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Full text of "National defense migration. Hearings before the Select Committee Investigating National Defense Migration, House of Representatives, Seventy-seventh Congress, first[-second] session, pursuant to H. Res. 113, a resolution to inquire further into the interstate migration of citizens, emphasizing the present and potential consequences of the migraion caused by the national defense program. pt. 11-[34]"

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lATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

SELECT COMMITTEE INVESTIGATING 

NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 

HOUSE OF EEPEESENTATIVES 

SEVENTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

PURSUANT TO 

H. Res. 113 

A RESOLUTION TO INQUIRE FURTHER INTO THE INTERSTATE 

MIGRATION OF CITIZENS, EMPHASIZING THE PRESENT 

AND POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES OF THE 

MIGRATION CAUSED BY THE NATIONAL 

DEFENSE PROGRAM 



PART 31 
LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

MARCH 6, 7, AND 12, 1942 



PROBLEMS OF EVACUATION OF ENEMY ALIENS AND 
OTHERS FROM PROHIBITED MILITARY ZONES 



Printed for the use of the Select Committee Investigating 
National Defense Migration 




NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

SELECT COMMITTEE INVESTIGATING 

NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGEATION 

HOUSE OF REPEESENTATIVES 

SEVENTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

PURSUANT TO 

H. Res. 113 

A RESOLUTION TO INQUIRE FURTHER INTO THE INTERSTATE 

MIGRATION OF CITIZENS, EMPHASIZING THE PRESENT 

AND POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES OP THE 

MIGRATION CAUSED BY THE NATIONAL 

DEFENSE PROGRAM 



PART 31 
LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

MARCH 6, 7, AND 12, 1942 



PROBLEMS OF EVACUATION OF ENEMY ALIENS AND 
OTHERS FROM PROHIBITED MILITARY ZONES 



Printed for the use of the Select Committee Investigating 
National Defense Migration 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
60396 WASHINGTON : 1942 



il. S. SUPERlffTENOENT Of DOCUMENTS 

JUL 13 1942 



SELECT COMMITTEE INVESTIGATING NATIONAL DEFENSE 

MIGRATION 

JOHN H. TOLAN, California, Chairman 

JOHN J. SPARKMAN, Alabama CARL T. CURTIS, Nebraska 

LAURENCE F. ARNOLD, Illinois GEORGE H. BENDER, Ohio 

Robert K. Lamb, Staff Director 



CONTENTS 



Pace 

List of witnesses vii 

List of authors ix 

Friday, March 6, 1942, morning session 11625 

Testimony of Dr. George Gleason 11623, 11625 

Statement by Dr. George Gleason 11623 

Testimony of Culbert L. Olson 11629 

Testimony of Fletcher Bowron 11642 

Friday, Marcli 6, 1942, afternoon session 11653 

Testimony of Laurence Hewes, Jr 11653, 11656 

Statement of Laurence I. Hewes, Jr 11653 

Testimony of Winifred Ryder 11661, 11664 

Statement by W»inifred Ryder 11661 

Testimony of Harold J. Ryan 11671, 11674 

Material submitted by Harold J. Ryan 11671 

Testimony of W. S. Rosecrans, Howard B. Miller, E. W. Biscailuz, 

and Gordon M. McDonough 11678 

Saturday, March 7, 1942, morning session 1 1697 

Testimony of Richard B. Hood 11697 

Material submitted by Richard B. Hood 11701 

Testimony of panel of members of United Citizens Federation 11703 

Statement by Sam Minami 11 722 

Testimony of Dr. Thomas Mann and Dr. Bruno Frank 11725 

Statement by Courtney Lacey 1 1732 

Testimony of Dr. Feliz Guggenheim 11 733 

Statement by Dr. Felix Guggenheim 11736 

Saturday, March 7, 1942, afternoon session 11739 

Testimony of Capt. W. N. Cunningham 11739 

Testimony of G. Raymond Booth and David E. Henley 11743, 11751 

Statement by G. Raymond Booth 11744 

Testimony of Attiho Boffa 11759, 11762 

Statement by the Mazzini Society iZcl 

Testimony of panel of members of Federation of Churches ^l'"!; 

Testimony of Rev. Lester Suzuki 11771, 11787 

Testimony of Tom Clark 1177^ 

Testimony of Courtney Lacey ii"-;a8 }}lny 

Testimony of Carey Mc Williams 11788, 11/9/ 

Statement of Carev McWilliams ]]Iq7 

Testimony of A. L. Wirin J^^^ 

Testimony of George Kelley ;;;7nn liom 

Testimony of George Knox Roth 11799, 118U1 

Material submitted by George Knox Roth 11«"U 

Testimony of William Sasagawa \\^]^f. 

Testimony of Hans F. Schwarzer |j»"'j 

Testimony of Ronald Lane Latimer j »y| 

Testimony of Earl C. Craig Jj^J^ 

Introduction of exhibits 2V^'^" A'if' 

Exhibit 1. The Japanese in California Agriculture; report by Lloyd H. 
Fisher, social science analyst, and Ralph L. Nielsen, junior agricul- 
tural economist. Bureau of Agricultural Economics, Lnited States 
Department of Agriculture, Berkeley, Calif., ^arch 16, 1942^. II8I0 

Exhibit 2. Statistics on Japanese Farmers for ^P^cified Counties 
reports by county commissioners, submitted by Prank M. Kranur, 
supervising inspector, California State Department of Agriculture. ^^^^^ 

Sacramento, Calif SW' jT,'„+,^^V r^m 

Exhibit 3. Report of the Agricultural Resources and Production Com- 

mittee, to the Los Angeles County Defense Council, Los Angeles, ^^^^^ 

Calif 

ni 



IV 



CONTENTS 



Introduction of exhibits— Continued. . x j xt. *i- -d x ^*^* 

Exhibit 4. The Trading With the Enemy Act and the Ahen Property 
Custodian; report by Bernard Shapiro, Boalt Hall, University of 

CaUfornia, Berlieley, Calif 11839 

Exhibit 5. Memorandum on Alien Property; report by Bartley C. 

Cruin, 2001 Russ Building, San Francisco, Calif 11840 

Exhibit 6. Suspension of the Writ of Habeas Corpus; report by H, 
Miles Raskoff, Boalt Hall, University of California, Berkeley, 

Calif ,—,---- 11^*^ 

Exhibit 7. Statement by C. Huntington Jacobs, president, the Mili- 
tary Law Association, Mills Tower, San Francisco, Calif 11848 

Exhibit 8. Governor's Proclamation — Martial Law for Territory of 
Hawaii; submitted by C. Huntington Jacobs, president, the Mili- 
tary Law Association, Mills Tower, San Francisco, Calif 11853 

Exhibit 9. Mihtary Commission Named for Territory of Hawaii; sub- 
mitted by C. Huntington Jacobs, president, the Military Law 

Association, Mills Tower, San Francisco, Calif 11854 

Exhibit 10. Policy Governing Trials of Civilians in Territory of 
Hawaii; submitted by C. Huntington Jacobs, president, the Mili- 
tary Law Association, Mills Tower, San Francisco, Calif 11854 

Exhibit 11. Statement by the Military Law Association; submitted 
by C. Huntington Jacobs, president. Mills Tower, San Francisco, 

Calif 11855 

Exhibit 12. Tentative Plan for the Organization of Military Tribunals 
in the affected area or areas on the Pacific Coast in the Event of 
a Declaration of Martial Law; prepared by C. Huntington Jacobs, 
president, the Military Law Association, Mills Tower, San Francisco, 

Calif 11857 

Exhibit 13. The Position of Aliens in Great Britain During the War; 
report by British Library of Information, 30 Rockefeller Plaza, 

New York City, N. Y 11861 

Exhibit 14. Statement by Paul Shoup, president. Merchants & Man- 
ufacturers Association, 725 South Spring Street, Los Angeles, Calif. _ 11866 
Exhibit 15, Statement of Policy and Program for Evacuation From 
Military Areas in Pacific Coast States; report by Helen Hackett, 
acting executive secretary. Council of Social Agencies, Department 
of the Community Welfare Federation, 1151 South Broadway, Los 

Angeles, Calif 11870 

Exhibit 16. Resolution Adopted by the Board of Directors of the 

Pacific League, Inc., 112 West Ninth Street, Los Angeles, Calif 11871 

Exhibit 17. Evacuation of Enemy Aliens and Descendants of Such 
Aliens; report by Mr. A. C. Price, chairman, Los Angeles County 
Chapter, American Association of Social Workers, 206 South Spring 

Street, Los Angeles, Calif 11872 

Exhibit 18. Resolution; submitted by Rev. John M. Yamazaki, Los 

Angeles, Calif 11872 

Exhibit 19. Tabulation for Evacuation on Community Group Basis; 
submitted by the Catholic Foreign Mission Society of America, 

Maryknoll Mission, Los Angeles, Calif 11873 

Exhibit 20. Statement by Shuji Fujii, Isamu Noguchi, George 
Watanabe, Post Office Box 2845, Terminal Annex, Los Angeles, 

Calif 11877 

Exhibit 21. Statement by Hokubei Okinawa Kiyokai, 519 South 

Maple Avenue, Los Angeles, Calif 11878 

Exhibit 22. Statement by Lion Feuchtwanger, 1744 Mandeville 

Canyon Road, West Los Angeles, Calif 11879 

Exhibit 23. Statement by George Simmel, 2231 West Fifteenth 

Street, Los Angeles, Calif 11880 

Exhibit 24. Statement by Adolph Loewi, Ex-German, Formerly 
Consul of the German Democratic Weimar Government in Venice, 

Italy, 1331 Miller Drive, Los Angeles, Calif 11881 

Thursday, March 12, 1942, morning session 11883 

Testimony of Enrichetta Emma Fioretti 11883 

Testimony of WoU"gang Felix George Hallgarten 11884, 11886 

Statement by Wolfgang Felix George Hallgarten 11885 

Testimony of Paul Armstrong 11887 

Testimony of Walter Castagnetto 11904, 11906 



CONTENTS V 

Thursday, March 12, 1942, morning session — Continued. Page 

Statement by Walter Castagnetto H 905 

Testimony of G. E. Wade I_III 11 907 

Testimony of J. Joseph Kingston I. Ill 1 1908 

Testimony of Anne Mabel Godfrey I.III 11909 

Introduction of exhibits 11918 

Exhibit I. Letter and Tabulation on Alien Enemy Natura'hzation 
Petitions; submitted by Paul Armstrong, assistant district director, 
Immigration and Naturalization Service, United States Department 

of Justice, San Francisco, Calif 11919 

Exhibit 2. I'elegrams Requesting Data on Ahen-Enemy Petitions and 

Replies 11 920 

Exhibit 3. Martial Law; submitted by Robert J. Dell' Ergo, Boalt 

Hall, University of California, Berkeley, Calif 11924 

Exhibit 4. Liability of Stateless Persons for Military Service; report 

by Richard Grau, 1914 Vine Street, Berkeley, Calif ._. . 11927 

Index _._ 11931-11945 



LIST OF WITNESSES 

Los Angeles and San Francisco Hearings, March 6, 7, 12, 1942 

Page 

Arnistrone;, Paul, assistant district director Tmmigration and Naturalization 

Service, United States Department of Justice, San Francisco, Calif 11887 

Baker. Bishop .James C, bishop of Methodist Church, Los Angeles, Cahf.. 11764 

Biscailuz, E. W., chairman, Los Angeles County Defense Council, Los 

Angeles, Cahf 11678 

Boffa, Attilio, member of the Mazzini Society, 241 0>^ McCready Avenue, 

Los Angeles, Calif 11759, 11762 

Booth, G. Raymond, executive secretary, American Friends Service 

Committee, Pacific coast brancli, Pasadena, Calif 11743, 11751 

Bowron, Hon. Fletcher, mayor of the citv of Los Angeles, Los Angeles, 

Calif 11640 

Castagnetto, Walter, deputy clerk in charge of naturalization, city and 

county of San Francisco, San Francisco, Calif 11904, 11906 

Clark, Tom, chief of the civilian staff of Gen. John L. DeWitt, United 

States Army. Federal Building, Los Angeles, Calif 11773 

Craig, Earl C, rei)resenting the John Dewey Forum, 214 South Hill Street, 

Los Angeles, Calif 11811 

Cunnipgham, Capt. W. N., Industrial Department, United States Em- 
ployment Service, Los .\ngeles, Calif 11739 

Farnham, Dr. F. W., executive secretary, Church Federation of Los 

Angeles, Los Angeles, Calif 11764 

Fioretti, Mrs. Enrichetta Emma, 1473 Francisco Street, San Francisco, 

Calif 11883 

Frank, Dr. Bruno, 513 North Camden Drive, Beverly Hills, Calif 11725 

Gleason, Dr. George, executive secretary. Committee for Church and 

Community Cooperation, Los Angeles. Calif 11623, 11625 

Codfrey, Mrs. Anne Mabel, principal clerk, Immigration and Naturaliza- 
tion Service, San Francisco, Calif 11909 

Guggenheim, Dr. Felix, 238 Tower Drive, Beverly Hills, Calif 11733 

Hallgarten, Wolfgang Felix George, 75 Buena Vista Avenue, San Fran- 
cisco, Calif 11884, 11886 

Heckleman, Dr. F. W., San Gabriel Valley, Calif 11764 

Henley, David E., member of executive committee, American Friends 

Service Committee, Whittier, Cahf 11743, 11751 

Hewes, Laurence I., Jr., regional director, Farm Security Administration, 
region IX, United States Department of Agriculture, 30 Van Ness 
Avenue, San Francisco, Calif 11653, 11656 

Hood, Richard W., special agent in charge, Los Angeles district, Federal 

Bureau of Investigation, Los Angeles, Calif — 11697 

Kelley, George, chairman of law-enforcement committee of United 

Churchmen of Pasadena, Pasadena, Calif 1 1799 

Kingston, J. Joseph, deputy county clerk, Alameda County, Oakland, 

Calif 11908 

Lacey, Courtney, James Oviatt Building, 617 South Olive Street, Los 

Angeles, Calif 11786 

Latimer, Roland Lane H 807 

Mann, Dr. Thomas, 1550 San Remo Drive, Pacific Palisades, Calif 11725 

McDonough, Gordon M., supervisor, county of Los Angeles, Los Angeles, 

Calif 11678 

McWilliams, Carev, chief of the division of immigration and housmg, 
California Department of Industrial Relations, State Building, Los 
Angeles, Calif 11788, 11797 

Miller, Howard B., manager, agricultural department, Los Angeles Cham- 
ber of Commerce, Los Angeles, Calif 11678 

Minami, Sam, member of United Citizens Federation, Los Angeles, Calif-- 11703 

Olson, Hon. Culbert L., Governor of the State of California, Sacramento, 

Calif ' 11629 

vn 



Vin LIST OF WITNESSES 

Page 
Rosecrans, W. S., agricultural coordinator, Los Angeles County Defense 

Council, Los Angeles, Calif 11678 

Roth, George Knox, executive secretary, Public Affairs Committee of Los 

Angeles, Los Angeles, Calif 11799, 11801 

Rvan, Harold J., commissioner of agriculture of Los Angeles County, 524 

'North Spring Street, Los Angeles, Calif 11671, 11674 

Ryder, Winifred, director of social-assistance program, Social Security 

Board, Federal Security Administration, 785 Market Street, San Fran- 
cisco, Calif 11661, 11664 

Sasagavva, William, representative of the Christian Church, Federation of 

California. Los Angeles, Calif 11805 

Schwarzer, Hans F., Los Angeles, Calif 11806 

Shinoda, Joseph, member of United Citizens Federation, Los Angeles, 

Calif 1170? 

Slocum, Tokie, member of Veterans of Foreign Wars, member of Board 

of United Citizens Federation, Los Angeles, Calif 11703 

Suzuki, Rev. Lester, 1224 West Thirty-fifth Street, Los Angeles, 

Calif 11771, 11787 

Tanaka, Togo, editor of Los Angeles Japanese Daily News, Los Angeles, 

Calif 11703 

Tayama, Fred, chairman of Southern District Japanese- American Citizens 

League, Los Angeles, Calif 11703 

Wade, 0. E., clerk of Alameda County, Oakland, Calif 11907 

Wirin, A. L., member of southern California branch of the American Civil 

Liberties Union, Los Angeles, Calif 11797 



LIST OF AUTHORS 

OF Prepared Statements and Exhibits 

Faee 
Agricultural Resources and Production Committee, Los Angeles County 

Defense Council, Los Angeles, Calif 11837 

Armstrong, Paul, assistant district director, Immigration and Naturaliza- 
tion Service, United States Department of Justice, San Francisco, Calif. 11919 
Boflfa, Attilio, representative of the Mazzini Society, 24101.^ McCready 

Avenue, Los Angeles, Calif 11761 

Booth, G. Raymond, executive secretary, American Friends Service Com- 

) mittee, Pacific Coast branch, Pasadena, Calif 11744 

British Library of Information, 30 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, N. Y.__ 11861 
Castagnetto, Walter, deputy clerk in charge of naturalization, city and 

county of San Francisco, Calif 11904 

Catholic Foreign Mission Society of America, MaryknoU Mission, Los 

Angeles, Calif 11873 

Crum, Hartley C, 2001 Russ Building, San Francisco, Calif 11840 

Dell'Ergo, Robert J., Boalt Hall of Law, University of California, Berkeley, 

Calif .: 11924 

Feuchtwanger, Lion, 1744 Mandeville Canyon Road, West Los Angeles, 

Calif......: ,- 11879 

Fisher, Lloyd H., social science analyst. Bureau of Agricultural Economics, 

United States Department of Agriculture, Berkeley, Calif 11815 

Fujii, Shuji, Post Office Box 2845, Terminal Annex, Los Angeles, Calif.. 11877 
Gleason, Dr. George, executive secretary, Committee for Church and 

Community Cooperation, Los Angeles, Calif 11623 

Grau, Richard, 1914 Vine Street, Berkeley, Calif 11927 

Guggenheim, Dr. Felix, member of the board of directors, Jewish Club of 

I 1933, Inc., Los Angeles, Calif --- 11736 

Hackett, Helen, acting executive secretary. Council of Social Agencies, 
Department of the Community Welfare "Federation, 1151 South Broad- 
way, Los Angeles, Calif : 11870 

Hallgarten, Wolfgang Felix George, 75 Buena Vista Avenue, San Fran- 
cisco, Calif 1 1885 

Hewes, Laurence D., Jr., regional director, Farm Security Administration, 

region IX, San Francisco, Calif 11653 

Hokubei Okinawa Kiyokai, 519 South Maple Avenue, Los Angeles, Calif- 11878 
Hoofl, Richard B., special agent in charge of the Los Angeles district of the 

Federal Bureau of Investigation, Los Angeles, Calif 11701 

Jacobs, C. Huntington, president, the Military Law Association, Mills 

Tower, San Francisco, Calif 11848-11861 

Kramer, Frank M., supervising inspector, California State Department of 

Agriculture, Sacramento, Calif 11833 

Lacey, Courtney, attorney, Los Angeles, Calif 11732 

Loewi, Adolph, former consul of the <}erman Democratic Weimar Gov- 
ernment in Venice, 1331 Miller Drive, Los Angeles, Calif. — -- 11881 

McWilliams, Carey, chief, division of immigration and housing, California 

Department of Industrial Relations, State Building, Los Angeles, Calif. 11788 
Minami, Sam, business manager, Junior Produce Club of Los Angeles, Los 

Angeles, Calif 11722 

Morris, Homer, member of American Friends Service Committee, 20 

South Twelfth Street, Philadelphia, Pa . 11746 

Nielsen, Ralph L., junior agricultural economist. Bureau of Agricultural 

Economics, United States Department of Agriculture, Berkeley, Calif.. 11815 
Noguchi, Isamu, post office box 2845, Terminal Annex, Los Angeles, Calif-- 1 1877 

Pacific League, Inc., 112 West Ninth Street, Los Angeles, Calif-.. 11871 

Pickett, Clarence E., executive secretary, American Friends Service Com- 
mittee, 20 South Twelfth Street, Philadelphia, Pa 11745, 11749 

IX 



X LIST OF AUTHORS 

Page 
Price, Mr. A. C, chairman, Los Angeles County Chapter American Asso- 
ciation of Social Workers, 206 South Spring Street, Los Angeles, Calif __ IIS?^ 
Raskoflf, H. Miles, Boalt Hall, University of California, Berkeley, Calif-. _ 11846 
Roth, George Knox, executive secretary, Public Affairs Committee of Los 

Angeles, Los Angeles, Calif 11800 

Ryan, Harold J., commissioner of agriculture, Los Angeles County, 524 

North Spring Street, Los Angeles, Cahf ^ -_-- 11671 

Ryder, Winifred, director of social-assistance program, Social Security 

Board, Federal Security Agency, Los Angeles, Calif 11661 

Shapiro, Bernard, Boalt Hall, University of California, Berkeley, Calif 11839 

Shoup, Paul, president. Merchant & Manufacturers Association, 725 South 

Spring Street, Los Angeles, Calif 11 866 

Simmel, George, 2231 West Fifteenth Street, Los Angeles, Calif 11881 

Watanabe, George, post office box 2845, Terminal Annex, Los Angeles, Calif- 1 1 877 

Wood, Ivan A., agricultural inspector, county of San Diego, Calif 11835 

Yamazaki, Rev. John M., Los Angeles, Calif 11871 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



FRIDAY, MARCH 6, 1942 

morning session 

House of Representatives, 
Select Committee Investigating 

National Defense Migration, 

Washington, D. C. 

The committee met at 10 a. m., in the State Building, assembly 

room, Los Angeles, Calif., Hon. John H. Tolan (chairman), presiding. 

Present: Representatives John H. Tolan (chairman), of California; 

George H. Bender, of Ohio; Laurence F. Arnold, of Illinois; and Carl 

T. Curtis, of Nebraska. 

Also present: Dr. Robert K. Lamb, staff director; John W. Abbott, 
chief field investigator; Francis X. Riley, field investigator; Jack B. 
Burke, field investigator; and Ruth B. Abrams, field secretary. 
The Chairman. The committee will please come to order. 
Will you take the stand, Mr. Gleason? 

TESTIMONY OF DS. GEORGE GLEASON, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, 
COMMITTEE FOR CHURCH AND COMMUNITY COOPERATION 

The Chairman. Mr. Gleason, this committee does not come here 
with any prepared or prejudged ideas about this investigation, but 
we want to hear from the people of the Pacific coast. I understand 
that you want to make a statement. 

Dr. Gleason. Yes; I do. 

The Chairman. Wc have your prepared statement and will insert 
that in the record in full, but if there are any highlights you wish to 
touch upon or anything else you want to tell this committee, we should 
be glad to listen to you. 

(Statement referred to above is as follows:) 

STATEMENT BY DR. GEORGE GLEASON, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, 
COMMITTEE FOR CHURCH AND COMMUNITY COOPERATION 

The Enemy Alien Situation on the Pacific Coast 

(Prepared under the leadership of the Los Angeles County Committee for Church 
and Community Cooperation. This is a semiofficial committee of 11 clergy- 
men, appointed by the board of supervisors of Los Angeles County, in January 
1937, to coordinate churches, Government bodies, social agencies, and other 
community organizations in the moral and spiritual betterment of the county. 
Members of several subcommittees have cooperated in the preparation of this 
statement) 

March 3, 1942. 
Security and justice, both for enemy aliens and for the Nation should be the 

purpose of any action taken by Federal, State, county, or city authorities to control 

possible subversive elements in our communities. 

11623 



11624 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

At anv moment, Japanese military forces may attempt, at least, a token attack 
on the Pacific shores of the United States. In the three Pacific Coast States 
there are 275,094 enemy aliens, besides 71,484 American citizens of Japanese 
ancestry, many of them having dual citizenship. The number of American 
citizens of German and Itahan parentage is not available. In case of a Japanese 
attack, most Americans believe that some enemy aliens, and even some claiming 
citizenship, would attempt to aid the invaders. 

Whether the potential saboteurs form a small or large percentage of the enemy 
alien population and their children, seems to us not the main issue. The facts 
indicate that some residents on this coast are prepared to cooperate with an 
invading force. Reports of the activities of the Federal Bureau of Investigation 
and other law-enforcement agencies indicate that in many instances ahens have 
retained in their possession arms, ammunition, short-wave radios, cameras, and 
other contraband, weeks after they had been ordered to give them up. 

There seem to be a few authenticated instances where citizen-Japanese, while 
proclaiming their loyalty to the United States, have been carrying on disloyal 
activities. 

The report of the Committee on Un-American Activities, released on February 
28, 1942, says: "The facts make the Japanese residents of Cahfornia, Hawaii, 
the Philippine Islands and the Panama Canal region a menacing fifth column in 
the Territories of the United States." There seems to be abundant proof that 
among alien residents on the Pacific coast there are some who, if uncontrolled 
might at a time of crisis contribute directly to the success of an enemy attack. 
A very few, even, of such subversive individuals, if allowed to remain near war 
industry plants, harbors, sources of water, gas and electric supply, and other equip- 
ment essential to our Hving and defense, might create tremendous disasters. 
This is evident to all who know conditions in the Coast States, 

In the face of all these dangers, the calmness and good sense of the west coast 
communities should be recognized and commended by the whole Nation. Any 
evacuation proposed is not prompted by race hatred, prejudice or selfish business 
interests, but is contemplated only for military protection. 

The mass evacuation, however, of all of the 400,000 or 500,000 individual 
enemy aliens, and their children, from the Coast States, would admittedly bring 
suflFering upon them and huge burdens upon the remainder of the population. 
We recommend, therefore, a selective evacuation. As to the extent and the dist- 
ance of such evacuation, we have not in our possession adequate facts upon which 
to base specific recommendations. The details of this population movement 
must be decided by the Army, 

In order to end the uncertainty, both among the aliens and ourselves, we urge 
that the decision be made as soon as possible, and that all Federal agencies be 
eflFectively coordinated for this purpose. If we can aid in bringmg this about, we 
shall be glad to be taken into consultation. 

When the Army orders are given, however, every alien and every citizen should 
accept them without making anj' objection, and without further debate. Law 
enforcement authorities should be as just and courteous as Army orders permit. 
Every precaution should be taken to preserve the health, the property, and the 
social and cultural interests of those who are forced to move. Adequate material 
relief should be provided for those deprived of their economic resources. Hinder- 
ing red tape should be promptly cut. 

Church members, school authorities, social workers, women's clubs, service 
clubs, parent-teacher associations, and agricultural and business groups, in the 
areas from which and to which people are transferred, should be called upon to 
render every possible aid. Such communitj' organizations on the coast are urged 
to communicate with similar groups in neighboring States to the east, urging them 
to take a proper attitude toward those who are moved into their communities. 

Each individual moved, who is not in forced custod.y, should be helped to re- 
establish himself in suitable home, school, church, group, agricultural and indus- 
trial life, at the earhest possible moment. Conditions tending to develop 
delinquency in youth, and unsanitary surroundings and subversive attitudes 
among those evacuated, should be kept in mind b\' the authorities and avoided 
when po.ssible. We shall use our influence to see that this is done. 

Finally, we wish to record our opinion that the authorities — Federal, State, 
county, and city — have, in most instances, acted with fairness and consideration. 
In continuation of this policy, we urge the proper authorities to act promptly, 
firmly, justly, and courteously. We ask the enemy aliens and their children to 
act obediently and cheerfully. Those who claim American citizenship should be 
among the first to demonstrate to their new communities their sincerity and 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11625 

loyalty. They should realize that the action we suggest is as much a protection 
for them a? for the communities from which they are moved. 

Those related to the enemy countries by ties of blood should constantly re- 
member that whatever action is taken here is due to the tragic and often brutal 
activities of the leaders now in control of the countries with which we are at 
war. 

Rabbi ^lorton A. Bauman, Temple Israel of Hollywood; Dr. Arthur 
Braden, Minister, Wilshire Christian Church; A. R. Clifton, 
County Superintendent of Schools; Paul F. Devine, Assistant to 
the Superintendent, Los Angeles City Schools; Rev. Patrick 
Dignan, Superintendent of Catholic Schools, Archdiocese of L03 
Angeles; Dr. Frank Fagerburg, Minister, First Baptish Church, 
Los Angeles; Dr. E. C. Farnham, Secretary, Los Angeles Church 
Federation; John Anson Ford, Supervisor, Los Angeles County; 
Dr. Earle R. Hodrick. Vice President, University of California; 
Roger Jessup, Supervisor, Los Angeles County; ^iax A. Koffman, 
Businessman; Julian Lesser, Principal Productions; Dr. Willsie 
Martin, Minister, Wilshire Methodist Church; Rabbi Edgar F. 
Magnin, Wilshire Boulevard Temple; Dr. Glenn W. Moore, 
Presbytery of Los Angeles, Presbyterian Church; Mrs. W. A. 
Monten, "Ebell Public Relations Chairman; Rt. Rev. Msgr. 
Thomas J. O'Dwyer, General Director of Charities, Archdiocese 
of Los Angeles. Rev. Clarance H. Parlour, Minister, St. Mark's 
Episcopal Church, Glendale. Calif;. Mrs. Isaac Pelton, President, 
Council of Jewish Women; Paul Shoup, Chairman, Public Infor- 
mation Committee, Los Angeles County Defense Council; John 
L. Spicer, Property Management; Heman G. Stark, Director, 
Coordinating Councils; Mrs. Lawrence Sutherland, President, 
First Districe California Conference of Parents and Teachers; 
Mrs. Thomas E. Workman, Vice-Pres.. Region Seven. California 
Conference of Social Work; Dr. George Gleason, Executive Sec- 
retary, Committee for Church and Community Cooperation, 
139 No. Broadway, Los Angeles, Calif. 

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE GLEASON— Resumed 

The Chairman. In the first place, your name is George Gleason, 
executive secretary, committee for church and community coopera- 
tion? Is that right? 

Dr. Gleason. This committee is a semiofficial committee of the 
board of supervisors of Los Angeles County and it is made up of 11 
Jewish, Catholic, and Protestant clergymen. In a sense, it represents 
the Jewish, Catholic, and Protestant churches of Los Angeles County, 
so it is sort of a combination of the Government and the churches and 
the religious forces of this county. 

We have been working together for more than 5 years. Since last 
January a year ago we have been working to promote community 
unity during this national crisis. Our interest is in keeping the com- 
munity united and in developing the moral aspects of this problem. 

"We find that there are so many aliens and their children that the 
mass evacuation of all would create a very great problem. You know 
that very well, so I will not read that part of the paper. 

We have read the Dies report and we realize that there are sub- 
versive activities going on. We have mentioned that, and we recog- 
nize that we have to deal with that. 

What we wish to state is that in the face of all these dangers, the 
calmness and good sense of the west coast communities should be 
recognized and commended by the whole Nation. Any evacuation 
proposed, we believe, is not prompted in any large degree by race 



11626 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

hatredj'^prejudice, or selfish business interests, but is contemplated 
only for military protection. 

CLERGY RECOMMENDS SELECTIVE EVACUATION 

We therefore recommend a selective evacuation. We recommend 
that in a community, as soon as the Army orders are given, every 
alien and every citizen should accept these orders without making 
any objection and without further debate. 

Law enforcement authorities should be as just and courteous as 
Army orders permit. Every precaution should be taken — we think 
thatis a very important aspect — to preserve the health, the property, 
and we would like to add, the social and cultural interests of those 
who are forced to move. Adequate material relief should be provided 
for those deprived of their economic resources. 

May we say that we think we have seen some evidences of too 
much red tape in the giving out of economic relief. We therefore 
say, red tape, which is hindering the work, should be promptly cut. 

We would like to ofi'er our services to you and other Government 
bodies in the following way: Church members, school authorities, 
social workers, women's clubs, service clubs, parent-teachers associa- 
tions, and agricultural and business groups in the areas from which 
and to which people are transferred should be called upon to render 
every possible aid, and we are at your service to try to see that this 
is done. 

Such community organizations on the coast are urged to com- 
municate with similar groups in neighboring States to the east where 
these people are moved, urging them to take a proper attitude toward 
those who are m.oved into their communities. Each individual 
should be helped to reestablish himself in suitable homes, schools, 
churches, groups, agricultural and industrial life at the earliest 
possible moment. W'e shall use our influence to see that this is done. 

Finally, we wish to record our opinion that the authorities. Federal, 
State, county, and city, have in most instances acted with fairness 
and consideration; we hope that this policy will be continued. 

There is one other sentence in the statement which I would like to 
read. "Those related to the enemy countries by ties of blood should 
constantly remember that whatever action is taken here is due to 
the tragic and often brutal activities of the leaders now in control of 
the countries with which we are at war." 

The Chairman. Dr. Gleason, the thought of your society is simply 
this: You are against mass evacuation? 

Dr. Gleason. Yes. We hope it will be selective. 

The Chairman. I just want to get your thoughts. Does that 
include the Japanese too; no mass evacuation against the Japanese? 

Dr. Gleason. We should leave to the War Department the decision 
of who; we do not have any recommendation. They have informa- 
tion which a group like ourselves does not have. What we mean is 
that we don't think that everybody — four or five hundred thousand 
people who are cncmv aliens and their children — should be evacuated 
from the Pacific Coast States, but wherever the War Department 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11627 

finds any'group that they feel is dangerous to the security of the United 
States, we will back the War Department in such evacuation. 

The Chairman. Well, Dr. Gleason, I know what you are thinking 
about. Your society is thinking in terms of the civilian morale, that 
we are a Nation of aliens. You are also not thinking of what is hap- 
pening now but what will happen after this war is over. Do you 
think any race in the history of the world has been 100 percent 
■disloyal? 

Dr. Gleason. No, sir. If you mean "Do I think the Japanese 
are 100 percent disloyal," not at all. I think the disloyal number is 
very insignificant but there are a few that are. I have mentioned 
that, but I didn't read it. 

WOULD REMOVE ALIENS FROM COMBAT AREAS 

The Chairman. Yes; let's go a little step further. Do you think it 
IS safe for this Government to have thousands of these aliens living 
close to combat areas? Do you think they should get out of these 
combat areas? 

Dr. Gleason. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. That is right. 

Dr. Gleason. Without any question. 

The Chairman. You see the great problem. Dr. Gleason, is simply 
this: that just one person could do a lot of damage. 

Dr. Gleason. That is what we have stated. That is so generally 
accepted, I believe, on the coast, that I didn't read that part of our 
statement. Perhaps I should have done so. 

The Chairman. Do you think your society would agree with me 
when I say that we should follow the Army? 

Dr. Gleason. Certainly. 

The Chairman. We have been up and down the Pacific coast and 
the thought keeps recurring to me that nobody quarreled with the 
Army in connection with where these combat areas should go. I 
think your society will agree with me when I say that when it comes 
to a question of evacuating hundreds of thousands of people, the whole 
people should have something to say about it and work with the 
Army? 

Dr. Gleason. Well, I think the Army is capable of deciding. I 
think they have shown the attitude that they will not attempt to 
evacuate more than they believe is absolutely essential for your safety 
and mine. 

The Chairman. That is right. 

Dr. Gleason. And I think my committee takes the attitude that 
we would like to leave to the Army the details of the numbers and the 
exact places from which people should be evacuated. 

Now, when the Army decides, we would like to cooperate with them 
in stimulating the churches and schools and social and business groups 
to be as just as possible to those people regarding their property and 
other matters, and in the communities to which they go, to help stimu- 
late churches and schools and other groups to give them a proper 
reception. 



11628 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

WHAT WHOLESALE EVACUATION WOULD MEAN 

Mr. Bender. Dr. Gleason, the plan you speak of, selective evacu- 
ation, means that you are not in favor of wholesale evacuation, is 
that correct? 

Dr. Gleason. If I have my figures correct, the wholesale evacuation 
from the Pacific Coast States would be of 270,000 aliens, with seventy 
thousand-odd American citizens of Japanese descent; and if we took 
the children of German and Italian aliens, it would run to a figure 
somewhere between four and five hundred thousand people. 

Mr. Bender. You say there are 270,000 Japanese aliens? 

Dr. Gleason. No, 270,000 Italian, German, and Japanese aliens 
on the Pacific coast. 

Mr. Bender. You feel that this job shouldn't be done wholesale 
that is, that it should be done gradually rather than immediately. 

Dr. Gleason. Well, I think we should get them out just as soon as 
possible from these danger zones where they might blow up aqueducts, 
or where a few bad persons among them might blow up aircraft plants. 
I certainly think the Army should evacuate them from those danger 
centers as rapidly as possible. I don't think that means evacuation 
of every alien, or every child of aliens in the Pacific Coast States. 

Mr. Bender. Who here would know how to handle that situation 
in cooperation with General DeWitt? 

Dr. Gleason. I can't answer that question. 

Mr. Bender. Do you have any advice or any suggestion as to what 
California interests might do in connection with making recommenda- 
tions as to how this should be handled? 

Dr. Gleason. Well, I think Mr. Tom C. Clark, as coordinator, has 
secured the cooperation of people like Mr. Ryan, the head of the agri- 
cultural department of Los Angeles County, and about a score of other 
similar Government officials. I think all those groups should be 
coordinated; I have great confidence in such leaders. 

Mr. Bender. Doctor, do you feel that Germans and Italians 
deserve different treatment than the Japanese aliens; or do you think 
that they are all of the same group and should be handled in the same 
way. 

JAPANESE DANGEROUS BECAUSE NEARER TO THEATER OF WAR 

Dr. Gleason. I think they are all the same group, but I think there 
is a dift'erence in the importance of dealing with the Japanese at this 
time, because we, on this coast, feel that our war is with Japan just 
now. You see, if the Japanese Navy should come over to this coast, 
the Japanese who are loyal to Japan and disloyal to the United States 
would, and could, do something which the Germans and the Italians 
might not be so interested in doing. So I think on account of our 
nearness to Japan, the subversive elements among the Japanese, 
are a little more dangerous to us immediately on this coast than the 
subversive elements among the Italians and the Germans. 

Mr. Bender. This committee has indicated a desire that there 
should be active cilivian cooperation with the military in accomplish- 
ing this evacuation. In connection with the civilian cooperation 
which General DeWitt has asked for, and which he expects to receive, 
do you believe that civilian cooperation should come from the areas 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11629 

affected, or should those from other parts of the United States come 
in here, as civilian agents, to assist in that evacuation, and in the 
orderly process thereof? 

Dr. Gleason. I think we need all the help we can get. 

Mr. Bender. But do you think that California civilians are better 
able to handle the problem than, for example, Ohio civilians? 

Dr. Gleason. Certainly; yes. 

The Chairman. That is all. Thank you very much. 

Our next witness is Governor Olson. 

TESTIMONY OF HON. CULBERT L. OLSON, GOVERNOR OF THE 
STATE OF CALIFORNIA, SACRAMENTO, CALIF. 

The Chairman. Governor Olson, we appreciate your coming here 
this moring. We know you are a very busy man. We have been to 
San Francisco and Portland and Seattle and have come back here. 
We were sent out here; we didn't come of our own volition. The 
reason for it was that you would be surprised if you knew the many 
people who were pouring into Washington with their troubles on 
account of this evacuation. So we came to the coast quietly, not to 
tell people what they should do, but to act as a sort of clearinghouse 
to get some of their ideas and some of their recommendations to bring 
back to Washington. 

We have no prejudged idea, Governor, but we have come just to 
help out a little bit. So that is why we sincerely appreciate your 
coming here this morning. 

Of course, some terrific problems are presented. I learned yester- 
day from our staff in San Francisco that there were 20,000 Italian and 
German aliens who have applied for their final papers. So, you see, 
it is quite a problem, but quietly and gentlemanly we thought we 
could come out here and help out a little bit because you people are 
the most directly involved; this the most vulnerable part of the 
United States. 

After you have made your statement we will ask you some questions. 
We will just talk it over between us this morning. That is the attitude 
we have. 

Governor Olson. Thank you. 

Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee, I want to assure 
you that you have a real welcome in coming here and ehciting infor- 
mation in connection with this alien and Japanese population prob- 
lem. I think it is splendid that your committee has constituted it- 
self, or has been constituted to make this investigation, and that you 
have come out here and are hearing and will hear all sides and opin- 
ions and constructive suggestions that may be offered in meeting the 
problems. 

I think it is tremendously important that the situation be clearly 
understood, not only by the entire population of California and the 
west coast here, but by Congress, by the people in the Eastern States, 
and by the governmental agencies of State and the Nation generally, 
because I feel that it is a problem in which the cooperation of all is 
very much needed. 

I have no prepared statement upon the subject. I might make 
one or two general observations and then I would be very happy to 

60396 — i2— pt. 31 2 



11630 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

have you ask me any questions you might see fit to ask. I regard 
it perfectly natural and proper that you should ask me to come be- 
fore your committee, and I consider it a duty to do so, and a pleasant 
duty to perform with you. 

I might state generally that it is a big problem we face here in 
California, and in the west coast States, in handling the alien-enemy 
situation, and the Japanese population because of its peculiar char- 
acter in the picture. Everyone realizes that it is fraught with much 
difficulty. There are lots of problems and a lot of things to be worked 
out in order to handle it intelligently and in fairness to everybody 
concerned, but I don't regard it as insurmountable or too difficult for 
us at all. I think if we can arrive at an understanding of the situa- 
tion, and get cooperation on the part of everybody, the people to be 
moved out of the military area, as well as everyone else, we can have 
it solved and have those removed who should be moved out of the 
military areas without any injustice to anyone. There will be in- 
convenience, yes. The people will be called upon to make sacrifices 
and there will be inconveniences, but not injustices. 

In all these matters, and particularly in this most important one, 
our State and Government agencies are working in close coopera- 
tion and harmony with the military. We meet and confer on the 
military necessities, and on programs which require the cooperation 
of the civil and military authorities. We are progressing nicely that 
way. 

General DeWitt is sensing his great responsibility here very keenly 
and is working very hard. We find him very reasonable to work 
with in handling situations involving the civilian population, and the 
taking over of properties required by the military, and all of those 
things. 

With regard to this alien and Japanese population movement, we 
have conferred with General DeWitt, and w^th the Department of 
Justice representative, our State director of agriculture, and a 
representative of the Department of Agriculture of the Federal 
Government, considering every phase of the military necessity and 
the effect upon those to be moved and upon our agricultural economy. 
We have also considered public psychology, the temper of the people 
with reference particularly to not only the alien enemies who may be 
under suspicion of disloyalty, but the Japanese as a whole. 

WOULD SELECT ALIENS WHO NEED NOT BE EVACUATED 

In those preliminary conferences, we generally came to the con- 
clusion that so far as enemy aliens are concerned, some could be 
selected who need not be evacuated. I am thinking now of those 
refugees from Continental Europe who escaped the slavery of Hitler's 
domination and have gotten into this country. Some of them are 
scientists, some are teachers in some of our educational institutions. 
Some of them are very constructively aiding in defense and the war 
effort. 

I speak of individuals among those classified as enemy aliens who 
should be selected to stay, rather than selected to go; in other words, 
select those who are approved to remain and go on with what they are 
doing, because their record shows that it is not only entirely unnecessary 
and it would be an injustice, but it would be a loss to us to have them 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11631 

go. We do feel that there are loyal Japanese. I think as high as 
5,000 of them are serving in the armed forces of the United States now. 

I don't think there is any question but what a large part of the popu- 
lation of the Japanese people in California are so completely divorced 
from any natural feeling of loyalty or sympathy to the militarists of 
Japan, and its brutal aggressive methods, as to be wholly horrified at 
the way their racial nation has gone. 

The first and second generations have been educated in our schools. 
Some Japanese families never speak Japanese in their homes and speak 
only English. So I think in fairness to them, their loyalty and their 
desire to prove their loyalty in this situation, which naturally creates 
prejudices and hysteria against all of the Japanese, should be recog- 
nized by public statements. But, of course, we would be naive indeed 
if we did not recognize that there is also a large part — we don't know 
how large, nobody can say, but we get it from our Japanese-American 
citizens themselves — there is a considerable part of the Japanese popu- 
lation who are distinctly in sympathy with Japan and do constitute an 
element that would engage in military assistance, or any other kind of 
assistance in fifth column opportunities, if the opportunity were given 
to aid Japan in the present war with us. 

The loyal Japanese people realize also that the average Caucasian 
can't distinguish between the Japanese. They all look alike. It 
places them in a most unfortunate disadvantage. I have found a 
willingness with such loyal Japanese citizens to abide by and volun- 
tarily follow any program of evacuation of all Japanese that may be 
determined upon. 

R'::'cently, following a conference with General DeWitt on the 
subject, and Air. Clark, of the Department of Justice, I called into 
the Governor's office representatives of the Japanese-American popu- 
la ion, professional men, businessmen, farmers, and publishers, and 
talked the situation over %\'ith them just as we are talking of it now. 
And I think practically all of those representatives were in good faith 
when tliey said whatever program is decided upon with regard to the 
removal of the enthe Japanese population from any area in California, 
or from the State, they would follow. In fact, they were willing. 

JAPANESE LEADERS WILL HELP IN EVACUATION 

I asked them if they wouldn't be willing to take a leadership in it, 
to show it was participated in by the Japanese-American citizens 
themselves, for their own protection as well as proof of their loyalty 
to a program which would be very helpful in the enthe war and 
defense situation. 

They all stated that they would be willing to do it; to propagandize 
it; to take the leadership in it; and participate in programs for re- 
moval, and many submitted various programs, by way of suggestion, 
of voluntary evacuation for all of the adult Japanese population in 
the military areas. 

Since that time the President has issued his proclamation, under 
which the military has the power to remove any of them from the 
military areas that are designated, and which is deemed to be required 
by military necessity. Under that proclamation, the military has 
now defined the A and B military zones from which progressive 



11632 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARLNGS 

evacuation is to be required of alien enemies and the Japanese popu- 
lation. 

We had thought in the beginning that the problem of where we 
would put these evacuated Japanese people in the State, so as to 
utilize their manpower in productive effort during the war, and their 
contribution to our agricultural production for a victory program^ 
would be entirely a State one. 

So our State Department of Agriculture, at my request, made a 
survey of areas in the interior of California with respect to which we 
might plan the removal gradually of the Japanese workers particularly 
those engaged in agricultural production. We find, however, that no 
one wants the evacuees moved into his county or his State. There 
has been opposition manifested on the part of the interior counties to 
the bringing of a large number of Japanese in to be employed there, or 
placed there under this program. 

We had thought if it was entirely a California program for us to 
work out with the military, we would try and distribute them in 
the interior of the State, at work, and at the same time keep them 
under such reasonable surveillance as to avoid any possible outbreak 
on their part in any situation, even if war occurs witliin our State. 

With the President's proclamation and with the program set by 
the mihtary, it seems that the purpose is to evacuate all of the Japanese 
population, adults at least, and the alien enemies of the other races 
out of the State entirely, or to the extreme eastern borders of the 
State. Temporary places of evacuation in the course of moving and 
placing the evacuees will be in the eastern portion of this State, 
and then the effort will be made to place them in various parts of the 
United States, or the Western States and Central Stj'tcs, where they 
can be employed in useful productive work. Well, it seems to me,, 
if that were done, everyone would feel much safer about the alien 
and the Japanese population, but there again it will be found that 
there will be opposition from most States or places to having any 
Japanese brought in there, even for the duration of the war, to work. 
But that I feel is a rather selfish, attitude and an uncooperative 
attitude on the part of either a county of our State, or of a State 
to which it might be proper and very feasible to transfer a large- 
number of these people. 

HOPES STATES OF RELOCATION WILL COOPERATE 

That is where I think Congress comes in, and your committee par- 
ticularly, and I am hoping that it will be your recommendation that 
States, which have the areas and the kind of work these people can 
do, and to which it is feasible to transfer large numbers of them, co- 
operate so as to help the movement of these evacuees in a way to 
maintain, as near as possible, their normal lives; to have them made 
self-sustaining and avoid any injustices and the consequences of 
prejudices against them. 

I think the problem that we have in this matter should be met in 
the same spirit we are meeting all of the common problems that this 
serious emergency presents. It requires a spirit of cooperation on the 
part of State and local governments, the Federal Government in each 
of the States, and the people generally, instead of a selfish "I won't do- 
this," or "I won't conform to that" attitude. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11633 

Now, I will say with regard to the Japanese people, as I have said 
"before, I want to compliment them in this State. They have shown 
an attitude of willingness to cooperate and voluntarily evacuate them- 
selves; even those in business and professions are ready to go onto the 
farms and work for the duration with the rest o£ the Japanese and 
American Japanese at that. 

This may not be true as to all of them. Theu- property rights can 
be protected, and "chiselers" who rush in and try to take advantage 
of their evacuation in seeking to eiu-ich themselves from their lands 
instead of being properly compensated I think, can be circumvented. 

It all involves the right spirit of cooperation on the part of every- 
body concerned to insure the promotion of this area against any 
development of sabotage or fifth-column activities, and with full and 
complete justice to those against whom prejudice is aroused on ac- 
count of race. 

I think it is a helpful thing that we do have the Japanese citizens 
in the State who have so recognized that situation and realized that 
because of that prejudice they should cooperate voluntarily in evac- 
uating themselves in accordance with any plan suggested. 

So I say to you gentlemen of the committee, with the direction of 
the military and of the President's proclamation, the governmet t of 
the State of California (and I am sure the local governments and the 
people) will conform. We only ask cooperation from the rest of the 
States in the same spirit. We are here in the front line of defense 
fighting the Japanese. If our war with Japan — we have been attacked 
on land and on sea on this coast — is to be fought on any American 
soil, we feel it is going to be fought right here, and that the rest of 
the country should absorb Japanese people who should be evacuated 
from this theater of the war of the Pacific. Certainly it is their duty 
to do it. That is the attitude of the Governor of this State and the 
attitude of the governors of any of the States any«^here. That is 
generally the way I feel about the situation, gentlemen. I will be 
glad to answer any questions you have to ask of me. 

Mr. Arnold. Governor, you have made a very fine statement to 
the committee, outlining fully your views. I was interested to hear 
you sav at the outset that you thought perhaps this would be a job 
for California and that you apparently feel the great State of California 
could do it if they had to. 

Governor Olson. Well, we never feel there is anything too big for 
us, Mr. Arnold. 

Mr. Arnold. I am sure you do great things out here, but, of course, 
with as big a problem as it is, I can realize the relief that is yours to 
have the Army and coordinators and other agencieis of the Federal 
Government take the matter over and ask for cooperation of the other 
States, especially those west of the Mississippi River, m helping you 
handle this problem. 

DISTINCTION BETWEEN ALIENS 

Now, from your statement, you make a distinction between the 
Italian and the German aliens on the one hand, and the Japanese, 
whether citizen or alien, on the other hand. Could you tell the com- 
mittee your ideas on what special treatment could be acccorded to the 



11634 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

loyal Italian or German to restore him to good standing in the com- 
munity. 

Governor Olson. Well, I think the distinction is this: First, let 
me say, the distinction between the Japanese and the Italian and Ger- 
man is the difficulty of telling who is who among the Japanese. I 
think they realize that. I don't believe that difficulty exists among 
the Germans and Italians. In other words, I believe the F. B. I. 
would have more difficulty ascertaining who was a saboteur or fifth 
columnist among the Japanese population than they would among the 
Italian or the German. I, therefore, think that the very nature of 
things and the racial aspects there are such as present that distinction 
in the handling of these three nationalities. 

Now, with regard to those classified as alien enemies because they 
are not citizens of the United States, Germans and Italians, I stated 
in the beginning that I know there are individuals among them who 
would fight and die for us against Japan or Hitler or the Axis Powers. 
They are the refugees from the aggressions of those powers and they 
are anxious to serve in any capacity. It would be a rather foolish 
thing to send them out to concentration camps as alien enemies. In 
other words, I take the position that they can be selected from the 
alien enemies of the German and Italian class and permitted to remain 
in their present occupations in many places where they are doing a 
splendid service in the field of science and medicine and the like. 

It is undoubtedly true that among so many of the Italians and 
Germans, there is also a strong loyalty to this country on their part, 
even though they haven't yet become citizens of the United States 
and hadn't heretofore declared their intention. 

SEGREGATION OF SUBVERSIVE ELEMENT 

As I say, I tlihik espionage services and the F. B. I. can pretty much 
tell whether there are disloyalties among those groups. I would say, 
though, in this process of evacuation, that the groups as a whole 
should be evacuated and then selections from them permitted to re- 
turn. In other words, it is a difficult thing to just start selecting those 
who are to go, I believe. It may be possible. I would yield largely to 
the judgment of the Department of Justice and the F. B. I. and the 
military with respect to that. It presents a problem. We know 
that there are a great many whom we shouldn't treat as alien enemies, 
although so classified, because of their lack of citizenship. But I am 
sure if they know they are to be sort of reexamined and passed upon as 
to whether they can remain in the military areas, they will cooperate 
as well as others. Those that are loyal certainly would. They should 
appreciate the situation and be glad to do so. 

We don't want to take any chances. We want to make certain that 
those who may have some fifth columnist ideas are segregated, and if, 
in the process of segregating, there is some inconvenience to those who 
are loyal, I think those inconveniences should be suffered until they 
are straightened out. 

I wonder if that answers what you had in mind, Mr. Arnold? 

Mr. Arnold. Yes, Governor; pretty well. You believe, then, that 
if it is possible to determine and sort out the German and Italian 
aliens before sending them away from the coastal areas, that should 
be done, and if it is not possible, then have perhaps some sort of a 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11635 

commission under the military to pass on cases as rapidly as possible 
and permit them to return to their homes. 

Governor Olson. Yes, I say that. I think that is a sound way 
to treat it, and I would say that would be true of the Japanese if it 
were not for the protection of the Japanese themselves. But the 
trouble about that is, as I say, too many people will conclude that 
every Japanese is a fifth columnist, no matter what may be in his 
heart, so I think because of the innate condition and physical appear- 
ance in all of the Japanese, you can't apply that. 

Mr. Arnold. Hatred toward the Japanese might become pretty 
acute? 

Governor Olson. I say if the conflict was brought here to these 
shores, I would feel sorry for any Japanese loyalist inside because I 
am just afraid that he would suffer even if he were innocent. 

Mr. Arnold. The chairman of our committee, on February 28 
sent this telegram to the President: 

My understanding that evacuation order is imminent. Think it imperative 
that appointment of an alien property custodian and also coordinator for enemy 
alien problems precede or at least coincide with announcement of order. Unneces- 
sary to indicate to you that coordinator should be experienced administrator, 
trained at handling community and family relationship problems, including 
safety, health, and welfare. Coordinator should include reemployment and re- 
habifitation problems. Urge also that coordinator's office start- at once makmg 
plans to creating boards similar to present enemy alien hearing board of com- 
parable local machinery for examining loyalty of Italian and German aliens and 
certification of statements. Coordinator should keep local officials informed of 
developments and keep them inform.ed as far as possible. 

John H. Tolan, 
Chairman, House Committee of the 

National Defense Migration. 

That was sent on February 28. I want to say here, that as a re- 
sult of our investigations during the past 2 weeks along the coast, a 
number of findings we have made have been adopted by the Federal 
Government, and by General DeWitt. Our desire out here is to 
soften this evacuation as much as possible and make the hardships 
as small as can be humanly done. 

Now, are you in favor of special treatment of aliens who have close 
relatives in the armed services? I mean by that, alien Germans and 
Italians? 

Governor Olson. Well, I think that could be a circumstance that 
would bear upon an investigation of the individual as to whether he 
can really be safely permitted to come back or remain in the military 
area. . 

Mr. Arnold. Do you think that special consideration should be 
given to aliens whose applications for final papers have been filed but 
not acted upon due to delays beyond their control? 

Governor Olson. I think that would be another circumstance. Of 
course, if we have any Nazis and Fascists intent upon assisting the 
Axis Powers whenever opportunity might afford here in California, or 
any place in the United States, they will naturally do anything. K 
they are spies and not propagandists, they naturally intend to avoid 
detection and perhaps make some manifestations to deceive with re- 
gard to their real purpose. Of course, that is an observation that I 
think anyone would make in considering any individual case as to 
whether "he should be permitted in a military zone or not. I think 



11636 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

there are many who have recently filed papers for citizenship who just 
neglected to do it before, and gone on with a perfectly loyal purpose 
in being here and in having the benefits of free institutions and liberties; 
they have just gone on and neglected to file for citizenship papers. 

20,000 ALIENS UNDERGOING NATURALIZATION 

The Chairman. Governor, if I may interrupt there. They haven't 
all neglected. We have checked up the records of the Pacific coast. 
There are 20,000 German and Italian aliens who are waiting for hear- 
ings on their papers. San Francisco is a year and a half behind. 
That is one of the real problems, Governor, and if we can just get out 
of this investigation, hearings for those people, that would save a 
great deal of confusion. 

Governor Olson. There will have to be full and complete hearings 
if you are going to make selections there. I don't think there is any 
doubt about it and I think such hearings ought to be 99 percent 
accurate in their final conclusions. It seems to me their records can 
be analyzed and evidence adduced that is material to their lives which 
would disclose clearly to any Board whether they should or shouldn't 
be excluded. 

The Chairman. Governor, Dr. Lamb has just called my attention 
to the fact that they have all been investigated by the F. B. I. 

Governor Olson. That is probably true. 

The Chairman. I have a neighbor living next to me in Oakland 
whom I have known for 25 years, an Italian. He had his first papers; 
he had a hearing on his second papers, and everything was one hundred 
percent, but before the Judge could sign the papers, the proclamation 
of the President came out, so you see the situation. You think some- 
thing could be done along those lines? 

Governor Olson. Yes. Now, we have all relied, Mr. Tolan, so 
much upon the work of the F. B. I. We have programmed with 
regard to this matter of alien enemies, sabotage, and all, with the 
directions generally from the Federal agencies, to turn over to the 
F. B. I. all suspicious circumstance reports, all charges on informa- 
tion, instead of our local State or local police authorities undertaking 
to handle those things, which is proper. If the F. B. I. is adequately 
staffed it seems to me that we can rely upon them to ferret out the 
nests of any fifth-columnist activities secretly at work. 

I know that speaking of Germans and Italians — and this was 
unknown to me before this war — there were Italian-language schools 
conducted after the regular public school hours. 

The Chairman. Italian, you say? 

ITALIAN LANGUAGE SCHOOLS 

Governor Olson. Italian; and especially in San Francisco. They 
taught the Italian language interwoven into which teaching was the 
Fascist philosophy and respect for the Fascist rule. I got that 
information from our Department of Education. There are also 
Japanese language schools. There is no doubt that through the con- 
sulates of the Japanese there have been fifth-column activities insist- 
ing that the entire Japanese population really belonged to Japan. I 
didn't want to go back again to the Japanese but the school situation 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11637 

reminded me that in November last year I was invited by the Jap- 
anese Citizens League to address its annual dinner at Long Beach 
and I thought I should go to that and talk to them, as I did, predicting 
that we would probably be at war with Japan and they are going to 
be on the spot, and then condemning Japan from the time of its 
aggression in China and deploring the fact that we hadn't prohibited 
or placed an embargo on all materials of war to Japan, including oil, 
years ago. 

Well, at that meeting, the Japanese consul sat at the head table 
and someone was toastmaster who was a Japanese Nisei, and when 
Japan and its aggressive, warlike militarists were condemned, I noticed 
a clear division in the audience in the reaction. Some seemed to 
just take it, at least outwardly, very enthusiastically; others mumbled 
disapproval. The chairman, on that occasion, I think, is now held 
in a concentration camp by the F. B. I. 

That gave me somewhat of a picture of a division there. I think 
the schools have been conducted through the aid and abetment of the 
Japanese consulates. Now, I think that is true also to some extent 
of the other nationals where they have conducted schools. 

I feel this: that when you approach the question of who may be in 
sympathy with the Axis Powers from the Italian element, I would 
start with those who are conducting those language schools in the 
United States because I don't think there should be any foreign- 
language schools in the United States when they are taught in the 
public schools. That is something that we won't have in California 
any more, I will assure you that. 

Mr. Bender. Are you familiar with the number of Japanese 
students in your State university here who have taken up German? 
Representations were made to us that an overwhelming majority of 
the Japanese students in your State university study the German 
language. Is that a correct statement? 

Governor Olson. That is the first I have heard of it, sir. I really 
don't know. 

REVIEW CASES 

Mr. Arnold. Governor, I was speaking a while ago of special 
boards to review cases after the evacuation, and permit those who are 
loyal to come back. Have you given it any thought, and if so, would 
you make any suggestions regarding the composition of such boards? 
Should local representation have its part? 

Governor Olson. Well, I think the main thing would be to get the 
competently constituted authorities. Naturally, I think if they were 
selected locally they would better understand the situation and be 
able to analyze the cases more competently. 

But on the question of the procedure and processes of evacuation, 
the treatment and selection of those who shouldn't be permitted to 
remain at all ; I feel that in so far as it is possible where new agencies 
are not constituted and are not needed, that the agencies of the 
Federal and State Governments can do much and are constituted to 
do much in working out those processes and the treatment of the 
evacuees. I rather think the Federal Security Administration, the 
State department of social welfare, the county department of social 
welfare — I am now speaking of the manner and treatment of handling 



11638 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

and programing to avoid hardships — should assist in it and have 
the responsibihty, or a large part of the responsibility in the process. 

I agree with you that carefully selected boards to pass upon those 
who should or should not be permitted to remain in the military areas, 
is a sound and a proper approach to that difficult task. 

STATE WILL ASSIST IN PREVENTING SACRIFICE OF PROPERTY 

Mr. Arnold. Has there come to your attention much property of 
Japanese aliens or citizens selling at distressed prices? 

Governor Olson. Yes; I have heard rumors of that, but I haven't 
heard any evidence of it. It is hard to believe some of the stories you 
hear about them selling at distressed prices. They don't need to sell. 
They don't need to sell at all. Their property can be protected and 
their property will be protected. The only distress under which they 
would sell would be the need of cash to move on and I think they can 
be assisted in all such matters. 

I would say, for instance, the real estate department of the State 
of California and our agricultural department can assist in preventing 
injustice in the way of their sacrificing their property interests and 
their belongings. 

Mr. Arnold. They would be very willing to do that? 

Governor Olson. Absolutely. 

Mr. Arnold. Can you tell the committee what have been the rela- 
tions between your office and the coordinator, Mr. Clark? 

Governor Olson. Yes. We have had one or two conferences and 
those relationships are very harmonious. When I met with Mr. Clark 
and John DeWitt in the Governor's office in Sacramento some time 
ago, with the idea of accomplishing voluntary evacuation on the part 
of the Japanese population and finding means to transfer them from 
the combat zone or other military areas, later to be designated, 
we were all in agreement, and I am agreeable to the plan so far pro- 
nounced by the military, with the approval of the Department of 
Justice. 

Mr. Arnold. I would like to ask you about farming operations 
being carried on. Just m brief, do you think the land will all be 
farmed that will be evacuated by the Japanese? 

Governor Olson. I was talking to our director of agriculture about 
that, and he thinks it can be. There will be intermis of a lack of 
planting, but adjustments will be made to work the best lands. 

loss of "souat" labor 

On that subject it is unfortunate that this program will eliminate 
the possibility of having the benefit in agricultural production of the 
labor of the Japanese during this war period. We are going to have 
some labor problems, I believe, in agriculture. There is a certain 
class of agricultural work that the Japanese are peculiarly fitted to do. 
It is called "squat" labor. Squat labor is the picking of the vegetables 
produced on a large scale in a sitting posture. They have been doing 
a large part of it. It seems that the Japanese and the Filipino and 
the Mexican workers are more adaptable to do that. It is difficult 
to get other agricultural laborers to do that squat work. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11639 

I am told by some of our large lettuce growing proprietors in Salinas 
who were worrying about the fact that the Filipinos, heretofore doing 
a large part of the lettuce picking up there, had been taken into the 
Army, or were leaving to do more profitable work in the defense indus- 
tries. They are going to face an acute situation soon as to how they are 
going to pick their lettuce crop. Perhaps if the men who had been 
doing squat labor were paid enough, they would remain to do squat 
labor, but it is doubtful that there will be sufficient manpower in 
certain classes of agricultural work. 

Strangely enough, the situation has been reversed in California to 
what it was when we had a congestion of migratory laborers here 
and people from the Dust Bowl and all were unable to find em.ploy- 
ment and were on relief. Now, I think, we are going to need them 
all in the fields. I think, too, that the trouble is, all these things 
can't be accomplished at once. You speak of the land that these 
Japanese will leave. I think it is inevitable that we will get the land 
worked. It can be worked by tenants of those who own it and it 
needn't be sold. I think it can be worked profitably in the course of 
time. I think it is going to take some adjustment and some time, and 
perhaps some loss of crops in the meantime. 

Mr. Arnold. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Bender. Could I ask a question or two. Governor? I gathered 
from your testimony that you feel this is not California's war, that 
this is the United States' war, but I wanted to ask you if the State 
of CaUfornia is ready, in the event of this order being complete- 
that is, involving the entire Japanese population of your State — if 
you are prepared for any emergency that might develop, why would 
you need additional civilian aid from other parts of the country in 
addition to the military? 

Governor Olson. Well, all the civilian aid we would need from other 
parts of the country would be an attitude on the part of the other 
States cooperating as to receiving the people. I was glad to see the 
governor of Colorado say that he would cooperate. Now, if these 
people can be turned over in the beet fields of Colorado, can be self- 
sustaining and lead normal lives, and be at work, why that would take 
care of a part. So I think that should be the attitude of other States. 

I certainly would oppose, unless as a last resort and an absolute 
military necessity, a concentration and idleness of these people at 
public expense as prisoners of war. I think that would be an unneces- 
sary and unjust procedure and rather uneconomic. 

Mr. Bender. You are familiar with the manner in which Canada 
is handling this problem. They are confining it to males between the 
ages of 18 and 45. Do you think that is sufficient, or should it apply 
to the entire alien population? 

Governor Olson. Well, of course, it should apply to the adults. 
That would leave, of course, the children under 18 or 16 and the aged 
people. They probably would not want to be left by their relatives. 
They would possibly want to go with them and make their home Avith 
them. I think the family separation would be an impractical thmg. 
I think they would probably go along with them although theu- 
remaining wouldn't do any harm. 



11640 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

CALIFORNIA STATE GUARD 

Mr, Bender. Wlio is taking the place of the National Guard, or 
do you have a National Guard here? 

Governor Olson. We have a State guard succeeding the National 
Guard. We had taken pride in having the finest State guard in the 
United States, a real, competent State military of 25,000 men and 
1,500 officers. That was completed December last. It has been 
quite an issue. After the attack at Pearl Harbor we increased the 
guard to that status. I called a special session of the legislature to 
provide for its maintenance. We had organized it in accordance with 
authority of the statute passed when the National Guard was inducted 
into the Federal Army, and the law of the Congress was passed recog- 
nizing the organization of State guards and authorizing their equip- 
ment with arms and ammunition and other material by the Depart- 
ment of War. 

Our State guard was made up largely of ex-service men who had 
seen military service and were beyond the draft age for the most part, 
and ofiicered by men who had had comparable ranks in the Federal 
Army and had been retired. Unfortunately a bloc in the legislature 
would not appropriate any money for their maintenance without 
reorganization requirements weakening that force; elimination of 
many regiments; a limitation of the number of men that could be 
called out at one time to 7,000 when we will probably need 25,000 
before long, or upward of that for guard duty of essential facilities. 
We are, however, doing the best we can with the appropriation 
received with those requirements for a reorganized State guard, and 
we hope to remove those provisions in one way or another and still 
have a complete force to handle all our internal guard and police 
work within the borders of California. 

Mr. Bender. Governor Olson, let me ask you this question, 
"Do you have sufficient equipment for your State guard and your 
civilian officers and units, or do you require additional immediate 
Federal appropriations to aid in bringing about and equipping these 
officers and groups in connection with this evacuation, for example?" 

GOVERNMENT SHOULD FINANCE EVACUATION 

Governor Olson. In connection with this evacuation, I think that 
the expense incident should all be borne by an appropriation immedi- 
ately furnished by the Congress. 

Mr. Bender. By the Federal Government? 

Governor Olson. Oh, absolutely. We must look to the Federal 
Government for financing the evacuation work. Of course, all our 
existing agencies. State and local, will no doubt perform their services 
wherever called upon, at their own expense, but there are bound to 
be tremendous expenses in connection with this vast evacuation 
program, and it seems obvious that the Federal Government must 
meet that expense. 

The Chairman. In the President's Executive order he provided 
that the Federal Government would bear the expenses. 

Governor Olson. Oh, yes; I think so. Well, I just assmned that 
was accepted. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11641 

Mr. Bender. The point I am trying to get at is this: Of course, 
you know General DeWitt is in charge and has asked that his work be 
augmented by a civilian organization. Are there enough volunteers 
available, and do they require equipment, so that they can aid in the 
event their aid is required? Do they require equipment? Or are they 
properly equipped now? 

Governor Olson. Well, are you speaking now of any aid on the 
part of the State guard, or are you speaking of the aid on the part 
of local police authorities, or on the part of volunteers in the civilian 
defense effort with respect to that? 

Mr. Bender. I am speaking about the coordinated effort. Has 
there been sufficient coordination to date? Has there been sufficient 
planning to date? Has a program been mapped out; and is the 
equipment available, or is it all more or less superficial at the present 
time? 

Governor Olson. You mean with respect to evacuation? 

Mr. Bender. Yes. 

STATE PROGRAM 

Governor Olson. Well, I would say that there is much to be done. 
No, I don't believe that whatever equipment is required in connection 
with the evacuation has been programmed, or arranged for, only 
to this extent: When it seemed likely that the State might have the 
whole work of looking after evacuees, whether alien or whether they 
were evacuees from bombed areas, we had committees of our State 
council of defense working on plans with reference to places to which 
they could be removed; and the means of accomplishing their evacua- 
tion by the organization of transportation facilities, and the coor- 
dination of the available transportation facilities in such evacuation. 
That had to do with a program that had to be prepared for any disaster 
that might come from bombing that would require removal of any 
considerable portion of the civihan population from a given area. 
That is all that our civilian defense contemplated. 

When it comes to moving the Japanese and the enemy alien popu- 
lation from these military zones to places where temporarily they 
may be in Death Valley or Owens Valley, and thence to some per- 
manent place, I frankly say we are leaving the expense of that to the 
Federal Government, and we are ready to cooperate with it. 

I think there are facilities, however, that we have already pro- 
grammed to use in the evacuation of civilian population in case of a 
disaster, which might be available and usable and called into service 
to assist in that, and that will be done. There is no doubt about that. 
In other words, the State and local councils of defense, which are down 
to business now, and are, I am sure, getting to the point of being 
really effective and able to discharge their duties in this civilian 
defense program will use whatever facilities, volunteer forces and 
oflBcial forces at their command, to assist. 

Mr. Bender. I have a purpose in asking this question. Governor, 
and the purpose is to consider recommendations within the committee 
itself regarding the areas to which these evacuees might be sent. You 
expressed the hope that other parts of the country would share in this 
effort and properly so should share. 

Governor Olson. That is right. 



11642 LOS AXGELES AXD S.\X FRAXCISCO HEARESTGS 

Mr. Bexder. However, in the event that other parts of the countrv 
failed to recognize their responsibility in this matter, for example, if 
the State government of Texas should not cooperate, or the State 
government of Colorado or any other State does the State of Cali- 
fornia have sufficient places for these people to go? 

Governor Olsox. Well, let me say before I answer that specific 
question, it seems to me that no State, whether Colorado or Texas 
or Montana and the Dakotas, would be called upon to bear any of the 
expense of housing or placing these people. It would only ask for an 
exhibition of the spirit of cooperation. That is the least they can do 
and if they don't do it, they should be sent there anyhow whether they 
manifest objection or not. 

ALL STATES SHOULD COOPERATE IX PROGRAM 

Xow. I would say that would apply as well to any part of our o^^ii 
State. If the program required cooperation on the part of counties 
in the eastern portion of California in receiving and handling any part 
of the evacuees there, they should do it. In other words, I don't like 
to see, either a State or county show a disposition to say "We won't 
do this. We don't want them here. We want somebody else to have 
them." It is our baby, all of us — the United States of America. It 
seems to me when the Federal Government decides as to the most 
feasible places to go. and the Federal Government paj^s for that, that 
that is the program we all ought to follow and those who stand in the 
way ought to get out of it. 

The Chairmax. In other words, if the Atlantic coast were bombed. 
New York, "Massachusetts, and hundreds of thousands of people 
have to get out of those States, you don't feel it would be right for 
Illinois or Ohio to say "We won't take them." 

Governor Olsox. I don't think it would be American. I don't 
think it would be patriotic. . I think it would be bordering on dis- 
sension in a time of war that shoudn't exist, sir. 

The Chairmax. In other words, you feel our danger on the Pacific 
coast is a national problem? 

Governor Olsox. Well, of course. Of course, it is a national 
proVjlem. 

The Chairmax. Thank you very much, Governor. We appreciate 
your coming here. 

TESTIMONY OF HON. FLETCHER BOWRON, MAYOR OF THE CITY 
OF LOS ANGELES, CALIF. 

The Chairmax. Will you have a seat there. We are very grateful 
to you for appearing, sir. Congressman Bender will ask you some 
questions. 

Mr. Bexder. Mayor 'Bovrron, your city has a larger concentration 
of Japanese and Germans than an}' other city on the west coast. 
You have, of course, given the problem of enemy alien control a 
great deal of thought, I am sure. The committee would like to have 
you indicate what type of municipal policy and progr-am you favor 
as to the control of enemy aliens generally. We would like to have 
the benefit of your views and suggestions on the administration of 
such a program. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE IVnCRATION 11643 

Could you make a statement as to your views regarding this problem 
in a general way? 

Mayor Bowron, I would be very glad to do so, gentlemen. However, 
I think anything that I may say might be more or less academic. I think 
our problem is solved. I think it has been solved by the United States 
Army. I think all evidence points to the fact that it is going to be 
done well and expeditiously. We felt that there was a little time in 
bringing this about, possibly a little time longer than we had hoped 
for, but now that the Army has stepped in with full authority, I feel 
quite confident that the program will be carried through, possibly, not 
exactly as we would like to direct it, but at the same time in such a 
way that it will give adequate protection to the people and to the 
property in this area. 

JAPANESE IN LOS ANGELES 

Since the beginning of hostilities, and for some time before, I gave 
this matter some serious consideration. I felt that it was vital. Here 
in Los Angeles we, as has been indicated, have the largest concentration 
of the Japanese population in America. Approximately one-quarter 
of all of the Japanese in the State, and about one-fifth of all the Japanese 
in America are located withm our city limits. We felt that the prob- 
lem was not being given adequate consideration for some time. Since 
the designation of Tom C. Clark as coordinator of the enemy alien 
program in the western States, I have had occasion to work quite 
closely with him. I have had conferences with General DeWitt. 
I have entire confidence in General DeWitt and his understanding of 
the problem and his ability to work it out. 

We have been somewhat exercised as to just where they are going 
to locate some of the Japanese population %vith respect to oiu- water 
supply, but I do not think that we want to be too critical. It is not 
the arrangement that we would like to see. However, I feel that in 
the opmion of General DeWitt and the Army engineers this is the 
site that they have selected. It is the site that will, regardless of any 
protest, be selected and, therefore, I think it is our part to be good 
soldiers in this war and bow to the inevitable gracefully, and I think 
we are going to do it; at least so far as I am concerned we are going 
to give full cooperation. 

With reference to the German and ItaHan population, I am not so 
familiar. It is all a Government problem. It is aU a Federal prob- 
lem and we will cooperate to the fullest extent. 

We feel that this is a vital area, not only by reason of its location 
on the Pacific coast, or its population, but also by reason of the inten- 
sive defense production effort that centers in this metropolitan area. 
We feel that it should be protected from without and from -vvithin as 
well and we propose to do our part. 

Now that the matter is well under way as to the evacuation of 
the Japanese population, what I might say is somewhat historical. 
I first want to make it clear that my position relative to the Japanese 
population here in our midst is not by reason of any racial or other 
prejudice. The relationship between myself and local government 
with local Japanese residents during the past years has been very 
satisfactory. The Japanese have caused very little trouble. They 
are law abiding and industrious and cooperative. I think our police 



11644 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

reports will show that there have been very few cases of law violation 
on behalf of the local Japanese population. 

BELIEVES JAPANESE HAD FOREKNOWLEDGE OF ATTACK 

As I look back on some events after the 7th of December, I am quite 
convinced that there was a large number of the Japanese population 
here locally who knew what was coming. They were setting them- 
selves, adjusting the scene for the outbreak of war between this 
country and Japan. I think that they somewhat overplayed their 
hand. 

Prior to a year or a year and a half ago, the relationship between the 
local Japanese population, which acts largely tlirough organizations, 
associations of one kind and another, was much that of any foreign 
group. When they had something to ask for they asked the local 
officials or local boards for what they had in mind. 

For approximately a year before December 7 last, representatives of 
various organizations were very much in evidence. They apparently 
went out of their way to demonstrate their American patriotism in 
numerous ways. Up until the happenings at Pearl Harbor, most of 
us felt that their avowed patriotism was sincere, and I still believe that 
on the part of a large number, possibly a majority, that it was sincere. 
I believe now that many of the local Japanese residents would do 
nothing harmful ; that they appreciate the protection they have here, 
and the democracy under which they are living. However, I know 
of no rule, no way to separate those who say they are patriotic and 
are, in fact, loyal at heart, and those who say they are patriotic and, 
in fact, at heart are loyal to Japan. I feel, and I think that the 
majority of the people in this community feel, that this being a total 
war, the only wise thing to do is to take precautions for the defense 
of the country, and I believe that that is exactly what General DeWitt 
is planning to do and what he will do. 

JAPANESE SOUGHT INFORMATION ON WATER SUPPLY 

Some few years ago, in 1934 to be exact, from the local consulate 
of the Japanese consul came a request to our bureau of water works 
and supply of our department of water and power, a request for de- 
tailed information about our entire water system. So much was 
asked for, so much detail was asked for, that it aroused the suspicion 
of the chief engineer and general manager of that department. Maps 
were requested. 

He addressed a communication to the local office of the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation, telling of the inquiry and of his suspicion. 
He received a reply that the matter was not within the jurisdiction 
of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, to please inquire of the United 
States Army. 

He addressed a communication to the commanding officer at Fort 
MacArthur. He received a reply that it was not within the jurisdic- 
tion of the local commander, to please address a communication to the 
commanding officer of the Ninth Corps Area. 

He did so. The reply came back that that was not within the peace- 
time jurisdiction of the United States Army, to please refer the matter 
to the F. B. I. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11645 

So that, prior to last December, we were merely going around in a 
circle and we felt from that experience, and various other evidences, 
that the agencies of the Government had not taken proper precautions 
to get the facts and pass those facts on to those who should know what 
the situation was. 

JAPANESE IN STRATEGIC POSITIONS IN CITY 

After December 7 I called for a report from the various department 
heads in our city government as to Japanese employees, or employees 
of Japanese parentage. I wanted to know how many we had and 
how long they had been employed, what they were doing and what 
opportunity they had to secure vital information. 

I found that since the inquiry had been made by the office of the 
Japanese consul that there had come into our employ, through civil- 
service means, employees who had taken civil-service examinations, 
and had been employed in our departments where they had an oppor- 
tunity not only to get all of the information that had been requested 
but everything that was vital in connection with our city services and 
public utilities so far as the city could determine the facts. 

We had employees who could, if they had been so minded, entirely 
sabotage our electric light distribution system. They had access to 
maps and data; and so, possibly, in a way that was criticized at the 
time, we suggested rather forcibly to all of these employees that they 
should immediately ask permission to retire from city service by asking 
for a leave of absence. While it was voluntary, it was suggested to 
them in such a way that all applied for such leaves and we have no 
Japanese employees at this time. Some of them undoubtedly were 
loyal and would have caused no trouble. 

Mr. Bender. Mayor, in order that you might get a correct picture 
of this committee, I would like to inform you that the Tolan com- 
mittee, as its name indicates, is a committee to investigate national 
defense migration, which we have been domg in various parts of the 
United States and because of the acuteness of the problem here, we 
came here and have been here since February 20. 

The recommendations that have been made have been carried out 
even to the minutest detail, and the work that General DeWitt is 
doing is that which, of course, the committee is in hearty accord. 
We are endeavoring to have this evacuation, whether it be all-inclusive 
or partial, done with the least possible confusion and avoiding what you 
describe as going around in circles and avoid, if possible, a major or 
minor Pearl Harbor happening here. 

WOULD MAKE EVACUATION ALL-INCLUSIVE 

You indicated in your statement that before Pearl Harbor many of 
these Japanese aliens, and possibly American citizens of Japanese 
origin, knew more than they had indicated or knew something as to 
what was about to happen. Under the circumstances, what is your 
opinion as to an all-inclusive immediate evacuation? Do you think 
that is desirable? 

Mayor BowRON. It is desirable with some qualification. We know 
that it is impossible to evacuate all of the Japanese population at 
once, but I feel that it is desirable that the entne Japanese population 

60396— 42— pt. 31 3 



11646 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

be moved from the general area tlaat has been designated as a combat 
area. 

Mr. Bender. Practically the entire delegation from California and 
from the west coast has on the floor of Congress declared that an 
evacuation should be had and it should be all-inclusive. Do you 
agree with that? 

Mayor Bowron. Absolutely. 

Mr. Bender. You mentioned the fact that you were in general ac- 
cord with General DeWitt's orders and what has taken place, with 
some reservations, some minor reservations possibly. We are anxious 
to know about these reservations. We are trying to be foresighted 
about this. If you have any suggestions that you care to make to 
the committee off the record,' that you are not making on the record, 
we would appreciate that because we are getting many off-the-record 
suggestions. 

RECOMMENDATIONS FOR APPEALS BOARD 

However, on the record I would like to ask you some specific ques- 
tions about problems that have been brought to our attention that 
call for recommendations from this committee. We are making these 
recommendations daily as well as making a general recommendation 
after the committee leaves California. Among the proposals that 
have been made to the committee, one is for the establishment of 
special boards to which appeals could be made in unusual cases in 
connection with this evacuation. 

Do you favor such a proposal, and if so, what representation would 
you like to see on such boards? 

Mayor Bowron. You are referring to the Japanese only? 

Mr. Bender. I am referring to Japanese, Italians, and Germans. 

Mayor Bowron. I would undoubtedly favor the establishment of 
such a board with respect to the general problem. 

I feel so far as the Japanese are concerned that once you start to 
make exceptions, you will be getting into hot water and the problem 
will immediately become complicated; whereas, now, it is simple. 
But with respect to Italians and Germans, I think undoubtedly there 
should be such a board and no general rule can be made and followed. 

Mr. Bender. You have no specific notions then as to repre- 
sentation on the board? 

Mayor Bowron. No, I haven't. 

concurs in ARMY EVACUATION POLICY 

Mr. Bender. General DeWitt, in specifying the prohibited and 
restricted zones, has indicated that the evacuation would be gradual 
and on a special group basis. You have already expressed sonie 
opinion in reply to my statement that the west coast representation 
in Congress had expressed itself pretty generally. Do you have any 
further expression in keeping with General DeWitt's policy of handlmg 
this matter? 

Mayor Bowron. No further than I am confident he has studied 
the question thorouglily and has reached sound conclusions and I 
for one am very happy to see the stand he has taken and the action 
that he is showing us. I have confidence in the General, confidence 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11647 

in his decision and the precision with which he is going to carry it 
through. 

Mr. Arnold. Mayor, we have had general approval expressed 
from mayors and governors and people in authority of the service 
rendered by the F. B. I. Do you share that view? 

Mayor Bo WRON. No. 

Mr. Bender. Do you care to say anything regarding that? 

Mayor Bowron. No; I think I prefer not to make a public state- 
ment relative to the matter. 

Mr. Bender. Would you like to discuss that with the committee? 

Mayor Bow^ron. I would be very glad to privately. 

Mr. Bender. Under the evacuation of February 24 you, of course, 
have experienced some of the problems, though on a smaller scale, 
which will arise in the forthcoming large scale evacuation program. 
From that experience how would you say that civic groups and civic 
institutions can be used to forward the program and minimize the 
hardships? Do you have anything to suggest regarding your munici- 
pal government or other semipublic groups as to how they could be 
used in connection with this evacuation? 

Mayor Bowron. I am afraid that I could not offer any helpful 
suggestion along that line, further than to pledge full cooperation. 
We would be very glad to adjust ourselves to any program. I think, 
undoubtedly, it should be a State-wide, if not a coast-wide program, 
rather than necessarily adjusted to specific local conditions or cir- 
cumstances. 

Mr. Bender. The committee is informed that the Japanese play an 
important part in certain phases of your city's economic life, primarily, 
the distribution of fresh vegetables. Would you describe for the com- 
mittee what steps you are considering to meet the social and economic 
repercussions of large-scale evacuations? Wliat, for instance, will be 
the effect on the city's food supply and system of distribution? 

Mayor Bowron. There are others who could describe that much 
better than I. Steps are being taken under an organization that is 
more representative of the county than the city, to help solve that 
problem.. While there are some truck gardens in the city, most of the 
gardening or raising of vegetables is located in areas outside of the city 
limits. Necessarily, it will quite seriously affect the fresh vegetable 
supply for this large populous area. However, I think our people will 
be glad to adjust themselves to wartime conditions. 

PLANS TO take OVER JAPANESE WORK 

As I understand the plan that is being carried on, largely under the 
direction of the county council of defense, an effort is being made to 
secure those persons who have had experience in some type of farm- 
ing, and who could adjust themselves to raising those things that the 
Japanese gardeners have been raising, and who could and would take 
over the small truck farms just as soon as they are evacuated, and make 
fair compensation, taking over leases or effecting subleases, and taking 
over equipment and, if necessary, growing crops. So that there would 
be those who could step in immediately and carry on, possibly not as 
effectively, but well, I believe. 

Mr. Bender. Is there some person in the city goveiTiment who is 
conversant with this particular problem so that this Committee on 



11648 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

National Defense Migration might have an intelHgent statement from 
your city, or from some agency in your city, as to what might be done 
nationally in connection with this problem? Would you be willing 
to ask some department of the city to prepare a brief statement for us 
that we might take back to Washington with us in connection with 
this particular problem, something that would assist in handling this 
matter m the event of a wholesale evacuation? 

Mayor Bowron. You are referring primarily to food production? 

Mr. Bender. Yes. 

Mayor Bowron. Yes; I w^ould be very glad to have someone give 
you more information than I can adequately give. 

Mr. Bender. We w^ould appreciate it if you would. 

city's responsibility is to cooperate with ARMY 

Is it a correct summary of your position that with General DeWitt's 
recent order, the city of Los Angeles no longer has any responsibility 
with respect to the evacuation since the Ai-my has assumed complete 
control? 

Mayor Bowron. I think we have the responsibility to give full 
cooperation. We never have felt that it is a local problem. We 
have only endeavored to bring the facts to the attention of the appro- 
priate Federal officials in order that appropriate steps might be taken. 

Mr. Bender. The Japanese, we understand, and as you have 
indicated, live in very concentrated areas in Los Angeles. So that any 
large scale evacuation will leave such areas practically uninhabited. 
Have you made any plans for the care and use of such areas to see 
that their economic value to the city is not lost? 

Mayor Bowron. As I have indicated, the principal problem is 
outside of the city, in the taking over of these small farms. Within 
the city we will not have a serious problem because with the coming 
here, recently, of the defense workers, and a somewhat difficult 
difficult housing problem, I feel that we will have no particular 
difficulty in taking over any property that may be inhabitable; 
a problem that may be true to a lesser extent of the business houses. 

Mr. Bender. Have you any program to suggest for the protection 
and the conservation of the property rights of the evacuees? 

Mayor Bowron. That is a very difficult and involved and some- 
what perplexing question. Of course, I feel that the full legal rights of 
all must be protected. Just how it can best be done, I am not pre- 
pared to suggest. It requires much detail and much attention. 

Mr. Bender. Mayor, the committee has heard that you have given 
considerable thought to plans for the internment and resettlement of 
evacuees. 

What are your conclusions on possible sites and type of control? 
The committee has heard, for instance, of your interest in developing 
the sites now under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Indian Affairs. 

Mayor Bowron. I think that that can be worked out. 

I may say that one of the representatives of the city of Los Angeles, 
now in '^Washington, has had that matter up with the Office of Indian 
Affairs of the Department of the Interior. I am informed that the 
Office of Indian Affairs is willing to undertake much of the detail in 
connection with the settlement of the Japanese from the Cahfornia 
area. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11649 



POSSIBLE RELOCATION SITES 



It has been suggested that a good location is afforded by land in- 
cluded in the Parker Indian Reservation, which is on the Arizona side 
of the Colorado River, close to the town of Blythe. There are some 
122,000 acres that can be cleared and irrigated by gravity flow of 
water, and some 60,000 acres in addition that can be put under culti- 
vation by lifting the water some 30 or 40 feet. I know that that mat- 
ter is being given consideration. 

The United States Army engineers visited the area either yester- 
day or the day before and are, I think, already familiar with some of 
the problems. Another location that has been given consideration is 
in the Palos Verde irrigation district near the town of Blythe, where 
some 16,000 acres of good tillable land can readily be put under 
cultivation, requiring, however, a lift of Colorado River water, which 
is already allocated for this irrigation district, of about 35 feet. 

There is yet another project that has been discussed in what is 
known as the Chucka Walla Valley. That, however, would require 
some time to develop. While water is available from the metro- 
politan water district, the power that would be necessary to lift the 
water over the hill into this valley has been contracted for by the 
large magnesium factory at Las Vegas. 

As I understand the representations that have been made to us 
with respect to the establishment of a camp in Owens Valley, which 
is at, or near, the head waters of our water supply, that will not be a 
permanent concentration camp, but will merely be a place where 
those evacuees may be retained, registered, and then as other projects 
are developed, moved on to other locations, possibly at the Parker 
Indian Reservation. Some, I understand, are in contemplation in 
other States, in Utah and Colorado, where smaller numbers may be 
put to some useful work. 

We have been given assurance that there will be an adequate Army 
detachment so that the head waters of our aqueduct will be protected 
and the water supply protected as well. 

As I said a little while ago we would much prefer that the Japanese 
be moved to some other location. We cannot very well be placed in 
the position of urging that they be taken out of this immediate locality 
and at the same time saying "Put them some place else where they will 
concern others than ourselves." I think that we will make the best 
of it. 

Mr. Bender. Do you feel it will be a mistake to make a permanent 
residence for the duration of the war rather than just a temporary 
receiving station? 

Mayor Bowron. Well, there are many reasons for that. One is 
that, while the Owens Valley could be made quite productive, the 
conditions are not such as would adjust themselves to the raising of 
vegetables of the kind and character that are generally needed for 
this populous area. The season is too short and there are possibly 
other local conditions that should be taken into consideration, and 
I think have been taken into consideration. 

Mr. Bender. Mayor, is there any other point on which you would 
like to express yourself that I have not questioned you? 

Mayor Bowron. No; I think not. 



11650 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

SELECTION OF SITES 

Mr. Curtis. The time is late, mayor, but I want to point out this, 
in connection with the location of sites: It is almost imperative that 
these sites be picked where the Government owns some land. Isn't 
that true? Public domain or forest reservation or some such location 
as that? 

Mayor Bowron. Well, that would be preferable. I would hate 
to see some land speculation project grow out of this. 

Mr. Curtis. Well, what I am getting at is this: The Governors of 
some of these States to whom we sent a telegram asking them if they 
could take some Japanese replied that they do not have 1 acre of 
public domain in them. It means that they would have to go out and 
condemn the farms and homes that the people are living in. Then 
you would have the problem of what to do with those people. That 
was my point: If at aU possible to locate them on unsettled land or 
public land. That would be much easier, wouldn't it? 

Mayor Bowron. Much easier and much more satisfactory to all 
concerned, I thould think. 

Mr. Arnold. Mayor, I just wanted to ask you one question. 
I don't want to ask you further to commit yourself, but I wanted to 
be sure that I was straight. The approbation of the work of the 
F. B, I. along the coast has been so unanimous, even General DeWitt 
saying their services have been invaluable to him. I wonder if you 
are referring to the Federal Bureau of Investigation under J. Edgar 
Hoover, or some other division of the Department of Justice under 
General Biddle. 

THINKS F, B. I. INEFFECTIVE IN WARTIME 

Mayor Bowron. Well, I think that the F. B. I. has been a wonder- 
ful peacetime organization. I don't think it is effective in the time 
of war. I don't think there is sufficient cooperation in a practical 
way between that organization and the military and Army Intelli- 
gence. I don't think that the very fine investigators of the F. B. I. 
who are attorneys or accountants and have, over a period of years, 
had much training in the matter of securing evidence and preparing 
it as evidence in court, are just the ones to appraise the military value 
of information and parcel it out to the Army and the Navy. 

Mr. Arnold. Has your police force been asked to cooperate with 
the F. B. I.? 

Mayor Bowron. Yes; and they have to the fullest extent. I may 
say that the relationship between the local office of the F. B. I. and 
our police department and our local city government has been very 
favorable. It is merely a matter of general protection against internal 
enemy agents in time of war and securing of information within our 
own territory of military value that I am concerned with. I am mak- 
ing no criticism of the way the F. B. I. functions or its general effi- 
ciency or effectiveness. 

Mr. Bender. You know that today, of course, we are not all con- 
versant with all of the matters in which the F. B. I. functions, but I 
can say that, like the Lord, they work in mysterious ways their 
wonders to perform. Possibly we are not all conversant with them 
but in any event we are interested in your opinion because we value it. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11651 

Mayor Bowron. I would be very glad to meet with the members 
of the committee at a time when my remarks would not be public. I 
don't want them to be misunderstood. I want to be helpful and con- 
structive, and certainly this is not the time to sow any seeds of dis- 
trust anywhere. 

POPULATIOX OF LOS ANGELES 

The Chaieman. Mayor, I just wanted to ask you one question: 
Could you give the committee an extremely conservative estimate of 
the population of Los Angeles County? About how many people have 
you in Los Angeles County? 

Mayor Bowron. I can tell you, speaking for the city, we have 
slightly more than 1,600,000 at the present time within the city 
limits. 

In the county I have received the figures based upon the best test 
that we can make. We find that the total increase since the 1940 
census has been approximately 300,000. Now, I must confess that 
I do not recall exactly what the population figures for the county 
might have been as shown by the census returns. 

Mr. Bender. Has the war effort and the war increased your hous- 
ing problem here? 

Mayor Bowron. Yes. However, it is not as serious as in other 
sections of the State. Private industry has, I think, taken care of 
the situation fahly well, but not sufficiently well, particularly around 
our harbor area and in the vicinity of some of the larger industrial 
plants, particularly the aircraft industry plants. 

Mr. Bender. Mr. Mayor; off the record, Mr. Reporter. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

The Chairman. Mayor, the reason I asked about the population 
of Los Angeles County: A Pacific coast delegation, of Representatives 
and Senators of California, Oregon, and Washington, met almost 
daily, and we had before us. Admiral Stark, General Marshall, and 
others. They tell me that the Atlantic coast can and probably will 
be bombed; and the Pacific coast can and probably will be bombed. 
1 am thinldng in the terms of the number of people here. Suppose 
there was an evacuation of all the people of the city of Los Angeles. 
Where would they go? 

CANNOT EVACUATE ENTIRE CITY IN EVENT OF ATTACK 

Mayor Bowron. There cannot be any general evacuation. That 
matter has been studied very carefully and we must concede that in 
the event of actual bombing or attack we would have to prepare to 
take care of the civilian population right where it is located at the 
present time. The evacuation offers too many practical difficulties, 
not only with respect to means of transportation, but such things as 
water supply and the transportation of food, and housing, that it 
appears that the only practical solution is to redouble our efforts in the 
nature of civilian protection right here in this area. 

The Chairman. Learn how to duck? 

Mayor Bowron. Yes. 

The Chairman. Well, that was the thought that I received back 
there from our congressional delegation, that it would be impossible 
to evacuate them all. Mr. Mayor, thank you very much. We 



11652 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

appreciate very much your kindness and your patience with us here 
and we will have a discussion with you off the record before we leave. 

Mr. Bender. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

The Chairman. The committee will now stand adjourned until 
2 o'clock. 

(Whereupon at 12:30 p. m. an adjournment was taken until 2 
p. m. of the same day.) 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGEATION 



FBIDAY, MARCH 6, 1942 

afternoon session 

House of Representatives, 
Select Committee Investigating 

National Defense Migration, 

Washington, D. C. 

The committee met at 2 p. m. 

Mr. Arnold. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Hewes will be om- first witness this afternoon. 

TESTIMONY OF LAURENCE HEWES, JR., REGIONAL DIRECTOR, 
FARM SECURITY ADMINISTRATION, REGION 9, SAN FRANCISCO, 
CALIF. 

Mr. Arnold. Mr. Hewes, will you state your name, address, and 
occupation for the record? 

Mr. Hewes. Laurence Hewes, Jr., regional director. Farm Security 
Administration, Region 9, 30 Van Ness Avenue, San Francisco. Region 
9 includes the States of California, Nevada, Utah, and Arizona, 

Mr. Arnold. The committee is glad to have you again as a wit- 
ness, Mr. Hewes. Do you know whether the States you have men- 
tioned are the same as those contained in the Ninth Corps Area of 
the Army? 

Mr. Hewes. I do not know. 

Mr. Arnold. The committee understands that you have been 
asked, just in the last day or two, by General DeWitt, to serve on his 
civilian coordinating committee. We realize that you will not feel 
free to answer some of the questions that we might otherwise wish to 
ask you. I suggest that you proceed in your own way. The com- 
mittee will be glad to have the opportunity of discussing any such 
questions with you at an executive session if more information is 
wanted. 

The prepared statement you submitted will be incorporated in the 
record. 

(The statement referred to above is as follows:) 

STATEMENT BY LAURENCE I. HEWES, JR., REGIONAL DIRECTOR, 
REGION IX, FARM SECURITY ADMINISTRATION, SAN FRAN- 
CISCO, CALIF. 

Thus far the Farm Security Administration has not been informed from any 
source that this agency or its facilities will be used in connection with either the 
evacuation or the resettlement of aliens affected by the Presidential order of 
February 20, 1942. I have assumed from informal conversations with Mr. C. B. 
Baldwin, Administrator of the Farm Security Administration, and Mr. Richard 

11653 



11654 LOS ANGELES AND S-\N FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Neustadt, Regional Director for the Social Security Board in San Francisco, that 
this agency may be called upon to assist in handling the movement of aliens when 
definite information is available as to what areas and what persons are to be 
evacuated and where and under what circumstances these people will be resettled. 

I assume that the decisions on these points will be made by the appropriate 
army officials on the basis of military necessity in the interest of national defense 
and that the agencies participating with the military authorities in the disposition 
of the persons affected and their properties will operate in conformity with 
decisions emanating from the Army. 

Certainly any large number of people uprooted from their home territories 
cannot be left adrift to scatter and relocate themselves within the boundaries of 
areas which may be designated for their occupancy, particularly when the resi- 
dents of such areas, as is now clearly indicated, are hostile to the idea of alien 
infiltration into their communities. The confusion, probable riot and violence and 
certainly extreme hardship and distress which would inevitably result would 
create problems of relief and policing which would be made more difhcult by 
reason of the fact that the aliens and such others of foreign extraction as are 
dist>laced would be scattered and intermingled with the resident population. 

Certain it is also that if persons evicted from designated defense areas are 
obliged to make separate private arrangements for the disposition of their property 
which they leave behind, great hardships and sacrifices will be entailed because of 
their absence and loss of bargaining power imposed by the necessity for their 
removal to other localities, and their consequent inability to protect their property 
interests. 

In so far as the 175,000 acres of crop land in approximately 5,000 Japanese 
operated farms is concerned it is highly important that they be continued in 
intensive production of fruits and vegetables in order that vital food supplies 
needed for war purposes be maintained. 

It is also important to the national war effort that workers among the 35,000 
Japanese living on farms in California, and those of other occupations and of 
other enemy alien nationalities who will be removed from their usual occupations, 
be returned to some kind of useful employment elsewhere in order that their 
labor power be not lost during a period when maximum productivity of the entire 
population is called for. 

SPECIFIC ACTION' REQUIRED IN EV.\CU-A,TION 

As I see it. therefore, the problems involved in the handling of enemy aliens and 
other persons designated by the army for removal from combat areas indicate 
action along the following specified lines: 

1. The creation or designation of an agency clothed with authority and adequate 
funds and priorities which will enable it to operate rapidly and effectively in 
performing the necessary functions in connection with the disposition of aliens 
and others for which it is made responsible. 

2. The persons evacuated should be removed in a few large groups and housed 
in centralized communities strategically located for employment in areas desig- 
nated by the Army. 

3. The same agency should be awarded custody of all property necessarily left 
behind by evacuees in order that the interest of the owers may be protected during 
the period of their enforced absence and in order that the properties, particularly 
the agricultural land, continue to be used in the service of national defense and 
particularly the production of needed foodstuffs. 

4. This agency should be charged with the responsibility of arranging for 
employment of all qualified workers either in private jobs in agriculture or in 
industry or on necessary public projects operating in the general area where the 
evictees are concentrated in order that their labor power may not be wasted but 
may be utilized to release other labor which can be used without restriction for 
defense production elsewhere. 

PERMANENT RELOCATION PROJECTS NOT FEASIBLE 

Permanent relocation projects are not. in my opinion, in order for consideration 
at this time. Such permanent projects would involve large capital investments 
for land and other productive equipment and installations as a basis for long-term 
support of a transplanted population at a time when almost nothing is known 
about what the desires of the evacuated families are or will be toward permanent 
resettlement in a new localitv. It is to be assumed, I think, that most of them 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11655 

will desire to return to tVieir former homes if possible or at least to the community 
in which they have formerly lived and wori<ed and which they know. 

The creation of centralized conimunities would require the construction of 
temporary housing where the evacuees could live and from which they could go 
out to work either for the duration of the emergency or until arrangements were 
made for their employment on public projects in adjacent areas where additional 
housing facilities are available or could be constructed. If such centralized 
communities were adjacent to opportunities for private employment in agricul- 
tural or nonagricultural work they would serve as the continued place of residence 
for all those who could find work within reasonable travel distance. 

Since the presence in a given community of any considerable number of workers 
restricted as to their mobility and privileges would have an effect on the local 
labor market, any agency such as has been suggested should be authorized to 
determine the prevailing rate of pay for the various classifications of jobs available 
to employable evacuees in the area immediately adjacent to the various central 
communities and in nearby competing areas and to arrange for the movement of 
the mobile portion of the evacuee labor supply in such manner as to prevent local 
inequalities between wage scales. 

PLANNING REQUIRED TO PREVENT LOSS OF PRODUCIION 

The loss of production from Japanese farms left by their operators may be even 
more .serious than the large acreage figure (17-5,000 acres) would indicate because 
of a heavy concentration in vegetable production by the Japanese. Unle.ss there 
be careful planning for the transfer of these lands under specific requirements that 
they be maintained in the intensive culture of truck and vegetables, the volume of 
such produciton may decline significantly. Haphazard transfer of production 
operations to the hands of those most able financially to assume that responsi- 
bility may easily result in a change in the cropping pattern and a loss of produc- 
tivity in certain important items of food. This is a matter which in the public 
interest cannot be left to fortuitous chance of private negotiation. 

FARM SECURITY ADMINISTRATION PROGRAMS 

You have asked my opinion as to the feasibility of a suggestion that the Farm 
Security Administration might form a corporation to operate the lands of evac- 
uated aliens and citizens. My answer is that the Farm Security Administration 
has created Defense Relocation Corporations in a number of States for the purpose 
of assisting farm families, displaced from land required by the Army for military 
operations, in relocating them.selves on new land. Where such corporations have 
been established they act as agents for the faniilies to be a.ssi.sted in carrying out, 
through private contracts and cooperation with other Govemm.ent agencies, the 
essential construction and land developm.ent work required for the relocation of 
the families. These corporations are agencies created to assist in permanent 
resettlement of farm families on the land. This is a different kind of job from 
that required in connection with the presently contemplated movement of aliens 
from lands and properties and occupations to which they probably will desire to 
return at some future time when the emergenc}' has tem^iinated. 

The Farm Security Administration has experience in constructing and operating 
housing facilities from which the residents go out to employmient, and also in 
operating farm lands devoted to intensive production both directly and under 
lease to individuals and to cooperative groups. 

With regard to corporate operation of Japanese lands it is my opinion that no 
corporation can successfully operate directly a large number of widely scattered 
holdings. Siich a corporation might operate certain tracts directly but woiild 
more probably arrange for their operation under lease to nearby farmers with 
provisions stipulating certain types of production and certain cultural practices 
to assure the noaximum production possible. 



11656 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

TESTIMONY OF LAURENCE I. HEWES, Jr.— Resumed 

Has the Farm Security Administration a program and funds with 
which to assist in this evacuation program? 

Mr. Hewes. As I understand it, the Farm Security Administration 
or any other agency of the Federal Government can be called upon 
by the Army. The Farm Security Administration has, I understand, 
complete authority in this whole problem to assist the Army with its 
personnel or its equipment or its organization in any way that the 
Army may direct. The fact of the matter is, of course, that we have 
our regular duties to perform and our regularly assigned work, but if 
the Army gives us an assignment we are going to carry it out to the 
best of our ability, giving it priority over our regular work. 

Mr. Arnold. Well, them, will it be your funds that are used, or 
funds supplied by the Army? 

Mr. Hewes. I assume that it would have to be funds supplied by 
the Army since our funds are already pretty well used up for this 
fiscal year for regularly authorized purposes. 

UTILIZATION OF FARM SECURITY ADMINISTRATION 

I might add that the possible utility of the Farm Security Adminis- 
tration in connection with this problem arises out of our experience 
with the migration which has come to California within the last 10 
years from the West-Sou th-Central States and of persons who have 
left those States for various reasons and have come to California and 
become agricultural laborers. 

The problems of housing, moving of people, and trying to establish- 
some form of economic security for dispossessed people, has provided 
a fund of experience which, if the Army needs it, is available. 

We have also in the Farm Security Administration had assigned to 
us in the last year a considerable volume of emergency housing for 
defense workers by the Defense Housmg Coordinator and other 
Federal agencies. In that connection we have built defense dormi- 
tories to house construction workers in San Diego, Mare Island Navy- 
Yard, Benicia Arsenal, and in several of the cantonments and air 
fields. We have had experience in using prefabricated materials and 
operating on a pretty tight time schedule. We have some idea of the 
unit costs involved and of the construction problems that arise out of 
that type of housing which, 1 assume, may be somewhat parallel to 
the problem that is faced by those authorities now engaged or respon- 
sible for evacuation of aliens and citizens. 

-' Mr. Arnold. Yes. The committee has heard very glowing com- 
ments on the manner in which the Farm Security Administration has 
always done construction works that were assigned to them. I don't 
know of any other agency in the Government that has shown more 
efficiency and more speed, where speed was needed, than has your 
agency. 

Does the Farm Security Administration have housing facilities for 
needy people in this area? And if so, are they sufficient for the present 
migration? 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11657 

NO HOUSING FACILITIES AVAILABLE 

Mr. Hewes. WeU, the housing faciUties that have been constructed 
up to the present time fall into two classifications: One, the classifica- 
tion of agricultural workers; and two, the housing built under special 
funds for the purpose of providing housing for defense workers. In 
both categories the housing is completely occupied and devoted to a 
specific purpose. On the one hand the housing is for agi'icultural 
labor and on the other for defense workers and military personnel. 
So it would be only fair to state that there are no facilities now avail- 
able under the control of the Farm Security Administration that are 
vacant or that could be diverted without at the same time displacing 
persons now resident in the projects or in the housing facilities. 

Mr. Arnold. Your camps for migratory workers are now occupied? 

Mr. Hewes. Yes; and scheduled for occupancy some time ahead. 
In the case of the mobile migratory labor camps, the camps which 
move from place to place as the season changes, comniitments have 
been made throughout this crop year for all of the mobile units. 

FOOD-FOR-VICTORY PROGRAM 

Mr. Arnold. There is another problem with which the Farm Secu- 
rity Administration is concerned because that is an agency that has 
undertaken the food-for-victory program. How is that program 
related to the present problem? 

Mr. Hewes. The low-income farmer who is unable to obtain 
financing from any other source and is eligible to the loan fund of the 
Farm Security Administration, has provided a source of increased 
production for war needs since these farmers can increase, propor- 
tionately, and on a percentage basis, a higher percentage increase 
than the better established farmers. To that end we have made 
available a source of loan fund that is easy to get where it can be tied 
into increased production for the war emergency. 

One of the difficulties is the inadequacy of the farm units farmed by 
a great many of these people. Should lands now occupied or farmed 
either by owners, or by tenants who are evacuated, become available, 
Farm Security Administration might be in a position to help place 
on the land made vacant by evacuation small farmers who do not 
now have adequate resources and therefore are unable to make a 
contribution to the national food campaign. 

lands should not go out of production 

I think that probably all agricultural officials today are concerned 
lest the production of lands occupied by aliens, or by citizens of Japa- 
nese descent, go out of production or remain out of production, or meet 
a situation where agTicultural operations are delayed. We do 
need enormously increased production and we can't afford any situa- 
tion that results in decreased production. One specific item is toma- 
toes, which are very much in demand under lend-lease for shipment 
abroad. It would be a shame and somewhat disastrous, I think, from 
the point of view of the total agricultural production of this State, if 
a situation were to arise which would put any considerable acreage out 



11658 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

of production, or to delay it, or to cause a reduction instead of an 
increase. 

Mr. Arnold. Has the Farm Security Administration taken any 
steps to place people on the farms evacuated already by enemy aliens, 
or to be evacuated? 

Mr. Hewes. No; because up until very recently, there was no 
agency of Govermnent, that was in a sufficiently assured position as 
to policy as to be able to make commitments and, naturally, farmers 
can't go on land unless they are sure that they are going to be able to 
have some security of tenure. 

So, although we have had many inquiries, and although other 
agricultural agencies have had other inquiries, we have been unable 
to give any definitive answers or to give any satisfaction up to the 
present time. 

AVERAGE LAND HOLDINGS 

Mr. Arnold. In the Seattle area, where we just came from, the 
testimony was to the effect that a great deal of the Japanese activity 
there was on small family-size farms and that a rather small portion 
of the land was owned. Most of it was leased by the Japanese. 
Does that apply down in this area? 

Mr. Hewes. I believe that that general situation applies here. 
I believe the 1940 census shows that there are 224,000 acres of agri- 
cultural land in California that are Japanese operated; that is, either 
by citizens or noncitizens. Of that 224,000 acres, I believe 175,000 
actually is operated. That is just a little better than half of the 
total land in this state devoted to vegetables. So with 5,000 opera- 
tors on 224,000 acres, you get some idea of the average holdings. 

Mr. Arnold. If you could explain, for the committee's record, in 
what manner and to what extent the Farm Security Administration 
could assist the Government in evacuating enemy aliens from these 
vital defense areas on the coast, we would very much appreciate it. 

Mr. Hewes. Of course, we don't want to appear in any way to 
be telling any other agency what its business is. 

INCIDENCE OF DISEASE IN MASS MOVEMENTS 

Our experience has indicated that there are a number of affiliated 
problems, some of which can become very severe and very bother- 
some in connection with people moved in large numbers from places 
that they have formerly made their homes. For instance, the matter 
of health. We have had the experience of operating in California 
a very large medical program for agricultural laborers. Our experience 
in that, since 1938, has taught us many things, some things not to 
do and some things to do. 

The type of disease; the amount of incidence of the disease per 
thousand members of the population; the kind of diseases; the kind of 
illnesses to be prepared to prevent and to treat; the relationship of 
sanitation to health has been something that is extremely troublesome 
and must be considered in advance and must be dealt with according 
to experience. 

We have had some deplorable health situations in southern Arizona 
and in places in Cahfornia that have sprung up quickly and have be- 
come semiepidemic and have cost local authorities large amounts of 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11659 

money until they were brought under control. We have developed 
some techniques for exposing those situations in advance and getting 
at them. When men, women and children, are housed under somewhat 
rigorous conditions, the health and sanitation problem has to be faced. 
It has to be faced right away. Problems of shelter have to be faced 
and faced right away. The problem of movement — how to get people 
from one place to another in considerable numbers — is something 
that is a matter of experience and training. 

The ability to locate areas in which people can live with some hope 
of carrying on a normal existence is something that we have had the 
experience with, sometimes favorably and sometimes unfavorably. 

The point is that the Farm Security Administration has had ex- 
perience in those particular problems in a group ranging up to 100,000 
individuals in this State and in southern Arizona. 

Mr. Arnold. Therefore, your agency has had valuable experience 
that should be utilized in aiding in this movement, this vast movement 
of aliens and citizens. 

Air. Hewes. WeU, it is available; we have been through the fire 
and we are glad to make the information available if it is necessary. 

One of the other problems that has been particularly troublesome 
has been the thought or the theory of resettlement of people from the 
West South Central States. In connection with that, all agencies of 
the Department of Agriculture and, to some extent, the Department 
of the Interior, have examined rather exhaustively large tracts of 
public domain, made soil surveys and water surveys, and marketing 
surveys, of some considerable areas, notably the Yuma Mesa, of the 
Grand Coulee section in Washington, the Fort Mojave section on the 
Arizona side of the Colorado River, the section around Wickenburg 
and Hassayampa in Arizona, and in other regions, the Farm Security 
Administration and other agencies have considered such areas as the 
San Luis Valley in Colorado. 

Those investigations are fairly complete, fairly scientific and made 
by pretty well-trained people. 

DIVISION OF AUTHORITY IN EVACUATION PROGRAM 

Mr. Curtis. As I understand these viewpoints you are expressing 
here, it is that who should be evacuated and from what places is 
distinctly a decision which should be made by the military authorities, 
but that in all of the ramifications of the problem which may call for 
the moving of entire families, with tiny babies, getting them located 
in places where they can carry on and be self-sustaining, you feel that 
several agencies of the Government, such as your own, should be 
called upon to make such contributions, as they are particularly 
trained in that line. 

Mr. Hewes. I believe they should be, and I have a very definite 
impression that they are going to be; whether they are ready to take 
the responsibility or not, they will have to. That is a matter of Army 
decision. I believe the Army has very sweeping authority to get that 
cooperation. 

Mr. Curtis. T\Tiat I am getting at is this: There is no quarrel 
with anyone in reference to the fact that this must be decided on a 
military basis as to the need for evacuation, and to what places. Is 
that right? 



11660 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Hewes. That is entirely correct. 

Mr. Curtis. And in reference to such problems as local farming 
land after certain people are moved out, you do not feel that those 
questions should determine the broad question of whether or not there 
should be an evacuation? 

Mr. Hewes. Not at all. 

LENGTH OF TIME REQUIRED FOR EVACUATION 

Mr. Bender. In the event of wholesale evacuation — that is, I 
mean of approximately 125,000 persons — what, in your judgment, or 
how long a time would be required? Would you care to comment, 
or would you care to give us an estimate as to the time required so 
that they might be properly housed and cared for and so that it could 
be done with dispatch and efficiency and so that there would be no 
bad effects resulting therefrom? How long would you say this would 
require? 

Mr, Hewes. Well, there would be certain preliminary questions 
that would have to be answered. Would the 125,000 persons be 
located in one specific area where they are close to transportation 
facilities so that the matter of actual movement could be handled on 
a mass basis promptly; or, would they be scattered in a number of 
areas over long distances? The second would, of course, raise another 
type of problem. Assuming we have our site selected, if the con- 
struction of the reception points at which the people are to be relo- 
cated had to begin at the beginning — no housing on it — then the prob- 
lem is one of how fast can construction proceed. And No. 2: Is the 
construction to be a permanent residence, or is it to be simply a 
temporary receiving point from which people are finally to be re- 
shipped? If it is the second case, then one type of construction can 
be used; if it is going to be a permanent situation, then another 
type would have to be used. If it were of the former type, a consider- 
able period of time would probably have to elapse to be able to estab- 
lish normal living quarters for a family of four people in groups of 
125,000. That would take several months. 

Now, if it is just a matter of a receiving center, that is another 
problem, and probably construction of that type could be completed 
in the matter of a much shorter time, a matter of a month or 6 
weeks. 

Those estimates are based on civilian experience in normal times 
under so-called normal conditions. They may have no bearing what- 
ever on a war emergency with central authority which has wide and 
sweeping powers to get construction done in a hurry. I don't know 
that our experience is commensurable at all with the present situation. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much, Mr. Hewes. We appreciate 
very much having this testimony. 

Miss Winifred Ryder. Just be seated, Miss Ryder. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11661 

TESTIMONY OF MISS WINIFRED RYDER, DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL 
ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, SOCIAL SECURITY BOARD, LOS AN- 
GELES, CALIF. 

Mr. Arnold. Congressman Curtis will proceed with the interroga- 
tion. 

Mr. Curtis. Will you give your full name to the reporter? 

Miss Ryder. Winifred Ryder. 

Mr. Curtis. What is your official occupation? 

Aliss Ryder. My official position is a worker with the Social As- 
sistance Division of the Federal Security Agency. 

Mr. Curtis. You are located in Los Angeles? 

Miss Ryder. My headquarters office is at 785 Market Street, San 
Francisco. I have an assignment in Los Angeles County from the 
San Francisco regional office directing and organizing the program 
of social assistance for the relief of aliens of enemy nationalities forced 
to move from prohibited areas. 

Mr. Curtis. Do you have with you a copy of the assignment 
designating your agency to assist in alien control? 

Miss Ryder. I have a copy of a letter from Attorney General 
Biddle to Mr. McNutt as the Administrator of the Federal Security 
Agency in which he requests the Federal Security Administrator as 
director of Health, Welfare and Defense, to undertake, in behalf of 
the Department of Justice, the task of facilitating the transfer of 
enemy aliens from areas designated by me, and to relocate and estab- 
lish them in appropriate places and in appropriate activities. 

Mr. Curtis. And that is the principal content of that order? 

Miss Ryder. Yes. There is preliminary, introductory material 
but that is the principal content stating that that is the service of the 
Social Security Board. 

Mr. Curtis. Would you see that we get a copy of that letter for 
our record? It will be inserted in the record, along with your prepared 
statement at this point. 

(The material referred to above is as follows:) 

STATEMENT BY WINIFRED RYDER, DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL AS- 
SISTANCE PROGRAM, SOCIAL SECURITY BOARD, LOS ANGELES, 
CALIF. 

The social assistance program as set up in Los Angeles County followed the 
same pattern as that used throughout the State of California. It originated 
through the designation of the director of region XII of the Social Security 
Board as regional coordinator of defense, health, and welfare services and assign- 
ing to him responsibility for developing and putting into effect plans for the relo- 
cation and reestablishment of the alien groups in certain areas designated by the 
Attorney General of the United States as prohibited areas from which all alien 
enemies be absolutely excluded. The purpose of this program is to provide 
financial assistance and other services, on an emergency basis, to enemy aliens 
and their families whose normal living arrangements have been disrupted as a 
result of residence in areas now prohibited to them. 

Areas 33 through 47 were distributed throughout Los Angeles County and on 
February 9, nine offices located in the United States Employment Service offices 
were opened at the following locahties: Inglewood, Huntington Park, Long 
Beach, Los Angeles, San Pedro, Burbank, Santa Monica, Whittier, and Van 
Nuys. The total number of persons required to register as aliens of enemy 
nationality is unknown, but press reports indicate that it was approximately 
10,000. The number of persons who came to the social assistance offices for 

60396— 42— pt. 31 4 



11662 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

advice, information or financial assistance totaled approximately 1,200. These 
persons presented a variety of problems, but it was evident that concern over 
their status and the locality in which they lived was greater than immediate 
financial need. Of the total number, only 15 families have been given financial 
assistance, and only 36 continuing service of other nature. 

Some cases presented more than one problem, but the following indicates the 
frequency with which certain problems recurred: 

1. Information about prohibited areas 682 

2. Travel information 191 

3. Moving 247 

4. Housing 135 

5. Citizenship status 87 

6. Financial aid (immediate or pending) 70 

7. Employment 70 

8. Property rights 57 

9. Curfew regulation 46 

10. Travel permits 27 

11. Registration information 8 

1 2. Internment 8 

13. Status in armed forces 4 

14. Miscellaneous 116 

A review of these problems points up an outstanding need for clearly defined 
information widely disseminated to persons effected by evacuation order. The 
social workers' contribution to these people was largely that of allaying fears 
and giving specific information. 

The areas from which applications originated indicated that the major portion 
of evacuation problems centered around Los Angeles and San Pedro. In view of 
this, offices at Burbank, Huntington Park, Inglewood, Van Nuys, and Whittier 
were discontinued within 6 days, and inquiries originating from these areas were 
handled in Los Angeles. It seems significant to point out that although two 
densely populated areas — 33 and 36 — were located near Inglewood, that office 
received only 45 applications, none of which requested financial assistance. 

Although it has been generally reported that the largest number of persons 
involved was Japanese, the following nationality distribution is shown in 
applications: 

Japanese 498 

German 392 

Italian 206 

Others and unknown 104 

Of the 498 Japanese, 313 were from Terminal Island, where evacuation included 
removing all members of families. Of the 15 cases given assistance, 7 were from 
Terminal Island. The distribution of applications indicates that most of the 
Japanese involved did not apply for service or assistance and a picture of their 
needs was secured more from their group representatives than from individual 
families. During the first of the program, numerous meetings were held with 
representatives of the Japanese-American Citizens' League, the United Citizens' 
Federation, the Council of Social Agencies' Committee on Immigrant Service, 
and the American Friends Service Committee. In these groups there was re- 
peated expression of need evidenced by Japanese families who were hesitant to 
make application for assistance. It was repeatedly stated that it is characteristic 
of this group to shrink from being known as beggars by their own people. 

The limited information secured does not give a complete picture of the resources 
but some indication of finances. The information on three-fourths of the cases 
shows the following resources available at the time moves were made: 

1. Under $100 (approximately) 410 

2. $100 to $299 (approximately) 190 

3. $300 to $499 (approximately) 160 

4. Over $500 (approximately) 115 

This indicates that although the move created no immediate need for assistance, 
the dislocation caused by it cannot be met b}' the limited resources available to 
most persons forced to move. It is already evident that 69 more applications for 
assistance may be anticipated in a relatively short time. 

Terminal Island serves as an example which brings into focus complications that 
arise in connection with extensive evacuation. Although the exact number of 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11663 

Japanese families on the island was not known it is estimated that prior to the 
declaration of war there were approximately 500 families living there. This 
community of Japanese people had been an isolated group long established and 
occupied almost entirely in fishing and in canning. The first disruption in the 
community came with comparatively large-scale internment of the fishermen. 
On February 15, notices were served on a portion of the island residents advising 
them that the property had been condemned and that they must vacate. These 
notices provided a 30-day period in which to make arrangements. Some families 
immediately began moving and others formulating plans. However, when on 
February 25 final notice to vacate by February 27 midnight was issued many 
famihes were totally unprepared for such rapid movement. The problems that 
were evident were that many had no place to go, others had no means of storing 
or moving household and personal goods and many had no member of the family 
experienced enough to participate in orderly planning. 

Churches, the Japanese-American Citizen League, and the Friends Service 
Committee threw their entire resources into assisting families with orderly plans. 
Temporary shelter was provided in churches, schools, and the American P>iends Serv- 
ice Committee hostel so that when the dead-line date was reached all persons had been 
cleared from the island. The pressure of time brought to hght confusion, fear 
and worry. Personal belongings of value were abandoned. Household efi"ects 
were hurriedly stored in temporary facilities scattered throughout the county. 
At this point, lack of understanding of status was clearly shown. Members of the 
families of interned persons were confused about what resources could be used. 
Families feared separation, others feared the health hazards of congregate care. 
One case is known in which an active case of tuberculosis moved into an over- 
crowded home of relatives. Children and youths were disturbed by being sepa- 
rated from their companions. 

Repeated stories of exploitation were heard but not verified. Two typical 
stories are of a piano valued at $300 which was sold for $25, and a stove and an 
electric refrigerator probably worth several hundred dollars, sold for $25. Nets 
and fishing equipment which could not be handled were in many instances aban- 
doned and are reported to have been picked up by cannery firms. Workers on the 
island during the 48-hour period in which the hurried preparations and moving 
were conducted, all described uncertainty and confusion which dominated the 
picture. This experience indicates that total evacuation brings serious social 
and financial impact if time and sound planning do not precede movement. 



Exhibit A. — Letter From Attorney General Biddle to Hon. Paul V. 

McNuTT 

Department of Justice, 
Office of Attorney General, 
Washington, D. C, January 31, 1942. 
Hon. Paul V. McNutt, 

Administrator, Federal Security Agency, 

Washington, D. C. 

Dear Mr. McNutt: Under authority of regulation 9 of the Presidential proc- 
lamation of December 7 and 8, 1941, the Secretary of War has recommended that 
certain areas be designated by me as prohibited areas from which all alien enemies 
are absolutely excluded. Over 40 areas in California have already been so desig- 
nated, in which a sizable but as yet undetermined number of aliens either live 
or work. Other larger areas along the west coast are to be designated as restricted 
and these restrictions make it difficult to resettle in these locations the persons 
removed from the prohibited areas. 

The Department of Justice is not itself equipped to resettle these alien enemies. 
Resettlement involves processes which are basically associated with the social 
services, including investigation of the needs and means of the aliens affected, 
helping them to obtain appropriate employment, and otherwise assisting those 
who are not able to resettle and reestablish themselves in other locations. 

The operating units of the Federal Security Agency already include many of 
the Federal services which are involved in such an undertaking. As Director of 
the Office of Defense Health and Welfare Services you have been designated to 
coordinate health and welfare services of all departments and agencies of the 
Federal Government, and of other agencies public and private, to meet the needs 
of States and local communities arising from the defense program and make 



11664 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

available to States and localities the services of specialists to assist in the planning 
and execution of State and local programs in the field of health, welfare, and 
related activities. 

I am therefore requesting you as Federal Security Administrator and as Director 
of Defense Health and Welfare Services, to undertake, on behalf of the Depart- 
ment of Justice, the task of facilitating the transfer of alien enemies from areas 
designated by me and to relocate and reestablish such aliens in appropriate places 
and in appropriate activities. If you see fit to accept this responsibility on behalf 
of the Attorney General, you will of course call upon the services of other Federal 
agencies which can contribute to the eS"ectiveness of this migration; my own 
Department stands ready to assist you with its services and authority in any 
operations which you find necessary in carrying forward this assignment. We 
will cooperate with you in making available the lists of names and addresses of the 
persons who are affected by the removal orders which I issue and any other 
appropriate information on file in the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Alien 
Enemy Control Unit, the Immigration and Naturalization Service, or other 
branches of this Department. My agents in the field will similarly make availble 
such information to your designated representatives. 

No money is now available for me to transfer to your agency to accomplish 
this migration. If you are willing to undertake it, I will request the President, 
through the Director of the Bureau of the Budget, to make available to you as 
JFederal Security Administrator, from the emergency fund of the President, such 
moneys as are necessary, for the purposes I have outlined, pending any con- 
gressional appropriation that may prove necessary. 

Many of the alien enemies affected by these plans are now performing functions 
which contribute directly to the success of our American war effort. The proper 
reestablishment of these dislocated aliens is important to certain types of labor 
supply and to the maintenance of our agricultural output. For these reasons it 
is in the interest of the United States that this operation be carried out with the 
smallest possible loss of human resources. 
Sincerely yours, 

Francis Biddle, 

Attorney General. 



Exhibit B. — Proposal by Teachers of the Malaga Cove School 

Palos Verdes School District, 
Palos Verdes Estates, Calif., March 4, 1942. 
Miss Winifred Ryder, 

Offices, Social Security, Los Angeles, Calif. 
Dear Miss Ryder: Until recently, 17 percent of our enrollment has been 
American of the Japanese race. The teachers of the Malaga Cove School have 
been in a position to observe first-hand some of the hardships suffered by these 
people. 

We wish to submit the following proposals and urge their adoption by the 
Federal Government: (1) that loyal Americans of the Japanese race be given 
opportunity to establish their loyalty by whatever procedure deemed acceptable 
by the authorities for Americans born of other enemy races; (2) that loyal Jap- 
anese be given an identification pass or license to continue their work in higher 
education; (3) that the situation be kept as normal as possible for Japanese 
attending local public schools; (4) that loyal Japanese be permitted to share in 
the national defense effort. For the Japanese living in this area such a policy 
would mean that Government aid would be necessary in reestablishing the 
people upon lands suitable for truck farming. 
Very sincerely, 

N. D. Myers, 
Superintendent, Malaga Cove School. 

TESTIMONY OF WINIFRED RYDER— Resumed 

Mr. Curtis. Where is Terminal Island? That is a rather odd 
question for Californians, but I want it for the record. 

Miss Ryder. It is an odd question for Californians. Terminal 
Island is located directly across from San Pedro and is reached either 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11665 

by ferry from San Pedro, or from Wilmington by a highway known as 
Ford Boulevard. It is actually not an island in that it is reached by a 
direct road with a small drawbridge over the water, but it is directly 
opposite San Pedro. 

Mr. Curtis. How large a place is it? 

Miss Ryder. Geographically? 

Mr. Curtis. Yes. 

Miss Ryder. I don't know how many acres it is. I would imagine 
that there are from 3 to 5 acres of land there. The Federal peniten- 
tiary is located there, also canneries and the fishing industry. 

Mr. Curtis. There was an evacuation of certain aliens and other 
people from that island recently, was there not? 

Miss Ryder, Yes. 

Mr. Curtis. Now, if you will proceed in your own way and give a 
brief description of the activities of your office during the recent 
evacuation from Terminal Island or any other place that you have in 
mind. 

evacuation from terminal island 

Miss Ryder. Probably, Terminal Island is more significant from 
the standpoint of being a large-scale, fast evacuation, and it is perhaps 
useful to review some of the things that were evident there so that they 
may serve as a guide in any extensive planning that might be done for 
large-scale migration. 

Mr. Curtis. How many people did you evacuate from there? 

Miss Ryder. Actually, the evacuation was done by people them- 
selves. Our work was only to facilitate it. Originally, there were 
approximately 500 families on the island. 

Mr. Curtis. Of what nationality? 

Miss Ryder. Largely Japanese. The only families with whom we 
had any contact were Japanese families. Probably about 300 of them 
had left the island before the final evacuation order. The origmal 
information which was given to the people on the island had been on 
February 14 when they were issued condemnation orders saymg that 
tliey must leave the island by March 14. From that date to February 
25 there was a constant flow of people off the island, most of whom 
did not ask for any assistance from our agency, either in service or m 
financial assistance. i .n t 

On February 25 there was an order issued and handbills distributed 
to approximately 200 remaming families, giving them until February 
27 as the dead-line date to entirely vacate the island. I thmk .that 
period is significant from the standpomt of the confusion that existed 
because of the pressure of tune. Persons had anticipated plannmg 
their moves with an additional 2-week period, and they were given 
only a 48-hour period. They were totally at a loss to know where to 
go and how to go and how to adjust their affairs to go. _ 

Mr. Curtis. Now, was that an evacuation of 200 families, or 200 
people? 

Miss Ryder. Approximately 200 families. 

Mr. Curtis. In what business were they engaged? 

Miss Ryder. They had, for the most part, been engaged in the 
fishing industry and in canning. Up to that period many of the 
women had continued to work in the canneries. Many of the men 
had been interned previously so that we had the additional problem 



11666 LOS -\XGELES -\XD S-\X FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

of vromen not experienced in making outside contacts and plans with 
children who were faced with the necessity of making the move for 
their entire family. 

HOUSIXG OF EVACrATED FAMILIES 

In the actual process of moving there were very few requests for 
financial assistance; of the families that moved from Terminal 
Island, we have given financial assistance to only seven. But there 
were requests for service in helping to coordinate the resources that 
were available, that the churches and schools and the American 
Friends Service Committee and the other groups who had come in 
to help with coordinating the resources and finding places for persons 
to live. Most of the people were moved into congregate-care type 
of dwellings. 

Mr. Curtis. What do you mean by that? 

Miss Ryder. I mean that they were moved to school halls, into 
churches and into language schools that had been vacated. Aud by 
"congregate care" I mean that they were not living as individual 
families; that there were groups of from 5 to 20 families hving in one 
temporary shelter. 

^ir. Curtis. Are they still living that way? 

Miss Ryder. For the most part, yes. 

Mr. Curtis. Specifically, what do these various organizations^ 
churches, and American Friends Committee do? 

Miss Ryder. Well, in the meetings which I attended and in work- 
ing with the individual workers, they helped by bringing together 
the needs and the resources, helping vriih the Japanese-American Citi- 
zens' League. They organized their voluntary trucks, and they kept 
files of people who needed houses and people who had facilities. The 
job that was done there was primarily getting together the needs 
and the resources. 

Mr. Curtis. Now, from the Federal Social Security Agency, how 
many people did you have assisting you? 

Miss Ryder. How much staff? 

Mr. Curtis. Yes. 

Miss Ryder. Do you mean in Los Angeles County, or on Terminal 
Island? 

Mr. Curtis. On Terminal Island. 

Miss Ryder. Two staff members. 

Mr. Curtis. What did your work consist of? What were you able 
to do for them? 

WORK OF STAFF MEMBERS 

Miss Ryder. Our workers had previously interviewed some of the 
famihes, and at that time interviewed more, indicating to them that 
there was financial assistance available if they needed it. In the 
pressure of the rush the last 2 days, many of them said that they would 
need assistance as soon as they were at the new location, but that the 
pressure of time was so great then they couldn't even give the neces- 
sary information to indicate what their need was. Our workers 
worked with the voluntary agencies on the island in helping to co- 
ordinate the planning, as much planning as could be done under that 
terrific pressure. 



XATIOXAL DEFZXSE MIGRATION 11667 

Mr. CiTBTis. Was there anv evidence during the evacuation from 
Terminal Island of cases of individuals preying upon the Japanese by 
buving up their belongings at distress prices? Do you have any 
information on that? 

DISTRESS SALES 

Miss Rtdee. I have no verified stories. There were people who 
talked to our workers who told of selling three-and-four-hundred- 
doUar pianos for 5 and 10 doUars. and of selling new refrigerators and 
new stoves for small amounts. 

Mr. Curtis. How much? 

Miss Rtdee. From 10 to 25 dollars. Actually, none of those have 
been verified but the persons who had the goods did tell to our workers 
stories ol having sacrificed these things. They did it at a time when 
they felt that they must capitalize on every possible resource in order 
to have money enough to move. 

Mr. Cet.tis. "Were these people all aliens, or were some of them. 
citizen Japanese? 

Miss Rtdee. In practically every family, there were many citizen 
members. 

Mr. CiTETis. Tou state that you have not been able to verify these 
actual transactions, but do you. sitting as your own judge and with 
your own source of information, beheve that those things did happen? 

Miss Rtdee. Yes: I beheve that they did happen. I can't say 
how extensively they happened. That would be the thing that I 
would not feel qualified to say. but I feel that the source of the infor- 
mation as a person talking directly to our workers, is a reasonable, 
sound source to indicate that they did happen. 

Mr. Citetis. You might be interested in knowing that one of the 
first recommendations made by this committee was that there be a|>- 
pointed an ahen property custodian, naturally with subordinates, to 
reach on down into the various communities so that the property of 
these people may be preserved to the fullest extent. There will be 
some loss, there is no question about that. 

pbopebtt abaxdoxed bt evacttees 

Miss Rtdee. I think in that connection it is significant to mention 
not only the things that might have been lost through sacrifice, but 
the things that were actually abandoned because there wasn't time to 
move them. One of our workers who was on the island the day after 
the evacuation said that fishing nets, fishing trucks, rubber boots, 
household goods, and all kinds of equipment, enough to fill at least 
eisht trucks, had been abandoned, because there was no time to get 
it moved and there was no additional agency existing at that time, no 
property custodian, to whom the care of that property could be 
assismed. 

Mr. Crr.Tis. >sow. if these people are eventually moved to some 
point where they are going to try to have them carry on and be self- 
sustaining again, these articles that they lost will perhaps have to be 
replaced at pubhc expense. Is that true? 

Miss Rtdee. Undoubtedly, if a person's entire resources are gone 
and he has no other means of reestabhshing himself, it would be neces- 
sarv to replace the things which he has lost, particularly when they are 



11668 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

fundamentals of housekeeping, such as beds and tables and chairs and 
stoves, 

Mr. Curtis. The point I wanted to make is that it is not a question 
of someone's love or hate or like or dislike for any particular people, 
but unless these things are taken care of, it is the public's financial loss 
because many of the things are the things they need; isn't that right? 

Miss Ryder. And I think that we may add an additional statement 
there that many of the things are irreplaceable. Many of the things 
are metal and things that are not so easily replaced at the present 
time; that that value would be lost in their being abandoned. 

Mr. Curtis. Do you have any knowledge of the disposition of 
Japanese-owned boats on Terminal Island? 

Miss Ryder. No. 

Mr. Curtis. You have mentioned your offers of financial assistance 
to these people. That becomes more acute in an ill-planned evacua- 
tion than in a well-planned one; isn't that true? 

Miss Ryder. Undoubtedly; because the loss of the individual is 
much greater in an ill-planned one. 

And we have pointed out in this Terminal Island description, that 
even the evacuee's need for the personal property he lost would in 
itself be a need for financial assistance. 

experience gained at TERMINAL ISLAND 

Mr. Curtis. Do you have any other suggestions that you would like 
to make to this committee that they might carry back to Congress, on 
phases of this program that need additional attention? 

Miss Ryder. Yes. I think that there are several things in addition 
that I feel we can learn from this more or less miniature migration, or 
evacuation, that might be helpful if and when there is a larger one. 
I think that we can begin with the number of applicants who came 
to our office for things other than financial assistance. 

During the period from February 9 to March 5, when we had offices 
throughout the county, there have been approximately 1,200 people 
who have come to them asking some service. The major portion of 
those requests was for information about prohibited areas, travel 
permits, 'citizenship status, and the status of citizens in relation to a 
noncitizen member of the family. From that we can learn that one 
of the first things in any program should be to see that it is clearly 
defined and the information concerning it thorouglily and com- 
pletely disseminated. That was very significant to me. 

Even people who had no need for financial assistance or even for 
planning for their moves, people who were well established and able 
to do everything, were still confused and uncertain about the definition 
of the prohibited areas and how it aft'ected them. So that will be one 
thing that I feel we should learn from this program. 

Another thing is that although the requests for financial assistance 
have been very limited — out of that 1,200 we have actually given relief 
to only 15 families — the information which we received indicates that 
the greatest impact is not going to be at the time of the move while the 
individual still has some resources, but that it is going to result from 
the dislocation of being detached from his source of income. For the 
most part, the resources are too limited to carry on for any length 
of time. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11669 

If you feel it is significant, I can give you some indication of what 
those actual resources were. In over one-fourth of the cases the 
resources the people had were less than $100. They didn't need 
assistance at the time of that immediate move. It isn't hard to see 
how soon it would be necessary; only one-twelfth of them had over 
$500. So I think that we can learn something of the planning that is 
necessary to carry the dislocation that results from a move. 

ASSISTANCE UNDER SOCIAL SECURITY ACT 

Mr. Curtis. Wliat types of normal assistance under the Social 
Security Act are available to aliens? 

Miss Ryder. You mean in the categorical aids? 

Mr. Curtis. Yes. 

Miss Ryder. Of course, some States require citizenship and some 
do not. California does require citizenship for aid to the aged. It 
does not require it in connection with the actual child, in the aid to 
dependent children. As yet internment has not been accepted as the 
equivalent of imprisonment in relation to the aid to needy children. 

Mr. Curtis. That is a State interpretation of that aid to needy 
children? That is a matter determined by the State or Federal 
Government as to who would be classified in the category of being 
imprisoned? 

Miss Ryder. The total administration is on the basis of the State 
plan within the framework of the Social Security Act. I think that 
it would probably eventually be determmed by the Board as such, 
but at this point it has still not been even considered in relation to 
the State plan. The State could, if it wished to, within its own plan 
for aid to needy children, consider internment and imprisonment, I 
am sure. 

Mr. Curtis. You don't know whether a similar situation prevails 
in Oregon and Washington? 

Miss Ryder. Of course, I think in both of those States aid to the 
aged is not on the citizenship basis. The act itself does not require 
citizenship in the administration of any of the categorical provisions 
for relief. \Vlierever citizenship is required, it is entirely on the basis 
of the State's own plan. 

Mr. Bender. Miss Ryder, in connection with this proposed evacua- 
tion, has your organization given any study to mass evacuation? 

Miss Ryder. I am not in a position to know. I have been working 
in Los Angeles County during this entire period and any planning that 
has been done has been done ui the regional office, through the re- 
gional director. . i t i 

Mr. Bender. You described. Miss Ryder, this Termmal Island 
evacuation as a miniture evacuation. How long did you say it took 
from the time the first order was issued until all of the families were 
finally evacuated? 

TWO EVACUATION ORDERS 

Miss Ryder. There being two orders, we will have to differentiate. 
Mr. Bender, The first order. 

Miss Ryder. The first order was issued either the 14th or 15th 
of February, giving 30 days. The first notices of second order were 



11670 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

posted on the island at 3 o'clock on February 25, with a deadline of 
midnight, February 27. 

Mr. Bender. That is, they were out by the 27th? 

Miss Ryder. By midnight of the 27th they were out. 

Mr. Bender. And you say there was considerable confusion 
accompanying that evacuation? 

Miss Ryder. Definitely there was confusion. There was confusion 
of phj^sical facilities and there was confusion of persons worrying and 
concerned about where they were going. There was definitely 
personal confusion as well as physical confusion. 

Mr. Bender. Were you here this morning, Miss Ryder? 

Miss Ryder. Yes. 

Mr. Bender. Did you hear the mayor and the Governor give 
their statements regarding this evacuation and their opinions ex- 
pressed as to their belief that this would be an orderly and proper 
procedure and all the agencies would cooperate? Do you feel that 
it would be as simple as is generally indicated from what you have 
read and what you have seen and what has been testified to this 
morning? 

SIMPLICITY DEPENDENT UPON PREPLANNING 

Miss Ryder. Well, I thinlv on the basis of our experience, that 
simplicity depends entirely on preplanning on a sufficiently compre- 
hensive scale to recognize, before they happen, all the problems 
that will be involved. 

Mr. Bender. Have you any idea as to how long a period should 
be had before the final order comes, as it did on February 27 in the 
matter of Terminal Island? 

IMiss Ryder. No. But I could say on the basis of that, that it 
takes more than 48 hours for 200 families to move a short distance. 
I think it is easy to deduce if you are going to move a long distance 
that time is more important. 

You could make temporaiy plans for storage. There are goods 
stored in temporary quarters; but for a long move, connecting the 
individual and his goods would be practically impossible. 

Mr. Bender. Have you any idea as to the number of businesses 
and professions, the kind of work, for example, the Japanese aliens 
and the Italian and German aliens are doing? 

Miss Ryder. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Bender. But it would be a somewhat different problem than 
where you had the 200 families engaged in fishing and canning — 
in one occupation? 

Miss Ryder. Not entirely engaged in one occupation because, of 
course, there were business and professional men that would be 
attached to any commmiity. There were dentists and doctors and 
businessmen on the island, but not to any great extent, not as much 
as there would be in a large community. The major portion of your 
community there was connected with one industry. i. i 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you. Miss Ryder. We appreciate very much 
your testimony. 

Mr. Ryan. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11671 

TESTIMONY OF HAROLD J. RYAN, COMMISSIONER OF AGRICUL- 
TURE, LOS ANGELES COUNTY, CALIF. 

Mr. Arnold. Will you be seated and give the reporter your full 
name, title, and address? 

Mr. Ryan. Harold J. Ryan, county agricultural commissioner, 
524 North Spring Street, Los Angeles, Calif. 

Mr. Arnold. The agricultural production survey of the county of 
Los Angeles, which you prepared, Mr. Ryan, has been received for the 
record. The study shows that in Los Angeles County many crops are 
grown exclusively or predominantly by the Japanese. Will you give 
the committee a brief summary of your findings? 

(Data referred to above are as follows:) 

JAPANESE AGRICULTURAL DATA FOR LOS ANGELES COUNTY 
SUBMITTED BY HAROLD J. RYAN, COMMISSIONER OF AGRICUL- 
TURE, LOS ANGELES COUNTY, CALIF. 

Number of farms and acreage of Japanese farmers by nativity and annual labor 
requirements of Japanese farmers in Los Angeles County ^ 

Number of farms: 

Native-born operators operators. _ 629 

Foreign-born operators do 573 

Total do-— 1,202 

Native-born operators farms. . 757 

Foreign-born operators do 634 

Total do 1,391 

Acreage farmed: ,r ,i,o 

Native-born operators land-acres.. 15, 153 

Foreign-born operators do 10, 892 

Total do_..- 26,045 

Labor requirements: 

Outside .. -- man-months-. 29,533 

Home-.v:::::::::::: do—. 44,098 

Total do--.. 73,631 

> As of Feb. 5, 1942. 



11672 



LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



Japanese farm operators and crop acreage by major crop, Los Angeles County^ 
Number of farmers, 1,202; number of farms, 1,391; land-acres, 26,045 





Nisei 

in 
charge 

of 
farm 


Alien in charge of 
farm 


Total 

acres, 

alien 

in charge 






Nisei on 
farm 21 
years old 
or older 


No nisei 

on farm 

or less 

than 21 

years 


Total 
crop, 
acres 


Cabbage 2 


1,623 

1, 405 

60 

1, 368 

1,289 

181 

359 

1,127 

1,414 

914 

95 

324 

412 

40 


482 
305 
1 
642 
465 

48 
101 
146 
293 
180 

70 
150 

74 

21 


750 
576 

20 
1,132 
745 
221 
267 
261 
707 
233 

67 
186 
182 

41 


1,232 

881 

21 

1,774 

1,210 
269 
368 
407 

1,000 
413 
137 
336 
256 
62 


2,855 


Cauliflower 2 


2, 346 


Broccoli - . 


81 


Green beans 2 (including limas) 


3.142 


Celery 2 


2,499 


Peas 2 


450 


Spinach 2 


727 


Carrots - 


1, 534 


Tomatoes 2 . 


2,414 


Onions 2 . _ 


1,327 


Lettuce 


232 


Cantaloupes 


660 


Squash 2 . . 


668 


Asparae^us 


102 






Sweet corn.. . 


23 

24 




15 
13 


15 
13 


38 


Potatoes 




37 








Miscellaneous . ■ 


6,955 


1,144 


1,997 


3,141 


10, 096 






Total . 


17, 673 
4,507 


4,122 
992 


7,413 
1,544 


11,535 
2,536 


29,208 


Adjustment estimate. .. . 


7,043 






Grand total . . 


22,180 

629 

757 

1,047 


5,114 
222 
247 
412 


8,957 
351 
387 
690 


14, 071 

573 

634 

1,102 


3 36, 251 




1,202 


Number farms 


1,391 


Number aliens 


2,149 







1 Survey as of Feb. 11, 1942. 

2 Total acres for these crops: others entered where 10 acres or more on farm, otherwise in miscellaneous. 
' Total land acreaee on which these crops are grown is given as 20,045, giving an average of one and one-half 

crops per year for all land. 

Tentative 1941 crop acreage estimates in Los Angeles County ^ 



Commodity 



Total 
acreage 



Percent 
Japanese 



Acres- 
Japanese 



Truck crops: 

Asparagus 

Beans: 

Lima. 

Snap 

Cabbage 

Cantaloupes 

Carrots 

Cauliflower. 

Celery: 

White 

Green. 

Corn, Green 

Cucumbers: 

Pickles 

Table-.. 

Endive (chicory) 

Lettuce 

Melons (others) 

Onions, dry 

Peas. 

Peppers, chili, dried 
Potatoes: 

Sweet 

White 

Rhubarb 

Spinach, market 

Squash, winter 

1 As of Feb. 11, 1942. 



1,650 



25 



2,000 


90 


1,800 


2,100 


95 


1,995 


3,750 


75 


2,813 


1,500 


40 


600 


3,950 


75 


2,963 


4,200 


90 


3,780 


450 


99 


446 


2,500 


99 


2,475 


5,300 


16 


795 


625 


80 


500 


575 


90 


518 


700 


75 


525 


1,175 


90 


1,071 


325 


80 


260 


725 


40 


290 


700 


99 


693 


1,000 


99 


990 


725 


25 


181 


1,350 


10 


135 


450 


25 


113 


1,300 


99 


1,287 


725 


10 


73 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11673 

Tentative 1941 crop acreage estimates in Los Angeles County — Continued 



Commodity 



Total 


Percent 


A ores- 


acreage 


Japanese 


Japanese 


[ 7, 500 


60 


4,500 


200 


10 


20 


45, 475 


64 


29,235 


750 


99 


743 


685 


99 


678 


43 


90 


39 


175 


95 


166 


335 


90 


302 


225 


50 


113 


215 


75 


161 


150 


90 


135 


510 


99 


505 


625 


90 


473 


250 


25 


63 


325 


90 


293 


450 


90 


405 


725 


95 


689 


1,000 


80 


800 


6,363 


87 


5,565 


100 


90 


90 


25 


90 


23 


250 


90 


230 


1,025 


95 


974 


825 


60 


495 


2,225 


81 


1,792 


54, 063 


68 


36, 592 



Truck crops — Continued. 
Tomatoes: 

Canning -- 

Market 

Watermelons 



Total. 



Market gardens: 

Beets, table 

Broccoli 

Egg plant 

Mustard, greens. 

Onions, green 

Parsley 

Parsnips 

Peppers, bell 

Eadishes- --- 

Romaine 

Rutabaga 

Squash, Italian. - 
Squash, summer- 
Turnips 

Miscellaneous 



Total. 



Bushberries and strawberries: 

Blackberries 

Loganberries 

Raspberries 

Strawberries 

Youngberries and Boysenberries. 



Total 

Total truck crops, market gardens, and berries. 



PRESS RELEASE ANNOUNCING THE CREATION OF THE OFFICE OF 
AGRICULTURAL COORDINATOR FOR LOS ANGELES COUNTY 

Los Angeles, Calif., February 20, 1942. — W. S. Rosecrans, just appointed 
to the office of Agricultural Coordinator for the Los Angeles County Defense 
Council, announces that offices will be opened at 808 North Spring Street on 
Tuesday, February 24, and describes the functions of the office as being princi- 
pally to provide for the continuity of farm production in Los Angeles County. 
The policies have been worked out by the agricultural resources and production 
committee of the county defense council, whose chairman is Harold J. Ryan, 
county agricultural commissioner, in cooperation with Mr. Rosecrans, and have 
been approved by Eugene W. Biscailuz, chairman, and Harold W. Kennedy, 
executive director, of the Los Angeles County Defense Council. 

Mr. Rosecrans continues: The immediate objective is to meet conditions inci- 
dent to the discontinuance of farm operation by Japanese. The office is concerned 
with the maintenance of the production of essential foods and particularly with 
vegetable production. The services, however, will also apply to other farm 
operations vacated by Japanese, including livestock and poultry operations. 

To accomplish this purpose it is proposed to create a clearing house whereby 
owners or lessors of vacated lands may be brought into contact with prospective 
farmers competent to operate these lands. In this connection, the office will also 
collect and disseminate pertinent information helpful to its objectives. The 
Coordinator will solicit the active assistance of competent cooperating agencies 
such as the State department of agriculture, the college of agriculture, the alien 
coordinator, etc. 

The office is not concerned with the problem of what Japanese shall leave the 
land, nor will it act as a custodian or conservator of Japanese property but its 
services will be available to a conservator or custodian of Japanese properties, 
who we anticipate will be appointed by the Federal Government to assist them 
in their problems. 



11674 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Rosecrans stated that there have been gratuitous statements appearing in 
the press that the purpose of this office was to replace Japanese by white farmers. 
There is absolutely no authority, Rosecrans said, for such a statement. 'The 
purpose of the office is to replace Japanese farmers who have vacated land by 
farmers of known loyalty regardless of race or color. 

TESTIMONY OF HAROLD J. RYAN— Resumed 

Mr. Ryan. I have here a 1-page statement that summarizes 
many of those figures and I could give it to you now for insertion in 
the record or read it. 

Air. Arnold. Why don't you read it? 

Mr. Ryan. This is information developed from the survey of land 
farmed by Japanese in Los Angeles County. 

There are in Los Angeles County approximately 2,000 farm prop- 
erties including ornamental-plant nurseries operated by persons of 
Japanese lineage. This figure is developed from a farm survey con- 
ducted in January 1942 by inspectors of the county agricultural 
commissioner's ofiice and other sources as follows: 

Survey figures 

Vegetable farms (including berries and alfalfa) 1, 391 

Cut-flower farms 90 

Others (including some livestock) 57 

Total 1,538 

Figures furnished by Dr. L. M. Hurt, county livestock inspector: 

Livestock farms 82 

Estimated number of those not included in survey 50 

Nurseries listed by agricultural commissioner's office under Japanese 

names 408 

Total farms and nurseries 2, 078 

Exclusive of cut flowers and livestock farms and nurseries 26,045 
acres of land are farmed by Japanese. The vegetable and berry crop 
acreage grown in 1941 on this land totals 36,250 acres, more than one 
crop per year being farmed on part of the ground. 

Information given agricultural inspectors by farm operators showed 
a population of 6,980 Japanese on the farms; of those, 2,259 were 
aliens and 4,721 were Nisei (American born). The complete survey 
of vegetable and berry farms enumerated 2,149 alien Japanese. The 
enumeration of 110 additional aliens on other farms incidentally 
surveyed is an incomplete figure for these farms. 

The Federal census of 1940 shows for the country 10,883 farms of 
white operators and 1 ,592 farms of nonwhite operators. 

Labor used on the vegetable and berry farms, according to the farm- 
ers interviewed, totaled 73,631 man-months per year. Of this total, 
44,098 man-months were home labor supplied by the families or per- 
sons living on the farms. Labor hired from the outside amounted 
to 29,533 man-months. Of this latter, some is Mexican and some 
Filipino. A total of perhaps 60,000 man-months' labor is Japanese. 

Independent of this survey an annual estimate of crop production 
in the county is made by the oflSce of agricultural commissioner. 
The estimate for the year 1941 shows vegetable and berry crop acreage 
of 54,060 acres. The percent of acreage of each crop grown by 
Japanese has been estimated at 68 percent and totals approximately 
36,600 acres. Of the 45,457 acres of truck crops 29,200 acres (64 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11675 

percent) were grown by Japanese. They farmed 87 percent or 5,565 
acres of the 6,360 acres devoted to market garden crops (distinguished 
from truck crops by the fact that they are grown on smaller acreages 
usually for local markets). Japanese grew berries on 1,790 acres 
(81 percent) of the total acreage of 2,225 in the county. 

Mr. Arnold. Those figures are very interesting. The committee 
has heard that, as a result of the present uncertainty, many Japanese 
farmers have not planted their normal acreages and are not taking 
the usual care of those planted. Is it true according to your in- 
formation? 

Mr. Ryan. That changes from day to day. Whether it is correct 
to say that it is true to a great extent, I am not able to say. It 
certainly is true in a number of instances. 

Mr. Arnold. Could you indicate what the effect will be on the 
vegetable deliveries during the coming month, or would that be hard 
to estimate? 

EVACUATION WILL MEAN TEMPORARY SHORTAGE OF VEGETABLES 

Mr. Ryan. It would be hard to estimate in figures but it will cer- 
tainly mean a temporary shortage of vegetables. There are some 
cases today where they are harvesting crops 2 and 3 weeks ahead of 
the normal harvesting time for fear, apparently, that they are not 
going to get any return if they wait another 2 weeks to normal harvest 
time to bring it in. 

Mr. Arnold. What crops are those? 

Mr. Ryan. Celery, romaine, and in some cases carrots. 

Mr. Arnold. Have prices of agricultural commodities already 
been affected? 

Mr. Ryan. Yes. There has been an increase in some and in the 
last couple of days decreases in some because of that hurried har- 
vesting. 

Mr. Arnold. That will undoubtedly mean higher prices later on. 

Mr. Ryan. Temporarily, yes. 

Mr. Arnold. Have you any information as to the falling off in 
seed and fertilizer sales during the present season? 

Mr. Ryan. No. ^ 

CHANGE TO MASS-PRODUCTION CROPS 

Mr. Arnold. The committee has heard that if the Japanese are 
evacuated from Los Angeles County farm land, the character of agri- 
cultural production will change, and that land now used for intensive 
vegetable growing will be put into mass-production crops. Do you 
agree with that? 

Mr. Ryan. What do you mean by "mass production crops"? 

Mr. Arnold. Well, crops that don't require so much hand work. 

Mr. Ryan. I think there is very likely to be a shift from crops like 
strawberries and radishes and some of the root crops grown on small 
acreages, to larger acreages in the same crops or crops of greater food 
value; specifically, things like squash and carrots and tomatoes, that 
can be and are now grown on large scale by American farmers and 
where machinery can be used for large-scale production. Some of 
that shift may go out of the county. 



11676 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Arnold. Is it true that a great deal of the acreage now used by- 
Japanese cannot be profitably farmed by white growers? 

Mr. Ryan. I think it is true that some of it cannot be. No; 
I wouldn't say that it is true that a great deal cannot be. 

Mr. Bender. Why is that? 

Mr. Ryan. Well, I say that because there is a noticeable increase in 
machine farming in the last couple of years by Japanese. 

In the course of that survey, somewhat to our surprise, it developed 
that there were a number of tractors, less than 2 years old, on Japanese 
farms, indicating that either because of labor shortage or anticipated 
shortage, the Japanese were machine farming in many cases where 
before it was all hand labor. If they go to machine farming your 
American farmer could compete successfully on the same basis. 

Mr. Arnold. Of course, this committee has found that to be true 
the country over — the sale of farm machinery has greatly increased. 
I suppose in anticipation of a shortage in labor and also in anticipa- 
tion that it will be harder to get farm machinery and the prices will 
be higher. 

Mr. Ryan. It seems to be a little unusual and striking to me in the 
case of those small farms that previously did all of the work Avdth 
hand labor. 

IRRIGATED FARMING REQUIRES EXPERIENCE 

Mr. Arnold. W^iat has been the experience of middle western 
farmers on irrigated land in California? We are all from the Middle 
West and we want to know what their experiences have been. 

Mr, Ryan. Well, they have got to learn a new type of farming 
when they come here. Irrigated farming is altogether different from 
Middle Western farming. When they come here, as farmers, and 
have an opportunity to learn how to farm under California conditions 
they make successful farmers but they have got to learn it. 

Mr. Arnold. My experience has been that that same thing applies 
to those Middle Western farmers who go into the South and try to 
raise cotton. 

Mr. Ryan. I would presume so. 

Mr. Arnold. They just' don't know how to do it and many of 
them go broke. Do they go broke out here before they find out how 
to farm? 

Mr. Ryan. I can't answer that. I don't Imow of any individual 
instances of their having come in and gone broke. 

IVIr. Arnold. Is that because they don't know how to farm or they 
don't know how to buy? 

Mr. Ryan. Well, you might put the emphasis on the latter part 
of it. 

Mr. Arnold. Do you anticipate any difficulty in securmg farm 
labor to replace evacuated Japanese growers? 

untapped sources of farm labor 

Mr. Ryan. Yes; because the problem of agricultural labor supply 
is a tremendous national problem. We are only a part of that pic- 
ture here. Let me add this: There is unquestionably a large source 
of agricultural labor supply here that hasn't been tapped yet. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11677 

Mr. Arnold. ^ATiere is that supply? 

Mr. Ryan. In the city, some of it, some of it in the schools, some 
of it among- the feminine population. 

Mr. Arnold. Do you still have any of the Okies looking for work? 

Mr. Ryan. They say there are a number of those people here who 
have proven themselves as successful workmen, who have gained 
experience during the past 2 or 3 years, who are now competent to 
go into farming on their own here. I believe that statement to be 
correct. 

Mr. Arnold. It might be a solution to some of your difficulty. 

Mr. Ryan. We think so; yes. 

Mr. Arnold. Speaking of the change in the character of crops that 
might take place, do you think this change might be permanent? It 
has been suggested to the committee that with the invention of the 
quick-freeze method of storing vegetables, the major markets wiU 
progressively depend less on the production in this area. Do you 
think the evacuation of the Japanese will hasten this development, 
and if so how will it affect the land values in the county? 

Mr. Ryan. I think evacuation of the Japanese will hasten that 
development. Land values in the county are going to be affected as 
they have been in the past few years by so many other factors, such 
as the shift from farmed areas to industrial and metropolitan areas, 
that I don't think any one factor alone such as that can oft'er the 
answer. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much, Mr. Ryan. Your testimony 
has bee;i very interesting and a valuable contribution to the record. 
We will take a short recess. 

(Short recess.) 

Mr. Arnold. The committee will come to order. Is Mr. Ryan 
still here? I just wanted to develop in a short period of time the pro- 
spective reservoir for farm labor among school children and perhaps 
among the women of the county. 

organization of school labor 

Mr. Ryan. Well, I don't know how many thousand school children 
we have of an age that makes them entirely fit physically and mentally 
to go out and do some of the work that a good many of us did when we 
we were children. There is certainly a tremendous reservoir available 
there that could be used, and should be used, in my opinion, for their 
benefit and for the benefit of the farm industry and the nation as a 
whole during the war period. 

They can be organized into small battalions of 10 or 12 under proper 
leadership from agricultural teachers in the schools and others such 
as the Boy Scout groups, and be used in the field for emergency work, 
such as weeding and harvesting. They won't make the best labor in 
the world but they will make willing labor; they are anxious to be used 
and they are not being utilized now in the civilian defense program. 

Mr. Arnold. Is some change in legislation needed in the State 
legislature? 

Mr. Rf AN. I understand there is some change necessary, yes. 

Mr. Arnold. Has the legislature refused to make that change? 

Mr. Ryan. I can't answer that. I don't know. We have had a 
number of offers from women representing different women's groups, 

60396 — 42 — pt. 31 5 



11678 LOS ANGELES AXD S.\X FR.\XCISCO HEARINGS 

oflFering to organize labor battalions of women to be used on the farm 
for operation, such as I have described, and I believe that there is 
available a healthy and usable reservoir that should be dra%\Ti upon. 

Mr. Arnold. You feel that perhaps v\"ith that sort of effort being 
expended in this county and State that the farming of all land could 
go ahead vrith. satisfactory results? 

Mr. Ryan. It can go ahead with satisfactory results granting a 
short period of readjustment. 

TIME ELEMENT IN TRANSFER OF OPERATIONS 

Our prime problem at present is to get the American farmer on the 
land in a manner that is just to the evacuated Japanese but get him 
on ciuickly. because we are in the middle of the planting season and 
we need to continue \nth the crops that are now in the ground; we 
need to get new crops in the ground quickly. We can't wait until 
midsummer to grow a crop for harvest in the fall. It has got to be 
planted now. That is particularly true of tomatoes and some of 
those more important crops. 

Mr. Arnold. Do you say that the planting of crops has gone on 
about normally up to now? 

Mr. Ryan. I have got to say "more or less." In case of some crops 
in some areas, apparently it has gone right ahead. In the case of other 
crops and other areas, there has been a definite checking of planting, 
and particularly since the last order indicating that the removal might 
be effective inside of 60 days. There has been a tendency, definitely, 
to stop planting or harvesting crops too quickly because of the fear 
on the part of the Japanese that he will lose the money and the effort 
that he has put into the planting of his crop. There is definitely the 
need of a custodianship or trusteeship to take care of that transi- 
tion, and to take care of the equity rights and the property rights of the 
Japanese so that he can go ahead continuing with the farming opera- 
tion until a change comes, assuring him that he is going to get back a 
proper share of the proceeds. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much. 

Now, I wish to call several witnesses. Will sit from left to right, 
in the order that 3^our names are called: Mr. W. S. Rosecrans; Mr. 
Howard B. Miller; E. W. Biscailuz; and Mr. McDonougb. 

TESTIMONY OF W. S. ROSECRANS, AGRICULTURAL CO-ORDI- 
NATOR, LOS ANGELES COUNTY DEFENSE COUNCIL; HOWARD 
B. MILLER, MANAGER, AGRICULTURAL DEPARTMENT, LOS 
ANGELES CHAMBER OF COMMERCE; E. W. BISCAILUZ, CHAIR- 
MAN, LOS ANGELES COUNTY DEFENSE COUNCIL; AND GOR- 
DON M. Mcdonough, supervisor, county of los angeles 

Mr. Arnold. Mr. Biscailuz, you are chairman of the Los Angeles 
County Defense Council? 

Mr. Biscailuz. I am, sir. 

Mr. Curtis. Will you give to the reporter the official position of 
these other gentlemen? 

Mr. Biscailuz. Mr. Gordon McDonough is a member of the Board 
of Supervisors of Los Angeles Count5^ The board of supervisors here 



XATIOXAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11679 

are in charge, you might say, of the functions of government in Los 
Angeles County, just as a council would be in a city, in Los Angeles 
County or in any other jurisdiction. 

Mr. Miller is of the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce, and Mr. 
Rosecrans is the past president of the Los Angeles Chamber of Com- 
merce, and also, for some time, the head of the Farm Bureau of Los 
Angeles. 

Mr. Curtis. Mr. McDonough? 

Mr. McDoxouGH. Yes. 

Mr. Curtis. I understand that you were chairman of the. subcom- 
mittee \vhich drafted the resolution on alien control adopted by the 
Los Angeles County Defense Coimcil. 

Mr. McDoxouGH. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Curtis. Will you please outline the essential features of this 
resolution and indicate the considerations imderlying its adoption? 

Mr. McDoxouGH. I would like to file for the record a copy of the 
resolution. 

Mr. Curtis. We will be glad to have it. 

Mr. McDoxouGH. I will file it here. 

Mr. Curtis. Now, in your own words, just enumerate the points 
in the resolution. 

EESOLUTIOX ox ALIEX COXTROL 

Mr. McDoxouGH. The committee was appointed by the chahman 
of the Civilian Defense Council, Mr. Biscailuz, and had two sessions, 
at which they finally drafted into rather concise and brief terms the 
situation as we saw it concerning the Los Angeles County enemy alien 
situation. The resolution comprehends the situation not only insofar 
as Japanese are concerned, but German and Italian. 

^Ir. Curtis. Does it deal with Japanese citizens as well as aliens? 

Air. McDoxouGH. Yes. Briefly, it contemplates the need of 
immediate removal from the six most western States of the enemy 
aliens, so-called, including all classifications. 

The committee believes, and it is stated in the resolution, that this 
is not onl\- a protection to the enemy alien, but it is also an added 
protection to the American citizens in that area. We are fearful that 
sabotage may be performed and committed in that area and we don't 
want a repetition of a surprise attack such as the Pearl Harbor attack. 

WOULD REMOVE JAPAXESE BEYOXD THE SIX WESTERX STATES 

The Japanese, American born, are considered in the resolution in 
this way: that we asked the Federal Government to remove the 
eneni}^ aliens to an area bcA'ond the six Western States, that the rela- 
tives of the enemy aliens who are American-born Japanese are in- 
vited to join their relatives outside of that area. If they go to the 
area where their relatives are placed by the Federal Government, we 
consider them interned in that area for the duration and they should 
not be permitted to come back into the restricted area during the 
war period. 

We have considered and realized the limitation of the committee in 
dealing with the American citizens of Japanese descent from a con- 
stitutional point of view and we are seeking to overcome that by in- 



11680 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

viting them to participate in the war effort here by joining their rela- 
tives outside of the prescribed areas. 

Since this resolution has been drafted — and incidentally, a copy of 
it was sent to the Senators from this State, and all of the Congress- 
men from this State — the War Department has set up two areas: 
one, as the committee knows, a restricted area, and one a prohibited 
area. These areas don't extend east as far as we believe they should 
in this resolution because we tliinlv that we are dealing with a rather 
ruthless enemy. We should be as considerate as possible of those 
who are of Japanese, Italian, or German descent, but if this is total 
war, we should deal with them accordingly. 

The contents of the resolution are more terse than I have stated 
them and I would like to have the committee look the resolution over 
and get its full contents. 

Mr. Curtis. We shall be glad to receive it in its entirety because 
we know that it has a direct bearing on the matter into which we 
are inquirmg. 

WOULD PROVIDE FOR OATH OF LOYALTY 

Mr. McDoNOUGH. That is one point that I would like to mention. 
In this area of internment beyond the six Western States, those who 
may be, by circumstances or declared loyalty, permitted to remain 
within the restricted area, we believe should take an oath of loyalty 
to the United States. They should prove by their employment or 
income which will make them self-supporting while they were in the 
restricted area, or they should produce a certificate from their em- 
ployers as to their good character, and from well-known citizens, if 
not employed. There are, we certainly believe, the economic dis- 
locations that would be caused by such a migration; there are those 
who perhaps should remain within the restricted area, but they 
should be clothed with every precaution against possible danger of 
being suspicioned as those identified with any sabotage or with any 
danger to the war effort of the United States. 

Mr. Curtis. Why did you choose six States? 

Mr. McDoNOUGH. Well, we took that as an approximate area far 
enough inland to protect the coastal area and the defense industries 
within the coastal area. 

Mr. Curtis. Which six did you include? 

Mr. McDoNOUGH. California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Idaho, 
and Montana. The resolution doesn't specify the States. It says, 
''The six most Western States." 

Mr. Curtis. There would be no particular reason why Montana 
should receive more drastic action than, perhaps. New Mexico? 

Mr. McDoNOUGH. That is right. Or Arizona. Arizona, possibly, 
would be more important that Montana. 

Mr. Curtis. Mr. Miller, we heard today that the current uncer- 
tainty has already resulted in prospective shortages of certain crops 
and that, with evacuation, further disruption will undoubtedly come 
about. Could you indicate briefly what the effect of this will be in 
the local community? 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11681 

DISRUPTION or FARMING OPERATIONS 

Mr. Miller. The effect, as near as can be estimated, will probably 
be a shortage of what you might call certain relish crops, those in- 
dicated by Mr. Eyan, such as green onions and table beets, and parsley, 
and crops of that nature which are very largely grown by Japanese and 
which are not particularly adapted to a little dift'erent type of farming 
which the American farmers are engaged in. 

The essential supplies of the more important vegetable crops, such 
as lettuce, tomatoes, cauliflower, cabbage, will not be appreciably 
shorted insofar as this market is concerned, in my opinion. 

The city depends for its supplies, not only upon the local area, but 
ships in a considerable amount of produce from other areas and a 
considerable portion of those crops are produced at the present time 
by American farmers and can be produced, we believe, by them. 

Mr. Curtis. You feel, of course, as do the rest of us, that the need 
for any particular item of food should not affect a military decision. 

Air. AliLLER. Certainly, military considerations come first, yes. 

Mr. Curtis. At the same time, this committee is interested in 
working up the details of the program to eliminate as many problems 
as possible. 

Mr. Miller. Yes. 

Mr. Curtis. Has the chamber of commerce made any studies of 
proposals for the resettlement of evacuees? 

Mr. Miller. I wouldn't say that we have made studies in the 
field. We have given a considerable amount of attention to it as to 
possible areas where they might go, and the type of conditions which 
might exist in those areas. 

Mr. Curtis. Do you have anything further to say in regard to the 
attention that is being given to this particular area? 

Mr. Miller. We believe that they should, of course, be moved from 
areas that are agreed upon by the Army. They should be the deter- 
mining body as to the areas from which their movement should take 
place, and should be the ones to decide the areas where they should be 
resettled. Military considerations should govern entirely, but give 
due account — as we assume that the Army will— in collaboration with 
other Federal and outside agencies to decent living conditions, and 
opportunities for the employment in agricultural or other activities 
where they may be resettled. 

NO effect on land values 

Mr. Curtis. Will the evacuation of the Japanese affect land values 
and rentals in this community? 

Mr. Miller. That is difficult to say. I don't think any move of 
that nature could take place without it having its effect. Whether 
that effect will be of any appreciable importance and would tend to 
depreciate land values is, in my opinion, doubtful. There are other 
factors that enter into that picture and as long as there is a demand for 
the use of that land by someone, the value of the land presumably 
will hold. 



11682 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Curtis. Are you worried about the long range effect of the 
freezing method of packing fresh vegetables on land values in this 
area of the country? 

Mr. Miller. Speaking of Los Angeles County, I would say ''No." 
There will be some influences from that source but, as has been 
previously indicated, one of our problems here is to find the land 
and maintain in agricultural production the lands that are needed 
for our local food supply at the time of mdustrial and other 
encroachment. 

Mr. Curtis. To what extent did the Japanese participate in the 
wholesale or retail distribution of vegetables? 

Mr. Miller. I am not in a position to give statistics or have 
definite information on that. They do constitute a considerable 
factor in the wholesale market and they do have concessions and 
possibly some ownership in quite a number of retail markets. 

Mr. Curtis. Do you think their withdrawal will seriously disrupt 
the market? 

Mr. Miller. I do not. 

Mr. Curtis. Have you any estimates of the probable loss of por- 
duction as a result of evacuation for this year? 

Mr. Miller. No. I beheve that INIr. Ryan, who previously 
testified, is in a better position thi^ough his survey and du-ect contact 
with that work, to cover the subject. 

Mr. Curtis. Mr. Rosecrans, will you please tell the Committee 
what the office of Agricultural Coordinator is, how and by whom 
it was set up, and what are your functions? 

functions of office of agricultural coordinator 

Mr. Rosecrans. The office of agricultural coordinator is set up 
under the Los Angeles County Defense Council in cooperation with 
the board of supervisors. The functions, reduced very briefly, are 
to provide for a continuity of production of crops, particularly vege- 
table crops, occasioned by the evacuation of Japanese. 

The methods mig^t be described rather simply as being the inven- 
torying of prospective farmers who may want to go into this opera- 
tion, inventorying land owners who have lands to rent, putting land- 
owners in touch with these farmers by having them, through these 
lists, or otherwise, make their own direct contacts. We are not mak- 
ing the contacts for them or attempting to influence them because we 
feel that under the natural course of business the man who owns the 
land must be the deciding factor in who operates it, or whether it is 
operated, so we are working with him to turn that over. 

Then we also have organized a field survey which works in the 
various agricultural areas where we have men who are designated as 
supervisors who wifi contact in the field land owners and farmers. 

To understand our function, we are not saying that it is our job to 
just take this particular acreage that the Japanese evacuates and put 
somebody on it, because in some instances the parcels are smafi and 
they won't be suitable to the machine type of operation which would 
be practiced by the American farmer who might succeed them. 
Many of them" are what we would caU "family operations" where 
the labor of the whole family was used on it. In some instances, the 
size of the unit is such that it would not be a profitable one. In certain 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11683 

instances, the landowners will probably change the size of those units 
and put them together and otherwise organize them. In other in- 
stances, perhaps if they are too small, they may not work out so well. 

Again, some of these farms don't have suitable farm buildings or 
residential buildings for the successive tenants so that any movement 
of this kind may result in a shift to other lands. 

If we can go back into the history of what happened, the Japanese 
came into this country in the early years of the twentieth century. It 
took him from 15 to 20 years' time to acquire control of approximately 
two-thirds of the vegetable-producing area in the comity. 

Now, due to a military necessity, we are going to attempt a change 
in agriculture in a few weeks which, under normal conditions, would 
take many years. We do have a substantial minority of non-Japanese 
vegetable growers, which I believe furnishes a nucleus of people who 
may undertake this work, and many of those will probably consider 
taking on additional lands. 

We also have men who previously have been in the business who 
could not meet the competition of the labor of Japanese and went 
out of the business of vegetable growing. Many of these people will 
go into it again. 

We also have a number of men who have field crop ranches, for 
instance, such as lima beans, the baby limas, or beets, or alfalfa, 
lands that are under irrigation and suitable for vegetable culture. So 
that the shift need not be a shift of the individual lands as we view 
it, but a shift of obtaining production to compensate for the losses 
occasioned by this evacuation. 

Mr. Curtis. What qualifications in the way o'f experience and 
capital do you look for in applicants to take over lands formerly 
operated by the Japanese? 

EXPERIENCE IN IRRIGATED AGRICULTURE ESSENTIAL 

Mr. RosECRANS. Well, we feel very strongly that experience in irri- 
gated agriculture is absolutely essential. And it should be local 
experience in order that it may be the equivalent of what problems a 
farmer would have in raising vegetables somewhere between the Salt 
River Valley of Arizona and, we will say, Sacramento. Even though 
a man may have raised vegetables under irrigation in the Middle 
West or some Rocky Mountain State, the problems here of maintain- - 
ing the proper soil moisture content, pest control, and fertilization, 
are highly technical and it would be ill-advised for any inexperienced 
person to attempt it. We are very frank in saying to inexperienced 
people, "If you are interested in a career of this character, we suggest 
that you work for a competent grower, and then eventually learn 
the business. But if you are going into it, you will have to have 
experience." Our listing of farmers has shown that a number of them 
have qualifying experience. And of that number, naturally, a lesser 
group are well capitalized and equipped; some have a lack of capital 
and equipment. I think it is probably natural that the first men to 
locate will be those who are completely capitalized. 

I think it is higlily likely that when those men have taken up what 
lands they want, landowners will probably be willing to assist men 
who are competent to meet some of their capital needs and engage in 
production in that way. But there are many regular Government 



11684 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

agencies, and so far as I know there is no special money contemplated 
to be used for unusual financing. We contemplate depending on the 
regular constituted agencies for financing and advice as to pest con- 
trol, and so forth, and we are simply working to supplement the 
existing organizations. 

The office which I hold is not contemplated as being a permanent 
office. It is only to eft'ect a transition for perhaps a 3 or 6 months' 
period. 

Mr. Curtis. If your function ends when the landlord and applicant 
get together, how can your office take effective steps to mcrease pro- 
duction of crops in which there is likely to be a shortage? 

WILL OPERATE CONTINUING FIELD SURVEY 

Mr. RosECRANs. Well, that is a question. We expect to operate a 
continumg field survey. I mentioned that we had supervisors. We 
have 15 of these men. They are all men who have practical contact 
with the vegetable industry. Normally, figures such as the horti- 
cultural commissioner furnishes are issued after the conclusion of a 
plantmg season, or a year. In these functions we are seeking to de- 
velop, through our supervisors and through the Agricultural Com- 
missioner's office, figures which will, permit a rapid exchange of ideas 
on intentions to plant. Now, obviously, no matter what we do, there 
will probably be surpluses of some commodities and there will be 
scarcities of others because of the varying requirements of the trade. 
We are seeking to get out such mformation as we can to growers. 
As a rule of thumb I have personally suggested to some growers that 
whenever they note that so many hundred acres of such and such a 
crop are planted in the county, if those figures show a high proportion 
of the 37,000 acres of truck land bemg operated in the county, they 
had better go easy. In other words, they had better not take a chance 
of planting a crop too heavily. I think with all we can do and with 
all the cooperation we can get, there will be inevitable instances of 
surpluses and corresponding shortages in other commodities. 

Mr. Curtis. Do you expect to establish any quotas? 

Mr. RosECRANS. No; we have no authority to do so and all we can 
do is to suggest to people and exchange information with them, 
and they exchange their intentions to plant with us. 

Mr. Curtis. Have you made a survey to determine how much, 
if necessary, white farmers could increase their production of specific 
crops on land they now operate? 

Mr. RosECRANS, No; we have not. You mean that where the man 
operates a vegetable ranch already? 

Mr. Curtis. Yes. 

Mr. RosECRANS. That is a type of operation on which we have no 
information. 

Mr. Curtis. In what crops do you thuik the shortages will be 
most severe? 

VEGETABLE SHORTAGES 

Mr. RosECRANS. I don't think I would be competent to guess. I 
think perhaps the estimate that has been made by Mr. Ryan and Mr. 
Miller would be more accurate. I think we are more apt to have 
specialty shortages than in some of the more staple things, such as. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11685 

we will say, cabbage and cauliflower and lettuce and carrots, things 
like that probably will be less apt to be short because there have been 
more non-Japanese raisers in those than in some of the others. Now, 
on the other hand, if we give out this publicity it is quite possible 
that some of them will say, "Well, we will do the unusual" and they 
might bring some of the other things in. You can't predict that very 
well. But I think we are apt to have a pretty good supply, perhaps 
of not everything the housewife wants, but a pretty good variety of 
things raised. 

Mr. Curtis. We can get along without spinach, can't we? 

Mr. RosECRANs. Well, personally, I like spinach. 

Mr. Curtis. As a matter of fact, the military considerations must 
control and we can get along without all of them if we have to, can't we? 

Mr. Rosecrans. I think we can. This is another thing: California 
is a very great vegetable-producing area. We have sometimes been 
called the "market basket of the country." Even with that, sometimes 
we import a substantial quantity of things from other areas. Another 
thing, the shortage that we may anticipate is in the summer, say 6 
months from now. That comes at a period when there are large 
supplies of vegetables in other parts of the country; some of them 
may be diverted here. It also comes at times when there are large 
amounts of those items in the other States. Dietetically, the people 
may be growling, but we don't anticipate any scurvy. 

Mr. Curtis. Have the actual and prospective evacuations affected 
the rental of the lands now operated by the Japanese? 

Mr. Rosecrans. I couldn't answer that question. I think it may 
have some effect but not as yet. 

Mr. Curtis. The rental value is based pretty much on what the 
land can produce. Isn't that true? 

Mr. Rosecrans. I would estimate that two-thirds of the farms 
which Mr. Ryan referred to, some fifteen hundred-odd farms, I believe, 
comprising 25,000 acres of land, and more, are located between Santa 
Monica and Long Beach in an area intensely spotted with industrial 
and urban development. Some of the land is occupied by not truly 
agricultural development. They are lands held for industrial and 
subdivision purposes. In many instances, the rents don't equal the 
taxes. They are not purely agricultural lands. The land is land 
that may be used for industrial purposes or settlement and so those 
lands are, in themselves, in a transition period and this may affect 
their transition. 

Mr. Curtis. And the whole impact of the war and the defense 
program locally are factors that enter into that? 

Mr. Rosecrans. I think it is no more than a minor thing. 

Mr. Curtis. What arrangements are being made for the sale and 
care of crops already in the ground on farms being vacated by the 
Japanese? 

Mr. Rosecrans. You mean other than the usual arrangements that 
are made? 

Mr. Curtis. No. Has your committee done anything to prepare 
for a situation where the Japanese may have prepared the gi'ound or. 
even put in the seed before he is notified that he is going to have to 
move? 



11686 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FR.\NCISCO HEARINGS 

TYPE OF CUSTODIANSHIP NEEDED 

Mr. KosECRANS. One of the things we have urged and I have 
urged as an individual before I took tins job was the estabhshment of 
an office of one who could be a custodian. Now, ordinarily we speak 
of custodians for enemy alien goods. Here we would need something 
more than that. It is something that probably is different, and 
Washington has not yet, so far as I know, taken action. It is highly 
important that we have someone with authority to take the interest, 
not alone in the personal property but the growing crops and other 
things, whether they be alien or whether they be citizen or whether 
they be a nuxture. In many cases, to understand the enterprise of 
the Japanese, under the California law the land is rented to a citizen 
Japanese who was born here. Usually he has associated with him 
his father or his imcle or his cousin or someone who is not a citizen. 
It is very difficult to determine whether actually it is a citizen enter- 
prise or whether it is an alien enterprise. 

We need someone to take the authority so that someone can deal. 
If it could be proved a man is a citizen there is no complication. 
But there are doubts in the minds of many people who would take 
over. We need that custodian. 

JAPANESE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO SACRIFICE PROPERTY 

Now, we have indicated, both publicly and to the Japanese, that 
we woidd be glad to assist them in placing them in contact with pros- 
pective farmers because we think they are entitled to considerate 
treatment and could get whatever can be gotten for them. We don't 
think it is fair for the Japanese to have to throw everything up and 
dispose of the lands at a sacrifice. We want to see something done. 
We want to do everything we can do but we are stymied until the 
Government appoints a custodian to act in this connection so that the 
person who comes on knows that he has a right to deal. That is the 
key to it. 

The Curtis. The point you are talking about is something I have 
been advocating many times since we came out here, that the custodian 
should be able to take charge of the alien property as a protection. 

Mr. RosECRANS. That is right. 

Mr. Curtis. To preserve and protect it and cause it to increase in 
value, if possible. 

Mr. RosECRANS. Right. 

Mr. Curtis. That custodian should be someone who know-s the 
law, the customs, and the farming methods and business procedure 
of the local community involved; isn't that true? 

Mr. RosECRANS. He should either be a person of that kind, or he 
should have that information available to him. 

Mr. Curtis. Yes. 

Mr. RosECRANS. I think if someone else were appointed, he could, 
through the offices existing in this county, for example, the agricul- 
tural commissioner's office, which has deputies who are familiar with 
all this practice, secure for himself this information, even thorgh he 
personally might not know it first hand. 

Air. Curtis. The point I am trying to make is that that information 
should be available. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11687 

Mr. RosECRANs. To that office; yes. 

Mr. Curtis. Because it will vaiy a great deal in the three or more 
States that are involved, from the legal standpoint. 

Mr. RosECRANS. As to the custodian, the Government might ap- 
point one for California and station him at San Francisco. They 
might just as well station him m El Paso so far as we are concerned. 
We need one right here. 

Mr. Curtis. There will have to be subordinates. 

Mr. RosECRANS. We don't want subordinates. We want a coordi- 
nator who is able to act himself without going to San Francisco, and 
San Francisco going to Wasliiugton, and Washington gomg to London. 
We want to have the action right now. 

Mr. Curtis. That is right. 

Mr. RosECRANS. We have got too much of that going aromid in 
circles. 

Mr. Curtis. Yes. 

Mr. RosECRANS. If you will pardon my suggestion. We want that 
authority vested in somebody right here in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Curtis. Who can make a decision in view of the local situation. 

Mr. RosECRANS. Yes. If that particular person doesn't happen to 
have the local knowledge, which you say is essential, it should be in 
his office. I am sure that this county, tlu'ough the offices of the defense 
council, and through our board of supervisors, and otherwise, can fur- 
nish the technical assistance. If I am speaking out of turn, I would 
like to be corrected, but I thinly we can furnish that technical assist- 
ance that he might need, providing he has the authority to act and 
to act quickly, because this isn't like a venture where we have some 
physical enterprise of manufacturing. 

Mr. Bender. This isn't a W. P. A. project. 

immediate need for custodian 

Mr. Rosecrans. If the decisions aren't made tomorro\y it won't 
keep. I took the Uberty, as an individual, in urging that this be done, 
that steps should be taken two months ago. Every day we wait, the 
situation becomes more critical. If you waited 30 days for Washing- 
ton to grind out the usual answer, there wouldn't be any need of 
appointing a custodian. It can either be done now or they had better 
forget it and figure they have caused unnecessary loss and hardship on 
people by not taldng action. We want to get a custodian appointed 
as of yesterday. 

Mr. Curtis. Has any action been taken, or arrangements made in 
reference to movable property? 

Mr. Rosecrans. No; not that I know of. 

Mr. Curtis. That would depend upon what kind of property it was 
to a large degree, the weight, and whether it could be used in other 
localities? 

Mr. Rosecrans. I think a lot of Japanese who have tractor equip- 
ment contemplate taking it with them, if they are permitted to do so. 
I think they want to engage in some farming enterprise. 

Mr. Curtis. Yes. 

Mr. Rosecrans. I have talked to some who wish to do that. 

Mr. Curtis. Yes. 



11688 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. RosECRANS. On the other hand some of their equipment might 
be good for the production of only one crop in certain locahties. We 
think that it would be in many cases desirable for that equipment 
to be sold here. It is worth more as a unit. I mean different imple- 
ments together, the kind of equipment that might be suitable for the 
pest control and for harvesting and planting and so forth. 

We hate to see people buy some of tliis for speculation purposes at 
5 cents on the dollar when it ought to be bought by a farmer who lq 
many cases is afraid to buy because he doesn't loiow what the cus- 
todian is going to do. 

So the key to get the confidence in the movement is that we need a 
Federal custodian with power to clear these things right away. 

Mr. McDoNOUGH. There is another consideration I might add. 
I was thinking beyond the Japanese. There are two other nationalities 
here to consider and then there are other industries besides agricul- 
tural. The Japanese are engaged largely in the fishing industry here, 
and there is fishing property to be considered. With the other na- 
tionalities, for instance, the Italians have some agricultural property 
and there are other properties that the custodian ought to have charge 
of. 

Mr. Curtis. I agree with Mr. Rosecrans that the longer that is 
delayed, the more loss there will be. 

Mr. McDoNOUGH. Definitely. 

Mr. Curtis. As well as the more confusion and hardship. 

Mr. McDoNOUGH. There is already confusion no^v. 

Mr. Curtis. Have any cases come to your attention where a lessor 
tried to take advantage of the situation and refused to make a fair 
offer to the Japanese tenant who had to evacuate? 

Mr. Rosecrans. No. None have come to my personal attention. 
There may be such, but I don't know of them. 

Mr. Curtis. In that connection, is someone here in the county 
attempting to mobilize opinion to discourage such a thmg? 

Mr. Rosecrans. I think generaly that the people of the county 
here would be very opposed to that. There are always individuals 
who seek to profit out of someone's misfortune, but I think the 
opinion of this city and county would be very much against that. 
Everyone I have talked to is against it and feels that these Japanese, 
even though they were to be evacuated, are entitled to consideration 
and should not be exploited. I think that is almost universal, except 
for the occasional chiseler who takes advantage. 

Mr. McDoNOUGH. Let me suggest something else. You are seek- 
ing information and I am butting in here once in a while. 

Mr. Curtis. That is just what we want. 

ASSESSMENT OF PROPERTY 

Mr. McDoNOUGH. Now, we are about ready to assess the property 
in the county as of the first of March. That assessment roll will be 
ready for the tax levy in August. For instance, if Japanese aliens, 
or German or Italian aliens are moved out of the zones now established 
by General DeWitt, and some Japanese- Americans and other national- 
ities who are American-born move out and leave their property here, 
they are assessed for it. We attempt to collect. We are going to 
have a deficit in our tax collections if there isn't someone there who 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11689 

has title to it, which could be established by a Federal custodian 
coordinator. 

If we could establish title and ownership as of the first of March — ■ 
that is the date on which we levy taxes here — then we would not 
run into a possible deficit, which we undoubtedly will, because many 
of these people will probably leave their property behind and^there 
will be nobody to pay the taxes next March or next December. 

Mr. Curtis. That is your tax for 1942? 

Mr. McDoNOUGH. '42 to '43. That is, the '42 to '43 taxable year, 
and it becomes delinquent as of the 5th of December next. It is 
assessed now, the first of March, the levy is made on the 30th of 
August and it becomes delinquent as of the oth of December for the 
first half, and the 20th of April of next year for the last half. 

LOSS OF TAX MONEY FEARED 

We are going to be short some tax money if we don't have some 
title established as to the ownership of this land and equipment. 

Mr. Curtis. It is your thought that if the property is preserved by 
a custodian, that it will be preserving the security for your tax hen? 

Mr. McDoNOUGH. That is right. He can establish who should be 
liable for the payment of taxes for that taxable year. 

Mr. Curtis. Yes. And in case of a sale to another person, he can 
enter into an agreement with them to pay the taxes as of March 1st? 

Mr. McDoNOUGH. That is right. It'is a very important thing. 

Mr. Curtis. I think you have brought out a very important thing 
which adds cAidence to the point we have been discussing, namely, 
that it is a problem that demands immediate attention by someone 
who is acquainted with the tax laws, chattel-mortgage hens, and 
landlord-and-tenant law, and aU the other factors that are not subject 
to national jurisdiction, but at least to the State and to the com- 
munity. 

Mr. Miller. May I inject? I thmk the Federal Government has 
an interest in the fact that the setting up of a custodian would help 
considerably in any qestion of claims that may arise later. 

Mr. Curtis. Yes. 

Mr. McDoxouGH. That is right. 

Mr. Curtis. Do you anticipate a shortage in labor willing to do 
stoop labor during the coming season? 

Mr. Kosecrans. Yes; I do. 

SHORTAGE OF LABOR 

As Mr. Ryan said, it is part of a national program. We are gomg 
to move out a considerable number of Japanese. I wouldn't know 
how to compute the amount of labor, but I would say in Los Angeles 
County, there are, approximately, 1,250 Japanese farm operators. 
How much labor that represents in their families I wouldn't know, but 
it certainly represents several thousand people. With the agricultural 
labor, particularly, I wouldn't limit it to stoop labor, but vegetable 
labor. A person who is not competent just can't do it and if you hired 
an ordinary common laborer, so-called, and put him in a vegetable 
patch, he would dig out the vegetables and leave the weeds in mne 



11690 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

cases out of ten. So that we have to get competent labor and it may- 
require some training. 

However, I think in addition to what Mr. Ryan mentioned there 
are a number of sources that can be tapped. I think there are still 
people who are not employed who are gettmg some subsidy of one 
kind or another, and with a little stiffer application, or a little less 
liberality, that will bring out some of them. 

Mr. Curtis. Being a Republican, I can guess who you are talking 
about. 

TRAINING OF FARM LABOR 

Mr. RosECRANS. I think they can be brought out. I think we can 
get a few that way. And, for instance, we have Mexicans who are 
working in other jobs who are agricultural laborers. We have a lot 
of Negroes here who were formerly in agriculture in the South and 
came here and drifted into other types of work. I think many of 
those might be interested in going into agricultural labor, perhaps a 
number of them with the hope that by learning the game they might 
become proprietors themselves. After all, that is how most farmers 
became farmers. They started as laborers first and then became 
proprietors afterward. I think that may be a source. 

It may require some training in a program. We have had the train- 
ing with an industry program here, which has helped train defense 
laborers. We may have to train agricultural laborers to get enough, 
or train some of them, but it is a problem that is part of a national 
program. 

Inasmuch as we are taking out one block of competent labor, it 
probably will be a little aggravated here. 

Mr. Curtis. There is one thing I neglected to ask. Mr. Biscailuz, 
you are the sheriff of Los Angeles County? 

Mr. Biscailuz. Yes. 

Mr. Curtis. What is your business, Mr. McDonough? 

Mr. McDonough. County supervisor. 

Mr. Curtis. In addition to being a county official? 

Mr. McDonough. Nothing. I am a county supervisor, member of 
the board of supervisors. 

Mr. Curtis. That is a full-time job here, I understand? 

Mr. McDonough. That is right, 24 hours a day. 

Mr. Curtis. What position do you have besides representing the 
chamber of commerce? 

Mr. Miller. I am manager of the agricultural department of the 
chamber of commerce and I happen to be secretary of the agricultural 
resources and production committee of the county defense council. 

Mr. Curtis. And you spend full time 

Mr. Miller. Full time with the chamber of commerce, which 
embraces all these activities. 

Mr. Curtis. And you, Mr. Rosecrans, have described your duties, 
but is there anything else? . 

Mr. Rosecrans. I am serving in this capacity m this office as 
agricultural coordinator purely on a voluntary basis. My personal 
business is ranching and property management. 

Mr. Curtis. I think this panel has been one of the most helptul 
that we have had. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11691 

It is a comparatively easy thing for someone to take a map and 
draw a line and say, "We will do certain things on one side of that 
line," and make a decision, but to carry out with many, many details 
the ways and means of how to adjust things, where the evacuation is 
made, and the place where they are going, requires a lot of work. 
There are many, many angles to it and you men have contributed a 
great deal toward solving the problem. 

Is there anything now that I haven't asked you about that you 
would like to mention? 

AVAILABLE SUBSTITUTE LABOR 

Mr. McDoNOUGH. I would like to say in reference to the question 
.of labor that Mr. Rosecrans was just speaking about, that we had 
some experience in training individuals in agriculture here but it was 
a lot more expensive than the method that we could pursue from now 
on. It was a W. P. A. project. 

We took in relief labor, employable people from the relief rolls and 
put them on commmiity gardens. They produced large quantities 
of many of the vegetables that the Japanese are now producing here. 
The thought was not to produce it on an economical basis. The 
principle and purpose of it was to give relief labor to people who were 
unemployed and to use the products of their labor to feed them. 

There were a large nimiber; I can't tell you how many, but those 
people are still available here and many of them are willing now to go 
into these Japanese ranches and go to work. 

There is another element that has developed here. There is a large 
negro population in Los Angeles County and they have offered, in 
groups and organizations, to be trained in agricultural pursuits, and 
to offer their services for replacement of the Japanese that may be 
taken off the land. 

I don't think we would be very much short of labor. The only ele- 
ment is the time element of training them to do the kind of work, and 
in as efficient a manner as the Japanese have done. As Mr. Ryan or 
Mr. Rosecrans said, it took them 20 years to develop this up to the 
point that it is and we can't do it in 2 or 3 months. 

Mr. Curtis. That is one of the problems we face in our whole 
defense program generally. 

Mr. McDoNouGH. That is right, but I think we can do^it and we 
have the willing labor to do it if they are given the opportunity. 

Mr. Miller. If it has not previously been stated, I think the 
information should be before you that the Japanese are rather large 
employers of Mexican labor. The farm operations, which have been 
described here in this county by Mr. Ryan, are conducted in part by 
Japanese with their own family labor; in part by Japanese employed 
by other Japanese; and in part by, and in a considerable degree by 
employment of Mexican and other labor too. 

Mr. Curtis. I want to ask a question in reference to the land owner 
who has been renting his land to Japanese. 

As a general rule, is he quite familiar with the details of the farming 
operation to such an extent that he can become an overseer, and a 
teacher of new tenants? 

Mr. Miller. I think Mr. Rosecrans probably is the best one to 
answer that. 



11692 LOS AXGELES AXD SAN FR.\XCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. RosECRAXS. I don't think you «-ould find any general rule. I 
think in certain areas of the county that would be true and in many 
areas of the county, the land that I referred to as being speculatively 
held, it would not be true. 

I could list many owners who wouldn't have any knowledge. They 
are business people and they wouldn't have any knowledge. 

^Nlr. Curtis. I don't suppose the nom-esident owners would have 
any knowledge. 

Nir. RosECRAXS. I know some nonresident owners who reside away 
from the property who do. I have loiowledge of one large organiza- 
tion that farms themselves and rents to Japanese, and they have 
considerable knowledge of what should be done. 

Mr. Miller. I think Mr. Rosecrans will agree that the farm oper- 
ated end of it, though, that is, the man with the knowledge to know how 
to do the job, is not a particular problem, ^^-ith the possible exception 
of a very few crops. 

Mr. RosECRAXS. That is my experience. "We have been impressed 
that even ^^^thout going out in the country we have a lot of people 
who have the knowledge. 

Mr. Bexder. Yes. I would like to ask a couple of questions of the 
sheriff. 

You have a force of your owm here in the county, a law-enforcement 
force? 

POLICIXG OF LOS AXGELES COUX'TY 

Mr. BiscAiLUZ. Yes. I would Uke to, if you would allow me, 
informally, to give you just a little background of the pohcmg of 
Los Angeles County. 

We have, of course, in the city of Los Angeles a pohce force of 
approximately 3,000. We have an unincorporated area of Los Angeles 
Coimty \vith a population of nearly 600,000 people. We have 45 
cities in Los Angeles County, including the metropolitan city of 
Los Angeles, and "each has it's ovm constituted authorities such as 
pohce and fire and other tlungs to go ^^-ith an organized community. 

It is the duty of the sheriff of Los Angeles County to police the 
unincorporated area of Los Angeles County, wliich means we have 12 
sub-stations in Los Angeles County. Each one of these sub-stations 
has attached to it a force of men \vith two-way radios and other 
equipment to pohce that particular area. 

In addition to that we handle cases that have to do with major 
crimes in the entire coimty of Los Angeles, including the city. But 
as far as local ordinances 'are concerned, we only act in cities when 
called upon by the local authority. 

We have in our organization a personnel of approximately 1,000. 
That includes our county jail personnel. For your information I 
would like to state that we have 2,000 prisoners in the Los Angeles 
Coimty Jan. as well as 1,000 in our honor camps and honor farm. 
We are a uniformed organization. Rather unlike most sheriff organ- 
izations we have our uniform bodies as weU as our investigative 
bureau. The sheriff's office here is to be hkened with a pohce depart- 
ment such as would operate in the city, except, our operations, as I 
have described, have to do with the over-aU picture outside of the 
citv. 



_j XATIOXAL DEFENSE aOGRATION 11693^ 

Mr. Bender. Do you have any jurisdiction within the city limits? 

Mr. BiscAiLUZ. Yes. The sheriff has jurisdiction anywhere in 
Los Angeles County except that, from the policing standpoint, we 
do oiu" work mainly in the miincorporated area of Los Angeles County. 
That has towns that are not incorporated in this particular area. 

Mr. Bexder. Your personnel of 1,000 does not include the police 
forces and law-enforcement agencies of these 45 political subdivisions 
you mentioned? 

Mr. BiscAiLUZ. No, sir. You must remember that with 1,000 in 
the sheriff's office, just as with the police department, that doesn't 
mean that we have 1,000 officers in the field. Part of that is broken 
do\\Ti into tiu-nkeys, bailiffs in court and clerical forces. So we have 
approximately 400 men who devote their entire time to police work. 
In spite of that we have auxihary forces in Los Angeles that do not 
cost the taxpayers anything. These men have been trained in the 
fundamentals of police work and assist us whenever an imusual 
situation exists. 

Mr. Bender. How many? 

AUXILIARY forces 

Mr. BiscAiLUZ. We have the sheriff's auxiliary, the sheriff's posse 
of horsemen, the sheriff's aero squadron, the sheriff's communicatioDS 
reserve, and our sheriff's emergency reserve. Each is maimed by 
men who receive nothing from the taxpayers, who furnish their own 
equipment, arms, and all are in addition to our own paid forces. 

Mr. Bender. Approximately how many square miles are there in 
Los Angeles County? 

Mr. BiscAiLUZ. 4,083 square miles, and that takes in Catahna 
Island and San Clemente. Of comse, San Clements is now under 
Government control. In other words, it is an island that is handled 
by the Federal forces, but Catalina Island is a Wrigley holding and 
you aU know that is different from San Clemente. 

Mr. Bender. Would you say that there are five or six thousand 
law-enforcement officers in the county altogether? 

Mr. Biscailuz. I will say the paid forces we have in Los Angeles, 
includmg all the cities in Los Angeles County, and the incorporated 
cities, are around 4,500. That doesn't take in the fire fighters, but 
poUce. Then we have 5,700 unpaid deputy sheriffs who are subject 
to call at all tunes without pay. We have 350 in our sheriff's emer- 
gency, reserve, men who have been on duty several times since Pearl 
Harbor. 

We have the sheriff's posse of 50 men who can undertake a lot of 
things. Of course, om- aero squachon is grounded on accoimt of the 
conditions, but they are doing work of benefit from the ground. 

Mr. Bender. Have you had occasion to work with the F. B. I. at 
any time? 

AID GIVEN F. B. I. 

Mr. Biscailuz. Yes, sir. I would like to state that the day of 
Pearl Harbor, we were caUed upon by the F. B. I. to augment their 
forces, including the Los Angeles Police Department, when the first 
round-up of aliens was made and we have worked very closely with 
them. 

60396 — 42— pt. 31 6 



11694 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Whenever they have a program, they will call us. Then if it is in 
county territory, the sheriff's office furnishes the manpower to work 
with their men. If it is in the city of Los Angeles, the chief of police 
furnishes the men. 

Mr. Bender. Would you say your relationship with the F. B. I. 
has been satisfactory? 

Mr. BiscAiLuz. I would like to say here that we enjoy a very 
cordial and workable arrangement. 

Mr. Bender. Their services, so far as you know, in this county, 
are satisfactory? 

Mr. BiscAiLuz. Yes. Except that they have to depend again on 
the local constituted authorities to work with them. Their forces 
could not at any time do the work that they have done here if they 
were working alone. 

PREPARING FOR EVACUATION 

Mr. Bender. Sheriff' Biscailuz, do the local law-enforcement agen- 
cies have information concerning all the aliens and families of aliens 
in this county? Have they taken steps to inform themselves as to 
the nature of the problem in the event of an evacuation? 

Mr. Biscailuz. Yes. Well, I can't say that we have complete in- 
formation but I will say, taking it from our county council, we have 
broken it down into seven standing committees. One is the agricul- 
tural resources and production, headed by Mr. Ryan; civil protection, 
headed by John Quinn, our county assessor, who is a past national 
commander of the American Legion; health, welfare, and consumer 
interest, headed by Air. Holton; transportation, housing, works, and 
facilities, headed by Mr. Griffin; human resources and skill, headed 
by Mr. Howard Byron. 

Each one of those have subcommittees that are working just like 
Mr. Rosecrans, working out these problems and getting the informa- 
tion. I have a file, of course, of the addresses, that is broken down 
into the aliens of the different countries that we are at war with at 
the present time. 

Mr. Bender. Have your agencies here taken advantage of the 
information possessed by the Census Bureau? 

Mr. Biscailuz. Yes. We have that information and I w^ould like 
to state also that we have an antisubversive detail here made up of 
k-ained men who do nothing else now but run down information and 
then pass that on to the F. B. I. They work with the F. B. I. but 
in many instances they cull the information that comes to us and 
then.it-is passed on to them. And in some cases work with the F. B. I. 
and in that manner the case is brought to a culmination. 

Mr. Bender. In the event that an order comes for a wholesale 
evacuation, do you feel that with all of your coordinated agencies 
that you are in a position to cope with whatever situation that might 
develop? 

Mr. Biscailuz. I will say tliis: That under the arrangement now 
of Federal supervision, and from what I have read of the plan, that 
I beheve that we will be called upon at the time to assist the Federal 
forces and I know that with our auxiliaries and our volunteer forces 
I have mentioned, although it would be quite a task, that we can 
handle it all right, at least we will do our best. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11695 

I 



I 



Mr. Bender. Is there aiiytliiiig further any of you gentlemen care 
to ask? 

Mr. RosECRANS. I do not think so. 

Mr. Arnold, Thank you. If I am any judge, the affairs of Los 
Angeles County are in good hands in the fields of your endeavors. 

FEW JAPANESE STUDYING GERMAN 

Mr. Bender. There were several gentlemen here, whose names I 
do not have, who before the hearing this morning indicated that an 
unusual number of Japanese students of the University of California 
were taking German courses. I asked one of our investigators to 
contact Mr. Harry W. Showman, registrar, at the University of Cali- 
fornia, and this is his report, for the record. Mr. Shomnan gave the 
following statistical information concerning Japanese enroUees in 
German-language classes before the entry of the United States in war. 

The figures are based on the first semester before December 7, 1941. 
"Total University of California, Los Angeles, enrollment: 8,012; 
Japanese students, approximately 200. 

Of the approximate 200 Japanese students, exactly 26 were taking any German 
at all; of the 26, 5 were taking courses in straight German literature, the remaining 
21 the language itself. There were no Japanese taking scientific German. 

The total enrollment in German classes was 508. 

Mr. Showman stated that inasmuch as it is a requirement for undergraduates 
to take a foreign language, it is uot unusual to find Japanese students in German- 
language classes, and that the above figures are in line with those of former years. 

Mr. Arnold. The committee will stand adjourned until 10 a. m. in 
this room. 

(Whereupon, at 4:30 p. m. an adjournment was taken until Satm- 
day, March 7, 1942, at 10 a. m.) 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGEATION 



SATURDAY, MARCH 7, 1942 

moening session 

House of Representatives, 
Select Committee Investigating 

National Defense Migration, 

Washington, D, C. 
The committee met at 10 a. m., in the State Building, assembly 
room, Los Angeles, Calif., pm-suant to notice, Hon. John H. Tolan 
(chairman). 

Present: Representatives Laurence F. Arnold (acting chairman), of 

Illinois; George H. Bender, of Ohio; and Carl T. Curtis, of Nebraska. 

Also present: Dr. Robert K. Lamb, staff director; John W. Abbott, 

chief field investigator; Francis X. Riley, field investigator; Jack B. 

Burke, field investigator; and Ruth B. Abrams, field secretary. 

Mr. Arnold. The committee will come to order. 

TESTIMONY OF RICHARD B. HOOD, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, 
LOS ANGELES DISTRICT, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGA- 
TION 

Mr. Arnold. Will you give to the reporter your name and occu- 
pation? 

Mr. Hood. Richard B. Hood, special agent in charge of the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation at Los Angeles. 

Mr. Arnold. The committee understands, Mr. Hood, that you 
have a statement to make to the committee. We will be glad to 
have it. 

Mr. Hood. Thank you. 

Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I appreciate the 
opportunity of appearing before the committee as the local represen- 
tative of the Federal Bureau of Investigation inasmuch as we do not 
feel that yesterday's statement by Mayor Fletcher Bowron relative 
to the relationship between this Bureau and the Army and the Navy 
Intelligence Service is a true statement of the facts. With reference 
to the statement that there has not been sufficient cooperation m a 
practical way between the F. B. I. and the Army and Navy Intclh- 
gence Services, it should be stated that the present relationship 
between the organizations is practical, workable, and effective. Since 
September 1939, and not only since the declaration of war following 
the attack on December 7, but since September 1939, have the respec- 
tive agencies been in constant collaboration on national defense 
matters. This relationship has been developed by the mutual ex- 

11697 



11698 LOS AXGELES AND SAX FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

change of information, daily contacts and weekly conferences between 
the designated heads of the organizations both in the field and in 
Washington, D. C. All information relative to national deiense 
matters coming to the attention of this Bureau regardless of its po- 
tential military value, is immediately referred to the intelligence 
agencies and the mihtary value of the information is determined by 
the Army and the Xa^-y and not by the F. B. I. The fact remains that 
there is cooperation and coordination between the Intelligence Serv- 
ices and the F. B. I. ; we have been advised of this by those agencies. 

RESERVE OFFICERS IN" F. B. I. 

With reference to the statement that agents of this Bureau are not 
the ones to appraise the military value of information, it should be 
noted that almost 200 of the Bureau's agent personnel are Reserve 
officers in the Army of such skill and professional military attainment 
in that field that the War Department has seriously considered the 
necessity of calling them to active duty and has only deferred this 
action because of the realization that the services being rendered by 
these Reserve officers in the F. B. I. are so vital to the national defense 
as to permit their remaining in the Bureau's service. 

A considerable number of Bureau agents over a period of years held 
Reserve commissions in the United States Navy and the United States 
Marine Corps and consequently these men are trained and skilled 
in military items. 

In execution of the Presidential proclamation whereby the law- 
enforcement officers of the Nation were called upon to turn over all 
the information obtained by them of espionage, counter-espionage, 
sabotage, and subversive activities to the F. B. I., there has been an 
effective coordinated plan developed to utilize the services and facili- 
ties of all local law-enforcement agencies. The effectiveness of this 
program in protecting the internal security against the actions of 
enemy agents has proven its value throughout the country and espe- 
cially in the Los Angeles area for by planned action with the Intelli- 
gence Services and with the assistance of local officers who have re- 
ceived training, attended conferences and conducted investigations 
and otherwise rendered their assistance on national defense matters, 
there have been 1,572 enemy alien apprehensions since December 7 
last. This effective relationship with the Army and Navy Intelli- 
gence Services is continuing in order that the present program may be 
vigorously pursued. 

SERVICE RENDERED TO ARMY INTELLIGENCE 

As proof of the effectiveness of this agreement, as late as March 6 
it was necessary for the Army Intelligence to call on the Bureau for 
information relative to a specific problem on the enemy alien control 
program and due to our numerous contacts and informant coverage 
in the western defense command, it was possible to obtain this infor- 
mation almost immediately and submit it to the Army Intelligence 
for their use. I am sure that if the committee called upon them^ 
both the Army and the Navy Intelligence Service representatives 
will substantiate the statements relative to our relationship. 



XATIOXAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11699 

Mr. Bender. Mr. Hood, have you had any disagreement with the 
mayor in connection with any incident or any individual case that the 
conimittee is not conversant with or that the community is not 
conversant with? Have you in mind any particular item that caused 
the mayor to take the position that he did regarding your organization? 

Mr. Hood. No, su% there has been no such incident. Several 
weeks ago the mayor called to the attention of one di the officials m 
the Navy Department the fact that he did not think there was this 
cooperation between the Army and Navy Intelligence Sei-vices and 
our Bureau here, and subseciuent to that 1 personally called upon the 
mayor for information in that regard but he was not personally 
conversant with any facts which he could give me. Likewise, the 
captam in charge of the local ofhce of the Naval Intelligence per- 
sonally called upon the mayor for the same information, but the 
mayor was not able to give him any facts to substantiate that claim.. 

Mr. Bender. This committee is not composed of F. B. I. members; 
we are Members of Congress. But we do have staff members who 
have been working with your department here, and since the mayor's 
testimony yesterday I myself have spent considerable time making 
inquiry into your organization's activity. I personally find that your 
record is one that you can justly be proud of in. this coimnunity. 

I might add further, for the information of the citizens of this area, 
that I participated in debate 2 weeks ago when the appropriation for 
the ensuing year for the F. B. I. was up before Congress, and even 
though Congress is very critical of various agencies, not one word of 
criticism was uttered bv the membership on the floor, or the members 
of the committee in charge of the bill. In fact, the comment was 
uniformly favorable. And whatever sins of commission or omission 
there are in connection with this war effort, certainly, as far as one 
member of the committee is concerned, I can say to you that the 
F. B. I. record has been excellent. 

Mr. Hood. Thank you, sir, very kindly. I am sure that is the 
effort of our Director and we will continue that to the best of our 
ability in cooperation with the Army and Navy Intelligence Services. 

Mr. Arnold. Mr. Hood, have you had cooperation in the Los 
Angeles area from the mayor? 

cooperation received from law-enforcement officers in 

los angeles 

Mr. Hood. Yes. Our relationship has been, of course, with the 
law-enforcement agencies, as we are purely an investigative agency. 
The Los Angeles Police Department, the Los Angeles sheriff"'s office, 
and all the other law-enforcement agencies that we have called on have 
rendered excellent assistance. 

Mr. Arnold. Does the mayor in this city have charge of the pohee 
force? 

Mr. Hood. As head of the city government, he does. There is a 
pohce commission which also directs the general activities of the or- 
ganization. My relationsliip is, of course, with the chief himself. 

Mr. Arnold.. You have had cooperation from the pohce depart- 
ment? 

Mr. Hood. Yes. 



11700 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Arnold. How would the mayor of Los Angeles have informa- 
tion with reference to your cooperation with the Navy and Army 
Intelligence Services? 

Mr. Hood. I have endeavored to ascertain that; at the time of my 
interview with the mayor he stated he personally had not talked with 
the heads of the Army and Navy Intelligence Services here, and his 
information was second-hand. 

Mr. Bender. Let me ask another question, Mr. Hood. Do you 
have knowledge or information concerning any particular investiga- 
tion, which your department was indifferent to carrying through, 
based on information that was supplied to you by one in authority in 
an official capacity here in this area? 

Mr. Hood. I do not, sir. Of course, I think it should be con- 
sidered that the information that we receive that may appear to be 
important to the individual contributing it, in the light of the facts 
we already have may be absolutely unimportant; and on the other 
hand, what many persons deem of no value is to us of great impor- 
tance. We endeavor to evaluate information in the light of what we 
already have. 

Mr. Bender. Without giving the number of persons engaged in 
work in connection With your bureau, do you feel that you could use 
additional men in connection with your work in this area? 

Mr. Hood. Yes. I am sure that we could. I think that is a true 
condition throughout the country. 

Mr. Bender. You are not working on an 8-hour-day schedule? 

IVIr. Hood. Not by any means; no, sir. 

most information given in good FAITH 

Air. Curtis. I would like to ask a question or two. In reference 
to the assistance that citizens render the F. B. I., generally, in turning 
in information, is the greater part of that information helpful, or are 
you bothered considerably by what might be termed cranks and 
publicity seekers in reference to the information they bring to you? 

Mr. Hood. We constantly receive a great flow of information both 
by personal interview and communication from outside individuals. 
A great deal of it does fit into the cases we have under investigation. 
We frequently receive numerous comolaints relative to the same 
individuals, and that is the basis for investigation in many cases. 
Obviously, we do receive a great deal of information of absolutely no 
value, but it is given in good faith and until we check it ourselves we 
cannot evaluate that information. 

Mr. Curtis. I will state my question a little differently. Are you 
bothered with very much information that is not given in good faith? 

Mr. Hood. A very small part of it is not given in good faith. We 
have had a few instances of where people have endeavored to obtain 
publicity for themselves or cause embarrassment to other people, but 
those have been relatively few. 

Mr. Curtis. I am very glad to hear that, because it not only assists 
your department but it shows the wholesome respect of the American 
people for your bureau. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11701 



RESPONSE FROM JAPANESE NOT SATISFACTORY 

One other question in reference to the receipt of information: 
Have you found, over the past months, that the Japanese, whether 
they be citizen or alien, have been willing and cooperative and anxious 
to gWe you facts to help them clean their own house of disloyal people 
as compared to others? 

Mr. Hood. As compared to the number of them in the territory 
there has not been the response that we feel we should be getting at a 
time such as this. 

Mr, Curtis. In other words, they are not quite as anxious to in- 
form against their fellow Japanese as some other groups are? 

Mr. Hood. That is correct. 

Mr. Curtis. That is all. 

Air. Arnold. Mr. Hood, we thank you for coming here. From the 
information we have gotten throughout the country, along the west 
coast especially, so far as we are concerned the F. B. I. is not on trial. 
They have already performed, but, of course, we appreciate having the 
mayor on the stand and he may have grounds for complaint that we 
don't know about. We are glad to have the information from him 
and we are glad to have you come here and tell the side of the F. B. I. 
We appreciate your testimony. 

Mr. Hood. Thank you, sn. 

Mr. Arnold. Mr. Hood, the occupational tabulations and the 
information concerning language schools will be inserted in the record 
at this pomt. 



TABULATION SUBMITTED BY RICHARD B. HOOD, SPECIAL AGENT 
IN CHARGE OF THE LOS ANGELES DISTRICT OF THE FEDERAL 
BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION 

A list of the occupations of 400 Japanese aliens in Los Angeles County, Feb. 25, 194^ 

Mechanic 1 

Merchants 27 

Ministers 5 

Nurserj^men 26 



Barber 1 

Box maker 1 

Chemist 1 

Cooks 17 

Dishwasher 1 

Domestics 4 

Dressmaker 1 

Farmers 64 

Gardeners 68 

Housekeepers 7 

Housewives 117 

Janitors 3 

Laborers 4 

Laundry workers 3 



Nurse 1 

Restaurant owners 5 

Retired 8 

Salesmen 7 

Sailor 1 

Store clerks 10 

Unemployed 13 

Total 40a 



11702 



LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



A list of the occupations of 200 Italian aliens in Los Angeles County, Feb. 25, 1942 

Apartment owner 

Artist 

Bartender 

Barber 

Butchers 

Beauty operator 

Brick mason 

Baker 

Concert pianist 

Cooks 

Contractors 



1 

1 

1 

1 

2 

1 

1 

1 

1 

2 

2 

Clothing finishers , 7 

1 

1 

1 

2 

1 

60 

1 

1 

1 



Cement mason 

Caster 

Domestic 

Farmers 

Fish peddler 
Housewives- 
Hat cleaner. 

Janitor 

Lead refiner. 

Xiaborers 17 

Merchants 7 

Mechanics 4 

Nurse 1 

Nurseryman 1 



Office clerk _ _ _. 


1 


•Peddlers . __ _ 


4 


Presser _. _ . 


1 


Railroader _ 


1 


Painters _ 


3 


Real-estate broker _ 


1 


Retireds . _ _ _ 


12 


Students . _ _ . 


2 


Seamstresses. . _. _ 


5 


Shoemakers ._ . _ . 


4 


Saleslady . __ _ . 


- __ 1 


Shoeshiners . _ _ 


2 


Si2;n painter _ _ _. 


1 


Salesmen . 


- - 4 


Sand blaster 


1 


Tvpist.__ . . 


1 


Tailors 


2 


Truck driver _ 


-- -_. 1 


Unemployed . __ . . 


- 28 


Vegetable peddler 

Waiters ._ 


1 

2 


Watchman __ __ . . 


1 


Wine maker _. . 


-- _- 1 







Total 200 



A list of the occupations of 200 Gevjnan aliens in Los Angeles County, Feb. 25, 1942 



Bus boy 1 

Bus driver 1 

Blacksmith 1 

Butler 1 

Butcher 1 

Caster 1 

Cashier 1 

Chauffeur 1 

Cleaning and pressing 1 

Contractors 2 

Cooks 11 

Domestic 12 

Dishwasher 1 

Electrician 1 

Fur finisher 1 

Gardner 1 

Housewives 43 

Garment cutter 1 

Janitor 1 

Laborers 14 



Movie extra 

Mechanics 

Machinists 

Machine-shop owner. 
Maid 



Nurse 

Pipe-liner 

Paper carrier 

Painter 

Photographer 

Office manager. _. 

Retired 

Radio technician. 
Salesladies 



2 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

4 

1 

6 

Salesmen 23 

Shipping clerk 1 

Soda-fountain clerk 1 

Stenographer 1 

Students 5 

Soldier 1 

Truck driver 1 

Tile layer 1 

Tool- and die-maker 1 

Unemployed 26 

Watchmakers 2 

Waitresses 3 

Waiter 1 



Total 200 



Number of language schools in Southern California Federation 38 

Number of language schools not in federation (including 6 in San Diego 
and 1 in Arizona 76 



Total 114 

Schools reporting 6,308 pupils 82 

Schools which did not report 32 



Total language schools (including 6 in San Diego and 1 in Arizona) 114 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11703 

Mr. Arnold. The United Citizens Federation. 

Now, will each of you give your full name for the reporter? 

TESTIMONY OF TOKIE SLOCUM, TOGO TANAKA, SAM MINAMI, 
FRED TAYAMA, AND JOSEPH SHINODA, MEMBERS OF THE 
UNITED CITIZENS FEDERATION 

Mr. Slocum. My name is Tokie Slocum. 

Mr. Tanaka. Mine is Togo Tanaka. 

Mr. Tayama. My name is Fred Tayama. 

Mr. Shinoda. Joseph Shinoda. 

Mr. Bender. For the information of the audience, there must be 
no demonstrations of any -kind and there must be a courteous and 
respectful hearing accorded every witness or the hearing room will be 
cleared. 

Mr. Arnold. I shall address these questions to Mr. Tanaka and he 
can have any one of the panel answer that he sees fit. 

What is you occupation and the occupation of those appearing 
with you, Mr. Tanaka? 

Mr. Tanaka. I am editor of the Los Angeles Japanese Daily News. 

Mr. Arnold. In what representative capacity are the others 
appearing? 

Mr. Tanaka. Mr. Slocum is a member of the Veterans of Foreign 
Wars, and on the Board of the United Citizens Federation. He is 
also a member of the American Legion, having served overseas. 

Mr. Tayama is chairman of the Southern District Japanese-Ameri- 
can Citizens League and an insurance man by profession. 

And Mr. Shinoda appears here as a representative of the United 
Citizens Federation. He is in the floriculture business as head of the 
San Lorenzo Nursery Co. of California. 

Mr. Arnold. As you may know, the committee is primaiily a fact- 
finding committee. I understand that the local Japanese comniittee 
has prepared an analj^sis of the various phases of the economic life of 
the community. This will he received for the record. We have 
heard representatives of Japanese groups at our previous hearings in 
San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle, and are anxious to hear your 
presentation, representing as you do the largest Japanese community 
in the country. All the previous witnesses, 1 might say, have stressed 
the fact that they were loyal Americans and were anxious to cooperate 
in any move deemed necessary for national security. 

Suppose we begin by having each member of the panel make a 
short statement. I understand you have agreed among yourselves 
on how to allocate your testimony. 

Mr. Tanaka. Yes. It is our understanding, sir, that you have 
collected and compiled much data, and whatever we may have to 
submit here at this time will merely check or confirm material you 
already have at your disposal. 

We felt that in view of the developments that have already taken 
place, and definitely in view of our absolute desire and willingness to 
take a responsible part in this war effort, we are proceeding here from 
the point that nothing we do is too much of a sacrifice for our country. 
In this matter of evacuation that has been brought before your 
committee, we are here to lend every cooperation to the proper 



11704 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Federal authorities and to this committee here in supplying you with 
things that we feel will be helpful to this board. 

I think that if it is in order we would like to have inserted in the 
records of the testimony something that would reflect upon our 
feelings as loyal Americans on this whole problem here and as they 
bear upon problems that are local. 

Mr. Arnold. What do you wish to insert? 

Mr. Tanaka. We have here, if I may call it to the attention of this 
committee, a copy of an editorial that is appearing in the Los Angeles 
Japanese Daily News of March 8 (that is tomoiTow) which we would 
like to have inserted, if we may read it. 

Mr. Bender. You go ahead. 

Mr. Tanaka. It is a comment on the hearings, some of the testi- 
mony that was presented here yesterday and I would like, if I am in 
order here, to read this editorial. It is entitled "An Open Letter to 
Mayor Fletcher Bowron." I don't wish to bring personalities into 
the testimony except that it will give you some idea of some of the 
things that are going on in the mmds and hearts of people who look 
Japanese but who, in reality, are American. 

The letter, or rather, the editorial, follows: 

An Open Letter to Mayor Fletcher Bowron 

On Thursday night over KECA you answered the grand jury accusation charg- 
ing you with ''willful and corrupt misconduct and misdemeanor in office." 

You said: 

"I know this is still America and worth fighting for because I am permitted to 
tell you the facts." 

As you spoke, old memories came to life. 

We recalled how you, as Judge Fletcher Bowron, were once a minority candi- 
date crusading for a cause that looked hopeless. 

Your broadcast Thursday night was lengthy but clearly and well stated. 

We remembered how ouV idealism for principle and civic virtue had sent us 
headlong into the battle for you. 

How we campaigned in our small way. How we button-holed our friends to 
vote for you. How happy we were to have had a part as a citizen of this great 
city in these affairs. 

This may appear urelevant, but we arc getting to the point. 

You were our mavor. We were proud of you. 

If we had the choice between the administration now occupying the city hall 
and your predecessor's, we would still prefer yours. 

But there is this other thing, too. 

We heard you testify Friday morning before the Tolan congressional investi- 
gating committee in the State Building. 

The metropolitan newspapers have been picturing you to some people as a 
race-baiting, excitable man who one day yells up and down to "intern all the Japs 
— ahens and citizens alike — " and then the next day shouts louder because the 
Army has designated a site. 

If you could only know the terror you've been credited with raising in the hearts 
of helpless old women and distressed little children! 

But we've never been excited by all this hullabaloo about our mayor. 

We're going to keep cool. We've got to be objective. 

This is a great crisis, not only for ourselves as individual Americans^of what- 
ever racial extraction — but for our Nation itself. 

On Fridav, testifying before the Tolan committee, you said: 

"I still believe that on the part of a large number of American-born^ Japanese, 
possibly the majority, their avowed patriotism and loyalty is sincere." 

You also said that local Japanese have caused very little trouble; that they 
have been "law-abiding and industrious." 

However, when you were asked whether boards should be set up to hear ex- 
traordinarv cases of persons affected bv any Army evacuation order, you said 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11705 

you were flatly opposed to having Americau-born Japanese given that opportun- 
ity. 

For German and Itahan aliens, the board hearings would be all right, you said. 

But for American citizens of Japanese origin, you said "'No," because, "once 
you start making exceptions, you get into hot water." 

In effect, you would deny to native-born citizens what you would grant to 
Axis enemy aliens. 

Is this Fletcher Bowron, Americanism champion, speaking? 

We have never believed that anything other than military necessity really 
entered into your decision to campaign for removal of Japanese from coastal 
areas. 

We have had faith in your integrity as a man of principle. 

We have insisted, in the face of mounting criticism against tactics alleged to you, 
that you are not the kind of person who pushes people around. 

"Let's be good sports, fellows. The mayor's got a tough job, after all. We 
had just better try harder to clean out the pro-Japan elements in our population. 
That means closer cooperation still with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and 
Intelligence Services. If we could guarantee that all dangerous persons had been 
rounded up, he probably wouldn't have to say the things he has, "we've explained 
off your actions. 

We have always tried to believe that you have been kindly, courageous, and 
honest and that you have consistently stood against fraud, deceit, greed, and 
cruelty. 

We have said: 

"The mayor knows that the majority of us are loyal and good Americans; that 
we share nothing with Japan in this war; that we are doing our individual utmost 
to win victor}'; that our homes, our friends, our dear ones, our livelihood, our 
spiritual convictions are rooted here, in America." We have thus reassured our- 
selves these past few weeks. 

We have said further: 

"If Mayor Bowron is as discerning a man as we believe him to be, we know that 
he recognizes us as Americans. He knows that we who are loyal prefer democracy 
to any other principle of government. We feel he can see through our exterior 
and see in us citizens no different from Bill Jones." 

We have repeated that statement to our friends who have been disturbed every 
time the newspapers reported your discovery of an Indian reservation. 

Somehow, the first tinge of doubt in all our high illusions about you crept in at 
Friday's hearing before the Tolan committee. 

You acknowledged that many of us, "possibly the majority," in your opinion, 
are loyal Americans. 

Yet, in the treatment of us, you would deny to all of us that which you would 
grant to German and Italian aliens. 

You have been the spearhead of press publicity for uprooting all of us from 
the only homes we know. 

Yet, before the Tolan committee, you had no definite plan, either for evacua- 
tion or for taking care of the economic and business dislocation in Los Angeles 
after we are gone. 

You consistently referred to the responsibility of the Federal Government. In 
a word, you passed the buck. 

At long last, w« were without an answer for the critics who condemn us for 
defending you. 

"Why, iie is just a politician lafterall. He's been reaping a whirlwind of 
publicity and reams of space in the newspapers. Is he building himself for 
political aspirations? When it comes down to constructive planning and a prac- 
tical solution to the problem, he's got practically nothing," one reader who 
attended the hearing said to us. 

We still can't believe that completely. We still have faith in your honesty 
and judgment. 

To us, this is a war of ideology we are fighting. It is a life-and-death struggle 
to determine whether we shall live in a world where individual human dignities 
and decencies shall be respected or a world in which they shall mean nothing. 

To us, this is not a racial war, as the Axis propagandists would have you believe. 

We prefer to die for democracy than to live in a totalitarian tyranny. 

We mean it from the bottom of our hearts when we say that no sacrifice is too 
great for our country. 

What we have already done for our country's victory, we have done cheerfully. 
What we shaU do from this point on, we shall do with the same American spirit. 



11706 L05 .\XGELES AND SAX FR.\XCISCO HEARINGS 

We have alway> respected your intelligence, open-mindedness and tolerance. 

We do not believe all our problems can be solved successfully by any set pattern. 
We make allowances for mistakes. 

We may not be here very much longer. 

We assure you, however, that we shall always crusade for those who seek 
constructively to improve the way men live together. 

"We take pride in knowing that the harder the conflict, the more glorious 
the triumph." 

In your own words, may we say: 

"I know this is still America and worth fighting for because I am permitted to 
tell you the facts.'' 

We should like to have this, if it is in order, inserted in the record 
as an expression of feeling and sentiment that we feel represents the 
American of Japanese ancestry in this area. 

Mr. Bender. The statements you are making before this committee 
will all be in the record. 

Mr. Arnold. Now, we will continue with the questions and you 
designate who is to answer. 

Would you describe to the committee the chief problems that arose 
in the evacuation that already took place and what measures should 
be taken to deal with them? 

Mr. Tanaka. Mr. Tayama will answer that. 

CHIEF PROBLEMS IN EVACUATION 

Mr. Tayama. I believe at the present time, because we do not know 
just where we could go, the majority of people are in confusion. We 
would like to have designated just where we can go and what we can 
do so that these people can dispose of their properties, their businesses, 
and whatever they have to the best of their advantage and then pre- 
pare themselves to do something which might be helpful to our 
national defense. 

I believe that if some work was given to them, something that they 
can do to help our country in this crisis, it would give them not only 
work but it would make them feel the responsibility that is theirs as a 
part of this great Nation. 

Mr. Arnold. Now, that is with respect to future evacuations. 
The next few questions I wish to ask you deal with the evacuation 
that has already taken place from Terminal Island and others. In 
that connection the committee would like to know what chief prob- 
lems arose, and if you know, what measures to correct anything that 
happened were taken, any discriminations or troubles that arose in 
connection with that evacuation. And also in that connection whether 
or not you have learned of any buying up of property of Japanese 
at a low price? 

Mr. Shinoda. Sirs, I would like to bring up this matter of efficiency 
of evacuation. 

Mr. Arnold. Efficiency? 

uncertainty created by evacuation orders 

Mr. Shinoda. Yes. The order of the day is evacuation. We be- 
lieve that total and complete evacuation is more difficult and creates 
more dislocation and would be far more inefficient than almost total 
evacuation. By that I mean this: The farmers in the outlying dis- 
tricts, the merchants, the home owners, the property owners, feel that 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11707 

if America will do this to citizens, a body of citizens who the mayor of 
this city and who many of the investigative bodies recognize as largely 
loyal, because of the small minority, not that they think are disloyal 
but they are not sure of the people here of Japanese ancestry feel that 
if America, the land of freedom, the land of liberty, will do that to us, 
they feel somewhat uncertain as to what to do with their properties. 

They don't feel completely free to leave them in trust. They don't 
feel at present simply that they should abandon them. So I would 
recommend that certain assistant custodians, if necessary, or certain 
certified known loyal Japanese, Nisei citizens, be delegated to receive 
the assignment of these crops, to receive the custodianship of these 
crops by their fellow Japanese citizens, if it must be tliej^ have to go. 

You would get a more orderly evacuation. You will get a speedier 
evacuation ; and you will get a far more willing response. We feel 
that we should cooperate. We are cooperating. 

Recently, I called a man in Chicago about this matter of evacuation 
and he said, ''Joe, if they wanted my building today, if the Army 
wanted my equipment, I would give it to them willingly. If they 
wanted my services, I would go." That is our position also. If they 
wanted anything of us, as citizens, if they wanted us, our physical 
being for military duty, or for any other duty necessary to this 
Nation, we would give it willingly and gladly. But when they ask a 
citizen who has not, up to now, questioned any of the sanctities that 
we have here with our liberties, when they ask us to evacuate, that, 
I say is a denial of our citizenship. 

EFFECT OF UNCEETAINTY ON PRODUCTION 

In connection with that, I think even from an evacuation point of 
view, some consideration should be given to the total over-aU picture. 
Should we hurt our defense efforts by quarantining and requiring 
watchmen and large outlays of expense to immobilize the working 
group of people who can produce for the defense effort? It would 
appear to me that it would be far more intelligent, from a purely 
productive basis, if there were some disloyal Japanese, to put a guard 
on them in the areas where they can produce and make them produce 
twice as much, instead of spending the large outlays of money neces- 
sary to quarrantine them and reduce our defense effort, reduce our 
war effort, reduce the actual production of tomato juice, for instance, 
by the amount that you take away from production. 

Not only in that sense would this be valuable, but many of the 
officials, many of the merchants, are alarmed that many farmers are 
not now putting in their entire efforts for greater production. If the 
things I suggest were coordinated, and a few selected Nisei were told 
now, not after the war, and not by any certificating board later, but 
before the damage is done, if a few were pointed out now, the entire 
district in which those few were residing would continue their produc- 
tion on an all-out basis, knowing that one of their group would not try 
to take the entire business away from them; that they could go and 
they could see that their interests would be looked after. 

I feel that the analogy of trying to get a man to work hard, plant 
more crops, produce all he can, with a threat of evacuation hanging 
over him, is like telling a man to polish up his car, to fix up the motor, 
the finance company is going to take it, and maybe he will get a little 



11708 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

equity, but maybe he won't. And whether a man is a Jap or anything 
else, it is against all human nature to expect that he will put his heart 
and soul into that effort. If the entire program were predicated on 
the basis of making the most of the Japanese situation, rather than to 
kick them all out regardless of whether they have a consistent record 
of loyalty for 30 years or not, I think that you would accomplish all 
that you want much more speedily, much more rapidly and efficiently, 
and much more happily for our entire war effort. 

Mr, Arnold. Do you feel, Mr. Shinoda, that there should be an 
alien property custodian appointed imm.ediately and do you believe 
that your Japanese group would feel better if he could have on his 
staff a Nisei who woidd look after the Japanese property in detail? 

Mr. Shinoda. Yes; I do. 

Mr. Arnold. You are also advocating that some Japanese be 
allowed to remain and engage in farming and also in business? 

Mr. Shinoda. I would say only those who were necessary to con- 
tinue the farming operations and the related lines. 

Mr. Arnold. What about their safety? I don't mean especially 
from attacks by the white race, but from the Filipinos or others with 
whom Japan is at war? We have heard rumors of conflict between 
Filipinos and Japanese along the coast. 

WOULD FEEL SAFER IN PRESENT ENVtRONMENT 

Mr. Shinoda. I was born in Alameda County some 33 years ago; 
I went to grammar school in Alameda County ; I went to high school 
m Los Angeles County, and graduated at college here. By and large 
1 would rather depend upon my friends here, upon the people I have 
known for 30 years, rather than to risk evacuation. 

Furthermore, in our Alameda County, we still have a large establish- 
ment, and it may assist the group to know that we have employed 
there some 12 Filipino boys. The Filipinos have taken us, having 
known us for a long time, as Americans and they have come forward 
and asked that they be employed. There is a very good emi^loyer- 
employee relationship. Personally I don't fear for my safety here 
among Calif ornians who know us, who have seen many Japs and who 
would not feel that an imperial army representative arrived every 
time they saw a strange face. I would feel much safer here, from a 
protection standpoint, but I also feel that even if the legal aspects of 
our civil liberties are more or less in the state of suspension, the 
average human being in Los Angeles County is to be depended upon. 
I haven't lost entire faith in the human beings here if sometimes I do 
doubt what they have done to us. 

I think that in time to come the complete and utter disregard for 
our right to make a living, to share in the defense effort in this area 
where we make our homes, where we pay our taxes will some day 
appear as a very black page in American history. 

Mr. Arnold. Of course, there haven't been many casualty lists 
printed yet, but suppose the war should soon move to Australia and 
say, 25,000 or 50,000 American boys were killed, and there would only 
be left here perhaps several hundred Japanese in this area, do you still 
think there would be sufficient protection? 

Mr. Tanaka. May I point out that Mr. Shinoda's views were to 
call to your attention what he thought would be an effective and 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11709 

speedy manner of evacuation and resettlement; and that when he 
places the emphasis, there is no intent on his part to say that the 
policy already outlined and amiounced is wrong. 

I have a plan here whicli I would like to give to the committee. It 
is a plan for resettlement submitted by the United Citizens Federation. 

Mr. Arnold. I would be glad to have those for the record. Just 
give them to the reporter. 

WANTS RIGHT TO PROVE LOYALTY 

Mr. Shinoda. Answering your question as to what I think would 
happen if these casualty lists came in from Australia, I feel that if 
this war is not on a race basis, but on a clash of national interests, if 
there are Chinese still remaining, and there are Koreans still remain- 
ing, it is not impossible that loyal Japanese could not remain; and 
those of us who are perfectly willing to stake our lives and our futures 
on the American way will stake also our safety here. 

As to what I said, I didn't intend to make any reflection on Mr. 
Tanaka. Wliat I mean to say is that while I do believe the general 
policy is right, that making the basis of evacuation a matter of dis- 
loyalty is something that any right-thinking American citizen is 
entitled to a hearing upon. Even if you take a piece of tangible 
property from a man, even with only a $50 value, the Constitution 
protects him in its provision that due process of law be exercised 
before this is done. 

But when you evacuate an entire group, when you evacuate 
everyone without regard to loyalty or anything else, you take an 
American citizen's most precious possession away from him without 
any due process of law. 

Wlien you deny the rights of citizenship and tell him that he can't 
even participate in the war effort by producing, let us say, more 
tomatoes, you are taking away from a citizen his most precious 
property, intangible property, to be sure, but you are questioning his 
loyalty, and I think that since our Constitution even now would 
protect us from dispossession and confiscation, it would be only fair 
to give us some consideration or some form of trial so that at least 
when we leave we don't leave under the cloud of disloyalty. 

Mr. Curtis. May I say something right there. I don't believe 
anything will be gained by assuming that everyone who has to be 
evacuated is disloyal. These military decisions must be made upon 
the basis of the best judgment of those military authorities who are 
in charge. All the rest of us will have to comply. It will be tough, 
it will be cruel, there will be hardships. 

Sherman had an idea of what was war, but that was a long time ago 
and it is old-fashioned. But that is going to fall upon every American. 

I live in a little town of 1,700 people. One of the car dealers there 
sells automobiles. He did sell automobiles, radios, washing machines, 
and tires. His Government at Washington says, "You can't sell any 
of those things. You can't even buy them." 

It so happens that that family has two sons in the armed forces 
and a third one about to go. Well, now, they are not sitting down at 
their supper table and talking about their liberties and their rights 
to do business and their precious things being taken away. It is one 

60396— 42— pt. 31 7 



11710 LOS A2>'GELE5 AXD 5AX FRAXCISCO HEAEIXGS 

of those things that all of us are just going to have to take on the 
ch'm and like it. 

I don't mean to seimonizey but the point is that I hope that the 
loyal Japanese tvtII feel that in complying with a mihtary situation, 
that in that very compliance you are rendering a service to your 
country. 

WA^rrS SIGHT TO PAETICrPATZ EN- WAP. EFFORT 

Mr. She^^oda. Just one point. I would like not to take issue with 
you but I would like to point it out. It is true that there has been 
some protest but please understand me. It is not on the basis of 
rights. It is not on the basis that our civil Hberties are suspended- 
It is not on the basis of what we are entitled to in rights. In my busi- 
ness it is the same. We grow flowers and flowers are unnecessary. 
We can't get the needed sprays. Some of the things take tartar 
emetic or compound of antimony. There is no more. Fertilizers are 
now going to essential vegetables. You can't get them any more. 
Th"^-^ things are ordinary. We not only expect them, we w illin gly 
'^. We don't say anything about our rights because, as you 
; -A, it is true that this is war. We have to realize that some 

01 the things in war can't be carried on efficiently and effectively if 
everybody stood upon every frill of rights. 

But the one thing that we would like to poiat out to you is that we 
are not speaking on rights. We are speaking on the denial of the 
possibility of making those sacrifices that you speak of. If we are 
e~icuated. what can we contribute to the defense effort? I can't see 
:li: there is any intelligent scheme there if they make a farmer, who 
is producing tomatoes for their vitamin content, let us say, stop pro- 
d ucnig right now. Following your line of reasoning^ it would be best 
thit he sacrifice some of his luxury items and produce tomatoes 
all-out. 

But here in evacuation the Government denies him the right to pro- 
duce those tomatoes and, iu our case, it denies us the right to close 
up our business on account of priorities. We don't have any par- 
ticipation in them. 

The gentleman you spoke of gave up his radio business. He had to. 
Or his tire business. That is not what I am kicking about. What I 
say is not right is that you deny us the right to give up our business. 
It is not exactly a matter of protest of rights ; it is a matter of denying 
us the chance to work on this entire thing as citizens. 

Mr. Aexold. Have any Japanese citizens and aliens tried to evacu- 
ate voluntarily? If so, where, and with what success? 

VOLirSTAET ETACTJATION 

Mr. Ta^taka. I would hke to call to yoiir attention that there 
has been one group reported to us, now being checked, a group of 10 
or a dozen families that have moved on to Utah. The success that 
we have had reported to date is negligible. The planning was not 
proper and it seems the reception upon arriving was none too favorable. 
i:-e group is stiU disorganized and has not been able to locate a place. 
Another small group of four or five families, we understand, have gone 
to Nevada. Undoubtedly, those examples are multipUed many 
times and are taking place today. 



XATIONAL DEFENSE l^HGRATIOS 11711 

There is one disorganized effort on tlie part of the people to Tolun- 
tarilr evacuate, to sell out their business and to resettle in inland 
cities and rural areas. 

You mentioned, sir. the Terminal Island situation and the one 
thing, of course, that I think Miss Evder of the Federal Social Security 
Board pointed out v^terday was the suddenness of the order and the 
confusion that resulted from it. 

The two big problems have been first, the pl^ce where they might 
go. The destinations have not been designated. Secondly, the 
m.atter of disposing of their property. A good deal of propertv has 
been in the form of fixed physical assets, things that cannot easilv 
be disposed of. and the pressing problem seems to be that of setting up 
ahen custodians or some means of conserving property values for the 
citizens groups also. 

This matter of not having the funds or the res^turces to get to a 
place, and the uncertainty after arriving there of not knowing whether 
or not the people have enough for getting along on, is one of our 
problems. 

LOCATION or TZS3kirS"Al. ISLAND EVACrEZ 

Mr. Aenold. Where did those people go from Terminal Island? 
Did they go inland, or did they settle here? 

Mr. Tanaka. Most of them, as I tmderstand it. are in temporary 
shelters in Los Angeles. They have been absorbed by friends and 
fa mili es. Some of them, I understand, are camping in the back yards 
of friends and relatives in Boyle Heights. Some are in the structures 
once occupied by the language schools. S<3me are in the Christian 
churches here. I don't know whether any accurate survey has been 
made of housing facilities at the present time. It is our understanding 
that the majority of them are still in thjg area here, awaiting ord^^ to 
go on. 

^lr. Arnold. Have many Japanese left or lost their jobs since 
Pearl Harbor? 

UNEMPLOTMrrNT PEOBLZM 

Mr. Tanaka. The unemployment problem has become acute, 
increasingly acute in the last few weeks, and that dismissals and loss 
of jobs, loss of businesses, is one of our major prc»blems, 

^Ir. MiNAMi. May I bring out this: In the wholesale produce 
market since the Pearl Harbor incident, many of the aliens have been 
denied licenses by the State, and. therefore, many wholesale houses 
have had to close, throwing quite a number of employees out of jobs. 

Also, because of that incident, it has affected the retail business 
tremendously. Japanese employees have been continuously fired and 
at the present time, because of this evacuation movement, many 
stores are being sold out at quite a cheap rate of exchange and snnul- 
t^neously, the Japanese employees who are employed by Caucasians 
are continuously being released from work. 

Mr. Aexoud. Who are buying those stores? What nationaHty are 
buying those stores? 

Mr. MiNAMi. We don't have a record of that but y " " "" any 
nationahty that has connections with the wholesale pre-.. -mess. 



11712 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

In the Hawthorne territory we have records of actual cases where 
farm implements and crops have been bought at quite a cheap rate. 

Mr. Tanaka. May I point out, sir, that the fifth member of our 
panel is Sam Minami, of the Junior Produce Club. 

Mr. Tayama. May I further add about the condition at Terminal 
Island. When that order came from the Navy to evacuate within 
48 hours, there were 178 families, about 800 people, and because the 
heads of the families were fishermen, they were all interned, leaving 
women and children. At the present time, as Mr. Tanaka pointed 
out, they are at the homes of friends, churches, and the various other 
organizations. They are awaiting orders as to where to go, and be- 
cause they are women and children, they are one of the most pitiful 
cases to see. Of the 24 families that we asked aid for through Miss 
Ryder, only 16 received actual aid. I know from the financial report 
that the funds of some of them have become exhausted. They have 
no means of income. If they are to be moved they must receive some 
sort of aid. 

DEPLETION OF RESOURCES FOR RELIEF 

Mr. Arnold. Does the Japanese commimity possess any resources 
to carry out emergency relief measures? 

Mr. Tanaka. The resources have gradually been and are being 
depleted. As pointed out to us by Mr. Richard Neustadt of the Social 
Security Board in San Francisco, of the $500,000 to that Government 
agency for evacuation and for removal of these people from certain 
areas, only about $5,000 of that money has been used. He was a 
little bit puzzled as to the reluctance or hesitance on the part of these 
people to apply for that. 

Through our newspaper, we know definitely that welfare funds for 
which we have been compaigning have been generously donated by 
these people and we presume — we have no definite figures to show — 
that the surpluses that these people have either built or up have accu- 
mulated as a result of disposing of their businesses is the only thing 
they have to go on. How big that is, we can only guess, but we don't 
feel that it would take them very far on the basis of evidence all 
around us at the present time. 

Mr. Arnold. We have heard up and down the coast that Japanese 
farmers have not been planting their usual acreages as a result of the 
uncertainty. What do you know about that in this area? 

Mr. Minami. That is true. The reason for that is, that as yet no 
Government custodian has been set up. I feel that if a Government 
custodian were set up immediately some of these farmers would plant 
with confidence. However, knowing that they have to evacuate 
and not knowing whether they will be compensated for their labor 
and their financial investment in the crops, they are refraining from 
planting. 

EFFECT Of'uNCERTAINTY ON FARMING OPERATIONS 

Now, since the Pearl Harbor incident, most of the Japanese agents 
have been so uncertain that they have almost refrained from planting 
completely. However, the Niseis or the Japanese-American citizens, 
feeling that they have had and would have their rights restricted, have 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11713 

been planting a certain percentage of their former crops. But now 
that the movement of evacuation is current they, too, without having 
any assurance of immediate Government custodianship, are refraining 
from phmting because they feel that instead of investing their money 
in crops, that they should save that money for future evacuation 
expenses. 

Mr. Shinoda. I don't believe, as I said before, that a mere appoint- 
ment of Government custodians would result in the immediate resump- 
tion of farm activity on an all-out basis. I have talked to farmers. 
I am classified as a farmer myself, despite my appearance of not being 
one. I don't believe that you could get that without some definite 
set-up to assure them of their continuing interest rather than an 
arbitrarily stated valuation procedure such as would be absolutely 
necessary under custodianship because any farmer who has farmed or 
bought farm produce knows that it is virtually impossible to take a 
crop over at any intermediate stage of growth short of full production 
and place a value as to the amount of money expended in that crop up 
to that point, and with such a delicate problem their simply appointing 
custodians, I don't think, would accomplish the desired result. 

Mr. Tanaka. When this problem of planting came up, the local 
nev.'spapers urged the farmers that regardless of what the imminent 
steps appeared to be, to keep on planting whether they were aliens 
or citizens. We felt that we were correct in telling these people, 
"You have a job to do in the defense effort, food will win the war and 
will write the peace, and you should trust completely the Army and 
the Government in this matter." 

I believe that essentially that is the position today, that while 
there is a good deal of confusion, nevertheless we feel that the desirable 
thing would be to continue planting so that nothing will be lost in 
food production. 

• POPULATION CONFUSED^BY^REGULATIONS 

Mr. Arnold. Let me ask you this question: Have the local Japa- 
nese populations been adequately informed as to the meaning of the 
various regulations affecting them? Do they know where to go for 
advice and how to get it? 

Mr. Tanaka. I think that possibly has been one of the weak points 
in the carrying out of regulations. Personally, I don't believe that 
we have had effective enough means to reach them. 

Mr. Arnold. Has any unnecessary hardship been created resulting 
in the confusion, whether it was intentional or unintentional? 

Mr. Tanaka. Yes; confusion has existed in this particular area. 

Mr. Arnold. Someone has touched upon the effect on Japanese 
enterprises by restrictions on their licenses, that is, by the State. 
Have there been any restrictions by the local government in licensing? 

Mr. Tanaka. None at all by the city or the county, except in 
check-ups to determine whether a person was an alien or a citizen. 

Mr. Arnold. Have your usual social contacts with the Caucasian 
citizens been disrupted because of the war? Have there been the 
same contacts with the white race as you had before? 

Mr. Slocum. No. In that instance, I would like to say that in 
some cases, anyone who is politically minded seems to have dropped 



11714 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

US, whereas, those who are truly Clii-istian or right-down good folks 
have been more sympathetic than ever before and they have gone 
out of their way to try to understand our situation. 

VETERAN OF LAST WAR 

Now, permit me to say, sir, that I happen to be a veteran, having 
had three immediate relatives in the last war, one of whom got killed 
and is buried in England. The other one got his eye knocked out at 
Vimy Ridge and is a disabled veteran, and I am, myself, a disabled 
veteran. I have four relatives in this war; three in the Canadian 
Army and one in Fort Snelling, Minn. Consequently, I am glad to 
hear Joe Shinoda's side being presented to you. 

The side that I present to you is one of a veteran's viewpoint. I 
served as sergeant major in the Three hundred and twenty-eighth 
Infantry in the same regiment with Sergeant York, of Tennessee; 
I am department chairman of a naturalization and citizenship com- 
mission for the Veterans of Foreign Wars of California, which may 
seem very funny to you, but that's where they put me. I am a mem- 
ber of the department of public relations committee for the American 
Legion, and I am chairman for the anti-Axis committee which is the 
only war cabinet ever existing in Little Tokio, so to speak. 

Such being the case, my view is one of "militantly winning the war 
pohcy." As this gentlerorn of Congress stated a little while ago, this 
is wartime so any price we pay is not high enough for us to win the war. 
That has been the policy of the anti-Axis committee. I do not mean 
to be disrespectful to Mr. Hood of the F. B. I., but I want to say this: 
That practically every member of my committee of the anti-Axis 
committee of the Japanese-American Citizens League of the Southern 
District Council has cooperated to the best of his ability at his own 
expense, time, and energy, by exposing what they term to be "sub- 
versive activity" here in our part of California. We really have. 

COOPERATION WITH FEDERAL AUTHORITIES 

.. Not only that, but if you will kindly investigate you will find that 
the anti-Axis committee has also cooperated faithfully, sincerely, and 
diligently with the United States Naval Intelligence and the United 
States Army Intelligence. In many instances when we were called 
upon to do so, we cooperated with the police and sheriff and district 
attorney. 

One thing I have stated very, very definitely to my people is this: 
Cooperate with the F. B. I., Naval Intelligence, and the Mihtary 
Intelligence. The reason for that is this: There are many reasons, 
but when we work with local or municipal intelligence services — 
I won't mention any, but you know who I mean, not the Federal, 
but the other law-enforcing agency — facts we gave in all sincerity 
were twisted sometimes and used for political purposes. That abuse 
has occurred to us many times, so I said to every member: "Now, 
look, we will cooperate with the gentlemen of unquestionable integ- 
rity," that is the F. B. I., as you stated, and Naval Intelligence. You 
take Lieutenant Commander Ringle, you take Lieutenant Commander 
Stanley, we have never gotten better treatment. My God, if it 
weren't for then- guidance and inspiration in the dark days, I don't 



NATIONAL DEFENSE IXIIGRATION 11715 

know what we would have done. They have been our counselors; 
they have been our advisei-s. My goodness, they have done every- 
thing for us. 

APPRECIATES HIS CITIZENSHIP 

Now, if I may go on a little more; sir: I happened to be born in 
Japan. Consequently, my citizenship was given to me by a special 
act of Congress. As you remember back in 1935, there was a bill 
called "Nye-Lee bill." I may have met some of you gentlemen. I 
know I called on everybody. By golly, I was a Jap. Yes, sir; we got 
that bill through and I benefited, Koreans, Chinese, and Japanese, a 
bunch of them, about 1,000 of them benefited. Consequently, having 
fought for the country and then having to fight again for my citizen- 
ship, I appreciate the meaning of citizenship. Everybody admits 
that. The most militant organization in California, the Veterans 
of Foreign Wars, made me their State chairman, which, by golly, I'm 
doing a good job, too. Check up on it. 

Not only that, Your Honor, but I want to say this: You know we 
vets think in the terms of this gentleman here. This is wartime and 
military must rule because we are dealing with a bunch of military 
cutthroats acrosss the Pacific, and we are dealing with a bunch of 
military racketeers on the other side of Europe, so we have to be just 
as tough and hard-boiled as they are. Let's be hard-boiled enough. 
It is so, folks; and, by golly, the way the war is going now, it's going to 
be awfully tough for us to win this war if we don't wake up. 

And let me tdl you, sir: if evacuation is what you want, evacuation 
is what you're going to get, and I'll lead them, by golly. Let me tell 
you, sir, no one appreciates the spiritual value of citizenship more than 
I do, because I can prove to you, I fought for it. Look it up in the 
Congressional Record. See about Tokie Slocum. 

Mr. Bender. Will the gentleman comment, if he cares to, regarding 
this: When Mayor Bowron testified before the committee yesterday 
he indicated, in substance, the thought "Beware of Greeks bearmg 
gifts." You heard that statement. 

Mr. Slocum. I wasn't here, to be franl^ with you. 

Mr. Bender. I am reading from his testimony, for your enlighten- 
ment. I would like to have your comments or the comments of the 
gentleman from the left regarding this'stateraent of Mayor Bowron. 

As I look back on some events after the 7th of December, I am quite convinced 
that there was a large number of the Japanese population here locally who knew 
what was coming. They were setting themselves, adjusting the scene for the 
outbreak of war between this country and Japan. I think that they somewhat 
overplayed their hand. 

Prior to a year or a vear and a half ago, the relationship between the local 
Japanese population, wliich acts largely through organizations, associations of 
one kind and another, was much that of any foreign group. A\hen they had 
something to ask for they asked the local officials or local boards for what they had 
in mind. . , 

For approximately a vear before December 7 last, representatives of various 
organizations were very 'much in evidence. They apparently went out of their 
way to demonstrate their American patriotism in numerous ways. Up until the 
happenings at Pearl Harbor, most of us felt that their avowed patriotism was 
sincere, and I still believe that on the part of a large number, possibly a majority, 
it was sincere. I believe now that many of the local Japanese residents wou d do 
nothing harmful, that they appreciate the protection they have here, and the 
democracy under which they are living. However, I know of no rule, no way to 
separate those who say they are patriotic and are, in fact, loyal at heart, and those 
who say they are patriotic and, in fact, at heart are loyal to Japan. 



11716 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Now, what do you say, briefly, legarding that particular observa- 
tion where the mayor said in his statement, "I think that they some- 
what overplayed their hand." 

Mr. Slocum. That is prior to December 7? 

Mr. Bender. Yes. The observation was made to the effect that 
the Japanese population knew what was coming and knew what was 
happening and had acted during that period and consequent to that 
period in a rather intelligent manner, or they seemed to sense what 
was about to happen and were acting accordingly. 

EXPOSED SUBVERSIVE GROUP 

Mr. Slocum. Well, I would like to answer that this way: I believe 
Mayor Bowron is right to this extent; I believe that there existed in 
our midst before December 7, nefarious and vicious elements known as 
the Central Japanese Association. I believe so. 

I also think that the Japanese Association itself is a very undesirable 
element. However, please bear this in mind: That is the element 
that I fought. And it gave me great satisfaction on the night when 
war was declared and I was summoned by the Naval Intelligence and 
the F. B. I., to go over the top with them, lead them to their lair, to 
arrest the leaders. It is so. It is so, sir, that there did exist such 
influence in our midst against which I really did fight tooth and toenail, 
and by golly they don't like me. I don't care. They are in a con- 
centration zone now. It is on. However, right along I have con- 
tended that the majority of Americans of Japanese ancestry are really 
good Americans. That is, they know nothing else. It may be that 
there might be some so-called Kibies or some of those folks that went 
back there. There may be some in that bunch. They may not be 
loyal. I say they may not be. However, having believed from my 
own observation, my social relations, and so forth, I do know that the 
majority of them are good patriotic people. The very fact and very 
proof of that is "You don't hear a holler going up when your Com- 
mander in Chief, through General DeWitt, says, 'Evacuate.'" Every- 
body is willing. They want to know. They want to know where to 
go and how to go, really. Because when they get there they don't 
want to be another football, another California problem, and be 
kicked all over the place again. 

Mr. Bender. All along the Pacific coast, there has been testimony 
offered that there has not been a disposition on the part of the Japa- 
nese aliens, or the American citizens of Japanese origin, to inform the 
authorities of disloyalty and that there have been more than one or 
two rotten apples in the barrel, but the information regarding rotten 
apples in the barrel has not been readily made available to the 
authorities. 

Mr. Slocum. If I may reply to that, sir. 

As chairman of the anti-Axis committee I can speak with some 
authority on that. 

This is what I have said: "Get these rotten apples out of here; if 
you don't the whole basket is going to suffer." 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11717 

DENIES LACK OF COOPERATION WITH AUTHORITIES 

You would be surprised, sir; some of the men that I had never 
expected any cooperation from before the war — I don't know whether 
it was to save their own neck, but by golly, they certainly have come 
forward. But there has been this kind of thing: There have been 
cases of persecution. I don't know, maybe I don't like you and you 
don't like me, and maybe you want m}^ wife or I want your wife. 
There have been that kind of abuses. Really so, really so. Now, 
that kind we certainly wouldn't tolerate and we report that right back 
to the gentlemen of the F. B. I. like Mr. McCormick, in whom we have 
much trust. I hope Mr. Hood doesn't mind my using these names, 
Mr. Brown, and Mr. Finley, and other gentlemen. We try to be fair. 
We realize that this is the most that we can do. That is the most 
immediate service that we can render America in time of crisis now. 

Therefore, that is the reason we have been doing it. Really, lots 
of the people haven't been credited for what they have done and Mr. 
Hood really does not know the true picture of it because he is so big, 
he IS so way up. He doesn't see the things that are happening in the 
Japanese section maybe. Honest, we have been working; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tanaka. May we point out here, in answer to that question, 
you heard the testimony this morning of Mr. Hood who was un- 
doubtedly qualified to give you an over-all picture. As I gathered, 
to be perfectly objective, it appears true that the cooperation that the 
F. B. I. and the Intelligence Services have received from the Japanese 
has not been in proportion, or probably has not lived up to the expec- 
tations of the Federal agencies. 

However, in reaching that conclusion, at this time I think that we 
ought not to overlook the work of individual groups such as Mr, 
Slocum heads, because they have done more than their share. I 
think also in regard to the statement by Mayor Bowron of the picture 
of the resident Japanese here bending over backwards to display their 
Americanism, and show that they were loyal. Mr. Tayama happened 
to have been directing an Americanism educating program among the 
Japanese population here and he ^v^ll say a few words. 

AMERICANISM PROGRAMS 

Mr. Tayama. During the past 2 or 3 years — and I am sure Mayor 
Bowron knows it because he has been to many of our rallies — the 
Japanese American Citizens League of the Southern District Council, 
which takes in all chapters south of San Luis Obispo to the border, 
and one chapter in Phoenix, Ariz., have been conducting Americanism 
programs. During the Nisei week the theme was Americanism. 

We started out here first with an Americanism program at the 
Hollywood American Legion hall last year. I would like to point 
to another part of Mayor Bowron's testimony, where he said that 
possibly the majority of the Japanese here knew that this surprise 
attack at Pearl Harbor was coming. He appeared at our general 
meeting. Mayor Bowron said that he had full confidence in us. He 
came there, cutting out his previous engagement, to talk to the group 
there, and which at the time had about 6,000 votes in the city, and 
told us that he had every confidence in us, and if he did know that 



11718 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

among our group we knew that a surprise attack was coming, I 
believe lie should have at that time notified the proper authorities 
as to his knowledge. 

Mr. Bender. You don't have a very high opinion of politicians, 
do you? 

Mr. Shinoda. That is one thing I wanted to point out. In my 
business, I subscribe to Kiplinger's, and I read the papers, and I try 
to anticipate trends. You didn't have to be an astute student of 
world affairs to see the trend of diplomatic relations between Japan 
and the United States up to the treacherous attack on Pearl Harbor, 
even if you didn't know when the definite rupture would come. 

I think everyone was afraid that something was going to happen. 

The treaty abrogation on July 26 of 1941 was the climax of a 
steady succession of unfavorable diplomatic relations and if anyone 
had followed the trend through, from the bombing of the Panay and 
previous to that, down to Pearl Harbor, nobody could have predicted 
Pearl Harbor, but I think they would have anticipated that relations 
were getting pretty rough. I think that any businessman, with any 
intelligence, would have predicated his future course of action upon 
at least a definite rupture, but as to the bombing of Pearl Harbor, or 
as to whether we knew about it here, that is a lie. 

REALIZED WAR WAS INEVITABLE 

Mr. Slocum. Sir, I want to say this. I, for one, did believe that 
the war was inevitable between Japan and America. And I for one 
did predict that war might come in the latter part of November. 
That was merely a guess. 

At that time I thought that Japan and Russia would go to war and 
I thought the Siberian port might be frozen up by that time so that 
the Russian submarines might not be able to operate. That was my 
ground for assuming that the war might come. 

Nevertheless, what I want to drive at is this: Realizing that war 
between the United States and Japan was inevitable, I did call a 
meeting, by the request of the F. B. I., to obtain names of all the 
Japanese veterans who were then residing in this part of California 
and what was known as the Japanese Veterans Association group. 

At this meeting we had members from the American Legion, 
Veterans of Foreign Wars, the police department, sheriff's depart- 
ment, and so forth. I specifically stated to these members of the 
Japanese Veterans Association that I believed that war was inevitable 
between Japan and America before long. Since it was inevitable, I 
thought it was only right, in view of the fact that they had enjoyed the 
hospitable treatment here, that they should give me the name and 
address of every member present because if war did come they would 
be the first ones to be picked up. So in that way we got the names of 
all the veterans here, and I understand that all have been corralled. 

I am not a predictor or anything like that, but I did feel that the 
war was coming so I got the names of the members so I could help the 
Justice Department. 

Mr. Bender. I had a call last Monday from an official of the 
American Legion in another State who advocated that every person 
who was of foreign parentage, that is the Germans, Italians, and 
Japanese, should be taken into custody; and the same afternoon this 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11719 

same individual said, "Just wait a minute. If that should happen, 
then they will take me into custody, too." So he had to revise his 
attitude. 

Mr. Slocum. May I say just one word? You know we are at war 
with the Axis, nevertheless, you know we are more at war with 
Japan than anybody else. Therefore, when jou folks tell us to evac- 
uate, I think it is reasonable, because it is a military measure, and will 
you please know that, by golly, we will go, but tell us where, when, 
and how. And a lot of times a lot of us haven't got any money, so 
try to help us out, too, and put us on the right track, will you? 

Mr. Curtis. Let me say this, since your question was dnected to 
me: That is the very purpose of this hearing. 

Mr. Slocum. Fine. 

Mr. Curtis. Mistakes will be made and sometimes in war you have 
to rush too much, but I hojDe that the Government can do the best 
job possible. 

Mr. Slocum. We have confidence in America and the American 
Government. That is the reason we are going. Otherwise we will 
stay here and try to scrap it out, you bet. 

HAD NO FOREKNOWLEDGE OF WAR 

Mr. MiNAMi. Concerning our knowledge of impending war before 
December 7, may I point out this: That if such knowledge were had, 
it would certainly have been known to the Japanese leaders of our 
community. Now, if you will investigate the leaders of the Japanese 
community, you will find that prior to that war they have invested 
thousands and thousands of dollars in their business for the Christmas 
rush. Most certainly if they knew about this impending war, they 
wouldn't have invested that money. I know personally one person 
who had invested up to $20,000 and he is supposed to be one of the 
biggest leaders in our community. I know another friend of mine 
who lost everything he had, who was in the export and import busi- 
ness. I, myself, lost $500, which isn't much, but stiU it isn't anything 
to throw away. 

If we had any idea of impending war, I don't think we would have 
made that investment. 

Mr, Bender. You are familiar with some of the occurrences in 
American history that we Americans are not particularly proud of. 
I am referring particularly, to that era when the Ku Klux Klan and 
the Vigilantes were operating. You, of course, appreciate that some- 
times a proper procedure for your own protection is desirable. You 
recognize that, of course. 

Mr. Tanaka. Yes; we do. May I also point out, there is always 
an insinuation that these damned Japs were in on this plot here 
before Pearl Harbor and knew everything that was coming. 

columnists and others predicted war 

I was in Washington last November and as I recall it there was a 
columnist on the Washington Times-Herald. Is that the name of it? 

Mr. Bender. Yes. 

Mr. Tanaka. This columnist predicted to the day the outbreak of 
the war. Among the 81 people whom I met in Washington, D. C, 



11720 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

I found 79 who definitely said tliat war was inevitable, that it was 
coming. That included men on Capitol Hill and in the various de- 
partments of the Federal Government. It did not require being part 
of some insidious plot to know that war was coming. 

Mr. Arnold. Well, why didn't General Short and Admiral Kimmel 
know about it? 

Mr. Bender. For your information, some people have complained 
about democracy being clumsy and cumbersome. This committee's 
activities here for the past month has been democracy at work. If 
we were in Germany or Japan or Italy, we would come like a thief 
in the night and would exterminate, would tear away from families 
their loved ones. We would be carrying on in a wholly different 
manner. What we are trying to do, with information you are giving 
us, and with what we have received, we have transmitted it daily to 
those in authority, and the Congress of the United States, in order 
that this be done to save lives rather than lose them. We are very 
happy to have you gentlemen here this morning and give your testi- 
mony and do it in this democratic way. 

Frankly, if the United States Congress were not interested, some 
steps might have been taken that you would not have appreciated. 
In fact, you would have appreciated it less than the things that 
have already been done. 

MINORITY GROUPS FEAR EXTENSION OF DISCRIMINATION 

Mr. Slocum. That is why we say God bless America. But let nie 
say something else, if you please, sir. I see only one danger in this 
movement, sir, and that is that this possibly may set a rather danger- 
ous or vicious precedent for the future. I heard a Negro say "Maybe 
we are next." I have heard Jews say to me, "Well, you know there 
are a lot of Ku Klux Klan members in San Fernando Valley where 
I live so we may get it next." 

So I just want you gentlemen to bear in mind when you legislate 
that this is not to be a racial or a minority group legislation for 
discrimination. If you will please bear that in mind, that is all I 
ask. 

If this is to be a precedent in the future for discrimination against 
a certain racial group, maybe Jews are next, maybe the Negroes are 
next. That is the kind of things I have been hearing. 

Of course, I reported all these things to the F. B. I. and the Naval 
Intelligence, so they know all about it. 

To safeguard our future, whatever you do, please bear that in 
mind, because you will remember the case of Evangeline, Long- 
fellow's poem, how they evacuated the Frenchmen and took them 
down to Louisiana. You know what I mean. So please when you 
legislate, sir, give us a fair deal and please after the war is over we 
would like to get our citizenship back in full status. 

Mr. Bender. I might say to the gentlemen we are not interested in 
making scapegoats of any group. We are interested in treating 
everybody alike. However, you must recognize in that connection 
that there have been acts of violence committed in this State, pos- 
sibly, that have not come to the public's attention. We had a clergy- 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11721 

man yesterday tell us of many acts of violence. Under the cir- 
cumstances we are at war. You indicate from your testimony that 
war is a hateful business and we are not hating quite enough. 

Mr. Si,ocuM. That is right. 

Mr. Bender. We have got to hate some more. Now, while we are 
hating and while we are practicing this hatred, we want to do justice 
and practice love and mercy and walk humble, but you have to under- 
stand the other fellow has a machine gun in his hand and we have to 
act in accordance with that philosophy. 

Mr. Slocum. That is the very reason, sir, we are willing to abide 
by whatever you say. 

EVACUATION PROGRAM SHOULD HAVE EFFICIENT HANDLING 

Mr. Shinoda. Of course, we do have a selfish interest in saying- 
this, but I do think that we shouldn't be any more or any less astute 
than our enemies who stoop to anything and who will do anything. 
We don't have to stoop to those depths nor do these awful things that 
they have done. But at the same time if there is still any possibility 
of an over-all program of evacuation, it should be accomplished 
with the maximum of efficiency. After all, you gentlemen are here so 
we feel that although the military has control, there must be something 
being investigated, by the very presence of your committee. 

So we would like to submit that we should be at least as intelligent 
as what I would imagine the Nazis would be. I can't envision the 
Nazis quarantining the French peasantry and putting them in con- 
centration camps with necessary or highly needed German troops 
watching them. If those troops were watching them in a concentra- 
tion camp, it would appear to be the more intelligent procedure to 
me to put those same people watching them in the fields and making 
them work rather than to set up a system of control there. That is 
not only costly but removes from American production exactly that 
much plus the custodianship required, which would make it twice as 
much. 

Mr. Bender. You have heard, of course, of the acts of the Nazis 
only last week. There was 1 case we heard of where a guard was 
shot and they took 20 Frenchmen indiscriminately and shot them 
down. They don't ask questions. 

Mr. Shinoda. No. But what I had in mind was entirely this 
matter of production. 

I think if you proceeded on a plan to evacuate all aliens first and 
then evacuate any of the elements among the citizenry that are even 
slightly doubtful, you would get sufficient evacuation and that would 
remove from the locality all of the elements that would be in any way 
harmful; and yet you would leave a certain small group who could 
carry on perhaps 80 percent of the productivity of the entire group. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much, gentlemen. Your testimony 
has been very helpful. We appreciate your coming here and we 
would like to give you more time, but your time has almost been 
doubled. Thank you for coming. 

Mr. MiNAMi. We would like to submit this statement for the record. 

Mr. Arnold, Just give it to the reporter. 



11722 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

(Statement referred to above is as follows:) 

STATEMENT BY SAM MINAMI, BUSINESS MANAGER, JUNIOR 
PRODUCE CLUB OF LOS ANGELES 

The Economic Position of Japanese Citizens and Aliens in Relation to 

THE Produce Industry 

agriculture 

Through information received from farmers and various produce merchants, 
the following report is submitted : 

Since December 7, 1941, due to the uncertainty of the future status of the 
Japanese farmers and all other Japanese, planting of crops has been withheld. 
This was due to the announcement that many zones would be prohibited to the 
Japanese. However, at that time, there was still considerable planting being 
done by the Niseis, or the citizens of Japanese extraction, because they were con- 
fident that their civil rights would be respected and because they were theoreti- 
cally protected by the Constitution of the United States. 

Now, since the general opinion is that all persons will be evacuated, the crop 
planting has dropped still more. Through reports of various "field men" whose 
duty it is to keep contact with the farmers, we find that the Nisei farmers are 
refraining from planting almost completely. The estimate on the croppage 
planted by the Japanese citizens since December 7, and since rumors of evacuation 
became prevalent, has been approximately 10 to 20 percent of that which they 
would have planted under normal conditions. 

Since the combat zones have now been announced by the Army and it is under- 
stood that all Japanese, regardless of citizenship, must evacuate, undoubtedly 
all planting will cease completely. Because of the uncertainty of the future 
economic provisions it is reported that those farmers who have crops are harvesting 
such produce 2 to 3 weeks before maturity of such crops. For that reason we 
find that the wholesale produce price range is at the present time on a fairly normal 
basis. However, prices on many products have gone up which shows that the 
premature harvesting of some crops is already showing its effect. We feel that 
within the next few weeks a tremendous shortage of fresh vegetables will be 
experienced. Crops planted before December 7 are being harvested at the present 
time. Crops planted since December 7, will be harvested shortly. However, 
these crops are practically all short-tenn crops or crops which can be harvested 
in a minimum of time, and already many of these products have been harvested 
prematurely. 

A survey made of the prohibited area No. 33 in Hawthorne showed many facts 
concerning Japanese farmers. A estimated valuation of crops showed a figure of 
$500,000. This amount was raised in an area of approximately 1,500 acres by a 
total population, including children, of 1,300 Japanese. Assets which were mov- 
able was estimated at $250,000. An estimation of crop losses due to evacuation 
to date was set at 50 percent of the above amount, or $250,000. Since evacuation, 
a report was received that some of the crops have been turned over to the super- 
vision of some Caucasian Americans. A report was made that it took four 
Caucasian farmers to irrigate a section of crops which had been irrigated previously 
by one Japanese farmer and that the foreman of this section of crops did not 
know the means of distribution of these crops after harvesting. 

A newspaper article quoting Mr. W. S. Rosecrans, county defense council 
agricultural coordinator, shows that the Japanese farm about 26,000 acres in 
the Los Angeles County and produce approximately 60 percent of the county's 
weighted vegetables and approximately 40 percent of the State's production. 
A report was received indirectly from county commissioner of Los Angeles, Ryan, 
that while the Japanese farm 26,000 acres they produce a croppage equal to 
36,000 acres. 

Verbal questions asked of the Japanese farmers in the area, No. 33, showed that 
approximately 90 percent of the Japanese there had resided in the United States 
for a period of 20 years or more. Since their children were all American citizens 
it was their intention to remain in the United States permanently. 

In regards to evacuation and the feasibility of the continuation of profitable 
farming many questions and problems arises. The existence of the truck farmers 
in and about Los Angeles County is due to the fact the distribution center of the 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11723 



various produce is close to the farms themselves. If long-distance shipping of 
such truck farm produce was necessary, it could not be done profitably because of 
the various expenses involved. Freight expenses, refrigeration, spoilage, and 
many other problems would complicate the possibility of meeting the expenses. 

Of great concern to everyone in the recent past has been the inadequate amount 
of farm labor and the necessity of such in the successful program of agriculture. 
This problem of farm labor will increase tremendously as the evacuation of all 
Japanese is affected. Undoubtedly some of the evacuees will be resettled and wiU 
make up for the shortage of farm labor after resettlement. However, it is believed 
that it is impossible to resettle the total of number of the evacuees profitably. 

A small survey of an area of 733 acres in the Thermal area showed that there 
was a crop vahie of $323,500 with an evacuation loss of $237,000. 

PRODUCE MARKET BUSINESS REPORT FOR 1941 

A report from the Associated Produce Dealers and Brokers showed that there 
were a total of 84,958 carloads of produce handled by the total of American and 
Japanese firms during the year of 1941. With the rate of $500 per carload, the 
total produce handled b}' all the firms in the organization in both markets, the 
city market at Ninth and San Pedro Streets, and the Terminal market at Seventh 
and Central Avenue, reaches a total of $42,479,000. Although the amount may 
be comparatively small, the above figures do not include the amount of produce 
brought in by the farmers themselves. 

An approximate and a very conservative survey of the total amount of business 
done by the Japanese produce firms show a total of $26,470,761.47. This amount 
represents the total business of 20 Japanese produce houses plus the "yards" of 
both markets mentioned above. A survey of the firms show a total of the 
business as $15,760,761.47, and survey of the "yards" of both markets show a 
total of $10,710,000 making the amount of both as shown above. These amounts, 
however, do not take into consideration manj^ of the firms not belonging to the 
association making this survey, nor does it take into consideration the amount of 
produce sold directly to the retailers by the farmers. May it be known that these 
amounts, also, represent a business done only in the two Los Angeles wholesale 
produce markets and does not consider the wholesale, shipping, and brokerage 
business done outside of the above-mentioned city. 

A report shows that there is alread}^ some shortage of certain produce due to the 
fact that the farmers have not planted since December 7, 1941. A general fear 
of a great shortage of produce is expressed by the various firms due to the 
evacuation. 

The survey shows that there must be over 2,000 persons directly dependent 
upon the existence of the Japanese firms. Hundreds have already been released 
from their jobs, and many more are continuously being released due to the present 
war conditions. Undoubtedly manj' thousands of others are indirectly affected 
and many more will be affected by the current evacuation problem. 

A survey of the market during the few days of closing directly after the declara- 
tion of the war showed a decided increase of prices in the line of fresh vegetables 
as shown in the following pages. 

Information regarding rise in retail prices of vegetables, first figures showing price 
week preceding Dec. 7, 1941, arid second figure representing prices to which com- 
rnodities rose following declaration of war and the ensuing closing of many whole- 
sale houses in the produce markets — Information received by local 1510, Feb. 21, 
1942, from managers named 



CENTRAL 


DRIVE-IN MARKET, 
CALIF., 


5200 LANKERSHIM BLVD., 
S. IWAHASHI, MANAGER 


NORTH HOLLYWOOD, 




Price, week preceding 


Dec. 7 


Price rise following Dec. 7 


Lettuce - 


10 cents per head - 


15 cents per head. 


Carrots 




3 bunches for 10 cents. . 




5 cents per bunch. 


Celory— - - 




25 cents per stalk. 




6 pounds for 25 cents 


5 pounds for 25 cents. 


Spinach 


3 bunches for 10 cents 


2 bunches for 9 cents. 


Beets - - --- 


do -- 


Do. 


Cabbace 




4 cents per pound ... 


5 cents per pound. 









11724 



LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



Information regarding rise in retail prices of vegetables, first figures showing price 
week preceding Dec. 7, 194i, and second figure representing prices to which com- 
modities rose following declaration of war and the ensuing closing of many whole- 
sale houses in the produce markets- — Information received hy local 1510, Feb. 21, 
1942, from managers named — Continued 



McDANIELS MARKET (SAVE-RITE PRODUCE). 208 EAST VALLEY BLVD. 
CALIF., CHARLES TAMBARA, MANAGER 



ALHAMBRA 





Price, week preceding Dec. 7 


Price ris3 following Dec. 7 




5 and 7 cents per head- 


10 cents per head. 




2 bushels, 8 cents.- 


7 cents per bunch. 


Celery - -- 


15 cents per stalk _. 


18 cents per stalk. 




7 pounds for 25 cents. 


6 pounds for 25 cents. 




3 bunches for 10 cents . -- 


5 cents per bunch. 


Beets 


do.. __.. 


Do. 






No chanse. 




10 cents per head... 


1 8 cents per head. 




10 cents per pound 


Not obtainable. 









RADIO CENTER MARKET, 1334 NORTH VINE ST., HOLLYWOOD, CALIF., WM. FUNATSU 

MANAGER 



Lettuce.. 
Carrots.. 
Celery... 
Potatoes. 
Spinach. 



7 cents per head 

3 bunches for 10 cents 

12 cents per stalk 

7 pounds for 25 ccnts- 
3 bunches for 10 cents 
3 cents per pound 



10 cents per head. 
5 cents per bunch. 
15 cents per stalk. 
4 pounds for 19 cents. 
2 hunches for 9 cents. 
4 cents per pound. 



Several persons in the stores listed stated that some vegetables could not be 
had for a short time after December 7, 1941. Top prices continued for several 
days, until wholesale markets were reopened. 

We believe that the markets listed and the prices represent the average per- 
centage of rise in prices in vegetable stands throughout the city of Los Angeles and 
vicinity. 

We were informed that the price of fruit did not change to any noticeable 
degree during same period. 

Retail fruit and vegetable stores, Los Angeles County 

Total number of retail fruit and vegetable stores operated by 

Japanese !> 000 

Average number of employees in one store 5 

Total number of Japanese engaged in retail fruit and vegetable stores 5, 000 

Approximate yearly gross sales from Japanese operated stores $25, 000, 000 

Remarks: It is estimated that approximately 75 percent of all retail fruit and 
vegetable stores in Los Angeles County are operated by Japanese. 

Due to the special skills of the Japanese in cleansing and displaying green vege- 
tables and fruits there is a great saving of waste products. 

Gardening, Los Angeles County 

Approximate number of Japanese gardeners in Los Angeles County. _ 2, 000 

Average monthly income per gardener $125 

Total average monthly income $250, 000 

Total yearly income $3,000,000 

Average number of homes serviced by 1 gardener 12 

Total number of home serviced by Japanese gardeners in Los Angeles 

County 24,000 

Remarks: The maintenance and care of yards and gardens of approximately 
25,000 homes will be affected with the removal of Japanese gardeners. 

A special skill acquired by these gardeners makes them quite irreplaceable. 

It is an acknowledged fact that the Japanese are well suited for this type of 
work and are considered the best available. 

Restaurants and cafes. — Approximate number of Japanese-operated restaurants 
and cafes, 350. Approximately 80 percent of these Japanese-operated restaurants 
and cafes cater to the American public. The majority of these cafes and res- 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11725 

taurants are located near concentrated employment centers and cater exclusively 
to American trade. 

Hotels and apartments. — Number of Japanese-operated hotels and apartments, 
395 in Los Angeles County. Approximately 75 percent of these Japanese-oper- 
ated hotels and apartments cater to the American public. The majority of the 
hotels are of the transient type. Ninety percent of these Japanese-operated 
hotels and apartments are located in metropolitan Los Angeles. 

TESTIMONY OF DR. THOMAS MANN, 1550 SAN REMO DRIVE, 
PACIFIC PALISADES, CALIF., AND DR. BRUNO FRANK, 513 
NORTH CAMDEN DRIVE, BEVERLY HILLS, CALIF. 

Mr. Arnold. Dr. Mann, you and Dr. Frank need, of course, no 
introduction, but for the record the committee would hke to have you 
give your name, address, and occupation so that the record might be 
complete. 

Dr. Mann. My name is Thomas Mann. I am living now in Pacific 
Palisades, No. 1550 San Remo Drive. 

Mr. Arnold. Doctor, will you give us for the record your occupa- 
tion and a little background? 

Dr. Mann. I am a writer, sir; author, novelist, essayist, and 
lecturer. 

Mr. Arnold. Ai-e you a native American? 

Dr. Mann. No, su-. I was born in Germany. I lived a long time 
in Munich where I studied and married. I left Germany in the 
year 1933 just before Hitler came to power. Then I lived 5 years in 
Switzerland before I came over to America. 

I came over to America first in the year 1934 for a short visit and 
I visited America each year after that. I came over to settle definitely 
in this country in the year 1938. 

I followed my vocation of lecturing at the University of Princeton. 
I did that for Iwo winters. It was only for 1 year first, but it was 
prolonged for the second year. 

Then I made the acquaintanceship of Cahfornia and came out here 
to settle. We have our home in Pacific Pahsades. 

Mr. Bender. Dr. Mann, I would like to ask you about the Munich 
conference, but I won't. 

One of the questions which has come to our attention during our 
hearings in San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle, has been the effect 
of the evacuation order on refugees from Axis countries. We are 
interested in hearing from yourself and Dr. Frank your views and 
observations. 

The committee would hke to have you proceed in your own way, 
Dr. Mann, and then we will hear from Dr. Frank. We understand 
that you happen to be a Czech. 

Dr. Mann. Yes. 

Mr. Bender. And are not yourself affected by the recent alien- 
control regulation. 

Dr. Mann. Correct. 

Mr. Bender. Would you proceed in your own way. 

Dr. Mann. Thank you very much. 

I really feel highly honored to have the opportunity to take part 
in this meeting, the subject of which has been close to my heart since 
the problem arose. It is close to my heart not only because it is of 
so vital, moral, and material importance for the people it concerns, 

60396 — 42— pt. 31 8 



11726 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

but also because only a fair solution would be worthy of this great 
Nation which is fighting for freedom and human dignity. 

I would like to add that, certainly, the behavior of a war-waging 
nation against her emigrees has something to do with the good fighting 
spirit of that nation. It is the frightening example of France I had in 
mind. A nation which seeks and enjoys victory over the rnost 
intimate and most natural enemies does not seem to be in the happiest 
psychological condition to meet these enemies. 

I realize, of course, that in times of crisis no natural inclination to 
generosity and kindness can be allowed to imperil the safety of the 
country, and certainly it is not easy to find a general solution which 
does justice to both sides, the refugees and the interests of the country 
at war. As a matter of fact, we have to face an absolutely paradoxical 
situation, such as perhaps never existed before. We have to deal 
with people who by their bu-th and descent, if their case is treated 
mechanically, fall under the category of "enemy aliens," but who are 
in fact the most passionate adversaries of the European governments 
this country is at war with, and who left their native lands in protest 
against the political systems ruling there, or were forced to leave it. 
Most of them lost the citizenship of their original countries, and even 
formally cannot be regarded as nationals of a country with which 
they do not have the slightest connection. So in this war, the idea 
and characteristic of "enemy ahen" has lost its logical justification 
in the case of the German and Italian emigrees. 

Perhaps it is not superfluous to add that I, personally, am not 
affected for the reason that when I was deprived of my German citi- 
zenship. President Benes of C5;echoslovakia was generous enough to 
make me a Czech citizen; so I am a friendly alien, even technically, 
but only by chance. And I have imagination enough to understand 
the feelings of these victims of national socialism and fascism who 
were seeking refuge and freedom to breathe in this great democracy, 
and would be only too happy to do their share in the work of defense, 
but now find themselves under suspicion and subjected to special reg- 
ulations which, for many of them., would mean a deadly catastrophe, 
the collapse of their newly and painfully rebuilt existence. For that 
reason, just some weeks ago I decided to join a few prominent emi- 
grants from Italy and Germany in sending a telegram to the President 
of the United States, in which we expressed the same feelings and 
ideas I am trying to develop today. I give you the names of the 
signers of this telegram; they were the Italians, Arturo Toscanini, 
Count Carlo Sforza, and Professor Borgese, and the Germans, Bruno 
Walter, Albert Einstein, my friend Dr. Frank, and myself. With the 
exception of Toscanini, all these men are either already American citi- 
zens or friendly aliens, but all of them felt obligated to act for their 
countrymen, and to ask the President to bring about, in some way, a 
clear and practical distinction between potential fifth columnists and 
people who are the victims and proven opponents of the powers with 
which America is at war today. 

I really do not feel that the difficulties for establishing such a dis- 
tinction are insurmountable. Other groups of aliens like the Austrians 
Czechs, and so on, have already been excepted. It is certainly not 
my intention to say anything against the loyalty of these groups, 
but so much may be said that in no other group so many reasons 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11727 

speak for a passionate desire for Hitler's defeat, as in the case of 
German and Italian refugees. So I thiiik that where it can be in- 
contestably proven that a person is a refugee, a victim of Nazi oppres- 
sion, an exception should be made, and the questionnaire of the regis- 
tration form has already given, by its point 15, the authorities the 
necessary material for clarification. Moreover, there can be no doubt 
that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has carefidly observed all 
aliens for quite some time, and has proven to be very well informed 
about their behavior and intentions. Whoever is individually sus- 
picious will doubtless be taken care of, and it should not be diflicult 
to find out all cases needing clarification. In my opinion it would be 
worth while to investigate a number of cases, which certainly would 
not be very considerable, instead of taking radical measures against 
the entirety of the refugees. All of us know that the burning problem 
on the west coast is the question of the Japanese. It would be a great 
misfortune if the regulations, perhaps necessary in their case — it is 
not my business to talk about the Japanese problem — would be applied 
to the German and Italian refugees, even with the intention of revising 
single cases later. For, as I have already mentioned, in many cases 
irreparable harm would be done to perfectly harmless and loyal 
persons. I think this should and could be avoided, and I am certain 
that other members of this meeting will make more concrete and 
practical propositions. In speaking for the refugees it is not only their 
interests I am visualizing. Every day it becomes more urgent that all 
available forces be put into the service of the country, and there are 
certainly many of the refugees who instead of becoming a burden to 
themselves and the country could be of valuable help in the struggle 
until victory. 

Mr. Bender. Doctor, I am appreciating that your position is 
rather delicate by virtue of your Czech citizenship. I would like to 
ask you a number of questions and if you desire to answer all right, 
and if not it will be perfectly all right. 

Are you acquainted personally with a Dr. Fritz Baum? 

Dr. Mann. No; I don't know him. 

Mr. Bender. Who is the husband of the daughter of Albert J. 
Berridge? 

Dr. Mann. Sorry; I don't know. 

Mr. Bender. Are you acquainted personally at all with Dr. Frank 
Zigmund, who is a scientist and inventor? He is a Czech citizen. 

Dr. Mann. It seems to me that I remember the name but surely I 
never met him. 

Mr. Bender. Do you know the Czech language, Doctor? 

Dr. Mann. No; I don't. 

Mr. Bender. In regard to this question of alien enemies, your 
impression is that everybody who is labeled that way is not necessarily 
an enemy? 

Dr. Mann. No ; surely not. 

Mr. Bender. And you believe, from your observation, that possibly 
we might have additional facilities for handling that problem? 

Dr. Mann. I think so. 

Mr. Bender. In expediting the just treatment of these cases? 

Dr. Mann. Yes; I think so. I am sure that some way will be 
found. 



11728 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Bender. You believe that there are many alleged enemy 
aliens incarcerated in detention places that might be of service in this 
war effort in the event that this could be expedited? 

Dr. Mann. That is very probable; yes. 

Mr. Bender. What percentage of the Jewish refugees are classi- 
fied as enemy aliens? For example, from Germany, Czechoslovakia, 
Rumania, and other places. 

Dr. Mann. What percentage? 

Mr. Bender. What percentage of them? 

Dr. Mann. Of Jewish descent? 

Air. Bender. Yes; that are now being held by the United States 
Government who might be extremely useful in this war effort in the 
event of such expediting? 

Dr. Frank, would you care to answer that question? 

Dr. Frank. Well, perhaps I can. 

Mr. Bender. Doctor, before you speak, I wish you would identify 
yourself. It is the committee's understanding that you are an officer 
of a refugee organization and are deeply concerned with alien-control 
rulings and that you have given the problem some thought. 

Dr. Frank. Yes, I have. 

Mr. Bender. First, for the record, will you identify yourself? 

Dr. Frank. My name is Bruno Frank. I am by prof ession a writer. 
I live at 513 North Camden Drive in Beverly Hills. 

Mr. Bender. Under what circumstances did you come to this 
country? 

Dr. Frank. I left Germany in February 1933 the very first day 
after the legal government was overthrown, because very probably I 
wouldn't have survived the second day. 

Mr. Bender. We would like to have you discuss the problern that 
we are particularly interested in at the moment, as it affects anti-Axis 
refugees who happen to be citizens of enemy countries. 

Dr. Frank. Yes. 

Mr. Bender. Will you proceed in your own way? 

Dr. Frank. I am appearmg before your committee, most thankful 
for the honor bestowed upon me, and let me add this at once, with a 
deep feeling of confidence: 

Ever since the question of the evacuation of enemy aliens arose, 
there has been much consternation and fear among the German and 
Italian refugees out here. Many of them remember how, in a mornent 
of frantic confusion, the Government of France treated the exiles, 
and they are afraid the same things might happen again. They 
already see their last and only hope gone. 

May I franklv sav that I personally could never share these dreads 
for a smgle mornentl^ No, the victims of that hateful oppression won't 
be confounded with the oppressors. The bitterest and most con- 
sistent foes of nazi-ism and fascism won't be treated the same way as 
Nazis and Fascists themselves. Not in this country. Not under the 
great President of this Republic; not under its Congress, which is the 
strongest remaining fortress of constitutional freedom in the world ; not ^ 
under its Department of Justice, whose humane and enlightened utter- 
ances we have heard; and not, certainly not, under its military men. 
For these are not Prussian generals shaped after the pattern of some 
unspeakable "Fuehrer." They are American citizers proudly wearing 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11729 

their uniforms in defense of the same hberties, the loss of which has 
driven the refugees out of their homeland. 

Thus my confidence was greatly strengthened when 1 saw the regis- 
tration questionnau-e, which so clearly indicated the intentions of the 
American Government. For here the fullest opportunity was offered 
to each German or Italian refugee for stating whether he left his coun- 
try because of racial, religious, or political persecution and for narnmg 
such trustworthy persons who could vouch for his loyalty. This, I 
feel sure, was not done without good reason and purpose. 

And there is still stronger evidence. Before the war, about a v'ear 
and a half ago, a number of refugees, then trapped in defeated France, 
were saved by a magnanimous action of your Government. Among 
them were emment statesmen, scientists, artists, writers. Under the 
auspices of the Presidential Advisory Committee, emergency visas 
were granted to them, and so they were, in the nick of time, snatched 
from immediate peril. How then could anyone imagine that these 
same people, who by the American Government were recognized as 
stanch democratic fighters against the Nazis, should now be branded 
as enemy aliens by the same Government? 

But, sir, I am not so much concerned about those outstanding men, 
when, for mstance, I read that Arturo Toscanini, before going from 
New York to Philadelphia in order to conduct a concert for the War 
Relief Fund or the Red Cross, has to ask for a permit because he is 
technically an enemy alien — then I think this an odd story. But 1 
am not afraid for Signor Toscanini. Not much will happen to him. 
A great name, or even a well-known name, shields a man from hard- 
ship. Ill 

I am concerned about the so-called average man or woman, the little 
fellow who, after long and terrible sufferings, having lost situation, 
property, and, more often than not, those dearest to him, has finally 
found here a haver of rest and ultimate hope. 

As it is always more instructive to give a concrete and living example 
than to speak in generalities, let me present to you, sir, an average 
case among many, nothing particularly striking, but typical for those 
refugees who now hve in deadly fear to be branded as enemies. 

In a family I happen to know they have a housemaid, a Jewish girl, 
kind, honest, hardworking. She alone of her kin has escaped from 
Germany, and it is her only longing to save and to bring to these shores 
her old parents she was forced to leave behind. 

She comes from a small town in northern Germany, where 80 
Jewish families have been living for more than 600 years. It- 
was one of the oldest communities. Now the Nazis have uprooted 
these people, they have burnt their synagogue to the ground, trampled 
under foot and swinishly soiled their sacred books, and desecrated 
their graveyard. Of the 80 families 3 are left. The rest have been 
exterminated, dispersed, or have been "removed to Poland." "What 
this expression means, sir, you most certainly know. It was perfectly 
illustrated by those horrid pictures in last week's Life magazine, show- 
ing heaps of naked, emaciated corpses, piled upon one another hke so 
much rubbish, ready to be flung into the common pit. 

The two old people over there live under the constant threat of 
being carried awav to that hell. Get the money for leaving the 
country— or else— they are told. Their daughter saves every penny 



11730 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

she makes for their passage and for tiie bribes— for every sine:le one 
of those Nazi srangs has to be bribed separately. But each time she 
offers her savings, she is told it is not erough. Transportation costs 
have gone up, and so have the bribes. 

The girl knows what a life her parents have over there. They live 
in one windowless room. They are not allowed to go out in the day- 
time. They are not allowed to burn light at night. They are not 
allowed to use a phone or a radio, or to ride on the train, or to sit on a 
bench in the park. 

Don't lose patience, writes the girl (or, rather, she wrote, because 
now of course she cannot write any more). Don't despair. One 
day my money will be enough. Then you will come here. This is 
heaven. One lives among friends here. I shall work for you, and 
you will live peaceful j^ears. 

Well, sir, what should she write now, if write she could? I am no 
longer among friends? I am branded as an enemy now, just as the 
beasts who are torturing you. Forget all about it. It was but a 
dream. Go to Poland, and die. 

No, sir, she won't have to write thus. Not here. 

Your Government, sir, is acutely aware of the gulf that separates 
the victims from the oppressors. They have already exempted dif- 
ferent groups from being classified as enemy aliens, for instance, the 
Czechs and the Austrians. Nothing could be mere justified, more 
appropriate. And though, when exempting these groups, the At- 
torney General most certainly realized that among the holders of 
Czech passports are those so-called Sudetens, who plotted with the 
Nazi aggressors; and that among the holders of Austrian passports are 
those Austrian Nazis who opened the gates of Vienna to Hitler. 
These facts, most fairly, were not considered a reason for impairing 
the rights of the enormous m.ajority of loyal Austrians and Czechs. 
If any of the suspect elements were to be found in this country, the 
F. B. I., I am sure, would make short shrift of them. 

But, sir, the only group where even such loathsome exceptions are 
most unlikely to be found, are the refugees from Germany, the very 
victims and proven opponents of Hitler. 

Nearly all of them have been deprived of their nationality, either by 
individual decree or by groups. This means they have been outlawed 
and officially robbed of all they possessed. All of them, or next to all, 
have, under their oath, declared that they will sever allegiance to the 
debased land of their origin as soon as the American law will allow 
them to do so. There is absolutely no relationship left between them 
and the Nazis, none but bitter, implacable hatred. 

Never, as far as my knowledge goes, has there been one single case 
of a refugee conspiring with or working for the enemy. In France 
there have been at least 20 times more refugees than in the United 
States. Not a single case has occurred. And the same goes for 
England. 

In England, as I take it from the excellent information furnished by 
our expert in this matter. Dr. Felix Guggenheim, examination boards 
were set up, which exempted all genuine refugees from restrictions. 
However, when the Nazis came within 20 miles of England's shores, 
restrictions were suddenly tightened. But, under the very bombs 
of the aggressors, public opinion and the House of Commons protested 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11731 

violently and they did not give way until the position of the refugees 
had been restored. Today all these exiled scientists, physicians, 
workers, and industrialists enthusiastically contribute to the British 
war effort against the common foe. i^nd in tiieir registration certif- 
icates, in order to identify them as allies, these words are stamped, 
"Victim of Nazi oppression." 

Now, as I pointed out, the number of refugees in this country is 
very much smaller. In the Los Angeles area, for instance, where 
accumulation is relatively dense, there are about 4,000 — that is one- 
hfth of 1 percent of the population. The number of 4,000 individuals 
is equivalent to 1,000 or 1,200 family units. The task of investigating 
this number, and so to avoid the tragic consequences of wrong classi- 
fif'ajiion. would not be a heavy one. 

ior, since the registration, which in my opinion came as a godsend, 
the exact data about any single one of these cases are in the hands 
of the F. B. I. The vast majority of them will be clarified at once. 
There might be a few border cases, especially among gf utile refugees 
who left Nazi Germany out ol sheer horror and disgust, and who, 
being gentiles, were not honored by the Hitler regime with expa- 
triation . 

An examination board, sir, should be set up at once. I cannot pre- 
sume to suggest how such a board should be composed. The only 
thing I feef allowed to propose is that, in an advisory capacity, one 
or several aliens with a sound knowledge of the matter, and enjoying 
the confidence of both the authorities and their fellow refugees, should 
be associated to, it. 

Pending final regulation, a hcensing system could be established in 
the military zone No. 1, not in any contradiction but in fidlest ac- 
cordance with Genercl Dv^Witt's ^proclamation. The spot zones, 
naturally, designated as such, would be excluded. 

But now, sir, here comes my plea, and most ardent it is. Please 
don't delay. Take the anguish off the minds of those harassed people 
as soon as ever possible. 

The idea has been proffered, I am told, that at first the refugees 
should be evacuated as enem.y ahens, and that later on, by and by, 
individual readmission might be granted. Sir, that woidd never do. 
Such a procedure would spell disaster. Once removed, these people 
would be lost. The frail roots they have taken in this soil would be 
cut oft\ Tbev would lose their jobs, their small businesses, and, most 
important of all, the friendly contact they have established with tbeir 
American neighbors. Should they ever come back, perhaps after 
many months^ they woidd be unwelcome strangers a2:ain, looked at 
with suspicion as people who once have been stigmatized and taken 
awav as potential enemies. 

Not all of them, sir, would have the strength for startmg afresh, 
not many of them. They have been through too much. I don't 
want to dramatize, but I "know that, if such steps were taken, there 
would be suicides before long. 

Afay I add one final word, sir? I could imagine some people say- 
ing: All this may be true, but this is a world war. Our country faces 
the gravest crisis in her history. We are sending our husbands and 
sons to distant shores to fight and, maybe, to die. Why should we 
care for a handful of foreigners? 



11732 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

I don't know whether anybody in this country speaks like that. 
I'd rather think not. But, if so, this wouki be the answer: 

These foreigners have fought against the same hideous foe as your 
boys. They still bear the scars on their bodies and souls. There is 
hardly anyone among them who has not lost relatives and friends by 
the same brutish hands. No group, by its hatred of evil and its love 
of freedom, could be closer united in spirit to the American soldier 
than these very people. 

Mr. Bender. Doctor, is the United States Government making 
sufficient use of your services, and Dr. Mann, of yours, and your 
associates who were in similar positions or are in similar positions to 
yours? Is there anything that you could assist with further that we 
might suggest to the United States Government that they might .call 
on you for additional services other than those which you have 
already been called upon to render? 

Dr. Mann. Well, I am only awaiting a call from the Government. 
I would be absolutely at the service of the Government. At present 
my defense work is more or less personal because I am going over the 
country and lecturing in many cities about the problems of the war 
and of the coming peace. That is my moderate contribution to the 
public service. 

Mr. Arnold. Dr. Mann, I might say that in my district in Illinois, 
about one-third of my constituents are of German descent, mostly 
American citizens, but several of whom, prior to Pearl Harbor, were 
sympathetic, apparently, with Mr. Hitler. I might utilize your 
services this fall in the campaign. 

Mr. Bender. Recognizing the condition that you speak of. Dr. 
Frank and Dr. Mann, do you not think that for one of these alleged 
enemy aliens or any of that group to be incarcerated in these immi- 
gration detention centers, or in any other place, even in their plight, 
is like Heaven, compared to the alleged freedom of their existence 
over in Europe under Axis domination? 

Dr. Frank. Yes; I certainly would prefer the life in an American 
prison to free life in Germany or even in France today. This, I admit. 
But I don't wish it for them. They wouldn't survive. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much, gentlemen. We appreciate 
having you come here before the committee. We will take a 2-minute 
recess. 

(Short recess.) 

Mr. Arnold. The committee will come to order. We will hear one 
more witness, if he is here. Dr. Felix Guggenheim. The committee 
will recess for approximately 45 minutes after we hear Dr. Guggen- 
heim. 

Mr. Curtis. Mr. Reporter, before we hear Dr. Guggenheim, is 
Courtney Lacey in the room? 

He is not here; if you will insert his statement in the record, then we 
will proceed. 

(The statement referred to above is as follows:) 

Los Angeles, March 7, 19^2. 
Hon John H. Tolan, 

Chairman, Congressional Committee on Evacuation of Alien Enemies. 
Sir: During the past few days I have had conversations with several Japanese 
nationals residing in southern California. Today one of them, an influential 
businessman in Los Angeles, stated to me that he and some of his friends had been 
discussing the evacuation problem, and, according to them, it would seem: 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11733 

That the Japanese Government is willing to accept a return to Japan of those 
Japanese nationals now residing in the United States who wish to return to Japan; 
that the Japanese Government will provide transportation for them; that in the 
return of such Japanese nationals to their own country, the Japanese Government 
will return ,the interned Americans^held in Japan; the exchange, so to speak, to be 
effected on some isolated island in the mid-Pacific Ocean, or any other suitable 
location and under supervision of a neutral nation; both United States and Japan 
to guarantee safe conduct during the exchange. 

Thousands of Japanese nationals now residing in the United States wish to and 
are willing to return to Japan. The estimated number given to me by the Japa- 
nese is approximately 40,000, which includes, of course, the wives and minor 
children. 

I have been asked to submit to your honorable committee the above-proposed 
plan. 

And, in so doing, I would respectfully call your attention to the tact that 
thereby the financial burden which will rest upon our country, if we are compelled 
to indefinitely care for these Japanese nationals in concentration camps, or other- 
wise, will be greatly lessened. It will also serve to eliminate from our country 
those Japanese about whom there is or may be some question concerning their 
danger and enmity to our country. It will also serve to effect a return to their 
country and families of our own courageous soldiers, sailors, and fighting civilians 
who so valiantly sought to defend Guam, Wake, and Midway. 

Respectfully submitted. 

Courtney Lacey, 

Attorney at Law. 

TESTIMONY OF DR. FELIX GUGGENHEIM, 238 TOWER DRIVE, 
BEVERLY HILLS, CALIF. 

Mr. Curtis. Where is your residence at the present time, Mr. 
Guggenheim? 

Dr. Guggenheim. At 238 Tower Drive, Beverly Hills. 

Mr. Curtis. What is your business or occupation? 

Dr. Guggenheim. At the present time I am operating an apart- 
ment house there. 

Mr. Curtis. What does the "Doctor" indicate? 

Dr. Guggenheim. I graduated in Switzerland in economics and 
social science, and I graduated in Germany in law. 

Mr. Curtis. Ph. D., is it? 

Dr. Guggenheim. Sunilar to that. 

Mr. Curtis. Doctor, where were you born? 

Dr. Guggenheim. I was born in Constance. That is on the Swiss- 
German border. 

Mr. Curtis. And your nationality? 

Dr. Guggenheim. I am of German nationahty, expatriated. 

Mr. Curtis. And when did you come to this country? 

Dr. Guggenheim. I came to this country in 1940 and I happened 
to be in England when the same question of enemy aliens arose there 
so I have had the opportunity to go through the whole problem al- 
ready. That is the reason I should lilve to say a few words as to what 
a simple refugee, livmg in England, experienced when the question of 
distinguishing between enemy aliens and refugees came up there. 

Mr. Curtis. Now, Doctor, we want you to proceed m your own 
way, giving us the benefit of your observations in this enemy alien 
control situation, touching the high points. I don't want to limit you 
in any of the important points you wish to make, but I do want to say 
this: If you happen to have something to add to your testimony 
today, you can submit it and we will see that it is incorporated m the 
record, together with your oral testimony. 



11734 LOS ANGELES AND SAN B'RANCISCO HEARINGS 

ENGLISH TREATMENT OF ALIENS 

Dr. Guggenheim. I was in England when the war broke out in 
September 1939. The English were badly prepared in many respects, 
but Scotland Yard was on the alert and in the first days of the war, a 
great number of German spies were arrested. Many spies had been 
known to Scotland Yard for a long time but they hadn't been arrested 
before because Scotland Yard didn't want them replaced by unknown 
spies. 

A second group was arrested also: German aliens, who, before the 
war, were members of Nazi organizations in England. There and in 
all other countries as well, many Nazi and semi-Nazi societies were 
flourishing, organized openly and operating publicly. 

The English authorities, in close contact with the refugee organiza- 
tions immediately realized that the majority of so-called German 
aliens consisted of refugees persecuted by the very enemy of England. 
They realized also that it was a group distinguished from other groups. 
Therefore, they established a procedure to sift these aliens. They 
had to appear before special tribunals. Eminent judges and out- 
standing lawyers were appointed, personalities who, by long experi- 
ence, were especially suited to distinguish between harmless and 
dangerous, between genuine and fake. 

Three groups were formed: 

(a) People dangerous for political, sabotage, or spy reasons. 
Immediate internment followed. 

(6) People who, by one reason or the other, couldn't convince the 
tribunal that they were genuine refugees. They were subjected to 
special restrictions and in some parts of the country even to intern- 
ment. 

(c) People who proved their status as refugees. They got stamped 
in their certificate of registration a certain paragraph, and I would 
like to quote from my own certificate: 

The holder of this certificate is to be exempted until further order from intern- 
ment and from the special restrictions applicable to enemy aliens under the 
Aliens Order, 1920, as amended. 

The judge of the tribunal, in many cases. Sir Maxwell, added in 
his own handwriting: 

Refugee from Nazi oppression — 

and signed it. I would like to leave a photostatic copy here in 
evidence. 

Mr. Curtis. I will be glad to receive it.^ 

RESTRICTIONS ON MOVEMENT OF ALIENS 

Dr. Guggenheim. The restrictions those in group (c) had to comply 
with consisted chiefly in an obligation to report change of residence 
and to report any absence from the permanent residence for more 
than 14 days. Group (c) was treated as friendly aliens and practically 
as natural allies. Only a few hundred belonged to group (a). Only 
a few thousand eventually were classified as (b). The rest, about 
60,000, including women and children, could establish their genuine 

1 Photostat held in committee files. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11735 

refugee status, and I don't know of a single case where reclassification 
in group (c) became necessary. 

Within a few months all refugees had passed their tribunal, the 
decision, for instance in my certificate being dated November 2, 1939. 

The procedure itself was as follows: Field investigators visited each 
family, asked certain questions, and got an impression of how and 
where the family lives. Their reports, checked with the files of Scot- 
land Yard, were on the judge's table when he examined the alien. 
The job seemed to be tremendous at the beginning but the fact was 
that the percentage of harmless, uprooted people was so high that an 
experienced judge, checking the field reports and getting a personal 
impression normally had no difficulties in deciding quickly, especially 
as the aliens were asked to bring letters along from English relatives 
or friends or from other refugees of high standing and well known 
reputation. Even witnesses could appear if either the alien or the 
judge thought it advisable. The system worked without difficulties, 
especially as close cooperation existed with the refugee organizations, 
which always were able to check back, not only a few years back, but 
also the whole life history of a doubtful case. 

REFUGEES WERE NOT FIFTH COLUMNISTS 

I have to relate that after the sudden collapse of Holland, Belgium, 
and France, when England had to fight alone and for her very life, 
the Nazi armies and airplanes being within 20 miles of England's 
shores, some English authorities started an indiscriminate internment 
campaign and a tightening of restrictions. The term "fifth columnist" 
wasn't so well known as it is today. The stories coining from France 
and Holland were very confusing and it took the English a few months 
to get the facts and to understand that the fifth columnists and sabo- 
teurs in Holland, Belgium, and France (and a few weeks before in 
Norway) hadn't been the refugees, but naturalized and native citizens 
and such aliens who already before the war made no secret of their 
Nazi sympathies. Pubhc opinion in England, newspapers and mem- 
bers of the House of Commons, therefore, didn't give in until the 
refugee's position was restored. Today I get letters from refugee 
friends over there telling how gladly and successfully they contribute 
to the English war effort according to their abilities in many fields. 
Some of those refugees live on the south coast of England and face 
the Nazi threat and the Nazi bombs, together with their English 
friends. That is all I have to say. 

Mr. Curtis. Doctor, I want to compliment you on the concise and 
orderly way you have described the English system. We are very 
glad to have it for our records. Now, can you tell me about how 
many people were involved in all three classifications in England? 

Dr. Guggenheim. Between sixty and seventy thousand. 

Mr. Curtis. And you do not know how that compares with the 
total number of people, both citizen and alien, that we will have to 
deal with in this problem on the Pacific coast here, do you? 

Dr. Guggenheim. I don't quite get the question because you say 
"citizens." If you want me to talk about German ahens and the 
percentage of refugees, then I can give an answer. I can't give an 
answer about the Japanese or Italians. 



11736 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Curtis. It is well that we have this information for what guid- 
ance we can get from it. We do have some problems here involving 
legal rights of our own native-born citizens, and we also have a prob- 
lem of a cosmopolitan people made up of many, many races that form 
the American people, but we are glad to have the English experience. 

Dr. Guggenheim. Would you allow me one further remark? 

Mr. Curtis. Yes. 

Dr. Guggenheim. I think the refugee is a distinct problem for one 
reason: It is the only group I know of which can be distinguished 
easily, whereas, all other groups don't know each other so well and 
don't have the same life story as this group. That is all I want 
to say. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much, Doctor, your prepared state- 
ment will be inserted in the record at this point. 

(The statement referred to is as follows:) 

STATEMENT BY DR. FELIX GUGGENHEIM, MEMBER OF THE 

BOARD OF DIRECTORS, JEWISH CLUB OF 1933, INC., LOS ANGELES, 

CALIF. 

March 4, 1942. 

The Jewish Club of 1933, Inc., represents the majority of the Jewish part of the 
anti-Nazi refugees from central Europe, as far as they live in metropolitan Los 
Angeles and intends to educate them to fit into American life. 

In our estimate half of the number of as German classified aliens in California, 
and the majority of these aliens in Los Angeles are in fact expelled and expro- 
priated anti-Nazi refugees, who were stateless when the war broke out and who 
don't owe any allegiance to any country at war with the United States. 

These refugees whether Gentile or Jewish feel that they are wrongly classified 
and begin to realize the terrible consequences of that wrong classification. In 
the world struggle between democracy and nazi-ism they were the first martyrs 
and the first victims. They bear still the scars on their bodies or on their minds 
or on their lives or family. It would be the worst tragedy for them to suffer 
again at the hands of their natural allies with whom they hoped to have found 
a final refuge after they have suffered so much from the Nazi at a time when the 
world didn't realize that it only was the first chapter. The day— may it never 
come — when 10,000 refugees from Nazi oppression will have to leave their homes 
and jobs and small businesses on the west coast of the U. S. A. and in a sad pro- 
cession will look for relief and assistance with the stigma of enemy aliens as 
additional burden, this day would be counted by history as a first-class victory of 
Hitlerism against democracy. 

The real enemy aliens know why and for whom they are bearing hardship. 
The refugees don't have the spiritual strength and the power of endurance any 
more to suffer without understanding at the hands of their friends and allies. 

Therefore we feel obliged to offer our testimony at the hearings of the House 
committee on defense migration and would be deeply grateful if we would get an 
opportunity to present some facts regarding the following matter: 

We should like to present the experiences in France, when France made the 
terrible mistake of having detracted her attention from the fight against fifth 
columnists by fighting senselessly the loyal democratic anti-Nazi refugees in their 
midst. We would like to add how the President's Advisory Committee mter- 
vened and saved some outstanding personalities from being treated as enemy 
aliens in France, refugees who — oddly enough — now are classified as enemy aliens 
again in this country and are in danger of being expelled from California. 

We should like to present how England acted in setting up tribunals for the 
refugees, who exempted the genuine refugees from restrictions and stamped in their 
registration certificates "refugee from Nazi oppression." When the enemy came 
within 20 miles of England's shore the authorities tightened the restrictions 
suddenly but the public opinion and the House of Commons didn't give way till 
the position of the refugees had been restored — and today the refugee scientists, 
doctors, industrialists, and workers contribute gladly and successfully to the 
English war effort. 

We should like to give the facts about the stateless refugees, about the laws 
expatriating them before the war, about the registration which put the details 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11737 

about every refugee into the files of the local Federal Bureau of Investigation and 
about the registration questionnaire, which indicated the intention of treating 
separately the group of refugees from political, racial, and religious persecution. 

We should like to mention in all modesty, how valuable it would be if democ- 
racy gives special consideration where special consideration is due, and how con- 
fidence in democracy as protector of Nazi victims would grow. 

We should like to draw attention to the many outstanding personalities among 
the refugees, who in many fields want to contribute to the war effort. 

We should like to present the plan, consistent with the proclamation of General 
DeWitt, to license in the military area I (of course not in the "spot" zones) the 
genuine refugees, till they will be taken out of the enemy alien group by the ad- 
ministration, a plan in which trustworthy refugees of long standing and beyond 
suspicion could give valuable assistance. 

Mr. Arnold. We will now recess until 1:45. 

(Whereupon, at 1 p. m. an adjournment was taken until 1:45 p. m. 
of the same day.) 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



SATURDAY, MARCH 7, 1942 

House of Representatives, 
Select Committee Investigating 

National Defense Migration, 

Washington, D. C. 
The comniittee met at 1:45 p. m. 

Mr. Arnold. The committee will come to order. Capt. W. N. 
Cunningham will be our first witness this afternoon. 

TESTIMONY OF CAPT. W. N. CUNNINGHAM, INDUSTRIAL DEPART- 
MENT, UNITED STATES EMPLOYMENT SERVICE, LOS ANGELES, 
CALIF. 

Mr. Arnold. Be seated. Captain. 

Witnesses before this committee, Captain, have testified that the 
Japanese play an important part in the production of the vegetables 
in this area. Could you give us a picture of the labor situation in 
relation to demand which will arise when this group is evacuated? 

Mr. Cunningham. Well, I wiU try to, gentlemen. In the first 
place, w^e want to state that from our observation the Japanese is 
not, as he is presumed to be, a farmer, especially in this community 
and in this territory. He is a gardener on a mass scale. They have 
never patronized the Employment Service for any appreciable number 
of people. 

Our available files contain the applications of 34,000 persons. Of 
that number there is a total Japanese registration of 446. 

That represents 1.3 of our total available file of male Japanese 
workers of whom only four are listed as agricultural laborers. 

In the women's industrial department we have registered 179 
Japanese women, all of whom have insurance claims, and most of 
whom have been engaged until recently in the fish mdustry. There 
are a few other types. 

In reference to the agricultural situation, I have the acreages for 
1940-41, which I can submit to the committee. Here are the crops 
in which the Japanese largely figure in Los Angeles County: Cabbage, 
3,600 acres; carrots, cauliflower, celery, corn and vegetables of all 
types, 41,750 acres; beans, which I didn't consider as a vegetable, 
due to the fact that it is a mass crop, about 21,000 acres. 

Largely, these small acreages, which vary in size from 2 to 25 acres, 
are very intensively gardened the year around. The crops are 
rotated and almost constantly there is a crop coming on — radishes 
and small vegetables. 

That is the crop that will be afi'ectcd and the crop that will be 
difficult to replace because it is largely stoop labor. In the mass 

11739 



11740 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

crops, I see no serious labor shortage due to the evacuation of the 
Japanese or the other ahens. 

Briefly, that is a statement of the situation. I am on the farm- 
labor committee of the county and also have been charged with the 
responsibility of coordinating and facilitating the information centers 
for the aliens since February 4. 

In our contact with the Japanese during that period, especially, 
we have not uncovered any agricultural workers. They haven't 
applied for employment. As a matter of fact, I heard a statement 
this morning made by one of the Japanese that it has been very 
difficult for them to secure information as to where to go for help, 
in spite of the fact that we have given that the widest publicity. 
Those that have contacted me told me that they are just sitting 
tight; that they knew they would be evacuated. 

Mr. Arnold. Do you know how many of those persons registered 
with you who are available for agricultural labor of the type per- 
formed by the Japanese? 

Mr. Cunningham. No; I don't. I have the number that registered 
with us here. The total number at the Eighth Street office. You 
received the figures vesterday from Miss Ryder of the Federal Social 
Security Agency. That figure was 22,032. We did find that 65 
percent of the Japanese contacted are self-employed, and that is a low 
percentage. It probably runs higher than that. Mostly they work in 
agriculture. 

Mr. Arnold. The committee has heard the suggestion that women 
and children constitute a reservoir of farm labor. Do you have any 
comment, in the light of our own observation, on this proposal? 

Mr. Cunningham. Well, I have heard a lot of that during the last 
year. 

Mr. Arnold. I mean, among the Caucasians, 

Mr. Cunningham. Yes; and among the farmers themselves. In 
some crops such as deciduous and citrus crops, there will be no diffi- 
culty, I feel, in the labor supply. 

In stoop labor, it just don't make sense to me. 

CAUCASIANS WILL NOT PERFORM STOOP LABOR 

Mr. Arnold. Let me ask you: what has been your experience when 
you sent Caucasians out on stoop labor or agricultural jobs? 

Mr. Cunningham. Well, in most cases they didn't go. But where 
they did, the labor turn-over was practically 100 percent. 

Mr. Arnold. They didn't stay long? 

Mr. Cunningham. They didn't stay. 

Mr. Arnold. Have you been able to fill all demands for agricultural 
workers up to the present time? 

Mr. Cunningham. Agricultural demands on us to date have been 
very few. There is now a demand through one of our northern 
offices to tap our reservoir here for workers in the San Joaquin Valley, 
We haven't been able to fill all orders for agricultural labor due to the 
nature of some of the crops. 

Mr. Arnold. Just what do you mean by that? 

Mr. Cunningham. Well, for instance, I know that the cotton is 
not all picked in San Joaquin Valley. We have had an order of long- 
standing for cotton pickers and we haven't been able to fill it due to 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11741 

the fact that cotton picking is a pretty tough job. Up until a couple 
of years ago, cotton pickers, we said, were born and not made. The 
average American, the average individual today, prefers work in the 
defense program if he can get it, rather than agriculture work of any 
type. That is the big difficulty we have had, and are having increased 
difficulty with. 

Mr. Arnold. What has been the effect of the expanding aircraft 
factories on the available number of agricultural workers? 

Mr. Cunningham. We have in our files in the Los Angeles office, 
which, incidentally, is the largest office in the United States, actually 
registered for agricultural employment, 1,100 individuals. We have 
"a cross-percentage of the active file of 4}^ percent, based on potential 
farm employees, of 1,100, which would indicate by the widest stretch 
of the imaguiation that we have 2,150 agricultural workers in a 
file on 34,000, which is increasing daily. 

Mr. Arnold. That is, the list is increasing daily? 

Mr. Cunningham. The file of applications is increasing daily. 

Mr. Arnold. Are living accommodations on farms for seasonal 
labor acceptable to white workers? 

Mr. Cunningham. In some cases. 

Mr. Arnold. What are the normal sources of agricultural labor 
for this area? 

Mr. Cunningham. I would say for Los Angeles County the normal 
supply is the local Mexican and Filipino. The migratory worker does 
not largely affect the Los Angeles County area. There is more or less 
a permanent group in this community or county. 

Mr. Arnold. Have any plans been advanced for assuring an ample 
labor supply from now on? 

EFFORTS TO ASSURE ADEQUATE LABOR SUPPLY 

Mr. Cunningham. Yes; they are meeting constantly and discussing 
that problem, especially in the mass crops in the north. They look 
upon Los Angeles County, and this tremendous file of ours, as a po- 
tential supply. They are figuring out some of the things that they 
might do. For instance, transportation, in my opinion, is going to be 
the biggest thing that they will have to contend with. And the 
second is some training. The problem of training the right kind of 
people for the right kind of jobs has been given a lot of thought. 
They are continually giving this matter consideration, both from the 
standpoint of the Department and other Government agencies in the 
county. 

Mr. Arnold. We had a panel before us yesterday and they seemed 
very efficient. 

Mr. Cunningham. Yes; I am familiar with that group. 

Mr. Arnold. You spoke about almost a 100 percent turnover in 
agricultural stoop labor. Are the wages the only factor in that, or 
is it the type of work? 

FILIPINO AND MEXICAN STOOP LABOR 

Mr. Cunningham. No. We might take the asparagus crop which 
is being harvested now, some 62,000 acres. About 85 percent of all 

60396— 42— pt. 31 9 



11742 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

the asparagus in the United States. That labor makes a man carry 
his head practically between his knees from the time he goes to work 
in the morning until he quits. It is simply stoop labor. It is labor,, 
which Mexicans and Filipinos, with no reflection on their race, have 
adapted themselves to for years. The white man just doesn't seem 
to click there. 

Mr. Arnold. You didn't mention the Japanese. Do they do that? 

Mr. Cunningham. Outside of gardening and mass crops, they do 
some stoop labor. But in the big crops it is usually the Mexican and 
Filipino that does the bulk of the work and there are a lot of them 
working for the Japanese. 

Mr. Arnold. Well, they can perform that work for the ones who 
take over this land, the same as they do for the Japanese. 

Mr. Cunningham. There is no reason in the world why they can't. 
The people who have financed most of these crops over a long period 
of years are not in business for their health; they will see that these 
crops, to some extent at least, are harvested. 

Mr. Arnold. Do you have any idea as to what crops will be affected 
most severely by a shortage of labor if the Japanese are evacuated? 

Mr. Cunningham. The only ones that I can think of, after 10 years 
in the field of agriculture, are the smaller vegetables. Potatoes will 
not be affected. The mass crops, such as lettuce, will not be largely 
affected. But it is radishes and small crops that come into the market 
fresh every morning, especially here and in San Francisco. Those are 
the crops that will be affected. 

Mr. Arnold. Someone up in the Portland area said the American: 
people might not be able to get their spinach. 

Mr. Cunningham. Well, after all, it is surprising right now, the 
way the market for lettuce has dropped off. In Imperial Valley they 
are plowing under some of the lettuce and it isn't due to the labor 
shortage. It is due to the lack of a market. 

Mr. Curtis. The whole agricultural labor question has been a 
difficult one in recent months, has it not? 

Mr. Cunningham. Not so much in recent months because it ha& 
been the off-season, but during last fall and the latter part of 1941, 
it was extremely difficult, complicated perhaps by the fact that 
California has been used to an inexhaustible supply of experienced 
labor. When that dropped off, naturally, it got the spotlight and 
there was some concern, but no crops, to my knowledge, with the 
exception of cotton, suffered from a shortage of agricultural labor. 

Mr. Curtis. Did the competition of defense jobs and higher wages- 
contribute to the difficulty with cotton? 

Mr. Cunningham. To some extent but I don't think entirely. 
The establishment back in the Middle West and Southwest of tre- 
mendous defense industries, and more work becoming available, 
caused an awful lot of cotton pickers to remain where they have come 
from in other years. 

Mr. Arnold. Mr. Cunningham, we appreciate your coming here 
and giving us the benefit of your information. We want to apologize 
for not calling you this morning when you were scheduled, but we- 
were running behind and this is the best we could do. 

Our next witnesses are Mr. Booth and Mr. Henley. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11743 

TESTIMONY OF G. RAYMOND BOOTH AND DAVID E. HENLEY, OF 
THE AMERICAN FRIENDS SERVICE COMMITTEE, PACIFIC 
COAST BRANCH 

Mr Curtis. Will you state your name? 

Mr. Booth. G. Raymond Booth. 

Mr. Curtis. Wliere do you reside? 

Mr. Booth. Pasadena. 

Mr. Curtis. What is your business or occupation? 

Mr. Booth. I am executive secretary of the American Friends 
Service Committee, Pacific coast branch. 

Mr. Curtis. That is a Quaker organization? 

Mr. Booth. That is right. 

Mr. Curtis. What is your full name? 

Mr. Henley. David E. Henley. 

Mr, Curtis. Where do you reside? 

Mr. Henley. Whittier. 

Mr. Curtis. Wliat is your business or occupation? 

Mr. Henley. I teach in Whittier College. 

Mr. Curtis. Wliat is your connection with the American Friends 
Service Committee? 

Mr. Henley. I am on the executive committee and in contact with 
several of the subcommittees. 

Mr. Curtis. When was the American Friends Service Committee 
organized? 

Mr. Booth. It was organized during the last war for the purpose of 
taking young men over to France to rebuild some of the ruined villages 
there during the war. 

Mr. Curtis. While the war was going on or after the war? 

Mr, Booth, Both during and following the war. 

Mr. Curtis. You are a pacifist organization? 

Mr. Booth, If I may define the term; yes. 

Mr. Curtis. You may define it; yes. 

Mr. Booth. I mean by this that we have no part whatever with 
individual political pacifism or isolationism or anything of that sort 
at all. Our objection to war stems out of our fundamental religious 
convictions, and we give expression to it in social activity for the 
forgotten man, or the underdog, or the submerged groups remaining 
in every part of the world. 

Mr. Curtis, Mr, Booth, you have prepared a statement, have 
you not? 

Mr, Booth. Yes, 

Mr, Curtis, That written statement will be received and printed in 
our record in full. 

Mr. Booth. I have already prepared and handed to the staff a 
document of some length. 

Mr. Curtis. Yes. We are glad to have that and we are glad for 
helpful and charitable organizations that assist individuals in these 
trying times. 

We understand that the American Friends Service Committee has 
been in touch with the problems arising in the evacuation of Terminal 
Island. 

Mr. Booth. That is right. 



11744 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

(The statement referred to above is as follows:) 

STATEMENT BY G. RAYMOND BOOTH, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, 
AMERICAN FRIENDS SERVICE COMMITTEE, PACIFIC COAST 

BRANCH, PASADENA, CALIF. 

March 7, 1942. 

The American Friends Service Committee believes that measures designed for 
national security should not be taken against minority groups of American citizens 
on the basis of race, country of parental origin, or any other group basis. 

It believes in the ability and intelligence of the appropriate agencies of military 
and civilian authority to accomplish needed measures of internal security by 
dealing with individuals. It does not wish to criticize a decision to accord to the 
State the benefit of any residue of doubt. 

Dealing with groups as groups, it is believed, introduces far-reaching deleterious 
effects. It invites despair, cynicism, and rebelliousness among the individuals of 
such groups. It tends to provoke the same among individuals of other minority 
groups who may consider themselves next in line for discriminatory action. 

Furthermore, no citizen is less secure potentially than the lowliest among us. 
To tamper with the basis of democratic citizenship is to begin the journey toward 
totalitarianism which may take us afar from American way of life. 

The international and military complications of such action would be most 
advantageous to the Axis enemies, particularly Japan. Her tactical advantage, if 
she could persuade other Asiatics of our racial unfriendliness, would be enormous. 

We suggest, therefore, that it is not too late to institute a system of local boards 
of inquiry into all cases, alien and citizen ahke, to determine the essential loyalties 
of each. Recommendations could be made by such boards designed toward (a) 
internment, (6) removal from vital zones, (c) restricted movements, (d) unre- 
stricted freedom. , , . , ,.^. , , 

National security instead of local prejudice, hysteria, greed, political advantage, 
and unreasoning fear should be the governing motives of such boards. 

In the event the above considerations and recommenations are not acceptable 
and large-scale group evacuation must be carried out, considerations of humanity 
should have a large place in such plans. 

The Evacuation 

1. The cost of evacuation should not be a burden on the evacuees, 

2. The protection of property which must be left behind should be assumed by 
the Government. Methods may differ in dealing with alien and citizen property. 

3. Exemptions or deferments should be created in order to deal with health 
problems. Pregnant women, children needing special diet and medical care, 
diabetics, the aged, must not be overlooked. Provision for care in or near the 
cities should be provided, perhaps under social agencies. 

4. There are perhaps 1,000 college students of undergraduate and graduate 
standing. Denial of further educational advantages to these students is to reduce 
the group to menials. 

The Military Reservations 

Major provisions of the Geneva Convention for Treatment of Prisoners of 
War should be accorded those who must live in such camps. Housing, furnishings, 
and food issues should be equal to that provided for the armed forces. Special 
considerations should be made to provide Japanese type of diet. Medical care, 
with release of those whose detention would lead to impairment of health, should 
be considered, and inspection and suggestions from nongovernmental agencies 
such as the Red Cross should be permitted at frequent intervals. Freedom to 
communicate with the outside, under proper supervision, should be provided. 
Morale-building agencies should be permitted to carry on work of education, 
recreation, and religion. Perhaps labor of national importance would be accept- 
able in this case to most of the reservation residents. 

Resettlement Versus Evacuation 

The evacuation plan should be quickly superseded by a plan of genuine resettle- 
ment; otherwise the end of the war will see an impoverished, demoralized, embit- 
tered 'group of people return to former places of residence, with consequent social 
problems of almost incalculable proportions. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11745 

We suggest a quasi-public resettlement board, composed of men of nationally 
known ability and integrity, to have general supervision of such resettlement. 
Such a board would be able to draw upon the skills of governmental agencies for 
expert advice and administrative services. Federal funds available on the basis 
of long-time amortization supplementing individual savings would facilitate 
productivity, contentment, and security of tenure heretofore rarely known among 
Japanese Americans. 

Sectarian and other partial schemes of resettlement might conceivably have 
their places in the general scheme. Perhaps such partial schemes might be 
modified for the general good. 

American Friends Service Committee 

The American Friends Service Committee has had experience in dealing with 
uprooted humanity in France, Poland, Spain, Russia, China, Mexico, and the 
United States. If governmental authorities should consider such experience 
valuable, they may feel free to call upon us for such service as to them seems wise. 
Any such requests would be considered in the light of their possible service to 
humanity. 

Exhibit A. — Letter From Clarence E. Pickett, Executive Secretary, 
American Friends Service Committee, 20 South Twelfth Street, Phila- 
delphia, Pa. 

February 28, 1942. 
C. Reed Gary, 

American Friends Service Committee, 

644 East Orange Grove Avenue, Pasadena, Calif. 
Dear Reed: Homer Morris and I have gone over some ideas concerning 
resettlement which he is putting into a memorandum, and he is also enclosing a 
copy of the report on Penn-Craft.i My idea about that would be that it could be 
for thee a source material in preparing for thy appearing before the Tolan com- 
mittee. Also, if thee wanted to do it, thee could read it into the record as an 
evidence of an experiment in resettlement which is in process now and which 
gives a good deal of evidence of the way in which the thing can be done. I am 
also enclosing a speech which I made a good many years ago after I had studied 
resettlement efforts in Europe. I don't know that that will be of any value, but I 
thought I would send it along anyway. Thee does not need to bother to return it. 
That, too, might be read into the record. It is based on a study which I made in 
Germany, Czechoslovakia, Austria, Denmark, England, and way stations. 

Thee ought to know that there is an interest in this problem of the Japanese 
on the part of Senator Thomas from Utah. He was for 16 yeaft, I believe, a 
missionary for the Mormons in Japan and speaks Japanese well. He has the 
difficulty of having a good many young men who are dedicated as missionaries on 
their basis of giving 2 or 3 years of their lives, but now with most of the countries 
of the world shut they don't have any place to go. He would like to have them 
used. I don't know whether thee is familiar with the Brigham Young plan of 
settlement, but it is one of the most statesmanlike that has ever been worked out 
in this country and has had its effects upon the whole economic and social life in 
Utah. My honest opinion is that if the Mormons would get interested in this 
problem and could go at it without prejudice, they might be extremely helpful. 
I mention this for thy own information. If there does come along a resettlement 
problem — which I would hope would be handled by Farm Security — I would 
hope both the Mormons and Friends might help out. 

I am not sure whether thee is familiar with the mobile camp program of Farm 
Security. They have mobile camps for agricultural workers which can be built 
for not more than about $200 a unit and which in mild climates work very well 
more or less permanently. Laurence Hewes, whom we talked about on the 
telephone the other night, the regional director in San Francisco for Farm Secur- 
ity, would have all of this information, if he is willing to give it before the Tolan 
committee. It may be, however, that Government agents are not permitted to 
appear before the committee. 

I wish to goodness I could be there a little while. I would like to give them a 
good long story about things that could be done. It seems to me that in terms 
of building good will for the long-distant future this offers one of the most rare 

I Held in committeelfiles. 



11746 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

opportunities that could possibly come. Without doubt the Japanese people 
are extremely keen to know what happens to their nationals who are in this 
country. If they are put in concentration camps, it will contribute to long-time, 
almost age-long bitterness. If they are treated with consideration and given some 
opportunity, it may do more to develop a good spirit in Japan than almost any- 
thing that we could do. I have the belief that we ought to help in any way we 
possibly can, keeping in mind the long-time results that may come either from 
proper treatment or from mistreatment. 

Furthermore, if I were undertaking a resettlement job on the land, I don't 
know that I could imagine a better group to work with than the Japanese. They 
do know how to live on nothing and work hard. They know how to make things 
grow out of soil that for others seems to be impossible. Of course, I do hate to 
Bee them huddled together in a colony anywhere — it doesn't seem to me the best 
way to do it — but I think temporarily perhaps that is what wiU have to be done. 

I hope out of the material we are sending, thee can help the Tolan committee 
in its effort to have a decent record. My impression of their operations is that 
they have done a very good job. They helped enormously by the hearings which 
they held in New Jersey. 
Sincerely thine, 

Clarence E. Pickett. 



Exhibit B. — Statement by Homer Morris, American Friends Service 
Committee, 20 South Twelfth Street, Philadelphia, Pa. 

February 28, 1942. 

problems in dealing with evacuees 

1. Classification of evacuees: 

(a) Most of the evacuees — and I do not at all know the percentages here — 
will probably be able to make their own readjustment without outside help, 

(6) Others will need only advice and counsel in making the readjustment. 

(c) Some will need shelter temporarily while they are seeking contacts for new 
location. 

id) Some will need to be resettled, at least for the duration. 

2. Families need to be kept together if possible. 

3. Single men or men without families could be housed together. 

4. The cost of supporting the evacuees should be kept as low as possible con- 
sistent with decent standards of living. 

5. The leisure time of the evacuees should be utilized in order — 

(a) To keep^up their morale; 

(b) To improve their skills; 

(c) To produce a part of their support. 

6. Many families now uprooted may have difficulty in returning to their former 
homes and jobs at the close of the war. Long-time readjustment should there- 
fore enter into the plans for taking care of this group of permanently uprooted 
evacuees. 

METHODS OF PROCEDURE 

In considering methods of handling the evacuee situation, the problems that 
have been enumerated above need to be given consideration, and the plans that 
are worked out should help to provide a solution for as many of these problems 
as possible. 

The experience of the American Friends Service Committee in rehabilitation 
and self-help projects in Poland, Russia, Austria, and Servia after the close of 
World War I and our experience during the depression in the thirities in this 
country would suggest that one of the best methods of procedure to handle an 
evacuee problem is to place the evacuees on the land where they could produce 
part of their support. I am attaching a brief statement relative to work in 
Poland, Russia, and Penn-Craft. 

In a resettlement program, materials have to be provided for the construction 
of simple houses or, if the settlement is in a place where climate is fairly mild, 
tents might be used. If houses are constructed, this could be done on a very 
simple basis and would not need to be very expensive. There would probably 
be enough skilled workmen among the evacuees so that they could construct their 
own houses. If not, leadership would need to be provided so that with the use of 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11747 

even unskilled labor among the evacuees the houses could be constructed without 
labor charge. 

Families. — The family life of the evacuee should be safeguarded if possible. 
By swapping labor among themselves, the families would be able to construct their 
own houses. Whether the houses should be located close together in village type 
or located on individual plots of land would depend primarily upon the availability 
of water supply. The amount of land needed for each family would depend upon 
the fertility of the soil and whether the group would be expected to produce any 
more than their own subsistence. If the land is fairly productive, an acre per 
family is sufficient for subsistence with the use of intensive cultivation. 

Single men. — Single men or men separated from their families could be housed in 
barracks. The men could construct their own barracks with at most the help of 
some construction direction. It might be that the single men might be housed in 
some of the abandoned Civilian Conservation Corps camps, provided these camps 
are located in areas where suitable land for the production of food supplies is 
available. 

The amount of land needed would depend upon the fertility of the soil, but 
would probably not have to be in excess of a quarter of an acre per man. 

To carry out this agricultural program, it would be necessary to provide simple 
tools which would not have to be too expensive, because one of the problems 
would be to utilize the labor of the evacuees. There would also need to be seed, 
fertilizer, and, especially in the West, one of the essentials would be irrigation 
facilities. Some instruction and supervision might be needed in construction, 
gardening, and preservation of food and in the use of leisure time in making 
clothes and providing other necessities. This could be done without a large 
personnel to help. 

GENERAL CONSIDERATIONS IN CARRYING OUT A RESETTLEMENT PROGRAM 

The success of a resettlement program depends primarily upon securing able 
and sympathetic administrators. The personnel in a resettlement program for 
evacuees would need to have a passion for using the skills and abilities of the 
evacuees and developing leadership among them at every point in the development 
of the program. 

I doubt whether there is any group in the world who are better material for 
a resettlement program on the land than the Japanese in California. They have 
demonstrated their ability as farmers and gardeners. In fact, they have been so 
successful along this line that this has become one of their major crimes in the 
eyes of native California farmers. They have demonstrated a high degree of 
independence and self-reliance. It w^ould be a crime of the first order if our 
treatment of them as evacuees should tend to break this spirit of independence 
and self-reliance. Their high morale should be respected and preserved. 

The difficulties and the problems of the Orient are not going to be solved with 
the termination of the present war. The intense bitterness of national and racial 
antagonisms which is being aroused is going to continue after the close of the war 
and will tend to thwart and defeat any peace settlement which is made. If there 
is to be a lasting peace in the Orient,"^ it will have to rest upon a mutual respect 
between the yellow and the white races. The way in which we treat the Japanese 
4vacu^es may be one of the most important contributions which can be made to 
relieve the tension between the races and at least to form contracts between the 
races in California which will help to counteract some of the bitterness which has 
developed on the coast during the years and has now flamed into overt violence. 

One way to handle this problem is to herd the 6vacu6es into concentration 
camps. Immediately that wouid be the easiest and the simplest way to deal with 
the problem. But it would only intensify the feeling and make more difficult the 
final solution. If these 6vacu6es could be handled with respect and dignity by 
sympathetic and religiously motivated people, it might make a contribution to a 
solution of the problem of the Pacific which would be out of all proportion to the 
size of the undertaking and would be ample compensation for all the difficulties 
that are inherent in any resettlement undertaking. 

The Government can and should provide the funds for the handling of the 
^vacu^es, but it is evident from past experience and the limitations that are 
inherent in Government procedure that if this job is done effectively it will need 
to be done by some private agency which is rightly motivated and has freedom 
to select the "right personnel. The right handling of the Japanese on the coast 
as 6vacu6es represents one of the greatest opportunities for constructive peace 
work that could be placed in the lap of any group. 



11748 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FEANCISCO HEARINGS 

We are being surfeited with political propaganda. This is a rare opportunity 
for a proper treatment of aliens of enemy countries which would be the basis of 
the best type of propaganda for those who are interested in establishing a better 
world order. 

One of the most difficult problems in a. resettlement program for evacuees will 
be to secure the right type of land. This problem will be complicated by local 
hostilities. To secure land will probably require Government backing or" might 
even require definite action of the Government. That is, if a private agency lo- 
cated suitable land, it might require Government action in order to secure the land 
or to prevail upon local authorities to grant the use of the land. The question of 
location is further complicated by the uncertain length of time of the project. 
That is, it would probably be advisable to lease land, if possible, rather than to 
purchase it until the permanence of the resettlement program is determined. If 
land which is already owned by the Government could be utilized, this might 
simplify the problem. I do not know the actual situation in connection with the 
selection of families and development of the Coulee irrigation project. It was 
planned originally, I believe, that this territory might be settled by migrant labor. 
I suspect that the present defense program has absorbed a large percentage of the 
migratory labor, and there is a question whether they now have such families to 
settle that land. If all the families have not been selected, some of this land might 
be used temporarily for the location of the evacuees. It is property under Govern- 
ment control, is in a relatively undeveloped area where the problem of public 
relations might be simpler, and water is available. This is one area that might be 
investigated as a possible location. Utah might be another area in which the 
evacuees might be settled with less public complications than in most other areas. 

Because of the local opposition to Japanese, it might be better to scatter them 
in relatively small groups in a good many different areas rather than to concentrate 
them in large groups where they might become the focus of a rather violent 
public opinion. 

At this distance and without the necessary facts, I will make no attempt to 
estimate the cost of a rehabilitation program. It should, however, be carried 
out on a very simple basis. Whatever it costs could be deducted from complete 
support which will have to be provided by the Government in case evacuees are 
herded into concentration camps. The food which they ought ultimately to 
produce should reduce considerably the cost of handling the evacuee problem, so 
that the increase in cost in resettlement over concentration camp would partly be 
offset by saving in food. 

EXPERIEXCE OF THE AMERICAN FRIENDS SERVICE COMMITTEE IN POLAND 

English and American Friends, following World War No. 1 conducted a rather 
extensive resettlement program in Poland. This was for the Poles who were 
driven out of Poland into Russia in the autumn of 1914. The land was fought 
over for 3 or 4 years and when the refugees returned from Russia, the land had 
been so churned up by fighting and grown up in trees and shrubbery that in many 
cases thev could not identify the villages in which they had lived. 

The Friends set about to help these refugees to start life over again. They im- 
ported horses, seed, fertilizer, machinery. They taught them more scientific 
methods of agriculture, and within a few years amazing progress had been made 
in the restoration of the land and in the development of a rather prosperous 
agricultural area. The Kolpin Agricultural School, which was an outgrowth of 
this effort, was later taken over by the Department of Agriculture in Poland and 
has become the center of one of the most progressive agricultural schools in Poland. 
It is from this area that just previous to the war came the Polish canned pork, 
the best that could be bought on the American market. 

This rehabilitation program which had such a profound influence upon the agri- 
cultural and economic development of a devastated area of Poland was the work 
of a relatively few far-sighted and energetic English and American workers who 
were interested in making a demonstration in international good will. 

EXPERIENCE OF THE AMERICAN FRIENDS SERVICE COMMITTEE IN RUSSIA 

The refugees from Poland were sent in the opening days of World War No. I to 
the Volga Valley, which was the grain-growing section of Russia. At the end of 
the war and after the civil war and famine in the Volga area, these Polish 
refugees fled from the famine area back to Poland. The once prosperous Volga 
Valley was then laid waste. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE ]VnGRATION 11749 

In the spring of 1922 the American Friends Service Committee and EngUsh 
friends imported tractors, machinery, horses, and seed in order to get the peasants 
back on the land and to enable them to start their hfe again on a more normal 
basis. This was not especially a resettlement problem, but it was an illustration 
of the way in which a comparatively small amount of aid at a critical time can 
have a very profound effect upon the economic development of a country and in 
the long run may have some bearing upon the political and cultural relations 
between countries. 

PENN-CRAFT 

I am enclosing herewith a progress report on the development of Penn-Craft 
community. I am not sure that this will be useful, but it may serve as an evi- 
dence that the service committee is now engaged in a resettlement project and 
that we do know something of the problems, difficulties, and possibilities whi»>K 
are connected with any resettlement proerarn 

The Penn-Craft project is, of course, of a much more ambitious scale than should 
be undertaken for evacuees, but it is at least an illustration of a resettlement 
project which has already made rather striking contribution to the community. 
It may or may not be pertinent. 



Exhibit C. — Subsistexce Homesteadixg in Europe 

report bt clarence e. pickett, executive secretary, american friends 
service committee, philadelphia, pa. 

Social conditions in Europe usually come to their critical stages from 15 to 50 
years earUer than thej' do in America. This has been true in the development 
of small land settlements. It was not until May 1933, that the United States 
Congress appropriated 825,000,000 for the development of subsistence home- 
steads. Just now the administration of that act is getting well under way. The 
first community to be established in West ^"irginia was opened to 50 homesteaders 
in June 1931. Within a few days a new community will be established near 
Houston, Tex., and already 100 families have moved into the Cumberland Home- 
steads at Crossville, Tenn. 

It was in 1920, when soldiers returning from the war to Vienna hoping to marry 
and establish homes but finding impossible congestion in the city, that the Quaker 
Relief Organization loaned to a cooperative organization in Vienna $50,000 for 
the establishment of subsistence homesteads. 

Three and four-room houses were erected on plots of land three-eights of an 
acre in size. On these plots, for 15 years, families have grown most of their 
vegetables and fruit supply; they have been dependent, however, for cash income 
on industrial employment. After about 5 years the city government of Vienna 
adopted the scheme and has developed it since that time. Gradually the. size 
of the plot of ground has been decreased and the famous Socialist apartment 
bouses represent the complete elimination of the food production element from 
the homestead idea. 

During the past 2 years a large homestead development has been in construc- 
tion which places one house on an acre of land. This one definitely attempts to 
make the family self-sufficing as far as possible off the land. The problem of the 
high cost of land and its scarcity has been so acute that the movement has been 
seriously hampered. It has, however, revealed a good deal b}' way of methods 
of intensive cultivation and inexpensive fertilization of soil. It has also quite 
clearh' demonstrated that the devotion of the Viennese worker to his home is 
much greater where the home life is rooted in the soil than where it is simply in 
an apartment. 

In Czechoslovakia after the war the newly established government took up 
with great vigor the problem of the redistribution of land. Large estates were 
broken up and peasants permitted to purchase on easj" payment plans. 

It would be hardly fair to say that this is a subsisetnce homestead movement, 
but it is interesting to note how little political disturbance there has been in 
Cechoslovakia, even though its population is made up of various racial, national, 
and religious groups. One wonders whether there may not be a connection 
between the sense of security and relation to the soil on the one hand, and the 
lack of political disturbance on the other. 

In Germany there are two main approaches to the attempt at land settlement. 
One has to do with the use of the large land estates. Thus far not a great deal 



11750 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

has been done to make available this land for general use. However, some of 
the estates which were long in arrears in taxes have been permitted to pay those 
taxes by deeding portions of their estate to the government. Land thus trans- 
ferred has been divided into small farms and made available for general farming 
purposes. This is a part of the present Government's plan to make Germany as 
nearly self-sufficient economically as possible; drainage and reclamation efforts of 
considerable proportions have gone on in recent years. The movement, however, 
is not large enough to play an important part yet in the national life of Germany. 

Much more significant is the development of the Kliensiedlung, or small-settle- 
ment movement which locates houses on small tracts of land, usually not exceeding 
one-half acre, located adjacent to existing industries. Arrangements are usually 
made for short hours in industry to allow time for production of food supply from 
the soil. Good fireproof housing with three or four rooms for the family is gen- 
erally provided. Here also intensive cultivation of fruits and vegetables, together 
with scientific fertilization, has developed remarkable results in terms of supplying 
food, and has also helped to retain the integrity and solidarity of family life. 
In some cases industry and Government have cooperated in supplying funds. 
The homesteads are usually sold to the individual homesteaders and the period 
of amortization is 42 years. The community is forced into a homesteader's 
cooperative which is carried on under the direction of an able paid director. 
School and church facilities are frequently provided as a part of the general 
community set-up and not specifically for the homestead community. One is 
impressed with the fact that the housing is all very much alike. The monotony, 
however, is greatly relieved by the skill and artistic taste in landscaping and 
planting. A number of Kliensiedlung have been established where there is no 
industry, but these in most cases have not been successful because there was no 
source of cash income. Some efforts have been made, but without great success, 
to develop production-for-use units for these communities. 

About 66,000 individual homesteads have been established by the Government 
thus far. Germany, however, is a highly industrialized nation with millions of its 
population living adjacent to large cities and around heavy industries. It does 
not have the open spaces which are our fortune, and the movement is thus far 
not large enough to affect to any considerable degree the social structure and 
political life of the country. 

In Wurtemburg, however, the combination between farming and industrial 
work has been maintained for nearly 100 years. In 1840 the King of Wurtem- 
burg sent his Prime Minister to England to study the social and economic effects 
of the centralization of working populations around the newly established indus- 
tries. The Prime Minister reported to his King that although this plan would 
be satisfactory when industrial plants were operating at full capacity it was 
dangerous because times of unemployment were sure to come. Following the 
recommendations of his Prime Minister, the King worked out a plan of subsidy 
and encouragement for industries which were willing to employ labor part-time 
and to leave time free for small-scale farming. They were also required to trans- 
port workers to and from their farms, small or large, to the industry and to keep 
the normal balance between agriculture and industry. 

While Wurtemburg has many small plants, it also has some heavy industry. 
The Bosch Works, for instance, employ 12,000 people. They bring some of their 
workers as far as 30 miles to work; some of the most highly skilled workmen in 
Germanv come from the Wurtemburg farms and although the land is not by any 
means the best in Germany, it has been carefully used until it now is considered 
one of the most productive parts of the country. 

The State of Wurtemburg has its own scheme of unemployment insurance. 
It has carried its own relief load throughout the last 10 years and last year from 
funds in its unemployment insurance treasury, which were not required to meet 
the needs of its unemployed, it loaned to the federal government 80,000,000 marks. 

Comparatively little has been done in land-settlement projects in England. 
Large-scale allotments for garden production have been carried on for a number 
of years, but Britishers are not land-minded. Furthermore, the amount of 
available land for successful cultivation is severely limited. One experiment, 
however, is being carried out in Devonshire by private individuals which carries 
much significance. They have purchased an old baronial estate of several 
thousand acres and, instead of breaking it up, as has been the policy of the British 
Government, thev have approached the estate from the point of view of its social 
value. The community fife and economic development on a local self-sustaining 
basis had great value on the medieval estates, if only these values could be divorced 
from the paternalistic life that the estate applied. The forests have been brought 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11751 

under control; experiments with new plants are being carried out; also laboratory 
tests of ways, in which the hand and the machine may be associated together in 
the production of woolens and pottery, are bringing to light new products which 
had not heretofore been made. This effort, through experiments and education, 
to recover an appreciation of the intelligent use of the land, together with the 
fabricating of forest, clay, and textile products, within the same community are 
revealing ways in which the values of the feudal or semifeudal life in the Middle 
Ages may be recovered and made to fit in with our modern machine age. 

One of the striking phases of European life now is that civil disturbance is much 
more to the fore than international strife. It is my conviction that one of the 
chief reasons for this civil strife, especially in Austria and Germany, is due to the 
fact that there are large numbers of people in both of these countries who have 
been compelled year by year to reduce their standard of living. Many of them 
have been unemployed for years. Large numbers of young people have never 
had a remunerative job. 

We have developed both in Europe and in America the employer-employee 
relationship, so that it is assumed that the only way in which people can make a 
living is by being employed by someone else. This in itself is an anomaly. 
There are thousands of jobs which need to be done and as many ways in which 
people might wrest from the land and from their surroundings the things needed 
for an abundant life. The practice of commanding the soil to bring forth its 
fruits has largely been lost. Both in Europe and in America we need to recover 
the independence and security that can alone be provided, not by any kind of 
political machinery, but by production from the soil. 

We have some years left in this country before acute internal strife is likely to 
develop. It seems to me inevitable that this stage will come unless we relocate 
large numbers of our people who are now living in industrial communities, but 
who are unemployed, or who are living on land which does not produce enough 
to provide the necessities of life. 

If, in the next 20 years, some 10,000,000 people now living where there is little 
or no opportunity to make a living can be transplanted to small allotments of 
land, and if those industries which can operate economically on a decentralized 
basis will be willing to follow their workers to subsistence homestead communities, 
we may be able to develop a strong and intelligent citizenry whose attention is 
centered not primarily on fruitless political conflict, but on the use of God's gift 
to us for the satisfying of human needs. 

In the development of these new communities, whether abroad or in America, 
the place of the church has a great significance. Most of the communities that 
will be established will not be primarily religious colonies, but the ministry of the 
spirit which can be provided by the church will be an invaluable asset. 

In the development of a social and spiritual life, it is gratifying to see those of 
you who are associated with the great and influential Roman Church in America 
giving your time and energy, as is being done in many cases, to the intelligent 
planning of a new and wholesome community life. 

TESTIMONY OF G. RAYMOND BOOTH AND DAVID E. HENLEY— 

Resumed 

Mr. Curtis. Would you please give the committee your analysis 
of this experience? 

Mr. Booth. I think in the main there has been practically no 
provision made on the basis of experience for dealing with the person 
who gets lost in the shuffle. 

The Social Security agency did a magnificent job and the Interna- 
tional Institute here, under Miss Newton, did a very exceflent job, 
but all of the contingencies that might arise were not prepared for, 
could not have been prepared for, in the course of 48 hours. The terms 
of reference of the job assigned to Mr. Neustadt were not conclusive 
enough to make it possible to provide for those things. 

For instance, you received evidence here this morning that only 
some 15 or 16 Japanese apphed for social security assistance. Well 
at least, there were a good many more who would have applied, who 



11752 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

could have been provided for, had the terms of reference been broad 
enough. But there were people who were being victimized econom- 
ically by the removal, and through Japanese funds, to a large extent, 
supplied to the International Institute, who did the social case work, 
some 50 or 60 cases were cared for. 

Then there were health problems that were not anticipated and 
were not met which had to be provided for in a volunteer capacity. 

Mr. Curtis. Your committee was present and assisting in this 
work? 

SHELTERED 200 PERSONS 

Mr. Booth. That is right. As a matter of fact, we have three 
hostelries where we are caring for upward of 200, giving shelter and 
doing some bit of counseling and that sort of thing. 

Mr. Curtis. In what kind of buildings do you have them? 

Mr. Booth. We have two language schools out in the country, and 
then we have a very fine old Presbyterian school here in the city, 
which they very generously gave us, down in the Boyle Heights area. 

Mr. Curtis. Mr. Henley, do you have any observations or sugges- 
tions to add to this Terminal Island situation, that you feel the 
Government should know? 

Mr. Henley. I think I have nothing specially to add. Naturally, 
we had suddenness, and resulting confusion and anxiety but nothing 
further, I think, other than what has been mentioned already. 

Mr. Curtis. Both of you feel that the hardships are lessened if 
we can give accurate information as early as possible; isn't that true? 

Mr. Booth. I think that can be done. 

HEALTH problems 

There is one thmg we will have to foresee and that is the health 
problems, all the way from a tiny tot who needs a special diet, and 
young women who are pregnant, to the aged men. We are going to 
find a rather sizeable number of people who, for health reasons, are 
going to be under the general ban. Certainly, there ought to be 
consideration given where agencies might care for those people, at 
least on a temporary basis, that is, in an area adjacent to the cities 
where they have the facilities, which city health services offer. 

Then, of course, there is another problem which has to do with the 
impoverishment of a group, as a group. That is the problem con- 
fronting a thousand university students, both undergraduates and 
graduates. If their education is denied them, at the same time the 
group is being pushed out, it will lead to the cultural and economic 
impoverishment of the whole group. 

There is a large section that ought to be given special consideration 
in this whole thing. 

ADVANTAGE TAKEN OF EVACUEES 

Mr. Curtis. In that connection, have you found any instances 
where people have taken advantage of the situation by purchasing 
the belongings of evacuees? 

Mr. Booth. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Curtis. At a fraction of their original cost? 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11753 

Mr. Booth. It has been done. It is just common loiowledge. 

Mr. Curtis. Could you be specific and give us an instance or two? 

Mr. Booth. I can't substantiate it. I will tell you why: We had 
a survey made in one of these earlier proscribed zones on individual 
sheets and the evidence was obtained as to what the owner thought 
the value was and what the price paid was. In going back, when 
your committee came along, to get these things checked, we found 
that the people had moved on, or they were just too frightened, 
absolutely terrified, at the thought of doing this sort of thing, because 
of the fear of victimization later. 

However, I do have some instances I can relate. For instance, 
six families reported selling equipment very cheaply but gave no 
names. Clyde Sprague, 920 East Rosecranz, Compton, is reported 
as buying at half value, or very cheap, 4 tons of hay and a horse for $35. 

Mr. Curtis. Now, Mr. Booth, when I asked you to be specific, 
I meant illustrations as to values. Whether you give the names is 
rather immaterial. We are not a law-enforcing agency but we do 
want to have a general picture of what is going on. 

Mr. Booth. Mr. B bought a horse, valued at $200, for $70. 

Mr. Bender. Frankly, we would like to have the names. There 
is no point in offering testimony unless you can give the names. 

Mr. Booth. I offered it. I will offer the name again. 

Mr. Bender. What is the name? 

Mr. Booth. This man is A. G. Quinn of 519 College Avenue, 
Costa Mesa. 

Mr. Bender. Will you spell the name? 

Mr. Booth. Q-u-i-n-n. 

method of approach 

In most cases which came to our attention, the individual received a 
telephone call, purportedly from an agency of law enforcement, the 
F. B. I., the Navy Intelligence, Army Intelhgence, or the pohce, in 
which they were giving them a friendly tip, that 'Tou are going to 
have to move sooner than you thought. We are giving you a break. 
You had better start packing." 

Mr. Bender. Who did that? 

Mr. Booth. Purportedly the F. B. I. and the other agencies of law 
enforcement, which do not make such calls, obviously. 

Mr. Bender. You say "purportedly, the F. B. I." 

Mr. Booth. What I mean is this: That the man, who is going to 
have to move, gets a telephone call, "This is the F. B. I. calling. 
You are going to have to move sooner than you thought." 

Mr. Bender. You don't beheve that it is actually the F. B. I.? 

Mr. Booth. It is stupid on the face of it; certainly not. 

First of all, I called the F. B. I. and had them check up on it. I 
knew, of course, that it wasn't true. 

Well, some tune in the same day, this person would be visited by 
someone who was very generously offering to buy. It is that sort of 
thing that is going on and on until, well, you can realize the state of 
dismay and despair, and even terror resulting from- that. 

Junk dealers moved down on Terminal Island in advance. They 
came down there in great numbers on one particular occasion. 



11754 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Here is another case. Frank B. Johnson of 1301 Wilmington 
Avenue, Compton, bought one horse, four tons of hay, three-quarter 
tons of fertilizer, harrow, cultivator, and plow all for the sum of ^100. 

Mr. Curtis. What kind of a horse was it? 

Mr. Booth. That I don't know. I didn't see the horse. I would 
surmise that the horse was a very decent sort of a horse. The Japanese 
deal in pretty good stock. They are rather shrewd people on that 
score. 

Mr. Curtis. Mr. Henley, do you feel that the situation in regard to 
some instances where the evacuees were taken advantage of is what 
Mr. Booth described? 

Mr. Henley. Certainly; substantially as he has presented it, yes. 

I haven't actually been in the field. I have been working more 
with the policy-making forces in the country, but our secretaries, 
who know the Japanese intimately, and in whom the Japanese have 
confidence, have reported to them repeated cases of exactly this kind. 

Mr. Curtis. Do you think it is carried on by a minority or a smaU 
group of individuals, this preying upon their misfortune? 

Mr. Henley. I should suppose it is a group of individuals who are 
looking out for an opportunity to make some money. 

Mr. Bender. Have you ever known of these individuals before this 
war started? 

Mr. Henley. Carrying on this kind of economic practice? 

Mr. Bender. Yes. 

Mr. Henley. I think it is just a new use of an old technique. 

Mr. Bender. You Californians haven't been victimized very 
much be any of these rackets, have you? 

Mr. Henley. We are not all in one union. We use each other out 
here to some extent. 

I ought to say, however, I am speaking not as a representative of 
California in any sense as I am an imported teacher of economics. 

Mr. Arnold. At that point, isn't it possible that American citizens 
will be forced to sell their businesses, or their property, at much 
reduced prices? 

I have had two caUs from former Illinois citizens: One owns a half 
interest in a cleaning establishment. He is selling that out because, 
apparently, he thinks he should sell. Another, this morning, told me 
he had a small business. He has sold it out because he didn't think 
conditions were going to be so good in tnis area. 

So, apparently, they have either found someone who has more con- 
fidence than they have, or else they have taken a loss and gotten out 
while the getting was good. That will probably be the practice in 
this area, especially if a few bombs fall, 

Mr. Booth. I would like to point out that there is this difference: 
You had before you this morning half a dozen yoimg Japanese Amer- 
ican citizens, brilliant, able, young business and professional men. 
They are not typical of the Japanese community. 

JAPANESE EASY PREY TO TRICKERY 

The Japanese community as a whole is a rather retiring, simple, 
naive, hard-working group of people, most of whom have not had 
educational opportunities. A great many of the older people are not 
proficient in English. They recognize themselves as strangers in a 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11755 

strange land in the sense that their facial characteristics and their 
language is different and they are denied citizensliip. 

They don't have the same, shall we call it, sales resistance that the 
rest of us have; and add to that a war situation, involving their former 
country, add to that a mysterious call from an officer of the law, and 
then a friendly fellow coming along to buy and you have a different 
situation entirely. 

Mr. Curtis. I think what you have said here has made a contribu- 
tion in this regard: The general fear and confusion of all of us of the 
war situation is gomg to do enough damage and hurt everyone's prop- 
erty, regardless of who they are, but premeditated and intentional 
trickery to further hurt individuals should not be tolerated. 

Mr. Booth. That is right. 

Mr. Curtis. I really beheve that your exposure of that here in a 
public meeting, which is a matter of public record, may have some 
wholesome effect upon it. 

While we realize that there will be a lot of losses on the part of 
many people, the Government has no desire to protect or encourage 
anyone to resort to such dishonest tactics. 

Did you have something you wanted to add? 

Mr. Henley. Not on that. 

I wanted to suggest, that so far as we are concerned, that is a minor 
part of our concern in coming here today. What we are really after 
is to see that those things, which we call the American way, be carried 
out in these emergencies. WTiat we do hope to suggest, through our 
memorandum and through this report here, is om' main concern, that 
there be a constructive creative way devised for handling this very 
difficult situation, not for one group, but for all those concerned. 

Mr. Curtis. I want you to elaborate on this question. What are 
your proposals for resettlement of this or any other group that may 
have to be moved from a given territory? 

WOULD HANDLE EVACUATION ON INDIVIDUAL BASIS 

Mr. Booth. May I say first of all, in preface to that, that our 
fundamental conviction is that dealing with groups, as groups, is 
philosophically unsound; that you can't determine the loyalty of a 
group, as a group. You can only determine it on an individual basis. 

We feel that the experience of Great Britain is very helpful and 
later the experience of Canada, which came on 2 years in advance of 
our own difficulties is helpful ; and that fundamentally out of that we 
are suggesting that it isn't too late for a system of local board heariugs, 
very much the same as selective service, in which local civilian com- 
munities, headed by a military officer, if you please, in each case 
might hear these cases on an individual basis, yet without the dis- 
turbance consequent to moving; and do one of four things: Intern; 
be removed from vital zones; provide restricted movements withia 
a small radius outside of those vital zones; or give unrestricted freedom. 

Faifing to do that, however, and if the evacuation becomes the order 
of the day, the cost of evacuation should be borne by the Government; 
the protection of property left behind must be the full responsibility 
of the Government. Perhaps there are two different problems, the 
property belonging to the alien, which might be dealt with one way, 



11756 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

and the property of the civilian which might be dealt with in another 
way. 

Exemptions or deferments from this general evacuation should be 
created in order to deal with health problems — pregnant women, 
children needing special diet, medical care, diabetics, the aged, ought 
not be overlooked. These should be provided for in or near cities. 

Then there are perhaps the thousand college students who ought to 
be given an opportunity to move to colleges further east, if that can be 
provided, or enough of the college move along with them to give them 
an opportunity to carry on. 

WOULD FOLLOW GENERAL PROVISIONS OF GENEVA CONVENTION 

As to evacuation on military reservations, it is our suggestion that 
the general provisions of the Geneva Convention, as m the treatment 
of prisoners of war, ought to be in force. True, we are not bound to it 
in any way, but they are very fine agreements. They have been used 
in other countries in this present war in cases where they didn't have 
to be used. Housing and food and so on should be the equivalent 
to that of the armed forces. Special consideration should be given 
to the Japanese diet. Freedom to communicate with the outside 
world under proper supervision should be carried on; morale-building 
agencies, such as the Y. M. C. A., which go into prisoner war camps, 
should be permitted. 

One other provision of the Geneva Convention is that the work shall 
not be deleterious to health, or that it should not be conducive to 
helping the enemy win his war. 

The principal thing is this: That evacuation to a military reservation 
for the duration of the war, and tnen a removal again, is going to go 
much further than will happen to any of the rest of us in destroying 
what you might call the good things of life, and may lead to an im- 
poverished, demoralized, and embittered group of people returning 
either to their former habitat or to some place where they might try 
to start aU over again. 

PERMANENT RESETTLEMENT PROGRAM 

In place of that sort of thing, we suggest that the evacuation ought 
to be converted into resettlement. There has always been this 
prejudice in California. You may have noticed the pith of the 
Gov(Miior's statement was "because of prejudice they must go." 

There are zoning laws and there are laws against aliens of Asiatic 
origin owning property and making it very difficult even for the minor 
children, who are citizens, to own property. I would suggest that we 
do this thing on a cheaper basis, by converting it into resettlement 
" where those ordinary restrictions and discriminations, inherent in 
local and State politics, would not have the same opportunity they 
have had in the past. 

For this purpose a quasi-pubhc board, composed of some of the 
most eminent men of America who could be brought onto it on a 
patriotic and humanitarian ground, should be formed. They could 
enter into a large-scale resettlement scheme with the farming hinter- 
land group as the basis for it, as it must be in any genuine resettle- 
ment. That gives rise to urban life and such a community makes 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11757 

it possible for the Japanese citizens to develop the kind of life, which 
for the most part they haven't now. They could have their own 
teachers, and so on. 

1 presume this isn't the best social policy but it is the best, it seems 
to me, under the circumstances, if the choice is between evacuation 
up going out in their old jalopies and sticking their necks out where 
it looks the least dangerous — and genuine resettlement. 

I think Federal funds should be provided and that the terms of 
the agreements could be amortized without cost to the Government. 
That quasi-public board will get an amazing amount of public support 
and public financial support. I mean voluntary financial support. 

A THREE-WAY INTEREST IN PROJECT 

Then it makes possible the most equitable and best possible use of 
the savings of the Japanese themselves who have to go. So that you 
have got a three-way interest in the thing: The Government, the 
general public, and the evacuees, making possible, therefore, the 
building of genuine community life. 

There are a great many small partial and sectarian ideas about 
"Let's start a little community here for my particular faith." I think 
possibly those ideas could have a place in the total scheme of things 
because they do have community-building values. 

I just want to say this in closing: We have had a great deal of ex- 
perience, on a small scale, in various countries of the world, including 
our own, in dealing with impoverished humanity and if we can be of 
any service at any time we will be very happy. 

Mr. Arnold. Mr. Henley, do you have anything you wish to add? 

Mr. Henley. I have been studying the Department of Agricul- 
ture and its various agencies as it has operated in recent years. 
It seems to me we might find it easy to borrow details from their 
different patterns whereby we might very quickly develop a pattern 
for resettlement, allowing these folks to do some pioneer resettling, 
readjusting, starting over with our presently established patterns of 
help, lending assistance in getting a new start in life. 

Certainly, that would be a smart thing, it seems to me, in offsetting 
this tendency on the part of our enemy countries, to use this as 
ammunition against us, starting a race war and so forth. 

Mr. Curtis. I think you have made a very fine contribution to our 
hearing and that you have made some constructive suggestions. I 
am grateful for your statements. 

Mr. Booth. We thank you for the privilege of coming. 

Mr. Bender. Mr. Booth, you referred to some of these people 
being pushed around. It isn't your impression that the tJnited 
States Government has been pushing them around, is it? 

Mr. Booth. No; we have been very happy about the agencies of the 
United States Government during the recent months, exceedingly 
happy. 

Mr. Bender. You have read General DeWitt's warnings? 

Mr. Booth. Exactly. 

Mr. Bender. To the alien Japanese as well as to the American- 
born citizens of Japanese origin not to do anything hasty? 

Mr. Booth. That is right. 

60396 — i2 — pt. 31 10 



11758 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Bender. And not to take any action immediately. Is it 
possible for your agency to further develop that thought among the 
Japanese so that nothing will be done that will cause them to lose 
their property? 

Mr. Booth. Well, we have been doing that all along the Pacific 
coast. I personally have been all up and down the line since this 
thing became acute. We have staff members in all these places, 
and with special recruits, who come in and help, college professors and 
others who are taking temporary leaves of absence to assist us. 

We have been constantly stating to the Japanese citizens and aliens 
alike "You can trust the Federal Government. Sit tight. Don't 
sell your things for a song. Do what they tell you to do. Cooperate 
to the fullest, but don't get hysterical." 

Mr. Bender. You understand, of course, that it is the policy of 
the United States Government to see to it that there is no pushing 
around either at home or abroad? 

Mr. Booth. That is right. 

Mr. Bender. And it is the purpose of this committee to make its 
contribution, through its recommendations, so that there will be no 
pushing around? 

Mr. Booth. Yes. If you could get the cooperation of the southern 
California press it would be extremely helpful, 

Mr. Bender. Regarding this business of pushing around, you recog- 
nize the fact, of course, that there has been a little pushing around on 
the part of some individuals? 

Mr. Booth. That is right. 

Mr. Bender. As individuals? 

Mr. Booth. That is right. And I think some local authority, not 
much, but some. 

THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE 

Mr. Bender. Mr. Henley has referred to the American way of life. 
The American way of life, as we understand it, is what? That is, 
what is your impression of it? 

Mr. Henley. I generally take a semester to explain that, then I 
wonder what I have been talking about. 

Mr. Curtis. Then does it change at the end of the semester? 

Mr. Henley. I think it is that way of life where the majority rules 
but the minorities have their representation and their rights respected; 
where we operate all the agencies of the society for the good of the 
members of the society instead of using them as tools to the end for 
some abstract thing called the state. 

Mr. Bender. Is your impression of the American way of life pretty 
much depicted in the picture of our Pilgrim Fathers on the way to 
church with the Bible under one arm and the shotgun on the other? 

Mr. Henley. My folks came to Philadelphia, they didn't carry- 
shotguns. They brought the Indians right into their homes and into 
their little churches or meeting houses, and made Christians out of 
them. They never had any trouble with them. 

Mr. Bender. They did it without a shotgun? 

Mr. Henley. Yes. 

Mr. Bender. How about meeting the fellow who has a shotgun 
on the other side? 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11759 

Mr. Henley. We have never had any particular trouble along 
that line. I am afraid I can't state out of experience. That isn't 
our field. Our field is to endeavor to find a creative way of getting 
through that conflict. We do get caught in jams. 

I am not trying to compare the Quaker's little performance in his 
little farm community in early days to the situation of nations today. 

Mr. Bender. I share the view of the rest of the committee that 
you have been very helpful. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much, gentlemen. We appreciate 
your commg here. 

Now we will hear from the Mazzini Society, Mr. Attilio Boffa. 

TESTIMONY OF ATTILIO BOFFA, OF THE MAZZINI SOCIETY, 
24101/2 McCREADY AVE., LOS ANGELES, CALIF. 

Mr. Arnold. Give to the reporter your name, address, and 
occupation. 

Mr. BoFFA. My name is Attilio Boffa. I live in Los Angeles. I 
am a wine chemist. I am an American citizen. I have been natural- 
ized since 1940. 

Mr. Curtis. Where were you born? 

Mr. BoFFA. In Italy. 

Mr. Curtis. When did you come to this country? 

Mr. Boffa. 1934. 

Mr. Curtis. Wliere were you educated? 

Mr. Boffa. I was educated in Italy. 

Mr. Curtis. That is where you studied chemistry? 

Mr. Boffa. Yes. 

Mr. Curtis. How old are you? 

Mr. Boffa. I am 45 years old. 

Mr. Curtis. What place did you say you lived? 

Mr. Boffa. In Los Angeles, 2410K McCready Avenue. 

Mr. Curtis. Your capacity as a wine chemist is for whom? 

Mr. Boffa. For Pacific Wines, Inc., in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Curtis. Are you their head chemist? 

Mr. Boffa. I am the head chemist. 

Mr. Curtis. How long have you worked for them? 

Mr. Boffa. From 1934 to the present. 

Mr. Curtis. You had the job when you arrived from Italy? 

Mr. Boffa. No. I came here from Canada. I was in Canada 
before coming to the United States. 

Mr. Curtis. You had that job and went directly to it? 

Mr. Boffa. I came here and applied for the job and I got it. I am 
still on the same job. 

Mr. Curtis. You completed your naturahzation in 1940? 

Mr. Boffa. Yes; in 1940. 

Mr. Curtis. That means you started what year? 

Mr. Boffa. Right the first year I came. 

Mr. Curtis. What is this society that you represent? 

Mr. Boffa. It is an American organization composed of Americans 
of Italian origin and of Italian liberals. 

Mr. Curtis. What is its name? 

Mr. Boffa. The Mazzini Society, Inc. 



11760 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Curtis. Will you explain, briefly, for the committee the pur- 
pose of the Mazzini Society? 

PURPOSE OF MAZZINI SOCIETY 

Mr. BoFFA. The Mazzini Society has the following aims: To spread 
democratic education among the population of Italians and those of 
Italian origin in the United States; cooperate with the nations fight- 
ing for the victory of the democratic ideals in the struggle against 
naziism and fascism; to keep the American public informed about 
the true conditions in Italy; to strengthen the faith of the American 
people in the future of a free Italy. 

Mr. Curtis. Do you admit noncitizens to membership? 

Mr. BoFFA. Yes. 

Mr. Curtis. It is made up of both American citizens and aliens? 

Mr. BoFFA. Yes; anti-Fascists. 

Mr. Curtis. They must be anti-Fascists? 

Mr. BoFFA. Yes. 

Mr. Curtis. How do you check on that? 

Mr. BoFFA. We are very careful about the people we take in our 
ranks. I would say that up to now no Fascists have come in. I have 
never seen the case of any Fascist trying to join our organization. 

Mr. Curtis. Is your organization a national one, or just a local one? 

Mr. BoFFA. Our organization is a national one. 

Mr. Curtis. Where is its headquarters? 

Mr. BoFFA. The headquarters are at 1775 Broadway, New York. 
If you care to know some of the members of the society, I would b& 
glad to give it to you. 

Mr. Curtis. All right. 

Mr. BoFFA. The president is Prof. Max Ascoli, who is now one of 
the directors of the Pan American Institute for Cultural Relations la 
Washington; Prof. G. A. Borgese, Chicago University, Illinois; 
Prof. G. Buonfante, Princeton University, New Jersey. And there 
are in our ranks 30 or 40 more professors of universities of the United 
States. 

Mr. Curtis. And your objective is the establishment of a free Italy? 

Mr. BoFFA. Our objective is to try to educate the Americans of 
Italian origin to be democratic minded, to have faith in the institutions- 
of this country and help the establishment of a free Italy. 

Mr. Bender. Don't you want some of them to be Repubhcans, too? 

Mr. BoFFA. As long as they are Americans. 

Mr. Arnold. You have heard of the Republican Party, haven't 
you? 

Mr. BoFFA. Yes. 

Mr. Curtis. They will all be Repubhcans eventually when they 
find out what is going on. 

Now, what measures would you suggest for the treatment of anti- 
Fascists in this country who are considered citizens of Italy, even 
though not so considered by the Italian Government? 

Mr. BoFFA. Before anything else, I would like to submit to your 
committee a report made by our national secretary. 

Mr. Arnold. Just give it to the reporter and it will be pubhshedi 
in our report in full. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11761 

(The report referred to above is as follows:) 

STATEMENT BY THE MAZZINI SOCIETY, INC., 1775 BROADWAY, 

NEW YORK 

Submitted by Attilio Boffa, Los Angeles, Calif. 

The following is a short description of the conditions which have developed in 
Italian liberal circles after the outbreak of the war and of the suggested remedies 
for a state of affairs which obviously demands immediate and bold governmental 
action. 

As a consequence of the state of war between the United States and Italy, aU 
Italian natives, have been declared "enemy aliens." 

A small number, about 250, classified as dangerous, have been apprehended 
and, unless cleared by the Special Board of Inquiry appointed by the Department 
of Justice, will be interned for the duration of the war. 

A certain number of restrictions have been imposed upon all "enemy aliens," 
namely: 

Surrender of firearms, cameras, and shortwave radios, prohibition to move from 
place to place out of the boundaries of the city, town, or village, without per- 
mission to be applied for 1 week in advance, new registration and finger printing 
and, after the registration, obligation to carry a special identification card. 

Further measures are now being taken, to wit: (a) Enemy aliens will be com- 
pletely barred from the west coast and will have to move to places in the interior. 
(6) Enemy aliens who, having filed their first naturalization papers were entitled 
under the Selective Service Act to be drafted into the United States Army, are 
now being excluded. 

That a certain amount of personal inconvenience and possibly some injustice 
should be inevitable at the start, when there is a war on and the safety of the 
country must be the paramount consideration, is well understood and generally 
accepted. 

However, now, after almost 3 months, the reaction is somewhat different. 

The Fascist Italian, devoted servant of his masters, Hitler and Mussolini, who 
has been interned, or who is going to be placed on bail or parole, knows very well 
that he has received exactly what he deserves and that the measures taken by the 
administration are very rightly taken in legitimate self-defense. He cannot and 
presumably does not complain. 

The decent Italian, who out of ignorance, stupidity or misguided feeling of loyalty 
to the old country, at the bottom of his heart still hopes for a Fascist victory, 
though restraining from any unlawful action in this country, of which he has sense 
enough to acknowledge at least the generous hospitality, realizes that his feelings 
and loyalties have to be taken into account and that a country at war is bound to 
protect itself not only against what the enemy in its midst actually does, but 
against what he might conceivably do. 

Those who are really aggrieved, those who suffer morally and materially, those 
who are hurt because they deeply feel and resent the injustice done to them are the 
Italian anti-Fascists, those who have devoted all their lives and efforts to the 
struggle against Fascism, those who have abandoned their country, their positions, 
their families, those who have tried year after year to warn the world, to warn this 
country, of the impending dangers of fascism, those who have tried to open those 
eyes that only Pearl Harbor has finally succeeded in getting opened. 

It seems incredible for these veterans of the anti-Facist war, for this advanced 
patrol of the United Nations who have been the first to bear the brunt of the 
totalitarian brutality, to be forced to carry the label of enemy aliens, to have to 
apply for permission for moving about, and most of all to be excluded from the 
armed service in the United States Army. 

They are becoming day by day more demoralized. They cannot understand 
that in this war, which is admittedly, not a national war in the old sense, but is a 
conflict of ideas, of principles, of human and international ethics, they should be 
forcibly confined to the adverse camp, while the open champions of nazism and 
fascism, the various Popes, Patrizis, Trombettas and Criscuolos can, by simply 
producing their naturalization papers, wrap themselves in the American flag 
and continue undisturbed with their old activities. 

The feelings of the old Italian anti-Fascists and of the refugees are even rnore 
hurt as they are well aware that a definite clean-cut precedent exists, and if it 
could be adopted in this country, the problem could be easily solved, not only to 
their benefit, but to the ultimate benefit of the war effort of the United Nations. 



11762 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

The precedent to which reference is made was set by England in 1939, and 
except for a short interruption during the days of the invasion scare, is still in full 
force and effect. 

When the war started, the British Government realized that a large proportion 
of the so-called enemy aliens in the country, that is to say, people who were 
traveling on German and Austrian passports were political, religious, and racial 
refugees, and that it would have been, on one hand, profoundly unfair to consider, 
brand, and treat them as aliens, and on the other hand, it would have been 
equalh^ mistaken to deprive the Nation of the services of many capable, intelli- 
gent, trained men and women whose feelings were likely to be, at least at that 
time, much more bitter against Hitler and his Nazi gang than the feelings of any 
Briton in the blessed islands. 

The solution was easily found and it consisted of creating in every district 
special tribunals, presided over by a judge, magistrate, or lawyer of great experi- 
ence, assisted by advisors and interpreters provided by the recognized refugee 
organizations. These tribunals examined all enemy aliens, considered the evi- 
dence collected as to their respective cases by the police, the various intelligence 
services and the refugee organizations, and according to the results of the inquiry 
would classify the alien in one of the following three classes: 

Class A. Reputed dangerous — Interned for the duration of the war. 

Class B. Nondangerous — Presumed friendly, but not showing complete evi- 
dence of democratic background and sentiments — Generally free, but subject to 
certain controls and restrictions. 

Class C. Definitely loyal persons — Free from whatever restrictions, except in 
strictly military areas — May also be freed of this restriction upon application to 
the local authorities. Class C aliens, were officially defined friendly aliens, 
victims of Nazi oppression. Their alien registration cards (issued to all foreigners 
residing in the United Kingdom) which have been marked with a red label 
"Alien enemy" were changed back into the ordinary black one of "Friendly 
aliens." 

A good many of these class C aliens were subsequently admitted into the Army, 
to special civil defense services, war industries, and not a single case has been 
heard of a class C alien having been caught engaging in any disloyal activity. 

It is realized that the terms of the problem in this country are not identical 
with those of England. The number of Italians in the United States is no doubt 
much larger than the number of Germans and Austrians in England. The pro- 
portion of anti-Fascist exiles and of political, racial, or rehgious refugees on the 
other hand is much smaller. 

The wise solution is probably this: 

Boards of inquiry or tribunals should be set up, more or less along the same 
lines as the English ones. Not all Italians, however, should be required to submit 
their cases. The great mass of nondescript immigrants and residents, for lack of 
political maturity and understanding and possibly out of fear of being accused 
of disloyalty to their native land and to be made to suffer in the future, will 
probably accept the label of enemy aliens and will not bother to apply for an 
investigation and a discriminating treatment. But the anti-Fascist old guard, 
the political, religious, and racial refugees from Fascist Italy will be given a fair 
chance of clearing themselves and thereupon may be classified and treated not 
only as friendly aliens, but as actual active allies in this gigantic struggle which 
is not only intended for the defense of American soil, and ways of life, but for the 
restoration of justice and liberty to the conquered nations, including Italy. The 
contributions they can offer are not to be calculated only in terms of men ready 
to join the armed forces of the United Nations, bringing the benefit of their often 
remarkable military experience, or of men who could aid in the war industry. 
They could cooperate with the latent revolutionary forces in Italy and in Europe 
generally; they could work with important Italian communities in Latin America 
and most of all among the Italo- American masses in this country, who after years 
of subtle and persistent Fascist propaganda need enlightenment, encouragement, 
and inspiration if they are to be persuaded to work full heartedly for a demo- 
cratic victory. 

TESTIMONY OF ATTILIO BOFFA— Resumed 

Mr. BoFFA, After hearing this morning the testimony of Dr. 
Thomas Mann there is nothing very much else for me to say. The 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11763 

political and racial refugees could not have hoped for a more eloquent 
and authoritative sponsor. 

For my part, I want to emphasize that we are not discussing the 
right and duty of our country to protect herself. We only express 
our hope and faith that once more the best traditions of this great 
democracy will be upheld and that the veterans of the anti-Fascist 
war, who have been the first to bear the brunt of the totalitarian 
brutality will be from now on considered as friendly aliens and able 
to cooperate for the final victory of the cause to which they have 
dedicated their lives. 

And for this reason we suggest that there should be studied the 
possibility of the establishment of a board of inquiry to examine their 
cases. 

Not all Italians however should be required to submit cases. The 
great mass of nondescript immigrants and residents, for lack of polit- 
ical maturity and understanding and possibly out of fear of being 
accused of disloyalty to their native land and to be made to suffer in 
the future, will probably accept the label of enemy aliens and will not 
bother to apply for an investigation and a discriminating treatment. 
But the anti-Fascist old guard, the political, religious and racial 
refugees from Fascist Italy should be given a fair chance of clearing 
themselves and being classified and treated not only as friendly aliens, 
but as actual active allies in this gigantic struggle; a struggle 'which is 
not only intended for the defense of American soil, and way of life, but 
for the restoration of justice and liberty to the conquered nations, 
including Italy. The contributions they can offer are not to be calcu- 
lated only in terms of men ready to join the armed forces of the United 
Nations, bringing the benefit of their often remarkable military experi- 
ence, or' of men who could aid in the war industry. They could 
cooperate with the latent revolutionary forces in Italy and in Europe 
generally; they could work with important Italian communities in 
Latin America and most of all among the Italo-American masses in 
this country, who after j'^ears of subtle and persistent Fascist propa- 
ganda need enlightenment, encouragement and inspiration if they 
are to be persuaded to work full heartedly for a democratic victory. 

Mr. Curtis. Now, this matter of moving certain people is a mili- 
tary decision and will have to be made on the basis of what is the best 
thing to do in order to win this war. After that decision is made, 
members of your society will comply with whatever the Government 
requests? 

Mr. BoFFA. Absolutely. We are ready to cooperate with all the 
Government agencies. The only thing we ask is that the boards in 
question should be set up as soon as possible so as to give a chance to a 
few hundred of clearing themselves of the stigma of "enemy alien"; 
I don't think in southern California there would be more than 100 
persons; I don't know exactly the number, but there are very, very 
few who are bona fide anti-Fascist political or racial refugees. We 
think that these people should not be considered as enemy aliens but 
should be treated as friendly aliens and have the same privileges as 
other aliens. They would be a great help to the eft'ort of the com- 
munity in which they live and of the country in the prosecution of this 
war. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much, Mr. Boffa, for coming here 
and giving your testimony. 



11764 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

TESTIMONY OF DR. F. W. HECKLEMAN, BISHOP JAMES C. BAKER, 
AND DR. E. C. FARNHAM 

Mr. Arnold. Congressman Bender will interrogate you. 

Mr. Bender. Your name is Dr. F. W. Hecldeman? 

Dr. Heckleman. Yes. 

Mr. Bender. Will you introduce the other gentlernen? 

Dr. Heckleman. The gentleman on my right is Bishop James C. 
Baker of the Methodist Church; the other gentleman is Dr. E. C. 
Farnham, executive secretary, Church Federation of Los Angeles. 

Mr. Bender. You are Bishop James C. Baker? 

Bishop Baker. Yes. 

Mr. Bender. And you are a bishop of the Methodist Church? 

Bishop Baker. Yes. 

Mr. Bender. Of this area? 

Bishop Baker. Yes. 

Mr. Bender. Dr. Heckleman, the committee understands that 
you have requested to be heard. 

Dr. Heckleman. I did not request to be heard, but the officers 
requested me to make a statement. 

Mr. Bender. We heard your colleague, Dr. Frank Smith, in 
San Francisco with a group representing the Protestant Churches 
of that area. 

Will you proceed in your own way and tell us the views of the 
Federation on the forthcoming evacuation? Just proceed in your 
own way. Doctor. 

Dr. Heckleman. I should like to make a statement here today, 
first of all with regard to the spirit and service rendered by the Protes- 
tant forces of this area; and then, in the second place, to call your 
attention to the type of service we hope to render hereafter. 

ATTITUDE OF FEDERATION OF CHURCHES 

For the first time, in this area, the Protestant Christian forces of 
America come officially before an official body of the Government to 
make a statement of their attitude, their recent and proposed future 
service in behalf of the evacuation of aliens and other designated resi- 
dents from certain areas of the west coast. 

Needless to say our attitude is to render the utmost service so as to 
make the task of the Government, in this colossal undertaking, as 
easy as possible. For the most part the Governrnent, through its 
various agencies, must deal with machinery which is already set up. 
It is the special mission of the Christian forces in this time of crisis to 
deal with the inner and social life of the people in order that their 
rights may be interpreted and guarded and that their misunderstand- 
ings may be corrected, that their fears may be allayed and that they 
may be assured that the cherished freedoms of our democratic insti- 
tutions will function for all alike, including the racial minorities and 
aliens in our midst. We beheve that the word of Diognetus of the 
first century to be true that — 

what the soul is to the body Christians are to the world, that Christians hold the 
world together. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11765 

Until now the Christian forces of this area have rendered a great 
deal of service. They have kept close to the mind and heart, especially 
of the Japanese people, in our midst. Our understanding of the Jap- 
anese people, their psychology, and the problems that have troubled 
them, and many of us, on the west coast, have made it possible for us 
to render unseen and unrecorded service at much sacrifice. Some of 
our Christian groups have spent much time and have made large 
sacrifices in aiding the people who have already been evacuated. 
Places of temporary residences have been sought, and other more 
permanent locations have had much study in order that the task of 
resettlement might be made as humane and as kindly as possible. 
We have had constantly before us problems of the break-up of busi- 
nesses established through years of hard toil, and of families and groups 
torn from cherished homes and communities. Already many fathers, 
for a number of reasons, are under detention. We have rendered 
service in the hearings in which Japanese were examined as to their 
doings in America and their loyalty to our institutions. We believe 
that much suffering could have been softened or perhaps prevented 
and much expense avoided if some of us who know Japan and the 
Japanese had been called into hearings before detention was ordered 
of quite a large number now in detention institutions. We therefore 
offer our services that hereafter advantage may be taken of those who 
can render special service in order that the stigma of wrongdoing 
may soon be removed from those involved and the fear and anxiety 
of their families alleviated. 

Needless to say, the Christian forces are committed to the vigilant 
seeking out and effective restraint of citizens and aliens alike whose 
ideologies and actions are inimical to the common good, or dangerous 
to our beloved land, its treasured freedoms, and its democratic institu- 
tions. 

PROFOUND SIGNIFICANCE IN MASS EVACUATION 

We believe that mass evacuation of an entire minority group, both 
of aliens and citizens alike, is a policy of such profound and far- 
reaching significance, that we need to avail ourselves of all of the 
moral and religious forces within the life of our people in order that 
our country may not become divided into discordant elements, work- 
ing^ within the soul of the Nation to the destruction of national unity. 
Unjust racial discrimination and intolerance must not be laid at the 
doors of democratic America. To be guilty of such an attitude and 
action would be to play the ignoble game of the enemy and to make 
it possible for him to exploit this conflict, forced upon us, as a war of 
races. As Christians we deeply share with all loyal Americans the 
conviction that the rights and dignity of every person within our 
borders must be guarded at all costs. 

We share the spirit of the two pertinent statements made by our 
Attorney General Francis Biddle upon the opening of hostilities 
between Japan and America. He said: 

The enemy has attacked more than the soil of America. 

He has attacked our institutions, our freedoms, the principles on 
which our Nation is founded. The war we wage today is in defense of 
these principles. We must guard them at home. 



11766 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

The defense of our country will be hurt by any persecution of our 
noncitizens. If we create the feeling among aliens and other foreign- 
bom that they are not wanted here, we shall endanger our national 
unity, and defeat what we ourselves are defending. 

It is of the utmost importance therefore that every consideration 
be given to alien residents within limits of public safety ; that we should 
carefully distinguish between actual danger from enemy aliens and 
war psychology; and that as the concentration of many people, by 
force, into strange environments involves such complete break-up of 
life that a great responsibility rests upon us all. It involves not only 
the means of decent living, but problems of treatment in new localities, 
problems of health, education, religion, and feelings that have far- 
reaching influence on their future relations to our national life. We 
cannot help asking ourselves very often: Is this wholesale evacuation 
necessary when the vast majority are people of education, character, 
and undoubted loyalty? 

SERVICES OFFERED BY PROTESTANT CHRISTIANS 

The Protestant Christian forces of this area through the home 
mission council offer their services, among other things, for the 
following: 

To keep up morale, to provide religious and moral guidance and to 
help in education. 

The national boards of our various churches can supply several 
experts in agriculture, education, community planning, who will co- 
operate with the Federal and State authorities in making adequate 
plans for settlement, and to cooperate with existing social agencies in 
the neighborhood of new settlements. 

To do our utmost to help in the coordination of Government activi- 
ties relating to aliens in the process of evacuation. 

We propose to contact all areas in southern California where there 
are Japanese churches, and around them as centers help Christians 
and non-Christians alike to prepare for evacuation, giving help 
regarding: 

Inventory of all real and personal Japanese properties. 

Providing local places to store temporarily or permanently any 
personal property left behind. 

Arrange for trusted local American custodians to act for the Japan- 
ese with the Government coordinator or custodian in dealing with 
alien or citizen properties. 

To assist in providing the methods and means of travel when evacu- 
ation takes place. 

To assist in providing canteen service along the way. 

To advise people about the care of their personal property — not to 
sell any of it except for the utmost need for money. Not to spend 
money carelessly. 

To advise them regarding machinery and tools which f arniers must, 
perhaps, leave behind until transportation can be provided when 
needed. 

To help adjust crop problems and adjustments necessary due to new 
tenants on land vacated or other properties. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11767 

We are saying to the Japanese: Do not move until the order comes, 
and until you know where you are going. The Government is making 
preparation and will do the utmost to take care of you. 

Keep up your regular work so as not to disrupt business or produc- 
tion. We say this especially to the 1,172 Japanese farmers who oper- 
ate 25,600 acres of produce farm lands. 

We urge the Japanese people to pay all debts and to clear all 
personal obligations. , 

Wherever possible to arrange for stores, laundries, farms, nurseries, 
and other services to be continued through arrangement with respon- 
sible American friends. 

To offer aid regarding property insurance, payments on properties, 
or taxes. 

To offer 88 church buildings for storage of personal property when 
and if needed and agreed to by local custodians in cooperation with 
Government custodians. 

We offer the services of 80 well-trained Japanese Christian pastors 
who will follow their people wherever they may go. 

Finally we offer the services of 20 American men and women 
missionaries, who will serve wherever possible. 

WOULD PRECEDE EVACUATION GROUPS 

In conclusion we are ready to respond to the call of the Govern- 
ment. We will gladly go ahead of the groups to do what we can to 
prepare the way and places for them; and we are ready to go with 
them to share in their fate, their lives, their fortunes, and for their 
spiritual guidance and comfort, in order that the soul of Christian 
America may speak to the soul of our Japanese brethren now in deep 
distress. 

I have also the pleasure to present a memorandum to Col. W. L. 
Magill, director of evacuation, which has to do with similar problems. 

Mr. Arnold. Just give it to the reporter and it will be made an 
exhibit in our record. 

Mr. Bender. Doctor, is it your impression that the rehgious leader- 
ship of the Japanese, German, or Italian evacuees should follow, or 
should be permitted to go ahead with them irrespective of what that 
leadership happens to be? 

Dr. Heckleman. It seems to me from my own observation that in 
the evacuation problems those who have aided in that problem have 
been almost entirely Christians. 

May I also say that in the Christian leadership, as I have already 
said, we have a large number of well-educated pastors and there is a 
group of 20 missionaries and 10 women who are educated, trained, 
many of them having spent many years in Japan — I myself spent 36 
years in Japan — ^and a good many of us are well prepared, I believe, 
to render very efficient service. 

Mr. Bender. Before I come back to you for questions if we have 
time, I wonder if Bishop Baker would care to offer something. 

Bishop Baker. Well, I came because Dr. Heckleman and Dr. 
Farnham are representing the general Protestant forces. I am 



11768 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

related to the Methodist work on this entire coast with quite a large 
Japanese mission and also the mission in Hawaii. I also had charge 
in Japan for 4 years. Therefore, I have some acquaintance with the 
general situation so far as the Japanese are concerned and I am 
tremendously interested as an American in the way in which we 
handle this very difficult and complex situation. 

I came as a delegate of this group, rather than to make any direct 
statement myself. 

Mr. Arnold. Doctor, Delegate King of Hawaii has wired members 
of the Tolan committee to go to Hawaii in connection with the 
Japanese problem there, which, of course, it is impossible for us to do. 
However, do you have any suggestions as to the problem in Hawaii 
regarding the tremendous Japanese population there? 

Bishop Baker. I have no suggestion other than that which is now 
being followed out. For example, you have a very helpful approach 
to the situation out there through men who know the Japanese 
language. We have ourselves, from the Methodist Church, four 
returned missionaries who have been very helpful as interpreters, both 
for the Government and for the Japanese themselves who could not 
speak English. There are other returned people from Japan who can 
be helpful with the military in finding out the actual facts concerning 
the character of the folks who are involved. 

The situation there is very difficult. I go there every year and I 
know something of the enormous problem at first hand. 

CHRISTIAN AGENCIES IN GENERAL AGREEMENT 

Mr. Arnold. Do any of you gentlemen have anything that you 
care to say regarding the various Christian agencies, both Catholic and 
Protestant? Has there been agreement as to the general items speci- 
fied in Dr. Heckleman's report? 

Bishop Baker. Dr. Farnham represents officially the different 
bodies. I think he can make an affirmative answer. 

Dr. Farnham. I think there is general agreement on these points. 
There have been a great many conferences during the last few weeks 
while this problem has been before us in most acute form. 

The Japanese Church Federation of the southern California terri- 
tory has been in continuous conference with the Church Federation 
of Los Angeles through which the Protestant denominations operate 
so that there is very general agreement. 

I would like to say that the consensus within the Protestant circle 
as I can find it is that there is great satisfaction with the way the 
Government officials are handling the matter. If there has been this 
disposition to push around, which was a matter of concern, as you said 
a few moments ago, I think it is just the cumulative effect, public 
interest and expression, more than an action on the part of the officials 
of the Government themselves. 

The consensus within the Protestant circle, as I find it, is in complete 
accord with the Government as to military necessity. There has 
been, and there still exists, I am convinced, a widespread hope that 
there may be a selective process in the evacuation rather than just 
a mass procedure, feeling that there are individual cases, as has been 
mentioned by Mr. Booth of the Friends Service Committee, such 
as the students and others with health conditions and possibly some 



XATION-\L DEFENSE MIGRATION 11769 

in gainful productive employment that ought to be given special 
consideration, rather than being simply moved en masse. It may be 
for the economic as well as the social well-being of our country if 
regard can be given to those individual cases. 

A DEPOSIT OF GOOD WILL FOR THE FUTURE 

Likewise, to give regard to the individuals, may constitute a deposit 
of good will for the future when this war is over, as we hope it will be 
soon, when we want to reestablish our national life on sound, whole- 
some lines of good will and cooperation. 

It is the hope of the Protestant forces — I am not authorized at aU 
to speak for the Catholics but I can presume that this would be the 
case ^^■ith them also — that if it becomes a mass evacuation it could 
be done on an area or community basis so as to preserve a good deal 
of the community identities that these^ people have enjoyed in their 
original home situation, which, of course, would mean automatically 
that our congregational life would be preserved to a considerable 
degree. 

We think that their happiness, their social weU-being, and their 
future would be aided considerably if that commimal life which they 
have enjoyed hitherto could be perpetuated in a new setting. It is 
our hope, of course, that there will be opportunity for continued 
spiritual ministry, both by the Japanese clergy, in whom we have great 
confidence, and also our missionaries. That would be assisted 
greatly if we could preserve at least to a considerable degree, the 
congregational life as they have had it heretofore. 

It has been our experience, at least it is our conviction, that within 
the Christian families there is a splendid degree of loyalty to our 
country. I say that out of my own personal contact with our Japa- 
nese Christian leaders. I feel personally, and I am satisfied that my 
associates in the church feel, that this constitutes another deposit of 
great value to the future of our country. So that we need to encour- 
age the spiritual ministry. I think that is alll I have to say except 
to answer your questions. 

QUESTIONS STRICTLY RELIGIOUS COLONIZATIOXS 

Mr. Bender. Is there anything that you gentlemen wish to com- 
ment on, either Bishop Baker, or either of the doctoi-s, as to groupings 
of these people along religious lines. Would you feel that it is desir- 
able, if there is wholesale evacuation, that it be done without any 
regard for religious cleavage or religious identification? For example, 
as we find the community now, we have on A Street maybe 15 ditl'er- 
ent faiths represented. You have no desier to group these in any 
specific way, but rather have the evacuation conducted along American 
lines with the choice of religious agency made convenient to the indi- 
vidual as it is at the present time? 

Dr. Farnham. If I may speak on that: That has been discussed in 
our circles and I think in others as well. I think the Protestant phil- 
osophy would not favor a colonization on strictly religious lines. The 
Protestant concept is rather to have our people permeate society, as 
you have already described. Therefore, if these people could be 
moved by communities, automatically, the religious identifications 



11770 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

would be preserved, or served. I personally would question whether 
a strictly religious colonization would be in keeping with our demo- 
cratic outlook. 

Dr. Heckelman. I want to emphasize that approach. In the com- 
munity where I live, San Gabriel Valley, we have Christians and non- 
Christians and others, and all feel that a community or an area mov- 
ing out, evacuating, would be the wise thing to do. It would keep 
up the community interests, friendships, and family relationships 
which would be of very great value. 

May I answer a question you asked me a moment ago regarding 
leadership among the people. In the San Gabriel Valley where we 
have a large number of Japanese people who have become Christians, 
and we have had many months of contact with them. Only one young 
man was arrested and taken to Missoula in December, and he came 
back yesterday morning excused on the ground of mistaken identity. 
So that our community is absolutely intact without one single arrest^ 
and I think it is because of the very intimate and close relationship 
we have had with the people there. 

Mr. Bender. Bishop, would you care to comment regarding the 
war effort? Is it your view that in this war we must not fail and we 
have got to make every sacrifice, personal and otherwise, in order to 
win the war? 

Bishop Baker. There is no question at all about the peril in which 
the democracies stand, and in which the United States and other 
more or less liberal governments find themselves. 

SAFEGUARDING THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES 

I believe that it is an all-out affair. But at the same time I think 
that one of the most important things for us to be doing while we are 
in the midst of our war effort, is to guard the essential democratic 
processes of our life, recognizing the rights of people who are citizens, 
even if they stem from nations with which we are at war, and do- 
everything that we possibly can against mounting race prejudices and 
hatreds. 

While the Government has been very fine in its approach to this 
particular problem, a great many things have happened in our com- 
munities which give any earnest, democrat vast concern, lest whUe 
we are trying to win the war we should break down more and more 
the things that make us a nation. Have I answered your question? 

Mr. Bender. Yes; you have answered my question. The thought 
that this committee has in mind is exactly as you indicate. We have 
only in mind the protection of our citizens generally and to see 
that no injustice is done even to the noncitizen if he is loyal to our 
Government. 

Bishop Baker. I have heard, if I may make the remark, only the 
finest things from the standpoint of our essential American ideahsm 
concerning the way in which this committee has operated. 

Mr. Bender. Thank you very much. Is there anything more that 
you gentlemen care to offer? 

Bishop Baker. I should like to say just this additional word: 
It has already been suggested, but I know how hard your problem is. 
I am just as sure of the loyalty of the great numbers of our Japanese 
citizens as I am of the loyalty of the general average in the United 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11771 

States. In other words, I am very much more sure of the loyalty of 
some of them than I am of some of the people who are whipping up 
hysteria and race prejudice and things of that kind. 

Mr. Bender. Congressman Arnold or Congressman Curtis may 
have some further questions. 

Mr. Curtis. I am glad to see you here. I am especially interested 
in your contribution, especially your specific suggestions, as I value 
your thought on the subject. Those specific suggestions are very 
helpful. We are living in days when these decisions and acts are not 
easy, and every day I express my gratitude for Chi*istian men and 
women such as you people and those whom you represent, and their 
willingness to ease the burden of our day. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much, gentlemen. 

Keverend Suzuki. If Mr. Clark should come in, we might ask 
you to leave the stand and then return because he will be in a hurry. 

TESTIMONY OF REV. LESTER SUZUKI, 1224 WEST THIRTY-FIFTH 
STREET, LOS ANGELES, CALIF. 

Reverend Suzuki. I will be very brief and to the point. My name 
is Lester Suzuki. 

Mr. Curtis. Where do you live, Reverend? 

Reverend Suzuki. I five at 1224 West Thu'ty-fifth Street, Los 
Angeles. 

Mr. Curtis. How old are you? 

Reverend Suzuki. I am 32. I am the English-speaking pastor of 
the Japanese Methodist Church. 

Mr. Curtis. Where were you born? 

Reverend Suzuki. I was born in the Hawaiian Islands. I had part 
of my education there, and the rest of it over here. 

Mr. Bender. Whom do you represent? 

Reverend Suzuki. I represent the Southern California Japanese 
Church Federation, with 29 member churches and 11 other affiliated 
churches, 5,000 members. 

I also represent the Pacific Japanese Methodist Conference, of whom 
I am the treasurer, with 40 churches throughout the coast, in Arizona, 
Idaho, and Colorado. We have a membership of about 5,000, church 
school membership of 5,000, plus a family constituency of 5,000, 
making a total of 15,000 people we directly touch. 

Incidentally, the Methodists are 50 percent Republicans and 50 
percent Democrats, so we don't disagree with you. 

Mr. Bender. I think you are mistaken about that. I think that 
about 51 percent of them are Republicans. 

Reverend Suzuki. Well, we will give you the benefit of the doubt. 

My wife and I are both second generation Japanese-Americans, and 
we have two children who are third generation Americans. I was 
born in the Hawaiian Islands and had my early education there. I 
have lived many years both in northern and southern California. I 
have lived for a few years apiece in Washington State, Colorado, New 
York, and New Jersey. I speak for a wide range of our people. 

Mr. Curtis. Reverend, you have heard the testimony of Dr. 
Heckleman. 

Reverend Suzuki. Yes, 

Mr. Curtis. Supplemented by the other two gentlemen. 



11772 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Reverend Suzuki. Yes. 

Mr. Curtis. Is there any additional information that you would 
like to give to this committee? 

THE FORCE OF THE CHURCH IN THE AMERICANIZATION PROCESS 

Reverend Suzuki. I have very little to say. But I want to show 
some of the fundamental feelings and attitudes that we may have. 
I speak directly for the Christian and Japanese-Americans. First, 
I want to say that the church is the best Americanizing force in the 
United States, second to the public schools. We believe in building 
good citizens. We always have. _ Not only now, but long years ago 
and forever. A good citizen requires good character. The best char- 
acter is a good Christian character. I don't think you would disagree 
with me as to that, would you? And we try to build good Christian 
character from the ground up. America is built on good Christian, 
democratic principles, we are very sure. We have a history here in 
southern California of 50 years, 50 years of Christian Japanese history, 
and 65 years of our Methodist history on the coast, of good sound 
building of character. 

(The following additional statement by the witness was received 
later and made a part of his testimony, at his request:) 

In regards to the Japanese language schools conducted by the Christian churches 
or in connection with them, we can say that many Japanese Christian churches 
did conduct language schools under their auspices. But we want to point out 
that there is a distinct difference between these Christian language schools and 
other non-Christian or other secular schools. The Christian language schools 
were an Americanizing and Christianizing force, rather than a Japanizing force. 
They taught the language proper, but not anything in Japanese loyalty, principles^ 
or anything subversive or near subversive. 

They were a necessary factor in the program of Christianizing our Japanese 
people. If the Christian churches had not conducted their own language schools, 
the other non-Christian and secular language schools would have absorbed our 
youngsters and the Christianizing and Americanizing power would have been 
absent, and we would have had far less good Japanese-Americans. Therefore 
to put our Christian language schools under the same category of Japanese 
language schools is a distinct error and we wish it to be corrected. 

We want to reassure you that whatever the Federal Government 
thinks ought to be done, we will do. We will cooperate fully with the 
Government. But since you are still finding facts and investigating 
and wanting to know what is the wise and just way of evacuation, 
or the problems connected with it, we want to say how we feel. We 
are loyal Americans. There is no doubt about us. And we are loyal 
residents. Our place is in America and we want to serve America. 

Incidentally, I want to inform you that 6 years ago I was pro- 
hibited, debarred from landing in Japan because they said I was too 
proud as an American. My wife and myself both. We were proud 
to be Americans but we were not there to argue with them. 

Four of the officers of our Japanese Church Federation have sons 
serving in the United States combatant armed forces. Three of them 
have two apiece. We do want to serve America and we would be 
more useful here than elsewhere. For national defense and national 
offense, we would be more useful and of more service here than 
elsewhere. 

You say you can't take c ny chances because a few would be dis- 
loyal and subversive, but why not look at the positive side of the 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11773 

picture. We could use our knowledge and our physical make-up for 
America, for America and not for Japan. Of course, whatever wise 
thing the Government decides, we will do, but since you want to 
know some of the situations and facts, we would like to express that. 

And so, in your plan of evacuation, we would recommend that 
you would allow a good portion of the Japanese, and maybe a larger 
portion of the Japanese-Americans, to remain here and be of greater 
service and of greater usefulness for America's defense and offense. 

Mr. Bender. Reverend, when you took the stand, we informed 
you that Mr. Clark had another engagement, and he has now arrived. 
Will you leave the stand and resume after he is through. 

Reverend Suzuki. I was just about tlu'ough. 

Mr. Bender. Well, we will call you back. We have some questions 
to ask you. 

TESTIMONY OF TOM CLARK, CHIEF OF THE CIVILIAN STAFF OF 
GEN. JOHN L. DEWITT, UNITED STATES ARMY, FEDERAL BUILD- 
ING, LOS ANGELES, CALIF. 

Mr. Clark. I am chief of the civilian staff of Gen. John L. DeWitt 
of the United States Army, headquarters, Presidio, San Francisco, 
Calif. 

Mr. Arnold. The committee appreciates very much your testifying 
again, Mr. Clark. As you remember, when in San Francisco, we 
expressed the hope that you might appear in Los Angeles in about 
10 days to testify on later developments arising from the Executive 
order of the President. 

Mr. Clark. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arnold. Smce your last appearance we know that you have 
been appointed by General DeWitt to serve as his coordinator con- 
cerned with the evacuation problems. For the purpose of the record 
will you list at this time the Federal agencies represented in your 
organization. 

federal agencies represented 

Mr. Clark. Well, right now, we have about 12. I couldn't give 
you the names of all of them but I will give you the chief ones. For 
the last 2 days, we have been getting our organization together and 
assigning the work to each individual agency. 

The Federal Security Agency, of course, has several agencies under 
it, like the United States Employment Service, and other services of 
a like character. Each one of those are separate agencies under the 
governmental set-up. They are headed up byythe Federal Security 
Agency. 

Then we have the United States Department of Agriculture, which, 
of course, has quite a few agencies itself, as you well laiow, like the 
triple A, the Farm Security Administration, the Surplus Commodities 
Corporation and organizations like that. 

Our most important department right now, I think, is the United 
States Treasury Department. It is going to handle the property 
set-up. That is one of the main things we have been working on in the 
last couple of days. 



60396 — 42 — pt. 31 11 



117.4 LOS AXGELES and S-\X FRANCISCO TTT. ARTXGS 

Tiieii we have : ril Works Administration, commonly known 

as the W. P. A.. . ;y Mr. Nicholson, their regional director at 

Salt Lake City. 

Then we have the Bureau of the Census, who is handling aU of these 
statistics and the work of statisticians compiling at this time statistics 
that may be used as a guide by General DeWitt in an effort to deter- 
mine just what plans he must make. 

Then we have the Federal Reserve Bank under the Treasiuy. They 
have sent a man out here. There are four or five more arriving here 
toni^t from Washiogton from the Treasury Department. 

Then the Justice Department. Then we have the Indian Service. 
in the Department of the Interior. Through it we are m aking surveys 
of all the Indian reservations : not for the purpose of getting the Indi^is 
off of the reservations or of interfering with them in the least, but in an 
effort to try to deiermine just what land is available that already 
bdcmgs to the Government so that we might be able to take advantage 
of all of the opt ? and of all of the facilities that are now 

available to the G .^nt in this undertaking. 

Those are the n.ix.r. ones. I believe, sir. I will be happy to furnish 
yon a list that I have over at my office, of all of them. I hope you 
will pardon me for not remembering all the names. 

Mr. Bendes. Tou are trying to keep all the Indians on the reser- 
vation? 

\Ir. Claek. Yes, sir. I really am. 

Mr. AaxoLD. Have you gotten far enough along yet so that you can 
make provision for State and local participation? 

OPEHATIXG THBOUGH OFFICE OF CIVILTAX DEFENSE 

Mr. Clabk. Yes: we are working that largely through the O.'C. D. 
They have their local defense boards. We have found them to be 
ni.s: helpful. These defense boards have pretty good set-ups. For 
esmiDle. when we had the raid here, the defense board operated 
soaoozhlj and efficiently. We have found that since they have been 
he-i'ied up by Mr. Shenpard. who. by the way. is a citizen of Los 
An^'eles, he has molded them together even more effectively, and I 
think they will be most helpful in coordinating particularly the pubUc 
rdations problem, and of watching the developments in the field so 
that they can be reported qtiickly. 

Other agencies of a local nature and a State nature, of course, such 
as your State attorney general, Mr. Warren, have been most coopera- 
tive and helpful. 

Also, the local police. Our F. B. I. has found the local pohce 
officers and sheriffs indispensable in the work that the F. B. I. has 
been carrying oil We have found them that way too in the enforce- 
ment of what is commonly known as curfew regulations. The local 
police and sheriff and constabulary have been, well, I would say, the 
backbone of the curfew program. 

^Ir. CxTETis. Since our first hearings in San Francisco on February 
21 and 23, certain commtmications have gone from the committee to 
WashingtoiL I refer to the telegram to Speaker Raybum and Sec- 
retary Morgenthau and to the President. Are you famihar with 
those messages? 

;Mr. Ci^AEK- Xo, sir. 



XaTIOXaL DEFEXSE iHGRATIOX 11775 

Mr. Cfetis. I wiU read you the one that our diairmELii sent to 
Speaker Rarbum. Tliis is' dated: "San Francisco. February 23, 
1W2." 

We Tirr :- " "- - r-- -- ;-- -- of a Eepo^^ Alir- Prir-rrrv C-artodian 

Omce !•;- -- leamei of ruc-eriu? sicrif^ri o: =ales pj 

Sili ^ '^ ^ _, - -' - ^"rl ' Tr *r_r t 'i-C'^i"!-— CI X r" H -1 1 ■ ft j ^* lO. 

It Trust be I- - -^ a^^ evacuated. Marij 

■Rimesses be: - Citizeiii "srho rtiaj tie 

evacuateri wHi rcxiiiire s;;' i ^r \ for i^tir pr,:,Z'enj' and leas^iioti iL.aT 

be Deeded to «et ur- sueh a eu- . It is cur inipresaon that ibe lieed 

for sn alien-r : : " --------- ^^ 

for advance - - e 

eva:' ""' ■: r ^ — . -— — 7 

arte- - - -Tratepc : — -^ of 

the -.--:_-_-- _--:uiiei:t i:- - .... :-^_:'^^ 

evacuees, ihe lieed for ; coon inauoa oi an civuiaii 

agencies eoncemed with, e . . .-ts ix)"w". 

JOHX ToLiX, C 

We remember that you concurrtd wiib. us as to the ne: ^. : n 

property custodian. 

Mr. Clabk. les. sir. 

Mr. CiTBTis. Can you teU us what prcCTess has been made on the 
opening of such an office here on the west coast? You just said a 
moment ago that the Treasury Department was going to handle it. 
Can you tell us anything about it? 

^Ir. Clark. Yes. sir. Mr. Lawler is out here. He got here a few 
days ago. He is the Treasury representative. 

OBGAXIZATIOX BELNG SET UP 

As I told you a Httle while ago. there are five gentlemen coming out 
tonight. We have taken from the Treasuiy Department, well. I 
guess you would call it the "brain trust." That seems to be the 
popular phrase, or ust^ to be. I thi nk they have set up a very fine 
organization to take care of just the problem that you mentioned. It 
is going to be handled through the Federal Reserve banks and throtigh 
the member banks. That will also be coordinated with the Agricul- 
ture Department because the main problem, sir. is the agricultural 
problem. That covers the taking care of the growing crops and to 
see that loss is not suffered by the owner of the crops, as well as by 
the public in securing the vegetables. 

Mr. CuBTis. In conserving this proi>erty you are going to ran into 
problems of landlord and tenant, are you not? 

Mr. Clark. Yes. sir. 

Mr. CuBTis. And employer and employee? 

Mr. Clark. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Curtis. It will involve in some instances certain rights under 
compensation laws, both State and Federal, for amounts due or 
unemployment compensation. 

Mr. Clark. Perhaps so. 

Mr. Curtis. And you are going to be confronted with problems of 
chattel mortgages and hens? 

Mr. Clark. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Curtis. And some of these people will be parties who wiU 
present legal actions now pending in courts. Isn't that true? 

Mr. Clark. Yes. sir. 



11776 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Curtis. And some of them may be wards of courts in some few 

instances. Isn't that right? 

Mr. Clark. Possibly so. 

Mr. Curtis. As well as the various laws involving trusteeships, 
storage, and matters of that kind. Do you know whether or not, as 
a lawyer, those matters vary in different States that would be involved? 

Mr. Clark. Yes, sir. 

AGENCIES ASSISTING ALIEN PROPERTY CUSTODIAN 

Mr. Curtis. Can you tell what the set-up will be? Will men 
familiar with the law of the different States, as well as familiar with 
the customs of planting and harvesting and doing business and so on, 
be called upon to assist in this property custodianship? 

Mr. Clark. Yes, sir. We selected the Federal Reserve because 
of the fact that they are familiar with the local laws. We selected 
the Agriculture Department because they are familiar with the 
local crop conditions and can tell about the seasons and the type of 
crops and the type of labor usually used in gathering crops and 
things of that character. 

Mr. Curtis. I would commend to those men who have charge of 
that a very careful reading of the testimony of the panel w^e had 
yesterday, 'headed by the sheriff of this county, and one of the coimty 
commissioners, and a representative of the chamber of commerce, 
and the Agricidtural Coordinator. I think perhaps they made quite 
a contribution to that. 

Mr. Clark. I am glad to know about it. I will call that to the 
attention of Mr. Lawler. 

Mr. Curtis. Now, one other detailed question in regard to that 
property situation: In whom will the authority be vested to make 
a sale, release a mortgage or transact something else? Will that all 
clear through one office, or will your local agents of the property 
custodian's office be vested with authority to go ahead and handle 
those tilings expeditiously? 

Mr. Clark. They will be handled locally, sir. 

Mr. Curtis. But will all of the transactions be confirmed bv a local 
office? 

Mr. Clark. No. Mr. Lawler has fuU authority. We don't have 
to refer anything back to Washington at all, the way I understand it, 
and I suppose he intends to delegate his authority to his agents 
through the banks. 

IMr. Bender. Some of the gentlemen of the press are indicating to 
me that they are not conversant with ]Mr. Lawler's background. Will 
you, for their benefit, give them his name and his experience. 

Mr. Clark. His name is John Lawler. He was out here last 
December. He made a study of this problem. A com^mittee was 
sent out here of three agencies last December. I think they composed 
Agriculture, Treasury, and Justice. I believe Justice was the other 
one. They made a study of the problem and Mr. Lawler has been 
sent back by the Treasur}^ now. 

Mr. Bender. Other than the announcement in the newspapers, do 
you contemplate formal notification of each individual or family 
group to be evacuated as to the services which your division has to 
offer? 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11777 

Mr. Clark. Yes, sir; as nearly as possible. 

Mr. Bender. That is, you are going to take the necessary steps so 
that each family and individual involved will know exactly what is 
expected of him and how to proceed? 

CANNOT SEND PERSONAL NOTICE TO EVERY INDIVIDUAL 

Mr. Clark. Well, I would say this: We have, of course, the names 
and addresses of all of the aliens, through the F. B. I., through the last 
registration, and we intend to use that list. As far as personal notice 
to every person, it is almost going to be impossible to do that because 
we don't have the addresses of everyone. However, we intend to, 
through the good offices of some of the Japanese newspapers and 
through the press and radio and by the use of handbills, get the word 
over to them in pretty good shape. 

One newspaper, I understand, has a circulation of some 55,000 here. 
It has been very cooperative. 1 think we will be able to get word over 
to the people involved without much trouble. If we find someone 
there whom we, after investigation, laiow did not have notice, we will 
take that mto consideration as to whether or not he should be interned 
or just what should happen to him. 

A Voice. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask a question here. 
You have been speaking about chattel mortgages and other mortgages. 
In case of evacuation, what is going to happen to these properties? 
Is there going to be a moratorium made on payments? 

Air. Curtis. I think it is well that that question be raised and be 
put in our record. Are you prepared to give that information in 
detail at this time, Mr. Clark? 

Mr. Clark. That is a matter for the Treasury to work out. The 
head of the Office of Price Administration, Mr. Henderson, sent out 
Mr. Thomas, who came out yesterday. I don't know Mr, Thomas' 
given name. I met about 20 of these people yesterday. I don't 
remember their names. I have their names over at my office if you 
would like them. So if it is necessary to freeze or if it is necessary to 
make loans tlirough the various agencies, the Treasury Department 
and O. P. A. have full legal authority, under existing law, to handle 
the entire matter. 

Mr. Curtis. And that is to citizens as well as aliens? 

Mr, Clark, I understand that is true; yes, sir. That is what they 
advised me yesterday. 

Mr. Curtis. Mr. Clark, about the same time that the telegram 
that I read, was sent to the Speaker— the date was February 28 — a 
telegram was sent by Congressman Tolan to the President in which it 
was stated: 

My understanding that evacuation order is imminent. Think it imperative 
that appointment of an alien custodian, property custodian and also coordinator 
for enemy alien problems precede or at least coincide with the announcement of 
the order. Unnecessary to indicate to you that coordinator should be experienced 
administrator, trained in handling community and family relationship problems, 
including welfare, health, resettlement. Coordinator's job will include reemploy- 
ment and agricultural problems. Urge also that coordinator's office start at once 
making plans for creating boards similar to present enemy alien hearing boards 
or comparable local machinery for examining loyalty of Italian and German 
aliens and certification of status. Coordinator should keep local officials informed 
of developments and consult them as far as possible. 



11778 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

On Tuesday, March 3, General DeWitt announced your appoint- 
ment as his coordinator. We would be glad to have you describe 
the steps you have taken since your last testimony to this committee 
with especial emphasis on the discussion you have had with the 
agencies which you indicated at the outset of your testimony. 

ACTION TAKEN BY COORDINATOR 

Mr. Clark. We have had a series of meetings which culminated 
yesterday in a meeting of some twenty-odd agencies, as I said a few 
moments ago. Before that time, we took up with each agency the 
part that it might play in the picture so that we might make a study 
of it before we called them together. 

Yesterday we called them all together. • They have been desig- 
nated by Washington as the representative of each agency and we had 
a meeting at the Clift Hotel in San Francisco all morning. In that 
meeting I selected a group of about eight who recessed over to the 
Social Security office and we met there imtil late in the night to get 
the delegations, the assignments as to who would handle what. We 
have that worked out now as to which agency and which group of . 
agencies -s^dll handle each step and what man will be in charge of each 
step of the program insofar as the evacuation program is concerned. 

Then, after they get into resettlement problems, I think an 
agency should be created by the Congress or Executive order to handle 
it over a long pull, to run it, operate it, and see that the people in it 
are properly protected, properly housed, properly clothed, and 
properly educated. 

The program that we have, of course, is just an emergency one. It 
is not over a long pull at all. Does that answer your question, sir? 

Mr. Curtis. Yes, sir. 

RESPONSIBILITY FOR SITE SELECTION 

Mr. Arnold. Later on, Mr. Clark, we will want to discuss with you 
the question of handling evacuation of Italian and German aliens. 
At this point we would like to pursue the question of the Japanese. 
With the proclamation of General DeWitt designating the areas to 
be evacuated and the persons to be evacuated, it is our impression 
that the problem has been reduced to that of finding sites of relocation 
and the mechanics of actual evacuation. The erection of sites is, 
of course, in the hands of the military. What has been your responsi- 
bility in the site selection? 

Mr. Clark. Well, I haven't gone on any of the trips. The Army 
engineers have gone on the trips and made recommendations to 
General DeWitt, and I have sat in the meetings with General DeWitt 
and gotten their memorandums on each of the sites. I don't think 
that I could lend anything nor should I waste any time in going to the 
various sites. It is more or less a problem of engineering and a 
problem of military necessity. Mr. Neustadt went, at my suggestion, 
on several trips in connection therewith. He is the Social Security 
Board's representative. 

Mr. Arnold. Does or will the coordinating committee from the 
various Federal agencies sit in on the decision? 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11779 

Mr. Clark. You mean this staff? 

Mr. Curtis. This staff — will they sit in on the decisions and have a 
part in those decisions? 

Mr. Clark. We decided that yesterday; yes, sir. Of course, the 
decision is up to General DeWitt. He is the boss man. All we do is 
try to help him. 

Mr. Arnold. You try to cooperate and help him? 

Mr. Clark. Yes. So we make suggestions. For example, Mr. 
Neustadt would make a suggestion as to whether he thought a certain 
location would be adaptable to a certain type of vocational training, 
agricultural training. We will say, ''We think that this place would 
be better." That is the kind of discussions we had. 

Mr. Arnold. Health is considered? 

Mr. Clark. Oh, yes; the Health Department. I overlooked them. 
They are a very important department. They were present. 

RECEPTION CENTERS 

Mr. Arnold. The newspapers yesterday reported that you were 
planning to establish processing stations for the evacuation. I will 
read you the newspaper article, and then I would like you to relate 
to the committee what is contemplated, if you are at liberty to, and 
enlarge on it. You say: 

These centers will be used as mobilization points for evacuees while their back- 
grounds and capabilities are determined. The result of these examinations will 
determine where each individual will be sent permanently and what his or her job 
there will be. 

Going on, it says that you said: 

It is intended to make the aliens and other evacuees as self-supporting as 
possible in their final locations for the duration of the war. A certain proportion, 
however, may remain at the processing stations for the duration. 

Is that the right quotation, and would you be able to enlarge 
upon it? 

Mr. Clark. Well, I wouldn't say that I said exactly those words. 
We used the words "reception center" rather than "processing sta- 
tion." The term processing is an Army word. All it means is that 
you take down information — it is rather like the procedure in getting a 
passport, where they take down a little history, or when you go to a 
hospital and they take down a little histoiy of your past and what 
you have been engaged in, what type of work, and one thing and 
another, just in an effort to tiy to get something that would meet 
your requirements — and that is what those reception centers are. In 
other words, you have to have some reservoir, some reception center, 
where these people might be first located, where they will know where 
they can go. There you would have the various employment oppor- 
tunities listed, have these agencies' representatives there. 

If you had, say, a community of certain nationals, you could pick out 
a certain number of doctors and a certain number of storekeepers and 
a certain number of other types so you could build up a complete 
community. That is the purpose of it. 

Mr. Arnold. Of course, families wouldn't be separated. 



11 780 LOs AXGELES AXD S-\X FRANCISCO HE.\RrN*GS 

FAMILy-rXIT BUrLDIXGS COXTEMPLATED 

Mr. Claek. Oh, no. no, no. These buildings that they are going 
to start building Monday are going to be family-unit buildings. 

Mr. Arnold. Do you me^n those are buildings in the reception 
centers? 

;Mr. Clabk. Yes. 

Mr. Arxold. Those wouldn't be dormitories, dormitory types, but 
family units? 

Mr. Claek. They are divided so that they are for family units, sort 
of apartment type. I don't mean by that that they are going to start 
putting up the boards Monday. I mean that they are going to try to 
start selecting the actual site that they are going to be located on 
within the are^ that has already been decided upon, and the materials 
will be gathered and transported there. 

Mr. Aexold. The committee had some off-the-record conversations 
with responsible individuals who know Japanese communities. We 
have heard the suggestion made that whole neighborhoods should be 
moved as a unit to maintain efl&ciency and morale and make use of the 
variety of skills and talents present there. It was also suggested that 
where there are ministers, ministering to certain groups, they uni- 
versally have expressed the desire to this committee that they be 
permitted to go on and continue that ministry. What is vour view on 
that? 

Mr. Claek. I think where we can do that, why Mr. Xeustadt will 
be certain to do that. He has talked to me about some communities 
already. He told me that there were some 5,000 or 6.000 that had 
signified a willingness to go to one particular community. He was 
making an effort to get a certain number of ministers and a certain 
group of doctors and btiild a complete unit. 

Mr. Arxold. Well, there is a community here in Los Angeles. 
They say they have 15.000 or 20,000. Of course, they would all be 
city Japanese. You couldn't establish a community without some 
agriculturalists, could you? 

Mr. Clark. We estimate around 25 percent are engaged in agri- 
culture. Of course, here in Los Angeles there is quite a number 
engaged in agriculture in the outskirts. 

yir. Arnold. But this group was principally a Japanese group from 
Los Angeles. 

A Voice. Mr. Chairman, I feel that I ought to rise and correct that. 
I think the evidence is that they have reached far beyond Los Angeles 
into other religious groups, that the 20.000 includes people from Los 
Angeles, 15 miles or 20 miles away, family after family. 

Mr. Arnold. Farmer? 

A YoicE. Xo; not farmeis by any manner of means: all types of 
people. 

Mr. Clark. Farmere, doctors, and so forth. 

Mr. Arnold. The gentleman who has just spoken was one of the 
ministers that just api>eared on the stand. 

Mr. Clark. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arnold. Can this be squared with the operations of the process- 
ing centers? 



NATIOX-\L DEFENSE :!vnGRATIOX 11781 

CONSULTATIOX WITH JAPA]S"ESE LEADERS 

Mr. Claek. Oh, yes. They might not have to go through them 
at aU. We are going to estabhsh an office right here in Los Angeles 
to meet \rith these Japanese leaders. I have been urging them to 
get their leaders together and have a committee that coiHd meet with 
us and I am sure they are doing that. They should be. Next week 
we will have an office right here where we can work out problems of 
community transplanting. 

Mr. Arnold. In some cases the Caucasian ministers wiU probably 
speak for their group. They seem to be the leaders. 

Mr. Clark. Tes, sir. We will be happy to — in fact, we urge their 
cooperation because it is most helpful. 

Mr. Arnold. In other words, you want all the help you can get. 

Mr. Clark. WeU. sir. I will say thai no one understands the enor- 
mity of the task. It is like the ^lexican jumping bean. The minute 
you think you have got her. why she jumps over here. I have had 
some pretty tough jobs myself, from top sergeant on up, but I haven't 
had any like this. 

aitze-war use 

Mr. Arnold. Here is another quotation in the case of the Japanese. 
You are quoted as saying: 

At the end of the war. the evacuees will be retirmed to their homes and farms 
and the once-forbidden zones and the resettlement communities will be trans- 
formed into recreation and rehabilitation centers for war veterans. 

Is that a correct statement? 

Mr. Clark. Of course, if they wish, they can go anywhere they 
want after the war. They are .American citizens. I did say that it 
was Government property that was being used there, that we planned 
on using it — or, rather, the Army did — I won't be in the picture then, 
I hope — for vocational centers and recreational centers for our soldiers 
who have been in the war. As you remember, in the last war we had 
to bmld a great number of vocational centers. These buildings are 
portable and would be very much adaptable to that use. 

CATEGORIES EXEMPTED FROM EVACrATION 

Mr. Curtis. In reference to the question of ItaUans and Germans, 
you will recall the committee's proposal to the President that the 
Coordinator's office start immediately planning for the creation of 
hearing boards. We notice that General DeWitt. in his order, has 
exempted certain cat^ories. Will you give the committee the de- 
scription of these categories and tell us whether it is contemplated 
that additional categories be created? Is it your opinion that appeal 
boards would make it possible to return a great majority of these 
people to civil life? 

Mr. Clark. WeU, sir. as I said before. General DeWitt is the 
boss man. He makes these rules. All I do is foUow the rules. I 
couldn't say whether he is going to add any more or not. I could 
just guess. Your guess would possibly be as good as mine. I am 
just guessing. When the general makes up his mind, he doesn't 
change it. I would say that there won't be any more. However, 



11782 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

there may be. The rules now in a broad way are that all people 
over 70 among the Italians and the Germans are exempted. 

Mr. Curtis. And certain parents of soldiers? 

Mr. Clark. And the parents of soldiers, or sisters, brothers, 
wives, children of soldiers of German and Italian descent are exempted. 

Mr. Curtis. Has any statement yet been made as to the conditions 
under which Italian and German aliens will be allowed to reside 
outside of zone 1-A? 

Mr. Clark, It will be. 

Mr. Curtis. Will they be free to establish individual residences at 
will away from designated military prohibited zones? 

Mr. Clark. If it is outside of 1-A, yes, sir. Of course, there are 
exceptions to all these answers. It would depend on the circum- 
stances. If they were of a subversive character, why, of course, it 
would be better if they were incarcerated or restrained. That would 
not apply to my answer. My answer is, where a person is loyal and 
he just happens to be of Italian or German lineage, outside of 1-A 
under the present regulations, he would be able to hve in a community 
of his own choosing. 

Mr. Curtis. And of course all of these things are subject to the 
effect of great and unexpected happenings that none of us can foretell? 

Mr. Clark. Oh, yes, all depending on the action of these folks. 
If they behave themselves and live right and do right and stand up 
right by the United States, they are not going to be harmed. 

Mr. Curtis. Now, referring to these people you just mentioned. 
Will they be free of curfew restrictions and other limitations outside 
of designated restricted areas? 

Air. Clark. No, sir. There is not a curfew regulation now by 
the Army, It hasn't been promulgated. The one by the Attorney 
General only applies to aliens. 

Mr, Bender, Don't you think it would be desirable if you, yourself, 
and members of this committee, were subject to curfew regulations? 

Mr, Clark, I think it would be swell, Congressman, I would be 
the one to shout for that first. I got to bed last night about 3 o'clock 
and 10 minutes after 4 the night before, 

work projects 

Mr. Curtis. What types of work, other than agricultural opera- 
tions, are bemg planned or considered, and what agencies are bemg 
charged with the planning of these projects? 

Mr. Clark. Well, sir, there are several that have been suggested 
and to which I think the Japanese would be adaptable. It has been 
suggested that they be engaged in makmg a number of these articles 
that we used to buy over in the 5 and 10. That is the store where I 
trade. You could always go in there and buy sometliing and on the 
back of it used to be "Alade in Japan." So we could make it "Made 
in America," with Japan on the back. Or we could put them to mak- 
ing American flags— that would be nice, and I think a very laudable 
undertaking, also. Then Mr, Nicholson has several suggestions wliich 
I thought were good, of a reclamation character, particularly those 
who are adaptable to labor. They could be engaged in various re- 
clamation, irrigation projects. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11783 

Mr. Curtis. I don't laiow whether you are familiar with it or not, 
but many of the buildings that were erected for Civilian Conservation 
Corps camps are located in areas where they need work done. 

Mr. Clark. Yes, sir. 

OTHER PROJECTS 

Mr. Curtis. In soil conservation, irrigation, flood control, and that 
sort of thing. And should it develop that Japanese boys are dis- 
charged from the Army, it is entirely possible that they could recruit 
C. C. C. camp members from these boys and carry on that work 
that was stopped because of the shortage of boys. 

Mr. Clark. That is a very fine suggestion, sir, and I think the 
location of the C. C. C. camps would make them adaptable to that 
very type of work. 

Mr. Curtis. I think you will find a welcome for that in the Great 
Plains States, the drought areas, where they were carrying on those 
projects and had to stop, or some of them didn't get started. 

Mr. Clark. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Curtis. Can you tell the committee what sums are available 
to date to do the necessary work in connection with evacuation and 
resettlement? 

Mr. Clark. The Army has unlimited funds available at this time 
from their unallocated funds. Those are the funds we are using. 
And. the Social Security Board has some funds. I don't laiow the 
exact amount. 

Mr. Curtis. I think that is a rather limited amount but the plan 
is, under the delegation of authority, for all of those to channel 
through the Army. 

INlr. Clark. Yes, sir. Until they get into the definite, completed 
resettlement where they have reached their final destination, until 
the war is oyer; then, of course, the Army wouldn't want to pay 
that and I think it is up to Congress to take care of that. Of course, 
the Army is going to have to ask the Congress for an appropriation 
to supplement what they have now. This is no game of marbles. 

Mr. Curtis. We are fully aware of that, Mr. Clark, and we are 
aware that this is just one of the burdens that is placed upon the 
shoulders of General De Witt. This committee wants to be just as 
helpful as we can. In that connection I mentioned some of the testi- 
mony that has been taken here. On many phases of it we have had 
some concrete suggestions that seemed very, very frank. After our 
hearings are over, if some member of our staff could get what is wanted 
when it is wanted in a hurry, without having somebody wade all 
through these hearings, I think they should render a service. 

Mr. Clark. I wonder if you could let one of your staff stay here for 
the next 2 weeks. 

Mr. Curtis. I think that could be arranged. I am not the chair- 
man. 

Dr. Lamb. Would you want them here, or in San Francisco? 

Mr. Clark. San Francisco. 

Dr. Lamb. That would be easy to arrange. 

Mr. Clark. That would be fine. The problem is going to crystal- 
lize in the next few days and if we could have someone who has heard 



11784 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

the testimony or is familiar with the record, I think your committee 
could be of great help to us. I know that the General feels thatyou 
have been of great assistance to him in pointing out some of the pit- 
falls. You have saved us lots and lots of headaches. We have got 
enough already so on behalf of General De Witt and for myself I want 
to thank you very much for the work you have done. 

Mr. Arnold. We won't keep you much longer, Mr. Clark. We 
have just about finished here. The committee has been concerned 
with the problems of the Italians and Germans because we are re- 
luctant to see policies created here wliich may stand as precedents for 
subsequent action in other parts of the country where the size and 
scope of the problem are of such enormous magnitude as to jeopardize 
the very war effort. I have reference to the fact that where there are 
85,000 in tliis coastal area there are approximately 1,000,000 German 
and Italian aliens, including 300,000 Germans and 600,000 Italians, 
according to the 1940 census. This number will, of course, be multi- 
plied by dependents and immediate relatives who are citizens. This 
group, in turn, will be found to be related by ties of blood and marriage 
to a far greater number so that it is unthinkable that we should treat 
this matter lightly. 

Bearing these matters in mind, what special suggestions have you 
for the certification as to the loyalty of these individuals and handling 
of the situation? 

Mr. Clark. Well, sir, there have been no orders entered as to 
Italians and Germans, or Japanese insofar as evacuation is conceAied. 
The small area along the coast, known as the 1-A area, has tentatively 
been the General's plan insofar as the Germans and Italians are con- 
cerned. Our statistics show that there are approximately 86,000 in- 
volved there. After you subtract those that the General has already 
excepted, together with those who are sick and in hospitals and have 
various other exceptions, the number won't be so large, 

HEARING BOARD TO BE SET UP 

Then, again, the General is going to set up a hearing board. I did 
not answer your question a moment ago about that hearing board. 
The General is going to set up on his staff a group that would take up 
these matters, and where it involves a situation that needs some special 
attention, this military board, we believe, would be the most effective 
one. That is his intention now, I believe. It is a military problem 
and we think that the establishment of civil hearing boards would 
possibly not be as effective nor be as quick as would be a military 
board. It has not been decided, though. 

Mr. Curtis. Are you familiar with the English experience on that? 

Mr. Clark. No. 

Mr. Curtis. We had a witness here today who outlined it. I 
won't take the time to enumerate it but it is in the record and if the 
arrangement is carried out for our staff to have someone there, why 
they can provide it. 

Mr. Clark. Perhaps we could use that system. We want to take 
as much off the military as we can. 

Mr. Curtis. I don't know that you can use it entirely but there 
may be some phases of it that you want. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11785 

Mr. Clark. The General hasn't decided the problem, of course, 
because it hasn't arisen yet; what I am telling you are my own thoughts 
on the matter. 

Mr. Bender. I have just two or three questions. 

Wliat is being done, Mr. Clark, to break down antagonism of local 
groups to the general program? 

Mr. Clark. Well, we have been doing a little campaigning. We 
haven't passed out any cards but we have been over talking to them 
and we have made some progress, sir. 

Mr. Bender. Mr. Clark, how much money do you think will be 
required for this undertaking? 

Mr. Clark. I couldn't say, sir. 

Mr. Bender. Have you had any estimates as yet? 

Mr. Clark. Well, our fiscal office has but I would prefer not to 
state it, sir. 

Mr. Bender. In my nightly conversations with various agencies 
at Washington in connection with this committee's activity, that is 
a question that has been asked and it is a question that should be 
thought of quite seriously by all of us immediately. 

Mr. Clark. Yes, sir; I think the committee is entitled to that and 
I would be happy to furnish it to your representative. 

Mr. Bender. As you understand, of course, there isn't a day that 
passes but what there aren't at least half a dozen speeches made on 
the floor of Congress regarding this issue and the problems involved. 

Mr. Clark. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Bender. All of us are trying to bend backwards not to act as a 
headline-hunting committee, but rather as a fact-finding committee, 
and, in turn, translating that to the various departments in Washing- 
ton so that they, in turn, as well as Congress, might act intelligently. 
We found a very fine response on the part of General DeWitt and your- 
self regarding those things that were necessary to do without any 
blowing of trumpets, and I am sure we will proceed in that manner 
from henceforth on. 

Mr. Clark. Well, I think you have done a splendid work, as I have 
said before, and I think that your records and the use of whoever you 
assign, will be most helpful to the general, I trust that you will be 
able to find it possible to have that man where he will be available 
at the beginning of the week, or as soon as you release him from his 
duties with you. 

Mr. Bender. The committee expects to be back in San Francisco 
on Monday and no doubt will meet with you. 

Mr. Clark. Very well, sir. I will be there. 

Mr. Curtis. Thank you, very much, Mr, Clark. I appreciate 
your coming. 

Mr, Lacey. Before Mr. Clark leaves, I would like to have one 
question directed to him if the committee see fit, 

Mr. Bender. Who are you? 

Mr. Lacey. I am an attorney here and I am representing certain 
Japanese. My name is Lacey. 

Mr. Curtis. What does it have reference to? 

Mr. Bender. You will have to ask us privately as to the question 
you would like to ask, and then we will, in turn,'^ put the question if 
we tliink it is desirable. 



11786 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Clark. If you will come by the office, I will answer it, partner. 

Mr. Curtis. We promised Mr, Clark he could get out 7 minutes ago. 

Mr. Bender. What is your question, now that Mr. Clark is gone? 
We will put it to him. 

Mr. Lacey. Assuming that there are alien Japanese who are now 
in this country who are willing to go to Japan, would it be possible 
for Mr. Clark and the department that he represents to take measures 
of some kind to see if they could not be returned to Japan and in that 
exchange, or in that repatriation of Japanese, to obtain the redelivery 
of the prisoners which Japan now has of our boys who are there 
interned? 

Mr. Bender. Would you care to take the stand? You wrote us a 
letter which I believe I have in my hand, regarding this particular 
problem. Your name is Courtney Lacey. Is that correct? 

Mr. Lacey. That is correct; yes, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF COURTNEY LACEY, JAMES OVIATT BUILDING, 
617 SOUTH OLIVE STREET, LOS ANGELES, CALIF. 

Mr. Bender. You say: 

During the past few days I have had conversations with several Japanese na- 
tionals residing in southern California. Today one of them, an influential 
businessman in Los Angeles, stated to me that he and some of his friends had 
been discussing the evacuation problem, and, according to them, it would seem — 

"That the Japanese Government is willing to accept the return to Japan of those 
Japanese nationals now residing in the United States who wish to return to Japan." 

Do they have some private wire to Japan? 

Mr. Lacey. Well, I don't know whether they have or not and if 
they did have, knowing the Japanese as well as I do, they would be 
very hesitant about disclosing any communications they might have 
because of the fact that some of them have been pushed around since 
the trouble has commenced. 

Mr. Bender. This is a theory that you advance; is that it? 

Mr. Lacey. It is not a theory that I advance; it is a theory or a 
plan which Japanese nationals have been talking over amongst 
themselves. 

Mr. Curtis. They want to go back? 

Mr. Lacey. Yes; that is correct. 

Mr. Curtis. And some of them that claim American citizenship, do 
they prefer to go back to Japan, too? 

Mr. Lacey. I am not speaking of those who claim American citizen- 
ship; I am only speaking of those who are Japanese nationals. 

Mr. Curtis. They haven't been allowed to come in here for many 
years. 

Mr. Lacey. If the members of the committee are not familiar with 
the situation, these Japanese that came oyer before they were restric- 
ted, came over with the expectation of being able to make a fund and 
send it to Japan and they have been periodically sending it to Japan 
and it has accumulated there in many instances. And they have had 
the expectation that in their old age they would go back to Japan and 
enjoy an independence there; and those people who have had that idea 
in mind throughout the past years are still willing to go to Japan and, 
as I understand, the Japanese Government is willing to take them 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11787 

back. And as a part of that plan, the Japanese Government probably 
would release the American soldiers and sailors and civilians. 

iVlr. Bender. I believe all that you offer is a matter of conjecture. 
If what you say is true I am sure that our officials in Washington 
would have knowledge of it. Is there anything further? 

Mr. Arnold. In my opinion, that is a matter for the State Depart- 
ment to work out. 

Mr. Curtis. It will do no harm to have it in the record and the 
proper authorities will see it there. 

Mr. Lacey. I thought the committee was here for the purpose of 
effecting an evacuation of aliens who were inimical to this country. 

Mr. Bender. Would you be willing to furnish us a list of the 
persons that you discussed this with, so that we might communicate 
with them in writing? 

Mr. Lacey. I asked them specifically, if I could use their names 
and they didn't want me to use their names because of the fact that 
they thought they might suffer from the fact that they would be 
questioned why they knew of this willingness of the Japanese Govern- 
ment to take them back again. You can understand the reason why 
they would hesitate. 

Mr. Bender. That is all, Mr. Lacey. 

Reverend Suzuki, you may resume your testimony now. 

TESTIMONY OF LESTER SUZUKI— Resumed 

Mr. Bender. Will you proceed with your statement. Reverend 
Suzuki? 

Reverend Suzuki. Well, in the last paragi-aph I made a plea that 
in yoiu" plan of evacuation we would recommend that you would allow 
a portion of the Japanese, and a larger portion of the Japanese- Ameri- 
cans to remain here and be of greater service and greater usefulness 
for American defense and offense. 

They want to make a sacrifice. I think they would make a better 
sacrifice here. 

Mr. Arnold. You know now, from what you have heard, that 
that is not possible? 

Reverend Suzuki. Well, Dr. Farnham and Dr. Heckleman said 
that they favored a plan that would be selective, if possible. 

Mr. Arnold. I believe, from what Mr. Clark said about the estab- 
lishment of an office here and there, that they will desire to confer 
with you and others, as leaders of various groups. I believe you know 
that they are gomg to seek every measure of cooperation and advice 
that you can give them. 

Reverend Suzuki. Yes. We will be very happy to do that and 
wherever we go we are willing to Americanize and Christianize all of 
our people. That is our job and we want to do it. 

Mr. Bender. Do you have any comment to make regarding this 
matter of a large number of Japanese in the United States now wanting 
to go back to Japan? 

Reverend Suzuki. Well, I think this group must be a very small 
minority because most of them have given up the hope of going back 
years ago because their families were raised here. They have grown 
up and they have given up the idea of going back. I suppose they 
got disillusioned because of the war and because of these problems 



11788 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

coming up, but I don't think it is enough, you might say, in common 
terms, to monkey with because the great majority of our people are 
not looking to that at all. We just don't harbor that desTe at all. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much. 

Reverend Suzuki. In passing, I have a resolution from om- church 
federation which I think you would be happy to know and read and 
pass on to your committee. 

Mr. Arnold. Let us make that an exhibit in the record. Are all 
of those the same? 

Reverend Suzuki. Yes; they are all the same. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much for coming. 

Mr. Bender. After Mr. McWilliams appears we will have the 
American Civil Liberties Union. 

TESTIMONY OF CAREY McWILLIAMS, CHIEF OF THE DIVISION OF 
IMMIGRATION AND HOUSING, CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF 
INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS, STATE BUILDING, LOS ANGELES, 
CALIF. 

Mr. Bender. Will you give your full name to the reporter? 

Mr. McWilliams. My name is Carey McWilliams. I am chief 
of the division of immigration and housing, which is a part of the 
Department of Industrial Relations of the State of Cahfornia. The 
division which I head of the State government is one which has been 
in existence since 1913 and is charged, by a statute in this State, with 
direct responsibility for the providing of certain guidance and infor- 
mation to ah en immigrants in this State; and also the general re- 
sponsibility for their welfare. 

I appointed a committee some time ago for the purpose of working 
on details of a plan which might be submitted to this committee. 
I filed a copy of the plan with Dr. Lamb for the benefit of the com- 
mittee. 

Mr. Arnold. The plan will be incorporated in the record at this 
point. 

(The proposed plan referred to above is as follows:) 

STATEMENT OF CAREY McWILLIAMS, CHIEF, DIVISION OF IMMI- 
GRATION AND HOUSING, CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF IN- 
DUSTRIAL RELATIONS, LOS ANGELES, CALIF. 

I. Inteodtjction 

The Committee Investigating National Defense Migration, by reason of its 
wide experience in dealing with the problems of migration, resettlement, welfare 
programs and economic opportunities, is uniquely qualified to undertake its 
current investigation of the alien problem on the Pacific coast. In undertaking 
this, the most recent of its notable investigations, the committee has an un- 
paralled opportunity to render an important service to the Nation, not only 
in furtherance of its security in time of peril, but also in safeguarding those essen- 
tial values which represent the finest elements of the American tradition. Those 
who have followed the rapid chain of events on the Pacific coast since December 
7th, clearly recognize that the formulation of a national policy on the problem of 
the alien is of immediate and primary importance. The formulation of such a 
national policy is essentially a function of the Congress. This is particularly true 
in view of the fact that the problem by its nature and because of the changing 
character and aspects of the war, will be continuing in character, and therefore 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11789 

cannot be approached as a temporary or transitory problem. It was largely for 
this reason that on January 2G, 1942 I wrote to your committee explaining some 
aspects of the problem and urged that you undertake the present investigation. 
It was with genuine appreciation that I learned that the committee had decided 
to undertake the investigation. 

In an effort to be of service to the committee I requested a small group of Lo& 
Angeles citizens to work with me in formulating a proposal to be submitted at 
the hearings. Included among these individuals are two outstanding lawyers 
of the community who have had wide experience in dealing with alien and 
refugee problems, and a distinguished social worker in the community who has 
also had extensive experience in dealing with the same problems. As a result of 
their deliberations I forwarded to the chief investigator for your committee, 
under date of February 20, 1942, a generalized statement of the proposal which 
is here presented in some detail. A copy of this telegram is included in the ap- 
pendix. Copies were sent to the Honorable Francis Biddle, Attorney General, 
and to Senator Sheridan Downey. Thereafter I received from Senator Downey, 
under date of February 21, 1942, a wire as follows: 

"Glad to urge upon Biddle fullest consideration your very comprehensive 
plan alien control." 

The proposal emanating from this group was discussed in outline with numerous 
organizations, groups, and individuals directly concerned, and received universal 
commendation. In presenting the proposal, therefore, I would like to stress 
that it is not my personal proposal, but is the result of wide consultation and 
discussion with interested groups and competent impartial advisers. It does, 
however, meet with my entire approval. 

One of the conspicuous merits of the proposal, in my judgment, is that while 
it was designed to meet a specific need on the Pacific coast, it nevertheless can 
be applied in other areas. Also, it contemplates a decentralized regional con- 
trol under the general supervision of responsible Federal officials. The nature 
of the problem is such that a strictly centralized approach would not only place 
too heavy a burden upon Federal officials in Washington, but would also over- 
look the fact that a considerable measure of responsibility for the problem prop- 
erly rests in the regions immediately affected. For there are special localized 
phases of this problem in every region which cannot well be ignored. The 
proposal here submitted combines the advantages of a carefully formulated 
national policy with flexibility of regional administration. It is my carefully 
considered opinion that it should receive your most serious consideration, and 
if possible, should be put into effect immediately. 

On the score of great need for urgency, I most strongly recommend that your 
committee use its good offices to the end that this proposal be put into effect 
immediately by Executive decree. Legislative sanction should, of course, 
later be given the program. Subsequent legislative action can unquestionably 
clarify the national policy involved, but in such critical times and in view of the 
urgency of the problem itself, the desirability of immediate action by Executive 
decree is clearly indicated. By recognizing and acting upon this fact your 
committee would place the entire country in its everlasting debt. 

II. Statement of the Problem 

The problem may be said to consist of the following elements: 

1. Reestablishment of public confidence. — This can be accomplished by a bold, 
decisive, and courageous act which will indicate an all-embracing comprehension 
of the problem and a readiness on the part of the military and civil authorities 
to deal with it in all its phases, within the law, and without further delay. This 
should be done in a manner which will safeguard all essential values and interests. 
It should at the same time provide the maximum security for the area and the 
greatest degree of coordination, effective administration, and speed possible under 
the circumstances. While some of this has been achieved by General DeWitt[s 
proclamation, much necessarily remains to be done, and it is important that it 
be done at once. 

2. Prevention of unnecessary confusion and economic dislocation. — The removal 
or shifting of scores of thousands of people from areas in which they have become 
well established and toward which they have been making important economic, 
social, and cultural contributions can easily play havoc with the lives and fortunes 
of the entire population in those areas. Unless carefully planned and even more 
carefully executed, mass evacuations will cause endless confusion, untold hard- 
ships, vast economic losses, serious and perhaps even irreparable injury to essential 

60396— 42— pt. 31 12 



11790 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

agricultural and productive enterprises, and serious interference with transporta- 
tion facilities. All this can affect our war effort in this area disastrously. It may 
affect just as seriously the areas to which the people will be moved. The facts 
and figures are in the possession of your committee and need not be included here. 

3. Avoidance of danger of false sense of security by removing aliens ivho may or 
may not be dangerous and leaving more dangerous enemies undisturbed. — Experience 
in the various democracies throughout the world proved over and over again 
that spies, saboteurs, fifth columnists are not limited to aliens; that they are 
frequently found among native and naturalized citizens. Exclusive concentra- 
tion upon and evacuation of aliens, many of whom have suffered infinitely more 
than we have from the enemy and have more direct and immediate reason to hate 
him than we have, may therefore be an unjust, unwise, and short-sighted policy. 
To treat all affected aliens alike may be equally unwise and in some instances as 
in the case of the political and religious refugees made stateless by Nazi decrees 
since 1933, inhuman. A comprehensive program should be based on the lessons 
to be learned from the experience of other democratic countries and should take 
advantage of the loyalty, knowledge, and eagerness to be of service on the part of 
friendly aliens from enemy countries. 

4. Provision for resettlement, temporary maintenance, reemployment, and preven- 
tion of social maladjustments. — Wholesale evacuation such as contemplated will 
require anticipatory selection, preparation of large areas, coordination of transpor- 
tation facilities, provisions for maintaining the evacuees at least during the 
transitional period, finding or creating suitable employment and the establishment 
of social and cultural resources for the readjustment of individuals and families. 
All this will require knowledge, experience, vast sums of money and great organi- 
zational and administrative skills, if personal and familial disorganization and 
deterioration are to be avoided. Since it is likely that the experience on the Pacific 
coast will be duplicated elsewhere, the costs may be multiplied many times and 
may constitute a serious drain on our national economy at a time when all energies 
and resources should be concentrated on winning the war. The population to be 
dealt with here, for example, is far in excess of the total number of people resettled 
by the Federal Government — and the costs therefore may be iinagined. The 
wisest and most economical use of our resources is therefore essential. 

5. Conservation of alien property to facilitate the evacuees ultimate rehabilitation 
and provision for possible deferral of tax payments and contractual obligations. — A 
period like the present and an upheaval such as is bound to result provide ample 
opportunity for unscrupulous and self-seeking "carpetbaggers" to exploit the 
situation for their own selfish interests without regard to the suffering and privation 
to others. Like all scoundrels, they are ready to wrap themselves in their country's 
flag and to hide their real motives behind a display of patriotism. It was always 
thus and it will no doubt be repeated in this instance. If we are to avoid the 
scandals of the last war in connection with the office of the Alien Property Cus- 
todian, the mistakes of the past must be avoided and the lessons of the last war 
must be applied to the present situation. In all fairness, and from a practical 
standpoint, provision also will have to be made for possible deferral of taxes and 
contractual obligations. 

III. Outline of the Program 

(a) Creation of Pacific coast alien control authority by Executive decree of the 
President, consisting of representatives of the Departments of War, Navy, Treasury, 
Justice, Agriculture, Labor, and such agencies as the Social Security Board, Chil- 
dren's Bureau, United States Public Health Service. — The practice of setting up 
special "authority" to handle special problems is now so well accepted, and has 
so manv precedents, that its use in this instance cannot be questioned. 

(6) Designation of restricted zones and areas. — The military authorities should 
designate two major zones on the west coast — primary military zones in which 
no one who is not essential to such zones from a mihtary standpoint should be 
permitted to remain; the areas surrounding these zones on the Pacific coast strip 
to be designated secondary areas — areas in which persons could remain only after 
being hcensed to live and work in those areas, such licensing to be subject to 
the supervision and control of the Alien Control Authority. Both zones and 
areas subject to modification by the military from time to time. 

(c) Bureaus of Pacific coast alien control authority — 1. Bureau for registration 
and licensing. — Although many people doubt whether there are any loyal Jap- 
anese, a doubt to which I do not subscribe, I am confident that large numbers 
of citizens of Japanese descent are loyal to the United States, despite the fact 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11791 

that it might be difficult and perhaps even impossible to differentiate between 
the loyal and the disloval. I believe that they, and certainly the citizens among 
them, are entitled to full protection until such time as there appears a reason- 
able doubt about their individual loyalty. Indiscriminate evacuation may seri- 
ously and needlessly affect our food supply, from which our civil and military 
population will suffer without in any way affecting our security. This should 
and can be avoided through an appropriate system of licensing. 

Whatever be the attitude toward the Japanese, no one doubts that the vast 
majority of aliens of Italian and German nationality are entirely loyal to the 
United States. Of these two groups, the aliens of German nationality, who were 
rendered stateless, and their property confiscated by the Nazis, are in an espe- 
cially tragic plight. Everyone knows the harrowing experiences to which these 
unfortunates have been subject in Germany, and in their migrations throughout 
P^urope, and frequently other countries, before finally landing in free and demo- 
cratic America. They were the first to suffer because of their political and reli- 
gious views from the brutality and sadism of the Nazis. Now that they have 
found a new haven and are gradually adjusting themselves to a new life, they 
are again told, and this time, paradoxically, by the very democracy for which 
many of them fought and sacrificed, that they are suspect, that they are not 
wanted, and that they must again be on the move. The effect of all this upon 
them may become intolerable, as witness the recent suicide of Stefan Zweig, one 
of the foremost literary figures of the age. 

Not only from the humane standpoint are these victims of our common enemy s 
ruthlessness entitled to special consideration. They include many of the world's 
foremost scientists, inventors, engineers, industrialists, writers, dramatists, artists, 
musicians, etc., who have made and can continue to make important contribu- 
tions to our war effort, as well as by identifying, or at least indicating those in 
our midst, especially from Germanv, who may be dangerous to our security. It 
is because of the seriousness of this problem and also because indiscriminate 
evacuation is bound to work unnecessary and useless hardship on persons who 
are in our country's service, that this problem is treated in greater detail in the 
appendix. (See appendix 2.) Here it can only be said that provisions must be 
made for treating the refugees from political and religious persecution from 
Germany, who were made stateless by Nazi decrees, as a separate group which 
should receive careful and sympathetic consideration, due care being taken to 
discover such subversive elements among them as may be present. There are 
many precedents for such treatment. The Alien Registration Division of the 
Department of Justice treated stateless aliens as a special group and created a 
special category in the recent registration of aliens. Insofar as is consistent with 
militarv necessity, they should be permitted to remain in their present habitat 
and continue to make their contribution to our social, economic, cultural, and 
intellectual progress. Their special knowledge of conditions in Germany and the 
methods of the Nazi regime should be utilized in discovering fifth columnists and 
saboteurs. In so doing we shall be profiting by the experience of England and 
shall be living up to the plea of our great President to the French authorities that 
all refugees bo not treated alike. 

What has been said with respect to German refugees applies also to large num- 
bers of Italians who fled from Italy because of Fascist oppression and persecution. 
These people too can be of use to our war effort although to a lesser degree, and 
should be fully utilized. The registration and licensing bureau provided for above 
should make such distinctions and precautions possible. 

2. The bureau for resettlement should be charged with the responsibility of lo- 
cating and preparing areas in the interior for the receipt and absorption of the 
evacuees. Consisting, as this bureau should, of representatives of the appropriate 
government agencies, it would have available to it the knowledge, information, and 
facihties of the Federal and State agencies dealing with the land, the productivity 
of the soil, living standards and conditions, and the economic factors involved m 
such large-scale resettlement. It should also have available to it the special ex- 
perience of the various Federal and State departments which have been respon- 
sible for providing relief— reclamation projects, Work Projects Administration, 
Civilian Conservation Corps, etc. 

3. Thebureau for transportation should have the responsiblity for providing the 
transportation facilities for passengers and freight to transport the evacuees to 
their new homes. Unless this problem is studied from all aspects, it is not unlikely 
that the roads may become clogged with the evacuees, and we may have a repeti- 
tion of the tragic experiences of the French, Belgians, and Dutch when they 
evacuated their cities. This experience is too recent to require detail as to the 



11792 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

possible effect of the clogging of the roads and transportation facilities on the 
military effort of the country. It is of the utmost importance that this problem 
be handled with the greatest possible skill that our transportation authorities 
can bring to it. 

4. The bureau for maintenance and reemployment should be built around the 
Social Security Administration and such governmental agencies as it may corral. 
It should be recognized from the beginning that the situation in which the evacuees 
will find themselves may be such as to undermine their morale, destroy any feeling 
of loyalty they may have toward the United States, and embitter them toward us, 
our "government, and society in general. Leaving them to their own devices 
without constructive outlets for their pent-up energies and resentments may be 
disastrous. Proper organization to utihze their time, energies, and skills and to 
provide suitable recreational facilities is essential and will save as much from this 
tragedy as is possible under the circumstances. Since there is no way of knowing 
how long the war will last, plans must be made for a more or less permanent re- 
employment of these people. This can be accomplished by utilizing them in their 
respective occupations for creating decent living conditions in the areas in which 
they will be resettled. 

5. The bureau for alien property conservation: There is ample evidence that 
social and economic vultures are already preying upon the unfortunate aliens who 
expect to be evacuated. They are told to dispose of their property and are fre- 
quently offered ridiculous sums which in panic and desperation the evacuees are 
inchned to accept. Stories are also being circulated which indicate that unless 
great care is exercised, and that immediately, we shall have a repetition here of 
what transpired in Germany and in other countries as the result of large-scale 
evacuation. People have been threatened that unless they dispose of their prop- 
erty to those who are eager for it, they will be reported to the Federal Bureau of 
Investigation and their property will be confiscated. In the absence of a state- 
ment from high government authorities to the contrary, the aliens who are at the 
mercy of rumors and rumor mongers have no choice but to accept what they are 
told at the moment. The immediate creation of an Alien Property Conservator 
or a bureau for its conservation, with an immediate announcement that transac- 
tions under duress will not be recognized and that the interests and property of 
aliens will be protected in every way, would not only give the unfortunate victims 
a sense of needed relief, but make them feel that they are living in a country where 
human dignity and human values are more than mere phrases mouthed by 
politicians. It is absolutely essential that the problem of ahen property conser- 
vation be handled as an integral part of the entire program. In other words, alien 
property conservation should constitute a function of the authority proposed, 
and should not be handled in an unrelated and uncoordinated manner. 

Also, a moment's reflection will suffice to indicate that there are literally 
hundreds of minor but important problems involved, such as the possible necessity 
for working out ways and means to defer payment of taxes and contractual obliga- 
tions. All of these problems should be centralized in the Authority because of 
their intimate connection with the problem of welfare, maintenance, property 
conservation, preservation of morale, etc. 

IV. Conclusion 

The foregoing program will, no doubt, require modification from time to time 
as the situation develops. But if put into execution promptly with scrutinizing 
attention to the selection of the personnel and the elimination of the usual inter- 
departmental difficulties and jurisdictional conflicts it would, I am confident, meet 
all the requirements set for it. It would above all demonstrate that democracy 
can work efficiently, effectively, and with that consideration for the welfare of the 
people who brought it into being, which differentiates it from autocracy and makes 
it worthy of any sacrifice. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11793 



APPmiPIX A. 
GRAPHIC OUTLIKS OF STBUCTORE AND FUNCTIONS 
of proposed 
PACIFIC COAST ALIM CONTROL AUTHORITY 



^PRESIDENT. 



lias already empowered 

MILITARY AUTHORITY 
to designate at 
least 2 main types 
of zones, subject 
to modification 'by 
military from time 



to create and empower 
by EjBcutive Order pend- 
ing Congressional action 



time; VIZ. 

PRI^iAEY 

From vrhich groups 
designated by nili- 
tary must be com- 
pletely evacuated. 



SECOHJARY 
In which aliens licen- 
sed by Alien Control 
Authority may remain 
subject to rules of 
Authority. 



f 

and dates for evacuation 

of designated groups 

whereupon} burden of evac- 
uationf licensing, resettle- 
ment, etc., falls upon-- — ^ 



PACIFIC COAST ALIEN COIITROL AUTHORITY 
(consisting of) 
CHillRMA:! AIJD 
Dept, reprs., viz. Govt, agency reps. 

1. TTar 

2. Navy 7. Soc. Security Board 

3. Treasury 8. Public Health Serv. 

4. Justice 9. Children's Bureau 

5. Agriculture 10. Any others needed 

6. Labor 



and also 
BOEEAUS RESPONSIBLE TO THE AUTHORITY, viz. 



Eegi strati or 

& 
- liconsing 


Resettleneni 



Transport 


Maintenance 

& 

1 Reemployment 


Alien Propprty 
Conservation 



4 types of licensing boards 
(as many of each type as 
need's of area nay require) 



for 
Japanese 



for 
Germans 



for 
Italians 



Stateless I 
Refugees j 



11794 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Appendix B 

February 20, 1942. 
Dr. Robert K. Lamb, 

Tolan Committee, 

San Francisco, Calif.: 
Conferred with group of social workers and lawyers last night who feel that 
time is all important element in this matter. As I indicated they propose im- 
mediate establishment by Executive decree President of Alien Control Authority 
to be composed representatives War, Navy, Justice, Agriculture, Labor, Social 
Security, and some transport agency. Function military authorities to delimit 
two major areas on west coast, viz, primary military areas in which no licensing 
any kind would be permitted and secondary military areas in which licensing 
would be permitted subject to control of the authority both areas to be subject 
to modification by military from time to time. Function of the authority itself 
to be made up of four bureaus, viz, registration and licensing, resettlement, mainte- 
nance and reemployment, and alien property conservation. Under registration 
and licensing three separate licensing boards to be set up re Japanese, German, and 
Italian nationals. Our feeling is that this proposal should be submitted to General 
DeWitt through Tolan for approval in principle. Such authority would be flexible 
and would relieve all officials of unnecessary, responsibility and would coordinate 
entire program. Feel that this proposal should be transmitted to top officials in 
Washington immediately, in particular Biddle, Wallace, McNutt, Downey, and 
others, with request it be laid before President before any summary action is taken. 
Your committee can develop factual background and specific prop sals re policy 
and practice before board once it is constituted by Presidential decree. If such 
action could be taken immediately would provide committee with time to under- 
take thorough hearings and investigation and would also in meantime keep 
situation in hand. 

Caret McWilliams, 
Chief, Division of Immigration and Housing. 



Appendix C. — The Problem of the Stateless Refugee 

The plight of the stateless refugee from Nazi Germany represents one of the 
most tragic human dramas of the age. They have been persecuted, expelled, 
their property expropriated, and they have expatriated from the country of their 
birth. They owe no allegiance to their former country because they were neither 
citizens nor subjects of Germany at the time that war was declared. Nevertheless, 
they are classified as enemy aliens. If any group merits special consideration it is 
this group. 

The real enemy aliens may have the loyalty to their country to sustain them, 
and they know why and for whom they have to bear the hardships. The refugees 
are loyal to the United States. They hope to become as good citizens of the United 
States as the refugees of previous generations. Having suffered so much mate- 
rially and spiritually under the Nazis, they cannot reconcile themselves to the 
fact that they are identified with their deadly enemies, the Nazis. It seems like 
adding insult to injury. It is especially hard for the younger generation who grew 
up in the American spirit and who are gradually forgetting the terrible experiences 
of their past. 

The desperate situation confronting some of these refugees may be gleaned in 
part at least from documents 1 and 2 attached to this appendix. The first is 
from a native American who is about to enter the military service of the United 
States, whose wife is a refugee from Germany and therefore one of the stateless 
refugees facing with them the prospect of evacuation while her husband is fighting 
in the armed forces of the United States. The second document is from one of the 
most prominent local attorneys to whom they turned in their despair. 

The urgent need for reclassification either by separating the refugees frorn the 
enemy alien group or by licensing the stateless refugees or by clearing thein indi- 
vidually from the stigma of being enemy aliens becomes apparent also when the 
moral and spiritual strain on the refugees is taken into consideration. Special 
consideration is essential. Fortunately, there is ample precedent for such con- 
sideration. 

The Attorney General has already exempted the following groups from being 
classified as enemy aliens: 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11795 

1. Registered Austrians are not considered enemy aliens despite the possibility 
that there are many potentially dangerous persons among them as in any other 
group. 

2. Persons of German, Italian, or Japanese citizenship who have acquired any 
other citizenship (i. e., from Lichtenstein which could be bought easily and 
cheaply, or Haiti or some small South American country) are also exempted despite 
the possibility that there are as many potentially dangerous persons among them 
as in any other group. 

3. Citizens from Danzig are also exempted "pending the final decision whether 
they are enemy aliens or not." 

There are other exemptions of less importance such as enemy aliens serving in 
the ranks of the United States forces, Koreans, immigrants from certain Mediter- 
ranean islands, etc. 

It may be hoped, therefore, that sooner or later the Attorney General will see 
his way clear to making sin^ilar exceptions for the stateless anti-Nazi refugees 
who applied for naturalization upon their arrival here, but have not been here long 
enough to acquire full citizenship. 

Since the situation on the west coast may require more drastic regulations in 
the very near future, it should be possible to license all aliens of enemy national- 
ities who are registered with the Alien Registration Division of the Department of 
Justice as stateless. 

The importance of this suggestion for the west coast becomes evident if the 
figures for enemy aliens are borne in mind. The new registration figures will 
probably show that half of the so-called Germans in California and the majority 
in Los Angeles are, in fact, anti-Nazi stateless refugees with first papers who 
planned to become American citizens and who may be presumed to be as loyal as 
any other alien group in this country. The 1940 alien registration showed about 
19,000 Germans in California, approximately half of them being refugees. The 
situation has probably not changed much since then. The State of Washington 
has about 3,000 Geruian aliens and Oregon has about 1,800 German aliens with 
probably a sin ilar percentage of anti-Nazi refugees. Therefore — as far as the 
enemy aliens of the white race on the west coast are concerned — the possibility 
exists' that, owing to a wrong classification, Americans will either stop distinguish- 
ing between refugees and Nazis or will have their attention diverted from the real 
enemies. 

Quite aside from the humane aspects of the censing proposal, there are some 
important benefits to be derived from the presence of the stateless refugees in 
this area because of the service they can render to the United States by pointing to 
the real enemy aliens in our midst. The services they can render in this respect 
may be enumerated as follows: 

1. Identification of imposters. — -Imposters, especially if posing as refugees, can 
be identified by loyal stateless refugees, by checking their past. An importer can 
prepare a plausible storj' for the last few years and can have falsified documents to 
substantiate his story. But he cannot have such documents to cover his entire 
life. The refugees, coming from every important city and town in Europe, can 
inmiediately check and expose liim if he talks about his past, or they can prepare 
detailed questions to ask him which he will be unable to answer if he is an impostor, 
or they can suggest what person in the United States would know him intimately 
if the story he tells is true. 

2. The Federal Bureau of Investigation cannot possibly have specialists for 
every problem concerning Europeans, in every local office in every city of the 
United States. The local offices cannot obtain help from headquarters for every 
individual item. But whether a given question is significant or not, only the 
expert can tell. An informal group organized locally and consisting of selected 
and trustworthy refugees to assist in selecting significant instances, if letters or 
documents are found which do not seem important enough to send to Washington, 
but which should be checked up locally, can be of inestimable value. 

3. The same set-up might be used to check on the refugees here. There are 
many refugees who, by their past, their activities, their American relationships, are 
beyond suspicion. They could form an advisory board and sift most of the refu- 
gees here at least on some such basis as the following: (a) Valid reasons for loyalty 
to the United States; (6) no reasons for suspicion; (c) requires watching; (d) 
definitely suspicious. 

4. Success in intelligence work depends largely on putting togteher two or more 
pieces of information. In cases where the refugees cannot furnish missing infor- 
mation, they most likely can indicate where it might be obtained in neutral 
countries of Europe (Switzerland or Sweden). 



11796 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

5. The following item from the newspapers may serve as an example of such 
services : 

Mr. Gros, Mrs. Gros, and Mr. Reuter, all American citizens, were arrested in 
Beverly Hills by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Mrs. Gros made a state- 
ment to the press to prove her husband's innocence. Without going into details 
here, it can be said that Mrs. Gros apparently does not know German foreign 
exchange regulations intimately (many refugees were forced to know this regula- 
tion better than lawyers or Federal Bureau of Investigation agents) because 
everything she said seemed to be prima facie proof of guilt, for anybody who 
knows the Nazi regulations. Had refugees been asked to check her statement, 
they would have known what questions to ask to establish guilt or innocence.! 

Such examples could be multiplied ad infinitum if there were an opportunity to 
learn and check the statements made by suspects. 

If no general exemption or no license for the stateless refugee can be achieved, 
then it may be possible as a last resort to do what Great Britain has done. About 
2 months after the war broke out, the refugees there were asked to appear before 
special tribunals, and if found to be genuine refugees, had the following stamped in 
their certificate of registration: 

"The holder of this certificate is to be exempted until further order from intern- 
ment and from the special restrictions applical)le to enemy aUens under the Aliens 
Order 1920 as amended. Refugee from Nazi oppression." 

Perhaps it may be possible to have a similar procedure on the west coast which 
would clarify in a short time the position of all persons who have registered as 
stateless during the recent alien registration. 



Appendix C — Document 1 

March 1, 1942. 
Mr. Joseph P. Loeb, 

Pacific Mutual Building, Los Angeles, Calif. 
Dear Mr. Loeb: The world has reached a stage in its turning where I am in 
need of the counsel and services of an A 1 attorney. 

There were two references on the radio today that the Army is considering 
evacuating all enemy aliens from the Pacific States including California. You 

may remember that'my wife, , came from Manheim, Germany, in 1939. 

She is now eligible for her second papers but we expect that this will take about 
a year. We are expecting to have an addition to our family some time in March. 
I may also be drafted into the armed services, some time in March. Thus, it 

may happen that will be forced to leave the State in the very near future 

and face a rather uncertain future. 

I would very much like to talk this matter over with you and to secure your 
professional advice. I will call you on the telephone Monday afternoon or 
Tuesday to see if I can make an appointment with you. 
Thank j'ou kindly for your consideration of this matter. 
Yours very truly, 



Appendix C^Document 2 

Joseph P. Loeb, 
610 Pacific Mutual Building, 
Los Angeles, Calif., March 4, 1942. 

My Dear Maurice: I am sending to you herewith a letter written to me on 

March 1 by Mr. , w^hose wife, a Jewish refugee from Germany, fears that 

she may be classified as an alien enemy and compelled to leave the State of 
California. 

The letter is written to me in my professional capacity, but Mr. has 

consented that I send it to you, to be used in such manner as you may consider 
proper. 

In order that you mav have some further background for the case, and may 
better understand how it illustrates the hardship and I think injustice that will 
result from the indiscriminate classification of regufee aliens as enemies, I give 
you the following. 

One of Mr. 's grandmothers was born in Los Angeles. His nother was 

born in Los Angeles, and his father in Akron, Ohio. Mr. himself was 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11797 

born in Los Angeles on March 24, 1914. He is a graduate of Stanford University 
and did post graduate work at University of Southern California and the Univer- 
sity of North Carolina. His training has been in sociology and at present he is 
on the staff of the University Religious Conference at University of California of 

Los Angeles. Mr. is a nephew of Mr. S. Tilden Norton, also a native of Los 

Angeles and active, as you know, in welfare and civic affairs. 

I hope that the information which I am sending you will be helpful to you and 
to the authorities with whom you are in contact in your study of the enemy-alien 
situation. 

Cordially yours, 

Joe Loeb, 

TESTIMONY OF CAREY McWILLIAMS— Resumed 

Mr. McWiLLiAMS. I should appreciate it if that could be done. 

I might say one word in connection with the plan. The plan con- 
templates the establishment, by Executive decree, of an alien-control 
authority in which could be vested jurisdiction with respect to the 
several aspects of this plan. I think it is self-evident that such 
matters, as property conservation, are intimately related to other 
aspects of the problem, including resettlement, maintenance, trans- 
portation, and so forth. 

The plan also would establish, as part of the authority to be created, 
a bureau for registration and licensing, all of which would be, as you 
can see, centralized in one authority. 

The provision with respect to registration and licensing is very 
carefully patterned upon the English experiences, which have been 
testified to earlier today by other witnesses. I appreciate the op- 
portunity merely of presenting the plan and I thank you for the 
opportunity. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much, Mr. McWilliams. 

Mr. Bender. The gentlemen of the American Civil Liberties Union. 

TESTIMONY OF A. I. WIRIN, OF THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES 

UNION 

Mr. Arnold. How many are there in your group? 

Mr. WiRiN. Just one. My name is A. L. Wirin. I am counsel for 
the southern California branch of the American Civil Liberties Union. 
Both as a matter of necessity and as a matter of choice I shall be very 
brief at this time. 

I have a short statement which will take just a few minutes to 
present. 

Our approach to the problem is in terms of two primary considera- 
tions: 

Our deep concern for our national as well as local and State security 
through adequate military defense. 

Our abiding belief in the Bill of Rights, and the protection of hard- 
earned American civil liberties, consistent with military security. 

As corollary to our emphasis upon constitutional liberties is our 
commitment to the guaranties of the fourteenth amendment of the 
United States Constitution, which assures all races and groups in our 
midst of the equal protection of the laws. 

Hence, our mind is set against discrimination because of race. 



11798 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Dealing first with the Presidential order — the Executive order — and 
the orders of General DeWitt: 

The President's order authorizing the establishment of military 
areas from which, at the discretion of the military authorities, all 
persons, aliens or citizens, may be removed, and the order by Lt. Gen. 
John DeWitt designating the areas raise serious issues of constitutional 
rights. 

Aside from the question of the constitutionality of the orders, about 
which opinions difi'er, the Civil Liberties Union urges that in the 
administration of these orders, local racial prejudices and selfish 
interests shall not be allowed to influence action. 

We recognize the general fairness and impartialit}^ with which, in 
the course of the war, the Department of Justice has thus far dealt 
with the problem of enemy aliens and their descendants who are 
United States citizens. We trust that under military control that 
may be maintained. 

The orders, m our opmion, are far too sweeping to meet any proved 
need and should be modified to provide examinations, with hearin.gs, 
for all citizens excluded from the designated areas. 

In the event of any impairment of constitutional rights resulting 
from the administration of the orders, the Civil Liberties Union 
offers its services in the seeking of relief in the courts, not to interfere 
with necessary defense measures, but in the interest of conserving our 
fundamental constitutional rights. 

We also consider it highly important that the people generally 
seek to abate the hysteria directed at aliens of the Japanese race. 

President Roosevelt has said we fight to maintain certain freedoms. 
We must not, in the fighting, lose the freedoms for which we fight. 

That concludes my brief statement. 

Mr. Bender, Well, sir, when your house is on fire you don't stop 
to think about some of the things that ordinarily you would think 
about, keeping the pictures straight on the wall, and the rug, and the 
floor, and having it cleaned every day and so on. 

Mr. A\'iRiN. Yes. 

Mr. Bender. We are faced with that situation; you understand 
that? 

Mr. WiRiN. Yes; I think we understand that, and I think we 
appreciate it. 

We realize that during a time of war emergency many liberties which 
ordinarily are permitted have to be circumscribed during the war. 
We feel, however, that there must be a point beyond which there may 
be no abridgement of civil liberties and we feel that whatever the 
emergency, that persons must be judged, so long as we have a Bill of 
Rights, because of what they do as persons, and not because of what 
race that person is a member of. We feel that treating persons, 
because they are members of a race, constitutes illegal discrimination, 
which is forbidden by the fourteenth amendment whether we are at 
war or at peace. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11799 

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE KELLEY, OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT 
COMMITTEE OF THE UNITED CHURCHMEN OF PASADENA 

Mr. Arnold. State your name. 

Mr. Kelley. My name is George Kelley, Pasadena safety chair- 
man, associated with the CaUfornia State Chamber of Commerce. 
I am the chairman of the law enforcement committee of the United 
Churchmen of Pasadena, comprising 10,000 church Laymen. 

In 1932 I was chairman of the East Pasadena Businessmen's 
Association that cooperated with the Japanese community in putting 
on a float for the Tournament of Roses. During that time I had to 
contact the Ambassador at Washington, the consul here, and the 
Central Japanese Agency before anything could be done. So I 
believe I am qualified to make a few statements in that line. 

I just have two recommendations that I would like to make in 
connection with the areas in Pasadena. That is the place where all 
our power lines come through; our water converges there from Boulder 
Dam; and we have a large area that is critical. It was recognized as 
critical by the moving of General Wilson from San Bernardino to 
Pasadena because of that nature. 

I would like to make two recommendations: That you carry back 
to Washington, our absolute necessity of an adequate safe State guard, 
large enough to be able to take over and handle some of the things if 
the Army is moved out; the other is that the Army have a better and 
closer cooperation in relation to civilian defense in southern California. 

Thank you. 

Mr. Bender. Thank you. 

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE KNOX ROTH, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, 
PUBLIC AFFAIRS COMMITTEE OF LOS ANGELES 

Mr. Arnold. State your name. 

Mr. Roth. George Knox Roth, executive secretary, Public Affairs 
Committee of Los Angeles. 

Mr. Bender. Are you a city councilman? 

Mr. Roth. No. I would have like to have been but I wasn't. 

Mr. Bender. That is what kind of a body? 

Mr. Roth. That is a committee much like the National Municipal 
League, composed of a group of leading citizens, chief of which are a 
group of young university professors, concerned about the work 
Clarence Dykstra started here a number of years ago when he was 
professor of the University of California. 

Mr. Bender. Proceed, Mr. Roth. 

Mr. Roth. I have presented to the committee a letter and an 
outline, which I presented to the committee's investigators much 
earlier, of a number of reports which can be found by the committee, 
which I don't think I need read here, because you have them in 
writing. I will read them, however, if you prefer to have them put 
in the record. It is up to you. 

Mr. Bender. We will just put them in the record. 



11800 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

(Outline referred to above is as follows:) 

Outline of the Reports and Findings Which Should Be Available to the 
ToLAN Committee on Defense Migration Presented to Committee 
Investigators Lischinsky and Riley on February 25, 1942, for Their 
Action 

Water resources and the use of acreage not under cultivation in southern 
California. Special report prepared by Water Engineer Sellers, now consulting 
engineer with the Office of Production Management and connected with the War 
Production Board. Report cost $5,000 to prepare. 

Special investigation of the efficiency of Work Projects Administration, 
10,000 acres under cultivation in Los Angeles County. Special research pre- 
pared by Al Thomas, now chief accountant of Los Angeles County Charities 
Department; Robert Wilson, general manager Chino Farm School; George M. 
Bemis, former Director of Research for the Work Projects Administration (Los 
Angeles area) and now with the Office of Production Management, Research 
Board, Washington D. C. Report cost $2,500. 

Special studies on the unemployed cooperative movement in production of food, 
Clark Kerr and others. 

Campbell report on the resettlement of unemployed in Los Angeles County. 
Prepared by the Board of Supervisors of Los Angeles County under direction of 
Vernon Campbell, for many years general manager of the California Cooperative 
Canneries. Campbell report includes the laws passed by the legislature affecting 
agricultural resettlement communities. Provides for establishment of their own 
utilities without regulation of State railway commission, etc. 

Conference on poisonous spray residues held by Dr. Alvin J. Cox, chief, bureau 
of chemistrv. State department of agriculture, on January 8, 1942, with John 
Harvey, Federal Food and Drug Administrator for the 11 Western States. Forty 
pages monograph. 

Brief summary of Japanese Buddhaism prepared by Nyogen Sensaki, local 
leader, to show moral and cultural factors in Japanese Buddhaism. 

Summary of the liquidation of Japanese business in Los Angeles county by 
Junior Produce Club of Los Angeles. 

Report on the total value of vegetables prepared by Ted Akahoshi, secretary 
to the Japanese Commission Merchants Association. Showing approximately 
$19,000,000 (wholesale value) or $45,000,000 (retail value) the extent of depletion of 
food resources if mass evacuation now contemplated is put into effect. 

Report of Edwin P. Arthur, consulting engineer, on the food production situa- 
tion in Los Angeles County. A study of the derivation of fresh vegetables, frozen 
foods, semiperishable railway transportation foods and other factors. 

Reports of Warner Lincoln Marsh, deputy director of the California State De- 
partment of Natural Resources on the land, labor, water, and mineral situation of 
Los Angeles Countv. 

Reports of the Department of Rehabilitation of Los Angeles County on the 
problem of resettlement prepared by Ralph Rutledge, R. H. Sparks, Vernon 
Campbell, Warner Lincoln Marsh, Edwin P. Arthur, and others. 

Report of the county probation office of the delinquency and crime rate in the 
Japanese. Prepared by Mr. Burk of the coordinating council. 

Reports of the superintendent of charities on the absence of Japanese on relief. 

Reports of the jail sentences meted out to Japanese by Sheriff Biscailuz, show- 
ing the absence of crimes of rape, murder, robbery, arson, or other serious crimes 
connected with sabotage. 

Reports of the council of social agencies showing the community chest problems 
handled bv the Japanese themselves. 

Reports of Leon Lewis, lawyer for David Coleman, head of the Antidefamation 
League, connected with the Jewish B'nai B'rith, on the Japanese in Los Angeles 

County. 

Chamber of Commerce statistics presented by Director Merriam on the part 
played by the Japanese in business and agriculture in Los Angeles County. 

California Taxpayers' Association studies on the Japanese problem. 

Reports of the Pacific League showing their plans for the concentration-camp 
tvpe of serfdom to replace agricultural migrant worker supply that the Associated 
Farmers and others are now planning in the event that Federal plans to solve the 
problem do not materialize sufficiently early. 

George Knox Roth. 

March 7, 1942. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11801 

Mr. Roth. These are reports which have been compiled over a 
period of some 8 or 9 years bearing entirely upon this problem. 

As general manager of the county rehabilitation department, a 
Los Angeles County agency, I was employed by Supervisor Gordon 
McDonough, who testified at the committee hearing yesterday, and 
served on a committee with Mr. W. S. Rosecrans, who also was on the 
panel yesterday. And I am intimately aware of the point of view 
which they have mistakenly presented to your committee. I think, 
in fairness to what might be called the alternative point of view on the 
part of the responsible citizens, a brief statement should be made on 
what I think are the findings of these concrete reports. These reports 
can be had available from the sources I have indicated. I shall be 
happy to see to it that those reports are made available iif.the committee 
is anxious to have them. 

I think it is your responsibility in some measure to bring those to 
the attention of the committee. They were Government reports in 
most instances. 

They have been compiled at an expense, I would estimate, of 
$100,000 of public funds in Los Angeles County. They were done 
long before this hysteria started and I think serve as a basis of a very 
definite understanding of the problem long before the present current 
political figures have entered the picture. 

Now political factors enter into the picture and I want to get at the 
facts. I wonder if I may make a brief summary of these extended 
reports which you can have? 

Mr. Bender. Proceed. 

Mr. Roth. The first report is a report prepared by Water Engineer 
Sellers, now on the O. P. M. 

His findings, briefly, are these, that in southern California there are 
not more than 20,000 acres of tillable land most of which will cost at 
least $150 to $300 an acre in order to put into any kind of agricultural 
production. That report cost $5,000 and I am just stating conclu- 
sions. 

The second report is a report compiled by Al. Thomas, now chief 
accountant of Los Angeles County Charities Department. The 
conclusions of that report are these: Los Angeles County had a 
responsibility in 1937, when I was serving as the general manager of 
the department, of taking over 10,000 acres cultivated by W. P. A. 
workers on agricultural projects. These were initiated by Rex 
Thompson, now the southern California manager of the State chamber 
of commerce, who was then superintendent of charities, an able 
businessman. 

These projects were run by men who are now connected with the 
Treasury Department, Linton Smith, in particular, who is one of the 
chief auditors there. So they were handled by competent people. 

COST OF SUPERVISION OF W. P. A. PROJECT PROHIBITIVE 

The conclusions of this research were to tell Los Angeles County 
whether they should pay the sponsors' contribution of the W. P. A. 
project for those 10,000 acres; and the conclusion of that research 
showed one thing, that the cost of supervision of the W. P. A. project 
in monetary outlay was greater than the total value of the vegetables, 
disregarding the free W. P. A. contribution, the free land by license 



11802 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

agreement, the free water contributed by mutual water companies, 
and by the d(>psirtment of water and power, and free S(>eds and imple- 
ments contributed by the Federal Government. 

Briefly, that report showed conclusively concernins; the agricul- 
tural production of vegetables by Caucasians in Los Angeles County, 
that it was cheaper to buy in the vegetable market the Japanese 
vegetables than it was to pay the cost of super-vision alone. 

I only have to refer you to the report for those conclusions. As a 
consequence Los Angeles County refused to continue the W. P. A. 
project, and the project was discontinued and 10,000 acres were 
turned over to Japanese to cultivate. 

The third report made up by Clark Kerr showing the quantities of 
food the Japanese furnished the unemployed during the days of 
unemployment in Los Angeles. 

The Campbell report is a report on the resettlement of unemployed 
in Los Angeles County. Vernon Campbell was the general manager 
of the California Cooperative Canneries for 17 years. He was a 
lobbyist in Washington and represented them there and he has worked 
out a detailed legal program which had the approval of the Governor, 
which has been passed by the legislature providing for the establish- 
ment of agricultural communities in California, The only bill that 
he failed to get passed was a bill appropriationg a million dollars to 
put the thing into effect for unemployed. 

The next report which you should have is the report of Dr. Alvin 
J. Cox, chief of the bureau of chemistry. State department of agri- 
culture. I briefly summarize that report because I am presently em- 
ployed in that department and have had for the last 6 months the 
intimate knowledge of actually analyzing the presence of poison on 
vegetables. 

Mr. Bender. You say you are employed in the bureau of chemistry? 

Mr. Roth. In the bureau of chemistry by the State department of 
agriculture. 

NO DANGER OF POISON BY SABOTAGE 

I prepared the annual report for Los Angeles County and the 
figures are these: That on cabbage, spinach, and celery, the greatest 
amoimt of spray residue was found. In few instances are there 
sufficient quantities to alarm in anjj way the public; and the per- 
centage varies in the matter of quantities from 1 percent of 1 percent, 
to about 9 percent of 1 percent. That, is 1 percent of 1 percent of 
celery is taken oft" the market because of a greater quantity of spray 
residue than allowed by law. That, of course, may be due to a variety 
of things, carelessness or other things. But just say this, that the 
Federal Government over a period of years contributed large sums of 
money in a constructive W. P. A. program and has educated very 
carefully, with the direction of Dr. Alvin J. Cox, the Japanese so that 
today in Los Angeles Comity one can say that there is no danger from 
poison by sabotage from Japanese who grow these vegetables. 

I should like to hear a comment by one of the outstanding students 
of philosophy. Professor Latimer, who happens to be in the audience 
and I would suggest the committee hear him on this question of the 
moral, spiritual, cultural contributions of Buddhism as a world 
religion to our Christian civilization. I won't summarize those 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11803 

because I think Mr. Latimer could do it better tlian I. He is a 
Caucasian and one of the local priests in one of the local Japanese 
temples. 

CONTENTS OF REPORTS 

The next report is a summary produced by the Junior Produce 
Club of Los Angeles and which, I think, has been filed with your 
committee, on the liquidation of Japanese agriculture, business, and 
other forms of enterprise, in which the Japanese are engaged. I 
think that report is sufficient. 

I think also you ought to call in Ted Akahoshi, technically an 
"enemy alien," secretary to the Japanese Commission Merchants As- 
sociation, and see how the $25,000,000 worth of wholesale price 
vegetables might seriously impair the derivation of foodstuffs for our 
local community. 

May I say that in the next report of Consulting Engineer Edwin 
P. Arthur it shows conclusively that there are three forms of deriva- 
tion of foodstuffs in Los Angeles County. The first is by frozen 
food; the second is by canned food; the third by fresh goods from 
Japanese farms. 

The first two are under heavy priorities. Canned goods cannot be 
increased because of the difficulty of getting tin and the difficulty in 
steel. The same thing is true with reference to refrigeration equip- 
ment and consequently the derivation of fresh vegetables is an 
absolute necessity to the normal flow of foodstuffs in Los Angeles 
County, Howard J. Ryan, Gordon McDonough, or W. S. Rosecrans, 
or the chamber of commerce to the contrary. 

The next report is that of Warner Lincoln Marsh, deputy director 
of the California State Department of Natural Resources, who has 
analyzed the cost of increased transportation if the vegetables grown 
by Japanese were discontinued. The actual flow of new food, which 
would be required, would so seriously impair the railroad transporta- 
tion facilities in Los Angeles County that your committee would do 
well to inquire into tliis. 

Next are the various resettlement plans encompassing the Western 
States that are on file with Los Angeles County and which have been 
made available over a period of years to Los Angeles County. 

The other three matters which I think your committee should have 
is a report by the county probation office showing the low delinquency 
rate, almost the negative delinquency rate of Japanese children, 
compared to all other groups in the county. 

Mr. Burk of the coordinating council has that information in con- 
crete form and would be glad to submit it. The superintendent of 
charities likewise has reports on the absence of Japanese on relief, of 
which there are none. 

The same thing is true with Sheriff Biscailuz, who has a report 
showing the jail sentences of people, showing the absence of crimes of 
rape, murder, robbery, arson, or other serious crimes connected wath 
sabotage. 

Likewise, the council of social agencies have reports showing the 
community chest problems that are handled by the Japanese them- 
selves. Your committee would do well to undertake a study to see 
how they handle their own problems. 



11804 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Also, I think that the Antidefamation League, headed by Leon 
Lewis, has made extensive studies of the Japanese, which have not 
been made pubHc and should be made public to this committee. 

Lastly, I tliink Dr. Merriam, director of research of the chamber 
of commerce, has some very interesting material on the Japanese; 
likewise the California Taxpayers Association. 

I have with me an article which I myself published in 1934 in the 
"California Taxpayers Association." This represents the large tax 
group of the State of California. It was written during times when 
hysteria didn't color the judgment of men. Heading this group is 
Dr. M. Johnson, of Pasadena, and others. They felt this article at 
that time was significant and I would like to read just one paragraph, 
if I might, from this article, namely, the cooperation of the Japanese: 

The generosity of the Japanese in Los Angeles County and their sympathy for 
starving men, about to become poverty cases, together with the desire of men 
to retain their self-respect made possible the unemployed cooperative relief move- 
ment. Men soon came from all over Los Angeles County to the Japanese fields 
near Compton. The organization spread contagously to some 120 units through- 
out Los Angeles County. The overproduction of foodstuffs on Japanese farms 
formed the basic industry of the various units. Trade between the units was 
arranged. Oranges were exchanged for vegetables. 

I might say in a summary of this article that at least 20,000 Cau- 
casian families over a period of 2 years were totally cared for and 70 
percent of their food was supplied by the Japanese farmers' generosity 
and I thuik that is something that should be called fully to the attention 
of the Federal authorities. 

I have here a small picture which the committee might well cut out 
of the article showing how those Caucasians would follow the plow 
with the Japanese tilling the soil, to show how little the Caucasian 
knew about bow to till the soil. 

I want to predict that if these farms are taken over by Caucasians, 
after the crop has been harvested, and after the three or four hundred 
thousand dollars' worth of crops in the field is depleted, no Caucasians 
in this county will continue to farm that land under current circum- 
stances, with the high rate of water, cost of fertilizer, and cost of spray 
residue materials. 

OTHER SOURCES OF INFORMATION 

Now, the last comment which I would like to make, I think your 
committee might do what the La Follette Civil Liberties Committee 
attempted to do with the Associated Farmers. I think you should 
call in the Pacific League, a local organization, headed by Judge Rusa 
Avery, and get the details of their plans for trying to make a con- 
centration camp type of system to replace agricultural migrant work- 
ers, no longer available, which supplied large corporation farms in 
California. I think that is one of the moving factors behind this 
current hysteria, behind Mayor Bowron and a number of local people 
who have tried to disturb the Federal Government program. 

I have confidence in the Federal Government and I think your 
committee coming here has been one of the outstanding means of 
calming the unwonted hysteria which we have been subjected to 
locally. I say that as one who has been an outstanding supporter 
of Mayor Bowron, of good government for at least 9 years locally. 




A i;i(iU|i »i evaciKTS. the first tn leave San Francisco, wuiis ai ihc nicetina point lor the busses which took 
them to the train for Santa Anita. Each person was permitted to bring as much baggage as he could 
carry to the rendezvous. There it was collected, tagged, and sent by truck to the station. 



(The pictures on this and following pages were furnished the com- 
mittee by the War Relocation Authority and accepted for the record. 
Other pictures submitted are held in committee files.) 




I ks (ill this chrysanthrmum ranch, which they own. (See tulnw . 




'I'he f;it her ami mother in the family portrait above were born in Japan and have lived in the United States 
for about forty years. Their children were born and educated in California. Two daughters and two 
sons are college graduates or students. 



11804-B 




The Japaiii .^t laim wmiiihii :iI o\ ii ito Seedlings in the growins bed on a farm near 

Centerville. t alil. 1 hi^ i^ i ni Ik iic i i^k which requires skill and experience. 




Born and educated near Centervdle, Calif., this Japanese-American had leased and operated an apricot 
t ranch there before the evacuation became imminent. He has disposed of his ranch and worked as a field 
laborer packing cauliflower. 



11804-C 




11804-D 




11S04-E 




Japanese-Americans shop in a dry soodi -tui\ uw ncd Ij.v an evai-uec vviio is selling out bis stuclc. They r.re 
buying equipment for their own stay at camp. 



11804-F 



Kji 






tf^M WtfS lS; 




Exterior of Japanesj-American dry goods st(]n -h 



Hi- ;U-1 I- Inl. Ihi; CWII'U:! 




The proprietor boards up his San Francisco drug store for the dunuiuii. 



11.804-G 






//^4?//?, 



M.^d^rs f^A 




% 




^ 



A shop closes ill "Little Tokio", Los Aiigi'le^ 



11804-H 




Heads of families about to be esaeuated register at the Civil Control Station in San Francisco. 



11804-1 




A young evacuee waits for the bus with his bedding roll beside him. 



11804-J 




Lalirlcd, .1 < [., ; i;^:uiistthe master list, thisevacuee is ready to leave the assembly point for Santa Anita 



11804-K 




A yotms Japanese-American and his father await their turn to enter the bus. 



11S04-L 







Carpenters are at work building quarters for evacuees at Manzanar, Calif., with the high Sierras in the 

background. 




Evacuee house 



tile .\>^cmhly CciiliT ;it Saul a Anita. Calif,. >tvrU 
huiidine« in the forejiround. 



luav luliind souiv (jf the race track 



11804-M 




The contractor's equipment grades thi? streets at Manzanar while new arrivals watch. 




Evacuees prepare' lui iWu Ur.-,t iiiglii at Manzanar. 



11804-N 




11804-O 




W»iiio^ Uir nttUx%, a iaf<am«r'Aiii«i««o bfeb s/^ifA tit/y U r.-a4y to start ««! fn the f-vacuatUjo, 



I i>»04-P 



NATIONAL nKKKNSK MIUKAIMON I I Sl^") 

I don't spoak as an oppoiiont of his; I s[>t>alv as his t'lioiiil ; nnd I :»ni 
Torv happy to notioo tho aj^jM-oach whioh ho i^avo to vour i'oniuuttO(> 
ami tho approach which your ooniniittoo has u:ivon to him. 

Thoro is just ono thinsr I wouKl liko to havo yon insort in tho roo»>rtl. 
It is not nooossary to road it now. 'Phis is a croup ot" i>\oor[Ms d«\'dini;; 
^\'ith Japanoso farniinir. which woro couiihUhI in lOlM as a part of my 
master's doixroo in socioK\i::y at tho rnivorsity of Southern California. 
I am a professional sociolo«i:ist, at least I consider n\yself as such. 
These were written in lOivi, and 1 thndc mip:ht in some nu^asm'o l\olp 
your eonimittee understand the real reasons why the Japanese aloU(> 
will be the ones io cultivate the farm areas of (""alifornia. 

Mr. Akxold. If you will leave that wo will make it part o( tho 
record. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM SASAGAWA 

Mr. Bender. State your nauie. 

Mr. Sasaga\va. lUU Sasai!;awa. 

Mr. Bender. Go ahead, Mr. Sasap;awa. 

Mr. Sasaoawa. Well, this morniuLr, there was (piitt> a hit o( this 
emotional testimony that was ti;iv(Mi and of course it w.as all liut> and 
a lot of speeches. However, I think thi\i;roup that spoke this morniuj.!: 
represented a snndler ])art of the fla[)aneso community. 

1 realize, of course, that tlu>v l>avo (piito a hit at stak(\ and th(\v 
were sincere in what they were tryin<x (o put across. llowovi>r, tlwMO 
arc eTapanese aliens and citizens in the rural communiti(>s Uoio and up 
North who do not have a «:;riMit knowledjxe of tho Kn<;lish lan«i;uai::c and 
are not able to say what th(>y want, to say. 

Most of those flapaneso who reside in this area and in lh(> noiihorn 
land are di'stitutc. They do not have the finids with whi<'h t.o 
cvacnate when ask(>d to, and (hey are b(>wildorod and more or l(>ss 
at a loss as to what to do. 

Another point stressed was, oidy a^ricullin-o was brou<i;ht up and 
you havo to realize that there* aid a lot of .Iapan(>se who are Anu'ri- 
can citizens, and aliens who are not proficient in the pr()f(>ssittn of 
aj^riculturo. There must be some sort, of means of putting- t.hem 
up and ^iviri".? them something:; to do, because the rbipauose nvo an 
industrious race and they nnist. have somelhin;:: to do, otherwise 
tlu^y sort of waste away, especially those of the older !;('neralion. 

I';mim,()vmI';ni' ok ni.si;! 

TIm^ point that I want to put a,cro8S is that because of (he present 
situation, the jobs in the aircraft factories, shipyards, and other vital 
industries of defenses a,i-e (tloscul to Nisei because of their racial back- 
ground. Constrfpiently, I think that, in tJie evacuation and tins 
construction of theses camps and tlu^ administration an!4,le of it and in 
controllinj^ tJiemselves, that, t,lie Nisei should have a liirjo' part in doing 
this. Of course, the authorities itre in a, position l,o tell us what. (,o do 
and we have (,o e,om[)ly wit,h it< wIk-I iier it is to our hkin;-; or not , beeaiise 
of the existing <;onditions. 

However, I am huvo, that if baiiuony is crea(,ed between thci evaeueoH 
and th(; authorities, it is l,o the benefit of both sides. 



11806 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Bender. You heard Mr. Clark say, which has been repeated 
on a number of occasions, that your leadership and the leadership 
in various lines of endeavor would be called in and would be consulted 
with in order to accomplish this without any difficulty. 

Mr. Sasagawa. Yes; but, continuing, may I add another point to 
that? That I am sure that Mr. Clark, who has been dealing with 
these many officials, has found that we among ourselves have many 
groups, many organizations, and in that way get many conflicting- 
plans and suggestions. So I suggest that the authorities see individual 
leaders, not so much organizations, and compile the data together 
and then issue one command, or not a command, but more or less 
a statement to that effect. 

Mr. Bender. Is there anything further you have to offer? 

Mr. Sasagawa. No. It is just this, that Mr. Clark has more or 
less mentioned about building camps for these evacuees. I am a 
member of the committee on inland farm cooperatives, and I believe 
you have their notes? 

Mr. Bender. Are you a student? Are you going to school now? 

Mr. Sasagawa. Well, no. I am not in school now. 

Mr. Bender. WTiat is your occupation? 

Mr. Sasagawa. WeU, my business was a draftsman at one time, an 
architectural and structural engineering draftsman. I am a member 
of this organization which has 64 churches, or about 6,000 people 
who are farmers, and we at the present time are planning to find a 
site for them. 

Mr. Bender. What church is that? 

Mr. Sasagawa. That is the Christian Church, Federation of Cali- 
fornia. 

Mr. Arnold. You heard Mr. Clark say that the governmental 
office here would be glad to hear from and have the cooperation of 
leaders of Japanese? 

Mr. Sasagawa. Yes. 

Mr. Arnold. And I assure you we will be glad you have that 
cooperation. 

TESTIMONY OF HANS F. SCHWARZER, LOS ANGELES, CALIF. 

Mr. Arnold. \Miat is your name, sir? 

Mr. ScHWARZER. Hans F. Schwarzer. 

Mr. Bender. Proceed, Mr. Schwarzer. 

Mr. Schwarzer. I would like to give you a simple example of a 
simple citizen, if I may call myself a citizen. 

I have been here smce November 10, 1938. I have a lot of friends 
here, and all of us tried to start all over agam and to build up a new 
life. I own an apartment house at 727 South Mariposa, and all of 
us work. I don't like to brag about myself, and to tell the com- 
mittee too much, but as I told you tliis is a simple example of the life 
we try to live here. My son became an Eagle Scout and my daughter 
is a Girl Scout, and we try in every way to get Americanized. 

When I say "we," I don't mean myself alone, but as part of a group. 
The group is the refugees who came here from middle Europe as 
refugees to find a place of freedom and liberty. We have many 
American friends, and all of them have been telling us, "Don't worry; 
this doesn't concern you at all." 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11807 

So I don't think there is one person who really could think that 
we are dangerous or even suspicious. I don't think there has been 
one case where one of our group, if I may call it a group, has been of 
any danger. We know what it would mean if Hitler would win this 
war. I couldn't think of it and I don't believe it is possible. 

THE refugee's POINT OF VIEW 

So we try to cooperate and to do eveiythuig we can to help America 
win this war. I don't want any privileges for our group, but, on the 
other hand, I feel that it would bo a discrimmation if wo would have 
to leave this State. I think America has been built up by immi- 
gTants and I can't see why it should make a little bit of difference 
because somebody who was lucky enough to arrive here 2 years earlier 
than somebody else can become naturalized. In 1 ji years, for instance, 
I would have a chance to take out my second papers, and I can't see 
why we should leave now. 

So we are willing to do everything and to sacrifice everything if we 
could help win the war, but I can't see how it could help this country 
to vnn tliis war if we were to have to leave. 

I think it would be very diflficult for most of us to start somewhere 
else again. I was worried when I heard what Mr. Clark told us when 
he said that the general has made up his mind and that was that, but I 
hope the committee will make it possible to tell the military authorities 
about this problem and these questions, to make it possible not to 
give any pri^'ileges, but to make it possible to make these decisions 
individually and not wholesale. 

jMr. Bender. Do you tliink that is sometliing to worry about when 
he makes up liis mind? Don't you tliink we should be happy that 
we have somebody who can make up liis own mind? 

Mr. ScHWARZER. I might be very glad, but I understood Mr. 
Clark that he wanted to tell the committee that the general has 
spoken and that it has to be like he told it. He means that all of us 
have to leave the so-called area A. 

Mr. Bender. The general is an American and he is one of these 
typical Americans and he believes in the American way. I am sure 
5'ou don't know the general very well. 

Mr. ScHWARZER. I am sorry I don't know him at aU. But I hope 
your words will make us a little more secure. The last few weeks all 
of us have really worried and some of us have wanted to leave to 
avoid a mass evacuation. I would like to have these courts estab- 
hshed which have been mentioned by Dr. Guggenheim. 

TESTIMONY OF RONALD LANE LATIMER 

Mr. Bender. Mr. Latimer, will j^ou please identify yourself? 

Mr. Latimer. I am Ronald Lane Latimer; of American ancestry 
on both sides for about 150 years; before that, English. I ana a 
priest in a Buddhist temple which was originally founded as a mission 
of one of the Japanese Buddhist sects. I have studied Buddhism in 
Japan. I am a graduate of Columbia University. I did some work 
in comparative religion there. 

I didn't expect to come before your committee this afternoon, but 
I heard that there had been certain discussions of religion. There 



11808 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

was a charge, which I have read many times in the press, that the 
Buddhist temples encourage the worship of the Japanese Emperor, 
and many other statements equally fantastic, and as an American 
citizen, and a very loyal one, I wanted to correct some of these errors 
in your records. 

First of all. Buddhism 

Mr. Bender. You wanted to clear up what confusion? 

BUDDHISM DISTINGUISHED FROM SHINTOISM 

Mr. Latimer. Some of the confusion. First of all, the Shinto, the 
political Shinto of Japan and Buddhism are two completely separate 
religions. Buddhism has no more to do with politics than Christianity 
has. 

A Japanese Buddhist in Japan is naturally loyal to his Emperor, 
equally so with a Japanese Christian in Japan. That is true in any 
religion in any nation, I believe. 

The political Shinto that people are so very much afraid of now is not 
an organized religion in the sense that we understand it. We may say 
in America that we have an American Shinto. We reverence George 
Washington. We reverence Abraham Lincoln. We deify the 
Constitution and we hope it wiU be continued to be applied, and we 
celebrate the Fourth of July and the birthdays of various Presidents. 
Shinto is exactly that. 

Mr. Bender. Now, you bring up an interesting question. Some 
people might regard it rather lightly, but in Washington and various 
other places, on the part of Caucasians it has been advanced that the 
Japanese who follow Buddhism, or Shintoism, regard the ruler of 
Japan as the son of God; is that a true picture? 

^Ir. Latimer. That is not true in Buddhism. It is in no way true. 
In Shinto, yes. At least that is the statement; the Japanese Consti- 
tution states that the Emperor is divine. "VMiether that is accepted 
literally or not by an educated person is something that is 
quite different. 

M r. Bender. Do you thinly that is the view of many of the Japanese 
in America who subscribe to that faith? 

Mr. Latimer. I do not. 

I think even the Shinto temples in America have attempted a 
fusion of Americanism and Japanese Shinto by deifying George 
Washington and Abraham Lincoln to make it appealing to the second 
generation of Japanese-Americans. However, I would say that 
Shintoism has never had any meaning to the Japanese-Americans or 
citizens. 

My work in the temple is exclusively with Japanese-Americans, or 
almost exclusively. I am also chaplain of the local Japanese-American 
Boy Scout troop. I have lived in the Japanese section for some time. 
I have many Japanese friends. 

Last October I returned to America after a year in Japan and after 
studying Buddhism and having rather considerable contact with 
Japanese Buddhists there. 

Mr. Bender. Did you sense the impending crisis while you were in 
Japan? 

Mr. Latimer. Very definitely so. That is why I came back. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11809 

Mr. Bender. Did you tell any of the United States Government 
agents regarding your experience or your views? 

Mr. Latimer. I did not tell the Government agents that I thought 
there was going to be a war because certainly every consular official in 
Japan knew as much. 

Mr. Bender. Did you discuss that with your Congressman or any 
other public official here? 

Mr. Latimer. No; I did not. 

Mr. Bender. How many Buddhists are there of the Japanese race 
in the United States? 

Mr. Latimer. Congressman, I couldn't say the exact number. I 
didn't get the figures because I was telephoned to come here this 
afternoon. However, the second-generation Japanese are divided 
between Buddhism and Cliristianity. Political Shintoism we can 
leave out of the picture entirely. It has no meaning for the Japanese- 
Americans. 

EMPEROR WORSHIP NOT CONNECTED WITH BUDDHISM 

Mr. Bender. That is, you can very definitely say, from your experi- 
ence, that there is no relation between the Japanese faith as it is known 
in Japan — the ruling or the predominant faith — that is the Emperor 
worship there, has no relationship with the Buddhist refigion as known 
in America by the Japanese people here? 

Mr. Latimer. I would stake my honor on that; yes. 

Of course, there have been fantastic stories in the press that our 
Buddhist temples have prayers for the Emperor and so on, and 
inscriptions calling upon the people to pray for the Emperor. That 
is completely untrue. 

I have not only been in my own temple, which happens to be the 
second largest in the Japanese section, but I have spoken and taken 
part in activities both with the older Japanese and with the Japanese- 
Americans in other temoles. I would certainly emphatically deny 
that those temples encourage any disloyalty; quite the contrary. 

I think one thing that you don't give any of the Japanese credit 
for is that they have come here to stay and many of them came at a 
time when Japan was passing through a democratic and a liberal 
period. We must remember that in the 1920's for example, that 
Japan was not only liberal, it was practically radical. The first- 
generation Japanese who came here came mostly at a time long before 
this period of militarism and extreme nationalism. 

However, I want to say that Buddhism and Shintoism are com- 
pletely unconnected; that Buddhism in India is an Indian religion; in 
China it is a Chinese religion ; in Japan it is a Japanese religion ; and in 
America it is an American religion. 

With the Japanese-American citizens I have been dealing with, I 
have come across many cases where I think they have gone to perhaps 
ridiculous extremes of patriotism. They are apt to give up their own 
rights on grounds of patriotism, rights that it would be more patriotic 
to retain. They are most of them less critical of conditions in America 
in many ways than I am or any other American is. 

In our temples we teach Americanism and our temples are con- 
trolled by Japanese-Americans. 



11810 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Bender. What percentage of your congregation is Caucasian? 

Mr. Latimer. We have no Caucasian members. We had Cauca- 
sian visitors before the war. 

Mr. Bender. In the event of the evacuation, would you choose to 
go with the evacuees, if you were permitted? 

Mr, Latimer. I wrote to General DeWitt asking for permission to 
go with my people. I want to go with them, yes, emphatically, under 
any conditions. 

JAPANESE WANT RELOCATION TO BE PERMANENT 

What the committee proposes to do with us is another matter. I 
have been discussing that with my people. We urge that some sort 
of provision be made for our people, that they can leave California 
or any district that is liable to become of value in a military way, and 
allow us to go somewhere and settle down permanently with a sense 
of security, and not feel that we are going to be working at something 
that will be destroyed at the end of 4 or 5 years; and that our people 
must come back here and be reduced to a serf class. 

Economically, they are very rapidly being destroyed now. Store- 
keepers are going out of business every day. Give us land. Give us 
some opportunity and some Government help — this is not our fault, 
but the fault of the Government — that we may go somewhere and 
make a fresh beginning and, particularly so for the Japanese Americans. 

We all bow to military necessity, of course, but some of the rulings 
haven't been entirely due to military necessity, I think. For example, 
the present evacuation plans of the Army call for enemy aliens and the 
Japanese-Americans, but, why select the Japanese-Americans to be 
victims? 

Mr. Bender. Frankly, you believe that there are agencies, or 
perhaps just individuals at work, and that these people are good 
Americans, many of them, and others who want to be good Americans? 

Mr. Latimer. Without knowing the political workings around this 
town, I think that for certain groups this represents a windfall. 
Sooner or later the Japanese will be obliged to liquidate their property 
here. They have considerable property. 

Mr. Bender. For your information, I come from a center where 
the manufacture of automobiles and automobile parts is the basic 
industry, Cleveland, Ohio. 

Mr. Latimer. Yes. 

Mr. Bender. And recently Leon Henderson issued an order, the 
Government issued an order to stop the manufacture of automobiles. 
That me.ant the dislocation of thousands of industries and homes and 
individuals and communities. You can very well appreciate what 
an order like that would mean. 

Mr. Latimer. I can indeed. 

Mr. Bender. And under war conditions, these conditions of 
necessity come like a bolt from the sky and there is a need for under- 
standing sometimes when it passeth all understanding. 

Mr. Latimer. That is true. 

However, there is this point to be made. Again the group of 
American citizens that have been selected for evacuation have been 
the Japanese-American citizens. If the Army wishes to be fair, if we 
are expected to make sacrifices for national defense in a national 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11811 

emergency, why not clear out second-generation enemy aliens? 
Why pick out a group? Our people have not fostered a German- 
American Bund. Can second generations of other enemy aliens 
say the same? Wliy should we be selected? All we ask of the 
Government, I think, is a very definite plan for evacuation and that 
when we get it, we are going to receive fair treatment and perhaps 
some help from the Government. 

Mr. Bender. May I ask a question: Why should millions of boys 
be taken from their homes as they are being taken, because it is a 
war? 

Mr. Latimer. Including many of our Nisei boys. 

Mr. Bender. That is right. And taken from their homes and dis- 
located and made to suffer all of the inconveniences and possible death. 

nisei doubly penalized 

Mr. Latimer. That is so. But our group is subject to exactly the 
same chances. Our Nisei boys go into the Army when they are called 
and will have to undergo what every other American boy must undergo 
at this time, but the Japanese- American is also subject to other 
penalties. 

The point I wish to make most is that w^e do want to prove the 
loyalty of our Japanese-Americans. We feel we are entitled to it. 

Mr. Bender. That is exactly the reason why we are proceeding 
in the manner we are. 

Mr. Latimer. Yes. I realize that and I am very grateful for the 
opportunity to come here. 

Mr. Bender. Unfortunately we must meet with Mayor Bowron. 
We have an engagement with him in connection with some statements 
that he made and we must adjourn our hearing. However, we will 
hear from Mr. Craig after you are through. If you will be as brief 
as possible I won't interrupt you. 

Mr. Latimer. All right. I have wandered from the point many 
times because I have been rather angry about a number of situations 
that have arisen. But I simply want to clear up once and for all this 
matter of Buddhism and Shintoism; that Buddhism is a rehgion and an 
ethical creed that some of us consider to be the highest and finest. 
It has no connection whatsoever with any political groups in any other 
country. We do not worship the Japanese Emperor, nor anyone else. 
A man who is a Buddhist is in every way free and in the same way 
can be just as American as a Catholic or a Methodist or a Presby- 
terian. 

Mr. Bender. Thank you for your testimony, Mr. Latimer. 

TESTIMONY OF EARL C. CRAIG, REPRESENTING THE JOHN DEWEY 
FORUM, 214 SOUTH HILL STREET, LOS ANGELES, CALIF. 

Mr. Bender. State your name, Mr. Craig. 

Air. Craig. My name is Earl C. Craig. 

Mr. Curtis. Will you finish in 5 minutes, Mr. Craig? 

Mr. Craig. Yes, easily. I represent the John Dewey Forum at 
214 South HiU Street. 

When I came down here yesterday my intention was to confine 
my remarks entirely to a certain phase of the agricultural program and 



11812 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

I am going to do that, but I want to make a comment briefly on the 
testimony that I have heard. 

I have hved in Los Angeles for some 20 years and I live very near 
a Japanese community where there are some 700 Japanese families. 
I certainly have no anti-Japanese or other sentiments. But I realize 
this: That the military authorities, for reasons which they know 
better than anyone else, from that map which was published by the 
papers, indicates there is a military necessity for removing from a cer- 
tain zone a certain proportion of those people whose loyalty they may 
suspect. There is a lot of tragedy connected with this, and I know the 
removal of whole populations even among the best circumstances 
and with the best motives and even with sympathetic directors, is a 
difficult thing, and I think the committee should bear that in mind 
in its relations with the military authorities who will do this. 

But yet I do not see how the Federal Government could do otherwise. 
We do know this: That a very large percent of the descendants of those 
persons who came from enemy countries still retain the sympathy 
with the enemy countries, even when they become citizens. That is 
a well known fact. 

Then, every country, for its own safety, must take that into con- 
sideration regardless of how good a citizen these individual persons 
may be. 

However, I think their property rights ought to be protected and 
I am somewhat in doubt that they are being adequately protected. I 
think that they should be protected by a real debt and tax moratorium 
because no doubt as soon as the military situation clears up, as soon 
as we are free from the danger of a possible token invasion, as soon as 
the relative power of the Japanese and the American fleets becomes 
definitely established, then this danger will be passed. The Japanese 
and other aliens in this vicinity can then be returned to a normal 
status, but in the meantime the committee should do their duty with- 
out regard to any considerations other than national safety. 

WOULD STIMULATE GARDEN PROGRAM 

Just a word about this agricultural situation. The city of Los 
Angeles has an area of 450 square miles. That is a pretty large city. 
And more than one-half of it was formerly truck-gardening area. A 
tremendous amount of gardening — garden vegetables — could be raised 
in the city area. There is only one thing in the way and that is the 
failure of local government to do the things it could do. You mem- 
bers of the committee know that local government all over the United 
States runs to Congress for aid on this, that, and the other thing, 
and a lot of it is legitimate. But there are a lot of things that they 
could do for themselves and they have failed to do it. 

Now, our local government can stimulate this garden program to a 
tremendous degree by giving every householder who occupies a city 
lot a low agricultural rate for vegetable purposes. They have failed 
to do this. But if they do this particular thing, probably there would 
be 25,000 home gardens raised in this community which would be a 
considerable factor in taking care of the vegetable situation. 

I am going to leave the committee with a statement which I have 
sent to the department of water and power covering this particular 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11813 

situation and we are going to continue to work on them to see that 
they will do their duty. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Arnold. Thank you very much, Air. Craig. 

I want to thank the good people of Los Angeles for the attention 
they have given us. We have heard all we feel we could hear. We 
have an appointment with the mayor at 5:30. He has been waiting. 
We just have time to get there. 

Mr. Abbott. Mr. Chairman, I should like at this time to offer for 
the record a group of exhibits which will serve to supplement the 
hearings here. 

The Chairman. The exhibits will be made a part of the record. 
If there is nothing further, the committee will stand adjourned. 

(Whereupon, at 5:15 p. m., March 7, 1942, the hearing was ad- 
journed.) 



EXHIBITS 



Exhibit 1.^ — The Japanese in California Agriculture 

REPORT BY LLOYD H. FISHER, SOCIAL SCIENCE ANALYST, AND RALPH L. NIELSEN, 
JUNIOR AGRICULTURAL ECONOMIST, BUREAU OF AGRICULTURAL ECONOMICS, 
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, BERKELEY, CALIF., MARCH 16, 
1942 

There were, in 1940, almost 127,000 Japanese in the United States, of which 
almost three-quarters lived in California. The Japanese population in California 
is distributed much the same as the total population except that there are more 
than proportionate numbers of Japanese in the truck-farming areas of the delta, 
on the coast, and around the large cities. 

An evacuation of Japanese from the western section of California cannot fail to 
have important consequences for the agricultural economy of California. 

The total number of Japanese farm operators in the State has been variously 
estimated. The United States Census of Agriculture records 5,135 Japanese 
farm operators in 1940. The United States Census of Population, taken for the 
same date, enumerated 5,807 Japanese farm operators. The number of Japanese 
farm operators is, in fact, somewhat larger than either census, although no meas- 
ure exists of the underenumeration. The alien land law is specific in prohibiting 
either ownership or tenancy of agricultural land to Japanese aliens. The law 
has not been widely enforced and evasions appear common even though legal 
liability is shared by both white landlord and Japanese tenant. Where illegal 
tenure'exists there are obvious motives for the concealment of the fact and alien 
Japanese tenants apparently frequently report themselves as foremen or hired 
laborers. 

The Japanese farmer in California, as elsewhere along the Pacific coast, is 
predominantly a truck farmer. Japanese production is heavily concentrated in 
vegetables and berries. According to the census there were more than 225,000 
acres in farms operated by Japanese, of which some 175,000 acres were harvested. 
These figures undoubtedly share also in the general underestimate of the Japanese 
influence on California agriculture. The 5,135 Japanese operated farms repre- 
sented capital in farm land and buildings of better than $65,000,000 and farm 
implements and machinery valued at almost $6,000,000. By no means all of this 
capital is owned by Japanese. Much of it belongs to white landlords. But it 
does represent a body of productive capital that has been used in agricultural 
production by Japanese, and its continued productive use will be disturbed by 
Japanese evacuation. 

COMMERCIAL IMPORTANCE OF JAPANESE PRODUCTION 

There have been various estimates of the commercial importance of Japanese 
production. No precise measures exist but the three estimates that are at hand 
are in reasonably close agreement and lend substantiation to one another. These 
estimates would place the value of the annual production of truck crops by 
Japanese in California at between $30,000,000 and $35,000,000 grown on between 
175,000 and 200,000 acres of land. Since the value of all California truck crops 
grown both for the fresh market and processing is approximately $100,000,000 the 
proportion of the value grown by Japanese would be between 30 and 35 percent. 

This is a far from negligible proportion not only for California but for the 
Nation as a whole. While Japanese produced 30 or 35 percent of the truck crops 
of California, California produced more than 25 percent of the Nation's total. 
There should be no presumption that present plans for evacuation of Japanese 
from sections of California will result in the loss of all or even a major part of the 
Japanese production in 1942. These simply indicate the amount of production 
which will be influenced to some degree by the evacuation. 

11815 



11816 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Reduction in the supplies of some crops in which Japanese have specialized will 
be felt more at the middle class dinner table than in the food-for-freedom program. 
Strawberries, almost all of which are grown by Japanese, will be missed by many 
consumers. Losses in the production of tomatoes, carrots, green peas, snap 
beans, and onions will more seriously impede America's war effort. Of these 
latter crops the Japanese contribution is most important in tomatoes where an 
estimated 35 to 40 percent of the canning tomatoes grown in the State are grown 
by Japanese. Although less important in amount of acreage, Japanese production 
of market peas, snap beans, carrots, and onions is sizable and represents a large 
proportion of the State production. 

The United States Department of Agriculture has published production goals 
for California in furtherance of the food-for-freedom program covering tomatoes, 
green peas, and snap beans (both fresh and canned), cabbage (fresh and kraut), 
and onions. Half of the 1942 quota for canning tomatoes was grown in 1941 by 
enemy aliens and Japanese-Americans. The proportion of the fresh tomato goal 
grown by these farmers was one-third, fresh snap beans 95 percent, snap beans 
for canning 51 percent, cabbage 34 percent, fresh green peas 40 percent, and green 
peas for canning 8 percent. With the productive facihties of California agricul- 
ture already strained to meet the production goals, the additional burden on these 
facilities which may result from removal of Japanese and enemy aliens will 
undoubtedly be heavy. 

POULTRY PRODUCTION 

Although Japanese have not been important producers of poultry products in 
California, their loss will confront the poultry industry with a special problem. 
The esoteric occupation known as chick-sexing has been largely Japanese in 
California. Without the services of a chick-sexer it is between 2 and 3 months 
before the sex of a chick is apparent. The skill of the chick-sexer lies in his ability 
to determine the sex of young chicks so that the poultryman may segregate pullets 
from cockerels, disposing of the latter if his primary enterprise is the production of 
eggs. A waste of 2 months' feed, facilities, and labor on cockerels constitutes 
serious inefficiency for any commercial egg producer. 

Of 138 certificates granted in California by the International Baby Chick 
Association to chick-sexers, 96 are held by Japanese, all of them native-born since 
the certificates are open only to American citizens. The occupation of chick-sexing 
is not so esoteric that it cannot be learned but it depends upon proficiencies 
acquired by long practice. 

An elusive but extremely important relationship is that of Japanese produce 
merchants to the marketing of fresh vegetables. Japanese marketing organiza- 
tions are spread widely throughout the metropolitan areas of the State and they 
virtually control the distribution of fresh vegetables in the Los Angeles market. 
The web of relationships is not well understood but it is known that produce 
merchants frequently are at the center of a network which reaches from the 
Japanese farm operator to the ultimate retail distributing unit. The probable 
disorganization of this distributing mechanism will be one of the more serious 
consequences of Japanese evacuation. ^ r^ ^■e 

The obvious necessity for evacuating Japanese from certam areas of California 
should not obscure the fact that it will be difficult to replace them in California 
agriculture. Skill and aptitude in truck farming is far more highly developed 
among the Japanese population than will be true of any new group which may 
operate the properties from which evacuation takes place and some loss of effi- 
ciency is inevitable. Even if the complicated property relationships are settled 
with speed and dispatch and new tenants are found for Japanese-operated farms 
without delay the incoming operators and managers cannot in the immediate 
future be expected to maintain the level of production characteristic of Japanese 
operators on truck farms. 

FARM LABOR FORCE 

There is a notion, rather widespread in California, that Japanese in agriculture 
function primarily as managers and entrepreneurs and that they contribute little 
to the physical aspects of production. The occupational characteristics of the 
Japanese population as revealed bv the 1940 Census of Population do not support 
this view. Of approximately 40,000 Japanese employed workers over the age of 
14 more than 19,000, virtuallv 50 percent, were employed in agriculture. Of 
these 19,000 only 5,800 were farm operators. That is to say that some 70 percent 
of all Japanese in the labor force and in agriculture did not function as entre- 
preneurs or managers. Of the remaining 13,000-odd persons employed m agri- 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11817 



culture some 4,000 were unpaid family laborers and between 7,500 and 8,000 were 
hired wage workers and foremen. The potential loss, then, is not confined to a 
loss in management or enterprise but includes the potential loss of a sizable farm 
labor force. 

A loss of 11,000 or 12,000 laborers would not have been a serious loss to Cali- 
fornia producers during the 1930's, a period of heavy migration of distressed farm 
families to California. In 1942, however, there are widespread indications of an 
inadequate supply of labor. Although it is not yet foregone that there will be a 
widespread shortage of unskilled harvest labor there is a very real possibility that 
supplies of labor for specialized crops such as sugar beets and vegetables will be 
short. It is in these crops that Japanese labor is reckoned to have special skills. 

The loss of a supply of experienced hired labor in agriculture will bear as heavily 
upon white producers as upon Japanese. In the past there has been no pronounced 
tendency for Japanese operators to hire Japanese labor. Japanese operators have 
used white, Filipino, and Mexican labor as well as Japanese, while much of the 
Japanese farm labor force has been in white employ. 



INDUSTRIAL LABOR FORCE 

Slightly more than 50 percent of the Japanese population is employed in indus- 
tries other than agriculture. The bulk of this labor force is employed in wholesale 
and retail trade, personal services such as laundering, cleaning and dyeing, and in 
domestic service. There are about 4,400 Japanese employed as domestics repre- 
senting more than 10 percent of all Japanese employed. A portion of the Japanese 
employed in nonagricultural industries serve the Japanese population exclusively, 
or in large part. Virtually all of the professional persons and many of the persons 
employed in retail trade fall into this category and their functions will depend on 
the future location of the evacuated Japanese population. The loss of those 
workers engaged in personal service will not be seriously felt since laundries, 
cleaning and dyeing establishments, and other representatives of the category 
exist in profusion. The facilities remaining will probably not be seriously strained. 
The withdrawal of 4,400 persons employed in domestic service will undoubtedly 
contribute to the servant problem but since that is a perennial problem with the 
group which finds it a problem at all this need not be a matter of serious concern. 

The economic consequences of restrictions upon Japanese cannot be measured 
by the volume of physical evacuation alone. Since any disposition of the Japanese 
problem must, in the nature of the case, be subject to modification there are 
disruptions of normal business arrangements that reach beyond those physically 
affected by evacuation. Any Japanese is now a bad commercial risk irrespective 
of where his business may be located and there is, as has been indicated, a growing 
withdrawal of normal business facilities which will present obstacles to the con- 
tinued gainful employment of all Japanese whether within or without restricted 
zones. 

Appendix Table 1. — Japanese population of California by citizenship and by 

county, 1940 



County 


Total 


Native 
(citi- 
zens) 


Foreign- 
born 
(aliens) 


County 


Total 


Native 
(citi- 
zens) 


Foreign- 
born 
(aliens) 


State total 


93, 717 


60, 148 


33. 569 


Madera 


170 
150 


118 
68 


52 
82 






Alameda. 


5,167 


3,382 


1,785 


Mariposa . 


Alpine... 


Mendocino 


53 
715 

4 


21 
481 


32 


Amador 


2 
216 

6 
155 
829 


2 
143 

6 
103 

518 


73 

52 
311 




234 
4 


Butte 




Calaveras. 


Mono 


Colusa 




2,247 
54 


1,530 
20 


717 
34 


Contra Costa... 


Napa 


Del Norte 


Nevada 


Eldorado.. 


3 
4,527 


1 
3,019 


2 
1,508 




1,855 

1,637 

1 

552 
6,764 

526 

346 
2,076 
5,280 
4,484 

925 


1,178 
1,147 

""""369' 

4,489 

381 

211 

1,283 

3,004 

2,759 

639 


677 


Fresno 




490 


Glenn 




1 


Humboldt... 








Riverside 


183 


Imperial. 


1,583 
1 

756 
508 

1 


994 

'""397" 
323 


589 

1 

359 

185 

1 




2 275 


Inyo 




145 


Kern 


San Bernardino 


135 


Kings 




793 


Lake 


San Francisco 


2,276 


Lassen 


San Joaquin 


1 725 


Los Angeles. 


36, 866 


23, 475 


13,391 


San Luis Obispo... 


286 



11818 



LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



Appendix Table 1. — Japanese population of California by citizenship and by 
county, 1940 — Continued 



County 


Total 


Native 
(citi- 
zens) 


Foreign- 
born 
(aliens) 


County 


Total 


Native 
(citi- 
zens) 


Foreign- 
born 
(aliens) 


San Mateo 


1.218 
2,187 
4,049 
1,301 
2 


800 
1,419 
2,829 

931 

1 


418 

768 

1,220 

370 

1 


Stanislaus.. 


369 

423 

38 


231 

274 

27 


138 


Santa Barbara 


Sutter -. . 


149 




Tehama 


11 


Santa Cruz -. 


Trinity 






Tulare .... 


1,812 


i.ioi 


711 




Tuolumne 






7 
906 

754 


4 
518 
549 


3 

388 
209 


Ventura 


672 

1,087 

429 


421 
699 
283 


251 




Yolo 


388 


Sonoma 


Yuba ... .. 


146 









Source: Bureau of the Census, Census of Population, 1940. 
Appendix Table 2. — Japanese population of California by residence, 1940 ' 



County 


Total 
Japanese 


Urban 

Japanese 


Percent 
urban 


Rural 

Japanese 


Percent 
rural 


Total California 


Number 
93. 717 


Number 
52. 252 


Percent 
55.8 


Number 
41, 465 


Percent 
44.2 




5,167 


3,958 


76.6 


1,209 


23.4 








2 
216 

6 
155 
829 






2 
180 

6 
155 
702 


100.0 


Butte -- 


36 


16.7 


8.3.3 




100.0 








100.0 




127 


15.3 


84.7 








3 

4,527 


3 
1,008 


100.0 
22.3 








3,519 


77.7 




















1,583 

1 

756 

608 

1 


381 


24.1 


1,202 

1 

404 

395 

1 


75.9 




100.0 




352 
113 


46.6 
22.2 


53.4 




77.8 




100.0 












36, 866 
170 
150 


30, 112 

15 

77 


81.7 
8.8 
51.3 


6,754 
155 
73 


18.3 




91.2 




48.7 








53 

715 

4 


14 


26.4 


39 

715 

4 


73.6 




100.0 








100.0 












2,247 
54 


838 
1 


37.3 
1.9 


1,409 
53 


62.7 


Na pa 


98.1 






Orange - 


1. 855 

1,63/ 

1 

552 
6,764 

526 

346 
2,076 
5,280 
4,484 

925 
1,218 
2,187 
4,049 
1,301 
2 


89 
66 


4.8 
4.0 


1,766 

1,571 

1 

331 

3,880 

523 

143 

939 


95.2 


Placer 


96.0 
100.0 




221 

2,884 

3 

203 

1,137 

5,280 

1,441 

55 

730 

S07 

SI 5 

412 


40.0 
42.6 

0.6 
58.7 
54.8 
100.0 
32.1 

5.9 
59.9 
36.9 
20.1 
31.7 


60.0 




57.4 




99.4 




41.3 




45.2 








3,043 

870 

488 

1,380 

3,234 

889 

2 


67.9 




94.1 




40.1 




63.1 




79.9 


Santa Cruz . 


68.3 




100.0 












7 
906 
758 
369 
423 
38 






7 
876 
716 
282 
388 
31 


100.0 




30 

42 

87 

35 

7 


3.3 

5.5 
23.6 

8.3 
18.4 


96.7 




94.5 




76.4 




91.7 




81.6 






Tulare 


1,812 


242 


13.4 


1,570 


86.6 








672 

1,087 

429 


285 
69 

277 


42.4 
6.3 
64.6 


387 

1,018 

152 


57,6 


Yola . ... 


93.7 


Yuba 


35.4 







' Based on U. S. Census of population, 1940. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11819 



Appendix Table 3. 



-Rural Japanese population by sex, nativity, and farm residence 
for California by counties, 1940 





Total 
rural 
Japa- 
nese 
popula- 
tion 


Native 


Native Japanese 


Foreign 
born 


Foreign-born Japanese 




Under 21 


Over 21 


Under 21 


Over 21 




Male 


Fe- 
male 


Male 


Fe- 
male 


Male 


Fe- 
male 


Male 


Fe- 
male 


State ' 


41, 465 


27, 206 


10,398 


9,508 


4,492 


2,808 


14, 259 


71 


51 


8,844 


5,293 






Rural nonf arm 

Rural farm._ 


7,196 
34, 269 


4,628 
22, 578 


1,683 

8,715 


1,531 

7,977 


820 
3, 672 


594 
2,214 


2,568 
11,691 


18 
53 


13 
38 


1,659 
7,185 


878 
4,415 


Alameda County 


1,209 


830 


317 260 1 148 


105 


379 


2 


3 


210 


164 


Rural non farm 

Rural farm 


323 

886 


220 
610 


83 
234 


80 
180 


34 

114 


23 

82 


103 
276 


1 
1 


1 
2 


60 
150 


41 
123 




2 


2 


2 






































2 


2 


2 




























































Butte Countv 


180 


122 


51 


39 


21 


11 


58 




1 


36 


21 






Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


18 
162 


10 

112 


4 

47 


2 
37 


3 

18 


1 
10 


8 
50 






5 
31 


3 




1 


18 


Calaveras County 


6 


6 "> 


1 


3 






























Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


6 


6 


2 


1 


3 




























155 


103 


44 


39 


14 


6 


52 






31 


21 










Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


91 

64 


63 
40 


24 
20 


26 
13 


9 
5 


4 
2 


28 
24 






15 
16 


13 
8 


Contra Costa County. -_ 


702 


435 


171 


152 


65 


47 


267 


1 


1 


175 


90 


Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


92 
610 


61 
374 


30 
141 


19 
133 


5 
60 


7 
40 


31 
236 


1 


.. 


18 
15/ 


12 
78 


Fresno County. - .- 


3,519 


2,377 


848 


885 


397 


247 


1,142 


5 


5 


637 


495 








327 
3,192 


215 
2,162 


69 

779 


92 
793 


30 

387 


24 
223 


112 
1,030 






70 

567 


42 


Rural farm 


5 


5 


453 


Imperial County 


1.202 


771 


336 


314 


72 


49 


431 


1 


2 


258 


170 


Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


15 

1,187 


5 
766 


1 
335 


2 
312 


1 

71 


1 

48 


10 
421 






6 
252 


4 


1 


2 


166 




1 












1 






1 
























1 












1 






1 




Rural farm.. 


















Kern County 


404 


166 


58 


4/ 


43 


18 


238 




1 


206 


31 






Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


37 
367 


24 

142 


6 
52 


8 
39 


9 
34 


1 
17 


13 
225 




1 


8 
198 


4 
27 


KiniTS Onimty 


395 


257 


96 


115 


23 


23 


138 


1 




88 


49 






Rural nonfarm 


121 
274 


75 
182 


28 
68 


36 
79 


5 
18 


6 

17 


46 
92 






32 
56 


14 


1 




35 








1 












1 






1 
















































1 












1 






1 






















Los Angeles County 


6,754 


4,427 


1,718 


1,569 


685 


455 


2,327 


11 


6 


1,389 


921 


Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm . . 


1,415 
5,339 


943 
3,484 


347 
1,371 


324 
1,245 


142 
543 


130 
325 


472 
1,855 


2 
9 


1 
5 


299 
1,090 


170 
751 








155 


105 


36 


42 


14 


13 


50 






26 


24 












6 
149 


4 
101 


2 
34 


1 
41 


"u 


1 
12 


2 

48 






1 
25 


1 


Rural farm 






23 



11820 



LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



Appendix Table 3. — Rural Japanese population by sex, nativity, and farm residence 
for California by counties, 1940 — Continued 





Total 
rural 
Japa- 
nese pop- 
ulation 


Native 


Native Japanese 


Foreign 
bom 


Foreign-born Japanese 




Under 21 


Over 21 


Under 21 


Over 21 




Male 


Fe- 
male 


Male 


Fe- 
male 


Male 


Fe- 
male 


Male 


Fe- 
male 




73 


36 


6 


4 


15 


11 


37 






30 


7 












57 
16 


25 
11 


3 
3 


1 
2 


12 
3 


9 
3 


32 
5 






28 
2 


4 








3 












39 


12 


3 


1 


7 


1 


27 






20 


7 












28 
11 


7 
5 






6 
1 


1 


21 
6 






16 
4 


5 




3 


1 






2 










MerOPd Ominty 


715 


481 


204 


162 


67 


48 


234 


1 


2 


124 


107 






Bural nonfarm 

Rural farm . . . . - 


42 
673 


25 
456 


12 
192 


8 
154 


3 

64 


2 
46 


17 
217 


1 


1 
1 


8 
116 


7 
100 








4 












4 






3 


1 






















4 












4 






3 


1 












































Monterey County 


1,409 


966 


359 


302 


188 


117 


443 


4 


1 


272 


166 


Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm . 


283 
1,126 


197 
769 


70 
289 


58 
244 


42 
146 


27 
90 


86 
357 


_-___. 


1 


50 
222 

22 


35 
131 








53 


20 


5 


7 


5 


3 


33 






11 












28 
25 


6 
14 


1 
4 


...... 


3 
2 


2 

1 


22 
11 






16 
6 


6 








5 










Orange County 


1,766 


1,125 


423 


360 


221 


121 


641 


1 


2 


432 


206 








342 
1,424 


208 
917 


76 
347 


69 
291 


39 

182 


24 
97 


134 
507 






93 
339 


41 


Rural farm. . 


1 


2 


165 






Placer County 


1,571 


1,100 


423 


369 


194 


114 


471 


5 


2 


264 


200 






Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm- . 


112 
1,459 


70 
1,030 


20 
403 


27 
342 


12 
182 


U 
103 


42 
429 


2 
3 


1 
1 


26 
238 


13 

187 






Plumas County. 


1 












1 






1 
























1 












1 






1 




Rural farm. . 










































Riverside County 


331 


230 


96 


76 


28 


30 


101 


1 




60 


40 


Rural nonfarm 


34 
297 


29 
201 


8 
88 


11 
65 


4 
24 


6 

24 


5 
96 






3 

57 


2 


Rural farm 


1 




38 


Sacramento County 


3,880 


2.579 


1,035 


942 


368 


234 


1,301 


7 


1 


779 


514 


Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm. . 


824 
3,056 


524 
2,055 


202 
833 


170 
772 


90 
278 


02 
172 


300 
1,001 


4 
3 


1 


185 
594 


110 
404 






San Benito County 


523 


380 


138 


137 


67 


38 


143 


2 


1 


78 


62 


Rural nonfarm 


60 
463 


45 
335 


15 
123 


18 
119 


6 

61 


6 
32 


15 
128 






8 
70 


7 


Rural farm 


2 


1 


55 






San Bernardino County. 


143 


80 


24 


25 


19 


12 


63 


1 




41 


21 




49 
94 


20 
60 


4 
20 


4 
21 


8 
11 


4 
8 


29 
34 






22 
19 


■J 


Rural farm . 


1 




14 






San Diego County 


939 


592 


220 


229 


92 


51 


347 




1 


245 


101 




113 
826 


75 
517 


30 
190 


32 
197 


7 
85 


6 
45 


38 
309 






28 

217 


10 


Rural farm. . 




1 


91 






San Joaquin County 


3,043 


1.864 


682 


647 


359 


176 


1,179 


5 




839 


335 




199 
2,844 


115 
1,749 


50 
632 


34 
613 


18 
341 


13 

163 


84 
1.095 






60 
779 


24 


Rural farm 


5 




311 






San Luis Obispo County 


870 


605 


226 


223 


96 


60 


265 






167 


98 












191 
679 


13U 
475 


46 
180 


52 
171 


13 
83 


19 
41 


61 
204 






38 
129 


23 


Rural farm 






75 












NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11821 



Appendix Table 3. — Rural Japanese population by sex, nativity, and farm residence 
for California by counties, 1940 — Continued 





Total 
rural 
Japa- 
lese pop- 
ulation 


Native 


Native Japanese 


Foreign 
bom 


Foreign-born Japanese 




Under 21 


Over 21 


Under 21 


Over 21 


] 


Male 


Fe- 
male 


Male ^lle 


Male 


Fe- 
male 


Male 


Fe- 
male 




488 


332 


132 


99 


54 


47 


156 






99 


57 


San Mateo County 










147 
341 


94 
238 


37 
95 


23 
76 


16 
38 


18 
29 


53 
103 






37 
62 

309 


16 


Rural nonfarm 






41 


Rural farm.-- 








Santa Barbara County . 


1,380 


905 


316 


267 


200 


122 


475 


1 


2 


163 


Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


763 
617 


526 
379 


153 
163 


149 
118 


137 
63 


87 
35 


237 
238 


----- 


2 


148 
161 


87 
76 


Santa Clara County 


3,234 


2,261 


801 


826 


370 


264 


973 


5 


8 


537 


423 


Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


427 
2,807 


284 
1,977 


100 
701 


97 
729 


52 
318 


35 
229 


143 

830 


1 
4 


1 

7 


88 
449 


53 
370 


Santa Cruz County 


889 


638 


240 


222 


104 


72 


251 


1 


1 


138 


111 




106 

783 


79 
559 


26 
214 


30 
192 


14 
90 

1 


9 
63 


27 

224 






18 
120 


9 


Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


1 


1 


102 




2 


1 








1 






1 




Shasta County 








. 


























2 


1 






1 




1 






i 




Rural farm 








Siskiyou County 


7 


4 


1 


1 


1 


1 


3 




1 


1 


1 


Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


7 


4 


1 


1 


1 


1 


3 




1 


1 


1 


Solano County 


876 


504 


197 


175 


80 


52 


372 


4 


3 


238 


127 


Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


198 
678 


99 
405 


38 
159 


38 
137 


13 
67 


10 
42 


99 
273 


2 
2 


2 
1 


66 
172 


29 
98 


Sonoma County 


716 


519 


205 


178 


81 


55 


197 




1 


111 


85 




182 
534 


128 
391 


51 
154 


35 
143 


24 

57 


18 
37 


54 
143 






31 

80 


23 


Rural farm 




1 


62 


Stanislaus County 


282 


169 


77 


50 


30 


12 


113 






75 


38 


Rural nonfarm 


12 
270 


162 


4 
73 


3 

47 






5 

108 






3 
72 

84 


2 


30 


12 






36 


Rural farm 








Sutter County 


388 


251 


125 


85 


19 


22 


137 


2 


1 


50 


Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


50 
338 


34 
217 


19 
106 


9 
76 


1 
18 


5 
17 


16 
121 


-_-._ 


.-_- 


12 

72 


4 
46 


Tehama County 


31 


22 


8 


10 


3 


1 


9 


1 




5 


3 


Rural nonfarm 


10 
21 


7 
15 


2 
6 


5 
5 






3 
6 


1 




1 
4 


1 


3 


1 


2 


Rural farm 








Tulare County 


1,570 


957 


401 


325 


161 


70 


613 


2 


4 


425 


182 




131 
1,439 


94 
863 


50 
351 


27 
298 


9 
152 


8 
62 


37 
576 






23 

402 


14 


Rural farm--- - 


2 


4 


168 


Ventura County.— 


387 


229 


93 


74 


39 


23 


158 


3 




107 


48 


Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


128 
259 


57 
172 


17 
76 


13 
61 


22 

17 


5 
18 


71 
87 


1 
2 




54 
53 


16 
32 


Yolo County 


1,018 


657 


252 


221 


115 


69 


361 


4 


1 


227 


129 


Rural nonfarm 

Rural farm 


211 
807 


110 
547 


49 
203 


26 
195 


27 
88 


8 
61 


101 
260 


2 
2 


.-.__- 


75 
152 


24 
105 


Yuba County -- 


152 


86 


27 


28 


23 


8 


66 






52 


14 


Rural nonfarm 


3 
149 


1 
85 


1 
26 








2 
64 






2 

50 




28 


23 


8 


1 


14 



























Source: U. S. Bureau of Census, Census of Population, 1940. 
60396—42 — pt. 31 14 



11822 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Appendix Table 4. — Number of Japanese farm operators, Apr. 1, 1940, California 



County 


Japanese 
farm 
opera- 
tors 
(total) 


Full 

owners 


Part 
owners 


Mana- 
gers 


All 
tenants 


State total 


5,135 


1,015 


280 


240 


3,583 








130 


28 


14 


10 


78 


















Butte --- 


23 


4 


4 


4 


11 








'7 
70 












14 


4 


3 


49 




















412 


175 


27 


36 


174 




















212 


20 




15 


177 










• 18 
30 


6 
9 




5 
5 


7 




3 


13 


Lake 


















1,523 
16 
14 


73 
12 


40 


46 


1,364 




4 






















(2) 
107 












57 


7 


8 


35 




















130 
13 


16 


5 


5 


104 


















245 
157 


33 

75 


15 

7 




197 




21 


54 








57 

416 

40 

19 

144 


19 

173 

3 

14 

25 


5 
32 


4 
13 
3 


29 




198 




34 




5 
14 


m 






105 










214 
82 
71 
61 
390 
106 


38 
5 

16 
5 

63 

11 


15 
9 
5 


5 


156 




68 






50 




3 
18 


53 




23 
12 


286 




83 
































73 
48 
34 
21 
3 


15 

35 

12 

8 




10 


48 






13 






5 


17 


Sutter -- 


4 


9 






3 














139 


33 


21 


16 


69 








24 
92 
11 


5 
6 

7 


3 
6 




16 


Yolo 


5 


75 




4 











1 No distribution by tenure, to avoid disclosure. 

2 Less than three farm operators. 
8 Included with full owners. 

Notes.— In various counties full owners include part owners or managers, to avoid disclosure. 
Source: Census of Agriculture, 1940. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11823 



Appendix Table 5. — Acreage of commercial truck crops grown by enemy aliens 
and Japanese^ American citizens in California ' 



Commodity 



Artichokes 

Asparagus 

Canning snap beans 

Marketing snap beans (spring) 

Snap beans (fall) 

Green lima beans 

Cabbage 

Cantaloup (Imperial) 

Cantaloup (other) 

Carrots (fall and winter) 

Carrots (spring) 

Cauliflower (fall and winter).. 

Cauliflower (spring) 

Celery (fall and winter) 

Celery (spring) 

Celery (summer) ... 

Cucumbers (pickle) 

Cucumbers (table) 

Garlic 

Spring lettuce 

Lettuce (Imperial) 

Summer lettuce. _. 

Fall lettuce 

Bermuda onions 

Int. onions 

Late onions 

Canning peas 

Peas, spring Imperial 

Peas, other spring 

Peas, fall 

Peas, fall Imperial 

Peppers. Bell 

Peppers, chili (dried) 

Peppers, canning 

Peppers, pimento 

Spinach, canning 

Spinach, table 

Strawberries, southern 

Strawberries, northern 

Tomatoes, canning 

Tomatoes, Imperial 

Tomatoes, summer 

Tomatoes, fall (northern) 

Tomatoes, fall (southern) 

Watermelons, Imperial 

Watermelons, other 

Total . 



Total 

1940 

acreage 

for 

State 



10, 600 

79, 780 

563 

0,950 

4,600 

2,373 

6,850 

26, 100 

12, 000 

9,800 

13, 700 

6,700 

8,850 

8,850 

3,100 

1,800 

2,330 

2,200 

1,890 

30, 350 

15, 200 

16,500 

27, 550 

800 

1,350 

3,200 

2,394 

7,500 

20, 700 

8,500 

2,300 

2,300 

3,865 

442 

690 

9,538 

3,200 

2,380 

3,470 

71, 531 

4,000 

11,000 

5,850 

6,100 

5,500 

9,900 



485, 146 



Estimated 
acres 
grown 

by enemy 
aliens 



5,300 
16, 176 

239 
6,254 
4, 140 

892 
2,019 
6,525 
2,279 
3,115 
2,945 
4,152 
5.860 
5.185 
2,790 
1,620 
1,048 

990 
1,327 
8,774 
3.040 
4,110 
6,260 

240 

540 
1,280 

182 

750 
5,632 
6,625 

230 
2,070 
3.478 

377 

210 
4, 769 
2,400 
2,142 
3,123 
28, 613 
3,600 
7,307 
1,227 
4, 515 

550 
2,040 



2 176, 940 



Estimated 

total 

acres grown 

by enemy 

aliens as 

percent of 

State 

acreage 

for item 



Estimated 
acres grown 
by alien and 
Japanese- 
American 
citizens 



5,300 
20, 164 

287 
6,602 
4,369 
1,011 
2,362 
7,830 
2,880 
3.605 
3,630 
4,487 
6,302 
5,627 
2,954 
1,710 
1,165 
1,100 
1,420 
10, 530 
3,800 
4,935 
7,637 

240 

675 
1,440 

182 
1,125 
6,855 
7,387 

345 
2,185 
3,672 

400 

279 
5,723 
2.600 
2,261 
3,296 
35, 765 
3,800 
7,857 
1,520 
4,820 

825 
3,030 



3 205, 989 



Estimated 
acres grown 
by enemy 
aliens and 
Japanese- 
American 
citizens as 
percent of 
State 
acreage 



50 
25 
51 
95 
95 
43 
34 
30 
24 
37 
26 
67 
71 
64 
95 
95 
50 
50 
75 
35 
25 
30 
28 
30 
.50 
45 
8 
15 
33 
87 
15 
95 
95 
90 
40 
60 
81 
95 
95 
50 
95 
71 
26 
79 
15 
31 



42 



1 Estimates made by Carl Schiller, Division of Agricultural Statistics, Bureau of Agricultural Economics, 
and Murray Thompson, economic advisor to western region, Agricultural Adjustment Administration, to 
gage the effects of evacuation of enemy aliens and Japanese-American citizens. Released by the Bureau 
of Agricultural Economics for submission to the House Committee Investigating National Defense Mi- 
gration. 

2 36 percent, 
s 42 percent. 



11824 



LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



Appendix Table 6. — Table showing estimated acreage of vegetables in California 
and the probable percentage and amount grown by Japanese nationals and Japanese- 
Americans 



Crop 



Total 

acreage, 

1938 



Percent 
(estimated) 
grown by 
Japanese 



Acreage 
(estimated) 
grown by 
Japanese 



Value 
(estimated) 

of crop 
grown by 
Japanese 



Artichokes - 

Asparagus 

Canning snap beans 

Market snap beans 

Green limas for manufacture 

Cabbage - 

Cantaloup (Imperial).- 

Cantaloups (other) 

Carrots 

Cauliflower 

Celery 

Cucumbers (pickle) 

Cucumbers (market) -- 

Garlic -. 

Lettuce 

Onions (Bermuda) 

Onions (intermediate) 

Onions (late). -. 

Canning peas 

Market peas (spring) 

Market peas (fall) 

Chile and dried peppers 

Potatoes (early) 

Spinach (canning).. 

Spinach (market) 

Strawberries.. _ 

Tomatoes canning (north)i.. 
Tomatoes canning (south)'.. 
Tomatoes market (south)'... 
Tomatoes market (north)'... 
Watermelons 

Total... 



9,700 

71, 510 

919 

9,180 

1,280 

7,700 

28, 000 

10, 150 

21, 100 

14, 500 
14, 000 

1,956 
2,100 
2,310 

99, 050 
1,250 
1,800 
3,140 
3,740 

30, 850 

15, 200 
5.200 

34,000 
9,466 
2,800 
5, 030 

61, 905 
9, 626 

16, 300 
10, 650 
17,200 



485 

17, 877 

459 

6,885 



3,080 

14,000 

4,060 

8,440 

8,700 

11, 175 

978 

1,575 

1,155 

29, 715 

250 

720 

1,256 



7,712 
9,120 
4,420 
1,700 
4,733 
2,240 
4,527 

21, 667 
3,850 

14, 670 
4,260 
4,300 



93, 850 

1, 355, 250 

93,500 

1, 108, 500 



313, 200 

2, 720, 000 

888, 400 

2, 326, 000 

1, 478, 400 

4, 667, 250 

132, 500 

283, 500 

225, 000 

5, 942, 100 

64, 000 

156, 000 

301, 600 



847, 250 

1, 239, 000 

531, 250 

251, 950 

124, 500 

549, 600 

2,181,600 



4, 182, 000 
'"322," 500 



522, 512 



194, 009 



32, 378, 700 



1 1940 acreages. 

Note. — Estimates made by Carl Schiller, Crop Reporting Service, and P. A. Minges, Agricultural 
Extension Service. 



Appendix Table 7. — Importance of aliens and Japanese-Americans to the achieve- 
ment of production goals for specified truck crops in California 











Percent of 


Alien and 




Total 
California 






State 


American- 




Estimated 


Production 


acreage 


Japanese 


Commodity 


acreages 


goal for 


grown by 


share of 




in 1940 


in 1941 


1942' 


alien and 


1942 pro- 








American- 


duction 










Japanese 3 


goals 




Acres 


Acres 


Acres 


Percent 


Acres 


Tomatoes, fresh 


26, 950 


28,150 


28,600 


67 


19, 095 


Tomatoes, canning.. 


71, 531 


80,620 


83,000 


50 


41, 500 


Green peas, fresh 


39, 000 


39, 300 


45,000 


40 


18, 000 




2,394 


1,650 


2,500 


8 


200 


Cabbage, kraut and fresh 


6,850 


6,000 


6,500 


34 


2,210 


Onions .- - — 


5,350 


5,380 


7,500 


44 


3,300 


Snap beans, fresh . 


11, 550 


10, 800 


11,000 


95 


10, 450 




563 


540 


700 


51 


357 








485, 146 


495, 370 


2 519,200 


42 


218, 064 







' Preliminary goal announced in September 1941. 

2 Does not include strawberries. 

s Percentage estimates made by Carl Schiller and Murray Thompson. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11825 



Appendix Table 8. — Japanese employed workers, I4 years old and over, by sex, 
nativity, major occupation, and industry groups, California, 1940 



Occupation and industry group 



Japanese employed workers 



Total 



Natives 



Foreign 
born 



Natives 



Male 



Foreign 
born 



Female 



Natives 



Foreign 
born 



EMPLOYED WOEKEES T!Y MAJOE OCCUPATION GEOUP 

Employed (except on public emergency work).. 

Professional workers 

Semiprofessional workers 

Farmers and farm managers 

Proprietors, managers, and oflScials, except farm 

Clerical, sales and kindred workers 

Craftsmen, foremen, and kindred workers 

Operatives and kindred workers 

Domestic service workers 

Service workers, except domestic 

Farm laborers (wage workers) and foremen 

Farm laborers , un paid family workers 

Laborers, except farm... 

Nonclassifiable 

EMPLOYED WOEKEKS PY INDTTSTEY GEOUP 

Employed (except on public emergency work) . 

Agriculture 

Forestry (except logging) and fishery 

Coal mining 

■Crude petroleum and natural gas production 

Other mines and quarries . 

Construction ' 

Food and kindred products 

Textile-mill products. 

Apparel and other fabricated textile products 

Logging 

Sawmills and planing mills 

Furniture, store fixtures, and miscellaneous woolen 



17, 165 



23. 209 



11,883 



18, 227 



5,282 



371 

97 

1,663 

1,049 

3,154 

296 
1,375 
1,829 

802 
2,781 
2,493 
1,118 

137 



589 

102 
4,144 
3,168 
1,454 

385 
1,342 
1,406 
1,619 
4,911 
1,461 
2,487 

141 



202 

68 

1,584 

888 
1,983 

269 
1,017 

370 

334 

2,481 

1,536 

1,077 

74 



435 

92 
3,911 

2,754 
985 
356 



1.015 

4,363 

221 

2,401 



169, 

29 

79 

161 

1,171 

27 

358 

1,459 

468 

300 

957 

41 

63 



17, 165 



23, 209 



11, 883 



18, 227 



5,282 



7,; 



175 



11, 691 
552 



6.191 
171 



9,570 
543 



1,407 
4 



4 
3 

25 

171 

6 

24 



Paper and allied products 

Printing, publishing, and allied industries 

Chemicals and allied products 

Petroleum and coal products 

Leather and leather products 

Stone, clay, and glass products.-- 

Iron and steel and their products 

Nonferrous metals and their products 

Machinery 

Automobile and automobile equipment 

Transportation equipment, except automobile 

Other and not specialized manufacturing industries. .. 
Railroads (including repair shops) and railway express. 

Trucking service 

Other transportation.- - 

Communication 

Utilities - --- 

Wholesale trade 

Food and dairy product stores; milk retailing 

Eating and drinking places 

Motor vehicles and accessories; retailing and filling 

stations.. 

Other retaU trade 

Finance, insurance, and real estate 

Automobile storage, rental and repair service 

Business and repair services, except auto 

Domestic service 

Hotels and lodging places 

Laundering, cleaning, and dyeing services 

Miscellaneous personal services 

Amusement, recreation, and related services 

Professional and related services,. 

Government 

Nonclassifiable 



28 

18 

110 

21 

7 

4 

1 

4 

4 

2 

1 

7 

7 

6 

92 

25 

2 

9 

1,036 

2,254 

480 

100 

7,422 

105 

189 

36 

2,178 

133 

455 

271 

67 

457 

113 

192 



2 

2 

57 

424 

14 

12 

1 

3 



141 
45 
4 

1 
2 
2 
6 



1 

13 

49 

69 

36 

1 

4 

844 

1,847 

1,092 

57 

884 

343 

67 

68 

2,215 

654 

630 

360 

152 

640 

6 

174 



2 
1 
4 
3 
2 
1 
7 
6 
6 
87 
18 
2 
7 

851 
1,755 

231 

85 
416 

66 
184 

30 
702 

53 
301 

70 

44 
211 

31 
100 



2 
2 

57 
141 
8 
4 
1 
3 

27 

9 

123 

43 
4 
3 
1 
2 
2 



108 
6 
19 



4 

764 

1,442 

724 

54 

694 

293 

67 

67 

1,599 

406 

442 

242 

132 

453 

6 

125 



2 

185 
499 
249 

15 

326 

39 

5 

6 

1,476 

80 

154 

201 

23 

246 

82 

92 



Source: U. S. Bureau of Census, Census of Population 1940. 



11826 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



Appendix Table 9. — Japanese employed workers, 14 years old and over, by sex, 
nativity, and major occupation for California counties, 1940 ^ 



Counties by sex and nativity 


Employed 

(exclusively 

on public 

emergency 

work) 


Farmers 
and farm 
managers 


Farm 
laborers, 

(wage 

workers) 

and foremen 


Farm 

laborers, 

unpaid 

family 

workers 


State total: 
Male: 


11, 883 
18, 227 

5,282 
4,982 


1,584 
3,911 

79 
233 


2,481 
4,363 

300 
548 


1,536 




221 


Female: 


957 




1,240 






Alameda: 
Male: 


671 
873 

367 
315 

30 
41 

6 
11 

16 
23 

7 
7^ 

98 
190 

31 
31 


49 
121 

2 
8 

9 
12 

2 
3 

3 
6 


110 
77 

20 
27 

13 
16 


39 




5 


Female: 


18 


Foreign-born 


29 


Butte: 
Male: 


1 




1 


Female: 


1 




1 

3 
10 


3 


Colusa: 
Male: 


4 


Foreign-born . 




Female: 


1 










Contra Costa: 

Native 


27 
55 

3 
4 


53 
114 

2 
U 


2 


Foreign-born . . . - 


■2 


Female: 

Native - 


6 


Foreign-born . . 


5 


El Dorado: 
Male: 

Native 




Foreign-born 


1 




1 




Native 






Foreign-born 










Fresno: 
Male: 

Native ___ 


587 
773 

204 
191 

116 
336 

37 
41 


170 
283 

11 
12 

41 
149 

4 
4 


178 
302 

26 
66 

20 
98 


111 


Foreign-born . 


19 


Female: 

Native - 


45 


Foreign-bom .. . 


44 


Imperial: 
Male: 

Native 


19 


Foreign-born 


1 


Female: 

Native 


2 


Foreign-born 


3 


9 


Inyo: 
Male: 

Native . 




Foreign-born 


1 








Female: 

Native . 








Foreign-born 










Kern: 
Male: 

Native 


82 
254 

23 
29 

45 
101 

14 
10 


7 
18 


32 

177 


5 


Foreign-born 


1 


Female: 

Native. 


I 


Foreign-born 


1 

6 
27 


2 

17 
52 


4 


Kings: 
Male: 

Native 


7 


Foreign-born . 




Female: 

Native 


1 


Foreign-born 




2 


2 



' Source: U. S. Census, Census of Population, 1940. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11827 



Appendix Table 9. — Japanese emploijed workers, 14 years old and over, by sex, 
nativity, and major occupation for California counties, 1940 — Continued 



Counties by sex and nativity 


Employed 

(exclusively 

on public 

emergency 

work) 


Farmers 
and farm 
managers 


Farm 
laborers, 

(wage 

workers) 

and foremen 


Farm 

laborers, 

unpaid 

family 

workers 


Lake: 
Male: 












1 




1 




Female: 
















Los Angeles: 
Male: 

Native - 


4,956 
7,305 

2,323 
2,421 

19 
24 

1 
3 

15 
40 

14 
16 

4 
8 


298 
1,287 

12 
94 

12 
16 


435 
684 

113 
203 

2 
6 


605 


Foreign-born _ -- 


62 


Female: 

Native . 


432 




647 


Madera: 
Male: 


2 






Female: 










2 


Marin: 
Male: 


3 
2 




1 








Female: 












1 


Mendocino: 
Male: 




2 
6 






1 




Female: 














Merced: 
Male: 

Native _ - 


70 
108 

9 

5 


26 

78 


15 
22 

1 
1 


20 




1 


Female: 


5 


Foreign-born . 


2 


2 


Modoc: 

Male: 






3 








Female: 


















Monterey: 
Male: 


340 
381 

92 

87 

3 

7 

1 
3 

240 
427 

71 
82 

219 

248 

36 

17 


51 
85 

1 
8 


98 
138 

15 
18 

1 
2 


25 




3 


Female: 


11 




14 


Napa: 
Male: 






3 














1 


Orange: 
Male: 


76 
172 

6 
10 

44 
94 


87 
207 

8 
12 

122 
123 

7 
3 


49 




2 


Female: 


39 




44 


Placer: 
Male: 

Native - 


35 




3 


Female: 


7 


Foreign-born 


6 


1 



11828 



LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



Appendix Table 9. — Japanese employed workers, 14 years old and over, by sex, 
nativity, and major occupation for California counties, 1940 — Continued 



Counties by sex and nativity 


Employed 
(exclusively 
on public 
emergency 
work) 


Farmers 
and farm 
managers 


Farm 
laborers, 

(wage 

workers) 

and foremen 


Farm 
laborers, 
unpaid 

family 
workers 


Plumas: 
Male: 










ForeigD-born 


1 








Female: 








Foreign-born 










Riverside: 
Male: 


55 
92 

20 
14 

728 
1,128 

397 
342 

116 
169 

24 
36 

176 
241 

116 

88 

310 
423 

92 
90 

561 
591 

286 
203 

190 
178 

88 
38 

81 
72 

11 
6 

33 
64 

16 
10 

232 

508 

114 
123 


19 
46 


10 
21 


5 




1 


Female: 


2 






3 

149 
297 

12 
27 

62 

58 

1 
6 

45 
30 

1 
5 

122 
211 

16 
38 

126 
133 

29 
27 

45 
46 

7 
3 

23 
38 

3 
3 

10 
14 

2 


1 


Sacramento: 
Male: 

Native - -- 


111 
309 

4 
22 

23 

70 


156 




29 


Female: 


90 




108 


San Luis Obispo: 
Male: 


17 




1 


Female: 


2 




1 

31 

57 

1 
3 

19 
37 


12 


San Mateo: 
Male: 


15 




3 


Female: 


21 




19 


Santa Barbara: 
Male: 


11 




1 




1 




1 

167 
264 

13 
10 

39 

77 

2 
5 

33 
31 

1 


6 


Santa Clara: 
Male: 


140 




24 


Female: 


105 




114 


Santa Cruz: 
Male: 


78 




13 




64 




20 


San Benito: 
Male: 


18 




1 


Female: 


5 




2 


San Bernardino: 
Male: 


5 
12 


3 




1 




3 




1 

48 
115 

4 
9 


1 


San Diego: 

Male: 


72 
170 

11 
23 


35 




10 


Female: 


34 


Foreign-born 


44 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11829 



Appendix Table 9. — Japanese em-ployed workers, 14 years old and over, by sex, 
nativity, and major occupation for California counties, 1940 — Continued 



Counties by sex and nativity 



San Francisco: 
Male: 

Native 

Foreign-born.. 
Female: 

Native 

Foreign-born.. 
San Joaquin: 
Male: 

Native 

Foreign-born.. 
Female: 

Native 

Foreign-born.. 
Shasta: 
Male: 

Native 

Foreign-born.. 
Female: 

Native 

Foreign-born.. 
Siskiyou: 
Male: 

Native 

Foreign-born.. 
Female: 

Native 

Foreign-born.. 
Solano: 
Male: 

Native 

Foreign-born.. 
Female: 

Native 

Foreign-born.. 
Sonoma: 
Male: 

Native 

Foreign-born., 
Female: 

Native 

Foreign-born. 
Stanislaus: 
Male: 

Native 

Foreign-born. 
Female: 

Native 

Foreign-bom. 
Sutter: 
Male: 

Native. 

Foreign-born. 
Female: 

Native 

Foreign-born. 
Tehama: 
Male: 

Native. 

Foreign-born. 
Female: 

Native 

Foreign-born. 
Tulare: 
Male: 

Native 

Foreign-born. 
Female: 

Native 

Foreign-born. 
Ventura: 
Male: 

Native 

Foreign-born. 
Female: 

Native 

Foreign -born. 



Employed 

(exclusively 

on public 

emergency 

work) 



525 
1,194 



494 
367 



557 
1,015 



185 
165 



91 
234 



101 
106 



238 
450 



81 
156 



Farmers 
and farm 
managers 



Farm 
laborers, 

(wage 

workers) 

and foremen 



97 
151 



272 
620 



Farm 
laborers, 
unpaid 

family 
workers 



131 
305 



11830 



LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



Appendix Table 9. — Japanese em-ployed workers, I4 years old and over, by sex, 
nativity, and major occupation for California counties, 1940 — Continued 



Counties by sex and nativity 


(Employed 

exclusively 

on public 

emergency 

work) 


Farmers 
and farm 
managers 


Farm 
laborers, 

(wage 
workers) 
andjforemen 


Farm 
laborers, 
unpaid 

family 
workers 


Yolo: 
Male: 


157 
217 

49 
51 

57 
85 

20 
15 


52 
66 

1 

7 

3 
13 


36 
69 

1 
9 

35 
35 


30 




S 


Female: 


20 


Foreign-born .. .. 


15 


Yuba: 
Male: 






2 


Female: 








1 


5 









NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11831 



/ 




} \ 




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JAPANESE POPULATION 
CALIFORNIA 1940 



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EACH OOT REPRESENTS "0 JflPAMESE 

JAPANESE "POPULAnON -IN AREAS Of 
CONCENTRATION INO'CitTeO SY NUMBER 




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11832 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



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i. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE 



JAPANESE OPERATED FARMS 
CALIFORNIA 1940 



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national defense migration 11833 

Exhibit 2. — Statistics on Japanese Farmers for Specified 

Counties 

reports by county commissioners, submitted by frank m. kramer, super- 
vising inspector, california state department of agriculture, sacra- 
mento, calif. 

State of California, 
Department of Agriculture, 
Sacramento, Calif., March 4, 1942. 
To: F. M. Kramer, Supervising Inspector. 
From: Bureau of Fruit and Vegetable Standardization. 

As requested in your teletype of March 2, the accounting office has rushed the 
tabulation of the information relating to the percentage of tomatoes delivered by 
Japanese growers as shown on certificates issued by the bureau of fruit and 
vegetable standardization. The results, including figures obtained from bureau 
of shipping point inspection service, are as follows: 

Total tonnage delivered July 22, 1941, to end of season, 1941 677, 122. 997 

Total tonnage delivered by Japanese growers 184, 906. 120 

Percentage of total tonnage delivered by Japanese growers 27. 3076 

The tonnages delivered are computed from the Department's records of total 
charges made for inspections performed by our bureau at the rate of 20 cents per 
ton, and include only those deliveries made beginning July 22, 1941, to the end 
of the season. 

The figure for the total tonnage delivered by Japanese growers was based on 
information taken from certificates carrying Japanese names, which certificates 
were segregated from those of other growers to the best of the ability of the em- 
ployees tabulating this information. 

The total figure also includes deliveries made by individual Japanese growers 
who are members of an association and whose names are shown on the records of 
this department. 

There may be some cases unknown to us where a delivery is actually made by 
a Japanese grower but recorded on the certificate in the name of the landowner 
other than a Japanese. This tonnage, therefore, would not be included in the 
total tonnage figure for Japanese deliveries. Similarly, contracts made by can- 
neries or corporations with Japanese would not be included in cases where the 
deliveries are made in the name of some party other than a Japanese grower. 

In instances where the name of a Japanese grower is shown on the certificate 
with that of a non-Japanese grower, the tonnage involved was listed as having 
been delivered by a Japanese grower. 

You can readily understand that there is no method by which the percentage 
of deliveries made by Japanese growers can definitely be determined, but the 
figures shown above are based on conclusions made from information obtained 
from our certificate records. 

Due to the limited time allotted to supply you with the information requested, 
we have not been able to eliminate the duplication of grower names from the 
lists supplied to us including the names of growers who made deliveries to can- 
neries involved in canning tomato operations. Therefore, in determining the 
percentage by count of growers who delivered tomatoes for canning purposes 
during the 1941 season, we have not eliminated all of the duplications either in 
the Japanese or non-Japanses classification. 

On this basis we submit the following information as to the number of growers. 
These figures do not include the number of growers who delivered to two canneries 
located in southern California where the inspection work was performed by the 
bureau of shipping point inspection service, and the data relating to number 'of 
growers is not available. 

Total number of growers — all areas 3, 282 

Total Japanese growers — all areas 907 

Percentage Japanese growers 27. 6355 

We are not in a position to give you accurate information as to the other 
questions asked in your teletype with reference to the expected acreage of canning 
tomaties for the coming season or the effect of evacuation orders upon such 
acreages. 

Very truly yours, 

H. W. PouLSEN, Assistant Chief. 



11834 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Orange County Department of Agriculture, 

Santa Ana, Calif., March 6, 1942. 
Mr. Frank Kramer, 

Supervising Inspector, 

20Jf State Building, Los Angeles, Calif. 
Dear Mr. Kramer: In response to your inquiry of March 6, we have the 
following for the congressional committee's consideration: 

1. The number of farms operated by Japanese in Orange County during 1941 
was approximately 200. 

2. The number of Japanese farmers in the county during the same period was 
1,232 plus or minus 50. 

3. During 1941 some 12,000 acres were devoted to such crops as asparagus, 
green beans, berries, cabbage, cauliflower, celery, sweet corn, cucumbers, grain, 
lettuce, onions, oranges, peas, peppers, potatoes, spinach, squash, sugar beets, 
tomatoes, miscellaneous bunch vegetables and some livestock. Seven thousand 
seven hundred acres of the 12,000 were controlled by the Japanese. 

Up to the present there has been but little or no shifting of any of this acreage 
held by Japanese to American farmers. 

Much contusion exists in the minds of the Japanese about future planting activ- 
ity. Operations are at a standstill on most of these farms. However, this land 
will be farmed if it is made available soon enough to other than Japanese farmers. 
Very truly yours, 

Roy E. Black, 
Deputy Agricultural Commissioner. 

Report on the Japanese farming situation in San Bernardino County 

Japanese farm operators. 5 

Japanese farmers 6 

Number of farms owned or leased by Japanese 18 

Number of acres leased 84.5 

Number of acres owned 20 

Number of citrus orchards owned or leased by alien Japanese 10 

Number of acres of citrus orchards owned or leased by alien Japanese 80 

Number of Japanese citrus orchard workers (alien) 3 

Japanese aliens on farms 6 

Japanese- Americans working on alien farms 6 

Vegetable ranches farmed with aliens on them 18 

Vegetable acres farmed with aliens on property 104.5 

Japanese- Americans on farms as laborers or helpers 5 

American (white) owners hiring Japanese (aliens hired, 1; Japanese- 
Americans hired, 2) 1 

Japanese cliildren on the farm but not working 15 

Farm leased by a Japanese but not operating 1 

Acres leased by a Japanese but not operating 30 

SUMMARY 

Japanese farm owners or operators 21 

Japanese alien workers jl 

Japanese-American workers 2 13 

Total 45 

Japanese children not working 41 

Riverside County Agricultural Commissioner, 

Riverside, Calif., March 6, 1942. 
Mr. Frank Kramer, 

Supervising Inspector, Bureau of Standardization, 
State Department of Agriculture, 

Room 204 State Building, Los Angeles, Calif. 
Dear Mr. Kramer: In respect to your telephone request of today for certain 
information relative to Japanese farmers following is a report from a survey made 
in Riverside County: 

1. Total acreage planted to truck crops in Riverside County, as reported in the 
annual acreage and crop report for the year 1941, 17,686.5 acres. 

2. Percentage heretofore farmed by Japanese, 17^ percent. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11835 

3. Japanese are still farming 17)4 percent of the acreage planted to truck crops. 

4. Truck crop acreage being farmed by Japanese, up to present date, totals 
3,111 acres (according to survey recently completed). 

For your further information I am submitting a copy of a report on the Japanese 
farmer registration for Riverside County, as completed in February 1942. 

1. Number of Japanese farmers in Riverside County 58 

(a) Number American-Japanese 31 

(6) Number alien Japanese 27 

2. Total acreage farmed by Japanese 3, 396 

(a) Farmed by American-Japanese 2, 404 )i 

(b) Farmed by alien Japanese 991j^ 

Acreage includes — ■ 

Grain acres. _ 270 

Alfalfa do 10 

Chickens (3 farmers) do 5 

Onions do 40 

Bunch vegetables or truck crops do 3, 071 

3. Land owned and farmed by American-Japanese do 862 

4. Land owned and farmed by alien Japanese do 221 

5. Land leased from American by American-Japanese do 1, 519)^ 

6. Land leased from American by alien Japanese do 714}4 

7. Land leased by American-Japanese from American-Japanese _ do 23 

8. Land leased by alien Japanese from American Japanese do 56 

Trusting that the above information will prove helpful. 

Very truly yours, 

W. H. Wright, 
Agricultural Commissioner. 

REPORT BY IVAN A. WOOD, AGRICULTURAL INSPECTOR, COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO, CALIF. 

No Japanese farmers have been forced to evacuate land in San Diego County. 
Four alien lessors have voluntarily evacuated their farms. The total acreage 
involved is only 350 acres. The largest ranch had 90 acres of string beans, 
40 acres of strawberries and 35 acres of lima beans planted. These crops have 
all been taken over by white farmers. Twenty-five acres of lettuce just planted 
was abandoned. Seventeen acres of squash and 15 acres of celery were also 
abandoned. Both were diseased or insect-infested. The labor involved in the 
evacuation of these four farms were approximately two-thirds Japanese and 
one-third Mexican. 

The above statistics are not a true jjicture of the situation in San Diego County. 
In many of our most important fresh vegetable producing areas, agricultural 
activity has practically stopped. The Japanese farmers have their land leased 
a year in advance but due to the present uncertainty are not preparing the land 
or planting crops. This situation is becoming serious, most of our summer crops 
are usually planted by February 15. Hundreds of acres are now lying idle. 

After our winter squash and celery are harvested, the soil is worked, fertilized, 
and planted immediately to summer vegetables. In the Chula Vista area where 
from 500 to 600 acres of celery have already been harvested, the land from which 
the celery was removed still contains the roots, trimmings, and other refuse which 
in any normal year would have been turned under immediately following harvest. 
This unfortunate situation has been the result of the uncertain policy of our 
governmental agencies toward the Japanese farmers. I believe certain definite 
steps should be taken to put the land held by the Japanese to actually producing 
food for defense. Following the suggestion of our office, many American-Japanese 
citizen farmers have continued to plant, but this is the exception rather than the 
rule. 

Regarding the effect on vegetable production caused by the internment of 
alien Japanese farmers for the duration in many cases the American-born sons 
and other members of the family continue to harvest crops already planted but 
are not making any attempt to plant new crops. No farmers are located near 
aircraft plants so the situation is not quite the same as it was in other counties. 



11836 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Summary of Japanese-farmer survey in San Diego County 
(Prepared by San Diego County Department of Agriculture) 

1 . Number of Japanese farmers (alien and American) 177 

2. Number of farms (locations or plots of ground leased or farmed) 230 

3. Total number of acres (approximately) 6, 000 

4. Principal crops by American- Japanese (in acres) : 

Celery 100 

- Cucumbers 15 

Tomatoes 375 

Strawberries ,- 100 

Asparagus - 50 

Bunch vegetables i 30 

Cabbage 150 

Cauliflower 35 

Total 855 

5. Principal crops by alien Japanese (in acres) : 

Celery 200 

Cucumbers 35 

Tomatoes 615 

Strawberries 400 

Asparagus ._ 60 

Bun ch vegetables _. 70 

Cabbage 250 

Cauliflower 75 

Total 1, 705 

6. Number of acres farmed by American-Japanese without assistance of 

alien Japanese 948 

7. Number of acres farmed by American-Japanese with alien assistance. _ 1, 540 

8. Number of acres farmed by aliens with American-Japanese assistance. _ 3, 119 

9. Number of acres farmed by alien Japanese without Japanese- American 

assistance 1, 040 

In answering 6, 7, 8, 9, we have considered both employed Japanese aliens and 
American-Japanese citizens, as well as members of the lessees or farmers' family. 

No. 9 includes Japanese alien farmers who operate small farms and employ no 
outside labor; or large alien operators who employ Mexican or Filipino labor. 

State of California, Department of Agriculture, 

Sacramento, February 25, 194^. 
Mr. P. W. Keen, 

Secretary, Southern California Chapter, Institute of Scrap Iron and Steel, 
SSo Rowan Building, Los Angeles, Calif. 

Dear Mr. Keen: It has been called to our attention in various localities in 
southern California that farm implements and livestock used in connection with 
farming activities have been purchased from Japanese farmers who are being 
evacuated, or are about to be evacuated, from their farm lands. 

It has been reported to me that some second-hand dealers are taking undue 
advantage of this emergency situation by purchasing farm implements and live- 
stock from Japanese farmers at prices far below the regular market price for such 
farm equipment. Many instance of such purchases have been called to my 
attention by farmers who are taking over the various farms from the Japanese. 
These farmers report that the properties which they have taken over have been 
stripped of the necessary farm implements, thereby making it impossible to con- 
tinue farm operations. 

This presents a serious curtailment in the proper marketing of the farm prod- 
ucts involved and it will result either in the loss of farm produce, or at least pre- 
vent it from being properly marketed during this crucial period of national emerg- 
ency. Therefore, it is necessary that we tax our farm resources to capacity in 
order to meet the requirements set up by the Federal Government for farm 
produce. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11837 

You will agree that it is our patriotic duty to assist in any way possible to 
maintain the requirements for farm produce which haye recently been set by our 
National Government. 

The purchasing of these Japanese-owned farm implements and livestock either 
for resale or to be converted into scrap iron, etc., has created a serious situation, 
and as director of agriculture of the State of California I have called this matter 
to the attention of State and Federal authorities charged with the handling of the 
alien problem and I have been advised that if this condition continues, appropri- 
ate action will be taken to rectify this deplorable situation. I therefore urge you 
to inform your members to refrain from purchasing or otherwise acquiring agri- 
cultural implements and livestock from Japanese farmers who are being evacu- 
ated, or are about to be evacuated, from their lands. 

These practices such as are being indulged in by second-hand dealers are con- 
trary to the spirit and purpose of the Presidential Executive order issued Feb- 
ruary 20, 1942. Hence, will you kindly advise the members of your association 
to govern themselves in accordance with the requests herein contained? 
Very truly yours, 

W. J. Cecil, Director. 



Exhibit 3.— Report of the Agricultural Resources and Pro- 
duction Committee, Los Angeles County Defense Council, 
Los Angeles, Calif. 

This raport was drawn by a subcommittee consisting of Fran R. Wilcox, Dr. 
George F. Clements, A. W. Christie, Homer A. Harris, Howard Miller, C. B. 
Moore, and Harrv Schuyler. In addition the committee has been assisted by 
Messrs. Harold J. 'Ryan, Harold Pearson, and H. L. Remmers. 

The report was presented to the Los Angeles County Defense Council by Harold 
J. Ryan, chairman of the agricultural resources and production committee. 
Febriiarv 9, 1942. 

(The general recommendation with respect to evacuation of Japanese is as 
follows :) 

CONTROL OF JAPANESE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA 

A substantial part of the Japanese population in southern California is located 
in rural areas. Farming operations, particularly in the vegetable field, are re- 
tarded pending definite and detailed instructions as to their disposition. The 
Japanese population is hesitating to prepare land and plant crops, fearing that 
they will shortly be removed from their present properties, and other farmers 
are' not making "definite plans, not knowing what the production from Japanese 
tilled farms will be. 

Vegetable production is on the "must list" of the Department of Agriculture 
and must not onlv be maintained but increased during the current season. 

It is fuUv recognized that there is at present some difficulty in connection with 
obtaining farm labor, and while the removal of Japanese will further accentuate 
this problem temporarilv, it will give a base for developing labor plans which can 
be used during the war emergency period. Under the above circumstances the 
following recommendations are made with encouragement that action be com- 
plete and immediate: 

1. All Japanese of the following classifications who reside within 50 miles of the 
Pacific coast and Mexican border, or who reside in other areas within a 10-mile 
radius of munition plants or military camps. 

(a) Alien Japanese of all ages. 

lb) Nonalien Japanese under 18 years of age living with alien parents. 

(c) All Japanese who have American citizenship but who have been visitors 
or have come from Japan at anv time since June 17, 1940. 

(d) All other Japanese who have American citizenship; this to be attempted 
at first bv an appeal that they remove themselves on their own volition. If this 
voluntary action is not immediate and fully effective, the necessary Federal action 
should be undertaken. 

2. It is recommended that Japanese in the above classifications be moved to 
points in the Rockv Mountain sugar-beet areas, or other areas deemed safe by the 
militarv authorities where housing facilities are available, regardless of whether 
their labor can immediately be usee'. This recommendation is based upon the 

60396— 42— pt. 31 15 



11838 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

fact that they would be thoroughly removed from coastal areas and that their 
labor could eventually be utilized to an advantage. They could probably relieve 
other labor in California from the necessity of migrating to those districts during 
the peak-load periods which are the spring and fall months. This plan entails 
three definite actions as follows: 

(a) Federal Security Administration should be charged with the responsibility 
of developing housing facilities. They should use, wherever possible, the present 
facilities pending construction of other housing units. 

(b) The United States Department of Agriculture should be charged with the 
responsibility of utilizing this labor to the fullest extent in the newly located 
regions. 

(c) The services of the State department of argiculture and the county agricul- 
tural commissioners be utilized to assist landlords and farm operators in finding new 
farmers to take over leased lands for harvesting of crops now planted and planting 
of new crops. 

3. Land vacated by Japanese removed as hereinabove outlined would probably 
amount to 15,000 acres in Los Angeles County. No official figures from other 
counties are now available to this committee. It is believed, however, that the 
total will exceed 40,000 acres in the counties from and including San Luis Obispo 
southward, some of which is not being planted and will not be in all probability if 
present conditions are continued. Under the supervision as outlined in 2 (c) 
above, if handled promptly and before the season is further advanced the land 
can be put to proper use and severe additional losses avoided. It maj^ result in 
changing of some crops, inasmuch as experienced labor would not be available 
to produce such items as celery. Other crops required by the Department of 
Agriculture would be substituted. 

4. This plan is submitted for immediate action to be concurred in by the county 
defense councils and by the State defense council. It is then to be submitted to 
pro])er authorities for coordinated action. It is further reconuncnded that a public 
statement as to this procedure be made at the earliest possible date. 

The principles of the above program have been adopted by the committee for 
the county defense council, and a copy of their final statement is attached hereto 
as exhibit 1. 

This committee further recommends detailed operations with respect to handling 
Japanese farm properties as follows: 

EXHIBIT 1. RECOMMENDATION OF THE AGRICULTURAL RESOURCES AND PRODUC- 
TION COMMITTEE TO THE COUNTY DEFENSE COUNCIL FOR USE OF VACATED 
CROPLAND 

Orders of the Federal Government have resulted in the vacating of lands 
previouslv farmed by Japanese in certain areas of Los Angeles County. Cancela- 
tion of leases in other areas has vacated other croplands, and further orders are 
likelv to result in vacating other lands. 

In order to utlize these lands as quickly as possible it is necessary to secure 
American farm operators to operate them for the owners or original lessees as 
lessees, sublessees, or managers. 

The agricultural resources and production committee recommends detailed 
operations designed to accomplish this purpose to be set up for a period of not to 
exceed 4 months as follows: 

We recommend the immediate appointment of Mr. W. S. Rosecrans as agricul- 
tural coordinator for the Los Angeles County Defense Council without compen- 
sation under the supervision of the county agricultural commissioner. 

In addition the defense council is requested to furnish two fulUtime secretaries, 
necessary office space, telephone service, and incidental office expenses in the 
agricultural commissioner's department. 

Three supervising assistants will be required. It is now believed that experi- 
enced men in the vegetable field familiar with financing and technical operations 
can be had at no salarv cost. I^xpenses of operating in the field will l)e required at 
a total expense of $450 per month. These three assistants will have office space 
in the agricultural commissioner's office adjacent to the agricultural coordinator. 

The services of 14 field supervisors will be obtained. These supervisors will 
each be assigned to a given area as outlined in exhibit 2, attached.' It is now 
believed that these men can be obtained from feed and fertilizer comjmnies without 
iost to the county of either salary or expense. 

' Not printed. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11839 

It is recommended that the defense council instruct the agricultural commis- 
Bioner and the county livestock inspector to lend assistance to the agricultural 
coordinator by furnishing for field work such men as may be spared from other 
duties. Preliminary assurances of help have been given by the college of agriculture 
of the University of California and from agencies such as growers' marketing 
organizations, seed and fertilizer companies, and individual farmers to such a 
degree as to impress the committee that every competent agency will lend its 
active aid to the program. • 

The organization should be set up immediately in order to function on properties 
which are already vacated and additional properties which will be vacated in the 
very near future. 

The purpose of the organization would be to reestablish labor and supervision 
on properties vacated by Japanese and to utilize equipment and machinery to the 
fullest advantage. This entails coordination with Federal officials in the matter 
of land titles, leases, and sale of equipment. Because of the necessity of having 
Federal assistance, it is recommended that we request the part-time service of an 
attorney, which we believe can be secured without cost, such attorney preferably 
to be unattached to the Government but approved by Mr. T. Clark, alien coordi- 
nator for the Federal Government. 



Exhibit 4. — The Trading with the EnExMy Act and the Alien 

Property Custodian 

BEPOKT BY BERNARD SHAPIRO, BOALT HALL, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, 

BERKELEY, CALIF. 

The Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917 is still in force and remains the basic 
enactment with regard to the subject which is considered here. The Alien Property 
Custodian was appointed under that act for the purpose of conserving enemy 
property. The Custodian, however, gained widening powers through amend- 
ments to the act which were passed with apparently little consideration as riders 
to various appropriation bills. The Trading with the Enemy Act defines 
"enemies" for the purposes of that act. Because the Custodian derives his powers 
and assumes his duties under that act he has no power over the property of any- 
alien enemy unless the latter is an "enemy" under the act. The Alien Enemy 
Act consequently does not govern the activities of the Custodian. Generally 
speaking, enemies under the Trading with the Enemy Act are residents of an 
enemy country or allies of enemy countries, government officials, etc., of an enemy 
or ally of an enemy country, and other persons designated by the President. In 
World War I, the JPresident designated interned aliens and alien enemy women as 
enemies. It seems that no such proclamation has been made in this war to date. 
Under the Trading with the Enemy Act as it now reads, the President cannot 
designate United States citizens as eneniies. 

The act authorizes the appointment of an Alien Property Custodian and a 
designation of his duties and powers by the President. The President in World 
War I did so appoint and designate. The Custodian was delegated much of the 
power of the President under the act and this delegation was held to be constitu- 
tional. The Custodian was allowed to license firms and individuals to do business. 
He held enemy property as a common-law trustee. He had the power to seize 
any property of any afien and property due any alien. He did not confiscate the 
property, but was supposed to conserve the rights of the enemy in his property. 
The courts seem to assume that the Government has the power to confiscate, but 
this has not been done. The Custodian could sell the property if he desired. Most 
of the vices of the Custodian centered around the favored selling of property to 
friends and influential persons. Even the original requirement that public sale 
must be had was later repealed. Many American investors were injured because 
of abritrary action by the Custodian with regard to enemy property in which they 
had interests. It is impossible to list all his powers, but is sufficient to say that 
they were complete. He nominally held the property in trust for the enemy. 

Resident afien enemies were not enemies under the act and the Custodian 
repeatedly refused to seize their property. At present they are still not enemies 
and we have no enemies over which the Custodian has jurisdiction except those 
named in the act. The freezing orders issued by the President, however, have 
effectively curtailed the free flow of money, licenses, and credit to aliens whether 



11840 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

resident or nonresident. These freezing orders cannot be dealt with at length 
here, but it is important to note that they assume the character of haste legislation 
and their frequently changing substance lend to confusion and uncertainty. 
No alien who is not constantly surrounded by able and even psychic lawyers can 
possibly understand his rights. No alien who is interned is as yet an enemy, but 
it is impossible to protect his property unless an efficient organization is ready to 
step in and act with authority and thus alleviate the confiscatory combination of 
freeze order and physical removal. 

The office of the Custodian in the last war resembled a huge trust company, 
but as was mentioned above the arbitrary power vested in the office led to cruel 
and wasteful action with regard to enemy property. It is well to remember that 
seizure by the Custodian is doubly delicate in that no enemy under the act may 
bring suit in any State or Federal court. The Custodian, therefore, should 
occupy the position of trustee in more than just the sense of title and power to 
sell. His moral responsibilities are tremendous. If this officer is to take over the 
task of handling resident alien property the problems confronting him assume 
proportions which try even the imagination. For example, the recent freezing 
orders were softened to allow resident alien Japanese to operate farms, etc. If 
these persons are to be declared enemies they should be allowed to run their farms 
in order to maintain the agricultural standards necessary to health and welfare 
of a wartime economy. The opportunities, however, to destroy essential business 
because of the failure of certain enemies to obtain a license should be considered. 
Also, produce houses could be ruined by zealous citizens who desire to eliminate 
their competitors. Further, if aliens are to be evacuated from strategic areas, if 
•citizens of the United States are to be evacuated, some disposition must be made 
of their property. 

The power, admitted by the courts without any direct holdings, to confiscate 
property is based upon the enemy status of the one whose property is to be con- 
fiscated. This would not apply "to resident aliens unless they were declared, by 
Presidential proclamation, to he enemies. Under the act, citizens cannot be 
declared enemies, but it seems that Great Britain's act allows naturalized citizens 
of enemy origin to be declared enemies. We have decisions, from Marshall to 
Douglas, that there should be no "degrees of citizenship." Consequently, could 
we change our act to conform with Great Britain's? Great Britain has no four- 
teenth amendment. If we could constitutionally conform to Great Britain and 
declare citizens to be enemies or g-Uies of enemies, then that power would probably 
extend to the confiscation of property, because it seems that the power to confiscate 
follows from the power of a government to declare that certain persons are enemies. 
If we cannot, activities with respect to citizens, even though naturalized, may be 
required to ke less arbitrary; the arbitrariness with which enemies' property is 
treated cannot be questioned legally because it is assumed that the property could 
be confiscated if the Government were so inclined. We might even have a 
situation wherein we could declare persons enemies for some purposes under the 
act and not for other purposes. 

Note. — The freezing orders were issued by the President under the authority 
of an amendment to section 5 (B) of the Trading with the Enemy Act. 



Exhibit 5. — Memorandum on Alien Property 

REPORT BT BARTLEY C. CRUM, 2001 RUSS BUILDING, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF. 

Present method of handling problem is cnmhersome, unsound. — The present 
method of handling alien property in the United States ignores all of the lessons 
which should have been learned in the last war. It is both cumbersome and 
haphazard, and unless corrected will lead to a multitude of vexations and unneces- 
sary legal complications. A portion of the problem is the concern of the War 
Department; another portion that of the Treasury; the status of individuals, 
which is the very base upon which the Government must rest its case for seizure, 
is in the hands of the Department of Justice. 

The result is what might be expected; what is everyone's business is no one's 
business. Property has been taken without legal sanction; there has been no 
valid determination of enemy status, no valid demand for property within the 
requirements of our basic law, and no valid service of demand to surrender the 
enemy property upon either the alien or upon the person or corporation in control 
of the enemy property. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11841 

Reasons behind the present policy of the Govermneni. — The reasons behind the 
present confused pohcy of the Government are not known but may be surmised. 

First, the record of the Ahen Property Custodians during and after the last war 
was not a happy one. The first Custodian was severely criticized after the war 
in a number of litigated cases. Another Custodian went to jail for malfeasance 
in office. 

In the very natural reaction which followed the war, the courts were not hesitant 
in rebuking the Custodian, or his authorized representatives, for invasions of the 
rights of individuals, for hasty seizures, and for acts in excess of power. Acts, 
which in the emergency of war, seemed essential, were judged Ijy standards which 
prevail in times of peace. The Congress, and the courts as well, reflected the pre- 
vailing view of the people that, wherever possible, the property seized by the 
Government under war power, should be returned. Thus, the office of the Alien 
Property Custodian was given a reputation which reflection and study does not 
justify. 

The second reason for the present policy of the Government may perhaps be 
found in the natural struggle for power between the various agencies of the 
e.xecutive branch of the Government. While this struggle is understandable, it is 
not excusable in time of war. 

The Trading With the Enemy Act should he utilized. — To those who have studied 
the problem it is clear that, despite all of the criticism (much of which was ju.sti- 
fied), the Trading With the Enemy Act furnishes the precedent which should be 
followed in this war. The act is still in force. There is a vast body of law 
interpreting and clarifying what may be done under the act. The procedures set 
up in the act are forthright, simple, and intelligible. It is designed to thwart the 
enem^' in the use of enemy property and at the same time to safeguard the indi- 
vidual from abuse of his rights by confiscatory and arbitrary acts of Government. 
It makes certain that enemy property, upon proper executive determination, 
demand and service of demand shall be in the hands of the Government for both 
custody and use. And, it provides swift relief where a seizure is not justified, as in 
the case of one wrongly determined to be an enemy. 

Criticism has been of the Alien Property Custodian not of the act. — The criticism, 
then, of the Alien Property Custodian in the last war was just that, and no more 
than that. It was criticism of the individuals who held the office. It did not 
go to the Trading with the Enemy Act itself. That statute has had the approval 
of practically every Federal court in the country, and the intelligent and searching 
scrutiny of such distinguished judges as District Judge Learned Hand, Mr. 
Justice Holmes, and ^Ir. Justice Brandeis. There is painstaking comment on the 
act in every major law periodical in America; careful comparisons of the Trading 
with the Enemy Act in the United States and the operations of the similar office 
of Treuhander in Germany, and of similar offices in other nations. 

In short, the statute is in force, was found workable in the last war, and a vast 
body of supporting law, both national and international, has been built around it. 

This latter point is important to stress, because of the tough days ahead when 
peace comes. Then, of course, by international agreement, the nations will try 
to adjust and to settle the questions which inevitably arise in such times as these. 

If, at that time, we have gone forward under a statute which has met the tests 
of all courts, the adjustments and settlements will be comparatively simple. 

If, on the contrary, we persist in a policy which has no substantial support in 
law; if, as well, a multitude of Government agencies attempt simultaneously to 
handle the problem, we must expect what we will get — confusion, and many 
vexatious legal questions, the determination of which will take years of litigation. 

And so, it seems plain that the first thing to do is to appoint an Alien Property 
Custodian — naturally some one of complete integrity — in complete charge .of 
alien property; and to appoint him under the Trading with the Enemj^ Act, 
making such amendments to the act as may be necessary. 

What the act provides. — Just what does the act provide? 

The rules of the common law make unlawful commercial intercourse with the 
enemy in time of war. 

But apparently noncommercial intercourse is not forbidden. 

The purpose and effect of the Trading with the Enemy Act was to define and 
make more certain just what acts were forbidden and to extend the prohibition 
against intercourse so as to cover communications or dealings noncommercial as 
well as commercial. The provisions of the act dealing with the seizure and dis- 
position of enemy property constitute only a portion of the act. 

Section 2 of the Trading with the Enemy Act defines the term "enemy." 



11842 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Primarily, this status depends not upon citizenship or nationahty but upon 
residence within enemy territory. 

The President was authorized by proclamation to place other individuals or 
classes of individuals who might be citizens or subjects of an enemy nation within 
the term "enemy"; and under this authority the term "enemy" was broadened 
so as to include certain citizens of Germany and Austria resident outside of Ger- 
many. (See proclamations of February 5, 1918; May 31, 1918; August 10, 1918; 
November 29, 1918.) Similar proclamations affecting other enemy nations would 
probably be necessary today. 

Section 6 created the office of Alien Property Custodian and provided that h 
should be "empowered to receive all money and property in the United States 
due or belonging to any enemy or ally of enemy which may be paid, conveyed, 
transferred, assigned, or delivered to said Custodian under the provisions of this 
act; and to hold, administer, and account for the same under the general direction 
of the President and as provided in this act." 

Section 7 provided for the seizure or capture of enemy propert.y. 

Reports to the Alien Property Custodian were required to be made by cor- 
porations and individuals having custody or control of enemy property or who 
were indebted to enemies; and the President was authorized to require the pay- 
ment and delivery to the Custodian of all money and property which, after 
investigation, he should determine to be enemy owned. 

By various Executive orders this power was exercised by the President through 
the Alien Propertv Custodian. (See Executive orders of October 12, 1917; 
October 29, 1917; February 5, 1918; February 26, 1918; and December 3, 1918.) 

Section 9 set up h procedure whereby any person, not an enemy, claiming any 
right, title, or interest in any yiroperty seized by the Custodian, or to whom 
there might be owing a debt by an enemy whose property has been seized, might 
file with the Custodian notice in writing of his claim, and thereafter seciire relief, 
either by order of the President, or by judicial proceeding in one of the district 
courts of the United States, and later, by amendment, in the Supreme Court of 
the District of Columbia. 

Section 12 defines the powers and authority of the Alien Property Custodian. 
The fourth paragraph of this section is the one which confers upon the Custodian 
whatever powers of sale he has; and the extent of, and limitations upon, these 
powers of sale, as conferred bv this section and the amendment approved March 
28, 1918. 

The last ]:)aragraph of this section provided that "after the end of the war, 
any claini of any enemy or of an ally of enemy to any money or other property 
received and held by the Alien Property Custodian or deposited in the United 
States Treasury shall be settled as Congress shall direct." 

The act provides a complete plan for dealing ivith enemy property. — The act 
provides a complete plan for dealing with the enemy property subject to its terms 
in three separate and distinct steps or phases. 

First. It provides for a seizure of enemy property upon proper determination, 
demand, and service. This was an exercise of the war power of Congress. 

Second. It provides for the administration of the property while in custody. 
As an incident of administration, it authorizes a sale of the property, and the 
deposit of the proceeds in the Treasury to be invested in Liberty bonds. 

This involved no exercise of the war power, since there was no disposition of 
the beneficial interest, but only a sale or conversion of the property into its legal 
equivalent in money or other property to be held in its stead. This involved 
only the internal operations of the Government by the officers of the Government. 

Third. The final disposition of the property or the proceeds, if sold, after the 
w^r. This was expressly reserved by the provisions of section 12 for the future 
action ot Congress. 

The act was in many respects a departure from previous legislation. — Insofar as 
this act affected enemy property, it was in many respects a departure from all 
previous similar legislation in the United States. 

In the past, the private property of individual enemies, outside of the zone of 
military operations, had been either seized and confiscated (as in the Civil War) 
or else has been left untouched. 

This act authorizes the seizure or capture with certain formalities which were 
required and observed, of all property, including debts, situated within the terri- 
torial jurisdiction of the United States, but expressly provided that its ultimate or 
final disposition after the war was left for future determination by the Congress. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11843 

In the meantime, the property taken was to be held, managed, and administered 
by the Custodian and finally accounted for by him as provided in the act, and as 
might be directed by subsequent legislation. 

The capture or seizure, however, affected only possession, as was pointed by 
Mr. Justice Holmes in the case of Central Union Trust Company v. Garvan, 254 
U. S. 554, 566-569. 

Thereafter any person not an enemy asserting anj'^ claim to the propertj^ might 
file a claim and, if necessary, institute suit in equity for a judicial determination 
of his right; and in such event the property is required to be held until the final 
determination thereon. 

Neither the Alien Property Custodian nor the United States, acting through 
any other official is required to institute any affirmative judicial proceeding 
looking to condemnation of the property; but by the act as originally passed all 
nonenemy claims not filed within 6 months after the termination of the war were 
barred. 

Enemy claims were left to disposition by Congress. 

This procedure is appropriate for an act whicla has as its purpose merely the 
sequestration and conservation of property which belonged to the enemy or was 
supposed so to belong. In connection with the appropriate provision of section 
12, that final disposition of the property is to be determined by Congress after 
the war, this procedure clearly and unmistakably stamped the act in the main 
as a sequestration measure, having for its purpose the conservation of the prop- 
erty during the war, for such disposition as Congress might determine after the 
war, but not any confiscation. 

This view is sustained by the reports of congressional committtes at the time 
of its enactment. (Report No. 85 to accompany H. R. 4960, House of Repre- 
sentatives, 65th Cong., 1st sess.) 

Hearing before a subcommittee of the Committee on Commerce, United States 
Senate, Sixty-fifth Congress, first session, on H. R. 4960, pages 131.132. 

Senate Reports Nos. Ill and 113, Sixty-fifth Congress, first session, to accom- 
pany H. R. 4960. 

In Senate Reports Nos. Ill and 113 at page 9, the theory of the act is concisely 
stated as follows: 

"While the theory on which the bill is drafted is that enemy property shall be 
protected and utilized, but not confiscated, the ultimate disposition of the enemy 
property received and held by the Government is left entirely to Congress, and 
provision is made that after the end of the war enemy claims to such property 
'shall be settled as Congress shall direct.' " 

On November 14, 1917, shortly after Mr. A. Mitchell Palmer was appointed 
Alien Property Custodian, he issued an official statement, approved by the 
President, in which he so characterized the act. This statement, which appeared 
in the Official Bulletin of that date, says: 

"The board purpose of Congress, as expressed in the Trading with the Enemy 
Act, is, first, to preserve enemj^-owned propertj' situated in the United States 
from loss and, secondly, to prevent every use of it which may be hostile or detri- 
mental to the United States * * *_ -ji^e property of every person under 
legal disability is in every civilized country protected by the appointment of 
trustees or conservators, whose duty it is to administer and care for the property 
while' the disability exists. This is the duty of the Alien Property Custodian. 
He is charged by law with the duty of protecting the pioperty of all owners who 
are under legal disability to act for themselves whik a state of war continues 
* * *. Thus the probable waste and loss of a great deal of valuable property 
and property rights which could not, while the war continues, be conserved by 
the enemy owner is avoided, and a trustee, appointed and paid by the United 
States, is charged with the duty of protecting anc caring for such property until 
the end of the war. This is his function. There is, of course, no thought of the 
confiscation or dissipation of the property thus held in trust." 

The first amendment to the Trading with the Enemy Act was passed as a rider 
to the appropriation bill approved March 28, 1918 (40 Stat. 459). This amends 
the fourth paragraph of section 12, which, as above noted, specifies and defines 
the nature and extent of the powers of administration, management, sale, and 
disposition of property by the Custodian. 

This amendment did not effect a complete change in the nature and purpose 
of the Trading with the Enemy Act or give to the Custodian a power of disposi- 
tion as broad as that of an abolute owner, subject to no limitations or restrictions. 

Both the language of the amendment, taken in connection with the act as a 
whole, and the discussions of the amendment in Congress insofar as they may 



11844 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

properly be taken into consideration, support the view that the purpose and effect 
of this amendment was to allow the Custodian during custod}^ awaiting final 
action bv Congress to sell at fair value to American citizens or to others, at 
public auction and to the highest bidder, if the President should so determine, 
any of the properties in his possession or control. This put the title and use of the 
property in American hands, substituting in the Treasury of the United States 
its equivalent in money. The nature of the statute was not changed. It re- 
mained and still is an act of sequestration and custody, with the power of sale 
which is common in such trusts, pending action by Congress for the final disposi- 
tion of the property or its proceeds. 

The next amendment is that of July 1, 1918, passed as a rider to the appro- 
priation bill of that date (40 Stat. 645), which provides in effect that all taxes 
assessed "by any body politic" against money or property held by the Custodian 
shall be paid out of such money or property, or if that is not sufficient, out of 
other moneys of the same enemy. 

This amendment is in accord with the purpose and intent of the original act as 
it directs the treatment of the property insofar as taxes are concerned upon the 
same basis as if no seizure had been made. In other words, it recognizes that 
there has been no confiscation or forfeiture of the rights of the enemy in seized 
property. 

Doubts were raised at one time as to whether the Custodian could pass to his 
vendee a good title. 

In many cases the certificates representing the shares of stock which were 
supposed to be enemy-owned, were abroad, or at least not in the possession of the 
Custodian, and the corporations which had issued these outstanding certificates 
objected and refused to issue new certificates without surrender of those out- 
standing. 

Furthermore, attorneys representing possible purchasers made the point that the 
statute authorized the seizure of enemy-owned property only, and, therefore, 
that the Custodian could not sell all property which had been seized, but only 
such property or such interests in property as in fact, were enemy-owned. Assign- 
ments and transfers, good as between the parties, could be made without delivery 
either of the property or the shares of stock or other instruments representing the 
property, and it was', of course, impossible to tell with' certainty how much of the 
property offered for sale by the Custodian might have been transferred prior to the 
declaration of war from the enemy owners to bona fide purchasers, either American 
citizens or allies or neutrals. 

The decisions under the Civil War Acts of 1861 and 18G2 holding that sales 
under those acts, analogous to a sheriff's sale, passed only the right, title, and 
interest of the enemy gave a foundation for this doubt. 

The amendment of November 4, 1918, was intended to remedy this situation 
(40 Stat. 1020). 

In considering the interpretation to be placed upon the power of sale given by 
section 12, we should note that the powers of sale and disposition are not limited 
to property which is in fact enemy property, or which has been determined by 
any judicial proceeding so to be, but apply to all property conveyed and delivered 
to "the Custodian, and even to property which has been only required so to be. 
The substitution of the fair value in place of the property itself and the limitation 
of all claims, nonenemy as well as enemy, thereto, may be sustained, just as in the 
case of a judicial sale. 

But if the Custodian could deliberately dispose of property for any considera- 
tion he thought fit even to the extent of giving it away, it is difficult to reconcile 
with the modern idea of constitutional procedure the provision of this amendment 
requiring nonenemy claimants, who might well be American citizens, to accept 
whatever money or"property the Custodian might thus arbitrarily substitute for 
the property seized. This would, as to American citizens not having an enemy 
status, be plain confiscation in violation of the fifth amendment of the United 
States Constitution. 

Throughout all of the amendments to the act that clause of section 12 which 
states that after the termination of the war the claim of every enemy shall be 
disposed of as Congress shall hereafter determine has remained unchanged and in 
full force and effect; and the money and property now held by the Custodian or 
deposited in the Treasury of the United States belonging to citizens and subjects 
of Germany, Au.stria, and Hungary, is required still to be held, managed, and 
administered until Congress shall legislate further; except insofar as the release 
and return has been authorized by the provisions of section 9 as from time to 
time amended. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11845 

Insofar as legal right or power is concerned, Congress can make any disposition 
thereof which it may deem wise. 

The property may be held as it now stands or all or any portion of it may be 
liquidated and converted into cash and held in the shape of money or Government 
bonds. Either all or any part of it may, at any time, be released and returned 
without limitation or qualification or subject to any limitations or conditions as 
Congress may see fit to impose. 

The first purpose of this act was the sequestration and conservation of all 
enemy property during the war, with power expressly reserved in Congress to 
make disposition thereof after the war. This purpose was in accord with the 
spirit in which we fought the war, so often and ably expressed by President 
Wilson. 

The change of policy with respect to sale of enemy property embodied in the 
amendment of March 1918, did not change the pohcy of conservation, but only 
authorized a conversion of property into cash while in custody, reserving to 
Congress the determination after the war of all questions as to final disposition. 

It became the policy of Congress to eliminate German ownership of the large 
industrial properties of the country, to put those properties in American hands 
and render them available for the urgent needs of war. 

Similarly in this war, it should be the policy of Congress to eliminate enemy 
ownership of properties essential to the prosecution of the war, and to get those 
properties into American hands. 

This policy could, and was intended to be fully carried out, and this purpose 
completely accomplished by a fair sale of the property to American citizens, 
and the substitution therefor of its fair equivalent in cash in the hands of the 
Treasurer of the United States. 

This cash was then to be invested in Liberty bonds, and thus made available 
for war purposes, and these bonds were by the terms of the act to be held to 
await the final action of Congress after the war was over. 

Section 12 of the act as amended gives a clear and definite procedure, ^in [com- 
plete accord with the underlying purpose of the act as a whole. 

The powers given by this section are conferred directly upon the Custodian, 
to be exercised by him under the supervision and direction of the President, and 
in accordance with such rules and regulations as the President might prescribe. 

The Custodian is first given power to take custody of, hold, and manage the 
property, with all of the powers of a "common law trustee." It may be observed 
that the Custodian, being a public officer, and charged with the possession and 
management of property owned by and held for the benefit of others (it matters 
not whom), was by virtue of his position and duties a fiduciary or trustee. The 
use of the word "trustee" was not necessary to make him a fiduciary, subject to 
all of the familiar duties and obligations of an ordinary trustee. It merely gave 
him the express powers of that position. The limitations incident thereto arise 
by operation of law. 

' What are the powers of a "common law trustee"? Assuming that this means an 
ordinary trustee in equity vested with possession and management of property 
such a trustee has the power and is by law charged with the duty to conserve the 
estate and the power of sale, if any, can only be exercised where clearly necessary 
to this end. These limitations imposed by law upon an ordinary trustee made 
necessary additional language conferring additional powers in order to enable the 
Custodian effectively to discharge his duties both under this section as originally 
enacted and as amended in March 1918. The section as amended therefore 
provides that the Custodian "in addition thereto, acting under the supervision and 
direction of the President, and under such rules and regulations as the President 
shall prescribe, shall have the power to manage such property and do any act or 
things in respect thereof or make any disposition thereof or any part thereof, by 
sale of otherwise, and exercise any rights or powers which may be or become 
appurtenant thereto, or the ownership thereof in like manner as though he were the 
absolute owner thereof." 

Extent of enemy alien holdings unknown. — The size of enemy alien holdings is 
not known. But it may be assumed that such holdings are fairly extensive. 
If the Alien Property Custodian followed, in this war, the course followed in the 
last, he would appoint local depositaries who would be properly bonded, and 
who would discharge the duties imposed upon them by the Custodian under the 
act. 



11846 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

It might be wise, in order to prevent abuse, to make such appointments of local 
depositaries subject to confirmation by the United States district judges in the 
area in which they are appointed. 

During the last war, in areas remote from the seat of Government, the Cus- 
todian followed the practice of appointing (without legal sanction) local groups of 
advisers, with whom his local depositaries consulted before recommending on 
matters ot policj*. This was probably a wise course for the Custodian to follow, 
and should be considered again. 

CUSTODIAN 

After approximately 10 years of careful study of the operations of the Trading 
with the Enemy Act in the last war, it is my conclusion that, in the main, it met 
the tests laid down on November 14, 1917, by A. Mitchell Palmer with the ap- 
proval of President Wilson. 

It preserved, in the main, enemy-owned property situated in the United States. 

It prevented its use for purposes hostile or detrimental to the United States. 

It avoided, in the main, confiscation and dissipation. 

Of course, there were many cases of injustice, many instances of hasty action, 
many things done which, looking back after the war was over, we wish had not 
been done. 

But after all, war does not permit reflective judgment to the extent permitted 
in the consideration of a case in time of peace. 

War requires action, swift and summarj'. With that in mind, the fundamentals 
of the Trading with the Enemy Act are sound,'and the act should again be used. 



Exhibit 6. — Suspension of the Writ of Habeas Corpus^ 

REPORT BY H. MILES RASKOFF, BOALT HALL, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY, 

CALIF. 

The writ of habeas corpus is used to give immediate relief from any illegal con- 
finement. The writ is issued to an officer or a person detaining another and 
orders him to make a return thereon. During time of peace it is settled that the 
writ is available to aliens in deportation cases, either exclusion or expulsion. In 
these cases the scope of the review provided in habeas corpus proceedings has 
expanded so that in fact the writ serves as a writ of error over the administrative 
agency charged with the expulsion and exclusion of aliens. The court in deciding 
whether the writ should be granted inquires into the questions of whether there 
is any evidence to support the facts found by the administrative agency, and 
whether errors of law have been made. 

However, during time of war the scope of review is so narrowed in habeas 
corpus proceedings brought by an enemy alien who is detained by the military 
as to amount to almost no review whatsoever. Ex parte Graber, a case decided 
during the last war is typical (247 Fed. 882). Upon appHcation for habeas corpus 
by an enemy alien held by the Army, the court ordered the commanding officer 
to make a return. In the return the officer stated that the alien was held under 
authority of a Presidential proclamation and warrant. The court held that this 
return showed that the detention was lawful, and the writ was denied. The pro- 
priety of such a Presidential order during time of war was deemed to be a political 
question not subject to review by the courts. There are English cases in accord. 

Although the Graber case involved an alien enemy, there is nothing in the opinion 
that would limit the rule to that class of persons. What if an American citizen 
is held by the Army during wartime under Presidential warrant? Would a return 
stating these facts close the matter to the judiciary? The same reasoning might 
be followed to give an affirmative answer to this question. There is a possibility 
that a strong court might hold that the war power of the President does not 
extend that far, but this might lead to the practical question of how to force the 
Army to turn over the prisoner. 

The Constitution provides that "the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus 
shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public 
safety may require it." There had been some conflicting authority as to whether 
this provision gives the legislative or the executive departments power to suspend 
:he writ, but it now seems settled that only Congress has this power. Chief Justice 

• For further annotation on subject from historical viewpoint, see Annotated Cases, 1914 C, p. 30. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11847 

Taney boldly asserted this proposition in Ex parte Merryman in the face of the 
Army's refusal to obey his order to deliver a civilian prisoner before the Court, 
the prisoner being held under a Presidential order. So although Taney issued 
the writ of habeas corpus, the prisoner so "released" from his unlawful arrest 
remained in the custody of the Army. Taney, of course, realized that there was 
nothing more he could do to compel obedience to his order, so he did the next 
best thing. He sent a copy of his opinion to President Lincoln to point out to 
him that he (Lincoln) was acting in a unconstitutional manner. 

Taney was somewhat vindicated several years later when the Supreme Court 
in Ex parte Milligan expressed the view that although Congress had the power 
to suspend the writ, that it could only do so when because of rebellion or invat ion 
the courts are closed, and that it was unlawful for the military to arrest, try, and 
sentence a civiUan as long as the courts were open. The case is, therefore, 
authority for the proposition that it takes more than a rebellion, invasion, or a 
congressional or Presidential proclamation to constitutionally suspend the writ. 

This proposition might lend support to the contention of some writers that the 
constitutional provision dealing with the writ is not a delegation of power to 
Congress, but, rather, it is a restriction on the power of Congress. (See 25 
A. B. A. 375 and 46 W. Va. L. Q. 187 where statements of some of the members 
of the Constitutional Convention are cited.) In other words, although Congress 
is said to have complete control of the jurisdiction of the lower Federal courts, 
by operation of this section Congress cannot deprive a Federal court of jurisdic- 
tion to issue this writ. From the Milligan case it can be added that Congress 
may not simply because of invasion or rebellion suspend the writ, but it may 
only be suspended when the invasion or rebellion makes access to the courts 
impossible. 

It is extremely important to remem;ber that Ex parte Milligan was decided 
after the Civil War was over and that Milligan was held prisoner by the Army 
for 2 years before the Court decided that his detention was unlawful. Thus we 
find that when the Army during time of war makes arrests of civilians a Federal 
court can constitutionally on habeas corpus order the release of the prisoner, but 
practically — and perhaps constitutionally — the Army can refuse to obey because 
the prisoner is held under orders of the Commander in Chief. Certainly no 
court would care to test its power against that of the Army. Thus if during time 
of war the President as Commander in Chief of the armed forces authorizes the 
military to make arrests of civilians and he does not order the military to sur- 
render the civilians so detained on order of the judiciary, for all practical purposes 
the writ of habeas corpus is suspended. Taney realized that when his marshal 
made return saying that he was unable to execute the attachment for contempt 
against General Cadwalader, who had refused to turn over the prisoner Merry- 
man, that there was nothing more that could be done save to point out to the 
President the error of his ways. 

This very important practical difficulty has led some State courts and a few 
lower Federal courts to say that there is a distinction between the suspension of 
the privilege of the writ in a constitutional sense and the right of a military com- 
mander to refuse obedience to the writ. Some courts have gone so far as to say 
that the writ is automatically suspended during martial law. Such a conclusion 
is a long way from Ex parte Milligan, yet it seems to be much closer to reality 
than was the rule of that case. The courts of West Virginia have gone to the 
extreme in this regard. There it has been stated in several cases that the existence 
of martial law suspends all constitutional liberties. Although it may be within 
the power of the Army to suspend all constitutional liberties, it does not seem wise 
for a court to sanction such a practice by a positive rule of law. 

The view that the writ may be suspended in a manner not authorized by the 
Constitution has been severely criticized. Some writers have said that there is 
no such thing as martial law in the sense that the civil government is suspended 
because there is no constitutional basis therefor. These writers correctly cite 
the Milligan case for the principle that the Constitution was intended to apply 
to our Government at all times, during war as well as peace. On the other hand 
many cases recognize the existence of martial law. It has been stated by one 
judge that martial law is the law of the general limited only by his discretion, and 
that during its existence all other law is superseded. {In re Eagan, 8 Fed. Cases 
367) The far-reaching implications of such language in the opinions is usually 
qualified by the statement that martial law can only exist as long as the necessity 
therefor. It is interesting to note that United States military journals recognize 
the existence of martial law, and also of the possibility of refusing to obey orders 
of a Federal court upon authority of the Commander in Chief. 



11848 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

If the Milligan case is taken to mean what it says, when the Army refuses to 
surrender a civilian when ordered to do so by a court the detention is unlawful. 
What sanctions can be imposed to compel the Army to act in accordance with law? 
Certainly force can't be used. It has been suggested that after the war or tem- 
porary emergency which has given rise to the military action is over, that the 
person responsible for the detention would be liable in a civil action to the person 
detained. The Milligan opinion states that the suspension of the writ only 
suspends the privilege of the writ, and does not authorize arrests. If this is so, 
who would be liable for unlawful arrest? Not the soldier who made the arrest, 
because he was acting under orders from his superior. For the same reason the 
general who ordered the particular arrest is not liable; he was acting under orders 
of his superior, the President of the United States. Therefore, the responsible 
person would be the President. 

It is unlikely, however, that any court would hold the President so liable. 
There are no cases on the point, but perhaps cases growing out of arrests made by 
the State militia during local disturbances might be analogous. Such cases 
are not strictly in point because they involve the use of a different power. That 
is the reserved power of a State to maintain law and order. During time of war, 
however, it is the constitutional war power of the President that is involved. 
Moyer v. Peabody (212 U. S. 19) involved the civil liability of the Governor of 
Colorado for an illegal arrest growing out of his calling out the State nlilitia during 
a coal strike. It was there held that the Governor of a State has the duty to main- 
law and order, and in cases of insurrection he may properly call out the State 
militia. Whether an insurrection in fact existed was said to be anolitical question, 
and the Governor's decision was not deemed subject to judicial review (citing 
Luther v. Borden). The only question which may be looked into by the court is the 
good faith of the Governor. From this case it would seem likely that the Presi- 
dent's act in ordering the arrest of civilians during wartime would also be a political 
question not subject to judicial review, and hence there would be no civil liability. 

The unfortunate conclusion from all this is that during time of war if the 
President in his capacity as Commander in Chief of the armed foices orders 
civilians arrested by the Army and states that as to these prisoners the writ of 
habeas corpus is suspended, there is nothing that can be done about it by the 
courts. Furthermore, if he acted in good faith he i-^ not even liable in damages 
to persons so detained. This would apply to citizens as well as alir-ns. 

There can be an argument made that this is not extraconstitutional, but that 
it is merely an exercise of the constitutional authority of the President as Com- 
mander in Chief of the Army and Navy during time of war. The only limitation 
on this power is necessity, but, of course, what is a necessity is a political question. 
A judge of the West Virginia Appellate Court in a recent article favors this view, 
contending that during time of war governmental action should not be burdened 
with constitutional restrictions. He concludes, "In this world of arms, constitu- 
tional civil rights will endure only if protected by arms. The constitutional 
authority of the United States Government to wage war being unrestricted, im- 
plies the full use of the war power. That power is the power of necessity, than 
which none is greater. What necessity requires it justifies. Wherefore, not only 
upon the actual theater of war, but wherever an emergency of war arises, the 
violation of every civil constitutional right impeding the war power is justified 
if necessary. At peace civil law should be absolute; at war martial rule, wherever 
necessary, must be absolute" (1939 — 25 A. B. A. 375). 

This statement is patently an apologetic rationalization for a particular point 
of view. However, as has been pointed out, no court is in a position to question 
the authority of the armed forces. The only safeguard possible is to indoctrinate 
the members of the armed forces, the officers, and the Commander in Chief with 
an awareness of their great responsibility to guard constitutional rights, to pro- 
ceed with caution, and to act summarily only in cases of the strictest necessity. 

Exhibit 7. — Statement by C. Huntington Jacobs, President, 
THE Military Law Association, Mills Tower, San Francisco 

March 10, 1942. 

The Military Law Association, which I represent as its president, very gladly 
complies with the courteous request of your counsel, Leonard A. Thomas, Esq., 
in his letter of February 28, 1942, for a statement "as to how and under what 
conditions martial law might be declared, what are its implications insofar as 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION" 11849 

civilian activities and judicial processes are concerned, and more particularlj^ 
just what the recent Executive order of the President does mean." 

As most of our two-hundred-sixty-odd members (attorneys, judges, and active 
and retired officers of the Judge Advocate General's Department and other de- 
partments of the Army and Navy) are presently on this coast or within the Pacific 
area, where martial law has been in effect, as in Hawaii, or imminently in prospect 
ever since December 7, 1941, this subject has naturally engaged the close attention 
of this association. 

In the light of our education during World War No. I and during the present war, 
in the rapidity, scope, and power of modern total attack and the requirements of 
total defense, the best of all authoritative definitions of martial law is probably 
the one presented bv the Supreme Court of the United States in U. S. v. Diekel- 
man, 1875, 2 Otto 92 U. S. 520; 23 L. Ed. 742, 745: 

•'The law by which the city and port" (of New Orleans) "were governed was 
martial law. * * * Martial law is the law of military necessity in the actual 
presence of war. It is administered by the general of the Army and is, in fact, his. 
will. Of necessity, it is arbitrary, but it must be obeyed." 

As was said by Mr. Chief Justice Chase, of that Court, in a specially concurring 
opinion rendered by four of its justices in the Milligan case, 1866, 4 Wall. 71 U. S. 
2, 18 L. Ed. 281, martial law "is called into action by Congress, or temporarily 
when the action of Congress cannot be invited and in the case of justifying or 
excusing peril, by the President, in times of insurrection or invasion, or of civil or 
foreign war, within districts or localities where ordinary law no longer adequately 
secures public safety and private rights." 

Whether the present situation on this coast is of that nature is a question which 
should, in our view, be determined by Congress upon the advice of the military 
authorities responsible for its defense and in the light of the fact, so often and 
sadh' demonstrated of late, that after the assault of a modern enemy has been 
delivered from within, without, and overhead, the necessity for martial law within 
the assaulted area is likely to assume a purely historical importance. 

The strange view that a declaration of martial law, however necessary to the 
preparation of a total defense against such an assault, must legally await the onset 
thereof, does not command this association's respect or assent; being perfectly 
impractical and unsupported by any authority binding on either Congress or the 
President. 

That view appears to us to rest almost or quite exclusively upon the gratuitous 
dicta of five justices of the Supreme Court, uttered in 1866 in the Milligan case 
above noted. From that dicta four Justices, who concurred in the result and in 
all the reasoning essential to the result, strongly dissented in the specially concur- 
ring opinion quoted above. The case, in fact, did not involve any proclamation 
by the President which pruported to declare martial law within any specific area 
of the United States, nor any act of Congress which purported to make, ratify, or 
authorize any such declaration at all. The only statute which it did involve 
plainly required the discharge of the civilian prisoner from the custody of the 
military authorities and that statute was unanimously upheld and enforced. 

SUPREME COURT DECISIONS 

Three subsequent decisions of the Supreme Court (the Grapeshot v. Wallerstein, 
1869, 9 Wall. 76 U. S. 129, 19 L. Ed. 651; Burke v. Miltonburger, 1874, 19 Wall. 
86 U. S. 519, 22 L. Ed. 158; Mechanics, etc. Bank v. Union Bank of La., 1874, 22 
Wall. 89 U. S. 276, 22 L. Ed. 871) involved and unanimously upheld the power 
of Congress to ratify the acts of the President and his commander. General Butler, 
in constituting the so-called provisional court of Louisiana, and in appointing 
the civilian judge of that military tribunal, in the city and port of New Orleans 
and the territory svuTounding them, and under the conditions of martial law to 
which the court referred in the above-quoted decision in the Diekelman case. At 
that time, about 1862, the affected area was occupied by the Federal Army after 
recapture from the Confederate belligerants, and while it was still imminently 
threatened by them. In our view, the distinction between the status of United 
States territory occupied by United States forces for the purpose of preventing its 
capture by hostile belligerents, and the status of the same territory occupied by 
the same forces for the same purpose after expulsion therefrom of the hostile 
belligerents, is shadowy at most, and thinly cloaks the departure which those 
decisions involve from the reasoning of the majority dicta in the Milligan case. 
For that reasoning was, that the Constitution conferred no power upon either the 
President or Congress to declare martial law except within an area where actual 



11850 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

invasion or flagrant insurrection by the public enemy had already closed the 
civilian courts. That had occurred in Louisiana; yet it was possible there to 
create a "provisional" court vested with jurisdiction over civilians in civil and 
criminal matters, including admiralty cases, whose judgments were subsequently 
accorded by act of Congress the same status as judgments of a United States 
Circuit Court; and the statute according that recognition was unanimously 
sustained. 

We think it is high time that the majority dicta in the Milligan case, thus super- 
seded by subsequent decisions and methods of war unknown to the Justices of 
1866, should cease to be considered even persuasive; and that the United States 
should be acknowledged to possess the same right freely exercised by every other 
sovereignty, of employing martial law in advance of an imminently threatened 
attack, as a means of coordinating all the resources of the threatened area under 
a unified and absolute military control. 

We find that right implicit in the power to declare war, which section 8 of 
article I of the Federal Constitution confers upon Congress. The latter power 
has, of course, been held to include power to prosecute war "by all means" 
{Miller v. U. S., 11 Wall. 79 U. S. 268, 20 L. Ed. 595; Tenn. Elec. Poiver Co. v. 
T. V. A., D. Tenn., 21 Fed. Supp. 947; afTd. 306 U. S. 118, 83 L. Ed. 543). The 
prosecution of a war cannot, alas, be limited to offensive action. It must also 
often include the provision of an adequate defense against tne enemy's attack; 
and certainly one of the oldest and most widely recognized means of preparing 
to resist an attack is the institution of absolute military control over all military 
and civilian resources within the threatened area. 

MILITARY CONTROL 

The respective results of the presence and absence of such control during prepa- 
ration against an attack have lately been illustrated by the Russian and Malayan 
campaigns. Recent instances in which the value of such control as a measure of 
precaution has been recognized, may also be found in Turkey and Hawaii. The 
Republic of Turkey has not yet been attacked, but its threatened provinces are, 
and have long been, under martial law. The raid on our Territory of Hawaii 
was scarcely an invasion, and did not prevent the civiUan courts from functioning. 
By military sufferapce, they are still open to civil causes. But on December 7, 
1941, the Governor of the Territory exercised his power under the Organic Act 
to declare martial law and to call upon the United States Army for defense: and 
the civilians of Hawaii still remain subject to absolute military control, including 
trial by military tribunal for all criminal offenses, because the Territory still 
remains under the imminent threat of renewed assault. Doubtless, the residents 
of Manila would be willing to pay the same price for the same benefit. 

Since the defense of the Nation is the paramount duty and concern of itself and 
its citizens, we believe Mr. Chief Justice Chase very exactly stated the law in 
this regard when he said in the Milligan case: 

"We by no means assert that Congress can establish and apply the laws of war 
where no war has been declared or exists. Where peace exists the laws of peace 
must prevail. What we do maintain is that when the Nation is involved in war, 
and some portions of the country are invaded and all are exposed to invasion, it 
is within the power of Congress to determine in what States or districts such great 
and imminent public danger exists as justifies the authorization of military 
tribunals for the trial of crimes and offenses against the discipline or security of 
the Army or for the public safety." 

We also think that the greatness and immediacy of the danger, and the conse- 
quent need of martial law as a measure of defense in advance of its onset, cannot 
logically, and need not legally, be gaged by civil war standards, but may and should 
be appraised in the light of the secrecy and rapidity with which a modern assault 
may be prepared and launched and of the devastation it may cause unless encoun- 
tered by a fully coordinated military and civilian defense under absolute military 
command. 

OPERATION OF MARTIAL LAW 

The institution, however, of martial law is certainly a measure of the utmost 
gravity. Within the affected area it supersedes, while in force, every other author- 
ity than the will of the military commander. 

Of course his will, in turn, is governed by his orders from higher authority — 
including the civilian Commander in Chief, and by the customs of his service and 
the laws of war which forbid any and all severity in excess of such as the discipline 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11851 

and security of his forces, the defense of the area, the control and protection of the 
civilian population, and, in general, the accomplishment of his mission, require. 
Of course, too, any legal invalidity in the basis of the imposition of martial law, 
and any excess of authority, plainly beyond the reasonable requirements of the 
situation as they appeared at the time, may subject the commander to legal 
liability, which maj^ be enforced against him personally after the emergency has 
passed and the civilian courts have been reestablished. 

But during the continuance of martial law, the constitutional guaranties are in 
abeyance. The courts are closed or function only at the commander's pleasure. 
He is not legally at liberty to dictate their decisions, custom and propriety forbid; 
but he may prevent them or may disregard them. All other civilian institutions, 
public or private, and their personnel, are brought within his control to such extent 
as he deems requisite — especially, of course, those whose functions relate to the 
defense of the area; and any civilians within the area whose presence he deems 
dangerous or otherwise undesirable from a military point of view are, if and when 
he so directs, held in preventative arrest or expelled, whether they be aliens or 
citizens of the United States, from the area, or moved to other locations within it. 

Persons, not members of the military or naval service of the United States, who 
are accused of military crimes, such as the violation of his orders and regulations 
or of the laws of war (which of course prohibit spying, sabotage, and all other 
fifth column activities) are tried by such military tribunals, usually military com- 
missions and provost courts, as he may constitute for that purpose. He may also, 
as was done in Hawaii, vest in such tribunals jurisdiction over all acts or omissions 
which do or normally would constitute violations of the Federal and other laws 
normally operative in that area, and which were committed within that area 
after the inception of martial law ; or over such of those acts or omissions as he may 
deem to possess any military significance. Having plenary jurisdiction himself; 
he may delegate to these tribunals such power to punish as he pleases. Almost 
invariably, however, he will reserve to himself power to review more serious 
sentences before they take effect. 

Such is the law of military necessity when imposed upon civilians in friendly 
areas. To designate it, the term "martial rule" is more apt, though less in use, 
than "martial law"; for it is not "law" at all in any civilian sense, but temporary 
dictatorship; the one sufficient merit of which is, from any civilian point of view, 
that in time of war it minimizes the risk of losing to the enemy the affected area 
and its civilian laws and courts together. 

POWER OP THE PRESIDENT TO DECLARE MARTIAL LAW 

Has the President power, unless authorized by Congress, to employ this drastic 
expedient in time of war? We think that he has, but only to the extent, as 
stated by Mr. Chief Justice Chase, of imposing martial law temporarily when the 
danger is sufficiently great and imminent to justify it and the action of Congress 
cannot be invited. That much power, we think, is implicit in his functions in 
wartime as Commander in Chief, under section 2 of article II of the Federal Con- 
stitution; but probably no more, because Congress is the heir to the traditions of 
parliament, which is the traditional guardian of Magna Carta, and it is not 
likely the States which ratified the Bill of Rights intended they should be sub- 
ordinated for any extended period to the law of military necessity, even in war- 
time, without a determination by Congress or an authorization by Congress to 
the President or to his general to determine, that it must be so in aid of the 
defense of the realm. 

It has been argued that by authorizing the Federal Government to suspend 
the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus, section 9 of article I of the Constitu- 
tion confers on the President as well as Congress a right which amounts in sub- 
stance to the power to declare martial law; but so far as we know that argument 
has been consistently rejected, as it was in the Milligan case, because such a sus- 
pension merely guards against abuse of that privilege in times of stress, to the 
embarrassment of the courts and other civilian authorities, and does not subject 
the latter themselves or anv civilian to military control. 

Those statutes such as R. S., sees. 5297-5299 (50 U. S. C. 201-203) and 35 
Statutes 400 (32 U. S. C. 81a), which authorize the employment of Federal troops 
to suppress domestic disturbances or repel invasion, likewise suggest no intent to 
produce or authorize the President to produce, even temporarily, that absolute 
subordination of civilian citizens to military control which is of the essence of 
martial law. Indeed, we know of no act of Congress now in effect which can be 
construed as conferring such authority on the President; and as long as Congress 



11852 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

remains in session, so that its action can be invited, we therefore doubt that the 
President could legally employ that measure or authorize his general to do so, 
without the express sanction of Congress — however urgently necessary in fact 
such absolute military control might be or become to the defense of this coast. 

CONGRESSIONAL ACTION REQUIRED 

With all deference, we therefore feel bound to urge immediate and decisive 
action by Congress, so that no doubt need at any time exist to induce hesitation 
on the part of the Commander in Chief or his general, regarding the legality of 
that measure, if pressure of military necessity should impel its adoption. 

We do not ignore the legal possibility of action by the legislatures and Governors 
of the several States exposed, but we regard that possibility as purely academic. 
Unlike the Territory of Hawaii, those States are individually sovereign ; but they 
are so numerous and so nearly devoid of armed force of their own that any declar- 
ation of martial law by them, even if all of them should concur in declaring it, 
would have to be followed by appeals to the Federal sovereignty to supply the 
means of maintaining it. The confusion and conflict of authority which might 
easily ensue would tend to defeat the only proper object of such a measure, that 
is to say, unity of command over all activities and all resources within the 
threatened area. There is no practical alternative, we think, to action by 
Congress. 

In taking such action, we also respectfully suggest the wisdom of enabling the 
commanding general of any area over which martial law may be imposed to avail 
himself of the services of qualified civilians, that is to say, of civilian judges and 
attornevs versed in the subject of military law — by appointing them as part of 
the personnel engaged in administering military justice over civilians throughout 
that area. Such personnel includes the members of military commissions, their 
trial judge advocates and defense coimsel, and such authorities as the commander 
may constitute to review their decisions and those of his provost courts. The 
numerous and substantial benefits likely to flow from such use of properly qualified 
civilians are very apparent. Perhaps the most important are that it will permit 
a quite considerable conservation of officer personnel; will facilitate accurate 
appraisal of civilian acts and motives; and will quiet the natural apprehensions 
of civilians confronted with an unfamiliar and supposedly rigorous system of 
criminal justice. Actually, of course, that system is designed to secure celerity 
without the slightest inattention to proper protection of the accused, and when 
this is discovered, as it will be under the administration of any such commander 
as we now have on this coast, such civilian apprehensions will quiet themselves. 
But any reassurance which can be afforded at the outset is likely to prove advisable 
as a tonic to civilian morale — so long as it docs not impair the efficiency of that 
system of justice or the discipline which the latter conserves. 

USE OF CIVILIANS 

The only legal obstruction to such use of civilians is, we believe, the following 
provision i'n P. S. 3679 (31 U. S. C. 665): 

"* * * Nor shall any department or any officer of the Government accept 
voluntary service for the Government or employ personal service in excess of 
that authorized by law, except in cases of sudden emergency involving the loss 
of h(nnan life or the destruction of propertv." 

The addition to that s?ntence of the words, "and excepting in time of war, 
the Armv, the Navy, and their respective officers," would remove that obstruc- 
tion, and would enable the Army and Xavy at their need and pleasure, to avail 
themselves of the voluntary services which many civilians, including the civilian 
members of this association, would gladly tender to them in such crises as this. 

The use of civilian lawyers as members of military tribunals having jurisdiction 
over civilians is not altogether novel. The api)ointment sustained by the Su- 
preme Court in Mechanics', etc. Bank v. Union Bank of Louisiana, mentioned 
above, is an instane > in point. Other and similar instances are noted by Winthrop 
(iMilitarv Law and Precedents, p. S35); but until the present war it was still ac- 
curate to say as Colonel Winthrop did at the page just cited, that "military 
commissions" (eo nomine) had invariably been composed of commissioned ofl^icers, 
although "strictly legally, they might be composed otherwise should the com- 
mander will it — as, for exampl:^ in part of civilians or of enlisted men.' 

But on the day of the Pearl Harbor attack the jVIilitary Governor of Hawaii, 
by his Executive Lt. Col. Thomas A. Green, the highly resourceful Department 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11853 

Judge Advocate of that department, promulgated General Orders 3 and 4 by 
which he established a military commission of five members for the trial of civilians 
accused of more serious offenses and two provost courts of one member each for 
the trial of civilians accused of less serious offenses; vested in the commission 
jurisdiction to adjudge, effective upon his confirmation, any appropriate punish- 
ment, including death; vested in the provost courts jurisdiction to adjudge, ef- 
fective forthwith, punishments not exceeding in any case a fine of $5,000 plus im- 
prisonment for 5 years; appointed two commissioned officers to constitute the 
provost courts and appointed commissioned officers to comprise three of the 
members and also the defense counsel of the commission; but appointed civilian 
lawyers to comprise the other two members and the trial judge advocate of the 
commission ; and designated one of the civilian members of the commission as its 
president and law member. 

According to all our advices, including those from civilian sources in the islands, 
this arrangement was well received and has worked well; but ultimately the pro- 
visions of R. S. 3679 compelled the Army to commission the civilian members of 
the military commission and thus, as we think, to impair to some extent the salu- 
tary effect of its original composition. 

The President's appointment of Mr. Justice Roberts, a civilian, as presiding 
member of the Commission of Inquiry is, of course, a still more recent and au- 
thoritative, although less pointed, precedent. 

The association has not yet had the opportunity to procure and study the actual 
text of the President's recent order to which you refer. As reported in some of 
the press accounts of that order, it authorizes or directs the commanding general 
to designate certain military zones within the western defense command; to re- 
move enemy aliens from those zones and to concentrate such aliens in other 
locations. Such provisions, we think, would obviously not involve any imposi- 
tion of martial law. As reported in some press accounts, the order also authorizes 
similar action in respect of some citizens, who are distinguished from other citi- 
zens by enemy alien parentage or antecedents; but we do not feel at liberty to 
attempt to construe the meaning or effect of any such provision in advance of a 
study of its actual text and context. 



Exhibit 8. — Governor's Proclamation — Martial Law for Ter- 
ritory OF Haw.\ii 

SUBMITTED BY C. HUNTINGTON J.\COBS, PRESIDENT, THE MILITARY LAW ASSOCIATION 

Governor Poindexter, at 4:30 p. m. Svuiday, issued a proclamation placing the 
Territory under martial law. Lt. Gen. Walter C. Short, commanding the Hawaiian 
department, was authorized and requested "during the present emergency and 
luitil the danger of invasion is removed to exercise all the powers normally exer- 
cised by me as governor." 

Rules Nos. 1, 2, and 3 under the Hawaii defense law are attached. 

Text of the proclamation and rules follow: 

Territory of Hawaii — A Proclamation 

Whereas it is provided by section 67 of the Organic Act of the Territory of 
Hawaii, approved April 30, 1900, that, whenever it becomes necessary, the Governor 
of the Territory may call upon the commander of the military forces of the United 
States in that territory to prevent invasion; and 

Whereas it is further provided by the said section that the Governor may in 
case of invasion or imminent danger thereof, when the public safety requires it, 
suspend the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus and place the Territory under 
martial law; and 

Whereas the armed forces of the Empire of Japan have this day attacked and 
invaded the shores of the Hawaiian Islands; and 

Whereas it has become necessary to repel such attack and invasion; and 

Whereas the public safety requires: Now, therefore, 

I, J. B. Poindexter, Governor of the Territory of Hawaii, do hereby announce 
that, pursuant to said section, I have called upon the commanding general, 
Hawaiian department, to prevent such invasion; 

And pursuant to the same section, I do hereby suspend the privilege of the 
writ of habeas corpus until further notice; 

60306 — 42 — pt. 31 16 



11854 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

And pursuant to the same section, I do hereby place the said Territory under 
martial law: 

And I do hereby authorize and request the commanding general, Hawaiian 
department, during the present emergency and until the danger of invasion is 
removed, to exercise all the powers normally exercised by me as Governor; 

And I do further authorize and request the said commanding general, Hawaiian 
department, and those subordinate military personnel to whom he may delegate 
such authority, during the present emergency and until the danger of invasion is 
removed, to "exercise the powers normally exercised by judicial officers and 
employees of this Territory and of the counties and cities therein, and such other 
and further powers as the emergency may require; 

And I do require all good citizens of the United States and all other persons 
within the Territory of Hawaii to obey promptly and fully, in letter and in spirit, 
such proclamations, rules, regulations and orders, as the commanding general, 
Hawaiian department, or his subordinates, may issue during the present emer- 
gency. 

In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the 
Territory of Hawaii to be affixed. 

Done at Honolulu, Territory of Hawaii, this 7th day of December 1941. 

J. B. POINDEXTER, 

Governor oj the Territory of Hawaii. 
By the Governor: 
[seal] Charles M. Hite, 

Secretary of Hawaii. 

Exhibit 9. — Military Commission Named for Territory of 

Hawaii 

SUBMITTED BY C. HUNTINGTON .lACOBS, PRESIDENT, THE MILITARY LAW 

ASSOCIATION 

General Orders No. 3, December 7, 1941. 

1. By virtue of the power vested in me as military governor, a military commis- 
sion is appointed to meet at Honolulu, Territory of Hawaii, to meet at the call 
of the president thereof, for the trial of such persons as may be properly brought 
before it: James L. Coke, president and law member; Alva E. Steadman; Lt. Col. 
E. F. Ely, Finance Department; Lt. Col. Hyatt F. Newell, Inspector General's 
Department; Lt. Col. V. G. Allen, Adjutant General's Department; Angus 
Taylor, trial judge advocate; Maj. H. M. Coppin, Adjutant General's Depart- 
ment, defense counsel. 

2. By virtue of the power vested in me as military governor, Maj. Henry 
DuPres, Adjutant General's Department, is appointed as a provost court to meet 
at Schofield Barracks, Territory of Hawaii, for the trial of such persons as may be 
properly brought before it. 

3. By virtue of the power vested in me as military governor, Lt. Col. Neal D. 
Franklin, Judge Advocate General's Department, is appointed as provost court 
to meet at Honolulu, Territory of Hawaii, for the trial of such persons as may be 
properly brought before it. 

By order of the military governor. 

Thomas H. Green, 
Lieutenant Colonel, Judge Advocate General's Department, 

Executive. 



Exhibit 10. — Policy Governing Trials of Civilians in Territory 

OF Hawaii 

submitted by c. huntington jacobs, president, the military law association 

General Orders No. 4, December 7, 1941 

By virtue of the power vested in me as military governor, the following policy 
governing the trial of civilians by military commissions and provost courts is 
announced for the information and guidance of all concerned: 

1. Mihtarv commissions and provost courts shall have power to try and deter- 
mine any case involving an offense committed against the laws of the United 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11855 

States, the laws of the Territory of Hawaii, or the rules, regulations, orders, or 
policies of the military authorities. The jurisdiction thus given does not include 
the right to try commissioned or enlisted personnel of the United States Army 
and Navy. Such persons shall be turned over to their respective services for 
disposition. 

2. Military commissions and provost courts will adjudge sentences commen- 
surate with the offense committed. Ordinarily, the sentence will not exceed the 
limit of punishment prescribed for similar offenses by the laws of the United 
States or the Territory of Hawaii. However, the courts are not bound by the 
limits of punishment prescribed in said laws and in aggravated cases and in cases 
of repeated offenses the courts may adjudge an appropriate sentence. 

3. The record of trial in cases before military commissions will be substantially 
similar to that required in a special court martial. The record of trial in cases 
before provost courts will be substantially similar to that in the case of a summary 
court martial. 

4. The procedure in trials before military commissions and provost courts will 
follow, so far as it is applicable, the procedure required for special and summary 
courts martial, respectively. 

5. The records of trial in all cases will be forwarded to the department judge 
advocate. The sentences adjudged by provost courts shall become effective 
immediately. The sentence adjudged by a military commission shall not become 
effective until it shall have been approved by the military governor. 

6. All charges against civilian prisoners shall be preferred by the department 
provost marshal or one of his assistants. 

7. The provost marshal is responsible for the prompt trial of all civilian prisoners 
and for carrying out the sentence adjudged by the court. 

8. Charges involving all major offenses shall be referred to a military commis- 
sion for trial. Other cases of lesser degree shall be referred to provost courts. 
The maximum punishment which a provost court may adjudge is confinement 
for a period of 5 years and a fine of not to exceed $5,000. Military commissions 
may adjudge punishment commensurate with the offense committed and may 
adjudge the death penalty in appropriate cases. 

9. In adjudging sentences, provost courts and miUtary commissions will be 
guided by, but not limited to, the penalties authorized by the courts martial 
manual, the laws of the United States, the Territory of Hawaii, the District of 
Columbia, and the customs of war in like cases. 

Thomas H. Gkeen, 
Lieutenant Colonel, Judge Advocate General's Department, 

Executive Officer. 



Exhibit 11. — Statement by the Military Law Association 

submitted by c. huntington jacobs, president 

Report of Special Section Detailed January 27, 1942, Upon the Legality 
OF Appointment of Civilian Judges to Military Commissions Convened 
Under Military Law 

(1) The earliest precedent found by your section for appointment of any civilian 
to a military commission, called by that name, is contained in No. 3 of the general 
orders of General Short, then the military governor of Hawaii, dated December 
7, 1941. That order (evidently drafted by Lt. Col. Thomas A. Green, the de- 
partment judge advocate of the department of Hawaii) appoints "James L. Coke, 
president and law member; Alva E. Steadman; Lt. Col. E. F. Ely, Finance De- 
partment; Lt. Col. Hyatt F. Newell, Inspector General's Department; Lt. Col. 
V. G. AUen, Adjustaiit General's Department, defense counsel" to constitute a 
military commission for the trial of such civilians, accused of any criminal offense, 
civilian or military, as may properly be brought before it by charges to be pre- 
ferred by the provost marshal general under No. 4 of those general orders. The 
latter order vests the commission with unlimited power to punish, subject, how- 
ever, to confirmation by the convening authority, and assimulates its procedure 
to that of a special court martial. A slightly less pointed but still more recent 
and authoritative precedent is the appointment by President Roosevelt of Justice 
Roberts to head the mixed board of inquiry into the Pearl Harbor debacle. 



11856 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

(2) The second edition (published 1920) of Colonel Winthrop's Military Law 
and Precedents observes at page 835 (reference 1303): 

"FoUowinis; the analogy of courts martial, military commissions in this country 
have invariably been composed of commissioned officers of the army. Strictly 
legally, they might indeed be composed otherwise should the commander will 
it — as, for example, in part of civilians or of enlisted men." 

Your section finds no authority to the contrary. 

(3) By the following decisions the United States Supreme Court upheld the 
power of the President, as Commander in Chief during the Civil War, to con- 
stitute, with a single civilian judge, the so-called Provisional Court of Louisiana, 
and to vest it with both civil and criminal jurisdiction over civilians within the 
area including and immediately surrounding the city of New Orleans, after re- 
covery of that area from the rebel forces and while it was still imminently threatened 
with invasion bv them, namelv: The Grapeshot v. Wallerstein, 1869 (9 Wall., 
76 U. S. 129, 19L. Ed. 651); Burke v. Milionberqer, 1874, 19 Wall., 86 U. S. 519, 
22 L. Ed. 158. 

(4) Note, in passing, that both of these decisions are later than Ex Parte Milli- 
gan, 1866, 4 Wall., 71 U. S. 2, 18 L. Ed. 281, that the Grapeshot decision was 
delivered by Mr. Chief Justice Chase, the author of the minority or specially con- 
curring opinion in the Milligan case, while the Burke decision was rendered by 
Mr. Justice Davis, author of the majority decision in the Milligan case; that 
both of these later decisions were substantially unanimous; and that both of 
these later decisions must be taken as superseding the dicta of the majority in the 
Milligan case to the effect that martial law may not legally be declared except 
while the civilian courts are closed l)y actual and present invasion or insurrection. 

(5) Note also that if criminal jurisdiction may be conferred as a measure of 
war, upon a civilian over civilians in threatened territory, it is scarcely material 
whether the tribunal he constitutes be called a provisional court or a military 
commission; although of the two the latter name is certainly more familiar and 
appropriate to martial law. 

(6) Military commissions are recognized by Articles of War 15, 38, 80, 81, and 
82 as tribunals appropriate for the trial of civilians under military jurisdiction 
and even, under some very exceptional circumstances, of military personnel. 
The same articles explicitly limit personnel of courts martial to commissioned 
officers. They omit any such limitation in the case of such commissions. It is 
inferrable that no such limitation was intended to be observed in constituting 
such commissions unless at the pleasure of the convening authority. 

(7) Military customs support the convening of military commissions "by the 
same commanders as are empowered by articles 72 and 73 to order general courts 
martial" Winthrop, op. cit., page 835 (ref. 1302)). 

(8) The power of such a commander to appoint the civilian judge who com- 
posed the so-called Provisional Court of Louisiana was upheld by the Supreme 
Court of the United States in (Mechanics', etc.. Bank v. Union Bank of Louisiana, 
1874, 22 Wall., 89 U. S. 276, 22 L. Ed. 871). 

(9) The latter "court" was, we think, only a special form of military com- 
mission. Unlike a court martial whose finding of iimocence is conclusive and 
whose sentence establishes the maximum punishment which the convicted 
defendant may be required to undergo, the military commission, in its normal 
form, is not vested with power to render judgment possessing any finality — not 
even a judgment of acquittal. Its findings and sentences take effect only if, 
when, and to the extent that they are confirmed by the convening authority. 
They are, in other words, as purely advisory as the findings, conclusions, and 
recommendations of a special master in equity, unless and until and to the extent 
that they are adopted as the acts of the commander himself. Such, for example, 
is the commission established by General Order 3 in Hawaii. It seems apparent 
that if the commander has power, in virtue of the authority of the President, to 
appoint a single civilian to compose, uniquely, a "court" whose decrees were 
originally conclusive, he must have power to include civilians in the membership 
of such a purely advisory body as a military commission normally is. For 
martial law is the will of the commander (Ex Parte Milligan, supra) . 

(10) Our conclusion is that such an appointment is legally proper. 
Approved for the Association; Submitted for the Section: 

C. Huntington Jacobs, Wm. S. Graham, 

President. Acting Chairman. 



national defense migration 11857 

Exhibit 12. — Tentative Plan for the Organization of Military 
Tribunals in the Affected Area or Areas on the Pacific 
Coast in the Event of a Declaration of Martial Law 

PREPARED BY C. HUNTINGTON JACOBS, PRESIDENT, THE MILITARY LAW ASSOCIATION 

To guide the preparation of an appropriate general order in the event supposed, 
it is suggested the following instructions might be given by appropriate authority: 

Section 1. Persons Affected 

1-1. Specify that the term "civilian," as used in this general order, includes 
all persons except those made subject by A. W. 2 or the Articles for the Govern- 
ment of the Navy to military or naval discipline, while so subject, and includes 
persons of the latter class only when it expressly refers to them. 

Section 2. Undesirable Persons 

2-1. Provide that any civilian, whether or not accused or convicted of any 
specific crime, who is found by a military commission sitting as a court, or by a 
superior provost court, to constitute, by reason of his or her conduct or otherwise, 
a menace to the security, health, or morale of the armed forces or civilians in any 
such area, or a menace to public or private property therein which is or may be 
useful for any military purpose, may by such court be ordered held in preventive 
custody, or required to quit any or all of such areas, or required to give bond in 
cash or with sufficient surety or sureties, conditioned for prompt and faithful 
obedience to orders and regulations and for good and loyal conduct, or both to 
quit any or all such areas and give such bond in lieu of being held in preventive 
custody. 

Sec. 3. Crimes 

3-1. Provide that any civilian who, within any affected area and after the 
declaration of martial law over that area, violates any military order or regulation 
or the laws of war or is guilty of any act or omission which does or normally 
would constitute an offense against any Federal, State, or municipal constitution, 
statute, or ordinance in effect in that area at the time of such declaration, shall 
suffer such punishment, not cruel or unusual, as a military commission or provost 
court may direct, subject to the further provisions of this order. 

Sec. 4. Territorial Units 

4-1. Divide each affected area (as shown on a large-scale map) into "sub- 
divisions," following the county lines as closely as may be, but avoiding creation 
of any subdivision which either is greater in area than 15,000 square miles or has 
a civilian population in excess of 150,000. 

4-2. Group these subdivisions into "districts" of about 4 subdivisions each. 

4-3. Specify the location of headquarters for the administration and enforce- 
ment of military justice in each district and in each subdivision. 

Sec. 5. Enforcement 

5-1. Direct that the Provost Marshal General establish and maintain all 
headquarters prescribed by section 4 of this order and such additional head- 
quarters as the work of enforcement may require. 

5-2. Provide that the Provost Marshal General control all activities under this 
order except as otherwise provided therein. 

5-3. Authorize the Provost Marshal General and his commissioned and non- 
missioned subordinates to call to their assistance, when necessary, any or all able- 
bodied male civilians found within any district, in aid of the arrest and detention 
of civilians within that district who are accused or convicted of crime, whether or 
not such civilians are otherwise subject to military or naval discipline. 

Sec. 6. Administration 

6-1. Provide that, subject to this and subsequent general and special orders oj 
the military governor, the administration of military justice under this order shall 
be conducted by (a) the executive officer, (b) the district officers, and (c) the 
presidents of the military commissions hereinafter mentioned. 



11858 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Sec. 7. Executive Officer 

7-1. Direct the executive officer to supervise dirertly and generally the form 
and content of charges, specifications, records and reports of all judicial officers and 
tribunals appointed or constituted by this order or subsequent orders amendatory 
thereof or supplementary thereto. 

7-2. Authorize the executive officer, whenever he shall deem the dispatch of 
judicial business requires it, to transfer military personnel and civilian personnel 
(with their consent) from one district to another. Provide that civilian personnel 
shall rank within their respective grades in accordance with seniority of appoint- 
ment thereto, and those of equal seniority in accordance with seniority of birth. 

Sec. 8. District Officers 

8-1. For each district appoint a member of the Judge Advocate General's 
Department or a civilian lawyer versed in military law as District Officer to 
execute within that district, the orders of the executive officer and generally to 
supervise within that district the form and content of charges, specifications, 
records, and reports of all judicial officers and tribunals appointed or constituted 
by this order or subsequent orders amendatory thereof or supplementary thereto. 

8-2. Authorize every district officer, whenever he shall deem the dispatch of 
judicial business within his district requires it, to assign to duty in any sub- 
division personnel transferred to his district and to transfer military personnel 
and civilian personnel (with their consent) from one subdivision to another 
within his district. Provide that any personnel so transferred shall report for 
duty to the presidents of the military commissions of the subdivisions to which 
they are respectively transferred. 

Sec. 9. Federal and State Courts 

9-1. Authorize expressly all Federal, State, municipal, and justices' courts 
and their respective officers and jurors to continue to exercise their respective 
normal original and appellate jurisdictions and functions in respect of all civil 
actions and proceedings and in respect of all criminal offenses alleged to have 
occurred outside any affected area or before the declaration of martial law over 
the area in which the offense is alleged to have occurred. 

Sec. 10. Military Tribunals — How Constituted 

10-1. Provide that in each subdivision there shall be three kinds of tribunals; 
namely, the mifitary commission constituted bj^ this order when sitting as a 
court and the superior and inferior provost courts to be constituted by details 
from the personnel of that commission in the manner as specified below. 

10-2> Appoint as the members of each commission 12 persons; namely, 8 
officers, active or retired, and 4 civilians. Appoint as civilian members lawyers, 
preferably judges, who are conversant with military law. Designate 4 members 
who are conversant with military law, respectively as president and law member 
and as first, second, and third assistant presidents and law members of the com- 
mission. Provide that in case of the absence or disability of the president and 
law member, his senior assistant shall perform his duties. 

10-3. Appoint three law3^ers, preferably civilians, who are conversant with 
military law, respectively as trial judge advocate and as first and second assistant 
trial judge advocates of the commission. 

10-4. Appoint three civilian lawyers or an officer and two sergeants, respectively 
as defense counsel and as assistant defense counsel of the commission. 

10-5. Provide that each inferior provost court shall consist of one commis- 
sioned member. Provide that the president shall detail and keep in session two 
inferior provost courts at all times, and additional inferior provost courts when 
the dispatch of business requires them and sufficient commissioned members are 
available to compose them. 

10-6. Provide that each superior provost court shall consist of two cornmis- 
sioned members and one civilian member of the commission; of the trial judge 
advocate or one of his assistants and of the defense counsel or one of his assist- 
ants. Provide that the president shall detail and keep in session one superior 
provost court at all times, and addditional superior provost courts when the dis- 
patch of business requires them and sufficient commisisoned and civilian members 
are available to compose them. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11859 

10-7. Provide that the commission, when sitting as a court for the trial of 
hearing of any matter, shall be composed, in the discretion of the president, either 
of four commissioned and three civilian members or of three commissioned and 
two civilian members, always inckiding, in either event, the president and the 
senior commissioned member of the whole commission, unless one or both of 
them shall be absent from the subdivision or disabled, and including in the latter 
event the next senior present and fit for duty. Provide that otherwise the com- 
mission when sitting as a court shall be composed of members detailed by the 
president. Provide that when sitting as a court the commission shall be at- 
tended and served by the trial judge advocate and one of his assistants and the 
defense counsel and one of his assistants. Provide that the commission shall sit 
as a court so long, only, as there shall be any case referred to the commission which 
remains pending and cannot be adequately disposed of by a superior or inferior 
provost court. 

10-8. Provide that in making all selections of military personnel for such de- 
tails, the president shall act only upon and in accordance with the advice of the 
senior commissioned member of his commission. 

Sec. 11. Military Tribunals — -Power to Punish or Acquit — Procedure, 

Records 

11-1. Provide that when sitting as a court, a military commission shall have 
power to determine matters arising under section 2 and power to adjudge upon a 
conviction of crime any punishment not cruel or unusual, including banishment 
or death. _ Provide that a superior provost court shall have power to determine 
matters arising under section 2 and power to adjudge upon a conviction of crime 
imprisonment for not longer than 6 months or a fine of not exceeding $1,200 or 
both. Provide that an inferior provost court shall have power to adjudge upon 
a conviction of crime imprisonment for not longer than 1 month or a fine of not 
exceeding $200, or both. 

11-2. Provide that a judgment of acquittal shall be final when rendered; and 
a judgment of conviction, when rendered, shall conclusively determine the maxi- 
mum penalty or detriment which may be imposed upon the convicted defendant 
on account of the matter charged and tried by the court. 

11-3. Provide that insofar as the penalty or detriment imposed by any judg- 
ment shall be within the jurisdiction of the court which rendered it, the judgment 
shall be effective when rendered, subject to review; except that [a sentence of 
death or of banishment from any affected area shall become effective only if and 
when confirmed by the military governor. 

11-4. Provide that a sentence of death shall not be valid unless unanimous; 
that to the extent it exceeds the jurisdiction of a superior provost court, a sentence 
shall not be valid unless concurred in by three-fourths or more of the members 
of the commission who heard and decided the case in which it was imposed; 
that to the extent of the penaltj' or detriment of banishment, a judgment imposing 
that penalty or detriment shall not be valid unless concurred in by three-fourths 
or more oi_ such members, if such judgment be that of a commission, or unless 
concurred in b.y all of the judges, if such judgment be [that of a superior pro- 
vost court; and that to the extent it exceeds the jurisdiction of a minor provost 
court, the sentence of a commission shall not be valid unless concurred in by 
two-thirds pr more of the members of the commission who heard and decided the 
case in which it was imposed. 

Sec. 12. Arraignment — Charges — Reference of Cases 

12-1. Provide that no civilian not presently cha!rged with crime shall be arrested 
or tried under the provisions of section 2 except by order of the military governor 
or the provost marshal general. 

12-2. Provide that every civiUan or apparent civilian arrested, whether or not 
otherwise subject to military or naval discipline, shall as promptly as possible be 
produced and arraigned before the nearest inferior provost court. 

12-3. Provide that the latter court saall thereupon summarily inquire into the 
matter. Provide that if the prisoner be found to be a person subject to military 
or naval discipline under the provisions of A. W. 2 or the Articles for the Govern- 
ment of the Navy, he shall forthwith be delivered into the custody of those having 
disciplinary control over him. Provide that if the prisoner be found to be a 
civilian not so subject, he shall be disposed of by the inferior provost court as 
foUows: (a) If he is accused under section 2 or is apparently guilty of any crime 



11860 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

too serious to be adequately punished by an inferior provost court, he shall be 
remanded to custody or admitted to bail pending further proceedings in accordance 
with this order. (6) Otherwise he shall be summarily charged, tried, and dis- 
missed or sentenced by the inferior provost court itself. 

12-4. Provide that in the case of any civilian prisoner who is accused- under 
section 2 or apparently guilty of any crime too serious to be adequately punished 
by the inferior provost court, the judge of the latter court shall promptly prepare 
and execute or cause to be executed, appropriate charges and specifications in 
substantially the form prescribed by the military court-martial and forward them 
to the president of his commission. 

12-5. Provide that the President shall require any necessary revision of the 
charges and specifications. 

12-6. Provide that the President shall as promptly as possible refer the case 
for trial to a superior provost court if the powers and procedure thereof are, in 
his judgment, appropriate to the case; and that otherwise he shall refer it for 
trial to the commission sitting as a court. 

Sec. 13. Triai. Procedure — Evidence — Records — Bail 

13-1. Provide that in all cases the procedure, the rules governing the produc- 
tion, admission, and preservation of evidence, and the form and content of records, 
of a military commission sitting as a court shall be assimilated to those of a general 
court martfal; those of a superior provost court, to those of a special court martial; 
and those of an inferior provost court, to those of a summary court martial, except 
that in all trials in superior provost courts, as well as commissions, all evidence 
sh?ll be phonographically reported and recorded in full, and that an inferior provost 
court mav in its discretion order any or all testimony to be so reported and recorded. 

13-2. Provide that at anv time prior to conviction, a civilian prisoner may 
be admitted t(5 bail by a majority of the members of the court before which his 
case is pending or bv the presiding member of that court. Provide that bail 
shall be in such amount as may be approved by the authority admitting to bail 
and shall be in the form of cash or of a bond with such surety or surefires as that 
authoritv mav approve. Provide that all bail be conditioned upon appearance 
of the prisoner at all subsequent hearings and proceedings of the matter before 
that court. Provide that orders admitting to bail shall be written and shall be 
made and executed in duplicate, that one copy shall be delivered to the custodian 
of the prisoner, and that one shall be filed and preserved as a part of the record 
of the case. 

Sec. 14. Transfers of Courts and of Cases 

14-1. Provide that whenever the dispatch of business or military exigencies 
require such action, a military tribunal within the affected areas which is engaged 
in the trial of a case may be' removed from one to any other location within the 
affected areas; and mav complete such trial during or after such removal, or both; 
except that no proceedings of the tribunal shall be valid unless they take place 
within an affected area. Provide that alternatively any case which is pending 
before anv military tribunal within the affected areas may for a like reason be 
transferred for completion to anv other such tribunal within those areas. 

14-2. Provide that any transfer must be ordered by the executive officer or 
militarv commander, except that transfers of that nature from one location or 
court to another within the same district, may be ordered by the district officer 
of that district. 

Sec. 15. Review — Revision — Clemency 

15-1. Provide that all records of cases tried within any subdivision shall be 
promptlv delivered to the president of the commission therein ; forwarded to the 
district office as promptly as final action is taken within the subdivision; and for- 
warded to the executive officer as promptly as final action is taken within the 
district. 

15-2. Provide that judgments of acquittal shall not be reviewed nor revised; 
and no sentence shall be increased. 

15-3. Provide that any judgment of conviction which imposes no penalty or 
detriment in excess of the powers of an inferior provost court and which was 
rendered by a commission with the concurrence of three-fourths or more of its 
members who heard and decided the case, or rendered by a superior provost 
court with the concurrence of all three of its judges, shall not be reviewed nor 
revised, unless by the district officer, nor unless within 15 days after the record 
of the case has been delivered to him. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11861 

15-4. Provide that insofar as a sentence imposes the penalty of death or the 
penalty or detriment of banishment, it shall not be confirmed except by the 
military governor, but may be set aside or moderated by intermediate reviewing 
authority. 

15-5. Provide that subject to paragraphs "15-2," "15-3," and "15-4," all 
judgments of commissions sitting as courts within any district and all judgments 
of superior provost courts therein which impose the penalty or detriment of 
banishment shall be reviewed and either confirmed or revised by the district 
officer of that district. 

15-6. Provide that subject to paragraphs "15-2," "15-3," "15-4," and "15-5" 
every judgment of a provost court within any subdivision shall be reviewed by 
the president of the commission for that subdivision if he is qualified to act in 
that case on review, and if not, then by the next senior civilian member of that 
commission who is so qualified. Provided that no memljer shall be qualified to 
act on review if he participated in the trial or decision of the case reviewed. 

15-7. Provide that the term "revise" shall be understood to include setting a 
judgment aside in whole or part, dismissing the case, ordering a new trial, or 
reducing or remitting all or any part of a judgment or sentence under review. 

15-8. Provide that applications for clemency will be considered only after con- 
viction of the prisoner on whose behalf they are made; that they must state the 
prisoner's name, nationality, address, age, and occupation and those of the 
applicant; that they must state when, where, and by what court the prisoner was 
convicted and the sentence imposed; that they must state specifically and briefly 
the facts deemed to require or justify clemency in his case, and the name, nation- 
ality, address, and occupation of any person claimed by the applicant to have 
personal knowledge of those facts of any of them; that they must indicate the 
action desired; that they must be verified under the oath of the applicant; and 
that they may be delivered to any member of a military commission in any sub- 
division. Provide that, if recording to such an application, the prisoner is under 
sentence of death the member receiving it shall, as promptly and directly as pos- 
sible and as informalh- as need be, communicate the fact and contents of the appli- 
cation to the executive officer who shall thereupon communicate them promptly 
with his recommendation to the military governor. Provide that in all cases the 
application shall be promptly transmitted through the president and district 
officer to the executive officer, who shall cause to be made such investigation as 
he deems appropriate, and shall report the facts with his recommendation to the 
military governor. State that the military governor retains the right to stay the 
execution of any sentence not fully executed or to direct any remission or mitiga- 
tion thereof which the facts may, in his opinion, warrant. 

Respectfully submitted to the section. 

C. Huntington J.-^cobs. 



Exhibit 13. — The Position of Aliens in Great Britain During 

THE War 

report by british libr.\ry of information, 30 rockefeller plaza, new 

york city 

March 20, 1942. 

Introduction. — At the outbreak of war Great Britain announced a considerate 
policy toward her enemy aliens, most of whom were known to be "refugees from 
Nazi oppression." "There will be a general desire," said the Home Secretary, 
"to avoid treating as enemies those who are friendly to the country which has 
offered them asylum." ^ The unexpected course of the war in Europe brought 
about drastic changes in this policy, and when in the tenth month of the war in- 
vasion seemed imminent, Britain interned a large number of enemy alien refugees, 
and even transferred some to internment in Canada and Australia. Later, how- 
ever, it became possible to revert to the old policy. The interned refugees were 
almost all released and were allowed, on the same terms as other friendly aliens, 
to play their full part in the Allied cause. Though some persons saw even tempo- 
rary internment as an unnecessary hardship to refugees who were Hitler's enemies, 
the dominant fact is that Britain interned refugees only in a period of unexpected 
crisis, and reversed this policy for all who proved, after scrutiny, to be completely 
trustworthy. 

1 Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, September 4, 1939. 



11862 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

The problem of the refugees was but a portion of the larger alien problem of 
Great Britain. There were hostile enemy aliens who had to be interned. There 
were aliens, allied or neutral, whose treatment had to be considered individually. 
More difficult still, many refugees came to Britain, as the war developed from 
countries occupied by the enemy, and it was often difficult to decide whether 
they were reliable or not. Most of the alien problems of Great Britain have now 
been solved, and the story can be surveyed as one which has achieved a relatively 
happy ending. 

The outbreak of war. — In September 1939 there were in Great Britain 238,074 
aliens of the following nationalities: 



American 13, 665 

Austrian 11. 989 

Belgian 4,207 

Bulgarian 79 

Chinese 2, 652 

Czechoslovak 7, 930 

Danish 3, 162 

Dutch 5, 668 

Finnish 447 

French 11, 613 

German 62, 244 

Greek 1, 607 

Hungarian 3, 965 

Italian 19, 127 



Japanese 966 

Norwegian 2, 220 

Polish 8,776 

Portuguese 470 

Rumanian 2, 692 

Russian 47, 664 

Serbian 509 

Spanish 3, 039 

Swedish 2, 691 

Swiss 10, 088 

Turkish 866 

Others 9, 738 



Total 1238,074 



1 Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, October 26, 1939. 

In an order dated September 4, 1939,2 all aliens over 16 were obliged to report 
immediately to the police. Enemy aliens (that is Germans and Austrians) were 
forbidden, "without previous permission, to change their residence or to travel 
more than 5 miles from their residence (except in the London area) , or own vehicles, 
cameras, or maps. Other aliens were only to notify changes of address or absences 
of over 2 weeks. British and foreign women who had acquired German or 
Austrian nationality by marriage had to register. Citizens of Czechoslovakia, 
even though previously resident in areas occupied by Germany, were not classified 
as enemy aliens. 

Some '2,000 enemy aliens on the "black list" of the British authorities were 
immediatelv interned at the outbreak of war; * but it was known that of the 
'74,233 Germans and Austrians resident in Great Britain at least 50,000 were 
"refugees." The majority of these refugees were Jews, or Christians of Jewish 
descent, who had been forced to leave Germany or Austria because of "racial" 
persecution. Others were victims of religious persecution (as Christians), or of 
political persecution. The Government announced that it would refrain from a 
policy of general internment, but would, instead, have all Germans and Austrians 
reviewed before tribunals, to ascertain which of them could properly be left at 
large, and which should be interned or subjected to other restrictions.^ 

The tribunals for enemy aliens. — Within a few weeks over 100 tribunals were set 




required, by an interpreter. The liaison officer was selected by the voluntary 
refugee committees, and was able to supply information in the possession of these 
committees. A police officer was also present to supply the tribunal with con- 
fidential information in the possession of the authorities.^ Friends or witnesses 
could accompany the alien." 

The tribunals were instructed to specify which of the enemy aliens they exam- 
ined could be considered as refugees, and to put every enemy alien in one of three 
categories: 

Categorv A. To be interned immediately. 

Category B. Subject to some restrictions, mainly restriction of movement 
without permission. 

Category C. Free of all restrictions, except those applicable to nonenemy aliens. 

2 Statutory Rules and Orders, 1939 No. 994. 

3 House of Lords, Parliamentary Debates, May 23, 1940. 

* Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, September 4, 1939. 

> Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, September 20, 1939. 

• Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, September 28, 1939. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11863 

By Marcli 1940, 73,353 Germans and Austrians had appeared before the 
tribunals, and had been classified as follows: 

Category A. Interned 569 

Category B. Restricted 6, 782 

Category C. Free from restriction 64, 254 

Fifty-five thousand four hundred and fifty-seven had been recognized as 
"refugees from Nazi oppression." '^ 

It was generally agreed that the tribunals had acted fairly, though there was 
some complaint of a lack of uniformity in decision. Appeals were entered against 
many of the A and B decisions, and revisory committees were set up to hear the 
appeals. The greatest lack of uniformity had been over the B category, which 
had apparently been interpreted by some tribunals to mean "possibly dangerous" 
and by others as "almost certainly innocent." Twelve regional committees were 
therefore set up to review the B decisions, and also to reconsider any C cases where 
the police thought it advisable.^ 

During this period all aliens, including uninterned enemy aliens, were allowed 
to reside in any part of Great Britain and to accept employment subject to the 
consent of the Ministry of Labor. Enemy aliens were recruited for the Auxiliary 
Military Pioneer Corps and were allowed to work in defense industries upon the 
receipt of a permit from the Home Office (8a). Statutory Rules and Orders, 
1939. No. 1660. 

Stricter attitude to all aliens. — At the end of March 1940 the Government began 
to take stricter measures with regard to the control of aliens. An order was 
issued 8 declaring that aliens resident in the "protected areas" (mainly irnportant 
coastal districts) could continue to live there only with the written permission of 
the police or the Home Secretary. If, having normally lived or worked in these 
areas before this time, they desired to continue residence, application was care- 
fully considered, and they were allowed to continue residence pending a decision. 
From April onwards, the "protected areas" were greatly extended in number.i" 

At the beginning of May, when the Netherlands were over-run by the Nazi 
invaders, the British public became alarmed at the possibility that there might be 
some fifth columnists among the aliens who stiU enjoyed freedom in Great 
Britain. On May 12 the Government suddenly interned all male enemy aliens 
between 16 and 60 residing in certain coastal areas, and ordered all other aliens 
residing in these areas, to report daily in person to the police, to refrain from 
using any motor vehicle or bicycle, and to observe a curfew between 8 p. m. and 
6 a. m.ii ' It -wai stated that all these measures were to be regarded as provisional, 
and the police were authorized to grant exemptions to these restrictions if they 
were satisfied that it did not prejudice the national interest. '^ A few days later,'' 
the general internment of all male enemy aliens between 16 and 60 of category 
B was ordered and soon the Government began to intern practically all male 
enemy aliens mainly of category B.i^ During the same period orders were issued, 
tightening the control over all, including nonenemy aliens. '^ Control over 
employment was made stricter. They were subjected to a curfew of 10:30 to 
6 a. m. (12 midnight to 6 a. m. in the London area), and were forbidden to own 
firearms, motor vehicles, bicycles, boats, or radios. They were obliged to report 
their movements carefully to the police, though it was stated that exceptions would 
be granted in cases where there was no danger. In July an order was issued 
under which all former Austrians, Germans, and Italians, who had become 
naturalized British subjects since December 1, 1932, were also obliged to report 
to the police (15a). Statutory Rules and Orders, 1940. No. 1148. 

Internment of enemy aliens.- — By the end of July 1940 a total of 27,261 enemy 
aliens had been interned in Great Britain, of which 22,878 were German and 
Austrians and 4,383 Italians."' Of the Germans and Austrians some 5,000 were 
of category B and 13,200 of category C." The Italians had never been classified 
by tribunals, owing to their late entry into the war. 

' Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, March 1, 1940. 

8 Home Office statement (Dailv Press, March 28. 1940). 

» Statutory Rules and Orders, 1940. No. 468. 

10 Statutory Rules and Orders, 1940. Nos. 726, 857, 869, 931. 988, 1464. 

'I Statutory Rules and Orders, 1940. No. 720. 

12 Home office statement (Daily Press, May 13, 1940). 

13 Home office statement (Daily Press, May 17, 1940). 

1* Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, .Tune 20, 1940. 
15 Statutory Rules and Orders, 1940. Nos. 750, 754, 819, 1061. 
i« Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, December 5, 1940. 
1' Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, October 10, 1940. 



11864 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

The Government stated a number of times that internment was "a pre- 
cautionary measure only, and was not intended to make, nor did it in fact make, 
any reflection on any loyal or friendly alien interned in pursuance of general 
directions".'^ On May 29, 1940, the under secretary of state for the home 
department had affirmed that he could not recall any case since the beginning of 
the war, of anything which could be described as a hostile act having been proved 
in a court of law to be attributable to German or Austrian refugees. The domi- 
nant cause of the internment policy of 1940 was the expectation of invasion, under 
which it was felt that "enemy aliens were better out of the way," even those who 
had proved friendly to the Allied cause. For the same reason, when hostile 
enemy aliens and prisoners of war were sent in July 1940 to Canada and Australia 
"for safe-keeping," it was considered advisable to send with them as many 
interned refugees as possible, on the general principle that the fewer people who 
had to be looked after during an invasion, the better it would be. As it had never 
been anticipated in Great Britain that it would be expedient to intern refugee 
aliens, little preparation had been made with the result that during July and 
August 1940 conditions in refugee internment camps in Britain were, to say the 
least, imperfect. Public opinion in Britain was greatly aroused on these questions, 
and before long the Government gave assurances that certain groups of refugee 
aliens would be released from internment and that conditions would be greatly 
improved, as soon as possible, for those remaining.'^ 

Review and release. — The various committees set up for the treatment of aliens 
in Great Britain were active after August 1940 in many directions. The Lytton 
committee was an advisory council on general alien policy,'" the Asquith committee 
on internment policy, the Lorraine committee on interned Italians. Separate 
tribunals reviewed enemy aliens claiming to be released as active anti-Fascists, 
Germans, and Austrians of category B, and nonenemy aliens detained under 
article 12 (5A) of the Alien Order, 1922.21 As early as August 1940, the Govern- 
ment specified (in a White Paper — Cmd. 6233) some categories of interned enemy 
aliens who could apply for release. In October 1940 and again in 1941, these 
categories were extended. They may be summarized as follows: 

1. Refugees under 18 and over 65, the invalid and infirm, and cases of special 
hardship. 

2. Refugees who held key positions in industries or undertakings of national 
importance; skilled persons engaged in agriculture, food growing or forestry; 
managing employers of firms employing at least 12 IBritish workers and engaged 
in national work. 

3. Doctors and dentists practising or studying, scientists, research workers, 
students. 

4. Refugees about to emigrate. 

5. Refugees accepted for the Pioneer Corps or honorably discharged from the 
corps; parents of anyone serving in His Majesty's forces; volunteers for the Army 
not accepted on the grounds of health or age; refugees who have taken an 
active part in opposition to the Nazi regime and are friendly to Britain. 

The Government was pressed to release all friendly aliens without further delay, 
but the Home Secretary stated 22 that the policy of the Government would be to 
extend the process of release in the given categories, in the hope that all who were 
loyal and useful, or who deserved release on other grounds, might be released 
under the White Paper. This policy has been carried out thoroughly, and prac- 
tically all the refugees who were interned in Great Britain are now at liberty. 

Refugees transferred to Canada and Australia. — When the policy of releasing 
interned refugees was announced for Great Britain, it was hoped to extend this 
policy to refugees transferred in July 1940 to internment in Canada and Australia. 
At fir.st the governments in both Dominions were not prepared to consider release, 
taking the view that the internees had only been transferred for safekeeping and 
not as immigrants. 2'5 The British Government sent representatives to both 
countries to arrange for the return to Great Britain of refugees who might 
justifiably claim release under the White Paper.2^ Over 1,000 refugees were 
returned to Britain from Canada and over 500 from Australia. The Cana- 



'8 Pariiamentary Debates, House of Commons, January 22 and May 8, 1941. 
'« Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, July 23, 1940. 
M Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, August 7, 1940. 

»i Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, November 20 and December 3, 1940.' 
" Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, November 26, 1940. 

»3 Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, March 4, May 29, June 19, July 31, October 16, October 
23, 1941, etc. 

" Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, December 3, 1940, January 21, 1941. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11865 



dian Government also agreed, after a time, to release in Canada student refugees, 
and men who might be of special value to the war effort. Nearly 300 have already 
been released on these grounds. It has been announced recently that refugees 
in Australia will now be released for the Australian Army, the industrial war 
effort, as students or on health grounds.^^ 

While the questions of release were pending, in Canada and Australia, condi- 
tions for the interned refugees were greatly improved in both countries, and many 
special facilities were granted to them. Charges made concerning the conduct of 
the guards on the ships on which the aliens were sent abroad were thoroughly 
investigated by committees set up by the British Government. The offending 
soldiers were punished, and the refugees were compensated for loss of their prop- 
erty.26 

Statistics. — On the 11th of November 1941, the Home Secretary gave the 
following figures of enemy aliens still interned: 





Germans and Austrians 


Italians 


Total 




A 


B 


C 


Total 


Men: 


206 

2,119 

297 

430 


67 
399 
229 

654 


321 
609 
807 
114 


594 

1 3, 127 

1,333 

1,198 


1,893 

320 

188 

10 


2,487 




3,447 




1,521 


Women' Great Britain 


1,208 






Total 


3,052 


1,349 


1,851 


6,252 


2,411 


8,663 







' About 100 have since been released in Canada. 
The figures given in this paper are summarized in the following table: 

Enemy aliens in Great Britain 



Germans and Austrians 



In Britain in September 1939 

Maximum number interned, July 1940 
Still interned Nov. 11, 1941 



Cate- 
gory A 
and un- 
classified 



569 
4,678 
3,052 



6,782 
5,000 
1,349 



64, 254 
13,200 
1,751 



Total 



73, 353 

22, 878 

6,152 



Italians 



19, 127 
4,383 
2,411 



Present position of aliens in Great Britain. — Nationals of states at war with the 
Axis have recently been exempted from all wartime restrictions on aliens.^^ 
Though other aliens are still subject to the restrictions mentioned above with 
regard to curfew, residence in "protected areas," ownership of vehicles of trans- 
port, etc., every effort is made to "administer the regulations sympathetically" 
when the alien is thoroughly reliable and when the restrictions affect employment 
or civil defense duties. Aliens are helping the national effort on almost the same 
footing as citizens.^^ Two striking measures have been taken to secure the maxi- 
mum service of aliens. In 1940 the Minister of Labor had announced that an 
international labor force would be formed in which all aliens could be usefully 
employed in Great Britain. In June and July 1941, all aliens, including enemy 
aliens, had to register for employment for national service ((29a) S. R. and O, 
1941. Nos. 719, 720, 721, 722, 7*23, 724, 1020) and it was then found that over 
85 percent were already usefully employed. Many had high professional qualifi- 
cations or were skilled workmen when they came to England; others have received 
or are receiving training for industrial work under the same conditions as British 
citizens. The other step taken was to allow all alien doctors, including enemy 

25 Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, January 29, 1942. 

J« Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, February 23, May 27, August 5, 1941, January 20, 1942. 

" Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, February 12, 1942. 

'8 Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, November 27, 1941. 



11866 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

alien refugees, to practice during the present emergency, even without taking the 
British diploma previously required.^s Special consideration is shown to aliens 
whose close relatives are serving in the Allied cause. 

Enemy alien refugees are still recruited in considerable number to the armed 
forces. The men join the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps, though they may be 
transferred to other regiments, and may even be granted commissions. The 
women volunteer mainly for the Auxihary Territorial Service. All can serve in 
civilian defense. It must be emphasized that the employment of aliens is always 
subject to the receipt of permits from the security organizations, but these are 
very rarely withheld. 

Two modifications must be made in assessing the number of aliens in Great 
Britain today as compared with the number for September 1939. A considerable 
number, probably some thousands of enemy aliens and other alien refugees who 
were only in England as transmigrants at the outbreak of war, were able to emi- 
grate overseas, mainly to the United States, during the first year of the war. On 
the other hand, a considerable number of refugees arrived in Great Britain from 
countries overrun by Germany. These include some 3,000 Poles, 1,600 Dutch, 
13,900 Belgians, 450 Czechs, and 130 Spaniards.^" Exiled governments have 
been given certain rights over their nationals in Great Britain. 



Exhibit 14. — Statement by Paul Shoup, President, Merchants 
AND Manufacturers Association, 725 South Spring Street, 
Los Angeles, Calif. 

February 13, 1942. 

The question of the removal of aliens who are citizens of enemy countries and 
in addition of Japanese who by birth are American citizens, has resulted in 
presentation of many plans. With respect to the Japanese of American birth, 
questions arise as to constitutional rights of citizens. It is stated by our counsel 
that under martial law these constitutional rights, including writ of habeas 
corpus under section 9, article I, and other rights named under article XIV of the 
Constitution, can be suspended under present conditions, since American terri- 
tories along many shores in the Pacific have been invaded. 

The resolution enclosed adopted February 11, by the Los Angeles County 
Civilian Defense Council, through its committee, Gordon L. McDonough, chair- 
man, which was given necessary power, deals with the practical problems presented 
to the committee and is of some length accordinglj^ 

With the counsel of District Attorney Dockweiler and Deputy District Attorney 
Shoemaker, members of the committee reviewed carefully a plan for complete 
evacuation, technically, from strategic areas, licensing those who might be 
permitted to remain or subsequently enter such areas, but in the course of that 
examination certain problems arose, as follows: 

(a) Interference with work of residen-ts, traffic through such areas, advice in 
time to strangers, possible interruptions to defense industry, cost and annoyance 
to the individuals involved, expense to the Government in continual enforcement 
of the order necessary. 

(6) Impracticability of protecting the paper boundaries of such strategic areas, 
where at all extensive, as against the return of anyone bent on sabotage or 
espionage. 

(c) Attempting protection by such arbitrary boundaries and at the same time 
allowing the banned classes to be at entire freedom immediately outside thereof, 
without making any provisions either for their control or subsistence. 

(d) No provision to take care of crops which the Department of Agriculture 
had declared to be "must" crops, under Japanese operation. 

The meeting after 2 hours' discussion adjourned until Tuesday, 10 a. m., when 
the resolution enclosed was unanimously adopted. It was formulated as solutions 
were suggested for the specific problems put in the form of questions. They are 
as follows: 

(1) Would it be necessary to declare martial law and technically evacuate 
all people, as from the critical area to which martial law was applied, licensing 
those who were permitted to remain in the area oi r( enter that area, in order to 
keep out American citizens of Japanese descent? 

2» Statutory Rules and Orders, 1941, Nos. 24, 1484. 

30 Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons, July 4, 1940. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11867 

Conclusion was that if through martial law we had the constitutional power to 
keep out these Japanese through evacuation of the entire population and licensing 
those returning, then the Government likewise w^ould have the power through 
martial law to remove these Japanese and any others that it might wish to remove, 
since the end attained would be exactly the same without disturbing others. (Of 
course, there is no question about the constitutional power of the Government to 
intern all aliens who are citizens of enemy countries.) 

(2) Even if martial law is the final answer, should we not take all steps that 
could be taken effectively and prompt!}', to avoid the extension of martial law 
over the entiie State — even under our suggestion that the only people to be 
removed thereunder would be enemy aliens and American-born Japanese? 

The answer is that it would be better, thus avoiding unnecessary interference 
with local governments and local courts — their powers being superseded by those 
of the Federal Government and its agencies; and, further, that the expense involved 
in making effective the program of evacuation through State-wide martial law 
would be unnecessarily great. Therefore, our committee provided for the 
various steps which in our judgment would limit the application of martial law, 
as a last resort, to very small areas. Further we concluded that in connection 
with crop production now under way the creation of working internment areas 
where these classes could be put to work making them self-supporting and furnish- 
ing food for the country would be of real aid. 

Limitation on unnecessary hardships, such as the movement of the aged, the 
infirm, women and children, except where they went as part of famih^ units, 
would follow the plan we presented. 

We have reason to believe such a plan as this would be more apt to meet with 
the approval of the National Government than the wholesale evacuation of these 
classes under discussion, without provision for their future. 

(3) What would be the first step in this plan and why would it be taken? 

The first step is described in section (IV Our committee feels there will be 
no difficulty under the law in enforcing this prohibition. It is already installed 
as far as defense industry, waters, docks, and the like are concerned, where 
passes are required at the present time. In the very large areas of forest and 
parks (two-fifths of State's area is under Federal control), record is required of 
people entering, fees collected, camping sites designated, policing provided, and 
many other ruks and regulations; so it is not believed that there would be any 
trouble legallv in enforcement there. 

This step No. 1 does not involve taking anybody away from his home but it 
does cover very largely the areas most in danger. 

(4) What should be done with the citizens of enemy countries taken from 
homes? 

Section (2) of the enclose is our answer. They should be placed under Gov- 
ernment control — that is, in a practical way be subject to internment rules and 
regulations. To designate certain strategic areas from which to exclude them, 
taking them from their homes, and then letting them roam at will outside, would 
not solve the problem. With respect to large strategic areas the boundaries 
would be paper boundaries only; could not be satisfactorily patrolled; and any 
alien shut out bent on sabotage or espionage could return and engage in his work 
perhaps even more freely than if he were at home and had to account for his 
whereabouts. Therefore, if he is to be taken out of an area on the ground that 
he is under suspicion, he must be looked after in his new location. Hence the 
provision for working internment areas. To take an alien from home, take his 
job away from him, and then turn him loose 15, or even 50, miles away, certainly 
will result in it being impossible for him to get work privately and perhaps make 
the wolf out of him that he would not otherwise be. Hence our conclusion very 
definitely that if dispossessed from their homes and their jobs these aliens must 
immediately be controlled, given subsistence and work. In some instances, meet- 
ing the desire of the Department of Agriculture to keep crops growing, these 
internment areas might be where the men are now employed. 

(5) But, how under our constitutional provisions are we going to get the native- 
born Japanese to leave their homes and work and subject themselves to intern- 
ment under Government rules? 

The answer is that they constitute about 40 percent of the adult Japanese 
population; are very much bewildered and distressed at this time; their inclina- 
tion will be to follow their elderly parents (aliens) if still alive; that if they do 
not accept voluntarily the invitation to put themselves under complete Govern- 
ment control through internment, whatever form it may take, they will then be 
subject to regulations provided in section (5). If the employers do not accept 



11868 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

full responsibility for their actions, they will be discharged and will have nowhere 
to go except to the Government and its internment areas. Without visible means 
of support they are subject to public control. With respect to those who do not 
depend upon jobs for a living, they, for the most part, may have their bank 
accounts blocked; they too will have to have certificates of good character; will 
likely submit themselves to Government direction. 

If in any area there is such failure to comply on behalf of the Japanese American- 
born citizens as to constitute a menace, that section, no matter how small, can 
be put under martial law and these removed. That is certainly much better 
than putting the whole State under martial law and having 7,000,000 people 
register. 

(6) Why not send them east out of what is now a war zone on the Pacific coast 
and where the greatest national danger lies? 

Answer is in section (4) with the provisions that the Government will pay one- 
way fares, thev will stay out of the war zone during the period of the war, and 
the Eastern States where they are to go will not object to receiving them — 
indeed, internment camps may be in those agricultural sections. This is in the 
alternative, but in one instance as illustration, a Kansas farmer is willing to take 
three or four Japanese of good character and put them to work. Further this 
alternate plan will have the value of having people east of the Rockies share this 
war problem rather than just tell us what do to, if they are interested. 

(7) How about the aged people, the infirm, the women and children, aliens, 
and Japanese American-born? 

For the most part they will follow the younger men and the heads of families 
who are subjected to evacuation and internment; but if they do not choose to do 
so, there is no immediate reason why they should not remain where they are 
under the certificates with respect to character and employment for adults pro- 
vided in section (5). There appears no reason for imposing any greater hard- 
ships upon them than the "inconveniences" outlined in section (5) at this time; 
plus the harships incident to them through the able-bodied male members of 
their families being interned — or enrolled in our own Army, where they are 
American subjects. 

These activities mean much expense. They all relate to successful prosecution 
of the war. Thev are therefore part of the national financial obligation. 

The resolution" was formulated to bring to light the problems involved and 
then by suggestions to promote discussions which would result in practical 
solutions giving us our objectives. 

(Resolution referred to above is as follows:) 

Resolution Authorized by Los Angeles County Defense Council Through 
Action by Special Committee, Gordon L. McDonough, Chairman, Feb- 
ruary 11, 1942 

Whereas the executive committee of the Los Angeles Civilian Defense Council, 
following numero\is conferences, has concluded that the restrictions imposed upon 
enemy aliens and Japanese American-born citizens in A and B restricted zones, as 
presently established, are not adequate for the vigorous prosecution of the war or 
the defense of our coast line against invasion or the protection of the civilian 
population; and 

Whereas the Pacific coast of the United States is at the frontier of active war 
and because of natural resources, food products, and manufacturing products, its 
protection from dislovaltv is of vital importance. Citizens of enemy powers in 
California alone number' Italian, 100,910; German, 71,727; Japanese, 33,569. 
Our water, power, transportation, heating and light, and communication facilities 
are vulnerable. Our shore lines are sparsely inhabited with many easy land- 
ing places. 

The hazards arising from these conditions must be guarded agamst to the ut- 
most. The question of individual loyalty is not raised, but as our young men must 
face the fire of the enemy, it is not too much to require that war burdens be borne 
as necessarv bv those remaining at home. The rigors of war should not be im- 
posed unnecessarilv upon women, children, or aged men, regardless of nativity 
or citizenship, but all must do their part actively as well as negatively in support 
of the war. ., . 

Whereas, because the treacherous attack on Pearl Harbor and the evident 
fifth-column activities which were at work to accomplish the enemy's object may 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11869 

be duplicated in Los Angeles County or on the Pacific coast if immediate action 
is not taken; and 

Whereas approximately 40 percent of the Japanese population of California 
reside in Los Angeles County — specifically, according to the latest figures, the 
1940 Census, 36,866 — of whom 13,391 are alien Japanese, 23,475 are Japanese 
American-born citizens; and 

Whereas immediate action is required in order that interference with the produc- 
tion of "must" crops designated by the Department of Agriculture shall be reduced 
to a minimum, because at this time Japanese farmers are in a state of inaction 
resulting from uncertainty as to their future, and whether such spring "must" 
crops are to be produced by them or by American farmers as their successors, 
should be determined now; and 

Whereas the added restrictions recommended by this committee are for the 
protection of the civilian population of Los Angeles County, war industries, public 
utilities, forest resources, military installations, etc., as well as the protection 
from intolerant acts and acts of violence which might be directed against persons 
of the Japanese race: Therefore be it 

Resolved, That (1) we urgently recommend that the Army and the Navy be 
immediately empowered to determine who shall enter and who shall remain in any 
war industry plant, any property of Government ownership or operation, any 
approaches created for the purpose of interchanging commerce between land and 
waters, public land areas, including agricultural domain and national parks, 
national and private forests, all installations such as reservoirs, aqueduct lines, 
pipe lines, and other public utilities, and the production, storage, manufacture,'and 
transportation by pipe line of the oil industry. All necessary! guards toj enforce 
this control should be provided at the expense of the National Government or in 
cooperation with the State and its political subdivisions, or private owners of 
industry. As an initial measure the Army and the Navy shall be requested to 
prohibit the presence of all citizens of enemy powers from the places designated ; 
in addition, to prohibit the presence of all Japanese aliens and Japanese-American 
citizens because of the proximity of California to the Japanese fighting zone. 

(2) All male citizens of enemy countries to be placed under Government 
control immediately; they subsequently to be located on working internment 
areas, where, in agricultural and such other industries as the Government may 
direct, they may be self-supporting under comfortable living conditions. They 
shall be at liberty to invite all dependent members of their families to join them 
and the latter shall thereupon be considered as being interned. 

(3) All native-born male citizens of Japanese descent not selected for Army 
service shall likewise, with their dependents, be invited to take residence and 
occupation in such internment areas and shall thereafter be considered as being 
interned for the period of the war. 

(4) Alternate to the foregoing provisions, citizens'of enemy countries and Japan- 
ese-American citizens with dependent members of their families may remove to 
any section of the United States east of the six most western States and Alaska, 
where no objection is offered by such State, and if necessary the expense of su'ch 
removal will be borne by the National Government. Acceptance of this alternate 
provision shall be subject to the condition that return to the excluded area during 
the period of the war will make the violator subject to fine and imprisonment 
and internment during the war period. 

(5) All citizens of enemy countries and all members of the Japanese race who 
shall remain in the six western States and Alaska will be subject to curfew regu- 
lations imposed by the Government, such as remaining at all times within 5 miles 
of home; to be at home every night from 9 p. m. to 6 a. m. ; cease support or attend- 
ance upon schools using languages of enemy countries; cease support or use of 
any printed matter in languages of such countries; shall not gather in groups 
greater than 25 without Government authorization; shall surrender for safe- 
keeping all radios, weapons of every kind and ammunition therefor; use telephones 
and automotive equipment only within areas and limitations prescribed by Govern- 
ment. Tlaey shall be free from internment only if they — 

(a) take the oath of loyalty to the United States; 

(b) prove they have employment or income which will make them self- 
supporting; 

(c) produce certificate from their employers as to their good character or 
from well-known citizens, if not employed; 

All such evidence jto be 'satisfactory to the National Government. These provi- 
sions shall control, irrespective of age or .sex. 

60396— 42— pt. 31 17 



11870 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

(6) As far as may be found practical, the above provisions will be enforced 
with due regard for' necessity and equity involved in crops now being grown by 
the classes concerned. Wherever practicable, in the judgment of the Army 
and Navy, if such crops can be grown and harvested by those now in control, 
under the equivalent of internment provisions as prescribed by the Government, 
such provisions may be made. . , , ^ j. j.- 

(7) Wherever it is'necessary to invoke restricted martial law to assure protection 
in the Pacific-coast area, as circumstances make necessary, it shall be immediately 
undertaken and all people be evacuated from such area except as they are given 

license to remain. , ,, , . • i j- i * u- u • 

(8) All expenses involved under the foregoing, including losses for which in 
equity reimbursement should be made, shall be borne by the National Govern- 
ment as an incident to national war. . ^ t * , .-i x 

We recommend the foregoing with especial reference to Los Angeles County, 
which we represent, and for such general application on the Pacific coast as the 
other sections involved, in their judgment, may deem wise. 



Exhibit 15. — Statement of Policy and Program for Evacuation 
From Military Areas in Pacific Coast States 

report by helen hackett, acting executive secretary, council of social 

AGENCIES, DEPARTMENT OF THE COMMUNITY WELFARE FEDERATION, 1151 SOUTH 
BROADWAY, LOS ANGELES, CALIF. ^ ,^.„ 

March 5, 1942 

Through its executive committee, the Council of Social Agencies of Los Angeles, 
consisting of 140 social welfare and health agencies in Los Angeles County, wishes 
to express its confidence in the abihties of the Department of Justice, the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation, the Army and Navy Intelhgence Departments, effi- 
ciently and adequately to cope with problems of disloyalty and of sabotage in- 
volved in the existing emergency. May we commend the several Departments 
of the Federal Government on their vigilant seeking out and effective restraint 
of citizens and aliens aUke whose ideologies and actions are inimical to the common 
good and dangerous to our beloved land, its treasured freedoms and institutions. 

W^e as citizens subscribe to the establishment of evacuated areas end strategic 
points and any other actions prudently deemed necessary by the proper Federal 
authorities in the interest of national defense. 

We as citizens believe, however, that all persons in relation to their present 
national danger should be considered as individuals and not according to their 
group or national status, and, therefore, that any indiscriminate forcible mass 
evacuation of entire minority groups— citizens and aliens aUke — is a policy in it- 
self unjust and un-American and fraught with tremendous dangers to the common 
good. If our treatment of our Japanese fellow citizens is to set the pattern for 
our treatment of citizens of other racial and national minority groups, this Nation 
may soon become divided into discordant elements, working at cross purposes, to 
the destruction of our national unity. It is of paramount importance today that 
we be a united people — without unity we cannot hope to wage to ultimate victory 
our war against the Axis Powers. , • • ■ . 

Discrimination against an American citizen on a racial basis is a major stra- 
tegical blunder, for it gives the enemy the opportunity to exploit this conflict 
forced upon America as a war between races. Indiscriminate mass evacuation 
or internment of citizens on a racial basis means ignoring the rights and dignity 
of every human being who is loyal to this country, and is a denial of democracy- 
Such discrimination conforms with the Hitlerian technique of pitting group 
against group as a device to weaken a nation through dissension and to obtain 
power and control for dictatorships. 

United States Attorney General Francis Biddle in a release on December lU, 
1941, has this pertinent observation to make regarding the nature of our na- 
tional struggle: "The enemy has attacked more than the soil of America. He 
has attacked our institutions, our freedoms, the principles on which this Nation 
was founded and has grown to greatness. Every American must remember 
that the war we wage todav is in defense of these principles. It therefore be- 
hooves us to guard them most zealouslv at home. * * * If we create the 
feehng among aliens and other foreign-born that they are not wanted here, we 
shall endanger our national unity. Such an impression could only give aid and 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11871 

comfort to those enemies whose aim it is to infect us with distrust of each other 
and turn aUens in America against America. To do this would be to defeat 
what we ourselves are defending." 

The Department of Justice through its Assistant Chief of Special Defense 
Unit, Mr. R. Keith Kane, speaking before the last National Conference of Social 
Work in Atlantic City, said, "A policy — proscribing enemy aliens as a group 
without regard to individual loyalties — would be repugnant to our most basic 
concepts of fair play and justice." 

The experience of England in attempting to establish a sane "enemy alien 
policy" throws light on problems with which we are now confronted. Immedi- 
ately after the Nazi invasion of the Low Countries, all aliens of enemj- nationalities 
were automatically interned as a result, we believe, of agitation by certain poli- 
ticians and newspapers. The repercussions on this costly, wasteful, and undemo- 
cratic procedure made itself early felt. As a result, the plan of internment was 
discontinued. Bona fide German and other Axis refugees were classified as 
friendly aliens and not subjected to special restrictive regulations. They had 
stamped on their passport this official classification, "Victims of Nazi oppres- 
sion." Their knowledge, their special skills and their loyalty were all utilized 
for British defense. 

In the process of the evacuation of persons from strategic or restricted areas 
we believe that the following factors are worthy of consideration: 

1. Those responsible for the evacuation process should act in the Light not 
only of the requirements of national defense, but also ever conscious of prob- 
lems of human welfare and of future community well-being. 

2. It is of supreme importance that competent and reliable custodians of 
property of evacuees be designated at once, and that their services be made 
immediately available. In this way only will it be possible to forestall such 
deplorable situations as arose in the case of Terminal Island and other already 
evacuated areas. 

3. That the program of the social assistance arm of the Federal Security 
Agency be broadened so as to enable it, with the aid of other departments 
when necessary: 

(a) To care for famihes of interned persons. 

(b) To provide adequately transportation, food, shelter, medical and other 
care for all evacuees. 

(c) To assist in the resettlement of evacuees in certain designated con- 
ditioned areas, and aid in every possible way in their adjuiitment there. 

(d) To provide suitable and productive work for all evacuees. 

(e) To work toward resettlement of evacuees m their normal community 
life upon the conclusion of the emergency. 

(/) To provide the above services also for voluntary evacuees. 

Concluding, may we state that, alongside a firm conviction that any person or 
group of persons, citizen or alien, guilty, in this critical hour, of proven disloyalty 
to America, her freedoms, her principles, her institutions should be summarily 
dealt with; alongside a firm conviction that government can and must protect 
strategic or vital areas from any person or group of persons prudently suspected 
of disloyalty; we hold the firm conviction that the indiscriminate mass evacuation 
of any entire minority group, citizens as well as aliens of enemy nationalities, is 
not only unjust, but gravely dangerous to the common good and to our national 
unity, a concession to unreasoning popular prejudice, an invasion of their rights 
as citizens, and an inroad upon those principles for which their sons and ours 
stand ready to give the "last full measure of devotion." 



Exhibit 16. — Resolution Adopted by the Board of Directors 
OF the Pacific League, Inc., 112 West Ninth Street, Los 
Angeles, Calif. 

Whereas both military and civil authorities are agreed that the safety of the 
entire Pacific coast demands that aU alien enemies be removed from defense 
areas; and 

Whereas a great many people of Japanese nationality are extensively emploj-ed 
in the growing and production of food "supplies e.s.sential to this coast, and 

Whereas the sudden stoppage of such food supplies might create a serious 
food shortage; and 



11872 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Whereas the breaking up of the homes of both aliens and citizens is not in 
keeping with American ideals nor humanitarian, and would impose serious and 
needless hardships on loyal Americans, as well as aliens: Now, therefore, be it 

Resolved, That Pacific League, after careful consideration suggests and urges 
that all Japanese people of both foreign and American birth, be drafted into an 
agricultural division under supervision of the Department of Agriculture of the 
Federal Government in the same manner as draftees of the United States military 
forces are inducted into service. 

That these people be placed on suitable agricultural lands in safe areas, and their 
labor used for the purpose of producing food to supply the needs of the man who 
carries the gun, and that they be compensated for their labor on the same basis 
that draftees in our armed forces are compensated. 

That they be provided with housing, food supplies, and other nece-ssities of 
life, thereby creating a great agricultural army providing both a humanitarian 
and practical solution of this immediate problem and eliminating a menace to 
our general welfare. 

Exhibit 17. — Evacuation of Enemy Aliens and Descendants of 

Such Aliens 

report by mr. a. c. price, chairman los angeles county chapter american 
association of social workers, 206 south spring st., los angeles, calif. 

March 6, 1942. 

The executive committee of the Los Angeles Chapter of the American Associa- 
tion ot Social Workers wishes to bring to the attention of your committee some of 
the basic principles which we believe should be observed in the evacuation of the 
citizens of enemy countries and American-born descendants of such aliens. 

We feel that the forced mass evacuation of aliens and citizens on a racial or 
national group basis would nailitate against the principles for which our country 
is waging war against the forces ot tyranny and intolerance. 

We further feel that proper precautions for health, property, and special personal 
problems should be taken in the process of evacuation, if such evacuation is deemed 
necessary for the defense of the Nation. 

We urge that every possible assistance be rendered to the citizen and alien desig- 
nated for evacuation in order to prevent current widespread hysteria against 
them, race hatred, exploitation and acts of violence, and in order to offset the fear, 
insecurity, and hardship prevalent among them, sowing eeeds for many problems 
for them and for our country now and after peace has been attained. 

We wish to emphasize that we have full confidence in the Federal authorities 
responsible for protection against actions by agents of enemy countries and dis- 
loyal citizens. We strongly endorse the actions ot the Federal Department, the 
Army, and the Federal Security Agency in making provisions for the handling 
of welfare and health needs of the alien and citizen alike who is to ,be evacuated. 
We urge that this i)rograni of social assistance be extended in order to fully cope 
with the problem. 

Finally, we stand ready to assist individually and organizationally in carrying 
out a sound and just program to meet the needs of the situation at the points 
of evacuation, reception, and resettlement. We believe greater thoughtfulness 
at this time in plans for the adjustment of, interpretation to, and protection 
for this group will hold us to a greater degree to the standards of Americanism. 



Exhibit 18. — Resolution Passed by the Japanese Church 
Federation at the Thirty-first Annual Conference Ses- 
sions Held at the Church Federation Headquarters, 3330 
West Adams, Los Angeles, January 21, 1942 

SUBMITTED BY REV. JOHN M. YAMAZAKI, LOS ANGELES, CALIF. 

Be it Resolved, That at the annual meeting of the .Japanese Church Federation 
of Southern California, meeting in Los Angeles, Calif., January 19-21, 1942, the 
following resolution was unanimously adopted: 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11873 

"We, the ministers of the Japanese churches of Christ in Southern CaUfornia 
hereby express our feehng and conviction, our sense of duty and responsibihty 
to the American people at this time of crises. 

"Suddenly we have been brought face to face with the grim and heart-rending 
reality of war between America and Japan, the land of our birth and the country 
of our adoption. To us it is a grave tragedy because we believed that nothing 
could break the long friendship and economic and intellectual relationships be- 
tween our countries. But now that this relationship has been broken by cruel 
war, we wish to put on record and express that which we have deeply believed and 
striven for during many years. 

"Most of our people have been permanent residents of the United States for 
many years. Those of the first generation would, for the most part, have become 
citizens long ago had not the laws of the Nation debarred us. We have raised our 
families here. Our children, according to our wishes and teachings, are loyal 
citizens. The Government of the United States has through the years given us 
security; and with all Americans we have enjoyed the fundamental freedoms on 
which the Nation is founded. For all of this we are deeply and profoundly 
grateful. 

"We have beheved in and sincerely appreciated American institutions and 
ideals, and the American way of life. 

"We have striven through the years, not only to guide our people to a full 
realization of our privileges and place in American life, but also to lead them into 
the stream of American thought and ideals, and into the enriching experiences of 
the Christian way of life. 

"We have had the rich fellowship and cooperation of the Federal Council of 
Churches of Christ in America and other interchurch organizations. Between us 
there has been no discrimination ; there has always been friendship, understanding, 
and the spirit of sharing. 

"We have had the equal protection and fair treatment of the Government of the 
United States throughout these years. We are now in the midst of war; but 
even in this tragic hour in all directions we meet kindness, sympathy, and under- 
standing of our difficult situation by the general pubhc, especially the Christians. 
We meet constantly the spirit of American fairness and justice. 

"We have always prayed and hoped for peace and harmony between the two 
nations. We shall now strive with whatever sacrifice we can make that out of 
this tragedy something finer and truer may be realized in the future. We, there- 
fore, renew our allegiance to the country of our adoption, the United States of 
America, in this crisis. 

"We resolve and urge upon our fellow Christians, to redouble all efforts to serve 
the Nation in any capacity possible; ever more so in spreading the service of the 
gospel of Jesus Christ. 

"We exhort them in the words of St. Paul 'that supplications, prayers, inter- 
cessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all that are in high places and that we 
lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and gravity.' 

"We take to heart the words of our Lord Jesus when He said, 'Whosoever would 
save his hfe shall lose it.' We feel profoundly that in this tragic hour we are 
called to bear the cross of Christ; to give our lives for those great principles for 
which Christ gave His life." 



Exhibit 19. — Tabulation for Evacuation on Community Group 

Basis 

The following tabulation was submitted by the Catholic Foreign Mission Society 
of America, popularly known as Maryknoll, which maintains a mission and school 
in Los Angeles. About INIarch 1 the mission began to register the families of all 
470 of the students enrolled in the school. The Maryknoll priests also enrolled 
other Japanese families who expressed a like desire to evacuate voluntarily under 
the protection of the United States Army and under the direction of the Maryknoll 
fathers. The registration and tabulation were supervised by Brother Theophane 
of the mission school The first major evacuation undertaken by the Army was a 
group of these registrants. 



11874 



LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



This registration originally was divided into Maryknoll and non- Mary knoll 
groups. The purpose of the registration was to move the Maryknoll people on 
a community-group basis. As a result of the widespread desire to move in com- 
munity groups, more people registered than could be moved on such a basis. 

Distribution, by age and occupation, of heads of families registering with the Maryknoll 

Alission 





Present occupation 


Occupation in which applicant 
has had most experience 




Total 


Under 
46 


45 to 
69 


60 and 
over 


Total 


Under 
45 


45 to 
59 


60 and 
over 


Merchant . 


8 
1 


3 

1 


4 


1 


7 
2 
1 
4 
3 
1 
6 
2 
5 
2 
1 
1 
2 
1 
2 
1 
4 
1 
3 
1 
1 


2 

1 
1 
4 
1 
1 
4 

' 3' 

I 


3 

1 


2 
















2 
2 
1 
3 


2 
1 

1 
2 












1 




1 


1 






Dry goods 


1 




1 
2 
2 


1 






Dairy 






















1 












1 




1 
1 






1 






1 




1 




2 

1 
2 

2 

1 
2 
1 
































1 

5 


j- 


i 


"2 


1 






2 
















1 






3 

1 
1 


1 


2 

1 






Stock broker - 


1 








Laborer 






6 


4 


2 






i 

18 
1 
3 
1 
1 


1 
14 

1 
2 

1 
1 










4 




9 


9 












Office . . -. 


1 




4 
4 
7 
1 
44 
10 
1 
1 
1 


3 

1 
7 

34' 

8 

1 
1 


1 
3 






















1 
8 
2 




Clerk 


30 
10 


24 
8 


4 
2 


2 


2 


Printer 


































1 


















Total 


95 
2 

1 


68 

1 


21 


6 
1 


139 
1 
1 
1 
6 
15 
2 


97 


30 


12 




1 




4- 
11 


1 
1 
2 
4 
2 










9 

14 

5 

1 


7 
13 
2 


2 
1 
3 
1 






Clerk 




Merchant 






















127 


91 


29 


7 


165 


112 


40 


13 







NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11875 



Distribution, by age and occupation, of persons in farnilies registering with the 

Maryknoll Mission 





Present occupation 


Occupation in which applicant 
has had most experience 




Total 


Under 
46 


45 to 
59 


60 and 
over 


Total 


Under 
45 


45 to 
59 


60 and 
over 




27 
7 
8 
5 

52 
2 
4 

15 

23 
6 

12 
2 
3 
4 
15 
2 
193 
18 
14 
19 
265 


20 
7 
5 
3 

18 
2 
3 
8 
7 
4 
3 

12 
2 
3 
2 
4 
1 

48 

8 

2 

5 

123 


5 


2 


44 
5 
7 
6 

63 
4 
6 

37 

90 
5 

11 

11 
1 
3 
3 
9 
5 
226 

17 
5 

13 

208 

3 

15 
2,047 

13 

40 

6 

488 

172 

9 

16 

2 

135 

18 

61 
2 
3 
1 
1 
1 


34 
5 
3 
3 

19 

I 

21 

39 
4 
6 

11 
1 
2 
1 
3 
4 

87 

2 

3 
91 

3 

13 
884 

2 
37 

4 
231 
86 

7 
10 

1 
25 

7 

1 
1 
_. 


10 








Artist . 


3 

2 

24 


16' 


4 
3 

23 

1 

1 

12 

31 

1 
5 











21 


Bath house operator . - 


1 


Beautv operator . -- -- 


1 
6 
11 

1 
4 


f 
5 
1 






4 


Carpenter - 


20 


Cabinet worker 




Chauffeur 




Chick sexor 














Clothing manufacturer 






1 
2 

5 
1 

51 

8 

1 

7 

89 




Collectors .. - .- 


2 

8 

1 

92 

8 

5 

10 

113 


3" 

S3' 
2 

7 
4 
29 




Confectioners 


1 






Cook 


88 


Dentist 


2 


Dish washer - 


2 


Doctor - - - .. 


3 




2» 


Draftsman . 






6 

1,144 

18 

16 

6 

835 

215 

13 

17 

2 

190 

22 

36 

2 

4 


5 
484 

5 
14 

3 
421 
122 

9 
13 

2 
37 
10 
10 

1 

4 


1 

354 

11 

2 

"""312" 

78 
4 
4 


'""3O6' 
2 

'3' 

102 
15 


. 2 

750 

9 

3 

'"'178' 

64 

2 

6 

1 

75 

10 

33 

1 

2 

1 




Farmer - 


413 




2 


Fishermen 






2 




79 


Grocer_ 


22 


Fish 




Butcher .- 




Hardware 




Hotel operator . . 


111 
10 
19 

1 


42 
2 

7 


36 




1 


Janitor 


21 


Japanese bakerv - 








Miso 








Noodle factory - 












Shoyu 












1 


Srshi 


2 

7 
12 
20 
64 
58 
85 
2 
4 


1 

4 

6 

11 

22 

29 

38 

2 

4 


1 
3 
2 
8 
27 
23 
31 










Tofu-ya.. --- 


.- 

1 
15 

6 
16 


6 

11 

20 

101 

77 

71 

1 

1 


3 

5 

10 

38 

33 

30 

1 

1 


3 

3 

7 

44 

35 

30 






3 


Journalist 


3 




19 


Laundry 


9 




11 


Spotter 
























Lumberjack 










3 

212 

32 

5 

164 

8 

125 

3 

16 

121 

73 

28 

1 

4 

5 

17 

16 

17 

8 

2 

4 

4 

192 

47 


3 

156 

23 

2 

148 

2 

98 

2 

9 

66 

38 

10 

1 

3 

3 

12 
5 
4 
2 
2 
3 
3 
124 
31 






M arket worker 


281 

47 

6 

95 

9 

82 

1 

8 

157 

92 

71 

1 

4 

1 

22 

10 

9 

12 


220 
37 

4 
83 

3 
67 


51 
9 
2 
9 
2 

13 


10 

1 

1' 

4 
2 
1 

26' 

11 
11 


51 

7 

3 

14 

3 

23 

1 

5 

34 

30 

12 


6 




2 


Swamper 






2 


Masseur .- 


3 


Mechanic 


4 


Milliner 




Nurses _.- 


6 

83 

45 

35 

1 

3 

1 

15 

6 

1 

4 


2 
48 
36 
25 


2 


Nursery . 


21 


Florists 


6 


Flower grower 


6 






Optometrist 


1 




1 

1 
4 
9 
9 
5 




Painter 


1 


Pharmacist 


5 
2 
2 
6 


2 
2 
6 
2 


1 


Photographer 


2 


Plumber 


4 


Poultry 


1 


Projectionist . - 




Reverends . 


5 

5 

175 

13 


4 

4 

125 


1 

1 


' 9" 

1 


f 
56 
16 


1 


Salesgirls 






12 


Seamstress 





11876 



LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



Distribution, by age and occupation, of persons in families registering with the 
Maryknoll Mission — Continued 





Present occupation 


Occupation in which applicant 
has had most experience 




Total 


Under 
46 


45 to 
59 


60 and 
over 


Total 


Under 
45 


45 to 
59 


60 and 
over 




14 

8 


12 
3 


2 
5 




23 
11 

1 
4 
26 
19 
6 
1 


17 
2 


4 
5 


2 


Shoe repairer 


4 




1 




2 
22 

7 
3 


1 
6 
5 
2 


1 


1 
3 
1 
1 


1 
4 
8 
4 

1 


3 
15 
6 

1 




Tailor . - 


7 




5 


Music . - 


1 




















Teller 


3 

1 
35 

15 


3 

is' 

12 






5 


5 








1 

15 
3 










2 


30 

19 

5 

3 

54 

26 

122 

302 

107 

542 

3 

2 


14 

14 

5 

2 

39 

16 

39 

230 

107 

214 

2 

1 


12 

5 


4 


AVaitress 




Welder 






2 

20 

40 

170 

404 

128 

1,091 

2 

6 

1 


2 

18 

26 

55 

310 

128 

419 

_. 

1 







1 
15 

8 
58 
59 




Cashier -- 


2 

12 
86 
82 


2 
29 

12 






<> 




25 




13 


Student 






399 
2 

1 


273 


191 

1 
1 


137 






Wholesale market 














2 

1 
2 


2 


2 






1 
2 

1 
12 


1 
2 

4 




















1 
6 








Poolhall - - --- 


2 


13 


3 


8 


2 






Total 


6,579 


3,334 


2,190 


1,055 


6,536 


3,275 


2,195 


1.066 







Number of persons by size of family ^ 



Size of family 


Number of 
families 


Number of 
persons 


Size of family 


Number of 
families 


Number of 
persons 




1,687 

1,003 

1,053 

1, 120 

858 

586 

294 

159 


1,687 
2,006 
3,159 
4,480 
4,290 
3,516 
2,058 
1,272 


9 persons .- 


55 

35 

14 

6 

1 
2 


495 




10 persons _.- 


350 




11 persons 


154 




12 persons 


72 




13 persons 

14 persons - - 


13 




28 




Total.... _ 






6,873 






23, 580 







1 Families registering with the Maryknoll Mission, Los Angeles, for evacuation on community-group 
basis. 

Distribution, by age and sex ' 
Male: 

Under 1 year 159 

1 to 5 vears 918 

6 to 14 vears 1> 677 

15 to 19 years 1. 680 

20 to 44 years 4,844 

45-59 vears 2, 137 

60 years 1, 180 

Subtotal 12,595 



1 Persons in families registering with the Maryknoll Mission, Los .\ngeles, for evacuation on community 
group basis. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11877 



Distribution, by age and sex — Continued 
Female : 

Under 1 year 163 

1 to 5 years 893 

6 to 14 vears 1, 663 

15 to 19 vears 1, 768 

20 to 44 vears 1 4, 711 

45 to 59 years 1, 519 

60 years 268 

Subtotal 10, 985 

Grand total 23, 580 

Nu}yiber of individuals unable to move because of health in families registering with 
the Maryknoll Mission 

Temporarily unable to move 283 

Permanently unable to move . 91 

Pregnant women 101 

Total .475 

Transportation equipment, by age and type, owned by faynilies registering with the 

Maryknoll Mission 

PASSENGER CARS 





Coupe 


Sedan 


Total 


Under Syears 


469 
781 


1,544 
1,373 


2,013 


5 vears and over 


2,154 






TRUCKS 




Pick-up 


IVi tons 


2 tons 


Over 2 
tons 


Total 


Under 5 years. ._ 


477 

795 


255 

484 


42 
61 


19 

28 


763 


5 vears and over .. 


1,368 







Exhibit 20. — Statement by Shuji Fujii, Isamu Noguchi, George 
Watanabe, p. O. Box 2845 Terminal Annex, Los Angeles, 
Calif. 

March 7, 1942. 

To eliminate the great confusion that now exists in the Japanese communities 
and to integrate the problem of evacuation and resettlement with the successful 
prosecution of the war, we respectfully submit the following for consideration: 

1. The Federal Government shall assume full responsibility for both evacua- 
tion and resettlement by — 

(a) Regulation of private groups who have volunteered to cooperate only after 
the Army order was issued for evacuation, and who now seek preferential treat- 
ment. 

(6) Assurance that evacuation will be carried out in an equitable manner by 
first moving those from vital defense areas and those without home, work, or 
money. 

2. Establish at processing stations Federal hearing boards for examination 
and certification, so that only those persons who by their past records and present 
activities have proven their loyalty may be placed in positions of leadership in 
the new communities for the purpose of — 

(o) Education and morale building of those who are confused. 

(6) Engagement in intelligence work and vigilance against any fifth-column 
or subversive elements. 

In testing for loyalty, we wish to point out that loyalty is not entirely a matter 
of citizenship or educational background, nor a matter of religious or political 
affiliation. 



11878 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Exhibit 21. — Statement by Hoktjbei Okinawa Kiyokai, 519 
South AIaple Avenue, Los Angeles, Calif. 

March 7, 1942. 
Representative John H. Tolan, 

Chairman, Congressional Investigating Committee, 

State Building, Los Angeles, Calif. 
Dear Sir: Enclosed are copies of the statement and resolution adopted at the 
special meeting held at Maryknoll School, February 8, 1942, and a copy of the 
statement giving a brief history i and background of the Hokubei Okinawa 
Kiyokai. 

The wartime emergency committee of the Hokubei Okinawa Kiyokai (North 
America Okinawa Association) adopted the following resolution at its special 
meeting held on Sunday, February 15, 1942: 

"resolution 

"The Hokubei Okinawa Kiyokai, in line with wartime national policy of the 
American Government, resolved that its members, both Japan born and their 
American children, are ready and willing, vokmtarily and collectively, to evacuate 
from their present place of residences to the interior, which would be designated 
by the authorities, and to engage in farming or other work suitable for national 
defense under Government direction and assistance. This resolution to be for- 
warded to the Governor of the State of California, and other governmental 
agencies concerned. 

"The Wartime Emergency Committee 

OF THE Hokubei Okinawa Kiyokai." 
February 15, 1942. 

The association sincerely wishes for guidance by State and local authorities as 
well as Federal Government. 
Sincerely yours, 

Shingi Nakamura, Chairman. 

"resolution 

"We, the first and second generation members of the Hokubei Okinawa Kiyokai, 
who have alwaj's lived under the protection and enjoyed the benefits of American 
democracy, have upheld the democratic sj^stem since the very inception of our 
organization. At this time when democratic America is waging a life-and-death 
struggle against the military fascism of Japan which so treacherously began this 
war by attacking Pearl Harbor, we resolve the following: 

"1. To make clearer than ever the democratic stand of our association. 

"2. To put into effect the proposals and plans laid out in our statement through 
the emergency executive committee. 

"3. To give our fullest support through above means to the Government in her 
efiforts to achieve final victory. 

"Executive Council, Hokubei Okinawa Kiyokai." 
February 8, 1942. 

Adopted at the emergency meeting of the Council of the Hokubei Okinawa 
Kij'okai (North America Okinawa Association) held on Sunday February 8,1942, 
at the Maryknoll School Hall, 222 Hewitt Street, Los Angeles, Calif. 

statement 

Friendship between the United States of America and Japan came to an abrupt 
end on the morning of December 7, 1941, when the militarj- lords of Japan 
treacherously bombed Pearl Harbor even as the Hull-Normua peace talk was 
proceeding. The two countries are now at war. 

The President of the United States, as is well known, made it clear on numerous 
occasions, such as December 9 broadcast and others, that the United States is 
waging a war against the military fascists of Japan, but not against her common 
people. 

' Historical statement held in committee files 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11879 

The January 2 speech of the President, warning against the practice of dis- 
charging noncitizen employees, as well as the fair treatment accorded the resident 
Japanese, convince us very clearly that the war aim of the United States is the 
complete defeat of the Axis Powers, including Japan ruled by the militarist 
clique. 

The present war is not a racial war, as it is so persistently propagated by the 
Japanese militarists. 

Since the declaration of war by Germany and Italy against the United States 
on December 11, the war became a life-and-death struggle between the two 
opposing camps: Axis and the an ti- Axis powers; Hitlerite camp and the democ- 
racies. 

At this extraordinary crisis, we who believe in the ultimate victory of the 
democratic camp, and who pledge to fight side by side with America for freedom 
and independence throughout the world, and in Japan, hereby state publicly that 
we reorganized our association to meet war-time need, and for the moment, through 
the following measures, give our fullest support to the war efforts of the United 
States of America. 

Measures 

1. Formation of emergency council. 

2. To make it clear to the membership America's war aim as well as cardinal 

principle upon which democratic America is founded and thereby con- 
tribute to the strengthening of national unity. 

3. To cooperate with the central as well as local authorities regarding preven- 

tion of fifth-column activities. 

4. To contribute to the national defense by producing more as advised by 

Governor Olson. 

5. To cooperate with loyal American citizens of Japanese descent in their 

anti-Axis activities. 

HoKUBEi Okinawa Ktokai. 

(Adopted at the emergency meeting of the council of the Hokubei Okinawa 
Kyokai — North America Okanawa Association— held on Sunday, February 8, 
1942, at the Maryknoll School Hall, 222 Hewitt Street, Los Angeles, Calif.) 



Exhibit 22. — Statement by Lion Feuchtwanger, 1744 Mande- 
viLLE Canyon Road, West Los Angeles, Calif. 

March 5, 1942. 

According to the regulations I had to register as enemy alien, and now, being 
considered an enemy alien, I see myself menaced to be removed from my home in 
West Los Angeles. Therefore I beg to apply to the Honorable Chairman John 
H. Tolan and his congressional committee by making the following statement: 

Since the year of 1922 I have been fighting against the spread of naziism. I 
have written a number of novels dealing with the rise of the Nazis and the threat 
to civilization by naziism. I have published articles against the Nazis in the 
leading reviews, magazines, and newspapers all over the world. I broadcasted 
against the Nazis in the capitals of the world. My anti-Nazi books have been 
translated into many languages, their circulation amounts to millions of copies. 
My material is copiously used by the underground movem.ent against fascism in 
Geruiany, in Italy, and even in Japan. Leading papers of this country, of Eng- 
land, of the Soviet L'nion, and even ot China have repeatedly declared my literary 
activity an efficient weapon in the struggle against the Nazis. My plays and my 
pictures against the Nazis have been shown to millions of people. British pilots 
over Germany dropped leaflets quoting from my books. The Soviet Government 
spread my books and my films in order to spur the fighting spirit against Nazi 
Germany. The President of the French Republic before the codapse, English 
Cabinet Ministers, the Soviet Prime Minister, and members of the Government 
of this country asked to meet me and to hear my opinions on the struggle against 
naziism. 

The Nazis themselves consider me as a very dangerous enemy, according to 
the public speeches of the German Minister of Propaganda. Hitler himself, 
rnany other Nazi leaders and Nazi papers attacked me. I was abused in numerous 
Nazi broadcasts. Thus, by the threat of the Nazis, I was forced to leave Germany 
in November 1932 already. My Berlin home was looted as one of the first in 
February 1933, my library was destroyed, my books were burnt, my fortune was 



11880 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

confiscated. Albert Einstein and I were the first to be warned by the German 
Government that we would lose our German citizenship. In fact, on August 23, 
1933, the German Government announced officially that I, together with twenty- 
odd others, had lost my German citizenship. 

At the outbreak of this war I lived in France and was interned on account of 
general measures. 

This fact aroused astonishment everywhere, especially in the United States, 
and many newspapers elaborated their reports on my internment with ironical 
comments on the French authorities. And the Nazis gloated over it in their 
newspapers and in their broadcasts. I just published a book on my experiences 
in France and how I was involved in French red tape. This book, The Devil in 
France, met with much interest in this country. 

Should I definitely be classified as an enemy alien and removed from my home 
in West Los Angeles, the consequences would be rather critical for my future 
work. For months, I would have to interrupt my present work on an anti-Nazi 
novel, and my planned activities for anti-Nazi pictures would be frustrated. 
There is no question that the Nazis would be pleased if they heard about such 
measures against me. 

Many others, probably almost all of those Germans who have immigrated into 
the United States since 1933 and were not yet able to acquire their American 
citizenship, are in a similar situation. Most of these people, however, have not 
only nothing in common with the political structure of today's Germany, but 
they are the natural enemies of the present German Government. Among three 
groups at least of these immigrants (since 1933) the percentage of potential Nazi 
s^ympathizers is by no means higher than among the average inhabitants of this 
country. Those groups of the so-called German enemy aliens could be classified 
rather easily: 

(1) All those who lost their German citizenship by edict of the German Ministry 
of the Interior before September 3, 1939. These people are listed by name on 
lists published in the German Reichsanzeiger. Only such people are named in 
these lists who, according to the opinion of the present German Government, 
have impaired the interests of the German Reich. In every single case it could 
easily be demonstrated how far these people proved to be Nazi enemies. 

(2) All those people who could not obtain a German passport so that they were 
forced to travel on other identification papers. 

(3) All those who can produce actual evidence of their activities against the 
Nazis before America's entrance into the war. 

Outstanding immigrants of German descent would gladly be willing to assist 
the American authorities in the possible inquiry of anti-Nazi activities. 

It seems obvious that the reclassification of the so-called German enemy aliens 
according to such or similar principles would be fair and useful. 



Exhibit 23. — Statement by George Simmel, 2231 West Fifteenth 
Street, Los Angeles, Calif. 

March 11, 1942. 

As publisher of the Friendly Adviser, the local paper for the immigrants in 
Los Angeles, I was invited to give a report on the activities of the German refugees 
in Los Angeles and their commercial and cultural contributions. 

A number of these immigrants are already American citizens. Most of the 
others have been in Los Angeles for about 3 to 4 years. They are studying 
American history in the public schools and they hope to become citizens of the 
LTnited States in the near future. I am sure that each of them will do his best 
to fulfill the duties as an American citizen is expected to do. 

Among the newcomers from Germany, there are numerous experts in many 
diff"erent lines. They manufacture goods in Los Angeles that had to be imported 
before. For instance: 

Textiles and ceramics in Viennese and German style. Articles of food and 
candies in Swiss, French, and German kind. They brought over an invention 
for making self-heating cans, a new process for color photography, and patents 
for the manufacturing of motors and tools. 

Art dealers imported treasures of antique art; internationally known physicians, 
psychoanalysts and other scientists from Germany work now in Los Angeles. 

Another part of the immigrants invested their money in Government bonds, 
shares, real estate, and business enterprises. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11881 

Such enterprises are: Factories for clothes, for articles of food, wood-manu- 
facture, luxuries, novelties, chemical industry ; furthermore chicken farms, markets, 
restaurants, apartment houses, garages, gas stations, van and storage companies, 
real estate agencies, five-and-ten-cent stores. Some immigrants are watch re- 
pairers, mechanics, radio servicemen, photographers, gardeners, tailors, dress- 
makers, shoe repairers, painters, cabinetmakers, upholsterers, masseuses, public 
accountants, and representatives of many different kinds of business. 

All these enterprises employ Americans or work for American business interests. 
They consume continually American-made materials and goods. 

The employed immigrants work in every kind of factories, in wholesale or 
retail stores. Many of them attended or still attend trade schools in Los Angeles 
to adapt themselves to the Americna way of business. 

Quite a number of refugees are housekeepers, chauffeurs, butlers. 

Famous German actors, writers, and composers are among the refugees in 
Los Angeles. Many of the latters' publications have proved to be also a com- 
mercial success for American business. All these artists, through the medium 
of their art, help to fight Nazi Germany. 

May I add that young immigrants are serving in the Army, other immigrants 
are. united in the auxiliary company of the California State Guard. Many 
refugee women are members of the Red Cross. Men and women help in air pro- 
tection, contribute to blood donation and so on. 

These refugees from Germany were the first victims of Nazi persecution. They 
are grateful to be given the chance of a new start in Los Angeles. 



Exhibit 24. — Statement by Adolph Loewi, ex-German, Formerly 
Consul of the German Democratic Weimar Government in 
Venice, Italy, 1331 Miller Drive, Los Angeles, Calif. 

March 8, 1942. 

I was present yesterday when you gentlemen of the Tolan committee had to 
struggle under an avalanche of words and I admire the patience and kindness with 
which you underwent the exhausting hearing of the minorities affected by the 
recent order of evacuation. 

Strangely to say, with all the excellent speeches practically few concrete proposi- 
tions have been made. You know now the background of the great majority of 
the refugees, you heard about their sufferings, and about the ideals which are at 
stake. But you gentlemen probably knew all this before, and no doubt can be 
that you most sympathetically will propose a solution which would diminish the 
harm to these people if a way can be found which will not compromise the military 
necessities which are paramount. Of all the witnesses, it seems to me only Dr. F. 
Guggenheim gave a practical contribution to the problem of classification of the 
Germans and Italians. 

Before coming to my proposal of the eventual procedure, I want to answer 
Congressman Curtis to a remark which you made in the course of the debate. 
You told us about the sacrifice which in your home town of 1,700 people a dealer 
of goods which, due to priorities, cannot be manufactured any longer, has to 
suffer, though he has three sons in the Army. But, dear Mr. Curtis, would this 
sacrifice which I am sure is offered in a really patriotic spirit, be borne just as 
gladly if at the same time one labeled that decent and patriotic man an enemy 
of the Nation? • 

Since December 7, we refugees have been fighting not to be excluded from 
sacrifice, but to be included and to have the privilege of bearing our share. We 
want to do our part and more. And even the evacuation, with all its terrific 
consequences for people who finally found a haven and have no reserves, economic 
or otherwise, even the evacuation will be loyally accepted if it is a military 
necessity, if there is no other way of safeguarding the vital defense of the Pacific 
coast. But is there really no other way? Let us look at the picture. 

General De Witt has been pictured to us as a tough soldier and thank God 
that a tough soldier is at this post at this time. His duty is to eliminate from the 
Pacific coast any group of persons which potentially contains a higher average 
of traitors, spies, and fifth columists than the average of the Nation. But if 
there is the possibility — easily to achieve, as I will show later on — to break up 
such a group into smaller, well defined groups, and it then can be proved that 



11882 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

one or more of the resulting units not only do not contain more potential traitors 
than the average of the Nation, but actually less, is it not highly desirable from 
any point of view that the men and women of this group be cleared of the label 
of enemy aliens? 

You gentlemen have been shown in Los Angeles and the other coast centers 
that the expatriates and refugees are the most bitter enemies of Hitler and of 
everything he stands for. Should one really — when one can avoid it so easily — 
give Adolph Hitler and his fellow gangsters the enormous pleasure to see the 
people whom he hates most in the world, the men and women who stood up 
against him and the men and women that he drove from their homes treated as 
if they were Nazis? It would be a victory for him and one that can be avoided. 

If the United States accept in principle to make a division of the enemy aliens 
of German and Italian lineage and want to exempt any group of them that can 
actually be proven to be highly reliable, these groups can be defined: There are, 
according to the 1940 registration, 19,000 Germans in California, 1,800 in Oregon, 
and 3,000 in Washington. Since 1940 the total number must have declined 
through naturalization, and any newcomers could only be refugees as no Germans 
could leave their country in wartime. Of this total of about 23 or 24 thousand 
Germans, nearly half, 10 or 11 thousand persons are refugees, are families who 
had to leave Germany for reasons of political, racial or religious persecution, and, 
besides having taken out the first papers of the United States citizenship, have 
lost their German citizenship through legal action of the Hitler government. The 
Federal Bureau of Investigation today, with the second registration concluded, 
can compile the exact list of these stateless persons without difficulty. And 
whatever the Federal Bureau of Investigation, which is doing such excellent work, 
should not know about these refugees, we ourselves can find out. Give us the 
permission to cooperate, and in 2 weeks — I say 2 weeks — these — about 4,000 
families could be investigated by an advisory board composed of trusted refugees 
under the presidency of an officer of the Department of Justice. It is nearly 
impossible that an imposter could stand up under the questions about school and 
occupation and family background in the old country which such a board could 
fire at him. After the exemption of this first and most numerous group, which 
could be completed before the evacuation of the enormous mass of Japanese and 
American Japanese is finished, there might be set up a tribunal which could judge 
about the relatively small number of German expatriates, who still have the 
status of German citizens but are genuine victims of their democratic convictions 
and their love of liberty. 

I do not know the figures of the Italian citizens and excitizens involved but I 
should imagine that verj' similar facts will be found to exist. 

There is onlj-^ one more point to be mentioned. Whilst the problem of the 
Japanese and the grave problem of the Japanese- Americans is burdened with the 
enormous number of persons involved and the deep-rooted feelings of the popula- 
tions of the Pacific States against them, none of these factors exists for the Ger- 
man expatriates. Their number is relatively small, they are well-defined and no 
objection will be found among the so friendly populations of California, Oregon, 
and Washington, which would force to evacuate the German refugees for reasons 
of public morale or safety of the persons involved. On the contrary, gentlemen, 
the whole country, including zones not touched directly, would be thankful to 
the Tolan committee for having shown that the United States can be tough 
where it is necessary but will not unnecessarily compromise the life and property 
of thankful, loyal, and proud future citizens. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGEATION 



THURSDAY, MARCH 12, 1942 

House of Representatives, 
Select Committee Investigating 

National Defense Migration, 

Washington, D. C. 

The committee met at 9:45 a. m., in room 965, 1355 Market Street, 
San Francisco, Calif., pursuant to notice. 

Present were: Leonard A. Thomas, counsel, presiding; Dr. Robert 
K. Lamb, staff director; John W. Abbott, chief field investigator; 
Herbert Roback, investigator; and F. P. Weber, economist. 

Mr. Thomas. The committee will please come to order. 

First of all, I want to offer an apology for the chairman and the 
committee for not being present this morning, but they were called 
back to Washington, Mr. Tolan left on Tuesday evening. 

The purpose of this conference this morning is to put into the record 
some pertinent material that the committee felt they had to have 
before our record would be complete. 

This morning we are going to call two witnesses who have filed 
applications for secoiid papers in connection with their proposed 
naturalization to show, for the purposes of the record, what length of 
time has elapsed since they filed those applications and what status 
their particular case is now in. 

We will then call on representatives of those who are engaged in 
naturalization work, and we will have an informal round-table dis- 
cussion here as to some of the problems that confront the naturaliza- 
tion workers. 

The first witness we would like to call is Mrs. Fioretti. 

TESTIMONY OF MRS. ENRICHETTA EMMA FIORETTI, 1473 
FRANCISCO STREET, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF. 

Mr. Thomas. Mrs. Fioretti, would you give your full name and your 
address to the reporter? 

Mrs. Fioretti. Mrs. Enrichetta Emma Fioretti, 1473 Francisco 
Street, San Francisco. 

Mr. Thomas. Are you an American citizen, Mrs. Fioretti? 

Mrs. Fioretti. No. 

Mr. Thomas. Are you married to an American citizen? 

Mrs. Fioretti. Yes. 

Mr. Thomas. Where were you bom? 

Mrs. Fioretti. In Italy. 

Mr. Thomas. How long have you been m the United States? 

Mrs. Fioretti. Twenty-one years. 

11883 



11SS4 LOS ANGELES AND SAX FRAXCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Thomas. Were you married in the United States? 

Mrs. FiORETTi. Yes. 

Mr. Thomas. How many years ago? 

Mrs. FioRETTi. Xmeteen. 

Mr. Thomas. Have you any children? 

Mrs. FioRETTi. Two boys. 

Mr. Thomas. How old are they? 

Mrs. FiORETTi. One is 15 and the other is 12. 

Mr. Thomas. Is your husband in business here in San Francisco? 

Mrs. FioRETTi. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tno^fAS. Is he a veteran of the last war? 

Mrs. FiORETTi. Yes. 

Mr. Thomas. Have you filed an application for a petition for 
naturalization? 

Mrs. FiORETTi. Yes. 

Mr. Thomas. ^Mien did you tile that? 

Mrs. FiORETTi. September 13, 1940. 

Mr. Thomas. Has anytiiing happened to that since that tune? 

Mrs. FiORETTi. Xo. I have had my examination. 

Mr. Thomas. You have had an exammation? 

Mrs. FiORETTi. Yes; December S, 19-41. 

Mr. Thomas. But you have not as yet taken your oath of alle- 
giance"? 

Mrs. FiORETTi. Xo. 

Mr. Thomas. AA'oukl you have to move from where you hve m San 
Francisco because you are an enemy alien? 

Mrs. FiORETTi. Xo, not yet ; but I don't Imow when. 

Mr. Thomas. You would be the only one m 3-our family that 
might possibly have to move? 

Nil's. FiORETTi. Yes. _ ' 

Mr. Thomas. Both your children were born in this country? 

Mrs. FiORETTi. Yes; in San Francisco. 

Mr. Thomas. You filed your application in September 1940. 
When were vou called for 3'our first examination? 

Mrs. FiORETTi. In 1941— the first time I went was on October 10, 
1941. I didn't pass my exammation that time, but I passed on 
December S. 

Mr. Thomas. I see. That is all. Thank you very much fur 
coming. 

Mr. Hallgarten? 

TESTIMONY OF WOLFGANG FELIX GEORGE HALLGARTEN, 75 
BUENA VISTA AVENUE, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF. 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Hallgarten, will you give your name and address 
to the reporter? 

Mr. Hallgarten. Wolfgang FelLx George Hallgarten, 75 Buena 
Vista Avenue, San Francisco. 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Hallgarten, you have submitted for the com- 
mittee's record a statement here? 

Mr. Hallgarten. Yes. 

(The statement referred to above is as follows:) 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11885 

STATEMENT BY WOLFGANG FELIX GEORGE HALLGARTEN, 75 
BUENA VISTA AVENUE, SAN ^FRANCISCO, CALIF. 

While my original intention to do something for the German political exiles 
around the bay as a group seem.s to have become obsolete, due to the reported 
evacuation of all enemy aliens without any distinction, I wish to discuss my per- 
sonal case, for the committee's information. As you doubtlessly remember, I 
belong to the group of people whose naturalization has been hampered by no 
other facts than by the crowded condition of the Federal agencies here in the bay 
region. Instead of investigating the reasons of this crowded condition — a prob- 
lem which I feel is uj) to the Federal authorities and not to the victims of these 
conditions — I think I might give you an objective picture of the technical prob- 
lems which, in my case, arose out of this situation. For the purpose of doing 
so I beg to compare my career under what would have been normal conditions 
with the status as it at present is. 

1. Normal conditions: I immigrated on January 28, 1938, filed first papers in 
March of the same year, and due to my marriage to an American citizen became 
eligible for citizenship on February 15, 1941. Before the performance of the 
ceremony I inquired carefully in the naturahzation office what my chances 
for becoming a citizen were. I was given the answer "in case you pa.ss your exami- 
nation you will become a citizen by July or August." Would this promise have 
been kept, I would have had a fair chance of becoming executive secretary of a 
committee on war economics which the University of California, at the suggestion 
of 10 of its leading professors, planned to erect. Even if this plan would not have 
materialized, I would have been able to accept the position of a foreign news 
analyst which the Columbia Broadcasting System in January of this j-ear wanted 
to offer to me. 

2. Actual conditions: In' September, the naturalization office informed me 
that due to the crowded condition of the court — Federal court in San Francisco — I 
would have to wait until January or February until I would be given a hearing. 
Under these circumstances, my negotiations with the University of California about 
the prolongation of my position as research associate in history broke down, as 
the authorities around that time started enforcing the ruling that people who do 
not actualh^ teach have to be citizens. Thus, I and my American-born wife 
were menaced with a'financial break-dovvn and creditors presented their claims. 

3. After December 7, immigration authorities told me that as they regarded 
me as an enemy alien I would have to wait 3 more months, for the purposes of 
investigating my case. Yet in reality, two agents added, this period would be at 
least 6 months as the Federal authorities were too overburdened with other cases 
to do the investigating in due time. This in spite of the fact that I am the 
descendant of three generations of American citizens, and that my activity against 
Hitler which .started in 1921 and which I have continued ever since, in Germany 
as well as here, is universally known (I have furnished authorities with sworn 
affidavits about this, and with a photostatic copy of the Hitler decree of March 
4, 1936, which deprived me of my German citizenship. Many thousands of San 
Franciscans have heard my speeches against Hitler before organizations like the 
Commonwealth Club, the Town Hall Forum, and other meetings and clubs, not 
to mention my activity over the radio). 

4. Army draft boards refused my offer to volunteer, as long as I am not a 
citizen. At present, papers report that all Axis aliens will be evacuated from 
here. Should this be the case, the consequences for applicants for citizenship 
would be disastrous. Not only would they be prevented from appearing before 
the courts with their witnesses in due time, the moving to other districts of this 
State would force all of them to start their citizenship cases all over again. In 
other words, unless congressional action would be taken, I would have lost 1 year 
in vain. Therefore, should the said evacuation materialize, I would respectfully 
request that applicants for naturalization and their witnesses would receive per- 
mits and free fare to appear before their home-town authorities, as far as this is 
necessary for the completion of their cases. 

Should the plan of evacuating political refugees be abandoned I would at least 
respectfully request to make adequate provisions which would guarantee that the 
period of 90 days provided bj^ the law of October 14, 1940, for the investigating 
of enemy alien citizenship cases will not be exceeded. There is a widespread fear 
that through this investigating period a bottleneck will be created which will be- 
come worse than that which at present exists in the handling of citizenship cases 
around the bay region. 

60396 — 12— pt. .31 18 



11886 LOS .\NGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

In addition I think it would be fair that all applicants who have filed their 
application 6 months before Pearl Harbor or longer would be made exempt from 
all restrictions concerning enemy aliens as it is not their fault if their cases are 
not yet handled. The same exemption should apply as to all immigrants who 
were granted visas after June 30, 1941. It is known that, at this date, new regu- 
lations concerning the issuing of visas were issued which made applicants for visas 
subject to the most rigorous investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investiga- 
tion and other Federal agencies. It is evident that none of the persons admitted 
under these regulations is likely to be a fifth columnist. 

TESTIMONY OF WOLFGANG FELIX GEORGE HALLGARTEN— 

Resumed 

Mr. Thomas. Is there anytliing you would like to add to that 
statement? 

Mr. Hallgarten. I thmk the statement covers pretty much what 
I have to say. There is no use going; into detail further at this time. 
I think, first, it will be better to hear the representatives of the 
Naturalization Service and then, if any technicalities are developed, 
it might be possible to add somethmg. 

Mr. Thomas. You today are presently classified as an enemy alien, 
is that right? 

Mr. Hallgarten. Yes; I am. But, as I said, my father, grand- 
father and great grandfather were American citizens. 

Mr. Thomas. Naturalized American citizens? 

Mr. Hallgarten. Well, my great grandfather evidently was, but 
the others are American citizens. They lived here. I think the 
family came to the United States in 1837. I was bom on the other 
side because of the extensive traveling of my family. 

Mr. Thomas. Where were you born? 

Mr. Hallgarten. In Munich, Bavaria, Germany. 

Mr. Thomas. Was your father born in the United States? 

Mr. Hallgarten. Yes; in New York. 

Mr. Thomas. Was he a citizen of the United States? 

Mr. Hallgarten. Yes; he was. 

Mr. Thomas. Could you tell us why, if your father, having been 
bom in the United States and, therefore a citizen of the United States, 
you are not? 

Mr. Hallgarten. The citizenship status of my father at the time 
of my birth isn't clear. It is possible that he was an American citizen 
by that time. But in any event, as I was born in Germany, I was 
informed by authorities that I am an enemy alien and that at least I 
have to be considered as a German. 

Mr. Thomas. Do you recall when you filed your appUcation for a 
petition for naturalization? 

Mr, Hallgarten. Yes; on March 4, 1941. 

Mr. Thomas. On March 4, 1941? 

Mr. Hallgarten. Yes. 

Mr. Thomas. Has any disposition been made of that appUcation 
up to the present moment? 

Mr. Hallgarten. No. 

Mr. Thomas. Have you heard from the NaturaUzation Office? 

Mr. Hallgarten. Yes. I have heard from Mrs. Godfrey, who I 
see is present, and Mr. Armstrong, that my case will be taken up and 
I will be called for an appointment before long. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE ^HGRATION 11887 

Mr. Thomas. You say you will be called for an appointment before 
long? 

THREE-MONTH WAITING PERIOD 

Mr. Hallgarten. Yes. But then I was told that a period of 3 
months will follow in which I will have to wait to determuie whether 
I will be accepted or not. There is an uivestigation which will be 
performed by, I think, the F. B. I. and other agencies. I was told too 
that, as the conditions are at present, it is not to be expected that 
this period will last only 3 months, but probably much longer, because 
of the crowded conditions of the respective agencies.^ That, of 
course, might lead to my evacuation from San Francisco in the event 
that German enemy aliens are evacuated. 

Mr. Thomas. If you were not naturahzed, or had not taken the 
oath of allegiance, you might have to move if the militaiy authorities 
so ordered? 

Mr. Hallgarten. Surely. I want to add to that, that my wife is 
-an American citizen, was bom here, and comes from a well-known 
American family. Her father is principal of the Mission High School 
here in San Francisco. 

Mr. Thomas. Have you any children? 

Mr. Hallgarten. No.. 

Mr. Thomas. All right, Mr. Hallgarten. We thank you very much 
for coming here before us this morning. We wiU make your statement 
a part of the record. 

If Mrs. Godfrey, Mr. Ai-mstrong, Mr. Castagnetto, Mr. Kingston, 
and Mr. Wade will group around the table, we will make this an in- 
formal chat. 

I would suggest, starting with Mrs. Godfrey, that you give your 
name and whatever official position you might hold. 

Mrs. Godfrey. Mrs. Anne M. Godfrey, prmcipal clerk. Immigra- 
tion and Naturalization Service, San Francisco. 

Mr. Armstrong. Paul Armstrong, assistant district du-ector. Im- 
migration and Naturalization Service, San Francisco. 

Mr. Castagnetto. Walter Castagnetto, deputy clerk, in charge of 
naturalization, San Francisco. 

Mr. Kingston. J. Joseph Kingston, deputy county cletk, Alameda 
County. 

Mr. Wade. G. E. Wade, county clerk of Alameda County. 

TESTIMONY OF PAUl ARMSTRONG, ASSISTANT DISTRICT DI- 
RECTOR, IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE, 
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, SAN FRANCISCO, 
CALIF. 

Mr. Thomas. Now, Mr. Aimstrong, is the Immigration and Nat- 
uralization Service under the United States Department of Justice? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. You say you are assistant district director of the 
Tm migration and Naturalization Service in San Francisco? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes, sir. 

! See Exhibit 2, p. 11921. 



11888 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Thomas. Would you explain what that position means in re- 
lation to any particular 'district office, or, if your office is a district 
office, what your district comprises, what the physical set-up of your 
naturalization machinery is in district 22? 

JURISDICTION OF NATURALIZATION OFFICES 

Mr. Armstrong. Mr. Wixon is the district director of the Immi- 
gration and Naturalization Service. 

As assistant district director I have charge of the naturalization 
phase of the immigration and naturalization work for this district. 
The district comprises all of California north of the Tehachapis, and 
the bulk of Nevada. It runs from the Tehachapis to the Oregon 
line, and takes in most of the State of Nevada. That is district 22 
of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, with headquarters 
here in San Francisco. 

Mr. Thomas. Approximately how many offices are engaged in 
naturahzation work within that district? 

Mr. Armstrong. Sixty-one, I believe. There are 49 m California 
and 12 in Nevada. 

Mr. Thomas. What do those consist of — county courts of the State? 

Mr. Armstrong. Well, so far as naturalization is concerned, there 
are two functioning Federal courts in our district in California, one 
in San Francisco and one in Sacramento. It is the same district, but 
two divisions. 

Then in each one of the counties there is a superior court which also- 
exercises naturalization jurisdiction. 

So that naturalization is held in each one of the United States. 
district courts and also in each one of the superior courts for the 
various counties in that district. In our district in Nevada there is 
one Federal court and eleven State courts. 

Mr. Thomas. Is each one of the United States district courts sepa- 
rate from the regional office? 

Mr. Armstrong. No. They are all under the jurisdiction of the 
Immigration and Naturalization Service. Ah of the naturalization 
papers filed in any office must be routed through the Immigration and 
Naturalization Service here in San Francisco for this district. 

Mr. Thomas. What is the address of that office? 

Air. Armstrong. 801 Silver Avenue, San Francisco. 

Mr. Thomas. Now, I wonder if you could give us a brief outline of 
the procedure which a person must follow from the time he makes his 
first appearance, in connection with applying for what we will call 
his second papers? 

Mr. Armstrong. You are considering he is now eligible to hie his 
petition, is that it? 

Mr. Thomas. Let us say he comes to your office and wants an 
application for second papers. 

PROCEDURE TO OBTAIN SECOND PAPERS 

Mr. Armstrong. Well, he must submit that application with 
photographs, either with his declaration of intention, if he has a 
declaration of intention, or he may file it as the spouse of a citizen. 
Then that application is received by us. It may be sent by mail, or 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11889 

it may be received at our office in the post office, or it may be received 
at Silver Avenue, and it receives a number. 

If there has been a dechiration of intention it already has a number; 
otherwise it is necessary to give it a number. 

If the entry into the United States of that individual has not already 
been verified, it is necessaiy to send that application form to the port 
of entry for verification of entry. 

In the event that the entry was before June 29, 1906, it is not 
necessary to get a certificate of arrival. But it is stiU necessary to 
verify the fact, either from official records or from some other records, 
that the person actually was living in the United States as a permanent 
resident prior to June 29, 1906. 

Now, having established the fact that there is or is not a valid entry, 
the process from there on would be different. 

If we are unable to find a record of lawful entry, or if the individual 
is unable to supply adequate proof that he was living here before 
1906, then there is considerable investigation that is necessary. We 
have to call them in sometimes for interrogation to try to get addi- 
tional facts. 

The person who arrived before 1906 need pay no fee for this 
verification. 

A person who arrived after June 29, 1906, has to pay $2.50 for the 
certificate of arrival, which fee must accompany the applicalion. 

If we cannot establish the fact that the person in question was 
living in this countiy before 1906, or from all of the infonnation we 
can get from him we cannot verify his claim that he arrived at a 
certain time, on a certain ship, and so forth, or if the facts show he 
came in illegally, then it is necessary for that individual to go through 
what is called a registry process to create a lawful entry for the entry 
that may have been unlawful, or for which no record can be found. 

Mr. Thomas. Do you have a number of those types of cases? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes, there are quite a number. 

Mrs. Godfrey mentions the fact that under the law, if the alien 
arrived in this country after July 1, 1924, the record of entry cannot 
be created. He is here unlawfully and is deportable. 

It is only those persons who arrived prior to July 1, 1924, who have 
the privilege of going through this registry process. 

Now, after the entry has been legalized by this registry process, 
then those cases are ready for filing. All that is necessary then is for us 
to function. The cases are ready, the applicant is ready, and we are 
not. That is what it amounts to. We are not able to reach them. 
I am speaking now of the condition that exists right now and has 
existed for some time. 

Mr. Thomas. Will you just explain, for the purposes of the record, 
how an applicant is called for his first interview, ancl then what various 
steps he takes in the filing of his petition, and then when he might 
eventually take the oath of allegiance? 

application for naturalization 

Mr. Armstrong. I think you have a misconception about that. 
First, he comes in with his application. There is no interview then. 
He either brings in the application and submits it, or he sends it in by 
mail, or he may send it in by a daughter, wife, or a friend. 



11890 LOS .\XGELE5 .\XD SAX FRAXCISCO HEARES"GS 

The application is accepted and then the process of verifying it 
goes on. 

Mr. Thomas. I mean, after the process has all been completed, and 
the applicant is called in to appear with his witnesses. 

Mr. Armstrong. He files his petition at that time. An appoint- 
ment is made with him to appear with his witnesses at a designated 
time. He then is interviewed by an examiner, and if everything is 
satisfactory the witnesses are interrogated: the apphcant then goes 
to the clerk's office with his paper to file his petition. It is a continu- 
ing process at the same time. 

In San Francisco, in the United States district com-t, after the 
examiner completes his examination, he turns these papers over to a 
typist, who types the petition and gives the applicant two copies of 
it, the original and the dupUcate, to take to the clerk's office with the 
necessary docmnents, which includes the photographs and the cer- 
tificate of arrival, and a declaration of intention, if that is necessary. 

The clerk then receives those papers, places his name on them, 
and swears petitioner and witnesses to the document; then they go 
right across the hall to the officer, who is called a designated examiner. 

Mr. Thomas. When does the apphcant pay his fee? 

Mr. Armstrong. When he goes to the clerk's office just before he 
goes to the designated examiner. The petition is actually filed and 
a matter of record when it is presented to the designated examiner. 

While the petition is being filed by the clerk, the typist, who has 
typed the petition, takes the triplicate petition, with whatever other 
correspondence there may be in the file, to the designated examiner 
so that he has that before him. When the people go across from the 
clerk's office, they have a white card. That is all that is left after 
the petition is filed. They have a card from the clerk gi\'ing the 
ntmiber of the petition, the person's name and other identifying data, 
and leaving a blank as to when the final hearing on that petition 
will be held. 

SETTING DATE FOR FINAL HEARING 

Then the designated examiner conducts a very ctirsory examination. 
If everything appears to be satisfactory, he puts on the date of the 
final hearing. 

The reason that is not done any more — putting on the date .of the 
final hearing, which was done by the clerk heretofore — is that it 
caused a good deal of confusion if the date was fixed at a specified 
time. The designated examiner would have to say, "Well, now, you 
will disregard that because we need depositions and we can't pass 
that until then," or, "You haven't passed your Government examina- 
tion," or, "One of your witnesses hasn't proved that he or she is a citi- 
zen of this country and proof will have to be forthcoming," or for 
one reason or another the case couldn't be marked what we call "G" — 
granted — it couldn't be marked as accepted as that time. So he 
would have to cross it out, or say, "Don't pay any attention to that; 
we wlQ notify you when to come in." 

At the present time the date of the hearing is left off, and if every- 
thing is satisfactory at the time the person appears before the desig- 
nated examiner then he writes on it the first hearing date that that 
j>erson can come in. 



NATIOXAL DEFZN.SE MIGRATIOX 11891 

We have no difficiiltr aVx»ut hearing these cases. Under the desig- 
nated examiner system we can bear in the court in San Francisco m 
a week 350 cases jijst as well as we can hear 50. There is no question 
of a bottleneck in the court. The bottleneck is before that. 

Mr. Thomas. What hapi>ens after the designated examiner has 
marked these papers "G" — does he examine the applicant's witnesses 
then? 

Mr. ARMSTRONG. No. The witnesses have been examined by the 
preliminary examiner, and again by the designated examiner, right in 
the same process. He does not mark that "G" until the witnesses are 
satisfactory and the applicant also is satisfactory. 

Mr. Thomas. These examinations before the preliminary examiner. 
and before the designated examiner, the filing of the petition, and the 
paying of the fee. all take place the same day? 

NlrrARMSTBOXG. Oh, yes; within an hour or an hour and a half. 
It is all a part of the same process. 

Mr. Thomas. What becomes of the petition after the designated 
examiner has marked it "G"? 

Mr. Aemstboxg. The petition goes to the file. The information 
from the petition is put on a separate form letter and goes to our in- 
vestigating staff, and they check with the j)olice. The form notice 
goes to the F. B. I. also, and the investigatiiig group of three or four 
definite avenues of ckecking; one of which is the police, one of which is 
the Alcohol Tax Unit, and one of which is our own accumulated index 
which has some infomaation in it that is received from time to time 
with reference to aliens who are later to file petitions. 

The petition itself is put in the file awaiting the time when it is 
ready for the next hearing. 

WJLinXG PERIOD 

Mr. Thomas. About how long a time does this investigatory 
process take? 

Mr. Aemsteoxg. We are getting through with most of them in the 
30-day period between the time of filing and the court hearing. 

Mr' Thomas. We understand that, in the case of enemy aliens, 
they have to wait a period of 90 days. Could you explain for the 
record just what that waiting period means, and how it enters into 
this picture? 

Mr. Aemsteoxg. The law itseK, section 326, requires that there be 
at least 90 days between the filing of the petition and the hearing in 
those special cases. 

Section 326 (b) of the Xationalitr Act of 1940 provides: 

An alien embraced within this section «l>an not have such alien's petition for 
naturalization called for a hearing, or heard, except after 90 day?* notice given hj 
the clerk of the court to the Commi^onQ- to be lepresented ax, the hearing, and 
the Commissioner's objection to such final hearing diall cause the petition to be 
continued from time to time for so long as the Conuni^oner inay reqriire. 

That 90-day period is statutory. 

Mr. Thomas. Well, could all this investigatory work be completed 
within that 90-day period? 

Mr. Aemstboxg. You are speakiag of today? 

Mr. Thomas. Yes. 



11892 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Armstrong. No, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. Or is the 90 days to run after all the investigatory- 
work has taken place? 

Mr. Armstrong. No, no, as far as the statute is concerned, 90 
days after the petition is filed it is entitled to a hearino;. 

Mrs. Goldfrey corrects me somewhat — 90 days after we receive 
notice. 

The mechanics of that are this: That at the end of the month in 
which the petition is filed the clerk of the court, whether it is a Federal 
court or a State court, sends a notice to our office — he sends other 
reports too, but so far as this inquiry is concerned he sends a report — 
"that the following alien enemy petitions have been filed during the 
month," showmg the petition number, the name of the mdividual, 
and the country to which they owe allegiance. 

Mrs. Godfrey has brought with her one of those forms that comes 
from the United States district court in San Francisco. The form 
number that we use is N-435. That sets forth the names of the 
individuals and the country. 

ACTUAL time REQUIRED 

Mr. Thomas. It is possible, then, that more than the actual 90 
days might elapse from the time 

Mr. Armstrong (interposuig) . If we were absolutely current and 
handling everything just as every body would desire, it would take 
perhaps 40, 45, or 50 days — I shouldn't say that; it might take 99 
or 100 days because of the fact that the petition might be filed in the 
early part of the month. Then we wouldn't get the report from the 
clerk until the 2d or 3d, perhaps, of the succeedmg month, and the 
90 days would begm to run from the date on which we accept notice 
of the fact that those petitions were filed. That is when the 90 
days begin to run. 

Mr. Thomas. What is the procedure in the event that all of the 
investigation proves to be satisfactory — what happens to the petition 
then? 

Mr. Armstrong. The petitioner would be admitted to citizenship. 

Mr. Thomas. Does the petition come back to the designated ex- 
aminer for further O. K.? 

EFFECT OF DECLARATION OF WAR 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes. I was counting back because in many of 
these enemy alien cases we have pending they have already been 
marked "G" — they have already been marked "satisfactory." But 
along came the war and it was necessary then .to throw them in the 
classification of enemy alien. There will be further investigation, if 
necessary, in those cases. 

Mr. Thomas. Have enemy aliens been admitted to citizenship since 
the declaration of war? 

Mr. Armstrong. No, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. Not as yet? 

Mr. Armstrong. We couldn't get our first notice until January 2 
or January 3, and that would be the earliest we could handle it — 
would be the early part of April. 



XATIOXAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11893 

Mr. Thomas. When the designated exammer finds, after the inves- 
tigation, that the papers are satisfactory, does he then recommend that 
that petition be acted upon by the court? 

Mr. Armstrong. You are speaking now of any case, including the 
ahen enemy? 

Mr. Thomas. Yes. 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes. 

Mr. Thomas. What happens then insofar as the court procedure is 
concerned? 

admission to citizenship 

Mr. Armstrong. The first court day after that, at which they can 
be heard, they would be notified to appear, alone without witnesses, 
and be sworn in as citizens. 

Mr. Thomas. You are speaking now of the United States District 
Court? 

Mr. Armstrong. What I have reference to now is entirely in the 
United States district court where the designated examiner system is 
followed. 

Mr. Thomas. How^ often does the United States District Court 
meet for naturalization purposes? 

Mr. Armstrong. Every Monday. 

Mr. Thomas. And all of the cases that are then presented to it are 
then disposed of at that sitting of the Court? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes. As a matter of fact, we don't interfere 
with the court calendar at all. The cases are brought to the court at 
8:45 to 9. The successful applicants are taken into the courtroom and 
the judge comes into the courtroom about 9:30. The examiner moves 
the admission of this group. 

Last Monday there were 145 and the Monday before 175. The 
court generally makes a talk of about 10 minutes to those that are to 
be admitted to citizenship and then directs the clerk to administer 
the oath of allegience. They all stand up, hold up their right hands, 
and take the oath of allegiance. They go to the clerk's office then 
and sign their certificates. They pass out of the court-room into the 
clerk's office and the judge goes off the bench for 5 minutes or 10 min- 
utes and comes back at 10 and takes up the regular business of the 
calendar. 

There is a great deal of extra work, of course, that is necessary, in 
order to have a group of 100 to 200 flow through there with some degree 
of dispatch. 

Mr. Thomas. What has been your experience insofar as these 
petitions that are being investigated; that is, as to the number that go 
through without any particular trouble? 

Mr. Armstrong. I should say the number is about 5 or 6 percent 
that have trouble; and 94 or 95 percent go through without any 
particular trouble. 

Mr. Thomas. I wonder if you could give us a few figures, as nearly 
accurate as you might be able to estimate, as to how many enemy 
aliens have filed petitions and are now awaiting this investigatory 
process. 



11894 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

ACCUMULATION OF PETITIONS 

Mr. Armstrong. I think I should preface any remarks that I 
might have on that proposition by stating this: That through the 
years there has been quite an accumulation of petitions that are 
pending and ready for hearing if the individuals can meet definite 
requirements. For instance, we have petitions running back to 1936 
that are still pending petitions, quite a few in 1937, 1938, and on up 
to date. Some of those need to furnish depositions to prove certain 
things. The bulk of them are continued because of lack of ability to 
pass the examination as to reading English, or as to satisfying the 
designated examiner that he or she understands the fundamental 
principles of our Government. 

I haven't broken down how many of these cases are enemy aliens. 

Also in this same group there are a lot of cases that still need 
investigation and are being investigated. As I say, I can't break 
that group down for you. 

Mr. Thomas. Have you any figures, for instance, as of March 1 
as to how many petitions are now pending in the United States district 
court? 

Mr. Armstrong. About 3,000. That is a fairly close estimate, I 
think. 

Mr. Thomas. About how many of those would be enemy aHens? 

Mr. Armstrong. Maybe 1,200. 

Mr. Thomas. Wlien you speak of 3,000 does that include any 
petitions from outside tlie San Francisco office? 

Mr. Armstrong. No. 

Mr. Thomas. These twelve-hundred-odd that you speak of, 
would they be waiting for these various things you have enumerated, 
for instance, the 90-day period, waiting some further investigation, 
waiting for a personal interview by the investigators, and, as I under- 
stand it, for a further neighborhood investigation, or an F. B. I. 
report? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes. 

Mr. Thomas. Would they be waiting for anything in connection 
with the alien registration? 

Mr. Armstrong. They might be. Maybe they have not registered. 
There would be a certain number, not large, that would be included 
in that group. 

Mr. Thomas. Have you any way of estimating how many petitions 
might be pendhig in these other fifty-odd offices in the district that 
you spoke about? 

Mr. Armstrong. We are fairly current hi the other offices, with the 
exception of Alameda County and Santa Clara County, where we are 
considerably behind. In Santa Clara County they have furnished a 
clerk, through the supervisors, an extra deputy, and a typist, and we 
are clearhig that situation up right now. I think by next month we 
will probably be current in Santa Clara County. Certainly by May 
we will be current there.^ 

Mr. Thomas. Wlien you say "current", what do you mean by that? 

Mr. Armstrong. I mean that all of the petitions which can be filed 
and are pending are filed and are before the court ready for hearing. 

1 See Exhibit 1, p. 11919. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11895 

REASONS FOR CONTINUANCES 

Now, in every court that we have there is a certain number that 
have been continued from time to time because of the same elements 
that caused the continuance of a large part of this 3,000 in San Fran- 
cisco; that is, they have not satisfied the court that they imderstand 
the principles of government, or they have not presented these dep- 
ositions, or a witness has not proved certain facts. There are differ- 
ent elements that cause a continuance in these other courts. How 
many there are of those cases that have been continued from time to 
time I don't know. It could be found out. They are all on file in 
their places in our district office, but I don't know just how many 
there are. I wouldn't want to make a guess because that information 
is fairly easily obtained. 

Mr. Thomas. Might I ask you how many persons who have fUed 
an application for petition are now awaiting their first interview, for 
instance, in the San Francisco office? 

APPLICANTS AWAITING FIRST INTERVIEW 

Mr. Armstrong. A pretty close estimate would be 6,000. 

Mr. Thomas. How many of those would you estimate are alien 
enemies? 

. Mr. Armstrong. They run about 1 in 3, so it would be pretty close 
to 2,000. 

Mrs. Godfrey and I do not agree on that, but I think the figures 
will bear me out. 

Mr. Thomas. Have you had a liigher percentage of applications 
filed since war was declared than previously in connection with enemy 
aliens? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes. 

Mr. Thomas. Or that are now classified as enemy aliens? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes. 

INCREASE IN APPLICATIONS FILED 

Mr. Thomas. How many applications have you had since Janaury 
1, 1942? 

Mr. Armstrong. Well, as sort of a comparison, our general aver- 
age for San Francisco last year would run about 400 to 450 a month. 
Since the first of the year it has been nearer 1,000. 

Mr. Thomas. And about how many of those would be enemy 
aliens? 

Mr. Armstrong. I don't know. I think I would agree with Mrs. 
Godrey that as to this new group during the last 3 years, my 1 in 3 
figure is out of proportion; it is too low. I would say that of the appH- 
cations that we have received in San Francisco, the number of enemy 
' aliens, German and Italian, would be nearer 60 percent than it would be 
30 percent. 

Mr. Thomas. Could you give us any estimate of approximately 
how many people in the entu'e district have filed applications for 
petitions and are now awaiting their first interview? 



11896 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Armstrong. "Well, perhaps I should indicate something of the 
practice that we follow outside of San Francisco which might answer 
that question. 

Mr. Thomas. May I interrupt a moment? If any of you gentle- 
men, or Mrs. Godfrey, want to ask a question to make this more 
explicit do not hesitate, because this is informal. 

Mr. Armstrong. With the exception of Alameda County and Santa 
Clara County, in all of the Superior Courts in California we send the 
application form itself to the clerk and the clerk files the petition 
without an examiner being present. 

REPATRIATION CASES 

Now, in Alameda County they accept what we term "R" cases. 
That is a woman who is being repatriated. We require all of the 
documents to be submitted and if we check those and find them 
satisfactory, her birth certificate, and any other documents that are 
necessary to make a valid repatriation case, we send that to the 
superior court in Alameda County and they file that without an 
examiner being present. 

But for an ordinary case, outside of the "R" cases, the repatriation 
cases, except for Alameda County and Santa Clara County, we send 
the regular case to the clerk and the clerk calls in the petitioner and 
the witnesses, interrogates them as a preliminary examiner would do, 
and files the petition. He takes the $5 filing fee, and at the end of 
the month returns to us the papers that we sent down as a basis for 
that petition, together with the duplicate and triplicate petition. 
We put that in our file, awaiting the regular rule day of that court 
when an examiner appears in court and, with this as a basis, this trip- 
licate petition and the other papers which we may have in our files, he 
conducts the examination. That is the first time we have seen that 
individual. That is, there has been no preliminary examination of 
that individual at all by our Service. 

Mr. Thomas. Approximately how many people are awaiting either 
a first interview in your office or that type of examination in the 
county clerk's office? 

Mr. Armstrong. Very few of these outside cases because we send 
them on as soon as they are ready for filing. 

DELAYS IN OFFICES OF COUNTY CLERK 

Mrs. Godfrey says the clerks don't call them. I don't want to be 
put in a position of saying that we wash our hands of it as soon as 
we send them to the clerk, because we don't. But there were some 
indications that in some of the courts, for one reason or another, the 
clerk was not calling these people soon enough and in those two cases 
that I know of — one was in Stockton and one was in Fresno — I just 
wrote down to those places and told them that we had some complaints 
about the length of time that had passed smce the case went away 
from us. 

We get the rebound this way: That an applicant out there will 
say, "Well, I sent in my application long ago and I haven't heard 
anything about it. What is the matter? What is holding it up?" 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11897 

Then we go to our file and see where, 2 or 3 months ago, we sent 
that to the clerk to file. On the basis of these complaints coming in 
from Stockton and Fresno, I just wrote down to them and told them 
of the complaints that had come in; that so many had come that it 
indicated they were being held up. I think the situation has been 
corrected. 

Maybe that has come up in other places and we haven't known 
about it until a considerable time afterwards. 

Mr. Thomas. What I am trying to get at is if you are in any position 
to estimate how may people right now have filed applications for 
second papers that are awaiting some further disposition of their case. 

Mr. Armstrong. That would be a wild guess. 

Mr. Thomas. In the whole district, including San Francisco and 
all the other cities, would it be as high as 5,000? 

Mr. Armstrong. I want to get what you have in mind, Mr. Thomas, 
as to what you want me to say, that is, what type of case have you in 
mind? 

APPLICATIONS IN PROCESS 

Mr. Thomas. You have explained, for instance, that no enemy 
aliens at the present time have been admitted to citizenship. I am 
assuming that a great many applications have been filed in San Fran- 
cisco, which includes both friendly aliens and enemy aliens. Now, I 
have had some indica^tion that there are as many as 5,000 applica- 
tions which are now in San Francisco awaiting their first interview — or 
was it 6,000? 

Mr. Armstrong. I think 6,000. It is between 5,000 and 6,000. 
I think 6,000 is a fair estimate. 

Mr. Thomas. What I want to know is whether or not you are in a 
position to estimate as to the number of cases which might be awaiting 
some action by the county clerk, for instance, throughout the rest of 
the district. 

Mr. Armstrong. We have approximately 2,000 cases for Alameda 
County that are in our office. They are not in the clerk's office. 
They are in our office awaiting appointment. 

But in most of the other clerks' offices it would be just a question of 
knowing from day to day. That changes from day to day. Today 
the clerk may have decided that next week they are going to call in 50 
cases, if there were that many cases before them. 

Mr. Thomas. You would have no great backlog in the county 
clerks' offices then? 

Mr. Armstrong. As far as our office is concerned, there is no 
backlog at all outside of Alameda County, and a little backlog in 
Santa Clara County, which we are cleaning up pretty rapidly. 

time between filing of application and first interview 

Mr. Thomas. In connection with the San Francisco office, how 
long a period of time elapses from the date of filing the application 
until the person is called for his first interview? 

Mr. Armstrong. In San Francisco it is approximately twelve 
months. Mrs. Godfrey can tell you very much closer than that, I 
suppose. Our appointments going out now are a little less than 
12 months. 



11898 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mrs. Godfrey. Just 12 months exactly. We were 14 months 
behind. 

Mr. Armstrong. In Alameda Coimty they are about 32 or 33 
months behind. 

Mr. Thomas. Can you give us anj^ estimate of the approximate 
number of persons examined monthl}^ at their first interview in the 
San Francisco office? 

Mr. Armstrong. I don't know exactly what you mean. 

Air. Thomas. How many applicants are called in for their first 
interview, that is, the bringing in of their witnesses? 

jMr. Armstrong. Between 900 and 1,200 a month. 

Mr. Thomas. How many men are engaged in the work of this 
preliminary examination? 

NUMBER OF PRELIMINARY EXAMINERS 

Air. Armstrong. If you mean how many are actually working as 
preliminary examiners from day to da}' , we have five, full time, five 
right along — Mrs. Godfrey will say that isn't accurate but I can qualify 
that — five or sLx, and I have to qualify it to agree with Mrs. Godfrey 
for this reason: Special things come up and I have to yank an examiner 
out of there on account of special work and it increases the load on 
the other examiners that ai"e there and it makes for a little less satis- 
factory piece of work and a little more congestion in the office dui'ing 
the peak times when the people are coming in. But I think it is a 
fair statement to say that generally there are five preluninary exam- 
iners working daih' in the San Francisco office. "Daily" means 
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, with a little on Satur- 
day. We are unable to file at the present time on Monday because 
of the hearing and because all of Alonday morning is gone with the 
signing of certificates and the job of getting those certificates out 
right away. We have to get it out in 1 day because it is a thing that 
can't lag over. 

Mr. Thomas. About how many men have you engaged in the inves- 
tigatory work, that is, after the petitioner has come from the desig- 
nated examiner? 

Air. Armstrong. Thi-ee. 

Air. Thomas. Those are three men of the Naturalization Service? 

Air. Armstrong. Yes, sir. 

Air. Thomas. Have you any idea ho\v many F. B. I. agents are 
engaged in examinations for you? 

F. B. I. makes separate INVESTIGATION 

Air. Armstrong. None at all. The gentleman was wrong when 
he mentioned that a moment ago. We haven't asked the F. B. I. 
for any investigating at all. They have their own. 

Mr. Thomas. I mean, are they up to date in the investigations 
that they make on their own in connection Avith what has to be 
turned over to the Naturalization Service? 

Air. Armstrong. I understand they are a couple of months behind 
in returning to us reports on the requests for the checking of their 
records that we have made. That is all we ask them to do. AYe are 
not asking them to make an}^ investigations for us. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11899 

Mr. Thomas. Do the}' duplicate any work that your investigators 
do, or is their particular field of inquiry entii'eiy separate and apart 
from that which your investigators make? 

Mr. Armstrong. It is entirely separate, unless there is something 
that we encounter that we feel that they would be interested in. 
What we ask them to do is to check the Ust we send them agamst their 
files. That is all we ask them to do. 

Mr. Thomas. It has been suggested that your office here is some- 
what bogged down a little bit by the tremendous amount of business 
that is passing thi'ough it. Have you any suggestions that you might 
make that could speed up this work in any way or not? 

ENLARGED STAFF AND ADEQUATE SPACE REQUIRED 

Mr. Armstrong. Well, more space and more personnel. That is 
all. If we had additional personnel and additional space in which 
to work, that would help. 

Mr. Thomas. In other words, if you had adequate staff and ade- 
quate space this whole process could be considerably speeded up? 

Mr, Armstrong. There is no question about it. 

Mr. Thomas. Supposing you had sufficient staff and sufficient 
space. Could you give us any estimate of how long a time it might 
take between the time a person filed his application for petition, 
assuming that everything went along in satisfactory order, before the 
applicant might be admitted to citizenship? 

TIME REQUIRED TO OBTAIN FINAL PAPERS 

Mr. Armstrong. With the exception of the enemy aliens, it would 
be a matter of 3, 4, 5, or 6 months. You have to send to the port of 
entry for a certificate of arrival. 

Mr. Thomas. In the case of an enemy ahen it might require a 
little longer on account of the 90-day waiting period? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes. You add an additional 3 months. 

Mr. RoBACK. I wonder if you would speculate on a hypothetical 
question, Mr. Armstrong. Assuming that there was an evacuation, 
or a compelled movement today, and assuming that your facilities as 
to staff, and space, had been doubled 1 year ago, would you estimate 
how many people today would not be enemy ahens who are today so 
classified and would have to move? 

Mr. Armstrong. If we had had that available a year ago? 

Mr. RoBACK. Yes. 

Mr. Armstrong. We would have just the appfications we have re- 
ceived since December that would still be pending. We would be 
current; that would be all. 

Mr. RoBACK. Will you translate that into numbers? 

Mr. Armstrong. No; because I don't know — we have approxi- 
mately 1,200 enemy alien cases. Out of that number we figure about 
95 out of 100 would be accepted and 5 out of 100 would be rejected. 
As far as I know that same figure would run for any nationality that 
you can name. So I presume it would be 60 oft" of the 1,200, and that 
would be 1,140 that probably would be citizens. 

Mr. RoBACK. Would it be fair to say that, under such an assump- 
tion as that, that it might be less expensive to provide such facilities 



11900 LOS ANGELES AND SAX FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

and equipment than to evacuate such people who presumably in many 
cases would require governmental assistance? 

Mr. Armstrong. I don't think there is any question about that. 
I wouldn't put it on that basis as much as I would on the human side 
of it. 

Mr. RoBACK. I was merely raising the question. It is true that the 
financial side of it would have its appeal in some quarters. 

EFFECT OF EVACUATION ON NATURALIZATION PROCEDURES 

Mr. Thomas. That leads to this question: What would be the effect 
on either an application or on a petition, in the event that a person 
who had not yet been sworn had to be evacuated from, for instance, 
your district — what would be the effect on those applications or those 
petitions? 

Mr. Armstrong. Well, it might be a very serious one. If they 
are evacuated, and if the particular court in which the petition has 
been filed is one where the\^ are not permitted to be, they have a peti- 
tion on file and they cannot possibly be naturalized without that 
petition being dismissed, they then file a new petition in some other 
jurisdiction, because there is no machinery in the law for the transfer 
of that petition from one court to another after the petition has actu- 
ally been filed in court. 

Mr. Thomas. Supposing it were in the United States district court, 
would there be any objection to having that transferred to another 
district court? 

no machinery for transfer of cases 

Mr. Armstrong. There is no machinery in the law for doing so. 

Mr. Thomas. Well, by speaking of machinery are we speaking now 
of administrative practice or positive restrictions in the law? 

Mr. Armstrong. I think there are no positive restrictions, but 
there is no provision in the law for doing it. I don't know whether 
that could be worked out or not. But I do know that it never has 
been done. I know that it has been very definitely frowned on. 

Mr. Thomas. The chances are it has never come up? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes; it has come up numerous times, both the 
request to do it and a good deal of agitation for doing it, and it has 
always been the same answer. I don't know of any time when a 
clerk, either of a State court or of a Federal court, has either torn 
out a page from his book, or has taken out something and sent that 
to another jurisdiction to be acted on. I don't believe it has ever 
been done. But the question has come up many, many times during 
the years from all over the country. 

Mr. Thomas. Well, I can see, in connection with the court pro- 
cedure, that an application when it is filed and put on the docket 
becomes part of the court records. But could applications, for in- 
stance, be transferred? 

Mr. Armstrong. There is no difficulty about transferring an ap- 
plication. We do it all the tune. A person files an application here 
in San Francisco, moves to Los Angeles and then wishes to file his 
petition in Los Angeles. There is no trouble about sending the 
application on down to Los Angeles. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11901 

Mrs. GoDRFEY. If large groups were transferred to the same dis- 
trict what would prevent the court going to the group? 

Mr. Armstrong. So far as naturalization is concerned the United 
States district court might go over to the San Joaquin Valley and 
hold court over there and admit a lot of people that had filed their 
petitions in San Francisco. But it is different when you come to a 
superior court. Take Martinez, for instance; if the court house in 
Martinez is within the prohibited area and aliens had already filed 
petitions there and they were pending in court there, and they are later 
listed so that they have a right to appear before the court for natu- 
ralization, but can't go there because the court is w^ithin the prohibited 
area, there is no reason why the court can't go over to Walnut Creek, 
or some place like that, and go in a barn, or any other kind of a build- 
ing, and open court and hear them and admit them to citizenship. 
It has been done in the past. There is no legal reason why it couldn't 
be done. 

PROCEDURE IN REPATRIATION CASES 

Mr. Thomas. We were speaking a moment ago of repatriation cases. 
It is my understanding that there is not much formal procedure 
required in connection with the sending of a repatriation case to 
the court. 

Mr. Armstrong. Very little. 

Mr. Thomas. Do they stand in the same line that everyone else 
does; are they just taken chronologically as they are filed, or are they 
given special treatment? 

Mr. Armstrong. They are not given special treatment except in 
Alameda County. I don't know when it was, Mr. Kingston, but some 
2 or 3 months ago you said you would accept all repatriation cases. 
W^e have been sending them over and the court has been taking them 
once a week, or once every 2 weeks on a special hearing. There is 
very little difficulty about that. But so far as the action of an exam- 
iner is concerned, there is considerable paper work about that. And as 
far as the clerk's office over there is concerned there is a good deal of 
paper work about those repatriation cases. 

persons CLASSED AS ENEMY ALIENS BECAUSE OF NATURALIZATION 

DELAYS 

Mr. Thomas. Would you say then that there are actually thousands 
of people, or hundreds, who filed applications before December 7, 
1941 ; who are today classified as enemy aliens because the Government 
just hasn't been able to get around to act on their petitions? 

Mr. Armstrong. I don't think there is any question about it. 
If you are speaking of the San Francisco district in mentioning your 
thousands, I would say it would have to be a very few thousands. 
I think it would be 2,000 perhaps. 

Mr. Thomas. Could you project that figure perhaps in terms of 
the whole west coast, or are you in a position to even estimate that? 

Mr. Armstrong. No. Our number of enemy aliens proportionally 
runs higher than Los Angeles, but how inuch higher I don't know. 
I wouldn't be able to say. They naturalize in Los Angeles, for the 
Los Angeles district about 2,000 a year more than we do. We have 
about 10,000 a year and they naturalize about 12,000 a year. Their 

60396 — 42— pt. 31 19 



11902 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

problem is a good deal less tlian ours because it is concentrated. 
They have very little naturalization outside of Los Angeles itself. 

Mr. Thomas. Are any preferences at all given in connection with 
applications or petitions? 

Mr. Armstrong. No, sir; we give absolutely none, 

Mrs. Godfrey. Alilitary preference. 

Mr. Armstrong. I presume you mean the ordinary person? 

Mr. Thomas. Anything special? 

GRANTING OF PREFERENCES 

Mr. Armstrong. We give military preference. Persons who are 
engaged in national defense are given preference over other appli- 
cations. 

Mr. RoBACK. Are such preferences exercised in relation to requests 
by employers who are engaged in wartime production for the naturali- 
zation of aliens? There are some restrictions, as I understand it, in 
the existing law regarding the emploj^ment of aliens in defense work. 

Mr. Armstrong. It would depend considerably on what that might 
be. If it appears to be a defense employee, a mechanic that is working 
in the shipyards, or something of that kind, where the employer asks 
for preference in behalf of the employee, we give a preference; yes. 

Mr. Thomas. We will take a short recess. 

(Whereupon a short recess was taken after which proceedings were 
resumed as follows:) 

PERSONS ELIGIBLE FOR REPATRIATION NOT CLASSED AS ENEMY ALIENS 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Armstrong, in these repatriation cases are the 
parties classed as enemy aliens? 

Mr. Armstrong. I think there has been some difference of opinion 
on that score, but we do not class them as enemy aliens and I thmk 
it is incorrect for any agency to class them as enemy aliens, though I 
know that some of them have told us at least that they were informed 
that they were enemy aliens and that they should so register. The 
Director of Alien Registration in Washington in 1940 sent out a letter 
and later confirmed it with a definite letter to us that any person who 
qualified under the act of 1936 as a person who was eligible for repatria- 
tion is not an alien, though that person was deprived of certain rights 
until she did go before the court and take an oath of repatriation. 

Mr. Thomas. Now, in connection with whether or not a person in 
that status would have to be evacuated, whose decision as to whether 
they would be classed as an enemy alien would prevail? 
I Mr. Armstrong. I presume the Army. 

Mr. Thomas. "What I mean is. Would the Army seek your advice 
on it or would they do that independently, or is there any other 
Government agency to which they would look for an authoritative 
classification? 

Mr. Armstrong. There was some difficulty, I believe, for a little 
while because different governmental agencies were giving out dift'er- 
ent views. I believe that now all of them are referring these ques- 
tions to us. The F. B. I. and the United States attorney and all the 
rest of them, I think, are referring those to our office. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION • 11903 

Mr. Thomas. In other words, your decision on that question is 
acceptable to the mihtary authorities and the other agencies? 

ACTION OF MILITARY AUTHORITIES 

Mr. Armstrong. I don't know. The mihtary authorities haven't 
discussed it at all so far as I know. It may have come from them 
through these other agencies, but I would say that if there were a 
question as to whether they should move or not the military au- 
thorities would rule upon it right now and then maybe seek advice 
later and correct it if they were wrong. But I think if it were a 
question that they felt should be submitted, it would be submitted 
to our office to determine whether the person should be classified as 
an enemy alien or not. 

Mr. Thomas. In connection with what we were discussing a mo- 
ment ago about the help in the office there, could any of the men who 
are now acting as preliminary examiners be used as designated 
examiners? 

Mr. Armstrong. Oh, yes. We do use them right along. 

Mr. Thomas. You do? 

Mr. Armstrong. When the examiner who sits as designated exam- 
iner most of the time and does the bulk of the work here in San Fran- 
cisco, Mr. Johnston, goes out to lunch he is relieved by one of the 
designated examiners. We have six all together in the San Francisco 
district who have been named as designated examiners. So that any 
one of those six could function in San Francisco or elsewhere. 

Mrs. Godfrey. All six of them could if you had lots of attorneys. 

Mr. Armstrong. Oh, yes. They could all act, but it would be 
terrible. 

EFFECT OF MILITARY DRAFT ON OFFICE 

Mr. Thomas. This is a rather pertinent question to some of us on 
the staff of this committee. Has the military draft affected your 
office in any way? 

Mr. Armstrong. Two of our examiners have already left. Luckily 
they were both new examiners and it was not a really serious loss to 
us to lose either one of them, though they were both good men. But 
we have two other men who are right on the waiting list in the ante- 
room, as it were, and it would be a very serious loss to us to lose 
either one of them, one of them particularly. They are both very 
good men; it is not easy to replace an examiner. Anybody who has 
had experience with them, such as Mr. Kingston, for instance, would 
be the best sort of person on the outside to indicate whether an exam- 
iner can be replaced overnight or whether it takes some time to 
educate one. 

Mr. Thomas. Are you asking for any deferments or exemptions? 

Mr. Armstrong. As I understand it, they are not. 

Mr. Thomas. They are not? 

Mr. Armstrong. No, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. About how long does it take to train these people, 
approximately? 

Mr. Armstrong. Well, some of them are never trained. I should 
say, it takes 3 or 4 months before you can safely let a man go 
out on his own. An attorney who has a pretty good outlook, has a 



11904 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

heart and an idea of trying to get our point of view on his responsi- 
bility to the alien as well as to the Government, can, in a month per- 
haps, work, with fair supervision around, as a preliminary examiner 
in the office. 

Mr. Thomas. May I ask you one more question? Then I think we 
should either give you a glass of water or a rest. What is the status 
of those people who are now classed as enemy aliens in connection 
with their applications, whose citizenship has been canceled, for in- 
stance, by an Axis country? Does that make any difference in their 
status or not? 

STATUS NOT AFFECTED BY EXPATRIATION 

Mr, Armstrong. May I ask, just to know what you mean. Do 
you mean a German Jew, for instance, who has been expatriated by 
Germany? Is that what you mean? 

Mr. Thomas. That's right. 

Mr. Armstrong. No, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. "V'\Tiat is his classification so far as your office is 
concerned? 

Mr. Armstrong. He is an enemy alien. We have no discretion at 
all. It is the place of birth or his nationahty. Under section 326 (a), 
the Nationality Act of 1940 reads as follows: 

"An alien who is a native, citizen, subject, or denizen"; so it leaves 
no opening at all. 

Mr. Thomas. I see. 

Mr. RoBACK. Mr. Armstrong, has the Attorney General or any- 
one else in the Department of Justice made any communication to 
you regarding the status of such persons with respect to any type of 
consideration or special problem? 

Mr. Armstrong. No, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. Now, Mr. Armstrong, we will turn to these other 
gentlemen. 

Mr. Castagnetto, please. 

TESTIMONY OF WALTER CASTAGNETTO, DEPUTY CLERK IN 
CHARGE OF NATURALIZATION, CITY AND COUNTY OF SAN 
FRANCISCO, CALIF. 

Mr. Thomas. I wonder if you would be so kind as to describe for 
us how the superior court of the city and county of San Francisco 
fits into this naturalization picture. You have submitted a short 
statement here which will be put into the record, but I would like to 
ask you if you could enlarge a little bit on the statements that are here. 

(The statement referred to above is as follows:) 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 



11905 



STATEMENT BY WALTER CASTAGNETTO, DEPUTY CLERK IN 
CHARGE OF NATURALIZATION, CITY AND COUNTY OF SAN 
FRANCISCO, CALIF. 

IN EE NATUEALIZATION, SrPERIOR COURT, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF. 

Petitions filed from May 1, 1940 to Mar. 5, 1942 881 

Declaration of intention filed from May 1, 1940, to Mar. 5, 1942 402 

Repatriation applications filed May 1, 1940, to Mar. 5, 1942 U2 

Alien enemy petitions, sec. 326-A, Nationality Act, 1940, pending prior to 
Dec. 11, 1941, and set for hearing Apr. 13, 1942 32 

Alien enemy petitions, sec. 326-A, Nationality Act, 1940, pending prior to 
Dec. 11, 1941, and set for hearing Apr. 20, 1942 21 

Total 53 

Alien enemy petitions, sec. 326-A, Nationality Act, 1940, filed since December 
11, 1941: 



Date filed 



Dee. 11, 1941_ 
Dec. 18, 1941_ 
Jan. 8, 1942.. 
Jan. 15, 1942, 
Jan. 22, 1942. 



Date set for hearing 



Apr. 20, 1942. 

do 

May 11, 1942. 

do_. 

do. 



Num- 
ber 



Date filed 



Jan. 29, 1942. . 
Feb. 5, 1942.., 
Feb. 19, 1942. 
Feb. 26, 1942. 
Mar. 5, 1942.. 



Date set for hearing 



May 11, 1942. 
June 8, 1942. . 

do 

do 

June 22, 1942." 



Num- 
ber 



50 



Total nmber of petitions, sec. 326-A, Nationality Act, pending 103 

Number of petitions (nonalien enemies filed from Dec. 11, 1941, to Mar. 

5, 1942 47 

Total number of petitions pending (nonalien enemies) Mar. 5, 1942 54 

DIFFERENCE IN PROCEDURE, UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT, AND SUPERIOR 
COURT, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF. 

In the United States district court, the procedure followed in fiUng and hearing 
petitions for naturalization is identical with that of the superior court, with the 
following exceptions: 

If the witnesses are satisfactory upon preHminary examination they are excused 
from further appearance. The applicants, after being examined by a designated 
examiner, and upon his recommendation that the petitioners are quahfied and 
have passed a proper examination, are notified to appear before the court at a 
designated time for admission to citizenship. The oath of allegiance is admin- 
istered to petitioners in open court, in a group or class. 

The procedure in the superior court differentiates in this respect: The petitioners 
appear before a United States examiner, with both witnesses, in the office of the 
county clerk. Petitioners and both witnesses are given a preliminary examina- 
tion and, upon qualifying, the petition is filed by the clerk of the court and set 
for hearing within the time prescribed by law. 

Petitioner is given a card with the date and place of hearing and notification 
that he appear before the court with his witnesses. 

Witnesses and petitioners are then examined by the court and United States 
examiner and petition disposed of by the court. 

Petitioners who have passed are given identification notices by the clerk and 
told to call for their certificates of naturahzation at the office of the county clerk. 

The judges of the superior court, State of California, San Francisco, Cahf., 
have followed the practice of examininsr the petitioners and witnesses in open 
court, as provided for in section 334 (a) of the Nationality Act of 1940. 



11906 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

TESTIMONY OF WALTER CASTAGNETTO— Resumed 

Mr. Castagnetto. Well, we just follow the practice as prescribed. 
A designated examiner comes up and examines the petitioners and 
the witnesses, and then the petition is turned over to us and we type 
in triplicate and file it, and collect the fee. Then we set the case for 
hearing before the superior court. In all cases we set the case as 
soon as we possibly can. Up to this time, with the exception of the 
enemy alien cases, we have only seven cases that are pending and those 
cases are pending on account of either lack of knowledge or some 
needed documents to be prepared before they could be admitted. 

If you will note at the bottom of the statement, the number of 
petitions nonenemy aliens filed from December 11 is 47 and the total 
number of nonenemy alien petitions pending on March 5 was 54, 
leaving a difference of 7 cases that are pending before our court of 
the nonenemy alien cases. 

There were 53 enemy aUen cases that we had left over that were 
ready for hearing before war was declared. We had to group those 
back and we divided them into two groups: One for April 13 and one 
for April 20, after we notified Mr. Armstrong. 

Mr. Thomas. I wonder if you can cite for me that provision of the 
law. Is 'that section 326 (a) which provides for the 90-day period? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes. 

Mr. Thomas. So that so far as your office is concerned, Mr. Castag- 
netto, you are practically up to date. 

Mr. Castagnetto. We are right up to date. We haven't anything 
on the calendar except the enemy alien cases. 

Mr. Thomas. Which are now awaiting the expiration of the 90-day 
period? 

Mr. Castagnetto. Yes. And we have set the cases that were 
pending. As I say, we grouped them into two groups, one 32 and 
one 21 ; there are 53 cases. Since December 11 we have 50 cases that 
have been filed, making a total of 103 enemy alien cases to be heard. 

Opposite the date that they were filed we set out the date of hearing. 
That is the date we set, the approximate date of hearing. 

Mr. Armstrong. I think that is hopeful. 

Mr. Thomas. And that is assiuning, too, that the investigation goes 
through in a satisfactory manner? 

Mr^ Castagnetto. That assumes that the investigation goes 
through in a satisfactory manner and that Mr. Armstrong's office has 
no objection at the time they are presented for hearing. W^e place 
them on the calendar for those specified dates. But, of course, under 
that section 326 the Commissioner or Mr. Armstrong has the authority 
to come in and object from time to time until their investigations are 
completed. 

Mr. Thomas. Oh, yes. Do you anticipate that your filing of 
petitions might be increased now? 

Mr. Castagnetto. Definitely. A lot of these old-age pensioners 
come in. 

Mr. Thomas. I mean because of the war situation. 

Mr. Castagnetto. Oh, the war situation no doubt has increased tlio 
filing of petitions. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11907 

Mr. RoBACK. May I ask a question here? Has a large part of the 
increase in recent apphcations at any stage of the procedure been 
induced by the Ahen Registration Act? 

Mr. Castagnetto. Most definitely. 

TESTIMONY OF G. E. WADE, CLERK OF ALAMEDA COUNTY 

Mr. Thomas. Now, Mr. Wade, I wonder if you can explain some 
of these suggestions that have been made here as to Alameda County 
being behind in the filing of petitions over there. I wonder if you 
could just for the record give us a little picture of what that situation 
is. 

DIVISION OF EXPENSES OF PROCEEDINGS 

Mr. Wade. As I see it, naturalization is a function of the Federal 
Government. The Federal Government ought to stand the expense 
of the naturalization proceeding where it is possible. I recognize that 
you can't measure this thing definitely and so I presume that as fair 
an arrangement as you can 'make or that you can suggest is the one 
that is in the law to^lie effect that you split the fees. If your Federal 
act stopped there that would.be well and good, but it doesn't stop 
there. It says you can spht the fees up to the time you get $3,000 
in any one year. 

Mr. Thomas. Is that the 1906 act? 

Mr. Wade. It is the 1906 act; yes. It has been the same from year 
to year. They just pick it up from year to year. We have objected 
to that upon the ground that it is not fair to the taxpayers of Alameda 
County. They should not be expected, as we see it, to pay for the 
functions of the Federal Government. 

We have been objecting to the thing for 4 or 5 years; isn't that right, 
Mr. Armstrong? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes. T,r r^ 

Mr. Wade. We called it to the attention of Commissioner McGrath 
4 or 5 years ago. 

He was commissioner at that time, wasn't he? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes. 

EFFECT OF $3,000 RESTRICTION 

Mr. Wade. And he was very much impressed with the conversation 
that we had with hun and he asked me to write a letter to him. I 
wrote the letter and I didn't even have an answer to it. We fiddled 
along with the thing and finally we came to the conclusion that the 
only way to get any action was to quit. So we stopped. Not only is 
there a $3,000 restriction by the year but it is allocated into quarters, 
$750 per quarter. So we asked Mr. Armstrong, so far as he could, to 
control those things and not to ask for filing in Alameda County of 
petitions or naturahzation matters of any kind. This would mean 
that the Government was receiving more out of the fees collected than 
the county, and Mr. Armstrong's office has gone along with us very 
well on that. 

Mr. Thomas. And any work in addition to those that you now hie 
would be a direct expense to the taxpayers of Alameda County? 



11908 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Wade. That is correct. There is no question about it. Even 
if there were no more than $3,000 in petitions filed, $3,000 wouldn't 
compensate Alameda County for the work they put in in the naturali- 
zation office. 

Mr. Thomas. Is that true, Mr. Castagnetto, of your county? 

Mr. Castagnetto. No doubt about it. 

Mr. Wade. Mr. Tolan has had a bill ^ in the last two sessions of 
Congress asking for a correction of this section but he doesn't seem 
to get anywhere. As near as I can learn it is simply because the 
Federal Naturalization Bureau doesn't want to change it. If a man 
comes in tomorrow and he is the first man who came in in the quarter 
and he pays $5 for filing a petition for naturalization, the Federal 
Government gets $2.50 and the county of Alameda gets $2.50. Then 
as the quarter wears along and if another gentleman comes in and if 
the county of Alameda has impounded $750, then the next man that 
comes in and files a petition, the Government gets $5. That seems 
ridiculous to me. 

I had a set of figures, but unfortunately my file is out of the office 
and I don't have the figures. However, I just made a rough draft 
here last night, and while these figures aren't definite they are pretty 
close approximations. I used the calendar-year basis on these to 
show where the money went. 

In 1936 Alameda County received approximately $3,076, the Fed- 
eral Government $4,652. In 1937 the County received $2,996 and 
the Federal Government $5,648. In 1938 the county of Alameda 
received $2,952, and Federal Government $4,075. In 1939 the county 
of Alameda received $2,996, the Federal Government $5,361. In 1940 
the county of Alameda received $2,936 and the Federal Government 
$3,333. And, of course, for 1941 and some part of 1940 we adopted 
this other method and it was about equalized. The county got 
$2,792 approximately and the Government $2,754. 

Alameda County stands ready, if this thing is corrected, to clean 
up the backlog. It is purely a question of dollars and cents. 

TESTIMONY OF J. JOSEPH KINGSTON, DEPUTY COUNTY CLERK 
0;F ALAMEDA COUNTY 

Mr. Thomas. Have you an5^tliing to add to that? 

Mr. Kingston. Well, I concur with what my superior officer has 
said. In the matter of procedure in handling naturalization, Mr. 
Armstrong covered it very well. I consider him an expert in this 
naturalization work. 

In our system in Alameda County, a Federal examiner is present at 
the time of the filing of the petitions and we try to serve the public 
over there by explaining to them at the counter the various methods 
that they may use in applying for citizenship. There are quite a 
number of methods by which an alien may apply for citizenship 
under the present Naturalization Code. Some of them have to prove 
1 year, 2 years, 3 years, if they are married or single, have been 
divorced or widowed, and so forth. Our naturalization is restricted 
on account of the controversy between the Department and my super- 
ior officer, Mr. Wade. 

> H. R. 2101. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11909 

Mr. Thomas. Has the Department ever tried to enter into any kind 
of an agreement with you or give you any kind of clerical assistance 
or anything like that? 

Mr. Wade. Yes; they tried to give us clerical assistance. They 
proposed that and I told them we wouldn't stand for it. We will 
appomt our own deputies in Alameda County. Furthermore, I 
don't know that they could do it under the civil-service regulations 
of the county. But whether they could or couldn't, I wouldn't 
permit it. 

Mr. RoBACK. Mr. Wade, you said that you thought that the 
proposition of becoming a citizen was a Federal one. Thinking a 
little bit along those terms, do you think that all the machinery and 
procedure for becoming a citizen ought to be purely a Federal function 
handled by Federal machinery? 

Mr. Wade. Surely I do. It is almost fundamental in this country, 
isn't it? 

Mr. RoBACK. Well, I should thinlv so. 

Mr. Wade. That is the way I feel about it. 

TESTIMONY OF ANNE MABEL GODFREY, PRINCIPAL CLERK, 
IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE, SAN FRAN- 
CISCO, CALIF. 

Mr. Thomas. Mrs. Godfrey? 

Mrs. Godfrey. There were some things I did want to clarify 
because the investigation with regard to enemy aliens was not 
thoroughly gone into. The investigation covered was the general 
investigation; I want to bring out what has to be done in the investi- 
gation of an enemy alien. 

investigation of ALIENS 

First of all, we have to have a clearance from the F. B. I. We have 
to have a photostatic copy of their alien registration record under the 
act of 1940. We WTite to the enemy alien for a list of his employers 
for the last several years, and if he has had employers then a letter goes 
to each one of those employers as to what they can testify with respect 
to his character and loyalty. 

Incidentally, in a few cases we have dug up some interesting facts 
under that. 

Mr. Armstrong. Showing that we weren't doing a very good job of 
investigating the same cases before the emergency arose. 

Mrs. Godfrey. Then after that investigation the paper work, we 
might say, is completed; then the case goes to the investigators. 

So far, with the clerical help that we have at present, out of approxi- 
mately 1,200 cases there have just been 31 cases that have gone to the 
investigators. This is a tremendous piece of work, getting out all these 
letters, and yet it proves from the replies that we receive that it is in- 
valuable. 

Then I wanted to add one other thing. I made a survey of the 
various attorneys in the office as to their reaction of how long it would 
take to train a new examiner, and it was quite interestmg. I agree 
with Mr. Armstrong. I think it takes at least 2 years to make a really 



11910 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

good examiner, but it varied from 2 days to 2 months to train an 
examiner so that he can handle the general run of cases. I think that 
that could be done provided we had these good designated examiners 
to review the cases. That is the main thing. 

Mr. Thomas. In connection with the investigation, you have your 
own investigators and then the F. B. I. makes an investigation. I 
can see that the problems confronting both of you are a little different, 
but is there any way that some cooperation could be worked out so that 
one investigation would cover the subject matter instead of two 
different people working on the same man? 

Mr. Armstrong. As far as the investigation field is concerned, any 
investigator can handle one of our investigations. It doesn't make any 
difference whether it is the F. B. I. or some other agency, any trained 
investigator can handle one of our investigations. 

Mr. Thomas. Has the attempt ever been made to get the two of 
them together, the Naturalization Service and the F. B. I.? 

Mr. Armstrong. Oh, no. I just felt that they have their hands 
more than full. When we talk to them about various cases, we get 
the impression that they are working way beyond what they should be 
asked to work. If that is true in handling their own work, if we dump 
our load onto them I don't know what would happen. No; there has 
never been any attempt to try to have them handle our work in addi- 
tion, though there is no reason in the world why they couldn't do a 
good job of it. There is a slightly different angle, of course, but it 
wouldn't take any time at all to give them our point of view. It 
would take a very short time; that is aU. 

Mr. RoBACK. Mrs. Godfrey, in the mechanical difficulties in your 
work, do you comit such things as insufficient supply of the necessary 
types of forms and such things that are sent out to people? 

SHORTAGE OF N-400 FORMS 

Mrs. Godfrey. No. That part is all right with the exception, 
which has not been brought out at this particular hearing, that we 
have no N-400's, which is the apphcation for second papers. 

Mr. Armstrong. We haven't a one. 

Mr. Thomas. How long have you been out of those? 

Mrs. Godfrey. Mr. Armstrong telephoned on February 16. I 
suggested this morning that one way of speeding it up would be to 
take the applications that we have on hand and have somebody retype 
or type the ones that were written. You see, a typewritten applica- 
tion saves at least 5 minutes' time on the part of the examiner and 5 
minutes' time on the part of the typist. 

Mr. Thomas. Could you use volunteer help as, for mstance, 
stenographers or something like that? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes; sure. 

Mr. Thomas. I mean it would not interfere with your civil service? 

Mr. Armstrong. We couldn't have them fussing around there 
now because we have no room for them, but if the space matter were 
adjusted we could use them just as Mrs. Godfrey says. I have felt 
that I don't have the authority to say "This must be submitted in 
typewriting." I don't feel that I have the authority to do that. 
With the result that they come in and Mrs. Godfrey and the rest of 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11911 

them at the post office have instructions that where a form is so poorly- 
written that it is difficult to read, to just turn it back and tell them that 
they will have to have somebody else write that for them or it will 
have to be typewritten. But even where the form is handwritten 
and it is done pretty well, she is still right in saying that typewriting 
would save a great deal of time on the part of the preliminary examiner 
and the typist. 

Mr. Thomas. We have been advised since we have been out here 
on the coast that many people have been waiting a long time to get 
their naturalization papers through. I am asking these questions of 
any of us here for the purpose of hearing any suggestions that might 
be made. Some very sound ones have been made already, that 
might be put into effect to bring you down to a current status, so that 
some of these backlog cases could be cleaned up. Some people who 
are now technically classed as enemy aliens could be naturalized. 
Certauily the investigatory processes are such that there is no danger 
in hurrying it along; the same thorough examination could be given 
if there were more people doing the examining and investigatory work. 
We are trying to get as close an estimate here as we can, but it looks 
like there might be as many as 10,000 or more who perhaps might 
not have to be evacuated on the west coast areas. 

SPEEDING UP PROCEEDINGS 

Mrs. Godfrey. May I call your attention to one more point? 
The cases that are being filed now, during the month of March, 
cannot possibly be heard by the court until June, even if we had all 
the investigators we needed. So you see how important it is to clear 
up the backlog to get to the recent applications in time to help them 
or to help eliminate the possibility of evacuation. 

Mr. RoBACK. Is it feasible to clear up some of the backlog of 
accumulated cases by legislation which would perhaps blanket in or 
eliminate certain of the requirements of literacy, for example, where 
other qualifications had been met? 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes; it would. It would increase it, certainly. 
It would increase the speed with which you could handle those cases. 

Mrs. Godfrey. But would legislation like that be retroactive? 
If it were not retroactive you would have to go ahead and complete 
what we have on hand. 

Mr. RoBACK. I was thinking in terms of legislation which would 
stipulate with respect to certain people who had come into the picture 
as of a certahi date and who were delayed in the process because of a 
handicap which has made these cases accumulate. I was thinking 
particularly of the question of literacy. 

Mr. Wade. That doesn't seem to apply very well, does it? Mr. 
Armstrong testified that only about 5 percent were held up for reasons 
of that kind. That wouldn't cut the mountain down very rapidly. 

Mr. RoHACK. My impression was that some of the accumulation 
dating about 1936 or 1937 arose from that. 

Mrs. Godfrey. It is only a small proportion. 



11912 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

CLOSING DATE FOR ACTION ON CASES 

Mr. Armstrong. It is only a small proportion, but this perhaps 
should be stated, I think: that under the Nationality Act every peti- 
tion for naturalization which was filed before the effective date of that 
act, which was January 13, 1941, must be acted on vvithin 2 years. 
So that the dead line is January 13, 1943. 

If you ask me a year from now, if there has been any change in the 
picture concerning this 5 out of a hundred cases, I will say it is going 
to be very greatly increased, if by January 13, 1943, there is nothing 
to save this group of four or five hundred that have been pending for 
this length of time because of inability to pass the examination, in- 
abihty to get depositions, inabiUty to prove citizenship of a wife or 
husband, every one of those must be denied or admitted — admitted 
in spite of the law or denied because of the law. That is, there they 
are and they have got to be acted on one way or the other. They 
cannot be carried on beyond January 13, 1943. Some of those cases 
have been pending now since 1936. 

Mr. Thomas. I might ask you this question in connection with that. 
Are you falling behind as you are going along or are you keeping abreast 
of current applications? In other words, are you disposing of ahnost 
as many as you are now receiving or are you gradually faUing behind? 

Mr. Armstrong. We are getting a little ahead. 

Mrs. Godfrey. Mr. Roback, may I go back to your question? 
If a law of that kind were to be put mto effect now every person 
involved would have to be interviewed; every person would have to 
have at least a simphfied form because you could not take them mto 
court and swear them to citizenship without giving them a certificate, 
and in order to secure a certificate of naturalization you must have a 
certain amount of information. Whether the Service would be willing 
to do that without an investigation as to the legahty of their entrance 
under the present conditions is also another tiling. 

Mr. RoBACK. Tliis may be a Httle apart from that question. I 
understand that in the Enghsh practice, people to be evacuated from 
protective areas, in certaui cases where the naturahzation procedure 
was well advanced, were given a grace period; a period which would 
enable them to complete their naturalization to become citizens and 
then not have to be evacuated. I wonder if anyone here has any 
opinion on that point. 

waiting period before general elections 

Mr. Castagnetto. Sometimes they are precluded. For mstance, 
within a 60-day period before a general election you can't have a hearing. 
There are a lot of provisions there stating that you can't go ahead with 
a naturalization even though you would lilvc to. 

Mr. Thomas. You are going to have a couple of elections this year, 
aren't you? 

Mr. Castagnetto. There is one on August 25 and one on JNovem- 
ber 3. It is ridiculous when you come right down to it, but it is still 
in the statute. , r i u 

Mr. Thomas. I assume the idea was to prevent a rush ot those who 
applied for the sole purpose of having the right to vote. 

Mr. Castagnetto. There is a waiting period anyway. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11913 

Mr. Thomas. So actually it has no force or effect. 

Mr. Kingston. If you want to hear some ridicule on the way we 
handle our naturalization in the United States, I can give it to you, 
but I would like to give it to the Members of Congress. I would like 
to have the Members present so we could get their opinions and ask 
some questions on it. I think the way they handle naturalization 
in the United States is a big joke anyway. 

Mr. Thomas. Everything j^ou say here will go into the record. 

Mr. Kingston. Will it go into a file to be buried? 

Mr. Thomas. Not a bit of it. 

THINKS PROCEEDINGS SHOULD BE HANDLED BY BUREAU OF NATURALI- 
ZATION 

Mr. Kingston. These members of the naturalization department 
couldn't say what I have in mind. I think we should take the 
naturalization out of our courts and it should be an administrative 
function handled by the Bureau of Naturalization. That is the first 
thing they ought to do. 

Then they ought to take that new Nationality Act and thi'ow it in 
the wastebasket, because you have one group doing one thing and 
another group doing another thing, and then another group doing 
something else, and then another group doing something else again. 
And if the Dickstein bill goes into effect you will have another group 
doing something else. 

Mr. Thomas. I was going to ask if anybody had any comments to 
make on the Dickstein bill. 

EFFECT OF DICKSTEIN BILL 

Mr. Kingston. I can give you an idea of what will happen under 
it. You will have Tony Figoni, who is probably 51 years old, can't 
read or write, come in to the Superior Court of Alameda County and 
go before the judge and the judge will ask him when he came to the 
United States. 

Well, I come here in 1908. 

Did you ever go to school? t 

No; never had a chance to go to school. Been working all my life. 

Are you married? 

Yes. I got a family. 

You can't read or write? 

No. 

Then the examiner will probably state to the court that under the 
present Dickstein bill he is eligible to be admitted as a citizen, and 
the judge will tiuTi to him and say: "Well, I will have to admit you 
as a citizen. You can go out and get a hunting and a fishing license, 
but you can't serve on a jury, you can't hold public office, and you 
can't vote in California." 

Now, that's what is going to happen in our courts. 

Mr. Thomas. Those would be State law restrictions? 

Mr. Kingston. That is true, yes. 

Mr. Thomas. On the question of whether or not you are illiterate? 

Mr. Kingston. Yes. All the privileges he would have would be 
to go out and get a hunting or a fishing license. That is all he can 
get in this State so far. That is all I can see now. 



11914 LOS .\XGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Then his brother, who is probably 48 years old and who can read 
and write, xnll come up the same day following Tony and maybe 
Angelo is probably a graduate of some university and he gets before 
the examiner. The examiner might say to him "What branch of 
the Government does Congress belong to"? And he can't tell him. 
The judge would have to send him back for 6 months. Both brothers 
walk out of the court room. The feUow who is illiterate has got his 
citizenship papers and the fellow who can read and write hasn't got 
his. That is what is going to happen when it goes into effect. I think 
it is a big joke. 

APPLICANTS THEMSELVES^ CAUSE DELAYS 

Mr. Castagxetto. Another question about all this delay. It is 
not always up to the department either. A good deal of it is occasioned 
by the apj>licants themselves. For instance, they are given dates 
of appointments and times to appear, and they straggle in an hour 
after. There is a delay there. They are told to bring certain docu- 
ments. They will appear ^"ithout any of the documents. They are 
told to bring those documents in at another time. They won't show 
up for three or four periods, and by their delay they are just stopping 
somebody else by taking up all of that time. 

Mrs. GoDrRET. You don't find enemy ahens not appearing, though 

Mr. Castagnetto. We have quite a few of those who don't come 
in in time. 

Mr. Kingston. I would like to caU attention to the declaration 
of intention papers. They are old fasliioned in their methods in 
having a declaration of intention now. In the early days, prior to 
1920, some of these States would permit these aliens in their various 
States to vote on what they call first papers or declarations of inten- 
tion, but now the States are uniform in their quahfications as to 
voting. You must be a full-fledged citizen. But, still, the Depart- 
ment goes along with the old declaration of intention. And it doesn't 
mean anythiug. It is only a formality. He takes that declaration 
of intention and he throws it in a bureau drawer, and if he keeps it 
for 2 years and wakes up he can come in and file his application. If 
he leaves it there for ? years, of course it is outlawed and then he will 
have to renew. But he has no rights or privileges under it. 

FAULTS IN PICTURE SYSTEM 

Then they have this so-called picture system. You should be in 
my place in the county clerk's office and see the disgraceful certificates 
of^ naturalization thai are presented at the counter by individuals 
who have been waited on by clerks who were careless in handling 
the paste and the mucilage. It is over the certificate; they have tried 
to blot it, and the blotter sticks at the certificate and the picture 
probably is all blurred up. You can't teU who the individual is. 

Another thing about their picture: If you were naturalized, when 
you were 22 years old. when you attain the age of 60, if you are fortu- 
nate enough to hve that long, and have that certificate and you go 
across the Mexican or Canadian border, the inspector would look at 
you and he would look at the picture on the certificate and he would 
have something to say to you. It embarrasses you. He would say: 
"You don't look like that picture on the certificate." 



NATIONAL DEFENSE ^nCRATION 11915 

So their picture system is all ^^Tong. I don't believe in the picture 
system tit all. The^- have all these aliens fingerprinted. That is aU 
right. But having the pictures and the way they are put on some of 
these certificates — it is just slopped on all over the place. 

OPIXIOXS ox DECLAKATIOX OF IXTEXTIOX 

Mr. Thomas. It is your feehng then, Mr. Kingston, that reaUy the 
procedure of going through a declaration of intention, or what is com- 
monly called taking out first papers, is sort of a useless procedm-e? 

Mr. KiXGSTOx. Absolutely, because you let the man come here into 
this country and he is here for probably thi'ee or four years and he 
marries an American woman. He doen's have to take out a fu^t 
paper. 

^Ir. Armstrong. That amounts to pretty nearly 50 percent of the 
cases now anyhow. 

Mr. Thomas. Is that so? 

Mr. Armstrong. Petition cases are just about 50-50 on spouses; 
those who are married to American citizens and those who are not. 

Mr. KiNGSTOx. I can see the department's policy. They don't 
want to let go of that first paper because it brings in revenue. 

Mr. Thomas. Of course, on the other hand a good deal of expense is 
put out in clerical help and what not. 

Mrs. Godfrey. On the other hand, I am going to say something 
there, though. If they have to wait until they are here 3 or 5 years, 
an alien feels very much better in taking out a fii-st paper. Even 
spouse cases that will be eligible in 3 years' time come in and want a 
first paper. They feel so much better to have something that shows 
that they are legally here, because a first paper now does show that 
they are legally here. 

Mr. KixGSTOX. Have you ever tried to collect a fee for it, Mrs. 
Godfrey? 

Mrs. Godfrey. I collect the $2.50 post oSice money order. 

Mr. KixGSTOx. You ought to be at the comiter trying to get that 
$2.50 out of them. Then you find out if they are in sympathy with 
their first-paper system or not. 

Mr. Armstroxg. I think Mr. Kingston is a little bit wrong in 
saying that it has no value at all. It does have a very definite 
monetary value, if you want to put it on that basis, aside from the 
other values that Mrs. Godfrey indicated. There are many places 
that wiU employ a person with a first paper that will not employ him 
if he doesn't have it. If he has not been here long enough to get 
citizenship, if he has a first paper which he can get in a hmTy they 
will give him a job, whereas they ^^'ill not give him a job if he doesn't 
have that document. 

Mr. KiXGSTOx. If we diihi't have the first paper sytem would he 
still be refused a job? 

Mr. Armstroxg. I don't know. 

employmext of aliexs 

Mrs. GoDFRE r There are three types of contracts as far as the Navy 
is concerned with the shipbuilders, and there is one contract where no 
alien can be employed in the defense work. 



11916 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

Mr. Thomas. No alien or no enemy alien? 

Mrs. Godfrey. No alien. There is one ship plant around the bay, 
the Todd shipbuilding plant, that will employ an ahen who has a 
declaration of intention. It depends upon the type of contract that 
the plant has with the Navy. 

Mr. Kingston. If we never had a declaration of intention in the 
system? 

Mrs. Godfrey. All right, but talk about now. Try and get the 
Navy to change it, too. 

Mr. Kingston. Suppose we abolish it, they will still get the job. 
It doesn't mean that they are hired because they have a declaration of 
intention. 

Mr. Armstrong. I don't know. Some places do make that a 
definite requirement. 

Mr. Kingston. Because they know that it is in the law. 

Mr. Armstrong. No, no. There are a lot of places that ask, 
''Have you a first paper?" "Yes. Here is a first paper." 

"All right, you get a job." 

"If you haven't got a first paper; no." 

"Well, sorry. Can't give you a job unless you have a first paper." 

Now, if we didn't have that I don't Imow how soon that kind of a 
condition might be forgotten. I have no particular brief for a declara- 
tion of intention. 

Mr. Kingston. They would come into the Naturalization Service 
and the system of the first papers having been abolished, the naturali- 
zation examiner would call up that firm and say "I am sorry, we 
don't have any first papers any more." There is no harm done. 

Mr. Armstrong. Well, I don't have any particular brief for the 
first paper or declaration of intention. 

Mr. Wade. It seems to me that there is something worth while, 
about the declaration of intention. But as to that shipyard situation, 
Mrs. Godfrey, just how far do you think they go in checking citizen- 
ship? 

Mrs. Godfrey. You would think they went pretty far by the 
letters and telephone calls we get. 

Mr. Wade. Well, I don't know. We have been led to believe in 
some places that they take the transcript from a person's registration. 
And that isn't any more than the individual's own statement. In 
fact, I know two or thi'ee cases. I couldn't give names, but I know 
them. I do Imow that over there we have had two or three cases 
where people were in shipyards who weren't citizens. 

Mrs. Godfrey. That is what we are digging up from these letters 
of investigations from employers. 

Mr. RoBACK. Of course, it is a fact, is it not, that citizenship is 
not required for all occupations within the shipbuilding industry? 

Mr. Wade. I don't know about that. I don't know what is 
required. 

Mrs. Godfrey. It goes back to the law that was passed, that no 
Federal money can be paid to an alien. I'm not conversant with that 
particular law, but it started then, you see. Then there were some 
interpretations as to what an alien was. For a while the W. P. A. 
interpreted that a person who had a first paper was not an alien. 
Then you remember the time that it was interpreted differently. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11917 

Mr. Thomas. Before we adjourn I want to make this suggestion: 
If any of you gentlemen or Mrs. Godfrey would like to add anything 
to what you have given this morning in the form of a written state- 
ment, the record will be held open for another 10 days or 2 weeks. 
Anything that you want to submit in the way of facts or figures we 
will be very glad to have, and we will make them a part of the record. 

Mr. Wade. It seems to me that would cover the record, Mr. 
Thomas. Mr. Tolan has all the figures that I could give him. Mr. 
Tolan has already those figures in letters that I have submitted to him. 
I am interested in that bill. I don't mean that I am not interested in 
clearing up this naturalization backlog, but I am not willing to give 
way on something that I think is right fundamentally. 

STAFF TAXED TO CAPACITY • 

Mr. Armstrong. You asked in your letter to me what I might 
suggest to clear the situation. If I haven't made it plain, the only 
thing I would care to state would be that if we had additional ex- 
aminers and additional investigators and additional clerks and addi- 
tional space, we would be very glad to be current. There isn't any- 
body that feels this situation as keenly as I do. 

Mr. Thomas. Your staff is just taxed to its capacity at the moment? 

Mr. Armstrong. We are doing everything that we can. Anybody 
who has had any dealings with me will testify, I think, that I would 
be glad to do it if I could, but I will not give preference to anybody. 
I don't care who he is. I don't care how much influence is brought 
to bear, I will not give preference to anybody. I think that is known 
pretty well around through the district so that they understand. 

Mr. Thomas. We have heard a lot of comments that you were 
pretty tough about that, and when we asked the further question 
if it wasn't fair, I think all agreed after a minute that it was. 

Mr. Armstrong. I have had them cry on my shoulder and threaten 
to get my job, and both of them have the same effect. I am just 
adamant on that proposition. I can't help but feel that every person 
wdiose application is in there looks to me to be square and fair. I feel 
that if I should reach out here and pick out an application ahead of 
these others my own conscience simply couldn't rest unless I had 
addressed a letter to every one of these others and asked them if they 
had any objection to my taking that out of turn. 

Now, I just can't do it. The central office has backed us up in just 
splendid shape in the last 2 years. Before that it was terrible and it 
was getting worse. Every time that anybody wanted to write to his 
Congressman or his Senator, they would send it to our office and they 
would write out here and tell us to take it out of order. It was just 
terrible. 

Mr. RoBACK. Is that when it was in the Department of Labor? 

military PREFERENCES 

Mr. Armstrong. Yes. But the Department of Labor changed 
before it came under the Department of Justice. The central office 
in the Department of Labor about 2)^ years ago began to back us up 



603ft6 — 42— pt. 31 20 



11918 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

in these and we have not had any cases except these military preference 
cases in the last 2 years where anybody has gone over our heads locally. 

Mr. Thomas. Wliat is that military preference actually? 

Mr. Armstrong. Person in uniform. 

Mr. Thomas. Who because of the war has now become an enemy 
alien? 

Mr. Armstrong. No, no. Anybody. Anybody who is in the 
armed forces or, if he is a layman, anybody they want in the armed 
forces. 

Mr. Thomas. Oh, I see. 

Mr. Armstrong. And they can't take him in because he is an alien 
or he is in the armed forces and he says "I don't know where I am 
going to be pretty soon" and you want to do something for h,ini. Or 
the. other fellow who is in a defense agency. He is in a shipyard or 
some place where he is needed. 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Hallgarten was telling me that when he tried to 
enlist they said "Well, you are an enemy alien. You can't join the 
Army." 

Mr. Armstrong. That is true. I think there are enemy aliens in 
the Army, but whether it is an enemy alien or another person I will 
not give preference to him because he says "If you will make me a 
citizen I will join." But if the enlisting officer says "Everything is 
signed up and this man is coming in, but the only thing that is in the 
way is his citizenship and we would like to have preference," we will 
give him preference. But we want it to come from the other side 
instead of the man. It is easy to promise, of course. 

Mr. RoBACK. That doesn't extend to the relatives of such persons? 

Mr. Armstrong. No. 

Mrs. Godfrey. May I add something? Under the new Nationality 
Code both parents must be citizens before a man is 18 in order for a 
child to derive citizenship. Now, there is a great demand from the 
military for young men from 18 to 21, and if both the parents are not 
citizens by the time that child is 18 it is going to be at least 2 years 
and 30 days or more before he could possibly become a citizen. 

Mr. Thomas. That is based on the assumption that the child is 
born outside of the United States? 

Mrs. Godfrey. Yes, and deriving citizenship through the parents. 
And that is something that you are going to feel pretty soon in our 
manpower situation. 

Mr. RoBACK. I would like to submit a group of exhibits which will 
supplement this hearing. 

Mr. Thomas. They will be made a part of the record. If there is 
nothing further, the committee will stand adjourned. 

(Whereupon, at 11:50 a. m., the committee adjourned.) 



EXHIBITS 



Exhibit 1. — Letter and Tabulation on Alien Enemy Naturali- 
zation Petitions 

submitted by paul armstrong, assistant district director, immigration 
and naturalization service, united states department of justice, 
san francisco, calif. 

March 13, 1942. 
Hon. John H. Tolan, 
Member of Congress, 

Washington, D. C. 
Dear Congressman Tolan: When I appeared before Mr. Leonard Thomas, 
coupsel of the House Committee Investigating National Defense Migration, I was 
asked to submit certain data regarding the filing of petitions for naturalization 
which I did not then have at hand. This had to do with petitions of alien enemies 
pending in the various State courts of the San Francisco district. 

You will find herewith a tabulated statement showing the various State superior 
courts in California, in this naturalization district, with the number of alien 
enemy petitions filed and pending as of March 1, 1942. Figures on such pending 
petitions filed during the month of March will be available at the close of the 
month. 

I hope this information will be of assistance to the committee. 
Yours very truly, 

Paul Armstrong, 
Assistant District Director. 



Alien enemy petitions for naturalization on file and pending in State courts of Cali- 
fornia, in the San Francisco Naturalization District {No. 22) as of Mar.l, 1942. 



Court 
No. 



247 
248 
249 
250 
251 
252 
253 
254 
255 
256 
257 
258 
262 
263 
264 
266 
267 
268 
269 
270 
271 
272 
273 
274 
275 
277 
278 
280 
281 
285 
287 
289 
290 
291 



Location of court 



Oakland, Alameda County. _. 

Markleoville, Alpine County 

Jackson, Amador County 

Oroville, Butte County 

San Andreas, Calaveras County 

Colusa, Colusa County 

Martinez, Contra Costa County. ._ 
Crescent City, Del Norte County.. 

Placerville, Eldorado County 

Fresno, Fresno County 

Willows, Glenn County 

Eureka, Humboldt County 

Hanford, Kings County 

Lakeport, Lake County 

Susanville, Lassen County 

Madera, Madera County 

San Rafael, Marin County 

Mariposa. Mariposa County 

Ukiah. Mendocino County 

Merced, Merced County 

Alturas, Modoc County 

Bridgeport, Mono County 

Salinas, Monterey County.. 

Napa, Napa County 

Nevada City, Nevada County 

Auburn, Placer County 

Quincy, Plumas County 

Sacramento, Sacramento County.. _ 

Hollister, San Benito County 

Stockton, San Joaquin County 

Redwood City, San Mateo County 

San Jose, Santa Clara County 

Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz County — 
Redding, Shasta County 



Italian 



74 


11 
6 
1 
3 

99 
1 


52 
4 
8 

11 


12 

10 

20 


31 

15 



61 

29 


24 
5 

47 

4 

158 



Ger- 
man 



11919 



11920 



LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



Alien enemy petilions for naturalization on file and pending in State courts of Cali- 
fornia, in the San Francisco Naturalization District (No. 22) as of Mar. 1, 1942 — 
Continued 



Court 
No. 



292 
293 
294 
295 
296 
297 
298 
299 
300 
301 
303 
305 



245 
284 



Location of court 



Downieville, Sierra County. _ 

Yreka, Siskiyou C ounty . _ _ 

Fairfield, Solano County 

Santa Rosa, Sonoma County 

Modesto. Stanislaus County 

Yuba City, Sutter County.. 

Red Bluff, Tehama County 

Wcaverville, Trinity County 

Visalia, Tulare County : 

Sonora, Tuolumne County 

Woodland, Yolo County 

Sacramento, United States Court.. . 

Total 

San Francisco, United States Court. 
San Francisco, San Francisco Court 

Total 



Italian 



1,177 
893 

74 



2, 144 



Ger- 
man 



145 
231 
24 



400 



Petition applications pending, awaiting appointment to file 

San Francisco 6,000 (appointments now being made on applications received 
in March 1941). 

Oakland 2,000 (appointments now being made on applications received in 
October 1939). 

Other courts practically current in petition filings. Court hearings in San 
Francisco weekly. Oakland thrice monthly ; San Rafael, Sacramento, San Jose, 
quarterly; Santa" Rosa, Martinez, Fairfield, three times yearly; other courts twice 
yearly. In many courts court naturalization hearings consume several days, the 
courts limiting cases heard to between 30 and 50 per day. Fresno hearing takes 
8 to 10 days twice a year, San Jose 6 to 8 days quarterly, etc. 



Exhibit 2. — Telegrams Requesting Data on Alien-Enemy 
Petitions and Replies 

San Francisco, March 18, 1942. 

Immigration and Naturalization Service, 

Los Angeles, Calif.: 
Please wire total number of enemy-alien petitions pending in your district as 
of March 1 and approximate number of applications for second papers pending 
December 7. Also send air-mail number of enemy-alien petitions for naturaliza- 
tion on file and pending according to respective State and Federal courts. Your 
cooperation appreciated. 

Leonard A. Thomas, 
Counsel, House Committee Investigating National Defense Migration. 



Seattle, Wash., March 18, 1942. 
Leonard Thomas, 

Counsel, House Committee Investigating National Defense Migration, 

San Francisco: 

Six hundred ninety enemy-alien petitions naturalization pending March 1. No 
figures available for applications pending December 7. 

R. P. Bonham. 



Reno, Nev., March 18, 1942. 
Re telegram from San Francisco, Leonard Thomas, Counsel, House Committee 
Investigating National Defense Migration, requesting information by wire re- 
ceived today. In Reno district 44 enemy-aliens petitions pending in State courts, 
2 in Federal courts, 28 pending enemy-alien applications for citizenship, all as of 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11921 

March 1 ; and today approximately a hundred second-paper applications pending 
December 7. Please supply Mr. Thomas with information, his address not fur- 
nished. 

W. J. Kane. 



Portland, Oreg., March 18, 1942. 
Leonard A. Thomas, 

Counsel, House of Representatives Committee Investigating 'National Defense 
Migration: 
Re tel today, 277 enemy-alien petitions pending this office December 7 last, 
and 357 such petitions pending March 1 last. 

R. J. NoRENE, Immigration Director. 



Los Angeles, Calif., March 18, 1942. 
Leonard A. Thomas, 

Counsel, House Committee Investigating Defense Migration, 

San Francisco, Calif: 
Re your tel, total number enemy-alien petitions pending this district as of 
March 1, 1,203; total number enemj'-ahen applications for second papers pending 
as of December 7 approximately 600, which figure includes only those whose 
petitions had not yet been filed. Other information requested will follow air 
mail. 

Carmichabl, 
District Director, Los Angeles District. 



Spokane, Wash., March 19, 1942. 
Leonard A. Thomas, 

Counsel, House Committee Investigating National Defense Migration: 
Re tel March 18 report 152 enemy alien petitions as defined section 326 National- 
ity Act of 1940 pending this district March 1. Impossible to obtain number ap- 
plications submitted by enemy aliens pending December 7, closest estimate 153. 
Additional information requested follows air mail. 

D. W. Brewster, 
District Director Immigration and Naturalization. 



Philadelfhia, March 16, 1942. 
Mr. Herbert Schimmel, 

Committee on Defense Migration, 

House of Representatives, Washington, D. C. 
My Dear Mr. Schimmel: With respect to your request which was delivered 
to me on March 11 for information as to the number of German and Italian aliens 
in Washington, Oregon, California, and Arizona, who have actually filed their 
petitions for naturalization, and an indication of the period of time between the 
filing of the petitions and the acquisition of citizenship, I can inform you as foUows: 



state 


Germans 


Italians 


Average 
waiting 
period 






ISl 
123 
939 
400 
539 
8 


198 

183 

2,815 

2,144 

671 

5 


6 months. 




3 months. 


California - 






6-8 months. 




4 months. 




5 months. 








Total enemy alien 


1,251 


3.201 









Trusting this will serve your purposes, I am, 
Very truly j'ours, 

Lemuel B. Schofield, 
Special Assistant to the Attorney General. 



11922 



LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



Mr. Leonard A. Thomas, 
Counsel, House Committee 

Investigating National Defense Migration, 

San Francisco, Calif. 
Dear Sir: Reference is made to your telegram of March 18, 1942, requesting 
certain information regarding enemy alien applicants for naturalization. 

As you were earlier informed by wire, there were 152 enemy alien petitions 
on file in this district as of March 1, 1942. There are no figures available by which 
the number of applications submitted by enemy aliens pending as of December 7 
can be ascertained The closest estimate which this office can furnish would indi- 
cate that approximately 153 such applications were then pending. 

I am enclosing herewith a list by courts of enemy alien petitions now pending 
in this district. The district includes portions of the States of Washington, 
Oregon, and Idaho, and the complete State of Montana. 

All figures furnished relate to enemy alien cases as defined under section 326 of 
the Nationality Act of 1940. 
Very truly yours, 

D. W. Brewster, 
District Director, Spokane District. 



[Copy] 

Enemy Alien Petitions Pending as of Mar. 

District 



1, 1942. Spokane Naturalization 



WASHINGTON 

United States district courts: 

Spokane 34 

Yakima 9 

Walla Walla 4 

Superior courts: 

Ellensburg 9 

Goldendale 1 

Okanogan 1 

Pasco 1 

Prosser 2 

Waterville 1 

Wenatchee 2 

OREGON 

No Federal courts. 

Circuit courts: 

Canyon Citj' 1 

Heppner 1 

Pendleton 1 

IDAHO 

United States district courts: Coeur 

d'Alene 2 

District courts: 

Challis 1 

Grangeville 1 

Lewiston 4 

Orofino 1 

Sandpoint 2 

Wallace 4 



MONTANA 

United States district courts: 

Butte 8 

District courts: 

Anaconda 7 

Big Timber .. 1 

Billings 7 

Bozeman 1 

Butte 7 

Choteau 1 

Conrad 2 

Cut Bank 1 

Deer Lodge 1 

Dillon 1 

Glasgow 1 

Glendive 1 

Great Falls 15 

Havre 1 

Helena 4 

Livingston 2 

Malta 1 

Missoula 3 

Red Lodge 2 

Roundup 1 

Scobev 1 

Shelby 1 

Stanford 1 

Terrv 1 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11923 

[Air Mail] 

United States Department of Justice, 
Immigration and Naturalization Service, 

Los Angeles, Calif., March 19, 194^. 
Hon. Leonard A. Thomas, 

Counsel House Committee Investigating National Defense Migration, 

San Francisco, Calif. 
Dear Sir: Reference is made to your telegram of March 18, 1942, requesting 
information covering petitions for naturalization filed by alien enemies in this 
district. 

There is attached hereto a list setting out by courts the number of petitions for 
naturalization filed by ahen enemies and now pending in this district. 

The other information requested was furnished to you by telegram on March 18. 
Very truly yours, 

William A. Carmichael, 
District Director, Los Angeles District. 
By Harry B. Blee, 

Assistant District Director. 

Petitions for Naturalization by Alien Enemies Pending in the Los 
Angeles District on Mar. 18, 1942 

United States District Court, Los Angeles, Calif 1, 099 

Superior court: 

El Centro, Calif 3 

Bakersfield, Calif 12 

Riverside, Calif 3 

San Bernardino, Calif 42 

San Diego, Calif 28 

San Luis Obispo, Calif 3 

Santa Barbara, Calif 17 

Ventura, Calif 7 

Independence, Calif 

Yuma, Ariz 1 

Kingman, Ariz 

District court. Las Vegas, Nev 1 

Total ■- 1.216 



[Air MaU] 



United Stated Department of Justice, 
Immigration and Naturalization Service, 

Seattle. Wash., March 18, 1942. 
Leonard A. Thomas, 

Counsel, House Committee Investigating National Defense Migration, 

San Francisco, Calif. 

Dear Sir: There is enclosed confirmation of telegram of even date. As 
stated therein, no figures are available as to applications for second papers pending 
December 7. 

The statement below shows the number of alien enemy petitions for naturaliza- 
tion filed and pending in this district on March 1, 1942. Separate figures as they 
related to State and Federal courts in Oregon are not available, but it is believed 
that most of the petitions are pending in the United States District Court at 
Portland. Our divisional director at Portland might furnish you with the data 
vou desire if more detail is required. 



11924 



LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 



Alien enemv petitions for naturalization filed and pending in Seattle distirct, 
March 1, 1942: 

Alaska — Federal court: 

German 13 

Italian 6 

Oregon — Federal and State courts: 

German 170 

Italian 183 

Washington — Federal court: 

German 121 

Italian 147 

State courts: 

German 36 

Italian 14 

Yours very truly, 

R. P. BONHAM, 

District Director, Seattle District. 



[Air Mail] 



United States Department of Justice, 
Immigration and Naturalization Service, 

Portland, Or eg., March 18, 1942. 
Mr. Leonard A. Thomas, 

Counsel, House of Representatives, Committee 

Investigating Naiional Defense Migration, San Francisco, Calif. 
Dear Sir: Receipt is hereby acknowledged of your telegram of the 18th instant, 
and, as you are already aware, the following information was sent to you today by 
telegraph : 

On December 7, 1941, we had 277 petitions for citizenship pending which were 
filed by enemy aliens. 

On March 1, 1942, we had 357 such petitions pending. 

You also request the number of enemy alien petitions pending in the representa- 
tive State and Federal courts in this jurisdiction. This information is as follows: 



U. S. District Court: 

Medford, Oreg 3 

Portland, Oreg 312 

State courts in Oregon: 

Corvallis 2 

Astoria 1 

Coquille 3 

Roseburg 1 

Hood River 1 

Medford 2 

Klamath Falls 6 



State courts in Oregon — Continued. 

Eugene 7 

Salem 1 

Tillamook 1 

Hillsboro 1 

McMinnville 3 

Bend 6 

State courts, State of Washington: 

Vancouver 3 

Kelso 2 

Stevenson 2 



In this connection your attention is respectfully invited to the fact that there are 
six counties in Oregon over which this office does not exercise naturalization juris- 
diction. These counties are Morrow, Umatilla, Wallowa, Union, Grant, and 
Baker. These six counties are under the jurisdiction of the district director of 
immigration and naturalization, Spokane, Wash. 
Respectfully, 

R. J. Norene, 
Divisional Director. 



Exhibit 3. — Martial Law 

Martial law is first to be distinguished from military law and military govern- 
ment. Military law is that body of law governing the armed forces, to be found 
in such documents as the national defense acts, the Articles of War, and the 
Manual for Courts Martial and is administered by Army officers. Except in rare 
instances, civilians are not subject to military law (Weiner, p. 6). Military 
government is the government by the military forces of territory occupied by a 
belligerent. "Martial law is the carrying on of government in domestic territory 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11925 

by military agencies, in whole or in part, with the consequent supersession of some 
or all civil agencies" (Weiner, p. 10). 

BASIS AND LIMITATIONS OF MARTIAL LAW 

Martial law, while specifically mentioned in the constitutions of some States, 
is nowhere mentioned in the Constitution of the United States. As exercised by 
the Federal Government, therefore, it is an implied power inherent in the express 
powers mentioned in the Constitution ; for example, to raise and maintain an army, 
to declare war, and the power of the President as Commander in Chief to conduct 
the military. (For the war powers see the Constitution, art. I, sec. 8, pars. 11-16, 18). 
The war powers and the power of the President as Commander in Chief give to 
Congress and the President large grants of authority which would not be coun- 
tenanced in peacetimes but which are essential to the success of the war effort. 
It would seem to be the correct view that, although these do often result in 
transgressions on the rights of persons which would be unconstitutional in peace- 
times, the emergency nature of war, although not suspending the constitutional 
guaranties, supersedes them temporarily. That is, the war power is itself con- 
stitutional and exists in peacetimes even though unexercised; in time of war its 
exercise is also constitutional even though abridging peacetime freedoms (The 
Civilian and the War Power, 2 Minn. L. Rev. 110, 111). This does not mean, 
however, that the existence of a state of war gives an unbridled right to Congress 
or to the President or to any officer of the military to impose, in all situations, 
rules and regulations on the civilian populace. A declaration of war is not 
tantamount to an abdication of all processes of civil government. Martial law 
as an adjunct of the war power is exercisable only when it is in some close degree 
connected with the military effort. It may be used to exercise control over mili- 
tar}' depots, to protect war production, or in points close to the theater of war. 
It is when the exercise of the power is not in matters close to the military effort 
that its limitations appear. Necessity is generally considered to be the basis for 
the exercise of the power bv students of the subject (1 Calif. L. Rev. 413, 12 
Columbia L. Rev. 529, 24 Yale L. J. 189, 14 Mich. L. Rev. 102. 197, 45 L. R. A. 
(NS) 996 collecting cases)*. In United States v. Diekehnan, (92 U. S. 520), the 
Supreme Court defined martial law as " * * * the law of necessity in the actual 
presence of war." And in Ex Parte MiUigan (4 Wall. 121) the leading case on the 
extent of martial law, it was held that there must be an actual necessity to justify 
its employment and that a constructive necessity as determined by a proclamation 
of the President would not be sufficient. In that case it was held that Congress 
had no power during the Civil War to suspend or authorize the suspension of the 
writ of habeas corpus outside of the sphere of military activities and where the 
courts were still functioning {Mitchell v. Harmony, 14 Law, ed. 113), supports 
the same doctrine. Fairman, in what is supposed to be one of the best books 
on the subject (the Law of ^Martial Rule, 1930), says at page 186: 

"When we come to the war powers of Congress, the test is not whether the 
measures were indispensable, but whether they were 'necessary and proper' 
which means 'appropriate' * * * " 

So far, then, we see that martial law is to be limited to the theatre of war, 
where the necessity is obvious, and to such territory around it as that same 
necessity may dictate and no farther. Even during the last war there was some 
degree of debate in legal articles as to how far the "theater of war" might extend, 
for example, if a lone submarine shells a coastal point does that point, or just that 
point, or the whole coast become a "theater of war"? Nevertheless, once beyond 
these rather indefinite bounds defined bj^ "necessity," the exercise of the power 
becomes unconstitutional for the necessities of war no longer require it and ordinary 
guaranties of personal liberty, etc., prevail. 

INVOCATION OF MARTIAL LAW 

As martial law is based on necessity, so it does not stem from formal proclama- 
tions or orders. Although some States hold that the Executive's proclamation of 
emergencj' is conclusive, this would not seem sound, as is illustrated in those 
cases in which the military has been used by the Governor in a totally unauthorized 
manner, and this view has not been followed as to the Federal power {Ex Parle 
MiUigan). A proclamation, therefore, does not create the necessity. The 
situation creates the necessity and justifies the exercise of the power. It does not 
inhere in the President alone as Commander in Chief but may be exercised by 
subordinates if the occasion presents itself. Although martial law was much in 



11926 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

vogue during the Civil War and was invoked in both the actual theater of war 
and in the border States, only two proclamations of such were ever made by the 
President eo nomine (Fairman, p. 96). Too, there is some ambiguity of thought 
on the cjuestion as to whether the final authority in the production of a state of 
martial law lies with the President or with Congress as both exercise war powers 
to which martial law may be an adjunct. As a practical matter, as pointed out 
above, it is often invoked even without presidential warrant b}'' military com- 
manders and Congress does take steps — such as sus[)ending the writ of habeas 
corpus by statutory declaration — which produce qualified martial law. 

EXTENT OF MAHTIAL LAW AS REGARDS ITS DISPLACEMENT OF ORDINARY CIVIL 

GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONS 

It is not necessary to have either total martial law or no martial law. There 
may be varying degrees of supersession of the civil authority depending on the 
situation at hand. Anything less than total martial law is known as qualified 
martial law. Here again the limits of a permissible imposition will be military 
necessity. So it was that in Ex. Parte Milligan the suspension of the writ of 
habeas corpus in Indiana was held not justified, whereas it is commonly i-ecognized 
that the use of military authority over vital production or storage areas in the 
same State most likely would be justified. 

The generally accepted view is that martial law, even as exercised b}- the 
President, is not unrestrained. As stated by Willoughby (Constitution of the 
United States, 2d ed. p. 1592V' * * * when martial law is in force, no new 
powers are given to the Executive, no extension of arbitrary authority is recog- 
nized, no civil rights of the individual are suspended. (The writ of habeas corpus 
is not automatically suspended by a declaration or exercise of qualified martial 
law.) The relations of the citizen to his State are unchanged. Whatever inter- 
ference there may be with his personal freedom or property rights must be justified, 
as in the case of the police power, by necessity, actually existing or reasonably 
presumed." 

Fairman at page 185, '< * * * it jg axiomatic that war does not suspend the 
constitutional guarantees," citing Ex Parte Milligan, United States v. Cohen 
Grocery Co. (225 U. S. 81). Also see Hamilton v. Kj/. Distilleries (251 U. S. 146) 
on this same point. The truth in these statements is made all the more emphatic 
by holdings to the eff"ect that even persons engaged in insurrection are not outside 
the scope of constitutional protection. Their property cannot be confiscated 
without redress (Herily v. Donahue, 52 Mont. 601, 161 Pac. 164). ^ They may get 
damages or injunctive relief for excessive injuries or restraints {Franks v. Smith, 
134 S. W. 484; Sterling v. Constantin, 287 U. S. 378). 

Martial rule is, therefore, to be viewed as a constitutional measure based on 
and measured by public necessity which may justify certain impositions so long 
as and to the extent that public necessity requires. 

STATUS OF THE CITIZEN AND OF THE ALIEN-ENEMY UNDER MARTIAL LAW 

Much that is done in the restriction of resident alien enemies as to their personal 
movements or in regard to their property is not done by way of martial law but 
by way of statute, etc., and it is well recognized that there is great latitude in the 
measures that may be taken. Although case authority is conspicuous by its 
absence, it would seem that as to martial law a reasonable presumption as to 
necessity for control of the conduct of enemy aliens may more easily be made out 
by reason of the very fact of their status and the fact that they are more possibly 
dangerous to the state. It is undisputed that they may be excluded from vital 
military areas, but it was considered quite a drastic step to intern Germans long 
resident in England during the last war. 

Citizens are, of course, more protected by the "necessity" requirement and 
constitutional guaranties which do not extend "to aliens. It is in their case that the 
limitations above described must come into play. 

EXECUTIVE PROCLAMATION OF FEBRUARY 19, 1942 (NO. 9006) 

This is an authorization by the President as Commander in Chief authorizing 
the Secretary of War and such military commanders as he may designate to pre- 
scribe "military areas" in such places and to such extent as the designating officer 
may determine in his discretion from which "all persons" may be excluded, or 
whose presence therein my be regulated by the Army, with the provision for care 
of removed persons. Federal troops may be used to enforce compliance. 



NATIONAL DEFENSE MIGRATION 11927 

The opening paragraph of the proclamation designates it a measure to protect 
from espionage and sabotage national-defense materials, premises, and utilities 
as defined in certain long standing acts of Congress. The proclamation would 
seem to be at once an authorization from the Commander in Chief to invoke a 
qualified martial law and a restriction on that action to limit it to those areas 
wherein may be found military activity or activities in aid of the war effort. It 
ought not to be questioned that the armed forces are the appropriate means of 
protecting such areas and a measure of martial rule is justified for the protection 
of such vital areas. Whether or not the action actually taken under the proclama- 
tion on the west coast, in declaring a whole half State a military area from which 
are to be moved a certain group of enemy aliens and their citizen descendants, is 
action not at all justified by the circumstances or, if so justified, is in excess of the 
authority given by the President, must be determined on the basis of the prin- 
ciples set out above if it is to be viewed as an instance of martial rule. 

It must be recognized that, although as a practical matter the military may 
exceed the bounds of authority herein set out and that at the time it may be 
impossible to obtain civil redress or injunctive relief, nevertheless such action 
according to past standards and experience has not been found to be justified 
and the considerations above set out should be given serious thought for reaso 
of policy and in the ever present eflfort to protect and preserve our democratic 
institutions. 

Robert J. Dell'Ergo, 
Boalt Hall of Law, University of California, Berkeley, Calif. 

"Weiner" referred to above in the text is a recent book "A Practical Manual 
of Martial Law" by Frederick Bernaj's Weiner published in 1940. 



Exhibit 4. — Liability or Stateless Persons for Military Service 

REPORT BY RICHARD GRAU, 1914 VINE STREET, BERKELEY, CALIF. 

Section 3 (a) of the Selective Training and Service Act as amended by act of 
Congress of December 20, 1941 (ch 602, 1st sess., 77th Cong.) provides as follows: 

"Except as otherwise provided in this act, everv male citizen of the United 
States, and every other male person residing in the United States, who is between 
the ages of 20 and 4.5 at the time fixed for his registration, or who attains the age 
of 20 * * * shall be liable for training and service in the land or naval 
forces of the United States: Provided, That any citizen of a neutral country shall 
be relieved from liability for training and service under this act if, prior to his 
induction into the land or naval forces, he has made application to be relieved 
from such liabilities in the manner prescribed by and in accordance with rules 
and regulations prescribed by the President, but any person who makes such 
application shall thereafter be debarred from becoming citizen of the United 
States: Provided further, That no citizen or subject of anj' country who has been 
or who may hereafter be proclaimed by the President to be an alien enemy of 
the United States shall be inducted for training and service under this act unless 
he is acceptable to the land or naval forces." 

The above provision makes liable for military service "every male citizen of 
the United States, and every other male person residing in the United States." 
Within the latter class are the stateless persons. Both provisos which make 
certain exemptions are not applicable to stateless persons. 

The first proviso mentions in clear term, "citizens of a neutral country." The 
reason for the special treatment of such persons are international treaties or 
general principles of international law (discussed already during the last war) 
which made it advisable not to provide for compulsory service of citizens of 
other countries which are neutral. Said reason originates onlv in consideration 
of the interests of those countries, citizens of which are residing in the United 
States. In the case of stateless persons there are no such foreign countries 
involved. 

The second proviso in turn is also applicable exclusively to citizens or subjects 
of a foreign country. This proviso as distinguished from the first proviso applies 
to citizens or subjects of a country at war with the United States. There are 
again reasons based on international law which exclude compulsion of citizens or 
subjects of those countries to serve in the armed forces of the United States. 
Stateless persons owe no allegiance whatsoever to any foreign country, so that 
the second proviso is also not applicable to them. 



11928 LOS ANGELES AND SAN FRANCISCO HEARINGS 

The information sheet attached contains a summary of board release No. 112, 
Bulletin 60, issued by Col. Arthur V. McDermott, New York City, Director of 
Selective Service. 

At the end of the summary the conclusion is drawn that stateless persons are 
liable for military service. See the following statement at page 2: 

"The provision that neutral aliens may file applications for exemption from 
service was introduced in order to comply with international treaties and does 
not refer to stateless persons nor to citizens and subjects of countries which are 
not expressly recognized as neutral * * *." 

The above statement takes it obviously as self-evident that stateless persons 
are not citizens or subjects of countries at war with the United States and that 
they are subject to military service without any limitation or exemption, their 
liability being equal in all respects to the absolute liability of United States 
citizens. 



The Psychological Factors Connected with the Refugee Problems 
added statement by richard grau 

I. The action taken against Jews and liberals in Germany under the Nazi 
regime was an essential part of Hitler's foreign policy and his preparations fcr the 
present war. Barring minor points, three main effects were aimed at by Hitler's 
anti-Semitic program: The average German should feel himself superior to cer- 
tain other people which was a preparatory step for building up the master race 
idea. Secondly, the beating of the Jews and liberals was the setting of an impres- 
sive example for the subjugation of a group to a status of disparagement and out- 
lawry — again a preparatory step for similar subjugation of peaceful nations in 
Europe. Finally, the treatment of vhe Jews in Germany was likely to increase 
anti-Semitism and to spread the germ of discord in many other countries which 
was a further very effective preparatory step for the present war. It should be 
remembered that Hitler, whenever he tried to bring a new country into the Axis 
orbit, requested the issuing of decrees corresponding to the Nuremberg laws by 
that country m order to differentiate such country from the democratic nations. 

The close connection between Hitler's actions against Jews and liberals in Ger- 
many and his striving for world domination makes it clear that the refugees from 
Geniiany can truly be designated as the first subjected people. They are not 
merely victims of Hitler's interior politics. In the light of later events it has 
become clear that the same ambition to dominate the world is behind the struggle 
of the Nazis against the Jews as behind their conquests of peaceful countries in 
Europe. 

The refugees are also much aware of the complete analogy between their own fate 
and that of the subjected nations that they felt deeply disappointed when they 
were classified as enemies; in other words, considered as companions of their own 
conquerors. 

II. One of the direct consequences of the campaign of the Nazis against the 
Jews and the liberals was the feeling of complete isolation which overcame the 
victims and brought them into despair. They were not only excluded from all 
activities in the community life but also their human interrelationships were closely 
supervised and in connection therewith gradually limited to the utmost extent. 

Man is a social animal. He therefore cannot suffer such treatment without 
considerable increase of his need for co;itacts and cooperation with other people. 
Since exclusion from normal human relationships has so long been the lot of the 
refugees, the possibility of further exclusion has become a nightmare to them. 
Nothing in the world can terrify the average refugee more than the prospect of 
becoming an outlaw again. That psychological factor makes the refugees partic- 
ularly vulnerable against their treatment as enemy ahens. The term "enemy" 
is apt to deprive them of a good deal of their hardly regained self-confidence and 
to imperil tlieir feeling that they have become a ^velcome part of a great entity. 

III. On December 7, 1941, a wave of enthusiasm and hope went through the 
refugee people. To be sure, their gratefulness toward the American Nation and 
the President and their hatred against the Nazis had a big part in causing that 
enthusiasm. However, the hope to be admitted to share in America's war effort 
was a further factor which was largely responsible for that enthusiasm. They 
evisaged their chance to use whatever strength and skill they have for something 
better than individual purposes. At last, so they felt, they would be admitted 
to cooperate in a great common cause. It is hard to describe the appalling dis- 



NATIONAL DEFENSE JVUGRATION 11929 

appointment which followed when they saw themselves designated as dangerous 
to that very cause, in which to cooperate they had been so eager. 

Very realistic fears regarding the future accompany their present disappoint- 
ment. In 20 or 30 years from now, long after the end of the war, the refugees 
and their children living as citizens in this country will be asked why they did not 
do their full share in the war. Explanations in the way that as enemy aliens they 
were not allowed to do their full share will be of little avail in those future times. 
I