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Full text of "The Northern California District of the Communist Party, structure, objectives, leadership. Hearings"




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THE NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 
OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY 
Structure — Objectives — Leadership 

HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-SIXTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



PART 2 

MAY 13, 1960 



Printed for the use of the Committee ou Un-American Activities 

(Index in Part 3) 

HARVARD COUESt l!e«Ai?>X 

OEPOSIiEO BY THE 

USITLO STATES GOVERNf^EMT 




UNITED STATES 

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 

WASHINGTON : 19G0 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Representatives 
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman 

MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

CLYDE DOYLE, California GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio 

EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana WILLIAM E. MILLER, New York 

WILLIAM M. TUCK, Virginia AUGUST E. JOHANSEN, Michigan 

Richard Areks, Staff Director 
II 



C O N T E N T S 



Page 

Svuop.sis (See Part 1, p. 1921) 

May 12, 19(30: 

Testimony of — ■ 

Irving P'ishman, llarlin Wong, Stephen K. Louie 1934 

William A. Wheeler 1952 

Barbara Ilartle 1956 

Doughus Wachter 1 966 

AFTERXOON SESSION 

Barbara Ilartle (resumed) 1969 

Merle Brodsky 1984 

Martin Irving Marcus 1995 

PART 2 

Synopsis (See Part 1, p. 1921) 

May 13, 1960: 

Testimony of — 

WiUiam A. Wheeler (resumed) 2000 

Barbara Ilartle (resumed) 2003 

Leibel Bergman 2004 

Vernon Bown 2012 

Joseph Figueiredo 2017 

Noel Harris 2024 

Ann Deirup 2027 

AFTERXOOX SESSION 

Karl Prussiou _ 2031 

Elizabeth :\I. Nicholas 2055 

Donald II. Clark 2057 

Morris Graham 2059 

Martin Ludwig 2062 

William Mandel 2065 

Jack Weintraub 2068 

John Andrew Negro 207 1 

Sally Attarian Sweet 2074 

Tyler Brooke 2076 

Elmer E. Johnson 2079 

Karl Prussion (resumed) 2080 

Elmer E. Johnson (resumed) 2080 

PART 3 

Synopsis (See Part I, p. 1921) 

May 14, I960: 

Testimony of — • 

Karl Prussion (resu med) 2083 

Thomas Cahill 2088 

Michael J. Maguire 2091 

Tillman II. Erb 2092 

Archie Brown 2096 

Louis Zeitz 2099 

* Documents referred to In Parts 1 and 3 of the proceedinpa appear in the Appendix, 
Part 4 of this series, see pp. 2205-2404. 

ni 



IV CONTENTS 

May 14, 1960— Continued 

Testimony of — Continued Pasa 

Matthew C. Carberry 2101 

Thomas Grabor 2107 

Rayme Ellis 2109 

Lottie L. Rosen 2111 

Betty Halpern 2116 

Lillian Ransome 2118 

Edward Ross 2 1 20 

Karl Prussion (resumed) 2124 

Edward Ross (resumed) 2125 

Ruben Venger 2126 

Ralph Izard 2128 

William Reich 2139 

Ralph (Kenneth) Johnsen 2142 

Doris Dawson 2145 

Karl Prussion (resumed) 2146 

Doris Dawson (resumed) 2146 

Travis L. Rafferty 2147 

Saul Wachter 2148 

John Allen Johnson 2151 

Laurent B. Frantz 2156 

Bertram Edises 2161 

June 10, 1960: 

Testimony of Karl Prussion (resumed) 2177 

Index i 

APPENDIX— PART 4 

Committee Exhibits 1 through 31 2205—2384 

Prussion Exhibit 1 2385 

Prussion Exhibit 3 2401 

Index i 



Public T.aw GOl, TOtii Congress 

The legislation under which (he House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Paw GOl, TOth Congress [194G] ; 60 Stat. 
812, which provides : 

Be is enacted 1)1/ the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * •' * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

RXTLE X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 
* ****** 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit- 
tee, is authorized to malie from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attaclis 
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and 
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any neces- 
sary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



Rule XII 

LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT BY STANDING COMMITTEES 

Sec. 136. To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of the laws 
and in developing such amendments or related leigslation as it may deem neces- 
sary, each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Representatives 
shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the administrative 
agencies concerned of any laws, tlie subject matter of which is within the jurisdic- 
tion of such committee ; and, for that purpose, shall study all pertinent reports 
and data submitted to the Congress by the agencies in the executive branch of 
the Government. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 86TH CONGRESS 

House Resolution 7, January 7, 1959 
******* 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress, 
******* 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 
******* 

Rule XI 

POWEIBS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
*•****• 

18. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

( a ) Un-American activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States. 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remetlial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 

******* 

26. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in 
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary, 
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness 
of the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject 
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee; and, for that 
purpose, shall study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House by 
the agencies in the executive branch of the Government. 

VI 



THE NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT OF THE 

COMMUNIST PARTY 

Stnicfiire — Objectives — Leadership 

(Part 2) 



FRIDAY, MAY 13, 1960 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee or the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

San Francisco^ Calif. 
public hearings 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to recess, at 9:30 a.m., in the supervisors chambers, 
City Hall Buildino;, San Francisco, Calif., Hon. Edwin E. Willis 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. 

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Edwin E. Willis, 
of Louisiana, and August E. Johansen, of Michigan. 

Staff members present: Richard Arens, staff director; William A. 
Wheeler, investigator; and Fulton Lewis III, research analyst. 

Mr. Willis. The subcommittee will be in order, please. 

Mr. Arens, please call your next witness. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, before calling the witness, I should like 
to make a couple of announcements, if I may, please. 

I would like to call the Chair's attention to a situation which I think 
will be gratifying to the committee. 

Last evening, at the hotel at which the committee is staying during 
our visit here in San Francisco, we received, at least up imtil about 
l>edtime, over 1,000 telegrams from the citizenry — just plain Mr. and 
Mrs. America — here in the San Francisco area and throughout Cal- 
ifornia, strongly endorsing the work of the committee, urging the 
committee not to be in any sense dissuaded by the demonstrations 
and by the activities of the Communists in these proceedings. 

Mr. Wn.Lis. We will not tolerate demonstrations either pro or 
con. It does not make any difference. We must face that issue. It 
will not be tolerated. 

Mr. Arens. The committee does not have here the facilities to an- 
swer these telegrams or to express committee appreciation, so I thought 
the chairman might like to have his attention called to this vote of 
confidence, although the committee does not in any sense feel it is 
engaged in a popularity contest with the Communists. 

The citizenry here has, unsolicited, made its expression to the com- 
mittee of the committee's work. 

1999 



2000 COJVIMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Secondly, Mr. Chairman, it was the intention of the staff to produce 
for testimony this mornin<r a person who is presently serving in the 
conspiracy as an undercover agent. In view of the combination of 
circumstances, including the seriousness of the operation, itself, by 
the process of communication with that person we have decided to 
defer that testimony. 

Whether it will come at all during this particular hearing, we are 
not prepared to say. 

We, therefore, are proposing to proceed by having identifications 
made of certain intraparty documents, then having the significance of 
those documents interpreted by jNIrs. Hartle. 

Then we expect to interrogate certain of the persons who are in- 
volved in the pattern of activity revealed by these documents. 

Then, this afternoon, Mr. Chairman, we expect to have at least one 
friendly witness who has broken from the conspiracy — whose break, 
incidentally, is known by the conspiracy — to testify and to proceed 
interrogating other persons respecting the general subject matter. 

Therefore, ]Mr. Chairman, if it meets with your approval, we should 
like to request that JNIr. William "WHieeler, of the staff, resume the 
witness chair. He was sworn yesterday. 

I would like for him to identify certain documents. 

Mr. Wii-xis. Proceed, Mr. Wheeler. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM A. WHEELER— Eesumed 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Wheeler, you were sworn yesterday? 

Mr. Wheeler. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you identified yourself yesterday on this record 
as an investigator for the Committee on Un-American Activities? 

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you gave us your background and experience ni 
this field ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Wheeler. Correct, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Wheeler, yesterday you introduced documents 
which you had acquired in the course of your official duties as an 
investigator of this committee, certain documents from unimpeach- 
able intelligence sources revealing a course of activity in the recent 
past within the conspiratorial operation in California. 

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly proceed with identification and a 
brief sununary description of the documents which were introduced 
yesterday as Committee Exhibit No. 28? (See App., p. 2350.) 

Mr. Wheeler. This particular document relates to an interfight 
in the Communist Party of San Francisco. It refers particularly to 
the section known as the AFL Section, American Federation of Labor. 

This section was composed of members of the Communist Party 
who were also members of the AFL; the AFL Section of the Com- 
munist Party here evidently thought they were entitled to a little 
free expression, to foi'mulate their own ]iolicy. 

This idea they had didn't set well with their leadership of the 
party in this area, that is, the county committee of the Communist 
Party of the Northern District of California, in San Francisco. 

Their position for free expression led to the expulsion of the organ- 
izer of the AFL Section, a man by the name of Vem Bown. 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2001 

As a result of his expulsion, the AFL Section was disbanded also 
and thrown out of the part3\ 

In November oi" last year 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Wheeler, so this record may be clear, the AFL as 
a labor entity, and particularly the head of the AFL, George Meany, 
are strouolv, adamantly, anti-Connnunist; is that corrects 

Mr. AVheelkr. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Arexs. You are speaking now of documents revealing an at- 
tempt by the Communists in California to penetrate that organization? 

Mr. WiiEEEEU. That is correct; yes, sir. 

In November 1959, the section committee of the AFL Section pre- 
pared a document which was presented to the National Convention, 
CPUSA, New York City, in which they outlined the difficulties they 
were having with the leadership in northern California. 

This document appealed to the National Committee, CPUSA, to 
reestablish the AFL Section, to come to San Francisco and investi- 
gate the expulsion of Vern Bown and the disbanding of the section. 

Nothing was done concerning this at all. The section is still out 
of the Communist Party, and Mr. Bown is still expelled, as far as 
we know, at this time. 

The second section of this document is a report made by the section 
organizer of the AFL Section in 1959, Mr. Vern Bown, 

In this document, he outlines the progress of the AFL Section and 
also claims that they were following the Communist Party line and 
its objectives and is very disturbed about the expulsion. 

Mr. Arens. ]\Ir. Wheeler, will you hesitate there and let me make 
a statement for the record. You tell me whether or not it is correct. 

I am trying to interpret what you are saying so that the record will 
be absolutely clear as to these documents that are before you. 

The first document you have there is a report, is it not, to the 
National Committee of the Communist Party, in which the author 
of the report is complaining to the National Committee of the Com- 
munist Party respecting the expulsion from the Communist Party of 
certain comrades ? Is that correct ? 

Mr. Wheeler. Of one comrade. 

Mr. Arens. Of one comrade. 

Mr, Wheeler. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. The second section of the report or of the document 
which you have, which you have identified, is a report of a section 
leader of the Communist faction within the AFL in California? 

Mr, Wheeler. No, the second section is a report of the AFL Sec- 
tion Organizer, Mr. Vern Bown, to a meeting of the party's AFL 
Section in San Francisco in 1959; the report was also submitted to 
the party's Executive Committee for the Northern California Dis- 
trict. Tie outlines the progress made by the AFL Section under his 
direction. 

Mr. Arens. When you speak of the AFL Section, you are speaking 
of a section of the conspiracy which had penetrated the AFL activities ; 
is that correct ? 

IVIr. Wheeler. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Now, tell us what is the third segment of your report. 

Mr. Wheeler. The third segment is the report made by the sec- 
tion organizer of the AFL Section for the year 1958, Leibel Bergman. 



2002 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

All these documents Tvere presented to the National Committee, 
CPUSA, with an appeal that they come to San Francisco and investi- 
<^ate the reason why Mr. Bown was expelled and the AFL Section 
disbanded. 

Mr. Arexs. Does the initial report there, in which the author is 
complaining to the National Committee respecting' the expulsion of 
one of the comrades who was a leader in the AFL Section of the 
party — does that report complain as to the processes and procedures 
used by the Communist Party of California as a prerequisite to tlie 
expulsion itself ? 

Mr. Wheeler. It certainly does. It is very revealing,. 

Mr. Arens. Does the report compare the procedures of the com- 
rndes in expelling a comrade to police state methods? 

Mr. Wheeler. It certainly does. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, does the report reveal the comrades 
in their own trial proceedings hardly follow the patterns of fair play 
and justice? 

Mr. Wheeler. That is right. He is entitled to no representation. 
1 le is entitled to no witnesses. In fact, they said that the Communist 
Party cell has conducted trials worse than our Government in Smith 
Act cases. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, that report reveals a Communist com- 
])]aining to the National Committee that the Communist Party, itself, 
ill the expulsion proceedings of other comrades uses methods which 
the comrade compares to the Smith Act cases which the party has 
been complaining about ever since the Government has been trying 
t o imprison the traitors of this country ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Wheeler. That is right. They claim that this trial was worse 
than the Smith Act cases; that the Communists themselves had more 
freedom of expression and degree of defense in the Smith Act cases 
than they, themselves, have in their internal 

Mr. Arens. Indirectly, then, the comrade is complimenting the 
(Government of the United States on the fair play of our judicial 
system ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Wheeler, Well, I don't know Avhether they are complimenting 
or not, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Is the record clear, ]\Ir. Wheeler, that you have pro- 
cured these documents which you have in your hand from unim- 
])eachable sources? 

Mr. Wheeler. That is true. 

Mr. Arens. Of known reliability, intelligence sources. 

Mr. Wheeler. It came from internally, withm the Communist 

I 'arty. I might add one tiling. 

In this complaint — it sets forth a lot of them, which I know Mrs. 

I I artle is going into — it says : 

All members of the Section are forbidden to associate with the Organizer in 
any oflBcial capacity. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, the Communist Party is directing the 
comrades to not have certain associations? 

Mr. Wheeler. Not to have any. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Thank you, Mr. Wlieeler. 

Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that for a few moments, 
based on her background and experience in the hard-core conspiracy, 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2003 

Mi-s. Barbara Hartle resiinio tho stand to give us a word of interpre- 
tation of the significance of these documents. 

TESTIMONY OF BARBARA HARTLE— Resumed 

Mr. Willis. Mrs. Hartle has already been sworn. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Hartle, in the recent past you have studied the 
documents, or at least the copies of the documents which Mr. "V^Hieeler 
has just identified in this record; is that correct? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly, at your own pace, in an abbreviated 
form, please, so that we do not consume an undue amount of time, give 
us a summary of the significance of these documents, and an interpre- 
tation of the meaning of these documents, based upon your back- 
ground and experience in the conspiracy ? 

Mrs. Hartle. After studying these documents it was pretty clear 
to me what had happened in the Communist Party here in California, 
because I had gone through a number of such events in the Communist 
Party in my long membersliip in it, and understood it quite easily. 

What happened was that a leader of a section came into some dis- 
agreement with the county and higher leadership). 

Instead of being able to express his disagreement, the county lead- 
ership or the State leadership, probably both in this case, decided 
that lie had to be eliminated, removed — that he wasn't tractable enough 
for the discipline of the party organization. 

The comrade in question, apparently, decided to rely on the consti- 
tution of the Commimist Party, which lormally, at least, gives certain 
hints that there is some democracy in the party, and relied on it, and 
found to his chagrin, no doubt, that he should never have tried to 
win his case that way. 

What happened was that he took the matter to his section and to 
his club, and he took the stand that if his club approved of him and 
if his section membership and committee approved of him, and elected 
him, and there was nothing seriously wrong with liim and he showed 
very well in the report, how well the section had done under his lead- 
ership — it had grown, engaged in a lot of activity, and while he didn't 
brag about it he did think they had clone very well — and the section 
thought so, too, because one document says it comes from the whole 
section, but that, of course, made no hay with tlie county or state 
leadership, apparently, because he says what kind of a situation is 
it when the state committee leaders go around making speeches that 
are really chaj-ges against him and dignify them with the term "state 
committee report," or "district committee report." 

He is pointing out how the technique works, when the top leader- 
ship wants to get rid of somebody under their thumb, or straighten 
them out, their statements and their reports and their activities are 
fully legal, and they are perfectly all right. 

But if a subordinate starts disagreeing, then he has to be very 
careful about what methods he tries to use to justify his disagreement, 
and everything will be jumped on. 

Of course, once the leadership has decided to oust the person, it 
doesn't make much difTerence what he does or says. 

In plain words, they will frame him, finally, and they will just oust 
him, which they did in this case, and apparently did with the section. 



2004 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

There is no iniierparty democracy. The Communist Party consti- 
tution and especially the basic work of Marxism and Leninism do not 
really brag about too much innerparty democracy themselves. 

Mr. Arens. What does the party mean when it speaks in party line 
lingo about democratic centralism? 

Mrs. Hartle. By democratic centralism they mean the higher com- 
mittee has the complete control over the lower bodies, the decisions of 
the higher bodies are binding on the lower bodies, even until the 
appeal is taken and during that time. 

That is just simply a centralistic setup. The interparty democracy 
part of it is a propaganda shield. 

Mr. Arens. I think that will suffice for the present, if you please, 
Mrs. Hartle. 

I should like to ask you if you will return the document, please. 

Mr. Chairman, the next witness, if you please, sir, will be Mr. 
Leibel Bergman. 

Please come forward. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

You do solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before 
this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Bergman. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF LEIBEL BERGMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

GEORGE R. ANDERSEN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Bergman. My name is Leibel Bergman. I live at 176 Highland 
Avenue, in San Francisco. 

I am a forger helper, and I resent very much being hauled before 
this committee in this circus in this manner. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by this committee? 

Mr. Bergman. I am ; yes, I am. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Bergman. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr, Andersen. George R. iVndersen. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Bergman, where and when were you born ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

]\Ir. Bergman. Well, I was born, all right, in Grand Forks, North 
Dakota, on May 5, 1915. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly give us a word about your formal education. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Bergman. I have been educated in American school sj^stems 
of Grand Forks, North Dakota, for 6 years of public school, 2 j-ears 
junior high school ; 4 years high school. 

I am a graduate of the University of North Dakota, majored in 
mathematics. 

Mr. Arens. And could you give us the approximate time when 
you completed your formal education, please, sir ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bergman. The year 1934. 



COMRIUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2005 

JMr. Arens. How long have you resided in the Greater San Fran- 
cisco area ? 

(Tho witness conferred with his connsel.) 

^Ir. Bkkgmax. Six or seven years ; somewhere along in there. 

Mr. Arexs, Can you tell us 3'our principal occupation in which you 
have been engaged during your residency in the Greater San Fran- 
cisco area? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

i\Ir. Bekgmax. I worked as a helped in a forge shop for almost all 
the time. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been engaged in any other outstanding ac- 
tivity during the course of your residency in the Greater San Fran- 
cisco area ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

I\rr. Bergmax. Well, I have been a husband and a father. I don't 
really understand your question. 

Mr. Arexs. Since you don't understand it, I will be more specific. 

I should like to lav before you now two documents, each of which 
has been identified under oath in this record. (Conniiittee Exhibit 
Xo. 28, see App., p. 2050.) 

Mr. AxDERSEN. Would you ask them to turn off the lower light. 

Mr. Willis. Is that all right ? 

Mr. AxDERSEX. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. The first document has been identified as a document 
Mhich is in the nature of a complaint to the National Committee of 
the Communist Party, in which the author is complaining about the 
expulsion procedures of a leader of the AFL Section of the conspiracy 
here in California, in which the author is complaining that the pro- 
cedures were completely without any degree of fairplay, in which the 
author is complaining that no one from the section was allowed to ob- 
serve the trial ; in which the author is comparing the procedures by 
which this section organizer was expelled to the worst type of proce- 
dures one could imagine in Fascist states and the like. 

I lay this first document before you and ask you now, sir, while 
you are under oath, if you will tell this committee whether or not you 
are the author of that document ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arex's. Mr. Chairman, so that we may not find ourselves con- 
fronted with a new delaying tactic, I respectfully suggest that the 
question be altered into this form, namely : 

Mr. Witness, does the document which has been displayed to you 
and which your counsel is now reading, which is an extensive document, 
appear to be a duplicate of the report made by you to the National 
Committee of the Comnmnist Party ? 

When you say that, I want the record to reflect that this committee 
will not tolerate a situation in which the time of the committee is ur- 
duly taken for the purpose of delay. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Willis. Did you get the question, sir ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bergmax. I don't understand that there is a question at this 
particular time. 

Mr. Arexs. I will ask it again. The question is : Does this docu- 
ment which I have displayed to you, and I have been watching my 



2006 coMiknjNiST party — northern California district 

watch, some 4 minutes ago, appear to be a true and correct reproduction 
of a report made by you to the National Committee of the Conmiunist 
Party? 

(The witness conferred with his counseh) 

Mr. Bergman. Well — what is your official title, by the way? 

Mr. Arens. You know it. The comrades all know it. It is Richard 
Arens, staff director of the Committee on Un-American Activities. 

Mr. Bergman. It seems to me that you have two alternatives when 
you hand me a document. You can either irive it to me ahead of time 
so that I can look it over and give you my opinions on it, or you can 
let me see it at a point where I can look it over and comment on it and 
my attorney can look it over. 

You have a choice of one or the other. You do not have the choice, 
it seems to me, of throwing something under my nose and asking for 
my opinions on it without a chance to read it. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully withdraw the question in 
its entirety and substitute another question. 

Did you, sir, make a report in December of 1959. file a written re- 
port, with the National Committee of the Communist Party? 

(The Avitness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. BKRfi:\rAN. Well, I would! ike to ask a question of you. 

Mr. Willis. You are not going to ask any questions. I will order 
you to answer the question. 

Mr. Bergman. I was asking how the question was relevant to the 
material of the investigation ? 

Mr. Willis. All right. 

Mr. Arens. I will be very glad to make another explanation. 

This Committee on Un-American Activities is under a mandate 
from the United States Congress to maintain a continuinjx surveillance 
over the administration and operation of our security laws. 

This Committee on Un-American Activities is constantly develop- 
ing factual information which the committee uses for the purpose of 
advising the Congress of the United States respecting the operation 
on American soil of this conspiratorial force, part of which mas- 
(pieraded behind the facade of the Communist Paiiy. 

This Committee on Un-American Activities has had an investigation 
going in the Greater San Francisco area for several months, in which 
we have, we believe, developed widespread ramifications of this can- 
cerous growth here. 

This Committee on Un-American Activities in the course of the in- 
vestigative processes has developed factual information to the effect 
that you did make a report to the National Convention of the Commu- 
nist Party, a significant report, a copy of which we have, a copy of 
which has been identified on this record. 

We have subpenaed you because we are hopeful — by direction and 
perhaps by indirection — we can, on this record, develop at least a tidbit 
of information to add to the other factual material which this commit- 
tee has, so that this committee, in the discharge of its duties, will have 
I hat information available to advise the United States Congress on 
the macliinations of the Communist conspiracy. 

If you, sir, will tell us truthfully, while you are under oath, whether 
or not you did make a report to the National Convention of the Com- 
munist Party, it will be my intention, as staff director of this com- 



COlVDiIUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2007 

mittco, to then ask 3'oii Avhotlior or not (he particular report ^vllicll I 
laid before you is a true and correct copy of (hat report. 

I then expect to pursue with you the whole area of inquiry respectinii; 
the facts upon which you did make your report to the National Con- 
vention of tlie Communist l^arty, respectin*^ any instructions which 
you may lia\e received, if you were in a( tendance at the National 
Convention of the Communist Party, all for the legislative purpose of 
accunndating factual material so that this conunittee can appraise 
the administration and operation of our existing security laws and 
advise the Congress of (lie United States on any amendments or addi- 
tional legislation which the facts seem to warrant. 

Now, with that explanation, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest 
the witness be ordered and directed to answer the question. 

]\rr. Willis. You are ordered and directed to answer the questio]i. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Berg3iax. "Well, after that remark, I am enlightened to the 
fact that the business of the committee is to collect tidbits of informa- 
tion. 

In answer — I understand that when you tell me to answer a ques- 
tion, I have got to answer it, so I am now declining to answer that 
question. 

I have a number of reasons for which I so decline. In the first 
instance, I decline because I don't recognize the competency of this 
committee, not only because of the brief which says that the commit- 
tee chairman, his actual presence in Congress, is a violation of the 
fourteenth amendment, but also because every member of the commit- 
tee, it seems to me, serves improperly. 

"VMien they were elected to Congress, they took an oath of office to 
uphold the Constitution of the United States. Instead, they subvert 
the Constitution of the United States, sneer at its amendments, and 
attempt to pillory people who face them. 

And for that reason, I say that the first amendment of the Consti- 
tution of the United States, which states very clearly that I and any 
citizen of the United States has a complete right to think as we please, 
to associate with whom we please, to have the freedom of speech, and 
those other rights which the first amendment allows, I, therefore, 
have to, and consider that the first amendment of the United States 
Constitution protects me in my refusal to answer this question from 
this committee at this time. 

(Disturbance in the hearing room.) 

jSIr. "Willis. The committee rejects the Aalidity of your plea, but 
if you stand on it, that is it. 

Proceed. 

Mr, Arens. Did you attend the National Convention of the Com- 
munist Party in New York City this last winter, in December of 
1959? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bergman. Before this proceeding goes very much further, 
instead of answering this second question, I have a continuing answer 
to the firet question. 

Mr. Arens. You are going to invoke the fifth amendment now; 
is that it? 



2008 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Bergman. I am going to give further reasons for my refusal 
to answer the question. 

Mr, Arens. Go right ahead. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bergman. Well, I have an additional reason in which I refuse 
to answer the question. 

One is the constitutional amendment, I believe, the sixth, that gives 
a person accused of anything the right to confront his witnesses. 

Since I have not had that opportunity, and I, apparently, from the 
past experience of this committee, am not about to get such oppor- 
tunity, I will have to respectfully decline to answer any other ques- 
tions, any question with respect to that. 

(Disturbance in the hearing room.) 

Mr. Willis. Wait a moment. 

Mr. Bergman. I am not through. 

Mr. Willis. I now instruct the officials in the audience to watch 
who appears to be the principal leaders of these outbursts and then, 
if it recurs, to eject them. We had it yesterday. We want to be fair 
to you young people. We like to have you here. You are welcome 
as our guests. But you simply cannot make a farce of the legislative 
branch of the Government that we represent. 

Mr. Arens. Have you completed your answer? 

Mr. Bergman. I wish to give an additional reason why I do not 
choose to answer this question. 

In fact, I have two other reasons. One is a simple one, that I do 
everything I can to merit the respect of my children and I don't think 
I could get that kind of respect by cooperating in any way with 
history, purposes, and many of the crimes committed by this 
committee. 

However, I now appeal to one other provision of the Constitution. 
Certainly the first amendment of the Constitution should be suffi- 
cient to protect anyone, since, by action of this committee and other 
bodies, the rights under the first amendment have been chopped away 
at, leaving for those who face this kind of activity only one recourse. 

I might say in passing that this was the same kind of recourse faced 
under medieval tortures, faced under inquisitions, where finally people 
won a right to refuse to testify against themselves, either by the rack, 
by torture, or by intimidation. 

I, therefore, state that I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
of the fifth amendment to the United States Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting the mockery — and 
I am reading from a report — 

. . . the mockery of an alleged trial of a comrade who was expelled from the 
Communist Party? 

Do you have information respecting the "farcical trial," and I am 
quoting from the report, "'that makes a mockery of every party prin- 
ciple"? 

Can you enlighten this Committee on Un-American Activities re- 
specting this teclinique, this pattern of activity of the Communist 
Party? 

Do so, please, sir, so that you can help your Government meet the 
threat of this conspiratorial force. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



COMjVIUNIST party — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2009 

IMr. BKRG:>rAX. "Well, I want to remind the invest i<T:ator, or director, 
whatever the title is, that I am here ao;ainst my will in order to answer 
certain questions. 1 am not hei'e as an exjjert witness to determine any 
questions that the prosecutor has in mind. I, therefore, can't see — 
also, I am well aware of the fact that anythinf^ I jnight say would be 
distorted and blown up and so on. Consequently, I don't see where 
the invest ioator gets oil' asking me any questions about my opinion. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

^Ir. Arens. Now, sir, do you know a person by the name of Vern 
Bown ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bergman. How does that question relate to this investigation? 

Mr. Akkns. Very simply, sir; that Vern Bown is the person who, ac- 
cording to your report, was expelled as one of the leaders of the Com- 
munist conspiratorial force Avithin the AFL-CIO, and in your report 
you deplore and complain to the National Committee respecting the 
unfair trial practices engaged in by the conspiracy in its expulsion of 
Bown, and you complain that no person from the section was even per- 
mitted to be present, and that he didn't have the right of counsel, as 
you have here today. He did not have information respecting the na- 
ture of the charges, and that no one of the section membership would 
be allowed to observe it. You complain as to the outrages of this con- 
spiratorial force in violating its own procedures for an expulsion. 

Therefore, we should like to ask you if you know Mr. Bown and, 
if so, if you can tell us further about him and about any Communist 
Party activities in which, to your certain knowledge, he was engaged, 
all for the legislative purpose of acquiring information which this 
committee can use in appraising the factual situation in which we find 
the internal security laws of this country being evaded, wholesale, by 
the conspiracy, being virtually ineffective at this very hour against the 
conspiracy that threatens freedom everywhere. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr, Arens. Mr. Chairman, with that explanation, I respectfully 
suggest that the record reflect an order and direction to the witness to 
answer tlie question. 

Mr. Willis. I order and direct you to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bergman. After that explanation, I still fail to see pertinency. 
I want to remind the committee that I am here against my will. I 
do not sympathize with this committee. 

Mr. Willis. You said that before. 

Mr. Bergman. And that, consequently, I am not prepared to tell 
this committee anybody's name who I may or may not know. 

One other word, and that is that the remarks made by you to say 
that this was said by me are 3'our remarks, not mine, and I do not go 
along with them, either by inference or anything of the sort, and I 
refuse to stand for the inference in your remarks. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, is the record clear that this witness has 
not invoked that part of the fifth amendment which gives him the 
privilege of not giving information which could be used against him- 
self in a criminal proceeding ? 



56597— 60— pt. 2- 



2010 COM]MUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Willis. He has not. He lias competent, very cautious counsel, 
and I am not ^oinff to sufjsrest any part ieular constitutional amend- 
ments that he should invoke in his own behalf, if he is entitled to them. 

He is entitled to constitutional protection, and, of course, we accord 
those rio^hts. Rut I am not going to remind him every time just for 
purposes of delay. 

]\ir. Arexs. I intend, Mr. Chairman, to proceed to another subject. 

Mr, "Willis. He will not be warned any more. 

Mr. Arexs. Did you in 1958 make a report respecting the AFL 
Section to the comrades ? 

Please answer that question whether or not vou made such a report 
in 1958. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bergman. Going back to the previous question, do I understand 
that the committee has directed me to answer that question more 
explicitly than I have stated ? 

Mr. Willis. No, I made no such request. 

Mr. Arens. The question is outstanding on this record, Mr. Chair- 
man, and the record is perfectly clear. 

Did you, in 1958, make a report to the comrades of the Communist 
Party respecting the AFL Section of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bergman. Going back to that other question, I noted the glee 
with which the investigator wants to slide from one question to 
another in the hope that I would overlook that I failed to avail myself 
of every constitutional safeguard I have. Consequently, with respect 
to that question and to this question, I state the following: 

The previous question and this one, under the first amendment of 
the Constitution, under the sixth amendment of the Constitution, 
under the fourteenth amendment of the Constitution, under the fifth 
amendment of the Constitution, and under the whole Constitution, 
I lefuse to answer either one of those questions. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chairman, for the purpose of testing the 
good faith of this witness in invoking that part of the fifth amend- 
ment which gives him the pri"\ilege of not siq^plying information 
which he considers could be used against him in a criminal proceed- 
ing, I now ask him this question — and it is solely for the purpose 
of testincr his good faith: 

Do you, sir, honestly apprehend that if you answer truthfully 
these questions which are being posed to you by this committee, you 
would be supplying information that might be used against you in 
a criminal ])roceoding? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bergman. Well, I am going to answer the question, although T 
don't think you have any right to inquire as to my good faith. My 
good fnilh stands alone. 

Let me state as follows with respect to that: My answer to the 
]irevious two questions stands as I have given thern. I have been 
accused here of all kinds of fancy crimes, of being a part of a con- 
spiracy. T have been called a comrade by this investigator, and I am 
certainly not his comrade in any sense of the word, and my answer 
to those previous questions stands, and my answer to this question 
stands. 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2011 

jMr. xVrens. INIr. Chainiiaii, I respectfully suggest this record re- 
flect an order by the chairman that the committee does not accept 
that response to the question, wliich was asked in good faith for the 
purpose of testing (ho good faith of this Avituess in invoking the 
hftli amendment, "and that the witness be ordered and directed to 
answer whether or not he truly and honestly believes that if he 
answered these outstanding questions of the committee truthfully 
while he is under oath, lie would be giving information that might 
be used against him in a criminal ])roceeding. 

I announce again for this record that the purpose of these questions 
is to test the good faith of the witness. The reason why we test the 
g-ood faith of the witness is that we have abundant evidence that 
persons who are Connnunists, who have been identified as Commu- 
nists, who operate in the Communist Party have no regard whatso- 
ever for the truth and are under instructions of the conspiracy to lie 
to congressional committees. 

With tliat explanation, sir, I respectfully suggest that the order go 
on this record as to why I am interrogating the witness in this vein. 

]\Ir. Willis. That is a perfectly proper question. Without arguing, 
I order you to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bergmax. Well, I think that last question is an attempt to 
intimidate me. I have given my answer to the questions, on the 
previous questions and on this question and the other questions. 

I have rights as a citizen of the TTnited States. These rights are 
guaranteed under the Constitution. I have been accused of all kinds 
of crimes by this committee. Certainly if I invoke the protection of 
the fifth amendment, it is only logical in view of the crimes this gentle- 
man is supposed— excuse me — this investigator is supposed to have 
accused me of. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed. 

Mr. Arexs. Are you now, this instant, a member of the conspira- 
torial force on American soil known as the Communist Party? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bergman. You have got me with a double-barrel question. 
Break it up and T will answer it in two parts. 

Mv. Arexs. I will be glad to accommodate you in that respect. 

Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. BERG:\rAX. I take the first, sixth, fourteenth, fifth amendments 
to the Constitution of the T'^nited States to that question. 

I do so in full awareness that these amendments of the Constitution 
were designed to protect exactly people like me facing people like you. 

Mr. Arexs. Now, Ave are going to take the other part of the question. 
You asked us to break it up. 

Are you now a member of that conspiratorial force known as the 
Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bergmax. That is still the double-barrel question. You will 
have to break it up again. 

JMr. Arexs. Mr. Chairman, T respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 



2012 COlVLMUlSriST party — northern CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Mr. Vern Bo\\ai. 

Kindly come forward. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your rio:lit hand. 

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
before this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and noth- 
ing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. BowN. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF VEENON SOWN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

VINCENT HALLINAN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself, sir, by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. BowN. My name is Vernon Bown. I live at 585 San Bruno 
Avenue, San Francisco. I am a warehouseman. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you by this committee ^ 

Mr. BowN. What? I did not understand the question. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by this committee ? 

Mr. Bown. I am. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Bown. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself on this record. 

Mr. Hallinan. My name is Vincent Hallinan. 

Mr. Bown. I might add that I am only partially represented by 
counsel because of the fact that counsel in these cases is denied the 
right to have anything to say and properly defend his client. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed. 

Mr. Bown. I would suggest that in view of the constitutional 
provisions- 



Mr. Arens. Do you have a recollection, sir, of a proceeding- 



Mr. Bow^N. I would suggest that the Constitution provides that 
anybody is supposed to be provided with counsel, proper counsel, I 
might say, and that includes the right of the comisel to speak up in 
behalf of his client. 

This committee does not and has never done this. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have recollection of a proceeding in which you 
were involved, in which you were denied counsel in toto % 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bown. Yes, sir; right here. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have recollection of another proceeding in 
which counsel wasn't even permitted in the room in which you were 
involved? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. BowN. I am afraid I don't understand your question, nor do 
I see the significance of it. 

Mr. Arens. I will be glad to exphiin the significance of it. 

There has been identified on tliis record, a report to the National 
Committee of the Communist Party, made by a comrade, in which, 
in that report, the comrade is complaining about the expulsion of 
another comrade. 



COMIMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2013 

That second conirnde, who was expelled, according: to the report, 
was denied the privileire of counsel; he was denied the opportunity 
to know the nature of his charges; he was denied the opportunity 
to oiler proof of his alleged innocence. He was denied even the com- 
pany of fellow comrades. He was denied any semblance of f airplay, 
and this one comrade is complaining to the National Convention of 
the Connnunist Party about this particular proceeding. 

Since you apparently can't quite understand the pertinency of this 
line of inquiry, I will say to you that this committee is trying to 
develop information respecting the techniques, mode of operations, 
of this conspiratorial force which masquerades i3ehind a facade of do- 
goodism, humanitarianism, which is sweeping the world, w^hich has 
destroyed more lives on this planet than any other force since the 
dawn of time. 

Now, sir, this committee expects to take back to Washington with 
it, by direction or indirection, considerable information which will be 
of value in the duty which this committee has to evolve legislation to 
attempt to cope witli this conspiratorial force on American soil. 

Witli that explanation, sir, I now ask you to respond to the principal 
question. 

Mr. Bowx. After that long speech, I have forgotten what the 
question was. 

Mr. Arexs. I will be glad to repeat it to you. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. BoW'X. Mr. Chairman, after that long speech of yours, long- 
winded speech, I am of the opinion that you are beginning to sound 
a little bit like you ought to see a psychiatrist. 

Maj^be you sound halfway like a nut. I thought the witch hunts 
went out with Senator McCarthy, but it seems that this committee 

iNIr. "Willis. Witness, I order you to answer the question. 

^Ir. Bowx. But it seems that this committee is still interested in 
carrying out witch hunts. 

In spite of the opinion in the community against them, and as far 
as the purposes of this committee are concerned, I certainly don't 
agree with the explanation you gave. My opinion of the purpose of 
this committee is somewhat different. 

Mr. Arexs. Now, sir, would you kindly respond to the last outstand- 
ing principal question, to which you have been ordered to respond 
by the chairman of this committee on this record and pursuant to 
which you have been in consultation with your counsel before this 
committee in this public session? 

^Ir. Bow^x. You mean j^ou are inferring that I have no right to 
ask my counsel? 

Mr. Arexs. Is the record clear, Mr. Chairman, that the witness 
has been ordered and directed to answer that question? 

Mr. Willis. It is very clear. 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Witness, we will proceed to another subject matter. 

Now, sir, kindly tell us how long you have been employed at your 
present place of employment. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bowx. Mr. Chairman, why do you continue to interrupt me 
when I am trying to give a statement, and what right 

Mr. Arexs. ]\Ir. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now 
be ordered and directed to answer this last outstanding question, 



2014 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

namely: Plow long he has been employed at his present place of 
employment. 

Mr. Bowx. Mr. Chairman, I say to you now that I am not going to 
be intimidated by you, this committee, or anybody else. I am not 
in the habit of being intimidated and I don't expect to start now. 

JNIr. Willis. Proceed with the next question. 

Mr. BowN. What was your question ? 

Mr. Arens. The next question, if you please, Mr. Chairman, is this : 
Are you now, this instant, a member of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. BowN. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully submit that the purposes 
of this committee are to intimidate witnesses, to try to smear them 
with the Communist or any other, you know, some derogatory termi- 
nology. You attempt to get people fired from their jobs, like you did 
with me when you came over on the job or had somebody come over 
there and serve a subpena on me in front of my fellow workers. 

These are the purposes of this committee, to persecute people. They 
are not to gather information, except as such that that information 
will help them to get publicity and, of course, I suppose to justify the 
enormous appropriation they were able to get from Congress this year. 

I object or I challenge the moral right of this committee to ask me 
any questions concerning my beliefs, my activities, or what I do. On 
the advice of my attorney 

Mr. Arens. You are now reading from a prepared paper; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. BowN. Will you please let me read ? 

Mr. Arens. You are now reading from a prepared statement ; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. BowN. I am going to give you my reasons for refusing to an- 
swer the question. 

Mr. Arens. You are reading from a prepared statement? 

Mr. BowN. I am giving you my reasons. Wliethor I give them from 
a prepared statement or not, is none of your business. 

On the advice of my attorney, I refuse to answer that question for 
the following reasons : 

It is not within the scope or the scope of the purposes for which this 
committee was formed. 

Number two : The committee has no right to inquire into my per- 
sonal, private beliefs or associations. 

The question violates my rights under the Constitution of the United 
States and particularly the first and fifth amendments thereto. 

For those reasons I refuse to answer your question. 

Mr. Arens. Were you, in 1959, the organizer of the AFL Section of 
the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. BowN. Evidently this is another question similar to the last, 
and for the same pur]-)ose, to intimidate me and to try to get me to 
answer something about which you can bring some stool pigeon up 
here and have them say that lama liar. 

Mr. Chairman, are these questions 

Mr. Arens. Does that conclude 

Mr. BowN. Are these questions actually designed for the purpose 
of legislation ? 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2015 

Mr. Willis. I order you to answer that question. It is a simple 
question. 

Mr. l^owx. ^h\ Cluiinnan, will you please stop interrupting me? 
1 have as nuich right to be heard as you do. 

Now, you seem to think that people are your slaves, or that they 
have to do everything that you tell them to do. You are my superior, 
YOU seem to think. I don't recognize superiors. I only recognize 
bosses, and you are not my boss, li' 1 want to make a statement here, 
1 will make it. 

Mr. Willis. I order }' ou to answer the question. 

Mr. Bowx. I will answer the question, wlien I get ready, but first, 
I want to say that this committee is here for the purpose of 

Mr. "\A'illis. Proceed with the next question, Mr. Arens. 



Mr. Akens. The next question, if you please, Mr. Chairman 

JNIr. Bowx. I have not refused to answer that question. 

Mr. "Willis. You answer it or we will proceed. 

Mr. Bow^x. I will answer it in my own good time. I think I have 
a right to make a statement here. I have a right to say what the 
purpose of these questions are, or to question the purpose of these 
questions, and I don't think you have any right to interrupt me when 
I am doing so, and say I have to answer when you want me to answer. 

I will answer when I get ready to answer. You sound like a mad- 
man. You sound like you have the right to order people around. You 
people are elected by the people of this country. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed witli the next question. 

Mr. Bowx. You people are elected by the people of this country, 
except Mr. Willis, of course, who was elected by a small minority of 
the registered voters in his district. And he has the temerity and 
audacity to come to this northern part of the country and try to tell 
people who really have the vote what to do. 

lie wasn't elected by the people. Pie was elected by about 8,000 
out of a constituency of 300,000. 

Mr. Willis. I will ask the officials to withdraw the witness within 
15 seconds if this continues. 

jNIr. Bowx. On the advice of my attorney, I refuse to answer that 
question for the following reasons : the same reasons as I gave before. 

Mr. Arexs. Are you presently 

Mr. Bowx. Will you please let me answer, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arexs. I beg your pardon. 

Mr. Bowx. It is not within the scope of the purpose for which this 
committee was formed. The committee has no right to inquire into 
my personal, private beliefs or associations. 

The question violates my rights under the Constitution of the 
United States and particularly under the first and fifteenth amend- 
ments thereto. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you have any present information respecting 

( Disturbance in the hearing room. ) . 

Mr. Bowx. Wliy is she being put out, Mr. Chairman? Are only 
the spectators allowed here that you w^ant in here ? 

(Disturl^ance in the hearing room.) 

Mr. Bowx. This is part of this whole vicious witch hunt. They 
don't want people here who oppose them. 

In spite of the fact that there has been a tremendous amount of 
opposition to this committee expressed in this community, these people 



2016 COIVOIUNIST PARTY — ^NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

still insist on coming in here and carrying on a witch hunt. Now, 
they are throwing out people who want to listen to this. 

Mr. Willis. Have you completed your answer ? 

Mr. BowN. Proceed, Mr. McCarthy. 

IMr. Willis. Was that your last question, Mr. Arens ? 

Mr. Arens. I was interrupted in trying to pose a question. I will 
rephrase it, if you please. 

Sir, do you have present information respecting the operations in 
1959 of the AFL Section of the Communist Party of California? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. BowN. That question, of course, is related to all the others. It 
has the same purpose, evidently. 

This is another part of the attempt to smear a workingman and to 
deny them the right to make good wages, to get better conclit ions in 
their shops. It is an attempt to intimidate people, to intimidate 
workers and people who might help to try to lead workers into getting 
better conditions. 

This is part of the conspiracy of this committee, not to uphold the 
Constitution, but to subvert our Constitution. You have practically 
destroyed the first amendment to the Constitution already by denying 
people the right to refuse answers on the grounds that 3'ou have no 
right whatever to inquire into their associations or beliefs and so forth. 

Mr. Arens. Does that complete your answer ? 

Mr. BowN. That does not complete my answer; as much as you 
would like it to, wouldn't you? That is just more evidence that your 
purpose here is not to gather information, but to try to catch some- 
body in some legal terminology or some legal mistake on wliich you 
can then indict them for contempt of Congress. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Avould you Ivindly complete your answer? 

Mr. BowN. I will. Would you like me to read this again, or do you 
want to accept my former statement; the fact that I read this before? 

Mr. Arens. If you want to say "for the same reasons which I gave 
in refusing to answer the last question," that is acceptable on this 
record. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. BowN. I would prefer to read it, because then I won't make 
any mistakes on Avhich you can hang some legal technicality. 

On the advice of my attorney, I refuse to answer that question for 
the following reasons : It is not wdthin the scope of the purpose for 
which this committee was formed. 

Number two : The committee has no right to inquire into my per- 
sonal, private beliefs or associations. 

Number three : The question violates my rights under the Constitu- 
tion of tlie United States, and particularly under the first and lifth 
amendments thereto. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con- 
clude the statr interrogation of this witness. 

If it meets with the approval of the committee, I respectfully sug- 
gest that we take about a o-minute recess so that we may get our tiles 
organized to proceed in a few minutes. 

Mr. Willis. The committee will take an informal recess for 5 min- 
utes and the witness is excused. 

(A short recess was taken.) 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2017 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis and 
Joluinsen.) 

Mr. "Willis. The subcommittee will be in order. 

May I say tliat we very sincerely, more than you believe, appreciate 
the cooperation of the audience. It is a diflicult hearin<>-. 1 suppose 
by now all of you must understand that this is really not a pleasant 
job, but we do sincerely appreciate the cooperation. 

"We want people to be in here as our guests. I do hope that order 
will continue to bo maintained. 

Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will 
be Mr. Joseph Figueiredo. 

Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman 
administers an oath. 

Mr. "Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
before this subconnnittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Figueiredo. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH FIGUEIREDO, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

GEORGE R. ANDERSEN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Figueiredo. My name is Joseph Figueiredo. I live at 1250 
Girard Street. 

Mr. Arens. And your occupation, please ? 

Mr. Figueiredo. What is relevant about that ? You know where I 
work. You sent the sub])ena to where I work. 

Mr. Arens. Personally, I don't. I think it would be nice to have 
it in the record. 

Mr. Figueiredo. If you don't, how did you arrange to have the 
marshal go to the job where I work and have the subpena issued? 
How did 3^ou know that if you don't know where I work ? 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by this committee? 

Mr. Figueiredo. What is the purpose of the question in where I 
work? What is your motive? 

Mr. Arens. I will withdraw that question. 

You are appearing today in response to a subpena which was served 
u]wn you by this committee? 

]\Ir. Figueiredo. I am. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Figueiredo. I believe very inadequately. I believe the com- 
mittee has abused and fundamentally violates the Constitution even in 
this door, by the fact that it denies the actual due process of law^ in 
limiting the participation of counsel here in the defense and partici- 
pation of a witness. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, would you kindly identify 3'ourself? 

Mr. Andersen. George R. Andersen. 

Mr. Willis. Let me say not to the witness, but as a plain matter of 
procedure, this, of course, is not a court proceeding. It is a congres- 



2018 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

sional committee engaged in work, and no committee of Congress goes 
beyond tliis one, namely, to have the person testifying given the benefit 
of counsel by his side to assist liim as we iro along, not to advise with 
the idea of stalling. Of course, we will not stand for that. There 
must be a point of reasonableness. But on sensitive questions, wit- 
nesses have the benefit of counsel. 

There are 19 committees of the House, and as many or more com- 
mittees in the Senate. In our work in the Congress, that is the extent 
of counsel's participation. No committee could ever have legislation 
performed or duties discharged by having an adversary proceeding 
more than what is afforded here. 

Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

I said that merely for the record. 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born, please, sir ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. FiGUEiREDO. I was born September 7, 1910, in the honorable 
Commonwealth of Massachusetts, which had the honor to be the first 
State which got rid of witch hunts, and I am glad to be able and proud 
to participate in the modern effort to eliminate witch hunting in our 
country. 

Mr. Arens. Did you participate in elimination or attempted elimi- 
nation of witch hunting in Massachusetts? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. FiGTJEiREDO. I am against witch hunts no matter where it takes 
place, and w^herever you go or any other witch hunt committee goes 
I will be opposed to the witch hunts. 

Mr. Arens. Now, please answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. FiGUEiREDO. Wliat is the purpose and the relevancy of that 
question ? 

Mr. Arens. You opened the line of inquiry. 

Mr. Chairman, this record reflects tliat this man here has opened 
the door on this line of inquiry by volunteering his opposition to what 
he has characterized as witch hunts. 

I then asked him if he had taken an active pnrt in eliminating, or 
attempting to eliminate, what lie regarded as witch hunts in the State 
of Massachusetts. 

I, therefore, now, Mr. Chairman, insist upon an answer to this ques- 
tion, I respectfully request that the Chair order and direct this wit- 
ness to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Wn.Lis. Mr. Arens, you are perfectly correct that he has opened 
the door and this could be pursued. But go to the next question and 
connect it. 

Mr. Arens. I will be very glad to do so, sir. 

I lay before you now a thermofax reproduction of the Communist 
Daily Worker of New York. Friday, December 3, 1954. I should like 
to read it to you in toto and then expect to show it to you. It is en- 
titled Figuereido Nails Lies by Witch Hunters" : 

New Bedford, Mass., December 2. — Underhanded tactics by the State Com- 
mission InvestiKatinj; Subversive Activities wore cxi>osed here last week in a let- 
ter which appeared in the New Bedford Standard Times. The letter was from 
Joseph FiRuoiredo. one time secretary of the Ccmimunist Party of Bristol County, 
and now living in California. It seems that the State Commission was spread- 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2019 

ing the word around in New Bedford that Joe Figueiredo was "cooperating" with 
the Coiumission and was liuu;orini; militant workers. 

The letter fri)ui Fit^ueiredo sharply denied this allegation. 

And in the letter, Figueiredo is vigorously denying that he is cooperat- 
ing in lingering any Communists. 

Kindly look at that dociunent and see if that might refresh your 
recollection with respect to your activity in regard to the investigations 
by the Massachusetts Commission which was investigating Commu- 
nists in 1954. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. FiGUEiKEDO. What is tlio pertinency of this question? 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, in view of the status of the record, it is 
not necessary to make an explanation of pertinency. This witness 
initiated this line of inquiry by telling of his adamant opposition to 
witch hunts. 

I thereupon produced, and have laid before him, what I have char- 
acterized and described as a thermofax reproduction of an article in 
the Daily Worker respecting his activity in what he has in that doc- 
ument characterized as a witch hunt. 

I, therefore, i\Ir. Chairman, respectfully request that this witness 
now be ordered and directed to answer the question which is outstand- 
ing, namely : 

Is that a true and correct reproduction of your letter in which you 
are condemning what you characterize as a witch hunt in Massachu- 
setts and setting the record straight that you are not fingering any 
Commimists ? 

Mr. Willis. It is very plain. You are ordered and directed to 
answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Figueiredo. Since the connnittee states that it is not in witch 
hunts, then I can't see the purpose of this matter. 

Further, I believe that this is a violation of the first amendment to 
the Constitution, to inquiring into my beliefs and associations, and, 
further, on the grovmds of the fifth amendment that attempts to com- 
pel me to bear witness against myself. 

(Document marked "Figueiredo Exhibit No. 1" and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Willis. Proceed. 

Mr. Arens. I don't believe, sir, the record reflects your age. I 
would like to ask you approximately how old you are? 

Mr. Figueiredo. I believe in the opening remarks I mentioned that 
I was born September 7, 1910, in Boston, Massachusetts. 

Mr, Arens. Thank you, sir. 

Were you, as a young man, an organizer for the Young Comnmnist 
League in Massachusetts? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Figueiredo. Mr. Chairman, again I stand on the grounds of 
the first amendment. The committee is violating the first amendment 
pertaining to my beliefs and association, and on the fifth amendment 
of being compelled to testify against myself. 

Mr. Arens. Sir, we display to you a photostatic reproduction of 
the Communist Daily Worker of August 18, 1982, respecting the 
activities of a Communist candidate for some public office in Massa- 
chusetts. 



2020 COIMMUNIST PARTY — ^NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

In the course of the article, the following appears: "Joe Figeiirado, 
Young Communist League organizer." 

Kindly look at this document which is now being displayed to you 
and tell this committee while you are under oath whether or not that 
identification in that Communist publication of yourself as an organ- 
izer for the Young Communist League in 1932 is true and correct? 

(The witness conferred with his counseL) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, while he is examining the document, I 
respectfully request the Chair issue an order that these documents be 
appropriately marked and incorporated by reference in this record. 

Mr. Willis. Let them be so marked and incorporated into the 
record. 

Mr. Arexs. AYould you kindly answer the question now. 

Mr. FiGTTEiREDO. Mr, Chairman, I am compelled on the same grounds 
as in answering the previous question, the grounds of the first amend- 
ment with reference to my beliefs and associations. Secondly, on 
the grounds of the fifth amendment, the compulsion to be a witness 
against myself. 

(Document marked "Figueiredo Exhibit No. 2" and retained in 
committee files.) 

a\Ir. Arexs. Now, sir, in 1937, were you a section organizer for the 
Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. FiGi^EiREDO. Same answer, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arexs. We display to you now, if you please, a photostatic 
reproduction of a Communist Part}- publication entitled "'Party Or- 
ganizer," August 1937, in which articles appear "On Party Building," 
including "A Section Organizer Reports By J. Figueredo." 

Kindly look at that document, which will now be displayed to you, 
and tell this committee while you are under oath if that is a true 
and correct reproduction of an article appearing with your byline 
in the Party Organizer. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Figueiredo. INIr. Chairman and members of the committee, the 
same answer to this question as to the previous question. 

(Document marked "Figueiredo Exhibit No. 3" and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Willis. Proceed. 

Mr, Arexs. Now, sir, when did you leave the ^lassachusetts area 
to come to these parts ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Willis. I order and direct you to answer that question. 

Mr. FiGUREiREDO. Somewlicre around 1951-52. 

Mr. Arexs. Were you in 1949, prior to leaving the State of Massa- 
chusetts, an uudergi-ound colonizer for the Communist Party? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr, Figueiredo, The same answer as to the previous questions. 

Mr, Arexs. Do you know a man by the name of Herbert Philbrick, 
or have you ever known a man by the name of Herbert Philbrick? 

(The witness confei'red with his counsel.) 

Mr, Figueiredo. The same answer as to the previous question. 



COMlVrUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2021 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Philbrick testified before tliis committee. He, of 
course, was an uiulercovor agent of the FBI serving- in the conspiracy. 
In the Smith Act trials, he made his identification known and testi- 
fied against the traitors there. He subsequently testified before our 
connnittee. 

In tlie course of his testimony he swore that, while he was serving 
in the conspiracy at the behest of his Government, he knew you as 
one of the organizers, or in charge of colonizing, in certain sections 
in IMassachusetts on belialf of the Communist Party. That is a pretty 
serious bit of information. 

V\'e would like to give you now, wliile you are under oatli, an 
opportunity to deny the validity and truth of that assertion. 

I)o you care to avail yourself of that opportunity while you are 
under oath ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. FiGUEiREDO. Mr. Chairman, I understand I was called here to 
answer questions and not about what otlier people had to say. 

^Ir. Arexs. Was the information wliich Mr. Philbrick gave to this 
committee, to your certain knowledge, sir, true and correct? That is, 
the information respecting yourself I 

(Tlie witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. FiGUEiREDO. Let's see the transcript of vvhat he said. 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now 
be ordered and directed to answer the question. 

]\Ir. "Willis. I order and direct you to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. FiGUEiREDO. Mr. Chairman, I just don't see tlie point in the 
committee asking me to comment on what other people have to say ; 
I am definitely of the belief that this is, again, a violation of the first 
amendment, in that it attempts to inquire and penetrate into my beliefs 
and associations; and, furthermore, under the fifth amendment, it 
is an attempt to compel me to testify against myself. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. xVrexs. Do you recall where you were in December of 1959 ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. FiGUEiREDO. ]\Iaybe if you can ask a specific question^ — — 

Mr. Arexs. I will be a little more specific, yes, to try to be helpful 
to you. 

Were you in New York City in December of 1959, do you recall ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. FiGUEiREDO. I don't believe it is the prerogative of this commit- 
tee to inquire where I was, where I am, or where I am going to be. 

Mr. Arexs. I will ask the next question. The next question is — 
I will hold that just a moment. I will withdraw that, please. 

Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now be ordered 
and directed to answer the question as to whether or not in December 
of 1959 he was in New York City. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Willis. I direct you to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. FiGUEiREDO. The same answer as to the previous questions. 

Mr. Arexs. I put it to you as a fact, sir, and ask you to affirm or 
denj' the fact, that in December of 1959 you were a delegate from 



2022 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

the Communist Party of Northern Ciilifornia to the Seventeenth 
National Convention of the CPUS A. 

Mr. FiGUEiREDo. Is tliat your statement or was it a question? 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be 
ordered and directed to answer that quest ion. 

Mr. Willis. He might have misunderstood. 

Mr. Arexs. "Were 3'Ou in December 1059 a delegate from the Com- 
munist Party of Northern California to the Ittli Natioiuil Conven- 
tion of the CPUSA in New York City ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. FiGUEiREDo. The same answer to the previous questions, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been testifying up in Sacramento on behalf 
of certain groups and organizations on legislative matters? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Willis. I now order you to answer tlie question. 

Mr. Andersen. We are not througli conferring yet. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. FiGUEiREDO. Will you repeat the question ? 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest the witness now be ordered and 
directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Willis. You are ordered to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with liis counsel.) 

Mr. FiGtTEiREDO. I have forgotten the question. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed with the next question. 

Mr. Arens. When you were lobbying in Sacramento, testifying 
before legislative committees there, did you make it clear that you 
were then a member of that conspiratorial force known as the Com- 
munist Party or did you hide tliat from the elected representatives of 
the people of this state who were considering legislation which you 
had an interest in ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Figueiredo. It seems that that question is not only twofold, 
but triple. 

]Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now 
be ordered and directed to answer that (luestion. 

Mr. Willis. I dii-ect you to ansAver the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Let the record sliow that he is now, for the second time, 
in consultation with his counsel in response to a question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Figueiredo. I don't understand the question. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed to the next quest ion. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now, sir, this instant, a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Figueiredo. Let me answer the question that I don't under- 
stand it, and tliat I avail myself of the first amendmont, in reference 
to my beliefs and associations, and to the fifth amendment, if this 
attempts to compel me to give testimony against myself. This applies 
also to the two previous questions. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now, this instant, a member of the Communist 
Party? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Figueiredo. The same answer. 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2023 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arexs. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Mr. Archie Brown. 

Mr. Andersen. May I address the Chair with respect to Mr. Brown 'i 

Mr. Willis. Are you his counsel ? 

Mr. Andersen. Yes. 

Mr. Willis. AVith reference to his presence or absence ? 

Mr. Andersen. If you recall, he was ejected from the meeting yes- 
terday morning and he was ordered to return at, I think, 1 :30 yester- 
day afternoon. lie was subpenaed to be here on that day. He 
returned yesterday afternoon at 1 :30, pursuant to the order of the 
chairman and the subpena, and he was not called yesterday afternoon 
as a witness, and there is a serious question as to whether his subpena is 
functus oflicio. 

Tie is not here at the moment, however; in other words, you ordered 
him to be here yesterday and he appeared. Having called him, I 
assume that he assumes that vou did not choose to call him, and that 
the subpena is now dead. You had ample opportunity yesterday to 
advise him to return and you, of course, didn't do it. 

Mr. Willis. I believe it is a continuing subpena. 

Mr. Arens. Of course, Counsel, the subpenas require, as you know, 
that the witnesses are not to depart from tlie presence of the commit- 
tee without leave of the committee. That is on the face of the subpena. 

May I now inquire of you : Do you know wliether or not your client, 
Mr. Archie Brown, is available at this time to testify ? 

Mr. Andersen. He not oidy departed with the consent of the com- 
mittee, he was forcibly ejected by the committee, which I assume is 
with the consent of the committee. 

Mr. Arsens. Do you know whether or not your client, Mr. Brown, is 
available now to testify at this time before this committee? 

Mr. Andersen. I don't believe he was allowed in this morning, 
either. Mr. Wheeler advised me earlier this morning that he only 
permitted people to come into this room whom he wished to come in. 

Mr. Arens. If you want to proceed on a professional basis, tell us 
whether or not he is available. 

Mr. Andersen. I assume he is home. He had an accident, as you 
probably know. I assume he is home. You served him originally at 
his doctors' office. He had an accident and he is not a well man. I 
assume he is home. 

Mr. Arens. We noticed yesterday he seemed to be mider no physical 
impediment in his g-yrations here. 

Mr. Andersen. Yes ; at the hands of three or four policemen he was ; 
I agree with that. 

Mr. Willis. Let me ask you this question, and certainly we are 
going to operate properly, I assure you. 

You say he is not here physically today ? 

Mr. Andersen. I don't believe he is. He was here earlier this 
morning. I talked to him earlier this morning. I saw him out in the 
hall earlier this morning, and I told him I didn't believe the committee 
wanted him to return because they hadn't called him yesterday or 
directed him to return. 



2024 COMiVIlINIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Arens. Will you make it clear to him, Counsel, that we do 
want him to return, we do want to interrogate him under oath? Will 
you do that for us, please ? 

Mr. Andersen. I will be very happy to do that. 

Mr. Willis. Can you fix a reasonable schedule, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Arens. Some time this afternoon. 

Mr. Willis. Well, of course, we can't fix any closer time than that. 
We plan, and we will see if it fits the schedule, we plan to adjourn 
shortl}^, at 12 :00, I suppose, and to return here about 1 :15. We 
probably will be in session rather late today. 

Mr. Arens. Late this afternoon would be all right, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Willis. Can you see to it that he is here, let's say, at 2 o'clock, 
if that will accommodate him ? 

Are we gomg to hear another witness first ? 

Mr. Arens. We will hear a witness who will testify extensively, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr. Willis. Can he be here at 2 o'clock and for the balance of the 
session today ? 

Mr. Andersen. You don't give me much time. I am here repre- 
senting several other witnesses so, of course, I may not leave the 
room. 

Mr. Willis. Well, you have until 2 o'clock, 2 hours. 

Mr. Andersen. I may represent the next witness that is called. 
I don't know. 

Mr. Willis. We will have the luncheon recess. That will give you 
an hour. 

Mr. Andersen. I suggest you make it 2 o'clock. 

]Mr. Willis. No ; we can't have that. 

Mr. Andersen. I will do my best to communicate with him. 

Mr. Willis. You understand that this accommodation of ideas 
or trying to reach agreement is without prejudice to the validity 
of the subpena as a continuing one. 

]\Ir. Andersen. I understand we are at complete arms' length. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Mr. Noel Harris. 

Kindly come forward and remain standing while the chairman 
administers an oath. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Harris. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF NOEL HAKRIS, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

ALBERT M. BENDICH 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself, sir, by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Harris. My name is Noel Harris. I live at 3327 Pine Street, 
Eureka. I fail to see where my occupation is any concern of this 
committee. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly answer what is your occupation. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Harris. Woodworker. 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2025 

Mr. Arexs. Do you have any other occupation ? 

(The ^vitness conferred with his counsel.) 

;Mr. Harris. None. None other. 

j\Ir. Arens. You are appearino; today in response to a subpena wliich 
was served upon you by this committee? 

]Mr. Harris. Yes. j\Iy subpena was served on the job where I work. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by comisel ? 

Mr. Harris. Yes. 

Mr. Arexs. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Bexdicii. Albert M. Bendich, staff counsel, American Civil 
Liberties Union of Northern California. 

Mr. WiiJ.is. I think it would be more convenient for all, including 
counsel, if you will put the microphone next to you, Mr. Witness. 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Harris. I was born at Fort Bragg, Calif., December 6, 1918. 

Mr. Arens. And kindly give us a word about your formal education. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Harris. I have gone through public schools, elementary school, 
high school and college in the State of California. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly repeat what you just said? I am 
afraid it isn't clear. 

Mr. Harris. I said I attended elementary school, high school and 
college in the State of California. 

Mr. Arenas. And did you receive a college degree ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Harris. Yes; I received an AB in social science, majoring in 
history, during the course of which I learned a little bit about in- 
quisitions and their use of stool pigeons and perjurers and other 
methods. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us, please, sir, when did you receive your degree ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Harris. 1949. 

Mr. Arens. Did that complete your formal education ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

]\Ir. Harris. I had 1 additional year in college. 

ISIr. Arex'^s. And did you receive a degree as a result of that addi- 
tional year ? 

]Mr. Harris. No, sir. 

Mr. Arex'S. a master's degree ? 

Mr. Harris. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you received any specialized training since you 
completed your formal education ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Harris. I would like to have the question clarified. To me it is 
ambiguous. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have in mind any specialized training which 
you have received since you completed your formal education? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Harris. Do you mean in a formal educational sense? 

Mr. Akens. No; not necessarily. Any specialized training you 
have received since you completed your fonnal education. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

56597 — 60 — pt. 2 3 



2026 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Harris. None to my mind at the moment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you received any special training by any organi- 
zation after you completed your formal education ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr, Harris. I don't quite understand tlie question. 

Mr. Arens. I will drop the line of inquiry. 

Wliat has been your principal occupation since you completed your 
formal education ? 

Mr. Harris. Woodworker. 

Mr. Arens. Have you received any training in organizing tech- 
niques by any organization ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Harris. AVould you please clarify the question ? 

Mr. Arens. Are you now the organizer for the Communist Party of 
Humboldt County, California? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Harris. On the basis of the first amendment, the fourth amend- 
ment, and the fifth amendment of the Bill of Eights of (he U.S. Con- 
stitution, I respectfully decline to answer that (question. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend, sir, that if you told this 
committee truthfully, while you are under oath, whether or not you 
are presently the organizer in charge of organizing for the Communist 
Party of Humboldt County, California, you would be supplying infor- 
mation that might be used ao-^insi; you in a criminal proceeding:? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Harris. I would like to stand on the same grounds that I have 
previously given. 

Mr. Arens. You said they taught you at school what a stool pigeon 
was, they taught you what witch hunts were and the like. Did they 
also teach you about colonizing ? Do you know what a colonizer is ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Harris. I refuse on the same grounds previously given. 

Mr. Arens. Have you in the recent past been in charge of c«rtain 
activities of the Communist conspiracy, which the party characterizes 
within party ranks as colonization? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Harris. I respectfully decline on the grounds previously given. 

Mr. "Willis. Would you in a few sentences explain what colonizing 
is? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. Colonizing, Mr. Cliairman, is a technique used 
by tlie conspiracy in wliich they take persons who often are highly 
educated, persons who have an appearance that will get them into any 
strata of society, and tliey have them develop within certain groups 
or organizations, cells of the conspiracy. 

Frequently these people obliterate their own identification, their 
own background. Frequently they will take menial jobs. It is one of 
the present techniques of the conspiracy. 

Sir, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny the fact, 
that you are presently the organizer of the Communist Party of 
Humboldt County, California. 

Mr. Willis. I think you have asked him that question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



COJklMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2027 

Mr. ^Vrens. I asked it oP liiiii, bu( the record does not. reflect that we 
have the answer to the present question, Mr. Chairman. 

(The witness conferred with liis counsel.) 

Mr. Harris. 1 respectfully decline on tlie irrounds previously given. 

Mr. Arexs. I respectfully suggest, ^Fr. Chairman, that will con- 
clude the staff interrogat ion of ( his witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. i\jiENS. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Mrs. Ann Deirup. 

Kindly come forward and remain standing while the chairman ad- 
ministers an oath. 

Mr. Edises. Mr. Chairman, the witness is unwilling 

Mr. Willis. Come forward, please. 

Mr. Edises. The witness is unwilling to sit in the view of these 
glaring lights, and we ask that the lightsbe turned off. 

Mr. Willis. We will accommodate you. 

Mr. Edises. Please do so. 

Mr. Willis. I suppose you mean to imply that it interferes with 
her composure, and so on, as the real reason for it. 

Mr. Edises. Yes; that is true. She has an eye difficulty, also, and 
it is also discomposing. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mrs. Deirup. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ANN DEIRUP, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

BERTRAM EDISES 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself, ma'am, by name, residence, 
and occupation. 

Mrs. Deirup. My name is Ann Deirup. I live at 1629 Josephine 
Street, Berkeley, Calif orni a. I am a draftsman. 

Mr. Willis. A draftsman, did you say ? 

Mrs. Deirup. A draftsman. 

Mr. Arens. Is it Miss or Mrs. ? 

Mrs. Deirup. It is Mrs. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mrs. Deirup, in response 
to a subpena which was served upon you by this committee? 

Mrs. Deirup. Yes; I am. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Deirup. I have a counsel sitting beside me, but I would like 
to state that I don't feel that 

Mr. Arens. Keep your voice up, please. 

Mrs. Deirup. Yes. I said yes, I have counsel sitting beside me, but 
I do not feel that I am really adequately represented because he is not 
allowed to speak for me. T am, by trade, a draftsman 

Mr. Arens. You are rending from a prepared statement now? 

Mrs. Deirup. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Proceed, if you please. 

Mrs. Deirup. I can exi)ress many things on paper in graphic form, 
but I don't understand all this legal bit, and I don't feel able to answer 



2028 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

all the doubletalk questions. But I would like to make my position 
clear. 

I consider the members of this committee to be 

Mr. Willis. You have not been asked a question, Madam. Would 
you be able to deny on constitutional grounds that 

Mrs. Deirup. I would like 

Mr. Willis. Counsel, ask a question. 

Mr. Arens. Let us get you identified and your counsel identified 
on the record, and then you can go ahead on your dissertation. 

Mrs. Deirup. I do want to say that I don't feel I am adequately 
represented. He is an excellent lawyer, or obviously I wouldn't have 
selected him. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, identify yourself on this record. 

Mr. Edises. Bertram Edises, an attorney from Oakland, California. 

Mr. Arexs. We are going to try to avoid anything that could be 
construed by a reasonable person as doubletalk which you are upset 
about. 

Would you tell this committee plainly, openly, frankly, candidly, 
were you, beginning in 1943, a member of tlie Young Communist 
League? The Young Conununist League? That is clear. 

Mrs. Deirup. I heard you. 

Mr. Arens. Now, kindly respond to the question. 

Mrs. Deirup. I consider the members of this committee to be dedi- 
cated people and I would very much like to cooperate with this com- 
mittee, but after yesterday's performance, I am even more convinced 
of your dedicated principles. You are dedicated to the destruction 
of freedom of tliought, freedom of the speech and assembly, and of 
association. 

You are dedicated to the preservation of white supremacy and to 
segregations and lynchings, and you are also dedicated to public 
hearings by private invitations. 

I, too, am a dedicated and principled individual dedicated to the 
preservation of democracy, freedom of thought, association and 
equality and dignity for all our people. I am dedicated to the promo- 
tion of better education for all of our people, and for peace. 

I am flattered that my small efforts in these directions should re- 
ceive the committee's recognition. This committee and all its noble 
pursuits will attempt to harass and vilify me and, thereb}', the ideals 
and issues that I have championed. 

In my attempt to preserve and protect these cherished ideals, I am 
very proud to be able to invoke one or several of the points of our Bill 
of Rights, and I have three ancestors that fought in the American 
Revolution, and one of them lost a leg at the Battle of Lexington. 

They very carefully prepared the Bill of Rights and put it in our 
Constitution that we may enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happi- 
ness as we know it. This committee states that its purpose is to gather 
information in order to prepare legislation. As most of the questions 
relate — as most of the questions asked of the witnesses relate to private 
beliefs, I question the validity of the whole committee mider the Bill of 
Rights, which states that Congress shall make no laws abridging the 
freedom of thought, speech, assembly, and association. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a dedicated member of the Communist Party? 
(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2029 

Mrs. Deirup. I think I made my position amply clear. I referred 
to the Bill of Iviohts. I don't remember all of the thin<is in the Bill of 
Eights, but 1 do remember very clearly that the 13 colonies saw to it 
that they kept in the Constitntioii what they brought from England, 
what my ancestors brought from p]ngland, and that is that you have no 
right to compel me to testify against myself. 

Mr. Arexs. Does that complete your answer ? 

jSIr. "Willis. Proceed. 

Mrs. Deirup. Yes ; it does. 

Mr. Arens. I will not ask the lady when she Avas born, but — where 
were you born ? Where were you born, please ? 

Mr. Deirfp, Yes ; I was born in Palo Alto, at the Palo Alto-Stan- 
ford Hospital. Do you want the date ? 

Mr. Arens. No, we wouldn't 

Mrs. Deirut. I will be glad to give it to you. 

Mr. Arexs. Come ahead with it. 

Mrs. Deirup. I am not a bit shy. I was born on August 22, 1918, 
and I have three children and they are in the audience. 

Mr. Arens. Now, ma'am, give us just a word about your formal 
education, please. 

Mrs. Deirup. I would be glad to, but I would like to know what the 
relevance is or pertinency or pertinence 

Mr. Arens. I want to ask you whether or not your attendance and 
membership in the Young Communist League coincided in point of 
time with any institutional activity in which you may have been en- 
gaged. Would you kindly answer the question and give us a word 
about your formal education ? 

Mrs. Deirup. May I talk to my counsel ? This is where I really lose 
this bit. 

Mr. Willis. Ask the c{uestion directly. 

Mr. Arens. I asked her to please tell us a word about her formal 
education. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Deirup. I think I have already indicated my position very 
clearly. I don't think this committee has any right to make inquiry 
into by beliefs, and m.any of my beliefs have come through my school- 
ing, to Ije sure. 

If the purpose of the committee, of course, is to prepare legislation, 
and it relates to people's beliefs, then I think the committee is out of 
order. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the record reflect, 
then, an order and direction for this lady to please tell us about her 
formal education. 

Mr. Willis. I direct you to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Deirup. In view of the purpose that I have indicated that I 
think the committee is on, legislation and so forth, and in view of the 
jjosition that I have made, I respectfully invoke the same principles 
that I originally did in terms of freedom of thought, speech, not to 
speak, and you cannot compel me to bear witness against myself. 

Mr. Willis. In other words, you invoke the privileges of the first 
and fifth amendments ? 



2030 COMIMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

(The witness conferred with her counseL) 

Mrs. Deirup. Yes ; I am invoking all of the provisions, and I would 
like to add I didn't have this in my notes before I came because I 
didn't realize that our Congressman here was seated illegally in Con- 
gress, so I would like to add to it the fourteenth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Now, would you kindly tell us if you joined the Young 
Comnnniist League while you were a student at the University of 
California? 

Mrs. Deirup. I tliink I have made my position clear on all these 
questions. 

Mr, Willis. You are directed to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Deirup. My answer is tlie same as before. It is the same as 
the last one. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you have present, current information, ma'am, 
which you can supply to this committee respecting the identifications 
and activities in northern Califoi-nia of persons who, to your certain 
knowledge, are now, or in tlie recent past have been, members of the 
Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Deirup. If I was so fortunate as to have all this valuable infor- 
mation, I wouldn't give it to you any vray. 

Mr. Arens. You are on the County Committee, so we understand, 
of the Communist Party, and we thouglit perhaps you might have 
some information that could be of service to this committee. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Deirup. If you have all these answers from such reliable and 
unimpeachable sources 

Mr. Arens. Are you on tlie Alameda County Committee of the 
Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel. ) 

Mrs. Deirup. I was attempting to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. I will withdraw the next to last question, and have the 
last question be the principal outstanding question, namely, are you 
on the County Connnittee of Alameda County of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Deirup. If I have done anything illegal, I Ihink you should 
take me into court where I can have adequate counsel. 

Mr. Arens. Now, would you kindly respond to the question? Does 
that complete your answer ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 
^ Mrs. Deirup. My answer is the same. I decline to answer that ques- 
tion on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

The committee will stand in recess until 1 :15. 

(Wliereupon, at 11 :55 a.m., Friday, May 13, lOGO, the subcommittee 
recessed, to reconvene at 1 :1 T) p.m. the same day.) 

(Members of the subconnnittee present at the time of recess : Repre- 
sentatives Willis and Johansen.) 



COAfMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2031 

AFTERNOON SESSION— FRIDAY, MAY 13, 1960 

(Tlio suheommitloc reconvened at I :40 p.m., Hon. Edwin Vj. Willis 
(chainntui of the subcommittee) presiding.) 

A[r. Willis. The subcommittee will please come to order. 

(Members of the subcommittee })resent at time of reconvening-: 
Representatives Willis and Johansen.) 

Mr. A\'iLLis. Again I want to say that we appreciate the cooperation 
of people within the hearing room. We are glad to have you. We 
will not liave disturbances here. We will just go about our business 
and I know that everything will work out all right. 

^Ir. Arens, call 3'our next witness. 

Mr. Arents. Mr, Karl Prussion, kindly come forward to the witness 
table and remain standing wliile the chairman administers an oath, 
if you ])lease, sir. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your I'ight hand. 

Yon do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

^Ir. Prussion. I so do. 

TESTIMONY OF KARL PEUSSION 

Mr. Arens. I want to be certain that you are situated in proper 
relationship to the microphone, Mr. Prussion. 

Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occupation. 

Mr. Prussion. ^ly name is Karl Prussion. I reside in Los Altos, 
California. My address is Box 396, Los Altos. I am a metallurgical 
engineer by profession and a builder by choice. 

Mr. Arens. INIr. Prussion, I expect in the course of this interroga- 
tion to cover a number of areas with you. At the outset I should like 
to ask you first of all, have you ever been a member of tlie Communist 
Party ? 

]Mr. Prussion. I have been a member of the Communist Party for 
approximately 26 years. 

Mr. Arens. When did you join the Communist Party and when 
did you finally, irrevocably, disassociate yourself from the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Prussion. I joined the Communist Party in 1933, and I irrev- 
ocably disassociated myself from the Communist Party on August 
12, 19.59. 

Mr. Arens. "VAHiere did you join the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Prussion. I joined the Communist Party in Detroit, Michigan. 

Mr. Arens. And over what period of time did you serve in the 
Comnnmist Party in Detroit, Michigan ? 

Mr. Prussian. I served in the Communist Party in Detroit, Mich- 
igan, from 1933 until 1940, then I went to New Mexico for 2 years. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, during all or part of your membership in the 
Communist Party, have a membership in which you were a dedicated 
Communist, ideologically in complete accord with the party? 

Mr. Prussion. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Oyer wdiat period of your service in the Communist 
Party were you in that status? 

Mr. Prussion. From 1933 through 1938. 



2032 COMLIUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Arens. And then tell us just in capsule form so Ave have the 
broad perspective of j^our service, what happened at that time? 

Mr. Prussion. Do you mean in 1938 ? 

Mr, Ajrens. In 1938, so far as your membership in the party was 
concerned. 

Mr. Prussion. Well, in 1938, because of a whole series of events 
that happened within the Communist Party, I became thoroughly 
disillusioned with the machinations of the Communist Party and did 
not break with the party nor did I get expelled from the Communist 
Party, but became a reluctant Communist trying to get out from that 
time until I finally convinced the Federal Bureau of Investigation 
of my sincerity in my efforts to help our Government in the fight 
against the Communist menace. 

Mr. Arens. Did you shortly thereafter become reaffiliated with the 
Communist Party at the behest and with the cooperation of the Fed- 
eral Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Prussion. Yes ; I so did. 

Mr. Arens. And when did you then reafRliate yourself with the 
Communist Party ? Just approximately. That is, as an FBI under- 
cover agent. 

]\Ir. Prussion. As an FBI undercover agent it was the latter part 
of 1947 in the city of Carmel, California. 

Mr. Arens. Then did you continuously serve in the Communist 
Party in various posts, in various activities, which we will explore 
later on, at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Prussion. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you continued in that capacity until you were, 
what we call, surfaced in this last year ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Prussion. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Prussion, without giving us details of your activity, 
tell us the various posts or assignments which you held in the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Prussion. Well, at the outset I was a section organizer of the 
West Side Section of tlie Communist Party in Detroit. I was the 
organizer for the Communist Party at the Ford ;^^otor Car Co. I was 
a member of the District Committee, the District Industrial Com- 
mission of the Communist Party in Detroit. 

In this area, California, where I came in late 1942, I was a sort of 
member-at-large with party contacts, visits, etc., but no formal local 
membership. Then I was in various cells and I was also a member 
of the Trade Union Commission of the Communist Party in Santa 
Clara County. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Prussion, as a point of departure in our 
interrogation of you today, may I ask you this first fundamental 
question : 

Based upon your background and extensive experience in the Com- 
munist Party, first as a dedicated Communist and thereafter as a 
person in the conspiratorial activities of the party at the behest of the 
Federal Bureau of Investigation serving your (jrovcrnment, tell this 
Committee on Un-American Activities how serious is the Communist 
operation now on American soil ? 

Mr. Prussion. It is my sincere and honest opinion that never before 
in the history of the Communist Party of the United Statas has the 
situation been more critical for our democratic form of government. 



COIMjMUNIST party — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2033 

Tlie Coinmiinist Party in tlie Unit ed States today is more influential 
in economic, political, and social circles than ever in its history. In 
brief, the situation is indeed critical in view of the international situa- 
tion, with the recent "\nisit of Khrushchev to our shores, and the corn- 
plications that are rapidly developing throughout the world. 

1 believe that the Communist Party is a conspiracy and that the 
party is definitely a menace to the well-being of our American way 
of life. 

Mr, Arens. Is the Communist Party a political party ? 

Mr. Prussion. The Communist Party isn't, never has been, and 
never will be, a political party. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat is the Communist Party ? 

INIr. Prussion. The Communist Party is a conspiracy through which 
they intend ultimately, after they have achieved the prerequisites of 
the revolution, to overthrow our free enterprise system and establish 
a dictatorship of the proletariat by force and violence. 

]\Ir. Arens. Is the Communist Party an operation of the interna- 
tional Communist conspiracy on American soil ? 

Mr. Prussion. It so is. 

Mr. Arens. Are there Commmiists who are not technical members 
of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Prussion. I would Wke to enlarge on that, if you don't mind, sir. 

Mr. Arens. If you please, sir. 

Mr. Prussion. The Communist Party has a varied type of member- 
ship. They have one type of member who attends cell meetings, pays 
his clues. They have another type of Communist, because he doesn't 
want to identify himself with the cell for fear of exposure by an in- 
formant such as myself, who has a courier pay his dues. 

Then there are many, many Communists who have dropped out of 
the Communist Party, conveniently, so that they can hide their identity 
and in that way are better able to carry out the revolutionary work. 

There is a fourth type of Communist who is never associated with a 
cell, but he is a Leninist, and so imbued with the forthcoming revolu- 
tion that he works diligently wherever possible and keeps contact with 
Communist leaders on the higher level. 

This type of a Communist is usually a doctor, a lawyer, a political 
official and in the professional field of life. 

]\Ir. Arens. Mr. Prussion, in the course of tlie last day or so here we 
have had a number of people who have been identified to us by respon- 
sible people as members of the conspiracy, who have sat in that very 
chair in which you are now sitting and castigated this conunittee, say- 
ing, in effect, that our objectives are to deprive people of employment, 
smear people, and the like, although this committee tries as sincerely 
as we possibly can to proceed on the basis of fairness and impartiality. 

Can 3' on tell this committee, based upon your background and experi- 
ence in the party, what has happened to you at the hands of the 
party since you surfaced and made known to the world that you were 
an undercover agent of the FBI, serving in the Communist conspiracy 
at the behest of your Government? 

Mr. Prussion. The Communist Party, in the area in which I live 
and district-wise, has carried out a vicious campaign of vilification by 
spreading rumors as to my personality and character, in this manner 
trying to get the general citizenry of the area to disassociate them- 



2034 COMMUNIST PARTY — ^NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

selves with myself, in hopes that I would become disgusted and pick 
up and leave the area, and not carry on the fight against the Commu- 
nist Party in the vicmity in which 1 live. 

Mr. Arens. Have pressures been brought to bear to try to preclude 
you from employment since you made it known to the world that you 
were serving as an undercover agent of the Federal Bureau of Investi- 
gation, trying to get information for your Government ? 

Mr. Prussion. That is definitely true. Because of the nature of the 
rumors spread about myself 

Mr. Arens. Is your family presently fearful — I know you told me 
last evening of certain incidents I will not ask you to repeat — in gen- 
eral, is your family, your wife and children, are they presently fearful 
of recriminations by the party against you because you served your 
Government in this conspiracy ? 

Mr. Prussion. Yes ; they are. 

Mr. Arens. One other preliminary question before we begin to trace 
your activities in the party and reveal on this record information 
respecting its present activities here in this area. 

Tell us a word about Communist Party discipline. 

Mr. Prussion. When a person first joins the Communist Party and 
he reads their literature, their pamphlets, attends meetings, listens 
to lectures, and goes to their specialized and general schools, and when 
he begins to participate in violent activities and peaceful activities in 
the interest of the forthcoming revolution, he finds himself very 
shortly in the grip of Communist discipline from which it is difficult 
to dislodge oneself. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word as to the nature of that discipline, 
please, sir. 

Mr. Prussion. Within the Communist Party there is total disregard 
for law. Within the Communist Party there are rigged trials, forced 
confessions, provocations of suicides of Communists who have devi- 
ated, reprisals against Communists who might deviate on party 
strategy. 

All of these things are part and parcel of the essence of law within 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. To what extent does the Communist Party in its dis- 
cipline over the comrades, control their personal lives, their marital 
lives, their family lives ? 

Mr. Prussion. The Communist Party controls a member of the 
Communist Party throughout his life, and right through death they 
have complete control of a Communist Party member. 

A Communist Party member — and this is almost hard to believe, 
but it is unfortunately very true^ — finds himself always believing to 
be true the line of the Conununist International. If on one day 
the Communist International orders one tactic, he will carry it out 
and believe in it. If the very next day the Communist International 
orders another tactic, he will turn a somersault and actually believe 
it to be the truth and carry it out to the best of his ability. 

This inner obedience to communism, to its directives, is a most star- 
tling characteristic of a Comnninist that is very difficult to describe. 

Mr. Arens. Now with those preliminary observations out of the 
way, or covered here, I should say, Mr. Prussion, I will have a number 
of specific questions to ask you about Communist techniques and the 
like. 



com:munist party — northern California district 2035 

1 should like to have j'ou reverse the chronology for the moment 
and go back and tell ns the circumstances under which you joined 
the Connnunist Party. Tn view of the fact that we are, in this par- 
ticular hearing today, dii-ecting our attention to Communist activities 
in the northern segment of California, I would request that you do 
not go into detail about your activities in the Detroit area, but give us 
a brief word about your activities there, the posts you held and the 
like, and then, as soon as we have completed that in a preliminary 
manner, we will plunge into the activities in which you were engaged 
as an undercover agent here in northern California, and we will ask 
you about the current situation here in considerable detail. 

If you will, kindly proceed at your own pace on your entrance into 
the party and the activities in Detroit in summary form. 

Mr. Pkussiox. I joined the Communist Party in lOoo at the height 
of the depression while I was a senior at AVayne University. I was 
at that time living in a sick and uprooted world. There was a tuition 
raise on the campus, and it seemed as though the Communists came 
to me with the solution to my social and economic problems, as well 
as a solution to the prolyl ems of the world generally. 

I was lionized into the leadership of a student strike against the 
tuition raise. I was immediately given recognition, respect, under- 
standing, response, and I felt at that time, with very little knowledge 
of the workings of the Communist Party, that this was the organiza- 
tion for me and I joined. 

Mr. Akens. Now give us just a word of your career in Detroit, 
if you please, but I suggest, again, not in considerable detail because 
it is not an area in which we have a principal concern today. 

Mr. Prussion. Well, immediately after joining the Communist 
Party I was sent to be a section organizer of the Communist Party 
in Flint, Michigan, and was given directives to concentrate on the 
Negro churches in that area. 

I was successful in this conspiracy in influencing many of the Ne- 
gro ministers into violent actions in the city of Flint at that time. I 
was stricken with peritonitis and came back to the city of Detroit 
and went to the District Training School of the Communist Party, 
which was held in Farmington, Michigan. 

Mr. Arens. If I could interrupt you, Mr. Prussion, without dis- 
courtesy to yourself, I would like to have you hesitate on the training 
school, the training that you received, and give us a summary of 
what they train the comrades in, in these training schools. 

Mr. Prussiox. Well, the training there was heavy on the works 
of Lenin. We studied thoroughly the "State and Revolution," "Im- 
perialism, The Last Stage of Capitalism," "Left-wing Communism : 
An Infantile Disorder." 

We especially studied trade union tactics and strategy, and in addi- 
tion to that I was instructed and took courses in insurrection, provo- 
cation of violence. This course was taught by a woman by the name 
of Gertrude Hessler, who was the author of the text on insurrection. 

We were also put on 

Mr. Arexs. By insurrection, are you including street fighting? 
Mr. Prussiox. Insurrection included street fighting, seizure of 
police stations, cutting of communications, everything that is required 
of a Communist when the prerequisites are met, when the final strategy 
is carried out. 



2036 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Arens. Were you taught infiltration of mass organizations ? 

Mr. Prussion. We were taught infiUration of social, economic, and 
political organizations — principally at tliat time economic, which is 
the trade union movement. 

]Mr. Ajrens. Were you taught the techniques which we observe on 
this committee frequently, by which one or two comrades can move 
into a mass organization and take over that organization and direct 
it and control it? Were you taught those teclmiques, teclmiques of 
mass psychology and the like ? 

]Mr. pRussioN. There are numerous examples of that. This is the 
general strategy of the Communist Party for a few to lead many. 
I will give you an example. 

A new plant in the city of Detroit known as DeSoto started oper- 
ations and the Communist Party concentrated on that plant and had 
six Communists hired within that plant. During the process of body 
production, a girl who was cleaning tlie windows with a solution as 
the bodies passed by, had a nosebleed. A Communist seized on the 
opportunity and took some of the solution out with him when he 
went home from work. 

lie immediately contacted a chemist who was a member of the 
Communist Party. The chemist analyzed the solution and it was a 
mild solution of wood alcohol. Wood alcohol is supposed to be 
poisonous when inhaled. The Communist Party that very evening 
put out several hundred circulars in which the management was 
condemned for the treatment of women in that plant. 

The Communists took these circulars into the plant, distributed 
tliem, and at a designated hour they shut down the plant and were 
able to start the initial organizational drive in that plant for the 
forthcoming CIO union. 

That is one little example of how they would utilize certain con- 
ditions and enlarge upon it and arouse the indignation of the working 
people against their so-called oppressors and so on. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat else were you taught in this training school or 
in the training schools? Were you taught political warfare? 

Mr. Prussiox. Yes, very definitely. We were taught that the Com- 
munist Party, for example, does not believe in parliamentary methods 
as a battleground for the bettering of the working conditions of the 
working men. They believe that parliamentary methods should only 
be used to the extent that a parliament can be used ultimately for its 
own destruction. 

Mv. Arens. Mr. Prussion, if a person were talking to a comrade 
now, say a trained comrade, like Hyman Lumer, educational director 
of the Communist Party — and he has been coming through this State, 
as I understand it, making speeches to college groups — and someone 
said, "]Mr. Lumer, explain to me the policies and programs of the 
Communist Party." 

I have seen a great abundance of his work. He would be explaining 
the pie in the sky idea, would he not, that the Communist Party 
stands for peace, for jobs, for better housing; it stands for uplift in 
all types of areas. 

Were you taught anything in the training school which led you to 
believe, as a trainee of the Communists, one who was being disci- 
plined in the conspiracy, that the actual objectives, the actual moti- 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2037 

vat ion, the actual pro<2:ram of the Communist Party, was not one of 
humanity, but was one of total enslavement? 

]Mr. PiiussiON. That is very definitely true. The Communist Party 
picks no bones about it. If any member of the Connnunist Party 
were honest — and they are not — they would tell you that the Com- 
munist Party believes in overthrow in <>; the Government by force and 
violence, after the prerequisites of the revolution have been attained, 
and the manner in which they attain these prerequisites of the revo- 
lution is by the infiltration of social, economic, and political organi- 
zations. 

In the infiltration of these organizations, it is their job to arouse 
class hatred, to gain leadership within these organizations, and to 
accelerate the chiss struggle and teach the workmg class hatred of 
the people who direct our industry and our Government. 

IMt. Arexs. These comrades who have been working here with these 
youngsters, these young people who have been picketing here and 
causing the commotion, did the comrades make it plain to these young- 
sters that they are comrades, that they are part of a conspiratorial 
force and are using these yomigsters for their ultimate objectives? 

Mr. Prussion. No ; they do not. I recall, for example, when I went 
to Wayne University — I am just bringing this out. I think it is a 
little off the question, but I think it is pertinent. 

I recall that a lot of my convictions in joining the Communist Party 
I received at the university. In the study, for example, of psychology, 
we were taught human behaviorism and the materialistic conception of 
psychology. In the study of sociology, similarly, we studied Darwin's 
theory, and the material was in the manner of an approach to these 
questions. 

Consequently, when the spirit of man and the soul of man and the 
name of God are never mentioned, never discussed at the universities, 
a man is readily prepared to accept membership into the Communist: 
Party. Tliis was part of the preparation for my joining the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Aeexs. Mr. Prussion, earlier in these hearings I was inter- 
rogating a lady, Mrs. Barbara Hartle, who had been in the conspiracy, 
but who broke with the conspiracy, and in the course of the interroga- 
tion I observed tliat in finding her way out of the conspiracy back as 
an anti-Communist, she had found her way back to God, and I heard 
snickering and loud laughter here by these young people. 

Within the framework of the Communist operation, is there room 
for concepts of God and spiritual values as we are taught them at our 
mother's knee ? 

Mr. Prussion. The Communist Party lowers man to that of a beast 
in the field. As far as the Communist is concerned, man is material 
and not spiritual; he has no soul, no spirit, and there is no God. 
This is elementary and fundamental to every Communist. 

One cannot live a peaceable life under communism and believe in 
God at the same time. Belief in God tears to shreds the entire Com- 
munist conspiracy. 

Mr. Arens. Would you tell us whether or not, in the process by 
which you disassociated yourself from the conspiracy, you were able 
to find any strength and any spiritual faith and a reemphasis in your 
own life in concepts of a divine being ? 



2038 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Prussion. It was during the very early part of my activities 
in the Communist Party when 1 participated in provocation and vio- 
lence, when I was partly responsible for the death of many people in 
riots, I at that time asked God many times for forgiveness and was 
trying to find a way out of the Communist Party. 

1 had the extreme fortune of meeting in the city of Flint a man by 
the name of Dr. Longman of the Christian Church, and was very 
much influenced by his teachings. At a later date, in 1940-42 when I 
was in Albuquerque, I was fortunate in meeting a Catholic priest by 
the name of Father Dumerai and there I found the real solution to the 
problems of the world, belief in God, and God's guidance. 

I learned to believe that God is truth, that man is created in his image 
and likeness and, therefore, man must reflect the truth of God. 

I had a further association with a Dr. Bailey of the Baptist Church. 
He became a very dear friend of mine. This was all during the period 
when I was in tJie Conmiunist Party. Through these associations and 
through a study of the Bible, and participating in church activities, 
I regained my faith in God, and I am very happy for that, because I 
am able to sit here, I believe, because of that, and testify before this 
committee. 

Mr. Arens. Now, give us just a word of the career that you had in 
Detroit in the party after you completed your basic training as a 
hard-core Communist before we get into your activities in this area, 
in summary form, please, sir. 

Mr. Prussion. The Communist Party trained me in trade union 
activity, and I worked in such ]:)lants as Briggs, DeSoto, Packard, 
Plymouth, Jenks-Muir Sprhig Plant, General Motors Trucks, and in 
every instance was sent into these plants by the Communist Party for 
the purpose of building the party in those plants and arousing class 
hatred, strikes, dissension, in the efl'ort to build what they called a 
strong militant union, in preparation for the forthcoming revolution. 
I can relate many stories about the activities in the CIO. 
Mr. Arens. May I interrupt you to say, Mr. Prussion, you have 
been in executive sessions with this committee respecting the Detroit 
situation, and we haAe that on record. We are not, in this particular 
series of hearings here in San Francisco, primarily interested in devel- 
oping factual material on the public record on the Detroit situation. 
We will go into that some other time. 

Is there any other significant fact which you would like to recount 
1-especting Detroit before we commence on your career in the party 
here in California? 

Mr. Prussion. Well, there is one significant fact, and I think it 
is important that we make this clear. 

During the formative stages of the CIO in the city of Detroit, the 
leader of the movement to organize the CIO through the Conmiunist 
Party, wlio had the mass base in the plants, was not, as anybody 
would think, Earl Browder or Jack Stachel, or Mr. William Wein- 
stone. It happened to be a man by the name of Bill Gebert. 

Bill Gebert represented the Communist International in the city of 
Detroit during the formative stage, the development of and the con- 
clusion of the activities to build the CIO in the area. 
Mr. Arens. Isn't he in Poland now? 

Mr. Prussion. Bill Gebert today is the head of the Trade Union 
Commission of the Commvmist Party in Poland. 



COMIMTJNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2039 

]\Ir. Akens. Was your entire, tenure in the Communist Party in 
California at the beliest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation? 

^Ir. Piassiox. >\[y foi'mal tenure in cells, yes; l)u( there was a short 
period, I would say the last fiAe months of membership in the Commu- 
nist Party, where I had notified the FT^I that I had ])lanned to make 
the break and it Avas durino- that ])oriod in which I had contacted the 
FBI consistently, but I was iiot foi'nially workina' with them. 

ISIr. Arexs. I will put it in a different way. When you started 
with the Communist operation in California, after you had moved 
from Detroit, did you do so at the behest and in cooperation with 
the FBI? 

]Mr. Prussion. Yes; I did that, with the cooperation of the FBI. 

iVIr. Arexs. And you were not then ideolo2:ically identified with 
the party. You were serving your Government; is that correct? 

Mr. Prusstox. That is correct. 

Mr. Willis. Wlien was that? In other words, when did you start 
really working for the FBI ? 

Mr. Prussiox. The latter part of 1947. 

]Nfr. Arexs. I want to clear the record on one item. 

We are constantly confronted by the comrades with the epithets, 
which we get used to — in which they say that we have stool pigeons 
who are paid informers, that the FBI and we pay fabulous sums to 
people to squeal on other people, and the like. 

Just in passing, could j^ou tell us, you who have served as an FBI 
undercover agent in the Communist conspiracy in California from 
1947 until a few months ago, tell us, without giving an amount, were 
you paid a salary, were you paid expenses? 

Mr. Prussion. For about four years I was paid nothing, and at all 
times since then the amount I was paid ranged from $10 to possibly 
$125 a month, which was way below the actual expenses that I had 
while serving our Government against this conspiracy. 

Mr, Arex's. Does the amount which you have been paid, which is 
obvioush^ nominal, for your service in the conspiracy on a monetary 
basis anywhere near compensate you for the financial losses to which 
you have been subjected since you came out of the Communist Party 
as a result of the smear attacks against you by the party ? 

Mr. Prussiox. Well, it doesn't begin to even approach the losses 
that I have taken. 

Mr. Arexs. Let us commence with your first affiliation here in Cali- 
fornia m 1947 at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, 
and bring up right on down to date, listmg the cells to which you 
were attached, the activities in which j'ou were engaged, and, of equal 
importance, the persons who, to your certain knowledge — we want no 
speculation — persons who, to your certain knowledge, were part and 
parcel members of the Communist Party. Do you understand ? 

Mr. Prussiox. Yes, sir ; I do. 

Mr. Arexs. So that this record can be clear, may I ask you a pre- 
liminary question ? 

^V]\en you testify that you know to a cei-tainty that John Jones 
is a member of the Communist Party, your knowledge will not come 
from an observation of a membership book, will it, for they do not 
have membership books ? 
Mr. Prussiox. No, sir. 



2040 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Arens. It will come from your certain experience with that 
person in a closed party cell ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Prussion. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Arens. That is, a cell or unit, to which you as a comrade, knew 
only hard-core members of the party were admitted; isn't that 
correct ? 

Mr. Prussion. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Just so the record is still clear, tell us what is a cell 
meetino; and wliat is a closed party meeting. 

j\Ir. Prussion. Well, in order to describe a cell meeting, we have 
to go into the description of the organizational apparatus of the Com- 
munist Party so we can come down to the cell or unit or group or 
whatever they are calling it now. 

Mr. Arexs. Give us a word of that on the record, please, of the 
structural organization. 

Mr. Prussiox. Well, the structural organization consists first of 
the Communist International. Then there is the National Committee 
of the Communist Party, which is responsible to the Communist 
International. 

Then there are the district committees of the Commimist Party. 
In California we have two districts, the Northern District and the 
Southern District, and the district is divided into sections. 

The section, for example, in which I worked a good part of the 
time in California consisted of Santa Cruz, Santa Clara, San Mateo 
Counties. The sections are divided into cells or units, whatever the 
situation and condition may require as to the number of cells and units 
in those sections. 

A cell consists of party members. They attend regularly, usually 
once a month. Very often cell meetings are called under certain 
stress conditions to take up vital problems during a certain period. 

A coll usually has a secretary-treasurer, the educational director, a 
coordinator of the activities of all the members of the cell. 

Would you care for me to describe a cell meeting for you at this time ? 

Mr. Arexs. Tlie thing I want to be certain of is that this record 
reflects facts which make it clear to anyone of honest intentions that 
our objective here is to get the cold, hard facts from one who is under 
oath and who can describe procedures which cause you, as an honest 
individual, to Imow that the identifications which you will be shortly 
revealing are of persons who, to your certain knowledge, are not sus- 
pected because of political belief or political association or any other 
association, but known to a certainty by you to be hard-core con- 
spirators. 

Mr. Prussion. That is correct. I think 1 have given you a descrip- 
tion of the organizational apparatus of the Connnunist Party and I 
have described the cell. 

Mr. Arexs. Are non-Communists admitted into a cell meeting? 

Mr. Prussion. Never. 

Mr. Arens. Does the party have a system, whereby people in one 
cell or in one segment, one fraction of the operation are precluded 
from knowing the members in another unit? 

Mr. 1'russion. It is very rare that the members of one cell will 
know the membei's of another cell. The only chance they have of 
knowing the membei-s of another cell is if a delegate from a cell goes 



COlVEVrUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2041 

to a section moctino; and a dolpo-ate from another cell ffoes to the 
same section iiiee(in<i'. 

I might also say that right within (he cell sometimes it is very 
iliflicnlt to fuid ont who the members are who ha^■e couriers paying 
tlieir dues. It is likewise sometimes very diflicnlt to find out, after 
yon join a cell, those members who have dropped out of that cell to 
hide their identity. 

So it is very difficult to have a complete membership list, with the 
number of members and so forth of any particular cell. 

Mr. JoiiAXSEN. Mr. Chairman, before the counsel proceeds, I should 
like to go back to the first statement the witness made regarding the 
organizational setup. 

"Would he i-epeat for the record, the top, the veiy top level organiza- 
tion ? Will he identify that again ? 

Mr. Prussion. The very top level organization of the Communist 
Party of the United States is the Communist International whicli at 
many times, under certain circumstances, changes its name to deceit- 
fully hide its intent. 

Mr. Arens. What is the constituent makeup of that ? What is the 
relationship between that and any foreign power or government? 

Mr. Prussion. The Communist International consists of a delegated 
body of representatives of the Communist Parties of the various 
countries throughout the world. It is the Communist Party of the 
Soviet Union which always, with no exception, sets down the strategy 
to be used by the Communist Parties throughout the world. 

Mr. Arexs. And when Khrushchev set foot on American soil in his 
recent visit, he came here not only as head of the Soviet Government ; 
he came here as head of the international Communist apparatus and 
every comrade in the world knew it; is that correct? 

Mr. Prussion". That is correct, but I would have to enlarge on that. 
Possibly I can do it later on. 

Mr. JoHAisrsEN. Let me ask one or two further questions. 

We had testimony yesterday by a former member of the party, 
a very capable witness, with respect to an emotional loyalty to Soviet 
Russia. Is it, or is it not true, that there is not only an emotional 
loj'alty, but a very literal organizational loyalty and relationship be- 
tween the membei-s of the Communist Party of the United States of 
America and Soviet Russia as the motherland of the international 
conspiracy? 

Mr. Prussion. The American Communist is completely and thor- 
oughly devoted to the Soviet Union. Tliis is the paramount thought 
in his mind in all of his activities. Being a Communist and a Leninist, 
he has dedicated his life to come to tlie assistance of the Soviet Union, 
if ever need be, just as the Soviet Union is dedicated to come to the 
assistance of the American Communist Party if that is ever needed. 

This is elementary. This is fundamental to every Communist in 
the teaching of Leninism. 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. And isn't it true that in the mind and according to 
the teachings and disciplines of the American Communists, as illus- 
trated by a statement made by Mr. Herbert Aptheker in an article in 
a Soviet publication last October, that treason, in the language of a 
Communist, means disloyalty to the Soviet Union and to this inter- 

56597— 60— pt. 2 4 



2042 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

national conspiracy, and bears no relationship to loyalty or disloyalty 
to the United States and the Constitution ? 

Mr. Prussion. This is elementary. 

Mr. JOHANSKN. Therefore, isn't it basically true that it is impossible 
for an American citizen to be a member of the Communist Party and 
be loyal to the United States and to the Constitution of the United 
States? 

Mr. Prussion. I wish to repeat that the Communist Party is not 
a political party. The Communist Party is a conspiracy, loyal and 
devoted to the Soviet Union for the overthrow of our Government 
by force and violence when the prerequisites of the revolution are met. 

This is the principal objective of all the Communists. They live 
and are willing to die and sacrifice their lives for this. The Commu- 
nist Party of the United States, as lono; as I can remember, has al- 
ways insisted that it is an American political party, and this, of course, 
is deceit. 

It always insists that it best expresses the principles of Thomas 
Jefferson, John Paine, Abraham Lincoln, and George Washington, 
and these are some of the deceitful methods that the Connnunists 
have always used and are especially now using to hoodwink, befuddle, 
and deceive the American public. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I want to thank the witness. 

With the indulgence of the chairman, I should like to observe that 
if there is one single college student in this room or who has been 
listening to these hearings who, as a result of these hearings, has 
some growing awareness that in playing with communism they are 
flirting and consorting with treason, I believe that the hearing will 
have been amply justified. 

Mr. Arens. Since we are still on preliminaries, I would like to ask 
one other question. I will promise you that I will try not to ask a 
question that will get us off the theme of the chronology of your 
service here. 

What makes a Communist? Wliy do peo])le, some of whom are 
brilliant, why do they become Commimists? I have been in this work 
some number of years now. Some of the smartest people I have ever 
seen are Communists, brilliant minds, and I mean that literally. 

Mr. Prussion. Usually a person of that type will join a Communist 
Party, and this is rather rare, when they don't really realize what the 
objectives of the Communist Party are, how they operate, what the 
inner workings of the party are, the ruthlessness of the party, and so 
forth. 

A person many times, of that type, might find thnt he is not socially 
located properly. A person of that tyjie many times will look for 
recognition. lie will get recognition by working with the Communists. 
He looks for response and he will get that by working with the 
Communists. He will get respect and he will be a leader. 

I lionestly believe that many people of the type that you describe 
will join the Communist Party to gain the respect, the leadership 
within the Communist conspiracy, since they cannot get it within our 
free enterprise system. This is my answer to your question. 

Mr. Arens. So this record will reflect what we are trying to do, I 
would like to suggest this as a pattern of presentation, Mr. Prussion, 
namely, that you proceed in a chronological order, imit by unit, and I 
would like to suggest this: We will have three approaches to it. 



COMMXTNIST PARTY — NORTPIERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2043 

You start with the first unit to which you were attached, tell us 
the unit; then tell us what you did in the unit and what the unit did, 
and then, third, who else, to your certainty, was in the unit. 

Have you got the three points? 

Mr. PuussiuN. Yes. 

Mr, AuExs. All right, sir, with the understanding that you are 
going to do that, would you kindly tell us about the first unit to which 
you were attached in the Communist operation when you penetrated 
it as an FBI undercover agent in 1947. 

Mr. Prussion. In 1947 I was not associated with a unit. In 1947 
I was making every effort to become associated with a unit. It wasn't 
until 1949 that I actually was formally transferred from the city of 
Detroit to California as a Comnumist Party member. 

I was asked to join the Los Altos-Mountain View cell of the Com- 
munist Party by a man by the name of Joe Houseman who, at that 
time, was the business agent for the United Electrical Workers Union 
at "Westinghouse and General Electric and many of the other small 
electrical plants in the area. 

Mr. AiajNs. Let me make this admonition again. Do not give the 
name of a single person unless you are to a certainty prepared to 
testify, and do testify, that that person was known by you to be a 
member of the Communist Party. 

Do you understand ? 

Mr. Prussion. I understand. 

Mr. i\jEiENS. All right, sir. Proceed with the pattern we have ]ust 
agreed on and tell us of your activities, the unit, what you did, and 
who else was in it. 

yir. Prussion. The first unit meeting that I attended — it is pretty 
hard to remember because there have been so many shifts from one 
unit to another and combining of two units mto one, and so forth. 

But all of these people that I will talk about are members of either 
one unit or another. But to my best recollection, the first unit meet- 
ing I went to consisted of members like Walter Harju 

Mr. Arens. If you have difficulty on a name, if it isn't a clear name, 
be sure, Mr. Prussion, and spell it so that the reporter has it accurately 
in the record. 

Mr. Prussion. H-a-r-j-u. He was a carpenter. Estelle King and 
William King. Mr. King, I believe, is an electronic engineer. El- 
liott Wilson, who is a stamp collector and has just recently received a 
degree at the University or Stanford and is trying to get his teacher's 
certificate, and his wife, Mary Wilson. 

Then there is Doris Dawson, who is a housewife. I think way back 
in those days these are about the first names that I recollect. There 
have been, I might say, as many memliers who have dropped out of 
the Communist Party in the area to hide their identity as there were 
remaining party members in the cells. 

Mr. Arens. AVhen you say "dropped out of the party," do you mean 
a technical resignation or withdrawal in order to avoid the impact of 
security laws or identifications ? 

_ Mr. Prussion. It was to avoid impact of security laws. It was to 
hide their identity in the work that they were doing. 

Mr. Arens. That comes back to one of the preliminary questions we 
asked, namely, are there Commmiists who have disassociated them- 



2044 COMMUNIST PARTY — ^NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

selves from this formal entity, but still remain for all intents and 
purposes part and parcel of the conspiracy ? 

Mr. Pkussion. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. All right sir. You have told us the first unit to which 
you were attached. You have told us also who was in the unit with 
you. Now tell us what did that unit do ? 

Mr. Pkussion. Well, at that particular time the major work of the 
Communist Party was to — it was of a political nature within the ranks 
of the Independent Progressive Party. They were running a candi- 
date in that area by the name of Betsy Fislier, and in doing this work 
they tried to gain the support of various other organizations tliat the 
Communist Party members had infiltrated. 

They participated in the organization of meetings for this candidate. 
They raised money for the candidate. They circulated petitions. 
This was the general nature of my first activities in the area. 

It was also at this particular time that there was an organization in 
the area called the Council for Civic Unity which is, I believe, a 
spendid organization because it believes in the principles of our Ameri- 
can way of life. 

They believe that man should, regardless of his race, color or creed, 
should have all the privileges through law. The Communist Party 
decided to infiltrate that organization. All members of the cell joined 
the Council for Civic Unity, and it was the job of Communist 
Party members to control the thinking and the activities of the 
Council for Civic Unity. 

They are in that position, I believe, today, and this accounts pos- 
sibly for the many resolutions and many positions that this organiza- 
tion takes which are identical to the position of the Communist Party. 

This is the method of infiltration that the Communists use to get 
support from organizations to put across the program that they want. 
Unfortunately, there are many organizations of this type, and this 
type of an organization should not be confused with a Communist- 
front organization, which is actually set up by the Communist Party 
in order to do their revolutionary work. 

Another part of my activity while I was in that cell was, I was a 
m.ember of the Trade Union or Industrial Commission of tlie Santa 
Clara Valley Communist Party, and it consisted of a delegated body 
of men from plants throughout the area, Pemianente, Westinghouse, 
General Electric, Food Machinery, and San Jose Steel. These are the 
plants that I can recall. 

There, too, of course, it was the job of this industrial commission to 
carry out the directives, national and district-wise, in the activities in 
different trade unions that these delegates were active in. 

I don't know, I never did know, the membership of the cells in the 
different ])lants. I only got to know the delegates from these plants. 

Mr. Arens. Does that complete the first unit to which you were 
attached ? 

Mr. Prussion. Well, of course, this unit was involved in various 
other activities. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about that, please, sir. 

Mr. Prussion. One of the activities, for example, was the Smith 
Act agitation. They had the Hollywood Ten, so-called, and they 
carried out fund-raising campaigns, meetings, petitions, circulars, in 



COIVrMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2045 

an effort to get the Supreme Court to rule in their favor on the Smith 
Act. This is the general typo of activities that they were engaged in. 

Mr. Arens. May I interpose a question at this time? 

In the functional operation of the conspiracy, is a comrade under 
discipline as to the particular part he is to play in the overall con- 
Sjiiratorial operation? In other words, is a member of a cell, let us 
say hero in San Francisco, permitted by the conspiracy to engage 
in espionage, an operation which we all know, those of us in this work, 
is headquartered out of the consulates and embassies ? 

^[r. Prussiox. Well, we had one experience along that line. But a 
Communist who is actively engaged in espionage or sabotage does not, 
unless he makes a mistake and brings the information or reveals the 
type of work he is doing to his cell. 

lie, of course, is in contact with the proper people within the Com- 
munist Party who could take that information to the proper authori- 
ties. 

Mr. Arexs. Have you had a particular experience in which you 
have seen a crossover of the wires in which the espionage functions 
were mixed or revealed to the comrades in an ordinary cell operation 
of, say, political warfare? 

^Ir. Prussiox. Yes. 

Mr. Arexs. Could you reveal it to us ? 

Mr. Prussiox. Well, in the cell in which I worked — this was during 
the Smith Act and the Internal Security Act debate, when the party 
was underground, one member of the cell, in reporting what he was 
doing during that period to justify his being a good Communist, re- 
ported that since he was a ball-bearing salesman, he had access to most 
of the missile plants in the area and knew the firing schedules of 
missiles generally. 

He knew the problems that we had with missiles. And he knew 
the location of missile fields, et cetera. This particular Communist 
told this to our cell and I think he may have been reprimanded be- 
cause he had no business telling it to us. Tliis is one example. 

Mr. Arexs. Then is it true that there is a functional departmental- 
ization within the conspiracy ? 

Mr. Prussiox. Yes ; there is. 

Mr. Arexs. Have you completed the presentation of the factual 
material on your first cell ? 

Mr. Willis. Let me suggest at this point, since he has substantially 
done that, that the reporter might wish a little recess. 

We will take a 5-minute recess. 

(Members of the subcommittee present at the taking of the recess: 
Kepresentatives Willis and Johansen.) 

(Members of the subcommittee present at the expiration of the 
recess: Representatives Willis and Johansen.) 

Mr. Willis. The subcommittee will please come to order. 

There is some high feeling prevailing outside. I again want to 
thank the people insfde for their restraint. I think it would be wise to 
take this attitude, everyone here, that all of j^ou do not have to agree 
to anything one particular witness says, and all of you do not have to 
agree with what another might have to say. 

But I think these hearings are instructive, and it is the essence of 
our way of doing business in this country. You have a right to dis- 
agree, but disagi-ee without being too disagreeable about it. 



2046 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

I hope that the fine order bemg maintained will persist. If not, we 
will have to take measures, but let us not talk about this. 

Mr. Akexs. We would like to resume with the witness who was on 
the stand, Mr. Chairman, if you please. 

Mr. Prussion, would 3'ou kindly resume the witness chair? 

At the point at which we went into recess, Mr. Prussion, you were 
discussing the activities of the first unit to which you were attached 
when you went into the Communist Party in California at the behest 
of the Federal Bureau of Investigation in order to serve your 
Government. 

You had described some of the activities of this, I believe it is 
called, the Los Altos 

Mr. Prussion. Los Altos-Mountain View cell of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Arens. The Los Altos-]Mountain View unit of the Comnumist 
Party, and you have identified certain persons who, to your certain 
knowledge, were members of that unit. 

Now, Mr. Prussion, in our informal conversation during the recess 
you made it clear to me that there was one individual about whom 
you wanted to set the record clear, who was not known by you to 
oe a Communist, although supported in a political activity by the 
Communists. 

You were fearful the record might not be absolutely fair and impar- 
tial with respect to that individual. So I would suggest before we 
proceed further in your testimony that you clarify the record on that 
item. 

Mr. Prussion. Yes. I have reference to Betsy Fisher, who ran for 
an office on the Independent Progressive Party ticket, and the entire 
campaign, from its inception, was organized, directed and concluded 
by decisions made by the Communist Party units in that congres- 
sional district. 

JNIrs. Betsy Fisher was the candidate, but I had never seen her 
attend a cell of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. You had mentioned her name in connection with an 
activity and you were fearful that the mentioning of her name might 
be misconstrued. 

Mr. Prussion. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. You at no time in your testimony suggested that she 
was directly a Communist ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Prussion. Betsy Fisher, however, carried out the decisions of 
the Communist Party insofar as the campaign was concerned. Plow- 
ever, she may not have had knowledge of it at all. She may have 
been a victim of Communist deceit. 

Mr. Arens. May I just, therefore, ask you is there any other sig- 
nilicant item of information with reference to the Los Altos-Mountain 
View unit to which you were attached that you would like to present 
at this time before we proceed into the next unit ? 

Mr. Prussion. This particular unit existed, as I stated, during the 
Smith Act trials, and during the security measures taken by our Gov- 
ernment during that period, and as a result of tliat we had many mem- 
bers conveniently drop out of the Communist Party in that cell, to 
the extent that of approximately 40 members of the Palo Alto cell 
and the Los Altos-Mountain View cell, it had dropped to 20 with the 



COIVIMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2017 

two cells combined, showing less than one-half of the former total 
membei-ship. 

Mr. Arens. Was that a legitimate drop or a screened drop ? 

Mr. Prusston. This was a screened drop. 

^fr. Arexs. In other words, they stayed in the conspiratorial Com- 
munist Party, but gave up tlioir technical membership ; is that correct? 

Mr. Prussion. It was so stated when these people dropped out. 
They stated their reasons for this. 

Mr. Arexs. I want to conlino the testimony at the moment to the 
Los Altos group — have you any illustrations in mind where people 
resigned technical membership or were even technically expelled from 
the entity known as the Communist Party in order to accomplish a 
Communist objective, but maintained themselves to all intents and 
purposes under Communist discipline ? 

Mr. Prussion. William King resigned from that cell of the Com- 
munist Party, because, I believe, he was an electronic engineer working 
either at Sylvania or one of the local plants in the area. I don't recall 
which plant. It was precisely for this reason that he was dropped 
out of the Communist Party, so he could continue his work and retain 
contact on the upper level. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you have any notations of any minutes of a cell 
meeting in which it is revealed that the party is making a technical 
expulsion of an individual from the Communist Party so that indi- 
vidual could obtain a teaching certificate and not be subject to the 
pains and penalties of a perjury action, but maintain himself in the 
operation ? 

Mr, Prussiox. Yes ; I have such evidence. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you have it with you now ? 

]\f r. Prussiox. It is here somewhere. 

Well, I can tell you exactly what transpired and I can find the 
documentary evidence a little later. Here it is. 

Mr. Arexs. Wliat is that document you presently have in your 
hand? 

Mr. Prussiox. Well, this docmnent is a description of a typical 
meeting of a Communist cell held in Palo Alto at a time when the 
Communist Party was at its low ebb because of the Smith Act prose- 
cutions and the security measures taken by our Government. It was 
in this particular meeting that Mary Wilson made a motion to drop 
Elliott Wilson from the party since he is getting his doctor's degree 
at Stanford and is applying for a job with the State for teaching and 
wants to be able to swear that he is not a member of the Communist 
Party. 

The motion was carried and Mr. Wilson was expelled, so-called, 
from the party. 

Mr. Arex^s. Were you present at that meeting ? 

Mr. Prussiox". Yes : I was. 

Mr. Arexs. Was that process evolved for the sole and exclusive 
purpose of enabling him as a comrade to maintain himself in the 
operation without being under the impact of the law of this State 
precluding Communists from certain activities ? 

^ Mr. Prussiox. That was the purpose of the resignation and expul- 
sion. _ I don't believe Mr. Wilson has obtained a job as a teacher, 
but his activities in the area are in line 100 percent with the program 
and directives of the Communist Party. 



2048 coMMUisrisT party — northern California district 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Prussion, have we concluded the essence of the 
factual material ^Yhich you can present to this committee with refer- 
ence to this first unit before we proceed to the next one ? 

jSIr. Pkussion. Well, the evidence that I have on the first unit is 
a multitude of evidence and it is hard to recall all of the activities 
which revolved around 

Mr. Aeens. I expect to come back to specific acti\-ities respecting 
the overall operation, such as political infiltration and the like, which 
would cross both cells. 

When did you leave this first cell ? 

Mr. Prussion, It was about in 1956. 

Mr. Arens. Then in 195G were you attached to another cell ? 

Mr. Prussion. In 1956 I was attached to the Palo Alto cell of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. First of all, tell us where the Palo Alto cell func- 
tioned; tell us what it did, and who, to your certain knowledge, 
were members of the Commimist Party attached to the Palo Alto cell. 

Mr. Prussion. The Palo Alto cell met in the homes of dift'erent 
members of the cell. At times it was held at the home of Mary Field, 
other times at the home of Gertrude Adler, Doris Dawson, Mary Wil- 
son, Michael Shapovalov. 

Mr. Arens. Were all these persons to your certain knowledge mem- 
bers of the Coimnunist Party ? 

Mr. Prussion. I might at this time name the people who were 
members of this cell so that we can 

Mr. Arens. Is each and every one of these persons, to your certain 
knowledge, a member of the Commmiist Party ? 

Mr. Prussion. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Now proceed with your names, if you 
please, Mr. Prussion, and give us, if you will do so, the spelling of 
those that are difficult names, and a word of description. 

Mr. Prussion. The following members of the Palo Alto cell, which 
was a combination of the former Los Altos-]\Iountain View cell and 
the Palo Alto cell were : Estelle King, William King, Walter Harju, 
Elliott Wilson, Mary Wilson, Doris Dawson, Gertrude Adler, Isaac 
Folkoff, Michael Shapovalov, Esther Shapovalov. I believe that is 
correct. 

Mr. Arens. Were they husband and wife, or are they ? 

Mr. Prussion. Yes. Ed Ross, Belle Ross, Sara Alchermes, Ed 
Schneider, Elizabeth Nicholas, Gelsomine Becks, Ed Becks, Myra 
White, Alvin White, Isobel Cerney, and her husband, INIr. Cerney — 
I don't recall his first name; Mary Field, Holland Roberts, and 
Harvey Richards. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you attached to this particular cell ? 

Mr. Prussion. I was attached to this cell for approximately — from 
1956 until 1959. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Prussion, tell us about tlie activities of the 
comrades, and let us take up first of all the subject of political warfare 
or political infiltration. 

Mr. Prussion. At the conclusion of the presidential campaign in 
which Vincent Hallinan was defeated for president on t\\o Inde- 
pendent Progressive Party ticket, directives were received by all Com- 
munists to drop the Independent Progressive Party and to let it shift 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2049 

for itsolf, and in so doing the Independent Progressive Party was al- 
lowed to disintegrate. 

The directors also stated that all members of the Communist Party 
shonld infiltrate and become active in the election campaign of the 
Democratic Party. At that particular time the Eight to Work Act 
was a major issue upon which the Connnunists latched, and the major 
motivation they had in this campaign was to defeat Senator Know- 
land and the Right to Work Act. 

They worked diligently in the precincts as Democrats, went from 
house to house, in their efforts to defeat Knowland and to assure a 
Democratic victory. They also, of course, utilized the right-to- work 
issue, which they opposed, in their campaign efforts, 

Mr. Arexs. I would like to interrupt here to request you to make 
a point, Mr. Prussion, which we are confronted with. Did the Com- 
munist Party and the comrades who were under Communist Party 
discipline, have any sincere interest in this campaign other than to 
obtain a particular objective in a specific issue for the party? 

Mr. Prussion. There was no sincerity and there never is any sin- 
cerity on the part of a Communist in fighting for an act which is 
socially beneficial. They utilize such activity in order to, what they 
call, raise the class-conscious spirit of the working class, to intensify 
the class struggle, to gain leadership and to be able to hasten the day 
Avhen the prerequisites of the revolution are met. 

]\Ir. Arens. In other words, irrespective of the merits or demerits 
of the right-to- work legislation, irrespective of that, on which honest, 
patriotic, reasonable people could differ, the Communists penetrated 
in a political process for the purpose of benefiting the Communist 
operation itself ; is that correct ? 

]Mr. Prussion. That is correct. That was their motivation. 

The Communist Party at that time fell upon a great political oppor- 
tunity and they began to infiltrate the California Democratic Clubs 
in the area. 

There is indication that there has been similar infiltration 
throughout the State of California. The South Palo Alto, California, 
Democratic Club and the Stanford, California, Democratic Club were 
infiltrated by such people as Ed Ross, and this work was his principal 
assignment. 

Elliott Wilson was active in these, and some other individuals v,-ere 
active Communists, but I would have to modify my statements as 
to some other individuals because although they were Communists they 
did not have direct cell activity. They did not attend cell meetings- 
such people as Peter Szego. 

Mr. Arens. Spell it, please. 

Mr. Prussion. S-z-e-g-o; and Allan Isaksen, I-s-a-k-s-e-n. Allan 
Isaksen ran _ for election in the 28th Assembly District on the 
Democratic ticket. Allan Isaksen, who was a Communist at the time, 
sought and received the complete approval of the District Political 
Committee of the Communist Party before he filed to run on the 
Democratic Party ticket. 

The name of Allan Isaksen was first proposed to the section by 
Elizabeth Nicholas, who at that time was a section organizer, and 
throughout the entire campaign, if the records are unearthed through 
the press, you will find that Communists and Allan Isaksen carried 
on a continuous campaign of denying the fact that he was a Com- 



2050 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

munist, and denying the fact that the Communists had anything to 
do ^vit]l liis campaign. 

Mr. AuEXS. Do you here and no^y, while you are under oath, testify, 
under the pains and penalties of perjury, that to your certain knowl- 
edge Allan Isaksen was a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Prussion. Allan Isaksen, to my best knowledge, has never been 
seen paying dues in the Communist cell. lie has, however, in my 
presence, attended a Communist cell meeting in Palo Alto. 

Mr. Aeens. Was that a cell meeting to which only Communists were 
admitted? 

Mr. Prussion. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. That is what we described a little while ago as a closed 
party cell meeting ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Prussiox. That is correct. 

And at a future date, Allan Isaksen met with Albert Bob liindsay, 
myself, Elizabeth Nicholas and Elliott "Wilson to discuss his filing for 
candidate. Bob Lindsay is an avowed Communist of great activity. 
Elizabeth Nicholas is section organizer. 

It was agreed that we would go to the district, to a representative 
of the district office of the Communist Party, Oleta Yates, that 
evening, and get her necessary approval for Allan Isaksen to run on 
the Democratic ticket. 

Mr. Arens. Let the record be clear on a point, please. 

Did these various Communists whom you have identified and who, 
according to your testimony, were under instructions to penetrate in 
political activity, reveal to their associates in any of the legitimate 
political parties that they were under instructions to do so as members 
of this conspiratorial force known as the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Prussion. No, they did not. This would not be proper Com- 
munist tactics. Oleta Yates, whom we saw about 11 :30 in the evening, 
referred the subject of Allan Isaksen to a section committee meeting 
which was being held tliat Sunday in the city of Palo Alto in the home 
of Mary Field, and the final decision as to Allan Isaksen's running 
would be made there at that time. 

It was so made and Allan Isaksen filed to run for office at the dead- 
line, and a campaign of lie and deceit wi\s carried out, almost success- 
fully, in his campaign against Bradley in that padicular district. 

Now I would like to say something about th ^ California Democratic 
Comicil ^ aiid its local affiliales. "We all, of coui'^o, have a great res]iect 
for the Democratic Party and the Eepublican Party, or any political 
party that believes in our orderly ]^rocedure, parliamentarj' ]:)rocedure, 
of carrying out our political work. My discussion of the California 
Democratic Council is in no way meant to harm the Democratic Party, 
but only to inform it that these people do constitute a menace within 
the organization. 

I recall back in lO.^G at the Fresno Convention of the California 
Democratic Council there were approximately five Communists from 



^ The C.-iliforiiia Demncrntic Connoil. a Ptntewide orjinnizfitloTi of about 40.000 mombprs. 
Is not offlcially a part of the Democratic Party. Its membersbin Is coinposod of Individual 
DejiiocrnMc I'nrty ofJicpholdors niul nomiiiocs and cprtaiii ofiicial party nnits (County 
Central Coniniittccs and local clnbs) wlilcb bavp aflilinlpd witli It. It boUls an annual 
convention, ciidorsos candidates In primary elections, and makes platform and policy 
recommendations. Its members actively promote Its position on Issues and candidates on 
all Demecratic I'arty levels and, in this way, the Council exerts preat influene(> on the State 
Democratic Party oven though It represents only a small minority of the Democrats in 
California. 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2051 

the area who went to the Fresno Convention. At that particular 
convention, the speakers — 

Mr. Arens. Who Avere these five Communists? Do you recall? 

Mr. Pri'ssiox. Well, there was Allan Isaksen, Peter Szego, whom we 
will dwell on later, Elliott Wilson, Ed Ross— 1 just don't recall, but I 
recall there were live or six who went to that convention. 

Mr. Arens. Did they go inider Commmiist discipline ? 

]\Ir. Prussion. They \vere Communists and, therefore, under Com- 
munist discipline. There w-as a certain motivation in going to that 
convention. 

Mr. Arens. You are not, of course, suggesting that there was any 
conscious connection, any conscious softness on the part of any legiti- 
mate candidate ? 

Mr. Prussion. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Arens. You are only suggesting a penetration or an attempted 
penetration by comrades in a legitimate political party ? 

Mr. Prussion. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Prussion, I do not want this record to reflect any 
suggestion by yourself, and I am not in any sense impugning your 
motives, any suggestion or possible implication from your testimony 
that either of the two political parties, or the principal candidates of 
those two political parties, were knowingly, consciously, under Com- 
munist discipline or that there w^as any conscious ko^vtow by either of 
the two great political parties or of their candidates towuid Com- 
munist influences. That is correct, is it not ? 

Mr. Prussion. That, of course, is true. I am trying to give you a 
little example of how^ the Communist Party will use mass pressure 
tactics in order to influence the decision of a convention of that sort. 

Mr. Arens. Did the Communist Party in its attendance, or in the 
attendance of the comrades that you identified in this convention, 
make evident the fact that they, as individuals, were not bona fide 
members of either of the two great political parties, but they were in 
truth and in fact Communists ? 

Mr. Prussion. They did not. That was not known at the conven- 
tion. However, after this convention, Ed Poss reported to a section 
meeting that they had attained their end at that convention, and that 
he felt that there was enough influence there to help pressure Steven- 
son into changing his position. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting the creation or 
attempted creation by the Communists on great political issues, of 
pressui'e groups at the grassroots for the purpose of trying to get 
letters sent to Washington or to State capitals for the attaimnent of 
Communist objectives ? 

Mr. Prussion. That is day-to-day routine activity of the Com- 
munist Party, such as sending {olegrams, writing letters, principally 
trying to get resolutions passed in the different organizations of which 
they are members, in an effort to put forth the program that they 
would like to see legislated in the United States. This is ordinary 
and very usual, and part of the routine. 

Mr. Arens. In that process, I guess it is almost absurd for me to 
ask you, but do they n.iake it evident that they are members of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Prussion. No; they do not. 



2052 COMMUNIST PARTY — ^NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Arexs. Do 3-011 have information respecting the attempts of 
Communists to influence the course of government by testifying at 
congressional sessions ? 

Mr. Prussion. I have no knowledge, personal knowledge, of any 
such t<?stimony in congressional hearino-s, 

Mr. Arens. Plow do the Communists obtain the successes which 
they have in the infiltration of non-Cominunist organizations or at 
least organizations that were initially non-Communist organizations ? 

By what process can a few Communists infiltrate a legitimate non- 
Communist organization and l)i'iiig pressure to bear or bring the 
influence of the conspiracy to bear? What are the techniques? 

Mr. Prussiox. The Communists, in their infiltration work in any 
organization, although few in numbers, plan their meetings before- 
hand, they prepare questions, discussions, answers, and in that man- 
ner tliey are able to control a group that has not had similar prepara- 
tion. 

This is the general method through wliich the Communists are able 
to control many organizations that, of course, are not Communist 
organizations. 

Mr. Arens. Now we would like to explore with you Communist 
semantics. 

Do the Communists, in truth and in fact, M'ant peace as we of the 
free world interpret that term, that word "peace" ? 

Mr. Prussion. In answer to that question, Mr. Chairman, I would 
like to quote what the ofTicial Communist Party position is as taken 
from Lenin, of whom all Communists are disciples. 

I quote — and we must recall that Nikita Khrushchev recently stated 
that he will not forsake Leninism until shrimps learn to whistle, 
and this is tlic attitude of all Communists today 

Mr. Arens. What are these teachings of Marx and Lenin from 
which Khrushchev says he will not deviate until shrimps learn to 
whistle ? 

Mr. Prussion. I would like to quote Lenin, taken from his Collected 
Works, vol. XVI, p. 102 

* * * the existence of the Soviet Republic side by side with imperialist states 
for a long time is unthinkable. One or the other must triumph in the end. And 
before that end supervenes, a series of frightful collisions between the Soviet 
Republic aud the bourgeois states will be inevitable. 

I would also like to quote Lenin from Collected Works, vol. XVII, 
p. 398 

As long as capitalism and socialism exist, we cannot live in peace : in the end, 
one or the other will triumph — a funeral dirge will be sung either over the 
Soviet Republic or over world capitalism. This is a respite in war. 

Then I would also like at this time to quote — and this is a significant 
quotation — it was made by Dimitri Z. JNTaiiuilsky, who represented 
tlie Soviet Union in tlie United Nations in 1048. and at that particular 
time he was head of the Security Council of the LTnited Nations. This 
is what he taught at the Lenin School of Political Warfare in Moscow 
some years earlier. This is the school, incidentally, from which many 
American Communists have received diplomas. 

War to the hilt between communism and capitalism is inevitable. Today, of 
course, we are not strong enough to attack. * ♦ * To win, we shall need the 
element of surprise. The bourgeoisie will have to be put to sleep. So we shall 
begin by launching the most spectacular peace movement on record. There will 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2053 

be electrifying overtures and unheard-of concessions. The capitalist countries, 
stupid and decadent, will rejoice to cooi)erate in their own destruction. They 
will leap at another chance to be friends. As soon as their guard is down, we 
shall smash them with our clenched fist. 

Ml*. AnENS. Mr. Piiission, do you have :vn illustration or two of a 
peace front created by the Communists or controlled by the Com- 
munists? 

]\Ir. Prussion. Yes. Probably the most vicious and the most con- 
spiratorial, the most fraudulent piece of work done by the Communist 
Party in Palo Alto was done through the Palo Alto Peace Club. 

The Palo Alto Peace Club, in its entirety, was set up by the Com- 
munist Party. I believe it was in 19-18, at the direction of Joseph 
Stalin and the Communist International that a World Peace Congress 
was set up in Poland, and the call went out to Communists 
throughout the world to set up peace clubs and circulate the Stockholm 
Peace Petition. 

Mr. Arens. Let me interrupt you just to ask this question so you 
can clarif}' it for this record as we go along. Mr. and Mrs. America, 
like Mr. and I\Irs. Citizen any place in the world, are and ought to be 
for peace, as we understand that term, namely, a cessation of hostil- 
ities, of trancjuility and the like. 

"What in the world," Mr. and Mrs. America might well ask, "is 
wrong with the Communists or anybody setting up an organization 
which, on the surface at least, is dedicated to the attainment of that 
objective?" 

Mr. Prussiox. To the Communist Party and to communism gen- 
erally, peace means complete Communist triumph. All of the acts 
of aggression, imperialist aggression by the Soviet Union, have always 
been preceded by a campaign for peace, such as unprovoked invasion 
of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, in which hundreds of thousands 
were sent to concentration camps and thousands killed who showed 
any resistance. 

This the Communists said they did for peace, because the "capitalist 
warmongers were trying to encircle the Soviet Union." "WHien the 
North Koreans launched an attack against the South Koreans, using 
Soviet guns and tanks, this, too, the Communists called an act of peace. 

I might say that just prior to the invasion of South Korea by the 
North Korean Reds, the Communist Party throughout the world and 
in Palo Alto were circulating the Stockholm Peace Petition. 

Mr. Arexs. What is their objective? Surely we might well ask, 
reasonably, what is wrong with having an organization dedicated to 
peace, or at least ostensibly dedicated to peace? 

Mv. Prussion. The Communist Party, as I tried to explain, uses 
peace as a means of disarming, pacifying and placating the citizenry 
of a nation. During the Korean war, for example, the Communist 
Party was highly instrumental through such organizations as the 
Palo Alto Peace Club, in demoralizing the people at home as well as 
demoralizing our troops on the front lines. 

i\Ir. Willis. Will you go into the specifics of the Palo Alto Club 
and its organization. AVe would like to be informed on it. 

Mr. Prussion. I was coming to that. 

After the World Peace Congress was established by the Communist 
International and the Stockliolm Peace Petition was circulated, the 



2054 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Palo Alto Peace Club was formed. The membership of the Palo Alto 
Peace Club has been overwhelmingly Communist. 

At one particular time when they had about 04 membei^, from 40 
to 45 members were members of the Communist Part}'. At all times 
the executive board of the Palo Alto Peace Club had a majority of 
Communists on that board. Those who were not members of the 
Communist Pai'ty carried out the partj^ line reirardless. 

The Palo Alto Peace Club put out a newspaper called the Flash- 
light in the area, and it received a very broad circulation. The 
Flashlight, the official organ of the Peace Club, was the megaphone of 
the voice from the Kremlin. Through all the issues that they have 
put out, and there have been scores of issues — I think they are still 
publishing their paper — they have never deviated from the line of 
the Conmiunist International. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Pnission, during the course of your experience as 
an imdercover agent in the Communist Party, did you know as a Com- 
munist a person by the name of Doris Dawson ? 

Mr. Prussion. Yes. Doris Dawson was an active member of first, 
the Los Altos-Mountain View cell of the Communist Party, and then 
the Palo Alto cell of the Communist Party. She is a housewife, active 
in the National Association For the Advancement of Colored People, 
the Palo Alto Peace Club, the Parent Teachers Association, and pos- 
sibly a fcAv more that I have lost track of. 

]\Ir. Arens. Are her activities in this respect at the direction of the 
Communist Party in order to attempt to bring Commmiist Party 
influence into these various organizations ? 

Mr. Pkussion. That is correct. 

Mr. Athens. Did you, during the course of your experience in the 
Communist Party as an undercover agent for the FBI, know as a 
Communist a person by the name of Morris Graham? 

Mr. Prussion. Yes. Morris Graham, during the latter part of my 
membership, was section organizer. 

Mr. Arens. During the course of your experience as an undercover 
agent in the party, did you know as a Communist a person by the 
name of Don Clark ? 

Mr. Prussion. Yes. Don Clark worked as a distributor and pro- 
moter for the People's World and other so-called educational material 
that tlie Communist Party put out. 

Mr. Arens. Have you served in closed party sessions with him? 

Mr. Prussion. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist in like manner a person 
by the name of Elizabeth Nicholas ? 

Mr. Prussion. Yes. Elizabeth Nicholas is an active Communist 
who does a considerable amount of courier work, inner party courier 
work, and I believe that during the latter part of the Smith Act trials 
Elizabeth Nicholas went imderground and she wasn't seen for two or 
three 3'ears. She later showed up at cell meetings. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in the course of your experience in the Com- 
munist Party, at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, 
know as a member of the Communist Party a person by the name of 
Ed Ross? 

Mr, Prussion. Yes. Ed Poss was a member of the Communist 
Party cell in Palo Alto, a ball-bearing salesman. He is very active 



COMIMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2055 

and liiul been active in the Califoniia Democratic C'lubs in the Penin- 
sula area, lie is the iientlenian that 1 referred to when 1 was talking 
about knowledge on missiles and that sort of information. 

Afr. Arj:NS. Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that we are presently 
running considerably behind our anticipated schedule of witnesses 
here, and the fact that we have in good faith made commitments to 
some people, or at least their counsel, to be heard at various times, I 
would like, if it meets with the joleasure of the chairman, for Mr. Prus- 
sion to be temporarily excused from further testimony today so that 
we may get on with other witnesses, with the end in view^ of a resump- 
tion of his testimony on certain items tomon-ow, if that meets with 
the pleasure of the chairman. 

Mr. Willis. That procedure will be followed. 

Mr. Pkussion. Thank you. 

Mr. Willis. Call your next witness. 

Mr. Arexs. Edward Ross, please come forward. 

Mr, Stewart. Mr. Lewis, Mr. Ross' attorney, advised me that he was 
informed Mr. Ross would not be called today. He talked to Repre- 
sentative Willis about that. 

Mr. Arens. You are absolutely right. I apologize for that. He 
will be called tomorrow. 

Let me call a couple more names. 

The gentleman who just addressed the committee, would you come 
back please for a moment i 

Elizabeth Nicholas, is she likewise represented by the same counsel ? 

Mr. Stewart. I do not know. 

Mr. Willis. Thank you. 

Mr. Arens. Elizabeth Nicholas, please come forward and remain 
standing while the chairman administers an oath. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mrs. Nicholas. I do. 

TESTIMONY OP ELIZABETH M. NICHOLAS, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, GEORGE R. ANDERSEN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence and oc- 
cupation. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Nicholas. Elizabeth Nicholas, Sunnyvale. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you by this committee ? 

Mrs. Nicholas. I did. 

Mr. WiLi.TS. The witness didn't state her occupation. 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Willis. You asked for the occupation, and she didn't desig- 
nate it. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly tell us your occupation ? 

Mrs. Nicholas. Well, I can start out that 1 have been a prune 
picker, an apricot cutter, a cannery worker, a dry fruit worker, a 
houseworker, by the hour, and now I am an assistant cook. 



2056 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Arexs. Have you had any other principal occupation in the 
course of your career ? 

(The witness conferred with her counseL) 

Mrs. Nicholas. Tliose are the occupations that I have usually 
followed. 

]\Ir. Arens. Have you been a full-time functionary of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Willis. Counsel has not been identified. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. 

I will have him identified in just a moment. 

Mrs. Nicholas. I stand on my grounds of not answering on the 
first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arexs. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
wliich was served uj)on you by this committee ? 

Mrs. Nicholas. Pardon? 

Mr. Arexs. You are appearing here in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you by this committee ? 

Mrs. Nicholas. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arex'^s. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Nicholas. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself on this record. 

Mr. Ax'DERSEx, George R. Andersen. 

Mr. Arex^s. IMa'am, we would like to display to you now certain 
documents bearing the signature of Elizabeth M. Nicholas. First; 
the photostatic copy of Communist Party proxy for attendance at 
the State Central Committee meeting in Sacramento, 1940 and dated 
September 19, 1940 : 

I, Elizabeth M. Nicholas, duly qualified to sit as a member of the State Central 
Committee — 

designates a certain person named herein as your proxy. Second ; a 
copy of Communist Party appointment of members of the State 
Central Committee meeting, Sacramento, 1940, signed by Elizabeth 
M. Nicholas on the 18th day of September 1940. 

Kindly look at these two documents which will now be displayed to 
you by Mr. "Wheeler and tell this commit tee wliethor or not tliey are 
true and correct reproductions of documents signed by yourself as a 
member of the State Central Committee of the Communist Party 
in 1940. 

(Tlie document was handed to tlie witness.) 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Nicholas. The same answer. 

(Documents marked "Nicholas Exhibits Nos, 1 and 2, and 
retained in committee files.) 

Mr. Arexs. Ma'am, if you will kindly look to your left, at the gen- 
tleman seated across from you at the table, at the second desk there, 
who was just testifying and took an oatli tliat wliile he served as an 
undercover operative for the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the 
Communist Party he knew you to be a member of the Commmiist 
Party. 

Was he in error in that statement ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Aiusxs. Or was his statement correct ? 

Mrs. Nicholas. The same answer. 



COMAnJNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2057 

!Mi\ AiiExs. Are voii now, this instant, a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Nicholas. The same answer. 

Mr. Ahkxs. Mr. Cluiirman. I respectfully suo:gest that will conclude 
the stall' interroo;ation of this witne.ss. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arexs. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Donald II. Clark. 

Please come forward and remain standing? while the chairman ad- 
ministers an oath. 

Mr. "Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing by the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Clark. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF DONALD H. CLARK, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL. 

NOEMAN HOWARD 

Mr. Arexs. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Clark. My name is Donald H. Clark. My residence is Post 
Office Box 972, San Jose. Calif. My occupation is I am a civil engineer 
by profession. My work includes checking line, grade, and workman- 
ship of streets, sidewalks, and sewers, which includes occasionally 
going a little underground into sanitary sew^er lines. 

Mr. Arexs. I didn't get the last you said there. 

Mr. Clark. I w^ould like to request that the lights be turned out. 
Even though I work outdoors in the sunlight often I am not used 
to being in this third-degree atmosphere which these lights engender. 
I understand 

Mr. Willis. That is enough. 

Turn off the lights. 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Clark, you are appearing today in response to a 
subpena which was served upon you by this committee? 

Mr. Clark. Yes, sir; I am. 

Mr. Arexs. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Clark. Yes, sir ; I am. 

Mr. Arexs. Counsel, will you kindly identify yourself? 

Mr. HoAVARD. Norman How^ard, San Jose, Calif. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you know a man by the name of Karl Prussion? 

Mr. Clark. Just a minute, sir. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Clark. On the grounds of freedom of association, and on the 
ground that this question is not pertinent to my — it is not the right of 
this committee meeting here today to ask me these questions, I decline 
to reply. 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Prussion testified a few moments ago that while 
he served as an undercover agent in the Communist Party at the behest 
of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, he knew you to be a member 
of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Prussion is seated over there to your left. Was Mr. Prussion 
in error or w^as he correct in identifying you as a person who was a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

56597— 60— pt. 2 5 



2058 CORIMUNIST PARTY NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Clark. I tliink the answer that I am going to give is essentially 
the same answer I gave to the previous question. I don't believe it 
is the business of this Congress, I don't believe it is the business of 
this committee meeting today to interrogate me in that manner under 
the constitutional rights tliat I have granted me as an American 
citizen. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now, this very minute, a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Ci-ARK. I tliink, sir, that by the replies I have given up to now, 
that you know that I do not intend to cooperate with this committee, 
the composition being as it is. I could go into many statements. 
I do not intend to use this as a public forum of my beliefs. I believe 
this is not the place. My beliefs and my associations are strictly pri- 
vate, my own business, and nobody else's. 

Mr. Arens. Now, ]\Ir. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that this 
witness be ordered and directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Willis, I order you to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Clark. Excuse me for a moment for consultation with my 
counsel. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Clark. I believe there is a Constitution and I believe it says 
something to the effect of freedom of speech, and also I believe there 
is a point in the Bill of Rights regarding self-incrimination, and I 
stand on those Bills of Rights as an American citizen, as a former 
Army officer, as a citizen of this country, as a registered civil engineer. 

I do not believe you have the right to interrogate me in tliis manner 
and I stand on my rights as I declared. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time were you engaged in the 
service in the military ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Cr.ARK. I served for tliis country, I demonstrated my loyalty, 
I think, very well, for 41^ years, 27 months in the Aleutians, I faced 
willy-wa's. For your information that is a wind that blows 100 miles 
an hour or more, and I think I can face this committee. I don't want 
to face this committee. I don't feel as if I have any place here. I 
would like to stop answering right there. 

Mr. Arens. During your period of service in the military, were 
you likewise at that time under the discipline, as a member, of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Clark. Excuse me, sir. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Clark. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds 
as previously stated. 

Mr. Arens. Were you commissioned in the military or did you serve 
in a non-commissioned capacity? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Clark. I think it is a matter of public record that I was a com- 
missioned officer. 

Mr. Arens. At the time you took an oath as a commissioned officer 
to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against 
all enemies foreign and domestic, were you at that very instant a 
member of the Commmiist Party ? 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2059 

(The witness coni'ei-red witli his coujiseL) 

Mr. Clark. I decline on the same grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you know Karl Prussion? 

Mr. Clark. I believe you asked me that question already. If your 
memory is sound, 1 tliink I gave you an answer bel'ore. It shouldn't 
be necessary to interrogate me again. 

JNIr. Arens. I have in my hand a note written in your handwriting: 

Dear Kabl: Please accept my apologies for liollering at you today. It was 
incorrect using your name and questioning your judgment. 
Regards, 

Don. 

Kindly look at tluit note which is now being displayed to you by 
iMr. Wheeler and tell us, while you are under oath, whether or not 
that is the original note sent by you to a member — a person known by 
you to be a member of the Communist Party. 

( The document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Clark. Excuse me, sir. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

]Nrr. Clark. My counsel tells me I am getting too angry ; I should 
try to be more calm and collected. 

I refuse to answer on the same grounds that I used previously. 

Mr. Arens. ISIr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

(Document marked "Clark Exliibit No. 1," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, is Morris Graham. 

Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman 
administers an oath. 

Mr. Willis. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are 
about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Graham. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MOERIS GRAHAM, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

GEORGE R. ANDERSEN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 

Mr. Graham. IMorris Graham, San Jose, California. I am a welder. 

Would you mind turning off those lights ? They bother us. 

Mr. Willis. That will be done. 

Mr. Arens. Would you sit a little closer to the microphone ? I only 
got your name and — I didn't get the latter part of your response, 
although I guess the reporter got it. 

Mr. GiLVHAM. ]\Iy name is Morris Graham, and I live in San Jose, 
California, and I am a welder by trade. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by this committee ? 

]Mr. Graham. I am. 

]\Ir. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Graham. lam. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Andicrsen. George R. Andersen. 



2060 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Arens. Where were yon born ? 

(The witness conferred with his connsel.) 

Mr. Graham. I was bom in Baltimore, Maryland. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever used any name other than the name 
under which you are appearing today ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Graham. I would like to know the pertinency of that question. 

Mr. Arens. For the purpose of identification, please answer the 
question of whether or not you have ever used any name other than 
the name pursuant to which you are appearing toda}', Morris Graham. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Graham. Well, in view of the testimony of an informer here 
today, I must decline on my constitutional rights, the first and fifth 
amendments. 

Mr. Arens. When you use the word "informer,"' you use it, appar- 
ently, in a derogatory sense. Was Mr. Prussion telling the truth when 
he identified you as a person known to a certainty by him to be a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Graham. I decline on the basis of the same previous answer. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you lived in these parts ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Graham. Since 19,54. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you live prior to the time jou took up resi- 
dence here ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Graham. What period are you referring to ? 

Mr. Arens. Prior to the time that you moved to California, where 
did you live ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Graham. I must decline for the same reasons as previously 
stated. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest this witness now 
be ordered and directed to answer this question, because people can 
live any place in the United States and still be good patriots. 

I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness now be or- 
dered and directed to answer the question as to where he lived prior 
to the time that he took up residence in California. 

Mr. Graham. Before I answer that question, Mr. Chairman, I resent 
very much the remarks here by the counsel about being good Americans 
and patriotic and all of that stuff. 

Mr. Willis. Just disregard it, then. 

Mr. Graham. I resent that very much. That is just the opinion 

Mr. Arens. The reason for my statement, Mr. Chairman, was in 
order to clarify the record that the question was a proper question 
under the law. 

Mr. Graham. Thnt is an opinion of Mr. Arens about who is patriotic 
and who isn't. I have my own opinions about that. 

Mr. Willis. All right; just answer the question. It is so simple. 
Answer the question ns to where you lived prior 

Mr. Graham. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds 
as previously stated, my constitutional rights, the first and fifth 
amendments. 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2061 

Mr. Willis. You understaiul I liave ordered that you answer? 

Mr. GiLviiAM. I have declined. 

Mr. Arexs. Did you live in the State of Arizona immediately prior 
to your taking up residence in California ? 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Graham. I must decline to answer that for the same reasons 
stated. 

Mr. Arens. Were you state secretaiy of the Communist Party of 
Arizona ? 

Mr. Graham. I decline on the same basis. 

Mr. Arexs. Would you kindly look at this article fi'om the Daily 
People's World of February 21, 1942? 

"Morris Graham Certified for Phoenix Council Race. Morris Gra- 
ham, Arizona state secretary of the Communist Party, has been certi- 
fied by the Phoenix city council as a candidate for city commissioner," 
etc. 

Kindly look at that article and tell this committee whether or not 
the identification in that document of you as then-state secretary of 
the Communist Party of Arizona is true and correct. 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Graham. I decline on the same reasons previously stated. 

(Document marked "Graham Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arexs. T\^lat occupation do you have other than the occupa- 
tion which you have recited as your principal occupation? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Graham. Will the counsel be more specific? 

Mr. Arexs. Yes. Are you the section organizer of the Communist 
Party in this area ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Graham. I must decline for the same reasons as previously 
stated. I feel that when you have stool pigeons that are brought 
here 

Mr. Arexs. Do you mean by "stool pigeons" someone who is not 
telling the truth ? 

Mr. Graham. Well 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Graham. Well, I would say this, if you were asking me that 
question. You were the one who referred to him as an informer. 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arexs. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will 
be Doris Dawson. 

Please come forward and remain standmg while the chairman ad- 
ministers an oath. 

Mr. Axdersex. Counsel, am I in the same situation on this witness 
as in the preceding witness ? 

Mr. (Xorman) How\\rd. You are. This is one of Mr. (Joseph) 
Lewis' clients and he is at the ball game. 

Mr. Arexs. We will take her tomorrow when he is able to be here. 

Mr. Archie Brown, please come forward and remain standing while 
the chairman administers an oath. 



2062 COMIHUNIST PARTY — ^NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Andersex. Again we apparently have a problem. I communi- 
cated with Mr. Brown — as a matter of fact, I had lunch with Mr. 
Brown — and I told him what the committee told me, and he said, "I 
wil be there," he says. "I always respect an order of Congress." 
That was his reply. 

But when he came back here, I think he was wet by a fire hose and 
he was refused admission here. I haven't seen him since. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Wheeler, would you kindly request the officers there 
to announce in the hall he is being paged ? 

Counsel, I wonder if it would be convenient for you to come back 
toward the microphone. 

Mr. Andersen. I would prefer it if the lights were off. 

Mr. Willis. We will have them turned off. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindh^ accommodate the committee by noti- 
fying Mr. Brown that he has again been called for appearance here? 
If you have lunch with him tomorrow, we will take him tomorrow 
afternoon, or if you see Mm or are in contact with him. It is the 
position of the committee that he is under a continuing subpena and 
he has not been formally excused from attendance at these sessions. 
If you will do that, it will be an accommodation to us. 

Mr. Andersen. Pursuant to that, may I address the Chair ? 

He has tried twice to my knowledge to get into this room and each 
time he has been refused the right to get into the room. If your 
subpena means something, it at least should amount to as much as 
these little white cards you gave. 

I am going to tell the committee this : Unless they let him in that 
door, tlie next time he comes there with me, I am going to tell him then 
to go home, if he wishes to. 

Mr. Arens. If you anticipate any particular time when he might 
be here, just let us know and we will be certain that he is admitted 
into the hearing room to testify. 

Mr. Andersen. "\^niat time do you want him here tomorrow ? 

Mr. Arens. We will take him any time he shows up. 

Tlie next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be Mr. Martin 
Ludwig. 

Kindly come forward and remain standing while the chairman ad- 
ministers an oath, 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand to be sworn. 

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Ludwtg. I do, 

TESTIMONY OT MAETIN LTJDWIG, ACCOMPANIED BY COTJNSEL, 

GEORGE R. ANDERSEN 

Mr. Arens, Kindly identify yourself by unme, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Lfdwig. Martin Ludwig. I live at 1601 Diamond Street. I am 
a clerk. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon vou by this committee? 

Mr. Ludwig. That is right. 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2003 

ISfr. Arexs. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Lui^wiG. That is rio-ht. 

Mr. Arens. (^ounsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Andersen. George Andci'scn. 

yiv. Arens. Where and when were you born, sir? 

(The Avitness conferred witli his counsel.) 

Mr. LuD\viG. I was born March 1^8, 1918, in Brooklyn, New York. 

Mr. iVRENs. How long did you live in the East before you came out 
to the Coast? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mv. LtmwiG. Fp to about 1940, 1 believe. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you educated, please? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

]\Ir. Lfdavio. Xormal elementary school, high school, and a couple 
of years of college back East. 

]\[r. Arens. I didn't get the last. 

Mr. LuDwiG. A couple of years of college back East. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Mr. LuDWiG. On the first amendment and on the fifth amendment, 
I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Ludwig, I have in my hand a copy of a letter 
addressed to the National Committee of the Communist Party of the 
United States in which the authors of the letter, and I will be glad to 
show it to you if you want to — I think you know about the letter, or, 
in fact, I am sure you do — in which the authors of the letter make 
certain criticisms of the Communist Party as a formal entity, certain 
of its planks and programs. 

This letter is dated March 26, 1958, in which the authors of the 
letter do not submit by a fair characterization a resignation, but say 
"we are leaving the Communist Party," and then they, in the letter, 
set forth a program of activity to carry forward the program of the 
formal entity known as the Communist JParty. 

Among those persons who ai'e signatories to this document from 
northern California appears the name Martin Ludwig. 

I am corrected by our investigator. It appears as the name 
"Martin," and our investigating techniques have caused us to con- 
clude that the Martin is yourself, Martin Ludwig. 

Kindly look at this document while it is being displayed to you and 
tell this committee whether or not that is a substantially correct repro- 
duction of an original letter — I say substantially correct because it is 
typewritten, and we understand the original letter may not have 
been — an original letter signed by yourself and others on the date 
indicated in 1958, addressed to the National Committee of the Com- 
munist Party of the United States. 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Ludwig. ]\Ir. Director, my answer to that is the same as the 
previous answer. I am standing on the first amendment 

Mr. Arens. Could you raise your voice or speak a little more 
slowly, please? 

]\Ir. LmwiG. I am speaking directly into the mike and I said my 
answer is the same answer as the previous answer, on the first and 
fifth amendments. 



2064 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

(Document marked "Ludwig Exhibit Xo, 1,'' and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Lndwig, let me make a statement to you, if you 
please, sir. 

Under the law, there is what is called an immunity statute, pur- 
suant to which this committee can set in motion legal proceedings 
which, if consummated, liave an ultimate result of granting im- 
munity to a witness, immunity from any criminal prosecution for 
certain factual material which he might reveal in testimony. 

It is the judgment of this committee that you, sir, having been a 
leader, so we are advised by unimpeachable sources, having l)een a 
leader of a dissident group within the Communist Party, have infor- 
mation which would be of extreme value to your Government, via 
this committee, in its attempts to legislate on Communist activities, 
attempting to protect this country under whose flag you and I both 
have protection against the onrush of the Communist conspiracy. 

It is our information, sir, that at one time you were, until 1957, 
at least, very active as a regional representative in the Commimist 
Party itself, and that under leadei-ship of yourself and others a dis- 
sident group has been developed within the Communist operation. 

We say quite frankly we know very little about it, except we think 
there is very significant information there which ought to be available 
to this committee. 

With that explanation, I ask you this question in all sincerity: If 
this Committee on Un-American Activities should initiate the pro- 
ceedings to grant you a complete immunitv from criminal prose- 
cution based on any information, direct or collateral, which you could 
give this committee in the course of testimony to serve your Govern- 
ment, and if those proceedings are consummated so that you are 
granted such immunity, would you accept that immunity and would 
you then testify fully and freely res])pcting nil items of information 
on which we might interrogate you within the purview of this com- 
mittee's jurisdiction ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Ludwig. Mr. Director, after consultation with my attorney, I 
would sus:2:est that vou consult with him after vou make up vour 
decisions. 

Mr. Arexs. You see why we haven't. We would not want to initi- 
ate such proceedings and cai'i-y it through to an ultimate conclusion, 
if possible, an immunity for yourself, unless we had some indication 
from yourself. 

Of course, I am not personally in a position to make any commit- 
ments for the committee. The committee is autonomous and I only 
work for the committee. We could not make any commitments unless 
we had some indication from yourself that if you were granted a com- 
plete immunity from criminal prosecution for any information which 
you might supply to this committee, directlv or indireotlv, you would 
accept the immunity and you would testify fully and freely on all 
items of information on which you might be interrogated within the 
jurisdiction of this committee. 

Mr. Wtt,tjs. Yon understand, of course, that that interrogation 
could not be done today or anvthing of that sort. The proceedings 
would have to be initiated, if that relieves you any, or if you want to 
think about it. 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2065 

( Tlie witness conferred witli his counsel.) 

Mr. LuDwiG. Mr. Staff Director, I am liere under subpena. I 
^ould never voluntarily appear before such a committee 

Mr. Arens. Could you speak a little more loudly or slowly ? 

Mr. LuDAviG. I said I am here before this committee under sub- 
pena. I would never have appeared here or anywhere else unless I 
were under subpena. I think that answers your question. 

Mr. Arens. It does answer our question. 

I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will conclude the staff 
interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arexs. The next witness, if the chairman please, will be Mr. 
William Mandel. 

Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman 
administers an oath. 

^Ir. Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give to 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Maxdel. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM MANDEL, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

BERTRAM EDISES 

^Ir. Arexs. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Maxdel. My name is William Mandel. I live at 233 Lake 
Drive. Berkeley. By occupation, I am a translator of scientific mate- 
rial, a lecturer, a leader of travel tours, an author, radio and tele- 
vision commentator, and have been a newspaperman at various times 
until committees such as this made it difficult for me to continue in 
some of these fields. 

Mr. Arexs. I will say not facetiously but in earnpRt appraisal that 
you liave certainly engaged in a number of activities. 

You are appearing today in response to a subpena which was served 
upon you by this committee ? 

Mr. ^Iaxdel. I do. 

Mr. Arexs. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Maxdel. I am, to the degree that a counsel not able to speak 
for me can represent me. 

Mr. Arexs. Would you kindly identify yourself, Counsel? 

!Mr. Edises. Bertram Edises, Berkeley, California. 

Mr. Maxdel. By the way. if the television people want some news, 
they can put the lights on. They can put them on if they want some- 
thing to show their audiences. 

Mr. Arexs. Do I understand you want the lights on ? 

Mr. Maxdel. I want the lights on, precisely. I want the fullest 
glare of publicity on this committee's activity. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed. 

Mr. Arexs. Where and when were you born, please, sir ? 

Mr. Maxdel. I was born in New York City, June 4, 1917. 

Mr. Arex's. Give us a word about your education. 

Mr. !\L\xdel. I was educated in the public schools, junior high 
schools and high schools of New York City. I had one semester in 



2066 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN" CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

biochemistry at the age of 14 at the University of Moscow, U.S.S.R. 
1 specify my age so no nonsense about the Lenin School can be asked 
of me. I then had one year at City College in Xew York. I was qx^- 
pelled for opposition to military training in 1933 at age 16. In 1947, 
the Hoover Institute at Stanford University engaged me as a fellow 
at post-doctoral stipend on the basis of two books I had written for 
the specific purpose of compiling an encyclopedia of the U.S.S.R. 
This is my education. 

Mr. Arexs. Are you now, or have you ever been, a meml>er of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. IVIandel. Sir, I am 42 years of age, and have never had to face 
a jury as defendant or grand ']UTy as witness in my life. My research 
and writing have been so public that two committees similar to this 
one, the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee and the McCarthy 
committee, subpenaed me as far back as 8 and 7 years ago, respectively, 
for having written a book titled "The Soviet Far East and Central 
Asia." No indictment resulted from those hearings either, or from 
my continued public speaking or writing since that date. 

Clearly, therefore, I have committed no crime under any of the laws 
of this coimtry and am not engaged in subversion. Consequently, I 
refuse to testify on the grounds that, as a radio and TV public affairs 
broadcaster, activity in those capacities today, the subpena issued to 
me interferes with the rights of my stations to schedule formal pro- 
grams on their merits and is thus a direct violation of the first-amend- 
ment guarantee of freedom of speech and of the people's right to hear. 

Further, as a scholar with a 20-year record of research in public 
writing and lecturing in my chosen field, the study of the Soviet Union, 
a field admitted bv all to be one of which this country is in vital need 
of knowledge, I refuse to testify on the grounds that the subpena is a 
violation of freedom of inquiry, which can only be expressed through 
the free speech and free press guaranteed in the first amendment, to 
the academic community as to all others. Lastly, I certainly shall not 
answer questions representing allegations against me made by persons 
not present and not identified, whom I cannot confront and whom my 
lawyer cannot cross examine as to their truthfulness. 

To rest my case solely on the first amendment would, as 36 cases now 
in the courts show, condemn me to years of court action at enormous 
costs. It would cost me my home and impoverish my famiW for a 
very long time to come, which, of course, is what this committee desires. 
Therefore. I also refuse to testify under my right not to be a witness 
against myself, a right originated to protect the innocents. The 
guilty can be convicted by the testimony of others if there is any real 
evidence to present. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told tliis com- 
mittee truthfully while you are under oath whether or not you are now, 
this instant, or ever have been, a member of the Communist Party, you 
would be supplying information which might be used against you in 
a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Maxdel. Honorable beaters of children and sadists, uniformed 
and in plain clothes, distinguished Dixiecrat wearing the clotliing of a 
gentleman, eminent Republican who opposes an accommodation with 
one country with whom we must live in peace in order for all of us and 
our children to survive, my boy of 15 left this room a few minutes ago 
in sound health and not jailed solely because I asked him to be in here 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2067 

to learn soniothiiiir about tlio procedures of the Ignited States Gov- 
ernment and one of its committees. Had he been outside where the 
son of a friend of mine had his head s[)lit by tliese goons operating 
under your orders, my boy today might have paid the penalty of per- 
manent injury or a ])olice record for desiring to come here and hear 
how this committee operates. 

If you think tliat I am going to cooperate with this collection of 
Judases, of men who sit there in violation of the United States Con- 
stitution, if you think I will cooperate with you in any way, you are 
insane. 

Mr. "Willis. Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. .VitENS. Now, sir, were you a lecturer — (Applause). 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. ^NTaxdel. Yes, sir. I was. And I lectured on Shostakovich's 
oratorical "Song of the Forest"; what do you know about that? 

Mr. Arens. And were you at that time a member of the Communist 
Party and did yon lecture as a Communist ? 

Mr. Makdel. As I told you before, sir, if there are laws on the books 
of this country under which any of the activities in which I have 
engaged, publicly and openly — and I would be delighted to bring 
you a list of books literally this long, which either I have written or 
which have been cited as authority in books written years later in 
other countries, or journals to which I have contributed, if any of this 
public record, almost all of it scholarly by anybody's clefinition, is to 
be regarded or were regarded by anyone as criminal activity, there 
are laws on the books under which the proper authorities of the United 
States could have taken, or could now take, action against me. 

I have never disappeared in my home. I have been available at all 
times. This question has no purpose other than to harass me. When I 
was asked this question last in 1943 by the late Joe McCarthy, and let 
me say that I am honored when people come up to me on the streets — 
perhaps I don't deserve this honor — and say, "You are the man who 
killed Joe ]\rcCarthy," because I happened to appear on the first day 
of the bookburning matter and I did my best to conduct myself in the 
manner I am conducting myself today. If there was any such evi- 
dence against me under any law, the proper authorities could move 
against me. This body is improperly constituted. It is a kangaroo 
court. It does not have my respect. It has my utmost contempt, and 
I am not going to answer that question, sir. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting the operations of 
the criminal conspiracy dedicated to the overthrow of this Govei-nment 
by force and violence, which criminal conspiracy is represented on 
American soil in part by that entity known as the Communist Party? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Maxdel. My answer is "No, sir, and no matter how many ways 
you ask that question, it will remain the same." 

Mr. Arens. Do you have present information respecting the activ- 
ities of the Communist Party in northeastern California ? 

Mr. Mandel. Would you kindly define what you mean by present 
information, sir? Do you mean do I read books or newspaper? I 
read books and newspapers. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know from personal experience in closed Com- 
munist Party meetings the identification of persons who, to your 



2068 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

certain knowledge, are now, or in the recent past have been, members of 
the Communist Party active in northern California ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Mandel. My answer is "No, and if I did I would not tell you." 
But my answer is "No." 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Mandel. You got that answer before. 

Mr. Arens. I asked you 

Mr. Mandel. You got that answer before. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be 
ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether or not he is 
now a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Mandel. If you will look at the record of my statement, you 
will find that that statement covered this question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now 
be ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether or not he 
is now a member of the Communist Party, 

Mr. Willis. This is a specific question on that point that has not 
been technically asked and I order you to answer it. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. INIandel. It is very fortunate that I have an attorney who seems 
to think about these things just as I do. I am very honored. This 
question is an invasion of my political privacy. I answered it at the 
outset, and no matter how many tricky forms you take to pick it again, 
you will get that same answer. It has been answered. 

Mr. Arens. Does the record reflect a clear direction that you have 
been directed to answer that question as to whether or not you are 
now, this instant, a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Willis. I think you meant to indicate that you are declining to 
answer for the reasons previously indicated. 

Mr. Mandel. Yes, that is correct. 

Mr. Willis. That is what I understood you to say. 

Mr. Mandel. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. That is all we wanted to know. 

Thank you, sir. 

We have no further questions, Mr. Chairman, of this witness. 

Mr. Wn.LTS. The witness is excused. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, will be Mr. Jack 
Weintraub. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give to 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help vou 
God? 

Mr. Weintraub. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JACK WEINTRAUB. ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

GEORGE R. ANDERSEN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occu])ation. 

Mr. Weintraub. Would you mind turning off the lights? I have 
been staring at them all afternoon, and all morning, too. 

Mr. Willis. All right. 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2069 

( The Avitnops conferred with his counseL) 

Mr. AVkixtraiti?. My name is Jack Weintraub. I live at 8f)37 San- 
tiajro Street, San Francisco. My occupation is driver, truck driver. 

]\rr. Arexs. You are a]>pearinir today in response to a subpena wliich 
was served upon you by this committee ? 

^rr. "Wetxtraitr. Tliat is correct. 

!Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. "WriXTRArn. I am advised by counsel. 

]\rr. Arexs. Do vou have counsel seated next to vou there? 

]\f r. WetxtR;\ub. That is true. 

Mr. Arexs. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Ax'dersex. Georofe Andersen. 

Mr. Arexs. Where and when were you bom, please? 

Mr. TVeixtraub. I was boni in Bronx, New York, November 13, 
1916. 

Mr. A REX'S. And gfive us a word, please, about you formal education. 

^Ir. Weix^traub. Just a moment. I would like to consult with my 
attorney. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Weixtraub. I went throug-h grammar school, high school, and 
completed one year of university, a year and a half of university. 

Mr. Arex^s. Did you receive any other training? 

Mr. Weixtratjb. Repeat the question, please. 

!Mr. Arex^s. Have you received any other training since the com- 
pletion of this formal education which you have described to us? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Weixtraub. What do you mean? Would you explain that, 
please ? 

Mr. Arexs. Have you attended any other schools ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Weixtraub. Do you mean another college? 

Mr. Arexs. Any other schools besides the formal training which 
you have just now described to us ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Weixtraub. Would you specify what kind of schools do you 
mean ? 

Mr. Abens. Yes. Have you been a student at the California Labor 
School? 

Mr. Weixtraub. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Arexs. Over what period of time did you receive instruction 
at the California Labor School ? 

(The witnass conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Weixtraub. The Government paid my tuition there under the 
GI bill of rights. It is a matter of record. 

Mr. Arens. When ? 

Mr. Weixtraub. I would say about a year, between 1946 and 1947. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Vern Bown ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Weixtraub. I would refuse to answer that question on the 
basis that I should have a right of association ^laranteed to me under 
the Constitution, by the first amendment, without saying yes or no 
whether I know him. I would answer that about anybody that you 
ask me. 



2070 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

^Ir. Arkns. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now 
be ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether he knows 
a person by the name of Vem Bown. 

Mr. Willis. I direct you to answer that question. 

( The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Weixtraur. Furthermore, the Constitution protects me with 
the fifth amendment as well. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this com- 
mittee whether or not you know a person by the name of Vern Bown 
you would be supplying information that might be used against you in 
a criminal proceeding ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Weintraub. I have already answered. 

Mr. AJrens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now be 
ordered and directed to answer this last outstanding principal question 
which is for the purpose of testing his good faith in invoking the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Willis. It is a perfectly proper question. You are directed to 
answer it. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. WEiN'ruAUB. I refuse to answer it on the grounds of the fii-st and 
fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. It is the information of this committee, sir, that you 
were a section leader of the AFL Section of the Communist Party 
at the time that Vern Bown was expelled from that section, and 
were one of those who was engaged in raising a protest with the 
National Committee of the party respecting this expulsion. For 
the purpose of this record, I ask you now : Were you, at the time of 
the expulsion of Vern Bown from the AFL Section of the Commu- 
nist Party, yourself, a member of the Communist Party active in the 
AFL Section? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Weintraub. Mr. Arens, before I give my answer I would like 
to preface it with the reason why I am giving my answer. I con- 
sider this committee to be in the same stripe as other governmental 
agencies such as, for example, the McClellan committee, which sup- 
posedly was investigating both labor and management, and managed 
to investigate only labor basically, and the monitors investigating the 
teamsters or taking over the control of the teamsters under the di- 
rection of Judge Letts, and the Kennedy-Landrum-Griffin bill which 
is anti-labor legislation. I have not run into any governmental 
agency of this stripe which is pro-labor or which gives labor a fair 
shake. 

I think if labor were to get the fair shake that it deserves, this com- 
mittee would not be in existence. For example, in Louisiana, if the 
people down there were organized, they would have the right to vote. 
I don't think they have tliat complete ri^ht. I am not going to co- 
operate with this committee. I feel that tliey are out to hang me, they 
are out to ruin me, if possible. But this is just a by-product of their 
general anti-labor trend. Therefore, I invoke the fifth amendment 
again. 

]\Ir. Arens. In order that we can help probably clean out 
Communists 



CO^SEVrUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2071 

Mr. Willis. I will say this, Mr. Arens, at least he was kinder than 
the others by saying he does not think somethini^ about votin<5 rit^hts 
in my district, lie did not char<>:e it as nnduly and as harshly as 
others. But I might now say for the record tliat they do vote. 

Proceed. 

Mr. "Wfjxtraur. Congressman "Willis 

]Mr. A\'iLLis, 1 do not want to debate. 

Mr. Weixtkaub. I wish to ask a question. 

Mr. Willis. I do not want to debate. 

Please proceed. 

Mr. Arexs. Are you now, this instant, a member of the Connuunist 
Party? 

^fr. Weixtkaub. The same answer as to the previous question. 

;Mr. Akexs. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the stati' interrogation of this witness. 

The next witness, if j'ou please, Mr. Chairman, will be Mr. John 
Andrew Negro. 

Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman ad- 
ministers an oath. 

]Mr. Willis. Kindly raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you are about to 
give to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mr. Negro. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN ANDREW NEGEO, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, GEORGE R. ANDERSEN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Negro. ]My name is Andrew Negro. INIy residence is 450 Clip- 
per Street, and I say that knowing that within that audience there 
is a group liere for tlie purpose to intimidate my family and myself. 
I say that also knovring that the same person has intimidated two 
people here, threatening to kill them, murder them. You are respon- 
sible by taking me here and putting my family in jeopardy so crack- 
pots like that can exist. 

My occupation is a house painter. 

Mr. Arexs. You are appearing today, Mr. Negro, in response to 
a subpena which was served upon you by this committee ? 

Mr. Negro. In reluctance. 

Mr. Arexs. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Negro. I am represented by counsel but he cannot speak. 

Mr. Arex^s. Counsel, will you kindly speak up and identify yourself 
before this committee ? 

Mr. Andersex'. This is hardly speaking, but my name is George 
Andersen. 

Mr. Arens. Now, sir, have you ever been engaged in seamen activi- 
ties of any kind, waterfront activities ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. Yes, I have been a seaman. 

Mr. Arex's. Over what period of time were you a seaman ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. Approximately 7 or 8 years. 



2072 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Arexs. Could you orive us those years, please, roughly ^ 

(The "witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. To my recollection it was 1942 to 1950. 

Mr. Arens. And in what capacity did you serve as a seaman? 

Mr. Negro. As a seaman, I sailed in the capacity of messman, ordi- 
nary seaman and able-bodied seaman. 

Mr. Arens. What year was it that you were no longer a seaman? 
When did you depart from that activity ? 

Mr. Negro. Do you mean Avhen I stopped sailing ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Just your best recollection. 

Mr. Negro. 1950, around 1950. 

Mr. Arens. What caused your disassociation from the seaman's 
vocation or occupation ? 

(The witness conferred with his coimsel.) 

Mr. Negro. I got hurt, injured on a ship. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have seaman's papers during all of the time 
of your employment as a seaman on vessels ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. I always had seaman papers at the time that T sailed. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever have your seaman's papers lifted or 
denied ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. No, they were not. 

Mr. Arens. And then what was your principal occupation after 
you concluded your service as a seaman ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. I went into the Army of the United States. 

Mr. Arens. During your service as a seaman on vessels, what vessels 
did you sail on, the nature of the vessels ? Were they merchant ves- 
sels or what were they ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. I sailed on many kinds of vessels. I don't see where 
this is pertinent to this hearing here. 

Mr. Arens. During the course of your work, or during the period 
of vour service on vessels, were you a member of the Communist 
Party? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. Would you turn out these lights here? They are blind- 
ing. They give the business of a third degree. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. Would you repeat the last question ? 

ISIr. Arens. Yes. Kindly tell this committee if, during your period 
of service as a seaman on the vessels, at any time you were a member 
of the Communist Party. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. I would like to make a statement about that. In a 
sense, I would like to read what Jimmy Roosevelt said before the 
House of Congress, and my conviction is tliat the House Un-American 
Activities Committee is closer to being dangerous to America in its 
concepts than most of what it is investigating. My conviction is that 
it is continuing discredit to the country and more immediately to this 



COM]MUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIPORNIA DISTRICT 2073 

House. My conviction is that so long as we continue its existence we 
must equally share the guilt for the evil for which it does. It has 
been an agency for the destruction of human dignity and constitu- 
tional rights. AYo have been accustomed to think of tliose whom it 
subpenas and labels as victims rather than witnesses. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the only response you care to make to the 
question as to whether or not you were a member of the Communist 
Party during your service on these vessels? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

]NIr. Negro. I use the first amendment because you have no right to 
interfere with my private life, and also the fifth amendment. 

]\Ir. Arexs. Were you a member of the Communist Party during 
^•our service in the military ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. The same answer. 

]\Ir. Arens. Are you now, this instant, a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Negro. Same answer. 

IMr. Arens. Now, sir, when you were served with your subpena to 
appear before this committee, the 18th day of April — excuse me, the 
27th day of April, 1960 — did you thereafter at any time prior to your 
appearance here today meet wdth persons known by you to be mem- 
bers of the Communist Party for the purpose of receiving instructions 
as to the conduct which jow and others were to indulge in in regard to 
this committee and this hearing ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. This question is intimidating and you are attempting 
to intimidate me. You, sir, are a disgrace to the American people. 
You are responsible for the demonstrations that take place outside. 
You have time to time called these demonstrations of students who 
wish for the question of democracy, who have come to witness de- 
mocracy, you have called it treason. I will not cooperate with this 
type of a committee. My answer is the same as the previous, the 
first and fifth. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been in session regarding the conduct of 
yourself and others in regard to these hearmgs, with international 
Communist agent, Frank Wilkinson, who sits in the front row of 
these hearings today ? 

]Mr. Negro. You are disgraceful in your accusations of accusing 
people that you don't even have on the stand, with the ability to defend 
themselves. The same answer, the first and fifth. 

Mr. Arens. To your certain knowledge, were these demonstrations 
which have been taking place encouraged by persons known by you 
to a certainty to be members of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. Sir, I have been sitting in this room since the time I 
came in this morning. From my knowledge, the students wanted to 
enter this place here and see what was taking place. You are the 
cause for the heads that are broken, you are the cause for the backs 
that are broken or any other things that happened to these students. 
You are the cause of it. By entering this city of San Francisco you 
are the cause of it. These students showed their will and love for 
democracy. They attempted to preserve that right, and you, sir, 

56597— 60— pt. 2 6 



2074 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

have said time and time a^iain that those that do that are treason. 

Mr. Willis. All right, Mr. Counsel, proceed in another area. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been in session in the course of the last sev- 
eral days with Harrj* Bridges? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NrxjRO. Will you repeat that question ? 

Mr. Arens. Have you been in session in the course of the last sev- 
eral days with Harrj' Bridges? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Negro. Ridiculous question. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

]\Ir. Arens. The next witness is Sally Attarian Sweet. 

Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman 
administers an oath. 

Mr. Chairman, the reporter has indicated that lie would like to 
have a brief recess. 

Would the chairman be disposed to order a 5-minute recess? 

]\Ir. Willis. We will take a 5-minute. recess. 

(Members of the subcommittee present at time of recess: Repre- 
sentatives Willis and Johansen.) 

(At the expiration of the recess the following members of the 
subcommittee were present: Representives Willis and Johansen.) 

Mr. Willis. The subcommittee will come to order. 

Please raise your right hand. 

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mrs. Sweet. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF SALLY ATTARIAN SWEET, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, EDWAED NEWMAN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mrs. Sweet. My name is Mrs. Sally Sweet. I live in Hay ward, and 
I am a legal secretarv. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you by this committee ? 

Mrs. Sweet. I am, at my place of work. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Sweet. My counsel is present. I don't feel I am represented 
by him. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, would 3'ou kindly identify yourself on this 
record ? 

Mr. Newman. My name is Edward Newman. Mj^ office is in Hay- 
ward, Calif. 

Mr. Arkxs. How long have you lived in Alameda County ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Sweet. I would like to say that if it is true that the purpose of 
this committee and the sole purpose in })eing here today is to (^et facts 
upon which they can ])resent legislation to Congiess, then by their 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2075 

own admission tlicy have numerous facts on Avhat tlioy call nn impeach- 
able, reliable sources, many aiicnts in (he V\M, many int'ormers such 
as this thing that testilied today. Therefore, they don't need any 
additional facts. I feel, therefore, for this reason, I am not here to 
give facts. I am here to be tried, without due process of law, without 
proper representation of counsel and 1 further refuse to answer these 
questions or any questions you may have to ask me on the basis of the 
first, the fourth, the fifth, the sixth, and the 10th and 14th amendments 
to the United Stales Constitution, the entire Constitution, as w^ell as 
all the laws and statutes on our books which substantiate and support 
these amendments and laws and constitutional guarantees and the 
various court interpretations of those laws and statutes. 

Mr. W1LI.1S. What was the question ? 

Mr. Arexs. The question was how long she lived in Alameda 
County. 

Mr. Willis. You are ordered to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel. ) 

Mrs. Sweet. I stand on my previous answer, which was an answer. 

Mr. Willis. Pardon? 

Mrs. Swt:et. I said I stand on my answer, which was an answer. 

Mr. Willis. All right, if that is the advice of your counsel. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Sw'eet. I refuse to answer on the grounds I previously gave. 

Mr. Arens. Since you were subpenaed to appear before this com- 
mittee, on April 27, 1960, have you been in session with other members 
of the Communist Party as to a concerted course of action to be taken 
by members of the Communist Party who were to be interrogated by 
this committee ? 

(The witness conferred wdth her counsel.) 

Mrs. Sweet. T\Tien did you say I was subpenaed ? 

Mr. Arexs. April 27, 1960. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Sw'EET. I decline to answer on the grounds I previously stated, 
and all the grounds I previously stated. 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Chairman. I respectfully suggest that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mrs. Sw^EET. Thank you. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arexs. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will 
be Mr. Saul Wachter. 

Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman 
administers an oath. 

Mr. Edises. Mr. Saul Wachter is my client, Mr. Chairman. He 
is not here for the reason that while he was in the anteroom of tlie 
City Hall his son, Douglas Wachter, was viciously attacked and 
beaten up, also was deluged with water from a fire hose, and then was 
carted off to jail. This understandably upset his father and he is, 
therefore, in no emotional state to testify before this committee. I 
took it upon myself, observing his condition, to tell him that he ought 
to go home and not appear further this afternoon. He will be avail- 
able tomorrow if you want him. 

Mr. Arexs. Counsel, will you identify yourself on the record? 

Mr. Edises. My name is Bertram Edises. 



2076 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

!Mr. Arexs. The next witness, Mr. Chairman, if you please, will 
be Mr. Tvler Brooke. 

Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman 
administers an oath. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give to be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Brooke. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF TYLER BROOKE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

EDWARD NEWMAN 

Mr. Arexs. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. : / 

Mr. Brooke. My name is Tyler Brooke. I live in San Lorenzo. 
As to my occupation, I would like to say this : As a third-generation 
American-born citizen, I wish to state emphatically and unequivocally 
that the entire fabric of my life has been bound inextricably and dedi- 
cated to this country's democratic heritage, and that I shall continue 
in the future as I have done in the past, to urge tlie extension of its 
democratic privileges to all citizens, regardless of color or creed. I 
believe that I have been subpenaed to appear before this committee 
not because it wishes to investigate any alleged act or acts upon my 
part, but, rather, because it wishes to inquire into my thoughts, my 
opinion, my beliefs, and my associations. I believe further that this 
committee section, through subpenaing me as an individual, to stifle 
freedom of thought among other individuals, thereby imposiuj^ con- 
formity of thought upon all. This I will not permit. Since its in- 
ception, this committee has vilified and slandered, harassed and 
intimidated, assassinated character, and caused loss of employment to 
many witnesses brought before it, wliile it protected itself with the 
cloak of congressional immunity and deprived subpenas to due proc- 
ess of law to wliich all United States citizens are entitled. 

Such repugnant practices reek of star-chamber methods and other 
inquisitorial methods of the long-dead past. Since its inception this 
committee has contributed more than its share to dislocating and 
damaging our national science, arts, and profeSvSions, labor-manage- 
ment relationships, even Government enter])rise itself, by injecting 
fear and reprisal into the bloodstream of this country, fear wliich 
has given pause to many of ^Vmerica's foremost creative minds, wlio, 
facing decisions essential to the welfare of all, hesitate lest their solu- 
tions run contrary to the conformist dicta of this committee, and this 
I consider intolerable. 

Since its inception this committee has squandered millions of tax- 
payers' dollars, money which well could have been used for con- 
structive purposes, investigating into fields already proscribed for 
investigation by the Constitution. Hence, tliis committee's very rea- 
son for existence becomes suspe<'t. In view of the foregoing, I con- 
sider this committee to be an anachronism, nn alximination, nnd an 
affront to all American citizens, and I strongly urge its abolition 
forthwith. In this context T shall refuse to answer questions regard- 
ing mv thought, beliefs, opinions, nnd associations put to me by this 
committee based upon the following reasons: One, I consider such 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2077 

<jnostions to be in violation to the lirst amendment of the Consti- 
tuliou «ru;u-anteein«j^ the ri<i:ht of freedom of thou<;;ht, spewh, and 
association; two, I consider such questions to be in violation of the 
fourth amendment to the (\)nstitution o:uaranteein«r the ri<2:ht of ])er- 
sonal. security; three, I consider such questions to be in violation of 
the lifth amendment to the Constitution, and I will not permit this 
conunittee to place me in double jeopardy, to deprive me of due 
process of law, or to comix^l me to be a witness af^ainst myself; four, 
I consider such questions to be in violation of the sixth amendment 
to the Constitution guaranteeing the right of witnesses to be con- 
fronted by witnesses appearing against them, which this committee 
lias ])reviously denied; five, I consider such questions to be in viola- 
tion of the eiglith amendment to the Constitution, inasmuch as this 
committee by previous actions has inflicted cruel and unusual pun- 
ishment upon other witnesses by creating an atmosphere in which 
certain of those witnesses have been prevented from obtaining gainful 
employment as a result of their appearance before this committee; 
six, I shall consider such questions to be in violation of the tenth 
amendment to the Constitution because this committee has usurped 
powers normally reserved to the people. 

Lastly, I shall consider such questions to be in violation of the 
fourteenth, fifteenth, and nineteenth amendments to the Constitution 
because certain members of this committee are, and have been in tlie 
])ast, unrepresentative of the eligible voting population of their con- 
stituencies in those States which deny voting privileges to male and 
female persons because of their race and color. 

Mr. Arens. Does that conclude your answer ? 

Mr. Brooke. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, will you kindly identify yourself? 

Mr. Newman. My name is Edward Xewman. My office is in Hay- 
ward, Calif. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Brooke, so the record will be clear, I don't intend 
to ask you any questions about any beliefs, political activity, thoughts, 
or anything else of that kind. I want to ask you about a few acts by 
yourself. In order to do so, I would like to have a little clarification 
of your name here, please, sir. 

You are appearing today on this subpena as Tyler Brooke. Have 
you also used the name of Taylor ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brooke. I must refuse to answer this question, sir, on the 
grounds I have previously stated. 

Mr. Willis. Of course, there is no reason for you to do it if you 
don't want to do it. But just for the record, I am not advising you 
because you have a counsel, but to reflect the situation from our point 
of view, and in that I think I know what I am talking about as I 
have followed the decisions, from our point of view your apparent 
refusal to answer any and all questions, including your occupation and 
your name and so on, will probably result in a contempt citation. You 
don't have to answer tliat. I will clarify (m the record that we don't 
accept your refusal to answer on the basis of what you have given, 
'On questions along these lines. 

Proceed. 

Mr. Arexs. Xow, sir, I want to ask you about an act of yours, not 
a thought or a concept oi-aii association.^ 



2078 COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Have you, in the course of the last few years, procured a United 
States passport, on which you have traveled abroad? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

]Mr. Brooke. I shall decline to answer that question on the consti- 
tutional grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Arexs. Have you ever been outside the continental United 
States since you reached adulthood ? 

Mr. Brooke. Since what ? 

Mr. Arens. Since you reached adulthood. Have you ever been out- 
side the continental United States ? 

(The w'itness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brooke. I decline to answer that question on the constitutional 
grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Arens. We display to you now a thermofax reproduction of 
an article appearing in The Daily People's World of March 10, 1944. 
"The People take over a castle in Czechoslovakia," is the heading of 
this, by Taylor Brooke, and in parentheses is : 

Mr. Brooke, a well-known Los Angeles writer, is currently on a year's visit to 
Europe. This is the first of several articles giving his impressions of the changes 
over there — exclusively for readers of The Daily People's World. 

Kindl}'^ look at that article which Mr. Wheeler is displaying to you 
and tell this committee whether or not you are the person who 
authored that article. 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with liis counsel.) 

Mr. Brooke. I decline to answer that question on the constitutional 
grounds previously stated. 

(Document marked "Brooke Exhibit No. 1, and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I display to you now a thermofax reproduction of an 
article from the People's World of February 27, 1952, entitled "Trav- 
eller to tell of Eastern Europe," which states : 

Are the people moving toward socialism? These and other important 
questions on the People's Democracies will he discussed by Tyler Brooke, lecturer 
and writer, this Thursday at the California Labor School. 

Kindly look at that article which Mr. LeM'is is displaying to you 
and tell this committee whether or not it gives a true and coirect 
account of your appearance there as a lecturer on affairs in Eastern 
Europe. 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

(The w^itness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brooke. I refuse to answer that question on the constitutional 
grounds previously stated. 

(Document marked "Brooke Exhibit No. 2," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. At the time of your trip to Europe, did you go under 
the discipline and orders of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brooke. I decline to answer that question on the constitutional 
grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Arens. xVre you now, this instant, a member of the Communist 
Party? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



COMMUNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 2079 

Mr. Brooke. I want to preface tliis answer, sir, with a remark 
which I feel is pertinent. I am a member of the Jewish faith, and 
I am mindful of the fact of history that committees of this type, 
known as Un-Deutsche committees, presaged the rise of Hitler in 
Gennany, which ultimately led to the extermination of 6 million of 
my people. I think that I would be 

jNfr. AVn^Lis. Please come to the point. 

]\Ir. Brooke. I will, sir. 

jSIr. Willis. We have given you an opportunity to read a long 
statement that was not pertinent, was unnecessary, uninfluencing. 

]\Ir. Brooke. I don't thmk it was impertinent, sir, not a bit. 

]\Ir. Willis. Please don't burden the record. I don't want to stop 
you, but that is enough. You have a right as to how you feel. But 
it is not relevant to what we are talking about. Will you answer the 
question, please. 

Mr. Arens. The question outstanding that he has not answered, 
Mr. Chairman, is, namely, is he now, this instant, a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

]Mr. Willis. I order you to answer the question. i 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brooke. I shall decline to answer that question on the grounds, 
the constitutional grounds, previously stated. 

Mr. Arens. ]\Ir. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Abens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Elmer Jolinson. 

Kindly come forward and remain standing while the chairman 
administers an oath. 

;Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give to 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help vou 
God? 

Mr. Johnson. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ELMER E. JOHNSON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

PPvANCIS McTERNAN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

;Mr. Johnson. My name is Elmer Johnson, 529 Sausalito Boule- 
vard, Sausalito, and I am a machinist. 

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by this committee ? 

Mr. Johnson. Yes; tliey served me at work, at 9 o'clock in the 
morning. 

Mr. Aeens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Johnson. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 
^ Mr. McTernan. Francis McTernan, 703 Market Street, San Fran- 
cisco, Calif. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you lived in these parts, please, sir? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



2080 COIVUVIUNIST PARTY — NORTHERX CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 

Mr. Joiixsox. Since 1945. I came here because I like Sausalito. 

Mr. Arens. I did not get that. How long have you lived here? 

Mr. Johnson. Since 1945. 

Mr. Arens. And prior to that time you lived in Michigan ; is that 
correct ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Johnson. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. While you were in Micliigan, did you know a man by 
tlie name of Karl Prussion? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Johnson. I don't think you have any right to inquire into my 
associations. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Prussion, you have been sworn. 

Would vou kindlv stand, Mr. Prussion ? 

TESTIMONY OF KARL PEUSSION— Resumed 

Mr. Arens. During the course of your service in the Communist 
Party, in Detroit, Mich,, did you know as a member of the Communist 
Party, to a certainty, a person by the name of Elmer E. Johnson? 

Mr. Prussion. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you see that person in the hearing room today, now? 

Mr, Prussion. He is hard to recognize, he has changed so much. 
I could not certainly identify him. 

Mr. Arexs. Thank you, sir. 

We thank you, Mr. Prussion, for being so pi-ecise and so careful. 

Mr. McTernan. Will the reporter read back the exchange between 
Mr. Arens and Mr. Prussion ? 

(Record read.) 

TESTIMONY OF ELMER E. JOHNSON— Resumed 

Mr. Arexs. ]Mr. Johnson, while you were in Detroit, Mich., were you 
district organizer of the Communist Party in Detroit? 

(The witness conferred witli his counsel.) 

Mr. Johnson. I decline to answer this on the first and the fifth 
amendments, 

Mr. Arens. Wliat county do you live in, please, sir? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Johnson, Marin County, 

Mr, Arens. How long have you lived in Marin County ? 

(The Avitness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr, Arens. Where is Marin County? Are we in Marin County 
now? 

Mr. Wheeler. It is across the bay. 

Mr. McTernan. JSIarin County is across the bay. 

Mr. Arens. Thank you. 

How long have you lived in Marin County ? 

Mr. Johnson. What is the pertinency of the question ? 

Mr. Arens. The pertinency of the question is for purposes of identi- 
fication, because to our certainty, we know that an Elmei- E. Jolmson, 
living in Marin County, has been active under discipline of this 
conspiratorial force known as the Communist Party. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



COMIMTJNIST PARTY — NORTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT 208 1 

Mr. JoiiNsox. In view of (hat speecli, I decline to answer, in view 
of the first and the fifth amendments to the Constitution of the United 
StiUes. 

Mr. Arens. Are you, this minute, a member of the Connnunist 
Party '. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. JoiiNsox. Same answer. 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Chaimian, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

;Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

;^^r. Arexs. ]Mr. Chairman, I respect fully suggest, if it meets with 
the approval of the chairman, that we have arrived at a point in the 
progress of our hearing where we would like to suggest an adjourn- 
ment until tomorrow morning. 

Mr. Willis. The committee will stand in recess until tomorrow 
morning at 9:30. 

(Members of the subcommittee present at time of recess: Repre- 
sentatives Willis and Johansen.) 

(TSHiereupon, at 6:25 p.m. Friday, May 13, the hearing recessed 
to reconvene at 9 :30 a.m., Saturday, May 14, 19G0.) 

X 



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