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University of California Berkeley 

University of California Bancroft Library / Berkeley 

Regional Oral History Office 

Walter E. Packard 


With an introduction by 

Alan Temko 

Volume 2 

An Interview Conducted "by 
Willa Klug Baum 


19TO by The University of California at Berkeley 


INTERIM WORK, 1930 - 1933 

Soil Survey in the Upper San Joaquin Valley 

Packard: We came back to California in the fall of 1929 at the 
very height of the stock market crash. I was deeply in 
debt because of the complete failure of the crop in Mexico. 
I had no job or prospects of a job and was told by the 
doctor that I would be blind in a year or so as a result 
of developing cataracts in both eyes. Clara was in college 
and Emmy Lou was finishing Jr. high school and would be ready 
for college soon. The whole family was a guest of my 
brother John and his very understanding wife, Rose Marie. 
Clara dropped out of college for a year and worked as a 
stenographer in a law office in Los Angeles. For that 
year we lived in a little duplex house in a court in 
Pasadena where rents were cheap. 

I made two trips back to Mexico, riding day coach, to 
salvage what I could from my farming venture. On one 
of these trips I was paid $800.00 for making a report on 
a power project, which helped out. I was very fortunate, 
however, in getting various consulting jobs for both public 
and private agencies which carried me through the period 
from 1930 to 1935 when I joined the Resettlement Adminis 
tration. During that time I had a very successful operation 


Packard: on one eye for cataract and later, made enough money to 

pay off several thousand dollars of debts, and, of course, 
kept Clara and Emmy Lou in college. Most of my jobs came 
through professors at the University who knew that I was 
available and needed work and recommended me when jobs 
came up . 

The first assignment that I had was with the Bureau 
of Reclamation on the recommendation of Frank Adams, who 
was in charge of a study for the Bureau in the upper San 
Joaquin Valley. I was asked to review a reconnaissance soil 
survey in the area to be irrigated. I was on familiar 
ground because of my work on the Irrigation Census in the 
area in 1909 and also because Tulare County was one of the 
counties that was included in territory I supervised as 
Assistant State Leader of Farm Advisors . Furthermore, 
the soil survey work was similar to the work I had been 
doing in Mexico. I was paid $10.00 per day for the first 
month and then raised to $20.00. I felt at home again 
and began to regain a sense of security following the end 
of my Mexican experience. 

Feasibility of the Central Valley Project 

Packard: My next assignment was to make an economic analysis 
of the flow of benefits from the proposed Central Valley 
for the State Engineer. This job, like the preceding one, 


Packard: came from Frank Adams whose loyalty to me after the Delhi 
experience was extremely heartening. Dave Morgan and I 
were asked to make independent studies. Dave followed a 
procedure comparable to that used by the State Board of 
Equalization. I attempted to go beyond that by showing the 
ramifications of economic interests flowing from the applic 
ation of water to the land. Farm land values, of course, 
increased and so did land values in local and regional 
urban centers where every sort of business was stimulated 
by the increased primary production due to irrigation. 
Railroad business was materially increased, again directly 
due to irrigation. When all of these ramified benefits 
from irrigation were considered it was apparent that the 
project would benefit the state and could be paid for. 
As a result, my report was accepted as a basis for the 
economic justification of the Central Valley project so 
far as the State Engineer s office was concerned. 

Study of Underground Water for P. G. & E. 

Packard: My next assignment was with the Pacific Gas and Electric 
Company. In this case it was Professor Etcheverry who 
recommended me. The job involved a study of the underground 
movement of water in the Mokelumne River Valley. The P.G.&E. 
was being sued for alleged damage to ground water level 
resulting from P.G.&E. storage of water for power development, 


Packard: Professor Cyrus Tolman, a geologist from Stanford University, 
had made a study of conditions for the P.G.&E. but, for 
some reason which I did not understand, I was employed 
to review Dr. Tolman s report. My familiarity with the 
soil classifications in the state gave me a headstart. 
I found that the basin soils were a fine sandy loam with 
ready permeability, a fact which went directly against Dr. 
Tolman s conclusions, on which the whole theory of defense 
had been based by the P.G.&E. legal staff. 

I made an oral, preliminary report to a group of P.G.&E. 
attorneys and engineers, including Dr. Cyrus Tolman, and 
recommended that the theory of defense be reversed, a recom 
mendation which was accepted. This led to several months 
further study of conditions including a thorough study of 
ground water movements. At one time, after the flow in 
the river had been very low for some time due to storage, 
I measured the time required for the ground water to rise 
at different distances from the channel immediately following 
the release of water from storage. In making the soil 
studies I followed the practice we used in Mexico by 
digging holes at strategic places to permit a thorough 
study of the soil profile and the evidences of change in 
the ground water level. The work was inspected by represent 
atives of the U.S. Department of Soils and at one time 
Dr. Tolman brought a class of Stanford students to see what 
was being done. I thoroughly enjoyed the work and became 


Packard: quite well acquainted with the P.G.&E. office and field 
personnel, including Mr. Robert Gerdes who later became 
president of the company, who accompanied me on one of my 
field trips. Incidentally, I was paid $25.00 per day for 
this work. 

Baum: I guess I don t understand what the suit was about. The 
farmers thought their land was damaged by P.G.&E. action? 

Packard: Yes. The farmers were suing the P.G.&E. for alleged damage 
due to the P.G.&E. s control of the flow in the river. 
The case never came to trial so far as I know. At least 
I never had to appear in court. 

Baum: Do you remember Mr. Gerdes? He was just a young attorney 

Packard: Oh, yes. He was a young attorney and a very good one. 

My experiences gave me a very favorable impression of the 
P.G.&E. as an operating agency. I was a strong believer 
in public power at the time, as I have been ever since, 
but I saw no reason for not doing a technical job which had 
nothing to do with ideology. Some years later, I was 
offered another appointment with P.G.&E. which did involve 
the ideological issue but I did not take it for that reason. 

Baum: What kind of a job would that have been? 

Packard: Something in the nature of public relations which would 
have required me to promote private ownership of public 
utilities. Since I had always believed firmly that services 
which everyone must use should be run in the interests of 


Packard: the consumer, not for the benefit of private stockholders, 
I was not about to make my living by promoting a principle 
in which I did not honestly believeand in fact had opposed 
all my working life. 

Feasibility of the Columbia River Basin Project 

Packard: My next assignment was in connection with the first 
comprehensive study of the Columbia River development 
program. This came through Barry Dibble, an electrical 
engineer who had been working in Mexico when I was down 
there. He had been assigned to be in charge of the power 
study of the Grand Coulee Dam. I was employed as the 
economist by the Army Engineers to make an economic analysis 
of the whole Columbia Basin project to find out whether 
or not the project was feasible from an economic and ag 
ricultural standpoint. My office was with the Army Engineers 
in Seattle but I spent considerable time on the project 
since my assignment included making a judgment concerning 
the suitability of the soils. 

I followed the same procedure that I followed in making 
the economic feasibility study of the Central Valley 
project but carried it out in much greater detail. I had 
the advantage of having an engineer assistant who was a 
mathematical genius. I could feed data to him as though 
he were an IBM machine. I prepared a diagram to illustrate 
the written report which together provided a rather clear 


Packard: picture and appraisal of the flow of economic benefits 

growing out of the application of the water to the land. 
I submitted the whole report to Dr. Thomas Nixon Carver at 
Harvard under whom I had had a course in agricultural 
economics and received a very laudatory approval of the 
report and the method of analysis. 

Baum: In other words, the way you put this together and what 

followed out as the flow of benefits was your own ideas? 

Packard: Yes, it was. 

Baum: They didn t give you certain material that you were supposed 
to find out and put into a report. 

Packard: No. In addition, there was another Army Engineer office 

in Portland that had made economic analyses of a number of 

smaller projects lower down the river, generally involving 

pumping to high plateau areas. Although I had nothing to 

do with the preparation of those reports, they were all 

sent up to me in Seattle for my review. I went over 

them and in most cases I did not agree with the conclusions 

that were drawn. As a result a joint conference was held 

in Portland under the direction of the head of the Army 

engineers organization in the Northwest area. Although 

a categorical statement was made at the beginning of the 

hearing that all of the projects that were proposed by 

the Portland office would be considered economically justified; 

when we got through I think nearly half of them were thrown 



Packard: This whole experience was a very pleasant and profitable one 
for me. I not only got back into the sagebrush country which I 
had learned to love as a result of my early job as rodman on an 
engineering crew in Idaho in 1906, and later with my brother 
John grubbing sagebrush from an 80-acre Carey claim. I was quite 
conscious of the basic fight between the Army Engineers who had 
control of all navigable rivers and the Bureau of Reclamation 
which was responsible for the irrigation of dry lands. Both of 
these two federal agencies wanted the responsibility of developing 
the project. I personally favored the Bureau of Reclamation al 
though I was very much impressed by the efficiency of the Army En 
gineers. On an occasion when Dr. Mead, then Chief of the Bureau, 
came to Seattle on a speaking engagement I had a long talk with 
him about the project and the jurisdictional dispute. 

Baum: Wasn t that study of benefits quite different from your soil 
survey work? 

Packard: Yes, it was. 

Baum: It sounds like it needed two different men. Soil survey is a 
physical science, really. 

Packard: Yes, it is. But as it happened I was trained as a soil scientist 
and as an economist. This, together with my work in irrigation 
engineering, made me what is known as a generalist. This was an 
advantage because I could see the project problem as a whole. 
The theory of the flow of benefits was based on Henry George s 
single tax theory where the benefits of irrigation development 
are translated into increased land values. 


Packard: Emma joined me for part of the time I spent in the North 
west. I remember, quite vividly, the surprise we had when we 
called home to find out how Clara and Emmy Lou were getting along 
with the housekeeper in our home in Menlo Park. Instead of 
talking to two lonesome girls we found that they had taken the old 
car and driven to Lake Tahoe. Our concern over their supposed 
loneliness was changed to a concern over how in the world they 
could ever get the old car to Tahoe and back again. 

Before leaving this part of the story I think Emma should add 
some of her experiences on the Grand Coulee Project. (See Appendix 
for several letters that relate experiences and observations on 
GrandCoulee, Ephrata, Seattle, and Portland.) 

Study of the Effects of Cement Dust on Crops 

Packard: When I returned to California from the Northwest, I was asked 
by Professor Charles Shaw, head of the Soils Survey Department of 
the University of California, to consider a job with the Cowell 
Portland Cement Company in studying the effect of cement dust from 
the company s plant near Concord. The company was being sued by 
the farmers in the valley who claimed their crops, their land, and 
their living conditions were being damaged by the cement dust fall 
out. The areas affected were clearly defined by aerial pictures I 
had taken on a flight over the valley with a professional photog 
rapher. The prevailing wind had directed most of the fall-out in 
a triangular area lying to the northwest of the plant. I checked 
the fall-out on the ground by testing the alkalinity of the soil 
due to the lime content of the dust. 


Packard: I certainly was not happy in this job. My sympathies 
were with the farmers but I assumed the philosophy of the 
legal profession that a defendant has a right to have his side 
of the case presented. 

Baum: Weren t you already well known to be sympathetic to growers and 

Packard: I certainly was, among those who knew me. 

Baum: I am surprised the cement company would hire you. 

Packard: They did not know me. I was recommended by Professor Shaw who 
had conferred with the representative of the company. 

Baum: They didn t know who you were. , 

Packard: That s right. Max Thelen was the attorney for the company. I 
worked largely under his direction, presenting the facts in as 
favorable a light as I could. I did not deny damage, but minimized 

Baum: You just presented your findings. 

Packard: Yes. For example, there were some dead live oak trees in the dust 
area, which was presented as evidence that the dust was damaging. 
I found that the same thing was true throughout the area. Pro 
portionately there were no more dead oaks within the dust area 
than in the general area. The oaks were apparently injured by 
oak root fungus. 

Baum: Well, I ve heard that Mr. Thelen is a very competent attorney. 

Packard: Yes, he is but he is on the conservative side. 

One incident will illustrate something of the nature of the 
technical testimony involved in the case. A chemist employed by 


Packard: the farmers testified to the corrosive character of the cement 

dust. In defining the term "corrosive" he said it was character 
istic of a substance that would take hair off a dog s back and 
consume animal matter. In supporting his thesis he used phenol- 
phthalein as an indicator. When he put cement dust into a beaker 
of distilled water and then introduced some phenolphthalein the 
solution turned red. On a chance, at noon, I tested the tap 
water in the courthouse and found that it turned red when phenol 
phthalein was added. I then put a variety of soap that was widely 
advertised for use in baby baths in the water and, as I was certain, 
the solution turned very dark red. When the afternoon session was 
begm the chemist was called back to the stand by Mr. Thelen and 
asked to make the tests which I had made at noon. The results 
were, of course, the same. The bewildered chemist did not know 
what to say when Mr. Thelen asked him if the courthouse water and 
the baby soap would take hair off a dog s back and consume animal 
matter. A few minutes after he was dismissed we found him in the 
men s room testing the tap water, on the theory that we might have 
put some alkali substance into the water. 

Baum: Was it a crucial part of the case? 

Packard: Yes, to a degree. But I must admit that the defense testimony was 
a little bit tricky. I had often used phenophthalein in testing 
the alkalinity of soils. 

Baum: I don t exactly understand what the point of the chemist s testi 
mony was. 

Packard: He was trying to prove that the cement dust had corrosive qualities 
which would damage the leaves of the trees. 


Baum: And your argument was that it wasn t corrosive. 

Packard: No. I didn t say whether it was or was not. I only tried to 

show that it was not as harmful to the leaves as the chemist said 
it would be. This was supported by the fact that leaves covered 
with dust showed no corrosive effect. Moreover, I pointed out 
that the stomata -- the breathing pores of the plant -- were on 
the underside of the leaves where there was no dust. 


Packard: The dust actually was a very great nuisance and handicap to the 

farmers. While it did not kill the vegetation, it covered fruit, 
making it hard to market dirty fruit. 

Baum: You didn t put any dust on a dog. (Laughter) 

Packard: No, we didn t try to take hair off a dog s back. 

Baum: So who won the suit? 

Packard: I never saw the verdict but I assume that the company lost because 
the plant was shut down and has never been in operation since. I 
was not proud over my part in this case but it is part of the record 
and should not be passed by. 

Baum: Was there a degree of economic determinism involved? 

Packard: Yes, there was. I was paid $25 per day for field work and $50 per 
day for court work. I needed the money and incidentally, I might 
add, that during the depression, I kept Clara and Emmy Lou in col 
lege and paid over $9,000 of debts resulting from my ill-advised 
partnership with Dr. Gray in Mexico. 
Testimony in a Land Fraud Case for the U.S. Post Office 

Packard: Another job during this period was for the U.S. Post Office 
in Sacramento. The department was suing a land company from 
Minnesota that was developing property in the Sacramento Valley, 


Packard: using the mails allegedly to defraud. And, again, I had to make 
soil studies of the area and appear in court again as a witness 
for the Post Office Department. In this case there was no ques 
tion about the fact that the land was sold at a very much higher 
price than it was worth. A thin surface soil was underlaid with 
hardpan which interfered with the development of tree roots, as I 
demonstrated by an examination of the root systems of several trees 
representative of conditions throughout the area. 

Two incidents in the trial were rather dramatic and in a sense 
amusing. The first incident involved a farmer who testified for 
the company. He said, under oath, that he had made a large profit 
through chicken raising. On cross-examination he admitted that he 
had not paid any income tax that year and was turned over to the 
income tax people for further examination at the end of the trial. 
The second incident involved a soil chemist from Fresno who had 
analyzed the soils on the project for the company and found them 
to be rich in essential elements. On cross-examination he admit 
ted that he had analyzed some soil samples sent to him by the Post 
Office Department and had found them lacking in essential elements 
and in need of heavy fertilization. When the Post Office inspector 
told him that the soil sample sent to him by the Post Office were 
taken from the exact location he had described in his report to 
the company, he left the stand in considerable confusion and re 
turned to Fresno. 

Baum: How did you come out in this case? 

Packard: The company representatives tried to discredit me on the basis of 


Packard: my experience at Delhi. But, after reading a very laudatory 

personal letter from Mr. Wooster, who became Chairman of the Land 
Settlement Board after the departure of Dr. Mead, no further at 
tempts were made to destroy the nature of my testimony. I never 
found out how the case ended. 

Water Studies in Owens Valley for the City of Los Angeles 

Packard: Another assignment during this period involved the development 
and presentation of testimony regarding water conditions in Owens 
Valley. The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power was being 
sued for damages due to the effect of the Los Angeles aqueduct upon 
surface and ground water conditions in Owens Valley. I made a re 
connaissance survey of conditions as I found them, including tests 
of water holding capacity of divergent soil patterns and a study of 
the effect of water shortage on the crop pattern. I again found 
myself working with Dr. Tolman of Stanford University, who was 
serving as geologist for the city. I was paid $50 per day for my 
work in this case. 

During this period I took four days off to speak at an annual 
meeting of the California branch of the American Society of Civil 
Engineers in San Francisco, where I presented an economic diagram 
illustrating my view of the economy. At that time I was formulating 
my consumer- labor theories of economic organization. Strangely 
enough I was offered a lucrative assignment by the Chief Engineer 
of P.G. & E. which I could not take because it ran contrary to my 


Baum: You were just called in to give your expert testimony and then 
you were finished? 

Packard: Yes. But the experience gave me an opportunity for comparing the 
Los Angeles Department of Water and Power with P.G. & E. I saw 
no difference in efficiency and technical competence. The men I 
worked with in both organizations were equally dedicated. The 
difference is in the basic philosophy. One seeks to maximize 
profits to stockholders. The other seeks to promote the interest 
of the ultimate consumer. However, further experience in later 
years showed me that the administrative representatives of the 
public interest do not always support the basic philosophy, a fact 
which I will comment on later on. 

Baum: How about the Bureau of Reclamation? Was that technically good? 

Packard: It is difficult to give a categorical answer to that question. 

From a purely technical standpoint, the answer is yes. I found, 
on repeated occasions, that prominent private engineering corpora 
tions used the Bureau of Reclamation standards and designs as guide 
lines in both planning and design of reclamation projects. But my 
experience with borrowed Bureau of Reclamation engineers under the 
Marshall Plan in Greece was disappointing. But this disappointment 
reflects a general conclusion that I have reached that engineers 
as a class tend to be socially illiterate, a fact which I will com 
ment on at further length in later chapters. 

Emma accompanied me on the trip to Owens Valley where she made 
contact with individual residents of the Valley who told her of 
their experiences. She also had long conversations with the judge 





Packard : 


in the case who was a strong believer in astrology. 
Just what were his ideas? 

This trip to Independence was a wonderful vacation for me as we 
stayed for a month or so at the hotel in Independence where I had 
time for reading and sightseeing. A movie company worked on loca 
tion in the magnificent scenery in the High Sierras west of the 
narrow Owens Valley and we saw a bit of scene-taking. 

The trial was being held at the county courthouse and both 
sides were stopping at the same hotel, but eating as groups at dif 
ferent tables. Following dinner one evening, I found an official 
magazine of some astrology organization on the lobby table and com 
mented to the judge about it, only to find that he was an interested 
supporter of the "science of astrology". The subject has interested 
me for a long time because of the very long tradition and history of 
the subject from ancient Egypt to the present time, but I believe 
that a "curious unbelief" is my main reaction to it. However, I 
have found many other highly intelligent people who also are "true 
believers" of astrology, so I am still curious. 1 

During your consulting days, did you do one job and then another or 
did various jobs overlap? 

Usually I did one job at a time but sometimes I would have two or 
more jobs going at the same time where I would work part of a day 
on one job and part on another. 

Investigation of Irrigation Districts for the Land Bank 

I was asked by the Land Bank to make economic analyses of 


Packard: various irrigation districts in the state. It was a time during 

the depression when the bank was having difficulty with some loans. 
Farmers were not meeting their mortgage payments and the bank was 
wondering about the solvency of some of the irrigation districts 
and whether they were in areas in which the bank should loan money. 
The first study I made was in 1933 of the Contra Costa Irrigation 
District. To illustrate the nature of these studies I might record 
the outline of the points that were taken up. "History and general 
description of the East Contra Costa Irrigation District. Climatic 
conditions, rainfall, frost, soils, irrigation, irrigation system, 
water supply, quantity of water available, and drainage. Crop 
productions and yields; apricots, pears, walnuts, peaches, nectar 
ines, prunes, figs, grapes, truck crops. Cost of production; plans 
for reducing irrigation district bonds and interest costs, opera 
tion and maintenance costs. Plans for reducing power costs, county 
taxes. Land tenure, Balfour Guthrie and Company holdings, and size 
of farms, mortgage indebtedness, irrigation district tax delinquen 
cies, county tax, farmers ability to pay, summary and conclusion." 

I made another similar study on the Rio Vista Irrigation 
District in San Diego County. 

Baum: Was the Land Bank interested in refinancing the irrigation district 
or the individual farms within the district? 

Packard: They were interested in lending money to the farmers in the dis 
trict. They wanted to know what they should do, how they should 
act. They wanted these facts as a background for what they should 


Packard: do, how they should act. They wanted these facts as a background 
for what they should do in case delinquencies got very heavy. 

Baum: I ve read that the Land Bank was very conservative, maybe too con 
servative to help the farmers. You had to have too much security 
before they would help you. It wasn t any help. 

Packard: No, I wouldn t say that was true. The Land Bank was a terrific 

help to the farmers of the state. Jt was inaugurated after years 
of very careful study and propaganda. Elwood Mead was very active 
in this campaign. Hearings were held all over the state on rates 
of interest paid banks, investigation of the credit system which 
farmers were objecting to. Farmers wanted more liberal credit and 
longer term payments. So the Land Bank was established and it has 
played a very important part in farm finance in the state. 

Baum: That was back in 1924 or 25 wasn t it, that it was started? 

Packard: Yes. The creation of the Land Bank preceded the establishment of 
the State Land Settlement program, but both movements were the re 
sult of the same need. The Land Bank provided more suitable credit 
for farmers than local banks were able to do. The Land Bank granted 
longer term payments and lower rates of interest. The Bank also was 
more scientific in the attention paid to soil and water conditions. 
Private banks, as I found out, weren t too careful about looking 
into the soil conditions. The land banks had experts in all fields. 

Baum: I think it was in that Larry Hewes book that he said that the land 
banks were so conservative, their terms were less liberal than the 
local banks because they had a policy of not competing for loans 
with the local banks. And this policy changed in 1935 or 36 with 


Baum: the New Deal. You didn t find that true in the area you worked in? 

Packard: No, I didn t find that true and it certainly wasn t true in rela 
tion to the theory on which the Bank was established. The Bank 

was established precisely to help the farmer. Larry s father s 

farm was in eastern Oregon, where pioneer conditions were pretty 

Baum: You investigated several irrigation districts for the Land Bank? 

Packard: Yes, I made reports on three irrigation districts. And in each re 
port I covered about the same items that were listed in the Contra 
Costa district report. This gave the Bank the background on which 
they could make their adjustments. 

Peninsula School; Palo Alto Community Activities; Family 

Baum: Could we backtrack a bit to before your Mexican experi 
ences and talk about what the rest of the family were doing? I know 
you were involved in some interesting community projects in Palo 
Alto, Mrs. Packard, both before and after the Mexican stay. Perhaps 

we could cover those at this point. 


Packard: When we first left Delhi we rented a house at 1031 Shattuck 

Avenue in Berkeley, near Marin Avenue. We lived there for a very 
short time maybe three or four months. Emmy Lou went to the 
Oxford School that spring. Clara was taken out of the Turlock High 
School in the middle of the spring term. She was only thirteen, so 
I entered her in a private school on The Arlington, owned and run 
by Miss Cora Williams. This school had a high standing and she 
could get more individual attention and was able to finish her 


Packard : 



freshman year with good grades. The next summer the bank job 
opened for Walter in Palo Alto and we moved down there. Clara 
entered the Palo Alto Union High School as a sophomore. 

Emmy Lou had not been too well, so the doctor advised sending 
her to school only half a day so she could rest in the afternoon. 
She was always battling tuberculosis, is that right? 

Not exactly -- she had an infection during early childhood and 
Dr. Pottenger advised giving her tuberculin shots to build up im 
munity. She stayed with me at the sanatorium for a few weeks. 
Later, since she was underweight and not thriving, he took her back 
to the sanatorium for six months in 1919 and she almost immediately 
began to gain weight and came back to Delhi with us and went to 
school there during our stay of four years. 

When we came to Palo Alto I wanted to send her to school for 
half a day so she could rest in the afternoons. But the public 
schools would not make such an arrangement and advised sending her 
to one of the several private schools in Palo Alto. 

I inquired around and was advised to see Mrs. Frank Duveneck 
who was interested in starting a new school in which a number of 
other parents had joined in making plans. At that time, the John 
Dewey idea of "progressive education" was at its height and this 
group had been studying the Montessori method and also were very 
much interested in Antioch College as well as the school of Mrs. 
Marietta Johnson in Fairhope, Alabama. We had several meetings 
and I remember that Dr. Arthur Morgan, formerly with the Tennessee 



Packard: Valley Authority and later with Antioch College, came as one speaker. 

Mrs. Marietta Johnson gave a series of lectures. We also had as a 
speaker Dr. Lillien Martin, a practicing psychologist , who had retired 
from the Stanford faculty and opened up a consulting office for 
children in San Francisco. 

With this broad base of publicity, the Peninsula School was 
finally opened in September, 1925, in the old Spring Mansion between 
Palo Alto and Menlo Park. About 45 pupils attended that first year, 
with many of the mothers helping in some capacity. Mrs. Duveneck 
was the prime mover of the project and taught classes. We hired a 
few teachers of recognized standing and credentials. Mrs. Eliot 
Mears taught violin and viola and Mrs. David Webster (Anna) took 
over the art classes. There was always special emphasis on the 
artsmusic, painting, and writing, as well as the three r s--since 
the children had to finally fit into the public school system when 
they went to high school. I kept the books, collected the money 
and paid the bills for two years. Mrs. Mary Deirup taught the 
ceramics work and we had a kiln built for firing the pottery. I 
still have a dozen grill plates made by Emmy Lou and decorated 
with Mexican designs after our three years in Mexico. 

The Peninsula School was an exciting adventure for all of us 
who were connected with it. It was a very controversial subject 
around town and became the bridge table controversy over a period 
of years, as was all so-called "progressive education" which was 
criticized as "letting the kids do as they pleased," "no discipline," 
"too much freedom," "too informal", and what have you. 



Packard: But being free of hard and fast schedules, we could and did have 

special visitors. Some of the San Francisco Symphony members came 
down and once I remember we took our students up to a practice ses 
sion of the symphony when Yehudi Menuhin was the guest soloist. I 
still remember him as a nine year old, standing easily and without 
self -consciousness , slightly on the chubby side and playing with 
the skill of an old pro. 

Henry Cowell gave another of our programs -- some of his very 
far out and modern music on the piano, which had made such a storm 
in Europe. Diego Rivera came for a morning with Frieda Kahlo, his 
wife -- this was following our stay in Mexico when Emmy Lou was in 
the high school. 

Baum: When did Emmy Lou begin to do her art work? 


Packard: I first noticed her drawings when she was at the Pottenger Sanatorium 

when she was eight years old. She wrote scrawly letters to us nearly 
every day and usually illustrated them with some sort of dog (she 
was always fond of animals -- especially dogs and cats). Often it 
would be a character from the funny papers, but her own version of 
them, not an exact copy. So I bought colored pencils and art paper 
as well as other materials to encourage this trend and help her keep 
busy. Also, Walter had an artist cousin, Miss Bertha Heise, who was 
an art teacher in the Los Angeles schools. She gave her many sug 
gestions and also encouraged her to keep on working. Miss Heise was 
a competent artist in water colors and pottery. Some of her pottery 
is now in the Smithsonian Institute as samples of native American 


Baum: The Peninsula School must have been a good place for her to develop 

this talent. 


Packard: Yes, it was one of the reasons why I joined up with the group. Mrs. 

David Webster (Anna) was in charge of this art work and she encouraged 
every child to at least try to express himself with poster paints and 
other materials. Emmy Lou progressed very well there, so was ready 
for the Mexican experience when we went down there at the time when the 
Mexican School of Open Air painting was at its height, and the "Big 
Three" -- Diego Rivera, Jose Clemente Orozco and David Siqueiros were 
being given world-wide publicity for their works of art during the 
Calles revolution of that period. Miss Heise was also well aware of 
this and gave us invaluable information about who was who and what to 
see, before Emmy Lou and I went down there in the fall of 1927 when 
our family finally met again in Mexico City. 

About the end of our two years in Palo Alto, Emmy Lou was ill 
and Dr. Russell Lee diagnosed her trouble as diabetes^ She was 
twelve years old and probably had had it all her life but no one 
had detected it. Insulin had been discovered only two years before, 
and much of the treatment was probably in the experimental stage. 
It was a great shock to us -- I had thought of it as only an old age 
trouble. Her grandfather Packard had it in his later years and man 
aged with a special diet. It is now a family classic that Emmy Lou 
wrote her father who was in Mexico that year, "Dear Daddy: I have 
diabetes. I got it from Grandpa. Love, Emmy Lou." That was all he 
knew until my letter came the next day! 


Baum: What did you do about the diabetes? 


Packard: Dr. Lee advised sending her to Stanford Hospital in San Francisco for 

further diagnosis and adjusting to diet, but he tried doing it at home 
for a while. About that time, Dr. Lillien Martin had been lecturing 
on children s problems and I had consulted her -- she at once told me 
of the Children s Diabetic Clinic at the Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital 
which was run by Dr. William Sansum. Walter came home from Mexico 
for Clara s high school graduation and after long discussions, we de 
cided to send Emmy Lou down to the clinic. 

To make a long story short, we sold the house, stored our goods 
and Walter left for Mexico, taking Clara with him. He had a contract 
to work for the Comision Nacional de Irrigacion in Mexico City and we 
were to join him as soon as we could get Emmy Lou adjusted to her 

I spent a month there at Santa Barbara and attended classes for 
parents whose children were in the clinic. It was one of the most 
profitable experiences and gave both Emmy Lou and me the knowledge 
and confidence to go on facing a lifetime of insulin injections for 
her, and the skill of managing her own diet, which she has always done. 

That ended her first session at the Peninsula School. When we 
returned from Mexico, she went into the high school with half a dozen 
other girls and they had a good time together. But the Peninsula 
Board decided it was too small a group and closed it down. Most of 
the girls went to Palo Alto High School, but we were living in the 
district of Sequoia Union High School in Redwood City. So, Emmy Lou 






Packard ; 

went there one year and graduated, and the next year entered the 
University of California where Clara was already in her second year. 
How could you risk taking Emmy Lou to a place like Mexico where there 
is so much risk of intestinal infections? 

Dr. Sansum gave us confidence to do this as he assured us that once 
we and Emmy Lou, as well, had learned the techniques of diet in rela 
tion to insulin patients, she was as well off there as anywhere else 
with proper precautions. After I had finished up the business details 
of selling the house and leaving Palo Alto, I went to Santa Barbara 
and spent a month there in a room adjacent to the Cottage Hospital. 
There was a rather large group of diabetic children there, and Dr. 
Sansum gave lectures every day to the parents about the basic prob 
lems of normal diet, as well as the management of insulin patients, 
that was invaluable to all of us. He taught the children also -- he 
had a theory that most diabetic children have a more than average I.Q. 
But at any rate, they learned rapidly to understand their problems 
and it was not too long before Emmy Lou could give herself the twice 
daily shots of insulin. 
Was her diet so different from yours? 

No. Dr. Sansum 1 s theory was that children especially need a normal 
diet during their growing-up period. So he taught them and their 
parents the types of food they needed and then balanced this with a 
big enough insulin dose to digest the food. In the earlier treat 
ments, too liberal amounts of fats were given for calories, since 
fats do not require insulin -- only the carbohydrates and some protein. 
When we came back to Palo Alto after our return from Mexico, a 



Packard: community theatre had been started. Emmy Lou and I went over and 

worked in that while Walter was away on a six months consulting job 
in Seattle. There was also a community forum which met at the Palo 
Alto Community House, near the old Southern Pacific Station. It 
was led by Judge Jackson Ralston, and Lieutenant Commander Stewart 
Bryant was another member of the committee. I was on the committee, 
and I did the publicity for the Palo Alto Times. We had many speakers 
who would come to speak on the background, the reasons for the de 
pression and the problems of the times. Judge Ralston, being a 
member of the Commonwealth Club, often could get friends of his who 
were speaking at the Commonwealth Club to come down. Sometimes 
they d come as his guests. We had no money to pay anybody. And 
this was at a time during the depression where there were bread lines 
in Palo Alto. People were just drifting along the highways trying to 
find a job or a place to sleep. 

There was a very active committee in Palo Alto which was led by 
an army captain who lived in San Mateo, which organized a work place 
where people could work, cutting mill ends which had been donated 
for kindling. There was quite a market for that. 

Baum: This was to provide jobs? 


Packard: To provide jobs, to bring a little money in, to keep the bread lines 

fed, and to provide jobs for those who were willing to work and help 
in the temporary kitchen that was set up to take care of this problem. 
This lumber was often from wrecked houses and things that didn t cut 
up evenly and the army captain said, "the trouble with these people 



Packard: is that they want pretty kindling wood. They don t buy this stuff." 

He was completely indignant at this. 

Several people like Waldo Salt and Jimmy Sandoe, who is now in 
charge of the Shakespeare Theatre up in Ashland, Oregon, along with 
several Stanford students, used to work in our community theatre. 
There was also a paid director, Reidar Torgussen. Among others who 
enjoyed this amateur theatre work was Burton Cairns, then a senior 
at the University of California School of Architecture. This was the 
first meeting place and association with Burton, who later became our 
son-in-law when he and Emmy Lou were married in September, 1934, at 
the beginning of her junior year at the University of California. 


Marketing Agreement Program for the Pacific Coast 

Packard: After my return from a trip to Mexico in the fall of 1933 to 

salvage what I could from my dust bowl farming operation in Durango, 
I had an interview with Dr. Harry Wellman who, with Howard Tolley, 
had been working on the problem of balancing demand and supply in 
the fruit industry in California. The Agricultural Adjustment Ad 
ministration had been organized and Dr. Wellman was in charge of 
operations on the Pacific Coast. Although marketing was not in my 
field I had had basic training in economics and was offered a posi 
tion which nominally put me in charge of marketing agreements on the 
Pacific Coast. I was sent to Washington for a training course in 
marketing under Dr. Wellman 1 s direction. After a month or so I re 
turned to California where what I did was quite properly, closely 
supervised by Dr. Wellman. 

Baum: Now you were going to be in charge of marketing agreements? 

Packard: Yes. 

Baum: Through Northern California? 

Packard: No, the entire Pacific Coast. Although hops and pears were the only 

crops outside of California that were included in the marketing agree 
ment program. 

The whole approach to the marketing problem appealed to me very 
much at the time, although years later I felt that the A. A. A. program 


Packard: tended to throw too much control into the hands of the large opera 
tors. In the end I believed the action taken by the Supreme Court 
was correct. I was very favorably impressed by the fact that both 
labor and consumer interests were represented in all hearings pre 
ceding the creation of any marketing agreement. Many prominent 
farmers objected strenuously to this infringement of what they con 
sidered to be their private rights as growers. The labor and con 
sumer representative usually got along well together and were re 
sponsible for many constructive features of the agreements that 
were consummated. 

The first agreement covered the peach industry. This interested 
me very much because as superintendent of the Delhi Land Settlement 
project I had been advised by the University advisors to urge settlers 
to plant cling peaches for the canning industry. Ten years later I 
was advised by other University specialists that thousands of peach 
trees would have to be destroyed to bring production within range of 
marketing possibilities. In fact, in the spring of 1934, 340,000 
tons of peaches were allowed to rot on the ground in order to get a 
paying price for the peaches that could be sold. The program was a 
success. The farmers received over six million dollars for their 
1934 crop in contrast to a total of about one million dollars for 
the crop the year before. 

Baum: I know the University advisors job was to grow more and better crops. 
Marketing was not so much their problem. 

Packard: The depression and over-production of some crops certainly drew at 
tention to the need for a careful census of plantings in relation to 


Packard: potential markets and prices. 

Baum: I think the depression started the new subject of agricultural econ 
omics . 

Packard: Yes, I think that is true. Howard Tolley was taken from the marketing 
organization of the United States Department of Agriculture to head 
the newly established Giannini Foundation of the College of Agricul 
ture of the University of California. The creation of the A. A. A. 
created the machinery through which a fantastic educational campaign 
in marketing could be launched. Well attended farmers meetings all 
over the state were addressed by economists who discussed demand and 
supply relationships, and the need for cooperation toward a common 



Packard: I remember one incident that happened in Hollister. Mr. Frank Swett 

was in charge of the Pear Grower s Association at the time. He and 
Mrs. Swett went with us to a meeting in Hollister where Mr. Packard 
and Mr. Swett were to explain the government plan to the farmers of 
limiting their crop sales to get better prices. The audience of 
fruit growers was very hostile about the plan and booed Mr. Packard -- 
much to Mr. Swett s indignation. I do not remember the outcome, if 
they signed agreements or not. 

Baum: Were the farmers satisfied? 

Packard: Those who survived were very much pleased. But the interests of the 
sub-marginal growers could not be salvaged. The sub-marginal growers 
were forced out of the peach industry as a result of over-production 
in relation to the market. 


Packard: I should add, however, that although the peach growers as a 

class were pleased, they would not agree to sell any of the surplus 
to the W.P.A. for canning for those on relief. The W.P.A. offered 
a price of six dollars per ton to cover the cost of picking, but 
the farmers at a meeting in Marysville voted to let peaches rot on 
the ground rather than let them go to the W.P.A., even though the 
W.P.A. peaches were to be given to the migrants from the dustbowl. 
I attended this meeting and argued for W.P.A. and was really very 
angry over the outcome. But all was not lost. Many individual 
growers made individual contracts with W.P.A. which resulted in the 
canning of many hundreds of tons of peaches which were given to the 
hungry migrants from the dust bowl. 

Baum: Do you remember who was in charge of the peach growers then? 

Packard: No, I don t remember. 

Baum: The peach growers had some kind of difficulty, hadn t they, with 
their association? 

Packard: There was one incident involving a cooperative cannery. 

This cooperative cannery was the only agency among all the agen 
cies that tried to sneak fruit through at night. They were caught 
sending several carloads of fruit out of the warehouses at night and 
trucking it down to San Francisco. But that was the only agency in 
the whole outfit that was caught doing a thing of that kind. 

Baum: They weren t living up to the agreement. 

Packard: That s right. 

Representatives of canners and other processors attended all of 
the marketing hearings in which they were directly interested. 


Packard: Marketing agreements were proposed for peaches, pears, prunes, 
wine grapes, raisins and hops, but not all of them were consum 

The hearings were conducted by representatives of the Agricul 
tural Adjustment Administration from the Washington office. Dr. 
Wellman was the controlling figure. He had the confidence of both 
growers and processors. One feature of the hearings which interested 
me was the fact that consumer and labor representatives from the A. A. A. 
staff participated in all hearings, and contributed greatly to their 
basic meaning. The objectives were not only to secure profits for 
growers and processors, but also to protect the interests of both 
consumers and labor. This feature of the program was not adopted 
without some very determined opposition from large growers who, in 
some instances, threatened to withdraw if labor and consumer interests 
were included. 

Baum: Didn t raisins present a special problem? 

Packard: Yes. Planting of raisin grape vineyards extended far beyond any 

possible demand for raisins. One reason for this was that an elab 
orate plan for marketing raisins cooperatively had been worked out. 
Ralph Merritt, one of the stars of the College of Agriculture, be 
came head of the enterprise at a salary of $50,000 per year. The 
future looked rosy under this optimistic leadership. But at the 
time of the hearing on the proposed marketing agreement, boxes of 
unsold raisins were piled twenty feet high covering large lots and 
a large number of raisin growers faced loss of their farms. Thou 
sands of farms during this period were taken over by the banks. 


Baum: Didn t they tear out a lot of vineyards then? And wasn t cotton 

Packard: Yes, that is true. World War II had a great deal to do with the 

expansion of the cotton plantings. 

San Francisco General Strike, Summer 1934 

Baum: Didn t the General Strike in the Bay Area occur about that time? 

Packard: Yes, it did, and I had a chance to see the issue from two points of 
view. I was attending a meeting of the Canner s Association in San 
Francisco when word came in that violence had started on the water 
front. Without any motion to adjourn the men present left the meeting 
with expressions of rage and a determination to fight back. As I re 
call it, this was on what came to be called "Bloody Thursday". 

The second incident concerned the labor interest. A meeting had 
been called in Berkeley where Dr. George Medley was to tell of his 
experience in his contact with the striking workers in San Francisco. 
The meeting was held in the First Congregational Church in Berkeley, 
but was not well attended because people were afraid. At the close 
of the meeting, a badly crippled man who was conducting a left wing 
philosopher s school in Oakland, called out, asking the men to re 
main because he was threatened with violence. I knew the man, whose 
name I can t remember. I had spoken at one of his open air meetings, 
as had several University of California professors. I quite naturally 
went down to see him. He pointed to two men in the back of the room 
and said that these men had threatened him. A group of us surrounded 
these two men and asked them what they were doing. They became ap- 


Packard: prehensive and moved to the door. As we emerged onto the grass 
outside Emma felt something hit her foot. It was a large monkey 
wrench with a wrist band attached that had been dropped by one of 
the men. We held them and called the police. But instead of the 
police, a group of Berkeley Nationals showed up. These were civili 
ans who had been deputized because of wild rumors that trouble was 
brewing. They had official arm bands and demanded custody of the 
men who were released. 

That was the night when the Finnish Hall in Berkeley was ran 
sacked by a mob of direct actionists. It cost the city of Berkeley 
$3,000 to repair the damage. We have Kodak pictures of the wrecked 
Finnish Hall. 

Baum: Let s see, these Nationals came and then did the gentleman get home 
safely or what? 

Packard: The two accused men were released because there was nothing to ac 
cuse them of. They hadn t done anything. 

Baum: I didn t realize that feeling was so tense here in BerMey. 

Packard: It certainly was. Bricks, with menacing notes attached, were thrown 

through the windows of some who had expressed sympathy for the strikers. 

We, like the whole Bay Area, were inconvenienced by the General 
Strike. Store supplies dwindled rapidly as people bought non- 
perishables for storage in case the strike lasted for a long time. 
We managed to get gas and supplies by driving into the country beyond 
the area affected by the strike where we were able to get what we 
needed. We were living in Dr. Wellman s house at that time. The 
Wellmans were in Washington. We had Dr. Carl Sauer as a next door 
neighbor, which resulted in a lasting friendship. 


DIRECTOR, 1935 - 1938 

Director of Region 9 

Purposes i)l" Rural Rc Hetl: Icmrnt Administration 

Packard: My assignment with the Agricultural Adjustment Administration 
ended with the establishment of the Resettlement Administration 
which, in a sense, supplemented the work of the A. A. A., which was 
concerned with the overall problems of supply and demand, markets 
and prices. The Resettlement Administration s concern was centered 
in the plight of the low income farmer, the sub-marginal producer, 
and the migratory farm workers, a large proportion of whom were vic 
tims of both the depression and the dust bowl. Dr. Rexford Guy 
Tugwell, administrator of the new organization had the following to 
say in his first annual report: "The economic depression placed 
more than a million farm families on the relief rolls. Farm fore 
closures, bankruptcies, and unprecedented low prices for agricul 
tural products caused many farmers, normally self-sustaining, to ask 
for aid. But a large segment of the rural relief population was 
constituted of families who even in good times had been living close 
to the poverty level. These families were primarily the victims of 
n fundamental maladjustment between our people and our mate-rial re 
sources. They were the victims of trends which had manifested them 
selves over a long period of years. The recovery measures instituted 
by the government which brought a majority of the rural population 


Packard: "back to a self-sustaining basis, still left these families groping 

with overwhelming forces. The poverty of this section of the popula 
tion is costly to tlu- people of the nation. In keeping them on re 
lief, other American citizens have been paying out hundreds of mil 
lions of dollars each year. Yet this money, while it served a 
humanitarian purpose of keeping these men, women, and children from 
starvation, has done little to remedy the causes of their condition. 
Despite public aid, they have remained outside our economic system 
made up of producing and consuming members. Schools, roads, and 
other public services, not to mention their fundamental needs have 
been paid for by our taxpayers." 

Baum: So, resettl enient was designed to improve the condition of the lowest 
income segment of those dependent upon agriculture. 

Packard: Yes, in essence that is true. 

Baum: Wasn t there an official policy statement made when the Resettlement 
Administration was created? 

Packard: Yes. In the Presidential Executive Order of April 30, 1935 three 
major functions were designated. The new organization was"to ad 
minister approved projects involving the resettlement of destitute 
or low income families, in both rural and urban areas. It was em 
powered to carry out a series of land conservation projects. Finally 
it was charged with the duty of helping farm families on relief be 
come independent by extending to them both financial and technical 
assistance. " 

Baum: How did you get involved? 


Packard: I, along with many others from various parts of the country, went 
to Washington to be interviewed by Dr. Tugwell and his administra 
tive staff. The initial plan was to have two directors in each of 
nine regions covering the United States; one to be in charge of rural 
rehabilitation, including the purchase of sub-marginal lands and the 
other to be in charge of the resettlement projects. As it happened, 
both Dr. Carl Taylor, Director of Resettlement and Dr. L.C. Gray, 
Director of Rural Rehabilitation, wanted me to be their representative 
in Region 9, which included the southwestern states of California, 
Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, and Nevada. Dr. Tugwell, therefore, de 
cided to try the experiment of having only one director in a region, 
by appointing me as the Director of Region 9. The plan worked out so 
well that one director replaced the two-man plan in all regions at 
the beginning of the new year. 

The goal of the Rural Rehabilitation Division was not merely to 
help destitute farm families obtain the minimum of food and clothing 
during this year and next, but to help make them once more independent. 
Every family for whom a successful rehabilitation plan was worked out, 
was a family taken off the public relief rolls. This work was the 
largest element in the rural program of the Resettlement Administra 
tion. Some 500,000 farm families were affected. The care of these 
families occupied the full time of the largest division of the Re 
settlement Administration, which maintained a small Washington force, 
and an organization which reached into every state. 

Baum: Rehabilitation was to keep them on the same farm? 


Packard: Yes, that is correct. One of the most effective phases of the 

program was directed by trained home demonstration agents who pro 
moted the production of home gardens, raising chickens, and canning 
fruits ami vegetables for winter use. The money value of the work 
clone by many farm women exceeded the cash return from the farming 
operations. The tenant purchase and the school lunch programs grew 
out of the work of this division. 

The Resettlement Division, in contrast, was organized to help 
landless farmers buy farms on which they could make a satisfactory 
living. I became National Director of this division after six 
months in Region 9 and will have more to say about it when I get 
to that point. 

The sub-marginal land purchase program was designed to take 
low producing land out of cultivation and to develop it for other 
purposes: grazing, reforestation, recreation, and the like. This 
sort of work was taken over later by the Soil Conservation Service. 

Baum: It cut down overproduction a little, I suppose. 

Packard: Yes. The actual effect on production was slight because none of 
the land was producing much for the market. 

Another important division of the Resettlement Administration 
was responsible for the Green Belt town planning program. The 
principles involved in this program have had a profound influence 
in town planning ever since. 

Baum: Weren t there a number of conflicts of interest created by the es 
tablishment of this new organization? 


Packard: Yes, that s true. A number of relief agencies were brought to 
gether in Washington. In general it was evident that the job of 
reducing the rural relief load was essentially different from that 
of providing jobs for disemployed workers in industrial work. 
Setting Up Region 9 

After a week or ten days of intense briefing covering details 
of both the work to be done and the organization to be set up, I re 
turned to Berkeley and opened the regional headquarters in the Mer 
cantile Building in Berkeley. Each of the five states in Region 9 
had its own organization. 

Baum: How was your office organized? I wonder if you got most of your 
people from the University. 

Packard: My office, as Regional Director, was largely supervisional. We also 
handled the financing. The state organizations did most of the work. 
Most of the personnel in California were graduated from Cal, but I 
don t recall that any one resigned from the University to join the 
Resettlement staff. Paul Taylor was of tremendous help in the 
migrant labor program, but he served as an advisor rather than a 
federal employee. 

Baum: Didn t you take over most of the work that had been developed by 
the State Relief Administration under the direction of Dr. Dewey 

Packard: Yes. Harry Drobish, who was Director of the Rural Rehabilitation 

Division of the State Relief Administration, became the Director of 
the Rehabilitation Division of the State Resettlement Administration 

3 07 

Packard: organization. I had known Drobish when he was Farm Advisor in 

Placer County and had a great deal of respect for his ability. I 
appointed Jonathan Garst as Director of the Resettlement Division. 
T hail worki tl with Carst when wo wore- both employed by the State 
Market Director. T also appointed Mr. Frank Swett as a Regional 
Supervisor, in charge of approving loans to cooperative organiza 
tions. Frank had been Director of the California Pear Grower s 
Association and was thoroughly grounded in the credit field. 

Another responsibility of the Regional Office which deserves 
special mention was concerned with the building program. I selected 
Joseph Weston as head of the architectural staff. He had been in 
charge of the building program on a low cost semi-rural subdivision 
in Southern California, which had proved to be very successful. 
Weston employed my son-in-law, Hurt on Cairns, and Vernon DeMars , a.s 
his assistants. This group, together with Maude Wilson, home econ 
omist from the Oregon State College, were in charge of the building 
programs, including the construction work on the labor camps and on 
all resettlement projects in the Region. This included selection of 
sites, purchase of land, design of buildings and community services, 
letting of bids, and supervision of construction. Maude Wilson s 
contribution concerned the very human side of house planning. Her 
specialty was the arrangement and management of kitchens. They 
used a groat many of her idoas concerning flow of work, utilization 
of space, getting your sink the right height, and any number of 
tricks. Slio s written n number of books. 


Packard: Shortly after the regional and state staffs were organized 

a conference was held in Salt Lake City where Dr. Carl Taylor and 
Dr. L.C. Cray outlined the policies to be followed and discussed 
the programs oT work that were- In-lng formulated. With these pre 
liminaries out of tho wuy , the real work began. 

Baum: Now, what was the program for California? 

Packard: The greatest emphasis in California was On handling the migrant 
labor problem. 

Baum: Oh, is that right? I didn t realize that came under Resettlement. 

Packard: Yes. That was the principal activity in California. 

Migratory Farm Laborers and Labor Camps 

Baum: Then the studies that came out of your office when you were Di 
rector of Region 9 were to point out what the difficult conditions 
were that made the work of the Resettlement Administration necessary, 
and particularly in California? 

Packard: Yes. This was perfectly natural because the intensified nature of 
California agriculture required a large number of seasonal workers. 
We had the advantage of numerous studies made by the state relief 
organization. Dr. Paul Taylor s work was particularly helpful. 
Most of the migrants coming into California during the early 30s 
were destitute people. They had nothing except what they could 
carry in their cars. They left their farms in the dust bowl and 
were dependent wholly on what they could get as itinerant workers. 
And they were living on ditch banks and along river bottoms, wherever 
they could find a water supply and some shade. And it represented 


Packard: a very deplorable condition. There was no single group in the 

state at that time that was suffering more than these agricultural 
migrant workers who had come to California looking for some way of 
getting re-established. As a result the state of California, first 
through tlie State Relief Administration, became very conscious of 
the fact that .something had to be done Cor these migrant workers. 

Dr. Paul Taylor, economist of the University of California 
and a careful student of labor problems, had this to say: 

The spread of an industrial labor pattern is an outstanding 
fact in the history of farming in California. Intensifica 
tion of agriculture constituted the physical basis for the 
shift from dependence upon laborers of family farm hand type 
to dependence on unstable industrial masses of hand workers. 
The value of intensive crops represented less than four per 
cent of a total value of California crops produced in 1879. 
By 1929 only a half century later, intensive crops repre 
sented practically four-fifths of the total. Demand for 
farm labor in California is not only heavy because of in 
tensive crop production, it is also concentrated to a marked 
degree because the scale of farm operations -- the large farm 
is very pre-eminent in the rural economy. And the large 
grower exercises great influence in the councils of agri 
cultural employers. More than one-third of all large scale 
farms in the entire country are located in California in 
1930. This is from Rural Sociology, ,Vol. 1, No. 4. 

Baum: And what s the name of the article? 

Packard: "Contemporary Background of California Farm Labor" by Paul S. 
Taylor and Tom Vaseg. 

The reason for concentrating on the plight of the migrant 
farm workers was further analyzed by Eric Thompson, regional 
sociologist, in a paper on "Why Plan Security for the Migrant 
Worker?" read before the California Conference of Social Workers 
In San .lo.-ie, May [2, \<n? . 


The labor demand for resident migrant workers in 
California agriculture was officially estimated at 
from 46,448 in January to 193,349 in September. Last 
year (1936) 84,000 migrant workers entered the state 
of California in search of work. Eighty- five per cent 
of them were from the drought states. Nevertheless, 
there was a shortage of workers In some areas for the 
demnml for labor was growing tremendously because of 
the expansion of certain crops. The total irrigated 
area more than quadrupled from 1890-1930. Our truck 
acreage, for example, has trebled since the war. Sugar 
beets more than doubled during the 1920s, cotton in 
creased 150%, 4007o to yield. Cotton acreage is still 
increasing rapidly, and is one of the major reasons for 
the constant influx at the ratio of some two hundred a 
day of workers from Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and other 
cotton states. 

Packard: Gregory Silvermaster, at that time, statistician for the California 
State Department of Labor Statistics, prepared two reports at the 
time of the agricultural strikes in California in 1933 in an at 
tempt to analyze the basic characteristics of the California ag 
ricultural economy. 

Baum: Wasn t Silvermaster accused of being a communist and thrown out of 
the department? 

Packard: That occurred some years later in Washington. In my contacts with 
him I found him to be a very keen observer, fully dedicated to the 
public interest. Copies of his and many other papers and reports 
are in my files. 

The camps established by the R.R.A. were more elaborate than 
the ones that had been established by the state. Some of them in 
cluded labor homes where the family would be on an area of an acre 
and a half or two acres and would be a part-time farmer. And some 
had one room shelters that were more or less permanent. Then there 


Packard: wort- a vory largo number of tent platforms and trailer spaces, 
where people with trailers would come in to camp. There were 
thirteen camps established from the beginning and up to 1940 in 
California and five in Arizona. Five mobile camps which could be 
moved as the demand arose, were established in California and one 
in Arizona. A detailed record is presented in the following 
memorandum: (see page following) 

Baum: Was this true in most regions of the United States, that estab 
lishing labor camps was a major part of their Resettlement Ad 
min 1st rat I on? 

Packard: No, the labor camps were concentrated in California and in Arizona. 
I don t know of any place else, in fact. 

Baum: I m surprised, because I hadn t read of this as one of the major 
functions of the Resettlement Administration. I suppose it was 
just this region then. 

Packard: Yes. The problem was acute here both because of the high demand 
for seasonal workers in California s specialized agriculture and 
the fact that so many landless farmers drifted west from the dust 
bowl and other drprc-ssi-d areas in the South. 

B;ium: Wasn t tlu-r*- a lot of opposition to the camp program on the part 
of the Inrgf growers? 

Packard: Yes, the opposition was quite intense. There was great fear among 

the large producers that farm labor would attempt to organize unions 
and demand higher wages, better living conditions, and more security. 

Baum: Well, it was prohibited in the farmers camps, wasn t it? They cal 
led it trespassing if labor organizers tried to enter the camps. 




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Packard: No, that was not the policy. We were sympathetic with the goals 

of organized labor. Paul Taylor, our labor advisor, was a staunch 
friend of labor, as we all were. 

Our primary aim, however, was to provide some semblance of ac 
ceptable living conditions for the farm workers and their families. 
All of the permanent camps had hot and cold water for showers and 
washing. Flush toilets were provided and water was piped around 
the camp Cor the- convenience of the campers. Stationary wash tubs 
were a part of the central service area building. Most of the camps 
had playgrounds for the children where the children could be cared 
for under supervision while the parents were in the fields. Some 
people criticized the camps for being too elaborate. But when Emma 
and I revisited some of the camps years later, we were appalled by 
the meager facilities. This was due in part, perhaps, to the fact 
that the camps were relatively uncared for and unsupervised when 

they were transferred to local control. 
Packard: I remember visiting a camp in Kern County where the camp manager had 

an unusual approach, lie was always dressed in immaculate white duck 
trousers and clean white shirt. In visiting the families he would 
enter the tent and look around for a clean place to sit down. The 
reaction was always the same. The folks would dust off a chair or 
a box for him to use. As a result the conditions in the camp im 
proved without his ever saying a word. That was his method of 
working and they all loved him. (Laughter) 

Baum: And they didn t object to this? They didn t think he was aeting 



Packard: No, they rather admired him I think. At least that s the impression 

I got. 

The people in Berkeley and the Bay Area were interested in what 
was being done for these migrant workers and their families. Tons 
of clothing were collected by church groups and sent by truck to the 
labor camps. I remember Paul Heyneman donated a thousand pairs of 
blue jeans. Clark Kerr, a graduate student in labor relations, rep 
resented the Quakers on the Berkeley committee. It was during that 
time that Steinbeck s Grapes of Wrath was written and the same time 
that Carey McWilliams wrote the book Factories in the Field. He 
was then State Housing Director. And he was very intimately associ 
ated with this whole problem. 

Baum: I have a few more questions about the Resettlement Administration 
camps. What was your responsibility in the camp program? 

Packard: Our responsibility was to plan the camps, rent or buy the land to be 
used, finance and supervise the construction, and be responsible, 
financially and otherwise, for administration of the camps. 

Baum: Could you cite any instances of Associated Farmer pressure on the 

officials to get rid of the camps or whatever they wanted done with 
the camps; either in the camps or in the offices? Politically? 

Packard: Politically, there was always opposition to the camps by the As 
sociated Farmers. But I don t know of any threats to any officials. 
There was one case in a camp down in Kern County, where the farmers 
had thought a camp manager was going to organize a union. They 
threatened vigilante activity. So the camp manager raised an 


Packard: American flag on a pole at the camp entrance. When the representa 
tives of the Associated Farmers came to the gate the camp manager 
stopped them and said, "This is federal property and if you enter 
to cause trouble I will call a United States marshal and have you 
evicted. That was enough. The group left and there wasn t any 
violence ut all. 

Baum: They didn t ever come as a body to call on the office or the ad 
ministrators or anybody like that? 

Packard: Whenever there was a public hearing the farmer interests were al 
ways present. But no attempts were made to contact our office. Op 
position to the camps was not universal by any means. Local com 
mittees usually sponsored the programs. Opposition came largely 
from the large operators who were the principal employers of mi 
grant labor. 

I remember one instance which illustrates the nature of the 
thinking of the employer group. It occurred in Imperial Valley 
where I had gone to look over a proposed camp site near Brawley. 
I had heard that opposition to the camp program was very active. 
One official, I was told, said that he would Burn any camp down that 
might be established. I called the head of the Valley Chamber of 
Commerce, whom I knew, and asked for information regarding the 
situation. He said that every chamber of commerce in the Valley 
had passed a resolution condemning the program. I asked him if he 
had secured the opinion of the migratory workers who would use the 
camp. He said, "Of course not" which gave me a chance to explain 


Packard: the philosophy which we were following. The camp was established 

and became very popular with the public, as well as with the workers 
who used it. 

Baum: Well, I suppose the objection was that there was a place where all 
the laborers were congregated and labor organizers might make some 

Packard: Yes. Organized labor might strike and make demands which the pro 
ducers would not want to meet. The producers just didn t want any 
organization of farm laborers. 

Baum: Did labor organizers appear at the camps? 

Packard: Yes, occasionally. But nothing significant happened so far as 
unionization was concerned. 

Baum: Then it was camp policy not to permit organizational meetings to 
take place on the camp grounds? 

Packard: Not exactly. The main purpose of the camp programs was to provide 
improved living conditions. 

Baum: And was there any policy regarding union organizers who were, say, 
living there and were known to be union organizers? 

Packard: No, I don t think there was any policy relating to the centers. 

The Resettlement Administration, in its philosophy, was in favor of 
the organization of farm workers. They were very anxious to have 
them organized. But under the circumstances there was no attempt on 
the part of the Administration to use the camps as centers for union 
organization. Unofficially, all of the camp managers were very sym 
pathetic to labor. I met with the representative of organized labor 


Packard: many times, both in the field and in San Francisco. 

Baum: Oh. Was this C.I.O. or A.F.L. ? 

Packard: The C.I.O. principally. 

Baum: Oh yes. I think that was the period when C.I.O. was trying to 
organize agricultural workers. 

Packard: Yes. I was friendly and cooperative, but I did not participate in 
organizational work. 

Baum: Would they come- to your office and ask for some kind of assistance? 

Packard: Yes. Sometimes they would. 

Baum: What kind of assistance would they want you to give or what kind of 
assistance did they think you could offer? 

Packard: I remember one organizer who wanted information about the crucial 
period for striking so that their strikes would be effective. 

Baum: Did they ask for permission to organize in the camps? 

Packard: No, at least I do not remember any such request. The use of the 
camps as centers for union organization would have endangered the 
primary purpose of the camps which was to provide tolerable living 
conditions for migrant farm workers. But this does not mean that 7 
and tlu others were not in favor of organizing farm workers. Op 
position by the large farmers to attempts to organize were very in 
tense. For example, my brother John had to be escorted out of 
Imperial County by motorcycle police on two occasions when he had 
gone to the Valley as attorney for the Civil Liberties Union to 

represent arrested workers. 


Packard: I remember an incident of some people who were attempting to organize 



Packard: down in the San Joaquin Valley somewhere, Madera, and they did ar 
rest some of the people attempting to organize and put them in jail. 
There was a lot of picketing done and the sympathy of the public was 
in general with the people who they thought had a perfect right to 
go ahead and try to organize. I remember a group of Berkeley League 
of Women Voters went down and marched around the jail, and I went 
with them. 

Baum: Well, did you feel that you could participate in things like picketing, 

Mrs. Packard, since your husband was in an administrative position? 


Packard: I don t know that I ever thought about it at that time. With a group 

like the League of Women Voters, which was protesting what seemed to 
be a violation of civil rights, I think the League s stand was a 
constitutional one. 

Baum: So you didn t feel a pressure at that time to keep out of activities. 


Packard: Not in this incident. I wouldn t have done anything that would have 

interfered with what Walter was supposed to do and had to do in his 


Baum: What about the Salinas lettuce strike? 
Packard: Oh, there was a lot of violence in that conflict. That had nothing 

to do with the camps. That was simply an out-and-out-fight between 

the C.I.O. and the Associated Farmers. 
Baum: Did you have camps there in Salinas? 
Packard: Not when I was there. 
Baum: There is another thing I want to know. Did the communities accept 

the camp program? 


Packard: Yes, they were always accepted after they were established. In 
many cases local committees made up of prominent citizens spon 
sored the programs. There is no question about the fact that the 
program had popular support. No one other than a few rabid anti- 
labor elements could object to the meager but badly needed facili 
ties offered by the camps. 

Baum: And was there any division between large farmers and small farmers 
as to how they felt about the camps? 

Packard: Generally, it was the large farmer who objected to the camps. The 
small farmers, however, were usually not pro-labor. 

Baum: Was there any evidence of spies in the camps, sent in by Associated 
Farmers or any of the other organizations? 

Packard: No, not that I know of. Spies would be easy to spot. They did not 
need spies. The large operators were highly organized and fully 
capable of protecting what they considered to be their rights. 

Baum: You mean the Associated Farmers? 

Packard: Yes. Their profits depended to a degree upon the maintenance of 

an ample supply of docile workers and they, therefore, were against 
anything which seemed to recognize labor s rights. Time has not 
altered this attitude. But time has emphasized the fact that agri 
cultural workers will have to organize and act collectively in their 
own interests if they are to get better annual incomes, improved 
living conditions, and accident and unemployment insurance to meet 
the unusual hazards faced by farm labor. 

Baum: The Delano strikers are doing something about that. 


Packard: They sure are and they deserve public backing. There is no other 
way by which agricultural workers will gain their rights. 

baum: How about the work being done by the Quakers 2 I understand that 
they have hud a man in Tularc County for some years working with 
the farm workers. 

Packard: Yes, the Quakers have done a wonderful job. They have helped workers 
to improve their own living conditions by promoting housing programs, 
and in getting water supplies and sanitary facilities in especially 
depressed areas. Mr. Bard Me Allister, the Quaker representative 
near Visalia, has represented the farm workers viewpoint in local 
conferences so effectively that some large operators have refused to 
attend meetings where Mr. McAllister is to be present.* 

Baum: Did you have anything to do with this Quaker move? 

Packard: Yes I did. I served on the Quaker Committee after I got back from 
Greece. Emma and I stopped in Visalia on two or three occasions to 
see the work that was being done. On these occasions, however, we 
realized that the workers would have to organize in their own in 
terests if any real gains were to be made. The workers must get a 
sense of community of interest. 

Baum: The Quakers are a threat? (Laughter) 

Packard: Any organized attempt to improve the conditions of farm labor is 
considered to be a threat. 

Baum: Did you make any provision for migrant families that wanted to settle 

* Bard McAllister is now in Zambia on a Quaker project - June, 1967. (Mrs. Packard) 


Packard: Yes, in two ways. We established a few part-time farms adjacent 
to one or two of the labor camps in California and two groups of 
part-time farms in Arizona accommodating ninety-one families as I 
recall it. Low cost but well designed houses witn modem facili 
ties were built on land purchased by the government. The objective 
was, in part, to enable these families to supplement their wage in 
come by producing garden truck and poultry products for their own 
use. Two rather elaborate part-time projects were established in 
Arizona. The second method was through resettlement on farms. 

Baum: These part-time farms were like the labor allotments at Delhi, 
weren t they? 

Packard: Yes, the idea was the same. And the results were the same, too. 
They were not very successful. Like the subsistence homesteads 
they did not work out as planned. 

Son-in-Law Burton Cairns, Architect; Daughter Emmy Lou, and 
Diego Rivera 

Baum: Was Vernon De Mars on your staff at that time? 

Packard: Yes, he was. He and my son-in-law, Burton Cairns, Emmy Lou s husband, 
were both on my staff. They worked together beautifully. Burton, 
who graduated cum laude from the architectural division of the 
University, was the older of the two and a natural leader. Eleven 
pages of a book entitled Twenty Outstanding Contributions to Modern 
Architecture written by a Swiss architect, were devoted to the work 
these two young men had done. Only three other American architects 
were included in the book. Some years later (19 3b) , they dc-wigm-d 

-,iOMr IN 

The house was designed by Burton Cairns and Vernon DeMars in 
1938 as an experiment in low-cost housing. The landscaping 
was done by Corwin R. Mocine. Later a separate cement -block 
study was built in the backyard for Mr. Packard. 



Linoleum blockprint by 
Emmy Lou Packard 


Packard: our house in Berkeley and supervised its construction. Vernon 
and his wife Betty were the first to occupy the house when Emma 
and 1 were out of the state on some assignment. Burton, who was 
later appointed head architect for the Farm Security Administration 
for the Region 9 area, was killed in an automobile accident while 
on a job in Oregon. This left Emmy Lou with her son Donald, then 
four years old, to support. This loss affected the course of 
events for tin- entire family. 

Emmy Lou received a subsistence pension for herself and Donald 
and entered the California School of Fine Arts for further training 
as an artist. Following this she went to New York hoping to start 
a career as an artist there. While she was away Diego Rivera came 
to San Francisco to paint a large mural in the Art-in-Action section 
of the Treasure Island Fair. Emma saw Diego and explained Emmy Lou s 
situation and he promptly offered her a job on the basis of their 
previous contact in Mexico . The upshot of this was that Emmy Lou 
became Diego s principal artist assistant. Years later, when damage- 
to the mural had to be repaired, Diego commissioned Emmy Lou to do 
the work. During his stay Emmy Lou drove Diego to and from his work 
and was the only one who would stand up to him when he became angry, 
as he frequently did, when the work did not go to suit him. One 
time when they were eating lunch on the scaffold Diego poured the 
sticky syrup from some canned figs on Emmy Lou s head and had a 
great laugh until Emmy Lou retaliated by throwing the remainder of 
her coffee in his face. 


Packard: On the occasion of Trotsky s death Frida, Diego s wife, called 
from Mexico City to tell him that she thought his life was in 
danger. He took the warning quite seriously and for two weeks moved 
from his apartment into my office in our backyard which we use as a 
spare guest house on occasion. When the work was finished Emmy Lou 
and 1 drove- Diego back to Mexico City. During those days 1 learned 
a good dent about Trotsky and Diego s association with him. Kach 
night T wrote home telling about what I had learned during the day, 
but those letters have been lost. One quality which Diego emphasized 
was Trotsky s kind-hearted love for animals. My impression of 
Diego s communism was that his ideology was very sketchy, but his 
hatred of injustice was intense. One evening at a dinner party in 
a restaurant in Mexico City, Diego drew a sketch of Orozco on the 
menu card, Orozco retaliated by drawing a cartoon of Diego on the 
same menu card. Each signed their sketches and gave the card to 
Emmy Lou Tor a souvenir. T had to maintain my standing at the 
dinner by eating six maguey works fried in deep fat, which Diego 
had prepared for my benefit. (Laughter) But this occurred in 1940. 
I m getting ahead of my story. 

Arizona and Utah 

Packard: One of my duties as Regional Director was to visit each of 
the state offices and discuss their proposed programs. The 
migratory labor camp program dominated the work in California. 
The migratory labor problem was also the dominant interest in 


Packard: Arizona. A special project, designed to conserve the range in 

Arizona was carried out in part under the direction of the Wash 
ington office. About 5,000 wild horses were rounded up and sold 
to a dog food enterprise in Phoenix. The New Mexico group was in 
terested primarily in the rehabilitation program and in the estab 
lishment of a resettlement project on land to be irrigated along 
the Rio Grande. 

Rehabilitation, the conservation of water, and the develop 
ment of range land dominated the program in Utah. My stop in Utah 
gave me a chance to see a number of Mormon villages where the farm 
homes are all located in villages in the center of the farming area. 
I was very favorably impressed with much of what I saw. I was re 
minded of the villages I had seen in France and Mexico. We were 
accompanied on a trip through southern Utah by William Palmer, a 
Mormon who later became assistant director at the United States 
Bureau of Reclamation. 

Baum: I assume you know about the book Box Car in the Sand by Laurence 

Packard: Yes, I have read it. It is based on the experience Hewes had as a 
boy when his father was pioneering on a reclamation project in 
eastern Oregon. Quite a part of the book though deals with Hewes 1 
experience in getting farm workers from Mexico when he was director 
of Region 9 of the Farm Security Administration. He succeeded Garst 
who succeeded me in that position. 

Baum: I haven t finished the book but I saw a statement about "Paul Taylor, 


Baum: "who had launched the first concrete proposal for the camps; 
Burton Cairnes, a splendid young architect who designed them; 
Walter Packard and Garst, who had, with Tugwell s backing, got 
them built." The book also has a statement about the Director of 
the Agricultural Extension Service of the University of California. 

Packard: You mean Crocheron? 

Baum: The name was not mentioned, but I assume he referred to Crocheron. 
He tells about an interview with the Director to discuss the re 
settlement programs. Hcwes said that "when the Director had warmed 
up to the subject, he broke into a monologue of denunciation of 
Roosevelt-, Wallace, Ickcs, Hopkins and Tugwell. He loathed them 
all and his loathing plainly included me. He approved a wide 
hostility toward Farm Security and probably helped promote it." 

Packard: That was Crocheron 1 s style. He was against everything connected 

with the New Deal. He was a terrible autocrat who finally went so 
far in shaping the Extension Service into a semi -military organiza 
tion that he had to be ordered to desist. He was one of the reasons 
why I left the Extension Service. 

Baum: I read n statement about him which said "He landed in Berkeley with 
a bowl or hat and spats. And it was very hard for farmc-rB to B ec 
hini. " 


National Director of the Rural Resettlement Division 
Subsistence vs. Middle-Income Farms 

Baum: Then you became National Director of Rural Resettlement. How did 
thnt come about? 

Packard: Shortly after the work was well started in Region 9, Dr. Tugwtll 
and a number of. his staff made an inspection trip to California. 
We discussed the plans we had made for the various states and made 
a trip through California, Arizona, and New Mexico. We visited the 
Delhi colony where I explained the building program, and discussed 
what I considered to be the good and bad points of the Mead Plan. 

Baum: This was in the thirties? And Delhi was going on? It had already 
been liquidated as any kind of a state project. 

Packard: Yes. But many of the original settlers were still there and the 
orchards, vineyards and alfalfa fields looked good. 

We also visited a labor camp in Kern County and, in general, 
had a chance to discuss a wide range of subjects concerning agri 
culture and the objectives of the Resettlement Administration. 
This led to a discussion of a controversial issue which resulted in 
my transfer to the Washington office as Director of the Resettlement 
Division of the Resettlement Administration. 

Dr. Carl Taylor, a sociologist of national standing, had been 
a key figure in the Subsistence Homestead Program which had been 
taken over by the Management Division of the Resettlement Administra 
tion. No one had the best interests of the farm families more at 
heart than did Carl Taylor. I had a very deep regard for his sin 
cerity and humanitarianism, but I did not approve his subsistence 


Packard: philosophy, I felt that farmers should have enough land to produce 
a larger cash income than Dr. Taylor thought necessary. I objected 
to having the Resettlement Administration accept poverty as a 
standard, in part, because I believed that the maintenance of rural 
buying power was a necessary clement of a viable total national 
economy. Dr. Taylor frit that it would be better to establish a 
large number of small farms of from ten to twenty acres where the 
farmers would get "much of his satisfaction in seeing things grow" 
than to establish a smaller number of larger farms of from forty to 
sixty acres. (This was for the southern states.) 

Baum: You wanted middle class farmers and he wanted peasants. Is that 

Packard: Yes, in a sense that s true. But in either case they would be "til 
lers of the soil". The difference would be in the degree of well- 
being. We both put great stress on the production of garden, poultry, 
and dairy products for home use and upon canning for winter use. 

Baum: Does that mean Tugwell didn t agree with his point there? 

Packard: Yes. Tugwcll supported me, rather than Taylor. 

Baum: And the main conflict between you was that he was going for sub 
sistence farms and you felt they had to be an adequate living farm. 

Packard: That s right. Since Tugwell favored my viewpoint rather than 

Taylor s, he asked me to take Taylor s place with the understanding 
that Taylor would be moved into an advisory position on Dr. Tugwell s 
staff. So, early in December, 1935, Emma and I packed our things in 
our car, stored our belongings in Berkeley, and drove to Washington. 


Packard: Going through Texas and the southern states, I visited the regional 
offices along the way to get familiar with their land settlement 

Greer, South Carolina A Mill Village 

Packard: We stopped in Greer, South Carolina the mill village where Emma 
had worked as a Y.W.C.A. secretary back in 1908. 

Baum: How did you happen to have been in South Carolina? 


Packard: I majored in home economics at Iowa State College and graduated in 

1907. The next year I was offered a half-time job in the college 
library, where I had worked during college to help pay my expenses. 
So I accepted this and took two courses in college beginning French 
and an English course in writing. It happened that a college friend, 
Miss Ethel McKinley, had accepted the job of running the new Y.W.C.A. 
that had been established at the Victor Mills, near Greer, South 
Carolina, and she urged me to come down the fall of 1908. So I ac 
cepted and spent a year teaching girls and women in home economics 

Baum: How did this Y.W.C.A. happen to be established there? 


Packard: There were several cotton mills in South Carolina which were owned or 

controlled by the J. Pierpont Morgan interests. An attempt had been 
made to make the Victor Mills a "showplace" for the industry at a time 
when there was much agitation about child labor in such industries. 
Miss Anne Morgan supported the Y.W.C.A. in New York City and conceived 
the idea of establishing this educational and social center at this 
mill. She always took an interest in it and visited the Y.W.C.A. 
after we were well established and the program was under way. 



Packard: The mill itself was beautifully landscaped and planned for better 

working conditions -- good working light, for one thing. I well re 
member the blazing row of scarlet salvia that ran the full length in 
front of the block long white mill. 

Baum: Were there Negroes in the mill? 


Packard: Definitely not. The employees were all white, mostly what are called 

hillbillies from the Piedmont Mountains. Negroes were employed mostly 
as servants cooks, janitors, etc. Many of them could not read and 
write, though most of their children were now in school -- at least 
while- living in this village. It was a "company town", with drab 
gray houses, pretty much alike in design and rented to employee 
families. In general, the town was pretty well kept up and did not 
look like a slum. Most families probably lived better than they had 
in their little cabins in the hills. 

Baum: What about working hours at that period of labor history? 


Packard: The mill hours were from 6 A.M. until 6 P.M. a straight twelve- 
hour day. My economics professor, Dr. Benjamin Hibbard, suggested 
that I keep my eyes open for "child labor" which was a subject of 
agitation by the- then Interstate Commerce Commission, of which we 
heard u good deal in college and the newspapers of the day. Many 
worked in the mill at the legal age of sixteen. Then I found that 
there was a "piece rate" an arrangement by which papa and mama 
could be paid by the number of pieces they could do in a day -- but 
they could also have help from the older children who did not ap 
pear on the payroll and thus make many more pieces per day. 



Packard: This was later forbidden by labor laws. Actually, the mill was 

rather tolerant of its help so that they could get off from work 
for a day or two now and then. I do not remember any complaints 
or labor trouble while I was there. 

Baum: What about your second visit in 1935? 


Packard: We drove- into the little town early one rainy morning in December. 

It was not salvia season, but I was shocked to see the red flowers 
replaced by a huge barbed wire entanglement in front of the now 
unpainted mill. We had read of labor troubles in these mills and 
this apparently was the result of that struggle for better conditions. 

Baum: Did you find anyone you had known twenty-seven years before? 


Packard: Yes. I inquired at a home and found that Miss Rowena Westmoreland, 

who had been our loyal friend and supporter in the Y.W.C.A. , was 
still living and lived nearby in her home where she was taking in 
boarders for income since she was too old to work in the mill. 
The woman of whom I inquired turned out to be one I had known as a 
three-year-old girl whose mother had brought her along to my 
cooking classes So she accompanied us to see "Miss Rowena", who 
at first did not recognize me, until I said... "Don t you remember 
Miss Emmer? " Then her face lighted up and she fell on my neck 
and said, "Lor, Miss Emmer, 1 to think I could forget you! I never 
loved nobody like I did you, Miss EmmerJ I shore will have some 
thing to tell the boarders when they come home for dinner!" 

Then they told us about the strike and what had happened at the 
mill. I do not remember the details of this now, but I do remember 



Packard: that they said, "The strikers ought to have won. They was right, 

but they acted bad they threw sticks and stones and swore. But 
if they had just a got down on their knees and prayed, they d of 
won. They wuz right in what they was askin s for I" This remark 
shows the- strong religious belief that was almost universal in the 
village. We visited for two hours and I am sure dinner must have 
been late that day 

Types of Resettlement Projects 

Packard: We arrived in Washington in time to be invited to a reception 

for new federal employees at the White House. We were thrilled over 
this invitation until the following morning when the papers noted 
that another reception had been held at the White House and all the 
"small fry in Washington" were there. (Laughter) 

I Celt greatly honored by this appointment, but I had an inner 
fear of uncertainty about the whole program. Based, in part, on my 
experience at Delhi I had a feeling that no one knew just what to do. 
No one, at the time, foresaw the degree to which technological de 
velopments would affect agriculture from coast to coast. There was 
evidence that a new revolutionary approach to agriculture as an in 
dustry and as a way of life was in the making. The first mechanical 
cotton pickers were just being tried out. Their potential use fore 
cast a basic adjustment in the cotton industry. The revolutionary 
effect of other largo .scale land preparation, cultivation, and har 
vesting equipment and ol the use of fertilizer, bcrbicideH, and In 
secticides had not yet been felt. While we were pushing a program 


Packard: to resettle people on relatively small farms a basic movement was 

in the process of reducing the number of farms in the United States 
by about three million, thus cutting the total number of farms in 

Baum: You were, in a sense, working in the dark, weren t you? 

Packard: Yes. What happened illustrates what I have come to consider a con 
trolling factor in economic and social change. Developing circum 
stances provide a force which usually demands economic and social 
adjustments. Planning and design perform their principal functions 
in constructively guiding the changes that must be made as the re 
sult of developing technology. 

At that time the Russian experiment on collective farming was 
receiving a great deal of attention. Here s a clipping from the 
Washington Post of May 11, 1936, entitled "Tugwell: Farmers Lot 
is Sad, Compared to Soviet Film Idyl": 

Farm life in Soviet Russia and farm life in America were 
depicted on a motion picture screen in the Mayflower Hotel 
last night. And from the standpoint of abundance, both 
in the matter of food and of fun, the Russian picture was 
tops by a Siberian mile." 

There seemed to be what you might call three alternatives: 

1) trying to establish a family farm of the traditional type; or 

2) going to industrialized farms; or 3) having cooperative farms. 
Tugwell was very much sold on the idea that very successful coopera 
tive farms could be established in all parts of the United States. 

Baum: What was your reaction to this plan? 

Packard: T accepted the idea on a strictly experimental basis. My ideas were 

not congealed, but I had my doubts about the workability of the pattern 


Packard: because I thought producer cooperatives of the kind proposed were 
not behaviorally sound. My fears were based upon the fact that 
when workers contribute their energy, skills, and intelligence in 
the production of a common product there is no way of dividing the 
claims on supply on a satisfactory basis. In a consumer cooperative 
the division is made on the basis of what the individual buys and 
what he buys is a matter of his own concern alone. This consumer 
relationship is also the primary source of strength of capitalism. 
Highly competitive stockholders in a corporation can associate ami 
cably because each stockholder has a basic independence. He can 
buy stock or sell it as he wishes, and what he gets in profits is 
based very largely upon his own judgment in buying stock. This ami 
cable relationship does not exist in a producer s cooperative of the 
kind proposed. I felt quite certain, therefore, that the settlers 
would quarrel among themselves over work assignments, wages, and the 
like when the project was turned over to settler management. So 
long as tlie government employed a project manager with wide powers 
of decision, I felt the projects might succeed. These thoughts 
were the beginning of the development of my theory of the consumer- 
labor approach to social organization. But this is not the time 
to bring the subject up. I will discuss it later on in proper 

Suffice it to say that I was concerned over the possible impact 
of mechanization upon old values which I considered valid. The fol 
lowing statement, made at that time, illustrates what I had in mind: 
"Our objective is to develop patterns of tenure and operation which 


Packard: "will pass the advantages of mechanization on to all consumers in 
lower rates and prices and to all farmers and farm workers in a 
higher level of living." 

Baum: How many resettlement projects were established? 

Packard: In answering that question I might as well insert the following 
classification of projects as recorded on March 3, 1937: (See 
fol lowing page) 

Baum: The industrialized projects in this list were the producer coopera 
tives you mentioned, weren t they? 

Packard: Yes, they were. 

Baum: How did they work out? 

Packard: In the end they all had to be liquidated. C.B. Baldwin, who was 
the administrator at the time, had this to say at a congressional 
hearing: "Collective farming, financed with federal funds is now 
just another noble experiment to be liquidated as rapidly as pos 
sible by the Farm Security Administration." Baldwin testified to 
the fact that these projects included 450 families and covered a 
total of 63,410 acres as compared to 65 million acres included in 
the family- type farm ownership and rehabilitation program. 

But the fact that these projects failed does not tell the whole 
story. The projects worked fairly well so long as a project manager 
employed by the government was in charge. But when the project 
manager was removed and the projects were turned over to the set 
tler organization, dissension arose and the projects had to be 
liquidated as producer coops. 


Type of Project 
Labor Camp* t 

Part-time F*rms 

Industrial it ed t 

Community t 

Infiltration i 
Tenant t 

Mane of Project 

1. RF-CP-16. California Migratory Labor Camps 

2. RF-CF-26. Mary* villa " 
5. RF-CF-26. Anri " 

1. RF-AZ-7, Arizona Part-Time Farm 

2. RR-OE-21, Solo to Farm 

3. RR-MT-26, Fairfleld Bench Panic 

4. RR-CO-7, Western Slope Farm 

1. RR^AZ-6, Oasa Grande 

2. RR-AK-H, Lak Dick 

3. RF-FB-6, Two Hirers 

4. RF-KB-7, Scott.Bluff 

5. RF-NB-C, Fairbnry Farmstead* 

6. RF-NB-9, Loup City Farasteads 

7. RF-NB-10, Kearney Farmsteads 

8. RF-NB-11, Grand Island Farnsteads 

9. RF-NB-12. Falls City Farnsteads 

10. RF-NE-1S, South Sioux City Farnsteads* 

11. RR-OH-21, Soioto Farms 

12. RR-IH-10, Wabash Farms 
18. RF-SD-23. Sioux Falls 

1. RF-AL-16, Cumberland Mountain 

2. RF-AK-13 . Wright Plantation 
5. RR-AK-12, Lakerlev 

4. RH-GA-P. Piedmont 

5. RF-GA-16, Irwinrille 

6. RF-GA-16. Brier Patch 

7. RF-GA-1T. Wolf Creek 

8. RR-FI-20, Esoembia 

9. RH-IL-2, Lake County Homesteads 
10. RH-MS-12, Riohton Homesteads 
U. RH-lff-1, Malta 

12. RF-NM-16, Bosque 

15. RF-NC-10, Roanoke 
14. RH-NC-2, Penderlea 

16. RF-SC-9, AshnDod 

Iff. RF-IT-ie, WloMta Valley Farms 
17. RR-TX-25, Fannln Fams 
16. RF-VA-1, Skeoandoah 

1. RR-AL-27, Alabam Farm Tenant 

2. RR-AK-19, Arkansas " " 


Type of Project 
Infiltration: - continued 
Tenant t 






Kama of Projeet 

Georgia Farm Tenant 

Loui.Una " " 

North Carolina Farm Teaadb 
Oklahoma Farm Tenant 
South Carolina Farm Tenant 
Tennessee Farm Tenant 
Texai Farm Tenant 































Coffee Fai 

Christian & Trigg Farm* 
State of Maine Farm* 
Central Minn. Farmt 
Thief RiTer Falls 
1.8. Mississippi Farms 
Osage Farms 
Hew Mexico Farms 
Finger Lakes Farms 
New Terk Valley Farms 
Red RiTer Valley Farms 
Boomer Farms 
Yamhill Farms 
Serler Valley Farms 


Labor Camps .. 

Part-Time Farms ...... 

Industrialised ....... 


Infiltration - Tenant. 
Infiltration - Other . 

MOTEt RR-OH-?!, Soioto Farms, listed under b oth Part-time and 
Industrialised Types. 
Correct number of Projects, therefore - 62* 



PFAiCRM i gmi 4/fc/S7 

Casa Grande, Arizona 

Packard: The Casa Grande Project in Arizona is perhaps the best example. 
It was located on 4,000 acres of good irrigable land. Sixty well 
designed houses were located along both sides of the main road 
through the project. Each house was on an acre of land which gave 
ample space for fruit and garden production. A community center 
building provided ample facilities for community meetings. The 
cooperative was organized under state law. A board of directors 
was elected with the responsibility of developing a farm management 
plan for the community project, to be submitted to the project mana 
ger and through him to the regional office. The land and the facili 
ties built by the government were leased to the cooperative for a 
period of forty years. Some leases were for 99 years. The objective 
was to retain land title in the government. The project was designed 
to accommodate sixty families with the idea that small industries 
might eventually be added to accommodate a larger number. For a 
while, the cow testing association stood the highest in the state 
month after month. The hogs secured top prices on the Los Angeles 
market. Crop production was satisfactory and the settler relation 
ship was quite amicable. But when the project was turned over to 
the settler cooperative organization, disruptive quarrels arose and 
the project, as a cooperative, was abandoned. In settling final 
equities every settler possessed more assets than they had when 
they arrived. 

The project manager developed some interesting facts which, in 
principle, have a wide application. He said that about twenty per 


Packard: cent of the settlers were highly cooperative and willing to do any 
thing to make the project succeed. About sixty per cent were 
reasonably cooperative but indifferent. They supported the project 
so long as it seemed to be working, but showed no vital interest in 
making the plan work. The remaining twenty per cent tended to be 
skeptical and often hostile. 1 found this same thing to be true at 
Delhi, too. 

Another comment worth recording is presented in the following 
letter dealing with a study of the Casa Grande settlers: 

Dear Mr. Packard: 

After consulting with Mr. Beatty concerning the classifica 
tion to which you referred in your letter, we have agreed that 
we have about six homesteaders at Casa Grande Valley Farms who 
are finding it very difficult to make the adjustment necessary 
to congenial project life. 

In looking over the history of these six homesteaders, one 
fact stands out that although they had a farm background and 
were on farms at the time of their acceptance, they had spent 
a considerable number of years in industrial work and much of 
their life had been spent in or near cities, where they worked 
in organized trade industries. One was a copper roofer for 
three years, one a plumber and carpenter for two years, one a 
timber grader and mechanic for thirteen years, one a tractor 
driver for three and a half years, one a railroad telegrapher 
for eight years, and one a mechanic for two and a half years. 
In all but one case, they had come from a better background. 
Their fathers had been farm owners and the idea of individual 
ownership had been ingrained since their childhood. They 
* thought the idea of cooperation sounded nice when they were 
down and out, but now that they have been living fairly com 
fortably for almost two years, the old individual instincts 
are coming to the surface again and making them dissatisfied 
with a cooperative project. 

It appears to me that it will be several years before you 
can really tell much about the people on the project. The 
first year or two they are buoyed up by enthusiasm and hope. 
Then after that the daily grind of work and life begins to 


show what kind of people you really have and whether they 
are able to stick to it long enough to become fully adjusted 
to living and working together. 

I hope this will in some way answer your request and if 
there is any other way I can be of assistance to you, I shall 
be most happy to do so. 

Sincerely yours, 

Family Selectionist 

Southern Projects 

Packard: Lake Dick was another cooperative project quite different from 
Casa Grande in some respects. It was in the South, was not settled 
by migrants from the Dust Bowl, and was not irrigated. The houses 
were clustered around a small lake which gave it a rather distinc 
tive character. An interesting incident occurred on a visit I made 
to the project with the Regional Supervisor who was raised in Mis 
sissippi. The settlers on the project were all white, but as we ap 
proached one end of the cotton field I found Negroes doing the work 
under the close direction of a white man sitting on a bench at the 
edge of the field. When I asked for an explanation I was told by 
the supervisor that the settlers were smart. They hired the "nig 
gers" to do the hoe work at ten cents an hour. The settler who was 
in charge of the work kept a close account of the time each Negro 
worked. If he took time out to rest he was docked. (Laughter) 

Another incident involving Negroes may be worth recording. It 
occurred on a rather 1 nr>;e plantation in Louisiana that had been 


Packard: purchased by the Resettlement Administration. All the families 
were Negroes. In talking to the former owner, a white man with 
a great social conscience, I was urged not to let the new super 
visor of the plantation displace the Negroes by white families, 
as ho feared might happen. I visited the project at the time that 
patronage profits from the newly organized cooperative store were 
being distributed. Everyone seemed pleased, but somewhat confused. 
I heard one Negro say to another, "Them Northern white folks just 
ain t smart, I never got no profits from the old plantation store". 

An Urban Project, New Jersey 

Baum: Wasn t there an important cooperative project in New Jersey? 

Packard: Yes, there was. It was known as the Hightstown Project. The 

Hightstown Project was, in part, a dream of Mr. David Dubinsky and 
his garment workers union. They thought that a cooperative project 
in the country could provide better living conditions, lower rents, 
and more profits, especially where the garment industry was associa 
ted with cooperative farming. It was a Utopian idea which did not 
work for the reasons I have already outlined. In this case, in ad 
dition to the unscientific behavioral relationships inherent in a 
producer cooperative, the Hightstown Project had the added handicap, 
created by the fact that the agricultural workers could not earn as 
much as the garment workers without charging more than the going 
market price for what they produced. An incident occurred at one 
of the project meetJnuN which may be worth recording. Mr. Dubinsky 
Invited Albert Klnnleln to visit the project und advise on procedure. 


Packard: Dr. Einstein criticized some of the work of the garment workers and 
Mr. Dubinsky replied by saying "you may know everything about rela 
tivity, but you don t know nothing about the garment industry".* 

Individual Farms 

Baum: What you have said so far is about cooperative farms. Didn t the 
Resettlement program involve providing individual farms for farm 

Packard: Yes, of course. But the number of family farms established was not 
large. As I remember it, our goal was 10,000, but the number 
established was much less than that. The Rehabilitation and Tenant 
Purchase programs did much more for family farm operators than the 
Resettlement program did. A fact which sheds some light on the 
whole concept of planning in a technologically advancing age is that 
the total number of family farms in the United States declined by 
three million or so during the thirty years following the establish 
ment of the Resettlement Administration. 

Baum: Does that mean that you don t believe in planning? 

*Excerpt from a letter to Mrs. Packard from Grace Tugwell (Mrs. Rexford Tugwell), 
written April 15, 1967: "You will be amused to know that Rex was always 
rather bitter about Mrs. Roosevelt s Arthurdale project. He thought the 
concept completely untenable and tried to convince Mrs. R not to push it -- 
and then he inherited the thing, half finished, and then became the target 
for all the well-founded criticism." 


Packard: By no means. It simply illustrates the force of developing cir 
cumstances. Planning and design, to be effective, must anticipate 
the nature of the impact of developing technology upon economic 
an d s o c i a 1 p a 1 1 e r n s . 

Baum: Didn t you .specialize 1 In resettling the owners of sub-marginal 
farms that were- purchased in the program? 

Packard: No, we did not. Dr. Gray, who was in charge of the sub-marginal land 
purchase program favored that idea. So did I, but Dr. Tugwell, for 
some reason, rejected the idea. This did not apply to those who had 
lost their farms in the Dust Bowl. A special effort was made to 
provide irrigated farms for these families. 

Work of the Washington Office 

Baum: (Looking at pamphlet, Low Cost Housing) 

This is a suggestion for farmhouses planned for Resettlement projects. 
Is this a sample of the kind of thing your Washington office would 
send out? 

Packard: Yes. 

Baum: But the use of these house designs was not compulsory? 

Packard: No. They were simply suggestions. We and the regional offices had 
good architectural staffs. Our aim was to get the most and best 
for the money. We wanted houses that had architectural merit but, 
more than that, houses that served the needs of the family. Con 
sequently the home demonstration agent had quite a bit to way about 
house design. General directives were Hent from the Washington oi- 
fice to the various Regional Directors. Some were issued by the 


Packard: Procedure Division, some by Finance and some by the Legal Division. 
All project plans were sent to my office where they were analyzed 
by my staff and submitted to me for final judgment before going to 
Dr. Tugwcll for approval. In order to guide the regions in the 
preparation of these plans, suggestions in the form of memoranda 
were sent out by the members of my staff who also made trips to the 
regions for consultation. I also made trips to the regions usually 
in connection with some regional meeting. I had no authority to di 
rect. When directions were needed they came from the main office. 
I attempted to influence the character of the program by pre 
paring papers and delivering talks at various meetings. The sub 
jects included the following: "Achievements and Future Plans of 
Rural Resettlement," "Food Resources," "Rural Housing Problems," 
"Our Fallow Economy," "The Government as Real Estate Buyer," 
"Reasons for not Conveying Title to Farm Security Clients Until the 
End of Forty Years," "Accomplishments and Larger Purposes of Rural 
Resettlement" (Agricultural Engineers, Washington), "The Resettlement 
Program as it will Affect Western Irrigation Projects" (Institute of 
Irrigation Agriculture, Corvallis, Oregon), "Resume of the Land 
Settlement Program," "The Purposes and Accomplishments of the Rural 
Resettlement Program" (National Conference of Social Work, Indian 
apolis, Indiana), "The Tenant as a Migrant" (National Conference on 
Social Work), "The Resettlement Administration and Migratory Labor," 
"How to Meet the Problem of Marginal Land in Agricultural Land Use 
Planning," "Agriculture and the Depression," "Why the Way we do 
Things Now is Hecoming Impossible," "Back to the Land Movement with 


Packard: "Special Reference to the Jew" (Jewish Community Center, San 
Francisco), "What the Development of Techniques Requires Us 
to Do" (Plan Age). 
Life in Washington 

Baum: What was your life like in Washington? 


Packard: It was a very new experience for both of us. We had had a 

limited experience with politics in California, but now wo were 
in the maelstrom of trying to carry out party promises. We drove 
our own car across the U.S.A. in December, 1935, stopping at many 
local Resettlement headquarters in the southern states, where we 
met hoards of employees until my memory of names and places was 
completely exhausted -- as we went to dinner after dinner with 
the various staffs. We were so late getting into Washington that 
we holed up in an apartment in a hotel just off Lafayette Square 
with housekeeping arrangements, and spent six months there. It 
was very conveniently located to office and government buildings 
and I could stay alone when my husband was out of town, as he 
often was. If there was room in the auto, I frequently went 
along on trips out to projects. 

Baum: This was the working out of some of the New Deal? 

Packard: Yes, the laboratory, as it were. This was also the time when 

Senator Robert La Follette, Jr. was holding his Labor Committee 
hearings and many of us wives attended these hearings -- many of 
which were taking place that year. They were the most exciting 
thing in Washington that season -- better than the theater for 


For instance? 



Packard: Well, the day that Senator La Follette had the Pinkerton Detective 

Agency on the carpet for their snooping into the labor unions 
organizations -- finding out how and where they operated -- also 
the heads of the labor unions in the southern mines and mills -- 
sometimes the sheriffs who guarded the company properties. 

I re-member one day when witnesses of this type were searched 
for weapons as the atmosphere was so tense. Another day, the 
Senator had the whole files of the Pinkerton Agency subpoenaed for 
the hearing. Important employers evaded responsibility for actions. 
The Senator would ask, "Then who would know about this?" Each man 
would pass the buck to another until he, one day, had seven top men 
on the stand trying to get one to take the responsibility for some 
order or action. That was dramatic as you can imagine. The hearing 
rooms were crowded. 

One evening my husband was invited to dinner with Mr. Morgenthau 
where the invited group heard Robert La Follette speak. He made the 
profane statement that "Any one of the vice-presidents (of compa 
nies) that I had on the stand would perjure himself , except that he 
never knew when I had the evidence aginst hi in my hands." Many 
times I heard him ask a question, get a denial of a fact, and then 
he would say caustically, "I have in my hand a copy of that letter -- 
does this refresh your memory?" 

Baum: Were there other hearings as well as the Labor Committee? 


Packard: Yes. Another one I remember was the one where Dr. Francis Towns end 



Packard: was subpoenaed and came with his attorney, Sheridan Downey. We 

had been through the End Poverty in California (EPIC) campaign in 
California when Upton Sinclair ran for governor and Dr. Townsend 
was in all the news for his work for "Senior Citizens" -- probably 
he invented the term at this time. Dr. Townsend had seen an old 
woman nimnmginj; in a garbage can for food and it so enraged him 
that he began his campaign for relief of such people. I forgot 
which men held the hearing on this but they were very discourteous 
to Dr. Townsend in the morning session, which ended tensely, to 
be recalled right after lunch. When we returned, Sheridan Downey 
got up quickly, passed out some copies of a statement that he and 
Dr. Townsend had signed to the audience. He then read it and 
quickly, before anyone had a chance to reply, he and Townsend 
walked out on the hearing and disappeared into a waiting auto and 
drove to parts unknown, leaving the committee gasping in dis 
belief. Tills was clearly contempt of a committee but I do not 
remember that they were ever disciplined for it. I have somewhere 
a copy of that statement and hope I can find it for this record. 

Another incident impressed itself on my memory. At that time, 
John L. Lewis was often in the news and at odds with most of the 
powers-that-be, except for his own union. One day a group of 
students from out of town arranged an interview with him and I 
happened to attend, since it was not a closed meeting. The only 
question that I remember was one asking if he admitted Communists 
I o hln union, tin lie W/H m-cimed of doliiK- Hln reply W/KI lo tlil/i 



Packard: effect: "The union is open to anyone the employers may hire. I 

can t help it if they employ Communists, can I?" And his eyes 
twinkled under those famous bushy eyebrows. 

Baum: You must have done other things besides hearings! 


Packard: Yes, it was a very busy life. There were several official social 

affairs -- two White House receptions and an afternoon tea. We 
were there for the second inaugural of Franklin D. Roosevelt as 
President and saw all we could of that. There were many teas by 
heads of departments and, of course, purely personal affairs among 
close friends. There were plays and concerts. I still remember 
George Gershwin conducting his "Rhapsody in Blue", with himself at 
the piano, in Constitution Hall -- a thrill to remember. 

Baum: What about the many historical places to visit? 


Packard: Those, of course, everyone did. I drove people -- visitors -- out 

to see Mt. Vernon several times and then called a halt. In the 
spring of 1936 my son-in-law, Burton Cairns, and four of his staff 
in architecture in Region 9, came to Washington for a month. It 
was all new to them so I had the fun of going to many places as 
guide, or to places like Williamsburg, Virginia, which had been 
restored. We six drove down in my auto and spent the weekend 
looking over Jamestown, Yorktown, University of Virginia and Thomas 
Jefferson s home. The young architects were fascinated over the 
designs and architecture and I was fascinated by looking at these 
historical places through their eyes. They went over the under 
pinnings and the rafters of the old buildings at Williamsburg with 



Packard: with eager and trained eyes. Maybe the history impressed them, too, 

but techniques and designs and plans were more important to them. 
Burton Cairns, Corwin Mocine and Vernon DeMars were along on this 
trip -- the two latter men are now on the faculty of the University 
of California, Berkeley, in the Environmental Design Division. 
Thi> throe oT thorn later designed and built our own home and gardf-n 
at 77 ) Cru> ,inont Avenue In lierkeley in 1938. 

We drove to New York City for weekends with Walter s two sis 
ters. Another time, for a weekend at the Connecticut home of 
Frances Adams and her husband, Alex Gumberg. Dr. John Dewey was 
among the guests. I had followed his ideas on "progressive educa 
tion" with great interest and the Peninsula School had carried out 
some of his ideas in its organization. We also met Lemuel and 
Mary Parton, both newspaper writers. Lem had written a personality 
column for the old San Francisco News , before going to New York 
where he had a syndicated column. Mary was writing a book on in 
formation about jobs and skills for the United States Government, 
to help young people in viewing the fields of job opportunity. 
She took me under her wing and we interviewed such people as the 
policewoman in charge of the delinquent girls in the Washington 
police department. Another fascinating visit was to the taxidermist 
who mounted specimens for the Smithsonian Institution. Another day, 
we went to the United States Weather Bureau for a survey of the kinds 
of jobs done there. Another time I helped her get ready for an 
unexpect cd reception /it the 1 White lloune for the ncwupupcr people -- 
we managed somehow to find enough of the proper apparel so that 



Packard: she went off gaily in many borrowed items of costume. 


Bnum: What did yon think of Liu- staff you had to work with in thr- Re- 
sett lement Administration? 

Packard: Generally speaking, the people employed by the Resettlement Ad 
ministration were idealists. They were sincere, capable, and 
hard working. The situation was very much like the situation 
that existed when the Reclamation and Forest Services were organ 
ized under the leadership of Theodore Roosevelt, Gifford Pinchot, 
A. P. Davis, and other of the early conservationists. We all felt 
that we were a part of a movement which would do much for the low 
income rural population. 

Baum: The same group would now be joining the Peace Corps, I suppose. 

Packard: Yes, that s true. The same thing was true of the personnel em 
ployed in the early part of the Marshall Plan. Several old Re 
settlement people were in Greece when I was there. Others had 
joined the United States technical staff. The New Deal agencies 
formed a sort of training school for later foreign aid projects. 

Closing Out of the Resettlement Administration 

Packard: The Resettlement Administration, as such, was a short-lived 
organization. Dr. Tugwell left in 1937 and several changes were 
made. The name of the organization was changed to the Farm 
Security Administration and the Land Planning Division, under Dr. 
Gray, was transferred to the Department of Agriculture. All of 


Packard: the cooperative farms were liquidated soon after the Farm Security 
took over, at the direction of Congress. They felt that they were 
too much like the Russian experiment. And C.B. (Beany) Baldwin 
came out with a very strong statement saying that these producer 
controlled cooperative farms were a failure. And they were given 
up. Much of the remaining work of the Resettlement Division was 
taken over by tlu- newly created Tenant Purchase program. Tenant 
farming created one of the dominant social problems in the southern 
states. I was transferred back to Berkeley where I became director 
of the land planning work, which had been separated from Resettlement 
and later was taken over by the United States Bureau of Agricultural 

Baum: That was under Dr. Gray, wasn t it? 

Packard: Yes, that was under Dr. Gray. Garst had moved the Resettlement of 
fice from Berkeley to San Francisco when he became director. When 
I took charge I transferred the Land Planning Organization back to 
Berkeley and took the old quarters that we had before. 

The Farm Security Administration lasted for a good many years, 
but finally was transferred to what is now the Farmers Home Ad 
ministration, which is essentially a loaning organization. They 
have operating loans and farm ownership loans and water development 
and soil conservation loans, a rural housing loan, emergency loans, 
and watershed loans, and rural area development loans. In general, 
the objectives arc not much different from the original Rehabilita 
tion Division of the Resettlement Administration, based on the 
principle that "SupervlHed credit helps farmers Improve their farrmi 



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Packard: "and homes, increase their incomes, and make their full contribu 
tion to the economic growth of their communities. This combina 
tion of credit plus management assistance is a major tool in rural 
area development." 

When I resigned I got a very nice letter from Will W. Alexander, 
September 22, 1937: 

My dear Walter: 

] VC Y bc c-n awuy a great deal and when here have been pressed 
with the details of our reorganization about which you have- 
no doubt seen reports in the press. I have missed you and 
I wanted to write and tell you so and to say that no one 
with whom I have been associated with in this work has given 
me more inspiration than you. The time is coming when we 
will all be proud of our connection with the early days of 
this work. Most of what we started is sound and significant 
and with proper management will vindicate itself and those 
who strove for its creation. To those beginnings no one 
made a more sincere, honest, and constructive contribution 
than yourself. May I assure you of my genuine and abiding 
friendship. With highest regards to you and Mrs. Packard, 
I am, 

Sincerely yours, 

Will W. Alexander 

Haum: That s a very nice letter. 

Packard: Yes. 

Baum: Was he a Tugwell man? 

Packard: Oh, definitely. When Tugwell left Dr. Alexander took his place as 
Administrator. C.B. Baldwin succeeded Dr. Alexander and presided 
over the liquidation of the Resettlement Administration and the es 
tablishment of the Farm Security Administration. Beany Baldwin 
later became the campaign manager for Henry Wallace in his bid for 
the presidency. I received a wire from Beany in February, 1948 


Packard: asking mo to accept a position as one of the national directors of 
Wallace s campaign. But I acted then as I did when Upton Sinclair 
was running for governor of California; I did not vote for either 
man, not because I was conservative (or was I?), but because I was 
afraid of Wallace s religious mysticism. I was still seeking the 
answer to problems which I thought were not clearly understood. 
Tugwcll, who was for Wallace in the beginning, withdrew before the 
campaign omled for reasons similar to mine. 


Irrigation Projects Near Yuma 

Packard: The work of the Land Planning Organization led to the es 
tablishment in Berkeley of the Bureau of Agricultural Economics. 
It was to become a large organization with quite a staff; they had 
plans for quite an ambitious study program and a corresponding 
budget. It appeared then that we would be able to conduct some 
original investigations along several lines such as: detailed 
studios of land available for settlement, cost of land development 
in newly irrigable areas, the relative merits and possibilities of 
different types of settlement, studies of financial and tenure ar 
rangements for settlers and the like. Although elaborate plans 
were made, they were not carried out because of financial problems. 
There were always struggles with Congress about funds. In general, 
this was to be a study organization. They were going to go into 
all of the activities of the Department of Agriculture, including 
the Farm Security Administration, and see where mistakes were made 
in the hope- of developing a philosophy that could be applied no 
that errors could be avoided in the future 1 . One objective was to 
develop a really basic farm policy. 

One of those plans was a proposed study of the Imperial Valley. 
It came about in this way: When I first took the office of di 
rector in Region 9, I had several wires and telephone messages from 
Washington to go to Yuma to visit the Mesa area which the Bureau 
of Reclamation was planning to irrigate. I had been familiar with 
the area before from my time in Imperial Valley. I was rather 


Packard: skeptical because it was an extremely sandy area, where the sand 
was very porous. I felt it involved settlement problems that 
couldn t be met at that time. The Yuma people wanted the Farm 
Security Administration to supplement the work of the Bureau of 
Reclamation by helping settlers finance their development plans. 
I went down to Yuma and met with the committee who drove me out 
over the mesa. I dug around in various places to determine what 
the soil was like. 1 came back with the same conclusion that I 
had when I went there years earlier, that it was not a desirable 
thing at that time because of the problems involved. A rather 
funny thing happened on this trip. While we were out on the mesa, 
the group gathered around me while I was shoveling a hole, and 
the Christian Science Monitor came out with a picture of the group 
on its front page, saying "Packard turns the first dirt on new 
project." Instead of approving it, I turned it down and created 
quite a lot of resentment in Arizona for a while. 

Baum: I didn t understand, quite ... the Yuma people wanted the Bureau 
of Reclamation to develop -- 

Packard: No. The Yuma people wanted the Resettlement Administration to 

finance the settlement of the mesa. The Bureau of Reclamation was 
to provide the land and the water. The Resettlement Administration 
would provide loans and advice and direct the planning, sub-dividing, 
and settling of the land. 

Baum: To get a new business venture going, I guess, was their idea. 

Packard: Yes. Later on, when the Bureau of Agricultural Economics branch 

was established in Berkeley this same issue came up again, but in 


Packard: a larger way The Bureau then was building the All American 
Canal, and there were thousands of acres of land in the east 
side mesa that required irrigation* So a major project developed 
in the working out of a plan for the settlement of both the Yuma 
mesa and the east side mesa in Imperial Valley. As a result of my 
previous experience in Imperial Valley, I took a leading role in 
this new venture. In making the plan I was able to get the coop 
eration of the University of California, the Bureau of Reclamation, 
and the U.S.D.A. I made several trips to the area and prepared 
tentative plans for the subdivision and development of the area. 
I worked closely with Dr. Carl Alsberg who was then head of the 
Giannini Foundation of the University of California, who took a 
keen interest in the project. The study was supported by the 
Imperial Valley Irrigation District and it seemed that everything 
was favorable to carrying out such a study. John Page, the Com 
missioner of Reclamation backed the proposed plans. My cor 
respondence with him at that time is a part of the record which 
I am filing with this report. 

I proposed experimental settlement on both the Yuma and 
Imperial Valley cast sick- mesa in the hope that the special prob 
lems associated with the very sandy land could be worked out be 
fore actual settlement began. I felt that sprinkle irrigation 
might be an advantage both because it would cover the land adequately 
without over-irrigation and without creating a serious drainage 
problem in the areas already irrigated in the lower areas* 


Packard: The whole plan was finally given up, in part because Dr. 

Gray felt that the Department of Agriculture wasn t in position 
to go ahead with so lar^i; an undertaking. Meanwhile my employ 
ment as Director of the- liurcau was terminated and 1 again became 
a consultant, but witli the Farm Security and the Department of 
Agriculture my main clients. 

Study of Baja, California for Jewish Settlement 

One of the jobs I had at that time was for a Committee on 
Jewish Resettlement, whose members wanted to find some place for 
Jewish settlement that might be an. alternative to Israel. The 
committee was headed by Linton Wells and included a number of 
well known people: Fay Gillis, Dr. George Richter, Mrs. Dwight 
W. Morrow, Dorothy Thompson, Maurice Wortheim, Stuart Chase, 
Marian Tyler, Mary Van Cleve, Dr. Alphonse Goldschmidt, Aubrey 
Neil Morgan, Louise Buckley, Frances Adams, and Alex Gumberg. 
The committee meeting which I attended was called by Alex Gumberg 
who was the primary mover in the thing. Dorothy Thompson told 
what she thought about the need for resettlement and how good it 
would be to have it in Mexico, if that were possible. I was the 
second speaker and gave what I knew about Mexico and especially 
about Lower California. 1 expressed some skepticism about the un 
dertaking, but as a result of that meeting I was sent to Lower 
California to make a report on the possibility of having a very large 
Jewish resettlement there. 


Packard; I went to Lower California and was able to get maps and data 
on rainfall and climate from the Mexican government. In fact, one 
of the projects that 1 had worked on when I was working for the 
Mexican government was a project in Tijuana, so I knew something 
about the area already and did have contacts. The plan involved 
the taking over of the lower part of the Imperial Valley below the 
border. It was then owned by Chandler of the Los Angeles Times. 
That is, of course, a very rich and productive area. It would 
support a very sizable colony. It is almost equal in size to 
Imperial Valley on the United States side of the border. The 
northern portion of Lower California is much like San Diego County, 
except that it contains a snowcapped mountain 12,000 feet high which 
provides some runoff which can be used for irrigation if properly 
conserved. Both coasts provide excellent fishing grounds. 

But most of the land area is desert and almost completely un 
productive. I came to realize too that the native population would 
resent the introduction of hundreds of thousands of non-Mexican 
peoples. I was told that the Mexican government would object 
to the project. I came to the conclusion, on balance, that the 
arguments against the plan were stronger than the favorable points 
and reported against the venture. 

Kautn: Did they have a plan for a settlement the size of Israel? 

Packard: No, not as large. It would be supplementary. 

Baum: It doesn t seem that Lower California would have enough land for 


Packard : 
Packard : 

Well, Israel is quite small, you know. 

Yes, and Israel doesn t have very good land either. 

That is right. Its resources are very limited. But, I ve been 

over quite a bit of Israel with Israeli irrigation engineers and 

I was surprised to see what they ve been able to do. 

Work with National Youth Administration 

Another job that I had as a consultant was with the National 
Youth Administration. Aubrey Williams was head of that organiza 
tion. He was very friendly with John Kingsbury, whom I worked 
under in France. Dr. Kingsbury recommended me to Aubrey Williams 
as a consultant who might help him get his organization working 
with the Farm Security Administration or other departments of 
government in developing opportunities for youth. The Youth Ad 
ministration would carry through the educational end of it but 
there would be opportunities in agriculture and in industry that 
could be developed, if the Youth Administration could make ar 
rangements for help from other agencies. 

So 1 went to Washington and worked with Aubrey off and on 
for a couple of years. I went ahead with the idea of working with 
the Farm Security Administration in developing farms for youths, 
particularly in the South where the local Youth Administration 
leaders could get opportunities for settlement for young people 
who came off the farm and had been trained in agriculture but had 
no place to go. We thought the Farm Security could finance them 
on farms that would be big enough so they d make a reasonable 
living . 


Packard: Kingsbury and I went on a trip through the southern states 
to report on what the National Youth Administration was doing. 
We went from Georgia to Florida and west through to Arkansas, 
visiting the National Youth Administration organizations and 
seeing what they were doing. On this trip with Kingsbury through 
the South we stopped at the Tennessee Valley Authority area, went 
over the area with officials of the organization. I made a talk 
there proposing that the TVA work with the Youth Administration 
in developing projects in which the Youth Administration could 

I came back to Washington with a very keen admiration for 
the work the National Youth Administration was doing in education. 
They were giving the young people a very practical education, so 
when they got through they would be able to get jobs away from 
others who were not so well trained. I felt that they would be 
a favored economic group. But I didn t see any basic planning 
on the part of any of the administrators, either local or state. 
So I came back with the feeling that although these young people 
were being trained in techniques, etc. they were learning nothing 
about the society they were living in. They were, consequently, 
unable to act intelligently to change things, which I felt would 
be necessary in order to provide employment, because unemployment 
was a very serious matter, especially in the South. 

As a result I thought of preparing an economic primer that 
could be distributed to the students and administrative personnel, 
giving the basic facts of life. After working three or four weeks 


Packard: on this primer I came to the conclusion that it was far too deep 
a subject to be covered in so short a time. The book that I ve 
been working on ever since and that I m still hoping to get out 
is that primer. (Laughter) 

Baum: Were you commissioned to do that? 

Packard: Yes. But I gave it up after a short time when I found it was 
impossible to do what I had in mind. 

I did various minor errands for Aubrey Williams, writing 
material for him and that sort of thing, including some work 
here in California in cooperation with the local state director. 

Consultant for the Farm Security Administration in Oregon 

One of the most important assignments I had as a consultant 
was with the Farm Security Administration in Portland. I fol 
lowed through on my original study of the Columbia Basin Project. 
I made a different kind of a report for the Farm Security Admin 
istration on the settlement problem. How it could be settled 
and the plans for doing it whereby the Farm Security Administration 
in that area would supplement what the Bureau of Reclamation was 
doing by providing loans for development work and by giving ad 
vice to the settlers. 

I also made a special study of Linn County in central Oregon,* 
a typical area on the east side of the Willamette Valley extending 
to the crest of the Cascade Mountains. The study included both 
forestry and agriculture. My report was in considerable detail, 
showing how the economy of the area could be developed with a 

* "Post War Future of a Western Community," Farm Security Admin 
istration, November, 1943. A copy of this report is available in 
the Bancroft Library. 


Packard: sustained program of reforestation in the mountains, which was not 
then being done, and where agriculture and forestry could work to 
gether in developing as complete a program for the county as we 
could get. Copies of Hie study were distributed through the area 
and as a result the head of the University of Idaho s economics 
department wanted to have studies of the same kind made in every 
county in Idaho. I was working under the general supervision of 
Lee Fryer who later on wrote a book on my Linn County report.* 


My work in the Northwest was not continuous. I went back and 
forth from Berkeley to Portland several times. I filled in this 
spare time with various short term jobs. One of these included a 
reconnaisance study of the worst part of the Dust Bowl in Oklahoma, 
New Mexico, and Colorado. I attended a conference on the Dust 
Bowl problem in Amarillo as a representative of the Farm Security 
Administration in Region 9. 
Wasn t that for the Bureau of Reclamation? 

No, irrigation was not the main problem. The Bureau of Reclamation 
is primarily interested in irrigation. The issue was whether or 
not to try to resettle the area that had been so badly damaged by 

*Lee Fryer phoned from Washington, D. C. laftt August (1966) saying 

lie was using the Linn County report as a basis for work he waa 

in the southern states. lie was bringing the ideas up to date to adapt 

to local conditions. I have not heard from him since, so I don t 

know the results. (E.L.P.) 


Packard: drought and winds and how it could be done with safety. H.E. 
Henson, who had been my chief assistant during my resettlement 
days in Washington, was in charge of the Amarillo office. 

In 1941 I began to have trouble with the eye that had been 
operated on for cataract in 1930. A Portland doctor prescribed 
some new glasses which did not help. When I got back to San 
Francisco I went to my old eye doctor (Otto Barkan) who found 
that I had an advanced case of glaucoma and needed an immediate 
operation. The first operation was not successful, but the 
second, which required eleven stitches, corrected the trouble. 

Baum: You were lucky to preserve your eyesight. 

Packard: Yes, I was. I depended almost wholly on that left eye until 
1947 when I had a cataract operation on my right eye. 

Consultant for the United States Indian Service 

Another position was with the Indian Service. I was em 
ployed as a consultant for summer school work, where Indian 
Bureau supervisors came from all over the Western states for 
conference and study. My particular job was dealing with the 
resettlement and irrigation, principally irrigation. John 
Collier was head of the Indian Bureau at that time. 

The first meeting was at Riverside, California, and it was 
a delightful experience working with a new group entirely. And 
to get in touch with what they were doing was really quite in 
spiring. The second meeting was at Fort Wingate , New Mexico. 


Packard: During that time we visited a large number of the interesting 

Indian settlements in both Arizona and New Mexico. That summer 
I had to take three days off and fly up to Oregon to meet M.L. 
Wilson who was coming to visit the Columbia Basin Project. I 
met him at Wenatcliec at the direction of Walter Duffy. 

1 got back to Fort Wingate and was there not more than ten 
days when 1 had to take another leave to fly up to Denver for a 
meeting in Estes Park on the Great Plains area. This meeting 
had been called by M.L. Wilson who was Undersecretary of Ag 
riculture at that time. He was a classmate of mine at Ames and 
I knew him well. He was a very interesting person. He worked 
with Professor Holden in Iowa during those early days when they 
were growing "two blades of grass where one grew before". M.L. 
was Holden s principal assistant. He later went to Montana as 
head of the Extension Service there. He worked with large wheat 
growers, including Mr. Campbell who was supposed to be the 
greatest wheat grower in the world. Because of his experience in 
large scale wheat farming, Russia asked for his services. That 
was shortly after President Roosevelt had recognized Russia, 
when many American technicians, including A. P. Davis, Chief of 
the Reclamation Service, went to Russia to assist in resources 
development work. 

Baum: Why didn t you go? 

Packard: 1 would I Liu- I o have; gono but I had no skills that the Russians 

wanted. This was in spite of the recommendation that Rhys Williams, 


Packard: whoml have mentioned before, said he gave me. Rhys described 
me as "a cross between Jesus Christ and Lenin". But that was 
not enough. (Laughter) 

Work with the Commonwealth Club of California 

For a period of two years I served as chairman of the Ag 
ricultural Section of the Commonwealth Club. We had well-attended 
regular meetings, discussing a wide range of subjects, most of 
which were controversial. Harry Me Clelland, then with the Bank 
of America and later head of the Marshall Plan work in Italy, and 
a very good friend of mine, called me the commissar. It was at 
a time when the Associated Farmers were very active. I had the 
head of that organization as the speaker at one of the meetings. 
The work finally resulted in the preparation of a Commonwealth 
Club report on problems of tenure and the role of the state and 
federal government in agricultural affairs. It supported the 
liberal viewpoint and was opposed by some as being too radical. 
It was, however, generally acclaimed as a constructive document. 

California State Land Classification Commission 

Towards the end of the Olson administration I was appointed 
by the governor to the State Land Classification Commission which 
had been authorized by the state legislature the year before. I m 
somewhat reluctant to list this item because my tenure of office 
was exceedingly short. But the work was somewhat exciting, and 
the results were very positive. Both during the depression and 
normal years a large number of parcels of real property became 


Packard: delinquent and, after a lapse of five years, were deeded to the 
state of California for tax delinquency. The total area of 
delinquent land amounted to an area larger than the state of Con 
necticut. Some of this land was not really capable of supporting 
a tax burden and, in fact, some was wasteland. Other land was 
capable of paying its portion of county taxes in normal years, 
but by reason oJ" cither a depression or the inability of a former 
owner to exploit its possibilities, they became tax delinquents 
and were removed from the tax rolls. Under the California system 
prior to 1941, all this land was subject to redemption at any 
time prior to tax sales. As an inevitable result the wasteland 
went back time and time again to private ownership, mainly through 
tax sales at what looked on the surface like bargain prices. But 
after a short period it again became delinquent, causing more 
expense for the county than the tax received. And in many cases 
this caused financial disaster to the persons who attempted to 
use the property. The land which was capable of profitable use 
went back to private ownership to some extent. 

But certain problems appeared. In the first place a portion 
of the land was redeemed by persons who could not or would not 
operate the property so as to keep it off the delinquent rolls. 
Secondly, there was a very great deterrent to persons desiring 
to purchase this land at tax sales because of the possibility 
that there would be a redemption prior to the date of sale, in 
which case all their plans and efforts would be wasted. It was 


Packard: found also that there was a public need for some of this property 
which was far more beneficial to the public than would be the 
case if the properties were in private ownership. 

It was felt by those interested in all phases of the problem 
that the two most important steps to be taken towards a solution 
were the termination of the rights of redemption and the creation 
of a system of classification of tax deeded properties. There 
fore, at the first extra session of the fifty-third legislature, 
the legislature enacted and Governor Olson approved, an act for 
this dual purpose. This act provided for a termination of the 
rights of redemption of all tax-deeded properties and provided 
for a Land Classification Commission to be appointed by the 
governor. The Commission was empowered to classify all tax- 
deeded lands after proper study into three classifications: suit 
able for private use, suitable for public use, and wasteland. It 
was also empowered to seek recommendations for the rehabilitation 
of wastelands. The right of the legislature to terminate the 
right of redemption in this was was challenged in the courts, with 
the result that the State Supreme Court ruled by a 4 to 5 decision 
that the legislature had no such right. 

The Land Classification Commission was appointed in December, 
1942, somewhat after the Supreme Court had handed down this de 
cision. It consisted of three members: Louis Bartlett of 
Berkeley, Carl A. Peterson of Los Angeles, and myself. At the 
first meeting of the Commission in December, 1942, I was elected 


Packard: chairman. The Commission was apprised of the decision of the 
Court by J. Rupert Mason*, who wanted a rehearing of the case 
in the hope that the will of the legislature might be carried 
out. As it happened, Earl Warren was the Attorney General who 
had presented the case before the Supreme Court which led to 
the decision, which, in effect, largely nullified the ability 
of the Commission to fulfill its purposes. 

As a result of all this the Commission asked the Democratic 
Attorney General, Robert W. Kenny, to petition the Court for a 
rehearing. This was done by the presentation of a brief amicus 
curiae , by Kenny, the Attorney General, H.H. Kinney, the As 
sistant Attorney General, Adrian A. Kragen, Deputy Attorney 
General, and an attorney for the Land Classification Commission. 
The rehearing was granted and the decision of the court was re 
versed. The next event so far as I was concerned was the receipt 
of a letter from Governor Warren announcing my removal from office, 

Baum: Warren was in favor of the work that was going to be undertaken 

* Bartlett, Louis, "Memoirs", typed transcript of tape-recorded 
interview, University of California Bancroft Library Regional Oral 
History Office (Berkeley, 1957) pp. 212. 

*Mason, J. Rupert, "On Single Tax, Irrigation Districts, and Muni 
cipal Bankruptcy", typed transcript of tape-recorded interview, 
University of California Bancroft Library Regional Oral History 
Office (Berkeley, 1958) pp. 355. 


Baum: by the Land Classification Commission, wasn t he? 

Packard: Warren was the attorney who had carried through the first decision. 

Baum: But he had carried it through in favor of the Land Classification 

Packard: No, against it. 

Baum: Oh, he had worked against it. Oh, I see. 

Packard: The unfavorable decision was carried through the courts by Earl 
Warren. And then the Democratic governor came in and the thing 
was reversed. And that ruling has stood ever since. 

Baum: After you were removed from the Commission, did the Commission 
continue with new appointees? 

Packard: No, the Commission was abolished by the new governor. 

Baum: So the work didn t go forward, anyway. 

Packard: No. But the decision stood and the land is being classified in 

that way. The idea was carried out, although not by the Commission. 

Baum: So your part in that government was one month. (Laughter) 

Packard: Yes. In later years I got to admire Warren very much. I think 
he s one of the great men of the age. Everybody recognizes that 
Governor Warren made a very marked change in his philosophy when 
he became governor. Whether or not the following had anything to 
do with it it s an interesting fact: Earl Warren called on my broth 
er in Los Angeles, and said, "I m illiterate on social problems. 
I know nothing about them". 

Baum: Was this after he was governor? 

Packard: No, before, when lie was running for governor. 


Packard: He said, "I understand you re a socialist." (My brother was 
one of the national directors of the Socialist Party) "I want 
to talk with you and I want you to give me some books that I can 
read and then come back and see you again." So John gave him 
some books and talked to him about the program of the Socialist 
Party. He came back two other times for more books and more con 
versation on social problems. As a result, John was appointed 
to the Labor Relations Commission. He was a labor lawyer. And 
he helped organize the first American Civil Liberties Union. He 
defended Upton Sinclair when he was arrested for reading the Bill 
of Rights in Long Beach. 

Baum: Well, Earl Warren was in favor of the Japanese evacuation. I 
don t think he would have been in favor of that later. 

Packard: I don t believe he would have either. He made a very abrupt 

change in his whole philosophy. He became a very marvelous liberal 
governor . 

Baum: And more of a change when he became Chief Justice of the United 
States Supreme Court. 

Packard: Yes. He s been very excellent. 

Work on the Central Valley Project 

I became very interested in the Central Valley Project which 
was then being advocated. The state wanted to transfer water from 
the Sacramento Valley where water was plentiful to the upper San 
Joaquin where the water supply was short and where the water table 
was dropping due to excessive pumping. The group behind this 


Packard: proposal wanted to avoid the acreage restriction and public power 
policies of the Bureau of Reclamation. The large land owners 
thought they could get the water they needed on their own terms. 
I became quite active in opposition to this plan and in favor of 
a similar project to be constructed and controlled by the United 
States Bureau of Reclamation. The state plan collapsed because 
of the difficulty of floating the necessarily large bond issue. 
The only alternative was to appeal to the federal government and 
accept the provisions of the Reclamation Act. 

I have already recorded the work I did for the Bureau of 
Reclamation in making a reconnaisance soil survey of Tulare County, 
and making an economic analysis of benefits for the State Engineers 
office. My next assignment in connection with the Central Valley 
Project was to prepare a report on "The Economic Implications of 
the Central Valley Project" for the Haynes Foundation in Los 
Angeles. I felt that very little attention was being paid to 
the economic and social issues involved in the project. (Page 
47, report): "The fact that modern equipment enables one man to 
operate a much larger area than formerly alters many of the basic 
relationships which are attached, traditionally, to the family farm 
pattern. The modern mechanized farm operated by the owner is not 
the family farm of former days. It requires many adjustments in 
social and economic relationships of a far reaching character. 
The problems that this type of farm raises are more like those of 
the larger industrialized farm than like those of the old homestead 
pattern. Labor relationships, land relationships, markets, con- 


Packard: sumer interests all involve new viewpoints and a new social pat 
tern. The old ways of doing things are not suited to present 
conditions. New policies governing land, labor and capital are 
needed. New social inventions must be developed to meet the cir 
cumstances, just as the corporation was developed to give investors 
in England an opportunity for participating in overseas enterprise 
or as democracy developed out of New World experience." 

Baum: I know it was a very controversial issue. I guess by 1941 it was 
very controversial, not so much in 1936 or so. 

Packard: The Central Valley Project Act was passed by the Congress to fi 
nance this big development. That act declared that "the construc 
tion, operation, and maintenance of the Central Valley Project is 
hereby declared to be in all respects for the welfare and benefit 
of the people of the state for the improvement of their prosperity 
and their living conditions. And this act shall be liberally con 
strued to effectuate the purposes and objectives thereof. Unless 
something is done to prevent it, the construction of the Central 
Valley Project may enhance an already badly balanced economy." 

Baum: So you thought its economic implications were good. 

Packard: Yes. But I felt that nobody was paying any attention to the mo 
tives and underlying principles of the Bureau of Reclamation. They 
were just going ahead and building a reclamation project. And the 
big landowners of the upper San Joaquin Valley were trying in every 
way to take advantage of the situation and not subdivide their 
land. And the idea was to have private power. 


Packard: The war had started when I was in Portland. And when I came 
back I found that the Power Committee of the War Production Board 
had been organized. Mr. James Black, President of P.G. and E., 
had been appointed as chairman of the committee. One of the 
first acts of the committee was to stop the development of pub 
lic power at Shasta Dam and authorize the construction of a much 
smaller hydroelectric project by the P.G. and E. , on the tributary 
going into the Shasta Reservoir. Well, this irritated me ter 
rifically because I was a very strong believer in public power. 
But I felt there was nothing to be done. 

But then when I got back to Berkeley and was talking to Paul 
Taylor, I found that the Kern County Land Company was planning to 
do a similar thing. They had been able to get a $25,000,000 ap 
propriation from the Congress to build the Friant-Kern Canal for 
the war effort so that the Kern County Land Company could get water 
for their land and "feed the boys over there". It was then up to 
the War Production Board to determine whether or not this money 
should be spent as a war effort. So I worked with the men that I 
had worked with before in the Bureau of Agricultural Economics 
here in Berkeley and with Paul Taylor. We prepared a six-page 
letter to Marvin Jones who was the head of that committee that 
would determine the feasibility of this project as a war measure. 
I was a consultant then and could do as I pleased. I wasn t re 
strained by the Hatch Act. So I was the one that had to sign 
the letter. It was a very definite letter. We sent it out to a 


Packard: number of people and I went to Washington at my own expense, 

thinking that I could supplement the letter by personal contacts. 

I went to Ernie Weeking first , because he was head of the 
Land Planning Division of the United States Department of Agri 
culture. I showed him my letter. He read the first paragraph 
and kind of turned pale, and he said, "Walter, has this letter 
gone out?" And I said, "It has, I ve sent it out to as many 
people as I could think of". Then he looked at the paper through 
the light. And I said, "No, Ernie, it s not on government station 
ary. It s on paper that I bought myself". (Laughter) And then he 
said, "Well, Walter, what do you want me to do?" I said, "All I 
want is to have some of your boys who helped me prepare this let 
ter in Berkeley come to Washington to help me at the hearing". 
He said, "Please don t ask me to do that. We ve got to let the 
Kern County Land Company get the water for now and then later on, 
after the war is over, we ll try and get it back. But we ve got 
to let them have it now." I said, "All right, it doesn t make any 
difference. If that s the way you feel, why okay." 

Then I called Abe Fortas , the Undersecretary of the Department 
of Interior. He said Mr. Ickes had just received my letter that 
morning and was very much disturbed because Ickes felt the pro 
posed construction might be an opportunity for the Bureau of 
Reclamation to help in the war effort. Everybody was trying to 
justify appropriations on the basis of doing something for the 
war effort. Mr. Fortas told me chat he thought Ickes would prob- 


Packard: ably decide to fight me at the hearing but he said he d call me 
back. They were having a meeting that afternoon with the Bureau 
of Reclamation s officials. So he called me back and said that 
Ickes had decided to go ahead with the project anyway and to 
fight me at the hearings. He was very much irritated by the 
whole thing. 

Then I called Tom Blaisdell who was Undersecretary of Com 
merce and talked the thing over with him. He immediately called 
the War Production Board and got the man who was in charge of this 
committee that was to hold the hearing. He was an admiral in the 
navy and he said that he d just resigned that day and another man 
was taking over the next day. This man happened to be a friend 
of Tom Blaisdell s. They had worked together on the Planning 
Board and he was thoroughly familiar with the idea of economic and 
social planning. So Tom made an appointment for me with him the 
next day. I had ample time to present the whole thing; give 
him my maps and my data and go over the issues in great detail 
with the technicians of the War Production Board Committee. 

By that time the news had gotten out over the state that I was 
opposing the project and editorials in the paper were very much 
against me and wondered why I was going there stopping a California 
project. Wires and telephone messages came to Washington. Finally 
the deputy engineer of the State Engineer s office, Mr. Matthews, 
whom I knew, flew into Washington and came to see me right away. 
He said that if I went to the hearing that afternoon and presented 


Packard: what he thought I was going to present, I would never be able 
to make my living in the state. He said, "Unless you have a 
private income you won t be able to get a job in the state and 
we ll see to it that you don t. We just can not have this kind 
of thing going on." Well, it frightened me considerably. When 
I went to the hearing, a labor man and I were the only ones that 
opposed the project. The Department of Agriculture was there 
supporting it, the Bureau of Recla nation for the Interior was 
supporting it. 

So the next day on my way bac<c to California I stopped in 
Chicago and dictated a statement for a notary public and signed 
it, outlining this attempt at blackmail. I sent it along to the 
chairman of the committee, who by then I d known quite well. So, 
when I got back to Berkeley I went to see the Bureau of Agricul 
tural Economics boys here to report and they all had heard that 
I had given up and that I hadn t made any fight. That was prin 
cipally because I had done it quietly, ahead of the hearing. So 
that there wasn t much publicity about it. But that afternoon, 
while we were there, the radio carried the news that the applica 
tion was denied. Governor Warren was very much concerned about 
it and he wired the President saying that this was an outrage and 
that California should have this project. 

So I called Professor Etcheverry, who was head of the Irriga 
tion Engineering Department at the University, and sent him a copy 
of the letter, lie Ha id, "I called in all the old consultants, the 


Packard: people who had worked with you before, and we spent several 

hours in going over your letter, I can tell you that we agreed 
unanimously that you were correct. And you can tell the governor 
I said so." So I went right up to Sacramento to see the governor. 
He was out of town but the head of the Bureau of Public Works was 
there and I talked with him and explained the issue. He was quite 
concerned and thought the governor was, perhaps, making a mistake 
in making this protest. He said he would tell him so. 

Then I went over to the State Engineer s Office. I first 
saw Hyatt, whom I d known for a long time and had worked for. 
He called in Edmondson who, when he saw me said, "Goddam you, 
Walter, you had a hell of a nerve to do what you did". Not to 
be outdone, I replied by saying, "Goddam you and your office. You 
had a hell of a nerve to present the sort of testimony you sup 
ported in Washington. You were wrong and you know it." After 
this exchange of courtesies I told them what Matthews had done and 
explained my position. We talked there for about an hour and a 
half in very direct conversation, very friendly however. And 
when we finished Hyatt said, "Walter, I know this won t help the 
war effort just as well as you do, but as long as I see the govern 
ment spending other money as uselessly as this, I m going to sup 
port the project." And that was that. 

The governor did not withdraw his request for a new hearing. 
So the War Production Board decided to hold another hearing here 
in California where California interests could be represented. 
The man in charge of San Francisco called me and said, "We re 


Packard: "not going to invite you to this hearing. But I m going to give 
you a transcript of the hearing and ask for your analysis." So 
when the time came he sent me a copy of all the testimony that 
had been given at the hearing and I made my comments on it by 
letter to him. He called me up and I went up to see him and he 
said, "We re going to back you again. I think you re right. 
The other people are obviously wrong". So the project didn t go 
through and, because of that, the 160-acre limitation provision 
of the Reclamation Act still had some validity. If the proposal 
had gone through I think that all the efforts to re-establish any 
economic controls would be hopclcs.s. 

Baum: Did Paul Taylor work with you in that particular battle? 

Packard: Yes, of course. 

Baum: Well, I m surprised that you could win that battle. 

War Related Activities 

When it was decided to evacuate the Japanese from coastal 
areas I felt that the Japanese who were citizens of California 
had the right to remain where they were. So I called a group to 
gether and we wrote a very strong statement to General De Witt, 
who was in charge of the evacuation, protesting the removal of 
the Japanese -American citizens. This was signed by Ray Lyman 
Wilbur of Stanford, by Monroe Deut:sch, the Provost Marshall of 
the University of California, by Frank Duveneck of Palo Alto, 
and others of that stamp. I got a phone call from Milton 
Eisenhower, whom I knew, and he wanted me to go over and see him. 


Packard: He said, "What business is it of yours, Walter, to write a letter 
like this? This is ridiculous, this is a war measure." And he 
gave me a long talk of that kind. It was obvious that nothing 
could be done. Anyway, that was one protest signed by a great 
many good people. 

Baum: There was a lot about that I guess about a year or so ago. I 
think there were many protests. I can recall that many people 
were very concerned about it. A lot of them wrote letters or did 
something . 

Packard: Yes. But this was an official act. The Quakers protested. I 
went down with a Quaker committee l:o Tanforan race track, which 
was the first landing place for many of the Japanese evacuees, 
some of whom occupied horse stalls. 

Another activity was a letter that I wrote to General Hershey, 
in which I suggested that the army organize the conscientious ob 
jectors for work in California. There was a great deal of ag 
ricultural work where there was a labor shortage and these con 
scientious objectors could be used very successfully here in 
California doing work that was very badly needed. 

California Housing and Planning Association 

Part of the work I did on the Central Valley Project was done 
as chairman of the Central Valley Committee of the California 
Housing and Planning Association. This work was financed by a 
New York foundation. I had taken a leading part in an effort to 
get the Bureau of Reclamation to inaugurate a comprehensive study 


Packard: of the economic and social implications of the reclamation program, 
in the hope of finding some way of preserving the social values 
associated with the concept of the family farm and still gaining 
the advantages of modern technology. A very elaborate study was 
carried out under the direction of a geographer at the University 
of Chicago. But in my judgment the study became so broad that the 
results were meaningless. 

An incident associated with my work for the Housing and 
Planning Association and the Kern County land case may be worth 
recording. When I was in Washington on that Kern County land 
case, Robert Kenny, who was then Attorney General, was in Wash 
ington. I told him about Matthews and what Matthews had told 
me, and secured his complete backing. He said, "Of course you 
should go to the hearing and you should give your full testimony." 
There was one particular argument that was presented in favor of 
getting this appropriation which Kenny said was thoroughly 
ridiculous. He was very emphatic about it, saying that no one 
would take the argument seriously. When I got the transcript 
of the hearing in San Francisco, here was Kenny, the only man 
in the whole hearing who gave that testimony. He was the only 
one who mentioned it. 

Baum: The one he said was so ridiculous? 

Packard: Yes, the same. 

At the next annual meeting of the Housing and Planning As 
sociation, Bob Kenny was elected president and at the first 


Packard: meeting of the new board of directors, of which I had been one, 
the Central Valley Project Committee was abolished. I have al 
ways thought that this action was part of the threat made by 
Mut thews that If I testified at the Washington hearing against 
the Kern County Land Company, I would not be able to make my 
living in the state. Just how Kenny got involved has always 
been a mystery. But the incident marked the end of the old road 
for me. I was able to get some odd jobs as consultant at a per 
diem of from $50 to $100 per day, but no public employment in 
which I was interested was open to me. So I wrote to Dr. Tugwell, 
then Governor of Puerto Rico, telling him of my plight. The re 
turn letter offered me a job as land consultant in the governor s 
office at a salary of $7,500 per year which I of course accepted. 


Getting Settled in Puerto Rico 

Packard: I accepted Governor Tugwell s offer by wire and prepared 
to leave for Puerto Rico. We sold our car at the OPA price, 
which was much leas than we could have gotten on the black market, 
and very much less than we could have gotten if we d driven it to 
Puerto Rico and sold it there. We rented our house, also at OPA 
prices, and had a rather interesting experience with a tenant 
who had had experience with other property owners. After tel 
ling him what the rental would be, he agreed. And then he asked, 
"What more do I have to pay?" I said, "What do you mean by that?" 
And he said, "There s always some kind of a penalty you ve got to 
pay in addition to the OPA rent." I said, "Well, not in this 
case. Tho OPA price stands." He was rather surprised to be able 
to get the house for that price. 

Baum: Those were in the days when you paid $1,000 "for the furniture"-- 
an old broken-down bed. 

Packard: Yes. Well, I went to Puerto Rico ahead of Emma. I met Tugwell 
in Miami and got a general idea about what I was going to do. 
I went on from there to San Juan flying over Cuba, Haiti and 
Santo Domingo, which gave me a nice bird s eye view of those 
islands. When I got to Puerto Rico I was very much impressed by 
the extent of the sugar cane fields that occupied nearly all of 
the levol land on tho coastal plains. I was Impressed, too, by 


Packard: the slums at El Fanguito which we could see quite clearly from 

the air. The little houses were on stilts in the water and they 
were connected by boardwalks. You could see, even from the air, 
what a terrible condition it was in. At that time it was rated 
as being one of the worst slums in the world.* 

Kama: Was Liu? war still in progress whc:n you went to Puerto Rico? 

Packard: Yc-s. The war with Germany was over but the war with Japan was 
still on. 

Nobody met me at the airport so I went directly to the 
Normandie Hotel where I was told I would stay. I was very much 
impressed with the large swimming pool in the main lobby but quite 
shocked to find that my room cost $15 per day. After getting 
things settled in my room I took a taxi to La Fortaleza to meet 
Mrs. Tugwell. We had lunch together on a delightful balcony 
overlooking Sen Juan harbor. I found that the government had 
commandeered the second and third floors of the hotel and that I 
would be transferred to a room costing $2.50 per day. The em 
ployees living there had organized a special cooperative dining 
room where we got meals at a very reasonable rate. I walked back 
to the hotel in high spirits to meet the group with whom I would 
be associated for the next two and a half years. 

Baum: I don t quite understand. You got a room for $15 a day ... 

Packard: Yes. If I had been met by the man that was to meet me -- the 

Governor s military attach^ -- he would have put me into the right 
quarters. But I didn t know about that. I was rather nervous 

*Current reports indicate that, although it has been pushed back, 
it is still a terrible slum. [E.L.P.] 


Packard : 


for a while because I thought that if I had to pay $15 for my 
room I wouldn t make any money. 

Mrs. Packard went to New York to be with my sister, Stella, 
who was quite ill. Emma stayed in New York for two or three 
months, doing what she could to help Stella. She finally got 
her into a hospital and got a diagnosis which proved that Stella 
had a terminal cancer, although she wasn t told. 

I got her into St. Luke s Hospital first, where they couldn t 
keep her because they didn t keep patients with long illnesses. 
So I got her into a very lovely Episcopalian place which they 
called the Home for the Incurables. I understand they ve changed 
their name since. I couldn t get any prediction as to how long 
she would be there. So I finally decided that I would go on to 
Puerto Rico. The weather was ghastly hot in New York. And there 
was nothing I could do but just sit around. There were other close 
friends and relatives who could do whatever was needed. 

Then I flew clown to Miami and then to Puerto Rico. I had 
an interesting experience on the plane. Most of the people on 
the plane were colored, people going back to Puerto Rico. I hap 
pened to be sitting with a very attractive young colored girl. 
And in talking I found that she was from the Virgin Islands and 
had gone to Pratt Institute and graduated in dress designing. She 
had been working with Hattie Carnegie in New York, designing 
dresses. We stopped off in Miami and stayed overnight. The bus 
landed us in downtown Miami and porters from the hotels came with 



Packard: hand carts to take our baggage. And she had said, "Do you mind 

if I go to the hotel with you?" And I caught immediately that 
she was alone and she just didn t know what to do and knew that 
she d have trouble, but maybe not if she was with me. So, im 
mediately, the colored boy who had the hand cart said, "No, there 
ain t no more rooms there". I thought, if I were alone I m sure 
there would be. So I said, "Where can you take us?" Nothing at 
all was said, and he said, "There s a place over here that you 
can go to. It s a perfectly decent place." We went over and it 
was completely clean and respectable. There were no questions 
asked. We went up and took adjoining rooms. So, it was a pleasant 
association because she was a very superior little gal. Some 
months later we went over to the Virgin Islands and I tried to 
find her but she wasn t there. I found out, however, that she 
finally married a Hawaiian doctor and went to Hawaii. But I found 
that her family was one of the leading families in St. Thomas. 
Packard: Emma finally joined me in Puerto Rico. I met her at the airport 
and, after depositing her tilings at the hotel, we had a ride on 
the strootcur which ol.rcLt-d through San Juan and then through 
Sunturce on a figure eight tour. The trade wind was blowing a 
refreshing breeze while we rode slowly past old Spanish forts 
and through the bustling streets of that historic setting. No 
thing could have been a better introduction to the two and a half 
years we spent in Puerto Rico. 

Our room at the hotel was like all the others. The entrance 
was on a balcony surrounding the lobby with its large swimming 


Packard: pool. A door on the opposite side of the room led to an open air 
lanai which permitted the trade wind to blow through the room as 
an endless source of comfort. 

One fact which made our stay at the Normandie so pleasant 
was the character of many of the occupants of the two government 
reserved floors. Clarence Senior and his charming wife Ruth were 
our neighbors. Clarence is now on the New York school board but 
his main interest is still the Puerto Rican problem. Ed and Louise 
Rosskam, Charles and Adcle Rotkin, the Jack Delanos, Fred and Janet 
Farr and their children*, Max and Marjorie Egloff, William and 
Wilma Ludlow, Vernon and Betty De Mars and others of like character 
made an interesting company of kindred souls. 

Baum: Vernon De Mars was down there then? 

Packard: Yes, he came a year after we arrived to serve as the Governor s 
naval attache 1 , as well as to work with me on housing design and 
the like. He had been doing Coast Guard duty in Florida and was 

Baum: Did all the Americans live at the Normandie? 

Packard: No. Sonic of them chose to rent hcmes in Santurce or Rio Piedros. 

* July, 1967 -- Fred Farr was appointed to & federal job in Washington after 
the 1966 election when he was defeated as state senator. [E.L.P] 


Packard: But wherever they lived they were a part of the congenial group. 
My office was in La Fortaleza, a beautiful old Spanish building, 
a portion of which was built in Ponce de Leon s time. A tropical 
garden and a spacious promenade guarded by ancient Spanish can 
nons bordered La Fortaleza on the west toward the bay, and formed 
a perfect setting for official parties. Under a full moon, with 
a Puerto Rican orchestra playing and Puerto Rican rum flowing 
rather freely, those parties were something to remember. A pool 
of cars wiLh drivers was stationed in the patio so that whenever 
I was on any official business 1 always had a car with a driver 
which made it very convenient because we had no car of our own. 

Reforms Under the Popular Party and Governor Tugwell 

My desk was located on the first floor right next to the 
desk occupied by Elmer Ellsworth, the Governor s Executive Secre 
tary. Elmer, a Harvard man who owned a small but fascinating 
"finca" in the mountain area fifteen miles or so south of San 
Juan, joined a triumverate of Puerto Ricans -- Luis Mufioz Marln, 
Jesus T. Pinoro , and Jaime Bcnitcz who engineered the organiza 
tion of the Popular Party which took control of the political 
life of Puerto Rico in a bloodless revolution. I was, therefore, 
in an excellent position to get the inside story of that rather 
astonishing movement. 

Baum: What was astonishing about it? 

Packard: It was the way they reached the people. The standard of living 
of the rural masses was abysmally low, much below that of the 


Packard: peoples of the poorest state in the United States. As Governor 
Tugwell described it later, "Most of the island s people were 
sunk in helpless poverty." The group, with Munoz , always the 
tireless leader, carried out a tremendous campaign, reaching into 
every section of the island. They first formulated a program to 
lift the people out of their poverty and then convinced the voters 
that they were sincere and that the individual would get much 
more return by backing the Popular Party than by selling his vote 
to the conservatives. Where they were kept out of properties by 
the landowners they reached the people by loudspeakers. 

Baum: It was a truly democratic movement? 

Packard: Yes, it was. I had never heard of anything quite like it before. 
This means of gaining political control was used also in main 
taining it. 

Ed Rosskam became head of an educational program while we 
were in Puerto Rico which impressed me as being a very intelligent 
means of getting popular support of administration policies. 
Whenever new programs were to be launched or existing policies 
defended from attack, this educational group of writers and 
artists would prepare charts, cartoons, and both still and moving 
pictures to illustrate the nature and importance of the issues in 
volved. Then, with the aid of a number of jeeps meetings would be 
held all over the island so that everyone had a chance of becoming 
informed. The University of Puerto Rico, under the able leadership 
of Chancellor Jaime Bcnitez, added greatly to this educational 


Packard: program by training technicians. It helped too by training 

workers for work in the factories and mills. The school system, 
generally, was greatly expanded. 

Mrs. Roosevelt was very active in the establishment of 
schools and in the establishment of housing. A Housing Auth 
ority was created which built low-cost housing throughout the 
island. They gradually attacked the slum areas. El Fanguito 
was eventually practically eliminated and the people were given 
jobs and acquired humus. 

Bauin: What about hygiene and health problems? 

Packard: These issues were often discussed in great detail, with illustra 
tive material, showing how germs act in carrying disease. 

The significance of the Popular Party movement was closely 
associated with the history of events following the Spanish- 
American War. General Miles, who was the commanding officer in 
Puerto Rico when the island was taken over by American forces in 
1898, made a commitment for the United States which the people 
of the occupied island still recall. "The military forces came 
bearing the banner of freedom, bringing the fostering arm of a 
nation of free people whose greatest power is in justice and 
humanity to all those living within its folds." He went on to 
say that "Americans come not to make war but to bring protection, 
to promote prosperity, and to bestow the immunities and blessings 
of the liberal institutions of our government". The people of 
Puerto Rico accepted this as a kind of contract and waited for 
its fulfillment. But it had never come in such a degree as to 


Packard: satisfy the pride and ambition of those who welcomed the occupa 
tion. A generation had lived almost a lifetime facing uncompleted 
promises. Economically, most of the population lived below what 
was considered by American standards to be a minimum for health. 
There was widespread malnutrition, a higher incidence of sick 
ness and death than prevail in any part of the United States. 
Their housing was poor, their institutions -- schools, hospitals, 
water, sewage disposal system, and welfare services -- were in 
adequate. It was a matter of doubt whether the mass of the 
Puerto Rican people faced a future more secure than was the case 
at the time of the American occupation. 

Governor Tugwell s appointment supplemented the election of 
Mufloz Marin as head of the Popular Party, so there was a complete 
New Deal administration in the island. Tugwell was actually ap 
pointed by the President, but through the Department of the In 
terior. And the Department of the Interior was responsible, in 
the United States, for the Reclamation Service with its 160-acre 
limitation provision, public power policy, and its Works Progress 
Administration. It was also in charge of Indian Affairs. In 
other words, the Department was in tune with the needs of the 
people of the island. So there was no antagonism in theory be 
tween American interests and the Puerto Ricans. 

Baum: I saw one of Dr. Tugwell s books, Battle for Democracy, and he d 
written about three people and one of them was Mufloz Marln. And 
he called him "an effective democratic leader". 


Packard: Yes, Tugwell thought highly of Muftoz Marln s social viewpoint, 

but they did not always agree on procedures. Tugwell, after all, 
did not have to rely on votes to keep in office. He gave ter 
rific leadorship to the programs of reform of the Popular Party. 
Many of the projects started were socialistic, that is, involved 
public ownership of key industries and services, which, of course, 
disturbed the conservatives in the United States. But the major 
ity of the Puerto Ricans approved everything that was being done. 

Tugwell s principal contribution was in ideas and administra 
tion. Having been chairman of the New York City Planning Board, 
the Governor was a strong believer in planning. One of his first 
acts was to get the National Resources Planning Board of the U.S. 
to establish a branch in Puerto Rico. This led to the creation 
of the Puerto Rico Planning Authority, headed by an extremely 
personable and competent Puerto Rican, Raphael Pico, who later 
became president of the American Planning Association. 

Baum: Were you connected with the Planning Board? That is, did your 
work fit into the plans of the Board? 

Packard: I had no official connection with the Planning Board, but I worked 
closely with the technicians. Reading the numerous reports put me 
quickly in touch with what had been done and what was planned. My 
main interest concerned land and water. A Land Authority, a Power 
Authority, und a Water Authority had been established to control 
the use of these three basic resources. I was particularly in 
terested in the Land Authority because of its peculiar responsibil- 


The Land Authority: Problems of Large Land Ownership 

Packard: Although less than one million people were living in Puerto 
Rico in 1898 when the United States assumed the responsibility 
of establishing a form of government for the newly acquired island 
possession, the members of the Congress were aware that there was 
a scarcity of land in relation to the growing population. They 
realized that an already serious economic situation might be made 
worse if the ownership of the restricted area of good land should 
pass into the hands of a few corporations. During the debate 
over the provisions of the Organic Act, a fear was widely expres 
sed that corporations in the United States would soon own all of 
the valuable agricultural land in Puerto Rico unless the Congress 
took steps to prevent it. "If such concentration of holding shall 
become the case" said Congressman Jones, "then the condition of 
the population will, I believe, be reduced to one of absolute 
servitude. " 

As a result of the congressional debate a joint resolution 
was passed which provided, among other things, that "No corpora 
tion shall be authorized to conduct the business of buying and 
selling real estate or be permitted to own or hold real estate 
except such as may be reasonably necessary to enable it to carry 
out the purposes for which it was created, and every corporation 
hereafter organized to engage in agriculture shall by its charter 
be restricted to the ownership and control of not more than 500 
acres of land, and this provision shall be held to prevent any 


Packard: member of a corporation engaged in agriculture from being in any 
way interested in any other corporation engaged in agriculture." 

Baum: That 500-acre restriction was very much like the 160-acre re 
striction of the Bureau of Reclamation, wasn t it? 

Packard: Yes, it was, and both came out of the public fear of the giant 
corporations and their monopoly practices which were a great 
political issue of the trust-busting days of Theodore Roosevelt. 

As opportunity for profits in sugar production increased, 
little attention was paid to the acreage limitation provision of 
the Organic Act. The law carried no penalties and efforts to en 
force the law were ineffective. The record shows that in 1940, 
51 corporations owned 198,871 acres of land in violation of the 
law and, in addition, operated about 60,000 acres of leased land, 
also contrary to the law. Moreover, the area held by individuals 
in excess of 500 acres was a little more than twice the area held 
by corporations against the law. 

Because of these conditions, the problems of land tenure be 
came a primary issue of the Popular Party. The first serious at 
tempt to solve the problem was through the purchase of the 
Lafayette Central in 1938 and the organization of cooperatives to 
own and operate both the land and the mills as part of a plan to 
dissolve all private corporate holdings in excess of 500 acres. 
This initial plan failed for much the same reasons that the coop 
erative farms under the Resettlement Administration failed in the 
United States. A producer cooperative of that sort is not a sound 
behavioral pattern. In the hope of nolvinj^ the; problem Secretary 


Packard: Ickes appointed Dr. Tugwell as head of a commission to study the 
problem and come up with some workable answer. 

Baum: Wasn t Dr. Tugwell a controversial figure at that time? 

Packard: Yes he was, but he had the confiderce of the administration in 

Washington. There was no complete unity among either the Puerto 
Ricans or the Americans about what should be done. Some wanted 
family farms to spread land ownership as widely as possible. 
Others wanted to get the advantage;) of large scale operation with 
out losing the social values that ,irc attached to the family farm 
pattern if that could be done. Dr. Tugwell favored the collective 
farm pattern that was tried in the Resettlement program. Muftoz 
Marln advocated a new pattern, somswhat like the pattern followed 
by the U.S. Forest Service, where the land would be owned and 
operated by a public corporation and where any profits would be 
distributed to workers in proportion to the time they worked. 
After many meetings and conferences the proportional profit farm 
idea of Mufioz Marln was adopted and the Land Authority established. 
The preamble of the Land Law reads, in part, as follows: 

It is evident, therefore, that land concentration has caused 
in this island a serious fiocial situation by placing the 
most valuable source of wealth under the control of large 
interests, among which absentee interests are conspicuous. 
It is the purpose of this act to put an end to corporate 
latifundia and to every large concentration of land in 
the hand of entities legally organized in such ways as to 
tend to perpetuate themselves and to prevent for all time 
the division of the great landed estates. This funda 
mental public policy would not be complete if it were not 
accompanied by a corollary germane to its nature and scope; 
the provision that in the case of land where for natural or 
economic reasons, the division of the land is not advisable 
from the standpoint of efficiency, the greatest diffusion 
possible of the economic benefits of the land may still be 


Packard : 

effected, thereby contributing to raise substantially 
the standard of living of the greatest possible number 
of families. 

Baum: These seem to be very sound objectives. How did they work out in 

Packard: Well, I have a record here of what happened at the most successful 
project at Cambalache, the first property to be purchased under 
the Act of 1941: The area under cultivation in the proportional 
profit farms was increased by 37% since title passed to the Land 
Authority. And the yield per acre increased by 14.47 over the 
preceding five year average production under private management. 
In its effort to maximize production the Land Authority is coop 
erating with the Insular Experiment Station in developing higher 
yielding varieties of cane, better practices in the use of fertil 
izer. Both the cultivated area and the yield per acre would be in 
creased by presently planned drainage systems on land belonging to 
the Authority. In addition, non-cane land is being put into a 
higher use than formerly. Hill land suitable for forest produc 
tion was transferred to the Forest Service. 

Baum: How did the plan finally work out? 

Packard: For a while it gave great promise of success. About forty per 

cent of the illegal corporate holdings were taken over by the Land 
Authority, including some sugar mills, and were operated success 
fully. The corporate interests objected violently, taking the whole 
question to the courts. The Puerto Rican courts upheld the Land 
Law and so did the final Court of Appeals in the United States, 
which took the position that if the people of Puerto Rico wanted 


Packard: to own their own land they had a right to do so, even though it 
might be socialistic as the corporation said it was. Production 
was under the direction of skilled technicians and results were 
encouraging for a time. 

But labor was greatly disappointed. The distribution of 
profits did not increase the workers annual income as much as 
they had thought it would. On the most successful farm the in 
crease 1 was only eighteen per cent, while on the less successful 
there was little or no increase. And in all cases the problem of 
seasonal employment remained. Most workers found it necessary to 
go to the States for work during the off season. And, of course, 
the opposition of corporate interests continued. The Land Authority 
was finally abolished and responsibility for administration was 
transferred to the College of Agriculture. 

About the time that I arrived in Puerto Rico a vigorous at 
tack on the Land Authority was made by the United States Chamber 
of Commerce. The report was published and widely distributed. 
After making a study of the Land Law from my viewpoint I prepared 

a memorandum to Governor Tugwell in defense of the Land Authority. 
(See Appendix) 

Another part of the Land Authority Law which deserves mention 

was a provision for setting aside tracts of land adjacent to the 
sugar cane fields that had been purchased where the cane workers 
could build their homes on about one quarter acre or so of land 
which would be theirs. The land was purchased by the Land Authority 
and subdivided into lots on the pattern of a small town and title 


Packard: was given to the cane workers without payments. Most of these 

workers had lived in shacks they built on land they did not own, 
and therefore had no sense of security. They were squatters who 
could be put off the land at the whim of the corporation. About 
5,000 acres were purchased under this act and this was divided 
into 19,000 parcels. 

Baum: Did the 1 plan supply parcels of land for all the cane workers or 
only for the workers on the proportionate profit farms? 

Packard: Only a fraction of the total number of cane workers (95,000) were 

When I first visited one of the villages I was depressed by 
the character of the buildings. The Land Authority provided no 
credit or architectural help to the families. As a result the 
houses were mere shacks built out of a variety of materials. This 
is where I had hoped Vernon De Mars would work some miracle in 
developing new materials and house designs that would greatly im 
prove the living standard. The plots did not serve as effectively 
as I thought they would in providing food for the families. The 
record on individual plots varied widely. One reason for this was 
that the sites selected for these settlements were usually rather 
poor from a soil standpoint. The best land had to be conserved 
for commercial production. 

Baum: Were all attempts to reduce the size of land holdings, or to de 
velop agriculture under the Land Authority? 

Packard: No. In addition to the Puerto Rican Development Company, organized 
by Ted Moscoso, an Agricultural Development Company was created to 


Packard: carry out a development program in agriculture not covered by the 
Land Authority. This company was under the direction of Thomas 
Fennell who had a successful orchid farm in Florida and had worked 
in Haiti and consequently knew something about the agriculture of 
the region. He was primarily responsible for developing the live 
stock industry and made a determined but unsuccessful attempt to 
introduce pineapples as an export crop. The Agricultural Develop 
ment Company was finally abandoned. 

It was apparent that the government was going to buy a lot 
of land in addition to the land they were purchasing for the Land 
Authority. They had housing programs and school programs. Land 
values were increasing and it seemed necessary to improve the laws 
governing condemnation of property. As a result of the seriousness 
of this problem a law was suggested to prevent speculation and 
excessive profits in the sale of the land or improvements thereon, 
and to insure the availability of controlled prices. It was im 
possible to get agreement on a thorough revision of the Condemnation 
Law, although no one opposed the basic idea. 

We cull t d a meeting In La Fortaleza with everyone that would 
be involved and discussed the whole problem. There were a number 
of important considerations that were involved in the disagreement 
between individuals and agencies. In view of this fact and of the 
real need for a revision of the law, I recommended to the Governor 
that he employ an expert to come to Puerto Rico to work with the 
committee in drafting a measure which could be submitted at the 
next session of the legislature. 


Packard: Nothing developed from this effort. The same is true of an 
attempt I made to have the government acquire by condemnation the 
large holding to be provided with water in a southwest irrigation 
project. I felt that these lands should be purchased and sub 
divided into family farms and leased or sold on long term payments 
to Puerto Rican families capable of operating the land efficiently. 
Because tliJs was not done, a few large land ownerw secured great 
increments in land values which should have been distributed or 
reclaimed by the public. 

Later Developments in the Land Authority Program 

Baum: At the risk of getting this interview out of chronological order, 
how would you evaluate the work of the Land Authority, and how did 
the program eventually work out? 

Packard: My last official act in Puerto Rico was the preparation of 
a pamphlet entitled "The Land Authority and Democratic Processes 
in Puerto Rico" published by the Social Science Research Center of 
the University of Puerto Rico in 1948. Another judgment on the Land 
Authority was prepared by Keith S. Rosenn in a pamphlet entitled 
"Puerto Rico Land Reform: The History of an Instructive Experiment". 
In conclusion, he says, "Thus the Land Authority has been transformed 
from a vigorous instrumentality of breaking up large latifundias 
into an instrumentality for stimulating growth and development 
through new agricultural industries. More and more the Authority 
has asked private entrepreneurs to assume projects that it has begun, 
or to assist it in operating projects it has retained. The 


Packard: antagonism toward the large sugar corporations has largely dis 
appeared. And the Authority itself has been forced to assume 
many of the characteristics of the large sugar corporation in 
the operation of the proportional profit farms. In Puerto Rico, 
then, politicians originally devoted to a program of land frag 
mentation and redistribution, seeking both political and economic 
goals, have largely withdrawn from their program in recognizing 
both its political expend ability and its economic insufficiency 
in a core program of development to concentrate government efforts 
in the development of new industry." Well, this was Rosenn s 
judgment, not mine. 

Baum: Yes. That sounds like he felt it couldn t have worked anyway 
but you attribute this to the failure to carry through on it. 

Packard: Yes, I do. I think that was the principal trouble. The plan had 
merits and should have been supported. 

Seven years later, in 1954, after visiting collective and 
state farms in Yugoslavia and kibbutzim in Israel, I revisited 
Puerto Rico and had a long talk with Mr. Arrieaga, then director 
of the Land Authority. He was as convinced as ever that the pat 
tern was sound and would work if he had political backing from 
Munoz Marin, which he did not have. He said that Mufioz was 
sabotaging the whole scheme. He was abandoning the Land Authority 
itself and putting it in as a department under the Ministry of 
Agriculture, under a young man that we knew -- a very sincere- 
young fellow but wholly incapable of running a large institution 


Packard: of this kind. Mr. Arrieaga pleaded with me to do anything I could 
to re-establish their authority. He said they were getting along 
all right and it would succeed but that they could not operate as 
a department under the Ministry of Agriculture. Their authority 
was being quest ionecl and their operations were being interfered 
with. So I wrote a letter to Munoz expressing my fear about this 
whole thing. I was supplied with a great deal of documentary 
evidence on all of this. And I was thoroughly convinced that the 
director was correct. I asked to see Munoz but he didn t reply to 
my letter nor my phone calls. So I left the island without ac 
complishing anything, but promising that I would continue to do 
anything I could to help. But nothing came of this. 

Baum: Why was this? I thought you said that the proportionate profit 
farm idea was his. 

Packard: Well, by then Munoz was governor and had come under the influence 
of Teodoro Moscoso, the dynamic head of the Puerto Rico Develop 
ment Company, who veered away from socialism and started the 
"Operation Bootstrap" movement which concentrated on getting 
United States industries to establish branches in Puerto Rico 
with the help of the Puerto Rican government. Lower labor costs, 
exemption from United States corporation income taxes, and a mora 
torium on Puerto Rican taxes for a period of ten years and free 
access to United States markets were advantages which proved quite 
effective. The publicly owned cement plant, glass bottle factory, 
and paper mill were sold to a Puerto Rican industrialist who was 


Packard: a political enemy of MuKoz Marin. The ceramic factory, also 

publicly owned, was sold to private interests. The government 
advanced loans to the Hilton chain to build the Caribe Hilton 
hotel, which did much to increase tourist travel. It is not 
strange that under this new ideological orientation that the 
Land Authority should be weakened. 

When Tugwell left conditions changed in the island a good 
deal. I remember seeing him off at the airport and all of the 
young Puerto Ricans who had worked with him and had been so in 
spired by the things that they were doing were there to see him 
off. And when the plane was off the ground, most of them were 
crying. It showed me what Tugwell had meant to these young 
Puerto Ricans who were idealists and were trying to go ahead 
with the program. 

Efforts at Birth Control Programs 

The second year that I was there they had a Caribbean Con 
ference of all the islands in the Caribbean. This conference 
was held in Charlotte Amalie on St. Thomas Island. This was an 
extremely interesting occasion for me. I remember hearing an 
Oxford accent behind me and I turned around expecting to see some 
tall Englishman and there was a Negro from Jamaica. I got ac 
quainted with Madame Ebonet of Martinique. She was a member of the 
French Parliament and a very astute Negro woman. They discussed 
all sorts of problems that the Caribbean area faced. 


Baum: Isn t one of those problems the need for birth control? 

Packard: Yes, at least in most areas. Cuba is an exception but Cuba was 

not represented at the conference. The population in Puerto Rico 
was about two million. The island could support that many if, as 
Tugwel I said, "We- can perhaps double production on the land that 
you have, and we can establish industries and raise the level of 
living a groat deal, but still there does remain the necessity of 
reducing the birth rate." The death rate had been very heavy and 
consequently the population hadn t grown so fast. But when they 
began to put in health programs and eliminate malaria, then the 
death rate began to decline and the birth rate stayed U p, and so 
the population began to increase fast enough to create a serious 
population problem. 

There was a camp of conscientious objectors at a mountain 
place called Castancr where they built a crude but serviceable 
hospital and secured what facilities they could. They handled a 
wide variety of cases including wounds from fights with machetes. 
(Laughter) One of these young men was John Jahn, son of the 
engineer on the Delhi project. He married a Puerto Rican nurse 
working with the group and is now a doctor in Berkeley. William 
Ludlow was another conscientious objector who worked with the 
Planning Board in San Juan. He later joined the planning staff in 
San Francisco and for some years has been the top planner in 
Philadelphia. Bill and his wife Wilma, devoted pacifists, have been 
close friends of ours ever since our Puerto Rican experience. So 


Packard: far as the hospital at Castafter is concerned I might add that 

that is whore Nathan Leopold went when he was released from the 
Joliet prison in Illinois. 

Birth control was a great issue in Puerto Rico in spite of 
the opposition of the Catholic Church. The group at Castaner 
was particularly active in promoting birth control information. 
A number of church groups were involved. 

Baum: Didn t the Catholic Church oppose these activities? 

Packard: One rather interesting incident illustrates the problem: A man 
came down from one of the foundations in New York hoping to es 
tablish a definite area where they could put in a hospital and 
all of the facilities needed for birth control information and to 
take care of the women, etc. They planned to take an entire area 
and try and see whether within five years they could reduce the 
birth rate very materially. Well, they had to have the govern 
ment s permission. So I went to Munoz Marin, who was then the 
head of the Senate, and told him about it. And I took this man 
with me and introduced him to Munoz. And he said, "I ll do every 
thing I can. We ll be right with you." Then as we were about to 
leave he said, "If you tell anybody I told you this I ll deny I 
said it." (Laughter) In other words Munoz was afraid to be quoted 
as being completely in favor of the program, although he was. 

Baum: He had to put it in carefully because of the Church, I guess. 

Packard: Yes. He was not particularly religious himself, so he didn t care 
so much about that. 


Packard: When I returned to Puerto Rico some time later, one of the 
professors at the University was taking his sabbatical and was 
spending the entire time in studying the birth control problem 
there. It, of course, is a very important issue. 

Appointment of Governor Jesus Piflero 

Tugwell resigned as governor in 1946 and went back to the 
United States where 1 he Joined the faculty of the University of 
Chicago. T stayed on. And at that time they wanted to get a 
Puerto Rican in as governor. Jesfis Pinero, who was the repre 
sentative of Puerto Rico in Washington -- Resident Commissioner 
was what he was called -- was the one they thought would make an 
excellent governor. And since he was known by the Americans they 
thought he probably would be acceptable. So when Tugwell left 
he said he d try to see what he could do in Washington to get 
Pinero appointed. But he wrote back and said it was utterly im 
possible. The President considered it illegal, against the 
Organic Act. Well, I felt that Tugwell hadn t gone into it 
thoroughly enough, so I went to Mufloz and then to the acting 
Governor and told him I thought that if they would send me to 
Washington I could do something about it. So they sent me to 

I saw Tugwell first and he said there was no chance at all. 
Then I saw Pinero and he said he didn t think there was any 
chance. But I still thought there was. So I prepared a brief on 
the subject and I got an appointment with the Secretary of the 


Packard: Interior, Julius Krug. He told me that the President was 
against it and said he wouldn t do anything. And I said, 
"Isn t there some way we can get the President s mind changed 
on this?" And he said, "No, I m against it, too. I agree with 
the President. I won t do anything." But I was convinced in 
talking with him that he still had a reasonable mind, that he 
would consider the thing if it was presented to him properly. 

So I went right over to see Abe Fortas and gave him my 
little brief. I knew the brief I had prepared wasn t adequate. 
So I did not give it to the Secretary. I went to Fortas and 
he dropped everything he had and went right to work and pre 
pared a brief giving the legal points on three issues: One 
was that the Organic Act did not prevent such an appointment. 
Second, it was very desirable at the time to appoint a Puerto 
Rican. Third, Pinero, having been the Resident Commissioner 
for some years, was the man to appoint. So I took this brief, 
prepared by Abe Fortas, over to Krug. 

Baum: What was Abe Fortas 1 position? 

Packard: He used to be Undersecretary of the Interior. He was then a 
private attorney in Washington. He was the man who supported 
me when I went to Washington when I exposed the Kern County 
Land Company s attempt at graft. He is now on the Supreme Court. 

Then I got the CIO in Washington quite active in the fight. 
They saw the Insular Affairs Committee, which was headed by Mr. 
Taft. I got Philip Murray, the head of the CIO quite active in 


Packard: it. I did everything I could to stir up support for the Pinero 
appointment. Then I left to go back to Puerto Rico, feeling 
within myself, that it would be done. When I got back to Puerto 
Rico it was soon announced that the President would appoint 
Pinero. So the people- on the island were delighted. 

There was a big reception at La Fortaleza and Mufioz Marln 
wiis the* leader. When I came through the line and got down to 
the Secretary of the Interior, Mr. Krug, he turned to Munoz and 
said, "This is the man that made this possible." And Muftoz said, 
"Yes, I know." And Fortas was there, too. He was the one that 
I thought was really responsible because he really drew up the 
brief. And so they got their first Puerto Rican governor ap 
pointed by the President. And the second governor was Mufioz 
Marin, who was the first elected Puerto Rican governor. And 
from then on they had their Puerto Rican governors all the time. 

Baum: Why did Tugwell give up like that? 

Packard: Well, it just seemed to him that it was impossible. He tried but 
he didn t feel it was possible. 

Baum: I know he bucked so much opposition in Washington he was prob 
ably just tired out. (Laughter) 

A Preview of the Communist Take Over in Cuba 

On my return to Puerto Rico from Washington I went to Cuba 
for the then acting governor to see if I could find out why 
Cuban communists were trying to stir up trouble in Puerto Rico 
where NO iiiiu li HOI- I ii I pmy.rcHH was bclny, miidc. So Mrw. Packard 


Packard: and I flew to Camaguey on the first lap of a very interesting 
trip. After a day or two there we flew to Havana where I re 
ported to the American ambassador and explained the purpose of 
my visit. He was somewhat skeptical about it but was coopera 
tive. Ho gave- me- an official report on the Communist movement 
In Cuba to road. And In- gave It ai his opinion that Cuba would 
go Communist ufti-r the war if ther . was widespread unemployment 
in Cuba and full employment in Russia, but would remain in the 
western camp if there was full employment in Cuba and the 
United States and unemployment in iussia. I considered this 
rather a na ive judgment in view of what I learned of conditions 
in the island. 

Fortunately for me, Dr. Lowry Nelson, a sociologist from 
the University of Minnesota, was in Cuba for the purpose of 
studying the history and present status of agricultural de 
velopment in Cuba. Professor Nelson and I had worked together 
in the Resettlement Administration in Washington and we held 
the same general philosophy. He and Mrs. Nelson took us on a 
rather extended trip through parts of western Cuba and gave us 
what information they could on the Communist activity. 

Conditions in Havana were chaotic. We saw many houses of 
government officials that were protected by armed guards night 
and day. The condition of the workers was pitiable. So far as 
economic and social legislation was concerned, Cuba was far be 
hind Puerto Rico. Public ownership of any meaningful kind did 


Packard: not exist. The principal industries were owned very largely 
by American corporations, including a large proportion of the 
sugar cane lands. Democracy as it was being carried out in 
Puerto Rico wus just not apparent. 

One striking difference between the two islands, Puerto 
Rico and Cuba, was the difference in the character of the of 
ficial American influence. Governor Tugwell was a liberal who 
viewed the problems of the island from the standpoint of American 
corporations interested in dominating the economy. In Cuba the 
United States was represented by officials of the State Depart 
ment whose primary interest was in protecting the interests of 
the American investors in Cuban resources and key industries. 
The American officials there, of course, were not interested in 
any program of nationalization, as Tugwell was in Puerto Rico. 
I did not contact any communist leaders because it seemed un 
necessary and, perhaps, unwise. It was evident, however, that 
they had not been able to make much headway so far as getting 
any liberal legislation was concerned. From the standpoint of 
history it seems reasonable to assume that this failure to make 
any progress in social legislation was a strong factor leading 
to the communist take over under Castro. I can only report 
that it seemed unlikely that Cuban communists would have very 
much influence in Puerto Rico. 


Advisor to Governor Pificro 

Packard: Soon after my return from Cuba, Pitk-ro took office. I sub 
mitted my resignation in a letter saying that I felt he should 
be free to keep me on or to dismiss me in the development of 
his staff. I said that I would like to stay if he wanted me 
to. And he answered by saying that he wanted me to remain. 
So I remained in my old office in La Fortaleza. And as I look 
over the record now I m rather surprised at the number of 
things I advised the governor on. 

Baum: Your position was, particularly, acvisor to the government on 
land problems, is that right? 

Packard: Yes. 

Baum: Piftero came in about July, 1946, right? 

Packard: Yes, and I continued my old duties including the making of re 
ports on various issues such as tho following: "Recommendations 
Regarding Title 5 Programs", "Progress Report to Governor Piflero 
on the Southwestern Puerto Rican Project". I recommended also 
that the Bureau of Reclamation take an interest in Puerto Rico 
and do something about it. And as a result Michael Straus, 
the Commissioner of Reclamation in Washington, came to Puerto 
Rico to confer with the governor and Muftoz Marln about the pos 
sibility of the Bureau coming down and taking over the project. 
But I was opposed by two Americans: one was head of the Power 
Authority nml the other was employed as an agricultural engineer. 
He didn t cure whether the speculators got the land or not. He- 


Packard: had no sympathy for any of the ideas I had. He said they were 
all socialistic and he didn t believe in any of them. And he 
said, "No matter what you say, we re going ahead the other way." 
So I don t know what the result was. I left shortly after that. 
I got a letter from someone several years later saying that they 
did not follow my plan and as a result the land speculators took 
a hold of the project and all that I had predicted came true. 

Baum: Was Piftero less liberal than Tugwell? He was governor for a 
short time. 

Packard: Yes. He was governor for only a short time. Muftoz Marin became 
the first elected governor and served for many years. He re 
signed as governor in 1964. 

An extremely sad thing happened at home while we were in 
Puerto Rico. Bobby -- Robert Boman -- my daughter Clara s three 
and a half year old son, died suddenly of encephalitis after an 
attack of the measles. He was an extremely bright child in whom 
we all had great hopes. Immediately following the receipt of 
the telegram telling of Bobby s passing, we arranged for Emma s 
flight back to Napa where she stayed with Clara until she felt 
she could leave to rejoin me. 


VENEZUELA, 1947 (Tape Number 13, July 13, 1964 -- The tran 
script of this interview was not corrected by Mr. Packard.) 

Packard: Knowing that my stay In Puerto Rico would not last, I began to 
look for other employment. So, in July, 1947 I made a two-week 
trip to Venezuela as guest of the Ministry of Agriculture. It 
came about in this way: Mr. Henry Klumb, the leading architect 
in Puerto Rico, was doing some work in Caracas and became in 
terested in the land problem which was attracting a good deal 
of attention. Land reform was one of the principal objectives 
of the newly established regime under President Romulo Betancourt 
whose Accion Democratica Party was the first democratically 
elected government in the history of the country. Mr. Klumb 
suggested that I be invited to inspect the work that was being 
done and to offer any suggestions that might arise out of my 
Puerto Rican and other experiences. The land problem was made 
more pressing by the fact that Venezuela was actively engaged in 
resettling a large number of refugees from Europe. 

In due time I received a round-trip ticket and an invitation 
from Eduardo Mendoza Corticon, Minister of Agriculture. I flew 
to Venezuela in a Pan Am plane which landed in Trujillo in the 
Dominican Republic and at Willemstad on the Dutch island of 
Curacao, and finally at the airport in Maiquetia, on the 
Venezuelan coast. The few minutes we stopped at Trujillo was 
enough to give me some impression of the tight security measures 


Packard: in force. Soldiers were everywhere around the airport. I 

was told by an American leaving on the plane that the country 
was as much a police state as Hitler s Germany. In sharp con 
trast, WilLomstad exuded the atmosphere and sense of orderli 
ness of Holland. 

I was met at the airport in Venezuela by representatives of 
the Ministry and driven the thirty-five miles up the mountain 
highway to Caracas, which is at an elevation of over 3,000 feet. 
And consequently I enjoyed cool weather during the time I was 

The morning following my arrival I called on the Minister 
of Agriculture and had a fruitful talk with him and his assistant, 
Dr. Pinto. They both expressed agreement with the ideas I pre 
sented. And I, in turn, was very much impressed with both of 
them. They were obviously intelligent, sincere, and well in 
formed. The Minister himself was one of the principal drafters 
of the new constitution and a leader in the revolutionary Accion 
Democratica Party which corresponded, it seems to me, very 
closely with the Popular Party of Munoz Marin in Puerto Rico. 
The party polled 90% of the vote in what was considered to be a 
fair election. The Communist Party had about 20,000 members and 
received about 100,000 votes of the total of 1,300,000. 

The program for my visit was outlined at this meeting. I 
went directly to the American Embassy from the Ministry, where 
I had a good talk with the Undersecretary. The Ambassador was 


Packard: out of town. I found the Undersecretary to be a genial Irish 
Catholic who was quite frank in telling what he thought. He 
said, among other things, "We don t much care what the country 
does, just so wo got the oil that we want". He arranged an ap 
pointment with Mr. Hempton, the agricultural attache, who was 
very cordial. We pretty well covered the field in an hour and 
a half talk. We found that our ideas were very much alike. He 
was very cooperative in giving me all the help I needed. 

I had lunch that day at the American Club with Mr. Arensen, 
Mr. Klumb s friend. During our two-hour visit I met several 
other people and was able to broaden my knowledge of the country 
and of the attitude of the American group, all of whom seemed to 
be living on a rather high scale. One man was doubling his 
$18,000 salary by raising fowl in his backyard for sale to the 
oil company commissaries. He flew in baby chicks from the 
United States and followed the latest methods in feeding care. 
Mr. Arensen took me to the headquarters of the Rockefeller 
organization where I met Mr. Peterson and Mr. John Camp, who 
is a brother of our Associated Farmer and Bank of America friend 
in California, Bill Camp.* Camp was first in charge of the 
Institute of Inter-American Affairs, originally sponsored by 
Nolson Rockefeller, and later taken over by the United States 
State Department. Camp is now in charge of the work being carried 

* Wofford B. Camp, Bakersfield farmer, who was being interviewed by the 
Regional Oral History Office in the summer of 1964. 


Packard: out by the Rockefeller organization, called the Venezuela Basic 
Economy Corporation, one of whose primary objectives is to get 
government land into private ownership. The nature and extent 
of the work being done is illustrated by the following quote from 
a letter I rom Nelson Rockefeller to President Betancourt: ... 
"As T told you during those conversations, it is my firm belief 
that peace, individual liberty and respect for human dignity can 
not be attained in the world until standards of living are raised 
and peoples enjoy good health, education and well-being. Certainly 
it is a privilege for me to come to your country to cooperate with 
you and with your government toward the fulfillment of these aims. 
I sincerely believe that efficient cooperation between the govern 
ment and private enterprise is a most important factor in the ful 
fillment of these objectives. 

Therefore, Mr. President, permit me to express my desire and 
that of my associates to contribute, in every possible way, to 
the economic and social development of Venezuela, and at the same 
time, to set forth in the enclosed document the main points agreed 
upon in our conversation of the sixteenth regarding the policies 
and orientation of our work in Venezuela. 

It seems to me that the dynamic force of private enterprise, 
acting within the framework of a democracy, has the necessary crea 
tive energy to stimulate the production of such items as food and 
other products of prime necessity required by the Venezuelan econ 
omy. The knowledge that we can count on your good will and coopera 
tion in our effort to contribute to the increase of such production 
gives us great encouragement and pleasure." This is dated 


Packard: June 19, 1947. 

I mot a second Mr. Camp in Caracas, who is not related to 
our California friend. I knew him in Washington where he was a 
land planner for the Forest Service. He was then working for the 
Venezuelan government in their forestry development program. I 
liked him very much. 

I also met General Meyers, representing the UN. He is in 
charge of European immigration. He received me most cordially 
and expressed the hope that I might remain in the country. He 
took me through the Institute of Immigration and gave me a good 
idea of some of the problems he faced. I visited a large apart 
ment house in the poorest part of the town where a large number 
of recently arrived refugees from Eastern Europe were housed 
pending their transfer to settlement areas in the country. The 
families were all from the American Zone, mostly from Russia, 
from the Ukraine; a few from Poland. Some had learned to speak 
English and when they found that I was an American they all wanted 
to know what they could do to get them to the United States. They 
were a sturdy lot. The plan was to settle them on small farms in 
some of the newly developed reclamation projects, a plan which 
seemed to me doomed to failure because the men and women I talked 
with were semi-skilled people who wanted good jobs. 

Some days later I visited the camps in the country, where 
they were being stationed pending their transfer to their final 
destination. They were living in quonset huts under conditions 


Packard: that were not too promising. The prospects in the country seemed 
pretty poor. Farm wages were low and employment was seasonal. 
But then was need for increased agricultural production. The 
country w;is not able to support itself. I later found farming 
practices to be very backward; little fertilizer was used, im 
ported food was very high, Washington apples cost sixty cents a 
piece, a can of Del Monte fruit salad cost $1.10. Bananas, starch 
and root crops, beans and brown rice and so forth, seemed to be 
plentiful on the market. 

I made two trips over the country, one by car and the other 
by plane and car. The first trip took me from Caracas to Maracay 
and to Valencia and Barquisimeto, on the western slopes of the 
Andes, then southeast to a point on the upper border of the great 
flat plains of the Arauca River, where rice was being grown on an 
experimental basis. We traveled a total distance of seven hundred 

The second trip took me by plane across the northern extension 
of the Andes to the town of Valera, from which I went by car to the 
town of Mene Grande, near the eastern shore of Lake Maracaibo. 
From there I flew in a one-motor Cessna plane across the lake and 
over some of the area south of the lake, where the Rockefellers 
were carrying out one of the principal agricultural development 
programs. We also flew over a rather extended area on the east 
shore of the lake where the Ministry was planning to establish a 
new project. I rode and walked over a portion of this proposed 


Packard: irrigation system on the Chereque River, where a dam was to be 
built to store water in the foothills of the Andes for the ir 
rigation of an area which was covered, in part, by a tropical 
forest from which the valuable timber had been removed. The 
clearing was clone by henvy bulldozers which could be used to push 
over very large trees. T later used this same plan in similar 
work in Greece. The soil appeared to be thoroughly leeched and 
in need of heavy fertilization, as is true in most tropical areas. 

In the Valencia Lake area I was; driven over representative 
portions of the reclamation project being carried out by the Min 
istry of Public Works and the Ministry of Agriculture together. 
It took a jeep to get through much of the area because of the 
bad roads. A large area of the land was formerly owned by dic 
tator Gomez. It was used largely for cattle raising. When the 
government acquired it some of the land was subdivided into very 
small subsistence-sized farms, each with a small house. Too much 
faith was placed in the value of land ownership and too little 
faith was placed in the economic practicability of the project. 
The solution of the problem demands some form of planned agricul 
ture in which trained management and efficient methods of produc 
tion are put into effect. This original resettlement did not 
work out. But the Ministry was now approaching the problem from 
a very much more modern viewpoint. 

The nreu nround Lnkc Valencia is by nature divided into three 
distinct zones; an areu of muckland, immediately adjacent to the 


Packard: lake, which will not permit the use of heavy equipment but is 

suited to the production of plantains, bananas, yucca, tobacco, 
and benns. Tt was to be settled by small farmers who could gfct 
along without heavy equipment even though the use of horses was 
difficult in the area. The next zone is a flat area of good 
soil suited to the large scale production of other crops such 
as corn, sugar cane, sesame, and fodder crops. The third zone 
is in the foothill country and is suited to the production of 
oranges, lemons, avocados, corn, bananas, and so forth, and was 
suited to the development of small, family-type farms. 

In some of this area the development was very modern indeed. 
Two or three different types of settlement were being carried out 
on an experimental basis. In some cases the people were supposed 
to live in villages and go to the country, which they do in Europe. 

I arranged with the Ministry to submit a report on my return 
to Caracas. I was invited to return for an indefinite period at a 
salary of $15,000 a year when I had finished my work in Puerto 
Rico. The nature of my report is illustrated by the following 
letter to Mr. Mendoza, August 8, 1947: 

The comments and suggestions which follow are based upon 
field observations and a study of various reports during 
my two-week stay in Venezuela. ... But the fact must be 
kept in mind that those who are dis-employed in the process 
of mechanization can be re-employed in industry -- es 
pecially service industries -- which expand more or less 
automatically as the income per man increases provided, of 
course, that the general economy is. organized on a basis 
which does not stymie enterprise through a concentration 
of income in the hands of a few who do not keep the flow 
ol Income moving. 


Packard: I returned to Puerto Rico expecting to go back to Venezuela 
later on but nothing developed. The Acclon Democratica Party had 
been working against terrific odds ever since it took office fol 
lowing the revolution of October, 1945. The members of the old 
regime were sniping from exile, while powerful elements within 
the country were working more or less openly to restore the old 
regime. The new constitution set up a framework of enlightened 
democracy, which seemed to be suited to conditions. In going from 
office to office in Caracas I constantly encountered military of 
ficers and just missed an armed revolt by air force officers in 
Maracuy. I was astonished to meet an American officer in uniform 
at the Grace Hotel, built by Gomez. He was there to train 
Venezuelan officers in the use of surplus planes which the United 
States was selling to Venezuela. He said that he had done similar 
work in other Latin American countries. Almost his first question 
was about Russia and the danger of war. He appeared to be ex 
tremely na ive. He said that he had not seen any outside papers 
for some time and was fearful that there might be trouble with 

History records the fact that Jimenez overthrew the Acclon 
Democratica Party, put Betancourt in jail, established a dictator 
ship; the country was put under strict military laws, and Falang 
ists were imported from Spain to organize a secret police force of 
15,000 men. Some 18,000 political prisoners were put in jail, 
where an estimated 20% died. This undoubtedly included many of 


Packard: the men that I had been working with. Jimenez later was decor 
ated by President Eisenhower and was supported completely by his 
administration. Then later on when Nixon visited Caracas he was 
spit on, which scorned to me to be a rather logical consequence of 
that kind of tiling. 

Hnum: Was it: hard to get out-sldf information there? You said this 
American officer didn t have much information. 

Packard: He was in the country, you sec, not in Caracas. In Caracas you 
got everything. He apparently was a na fve man, very cordial and 
that sort of thing. But he was just afraid of Russia. He was 
thinking there was going to be a fight with Russia. It was very 
real in his mind. 

When I returned to Puerto Rico I had a conference with Governor 
Pinero, who was anxious that I remain on the island. But his at 
titude toward the Land Authority and other social programs in which 
I was especially interested was very disappointing. It was obvious 
that if I remained I would be engaged in resettlement work associa 
ted with an expanded housing program or in teaching at the 
Mayaguez Agricultural Institute, where Jaime Benitez offered me a 
position. I did not like this prospect and therefore resigned and 
planned to return to the United States. Emma and I had Thanksgiving 
dinner with Mr. and Mrs. Mufioz Marln the day before we left, and I 
was pleased to have Muftoz say that I could come back at any time 
that I changed my mind. 


Packard: We returned by boat to New Orleans. We left from the port 
of Mayaguez and I shall never forget the beautiful scene with 
the palm covered shore circled by a complete rainbow. We passed 
through the delta of the Mississippi River, where the flames 
from burning natural gas were seen on both sides. Emma went to 
Iowa Tor a visit with her family, while I went to New York and 
Washington to seek other possible employment. 


Mr. Packard 


Mrs . Packard 

Puerto Rico - 1946. 

Unveiling of the Bust of Walter Packard, Anthili, 
Greece - June 1954. 


GREECE, 1948-1954 

First Assignment, Irrigation Specialist for American Mission 
for Aid to Greece- (AMAG) 

Packard: The circumstances surrounding my assignment for work in Greece- 
were completely fortuitous, and illustrate the part played by 
mere chance in one s career. On returning to Berkeley from 
Puerto Rico my first act was to have a cataract operation on my 
right eye, since my left eye which had been operated on three 
times was deteriorating. While wandering around town with one 
eye bandaged I dropped in to the old Irrigation Investigation 
Office of the United States Department of Agriculture, which 
I d worked for in 1909 to pass the time of day with the old 
associates. As it happened the office had received a telegram 
from the State Department that day asking if they had a man who 
could fill a four-months special assignment to Greece as an ir 
rigation specialist for the American Mission for Aid to Greece, 
at a salary of $10,000 a year. At that time that was afrove the 
usual pay in the United States. I said, of course, that I would 
be glad to go. 

I immediately went to my doctor in San Francisco to ask 
him to hurry up my new glasses, which he was willing to do. 
The Irrigation Office wired the State Department saying that I 
was available. The reply came back the next day saying that I 


Packard: would be all right if it was acceptable to the Department of Ag 
riculture. So, another wire went off to the Department of Ag 
riculture 1 . And in about a week the reply came back that my ap 
pointment would be 1 satisfactory. And by that time my eyes were 
improved enough so that I could get some new glasses and be on 
my way. 

On arriving in Washington I was told that I would have to 
have a security clearance. I said that that would take quite a 
long time and that I didn t see why on a four-months assignment 
I would have to have a clearance. But they said it might be 
necessary. I said that I was not a Communist and never had 
been and didn t intend to be and that I saw no reason for de 
laying my appointment on that account. So, finally, they had me 
sign a statement that I would pay my way home if they found out 
that I was a security risk after the investigation had been car 
ried out. So after going through all of the medical tests and 
receiving all of the injections that were necessary I went to 
New York and flew from there to Greece, landing in Ireland, Paris, 
Geneva, and Rome on the way. I was met in Athens by a representa 
tive of the American Mission with a Greek official who got me 
through customs without delay. 

Although my original appointment was for the four months re 
maining for the American Mission for Aid to Greece under the 
Truman Doctrine, I was re-employed on July 1st, 1948, for two 


Packard: years with the Economic Cooperative Administration under the 
Marshall Plan. I remained in Greece for six and a half years 
and then retired at the age of seventy. No other period of my 
life compares with my Greek experience in interest, excitement, 
and sense of accomplishment. To live in a country with such a 
rich, historical background was an incomparable treat. Every 
area in which I worked was associated in some way with important 
events of ancient history. In a somewhat similar way the hot war 
that was going on in Greece when I arrived seemed to be a carry 
over from the wars between the ancient city-states. 

War Conditions in Greece 

Travel in Greece at that time was not very safe, because the 
Andarte groups (guerrillas) were pretty well in control of all of 
the area of Greece outside of the cities. So you had to travel 
during the day if you went into the country at all. And often 
you had to wait until the roads were cleared by the army. 

In some of the areas where I went I d ride in a jeep sit 
ting on a wet sand sack with my feet on another wet sand sack in 
order to absorb the shock of a blast if we happened to hit a mine. 
Another time I remember was in Agrinion where we were out on a 
field survey near a lake and we could see the resistance forces 
in the mountains on a pass not too far away. We were somewhat 
fearful of being fired at. When I first went to Salonika I got 
there on the morning when 500 people had been arrested. They 
were marched down the street and put on boats and taken to an 


Packard: island. Finally the number of prisoners on this island was in 

the neighborhood of 15,000. Many of them were not Communists ac 
cording to the testimony of Charley House, head of the American 
Farm School, who had lived in Greece most of his life and knew 
these people- well. He said many of them were just liberal people 
who wanted re-forms. Others -- the majority -- were poor, land 
less people seeking a way to improve their lot. 

Baum: What was this school? 


Packard: The American Farm School. 

Baum: This was a private agricultural mission. 

Packard: Yes. It was founded by John House, who was the father of Charles 
House, and a Congregational Church minister in Bulgaria. When 
the Balkan Wars got so hot that he couldn t stay in Bulgaria, he 
came to Greece. And with every cent he had, plus all he could 
get from friends and church associates, he bought 500 acres of 
land about five miles east of Salonika and founded this school. 
It s become a very famous school for Greek farm boys. The school 
accepts two boys from each farm village who are supposed to return 
home after graduation and teach the methods they have learned at 
the school and try to build up the village s agriculture. Many 
had no money and had to pay the costs by contributing farm prod 
ucts instead of cash. At present there are many scholarships and 
many graduates who send back money, so it s become relatively pros 
perous compared with the shoestring it was started on.* 

* Following Mr. Packard s death, a Walter Packard Memorial Fund was 
established to aid the American Farm School; one of the benefits of 
this fund was a 5000 cm irrigation tank designated the "Walter 
Packard Memorial Tank." ELP 


Baum: So Charley House had contacts all through the country. 

Packard: Oh yes, he was revered by everyone. He protected many people 1 who 
had been unjustly arrested. At one time some twenty boys in the 
school were kidnapped by the Communists and taken to the mountains 
but before long all returned with varying stories of their means 
of escape. 

Communism was not a recent development in Greece as evid 
enced by the experience of Miss Susan Stone, a missionary working 
with Dr. John House way back in 1902. Miss Stone was captured by 
the andartes of that time who were fighting the Turks. She was 
held for a $60,000 ransom which Dr. House managed to pay in gold 
from contributions from all over the United States, a fund to 
which I contributed as a member of a Sunday school class. When 
Miss Stone reached the mountain hideout she urged her captors to 
read the Bible. They said they would if she would read their 
Bible. She, of course, agreed and was given a copy of Karl Marx s 
Das Kapital. This was in 1902, fifteen years before the Rus 
sian Revolution. 

Since I am discussing communism I might continue by inserting 
the story of an incident which occurred in the town of Serres, in 
western Thrace. I was on an inspection trip to visit some reclama 
tion projects in that part of Greece and was accompanied by Emma, 
a representative from the United Nations and his wife, and by 
Orestis Christides of the Greek Ministry of Agriculture. We went 
from Salonika to Serres on a road recently surfaced by the Mission. 


Packard: Wc> stayed in a small cabin owned by the government, and were 
awakened about four a.m. by machine gun fire and occasional 
cannonading. Soon after sunrise we climbed a small hill in back 
of the cabin where we could watch Spitfires dive-bombing the 
andartes north of town. Two of the Spitfires were shot down while 
we stood on the hill. A third was shot down later on and landed 
in a Bermuda grass pasture about 100 yards from where I stood 
south of town. We learned that the town had been attacked by 
about 1,000 andartes who had blown up a new bridge leading into 
the town. 

On the third day of the fighting I asked the commanding of 
ficer to let me talk with some of the prisoners. I wanted to 
find out what was in their minds. He granted permission and had 
all of the prisoners who were not wounded taken out of the ware 
house where they were staying. They were very morose at first and 
were wondering why an American wanted to see them. I walked up 
to the group and said, "I am an American who came to Greece to 
help you irrigate your land, drain your swamps, and reforest your 
mountains, and I can not understand why you blew up the beautiful 
bridge which the American Mission had built. I came to Greece as 
your friend, wanting to help you develop your resources." On the 
basis of this statement they all gathered around me and told me 
of their poverty. Their stories were the same ones that I had 
heard in villages from one end of Greece to the other. None of 
them were doctrinaire communists, although I was told by the of 
ficer that a doctrinaire communist was captured but was mortally 


Packard: wounded. I chose not to see him. The incident confirmed my be 
lief that poverty was the root of the trouble. 

Baum: But they didn t explain why they blew up the bridge. 

Packard: No. They apparently blew up the bridge because they were against 
the government in the Civil War. They were trying to win a war 
and that was part of it. I found out later that most of these 
people were sent back to their villages and there was nothing 
done about them. 

One of the experiences that shocked me very much was when I 
first went to the town of Lamia, about a hundred miles northwest 
of Athens where I saw a group of andarte prisoners in a school 
yard, perhaps three or four hundred of them. They ranged all the 
way from white-haired old men down to young boys of 17 or 18 years. 
They were all wearing homespun clothes and were obviously mountain 
people. I talked with one of the Greek agricultural agents about 
them, who said they were just poor people who had joined the revo 
lution because of their poverty. They were starving to death in 
their mountain villages and had to have land to make a living. 
Some six weeks later I had breakfast with an American officer whom 
I had known previously who was in charge of the Lamia area for the 
American army. He was their adviser. I said, "What did you do 
with those prisoners you had in the schoolyard there in Lamia?" 
He said, "We- shot a lot of them." And I said, "You shot a lot of 
them. How many did you kill?" He said, "I don t remember. We 
killed a lot of them." I said, "That s very indefinite, haven t 
v you got some definite figure?" He said, "No, we shot seven this 


Packard: "morning before I left for Athens." And I said, "What did you do, 
give them trials?" "No," he said, "We just looked them up and if 
they were Communists we shot them." Well, I was completely shocked 
by this. And later on I took the matter up with the ambassador, 
Henry Grady, who had formerly been head of the School of Business 
Administration nt the University of California and, consequently, 
a man whom I knew very we ll. He told me that "We re going to con 
tinue to kill them and the American people have got to get used to 
killing." The situation got so bad that Mr. John Nuveen the head 
of the American Mission, who was under the ambassador, came to me 
and wanted me to again interview the ambassador to see whether some 
thing couldn t be done to stop this shooting of prisoners. He said 
he had tried but he d had no success; and felt that since I knew 
Mr. Grady that I might be able to get something done to stop the 
killing. But I was not able to make any impression at all. Mr. 
Nuveen was transferred shortly after that t.o Belgium, where he was 
not involved in the Greek picture. 

Baum: Did the military segment disagree with the shooting, or was that 
their idea? 

Packard: It s hard to know but General James Van Fleet was called "the 
killer" by some of the Greeks. Our American officers who were 
there didn t do the actual shooting. But they didn t stop the 
shooting, certainly. The report was that something over 3,000 
Greek prisoners were shot during that period. Emma had an ex 
perience which might be recorded here. 


Baum: What happened? 


Packard: I was invited by the American-born Greek wife of one of our Ameri 
can employees in the Mission to go with her to visit the sister of 
her Greek m;ii(l, who was a prisoner in the Women s Prison in the 
center of Athens. The army or the Greek government had made an 
offer to the so-called Communists who were in prison that if they 
would sign certain papers agreeing to the conditions set forth, 
that they would be released from the prison. My friend was at 
tempting to convince this girl that it was to her interest to 
sign these papers. ... The matron in charge brought in the woman -- 
a peasant type of about thirty years, with a strong and intel 
ligent face 1 . I could not understand the conversation, but it was 
evident that she was antagonistic to the idea and she did not con 
sent to sign. 

Baum: Would she be shot if she did not? 


Packard: I don t know. I never heard about her again. However while I 

observed the room, I saw another village peasant woman talking 
with her undersized fourteen year old son. Later the matron told 
us that she was a "Communist" who was saying goodbye to her son 
and she was to be shot the next day. The matron seemed a kindly 
sort of person and asked if we would see a young physician among 
the prisoners who was much concerned about the health of the chil 
dren in the prison. 
Baum: Do you mean they put children in jail? 



Packard: Some of them were born in jail and it was the policy to allow 

children under three years of age to be with their mothers who 
were in jail -- these were "political" prisoners, you under 
stand, who had not been tried in court. When these children 
reached the age of three years, they were taken to an orphanage 
for care and schooling. The American women sponsored one such 
orphanage-, lu-lplng with clothing, other supplies and recreation 
for these unfortunate- children. 

Baum: Was this physician employed to care for the prisoners? 


Packard: No. She herself was arrested on charges of being a Communist. 

She was a small, dainty Greek woman of about 35 or 40 years, and 
she concerned herself with the children especially. She brought 
a couple of them in to show us how their teeth had not come in 
properly or had immediately decayed off to the gums because of 
lack of milk and other proper foods. We were taken out into their 
exercise yard to sec whore they could walk and get fresh air. . . . 
As distressed us we were, it seemed a touchy diplomatic question 
as to how we American women could help "Communists" in jail in a 
Greek prison during a Greek civil war, and I think we ended by 
doing nothing except what was done for those children who finally 
were put in the orphanage. I remember they were brought to an 
American Christmas party with a big Christmas tree with gifts 
for each child. ... This young doctor was only one of many 
teachers and professional people who saw the poverty and wanted 



Packard: to do something about it, but ended up in prison as "Communists". 

One will never know the final statistics on this situation but 
it was very sad especially for some of us who had been out into 
the countryside and saw first hand the poverty and deprivations 
of so many villagers without much economic hope -- underfed and 

T have just rt-acl (August, 1966) William Hard s book Raymond 
Robins Story, in which Robins makes a strong point of what he 
calls the "Indoor Mind" of the diplomats in Russia of that time, 
who never got out into the country and widened their views to an 
"Outdoor Mind" which saw the conditions which had forced the 
revolution of 93% of the Russian people against the 1L who had 
control of the land and resources, leaving the 937 destitute and 
"under the knout" of the Army, Cossacks, and Czar. Tolstoy had 
told the story -- Can people learn from history? 
Packard: The Civil War in Greece began as a result of the decision 

of Winston Churchill to support the return to Greece of the gov- 
ernment-in-exile, as against the resistance group that had stayed 
in Greece to fight the Germans. In the case of Yugoslavia, Mr. 
Churchill selected Tito, a Communist leader, against Mihailovic, 
a non-Communist anti -German man. But in Greece he selected the 
government-in-exile. He arranged for a plebiscite that was super 
vised by Dr. Henry Grady. That arrangement was not acceptable to 
many of the resistance forces who refused to participate in the 
election and went out in u civil war. It Htartec) In Athens , where- 


Packard: there was a great deal of shooting, but soon spread to the hills 
and mountains. Some of the American technicians were captured by 
the andartes and held for some days. But no American was ever 
seriously injured. 

One of my first encounters with the violence of the revolu 
tion was when I visited the Copais project for the first time, in 
the Spring of 1948. I went over the project with the Englishman 
who w;is in charge and went out to the power plant that had been 
smashed by tho andartes just a few days before. And I was told 
that the man who did the damage was caught in one of the villages 
near there and his head was put on a pike and carried around from 
one village to another as a warning to others. 

Anyway, the Copais project covered about 50,000 acres. It 
used to be a swamp. And in the 1880 s the French started to drain 
it. They dug deep drains and a tunnel through the mountains to 
carry the water into the sea. The plan worked very well until the 
peat caught fire and burned for several years. Finally the level 
of the lake got so low that it wouldn t drain. The French were 
going broke and the British came in and bought them out. They 
flooded the area to put the fire out, dug deeper drains and lowered 
the tunnel so that the drainage system would work. Then they ir 
rigated by occasionally stopping the drains and letting the water 
table rise until all the surface was wet. And then they d open 
the drains and the water level would go down again. Cotton was 
the only irrigated crop and the yields were very low because the 


Packard: lower root system would rot when the water level was raised. I 
demonstrated this by digging up some of the cotton plants showing 
the rotted roots. 

The British manager lived rather sumptuously at the ranch head 
quarters surrounded by trees and gardens. The Greek government 
took over the property in 1953, in whtit they considered to be the 
public interest. I was asked by the Greek Minister of Agriculture 
to suggest a man to take over the management of the ranch. I se 
lected Kimon Constantinides who was a part of the YPEM organiza 
tion, which was a Greek government division of the Irrigation 
Division. He experimented with sprinkle irrigation to avoid the 
over-irrigation and rotting of roots by the old subirrigation 
system. Under his management the area was enlarged and production 

Baum: When you say the British owned it, do you mean it was government 
owned or owned by a British firm? 

Packard: No, not government, it was owned by a British company. 

Baum: When the Greek government took over the project did they subdivide 
the land and distribute it, as they did in other cases? 

Packard: Since the project was a rather complicated drainage and irrigation 
project it had to be managed in an orderly way. The villagers in 
the areas surrounding the project did participate,but the final ar 
rangement was made after I left. 

Baum: And I wonder how that works. A lot of people feel people will 
not manage their property sufficiently. 


Packard: Well, that s the only way they ve ever done it in Greece. It s 
very much like the Mormons do in Utah. They live in their vil 
lages and go out to their farms. It works fairly well. 

Baum: I think it sounds inucl) In-ttt r socially than isolating each person 
out on Ills own little plot. 

Packard: Yes. And from tin- standpoint of protection, it s much better to 
live in a village than out. 

Baum: I read somewhere that one of the problems was coordination and 

for a while the Mission was divided between military and economic 
contingents and that this didn t work. 

Packard: Yes, that s right. Whenever we d have a staff meeting and the 
military would come in, nobody spoke his mind at all. What the 
military said went. I never heard of any members of the economic 
mission mooting with tin- military staff. (Laughter) There was a 
civil war going on and Americans were helping the government side. 
And the war took precedence over everything else. There was no 
discussion of military affairs in the economic aid staff meetings. 

Baum: But that wasn t true all the time you were there because after a 
while the military situation became less serious. 

Packard: Well, the military was there all the time I was there. 

Baum: But I mean the crucial part of the war was less. 

Packard: The shooting war only lasted a couple of years. By 1950 it was 

pretty well over. But during all the time I was in Greece, there 
was the atmosphere of a police state. Even during my last few 
months In Crei-ci- wlitMi 7 d make trips Into the field, I d often In- 
stepped as many as ten times a day by gendarmes who would make 


Packard: the people in the car show written statements from the president 
of their village or some 1 other authority for their right to be 
riding with mo. Tt was very difficult. I remember one time 
when we were in Missolonghi we were going up to the Agrinion 
Plains to visit some projects on the way. Well, the representa 
tive of the Ministry of Agriculture in Missolonghi had a car which 
he drove to the first project. Then somebody else took his car 
and went on. So he was left and had to ride in my car. When we 
got close to Agrinion, within about a quarter of a mile of the 
edge of the town, he got out and walked in because he didn t want 
to be found riding in my car without a permit although his car 
was already in town. He just was afraid of being arrested. 

Another time when we were down in the lower Nestos River . . . 

Baum: Now was this before 1950? 

Packard: No. This was 1954. 

Baum: Was there any legitimate reason for this kind of ... 

Packard: I didn t think so. I resented it all the way. I was especially 
provoked when, on returning after the curfew hour from the Nestos 
River Delta where we were stuck in the mud, the engineers in one 
of the cars were arrested for being out after ten o clock. I, of 
course, went to the jail and demanded that I be arrested along 
with the rest. I also demanded the right to call the Prime 
Minister and the Mission Chief. I was, I presume, a little ob 
noxious. In any case, after an hour or so everyone was released 
and we went on our way and got to our quarters about two in the 
morning without being arrested again. It wasn t funny for a 


Packard: Greek though. 

Baum: No, and it sounds like it certainly slowed down your work. 

Packard: Oh it did, definitely. 

Baum: Do you think these petty annoyances were small gendarmes that were 
taking their responsibilities beyond the point that they were sup 
posed to be carried? 

Packard: No. It was part of a police state, which seemed to be accepted. 
I had an interesting experience down in the lower delta of 
the Acheloos River in southwestern Greece. We were going to the 
village to suggest that we reclaim some land south of the village 
and we thought we could reclaim quite an area. So we first went 
to the village and discussed the plans with the group in a taverna. 
Then we went out with a committee from the village to look at the 
land. And I noticed a group of young people over to one side who 
apparently wanted to talk to me. So, with one of my engineer 
friends who could speak Greek, I went over to talk with them. 
They said they were sons of poor landless farmers. They had no 
land and no jobs, and didn t know what they were going to do. 
And while we were standing there planes were flying over from an 
adjoining airfield where they were taking off to bomb the andartes 
in the hills on both sides of this valley. It was rather dramatic. 
I said, "We hope to reclaim this land. This will create many pro 
ductive farms. We are planning to build a big hydro-electric 
project on that river that would create power and bring in in 
dustry." And they said, "That s all right when you say so, but 


Packard: "when you leave what are we going to do? The Greek government 
won t do this for us." And I said, "Yes, they will." 

R.-uim: They had more con fi dence In the- American Mission than in the 
Greek government ? 

Packard: Oh yes. At that time they did. 

Problems of Financial and Political Support for Reclamation 

There was another time when the Communist issue came up in a 
rather interesting way. I had gone along with reclamation work 
and I was spending a considerable amount of money. And the 
Washington office wanted to curtail because there was a degree 
of inflation. Money was going down in value and inflation was 
taking place. And so they picked on my program as one of the 
programs they could shut down so that they would stop spending 
money. So I was ordered to close down my projects. I had to 
dismiss several thousand men who were working on these projects. 
So I became sort of desperate. I hated to do what I was ordered 
to do. But if we couldn t get the money I couldn t do anything 

So finally I arranged to have the group at the head office 
take a trip up to Salonika, and from there go by car through a 
portion of Macedonia and over into Thrace to see what we were 
doing. I took them over some reclamation projects and a rice 
field where we were leveling land just ready to put in the crop. 


Packard: Then I took them into the mountains to show one of our forestry 
programs where we were reforesting an area. That night, when we 
were coming down a mountain road that had been made by the Mis 
sion, not many miles from the Bulgarian border, about forty or 
fifty Greek men stopped us on the road. They said they wanted 
to have the Americans know that they hadn t been paid for forty 
days. They d bt>cn working on this project and they couldn t even 
be paid for whnt they d done and their store credit was gone and 
their families were .suffering. They said they wanted the Ameri 
cans to know. Well, I was delighted with this because I thought 
now the officials will be convinced. But when I got back to 
Athens the answer was still no. They wouldn t do anything. 

So, about a week later the head of the biggest labor union 
in Salonika came down to Athens to see me. And he told quite a 
story again about how labor was suffering. He said they had a 
meeting of their union, which was the biggest union in Macedonia, 
and they cnme within a few votes of going Communist. And he said, 
"If you don t get those men back to work it will go Communist." 
So I took this man right in to see Mr. Roger Lapham, who was then 
the Mission Chief.* And Lapham had been ordered not to spend 

*Lapham, Roger, "An Interview on Shipping, Labor, City Government, 
and American Foreign Aid," typed transcript of a tape-recorded 
interview conducted by Corinne L. Gilb, University of California 
General Library, Regional Cultural History Project, (Berkeley, 
1957), pp. 496. 


Packard: money, just as I had. But he said, "The hell with Washington," 

and he assigned enough money to me right then to go ahead and re- 
hire these people 1 . And he said, "They can fire me in Washington 
but I m not going to lei them do this." So we got the program 
going again and rehired the people. 

Baum: I ve heard it said that if you want American aid, raise some com 
munist issue and you will get it. (Laughter) 

Packard: That seemed to be the case in this instance. But finally when we 
really got the work finished the Washington group recognized that 
what we had done in increasing production of agricultural crops 
had done more in a positive way to stop inflation than any other 
thing because they were raising their own food. So they were very 
favorable to what I had done after this was all over. 

Baum: At what point had the decision been made to cut your program? Was 
it in Washington or was it in Greece? 

Packard: It was in Washington. And I think at least a third of my time 

was taken up in revamping programs. When appropriations were made 
on the first of July they d say, now you have so much money. So 
we d lay out a program for that amount of money. Then months 
later they d say we hadn t got that much money so you ve got to 
cut-back. And we d revamp and revamp. It was terribly irritating 
and terribly frustrating. It cut down the work a great deal be 
cause I could have been spending my time on other things. In 
retrospect I think I must have been somewhat stubborn. (Laughter) 
I was in my later sixties and probably a little set in my ways as 


Packard: indicated by the following poem presented at my 70th birthday 
by Charles White, the Comptroller for the Mission: 

"Shall we Retrench or Rc-trcnch", February 22, 1954 

Our Walter went down to his office one day 

To find that his money had all gone away 

Inflation is rampant they said at FP (Finance and Planning) 

So our drachmas are scarce, they re as scarce as can be 

The cables say cut back the projects you run 

Although they all knew it ain t any fun 

They claim reclamation has now got to stop, 

When Walter heard this he just blew his top 

We ve worked and we ve slaved and we ve struggled for years 

We re making great progress in spite of our fears 

And now when we re getting so near to the end 

They tell us to stop. So a cable We 11 send 

To ConnHlly, Acheson, Truman and Taft 

To tell them this time they surely are daft 

For how can we ever get Greece off our back 

Until they produce all the food that they lack 

That your jobs are expensive, we re sure you ll agree 

Oh, not by a damn site replied Walter P. 

We mustn t relax. We must stand up and fight em 

I ll keep up the argument ad infinitum 

So among all the rows and among all the bitching 

We know that our Walter is still in there pitching 

Now here s to you Walter. Keep up the good fight, 

And perhaps in the end they ll decide you are right. 

Baum: You must have been a thorn in the side of the administration. 

Packard: I presume I was. There was quite a bit of opposition to me in 

Washington. Brice Mnce, who was head of the Agricultural Division 
in Greece was In a Paris con Terence with the Washington group. 
And he said he d never attended a meeting where there was such 
an insistent demand that a man be fired as there was that I be 
fired at that time. Because I was trying to do things and the 
Washington office was constantly trying to hold us up. They 
didn t know what we were doing. They were just an annoyance and 
I didn t like it. And consequently I didn t take it very well. 


Packard: One time Francis Lincoln, who represented the State Depart 
ment, was in from Washington and he said, "Walter, if you go 
ahead anil give n report..." I was going to give a report on how 
my work was being curtailed and how important I thought it was. 
He said, "You put in that report and you ll be fired. I can tell 
you that you ll be fired." So I thought if I m going to be fired 
I d better do it well. So I asked for a special meeting of the 
Mission staff, which Mr. Lapham granted . I had maps and dia 
grams and made a very good impression. They liked it. 

Baum: So, some of the foot dragging was coming from right within the 

Packard: No, the foot dragging was in the Washington office that was sup 
plying the funds. And they were just constantly changing the pro 
grams around. I was always careful not to disobey the security 
rules no matter how silly I thought most of them to be. If you 
got three black marks you had to leave. One morning I found a cen 
sure note from security on my desk and went immediately to find 
out what I had done. I found that I was criticized for having a 
map of Greece on my office wall with pins showing the location of 
the reclamation projects. The security officer said that any 
Russian coming into the office could learn where all the projects 
were located. I asked him what I could do, I needed the maps. He 
said that if I cut the edges off the map showing the latitude and 
longitude, the black mark against me would be removed. (Laughter) 


Greek Technical Assistants 

Baum: You told me that many of the men you worked with were Greeks, and 
that they sometimes encountered security problems because of al 
leged Communist sympathies. Could you give some examples of your 
assistants and how the situation was lor them? 

Packard: Yes. For example, one of my Greek assistants, a very intense fel 
low, and an excellent engineer, had worked up a new device for 
flying that would simulate the type of flying that humming birds 
do. Very fast moving, they could dart back and forth and up and 
down. And he had written articles in two or three standard 
American technical magazines on aeronautics, and was intensely in 
terested in the development of this device. And the air force was 
interested, too. But security had said that he had favored the 
Communists at some time and that they had something against him. 
I saw his machine and I was very much impressed. I wrote a lot 
of letters trying to get some decent judgment on his situation 
but to no avail. He was very anxious to get to the United States 
to accept an invitation he had to work with American technicians. 
But I was never able to get any accommodation at all. It was im 
possible for me to do anything. 

Well there was still another case where a Greek engineer who 
was a captain in the resistance movement had been hired by an 
American previously to work with UNNRA. And this American wa 
then in the Mission and knew him very well and recommended him 
very highly. He was on the island with other supposed Communists. 


Packard: But through a relative of his, a general in the army, he was re 
leased. And on the recommendation of this American, who had em 
ployed him before, I hired him myself as an engineer. He could 
speak English, French, and Greek and he was a very capable en 
gineer, lie hadn t been there more than two or three weeks be 
fore our security required that I fire him. So I had to. But I 
still needed his skills. So I suggested to the Ministry of Ag 
riculture in the Greek government that they take him on so that 
we could continue to work together. They said, "We can t do that 
if the Americans have fired him." So I knew a Greek friend who 
was a very good friend of the then prime minister, Plastiris, and 
she arranged for us all to have dinner. I told him about this 
young man -- and he said he d get him employed immediately and 
the next morning he was put on the staff of the Ministry of 
Agriculture. He remained there all the time that I was there 
and some years later. And then went into consulting work as a 
private engineer and is doing very well. 

But then to show the mixture of people that I had to work 
with, there was another young fellow that I employed; he was a 
very capable engineer, young and rather small, very agile and 
rather nervous. He was educated in England. He told me, "I 
want you to know just what I am. I m a Fascist. I m against 
the Communists. If I saw one of those god damn Communists, I d 
shoot him." But when he dealt with me his attitude couldn t 
have been better. He wanted to do everything we wanted to do. 


Packard: He was for what we were doing. And he was a very capable fellow. 
Finally he had to leave because he got a very good job with the 
government In developing some hydro- electric project. And when 
he left he wrote me one of the most beautiful letters I ve ever 
received. It was an emotional letter supporting me in every way 
possible. And it really affected me very deeply. 

Then I had another man on my staff, Trimis , who was an older 
man and an agriculturist. Security said that he had tuberculosis 
and he couldn t work in the office. Nobody could see that he had 
tuberculosis. He was going along all right so far as I could see. 
His wife had been taken prisoner by the andartes and forced to 
walk 125 miles from Athens up to Lamia. As a result, she s been 
an invalid for the rest of her life. So he was completely anti- 
communist. But I worked with him very nicely. And like Exidis, 
he was very anxious to do everything. So I got him a job in the 
Ministry of Agriculture so that he continued working with me. 
He worked with me all the rest of the time I was in Greece. I 
got his daughter a job as secretary in the Mission to help the 
family out. They lost everything during the Second World War. 
One of his sons was educated in this country. He came to see us 
here in Berkeley. He married an American girl that he d met in 
college, and they went back and were at the American Farm School. 
He s devoting his life now to the American Farm School. 

Baum: I ve been reading that in some of the African nations you can t 
do any business because you can t find the minister in charge. 
He hasn t got a phone, he s moved his office to some secret 


Baum: place. 

Packard: Well, that wasn t true in Greece. In the beginning of our stay 
in Greece, the Ministry of Coordination had a large oval table 
in a big room. And there were earphones So that everything 
that was said was translated from English to Greek and Greek to 
English, so you could get the conversation going on at all times. 
And T UK i % d to attend those meetings. It was an excellent way of 
getting in touch with the Greek officials and their ideas. 

Baum: So most of your contact was man to man, rather than going through 
the correct channels. 

Packard: Yes, it was. I had to go through channels but they were al 
ways receptive. And we never had any difficulties from that 
standpoint. Perhaps I shouldn t have started this Greek story 
with an account of the difficulties I encountered but, after 
all, the Civil War dominated everything for a while. 

Life in Greece 

Mrs . Packard Comes to Greece 

Baum: Was Mrs. Packard with you at that time or not yet? 

Packard: No. She did not come out with me because the job was only for a 
four months appointment when I went in March, 1948. We had just 
returned to our home in Berkeley after two years away in Puerto 

Rico, and it seemed best for her to await developments there. 


Packard: Walter left for Greece in March. In June I had word from him 

that the job had been extended for a period of two years and that 



Packard: I was to come- to Greece as soon as they could get him cleared 

through the FBI. At tluil time he was transferred from AMAG to 
the new Foreign Aid program, Economic Cooperation Administration 
(EGA) . 

Packard: Here I might say that I was sent without FBI clearance because 
they were in a hurry to get the work done. But they warned me 
that if I did not finally get the clearance that I would have to 

pay my own way back home! 


Packard: Neighbors told me that they were being questioned by the FBI about 

us but time dragged on until September. Then I had a telephone 
call from the State Department saying that I could now come to 
Greece, by plane or ship, and giving some instructions about bag 
gage and passports. So I assumed that the FBI clearance had been 

I finally flew to New York and took passage on the re 
conditioned Greek ship the Nea Hellas, a combined freight and 
passenger ship. The trip took sixteen days from New York to the 
Athens port at Piraeus where we finally disembarked on November 8, 

Hmim: Were there oilier Americans on the ship? 

rncfturcl: Yes. I think most of tin- first class passengers were Americans 
on their way to Greece. A lew were men but mostly they were 
American women joining their husbands in Athens -- embassy, army, 
or civilian employees... Among them was Mrs. Paul Jenkins whose 
husband later became head of "Food and Agriculture" Division in 



Packard: the American Mission. My roommate happened to be an employee of 

the Unitc-d States Embassy. Afterward I found out that she was 
one of the "secret code breakers" of the Embassy and that she 
was the one who translated the message from the FBI which sent us 
home the next March! 

It was a very happy trip across, with long hours of stops at 
Lisbon, Gibraltar, Naples, and, finally, Piraeus. We were able 
to go sightseeing via taxis at these ports and managed to visit 
the ruins at Pompeii. All of these ports mentioned were filled 
with the wrecks of sunken ships -- the wreckage of World War II -- 
war damage was very much in evidence everywhere we landed. 

The U.S.A. election of 1948 took place during that trip. 
We Americans listened to the ship s radio and heard the returns 
coming in, which gradually showed that Truman was winning over 
Dewey and a groan of disappointment was heard, since most of the 
Americans aboard were Republicans, it seemed. So far as we could 
determine, my roommate and I were the only Democrats on board. 
The others went to the bar to try to forget and we went to our 
stateroom and chuckled! 

Walter and Paul Jenkins managed to board the ship with the 
pilot and accompanied us through the customs proceedings in 
Piraeus. The harbor at Piraeus was full of sunken ships and the 
docks were in ruins. I remember some of the passengers let their 
hand luggage over the side of the ship by ropes and we had to 
descend a shaky ladder to the makeshift dock. Everywhere there 


Baum: Was the hotel food safe to eat? I mean, it did not make you sick 

as it sometimes does in Mexico? 


Packard: The food was safe in the good hotels, although there was always 

risk in oat ing uncooked foods or unpeelcd fruits. When traveling 
out into I lie countryside we tried t<> stick to cooked foods at 
the- local restaurants. Even so, th iro was some trouble with 
digestive upsets. There was one cp .domic of infectious hepatitis 
among Americans but we escaped that. 

Baum: What about medical care? 

Packard: The armed forces had a big clinic ii Athens, with four army or 

navy doctors on call, which took care of the army personnel, the 
American embassy, and EGA employees and their families. This was 
our first experience with "socialized medicine" and it was free 
for the most part, except for about four dollars a day for board 
and room if we were sent to the hospital. 

Baum: Was that an American hospital? 

Packard: The Americans had a wing of the big Greek hospital but mostly 

used the Greek facilities of X-ray and such equipment. The Greeks 
had free medical services in the cities at that time, as well as 
tuberculosis hospitals in the country near Athens. 

Baum: Did all the American employees live at the various hotels? 

Packard: No. If it is safe to generalize, cne might say that finally 
the families with children tried tc rent homes, many of which 
were available in Athens and especially in the various suburbs 
such as Kifisia and Psychico. Manj; of the wealthier Greeks had 


Packard: summer homes in Kifisia where the altitude of about a thousand 

feet made for a much cooler climate during the very hot summers. 
These were often rented by Americans on a year round lease. 
Single people were apt Lo stay at the hotels or rent apartments 
and many of the older couples without children remained in the 

Uaum: Wluit did the- American women do with their time in a foreign 

country? Did they keep house or hire servants? 


Packard: Those who lived in houses almost had to depend upon servants. In 

the first place, it was difficult to cope with the sometimes primi 
tive (comparatively) equipment, and language difficulties of 


marketing. Also, there were so many applicants for such jobs 
that one Celt obliged to give work -- in self defense, almost, 
since they kept applying if no one was hired. Some of these women 
were the only support of their families. Some of them spoke 
English but the American children soon learned to speak enough 
Greek to translate for their parents. Greeks love children. 

Baum: What about social life? 


Packard: During the first two years when the Civil War was in progress, 

there was almost no social life. Dancing was forbidden to the 
Greeks. Fuel was scarce and expensive so homes were cold and 
there was a curfew. 


American Women s Activities in Greece - AWOG 

Baum: What about clubs or group activities? 


Packard: I suppose this is a good place to introduce the "American Women 

of Greece", known as AWOG. Dr. Henry Francis Grady was ap 
pointed as ambassador to Greece and arrived with his wife, 
Lucri t La Dr1 Vallr Grady, in the late .summer of 1948. We 
knew Mrs. Grady in Mexico and later in Berkeley where Dr. Grady 
was on the ("acuity at the University of California. Mrs. Grady, 
with her characteristic energy and imagination, began to organize 
the American women in various activities. The first one I re 
member was a fashion show at the Gran Bretagne Hotel in Athens 
which was staged a few days after my arrival in November. 

Baum: Why a fashion show during such a hard period? 


Packard: I think mostly for the stimulus to the Greek industry of silk- 
making and tailoring. People must wear clothes and the Greek 
women have an innate pride of dress and appearance. Few, if any, 
ready-made clothing was available and many women made the family 
living by sewing. The markets were full of hand-woven as well as 
factory made materials -- silk, cotton, and woolens. There were 
couturier shops, often patterned on the French styles in Athens 
which catered to the wealthier Greeks. Mrs. Grady hoped to pro 
mote more business abroard for these materials and the fashion 
show was later taken to the United States and a show given in 
San Francisco, among other cities. 

Baum: You spoke of silks -- do they raise the silkworms there? 


Packard : 


Mrs . 
Packard : 



Yes, it is an important industry, especially in Macedonia where 
the mulberry trees thrive and produce the food for the worms. 
The Greek government has promoted this work and the manufacture 
of the high grade silks. 
When was AWOG started? 

I llnd in an old .summary of AWOG activities that J made in 1954, 
that the first year s membership for 1948-1949 wa.s 398. I think 
Mrs. Grady was instrumental in this first organization. By May, 
1950, the club had joined with the American Federation of Women s 
Clubs. I have copies of some of the yearbooks and the constitu 
tions which we printed and can deposit them with this record. 
What kind of work did the club do? 

It was usually organized around some need that we saw among the 
Greeks and adapted to local conditions. The club was organized 
into sections, with a chairman for each, who, with the elected 
officers made up the board which planned the work and programs. 
Finance, education, and foreign affairs were three of the active 
groups. I was chairman of the latter and we planned programs for 
monthly meetings around some "hot spot", of which there were many 
at that time. One I remember was the Tunisian revolt and 
Bourguiba was the leader who was giving France a headache. I 
tried to find a speaker and finally went to the French Embassy-- 
I remember the man in charge was quite irked by the American of 
ficial attitude toward the TuniHian situation but he did 



Packard: a speaker -- a French girl, married to one of our American Embassy 

employees, whose parents owned a date garden in Tunisia... Her 
attitude toward the Arabs who were the labor force hired to do 
the work was pretty much the same as the Southern attitude toward 
our Negroes -- that they are lazy, ignorant and undependable -- 
the classic colonial estimate of natives who do the work... We 
were amused to learn that her parents owned a large estate in 
France, near the Swiss border, and that Gertrude Stein lived in 
one of their cottages for many years. Our speaker s name was 
Rose and she proved to be the very child about whom Gertrude Stein 
wrote the famous poem "A rose is a rose is a rose"... 

One of our largest meetings was held in the American Embassy, 
with husbands invited. The subject was "Irrigating the Garden of 
Eden", with Charles Travis as speaker. He was the engineer in 
charge of the master plan for irrigating Greece and his company 
(known briefly as "Knappen Tippetts") had a similar project for 
the Iraqi government, centered in Baghdad. Ambassador John 
Peurifoy and his wife attended this lecture, and had as their guest 
one of the Cabots (of Massachusetts), "who speak only to God", who 
had been on a diplomatic mission to Egypt. Mr. Travis gave a very 
enlightening lecture, illustrated with maps, of the plan for re 
storing the ancient irrigation systems of the Tigris and Euphrates 
Rivers in the modern development of Iraq. Not long after this 
meeting Mr. Travis was killed in an airplane crash while on a trip 
in the Middle East -- a shocking tragedy to the American colony. 


Baum: What about the welfare work the club did? 


Packard: Thousands of children were evacuated from villages during the 

Civil War and placed in hospitals where they had care and some 
schooling. Some were orphans -- their fathers were mostly in 
the Greek army. This was a project of Queen Fredericka. I don t 
know who financed it -- probably the U.S.A. and the Greek govern 

I havo in my old rrport a list of the various organizations 
that the club helped, as follows: Soteria -- a TB hospital; Queen 
Sophia Childrens "Hospitals ; maternity hospitals; the Leprosarium 
Orphanage (children were taken from leper parents to prevent in 
fections), foundling homes; day nurseries; blind school. We could 
not do much, but often held Christmas parties with small gifts 
for the children or patients. 

There were many sewing groups where the women met to make 
clothing for orphanages from materials purchased with our funds. 
Another activity was collecting used clothing for distribution in 
refugee camps or poorer village s. I remember a committee took two 
truck loads up to a mountain village and distributed the garments. 
Later, as the war conditions eased a little, we concentrated our 
funds more on education -- scholarships to promising individuals and 
to colleges. Among these were the American Farm School in Salonika, 
Pierce College for Girls (founded by the Congregational Church) 
and Athens College for Boys. The head of this school for many 
years was Homer Davis, a graduate of the University of California 



Packard: at Berkeley. 

Another project was a series of eight lectures and tours to 
classical sites on Saturdays. The American School for Classical 
Studies cooperated and furnished the speakers. The hat was passed 
after each lecture and the money -- a total of $7,000 over the 
years, was donated to the school as matching funds for the 
Rockefeller Foundation to be used in the restoration of the 
Stoa of Attalus. This work has now been completed in the ancient 
site of Athens, below the Acropolis. 

The finance committee raised funds in some of the following 
ways -- e.g., in 1950-51 my record shows: Christmas card sale, 
$2,020; Moonlight Ball, $1,070; Christmas TB seals, $1,680; 
Total, $4,770. Together with the $5.00 annual dues, it totaled 
$5,500. Total money raised for six years: $30,649.95 
Average income per year, $5,108.32 
Total scholarships (6-year period) , $6,688.46 
Total welfare, (6-year period), $20,436.54 

The membership varied from a low of 202 in 1950-51 to a high of 
398 -- an average per year of 293 members. 

Baum: Were there other clubs besides this one? 


Packard: The wives of American armed forces personnel had their own club. 

The Hellenic-American Club was organized with an equal number of 
Greek and American women members. This was largely a get- acquainted 
cultural club that met once a month. The Greeks put on a program 



Packard: one month and the Americans the next. The programs tended to 

be musical or literary. One program was a reading of his poetry 
by Robert Peter Tristram Coffin, our American Pulitzer Prize 
winning poet from Dowdoin College, Maine, who spent a year lec 
turing in the University of Athens. I have copies of some of 
the lectures tliut he gave at the University, which many of us 
attended . 

Because of our work in donating to the Stoa of Attalus, the 
American School for Classical Studies invited our group to watch 
the opening of an ancient grave that had just been discovered by 
the archeologists at the foot of the Acropolis. The workmen 
carefully excavated a large vase or amphora, about three feet 
tall -- lying on its side. It was taken to the workroom for care 
ful examination. They found the fragile skull of a child and 
small pieces of pottery. Later, when the work of restoration was 
finished, we were invited to the exhibition. 

Baum: Is AWOG still in existence? 


Packard: Yes. I had a letter recently from a Greek secretary who is now 

working for our embassy. She told of entering some of her water 
colors in an art exhibition sponsored by AWOG. Since there must 
still be hundreds of American women living in Greece, working in 
the embassy, educational institutions, or in private business, it 
is likely to keep alive indefinitely. 


Public vs. Private Development of Hydroelectric Power 
FAO Memorandum 

Packard: On arriving in Greece- I was given a copy of the United Nations 
Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) report prepared by a 
group which preceded the American Mission to Greece, of which I 
i was a part. They made 1 a rather exhaustive study of the whole- 
reclamation field, including the development of hydropower as 
part of what they recommended as multi-purpose projects. They 
were very insistent that all this should go together -- drainage, 
irrigation, flood control, and power. 

The Greek government, following the FAO memorandum, got out 
a report of what they thought the Greek hydroelectric potential 
might be, at least in the immediate future, called: "Memorandum 
on the Four Year Plan for Electric Power of the Greek Government." 
This report showed that the potential hydroelectric power output 
from six rivers representing the major source of hydroelectric 
power in Greece was estimated at 5,724,000,000 KWH per year, 
according to the program of rehabilitation of the country published 
by the Greek government in 1947. This roughly approximates the 
initial output of 4,380,000 KWH at Boulder Dam, later increased to 
more than double that figure. Although this potential power resource 
does not represent an abundant supply for a population of seven and a 
half million people, it was the only significant native source of 
energy in Greece other than human labor, the power of draft animals, 


Packard: and deposits of low grade lignite. 

I soon found that the State Department had employed W.E. 
Cornt/.im, .-in hydraulic engineer with fifteen years experience 
witli tin* U.S. llunviii ol Reclamation, as part of the Corps of 
Engineers, United States Army, and he became Commissioner of the 
Water Economy of the Division of the Ministry of Public Works, re 
porting to AMAG through the Reconstruction Division of the Mission. 
In this position Corfitzen was in charge of all hydroelectric de 
velopment in Greece. No project, in theory, could be constructed 
with American aid without his approval. He proceeded to study the 
situation in Greece and develop plans for project development along 
the lines recommended in the FAO report. He, of course, knew 
William L. Nrwmeyer the Bureau of Reclamation engineer who pre 
pared that portion of the FAO report dealing with reclamation 
work and hydroelectric development. 

The Scharff Report 

"The Scharff Report; Without consulting Corfitzen, Mr. Gilmore, 
head of the Industry Division of the American Mission, employed 
Maurice R. Scharff who proposed a contract between the Greek state 
and the Hellenic Hydroelectric and Metallurgical Corporation, an 
American corporation which had a concession for power development 
on the Acheloos River." (Paragraph 6 Scharff report) 

This concession wns secured during the Metaxas dictatorship 
some years before the American Mission was established. The Greek 
government was not inclined to recognize this concession because 


Packard: it was against the public interest. It was a pre-war arrangement 
that had not been carried out. (For details see page 5 of memo 
of July 5, 1949, written by Walter Packard.) 

UiUim: Could you cxphiin why there had been no contact between Mr. 
Corfitzen and Mr. Scharff? 

Packard: I can t tell you why, no. Mr. Scharff was an engineer for the 

Electric Bond and Share Company (EBASCO) and he just made his own 
study independently. Perhaps he didn t know Corfitzen was there. 
There definitely was a lack of coordination in the Mission. The 
Industry Division particularly was inclined to go off on its own 
as will be seen later. 

Baum: It must have made for bad feelings. 

Packard: Well, it did. It caused quite a lot of bad feeling later on. 

The Gilmore Memorandum 

"The Gilmore Memorandum: On the basis of the Scharff report, 
Mr. Gilmore proceeded to draft a memorandum to the Paris office 
of the Economic Cooperation Administration (EGA) to be signed by 
Mr. Griswold who was in charge of foreign policy. It set forth a 
program to be used at the Paris conference as a basis for the es 
tablishment of a power policy for ECA which was to replace AMAG. 
A few days later Mr. Corfitzen left for Washington and before 
going told me that he would not return if the Gilmore policy were 
put into effect." (Pages 6 and 7, memorandum of July 5, 1949, 
Walter Packard.) 


Packard: Corfitzen returned for a while but was quite ill and I car 
ried on in his place and was appointed as chairman of the Power 
Committee, including Greeks and Americans, by Mr. John Nuveen, 
the first administrator of the EGA program. 

Baum: Who was Mr. Corfitzen? Where did he come from? 

Packard: He was a Bureau of Reclamation engineer that the Mission had hired 
In the very beginning. 

Baum: It sounded like he was holding positions in the Greek government. 

Packard: He was, yes. He was director of this joint effort between the 
Mission and the Greek government. 

(Pages 7 and 8 of memo of July 5, 1949) 

"Following his policy of overlooking Mr. Corfitzen and the 
Water Economy of the Ministry of Public Works... the Gilmore 
report recommends that all three hydroelectric power projects 
mentioned In the memorandum be turned over to American corpora 
tions, or to Greek corporations controlled or to be controlled 
by American corporations." (Source of quote, 4th paragraph 
Griswold memorandum.) 

"The memorandum suggested that the Ladhon project be 
turned over to the Athens Piraeus Electricity Company which 
was one of the largest and best established companies in 
Greece and was controlled by Bodossaki Athanasiados . " (Source 
of quote, paragraph 14 Gilmore memorandum.) 

Incidtentally , it was the Bodossaki Corporation that got 
practically every one of the private loans made by the Mission 


Packard: during the six and a half years that I was there. All the rest 

of the aid money, comprising 85% of all aid was spent in develop 
ing either public enterprise or consumer cooperatives. (Continued 
page 9, Packard memo.) 

Well, I was shocked by this report. Mr. Corfitzen went to 
Mr. Griswold and presented the case to him. He promised that 
nothing would be done until there was a hearing so that both sides 
could be presented. But I found that two days later the Industry 
Division had sent their committee of three men to Paris with this 
report. And they came back two weeks later with the complete ap 
proval of the Paris office of their plan for having EBASCO take 
over the power. 

John Nuveen, New Chief of the Mission 

Then there was a change in the Mission. EGA was created and 
Mr. John Nuveen came to Greece as the new Chief of the Mission. 
He was a Republican, a banker from Chicago. And I felt quite dis 
heartened because I was quite sure that I would not get too favor 
able a hearing. But I found that his bank specialized in muni 
cipal utilities and he was, therefore, completely familiar with 
the whole problem of public ownership. So I saw him and explained 
the situation. I said I thought we should have a hearing. And 
he said of course we should. He said he would arrange the hearing 
for the next day. Well, I presented the public power program 
giving an outline of what the Greek government had already done 


Packard: in outlining plans for a series of hydroelectric projects to be 
tied together with a common carrier transmission line. The 
Industry Division presented the private power angle. Well Mr. 
Nuveen made the decision right there and said that he thought 
that power in Greece should be publicly owned because of the con 
ditions in the country. And he appointed me as chairman of the 
power committee. No men from the Industry Division were put on 
the committee. 

Well, from then on I worked with Mr. Pezopoulos, the head of 
the Electrical Engineering Department of the University of Athens, 
in preparing a new report the first official report from ECA 
to the Paris office. It is entitled Water and Power Development; 
July 1, 1948-June 30, 1949. The statements concerning the policy 
of public versus private ownership was stated as follows: (page 8) 

The need for public ownership; The need for power income 
makes public ownership of hydroelectric plants a necessary 
clement of any financially sound river development program... 
Under private ownership this income would remain in private 
hands and the unmet costs of irrigation and flood control 
would be added to the general tax burden. 

Within a few days after this report reached the Paris office 
the engineer in charge of power policies came to Athens and wanted 
to know who it was that wanted public power. I said that the 
people of Greece wanted it. His reply was, "What have they got to 
say about iti Who s putting up the money?" That statement re 
flects the attitude of the officers in the Paris office. (From 
Packard memo of July 5, 1949.) 

At tlinl time It seemed that Dewey would be elected PreHJdi-nt 
and I was quite afraid that we would be defeated. So when Walter 
Sissler, former vice-president of Edison Electric of Detroit, who 


Packard: had been appointed as head of the Power Division of the ECA in 
Washington, came to Greece with the man from the Paris office, 
whose name I do not recall, I was willing to compromise by saying 
it would be all right for EBASCO to make the necessary study if 
it was understood that when the studies were completed no policy 
decision would be made until there was a complete evaluation of 
the public vs. private power issue. That was agreed to. 

And about three weeks later two men from EBASCO showed up. 
One was one of their old-time engineers, very familiar with power. 
The other was a Greek-American who was president of the American 
Hellenic Hydroelectric and Metallurgical Corporation of New York, 
who held the concession for power on the Acheloos River, the most 
promising hydroelectric potential in the country. He had re 
ceived this concession during the dictatorship of Metaxas and was 
quite certain that he could maintain his ownership rights. I 
went right to Mr. Nuveen that afternoon and explained that this 
man was here representing EBASCO. He was fired that night. A 
very hot letter was sent off both to Washington and to EBASCO, 
saying that an arrangement like that where the American Mission 
was employing the president of a company that held the concession 
on the river to advise the Mission as to what it should do with 
the concession was impossible. 

Baum: When was this? 

Packard: That was in the fall of 1948. 

Baum: And I don t understand why there were so many Republicans in 
the Mission. 


Packard: They were technical men. 

Baum: Yes. But were they hired just as technical men? 

Packard: Well, I don t know. In the case of Mr. Nuveen, he happened to 
be very liberal. 

Finally, the Greek government did cancel the concession. 
And they organized the Public Power Corporation, a Greek organ 
ization similar to the TVA. 

A Defeat for Public Power 

During this time APECO (Athens-Piraeus Electric Company) 
wanted to get more generating power. And they wanted a loan from 
the Mission to finance the construction of a new block of steam 
power to add to the power they already had in Athens and Piraeus. 
I felt that this power should be developed by the Greek government 
as part of the program -- that the Mission should finance this 
through the newly organized public corporation. They were anxious 
to do this. I talked it over with Mr. Nuveen, who believed as I 
did, but he was going to Washington and left the matter in the 
hands of Mr. Grady. 

Baum: Well now, did Mr. Grady favor public power or private power? 

Packard: In Mr. Nuveen s absence Mr. Grady had to make the decision re 
garding APECO. He called a hearing and the Industry Division was 
represented by a number of men. And I presented the case for 
public ownership of this power, as Chairman of the Power Committee, 
assuming that public ownership would come ultimately and that it 


Packard: should start now. The Greeks said that they could supply the 

power to APECO all right. But at this hearing Mr. Grady favored 
APECO so a loan was made to APECO to install this new block of 
steam power, using oil imported from the Middle East. And fol 
lowing this meeting I sent the following memorandum to Mr. Grady: 
February 2, 1949, "Contrary to Ken Iverson s statement yesterday, 
I am not the only one opposing the support of private power by 
EGA funds. ...There is no action, in my judgment, that could be 
taken which will adversely effect the battle for democracy more 
directly than the support of private power interests before EGA 
has had an opportunity to study all of the facts involved." 

Another difficulty arose because of the opposition of some 
of the people employed in the Mission. In a memorandum that I 
sent to Mr. K. Iverson, Deputy for Operations, on February 10, 
1949 I said this: "I wish to call your attention to four incidents 
which affect the position which you have asked me to take regarding 
discussions of public vs. private ownership power in Greece. ... 
They are economic and social issues, not engineering issues, and 
they should be faced before the combination of private interests 
now operating in Greece have an opportunity to create circumstances 
which favor private power." (pp. 1-2) 

Following this I talked with Alan Strachan about the issue and 
he prepared a statement on behalf of the Labor and Manpower Division 
which reads as follows: Labor and Manpower Division, EGA, Greece 
Proposal for Hydroelectric Power Policy: "With the completion of 
the preliminary survey of the power potentials of Greece as re- 


Packard: "ported by EBASCO... The Labor and Manpower Division urges the 
Mission to Greece to resist any proposal for what would be our 
greatest undoing, and go on record for retaining Greece for the 
Greeks, and against exploitation from within and from without." 
(Pages L- O 

Return to Washington for a Security Hearing, 1949 
Failure to Get a Security Clearance 

One morning, some weeks later, I was called by Mr. Nuveen 
on the phone and asked to see him. And when I went into his of 
fice I could see that he was embarrassed. He read me a telegram 
from Washington from the head of EGA there demanding my immediate 
dismissal on the grounds of an F.B.I, investigation. He said, "I 
can t show you this F.B.I, report, but I ll read some of it to 
you and then you give me your answers." And the first question 
was, "Are you a member of the Labor School in San Francisco?" 
And I said, "No, I wasn t, but I had sponsored it." And he said, 
"Sponsoring is just as bad. That makes it impossible to be em 
ployed by the EGA because the EGA law says, "no member of any sub 
versive organization listed by the Attorney General could be em 
ployed by EGA. " 

Another charge was that I as president of the Berkeley Demo 
cratic Glub, had spoken on a platform with two known Communists. 
I didn t know who they were but I presumed they were C.I.O. men 
who were then rather leftist. Then I was also charged with at 
tending a water meeting in Fresno where there were three known 
Communists in the audience. I again assumed that they were C.I.O. 


Packard: men. And I said, "I didn t know whether they were Communists or 

So I told Mr. Nuvecn that I was not ashamed of anything I had 
done. I simply wanted everyone to know why I was going because it 
would be quite embarrassing to go home without anybody knowing why. 
He suggested that they have a testimonial dinner for me at the 
Gran Bretagne Hotel, which they did. Mr. Nuveen presided. They 
gave me a briefcase and agreed to name a school after me in 
Macedonia. And it was quite an emotional meeting. It was really 
a wonderful affair from my standpoint. Nobody in the Mission 
avoided us. In fact they all went out of their way to ask us to 
dinner and to put on parties. 

Side Trip to Israel 

I had been scheduled to go to Egypt to attend an irrigation 
conference. I couldn t go, but I was able to get a free ride on 
a U.N. plane to Israel. So I spent a week in Israel during the 
time I was waiting to go home. 

I went immediately to the American Embassy in Tel Aviv and 
introduced myself. They were rather embarrassed because the 
situation was still very serious. There was still shooting. And 
they wondered why I had come. But there was one man in the Embassy 
who had met me in Athens. And he invited me to have lunch with him 
that day. We were walking along the Mediterranean coast at a very 
beautiful spot when he asked me, "Would you be willing to come to 
Israel as agricultural attache of the embassy?" I had to explain 


Packard: very embarrassingly that I was on my way home. (Laughter) I 
was a "subversive". And so that ended that. But the Israeli 
government did assign a car and driver to me. And the driver 
happened to be a former professor of agriculture at Davis. 
While waiting for him T took a bus ride to Jerusalem which took 
me on tho narrow strip that was being shot at at the time. There- 
were probably forty trucks and cars that had been blown up along 
the highway on the way to Jerusalem. 

Baum: It sounds like you re always driving along dangerous roads. (Laughter) 

Packard: I saw as much of Jerusalem as I could in a very short time. Then 
when I got back to Tel Aviv this man with the car was waiting 
for me. We drove south to the Negev Desert. And there we came 
to a little cooperative town where each individual owned his own 
house and lot, but they owned a cooperative dairy and so on. 
The spirit of the settlement was wonderful. I had lunch that day 
with an old couple whose two teen-age sons had been killed in the 
trench that connected their yard with all the yards in the village. 

Baum: Killed by Arabs? 

Packard: Yes. That was the town where they had stopped the northern 

march of the Egyptian army when they attacked Israel. I started 
to express sympathy to the mother and she stopped me right away 
and said, "Don t say anything. Those boys died for Israel." 
The expression of Cooling was just wonderful. You just couldn t 
have a more wonderful statement. 

Well, we got just to the edge of the Negev Desert and came 
back and then drove north from Tel Aviv up the coast and then 


Packard: across the mountains to the Plains of Judea. We stayed that 

night in a kibbutz where we had dinner and breakfast. We went 
over the land and buildings and met many people. I think there 
were six people there from the University of California. And we 
got a very good idea of the organization of a kibbutz and how it 
was handled. They all ate in a common dining room. Each family 
was assigned a room. And the children, even the very young babies, 
wore taken to a nursery school. The parents came and took the 
children homo after work. They had excellent care, trained 
nurses, and so on. At breakfast time on the door was a list of 
assignments. So each person went to the list and saw what work 
he was assigned to that day. One of the men from the University 
of California, an engineer, was assigned that day to garbage 

Baum: Were these University of California people living there? 

Packard: Yes. 

Baum: Oh, they had left. They had emigrated. 

Packard: Yes. They were living there. They were part of the kibbutz. I 
had a discussion that evening with some of them and presented jay 
idea that that sort of thing was behaviorally disruptive 
where they are all working together to produce a common product 
with no way of dividing the claims on the supply automatically. 
They could see my point, but they were still thinking that they 
might work it out anyway. The spirit of the kibbutz was fine. 
They had a dairy, a fruit orchard, and gardens. So they were 


Packard: producing everything they wanted on the kibbutz. The idea 
seemed to fit in very well with the situation in Israel at 
that time because people were coming in without anything at 
all. And they could go to these kibbutzim and have a place to 
sleep and some food to eat right away, and start to earn their 
living without any hesitation at all. So it was a very success 
ful thing from that standpoint. 

Baum: You didn t think this would be successful over a long time though. 

Packard: Well I thought at the time it was a very successful operation, 
but I did not think it would last too long because I thought 
that behavioral relationships might prove unworkable. I haven t 
returned to Israel since but I have read reports that indicate 
that the kibbutzim are on the way out. The emergency which 
brought them into being is passing. 

Baum: I guess another thing that people are always interested in is how 
you think the family relationship is because of the child-rearing 

Packard: Well, the impression I had was not too favorable. The parents 
would be living in a room and the children would be off at the 
nursery. In some ways it was very excellent. You couldn t ob 
ject to what they were doing in the nursery. The children were 
learning to get along with other children. They were taken care 
of beautifully. From that standpoint it was quite ideal. 

The next morning we drove west across the Plains of Judea 
and came to a sign by the road marked sea level. Well we looked 


Packard: from there on down to the Sea of Galilee which was about six 

hundred feet down a steep slope and from there the Jordan River 
ran on down south. I understand that the Jordan Valley was part 
of the same formation as the Rift in Kenya, Africa. I found that 
a Berkeley man whom I knew quite well had worked out a plan where 
they could bring water through the hills bordering the Mediter 
ranean and form a power plant, dropping the water down six hundred 
feet to the Jordan River, and create a large amount of hydro 
electric power. The plan was to take the water out of the Jordan 
for irrigation of land that needed irrigation very badly, and 
then turn this salty water into the Jordan channel and carry it 
down to the Dead Sea where it would keep that sea at a proper 

Baum: Was that Mr. Lowdermilk? 

Packard: Yes. 

Baum: I once heard him give a speech on that plan and it just sounded 

Packard: Yes. And when you look down into the Jordan Valley, it just seems 
the most obvious thing in the world. Anyway, we went down to see 
the Sea of Galilee and to the Jordan River. We visited another 
kibbutz in the upper area of the Jordan Valley. This was quite a 
prosperous area where they had citrus fruits and bananas. It was 
one of the older kibbutzim. Then we came back and went over to 

* Dr. Walter Lowdermilk is being interviewed by ROHO, Spring 1968. 


Packard: Haifa, which was the end of an oil pipeline coming in from the 
oil fields in the East. Anyway, the big refinery was there and 
the enemies of Israel had blown up the pipeline and the refinery 
was not operating. 

I found there, as I found over other parts of Israel, that 
some of the houses that had belonged to the Arabs had been blown 
up with dynamite from the inside. I talked to the taxi man who 
said that the Israeli government had blown them up because they 
wanted to have the Arabs discouraged when they came back so they 
wouldn t want to return to their old property. Then I went to 
Tel Aviv and took a plane back to Athens. My general reaction 
was that I was very much impressed by what the Israeli government 
was doing -- terrifically impressed. I was very impressed by the 
spirit of the people that I met. But I had a certain feeling of 
sympathy for the Arabs. 

I returned to Athens, but before leaving for Washington in 
March, 1949, I submitted a memorandum to Paul Jenkins who was 
then Chief of the Food and Agricultural Division of the Mission. 
I, at the time, did not expect to return to Greece. And I said in 
the beginning, "The following remarks are in a sense my final re 
port as a member of the Power Committee of EGA." (This memo is on 

On our way home we took a plane to Rome and then to Zurich, 
where we stopped for a couple of days to take a bus ride through 
Switzerland. We went to Geneva and then flew from there to Paris. 


Packard: We spent several days in Paris, thinking this might be the last 
chance we might have to see Paris. We then went to London and 
did the same thing there. And, interestingly enough, we were in 
London shortly after the street lights were turned on for the 
first time, after the years of war "blackouts". There was one 
family that had come in from the country. The children had never 
seen London lighted before. It had always been dark all through 
World War II. They had an official ceremony turning on the lights. 

Packard Cleared and Sent Back to Greece 

Then we flew to New York, where Frankie Adams and Emmy Lou 
were there to meet us. They were all excited about the report 
that I had been fired. And they both were rather inclined to 
want me to exploit it. But I decided not to do that. I went to 
Washington and I reported first to Abe Fortas. I explained my 
situation and I wanted to know if he would defend me. And he said 
he would. He d be very glad to defend me. And I asked him how 
much it would cost. And he said, "It will cost you nothing at 
all." So I said, "On that basis, you re hired." (Laughter) He 
told me to stay away from ECA, not to report there until he told 
me to. So, meanwhile he went over to talk to the attorneys for 
ECA and he brought up the point that the law said nothing about 
sponsoring an organization on the Attorney General s list. There 
fore from a technical standpoint I was not guilty under the law. 
I was not a member of the Labor School. I had only sponsored it. 
And there was nothing in the law that would convict me. So the 
ECA attorney took that as a technical answer to a technical charge. 


Packard: And then they arranged for a hearing. The hearing was to be held 
as soon as they could get a group together. 

Meanwhile, on the boat coming home I had realized that I was 
getting glaucoma in the eye that had been operated on recently for 
cataract. So I had a glaucoma operation in Washington while I was 
waiting for the hearings. I went around a good deal of the time 
with one eye bandaged. So I spent my time in getting as much in 
formation as I could from the Federal Power Commission, the Bureau 
of Reclamation, and the TVA on the arguments supporting public 
power. As a result, when I returned to Greece I was pretty well 
prepared to fight for the creation of a public power corporation 
of the TVA type. I also wrote, wired and phoned many of my 
friends asking for character references. These are the letters 
that Abe Fortas received when he was conducting my defense in 
Washington. Letters came from the following individuals: H.R. 
Wellman, Carl C. Taylor, Richard R. Perkins, Amos Buckley, Monroe 
E. Deutsch, Henry E. Erdman, Murray R. Benedict, Stuart Chase, 
Raymond C. Smith, Oscar L. Chapman, and Helen Gahagan Douglas. 
A formal hearing was held by a specially appointed commission to 
hear my case. The Undersecretaries of Agriculture, Commerce, and 
Interior; M.L. Wilson, Thomas Blaisdell, and Oscar Chapman, testi 
fied in my defense and I was cleared by unanimous vote. Mr. Nuveen 
was in Washington at that time and asked for my reappointment. My 
way could be paid on the theory that I was in Washington on a con 
ference. But they couldn t send Emma back because there s no 


Packard: authority in law to send her back under the circumstances. So 
by rehiring me on a completely new contract they could send us 
both back. So we both went back by plane. 

Baum: I hope they paid your way back when you came back from Greece to 
Washington. (Laughter) 

Packard: They paid all that. They had forgotten all about the agreement 
I d signed. So everything was paid, except our living expenses 
at the hotel. Part of the time we stayed with friends in 

We were supposed to land at the Athens airport at 2:00 in 
the morning. But we were two hours late. But when we got there, 
there were eleven Greeks and Americans there to meet us with big 
bouquets of flowers. Well, it was the most emotional event I 
ever encountered. They took us up to the King George Hotel where 
they had a long table where all our friends could join us for 
breakfast and welcome us home. 

When we left Athens, Greeks and Americans came down to the 
airport to see us off. Mrs. Grady, the wife of the ambassador was 
there, and she said that she had also sponsored the Labor School 
and she knew that Bob Sproul had sponsored the same thing. 

Baum: Ambassadors don t have to pass security checks like EGA employees? 

Packard: They do. I suppose they re well combed over before they pick them 
at all. 

Oh yes, the Greek engineers came to the airport and gave us 


Packard: various silver things. I have an engraved silver tray and Emma 
has a bracelet from the Greeks, who were very much concerned that 
the American government would send me home. So when I came back 
it was a great thing for the Greeks to know that I could go to 
Washington, have a hearing, and comr> back. It made quite an im 
pression on them. 

Baum: Well I m glad it ended with a favorable impression. It sounds 
rather poor to begin with. 

Packard: Yes. It s the only favorable hearing I ve ever heard of. I guess 
you don t hear of them if they re favorable. It s only the scandal 
that you hear of. 

I had brought over all of our electrical equipment such as a 
toaster and a hot plate from home, because you couldn t get any 
thing like that in Greece, at the time. And I had to sell all 
those things when we left Greece. So it meant restocking again 
in Washington and shipping these all back at government expense 
again. (Laughter) 

Development of Public Power Corporation 

Less than a year later, Mr. Nuveen had been sent to Belgium 
and a new man had been sent in, Paul Porter. Well, Mr. Porter, in 
contrast to Mr. Nuveen, had been a member of the executive com 
mittee of the Socialist Party in the United States. My brother 
was a member of the same executive committee. So, instead of 
having a Republican banker in charge we had a former socialist. 


Packard: I had never met him before but we became great friends. And 

when he was leaving, after he had been there for about a year, 
he called a meeting of all the- employees of the Mission, Greek 
and American, which nearly filled one of the theaters in Athens. 
And he said, "I m going to do something that I ve never done be 
fore. I don t think it s a good thing policywise generally, but 
in this case I think it s justified. I m going to name four 
people that I think have done outstanding work." Well, he named 
me as the first of the four. And we were known from then on as 
the "Big Four". But that wasn t a good policy. 

Baum: Yes. 

Packard: But it was rather a complete vindication of me. I was terrifically 
pleased to get that after having been sent home the only one 
that was sent home and got back. There were others who were 
sent home, but I was the only one that got back, which makes 
quite a difference. * 

I consider what I did in developing the Public Power Corpora 
tion to be my greatest contribution to the Greek economy. On re 
turning to Greece I prepared a brief on the power issue based upon 
the information I had been able to get in Washington. I had this 
brief mimeographed in English and translated into Greek and then 
mimeographed in Greek. I then distributed the copies as quickly 
as possible without the Industry Division knowing that I d done it. 
And when the Industry Division saw the report, they became quite 
concerned and wanted to have the report withdrawn. But it couldn t 

* Mr. Packard s philosophy is clearly expressed in "How to Win With 
Foreign Aid", The Nation. April 8, 1961, pp. 302-304. 


Packard: be withdrawn because it was already pretty widely distributed. 
It was a convincing document and had quite a bit to do with the 
final decision to create- the Public Power Commission on the TVA 
pattern, especially because I was able to get the brief into the 
hands of Averell Harriman, then acting as roving ambassador. I 
accomplished this through Pat Frayne, a San Francisco labor leader 
who was traveling with Mr. Harriman, and whom I had met at the 
Paris office of EGA on my way to Washington after my dismissal. 
I have no way of proving it, but I think that it was Mr. Harriman s 
influence in Washington which led to the adoption of the public 
power policy. 

As a precautionary measure, a measure which I favored, the 
Mission employed Walton Seymour, an experienced electrical engineer 
and strong supporter of public power, to work with EBASCO, as a 
direct employee of the Mission. In the end, a very efficient 
public power network, where hydroelectric power was firmed up by 
a steam plant fueled by processed lignite, was established. The 
public power authority finally purchased the Athens -Piraeus Company 
and bought every other system. It s the most successful corpora 
tion they have in Greece. Its bonds sell at a higher figure than 
any other bonds on the market. So that the efforts we made in 
that paid off. 

Baum: It sounds like you were just about beaten though. 

Packard: Well, I was. I was up against an awful lot of opposition. 

Baum: Were there any other forces supporting your view? 


Packard: Oh yes, the Greeks were. 

Baum: Were they effectively working for it? 

Packard: Oh yes. They were as effective as they could be. Professor G.N. 
Pczopoulos was the head of the Electrical Engineering Division of 
the University of Athens. I worked with him during the entire 
time. And he was the man who had developed the original report 
under the Greek government and was the principal technician in 
the Greek government. And he became president of the new corpora 
tion and remained there until 1958. 

Baum: How could the Greeks put pressure on? 

Packard: They would go to their politicians and through their ministries 
support the Greek interests. It wasn t unanimous in the Greek 
government, but it was the dominant force at that time. Every 
thing else railroads, telephone lines, hospitals, schools, etc. 
were public, so they were used to the idea. 

Although I consider what I did in developing the Public Power 
Corporation to be my greatest contribution to the Greek economy, 
most of what I did, especially after the first year, concerned 
flood control, drainage and irrigation. We had the advantage of 
having a very competent report from the Food and Agricultural 
Organization of the United Nations as a guide. It said, in part, 
the people of Greece are: 

poor because they have little land per family compared 
with most other countries, and because they generally 
produce relatively little per acre on the land they have. 
... Increase of agricultural productivity in Greece must 
therefore look forward to both increasing the land avail 
able, and raising the output per acre. (FAO Report, p. 2.) 

Packard: So that was the situation we faced when we got there and that was 



Packard: tht program that we had to meet. I ll read from my last report before 

I left Greece: Can Greece Feed, Clothe and House its Growing Population? 

"In order to increase the land available and raise the output 
i . 

per aero and por man, tho FOA Commission recommended a program 


j which would provide for:- 


The expansion of agricultural aroas through flood control, 
drainage and irrigation, with related hydroelectric developments, 
reforestation and controllod grazing; the intensification of 
production through n gradual arid partial shift in suitable 
areas from oxtonsive to intensive crops, including fruits, 
vegetables and expansion in livestock and livestock products, 
and improvement in the quality of agricultural products for 
domestic consumption and for export; reduction of labor re 
quirements and of the numbor of workers in apiculture in non- 
intensive areas through gradual extension of modcn machinery 
and modern cultural methods; a great increase in output per 
acre and per man through inprovomont in the variety of seeds 
and the quality of livestock; improved cultural practices, 
improved and more extensive use of fertilizers and general 
modernization of agricultural practices; and groat improve 
ments in the fisheries output, from the use of better gear, 
control of fishing in the interest of maximum production and 
bettor marketing. Appropriate research, extension, and 
educational facilities to help bring about these changes, and 
financial aid through the Agricultural Dank and the public 
works agencies of Greece, are recommended elsewhere. The 
great increase in commercial agriculture and in exports would 
in turn pay for increased imports of equipment, tools, grains, 
metals and other goods arid services needed by Greece to help 
raise standards of both production and consumption. 1 

b) The Aooopplishnonts 

With the knowledge of conditions gained from the FAO Report, 
the Greek 1 inistry of Agriculture, in cooperation with the Food 
and Agriculture Division of tho American Mission for Aid to 
Greece, created July 1, 19U7* began an intensive drive toward 
the goals sot. Tho results have been greater than anticipated. 
Total annual pre-war production of selected crops, representing 
8U percent of the total calorie intake, was doubled by December 30,1953. 


"The percentage increases by crops range from 1U3.8 percent for 
pulses to 1,600 percent for rice. The increase of 102.5 percent 
of whiat, 382. percent for vegetables and 305.2 percent for 
potatoes are particularly significant because they alone account 
for 60,0 percent of the total calorio intake. Livestock and 
livestock products lagged largo ly because of the civil war which 
resulted in a serious doclino in the livestock population of tho 
mountain aroas. The detailed figures showing the results of increased 
production of selected crops aru presented in Table 1. 

T A B L E 1 

Comparison butwoon Prewar production and production in 
1953-5U for selected items which together account for 
81*. 5 percent of the total calorie intake of the Greek 
people in 1953 -5U. 








increase in 




in 1,000, 


in 1953-5U 






Other co reals 




































19 , 


, 55.6 


Other fruit 





Veg, oils 











"This marked record of increase in production was directly 
reflected in a lowered need for food imports financed by aid 
funds. This decrease has boon progressive as shown by the 
following figuros:- 

Value in Uillion Dollars Equivalent 

Yoar Imports of Agricultural products 

primarily" for hunan consumption * , 


19U8-U9 167.0 Mill fc 

. 19U9-50 122.0 " " 

1950-51 112.2 " " 

1951-52 107.2 " " 

1952-53 59.0 " " 

1953 -5U U0.2 - 

Moreover, $22,070,000 or 5U percent of the ^0,200,000 
value of imports for 1953-5U consists of sugar, coffee, dried 
fish, cocoa beans, tea and spices, none of which are produced 
in Greece, plus a stock piling of vegetable oils which is not 
a recurring item. Tho >not saving of import expenditures in 
I553-5U, as compared to. 19)|8-h9, amounted to ft 126,765,00o t 

The increase in production recorded in Table 1 resulted 


from (1) an increase in the area under cultivation and (2) an 
increase in the yield pur atremma, It should be emphaeized here 
that resources development is only one phase of the total agri 
cultural production program. The other phase includes the., 
improvement in cultural practices, batter lanfl FT5.;.aratica 1 

* From Table Page XI of "r-raeoe Import Data Book", Fiscal Year 
1953-5U, vol I, FP Div. Am,. Mission. 


, i improvod irrigation methods, th(j development and use of bettor 


Mc dj more and better use of fertilizers, improved livestock, 

bettor methods of control of weeds, insects and disease and such 
other items as food preservation and preparation and problems 
relating to land tenure, size of holding and production pur 
person working on the land. /The so latter items are the 
responsibilities of Experiment Stations and the Extension Service. 
The two broad branches of tho agricultural program - resources 
development, on tho one hand and the proper ug of resources 
on. the othor -, go hand in hnnd. Tho Technical Service in charge 
of resources development and tho Experiment Stations and Extension 
Service in charge of the development of new techniques of 
production and thnir adoption by farmers, are complimentary 
responsibilities with a gradually increasing emphasis on the 
latter, as the opportunities for increasing land resources declines 
because of the limited total area of arable land. This particular 
report covers only _ the first of these two phases or branches 
of the total program. 

Tho increase in the area under cultivation had an appreciable 
effect upon total production. In 1953-5U there were 3,557,000 
more strammas cultivated with selected principal crops than in 
1935-38 - an increase of 18,2 percent. The detailed figurea 
are presented in Table 2, " (Pages 3-6) 


Rebuilding War-Damaged Structures 

Packard: The work that had to be done at first was related almost wholly 
to the rehabilitation of projects that had been constructed in 
former years, prior to the war. Many structures had been damaged 
or blown up by the Germans. Roads all over Greece were in terrible 
condition. Six hundred bridges had been blown up. And it was very 
difficult to get around at all. So a great deal of the work in the 
beginning was rehabilitation, as it was in the other phases of the 
Greek aid program. The harbor in Piraeus was full of sunken ships 
that had to be removed before you could do anything else. The main 
job of reclamation rehabilitation was in Salonika where a very large 
canal, perhaps seventy-five feet across the bottom, had been con 
structed after the First World War with help from the Near East Re 
lief. It was for the purpose of reclaiming the central portion of the 
Salonika Plains by intercepting the runoff from the north slope of 
Mount Olympus which had run into the Salonika Plains, creating a big 
lake. This artificial channel carried the water down to the Aliakmon 
River and thence on into the sea. The banks of this channel were weak 
ened and some of the structures were gone, while the canal was clogged 
with mud. 

This rehabilitation work was done by the Ministry of Public 
Works of Greece. A large floating dredge was used to clear mud from 
the channel which proved to be a continuing job. An extensive 
drainage system, started by the Near East Foundation following the 
First World War to reclaim the swamp area occupying the central 


Packard: portion of the Salonika Plains was enlarged and necessary structure 
installed. This was a difficult task because the floor of the 
plains was very little above sea level. 

Another large reclamation job was the rehabilitation and en 
largement of a drainage system in Thrace started with the aid of 
the Near East Foundation to reclaim a large swamp bordering the 
and fiit city of Plilltppl. Associated with this was the reconstruc 
tion of a dam on the Strymon River and the rehabilitation and en 
largement of an irrigation system in the Serres plain. 

A third large reclamation job involved the rehabilitation of 
the levees of an extensive flood control project in Thessaly. In 
Arta, in the Epirus area of Greece, the Boot Company of England 
had been hired by the Near East Relief to develop drainage, irri 
gation and flood control works for that potentially productive 
delta area. The American Mission financed the Boot Company in car 
rying this work on for the rest of the time that I was there. This 
job, like all other large projects, was supervised by the Ministry 
of Public Works. 

Baum: What company was that? 

Packard: B-O-O-T. 

Baum: Is that an engineering company? 

Packard: Yes. It was a British concern. 


Relationship between the Mission and the Greek Government 

Baum: What was the relationship between the Mission and the Ministry of 
Public Works? 

Pncknrd: At first there- was considerable confusion because the administration 
of aid money was divided both within the Mission and the Creek gov 
ernment. The Ministry of Public Works was responsible for the larger 
proiects involving the construction of levees, the building of dams, 
and the excavation of large canals. The Ministry of Agriculture was 
responsible for the construction of some projects and often for the 
excavation of the distributing system of large irrigation projects 
and feeder ditches in drainage projects. This led to great con 
fusion and rivalry between the two ministries. Within the Mission, 
the Construction Division was responsible for the work of the 
Ministry of Public Works, while the Division of Agriculture was re 
sponsible for the work of the Ministry of Agriculture. This was 
remedied, so far as the Mission was concerned, a year or so after 
my arrival by combining all administrative responsibility for land 
reclamation work in the Agricultural Division. I became responsible 
for the administration of American aid to both ministries. Charles 
Harris, formerly with the Bureau of Reclamation served as irrigation 
engineer on my staff. Dr. Frixos Letsas, an extremely efficient and 
hard working Greek engineer who had been trained in Germany, was my 
chief assistant. An incident in Salonika illustrated the need for 
coordination in the reclamation field. Two Greek organizations, 


Packard: with headquarters on the same floor in an office building in 

Salonika were responsible for the work of the two ministries in 
northeastern Greece. For some months I had been working with Mr. 
Orestis Christides, head of YPEM, the organization of the Ministry 
of Agriculture. On my first visit to Salonika following my ap 
pointment as head of a unified reclamation program within the Mis 
sion T encountered a jurisdictional dispute as to which ministry 
was responsible- for certain work on the Salonika Plains. I said to 
Christides, "Let s go down the hall and talk the issue out with the 
YPEM representative of the Ministry of Public Works." Christides 
said he couldn t do that because all contact between the two min 
istries had to take place in Athens. He said he would write a letter 
to the Ministry of Agriculture in Athens explaining the situation 
but could do nothing without authority. However I insisted on taking 
him down the hall to the office of the representative of the Ministry 
of Public Works where the issue was settled amicably. 

One of my problems was to prevent unnecessary duplication of 
equipment and facilities as between the two ministries. If one se 
cured additional facilities the other immediately wanted to duplicate 
them. This rivalry created quite a problem. (Laughter) 

Baum: That sounds like a problem you d met before. 

Packard: Yes, it was a constant problem. 

The Mechanical Cultivation Service 

Baum: How was the work done outside of the areas under the supervision of 
the two Greek organizations you called EPAM and YPEM? 


Packard: The Ministry of Public Works in Athens administered the work under 
its iurisdiction while most of the land reclamation work of the 
Ministry of Agriculture was administered by the Mechanical Culti 
vation Service (MSC), an organization within the Ministry but ad 
ministered by John Paleologue, a very dedicated and efficient pub 
lic servant. The MSC was organized after the First World War 
through the assistance of the Near East Foundation. The Service 
was badly disorganized by the effects of World War II. Much of 
the equipment had been stolen or destroyed. But; the organization 
itself seemed to be sound. The Land Reclamation Division of the 
Mission consequently did much to put the organization back on its 
feet. We financed the building of five very well equipped tractor 
stations with sub-stations where needed to service the equipment. 
Carpenter shops, lathes, and forges were a part of each shop. A 
large number of war damaged tractors, trucks and other equipment 
was turned over to the Mechanical Cultivation Service for repair 
and rehabilitation. As I recall it the MSC had about 600 cater 
pillar type tractors in all. This equipment plus 150 new Fiat 
tractors from Italy and a large number (125) of new, large and 
small, dragline, ditching machines and a number of flat top trucks 
needed to transport the heavy equipment from one job to another 
were supplied through Marshall Plan aid. 

Batim: Why did Italy supply tractors? Did it represent reparations 

Packard: Yes, the tractors were part of the reparations. 


Baum: Was this equipment available for use by farmers? 

Packard: No. Most of the equipment was for construction beyond the range 

of individual farmers. When farmers needed tractors for plowing or 
land levelling the work was done by experienced MSC men paid for by 
the landowner. In order to enable the peasants to do some of their 
own land preparation for irrigation, I had a USDA bulletin with 
drawings of homemade ditches and land levelling devices, translated 
into Greek and distributed through the MSC which made a number of 
representative samples in its shops to demonstrate their use. 

Baum: It sounds like there were a lot of trained men in Greece. 

Packard: Not at the beginning. But a well trained staff was soon developed 
through the vigorous and efficient leadership of John Paleologue 
and his lieutenants. The capacity of young Greeks to learn was 
rather dramatically demonstrated one day on a project in the lower 
Acheloos delta. I was taking the Comptroller of the Mission and 
his wife on an inspection tour to get him in touch with the actual 
work in the field. The dirt roads over the projects were too rough 
and muddy to permit the use of a car so the MSC engineers hooked a 
heavy hay rack equipped with railing so that you couldn t fall off 
onto a caterpillar tractor driven expertly by a 17-year-old village 
boy. It was the roughest inspection trip I was ever on, but it 
served its purpose. (Laughter) The Comptroller was impressed by 
what was being done and I got the money I needed. 

Another experience which rather astonished some top level ad 
ministrators and their wives occurred in the delta of the Nestos 


Packard: River in Thrace. The delta was a rough sandy area covered with 

brush and trees (cottonwood providing a home for a number of timber 
wolves). The MSC was clearing land for cultivation by uprooting 
both the brush and the trees no matter how large. The wood was then 
sawed up into usable lengths and sold to villagers for nominal sums. 
The work was rnthc-r spectacular and gained the immediate support of 
my guests, whom 1 wanted to influence. 

Because so much of the area of Greece is a porous limestone 
foundation, springs are very common. I was surprised, therefore, 
to find so many springs where no use was being made of the water. 
Utilizing these springs became a primary responsibility of the 
Ministry of Agriculture. This first project I visited in Greece was 
one of this kind. The Mechanical Cultivation Service was excavating 
a ditch to reclaim an area of potentially rich land that had always 
been a swamp, fed by a nearby spring. Later on, the water was car 
ried down to a delta of the river for the irrigation of rice, thus 
combining drainage with irrigation. Another interesting dual-purpose 
project was near Drama in Thrace. Here a sizable spring was flowing 
out of a limestone cave. In this case YPEM constructed a small dam 
across the stream and diverted the water to irrigation systems on 
both sides of the stream. 

Baum: That sounds like an obvious thing to do. Why was it not done before? 

Packard: I am sure I don t know. 

Some months later YPEM carried out another project which ap 
peared to be associated with this same spring. Limestone caves at 


Packard: the lower end of a valley into which two stream flows were being 
clogged so badly that water tended to back up and form a lake 
during the rainy season. It was presumed that the drainage from 
this valley provided the main source of water for the spring, 
1,000 or more feet below and some miles away. At any rate a small 
track used in mining operations was laid into the main cave and 
hundreds of tons of debris were carried out, including tree trunks 
and sand. Within a few yards of the entrance, the cave opened up 
into a large chamber which narrowed abruptly to an opening hardly 
wide enough for a man to crawl through. This led to another large 
chamber similar to the first. Thus again a drainage project was 
presumably associated with an irrigation project. 

River Development for Flood Control and Irrigation Master 
Plans by Foreign Companies 

Although the ministries of Public Works and Agriculture were 
able to carry on the relatively small projects that were carried on 
during the beginning of the work of the Mission, including the re 
habilitation of projects established prior to the war, there were 
other large projects that could not be carried on by the Greek gov 
ernment because they didn t have enough well trained technical men 
with experience. So, it was decided to have master plans made in 
various fields by employing foreign companies . 

Knappen-Tippetts Corporation of New York 

The Knappen, Tippetts, Abbott, McCarthy Engineering Corporation 
of New York was employed by the Creek government with Marshall Plan 


Packard: money. This company reported to both the Greek government and the 

Land Reclamation Division in the Mission and did a maior job in pre 
paring master plans for the- development of the major river basins in 
Greece, including the Megdova River Project, and projects in the Lower 
Acheloos area, the Xanthi-Komotini Plains, Sperchios River Basin, 
Peneos River Basin, Voha-Stymphalia Plains, Kalamas River Basin, Upper 
Messinia Plain. 

The Knappen-Tippetts organization sent in their best engineers 
in the reclamation field, employed a soil specialist from the 
University of Oregon, and then filled in their staff with quite a 
number of Greek engineers and technicians. So that one of the pur 
poses of having the Knappen-Tippetts Company there was to train young 
Greek engineers in this field. So that when the Knappen-Tippetts con 
tract was finished, Greece would have people that could go ahead and 
carry on without any further technical help from the U.S. 

Baum: Was this part of the American plan to use as many Greek technicians 
as possible? 

Packard: Yes. We had originally planned to use the Bureau of Reclamation to 
take over the responsibility for developing these master plans. But 
the Bureau was reluctant to do it because so many other countries 
under the Marshall Plan were demanding help from them that they had 
to neglect their work at home. It put too much of a burden on them. 

Baum: So most of this was done by this Knappen-Tippetts Company on a 
private contract. 

Packard: Yes. "And in addition they prepared final designs for the construe- 


Packard: "tion of diversion dams on the Axios and Aliaktnon rivers and made 
recommendations regarding the improvement of conditions on the 
Strymon River based upon a study of the river and the problem pre 
sented by it." (pp. 28-29 of June 7, 1954 report) 

They were then employed, as I left, to build or supervise the 
construction of three dams: one on the Acheloos, another on the 
Axios and another on the Aliakmon. None of these dams, however, 
were structures that I thought should be put in at that time because 
some basic soil and drainage problems were unsolved. They were 
ordered by Mr. Karamanlis without any consultation with the Mission 
at all. He had apparently rather resented my desire to have all of 
the reclamation work unified under the Ministry of Agriculture. So 
that when he became Prime Minister he took things into his own hands 
and ordered the construction of these dams. Years later, when I was 
talking with one of the Knappen-Tippetts men who visited us here in 
Berkeley, I learned that the dam on the Acheloos had never been used. 

There was one project, however, that they did design that I 
thought was unusually good. In the Agrinion Valley there were two 
rather large lakes that covered several hundred acres. They were 
fed by springs and there was a constant outflow of several hundred 
second feet going into the Acheloos River all year round. At the 
lower end of this drainage area several hundred acres were flooded 
and producing nothing but tules. And the farmers in the area were 
not able to use that land. When they irrigated the land above to 
grow rice, it raised the level of the water in the swamp and flooded 
out other land. The farmers in a little village down the river were 


Packard: damaged very materially by the rice program above. So the Knappen- 
Tippetts Company surveyed a line that would take water out of this 
channel, run through a tunnel in the hills to carry water down to the 
delta of the Acheloos River where there was another rice program. The 
project would develop enough hydroelectric energy to light the vil 
lages below and supply power for the drainage pumps, beside providing 
w;itc-r for tin- Irrigation of most of the area between the hill and the 
sea. I luivi- been told this project is now under construction. 

Raum: It sounds like a very ambitious plan. 

Packard: It was a logical way of meeting the conditions that existed. 

The Harza Engineering Company of Chicago 

The Harza Engineering Company of Chicago was given the responsi 
bility of preparing a master plan for the development of the Evros 
River which forms the boundary between Greece and Turkey. The problem 
was largely flood control which was made all but impossible by the 
fact that the main watershed was in Bulgaria. This project was ad 
ministered by a joint commission between Greece, Turkey, and the 
United States where I represented the United States. The group met 
alternately in Athens and Istanbul, which gave me a chance to con 
tact Turkish officials. 

An incident which illustrates a common weakness of Americans 
abroard occurred in Istanbul during a celebration over the return of 
the first veterans from the Korean War. Another American and I to 
gether with two Greek engineers had an opportunity to meet the 
President of Turkey who could not speak English. The result was that 


Packard: my American friend and I stood dumbly by while our Greek associate 
carried on a brisk conversation with the President in French. 

I found the Turkish representatives on the Commission to be 
very nice fellows personally but when they came to judging the 
rights of Turkey as against the rights of Greece, they were intran 
sigent. They just wouldn t give in on anything. It was almost im 
possible to get them to realize the most obvious facts. So it was 
rather difficult to work with them. 

Nnurn: Are Greeks able to work with each other or with other people or arc 
they tho same intransigent sort of people? 

Packard: It nil depends upon the circumstances. 

Baum: Well, could they work with each other, first of all? I suppose there 
were a lot of compromises required between Greeks and Greeks. 

Packard: Oh yes. I have already recorded a number of instances where Greeks 
were unable to work together. Difficulties often arose between the 
Mission and the Greek officials especially when the Greeks felt, 
rightly or wrongly, that their prerogatives were being ignored. An 
amusing incident occurred at one time which involved me. The Chief 
of the Mission announced at a staff meeting that he had not been 
able to contact the Minister of Coordination for two weeks and he 
didn t know how to proceed. It happened that I had an appointment 
with the minister that afternoon, made at his request. I was, there 
fore, able to present the issue which concerned the Mission without 

Baum: Was that true of government ministries, that you couldn t reach them 


Baum: through regular channels? 

Packard: No, ordinarily you could reach them rather easily. And I always 

had access to the Ministry of Agriculture and Public Works, as well. 

But this conflict of personalities was not confined to re 
lationships with the Greeks. A young soil scientist had been trans 
ferred to my department. On entering his office one day for a con 
ference, T found him sitting in his chair with his feet on his desk. 
Without moving he began to tell me off and a day or two later filed 
charges against me which required a hearing. The most serious charge 
was that I had wasted 600,000 drachma by permitting the Ministry of 
Public Works to proceed with an unsound flood control venture rather 
than following the advice of Harris, the irrigation engineer on my 
staff. When I pointed out that I had had the work stopped the day I 
took over responsibility for public works projects he said, "There 
is no record of such an order in the files". I said there was no 
written order. I had just arranged for a conference with the head 
engineer in the Public Works Ministry and convinced him that what he 
was doing was not sound. He sent a wire to the field stopping the 
work that afternoon. I was completely exonerated and the young man 
was transferred to other work. That is the way I proceeded in con 
tacting the ministries. I assumed that I had no right to give orders. 
Instead I relied on friendly conferences. It is true, of course, 
that I had an advantage, being in a position to withhold aid funds 
where I was certain mistakes were being made. On strictly engineering 
questions T relied on Charles Harris who was a former Bureau of 


Packard: Reclamation engineer who was on my staff. 1 relied too on the ad 
vice of Dr. Frixos Letsas, a German trained Greek engineer of un 
usual capacity. 

Baum: To get back to the work of the Harza Company, did it work out? 

Packard: In spite of the difficulties a reasonably satisfactory flood control 
project was carried out. 

Grontmi j Company of Holland 

The Grontmi j Company of Holland was employed to study the river 
deltas and lagoons along the Greek coast and to prepare master plans 
for X.uider 7et type projects where conditions favored such develop 
ment. Tlu- Dutch were a very practical lot who got along well with 
the Greeks and wasted no time in getting down to work. It was thought 
that by building levees out into the sea and then pumping the water 
out as they do in the Zuider Zee, they could reclaim quite a lot of 

I went to Holland to see what they were doing there. I visited 
one of the polders reclaiming a 125,000 acre area -- the newest polder 
in Holland. The water stood twenty-five feet against the levees, 
showing thf extent to which they went to reclaim the land. And they 
put drainage ditches in and had to pump the water out because it was 
below sea level. The land there was rather porous so that they 
got rid of the salt rather quickly. Tile drains at frequent intervals 
carried water to the open drains. The drainage system in Holland 
was very much more detailed in design than the projects in Greece. 


Packard: At the present time they re beginning to use tile in Greece. But in 
Holland everything was drained by tile. 

Baum: And what was it drained by in Greece? 

Packard: Open ditches. But since the open ditches take so much land, tile 

drains are being used wherever possible, I understand. The Grontmi j 
Company worked first in the Messenia area where there were hundreds 
of acres flooded with sea water from the Gulf of Corinth where the 
Greeks had developed quite a fishing industry. Consequently there 
was quite an argument as to whether or not agriculture would produce 
more wealth or more food than the fishing industry. In any case the 
Grontmi i Company made an elaborate master plan for the development of 
the area. 

Baum: Who selected these companies? Was that part of the Marshall Plan work? 

Packard: Yes, the American Mission cooperated with the ministries of Agricul 
ture and Public Works in selecting the companies and in outlining 
the work to be done. 

Boot Company of London 

Tn addition to the Harza and Grontmi j companies, the Boot Company 
from London was employed to carry out geophysical studies of ground 
water resources in Greece. The company had had wide experience in 
developing well water in North Africa and in India. In the begin 
ning, Howard Haworth was director of the well program for the Mission. 
He had three practical well drillers as field workers, all of whom 
remained throughout my stay in Greece. But when the reclamation pro 
gram was coordinated in my division, Hayworth and his men were trans- 


Packard: ferred but remained in charge of the well program. These men worked 
with the well drilling division of the Ministry of Agriculture, 
which, with American aid purchased twenty-five American well dril 
ling rigs including both percussion and hydraulic rigs of modern 
make. These rigs were in great demand especially by towns needing 
fresh well water. A very striking change took place in the Thebes 
Valley while I was there. Irrigation wells with deep well pumps had 
transformed the area from winter wheat growing into a rich green ir 
rigated valley producing potatoes, and other truck crops as well as 
cotton . 

Baum: Was it lack of water that prevented earlier development? 

Packard: No, it was lack of well drilling equipment and proper pumps. Most of 
the old wells were dug by hand and were not very deep. 

Baum: I thought irrigation had been invented in those countries thousands 
of years ago. (Laughter) 

Packard: Yes, so did I. (Laughter) I saw many remains of fantastic domestic 
water supply systems built during Roman times but I can understand 
why there was so little irrigation. 

Forest and KnnKc- Land Rehabilitation 

Tn the beginning, the forestry work was under an American for 
ester who had come over from Italy to take charge of what was to be 
done in the rehabilitation of the forest resources in Greece. But he 
didn t last very long. He didn t get along very well with the Greeks. 
He was dictatorial and wanted to have them immediately change over 
their systems very drastically. And it s very hard to get the Greeks 


Packard: to do that unless you have a very good reason. So that the forest 
and range land work was also turned over to me as another resource 
development. Martin Klemme, a forest and range land specialist, was 
appointed to my staff. 

Baum: Now, what was the name of your department? 

Packard: I had the title of Chief of the Land and Water Resources Development 

Program. This included the development of both forest and range land. 
These two categories plus barren land accounted for 717, of the total 
land area divided as follows: 

Type of land resource 
Forest land 
Range land 
Barren land 

Per Cent of total area 


A statement of the problem and a summary of the results attained 
are given in Part II of the document entitled Can Greece Feed, Clothe, 
and House its Growing Population?, which I prepared before leaving 
Greece, June, 1954. (Copy on file) The record includes the con 
struction or improvement of 280 kilometers of forest roads, the 
production of 153,000,000 trees in forest nurseries, the construction 
of many permanent and temporary erosion control dams and structures, 
and the construction of troughs and reservoirs in the range country 
for use by sheep in expanding the useable range. 


Baum: I always think of Greek trees as being low. I have no concept 
of big trees. 

Packard: Oh yes, they have big trees. Then they also have hardwood variety 
timber that could produce all the hardwood they need. It s snowy 
and cold in the- mountains in the winter and pine trees grow well 
there, too. 

Baum: T guess 1 think of low, jagged, dry hills with brush. 

Packard: That s true in the low areas. But in the mountains it s just like 
in the Sierras. The mountains go up to 12,000 feet. I ll read 
some of this now: (Pages ^7 -39 and Pages 45-46 of the report en 
titled Can Greece Feed, Clothe, and House its Growing Population?) 


Although a propran of further development in 1952-53 and 
1953-5U was outlined and Mission approval of a further grant 
in aid was Indicated, no money from tho State Investment Fund 
was spont because tho proposed plans for expansion of tho procran 
ware not approved by tha Greek Governmont. 

Largely, as a result of the program carried out between 
19U7 and 1?52, production of sawn soft-wood tinber in 1953-5U 
about doubles tho pre-war figure- while importation waa reduced 
by an estimated 129,700 cubic motors or a reduction of 56 percent, 
based on pre-war imports. The detailed fibres are shown in 
Table 10. 



Construction Timber 
(Cubic motors) 

: Production Civilian Imports Total 
of sawn Imports for re- avail- 
Year soft wood Construct- Total construct- abilities 

ion Timber* ion ** 




U=2 r 3 


6- li* < 


62 .1*1*0 


352, lUo 





26)4/> 00 



326, 1*26 










359, Ull 
















12 1*, 000 







* 160,000 



From Table I paf-o 189 of "Greece Import Data Book" Fiscal year 
1953-5U, M.S. A. Operations Mission to Greece, FP Division, 


* Source : Ministry of Public Works 
Preliminary Estimates 


The quality of tha luribor produced by the Forust Service 
fro;- National forests is not equal to inportod lur.bcr, in 
l.-.r. -o part, N:c" t,hK; Forest oorvice is forced, by nood forest 
:;rnctico, to harvest th_: over-natured trees first in order to 
ir.provo conditions in the forests. This condition will be 
radually altered as the over-nature trees disappear. 

The records covering production, importation and exportation 
.->.? hardwoods were affected by a narked substitution of netals 
for hardwood in the construction of nany iter.s in consuner use. 
For exanple, before tho war, all bus bodies nanufactured in Greece 
w.,rc r.iadu of h.ird vood . llov; they arj nado of steol, aluninun or 
other ratals, "pain, beforo the war, freight transportation v;as 

i.ado on a lar;-;o scale by wooden horse -<lrawn wa.^-ne manufactured in 
Greece fron hard<7ood. NCP.V automobiles and trucks have largely 

replaced the old radons. In large, because of these and other 
si-alar changes, inports of hardwood have dropped fron 11,0^3 I-IT 
in 1938 to 863 MT in 1952, while exports have dropped fron 8?9 MT 
tc 153 ?;? durinr tha sane period. Total production declined only 
sli.jhtly or fro:; 27,336 MT in 1938 to 23,UU8 MT in 19^2.* 

Ranfo :-tana,: P "ent inprovonont work has been covered, in detail, 
in other reports, and noed not be repeated in here. Suffice it 
to ;iay that the program consisted chiefly of tho construction of 
water holes in high mountain areas and in carrying out numerous 
demonstrations of a v/ide variety of pasture passes and legumes. 

Fron Table entitled "Hardwood Production, Inports, Exports 

Consumption" page 193* "Greece Inport Data Book" vol II FP Div.FQA, 

s 502 


Tho Rangeland inprovcr.ent is a vital ".art of tho food production 
progra" 1 and is closely associated v/ith tho irrigation of the plains 
and do It a rtr~ns. Tho construction of water holes and other ran/re 
r-provoriont work in tlu high nountnins will greatly increase th .; 
carrying capacity of tho .sunder range. In like nanncr, tho 
production of alfalfa and various sumor gro-ving (grains ard forago 
crops in irri^ atod aroas will groatly increase the carrying capacity 
of tho winter rango. "ith thoso inprovoMente in the v/intor and 
su" icr ranro s tho snrinc and fall ran^e lands need not be ovcr- 
rrazed as at present and will, therefore, provide better Spring 
and Fall pasture than now. The detailed record of accomplishments 
and costs is presented in Table 9 
3 Future Dovelopr.ient and B inancing 

Novr, as to tho future: Tho possibilities are intreaguing. 
Detailed plans have boon prepared for the initial developnent 
of the forost r:nd rant:eland resources, on a sustained yield 
basis, in olovon selected areas. If these plans are carried 
out, production of timber by 199> v . ill be increased by 136,000 
cubic notors per year; the use of foreign exchange for purchase 
of tirbor v;ill bo reduced by $ 6,^00,000 annually; 10,000 
mountain people will be permanently employed and the incone to 
th-~ Forost Service will be increased by 136 Million new Drachnae, 
out of v;hich the Foi-ost Service can finance nountain road construct 
ion, reforestation, fire protection, range inprovenent 1 and 
associated non-incor.e producing, but essential, conservation and 
dovolopnont activities. Tho Rangoland inprovenont program will 
bo concentrated in tho eleven selected areas but will not 



Greece is primarily an agricultural country. Its wellbeing 
depends more upon production from the land than upon any other 
factor. The land and water resources are limited - more United 
in relation to the population than in any other European country. 
Tl;o population, moreover, is increasing at ?j rate double than 
that of mom ^uropoan countries. Efy carrying out the program 
of development outlined in this report, Greece can feed its 
growing population on a minimum diet for rood health for another 
generation without resorting a pain, to the importation of major 
food items. And, when the proposed program is nearing completion 
a new one can be inaugurated including, among others, the completion 
of the Xanthi-Komotini Project for which a Master Plan has already - 
been prepared involving the irrigation of 703,000 stremmas of 
first class land not included in the presently planned program. 

In like manner the Forest and Range land resources of Greece 
can contribute much more than now to the welfare of Greece, The 
forests can now provide on a sustained yield basis more of the 
lumber - both pine and hard wood - presently required and within 
a reasonable period can meet all needs including pulp, if the 
proposed program is put into effect. The rangelands, likewise, 
can contribute more than now to the supply of meat, milk, wool 
and hides if the basic resources are conserved and -developed 
as planned. 


The physical Job involves no serious problems. The proposed 
program can bo financed from the investment budget without 
inflationary impact if the total investment program is properly 
planned and programmed. The one important problem remaining 
unsolved concerns the need for the creation of a competent 
unified technical organization in one Ministry. The need 
for joining the land reclamation, forestry and rangeland 
management under one unified administrative organization is 
acute . Nothing should bo allowed to stand in the way of this 
essential move. Much can be gained by early action. 

Advisory Group 
Land & Water Resources Development 


Rice Growing and Alkali Reclamation Program 

Packard: In the summer of 1948 I visited a small project in Thrace where 
YPEM under the direction of Christides was conducting a small recla 
mation project where an attempt was being made to reclaim alkali land 
by growing rice. The results were not too encouraging but, on the 
basis of my experience in the Sacramento Valley, I felt that the ex 
periment was not based on good techniques. 

Baum: What experience had you had in rice production in the Sacramento 

Packard: For a couple of years I was handling property that had been taken 
over by foreclosure by the Western States Life Insurance Company. 
This included several hundred acres of rice grown on the alkali 
"goose land" of the Sacramento Valley. This was in the interim 
period following my experience at Delhi. 

I knew that thousands of acres of deep and potentially produc 
tive soils were located in the deltas of many of the important rivers 
in Greece which I thought could be reclaimed by a combination of ir 
rigation and deep drainage. So, in the winter and spring of 1949 
I worked with Christides in the Salonika area and with Paleologue 
in three other parts of Greece in establishing 100 acre rice plots 
on alkali land. In two cases ditches were excavated from the river 
bank to the flood control levees, large pipes were put through the 
levee to deliver the water to the rice plot. In the other areas 
where no levees existed the ditches were excavated from the river to 
the plots. In all cases structures were installed to control the 


Packard: flow from the river. The second step was to excavate deep drain 
age systems (as deep as eight feet). Then the irrigation systems 
were built to distribute the water over the land. This left the 
land in rectangular plots each of which was levelled and the nec 
essary border built. After flooding for two weeks or so the land 
was ready for planting. The theory is that flood water carries the 
salts from the surface soils, thus permitting the shallow rooted 
rice to grow in salt-free topsoil. Since most of the land was near 
sea level, pumps had to be installed at the outlets of the drains to 
permit the drains to function. 

Baum: Who owned the land and what arrangements did you have to make to 
use it? 

Packard: The land in each case belonged to an adjacent village. Most of it 

was so impregnated with alkali (salt) that nothing would grow. Some 
patches would produce a few alkali resistant weeds during rainy 
season, but in general it was barren. 

In each case we would call a town meeting in a village taverna 
where the plans would be presented and discussed. In no case did any 
of the peasants believe that rice could be grown but they were willing 
for us to go ahead if we paid the bills. Another factor was, of 
course, that the work created a lot of jobs for village people. In 
each case we offered to pay the village ten per cent of the crop as 
rent to help overcome their skepticism. As the field began to turn 
green with the growing rice, the villagers would walk or ride their 
burros around the fields, speculating as to when the rice would begin 


to wither and die. 


Packard: To make a long story short, three of these first plots were 
very successful. The rent was paid in rice and divided evenly 
among the villagers. I was made an honorary citizen in one town 
and had the main road leading to the rice field named after me in 
another. The fourth plot failed because- of the high content of 
black jilkult (sodium carbonate) which killed the plants and made 
the soil relatively impervious to water penetration. 

Baum: Was your plan that the rice was only going to be an interim crop to 
reclaim the land? Or was it going to be a permanent crop? 

Packard: I thought it would be a permanent crop. But I thought it would al 
ways be associated with the reclamation of alkali land very largely. 
One of the Greek chemists estimated that we washed out sixty tons 
of salt per acre the first year by that process. 

Baum: Good heavens! And you got a crop. (Laughter) 

Packard: Yes, we had a good crop on three of the plots. The people in the 
village of Anthili, where one of the plots was located, were so 
pleased that they put on quite a rice harvest festival. The Chief 
of the Mission and several of his staff and a number of Greek of 
ficials attended. When they saw the tall rice plants with heads of 
rice being harvested they were all thrilled and I was a very happy 
man because I had taken a good deal of responsibility in financing 
the venture. The people of the village put on a wonderful dinner 
including rice prepared in different ways. There was dancing in 
the plaza. One of the older women danced delightedly with a full 
wine glass on her head. And there were many speeches. The second 


Packard: year it was YPEM s turn to put on a fiesta which they did in a 

grand style with a brass band from Salonika playing the dance music. 
But all was not smooth going. In one case four relatively rich 
sheep owners tried to stop the second year program on the lower 
Acheloos because they had been using the community property as free 
pasture. When I went to the village with my Greek associates we 
settled the matter by calling a town meeting in the main taverna and 
presenting the problem. The four men were so insistent on their 
right to use the land that they were about to be thrown out physi 
cally when I proposed to put the matter to a vote. I told the mayor 
we would abide by a vote if he asked for it. Which he did. The 
vote was unanimous for extending the rice program, except for the 
four men. So I said we would work with the village in continuing 
and expanding the program. In the turmoil that followed I was car 
ried on the shoulders of two men from the taverna to the plaza amid 
the cheers of the villagers. 

On another occasion I was taking a new Chief of the Mission 
on his first field trip. I was, of course, anxious to have things 
move smoothly. But on reaching one of the rice fields I noticed 
that the drainage ditch was full of water. I asked if the pumps 
were working and was assured that they were. I finally found that 
a grower with 700 stremma of rice had shut off a portion of the 
main drain with a dam on which he had dug a ditch to irrigate his 
field. He had everyone afraid because he told the Greeks who were 
responsible for the operation of the system that if they interfered 


Packard: with his dam, blood would be flowing in the ditch. So we drove 
over to the place where the drain was shut off and I talked to 
the man who had shut off the drain. I pointed out that his ability 
to grow rice at all was due to the fact that the American Mission 
had developed the water supply which made the rice project possible 
and that 1 was not going to stand for his action against the in 
terests of the rest of the community. I said that I would see that 
he had the material to build a wooden flume to replace his earthen 
ditch if he- did not have the mate-rial. I then ordered the drag 
line operator to remove thc> earth fill across the drain which he- 
did with a few sweeps of his dragline. Within minutes the man was 
busy building a flume with material he had on the place. 
Baum: The Greeks, apparently, are not always cooperative. (Laughter) 
Packard: That s true. Individuals can be very belligerent when they decide 
to act in their own interest. But on the other hand when the vil 
lagers see an advantage in working together they can be very coop 
erative. In recent times they have had little opportunity for coop 
eration. That s why I was so much in favor of organizing irrigation 
districts which put responsibility in the hands of the villagers in 
volved. I shall never forget the experience in Arta when the first 
irrigation district was organized. There was an all day meeting of 
elected representatives from several villages involved in the system, 
during which the Ministry engineers presented the estimate of the 
coming year s operation and maintenance costs and other relevant 
matters. When it came time to make the decision each of the elected 


Packard: representatives marked a paper for or against the proposed budget 
which came to several thousand dollars. The vote was unanimous 
and it was the first time these people had ever been able to act 
together in their own inter-community interest. I am told that 
there are over 200 irrigation districts in Greece at the present 

Baum: Just how was the rice program organized and just what part did you 
play in it? 

Packard: It was a government operation. It was organized by a committee of 
Ministry of Agriculture personnel headed by John Palelogue, head of 
the Mechanical Cultivation Service, while I represented the Mission. 
I had to approve the funds and had, of course, to get authorization 
from a finance committee headed by the comptroller. 

The costs were not wholly associated with growing the rice. 
The rice had to be dried after harvest because of its high content 
of moisture. As I recall it, fifteen mechanical driers were pur 
chased and warehouses constructed to store the grain. But the opera 
tion as a whole was quite successful. The year I left, Greece ex 
ported 75,000 tons of rice, in addition to supplying the home market. 

But, after two or three years, after the land proved it could 
produce something, and some of the land got reclaimed so that you 
could actually grow wheat on it, the farmers wanted to get the com 
munity land distributed. I rather favored keeping it as a public op 
eration, but we had to give in to the villagers. So the Greek gov 
ernment sub-divided these rice lands and distributed them to the land 
less farmers. 



Packard: In Anthili, for example, I was there one day when I noticed a 
group of peasants that obviously wanted to see me. So I asked the 
group I was talking with, "Who arc- they?" And they said, "They re 
the landless farmers in the village." Well, I said, "They re the 
very people 1 want to see." So I went right over to them and talked 
with them. I told them, "We want you to get this land, all this re 
claimed land." We tried to develop land that would be distributed 
to landless farmers. In Anthili, for example, every landless farmer 
got a farm before we left. And that was true in most of the projects. 
In very large numbers the landless farmers got farms. They would be 
small, four or five acres to a family, but four or five acres of 
Irrigated land meant a great deal. It was so much more productive 
than a normal area. And the farms in Greece were very small anyway. 
And not only were they small but they were scattered. A man in a 
village might have a small strip of land on a hill that would pro 
duce very small grain and have another strip on the other side of 
town of rather good flat land. Sometimes a man would have as much 
as say five parcels of land around the town. And of course each was 
too small to farm effectively at all. 

Baum: Did they live on their land or did they all live in villages? 

Packard: They lived in villages. 

Baum: Well, how did that work out? After you divided the land... 

Packard: Yes it worked out quite well. 

Baum: They kept it up and were able to farm the land effectively? 


Packard: On one occasion I was taking a professor from the University of 

California at Davis over the rice fields at Anthili. Some of the 
former landless farmers from the village were pulling out weeds in 
the rice fields . They waved to me and I stopped. And they came 
over and one of the women who was a widow with two children whose 
husband had been killed in the war, curtsied and kissed my hand. 
Tt wns embarrassing to mo but it was the sort of thing that peasants 
often did. And she expressed the gratitude of the people there. 
They all clapped and supported her. Each had been given an area 
of about four acres of partially reclaimed alkali land. The income 
that she would get from that increased her level of living so much 
that she was completely grateful. Any of us who had been assigned 
to live on her level couldn t stand it. That expressed the thank 
fulness and inner feeling of these people. When we left, this 
professor had tears running down his cheeks. He said he d never 
seen a more touching scene. 

Working with the Villagers 

Baum: Did the American workers feel it was part of their work to make the 
people understand what they were trying to do? Were public rela 
tions a part of your responsibilities? 

Packard: Yes. And one interesting thing about it was that when we first 

got there the Greeks were not inclined to take the villagers in on 
any discussions at all. They said, "What do they know about it?" 
And I said, "They re the people we re working for. And we ve got 
to talk with them." So I insisted on having meetings. And the 


Packard: first one was in Anthili. I went to see the mayor who immediately 
said, "I ll call the rest of the city council together." I said, 
"I don t want that. I want to talk to everybody." And so he got 
the largest taverna he could find in the village and all the men 
came. A few women came and stood listening from the outside. I 
told them what we. thought we might do and wanted them to appoint a 
committee with whom wc> could work. Wf1 1 , the Greeks were rather 
surprised <it this. One- of the Greeks particularly, Kalinski, who 
was a brother-in-law of the prime minister and rather dignified, 
was one of the ones who had derided this approach. But later on 
when I was off doing something else and came back to the central 
square in the village, there he was making a speech to all the vil 
lagers. He was very much sold on the idea. That was the approach 
we had wherever I went. 

Baum: Now these Greeks that you worked with, they would have been mem 
bers of the government? They were the class that would have been 
in the government. 

Packard: The people I worked with were technicians of the government, with 
the ministries of Public Works and Agriculture. 

Baum: So they were the same people that the ordinary people would have 
felt were against them? 

Packard: No. The villagers made a distinction between the technicians that 
were with me and the politicians in Athens. They were afraid the 
politicians might want to take their land away from them. 

Baum: I see. 


Packard: So there was a great deal of skepticism. And that was so all 

over Greece. Wherever we went we found that same sort of skep 

Baum: But they had confidence in the Greek young men you had with you? 

Packard: Yes, because they had the same attitude. They hadn t been let down 
by them yet, as they had been by the politicians. 

Well, there was another experience on the same line. This in 
volved the head of the Ministry of Public Works. We were in 
Agrinion and we were going to look at a flood control project on 
the Acheloos River, involving the interest of a village in danger of 
being washed away. I said, "I m going out to the village and talk 
with them this morning. Don t you want to come along?" He said, 
"Oh no, I don t want to talk to those people, I don t want to do 
that sort of thing." So I told him to meet me later, and I went 
out. Everybody came to the meeting. In due time, I looked out the 
window and I saw Papanicalau sitting in his car. Then he began 
to hear the discussion. A little later he got out of his car and 
came in to the meeting. And in a little while he was up in front 
discussing as vehemently as anybody else. He was swinging his arms 
as fye spoke. A committee of villagers was appointed and Papanicalau 
went out with the committee to inspect the river and was very much 
impressed by what they knew about the situation there. 

There was still another case that shows the conflict that they 
had in some of the villages. There was one area in the delta of 
the Acheloos River where we had put in rice for one year and we 


Packard: were deciding whether to do it a second year. It had been very 
successful the first year. The village received 10% of the rice 
crop as rent for their village land. And every family in the vil 
lage got their share of the 107o of the rice crop. This was the 
first time that anything like that had ever happened. So the 
majority was completely sold on the idea. Of course, some objected 
like the four livestock raisers I told you about who wanted to use 
the community land for pasture, poor as it was. 

Baum: Do Greeks eat much rice normally? 

Packard: They use it on special occasions, but it is not an important part 
of the average diet, partly because it was too high priced. 

Home Visit, Trips, and Family 
Home Leave, 1951 

Baum: You were in Greece a long time, 1948 to 1954. Did you get back to 
the United States during that time, or see any of your family? 

Packard: Our only home leave came in 1951 because of my special trip to 
Washington in 1949. We took the Orient Express from Athens to 
Paris and from there we went to London and came home on the 
Queen Mary. We were met in New York by Frances Adams who took us 
to lunch and saw us off on the train to Washington. After checking 
in at the EGA offices we left for Iowa to visit Emma s family. The 
old two-hundred-acre farm, which used to support eight horses, was 
completely mechanized with not a single horse on the place. Dairy 
COWH had replaced tho fattening Hti-cTH of oar Her dayn. Modern 


Packard: milking machines carried the milk from the cows to the cooling 
vat. The milk was sold through a cooperative and most of the 
things used on the farm were purchased through a cooperative 
store. The farm was part of a Rural Electrification Association, 
replacing the lamps and lanterns of earlier days. After a few 
days stay in Iowa we went on to Berkeley and spent the balance 
of our leave with Emmy Lou who was then living in San Francisco 
and Clara who had her home in Napa. 

I found that I had to have a prostate operation so I returned 
to Washington where I entered the Navy hospital at Bethesda. This 
interlude delayed our return to Greece by about two weeks. All 
hospital costs were paid by the government, as were our medical 
services while in Athens. 

We went back on the Queen Mary instead of flying as we didn t 
want to get back too quickly. We went to England and then by boat 
and train to Paris where we took the Orient Express the rest of 
the way through. 

When we were going through Yugoslavia, I had a very severe pain 
in my back. It was supposed to be kidney stones although I never 
did find exactly what it was. I was in terrific pain and I got the 
conductor to know I wanted some morphine. At the next stop a doctor 
got on and gave me some morphine. I said, "How much will this be?" 
and he said, "Oh, there s no charge. This is a socialist country. 
Aufwiedersehen. " And he got off the train and that was all there 
was to it. That shot carried me until I got to Athens. 


Trip to Germany 

Packard: Several months later I got ill and the doctors thought it was 
associated with the same difficulty I had had in Washington. I 
had a temperature of 103 and was feeling very badly. The doctors 
said I should go to Germany to the U.S. Army Hospital. I went on a 
rickety old Army plane. The doctor was with me. We flew to Rome. 
I was lying on the floor all covered with blankets. But even then 
the wind coming through was terrific. I was shivering most of the 

The plane had difficulty before it got to Rome, so we had to 
stay there for about five hours while they fixed the plane. Then, 
in place of going over the Alps on a direct flight to Frankfurt, 
wo had to go around because it was foggy. So we went around and I 
landed in Frankfurt about nine o clock at night. I never was so 
glad to get into bed in my life as I was then. 

I had another operation there that was again paid for by the 
Army. Emma came up from Greece at her own expense, but we both 
went back on an Army plane. That again was paid for by the gov 


Packard: That was an interesting experience. I stayed at an Army hotel that 

the Americans had taken over. Of course we were an occupying army 
up there and the Germans weren t too friendly. It was a most un 
smiling country. People looked poor. They were glum and unsmiling. 
I think they re more so anyway than the Greeks. 
Baum: The cold climate. 



Packard: It wasn t so cold at the time we got up there. I stayed at the 

hotel and went on the streetcar up to the Army hospital which 
was a ride of a half an hour. There were a great many things 
going on. The opera had started up. They had built a new opera 
house. The old opera house was bombed out, I don t know how many 
years before, in the war. It was one of the old classic kinds of 
architecture. We went by on the streetcar and there was a tree 
growing up out of the ruins. It was about a ten-foot tree that 
had caught root up on the second story and was growing. 

I went out to this big Army hospital and visited as much as 
I could. Sometimes I had lunch out there. I got a little bit of 
a look at what the city was like. It was terribly bombed out 
(Frankfurt). It looked as if every other block had just had a 
blockbuster dropped in it and it would just be a shambles. Then 
they built some very unattractive temporary housing like we some 
times threw up for shipyard work at home. Some places had been 
cleared off. 

We took a river trip after Walter was able to get out of the 
hospital down the Rhine to Cologne on an excursion boat. We got 
off at Cologne, having been told we wouldn t have any trouble this 
time of year getting a hotel room. The main hotel we went to was 
absolutely jammed with an international camera convention. We 
couldn t get a room. They phoned around - they were very nice 
about it - and sent us in a taxi way over to another part of the 
city. We entered a little side door, down a long, narrow hall, and 



Packard: to a little window, like a ticket window. They took our names and 

sent a young boy to carry our bags and show us the way. We went 
through a restaurant, then we went in a door which was marked 
"Men" (Laughter), but it went upstairs. Kach time he would un 
lock another door. He must have unlocked three or four doors. We 
finally got into the hall and to the private apartment of the owner 
of this hotel. Very nice, luxurious place, nice bathtub. That was 
the only room we could get in Cologne. But it was very, very com 

Then we got settled and took our taxi (which we had asked to 
wait) back. We got our dinner, and then went through the Cologne 
Cathedral which was just across the street from this big hotel. 
It had been bombed. Part of it, one wing, was just a shambles. 
They were having some kind of a big service, with a cardinal, in 
the main part. We stood and watched it for a while. 

Packard: We stopped off at Bonn on our way going back to Frankfurt. In 
stead of going by boat we went by train. We visited my sister, 
Esther Chadbourn, who was there with her son, Alfred Chadbourn, with 
whom she was visiting. He was working for the American Mission 
and was in charge of the building program. He showed us a good 
deal of the new buildings that were going up. 

Bnum: The German buildings or for the Army? 

Packard: They were buildings we had put up for American use -- apartment 

houses mostly. 


Packard: There are a lot of things for the Army base that we still probably 

have there. 


t j I 


- - 


, i 



Packard: Yes, that s true. From Bonn we returned to Frankfurt and then 
went to Heidelberg where we visited the University and the old 
castle. We also saw the famous cafe where the dueling took place 
in the famous opera The Student Prince. We spent a few hours in 
Munich on our way to Garmisch where we stayed for a few days. As 
government employees we were given a bedroom with bath and sep 
arate sitting room in a new Army hotel for $1.50 per day with good 

American meals at comparable prices. 


Packard: While in Garmisch, we took several bus rides to prominent tourist 

places such as Oberammergau, where we saw the famous theater which 
stages the Passion Play every ten years. We were shown the costumes 
and theater equipment and taken to some of the shops that are run 
by the actors -- all being townspeople. From there we went to 
"mad" Ludwig s Castle -- a private castle built on the pattern of 
the Versailles Palace -- since he was a great admirer of things 
French. There was a small copy of the "Hall of Mirrors" and other 
features of the palace had been copied as well. Later, we went to 
Innsbruck and spent the night there, after an evening in what was 
advertised as a typical German beer parlor or night club which put 
on a variety show. 



While we were in Greece we arranged to have our two daughters 
and our two grandchildren visit us. Donald Cairns, Emmy Lou s son, 
came in June. He had just finished high school at the Verde Valley 
School in Sedona, Arizona, and we thought a trip to Greece might 



Packard: give him direction. He stayed with us for two months at the 

Acropole Palace Hotel and I took him on several field trips which 
tended to put him in touch with reality. I remember his saying 
that he was going to find a job and accumulate some money while 
he was with us. On asking him what he had to sell in the way of 
skills worth paying for he realized that he had none other than the 
ability to do manual work which wouldn t bring in enough to pay his 
board. The visit was worthwhile although it took a stretch in the 
army on his return home to give him direction. The army gave him 
work in connection with the Language School at Monterey, California, 
where he learned a great deal about tape recording and radios. The 
GI Bill of Rights helped finance his remaining years at the Univ 
ersity of California where he became interested in drama and the 
theater. The year following graduation he taught English in a 
French school in Lyons, France, which enabled him to perfect his 
French. On returning to the U.S. he attended the Yale Drama School 
for three years and is now in his fourth year on the faculty of 
Allegheny College at Meadville, Pennsylvania teaching drama, 
English, and directing plays. 

Shortly after our return from home leave in 1949 Clara and her 
daughter Judy joined us. The death of little Bobbie in 1946 and 
other matters made Bob, Clara s husband, go to pieces and a separa 
tion seemed necessary. Clara and Judy, then nine years old, were 
with us for about nine months during which time Clara taught in the 
English School in Athens. This experience, together with her degree 

Dr. Walter E. Packard receives from Vice President Emeritus of Columbia 
University, George B. Pegram, and Chairman of the Anglo-American-Hellenic 
Bureau of Education the Bureau s Certificate of Appreciation with the 

"Your unprecedented achievements in Greek agricultural economy 
have been a great inspiration to our scholarship students from Greece 
and an incentive to work with like devotion for all the Greeks as you 
have worked for the villagers of Anthili." 

Bidim/IoO 3to auUiisma ztngbjagil soiV moil asvJcsoai folios 4 ! .3 i93lBW .id 

BoiisjnA-olgnA .erfi lo nBr/iisriO bns ,mBi9^[ .a ag^osD 
arto ri3iw noiJBlos jqqA lo 93BoJtii3^90 a uBSTuS arfs rroiioufa3 io 

ni ainsmavaJfcrfoB 

909910 moil aitnabu^a qirlaielorioa luo o3 noiJBiiqani Jfisig B nasd 
uoy as a^93iO sri3 HB ioi noiiovsb gjfil rlsiw >liow oi avlinaoni nB LnB 

".ilxrlinA lo aisgfiliiv sd3 iol barlow 



Packard: in social work from the University of California and her ability 

as a typist, enabled her to get a job in the Napa schools on her 
return. Some years after her divorce she married Joel Coffield, 
a member of one of the old families in Napa. She is now the Dean 
of Girls in the Napa Junior High School. Judy, during a trip 
abroad, met William Domhoff whom she later married. He is now 
in the psychology department of the University of California at 
Santa Cruz. They have three children, one of whom is William 
Packard Domhoff. 

Emmy Lou was the last to visit us. She was the guest of 
Frances Adams who took her on a tour of Europe. Frances visited 
us later, in 1954, and attended the ceremony when the bust was un 
veiled in Anthili. Emmy Lou had made a place for herself in the 
art world of San Francisco and established an art studio and home 
in the City. In 1959, she married Byron Randall, an artist friend 
of long standing whose wife had been killed in an automobile ac 
cident. They purchased a place in Mendocino where Emmy Lou has 
been an active fighter for peace and against the war in Vietnam. 
Her peace work took her to the International Peace Conference in 
Helsinki in 1965 and to the Afro-Asian Conference in Djakarta, in 
each case representing the American Women for Peace. 

Celebrations and Honors from the People of Greece 

Packard: T ^ e rice program attracted quite a lot of attention because 
producing a good rice crop from formerly barren land had a lot of 
popular appeal. A syndicated article on the rice program appeared 


Packard: in a large number of American papers. Maynard Williams, roving 

photographer for the National Geographic Society, wrote an article 
with pictures of the rice for the National Geographic Magazine. 
The program at the village of Anthili received by far the greatest 
attention for two reasons: The Anthili Irrigation District voted 
the money to hire Professor Nikos Perantinos, head of the sculpture 
department of the University of Athens, to make a marble bust of me 
to be located in the village plaza. * 1 knew nothing of this until I 
attended a meeting of the district when the announcement was made. 
Emma and I had Robert P. Tristram Coffin, Pulitzer Prize winning 
poet and Dr. and Mrs. Alfred Gross of Bowdoin College as our guests 
on what we thought would be a routine field trip. Following the 
Irrigation District meeting we were all guests at a dinner in a 
large room of the home of one of the prominent farmers and an of 
ficer of the district. It was quite an affair. The directors of 
the district were there and sat at the table while the women served 
the meal of barbecued lamb, rice, bread, sheep-milk cheese, olives, 
fruit and wine. There was much singing of both Greek and American 
songs. After what he said was his twentieth refill of his wine 
glass, Dr. Coffin rose to lead the singing with arms waving. 
(Laughter) On our way back Dr. Coffin said that the meeting re 
minded him of some New England town meetings he had attended when 
a boy. 

When he returned to Athens he wrote the following poem, en 
titled American Monument in Greece: 

*The villagers requested that the bust have a bow tie, since he did 
not look familiar to them without it. This inspired Time Magazine to 


Packard: Men are remembered for cities they conquered 
Pyramids of skulls of warriors slain 
But this American s monument in Hellas 
Is starry-eyed boys and fields of grain 

Towns wear gods names, saints names, virtues -- 
Athens, St. Louis, Concord and such 
But far safer names are flowers and babies 
Rice kernels, wheat sheaves time can not touch 

Where red Thermopylae pours its bitter 
Waters in fenland wasted by the sea 
This warrior for peace defied old ruin 
Commanded cotton and rice fields to be 

He took from the sea the salty desert, 

Sweetened the marsh lands with rice s sweet pearls 

Sweetened the soil with homes and weddings 

Made the desert bloom with boys and girls 

Better a man knee-deep in children 
Than tall Charlemagne or Genghis Khan; 
After wars are forgotten this village Anthili 
Will still remember this rice planting man. 

Dr. Coffin was a Greek scholar as well as a poet, so he wrote 
the poem in iambic pentameter. 

The first process in making the bust was the taking of a 
couple of dozen pictures of my head and shoulders to serve as a 
basis for measurements. Professor Nikos Perantinos then modeled 
a bust out of red clay and was able to get a remarkable likeness. 
Then I posed several times while he put on the finishing touches. 
The clay model was then turned over to the stone workers after a 
block of white marble and a nine foot shaft of white marble had 
been secured from the marble quarries at Mt. Pentelikon, from 
which the marble for the Parthenon had come. It was completed 
two weeks before I left Greece in June, 1954 and dedicated at a 

* contd. state in their news report that "It is the only bust in 
Greece wearing a bow tie." [Added by Mrs. Packard] 


Packard: ceremony attended by the American ambassador, Mr. Cavendish 
Cannon, the Chief of the Mission, Leland Barrows, the Greek 
Minister of Agriculture and many other Greek and American of 
ficials. Again, the people of Anthili staged quite a celebra 
tion, with a big dinner for 150 and dancing in the plaza. A 
band from Lamia provided the music. The bust was covered with 
American and Greek flags which were withdrawn as the band played 
the national anthems. Among the speeches was one by the Minister 
of Agriculture during which he presented me with the papers pre 
sented by the Greek government to the American Mission, proposing 
that I be decorated by the King. He explained that the idea had 
been turned down by the American Embassy on policy grounds. I 
was, however, nonetheless pleased over the gesture. 

Following the ceremony at Anthili I was presented with a 
large silver tray and silver bowl to match by the employees of 
the Mechanical Cultivation Service at a ceremony at Lamia. We 
returned to Athens via Delphi and its neighborning city, Arakova, 
where I was presented with a scroll making me a member of the 
Arakova Irrigation District. I had supported a local project 
which brought water through a tunnel from a lake on the south 
slope of Mt. Parnassus to irrigate the olive trees in the valley 
far below the ancient town of Delphi. 

My last official act before leaving Greece was the submission 
of a blistering attack on a plan to force Greece to accept foreign 
ownership and control of the oil refining business. A Greek 

TIME. June 21, 1954 


The Winged Victory of Papou 

For centuries before and after King 
Xerxes camped there with his Persians 
waiting to do battle at Thermopylae in 
480 B.C., the plain of Anthele lay bleached 
and barren. No trees grew to shade its 
parched acres from the relentless Grecian 
sun; no water flowed over the banks of 
the winding Sperchios River to wash 
them clear of salt and alkali. For genera 
tions, no local farmer even bothered to 
put his plow to the 9,000 useless acres of 
the plain, and even those who worked the 
stingy lands on its edge were forced to 
content themselves with only the scantiest 

On a February day in 1949, however, 
an elderly American agricultural expert 
named Walter Eugene Packard drove v out 

$1.50 a day; a small army of American 
tractors and bulldozers moved in to divert 
the course of the Sperchios River. In the 
midst of it all, usually coatless and with 
shirtsleeves rolled high, Walter Packard 
worked side by side with his Greek friend*. 
In a few weeks, the dubious villagers who 
came down each evening at dusk to watch 
work on the newly flooded paddyfields 
were rewarded with the sight of tender 
green shoots reaching skyward. "It was 
like a miracle from the gods," said one 
of them. 

By that time, all the people of Anthele 
plain had come to know Walter Packard 
as "Papou" (Grandfather). Children 
picked wildflowers for him. Church bells 
in all I hi- villages rang when his familiar 
jeep was spotted bumping along the road 
from Athens. Even the road itself was 
renamed Packard in his honor. But Papou 

The Greeks knew what they liked. 

Megaleconomou Photo; 

to Anthele from Athens. As plainly and 
unmistakably American as the prostyle of 
a Midwestern bank, he joined the vil 
lagers for coffee and sweets at the local 
inn and promptly got down to business. 
"Some of us," he told his listeners, "think 
you can grow things on this land of yours. 
Rice, for instance." Torn between skepti 
cism and wonder, the farmers of Anthele 
listened respectfully as Packard went on 
to outline a plan whereby U.S. money 
and Greek labor might be combined to 
test the fertility of the plnin of Anthele. 

From th Godi. The Greek* have lit 
tle (runt in bureaucrat Ir M hrmrx, liut, 
mild n Greek recalling Ihr Incident later, 
"here in thin village, we like what we 
like, mid when we don t like MomethinK, 
we xpeak up. Somehow, we liked the way 
this American spoke to us." 

Some 40 local landowners turned over 
too acres to Packard s project; other vil 
lagers abandoned the idleness of the cof 
fee shops to man picks & shovels for 

Packard was not one to rest on laurels. 
He was busy making plans to turn the 
100 acres of rice into 1,000 and the 1,000 
into 2,000. By last year, his vision and 
enthusiasm had helped the Greeks put 
4,000 acres of the Anthele plain under 
cultivation. For the first time in history 
Greece was able to export rice. The gain to 
the Greek economy on an original U.S. 
overseas-aid investment of $43,000 was 
over $10 million. More important, per 
haps, was the fact that the farmers of 
Anthele for the first time in human mem 
ory were pru.sperouH and Klf-nupporting. 

For a Hro. Lat week, an 7 o-y ear-old 
Walter Packard of Berkeley, Calif, pre 
pared to complete hi* nix-year nimfgnment 
in Greece, the people of Anthele honored 
him an the Greeks have honored their 
heroes for centuries with a marble statue 
in the village square. It was quarried 
from the same stone which went into 
the Parthenon and the Winged Victory 
of Samothrace. 


Packard: government request for a loan to finance the construction of a 
publicly owned oil refinery was turned down by the incoming 
Republican administration. I objected to this action on the 
grounds that we would be doing exactly what the communists had 
said we would do and that we should support the Greek government 
plan. When the loan was refused the Greek government financed 
the construction of a publicly owned and very modern refinery 
with its own funds. But when it should have started operations 
neither the American nor the British oil companies would supply 
the crude oil, thus forcing the Greek government into a compromise. 
Some years later a new refinery was built by a subsidiary of the 
Standard Oil Company, which was vigorously opposed by Prime 
Minister Papandreou, whose son (then the head of the Economics 
Department of the University of California) said it would transfer 
about ten million dollars per year out of the hands of Greek con 
sumers and into the hands of the stockholders of the private Ameri 
can dominated corporation. 

Baum: I was wondering about the involvement of the Americans in the pol 
itical system in Greece. Did the Americans try to stay out of 

Packard: The Americans tried to influence policies and certain types of 
legislation but this was always done at the ministerial level. 
This was particularly true with regard to problems of taxation and 
inflation. There were several prime ministers while I was in 
Greece and they were not always in harmony with what the Mission 
experts thought should be carried out. But, in general, the Greeks 





Packard : 





Packard : 

did follow pretty closely what the American advisors suggested. 
I have heard that the upper classes in Greece are very agile in 
getting out of paying any share of taxes. 

Yes, that is true. The shipping interests were the greatest 


Did you come into contact with those wealthy capitalists? 

No, I didn t. My kind of work wouldn t put me into contact with 

those people. 

Did those people go around socially with any of the Mission people? 

Not very much. There was not much social contact between them. On 

the ambassadorial level, perhaps, yes. I wasn t in contact with them. 

Our social life was mostly our own personal affair -- with American 

and Greek friends. 

You were invited to American Embassy affairs? 

We might be and often were but we were not included on the official 
protocol list. 

How about Greeks? What group of Greeks would you come in contact 
with socially? 

The Greeks T would come in contact with were the technicians. 
The men you worked with? 

Would you mix with them socially? 

Yes, we would be invited to their homes. Sometimes we felt rather 
reluctant to go because we knew that they would have to spend, per 
haps, a whole week s income to get the kind of dinner they thought 
we would enjoy, involving meat. 



Packard: Their pride is great and they wouldn t give us less than they 

thought we expected. 

Farewell to Greece and Final Trip Home, July 1954 

Packard: The feeling that the Greeks had, and we had towards the Greeks 
as well, is pretty well illustrated by what happened when we left. 
We left on a Yugoslav boat to go up the Dalmatian Coast. The 
Americans generally came down to see people off when they were 
leaving. There was no exception here. The boat had a lot of 
Yugoslav beer on ice and they brought that out. We had some bot 
tles of liquor and some hors d oeuvres. The Americans gradually 
left the ship and went to Athens. The Greeks went off later. 
Finally, George Papadopoulos came along. He was an engineer that 
I had worked with and had corresponded with in everything. He came 
up to me and put his arms around me and said, "May I kiss your 
cheeks?" I said, "Of course, George." Tears ran down his face 
and he kissed me on both cheeks and hugged me and went off crying. 
Then John Paleologue came up next and just burst out crying before 
he could see me. He just boo-hooed. And I boo-hooed. (Laughter) 
I couldn t stand it, either. We both stood there crying. It was 
silly, but we did. 

Then Frixos Letsas, who was my assistant, came up there and 
put his arms around me. He said, "Now, we aren t going to be 
parted forever. We ll see each other again." Then they left. That 
illustrates the kind of spirit that animated us. 


Packard: So we finally left Greece on a Yugoslavian freighter. We 
went through the Corinth Canal, then we landed first at Patras 
and took on some Norwegian archaeologists who had been working in 
the Peloponnesus. We then went up to Corfu. We saw a beautiful 
island. It was a place where the Kaiser used to come for his 
winter vacation. His palace is now a tourist attraction. 

In leaving Corfu we had to turn around and go south again 
around the island and out into the Adriatic Sea to avoid going 
within throe miles of the shore of Albania. Albania was a Com 
munist country at odds with Yugoslavia and they would have fired 
on us. We went into each port up the coast until we got to Trieste. 
The most interesting of these stops was the city of Dubrovnik, known 
as the jewel of the Adriatic. At one time it possessed the largest 
merchant marine in the world next to Venice and Portugal. We took 
a streetcar ride up to the ancient walled city and caught some 
thing of the historical atmosphere of the place. The port of 
Fiume, now called Rijeka, provided the greatest excitement. The 
docks were covered with construction material of all sorts and 
great derricks were busy unloading machines and equipment of all 
sorts from ships from all over the world. In contrast, Trieste 
was an abandoned port. The docks were empty and no ships were in 
the harbor. The new port of Rijeka had taken all of the Yugo 
slavian trade leaving the Italian port of Trieste almost aban 
doned. We took a train from Trieste to Naples, stopping off in 
Rome for a visit with friends in the FAO of the U.N. While in 


Packard: Naples we had time to visit Pompeii and the Isle of Capri in 
cluding a visit to the Blue Grotto which you reach by launch 
and enter by a rowboat which takes you to the quiet waters inside 
the grotto where you see the blue bottom in the light of the 
opening. We finally boarded the Constitution for the trip back 
to New York and home. We stayed in New York for a while and I 
received a decoration from a Greek who was in charge of the Greek 

students at Columbia University. 


Packard: The Greek students at Columbia University held a meeting following 

the publicized rice festival and voted to give my husband a decor 
ation in recognition of his work in Greece. 

Packard: The New York Times commented editorially on the work I had been 
doing in Greece, which pleased me greatly. 

Then we went to Washington where I checked out with the State 
Department and made a brief oral report on what I had done. Then 
we were going to go to San Francisco by train, but stopped off in 
Chicago to see Paul Jenkins and I became ill with the same pros 
tate trouble I had had in Bethesda. I flew to Berkeley on the tele 
phoned advice of my doctor from Bethesda, going directly to Alta 
Bates Hospital. After staying there eight days I was surprised to 
receive a bill for $400. I had received medical care before from 
the Army and Navy, including two operations, at no cost to myself. 
This bill rather shocked me. 

While I was in the hospital I had correspondence and telephone 
calls from New York from a young fellow who was writing an article 


Packard: for the Christian Science Monitor. The article appeared with pic 
tures of my work in Greece. This article was shortened for pub 
lication in the Reader s Digest, in February of 1955. The next 
event was going back to Greece for Ed Murrow. 

Baum: This return for Ed Murrow was before your trip to Jamaica? 

Packard: No, it was afterwards. 


JAMAICA, 1955 

Consultant for the Kaiser Company 

Packard: In part as a result of the Reader s Digest article, I was asked 
by the Kaiser Company to go to Jamaica to report on what the com 
pany might do to make the settlers in the area satisfied. The 
company was buying bauxite land and putting people off the land, 
and they were afraid there might be trouble. They wanted me to 
find out how to rehabilitate the land and satisfy the people. I 
went there under that arrangement with no strings attached. When 
I got there I found that the operation of the Kaiser Company in 
Jamaica is under a British Company. The man in charge had a dif 
ferent view of the whole situation, not knowing exactly what I 


wanted to do. It was a little difficult for me, particularly be 
cause their plan was to put the people off the land they had pur 
chased to put cattle on the land to raise beef cattle. They had 
developed a new breed of cattle with breeding stock from India 
which would be tick and fever-free (immune). They were doing a 
very good job developing this new breed, but I found that the 
land would support ten to twenty times as many people if it were 
put back into some crop -- nuts or food crops of various kinds. 
The raising of beef in Jamaica was probably the lowest use of the 
land, from the standpoint of the general welfare. My judgment was 
confirmed in this matter in Washington. 





Haum : 


Why had the Kaiser Company bought that land? Were they going to 
use it for aluminum production? 

Yes. There were whole valleys there filled with bauxite, a kind of 
red iron clay with aluminum content. 

The bauxite 1 is underneath a top layer which is good agricultural 
soil, and tlu-y scrape off the top layer to take out the bauxite. 
Were they just holding this land? 

No, they were developing it. They would dig this land out with 
modern earth-moving equipment, leaving holes sometimes 300 feet 
deep in what had formerly been agricultural land. In valley after 
valley were these pits. They would ship the bauxite to Louisiana 
for refining. 

Were they trying to rehabilitate the soil after that? 
Yes. They thought they might plant mahogany trees in those dug 
out areas. The trees would again be a very low use of the land 
compared with its use for food products. I found out in Washington 
that macadamia nuts would do very well under the prevailing condi 
tions there, and that it might be a very profitable crop. I recom 
mended that they consider putting this land to the use of growing 
food-producing trees which would support a much larger population. 
The report submitted was satisfactory to the Oakland office of the 
Kaiser Company and they were going to have me go back occasionally 
to oversee the work that might be done. But the people in Jamaica 
were so sold on the Idea of raising cattle- that that was the cm! of 


Packard: my contact there. The contact was, for me, very pleasant, and 
the attitude of the Kaiser Company was very constructive. 

Baum: This was the American part of the company. 

Packard: Yes. The British part was very British. There were three com 
panies in Jamaica, Reynolds was one, all of them digging out 
these holes and leaving Jamaica looking like a smallpox case. 
Jamaica is a small island, and there were three giant American 
corporations removing bauxite from it. When the ore was gone 
the source of income for the people would also disappear, so it 
was important to find ways to convert the land to uses which would 
support the maximum number of people. The report went into other 
matters such as irrigation, developing water supplies for the 
southern part of the island, which is dry. 

I was also interested in the birth control program. The 
sister of the manager of the British company was the head of the 
Planned Parenthood Organization in the island and was anxious 
that something be done along those lines. The population was 
growing; health conditions were improving; the death rate was de 
creasing with the result that the island would soon be over- 

Schools were another of my concerns. The school system was 
quite inadequate. 

Baum: Was the birth control program progressing? 

Packard: No, it had not taken hold at all. It was just in the talking stage. 


Packard: It didn t reach the ordinary person. 

Baum: Are the people Catholic? 

Packard: No, they re Episcopalian, members of the Church of England. The 
Reynolds Company hired a local doctor to carry out a birth 
control program. Word of it got to the directors of the com 
pany in a report, and Catholics on the board stopped the program 



Packard: When I got back from Jamaica, Emma and I took a trip to 

northern California. We were coming back into the house when the 
telephone rang. It was the State Department asking me to return 
to Greece to be on one of Ed Murrow s "See it Now" programs to il 
lustrate what the Marshall Plan was doing in Greece. I accepted. 
The next day Mr. Edward R. Murrow sent a man up from Hollywood to 
interview me, to find out if I was photogenic, I suppose. He cal 
led Murrow and everything was arranged. 

Later that same week I left for Washington to pick up my pass 
port to go to New York. The Passport Division of the State Depart 
ment would not give me a passport because they said they had an 
F.B.I, record against me. I told them it had been cleared at a 
hearing, but they replied that they had no record of the hearing. 
I explained the three man hearing that had resulted in my diplo 
matic passport for the balance of the time I was theresix and 
one-half years. Finally, after writing out longhand a statement 
that I was not a Communist and had never been a Communist, and did 
not intend to be ono, they gave me a limited passport for a period 
of three months. I went on to New York and met Ed Murrow and Fred 
Friendly. They were inclined to want to exploit the incident with 
the State Department, but I thought it would be unwise, so they 
didn t do it. I had been through that once and did not want to re 
peat it. 
Baum: They didn t even have their records straight. 



Packard: What is the Bible quotation? "The left hand knoweth not what the 

right hand doeth", and that s the State Department for you. 

Packard: When I was in New York they arranged for the finances of the 
trip and bought a ticket by plane from New York to Athens. I 
was escorted to the plane by Ed Murrow and Fred Friendly, who 
saw me off. In Paris I was escorted around the airport for a few 
hours by two people from CBS. I was met again in Rome by a CBS 
man who got me on the plane for Athens. I had never had so much 
attention paid to me when I was flying for the State Department. 
I didn t receive such attention on the way home. After I had 
finished the job they left me to get home as best I could. 

Baum: Did the State Department have some interest in this trip? 

Packard: No. The project was turned over to CBS. Ed Murrow was in charge, 
and he was not the sort to be dictated to by the State Department. 
They were going to show the spirit of the Marshall Plan and what 
it had done. The State Department had selected the incident in 
Anthili as the most photogenic. 

When 1 arrived in Athens I was met by Bill Downs, who had 
come over from Rome and who directed the shooting of the pictures. 
Another man, McClure, and two assistants operated the machines. We 
went to Lamia and stayed there. Each day we would go out to Anthili 
to take pictures -- 23,000 feet during the time I was there. They 
had a banquet in the plaza with everybody dancing in the streets, 
all of which was shot on film by CBS. 


Packard : 

Packard ; 



The other part of the program, which I consider the most im 
portant work T did in Greece, was the public power program. The 
Public Power Corporation hncl arranged to have the power put into 
the pumping plant down at the rice fields, which was quite an in 
stallation. They carried wires up from the pumping plant to the 
town, a matter of five miles or so, and that night they turned on 
the lights for the first time in the little town of Anthili. They 
had a big light in the plaza that shone beautifully. That was part 
of the show, the consummation of the public power program. 
How long were you there? 

It took about two weeks to get all of the various pictures. 
What was your feeling about the success of the Anthili program? 
It was a year or more later then. 

It was a year later. I was very pleased with it. They had in 
creased the area under cultivation and irrigation appreciably. 
The drainage system was increased. The rice program was suc 
cessful. The village was very much sold on what we were doing. 
It had turned out as successfully as I could have hoped it would. 

The Edward R. Murrow show "See It Now" was nationally broad 
cast in June, 1955. The show was called "Victory at Thermopylae" 
since the village of Anthili is only about five miles from the 
site of the ancient battle grounds of Thermopylae, where there is 
nearby, a modern village of that name. This village also profited 
by the- rice- program in that area nnd made- Mr. Packard nn honorary 
citizen of thc-ir village. 



Packard: We had purchased our first television set that spring, so 

we invited all the family, including a sister-in-law from Pasadena, 
as well as the neighbors on both sides of us who had no TV. It 
was a great thrill for us who had often been in the village. As 
soon as it ended, we put in a call for the New York studio of CBS 
and were lucky enough to catch Mr. Packard before he left with Ed 
Murrow and congratulate them on the fine production. 

The film had the advertising in it of the Kaiser Aluminum 
Company, which paid for the broadcast, mixed through it. We were 
given a copy of this film with the understanding that it would be 
shown without cutting out the advertising. The advertising part 
is interesting and well done, and no one who has seen the film 
has objected to this part of it. I don t know whether or not it 
would be necessary to ask the company -- or maybe CBS -- about 
duplicating the film for the library -- probably not as it has 
been shown many times... I don t know what the life of a film is, 
but so far it seems to be in good condition and probably could be 
copied for the library. I have it now at home boxed in the 
leather mailing case. 

Incidentally, the name Thermopylae means "hot springs". They 
are clearly visible from the main road to the modern village of 
the same name and there are hot baths and facilities provided. 
It is said the springs are radioactive and that when the Germans 
were occupying Greece, the wily Greeks lured the Germans to use the 
baths long and freely, knowing that the radioactive waters would, 
at least, not be good for them! (I can t vouch for this!) 


Invitation to Return in 1966 

Baum: Could we fill in here your recent invitation to go back? 

Packard: This summer, in late May, 1966, I got a call from Los Angeles 

from a man asking if I had been to Greece. He asked if I had any 
pictures of wliat T did there. I told him about the CHS program. 
He said ho was going to Europe to look over the programs and also 
that he would call me when he returned. He didn t tell me who he 
was. When he came back he called again, saying he had been to 
Europe for the State Department to select an example which they 
could picture which would show the spirit of the Marshall Plan 

better than any other. He wrote a letter confirming this. 
Packard: This is the paragraph from the letter: "In my quick tour of the 

Marshall Plan countries, the story of Anthili stands out as per 
haps the best example of the true spirit of the Marshall Plan. 
The people of the village love and respect you, Mr. Packard, and 
all asked me to convey to you their best wishes." 

Baum: Who wrote this letter? 

Packard: Irwin Rosten, who signs himself producer of Wolper Productions. 
They had been hired by the State Department to do this. 

Baum: So you had an invitation to go to Greece again? 

Packard: Yes. They would have provided transportation for Emma, a wheel 
chair, and anything else I could possibly want. But my doctor 
recommended strongly against it, as did doctors at a sanitarium 
in St. Helena, so I was unable to accept. 

Baum: It was a great honor, anyway, to be invited. 

Walter Packard with great- 
grandson William Packard 
Domhoff, Clara s daughter 
Judith s son. April 1966. 

Golden Wedding Anniversary - 1959. 
Photo by Dorothea Lange. 


Packard: Another factor entered into it. I assumed the purpose of the 
picture would be to support the present foreign policy of the 

State Department, which I do not support. 


Packard: Here s a paragraph which says, "A film to be released throughout 

the world on the twentieth anniversary of the Marshall Plan." We 
figured that this was to improve the image- of the United States 
over tlu world in the face of the Vietnam situation. 

Packard: I didn t want to be supporting our present foreign policy, so 1 
wouldn t have gone anyway just on that account. 


Packard: Various matters of family interest occurred at that time. Both of 
my daughters remarried. Emmy Lou married Byron Randall, an artist 
whom she had known for 25 years or so and whose wife had been kil 
led in an automobile accident, just as her husband had been. So 
it was a very natural thing to do. 

Baum: What year was that? 

Packard: That was 1959. Clara married Joel Cof field, who had graduated from 
Cal some time ahead of her. He was a member of an old Napa family, 
which has lived in the valley for three or four generations. 

Baum: Was this Clara s second marriage? 

Packard: Yes, her first marriage broke up when we were in Greece. She came 
over and spent a year with us. Emma and I were able to help both 
of the girls at that time in getting re-established. We financed a 
studio for Emmy Lou in San Francisco. This was some years before 
her second marriage. 



Packard: I think that matter deserves a little more treatment. There was 

a building across the street from the little alley of Water Street 
where she was living. The building, one of those box-like struc 
tures put up solidly but hastily after the earthquake, came up 
for sale. She could see the possibilities of some reconstruction. 
She got an architect to design a three-story structure with two 
apartments above the lower floor, and a two-car parking space, 
off the street, which is quite an asset for San Francisco. It had 
the advantage of being close to transportation, near Fisherman s 
Wharf, and she could and did rent out the lower floor to an en 
gineering draftsman. Then she had a storeroom down there for her 
art supplies. She lived on the second floor and rented out the 
third floor for income. 

Baum: Does Emmy Lou still own that studio? 

Packard: Yes. She and Byron also bought the combined house and gallery in 

Mendocino shortly after they were married and moved up there. 


Packard: It s been an excellent investment because it s down in a desirable 

area and just now the man who rents it is a designer who has just 
given her ;i five-year lease on the whole building. 

Baum: So she doesn t have her studio there any more? 


Packard: No. She s completely moved up to Mendocino for her art work now. 



Opposition to the State Water Plan, November 1960 

Packard: At this time, there was a move to establish a state water 
plan, which would put the state into a bonded indebtedness of 
one billion seven hundred fifty million dollars to build a project 
which I thought should be part of the Central Valley Project under 
the Bureau of Reclamation. But the politicians got together both 
in Sacramento and in Washington and supported this state plan, 
which carried, I think, by a margin of one per cent. I fought 
the plan as much as I could and prepared a mimeographed statement 
for the AFL - CIO, which they were going to send out to all the 
newspapers just before the election for editorial comment. For 
some reason they never sent it out. 

Baum: You opposed that plan? 

Packard: Yes, I did, and I think it was the most serious mistake any governor 
has ever made in California. 

Baum: I remember that was a very difficult election to know which way to 
vote on. 

Packard: Yes. If they had carried through the Central Valley Project, as 

planned by the Bureau of Reclamation, the power problem would have 
been cleared up and they would have had a much better plan. But 
the power companies, together with the large land companies, were 
able to defeat the plan to have the Bureau do it and were able to 
put it under the state. It is very expensive to the state and will 
never be- an satlH factory to tin- r/itc payrrw UH It could have bf-n 


Packard: otherwise. Ultimately I think it will all have to be corrected 
by creating a state power authority, a TVA type body. That is 
the only solution to it, and I thought so at the time. 

The bond issue carried by only one per cent of the voters. 
We tried also to defeat it in the courts. The California State 
Grange carried through a suit to the State Supreme Court, and I 
raised $500 toward the expense of that .suit in an effort to have 
the State Water Plan declared unconstitutional. But that again 
was defeated. The Court ruled against us. 

Then it was a question of dividing the fight for power and 
water into separate categories. I appeared at the convention of 
the California Democratic Council in Bakersfield with a mimeo 
graphed statement on the fundamentals of the power issue and got 
the CDC to support the theory of public power in the state. So 
the Democratic Party was tied into public power as far as policy 
statements were concerned. I then appeared at the hearings in 
Sacramento on the same issue, where there was legislation involving 
the Central Valley Project and the State Water Plan. Again I sub 
mitted reports to the hearing, but again my objective was defeated. 

National Planning Association Meeting in Aspen, Colorado 

Then in 1958 I went to Aspen, Colorado as the guest of the 
National Planning Association. I gave a talk on my ideas of a 
democratic society. I took a train to Denver and there, fortunately, 
I met C. Wright Mills, whom I had wanted to meet. We rode together 


Packard: in a car from there to Aspen and got quite well acquainted. The 
last day we were there they had a standing ovation for me on the 
resolution that I had shown how they might solve their problem 
by democratic means. When C. Wright Mills was asked what he would 
do if ho were President, he said he would"let Packard spend half 
the money now being spent on defense. The following year he would 
let Packard spend half the remaining part." In other words, he 
was quite sold on the idea and in fact supported it in his next 
book. He mentioned the incident and supported my views. 

Baum: What was your plan about, Mr. Packard? 

Packard: It was my philosophy, my total philosophy. This is what I m working 
on now, completing my book. I had articles in various magazines 

and papers, including the Washington Post. 


Packard: That was a pro-and-con article, with Senator Kuchel writing the 

companion piece. 

Power from the Northwest for the Central Valley Project 

Packard: Then I had an automobile accident. I drove through a "Stop" 
sign and was hit by a car and had eleven bones broken. I was 

pretty well smashed up. 


Packard: This was January 29, 1964 

Packard: That put me in the hospital for a couple of months. I could not 

do any work at that time, of course. 
Baum: And it was soon after that that we began these recordings. 


Packard: Then ;\ power issue developed. All the public power from the 
Northwest wns going to be carried down to California for use by 
the California private power pool. None of this would be added 
to the Central Valley Project. So I called a meeting, organized 
an ad hoc committee to oppose this plan. We got committees to 
gether and went to see the Governor. We had representatives from 
all over the state - south, north, and the central area of the 
state. We did get him to Washington to appear at the hearing to 
see that the Central Valley Proiect got some of the power Finally 
we got petitions signed by 1,500 people sent to the President on 
the same issue. We received an allocation of 400,000 kilowatts of 
power from the Northwest to the Central Valley Project, which was 
quite a victory. 

Baum: How did you organize an ad hoc committee? Whom did you get in 
touch with? 

Packard: I got in touch with other people who I knew were interested. 

Baum: Were there other groups that were interested? I suppose the CDC 
was one. 

Packard: Well, they were interested, but as Individuals rather than a group. 
Grace Mac-Donald s California Kami Reporter organization was in 
terested. She and a number of her people attended the meeting. We 
had people from Palo Alto, Santa Clara, Sacramento -- all cities 

which use public power. 


Packard: G.B. Quinn, Master of the California State Grange was there. 

Packard: We had quite an ad hoc committee organized in that way. I just 


Packard: called them together and organized it. They carried this through 
and were successful in getting this allocation. 

Efforts to Convert Berkeley to Public Power, and to Join in 
An Atomic-Powered Steam Plant 

The next move on power was appearing before the Berkeley City 
Council In September, 1965, where T presented the advantages of 
Berkeley s going into the power business and joining with the state 
in a much larger power program. I got unanimous support from the 
city council to make a feasibility study. But the P.G. & E. had an 
evening of equal time to present arguments against it, in mimeo 
graphed form, presented by Allan Sproul, Robert Gordon Sproul s son* 
I prepared a mimeographed reply to that in which I think I answered 
all the questions that could be answered without a feasibility study. 
But the council finally voted unanimously against having a study. 
I never could understand exactly why they reversed themselves. 
The City Manager, John Phillips, seemed to support the plan. 
He did. He supported it all the way through and thought it was a 
good thing to do to save money. Now he s resigned and gone to 
Pasadena, a city that has public power. 

I wondered if that had anything to do with his resignation. 
I don" t know. 

We don t know. Walter s been feeling too ill to talk with him. I 
was hoping he d get a conversation with him before he leaves. 
The second part of that plan I presented to the city was to have a 
large atomic energy plant established in the Delta nren to supply 







Packard: steam power to firm up the hydropower. It was to firm up the 
hydropower from Hetch Hi-tchy so that the- City of San Francisco 
would be free from P.C.M 1 .. control. They would have their own 
source of power to firm up their hydropower. We got the City of 
San Francisco to agree; they were quite enthusiastic about it. 
They said it was exactly what they wanted to do and that they would 
be willing to work with these other people. The State did the same 
thing. The State Department of Water Resources was anxious to go 
ahead with it. The City of Santa Clara had agreed to go along, 
and so had the Regents of the University of California. We were 
very surprised over the Regents, because they came out very 
strongly for it nnd are still willing to go into that kind of ar 
rangement . 

Baum: This was in the cooperation of building a steam power plant. 

Packard: Yes, and the steam power would be generated by atomic energy, at 

least that was the plan. It was to be a breeder-reactor that would 
utilize plutonium rather than the uranium. It was much more ef 
ficient than the plants that the P.G.& E. had planned on. This 
would produce public power, steam power. 

Nnum: It would permit them to use public power? 

Packard: They could use flint to firm up their hyclropower, so they could have 
a complete system just like the P.G.&K. has where they firm up their 
hydropower with steam power. First San Francisco withdrew. The 
Rapid Transit, BART, was quite enthusiastic about it too. It was 
all going through and everyone was enthusiastic. Then BART with- 


Packard: drew after the president of the P.G.&E. along with two other men 
had seen the president of BART who didn t know too much about 
power in the first place. P.G.&E. iust argued them out of it. 
Then there wns political pressure on the Governor. The director 
of power of Snn Frnnclsc-o, James Carr, said that if the Governor 
opposed P.G.&K. that tin- company would crucify him. The Governor 
withdrew, so the State withdrew from that. 

Baum: Carr is head of Public Utilities in San Francisco, isn t he? 

Packard: Yes. 


Packard: The P.G.&E. put on a campaign in San Francisco and Berkeley. 

Baum: Do you have any opinions on how the P.G.&E. defeated your proposal 

in Berkeley? 


Packard: They said in public here in the Berkeley City Council hearing 

that the answer they gave to Mr. Packard s presentation cost them 
$72,000 to prepare. It was a very long, detailed statement ex 
plaining and asking them to write in to the Council, and a great 
many of them did. It was a concerted campaign which must have cost 
them a great deal more money in addition to the $72,000. The 
Berkeley public was not prepared and had no background for the 
idea and it didn t look good on the face of it unless they had had 
a background in the reasons for public power. That was one reason, 
Mrs May (Bernicr May, Berkeley City Councilwoman) explained to us, 
that the City Council changed their minds about It. 

Also they were overwhelmed with the BART subway, which was 
costing a great deal of money at the time, and bond issues coming 



Packard: up for the City of Berkeley. So that to pass even a $15,000 

resolution for the cost of the study seemed expensive. They re 
ceived almost no letters from the public endorsing public owner 
ship. They not hundreds of letters against It. These W-re from 
stockholders of the P.G.c vE. Even a number of people whom I know 
personally who are ordinarily on the liberal side felt that they 
had good service and nothing to complain about. That was their 
attitude. They didn t go into the philosophy of why you do it at 

I was defeated in the power program. 

I noticed you got John R. Ward to write articles about it in the 
Berkeley Gazette. 

I didn t get him to write them; he wrote them himself. 
The articles started out so favorably, the first two, then they 
went over to the P.G.&E. position. 

They ve always supported that sort of thing, the Berkeley Gazette, 

that is. 

It seems like a miracle how you got people interested in this power 

issue. Even though you didn t win you came so close to winning an 

almost impossible battle. 

That s true. 

California Power Users Association 

Baum: How did you gather people together and get so much action going? 
Pneknrd: The nd hoc- commit tec- became n permanent committee. We organized 


Packard : 





Packard: the California Power Users Association and I was elected presi 
dent. From then on I was acting in that capacity and I still 
am, hut 1 must resign now since I can t carry it on. (June, 1966) 
We had a number of young fellows who were very much sold on the 

power issue ;uul willing to spend their time on it and to help me. 


Packard: I think it could be explained in this way: There has not been-- 

since Louis Bartlett was leader of public power, and organized 
the East Bay Municipal Utility District under his administration 
as mayor of Berkeleyany special interest in public power because 
the P.G.&E. has served the whole area efficiently. The philosophy 
of public power hasn t been uppermost for any reason, but there 
have always been a few people more studious of the economics of 
the situation, among them a few people in the CDC. Keith Murray 
has been a political reporter, writing articles for some of the 
Democratic publications. He has been on the CDC and was one of 
the faithful few who worked hard on this committee. They are all 
people employed in other fields. Dr. J.B. Neilands is in the 
Biology Department at the University of California. Charles Smith 
is in public relations and printing. Also, Paul Taylor, Alan Temko, 
Bill Reich, and Keith Murray. 
Baum: Dr. Neilands was the one who worked so hard against the Bodega Bay 

proposal . 


Packard: Yes. The Bodega Bay people, Dave Pesonen for example, was hired 

by the anti Bodega Bay committee to defeat the Bodega Bay plant 
proposed by the P.G.&E. Their successful battle against the P.G.&E. 



Packard: publicized the power issue, at least as far as atomic power goes, 

Dave Pesonen, if he hadn t been spending so much time on his law 
degree, probably would have spent more time on this committee. 

There were a number of other people, like the group down in 
Fresno. Merge Bulbulinn and George Ball is have been a focus for 
this kind of thinking in the Fresno area. They had a little group 
together clown there nnd were easy to unite with. In Palo Alto 
they have had public power for a long time. Frank Duveneck, an 
electrical engineer who lives in Los Altos, was also sold on the 
public power idea and was willing to come up to join the committee. 
The kind of people who were pulled together were all very dedicated 
to the idea and willing to spend time to work for it. 

Baum: Could you tell me about the Faculty Club lunch meetings? Was that 
a method you used? 

Packard: Our committee always met at the Faculty Club. I reserved a special 
room where we would hold the meetings. It attracted a great many 
people nnd made n very nice arrangement. The mere fact that we 
could meet at the Faculty Club added a great deal to it, 

Baum: How often did you do that? 

Packard: About every three weeks, I would estimate. 

Finally the idea spread to the extent that little towns like 
Biggs which already had public power joined as organizations. There was 
$25 membership fee for organizations to join. 

When they had the first all day conference at the Shattuck Hotel 
all of these people attended. At that time they organized a member 
ship list with n yearly individual fee of $5.00. They put out a 



Packard: written pamphlet reporting the proceedings and talks given at that 
meeting. That was compiled out of the thinking and support of* 

these people. 


Packard: A few people gave $100 or whatever they could afford. 

We got the support of the Santa Barbara Oceanview News, the 
paper Collin Miller works on. He strongly supported us in his 
paper, which is Thomas Braden s paper. That was one way we got 
widespread interest. There were about sixty people who paid mem 
bership fees and two or three organizations, like the Biggs city 
council of four people who all came to the annual meeting. 

Packard: I think the controlling factor probably was that Reginald Price of 
the State Department of Water Resources had to find some outlet for 
his power other than the P.G.&E. He had to get a market for his 
power, so the state was very interested in the plan. If we could 
get this big plant going then the state could sell their hydro- 
power from the Feather River Project to that organization and 
sell it to Berkeley. By the way, the Regents had asked for an al 
location of public power for the Berkeley campus, and the P.G.&E. 
had refused to give it to them , that is they refused to wheel the 
power over on the P.G.&E. line from Tracy to the campus. Our as 
sociation contacted the Secretary of the Interior, the Governor, 
and others and finally did get an allocation of 66 megawatts of 
power for the Berkeley campus, which is a very liberal allocation, 
saving them approximately one million dollars per year. That was 
the reason the Regents were for our plan. 



Packard: The P.G.M 1 . has n rule that they don t cut out one area of a city 

and serve it public power. The campus is in the city of Berkeley, 
which is served by the P.C.&E. So they refused to wheel the power 
across from Tracy, costing the taxpayers one million dollars extra 
a year at the time that they re discussing raising the tuition to 
the students, which would approximately balance the money they 
would pay to the P.G.&E. for private power. 

Packard: The saving would be due to the fact that the public power wouldn t 
have to pay federal income tax. The difference between the costs 
of public and private power would have enabled Berkeley to pay off 

the bonds nnd still make a profit. 


Packard: Mrs. Bern ice May said that while she was in sympathy with the philos 
ophy of it herself, they were under such pressure from BART that 
they felt it was not wise to spend that much money. 

Packard: Well, anyway, it was a good fight. I had to drop the fight for 

public power then. Emmy Lou went to Helsinki for the Peace Confer 
ence. When she came back she attended the Afro-Asian Conference in 
Jakarta, representing "Women for Peace", and came back with the flu. 
T got the llu nnd It hit me very badly. I ve been ill ever since 
and have hml to withdraw from nil these things. I had to drop my 
power program because I m not strong enough to go ahead. 


Packard s Book on Economic Philosophy 

Packard: But I do have encouragement from the Pacific Books in Palo 
Alto. They have said that they will publish my book. They are 
coming up this week to go over the manuscript, so I hope we ll 
have my book out within a year. That will be the climax of my 
career because that s what I ve been working on, on and off, for 
many years. 

Baum: What s the title of your book? 

Packard: I don t know. I have several titles. 

Baum: This is a complete economics. 

Packard: Yes. It s a philosophy, not economics so much as a philosophy 

of life. 


Packard: I would say an economic philosophy. 

Packard: It does concern economics very strongly. 

[Added in writing, September 1, 1967, after Mr. Packard s death] 

Baum: Mrs. Packard, could you add a note on the economics book at this 



Packard: As of the above date, nothing further has been done about the pub 
lication of the book. The Pacific Books representative went over 
the copy and agreed to submit it to readers if my husband would 
agree to remove a couple of chapters which he thought better to 
leave out. He agreed to this and two readers finally made their 
reports, which were not very favorable. One man said he thought 
it should be published, but it needed more work done on it. Since 



Packard: Mr. Packard was not able to do this, it stands now as it was at 

that time. 

A grandson-in-law on the University of California at Santa 
Cruz faculty had three copies made of the book. He has hoped to 
possibly publish some selected chapters as articles in an ap 
propriate magazine, but so far, no one has had time to do this 

As to the economic philosophy in back of the book, I believe 
a brief history of how it was started in the first place may be 
of interest at this point. When Mr. Packard started his first 
job after college with the University of California in 1909, the 
job assignment was to make a two-year study of the Imperial Valley 
and of desert agriculture in order to determine if conditions in 
that newly developed irrigated area were unique enough to warrant 
an especial Experiment Station in Imperial Valley, devoted to 
desert agriculture. After due consideration of the report, it was 
decided by the University that a new Experiment Station was desir 
able. So we continued on with the University, living in El Centre, 
while Mr. Packard chose the forty acres for the land at Meloland 
and then proceeded to build the new house, barn, office building 
and a cottage for another employee laborer on this Experiment Sta 
tion. The story of this development and work has been told pre 
viously in this history. 

We lived for seven years there and as the work and ideas de 
veloped, Mr. Packard came to feel that while the gathering of facts 



Packard: was important, it was still more important that the results be 

made known to the grass roots farmer that he was willing to 
use the knowledge for his benefit if it could be distributed to 
him. (1) Fact finding was basic and important, but (2) it was 
still more important to distribute- that knowledge and information 
in an educational way. So when the Farm liureaus were being set up 
in California, he organized the new Imperial Valley Farm Bureau to 
help educate in new techniques which would help farmers to prosper 
and produce more food -- control pests, and the like. 

So the next logical move was to accept the position with the 
University of California as Assistant State Leader of Farm Ad 
visors, with his territory from Berkeley south to the Mexican 
border. The experience here, again at the grass roots, made him 
realize that: (3) s omething in the financial and economic set-up of 
farming was still more basic to a balanced division of profits and 
a decent living for farmers. Banks loaned money for short periods 
and called the loans promptly if payments were not made on time. 
The interest rates were high -- considering the low profits. Some 
thing was askew. 

At that point, the then new theories of Dr. Elwood Mead ap 
peared with the thesis of long term loans for farmers at a lower 
rate of interest than the usual commercial loans to the well- 
established business firms. Since banks could not or would not, 
as the case might be, the State of California was to buy the land 
for a project, help and advise in the development of it and give 



Packard: loans of state money to the new settlers for twenty years with 

a low rate of interest. 

Rather unfortunately for about everyone, this plan was started 
in 1919 at the beginning of the great depression which culminated 
in the disaster of 1929. No one of the planners recognized that 
agriculture in the eastern part of the U.S. was already in distress 
and small farmers were being sold out... They drove west with the 
remnants of their small assets to try for a new start in California- 
followed later by the Oakies and Arkies who were later immortalized 
in the Steinbeck book The Grapes of Wrath. 

As one rather successful settler said, many years later, "The 
Delhi Project was started at the wrong time and had no chance to 
succeed. If it had been started twenty years later when World War II 
needed food production, anyone could have succeeded." It was as 
simple as that. Planners had not yet learned the facts of life. 

The Resettlement Administration was then organized under the 
Roosevelt Administration to try to mop up the mess. Also, the 
National Youth Association (N.Y.A. ) was organized under Aubrey 
Williams to try to give some basic education to the youth in some 
of the backward southern states. Later, while doing a consulting 
job for Mr. Williams, Mr. Packard observed that these young people 
had no real background understanding of the economic structure back 
of the world they had to face in making a living. What they needed, 
was a sort of "kindergarten" course in a simple "Economics Primer" 



Packard: which could bo easily understood by these students. So the sug 
gestion was made that he prepare one for this purpose -- maybe it 
would take a couple of months time. But it proved not to be 
simple at all. But as a project, for that period, it had to be 
given up. But the germ of the idea remained. Baffled and frus 
trated by trying to solve the problem to his own satisfaction, he 
began putting down his ideas on paper. As ideas and conditions 
changed drastically with the coming in of farm tool mechanization, 
so the book must be brought up-to-date to fit conditions. During 
the many years while he was too busy on various jobs to write about 
them, ideas were evolving and when he retired in 1954 he set out 
seriously to finally write the economics primer. Whatever is left 
is the result of those years of pondering and study first hand in 
the field, and in the reading of many books. 

He never stopped working in his mind. When he died, a good 
friend wrote the following tribute: "He was a man of peace and 
vision." Another amended this by saying: "He was a valiant man 
of peace and vision." He had an all too rare quality and ability 
of entering into the lives of the grass roots people with whom he 
was working so they thought of him as a friend who worked along 
with them. This was especially true in Greece with the peasants , who 
were naturally unfamiliar with a foreigner who had come "to do 
them good" -- they had to be convinced, and they were! Their out 
pourings of flowers, gifts of all kinds expressing their love for 
him in many ways, was the final climax of appreciation of a life 



Packard: mostly devoted to trying to make the world a better place for 
human beings to dwell. 




DELHI LAND SETTLEMENT -- newspaper clippings 565 



Greek Committee on Irrigation and Drainage (G.C.I.D.)> Nov. -Dec. , 1966 574 

HOW TO WIN WITH FOREIGN AID, Article by Walter Packard, The Nation. 

April 8, 1961 579 

THE COOPERATIVE CONSUMER, February 15, 1961 582 






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Illinois of Today. 
The Columbia Biographical l>iction 
"iallery of Representative Men of 
Illinois Volume, pages 3&7-3&S. 
Sketches and Portraits of Represe 
Women in December I-^sue of S 

America, page 775. 
Mr. Packard retired from the pi 

I . IO and moved lo Pasadena. Cal. 
reside* at 14:l!t Xorth Los Iloble* Av< 

bard. 111., and has three daughter 


For further information concerning 
Bench and Bar of Illinois. Vol. >. pa 
Industrial Chicago. Vol. ti. pages 24!<- 
Men of Illinois, page 1S5. 

1889. that the territory attained the 
hoodT Mr. Packard is felicitous a 
men*f-thoroughly in earnest, never 
saries. and yet a foe worthy the stee 
opponent. Like his ancestors for r 
\\f -e a tnrt adhe r ent of orthodox 
was married. June 23. 1874. to Clara 

mission of the territory on the gi 
legislature had aided and abetted a 
tion it ought not to be admitted to 
states until purged of this disgra 
and pamphlets, scattered profusely 
of the Union, he created so stron 
favor of his claim that it was fou 
obtain a vote for the admission 
The Dakota delegate informed his 
the bill could not be passed until t 
matter was settled, and advised t 
legislature favorable to payment, 
refunding act was passed in the sp 
the matter was adjusted: but it was 

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r*cessful Men 

ry and Porira 
ie United Stare 

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my generatiol 
Christianity. \ 
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U DAY, JUNE 30, 1917 


More Than 40 Residents of Imper 
ial Countv Meet and Discuss 
Work of Retiring Superintendent 
of Experiment Farm Flowers 
For the Living" S cgan 

3f a 

Seldom does it fall to the 1" 
man to hear so many fine i limits said 
about himself as fell upon (lie far: 1 , 
ef Waller K. Packard last ni.^lit, 
when a bunch of liis l i ad- 

nircrs sal tiered ai a iiamn .et al 
Barbara V. or: h hot.-] ui lionor him 
prior to his departure from ihe val 
ley. Packard will leave in -i few days 
I c" Berkeley, to superintend I lie fa fin 
advisi r work for Central and South 
ern California. 

More than HI valley residents most 
ol whom have known Packard person 
ally and observed his tireless work as 
superintendent of the unuersii.- 
1 eriment farm at Meloland, sat ai the 
least with him and listened to 1iie 
euolo. -iies delivered by ihe speakers. 

[ li.wers Tor the livins," w;is (lie 
; lo^an (il the evening, from the lime 
Toaslmaslcr Phil W. Urooks, close 
niend and neighbor of Paclcar:!, wa.-; 
introduced to the crowd by President 
l.offlus of the County Fan; i!n; 
until the close of the program. Thn-e 
editors, O. K Tout of the Progress. 1C. 
[ . Howe of the Zanjero and Ai. D. 
t,er of the Hrawley News, bl 
Id the excellent work done by Pack 
-ard in the valley and expressed deep 

. at his leaving. The i 
expressed Kironsly, howovor. ti 
his promotion to one of the "h; 
up" posilions, 1 ackard will l>e enabl 
ed to pi ove an e\yn sr-ater u-iend for 
Imperial valley than he has in the 

Those at the table last nipiit were: 

Arthur K. Palmer. Argtle .Mel. a 
i l-laii. 1. 1!. Suryieh, T. Ki iotl. C. I 
Praffenberger, A. M. Nelson, A. 15. 
Miulistm, Mik- U i I .tebert, 

C. H. Connett, Pert .1. Cilv Mrs 
P> Tout, O. H. Tout. \i. I). 
1 . Willis, c. O. lutllis. Dr. L. M. Hurt, 
Pasadena; Mrs. Gr US, Grovor 

I.offtus, VV.iller K. I atkard. PhiMp W. 
R I OOks, K. ! . Howe. Mrs. C. Richani . 
Clifford Kichards, Mrs. F. L. Sill 1 
I Sar:;i-nl, W. U. 1-ienau, Mi s. W. U. 
l.ieiiau. Mrs. O. L. Jani",s. O. L. 
.T.inies. Mrs. P. I. DouKhe iy. Paul J. 
I ouulieriy, Mrs. Orcar Sv.e.-ne.v, Os 
< ar Sweeney, K. li. \ aile, John Ii, 
.;. F. \Vaiei man, I , li. P,o\, man, Ja 
F S. I lowland, Mrs. P. I!. Chrti 
! I!. Christian. I ). C. BitU-r, A. L. 

A Social Delusion 1 / * 

The Delhi land colony in California is a 
failure, Its projector s portrait has been 
hanged as an effigy, the Governor has 
signed a bill appropriating $260,000 to help 
I the settlers and clean up the mess, and it is 
to be hoped that California will take the ad 
vice of the special legislative committee that 
investigated the fiasco and recommended 
that the state never, never get itself entan 
gled in another land colonization scheme. 
The whole thing is regrettable; and what 
the public needs to understand about it is 
that under the conditions the outcome was 

It is not likely that the main mover in the 
project had any other than a patriotic and 
an altruistic motive. But that makes the 
case against this sort of enterprise all the 
stronger. Its failure can not be charged to 
dishonesty of intention, but arose from a 
fallacious theory of society and from accom 
panying delusions about human nature. 

There were misrepresentations. They I 
grow frequently out of idealism, for facts 
are never rosy enough for the idealist. 
Dreamers are hardly to be blamed for fail 
ing to define their dreams, for they love 
them, and hug ttfem, and if they try to limit 
them with precision the dreams vanish.. 
Nor are visionaries to be held accountable 
for falling to employ business methods, 
which seem hard and cold and inhumanly 
calculating. But business methods are just 
those by which business men attempt to 
exclude error and then provide against the 
error they, know still lurks in all their 
prophesies. Business men either would.uQt- 
have attempted this experiment on the 
lands at Delhi, or they would have de 
manded better capitalization on the part of 
the settlers; and knowing something of 
hun^an nature they never would have rep 
resented to them that if they did not make 
good the State of California would see them 
through, for there is no better way to assure 
failure than to supply paternalistic assur 
ance of success. 

The underlying philosophy was wrong. 
This was an excursion into paternalism, or 
state socialism. It. will not work, here or 
anywhere, now or ut any future timn. Men 
need the spur of necessity to drive them to 
their best exertions, and the reward^ of 
private property to keep them "everlastingly 
at it." Telling them the government will 
see them through is the best way to paralyze 
initiative and curtail endeavor. 

Most of the federal government s reclama 
tion schemes are in about the same fix as 
the Delhi colony. Orland, in this state, Is 
said to be the only really successful one. 
They are all off the same bolt of cloth : state 
socialism, thinly disguised. K is better to 
let the individual work out his own salva 
tion, According to the established and time- 
honored American principle of root hog, or 
die.. As for reclaiming the land, it can wait. 
"When business men get around to putting 
water on it because they see a demand for it 
they will do it, and it won t cost the settlers 
any more than socialism has cost the settlers 
at Delhi. 



liy BDWARD 1 . Ill \MS. 

(San Francisco Chronicle.) 

of the press arc 
i illoii/\ I: ii dciium laticin of lliu 
>elhl plate land settlement* In 
Merced rounty Anil of every 
body who has had anything to 
\ l . ; t h It. It may be a \vuk- 
ness. but my nould does yearn to K<> 
to the help of the under dog. Thnt 
Impulse Is strengthened by refer 
ence to the fllen of. thn same press 
a few yearn ago, wherein the nn.inn 
persons worn net high on a pedestal 
HM exemplars oC wise men of noblo 
aehlevoment. Hosldes, It Is a matter 
that I happen to know something 

And lot mo say at the beginning 
that the first time 1 saw the settlo- 
men I was convinced that there 
would He heavy losses for some 
body. 1 was also convinced that In 
the end Delhi would bo a prosper 
ous and happy community, A great 
part of It was an iaroa of drifting 

My belief -was based on the 
fact that Komo years before I hnd 
been employed by the executors of 
a largo New Kngland estate to dis 
cover. If 1 could, and report on the 
HOUTCO of the Irlnh dividends which 
the heirs were receiving. That 
property hud heen nn uroa of drlft- 
IIIK Hiinil luid VWIM MO no longer. The 
noil dlnpljK-iiineiit li.v the wind had 
been stopped. 

It WUH evident to m that the 
Delhi drift could bo stopped by 
the same methods. It costal money, 
but Hand drift was not the* trouble 
In the case which I studied, except 
in BO far as tho cost increased the 
Investment upon which dividends 
were expected. Thero was no ques 
tion in that case of Incompetence 
or dishonesty. Neither Is there at 

I might say, in regard to In 
competence <at Delhi; that those 
necessarily charged with the duty 
of selecting and establishing set 
tlers, while thoroughly competent 
from agricultural and , engineering 
standpoints, were rather too Ideal 
istic for that particular situation, 
and were Impelled to minimize tho 
difficulties to be overcome, and 
magnify. In some cases, tho Com 
petence nnd good will of nomo net- 
tiers. In this they were aided by 
tho locnl and oilier press, which 
loudly prorlnlmi d the great oppor 
tunity which the ntule wax offer- 
In tf. 

1 have a dim reeollortlon of u 
cnnvnmAllon with immnnna In au 
thority telllnir mit that nnn reimon 
for selecting thin tract WH.H to nliow 
that the ntiile could succeed where 

private effort would not venture. If 
that wan the case, which I cannot 
aver, IIH my recollection of the con 
versation Is loo dim, I think U 
should have been made more pro* 
luliicnL But 1 know a great many 
competent and succennful men, and 
I do not think anyone would deny 
that he had made many mistakes. 
There has been a loss and tho state 
must stand It. 

What I protest against Is the 
spirit of hate Injected Into the 
discussion. A certain class of 
real estate men have always op 
posed state Interference. It would 
he easy to find settlements organ 
ized by them with loss to settlers. 
1 can Imagine that political men 
might enjoy magnifying errors of 
their precedessors In political In 

There have been other failures 
and recoveries. The highly pros 
perous Modesto district, not far 
from Delhi, whose low Interest 
bonds can be turned Into cash over 
night any day, went through a re 
organization Involving great losses. 
Why p4ck on Delhi? Why not be 

It nhoiild be remembered that It 
In the mime board which w hold 
renponHlhln for the, "failure" of 
linlht which IM aim) renponNlbln for 
tho triumphantly aucccsnful Dur 
ham colony, about which we hear 
nothing. The following are their 

Klwood Mead, chairman: Morti 
mer Flelshhacker, Prescott P. Cogs 
well, Frank P. Flint, William H. 

It is said that they "paid too 
much" for Delhi land. That Is out 
of my line, but if 1 were setting out 
to cheat somebody on a land deal 
I should hlint for a different bunch. 

The Durham settlement, a few 
miles south of Chlco, has been a 
success from the beginning. Set 
tlers are prospering as individuals 
and have built up a fine community. 

As between Durham and Delhi 
there were these differences: The 
sand drift *t Delhi, of which suf 
ficient has ben said: even more 
Important Is that fact that when 
settlement began ut Durham war 
prices for material and labor ha<l 
hnrdly begun to bo felt, while the 
nelllern got full boom prices /or 
products. The Improvements At 
I elhl were mart" ut thn very top 
of the. boom and thn flrnt productH 
Mold nl the depth of thn Hlump. l,<-i 
UN treat our public, nnrvanti de 
cently. Homo of them may deserve 
II. J,et IIH lake a chance. 

) M;iy I 1 



Reclamation Director Says 
Politics //arms Delhi 

Suggests Governing Board 
Free to Fix Policies 

Says Colony Was Started in 
Unfavorable Conditions 


BERKELEY, May 25. The 
State s land settlement colony >t 
Delhi wag said by Dr. Elwood 
Mead, Federal director of reclama-. 
tion, to be suffering "principally 
from aT political malady and not 
from a natural Illness," in a state 
ment which he ordered released 
for r/ubllcation here today. 

Dr. Mead was formerly Land 
Settlement Commissioner of Cali 
fornia, and In that capacity di 
rected the organization of the Del 
hi colony. 

Gov. TUchardson Issued a state 
ment In Sacramlnto yesterday In 
which he said that "this colony Is 
a monument to the visionary 
schemes and Impractical ideas of 
Elwoorl Mead." 

-- "What i*ttit- ha inrtfred from 
most IH the political changes which 
have made It Impossible to follow 
any definite policy for the develop 
ment of the colony," the . Mead 
stntement said. "California should 
not open up any more land until 
It can provv that it can take caro 
of what it has. The colonization 
project should be removed entire 
ly from politics and should have a. 
governing oarbd which would have 
complete freedom to fix Its policies. 

"There is no question that the 
nttlers at Delhi havo had diffi 
culties, but the men on their own 
farms have had difficulties also. 
The development of Delhi was un 
fortunately begun at an unhappy 
time,, when agricultural interests 
everywhere were In a particularly 
bad condition. 

"It has been said that we picked" 
out a sandy waste for the Delhi 
project. It Is true Delhi was a i 
sandy waste. But what was Tur- 
lock and the surrounding territory 
before their development? It 
amj to mo that ten tons of nl- 
fsjfii to the acre Is a pretty good 
showing for a Handy waste. 

"Among those who claimed that 
things were misrepresented to 
them at Delhi were a number 
who worked on the tract for ft year 
before they took up farms of thtlr^ 
own, and who knew exactly what 
thc^rontl Mons were. , 

"7 h. ive refrained from entering 
Into this before because It lid not 
xeern wise to become entangled In 
.ny jiolltleiil controversy. But I 
feel now that I must make a state 
ment, for two reasons. Klrst, thH 
attack Is doing datnnjfo to thn 
Htate, and secondly, It Is doing 
darnano to me. I am now engaged 
In national reclamation work and j 
the government cannot afford to 
have a man In authority who i* 
attacked by his own Htate, no mat- 
ter what the politics of the case 
might be." * 

Dr. Mead said, further, that th 
legislature of four years ago 
"killed the reclamation hoard, the 
body which had established the 
colony, by putting it under the 



Memorandum to Governor Rexford Tugwell in defense 
of the Land Authority 

January 26, 1946 

MEMORANDUM TO: The Governor 

FROM : V.ulter E- Packard 

The attached statement covers the work of the Land 
Authority in very brief fashion. I en not at all sure 
that it is just what you want. If you need more data, 
you can get it from the letter which I prepared for lr. 
Aoosta Velarde in answer to the Chamber of Commerce s 
article in the Economic Review. A oopy of this letter 
is enclosed. 

Welter . Packard 
Consulting Agricultural Engineer 


2 Inolosures 

d Ltateaent on Land Authority AOtivitlea 
for the Annual Measese to tha Legislature 

. atie factory program la belnfc Mid* In the pur one ae of 
lone! under the yrovieluns of the 1941 Land Law. To data, tba 
Lead Authority hue acquired 39,4fl& aoraa of land formerly la 
corporate holdin&a of taore than ftoo aoraa and la now negotia 
ting for tha purchase of an additional 53,000 aoraa. Together 
thaaa properties aooount for 35% of all unlawful holdings under 
the Aot. lu addition, 15,193 ouardaa of land have been purohss- 
ad by the Land Authority under Title V of tha Land Law. Thla 
lend h.-iB baan dlatrll>utad to 14,607 aftr*adoa in plota averaging 
1.03 ouardna per family. 

It would be umviee, In ny judgaoant, to raova aore rapidly 
than thla, alnoa time Is required to develop the organisation 
needed to operate proper tie a after they have been acquired. 

Tha administration of tha Land Lav by tha Land Authority 
haa fully justified the action of tha Lagialatura in enacting 
thia measure. Tha proportional profit farm plan, oreatad by 
thla Aot aa a means cf enforcing tha 900 acre liaitiation pro- 
Tiaiona of tha Organic Aot a of loo and 1017, ia working wall. 
It proniaaa to ba valuable addition to axiating pattarna of 
land tanure. 

At Caobalaohe, the first property to ba purohaaad under 
tha /ot of 1941, the araa under cultivation in proportional 


profit ferae hes been increased by 37^ sloe* title pasted to 
the Land Authority, and the yield per acre hae been inoreaaed 
by 14.4.* over the preceding five year overuse production under 
private aanaecient . In it a effort to mnxiulae production, the 
Land Authority ia cooperating v.ith the Insular ixperiaent sta 
tion in developing higher yielding varietlea of oane and better 
preotieee In the uee of fertilizer. Both th cultivated area 
and the yield per acre will be increaaed by preaantly planned 
drainage ay a teas on la mis belonging to the Authority In ad 
dition, non-cane land la being put to a higher use than for 
merly. Hill lance suitable for forest production have been 
ceded to the Foreat lervloe for reforestation while limited 
area a auited to the production of minor or op a have been used 
for agregado settlements. Thia ia a gratifying record beoeuse, 
quite obviously, wealth must be created before It can be dis 

It ia in the field of Income diatribution, however, where 
the proportional profit fern idee has demonstrated ita greatest 
effectiveness. The people of Puerto Rico own the land devoted 
to proportional profit faros and have first da lib on the net 
income after all operating coats have .been paid. At present 
they receive 3 Interest on capital equipment and 4.0375$ Interest 
on their invertaant in land and improvements. This money is s 
new source of Insular Government income and, under the provisions 
of the law, is evellable for use by the Land Authority in expand 
ing ita program. After setting aside e reserve for contingencies, 


the rental .ilng profits are paid to field workers and to lea s 
a proportional profits. At Cambal^ohe, these proportional 
profits added an average of 19 to th laborers wage income In 

1944 and an overage of 17% ID 1945. These provisions of the 

distribution of net 
proportional profit farm pattern provide for s wide/Income In 

sharp contrast to thot which obtains where land ownership is 
concentrated in lar^e private holdings and rent, interest, and 
profits are channeled into the hands of a small minority of the 
total population. The proportional profit plan increases the 
purchasing power of e numerous low-income group ana tends to 
lessen the accumulation of Idle funds for which profitable in 
vestment outlets cannot be found. 

I would like to see the proportional profit farm plan 
applied in the mountain aection of Puerto Rico production 
of wealth can be greatly increased through the establlshjasnt 
of e multiple-purpose production program under trained manage 
ment. Declining production and the rapid filling up of 
irrlplaoeable reservoirs by unnecessary erosion make the 
stabilization of the economy of the mountain area essential. 
The proportional profit plan would be well suited for each a 

In my judgement. Title V of the Land Law should be amended 
and considerably strengthened. Providing land alone is not 
enough. A recent survey of opinion of residents of 11 Fangulto 
showed that no agr* gedo now living in tale slum area would 
willingly move back to hie former home in the hills. The 


retsona given are illuminating. They prefer el Fungal to to 
the isolation of their former olroumatonoes beoeuae, et El 
Fanguito they have domestic water service end electric lights, 
which raean radios for eome od because, they enjoy the associa 
tions of village life and are aeer to Job opportunities If 
Title V ie to be fully effective a a social measure, the 
Title V projects must meet these baeio needs. 

If the individual allot/as ate in Title T projeota are 
limited to e quarter of a cuerda each, the Aqueduct Authority 
should be able to au ply pure water for doBeatio use et reason 
able ooet and the Vater Authority should be able to supply power 
at reasonable rates. A compact settlement would, in addition, 
enooux*ptfte community life ami, in ooat oases, would leeaeu the 
dietanoe froa tiieir hones to ti-.elr Jobs. 

By .roper planning, a quarter of a ouerda will produce 
enough to substantially reduce the cost of living. If ztore 
land is needed, however, an additional aoreege might be pro 
vided adjacent to the village where stsple crops oould be 
raised for use in the oon&unity. 

In order to facilitate the development of adequate doaestle 
water supply for Title ? projects, I recommend that the Land 
Authority be empowered to enter into contracts with the Aqueduct 
Authority whereby the Land Authority can meet annual water 
assessments out of proportional profits where the Title V pro* 
Jeots are associated with proportional profit farms. 



Title V la essentially housing program, but little or 
no attantlon has teen paid to housing. The Land Authority 
hot acted visely, I believe, In refusing to meke tile $150 
grants for building materials provided for in the law. The 
ajnount ia not enough to provide adequate housing and the 
grant feature of the law ie, in ay Judgement, undesirable. 
I, therefore, reooaunend that the $.\60 great provlelon be 
withdrawn, and, in ita stead, a new section be added giving 
the Land Authority discretionary power la granting loans for 
housing up to a maximum of 750. 

I believe that the Lane Authority should be empowered 
to uae a portion of the rent or intereat Inoome from pro 
portional profit fara operations for housing on Title ? pro- 
jeote associated with proportional profit feme. It seem* 
logieal to assume that the returns froa the lead ehould pro 
vide housing for those who do the work. If euoh a plan is* 
adopted, contracts oould be entered into with settlers whereby 
e portion of the proportional profits might be uaed by the 
Land Authority in meeting amortisation payments on h-Aises. 
built by the Land Authority or by other agenoies. If the 
law doea not already per alt full cooperation by the Lcfi4 
Authority with Federal Agenole* auoh as the one contemplated 
by the *agoer Kllender Taft Housing Bill, It should be asodd 
to provide for such cooperation. 


BULLETIN of the Greek Committee on Irrigation and Drainage (G.C.I.D.) 
i International Commission on T 

. 25, Nov. - Dec., 1966 





roiui W. PACKARD Ft; ii)v xF.vinixr]v jtla- 
v Avf)r)Xr); (<l>0t(ori6o?). 


Bust of W. PACKARD in the central square of 
the village ANTHILI 


P M \^ # 

v^. v -i 

Ei; to Jit)(n}y<H uFvov TF\X; dvTjYYe^ 1 ! 6 Odvo- 
10; TOO oFiunVittiv W. E. PACKARD, |jtiti]iou 
[iF\ou; ir\- MIvA.A. 

H fift^oi; TOU OUVUTOU TOU fxpOonfv iw~a t^) AeX- 
TI OV niQi o.xfro iao ixn cwooiv. Katnutiv tourou i\ E. 
E.A.A. cboTiouoa (poyov T^JITJ; fig TOV ^xXuiovro, ?)- 
iiooiFi iFi arfuFQOv t xaT(OTF.()<i) u()0()a KOV x.x. Iw- 
dvvou IlaXaioXoyou, FJUTI IHOU Ttv. A)ivrov Tir. TE- 

xal PFWQY. 

, dvTutQOFJ5()ou rT); A.E.A.A. xal FFV. 
; E.E.A.A., lnir(|uou A)vrov "KVt. Fewpyi- 
a;, ol 6^0101 (b; otevoi ouvFiQyoiTai dq>r)yoi5vTai ta 
jiepi rfj; dtioXoyou auaGoXT^ TOU el; ri\v dvareruJjiv 
TIOV p]y^ Fio6A.n(aiixa)v "Epywv xrttct tfjv >6id()XFiav 




TIOV dig avio uoOowv w; iXdx iOTOV oFtyjia dydm^ xal 
Fuyv(i>j*ooi rvTi5 Jipo; TOV uvOguwiov, 6 &nolo; xaucoi 
^ew;, I lycovwOrj, EipyaoiBT) xal F&QarrFV <o; va fetpo- 
XFUO jtepl TTJ; SFVTEDO; TOU naTQibog, otocov OUTW 

), 4jtujTif|[iOvo; xal 

The sad news of pi>.8?ing away of Mr. W. E. 
Packard, Hon. Member G( ll), arrived when the 
N24 igsue of this Bulletin was already under 

In tho present, issue the BulleLin GCID 
presents two articles written in memory of the 
defunct by Messrs. J. Paleologue, Hon. Director 
General, Ministry of Agriculture and Past-Chair 
man GCID and G. Papadopoulos, Hon. Director 
of this very Ministry, Vice-President ICID and 
Secretary-General GCID. 

The authors of tlnse articles were among 
tho closest collaborators of the deceased during 
the 6 years he spent in our country in the capaci 
ty of reclamation Adviser of the American Mis 
sion of Aid to Greece. 

They describe their remembrances and perso 
nal impressions on the outstanding activity 
and contribution of the late W. Packard for the 
promotion of Land Reclamation in Greece. 

The Direction of the ((Bulletin GCID by 
this publication pays an only very small tribute 
to the deceased who loved Greece as his second 
fatherland and wh se attitude and activity 
present a bright example of a humanist, scientist 
and idealist. 


I i. i > i I t ) I 

OFTM/U) ^(ovm; njv ^yorojii) rou (Ma iiaMOTK yia 

<Vl ni v l f(H)()a TO li)")4) TI)V OJTOl uv TOO fOT(tIV oi 

yFcooyoi if);; AvOi i/.i^ (Lio ftixi] TOU; nniOTO&ouXia 
xai UP hixFC TOD; oandvFC, orav rtOCinofjW)? OTI )V M- 
Xtioa, OF EVOFI!;!] F.oyv>noouv)|;;. 

~Ktoi 6 YFOO - PACKAKD, TOV ojmtov oi Av- 
(hi/uwe; wvojiu Cav 7cujr,*tou>>, Oa uvTiX(>i t,ri yia Jiav- 
ta ti ]v rrLmiu rot" XCDOUW UK TO dyuOo TOO fmota- 
,uu, iiF TO 6.1010 uvoiHf xai Oiyruunov; Jiov f\tnv xooji- 
UF VOI OTV)V xunoia T<7>v yrwoyoiv xai OTIJV yfj not) xa? k - 
fiv. <r)u (cioTfXri TO muifioXo, OF aro^a xai FOvT) 
; OTJUFOIVI"^ xai TWV jieMouowv yevfcov, TOO oovro- 


oifjv x<r(ixrrjoi) Ti"i; xuoout; fW; Xa0. 
Ba {CTFvO\i)ii ^r| OTOV; OUVF.XUITF.; im> ?yyou 
(in T fiooXFi iUdiTu no\ % ) P\ )TFI|>F OTTJV IXXrivuxTi yfj 
flu X(T(tVTT|oouv 5i)ooi .-Kiaardoi, .toil 6 X(io; 
waai n* yoaTuXyui, aU awava OF.VOOU, TU 
Oa jduiou.wuv, JIF, noIXa aXXa jtov Ou 


jiooooov, iioxi Oa Flvai eoyov dytbtrj; xai 
; xai nov 66Tjyr 
Qia, OTV]v d^KWtpFJtFia TOU cMoamou 




By JOHN PALEOLOGUE, Past Vice-Cliairmn G.C.I. D., Hon. Director General. Ministry of Ajriculture 

During tlio occupation, of Grooce, in tlio yoars 
1041 - 44, a group of Greek engineers of difforont 
disoiplinos (agricultural, pedological, hydrauli<! 
and mechanic) decided to study the reclamation 
of the saline and alkali soils of the country in an 
integrated way, each one contributing within 
his sphere of competence. These soils, extremely 
rich if ameliorated, and extending over an aron 
of 250.000 acres, were giving very low if no 
yields at all. 

Such a study, additionally to its practical 
interest, would constitute a model of the advanta 
ges of the cooperation of the various specializa 
tions indispensable nowadays for solving agri 
cultural problems. Nevertheless, the realization 
. of the study in question on a big scale seemed 
to bo at that time rather an Utopia. 

The end of the Occupation, during which 
Greeks were thinking and discussing secretoly 
and passionately about the future of their father 
land, meant also the end of the cooperation of 
the engineering world, which apparently started 
to be realized paralloly also in other sectors. 
Tlio result was that, not only the alkali soils study 
was dropped, but also the very valuable minu 
tes and conclusions, of the discussions on nume 
rous technical and economic matters for tin 
development of the national resources; . were 
never drawn from obscurity" unless to serve 
personal ambitims and interests. In Greece tho 
knowledge of the requirements of tho country 
and the means to satisfy them was not missing, 
but it remained latent, as long as no attempt was 
made for a collective enterprise. Already, since 
1929, large reclamation works were realized, with 
the hil p of big American ane English contractors, 
based on studies corresponding to the rather 
inadequate experience on drainage and irrigation 
at that period. Greek technicians of diverse 
disciplines were getting experience and were 
increasing in number. Evan o special Service was 
created to carry on tho work started with the 
foreign firms and to put agronomist*, civil and 

mechanical engineers under tho same roof for . 
closer cooperation. 

The liberation of the country brought .comple 
te independance to everybody; it was an opportu 
nity for the united Service to disintegrate into 
several small units, each one of them following 
different directions, frequently opposite and money 
was spent often regardlets of results. Instead o"f 
a central authority assuming the planning and 
the coordination of the collective efforts of the 
technicians, belonging to the different disciple 
nes, towards the realization of projects of high 
technical pattern and economic efficiency, there 
appeared a continuously increasing number of 
small offices of consulting engineers and contra 
ctors of a very marked single-person nature, 
even when these offices were adopting titles with 
technical terms, historical names or initials. 
And what was worse, any attempt to create 
larger units, even when no personal or professio 
nal interests were involved, was stifled before 

It is well known that disagreement results 
from activities of a large number of narrow 
winded persons being proportionate to their 
inertness and number, and that contrarily 
consolidation and organization can only be achie 
ved by a group of strong personalities and more 
especially in Greece by a single person .of high 
standard, who selects and educates his staff in 
the best possible .way. . > 

A man of that standard, or rather the right 
man at the right moment was made available 
by Providence to serve our country and mostly 
-its rural -population. He came from abroad, 
when the destruction and needs after the war, 
the occupation and the guerrilla fighting, were 
immense, and the State disarticulated, whilst, 
on the other hand, money and technical means . 
were made available in plenty for the reconstru 
ction of the country. Nevertheless, this plenty 
of funds was creating many intentions, that 
might as well, devjate the use of them from stri- 


ctly productive, and highly efficient investments. 
And the man was tho most suitable for the oppor- 
I unity, because ho was richly endowed not only 
with a many - sided education and experience, 
both being essential for I lie responsibilities lie 
had to assume, and sustained by a very solid 
character and integrity, but, also with a vitality 
exceptional for bis age, and a genuine and unli 
mited love for Greece and the Greek farmers. 
All those attributes constituted strong challenge 
for capital, prompt to contribute to the reali 
sation of large scale schemes. This man was 

Ifo graduated as agricultural and land recla 
mation engineer at Iowa Stale University in 
IH07 and took the Master s degree from the 
University of California in Berkeley, whore was 
his last home. Ho worked as superintendent of 
the. Agricultural Experimentation Station in the 
Imperial Valley in 1910- 1917. He served succes 
sively in the Army Education Corps in Franco 
(1919), at the Harvard University and the Mas 
sachusetts Institute of Technology, as an in 
structor of economics, at Mexico, as chief of the 
Mexican Government s National Irrigation Com 
mission (1925-29), in the U.S.A., as National. 
Director of the Rural Resettlement Admini 
stration, when he also played a prominent role 
in farm programs of the Now Deal (1935-38), 
at Puerto Rico, as special consultant to its 
Government and in 1949 lie came to Greece, 
where he worked for six years with the American 
Mission, as Director of Land Reclamation. 

Walter Packard laid emphasis at once on his 
presence in Greece with the rice campain, which 
was connected with the reclamation of the saline 
areas. As battlefield was selected the famous 
narrow pass of Thermopylae, with headquarters 
in the village Anthily (which means flouri- 
shing although it was not). The victory was 
impressive and had a world-wide effect. Increased 
production brcadned tho economic dimensions 
of tho barren area and made of Anthily a really 
flourishing village. The operation was followed 
with more or less equal success in other regions, 
i.e. in the deltas of the larger rivers Axios, Lou- 
dias, Nestos (Macedonia), Acheloos (Western 
Greece) and Louros and Araehthos (Epirus). 
Farmers and oven private enterprises soon joi 
ned the campain in other parts of Greece and 
contributed with their capital and labour. The 
cultivated area with rice increased from 4.000 
acres (prewar) to 55.000 acres (1954) and the 
production respectively from 4.000 to 88.000 
tons of paddy. Even important exports wore achie 
ved as long as the international prices were 

The success was due not only to the close 
cooperation of the Services of tho Ministry of 
Agriculture under the inspired and enthusiastic 
leadership of W. Packard, always accompanied 
and encouraged by his wife* Emma, but also to 

the- mobilisation of the producers, who put aside 
I heir reserves and dissensions and worked with 
much faith, pertinence and persistanco. Tho new 
element that was introduced by W. Packard 
was thai he left, to the farmers the decision for 
starting a project, after having discussed patiently 
with them on the pros and cons arid heard very 
attentively their opinions. It was inconceivable 
to him that, a scheme, however beneficial it might 
be to the farmers, could be commenced without 
their agreement. Therefore, and because results 
never (levied him, ho won with their confidence 
also thir love. 

Tho next concern of provident old Packard 
was the reclamation of I ho lagoons, which, con 
trary to the reclamation of the saline area, could 
not bo carried out without serious studies and 
costly works. It is worth noticing that W. Pa 
ckard wanted this study to start the soonest, 
oven when there were still problems pending 
of paramount emergency. These problems, which 
by no means were to be delayed, were revelant 
to the alimentation of the population, that. suf 
fered during the war and occupation, the resto 
ration of the ruins and the bringing back of the 
production to the prevar levels and possibly 
further increasing it. Anyhow, as far as the under 
sea-level areas are concerned, although the res 
pective master plans were made ready by 1952. 
(t hiy were worked out by tho Dutch firm G RONT 
M1.I Co), till now 800 acres were only reclaimed 
in the region of Messolonghi out of a total area 
of 10.000 acres as a consequence of many efforts, 
against as many difficulties and reactions. 

Likewise, the contribution of Walter Packard 
to the mechanization of the post-war Greek 
agriculture and especially to the equipment of tho 
Mechanical Cultivation Service of the Ministry 
of Agriculture was very noticeable and fruitful. 
Thanks to this heavy up to date field and work 
shop equipment, this Service was able to perform 
a great number of various land reclamation and 
road . building operations, with high efficiency 
sind low cost. Thi value of this equipment, 
including the 32 field repair units, amounted to 
20 million dollars. 

Another achievement, of this great citizen 
of tho United States, originated from his passio 
nate love for Greece and her people and known 
only to a limited number of persons, was the 
creation of the Power Public Corporation. Tho 
humanist W. Packard did not want the money 
of the American people to serve for the enrich 
ment of a private ontoprise; on the contrary, 
ho wanted it to bo a public corporation, so that 
the benefits from the extended use of the ele 
ctricity could be appropriated by the whole of the 
Greek people. And he succoded it through obsti 
nate struggles against tremendous reactions and 
risks, in which, it must be stressed, he had the 
full backing of the official Greek State through 
its Government. 


But a man of vast vision and foresight, like 
\V. Packard, could not, limit his interest in solv 
ing tho immediate problems concerning the survi 
val the Greek people. He could not leave this 
country, which lie loved as a real Creek, without 
hoquestying to it a permanent guarantee, to 
secure that (he agregate of the schemes ho vi 
sualised during his stay in Greece would be 
continued with tho same necessary scientific, 
method and efficiency, and that I ho formers 
would govern them, with the proper admini 
stration, maintenance and operation. For this 
purpose, and after having initiated for tho first 
time in this country the rule of preliminary stu 
dies and master plans, lie formulated the need 
and put forth the basic, features of large Service, 
which should concentrate, under tho authority 
of tho Ministry of Agriculture, tho overall respon 
sibility of the land reclamation works, these 
works being essentially of agricultural nature and 
of vital importance for Greek agriculture and eco 
nomy. Had ho not insisted on incorporating in 
this new sot-up the whole of the forestry, topo 
graphical and settlement Services of Uv) Mini 
stry, a risky undertaking at that period, ho would 
have enyoyed the reward of attending tho inau 
guration of th. Land Reclamation Service (esta 
blished later in 1958), which should -be conside 
red as a product of his thoughts and cares. Ho 
left definitely Greece in 1954, when he payed a 

short visit to his boloved land and the glorious 
village of Anthily, flying from Berkeley of remote 
California, so much recalling him our country. 

The U.S.A. State Department to celebrate 
the 20th anniversary of tho Marshall Plan asked 
Mr. and Mrs. Packard to go to their expense for 
a home-coming in Anthily; but Walter could 
not stand this trip. Sadly, he had to refuse- 
it waji too late I But he did already have the unique 
privilege of paying, for the second time, tribute 
to his own bust, which the grateful farmers 
of Ahthily erected by thiir own initiative and - 
oxpence during his first stay in Greece. 

Thus, W. Packard, named by the Anthiliann 
papou (grand fat her), will be overlooking for 
ever the square of Anthily with his loving smile, 
with which he opened the treasures hidden in 
tho hearts of peasants and the soil they culti 
vate. He will be a symbol for individuals and . 
nations of present and future generations of the 
snorters, surest and less expensive way of winning 
the heart of a nation. He will be a permanent 
reminder to the continuators of his undertakings, 
that the milestones he has implanted into the 
Greek soil, should not stay there as past deeds, 
much regretted of, but constitute a solid link 
for more milestones to mark new achievements 
upon the interminable road towards progress, 
via science, cooperation, man s dignity, love, 
liberty and peace. 

o WALTER PACKARD 01 HstwiPizm 

Yn6 x. r. HAnAAOnOYAOY, -AvurrpoiSpou A.E.A.A., -EniTl|xou A)VTOU "Ynoupy. 

).o; TV); EKAA, ^to evOfQ|io; ojtn^o; TTJ; auveiaiot- 
ouxfj; tola;/ yndqxov tlyt. xara ta xi <>vi **\? 
ovvFoyam a; JAFT* auroxi jrXifurrag FuxaiQia; va 8itt.ii- 
ot<onv| rrooov 6aOF,w; Tjoav oi^wjAFvai i; TTJV ^ux*]v 
TOD ol FVVOIF; tow ouvFQyaTiniuoi) FI; 8Xou; TOU; TO- 
}ifl; Twv xfir)X(!>oF<I)v TOV. Tfoaniiav OTJJMMJUIV cbtF.- 
F, 6 W. PACKARD F.I; TTJV ooyavumiv TWV wcpf- 
x TWV yyao6. soywv aypOTwv El; sioi- 
xov; dpyavi/auov; taiTOVflyovVTa; |5aai tow aQX ^v 
TOV owFoyatwrjiov. ITa^eoTTyiAFv xata ta E.TT] 1948 
1954 el; nXffoTa; ouyxfvtocooEig dyoo twv F.t? TOV; 
; 6 W. PACKARD i\r\yovat (i ^aoav XF,- 
TT^V ovpunoiav rrj; ouvEtaioiotixfi; opya- 
<iuT(T>v hta TT]V dvaVr)i|nv v;i auiwv TOUTWV t(ov 

liF.V<i)V TT); OlOlX^O^o; T(OV F.gY(l)V. 

*H- tiv^fmM\ TOD FI; TTJV aw urTu^iv TOU Of.onou 
T(T>v TOTF AKB fjTo <7TflinvTiacr|. T6 1952 6 yyuqxov 
TOV uxa^niiOiyie ft; jtFOU>J l VFnv rl; BOOFIOV i 
|u: axonov tr)v IOOXKIIV TWV 3io<!)Twv ALKB. 


ii TOU; urtFuOuvov; 
TOV; ojtoiou; ^E rtEujTixiTTpa rtoooEJcdStjoc 6 W. PAC 

KARD va JtoooFTaiQior} F.I; TOV OIEOI^OV TWV autoot- 
oixounievwv OoyavMT.jwov TWV axpE>XounF,va>v ix, TO>V ly- 
yeio6. eoycav T% XfiTovoyovvtaw iiri ouvETaiQUJTixfi; 
6aoEa)s;. Tov f|xoXouOr)aau,E xal l; TTJV wtatOpov EI; 
Ta; ovyxEVTQaxiEt; TV dyQOTrwv 5ia TT)V tSovoiv TWV 
jtgaraDv TQIWV A2EB ntQioyr^c; ix6oXwv TOU A|io{i. 
?JTo TOOOV .jteyaXo (A.Ta|\) TWV dyQOTWv WOTE ^vro; 
Try; auT% ftjAEoa; insTEuxOri f) OTEQxjrfitpuji; TQIWV 
KaTaoTaTuxwv A2EB ujto TWV OIXEIWV FEVLXWV 2)uv- 


OTO; el; TTJV jiE(Uoxilv airTTjv xal Ekrr|yETO 5ia JIQW- 
TTJV cpopdv. 

; Orav 6 W. PACKARD e cpuvf, djro TTJV EUa- 
?>a 6iv ^exo TO; JtnoPArmaTa TWV JYY 610 ^^ 1 * 1 ^^^ 
E*oywv EXiUioo; xal ft; TTJV dXXTjXoYQacpuiv (if.Ta tov 
yydcpovro; jtavroTF. ouvphfai^e Ta noo^XrmaTa xaTa- 
oxF.uT); xal A|iortbifjo(i>; TWV iyy. {f(iy(i>v y, ti\\ ovv- 
FTaiowniXTyv ooydvdxriv T<">V (IxpF^ox^vdW ftia TTJV 01- 
OIXTJOIV TWV ev ^eiTouoyia Eoywv. 

KaT(jL)if(.KO .laodlit .To^iKv iiF.nuxa uovov wioond- 
EX rfj; uXXTjXoypoxpia; 


T.Xx . .v -b T*IXO; Ttr.pxY ,iivdiv to9 A IlxvsXXiStxoO 2 J- 
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"OpYXvia;imv exsi ert(8pi3iv oilx )i* VC)V "vitixY t -< xXXi xxl ti; 

iBviXY,V xXijlXXX XXl XIWTEXzt OY/|J.XVTtx6v XXT6pfldnx. 

IlpxY|ixTixi?i; r.p<ixj;TX . Tttpl WXYJ; TAv ! 

5 >piv. Msii >Xov ,;izp /-/ J I^YJ-Y^:-/ Jnt Iliiii-.d 
Tdiv TI) ( V iviXr,-|iv e JO ivniv XsitvipYfx;, o j 

T.O..K.H.. xal 6ti 6 Bja|i6; O&TO; it 

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MxpTb j !!)<>) . 

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JWiTjiiivY, Tr.Y,pi:j(x KYY- IliXTm iasmv ivti; tofl Tnsu 
rid,p r (x;. 

PZMV 8s;isX(div. 

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v noi uv TFoaoTi av or]U(toi(iv ehivc o AV. 
PACKARD PI; atnov TDI" floor; TU; focbTpabofi; roiv 
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uyoonTjv O(JYvifl|wov Fyy. SFXTiwaFon* Iv 


By G. E. PAPADOPOULOS, Vice - President I.C.I. D., Honor. Director, Ministry of Agriculture 


Tlie article deals with lh activity of the latt; W. E. 
Packard, Hon. Member GCI1), us regards the extension 
of the cooperative ideas in the field of Hits reclamation 

As a fervent adept of llio cooperative movement. 
W. Packard attached {freat importance to the organization 
of the project beneficiaries in special Hoards (Districts), 
operating on democratic basis. He considered the coope 
rative spirit as the prevalent conception for an adequate 
organization of the beneficiaries in order to administrate 

their projects. Such organizations are the most suitable 
to secure a proper Operation and Maintenance of schemes 
placed under the control of the beneficiaries. 

The author further remembers different incidents of 
the activity of W. Packard in this field during his slay 
in Greece as Land Reclamation Adviser to the Gretk 
Government. Finally he presents the texts of the address 
prepared by the late VV. E. Packard for the Second 
All-Greek Congress of Reclamation Districts (TOEV). 
(This Congress, although planned for spring 1966, is 
still pending). 


Article by Walter Packard, The Nation, April 8, 1961 



Till: SPIRIT of President Ken- 
nedy s new approach to our relation 
ship with the people of Latin America 
is refreshing, hut its content: is basi 
cally inadequate. It leaves the most 
meaningful issues untouched: \\lio 
is to own the. industrial resources of 
Latin America: Who is to control 
then use? I he questions arc vital he- 
raiisc the resources involved arc 
Latin America s basic capital. 

At present these resources arc 
owned laigely by the. Stockholders 
of American corporations in paitncr- 
ship with vested interests in Latin 
America the classic capitalist pal- 
tern. Communists favor ownership 
and control by the "workers rind 
peasants" on the syndicalist pattern. 
There is another method of owner 
ship and control: the pattern exem 
plified by the TV A. the Federal Bu 
reau of .Reclamation, the State and 
Federal Forest Services and munici 
pal and other district organization!), 
for instance, or by consumer coopera 
tives of various sorts, such as the 
Inicinational Cooperative Petroleum 
Association (v.hicli has headquarters 
in Kans.iS Cii\. and branches in 
twenty Hi her conn trie,, of the \\oild ). 
1 in HI . .li! thai the |:ist. named of 
these, threr di\i iL cni patterns of col 
lective ownership has been by far the 
fasiest glowing segment of our own 

JIM A / /: A! /;. PACKARD, an <i S ri- 
cultunil rnciniir. lias had a diftin- 
guLilifJ. c-iri i r nd-nrinistcring curious 
rf. t iil . nii iit and reclamation fro/- 
rt ts boiii licrc and abroad (includ 
ing rtu i to A lV j a iii (j recce}. 

dual economy since the. beginning of 
the twentieth century, if military ex 
penditures are not credited to the 
private-profit .segment. 

The evidence is clear that the peo 
ple of Latin America, Africa, the 
Middle Last. Indonesia and coun 
tries ol Asia identify colonialism not 
only with political domination, now 
rapidly passing from the scene, but, 
more meaningfully, with the eco 
nomic exploitations of their indus 
trial potentials by foreign corpora 
tions seeking profits. If the Presi 
dent s program does not meet this 
issue to the satisfaction of the people 
of Latin .America, there is very real 
danger that. Latin America will fol 
low Cuba into the Communist orbit. 

OUR official position with regard 
to the issue posed by the three di 
vergent patterns of collective action 
is strikingly inconsistent. Where <>ur 
policies are governed by the State 
Department s interest HI protecting 
American investments abroad, we. 
Usually support the capitalist, pat 
tern. Where our policies are con 
trolled by agencies of the govern-- 
mrnt whose aims are to promote the 
\\ellare ol I he people of oilier coun 
tries on a basis which serves our in- 
teaMs as well as theirs, we usually 
support public and consumer coop 
erative ownership and control. 

In Greece, for example, where our 
aid program was eminently success 
ful, 85 per cent of our non-military 
aid- was used to finance public and 
consumer cooperanve enterprise. The 
establishment ol :-tjch policies, how 

ever, was not always without con 
flict. Some individuals in the 
nomic Cooperation Administration in 

Greece favored a plan by which a 
large American corporation would 
own and operate the power systems 
that were to be built. This policy 
was supported by, the head of the 
power division of LC A in Washing 
ton, a former \ ice president of a pri 
vately owned poxver system, and by 
his assistant in the Paris office who 
was also a former employee of pri 
vate-power Interests. The man in the 
American Kmbassy in Athens, who 
represented the State. D-.-parMiMU 
policies on power, also supported the 
private-power program. 15m the peo 
ple of Greece, who had been the serfs 
in a feudal oi\kr j;ovi.rned by the 
Turks who owned the land, did not 
want their second most important 
resource owned by the stockholders 
of a foreign corporation to whum 
they would have to pay a never- 
ending tribute. 1 he Greek-American 
Power Committee recommended 
public power. Within <la\s after the 
committee s report reached the Paris 
office, the \j . S. power t- 
aii\e came to Athens to find out 
what \\.is going on. Mis fiisl <|ties- 
1 ion w as "\\ ho w am s public pow t r. " 
I he answer was " I I n: | opl,- of 
Greece want it." His reply was high 
ly (listurbinu: What have tluy to 
say about it? \\ ho s puttirig up th-j 

lo makt a long story >boj-i. the 
piiblic-pVnver policv j^twailed. A 
Public Power Corporal ion , -a i r v tai - 
Jished un ibc I \ A PJM..-III .iiuj ,> 

i h-. i- -.<!:: 

publicly owned and operated power 
network n.w serves all parts of 
Greece; the bonds of the. operating ion demand the highest 
premium on the Greek investment 
market. No single program did as 
much to promote the. democratic in 
terests in Greece as did this public- 

A MORI , dramatic conflict of ide 

ology within our own government 

agencies is presented by the diver 

gent policies we have followed in our 

relationships with the people of 

Puerto Rico and Cuba. When in 189$ 

Congress was debating -the provisions 

of the Organic Act unc cr which 

Puerto Rico was to be governed, a 

videly felt fear was expressed that 

j. S. corporations would own all the 

nluable land in Puerto Rico in the 

shortest possible, time" unless Con- 

cress took steps to prevent it. "If 

such concentration of bowings shall 

>ccome the case." said one Congress-* 

nan, "then the condition of the pop- 

ilation will, 1 believe, be reduced to 

one of absolute servitude. The people 

of Puerto Rico will be driven to cul 

tivate the lands for these corpora 

tions at whatever daily wage they 

choose to pay them." 

Following the passage of the Or- 
canic Act, the lack of effective po 
litical leadership in Puerto Rico, to 
gether with apathy on the part of 
Congress, caused conditions in the. 
sland to grow worse. By 1910. fifty- 
one corporations owned or leased 
240.000 acres of land in violation of 
e law. In addition to this, land 
tel<! by individuals in excess of 500 
acres totaled a little more than twice 
tl\e area illegally held by corpora 
tions. As a result of this and other 
Victors, the living conditions of the 
majority of the people, of Puerto 
Rico reflected the worst fears ex 
pressed by Congress in 1898. 
A completely new spirit was ere- 
Icd in the economic and social at- 
iinsphcre in Puerto Rico by two 
ipplcmcntarv events. The Popular 
arty, under the dynamic leadership 
f Luis Muno/. Matin, came to pow- 
r in Pin-no Rico and the jnrisdic- 
KHI of Puerto Riean affairs, so lat 
s the United States was concerned, tian.slVnul to the Department 
f tile liit.i 1 {<: . 

ipril S, tf-fj 

Tlie policies of the Department 
were conditioned by the character of 
its responsibilities at home. Tlicne 
included the enforcement of the 160- 
aere limitation of the Reclamation 
Act; the administration ol the pub 
lic-power program ol the Bureau of 
Reclamation ( the biggest single pow 
er enterprise in the United States); 
the administration of the Bureau of 
Indian Affairs, with its responsibility 
for a lara;e group of underprivileged 
people; the administration of the 
\VP.\, with its interest in employ 
ment, and the development ol pub- 
lie works; and, finally, its over-all 
responsibility for protecting the pub 
lic interest in the public lands, water 
and mineral resources of the nation. 

Under these conditions, it was 
natural for the Department of the 
Interior to support the Popular 
Party s program. Dr. Rcxford Guy 
Tugwcll, former Administrator of the 
Resettlement Administration and 
former President of the New York 
City Planning Commission, was ap 
pointed as Governor of Puerto Rico. 

ONK OK the first acts of the newly 
established Popular Party was to ini 
tiate an extensive land-reform pro 
gram. Over 40 per cent of the cor 
porate-owned land in Puerto Kieo 
was taken by condemnation pro 
ceedings and was turned over to a 
newly created Land Authority which 
proceeded to grow sugar cane, pine 
apples and the like in somewhat the 
same way that our own Forest Serv 
ice grows trees. This action, more 
over, was upheld bv the Circuit 
Court of Appeals in the United 
Stares, which ruled that the people 
of Puerto Rico had the right to own 
their land if they so wished . A Pub 
lic Power Authority was created to 
take over all power facilities. The 
charter of the Puerto Rico Develop 
ment Company provided that all 
new enterprises were to be publicly 
owned. In accordance with ibis pol 
icy a number of very useful public 
enterprises were established, includ 
ing a cement planl to provide the 
material needed fot road const ruc 
tion and housing, a glass plan! 10 
make bo: ili-.s lur tin. export <! r;m,, 
and a p.ipo 1 factory v, Inch 
wa^.ic materials to make cartons lor 
.shipping the rum bottles. Lxtensivc 


programs of housing, slum clearance 
and school construction were initi 
ated with American aid. Kverythini; 
that could be reasonably done to 
raise the level of living of the r>- . onk: 
of Puerto .Rico was done. 

The fact that some of the policies 
established during Tugwcll s gov 
ernorship were later replaced by the 
policies of the highly subsidized "Op 
eration Bootstrap" m no way lessens 
the significance of the fact that the 
Department of the Interior support 
ed programs of public ownership and 
consumer cooperation. (It is in 
teresting to note that the Puerto 
Rican industrialist who bought the 
publicly-owned cement plant estab 
lished during Tugwell s governorship, 
is now an opponent of both Murio /. 
Mann and the Popular Party.) 

In sharp contrast to these policies 
in Puerto Rico, the State Depart 
ment refused recognition of Grau 
San Martin of Cuba when he over 
threw the viciously corrupt admin 
istration of President Machado. By 
so doing, the State Department 
paved the waj for Batista s rise to 
power. Because Batista was avowed 
ly anti-Communist, the United 
States supplied him with arms and 
ammunition, which he used to main 
tain his corrupt administration. And, 
when Fidel Castro s revolution forced 
Batista to flee, the Stare Depart 
ment, instead of working with Castro 
m an effort to guide his program 
along democratic lines as the Depatt- 
mcnt, instead of working with Castro. 
Muno/ Man n in Puerto Rico, put 
every obstacle in his way. By estab 
lishing an embargo on exports and 
imports vita! to the Cuban economy, 
the State Department made repay 
ments of equities in enterprises taken 
over by the government inlpossfMu 
and forced Cuba to look to Russia 
and China lor trade. 

As a result of these two com rac 
ing policies oi our government, 
Puerto Rico is well on the road to 
ward economic viability on a demo 
cratic pattern, while Cuba has been 
forced into the Communist orbit. 

\VHI.N the pct pli; of Latin Amctii A 
appi.nse .Kir post; ion in Cuba ( wl cu 1 
ahnoM ;is many propli- were k:!ki! 
Under Hansta s iule a*, w^-te !.;! .:! 
in the Hungariuii ie.\o!O J!".l v--;: 



American oil, see-;! and other corpo 
rate interests in virtual control of the 
oil and mineral resources, it is not 
surprising that the landless and 
otherwise disadvantage^ people of 
Latin America should see much to 
their liking in Castro s revolution. 

Two fundamental facts must he 
roeogm/ed if the President s program 
el aid to Latin Ameriea is tu lie ci- 

/. \Vc in the United Stales \\ill he 
increasingly dependent upon the oil 
and mineral resources cf Latin Amer 
ica. Although \ve represent less than 
7 per cent of the world s population, 
we are consuming nearly half of the 
world s production of industrial raw 
materials. If \ve do nothing to lower 
our birth rate, \ve will have a popu 
lation of over 500 million within the 
lifetime ot many now living and our 
presently easily acquired, indige 
nous raw materials eventually vill 
be gone and we will be in competi 
tion with other industriali/cd and 
industrializing nations for access to 
the. remaining oil and mineral re 
serves outside of our boundaries. 

2. Latin America, in sharp con 
trast, is at the threshold of a great 
period of industrial development. Its 
natural resources arc its basic capital. 
These reserves must provide not only 
the raw materials to be used in the 
incUistnal development programs of 
Latin America, but must be the 
source of the investment capital 
needed to finance these programs. 

Our need for raw materials and 
Latin America s need for invest 
ment capital are complementary. If 
our policies and the policies of the 
people of Latin America are. based 
upon the acceptance of imlustriali/,a- 
licui as a means of increasing the 
carrying capacity of the resomves of 
the world in trims of happy, healthy 
and industrious people, rather than 
as a .means of aggrandizement lor 
the few, a mutually beneficial re 
lationship can be established. Un 
der these conditions, we would get 
the raw materials we need and the 
people of Latin America would get 
the capital investment they must 
h."i\v to drvelop their own industries. 

3t, on the other l. the United 
States continue-:, to support a grow 
ing ownership and control of the re 
sources of Latin America by Ameri 

can corporate interests, the Ameri 
can corporations will get the raw 
materials they need, the stockholders 
will get the profits they want 
profits which are badly needed as 
investment capital by the people of 
Latin America - - and the taxpayers 
of the United States, who, as con 
sumers, supply the corporate profits, 
will be called upon to provide aid 
for the schools, highways and other 
non-profit enterprises as a peace ol- 
fcring in support of the right of 
American corporations to exploit the 
resources of Latin America. 

Aid should be given in liberal 
amounts. J5nt this aid should be 
used, in large part, in developing the 
ability of the people of Latin Amer 
ica to finance and control their own 
industrial potential. 

Democracy, when properly inter 
preted, is the soundest and most 
dynamic concept so far devised. Cap 
italism and democracy arc not syn 
onymous terms. Democracy, in prin 
ciple, envisages a soeial order in 
which both sovereignty and the own 
ership and control of the common 
sources of supply and means of live- 
lihood are the prerogatives of "\Ve, 
the people." We and the people of 
other Western democracies are the 
principal exponents of both econo 
mic and political democracy. If \vc 
and they employ the public and con 
sumer cooperative segment of our 
own dual economies in our relation 
ship with the people of Latin Amer 
ica and other similar areas, democ 
racy will "bury" communism in all 
uncommitted areas of the world. 


l!!*faH 1511 is 

"*H J JF&!P*1] 1*1 

^lilflslll^lSg Psl! *S& 



sg illala ^ 


a a 

M J 


Walter B. Packard 

Mayor Jof-rson and Members of the Berkeley City Council: 

I have been asked to discuss the issues involved in the following 
questions: "(l) Should Berkeley own ite own pover distribution system? 
(2) Should Berkeley buy its power from the Bureau of Reclamation, or from 
some other public agency able to supply pover at comparable rates? Berkeley 
does neither of these now. The Pacific Gas and Electric Company owns the 
distribution system and supplies the power. 

At the beginning I wish to dispose of two largely semantic factors 
which often confuse the issue. One concerns "the interpretation of the term 
"public vs. private." Power distribution is a natural monopoly that can be 
owned by either of two corporate entities . The system in Berkeley is now 
owned by the stockholders of the Pacific Gas and Electric Company. If the 
system were publicly owned, it would be the property of the people of Berkeley 
who, as individuals, are just as "private" as are the stockholders of the 
P. G. & E. We are called public because we, as the sum total of all private 
individuals in Berkeley, are the public, while the stockholders are not. 
They are a minority, a small proportion of those who live in Berkeley. From 
an ideological standpoint both systems represent collective action. Each 
group gets Its franchise from the State. Each group acts In Its own Interest. 

There is nothing new or sinister about owning our own power 
system. We already own the building in which we are meeting; the streets 
and sidewalks ve used in getting here; the system which supplies us with 
the water we use. We also own the schools and libraries which serve our 
needs. We, and others in the State, own the University of California which 
adds luster and distinction to our town and State. Why not add a consumer- 
owned pover system to this list of public enterprises? 

A common statement that is often used to confuse the issue is 
that a public power system does not pay taxes. The answer to this criticism 
is that the power users pay the tax whether it is public or private. For 
example, the P.G.&E., as a corporation, paid $1^7,595.76 in property taxes 
and $103,837-73 in franchise taxes to the City of Berkeley in 1964. But 
this was not paid by the stockholders of the P.G.&E. who own the system. The 
money was paid by you and me in the rates we were charged for the energy we 
used. If we owned the system, we could choose to do the same thing. We 
could contribute a like sum to the city in lieu of taxes. Some cities which 
won their own power systems do this. Others do not. Msst of them follow 
both policies, --that is, --have some of the income they get as owners of the 
system passed on to consumers in lower rates and use some for civic improve 

The primary issue in the controversy over who should own the 
power system of Berkeley concerns the distribution of the profits which are, 
in principle, the incomes to enterprise, ownership and control. The money 
representing those incomes under P.G.&E. ownership, is paid out by all power 
users in Berkeley in the rates they are charged for power and is channeled 

- 2 - 

into the hands of the stockholders of the P.G.&E., very few of vhom, 
as previously stated, live in Berkeley. If we, the consumers of 
power in Berkeley, owned the system, the same amount of money, in 
principle, could be passed back to us in lower rates. This would 
automatically increase the purchasing power of the take home pay of 
all labor. Based upon a conservative estimate of the present value 
of the physical property in Berkeley, which cowes to about $15,000,000. 
and upon other factors, it is reasonable to assume that Berkeley could 
save $1,000,000. per year or perhaps as much as Palo Alto s saving of 
$1, 914,000. from owning its own system. Half of the saving would be 
immediate because Municipal bonds could be sold in the neighborhood 
at yf>, while P.G.&E. is allowed a profit of 6$. When the bonds are 
retired the city would own the system and enjoy the total saving. 
In addition it is reasonable to assume that the City can make another 
$1,500,000. to $3,000,000. by buying power from the Bureau of Reclamation 
or from a publically-ovned atomic energy plant, discussed later on. 

That such savings are possible is evidenced by the 
following examples: 

Over the five year period from 1956 "to 1960, the con 
sumers of power in the Sacramento Municipal Utility District, which 
owns its own distribution system and buys power from the Bureau of 
Reclamation at a cost of 4.15 mill per kilowatt hour (see footnote #1), 
save $24,731,000. or an average saving of $4,860,000. per year as 
compared with what they would have had to pay if they had purchased 
power from the P.G.&E. at rates charged to other cities of comparable 

Palo Alto has also owned its electric distribution system 
for many years. In the fiscal year, 1963-64, the net electric revenue, 
after paying $266,358. into the general fund in lieu of taxes, was 
$1,914,663. just from the ownership of its own distribution system. 
An additional annual saving of $1,050,000. was made during the same 
fiscal year through the recently implemented contract with the Bureau 
of Reclamation. The City Managers office write that "a major portion 
of these savings has been returned directly to the consumers in the 
form of lower rates. The balance of the funds are designated for 
system improvement and undergrounding existing overhead installations. 

Santa Clara, in like manner, owns its own distribution 
system and will make an estimated saving of over $1,000,000. per year 
by buying power from the Bureau of Reclamation at a rate of 4.33 mills 
per kwh as compared to the rate of 7.25 mills per kwh now charged by 
the P.G.&E. 

The City of Alameda saves about $900,000. by owning its 
own distribution system although buying power from the P.G.&E. 

Ukiah, a relatively small city, saves in the neighborhood 
of a quarter of a million dollars per year through their ownership of 
their distribution system. 

Footnote #1: From a letter dated August 1, 1965, from William J. Nolan, 
Actins General Manager of SMUD. 

- 3 - 

The Regents of the University of California have already 
made an annual saving of $137,300. by buying power from the Bureau of 
Reclamation for the Davis Campus. This sum is much less than the savings 
which the Regents hope to make "by buying power for the Berkeley Campus 
from the Bureau system. 

R. W. Beck and Associates, who made a study of the power needs 
of the Berkeley Campus, reported in part as follows: 

"The purchase of a block of approximately 38; 000 kilowatts 
of power from the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation under USER 
rate schedules available to preference customers in the 
area, will result in a minimum saving of approximately 
$4,000,000. during the nine year period studied. During 
such period, the University will have acquired a trans 
mission facility valued at approximately $4,000,000. 
interconnecting the Berkeley Campus with the Federal 
Transmission system." 

"If additional Federal power becomes available through 
the construction of new projects in California or through 
interconnections with other areas, such as the proposed 
Pacific Northwest -Southwest Intertie additional savings 
on the order of $800,000. per year may be realized beyond 
1972." (see Footnote #2) 

Since the Beck report was submitted to the Regents the 
Berkeley Campus has beer, allocated 66,000 kilowatts of power by the 
Secretary of the Interior. This is nearly twice the power estimate 
used in the Beck report and substantially increases the possibility 
of savings . 

It should be kept in mind that all of the savings above 
mentioned will increase each year with the growth of the energy load. 
None of these cities wishes to return to P.G.&E. ownership. 

These same general facts apply from coast to coast. The 
low cost power areas in the United States are where public power dominates. 

In view of these facts, I ernestly urge that the City Council 
of Berkeley give serious consideration (l) to acquiring ownership of the 
P.G.&E. system within the city limits and (2) to join with others in 
searching for new sources of low cost power including a study of the 
desirability of establishing a large publicly-owned nuclear plant in 
the Delta area* 

The first of these recommendations can be implemented through 
the procedures already established in the Berkeley City Ordinance #3Vf4 
entitled, "Purchase by City," which says: 

"This franchise shall at all times be held and exercised 
by Grantee (the P.G.&E.) subject to the right of the city 

Footnote #2: From conclusions of Preliminary Feasibility Report on 
Electric Power Generation for the University of California by 
R. W, Beck & Associates, dated Deceuber, 1962. 

to purchase by voluntary agreement with Grantee or by 
condemnation, so much of the electric property of the 
Grantee located within the limits of the city as the 
city may elect." 

The second recourreudation is far more complex in its rami 
fications and far more fundamental in its implications . 

The 1962 Task Force Report of the Department of the Interior 
predicts that the power load in Northern California will double by 1970 
and will double again by 1965. This means that the power load in Northern 
California, twenty years hence , will be four times what it was in 1962. 

The first problem this estimate creates is an amplification 
of the problem of ownership we face in Berkeley. If this anticipated 
increase in the power load in Northern California materializes and the 
rate of profit to the F.G.&E. remains the same as now, the stockholders 
of the F.G.&E. will be getting the neighborhood of $ 500,000,000. per year 
if they own the increased power facilities . In principle, under public 
ownership that half billion dollars per year would be passed on to ail 
power users in lower rates which, as previously pointed out, would auto 
matically increase the real wages of all labor. It would also provide a 
double barreled gun to use in the war on poverty. 

Two factors illustrate the nature of this ownership issue: 

(1) The fundamental importance of having the income from the 
ownership cf power passed on to the consumer-labor majority rather than 
being concentrated in the hands of the stockholders of the F.G.&E. is 
highlighted by the fact that:, with every advance in automation and cyber 
nation non-human sources of energy replace labor energy in ever expanding 
fields. In this process the ownership of the used energy passes out of 
the hands of labor and goes to the owners of the new energy. Only through 
public ownership can all labor regain the incomes from ownership they 
have lost. 

(2) When peace comes,- as it eventually must, defense 

spending will have to te replaced by a vast increase in peacetime public 
spending which will have to rest on mass buying power, including a re 
capture of rents and royalties from socially created land values which 
have passed hundreds of billions of dollars in taxable land values into 
the hands of a land owning minority. 

This is neither the time nor the place to analyze these two 
factors in detail. But it is important to point to the related significance 
of a second fact revealed by the Task Force .Report. It predicts that 70 per 
cent of new power load in Northern California will corr.e from thermal plants . 
The Atomic Energy Commission,, in its turn, believes that all large new 
thermal plants will be fueled by atomic energy rather than by fossil 
fuels. This introduces to new factors-:- 

One concerns the extent of the demand for power. And no 
report could dramatize the nature of this need more convincingly than 
that presented by the authors of "The Next Hundred Years, "--all of whom 
are scientists of the California Institute of Technology. They say that 

- 5 - 

the easily acquired industrial raw materials which now feeds the production 
lines of industry, will be gone or greatly depleted within the lifetime of 
many now living. But they say, too, that ve and all the peoples of the world 
can get the raw materials we need from the sea, the air, and the soil and 

What then, are the facts about the energy supply? The Atomic 
Energy Commission, headed by Dr. Glen Seaborg, one time Chancellor of the 
University of California says in the 1962 report to the President: 

"Comparison of the estimate of fossil fuel resources with 
projections of the rapidly increasing rate of energy con 
sumption predicts that, if no additional forms of energy 
were utilized, we would exhaust our readily available low 
cost, fossil fuels in a century or less and our presently 
visualised supply in about another century." 

So, within a short period about equal to the period that has elapsed since 
the beginning of the Industrial Revolution- -we and all the world will be 
dependent very largely upon the kinetic energy of falling water including 
the force of the tides, ths energy of the sun s rays acting through the 
process of photosynthesis and the pent-up energy of the atom as our pri 
mary sources of energy. No figment of a sane imagination could assume that 
these sources of energy should be owned by the few at the expense of the 

These developing circumstances provide a basis for ampli 
fying my second recommendation by urging that Berkeley join with the 
Board of Regents of the University of California, the State Department 
of Water Resources, the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation and the cities of 
Santa Clara, Palo Alto, and Alameda, each of which own their own distri 
bution systems, in a study of the desirability of establishing a $00,000 
killowatt atomic energy plant in the Delta area to serve as a yardstick 
in the atomic energy field. 

That the use of nuclear power would result in large savings 
is indicated by the following quotation from the 1962 report of the Atomic 
Energy Commission to the President: 

"Under conservation cost assumptions, it is estimated that 
by the end of the century the projected use of nuclear 
power would result in cumulative savings in generation 
costs of about $30 billions. The annual savings would be 
between $*( and $5 billion." 

The measure of the differential in rates is provided by a 
report to the State Department of Water Resources which says that nuclear 
energy can be developed for use in the State Water Plan for as low as 
2.9 mills per kwh which is lower than any but the power from the most 
favorably located hydro plant. 

The cost of a preliminary study of the kind that I have in 
mind would cost from $25,000 to $35,000 to be divided among the co 
operating agencies . 

- 6 - 

That this is not a novel suggestion is shewn by the 
folloving quote from the report of the R. W. Beck & Associates to 
the Board of Regents: 

"A definite analysis of the possible development of 
nuclear power generation, must be undertaken in close 
coordination with the Atomic Energy Commission ard 
other regulatory agencies and must reflect conditions 
and criteria which are beyond tlie scope of this pre 
liminary study. In addition, the nuclear pl?=nt does 
not lend itself readily to small units which could be 
accomodated into a plan of firm power supply for the 
loads contemplated herein, but rather should be inte 
grated into a larger system which can supply the 
necessary reserve capacity and can allow the nuclear 
plant to be operated at a high plant factor , " 

The suggestion I have made regarding the nuclear plant 
would provide the means of integrating the Berkeley Campus needs "into 
a larger system" as suggested by the Beck report to the Board of Regents , 

I make no apology for presenting the power issue ia 
Berkeley in the context of this broader horizon. It is my belief 
that one of the causes of the social and economic problems which 
are giving us trouble at home and abroad is that we do not see the 
full picture in perspective. 

Thank you for your courtesy in hearing me. 


Walter E. 
Packard Dies 

\\ at <j r E. l j uck*ml, nn 
oni. iiH-tv who dedicated his 
;.*nl skills to lie better- 
incut of niHii, died >csU*r- 
tiny at hU Berkeley home. 
I ! \\ as (tot. 

He was a man who put the 
tools of this century to work 
to build the enduring monu 
ment of a better life in Cali 
fornia s Imperial Volley, in 
Mexico. Venezuela and. per 
il a p s most significantly, in 
ullages of Greece where he 
created harvests of abun-j 
dance where only hunger had : 
\\ alked before. 

Mr. Pard achieved interna- 1 
tionai acclaim as an agricul 
tural and reclamation engi 
neer. His work predated the 
Peace Corps by decades but 
undoubtedly influenced H. 


A native of Oak Park, 111.. 
Mi-. Paackard took his de 
gree In grlculutnrtl *iw 
at Iowa State University in 
. 1907 and his master s from 
I the University of California 
I at Berkeley two years later. 
After serving as a field agent 
for a Federal Irrigation in 
vestigation, be became su 
perintendent of the UC Agri- ; 
i- u t tural Experimentation j 
Station in the Imperial Val-; 
lev in 1910. serving there un 
til 1917. His work pioneered 
tlie introduction of successful 
(arming in that desert re 

\fter ser v ice with the 
Army Education Corps in 
France in 191. h* wen* to 
Harvard University M an in 
structor in economics, also 
teaching the same subject at 
Massachusetts Institute of 


Krom 1926 to IW9. he 

>erved as chief of the Mexi- 

can Government s National , 

Irrigation Commission. Inj 

the 1930s, he played a promi-i 

nent role in the farm pro- 

orams of the Xe\v Deal, and 

a one colleague put it. tie 

remained an ardent Ne\v 

Dealer all hi* life " He was 

national diiector oi the Rural 

Resettlement Administration 

i- i-cewed witli the problem* 

oi tlic tenant tanner, trmn 


2, 1966 



World monuments 

Krom 1945 to 1947. he 
served as special consultant 
to Governor Rextord Tugwell , 
of Puerto Rico on land and, 
irrigation problems there. 

After World War II, he 
went to Greece to serve as; 
consultant and director of nu 
merous Marshal Plan pro- . 
grams. Enlisting the cooper- j 
ative help of v i 1 1 a a ers. he! 
achieved what was an agrl-J 
cultural miracle In that 
war -torn land. His crops | 
were of such abundance that 
Greece spent $225 million per 
annum less on food Imports, 
in I"x1 than It did in 1948 

He reclaimed swamplands 
and undertook Irrigation pro- 
j e c t s. Rice production In 
creased 1200 per cent and be- j 
, came an export crop instead j 
j oi an i m p o r t e d one. "Just 
giving money to governments 
won t do it," he told a Chror 
icle i n t e r v i e w e r in 1954. j 
Jusl advice won t do either. | 
You need tractors and other | 
things that cost money. ; 
You ve got to take the tech- 1 
n i H u e s and the machinery 
out Into the field and then 
you ll gel something accom 

Grateful villagers of An- 
thlle erected a bust ai a me- 
m o r I a 1 of Packard s work. 
Some suy that it Is the only 
statue in all of Greece depict- 
ing a hero with a bow tie. 

Slsce return from Greece 
in l54. Mr. Packard had 
campaigned for public power 
and had worked on books 
about his philosophies and 
works. He died at noon yes 
terday surrounded to mem 
bers of his family. 


Ht w a- a m ni b e r 01 
Aim-rican Sucien ot. Agricul 
tural Engineer^ American 
Farm F.c"numic ,A s ci a- 

Sent by Marshall Plan to 
Reclaim Greek Lands 


BERKELEY, Calif., Nov. i - 

Waiter Eugene Packard, in 

agricultural mf lnr, who trans- 

formed thmiwndi of barren 

acres In Greece Into productive 

land, and helped that country 

tart a 13-year oil reclamation 

rogram. died yeit*rdy. H* 

as 82 years old. 

Sent by Marshall PUn 
In 1948. Mr. Packard went on 
Marshall Plan mission to 
Greece, where he was chief of 
he land reclamation unit of the 
Economic Cooperation Admlnls- 
ratlon for six yean. 

He began his dramatic rec- 
amatlon project in 1949 In 
Anthele, a poor community 
north of Athens on the edge of 
a salt plain. 

The plain was bleached and 
barren in 410 B. C. when Kini 
Xerxes of the Persian* camped 
there before storming Thermop 
ylae. For centuries no loca 
armer bothered to plow the 
sterll* plain, and those wh 
worked tht fringe land! got 
only scanty yields. 

Mr. Packard called a meetlnj 
of Antheie farmer* In the 
lag* coffeehouse. A warm 
friendly man, he won their Ilk 
ing with hl smiles and panto 
mime. Through an Interpret* 
he told them: 

"Some of us think you can 
grow things on this lead of 
yours. Rice, for instance." 

He outlined a plan under 
which the American misslo 
would provide money and ma 
chines for Greek labor. 

The villagers liked the way h 
spoke- to them; 40 landowners 
lent him 100 acres to test his 
project; other villagers manned 
picks and shovels; a host of 
American tractors and bull 
dozers diverted the course of 
the winding Sperchlos River to 
wash the flats clear of salt and 

alkali- _ 

With Sleeves rolled up, Mr. 
Packard worked side by side 
with his Greek friends, bulldlnff 
rectangular rict paddles. Seed 
ric* imported from Italy was 
spread by hand. By early sum 

Tht !ttw Yrt TMn. MM 

Walter Eugesw Packard 

tlon, Beta Theta PI. Alpha 
Zeta and the Commonwealth 
Club of .California. 

S u r v i v I n g are nil wife, 
Emma, of the family home, 
773 Cragmont avenue. Berke- 
ley: two daughters. Clara 
CoffieW of Napa and Emmy 
Lou Randall of Mendocino: 
two grandchildren and three 

A private memorial serv 
ice is pending. 

At death. Mr. Packard uas 
active in tin. 1 f idiiurnia Pow 
er I st-rs \>-uciation. which 

erthe amased _ 
emerald patch in the middle of! 
chalky-white wastes. In 
September the field was heavy 
with rice. 

Mr. Packard became the hem 
Anthele. They called him 
Papou" ("Grandfather";; chll- 
i picked wildflowers (or 
m; church bells rang when 
Is familiar jeep bttmped along 
he road up from Athens. They, 
lamed the road after him. 

Mr. Packard dtd not rest on 1 
bis laurels. IMs lim nttmm t 
Ions produced more rice and 
other crops. In ltS3 for the 
irst time Greece was able to 
export rice W -million wort*.; 
When he cam* to Greece, aftei 
mported SS-milllon worth ofi 

Honored With .Status 

When Mr. Packard left 
Ireece In 1954, the people of 
Anthele erected a marble 
Statue to him in the village 

In 1948 Greece imported 
1167-mluion worth of food. I 
1953 she imported 1*0-1 mlBi* 
worth, includtar faf*r and corf- 

Asked in 1*54 if he planned 
to go back to Greece, Mr. Pack- 
am said no. his work was done. 
"And I don t expect to see 
that statue again." he said with 
a Smile. "It s a wonderful 
thing -but It gives you a funny 

Mr. Packard had also xerved 
,<rti re lamntlon and Irrigation 
proln-U in Wrxtrn, Pi>trl tttf i 
and VrnzuU. 

He was bow M Oak *"** 
III , and studied at 1"** **** 
(College, the University of CaH^ 
fonla and Harvard He wa* 
national director of the Rural 
I Resettlement Administration In 
the nineteen-thirti**. i 

Mr Packard had completed 
,for publication a book on eco-t 
Inomir , "The Consumer-Labor I 
| Approach to Social OrganUa- 

; Surviving are his widow. U 
former Emma Leonard: two 
daughters, MM. Joel Offield 
and Mrs. Byron Randall; two 
grandchildren and three great 


., Nov I, 1966 

Soil Expert, 
Dies at 82 ( 

Walter Eugene Packard? 
82. internationally known soil j 
and reclamation expert, died 
\esterday at hi i Berkeley 

Private memorial services 
are pending. 

He is survived by his wife 
of nearly 57 years, the for 
mer Emma Leonard; 773; 
Cragmont Ave., Berkeley; 
daughters Mrs. Clara Cof- 
field, Napa, and Mrs. Emmy , 
I/ou Randall, Mendocino; two 
grandchildren and three 

Mr. Packard left his own 
monuments i n flourishing 
crop lands where hunger 
once stalked, In Greece. 
Mexico. Venezuela and else- 
j where. 

Born in Illinois, schooled at 
Iowa State, University of; 
California and Harvard, he 
pioneered successful farming i 
in the desert-like Imperial 
Valley while superintendent 
of the UC experiment station 
there from 1910 to 1917. 

He was a lecturer with the 
Army education corps in 
France after World War I, 
instructor i n economics at 
Massachusetts Institute of 
Technology for a year, then 
superintendent of California 
State Land Settlement from 

He was chief of the Mexl- 
ean government s National 
i Irrigation Commission from 

From 1945 through 1947 he 
was consultant on Puerto 
Rico land use, then was con- 
s u 1 1 a n t on many Marshall 
Plan projects in Greece, 
where he b o o s t e d the rice 
crop 1200 per cent. 

Grateful Greek farmers 
erected a monument to him 
reputedly the "only bust in 
Greece with a bow tie." 

Wed., Nov. 2, 1966 

Walter E. Packard 

BERKELEY - Walter E. 
Packard, an agricultural and 
reclamation engineer who had 
worked in California, Mexice, 
Puerto Rico and Greece, died in 
his home Monday at the agfe 
of 82. 

His work as superintendent of 
the University of California ag 
ricultural experimentation sta 
tion in California s Imperial 
Valley from 1910 to 1917 pio 
neered Introduction of success 
ful farming of that onetime de 
sert-like region. 

He served at chief of the Mex 
ican government s National Irri 
gation Commission from 1925 to 

Mr. Packard was national di 
rector of the Rural Resettle 
ment Administration, concerned 
with problems of the tenant 
farmer, from 19S5 to 1938, and 
also played a prominent part in 
the farm program of the New 

In 1945-47, he was consultant 
to Gov. Rexford Tugwell of 
Puerto Rico on land and irriga 
tion problems. 

He became consultant and di 
rector of many Marshall Plan 
projects in Greece after World 
War II. Much swamp land was 
reclaimed and Greece s rice 
production increased 1,200 per 
cent and became an exported 
crop instead of an imported one 
under his supervision. 

Mr. Packard campaigned for 
public power after his return 
from Greece in 1954. Until his 
death, he was active in CaHtor- 

TUM. , Nov. 1 , 1 966 Berkeley DAILY GAZETTE 

Agricultural Engineer 
i Walter E. Packard Dies 

AdBUnls tratioo, concerned with 
Walter E. Packard ofp^m, <* & t^^ farmtr 

(Berkeley, an agricultural and from. 1935 to 1938. 

reclamation engineer who had 

been a government official for 
.numerous projects HI this coun 
try and abroad, died Monday 
at his home at 781 Cragmont 

| He was 82. 
Mr. Packard was superin 

tendent of the University of 
California Agricultural Ex 
perimentation Station In 
California s Imperial Valley 
from 1910 to 1917. HI* work 
pioneered introduction of suc 
cessful farming in that one* 
desert-like region. 

From 1925 to 1929 he was 
chief of the Mexican 
government s National Ir 
rigation Commission. 

In the 1930-8 Packard played 
a prominent part in the (arm 
program of the New Deal. He 

The next three years he spent 
as consultant to GOT. Rexford 
Tugwell of Puerto Rfco on land 
irritation problems. 

After World War n he was 
consultant aad director tor 
numerous Marshall Plan pro 
jects in Greece. Under his 
supervision much swampland 
was reclaimed aad Greece s riee 
production increased 1JSO per 
cent and became aa exported 
crop instead of an imparted one. 

After his retarn from Green 
in 1N4, Packard 
for municipal a 
PGftE here. At his death as 
was active in California Power 
Users Assn., which he fsnndsd 

He is survived by his widow, 
Emma, of the bone; two 
daughters, Mrs. Oara Coffield 
of Napa and Mrs. Emmy Lou 


Randal of Mendocino; sad (we 
grandchildren and three great- 

nia Power Users Association, 
which he founded. i 

He is survived by his widow, , 
Emma, of the family home at 1 
773 Cragmont Ave., two daugh 
ters, Mrs. Clara Coffield of 
Napa and Mrs. Emmy Lou Ran 
dal of Mendocino. 

A private memorial service is 

The family of Mr. Walter E. Packard wishes to announce 
that no public memorial services will be held as 
previously planned. Instead, a printed tribute will 
be issued after the first of the year and will be 
available to friends. 

In the meantime, arrangements have been m 
all wishing to do so may send contributions 
of flowers, to: 

(at Thessaloniki, Greece) 

have been made so that 
in I i eu 

Harvey K. 
Office of 
New York, 


Breckenri dge, 
the Trustees; 
N.Y. 10021 

36 East 61st 








Co-op Conference 2 

State Board On Food 

Marketing 8 

Calif. Transport. CoU 4 

Water and Power New* 8 

Chile * Revolution 6 

On the Election*.... 8 

Two Pioneers Leave Us A Rich Inheritance 

Murray D. Lincoln 

Murray D. Lincoln, long-time president and guiding 
spirit of the Cooperative League of the USA, and one of 
the giants of the people s self-help movement in the 
United States, died in Columbus Ohio, on November 7. 
He was 74 years old. 

Lincoln was born on a small farm near Raynham, 
Mass., on April 18, 1892. In 1914, having graduated Mas 
sachusetts Agricultural College (now the University of 
Massachusetts), he became a county agricultural agent 
in New London County, Conn., the first county agent in 
that state and one of the few in New England. His efforts 
to help farmers help themselves led to his interest in co 

In 1920 Lincoln became the first executive secretary 
of the Ohio Farm Bureau Federation at Columbus. In 
1926 he and his associates formed the Farm Bureau Mu 
tual Insurance Company to provide auto insurance for 

"Farm Bureau" insurance, which became Nationwide 
in 1950, grew to be four major companies and a number 
of subsidiary and related organizations. Lincoln was 
president of the Nationwide complex until his retirement 
in April, 1964, and was president emeritus until his 

In 1964, these four companies had nearly 4 million 
policies in force, 3 million policy holders and were selling 
$350 million worth of insurance annually with total com 
bined assets of $600 million. 

Lincoln was an active participant in the Cooperative 
League of the USA and became a director in 1935. He 
was elected its president in 1941. He retired as president 
of the League early in 1965, and at the organization s 
50th anniversary Congress at St. Paul, Minn., Oct. 12-14 
of this year the board made him honorary president. 
During his period of leadership the League became an or 
ganization of national 
stature, serving U.S. co 
operatives of all kinds 
and active overseas. 

Lincoln was elected 
the first president of 
Care the "Cooperative 
for American Relief 
Everywhere" when it 
was formed in November 

Walter E. Packard 

California and the world lost one of its most dedica 
ted citizens on Oct. 31, when Walter Packard, 82, passed 
away at his home in Berkeley. During his entire lifetime 
he used his knowledge and organizing ability to improve 
land, water and power resources so that the common peo 
ple might have a better life. 

After graduating from Iowa State College in 1907, he 
moved to California, getting his M.A. from the Univ. of 
Calif, in 1909. Then, as first director of the U.S. Experi 
mental Station in the Imperial Valley, he helped solve 
problems of conquering salt and silt laid down over mil- 
leniums by the Colorado River. 

Later he became superintendent of the Delhi Cali 
fornia State Land Settlement Colony, which had been 
established several years previously. First crops were 
ready for harvesting just before the 1921 depression. 
Farming was already on the rocks. Because of collective 
difficulties depression, sandy soil, inability to make 
payments on loans the Delhi project failed. Land was 
picked up at much below the market price. That ended 
attempts at state colonization. 

After a period at Harvard, Packard became chief of 
the Mexican Government s National Irrigation Commis 
sion (1926-29), which was responsible for developing 
water resources for farmers in desert areas. 

With the election of President Franklin D, Roose 
velt, Packard was active in various AAA agencies, finally 
becoming national director of the Rural Resettlement 
Administration (1931-38). Later he was special consul 
tant on land and irrigation to Gov. Rexford Tugwell of 
Puerto Rico (1945-47). 

In 1940 he appeared before the Senate Committee on 
Education and Labor to advocate better housing for 
farm workers, provision and equipment for part-time 
farming to reduce food costs and provide supplemental 
income, together with re- ,, 4 ..,, . -*. , . 

settlement of farm work 
ers on reclaimed federal 

In 1945, Packard as 
sisted the Central Val 
leys Conference Commit 
tee, of which former As 
semblyman Sam Heisin- 
ger was chairman, to 

(Continued on page 2) 

(Continued on page 3) Packard Ciecond front left), 
with Greek engineer*, plan- 
of An- 

Murray Lincoln 

nine the rice project 

thill In 1950. 


Murray Lincoln 
(Continued from page 1) 

1946, to help provide food for the world s 
hungry and dislocated people following 
World War II. He continued as president 
12 years and during the past nine has 
been chairman of the board. 

In 1960, Lincoln published his autobi 
ography, calling it Vice- President in 
Charge of Revolution. He told David 
Karp, who collaborated with him on the 
book, that every large organization needs 
a "vice-president in charge of revolution" 
somebody to keep everybody stirred up, 
conscious of the organization s objectives, 
and on his toes. 

Lincoln was a leader in the drive to 
form rural electric cooperatives in Ohio, 
as he was also to form farmers marketing 
and purchasing cooperatives sponsored by 
Farm Bureau. 

The nation s first rural electrical coop 
erative was founded by the REA in Ohio 
in 1936. There are now 30 such coopera 
tives in the state. From a state where less 
than 20% of farms were electrified, today 
98% are so serviced. These rural electric 
co-ops have 145,000 members, 36,000 miles 
of distribution lines and do $23 million 
worth of business annually. 

He served on the executive committee 
(and in 1946 was elected vice-president) , 
of the International Cooperative Alliance, 
London; on the board of the American 
Farm Bureau Federation; on the Federal 
Farm Credit Board, and on the board of 
the Fund for International Coopeartive 
Development, a Cooperative League-spon 
sored organization devoted principally to 
overseas cooperative development. 

He was dedicated to the idea that peo 
ple working together through coopera 
tive*, could fashion for themselves a se 
cure life based on the enormous potential 
our nation possesses. 

In one of those contradictions which our 
system generates, Lincoln s cooperative 
assets were invested in non-cooperative 
corporations which gave him directorships 
in, for example, the New York Central 
Railroad and the Allegheny Corporation. 

He envisioned adding such enterprises 
to his cooperative trophies, including the 
Ohio Farm Bureau s proposal to purchase 
one of the nation s super food chains. 

He flung the challenge. He proved it 
could be done, HIS way. It is for the peo 
ple to use this powerful tool which is with 
in their hands ... as he said in his auto 
biography: "To fashion their own des 
tiny!" Grace McDonald - 

Walter Packard 
(Continued from page 1) 

plan its Sept. 8, 1946, San Francisco Con 
ference, where 160 representatives of 
farmer, consumer, labor and resource or 
ganizations mobilized a successful cam 
paign to establish this multipurpose proj 
ect under Bureau of Reclamation Author 
ity and policies. Water and power users 
throughout California are now enjoying 
the benefits of this campaign. 

From 1948 through 1964 he served as 
consultant and director of several Marsh 
all Plan programs in Greece.. Under a re 
forestation program, he directed the 
planting of millions of tree seedlings to re 
place those which had been cut down from 
the hills and mountains during the war. 

In 1949 he began a dramatic reclama 
tion project in Anthili on the edge of the 
salt-encrusted plain of Thermopylae. Ap 
plying his experience of the Imperial Val 
ley, he diverted water from the Sperchios 
River to wash the flats clear of salt and 
alkali. Rice seed was planted. By early 
summer the amazed people saw an em 
erald patch in the chalky -white wastes. By 
fall, the field was heavy with rice. Soon 
the entire area was producing rice, stimu 
lating a 1200% increase in the nation s 
rice production. Rice soon became an ex 
port crop. 

In gratitude, the villagers of Anthili 
erected a marble statue of Mr. Packard in 
the village square. He was made an honor 
ary citizen of Anthili and Thermopylae. 

In setting up electric systems in Greece, 
Packard insisted they be owned and op 
erated by the people. This was contrary 
to plans of the giant Electric Bond and 
Share Co. (EBASCO), to set up utilities 
in Marshall Plan countries which would 
pay tribute to American shareholders.. 

In commemoration of the 20th Annivers 
ary of the Marshall Plan, Packard s work 
in Greece was cited as an outstanding 
"people-to-people" achievement. The U.S. 
State Dept. offered to fly Mr. and Mrs. 
Packard to Greece for a celebration last 
September. Mr. Packard s doctor, how 
ever, advised against the long trip. 

In recent years Mr. Packard has de 
voted his time to writing and promoting 
public power. He was founder of the Calif. 
Power Users Ass n. and a long-time mem 
ber of the Calif. Farmer-Consumer Infor 
mation Committee. A pamphlet describing 
Mr. Packard s greatest achievements will 
be made available in 1967. 

William Reich 


Remembrance by Carey McWilliams, 
Editor, The Nation, November 21, 1966 
Pages 532 - 533. 

Walter Packard 

A great and good man, Walter Packard wan one of 
California s most admirable public servants, a world citi 
zen whoH claims to distinction he was notably jucceit- 
ful in minimizing. Of hit goodneu there could never be 
any question: throughout a long lifetime (he was 82 when 
he died October 31 in Berkeley) he radiated an essential 
kindliness, a warmth and generosity of spirit and a con 
stant concern for the happlnee* and well-being of others. 
But it is not easy to suggest wherein his greatness coniiited. 
The familiar labels "agricultural economist," "social plan- 
ner," "reclamation and development expert" are painfully 
inadequate, although he had achieved great distinction in 
these fields. Perhapi the bait way to suggest the special 
quality of his eminence would be to say that he was a 
committed democrat, a man who understood and practiced 
in all relationships, and taught others to understand and 
practice, the principles of democratic living. With him, 
democracy was both means and end, a mode of living M 
well as a social philosophy. 

Wherever his work took him to Mexico, to Venezuela, 
to Puerto Rico, to Greece people responded to hit in 
spired personal leadership. In Greece, where he taught the 
villagers of Anthele how to grow rice on what they had 
long regarded as a sterile plain, they called him "PapoiT 
("grandfather") and, much to hi* embarrassment, erected a 
marble statue in his honor. The areas In which he worked 
were Invariably the richer for his having been then. When 
he went to Greece, the country wai importing S3 mil* 
lion worth of rice a year; when he left It wea exporting 
that much or more. At his death h was carrying on, with 
typical energy, cheerfulness and infectious good wiH, a 
campaign to induce the resident* of Berkeley to set up a 
city-owned power system. lie had recently completed a 
book, The Consumfr-Labor Approach to Social Organiza 
tion, which embodied his deeply felt commitment to the 
principles of social and economic democracy. But wise and 
illuminating as the book will be, it will not do justice to 
the quality of his insight into the theory and practice of 
democracy. Why is it that pubbc servants of his breed 
seldom win reputations commensurate with their achieve 
ments? Pan of the explanation, no doubt, Is that mm of 
his kind usually have, aa he had, a panic* (or anonymity; 
but it could also be became then* true greatness consist* 
not in the artifact* they leave behind them but in what 
they have Inspired others to do for themierves. 




- (t (*> 

Villa Bftum 
Tho Oonoral Library 
UnlYorelty of California 
Borkoloy, California 9*720 

Doar Willa Bau: 

booauao of old ago. 

Emma L. Packard 



Adams, Edward F. , 194 

Adams, Frances, 91-93,110,251,345,353,471,522 

Adams, Frank, 44,84,109,122,123,143,202,269,270 

Adams, R.L. , 143,145 

Addams, Jane, 9,11 

Agricultural Extension Service: bulletins, 75ff . ; description of AES, 98; 
function of AES, 99; expansion of need for, 94; outlet for Packard s in 
terest in farmers, 97; recognition of economic problems, 132 

Aguierre, ,158,159 

Albuto, Arturo, 220 

Alexander, Will W. , 348 

All-American Canal, 88-90,101,352 

Allen, Dr. Frances, 65 

Alsberg, Carl, 352 

Anderson, Dewey, 306 

American Farm School, Greece, 422,442,452 

American Mission, Greece, 419-531 

American Mission relations with Greek government Ministries, 484ff. 

American Woaen of Greece (AW06) , 449f f . 

Arensen, , 410 

Armenia: land rehabilitation in, 115-121 

Army Education Corps lectures (land settlement proposals for soldiers) , 107ff. , 128 

Arnold, Henry, 24 

Arrieaga, , 396,397 

Associated Farmers, 313-318,361 

AWOG (See American Women of Greece) 

Azhderian, Vaughn, 60,78,79,167 

Babcock, Ernest, 109,122 

Bache, Dallas, 164 

Baldwin, C.B. (Be9ny) , 333,347,348 

Ballis, George, 552 

Barkan, Dr. Otto, 359 

Barrows, Leland, 525 

Bartlett, Louis, 363,551 

Barton, Bruce, 24,25 

Benedict, Murray E. , 472 

Benitez, Jaime, 383,384,417 

Betancourt, Romulo, 408,411,416 

Bioletti, Frederic, 79,202 

Black, James, 369 

Blaisdell, Tom, 371,472 

Boman, Bobby (Grandson of Emma and Walter Packard, son of Clara), 407 


Boman, Judy (Granddaughter of Emma and Walter Packard, daughter of Clara), 446,521,522 

Boman, Robert (first husband of Clara Packard), 521 

Boot Company of London, England, 483,496 

Bowker, Walter, 55,61 

Bracero program (Mexican farm workers), 72 

Breed, Arthur M. (State Senator from Oakland), 142 

Bridwell, John, 79 

Brock, , 69a 

Brooks, Phil, 60,77,78,91 

Buckley, Amos, 472 

Bulbulian, Berge, 552 

Butterfield, Kenyon, 113,114 

Cairns, Burton (architect), 250,294,307,320,321,324,344,345 

Cairns, Donald (Grandson of Emma and Walter Packard, son of Emmy Lou), 520 

California Mexican Ranch (See Bowker, Walter), 55,61 

California (State) Water Plan, 543,544 

Calles, President Plutarco E. , 223,231,243,244,245,247 

Camp, John, 410 

Campbell, Foster, 49 

Cannon, Cavendish, 525 

Canyon Canal Project - Payette River, 34,138 

"Carey claim", 36,40 

Carr, James, 549 

Carver, Thomas Nixon, 131,133,274 

Central Valley, 269,368,543-546: See Haynes Foundation, Los Angeles for Central 

Valley project report, 367; Chairman, Central Valley Committee of California 

Housing and Planning Association, 375-377 
Cessna, Reverend Orange Howard, 46 
Chadbourn, Alfred, 519 
Chadbourn, Esther (Esther Packard, sister of Walter, subsequently Mrs. Philip 

Chadbourn), 519 

Chadbourn, Philip, 12,103,104,126 
Chandler, A.E., 42 

Chandler, Harry (See also Los Angeles Times), 95,96,205 
Chapman, Oscar L. , 472 
Chase, Stuart, 353,472 
"Christeros", 226-237 
Christides, Orestis, 423,485,505 
Clark, Warren, 82 
Coffield, Joel, 522,541 
Coffin, Robert P. Tristram, 454,523,524 
Coit, J. Eliot, 48,75,76,79,99 
Collier, John, 359 
Colorado River, 55 

Columbia River Basin project, 273,357,360 

Comision Nacional de IrrigaCion (See Mexico, National Irrigation Commission) 
Constantinides, Kimon, 431 


Cook, Max, 152-154,165,166,180 
Corfitzen, W.E., 455-459 
Corticon, Eduardo Mendoza, 408,415 
Cowell, Henry, 289 
Crampton, C.C., 185 
Crocheron, B.H. , 99,100,324 
Crowley, Father, 30,31 

Darrow, Clarence, 95 

Davis, A. P., 90,360 

Davis, Homer, 452 

Davis, , 58 

Day, Dr. , 131 

Debs, Eugene, 57 

Deirup, Mary, 288 

Delano, Jack, 382 

Delhi Land Settlement Colony, 140-208, 325 

Delhi Settlers Welfare League, 184-187,196 

Del Pino, Moya, 251 

DeMars, Betty, 382 

DeMars, Vernon, 250,260,307,320,321,345,382 

Deutsch, Monroe, 374 

Dewey, John, 93,345 

DeWitt, General , 374 

Dibble, Barry, 273 

Domhoff, William, 522 

Dougherty, Paul, 94,102,113,122,177,195-196 

Douglas, Helen Gahagan, 472 

Downey, Sheridan, 343 

Downs, Bill, 537 

Drobish, Harry, 306,307 

Dubinsky, David, 337 

Duffy, Walter, 360 

Durham land settlement, 143-144,152 

Duveneck, Frank, 374,552 

Duveneck, Frank, Mrs., 287-288 

Eastside Mesa development (Imperial Valley), 101,350-352 
Ebonet, Madame, 398 
Eckbo, Garrett, 250-251,260 
Eddy, Harriet, 102,103,126 
Edmondson, Bob (State Engineer), 373 
Egloff , Marjorie and Max, 382 
Einstein, Albert, 338 
Eisenhower, Milton, 374 

El Centre, California: climate and living conditions in Imperial Valley; community 
life, local population, 47-52,59-64,71,76,86,87 


Ellsworth, Elmer, 383 

EPAM (Greece), 485 

Etcheverry, Bernard A., 42,133,202,270,372 

Exidis, John, 441, 442 

Family farming develops into mechanized farming in Imperial Valley: develop 
ment and transition, 69-70,73; water supplies as condition for large mech 
anized farms, 72; exemptions from acreage limit provisions of Reclamation 
Act, 72; mechanization in Central Valley, 367 

Farm Bureau, 94,99-100 

Farm credit, 94 

Farm problems, Imperial Valley: climate and living conditions, 47-52; ground 
water conditions, 82; alfalfa infestation, etc. , 80; grasshoppers, hog cholera, 
and nematodes, 81 

Farr, Janet and Fred, 382 

Fawcett, William, 69,69a 

Fennel 1, Thomas, 394 

Fish, Clara (Mrs. Samuel W. Packard), 7,8,10 

Fleishhacker, Mortimer, 142 

Flood control, Greece, 489-497 

Forestry and range land rehabilitation, Greece, 497 

Fortas, Abe, 370,402,403,471,472 

Fortier, Ernest, 148 

France: Wartime experiences, World War I, 107-129 

Frankfurther, Felix, 137 

Frayne, Pat, 476 

Friendly, Fred, 536,537 

Fryer, Lee, 358 

Galindo, General, 233-235 

Garst, Jonathan, 307,323,324,347 

George, Henry, 88,133,141,275 

Gerdes, Robert, 272 

Germany: travel and impressions, 517-520 

Gerty, Francis J. (Dr.), 5 

Gillis, Fay, 352 

Gilmore, (Head of Industry Division, American Mission to Greece), 456,457 

Goldschmidt, Alphonse, 353 

Gomez, , 414,416 

Gossett, Mrs. , 233 

Grady, Henry, 426,429,449,462,463 

Grady, Lucretia del Valle (Mrs. Henry), 449,450,473 

Grant, Major (of Veterans Administration), 182 

Gray, Dr. Harry, 261-264,266 

Gray, L.C., 304,308,339,346,347 

Greece, forestry and range land rehabilitation, 497 ff. 

Greece, land reclamation, 485-489,505 ff. 


Greece, Ministries of Agriculture and Public Works, 482-513 

Greece, Public Power Corporation, development of, 474-478,538 

Greece, rebuilding of war-damaged structures (flood control, drainage, 

irrigation), 482-483 

Greece, Reclamation projects: financial and political problems, 435 ff. 
Greece, river development and flood control: Master plans by foreign 

corporations, 489-497; See also: Knappen-Tippetts Corp., Harza Company, 

Grontmij Company, Boot Company of London 
Greece, War conditions in, 421-435 
Gregg, John W. , 150 
Griswold, Dwight P. , 457,459 
Grontmij Company of Holland, 495 
Gross, Alfred and Mrs., 523 

Gumberg, Alex, 93,345,353 (See also Frances Adams) 
Gunn, Mr. (also referred to as "Brother Gunn"), 186 

Hamilton, Professor , 125 

Hardy, Fred, 210,233-234 

Harriman, Averell, 476 

Harriman, Job, 95,96,205 

Harris, Charles, 484,494 

Hartmann, , 263-264 

Harza Engineering Company, 492,495 

Hauge, Theone, 336 

Haynes Foundation, Los Angeles, 367 

Haworth, Howard, 496 

Hedley, George, 300 

Heise, Bertha, 51,247,289,290 

Hempton, , 410 

Henderson, , 77 

Henson, H.E.,359 

Hewes, Laurence, 285,323 

Heyneman, Paul, 313 

Hibbard, Benjamin, 328 

Hilgard, Eugene, 42,133 

Hocker, Rex, 158 

Holabird, Colonel W.H. , 88 

Holt, W.F., 53,54 

Holtville, California, 53,54,60,71,76,92 

Hoover, Bruce, 263-265 

Hoover, H.T., 263-265 

Hoover, Herbert, 116 

House, Charley, 422 

House, John, 422,423 

Housing, low-cost (on land settlements): 152-155: See Cook, Max - Delhi, 152-155; 
Albuto, Arturo - Mexico, 220; Cairns, Burton - Rural Resettlement Administra 
tion, 307 

Hunt, Thomas For sy the, 99,142,143 

Hutcheson, Rosetnarie, 13 

Hyatt, Edward (State Engineer), 373 


Ickes, Harold, 324,370,390 

Imperial Valley, 48-97,350-352 

Iowa State College, Ames, Iowa, 27ff. 

Irrigation Census (Irrigation Investigation Office, USDA), 43,44 

Irrigation Commission of Mexico, 208-222 

Irrigation Investigation Office, USDA (irrigation census), 43-44,419 

Irsoki, , 241 

Israel: travel and impressions, 465-471 

Iverson, Ken, 463 

Jahn, John, 149 

Jahn, John, Jr., 399 

Jenkins, Paul and Mrs., 445,470,530 

Jimenez, Perez , 416,417 

Johnson, , 125 

Jones, Marvin, 369 

Kahlo, Frida (Mrs. Diego Rivera), 248,249,254,255,257,258,288 
Kaiser Company, 532-535 
Kalinski, Alex, 513 

Karamanlis, Nicholas 491 

Kelley, Captain (editor of Imperial Valley Press), 52,53 

Kenny, Robert W. , 364,376,377 

Kerr, Clark, 313 

Kingsbury, John, 113-115,122,123,355,356 

Kinney, H.H., 364 

Klemme, Martin, 498 

Kloke, Fritz, 62,63 

Klumb, Henry, 408 

Knappen, Tippetts, Abbott, McCarthy Engineering Corporation, 451,489,490,491 

Kocher, A., 215 

Kragen, Adrian A. , 364 

Kreutzer, George, 101,143,149,173,174,193 

Krug, Julius, 402,403 

Labor camps, 308-320 

La Follette, Robert, Jr., 341,342 

Land Bank, 283-286 

Land reclamation, Greece, 485-489,505-512 

Land reform problems - Mexico (ejido movement), 217-222 

Land rehabilitation in Armenia, 115-121 

Land settlement, 108,142,152-195: See also: Army Education Corps lectures, 

Delhi Land Settlement Colony, Durham Land Settlement Colony, Mead Plan, 

Mead, Elwood 

Land speculation and unscrupulous characters, 261-267 
Lane, Franklin, 105,108,109 
Lansdale, Philip, 204,207 
Lapham, Roger, 436,439 
Larang, Jake, 166 


Lasoya, Juan, 210,261 

Lee, Dr. Russell, 226,290,291 

Leonard, Emma (See also Packard, Emma, Mrs. Walter Packard), 32,45,46 

Leonard, Henry Lee ("Hell Let Loose" Leonajrd) , 45 

Letsas, Frixos, 484,495,528 

Liera, Guilliermo, 223 

Lincoln, General, 28 

Lindbergh, Charles A. (Lindy) , 242-244 

Livermore, Beth, 95 

Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, 204-225,281-282 

Lowdermilk, Walter, 469 

Lowry, Nelson, 404 

Lubin, David, 141 

Ludlow, William and Wilma, 382,399 

Mace, Brice, 438 

Main, Dr. John H. , 121 

Marin, Luis Muftoz: See Munoz Mar in, Luis 

Martin, Dr. Lillien, 288,291 

Mason, J. Rupert, 364 

Matthews, , 371,373,376-377 

May, Bernice, 549,554 

McAllister, Bard, 319 

McCarthy, Joseph, 260 

McClelland, Harry, 361 

McClure, , 537 

McDonald, Grace, 546 

McKinley, Ethel, 327 

McWilliams, Carey, 313 

Mead, Elwood, 89,94,99,101,109,128,130,141-142,151,153,165,193-195,201,275,285,557 

"Mead Plan": See also Mead, Elwood, 105,108,140-142,325 

Mears, Elliott, 246,247 

Mears, Mrs. Elliott, 288 

Mechanical Cultivation Service (MSC), Greece, 486-488 

Medhurst, (editor of Free Lance, newspaper in El Centre, California), 52-58 

Mejorada, J. Sanchez, 209,238,259 

Mendoza, Corticon Eduardo, 408,415 

Mennonites, 222,261 

Merritt, Ralph, 299 

Mexico: Ejido movement (Land reform problems), 217-222 

Mexico: National Irrigation Commission of, 208-222 

Meyers, General, 412 

Migratory farm laborers, 308-320 

Miles, General, 385 

Miller, Collin, 553 

Mills, C. Wright, 544,545 

Mocine, Corwin, 250,345 

Morgan, Anne, 327 

Morgan, Aubrey Neil, 353 

Morgan, Dave, 270 

Morpjcnthau, Henry, 1.1 5,1 16, 11 6a, 121,122,342 


Morrow, Anne, 243 

Morrow, Dwight and Mrs., 242,245,253 

Moscoso, Teodoro, 393,397 

Mott, John R. , 33 

MSC: See Mechanical Cultivation Service 

Munoz Marin, Luis, 383-417 

Murray, Keith, 551 

Murrow, Edward R. , 531,536-537 

Near East Foundation, 482,483,486 

Ncff, J.B. , 83 

Neilands, J.B., 551 

Newens, Professor A.M., 125 

Newmeyer, William L. , 456 

Newspapers - Imperial Valley: Free Lance , Medhurst, editor; Imperial Valley 

Press, Captain Kelley, editor, 52-58 
Newspapers: Los Angeles Times, 94,95,354 
Niendorf, Arthur, 252 
Nuveen, John, 426,458-462,464,472,474 

Oak, Lura Sawyer, 91,92 

Obregon, General, 244 

Odium, Floyd, 93 

Orozco, Jose Clemente, 290,322 

Owens Valley, 204,281,282 

Pacific Gas & Electric Company (See P.G.&E.) 

"Packard conscience", 1 

Packard, Clara (born in 1910, daughter of Emma and Walter Packard), 51,61,68,77,225, 

Packard, Clara Fish, 7 
Packard, Elizabeth Ware, 3 ff. 

Packard, Emma (Mrs. Walter Packard, nee Emma Leonard, also referred to as "Emma") 
Packard, Emmy Lou (born in 1914, daughter of Emma and Walter Packard), 51,52,68, 


541,542 See: For association with Diego Rivera, 247-261 
Packard, Esther (see also Chadbourn, Philip), 12,103,127 
Packard, family and forebears, 1-14: See also name of member of family, i.e., 

John Packard, Emma Packard, etc. 

Packard, John, 13,38,39,40,41,57,205,268,275,316,365,366 
Packard, Laura, 12,18,25,110 
Packard, Samuel, 2 
Packard, Samuel Ware, 3,7 
Packard, Stella, 11,26,110,380 
Packard, Theophilus (born 1765), 2,7 

Packard, Theophilus (born 1842, brother of Walter Packard s father), 3,19 
Packard, Theophilus Jr. (born 1802), 2,3,6 f f . , 9 
Packard, Walter 


Palacio, Gomez, 232 

Paleologue, John, 486, 487,505,510,528 

Palmer, William, 323 

Palo Alto, Bank of, 204,207 

Papadopoulas, George, 528 

Papandreou, George, 526 

Papanicalau (head of Ministry of Public Works), 514 

Parton, Lemuel and Mary, 345 

Payette River, 34,38 

Peninsula School, Palo Alto, 287-291 

Perantinos, Nikos, 523-524 

Perkins, Richard R. , 31,472 

Pesonen, Dave, 551 

Peterson, Carl A., 363 

Peterson, , 410 

Peurifoy, John, 451 

Pezopoulos, G.N. 

Pfleuger, Timothy, 251,253 

P.G. & E. , 270-273,282 

Phillips, John, 547 

Piccard (Original French name of Packards), 2 

Pico, Raphael, 387 

Pinkerton Detective Agency, 342 

Pinero, Jesus T., 383,401,403,406,407,417 

Pinto, Ramon, 409 

Plastiris, , 441 

Porter, Paul, 474 

Pottenger, Dr. Francis, 64,65,66,67,68,287 

Prall, Jack, 33 

Price, Reginald, 553 

Private versus public control controversies: See public versus private control 

Producer cooperatives: opinions about unsoundness of: in United States, 332; in 

Puerto Rico, 389; in Mexico, 221 

Public Power Corporation, development of in Greece, 474-478 
Public versus private control controversies: beliefs about, 272-273; land issues, 

Puerto Rico, 388-395; power issues, Greece: hydro-electric power, 455-464; 

oil refinery, 525-526,538; United States, Friant-Kern Canal, 369 

Quinn, G.B., 546 

Ralston, Judge Jackson, 293 

Randall, Byron, 522,541 

Reclamation, Bureau of: See U.S. Bureau of Reclamation 

Reclamation projects, Greece: financial and political problems, 419-542 

Redman, Edward, 12 

Reich, Bill, 551 

Resettlement Administration: See U.S. Rural Resettlement Administration 

Reynolds Company, 534,535 


Rice Growing and Alkali Reclamation Program, Greece, 505ff. 

Richardson, , 91 

Richter, George, 353 

River development and flood control, Greece, 483,489-497 

Rivera, Diego, 247-261,289,321,322 

Robins, Raymond, 138,139,429 

Rockefeller, Nelson, 411 

Rodriguez, Antonio, 223 

Rogers, Will, 244 

Rosenn, Keith S., 395 

Rosskam, Ed and Louise, 382,384 

Rosten, Irwin, 540 

Rotkin, Charles and Adele, 382 

Rubel, Chester, 100 

Rural Resettlement Division, See U.S. Rural Resettlement Division 

Ryerson, Knowles, 102,122,202 

Salarzano, , 223-225,262 

Salt, Waldo, 294 

Salton Sea, 55 

Sandoe, Jimmy, 294 

San Francisco General Strike, 300-301 

Sansum, William, 226,291,292 

Sauer, Carl, 301 

Sawyer, Lura (Mrs. Oak), 91 

Scharff, Maurice, 456,457 

Schmidt, Katherine, 95 

"Schmidty", 95 

Seagraves, , 144,147 

Security clearance: rules and difficulties with, 420,439,464-465,471-473 

Senior, Clarence, 221,382 

Seymour, Walton, 476 

Shattuck, Oscar, 164,165,178,197 

Shaw, Charles, 79,86,99,143,144,202,208,216,224,276,277 

Silvermaster, Gregory, 310 

Sinclair, Upton, 12,13,95,343,349,366 

Sissler, Walter, 460 

Smith, Charles, 551 

Smith, Raymond C., 472 

Socialism: National Committee of Socialist Party (brother John Packard), 13; 
Contacts with Los Angeles Socialist mayoralty candidate, 95; Socialism as 
reaction to injustice and corruption, 132; "became a Socialist at Stanford", 132 

Southern Pacific Company, 52,54,55 

Spear, Robert, 33 

Stackpole, Ralph, 251 

Steffens, Lincoln, 95,126 

Steinbeck, John, 313 

Stibem, Mason S. , 113 

Stone, Susan, 423 

Strachan, Alan, 463 


Straus, Michael, 406 
Strong, Anna Louise, 24,25 
Surieh, 84 
Swett, Frank, 297,307 

Taussig, Dr. Frank, 131,133,135 

Taylor, Carl C. , 304,308,325,326,472 

Taylor, Paul, 306,308,309,312,369,551 

Taylor, Walter J., 80 

Telesis, 259,260 

Temko, Alan, 551 

Thelen, Max, 277 

Thompson, Dorothy, 353 

Thompson, Eric, 309 

Tolley, Howard, 162,295,297 

Tolman, Cyrus, 271,281 

Tope, John, 14,23 

Torgussen, Reidar, 294 

Townsend, Francis, 342,343 

Travis, Charles, 451 

Trimis, , 442 

Trotsky, Leon, 253,254,322 

Trowbridge and Niver Company, Chicago, 37,38,40 

Tugwell, Grace (Mrs. Rex G.), 338,379 

Tugwell, Rexford Guy, 302-349,377-405 

Turner, Asa, 29 

Tyler, Marian, 353 

Unions and farm worker organization, 311-319 

United States Bureau of Reclamation, 156,157,201,269,275,282,350-375,406,490 
United States Irrigation Census, 43,44,269 _ 

United States Rural Resettlement Administration, 268,351: functions, 302- 

Region 9 of fice, 306-308; migratory farm labor and labor camps, 308-318: work 
of Washington office, 339-341; personnel, 346; Rural Resettlement Division, 325 
Updike, Irving, 17,24 

Van Cleve, Mary, 353 

Van Fleet, General James, 426 

Vaseg, Tom, 309 

Veihmeyer, Frank, 83,86,162 

Veterans Administration trainees, 176-188 

Violich, Francis, 250 

Wallace, Henry A., 324,348,349 

Ward, John R. , 550 

Ware, Edward, 20 

Ware, Elizabeth Parsons (Mrs. Elizabeth W. Packard), 3 

Ware, Reverend Samuel, 3 

Warren, Earl, 364-372 


Waterman, John, 91 

Water Plan (State Water Plan, California), 543,544 

Webster, Anna (Mrs. David), 288,290 

Weeking, Ernie, 370 

Weinstock, Harris, 141 

Weiss, Andy, 215 

Welfare Leaguers: See Delhi Settlers Welfare League 

Wellman, Harry R. , 102,202,295,299,301,472 

Wells, Linton, 353 

Western States Life Insurance Company, 202,203,505 

Westmoreland, Rowena, 329 

Weston, Joseph, 307 

Weymouth, Frank, 213 

Whipple, Howard, 202,204 

White, Charles, 438 

White, J.G. and Company, 210-214 

Wickson, Edward J. , 48,78 

Wilbur, Ray Lyman, 72-74 

Williams, Albert Rhys, 9*2,103,104,110,360 

Williams, Aubrey, 355,357 

Williams, Cora, 286 

Williams, Dave, 60 

Williams, Maynard, 523 

Williams, Milo, 148 

Williams, W. Llew, 117 

Wilson, Edgar, 144,150 

Wilson, M.L. , 360 

Wilson, Maude, 307 

Wilson, Woodrow, 116,121,125 

Woodworth, Charles, 78,79 

Wooster, C.M. , 194,201,281 

Wortheim, Maurice, 353 

Wright, Harold Bell, 61,187 

Young Men s Christian Association, 33,35,36,38,46,109,110,123,125 

YPEM (organization of the Greek Ministry of Agriculture, concerned with irrigation), 

Young Women s Christian Association, 46 

Zenos, Johnny, 78,79 

Willa Klug Baum 

Grew up in Middle West and Southern California. 

B.A. , Whittier College, in American history and 

philosophy; teaching assistant in American history 

and constitution. 

Newspaper reporter. 

M.A. , Mills College, in American history and 

political science; teaching fellow in humanities. 

Graduate work, University of California at Berkeley, 

1949-1954, in American and California history; 

teaching assistant in American history and recent 

United States history. 

Adult school teacher, Oakland, in English and 

Americanization, 1948-1967; author of teaching 

materials for English. 

Summer session instructor in English for foreign 

students, Speech Department, University of California 

at Berkeley. 

Interviewer and then head of Regional Oral History 

Office, 1954 to present, specializing in water and 

agricultural history. 

Council member of national Oral History Association, 


1695 5 3-B