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THE
N /
Parliamentary History
OF
ENGLAND,
r^oM
THE EARLIEST PERIOD
TO
THE YEAR
1803.
FROM WHICH LAST-MENTIOKED EPOCH IT IS CONTINUED
DOWNWARDS IN THE WORK ENTITLED,
« THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES.'*
VOL. xn.
A.D. 1741—1743.
LONDON:
nantD sv t. c nkvsiXD, PBTBRaoitouaH.<x>iniT, n.BBr-mtEBa' s
I Rtt LONGMAN. BURST, REE8, ORME, U BROWN j J. RICHARDSON; BLACK,
; PiRRT, & CO.; J. HATCHARD ; J. RIDGWAY; £. JEFFERT ; J. BOOKER ;
J. BODWEIX; CRADOCK & JOY; R. H. STANS; B. BVOD; J. BOOTH;
AND T. C. HANSARD. ,
1813.
#
/•M.'»:-M..:.
rsy
Py V(^c^ (o 1>
PREPACK
The present Volume brings the Parliamentary History of Eng-
hud down to the year 1743 ; at which period^ by ralher a singular
coincidence, the Debates compiled for the Gentleman's Magazine
by Doctor Johnson^ the Manuscript Reports of Archbishop Seeker^
and the Collections of Oiandler and Timberhnd— all end.
The following will be found a conect lost of the Debates
cofflpiled for the Gentleman's Magazine by Dr. Johnson :
1T40. DdMte in the COMMONS, See VoL IW
Nor. 25. On the Bill for prohibitii^ the Ezportation rf Com - XI 8£|
Dec. Si On a Complaint against a printed Pi^r, entitled «Coii-
sidentions upon the Embargo'* -••.•-« „« 867
Debate in the LORDS,
9L On tfaeDoke of Argyle's Motion respecting the State of
the Army : and on a Resolution against augmenting,
it by R4;imenU 89ft
Ddiate m the COMMONS,
la On the Augmentation of the Army by N^ R^gimants «•• 988
12. On the Employment of th9 Half-Fay Officers .^ • • ... 991
IWl.
te. S6. On a Motion fiv Rear Admiral Haddock's linstroctiona ... 1001
87. On the Bin for Paving and Cleansing the Streets of
Westminster ••..•....«^..« «.. 1010
Fci». S. On the Sailing of the Trendi and Spanish Fleets 10S9
DdMte in the LORDS,
11 On Lord Carteret's Motion for the Remofal of Sir Ro«
bert Walpde - . - . ^ 1{53
Debate in the COMMONS,
On Bfr. Sandys's Motion for the Removal of Sir Robert
Walpde .....,.♦ ... 1S08
M On the Clauses of the Mutiny Bill rdative to the Quart
taring of Soldieis 1449
r It B F A C E.
1741. See VoL Pn|
Aprfl 6. On tbe Phoe Bfll - XII &.
May I^ On considering and tavying the Standing Oiden of the
House --..-*.••-.-- G
25. On the BiD for indemnif|ring Penona who shall make Dia-
coTeriesconeemlngtheBariof Orfivd'aCondocC • • «•• G
98. On the BiU to ezdode oertam Ofioera fiem bdng Mem-
ben of the House of Commona • ...••.• .•• 7:
June 1. On the Bin for protecting IVade and Narigation 7i
174S.
Jan, SI. On the FMitionofthe Charitable Corporation Ill
Feb. 1. On taking die Hanoverian Troops hito British 1>7 lO!
82. On the Motion fiir committing the Spirituous Liquors Bin ••• LS5
S^ On the Spirituous liquors Bin, hi the Committee - - - ••• ISC
85. On the Third Readmgefthe Spirituous Liquors Bin -. - .«• 14S
LoKnoK, 5, PanUm Square,
Jufy 25, 1812.
OmiHioo in Vol. X
AtthtfBolorP^14t9,4, ikooM hare b«o Mid, Bii» or Vmrai X.
TABLE
TABLE OF CONTENTS
TO
VOLUME xn.
I. Proceedings akd Debates in
BOTH Houses of Parliament.
IL AODRUSES.
III. Kua's Speeches.
ly. Kuig's Messages. '
V. Lists.
VI. Parliamkntaky Papers.
^U Protests.
vui. Reports.
IX. Persons filling the several
High Offices in Church
AND State.
X. Index of the Names of the
SEVERAL Speakers in both
Houses of Parliament.
PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES IN BOTH
HOUSES OP PARLIAMENT.
SEVENTH SESSION OF THE EIGHTH PARLIAMENT OF
GREAT BmTAIS^fConHnuedJhm VoL XL} .
1741.
Feb. %. Debate in the Lords on the Place Bill I
Protest on rejecting tlie Place Bill S
27. Debate in the CominoDS on the Bill to prevent the Ipconve-
nienoea arisingfrom the Insurance of Ships 7
Debate in the Commons on the Seamen's Bill 26
%r.l2. Debate m the Lords on altering a Turnpike Bill sent from the
Commons. From the Seeker Manuscript 143
Apdl 8. The King's Speech to both Houses for a Vote of Credit in sup-
port of the Pragmatic Sanction, and for a Subsidy to the
Queen of Hungary, &c 146
9* Debate in the Lords on an Address of Thanks for the King's
Speech 149
Another Report of the same Debate from the Seeker Manuscript 149
Debate m the Commons on an Address of Thanks for the King's
Speech , 154
1^ Debate in the Commons on a Motion for a Subsidy to the Queen
of Hungary 167
25. The King's Speech at the Close of the Session... t........... 185
•^^^Xn.] [b]
TABLE OP CONTENTSL
nSST SESSION OF THE NINTH PABUAMENT
OF GREAT BRITAIN.
MeettDg of the New Parliament •. II
List of the House of Comoioiia •• li
Mr. Arthur Ondow re-chosen Speaker ••• 2
4e. The Speaker's Speech on bemg presented to the King and ap-
proved of • Si
The King's Speech on Opening the Session Sj
Debate in the Lords on the Address of Thanks 21
Another Report of the same Debate, from the Seeker Manu-
script : Sj
The Lords' Address of Thanks— The King's Answer 2S
8. Debate in the CommooB on the Address of Thanks 2j
Hie Commons' Address of Thanks — ^The King's Answer 3]
Doctor Le^ chosen Chairman of the Committee of Privileges and
Elections • ..••••• 3i
9. Proceedings respecting the Westminster Election Petition Si
The Commons adjourn— A Message from the King to the Prince
of Wales— The Prince's Answer 3i
1742.
Jan. 19. Debate in the Lords on a Motion for Rear- Admiral Haddock's
Orders and lnstructi<Ki8. From the Seeker Manuscript 33
21. Debate in the Commons on Mr. Pulteney's Motion for referring
to a Select Committee the several Papers relating to the Con-
duct of the War 3S
27* Debate in the Lords on a Resolution concerning thf Absence of
Officers from the Garrison of Minorca 3|
Protest on the Rejection of the said Resolution 35
28. Proceedings relating to the Chippenham Election • 40
Fob. 3. The Kino adjourns the Parliament -^ Sir Robert
Walpolb resigns his Places^ and is created Earl
OF Orford — The Prince of Wales Conciliated —
Meeting of the Opposition at the Fountain Tavern
— Great Ferment in the Nation — Ministerial
Changes 40l
Representations and Instructions sent to various
Members from their Constituents upon the Change
OF Ministry ....• 41{
19. Debate in the Commons on granting a Supply previous to a
Redress of Grievances • 42{
26. The Pension Bill brought into the Commons 441
Mar. 4. Resolutions of the Grand Committee on the Merchants' Petition 44^
A Bill ordered to be brought in for the Security of Trade and
Navigation in time of War 441
9. Debate in the Commons on Lord Limerick's Motion
FOR appointing A COMMITTEE TO ENQUIRE INTO THE
Conduct of Affairs at Home and Abroad during
THE LAST Twenty Years : From the Loudon Magazine 441
TABLE OF CONTEOTS.
17tt
s^y^/ Page
Dbbatb ih the Commons on Lord Limerick's Motion
ror appointing a committee to enquire into the
Conduct of Affairs at Home and Abroad during
THE LAST Twenty Years : From the Gentleman's Ma-
gazine .•• 496
Mtf.SSi Debate in the Commons on Lojid Limerick's Motion
FOR appointing A COMMITTEE TO ENQUIRE INTO THE
Conduct of Robert Earl of Orford during the
LAST Ten Ysars *..... 532
Debate in the Commons on Lord Limerick's Motion
for appointing a committer to enquire into the
Conduct of Robert Earl of Orford during the
lAst Ten Years 563
A Secret Committee of Twenty One appointed to Enquire into
the Conduct of Robert Earl of Orford 586
Hie Commons' Address of Confidence and Fidelity to the King.
»The King's Answer * • • 586
19. Names of the Secret Committee appointed to Elnquire into the
Coodttct of Robert Earl of Orford 587
SI. A Motion for repealing the Septennial Act rejected by the Com-
mons • « 590
Hie Pension BOl rejected by the Lords • 590
ApcO I. Hie King's Message concerning the Queen of Hungary 591
& DdMte m the Lords on the Place BiU 593
Another Report of the same Debate, from the Seeker Manuscript 592
& Debate in the Commons on transferring Seven Irish Regiments
to the British Establishment 611
13. D^te in the Commons on Mr. Paxton's refusing to answer be-
fore the Committee of Secrecy.« 635
%li First Report from the Committee of Secrecy ap-
pointed TO Enquire into the Conduct of R.obsrt
Earl of Orford 628
A Bill to indemnify Evidence against Robert Earl of Orford
passes the Commons 637
Copy of the Bill to indemnify Evidence against Robert Earl of
Orford 638
Debate in the Lords on considering and varying the Standing
Orden. From the Seeker Manuscript 640
25. D^te in the Lords on the Bill to indemnify Evidence against
Robert Earl of Orford « 643
Ajiother Report of the same Debate, from the Seeker Manuscript 643
PMtest against not committing the Bill to indemnify Evidence
against the Earl of Orford 711
96. Debate in the Commons on the Rejection by the Lords of the -
Bill to indemnify Evidence against Robert Earl of Orford 715
28. Debate in the Lords. on the BiU to exclude certain Officers from
being Members of the House of Commons 733
3L Report of the Committee appointed to consider of
Printing the Journals of the House of Commons 734
The Journals of the House of Commons ordered to be printed... 745
Ddiate m the Commons on the Vote of Credit ^ 74@
Copy of a Bill sent up from the Commons, for securing Trade and
KsTigation in Times of WarM..M..».M..MMt..H.f.t.M.MMf.MMf 748
TABLE OF CONTENT&
1742.
June L Debate in the Lords en the BHl for Mcurnig Trade ftAd Naviga-
ttonin Times of War •,. 7!
Another Report of the same Debate, from the Seeker Manuscript 71
Further Report from the Committee of Secrecy ap-
pointed TO Enquire into the Conduct of Robert
Earl of Orford 71
July 15. The King's Speech at the Close of the Session S
SECOND SESSION OF THE NINTH PARlIABfENT
OF GREAT BRITAIN.
Nov. 16. The King's Speech on Opening the Session • 81
Debate in the Lords on the Address of Thanks SJ
TheLords' Address of Thanks— The King's Answer 8i
Debate in the Commons on the Address of Thanks i Si
The Commons' Address of Thanks.-^The King's Answer 81
Dec S. Debate in the Commons on the Place Bill 81
6. Debate in the Commons on continuing the British Troops in
Flanders 9C
10. Debate in the Commons on taking tHB Hakoterian
Troops into British Pay. From the London Magazine 94
Debate in the Commons on taking the HAMoraRiAN
Troops into. British Pay. From the Gentleman's Maga-
zine • lOl
List of the Members of the House of Commons who voted for
and against the Hanoverian Troops being taken into British
Pay 105
il. The King's Speech of Thanks for the Supply 105
1743.
Feb. 1. Debate in the Lords on takino the Hanoverian
Troops into British Pay 105
Another Report of the same Debate, from the Seeker Manuscript 105
Protest i^ainst taking the Hanoverian Troops mto British Pay... H^
Charitable Corporation Petition • H^
S2. Debate in the Lords on the Spirituous Liqabra BilL From the
London Magazine •••• • il^
Debate in the L<Nrds on the l^irituous Liquors Bill. From the
Gentleman's Magazine «•••••• • '• 1^
Another Report of die same Debate, from the Seeker Manuscript 139
2i. Debate in the Lords on committing the Spirituous Liquors Bill— ISO
Another Report of the same Debate, from the Seck«r Manuscript 136,
' S5. Debate in the Lords on the third reading of the Spirituous Liquors
Bill 142
Anotlier Report of the same Debate, from the Seeker Manuscript 14S
Protest against passing the Spirituous Liquors Bill ..••• 143*
II. ADDRESSES.
1741. April 9. Of the Lords, on the King's Speech for a Vote of Credit
in ^uppovt of the Pragmatic Sanction, and for a Sub-
sidy t» (be Queen of Himgwy ••»••••••••••.•... f 1^
TABLB OF CONtfiMT »
[AddmsescontitttieiLl Pagi
1741. April 9. Of the ConHMRtt M the Ki&g'i SpttA tbr a Vote of
Credit in support of the PraniaEtic Senctioo, and for
a Subaidy to the Q«een of HODgary..... 157
Dec 4. Ofthe Lords, on the King's Speech 288
Of the Commons, on the King's Speech 319
mi Msr.23. Ofthe Commons, of Confidence and Ftdelityto the King 586
Nov. 16. Of the Lords, on the lying's Speedi 851
OfdieCottiaiOAS, on die King's Speech 87f
III. KINGfS SPEfiCHfiS.
J7II. April 8. For a Vote of Credit in support of the Prannatic Sanc-
tion, and for a Subsidy to the Queen of Hungary 146
25. At the Close of the Session ]85
Dec 4. On Opening the Session. ;.;........ S21
I71S. July 15. At the Close of the Session 8S8
Not. 16. On Opening the Session 829
Dec21. Of Thanks for the Supply 1058
IV. KING S MESSAGES.
\M^ April 1. Concerning the Queen of Hungary 591
V. LISTS.
1741. Dec. 1. A List of the House of Commons m the Ninth Parlia-
ment of Great Britain » 19S
\1& Dec 10. A List of the Memhers of the House of Commons who
Voted ibr and agabst the Hanoyeriati Troops being
taken into British Fay 105S
VI. PARLIAMENTARY PAPERS.
f the BiD to indemnify Evidenbe again
ofOrford 6SB
17fiL May 19. Copy of the BiD to indemnify Evidenbe against Robert
20. Copy of the Bill for securing Trade and NaWgation in
Times of War - 74fi
VII. PROTESTS.
1741. Feb. 28. Against ri^ecting the Place BiU ...., 8
1748. Jan. 27. On mectoM^ a Resdution concerning the Absence of
Officeis nrom the Garrison c^ Minorca 309
May 25. Against not committing the Bill to indemnify Evidence
against the Earl ofOrford 711
1743. Feb. 1. Against taking the Hanoverian Troops into British Pay 1 180
25. Against passing the Spirituoiis Liquors Bill 1439
Vni. REPORTS.
1742. May 13. First Report of the Commiltee of Secre<7 appointed to
EnqwieiatotbtCoBdnot of Robert £ftl of Orited.,, OBB
IMDfiX OF NAMES*
DeUwar, [John West] Lord, 143, 640, 649,
755, 768, 1365.
Digby, Edirard, 140, 141, 541.
Fazftkerley, Nicholas, US.
FiDlater,£arlof, 143.
Fox, Henry, [in 1763, created Lard HoHtod}
97,99*197, 461,509,1630.
Fox, Stepben, 168, [ia 1741, crealed Lord
IlchesterandSbrangewayt. In 1756, created
Eari of Ilcbester,] 586
Gage, [Thomas Gage] ViacouQt, 43, 61, 93,
149, 167.
' Gore, Mr. 36.
GrenviUe, George, 1051.
Gybbon, Philip, 37, 79, 999.
Halifax, Eari of, 996.
Hardwioke, [Pfaittp Yoriie] Lord, 144, 159,
930, 977, 334, 389, 651, 691, 1067, 1164.
HiirringtOD, Lord, 997, 984.
Hartiogton, Lord, 853.
Hay, Willian, 107, 139, 149.
Herbert, Henry Arthur, [afterward* £aH of
Fowls] 990.
Herrey, [John Henrey] Lord, 339, 646, 667,
1063, 1109, 1193, 1956, 1984, 1994, 1995,
1369, 1374, 1381, 1404, 1493, 1495.
Hiisborongh, Eaii of, 7 16*
Hay, [Archibald Campbell] Eari of, 985. 708,
1939, 1946, 1948, 1991, 1300, 1366, 1369,
1373, 1377, 1418.
Ilchester, Lord, [Stephen Fox] 733.
Limerick, Eari of, 448, 496, 589, ^es.
Lonsdale, [Henry Lowther] Viscount, 334,
596, 1067, 1158, 1998, 1943, 1986, 1999,
1300, 1345, 1366, 1368, 1371, 1391, 1495,
1431, 1437.
Lockwood, Richard, 11, 99.
Lord Chancellor, tee Hardwicko.
Lovel, Lord, 931.
Lytteltoo, George (^created Lord LyttdteM in
1757] 89, 91, lie, 517, 584.
Malton, Eari of, 983,
Montfbft, [Henry Bromley] Lord, 839.
Mordaunt, Colonel, 598.
Newcastle, [Thomas Holies] Dohe ot; 143,
150, 998, 961, 381, 333, 595, 653, 698,
1066, 1145, 1979, 1300, 1360, 1371, 1399.
Norris, Sir John, 33, 36.
Nugent, Mr. 1038.
Onslow, Arthur, [the Speaher] 48, 196, 131,
138, 918, 919, 990.
Oxford, [Edward Harley] Bari of, 1186.
Oxford, Bishop of, (Dr. Thomas Seeker) 1905,
1896, 1397.
Pelham, Henry, 44, 64, 73, 118, 191, 195, ISl,
175, 914, 349, 473, 501.
Fsroefal, Loi4, [afterwarda Eari of EgmoMt]
370, 470, 511, 1048.
Perry, Micajah, 110.
PhiUipa, Air. 498^ 444, 460, 599, 611, 746,
918, 1014.
Fitt, WilKam, reraated ^naooant Pitt and
of Chatham m 1766] 104, 115, 117,
595, 553, 567, 1083.
F^wleMk LMid, 1094.
Piilteney, William* [crentea Earl of Bitl
1749147, 64, 78, 134, 159, 178, 304,
888, 579^
doareodon, Lord [aftertrarda Eari of L
field,] 50r, 977. 1097.
Raymond, Lord, 594, 85 1.
Ryder, Dudley, (Attorney General) 40,
113, 131.
Salisbury, Bitbop of, (Dr. Benjamin Hoid!
1935, 1300, 1368.
Scarborough, Eari of, 1184.
SandwiehrEari of, 601, 640, 1059, 1071, t
1379, 1398, 1491.
Sandys, Samuel, 37, 87,130,131,164,1
896, 915.
Selwyn, Major, 863.
Shaftasbnry, Earl of, 594.
Shippen, William, 170, 993.
Somerset, Lord Noel [afberwards Dole
Beaulbrt]999.
Southwell, Eilwani, 10, 47, 89.
Speaker, The, tee Arthur OdsIow.
Stanhope, Eari, 1058.
Strange, Lord, 739, 889, 999.
Talbot, Lord, 948, 646, 669, 1909, 1968, 13
1371, 1389.
Tracy, Robert, 40, 94.
Trevor, Mr. 991.
Tweedale, Marquis of, 833.
Finer, Mr. 60, 69, 96, 166, 172.
Wade, General, 37.
Wager, Sir Charles, 33, 71, 88, 96, 139, 1
141, 149, 458.
Waller, Edmund, 953.
Walpole, Sir Robert, [oreated in 1749, EvJ
Orford] 35, 47, 54, 68, 85, 98, 100, 1
124, 196, 138, 168, 174, 183, 303, 317.
Walpole, Horatio, [afterwards Lord Walpa
94, 99, 76, 114, 169, 164, 1036. <
Walpole, Horatio, [youngest son of Sir '^
berti 536, 968.
Walpole, Edward, 876. I
Westmoreland, [John Fane] Eari of, 849* {
Willimot, Mr. 90. I
Winchelsea, [Daniel Finch] Eari of, 153, 7i
789, 783.
Winnington, Thomas, i
118, 139, 356, 613.
Wynn, Sir Watkin Williams,
873.
Yonge,
lU
906.
49, 45, 46, 66, 75, i|
illiams, 361, 434, 8|
B, Sir William, 96, 41, 67, 74, 90, J
, 199, 136, 137, 367,499, 513, 572, «
i, 941, 1018.
Parliamentary History.
14 GEOBGfi THE SECOND,
A. D. 1741.
Debate » tke Lords on the Place
M*] Fdffoary 26, 1741. The order of
the dijbdog rmfor the second reading of
iBill eotitlcd, < An Act for the better ae«
cuifigthefineedom of parliaments by limit-
iag £ Domber of officers in the House of
CoouDoiH.' Hie said Bill was read a second
^, and it being naoved to commit the
BiB, die ttine was objected to. After de-
late, the question was pat. Whether the
* Am tke SECKER Mamucriptr
F«k IS. Tbe Plaee Bin mda
QM«in,wbctiierit8haUbe
Damtin Thii Bill is more cdcnlated to
Hp iW GwmsDa Iran depcwiaiioe than oor-
: it wmM bo a
ApaiisBiiiH ofa SSenai ^aiplee-
tiafrai the pramt, would be a giesl pohlic
kn rHcra be spoke in bis own dcfenoe.
Kit inpalatioo of betog influenced by a
Tht power of the CommoM bath to-
9aHi,aD4 taloBg away firom any other
bMditf tbel^Siara most increase tbdn.
l^Mi iMBSt Ibis Bill appear upon year
Mmdk Bsal nth Febraary» 1705.
lUy. lUdag fimn the crawn a power
^■ly ht indiiaolly used, is not destroying
^cMriiMisaal depesdanoe of the House.
^CooMDoos have often r^eoked this Bill.
'^Aer pssiit, when tbey are to seek the
^afthc^eoMlilBeotB. This they would
at 4 if Aiqr thought it a reflection onthem*
*& IsstesuntieB wiich sendOimeHi-
SikitiiehullOaiemployaBent lamihr
^(U^iiftrigllt BBl mils priasnt stale.:
■Bib it so.
H BcadtlieMtflirsecmiiigtkePMei*
iWA^nesd.
s.cos.
C.44, of wUeb lUiopaer Ohitater,
said Bill shall be committed? It was re-
solved in the negatire. Content 44. Not
'contflnt68.
ProteH on rejeeUng ike Place BilL2
The following Protest was thereupon en*
tered on the Journals :
** Dissentient' NorthampU^, Shafts-^
bury, Stanhope, Clifton.
1. ** Because we conceive» that our con*
stitution itself, points out this Bill i» one
of its principal securities ; a due poixe and
independency of the three several conati*
The ReajMio for this Bill is, that oTor grsat
dependeocy of the Cofflmons on the erown
mast be fatal, and pUoes during pleasure hate a
tendency to create tbii. Tbermre they may
be too many. Therefbre it may be useful to
restrain them.
Objection 1. Resentment or deshie of plaosa,
may mfluenoealso. But may not this influeDce
be connterbabinced by a restrained number of
places?
9. It is taking away the people's liberty to '
chose, and gentlemen's capacity to be choeen.
But this is done in many instances already.
And may be dene in more, if the public good
reouire. That, therefore, is the only question.
8. It will be expected thet'Ords should lie
under the same restiaints. And if these ap«
pear tbe same reasooi let' them. If not, too
case b not-parallel.
4. If the GomniOBS eannot have so msn^
places, they will get all the good ones. B^t
the rank and merit of tbe Loids will entitle them
to their ahare. At least the liberties of the.
nation are of more importbnoe than this.
5. It will bea seciirity to the nation thafr
persons ia |^aee will have an Jntemt in secfur*
mg tfae'privfleges of parliament But this *e-
cufity is from persons in great places, who will
atin he In parliament ; not from persons In
small ones, whose influence can do no good^
and whose votes, corruptly gireoi may do great .
harm.
^. There are not plaeesenoturii left. Com*
Btttitthen^andpatinmetek T68ay,sahatfc
[B]
3]
14 GEORGE U.
Debate in the Lordi ok the Place BiO.
C4
u
taent parts of the supreme legislative
power, being reauired by the spirit of our
constitution, ana absolutely necessary to
its existence. If any one of these be-
comes dependent on the other, the con-
stitution is dangerously altered, but if an^
two become depi^ndent cm the third, it is
totally subvcrfitod, and Hie wisest estal^lisk-
nf^nt that evet was foitaied ef a free gd-
vernment, shrinks and degenerates Into
a Monarchical and Aristocratical, or De-
mocratical fieu^tion. We therefore think
we cannot be too careftd m providing
against whatever may, at any time, a&ct
this just poize, ana necessary indepen-
d&acy of the three e«tate&» Aad thii
q^ution seems t^e vf^ate requisite, now,
when, from the inevitable v^riatio^ of
things, employments are become exceed-
iwly Dumerou^ and are jr^t further aft-
fuUy apht, divided* suibdivided, mi en-
creased in value, in prder to add both ex-
tent and weight to their influence. Two
httadred employments are dislrftmted in
the present House of Commons 1 a dan-
gerous circumstance: and which, if it
could have befen foretold to our ancestors
even in the latter end ef the last century,
the predictioti would have been rejected
by them* ttB chimerical ; or, if believed,
lamented as fhtal. And, shoved the num-
ber of employments continue to increase
in the same proportion, even ive may live
to see, for want of this BUI, a constant
li^en said on aootber occasion, that it hath been
ia effect committed alrea4y, is destroyii^ the
ahcient and usefal forms of proceeding in this
Ifouse. . •
7. It condemns his majesty's admiDisU*ation.
No. It is only a provision against future
dangers. And if they are supposable ones, the
speediest [provision is the wisest. The better
the administration is^ the likelier this will be to
pass.
.8. It is altering the constitution. No. It is
only carrying what hath been done somewhat
fa/!:ther. , T& inorease of places is altering our
constitution. And a balance must be found to
that.
. 'When the £?il is become ¥ery great, such a
Bill will not pass • It hath now for once passed
the CojnmoQs.. If with a desire that it should
MM hcrej why should it not ? But doth any
Dody think now, that the Commons expect
: great matters to themselves from this BiU, and
want it to pass? And if they want the contrary,
how are we treated, and shall we consult our
own honour by doing nnpopular work for them ?
There is no instance cf toch complaisance on
their side. And this amongst Qthei» wontd W
a very wibqg ona on ours.
majorTty c£ placemen meeting under die
name of a parliament, to establish griev-
ances, instead of redressing them ; to
approve implicitly the measures of a court,
without information ; to support and ac^reen
the ministers they ought to controul cnr
punish ; and to grtot money wifeiko^
accouDt ; or it may be withoi|t b<^uni||.
In which cane, the remaii^g fottm of ottr
constitution would, by creatm^ a fatal de-
lusion, become our greatest grievance.
** 2. Though we do not absolutely as-
sert, that employments necessarily must,
yet we cannot suppose, that they never
will influence the votes and conduct of the
gentlemen of the Houee ^ tkuonoi^ns ^ for
such a supposition would be equaUy con-
cluuve against all Uie aotSi^of pariiament
no^ in force, lini^itio^ the nuipher of pA*
cers of any kind in ttiat House. And» in
a case of such importance, we think it
would be the highest imprudence, to trqst
the very being of our constatution to bare
possibilities; especially if an experience^
which we rather chuse to hint 2f. than en-
large upon, should give us just reason to
suspect that fbrmer parliaments have filt
the effect of this baneful influence; al-
most all persons in employments baring
voted invariably on the same side of ilie
question, often against theloiown and sig«-
nified aevia of thcar ooiasliroeatB, aiAd
schneCMes 'perhaps even centsary to their
qwu private declarations; and 90 aoain^r
did any preeume to deviate from th0 mj^,
histerial traek^ than they were dii^estad ^
those employments that failed ef thaw un*
tended intaence. But, adittittiDg that
the present House of Commons i& ^^P^
itself most unttiintedlty pure from such pdi-
lution; yet we think it necessary, not to
expose future parliaments to such a trial,
nor the. coostitutiim to ^e unc^rt^jioty ^
tbe deoiaioa«
<< 3. BeoaMse, though it ahould be
gmated^ that thi» Bttt would haiFe re-
strained in some de^ee the liberty of the.
efectors, that objection has no weight upon
this occasion; every law being, in some
degrees & restraint upon the natural liberty
of Qian, but yet }\mfy enacted, wherevei:
,thegood of the w]M>le (which should he
the object of every \$m\ is pronaoted these-
by ; and we nf^Khend, that this restraint
is of such a nature, that those only wUl be
uneasy under it who intended to abuse
the liberty. The votes of the electors of
Great Britain, if unbiassed, would rarely
concur in the choice* of persoiis ^owed
creatures of a minister, known diq^ndants
«J
t>4Mi»*M Ldftbon m rtiue M.
A. tf. iTih
id
08 a eomt, ind titteity <iiA:ii6wb td those
vlw dect tieft. Baft i^, in aii ti^ >r)ien
ksnry kknlefe eomiptkMt, «tid corruption
fee^ lanty, .there fe too much reason
to fesr, that the people may be prevailed
np«i, m many places by a pecuniary In-
iaoee} to gite their votes to tliose whom
their omfrfheneed liestimehts would reject
mtli M^nstion or contempt; we think
knuemry to lay this just and constitu-
te restrsiiit upon the liberties of some,
as the ooly means to preserve the liberties
of ill 1^ former acts of parliament, the
dedttvtfe ah'eadT debarred from elect-
iBf pefMBsm certum considen^hle employ-
matt: sod in the Act fbr preserving our
CoostitudoD, by settling die crown upon
theprattnt royal fbmfly, it wds enacted,
^IhA as person whatsoever in employ-
* cMt should be capable of beipg chosen
* a member of the House of Cmnmons.*
Such was tlttn the spirit of iiberty, t!?at
CPTO tiiis total exclusion codd not be re-
used; ner eodd the repeal of it after-
*irds be obtained, wi^out enacting a H-
nitadsB of the nuniber of placemen al-
lovcitontitt die Hotfse of Comtnorfs,
iodanew election of every person who,
virikthe was a mcnaber or mat House,
Aodd aeeept of any employment under
t&ecmm; aa likewise a totid (we wish
ve cwU t^ n eflbctual ) exchjsion 0f aH
psfsoM boHKng employments erected
•we the pas^A^ of that act. And
tfaneiiiMi reason to^oobt, hot that the
Me spirit of pecautton woidd, npon the
flBecoBstitotioAal prineiples, fiftve been
ctrnedflocfa fardier at teat time, could
ttehavebeeii fdreseep or imagined, that
tbe itdosion ci some civil o|B^rs would
^e beea rendered useless, by the intro-
^Bcti«Q of w> many miUtary ones ; and so
suTMsotts in enqpioyments, iafinitely in*
i»or bodi in rank and profit to those ex-
<M1 by liiese aevend acts, could ever
Wbeeaby any means elected into par-
'^t And iftideed it seems to us
^y incoBgnious, liiat inferior clerks
tBdatteodaits of offices, who have not
*Bti in die preaence t>f their masters,
iJ'wMbe adfloilted to have seats in the
^■istaie, and tfaerelbre becoine die
^ SDd ooBtroal of their masters them->
^ ** Because we do not apprdiend that
*<^eedom <^ pariiamettt js now in the
^secared, fay the ab%8tioa lahl upon
'•tiAeTs of dke House of Commons,
•» KosBt ttiy employment under the
i^Hdected ; experience
having '^evim lis, th^t ttr]^ seeming seen*
ritjris for the most patt become meffec-
ttml, diere bein^ very feir instances of per-
sons ftjling in such re-elections, though
utter strangers to their electors. And it is
natural to suppose, that, when the meana
of porruptit)g are greater, the success of
the canaidate recommepding hiniself by
corruption only will not be less.
5. ^* Because we observe with copcem,
that a Bin of this nature has been already
thrice rejected by this very House of Comi-«
nrons, and not been allowed to be con^*
mrtted, so as to have ^ it known how far it
was proposed to extend; ^ich, ip our
r* ions, implied a fifm resoAution ncft to
it of any ftirther exclusion of employ*
ments whatsoever : whereas, in this lasi
i^ession of this pariiament, this Qill v^s sent
up to us, after having P^^^d through A
the forms of the other House wiAout the
least (position. This, we conceive can
only proceed, either from their conviction
at last of the necessity of such a bill, of
whichthey are sureljr the oroperest judges j
or, in compliance with tne mmost univjer^
sal instructions of their constituei^ts, whose
voice, we Uihik, ought to hive some weight
even here ; or lastly, to delude their con-
stituents themselves, by tadtlv consenting
to what they were either tola, or hoped;
this Hovse would refuse. And, in this
case, we apprehend, that a confidence so
injurious ana dishonourable, ought to hav0
been disappointed, fVom a just sense of the
contempt thereby shewn of the credit^
weight, and dignity, of this House.
6. ** Because we think it particultU'ly
teasonabte, so ne;ar the end of this paAiaK^
ment, to provide for the freedom and inde-
pendency of the next : and as we considef
this opportunity as tlie only one we a^
likely to have, mr some years at least, to
do it ; it is with the greater concern that
we see this Bill thus laid aside, rather by a
division than a debate, and by pumliers
rather tfian arguments. But, however un*
successful our endeavours have been for
the future security of this constitution t
however unavailing our desire of enquiring
into past and present trantoctions ; how-
ever fruitless our attempts to prevent fn*
ture mismanagements, by a 6enSure of the
past, and the removal of the author 6t
them ; we have at least this comfort of
trapsmittine our names to posterit}\ ai
dissenting ttom those measures, of which
the present age sufficiently testifies its dis«
like^ and of ^ch'the next qii^ too jMroba->
bly feel the fiital consequences, (^ntd)
7J U OBOB6E II.
' AbingdQnyBridgwater,HaTenhioi>
Macdesfieldy Grreenwichy Hereford,
. Ajlesfordy Warrington, Bruce, B«
l.itch. and Coventry, tlarlide, Tal-
bot, Gower, Ward, Mansel, Cdb*
ham, Chesterfield, Masham, Hali«
fax, Denbigh; ' For all the abore
* Reasons except the last, Folejri"
Ordered, that the said Bill be rejected.
Debate in the Commons on the BiU tp
prevent the tneowoeniencies aridngfrrmi the
Insurance of iSA*)w.*] February 27. A
Bill to explain and amend so much of an
Act, made in the 6th of king George 1,
intituled, An Act for bietter securing cer-
tain powers and privileges, intended to be
cranted by his majesty, by two charters,
for' Assurance of Ships, and Merchandizes
at sea ; and for lendmg money upon Bot^
tomry ; and for restraining several extra-
vagant and unwarrantable practices therein
mentioned, as relates to the extravagant
and unwarrantable practices therein men-
tioned, was read a second time, and gave
rise to the following Debate :
Sir John Barnard :
Sir; there ciginot be brought before
this House any questions more difficult in
themselves, more entangled with a multi-
'plicity of relations, or more perplexed with
an endless diversity of circumstatices, than
those which relate to commercial affairs ;
affairs on which the most experienced often
disagree, and on which the most sagacious
may deceive themselves with erroneous
conjectures.
There are no qu^tions. Sir, which re-
quire so much personal knowledge of the
8i4>jcct to which they relate, nor is there
any subject with which so few gentlemen
in this House have had opportunities of
being acquainted. There are no ques-
tions. Sir, which their variety of relations
to different persons exposes to be so easily
misrepresented without detection, nor any
in which the opposition of particular in-
tierests, so much incites a false represen-
tation. In all these cases, deceit is easy,
and there is a strong temptation to deceive.
Nor are these questions. Sir, always
perplexed by intentional fraud, or false as-
serdons, of wlilch they that utter them
. are. themselves conscious*
Those who deceive us, do not always
snppress sfiy truth of which they are con-
vinced, or set facts before us in any other'
* From the Gentleman's Msgaaioe :
piled by Dr. Johnson.
Deiai$mikeamnmfmiikiBai {S
light, dian that in whieb ttansdvaa ber
hold them; th^ for the most part err witb
an honest intention', and propimte no mia^
takes but thbsjs which th^F nave tkem-
selves admitted. •
Of this kind, Sir, are doubtless the mea^
sures proposed in the Bill before us, whid(
those by whom they are promot»l, nugr
easily think to be' of benefit to the publi^
but which, I believei, will appear the veauk
of imperfect views, and partial coaai-
deration..
The great and fundamental error. Sir*
«of the patrons of this Bill, seems to be aa
opinion, that the practice of insuring is not
known to other nations, nor can be carried
on in any other place, and from this fHriii*
ciple they deduce consequences, whicb^ if
they were inevitably certain, might eenl^
influence us to an unmediate approbation
of the Bill, as necessajry to secure oar como'
merce, and distress our enemies.
They conclude. Sir, with sufficient j^^
ness, that very few merchants would
hazud their fortunes m long voyagea or
distant commerce, or exi>ose themaelvea
to the dangers of war, without security^'
which insurances afford them, and having
persuaded themselves that such securi^ ia
to be obtained from no other nation^ tliey
imaffine that we might, by prohibiting itf
confine all the foreign vesseb in their
ports, and destroy by one resdution the
trade of both our rivak and our enemiea.
That our East-Indian company may
desire the ratification of this Bill, I ^amnot
deny, because they might nerhi^ receive
from it some temporary aavantage by the
short inconveniencies which those ^hoio
they consider as the enemies of their cimi-
merce would feel from it They may de-
sbe it, because the. experiment, if it fails,
as it must, cannot injure them : and if ^it
succeeds, may produce great advantages
to them ; they may wish it, because they
will feel the unmediate benefit, and tfa^
detriment will fall upon others.
I shall not enquire whether our mer-
chants are inclined to look with malevo-
lence on all those who cultivate the same
branches of commerce with themselves,
though they have neither tlie violation of
natural rights, nor the infringement of
national treaties to complain of. I 6houI4
be unwilling to.su^ect a British mer*
chai^t, ^hpse acquaintance with the con*
stitution of his own country ought <e
shew him the value of liberty, who ought
to be above -narrow schemes, by the ki^ovr*
ledge whigh his profession enfibles him 4o
€om<
toneenm^ ike JntUtanee qfS^i
oft desiveto encroach upon' the
n
MB, of t kan to encroacD upon »»
Sto tf odiei% or to engross the general
Iqtffiia of Mtiiiei and sbill only observe^
itfiemal odier nations can plead a claim
Hthe East-Iadian tiadei a claim of equal
pUitv w^ our own. That the Danes
^udrsetlJements there, and that the
ipiiiiieot disoyvered the way to those
■MDi of wealthy from which some per-
toiiR iD^^ to exclude them,
Bol Dotbiog is more vam than to attempt
leulocle than by refusing to ensure their
In becsnie the opinion that they can
I nniedbjr no other nation is entirely
j^MMi fdioidation. There are» at this
'mtt 9toe$ of insurance along the whole
tutflfthemidland sea, among the Dutch,
idefwiinoof; the French. Nothing can
^ 107 nation from the trade cS* in-
Dmioe \^i the want of money, and that
B0 not wa^ted by foreigners, for
ipcse, appears from the great sums
Udilbsf hare deposited in our funds,
llsttiiis trade isnow carried on, chiefly
f tbii oslioD, though not solely, is incon«
Klftle; but whac can be inferred from
bt, but that we ought not to obstruct our
iogn; that we ought not to make a
w to ii^m ourselves of that advantage,
f vUi either favourable accidents or
V ova fl^ty have put us in possession.
For this r^tton it appears, that it would
ttMotiimte to the wealth of the public
^(khirui from insuring the ships, even
FthoRwith whom we are at war, for it
iihRjn to be remembered that they will
|cnie so detriment fironi such prohibi-
^BorwiUfeel any other conseauence
Mdm than a necessity of tFansterring
)9mt9Aat nation the profit whicbwe
Mnefismit.
Wist die profit is which arises to the
Vin ham the trade of insurance, it is
II powble jezacthr to determine; but
latlie trade is lealljr advantageous may
inaionaUy emiceived, bemuse after
■j yean experience it is diligently fol-
M,andahwwas neverneoessarvtopro-
litdie iNuniit of a business, by which no»
JBgvaitobe gained. But could the gain
[aeiniver be a doubtful p<Mnt, there is
CBtain advantage to the nation by the
PPty paid lor commission, brokerage,
M and the credit of the premium
b&dhere.
Ini^add, Sir, another considerable
IBJttdy arisinff from die addiUonal
IMmoccaiiooedby thia trad^ whidi ia-
pMe the reveouea of the poet office, with-
itfeydsdnctMin finr additiocud diargei
A. D. 1741.
[W
That the loss of this profit, and the I
of insuring, will ensue unon the ratil
don of this Bill, cannot be denied ; nor
does it appear, that this loss will be ceun-
terbalanced by any advantages that irill
be gained over omr rivals or our enemies*
Whether this Bill, Sir, would produce
to the merchants of that city by which it
is promoted, the advantages which they
expect from it, or remove any of the griev-
ances of which they complain, I am not
able positively to detennme ; but know,
that it is not uncommon for merchants, aa
w^ll as other men, to confound private
with public grievances, and to imagine
their own interest the interest of the na-
tion.
With regard, Sir, to the practice of in-
suring, * interest or no interest,' as the
term is, when an imaginary value is put
upon the ship or cargo, offen much above
its real wortn, it cannot be denied, that
some opportunities may be given by it for ,
wicked practices. But there will always
be circumstances m which there can be no
security against frauds, but common fidth ;
nor do I see how we can secure the m-
surers against the possibility of bemg de^
frauded.
I cannot indeed discover. Sir, bow this
method of insuring can.be prevented; tot
how can the value of a cargo be estimated,*
which is to be collected in a long voyage^
at different ports, and where the success
of the ' adventures ofien depends upon
lucky accidents, which are indeed alwaya
hoped for, but seldom happen. An ima*
ginary value must therefore be fixed upon,
when the ship leaves the port; because-
the success otthat voyage. cannot be fore*
known, and the contracting jparties majr
be safely trusted to set that value, without
any law to direct or restrain them.
If the merchants are oppress^ by ai^
peculiar incmiveniences, and can find
means of redressmgthem without injuring
the public coimmerce, any proponl for
that purpose ought to be favourably re»
ceived ; but as the Bill now before us pro- -
poses general restraints, and proposes to
remove grievances, which are not felt, by
remedies, which those* upon whom they
are to operate, do not mprove, I think it
ought not to be referred to a comnuttee*^
but rqected.
' Mr. Souihmdlf
Sir; when I first proposed thli Bill to
the House, I lamented Oe absence of that
lum. gentienatt^ firom .whose diseuaaiont
16J
U GEORGE IL
Dekle in Ae Commmt on Oe Bill
Bat that thit is the coiiMquence of
esUnuitiog shijps at an inuigiiiary value io
the offices of iii8ttr«nce» is to the highest
degree evident. When a ship is estimated
above its real vidue, how will the com-
mander suffer by a wrecks or what shall
restrain him from destroying his vessel,
when ii may be done with security to him-
self, except that integrity, which indeed
pught to be generally diffused, but which
is not always to be found, and to which
few men think it safe to trust upon occa-
simis of lar less importance ?
To shew, Sir, that 1 do not indulge
groundless suspicions, ormajptify the bi?e
|}ossibility of ftaud into reality 3 that I do
not blacaen human nature, or propose
laws asainst wickedness that have not yet
existed, it majjr be proper to mention some
letters, in which I have been informed by
m correspondent at Leghorn, c^the state
of the ships which have arrived there :
ships so wc»kly manned, and so penurious-
ly, or negligently stored; somuchdecajred
in the oottoms, and so iU fitted with rig-
ging, that he declares his astonishment at
Sieir arrivaL
. It may deserve our consideration. Sir,
whether the success of the Spanish pri-
vateers may not be in great part attributed
to this pernicious practice ; whether cnp-
Uuns, when their vesseb are insured for
more than their value, do not rashly ven-
ture into known danger? Whether they
do not wilfully miss the security of oon-
, voys ? y^ether they do not direct their
courses where privateers may most se-
curely cruise ? Whether they do not sur-
render with less resistance than interest
irottld eicdte ? And whether they do not
laiae damours against the eovemment for
their ill success, to avoid uie suspicion of
ses^gence or fraud.
That other frauds are committed in the
practioe of insuring, is well known to the
non. ^deman who qwke against the
Bill: It is a common practice to take mo-
ney upon bottoqanr, by way" of pledge for
the captain's fiddfity, and to destroy this
security by insuring the real value, so that
the captain may gain by neglecting the
car^ or his vessel, or at least secure him-
aelf from leas, ai^d indulge his ease or his
aleasttie, Hi^out any interruption from the
feiwif jiLpgf^iahing his fortune.
The wHole practice of insurance, Sir, is
<A its 'present stafe^ I believe, so perplexed
^'itl^nvuds, aodof atich manifest tendency
^ the obitrufltiao of commerce, that it
absolutely i^uirea aonae kgal regulations^
Sir John Barnard :
Sir; of frauds in the practice 01!
surance, with regard to which tJie I
gentleman has appealed to me, I c&n j
fidentiy affirm, that 1 am totally ignm
I know not of any fraudulent jpi-aej
openly carried on, or establisheo by |
torn, which I suppose are meant z for 1
r^^rd to single acts of fr^ud, cotnniil
by particukv men, it is not to be suppi
but that they have been detecte<I in j
as in all other branches of traffic ; nor
I conceive that an^ arwament <
drawn from them against ue practi<
if every part of commerce is to i>e j|
hibited, which has fumiahed viUftixis M
opportunities of deceit, wp aliaD conti
traide into a narrow compass.
With regard. Sir, to Uie instance of
Royal George, though the proceedin^j
the officers arenot wholly to be vtiKiirg^il
yet part of their conauct ia less ii^
^cable than it has been represasntl
Their return* to Antigua wh^n thev vJ
bound for England, and were intbi^
week's sailing <^ their port, ia easily toj
defendjed, if uie wind was contrary to di
intended course ; for it is 60a difficalt
conceive that they might reach a distj
port with a favourable irind, much sooj
than one mudi nearer, With the vr|
against them. -
1 have always observed, Sir^ that i
gsntlemen engaged in the toade to i
East Indies, assume an air of auperior^
to which 1 know not what daim tlvy ^
produce, and seem to imagioe, Aat tl^
charter gives them more extanaiwe knci
ledge, and mare acute sagadty , than fsi
to the lot of men not combined in th\
association.
But however these gendemen may dj
sf^NHove jny aigumente, and however tb
may misrepresent them, I shall he aatisfi^
that they will have witli the diainterestt
and impartial their just wewht, and tJt\
this affidr wiH not be ha8U& detcnntnl
upon an imperfect i»wy;|Ti^tmn
Sur Bpberi Walpole :
Sir; whether the^merchottCaare satiafii
with the present methods of toaunnsri
what is the Opinion of atfy amante hoi
of men, I think it abadiittely ^ieGe»S
to enquire. We are constatuted for tl
public advantage^ and are engaged bv oi
parliamentany diaracttr to conaider, n\
the pnvate mlersat of i^urftfcidar men. U
th^ genetal advant^(e of our Muatry.
ttmemAig tke Jnsuranu qfShips*
m
la our Donoity Sir, of national interest,
ve iboola be obliced frequently to oppose
tliesdienieswhldn private men, or sepa-
rate fraternities have formed for their own
adraiitagey and whiph they maj be ex-
pected to defend with all their art ; both
became everv man is unwilling to imagine
that the public interest and his own are
opposite, and because it b to be feared that
nan J may consider the public only in sub-
oidioadoQ to themselves, and be very little
jofidtotta about the general prosperity of
their couatiTy provided none of the cala-
mitiei vhich afflict it extend their influ-
ence to diemsdves.
We are, in the discussion of this ques-
tioo, Sir, to consider that we are engaged
inavar against a nation from which in-
sults, depredations, oppressions, and cru-
elties, hare been long complained of, and
against wbich we are therefore to act with
a reaolntion proportioned to the injuries
ve hare sufllerea, and to our desire of
wnwancej We are to practise every me-
thod of di^essmg them, and to promote
the SQcceaa of our arms even at the ex-
pnee of present gain and the interest of
pQTatemeiL
It b well known. Sir, to all who have
either heard or read of the Spaniards, that
t^ fiv« in carelessness and indolence,
negiect ail the natural advantages of tJieir
<wn cotmtiy, despise the gain of foreign
cannerce, and depend wholly on their
Aaiencaa settlementa, for all the conve-
ciadet, and perhaps for most of the ne-
owneaoflife.
Ilus is the particular circumstance that
mkesa war with Enghmd so much to be
<^(>ded by them. A nation superior to
^hy sea holds them besieged, like a
pniwa surrounded by an army, pre-
dodes them from supplies, intercepts their
[^icceoia, and if it cannot force their walls
% attack, can at least by a blockade
Aarrethem to a capitulation.
^^ Sir, by a naval war with an enemy
^superior strnigth,theT must at length
be subdued, and subdued perhaps without
I battle, and without the possibility of
"Stance: aguDst such an enemy, their
WM^ or their discipline is of no use ;
wty may form annies indeed, but which
ojn only Btand i^on the shore, to defend
^ ifcir enenues have no intention of
and see those ships seized in
pay is treasured, or their pro-
"«»• are stored,
SoA,Sir,js our natural superiority over
tbe Spaniards, a species of superiority that
[YOUXILJ •
A. D. 1741.
[18
irhidi
must inevitably prevail, if it be not de-
feated by our own folly r and surely a
more effectual method of defeating it, the
Spaniards themselves could not have dis-
covered, than that of insuring their ships
ampng our merchants.
When a ship tiius insured is taken,
which, notwithstanding all precautions
must sometimes happen, we examine the
cargo, find it extremely valuable, and tri-
umph in our success ; we not only count
the gain to ourselves, but the loss to our
enemies, and determine that a small num-
ber of such captures will reduce them to
offer us peace upon our own terms.
Such are the conclusions which are
made, and made with reason, by men un-
acquainted with the secret practices of
our merchants, and who do not suspect ua
to be stupid enough to secure our ene- .
mies against ourselves, but it is often found,
upon a more close examination, that our
ships of war have only plundered our mer-
chants, and that our privateers maj in-
deed have enriched themselves, but impo-
verished their country. . It is discovered,
that the loss of tlie Spaniards is to be
repaid, and perhaps sometimes with in-
terest, Inr the British insurers.
If it be urged, that we ought not to
eiuict any laws which may obstruct the
gain of our fellow subjects, may it not be
asked, why all trade with Spain is prohi-
bited, may not the trade be equally gain-
ful with the insurance, and may not the
gain be more generally distributed, and
therefore be more properlv national ? .
But this trade was pronibited, because
it was more necessary to our enemies,
than ourselves ; it was prohibited, becausa
the laws of war require, that a less evil
should be suffered to inflict agreater : it is
upon tibis principle that every battle ia
fought, and that we fire our own ships to
consume the navies of the enemy.
For this reason. Sir, it appears to me
evident beyond contradiction, that the in-
surance of Spanish ships ought to be pro-
hibited ; we shall indeed lose the profit of
the insurance, but we shall be re-imbursed
by the captures, which is an argument that
cannot be produced for the prohibitjon of
commerce.
It is urged, Sir, that they may insure
their ships in other countries, an assertion
of which, whether it be true or not, 1 am
not able to decide ; but it is acknowledged,
that the necessity of establishing a new
correspondence will be at least a tem-
porary obstruction of their trade, and an
^93
14'«ffiOftOA II.
]MiU Ai^ CbHUimm flis JKB
ti
obstruction of eren a thort cohtinuziiice
inay lay them fit our mercy.
But let UBy Sir, reflect upon the ^eak-
TX^tfi of this argument ; ^ they mn^ be id-
'* lowed to insure here, because tkey may
< insure in other places ;* wiH it not be
^qi^iAy just to urge, that * they must trade
* with uSy because tfaey may trade with
* other nations V And may it not be an-
liwered, that though we cannot whoHy sus-
pend theur commerce, it is yet our biisiness
to obstruct it as far as we are Me i
May it not, ISir, be fidrther affirmed, that
1>y insuring in other nations, they may in-
jure their allies by ftlHng into our hands,
Dut do not the less benefit us ? That if
they do not grow wedcer, we atleaM are
strengthened ; but that by insuring amon|;
us^ whaterer steps are takep, the equ&i-
1)rium of the war is preserved always the
aame.
It is asserted, and I suppo^ with truth,
Hiat we insure at a lower rate than others,
^nd it will therefore follow, that the Spa-
iifards, whenever their ships .should escape
us, will ^ffer more by bavmg insured
amongst foreigners, than if they nad con-
tract^ wi& our merchants.
Thus it appears. Sir, that (here are
stronger reasons for prdhibfting die in-
surance of Spanish ships, than for putting
It stop to our commerce with theAi ; and
that whether their ships are tdcen by U9,
or escape us, it is the general kiterest of
the tiation, that they £aXL be insured by ,
^foreim merchants.
Vmi respect. Sir, to die East Indm
company, I have no regard to their inte-
•^est^ considered as distinct fitHn that of
the test of the nation ; nor have received
tey solicitations from them to promote
th(s Bill, or to espouse their iht^riest ; but
cannot, without coi^cealing my real senti-
ments, deny that,, j^ they have the giant
of an exclusive trad^ to die East Indies,
to insure the ships that are sent thither,
without their permission, is to invade their
rights, and to infringe their charter ; and
that this practice, if the validity of their
charter be admitted, is illegal and ought
to be discountenanced*
The practice, Sir, of insuring, * interest
* or no interest^' or of assjgnmg to ships
'm imaginary value, is nothins more than
'a particular game, a more solemn spepies
'or hazard, and ought therefore to be pro-
hibited, for every reason tluit can be Mtged
i^inst games of chance.
With reprd to diis Bill in geperal, it is
^fa my •pimon U^y necessary^ nor CfBi I
discorrer any importabt objection 'flia^^
be made again«ft it Some law of tA
kind, and to fhSs pui^os^, I have lonj^ ^
tended to offbr to Che consideration oTtll
assembly, and since it is now before tis,
diink we oughtto consider it with the fttted
don,whi^nii|y'be ju^y expiated fr^tttt
Lord AxAiMors /
Sir; Iknow not how property the ^^
dee of insurii^ vsm be termed a sped
of hazard: nor do i think any thing mo
is to be considered, than vi^eUierthe ga»
be gainful to ihenation, or not ; 'for i ca
not discover that ther^ is any shsurditv
enriching ourselves at the expence of oth
nadpns, whedier enemies or iffies. fFh
we ought to prefer the cenerd "g^xtd '
the advantage ofindividuus, is.undotJd>te<
but I cannot conceive that, in diis cas
ther^ can be any opposidon between pi
vate and public interest. If our insiire
gaki by securing ^e ships of our enemic
die nation is benefited, for ail nadonalj^
must circulate through the hands of mc
viduids.
Ne man will assert Oat we ought to t
sist our enemies, nor will any mati ipn
nne that we assist them by impov^i^Aii
diem ; and if our insurers gam by the
practice, thelSpaniards mfost undoidited
be losers.
Mr. Wilii$Hat :
Sir; I have conversed on die 'jtie^
to whicli thb Bill relates, with men e
caged in various kinds of traffic, and wl
have no common interest but that dftj^
country. I have dispersed among* tl
inerdiants, most eminent for dieir s
quannfeanoe with the whole extent of eol
meroe, and forth^lcnowled|^e of die tr
interest of die nation, copies of this^BJ
and cannot find any of diem so senc^e
the grievances, of which we luve so los
complaints, as to desire th^ it rfioul^i
redressed by the measures now propoac
ThatfraudsarepractisedoQ every bU
in diis; as wen as in other grades, the,g
neval eerrupdon pf our age gives us std
dent reason to suspect; but what is coi
mon to •eyeiy sort of traffic, cannot be pr
duce^ as ah argument for the prohibitii
of any.
Hiat the practice of insuring an imac
nary value, may give opportunity f
greater frauds man can be practised
common dealings, is likewise evident, b
r cannot discover sudi frauds as to requi
the interpoflitiott of the Jegidatvre*
m
4|.»<l»i^
m
11 Qur insuren are lAt^imuueu
re^Den» tbe nation it then, indeed
oiiitjf ifeel9As bftf, eiM i«i thai
KUfieMMMiiib^ied, ttoltbt prii
iTHiytPa pwNpe4 911)7 by Am «kf
M 10 te ttwalif Bwwhe4 in the oowr^
«{ diiinil j«ft4c% W the ciw^om whi(A^
ym Ih iMHrtqnttir ^ praotisiag it,
oailtt M IP liB reslNrilf fdv «i^ SEKHre th^o
bat fiaUe to accidental aSupiWi
If our inauren are defrauded by fo-
? — A — .-'^^ i^ -1.^ indeed, inore
oaie^it
nrivate ]»•
temtoltki iDiaien^ wl^ oMb d# aame-
dkid^ miDcd> ia a aoSoieni seo wty for
d^pafalic. For il caMoly 13k> becon-
oBisdibai w man wiU ohBtioatdy cayry
OB ibvMNMby whksb he becoaMa evoiy
Spoffff ; or that, whan he deaiat^ he
wiacMdadby «notherf who cannot
bittloMMrtiHit he engflfflit in that traffic ta
^eatttam,
Tkfi ttiia stiMto of thi9 aiair »f that
^M^ «n^ indeed* often cewwiittedy and
irefiirthitreaaonaiwaja aiiap^eted» and
tte Ae iQii«eia» when they ioawre tbe
ship ind caigo againaC . accidents^ reckcHif
BBOBg 9(b«r cb^aciQ^ Ihe j^fobabilUy of
ben cheated^ end pfopertion their de-
MBii»B9teaiy to the length apd danseE
«f tlie TajagOf but t<^ the chaiacter liie^
fae of ihe Bwa wit|i whoD> they contrfict.
lUs, Sir, ia alvaya tbe pnietice of UuMe
^ espeneace ban mAf^ aoqifaiBted
*i&<U mnun of ini|^UpitcQnfi49n«)e,and
MHBpcitiag otdulity, oer do «Mfiy but the
5^ and imkilAil mfikx tb^nna^lv^ l(>
Wioofwedtofrandci ^a thet Uieiir for-
ties iImiiiU be i<i\jiived« or tbe general
TOO of their bwinaif over*b9lEvace4i by 4
lewdeoeitf.
^ it affeaia, th^ i^etpn^hatanding
tl^ OM ind safety with^ which the nr^fent
BeckodB ef in^uraoc^ ^dn^t fnMi^ to bo
P|«^«d, the iosureiB,. by a proportionate
«gRe <Jf cMi^, ^ecvie theinaelve^ froni
Mig iajwod, a»4 by ^flMPV^^oe Ht^
ThiMeooe of £mi89 »hv« ipnovijo
««widored, by whipb ffPOAt p^ «mo»
Illation. We tomre, 9ir, e^ ilbas
«• oONrTed» et lover iim» than ptfa^r
•ftii»» Wewae w^ hiiYo par^ bMWW (rf
*«ni» Md thf eMdteoM 9f our prp4t w
MMMriibydie^WBtfys Afcbmn
^ tf QppiaQce% and CMfrmig of 1^
Spn la hii«rolieipe» fMp9C9lly opn-
**<•<# fli*eiber; wk^oMi «*1W
^b«M«e iDiHo ili»«ii UNi «a4
wf o«a Mm^tii w ow^ratfitftboceuaaw^
are^ofte^^ayl^dtp.
((or u ehe. chewo^w «^ Brltl^b ifia«h.
tms^ thf onl^ ni«tt«i^ to tbe pce&r^(;e
wmqb & prenervaa ai^o^ig fqreieoanb who
are iaddced to. cvP^i^ thii^natiod, bj^ t^f.
reputation whicn o^t melrcb/iAti^ hair^ d^
served^ gf(ined, for probity ^nd pupptu-
alfty, siqperior to that of vxj. otbdr tr^dera^
Qur mei!chaats. Sir, bargain withoHt g^^.
fice, pay witbom aubt^rfugeiB, «i4 we?
ready on all occauona to preserve th^
ch^acter «t the ba^^ari o^ their pro^
Fi^om these two consi46ifi|tiQPa we migf.
draw ^aan8w^able argumei»t» against an^
restraints i^on the practice oiTinfiuriAg ; $
foreij^ers erO onoe disappointed in theif
applications to us* our business will in 4,
greal part ce^se ; an4>Vwe6^aAnot thei^
be able to. insure at Wer rates than othep
nations, we shall sever recover th^ brancbt
of pur trade. And %» tho character o( lint
Ei^glisb merchimts exempts t^em frppi ifof
suspicion of practiQCs pemicious to tha
public, why should they ()e r^tr^^ne^ ^
Why, Sir, should they appear to be' ws^
pected by the leeisl^ure of thek: owq
cpuotry, whom foreign^ tni^t witl^Q[ijj|l|
hesitation?
It h^ bei^n objected to them vith gi^eikfc
warmth, and urged with much rhetprici4
exaggeration, that they assist the enemi^
of their country, that tiiiey jroloag thipi
wajCy and d^fofit those advantages whi^
our ^tuation and commerce hay^ given m^
Io(iputatioBs fufEciently atrocioqft if ^7
veipe fomid^ upon truth.
But let us, Sir, examine th€rargume^^
by which this accusation has been sunn
parted, and entire whether thb triumpl^
of elo<|uence ha^ been occasioned by ^ny
real superiority of evidence or reason. It
ia urged, th^ we have already prohibitea
commerce with the Spaniaros, and*tbi^
tl^firefpre w^ ouj^ht lil^ewise to prohM'it tb<^
. inwrance of their ships.
(t will not reauire, $1^ an iofiaginatioil
very fertile, or al^ji^Mwledg^ y^ry exti^i^vi^
to f upply UTfft^ment^ st^e^enf to refut^
thi9 su|^k9sea demonstration; in oppo^
Uon to which it may be urge^ that thiA
]i(in4 of commerce vitoi ^ pecuUlur J^^atifret
that it subsist# upon opinion, and if pr^
leryed by the reputation of'our insurers ; <|
repmatleii ^at the insurers o^ other n^
tions may obtitfu by the same nieans, anq
from wboHi we shtatl th^efore never r^
cover it.
It niey be observed. Sir, that other ^w^
^«)itifi»fie Ae vmHw m^m of #&
23]
U^EOR^BH.
JDeMe in IK^ Ccmmmi tn M« Bit
ftrent countrieSy and that there iA no' dan-
dier of losing our other trade by suapead-
mg it, because it depends upon the excel-
lence of our manufactures ; but that insu-
rance may be the commodity of any coun-
try where money and common honesty
are to be found. >
This argument tnayperh^s be yet more
effectually invalidated, or perhaps entirely
subverteoy by denjing the expedience of
that prohibition which is produced as a
Srecedenty for another restraint. Nor m-
eed does it appear why we should pre-
clude ourselves from a gainful trade, be-
cause the money is drawn by it out of the
hands of our enemies ; or why the product
cf our lands should lie unconsumea, or our
manufactures stand unemployed, rather
than we should sell to our enemies what
they will purchase at another place, or by
the intervention of a neutral power.
To sell to an enemy that which may en-
able Yduf to injure us, that which he must
necessarily obtain, and which he could buy
from no other, would indeed be, to the
last degree, absurd; but that may surely
be sold them without any breach of mo-
rality or policy, which they can want with
less inconvenience than we can keep. If
we were besieging a town, I should not ad •
vise our soldiers to sell to the inhabitants
ammunition or provisions, but cannot dis-
cover the folly of admitting them to pur-
chase ornaments for their houses, or bro-
cades for their ladies.
But, without examining with the utmost
accuracy, whether the late prohibition was
rational or not, I have, I hope, suggested
objections sufficient to make the question
doubtful, and to incline us to try the suc-
cess of one experiment before we venture
upon another more hazardous.
I am never willing, Sir, to load trade
with' restraints; trade is in its own nature
so fugitive and variable, that no constant
course can be prescribed to it ; and those
regulations wluch were proper when they
were made, may in a few months become
difficulties and obstructions. We well
know, that many of the measures which
our ancestors pursued for the encourage-
inent of commerce, have been found of
pernicious consequence ; and even in this
a^, which perhaps experience more than
wisdom has enlighteneo, I have known few
attenipts of that kind which have not de-
feated the end for which they were made.
It is paore prudent to leave the mer-
chants at liberty to pursue those measures
which experience shall dictate upon every
occttBion, aiid sitffer them to oiaftdh Ihe
present opnortunity of honest ffain when-
ever it shiBil happen ; they wifi never in*
jure their own mterest by the use «f itam
liberty, and by preserving them^elvea thejr
wfll preserve the nation from detriment ;
nor will they need to be restrained by a
law proposed without their solieitationy
and of which they cannot discover any be-
neficial consequences.
Mr. Horatio WalpoU :
Sir : for the Bill now before us I havtt
no particular fondness, nor. desire that k
should be promoted by any other naeane
than rational arguments and the repre*'
sentation of indumtable facts. * >
I have no regard. Sir, in this enonuy,
to any private interest, or any odier aesii^
than that of securing the interest of m^
country^ which, in my opinion, evidently
requires that we should give ho amistance
to our enemies, that our merchants sho^^
co'operate with our navies, and that we
should endeavour to withhold every thm^
that may make the war less bufdew
to them, and consequently ai longer
tinuance.
It was observed. Sir, in. the _
of the debate, by a gentleman eminent^
skilled in mercantile affairs, that insurance^
was practised by many nations; bat he
did not inform us of what one of the
clauses makes it proper to enquire, vrtie-
ther they allewed the method of insuring
interest or no interest, and rating riiipa at
an imaginable value. This is, I know^
prohibited by the Dutch; a nation wboae
authority on commercial questicHis will not
be disputed ; nor do they allow their East
^ndia ships to be insured at all.
The difficulty of estimating Uie value of
any cargo has been urged in defence
of this practice, nor is the defence wholly
without weight, because the cargo in xxaaxf
voyages cannot be ascertained. I shall^
however, take this opportunity of obserr-*
ing, tliough I may somewhat digi:ess firom
the present argument, how necessary it ia
that some of our exported cargoes dbould
be exactly specified.
I have been lately informed. Sir, that
six ships laden with British wool, faa;vse
entered at one time into a port of fVance;
nor do I know how this practice, which ia
justly complained of as pernicious to. our
trade, and threatening the ruin -of -our
country, can.be prevented butvby- a con-
stant and regular particularizatioaf of everf
cargo carxiS to fVailce.
iie
1 IBHRf 9V» WW BMlie CUWOW
pea^KVted oflmot be paitictuarly regu-
1^; aoeh ii the gold with which we aire
hiy nnlied bj oar oominerce with the
loeh m dppofitioii to their laws, and
lidi inr nerduuitg are therefore under,
k geceainr of concealing.
ItiiDotiadeed ea^ to foresee all the
^eanmooes that maj arise from new
nhtioQi ci commerce; but the diffi-
Sty 11 not so great as has been repre-
■tedfOor can I conceive why all our
^firi»»iim^ on trade should be without
fgt Geotlemen mi^ obtain some know«
jka of commerce firom their own obser-
IptMB^ vlueh thej maj enhuge by an un-
ai&ied tad indi&rent conversation with
adeitof various classes, and by enquiries
lit ifae diftrent bianches of commerce ;
Imiriei, Sir, whidi are generally neglect-
l\f dMse whose employments confine
heir stttnlion to particular parts of com-
twe^ or whose application to business
Um tbem from attending to any opi-
iaa tat those whicfa their own personal
iDMiieBce caables them to form.
Sran thase-infimiiatioiia impartially col«
kfed,sBddiligenthr compered, a man not
ippd in the profession of a merchant
Isf fian general principles, and draw
iMwyeuccs more certain, and more
nwiis ID their relatbns, than those
lieh sre struck out only from the ob-
kuMidB of one subdivided species of com-
^Snipi*
A. D. r7«.
tM*
A moBber of this House, Sir, thus en-
l^lned bj enouiry, and whose judgment
raikdiveited&oin its natural rectitude,
sihe imiNilse of any private oonsidera-
SB, WKf judge of any commercial debate
ddiioi danger of error or partiality than
baerefa«DtB,of whom nevertheless I have
bl^ghat esteem, and whose knowledge
ifMtf I do not intend to depreciate,
Ml oedare my fears, that thc^ may
I— liisii ooDfouad j^enend maxims of
■is with the qpmion of particular
dmImi sad sometimes mistake their own
^ fiv tke tnterent of the public.
The interest of the mercbants ought m-
Wshrs]^ to be considered in this House;
Bl then it ouEght to be regarded only in
Mhiation to tiiat of the whole com-
iHly, a sobordmation which the ffentle-
lairtio spoke last seems to have forgot-
ii. He nay perhaps not intend long to
Mm hiB parhsnentary character, and
Mm delivered his opinidh only as a
Hi hsidistiiigQiabed between the. con-
duct of ez|perieiicedandimflkiUid]ilailrers»'
with how mudh justice I shall not.deter-
mine. I am afraid diat a vigorous en-<)
quiiy would discover, that neither age nmr
youth has been able to resist strong tenip«^
tations to some practices, which neither
law nor justice can support, and that those
whose ^xnerience has made them cautions,
have not been idways equidly honest.
But this is a subject upon which I am-
not inclined to dwell, and only mention as
the reason which convinces me of the pro-^
priety of the Bill before us.
Sir William Yorige :
Sir; there appears no probabUity tliat
the different opinions which have been-
formed of this Bill will be reconciled by-
this ddi)ate ; nor indeed is there any rea-t
son for wondering at this contraries of
sentiments.
The several clauses of the Bill have re*
lations and consequences so different, that
scarce any one man can approve them all ;
and in our present deliberation an objec*
tion to a particular clause is considered aa
an ar^ment against the whole Bill. .
It IS therefore neoessary to prevent an
unprofitd>]e expence of time, to resolvo
the House into a committee, in which the
Bill may be considered by single clauses,
and that part which cannot be defended
may be rejected, and that only retained
which deserves our approbation. In the
committee, when we have considered the
first dause, and heard the ob^ectiooa
against it, we may mend it ; or, if it can*
not be amended, reject or postpime it, and
so proceed through the whole Bill with
much greater expedition, and at the same
time with a more diligent view of every
clause, than while we are obliged to take
the whole at once into our consideratian.
I shall for my part approve soBoa
clauses, and make cbjections to others;
but think it proper to reserve my objeo*
tions, and the reasons of ray approbation^
for the committee into whidi we ought td
go on this occasion.
The Bill was referred to a Committee
on the 6th of April,, but not 40 BBembens
staying in the House, it was dropped.
Debate in the Ommmts on the Se&mem^
Bill.*'} On the 27th of January, a mo-
* ^* A very hot contest arose from a Bill
whwb the mmistry brought in anderthesp»»
cioos title of, < A Bill for the ]
MUEOBORIL Debai^mM$
of
m
Itefe
Dt and
add ^ tllft bMor iuMl fpeediflr tnaniuDg
Ml tat^tfi flciely be read « MdMid time,
ft doeidiMMd die MUrwiiig Ddbaliuf
Mr. Gffihn .*
Mr; IlMtebMaaKmsUugkltliattiia
distineal^hiDg Mieity M tkis iMkm s ce*
ileral ilber^, liberty not eooAiied to ttie
%hest datses of moD, but djAiiedthrough
like wfaol^ body o# the peoptet lor l&e
preservation of this, oar aftceston have
strugffled in eveiy a^ ; and for tys only
are &e present burden of taxes borne
#ltbout eedition, and ahmit witbout com-
^la»t. While we preserve, or fiincythat
we preserve, oar liberty^ mt took without
eiivT OR the power^ the wealth, and proe-
penty of 4he slaves of atbiCraty monarchs.
We account no man prosperoas whose
happiness does not de|»end upon his own
eonducti and droirid ihmk it lolly to heAp
and hiereMie ef teamen, Mid ^ the better simI
speedt^ fiMiimiar bis m«|Mty'8 fleet' This
wu a rerival of lie opofcasive scheme which
bad kepii rejected io tfie forsMr sassioD ; a
•obeBM by which the justices oif the peace
were empowered to issue warrants to oooMfr-
hies and headborouf^bs, to search by day or
tight for siteb sea -faring men as sbould con-
ceal ihemsetres within theh" respective joris-
dictioim. These aeareliers were vested with
tethoff ty to feree open doers, fa caee of re*
aiitaece ; and eooeoraged to this riohiiee by a
BBwari for every seaman thev sbpuld disco? er )
while the noiiappy wpetones so discovered
wave dnwed into the service^ and their name9
rered iafeo a.register to be kept ai the navy or
admiralty ^office. Sudi a pTaa of tvraany
did not pass uaceh»ared. B^ery ezcepuonaUfe
diaose produced a warm debate, in which sir
John Bamard, Mr. Palteney, Sir. Saedys,
lord Gaa^, Mr. Pitt, and Mr. Lwtteltoa, sig-
asJistd niemadves nobly ia defending the liber-
lias tff their feUow-sm^ecti. PaftitioDe were
ppasflHtedfrOtt the efty of Londoo, and oounty
tif QhM^^ster, against the BUI, as detrimental to
the trade aad navigation of tbekipgdoro, by dis^
couragiog rather than encouta|riDg sailors, and
destructive to the liberties of the subject : but
they were both rejected as insults upon the
Heme of Cosiiaons. After very long debates,
auriataiaisd on belh sides with extraerdinaiy ar*
dour aaid easolM, the severe eleiiisce were
dropped aiid the Bill passed with amendihenis."
t This day's debate On the l^amens' Bill,
ii from tho Gentleman's Magazine: com-
eby M. Johnson $ but emitted in thie Col-
MK or the Ooeior'a Debates published ia
omiiik Smmml SOL [
whsds Bi^ be M
away witlMmt oar ci^iiaeiit. ¥oi tarn
lasHB9 thia fireil ptfivilesc^ «e hs^ <
daivoAoad, at m ianoeiise otnee,
peovent the eMrmouB Macreaaaor aay
rci^ power, by wUofa we aught b H
be swallowed up, and reduced to tbeai
state with Uie previaeas te ibe contiM
To this end we raiae anues aai h
fl«»ts» aad pour iaba the puUie trsM
tbe predoce of eur laad»» and the gain
our . comaerce. But to whai pmpoie j
our labowap our dangesiy aad our exnfla
to obviate the deaSgoa of teeiga aabili
if we snffnr slavery to stedi upoh u|
thefenn of kw» aad impair ou« Hbsa
by the BMaasemidoyied to deftadihem
If the only use of amies aad fleete
to secure freedom and indepandsncj, i
tlnng siarely can be moae absard ibas
raiae tibem by methods of cqppraaidoa i
vieiltace; aothmg can be wwartiaa
send inen tof^gbt lor thMt libtfty, of vb
we hawe deprived tfaeai.
That the Bill aow before as veda
multitudes of our ftilow subjiejDti to i
miasries of davery^ to the audioB off
vate^ hiikiitg iominera, a^d the l^li
inaaks of petty authority^ mostqipflSf;
every mantjiatheanit.. lloondeaogtlbN
who have df^fAted their lives to.tfaaai
iMefid eniployni£Bt»- and . wsstei tk
sliength in the most important aorviai
their oounicy» to be hunted Ufae beiflli
prey, or like murderers and felonsy nki
It is the eonimoB int^est of sMakiod
search out aad to destroy.
Let any maa* Sir, oiaee.be eaUed as^
man, let any man oaee bacome the o^i
of public resentaaea^ by having ci
tributed to tbe weabh and honour ef I
Gountryy and at laat» from weariness of ^
boor, satiety of pro^;, or fear of o^raa
incline to spend tbe rest of his life in pa^
the h^e and cry shall be raiaed sgn
bim» stcatagems shall be contrived to i
trap» or violence employed to oensHi
him; be shall be pursued by the odioeji
justice, his frienoB shall be obliged to I
tray him» and the hoase brdte opea
midaiRfat that shall affard hhn shelter.
If this be the oobdiUon to nrlmk s
man is exposed by tlie Ws of Britain^
may surely be dispensed ficom ha^aMl
has life in thenr dalence ; for what shii
tioa can be. made in tbem, by vAach J
omidition will become woree ?
If any paatioular body of men he.naik
out by the legislature for hardships li
)p will aat efecy one thai .on fli
B] Mat hOe Commons mtielliameiu^BilL ' A. D. 1^.
u»
bb employ iDcnty liBt hnnMif in some ouicr
[^i Am erecy man who lias been d*
rodjw uohappjras to liave engaged lum-
Rb'm tkisjpraftnion, ieek for fetter thaaC*
a>ent in a foreign land ?
There are mdeed. Sir, some incoave-
riences arisaig from tfiis Billy wi^cb will
ro( be confinM to the seamen ; tile power
piled to oficeis to search a sospcted,
But is, aoj house whidi tiiey snaB be
plused to mark out, may afiect erety man
rfao hai been lo in^mdeotas to oiend
the constable of his parish, as he mm re-
leoge the mjuiy by a declaration of sus-
pidoD, aod consequently by a nocturnal
tl)it It the head orhts assistants.
y«r is this, Sh*, the most offensive part
of this BiH; one clause of it tends to
wakm the most sacred ties of socie^,
to cake not soly friendly offices, but filial
led coojugalCeMemesa punishable by Iptw.
The Deoal dause, by which every one
K Middeo to conceal a seaman without
ucepdoQ of particular reason or relation,.
B^ is mj opinion. Sir, the utmost stretdi
ityranny. Let us dwell a while upon it,
lad impose a son condemned as a cri-
ciicaiior Mtering his fitther ; let us sup-
(OM a wife dragged through the insolence
(1 1 crowd, andcalled wiSi all the infamy
of 1 prostitute, to receive sentence of pu-
GJiuoeot for lefosmg to betray her bus-
bci To think on such scenes as tbese^
adtes indignation ; and for my paxt I
ii^ oppose any bill of diis lund, lest the
itfiatioii of it diould fire the nation to
^: if any severities are proposed by
is BtB, or any mettiods of terror or vio-
^prescfibed, it must be confessed that
it}' can be justified by nothing but ne*
^' >ty, and I hope those who shall speak
^.Seir Tiodication, are QoC less affected
? the sense of thiem, ihough they are
•c^ CQQfinoed how much the present
fii^of ooralEdcs requires audi methods
iu those that oppose thenu
How much the power of this natitfn
'"^ io our fleets, and how usdess fleets
l^yidkovt seamen, lam ^ot to prove.
^ b it, Sir, vadi less apparent, that sea-
^ ire bot jtobe nrocurpabjr the common
vj,od|^ m namoers sufficient for our
P^^Gi innaments, and that tberefiue
*ae otbeis must be speedily contrived.
ItwiS be wain. Sir, to expect, that a
'*-<ti«e«nioobM3ye Hiein tothi^aervfpe,
^ that our sbipa will tooA be aumned
with'vcAunieets; for theteets havetsikea
ew6y sucii nuBobers, tiialthere remain, pei^
Im^s, net more than five thousand In
be
Britain ; who, though they should i
at the cfl^ fiif our commanders, would
able to supply no formidiriliAe navy.
And that a navr of uncommon streng1)b
is neceasiayfor tne honour and support of
Gveet Britttn on this oceassion, no ina^
OttA doubt; when he has been informed of
what I have received fi^om undoubted Ia-
tcffigenee, that a ne»I]lK>unng powers
equSly to foe dreaded m its ambition and
its strength, is now equipping 90 Mpfi of
^e line, for which no iqppiareaft reason can
be given, nor any more pr<^ble, than that
they are designed to interrupt ihe prose*
cution of the war. Such danger; might
vindicate us in the use of violent and com-
pulsive methods of raising forces, but none
are in reality intended or proposed* more
severe than those which. were prescribed
by an act passed in the fourth of queen
Anne, at a time wheb the counsels m the
•nation were directed by men whom we
cannot easily suspect of an intention to
injure liberty.
That tfie condition of seamen will by
this act be made less independent tii«n
that of others, and thetnethoQs of manning
the fleet have a more oppressive and arbi-
trary form than those by vAich the land
service is supplied, is qot to be denied;
but let it be remembered. Sir, that those
inconveniences are balanced bythe rewarjb
proposed, by the !Q>eral provisions made
m Uiose whom the chance of srar dud!
disatne from suppoitmg Qiemscsves, wu/t
the ease and plenljy to whicl^ tftey are
entitled, who shdil grow oM in the aen^
service.
Mr.Cif»lpM2i
Sir; I know not fte import oftheteon
slavery, if it jneans any state dinereut irpiii
that with which seamen are threatened by
the Bill before us. If to ioee the fioirer
of choice, be tp fa)l into sl&^rT, every
seaman, 'from the instant thb BiH pasa^
becomes a slaive; for he*wiir not oi^'Ho
excluded firom .die dioieeof his Qopne tf
lifi^, which yet every fireeaifleo must nseea*
'Saiuy enjoy, but fttrai'thepower of oat^iN
minmg what maater Jie wfli serve*
^ serve.
A .sailor, Sir,tif^ hayfi^gjMfhims wH-
iiygiy entered hinuifnf, 'Is * einier ninit)^
away by jfcfae oppressioo tif his tKpttSi Qf
aQured ipto the service of m^r<;|itots ^
prospect of advantage ; but not«ritMttidinp
Ms apprehanaioBs on 'the osieaidei'aBid Ini
H ^BORGX n. .'JMate-M Ok Coimem on the aeamen^ BO, u
91}
JboDes on the other, he is to be seized by
violencey and condemned without a crime
to that condition wh^h he dreads and
abhors.
Nor is he only deprived of that tran-
quillity and content iWiich every man pro-
poses as the end of his labours, by the
dread of oppression, or of the penalties
incurred by endeavouring to escape it, but
is debarred from the assistance of his re-
lations, and the kind offices of his friends ;
he is stripped at once of every thing' that
makes lite valuable. He is dragged to
■tyranny and hardships, he is puni^ed for
endeavouring to avoid them, and involves
in the same misery with himself, any friend
whom charity or gratitude shall prompt to
jprotect him.
To infer from the scarcity of seamen,
.that such severities are necessary, is to
consult nothing but that lust of dominion
by which men are oilen incited to use vio-
lent measures, lest they should seem to
make too great concessions by softness
and moderation. The scarcity of seamen,
if such there be, must be imputed to the
liardships to which they are now exposed,
jmd it seems not very. likely, when less
injuries have diminished their numbers^
that greater will increase them.
Sir, men have been long discouraged
from entering into the ships of war, by
.every method that could be made use of to
'disgust and offend them : oppressions and
exactions have been too frequent among
the officers ; mock expeditions have raised
their expectations omy to deceive them,
and sudden discharges at places remote
irom opportunities of employment, have
plunged them into distress, and reduced
them to beggary. Surely when men have
been thus treated, it is no crime to decline
a submission to cruelty, nor ought they to
be punished for that detestation of the ser-
vice which is produced only by the conduct
of others*
Mr. CluHerbuck :
Sir; as the question is not at present
whether the Bill shall pass, or whether it
shall be read a second time, I think any
disquisitions upon the methods proposed in
it unreasonable and superfluous, and shall
therefore not at present either o&r or
answer objections. But if there be what
;iio gentleman has denied, a necessity of
^dmg out some method of manning the
fle^ I conceive that every scheme for
that end defitenres to be considered; for
>7 gwMdciftf^t and ^vea ngecting bad
measures. We approach nearer to tlie di
covery of good ones.
On such occasions as this. Sir, the bui
expeditious method of proceeding is u
doubtedlv the best; andasitislesstedia
to amend an imperfect Bill than toiU
up a new one, it will be right to coD«i|
this in the regular way; we may then trie
such clauses as cannot be approved, a
substitute others which shall be suggette
less liable to objections.^
The Bill was ordered to be read thai
cond time, and to be printed.
March 2.» The House wenf ink
grand Committee on the said BiU.^
first Clause being read, proposing i
blanks to be filled dius : lliat every vob
teer seaman, after five years service be^
titled to 61. per year, during life,
Sir Jo^n Barnard rose and said :
Sir ; as it is our duty to provide I^i
by which all frauds and oppressions ii|
be punished, when they are detected^t
are no less obliged to obviate such pn
tices as shall make punishments necesa
nor are we only to facilitate the detect^
but take away, as i^ as it is possible, ||
opportunities of guilt. It is to no puipi
punishments are threatened, if they i
be evaded, or that rewards are oftece^
they may by any mean artifices be vi
held.
For this repson, Sir, I think it necessi
to observe, that the intent of this dsq
the most favourable and alluring dauM
the Bill, may lose its efifect by a prad
not uncommon, by which any man, ii
ever inclined to serve his country, waj^
de&auded of the right of a volunteer.
Many men have voluntarilv appl"
tlie officers of ships of war, and afler I
been rejected by them as unfit for the|
vice, have been dragged on board will
a few days, perhaps within a few hours
terwards, to undergo all the hardshi
without Uie merit of volunteers.
When any man. Sir, has been rejeq
by the sea-officers, he ought to haveac
tmcate given him, which shall be anj
emption from an impress, that, if any oi
commander shall judge more faYourabl;
his qualifications, he may always have
privily (\f a volunteer, and be entitk<
the reward which he deserved, by his i
diness to enter the service.
■■'■.'. — = -i
* From the Gentleman's Msigazine: 4
piled by Dr. Johnson,
MiOeiMthtCmmmumtkeSemmfJm.. A. D, 1741. [Sft
If mdi provifioD8 are not made, Uiia
btefiil pnctice, a practice. Sir, common
aod Dotoriausy and very diacouraging to
»ch II would enter the service of the
poblic, mtv so far prevafl, that no man
ibaB be able to denominate himself a vo-
la&tecr, or daim the reward proposed by
theBQL
Sir Cktria Wager :
Sir; it is not common for men to receiye
iDjunes without appl J inj^ for redress, when
it msy ootainlj be obtamed. If any pr6-
ceedu^ like those which are now com-
plttDedafybad been mentioned at the board
Qt abinlty, they had been immediately
caisiired md redressed ; but as no such
iccoiitioni were offered, I think it may
prabiUy be concluded, that no such crimes
kif e be«o committed.
For what purpose opj^ressions of this
kiod dioiild be practised, it is not easy to
coDoeife; for the officers are not at aU re-
nrded for impressing sailors. As there-
^ h is not probable that any man acts
vickedly or crudly without terhptation ;
tt I m never heard any such injury
€«i|ibined of by tboise that sufiered it, I
ciDootbiit inagme, that it is one of those
npom, wbich arise ftom mistake, or are
idrged bj mslice, to injure the officert| and
oiwnict the service.
Lori&ftisiore.*
Sir; tint the practice now complamed
^ is voy frequent, and, whatever may be
tke loqptation to it, auch as every day
{rodaces some instances of, I have reasons
i« KKrttng wiUi great confidence. I
W, vidiin these few days, as I was acci-
^^^j upon the river, informed myself of
^ ntennen ignominiously dn^ed by
f«rce ioto the service to whidi ^y had
^uDtaiflj ofoed themselves a few days
l^ore. The reasons of such oppression,
K is the buaness of those gentlemen to en-
!^iwhom his majesty entrusts with the
<*nof his fleet; but to interrupt the
OBne of wickeAaei, to hinder it from
^istming the rewwds oftred by the pub-
«i ij the province of the representatives
•^ii|ep«»!e, Antl I hope, Sir, some
f^^ will be made b this case.
Sff; if any such practices had been fre-
W to what can it be imputed, that
**^^ enmby their lives m maritime
^BBKa ihoold be strangers to them?
^ bare no complaints peen made by
those that have been injured f Or why
should officers expose themsdvea to the
hazard of censure, without advantage I I
cannot discover why these hsLrdshipt
ahould be. inflicted, nor how they could
have been concealed, and' therefore think
the officers of the navy may be cleared
from the imputation^ without further en*
quiry.
Sir JoAn J^omarc? :
Sir; it is in vain that objections are
made, if the facts upon which they are
founded may be denied at pleasure : no'f
thing is more easy than to deny, because
proofs are not required of a negative. But
as negatives require no proof, so they Iniv^
no authority, nor can any consequence be
deduced from them. I might therefore
suffer the facts to remain in their present
state, asserted on one side by those that
have reasons to believe them, and doubted
on the other without reasons ; for surely
he cannot be said to reason, who questiqna
an assertion only because he does not know
it to be true.
But as eveiy question by which the li-
berty of a Briton may be arocted, is of im«
portanoe sufficient to require that no evi-
dence should be suppressed bv which it
may be deared, I cannot but think it proper
that a committee should be formed to em*
mine the conduct of the officers in this
particular; and, in confidenceof the vera-
cihr of those from whom I received my
inmrmation, I here promise to product
such evidence as shall put an end to con-
troversjr and doubt.
If this is not granted, Sir, the fact must
stand recorded and allowed ; for to doubt,
and refuse evidence, is a degree of preju-
dice and obstinacy without example. Nor
is this the only objection to the clause
before us, which appears very imperfect
with regard to the qualifications specified
as a title to the rev^ard. The rewani ought
not to be confined to those who shall here-
after be invited by the promise of it to en^
gage in the service, while those who ^«
tered into it without any such pro^>ect»
are condemned to dangers ana fktigiie
without a recompence. Where merit iK
equal, the reward ought to be equal ; and
surely where there is greater merit^ the
reward, proposed by the parhament as atf
encouragement to braver^, ought not to be
less. To be excluded fbom the advanta^
which others have obtained only by avoid-
ing the service, cannot but aepress ditt
spirit of those whose zeal and cottrlm
33]
14 GEORGE 11. Debate in the Cmmons on the Seamen^ BUL \i
.incited thera, at the beginning <of tbe war,
to enter into the fleet ; and to deject those
fTDDi whom we expect defence and honour
ia neither prudent itior just.
Nor is it, in my pinion, (proper to offer
]the same reward indiscriminately, to aU
.that sdall accept it ; rewards ougnt to be
proportioned to desert, ana ho man can
justly be paid for what he cannot peiform;
there ought, therefore, to be •ome dis-
tinction made between a seaman by pro-
fession, one that has learned his art at the
expence of long experience, labour and
hazard, and a man who only enters the
ahip because he is useless on land, and who
can only incommode the saUors till he has
been instructed by them.
, It appears. Sir, to me a considerable
defect m our navalregulations, that wa^
are not proportioned to Ability ; and I thmk
it may not be now unseasonably proposed,
that bailors should be paid accorduig to the
skill which they have acquired ; . aprpvisipn
by which an emulation would be raised
among them, and that industry excited,
whidi now languishes for want of encou-
ragement ; and those capacities awakened,
wmch now slumber in ignorance and sloth,
from the despair of obtaining any advan-
tage by superiority of knowledge.
Sir Robert Walpole:
Sir;, that this charge, Sir, however po-
sitively urged, is generally unjust, the de-
clarations of these honourable ^ntlemen
are sufficient to evince, since it is not pro-
bable that the injured persons would not
have found some friend to have represent-
ed these hardships to the Admiralty, and
no such representations could have been
made without their knowledge.
Yet, Sir, I am &r from doubting that,
by accident, or perhaps by malice, some
men have been treated in this manner;
{or it is not in the power of any adminis-
tration to make aA those honest or wise
whom they are obliged to employ ; and
when great affairs are depending, minute
circumstances cannot always be attended
to. If the vigilance of those who are en-
trusted with the chief direction of grea^
numbers of subordinate officers be such,
ftat corrupt practices are not frequent,
and their justice such', that they are never
ijnpunished when legally detected, the
most strict enquirer can expect no more.
Power will sometimes be abused, and pu-
nishment sometimes be escaped.
^ It is. Sir, easy to be conceived that a
i^eport may become general, though the
practice be very rare. The fact is mulJ
plied as often as it is related, and evd
.Aian who hears the same story twice, int
gines that it is told of different perso^
and exclaims against the tyranny of tl
officers of the navy.
But these, in my opinion. Sir, are que
tions, if not remote from the present a^
yet by no means essential to it. The qu^
tion now before us is, not what illegaliti
have been committed in the execution
impresses, but how impresses themseh
may become less necessary ? How t
nation may be secured without injury
individuals? And, how the fleet may 1
manned with less detriment to comroerc
Sir, the reward now proposed is inten
ed to e^ccite m^n to enter tne service wit
out compulsion ; knd if' this expedient 1
not .approved, another ought to be su
^^tea; for I hope gentlemen are uniti
m their endeavburs to find out some la
thpd of security' to the public, and do n
obstruct the procee^n^ of the commxtte
that, when tne fleets' lie inactive and us
less, they may have an opportunity to i
proach the mmistry.
Sir t/oAii Narris .-
Sir; though it; is not necessary to ent
into an accurate e^mination of the genti
man's proposal, yet I cannot but observ
that by makins it he discovers hinaaelf u
acquamted wiUi the disposition of seame
among whom nothing raises so much di
content as the suspicion of partialit
Should one man, in the same ranx, recei
larger wages than another, he who thoug
himself injured, as he who is paid less w
alwa3rs think, would be so far from exei
ing his abilities to attain an eouality wi
his associate, that he would proD^ly nev
be prevailed on to lay his hand upon t)
tackling, but would sit sullen, or woi
perversely, though the ship were labouri^
m a storm, or sinking in a battle.
Mr. Gore :
^ Su* ;' the danger of introducing distin
tions among men in the same rank, whe
every man that imagipes his merit neglec
ed may have an opportunity of resentii
the injury, is doubtless such as no prude
commander will venture to incur.
Every man in this case becomes t1
judge of his own merit i and as he will J
ways discover Some reason for the pref^
ence of another very different from sup
riority of desert, he wiH, by consequencj
t>e eiuer enraged or dispirited, wiU eith^
S7J DtkU in ^ Gmmons an ihf Seamen»^ Sifk
rtsdfe to deiert his commander, or betray
him to the enemies, or hof oppose them.
1 remember, though impeifectly, a story
which I heard in my tiaVels, of an army
ia vhich some troops received a penny a
<Uy kss thao the rest ; a parsimony which'
c(»t dear m the day of battle, for. the dis-
gusted troops laid down their arms before
the enemy, and suffered their geberal to be
cut in pieces.
QtaealWade:
Sir; I csanot but concur mnth the hon.
gentloon in his opinion that those who are
slreadj eoga^ m the service, who have
borne the fatigues of a long voyage, and
perhifpi are at this hour exposing their
hm io boltb to defend the rights of their
coantiy^oaghttohavethenme daim to
the reward proposed with those who ^all
liereifier oOer themsdves. Nor in my
opimoo ought those wha have hitherto
heeo pietten into our fleets to be discou-
raged from their duty by an exclusion from
^ same adrantage: forif they were com-
peUed to lerve in the fleet, they were
<:oapeiled when there was not this encou-
ragoneot for vdunteers, which, perhf4)s,
% vodd have accepted if it had been
^ proposed. Every man at least will
^^ t&at he would have accepted it,
^oonpisin he suffiers only by the fault
^^thegoveminent; a government which
^ vi not be very zeabus to defend,
*^ be is considered with less regard
^ othen from whom ho greater iservices
sre expected.
A proqiect of new rewards, Sir, will
^ new alacrity to all tifie forces, and an
itpfil distribution of favour will secure an
unshaken aod inviolable fidelity. Nothing
^A uoion can produce success, and no-
ling can secure union but impartiality and
.Uice.
Mr. Sambu :
^|r; the efficacy of rewards, and the ne-
^^ of an imps^ial distribution, are no
tn&uitful subjects for rhetoric ; but it may
?^^ be more useful at present to con-
^-ier with such a degree of attention tw the
jitsijonmofitbe acknowledged to deserve,
to whom these rewards are to be paid, and
jomwhat iiipddiey are expected to arise.
^ith regard to tliose who are to clairn
'^ re»ard. Sir, they seem very negli-
gkialy specified ; for Uiey are distinguished
^J by the character <if HavineServed five
jaiv ; a distinction unintelligible, without
It is, I suppose. Sir, the intent of the.
Bni, that no' man shall miss the reward
biit by his own &ult, and therefore it may
be enquired, what is to be the fate of him'
who shall be disabled in his first adventure^
whom in Uie first year or month of hiflr
servide, an unlucky shot shall confine for
the remaining part of his life to inactivity r
A^ the Bill is now formed, he must be
miserable without a recompence ; and his
wounds, which make him unable to support
himself, will, though received in .defence
of his country, entitle him to no support
from the public.
Nor is this the only difficulty that may
arise from the specifying of so Ion? a ser-
vice ; for how can any man that shul enter
on board the fleet be informed that, the war
will contmue for five years > May we not
aU justly hope that alacrity, unanimity, and
prudence, may in a much shorter time
reduce our enemies to beg for peace ? And
shall our sailors lose that reward of their
hazards and their labours, only because
they have been successful ? What wiH this
be less than making their bravery a crime
or folly, and punishing them for not pro-
tractinff the war by cowardice or treachery i
But let us suppose, .Sir, those defects,
supplied by a more explicit and determi-
nate specincation, there will yet arise an
objection which die present state of out
revenues will not suffer to be answered.
The consideration of the g^atness of the
annual payment which this proposal re*
quires, ought to incite every man to employ
an his sagacity in search of some otiier
method equally efficacious and less ex-
pensive.
We have already, Sir, 40,000 seamen in
our pay, to whom 8,000 more are ^eedily
to be luded; when each of these! shall de-
mand his stipend, a new burthen of
288,000(. must bel^dupon the nation;
upon a nation, whose lands are mortgaged, . .
whose revenues are anticipated, and wnose
taxes cannot be borne without murtnnrs, .
nor increased without ^edition. '
The nation, has fo;and by experience,
that taxes once imposed for just reasonsl
and continued upon plauisible pretenccfiiy •
till they are become fiimiliar,. ate afVeii
wards conlini^d upon mottvesless laudable^
are Voo productive .of influence, -and toe
instrumental toward^ facilitating ,the n^ea^
sures of the mmistry^^tb be esrer wfll^gly
remittecL :' .
CiAond Bladen i
Sir; it is obvioua that when the ba-
iff]
14 6BOROBIL Ikbtie m ike Cammmt an ^ Seamaid BOL f^ij
hnc^ k uneqwd^ it may be redooed to an
equilibriuiDy as well by taking the weight
out of (me tcale, as adding it to the other.
The wages offered by the merdiants over-
balance, at present, those which are pro-
posed by the crown ; to raise the allow-
ance in the ships of war, will be to lay
9ew loads upon the public, an4 will in-
9pi|niDode the merchants, whose wages must
always bear the same proportion to the
IdnjBp^s. The only method then that re-
mains, is.to Jkhten the opposite scale, by
restraining the merchants from giving
^ages in time of war beyond a certain
value; for as the service pf the crown is
then more immediately pecessary to the
general advantage, than that of die mer-
chants, it ought to be made ipore gainfuL
Sailors, Sir, are not generally men of very
e^Uensive views ; and therefore we cannot
expect that they should prefer the general
good of their country before their own
present interest, a motive of such power,
that even with men of curious researches,
xefined sentiments, andgenerous education,
we see too often that it surmounts every
other consideration.
Lord BMmore :
Sir; to the expedient which the hon.
gentleman who spoke last has suggested,
and which he must be confessed to have
|>laced in the strongest liffht, many objec-
tions may be raised, which I am au-aid will
pot easik be removed.
The n|rst. Sir, which occurs to me on
this short reflc^ction is not less than the
im|KissibilitY of putting his scheme in exe-
cotion. Tac prescription of wages which
be proposes, mav be eluded by a thousand
artificos, by pi^vanced money, by gra-
tnitous acknowledgments, Ae payment of
money for pretended services, or oy secret
Gontraets, which it will be the mterest of
Jboth parties to conceal.
But if this objection could besuimounted
by severiQ' and vigilance, would not this
eypedtent help to defeat the general in-
tention ^f the Bill? A bill not designed
as an immediate resource, a mere temr
fORUry iKSOject tp supply our fleets for the
-present yea^, but as a method for removing
ike only pbslruc^Qn pf the British power,
the diflSculty of mantiini^ our ships of war.
It is, I hope, Sifp the mteptiM of every
BiAn who has offered Ipis sentiments ag^ this
occanQ9, to contrive some general encou-
rag^ent for seamen, which diall ooC only
invite thens ^o aMitt their coun^try ^ the
iiist summons, out shaU allure others to
qualify themselves for the public serrioi
by en^a^g in the same profession. '
This is only to be aone by makis|
the condition of sailors less miserable, b]
entitling them to privileges, and honouriD^
thoQi with distinctions. But by Iimitio|
the merchants wages, if such kmitatioDi
are indeed possible, though we may pallisti
the present distress, we shaU dimmish thi
number of our sailors, and, thereby, nd
only contract our commerce^ but ennoge
our country.
Mr. TVocey .•
Sir ; I know not for what reasons tb^
present method of advancing rewards al
entrance is practised, of wluch, howerei
specious it might appear, the success bj
no means encourages the continuanoei
The sailors, thoogh not a geaeratioD d
men much disposed to reflection, or qus*
Itfied for ratiocination, are not yet so roic
of thought as not easily to percehre thai
a small increase of constant wages is ol
more value than several pounds to be pai<i
only at once, and which are squanderiMl sf
soon as they are received.
Instead therefore of restraining thi
wages of the merchants, it seeaos pro^abli
that, by raising those of the kin^, we nut}
man the fleet with most expedition ; and
one method of raiaing the wagea will be u
suppress the advanc^ money.
Mr. Attorney General R^^der .•
Sir ; if the sum ci money now paid b}
way of advance can be supposed to hwn
any efiect, if it can be imi^^ined that ao}
number of seamen, however inconsiderable
are allured by it into the fleet, it is nion
usefully employed than it can be 8uppo6e<
to be when sunk into the current wages
and divided into small paymenta.
The advance-money la only paid t(
those that enter : if no volunteers presen
themselves, no money is paid, and the na
tion doth not suffer by Uie offer : but i
the wages are raised, the expence will b
certain, without the certainty of advantage
for those that enter voluntarily into tb
fleet, will receive no more Uian those tbs
are fprced into it by an impress; m
therefoie there will be no indtement t
en^er witbout compulsion. Thus ever
Other inconvenience will remain, with th
addition pf a new burthen to the nation
our foroca iriU be maintained at a greate
expencei a«d not n(^ed with less dii
ficiulty.
t
41] J)tkl9mike0mmmumiheS€(mmi*BaL A. D. 1741.
hxi BJAme:
Sir; I cnnol bat concur in opbion with
the h(HU fntleoian who spoke last, from
m own acmuintance with the sentiments
null habits Uiat unalterably prevail among
fhoee irfao hate been accustomed to the
•ei; a race of men to the last degree neg-
Cgest of uj future events, and careless
imi any provision against distant evils ;
men vIm have do thev^ts at sea but how
to readi the land, nor at land but how to
aooaoder vkt thejr have gained at sea.
To men lib theie it may easily be ima-
{incd that no encouragement is equal to
the temptation of present gain, and the
ofiportimitj of present pleasure.
Of this aay man. Sir, may convince
kimsdf, who diall taXk to arcrew but half
ID hour ; ibrhe ahall find few among them,
Thovin not for a small sum of present
gioacj, ttO aoy distant prospect of afflu*
(Kse or happiness. '
Whether 1 am mistaken in my opinion,
the honourable members who have long
coooBDded in Ae naval service, can
cttlj detenshie ; and I doubt not but
they will agree, that no motive can be
pnpoaed to a nilor equivalent to imrae-
(haterewanl
Sir; that aone distinction ought to be
oade to the advantage of volunteers, if
ve inteod to man our fleet without com*
F^, is obvious and incontestable ; and
^ avoid the necessity of compulsion oufiht
tobe the chief end of this Bill ; for nothmg
^ be less to the advantage of the nation,
™ to contraue the use of such ungirate-
tfl) methodi, and yet increase the public
«^ttce.
Jft ou^ dierefore, in my opinion, to
^^fnoK upon some peculiar reward,
^ to be advanced upon their entrance
"tothe servioB^ or paid at their dismis-
B^fraiBit
^Btss I see. Sir, no reason for hoping
^ the enoooittement which can be
^*^ wai raise voranteers in a sufficient
^'"^ to secare our navigation, and as-
*rt oar sovereignty, it seems not proper
VS^ Mr conniltations to this part
^ue BiB; ibr sinoe compulsion is on
■■f oGcasioiis iq>pafently necessary,
I I'^BKthodreqiiifes to be considered m
i '•iJ^i'VbelegaL .
I V^vtneir.foirer ought to be placed in
i^BHjiataae, linr what time^ and what
'^*>wia| I am^ fiur from asstmiing the
[48
province of determining; but that- some
measures must be taken for compelling
those who cannot be persuaded, and dis-
covering those that will not offer themsdves,
cannot admit of doubt ; and as the magis-
trate is at present widiout an v authority fos
this purpose, it is evident that his power
must be extended for the same reason as
it was given in its present degree, the ge»
neral benefit of the whole community.
Sir John Barnard:
Sir; if die intent of this Bill be to
enable one part of the nation to enslave
the other; if the plausible and inviting
professions of encouraging and increasing
seamen, are to terminate m violence, con-
straint, and oppression ; it is unnecessary
to dwell longer upon particular clauses*
The intention of the Bill is detestable, and
deserves not the ceremony of debate^ or
the forms of common regard.
If a man. Sir, is liable to be forced from
the care of his own private a&irs, from
his frkvourite schemes of life, from die en-
gagements of domestic tendemesd, or the
prospect of near advantage, and subjected
without his consent, to the command of
one whom he hates, or dreads, or perhaps
despises, it requires no long argument to
shew, that by whatever auUiority he is
thus treated, he is reduced to the condition
of a slave, to that abject, to that hatful
state, which every Endishman has been
taught to avoid at the hazard of his life.
It is therefore evident, that the law
which tends to confer such a poi^er, sub-
verts our constitution as fiir as its eftcts
extend ; a constitution, which wasoriginally
formed as a barrier against slavery, and
which one age after another has endea-
voured to strengthen.
Such a power} therefore, in whatever
hands it may be lodged, I shall always op-
pose. It is dangerous. Sir, to entrust any
man widi absolute dominion, which is sel-
dom known to be impartially exercised,
and which often makes those corrupt and
insolent, whom it finds benevolent and
honest.
The Bill proposes only encouragement ;
and encouragement may be given by his
majesty, without a new law ; let us there-
fore draw up an Address, and« cease to
debate where there is no prospect of agree-
ment.
Mr. JVinnington:
Sir; diepajTment of an annual salary
willy in my epmipn^ be to the last dq;|ree
Mr. Henrjf PMam :. .
Sir; I capoot but think it oecessai
' that, OQ this occasion at leasl^ gentlem*
should remit the ardour of diaputatio
and lay the arts of rhetoric aside, that thi
should reserve tlieir wit and their gati
for questions of less importance, uid unil
for once, their endeavours, that this a^
may meet with no obstruction^ but &g
its natural difficulty.
We are now^ Sir, engaged in a inx wl|
a nation, if not of the first rank In pow«
yet by no means contemptible in it^l
and, by its alliances, extremely formidabi
We are exposed, b^ the course of 01
trade, and the situation of our enemies, 1
many inevitable losses, and have no me&i
of preventing our merchants from hek
seized, without danger or expence to t^
Spaniards, but by covering the sea wij
our squadrons.
Nor are we. Sir, to satisfy ourselv<
with barely defeating the designs of tl:
Spaniards; our honour demands tliat nj
should force them to peace upon adva^
tageous terms; that we should not r^
pidse, but attack them ; not only presen'
our own trade and possessions, out en
danger theirs.
It is by no means certain, Sir, that, i
the prosecution of these designs, we shaj
not be interrupted by the interest or jea
lousy of a nation far more powerful, whoa
forces we ought therefore to be ablet*
resist.
A vigorous exertion of our streogtl
will probably either intimidate any om
power that may be ioclined to attack u.<
or enable us to repel the injuries that shai
bp offer^ ; discord and delay can onl^
confirm our open enemies in their ob^ti
nacy, and animate those that have hitlierti
concealed their malignity to dedan
against us.
It is, therefore. Sir, in no decree pru
dent to aggravate the inconveniencies 0
the measures proposed, for accompii^hin|
what every man seems equally to desire
tp declaim against tho expedients oSer&
in the Bill as pernicious, unjust, and op
Sressive, contributes very little to the pro
uction of better means. That our a^
will not admit of long suspence, and tha
the present methods of raising seapien an
npt Q&ctual, is universally allowed; i
therefore evidently follof)rs. Sir, that soou
[Other must b^ speedily struck out.
I think it necessary to propose, that tbt
Hpuse be r^plved mto a <y)nunitt^ to
iMOftvaiieni'aiid d^ogffwi*: Vi^ymityf
enpence hps beeaalveady estji»ate^ and;
aiMM to a sum wy, iomimbl^ in our prop
aent state. Nor i% the neoaasitor. .of adding
to the public burllien, abuuthfp whicht is
already hard to ba hpcne^ th^cAly objeo-
tion to tfaia pvopoiaL
Nothing can laore contribute to dispucii
the nation,* than to protract the canse«
<}uence8 o£a war, and to make the calamity
felt, when the pleasures of victory and
triumph have be^n forgotten'; we shall be
inclined tather to bear oppression and in-
sult, than endeavour after redvasa, if we
Bubiect ourselves and our posterity to
enoless exactions.
The expences of the present provision
for si^rannuated and disabled sailors* is
no inconsiderable tax upon the puWic,
which is not less burdened by it for tha
manner of collecting it, by a deduction
from the sailors wages; for, whoever pava
il inuaediately , it is the ultimate gift of tJie
naliion, and the utmost that can be allowed.
It must be confessed. Sir, the perBons
aiBtitiad to the pension are not sufficiently
Sdstioguished in the Bill; by which, as it
now stands, any of the wc^thless super-
fluities of a ship, even the servants of the
cnptaias, mav, after five years, put in their
demand, and plunder that nation which
they never served.
Nor del tUnk, Sir, the efficacy of thia
Method will bear any proportion to the
expence of it; for I am of opinion, that
&w of the sailors will be much affected by
the prospect of a future pension* I am
therefore for dazzling them with 5l* to be
Even Uiem at their entrance, which will
i but a single payment, and probably fill
our fleets with greater expedition, than
methods which appear more refined, and
Ihe effects of deepev meditation-
Lord Gage :
Sir ; m^ing is more dear than that a
jrearly pension will burthen the nation
without any advantage ; and as it will give
occasion to innumerable frauds, it is a
method which ought to be rejected.
As to the new power, Sir, which is pro-
posed tohe placea in the hands of the ma-
gistrates^ it undoubtedly reduces every
sailor to 9 state of slavery, and is inconsis-
tent with that natural right to liberty,
which is confirmed and secured by our con-
sUtution. The Bill therefore is, m my opi-
nion, defective in all its parts, of a ten-
fbncy genemlly penkidous^ and omppt be
SHamed but by rejecting it.
E
] BMe in the Commons on the Seamen** BUl» A. D. IT^I.
[*•
irtmr mondhg; and hope all that as-
jiemhle on this occasion, will bring, with
Aem DO other passion than zeal for their
wiotrj.
The Speaker then resumed the chairs
yad the chaitmon of the committee re-
ined progreny and desired leave to sit
>fardi 4. The House in a grand com-
mittee took die said Bill into rarther con-
ndeittioD, when a Clause was ofiered, by
vhich 51 was proposed to be advanced to
la able SeanMn, and S^. to ever;^ other
maa tbt Aould enter voluntarily into his
ic^es^'s lerrice, after 20 days and with-
Mr. Wkamgicn •-
Sir;tfaiiisaclaii8e in which no oppo-
fidon cao be apprehended, as those gen-
tlemen who declared their disapprobation
of the former, were almost unanimous in
proposing this expedient, as the least ex-
jxcsive, and the most likely to succeed.
The time for the reception of volunteers
upon this condition, is. Sir, in my opinion,
juiLcbosly determmed. If it was extended
tu greater lengthy or left uncertain, the
vward would lose its efficacy, the sailors
voold neglect that which they might ac-
cept at any time, and would only have re-
o^ose to file ships of war when tney could
^ DO other employment.
Yet I cannot conceal my apprehensions,
^ this bounty will not alone be sufficient
i3 man our fleets with proper expedition ;
aid that as'allurements may be nseftd cm
we hand, force will be found necessary on
thecdier, that the saOorsmay not onfybe
'Cited to engage in the service by hopes
t ** « reward, but by the fear of having their
'cdigeoce to accept it punished, by being
t'^pefled into the same service, and for-
^ti&g their claim by staying to be corn-
Lord BoUswrr .«
&; to the reward proposed in this
^aae, I have declared in the former con-
gee OD diis Bin, that I have no objec-
^ and therefore have no amendment to
y^V^ except witli regard to the time
nitedfor the paj^ment.
As oar need of seamen, Sir^ is immediate,
*^ shodd not a law for their encourage-
co) immediately operate ? What advan-
*-4:h can arise mm delays? Or why is not
^ proper to be advanced now, that will
^pn^perm twenty days? That all the
tihie between' the enaction and (Operation
t>f this law must be losti is evident ; 4br
who will enter for two poimds, Uiat ntty
gain five by with-hddinghimself #om 'the
service twenty davs longer ?
Nor do I think the time now limited
sufficient; many sailors who are now in
the service of the merchants, may not re»
turn soon enough to lay claim to the boun-
ty, who would gladly accept of it, and who
will either not serve the crown without it,
or wiU serve with disgust and comi^aints;
as the loss of it cannot be imputed to'their
backwardness, but to an aecidrat agaiMst
which they could not provide.
Mr. Wmnitfgton :
Sir ; though I think the'time now fixed
by the 'Bill sdideBt,'fli» I hope that osur
prresent exigency will be but (^ short' con-
tinuance, and that we shall soon be dbleto
raise aaval forces at a cheaper rate, yet, as
the reasons alleged for an alteration of the
time may appear to others of more weight
than to me, I shall not oppose the amend-
ment.
Sir John Barnard :
^ Sir ; with regard to the duration of the
time fixed for the advaiicement of this
bounty, we may have leisure to deliberate;
but surely it must be readily granted by
those who have expatiated so copiously
upon the present exigencies of our affidrs,
that it oupht immediately to' commence.
And if this be the general determination
of the House, nothing can be more proper
than to address his majesty to ofler, by
proclamation, an advance of five pounds,
mstead of two, which have been nitherto
given ; Uiat, while we are concerting dther
measures for the advantage of our country,
those in which we have idready concurred,
Aiay be put in execution.
Mr. PuUeney :
Sir ; I take this opportunity to lay before
the House a grievance which very much
retards the equipment of our fleets, and
which must be redressed before any mea-
sures for reconciling the sailors to the
I)ublic service can be pursued irith the
east probability of success.
Observation, Sir, has informed me, that
to remove the detestation of the lane's
service, it is not necessary to raise Oie
wages of the seamen, it is necessary only to
secure them ; it is necessary to destroy
those hatful insedis that fiaitten in idleness
and debauchery, upon the gains of thein-
dustrions and honest.
473
U. GEOitGB IL DebaU in the CmmoMon the Seameni^ BitL ^
When a sailor, Sir, after the fatigues
and hazards of a long Toyaee, brings his
ticket to the pay-office, and demands his
wages, the de^icable wretch to whom he
is obliged to ^ply, looks upon his ticket
widi an air of importance, acknowledges
his light, and demands a reward for present
payment; with which demand, however
exorbitant, the necessities of his family
oblige him to comply.
In this manner. Sir, are the wives of the
aailors also treated when they come to re-
'Ceive the pay of their husbands ; women,
distressed, mendless, and unsupported ;
they are obliged to endure every insult,
ana to jqeld to every oppression. And to
such a height do thiese merciless exactors
raise their extortions, that sometimes a
third part of the wages is deducted.
Thus, Sir, do the vilest, the meanest of
mankind, plunder those who have the
highest claim to the esteem, the gratitude
and tlie protection of their country. This
is the hardship which with-faolds the
sailors from our navies, and forces them
to seek for kinder treatment in other
countries. This hardship. Sir, both jus-
tice and prudence call upon us to remedy;
and while we n^lect it, all our delibera-
tions will be ind&^tual.
Mr. SotUkwU i
Sir ; of the hardships mentioned by the
hon. gentleman, I have myself known an
instance, too remarkable not to be men-
tioned. A sailor in Ireland, after his voy-
age, met with so much difficulty in obtain-
ing his wages, that he was at length re-
duced to the necessity of submitting to
the reduction of near a sixth part Such
are the grievances with which those are
oppressed, upon whom the power, security,
and happiness of the nation are acknow-
ledged to depend.
Sir Robert Walpole :'
Sir ; it is not without surprize that I
hear the disgust of the sailors ascribed to
any irregularity in the payment of their
wages, which were never in any former
reign so punctually discharged. Theyre-
ceive, at present, twelve months pay in
e^teen months, without deduction; so
that there are never more than six months
for which any demand r^inams unsatisfied.
But, Sir, the punctuality of the pay-
ment has produced of late great inconve-
niencies ; for there has been frequently a
necessity of removing men from one ship
to another ; and it is the stated rule of the
pay office, to assign every man so remojf
bis full pay. These, men, when the |
vemment is no longer mdebted to the
take the first opportunity of deserting t
service, and engaging in business to inu
they are more indm^.
This is ' not a diimerical compU
founded upon rare instances, and «
duced only to counterbalance an otqi
tion; the &ct and the consequences i
well known, so well, that near 1,400 sail
are computed to have been lost by d
practice.
The Speaker:
Sir ; the nature of the eraplojrmeDt wi
which I am entrusted, makes it my <fa
to endeavour that this question may
clearly understood, and the condition
the seamen, withxegard to the recepti
of their pay, justly represented.
I have not been able to discover A
any saflor upon producing his tideet,i^
ever obliged to submit to the deductioi
any part of his wages, nor diould any dk
or officer under my inspection, esd^
such oppression, the severest puniAfflU
and most public censure; I would givel
up to the law without reserve, and mp
him as infamous and unworthy of any tfjl
or employment. J
But there are extortioners, Sir, by «U
those unhappy men, afler having senii
their country with honesty and couim
are depriyea of the lawfni gains of m
gence and labour. There are menj
whom it is usual amongst the saikirs i
mortgage their pay before it becomes dnj
who never advance their money but up<
such terms, as cannot be mentioned w9
out indication. These men advance 4
sum which is stipulated, and by virtue d
letter of attorney are reimbursed at tl
pay-office.
This corruption is, I fear, not confim
to particular places, but has spread eveni
the West Indies, where, as in his on
country, the poor sailor is seduced, by d
temptation of present money, to sell h
labour to extortioners and usurers.
^ I appeal to the gentleman whether d
instance which he mentioned was not <
this kind. I appeal to him without vp^
hension of receiving an answer that ci
tend to invalidate what I have asserta
[Mr. Southwell owned it was by a letti
of attorney.]
Tills, Sir, is indeed a grievance pern
cious and oppressive, wbicui no endeavcm
of mine sbau be deficient in attemptiogj
49] Ddate » tie Commotu on tie Seameiuf BUL A. D. 1741.
[fiO
naore; &r by this the sailor is coBdemn<«
ed, notwiChstsnding his industry and sue*
cess, to perpetual poverty, and to labour
ooly for the benefit ij£ his plunderer.
He Ghoaes were then read, empower-
^ the Juitices of the Peace, &c. to issue
wmnts to the constables, &c. to make
seoenl privy Searches, by day or night,
for fioding out and securing such Se^en
and SeafitfiDg men as lie hid or coaceal
thenMeWci; and making it lawful for the
officma|ipointed to ms£e such Searches,
tofoice men^e doors of any house where
thnrsUi suqpect such seamen to be con«
ctued, jfentrance be not readily admitted;
ndftr fixing a penalty on these wjiodudl
iurbo V or conceal any ■yawii^"
^Joh Barnard:
Sir; we have been hitherto deliberating
upon qootioDs, in which diversity of opi-
uops might natural];^ be expected, and in
vbidiefery man might indulge his own
opmooywnstever it might be, without aoy
dugerou consequences to the public.
But tke dsofles now before us are of a dtf-
iemi kind ; clauses which cannot be read
vitiKmt Mtonishnient and indignation, nor
(intended without betraying the liberty of
^bat,the bravest, and most useful of
our Mlow tid)jects.
If theie daiises. Sir, should pass into a
^f a tailor and a slave will become terms
of the same aisnificatioD, Every man who
^devoted hmiself to the most useful pro-
^MD, and most dangerous service of^ his
owjtry, will see himaielf deprived of every
Ai^Taolaffe whidi be has laboured to obtain,
and made the mere passive propertv of
^ vbo live in security by his valour,
^ owe to his iabanr that influence which
Urdens diem to insensibility, and that
podetlat awdis them to ingratitude.
^Itj must the sailors, alone. Sir, be
^■riEedout from all the other orders of
lan for ignominy and nuseiy ? Why must
uey be tanked with the enemies of so*
fftr, stopped like vagabonds, and pursued
^^ Uuef and the murderer, by public
"^? How or when hayetiiey roneited
ve coounon privil^e of human nature, or
I ^ geneial motection of the laws of their
"^i If It is a jdst maxim. Sir, that he
I *^coiitfibntesmost to the welfare of the
I l^ deaerves most ta be protected in
I ''^odoyment of hts orivate right or fbr-
^ (ft prmc^Ie which siiirely will not be
^IJ^^'vefted) where is tiie man thatd^res
'^finthsndasaerty that be hat luster
cbims than the brave, the honest, the di-
ligent sailor ? ^
I am extremely unwilling, Sir, to engage
in so invidious an undertaking, as the
comparison of the harmless, inofFensive,
resolute sailor, with those who think them-
selves entitled to treat him with contempt,
to overlook his merit, invade his liberty,
and lau^h at his remonstrances.
Nor IS it. Sir, necessary to dwell upon
the peculiar merit of this body of men ; it
is sufficient that they have the same claims,
founded upon the same reasons with our
'own ; that they have never forfeited them
by any crime, and therefore that they can-
not be taken away, without the most fla^
grant violation of the laws of nature, of
reason, and of our country.
Let us consider the present condition of
a sailor, let us reflect a little upon the ca-
lamities to which custom, though not law,
has already made him subject, and it will
surely not be thought that his unhappiness
needs any aggravation.
He is already exposed to be forced,
upon his return from a tedious voyage,
into new hardships* without the intermis-
sion of a day, and without the sight of his
family ; he is liable, afler a contract for a
pleasing and ^nful voyage, to be hurried
away from his prospects of interest, and
condenmed, amidst oppression and inso-
lence, to labour and to danger, almost
without the possibility of a recorapence.
He has neither the privilege of chusmg his
commander, nor ot leaving him when he
is defrauded and oppressed*
These, Sir, I say, are the calamities to
which he is now subject, but there is now
a possibility of escaping them. He is noT
yet deprived of the ri^t of resistance, or
the power of flight; he may now retire to
his friend, and be protected by him ; he
may take shelter in nis own cottage, and
treat any man as a robber, that shall at*
tempt to force his doors.
When any crews are returning home in
time of war, diey are acquainted with the
dangers of an impress, out they comfort
themselves with contriving stratagems to
elude it, or with the pron>ect of obtaining
an exemption from it b^ me favour of their
friends : prospects which are often deceit*
fill,' and stratagems frequently defeated,
but which ^et support their spirits, and
animate their industry.
But if this Bill, Sir, should become a law,
the sailor^ instead of amusing himself ob
his return, widi the prospects of ease, or
of pleasure wiU consider his t:ottntry as a
51]
14 GBORGS IL. ZMi* J* tk^ 0§mmm on m SAmMilf* BOL [^
fjace of ^Tery, a readence lett ti» be de-
sired than any 'Other part of the werid.
He will probably seek, in the aenrice of
aome foreign pnncey a kinder trealmeat,
«nd will not taul, in any country but his
nwn, to Be< himsc^ at least on a level with
.ether iHen.
. Nor will this Bill, Sir, oilv give the sea-
men new reason of disgust, but it will tend
likewise to . i^sravate Chose grievances
which already nave produced a detesta-
tion of the public service, scarcely to be
tonauered.
The officers of tlie navy, Sir, will hardly
be made les^ insolent by an increase or
jpowet; they whcibe tyranny has idieady
alienated ^eir fellow subjects from this
king's service, though thev coidd only d»>
pend upon the character or jmbity and no-
deration for the prospect of manning their
diips in succeeaing expeditions, wm pro*
bably, when they are animated by a law
like this, and made abadote both by land
. and sea, indulge themselves in the enjoy*
ment of dkeir new authority, contrive new
hardi^ips and onpressions, and tyrannise
without fear ana widiout mer^. Thus,
Sir, will die Bill not only be tyranniod in
ksdf, but the parent of tyranny; it wiS
give security to the cruel, and confidence
to the arrogant.
That any man, at least any maa bred
from his infancy to change his residence,
and accustomed to dilferent dimates and
to foreign nations, will fix bv choice in
that country where h^ finds the worst re-
ception, is hardly to be ima|;ined. Vfe
a^ mdeed, that men unqualified to sup-
Ki themselves in other countries, or who
tf by long custom, contracted a fond-
ness for particular methods of 1%, will
bear very uncomfortable circumstances,
vritfaout endeavouring to improve their
conditions by a diange of their habita-
tions. But the temper of a sailor, ac-
ouainted with all parte, and indifferent to
aH, is of another kind. Such^ Sir, is his
love of change, arising either from wan*
lomieas or curio^^, that he is hard to hie
letained by the kindest treatment and most
liberal rewards, and will therefore never
atrug^e with his habitual dispositiona, oo^
to continue in a state of sUvary.
I think it therefore, Sur, venr evident
diat this newmethod of encouraging sailors
vrill be so far from increasing them, Aat it
may prebriily drive them out of the king-
dom, and at once ruin our trade and our
Mvy ; at once beggar and disarm us.
Let floe new suppose, Shr, for ammieiit.
the W\ less penucbus in its conleqiiencefl
and consider only the diiiciiltiea of exti
kL Every sea-fhriag man is to bl
seized at pleasure by the magistrate ; bu
definition is given of a sea-farinj
? Or by what characteristic is thi
magistrate to distinguish him ^ I iiavi
never been able to discover any particuhi
rities in the fonn of a seaman that nud
him out from the rest of the apeciee
Tliere is, indeed, less servility in his ai^
and less efeminacy hi his fiioe, than h
those ^t are commonly to be seen H
drawing'fooms, in brothds, and at reviews
but I Iroow not that a seaman can be di^
from any other man of equd
or use, who has never enervate^
himself by vice, nor polidied himself intj
corruption. So that this Bill, ^r, if ij
shall pass into a law, will put it at once i^
the power of the magisttate to dispoae c\
seamen at his pleasure, and to term wfeoQ
he nieases n seaman. i
Another expedient. Sir, has been oibred
on this oceasion not equdy tyrannical
but equally inadequate to the end in yle^
It is (Mropesed to restrain tbe merchand
from givinq[ wages beyond a certain take, 09
die supposition that Uie sailors hnve no noj
tive but that of larger wages, topl^r tfa^
service of themercmnts tethat of ttiecrowo{
This, Sir, is a mistime whidi migfal
easily arise from a p&rtial and imperfecl
knowledge of tiie antr, with which ver^
few gentlemen havn epportumtsesof beini
weU acquainted. The wages, EKr, are thS
smallest indueemente which fix^riie semne^
m their dmce. The proapect^f kiaikj
treatment, the certainty of retnmiQg hom^
in a fixed tbne^ and the power of chnsin^
what voyages they will undertake^ cannol
but be adoMwledged very reasoni^i^
motives of preference.
On the contrary. Sir, when they ar^
once engaged in a sh^ of war, diey kno^
neither whither they are going, whal
dangers they shdl encounter, whet hardi
shqps they shall sufer, nor adien they Aai
be dismissed.
Besides, Sir, I do not tiunk it possiUJ
by any bw to limit the wa^ea to be pai^
by merdumts, sinoe they vM change th^
term of wages into that of a present, oi
admit tbe safiors to a small dtture in th^
freight, and so all the piecavtion we ca^
take wdl become ineffiM^tnal.
In the mean time, Sir, how much shal
we embarrass iout own ceameite, an^
Impair oer viatumi strength, die powdr d
our tt^mi We akill lerrtfy our bailors oi
a ohIIm others we shall iioiQia74nv9
Ifm m bj MPMrdof 9«veritie% but
like iiraj eveiy motjv« tbat ^np in^uo^
linpi |o eipQ99 tbemieivee ta tbe danger
Jf vo cowider, $ir, wi|b wbat effect
^0Mfi ooarly aj^pioacbipg ih^m were
IliQtiifid iA the reiga of thtt late queea
4bpc^ w9 ahall £od that not laore thau
1^ leiBieD were raised* fipd thove at
lhecxpeBC9 of more than ^fiOOl. 90 that
tkefMilNire QOjproportion to th^poeana;
m liiivere iniriii^ed, and oar coD9ti-
taMTiolated to no purpoae.
* Ait«kat raaaoBy Sir» can be aaaigned
Ir ffiii^ it muat be more diffici4t t^
t^iif^ fleet now with sailors than at
mi^Aff timef This war, Sir^ vm de*
Mdei by tta middic Tiuce, in puiBuanoe
4 the particular remeoatranoey of Uie
WchlQll, and it is not to be eupposed
Aft Ike diIor9> or any other body <» meai
MM ja ft wkh a particular reluctance.
ismtberefive ioelined to believe that
^$$fiem of gr^t nupabers hid ip the
gglptij^st a ^istaao^ from the coaatiB, is
,«piIfoUm?rical; and that if we shoald
pi ik BiU» we should do nothing more
■lajptA aa oppreapive and iincoostitu-
tjjljWrr of search for what lA reidity 11
Iglsttfound.
* J^ oppreiBSive this power may become
i|lb bsm of a corrupt or insetent aiii*
pMe, my man may discov^ whp re-
4piu> that the magistrate is n^ade jtidge>
i|||iqt W^> ^ ^^ ewn right to d^o^
mil»my man a saiiory aKid ^ he mtiy
M qpea mf man's doors at any time^
aiWit aUf^guQ^ apy other reason than
Ml oim suspcum s so tl^it ne man can
\l/mim hoyse irofu bein^ seur^edt or,
frt^s, hispeneo firera being seiaed*.
I| mf indeed b^ alleged) Sir, th^tthia
vl be odIy a temporary laWy and is- to
«ilisvitblfie eiqgon«e tluiit made it neces-
(■yi .9«t long experienee haa in£^rmed
% M verare laws are enacted more
mShfOm th^ are repeal^; ajod that
Mim «ft tAo fiHtd of power te auflE^r
■lil^ the diniautiea of it,
illliSb,tfaoM^tbel«v8b(Ki)d not be
•g|^iif''ii ervty pn^ee^nt of f^ io-
Apmtef eur«oii9tit!itio9, maheii way
iltti diinliiikBi aad the verv cessatioa
«ii«Pfr«iiiTe taw* nay be a pleii b«r9«
%««.»» rfvival of ij.
^ibiiKIl therefore must be Qonfewedto
iHoaesfi^leiitwd^n^bctitfd; tob^a
if .|ll»iltjt «f iu||»c» td^ pwr-
^tftmern'm^ r Jk,Jh\m.
l^
I
titular loaDi witboai any firaapaot of real
benefit tp the comaiun^i^; ai^ thereibre
cannot be passed without de?ii|tiQg at Qo^
from prudence and our qoastitutiou.
Captain ConmoM:
Sir; I have obserred. Sir, that every
man is apt to think himself ill treated^whp
is not treated according to his own opinion
ci his deserts^ and wiO endeavour to dif-
fuse his own notion of the partiaKty and
Smy of the naval ofScers; general
ours therefore are little to be regarded.-
I have had, from m^ early years, a com-
mand in the sea service, and can aaser^^
'that I never knew moife than one insCaoM
of injustice, and that was punWied with
the severity it deserved.
Sir Robert Walpote ;
Sir ; it is with uncpmmon satisftotjoa
that I see ev^ry clause of this BiU r^gu*
larly debated, withput unbecoming impn*
tience, or passionate exclamations. I am
willing to collect from thia conduct, thalt
the duposition of every gentleman i^, 01^
this occasion, the same with my own ; and
that every expedient here proposed will b« -
diligentlv examined,and either bea^ xiou^y
appr^veo, or be calmljr rejected.
Such codness and impartiality, $ir,^i»
certain^ required by the importance of
the present ouestion; a question wbicb^
cannot but infloence the prosperity of the
oation for many yearsi
It is not necessary to iremiqd any gen-
tlemen of the importance of oi^r trade, oC
the power of the eneoiy against whom we
have declared war in ^eiKce of it, or of
the necessity of shewing the world thai
our dedaraUons of war are not empty
noises, or. farces of resentment. Bat it'
may be prefer, Sir, to remark, that this. i*.
not the only enemy, nor the most powerful^
whose attempts we have reason to provido
against, and who may oblige us tQ ex#rt
our whole power, and practise evai^ ex-
p^eyit to increafie our fbr^ea. .
The war has been hitherto proiecutedi
with the utmost vigour, with aV th^ atten*
tioB that its importance require^ and witti
success not disproportioned to our prepa*^
rations; nor will it ever be suffered to
Itt^iah, if the powers neceesary for carry-
ing it on are not denied.
Nothing is mpre evident, Sir, than thab
the natural power of the nation convicts ia
ita fleets, raich are now, by the caie of
the government, bq numeroua, that tb9
united powef of many nati(>ns cann-ot;
9<iprt t&m-. 8ut what are fleeu n»p*
14 (tEORGB IL DOaii in OeCmmfum an ^ Seamen^ \BSL [U
hap[Mne»; bat his mannura will ytm\
nothing but his own fdly and ingratitDd^
and wm certainly desenre no le^iid fm
the legislative power.
There is in the Bill before ns. Sir, eni
couragement sufficient for Tolunteers, ao^
an oflfer of ffreater rewards than some gen*
tlemen think consistent with the present
state of the national revenues; and whal
remains to be done with respect to tiio»
who are deaf to all invitations, and blind u
all ofifers of advantage? Are they to sit a{
ease only because they are idle, or to b^
distinguished with indulgence only foi
want of deserving it ?
It seems generally granted. Sir, thai
such drones are tl^e proper objects for ajj
impress* Let us then suppose that everj
man who is willing to serve his countryj
has bid hold of the reward proposed, and
entered a volunteer. The fleets are no(
yet sufficiently manned, more sailors mvnA
be produced. Warrants are issued out iii
the common form. The negligent, tb^
imj^rudent, the necessitous are tdcen. The
vigilant, the cunninsi and those that have
more money find shelter and cfscape. Can
it be said, that those, whose circumstances,
or good fortune, enable them to secure
themselves from the officers of the impress,
deserve any exemption from the public
service, or from the hardi^ips to which
their comnanions are exposed? Have the)
dischargea their debt or gratitude to the
public so effisctually by running away from
Its service^ that no seardi oueht to be
made after them ? It seems evident, that,
if it was right to seize the one, it is like-
wise right to pursue the other, and ifit be
right to pursue him, it is likewise right to
hinder him from escaping the pursuers.
It is then right'to vest some persons with
the power of apprehending him, and in
whom is that power to be lodged, but ia
the civil magistrate I
Every man. Sir, is dl>liged by compul-
sive methods to serve his cduntiy, ifh^
can be prevailed upon by no other. 1»
any man shall refuse to pay his rates or his
taxes, will not his goods oe seized by force>
and sold before his face ? If any particuhir
methods are proposed for obU^^ seamen
to contribute to the public safety, it is only
because their service is more necessair
upon more pressing occasions than that of
others ; upon occasions diat do not adnut
of delay, without the hazard rf the whole
community.
I must confess, Sir, there are many
mstanoes in which ibe haidships of toe
55]
furnished ^th men ? How wi)l they
tain the dominion of the sea, by I^uig un«
active in our harbours ?
That no methods hitherto used have
been sufficient to man our naviek, and
that our preparations have therefore been
, little more than an expensive shew of war,
the whole nation is sufficiently informed ;
it is therefore tiot doubtful that some new
measures must be taken ; whether any bet-
ter can be suggested thai^ are offisred in
this Bill, must be enquired.
! With regard, Sir, to the clause now
under our consideration, it is to be re-
membered, that little more is proposed by
it than to add the sanction of i^ality to a
power which bas long been exercised by
the admiralty, without an^ other authority
than that of long prescription, the power
of issuing warrants of impress upon emer-
gent occasions, by which sailors are forced
mto the public service.
' This power, in its present state, must
be allowed to have no foundation ia any
law, and by conseouence, to be unlimited,
arbitrary, and easily abused, and upon the
whole, to be justifiable only by necessity :
but that necessity is so frequent, that it is
of\en exercised, and therefore ought to be
regulated by the legislature : and by such
regulations, we may rather be said to re-
move than introduce a grievance ^
The power of searching for sailors, how-
ever it nas been represented, is far from
setting them on a level with felons, mur-
derers, or vagabonds; or indeed f^oai dis-
tinguishmg them, to their disadvantage,
from the rest of the community, of which
every individual u obliged to st^port the
government.
Those that possess estates, or carry on
trade, transfer part of their property to
the public ; and these ought, by parity of
^ason, to serve the public in person, that
have no property to transfer. Eveir man
is secured by the constitution in the en-
joyment of his life, his 13>erty, or his for-
tune i and therefore every man ought re-
ciprocally to defend the constitution to
which he is himself indebted forsafety and
protection.
I am therefore, Sir, unable to discover
.In what consists the hardship of a law by
which no new duties are enjoined, nor any
thing required, which is not already every
inairs duty. Every man, indeed, who is
desirous of evading the performance of
any of the duties of society, will conisider
every compulsion as a hardship, by which
he is obliged to contribute to the general
57] DdaUtMOeCmmaiiifmikeSemiiem^BUL A. D. 1741.
[68-
leifinD^pflrt of die nation are pebuBar,
ind truly caiamhoiis. A sailor, after the
diBgen aod toik of a lone voyage, when
be is now in the sight of the port» where
be hopes to esjoy that quiet .whi(^ he has
(kserred bj so long a series of fatigues, to
rtuir the iojories which his hedth has
fi&red, by dttnge of dimatey and the
diet of the ships, and to recover that
strength which incessant vigilance has
Venn any. When he is in exudation
of beiog reodred by his fisunily with those
canses, whidh the succours that he brings
them Datmlly produce, and designs to
RstaiHiilefroni danger and from care.- In
the nidtttfthese pleasing views, he is, on
tiv fuddcD, seized by an impress, and
forced into t repetition of all his miseries,
without any interyal of refreshment.
Let OQ man, who can think without
cmpaam on such a scene as this, boast
bis Ksl for freedom, his regard for brave-
ry, or lusgiatitude to those who contri-
Inite to the wealth and power of their
coQotiy ; let every man who declares him-
ieif toQched with tne pity which the slightest
rddedioo, imon su^ a disappomtment,
jDostnatiffally produce, sincerehr endea-
Toarto obviate the necessity of such op-
pmc nessores, vhich maj at least, m
pAtybepierented, by assigmng to magis-
trata the power of* hunting out of their
riMtt, those who neglect the business
^' their calliiigs, and linger at once in la*
OMK and want.
^^iie great numbers who retire not
^ vestincas or idleness, but an unrea-
i-aable prepoBKasion Mauist the public
^e^; and surely no&inff is more un*
r»»»ihfe, than that bad dispositions
ihofiid be gratified, and that industry
s^oiid expose any man to penalties.
I'poQ the whoie. Sir, 1 am not able to
^^er, that any man should be exempt-
«) trom sn impress, merely because tie
bk nesas to esci^ it, or because idle-
^ieaordisiadination to the public service
frcopti hna to abscond.
^aiy men deserve indulgence, in op-
P«tioQ to the demands of the pbblic, they
>ir rathe those who have already in some
*^ discharged their duty to it, by con*
^'^^^ to bimg in that wealth which is
^csMequenceof a prosperous and well-
^^^^tud commerce, and without which
^ cannot be supported.
It ia not without grief and le^, that I
^ ^^^ ^ represent on this occasion,
^ ^temctiona) which the war has suf-
kadfrom dMBe at whose request it
undertaken ; and to declare that the con^*
duct of the merchants has aSbrd/ed proof
that some law of this tendency is absolute**
ly necessary.
The merchants. Sir, who have so loudly
complained of the decline of trade, the m^
terruption of navigation, and the insdence,'
rapacity, and cruelty of the- Spaniards r *
the merchants who filled the nation with
representations of their hardships, discou-
ragements, and miseries, and lamented in
the most public manner, that they were'
the only body for whom the legislature had
no regard, who were abandoned to the'
caprice of other nations, were plundered,
abroad, and neglected at home; the mer-
chants, after having at length l^ their im-
portunities engaged the state in a war, of
which they have themselves certainly not
the Jeast pretensions to queMion dther the
justice or necessity, now, when, by 'the na-
tural consequences of a naval armament,
sailorsbecome lessnumerous, andshipsmore
difficult to be equipped, contract in private*
with such sailors as the^ are inclined tO'
employ, and conceal them in garrets hired
for that purpose, till the freight is ready y*^
or the danger of an impress is past, and
thus secure th^ir own private afiSurs at the
hazard of the public, and hinder the ope-,
rations of a war, which they and they only
solicited
The danger of having other enemie*
than the Spaniards, enemies more active,
more powerful, and more ambitious, bar
already been mentioned ; a danger so near
and so formidable, that he will not be
thought very solicitous for hia country
whom the bare mention of it does not
alarm. This danger we are therefore to
obviate by vigorous preparations, and una--
nimous resolutions, nor do I doubt but
both our enemies, if they find us united,
will repent of attacking us.
Sir, the most efficacious method of man-
ning our fleets, which law or custom haw
jret put into our hands, is that of suspend-
ing our commerce by an embargo, and yet
the whole nation knows how. much cmd by
what means it has been eluded ; no sooner
was it known that. an embargo was laid,
than the sailors flew away into the country
or hid themselves in comers of this great
city, as from the most formidable daneer;
and no sooner did the embargo cease, than-
the banks of the rivers were again crowded
with sailors, and all the trading vessels
were immediately supplied.
As I cannot doubt, Sir, that every gen-
tlemanis equally sealoua tot the succeaa
m
14 QffiQR<3^]S'II. Pf^mth$Comumi9mtkaS9mpu'tliB. [I
if the w«i» mii for the nr^iiperily of fail
ewntrj; ind ag Iht infuSoenogr of tb«
jurasent methodi of providing for tbom i«
^[»parent, I hope that either the rc|(ulatioD§
popoeed by thit BiU» to which i see no
iiB|K>rtaat objtctionat or toioe other of
etgm use* wiU be established by a geoeral
cooGunrenoe.
liOrd BtMfnOTT :
Sir ; though no gentleman in this House
oan more araently wish Ih^ success of the
British arm*, or shall more .wiUlqgly con-
cur in any measures that may promote it«
yet I cannot agree to the clause now under
our coDsideratioo. I disapprove it both
from moral and political motives ; I dis*
approve it as neither just nor prudent*
The injustice of so flagrant an invasion
of th^ liberty of particular men has been
already exposed ; nor is it» in my opinion,
leas eaay to discover the imprudence of
eoi^haustmg all our siqpplies at once, and
aweeping away all our sailors, to su|^ly a
aingle exigency.
It has often been remarked, Sir, in £»•
vour of a standing army, that it is requisite
to have a number of regulariforces, who,
Ibough too weak to oppose an invasion,
might be able to establub discipline in a
lamr body« An observation which may
with much greater justness, be applied to
the seamen, whose artis m^ch more dif*
ficult to be attained, And who are equally
necessary in war and peace.
If our stock of seamen, Sir,be destroyed,
if tliere is not left in our tradine vessela a
aufficient number of experienceo artists to
initiate novices, and propagate the pro-
fiBSsion, not only our-shipa of war must
lie uaeleis, but our commerce sink to no-
ting.
Kor have I reason to believe the naval
power of France so fonnidable» as that we
oi^t to be terrified, by the apprehensions
^it, into any extraordinary methoda of
prooedure. 1 am informed that they have
BOW very few ships of force left in their
liarbours; and that they have exerted
tbeir whole strength in the American
fleet
I am not, therefore. Sir, for providiQg
i^ainst present dan^ars^ without regard to
our fiiture security; and think nothin|^
aaere worthy of tb eoasideratioa of this
assembly, than the means of encomMing
nfiA increasing our seamen, whitifci wilfnot
be effiKsted by the Bill b^re us.
Land foreea may be hired upon emer-
but aailon niie oar own peculiar
strength, and tba.growtb of our own s<^
we are therefore above all other regaii
to attend, if I may use the term, to tl
preservation of the species.
Mr. Viner :
Sir ; as there can be no stranger obj^
tion to anj^ law than ambiguity, or indet^
minate latitude of meaning, I think it ii
cessary to propose, that some word
known and limited import, be aubstitut^
in the place of sea-faring men ; an exprc
sion which, if I was asked the meaning i
it, I should find it difficult to explain.
^ Are sea-fiuing men those only who n
vigate in the sea ? The term is tben supc
fluous, for all such are evidently coo
prized in the word seamen. Are thi
oargemen or watermen who ply on rivet
and transport provision or oommodidi
from one mland town to anotlierV In tb
sense no body will affirm that it is a prop
word; and improprieties in theexpres&ic
of laws produce uncertainty in the ex^
cutionoi them.
Captwn Cornwall:
Sir ; the term Sea-fiiriog mmx, of whi<
an expUcatioo is desired, is intended tou
elude all those who live by oonvmring goo
or passengers upon the water, whether tl|
se«t or inluid rivers; nor can we restrftl
it to a narrow sense, without exeo&tin
from the public serWce great Dumber
whose manner of life has qualified the
for it, and from whom their country ms
with equal justice expect asaifitaoce, (
from those who are engsiged ib forei|
traffic
Mr. Viner :
Su* ; I am &r (rom Qoncurring with tl
hon. gentleooaA in his opinion, that the h
land watermen are, by their furofeasioo, i
any d^ree Qualified for sea-ieervice, c
can properly oe called sea-fiuring men*
AU qualifications for the service mm
consist either in 9oipe knowledge of tli
artsof navigation, or insomefiuniliarity vit
the danf^ers of die sea. With regard i
any previous knowledge of naval businef
it IS well known that wev havex^ advai
tage over Any common labourer ; for tl
manner of navigating a ship and a baif
have fi>r the mo8!t part nothing incemmoi
Nor are these watermen* Sir, moi
able to stand fino m the tetrera of tli
stoim, or the noise of a battle, than thai
who &II0W any other oceupation, many <
them ney^ pew the mh^ aur hate te
4
II] . lkUf$ m the CammoM m tke
A^ of Hi danger than the other inha-
|)glfiii« of the inland CDuniries. They are
Ihiefeie Mither iea^fiving men, iunt pe-
oMj cipfible of beitig made aeaneo.
But the hardship upon particular men
a Bflt Che itrongest objection to thk daine^
yljch, hf abftnictiDg our inland navig»-
lIlB, tm make our riyere useless and set
lnvhcie trade of the nation at a stand.
1^ who will bring up his son a watennan^
«ha kaows him en^oeed by that profts-
|iga to be impressed for a seaman ?
ItieeBii tlherefore necessaryi Sir, either
Is wt^ term < sen-faring mep»' or to ex-
||iiait 01 sttch a manner that inland wa>»
I may not be included.
lord Gage ••♦
!• Sr; tonuich bam been urged against
'^ eonpiikive methods proposed in this
I *The foDowtog report of Lord Gsfj^'p
jkRk, apparently iVom authority, was given
h Ik LiHOB Magazine for July 1741.
Uri Gagt^i Speech agaimt tki Stamens*
I lid got oppose die commitment of Ikis Bin,
[ImM aa one can be mora desirooi than my-
la have a Bill framed accarding to the
«f iljt which ts, * For the encouragemeDt
ase of Seamen, and for the better and
Binnhigof bis Maiesty'a fleet :' and
mm^ rfwH he ibr 80 mncb or it. as tends to
; irlbr any other ckaseatliat may be
'ferthom parpasss; and Ilhinkallen-
■Miteaght to begifea aoaoaasM a
if peofla as oar saamsn am, lad abould
'amelhod could be found oat, for
' l^aeataiBty to theoificers' widows, like that
bkadoffioen "
• i which I hope the geotle-
ary wffl think of; fant I eanaol be
e Mst read, as well as some others
ifikkBd
«B«rtheui
Irtedaaie
inRWiiv hiiowh^
llie daose BOW beibre US it is said, that it
pi «i^ v^ be lawful, fbr theoffieen ap»
niiM to aeareh f» osamcn, to enter iate any
|M^ oot^wasa, er othsr place, whcm anch
« officera shall suspect aiq[ seamen or
HMtg OKQ to be concealed ; and if entrance
hptni% admitted, then to force or cause
Smad open, the door or doors of any such
OQt-hoose, or other ptaee, in order to
Mhaoarob. And for aH Asm artnlrary
UmnMin^si
nioM, hut aveifficer's
3^g
ftiaaft*
fe if It fhoaU pass mko a law, would
ig aUaaamen unon |he footing of felons
mdata; and would no a sore way of driving
jMrnalar OAof iImi nadoo, as wen
IbinireBicrease of them i for no one wsnld
Utoit their children to an employment, that
niiiiifHX them tojpataa and piaaltieaaar*
SOL A. D. 1741. im
elaiise,aod io little prodiiead m fimmr ef'
them^ that it may seem ouperfluous to add
any thing, or to endeavour, by a multi*
plicity of argnmenta, to prove what com-
mon reason must immediately discotaiv
But there is one consequence of this dansa
which has net j^ been observed, and
which is yet too importluiC not to be oh«
viated by a particular proYisa
It is well known, Sir, that many of those
to whom this act will extend, are free*
holden and Tolers for electing the repra* ,
sentatives of the nation : and it is there*
tore apparent that electtons may be infln*
ehced by an ill-timed or partial execution
of it. How easy will it be when an elec-
tion approaches to raise a' &lse alarm, to
propose some secret expedition, or threaten
us with an invasion from some unknown
country, and to seise on all tSbit saa«formg
ing the whole course of their lires. For thej
would be liable to what . no other of hislla*
jesty'ssnbiects as yet are, to be dragged oat of
tbeir beds nom tlieir wires and familiea, and cm^
ried to wha^ paK of the world an ofieer plemes.
tint beadea due, who caa be for a dauaa
that aalQesls the whole aatioa as wett as Uaa*
self to the caprice and insofooeeef ewy lUtla
dam effiaer, to have his hoiNaseaiahadl^ ban,
by day or by night, or his doombioke opea^
upon aa officer's sasppctiag, er being inforsMd, *
am an y seamen or aea*foriag men in i '
ifddsi
bouse:
leversheuMheaHewedg'
an end of the liberty ef thesal9eet,aadef whao
eoery Xaglisbman prideaia, who can nosp say
his honse to bis sasJa
hysea^foiiagmsi
denommation wili
This sIsasB^ I aaaht ebsarvi^ deaanet aalf
I should be glad la know, what ki
mm,forlamaliaid,i
'^ be comprehended aU (
that work en ear large narigdrfe rivers;
if that he as^ 1 da aol knew hut befoie the 1
eleeiioalmay lose twenty of my
therofoie I am Ibe mem ottifsd to L^
paaaiag mis a law. Netlhatlam
sireiiat twenty 1
uiy beiay ehoae again at Tswhashury $ bntaa
they am part of my eoasiituanli, I am hound
to serve Iheaa, and lake. cam efth«r ffighlsand
prifikM,
nrery ming
Idonsiiatbolsestdoaht,]
lata a law, hut that the mmisasr wjU '
sf it before thai
IS, and proveni, as far as ia malie%
ling that amy tandte Ihsir prmndics.
Hi ia the Issst doaht, if thM raipaaam
law. hut that the mmisasr will aarim
, la tharidesaf iha Oaaa^
I aaataot paoparly tain' notisaef any part of
thiaBiH,bmthadanmhefomns» bnltaahsm
thaiaapoaaibiiicr of this Billys passiag, thasfh
thisclaasa waaagreadia, I bag tears ta Oaba
notice of the two neat Who would conaent to
the first, wh«L it is said, Xhaltf any seaman
eSj 14 GEORGE IL Debm^ in Ob Commons onihe Seamen^ BUL \\
▼ofeMB whose aiedioiis are-saqpeeCed, and
confine them at Spithead ttU tlie contest
is over.
- I tumnot therefore^. Sir, bat think it ne-
cessary, that if this danse be softred to
pass, some part of its hateful conseqnences
flhodd be prevented by an exception in
finrour of meholders and voters, whidi^
surely is no less than what every man
9weB to hiB own security* to the welfiiie of
his country, and to those by whom he has
been honoured with the care of their li-
berties.
or sea-fariDg luan, thus ibrced out of his bouse,
and torn from bift wife and family, shall desert
or run away from bis conductor, that such
desertion or running away shall be jndged
ftlODy, and by consequence the poor man be
haniped?
Who oan likewise a||rreeto this other, where,
tf a poor old man and his wife should endeavour
to harbour or conceal their son, whose labour,
very likely, might be their only support, they
should be punished and sufler a 6ne or impri-
sonment P And God knows how many inno-
cent people might suffer through this clause,
on pretence of Uieir harbouring seainen. Any
of us might perhaps be prosecuted for having
some of our voters, that are seamen, lyiag a
night or two ia our hc^bses.
If thu clause passes, I should adftse geatle*
aaen at the next eleeiions^ not to put in practice,
. what many of as have often done with our
donbtfal voters ; for the bousing of them, (as it
is calleid) if seamen are among^ them, may be
•f dangerous consequence.
Last year f was sgMosta BUI for the fUffis- I
taring of Seamen, because it tended to en£ve
them;* but now I oppose this, bsoause it
ws«l<l not only enshtve tbem, but all the people
ef Sngjand, % taking lh»m them one or their
most valuable and inherent rightt^ the saaetotry
of tb^r bouses.
I think,. Sir, it would be useless to take up
auch more of your time, in speaking a^dnst a
elaiHe whieh no ctae can defend ; nor can those
who brought it in, gtve any other reason for
having dose it, but Aat there was such a faiw
flnde during queen Amie's war, which is the
aapoagest aiguorant against it. For. as that
law was only made for one year, by way of
trial, and was never afterwards renewed during.
the war, it is a certain proof thait it was found
at least ineflfectnal, if not detrimental. For all
reasons, 1 am heartily against this
; tmd though it should be agreed, as I
pMpssed the last debate, that all freehoiderB
should be excepted out of this Bill, yet should it
pass into ahiw, I solemnly dedars, I will not
obsjF it, and if as justioe of the pepoa I should.
raesive ever so many orders of council to put it
ia ezecution, I will not do it, but will evade
putljag it ia force, by leaving the county.
• 8ee?^ai, p. 4^1.
Mn Henr^ Pelham ••
Sir; I do not rise in opposition to tl
proposal made by that right hon. memb^
nor do I think this the proper time eith
ibr opposing or approving it.- Method
of the highest importance in enquiries li
these: and if the order of the debate
interrupted by foreign questions or in{
dental objections, no man will be able
conuder the clauses before us with the i
tention necessary to his own satisfactio
or to the conviction of others ; the mil
will be dissipated by a multipHcitj
views, and nothing can follow but p^
plexity and confusion.
The great end. Sir, for which we ai
now assembled, ia to strike out methw
of manning the fleet with expedition at
certainty. It is therefore proper in tl
first place to aa;ree upon some gener
measures, to each of which there may ui
doubtedly be particular objections raisa
that maybe afterwards removed byexce[
tions or provisions; but these provisior
should, for the sake of order, be inserte
in particular clauses, to be separately coi
sidered.
Of this kind is thfe exception now offereJ
to which I have no objection but its pM
sent impropriety, and the interruption c
the debate which it may now occasion : fc
I see at present no reason against admittb
it in a par-ticular clause.
When it is considered how much thl
succeas of the war may depend upon th
success of our present undertakings, I hop^
my solicitude for regularity and expeditioi
will be easily excused,
Sur Jokn Hind GOion :
Sir ; I am not able to discover anj im
mbent danger to the nation in suspending
our attention to the dause before us for i
few moments ; nor indeed do we cease ij
attend to it, while we are endeavouring tJ
monify it, and adapt it to our constitution!
^ The exception proposed is, in the opi|
nion of the hon. gentleman, so feasouable
that he declares himself ready to approve
it in another place ; and to me, no place
seems ^ more proper of its making part oi
this Bill than this. As a connection ben
tween the clause and expeption appcard
necessary and immediate, I cannot see
why it should be postponed, unless it k
hoped that it may be forgotten*
Mr. Pyktney :
Sir; that this exoeptian should be for-
til)]
66] IkkUm the Qi««ow> m ihe SeameM^ BUL
gotteo there is no danger ; fot haw loog
loerer it be delayed, I will nerer i^gree to
t^acttaileeeitiBserted. Kwe suffer
tltt libotjT of Ibe freobokleis ta be in-
fringed, wiiat can we expect but to be
dnraedwithbetniyinff our trust, and miw
up to •erntode ai^ oppression! thosi who
^uted OS to this assembly, as the guar*
doDS of tbeir privileges, aqd the assertors
of their birtbrlght; a diarge too just to
be drajed, and too atrocious to be borne !
Sir, the ri^t of a fiaeeholder is inde-»
peodatoa every other circumstance,' and
IS oeitUt Blade more or less by wealth or
povertr: die estate, however snudl, which
giroanjght of* voting, ought to exempt
tbe oner. from every restraint that may
imder (he exerUon of his right ; a right
on which our constitution is founded, and
wfaidi csonot be taken away without sub-
Totii^ our whole establishment*
To ov^oek the dbtinctions which the
fiindaiDental laws of our country have
Ddde in nsgeci to different orders of men,
lad to regard only the accidents- of vailu-
eDce and neoenity , is surely unjust in itself,
and iffl voitfay of this assembly ; an assem-
bij. Sir, ioititated principally to protect the
veik^siast the strong, and deputed to
Kpresent those in a couective state, who
ve Bot oooaderable enough to appear
BB^jr and daim a voice in tiie le^;islature.
Toenose an honest, a laborious, and
aa useful man, to be seized by the hands
<if aainaolentofficery and dragged from
t^QQojnieotof his right, omy because
^viu not violate his conscience, and add
^ voice to those of syconhants, depend-
^ md prdstitutest the slaves of power,
thednid^ofacourt, and the hirelings
of a &cdOD, is the highest degree of in-
jetice and cruelty. Let. us rather. Sir,
'^awsjwith an impress, the drones
^^ivgefortones, the tyrants of villages,
^ the oppressors of. the poor ; let us
^ige Uioee to serve their country by
^^v^MMe fortunes have h%d no other
eaectthan to make them insolent and
•artWas; but let such who by contri-
*^ to commerce* make every day
»«£ addition to the public wealth, be
^ in the full enjoyment of tl^e righto
vkich they deserve : let those by whose
^'^ the expences of the .war are fur-
^^be excused ham contributing to it
'? peisoasl service.
if it is neceanry. Sir, to have our laws
^^^ by the repi^esentativea of the
V**^ it is necessary that those repre-
^y^ ahonld be freely dect^; and
. A. D. 1741. [(»
dierefore every Uhr that obstructs the
liberty of voters,. is contrary tx> the funda-
mental ' laws of our constitution ; and
what multitudes may by this law be etdier
hindered from givinff their votes, or be
terrified into such a oioice as by no means
corresponds with their judgments or in^
dinations, it is easy to foresee* : . «
I am indeed of opinion. Sir, that this
clause cannot beaospted to our constitu-
tion, nor modified by any expedient into
a law, which will not lay insupportable
hardships upon the nation, and make way
fi)r absolute power. But, as it is neces-
sary that a constant supply of seamen
should be provided, I think it not impro-
per to observe, that there is one expedient
yet remaining^ by which, though it will nol
much assist us in our present exigenoei
the fleets of this nation may hereafter be
constantly supported.
We have at present great nmnbers'of
charity-schools establish^ in this nationy
where the children of the poor receive an
education disproportioned to their birthv
This has often no other consequences thanr
to make them unfit for their stations hj »
placing them, in their own opinion, above
the drudgery of daily labour, a notion
which is too much indulged ; as idlenite
C0H>perating with vanity, can hardly fiul
to gain the ascendant, and which some-
times prompts.them to support themselves
b^ practices not only useless but pernio
cious to society. Tnis evil. Sir, cannot
be better obviated than hy allotting a
reasonable proportion out of every school
to the service of the sea, in whicn by en-
teriiig early they cannot fail to become
proficients, and where their attaiximefit%
which at present too frequently produce
laziness and dishonesty, might enable them
to excel, and entitle them to promotion*
Mr. Winnington :
Sir; notwithstandtngthe confidence with
which some gentlemen have proposed thir
amendment, and the easiness with which
others have consented to'it, I declare with*
out hesitaUon, that I oppose it now, and-
intend to oppose it whenever it shall be
offered, because it wili defeat aU the other
provisions which shall be made in the Bill.
I will venture to say. Sir, that if every
man who has, by #iiatever tenure, tte
right of voting, shall be exemfited from the
necessity of contributing to the puMtC
safety by his personal service, every man
qualified for tne sea will by spme
acquire a yote.
■MB oak of dbemdi of • jiuft aai
C«
• Suv« verjr flmaU part of Aoae wkm p^
iitmv0bmwL ijiis natko, eaycnr that i^
is llie appendage •f a SteAoli; to Mfe ia
aoBse tairna, and'to beboni aoij^ athtft,
ghres the tinaUeoable pmilcge of vatiog.
Any genliemaii to secure his ami imerert,
or ototruet the pubhc aernce, attj^ hy
dividing a siaaU piaoe of harrea groand
araang ahuadred saAarSy exak diain all to
freriifiUanyand exempt them fimn the in-
flvcnce of this lav.
UoweveTy Sir, I aot not less a friead ta
the freeholdeia, tfaaa tiuBe who pvopise
die exception in their favour, hat m my
apsBton taa great interest of the fi«eliolders
is the pTSSenration of their finecfaoUb, wfaidi
aan omty he secured by a vigoraas exertion
af the power of the natiaBt ia the war
wUehis DowdeeiareAagainsttheSpaniaiidB.
Lord Barrington :
Sv; hj the observations whidi I have
opportaaities of msldiig at theplaee wWdt
I aaae the hoaaur toteprcseat, I am ooo-
¥9ioed of the inteeaoe llait this law wifl
haire upoa: all ihe bovoagfas aloag the
eaaalsu Tkeie most of die fiokers are, ut
one sense or other, 8sa-4irinff men, hcng
dmosft dl of them owners m vesseiB, ana
msomedcerea acquainted with navigatiaa ;
ihey vsmf tiierefore be hafried awi^ at die
ahoice of an officioas or oppreisive ma>
gistrate, who may, by partiality and in-
justice, obtain a mcgority, coatmry to the
general inclinatba of the people, and de-
tsr;Biine the election by his own authority.
Sir WUUam Yonge :
Sir ; if every fteeholder and voter is to
be paempted from the influence of the
law, the Bill timt we are, with aa moch
aEdottr,eMbeavouringtodrawi]paadr«ct»fy9
and of which the necessity is so genersillf
acknowledged, will be no other than an
empty sound, and a determination without
on object; for while we ave eiUpowering
the government to call seaaaen into the
aenrioe, we are exempting almost afl diat
aee able to serve firom the denomination of
seamen: What istfaisbiit to dispute without
asuMeet? to raise with one band and de-
molish with the other ?
. In die western parts of the naticm, Sir,
where I reside, many who vote at elections
daim thdr privilege by no other tide than
diat of boiluig a pot ; a tide which he who
has it not, may easily obtain, when it w^
«dKr gradfy his lazmess or his cowwdioe,
sad which> though not ocoasionallf ob-
tained, seems not sufficient to hM aay
sarrl
It is therefore^ Sir^ andoubtedly rsydali
that the tennsof the exception shsold h
explicit anddhinitive, and dutonlrtea
shmdd be eBeansted who have sodn psi
seasiona or ^pialmcatioas as l^ narmhi]
dmtt thinlc a jait tide to exempdoa. Hb
on the western coast, from whanos grai
simplies may ha expected, almoet ev^
saflor hasa vote, to whidi nothing is theii
required hat to hire a kidgiog and boil i
pot; after whieii^ if this exoeptiaa be d
■dttedinallitslatitada, he may sit at esi
smidst die distiames of his coontiy, ridi
cale the law whkh he has eluded, anda
tfaenaigiitfate at open defiaaoe.
Sir Robert Wa^le:
Sir; as Ithiah some exoeptiott mtyb
just and proper, ae I suppose every geaih
man win caaaar with me in tejectiag m
of such extent aashaU leave a«» object A
the operatson of the law*
Itis-in aqropiaioaproMrtoiastniatl
to thoBs freehoUen who si
of audi an estate, as giveiavol
the npresentadvo of the eountf , ^
which dmse adioae privi^ge arins tm
their property, will he seeuiad, sail
seeam reasonme that draae who hssa |iil
vilegei widMNit property^ should puitkai
them by liioir ssrviaes*
Mr. Brown :
Sir; the exeoption proposed wift m
oaiy defeat die end of the Bill bylsavis
it mw ohjectSy but will obstruct th^ ea
^mtion of it on proper occasions, and ii
voLve the magistrate m diAciidties wU
win either intimidate him in the exevtioi j
his authority, or if he persistB ia 41
charging his dati^ with firmness and^
will perhaps oblige him somettases ta rj
pentof hisidcdity.
It is die necessary consequence, SHr, i
a seaman's pvofesnon, that he is oAea it
great distance from tbe^ptace of his hfi
settlement, or patrimonial possessions ;«i
he may t^rerore assert of his own drcoB
stances what is most convenient witha
danger of detection. Distance isa securi
diat prompto many men to fatsheod t
which only vanity is gratified, and fr
men wii tall trath ra opposition to dis
interest, when they may lie without s|
pvehenaioa of bdng convicted.
When therdbre a magistrate reoein
diroctioas to impress $A theseamen wiM
hiadistrica^howfawwill hefiiidwbowi
MOd
of MM ob-
it is to •• yufpoag, 8if ,
dbiMiiCvw iihafc we
if rnkmiemUn^mem
ke shottU hf ninaktoy and,
k^micqiMQoa of b|» erv^p £mo a
inio iho^aenm^ whal lafMratiitt
MfBitbtdaaaadod?
llkaefiive propose klotho
iii of the cooimiUee, whether enjr i
mifa te cUm earmptitw ftoM we law
bgr t tUe, tfaatMoj sofMiiljr be pvoowed^
Mr. Attorney Genend Jfy&r;
Sr; the practice of Inpressu^^ which
Ipibien declaimed against with such ve-
kmat eiag^eratioDs, is not only founded
ei aDBemoria] custam, which makes it
f«t of the common law, foot is likewise
mrtMifd hf our statutes ; forlremem-
hr to bare fbued it in the statutes of
mm Msnr^ and therefore cannot allow
Miteo^t to be treated as iSieffif and
Tbatit is not inconsistent with pur con-
ftribjon^nm be proved from the practice
if sndu^ the rojal standard^ upon yreat
QtmnrifOi to which every man was
iH^ immediately to repair ; thisprac-
(um ss old as oar constitutioB^ an4» as it
3rbs levived at pleasure, may be pro-
[j meatiflDed as e^uivdent to an im-
&; diis word, which the Teamed mem •
W lits by his wonderful diKgence, dis-
esvoel in the statutes, may perhaps be
Iher^ hot in a signification far different
fan dist which it bears at present. The
loid % without doubt, origmally French,
■i^ tind iaiplied what is now expressed
(j the term * ready ;* and to impress any
fionpiibioD, pursuit, and violence, but by
AsaDurements Of a pecuniary reward, or
17 dke obligation of some ancient tenure.
Hb debate ended in a J^epoit^ That the
'^tee had made sooie progress, and
leave to sit again.
5. Ifecenicdamitiorfofdnrers
of Aeir«tlteaMi
SHL A. & mi.
[7*
m the ^Mt opA rae^iiig tr«i«, m, he-
half ef themttilvei aitd ethers^ ^ cook
pkuaiac ef ^ uarmsoBifcliT wagiM de-,
meodecU aftd paid to aaaiaaers in the meiK
ehonts' servioe of kile» whkh is mere than
double of what is paid by aay foreign b»-
tion in Europe, (hcaidea cvimpage» and h
month's pay advanced to each mariner) to
the discouragement of the trade of these
kingdoms: and representing to the House^
that this growing evil, if m>t prevented by
a law, win faincter the mariners from evef
entering themselves on board the dups of
W8r,wme the disproportion of wages paid
to mariners in the king's service, and that
of the merdumt is so ^eat; tSie WBf;ei
paid to narinerB in the buff's service bemg
about SS^.and with oAer advantages about
28<. ner month, when the mariners m the
menmant's service are paid, and demand
55f • and S^ per montii : and further re<^
presenting, tnat aa the Petitioners ap{m«
hend the present practice carried on m im«
pressing mariners from on board the home^
ward-boimd meadiant-diips, and-ff om the
idiore, does not answer the 'end proposed ;
and that a great many persons nuAre H
their business to seduce and encourage
mariners to act contrary to die inient of
an act 1st of king Geor^ % far the better
r^uiation of mariners in tlv6 mercnants*.
service i and farther, con^daining of vexa^
tious suits carried on against the toasters
and owneiB of rfdps, by die advice of
paictitionerB in the hioh court of. admij-
rahy : and fiirther settmg forth, that the
act of navigation obliges eveiy cAiip to
cany three fourths English anarinen^
which will be again in force when the pre-
aent war is over; but that as they often tft
foreign' ports enter, or are entered on
board his majestjr's ships^ it is in^ossflble
to comply with the said ieict, and l!ne mer«
4;haat'sniM are liable to beccane a seiaofe
even to the very man of war who has taken
their men from them: And thereftirepray'-
ing the House to permit them to be hwd
by themselves or* counsel upon ttie said .
petition ; and to mnt that such provision
may be made in niture, by regulating the
price of mariners' wages in the metchantt*
service, and to prevent such growiif
fldbuses practised by those under the saoc-
tion or the high court of admiralty, ia
ordet- efectudlly t6 man his niajesty's ships
of war without impressing, and'to encoa*
rage 4her trade and navigation of tiiese
Ipngdoms, as te the Ho»e shall aeete
meet." Ordered lo lie en OietaUek
T4]. 14«E0R6£IL tMaiem^Commmi^Oe SMmiufBOL [li
dMisaid BBl, $L Clfttite was read* by whidi
every ;6oB8tabley headbonMiffby • tjthiiig-
many or oilier pertoo, nafe liaUe to be exa-
mined upon oath by the jostieas of the:
j^ce, wno Here empowerad to lay a ffaie
upon tkem §or any neglect, eibnce, or
connivanee; after which
Sir John Barnard rose and said :
Sir; it i8 the peculiar happiness of the
British nation, tnat no law can be made
without the consent of their representa-
tives; and I hope no such infatuatioii can
ever fall upon them, as may influence them
to chuse a representative capable of con-
curring in absurdities like this.
The folly, the iniquity^ the stupidity o^
this clause, can only be conceived by hear-
ing it repeated; it is too flagrant to.be
extenuated^ and too gross to admit exag-
gerations ; to oblige a man to make oath
against himself, to subject himself by his
pwn voice to penalties and hardships, is at
pnce cruel and ridiculous; a wild compli-
pation of tyranny and folly.
, . To call upon any man to accuse himself^
is only io call upon h^a to commit perjury,
and has therefore been always accounted
irrational and wicked; in those countries
where it is practised, the confession is ex-
torted by the rack, which indeed is so ne-
cessary on such occasions, that I should
not wonder to hear the promoters of this
/clause openly declaring for the ejjcpedi-
^ncy of ^ortiires.
; Nothing is more evident than that this
^Bill, however the importance of the occa-
sion may be magnified, was drawn up with-
out reflection, and that the clauses were
never understood by those that offered
jthem; errors like these must arise only
.from precipitation and neglect, for they
^re too gross to be committed either by
Jgnorar\ce or design.
. 7*0 expose such absurdities is indeed
.easy, but not pleaaing; for what end is
answered by pomting at folly, or how is
the puol^c service advanced by shewing
that the methods proposed are totally to
, be rejected ? Whejre a proposition Is of a
t mixed kind, and pnly erroneous in part, it
. IS an usefjul and no disAgree]l)Ie task to
.separate t,ruth frqm error, and disentangle
from ill ponseguepc^, sudi .measures 98
may be pui;sued ^itb ^ advantage to the
. public ; but inere stupidity can only prp-
, doce compassion, ^nd a^rd no oppprt^ji-
, jnities For enquiry o^ dispute.
Si^ Chi^rUs Wager /
Sir; tbiaclauacy however contiemptiioua-
ly treated, hat been aheady passed into M
law by a partiaooeDt whieh brought no m
honour upon the British nation, by a tM»J
.liflHient wiich waa courted and dieaded bjj
the greatest part of the onivene, and ini
drawn up by a ntmstiy that have give^
their posterity no ' reason to treat thed
with derision and contumely.
In the reign of queen Anne, this method
of prooeedting was approved and establish-
ed, and we may judge of the propriety oi
the measaies followed in that war, by titf
suooass which they procured.
Those therefore by whom thu Bill wtt
drawn up have conmutted no new absurdi*
ties, nor have proposed any thing wbicfa
was not enacted by the wisest of our pre-
decessors, in one of the most illustrious
periods of our history.
Mr. Gybbon :
Sir; I am fiir from thinking a proposi-
tion sufBciently defended by an assertira
that it was admitted by our predecessor^
for though I have no mclination to viliQ
their memory, I may, without scruplej
affirm that they had no pretensions to ia
fallibility, and that there are in many of oui
statutes instances of such ignorance, ere
dulity, weakness, and error, as cannot tx
considered without astonishment !
In questions of an abstruse and cmnpli
cated nature, it is certain. Sir, that cxpe
rience has taught us what could never bari
been discovered, previously, bv the wis
dom of our ancestors; and we have foum
by their consequences the impropriety c
many practices which they approved, an
which we should have equally applaude
in the same circumstances.
But to what purpose is observation,
we naiist shut our eyes asainst it, and aj
peal for ever to the wisdom of our ance
tors ? If we must fall into error, mere)
because they were mistaken, and riu
upon rocks out of veneration to those wl
were wrecked against them?
In questions easily to be examined, ac
determinations which comprized no pe
plexmg contrarieties of interest, or rouli
plicity pf circumstances, Uiey were equal
liable with ourselves to be supine andne
liffent, to smk intd security, or be surpri
ed by haste. That the clause now befo
.us was ehacted by them, must be ascrib
merely to the hurry of the session in whi
it was bron^t belbse them. A time
which so many enooiries of the high<
, imnoftanoe wen to be made, and so gn
a 4iveiiity of Tiewsto be tegar^i d
IS] MaUmike Cawwim m At Semiimu^ BSL A. D. 1741. [74
il j$ BO voider tbM tome abtiirdittM iliJMild
ocape without detectHMi.
In the 4(h of the reign dp • the queen,
Ail BiU wai bron^t in|. as noir» at the
litter end of a fleaaion, when the attention
of the HouK was fiitigaed and distracted,
lod it wai hortied throogfa hoth Hoines,
and ratified by her nu^esty with very little
But thea, as this circumstance may be
jBstlj termed an extenuation of their error,
it oaght lobe a lesson of caution to us,
thaweniynot be« in tiie like manner,
betrtyed ioko the same weakness*
^; the conduct of our predecesson
fmm not tostand in need of any ex-
cuse; for it might be easjy to vindicate it
br arguments, but that it is more proper
to ippnnre it bv imitation.
Wheoerer the BUI was passed, or how
haitflj soever the law was enacted, it was,
I bdieve, rather the efiisct of necessity
thn of insdvertency ; of the same*neees-
iitj which BOW presses, and which is very
li) cmihed by tedious debates.
They were then involved in a war, and
vere not so: distracted by private interests
n Dot to onite in the most vigorous oppo-
otioo of their enemies. They knew that
tbepoblic good is often promoted bv the
toiporafymconveniencies of individuals;
nd, whoi afiurs of the highest impor-
tttcedemnded their^attention, when the
Kcwity of the whole natioor and the hap*
pees of their posterity were the subject
^thdr eaqniries, they wisely sufiered less
(QBaderations to pass without superfluous
and ansessooable solicitude.
How jintly they reasoned. Sir, and
wbt Ti^Kur their resolutions gave to the
Bi^^ operations, our victories are a
to^om proof; and if experience be the
n^t guide, it cannot be improper -to
niiate those who, in the same arcimi-
"iDoei with ourselves, found means to
^ the honoor, and improve the com-
nece of their country.
That our circumstances are the same
*^ thoie of the parliament by which thb
^ wu made, is obidous beyond dispute;
«»heie thev waiy, the difierence isper-
h" tooor disadvantage. We have, Sir,
^taaie enemies, or, at least, 'ha^ reason
l^tppfchend die same; but have little
^ of the saaK^ allies. The present war
ittobecaniM on al« greater distance,
places at this same instant;
tteefane aopply our ships oo-
»dm
si
casionaUy, but muat raise great numbers
in a short time.
If therefore it was Ihen concluded, that
the method tmder our examination was
useful; if measures, not eligible in them*
selves, may be authorized by necessity,
why may not we, in compliance with the
same exigence, have recourse* to the same
expedients ?
Sir William Yonge :
Sir ; how much weight is added to the
determination of the House, by the digni^
of their procedure, and the decency of
their dinputations, a slight knowledge of
mankind is sufficient to evince. It is well
known that government is supported by
opinion ; and that he who destroys the
reputation, destroys the authority of tho
legislative power. Nor is. it less apparent,
that he who degrades debate into sciur«
rility, and destroys the solemnitv of con*
suitation, endeavours to sink the House
into contempt.
It was therefore. Sir, with indignation
and surprize that I heard the clause before
us censured with such indecency of lan-
guage, and the authors of it treated with
contumelies and reproaches that mere
error does not deserve, however apparent,
but . which were now vented before any
error was detected.
I know not. Sir, why the eentlemen who
were thus indecently attacked, have suf-
fered such reproaches without censure and
without reply. I know not why they have
omitted to put the hon. sentleman in mind
of the respect due to this assembly, or to
the characters of those whom he opposes ;
gentlemen equally skilled with himself in
the subject of our enquiries ; and whom
his own attainments, however large, or his
abilities, however comprehensive, cannot
give him a right to charge with ignorance
or folly.
To reproach men with incajpacity is a
cheap method of answering tneir argu-
ments, but a method which the rules ol*
this House ought to exclude from our de-
bates, as the ^neral civility of the world
has banished it from every other place of
concourse or conversation.
I, for my part. Sir, shall always endea-
vour to confine my attention to the ques-
tion before us, without sufienng my rea-
son to be biassed, or my enquiries diverted
by low altercations, or personal imimosi-
ties; nor when any other man deviates
into reproachful and contemptuous lah-
guagOr shall I. be induced to •think more
75] U OEORGE U. JMolv m ii»
iN^y of diher hm mgmmim m m|m-
city.
Sir John Barnard:
Sir; I have always beard k lepieMiiied
as an tnslanoe of iotegrtly wbtn toe toog«a
and heart neve in eoocert, when the wwds
aierepresentatioQSof thesentiMents; aftd
have therefore hitherto endeaveured to
expUun my arguments with perspicuity,
and to impress ray sentiments with force ;
I have thought it hypocrisy lo treat atu-
pidUty with reverence^ or to hosoiir non-
lense with the ceremony of a confutatbn.
As knaveiyy so fotty that is Bot reriniwa
Ue, is to b^ speedily dispalohed, bHamasa
la to be iieed mm obatnictiogiy and seeiaty
fioro nuisance.
Nar, 6ir» wUen I am ocnanred bv those
whom I aoay offend by the nae ot laraM
correspondent with my ideas, wiU I, by
a tame and silent sohinissien, give reaaon
tesuspect that 1 am caDsdoua of a fiuilt,
but will treat the accusatidn with open
contempt, and diew no gceatcr regard to
tke sbettoes, iiian to the authors of ab-
amdity.
That deeeney is of great use in public
debatea, 1 shall readily allow ; it may some-
times shelter fUly from ridicule, and pre-
aerve villainy Iran puUic detiection ; nor
IS it ever more carefully suppoiied, than
wjhyen meniiirm are promoted that nothing
can preserve from contempt, but the so-
Jenmiiy with which they are mtablished.
Decency is a proper circumstance ; but
liberty is the essence of parliamentary dis-
quisitions : liberty is the parent of tmth ;
bat truth and decencnr ace jometimes at
variance: allmenandallproposidona are
to be treated here as they oeserve ; and
there are many who have no claim either
to respect or decency.
miik
H
which aae *a aobfsci of the debate,
some other to thia purpose; That no pa
son shall he liable to be fined by virtue <
tUi aot» unlem a witoem ~
shall BMke oalb of the
ne|dect.
Thus the necessity of enaraining roi
upmi oath in their own cause will be ei
tirely taken away, and as the claiiae m
then stand, Iheie will n
of imuslioe or oppfOMion, because nool
can be practised without the cOBOurread
of amny pernnna of di&reaft iDlevaetB.
Vlx. Horatio Walpole :
Sir; it does not yet appear diat tl^
whe haae eng^ed k& this de
have suficiBnlly attended lo the ed
genee of oiir affiurs* and die importance <^
the ^mtion. Th«f have lavished thci
oratory in dedaiaung unen the abaurdit]
of the methodapiDposed»«nd diacoverei
ty, by shewing how frua^
nuiy be supplied frem charity
bat have suhetilulfld no exp«
dieata in the phwe of thoee which Aey n
warmly condmnn, nor hove oondeacende
to inform OS, hew we may now^uoid oil
or man ouriaeta for
Mr. Winnington:
Sir; that it is impfoper an its own na-
ture, and inconsistent with our constitutiony
io lay any man under an obligation to ac-
cuse himself* cannot he denied ; it is there-
fore evident, that some amendment is ne-
cessary to the clause befooe us.
I have for this reason drawn on an
amendment, Sir, which, if apprevea by
tfa« committee^ will in ay opimea remove
nil the ob|ections to this part of the Bill,
and by reconciling it with our natural and
Jc(gsl rights, I hope, induce those to ap-
prove it who have hitherto opposed it.
1 therefore propose that these words
ahould he subatitoted instead of those
There are some drcuamtancea^ Sir, 4
the present arar, which nmke our necessit
of raising aea fbrcea greater than in tfa
times of king William and qneen Ann
The chief advanta^ that we gained am
the Frendi in their wars, were the conn
quenoes of mff victories by land.
At sea. Sir, the balance vros ahno
equal, though the Dutch fleet and ou
were united; nar did they quit the seah
cause their fleela wem destro3red, but b
cause they were oblmed to lecruit the
hmd fines with thmr aaikta. Shou
they now dedore war againat na, thi
wouUL be under no each neoeesity of d
fraoding the aea service, for tiiey ha^
now en leot an amy of 160,000 me
which are maintaioed at no gaeater e
pence than 40,000 br the Bdttah gover
osent; as they ase therefare. Sir, so fc
nndahle by land, we have no way oS c
peeing them hut by our sealbrceeu
Nor is thek nanry so contemptible
some havn either by oonjaotune or misi
ibrmatfonrepesentedit. Tl^ fleet whi
they hane dispatched to America consi
not of fewer than twnnty ahipa, of whi
the least carry shcty guns, and they i
fitting out now an equal nunsbnr ni th
own porta; tnidm» their Eoat JaJin c«
77] DebdgmOe
m iie Seamenf BiU. A. IX 1741.
[W
w ■ obl^cd to fbraBh teo tUps.of
tktioe»attlieileniaBdof tbe gowmnnnt.
Tin k ippeart w« have ncighboun
Hfdendy poveifid to alarm wwidi the
mm ff'wmmdmlbt danger; teigerwhidi
B made iMMe iniuMeAt bv the eKpe^tkwB
■edMdi bf wiadi the much man their
ileeli, and which we must ioBlate if we
hope ti apf«e them wiUi saocen.
Ineedaotaaf how little wecan iepmd
opoo annrpraftMMa rfaeHtralily, which
vil] be best obseryed when they caaiiot
be Komdtf viofatted ; or upon the pacific
hi&aliiiaf their minister; which inte-
na^feniaaoa or eaprice, may altery'and
Is rk& it it not very honoiinil>le to trust
ftrdetv. How can that natioa nnk
Jwer, wiiidi is ool v free, heoaiBe it is set
andedbyilineiijhboure; and retaioi Hm
p— iom, only became no other has
leisiire orindioation to taike Aien away!
If it ba adsed what can prompt the
Faadi la munapl «i in the proaecutioii
«f oardJeagaa, and m the poniAment of
teevbalare^phiideredand inaiilted us?
kbaataaiy aaay to arge Hie rtiictal-
laKektaeea theewo orewna, the ties«f
bM, tfaa conformity <ii intereata^ and
tiMir equal hatred of tile EagKaby but ano-
ti» more iramediaee reason may be
>UbL It k awpecstod that mider pre-
tnee flf viaiicating omr own righta^ we are
Alcmn^ togam the poaaeaaion of the
^pnubdnmnioBa^ and engroas the wealth
atbiDev world, and tiiat therefore it la
^ iMeveit of erery power, whose sri^
JRts tnie ta those ceimtries, to ofmese us.
IVqi, whether we aocoeed or fail in our
tttca^m America, we have the French
P**er to apprehemk If we midie con^
?nts tlwjr sHir probaMy thhik It neces-
■J Is olmate die torrent of oar victories,
wtokMertheineveaaeof our dominions,
i^theyni^ aecope ther own trade, and
■t^taii mstt own innnence*
If vedioald be defeated, of which no
^8ir, ma deny the poasMlity, the in-
^'^otioa of aM to maidt the depressed, and
^ poaii doan the ftiliBg is well known ;
^onitbe eipected Itet onr hereditary
*f<oKi vsoU neglect so Mr an oWortn-
Hotkey amht ravage onr coasta, ttid
I "<^o«traae, how they might tri-
bal the ehaoael, and block us up in
; y<^ porta, boflriiard our towns, and
2||]i^ as wMi iavasioBS, I hope I need
^Myaaention^tohidtethis aaserably
^*i^«ipaMi inmamdng our fleets,
^ sscfue osat enee ftom iasults, and
i ^terror.
U is oadoidbtedly. Sir, in onr power ta
ise a naval force saffictent to awe the
ocean, and lestrain the most daring of our
enemies from any attempts against us, but
this cannot be efibcted by harangues^
obwctioM, and disputations*
There is nediing. Sir, more; fre^jiaently
the subject of n^ery or declamation,
than the useftdness or danser of a standi
inff army; to which I dedare myself na
otherwise inclined than b^ my eoncen fiv
the coBwion sa&ty ; I wdlmgly allow thai
not one soldier ought to be supported by
the public, whose service is not neceasary ;
but aurely none of thoae who dedare so
warmly for the hoaoar and prnrilegas of
tfieir country, would ezpoae it to meai»
suits of IbreiBB powers without defences
If dierefore they thmk the danger of hmd-
fercea BMMe than ecpiivalent to die benefit,
they ought uaanimoody to concur in tiie
increase of our naval strength,, by which
they may be protected, hut cannot he op-
prmsed; they onght wiiingly to give
their asaistance to any pro|io8itions^for
making the fleet fimnidahle, that thchr
declarations against die ar^y mqr not
be thought to proceed firom aresofaation to
obstruct the measures of the government,
mdter dwn from zeal for the constitution.
For he that equally opposes the cstabhab
ment of the army, and dM improvcmesit
gC die nary, dedares m effect against die
security of the nation ; and dMxigh, pav-
haps, withoutdesign, exposes his esintrf*
men to die mercy of thenr enemies.
Mr. Pvkeney :
Sir; I cannot dSscovmr for wimt asason
the Bill before us is so vigorously sup
ported, but nsust observe that I have sei«
dom known auch vehement and centioa-
ed effiarts produced by naere public tfpavil,
and umnmgled rmrd for the happineas of.
the nation. Nothing, Sir, that can he
urged in favotu* of the measures nowpro-
poBed,.has been omitted. When argu^
meats are confuted,. precedents are cited;
when precedents fail, the advocates for the
Btil have recourse to terror and neoea-
si^, and endeavour to frighten those whom
they cannot convince.
&it perhaps, Sir, these formidable phan-
toms may soon be put to fli|ht, and, like
the other ittusions <n cowardice, disappear
before the liriit. Perhaps this necessify
wSl be found only chimerical; and these
dangers appear only the visions of credu-
lity, or the bugbears of imposture.
To arrive at a dear view of our present
J9]
14 GEORGE IL DOaUmAeCamlMotutmihe Semum^ BOL fS
comUdaa, it will be neoett&ry. Sir, net to
•muse ounehes with general assertioiis,
or orerwhelm our reason by terrOying
exaggerations: let us consider distinctly
the power and the conduct of our enemies,
and enquire whether they do not affright
us more than they are able to hurt us.
Thattheforoeof Spain, alone. Sir, is much
to be dreaded, no man will assert ; for that
empire, it is well known, has long been
seized with all the symptoms ofdedining
power, and has been supported, not by its
own strength, biit by the interests of its
neighbours. The vast dominions of the
Spaniards are only an empty shew ; they
are lands without mhabitants, and by con-
aequence without defence ; they are rather
excrescences than members of the mo>
narchy, and receive support rather than
eommunicate. In the distant branches of
their empire the government languishes,
as the vital motion in an expiring body ;
and the struggles, which they now make,
may be termed rather agonies than efforts.
rrom Spain therefore unassisted, we
have nothing to apprehend, and yet from
thencSe we have been threatened with in-
sults and invaakms.
That the condition of the French is Bar
different, cannot be deni^ ; their com-
merce flourishes, their dominions are ccm-
aected, their weahh increases, and their
government operates with full vigour:
dieir influence is great, and theirnames for-
midable. But I cannot allow. Sir, that they
have yet attained such a height of power
as should alarm us with constant appre-
hensions ; or that we ought to secure our-
selves against them by the violation of our
liberties. Not to urge that the loss of
freedom, and the destruction of our con-
sdtution, are the worst consequences that
can be apprehended from a conquest; and
that to a slave the change of his master is
of no great importance, it is evident, that
the power of tne French is of such kind
as can only affect us remotely, and con-
sequentially. They may fill ttie continent
wim alarms, and ravage the territories of
Germany by their numerous armies, but
can only injure us by means of their fleets.
We may wait, Sit, without a panic terror,
though not without some degree of
anxiety, the event of their attempts upon
the neighbouring princes, and cannot be re-
duced to fight for our altars and our houses,
but by a second armada, which, even
then, tne winds must &vour, and a thou-
sand circumstances concur to expedite-
Silt that no such fleet can be fittifd
out by the united endeavours of the whoik
work! ; that our navy, in its preaent state
is superior to any that can be brougfa
against us, our minialerB ou^t Dot to b
if^norant : and therefore to dispirit the na
tion with apprehensions of armiea hoverlnj
in the air, and of conquerors to be waf\ei
over by super-natural means, is to deatro
that happiness which .govemmeot waa or
dained to preserve; to sink us to tanoeoe^
and cowardice« and to betray us to insult
and to robberies.
If our danger. Sir, be such as has beei
represented, to whom must we impute it
Upon whom are our weakness, our pover
ty, and our miseries to be charged i Upo
whom, but those who have ueurpcd th(
direction of afiairs which they did not un
derstand, or which their solicitude for th<
preservation of their own power hindered
them from attending ?
That the Spaniards, Sir, are now enab]e<
to make resistance, and perh^M to insul
and depopulate our colonies; that th<
French have diq^atched a fleet into th<
American seas, to obstruct, as may hi
conjectured, the progress of our arms, an<
that we are in danger of meeting an oppo
sition wh^ch we £d not expecty is to<
evident to be concealed.
But, Sir, is not the spirit of our eoemie
the consequenee rather of our cOwardic<
than of their own strength ? Does not tin
ojpposition to our designs, by whatever na
tion it shall be nuide, arise from the con
tempt which has been brought upcm us bi
our irresolution, forbearance, and delays {
Had we resented the first insult, and re
paired our earliest losses by vigorous re
prieals, our merchants haa long ago car
ried oa their traffic with security, our ene
mies would have courted us with respect
andouralUes supported us with eon£dence
Our negociations, treaties, proposalsi
and concessions, not only affi>raed thex^
leisure to collect their forces, equip thei
fleets, and. fortify their coasts, but gavi
them likewise spirit to resist those wh<
could not be conquered but by their owi
cowardice and n>lly. By our iU-timec
patiedce, and lingering preparations, w<
encouraged those to unite against us, ^wIh
would otherwise haye only hated us it
secret; and deterred those fr<Hn declaring
in our favour, whom interest or 'gratitude
might have inclined to assist us. For whc
will support those from whom no mutua
supp<M't can be expected { And who will
expect that those will defend their alliesj
who desert th^mselyes ?
81] tkiiOe M Ae Cmlmni on ihe^Seamenf BiU. A. D. IT4L
[88
BM| Sir, bowever late our resentment
ns mrakebedy had the war been prose-
cuted tigoroudy after it was deciared, we
fflffiht hire been now tecore from danger,
CDd freed from sospense, nor would any
tiibg bave remained but to give la^i^s to
oar eoeBiies.
IVqoi tbe success of Vernon, with so
mcoDsidertdile forces, we may conjecture
wfait voold have been performed wiUi an
ansaneiit proportionea to his undertak-
ing; and way tie was not better supplied,
DO TmoQ has yet been given ; nor can it
be 0»)j discovered why we either did not
begin the war before our enenues had
coflcerteddieir measures, or delay it till
vebadferaied our own.
XotvithstandingBomeopportunitieshave
ken negjlected, and all tibe advantages of
aaiddeii attack hare been irrecoverably
kat; ootiridistaQding our friends, Sir,
lore leinied to despise and neglect us, and
oar eaemies are animated to confidence
ind obstinacy, yet our real and intrinsic
itreogth coDtmues the same ; nor are there
yet aoy preparations made against us by
tbe eneinj, with riews beyond their own
Kcotitj ttid defence. It does not yet ap-
peiTi &, tbat our enemies, however inso-
W, look opon us aa die proper objects of
> eoB^ofist, or that diey imagine it possible
to benmuB in oar own ports, or to confine
QB to Ae defence of our own country.
We ne not therefore to have recourse to
Betsares, which, if they are ever to be
sotted, can be justified by the utmost
^tres; and can only become proper, as
tile hit and desperaie expedient. The
H^ODJ, Sir, ought to appear not only in
oanen, but in oar ports, before it can be
Beoewry that oi&e part of the natioQ
Md be ealaved for the preservation of
To destroy any part of the community,
*Ue it is in our power to preserve the
«|^ is certainly absurd, and inconsistent
*ith the equi^ and tenderness of a good
Kmrnnent : and what is slavery less than
wtsction? What greater calamity has
^ man to expect, too has been already
^qpnvedofhB liberty, and reduced to the
«»id with thieves and murderers ? With
^^ i[Hnt, Sir, will he draw his sword
^ bts mvaders, who has nothing to de-
fed? Or why should he repel the injuries
^^idiwiO make no addition to his misery,
lad vill do only on those to whom he is
csikred? .
It IS wen known that gratitude is the
■"«>dstkm of our duty to our country,
and to our superiors, whom we are obliged,
to protect on some occasions, because
upon othet^ we receive protection from
them, and are maintained m the quiet pos-
session of our fortunes, and the security of
dur lives. But what gratitude is due to
his country from a man distinguished,
without a crime by the legislature^ from*
Ae rest of the people, and marked out for;
hardships and oppressions? From a man ^
who is condemnea to labour and to daa-
5er, only that others may fatten with ^n-
olence, and slumber without anxiety?
From a man who is dragged to misery
^thout reward, and hunted from bis re-^
treat, as the property of his master ?
Where gratitude, Sir, is not the motive
of action, which may easily happen in
minds not accustomed to observe Uie enda
of government and relations of society, in«
terest nevdr fails to preside, which may be
distinguished from gratitude, as it regjarids
the immediate consequences of actions,
and confines the view of present advan-«
tages. But what interest can be gratified
b^ a nian who is not master of his own ac- ,
tionsy nor secure in the enjoyment of his'
ac^ubitions ? Why should he be solicitous
to increase his property, who may be torn
from the possession of.it in a moment?
Or upon what motive can he act, who will
not Decome more happy by doing hia
duty?
Many of those, to whom this Bill is'
proposed to extendi have raised fbrtunes
at the expence of tneir ease, and at the
hazard of^ their lives ; and now sit at rest,
enjoymg the memory of their past hard-
ships, and inciting others to the prosecu-
tion of the same adventures : how will it
be more reasonable to drag these men froooi
their houses, than to seize any other gen- -
tleman upon his own estate? And how,
negligently will our navigation and our,
commerce be pronfU>ted, when it is dis-.
covered that either wealth cannot be,
gained by them ; or, if so gained, cannot
be enjoyed?
But It is still urged. Sir, that there is a
necessity of manning the fleet ; a neces^ty .
which indeed cannot totally be denieo,
though a short delay would produce no
frightful consequences, would expose ua
to no invasions, nor disable us froAi {irose*
cuting the war. Yet as the necessity at
least deserves the regard of the legtslatucca
let us consider what motives have Iiitherto
gained men over to the public service;,
let us examine how our land-forces are.
raised, and how our metcbaiita ejUip their
V [01
83]
14 QEORGB. II. IMate in the CmmwuM the Seamiuf BA [8f
Bhips. . Hpw is, all this tS^t^d without
muimurs, mutiniesy or disconteat, but by
the natural and easy metliod of offering re-
wards f ,
It may be objected, Sir^ that rewards
- have been ^ready proposed without effect;
but, not to mention the corrupt arts which
have been made use of to elude that pro-
mise, by rejecting those thatcan^e to claim
them, we can infer fi*om their idelBcaey
only, that the^^ were toO' small ; that they
were not suiBuent to dazzle the attention,
aod withdraw it from the prospect ot the
dwtant advantages which niay ariAie from
the service of the merchants. Let the re-
ward therefore be doubled, and if it be not
then sufficiept, doubled anew. Ttiere is
nothmg but may be bought, if an adequate
price is offered ; and we are therefore to
raiso the reward till it shall be adjudged by
the sailors equivalent to the inconveni^ncies
of tlie service.
Let no man urge that this is profusion ;
that it is a breach of^rust, and a prodi-
gality of the public money. Sir, the money
tnus paid is the price of liberty ; it is dis-
Jiursedto hindersJavery from encroaching;
to preserve our natural rights from infrac-
tion, and the constitution of our country
from violence. If we vote away'the pri-
vilege of one class among us, those of ano-
ther may quickly be demanded ; and slavery
will advance by degrees, till the last re-
mains of freedom jshall. be lost.
But^ perhaps, Sir,' it will appear, upon
reflection, that even this method needs
not to be practised. It is well known,
thattt is not necessary for the whole crew
of a ship to be expert sailors ; tliere must
be some novices, and many whose em-
ployment has more pf labour than of art.
We have now a numerous army which
burthens our country, without defending
it, and from whom we may therefore draw
supplies for the fleet, and distribute them
amongst the ships in just proportions;
the^ may immediately assist the seamen,
and will become able in a short time to
traih up othei:8. . ,
It vml doubtless. Sir, be objected to
this proposal, that the continent is in con-^
fusion, and that we ought t6 continue such
a force as may enable us to assist our al-
lies, maintain «ur influence, and tutn ^e
scale of af&irs in the nieighbouring coun-
tries. I know not how we are indebted to
our allies, or by what ties we are obliged
to assist those who never assisted us; nor
can I, upon mature consideration, think it
accessaiy to be always gazing on the con-
tinent» tt-atching the motioM of aveiy po-
tentate, and anxiously attentive to every .
revolution. There is na end. Sir, of ol^
viating contingenciea, of attempting to .se-
cure ourselves from every possibilitj of
danger. I am indeed desirous that our
friends, if any there be that deserve that
n^e, should sucaeed in their designs^ and
be protected in their claims ; but think it
ougnt always to be remembered, that our
own aflairs afl^t us immediately, theirs-
only by consequence ; and that the nearest,
danger iJB to be first regarded.
With respect to the amendment offered
to this clause, I cannot see that it will pro^
duce any advant^, nor think any evi* .
dence sufficient to justify the breach of.
our ooostitution, or subject any man to
the hardship of having his dwelUng entered
by force.
A^d, Sir, I am not entirely] satisfied of
the impartiality and equity with which it
is promised tliat this law .will be put ia
execution, or what new influence is to oo*
operate with this law, by which corruption
and oppression will be prevented.
It is well known. Sir, that many other .
laws are. made inefiectuid by partiality
or negligence, which remarkably appears
by the immense quantities of corn that'are
daily carried into foreign countries, by il-
legal exportations» by which traffic I am
informed that we obtain most of our fo*
reign gold, which m reality is paid us for
com by the Dutch ; though it is studiously
represented to the nation as gained by our
traffic with Portugal, who can assure us
that this law will not be perverted afler
the example of others ? And that there
win not be wretches found that may eoi-
ploy it to the extortion of money^ or the
gratification of revenue ? «
Thus, Sir, I have meswn by what means .
our fleet may now be equipped, and how a
supply of sailors may be perpetuated ; for .
I cannot think how the boys which are
educated at charity-schools can be more
properly employed; a proportion may be
easily selected for the service, who will
benefit the public much more than by
serving sharpers and attomies, ^and pilfer-
ing eiUier at low gaming houses, or m the
inns of court.
Since therefore is it not pretended. Sir,
that tliis Bill can be justified otherwise
than by necessity, and it app^rs that sup-
plies may be raised by other means; since
instead of increasmg and encouraging
seamen, nothing is.proposed thtt does not
manifestly tend by dqpressiqg and har-
9
85] DOide m ik$ Cmmmm m Ifa 8eamen$* BfL A. IX lYM.
r tfitmy to dfamBith their niimben;
1 think it lenonaMe m decltre that I ihall
coBtiBoeta opfNMeit, and hope that every
ineod &[Vbekyf or commeroe, will concur
iothe'Oiipeeitioo.
Sk Robert Walpok .'
Sir; I have cooiidered the bill before
m widi the atiaoat impartialitjr, ancl 1 <ian
ice no reman to apprehend that it will
fradnoe aoch nBrvmal discontent, and
fife occHipn to ao many abuses as the
bon. gqntlenien by whom it is opposed
sppetrtonspect. It is not uncommony
Sir, is jodgutf of future events, and
tnaog eftcts nan causes^ for the most
I to be mistaken.
t flslest method of conjecturinff upon'
the istwe, b to consider tlie past, for it k
alwijt probaUe, tliat from like causes like
fOMfqiMiices wfll aese. Let us therefore,
Sir, exsmine what injustice or oppression
his hfenJiitherto pmiucedby laws of the
He power of searchinff, howevw it is
Mr bccomethe subieci cf loud exdama-
tkm, snd pathetic harangues, is no new
invswrn of the rigfataof the people, bytJus
been sbesdy granted in its utmost esctent,
for in end of no greater irnqportanoe than
thepPHervationofthe.<game4 thisfonhid*
able SQtherity has been dready trusted lo
ibe msgistrate, and the nation has been
alntdy subjected to this insupportable
ny, only lest the hares and partridges
be destnnred, and gentlemen be
obligsd to disband their hounds, and dia-
Bw their settmg-doga.
Yet, Sir, even with regard to thispow«%
^m exocfoitoit, and thus lighll v granted,
I bare heard ao general complaints, nor
beiiere that i^ looked upon as a grievance
by lay^but those whom it reslrauis f rom
living upiDO the game, aod^ condemns to
nniBtam themselves by a more honest and
usefiil industry.
I hope, %, tMase dttt Ihihk diis lewfor
tbe mscrvation. of their amusement ra-
tiena snd just, will have at least the same
ngird to the de^Mice of their couatij,
t^ wifl net dunk their ▼emson deserves
ratter soUdtode, than their fortunes and
ibeir liberties.
Nor is it di&uk. Sir, to produce la-
daaces of the exercise of this power for
^ end which is now proposed, without
yF^coBsoqucaces that should discourage
Ihave
the
powered to leiar aR the sailon within the
pounds of 4heir jinrisdictlon, which order
was execute^ without any outcries of op<-
preasion, onq^tprehensions-of the approach
of slavery; ' -
That this law, Sir, will be idways ex»*
cuted with the strictest impiyrtiality, and
without the lesat resard to any private
pkurnoses, cannot indeed bo demonstra^
tively proved; every law ma](r possibly bo
abused by a 'Combination' of profligates,
but it must, I think, be granted, that it is
drawn up with all the caution that reason^
or justice, or the corruption of the present
age requires, I know not what can bo
contrived better than an association d
men unlikely to concur in their views and
interests, ■ A justice of the peace, a lieute-
nant of a ship, and a commissioner of the
navT, three mel» probably unknown to
each other, and of which no one will be at
aU solicitous to desire the rest to unite, to
commit a crime, to which no ueafUddoa
can be readily in;agined.
This cautk>n; Sir, which cannot but be
approved, and .which surely is some proof
of judgment, and consideration, ought, in
my 'Opinion,' to have exempted the Bill,
and those by whose assistance it^ was
drawn up, from the reproachful and inde-
cent charge of absurdity, ignorance, and
incapacity; terms which me dignity of
this assembly does aot admit, even whea
they are inconteslibly just, and which
surely oupht not to be made use of when
the question is of a doubtful nature.
S'he gentlemen^ Sir, who are now en-
trusted with public employments, have
neves yet discovered that they are inferior
to their predecessors in knowledge or in-
tegrity, nor do their characters suffer any
diminution by a comparison with those
who vilify and traduce them.
Those, Sir« that treat others with such
Uoentmus contempt, «ught surely to |[ive
some illustrious proof of <heir own dbiliues;
and yet, if we examine what has been
produced on this question, we^shall find no
reason to admine iheir owgacily, or their
knowledge.
We have been told. Sir, that the fleet
mij^ properly be manned by a detach-
ment from the army, but it. has not beea
proved that we have any superfluous
forces in the kingdom, nor, indeed, will
our army be found sufficientir numerous^
i£t by neglecting toequip our fleet, we give
our enemies an opportunity .of entering
our country.
'If it be enigaired what necessity there is
9TI
UGEORGBtL JkUOt m Ot Commam milk
[»
fiHrourpvetentfoPcctf what dkpediliMMi
«re designed ? or what dangeisace fieHred?
I shall not think it mv du^ to return any
anmrer. It fe, Sir, the great unhappinesa
of cnr constitution, that our determina*
tiona cannot be kept secret, and that our
enemies may always form conjectures of
ear designs^Dy knowing oar preparations ;
but surely more is not to be published
than necessi^ extorts, and the government
. has a ri^ht to coticeal what it would injure
the nation to discover.
Nor can I, Sir, approre the method of
levying sailors by the incitement of an ex-
orbitant reward, a rewaird to be augment-
ed at the pleasure of those who are to re«
ceive it For what can be the conseqoeiiott
of such prodigality, but that those, to
whom the largest sum is offered, will yet
refuse their service in expectation of a
greater? The reward already proposed
M, in my opinion, the utmost stretch of
liberality ; and all beyond may be censured
as profusion* ^
It is not to be imagined. Sir, that all
these objections were not made, and an*
awered, in the reign of the late queen,
when a Bill of the same nature was pro-
posed ; th^ are answered at least by the
necessi^ of those times, which necessity
lias now returned upon us.
We do not find that it produced any con-
sequences so formidable and destructive,
that they should fbr ever discourage us
from attempting to raise. forces by the
same means ; it was then readily enacted,
and executed without opposition, and
widiout complaints ; nor do I believe that
anj measures can be proposed of equal
efticacy, and less severity;
Mr. Sandifs s
Sir; whether ihe precedents produced
in defence of this Bfll, will have more
weight than the arj^uments, must be Bhe#n
by a caieiiil exannnatioH, which will per-
haps discover that the order sent to the
magistrates of Bristol conyeyed no new
power, nor such as is, in any respect, pa-
raDel to that which this Bill is intended to
<Sinfer.
They were only enjoined to enquire
with more than usu^ strictness, after
strollers and Tagabondsi snch as the law
has always subjected to punishment, and
aend them to the fleet, instead of any other
place of correction; a method which may
BOW be pursued without danger, opposi-
tion, or compbunt.
But for my part, I am not aUei upon the
flgstjit jjttentifn 'tft tl^e pseaent aosneoC
affiursyto find out the nueaasity of extraor*
dinarymethodaofaoykind.' ThefinisoC
an invasion firom Fiaoee, are, in my opi«
nion. Sir, merely chimerical; from their
fleet in America the coaats of Englsnd
have nothing to fear, and after the numer-
ous levies of seamen bv which it was fitted
hia% it is not yet probable that they can
HMedilysenfl out another. We know, Sir,
tnat the number of seamen depends upon
the extei^ of oeeoBaeroe, andsusely there
is as yet no such disproportiQii between
their trade and oitts, as that thrjr should be
able tp fiimish out a naval armament with
much greater expedition than ounefares.
In America, dor forces are at least eousi
to theirs, so that it is not very nrobable,
that, after the total deatrudioB or our fleet
by them, they should be so little injured,
as to be able unmedialely to set sail for
the channd, and insult us in our own
ports; to efiect this. Sir, they must not
only conquer us, but conquer us without
resistance* .
If they do not interrupt us in our at-
tempts, nor expose themselTea to an en-
gagement, they may indeed return without
si&ring great damages, but I know not
how they can leave the ahorea^if America
unobserved, or pour an unexpected inva-
sion upon us. If they continue diere, Sir,
they cannot hurt us; and when they re-
turn, we may prepare for their neceptiaii.
There fate men I know. Sir, who have
reason to think hi^iiy of the French po-
licy, and whose ideas may be exalted to a
belief that they can perform impossibilities ;
but I have not yet prevailed upon myself
to conceive that they can not invisibly, or
that they can equq^ a fleet by soreeiy,
collect an aimy in a moment, and de^
us on our own coast, without any percep-
tible preparations.
Sfar Charles Wageti :
Sir; the oahmities produced hw disciird
and contention neednottobepomtedout,
but it may be Moper to reflect upon the
consequences ^ a House divided agrisst
itself, that we may endeaipoulr to avoid
them.
Unanimity is produced by nolliingiiKyre
powerful than by impeiiding danger, sod |
therefore it may be us^ to shew those
who seem at present in|>rofirand secoritjt
that the power of Franqe as more fimnidB^
ble than they are wiUhig toallow.
My age, Su*, enables me to remember
many liaBaactaooaof tbewar iathebto
tB\ MmimlhCmmmiutaeSiamtiu^Ba. A. D. 1741.
t9ft
luaogm, or of which umy hanrt only bn*
pcffect xbn iTOiii hstow &nd tfBoitioti*
In tbe ftid voir of tho m^ of king
^HUn, the French gaiaed « ^ctory over
tbe iiDJtad fleeti of the maritime oowers,
which gifetheodyfer the lummer ralowing,
tbe dominion of the dumnel, enabled them
to sbat im our merchants in their ports,
ud prodbood a total siispension^ oif our
Tboie, Sir, to whom the importance
of tnde hio weD known, wiU ^easily ap*
prdMod liie weight of this cakasity, and
wi]l,Ihope,rBJectno measures that have
s mate tendency to prevent it.
On Mfif Sir, ^o not lie useless he-
case then ii any want of seamen in the
BatisD, but because any service is pfeGsrred
tothitflfthepabl|c
Thweamaow to my knowledge in one
1090 00 tbd west coast, no fewer tfaanr
IfiODnkn^ of which surelva third part
Bu J be joMiy claimed by the piibKc in**
terest; mr do I know wWy diey who ob-
fitiuteij refitte to serve their country,
ikwid be trmied with so much tender-
ses. It is more reasenaUe that they
dflsid isfcby thMr refusal, than thai the
goml btppinem should be endangered.
k with honesty an^ <Bligence; hot will
Mrerbe saade the iaetrament of oppres-
Mf ow execoSe amy commission or ty-
"MyorinjuBlico.
As iberabre the power of sesidiing is
to be phoed in the hands of justices of the
faoe,Idiinkitnecessarv to declare that
I vil never perform bo hateful a part of
^oice, sad that, if this KU becomes a
Bv, I win retire fiwm Ae place to which
■ytotherity is limited, rattier than cbn-
(^ to the uisetiea of my feUow-
Vf.LytieUon:
Sr; sD theai^gaments mhiA have been
*Cn«d b siqpport of this Bill, are reduced
« ha to one constant assenion of the
*»adhr of passing it.
We have been told. Sir, with great
^^^caesB, tfuit a war cannot be carried on
vjdieiit men, and that diips are useless
*'^wt saflors; end from thenoe it is in-
md tiiatthe Bill is neceosary.
^ bioes an, by some moaas, neces-
sary to be raised, the wannest oi^ponenta
of the Bill will not deny ; but they cannot
dierefore allow the mfereace, that Ihei
methods now proposed are necessary.
They are ot opmton. Sir, that cruel and
oppressive measures can never be justified^
tiU all others have been tried without ef-*
feet ; they think that the law, when it was
formerly past, was uniost, and are con-
vinced, by observing that it never was re^
vived, that it wtfs by experience discovered
to be useless.
Necessity, absolute necesnt^, is a fiir-
midable sound, and may terrify the weak^
and timorous into silence and compliance ;
but it will be found, upon reflection, to bo
often noUiing but an idle fefint, to aflsuso
and to delude us; and that what is repre*
sented as necessaiy to the*public, is only
something convenient to men in power.
Necessity, Sir, has heretofore been pro-
duced as a plea for that which could be
no otherwise defended. In the days of
Charies 1, Ship-money was declared to be
legal, because it was necessary. Such was
the reasoning of the lawyers, and the de-
termination of the jucws ; but the par-
liament, a parliament of patriots ! without
fear, and without corruption, and in-,
flneneed only bv a sincere regard for the
public, were ot a different opinion, and
neither admitted the lawfulness nor ncr
cessity. * ' . -
It will becmne us on this occaaon to act
with equal vigour, and convmoe our coun*
tinmen, that we procieed upon the same
principles, and that the liberties of the
people are our chief care.
I hope we shall unite in defeating any
attempts that may impair the rights which
esvery Briton boasts as his birUi-ridit, and
reject a law which will be e<]uaUy dr^ded*
and detested with the Inquisition of Spam.
Sir William Yonge :
Sir; though many particular dauses of
this Bin liave been doapproved and op-
posed, some with more, and some with less
reason, yet tiie committee has hitherto
agreed that a bill for this purpose is ne*
cessary in the present state of our .affiurs ;
upon this principle we have proceeded thus
far, several gentlemen have proposed their
opinions, contributed their observations,
and laboured as in an affiiir universally ad-,
raitted to be of highimportance to the ge-
neral prosperity.
ButBow, Sir, when some of the difficulties'
are surmounted, some expedients tudd^
struck out, some objections reawffd^ aacL
14 GEORGE IL Deiai^ ^ the i!&mmdm m ike Sdarnen^ jlic i|
it isy indeed, not: iippoiidfe, fib, tbf
might eSBjprms mjrself obtcumlr, ^^
may be therefore neeeaKury lo dedaie m
I iatendledi ho diereqpectful teh^^ 4
the conduct ofliis majesty, but I taoA^
serve at the saa^ time, that obscoreor k
accuiUe expresMODB ou^t alwa^ to I
interpreted in the moBt inoAaaive tQe«
ing, and that to be too laffaciausindiioi
redxig conoealed infiinuatioosy-is wa^
proorof superior integrity. ,
Wisdom; Sir; is aeldom-captitMu, sad h
nesty seldom suqHcious: a msh tiafdU
of comprehending the whole extent rfi
quesUoD, disdains to divert his attentioal
trifling observations ; and he tluit m idiei
the practice of little arts, or themotia»i|
petty malice, does not easily imagine the
mddent to another. 4
That in the question of
'«13
^be gf^at design brought nearer to execu*
^on, we are on a stiddenlnfornied, that aU
our hbeur-is superfluous, that we are
amusing ourselves with useless coosulta*
tions, providing against calamities that can
never happen, and Fai8in| bulwarks with,
out ah enemy,' that thererore the -question
before us is of no importaode, and the bill
ought, without fkrther examination, to be
to^ly rejectedi
I suppose, Sir, J shall be readily be*
lieved, when I^eclare that I shall willmgly
admit any arguments that may evince our
safety; but in proportion as' real freedom
from danger is to be desired, a supine and
indolent neglect of it ts to be dreaded and«
avoided ; and I cannot but fear that our
enemies are more formidable, and more
roalicfdus, than the gentlemen that oppose
this Bill have represented them.
This Bill can only be opposed upon the
supposition that it gives a sanction to se-
venties mote rigorous than our present
eircumstances require ; for nothing can be
more fallacious or invidious than a con^
parison of this law with the demand of
8hip*money, a demand contrary to all law,
ana enforced by the manifest exertion of
arbitrary power.
How has the conduct of his present ma-
jesty any resemblance with that of Charles
l.f Is.atiy money levied hj order of the
council ? Are the determmations of the
judges set in opposition to acts of parlia-
meat'? Is Any roan injured in his property
b^ an unlimited extension of the preroga-
tive ? Or any tribunal established superior
to the laws of the nation i
To draw parallels, Sir, where there is
no resemblance, and to accuse by insinua-
tions where thfere is no shadow of a crime;
to raise outcries when no injury is at*
tempted, and to deny a real necessity, be-
cause it was once pretended for a bad pur-
pose, is surely not to advance the public
service, whicn can only be promoted by
just reasonings, and calm reflections, not
by sophistry and satire, by insinuations
without ground, and by instances beside
the purpose. *
Mr. L^ielion;
' Sir ; true zeal for the service of the
public is never discovered by collunve
subterfuges and malicious representations;
a mind attentive to the common good^
wotdd hardly, on an occasion like this, have,
been at leisure to pervert an hfurmless il-
lustration, and extract diaaffiection from a
easual remark.
m ttie question
necesfidty was pretended, cannot be |i
nied; and therefore all that lasKtjtri
which was only that t^ie natioti had lM|
once terrified withoi:^ reason, by the €^
midable sound of necessity, is evident aa
uncontested. >^
When a firaud has once been practiiaj
it is of use to remember it, that we n^
not twice be deceived by the samesrtifiel
and therefore I me&ti<med Uie pka tH a(
cessity, that it may be enquired whether!
is now more true than betore.
That the pariiament. Sir, and not 4
judges, is now applied to, is no proofs
the. validity of toe aiguments which liai
been produced; for hi the day8ofSli||
money, the consent of the parhaneDth^
been asked had there been any prospai
of obtaining it; but the court mul b«|
oonviacad, by frequent experimeots,,^
the inflexibility of the parliament, and l|
flfuured of influencing them by proapss
of advantage, or intimidating them 1
frowns or menaces. f
May this and every future pailianNi
imitate their conduct, and, like them, di
tinguisb between real' and pretended ly
cessity ; and let not us be terrified by if
clamours into the establishment of a Is
at once useless and oppressive !
Sir William Yonge:
Sir; that I did not intend to misxcpn
sent the meaning of the hon« centlem«A|
hope it is not necessery to declare; m
that I have in reality been gutlQr of 8|
misrepresentation, I am not yet conyhie^
If he did not intend a pursJlel betva
Ship*money and the present Bill, to vdi
purpose was his observation ^apd if bed
MtkMttkCmrnmumtheBnmaufBa. ' A. P. I?41.
19*
jtyimi it Mt proper to Aem there I
10 jcicmhlnnfrj and that all which
be infefied firom it wa» therefore
_ and iaooodittive ?
do loolf diifer, Sir^ m OfaoioD with
a flentfeman with relation to his
of mea8uree» which have no-
with each other; but I
todeclaroy that he is not more
hb citati«ms from history*
^ d not apply to the ludgea, be-
lAe priisnieiit would^Mt have oant-
' itkaMmey that he deoMmdedy but
i )m chief ambition was to govern
kthe i^erogative abne, and to
Eiad hjs defendants firom par*
reaquines.
m account. Sir, is just, I am con-
tthe histories of those times wiU dis-
; asd therefore any invidious com*
s.hct»een that paxliament and any
^hYJlhoot foundation in reason or
( that this law will easily admit, in
' o of ity such abuses as will
the benefits, may readily be
1; and it will pot be consistent with
{wd to the ptibUc^ expected from
MIS whom we represent, to enact'
kidi may probably beoome an in*
iofsppreasion*
^Mnaat, by whom I am joow attend*
[be iemed, according to the de*
' lof the vindicators rfthis Bill,
J man, having been once in the-
lUm; and he may therefore be
Ifevn my service, and dragged itiU>
pkf the aathority oi a justice of the
I of some abandoned prosti-
___ wkh a commission only to
sdectioiis, iind awe those wnom
I and riot acts cannot *subdue«
I Sii^ not improper to declare,
nhU by force oppose the execu*
[a kv like this; that 1 would bar
' land defend them; that I would
[aeigMMKirs to my assistance; and
ion who should attempt to opter,
; my consent, as thievesi rumansy
ifbge:
k 18 wen known that by the laws
Htian poverty is in some degree
1 ss a crime, and that the i^tor
': this .advantage over< the felon,
ISMtJia pumoM antq his dwell-
^>s forced fiomd^ shelter of his
• Itfaiilk it Is univetsaOv agreed, that the
condition of a man in dwt, is already suffi-
ciently miserable, and that it womd be
more worthy of the lepslative powe> to^
contrive idlevialions of his hardships, than
additions to them ; and it seems ther^fop^
no inconsiderable objection to this BiU,
that by conferring the power of entering*
houses by force, it may give the harj^es oF
the law an opi>ortunity of entering, m the
tumult of an impress^ and of dragging ar
debtor to a noisome prison, under pretence*
of forcing sailors into the service of the
crown*
Mr. Tracy :
Sir; that some law for the ends pro*
posed by the Bill before us is necessary, I
do not see how we can doubt, after Ihe
dechirations c^tbe admirals, who are fully^
acquainted with the service for which pro*'
vision is to be made^ and of the ministry,'
whoee knowledge of the present state <i
our own stren^h, and the designs of our
enemies, is doubtless more exact than thcnr .
can acquiie who are not engaged in public
empkmnents.
If, therefore, the measures now proposed
are neceasaiy, though they may not be
agreeable to the present dispositions' of
the people, for wnose preservation they
are intended, I shall think it my duty, to
concur in them, that the pnbhc service-
may not be retarded, nor the ssifety of ».
whole nation hazarded, by a scrupulous,
attention to minute objections. -
Mr. Campbell:
Sir ; I have often amidst my eulogies on'
British liberty, and iiuy declarations of the*
excellence of our constitution, the impar-'
tiality of our government, and the efficacy
of our laws, been repooached.by foreiniers
with the nractiee qf impresses, as an ^aid*
ship whien would raise a rebellion in abso-
lute monarchies, and.kimUe those nations
intomadness, thathave for manvages Imown'
no other law than the will of. their printes*
A hardship which includes imnrisoiiment
and slavery, and to which thermre no ag*
gravations. ought to be added*
But if justice and reason, Sir, are to be
overborne by necessitv;. if necessity is to
stop -our ears agamst the cpmplaints of the
oppressed, and harden our. hearts at tha.
sight of their misery, lei it at. least not
d»itroy our memoriest nor deprive, us of
the advantages of experience;
• liCt us enquire». Sir, what were the ef«
fecu of this hateful attthority when it was
U GEORGE II.
853
fbnneiff consigned to die magistrates.
Were our fleeto manned in an instant?
Were our harbours immediately crowded
with sailors? Did we surprize our ene»
mieB by our expeditioD, iod make con-
quests before an invasion could be sus-
pected? I have he^y Sir, of no such
consequences,nor pf any advantages which
deserved to be purchased by tyranny and
oppression. We have found that very few
were procured by the magistrates, and the
char^ of seizing and conveying was very
oposiderabley ahd therefore cannot but
conclude, that illegal measures^ which have
•been once tried without success, should,
for a double reason, never be revived.
Sir John Barnard :
Sir; it is not without regret that I rise
so often on this occanon ; for to dispute
with lliose whose determinations are not
influenced by reason, is a ridiculous task, a
ttvesome labour without prospect of reward.
Btii as an hon. ffentleman has lately
remarked, that by denying the necessity
of the^ ]^l, inslsad of nuking objections
to particular clauses, the whMe design of
finaing expedients to supply the sea-service
is at once defeated: I think it necessary
to remind him» that I have made many
objections to this Bill, and supported th^n
by reasons, which have not yet been an-
awered. But I shall now no longer confine
my.remaiks to single errors, but observe
that there is one g^eral defect, by whic^
the whole Bill is mad6 absurd and useless.
For the foundation of a law like this,
Sir, the description of a seaman ought to
be thus accurately laid down, itought to be
dedared what acts shall subject him to
that denomination, and by what means,
after having once enlisted himself in this
unhappy cbss of men, he may withdraw
inAo « more secure and hapfj state of life.
Is a man, who has once only lost sight of
tlie.shore, to be hunted as a seaman? Isa
man who by traffic has enriched afamfly,
to. be forced ft«m his possesaifHw by the
authority of an impress? Ib a man, who
jbaii purchased an estate, and built a seat,
to solicit the admiralty for a protection
firom the netghboarin^ constable ? Such
questions as these, Sir, mav be asked,
which the Bill before us wiii enable no
man to answer.
If a Bill for tins piirnose be truly neces-
sary, let it a;t least be need from such of*
fensive absurdities ; let it be drawn up in
a torm as different as is posuble from thaT
of tha Bill bf^ore us^ and at last I am ftr
DebaUmiktC<mMonidn0ieSiKmen^ BSL \
ftom imiijgiiiing llwl alaw wilbe contsH
ikdit injurious to individuals, ndrdetrbwii
to the pabHc; not contrary to ^ il
principles of our eetab^hment, snd i
loadea with f(%and absurdities.
Mr. Tiner:
Sir; a definition of a seaman is so
cessary in a Bill for this purpose, dnt
omission of it will defeat lA the nedi
that can be suggested^ How dia& «!
be executed, or a penally inflicted, ivi
the magistrate has no certam matks nM
he mav distinguish a criminal? Andirl
even the man< that is xnrosecuted msjr'
be conscious of ^ilt, or know tint
law extended to him, nii^h he is dmj
wMi having offended.
If, in denning a seaman on tie prei
occasion, it be thoueht proper to bavet
regard to the example of our predeceH
whose wisdom has in iJiis debate beei
much magnified ; it may be observed \
aseaman&B been formeiiy defined, <s^
who haunts the seas ;' a defimtion vl
seems to imply habit and contiousa
and not to comprehend a man whs"!
periiaps never gone more than a M
▼oy^. i
But Hhoiq^h this definition. Sir, im
be added to the amendments already f
posed, and the Bill thereby be braq
somewhat nearer to the conttitntii
principles of our eovemment ; I ctt
vet think it so inudi reedfied, as tkf
hardships will not out-weigh tiie bsMJ
and therefore shall'Continiie to offend
Bill, though to some particular daqi
have no objection.
The term < Sea-&ring man,' was {
left out, and the several AmeodsK
were admitted m the committee.
Mareh 10. The House ttain res^
into a committee on the said Bfll, whci
Chailes Wager offered a clause h^i^
it was to be enacted, << Thatnomerdia
or bodies corporate, or politic, shsOl
sailors at higher wvges than 35^. for
month* on pain of forfeiting the tn
vafaie of the simi so agreed for ; whidi'
was fD commence after 15 days, vAi
tinue for a time to be agreed on fcj«
House.*' And thenspoke to the foDoii
purpose: *
^ Sit ChfirU$ Wager:
« S»; fiio* necessity of this claitfe V
be so. nipavent^tp every geat]8iaair|
fqaiatea-with nmijd ai^«ommer<aald
W]' -B^MA^mAeCkmfim^^m the S^a^t^mit* Btll. ' A. D. 1741.
CSS
that i» D# bp|iotitien eao be affprehendedy
mfeir aigumoiU will be requisite to in-
troduceitt
Rom much the public calamities of war
are improfed by the failors to jtheir own
private adTSDta^ how generally they shun
the poblic seryioe, in hopes of ^eoeiying
exorbitant wages from the merchants^ and
hov much they extort from.the merchants,
hjf threatening to leave their service for
that of the crown, is universally known by
efeiy officer of the navy, and eveiy com-
mauder tf a trading-veaseL
. A law therefore. Sir, to restrain them in
time of war from such exorbitant de-
maixis, to deprive them of those prospects
wJikh hare often no other effect but to lull
them in itUeness, while they skulk i^out
in expectation of higher wages, and to
bbder then from driving themselves,
embanasaiog the merchants, and neglect-
ing the geoml interest of their country, is
muiouhtedly just. It is just, Sir, because,
io regard to the public, it is necessary to
preveot the greatest calamity that can fall
opn a peo{rfe; to preserve us from re-
cmiag lavs from the most implacable of
oar eneoues; and it is just because, with
respect to particular men, it has no ten-
mcj but to suppress idleness, fraud, and
extortioQ.
^f r. Henr^ Fox :
Sir; I have no objection to any part of
^ clauae, except the dav proposed for
the comipenoement ; to make a law against
toy peniicious practice, to which there are
ftroQg temptationsy and to give those whose
interest may incite them to it, time to
e&ct their schemes, before the law shall
begin to op^e, seems not very consistent
with their wisdom or vigilance.
his not denied. Sir, that the merchants
«e betrayed, by that re^rd to private in-
terest vhich prevails too frequently over
nobler viewB, to bribe away from the ser-
•wof the crown, by large rewards, those
aflon whose assistanoe isnow sp necessary
to the public; and therefore it is not to be
nagioed that they wiU not emjalpy iheir
ntinost diligence to improve«the interval
vbich the B31 allof s in,«aaking fontraels
Arlheensiimg'year, and that t|}e saifors
** wt e8gerl^.enga||e»^thfianselves't before
ttoJawshsn preclude thei^ ptaipecttf<)f
As thenfot^ to di^e no'iaw, mi f»
■tte a Jaw that win not Iji^ft^^^.is^
BcanaAii||icse ^e tUfi^j^BJs the -6%
^th^ datte ad 4t aoV atAp.4%
nifi^ make the whole provision ineffectual,
it IS my opinion that either it ought to
begin to operate to-morrow, or tbtt we
ought to leave. the whole affiur in its pre-
sent state.
Sir Robert Walpole :
Sir; nothing has a greater appearance
of injustice, than to punish men by virtue
of laws with wliich they were not acquaint*
ed ; the law ther^ore is always supposed
to be known bjr those who have onended
it; because it is, the duty of every man to
knpw it, and certainly it ought to be the
care of the legblature, tbat tliose whom
the law will affect, may have a possibility
of knowine it, and that those may not b^
punished tor fiuling in their duQr, whom
nothing but inevitable ignorance has be*
trayed into ofence.
fiut if the operatioa of this law should
commence to-morrow, what numbers may
break it, and suffer by the breach of it in*
volontaril)r, and without design ; and how
shall we vindicate ourselves from having
been accessary to the crime which we cen-
sure and punish i
Mr. Henry Fox : .
Sir ; I shall not lurge in defence of my
motion what is generally known, and
has been frequently inculcated in all de*
bates upon this bill, that private con-
siderations ought always to give way to
the necessities of the public ; for I think
it sufficient to observe, that tliere is a dis-
tinction to be made between punishment
and restraints, and that we never can be
too early in the prevention of pernicious
practices, though we may sometunes delay
t;o punish them.
The law will be known to-morrow to far
the greatest number of those who may be
tempted to defeat it, and if there be
others that break it ignorantly, how will
they find themselves injured by being
only obliged to pay less than toey pro-
mised, which is a& that I should propose
without looser warning, TKe debate upon
this particular will be at length reduced
to a <juestion, Wliether a law for this pur-
pose IS just and expedient ? If a law be
necessary, it is necessary that it should be
execiitedy'^Bd itx:an be executed only by
coftuuencihg to-morrgw.
►. 'Lorfl Baltimore :
. Sir; it ^appears to me of no great im-
p<^rtance hew soon the operation of the
l^w fiomMnces, or how long it is delayed.
99] 14 6EOROE IL
because I Beenoreasenfor
it win at any time produce the eSects pro-
posed by it.
It has been the amusemmt, Sir, of the.
greatest part of my life, to ocmvene with
'men whose incUnations or emplqymentg
have made them well acauamtea with ma^
ritime. affiurs,^ and amidst innmnerable
other schemes for the promotion of trade,
have heard some for the regidation c^
wages in trading ships, schemes at the
first appearance plausible and likely to
succeed, but upon a nearer enquiry evi-
dently entanglcKi with insupportable diffi-
culties, and never to be executed without
danger of injuring the commerce of the
nation.
The clause, Sir, now before us contains
m my opinion one of those visionary pro-
visions, which however infallible they may
appear, will be easily defeated, andwiU
' have no other effect tiian to promote cun-
ning and fraud, and to teach mop those acts
of collusion with whid^ they would other-
wise never have been aoquamled.
Mr. Lochoood :
Sir; I aeree with the hon. eentleman
by whom &is clause has been o&red, that
the end for which it is proposed, is worthy
the closest attention of the legislative
power, and that the evils, of which the
prevention is now endeavoured, may in
some measure not only ob8tru<5t our traffic,
but endanger our country ; and shall
therefore very readily concur in any mea-
sure for this purpose, that shall not appear
either unjust cnrmeflfectual.
Whether this clause will be sufficient to
restrain all elusive contracts, and whether
all the little artifices of interest are suffi-
ciently obviated, I am yet unable to de-
termine; but by a reflection upon the
multiplicity of relations to be considered,
and the variety of circumstances to be ad-
justed, in a provision of this kind, I am in-
clined to think that it is not the business
of a transient enquiry, or of a single clause,
but that it will demand a separate law, and
cng^c the deliberation and regard of this
whole assembly.
Sir John Barnard :
Sir; notwithstanding^* the mipotii^ce
and resentment with which seme men*see'
tfieir mistakes and ignoranft^ detoct^l^
IMaUmiheC<nmmm^ihe8mmeiu^BilL [100
notwithstanding the reverence which aeg- IkgAift paiticufar clauses, not against
ligence and haste ar^said to be 'entitled ^iagcir'oiiQittaBGes, but against die ^1
to from this assembly, I shall declare .once 9ill ; a ^ill an^^and apffreiilive,
more, without the apprd^nsioiitof.beingj aiid^diculOus ; affiU to**harrflS9 the in*
• ■ • • •
confuted, diat diis Bill #as drawn up with-
out ODnsideratioo,and is defended wiikout
being understood ; that after all the
amendments which have been adiaitted,
and an the additions proposed, it will be
oppremre and ineiectual, a chaos of ab-
sttrditieSy and a monument of ignorance.
Sir Robert WtdpaU:
Sir; the present busuness of this asseoh
bly is to examine the clause before us;
but 'to deviate firom so necessary an eo*
quiiT into loud exdamatiima against the
whole Bill, is to <ril)Struct the course of the
debate, to perplex our attention, and in-
terrupt the panianient in its delflMration
upon questions, in the determinetioD of
wnich the security of Uie public is nearly
concerned.
The war. Sir, in iHiich we are now en-
gaged, and, I may add, engaged by the
general request of the whole natioa, c8d
be prosecuted only by the 'assistance of
the seamen, from whom it is not expected
that they will sacrifice their immediate ad-
vantage to the security of their country.
Public spirit, where it is to be found, is
the result of reflection, refined by study
and exalted by education, and is not to
be hoped for amoil|r those whom low for-
tunehas condemned to perpetual drodgeij.
It must be therefore necessary to sunply
the defect of education, and to produce
by salutary coercions i^ose eflects which
it is in vain to expect from other causes, i
That the service of the sailors will be
set up to sale by auction, and that the
merchants will bid i^iainst the government,
is incontestable ; nor is there any doubt
that they will be able to ofler the highest
price, because they will take care to repay
themselves by raising the value of their
goods. Thus, without some restraint upon
the merchants, our enemies, who are not
debarred by their form of government
from any method wUldi policy can bvent,
or absolute power put in execution, will
preclude all our designs, and set at defi-
ance a nation superior to themselves.
Sit Jdkn Barnard : j
Sir; Ithink^myseif obliged, by my
duty t9 my country, a^d by toy g^ritude
to iboie by whhse industryjre are enridiett
an^ by wbosto courage 'we ar6 defendedr
to mfli^ oi^cb niore a declaration,
not
sin-!
flxe wb*
101] DOaieimthe Cpmmans m the Sfamewf Bill A. Hi 1741.
\y»
dottrioiis and distreis the honest, to puz-
zle the wiM aad add power to the cruel ;
a Billy which caaiiot be read without asto-
Dishnent, oor passed without the yiolation
of our ctostitutioti, and an equal disregard
of {wliqr sod humanity.
All these assertions . will need to be
profed only bv a bare perusal <^ this hate-
ful Billy bj which the meanest, the most
vofthieas reptile, eaudted to a jietty office
by serring a wretch only superior to him
in fortune, is enabled to flush his authority
by tjimuzing over thoae who every hour
deserve the pid>lic acknowledgments of
the oofflouni^; to Intrude upon the re-
tieiti of bnwe asen, firtigued aad exhaust-
ed by honest industry, to drag them out
with all die wantonaess of groveling autho-
rity, and cham them ^ the oar without a
momeot's reqate, or perhaps oblige them
to jNiidttte, with the gains of a dangerous
^<7V» or the plunder of an enemy lately
coaqomd, a abort interval to seltfe their
aibin, or bid their children &rewelL
Let say cendaDBan in thb House, let
tbofie, Sir, who nov sit at ease, projectiog
hvi of oppression and conferring upon
their ova danrea such licentious aatno-
ntyi pause a few moments, and imaaine
t^^eoKlvcs eapoaed to the same hardships
^y s power aiq»erior to their own; let
then oonocive thonselves torn from the
teaderMM and caresses of their fiumlies
by midni^ irruptions, dragged in
|noio|li thioi^h the streets by a despica-
ble officer, and plaoed under the command
ofthoieby whom they have perhaps been
t^f insulted^ Why should we ima-
giae that the race of men for whom these
JT^vUes are preparing, have lesssensibi-
htj thsn ooraalves? Why should we be-
iieve that tW will suffer without com-
WtfSad be injured without resentment?
Why ahoidd we conceive that they will
^IIBtat eaoe ddiTer themselves, and punish
"w oppresBoif, by deserting that couh-
by where they are considered as felons,
^^^^qrioff hola on those rewards and pri-
^1^^ imich no other goaemment will
de^them?
^ is indeed the only tendency, what-
onerBiay have been the intention, of the
^ bebie as ; for I know not whether
Oe nunt rpfinipd saiacity >can dbeover any
wr mstboi of webutaging naviflEOion
«tt diese which ara dmwn |<lgiHher i^
^Bi]lbe6i«t«a» ' We first^ve our con-
f^^ saMAoriiy io huft tHe failoft
vette^ftaad dn^a th^pi by incessant
P>^oiit of Ifaa Mtidn; but, kst'any
man should, by friend^p, good fortune,
or the power otmoney, find means of stay-
ing behind, we have, with equal jviadom,
condemned him to poverty ^nd misery ;
and, lest the natural courage of his
profession should incite him to assist
his country in the war, have contrived
a method of predudina him from any
advantage that he inight oaye the weakness
to hope from his fortitude and diligence.
What more can be. done, unless we at
once prohibit to seamen the use of the
common elements, or doom them to a ge*
neral j^roscription.
It IS jus^ Sir, that adyantase should
be proportioned to the hazard ny which
it is to be obtained, and therefore a sai-
lor has an honest claim to an advance
of wages in time of war ; it is necessary
to excite expectation* and to fire ambi-
tion by the prospect of ^eat acquisitiona;
and by this nrosnect it is that such num^
bera are dauy ailured to naval business,
and that our privateers are filled with
adventurers. The large wages which war
poakes necessary, are more powerful incen-
tives to those whom impatience of poverty
determmes to change their state of life,
than the secure gams of peaceful com-
merce; for the danger is over- looked by ii
mind intent upon the profit.
War is the .harvest of a sailor, in which
he is to store proviaions for the winter of
old age; and if w6 blast this hope, he will
inevltablysinkintoindolenceandcowardice.
Many of the sailors are bred up to
trades, or capable of any laborioua em-
ployment upon land; nor is there atiy
reason for which they expose themselves
to the dangers of a seaftrmg life, but the
hope of sudden wealth, and some lucky
season in which they may improve the&r
fortunes by a single effort* Is it reason-
able to believe that aU these will not rather
have recourse to their former callings,
and live in security^ though not in plenty,
than encounter oapger and poverty at
once, and face an enemy without any
prospect of recompence ?
Let any man recollect the ideas that
arose in his mind upon hearing of a Bill
for encouraging and increasing sailors,
and examine whether he had any expect-
ation.of expedients like these? I suppose,'
it was never known before, that men were
to be encouraged by subjecting them^ to
pecu]jar penalties, or that to take away
the gain* of a profesion, was a method of
recommendiE^ it more generally to the
people^
lOS]
H GEORGE IL DOtie in the Cmmm o« Me Seammuf JKR. [I0|
But it 18 hot of v«y great importance
to dwell longer upon the impropriety of
this clause^ which there is no possibility of
putting in execution* That the merchants
will tiy every method of eluding a law so
prejudicial to their interest, may be easily
imagined ; and a mind not very fruitful oif
evasions will discover that this law may be
eluded by a thousakid artifices. K the
merchants are restrained from allowing
men their wages beyond a certain sum, they
^ will make contracts for the voyage, of
which the time may very easily be com-
puted ; they may ofer a reward for
expedition and fidelity; they maypav a
large sum by way of advance; dbey
may allow the sailors part of the profits,
or may offer mone^ oy a third hand.
To fix the price or any commodity, of
which the quantity and uie use stay vary
their proportions, is the most excessive
degree of ignorance* No man can deter-
mine the price of com, unless he can re-
gulate the harvest, and keep *the number
,of the people for ever at a stand.
But^ let us suppose these methods as
efitcacious as their most sanguine vindica-
tors are desirous of representing, it does
not yet appear that they are necessary ;
and to inflict hardships without necessity is
by lio means the practice of either wisdom
or benevolence. To tyrannize and compel,
is the low pleasure of petty capacities, of
narrow minds, swelled with the pride of
uncontroulable authority, the wantonness
of wretches who are insensible of the conse-
quences of their own actions, and of whom
candour may perhaps determine, that thev
are only cruel because they are stupifi.
Let us not exalt into a precedent the
most unjust and rigorous law of our prede-
cessors, of which they themselves declared
their repentance, or confessed the ineffi-
cacy, by never reviving it ; let us rather
endeavour to gain the sailors hv lenity and
moderation, and reconcile them to the
service. of the crown by real encourage-
ment : for it is rational to imaffine, that in
proportion as men are disgusted by injuries,
they will be won by kindness.
Theie is one expedient, Sh*, which de-
serves to be tried, and from which at least
more success may be hoped than from
cro^y, hunger, and persecution. The
ahips Uiat are now to be fitted out for
service, are those of the fiist magnitude,
which it is usual to bring back into the
ports in winter. Let us Uierefore promise
-to idl seamen that shall voluntarHy engage
iu'thenii besides the reward alreidy pro-
posed, a discharge from the service at the
end of six or seven months. By this they
will be released from dieir present dread
of slavery, and be certain, as they are
when in the service of the merehantB, of a
respite from their fatigues. Thetrsdeof
the nation will be only interrupted for a
time, and may be earned on in the winter
months, and large sums will be saved by
dismissing the seamen when they cannot
be employed.
By adding this to the other methods of
encouragement, and throwing ande all ri*
gorous and oppressive schemes, the nary
may easfly be manned, our eountiy pro-
tected, our commerce re-establishea, and
our enemies subdued ; but to pass the Bill
as it now stapds, is to determine that trade
shall cease, and that no ship shall sail out
of the river.
Sir ; it is coraraon for those to' h8?e the
greatest regard to their own interest who
discover the least for that of others. I do
not, therefore, demur of recdling the ad-
vocates of this BiD from the prosecutiott
of their favourite meeaines by arguments
of ip^eater efficaigr than those which are
founded on reason and justice.
Nothing, Sir, is more evident, than that
some degree of r^utatioa is absolotely'
necessarvto men who have any concern
in the administration of a government like
ours ; they must eilber secure the fidelity
of their adherents by the assistSDce of
wisdom, or of virtue ; their enemies mast
either be awed by their honesty, or terri-
fied by their cunning. Mere artless bri-
bery will never gain a sufficient majonty
to setthem entirdy freefrom apprebensioofi
of censure. To difierent tempers difierent
motives must be applied : some, who place
their felicity in being accounted wise, are
in very little care to preserve the character
of honesty; others maybe perauadedto
join in measures which ttiey easily discover
to be weak and ill concerted, because they
are oonvinctd that the authors of them
are not corrupt but mistaken, and are un-
willing that any man should be punished
for natural defects or casual ignorance.
I cannot say. Sir, which of these motive*
influence the advocates for the Bill before
us ; a Bill in which such cruelties are pro-
posed as are yet unknown amoag the niost
savage nations, such as slaverv has not
yet borne, or tyranny inventeQi such as
cannot be heard without Tesentpent; nor
thought of without hoRor.
Hf] DekdemtheCmmmiitmiheiSeanient^ BUI.
Uk, Sh^i peitepsy iHitaiifortiiiiat09 thst
mmofe expedient baa been added rather
Plealoas tnui abockuigy and that these
I «f Ae administration, who amuse
res with oppressing their fallow*
^ who add without relactaBce one
^to anochery ioTade the liberty of
Lk wboD thej have aheady overborne
Stite^ first pkmder and then imprison,
if tib sll opportunities of hei^tening
pepdblic distresses, and make th^ miseries
fasr dieiaBtnimentB of new oppressions,
btesigoorant to be formidable, and owe
liir Mstr not to their abilities, but to
l—sfptwperity, or to the iniuenee i^
^ lie other cbusea of this Bill, compli-
Itf once with cruelty and folly^ have
J trested with becoming indignation ;
(tfaif iDsyb^ considered with less ar-
Bid resentment, and fewer emo-
of sesl, because, though perhaps
fiaiqiuitoas, it will do no harm ; for
dist ean never be executed can
JQNrbefelt.
That it' will consume the manufacture
r,SDd swell the books of statutes,
'the good or hurt that can be hoi>ed
Ksd from a law like this; alaw which
I wfast is in its own nature mutable,
iprncribes ruiea io the seasons and
tio the wind.
iisB^too well acquainted, Sir, with the
iott of its two chief supporters, to
I the contempt with which this law
(treated by posterity; for they have
diewn wundantiy their disregard
IMseeeediog generations ; but I will re*
Utbni, that they are now renturing
brshele interest at once, and hope they
■iseiliect, before it is too hrte, that those
phdiere them to intend the happiness
thk eoQBtnr will never be confinned in
pk ofiaisn by open cruelty and noto*
himrettion ; and that those who have
wiheir own interest in view, will be
fiiti adhering to those leaders^ how-*
pwoldsod practised in expedients, how-
rrtrengthenedby corruption, or elated
lpoirer,who have no reason to hope
raicoasfrom either their virtue or abi*
A. D. 1741.
[106
ifir; die daose under our considera-
M IS iDoansiderately drawn up, that
(kBsposable to read it in the most
My msnner^ without discovering the
iMtty of.ntanetous amendments; no
^Avtts lobtaties or artfiil dedoclaons
are required in raisiDg objectioiis to this
part of the BiH ; they crowd upon us with«
out being sought, and mstead of exer*
dsing our sagacity, weary our attention.
The first error, or ralher one part of a
general ^nd complicated error, is the com-
putation of tune not by days but by
calendar months, which, as they are not
equal one to another, may embarrass the
accountbetween the sailora and those that
emj^y them* In all contracts of a short
duration, the time is to be reckoned by
weeks and days, by certain and regukir
periods, which has been so constantly the
practice of the sea-faring men, that perhaps
many of them do not know the meaning of
a calendar month : this indeed is a negfect
of no great importance, because no man
can be deprived by it of more than the
wages due for thd labour of a few days ;
but the other part of Uiis clause is more se«
riously to be considered, as it threatens
the sailors with gree(t injuries. For it is to
be enacted, that all contracts made for
more wages than are here allowed shidl be
totally void.
It cannot be denied to be possible, and
in my opinion it is very likely, that many
contracts will be made without the know-
ledge of. this law, and conse(]uently with*
out any design of violating it; but igno*
ranee, inevitable ignorance, though it is a
valid excuse for every other man, is no
plea for the unhappy sailor ; hemustsulfer,
though innocent, the penalty of a crime ;
must undergo danger, hardships, and la^
hour, without a recompence, and at the ^
end of a successful voyage, afler having
enriched his country by his industry, re-
turn home to a necessitous flEunily without .
bein^ able to relieve them.
It is scarcely n^essary. Sir, to raise any
naore objections to a dmue in which no-
thing is right ; but to shew how its imper-
fections multiply upon the slightest con-
sideration, I take this opportunity to ch»
serve that there is no provision made tor
regulating the voyages performed in less
time than a month, so that the greatest
part of the abuses, which have been re-
presented as the occasion of this clause,
are yet without remedy, and only those
sailors who venture far, and are exposed
to the greatest dangers, are restrained
from receiving an adequate reward*
Thus much, Sir, I have said upon the
supposition, that a regulation of the sailors*
wwes is either necessary or lust ; asup-
positiou of which I am very tar from dis-
covering the truth. .That it is just to-
107] ' 14; GEOBGE 11. Debate in the Commons on ihf Seamn^ fiifL r|g
sorhetorical.aceiiiure^ ftbeiiiooo?eiiiaia
opprau the tniMt useful of our feUaw sub*
jectfy to load those men with peculiar
hardflhips to whom we owe the plenty that
we enjoy* the power that yet renuuns Ia
the aatimiy ana which neither the folly |ior
the cowardiceof ministen have jyet been
able to deBtroy, and the eecurity m which
we now sit and hold our consultations ;
that it is just to lessen our payments at a
timeidien we increase the labour of those
who are hired, and to expose men to
danger without recompence, will not easily
be proved even by those who are most ac-
customed to paradoxes, and are ready to
undertake the proof of any position which
it is their interest to find true.
Nor is it much more easy to shew the
necessity of this expedient m our present
state, in which it appears from the title of
theBiU, that our cnief endeavour should
bet)ie increase and encouragement of
sailors, and, I suppose, it has not often
been discovered, that by taking away the
profits of a profession, greater numbers
nave been allured to it.
The high wages, Sir, paid by merchants
are the chief incitements that prevail upon
the ambitious, the necessitous, or the
avaricious, to forsake the ease and security
of the land, to leave easy trades and
healthful emplojrments, and expose them-
selves to an element where they are not
certain of an hour's safety. Theservice of
the merchants is the nursery in which sei^
men are trained up for his majesty's navies,
and from thence we must, in time of
danger, expect those forces by which alone
we can be protected.
If therolbre, it is necessary to encou-
rage sailors, it is neofmury to reject all
measures that may. terrify or disgust them ;
and, as their numbers must depend upon
our trade, let us not embarrass the mer-
chants with any other difficulties than those
which are inseparable from war, and which
very HttJe care has been hitherto taken to
alleviate.
Mr. /fay ;
Sir; the objeotions which have been
urged with so much ardour, and dis«
played with ^uch power of eloquence,
are not, in my opinioD, formidableenough
to discourage us firom prosecuting our
measures; some of them may be perhaps
readily answered, and the rest easily
removed.
The computation of time, as it now
stands, is allowed not to produce any for-
midable evD» and'therefoie did not re^piire
of calendar months mi^ eanly be i^2
ed bya little candour in the coatnolji
parties, or that the objection may not)
repeated to. the interruption of the deb
weeks or davs may be substituted, ,
the usual reckoning of the sailon be i
continued.
That some contracts may be i
and inconTenieodes or delays of ]
arise, is too evident to be questioi
in that case the sailor may have Ui j
medy provided, and be enabled to <
by an easy process, what he shall be j
to have deserved ; for it must be a]
reasonable, that eveiy man who ] __
honest and useAil employment^ shouUi
ceive the reward oihis diUgence aadl
lity»
Thus, Sir, may the clause^
loudly censured and violendy i ^
made useful and equitdi>le^ and 1
service advanced without injury toi
viduals.
Sir Robert Walpole : '
Sir; every law which exfteods ito^
fluence to great numbers, in variooi i
tions and circumstances, must piej
some consequences that were neveri
seen or intended, and is to be ceniun
appUuded as the general advantages i
conveniencies are found to prepon'
Of this kind is the law before us, a L^
forced oy the necessity of our aifiDnm
drawn up with no other intenticm t'
secure the public happiness, and |
that success which every man's
must prompt him to desire.
If, in the execution of this kw, 8
some inconveniendes should arini H
are to be remedied as fiist as they are^
covered, or if not capaUe of a reoaedvi
be patiently borne in eonfliderstioD or I
general advantage.
Thikt some temporary distuibances bi
be produced is not improbable; thed
content of the sailors may for a shoit ti
rise high, and our trade he suqiendedl
their obstinaqr; but obstinai^, hov«
determined, must yidd to hunger, I
wh^i no higher wages can be obtain
they will cheerfolly accept of those iriij
are here allowed them. Short voyagei
deed are not com(Srehended hi Uie dai^
and therefore the saihirs will eoffft
them upon their own terms; botthiK
jection can be of no weight with those ^
oppose the dause, beosase, if it isud
to liaut the wagea of the saUoiSi it is ]
DeUi$mAe Camnum on ike Seamen^ BUL A. 'D.^ 1741.
[iia
jtli«evoyi^ge8irithoiitTe8trictioii;
ildMMe thtt thmk theexpedlentliere jwo-
jed etfAMe and rational, may ^eraaps
\ wiDiiig to make some concessions to
iwlioaieof a diflferent opinion.
bat tbetffl will not remote every ob-
j to luooesBy nor add weight to one
i it the teiaace without making the
s IWiter ; that it wfll not sapi^y the
^wittoat incommoding the merchants
ed^pree ; that it may be sometimes
I by cunning, and sometimes abusdd
" e; and that at hst it will be less
_jitban is de8ured,maT perhaps be
...i; bat it has not yet neen proved
laijodier measures are more eligible,
~ t we are not to promote the public
• as far as we are able, though our
I may not produce effects equal
es.
tJiJin Barnard:
t; I know not by what fiitality it is
; nothing can be ur^ed in defence of
edaiue before us which does not tend
I dJRover its weakness and in&fficacy.
' I varmest patrons of this expedient are
' I by the mere force of conviction
t concessions as invalidate all their
f toA leave their opponents no
/of replying.
rdiort voyages are not comprehended
'n provision, what are we now contro-
{? what but the expedience of a law
laever be executed? the sailors,
r they are contemned by those who
^thon only worthy to be treated like
lof burthen, are not yet so stupid but
r can easily find out, that to serve
^ht for i^reater wages is more eli-
s than to toil a month for less ; and as
laumerous equipments that have been
^ 'f nadehave not left many more sailors
(lervice of the merchants than may
nplojed in the coasting trade, those
Itiafic to remoter parts must shut up
kboob, and wait till the expiration of
I act for an opportunity of renewing
) regidale the wages for one voyage,
ttol^ve another without limitation^ in
I af saarcity of seamen, is absolutely to
MMbat trade which is so restrained,
Ibdoohilesa a more efiectual embargo
\lm been yet invented.
It say man but suppose that the East-
leompany were obliged to give only
^ t wi^ that other traders afiow, and
!r how that part of our commerce
Ibe carried on; would not their goods
rot in their warehouses, and their ships lie
for ever in the harbour ? Would not the
aaflors refuse to contract with them ? or
desert them after a contract, upon the first
prospect of more advantageous employ-
Boent?
But it is not requisite to multiply argu-
ments in a question which may not only
be decided without long examination, but
in which we may determine our condu-
sions bv the experience of our ancestors.
Scarcely any right or wrong measures are
without a precedent, and often discover
what the most enlightened reason &iled to
foresee.
Let us therefore improve the errors of
our ancestors to our own advantage, and
whUst we neglect to imitate their virtues^
let us at least forbear to repeat their follies.
Alderman Pcrr^ :
Sir ; there is one objection more which
my acquaintaince with foreign trade im-
presses to6 strongly upon my mind to
suffer me to conceal it.
It is well known that the condition of a
seaman subjects him to the necessity of
spending a ereat part of his life at a dis-
tance firom his native country, in places
where he can neither hear of our designs^
nor be instructed in our laws, and there-
fore it is evident that no law ought to affect
him before a certain period of time,, in
which he may reasonably be supposed to
have been inrormed of it. For every man.
ought to have it in his power to avoid pu-
nishment, and to suffer only for negligence
and obstinacy.
It is quite unnecessary. Sir, to observe
to this assembly, that there are now, as at
all times, great numbers of sailors in every
part of the world, and that they at least
equally deserve our regard with those who
are under the more immediate influence of
thegovernment.
.These seamen have already contracted
for the price of their labour, and the re-
compence of their hazards, nor can we, in '
my opinion, without manifest iiljustice^
dissolve a contract founded upon equity,
and confirmed by law.
It is, Sir, an undisputed principle of go-
vernment, that no person should be pu*
nished without a crime; but is it no pu-
nishment to deprive a num of what is due
to him by a leeal stipulation, the condition
of which is onliis part honestly fulfilled I
Nothing, Sir, can be ima^ned mofre
calamitous than the disappointment to
which this law subjecU the unhappy men
Ill]
u geos6e n.
who ore ti<iw' pvomottng the interest of
their country in distant places^ aioidst
dangers and hardriiips, in unhealthy clip
mates and barbarous nations, where they
comfort themselves under the ^eitigueB of
labour and the miseries of sickness, with
the prospect of the sum which they shall
fain for the relief of their families, and
3ie respite which their wages will enable
them to enjoy ; but upon their return they
find their hopes blasted, and their con-
tracts dissolved by a law made in their ab-
sencQo
No human being, I think, can coolly and
deliberately inflict a hardship like this,
-and therefore I doubt not but those who
have by inadvertency given room for this,
objection, will either remove it by an
amendment, or, what is, in my opinion,
more eligible, reject the clause as inexpe-
dient, useless, and unjust.
Sir William Yonge:
Sir; this debate has been protracted,
not by any difficulties arising from the na^
ture of the questions which have been the
-subject of ity but by a neglect with which
almost all the opponents of the Bill may
be justly charged, the neglect of distin-
ffuishing between measures eligible in
Siemselves, and measures preferable to
consequences which are apprehended from
particular conjunctures; between laws
made only to advance tlie public happiness,
and expedients of whicn the benefit is
merely occasional, and of which the sole
intention is to avert some nationid cala«
mity, and which are to Cease with the ne-
cessity that produced them.
Such are the measures. Sir, which are
DOW intended; measures, which in days of
ease, security, and prosperity, it would be
the highest di^pree of weakness to propose,
'but of which I cannot see the absurdity in
times of danger and distress. Such laws
are the medicines of a state, useless and
nauseous in health, but preferable to a
linMring disease, or to a miserable death.
Even those measures. Sir, which have
been mentioned as most grossly absurd,
and r^resented as parallel to the provision
made m this clause, only to expose it to
contempt and ridicule, may in particular
circumstances be rational and just. To
settle the price of com in the. time of a
&mine, may become the wisest state, and
multitudes might, in time of public misery,
by the benefit of tei^porary laws, be pre-
served from destruction. Even those
mastS; to which, with a prosperous gale.
Debaie in^he Conmimti mi the Seam^lH^ BiU, ^
the slnp owes its usefuhiess and its n
are omn cut down by the sailois uj
fiinrof astomu
With regard to the ships which aiesi
in distant places, vduther no ksowled^
this law can oossibly be conveyed, it ^
not be ^nied that their crews ought t^
secured from injury by some panid
exception; for though it isevidlntinf|
petitions between puUic and private i
rest, which ought to be preferred,
ought to remember that no unnei _
iniury is to be done to individuals, ^
while we are providing for the safety c
nation*
Mr. Fazakerle^ :
Sir; though I cannot be supposed
have much acquaintance with na?al afil
and therefore may not perhi^ discsi
the full force of 'tne arguments thatU
been urged in favour of the dause tt
under consideration, yet. I cannot f
think myself under an mdispensable s|
gation to examine it as far as I am 4^
and to make use of the knowledge wUd
have acquired, however in&rior to that
others.
The arj^ument. Sir, the only real vk
ment, which has been produced in M
of the restraint of wages now proM
appears ^ me by no means coDcrai^
nor can I believe that the meanest ands||
ignorant seaman would, if it was propli
to him, hesitate a moment for an aoif
to it. Let -me suppose. Sir, a merdp
urging it as a charge against a seaaifl
that he raises his demand of wa^,
time of war, would not the sailor redj
reply, that harder labour required hu|
pay ? Would he not ask, why the gead
pn^ctice of mankind is chaiged as a c4
upon him only i Enquire, says he, of i
workmen in the docks, have they n
double wages for double labour ? Anli
not their lot safe and easy in compaiii
with mine, who at once encounter daq
and support fatigue; carry on warn
commerce at the s&me time, to condi
the ship and oppose the enemy, aodi
equally exposed to captivity and snipwree
That tnb is in reality the state o£
'sailor in time of war, I think, Sir, too e
dent to require proof; nor do I see vi
reply can be made to the sailor's arili
expostulation.
I know not why the sailors alone shoi
serve their country to their disadvaot^
and be expected to encounter dan(
without the incitement of a reward.
Ill] iHakhOfi^CommmmiitSmmm^SilL jL J), mi.
till
Nor iriD m part of the hardahjoi of
thisdaiue be ailemted bv the exp^ieiit
Attested bj an honourable member, who
^p^ sane time ago oi*graiitiDg,or allov-
iD|, to a aailer, whose contoact shall be
TQid, mbat oar courts of law should ad*
judge him to deaerre* a Qxiinkim iHeruU.
m,accan]iE(( to the geAend iaterpneta-
tioB of our ABtutQi, it win be determioed
tlat be bos forfeited his whole claim bjr
iegal omtract To inrtancej Sir, the
itatQte of oiuiy: he that atijiulates £ar
hi^mterest than is allowed, is jaotidde
to recover his legal demand, but irreop-
Tenb^ fiifeits the whole.
n^, Sr, an unhappy sailor, who shall'
uMceDCl/ tram^cesa this law, must lose
aS Ae fcafits o£ his voyage, and have
judung to neiieve him after Us &tiguas ;
butiEfaen be has ly his courage npelled
tbe eDOBj, and by his ikifl escaped storms
sod Eocb, must au&c jn^t severer faard-
^fs» in being subject to k forfeiture
«bm be ea^ected applause, CQwfort, ap4
ncooipeDocu
Mr. Altoraey Geneni Jl^ r
&; the clause before us caanot, in my
flfiaioD, produce any such drea^Hd con-
aqoeaca as the learned gentleman ap-
{ttstoimanne: however, to rcpnove all
iScuUe^ fom djnwn up an Amend-
Bttt, vlucb I shall be^ leave to propose,
dat the ooDtracts, winch msj^ be aii^cted
a the 6mBB now stands, * ^hall be void
* only SB to so much oif the wages as shall
^ exceed the sum to which the House shall
'agne to reduce the seaman's pay;' and
istothefmfeituregy they are not to^ levied
upon the vulors, but upon the merchants,
Of toding oompaBies, who eny>lojr thiem,
sod who are ab&e to pay greater sums with-
ttt being involved in poverty and distress.
^ith i€|gard. Sir, to the reasons for in-
trododog this clause^ they ate, in my
l&dgnient, valid and equitatue. We have
^ itnecessaiT to. u the rate of money
a iotetesti and uie rate of labour in seve-
Q|^caies; and if we do not in this case,
wut wiD be tl^e conj^equence I A second
^aiwgp op i^omoierce;, aad perk^ a
ffltilitflplaallmilitaiy pRparations. Is
twmooshietlBitaaynmnBfaould gate his
ynr tnnspiiug to the Imaiediate neees-
*faflflh(«etliaft employ hUa? Orthat
te iboQ]d raise Us own fortime by the
PUc cdamitiea f If thi^ has hi&erto
JKSft piactiQe,iU ja a practice oontraxy to
'^Ipiesdhaodineaa nEaocietv.and *Miaht.
If the aaSor^ Sir, is ax^aaod to greeler
dangers in time of war, is not the mer«
chant's trade carried on likewise at creal^r
hazard? Is not the freight, equally with
the sailors, threitt^ed at oqce by the
oceanand the enemy? Aod is ^ot tl^e
owner's fortune eooafiy impai|red,.whe|her
the al^p \b dashed upon a rocb;, or aeiaal
byMpnvateer?
The m^chants, theicefiMe^have %8 wueh
reason for paying len wa^ in time of
war, as the saupr fordemaading more»aiai
nothixig remains but tliat the kgidativia
power determine a medium between their
diffident interest^, w^th ji|stice,if poasiblo,
atJeast witbampurtialily.
Mr. Horatio Waipok:
Sir; I was nawilliiw to intmvpt the
course of thjs debate while it was carried
on with calmness and deqeoc^, ]9y men
who do not suffer the ardour of opposition
to doud their reason, or transport them to
Sttpb eacpcessions as the dignity of this as*-
seo^blydoes not admit. I have hithertp
deferred to answer the gentleaaan who
deplaimed against the Bill with fiudtx flu*
ency and rhetoric, and such ifcheqience ot
gesture, who charged the advocates for
^e expedients now proposed^ with havinf
^o xe^d to any interest but ti^r ^n»
and with makmg laws only to consua^
.Mper, and threatened them with the de-
feotioB of their adherents, and the loss «f
their inAueooe, up<»n this new discoveiy qf
their £^, and their ignorance.
Nor, Sir, do I now answer him for tmf
other purpose than to remind him how
little toe damoar of ragei and petulancy
of jnnectives, contribute tp the pui»ofla
for which this assembly is called to^etoer.;
how little the discovery of tr\KA is pro*
moted» and the aequrity of the nation esta*
blisbed by pai9{ioDs diction, and theatrioai
emotion.
Formidable soundly aqd furious deda^
mations, confident nssertianfi, and^ldlf
periods, may affect the young and ,unex*
perlenced, and perhaps the gentleiaaa
may ha^e 4y)atractedKis habits of oratory
by xsosurefsing more with those of his'^ymi
age, than with such as have had more ep*
portkmities of acquiring knowledge, and
more successful methods of communicating
their sentiments.
If the heal of his temper. Sir, would
suffer him to attend to tnose whose ^a
and io^g aoquainlanqe with buaioess give
them aa inflh^ntable right to defiureaca
and aajffiiiBrity, hawc^ iegniiin itaM^
in
115] 14 G£0R6E n. Debate in the Commons on the Seamen^ BUL [11
to reason rather than declaim, and to pre-
fer justfiefls of argument, and an accurate
knowledge of fact», to sounding epithets
mn4 splendid superlatives, whidi may dis-
turb the imagination for a moment, but
leave bo lasting impression on the mind.
He will learn. Sir, that to accuse and
prove are very different, and that re-
proaches, unsupported by evidence, affect
only the character of him, that utters
tfa^m.' Excursions of fiincy, and flights of
oratoryVare indeed pardonable in young
men, but in ho other; audit would surely
contribute more, even to the purpose for
which some gentlemen appear to speak,
that of depreciating the conduct of the
administration, to prove the inconvenien-
cies and injustice of this Bill, than barely
to assert tiiem, with whatever magnificence
of language, or appearance of zeal, honesty ,
or compassion.
Mr. Pitt :
Sir ; the atrocious crime of being a young
man, which the hon. gentleman lias wiUi
auch spirit and decency charged upon me,
I jshaA beither attempt to palliate, nor
deny, but content myself with • wishing
<hat I may be one of those whose follies
may cease with their youth, and not of
that number who are ignorant in spite of
experience.
Whether youth can be imputed to any
man as a reproach, I will not, Sir, assume
the province of determining; but surely
aee may become justly contemptible, if
the opportunities whidi it brings have
past away without improvement, and vice
appears to prevail when the passions have
subsided. The wretch that^ after having ^
seen the consequences of a thousand er-
rors, continues still to blunder, and whose
age has only added obstinacy to stupidity,
is surely the object of either abhorrence or
contempt, and deserves not that his grey
head should secure him from insiUts.*
* ^« This celebrated retort of Mr. Pitt existed
only in Johnson's -imagination, who penned
these debates ; and is one of the instances
which tealise bis assertion that * be to<^ care
the whig dogs should not hate the better of it.'
Ao anecdote, communicated bv.the late lord
Sydney, from the authority of bis father, who
was present, will exhibit the slender foandation
on which Mr. Pitt's sapposed philippic was
formed. I give it in his lordship's own words:
« In a debate, in which Mr. Pitt, Mr. Lvttleton,
and, perhaps, seme of the Grenvinas, who were
then ail ^oung manyhad violently attacked Mr.
Horace Walpole, he,.ia reply, « UuMOted that,
Much more, Sir, is he to be abhc
who, as he has advanced in age, bas
ceded from virtue, and becomes i
wicked with less temptation ; who pr
tutes himself for money which he ca
enjoy, and spends the remains of hh 1
in the ruin of his country.
But youth, Sir, is not my only eric
I have been accused of actmg a theatri
part. A theatrical part may either im|
some peculiaritiei^oi ^estuve, or adis'"*"^
lation of my real sentiments, and an i
tion of the opinions and language of t
other man.
In the first sense. Sir, the charge ia
trifling to be conftited, and deserves c
to be mentioned, that it may be despii
I am at liberty, Kke every other man^
use my own language ; and though I e
perhaps have some ambition to please i
gentleman, I shall not lay m^fvelT i
any restraint, nor very solicitoualy
his diction^ or his mien, however mat
by age, or modelled by experience.
If any man shall, by chargmg me
theatrical beliaviiour, imply, that I
any-sentiments but my own, I shall
him as a calutnniator and a villain ;
shall any protection shelter him-
the treatment which he deserves. 1 1
on such an occasion, without
trample upon all those forms with
weidth and dimity intrench themaeMl
nor shall any thing but ase restrain mj^
sentment ; age, which always brings oi
privilege, that of being insolent and aup^
cilious without punishment '
But, with regard. Sir, to those whoift
have offended, I am of opinion, that if I li
acted a borrowed part, i should have ayoi
ed their censure ; the' heat that oflfendH
them is the ardour of conviction, and tlij
zeal for the service of mv country, wtSi
neither hope nor fear shall influence me^
suppress. I will not sit unconcerned will
baring been so long in business, be found tfa
snch yonng men were so much better iofbraai
in political matters than himself; he had, hoi
ever, one consolation, which was, that he fai
a son not twenty yean old, and he had the m
tisfaetion to hope tnat be was as macfar wiaer tiil
them, as they were thaabia father.' lAr* P
ffot up with gxeat wacintb, begioninf^ wi
uieM words: *■ With the greatest reverenoa
the grey haira of the hon. gendeman !' Itf
Walpole pulled off bis'-w^, and shewred-l
head covered with gfrey hair ; which oocs»ibM
a general laiifi^bter, in' which Mr. Pitt jcHoe
and all warmm immediately subsided." CtaM
Memoirs of Horatio lord Walpole, vol. itf p. ifl
117] DdaUim Oe Ccmnms on Oe Semena? BOL A. D. I74r.
[US-
nsf Iteity v imraded, nor look in silence
upon public robbery «--I will exert my en-
desvoon, at wbaleYer basudy to repel the
Mgreanr, and drag the thidf to justice,
i^aerer nm protect tbem in their vil-
lainy, and irooeyer may partake of their
phioder. And if the honourable gen*
Mr. Winmngton called to order» and
5Ir. Pitt sitting down, he proceeded thus :
Sir; it ia necessary, that ^e order o^'
tins asKmUy be d[)served, and the debate
reBmned without personal altercations.
Sodi expsesnons as hare been vented on
dias occasion, become not an House ea-
tnsted with the liberty and welfare of their
ooontry. To interrupt the debate on a
Bidiject MO important as that before us, is,
in some nseaanre, to obattuct the pid>lic
happiuem, and violate our trust; But much
mflfe heinous b the crime of exposing our
detenmnationB to contempt, and inciting
the people to suspicion or mutiny, by in-
decent reflections, or unjust insinuations.
I do not. Sir, undertake to. decide the.
oontroverffy between the two gentlemen,
but must be allowed to observe, that no
diversity of opinion can justify the viola-
tion of decency^ and the use of rude and
virulent expreasioas ; expressions dictated
only by resentment, and uttered without
Teganl to
Mr. Piii called to order, and said :
Sir; if this be to preserve order, there
is no danger of indecency from the most
lioentions tongue; for what calumny can
be more atrocious, or what reproach more
severe, than that of speaking with regard
to any thing but truth. Order ma^ some-
times be broken by passion, or madver-
teacy,but will hardly oe re-established by
monitocs like this, who cannot gotem his
own pasnon, whilst he is restraining the
impetuosity of others.
Happy, Sir, would it be for mankind, if
every one knew bis own province; we
shoiiid not then see the same man at once
a criminal and a judge; nor would this
geatkoaan assume die right of dictating to
others wliat he has not learned himself.
Tittt 1 may return in some degree the
feoor wUdi he intends me, I will advise
him never hereafter to exert himsdf on
the aofeject of order j but whei^ever he
fiads Unaelf inclined to speak cm such
to remember how he has now
^ and condemn in silenoe what
ftHiB
Mr. Winnington:
Sir; as I was hindered by the gentle*
man's ardour and impetuosity from con-
cluding my sentence, none but myself can.
know the equity or partiality of my inten-
tions, and therefore, as I cannot justly be
condemned, I ought to bq supposed in«
noceht ; ^nor ought he to censure a fault
of which he cannot be certain that it
would ever have been committed.
, He has, indeed, exalted himaelf to a
d^ree of authority never yet assumed by
a»y member of this House, ,that of con-
demning others to silence., I am hence-
forward, by his inviolable decree, to sit
and hear his harangues without daring to
oppose him. How wide he may extend
his authority, or whom he will proceed to
include in the same sentence, I shall not
determine ; having not yet arrived at the
same degree of sagacity with himself, not
being able to foreknow what another ia
going to pronounce.
If I had given offence by any improper
sallies of ptoion, I- ought to have been
censured by the concurrent voice of the
House, or have received a reprimand, Sir,
from you, to whom I shouUl have sub*
mitted without opposition ; but I will not
be doomed to silence by one who has no
pretensions to authority, ind whose aibi-.
trary decisions can only tend to introduce
uproar, discord and confusion.
Mr. Henry Pelham .•
Sic; when in the ardour of controversy •
upon mteresting questions, the zeal of the^
disputants hinders them from a nice ob-
servation of decency and regularity, there
is some indulgence due to the common
weakness of our nature; nor ought any
gentleman to affix to a Qealigent expression
a more offensive sense than ia necessarily
implied by iu ^
To search deep, Sir, for calunmies and
reproaches is no laudable nor, beneficial ,
curiosity ; it must always be troublesome
to ourselves, by alarminsuswith imaginary
injuries ; and may oflen be unjust to others,
by charging them with invectives which
they never intended. Qi^neral candour .
and mutual tenderness will best preserve
our own quiet, and support that jd^nity
which hAs always been accounted essential
to tiational debatesi and seldom infringed
without dangerous consequences.
Mr. Lyttditm :
Sir; no man pan be mora aealous for
119]
MOBOBGEIL Oamktti^ebmmmmmOi
decency than myselfy or more oonniiGed
of Uie necessity of a methodical prosecu-
tioii of the queMion beibre us* I am well
coBTineed how near indecency and fiustion
at« to one another, and how inevitably
Gonftttion produces ohacurity; but I hope
ie will alwa^j^a be remembered, that he #no
ftrst infringes decency, of deviates frem
method, is to answer for ell the eoine-
quenees that may mse fh»m the neglect of
parliamentary citotouTB. For it is not to be
ekpected that any man wiU bear reproaches
winiout reply, or that he who wanders
from the question will not be fbllowed in
his digressions, and hunted throiigh his
labyrinths.
It cannot. Sir, be denied, that some b-
tinuations were uttered, injarious to thoM
whose zeal may sometimes happen to
pompt them to warm dedarations, or to
incite them to passionate emotioas. Whe-
ther I am of hnportanee enoogh to be in*
eluded in the censure, I despise it too
much to enquire or consider, but euanot
forbear to observe, that zeal for the right
can never become reproadifiil, and that
no man can &R into contempt baft Ihoae
who deserve it.
The Clause was amended and agreed to.
March 13. Sir John Barnard prescBted
ft Petitbn from the merdianta at London,
against the Bill, and spoke aa fidlowa:
Sir ; this Petition I am directed to lay
before this House hy many of the piioci*
CI merchants of tliat great city whidi I
ve'the honour to represent; men too
Wise to be terrified with unaf^naiy dangers,
imd too honest to endeavour ^e obstmo*
lions of any measures that may prdliaUy
advance the public good, merdy because
they do not concur with their private inte-
rest; men, whose knowledge and capacity
enable thcxn to judge rigMy, and whose
acknowledged integrity and spirit set tliem
a&ove the suspicion of conoealmg their
aentiments*
I therefore present Ab Petition m the
name of the merchants of London, in fbll
confidence that it will be found to deserve
the regard of this House, though I am
dqutdly with the other members a Strang
to what it contains; for it i^ my OfMbion
tbat a representative is €6 lay before the
House the sentiments of his constitH^;nts,
whether they agree ^th bis own or not,
and that therefore it would hsfre been su*
perfluous to examine the Petition, which,
though I might not wholly have approved
ft, I had no right to alter.
xii^ Petitiotr waa vBD.nM, sinig
fertfi, ^ Itek thepatitianaaa are iafciiuiii,
that fcBiM is depmidiagift this Hwss, far
the Mcoaragemenl ani ineroase «f ns-
men, and for the better and qpaedier bhu-
ning his mjeiQr'a fleet, m whidi tn
danoes, thai slMuld the Bili pass inta s
law, will, as the petitioners anptahtad, be
highly detrimental to the trade aad navi-
gation of this kingdom ; and that the petU
tinners are persuaded, that die only dfec-
tual and epcodif medtod df procnnng, finr
thesemce of liiaaDHda8lrf*s net, a fropovw
tionable number of toe saftora in tha kmg-
dom, is, to di^tingunh that M^ ef nra
by bounties and enooaragemeails, bttk
pvasentand flitme^ aodbyabolUuDgift
methods of aeveriqr; aad that the atti-
tionm beliaiPe, H will not be dificott ts
have such metheda pointed oot ss vill
tend to supply the praaant nawBifliii|Ssd
at the same time eAietxmUy Mttotethe
mcreaseofwnawns 8iidMnn9,disttii0
petitioners may be haard,Vy theff csonidr
againaf the said daaan hi the said m'*
--Ordered, that the said Fstitioa da lie
upon the table.
Mr. Bathurst then presented a Peti-
tion,and spoke as follows :
Sir; the alacaa which tha Bill n^rde-
pendaig has raised, is not confiaed totiw
city of London, or to any particulsr pro-
vince of his majesty's dominions ; the
whole nation is Arown into commotions,
and the eflEeots of the law now propoKd
are' dr^tded far and wide as a general cft*
hunity. E^ery tawn» which owfs its tnds
and ita provisions lo navigation, apprehends
die approach of novcaty mid scaicitV) vA
these which are less immediataly affected,
consider the infinaction of our liberties as a
prehide to dieir destruction. Happy
would it bey if we^ who are entrusted with
their interest, could find any argumenU
to convince them that their terror was
merely panic
That these feara have ahredly extended
their influence to the county which I re-
present, the Petition whidi I now beg
leave te lay before the House, will suffici-
ently evince, and I hope their renoa-
straaces will prevail with this asBenUy to
remove the causeof their diifiiat, by rtf'
jectmg the Bill.
This was entitled a Fl^tirioa ^tmwA
gentiemeB, fredbeldeia, and odMr iobsM-
tanf^ of the eonty of Glaaeaater, «
bd^alf ef diemselfearani all oAer the ^
holders -of *a «di imM]^
JMIii«iilr
akuMM pM inia ft few, wiD t9«^
■r te Weed of ■rtM«f| by whom
^im wtAan aa» be dtfaoded, aaA iti
l^wAii— nirii earned en; enAUMl^
^hi tfB^ tinejlbeft it wiil not anewer
boMMHeof ilale^ it will bo ofoAiO'
(iirMAjDeeomiMioe ndUooddmli
Hi tecfiwe ezprOBHOg their hope, tbik
^tik Mwill oot pais into mhairJ*
)b Batty Pdham.'
^fc I k«v» oMoftJed to fk» Fletitioa
^^Atttneit importioyty, and iMWer e^
' to affix to ererf period dio
itoiB^epinioB tbokltiote
I frM die itile 4f sidmnauoD aad
I; iartead of jirwuMiiiiftj they at^
to iatiiaidate w^ and menaee no
ta0]ewdHai btooddMjdaodtebeiiiatw
the jodgae of our
from oor detor**
IfAef will ob^ ao kngor than they
(■eairiBOneaa
I; n Ur J^MWRiro 1
Bkoi,aiid8«bjecftt]
r, Sir^ are ad^
oil sobinit to
leiiMieatpleo-
witfa wliich the gofernmeot
oiiat if Ibia Ho«e but a Gour
tf eaipgr phaatoms, wboee d&ter*
mjMng mote thap a
ofBtate^
aaah npoD this Hooao la m tio-
idoor ceMtitntioft; and the eenati*
At c?ery other iibfie, by bemg
kttered, must fall at last It is in-
Ibcidy deitraved, if there be in the
i aiy body oe.nwn tHio dnH with
a^ icfcae to eomplj with die laws^
die gieat dwirter or liberty agamst
potca that made it, and fix the
sfdRirebedieBCe.
IquMtySir) pan over in silence the
HbasfUiinyestyt whose title to the
Nae^SBdte reesoos for which he waa
dM tt it, are set Ibrtfa widi uncoounoo
Mas isint of dictien^ bot spirit, nHneh,
WSMisn, appeem not fuseA by teal,
jt iy iiiitioii, and which thentfeto ft ia
MiaisfMber^, wif bofOMmj oon*
MrbatkeesfaaMwoobielo
ebiytli
Aft A«IX17«1. [JOf
Loiuo Ihesefbsef in regasd tw the dig*
MlyofdMaHoaae^tOthoeadney of oiw
detenfunatione^ and the seontity Of otw
constitutk>n, discourage al those who sbaH
addhresaus lot the f mwro on thioorony
other oecisisiiy ftoa ^peaking in the arid
of goverdon and diototoasy by refnsb^ that
thia Petition ahonld be kid on the (
The
it
|nrt,iaid
not lie eai the
Mr. Pelham rose ag^, and saii!:
8nr; I eannot but
House dpeo the onaniinnty with whioh
tUi iVtiuon, n petition of whidt i sneak
in the aoAmt holgnagB^ when I call it
Torentand diarei^eotful, has Imv
the rsgiud osasiMnily paid to tho
stranesa of o«r constitueots^ whoi
I am fitf from desiring to infringe, when I
ondeflvt>ur to regnlato«h«ir eondtoot^ and
reeal thAn to their duty..
This k an ocoasion, oo wMeb it is^ in a^
opinicm, necessary to exert our outhosi^
with confidence and vigour, as the spfant
of enposition must aiwoya bo peportientd
to that of the nttnok. Let us theiOibBW
not only refuse to thiapetitiett thoonnd
phwe on oor table, bvt re^ it aa wtmo^
diy^ofdiis House.
The 9iestienwaapiit,aisddBBetiiis»
rejected.
The Honse then entered npen the eo»*
sideration of the Bil, and when the JMm
port waa made from the <
thaUanksfiUednp,
Sir William Yonge rose and safd ;
Sir ; the Bill has been bnm^ by steady
perserecanco and dilkent attcntian to tmm
perfeotian, that much nwre imporauH oii
lects may be expected from k than fmaa
any firmer kw frw the same purpose, if It
be executed with the same cabnnem and
resohition, the same contempt of popokv
damour, and the aame invannble and an«
trepid adherence to tbepnbitcmKl,l
has beoi shewn in* fomnng and d^
fiulwhatcan wehepeironithkorany
other ksr, if pnrticuiar men, whio^ cannet
be cmiriaoed of its expedience, shall net
odf mfhae to obey k, but dadase tbok
dostan of ohatructmg the execution of k i
shau detesmina to retins from the spkmu
,mihev<han ^aomaB^ia
Kdoeteeofthepack
inpiablBiMitooalf
tSSj UCffiORGEU. JkkaeiitAeCemmimiMtie
llie eoontvy in to their aariittnce^ and to
pour the rabble by tliouHOidB upon thote
who tkaiXL dare to do their duty, and obey
their governors^
Sooh- dedaratioM as these. Sir, -are
little less than sallies of vebdlion, and if
diey pass without censure, will perhaps
pmnoe sudi commotions as nuy reqaiie
to be suppressed by other means than
forms of law and parliamentary censures.
Nor do I think that by rejecting the Pe-
tition, we have sufficiently established our
authority ; for,' in my t>pinion, we yielded
too much in receiving it^ The Bill before
US, idiatever may be its title, is in reality
a Baoney«-bill, a bill by which aids are
Slanted to the crown, ttid we have there-
fore no necessity of rejecting Petitions oo
this occeifon, because the standing orders
of the House forbid us to admit thiem*
.. The House then proceeded to the
Amendments, and when the Clause for
liniting the Wages of Seamen was read.
Sir John Barnard said :
. Sir ; we are now to consider the dense
to which the Petition rdates which I have
now presented, a Petition on a subject of
ao goieral importance, and ofoed by men
80 well acquainted with every argument
that jcan be ofiered, and every objection
that can be raised, that their request of
being heard by their counsel, cannot be
denied, without exposing us to the cen-
aurte of adhering obstinately to our own
opinions, of shutting our ears against in-
formation, of preferring expedients to se>
curity, and disr^arding the welfiue of our
CQunt^.
' It inll not be necessary to defer our
determinations on this danse formore than
three days, thw^ we should grati^ this
just and common request. Ami will not
this loss be amply compensated by the sa-
tisfoction of the peoole, for whose aafe^
we are debating, and oy the consciousness
Ami we have neglected nothing whidi
jnig^t contribute to the efficacy of our
HieaBiires?
The merchants. Sir, do not come before
«s wiUi loud remonatraneesandhanassing
oonqplaints, they do not apply to our pas-
jions but our understanoings, and oflEer
audi iflfomiations as will very much iad-
litate Uie public service. It has been fire-
queat, in the course of (his debate, to hear
loud dipmands for better expedients, and
niNre etBeacious than .those which have
jMapoopoaedtaDd IB it to b^xoficemd
font those who called thus ei^eily fbrnew
proposals ioteaded aut to infomt tliem-
sdv«s but to silence their opponenta ?
From whom. Sir, are the best methods
for the nrasecotioa of naval affiura to be
expedked, but from those whoae lives are
spent in the study of commerce ? vHiose
fortunes depend upon the knowledge of the
sea, and who wdl most probabfy exert
their abilities in contriving expedients
to promote the success of the vrar» than
they whom the miscai^Jage of oar fleets
must irrepardily ruin ?
Thfe merdnuits, &, are enabled by their
profession to inform us, are deterred by
their interest from deceivii^ us ; they
have, like all other 8ub|ects, a right to be
heardon any question, and a better right
than any other when their interest ia more
immediatdy affected ; and therefore to re-
fuse to httff them, will be at once impolitic
and crud ; 'it wUI discover at the same
time a contempt of the -most valuable part
of our fellow-subjects, and an iaflexibie
adherence to our own opinions.
The exnedient of asMrting this to be a
money bul, by whidi the just remon-
strances of the merchants are indeed to be
duded,is too trivial and gross to be adopt-
ed by this parliament; if thb Bill can be
termed a money Bill, and no petitions are
therefore to be admitted against it, 1 know
not any Bill relating to the general affiurs
of the nation whidi may not plead the
same. title to an exemption from petitions.
1 therefore desire that the considera-
tion of this clause inay be deferred for two
days, that the arguments of the merchants
may be examined, and that thia affiur may
not be determined without the cleared
knowledge and exactest informatiim.
SiriloAert fTfl/joofc.-
Sir; the Petitioo, whether justifiable or
not, with regard to the occanon on which
it is presented, or the languiee in which
it is expressed, is certamlv offered at an
improper time, and therefore can lay no
daun to the r^ard of this House.
The time prescribed by the rides of this
House for the reception of petitions is
that, at which the Bill is first mtrodaced,
not at which it ia to be finally .determined.
The Petition before us is said not to re-
gard the Bill in g^ieral, but a particular
clause ; and it is thetefote asserted, that it
may now propedy be heard; but thia plea
will immediatdy vanish, when it ahallbe
made appear that the daiiae is not men-
tioned in it, and that there ia no p*r^mV
Debate in the Commom' <m the Seamem* &iU.
and the Petition,
125]
relation between Aat
whidi I afaaO attempt^
Sir John Barnard: '
Sir; I rise thus abraptly, to preserve
Ae order of this House, and to prevent
anj. gentleman from having in this debate
my other advantage above the rest, than
that of superior abilities, or more extensive
knowledge:.
The. Petition was not ordered by the
House to be placed in the right hon. gen-
tleman's hano, but on the table; nor has
he a right to make use of any other means
for his information, than are in the power
of any other member: if he is in doubt
upon any particulars contained in it, he
may move. That the derk should read it to
the House.
[Sir Robert Walpole laid down, the
Paper.]
Mr, Henrtf Pctham :
Sir; I am so far from thinking the roles
of the House asserted, that, in my opinion,
the right of the member is infringed by
this pereooptory deramd. Is it not in the
highest degree requisite, that he who is
^ut to reason iqpon the Petition, should
acquaint himsdf with the subject on* which
he is to speak ?
What inconveniences can ensue from
SDch liberties as this, I am not able to dis-
corer, and as all the orders of the House
ire, doubtless, made for more easy and
expeditious dispatch ; if an order be con*
trvy to this end, it ought to be abrogated
for the reasons for wmch others are ob-
seived.
The confidence with which this Peti-
tion wn presented, will not suffer us to
imagitte tiiat the person who offered it
foin that it can scmer by a close examina-
tioD, and, I suppose, though he has spoken
so wannlyinfayour of it without perusing,
he does not expect that others should with
e<{aal confidence admit
Sir John Barnard observing that sir
Robert Walpole leaned forwara towards
the taUe, to read the Petition as it lay,
nxe, and said:
Sir; I rise once more to demand the
tfaemtion of the orders of the House,
and to hinder the right hon. gentleman
from doing by stratagem, what he did
more ogeniy and hmiestly befiyre.
It wastolittle puqyose that he laid down
Ik Pey&io, if he pbend it witbtn the
A. ». 1?«.
rills
reach* of his inspection r for I wte only de-
sirous, Sir, to hinder him f^om' reading,
and was far from suspecting that ho would
take it away. I Insist, thfit henceforward
he obey the rules of this House with hk
eyes as well as with his hands, and take no
advantage of bis seat, which may enable
him to perplex the question in dmte.
The Speaker .• .;
Sn* ; 'it is undoubtedly reqmVed by the
orders 'of- the /House, that the Petitiorfs
should lie upon the table, and tbslt any
member, who* is desirous of any farther
satisfaction, should move, that they be read
by the clerk, that every member may have
the same opportunity of understanding and
considering them, and that no' one may be
excluded from mformationbvthecorioftitjr
or delays of another* Butthe importance
of thia affidr seems not to be so very grettt
as to require a rigorous observance of the
rules; and it were to be wished, for tbe
ease and expedition of our deiiberiilions,
fentlemen would rather yield points of ifi-
ifference to one another, than insist so
warmly on circumstances of a tririal na-
ture. »
Sir Robert Walpole then deft'red that'
the cMrk mi^ht read the Petition, which
bein^ immediately done, he proceeded in
the tollowing manner :
Sir Robert Walpole : '
Sir; having sat above forty years in this
a6send)ly, and never been called to older
before, I was somewhat disconcerted by a
censure so new and unexpected, and, iti
my opinion^ undeserved. So that I am
somewhat at a loss, with regard to tlKa
train of arguments which I will now en-
deavour to recover. Ydt I cannot but ra^
mark, that those gentlemen who are so
solicitors for order in others, ought them-
selves invariably to observe it; andtha»,
if I have once given an unhappy precedent
of violating the rules of this House, I have,
m some measure, atoned for my inadver-
tence, by a patient attention to reprooff
and a rea^ submission to authority.
Ihope, Sir, I may claim some indulgence
from the motive of my ofienee, which
was only a desire of accuracy, and an a|^
prehension that I might, by mistljdng^ or
forgetting some passages in the Petmon,
lose my own time, and itftermpt the pto^
ceedings of the House to no purpose.
But having now, aocerditag to oid^,
hetoA the FMion, f)^ f0undiiOMiiieii^«a
Wri H^^OHG^IL JkhUmiieCmmmmiieSemMrBaL ^^
tiogp At lIPMi^f that it ought not to be
Tbe Potion, $ir» J0 lo fiur fimi lMtrii«
:My. fMrticukr rqlatioo to the cbmap jumt
jbMne «s, thflt it 4oei pot io yi^ pvt meo-
<j|i00 th9«*p9diei)t propote4 in it^ butcoo^
laii)# •^f^ncrvl declaration of 4i4ooiiteDl»
ioapidon, apprehensions of dangerous pro-
ceedings, ana dislike of our proceedings :
inpioiiatieaSf Sky bf no neans oonsktent
'ivjith the reverence due to this asaenbiy,
Md flirhich the iiafture of civil govenuaent
.ffW|uires always to bepaidtothe kgisfai-
tvopever.
Totfuapaet any mant Sir, in camnMm
jUJEp, js in some degree to detract frooi his
jvepulatioOf which must suftr in jpxopor-
IJente the supposed wisdom and m^sgrity
Oif him vhp declares his sun»icion. To
fuspeot the condnotof this Howe, is to
iprdadate Jibeir decisioos, and fubject
Ihevifooonteannt and oppesition*
SiMBjh aad sudi onljr appsen to be the
Jtmlency of die Petition vluch has now
lieee Mad ; a Petitioo* SiTj very unskflfully
.dmiriiyif it was intended s^gainsttfie dauae
underour consideration, for it has |Uit n
single period or expression that does not
If sm particular objection is made, or
«ny sioi^grievance Mocedistinctly pointed
at, it is the practice of i«sprasaa9; m hard-
ahip I own peculiar to the sailors ; but it
must be observed, that it is a praetice es-
triilMied by iaonmiarial custom, and a
imin of pceoedents not to be numbered;
ju^ k m wdl toova that the whole oom-
:«ion lew of thia nation is nothioig more
.Ihen oweom* of arhicb Ibe beginning can-
jHStbetwoed.
. Jaipaoineg,8ir, have in all lyses been is-
.ened out b]f virtue of the royal pnpr^^gative,
.nndikBve m.all age^ been obeyed ; and if
4110 ewvtMm of tMt wtbority h^ been
nonaUared as n metiiod of aefforlty not
.<neaQpeRsaledl>y the benefits wUd) it pro-
.dnoe^ wo «annot iaiagine botfonner par-
Jiaiients,oniidatdl their ardour for liberty,
Jill their lendemeas for the people, and m
their nhhanrenee of tjbe power of tlie
«roim, wiould have obviated it by ppme
3m f at thoie tims when nothiing could
teve lieen refiwd them*
Theprapfriiiae for nor sfihemea and
for amandipg our con-
iiiniowg jORraftonaiegdev-
Ihe deiv 4if frofi^eaty m^
,frfair, whenM mnedialeidffifier pneses
to titrotop ua ; but wben vfr ia deidnred^
when we are engaged in open h^rtilitifs
against one natKm, and expect to be
speedily attacked by anediar, we are not
to try experimental hut wyly todengierooa
evils those remedies, which, thoogh dis-
agreeahle, we know to be efficacMMia,
And though. Sir, the petitioacn had
been more particulv, J cannot diacover
the reasonableness of hearing tbem hj
theur oounael; for to what purpose are the
lawyers to be introdiioed i not to instruct
us by their learning, for their employment
is to understand the laws that hare been
already made; and sunport the practioes
which they find estabUned* Bnt tHp onea*
tion befisre us idates not to the paet but to
the futuae; nor are we now to exawfiinp
what has be^i done in former Mea, bul
whatit will become us to establisE on the
present occasion t neubject of eaamry <
on
which this House can euectvervIiCt^ in-
formation from theprolessonorthelaw!
Pexhaps the Pelitioaers espeet from
their ceiinaelt that they ahoutd di^laj «he
fecundity of their imaginarion, and the
degaoce of their language; that they
should anmse us with tEe illusionw oif
oratonr, dazzle us with bright idani^ aSsct
m with strony rquiesentations, and luUas
with harmonious periods; butif itbeonly
intended that just facts and validamimentB
shoald be laid be&re ui^ tbqr wiU he re-
ceived without the decorations of the liar*
For thisend, Sir, it wouU have been auf-
ficient had the merchants infotmed their
r^resentatives nf the methods wUiA tb^
have to propose ; for the abiiitiea of the
gentlemen whom the city has dgmted to
this House, are well known to be auch as
stand in nc^ef no assistance firom occa-
sional omtors. Nor can it be expected
that any men will be found more cuwhle
of undentandii^ the argumenta or the
mflrchftnls^ or better qualified lo lay them
befi>re the House.
That every petitioner has {except on
Money-bills) a right to be ha«^ is un-
doubtedly true; but it is no less evident
Ijiat this right is litkitted to a.oertttn time>
end thaton this jx^canon the proper thase
ts elaosed. Justice is due both to indi-
viduals and to the nation; if petitionamay
at any Iwe be oftred» and §re whenever
oSsasdtobe heard* aaaiell bod^ofms»
m^fht, 1^ uoaeasonable and impoHiinnte
fiati^ona, aatacd any ooEawifaial tanr* Ull >t
should becoaie unneeoamy*
IMtionap S«r» eee to be offered when a
MwUttiabiOHihtifaitolbe JiouaCf Aat «ll
IkbM§0m tke Conmam tm the Seamen^ BUL • A, D. 174L
[130
mebl iofeRaatkm may be obtained ; but
when it hag passed through the examina-
tkn of the committeea, has been approve
by the coUectiye wisdom of the parliament,
nd reaoires onlj a formal ratification to
^itttieftrceoflaw^ it isneidier usual
nor decent to offer petitions, or declare
injdidike of what the parliament has ad-
We aie not, when we have proceeded
thus fiur, to suffer pleaders to examine our
coodoetyor vary our determinations^ ac-
cmding to the opinicms of those whom we
ou^t tebeEofo less acquainted with the
<|iMitif»dian onrselYes: should we once
be redoced to ask advice, and submit to
didston, what would be the reputation of
Chv HoQse in foreign- courts, or in our
owDGOontry? What could be expected
but dnt our enemies of every kind would
eDdesroor to regulate our determinations
by bribmg onr instructors.
Nor can I think it necessary that law*
jm tboold be employed in laying before
V any scheme wht€:h the merchimts nuqr
propose, for supplying the ddects and re-
TOm^tiie inconveniencies of the laws,
by vhich sailors are at present levied for
tw royal navy : for how should lawyers be
Dore qoalifiea tham other men, to explain
tk particubr advantages of such expe->
dientoy or to answer any objections which
o» happen to ariae I
It 18 weQ known that it is not easy for
tbeiBoithK>py speaker to impress his no-
tioDi with toe strength with which he con-
cditt them; and yet harder is the task of
tnaanittiiig imparted knowledge, of con«
veying to oSien those sentiments which we
WDot stmdL out by our own reflection,
oorooBected from our own experience,
botiiecafed merely from the dictates of
"Dodier.
Yetiodi must be the information that
livycn GUI give us, who can only relate
what they have implicitly received, and
weaken ttie afguments which thqr have
beaid, bj an imperfeet recital.
Nor do I only oppose the admission of
l**yaa to our Var, but think the right of
the nerdianti themselves in the present
c*tt very questionable; for though in ge-
Ml it must be allowed, that every peti-
pooer baa a ckum to our attention, yet it
B to l)e enquired whether it is likely that
f «..Ki:^ L — ?___^ jg Y^ chief concern.
^ whedier his private interest is not
too mudi affected to suffer him to ^ve
^>[tial evidence, or honest mformation.
wcdy any lair can be made by which
[VOL, XII.]
some man is not either in^verished, or
hindered from growine rich ; and we are
not to listen to compmints, of which the
foundation is so easily discovered, or ima-
gine a law less useful, because those who
suffer some immediate inconvenience from
it, do not approve it.
The question before us is required by
the present exigence of our affiurs to be
speedily decided; and though the mer-
cnants have, with great tenckmess, com-
passicm, and modesty^ condescended to
ofier us their advice, I think expedition
preferable to any information that can rea-
sonably be expected from them, and that,
as they will suffer in the first place by any
misconduct of our naval a&irs, we shall
shew more regard to their interest by man-
ning our fleet immediately, than by wait-
ing three or four days for fisurther instruc-
tions.
Mr. Sandys :
Sir ; the merchants of London, whether
we consider their numbers, their property,
their integrity, or their wisdom, are a body
of too much importance to be thus con-
temptuously rejected; rejected when they
ask nothing that can be iui^ denied to
the meanest subject of the kin^om; when
they propose tp speak on nothmg but what
their profession enables them to under-
stand.
To no purpose is it urged, that the Bill
is &r advanced ; for if we have not pro*
ceeded in the right way, we ought to be
in more haste to return, in proportion as
we have gone farther ; nor can I discover
why we should expedite, with so muoh
assiduity, measures which are judged in-
effectual, by those who know their conse-
ouences best, and for whose advantage
tn^ are particularly designed.
That we have abeady spent so much
time in considering methodls for manning
the fleet, is surdy one reason why we
should endeavour at last to establish such
as may be effisctual ; nor can we hope to
succeed without a patient attention to their
opinion, who must necessarily be well ex*
perienced in naval affiurs.
It ia surely therefore neither prudonl
nor just to shut out intelligence from our
assemblies, and .ridicule the good intention
of those that o&r it; to consult upon Uie
best expedients for encouraging and in-
creasing sailors, and when ^ the mer*
^ants ofier their scheme, to treat them
as sauqr, impertinent, idle meddlers,, that
assume—-
ISIJ
14 GEORGE IL DdmUintkeanmHomomtheS^amm^MU. 1138
Mr. AttoraejXS^ieral Jtydb- .*
Sir ; it is not very consistent to pr^sss
the dispatch of business, and to retard it
at the same time by invidious insinuations,
or unjust representations of arguments or
expressions ; whenever any expression is
censured, it oi^ht to be repeated in the
same words ; for otherwise does not the
animadverter raise the phantom that he
encounters ? Does he not make the stain,
lirhich he endeavours with so much offi-
cious zeal to wipe away i
Tliat no epithets of contempt or ridicule
have in this debate been applied to tfie
merchants, nor any violation of decency
attempted, it is unnecessary to prove ; ana
therefore it Is neither regular nor candid
to represent any man as aj^avating the
refusal of their petition with reproaches
and insults. But not to dwell longer on
this incident, I will take the liberty of re-
minding the gentleman, that pecsonal an-
yectivesare always at least superfluous, and
that the business of the day requires rather
aiguments than satire.
Mr. Sawfyt :
Sir; 1 am by no means convinced ^hat
(he learned ^tleman who charges me
with irre^ulanty, is better acquainted than
xnyself with the redes and customs of this
House, whidi I have studied with great
application, assisted by long experience.
I nope, therefore, it wiu be no inexcusable
{nresumption, if, instead of a tacit submis-
sion to his cen3ure, I assert, in my own
vindication, that I have not deviatea fh>m
Hie established rules of nariiament; that I
have spoken only in defence of merit in-
tuited; and that I have condemned only
such injurious insinuations; I did not,
Sir, attempt to repeat expressions, as dught
not to be neard without reply.
The Speaker:
Sir; 1 believe the geDtleman either
hand imperftctly, or misandentood those
expressions, which he so warmly con-
damns, for nolliing has been uttered Chat
eonld jusdy excite his indignation. My
office obliges me on this occasion to re-
nark, diat -the regard doe to the dignity of
the House ought to restrain every member
Siam digressions into private satire ; for in
fvoportton as we proceed with less de-
cency, our deteiminations wHl have lem
influence.
Mr. Henri/ Pdham :
Sir; the reputation which the Jion. gen-
tleman has acquired by his uooommoa
knowledge of the usiiges of parliament^ ia
too well founded to be shaken ; nor was
any attack upon his character intended,
when he was interrupted in the proeeoutioQ
of his design. To censure any indecent
expression, bj whomsoever uttered, »
doubtless consistent with the strictesa re-
gularity ; nor is it less improper to obviate
any nusrepresentation whioa inattenrion
or mistake may produce* ,
I am far, Sir, from lhuEikin|^ tkat tiie
gentleman's indignation was excited ratlier
hy malice than mistake ;- bvt mistakes of
this kind may produce ooasequencea vbich
cannot be too cautioudy. avoided* How
unwillii^ly woiildthat gentleman prcM-
gate tiirough the nation an opinion ttiaa
tiie merchants were insidted in this Houaot
tii^ interest neglectcnd, and their int^li-
g^ce despised, at a time when no mp|er-
sion was thrown 4)^^ then, nor aqy tfiiw
intended but tenderness and regard i And
yet such had been the r^res^tation of
this di^'s debate, which this numeioua
audieaoe would have conveyed to the po-
oulace,kad net the mist^e been ioaiiie-
oiately rectified, and the nimpur crashed
in the birth.
Nothiog, Sir, can be more iiyuriouB to
the chavacter of this Hease, by which the
people are represented, than to aocuae
them of treating any class of men wifli m-'
solencc and contempt; and too modti di-
ligence cannot be used in obviatii^ a re-
port which cannot be spread in the aation,
without ghiqg rise to discontent, damouts,
and sedition.
Those who shall be inclined to reject
the Petition, may perhaps act with no l^a
regard to the merohants^and may ptomele
their interest and their security, with no
less ardour than those who most solicitously
labour for its receptkm. Foi^ if. they are
not allowed to be heaid« it is only becauae
the public interest requires expeditioli,
aadbecause erery delay oi our pie|p(ftr»-
tions is an iz^ury to tra&.
That this is not a proper tbne for pe-
titions ^aflainst the Bill to be heard, k
universally known, and I can discover no-
thing in the Petition that vestraina it to
this particular clause, which is ao far frem
being specified, that it smears to be the
enhr part of the Bill of Which ihey Imve
had no intelligence.
Let the warmest advocates for <he Pe-
tition point out any part of it that xekitea
to this single clause, and I will eetract my
assertion; bJUt as it appean that diece^oe
133] Debate in the Conmom on the Seamens^ BilL A. D. 1741.
[134
only generd declarations of the inexpe-
dieacy.of Ae measuies proposed, and the
pemicfDaB tendency of the methods now
m use, what is the Petition bat a complaint
against the BiO, and a request that it should
be laid aside i
Hie practiee of impresses, Sir, is ^ar-*
tienlarijcensured, as severe and oppressive ;
a chaige which, however true, has no
rehitioii to thb danse, which is intended
to pronkofte the voluntarv engagement of
saims i& (he sierrice of the crown; yet it
may not he improper io observe tliat as
the praetioe of impressing is in itself very
efficadoasy and wdl a£pted to sudden
euiggeucfea, aa h has been established by
a long aucceaai'on of ages^ and is therefore
become ahnost; a part of our constitution ;
and aa St is at this time necessary to
suppljf the navy with the utmost expedi-
tion. It is neither decent ndr prudent to
compkiif too louAv against, or to he^hten
the Sacdiitent of the people at a necessary
cviL
We bare. Sir, examined every pert of
this BiD wrai the attention which the de-
fence of the nation requires ; we"" have
softened the rigour of the methods first
pnmosei^ and admitted no violence or
naiddiki that is not absolutely necessary to
make me hiw effectual, which, like eveiy
other trar, must he executed bv force, if
it be oha^ucted or opposed. We have m-
serted a great nuaober of amendments,
proposed by those who are represented as
the moft anxious guardi^s of the privi-
legea of the people, and it is not surehr to
BO puiMpe aiat the great council or the
naUOQikaa so long, and so studiously la-
boured*' "
Those whs are chosen br the people to
represent them, have miaoubtedly, Sir,
some didm as Individuals to their confi-
dence add req>ect ; for to imagine that
' httfe committ^ the great diarge of
iameDlaiy employments, that they nave
trusted dkefr liberties and dieir happiness
to those whose integrity they suspect, or
whose understamiUngs they demise, is to
ims^ne them niUch more stupid than they
have teen represented by those who are
censured as their enemies.
Bat' ihf different is the regard due to
the determinations formed by the collec-
tive wisdqtti of die parliament ; a regard
vUch oojg^t to border upon reverence,
and which Is scartxly consistent with the
least mormur of dissatkfaction.
If we areto hear the present petitioners,
a It not probable that l^fore we have dis-
patched them, we shaR be solicited by
others, who will then plead the same rights
supported by a new precedent? And is it
not possible that by one interruption upon
another, our measures may be delay ed^^.
till they shall be meSectual >
It seems to me to be of much more im-
gortance to defend the merchants than to
ear them, and I shall therefore think no
concessions at this time expedient, which
may obstruct the great end of our endea-
vours, the equipment of the fleet.
Mr. Pukeuej^ :
Sir ; notwithstanding the art and elo-
quence with which the grant of the mer-
chants' petition has l^een opposed, lam
i^ot yet imie to discover that any thing is
asked unreasonable, unprecedented, or in-
convenient ; and I am confident, that no
real objection can have been overlooked by
the gentlemen who have spoken against it.
I have spent, Sir, 35 years of my'life in
paiiiament^ and know that information has
aheays upon important questions been
wiBuigly received; and it cannot surely be
doubted that the petitioners are best abl^
to bform us of naval business, and to judge
what wiB. be the right method of recon-
dhng the sailors to the public service, and
of suppljring our fleets without injuring our
trade.
^ Their abilities and importance have been
hitherto so generally acknowledged, that
no parliament has yet refused to attend to
their opinion, and surely we ought not^ to
be ambitious of being the first House of
the representatives of the people, that has
refused an audience to the merchants.
Witli regard to the expediency of delay-
ing the Bui at the present conjuncture ;
he must think very contemptuously of the
petitioners, who imagines that they have
nothing to offer that wiQ counterbalance a
delay of two days, and must entertain an
elevated idea of the vigilance and activity
of our enemies, enemies never before emi-
nent fbr expedition, if he believes that
they can gain great advantages in so short
a time.
The chief reason of the opposition ap-
pears, indeed, not to be either the irregu-
larity or inexpediency of hearing them,
but the ofibnce which some have received
from an irreverent mention of the power
of impressing; a power which never can
be mention^ without complaint or detes-
tation.
It is not, indeed, impossible that they
may ihtend to represent to the House^ how
1S5]
14 GEORGE IL DebtOe inJki Comm«u on the Seamem^ BUL [ISS
much the «ailon are oppressed, how much
our commerce is impeded^ )and how much
the pdwer of the nation is exhausted by
this cruel method. They may propose to
^ew that sailors, not having the choice of
their voyages, are often hurried through a
sudden change of climates from one ex-
|l«me to another, and that nothing can be
expected from such vicissitudes, but ack-
ness, lameness, and death. They may
propose, that to have just arrived from the
south may be pleaded as an exemption
from an immediate voyage to the North,
and that the seaman may have some time
to prepare himself for so great an alterap
tion, by a residence of a few months in a
temperate climate.
It this should be their intention, it can-
not, in my opinion. Sir, be called either
unreasonable, or, disrespectful, nor will
Iheir alle^tions be easily disproved.
But it IS insinuated that their grievances
are properly such as affect them only as
distmct from the rest of the community,
and that they have nothing to complain of
but a temporary interruption of their pri-
vate advantaffe.
I have, indeed, no idea of the private
advantage of a legal trader. For unless,
Sir, we neglect our duty of providing that
no commerce shall be carriea on to ^e de-
triment of the public, the merchants' profit
must be the profit of the nation, and their
interests inseparably combined.
It may, however, be possible, that the
merchants may, like other men, prefer
their immediate to their mater advantage,
and may be impatient of a painful remedy,
though necessary to prevent amore grievous
evil. But let us not censure them by sus-
picion, and punish them for a crime whidi
It is only possible they may commit ; let
US, Sir, at least, have all the certainty that
can be obtained, and allow them an au-
dience; let us neither be so positive as
not to receive information, nor so rigorous
as not to listen to entreaties.
If the merchants have nothing to offer,
nothing but complaints ; and can propose
no better measures than those which they
lament; if their arguments should be
found to regard only their present interest,
and to be formed upon narrow views and
private purposes, it will be eaey to detect
the imposture, and reject it with the in-
dignation it shall deserve; nor will our
l>roceedin£s be then censured by the na-
tion, whi<£ requires nbt that the merchants
should be imphcitly believed, though it ex-
pects they snould be heard. Let us at
least have a. convention, thou^we durald
not be able to conclude a treaty.
I know not. Sir, why we have not takea
care to obviate all these difficulties, andtoi
remove the necessity of petitions, ddNOes,!
searches and impresses, by the plm and
easy method of a voluntary register ; by
retaining such a number of seamen ssmay;
properly be requisite upon sudden emer*
gencies. Would not the nation with more
cheerfulness contribute half-pay totliose
who are daily labouring for. the pvMc
good, than to the caterpillars of the laad^
service, that grow old in laziness, and otq
disabled only by vice ? .
Let ten thousand men receive daily a
small salary, upon condition that they
shall be ready, whenever called apon, toi
engfi^ in the service of the crown, aod<
the mfficulty of our naval preparations wil
beat an end.
That it is necessary to exert ounelTes
on this occasion, and to strike out soms
measures for securing the dominion of the
ocean, cannot be denied by any one who |
considers that we have now no other pre- '
tensions to maintain ; that all our influence
on the continent, at whatever expence
ffained and sujmorted, i| now in a manner
lost, and only tne reputation of our navil
strength remains to preserve us from be*
ing trampled and insulted by every power,
and from finding Spaniards in every cumste.
Sir JVilliam Yonge .-
Sir; the violence and severity of im-
presses, so often and so pathetically com-
plained of, appears to lie now nothing
more than a punishment inflicted upon
those who neglect or refuse to receive the
encouragement offisred with the utmost
liberality by the ^vemment, and decline
the service of their country from a spirit of
avarice, obstinacy, or resentment
That such men deserve some severities,
cannot be doubted, and therefore a law by
which no penalty should be enacted, would
be impenect and inefiectual. The ob-
servation. Sir, of all laws is to be enforced
by rewards on one side, and punishments
on the other, that every passion may be
influenced, and even our weakness inade
instrumental to j^e performance of oar
duty.
In the BiD before us no punishment is
indeed .expressly decreed, because the
sailors who shall disregard it, are only left
to their former hardships, firom which those
who engage voluntarily in Ute service of
the navy are exempted*
UT) DebaUmtkeComnumsimtheSianien^ BiO. A. D. 1741.
[198
Wbj 10 many remurdi and to much vuv
ieoce mould be necessarr to allure or force
^ nilon into the public service, I am
miahle to oomprehend. For, excepting
the sudden change of climates, whidimay
doubtless sometimes bring on distempers,
the semoe of the king has no disad-
nntages which are not common to that of
diemercfamts.
The w^iges in the navy are indeed less,
but then it is to be remembered, that they
sre certainly paid, and that the sailor is in
lea daneer ot loaing by a tempest, or a
wreck, Uie whole profits of his voyase, be-
cause, if he can rareserve his li&, be re-
ceives hk pay. But in trading voyages,
the seamen mortgage their wa^, as a
pecurity for their care, which, if the ship
» lost, they are condemned to forfeit.
Thus, Sir, thehaidships of the navy ap-
pear not so great when compared with
tboM of the merchants service, as they
bsTe been hitherto represented ; and I
dmdit not, that i£ counsellors were to be
besrd on both sides, the measures taken
fcr supplying the fleet would be found to
be reasouibfe and just.
Sir John Barnard rose to speak, when
Mr. Fox caUed to order, and proceeded
thus:
Sir ; it ia weQ known to be one of the
Uhdiiig and onvariable orders of this
House, that no member shall speak twice
ID a iMate on the same question, except
wbcD, fiir greater freedom, we resolve our-
lehes mto a committee. Upon this ques-
tion, the lion, gentleman has already
ipoken, and cannot therefore be heard
sgam, widioot such a transgresskm of our
orden as mnat inevitably produce confu-
BOD.
Sir John Barnard:
Sir ; 1 know not for what reason the hon*
geotkfnan apurehends any violation of the
order of thellouse ; for as I have net yet
spoken upon the present question, I have
SD ondoubted ri^t to be heard; a right
which that gentleman cannot take away.
Sir WXam Ycnge:
Sir ; I know not by what secret distinc-
te die gentleman supports in his own
^3ad this dedaxadon, which to the whole
Hook mat appear very difficult to be
tended; for we must, before we can
itm it, aDow our memories to have for-
nktu OS, and our eyes and ears to have
^a deceived*
Did he not, as soon as the Clausebefore
us was read, rise and assert the characters
of the petitioners, and their right to the
attention of the House ? Did he not dwell
rti their importance, their abilities, and
r integrity ; and enforce, with his usual
eloauence, every motive to the reception
of toe pedtion? How then can he assert
that he has not spoken in the. present de-
bate, and how can he expect to be heard
a second time, smce, however his eloquence
may please, and his ar^ments convince,
that pleasure and conviction cannot now
be obtained, without infiringing die stand-
ing orders of the House.
Mr. Speaker :
Sir ; it is not without uneasiness that I
see the dme of the House and of the pub-
lic, wasted in fruitless cavils and unneces-
sary controversies. Every gentleman ouffht
now to consider that we are consultm|^
upon no trivial question, and that expedi-
tion is not less necessaiy than accuracy-
It cannot be denied. Sir, [to sir John
Barnard] that you have already spoken
on this question, and that the rules of the
House do not allow you to speak a second
time.
Sit Robert fValpokf
Sir; I am far from thinking the order
of the House so sacred, as that it may not
be neglected on some important occasions;
and if the gentleman has any thing to urge
so momentous, that, in his own opinion,
it outweighs the regard due to our rules,
I shall willingly consent thathe shall be
heard.
Sir John Barnard: ^
Sir ; I am far from being inclined to re-
ceive as a &vour, what in my own opinion,
I may daim as a right; and desire not to
owe the liberty of speaking to the conde-
scension of the right hon. gentleman.
What I have to urge is no less asainst
the Bill in general ttian the particular
Clause now immediately under our conai-
deration, and thoudi tbe petition diould
relate likewise to the whole Bill, I cannot
discover why we should refuse to hear it*
Petitions from men of much inferior
rank, and whose interest is much less
dosely connected with that of. the public,
have Seen thought necessary to be neard,
nor is the meanest individual to be ii^ured
or restrained without bemg admitted to
ofSer his arguments in his own fiivoor.
Even the journeymen-shoemakers, one of
tS9] 1'4 GEORGE U.
A#toiire8t; classes ^Ae cxmatrMty, have
lieeft periaitted ta brmg their' coaosel to
m» baF| md remonstrale agimist the in«
«miir«nic»ees to whtdi tbey were afraid of
Mttg- subjected.
8^ ; I am tStmsy% willing to liear petiw
tioDS,, wiiea reffipectftdlj tewn up, ana re-
ffulnrly subseibed, but ean by no means
Soscorer that tibos is a real petition^ for I
. konre heard of no nwsies affixed to it, it n
Aereftfe aterpiest from nobody, anud by
rejecting it no man is refhsed. It may>
80 &r as can be discovered, be drawn up
by the gentleman who offered it, and per-
haps no other person may be acquainted
with ft.
. Mr. Hay i
Sr ; it is in my opinion necessary that
a petition in tibe name of the merdiants
of London should be subscribed by the
whole number, for if only a fbw ounild
put their names to it, how does it appei^
Ouit it is any ihing more than an appre-
hension of danger to their own particular
mteresty vMdi perhaps the other .part,
their riyals in traae, may consider as an ad-
vantage, or at least ti^uA wkh indiftr-
ence. This suspicion is much more rea^
sonable, when a petition is subscribed by
a smaller number, who may easily be ima-
gbed tohav^ partial views, ana designs
not whoBy consistent with the interest of
the pubhc.
3ir Cimle$ Wageri
Sir ; if I am r^htly informed, another
petition is preparing by sevtod eminent
merchants, that this Clause may stand as
part of the BiH$ and certainly they ought
to be heard as well astiie present petition-
erSf which will occasion great and uneces-
nsTf delays, and therefore I am against
the motion.
Mr. CkmifMl :
Sfarr I a^^e with that hon. gentleman
that if the t&ierchants are divided m opinion
upon this pomt, one side ought to be heard
as well as the other, and hope the House
wiH come to a r^lution for that purpoiBe.
Fot I AaQ invariidbly promote every pro-
posal which tends to procure the fullest
informatioii^ in all a&ixs dat shall come
before us.
Then tijie question was put. That the
fiurtber consideration of the report be ad-
DtbaH in ike Commons on the Seamenf BUL Mi
journed to the 16th; it passed in tfae (ij
gative. 1
It was Hlkewise moved* that chose
which Ihnits Seamens Wages in then
chants service at S5s, per month, be l
jected: after d^te, it passed in thei
fative: on a division, Ayes 127, "
8d. Resolved, that clause A do c
part of the said Bill.
On the Eeport the eleven cla
severity were grren up without any dmi
and a clause was added, vi^. ** ¥n§
that nothing in the BOi shdl exted
contracts for hire of seamen in voi
fVom parts beyond the seas, or to 6
Britain.**
Ordered, That the BOl witfatfci As^i
ments be engrossed. ^
March 9S. The said fiiR engroorf
read accordmg to order, ^Hien
Mr. D%i|y ixiaa aod said :
Sir; I have a dause to be offered tt?
House as nqcessair to be insert^ m]
Bill before uSy iwiiich was |Hit into
hands by a member, whom a sudden i
fortune has made unable to att^^
duty, and which, in his opinion andii
is of great importanGe, and I shall tl
fore take the liberty of readinffit:.<
it enacted that eveiy seiMnao aftoog
sdf to serve his mfges^y^, ^all, upon I
re&sed, reoeive from such capuin,
tenant, or justice of the peace, s o
ficate, setting forth the reasons fori
he is lefused, which certificate mn
produced bv him, as as exemptios ■
oeiog seiaea by a warrant of iottresa^S
iScne the reasonableness ana equiM
this pause is so inoontestaUy apM
that it will find no opposition ; for m
can be more cruel, unjust, or oppreM
than to punish men for neglect of a ■
whidi they have endeavoured to m
To what porjiose are rewards oiartu
thej are denied to those.who comM
daim them ? What is it less than m
and finuid, to force a man into the senl
who woidd "svjllingly have entered,!
subject him to hanfahips without tbej
compepc^ whic^ he may justly denj
from the solemn promises of the legidsta
Sif Charh$ Wager : I
Sir ; to this clause, whidi the gentM
has represented as so reasonable and m
objections may, in mv opinion, be etl
made, of whidi he hunself will adcn^
ledge the force. The great obstruction
DMewihe Cmmm on the SeamcMs' BUt. A, D* 1741. [148
The Ktievttices for itliiphtbe remedy is
pr^oied cmmot frequendy omht; fi)r ft
18 not |)robable that in a timi^ of xutval
preparations any man qualified for Uie
s^ndceshould befejecla(!^ smoe-tbe^eera
gaia aoliiiQg by tbeir i^06m1.
Mr, Hfly .•
Sir ; it is very ppssible that^ thosie in-
stances which maybe produced of men,
who have been impressed by one officer,
lAer Ittey faite been r^ected by -anodien
may be only the consequences of Cbe high
value which every man is read^ to set
upon his own abilities. For he that offiscs
himself^ no doubt, demands the highest
premium, though be be not an ablesulor ;
andif tejeded, and sifterwavds impnesacd
as a noviee, tlwilEs fraHs^ i^ Uberiy ta
complain wifii the most imporianate vrfie*
mence, of frauds paituuilyy and^ bppressiou*
Ilie question being put,^aa resolvad'in
tlie negscive.
Then Mr. SoutibweU ofiired a dARse»
importmg, '« That all aailars who OnmM
taice Advanoe^moB^ af liie a^rofaabls,
should be oUiged to perfinrm 'their^ agvee-' .
hSda^ bctey, or any otber inotive;
MitMrtiB% alaoe the dause which is
LjifH is k?elied, and indeed it is so
EpMoi SB eiril, that it cannot be ob-
pd vitb too BKich caution.
b this cbuue, instead of preventing
Ce oone^ondeace, and UJegal com-
moBSt i» 'A evident tendency to pro-
LthtDy by mdtiDg men to apply widi
Med oilen of aervioe to trose who
fcf»*» sobomed to f^se them, tiidn
Cineiit of i9ieir readiness, and de-
Hacotificate.
Kjabksrtifices multitudes may exempt
Bu«i from the impress whp may D9
Cs 10 be able sailors, even by taose
B«MJoct it, and nnj, under the pio*
loQ of a oerttfeate Macioudy tib*
Uhn^atdl endeavours to engage
Ek tbe public service.
K^ if tbis authority, lodged in the
ptftbosewho are proposed in the
EllsbeeDtnisted witn itybeindanget
mm oecated without due ragard to
bad for which it is granted, let it be
pd abere there is neifiier ten^ptation
HBNRtQmty to lAiuBe it. Let the ad-
done have thepower of grantme
istificates, the omcers of which will
»to judge whether the sailor is really
% the service, and deliver those
; ige or aocidents liaive disabled £rom
Rvr ofiaaproBBCs » for eorely, he that
to seive, when taken by Violence, is
s oualifi^ when he enters volun-
M he who could not be admitted
(eadered himseli^ ought not to be
siiay, ^vhen perhaps he has con-
anitber voyage.
timks Wi^er :
it is, doubtless, more proper to
tadi authority in the officers of the
* r, dian in any olher ; but it does
ar that the benefit which th^
^ Day receive from it, to whatever
jiL is entrusted, will not be over*
the injury which the puUic
lyai^er.
are fiequently levied in remote
if Ae kmgdom ; in ports where tiie
cannot speedily oe informed of
IS for which those that may pe«
eertificates have been refused,
im cannot grant them without
<£ bebg daooivnd hy .fraudulent
nients, or be nable to beti&en tipby any
magistrate or jjosdce of .the peace, and
deemed deserters, except they were in
his majesty's ships of war/' He was €e-
conded by
Lord Gage, as foHows :
Sir ;as this olawae has no^otfaeraattiapfey
than to promote Idle interest of 'the tter-
chants, without obstructmg thrpubfic pre-
parations ; as it tends only to cbnfitin legal
contracts, and facilitate that commerca
firom whence the wealth and power of \tbia
nation arisesb I hope it will saadily \m-wk
mitted ; as wemay,faTaddmg^thia/89ttetaa«
to the contracts maae between dhe vsev*
chants and saOors, in some'd^p^e, bHanetf
(he. obstructions wherewitii we have em*
barrassed trade bythe other clauses.
Sir Charles Wager :
Sir; this clause is unqueatioiiably ^ mu
sonable, but not necessary, for it iato 4Be
found akeady in an act made for the an*
couragement of the merehaats, w4iiiSh»iS
still In Ikxce, and ought whenever tb^
such frauds are committed^ to foe dgoroi^fq^
observed. , ' '
Sir Robert WaH>ole then ^eured that
the cleric might read the aat, m ^which ^n
clause bdngaocsordingly foiind,'Mr<4 SoiliH
waU sidthdif w his motKHU • - . - . '.
Then the
Billdopa«; iti
tiTe, 15S against 79.
US] 14 GEORGE 11. DOateinihe Lords on tJtmng a TMrtipke Bitt, [
at, Tbat the 12. The ordeir of the day being md
fintheaffiittia- receiving the Reports from tiie le
Committees to whom the BilisieUtio
Turnpikes were committed :
The earl of Flndhiter accordingly
ported from the Committee to whom
attempt to do. I shooM be ^iad to tee I
stored to 08. Formerlv we inserted Qi
snd Coofereiiess were beM whether we li
right to bq^n sach Bills. We receded tndi
protestations to no parpose. Then we m
ed Bills; again Cfunlerence, Receseioo^
testations of fundamental^ inherent, unds
rig[bt : but still the Commons carried
potnt In 1707 we reoeded; in 1711m
but these wers single bills and had not «j
a nnmbermighthafe carried it. Ifpeoflli
know yonr intentions from yonr dediS
they may know it from them ak^y. ;
citations have often preraibd af^ainit ti^
able amendments, for fear of a bill's bcia
jeded. Yon have nerer receded iroma
suasion of yonr having no right Thei
moot ftom the benefit of commerce will i
as much elsewbere as here. In ameodi^
will do only what you have a right to ds^
rqjeothig t&e Bill because it ' mU,
Coounons will do what they hare mj
to do. ^
AyUsford. You declare you bafs a |
which the Commons deny, and which m
not exercise. In a coronation the dm
Aquitain and Normandy is a great part 4
shew : but it is only a shew. Aboot 14 d
years ago there was a Bill to amend the I
m Warwickshire : they chose neir ood
■oners: the late Speaker Bmnley deM
to act. I was elected and do act Aodfl
commissioners may elect a peer, yonr krii
may pnt in one.
BardwUke^ C. Here are 10 or It bil
^reat consequence depending. You li^
right to amend plain Money Klls in the m
nwt And I hope you will never give I
But this is not a Money bill. In a parliil
tary sense they only are such which |
money to the crown. Money bills are fl
in their nature. This is the most OMiDtm
point that can be. But be yonr right nets
strong, never make any Amendment bat wl
it can be supported by reason : not do it beo
yon will. This is a Bill for the conluQaDC
a turnpike: the Commissioners have a pn
by it to elect new ones, and you are patfem
one. There is no instance in which sae
thing hath been done, and it is unwortb]
you to substitute youiaelves, instead of
Commissioners to whom you have riven
power. Suppose the Commons sbouid dM
a Conference, what reason will yoo givetlx
The Amendment m the Bribery ffiliim
made to assert the right of the Boise. 1
saw the other House amend a Bill meniy
the sake of anMDdhiff it I would notign
the Amendment, Audir theConunomdA
Debate in the Lords on ttUering a Turn'
jike Bill sent JromiheCrnnmoTis.*'} March
* From ike Seeker Manuscript,
March 1$. Several Turnpike Bills com-
mitted for this day.
Abingdon. Moved to pnt the dnke of Somer-
set's name as a commissioner in one of them.
Carteret, The Commons will not throw out
all these Bills for bcine thus altered. This iip-
pears upon the face of it to be a Private Bill, if
It were not for the clause tbat makes it a pnbUc
one. As a farther proof, it pays fees. And
this sort of BOb were fbst ordered to be printed
in the.statnte book about 1715. Now no Pri-
vate Bill can be a M.oney Bill. The Commons
questioned once whether we could alter penal-
ties, hut that we carried from the reason of the
ifaing. Febny is a pecuniary penalty : tfaere-
fi»re the Lorfi could not appoint that, if they
could not appoint pecuniary penalties. Never
make a dedaration of yonr right to alter these
Bills if yon do not alter them. It would he a
declaration of our weakness * quibos malis im-
* pares sumns.' Amend all or none. .
NesMistle. Do not make an umendment you
would not have thought of, merely to assert
yonr right. In 1707 an Amendment was made
u a Bedfordshire Bill and a conference had,
and the Lords receded. In 17 U, the same
thing happened again in a Bill of like nature.
One of these BiUs hath cost the parties IS or
l,aOO<. It is pity they should lose thin. They
did not know onr way of thinking : now it will
be known. Whenever you have made Amend-
ments yon have afkrwards receded. The no-
tion that we cannot alter these Bilb is of all
things the most absurd. A declaration against
it wul he a general notice.
Abingdon. Better a hardship should fiill upon
the parties than upon this House. If we have
needed, we should do it no longer. Only one
dsdaretiftn would he of service, and that wonld
net be parliamentary one, that we will not re-
ceive any of these Bflls from the Commons.
There hath not been, and probably wilf not be,
of many years, such an opportunity as this. ,
The parties concerned who desire here that we
should not amend, will desire when these Bills
go hack to the Commons, that our amendments
ahonld be admitted. There are two peers now
injthe House that have been Commissioners of
Turnpikes since they were peers.
Finlater. The House hath a right to alter
all BiUs : but the question is about the exercise
of that right. Resolve on all proper occasions to
alter hut never fur alteration's nke.
lielawar, I am sorry fbr the debate : bnt it
Is of great consequence. Since the Restoration
the Lords haire amended several Bills for Aids
totha.crown.. Thatlamafiaid yon will net
n# ja«^ »p0mhjbr a Vdf ffCnML A. J}. 1741. (MS
^murii befag tkfectad to ; 9Aw dibate :
in the negative.
; iaiittl0^ " An Ad ft^ eriargkig dM
I a»}wim gMbted h;^ an act piu^
^^ year of the re%n of hk late
f Vag Otom tile fint, intHuied,
jgi for lepalnoff and widening the
I iwHerMly Upri^ Gote, leaduig
f Beirlen Hffl, in the county of
_j^t» the top of Kingfldoirn hill^ in
r |m ef Box, in the said eounty/
nitte^;: ' That tiiejr had coneideml
iHn, and ezannned tlie allegatione
^^ffh^ they found to be true: attd
lAiCeannittee had gene throagh die
'^ lai dh^eted Mod to report the
iHAt Hooee, tridieut any amend-
ijiwai moved, to insert^in the eaid
tihg the words [** trueteee appeCnted,
pit ippeinted, to {Hit the Mud former
sent aet into eMoeufion,'']
vUMioet^ £^ and Hie meet
I duke ef Somerset^]
mair te the
maieteyon
dii erment
f eeraiy vRfl
l«b,afe
rh parti
ribiwhila. IftheerpwnaheuW
rlbrd»iafceof exwtai^, that would
Ncnr any aingle mne or body of
thiDg hy exerting power to.
Hie ouke of Iwmerset may be
r CammieaiQneri, and therefore
eaUflantthem. WheDererthelmg^e
Im il leaied, earely the Chaoodilw
I te esert it for that wamn .
iiiidahafw explained thifl fee be a
l^toaljiremedpy. For deolanUme bare
^ yi iaaftptuai. The Ceanons had
I to leod yon Money bilfe with clauses
naftare. The Lords in 1729 de-
Mmg aueh (Sauam tende lo the
I «r thb foraraamt. And yetthere
i NBt every eeation aad yeo paaa them.
M^ of the end of this parliament*
iBloe Bin in the House of Com-
Wbr may It not pass this? Either
t it « aot your pnfii^, or that yon
Ifanoe ity er de if te pOrpeee.
C.«l. Of whom bbhojNiof Glocaster,
Mbid,Brislol.
6.41.
f * fftMimitiir pfo negante.'
huieiN.C.M.
C.ia.
r ef the Hooaa of Cen—ena
ifat iSior ttM 4» BUa. came
»ibii4itds: M thai the Commeaa
ireaaat cteim er er since
, and could not possibly
\ it op, though some thingii bad passed
the Bestoratioa inadvertently that
vcreoontrary teit.
. The Kinft Speech lo hath Houseijhr a
Vote of Credit in mppoH of the Pragmatic
Sanctuntf* ondjw a Swhiefy io the Queen
Merer wew two prioees wome paired
by aatarelbrtbetraD%uitlily of £urQBe|than
his Prussiaa miyesty and tne queen m Hun-
gary. Joined to the most obstinate tenadoos-
ness of what he conceived to be his right, and
fhe most determined resdotioo in pursoing i^
his fiithf r had left him tiie richest prinee, in
leadjr naoncy, ia Borope, by wfaieh he was en-
abled ai thia lime to he^ on feet lOO^OOO maw.
Her finagariaa aunssty^ with squat lfnAcieaa4
aessandeoual ebstiaaoy, was more hanghkyf
aad littie disposed to reason upon aay pout
that ruiBed the pride of'that bouse to which she
was the heiress, which pride she inherited tO
the utmost. She was then fall both of spirits
and reeenlment, acdre in her person, aad ea-
gaging Hi her manners towards her own inh<>
je<^; and Indeed such had been the misma-
nagementa of the court of Tienna towards the
htter end of her ftrther's reign, (hat she had
now Htrte or nothing else hot the afibetlans fi^
her suhfeets to depend npon for oppeskig the
nnmerotts claimants to her territories that were
dtiiy starthig op around her. It was with gmaf
dimotty that OMue ef the eeolert heads in her
court prerailed with her and her hnshand to
give a ciril answer to the king of Pmasfai^ pro-
posals. In the answer she gave, she blamed
nim as being the beginaer of her Miamitiee^
and reproached him as breaking bis guarantee
of the pragmatic saiietion. She observed, diat
the eeosent to the diminution of her heredliavy
cooniries, was a very uaNkely method of een^i
etliating the IViendsbip of Rnashi and the mart*
time powers. 8he civilly deelined the saretoea
ef his Ptuadan majesty In fhvour ef her hne^
band at the approaching decdon of emperor,
which she said omrht to be fne^ and aeeofdktf
to the rules preseifted by the goMen hull; and
she shrewdly observed, dnt it was not usual
for one priaee to ihree another to aeeept ef
Eiey, by carrying war into their dondutuail
ihr which reason she dedhied all the peounhay
amistanoe tendered her. Lasdy, after seme
Ibrced aeknowledgments of the Ingh ralue iba
sec^pon bis Prussian mmesty's friendahip, she
iairly told him, she would net eonseat to ^uil
with one ieeh of Alcsia, aod exhorted him m
withdraw his troops from thence, as the only
means of presewmg or realoring the tranquflhqr
of the empire.-^It was whh great eeaeemthu
court of Engfond understood tfall ebsdnaey eC
her UnOgarian majesty, aodttwy would^adly
[LI
I47J UQEOBOB IL
e^HiMMfy,t:4^] AprB & The King
went to Sieiieuie of Lorai* and, the Com*
nons beinfr sent for, made the foUowing
Speech to both Houses :
«< My brds, and oentlemeii ;
** At toe opening of this session* I took
notice to you of the death of the late Em*
peror» and of my resoluti<m to adhere to
the en^ementB I am under, in order to
the maintaining of the babnce of power,
and the libertws of Eun^, on that im-
pwtant ooeasion. The assnianoes I re»
ceived fh>m you,' in return to thb commu«
nication, were perfectly agreeable to that
leal and vigour whidi this parliament has
always exerted, in die support of the ho-
nour and interest of my crown and king-
doms, and of the common cause.
** Tlie war which has smce broke out,
and been carried on, in part of the Aus-
trian dominions, and the Tarions.and ex-
tensile claims which are publidy made
on the late Emperor^ succession, are new
^ents, that require the utmost care and
iiava amde up the breach between her and
Prussia npon the footing which the latter
had proposed* ^ay, his ProMiao majesty even
had otdeted intimations to be madeattbe ceurt
of Qfitaiu, that be was ready to adtanoe open
the terms be had ofoed. His Bntannic ma-
jesty now eaw the disagreeable ^lemma into
whioh be was broiight, of either aban^JoDing
tfM interest of tha qocen of Hangary, (and
thereby incorring the imputation of aaoificing
the pngmatio sanetioa) or of di?iding himself
' — a powerfnl ally and a near rdation. He
» the Mft which prudence and honour dic-
f *' The only parliamentaiy measure in this
session which dMerrce further notice, waaihe
grant of a Subeidy to the queen of Hungary,
which finally in? olTed England in a war with
Fianea. It was undoubtedly neither consonant
to the wtahes or sentiments of the minister, who
had earnestly exerted himself to bring about an
accommodatien between Pmssia and Austria,
to- promote a measore calculated to encourage
the obstinacy of Maria Theresa, at a moment
when she eeemed waTcringand iiresolate. But
the TCice of the nation loudly echoed the un-
ceasing cry of opposition in fiiTour of Maria
Theresa. The king was alarmed for his Ger-
man dominions, the minority of the cabinet in-
clined to vigorous measures, and it was ima-
gined that a decided resClntion of parliament to
support the houee of Austria, would intimidate
the king of Prussia, and induce him. to lower
iiis terms. oCsccommodation.-^fn consequence
of tbeee prevailing sentiments, the king opened
the snlnect in a Speech from the thrcne."—
<^e'sMemoin of Sir Robert Walpele.
IM&h in ike LarA on am Mimt jf ZHaab [148
attention, as they may inTcke sU Ea«
rope in a bloody war; and,incootequeiioe,
expoee the dominions of such princei a$
shall take part in support of the Pragmatlo
Sanction, to immment and immediate
danger. The queen of Hungary has al-
reac^ made a requisition of the 12,000
men expressly stipulated by treaty. And
thereupon I nave demanded of the king of
Denmark, and of the king of Sweden ai
landgrave of Hesse Cassel, their reapecv
tiye bodies of troops, consisting of 6/)00
men each, to be m readiness to mardi
forthwith, to the assistance of her Hunga-
rian majesty. I am also concerting aock |
measures as may obyiate and diai^point
all dangerous designs and attempts that |
may be forming, or carried on m &vour
of any unjust pretensbns, to the jirejudioe I
of the House of Austria. In this coopii-
cated and uncertain state of things °^7 1
inddents may arise, duiinff the time who,
by reason of the approadiing condum
of this parliament, it may he impoaiiUe
for me tohoTe your advice and ssaiitancet
which may make it necessary for me to
enter into still Imrger expenoes for main-
taining the Pragmatic Sanction. In scon-
juncture so critical, I have thoogjht it pro-
per to lay these important conSderatioDS
before you ; and to desire the concurrence
of my parliament, in enahling ms to con*
tribute m the most effectual manner to the
support of the queen of HungSfy; the
preventing, by all reasonable meam, the
subversion of the House of Austria; and
to the maintaining the liberties and balance
of power in Europe.
" Gentlemen of the House of Commons;
*« I must recommend it to you, to grut
me such a Supply as may be requisite ior
these ends : and the just concern snd rea-
diness, which I have constantly found m
you, to make all necessary provisioDa tor
the public good and our common security,
leave me no room to doubt of the ssme
good disposition and affection in this in-
stance.
** My lords, and mitlemen ;
*< I am persuaded, I need say no more,
to recommend these considerations toyoo,
which so necessarily arise from the present
situation of afiirs: I shall therefore only
add, that whatever expenoes may be ia*
curredonthis occasioo, shall be made n
as frugal a manner as possible; andsnac-
want thereof shall be laid before the next
parliament*'*
H»3
fir,iih€Kk^t Speech.
Deiefe im Ae Lbrde on an Address ef
TktmksJ^ ike Kk^s Speetk^.-] Apnl
9l TIw Lofds having taken the king's
Speech into conttdeimqn, tsreed, after
debate^ upon the following Address :
** Most gracious Sovereign ;
** ^^e^ yonr nunesty's most dutiiiu and
luyel >ub|ect», tiie Loids spiritual and tem-
poral IB perHiunent assembled, beg leave to
* Wrem the Seeker MonuaeripU
9. C^aaderstiOB of the King's
€labsadrfe|f. It may be said we are oi
emmmmwm of BMUiyt aad sheoid go hand
haBd with Ifaeni. Bat in the two late irr
only
id in
great
war^lfcefintstepwasaiadebyBDglaDd. And
tiD we mke the kad, other powers will not
fir. Id the ble War there wert Votes of
Oefil aed Confidenoe for 6 years. And in
ir06b asoeey was votsd tonay what was dne
■asw f^ealMB flisdeortobe made. And we
the Wte Mag asierauee of seenring his
oasaiQns if attacked on aoooont of
of these nations. Motion
••To
tba
the
that we will oontribute to
of the PragmatioSaoctioo in
DominionSy ^cc'' .
Ar^yle. Ijet the Tote of Credit, March 88,
1735-4, bo read. I shall ose hot frw words,
K ail wiD have no other effset than sbew-
\ I oeom to saertfioe the interest of my
r to make my eooit. The teal power.
of the owwn is saiBaent Nor can lioerty gub-
mk wilb addfaig one giain more. Now this
■otioo adds to the crown a parliamentary
power dteinjp tbe recem. It is oes^;ned to be
pot fls^roclieo every year. And givmg money
n grasg aB. Yon bad ss good play tbe part
of the Senate of I>eomark. Eztmordinary
powem given have always ended m slavery.
IWrc never was a Voce of Credit before qoeen
and not above a or 3 then. The
tin
tbe
boplunlr spoke ont.
it eoM be sopportsd.
the bte king's
hath beai carried on with great seal
ttion. Lords io minis-
tender in speaking on
. I believe that is a
for 50 other purposes that cannot
Every honest man wishes
Ton are bound'to do it
and if that be not sufficient
Bnt this was sgreed
with others, and you are not to do
Sand sJone. The qneen of Hungary
have been much better satisfied with
enoogh to drive tbe
into the sea, bnt Ibr want of
get 10,000 of them together,
toon tcrfd. Yon shall have men
ley into the bargain. If every
bad been m befbre ns, we should have
bowthsiwaai Hsncaadohsraogood.
a: D. 1741. [IM
retiim your mijes^ obr nost huttbia
thanks, for your most gradons Speech
from the throne ; and for your 'majcety*a
l^reat attention and care for the preservai^
tionofthe balance ofpower, and Uie peace
and liberties of Europe, b which the traa*
qnillity and aecuiity of these lrin([dnBiS
are so nearly interested.
<* We cannot but express our great oMi*
■ ' ■■! - I I ■ I I III !■
It was an easy matter to have oeeored the
House of Austria in 17SS-4. Then there waa
a Tote of Credit fbr it, and we raised a fbw
more men at home and have kept them ever
since, and this was all. Will you trust monej
for supporting this House into the heads of
those who have pulled it downP Indeed, now
we cannot support the House of Austria. In
the ti^o late wars we did not declare oweelvcs!
till we made AUisnoss with all with whom wa
acted afterwards. Now all other powers either
act agvnst us, or declare they will do nothing.
OMe squadron have shewn they had not
oiders to fall upon the Frendi, but treated
them very civilly sfler some mdenem on their
side.' irwe have driven the ministry into a
Spanish war, shall we drive the people into a
Cfermaa warP Thb motion is only Ibr the
same end with the Hanover TTea^ and Bahio
Squadron. Convince the king that yon am
resolved to sssist him against every power that
shall disturb him and Britain.
CkolmondeUy. This is tbe only way to re-
trieve the Dutch. What keeps ttiem Irom re-
solving is the fear of a Stadtholder.
Nemcastle, Something of tbe natnreof Votes
ofCredit is necessary in a war, &c. • - -, were
made before, thougp there was no provision
made for them, and this was not thought so
right a way. Neither such care in the man*
ner of giving, nor such assurance of account as
now, yet then lew occssioo than now. la the
beginning of the late war a great pribce was
brought over. So it may be now. Our tveaty
with tbe court of Vienna was without aoy con-
tingency of what others would do, nor did wo'
engage to defend only all that tbe Hooae of
Austna was rightfully in possession of, but all
ii was actually possessed of. The Dutch were
admitted as orighially contracting parties, and
they obuined that the assistance ahonld bo
speciBed, which it was not before: but if that
was not sufficient, then iotU otri6as. The
Pragmatic Sanction is disturbed by the power
we could least have wished, llie Austrian
mbister asked not for money but ibr Danes
and Hessians : but 1 believe a great number
of other troopa will be Stet abroad. It is not
easy to bring the states of Holland to act a
r^t part Sn themaelvea. 1¥ben they aug-
ment» we shall be obligetl by treaty to shid our
oontingent. The Russians liave miniified their
resohitions even to France, of sUnding by the
Piragmatic Sanction. And a great number of
Russiana are now marching near the soene of
war. Though the Mag may wish the ditpote
ttl] UGBOBefin. DaaUmilml4mbmmMdf9ssof Thanh flSC
cra^ tbai • WW Im8 tokt #tt^ Md i» cai^ I w4 te wiii^
ried o«» io put of tbe Autliwi domiiiioiia s
ni w«nr« ftughly MiMible of JPW vm^
tf '• royol vrisdoiQt n Iho lomirtioD yoa
» iMieii ploMed lo 4tdir«» fir thf
itoiooco of the PM«nMitie Soxriwn,
DOW snbmsting acoo<iMa4»ttil, jfll b«
ftciM «li« ^ueeB of Uttogwjr* But if this vat-
ter were made up, the case is not deary and wa
^iist do tbe saaie thingp we do now. If wa §p
»o fariber tban oar guola tba House of Auitna
will bava iiule U» bope. Great bodief of troops
are assembliDg io placaa wbara tbay can ba of
tto other use, tbao to pat a stop to oar engage-
lAeota bj paiting tbe kiag *s dominiooa m dan*
ger. t^t AOt the kiug or bis fiunily et or bf
tempted, or suspected of being tempted^ to do
OQthiag io cases that ooocern this nation lest
dieir own domiaioDS should suffer.
Ch€sUrfield. This is a question of the grast-
eal importance that efer came before this
Bouse. I say so not of coarse, but seriously.
Aod perhaps of greater than may ever coom
before it again, if this motion ptos. lamagainsi
1^ 1« as it contains a Vote of Credit* S. on
account of the time. Votes of Credit are a
modem mioidterial invention, not known SO
years ago. And in queen Anne's time, thcara
were no Votes of Credit before the war was
antered mto, nor <tf fire years after, and the
admiDistrafiod then bad ac(}uired tbeconfidanca
of the natwn. What frait have we had fram
any Vote of Credit yet ? That in 1733 ^4* was
lo do nothing that was done, but it was in the
last ssBiion of a parliament. It was said to be
given for the House of' Austria, but they were
Qot^ the belter for it. We have above 70,000
national ti-oopa in our pay, which is more than
in the late war, and i 3,000 hired troops. These
were not raised for the war with Spain. Let
Ihe queen of Hungary have what she hath de-
manded. . But if yon support the Pragmatic
Sanction alone, yon will rum yourselves and do
nobody good. The Botcb m^ that your mea-
anres ibr pulUnir down the Hoose af Austria,
liava been so eSeolaal that there is no cure.
Yon have already strength} oftore than enough
lo do what is wanted in comuDctTon with allies,
and yoM cannot do it without It is said the
qpieen of Hungary hath demanded meo. If
M, she knows how they can come at her.
But then what is this money for ? Are yon to
buy alliances t If they are ri^ht ones they
will be approved by the next parliament. Votes
of Credit have been made and an aoconnt pro-
mised, and then secrcsy hath been ui^ed and
no actount given. Votes of Credit are safer
for ministers, and therefore were introduced,
but not safis for tbe public. The Treaty of
Hanover produced these freqaent Votes of
Credit for troops and services of oa use to Bri- .
lain. That part of the motion which relates ,
la the king's dominions, answers to np demand
in his Speech. Hiere is no more need of men-
^mg ^anorer thau aoy othec aQy* Tbe
We aantfo your mi|e8ty, tinty ■» <
ilahaB hooo— atcesaary loootoriiito still
further wiptwcaa ia ao jait a cmiao, yoor
majesty oaay depend oo oor nealoiio oad
cheerful concurreBOB^ in eaabling your
Oanviao domiaisaa ai^ not a I
popular* Tbe nation is prepossessed, |ierhaps
ton much, that they have been the occaainn of
expensive measures. Bjoing any thing to
strengthen this suspicion will make our menaures
difligsaeebli. In aManesa yen dLtoil yonr
allies or divert the enemy Irom ttmn, an well
aa you can. Now ibe Heaofanaw mm not
onrselvas, bu| ear alliaa.
Weave new g«pg 40 anew alfntiMi. Thai
spirit of the natien eadi only be brasvhl la
ohttse a parliament agieeaUe to Ibeedniasstfa-
lion by a delugeef gehL A«d this la one af
tbe exhalations thai are to form Iboeeehoweii.
Tbe queen of Hungary will base the aanattast
pari of Ibis aMmay , and il ireaay le poamie ae*
eeente, ao that out of ^ or 600^000^. eoaMthiog
may be saved for the piirpoa# of ei»cliena.
Though I am agaliisl Ibis raoiieni yeti am for
a dutiful Address to bis majesty.
Hardmiekej 0. If I did not IhioAf tbia would
be executed as a Britiah measure, nediing
should indoee me lo be fiN' it. li b mH true
that one Mdn eannel be safUy aihM to tbe
crown. 1 eonld name paavosa Ibil hmna been
Uken away and had batlsr be thoM. This is
not a Vote of Credit or Cenfidance. There
could be no Votes of Cradil lili Ibeciaoiea of
Appropriation came into aoU of jffAu
which was after the Berolutaao* The i
ters were forbidden to apply meney to any
other purposes than the s|Mcifiad purposes
there mentioned ; which they isera not fovhid*
den before. Votes of Credit atriolly are to en-
able tbe crown to contract a de)rt to ee aaiwered
by parliament hereafler, Bol this is a duaaand
of a Supply for porpoaes specified jnst as nanch
as at tbe beginning of a aasaion.«*^f yo« aay
notbieg to tbe kiag on this oecasion» all nauat
drop. Let there be ever so much help, you
must go fiurtber than your 12,000 aseo, and the
queen of Hungary may want both IrMpa and
money. It would have he«^ impro^ for the
kufi" to demand secfirity for his Jommions, bul
he nath hinted it sufficiently; andhygivinip
it, you enable him to. act witbapint. Tbe par*
liamentbath restiained ibehiofffipomyBakift^
an alliance with the elector of flanovert aa In
can with any other prince. Therefiire 1^ per*
liament sbouU enable him t0 put bia deminaons
upon a level with others. For wi^ shonld thew j
he iu a worse conditieo because he ia ear kii^?
1 have no suspicion that the money will t^ie ap-
plied to any other purpose tban tlial fiwrnch
It is ^iven* It meat beaeeoenied fi»r: and no
bromises of accoynie made firocn Ihe Ihrane
baveheephroken*
Carina. If tbisbenel doDe» ihefiieeft of
Bungaiy will throw hepelf iate Ihe m»g of
^iiheXmi^$SpB$tlu
sr» to the lumrt of Ae^^i^^^^
f s aai to ine prvmitipg, by
^ a/ iMiri*, the «BciMit a»i naliml
^if thtSriliib ciown*
^ K Wt d»k WMtveioUiStd, i^[>M this
iMiiiii, loicneir tke pnofetiiono of our
pjitfgl «J mwoUfclcfifclity ; ondio
JtitagrMit misfortiiiie that this was
eh at the bcfj^ioniiur of the seadon :
1^ of PniMla woatf DOC bare began.
llBMrbe impaled to me that I bury tbe
Imi «r igrtiia-ivilliool boi7iii|f «iy own
riiAftiaaMtlno. llMkteofPAmia
I mW, Will im kM tbo fioDMup cf
irfloreferf Tlbe loto HiiDiiler of Rawia
iffflnn^,
\ bo waa alow. Tbo {wo*
r will act. Saxony will be -•** at
B oin iecore a m^jont^ of ?ote«. Not
Itf tbe booae of Aoatha was named in
1 nea|i with no other riewa than
tbl 1 lUTO afKikcn in and out of nlaee
fOHi. A motioB woa aiade IMh of Ko-
riniftoaae tti]rliiilnMtioM:f« laaid
"** (, if tbe bn^ tbouriit it pnptr. it
ii8f» were done for tbe Haoorer
IciplaiBed tbe Act of £fettkfneat
I €0 the woolsack bath now done*
f OMbwbo proteoted on that ocoaaion, of
' fl^ are now alife. allowed there
,6re. [See their Protest.] The
afterwardo seen and approved.
»tliiBfftbaotbeTjwatjr
tiw Aotesci^libiai 00*
t4e Uof'a doMnieaa open that waa
JNlhiais aoaso ef nobody's soebitiir:
M|hia tbe emporor's deatb« Tliekii^
Mnrd all apoD it, and we sbonld stand
\ If it were another prioee wbal would
l» tbe same now. I do not look for
p hot am now on the popobir side of
QB. France is unwiffinr to draw tbe
lii^dcai^ all oodsrinnd. K tbo Ans-
niniaM opo pniesiM, Pr— ae gets
MMtinfattaoreof bnid» Wo
I If yo« willhoapyourtosoty yoo
I ct ua : Jf yo<i will not, wo aio
I ipen doings. Wo are in war with
k itiio harm: we are likdy to hafo
mat : bat better with comoany
and In ilin case wo rfian have
of Analria sink, we
1 lo]»ep «p aodblraapa in lim of
IwenHNrfUrbyAedi. Tbofuoon
If Oms yo« ^rstbor than Ffl«nflo»
I baro beeift languid «o io^.
les. I «gq)oot|;oed success ftom this
-/Ria changes in Bossia are a proof of
IffSiJL
Of wtan WsbopadF dloaeeBter,
O^lRtly dec.
4UXtl.
«80s¥slrif.«tt.
ghtyonriwilmy He ittriwigfsiM—i iinm,
tbftt» if any part of your dwiiiiioMa, al-
tbaoj^ Ml MongHg to Ao cnnra of
Groot Bri^, akonld bo attoekad or »
•uitod by oay priaeo or fwwer whataoooor,
in MBOHtoont of the jqst mA nee
meoiiuet wkioh your majoity faotli 1
otf abnU iidie» fcr wkiMiini^ tlM iVogBM.
tic Sandioiii «o amdolocmiBod tocsort
oorsohroa to Iho utmost, in defiKiiiing and
protecting ooch ddmiiuono from mxw anch
-The Kif^s Anmer.l To this Address
the King gave the foIIowiDg Answer ;
** My lords ; I thank you yery kindl v for
this most seaQon^ble and dutiful Ad(u-ess«
The true concern you shewj for tbe assi^-
ance of the queen pf Hungfiry» and tho
support of the house <^ Austria^ is very
agreeable to nie.
** The assurance you sive me^in relation
to my territories abroaa, is a strong proof
of your affection to me : and you may
depend on my making no other use of the
confidence you repose In moy them to obt
able me to act with vigour in muntainiD^
the Pragmatic Sanction, and in the pre-
servation of the balance and liberties of
Europe, and of our common interest ai^
security.**
IMoto fit Ai Ctmtmofu m on AOnm
4fThmAsJmth€Kin^9 8f€ed^.^ The
Consmooo Doittg retumod to dicir iioiiso,
Mr, duHerbuck rose and said :
Sir; tho present oonfuauHi m £arqpe,
the known aesigns of tbo Francliy tbo an*
merous claims to tbe Austiiao dominiooi^
tbe armies ^rtucb are levied to fuppert
them, and the presoot inability of Ae
^pioenofHuitfary to maintain tboneii^Hi
which descend to her from ber tmcrnkm^
and have been coofinned bv idl dio «o»
lemnity of treados, evidently re|«iio 4«
uncommon dc^^iee of atteotionsn our ^oo^
sultatioaa, ano of v%our in our
* 9famllie<
piled by Dr. ,
«« U iawaailiabK'' aaya Jfr.Ce«a»m Ui
Memoirs of Sir Robert Walpola, " that Cbw-
dJer baa omittod to asentiofi this JDebaie on a
Subsidy to tbe Ooeen of Bmigary." lllr. Coio
has here fallen into a very excusable error.
The Debate is not omitted by Chandler, bnt is
unacooantaUy made to form part of another
Debate on 4he BiH <*> For the Enoonr^gement
and Increase efSeaaMn, and for the better and
ifhialfi))ci9*liilMt»"
15B] 14 GB0B6B IL DeMe tn ike Cmmom on m Addreu of Thanh [lU
Wluil0fer vmf be the pcofiMrions of the
Fkeadi* their red dMg&s are eatQy dit-
ooeered; desigiii which* they have carried
eDi'^ther OD«il;f, or in private ibr near a
oentorjr, ana which it cannot be expected
that tiiejr will lay aside, when diey are so
near to sucoev. Their view, 9k, |ai all
their wars and treaties, allianoes and in-
trigues, has been the attainment of uni-
versal dominion, the destruction of the
rights of nature, and the subjection of all
the rest of mankind; nor have we any rea-
son to imagme that they are not equally
lealous for the promo^on of thb pernicious
scheme, while thej^ pour troops into Ger-
many, for the assistance of tneir aHy, as
when they wasted kingdoms, laid cities in
ashes, and plunged millions into misery
and want, without any other motive than
the glory of their king.
But tne French are not the only nation
at this time labouring for the subversion
of our common liberties. Our liberties,
Sir, are endangered by those equally in-
terested with ourselves in their preserva-
tion; for in what degree soever any of the
princes who are now endeavouring^ to di-
vide among themselves the dominions of
Austria, may be pleased with the ac^uisi-
Uon of new territories, and an imaginary
increase of influence and power, it must
be evident to all who are not dusled by
immediate interest, that they are only
fighting for France, and that, by the de-
struction of the Austrian famfly, they
must, in a short time, fall themselves.
It is well known, Sir, though it is not
always* remembered, that pohtical as wdl
as natural greatness is merely comparative,
and that he only is a powerml prince, who
is more poweiiul than those with whom he
am have any cause of contention. That
pffince, thermre, who imagines his power
enlarged by a partition of territories, whidi
gives nm some additional provinces, may
be s(t last disqppmnted in his expectations.
For if diis partition gives to another prince
already greater than hunself, an opnortu-
aitjr or hicreasmghis strength, in a degree
pra^orttonate to his present superiority,
the former will soon find, that he has been
iaboiuing fisr nothing, and that his danger
is stii tlw same.
Bach, Sir, is the case of the king of
Thissia, who, when he has over-run that
pait^of Germany, to which he now lays
daim, will only nave weakened the house
of Anuria, without strengthenmg himself.
He is at present secure in the posses-
sion of hil MBuaioDs^ because neither the
Anstrians woidd suAr die French, nortb^
French permit the Austrians to Inaeasi
their power by subdifinff hun. Thusi
while die present eqoipotte of power i^
maintained, jealousy and caotwn wooU
always orocure him an faDy whenever U
shoiadoe attacked; hot when, by his asl
sistanoe, the Austrian hautj diall hi
rumed, we shall defend hhn agaimtthJ
ambition ofFhmce.
While the libeities of mankind are thi]|
equally endangered by folly andambitioi^
aUacked on one side, and neglected onth^
other, it is necessary for those who foretd
the calamity that threatens them, to exerl
themselves in endeavours to avert it, d
toretard the fttal Mow, till thoie whoarl
now lulled by the contemplation of privati
adviOitage, can be awakenedinto a just c(n|
cem for the ^eral happiness of Europe
and be convinced that they themselve^
can only be secure by unitbg in the c«is^
of liberty and justice. I
For this reason. Sir, his majes^r haj
asserted the pragmatic sanctioo, and pr(^
mised to assist the queen of Hungary vit|
the forces which former treaties have en
titled her to demand from him ; for tbi{
reason he has endeavoured to rouse th|
Dutch from their supineness, and excit
them to arm once more for the comma
safety, to intimidate by new augmentatioo
those powers whose ardour, periiaps, ool
aubsists upon the confidence that the
shall not ne resisted, and to animate b
open declarations in fkvour of the house c
Austria, those who probably are only hii
dered from o&ring their assistance, b
the fear of standing alone agauut the ai
mies of France.
That by this conduct he may expoi
his domimons on the continent, to in^
sions, ravages, and die other miseries i
war, ever^ one who knows their atoatioi
must readily dlow ; nor can it be doubu
by any man, who has heard of the pov<
of the Prussians and French, that th(
may commit great devastations with vei
little opposition, the forces of the electo
ale not being sdBcient to give thembsttl
For though the fortified towns mi^ht bo
out against them, that consideratioD wi
very utde alleviate die concern of thoi
who consider the miseries of a n&tioj
whose enemies are in possession of all tt
open country, and who from their rampv
see their harvests laid waste> and the
villages m flames. The fortifications coj
tain the strengdi, but the field and Jt
trading towns con^riae die riches of
157]
S0r Qm Km^% l^peech.
people, and ihe coimliy nuqr b« rtuaed
vfa^h ia DQi subdued.
As therefore, Sir» the electoral domi*
oiottB of his mi^jestj are now endangered,
not by SDj private dispate.with the ne^h-
bouriog prinoeSt bat by his firmness in a»-
aertiog the general riffhts of Eur<qpe ; as
the consequences of hb conduct oia this
occasioDy wiD be chiefly beneficial to Great
Britain« ve ought surdy to support him in
the praiecntion of this design : a.design,
vhich we cannot but approve, sboe our
iDcestonhaTe always carried it on with-
out regvd either to the danger or the ex-
pence. *
lo coofonnity to this maxim (^politics,
so dearly founded in equity, and so oftoi
iudfied by the votes of me parliament,
hiBiDsjeity baa been pleased todedare.to
as.htt nsolutioo to adhere to his engage-
meotiy sod^ oppose all attempts that may
befoniiiDg in nvour of any unjust preten-
Bns to the prejudice of the house ot
Auitria.. It ia for this end h^ desires the
coDcuRCDoe of his parliament. I hq)e
ereiy gentleman in tois House will agree
vith me, that we ought to declare our
ipprabstion of these measures, in such
terna, m nay shew the world, that those
vho ihdl due to obstruct them, must re-
M^ to incur the resentment of this na-
<Km, and expose themselves to all the op-
K which the parliament of Great
can send fortn against them. We
oBght to pronounce that the territories of
Hffiorer will be considered on this occa-
Mo as the dominions of Great Britain, and
diat any sttack on one or the other will be
equally resented. I therefore move, << That
>D hunUe Address be presented to his ma-
P^i to return bia majesty the thanls^ of
^ House, for his most gracious, sjpeech
&«n the throne; to express our outiful
<<Dse of his mi^stv's just and due regard
for the ri^to and mterest of the queen of
HoDgaiy ; and for maintaining the prag*
BBiic aanction; to declare our concur-
'soce with his majesty in the prudent
BKsaiiea which his migesty is pursuing,
ur the support of the common cause^ and
fa[ the preservation of the liberties and
woe of power m Europe; to acknow-
ledge his majesty's wisdom and resolution,
ft not sufering himself to be diverted from
l^^siiihr penevering in his just .ourposes
« fiimlliag the engagements wnicn his
"^y m entered into with the house of
A^f^; and to assure his inajesty that,
^JittUoe and vindication of the honour
m £ffutf of the British crown, this
A. D. 1741. IIB»
House trill eliMBtual)y stand by and aop*
port his maiesty against all. iasulls and.at^
tacks which any prince or power, in i^
sentment of the ^ust meaanxes which his
majesty has so wmiy taken, shall maka
upon any of his majesty's territories or
dominions, though not belonffiii^. to the
crown of Great Britain ; and further t*
assure his majesty, that, ip any fUtura
events which may arise from this upcer-
tafai state of thinss, and which. may make
it necessary for his majesty to enter into
still .larger e^pences, this House will ena-
ble his majesty to contribute, in the modt
effectual manner, to the support of the
queen of Hungary, to the preventing,^ by
ful reasonable means, the subversion' 4if
the house of Austria, and to the maintwn-
ing the Phigmatic Sanction, and the li-
berties and balance of Europe.'*
Mr. Stephen Fox •-
Sb: the expediency, if not the neces-
mty of the Address now moved for, wOlf
I believe, be readily allowed by those who
consider the just measures wfaiich are pur-
sued by his majesty, the.eud which. is in-
tended by them, and the powers by which
they are oi^oaed*
How much it is our duty to support the
house of Austria it is not necessary to ex-
plain to any man who has heard the de-
cMiteb of this assembly* or read the history
of the last war. How much it is our. du^
to support it,. is evideit as soon as it is
known by whom it is attacked ; by the
ancient enemy of these nakrions, by the
ffeneral disturber of the universe^ by the
formidable d[|pMressors of liberty, exulting
in new acquisitions, enfiamed w^th the
madness of universal monardnr, and ela-
ted with an opportunity of*^ subjecting
Germany, by exalting to the supreme
power a prince who uall hold his autho-
rityonly by their permission.
The house of Austria, which has. io
often stood forth in defence of our com*
mon rights, which has poured armies into
the field in confederacy with Great Brip
tain, to suppress the insolence of that fa-
mily, which nothing could satisfy but
boundless power, now demands the assist*
ance which it has so often afforded; thataa-
sistance is demandedfi*omus by every claim
which the laws of society can enact, or
the dictates of nature can suggfist, by
treaties maturely considered, and solemnly
confirmed, by the ties of ancient friend-
ship, and the obligations of common into*
rest*
168] 14 GEORGE IL Debale in the CmmoMw tm ddStess of Thank [Ift
vepel 4ny taemj by whon Ihatf n^ifci
fhould be idvaded*
But beoMsd in affimrs of nich impori-
ance nothing is to be left to hazard^ be-
catise the equipoise of power, ott wbich
the liberties or almost all mankind, who
can call themsdves free, must be acknow-
Ifiig^ed to depend, ought to be radier
certain, than barelj probable; it is stipu-
lated ftrther, both by the Dutch and our*
selves, that if the supplies specified in the
first article shall appear insufficient, we
shaU unite our whole force in the drfence
of our ally, and strugde once more for
indep^deace, with ardour proportioned
to the importance of our cause*
By these stipulations, Sir, no engage-
ments have been finrmed that can be ima-
gined to have been prohibited by the act
of settlement, by which it is provided, that
the house of Hanover shall not plunge
this nation into a war, tothe st^e of their
foreign dommions, without the consent of
the parliament; for this war is b^ no
means entered upon for the particular
security of Hanover, but for the general
advantage of Europe, to repress l£e am-
bition of the French, and to preserve our-
^ selves and our posterity from the most
abject dependence upon a nation escas-
perated against us by long opposition, and
hereditary hatred.
Nor is the act of settlement only pre-
served unviokted, by reason of the present
alliance hurt by the regular concurfetioe
of the pariiament,.whidi his xnagesty hfe
desired, notwithstanding his indid^itsble
right of making peace and war by his own
audiority. I cannot therefore imagine
upon what pretence it can be urged that
the law, which inquires that no war shall
be made on account of the Hanover do-
minions without the consent of this pariia-
meat, is violated, when it is evideiit that
the war is OEUide iq)on tether motives, anid
the concurrence of the paidiameBt is so-
lemnly desired.
But such is the malevdence with which
the conduct of the administialion is ex-
amined, that no degree of integrity or
vigilancecan secure itfrom censure. When
in the present question truth and reason
are evidently on tbeur side, past trans-
actions are recalled to memoiy, and those
measures are treated with the utmost
degree of contempt and ridicule, of wfaidi
^e greatest part of .the House have npo-
bably forgotten the reasons^ and of which
the authors of theair do not always {stand
up m the defenee, because they are weary
of repeating argvsoents to those apholiite
with arcsolution never to be convfncecL
Howwdl,Sir, Ihoae by whom the ti
Bsstry isop{MMed,haiveaiicc«eded inhardei
iag their minds aoaihst the force of rsMi
is evident from their ooDattmt castMi \
psMidung in pamphlets those s^
ments which they havts found tfaeudvi
m this assenably unable to soppsrtt
practice which discovers raAer an sl
stinate resolution to obstruct the gevsH
ment, than seai for the |>rosperity of the
country, ssid which, to speak it in ,4
softest terms, seems to be suggested saa
by the desire of popiiiariCy than the loi
of truth.
Mr. Sandys :
Shr; notwithstanding the confideic
with which this motion has been <An
and defended, notwiUisCandiag^ ifae ^
cious appearance of respect to ms nutjeiq
by wfaidi it is reeommendwd, I mtt m
ashamed to declare, ttet it append lo ■
inconsistent with the trost reposed te s
by our constituents, who owe their s]ta|l
ance to the kine of Great Britaia and al
to the elector of Hanover.
It will be ui^ed. Sir, by the pe<mh
whom we sit here to represent, that tm;
are idready embarrassed with debts cos
tracted in a late war, £rom which, after 4i
e«pence of many miQions, and the deBtna
tion of prodigious multit«rdos, fh^ M
ceh^ no edvUntage ; and tiiut thsjr ■
now loaded with taxes for the siipodtt i
another, of which they perceive no pMi
pect of any happy or hobourafele c<moh
sion, of either secanty or prdfit, etik
conquests Or reprkals, and laat thg^ m
therefore bv no means willing to see theri
selves involved m any new coakAemj
by which tiwy may entail on their pMIe
rit^ Uie same calamities, and oMige tfaen
selves to haaard their fortunes abdM
happiaoss in defence of distant coimtriei
of wlBch many of them have scarce^
heard, and from which no nstaili of asiirt
ance is expected.
Mr. Horatio Walpole rose again m
said :
Sir ; though it is not necessary torefiiti
every calumny that maHoe may invao^
or credulity admit, or to answer those ill
whom it n»iy tv>asonably be cmoeWeddOi
thiex do not credit their ^WAaccusadsBitl
Will yet rise once morfe in vindicadoi •<
the treaty oC HHukoter^ to shew i^ ^
161]
Ji/r the lSng^9 Speech.
If waaieohEged' onty to support the
qoeen of Hoogaiy with 12,000 mcfn, we
kfe dreidj perfonned our epgageaients ;
if ire hife promised any pecuaiary* as-
Mtance, the sum which we have stipu-
lated to iurin^ ot^t to be declared : for
I soppoie at least our engagements have;
iome tiimti, and that we are not to exert aU
the fiiroe of the nation, to fight as if fire
au] iward were at our gates, or an* in-
vader were landing armies upon oar
I hive, Sir, firom my earliest years, been
lealoQB kt die defence and exaltation' of
thekoue of Austria, and shall be very
&rfimo proposing that any danger or dis-
lim sfaoold mfluence us to desert it ; but
I do not essOy discover by what means we
diail be able to affi>rd any efficadotis as-
istiDoe; for the power of Britain consists
dudyin natal armaments, which can be
of veiy little use to the queen of Hungary,
nd I know not any state that will easily
content to onite witn-us on this occasion.
If there be. Sir, any states remaining in
Eorape which die French can neither in*
thnidste nor bribe, we ou^t studiously
to solidt, sad diligently to cultivate their
^iendship, but whether any, except the
Roidans, are now independent, or suf-
ficieotly confident of their own strength
to engage in kich a hasardous alliance,
n^bejQidy doubted.
Ak Iste grand alliance. Sir, was sup-
P<Med St the expenoe of this nation alone,
Mvvai it requured from the odwr cqn-
fc^ierates to exhaust the treasure of their
comtn 10 the coomion cause; I hope
the debt which that war has entailed tmon
OS, wiQ aistract us to be more finigat in
oor future engi^ements, and to stipulate
"^yvhstwe nay perform without- in-
Toiving the nation in misery, which vic-
tiriei and triumphs cannot compensatew
'^ necessity, Sir, of public ceconomy
Set me to insist, that before an^ money
be gnnled, an account be laid before
^ Hoaaeitt particdar terms of the uses
tovluch it is to be applied. To ask for
^PF^ in general terms,4s to demand
^ power oi squandering th^ public
|>"iC7 St pleasure, and to oaim, in softer
"Bgiage, nothing less than deqpotic au-
tlwri^.
h flsa not been uncommon for money
Pitted hf the House to be spent without
prodndng say of those effiBots which were
^^^cted firom it, without assisting our
*^ or hoBibiing our enemies ; and there-
^ theie is reasoil ftr smpecting. diat
[VOL XII,] -TT-T-*
A. D. 1741. im
money has somedmes. been asked for one
use, and applied to another.
If our concurrence, Sir, is necessary to
increase his majesty's influence on the
continent, to annnate the friends t>f the
House of Austria, or to repress the dis-
turbers of the pid)Hc tranquillity, I shall
willingly unite with the most zealous ad-
vocates for the administration in any vottt
of approbation or assistance, not contrary
to tne act of settlement, that important
and well-concerted act> by which tne pre*
mnt 6uni]y were advanced to the tbreney
and by which it is provided, that Britain
shall never be involved in war for the en-
largement or protectibn of the domioiona
of Hanover, dominions from which we
never expected nor received any benefit,
and for wnich therefore nothing ought to
be either sulfered or hazarded.
If it should be again necessfury to form
a confederacy, and to unite the povplsrs of
Europe, against the^House of Bouiboo,
that ambitious, that resdess fiimily, by
which the repose of the worid is almost
every day interrupted, which is incessandy
labouring against the happiness of human
natmre^ and seeking eveiy hour an oppor-
tunity of new encroachments, 1 declare.
Sir, that 1 shall not only, with the greatest
cheerfidness, bear my share of the public
expence, but endeavour to reconcile others
to their part of die calamides of war.
This, Sir, 1 have advanced, in confidence
that sufficient care sliall be taken, that in
any new alliance. We shall be perdes, not
pnndpals ; that the expence of war, as
the aavantage of victory, shall be common ;
and that those who shall unite with ua, will
be our allies, not our mercenaries.
Mr. Horatio Walpole ;*
Sir ; it is not without reason, that the
hon. ^tleman desires to be iniPormed of
the stipnladons contained in the treaty by
which we have engaged to support the
praffmadc sancdon, for I find tliat ne either
never - Imew them, or has forgotten them ;
and therefore those reasonings which he
has formed upon them fall iothe ground.
We are obliged. Sir, by this treaty, to
simply the house of Austria with 1£,000
men, and the Dutdi who were engaged in
it by our example, have promised a supply
of5,00a This foroe joined tothosearmies
which die large dominions of that fiunHy
enable them to. raise, were sufficient to
II r I II ■—■ .^-^PW^I ■■ I^H- ■! !■! !■■■
^ Mr. €ox« has erroaeoosly attribotsdl tbia
aM«>b to Sir Robsrt Walpole.
x«si
14 GEORGE IL DeBaieinihetfmimmmimMSteu of Thank [M
fopel $Xky tnemj by whon thatf n^ifci
fhould be iDvaded.
But beoMsd in affimrs of nich impori-
ance nothing k to be left to hazard, be-
eatise the equipoise of power, on which
the liberties or almost all mankind, who
can Gall themselTes free, must be acknow-
ledged to depend, ousfat to be radier
certain, than barelj prwable; it is styn*
lated fiuther, both b j the Dutch and our^
selres, that if the supplies specified mthe
first article shell appeir insulicaent, we
sfaaU unite our whole force in die drfenoe
€i our ally, and strafe once more fer
independ«Qoe, with udour proportioned
to ue importance of our cause*
By these stipulations, Sir, no engage-
ments hare been finrmed that can be ima-
gined to haTe been prohibited by the act
of settlement, by which it is provided, that
the house of Hanover shall not plun^
this nation into a war, totiie wakeci^tmr
foreign dominions, without the consent of
the [Mrliament; for this war is b^ no
means entered upon for the partKular
secunty of Hanoyer, but for the general
advantage of Europe, to repress we am-
bition of the Eren«^ and to preserve oor-
^ selves and our posterity from the most
abject dependence imon a nation exas-
perated against us by long opposition, and
. nereditary hatred.
Nor is the act of settlement only pre-
served unviokted, by reason of the present
alliancfs hurt by the regular ooncurrenoe
of the padiamient,.whidi his nunes^ his
desircM), notwithstanding his indubitable
right of making peace and war by his own
authority. I cannot therefore imagine
rn what pretence it can be urged tiiat
law, which requires that no war shall
be made aa account of the Hanover do-
minions wishont the consent of this pariia-
meat, is violated, when it is evident that
^ke war is mhde npon Mier mothres, ansd
the- concurrence of the paidiament is so-
lemnly desired.
But such is the malevdence widi nHiich
the conduct of the administfation is ex-
amined, that no d^ree of integrity ^
vigilflnoecan secure ttfrom censure. When
'in the present question truth and reason
are evidently on their side, pest trans-
actions are recalled to memory, and those
measures are treated with the utmost
d^ree of contempt and ridicule, of which
|he greatest part of the House have nvo-
bably fd^otton the reasons, md^ wmoh
tile airthom of them do not ahvl^sfBtsnd
up in the defenee^ because they are weary
of TepeatBug arganenta to those wholiiteir
with aresolution never to be convinced.
How wdl. Sir, diooe by whom the ni-
UBtTT isopposed,haivesi»ooeeded inhardeD*
lag theirminds against the force of reaton,
is evident from tbeir oonatant casism of
pobhsfaing in pamphlets Aose nrpx-
inento which they have fooad tbemselres
m this assenably unable to support; ft
pnctioe which discovers rather an ob*
stinate resdution to obstruct the gsvcn*
ment, than zeal for the x>rospeiky of their
country, and which, to speak it in the
sofh»t terms, seems to be suegesled more
by the desire of popailarity ihan the love
or truth.
Mr. Sandys :
Sir; notwidistandhig the confidence
with which this motion has been ofered
and defended, notwitfastendiag^ the spe-
cious appearance of respect to his laajestv,
by whicm it is recommended, I am not
ashamed to dedare, that it appesn ta mt
inconsistent with the trast reposed in oi
by our constituents, who owe dKit allegi-
ance to the kinir of Oreat Britain and not
to the elector of Hanover.
It will be ui^. Sir, by the people,
whom we sit here to represent, that tbey
are already embanrasaed with ddits con-
tracted in a late war, IVosn which, after the
expenceof many mittions, and the destnic-
tion of prodigious multitndss, they te-
cehned no ad^tage ; and that they are
now loaded with taxes tbr the support oi
another, of which they perceive no pros-
pect of any happy or honouralble conclu-
sion, of either security or profit, eitber
conquests Or reprisals, and tnat they an
therefore by no means wiUing to see them^
selves invmved in any new confisderacyi
by whioh iktj may entail on their poster
nty Uie same oakmities, and cMige them^
Si^s to hazard their ^rtuaes 9tod then^
happiness in defence of distant coimtriesj
of which many of them have scarce!)^
heard, and from which no retwH of assist^
aaoe » expected.
Mr. HoraHo JValpok rose again and
said :
Sir ; though it is not necessary toreflite
every calunmy that malioe may invei^
or credulity admit, or to answer tho« <«
whom it may reasonably be conceived tht^
their do not treik thoir own accuaations, 1
will yet rise once more In vindicsoon ot
the trttHy oC HHukoYeis to shew with hoi^
MS]
Mt reiMn it is oensuredy to repms die
lefity of insult, and the pride of unreasbn-
dbletriBa^
The ttesir of i&morery Sir, how long
Mf er It fans beea ridicufedl, ond with what-
€fff contWBpt thoee by wImib it was vt»-
^odsted have boon trtat«d, was wise and
jttsL It was jqst, because no injiiry was
ioteaded t* anj power, no invasion was
■hnagil, na poititioii of .doiMziions stipU'^
Jited, DOthing but our own secttti^ do-
med, it was wise^ because it produced
die eni peoposed by it, and established
dMt marity wliich tiM Austrians and
Spuiiidi were endeavooring to
Tbt cBpearor of Germany, Sir, had
catered into a aecvet treaty of alliance
witb Spaia, br which nothing less was de-
sgaed than the total destmction of oiu*
ybertMs, die diminution of our commerce^
dKsiienalion of our domimons, and the
tofavrs bean eneUMI fhKD Gibraltar, and
toisBjr esdudod l^oei the Mediterranean
mm^ d» Piotsnder was to hare been ex-
aM to the tfarooe^ and a new religion,
viditha itereiy tlMt always aieoempames
ikyts haaa baoi apirodtteed amongst us,
md On^id waato hate been made a port,
ssd ts base shaved die poor remains of
ow commerce to' foteig» natioBS.
TbisaBjoBt, this nsfieioos confederacy
aiitei oppooed with the utmost Tehe-
■OBos by pvicce Eugene, whose cou*
nge sad mitltavyospacity are cele{>rated
thnwighsvt the worlds end w4iese political
M^ sad knowledge of the afiairs of
Eopo^ were equal to his knowledge of
w. He urged with great force, that
nc^ s codbderacy woM ^Ksonfte' the em-
peror far ever from the maritime powen,
Vf wfaich it had been supported, and whldk
**>*fleg^Sed by onecommon interest in
tbeproBolion of its presperity : but Us
RmoiatrBnoes availod nothing, and the d-
Sttiesameoochided.
When our ancient aySes, who had been
*> often snocoured with our treasure, and
diAaded by our armieB, had entered into
"m:^ mgagsments ; when it was stipulated
BetMlytoimporerishbutenslaTeus; not
eelyto weaken as abroad, but to deprire
« ef every domesftie comfort; when a
sd^eas wss feimed diat would faavespread
■■eiy over the whole nation, and hare
*Msd ili conaeqaences to the lowest
*te of the coannnnity, it was surely ne-
^>^>y toftaslrate it brsomeaOiance, and
^«hei»coaiawat&en«iite, butwidi
Rttee.
A.D. mi. [166
This is not tlU only ftct on which gen-
tlemen hare ventured to speak with greet
freedom without sdBeient nformation ;
dM conduct of our idlies in the late war
has been no less misrepresented than that
of -our ministers in their negaciations.
They hare been dmrged with imposing
open us the whole ekpence of the confe-
dera«7, when it may be prored, beyond
controrersy, that the annual charge of the
Dutch was fire millions.
' Nor did* they. Sir, oidy contribute an-
nually thus largely to the common- cause,
but when we forsook the allianoe, and
shamefully abandoned the adrantages we
had gained, they receired our mercenaries
into their own- pay, and expended nine
flsiliions in a single year.
Of thetmthof thesoasseMionsit is easy
to produce incontestable* eridenoe, which,
howoror, cannot be necessary to any man
wIh^ reflects, thai furore one of the most
weaMkT nations in the world, die Dutdi,
with an tiieir commerce^ and dl their par-
sioMny, are reduced to penury and dis^
ttesf ; fbr who can teH l^y mat meant
they hare sunk into thehr present low cott*
dddott, if they suffered nothmg by the
latewar?
How diis gentleman, £^, has been de-:
ceired, and to whose insfaiuations his er-
rors are to be imputed, I an^ at no loss to
discorer ; i hope he i^l by this' confuta-
tion be warned against implicit credulity,
and remember with what caution that man
is to be trusted, whose pernicious councib
hare endangered his country.
Mr. Viner:
Sir ; it is, in my opinion, an ineontesta^
Ue maxim, that no measures are eligible
which are unjust ; acid that therefore, be-
fore any resolutions are formed, we ought
to esamine not what motires may be sug-
gested by expedience, but what aigumenta
may be adranoed by equity on one part or
the other.
If I do not mistake the true intent of the
address now proposed, we are imated te
declare that we will oppose the king of
Phissift in his attempts tipon Silesia, a de^
daradon in which 1 know not how any
man can concur, who knows not the natur^
of his daim, and the kws of the empire.
It ou^t therefore. Sir, to hare been the'
first endearour of those by whom this ad-
dress has been so zealouslr promoted, ta
shew dmt his claim, so publicly explained,
so fimriy earaed, and so strongly supported,
is wid^out foundadon in justice or m rea-
ITt]
14 6EQB6E IL
ip remember that troe g^Ktitude oonrists
la real ben^fits^ ia promoting the \rue in-
terest of him to whom ^ 9te indebted ;
and sureljy by hRgarJiag ihe wel&ie of
Great Britain in defence of Hanover, we
sbali very little confult the lidvantage or
promote the greatness of our king.
It is well known how inoposideraUe in
the sight of those, l^y whom the succession
was established, lianover appeared, in
comparison with Great Britain. Those
men, to whom'evee their enemies have
seldom denied praise for kaowledee mid
capacity, and wno have been so loudly ce-
lebrated by many, who have joined in the
last address, fiur their honest aeal, and the
love of dieir country, enacted, that the
Idng of Great Britain should never visit
those important territories, which we have
ao solemnly promised to defimd, aft the ha-
zard of our nt^piness. It was evidently
their design that our sovereigp, engrossed
bv the care of Ifis new subjects, a care,
which, as they reasonably imeginedi would
arise from gratitude for dignity and power
80 liberally conferred, should in time for-
get that comer of the earth, on which bis
ancestors had resided, and act, not as
elector of Hanover, but as kii^ of Great
Britain, as the governor of a mighty na-
tion, and the lord of large dominions.
It was ^xpresdy determined, that this
nation should never be involved in war for
llie defence of the dominions on the ccmti-
nent ; and doubtless the same policy that
has restrained us from exteodii^our con-
quests in countries, from which some ad-
vantages might be received, ought to for-
bid all expensive and hazardous measures,
for the sake of tisrritories from whence no
benefit can be re^>ed.
Nor are the purposes, Sir, for which this
supply is dananded, the onlv objections
diat may be urged against it, ror the man-
ner in which it is asked, makes it neces*
sary at least to delay it. The ministers
have been so little accustomed to refusals
that they have forgot when to ask with
decency, and expect the treasure of the
nation to be poux«d upon them, whenever
they shall think it prc^r to hint, that th^
have discovered some new opporthaity of
ezpence.
It is necessary lihat when f simply is
desired* the House should be iamrmed,
aome time before, of the sum that is re*
quired, and of the ends to which it is to be
apnlied, that every member may conttder,
at leiauiVt the expediency of tw measures
preposedi and the propocties^of the sum ,
XMt^ m ike Cmiiiom on • McAm [17^
to the occasion on which k is dfemanded^
that he may examine what are the moM
pcoper meuods of raisu^ it, and perfasp^
enquire with what wiUingnem his oqbsu^
tu^ts will advance it. i
Whether any mm is enabled by
acwtencss and experience^ to determine
these questions upon mOBnentaneo
flection, I cannot decide. For mv put,
confess myself one of tbose^ on whom
ture has bestowed no such fecritirs,
therefore move that the conoideratioD
thk supply aoav be deferred for a
days. For if it be now pressed upon as,
shall vole agaiaet it, because I do not yi
fuUy dtsoaver all the reasons for it, nor all
the CQBsei|iimieeB which it may producej
and I think myadf obliged to know h^
what purpose 1 give «M»y die mooey
wUdi IS not my own. I
Mr.^ Viner :
Sir; whatever may be the neoeasi^ m
mainraining the Pnjgmatic Sancti^a, o^
whatmrer uie obligations of national pacts,!
of which I hope no man is desiroua of
countenaadiig the neglect, yet th^ can-
not oblige us toarm widmut an enemy, to
embarrass oatrselves with watching eveiy
poaaihility of danger, to garrison domiiuott
which are not invaded.
The expediency of maintaining the
house (^Austria on the imperial thimie, it
is not at present necessary to asaert, be-
cause it does not iqypear that any otherj
femily is asfuring to it. There may io-j
deed lie whispera of secret designs andl
artild madunations, whispesa, perhaps,!
spread only to affiright the court into treaH
ties, or the parliament into grants ; or de-
signs, vrhich, like a thousand others that
every day produces, innumendile sod-
dents may defeat; whidi miy be diaco*
vered, not only befote diey execoted,'
h«t before they are fi% formed; andi
which therefore are net word^ toengroaal
much of pur attention, or to exhaust thei
wealth of the people.
The Pragmatic Sanction ia nothing more
dmn a settJement of the imperial Sgnity
upon the eldest daughter of the hite em*'
peror and her soai ; and if die has no aoo*
upon the son of the second daughtsr; nor
has thecrown of Great Britain, l^engsging
to support that sanction, pMrnasd any
thing more than to preserve ^s order oi
succession, which no power at pvestst
is endeavouring to intemq»t, jsmd wbkli
therefore at present requwea no defeace.
ThedJapitte^ Sv, beCvMn ilieJdpgor
ITS] fiit « UMiiy to tkk Qufien ^ Hungary A. D. 1741.
[174
ProMt tod the qaeen of Hungary is of a
difereni kM, nor k it our duty to engage
m k, citber m parties or judges. He lavs
diim to certain territories osorped, as ne
ailegei, fivai his anoestors by the Austrian
S, and asserts, by force, this claim ;
it equally validy whether the mieen
beempieis or not* We have no right to
limit fail doovnions, or oMigation to exa-
Buae the justice of his demmids* If he is
ooly endetvourine to gain what has been
forcibly with-hdd from him, Vhat right
lM?e we to obstruct his undertaldng? And
if the wieeo can shewn better title, she is,
like ifl odnr aoTereigns, at liberty to
maintiiD it ; nor are we necessarily to erect
oanrivei into judces between sovereigns,
ordistiilnitorB of dominion.
The contest seems to have very little
feiatioB to the Pragmatic Sanction ; if the
king of Pnttsia succeeds, he will contribute
tosupport it; and if the queen is able to
frestrate hiB designs, she will be too pow-
er^ to need onr assistance.
But though. Sir, the Pragmatic Sanction
««re in du^^ of violation, are we to stand
op aloae m defence of it, while oUier na*
tioas, eqaaUy engaged with ourselves by
itterst sod 1^ treaties, sit still to look
opoQ the contest, and gather those adven-
ts of peace which we indiscreetly throw
>»ST? Are we aUe to maintain it without
ttHtaice, or are we to exhaust our coun-
br^aadnrin our posterity in prosecution
of a hopeless nroject, to apend what can
Kverberepaia,and to fism witfi certainty
ofidefcatr
ihe Dutdi, whose engi^^ements and
^iHKe 'ntecests are the same as our <iwn,
hare not yet made any addition to their
<^pnces,nor augmentation of their troops ;
DOT does a single potentate of Europe,
^ever uniteff by long alliances to the
Howe of Austria, or however endangered
by revohlioos in the empire, appear to
'«»e at the approach of alarm, or think
'^^tteif obliged to provoke enemies by
'^oahe ia not yet injured.
1 cannot theraore persuade myself that
*We to itand up single in the defence of
^ l^iig«stic Sanction, to €ght the qaar-
^ <^ others, or live in perpetucd war, that
vvrneiffhboors may be at peace.
Jthifi idways think it my duty to dis-
"sae the piAwc money with the utmost
1*»nooy, nor ever intend, but on the
"^ presnng necessity, to load, with new
^oBs, a natiob already -overwhehned
^ d^isa, himaised with taxes^ and
P't^wiVy a Standing Army.
For what purpose these numerous forcea '
are maintained, yrho are now preying on
die pnlilic ; why we increase our armies
by land when we only fight by sea ; why
we aggravate the burthen of the war, and
add domestic oppressions to foreign itiju-
ries, I am at loss to determine, ^nraly
some regard should be had to the satis£tc-
tion of Sie people, who ought not, during
the present scarcity of provisions, to be
starved by the increase or an army, which
seems supported only to consume them.
As therefore part of our present expenc*
is in my opinion unnecessary, I diall not
contribute to anravate it by a new grant,
for purposes o« which I cannot discover
that they wiU promote the advantage of
the public.
Sir Robert Walpole.*
Sir; the Pragmatic Sanction, which we
are engaged to support, is not confined toi
the preservation of the order of succes-
sion, but extends to all the rights of this
House of Austria, which is now attacked,
and by a very formidable eneniy, at H
time of wealmess and distraction, and
therefore requires pur assistance.
That others equally obli^ by treaty
atad by interest to lend their help on thn
occasion, sit unactive, either through cow-
ardice or negligence, or some prospect of
temporary advantage, may, perhaps, be
true ; but is it any excuse of a crime, that
he who commits it is not the only crimi-
nal? Will the breach of futh in others ex-
cuse it in us ? Ought we not rather to ani-
mate them by our activity, instruct them
by our example, jmd fm^aKen them by our
representations i
Perhaps the other powers say to them-
selves, and to one another, why should we
keep that treaty which Great Britain is
violating? Why should we expose ouf-
setves to danger, of which that mighty na-
tion, 60 celebrated for courage, is afraid >
Why should we rush into war, in which
our most powerful ally seems unwillhig to
support us f
Thus the same argument, an argumetit
evidently^ fidse, and made specious only by
interest, may be used by 2ul,li]l some one*
more bold and honest than the rest, diaa
dare to rise in vindicatidn of those rights
which all have promised to maintam. And
why.should not the greatest nation be the^
first that shall avow her solemn engage-
ments ? Why should not they be most d!?
ligent in the prosecution of an af&ir who
haw most to lose by its miscarriage f
175]
14 GEORGE IL
Dehate m ike Con^mns on a Moikfi^
I am alvrays willing. to believe, that, no ^
member of tliis House makes use in any
solemn debate of arguments which do not
appear rational to himself; and yet it is
difficult to conceive that any msm can
imagine himself released from a promise,
because the qame promise is broken by
another ; or that he is at liberty to desert
his friend in distress, because others de-
sert him, whose good offices he has equal
xea^on to expect, and that the more his as-
siatance is heeded, the more right he has
to deny it.
Surely such arguments as these deserve
not^ need not a confutation. Before we
regulate our conduct by that of others, we
must either prove that they have done
right, which proof will be a sufficient de-
fence without the precedent, or own that
they are more capable of judging than we,
ana that therefore we pay an implicit sub-
.mission to their dictates and example ; a
sacrifice which we shall not willingly make
to the vanity of our neighbours.
In the present case, it is evident, that if
other nations neglect the performance of
their contracU, they are guilty of the
breach of public faith ; of a crime, that if
'it should generally be imitated, would dis-
solve society, and throw* human nature
into confusion, that would change the
most happy region into desarts, in whidi
one savage would be preying on another.
Nor are they only propagating an ex-
iunple, which in some distant times may
he pleaded ariiinst themiselves, but they
are exposing themselves to more immediate
dangers; they are forwardin^^ designs that
have no tendency but to their ruin ; they
are adding strength to their inveterate
enemies, and beckoning invasion to their
own frontiers.
Let us therefore, instead of hardening
ourselves in perfidy, or lulling ourselvea in
seci^ri^ by their example, exert all our
influence to unite them, and all our power
to {usist them. Let us shew them what
thev ought to determineby our resolutions,
ana teadb them to act by our vigour ; that
if the boose of Austria be preservedy our al*
liance maybe strengthened by new motives
of gratitude ; and that, if it mi&t be that
the liberties of this part of the world be
lost, we may not reproach ourselves witb
having neglected to defend them.
vMr. Henry^ Pelkam :
Sit; it isnottobe supposed that sudi mem-
bers of this House as are not engaged in
public affidrsi should reoeive very axactin- .
t«
telUgeiice of the dispositions of Ioim
powers, and therefore 1 do not wonderi
the conduct of the Dutch has beeo sup
presented and that they are soipectei
neglecting their engagements at a ti|
when they are end^vouriog to peiSs
them.
The Dutch have now wider coa
deration the most proper niethodgo(|
sisting the queen or Hungary, aad ig^
taining the rragmatic Sanction ; it niM|
indeed justly suspected from the naluip
their constitution, that their iftotioofla
be slow, but it cannot be asserted, thtttb
break their engagements, or desert tki
confederateis.
Nor is there any reason for ima^
that the other princes who have mom
the same obligations, will not endeiVB
to perform their promises ; it may I
easily conceived that some of tliemarftt
able, at a sudden summons, toaffnd^
assistance, and that otliers may wait|
result of our deliberations, and tt^
their conduct by our example.
Not ihat we ought to neglect oor <
gagements, or en<knger our couDtiVfl
cause other powers are either peifidii
or insensible ; for I am not afraid to i
dare, that if that should happen, vU
there is no reason to suspect, if all |
other powers should desart the defena
the Austrian line, should consent to n
the Pragmatic Sanction, sind leave theqiR
of Hungary to the mercy of hear eneoil
I would aavise Uiat Great Britain ak
should pour her armies into thecontine
that she should defend her ally against i
most formidable ' c<mfederacy, and il
mankind an example of constancy not
be shaken, and of faith not to be noln
li it be therefore our duty to lopp
the Pniffmatic Sanction, it is now the ti
for declaring our resolutions, wheal
imperial crown is claimed by a multiti
of competitors, among whom the elec
of Bavari{^ a verj powerfiil prince, i
by his minister, notined his pretensiooi
the court of Great Britain.
The afident alliance between thispiii
and the French is well known; norcan
doubt that he will not now implore d
assistance for the attainment of the tbn
to which he aspires ; and I need not i
wliat may be expected firom an
whose elevation was procured by the f
of France.
Nor is this the only prince tiiat da
the iaq[»erial crown upon plausible (
tenoei, or whose daima other poiraaa
tflf j f^ a Snkufyto the Qjueen qf Hungary. A. D« 1741.
[178
to n^^porl-; it n well known that
the Spanish monarch belierea himself
' ' lo ity nor can we, who hare no
lication with him^ know whether
ile faai not dedared, to all the other
of Europe^ hia rcaohition to assert
entitled
k It is far from being impossible that the
anlCDBODS of the house of Bourbon may
t remedy and that though no- single
^aee of that fiunily should attempt to
Most the imperial throne, th^y majr all
IPM^iie to dismember the empire into
;f«ltj kisfldoms, and free thenasenres from
Hie dnsdof a fbraudaUe neighbour, by
cnctu^ a xnmAet of diminutive sove-
fi^ who majr be always courting the
^iMtnce of their pratecton, for the sake
^knanngesch other.
Hum win the House, by which Europe
hitherto protected, sink into an
one, and we. shall be left to stand
i^aijut all the powers that profess a
religion, and whose interest is
to that of Great- Britain.
h ooght, indeed, to act with the utmost
when wei see one of the most
of the reformed princes, so far
.^ of the interest of our religion, as
^co-operate with the desi^ €^ France,
i-io intent upon improvmg the oppor-
i^ of distressing the house of Austria,
Its Delect the common cause, and ex«
IS hioMelf or his posterity to the danger
!tscnminga dependent on the house of
for this reason I cannot asree that our
j^ thoiigh numerous and burdensome,
^ister than the necessity of a&irs re-
~~' :.if we cast our eyes on the continent,
is to be seen but generaf confusion,
il armies in motion, the dominions
e prince invaded, of another threat-
tl^ tumults of dmbition in one place,
a panic sttUness in another.
will be the event of these com-
wfao can discover ? And how can
IK know what may determine the course
.d that flood of ^wer, which is now in a
|Me of fluctuation, or seems driven to
Iffacntpomts by difierent impulses? How
fJNia may the Dutch see their barrier at-
ddted, and csU i^on us for the 10,000
E which we are obliged to send them ?
toon may the house of Austria be so
ned as to require all our power for
[ilimiervation I
^ Ilist we are to leave nothing unat-
I ^wyed for the security of our own reli-
i f^ and. liberty^ will easily be granted,
[VOL. XII.]
aod» thetefore^ unless it can be proved
that we may be equally secure, though the
house of Austria be ruined, it will necessa-
rily foUow, that we are, widi all our power,
to enforce the observation of the Pragma-
tic Sanction.
This is not an kct of roraantip genero- '
sity, but such as the closest attention to
our own interest shews to be necessary; in
defending the queen of Hungary we de-
fend ourselves, and only extinguish that
flame, by which, if it be suffered to spread,
we shall ourselves be cbnsumed. The em-
pire may be considered as the bulwark of
Great Britain, which, if it be throwri
down, leaves us naked and defenceless.
Let us therefore consider our own
danger, and remember, that wtiile we are
considering this supj^y, we are delibe-
rating. up<m nothing less tlum the £ate of
our country. .
Mr. PuUeney :
Sir ; I am on this occasion of an opi-^
nion different from that of the hon. mem-
ber who spoke the second in this debate,
though on most questions onr judgment has
been the same. I am so far from second-
ing his proposal for delaying the consi-
deration of this supply, that I think it may
justly be enquired. Why it was not sooner
proposed ?
For the support of the house of Austria
and the assertion of the ' priupnatic sanc-
tion, no man can be more zealous than my-
self; I am convinced how closely the in-
terest of this nation and that of the Aus-
trian family are united, and how nouch
either must be endangered by the ruin of
the other, and therefore, I shall not delay,
for a single moment, my consent to any
measures that may re-establish our interest
on the continent, and rescue Germany
once more from the jaws of France.
I am afraid that we have lost part of our
influence in the neighbouring countries,
and that the name of Great Britain is lest
formidable than heretofore; but if reputa-
tion is lost, it is time to. recover it, and I
doubt not but it may be recovered by the
same means as it was at first obtamed.
Our aftnie? may be yet equally destruc-
tive and our money equally persuasive.
We have not yet Siuffered, amidst aD
pur misconduct, our naval force to be di-
minbhed ; our sailors yet retain their an-
cient courage, and opr fleets are sufficient
to keep their dominion of th^ ocean, and
prescrine limits to the commerce of every
nation. Wliile this power remains uninif
I79J
U GEORGE IL
IMate h fhi CoMmnt on a Mttim
[I
paired, while Great Britaih rettdns her
natur^ Buperiority, atidaiBderts thie honour
of her flftg in every climate, we cannot bc-
conie despicable, nor can toy nation ridi-
cule our inenaces or scorn our alliance.
We may still extend our influence to the
inland countries, and aWe those nations
wfafich we cannot invade.
T6 preserve this power, let us watch
oveir the disposal of our money ; money
is the source of dominion ; those nations
may be formidable for their affluence which
are not considerable for theirnumber^;
and by a negligent profusion of then:
wealth, the most powerftil people may
languish into imbecOity, and smk into
cot\tempt.
If the grant which is ndw demanded will
be sufficient to produce the ends to whidh it
fenroposed to be applied, if we are aissnred
01 the proper application of it, I shall
agree to it without hesitation. But tliooffh
It cannot be affirmed that'the sum now de-
tnainded is top high a price for the liberties
of Europe, it is at least more than ought
to be squandered without effect^ and we
ought at least to know before we crant it
what advantages may be expected from it.
May not the sum demanded for the sup-
'^KMTt of the queen of Hungary be employ-
ed to promote very difierent interests I
May it not be lavished to support that
power to which our grants have too long
contributed^ that power by which our-
selves have been awed, and the adminis-
"tration has tj^annized without controul ^
If this sum is really intended to support
"the queen of Hungary, may we not en-
ouire how it is to be employed for her ser-
vice ? Is it to be sent her for the payment
of her armies, dnd the support of her
court ? Should we npt more enectuallv se-
cure her dominions by purchasing with it
the friendship and assistance of the kitig
of Prussia, a prince, whose extent of do-
*minions and numerous forces make him
-not more fbrmidable dian his personal
qualities.
What may be hoped, Sir, from a prince
of wisdom and courage, at the head of
110,000 regular troops, with eight mil-
lions in his treasury ; how much he must
necessarily add to the strength of any
party in which he shall engage, is unne-«
"cessary to mention ; it is Evident, without
proof, that nothing could so mucli contri-
Dute to the re-estabHshment of the house
of Austria, as a reconciliation with 'this
teighty prince, and that to bring it to pass
would be the most effectual method of
servinfg the tknfortunale ulueM €tttk i
quires our assiitanee.
Why #e ihouid despair, Sir^ ofmicft
reconciliataDii I cannot peMifriv^; a i
conciUation e^uallv condudte to i
reid intefeflt of bbtfi parties. It may ^
proved^ with very little difficulty, to I
sing of Pmiisia, that he is now assisti
th^se with whom interests mcompttiM
and reUgiohs irreconcilMe, Yme 1
him at variance, whom he can net«ri(
prosperous birt by a diminution of \
own greatne^, and who will always pi
ject his ruin while they are enjoying II
advantages of his victories. Vve M
easily convince him, that (jteir power w
soon become, by his assistance, such as 1
cannot hope to withstand; and abew*frd
the examples of other princes, bow dd
gerouis it is to add to the strength of i
ambitious neighbour. We may ^ew U
how much the fate of the empire h sd
in his hands, and how much more ^diM
and more advantageous it will be to pii
serve it from ruin, than^o contribute to I
destruction.
If, by such argumenfts. Sir, this pom
monarch can be induced to act st^Syl
defence of the common cause, we titf
once more stand at the helid <$f a Pjrol^
tant confederacy, that may contitKft il
views and -repress th6 ambitipn of tt
house of Bodrbon, and idter their scbeii
of universal monarchy into expedients ft
the defence of their dominioris.
But in transacting these aflairs, li^ tl
not englige m any intricate treaties, Vwi
amtise ourselves with -displaying our tifll
ties for negooiation ; ncgociation, that fiM
art which we have learned as yet veiyirt
perfectly, and which we Inive never M
temiptea to practise but to our own M
While we have beep entangle in fedM
disquisitions, and retarded by artful dd
lays, while our commissaries have bea
debating about what was only deniec
to promice controversies, and enqimiiii
after that which has been hid from diet
only to divert their attention from otltfi
questions, how many opportunities loM
been lost, and how ofben might we \aett
secured by war, what was, at a mudi
greater expence, lost by treaties ?
Treaties, Sir, are the artillery of m
enemies, to whidi we have nothing to op*
pose; they are weapons ofwhich we too*
not the use, and which we can only ese^
by not coming within their reach. Ibow
not by what fatality it- is, that to treat «ntl
to be cheated, are, with -regard to Britaiu,
ITt] /or a Suisufy to the Queen qf Hungary. A. D. 174L
[17d
anbiDe tofvpporlr; it is well known diat
eren the Spuuni monarGh believes himself
entitled toil, nor can we, who ha^e no
commuDioation^ with him, know whether
be has not declared, to all the other
priiicee of Europe, his resolution to assert
his clsim.
It 16 far from being impossible that the
prateBSODS of the house of Boorbon may
be remedy and that though na single
priaoe of that fiimily should attempt to
mooiit the imperial throne, they ma^ all
conepite to dusmerober the empire into
petty kincdoms, and free themsmes from
the dieidof a formidaUe neighbour, by
eredog a manber of diminutive sove-
ic^ who majr be always courting the
awstsDce of thnr protectors, for the sake
of hanasNBgeach other.
Thoi win the House, by which Europe
hs been hitherto protected, sink into an
empty name, and we shall be left to stand
alooe agsipfit all the powers that profess a
<ii&reiit reli^on, and whose interest is
opposite to tmit of Great' Britain.
We ought, indeed, to act with the utmost
ngoar, when we see one of the most
^erfiil of the reformed princes, so &r
iorgetfiil of the interest of our religion, as
toco-operate with the desi^ of France,
aad 10 intent upon improvmg the oppor-
tunity of distroKBing the house of Austria,
tt to neglect the common cause, and ex-
pose hioaaelf or liis posterity to Uie danger
of becoming a dependent on the house of
BoQibon.
For this reason I cannot agree that our
anoy, though numerous and burdensome,
a prater thui the necessity^ of a&irs re-
qunei: if we cast our eyes on the continent,
Botbins is to be seen but generaT confusion,
povertul srmiea in motion, the dominions
of one prince invaded, of another threat-
^9 the tumults of dmbition in one place,
udt panic stillness in another.
Wbst wfll be the event of these com-
oMtions who can discover i And how can
ve know what may determine the course
of tbat flood of 'power, which is now in a
(^ of fluctuation, or seems driven to
^Arentpobtsbydifferent impulses? How
looQ may the Dutch see their barrier at-
tacked, and call upon us for the 10,000
on which we are obliged to send them ?
How soon may the house of Austria be so
^fcsied as to require all our power for
»ts preiervation ?
^ we are to leave nothing unat-
^^>Bpted for the security of our own reli-
P^ <ad^ UbertVy will easily be granted,
[VOL. XII.]
and» therefore, unless it can be proved
•that we may be equally secure, though the
house of Austria be ruined, it will necessa-
rily foUow, that we are, widi all our power,
to enforce the observation of the Pragma-
tic Sanction.
Tliis is not an kct of roraantip genero- '
sity, but such as the closest attention to
our own interest shews to be necessary; in
defending the queen of Hungry we de-
fend ourselves, and only extinguish that
flame, by which, if it be suffered to spread,
we shall ourselves be cbnsumed. The em-
pire may be considered as the bulwark of
Great Britain, which, if it be throwd
down, leaves us naked and defenceless.
Let us therefore consider our own
danger, and remember, that while we are
considering this suwly, we are delibe-
rating, upon nothing less than the fate of
our country.
Mr. Pukeney :
Sir ; I am on this occasion of an opi<-
nion different from that of the hon. mem-
ber who spoke the second in this debate,
though on most questions onr judgment has
been the same. I am so far from second-
bg his proposal for delaying the consi-
deration of this supply, that I think it may
justly be enquired, vVny it was not sooner
proposed?
For the support of the house of Austria
and the assertion of the pragmatic sanc-
tion, no man can be more zealous than my-
self; I am convinced how closely the in«
terest of this nation and that of the Aus-
trian &mily are united, and how much
either must be endangered by the ruin of
the other, and therefore, I shall not delay,
for a single moment, my consent to any
measures that may re-establish our interest
on the continent, and rescue Germany
once more from the jaws of France.
I am afraid that we have lost part of our
influence in the neighbouring countries^
and that the name of Great Briu^n is lest
formidable than heretofore; but if reputa-
tion is lost, it is time to .recover it, and I
doubt not but it may be recovered by the
same mepms as it was at first obtame<L
Our ohnieB may be yet equally destruc-
tive and our money equally persuasive.
We have not yet miffered, amidst aD
our misconduct, our naval force to be di-
minbhed ; our saUors yet retain their an-
cient courage, and our fleets are sufficient
to keep their dominion of th^ ocean, an^
prescrioe limits to the commerce of every
nation. While this power remains unim^
CN] -
183] U GEORGE IL DeAaie on a Subiidg to th& Qfitem qf Hungary. [ia|
Let us not add to the miseriesof famine
the mortifications of insult and neglect ;
let our countrymen, at least, divide our
care with our allies ; and, while we form
schemes for succouring the aueen of Hun-
gary, let us endeavour- to alleviate^ nearer
distresses, and prevent or pacify domestic
discontents.
If there be any man whom the sight of
misery cannot move to compassion, who
can hear the complaints of want without
sympathy, and see the general calamity of
his country without employing one hour
on schemes for its relief: Let not that
man dare to boast of integrity, fidelity or
honour; let him not presume to recom-
mend the preservation of our faith, or ad-
herence to our confederates ; that wretch
can have no real regard to any moral ob-
ligation, who has forgotten those first du-
ties which nature impresses ; nor can he
that neglects the happiness of hb country,
recommend any good action for a good
reason.
' It should be considered. Sir, ibkt we
can only be useful to our allies, and for-
midable to our enemies, by being unanimous
and mutually confident of the good inten-
tions of each other, and that nothing but
a steady attrition to the public wel&e, a
constant readiness to remove grievances,
and an apparent unwiUingness to impose
new burthens, can produce that unanimity*
As the cause is therefore necessarily to
precede the effect ; as foreign influence is
the consequence of happiness at home, let
us endeavour to estabhsn that alacrity and
security that may animate the people to
assert ^thetr ancient superiority to other
nations, and restore that plenty which may
raise them above any temptation to repine
at assbtance ^iven to our allies.
No man, Sn*, can very solicitously watch
over the welfieire o£ his neighbour, whose
mind is depressed by poverty, or distracted
by terrOT, and when the nation shall see
its anxious for the preservation of the
^een of Hungary, and unconcerned about
the wants of our fellow-subjects; what
can be imagined, but that we have some
method of exempting ourselves fi'om the
common dbtress, and that we regard not
the public misery when we do not fed it >
Sir Robert Walpole :
Sir ; it is always proper for every man
to lay down some principles upon which
he proposes to act/ whether in public or
Iprivate ; that he may not be always waver-
ing, uncertain, and irresolute i that his
adherents may know wbat they are to c»
pect, and his adversaries be able to t«|
why they are opposed.
It is necessary, Sir, even for- his owi
sake, that he mav not be always atrog^
with himself; that be may Imow his o«i
determinations, and enforce them by Ai
reasons which have prevailed upon mm ti
form tiiem ; that he may not argue in dii
same speech to contrary purposes, aai
weary the attention of nis hearers will
contrasts and antitheses.
When a man admits the necessity o
granting a supply, expatiates upon th
danger that ma;|^ be produced by ietardiB|
it, (Glares against the least dday» bov
ever speciouuy proposed, and inforcestlii
^guments which have been already oAra
to shew how much it is our duty and is
terest to allow it ; mny it not reasonsUj
be imagined that he intends to promo^ it
and is endeavouring to convince Uiem t
that necessity of wnich he seems himNi
convinced ?
But when the same man proceeds ti
display, with equal eloquence, the prenni
calamities of the nation, and tells, to faoi
much better purposes the sum, thus ds
manded, may be applied ; when he dwdi
upon the possibility that an impolitic m
may be made of the national tressure
ana hints, that it may be asked ibr oh
purpose and employed to another, whs
can be collected firom his harangue, hm
ever elegant, entertaining, and pathetien
How can his true opinion be disooversdj
Or how shall we fix such fugitive ressoa
ings, such variable rhetoric ?
I am not aUe, Sir, to discern, why trati
should' be obscured ; or why any msi
should take pleasure in heaping togethe
all the arguments that his knowledge msj
supply, or his imagination suggest, agaioi
a proposition which he cannot denv. Ns
can I assign any gopd purpose that on
be promoted by perpetual renewals of de
bate, and hy a repetition ^ objections
whidi have m former conferences, on th
same occasion, been found of little force.
When the system of afiairs is not fiiBj
laid open, and the schemes are in part in
known, it is easy to raise objections for
mideble in appearance, which perhaps cas
not be answered till the neoessity of se
erecy is taken away. When any geoeni
calamity has fallen upon a nation, it isi
very fruitful topic of rhetoric, and msy h
yety pathetically exaggerated, upon i
thousand occasions to which it hss bob9
cessary relation^
mi M f M«M^.<<; tihfi Qii«cii ^Uv^ru. A. D. 1741. '
[18?
?«jg of ||i» yin» sjgnificftion \ i^irdol
?>t^ i^ 1^ obfiervatipD, tq fup^rse the
characters <» particular j^eraon^ \ for trea-
titf, b| vliQiB^oey^ oinied Q^, ha^e en4ed
alwaya with the aame aucceas.
It is tine, therefore, to know, at lengt)^
our veakfiefa and our at^eneth, and \q re-
solre BP lofiger to put oura^ea yq)i^tarily
imo (be power of our ei^iqiea : piir trpppii
kave (Afaya been oiir abjeat n^pciatprs,
«nd to ttan it ly^ t^, for the moat part,
necesaiy at last to refer our cause.
Let OS tji^ aivmra pr^a^irye our mardal
char^fileib and n^^t the j^rai^ of poli-
tical coqiHog; % qualj^ which, I believe,
ve jiull n^ver attain, and whi<4^, if we
could obtain, would add nothioff to our ho-
lOBr. IM it b^ the practice of Qnliona to
daciar« their r^polutiopB without r^a^erve,
aod adbcre |o them \^ oppoaition to dai^-
pen; let thfip be ambitiOMS of no other
elogiff thsn tl^a«^ which o^ay be gaped by
\a$^ ^ -coMH^^ f^or will uey thep
erer find tli^ir alliea diffident, or their en^-
m% cAatttppjtttous.
By ieG9rering and afaettiqg thii chfl*
ader, we may pecon^e once ippre the ar-
bita? of £iii«f>e, and be courted by all thiB
Prot^ftaatpiTWisiifi their protectora; we
n^ once mqre aubdue the ainbition of the
l^pnig F^oh, and once more deliver
tkemiBe oS. Auatria from tf)e incs^pafuit
praiit of IJMe realleap eneoiiea*
TlieMNMB9 of ihctt. illuatrioua family.
Sir, hii aly^ra /mp^tfed to. me, since I
iftMMthert»te pf £uropp,the uAvariable
iitMWt of ikie Britiab nation, and pur ob*
ligatioiia to support it, on thia |iarticular
ocoM^have afipeiMiy beenauffici^tly ex-
[ihiDei
W])eace it jurpceeds. Sir, that t^oae who
•ovioa^irioil^ly ^^povvie the Auatrian in-
tovt, baiebeen so pli^Aly foigetful of it
OQ other pQcaaioqs, t ^upoot determine.
Aat treaties have been niade y^ little
to theaivaDtage ipf that &oaily, and that
itepwiai hftve be^ aufiered to insult it
fiAoot eppesitiiPB, is w$A Igoow^i, nor was
n kog agp om it was debated in thi^
<loQ«, wholiier .any pooey shpuld be lent
X^tkhteea^ieror.
NopuUic or private cbaracti^r can be
*W<vtsd, 90 appqay, fiir, can be intimi-
w^aor any iam^ confirmed in his ad-
^■^^ttoe, bat 1^ % steady and consistent
<*(Klact, by proposing in all pur actions:
2>diCDds as may b^ pp^y avowed, and
t^pcnuii^^^ without r^grd to tem-
ftwy mv^mim^^ 9t petty obstad^es.
Swfa oDndact, Sir, I woidd gMly ce-
8
commend on the preaei^t ocfs^n, on
which I should ))e far frop advisipga faint,
an irresolute, or momentary asBiat^ce,
such supplies as declare diffidence in our
own etre^gtli, or a- mean inclination to
please contrary partiea at the aame time,
to perform our engagementa with the
queen, and continue our friendship with
rraf^ce. It i^ ip my opinion, proper to
espouse our ally yeith the spirit of a natipi|
that expecta hpr deciaiona to tie ratified^
that holda the balance of the world in her
hapd, and cap bestow conqpeat and eju-*
pire at her pleasure.
Vet, Sir, it cannot be flepied that many
powerful reaaons jpa^ be birought ag||insi
any new occasion of^ expence ; nor la it
without horror and aatonishment that any
man, converaant in political calculationa,
cfui copaider the enormous profuaion of the
national treaaure. In the late dreadful
confusion pf the world, w)ien the ambition
of France had aet half the nations of the
earth on flame, when we sent our armies
to the contment, and fought. the general
qi^irnel of j^tiiapkind, we p§jd 4unng th^*
reigns of king William, apd his great sue*
ceaaor, reigna of which every summer waa
distinguished by some ipiiportaut actiop
but four millions yearly.
But our preparations fpr the presept w^»
in which scarcely a single ship of war h^
bepn tajken, or a sin^e fortress l^d ip
ruins, have broug^ upon the nation an ex-
pence of fiye unions. So much more arp
w^ now obliged to pay to ampse thp
weakest, than formerly to subdue Uie moft
powerful of our enemies.
Frugi^ity, which is always prudent, is,
at this tip;ie. Sir, vikdiapensible, when war,
dreadful as it ii^ may be termed the lightest
of our calamities, when the seasons have
diaap|>9iB^ted us of bread, and an pniveraal
scarcity afflicts the nation. Every day
brings M« accounts from different p^u;!^ ^
thj^ pppntxy, and eve^ account is a nevf
pvidpncp of the gener^ calamity, pf the
WWit of efppjpyja^ent for the ppor, and ita
Apppssary qpnsequence, the want pf food*
lie tli^ is scarce able to preserve him*
fpU*, cannot be expected to assiat others ;
noF is that money to be granted to foreign
powprs, which is wipitpd for the suppoit df.
our fellow-subjects, who are now languish-
ing with diseases, which unaccustomed
hardships, and unwholesome provisions
have brought upon them, while .we pre
providing against distant dangers, and he-
wailing the distresses of the house of Aua*
tiia.
183]
14 (SEORGE IL DOaie on a Suitkfy io ike Q^m tfHmigarg. [184
Let us not add to the miseries'of famine
the mortifications of insult and neglect ;
let our countrymen, at least, divide our
care with our allies ; and, while we fonn
schemes for succouring the aueen of Hun-
gary^ let us endeavour- to alleviate- nearer
distresses, and prevent or pacify domestic
discontents.
If there be any man whom the sight of
misery cannot move to compassion, who
can hear the complaints of want without
sympathy, and see the general calamity of
his country without employing one hour
on schemes for its relief: I^t not that
man dare to boast of integrity, fidelity or
honour; let him not presume to recom*
mend the preservation of our iaith, or ad-
herence to our confederates ; that wretch
can have no real regard to any moral ob«
ligation, who has forgotten those first du-
ties which nature impresses ; nor can he
that neglects the happiness of his country,
recommend any good action for a good
reason.
It should be considered. Sir, £bkt we
can only be useful to our allies, and for-
midable to our enemies, by being unanimous
and mutually confident of the good inten-
tions of each other, and that notiiing but
a steady attention to the public welwe, a
constant readiness to remove grievances,
and an apparent unwillingness to impose
new burthens, can produce that unanimity*
As the cause is therefore necessarily to
precede the eflfect ; as foreign influence is
the consequence of happiness at home, let
us endeavour to establisn that alacrity and
security that may animate the people to
assert ^their ancient superiority to other
nations, and restore that plentjr which may
raise them above any temptation to repine
at assistance ^iven to our allies.
No man, Snr, can very solicitously watch
over the wel&re of his neighbour, whose
mind is depressed by poverty, or distracted
by terror, and when the nation shaU see
iis anxious for l&e preservation of the
Sueen of Hunffary, and unconcerned about
ie wants of our fellow-subjects; what
can be imagined, but that we have some
method of exempting oursdves firom the
coDootton^tress, and that we regard not
the public misery when we do not feel it ?
Sir Robeti Walpole :
Sir ; it is always proper for every man
to lay down some principles upon which
he proposes to act/whetiier in public or
private ; that he may not be always waver-
mg, uncertain, and irresolute; thai his
adherents may know wliat they are to ex-
pect, and his adversaria be aUe to teO
why they are opposed.
It is necessary. Sir, even for hig ovn
sake, thathemav not be always straying
with himself; that he may Imow hu own
determinations, and enforce them b^ the
reasons which have prevailed upon him to
ibrm diem ; that he may not argue in the
same speedi to contrary purposes, and
weary the attention of ms hearers with
contrasts and antitheses.
When a man admits the necessitj of
mnting a supply, expatiates upon the
danger that may be proauced by retarding
it, (feclares asainst the least delay, bow-
ever speciousljr proposed, and inforces the
arguments which have been already ofiered
to shew how much it is our dut j snd in-
terest to allow it; tasty it not reosonably
be imagmed that he intends to promote it»
and is endeavouring to convince them of
that necessity of ^ch he seems himieif
convinced ?
But when the same man proceeds to
display, with equal doquence, the preseat
calapaities of the nation, and teOs, to how
much better purposes the sun, thus de-
manded, may be applied ; when ke dwells
upon the possibility that an impolitic nse
may be made of the national treasure;
and hints, that it may be asked for one
purpose and employed to another, what
can be cbUected firom his harangue, how-
ever elegant, entertaining, and pathetic?
How can his true opinion be discorered?
Or how shall we fix such fiigitive reason-
ines, such variable rhetoric ?
I am not aUe, Sir, to discern, why truth
should be obscured ; or why any man
should take pleasure in heaping together
all the arguments that his knowledge inay
supply, or his imagination suggest, aga^t
a proposition which he cannot deny. ^^
can I assign any gopd purpose tbst can
be promoted by perpetual renewals of de-
bate, and bjr a repetition of objection^
whidi have m former conferences, on toe
same occasion, been found of little force*
When the system of affidrs is not fully
laid open, and the schemes are in part un-
known, it is easy to raise ©bjectians for-
midable in appearance, which perhaps cao-
not be answered till the necessity of se-
crecy is taken away. When any general
calamity has fallen upon a nation, it is *
very fruitfiil topic of rhetoric, and may w
very pathetically exaggerated, upon «
thousand occasions to whidi it haa none*
oessary relation^
m
HfeDCot met tl Weitmiitttetr. The KiMg
^ leated on tin; throne, adorned wHh
k crovn and x«gal oimflMuents, and at-
^■ded vitb li& officers of state, com-
iBided ttie genUeman usiier of the black
U, to let fbe Commond imoWi It is hk
Meeimg of the N\m PariiammU * A. D.' 1741. flQd
tnajesbr's jpkaiure, Uiat they attend hini
kntnediatefy, m this House.
Who being conte; the Lord Chancdlot
said:
<< My lords and gentlemen,
<^ I have it in commaDd from his ma*
ih tort cAect io Scotland, that he
Ibecibrts of Ims biolher» the earl off lhiy>
»M long maoaged the interest of the crown
Ihtt^Qsrter ; and the majority of Scottish
Ukts, who had formed a rttong phafaax in
larflffMeniiDent, ware now ranged on the
Itnry tab. These aoqaisHioDS were oonsi-
ad W Sffosition as a sareooien of success ;
^IMsgloa, ia a letter to the duke of Ar-
I dittw a ooBii|iarative statement of the
\ irfHh ia iha fotore jiarliameat, highfy
Ida tathemioisianal party. He justly
that a migorii^ of' sixteen, whioa
t that the most sanguine friends
coald entertain h<^p«s of forming
|( esaDOMiiuaoient of the session, would
ne a minority. He laid down a plan
andattaok which was wiiely formed^
executed, the homogeneous parts were
Med, and the whole pfaahmx, howerer
JKi sad disooidant in other respects, nsoved
to one great ol^eot, the reomval
c$»icorred, in the present
j^tsMUder the efforts of Walpole for se-
a nffictent majority in the new narlia-p
He had continued so long in
Vthat many, like the sul^iedls of the
a \oa^ raiga, pined for a new ad-
fraaa m, mere desire of ohaage.
dreams of future splendour and
which'were to beaos oa the nation, '
aihemiaisterwasreaBoved; that minister,
fVissQrled the father of corruption, who
iioeaKd of sqaaodering the public money,
sf Awriag from the plunder of his devoted
rtry, neh immense riches as no indiridual
crer before amassed; who alone prevented
ippreswm of numerous taxes, the aboU-
I the national debt, and obstructed those
of reform, whidi were to restore credit
to the king and parliament. Bis
la pteihioe a new aera, the revrval of
age; ajtmetianofall parties wasto
isee, and the sovereign, instead of being
lief of a sect, was to become at once the
of bis people, and to reign in the hearts
aDbjec^. These notions were indus-
cirealated, and greedily swallowed by
' popukce, until his removal became
of nathmal concern,
po^ar clamour for a war with Spain
m violent, that the resiitance of the
-was deemed a shameAil puSitfanimity
of natibual honour, and becatne
theme of satire aod contumely,
Ifitoe and rhyme. *« Sir Riibert Wal -
"is Burke justly obserres, ^'^ was forced
war ia 1T89, by the people, who were
r»- ■»-
hiAamed to this measure, by the most leading
peKticsaBS, by the ilrst'oraters, and the greatest
aeelB ef the tines. For that war Pope sung
nis dying neles. Per that war Johnson, in
more energetic strains, employed the Voice <^
his earlv genius. For that war Glover distin-
guished himself in the way in which his merit
was the most natural and happy. The crowd
veaifily fbllowed the politieians, in the cry for
a war which Shreatened littie Uoed^ed, v^
whidi promised vlcteries, that were stttended
with sortKlhiag more sotid than glory. A war
Willi Spam was a war of plander."
'< Bat even those who acted mWk hhn la-
bowed to nndermine h» power. Wilmington
Wished his downAn, tmstiag ^lat if that event
should take place, he should succeed as flnft
lord of the ti^easury. He caballed with the
principal leaders of opposition, and in a letter to
Dodington, congratulated him on his suceess
hi the elections of Melcomb and Weynrontb,
against tbe<»ndid8tes supported fay the rotnisv '
ter. INewcastle, who mtd hitherto acted an
nnder-part^ aspired to be leader of the Whfgs,
and flattered himself that on the remond Of
Walpole, a considerable addition of power
would be placed in his hands; He had even
made clandestine overtures to the duke of Ar-
gyle, which had been^dtsclosed to the minister.
*^ The minister was also greatly embarrassed
with theoonduct of foreign affiiirs, on which he
was not always eoofidenUally consulted. The
negociation which settled the neutrality of Ha^
norer, was begun and nearly concluded, not
only without his approbation, but almost with^^
out his knowledge. The first positive informa-
tion he received of ft, was a private letter from
the king, which was deKveied to him in the
presence of the duke of Neweaslle, to whom '
ne never disclosed the contents. He was ap-
prehensive lest the nation should impute to him
a measure so extremdy unpopular. He com -
plained that lord Hamngtou, the secretary of
state who attended the kin^ to Hanorer. had
not given earlier notice to the cabinet of Eng-
land, and he told a foreign agent, that theneu-
tiality of Hanover was compulsory, and could
not aiTect England. On mature reflection^
however, he appreciated the necessity of the
measure, and though dissatisied with the com •
menoement of the negociation, approved and
sanctioned its conclusion.
« Every means was now employed to tra-
duce his character. The most calumnious re*
ports were invented ^nd diffasted. It was ru-
moured 'that admiral Haddock had Orders to
avoid meeting and intercepting the %anish
transports carrying troops to Italy, fbr the ]jur-
pose of taUtig possession of Toseabyv P^uma,
191]
15 GEORGE II.
iMt ^Ae Hottte afOmmaiu.
c«
jesty, to acquaint you, that he is pleased
to defer declaring the causes of calling
this parliament, tiu there shall be a Speaker
of the House of Commons. It is, there-
fore, his majesty's pleasure, that you^ gen-
tlemen of the House of Commons, do im-
and Placentia, for Doo Philip, under the gua^
rantee of fingUad. E^eD such wild and ab-
surd fictions, that he bad betrayed to Fleury
and Patinho, the projected operations against
Spain, and that he^receiFed from those minis-
ters large remittances to bribe the parliament,
were aadacioosly adranced, and confidently
bdie?ed.
*< The minister had been no sooner forced into
the war, than the mode of conducting it became
an object of obloquy and censure. Violent mur-
murs were diffused throughout the nation,
grounded on the ill success of the war, the loss
of the commerce witli Spain, of which those who
forced the minister to commence hostilities most
loudly complained; the neutrality of Ha-
noTer was represented as inconsistent with the
dignity and interests of England, and falsely
imputed to him. To these immediate causes
of complaint were added apprehensions of fu-
ture oFils ; the conclusion of a dishonourable
peace with Spain was said to be in agitation, of
which the basis was to be the ' restitution of
Gibraltar and Minorca; the aggrandisement of
France, the abasement of the house of Austria,
the establishment of the elector of Bavaria on
the throne of the empire, who would always
remain attached to the bouse of Bourbon, and
the guarantee of Parma to Don Philip, which
would be a shameful breach of the guarantee
of the pragmatic sanction.
^' The minority by which the motion to re-
move him was rejected, the death of sir Wil-
liam Wyndham, and the retreat of Bolingbroke
into France, rendenrd him indolent, and in-
spired him with too much confidence in the
support of the king, and in the strength of his
friends. * flis success on this occasion,' as a
contemporary pamphleteer jusUy expresses
hiuiself, * threw him into a lethargy of power.
He imagined that the breach between the
Whigs and the Tories was too great to be re-
nair^ during the time of electing a new par-
liament ; he thought that it would daily become
wider ; he seems to have mistaken the motives
which induced the Tories to act as they did, and
Ibrmed too favourable a iudgment of t^e tem-
per and spirit manifested by the people^ on that
unjust motion. He gave them time to recon*
cile this temporary ebb, and suffered the popu-
lar opinion against him to flow back again with
increasing violence.'
** While the minister laboured under this
pressure of great unpopularity; whil^ he was
arraigned for the peasures of others, of which
he was accused of bein|f the sole director;
while the cabinet was divided, and the support
from the crown so feeble ; the exertions on the
aide of go? emment were inadef uate to the vi-
mediatdy repair to the place where i
Commons usually sit, and there choose
fit person to be your Speaker; and tl
you present the person who ahali be
chosen, to his m^csty, here, for his ro
amrohation, on Friday next, at two of i
ock.'*
Then his majesty was pleased to retii
and the Commons withdrew.
List fjf the House of Commons.*] 1
following is a List of the Membeit of i
House of Commons :
gorouft efl^Mls made by oppoiitioo. TbelVi
and Jaoobitss were' reconciled with the ij
fected Whigs, and all united to deonliAi
common enemy. Letters from the ?mi
were circulated among the Jscobttfes sail
Tories, exhorting them to use all tfieir li
for the purpose of effWsting the disgnee «|
Robert Walpole; and soch was the tempa
the people, that fais fall became the opeser
eret wish of all parties." Cote's W9ij4K
• << It was thought about this time, fkA\
numbers and weight of property in tbeHs
of Peers, were too disproportioned t» tM
the Commons; andconsequentiythsttbel
portanoe of a peerage was too gfeat, tnl^
of the House of Peers too small. His mai
ever sinoe his aoeession to the throae, hadl
be remedied for the future, and tint ibee
stitution in that respect should be k9^
nearer to its first principles. Three ooimasl
therefore bad been made peers this waM
Mr. Bromley was made lord MeBtM»'i
Stephen Fox lord Ilcbester, and Mr. Hi
lord Ched worth ; all of them men of propa
and their persons so unexceptionable, that, e
in that period of discontent, their crealiooii
with general applause." Tindal.
*' By the best judgment I can form xS
list of this present paiHiament, and 1 barec
mined it very carefully, we appear to be
strong, that 1 think we can but just be ci
the minority ; and I am very sure that sue
minority, well united and well conducted, mi
soon be a majority. But ' Hoc opos hicb
* est.' It will neither be united nor well c
ducted. Those who should lead it will mak
their business to break and divide it ; aod tl
vrill succeed. I mean Carteret and Piiltai
Their behaviour for these few years has, in
mind, plainly ahewn their views and toeir
gociations with the court : bat, surely, tl
conduct at the end of last session puts 1
matter out of all dispute. They feared e
the success of that minority, and took can
render it as inrignificant as posaible. 1
they then not be much more apprehennn
lis] LiH rfihe House hfC<mmo^s.
A List OF THB ftoUSi OF COMMONS
IN THE Ninth Parliam£nt of
Grbat Britain, which met at
Westminstbr, Dbcembbr ly 1741.
BEDroftzMOiEE. Sir John Chester.— Sir Roger
BwigOTDe.
Mfard. Samnel Ongley ; died, no new
wiit ordered.-^tr Boteler Chemocke.
fimiemi. Peoyston Powney.— -^Winch.
flowird Packer; died, a new writer-
dend, Nov. 18, 174a.^Henry Pye.
IFiiiiof . — Henry Pox ; made a lord of
Ai o. mi.
tm
tbc MKCH of this ; and will not both their
■Mritaad their reward be much the mater for
deMagitr If you willtell ma that they ought
DtbcrtD ifiti theoMBlves of these nambers, and,
It the bcsd of them, force their way where
tbej ire ao impatient to go, I will agree with
joa, that in prudenoe they ought ; but the fkct
u, tbnr reason qaite differeiitly, desire to ffet
ia, witn a few by negodation, and not by tTc-
tory with numliers, who they fear might pre-
sQiDenpoD thttr strength, and grow trouble-
noe to their generals.
■^ On the other hand, sir Robert must* be
ibincd St our nombers, and must resolve to
ndueetbcm before they are brought into the
Ui He kaowa by experience, where and
bow to tpply for that purpose; with this dif-
fcnscsioly, that the nambers wiU have raised
tbeDnoe,whichbemuslcomeapto. And this is
<11 toe friiit 1 expect from this alroog minority.
Yos will poanUy ask me, whether all this is in
tW power of Carteret and Palteney ? I answer,
ys; in the power of PoUeaey alone. He has
I peiMwai loiu^oce over numy, and an in-
tn«ed iaIlQsnee over more. The silly, half-
*itte^ seslous wlugs eonnder htm as the only
uppoit of whiggism ; and look upon us as
nniisg headlong into Bolingbroke and the
tonei The interested whigs, as Sandys,
fiaibogt, and Gibbon, with many others, are
IS ifflpatieot to oome into court as he can be ;
ud, penoided that he has opened that door a
i^e, will hold fiist by him to squeeze in with
ho, sod think they can justify their conduct
tB the public, by following their old leader,
coder the colours' (though fatse ones) of
vkigipfina.
** What then, is nothing to be done ? Are we
^ fft it op tamely, when the prospect seems
nnir? No ; I am for actinia, let our numbers
k whit they will. I am for discriminatiug,
and making people speak out ; though our
nimben should, as 1 am convinced they will,
bsm cowiderably by it. Let what will hap-
pn, we cannot be in a worse situation than
6it we have been in for these last three or four
y«tn. Nsy, I am for acting at the very be-
f imiDg of the seiisioos, and bringing our num-
Wn the first week *, and points for that pur-
pose, 1 sm sure, sre not wanting. Some occur
to ne now, many more w ill, 1 dare say, occnr
lYOLXlL]
the treasury, and a new writ being
ordered, Dec. SI, 1743,he was re-elect-
ed. Then made secretary at war ; and
aheir writ being ordered, May 27, 1746,
be was re-elected. — Lord Sidney Beau-
clerk ; died, a new writ ordered, Nov.
S8, 1744.— Lord George Beauclerk.
Reading. William Strode.->Jobn Bla-
grave.
WailmgfortL Jolm Banoe. — John Rush'
Abingdon. John Wright.
BvCKDfOHAMSfllRB.
Lowndes.
Buckingham.
Rich. Greoville. — Ricbw
George Denton.— George
to others ; and many will, by that tinfte, pre*
sent themselves.
** Por example, the court generallr proposee
some servile and shameless tool of theirs to be
Chairman of the Committee of Privileges and
Elections. Why shouM not we, therefore,,
pick out some whig of a fair character, and^
with personal connections, to set up in opposi*
tion ? I think we shoold'be pretty stronspupon
^is point. But as fbr opposition to their
Speaker, if it be Onslow, we sballbelrai weak;
he having, by a certain decency of MWaviour^
made himself many personal fnends in the mi-
nority. The affair of Carthagena will of course
be mentioned^ and there, in nw opinion, a
qnsation, ttid a trying one too, or oensiire, lie»
very fair, that the delaying of that expedition
so lale last year was the principal eause of our
disappointnnent. An address to the king, de-
siring him to make no peace with Spain, un-
less our undoubted right 'of navigation in the
West Indies, without molestation or searicb, b#
clearly and in express words stipulated, and
till we have acquired sodde valuable poesession
there, as a pledge of the performance of such
stipulation : such a oueation wouM surely be •
popular one, and distressful enough to tb*
ministry^
^ I entirely agree with yon, that we ought
to have meetiugs to concert measures some
time before the meeting of the parliament ; but
that I likewise know will not hafipen. I havja
been these seven years endeavouring to bring it
about, and have not been able. Fox-huntinar»
gardening, planting, or indifference, having al-
ways kept our people in the country, till the
very day before the meeting of the parliament.
Besides, would it be easy to settle who shoukl
be at those meetings ? If Pulteney and hia
people were to be chose, it would be only in-
formiDg them beforehand, what they should
either oppose or defend ; and if they Were not
there, their own exclusion would in some de-
gree justify, or at least colour their conduct
As to our most flagitious House, I belijeve you
agree there is nothiog to be done in it ; and for
aiich a minority to strug^^le with such a ma-
jority, would be much like the late king of
Sweden's atucking the Ottoman army at S«li«^
der, at the head of his cook and butler,
CO]
196}
15 GEOBfiE II.
Lia
GreoTiUe ; made a lord of the adaftinhy ;
aiid a new writ being ordered, Dec. 39,
1744, he waa re-elected.
Vhijtping Wicomb. Edrnwid Waller;
made oofferei* to bis mneaty; and a
new writ being ordered, Deo. SS, 1744,
lie waa re-el^;ted.-*-Harry Waller.
Aylahury, WHliam Tiac. PctcrsiMUi.—
Chas. Pilsworth.
Agmondetham. TlKiaias Gore; aiade
commissary -general of the muatet;^ ; a
new writ ordered, Feb. fll, 1746. He
was re-chosen for Portmnoath.T-Sir
Henry Marshall ; lord jnayor of Lon-
don 1745.->-William Drake.
Wcndaair. John Hampden .-^Ralphfiso.
Fermanagh; created earl Vemey in
the kingdom of Ireland.
Great' Marlaw, Sir Thomas Hoby ; died,
• new writ ordered, Nov. S7, 1744.—
Samuel TuffneU.— Will. Ookenden.
CAMBRiDGEiBiRE. Soomo Jonyns.— Samuol
Shepherd.
Univ. af Cmnhridge, Edward Finch;
made one of the grooms of hiam^esty's
bglchamber, and a new writ bemg
4Mered, July 13, 174S, he was re-
elected.—Thomas Townshend.
Tnm of*Camkridge. Thomas vise. Dup-
plin*; made one of the oommtssionerB
of trade* and plantations; and a new
writ being ordered, Nov. 18, 1746, be
was re-elected.— Jamee Martin ; died,
a new writ ordered, Dee. S8, 1744. —
Christopher JeafTreson.
CuKSHiRE. Charles Cholmondeley. — • John
Crew, Jan.
Chetter, Sir Robert Grosvenor. — Sir
Charies Bnnbnry; died, a new writ
ordered, April 16, 174«. — ^Phil. Henry
Warburton.
Cornwall. Sir John St Aubin ; died, a new
writ ordered, Nov. 27, 1744.— Sir Wil-
liam Carew ; died, a new writ ordered.
^ '* These are difficnities, the insurmountable
difficulties, that 1 foresee ; and which make me
absolutely despair of seeing any good done.
However, I am entirely at Uie service of you
and the rest of m;^ friends who mean the pub •
lie good. I will either fight or run away as you
shful determine. If the duke of Argyle sounds
to battle, I will follow my leader ; if he stays in
Oxfordshire, I will stay in Grosvenor square.
I think it is all one which we do as to our
House ; your's mnst be the scene of action, if
action there be ; and action 1 think there
should be, at least for a time, let your numbers
be what you will." Lord Chesterfield to Mr.
Dodingtbn, dated Spa, September 8, 1741.
See Coxe's Memoirs of sir R. Walpole, vol.
«,p,579. ^ ' '
qfOe Hmue tfCmm^Vi^. [196
I Marck 15, 1744.— Sir John Molo-
worth.— Sir Coventry Carew.
Launcnton. SirWilliamlrby.— Sir Will
Moriee.,
Leskard. Charies Tiekwiity.
LestwiHiel. Sir R. Salusbuiy CottoD.
— Sir John Cross.
Truro. Charies Hamilton ; Clerk of the
houshold to the prince : made receirer-
jj^nera) and collector of the rcTenuei
m the island of Minorca, and a new
writ bemg ordered, Dec. »9, 1743, be
was re-elected. — James Hammond ;
equerry to the prince ; died, a ntw
writ ordered, June 10, 1749.— Edwtrd
BoBcanpen.
Bodmyn. John Laroche.—- Thdmas Blad-
worth ; groom of tke bedehamber to
the prince of Wales.
• Hebton. Francis Godolnhio, nephew (o
the late earl of Godoiphin.— Thomas
Walker.
Saltath. John Cleveland ; clerk of the
checque io the navy- office, Plymouth,
made a commissioner of the navy ; tod
a new writ ordered, April 13, 1745.-
Stamp Broeksbank.— Thomas Corbet.
Camelford, Will, earl of. locbiqeio.-
Charles Montague ; aaditor-geofrtl to
the prince of Wales for the couoty of
Cornwall.
Wmilow. Sir Charles Wager; fint lord
of the admiralty, made treasurer of the
■avy ; and a new writ' betog ordered,
Dec. 16, 1749, he was* re- elected, aod
died ; a new writ ordered, Dec. S,
1748. — ^Benjamin Keeae; a eommif-
sioiMir of trade and plaotatioDs, made
pajmaster of divers aonnal bonnties
and pensions ; and a new writ beio^
• ordered, Dec. 29, 1744, he was re-
elected .-—John Frederick.
Orampound, Daniel Bootie; made com-
missary geDftral of the musters ; aod
a new writ being ordered, July 13,
1742, he was re-elected. — W^illiaoi
Banks.
Eaftlow. Jas. Buller.— Francis Gashry ;
joint secretar^r to the treasury, and
secretary to sir -Robert Walpole, a«
chancellor of the excheqaeri
Fenryn. Edward Vernon; made bis
election for Ipswich ; a new writ or-
dered, Feb. 14, 1743.— John ETelyo.
George Boscawen.
Tregony. Thomas Watts ; prothoootary
of the court of common pleas. — ^Henr}'
Penton ; under secretary to the duke of
Newcastle, oo^ of the principal s^-
taries of state. — George Cooke ; made
auditor of his ro^'esty^s duchy of Corn-
wall ; sod a new writ being ordered,
June.lB, 1751, he was re-elected.
197]
Iju^^A^ House ^Cammom*
A. D. 1741.
[198
Olio. FMler.^HiiAiftrd Liddel ;
not daly rttarned, but bad leare to
MtflM.— John Sdbine. — Christopher
Tower ; jDOt dnhr deeted.-— Thomas
Fotior^m ■Richard Liddel ; died, a new
writ ordered, Jane 36, 1746.— William
Bretoo.
Su i9€U John Bristowe; depnty-go-
Tonor of the South Sea Company .—
Gregory Beake; lieateDaot'Oolonel of
his majesty's royal regiment of Horse
Goards.
F«ney. Jonathau Rashleigh.— William
mrdonr ; died, a new writ ordered,
July %4p 1746.— Geonge Edgocumbe.
St. Germans. John Hyiid Cotton.—
Jasaes Newsam.
St. Miekael. John Ord; died, a new
writ ordered, Oct. 29, 1745.— Edward
Clive ; made a baron of the exchequer,
a new writ ordered, May 2, 1745.— -Sir
Edward Pickering.— ^ir Rd. Lloyd;
one of his majesty's counsel at law.
Kevpott. Nicholas Herbert.— Thomas
Si.Mmi. Robert Nugent— JamesDong-
las ; eomptcoUer of the household lo the
priaoe.
CsUimgUm. Cha. Hor. Walpole; usher
of the ezeheoner -, third son of the earl
of Orford.— Thomas Coplestoue.
Cmmhrhmd. 8v James Lowther.— Sir
. JoBCBh Pennington; died, anew writ
■ ' Dee. 10, 1744.— Sir John
Corlitfe. Charles Howard; groom of
Ike beddlainher lo his majesty .--John
fitanwix; not duly dected.— John Hyl-
tsn ; died, a new writ ordered, Nov. 18,
ir46. — John Sianwix; lieutenant -co-
lonel of a regiment of foot.
Cockermouth. Wm. Finch,— Johd Mor-
daont f colonel in the Foot Gatfnis,
and e^nrry to jjgp majesty.
DommB.l£f Wm. marq. of Hartmgton.—
Sir Nmaniel Curzon.
IMy Xbwft. Lonl James Cavendish ;
made^ auditor of foreign aocorapts or
inpoats in Ireland: a new writ ordered,
Maivb 1, 174S.— John Stanhope.*^
Will. vise. Duncannon ; son in-law to
the doke of Devonshire, made a Ior4 of
the AdmiraUy ; and a new writ being
altered, Jnue 23, 1746, he was re-
fkmmaam. 9k Wilt. Courtenay. — Theo-
phiius Forteacue; died, a new writ
•ijcnd, March «1, 1746.-«ir Thomaa
DykeAdand.
Jbttr. Sr Henry Northcotn; died, a
■ew wril ordered, Dec. 1, 1743.-
Bninibiy. SydenhaA.--4Kr R. W.
BHspfflde.
Ibfiseif. 81r Charles Willes; died, a
new writ ordered, Jan. 16, 1742. —
Joseph Danver8.--Sir John Strange;
aolteitor- general and recorder of I^-
don, both which he resigned.
Plymouth. Arthur Stert.— Lord Vere
Beauclerk ; made a lord of the Ad mi- s
ralty ; and a new writ being ortlered,
Dec. 22, 1744, he was re-elected.
Oakhmnpton* George Lyttelton ; made
a lord of the treasury ; and a new writ
being ordered, Deo. 22, 1744, he waa -
re-elected.— Thomas Pitt ; assay- mas- .
ter for the coinage of tin to the prince
ofWales.
Barnstaple. Henry RoUe, — John Harris.
Flwnpton Earle. Tho. Clutterbuck; a
lord (^ the Admiralty, made treasurer
of the navy ; and a new writ being or-
dered. May 7, 1742, he was re-elected
and died; and a new writ ordered,
Nov. 26, 1742. — Richard Edgecumbe ;
created lord Edgecumbe; a new writ
ordered, Anril 26, 1742.— Rich. Edge-
cumbe ; eldest son of lord Edgecumbe.
—William k>rd Sundon.
JJont/on. Sir W. Yonge; made joint
vioe-4reasorer,and reeeiver-^neral, and
paymaster of all his majesty's revenues
ra the kingdom of Ireland; and a new
writ being ordered. May 10, 1746, he
was re-elected.— H. Reginald Courte-
nay.
Tavittock. Charles viscount Fane.T-Lord
Sherard Manners ; died, a new writ
ordered, Jan. 20, 1742.— James vis-
count Limerick.
Ask^rion. John Harris ; master of his
majesty's houshold. — John Aracot;
commistery-general of the marines.
Dartmouth. George Treby; died, a new
writ ordered, March 16, 1742.— Walter
Cary. — Lord* Archib. Hamilton; a
lord of the admiralty.
Btre-Alston. Samuel Heathcote.— 4Sir
W. Mord. HariMrd.
Tiverton. Arthur Ancot— Sir Dudley
Ryder.
DoBSEnniRB. Edm. Mort. Pleydell.— George
Chaffin.
PqoU. JoMoh Gulston ; South Sea di-
rector.^—Tnomas Missing..
DorekesUr. John Brown.— Nathaniel
Gundry ; made one of his majesty's
oounsei at Uw ; and a new writ being
ordered, July 14» 1742, he was re-
elected.
iMm Re^. Henry Holt Henley.^
JohnSmpe.
ITeymotiM and Mdcombe R^g«.— Josh.
Damer.— John Tucker.— John Ray-
monds—James Stuart.
BrU^t. William Bowles; made bis
I79J 14 GEORGE II.
paired, whQe Great Brita&ti
Debate in fhk Cofimofu on a Moiwn
[180
retdns her
natural superiority, andasterts die honour
of her flag in every climate, we cannot be-
cOtAt despicable, nor can toy nation ridi-
cule our menaces or scorn our alliance.
We may still extend our influence to the
inland countries, and awe those nations
which we cannot invade.
To preserve this powier, let us watch
oveV the disposal of our money ; money
is the source of dominion; those nations
may be formidable for their affluence which
are not considerable for their numbers ;
and by a negligent profusion of therr
wealth, the most powerful people may
languish info imbeciHty, and sink Into-
contempt.
If die grant which is now demanded will
be suflficlent to produce the ends to whidi it
is proposed to be applied, if we are assured
of the proper application of it, I shall
agree to it without hesitation. Bot tliOQffh
it cannot be affirmed that' the sum now oe-
inanded is tqphtgh a price for the liberties
of Europe, it is at least more than ought
to be squandered without effect^ and we
ought at least to know before we mnt it
what advantages may be expected £om it.
May not the sum demanded for the sup-
port of the queen of Hungary be employ-
''ed to promote very different interests ?
May it not be lavished to support that
power to which our grants have too long
contributed, that power by which our-
selves have been awed, and the adminis-
tration has tyrannized without controul >
If this sum is really intended to support
'the queen of Hungary, may we not en-
dulre how it is to be employed for her ser-
vice ? Is it to be sent her for the payment
of her afmies, and the support of her
court ? Should we not more enectually se-
cure her dominions by purchasing with it
the friendship and isfisistance of the king
of Prussia, a prince, whose extent of do-
•minions and numerous forces make him
'not more fbrmidable than his personal
qualities.
What may bchop^d, Sir, from a prince
of wisdom and courage, at the head of
110,000 regular troops, with eieht mil-
lions in his treasury ; now touch he must
necessarily add to' the strength of any
party in which he shall engage, is unnc'*
cessary to mention ; it is evident, without
prodf, that nothing could so much contri-
Dute to the re-est^lishment of the house
of Austria, as a reconciliation with 'this
taighty prince, and that to bring it to pass
would be the most effectual method of
serving the unfortunate ^^fxem ^ re.
quires our assiscanee.
Why We should despair, Sir^ oTsoch a
nsconcOilrtioii I cannot p6tdnvc; s n-
conciliattott e^uallv conducive to the
real interest of both parties, tt may be
proved, with very little difficulty, to thei
nn^ of Prussia, that he b now assistingl
those with whom interests fncompa^ie,
and religions irreconcilable, Yme set
him at variance, whom he csn never se^
prosperous bat by a diminution of Ms
own greatness, and who will always pro-
ject his ruin while they are enjoying the
advantages of his victories. We mav
easily convince him, that th^r power litl
soon become, by his assistance, sach oshe
cannot hope to withstand ; and shew M
the examples of other princes, how dan^
gerous it is to add to the strength of uij
ambitious neighbour. We may shew bin
how much the fate of the empire is noi^
in his hands, and how much more giorioo^
and more advantageous it will be to prei
serve it iVom ruin, than to contribute to H^
destruction.
If, by such ai^gtrments. Sir, this potcnl
monitrch can be induced to act steadSy ij
defence of the common cause, we ntai
once more stand at the head df a Protes
tant confederacy, that may contract m
views and repress the ambition of thi
house of Bourbon, and alter their schemj
of universal monarchy into expedients w
the defence of their dominions.
But in transacting these a&irs, let t^
not engiige in' any intricate treaties, no
amuse ourselves with displaying our abOi
ties for negooiktion ; negociation, that fetj
art which we have learned as yet ve^iw
perfectly, and which we have never al
tempteato practise but to our own losj
While we have beep entangled in tedioil
disquisitions, and retarded by artful d^
lays, while our commissaries have bed
debating about what was only denic
to proouce controversies, and enquirin
after that which has been hid from the
only to divert their attrition from otw
queistions, how many opportunities ha^
been lost, and how often might we haj
secured by war, what was, at a mw
greater expence, lost by treaties ?
Treaties, Sir, are the artillery of oi
enemies, to which we have nothing to o|
pose; they are weapons of which we knd
not the use, and which we can only esca)
by not comteg within their Teach. I ^^
not by what fatality it is, that to treat ai
to be oheat^ are, with regard to Britai
m] M 4 (¥iH4».*o, tke Qfi4m tffJmgi^rs* A. D. 17^1.
[18?
foidioft|i9ffui|ii significftioo; i^rdol
^tiQ4i bj (h^ observ^tipD, tp fisp^rse th^
dutfacters of particular j^rson^ j for trea-
tMfi» by whgfgaa&fpt carried oo, ha;^ e en4ed
abnijr« with the same success.
It is time, therefore, to know» at lengtbt
our v^abiaiB and our strength, and \a re-
lolTe BO lopger to put oursehes vqti^tarily
into the power of our en^iqies : qui: trppp^
bireahrays been om: |l>}e8t negpciat^rs*
«Qd totbm it Ims b^ea, for the most part,
necesoiy at last to refer our cause.
l^ w Hfpxk fdways pr?s^rve oup martial
chai|6tef» and nei^ect the ^rai$e of poli-
tical anviog; 9 quality wb&ch, I believe,
we Aall never fttaia, and which, if wp
C0uld obtain, v^uld add nothing to our ho-
imir. I^et it b^ the practice (A Brians to
(kchie th^ rwolfiUops without reserve,
aod adhere ta them ji) opposition to dm'
gieni let ikma^ be ambttipi^ of no other
cjpgj^ th^n 11^11^ which lo^jr be gajned by
^oif^ 9pd ^qofxrtigf^ ^or will they dien
erer find their allies diffident, or their en^
■iescaataBsplbUHis.
By reogveiing and WeitiQg this cbn-
adar, we npay kisam^ once ipore the ar-
biters of Ei|i«pe, »nd be courted by all the
Pioti9tai|tpiMeiB|^ their protectors; we
vtBf once swre ^ibdue the a^nbition of the
tq»iig ffmd^ and once more deliver
tibhom of Ajuistria from l^e inowfvnt
pmnit gf thoie restlesp enemies.
IbedeftiMe of th«it illustrious family>
Siff bu alipvgrs 9ppeai]ed to. me, since I
ftfai the /state of £ur^,tbe unvoriable
iftttCit of .Itie British n^tioa, and qut ob-
iigatioQs to support it, on this |>articuhir
ManQii,b«ve aoeedy beenauffici^ently i&x-
Whence it furoce^ds. Sir, that those who
inr ao s^alowify fisppivie the Austrian in-
tffttt, havebeen 90 fis^y fofgetful of it
on odier oocaaioiis, I paonot determine.
Hat treaties have been iqad^ very little
^ the advantage of tl»et fiwiily, and that
Jti comes huve boon auflB^red to insult it
fitboQt oppotitioBf 19 wfii koow^jiior w(|s
'^ ^ IgO thdU it was debated in thi^
ttxM^ywhcliier jviy money should be lent
^tkkteeov^ior.
Nopiihlic or private charao(;^r can h^
^Vported, ^o mWY* ^9 can be intimi-
««i, nor any friend ooc^med in his ad-
knooe, but t^ ^ steady and consistent
cvdoct, by proposing in all our actiomi
MJicndi apuMky be opetdy avowed, and
bypqsaii^'tllem wi|h(Hit r^ard to tem-
¥nty mmwi^im^^^ pr petty obstacles.
wi conduct. Sir, I woidd gladly i^e-
8
commend on the present ocpitsion, 6n
which I should ^^ fwr from advi3ipg a taint,
an irresolute, or momentary asstst^ce,
such supplies as declare diffiaence in our
own strepgtli, or a mean inclination to
please contrary parties at the same time,
to perform our engagements with the
queen, and continue our friendship with
Frafice. It is, ip my opinion, proper to
espouse our ally Y^ith the spiri); of a nadon
that expects her decisions to be ratified,
that holds the balance of the world in her
hand, and can bestow conquest and epi-
pire at her pleasure.
YeL Sir, it cannot be defied that many
powerful rea^ns ma^ be brought against
apy new occasion of ex^nce ; nor is it
without horror and astonishment that any
man, conversant in political calculations,
can consider the enormous profusion of th^
national treasure. In the late dreadful
confusion pf the world, when the ambition
of Fraiice had set half the nations of the
earth on flame, when we sent our armief
to the continent, and fought. the general
quwrrel of upnkind, we paid dunng tha'
reigns of king William, apd his great suc-
cessor, reigns of which every summer was
distinguished by some important actjop
but four millions yearly.
But our preparations for the present if ar,
in which ^carc^y a single ship of war haa
been taken, 0^ a sin^e fortress laid in
ruins, have brought upon the nation an ex-
pence of fiye n^iBions. So much more ara
wa now obliged to pay to amuse tha
weakest, than formerly to subdue the moat
powerful of our enemies.
Frugi^ity, which is always prudent, is,
at this tigie. Sir, i^9dispensibie> when wa^t
dreadful as it 11^ may be termed the lightest
of our calamities, when the seasons have
di8app9ii4ed us of bread, and an universal
scarcity afflicts the nation. Every day
brings us accounts from different pad3 fSf
the oaw^y» and evexy account is a pa^
evidanca of the general calamity, of the
wwpit of iaicuplpymont for the ppor, and its
ftpiflaMary consequence, the want of £ood.
HjC that is scarce able to preserve him-
aalfy cannot be expected to assist others;
nof is that money to be granted to foreign
powers, which is wanted for the support of
our fellow-subjects, who are now languish-
ing with diseases, which unaccustomed
hardships, and unwholesome provisions
have brought upon them, while we are
providing against distant dangers, and be-
wailing the distresses of the house of Aua-
triat
183]
14 GEORGE IL DAaie on a SiMtfy to ike Q^m ef HiMgoiy. [lU {
Let us not add to die miseries'of famine
the mortifications of insult and neglect ;
let our countrymen, at least, divide our
care with our alHes ; and, while we fonn
schemes for succouring the aueen of Hun-
§ary, let us endeavour- to alleviate nearer
istresses, and prevent or pacify domestic
discontents.
If there be any man whom the sight of
misery cannot move to compassion, who
can hear the complaints of want without
sympathy, and see the general calamity of
his country without employing one hour
on schemes for. its relief: Let not that
man dare to boast of integrity, fidelity or
honour ; let him not presume to recom-
mend the preservation of our fiuth, or ad-
herence to our amfederates ; that wretch
can have no real regard to any moral ob-
ligation, who has forgotten those first du-
ties which nature impresses ; nor can he
that neglects the happiness of his country,
recommend any good action for a good
reason.
It should be considered. Sir, th&t we
can only be useful to our allies, and for-
midabletoour enemies, by being unanimous
and mutually confident of the good inten-
tions of each other, and that nothing but
a steady attention to the public welfiu*e, a
constant readiness to remove grievances,
and an apparent unwillingness to impose
new burthens, can produce that unanimity*
As the cause is therefore necessarily to
precede the effisct; as fore^n influence is
the consequence of happmess at home, let
us endeavour to establisn that alacrity and
security that may animate the people to
assert .^their ancient superiority to other
nations, and restore that plenty which may
raise them above any temptation to repine
at assistance ^iven to our allies.
No man, Snr, can very solicitously wat<^
oyer the wel&re of his neighbour, whose
mind is depressed by poverty, or distracted
by terror, and when the nation shall see
us anxious for ihe preservation of the
3ueen of Hunsary, and unconcerned about
^e wants of our fellow-subjects; what
can be imagined, but that we have some
method o£ exempting oursehres firom the
common dbtress, and that we regard not
the public misery when we do not feel it?
Sir Robert Walpole :
' Sir ; it is always proper for every man
to lay down some principles upon which
he proposes to act/ whether in public or
private ; that he may not be always waver-
ing, uncertain, andi irresoltttef thai his
adherents may know what they are to a-
pect, and his adverearitis be able to teD
why they are opposed.
It is necessary. Sir, even fi>r his own
sake, that he may not be always strolling
with himself; that he may imovr his own
determinations, and enforce them bj the
reasons which have prevailed upon him to
form diem ; that he may not argue in the
same speedi to contrary purposes, and
weary die attention of his hearers with
contrasts and antitheses*
When a man admits the necessity of
ffranting a supply, expatiates upon the
danger that tdbj be produced by retarding
it, (feclares aeainst the least delay, how-
ever speciously proposed, and inforces the
arguments which have been already oflered
to shew how much it is our duty and in-
terest to allow it; may it not ressonably
be imagined that he intends to promote it,
and is endeavouring to convince them of
that necessity of wnich he seems himself
convinced >
But when the same man proceeds to
display, widi equal eloquence, the present
calamities of the nation, and tells, to hov
much better purposes the sum, thus d^
manded, may be applied ; when he dwells
upon the possibility that an impolitic ose
may be made of the nadonal treasure;
and hints, that it may be asked for one
purpose and employed to another, whst
can be cbllected firom his harangue, how-
ever elegant, entertaining, and pathetic?
How can his true opinion be discorered?
Or how shall we fix such fugitive reason-
ines, such variable rhetoric ?
I am not able. Sir, to discern, why truth
should' be obscured ; or why any maa
should take pleasure in heaping tc^ether
all die arguments that his knowledge ins^
supply, or his imagmadon suggest, agains^
a proposition which he cannot deny, ^o^
can r assign any gopd purpose tbat can
be promoted by perpetual renewals of dej
bate, and b^ a repetition of objections^
whidi have m former conferences, on th<
same occasion, been found of little force.
When die system of affiurs is not fu^
laid open, and the schemes are in part usj
known, it is easy to raise objectioos for^
midable m appearance, which perh^ cai^
not be answered till the necessity of sej
crecy is taken away. When any genera
calamity has fallen upon a nation, it » I
very fruitful tonic of rhetoric, and may bj
very pathetiouly exaggerated, tipon i
thousand occasions to whidi it has dooq
oessary relation*
mf]
Lid ffthe HtnM qfCom^»oks.
1743.— Tboaiaf Vernon.— Sir Henry
Hvpur.
Droitmck, Tliomas Foley. — Thomas
Winnington ; made bis election for
Wofcester.— Loitl George Bentinek.
Et€skmm. Edward Rndge. — Sir* John
Roshoirt ; vade a lord of the treasury,
and a new trrit bdnff ordered, Feb. I89
174S, he was re-elected; dlerwards
of Us majesty's navy ;
9md anew writ being omrad, Dec. 91,
1743, he was re-elected.
Bsv^. WUliaai Bowles.
■uaoBi. Charles tisc. Morpeth ; died, a
new writ ordered, Dec. 43, 1741. — Sir
Hyles Stapyjton.— Cbolmond. Tamer.
York, Godfrey Wentworth. — Edward
ThoRi|MMMt; died, a new writ ordered,
Jnly 13, 1749.— Cfeorge Fox.
Kkupimhupan-HvlL George Crowle.—
WiMani Carter; died, a new writ or-
dcrsd, Ipfi 9, 1744.— Hony Pokeney.
nk. Sir Henry ttiuUiy.-
aadel; mdamloid of the
r ; and a new writ being order-
«i, Dot. 99, 1744^ he was reelected,
and made trsasnnr of the flfaasber ; and
UMT writ hsiDgefdeiad, Jma 93, 1746,
hewi
SccrlorcwgA. Wmiam Thompson ; died,
anew writ ordered, Nor. 97, 1744.—
WiDiain Osbaideston. — Edwin Las-
W^pcm. WiUianiAidabie.— Henry Yane;
Mda nos-lrea«arer, reoeirer-genera),
and pnymailBr-general of all fak nujes-
ty*a JifMWua in the kingdaBa of Ireland ;
and anew writ being ordered, July 14,
1748, he waaie-elecldf.
XidbaoMf. John York.— Sir Conyers
D'Aiwy.
fltdMk Fc«ndsGhirte.^LaAM Robinson;
balk not dv^y elscted.^Al^enion £.
Hu— li iih ; died, a near writ ordered,
hm. $%, 1744. — OaDwa Berkeley;
died, a ww writ ocdesed, Nov. 18, 1746.
— Cewga Ansen; nowkNrd Anpon.—
Suand Gumley; not doly dected.
Resolted, Feb. 5, 1747> That the right
of election is in the bnryesses of this,
bonmgti.'-Lake Robinson.
Bttimgk'Bri4ge. JamesTyrmet'; colonel
of a rcgiOMUt ef foot, brigadier-genera],.
Md governor of Hlbory- Fort; died, a
new writ ordered. Nor. 99, 1749.—
Oesigc Gregory ; died, a new writ or-
dond^ A|Nil II, 1746.— William Mur-
ray; solicitor-generalto his majesty.—
ffaoo eaif ofDalkelth.
Ibton. Ld. Ja. Cavendish jmi. ; died,
a nnw writ ordered, Deo. 93, 1741.-^
Bavy Finch; mad^ sorreyor-general
of hiswa|i!iiy%wof|y, aad 11 MW writ
A. D. 1741. [SIO
being ordered, Dec. 91, 1743, be was
re-eiected.-^obn Moftyn; colonel in
the flruards, and aid -de-camp, made one
of. the grooms of the beaehamber to
his majesty ; and a new writ b^ing or*
dered, Jan. 99, 1746, be was re-elected.
Tkirtk. SirTbo.Frankhmd; died, a new
writ ordered, May 1, 1747.— Frederick
Frankland.— Tfio. Frfuaklaad^ captain
of a man of war.
AUbataugh, John Jewkes; died, a new
writ ordevad, Doe. 1, 1743.--^drew
Wilkinsons aoade storakosper of the
ordnance ; and a now writ being order-
ad, Anril 14» 1746, ho wasM«elocted.—
Na« Nawnham.
Beoer^. Cbaries Pelbaift. — William
Stric&hmd.
Northallerton. Henry Pdrse.— Williaiik
Smelt; made reoeirer-general of hbi
Biaie8t|r*s casual rerenne in the island
of fiarnadoes ; and a new writ ordered,
April 30, 1745. — Henry Laseelles.
Jhmtefrad. Geo. Moreton Fltt^*-JohA
rise. Oalway ; eonNMsaionerof the re-
Tonno in Irdand, whiob harasigned in
paiLKK
CINQUE FOR119.
HMtingt. James Pelham ; secretary to
the ford ckamberlain.'-Andrew 8lono<;
aaot«taiT under tbe duke of Newcastle,
principal seoretaiyof state; aaade se-
cretary of the kiand of Bmbodoes, and
a new writ being ordered, April tp 1749,
he was re-elected.
Dover. LordGeotgeSackfflle.-s-Thomtt
Rofell; contractorfor Gibraltar.
Sondwich. John Pratt. ^— Sir Geoigo
Oxenden.
Hythe. Bercnleo Bkiker; died, a new
. writ ordeied. Nor. 97, 1744.— William
Glanville.— Thomas Hales.
New JRommy. . Sir Fiaods Dashwood.—
Henry Fumese.
Eye. Sir John Norritr. — PhiOips Gyb-
bott; »ado4 lord^of the treasnry ; andja
new wril being ordered, Feb« 18, 1749,
he was re-eiejed. ,
IFmcMwa, Arth^. rise Donen^le.—
TbobOrby Hunter; gentkiMn of tha
privy chamber to his nuyeoly.
• S^rford. Siff W. Gage ; dkid, a new writ
ordered. May 3, 1744.— WiHiam Haye.
— WiUiamUaUGage,
WALES.
AimcKtBr. JiAsOwOT.
BsnasMiru. James viie. Birifceley.
Brbcon. Jdu JeAffiet.
Brecon. iobttTdbol*
[P]
SIl]
1&6E0R6BIL
Lid iff the Hau$e ofCanmois.
[212
CuunoAM. Wtherlioyil; not duly decled.-*
ThoiDfti Powel.
Cardigan, Thomas Pryw; Richard
Uoyde, esq. petitioner, renewed seas.
8, 3, 4, 5, and heard at' the bar of the
house, Jan. 23, 1746, when the peti-
tioner's oonnsel represented that he was
not prepared to proceed, and desired the
hearing; of the matter of the petition
might be deferred for three weeks,
wluch being objected to by the cioansel
lor the borgesws, who TOled lor the tote
; member, Thomas Piryse, esq. de-
1, praying, that in respect of
the time which was elapsed since the
petitioner's first appUcatioa to the house,
and of the opportunity thereby ffiv«^
him to be prepared to prove the ailei^-
tions of his |M!tition, that the oetition
wi^i be dismissed. Ordered, that the
^petition be dismissed, and thatn new
writ be issued in the room of Thomas
Piyse, esq. deceased. — John Symmons.
CAUUBraiN. Sir Niob. WilGams; died, a
new writ oidered, Oct la, 1?45.— John
Yaoghan.
Carmarthen. Sir John Philips.
Cabnabvon. William Bodselle.
^ Camarwm, Thomas Wynne.
DnnroB. John Myddelton; Toted not duly
retained, but had liberty to petition if
he thought fit ; which he did not.— Sur
Wat. W. Wynn.
Denbigk. John Wynne.
FuMT. Sir John Glynn.
Flmi. Sir George Wynne; Toted not
duly elected.— Bichard Williams.
Glamorgan. Bnssy Mansell; succeeded his
Bussy n
as fold
brother as lord Hansdl ; a new writ
ordered, Dec. e, 1744.— Thomas Mat-
thews.
Cardiff: Heibert Mackwortb.
Mbuonbtb. William Vaugfaan.
MoirraoifBRT. Sir WatW. Wynne; made
his election for the county of Denbigh.
—Robert Williams.
Manigomerjf, Ja. Cholmondeley; iient*
' €ol.ofthe hone guards, and gorenor of
Chester.
p£MBROu. John Campbeh ; made a lord of
the treasury; and anew writ being or-
dered, June 33, 1746, he was re-elected.
Pembroke. William Owen.
Maverfard Wett. Sir Eraam. Philipps;
died, a new wrilordemd, Dec 1, 1743.
—George Barlow.
Radnor. Sir Hum. Howarth.
JUdiior. Thoma Lewis.
SCOTLAND.
Sbirb of
Aberdeen. Sir Arthur Foibei.
Ayr. PMrick Crawfinrd.
Atgyle. Capt Charies Campbdl ; died,
a new writ ordered. Jan. 18, 174S«-
Ja. Stu. Mackenzie ; brother to tbe
earl of Bute.
Banff. Ja. Abercrombie ; lieiit col of
the regiment of foot called RoTtiScod.
Berwick, Sir John St Clair.^A. H.
Campbell ; double return ; the latter
duly elected.
Bute. Alexander Brodie; lord Lyoo,
king at arms.
Ciackmannan, Sir John Brace Hope.
Cromarty. Sir William Gordoo ; died, i
new writ ordered, Dec. S, 174i--Sir
John Gordon.
Dumfries. Sir John Douglas.
Dunbarton. John CampbeU.
Edinbw^gk. Sir Charies GUoiOQr;iBidi
paymaster of his miqesty's boanl of
works ; and a new writ bong ndered,
July 14, 1748, he was re-eleoled. Af-
terwards made one of tbe ooomtts-
^ aiooen for trade and planlatioDi; tod
• new writ being ordered, Dec SS,
1743, he was re-«dected. Sevenleleo>
tors petitioned against this last elccdoD,
but he was TOted duly elected.
Elgin. Lndovick Grant
JSfe. Dand Scott.
Forfar. William Maule ; oeiied eiri of
nnmare. In Ireland; sod (tf Hany
SEaule, ford Brechin, eldest son of
James, earl of Panmure, in Scotland,
who being concerned in the rebeOiol}
1715, was attainted of high-treiND.
Haddington. Lord Charles flaj.
Juvemesi. Nmman M*Leed.
ITtncerilintf . Sir James Csmegie ; noadi
a captttn of foot in his nwjo^<
army ; and a new writ being ordend
Dec. S, 1744, he was re-electsd.
Kirkcudbrifht. Basil Bamilton ; died, i
new ifnt ordered, Dec. 3, 1T48«-
Captain John Maxwell.
Lanark. Sir James Hamilton.
LinUthgom. George Dundas; vdmA
master of his majesty's works in Scot
land ; a new writ ordered, April 3(
1743.— Charles Hope Weir; brothe
of the eari of HopeUmn ; made (m
missary general or the musters in Scol
land ; and a new writ being orderei
Not. so, 1744, he was re-elected.
Orhiw. Col. Rob. Douglas; killed at tl
battle of Fontenoy; anewwritordeie
Jan. 13, 1747.— Jamea HaDyborton.
FeOUe. Akwider Murray.
113] Mr. Arthur OnJom r^hosen
Perth, Lord John Mnrraj.
Rmfrtm, A). Cnbaioglitaie ; died, ft new
wntoitkred,NoY. 39, 174S.-«Will»m
Bm, Cherles Roa ; died, a new wiAt
«dend» Nor. 18, 1746.— Sir Harry
HflOTQ. ,
Rukurgh. John Rotherfind, jnn. ; made
a ciptain of .an indqiendent company
iaUiaii^y'aarmy ; andanewwnt
ordeftd, Jan. 18, 1743. — William
SeikirL John Murray.
5Krfif . Lord Geoive Grahamb ; died,
a w«r writ ordered, Jan. 28, 1747. —
Ikmis Erakine; eon of the late
eari of Mar.
S^herkad. Brigr. Gen. Ja.'8t. Clair;
colood of a regiment of foot, and of
two beltaJions.
Wigln, James Stuart; aon to James,
oii of GaUoway, and colonel in the
tinrd regfiment of fDol guards.
Idkhirgh Ct(y. Archibald Stewart.
locGBi or
Kitk9§Ut 4rc. Charles Areskine; sir
Roktrt Monro, hart, petitioner ; the
dedioo declared foid; a new writ
vdetcd, March 3, 174S.— Robert Crai-
gie ; king's advocate.
Xmrsoiy^c. Kenneth Mackensie; son
6f the esrl of Seaforth, attainted for
in the rebdiion in 1715, called
a,
£^ jrc Sir James Grant ; died, a
new writ ordered, Jan. 19, 1747.<^
WOEaffl Grant.
JMem, 4re. John Maule.
Jtrfar, Sfc, John Drommond; died, a
Bew writ ordered, Deo. 81, 1748.—
Cipttin Thomas Leslie.
Cml, ^c. Hon. John Stuart.
I>)wrf, ^c James Oswald; made a
ooanDiimiar of the nary, and a new
vri( being ordered, Jan. 10, 1745, ho
was re-elected.
yMrktUking^ ife, Jsmes Erskine ; bro-
ther to the hue earl of Marr, and so-
creHry to the prince lor Scotch affairs.
Olat^^ifc. NeQ Buchanan; died, a
BOW writ ordered, Feb. 85, 1744.-^
licet Col. John CampbelL
&2tir^ 4rc. James Carmichaeh— John
M*Ka^; double return; the former
mvea his return.
H«tiiiiffaa,^c. James Fall.— Sir Hew
Mrymide; double return; Ihe former
wired has return.
^^^^f^ it. Lord John Johnston;
M, a new writ ordered, Dec 81,
Htt,«-% Jtmes Johnston.
Speiiker. A. D. 1741. [914
Wigtfm, tfc. William Stuart
Jjrr, ^c, Geoige eari of Granard.
SoTUN Pbbbs of ScoTUMn.,
Dukes of Athol.
Bncdeugh.
Marq. of Lothian.
Earls of CrawfordL
Sutheriaad*
Morten.
Loudon.
Finlater.
Selkirk.
Belcarrsi.
Dunmoce.
Orkney.
Portmore*.
Hopeton.
'Ilay.
LordCathcart.
Mr. Arthur Omh/a re-^oien SpeaherJ^
The Conmions being returned to their
House,
Mr. Henry PMam addressing himself
to the derk (who standing up, pointed to
him» and then sat down,) said ^o thii
effisct:*
* From the Commons' Jeumal. The fol-<,
lowing, from the Gentleman's Magazine, is
Dr. Johnson's report of the Speeches on the
Choice of a Speaker :
Mr. Pelham :
Mr. Ha
!; OS we are here assembled, in
pursuance of his majesty's summons, it is ne*
cessary, in obedience to his m^esty's com-
mands, and the established custom of this
House, that we proceed immediate]^ to the
choice of a person qualified for the chair. Gen-
tlemen, it is with no common degree of satis-
ftction, that I obserre this assembly so nomer^
0U8 on the first day ; because whaterer is trans-
acted by us, must necessarily be considered by
the nation with more rmrd, as it is approved
by a greater number of their representatives';
and boMuse the present afiair, which relates
particularly to thb HoUse, most be more satis«
factorily conducted, as our nuihber is greater ;
since every man must wiUingly abide by his
own choice, and cheerfully mbmit to that au- '
thority of which he has himself eenourred io
theestablisbment
The qualificatioDS required in the pcraon
who shall fill the chair, to his own reputation,
and the advantage of the House, it is not ne-
cessary minutldy to recount; it being obvious
to every gentleman who hears me, that he
must possess such an. equally of temper, as
may enable him always to pteoervc a steady
ano impartial attention, neither discomposed
by the irregulsrities into whidi some ffsntiemea
unacquainted with the forms of tBs House
nay easUly fidi, aordisooncsrlsd by the beet
»lft] 15' GEORGE IL
Mr.Hahlkigei
We are met, by his majesty's gra-
cious ohtelTy in V new parfaament, and
agreeably to the custom of fonoer times.
Mr* dftimt^ (hdmt ti^koim Spmkr. [21^
we are diractai^ in tfaa int ^laoe, to
cheese a proper pefscm to ill the Chair (tf
thisHouse. Thisis an aSur of the greatest
impcMtance to the being of par&nents.
And it beo6mts ua seriously to consider
and turbulence to which, in former parliaments,
some of those whose experience might ha?e
taught them the neceasity of decency, have
been too often hurried by tne eagerness of con-
troversy. That he must add to his perpetual
serenity, such a firmness of mind, as may en-
able him to repren petolaace and subdue con-
tumacy, and support the orders of the House,
in whatever contrariety of counsels, or commo-
tion of debate, sffainst all attempts of infraction
or deviation. That to give efficacy to his in-
terpositions, and jirocure veneration to bis de-
cisions, be must from his general character and
persona] qualities derive such dignity and au-
thority, as may naturally dispose the minds of
others to obedience, as may suppress the mur-
murs of ^nry, and psc? ant tba stniggba of
jmsaetition.
These Qualifications Wf re eminently oonspi-
'Ottous in tne gentleman vrho filled the chair in
the earlier part of my life, and who is now one
of the ornaments or the other Hoase. Such
were hla abilities, and such bis conduct, that it
wbuld be presumptuous in any man, however
endowed by nature, or aeoompiished by study,
to aspire to sur|Mas him; nor ean a hi^ar en-
aomium be assiiy oonosived, than thisHaosa
bsstoweA upon that porsan» who waa thought
worthy to succeed him.
The ofiice which we have npw to confer, is
not only arduous with regard to the abilities ne-
cessary to the exectttioB of it, but extremely
burthensome and laborious, such as requhvs
contioual attendance, and incessant application ;
aor can it be eapectad that any maa woold en-
gage in it, who is not rsady to devote his tiaaa
and his health to the service of the public, and
to struggle with fatigue and restraint for the
lidvaalage of his country.
Such is the gentleman whom I shaH propose
to your choice ; one whooe zeal for the present
royal family, sad the prosperity of the nation,
has been always acknowledged, aad of whom it
cannot be suspected that be will be deterred by
any diffionlties from a province which will
afi^ him ao frequent opportonities of pro*
rooting the oomipoa interest of the king and
thepeople.
What siioeess may be expected from his en-
deavours, we can only judge from bis present
influence; influence produced only by his
private virtuca, bat so extensive in that part of
the conatry, which lies within the reaofa of his
heaeficence aad the observation of bis merit,
that it seto him not onljr above the dsnger, but
above the fear^of opposkioa, and secures him a
seat in this Hoase without csontest
Thus deputed by his oountry to many snc-
ceaaive parliaments, be has acquired an unri-
valled degree of knowledge in the methods of
o«ir. praoeeding% and aa amiaent deytarity u
digesting them with that order and perspicaiiy
by wfakb only the transactioa of mat afikin
can be made expeditbns, and the diicQisioaof
diiBcnIt qnestmns be disentangled from per-
plexity ; qoalitics which are now mad0 perti-
colarly necessary by the importsacs of tlie
subjects to be considersdia this psilisiReBt: »
that I doubt not but you will naaniis*
ly concur with me in «esiriog that the cbairl
may be fiUed by a person emineatly disiiD'
guisbed by nis knowledge, his mtsgritv, In
diligence, and his r^utatioa ; and therefore I|
move without scruple, That the right hoo.
Arthur Onslow, esq. he called to die Chair.
Mr. Clutterbuck seconded the motioo io tbt
msnner: That I am not able ta add sDjr thi
to the encomiom of the right boa. geotien
nominated to the Chair, givss me no eoocerD,
becacise I sm confident, that ia the opinido '
this assembly his name alone iaolodcs allp
nagyric, and that he who recommeodft Ar
thnr Onslow, esq; will never be required togtvi
the rsason of his choice. I thermre rise i
only to continue the common methods of
House, and to second a motion whieb I '
expect that any wiH oppose. [Herethswl
House cried out, Omdow ! Oattow !]
Mr. Orulaw then rose op and said: Thi
I might ahege many reasons sgtiost il
choice, of Vbich the fstrongest is myioabiiil
to diseharge the trust conferred upon meio
manner suitabte to its importance, }«t I hav^
too high an idea of the wisdom of this HooseJ
to imagine that they form any resshition witbi
out just motives ; and therefore shall think i|
my duty to comply with their determinatiooj
however opposite to my .own opinioD. i
Mr. Pelham and Mr. C1utteri>uck then M
him to the Chair, where, before he went M
it, he desired ; That the Rouse would maim
bow little he was qualified fbr the office wbic^
they were about to confer upon him, and li^
their choice upon some other peison, wbj
might bo capable of dischargiag sainimtaQ
a trust.
The members
Chair, he ascended the^tepi
himself thus to the House: Geattemea ; sio(
it is your resolution, thai I should oace moii
receive the honour of being exalted to this iol
porlaut office, for which it is not oecesary t^
mention how little I am qualified, stnce 1 naaj
hope that those defecu which have hitherti
been excused, will still find the same inilu
gence ; my gratitude for a distinction 9o\m
deserved, will always incite me to cooiolt m
honour of the House, and enable me ts mppij
by duty and diUgenee what is wanting in ^\
knowledge and capacity.
I calling cot, the Chair, Chai
led the step, and thea addresa
117] Mr.AffktKrOtubimft^dumm^idBtr.
ibom «t ckd info an oSoe/tkst refuirai
ttm di^jfftadat ability^ the |;reatoit
istegntjr, nd tbs greatest epplicatigiu It
ii with plMiure 1 see mei^perscms, under
cbeie Tinous descriptions, who deserve to
be called to this honoor* But when I eee
ODC psrticiiisr person, who has already dis«
rmgtd tius eamLoyment so much to his
oiro honour, and so much to the interest
o( thii House; when I see one of thu dis-
ungoiahed capacity, it will not be deroga*
toiy to their merit thus publidy to express
my thoii^ of his«
It vsi io the early days of his life, when,
by the HDioimouB consent of this House,
he vac plsced in that high station, in
vhtch he succeeded a person of areat ho-
bour, whose authority gave wei^t to the
proccedingB of this House : and it was an
erideiit ouirk of public esteem, and a con-
vboBg proof of merit, to be thus appointed
UmnosMor.
Ibslieie all mankind sees the situation
tfa&insbroodandathome; so thatitis
probible, that matters of the greatest im-
poftaioe umj comeunder the consideration
of tbii Hoose ; which ought to induce us
the more willingly to place in that Chair
«»,whoie principles, experience in the
h«s of hiseoontry, and particular applica-
tini to the proceedings of {Mirliament, do
to well qualify him to preside in this as-
sanbly.
Wheu I consider (what recommends
i^ to me, and is, in my opinion, not the
IcMt of his virtues) his constant and firm
sell for his present majesty, his fiither,
ud the raccenion in his illustrious House
— vhen I consider (what also weighs with
0K> aad I doubt not with every one who
^xse) his steady adherence to the rules
flf pirhanent — wKen I consider his can-
^lad impartiality, hb temper and reso-
^tioo— cenper to indulge the youn^ and
uexperienced members, and reM>lution to
correct the oldest — when I consider these
coaiiiicatioos, by which he has gained a
l^M^nl esteem, I must conclude, that it
*iflbealwm incumbent upon us, as long
^ iie it sbfey to desire his acceptance <?
^ important office. When I have said
^ 1 am persuaded every gentleman has
^^^^ in his Uioughts the nerson whom I
''''Q to propose— Mr. Onslow.
And I make no doubt, but thaiaH gen-
^^« those especially with whom I have
*t in foTBMr parnaraents, will unanimoosly
^^'wurwithiae in the choice of the person
«^ I mm oier. If I should not offend
°*«n) I cottld say,thal hia behariour in
A. D. 1741. [Hi
private aa well as in public life is an aniia-
Ue oart of his character ; of which his
hei^hboncs and countrymen hare shewn
their opinion, by unanimously sead^ him
to parliament. Let us shew our sense of
him, by calling (I shocdd rather saiy d^
siring) him to undertake thn Id^oriouni
task, that our choice may soon be spread
through,and approved by, the whole united
kinffdom. I am sorry I amnot able toset
foiijtn his qualities in a better manner than
I have done ; but gentlemen, by their pri-
vate thoughts, will do him morejustice.
Therefore I shall move you, ^ That the
right hon. Arthur Onslow, esq. do take the
Chair as Speaker.'*
Then Mr. Thoma$ C/tff^eri«cit, address*
ing himself likewise to the derk (who,
standing up, pointed to him, and then sat
down), said to this effect ;,
What I rise up for, is to second the
hon. gentlenum's motion, and not, by any
thing I can say, to add weight to it. 1% is
not necessary for me to enlarge upon the
merits of the person proposed, or to com«
mend his temper and prudence, his know-
ledge of the laws and constitution of this
kingdom, and of the forms and rules of
this House, upon which the honour there*
of so much aepends. These his endow-
ments we have seen in two successive par*
liaments ; and, added to these, die strictest
regard to the interest of the public, his
zeal for the liberties of this House, his
zeal for his majesty, and his family ; it Is
no won4^, that any person who has these
qualifications, dhould be called upon to so
ni§^ an office. 1 congratulate this House,
that ther^ is a great number of gentlemen
of rank and Mlhj in it; yet 1 shall still
be excused in the preference whidi I have
given. And I cannot but look upon It as
a fortunate circumstance, in the present
situation of afbirs, that we are able to ^
our choice upon a person^ whom, by ex-
perience, we know to be equal to any dif-
ficulty. I could say much more ; but 1
fear it may give uneasiness to one person
who hears me ; and therefore I second the
hon. eentleman. That Mr. Onslow do take
the chair.
And the House calling Mr. Onstcw to
the chair, he stood up in his place, and
said,
^ Mr. Hardinge ;
<( I cannot make admowledgmenta
enough of what I owe to the honourable
persons who have made this motion to the
House: I am very sensible. Sir, of my
own defects; and although I have, flom
S19]
15 GEORGE IL The Speaker^s Speech on being presenML [<g
tke great candour and indul|;eiice of gen«
tlemen in the two last parbamentSy twice
g(Kie through this difficuk trust, yet am I
sensible too, that will not make the repe-
tition o( it in me now either less hazardous
to myself, or of less danger to the public
affiurs : but, however. Sir, I will not trou-
ble gentlemen with the arguments of dis-
ability in myself, which I might, perhaps
ought to use at this time ; but shall sub-
mit myself intirely to the judgment of the
House, to dispose of me in whatever man-
ner they shad think proper, on this and
every other occasion/'^
And the House again calling Mr. On-
slow to tha chair, he was taken out of his
place by Mr. PdUiam and Mr. Clutterbuck,
who led him from thence to the chair,
where, upon the first step, he said,
*< It is my duty to inform gentlemen,
that they have yet an opportunity to re-
consider what tney have done, by sufl&rw-
inir me to go back to the place I have just
nowleft.''*^
But the members cried <f No ! No I" ^
Whereupon Mr. Ondow ascended the
upper step ; and, standing there, said,
** Since gentlemen have commanded
'me to this eminence, I have now only to
return them my humblest thanks for this
particular instance of their favour to me ;
the sense of which I hope I shall always
retain with that respect and gratitude to
the House, this mark of their esteem will
ever claim from me."
And thereupon he sat down in the chair ;
and then the mace, which b^ore lay
under the table, was laid upQn the table.
The Speaker* s Speech on being presented
io the King and appr&oed of,"] Dec. 4.
The King bein^ seated on the throne,
adorned with his crown and regal orna-
ments, and attended with his. officers of
state, the Lords being in their robes;
commanded the sentleman usher of the
black rod to let the Commons know, ** It
is his majesty's pleasure, that they attend
him immediately, in this House.'' Who
being come;
• Mr. Onshto^BAd:
*^ May it please your most excellent
majesty ;
*VThe Commons of Great Britain, in
parliament assembled, have, in pursuance
of your majesty's commands, and ac-
cordiQg to their ancient right to make
choice of one of their members to be
th^r Speaker, once more^elected me to
this high and painful office; but how pi
perly tor me, for themselves, and bfi
public, is now with your majesty to jad|
and to your royal judgment. Sir, do
with all humbleness and resignation, is
mit myself; bcdng well assured. Us
should your majesty think fit to dki
prove of this their present choice, jq
Commons will have no difficulty to i|
some other person among them, to J
presented to your majestv on this oo(
sion,' to whom none of those objectSs
can be made, which, 1 fear, may i
justly, from my imperfections, ante
your royal breast, upon my being agp
the subject of your majesty's conada
tion for this important charge."
^ The Lord Chancellor^ receiviDg din
tions from his majesty, said,
** Mr. Onslow ; the king has had i
many eminent {iroofs of your abili^ai
zeal for the service of himself and of ra
country (which is always the same) !
the high station to which you are oov
third time called, that his majestv \^
commanded me to let you know, tostl
entirely approves the choice which k
faithful Commons have made ; and then
fore allows and confirms you to be the
Speaker." -
Then Mr. Speaker said :
^* Since your majesty has been pleue
to ratify the choice your Commons h«f
made of me to be their Speaker; it is q
duty. Sir, to submit myself to your wf^
determination, and to return your nv
jesty my humblest thanks for this mark (
your royal grace and favour to me ; as
to assure you. Sir, of my best endeaveoi]
to discharge as I ought this great tnu
which the Cpmmons nave committed U
and your majesty has now confirmed upa
me. And for my encouragement thereii
suffer me, great Sir, to hope for ^ou
majesty's pardon of my failings and mfir
mities ; at least, that your majesty w2
not impute them in any wise to joa
faithful Commons. And, that theynur
be the better enabled to perfonn thei
duty to your majesty and their country, i
do, in their name, and on their behalf, \
humble petition to your majestji^, hrj
claim to all their ancient rights and prin
leges; particularly. That they, their sef
vants, and estates, may be free iroa
arrests, and all molestations: Thattht^
may enjoy freedom of speech in aD'theu
ddiates ; and have liberty of ac(M ^
p
The ISngU Speech on Opening the Semon. ' A. D« 1741.
t89i
por royal peraon when occasion shall re-
Ceit And that all* their proceedings
Ifrieoetve from your majesty the most
Lxiisble coDs^uction/'
Shea the Lord Chawettor^ by his ma-
M Airtber coDQmandSy said :
i« Mr. Speaker ; the king has an entire
in the prudence and temper of
House of Commons, as well as in
doty and affection to his person and
It ; and hia majesty does most
it to them all their privileges^
tumi nd ample manner as they have
^ loytune heretofore been granted or
llPHlbyhis majesty, or any of his royal
Irieeesors. As to the suit which you,
|ir, lM9t made on your own behalf; your
hner conduct is the clearest evidence
Er^e you stand in need of it: but,
your greater encouraoement and sup-
lin the execution of sa important a
1^ kis majesty, agreeably to his wonted
liaeN, has commanded me to assure
^ ^ he wtQ always put the most
panUe construction both upon your
diand actions."
Pfb Ki^i Speech on Opening the Sef-
pQ Then nis Majesty spake as fol-
« My lords, and gentlemen ;
*( his alwaysa great satisfaction to me,
I meet you aasraibled in parliament :
lisspeciaUy at this time, when Ihe pos-
bar afidts makes your counsel and as-
iBee sonecessary, and when, by means
rAe new elections, ' I may have an op-
*"' nity of knowing the more immediate
^and disposition of my peo]^ in ge-
from their representatives, chosen
j a season which has been attended
Wk great variety of incidents of the
ikit conaequence and expedtation, and
Bhg^e course of the war in which we
lleDji^ against the crown of Spain ;
[ivm itself just and necessary, entered
iajby the repeated advice of both houses
I larliament, and particularly recom-
Itoded to me to be carried on in Ame-
H^vhich has been my principal care: I
[ft therefore make no doubt but that you
Minet together fully sensible of our
ptNBt situation, and prepared to give
pfe audi advice as shall be most conducive
\^ honour and true interest of my
isodldngdoms.
L^JTon cannot but Jhave observed, with
' ^ suitable, to the ocoasiouj the
[dangers that threaten Europe;,
and more immediately such parts of the
continent as shall withstand or resist the
formidable powers which are confederated
for the subversion or reduction of the
House of Austria. The apptehension of
these things was communicated to the last
parliament : when both Houses expressed
their ereat concern for the troubles which
were oroke out in the Austrian domi-
nions, and came to the strongest resolu«
tions in fitvour of the queen of Hungary,
for the maintenance of the Pragmatic
Sanction, and for the preservation of the
balance ofpower, and the peace and li-
berties of Europe. And had other powers,
that were under the like engagements
with me, answered the just expectations
they had so solenmly eiven, the support of
the common cause had been attended widx
less difficulty.
** I have, pursuant to the advice of my
parliament, ever since the death of the
late emperor, exerted my setf in the sup-
port of the House of Austria. I have en-v
deavoured, by the most proper and early
i^yplications, to induce other powers that
were equally engaged with me, and united
by common interest, to concert isuch mea-
sures as so important and critical a con*
juncture required. And where an accom-
modation seemed to me to be necessary^.
I Uiboured to reconcile those princes
whose union would have been the most
effisctual means to prevent the mischiefr
that have happened, and the best security
for the interest and safe^ of the whole.
** Although my endeavours have not
hitherto had the desired effect; I cannot
but still hope that a just sense of the
common and approaching danger will pro-
duce a more &vourable turn m.the coun«
sels of other nations. In this situation, it
is incumbent upon us to put ourselves in
a condition 'to improve all opportunities
that shall oftr, for maintaining the liber-
ties of Europe ; and to assist and support
our friends and allies, at such times, and
in such manner, as the exigency -and cir-
cumstaniSes of affiurs shall require ; and
to defeat any attempts that shall be made
against me and my dominioi|S, or against
those whom we are most nearly concerned-
for, and in honour and interest engaged to
support and defend.
** Gentlemei^ of the House of Com-
mons;
<< I have ordered Estiniates to be laid
before you, for the service of the ensuing
year ; and I must desire you to grant me
such supplies as the ctrcumstances of
1833
15GEOBGSU.
affiurg require; whidi you may depend
Hpou ^ BluJl be duly applied to the pur*
poses for which they shall be given.
** My kurdfly and gentlemen ;
<< t have, during the course of my reign,
ha4 so much experience of the duty and
affection of ^y parliaments to my person
and government, and of their zeal for the
good of their country, and the support of
the common cause ; that I do, with the
greatest reason, rely upon the continuance
of. them in the present conjuncture.
There never was a time in which your un-
animity, vigour, and diqiatch, were ne-
caasary to so many great ends as those
which are now before you. I wiU do my
part ; let it appear, by your procaedin^^
and resolutiens, tluit you have dwl lust
and hearty concern for them, which their
importance requires/'*
Debate iti'th^ Lard^ <m tie Addrtu ^
Th»ak^\ } His Mi^esly having retired.
The Earl ^Makon rose and said x^
Mylorda; though the present perpleuty
of our a£urs, the contrade^ of opinions
* " The remarkable caution with which his
majesty had always mentioned any thio^ re-
latiDg to auy of bis allies, made this Speeco the
more taken notice of. It was plain that it
wae Mt dietite^ by the aiiaistar, beeeiiae the
tnwsntinas aKuded t» ia it, hsppeaed when
Uaaittesky WW abroad; asd indeed arBobcrt
Walff»U had aflste done aU ha oooUl to ea-
coursffa tlia aoanimaus aedor that aapeaeed ia
the pfSUic in favo«ir af the queen of Huagary .
But he was aa yet extremely doubtful as to
the complexion of the Bouse. His enemies
had gready outdone him in their assiduities to
A>rn ii ; nor M he eare to faazaid a diTiston
apaa liie adApess, wbieb iMwoaoeemd in very
gancflaiyifnatvagaey tanaa.'* Tiadal.
t Fsaaa the Gantlamns^s Mafwae: osaai^
piledby Hr. Jebnsoa. ' ^\ ;
I From the Seeker Manusci^t, ,
Dae. 4. Kiaf'aSpeash. *
MaUm. Moved' aa Address, &c. ^
JUagdaa. Iicaaaii^a^iostnapasticalaa
lAthamaliea: but raftam to the oM method:
vote aa. Addi«sa of Thaaks kir his majesty's
Speech, and if you will, thoag^ thaf is goiaa
^rther than the oM way« congratulation en his
safe return: then name a* Comaittee and
nropose, if you think fit, that such andsnch
mtruetions be gfren te the Comnrittee, and t
Shan agiee to an that bsnre been mentioned^
Chuitrfiekk I wishi oould go aa far as
tka naU^tedwfaaspaloBlsat russhlcssM
C«
Dehia4 in the Lord*
produced by it, and the warmth with whi
each opinion will probably be sappo^ti
might justly discourage me from prbpoi
any of my sentiments t6 this great HoiS
yet I cannot repress my indinationtod
a motion, in my opmmn reeukirandii
sonable, and whien, If it diould ana
otherwise to your lordships, will, I U
though it should not be received, at ij
be forgiven, because I have, never bei
wearied your patience, or intemiptet
retarded your consultations. [
But I am' very far from iaiagioiag thij
this motion I can^give 9^j occaiioQ tai
bate or op^ition, becaiM i ahsttpm
no ianovatmn in the principles, or ijn
ti<m of the practice oi this Home, i^
tend any thing more than to k^ bdj
your lordshipa my opkiion of the mail
m whidi ii may be; paoper ta addfiui]
msieslTa
^- To return Urn t|ie Thaah of |
House, for bis moat gvacioiisspeeQkj
the throne; and to coo^^ttdate bii
jesty 001 his safe and happy return
this kingdom.
'< To declare our thanbitihiefiSy f<vj|
make oompliments. His maiesty sbooldjj
my tribute unasked and unaskinfif. fi
go no ftrther than thanks for his S]h
seal for his person. Compliments have^il
fiital lenjfth. I wish the atfvisere of tbe 1
Speech hadadnsei him td teK us i
saa maay matires lar ceosaae, nsbe ftrd
prohatiaB, att for distraat £uv«peisw^
the situatian which twe wars wen wm
preveat, and this almost without aaarTI
House of Austria ia no more, and cas «i
be reunited, and this is the effect of bum
pursued with abilities and tending to W
from 17S1. If onr ftdnrinistrBtion badUJ
French eae, they would have beatt6e<ii
in.tbe world. Prem the death sf tfic 1
pcror every body sawtlieie wcw pawendA
mg and apfrovnig daims. The atRsiAl
each ^MBs kaowvn ; and besides, theoaemd
power ofJPruBsia appeared: a ieooBCtflp|
'sh.ouk) have been brought about at anrM
by 'shewing each their danger. And m
jcan he no dispute between England addPHi
te hinder it. The plan forn^ed was iM^I
rtrofcdbyme. But evten thM wss IK tiMrt
We bsodffat t^ektngof Pnism at (Mtll
IrsBodlj cOBTersation with Fvaiioe; Wesa
»eaC preperatieas, sod tthen^ webad aadfif
but was- net that known.? No aation (a 1
rope bal& cuQfidence in you. You bsrshj
endeavouring to destroy the 06ase of i«^
The putch could not act with you sTone. !J
alliance w&s treating with Russia by a midi
of abUity. It is ikB, and'if I mistake lil
be Ml rights Chat ibis^ treaty iS^mSeimMi
As to ethec paarbrs, eould we i
IB)
mk the AdArtts of Thanks.
A. D. 1741-
[226
bAfttt c4>&eern hts majesty }m ^xpr^ssed,
%r ctfijing OQ the ju8t and n^ce^ary war
jgiiBst Spun ; and how fiilly sensible we
^ of the inkpending dangeHB to which
Jbrope is exposed in the present cobjuhc-
ftve; and particidarij of the e?il conse-
Lbno «f Hanaery would offer them what
Kinee would oner theaiy out of what was not
[W own. Wf took foreign troops into onr pay,
W dwn aR (hided by a nentrality which mi^ht
lie KOOBsry, bat the neoetsity was eaiiiy
■Mci, aiNl We pot oarseiyet in opposition
hriftMttilnhg nieasoretlo adake it eifectaal.
I 1 vflh f oOoW dinw a yr4fA aver the manage-
iMstoftbewar with 8p«in. How have our
jNtfopcdiliona heea crmddetadf We have
^*-*^ Id new mi^ soldiers, a sickly nngor
and one who was a brigadier too
to have experieaca. Pomtis took
with b,W» in all. We had 8 or
To the rest af Serope the conduct of
iqvidfOD, if anottifhinent were left,
be the greatest in tha world. With a
iQpcriar be hath served as an escc^rt to
the aietny had a miod to do. He hath
tbem embark aad go for Italy about tbe
of the neotrality. Their embarkation
carried oa in the open road of Barcelona
tiro moflths with only three men of war,
1 we had no disquiet about this. Last vear
) Spaaiards embarked, and we sailed mm
[la protect Minorca. Why no concern
r Hinopca now ? This only piece of service
' 'i we oOttld do the queen of Hungary was
Hie. Not a lord doubts what my conjec-
II befiae I mention it. This must nave
10 consequence of discourse with some
I of 6pain. They most have been mad to
\ 14«000 of their best troops had they not
I tare n6t to be attacked. I apprehend
I was m consequence of the neutrality and
* ralent given for it. These are the con-
I of all Britain, of all Enrope. On the
of October the French embassador de-
in H(4land, that a neutrality was con-
1 60 tlie term.** of not assisting the queen
'Boagary, and accepting a peace with
^1 OB the mediation of France. The king's
there denied it, when it was con-
I or concluding. This is the reason why
allies will not confide in yon, year right
I hatb deceived your lefl.
The dispositions of the king of Sardinia
He hath denied a passage to the
troops, and hath armed, and we have
\ ibem come, and now he must make the
. Itemisbecan.
;11witate of onr Domestic • Aflfkirs is very
Yon have in pay more national land
\ than at any time of the late war, and
Hdiqis in commisaion. Tbe common cause
aot been supported by your army ; it
i Boi acted out of Westminster. Yon*bave
national troops and 11^,000 others.
Itoe demanded for the queen af Hungavy
[VOL XII. ]
quences arising from the designs and en-
iterprizes formed and carrying on for the
subversion or reduction of the House of
Austria, which threaten such apparent
mischiefs to the common cause.
" To acknowledge his majesty's great
she never had. Yet they cannot have been
concluded by the noutratity, for they.are in
English pay. But money, which it was said
she did not ask for, hath been given her. You '
have 50,000 men belonging to your ships. Yet '
you have neither annoyed the enemy nor pro- '
tected trade: 300 merchant ships have been
taken since the war began, and the king of
Spain lays an indolto of 1.5 per cent, upon our
ships as be doth on the galleons. I hope Had-
dock, if he is dead, will not be loaded. Had he '
not ships enough P Why was he not reinforced
by sir. J. Norris's squadron? Till it appeara'
that he had orders to act, it must be thought
he h^ orders not to act.
CholmondtUy. Not the Speech, much less the
motion, hath called for what the noble lord
hath said. Never was a speech of niore con-
descension and paternal car<e. It is below vou
to build on newspapers and such like autho-
rity. We. gave assistance to the queen of
Hungary, m eiEpectation that other' powers *
would join. We exhorted the Dutch to it
without delay. We sent to Dresden and held •
the same language at the court of Russia. If
their affairs would not let them hearken, ia
that the fault of your niinistry ? There was
300,000/. given the queen of Hungary, and
our 13,000 men were joined with the trooj^ .
of Hanover, and obliged tbe king of Prnssia
to form an army of 35,000 men to observe ]
them at a distance from tbe scene of warl '
Dates will strengthen facts in fiivour of tbe
administration both at sea and land. The fleet
of France was as much and more to be '
guarded agamst than that of Spain ; but these
are thinsfs for a future enquiry.
Halifax, An Address cooked up by the
minister in answer to himself eannot carry
weight and dignity in it. We have no thanks
to give, no confidence to repose. I speak the
language of a free man. God knows how
long we may be able. We might have ex-
pected to have been told from the throne
whence our misfortunes rose. An Address of
condolance would be the proper thing on this
occasion : to grieve with the king for, &c. &c. '
One of our admirals hath been dancing about '
the sea like the master of a packet boat, and '
another keeping his station to let loose Spain
upon Hungary.
Rayiffond,
Carteret. There never was a time since the
nation existed that required more care in what^
we say to tbie crot|(fi. Persons witliout doOrs .
and fbreign poweA tndiy mistake as and wa ;
may delude the crown. A thing is said in the
Speech, which I am sure the king believes, and
ha knows more than a^ body about him, and
[a]
4S7} 15 6B0R6B U.
goodness, in expressing so earnest a desire
to receive the advice of his parliament ;
and to assure his majnty, that this House
will not fail to take the important pobts
which he has recommended to us into our
most serious consideration; and, in the
JkhOeimiheLonk
[9B
I
et I would not confirm him in it He says,
le hath done all he could for the House of
Austria. We shall be able to make him
change bis opimoD. I hope to open the eyes
of the world on this occasion. The liherty
and repose of Europe is almost lost ; after
which we shall not keep ours long. But still
there are three good symptoms and glimmer-
ings ol'hope. 1. Sereral appearances that
can be accounted for by nothiiig hot the king
of Prussia seeing his own interest. S. The
king of Sardinia seems to judge right,, and is
armed to the lop of his strai^. 3. The.
Dutch are not come into a neutiality, and I do
not believe they will. But at the same time
the Spaniards are gone unoM>le8ted to Italy,
who might have been stopt with a word, or
Haddock might have been with them in 4 days.
He had 16 ships of the line, besides 5 or 6
othefs. If the 13 French had joined the
Spaniards we should probably have beat them
both. But we were afraid of meeting them
lest we should beat them. It is possible this
may have happened by chance, but we shall
never convince any body of that Whenever
the House of Austria is destroyed, some other
gre^ house will be desu^yed. Have we
meant to gain the aueen of Spain by sacri-
ficing the queen of Hungary ? There n never
lesa than 500,000/. belongiojT to £ngl|sh nier>
chants in Leghorn, who wUl now seM their
ffoods at any price, and gi? e credit to any body.
In our circumstances we should say nothing
that looks like a compliment If thve is
connivance in the war, what are we about ?
France m ihat case will let you talk as high
as you please. But it is fact we must see.
I^et us not load the nation for nothing.
We have lost to the Spaniards )ierbaps
SyOOO sailprs : they iprow weary of their don-
eietins, and after a time act against us. In the
late war a scheme was found for poltuigan
end to capmres, by a squadron of ships in the
chops of the channel, which is much better'
than convoys: hath this method been taken P
If it hath, no faplt is to be found. This
method was discontinued in 1706, and then
captures returned, till the earl of Berkeley
cruised thera.
I said concerning that West Indies, that
whenever theSponuirds were attacked there
in an Europtsan manner, they would make no
bed restataoce. Did the troepa that were set
ashore at Carthagc^a do that ?
^rrington. fwas on the spot when the
nputmlity was treated of and made, and am
fully (tersnaded that no one titde of it affected
the king aa king of tbe^e nations. And from
thebegioniugto the collision of i^ I had
most dutiful manner^ to oler his majesty
such advice as shall appear to us to be most
conducive to the honour and true mtereit
of his crown and kingdoms.
** To give his nu^esty the strongest as*
surances of our inviolable duty, fidelity,
the king's order to declare this toaUbisnu<
nisters in all the courts of Europe.
Bathurst. From the event m. the Mediter-
ranean all power of protecting our allies ii
over. There wiU be or are 60,000 SfttDianis
in Italy. It was imsgined you hadffireoup
Italy for some good peace: but yoQbsTeaot
done that The oocasbn of making imme-
diate answers to the Speech from tbe tbraot
was, when aU Europe waa aUending to you.
They now expecty ou should consider nrst The
words of the Motion are usually enlarged io
the AddroH. The oqeeo of Hnngsry bid oU
the money till very lately, if she hath it all
yet. Tbe kin^ vaoommeads uasfumity. Why,
the nation is unanimous ns Io the conduct of
the war and the cause of all oar et ils.
JStwcMtic, The design of th^ latter part of
the motion is to support tbe glimmerio|fs ef
hope which a noble lord . mentioned, and let
foreign powers see our dispositions*. Nobody
hath a better opinion of Haddo^ck than 1, and
hope he is still alive. I am for losdiog nobody
livmg or dead. YoO will see in tinoe whether
there were net the strongest orders that could
be given Ao prevent this emliarkatioo. But
there have been three fleets hovering orer as
this summer, the Bi^st, Cadiz and Touloo, tod
unless we had fleets to watch each, acddeoti
nuy happen. Fbur ships were scot to Had-
dock two months ago, five more hare bees
watting tiU go three weeks, and there sreiwt
seven manned remaining to protect the king-
dom. The le ships at Brest oaight have coidc
and anchored in our channd and insulted of.
There was an appearence of an embarkaiioa
at Barcelona about Christmas last ; then ord^
were sent, and Haddock did go thither. TIm
last took ttu but a little time, yet 1 sm !|J^
loss bow he came not to know of it Jm
king of Sardinia hath not wanted and dotb
not want proper eBcooragement The valoe
of the prizes we have taken in thitf var is
aa great as of the 300 ships, if they hare takes
so many. We indeed have not an Indolto oo
tbe Spanish ships. Enquire into the coodort ,
of the administretion about ooMters sod cm-
era. The Emperor lost a great deal for pl^
ing the Saxon on the throne of Poland, ^
now the Saxon troops have taken Prague, tie
aufiered in the Turkish war forBu«aa, aufl
not a man hath been sent from tiiesoe la i^
turn. The treaty with Russia is sigQ^ ^
ratified, and on the road : which ia a fo^
glimmering, and in that treaty ff^^J^^^
hath been shewn to the Bouse of h^
Erery thing hadi been done by the k«? » »J
case of Pmua that could be, YetfoaJ*
not moved to fbank bim for it v^^
oil Ofi AMrM^fthimki.
ad iftfiiBi to Ikii fmmHb mA gt^^mt^
Mot, nd of oar Mai for the jfufeMnraUon
af the Pmmmm saoc6BBio& id hit sojral
holM; «ad tfatt #0 wiU tigoronriy and
beartil J concur m aU yga/t snd laeoesMry
'A. D. 1741.
t9J»
■ ■ ^a»MIIH Hit
sifrcy «f Eorope depends npon flie queen of
HiMgwy reuibhijr ber dooinioQs iiitire: aad
ikisitinHibe difficall to bring htm to,
llMrehath beeo as grent attention to the
v« ia tha West Indies as possible. The
fleets of France and Spain were sent infflori-
ousiy from thence. Oar troops behayed well
a Carth^ena. tf there was wrong conduct
is any coouDander, let il be examined into. If
tbecbf eoannaoder bad not the advantage of
ei|tfrime, this was owhig in part to the act
tiVimUmm, which took off two offiean, ooo
ffikmwmy coiivcfBaDt m the aiEwrs of the
Wotlodics.
;ir0jei A apeeoh of a different natare
mtghtlisTebeeD enected after so many tbingps
had happsoed« and no one in our favour. It
ibould bare been less general. It is very long
asd says nothing. We bate made a nentfaKty
B HsiDver : we have kept the 19,000 men
n tint coantry since the eentrali^f : we have
■miek off the assistance of 20,000 Hanove-
ram. The Freneh bad oO rtasoii to grant a
BMkiii^ and thei^fore omisi bava gianted it
w MOM tarns. Bui 1 will believe^ on the
dttbl of the noble lord, that there was no-
tdioif ifl it which respected the Medherra-
mriu, Wt have allowed the Spaniards to go
t§(o It^y. And we have indeed given part of
^ viamej to the qneen of Hungary, but no
pvtofit was given two months ago.
1 ftrstnU lest winter that they woold mio-
carry ia dM West Indies. Lord Catbcart had
ievcrwnred but as a major in Flandorsand a
bnttcaaat colooel in the Rebellioo. And they
'^ ofer 46 general officers to oome st him.
V^>vMd served under my eye, was a cap*
a^D aod under qnarter master general. But
vvn oommanded more than a platoon. I
iqnt the admtnistiMion of mistake and blon-
dff: aad tske shame to m3raelf for having'
^^m^ tbam ; dl hafth been designed, aad to
nis«apavar illagaj in this coontry. It is not
"■hniaevtoiB^irehow, buttoebarge: let
<^ prodnee Uietr deleuce if they can. 1 am
* *«l iafermed as the mtoistrf of what
FKedstGorthagena, and they did not do' a
*"#e ibiag fight lbere» yet they oontimie
^ *c«y p<wsn4hat both done wrong : who ia
i^hidfltbterwiie a wofthy and ^reneioos man.
<^chafa 100 rfiipa of tlie line m oammissien,
^^"di sretwioe as atany as France and Spain
^^ptWr; and of oUms* ships four times aa
*|">y. Bel we caooet have a ship sail, hot in
^wtvedaysitoasses back fm aoasethiog
*<^. None oftheaeamen say, that Had-
^ «» ost strong enoagh. Indeed ft>nT or
^«bipi bad beeo sufficient to destroy the
BsroaloBa. The governor and
i,aiidMByio(rdieefaitf
iBMlniree, for the defence aad support of
his BaBJestT, the naintenance of tne ba*
lanoe and liberties of Europe, and the as-
aii^tanoe of our allies.
^ That as duty, and affisction to his ma-
tt <*» mt^t to.i
oftdars of Port llfahon aie in England. And
the chief man there now, is one who got m
regioient this summer, and was but an ensiga
in the war. Sir J. Norris was sent out with a
fleet able to beat both jPranoe and Spain, but
all bis ships so foul that they could have sailed
throuffh him. NoNidy thought Haddock
wouldever have lived so long. IVbo is there
to command his fleet in case of bis dearb f
Yon have but three flag offiters: one bath
done every thing, the other two nothing ; hot
VemoB hath net made bis court by what be
baa done. - WiU yon, in the ciroemsianees yma
are in, aay any thing to such a Speech but ax-
proMions of duty ? As to the affairs of die em-
pire, it is impossible to revive tbem.
Hardwicke. C, The lord who spoke first
after the motion was ma^e admitted tliere was
no objection against any* particular thing m it.
The Address is not to the m'mistry, though it
be by the ministers' advice that the king makes
bis Speech. If you put a negative on ttie
support of the bahmee of £orope and of «your
alUes, tlie cause yon are engaged in is at aa
end. 1 verily beiieve lights will be given as
to the Spanish war, and wheu things coqie to
be considered, all Suspicions « ill vanish.
Carteret. I am willing to support our allies,
but do not put that now. There were strong^
words in the last addrets aboat the <jtlean of
Hungary, bat they did her no good, and she
will not mind these now. lam for, makings
an unequal address becaose it is such, if the
king inquires into the reason, he will find it
is, that we are not disposed to compliment the.
administration..
Argyte. The king of Pnissia will never have
any .transaction- with this administration. He
is certainly under engagements with the.
FVedch aad Saxons, and if be is to break
tbem, how can you tniat hiiA ? Sardinia hath
kept himself in a condition to nreat where bo
pleases; hot now ypu have disappointed hia
expectation about the Spaniards coming into
Italy be will have notbinc^ to do with us. The
queen of Hungary bad drawn her troops out
of Italy, thinkiDg herself safv there. If yon
address in the manner proposed, it wiM be*
intemreted a confldenoe in the adoitaiairaltom
AHngdon. The soener innovations are re-
moved the better : and the other motbed heiog:
the old C4istom will prevent all supposed in-
conveniences. Where a question is compli-^
cated like this, it ought to be divided. Story
of sir Toby Butler. *■ Have you t^ken the
oaths ?' ' Yes.' • Have you considered them ?*
« No, by my ahonl, if I bad considered tbem I
should never have taaken tbem t'
C. as^ of whkh I wwrone.
S31]
15 GEORGE IL
DOahmiieLmk
jesty are, in us, fi;xed and imalterfdile prii^
Giples^ 80 we feel the in^cessions of toem^
at this time, so strong and lively inour
breasts/ that we cannot omit to Uny hold
on this' opportunity of approaching his
royal presence, to renew the most sincere
professions of our constant and inviolable
fidelity : and to promise his majesty, that
we will, at the hazard of all that is dear to
us, exert ourselves for the defence and
]preservation of his sacred person and go-
vernment, the maintenance of the Protes-
tant succession in his royal house, on
which the continuance of the Protestant
religion, and the liberties of Britain, do,
under God, depend."
My lords, as this Adc ress will not ob-
itruct any fiiture enquiries, by any ajppro-
bation of past measures, either positive or
fmplied, 1 doubt not but your lordships
* wiU readily concur in it, and am persuaded,
that . it will confirm his majesty's regard
for our counsels, and confidence in ou;f
loyalty.
. Lord Lovd. :
My lords; the dangers whi^ have been
■ justly represented by his majesty, ought
to remind us of the importance of unuc^
circumspection in our conduct, and deter
us from any innovations, of which we may
not foresee the consequences, at a tinie
when there may be no opportunity of re-
pairing any miscarriage, or correcting any
taitstake,
' There appears^ my lords, not to be at
this time amr particular reason for changing
the form or our addresses, no privileges of
our House have been invaded, norany de-
signs formed against the public. His paa-
jesty has evidently not deviated from the
practice of the wisest and most beloved of
our British monarchs; he has, upon this
emergence of unexpected difficulties, sum-
moned the parliament to counsel and as-
sist him; and surely it will not be con-
sistent with the wisdom of this House to
encrease the present perplexity of our af-
fairs, bv new embarrassments, which may
be easily imagined likely to arise from an
address different from those which cus-
tom has established.
The prospect which now lies before us,
a prospect which presents us only with
dangers, distractions, invasions, and revo-
lutions, ought to Engage our attentions,
without leaving us at leisure for disputa-
tions upon ceremonies or forms. It ought
to be the care of every lord in this House,
not how to address, but how to advise his
m
pniDlic, and contribute io such deteraooM
tions, as may avert tlie calamities tbat v^
peikd over mankind, and stop the wilder
cursions of power and ainbition*
We oug^t to reflect, my Lords, thattlii
expectations of all Europe are railed h
the meeting of this parliament: and th
from our resolutions, whole nations m
waiting for their sentence. And hoiml
mankind be disappointed when they tU
hear, that instead t>f declaring w8rQ|M(
i^urpers, or imposing 'peace on the dh
turbers of mankind, mstead of equippig
navies to direct tlie course of commerce
or raising armies to regulate the state i
the continent, we met here in. a full «
sembly, and disagreed upon the fonni
an Address.
Let us therefore, my lords, layariji
at least for this time, all petty dctetesn
minute enquiries, and engaee all hi A
great attempt of re-estabTishing qajetl
Uie world, and settling the limits of di
kingdoms of Europe.
The Earl of Chesterfield .•♦
My lords; there is I find at least (M
point upon which it is probable thst didi
will now agree whose sentiments have II
therto been, on almost every occasill
widely different. The danger of our pii
sent situation is generally allowed; hi
the consequences deduced from it are i
contrary to eachother^ as ^ve little hop
of that unanimity which times of daagf
particularly reouire.
It is allegea by the noble lord ill
spoke last, that since we are now mvoht
in difficulties, we ought only to enq<4
how to extricate ourselves, andtherefa
ought not to leave ourselves the rights
* In the Collection of Dr. Jobosoo's Di
bates, this Speech is eiroaeously attiihuled i
lord Carteret.
<* Lord Chesterfield, who, in his inn
through other countries, oeyer lost sight ot'k
own ; and, while, in pursuit of hMllh si
amusement, did not neglect colleetiD^ m
terials, and preparing himself for boaooi
thought it proper to shew, that his oooiph
sance and partiality to the French did a
extend to their polities. Rccorered to k
former state of heakb, and animated bj[il
strong motives of national interest, and oilioi
honor, he tliundered out what may be caU
his first philijppic against the mioistry. Tli
speech was justly appiaoded by the sptike
on the other side, as wdl as on hii owa
Dr. Malv's Life of Lord Chsateifiahl.
M
oH'ih AddttU ^TlSanh.
A. D. 1741.
[SSI
Honioflioir we were entailed in th^m,.
B tiie perplenly of diflkrent coottdera-
m sbcNikL diKipate our attention, and
l^ble w from focming any uteful deter-
patMxu^ or exerting any vigorous efforts
aonrddiTefance.
,BqI» in my opinion, nay lords, the most'
0ik way or removing difficulties, is to
IpBUDe bofr they were produced, and by
j^rqiimrr to whom they are. to be im-
jUri ; for certainly, my lords, it is not
llie hoped that we diall regain what we
IM toit bat by measures diffisrent froo^
^vbach have reduced us to our pre-
pMtMe, and by the aadstance of other
auatfOorB than those who have sunk us
gotbeeontempt, and exposed us to the ra-
||nof every nation throughout the world.
!lhtt UitB enquiry, my lords, may be free
SOBobstructed, it is necessaiy.to address
llin^e, after the manner of our an*
llrtora, in ^nend tenns, without descend-
bto particular facts, which, as we have*
|l jet examined them, we can neither
fevare nor approve.
Itbssbeen objected by the noble lord,
^ foreign nations will be disappointed
1/ hearing, that instead ■ of menaces of
iMeance, and declarations of unalterable
permee to the liberties of Gurope, we
toe wMted our time at this important
tocture in settling theform of an address.
[That little time may be- wasted on this
Igcawn, I hope your lordships will very
ta^ agree to an Address suitable to
to dignity of those who make it, and to
be oocasion upon which it was made ; for
Unmot bat allowy that the present state
11 Am calls upon us for dispatch : but
Isogh business ought at this time un-
Isrirtedlj 10 be exf^dited, I hope it will
M be precipitated ; and if it be demanded
that the most important questions be first
letennined, I -know not any thing of
pester moment than that .before us.
How we shall gratify the expectations of
Eaekn powers, ought not, my lords, to be
^r first or chief consideration ; we ought
[ieitaii^first to enquire how the people may
to set free from those suspicions, which .a
& train of measures evioently tending to
ir their privileges, has raised; and
hiw they may be confirmed in their fideli-
|r to the government, of which they have
■r mafiy years found no other effiscts th^n
ItoB and exactions^ for which they have
pceived neither protection abroad, nor
toCQUBigement ajt home..
. But, BPf lerdsy. if it be necessary to con-
alt the inclinations, and cultivate the
estetoa of foreign powers, I believe no-
thing wiU raise more confidence in ouf
allies, if there be any who are not now
ashamed of that name, or more intimidate
those whose designs it is our interest to
defeat, than an open testimony of our re-
solution po longer to approve that conduct
by which the liberty of half Europe has
been endangered ; and not to lavish praiscjl
on those men who have in twenty years
never transacted any thing to the real be-
nefit of their country, and of whom it is
highly probable that they have in the pre-
sent war stipulated for the defeat of all our
attempts, and agreed by some execrable
compact to facihtate the exaltation of the
house of Bourbon.
Upon what facts I ground accusationa
90 Atrocious may justly be enquired bv
your lordships ; nor shall I find any dim*:
c^lty in answering your demand. For, if
we extend our view over the whole world,
and enquire into the state of all our affiura,
we shall find nothing but defbats, miscar-
riages, and impotence, with their usual con-
sequences, contempt and distrust. Weshall
discover neither any tokens of that fear
among our enemies, which the power of
the«natioD, and the reputation of our for-
ma; victories might naturally produce, noc
any proofs of that confidence among those
whom we' still continue to term our allies^
which the vigour with which we have for*
marly supported our confederacies, give us
a rignt to expect. Those whom we once
trampled insult us, and those whom we
once protected, give us no credit.
How reasonably, iny lords, all nations
have withdrawn from, us their reverence
and esteem, will appear by a transient
exammation of our late conduct, whether,
it regarded Europe in.eeneral, or infiu-
enced only the particular a&irs of the
British nation ; for it will appear beyond
possibility, of doubt, that whoever has
trusted the administration, whether their
own country, or any foreign powers, has
trusted only to be betrayed.
There is. among our allies none whom
we are more obliged to support than the
queen of Hungary, whose rights we are
engaged by all the solemnities of. treaties
to d^end, and in whose cause every mo-
tive operates that can warm the bosom ol
a man ,a£ virtue. Justice and compassion:
plead equally on her side, and. we are
called upon to assist her by our ewn inte-
rest, as well as the general duty df society,
by which every man is requircid to prevent
oppression.
fSl] 15 QE0R6E IL
jestyare, iniis» ii;xed«Dd unalteHiMe pri»-
oipies, so we fed the impressioiMi of tbem^
at this time, so strong and lively in our
breasts, that we cannot omit to lay hold
on this opportanity of appraadung his
royal presence, to renew the most sincere
professions of our constant and inviolable
fidelity : and to promise his majesty, that
we will, at the hazard of all that is dear to
us, exert ourselves for the defence and
preservation of his sacred person and go-
vernment, the maintenance of the Protes-
tant succession in his royal house, on
which the continuance of the Protestant
religion, and the liberties of Britam, do,
under God, depend."
My lords, as this Adc ress will not ob-
itruct any fbture enquiries, by any appro-
bation of post measures, either positive or
unplied, 1 doubt not but your lordships
will readily concur in it, and am persuaded,
that it will confirm his majesty^s regard
for our counsels, and conndence in ou;r
loyalty.
Lord Lovd :
My lords ; the dangers whi^ have been
• justly represented by his majes^r, ought
to remind us of the importance of unu^ial
circumspection in our conduct, and deter
us from any innovations, of which we may
not foresee die consequences, at a tinie
when there may be no opportunity of re-
pairing any miscarriage, or coi:recting any
mistake.
There appears, my lords, not to be at
this time amr particular reason for changing
the form of our addresses, no privileges of
our House have been invaded, norany de-
signs formed against the public. His paa-
jesty has evidently not deviated from the
practice of the wisest and most beloved of
our British monarchs; he has, upon this
emergence of ui^expected difficulties, sum-
moned the parliament to counsel and as-
sist him; and surely it will not be con-
sistent with the wisdom of this House to
encrease the present perplexity of our af-
fairs, bv new embarrassments, which may
be easily imagined likely to arise from an
address di^rent from those which cus-
tom has established.
The prospect which now lies before us,
a prospect which presents us only with
dangers, distractions, invasions, and revo-
lutions, ought to ^gage our attentions,
without leaving us at leisure for disputa-,
tions upon ceremonies or forms. It ought
to be the care of every lord in this House,
not how to address, but how to advise his
DOahit^iiBLmk
PW
nuMasCy; how toaiwt AeoooosdsoTth^
pjublic, and contribute to such detenmoa-l
tions, as may avert llie calamities tibstimJ
peikd over mankind, and stoj^ the wild ei-j
cunions of power and anibition.
We oug^t to reflect, my Lords, thattl
expectations of all Europe are raiwd I
the meeting of this pariiament: andt
from our resolutions, whole nations i
waiting for their sentence. And howwfll
mankind be di6^>pointed when they 6
hear, that instead of dedaring war u
i^urpers, or imposing 'peace on the disj
turbers of mankind, mstead of equipping
navies to direct the course of coaunercej
or raising armies to regulate the state o|
the continent, we met here in a full tsj
sembly, and disagreed upon the form d
an Address.
Let us therefore, my lords, lajr
at least for this time, all petty debates s
minute enquiries, and engaee sll m t
ereat attempt of re-establishing quiet iij
we world, and settling the limits of t'
kingdoms of Europe.
The Earl of Chesterfield .•♦ I
My lords; there is I find at least oo^
pomt upon which it is probable thst thoM
will now agree whose sentiments have hi
therto been, on almost every occasion
widely different. The danger of our m
sent situation is generally allowed; baj
the consequences deduced from it are M
contrary to each other, as ^ve little hopd
of that unanimity which Umes of dangd
particularly reouire. J
It is alleeea by the noble lord m
spoke last, wat since we are now invoH
in difficulties, we ought only to enquin
how to extricate ourselves, and therefod
ought not to leave ourselves the right (^
* In the Colleetwn of Dr. JobtisoD s Del
bates, this Speech is emmeouBly atuibuicd t^
lord Carteret.
I
'< Lord Chesterfield, who, io bis inni
through other countries, never lost sight oi b^
own ; and, while in pursuit of health soj
amusement, did not ne^ect oolleotin^ id>|
(erials, and preparing himself for boaocffj
tlionght it proper to shew, that bis oompUi
ssnee and partiality to the French did d(^
extend to their polities, fteoovered to m
former state uf heahfa, and aoionstcd hyw
strong motives of national interest, sod ostiopj
honor, he tliundered out what may be c&l|^
his first philippic against the mioistry. "p"
speech was justly spplaoded by the sp<w<^
on the other side, as wdl ss oo his owa«1
Or. Mate's lils of Lord ChsatsHisld
cviteWiny )«idi» tiito
of HuDgaiy has been ^
of the advantages vhich the ex«
froB her firwiMfaBm with this na-
\sj a degree of cowardice too
It be mentioxied without such
pi^as the importance of this debate,
|be dignity of this aaiembly, do not
h DOT Is It less certam from the con-
if her coemiesy that they knew what
lbs <Mir meaanrcB, and confided for
ijtj is that cowavdice which has never
iHOiedtheoi.
eMial» Bsy lords, be asserted, that
^^kvever distressed, has jet re-
lilkkast assistance from our arms ;
{r ths justice of our cause has yet
lUe te awaken our virtue, nor the
imion of her interest with our
Is excite our vigilance. '^.
itperhsps, my lords, we have had no
rtoBitir of exerting our force ; per-
^ ntsatkm both <^ our enemies and
miiich, that neither the one could
itected, nor the other opposed, hj a
power; and therefore oi^r inactivity
hsdfcet not of want of courage, but
sfopportuaity.
mgb our niniaters, my lords, have
rlo^eioo eminent prooA of geo-
U imeiriedge, or or very accumie
lihilsiice with tlie state of foreign
BdOf jet there is reason to believe
p^nost at seme time have heard or
ilhtt the house of Austria had terri*
isltsljr; they must hare been in-
limdMs their disbunements fir se#>
A. D. 1741.
[«»
Ivioesre bestowed with very little
M, that against these domimons an
^hesn raised by the Spaniards;
kjrmiat have discoveced, partly by
of thw correspondents,
hjr die inspeetion of a map, and
^.hj the sigacily which distingtuBhes
ifem sU pset and present ministers,
jllhb army was to be transported by
gM the coast of Spain to that of Italy.
'^' bowkdge, my lord^ however at-
sught have fiuBidied minds, which
|e been found so fruitful of ex*
wilhamethod of hindering t^
flf the Sjpanish troops, for which
a»iewss necessary than that they
bft oadered admiral Haddock, in-
of leliiing before the Spanosh fleet
> sad watching them only that they
escape, to lie still before Barcdeoa,
^*e txsQsports were stationed, wbh
||Mejrsf only three men of war, and
PMrtUi departure.
I hQp^it wiil be observed bjr your lord-
ships, that though the road of Barcelona
is open and indefensible, though the fleet
was onpratected by ships of force, and
though they lay, as I am mformed, beyond
the reach cf the guns on the fortifications
upon the shore, I do not reauire that Had*
dock should have destroyea the army and
the ships;
I am too well acquamted, my locds,
with the lenity of our ministers to the ene-
mies of their oountrr, and am too well
convinced of the prudence and tendemesa
of the restrictions by which the power of
our admirals is limited, to expect that oxtr
guns should be ever used but m'salutatioai
of reepect, or exultations on the condU'^
sion Ota peace. I am convinced that oojt
ministers would dhudder at ^e name of
bloodshed and destruction, and that they
had rather hear thata thousand merdtanta
were made bankrupts by privateers, or idl
our allies deprived of their dominions, than
that one Spanish riiq^ was sunk or burnt
by the navies of Britam.
But, my lords, though they are williog
to spare the blood of their enemies, yet
surely they might have obstructed tfaekr
enterprises; they might have wtthhdd
those whom they were unwiUinv to strike^
and have endeavoured tb fright mose %hooi
th^ determined never to Imrt. '
To speak in terms more adapted to the
subfect before us : that the fleet of Spain^
a fleet dP transports widi such a convoy,
should He three weeks in an open road,
professedly fitted out against an dly united
to us by every tie of nature and of po-
licy, by the solemnity of treaties, and con-
formitv of interest ; that it should lie un-
disturoed almost within sight of a British
navy; tliat it should lie there not only'
without danger, but without apprehension
of danger, has raised the astomshm«Eit of
every naiion in Eorope, has blasted the
reputation of our arms, impaired the in-
fluence of our counsels, and weakened the
credit of our public foith.
There may be some, my lords, that wiQ
impute this absurdity of our conduct, this
disregard of our interest, this deseitton of
our idliai>ces, and this neglect of the mds|
apparent opportunities of success, not io
cowardice but treadiery, a cause mere de-;
testable as more atrociously criminal.
This opinieis, my lords, I think it not
necessary to oppose, both because* k can-
not be charged with imprebabiliVyx and*
because I think, it ma^ be easily reconciled'
witib my own assertionsr for cowardice^
S30} 15 GEORGE IL
abroftd produces treabhery at home; afid
they become traitors to their country who
are hfpdered by cowardice from the pro-
secution of her mterest, and the opposition
of her enemies.
It may however be proper to dedare,
tny lords, that I do not impute this fiital
cowardice to those who are entrusted with
the command of our navies, but to those
£rom whom they are obliged to receive
their iostroctions, and upon whom they
vdiappily depend for the advancement of
their rortunes.
It is at least reasonable to impute mis-
carriages rather to those, who are known
to have given formerly such orders as a
bvave admiral (Hosier) perished under the
Ignominious necessity of observing, than
to those of whom it cannot be said that
any former part of their lives has been
stained with the reproach of cowardice ;
at least it is necessary to suspend our
judgment, till the truth shall be made ap-
parent by a rigid enquiry ; and it is thete-
fore proper to offer an address in general
terms, by which neither the actions or
counsels of any man shall be condenmed
nor approved*
It would be more unreasonable to charge
our soldiers or our sailors with cowardice,
because they have shown even in those
actions which have failed of success, that
they miscarried rather through temerity
than fear; and that whenever they are
suffered to attack their enemies, they are
ready to march forward even where there
is no possibility of returning, and that they
are ohly to be withheld from conquest by
obstacles . which human prowess cannot
surmount.
. Such, my lords, was the state of those
heroes who died under the walls of Car-
thagena ; that died in an enterprise so ill
concerted, that I ventured, with no great
skill in war, and without the least pretence
to prescience, to foretel in this House that
it would miscarrv.
That it would, that it must miscarry;
that it was even intended only to amuse
the nation with the appearance of an ex-
pedition, without any oesign of weakening
our enemies, was easily discovered ; for
why else, my lords, was the army com-
posed of men newly drawn from the shop
and from the plough, unacquainted with
the use of arms, and ignorant of the very
terms of military discq>line, when we had
among us large bodies of troops long kept
milder the appearance of a regular esta-
Uisiunent, troops of whom we have long
Delaie in tke Lards i
Mi the oxpence, bttt of wUeh die tii
not, it seems, yet come, that we 9i
know the use.
These men, my lords, who have so
practised the motions of battle, and
nave given in the Park so man v pro<|
their dexterity and activity, who in
least learned to distinguish the difl
sounds of the drum, and know the
and voices of the subaltern office
least, might have been imagined \
qualified for an attempt upon a fo
kingdom, than those wno were necea
strangers to every part of themifitai]
rations, and might have been sent
our first declaration of war, while th^
raised forces acquired' at home tbei
arts under the same inspection.
But, my lords, Aether it was iioa
that new forces would be long before
learned the implicit obedience nea
to a soldier ; whether it was imagino
it would not be easy on a sodden to o
*troops of men so tall and wdl-propoTtij
or so well skilled in the martial al
curling and powdering their hair; 01*
ther it would have been dangerous tol
deprived the other House of the cd
and votes of many worthy membeni
had at the sam^ time a seat in theji
ment and a commission in the army,!
thought necessary to send out rawi
to attack our enemies, and to kee|
disciplined troops at home to awe tli
tion. »
Nor did the minister, my lords, di
sufficient to obstruct the expeditid
America by employing new raised ti
unless they were likewise placed
the command of a man, who, thoc
undoubted courage, was, with resp
the conduct of an army, as igacni
themselves. It was ther^ore aetem
my lords, that all those officers wild
gained experience in former wars^
purchased military knowled^ by pe
danger, should be disappointed an
jected for the sake of aavaocrog a
who, as he had less skill, was less iik
be successfol, and was therefore)
proper to direct an expedition pro
only to intimidate the British nation.
That the event was such as might
expected from the means, yoor loinUi
need not to be informed, nor can it
questioned with what intentk)ns tb
means were contrived.
I am very far, my lords, from chsrgi
our ministers with iffnorance, or upbn
ing them with mistdces on- this ocean
MI]
en the Address qfl%afda*
A. D. 1741.
[sn
for their whxAe condoct has been uniform^
ud an their scheBies consistent with each
other: nor do I doubt their knowledge of
(be coDseqaence of their measures^ so far
13 it was to be foreseen by human pru-
dence.
\l1ietfaer they have carried on negocia-
tioDS, or made war ; whether they have
conducted our own af&urs, or those of our
aliy the queen of Hun^y, they have still
diuOTeTdl the same intention, and pro-
moted it by the same means. They have
ni&red the Spanish fleets to sail first for
fopp^ from one port to another, and
thenfitiiii the coasts of Spain to those of
Amaica. They have permitted the Spa-
fliaids, without opposition, to land in Itiuv,
when it was not necessary even to with-
holJ them from it by any actual violence ;
for had the fleet, nay lords, been under my
comniand, I would have only sent thie
punish admiral a prohibition to sail, and
an lore it would have been observed.
They have neglected to purchase the
friendship of the king of Prussia, which
night perhaps hove been obtained upon
easy toms, bat which they ought to have
gaioed at whatever rate.; and' to conclude,
we have been lately informed that the
Beatrality is signed.
Such, my lords, is the cpnduct of the
ainistry, l^ which it cannot be denied
tbat ve sre invdved in many difficulties,
tod expoied to great contempt ; but from
^ coDtempt we nay recover, and disen-
tanj^ ourselves from these difficulties by
a vigorous prosecution of measures oppo-
ste U) those by which we have been re-
placed to our present state.
If ve consider without that confiision
v^ch fear naturally produces, the circum-
Kaoces of our affiiirs, it will anpear that we
^^ opoortunities in our hanos of recover-
Bgourloaes,and re-establishiDg- our re-
pQtatioii; those lasses which have been
^ofered while we had two hundred ships
of war at tea, which have permitted three
hundred merchant ships to be taken ; and
tint leoutation which has been destroyed
*vn there was no temptation either to a
compliance with our enemies, or to a de-
Kition of oar friends.
It it wdi known, my lords, that we make
^ tt present rather with the queen than
^peonle of Spain;' and it is^ reasonable
to conclude, that a war carried on con-
^ to the ^neral good, and against the
Itoeral opinion, cannot be lasting.
It is oertam that the Spaniards, when-
^ they have been attacked by men ac-
qtiatnted with the science of war, imd fur-
nished with necessary stores for hostile at*
tempts, have, discovered either ignorance
or cowardice, and have either fled meanly
or resisted .unskilfully.
It is therefore probable, my lords, that
either our enemies will desist from the
prosecution of a war which few of them ap-
prove ; or that- we shall by vigorous de*
scents upon their coasts and their colonies,
the interruption of their trade, and the
diminution of their forces, soon compel
them to receive peace upon our own
terms.
But these advantages, my lords, are
only to be expected from a change of con-
duct, which change can never be produced
by a seeming approbation of the past
measures. I am' therefore of opinion, that
we ought to address the throne in general '
tei;ms, according to the ancient practice of
this House.
In considering the Address pressed, I
cannot but conclude that it is too much
diffitsed, and that it would be more forcible
if it was more concise : to shorten it will
be no difficult task, by the omission of all
the clauses that correspond with particular
parts of his majesty's speech, which I can- *
not discover the necessity of repeating.
In the congratulation to his ma|esty
upon his return to his once glorious domi-
nions, no lord shall concur more readily
or^ore zealously than myself; nor shall I
even deny to extend my complimi^nts to
the ministry, when it shall appear that
they deserve them ; but I am never willing
to be lavish of praise, because it becomes
less valusble b^ being prodigally bestowed ;
and on occasions so important as this, I
can never consent to praise before I have
examined, because enquiry comes too late,
after approbation.
The Earl of Cholmonddey :
My lords; if the dangers that threaten
our happiness and our safety be such as
they have been represented ; if ambition
has extended her power almost beyond a
possibility of resistance, and oppression^
elated with success, begins to design no
less than the universal slavery of mankind ;
if the powers of Europe stand aghast at
the caIaQ:iities which hang over them, and
listen with helpless confusion to that storm
which they can neither avoid nor resist,
how ought our conduct to be influenced
by this uncommon state of affiiirs? Ought
we not to catch the alarm while it is pos*
sible to make preparation^ against the
[R]
us\
15 GSOIKSS n.
i^kat^inlttlMrdf^
m
ifae tttt&mt difigcttoe, tiM lyutiaat '
vul f C0 unite our cooimIb tor tfa* p
tmt of Ibtttjr, And «x«rt di aor
against the commoii eniiaM ^ lodedr^
th% unweaiied diitotan of tha tran^l-
lilyofntnluiid?
To what parpens* toj lordf, are ilia ni'-
aariea that Ihe pnaMat ^distiactiaas of £«-
itipa mar Mng upaa us* aa patiigriCTiHy
daicnl^^aoA so aocuietaiT anataamtaid^
If tfaey ara to Mtidbce tto cobctvpaaoat
aovosafeif And wiorttAwtaaaba i^iAad
from them, but unanimity, with that w
gour a«Mi dNpatek whiok aia iia oaaaral
caaMqueuaaa, aaitiKytaaQBaa withwliicii
acaadiDaaft aad aocpaditim «a gaaaiaUy
tvmidad? «
It ofiglit ba liap«iy \dy lords, diit tkaia
Wka hava sa daar n www of wur
xagaaitT aaia
acuteness expose them to a saaaMHtf af
mabanatanMBits, aad whaaa
: war pMBflat
mf^tj mi
lutttve aaisarias, pailiapi mora paiaifolaum
would Resetted by «ay praeat aad raal
aataflHttias, skooai not te thas aaranwd ta
Ao parpata. E? ery pMion, my lords, tiai
Its propar ab§act by whick it aaaiy be laiwl*
a% j^Mad, and wvary dhpaaMaa af
ittiiidtWfbediiwtadtoiaMMaada. tbm
true usa af Chat fbiangiit af ftituraa«eass»
Willi which same chnt cspadtias ava so
cmiaaatly laadowed, is that of pradaetag
aMttiaa aadauMaatiag tmedioats. Wliat
advaibtsM^ m V kvds» woald it ba aa Mvi'^
gatans that tfeoir pilot ooald by mty pra*
tema^oialfoawr discover saodi amoks,
If ha was taa wsgligeat or too stolibori ta
torn the vassal out of thedangar?
Or how> fay lords, to pursae tha campa*
ffisoo, ii^auld that pilot ho tswated kfy iha
eraw,who,aftarkanfig infotaoed tham of
Iteur sppraaA t» a siiaal or wMrlpool* aftd
set before them, with all his fhoi^rici tha
horrors of a.8hipwreck» shoald^ iastead of
directing them to avoid destruction, and
ttstttite their endesEiKMirs for Uiohr com-
aK>A safety, annise them with the laisasr'^
ftages of past vfmges, and the Moidors
, SRid stupidity ^their fbrmar pilot ?
Wfaelh^ an^pmilelcan be fonned he*
tweeen such iiUimed sirtm, and wild
taisconduct, and the namer in wtiioh
your lordships have been treated oa this
oooasioo, it 16 not my province to deter-
mine. Nor have I any ol^ker design than
to show that the only proper coi^uct in
time of real danger is preparation i^ainst
k, and that wit and ekxiuence themselves,
if employed to any ooier purpose, lose
ilieir excoHenoe, because *^ loso their
propriety,^
it dote Mt appear, mf tordsi ihst i
Addrasa itfNr prapoaed^ iftdudss anya
prabatiOaaf past maasukes, andthvvfiti
it is naedkas to ea4uif« oo this oootai
wbather the coadn^ af aar SimiskeBii
admirals deserves praise or censure.
It does not .appear, aiy iords, tint I
ceasunof anr fMfft of our late osqAh
howavar detrmiaBital to the pablie ttm
at jpraseat ha imaginad^ luiy af aur lott
wdi ba repaired, or any partof aarrcpat
tnsi retrieved; aad ttierefore, sadi pa
tiaadiags wottU oaky tetvd oar coensil
hod dimt ourthooghtaiiwm maraioM
beat oonsidarations; aiassidstaiioBsife
Us tnijafiay hsK raoammaBdad to in,sl
wImIi oaaaot be meae auooghr piaai
upea OS ahaa by tihe bdMb tod who d|
pesed she siAian; fcr iia asost peaeifij
■ttitei Oo aiadintaQBty asd aateaitioh, ah
asDst strongly repraaeata the danger sfts
Oftisegeed
tUtis, I anad nst riSMn'Ki," mf hr^h
^bif warn fnm the font ODdaaNMril
end; ffoai'ilie ra«Ofiingi sad df
RMS of nany individnds of diftM
seadiaa, indinatMBis, (add aHpa-iMoe,«
directed to the illusttatian of thesaai
eoastaoa, whkdi is therefore sa accuiald|
dJacessed, sa vanoasly illustrated, aal^
laaply displayed, that, a
sm view is obtaioed of ita rahaiaBB ad
tfamoasi be hoped Imdl
wisdioia er kftowtedge of aory siagle SHW^
Rist this adaaaaage, any lords^ cai as^
be expected from utiMii and oaoounena^
for when the diftieat laemben «f saa
tiottal oeanctf eaoar with diifaieotdeaip^
aadeaDsit tbeir abilities not aoaaidiia
proaaele asiy geaexal purpoass, ai is aki
■mea, and coafosa
viaia the aaewiMa, and coafosa the smu
Mains of each other, the piMc k m
pRvad of alltba beeedi that might baaai
pected from die oofleotivawiMtoasfsi*
samblies) wbMaverasay be thecspscitjtf
those who oomposethem. llMiparbtmeili
dius dividdl and disturbed, will periufi
ooadodo with laes pnideaoe disn mfi
sia^k Miamber, as any man ms^ sMi
easily discover truth without saa^sseai
than when otfaers of equal abiiitiss aseam-v
ployed in perplexing his enoairiesi asi
mterraptiag the operations of flb mmd.
Thos, my loids, it mi^t he asfer fort
nation, even in time of teiror aaddfaoeto^
to be deprived of the ooeesela sf tUt
House, than to confide ia tba detertsiiift-
tioosof a paiiiaBMAtsM waifomiB^
«]
emilkJl4im^Tl^nks.
A. JK nw.
[m
nrijanenl ten vhMi MMk c«i be iMfsA
bjT dww ifb« obMVft tkal il cttUMi vitk*
out a udMi d[ibBi% prohnred vitb ail the
kflilaf cfpaaMBB^diapiill^ tko flral«ad
■flit cunvj pait «{ piibUc b»ffiiiftiiyaff
■idnttteUamioMkY.
It has been for a Jeng line a pactice
laofiifientv to confiiiUKl paatwitb pre-
anH fieiliaBi^ Itt perplex evenr debele
hf an ftMJhaa amldphGaliQn of olijoeta»
aA taabrtrwrlmr delerainatuma by iuIh
rtitQiiBg QM CBquirj in the place of an-
Tlre mkf qnantiim, my knrdiy mnr he-
faeai ii» iriiHber Ihe Addreaa wbidi the
aahblard propoaed, iaaplies any comment
Mob of fiaat naeafiires, sot whetbar
thott aMiurea deaerre te be oaaameacltd ;
aiack b an enquiry w»t at paeaent to be
ponaad, baoaiae we faa^e not now before
u thtmtam of attaaawr aatiafiictioii in it,
ad wUefa aogbl alierefere to be debyed
ifl it AaB be joom lordahipa' pleaaure to
ippoat a day rev czanuBoig tbe atate of
m aatiao, and to deoaand tboae letten^
Madianay mod iiicaieriala» vbidi arene«
nmry to an aeeurale and parlianeiitaiy
Ia tbe mean time, aince it ia at kaat aa
fapeftaal fv naio to vindioUe, aa for
eben to ataua tboae af whose conduct
they aor I have yet any regular
aoe, aaid I aeay juallv expect from
te eaHlaiir of Tmr tordMipe, that yoo
■i be aa leat willing to heer an apolegiat
thaaenaenr, 1 will Tontere to auapoid
^ nt anaaiinn m few monenta, to jui tify
tlaicaBdaetwkMi baa been ao wantonly
^ to eoalBMtuDaaly derided.
Tkt tka prewmtMB of Ao Houae of
Aoeria, ay kada, ougbl to eagaga tbe
mm anaatmi of the Briliah valioB, ia
MyraafaaiBA It ia eaadeet that by bo
^ oMns our oaaaaaarcOy oar libeftv,
V oar rdigion, earn be aecttredi or the
Hott« of £>nrbon restrained firooi over-
*Uaito^ the universe. It is allowed diat
ik<piaea of Hungary baa a efadaa to our
•MMBS by odw tiaa dum tboae of i»-
teat; due itwaa promiaedupan the fekb
j[baatMa, and k is deaaaaded by tlie
Mat calla of boaoor, jastice, end ceair
PMioa. And did it not appeer too ii»-
|«ii aad lemaritie, I aoight add, that
ke pawmal espedkaciea are aueh aa
^ caH aanaa to her aaiHanee from
«e remoteat ooman of tlM eavtb; that
^ eaaaaaw im th^ Mi««iaa of bar fighu
oiplatfinieMea; aad her iotrepid^y in tbe
oiidBt of danger end diotraaag when every
day btinga aceeuRla of new eacfeaMChment^^
and every new epcroaohn«nt diacouaegea
those firaaa wheat aho nev oUm aaaialance
from declaring in her iaraw» aai^ht in-
aaire with ar&itr for her pteaerraJJon att
thoae ia whom irirtoe can excite reverence^
Of wham csdaenties unjufltly indicted oam
touch with indignatioo.
Nor am I airaid to affirm, my lords, that
the oeadition of this iUustrioaa princcaa
raised all Ibeae eaaotieaa in Ae court of
Britain, and tk^t the vigour of our pro*
eeedinga will appear propertioaed to our
ardour for her auccoaa. Nosooner was the
true state of ai&irs incontestably known^
thiie 1S,QOO auxiliary troops were hired,
and eevmanded to march to her assiat^
ance; but her aftkaiaahing it more eli|^**
Ue for her to employ her own aut^jeota in
her defence, and the want of money being
the only obataclo that hindered h^r fraaa
raiain^ armiea proportioned lo duwe of her
eneoaies, Ae required, thet instead of
treopa a •upphr of money miaht be acal
her, With whica hiamajealy wtUin^y com^
plied*
The Britiah ariaiatera in tfie mean time
endeavoured, by the atvoo^M arguments
and moat importunate adicitattoBa. to ani-
mate her alliea to equal vigour, or to pro^
cure her aaaiatance from other poupeis
wfaoae iatereat was more remotely aJTedad
by her distress ; if the effects of their en»
deavours are not y^ manifest, it cannot
be imputed to the want either of sincerity
or diligeooe; and if any ether powera
ahould be perauaded to arm ia the eom^
moa cauae, it ousht to be aaoribed tq the
influence of the Britiah eounacls.
In the prosecutioo of the war with
Spain, h doea not i4ipear, my lorda, that
any meaaurea have been aegkMfed, which
grudeaee, or brarery, or exnerteace aoaU
e expected to dicUte. Ir we heee auf-
fored greater lesaea thad we expected, if
eur enemies have been sometimes favoerad
by the winds, or sometimes have been so
hapw as to ceneeal tiieir designs, aad
elude the diligence of our eommaadara,
who k to he oeaaured ? or what is to be
eeaduded, but that wlddk never was de-
nied, that the chence of mar is aeeertaia»
dbaft men are iaeliaed to mafce foUeeHwa
oakalations of ^ probabiUlies of fteace
events, and that our eaemies soi^ seme-
times be as artfol, as diligeal^aBd as a^pr
aa% as oias^ea?
It vas tbe geaeari epbioa ef Ibe Bcili*
8*7]
15GFE0R6E U.
Debaie in tie Lbrds
[2«i
people, my lords, if the general opinion
iQay be collected from the clamours and
expectationa which every man has had op-
portunities of observing, that in declaring
war upon Spain, we only engaged to chas-
tise the insolence of a nation of helpless
aavaffes, who might indeed rob and murder
a defenceless tr^er, but who could cmly
hold up their hands and cry out for mercy,
or skulk in secret creeks and unfrequented
coasts, when ships d war should be fitted
out against them. They imagined that
the fortifications of the Spani& citadels
would be abandoned at the first sound of
cannon, and that their armies would tui^
their backs at the sight of the standard of
Britain.
It was not remembered, my lords, that
tile greatest part of our trade was carried
on in sight of the Spanish coasts, and that
our merchants must be consequently ex-
posed to incessant molestation firom light
vessels, which our ships of war could not
pursue over rocks and shallows. It was
not sufficiently considered, that a trading
nation must always make war with a na-
tion that has fewer merchants, under the
disadvantage of being more exposed to the
rapacity of private adventurers. How
much we had to fear on this account was
' shown us by the late war with France, in
which the privateers of a few petty ports
injured the commerce of this nation more
tfwn their mighty navies and celebrated
admirals.
• My lords, it would very Kttle become
this august assembly, this assembly so re-
nowned for wisdom and for justice, to con<^
"Ibund want of prudence with want (^ suc-
cess, since on many occasions the 'wisest
measures may be defeated by accidents
which ooidd not be foreseen ; since they
may sometimes be discovered by deserters,
or spies, and sometimes eluded by an
enemy equally skilful with ourselves in the
science of war.
That any of these a[X>logies are neces-
sary to the administration, I am ftr from
Intending to insinuate, for I know not that
we have failed of success in any of our
designs, except the attack of Carthagena,
of which the tm'scarriage cannot at least
-be imputed to the ministry; nor is it evi-
.dent that any other causes of it are to be
assigned than the difficulty of the enter-
pri£ : and when, ray lords, did any nation
ilknake war, without experiencing some dis-
appointments ?
These considerations, my lords, I have
^thought myself obliged, by my tegBixd to
truth and justice, to lay before you, to dis-
sipate those suspicions and that anxiety
which might have arisen firom a different
representation of our late measures ; for I
cannot but once more observe, that a vin-
dication of the conduct of the ministry is
by no means a necessary preparative to
the address proposed.
Tlie addms which was so modestly
offered to your lordships, cannot be said
to contain any more than a general answer
to his majesty's speech, and such dedan*
tions of our duty and affiscdon, as are al-
ways due to our sovereign, and alwaji
expected by him on such occasfons.
if our allies have been neelected or b^'
trayed, my lords, we riiall be still at li-
berty to discover and to punish negligencel
so detrimental, and treachery soreproach-
fiil, to the British nation. If in the var
against Spain we have fiuled of success,
we shall still reserve in our own hands the
right of enquiring whether we were un-
successfiil by the superiority of our ene*
mies, or by our own fault ; vriiether oar
commanders wanted orders, or neglected
to obey them ; for what clause can be pn>>
duced in the tuidress by which any of
these enquiries can be supposed to be pre-
determined ?
Let us therefore remember, my lordsj
the danger of our present state, and tb«
necessity of steadiness, vigour, and wis^
dom, for our own preservation and that ol
Europe ; let us consider that public wl«^
dom IS the result of united couasels, and
steadiness and vigour, of united influence
let us remember that our example may b<
or equal use with our assistance, and thai
both the allies and the subjects of Greai
Britain will be conjoinecl by our union, anc
distracted by our divisions ; and let u
therefore endeavour to promote the gene
ral interest of the world, by an unanimou
address to his majesty in the terms pro
posed by the noble lord. .
Lord Talbot :
My lords ; aflier the display of the pre
sent state of Europe, and the account o
the measures of the British mioisten
which the noble lord who spoke agaio!
the motion has laid before you, there i
Httle necessity for another attempt to coo
vince you that our liberty and tne libert
of Europe are in danger, or of disturbs
your reflections by another aiumeration c
follies and misfoirtunes. .
To mention the folly <^onr measures i
superfluous likewise .for. another reasoi
MB]
on the Aidreu of Thanks.
A. D. 1741.
[250
Ibey who do not alieady ackcofwledge it
nay be justly suspected of suppressing
tkeir coDTiction ; for how can it be |K)sai-
bk, that they who cannot produce a single
instance of wisdom or. fortitude, who can-
not point out one enterprise wisely con-
certed and successfully executed, can yet
lincerely declare, that nothing has been
nniued which our interest required ?
The measures, my lords, which are now
punued, are the same which for twenty
Teurs bare kept the whole nation in con-
tinual diBtorbaDce, and have raised the
indignation of every man, whose private
interestwas not promoted by them. These
measttrn cannot be said to be rashly cen-
sored, or condemned before they are seen
ID their full extent, or expanded into all
tbeir consequences ; fbr tney have been
prosecuted, my lords, with all the confi-
dence of auUiority, and all the perseve-
rance of obstinacy, without any other op-
[Nution than fruitless clamours, or peti-
doDi iinr^arded. And what copsequences
kve they produced ? What but poverty
ttd distractiODs at home, and the contempt
and insults of foreign powers ? What but
the neceastty of retrieving by war the
Inies sustamed by timorous and dilatory
negociatioDs; and the miscarriages of a
nr, in which only foUy and cowardice
have invdved us ?
NoChii^, my lords, is more astonishing,
than that it snould be asserted in this
H»Bse that we have no ill success to com-
fit of. Might vre not hope for success,
tf ve hare calculated the events of war,
s&d made a suitable preparation? And
hov is this to be done, but by comparing
oar forces with that of our enemy, who
UBRt ondoubtedly be more or less formi-
^le according to the proportion which
ha tiessures uid his. troops bear to our
wn?
Upon the assurance of the certainty of
^ practioe^ u^n the evidence, my
vrds, of arithmetical demonstration, we
were indined to believe, that the power
of Great Britain was not to be resisted by
^P*in, id4 therefore demanded that our
^MrriuBts should be no longer plundered,
^^»i^ ioqirisoned, and tortured, by so
^t^CBbk an enemy.
That we did not foresee all the conse-
?>QUMof this demand, we are now ready
to fxa&m ; we did not conjecture that
^ troops would be raised for the inva-
^ of the Spai|ish dominions, only that
*^ night be reduced, to the level with
ffaeoemies. We did not imagine that
the superiority of our naval force would
produce no other consequence than an
me^ualitjr of expence, and that the royal
navies ot Britain woidd be equipped only
for show, only to harass the sailors with
the hateful molestation of an ibipress, and
to weaken the crews of our mercantile
vessels, that they might be more easily
taken by the privateers of Spam.
We did not expect, mv lords, that our
navies would sail out under the command
of admirals renowned for bravery, know^
ledge, and vigilance, and float upon the
ocean without design, or enter ports and
leave them, equally inoffensive as a packet-
boat, or petty trader.
But not to speak any longer, my lords,
in terms so little suited to the importance
of the question which I am endeavouring
to clear, or to the enormity of the con-
duct which I attempt to expose ; the suc-
cess of war is only to be estimated by the
advantages which are gained, in propor-
tion to the loss which is suffered ; of which
loss the expences occasioned by the war
are always the chief part, and of which it
is therefore usual, at the conclusion of a
peace, for the conquered power to pro-
mise Uie payment.
Let us examine, ray lords, in conse*
quence of this position, the success of
our present war against Spain; let us
consider what each nation has suffered,
and it will easily appear how justly we
boast of our wisdom and vigour.
It is not on this occasion necessary to
form minute calculations, or to compute
the expence of every company of soldiers
and squadron of ships; it ia only neces-
sary to assert, what will I hope not be
verv readily denied, even by those whom
.daily practice of absurd apolojries has
rendered impregnable by tne force of
truth, that such expences as have neither
contributed to our own defence, nor to
the disadvantage of the Spaniards, have
been thrown away.
If this be granted, my lords, it will ap-
pear, that no nation ever beheld its trea-
sures so profusely squandered, overpaid
taxes so willingly, and so patiently saw
them perverted ; for it cannot, my lords,
be proved, that any part of our prepata-
tions has produced a proportionate effect ;
but it may be readily shown how many
fleets -have been equipped only that the
merchants might want sailors, and that
the public stores might be consumed.
As to our ill success in America, which
hasb^h impixted only to the chance. of
150B0IGBU.
iw^ nmeh of it
ib«» it viB Im
Mciteto otiMr
wgkt hove bees ptevented bf
^aedy ranfaretQMBt ef Yctbod^ or maj
k« lupptHed te have arisen from tlw inex-
yMfienee of oar trocfM, and tke eicape of
Iba Spaniards from FanoL
If our fleets had been sent moraearhr
into that part of the worlds the Spaaiardb
vould have had no time to strengthen
' Iheir garrisoaa; had ear trm^s been ae^
4|iiaintQd with discipKney the attack ireukL
have been made wi(h greater jodgaiCBt ;
and had not the Spaniards escaped from
f errol, we should have had no enemy ia
America to encounter. Had ali our mi-
nisters and att our admirak done their
duty, it is evident that net only Cartha-
gena had been taken, but that half the
dominiona of , Spam miriit now have
<Mraed the sovereignty of the cvewn of
Great Britain.
Tlu% my lonb, may be observed ef the
mdy enterprise^ which it is reasonable to
believe was ia reality intended agmnst the
Speaiards, if even of this our miaisters
had ael belbre' contrived the defeat. Bnt
af all Ahe rest of our armaments it does not
appear that any e£Pect has been felt bat by
imrselvesy it eanaot be diBcevered that
th^ even raised any idarms er anxiety
aither in our eftiemias or their allitSy by
tvkom perhaps it was known that they
vperettOy (ies%aed ae pwMshments Ibr thie
merchanta ef Britain.
That ear nepdumils have already been
saveraiy chastised fee their iasoleaea in
eeaspkiimig of their lossesy and their
teaarity in raising in Ae nation a regard
Ibr its eammereoi its honooTy and its
rights, is evident ftom a dreadful list of
tlMa biuidved shi^M taken by the Spa-
BiHrds, some of wbieh were abandoned by
their cenve;3«, and eAera seised within
s%bt af the eaasU of Britain.
it may be orged, my loidb, Aat the
Spaniards have Hkewise hist a great nii»-
har of vessels; bat what else caiild they
aspeet when tibey eaaaged in a war
diey eagaged
the greetatt ntw power of the
a f ,And it is to be reraembeiad,
that tlie Spaniards have this eonsoJIation ui
tfa^ isjsfavtUBes, thttt ef tiieir shipaaone
hapea been desetted by thab eenvoya, or
wiUallv exposed to capture by being
fobbed of Uieir crawa, to lappiy ships of
war with idle hands.
The SMBierdi wiS hkewise eeiiiider,
€tM thty We not harasead their aubjects
fer tha prateolioo of dm tradej '
Aegr hava aot filalad oat fleets m^
amuse tbepopuboes. Thi^ eonslbittiii
sahrca with the hep^, that the Brilmsi
soon be redooed to a stale ef weska
bdaw themarives^ and wait psftiQndjri
tha time in whidi the nsanters of ^ y
shall receive ftam them die regahtiQB
dieir oommeroe^ and the limits of d(
navigation.
Nor eanit be doubted^ mykrdi^l
that by adheriiig to these measmsi^ i
mittistera will in a short tisBe gfitify ||
hopes; for whatsoever be the Mmk
between die power of two contsndiagi
tiona, if the rieber spends its traasi
without effect, and exposes its troops
unhealthy ehtaates and impracdesUei
peditions, whib the weaker is psidii
nious and prudent, they must sooaH
brought to an aquali^ ; and by eti
nuittg the same conouoty the «ei|
power must at length pravaiL
That diis has bean hitherto the ststa
tha war ^tween Britain and Spsaif iri
not necessanp to provw to yoqr kaddiif
it is appaf«nt» that the exoenoss sf i
Spaniards have been far lem tfasa ttal
or Britain ; and therelbre if ws disuld a^
pase the actual hissee of war eqosi, t
are only wearing ant our foree m ladt
efforts, and our enemiee growevwyif
comparatively stronger. i
But, my kMds, let ua net flsttsral
sckres that our aetual Iooks hsvt W
equal ; let us, before we datanmM di
^pestitm, accurately oaoipare the maM^
and the vahie of aor ships aad cai|p|
with thoee ef the Spaniards, aad see i
which side the loss will ML
And let ua not forget, what in til th
caleulatiens which I have yst sses il
either part ha< been totally oveiiosbj
the number of aran killed, orcsptifni
the British and Spanish dominiozu. MM
my lords, are at onee strangdi ead ridM
and therafore it ia to be coasidarsd, dM
the most irreaarsfcla kisa whkhsDfsi
tien can suitam is tha dummilioa sf I
people. Money aaay be repaid, SD^eoa
asaroe may be reeovetcd, evca liiiH
maybe regaiaad, but the loss of petfi
can never be retrieved. Evwi detme
tieth generation may hire reasMi Is ttf
ehuas, How mueh mum numsrsm ia^
meee pewaiM wonkl diis natisa Imm
been, had aasr aneeetors not be^a bitnTt'
in the expedition te Carthagenaf
What loss, my lords, hive As 8fi^
niards austained adiieh can ks pt ii
bahuK^ with dnt ef #ur«xnyiftiMMit
onUe AUrm ^Tif»h.
m
^mmf jprm w^ ^ ilm vukiiBtft ^ an
vkeahliy climate, «mI1 of wimk thorn
ibpcriiMhr ^ BiNir4» wtre iBraoUty
BBctitd fnm a*pe lingering lonMBtB ?
Whii«fttMaBt am lie nebtieiMd fo
kHbeityefBiiltitsdM «f Britotti^ bow
bguisUng ill ike yriswu of Spuin^ or
iU^bjbanUUp* and doaperatkxi io
insttbteoeaiietof AeirceuiitTyf Whul
be tlie Sptoiarda lufi^Ml thai can be
ifpasedtotte^txiMH^ whk^^e oeea-
iKctoftUiaatieo fi»>lg frcm tha dataa*
moiffuwion^
Thw^nj brda» Hre latiei not to be
MtfieU Igr liie de8trui.tieo of Porto
Mk^emtiiouobtibOl espedttioD ahonkl
be ascribed to the minisUj* Thoae are
loM vliidi oMf' extODd thek cobse-
poicei to ttaay ages, which may hmg
iape^Mireiaimeroe» end dimieinh our
tiatttobeini^gMied,Myiowb» that
ii tUg tima of pec^iar dai^;er, paretna
ril dttdae their tahildroB to BMritime em-*
ihjweiite, or thKoByaoae wiB engage
a naval buainett who oao oaoeiviaa abir
>iffI»«finidQ( Midlliora£bro tfaedaath
ecapiivityefa eailor iaatea a Taouity la
te ommuo^ mnet oo other will be
itidj to oi|ip)y his place. Thui by de-
P«a tb coatmoaaoe of the war wjU
Mtnctwrlraili, ODdtheea porta of It
^idtncanot oocupv^ wtH be aaotched
^^ FfOKsh or I>«tc^ from whom it «
MpnMk lint tber will ever beieoo*
Ti>iT»ylordb| ii aoothflrcirettnMtaiioe
•fMhntogt to whaoh the Sponhirdt
«« mt expand; lor Ihair tnifio beng
^ from one part of their deosieiona to
Mkr, cMnet be destroyed, birt will,
^ifatiboit intcrruptiao of a war, be
5^ tqo% Gortaifi and oqoally pro-
awe.
it^peaa^ HiereftMre, my loida, that we
veiudrnteiiifisfed aoore than the Spa-
2^ laoia than the eatien which we
■**«» naeh leonm to despite; it ap-
^^ that cor tetts hspre been eieioas,
*^tbt oar troa|M have been only aent
«t«bedettiQyod; ood it wiU theeefora
^^ attoved me to oasert, that the
*«|^BotbaaihithcBto sucoesifiiL
' «i tkefefeio of opinioiH my lofda,
[J^^tbe Addiemaewprepoaed oaaaot
^ ^ MdsiiaoaA both by his laaJMty
^ the natioD, to imply in some degree a
^**^Msa ef that coodoot which
I °|^ Ik caBaModsdy whidi oiM|fat neser
"*"^oiBsa Mt evn sMsaMtion awl
A* a vm.
fm
om/temf^ ii irfU b6 wwaiAf ef tiia
Hottse^ offMsiira to the whole oilionb Md
«B|ust«o his mnj^jr*
bis m^iestv, mjr lords, has
us 4o advise him m this ia^pettwl j
toiOi and the aAtioo oi4>eoia Iran .^
determinations its toKof or ftiB doilrwctkma
Aor will either have nraeh to hope fiwaa
eiir irowmeW if ia oor ftnst pobKo aol wia
endeavour to deceive them*
It seoma theNfom preper to ehmme
theOeaMnoofohnofourodire8sas«4 Jho
thaaoe, to do onoe at kast whnt his mt^
jeily dmnands and the Mopk eapooty mk
to lomamber that no cberaotera ereinaso
iboonsirteBt, than these of o ceotweWof
af the king and aflatteaar of Uie nvmistiyw
tlie Earl titAta^dpn :
My Idrds^ I have aiw|(yi oUseread that
dsbatea ore prolooged, and oo^'riea peiw
ploBed, by the n^^kot df asetbed; imd
therefore thiok it neoesBoryto aseee. That
theqoostiOB mairbemad; that the aoUo
hMds who shall be itteUned to oxdaia *de
sentiments upon it, may have ai ways the
ehief poiat in view, a«d mat deviate Into
ftosippi coMultratsBOo. {It woaaaadec*
Gordii^y«]
Lord Cartera :
My lords; Ion
piiety of the hat
tiige which it has
oettviaeed efthe
motion hj the
offMdedme ofviowmc
mere deliberately and ditliQedy the Oiioo*
tion beibre os ; the oonsideiotioa of whkh
has oonfimsed me hi asy opWon, that the
Addvem Dowpropeaed k only a flalteriaif
rapetition of the Speeeh, oad that that
Speooh was drawn up only to betray «a
into an encomium on the ministrj; wha^
as they oertainly have not deserved «qr
GommendatieBs, will, I hope, not raeehro
them ftom your lordshiiis* For what boa
been the remit ef all their measursa, buto
geaeral confusioB, the deproBsieo of our
own nation and our alliea, nnd the esalta-
taon of the Hoaae of BooboB ?
It is BBivenatty allowed^ my lends, and.
thereiere it woidd be supedhmus toproee^
that the liberties of Barope or^ now i«
the BtaMst danger; that the House of
Bourbon has arrived .ahnost el that ex-»
aked {rinBade ef authority, frem whonoo
it will look down with contetnpt upon oil
powen, to whhsh it wiU faenetibr
praacribe law^ et pleasuie, whoso
doBiiBmBs will be ttmitadby ita disectioBr
ami wfaoae anawwiHomrdiatitS'
d.
tSS] 15 tJEORGB n.
That Greal Britain will be long ex-
empted from the general Bervitude^ that
we shall be able to stand alone against the
whole power of Europe, which the French
may then bring down upon us, and pre-
senre ourselves independent, while every
other nation acknowledges the authority
of an arbitrary conqueror, is by no means
likely, and mi^ht be perhaps dmnonstrated
to be not possible.
How long we might be able to retain
our liberty, it is beyond the reach of
policy to determine ; but as it is evident,
Uiat when the empire is subdued, the
Dutch will quickly M under the same
dominion, and that all their ports and
all their commerce will then be in the
hands of the French, it cannot be denied
that our cominerce will quickly be at an
end. We shall then lose the dominion of
the sea^ and all our distant colonies and
settlements, and be shut up in our own
island, where the contmuance of our li-
berties can^ be determined only by the
resolution with which we shall defend
them* '
That this, my lords, must probably in
a few years be our state, if the schemes
of the House of Bourbon should suc-
ceed, is certain beyond, all controversy ;
and therefore it is evident that no man to
whom such a condition does not appear
eligible, can look unconcerned at the
confusion of the continent, or consider
the destruction of the House of Austria,
without endeavouring to prevent it.
But, my lords, thouffh such endeavours
are the duty of all wtio are engased in
the transaction of public affairs, though
the importance of tne cause of the queen
of Hungary be acknowledged in the
Speech to which we are to return an
Address, it does not appear that the mi-
nisters of Britain have once attempted to
assist her, or have even forborne any
thing which mieht aggravate her distress.
The only OTOCtuiu methods by which
any efficacious relief could have been pro-
cured, were that of reconciling her with
the king of Prussia, or that of prevailing
upon the Russians to succour her.
A reconciliation with the king of Prus-
sia would have been my first care, if the
honour of advising on this occasion had
fallen to my lot. To have mediated suc-
cessfully between them could surely have
been no difficult task, because each party
could not but know how much it was their
common interest to exclude the French
from the empire, and how certainly this
Debate in the Lards - [2j
untimely discord most expose them M
to tbeir ancient enemy.
As in private life, my lords, when it\
friends carry any dilute between themt
improper degrees of anger or regeDtmenl
it 18 the 'province of a third to moderaf
the passion of each, and to restore tbatb<
nevolence which a difference of interei
or opinion had impaired ; so in alliance
or tne friendships of nations, whenever |
unhappily falls out that two of themforg^
the general good, and lay themselves op«
to l^ose evUs from which a strict unia
only can preserve them, it is necessai
that some other power should interpoS
and prevent the dangers of a perpeti^
discord.
Whether this was attempted, my lor^
I know not ; but if any sucn design was I
appearance prosecuted, it may be reasoj
aoly imagined from the event, that the d|
ffociaton were defective either in ikill or i
diligence ; for how can it be conceive
that any man should act contrary to 1^
own interest, to whom the state of his ij
fiiirs is truly represented i
But not to suppress what I cannot doab
I am convinced, my lords, that there is |
reality no design of aansting the queen \
Hungary ; either our ministers have o|
yet recovered from their apprehensions I
the exorbitant power of the House:of Au
tria, by which they were frighted sort
years ago into the bosom of France f|
shelter, and which left them no expediel
but the treaty of Hanover; or they aj
now equally afraid of France, and expei
the Pretender tcf be forced upon them t
the power whom they so lately solicited I
secure them from him.
Whatever is the motive of their condu^
jt is evident, my lords, that they ^^ I
present to the unfortunate queen of Hi^
gary, either professed enemies or tr^
cherous allies; for they have pertnittj
the invasion of her Italian dominions, whj
they miff ht have prevented it without
blow, omy by commanding the Spaniari
not to transport their troops.
To argue that our fleet in the Medit^
ranean was not of strength sufficient to a
pose their passage, is a subterfuge to wbij
they can only be driven by the necesj
of making some apology, and an ahsolu
inability to produce any which will n
immediately be discovered to b« grouo
less.
It is known, my lords, to all Eurof
that Haddock had then under his col
mand 13 ships of the line, and nine fiig^^^
iS7]
•» ike Addrttt tf Thanks^
A. D. mi.
[CSS
lod that the ^Muoish cqqyoj consisted
volj of three ships ; and yet they sailed
before hk eyes with a degree of security
which nothing could have produced but a
passport from the court of Britain, and an
assured exemption from the danger of an.
attidc
It may be urged, that they were pro-
tected bv die Frendi squadron, and that
Haddock durst not attack them, because
he was unable to contend with the united
fleets : but, my lords, even this is known
to be fake ; it is known that they bore no
proportion to the strength of the British
aquadroi^, that they coiud not have made
even the appearance of a battle, and that
oar commanders could have been only
employed in pursuit and captures.
ThiSy my lords, was well known to our
ministers, who were afraid only of destroy-
ing the French squadron, and were very
&r from apprehending any danger from it ;
bat being determined to nurchase, on any
terms, the continuance or the friendship of
their old protectors, consented to the In-
Tvion of Italy, and procured a squadron
to sail out, under pretence of defending
the Spanish transports, that then: comph-
aace m^t not be discovered.
All this, my lords, may reasonably be
suspected at the first view of their pro-
ceedings : for how could an inferior force
Tenture into the way of an enemy, unless
upon security that they should not be at-
tacked ? But the late treaty of neutra-
Etj has changed suspicion into certainty,
his discovered the source of all their mea-
ttires, and shewn that the invasion of Italy
k permitted to preserve Hanover from the
like calamity.
There b great danger, my lords, lest this
hat treaty m Hanover should give the de-
cisive blow to the liberties of Europe.
How much it embarrasses the queen of
Hungary, by making it necessary for her
to divide her forces, is obvious at the first
▼iew; but this is not, m my opinion, its
raoA fate! consequence. The other powers
▼31 be incited, by the example of our mi-
nistry, to conduae treaties of neutrality in
die same manner. They will distrust
ereiT appearance of our zeal for the House
of Austria, and imagine that we intend
ooly an hypocritical assbtance, and that
^fa generau, our ambassadors, and our
admirals, have, in reality, the same orders.
Nothing, my lords, is more daneerous
than to weaken the public fiiith. Wnen a
ution can be no longer trusted, it loses all
in inflttence, because none can fear its
[TOL.Xlf.1
menaqet, or depend on its alliance. . A
nation no longer trusted, must stand alono
and unsupported ; and it is , certain that
the nation which Is justly suspected of
hplding with its open enemies a secret in*
tercourse to the preiudice of its allies, can
be .no longer trusted.
This suspicion, my lords, this hateful,
this reproachful character, is now fixed
upon tne court of Britain ; nor does it take
its rise only from the forl}earance of our
admiral, but has received new confirma-
tion from the behaviour of our ambassador,
(Mr. Trevor) who denied the treaty of
neutrality, when the French minister de«
clared it to the Dutch. Such now, my
lords, is the reputation of the British court,
a reputation produced by the most fla«.
grant and notorious instances of cowardice
and falshood, which cannot but make all
our eo<leavour8 ineffectual, and discourage
all those powers whose conjunction wa
might have promoted, from entering into
any other engagements than such as we
may purchase for stated subsidies. For
who, upon any other motive than immedi-
ate interest, would form an alliance with
a power, which, upon the first appearance
of danger, gives up a confederate, to pur-
chase, not a large extent of territory, not
a new field of commerce, not a port or ci-^
tadel, but an abject neutrality 1
But however mean may be a supplica-
tion for peace, or however infamous tho
desertion of an ally, I wish, my lords, that
the liberty of invading the queen of Hun-
gary's dominions without opposition, had
been the most culpable concession of our
illustrious ministers, of whom it is reasona-
ble to believe, that they have stipulated
with the Spaniards, that they shall be re-
Said the expence of the war by the plun-
er of our merchants.
That our commerce has been unneces-
sarily exposed to the ravages of privateers,
from which a very small degree of caution
might have preserved it ; tnat three hun-
drea trading ships have been taken, and
that 3,000. british sailors are now in cap-
tivity, is a consideration too melancholy
to be lone dwelt upon, and a truth too
certain to be suppressed or denied.
How such havock could have been made,
had not our ships of war concluded a treaty
of neutrality with the Spaniards, and left
the war to be carried on only by the mer-
chants, it is not easy to conceive ; for
surely it will not be pretended, that all
these losses were the necessary conse-
quence of our situation with regard to
[8]
isd}
15 GfiOftGi U.
ihitteh^lMdi
t«9
^abi^irlifeli, If itetpoted tlit Flortagtf
ttftdert to hazard, did not bidder uafrom
Hvarding ouf own coatts*
And yet on our own eoasts^ mjr lordi»
hare multitudes of our ships beai taken Iqr
the Spaniards ; they hava been seized by
petty Tessels as tliey wttre entering our
ports, and congratulating tfaemselTes upon
their escape from danger*
In the late war with IVanoe^ an enemy
much more formidable both for power and
situation, methods were disccwered by
which our trade was more efBoaciously
protected : by>tationing a squadron at the
mouth of the channel, of which two or
Area sfa^ at a time cruised at a poper
distance m die nei^ibouriog seas, the pri-
titeen were kept m awe, and confined to
llieu' own harbours, or seiaed if they Ten-
tnred to leave them*
But of such usefol rmlatlons in the
|iresont war there is little hope ; for if the
public papers are of any credit, the king
of Spam considers the captures of our
mfercnants as a standing revenue, and has
hid an indulto upon them, as upoa other
parts of the Spanish trade.
It is thervdbre to little punase that
Measures are pr<^osed in dus House, or
adiemes preKuted by the mer^iants, for
Ihe preservation of our commerce; for the
merchants are considered as the deter-
aoined enemies of our minister, who there-
Ibre resolved that they should repent of
Ae war into ^hidi he was forc^ by them,
contrary to those ,&vourite schemes and
estaWshed maxims, which he has pursued
till the liberties of mankind are almost
tttingttished.
There are indeed some hopes, my lords,
that new measures resolutely pursued
might yet repair the mischiefs of this ab-
aura and cowardly conduct, and that by
resolution and dexterity the ambition of
Fhmce might once more be dttiqppointed.
The kins dT Prussia q>pears at length con-
vinced that he has not altogether pursued
his real interest, and that nis own &mi]y
must M b theruin of theHouse of Austria,
The king of Sardinia appears firm in his
determination to adhere to the oueen of
Hungary, and has therefore roiised a
ABssage through his dominions to the
Spanish troops. The states 6f Holland
aeem to have taken the alarm, and nothing
but their distrust of our sbcerity can hin-
der them from unitiiig against the House of
Bourbon.
This distrust, my lords, we may prdba-
My i^moft^ bj ravlvisig on this owttiott
our andantftrms of addMSiinddeckufn^
at once to his majesty, and to all tlia
powers of Europe, that we ace fiur from
mmving the late measures.
There is another reason why the ahort
addresses of our ancestors may be pre- |
ferred to the modem forms, in which a
great number of particular fiicts are often
comprdiended. It is evident, that the i
addresses are presented before there can I
be time to examine whether the (acts con* j
tained in them are jusU^ stated; and they
must therefore lose their efficacy with the
peoplOtWho are sufllcientiy sagacious to
distmguish servile compliance firocn real
apprcSation, and who wiU not easily mia-
take the incense of flattery for the tributa
ofjnratitade.
With regard tO the proprie^ of the ad- j
dress propo^d to your lordshijps, which is, |
like others, only a repetition of the ^>eech, j
thcnre ii at least one objection to it» too |
important to be suppreased.
Itbaffirmedin tLe speech, in what par- |
ticidarwordsl cannot exactiv lememDerp \
that since the death of the late Gemum j
emperor, the interest ofthe queen of Hun- j
gaiy has been diligendy and mvariablj i
promoted ; an assertion which hb majesty j
IS too wise, too equitable, and too gene- |
rous, to have uttered, but at the persuaaion |
of hu ministers.
Hif majesty well knows, that no im- I
portant assistance has been hitherto given i
to that unhappy princess; he knows that i
the 12,000 men, who are said to have be&k \
raised for the defence of the empire, those i
mighty troops bjr whose assistance the |
enemies of Austria were to be scattered,
never marched bevond the territory of
Hanover, nor left that blissful country for ;
a single day. And is it probable that Uie
queen would have pre&rred money for
troops, had she not been informed that it
would be more easily obtamed ?
Nor was even this pecuniary as«gtance»
though compatible with the security of
Hanover, aranted her without reluctanoe
and difficulty, of which no other proof la
necesjMffy than the distance between the
promise and the performance of it. •
The mon^, my lords, is not yet all
paid, thoiwh the last payment was verr
lately fixedl Sudi is the assistance which
the united influence of justice and com*
pession has yet procured from the court of
Britain.
Our oiinisters. have been therefore hi*
therto, my lords, so fiur from acting with
vigour in &vour of the Houso of AustdSy
«• lie jM^^VM ^HomIiu
noUciledllieeoafl^
^ iIm QBly court aow indfr-
MadffitM FiWMMk toeagige iah^de-
ilwiiiifnithai her rau ioterQfl» and be«r ar-
^nti^ dhe pwiuef it» the whole world wm
cniiiiimimI w her elliiuioe with the lute em*
MTor; qpr it it naUMj, that 8he laigbt
bte hees eeeOy persufided to havepro-
teetedUidiuMteer with equal 9081^ But
aakeS her alUaoee leir we ahould
\ it» and yet we boett of our good
Our gofemen thought it more nf^uly
eneewrd Aem to huipble our merchaols
thaale meeoorour elliesy aod thorefiNre
eduHtted the Spaaiardf into Italy; by
which prodeut oaaduct they dexteroualy
^enoe gratified the Houieof Bourbon,
i the queeo of Hompuy, and
i die elects of the Bntish mer-
'lyiag at Leghom; effects which
were lately valued at eOO,000^ but which,
by the OBOBOoaUe arrival of the Spaoiaida,
ate happilf redueed to half their pricew
I hope therefim Z »e»d not urge to
* ~ iqia the neoesaily of conSniDg
I to Aaaks and coogratttlatioDi,
^ it ia not neoenary to say how in-
k wist be thought with the
of dui Hquae to echo fiOahood,
I lo crwitffUQnee perfidy.
The Duke vSNewcasik:
leidas the vaauer in which the
lard wio Ipoke last expresses his
sorter ftils to give j^easure,
his vgunenls produce no
; aad his ele^uenee always re-
— -— thavfih It may somedmes
of Its more important
JJr
In the preaent debate, «▼ lords, I have
' no aiguaseht, by wbich I am in^
to change the usual forms of ad*
to select the motion whidh has
(tons.
The ilddaem irtiicfa has been proposed,
■ not, in mt opinion, jusUy <»aigeable
ddier with fiattery to the ministers, or
mh disiagenoi^ with respect to the peo-
fie; nor can I diacorer in it any of those
wlDQh have been represented so
dnncerotts. It contains
dedaration of our grati-
ittion of our aeal ; a de-
rtion to which I hope no
hid hi tfak nssonbly wiUbeunwillmgto
A. ©. mi- fm
miy or not, many observations on the pr^
sent state of Europe^ and many anijifmj^
versions upon the fate conduct, it cannat
be improper for me to ofiur to your lord-
ships my opmioo of the measures which
have been pursued by us, as well io the
with Sbain, as with regard to
into dm pcopdety of this I
war witb Snain, as with regard to the
queen of Hun^^, and to propose my
conjectures concerning die events which
may probably bejproducedby the distinc-
tions on the i^mtment.
This devution from the qu^on before
us, will at least be as easifv pardoned in
me as in the noble lords, who hanre eship
bited so gloomy a lepvesentatipn of our ap-
proaching condition, -who have lamented
the slavery with which tbev imagine all the
stptes of Europe about to be harassed, aad
described the insolence and ravages of
those oppressors to whom their nppr^ei^
aions have already given the enmire of the
world. For purely, mv lords, it jsan en-
deavour no less laudable to diipd temU^
than to excite it ; aad he who brii^ ui
such accennto as we desoe to reoeive, is
generally listened to with indulgence, how*
ever und^ant mav be bis espressioost m
however irregular his narration*
That the power of the House of BoodNm
is arrived at a very dangerous and forvd-
daUe extent; that it never waslntherte
employed bnt to disturb the hsppineas «C
the unmrse; that the same scheiMS
which our ancestors hriboured so ardendy
and so successfolly to destroy, are ne#
fiurmed afresh^ and intended to be put m
immediate execution; that the empire ia
designed to be held henceforward m do^
pendence on France, and tluit the House
of Austria, by whidi the common rights of
mankind have been so lo^g supported, ia
now mariced out for destruction, M too e«i»
dent to be contested^
It is allowed, mylords, that the powar
of the House of Austria, which there waa
once reason to dread, leat it might have
been employed .iigainst us, is now afanoat
extinguished ; and that name which has
for so many ages filled the histories of En-
rope, is in danger of being forgotten, it
is allowed, that the House of Austria
cannot ftU without exposmg all those who
have hitherto been supported by its alli-
ance^ to the utmost danger; and I need
not add, that they ought thefufiMris to
essiat it with the utaiost ezpedidon^ and *
the moat vigorous measures.
It may be suggested, mv kndB,lhat diil
has boon alnnay C '
96S]
15 GEOROB IL
DdaieinihiLordi
[a64|
is become luelesB, that the utmost expe-
dition will be too slowy and the most Tigo-
rous measures too weak, to stoo the torrent
of the conquests of France ; tnat the fatal
blow will be struck, before we shall have
an opportunity to ward it off, and that our
regara for the House of Austria will be
omy compassion for the dead.
iBut these, my lords, I bdpe, are only
the apprehensions of a mind overborne
with sudden terrors, and perplexed by a
confused survey of complicated danger;
for if we consider mere distinctly the
]>ower8 which may be broueht in opposi-
tion to France, we shall find no reason for
despairing that we may once more stand
up with success in defence of our religion
and the liberty of mankind, and once
more reduce those troublers of the world
to the necessity of abandoning their de»
structive desiens.
The noble lord has already mentioned
the present disposition of three powerful
states, as a motive for vigorous resolutions,
and a consideration that may at least pre-
serve us from -despair ; and it is no small
aatisfaction to me to observe, that his pe-
netration and experience incline him to
hope upon the prospect of affiurs as they
now appear ; because I doubt not but that
hope wdl be improved into confidence, by
the account which I can now give your
lordships of the intention of another power,
yet more formidable, to engage witn us in
the great design of repressing the inso-
lence of France.
A treati^ of alliance, my lords, has been
lor some time concerted with the empress
of Russia, and has been negociated with
such diligence, that it is now completed,
and I doubt not but the last ratifications
will arrive at this court in a-few days ; by
which it will appear to your lordships, that
the interest of this nation has been viei-
lantly regarded, and to our allies, that the
laith of Britain has never yet been shaken.
It will appear to the French, that they
bave precipitated their triumphs, that they
have imagined themselves masters of na*
> tions bv whom they will be in a short time
driven back to their own confines, and that
perhaps they have parcelled out kingdoms
which they are never likely to possess.
It was affirmed, and with just disoem-
inent,' that applications ought to be made
to this powerful court, as the professed ad-
•'versary of France ; and if it was not hi-
therto known that their assistance had
been assiduously solicited, our endeavours
•arere Jnpt secret only that their succew
might be more certain, and tlmt they might
surprise more powerfully by thcSr effects.
Nor have tlie two other princes, which
were mentioned by the noble lord,- been
forgotten, whose ooncurrenoe is at diii
time so necessary to us : and I doubt d<A
but that the representations which hare
been made with all the force of truth, and
all the seal that is awakened by mterest
and by danger,' will in time produce the
effects for mich they were intended ; hj
convincing those princes that they ecdan*
ger themsielves by flattering the Frend
an^ition, Uiat they are divestins them-
selves of that defence of whidi may wiQ
quickly regret the loss, and that thejare
only not attacked at pretent, that they may
be destrojfred more easily hereafter.
But it IS always to be remembered, my
lords, that in public transactions, as in
private life, interest acts with less force as
It is at greater dirtanoe, and that the im-
mediate motive will senerally prevail.
Futurity impairs the innuenee of the most
important objects of consideration, even
when it does not lessen their certsmty;
and with regard to events only proUible;
events which a thousand accidents may ob-
viate, they are almost annihilated, with re*
gard to the human mind, by being fdaoed
at a distance from us. Wherever imagi-
nation can exert its power, we easily dwell
upon the most nleanng views, and flatter
ourselves with tnose consequences, which,
though perhaps least to be expected, are
most desired. Wherever diiferent events
may suise, which is the state of all btiman
transactions, we naturally promote oar
b<^es, and repress our fears ; and in time
so far deceive oursdves, as to quiet all our
suspicions, lay all our terrors asleep, and
believe what at first we only wished.
This, my lords, must be the ddiiaioD by
which some states are induced to fiivour,
and others to neglect, the encroadioaents
of France. Men are impolitic, as they
are wicked; because they prefer the grati-
fication of the present hour to tiie assur-
ance df solid and permanent, but distant
happiness. The French take advantage
of this general weakness of the human
mind, and by magnificent promiiBeB to one
prince, and petty grants to another, re-
concile them to their designs. Bach finds
that he ahaH* gain more by contracting an
alliance mth them, than with another
state which has no view, besides that ot
preserving to every -aovereign his lo**
righto, and which therefore, as it {doBden
none, w^ hfve nothing to bettor.
m . 9nfk$Addreuqf7%ttnh.
' JlM, my krist it the dissidvantage under
Heh our Degodatorslalxmr against ^oae
fitace; we bcw no kingdoms to parcel
H aaong those whose confederacy we
IbII; ve can promise them no siipe-
Sliiy sbore the neighbouring princes'
Kch tbey do not now possess :• we aa-
S» not the oroTOice of adjusting the
Isdnies of oominion, or of deciding
IStorted tidesr: we promise only the pre-
iPSAioD of quiet, «ad the establishment
ist tiK Frenoby my lords, oppose us
kh olfaer srgumeats, arguments which
tiei tecofe their force from lolly and
iWty; but what more poweriul assist-
iprcm be desired > They promise not
Iff negative advantagei, not an exerop-
^irooi remote oppression, or an escape
Iff difeiy, which, ag it was yet never felt,
iisqr little dreaded ; they mer an imme-
Ms aagmeotation of dominion, and an
Eion of power ; they propose new
of commerce, and opoi new sources
iltb ; they invite confederacies, not
lUtnotf hvk for conquests ; for con-
Eto be divided among the powers by
vaion they shall be nmde.
it not therefore be objected, tAf
ii^ to our ministers, or our ne^ocjators,
Btiie F^ch obtain more influence
pidiey; that they are more easily lis-
W U^ or more readily believed : for
|ls Aidk is the condition of mankind,
i^Mt is desired is eanly credited,
lb profit is more powerful than reason,
imsa eloquence will frequently prevail.
Vhedier, my lords, our seemmg want
'•ncesi in the war with Spain admits of
\mf a solution, my degree of knowledge
raiffitBry aQurs does not enable me to
IvmiDp. An account of this part of our
atei IS tobe expected from the Commis-
mn of the Admiralty, by whom, I doubt
k^bat sach reasons will be assigned for
Mbe onerations of our naval forces, and
JdiiviDdicattons offered of all those mea-
RSiwhichhave beenhitherto imputed too
ncimtfttely to negligence, cowardice, or
nmeij, as will satufy ihose who luive
m B06t vdiemeni in their censures,
lot because it does not seem to ine*
^diffieok to apdogtze for those nls^
images which have occasioned the loud-
i ooonbunfts, I will lay before your lord-
^|B what I have been id>le to collect
pBcnqinry, or to conjecture from ob-
imyoB ; imd doubt not but it will easily
iffeir, that nothing has been omitted
hn tty sppatani dei^ of betraying our
A. D. mi.
[see
country, and that our ministers and com-
manders will deserve, at least, to be heard
before they are condemned.
That great numbers of our trading ves*
sels have been seized by Ihe Spaniards,
and that our commerce lias therefore been
very much embarrassed, and interrupted,
is sufficiently manifest ; but to me, my
lords, this appears one of the certain and
necessary consequences of war, which are
always to be expected and to be set in
our consultations against the advantages
which we propose to obtain. It is as ra*
tional toexpect, that of an army sent against
our enemies, everjr man should return un«
hurt to his acquaintances, as that every
merchant should see his ship and cargo
sail safely into port.
If we examine, my lords, the late war,
of which the conduct has been so lavishly
applauded, in which the victories which
we obtained have been so loudly cele-
brated, and which has been proposed to
the imitation of all friture ministers, it will
appear that our losses of the same kind
were then very fVequent, and perhaps not
less complained of, thoush the murmurs
are now forgotten, and die acclamations
transmitted to posterity, because we natu*
rally relate what has given us satis&ction,
and suitress what we cannot recollect
without uneasiness.
If we look farther backward, my lords,
and enquire into the event oi any other
war m whidi we engaged since 'commerce
has ccmstituted so hurge a part of the in-
terest of this nation, I doubt not but in
projportion to our trade will be found our
losses ; and in ail future wars, as in the
present, I shall expect the same calamities
and the same complaints. For the escape
of any number of ships raises no transport,
nor produces any gratitude ; but the loss
of a few will always give occasion to cla-^
mours and discontent. For vigilance,
however diligent, can never produce more
safety than will be naturally expected from
our incontestable superiority at sea, by
which a great part ot the nation is so m
deceived as to imasine, that because we
cannot be conquered, we cannot be mo-
lested.
',*' Nor do I see how it is possible to em-
{doy our power more efi^tually for the
protection of our trade than by the me*
thod now pursued of covering the ocean
with our fleets, and stationing our ships
of war in every place where danger can
be apprehended. If it be urged, that the
ineffioacy of our measures is a sufficient
MTJ 15 OEORGS 11^
piWof tkeir ampiroprtect, it ^11 befmper
to sttbedtate aaotb^r pum of operation,
of which the sucoeas may be more probe*
ble.. To Bie» my lords, the loee of aome of
our aercantile vomcIs shows only the dls>
proportioo between the number of eur
^h^ of war, and the ei^tent of the aee»
which isa region too vast to be completely
garriaooedt and of which the ftiequenters
■uist inefitaUy be subject to the aodden
inconions of subtle rovers.
The disposition of our squadrons has
been sadi, as was doubtless dietated by
the most acute sagacityi and the most
enlightened experience. The squadron
which was appoioted Ito guard our coasts
has been ridiculed as an useless eaqpenoa ;
and its frequent excursions and retttms»
without anj memorable attempt, have
given occasion to endless raillery^ and ia-
tenspL Bat it is to be oonsideved, my
lords, that the enemies of this nation,
either secret or declared, had powerfiil
squadrons in many ports of the Mediterra*
which, had they known that our
were without defence, might have
i out on a sudden, and have appeared
iiBBS|)ectedlvm our channel, from whence
Ibey might have laid our towns in ruin,
entered our docks, burnt up aH imr pre*
paeons for future expeditions, carried
mto alaverr the inhabitants of our villages,
and left tlie maritime provmces of this
kiimdom in estate of general desolation.
• Out of this squadron, however neocssa
rr, diere was yet a reinforcement of five
s^ps ordered to assist Haddock, that he
■sight be enabled to oppose the designs of
the Spaniards, thougn as8iste4 by their
Frendi oenfiBderafees, whom it is known
that he was so &r from favouring, that he
was stetioned before Barcelona to block
them up. Why he departed from that
port, and upon what motives of policy, or
esBxkns of war, he suffered tiie Spaniards
to prosecute their scheme, he only is able
teinfermus.
That the Spaniards have net at least
been spared by design, is evident from
their suflbrings in tms war, which have
been much greater than ours. Many of
enr ships have indeed been snatched up
by the rapacity of private adventurem,
whom the ardour of interest had made vi-
gihmt, and whose celerity of pmsoit as
sveUasiight, enables them to tske the ad*
vantage of the situation of their own
porta, and tfaoseof their friends. But as
none ef our ships iiave been denied con* .
Z)sMtfMil&^£eh& ^
voya, I know not bow OiB IM erdmad
be imputed to the mioistiT; aadif im]
those who sailed under the proiscM
ships of war have been lost, the eoi
ders may be required to rindicste
selves from the charge of asgH|aio
treachery-
But this enquiry, my lords, miHthl
reserved
mv opmion, reservM for
when It may beicome the
iect ef our consultations, with vUi
has at present no coherence^ orioa
atleastitisvery ramottiyrdsted. ;
am not able, upon the most imparfel
the most attentive coasideratioaoflh
dress now proposed to your h»rddr|
perceive any necessity of a * '"^
quiry into die conduct of
transaction of our ncjgociatioas,
state of the kingdom, in onkr tt
ooinpliance' with tma asotien,by viiid
shall be far horn sheltering «qr (
from puniriunent, or any doubtful eoa
fivm enquiry; shall be 6r frtmi sImM
ing the course of naliond jostiee, m
proving what we do not undentaai
Tim chief tendanqr of his ns^
Speech is.to ask our advice on tim «
erdiiUMj conjuncture of afiutt, a
undoufaiedly worthy of a BritUimooa
and which we ought net to reqnilt
disrespect; but wiiat Iom ota bs ioii.
from an alteration of our estdiUiBdjiii
of address, by an oasissian of sdv
the Speedi; For wimt will beia
by his majesty, by the nation, sad ijf
whole wond, but that we did net
what we did not answer}
The Duke of Argyb :
Mj kwds; it is wtdi grstt
the preaent time has htSa
us from the throne as a time oiP uaoo
danger and disturbance, a timt in
thenarriersof kbgdorassoiebrsktadc
in contempt of every law efhesfoisa
earth, and in which aasbition, nptoe,
oppression, seem tobe letlooiea^ sM
kind; a time in whidi some nstionin
out annies and invade the territoiiei
their neigiibeurs, in opposition totiien
solemn treaties, of iriudi othsn, i
equal peifid]|r, silently suffer, or
fevour, the violation.
At a time like this, when trestiM I
considered only as momentary eipadisi
and alliances confer noeeco^y'ita*
dent that the preservation of our fif
our interest, and our cemaisvoe) i
depend only on our natandstmnidi'
on tie Adirctt f^Thankt.
A. D. IHl.
[«7©
ifliteador cakrating the fHendih^
Fftielgn poven, which we most pur-
n i»on dindvantigeoos c«nditioiui|
vUch will be wittidrawn ftom us
we sbaH need it; we ought
to coDect our own force, and
rthe world how little we stand m need
_ and how little we ha?e to
\1tm the most powerful of our ene-
cooDtajf my lords, seems de«
I bj natore to subsist without any
teoe on other nations, and by a
r ad resolute improvement of these
with which Providence has
, may bid defiance to mankind ;
(become, by die extension of our
, the general centre at which
I of the whole earth might be
together, and from whence it
be inued upon proper occasions,
I diiRBion of liberty, the repression
and the preservation of
tthis glory, and this tnflueooe, my
J most arise from domestic felicity ;
Ldomertic felicity can only be pro-
by a mutual confidence between
Dt and the people. Where
[gofemors distrust tne affections of
> lubjects, they will not be very soli-
S to sdvance their happiness; for
wiB endeavour to encrease that
I which win, as he believes, be em«
1 against him i Nor will the subjects
' 11/ concur even with the necessary
n of their governors, whose ge-
1 designs they conceive to be contrary
be piu)lic interest ; because any tem-
or accidental reputation,
ooly dazzle the eyes of the multitude
t taeir liberties are stolen away.
confidence, my lords, must be
where it exists, and regained
,. ^ it is lost, by the open administra-
Uf justice, by unpartial enquiries into
transactions, by the exaltation of
I whose wisdom and bravery has ad-
1 the public reputation, or encreased
piness of the nation* and the cen-
|e of those, however elate with digni-
f or surrounded with dependants^ who,
"^lir UDskilfulness or dishonesty, have
embarrassed their country or be-
lit.
flns reason, my lords, i^ is in my
o necessary to gratify th^ nation, at
jjipesent juncture, with the prospect of
pRnsMures, without which no peoj^le
atWOBablybe satisfied, and to pacify
their resentment of^ past injuries, and
^uiet their apprehensions of niture rnise*
nes, by a possibility at least, that they
may see the authors of all our miscar*
riages called to a trial in open day, and
the merit of those men acknowledged and
rewarded, by whose resolution and inte-
grity they imimne that the final ruin of
Uiemsehres and posterity has been hitherto
prevented.
That the present discontent df the Bri«
tish nation is afanost universal, that suspi-
cion has infused itself into every rank
and denomhiation of men, that complaints
of the neglect of our commerce, the mis-
application of our treasure, and the un-
successiulness of our arms, are to be
heard from every mouth, and in every
place, where men dare utter their sen-
timents, I suppose, my lords, no man wQl
deny; for whoever should stand up in op«
position to the truth of a fact so eenenJiy
Known, would distinguish himself even in
this age of effrontery and corruption, by si
contempt of reputation, not yet knowii
amon^ mankind.
And indeed, niy lords, it must be con-
fessed that these discontents and damouri
are produced by such an appearance of
folly, or of treachery, as few ages or na<»
tions have ever known ; by such an ob^
stinate perseverance in bad measures, aa
shame nas hitherto prevented in thostf
upon whom nobler motives, fidelity to
their trust, and love of their country, had
lost their influence.
Other ministers, when they have formed
designs of sacrificing the public interest
to uieir own, have been compelled to
better measures by timely discoveries, and
just representations ; they have been cri*^
minal only because they hoped for ne^tecf^
and have vindicated their conduct no
longer than while they had hopes thai
their apologies might deceive.
But our heroic ministers, my lords^
have set themselves free from the shacklea
of circumspection, they have disburthened
themselves of the embarrassments of cau-
tion, and clum an exemption from thil
necessity of supporting their measures b^
laborious deductions and artfiil reason-
ings ; they defy the public when tl^e^ can
no longer delude it, and prosecute, m thet
face of the sun, those measures whkk
they have not been able to support^ and of
which the fatal consequences are foreseen
by the whole nation.
When they have been detected hi one
absurdity, they take shelter m another;
«71]
15 GEOAGE IL
when ezperieQce hts shown that one of
their attempts was designed only to injure
their country, they propose a second of
the same kkid with equal oonfidence,
boast again of their integrity, and again
ireduire the concurrence of the legislature,
ana the support of the people.
When they had for a long time suffered
our trading vessels to be seized in sieht
of our own ports, when they had dis-
patched 4eet8 into the Me<iiterranean,
only to lie exposed to the injuries of the
weather, and to sail from one coast to
another, only to show that they had no
hostile intentions, and that th^y were
fitted out by the friends of the Spaniards,
only to amuse and exhaust the nation,
they at length thought it necessary to lull
the impatience of Uie people, who began
to discover that they liaa hitherto been
harassed with taxes and impresses to no
purpose, by the appearance of a new
effort for tne subjection of the enemy,
and to divert, by the expectations which
an army and a fleet naturally raise, any
clamours at their past conduct.
For this end, having entered into their
usual consultations, they projected an
expedition to America, for which they
raised forces and procured transports,
WiUi all Uie pomp of preparation for
the conquest of half the continent, not
ao much to alarm the Spaniards, which I
conceive but a secondary view, as to fill
the people of Britain with amusing pros-
pects 01 great achievements, of the addi-
tion of new dominions to this empire, and
' an ample reparation for all their damages.
Thus provided with forces sufficient in
appearance for this mighty enterprise,
tney embarked them after many delaprs,
and dismissed them to their fate, havmg
first disposed their regulations in such a
manner, that it was impossible that they
should meet with success.
I can call your lordships to witness,
that this impossibility was not discovered
by roe after the event, for I foretold in
this House, that their designs, so con-
ducted, must evidently miscarry.*
Nor was this pr^iction, my lords, the
effect of any uncommon sagacity, or any
accidental coniecture on future conse-
quences which happened to be right ; for
to any man who has had opportunities of
observing that knowledge in war is neces-
sary to success, and experience is the
.. * Se* the Duke of Argyle*s Speech pa the
State dr the Army, ? ol. 11, p. 894.
DehOeiniheLarJi [fj
foundation of knowledge, it wss sufi
dentlv phun that our forces must t)en
pulsed.
The forces sent to America, my lord
were newly raised, placed under tl
direction m officers not less ienorar
than themselves, and commanded by
man who never had' commanded an
troops before; and who, however laudi
bly he might have discharged the duty i
a captain, was wholly unacquainted wii
the province of a general.
Yet was this man, my lords, preferrei
not only to a multitude of other officer
to whom experience must have been i
small advantage, if it did not fumii
them with knowledge &r superior to hi
but to five and forty generals, of whom
hope the nation has no reason to suspe
that any of them would not gladly hav
served it on an occasion of so ereat in
portance, and willingly have conducted a
expedition intended to retrieve the bi
nour of the British name, the terror i
our arms, and the security of our cod
merce.
When raw troops, my lords, wit
young officers, are to act under the cod
mand of an unskilful general, what is
reasonable to expect, but what has ha]
pened, overthrow, slaughter, and igm
miny? What but that cheap victorii
should heighten the insolence, and harde
the obstinacy of our enemies; and th
we should not only be weakened by oi
loss, but dispirited by our disgrace; b
the disgrace of bein^ overthrown by tha
whom we have despised, and with wboi
nothing but our own foUy could have n
duced us to a level ?
The other conjecture which I venUm
to propose to vour lordships, with regu
to the queen of Hungary, was not founds
on &cts equally evident with th6 fonoe
though experience has discovered that
was equally true. It was then assert©
both by other lords and myself, th
money would be chosen by that prince
as an assistance more useful than force
an opinion, which the lords who are ei
gaged in the administration vigorously o]
posed. In consequence of their detcm
nation, forces were hired,-^or what pa
pose let them now declare, since none bi
themselves have yet known.
That at least they were not taken a^
our pay for the service for whidi the
were required, the succoar of the Houi
of Austria, is most evident, unl^ tt
name of armies .is imagined suScieot t
873]
tm the AdSress of Thanh*
h. \>. 1741*
im
iotimidfUe the French, as the Spaniards
are to be subdued by the sight of fleeta.
Xbey never mardiea tovraraa her fron-
tiers» naver opposed her enemies^ or af-
forded ker the least assistance, but stood
idle and uncoucemed in the territories of
Haoorer; nor was it known that tliey
exked hj any other prooC than that re*
zmtunces vere made for their pay.
Such, my lords^ was the assistance,
eked with do much solicitude, and levied
vith BO much expedition, for the queen
of Hungary ; such were the effects of the
zeal ^oor illustrious ministers for the
preserradon of that august House, to
wboie alliance we are perhaps indebted
fbr the preservation c^ our religion and
our liberties^ and to which all Europe
must have recoane for shelter from the
ororession of France.
When this formidable body of men was
asttmhled, my lords, and reviewed, they
lefe pexhapfi found too gracefnl and too
vcQ sorted to be exposed to the dangers
of a battle ; and the same tenderness that
bfls so looff preserved our own forces from
aaj otber field than the Park, m^ht rescue
than &am the fiuij^es of accompanying
the active hussars in their incursions, or
the ateadj Austrians in their conflicts.
Whatever was the reason, my lords, it
^certain that they have been reserved for
^^ opportuoities of signalizing their
coirage, and they slept in quiet, and fat^
tened upon the wealth of Great Britain,
vLik tlie enenaies of our illustrious, mag-
Mnimous, and unfortunate ally, enter^
lier territoi les without opposition, marched
through them uninterrupted, and rather
took possession than maoe conquests.
Tbat in thia condition of her affiurs,
the queen would refuse an ofEer of 12,000
■ifcQ; that when she was driven from- one
countiT to another, attended b^ an. army
>UDccfy sufficient to form a flying camp,
^ would not [^adly have accepted a.rein-»
irooneat so powerful, let those believe,
BT lords, who have jcet never been de-
ceived by ministerial faith.
Tlie zeal desijj^ of the ministry, my
Wdi, aice sufficiently obvious; nor i»
^ any thing more certain, than that
they had in requiring this mock assistance
tor the queen of l£ingary, no other de-
>gDf than that of raising her expectations
oolj to deceive Uiem ; and to divert heri.
bjcflnfideoee in their preparation^ from
lariog rtcoune to mose efficacious expe-
^■Ati, that.she-migbt become, without rer
Mact, the slave of Fxance«
[VOUXII.]
For this purpose they determined to
succour her with forces rather than wiA
n^eney; because many reasons might be
pretended, bv which the march of the
forces might be retarded; but the money^
my lords, when granted, must have been
more speedily remitted.
At last the queen, weary with dekysi
and undoubtedly sufficiently informed of
those designs, which are now, however
generally discovered, confidently denied,
desired a supply of money,, which might
be granted without leaving Hanover ex*
posed to an invasion. With this demand,
which they had no pretence to deny, they
have yet found expedients to delay their
con^pliance* For it does not appear that
the whole sum granted has yet been paid ;
and it would well become those noble
lords^ whose offipea ffive them ^n oppor<*
tunitj of observing the distribution of the
pubhc money, to justify themsdves fron^
the suspicions of the nation, by declaring
openly what has been remitted, and what
yet remains* to. be disbursed fox some
other purpose.
Ib it not therefore evident, my lords,
that by promisine assistance to uiia un«
happy princess, the ministry intended to
deceive her ? That when they flattered her
with the approach of auxiliary forceSf
they designea only to station them where'
they might garrison the frontiers of Han-
over ? And that when they forced her ta
solicit for pecuniary aid, they delated the
payment of the suDsidy, that it might not
be received till it could'produce no effect }
This, my lords, is not only evident
from the manifest absurdity of their con-
duct upon any other supposition, but from
thq general scheme which has always
been pursued by the man whose dicta-
torial instructions regulate the opinions of
all those that constitute the ministry, and
of whom it is well known, that it haa
been the great purpose of his life to ag«
grandize France, by applying to her for
assistance in imaginary aistresses from fic-
titious confederacies, and by sacrificing to
her in return the House of Austria, and
the commerce of Britam.
How then, my lords, can it be asserted
by us, that the House of Austria has been
vigilantly supported? How can we ap*
prove measures of which we discover no
effect but the expence of the nation ? A
double expence, produced first by raising
troops, which, though granted for the as^
sistance ofthe Austrians, have been made
use of only for the pvotectioD of Han^Ter^
[Tl^
275] 15 GEORGE 11.
and by the grant of money in the place of
these troops which were thus&llaciously ob-
tainedy and thus unprofitably employed !
For what purpose these forces were in
reality raisea, I suppose no man can be
ignorant, and no man to whom it is known
can possibly approve it. How then, my
lords, can w,e concur in an addresa by
which the people must be persuaded, that
we either are deceived ourselves, or en-
deavour to impose upon them; that we
either dare not condemn any measures
however destructive, or that at least we
are in haste to approve them, lest enquiry
should discover tneir tendency too plainly
to leave us the power of applauding them,
without an open declaration of our own
impotence, or disregard for the welfare of
the public.
Tiie complamts of the people are al-
ready damorous, and their discontent
open and universal; and surely the voice
of the people ought at least to awake us
to an examination of their condition.
And though we should not immediately
condemn those whom they censure and\
detest, as the authors of their miseries, we
ought at least to pav so much regard to
the accusation of the whole community,
as not to reject it without enquiry, as a
suspicion merely chimerical.
^ Whether these complaints and suspi-
cions, my lords, proceed from real inju-
ries and unminent dangers, or from false
accAisations and groundless terrors, they
equally deserve the attention of this
House, whose great care is the happiness
of the people : people equally worthy of
your tenderness ana regard, whether they
are betrayed by one paHy or another ;
whether Uiey are plunaered by the advo-
cates of the adnunistration, under pre-
tence of supporting the government, or
affrighted with . unreasonable clamours by
the opponents of the court, under the
necious appearance of protecting liberty.
The people, mv lords, are in either case
equally miserable, and deserve equally to
be rescued from distress.
By what method, my lords, can this
be effected, but by some public assurance
from this House, that the transactions of
the nation shall no longer be concealed in
impenetrable secrecy ; that measures shall
be no longer approved without examina-
tion ; that public evils shall be traced to
their causes; and that disgrace, which
they have hitherto brought upon the
public, shall fall for the future only upon
the authors of them?
Debate in the L%rds [27^
Of ^ving this assurance, and of quiets
ing by it the damours of the people, cla^
mours which, whether just or not, are too
formidable to be slighted, and too loud
not to be heard, we have now the mostj
S roper opportunity before us. The Ad^
ress which the practice Hif our ancestor^
requires us to make to his majesty, maj
give us occasion of expressing at onc«
our loyalty to the crown, and our fidelity
to our countty, our zeal for ttie honour oi
our sovereign, and our regard for the
happiness of the people.
For this purpose it is necessary that, aJ
we preserve the practice of our ancestor]
in one respect, we revive it in another
that we imitate those in just freedom o|
language whom we follow in the decenj
forms of ceremcmy ; and show, that as w^
preserve, like them, a due sense of th^
regal dignity, so like them we know likej
wise how to preserve our own, m
despise flattery on one nde, as we dedio^
rudeness on the other.
A practice, my lords, has prevailed o
late, which caunot but be allowed pemi
cious to the public, and derogatory fron
the honour (k this House ; a practice (n
retaining {n our Address tike^words of tfa^
Speech, and of foUowing it servilely frod
period to period, as if it were expected
that we should always adopt the sent!
ments of the court, as if we were not suni|
moned to advise but to approve, and apj
prove without examination.
By such addresses, my lords, aQ enquij
ries may be easily preduded ; for the mi^
nister by whom the Speech is compiledj
may easily introduce the most crimina
transactions in sudi a manner, as thaj
they may obtain the approbation of thij
House ; whlbh he mayplead afterwards a|
our bar, when he shall be called before itj
and either involve us in the diBgrace of in|
consistency, and expose us to general codi
tempt, or be acquitted by our former m
frages, which it would be reproachful t|
retract, and yet criminal to confinn.
It is not necessary, my lords, on thil
occasion to observe, what all parties havj
long since acknowledged, when it did no{
promote their interest to deny it, thd
every Speech from the throne is to W
consideied as the work of the minlsteij
because it is generally written by him^
or if composed by the king himself, xxm
be drawn up in pursuance of the inform*
tion and counsel of the ministry, txi who j
it is therefore ultimately to be referredl
and may consequently be examined with
877J
on the Address of Thanks.
A. D. 1741.
DB78
oat 9BJ hibae of respect to the person of
theprmce.
Injs oogfat however to be observed,
loj lords, mt it may appear more plainly
hem oertaiidy this practice may be imputed
to the artifices of ministers, since it does
AOt promote the honour of Uie prince, Imd
roaiufestly obstructs the interest of the
people; since it is a practice irrational in
itKlf, becaose it is inconsistent with the
great purpose of this ^House, and can
thefefore serve no other than, that of
procartjig indemnity to the ministers, by
ins Uiem out of the reach of future
Let not, my lords, the uninterrupted
coDtinQance of this practice for some
re^ be pleaded in its . defence, for no-
tbiag is more worthy of Uie ^Ugnity of this
House, than to prevent the multiplication
<^ dangerous precedents. That a custom
iDfflifestly injurious to the public has con-
tinoed lopg, is the strongest xeason for
breaking it, because it acquires every year
nev authority and greater veneration : if
when a nation is alarmed and distracted, a
custom of twenty years is not to be in-
iringed, it may in twenty years more be
so fiimly established, that many i may
think it necessary to be supported, even
vben those calamities are incontestably
felt, which perhaps how are only feared.
I ihaU therefore, my lords, propose that
of the Address moved for, all^e left out
bot the first paragraph ; it will then be
more coosistent with the honour of your
iordships, witii our regard for the people,
ttd with oar duty to the crown, and hope
Aolord will refuse his concurrence.
Lord Chancellor Hardmcke:
My lords ; upon an attentive considera-
tioo of the Address now proposed, I am
&ot able to discover any obj^tions which
can justly hinder the unanimous concur-
f^ce of this House, since there is not
^y proposition contained in it either dan-
gerous or uncertain.
The noble lords who have opposed this
ouKioQ with the most ardent vehemence,
ttevervfar from denying what is asserted
in it; they readily grant that designs are
^^''Qcettea by many fi>rmidable powers
■gainst the House of Austria^ and that the
««»eqaeoces of the ruin of that family
>uttt extend to the utmost parts of Europe,
>Dd endanger the liberties of Great Bri-
^ itself; that the power of France will
^ be without a rival, and that she may
^mrds gratify her aoibition without
"U lod wimont dangec
Nor is it, my lords, less obvious in itself,
or less generally allowed, that this is a
time which demands the most active vi-
gour, the most invariable unanimity, and
die most diligent dispatch ; that nothing*
can interrupt the course of our common
enemies but the wisest counsels, and the
most resolute opposition ; and that upon
our conduct at this great conjuncture may
probably depend the happiness and liberty
of oursdlves, our allies, and our posterity.
All this, mv lords, is allowed to bo
apparently and indisputably true ; I am
therefore at a loss to conceive what can
be the occasion of the ddbate in whick
some of your lordships havb en^^aged. As
the causes of the calamities which are said
to threaten us are not assigned in the
address, we shall leave ourselves at full li«
bertv to charge them upon those who
shall appear from future enquiries to de-
serve so heavy an accusation.
If the ministers have by any inconstancy *
in their measures, or folly in their nego-
ciations, given an opporttinity to the ene-
mies of Europe to extend their influence,
or endangerea either our Own interest, or
that of our allies ; if they have by oppres*
sion or negligence alienated from his ma-
jesty the fSfections of his people, or the
confidence of his confederates, nothing
thatis contabed in the Address now before
us can be producM by them in justifica-
tion of their conduct, or secure them from
accusation, censure, and punishment.
If the war, my lords, ha& been hitherto
carried on with clandestine stipulations, or
treacherous compacts ; if our admirals
have received orders to retire from the
coast of Spain, only to give our enemies
an opportunity of invading the dominions
of the queen of Hungary, or have without
directions deserted their stations, and
abandoned the protection of our com-
merce and our colonies; we shiill, not-
withstanding this Address, retain in our
hands die privilege t>f enquiring into
their conduct, and the power, if it be
found criminal, of inflicting such penalties
as justice shall require.
I know not therefore, my lords, upon
what motives the debate is continued, nor
what objections they are which hinder
our unanimity, at a time when all petnr
controversies ought to be forgot, and^ aU
nominal distinctions laid aside ; at a time
when general danger may justly claim
general attention, and we ou^ht to sus-
pend the assertionof our particular opi-
nions, and the prosecution of our jepa-
2»J
15 GEORGE IL
late interartSy Aod vdgavd onfy the oppod-
tiom of prince, Che support t£ our auiei,
md the pre«ervatiofi or our oeuntrj;
The noble lords who have ofiered dieir
ieadments on this occasion^ have very
diffusely expatiated on the miseries that
ioipena over us, imd have diewn ttncem-
non dexterity and acuteness in tracing
them all to one soarce, the wetdoMss or
difihwiesty of the British ministry.
For my part, my lords, though ^iliaps
I believe ttiat many circumstances of the
present distress are to be imfnited to acci-
dents which could not be foreseen, and that
Ifie oondnct of the ministry, however some*
times disappointed of the efiects inAended
by it, was yet pradent and sincere, I shail at
present forbear to engage in tlieir defiance,
because the discussion of a question so
complicated must necessarily require much
tiaie, and because I think it not so useful
i^o enquire bow we were involved in our
present 4HBcoHiee, as by what means we
minr be«xtricated from tiieni*
The method by whidi weak states are
laade strong, and by which those that am
Idready powerful, are enabled to esert
their strength with efficacy, k the promo-
tion of union, and the abolition of all sus-
pjcioRs by which the pecmle may be in-
cited to a distrust of their sovereign, or
the sovereign provoked to a disregard of
)iis people. With diis view, my lords, aH
addresses ought to be drawn up, and tins
consideration will be sufficient to restrain
us from any innovations at a time like this.
If it should be granted, my lords, that
Ae ancient method were better ada[rted to
the general intention of addfesses, more
ponrespendent to thedignky of this House,
and liable to fewer inconvenienoes than
'that which later times have introduced,
yet it wiU not follow that we can now
Si^y change it.
Nothing m the whole^octrine of poKticB
b better known, than that inhere are times
when the redress of grievances inveterate
and customary is not to be attempted;
fames when the utmost care is barely suffi-
cient to avert extreme calamities, and pre^
vent a totd dnsolution ; and in whidi the
.consideration of lighter ^Is must viot be
suiered to interrupt moretmportaDft coun-
sels, or divert that aittention which the
preservation of the state necessarily de-
inands.
8uch, my lords, is die present timet
even by %he confession ef liiose who have
opposed 1^ motion, tmd of wiiom there-
fere it may tienSismMsr demanded, friiy
I
BibateiniimLvris
tiieyiswte these important %eQi« n de-
bates upon forms and words ?
Fw that enlv fiHins and words have
prodnced the debate, must be appsreot,
even to themsdves, when 4tit fervour of
coBtroveny shall hsve skdEened; when
that vehemenoe with winch the most mo-
derate are swneiimcs transported, and tbt
acrimony, which eandonr Mself eannot tU
as levbear, ehidl give way to reflecdoa
to reason. That the danger ii press*
ing, and that pressing dangers re^pnre
expeditien and unannnity, theywiflingly
grant ; and what more is asseited in tHt
Address ?
That any lord -should be unwUlin; to
concur in the customary expressions d
thanldnkiess and duty to lus majesty, or
m acknowledgments of that regard fbr this
House with wkicb he asks oar asaistSBCfe
and advice, I am unwilKng to suspect;
nor can I ima^ne that any part of the op*
position to this preposd can be prodnoed
by unwillingness to comfrfy widi bis nt-
jesty's demands, and to promise that sd*
vice and assistance, w^ich it is ow doty,
both to our sovereign, our coimtiy, and
ourselves, to <tfbr.
That those, my lords, who have eK>
pressed in terns so fidl of indsgnstioB
their resentment of the ina^inaiy neglect
of the queen 'of Hungary's mterest, have
declared the House of Anstna the ooIt
bulwark of Euifope, and esprened their
dread of tlie encroedmients of Fnnce
wMi emotions which nothing bat red
passion can produce, shonM be omrifKof
to assert their resolution ef adhering to
the Pragmatic Sanction, aod of defmiof
the liberties of the empire, cannot be aip-
posed.
And yet, my lords, what odier reasons
of their conduct can be assigned either by
his majesty, or the people, or the allies of
Great Bntain ; those aflies whose claim
they so warmly assert, and whose merits
d^ so loudly extol I Will It not be ima-
gined in foreign courts, that the measora
now recommended by ^e king, are
thought not consistent with the iatere^ of
the nation ? WUl it not be readily he-
lieved, that we propose to abandiio tinst
desigBB of whicfi we cannot be petaaadefl
to declare our approbation f
What will be the coasequeaoe of saw
an opinion nrtiiilly pi^opaget^ by Fraooe,
and confirmed by appearances so l^^^^T^
deceive, may «ctttik be foreseen, and
safely predicted. The Frendi will prose-
cute mm fidhaneB witii fte* «i^^>
»]
0m tke Atansti vfHwnkt*
A. B. n«ii
rm
irlea Aiy <teld MO kM^r Miy interrujp-
doQ ft«B liie <ii]ly nation Mm lo venst
dkfli; and it k m^ ikuoim, my lofdft,
liov «tai oofiMtnce, l)y «Kcit»g oou-
nf e, produces success.
Kor, indeed, can the success •£ tkeir
fodesToun, thus animated and quickened,
keeiaiy 4odteed, shice the sane appear-
noeslliBt eBOsatige tbem will htthnkiate
theireteniei. Oor etties will tiien tlni^
M \mtget of mmi against the general
csesiy; they nrast (imaeiae their united
force ismffioient, and the only emulation
HMm^them will quiddy be, which shall
fint offer his liberty to sale, who sMl
fim piy his court to the nnsters of the
wdd, and nerit iMSMy by a epeedy sub-
Thus, ny lords, wiH the House of Aws-
^thstilaasesw ialthfiii to ()t«fl(t iBri-
tra, nd sovteady m its opposkion to the
doigH «C Rrench andntioo, he ibally
Bnkm irrecoverable rain, byllMise who
to please themsehres with deda-
s in lU praise, and resolotioaa fm
ia Mace; and who sever apeak of the
FRAch iritfioat rage aad deieatatioR.
If on dm occasion, asylopis, we sboald
five ny saspicion of vmisual diseofateot,
vhicoaldbecoacludedbalt that we are
amwHi^ aay longer to easbarrass our-
•dves with remote cooidderations, to load
Ihs nation with taxes lor the presemwtion
«fthengfat8«C otlier sovereigns, and to
^aardtnaieB in the dofeace of the oonti-
%<»t \ What can <nir allies thmk, hut that
^a« at present weary of the burthen-
^ttoe and expensive honour of holding the
Unoeof power in our hmds, are eon-
^ to reaign the unquiet provmce 0f the
trintm of Europe, and propose to con-
^onr«afe heaoeforward to omr iraiae-
^ interest, and shat «ip oafselves ki
tat own idand ?
That this is the real design of any of
^ noble lords who htfve opposed the
^ioB, 1 do ttdt intend to inaonate : for
f dmbi aot bat they behewe tffie general
^°t»»t both of this nation and its allies,
^ likely to be promoted by the method
^f^i^drcanHMi they recommeiid, since
°^ dedare that they do aot think omr
^^dnpecata, and confess Ihe import*
^^ the afim on whidi we are rer
^""^dbjhismsjesty todetibeiate, tohe
m^) wt aolhiag oocht to repress ow
*'^^*^on bat impoasiraity of success.
^ is the knowledge mid experience
« ««e nsMe lords, that the hopes which
^ ^ kmai of feeing the deatradive
i
attdnMi df the ftMch ^oa teaaa do*
fisate^ and power restorad agamtothalt
e«iaipoise whidi is neceasaiy 'to die Km^
tinuanoe <if tranfaSBity aad hflppjama^
have received, new strength fram their
concurrence, and I shall now hear with
less solicitade the tbreafis of Fraaee.
That the French, my loids> are not li^
vincible, itie nehl^ duke who spoke lait
has often ejEperien<^; nor is there any
reason for imagining that they are aoar
more fbrmidaMe thim when we eacoon-
tered them ia the fields of Bleaheim 4nid
Ramillies. Nothing is requisite bat a
firm miion among those prinoes who are
immediately in danger from their en-
croachments, to re&ce tiiem to with-
drarw their forces from the comitries of
their neighbours, and ^[uit, for the de-
fence of their own leititories, their adhemes
of bestowing empires, and dividing dond-
nions.
That such an tmimi is naw eaitivatad,
we have been, infbrmed by his uagca^
whose endeavours wiM probably he aao* .
cessBd, however they may a(t first ha
thwarted and obatraoted; haoause ifaa
near a^^proach of dan(^ wfll rouse thaaa
Whom avarice has ^upified, er negligence
intoxicated; tbos troth and rewon wiU
become every day more powerM, and
sophistivandartiacebein thne certainly
detected.
When therefore, fny lords, we are en*
gaged ia ooasalwtiims vrhioh may afieet
the liberties of « great ^part <of manloind,
and hy which our jNntenly to aiaay ag«s
may be made happy or ndserable; when
the daily progress of the enemies of jastioe
and of medom ought to awaken us to v«-
gilaaoe and expedition, mid there are yet
just hopes that dSigence and firmness may
preserve us from ruin, let us aot waste
our time in unnecessary debates, and heeji
the nirtiona of Europe in sospenoe hytae
discussion of a ouesttoa, the decision of
which may be dcaayed for years, without
any maidfest inconvenience. Let ns not
emharrass his majesty by an unusual fenrm
of address, at a time when he is nega*
dating alliances, and forming plans tor
the rescue of the empire.
Nothing, my lords, is more remote fram
the real ^id of addresaes, than a repre-
seatatien of them as made only to the tm*
nister; for if there be any ommneroe be-
tween a prince and his subjects, in whidi
he is the inifflediate i^nt, if his persamd
dignity be interested in any act of govera-
tneat, I thiokit is tiot tele denied, that
98S]
15 GEiORGE IL
Debate in the Lords
in receiving the addresses of the two
Houses, he assumes a peculiar and dis-
tinct character} which cannot be con-
founded with his council or ministry.
The Duke of Argylt :
My lords; if there was now any con-
4est amongst us for superiority of regard
to his majesty^ of zeal for his honour, or
reverence or his person, I should not
doubt of proving that no lord in this
House can boast of more ardour, fidelity,
or respect than myself; and if the chief
question how amongst us related to the
terms in which he deserves to be addressed
hy us, 1 ^ouldbe unwilling that any man
should propose, langu^e more submissive
and reverent, or more forcible and com-
prehensive, than myself.
But addresses, nowever they may for
present purposes be represented as re«
garding the personal character of the
£ing, are in reality nothine more- than
.replies to a Speech composed by the mi-
nister, whose measures u we should ap-
pear to commend, our panegyric may, m
some future proceeding, be cited against
us. Every address therefore ought to be
considered as a public record, and to be
drawn up, to inform the nation, not to
mislead our sovereign.
.The Address now proposed, is indeed
equally indefensible to whomsoever it may
be suppoised to relate. If it respects the
people, it can only drive them to despair ;
if it be confined to the sovereign, our
advice, not our panegyric, is now re-
quired, and Europe is to be preserved
from ruin, not by our eloquence, but our
sincerity. Respect to his majesty, my
lords, will be best shown by preserving
his influence in other nations, and his au-
thority in his own kingdom. This can
only be done by showing him how the one
has been impaired, and how the other may
be in time endan^red.
~ By addresses like this which is now pro-
posed, 'my. lords, has his majesty been
betrayed mto an inadvertent approbation
i>f measures pernicious to the nation, and
dishonourable to himself, and will now be
kept ignorant of the despicable conduct of
the war, the treacherous connivance at
the descent of the Spaniards upon the do-
minions of the queen of Hungary, and
the contempt with which every nation of
|he continent has heard of the neutrality
lately concluded. By addresses like this,
my lords, have the. rights of the nation
bef n silently given up, and the invaders
t«
of liberty, and violators of ^(mr laws m
served fiom prosecution; by such n
dresses have our monarchs been miaaii
one time, and. our country enslaved i
another.
Lord Harrington:
My lords; it is necessary to expla
that treaty of neutrality* wmch hasbei
mentioned by some lords as an act toll
last d^ree snamelul, an act by wbidt i
nation has been dishonoured, aodthei
nend liberties of Europe have beeo {
trayed; a representation so distant fa
the truth, that it can only be imputeji
want of information.
This treaty of neutndity, myloidiy
so far from being reproach&l to thbi
tif^n, that it has no relation to it, bei
made by his majesty not in the chanui
of king of Great Britain, but ^tor^
Hanover ; nor is any thing stipulated U
but security of the dominions of Haosi
from the invasion of the French, fii^
single year. |
What part of this transaction, my Id
can be supposed to fall under the cog^
zance of this House I Or with what i/i
priefy can it be mentioned in our debatj
or produce an argument on either b4|
That the dominions of Great BrttaiA||
Hanover are distinct and independenM
each other, has often been asserted, ||
asserted with truth; and I hope thosei^
so studiously separate their interest oaf
other occasions, will not now unite tbi
only to reflect maliciously on the coodl
of his majesty.
I do not, indeed, charge any lord^
a design so malignant and unjust ; bsrii
already asserted it as my opioioo, th
these reproaches were produced ^ri
ignorance of the true state of the M
but cannot with equal readiness allow th
ignorance to be wholly blameless.
It is necessary, my lords, in comoH
life, to every man who would avoid ca
tempt and ridicule, to refrain from spepi
ing, at least fi'om speaking with cosl
dence, on subjects with which he has »
made himself sufiiciently acquabted. 11
caution, my lords, is more necessary wkl
his discourse tends to the accusation <
reproach of another, because he can the
only escape contempt himself by brioga
it, perhaps unjustly, on him whom hecfli
demns. It is more necessary sdll to U
♦ Lord Harrington was abroad with tl
king when this Treaty was concliided.
SS5J
on the Address of Thanh.
vfao speab id the public council of the
nation, and who may by false reflections
bjare the poUic interest, and is yet more
iDdispensamy required in him who assumes
the province of examining the conduct of
his soverjigiL
The Earl of Aiy.-
Mj lords ; it appears that all those who
htre spdce on either side of the present
floeslion, however they may generally dif-
fer in their opinions, agree at least in one
asertioQ, that the time which is spent in
this ddMtte might be far more usefiuly em-
ployed, and that we in some degree aesert
the great cause of liberty, by giving way
to tr^in^ altercations.
This, indeed, is an argument of equal
fifce for a concession on either side ; but
a, in affiurs of such importance, no man
ought to act in a manner contrary to the
eosrictioDs of his own reason, it cannot be
opected that we should be unanimous in
ur opinion, or that the dispute should be
determioed otherwise than by the vote.
I have, indeed, heard no arguments
against the motion, which require long
cooiideration ; for little of what has been
uged, has in my opinion been very nearly
coDQected with the question before us,
thich b not whether the ministers have
porsued or neglected the interest of the
ution, whether the laws have been vio-
bKd or observed, the war timorously or
BigDUumoualy conducted, or our nego-
ottiooa managed with dexterity or weak-
ness, bat whemer we shall offisr to his ma-
jotj the Address proposed.
u this Address, my lords, it has never
fA been proved that any assertions are
(Attined either ftlse, or uncertain in
^^fnudves, or contraiy to the dignity of
tb House; that any act of cowardice or
^^Qcbery, any crime, or any error, will be
*>cved by it from detection and from
pazushment.
Thatthb, my lords, may appear more
P^i I move that the motion may be
^; nor do I doubt but that the question
*^bj a closer examination, be speedily
^^cided. The motion being again read,'
W Batkurst rose and said :
My lords; I know not why the noble
M dioold expect, that by reading the
^&9 a more speedy determmation of
Jr5(lttestion would be produced: for if
"* repeated consideration of it operates
^poD me nunds of the lords that have op-
I^it m die same manner as upon mine,
A. D. 1741. 1986
it will only confirm their opinion, and
strengthen their resolution.'
We are required, my lords, to join in aa
address of thanks to his majesty for his'
endeavours to maintain the balance of
Cer ; in an address, that inaplies a fidse-
1 opien and indisputable, and which will'
therefore only make us contemptible to our
fellow subjects, pur allies, and our enemies. '
What is meant, my lords, by the balance
'of power, but suc^ a distribution of domi-
nion, as may keep the sovereign powers ii^
mutual dread of each other, ana by con-
sequence preserve peace, such an equality
of strengtn between one prince, or one
confederacY| and another, that the hazard
of war shall DO nearly eoual on each side?
But which of your loroships will affirm,
that this is now the state of Europe ?
It is evident, my lords, that the French
are far from imaginmg diat there is now
any power which can be put in the balance
against their own, and therefore distribute
kmgdoms by caprice, and exalt emper6rt
upon their own terms.
It is evident, that the continuance of the
balance of power is not now to be per-
ceived by its natural consequences, tran-
quillity and liberty ; the whole continent'
is now in confusion, laid waste by the ra-
vages of armies, subject to one sovereign
to*day, and to-morrow to another ; there
is scarcely any place where the calamities
of war are not felt or expected, and where,
property by consequence is not uncertain,
and life itself in continual danger.
One happy comer of the world indeed
is to be round, my lords, secured from
rapine and massacre, for one year at least,
by a well-timed neutridity, of which, on
what terms it was obtained, I would gUdly
hear, and whether it was purchased at the
expence of the honour of Great Britain,
though the advantages of it are confined to
Hanover.
But as I am not of opinion, my lords,
that the balance of power is preserved by
the security of Hanover; or that thos^
territories, however important, will be able
to furnish forces equivalent to the power
of France, I cannot agree to promise
in an address of this House to assist his
majesty in maintaining the balance of
power, though I shall ^eerfuUy give my
concurrence in every just and vigorous
effort to restore it.
But as it may be urged, that any direct
expressions of discontent mfty be too wide
a oeviation from the common forms, which
for a long time have admitted nothing but
887}
15 GEOUGE IL
The Lori^ Addrett ofTianit.
l«
tftbmiwriqn and iddfltioo^ I ahaEanly "ven-
tore to propose, tbat we may at least coo^
fjACt our Address, tbat if we da not in
^ain language declars all qht santimenta,.
wa loay however affian ni)thiag tbatweda
not think; and I am confrfent, that all the li is better acquainted than any lord in tk
praises which can be justlj bestowed on ^ House with the present state of^Euron
ue late measure^ may be coaapdaed la a> ! so that he is more able, to^ judge by i£
very few words. * "'" '^' " —-"-"- ^
wonder that I heap any suspicion iuitQ
ated of ii\j^tjce or imi)ropriety in hia «
jeaty's measUres, of whose wialom ai
goodness I have so much knovkd^^asi
affirai with the utmost confidence, that |
It has been inauuiated,, that this change
of our stile roa;^ perliapa aurpriae his ma*
JMl^y and raise m him some suanjciona of
oiscantentanddisapprohaUoDi; tCatitmajiP
iacKoe him ta- believe iu&meaawes^ either
notuadecstoodlw, us,, or not iqpplauded,
«nd divert him nom his present schemes
by^ the necessity of an enqpiny into tha.
reasons of our wHke*
And for what otbes purpose* m$ loadsi
aftoiild such a ^Aaasfs c« ouc alite be pro-
Iiosed} Wbg 8be«ild we deny on thia oc»
casion the encomiastic laogui^ whieh has.
Imea! of kte aapro&iaaly beato«e4 but ta
4m»w that we tbrnkthis-tHne too^dangasouat
for flattery, and the meaaurea now pursued
aucfa aa m»e. but the mos^ abject mittevers
Oia commend f
I should hope, thai if it he asked ikj his^
9uyesty to what oaqse it i& to be imputed,.
Ibat.tke Address of tfiia House is. so much.
Cttxtnu^tad^ theire should ha found seoaa
amoD^ US' honest enoug^ to answer, tbat
all wmch cam. ba said with truth ia con-
tained in itj, and that flattery and fidse«-
hood were ant csonaistant with the dig^ty
of the lords of Britain.
I hope,, mj lo^ds, same one amongjst us
W4»jld e^plam to hia majesty the decency
as well aa.tha iAtagcity of our. conduct, and
i|ifi)rm«him that we have hinted our dis«>
Qpntent in the most resoectful manaar;
and wbara thara was sufficient' room &w
tlie loadeat censura,. hasre. aatiafied our-
airi^iaa witk modest ailanca^ with a mere-
negation of applause.
Should we» my lovdsi. in opposition to
the complaints of our countrymen, to the
Ti^resentatioo^ of. our allies, and all the
OonvsiGtien which our reason, can admits. or
our sansea ppoduce> continue to act this.
£urce of approbation, what can hiamajfstv
ooaoaiv^ but that thoae meaaurea i^ch.
UFO applaud, oiigiht to he prosecuted aa the
moat efioctual and safe ^ Ayidwhat consa-
qjaenoa but total raiin can arise from the.
prosecution of measures hy which we are
shaadjr seducad la pcttiwy and ocmtempt?
The Earl of Ckolmondeler/ :
Mj lordai it ia aawes witl^a^t g|ri#f .ai^i
methods tranquillity may be re-ettabiisba
j and that he pursues the best m^tkodsvl
the utmost purity of intentioD, and t]
most incessant diligence and applicatioB
That the. justest intentions m^
sometimes defeated^ and the wisest ui$
KOurs< fail of success, I shall leadily gon
j hut it will not follow tiiat we ougk noli
acknowledge that wisdom and intsdj
which is oanerted in the prosecition tfti
intsrest, or that we ou^t not to,be goi
ful £dr the benefits which wece aoceii
' intended, though not actually receivai^
Xhe wisdom of hia majoaty's coomI
my lorda, ia not sufficiently aAftir^j
cause, the difficukiea which he has to|
counter are not known^ or not obsecvi
Upon his maji^sty, n^ lords, lieathaty
of teaching the powera of the coatinenU
^ prefer theu? real to ifaeir seeming intssi^
and to di®ard, ibr the sake of diiti
happiness,, immediate acquisitions aodei
tain advantages^ Hia mayssty is ends
vouring to. unite, in the support of |
Pragmatic Sanction those poweis wba
dominiona wiU be enlarged bytfiaviiil
tion of it, and whom France bribei tali
interest with the spoila of Anstna; ||
who can wonder that success, ia aotei
m attempts like this ?
In such measures we ought doubdeai
I endeavour to animate, his maje^t^^bf i
address, at least not less expressive ofdii
' and respect than those which he hsshe
{accustomed to receive; and therebrQ
'shall concur with. the. noble loidaa
\ made and supported the.qpotion.
i Then the Question being put for agn
iag to the Aadresa as- proposed bathes
of Malton, it passed in. the amrmstii
Content, 88* S^ Content,, 49.
The Lords^ Address of Thflnb.J %
Address was as follows :
** Most gracious severeign;
<< We yemr majesty's most dutiful I
loyal subjects, the Lords spiritualanitij
poral in parliament aasemblad, beg. Ill
to aeturn your majesty our humUa tbri
for your moat gracioua Speech &aBM
throne, and, at the same time, to prai
untayaac miy^§t^QiicaN»a^t^Bd*Jg|
M8] D^mtk^Cmmiom(m^AMrei$.qf Thanks, A. D. 1741.
tm
engntdMim on your safii.and iuippy
ntvn into this kngdmn. *
** The juM anil necenaiy war ih whieli
your mBJeity k eogaged against the crowii
0f Spain, is of such high importance to
dte titde and natigation of jour subjects,
«d to the weMwe of your kingdom, that it
if viib the atoioel thankAibeas we observe
the greit concern ^ioh your nutjest^ has
beeopkased to express for cmrying it on ;
which we hope, by the divine blessing upon
yoor oajesty'a arma, will be attend^ with
nocmsqual to the justice of your cause^
sad die ardent wishes of your people..
** Yoor BM^est^ has so truly represented
tk impeoding dangers to which Europe
s exposed^ in the present critical conjunc-
ture, 81 must awaken, in every one, an
atteotion suitaUe to ihe occasion : and
we csDootbat be fidly sensible of the evil
cao0sqiisaoes arianag from the designs and
aterfKues, ftrmed and carrring on for
Ik mbveisioii or reduction of the House
«f AoMria, wUch threaten such appar^t
■adae6 to the common cause.
** Id this situation it becomes us widi
hearts full of gratitude to your majesty, to
•dawaledge your royal goodness in ex-
pmbg so eamest a desire to receive,
tnd to hjg^ a regard for, the advice of
yair parhament : your majesty, secure of
t^ ^ralty and affections of your people,
nqr rd^ upon that, with the best ground*
edcosadeace; and we beg leave to asr
autjfoor maj^ty, that we will not fail to
tike tite important points, which you have
kea pleased to mention to us, into our
BMt serious consideration i mid, m ute
BMtdatifid aMfiner^ to oftr to your ma*
inty aich advice as shall appear to as
to bt lasst conducive to the nonour and
^ nUerest of your crown and kingdomlk
" We have a due sense how much the
Present posture of af&irs calls upon us, for
that (oanimity, visour, and dispatch,
vliichyoar majesty has so wisely recom-
tBended to us ; and we do most unfeiga*
^7 give your maiesty the strongest assur*
*u»» diat we will vicorously and heartily
cncorin a& just and necessary measures
^ the defence and* support of your ma*
EI the maintenance of the balance and
ties of J^urope^ and. the assistance of
mriDieB.
^ Asdatjagad affiectioAto your mi^esty
^ in OS, fixedjmd. unaUorable principles^
*^ ^ leel the iaapreasioBs of them» at this
l^sa sIroBf and hvaivin our breaata,
"ttwa oBsmol omit to my hotd on this
^PIM^rtoni^ of ^pproachbg your royal
presencoi to renew the most sinoere pro^
Sessions of our constant and tnvtol^lo
fidelity : and we do with a zeal and finh-
ness, never to be shidcen, promise youit
majesty, that we wiU, at the hazard of aH
that is dear to us, exert ourselves for the
defence and preservation of your sacred
person and government, and the mainte^
nance of the Protestant succession in your
roydl house, on which the continuance (f
the Protestant religion, and the liberties of
Great Britain, doth, under God, depend.*^
Tke King^s Answer*'] His mq'esty gavo
this Answer :
"My lords;
<< I heartily thank you for this veif
loval and dutiful Address^ The zecd
whidi you have declared for my defSenoa
and support, and for the maintenanda of
the liberties of Europe, and the assistance
of our allies, gives me great satisfaction.
You may deoend upon my constant i^ .
gard to the aavice ot my parliament, and
Diy steady adherence to the true interest
or my crown ahd kingdoms.'' '
Debate in the CoMmons on the Addreti
of Thanks.*^ i Decembers. The Speaker
having reportied the King's Speech,
Mr. Hemy Arthur Herbert\ rose and
said;
Sir; to address the throne Off « the pfet-
sent occasicm, h a custom, whidi^ as it ft
founded on reason and decency, has td^
ways been observed by the Commons ctf
Great Britain ; nor do I suspect this House
of any intention to omit those forms of
respect to his majesty, which our ances-
tors always paid even under princies whose
conduct gnu designs gave them no daim
to reverence or gratitude.
To continue therefore, Sir, a practice
which the nature of ^vemment itsetf
makes necessary, and which cannot but bb
acknowledged to be hi a peculiar degree
proper under a prince, whose personsl
virtues are so generally known, I nopefotr
tbe indulgence of this House in the'^Imerty
which I Man take of proposing an AddresB
to this efect :
** To return h» majesty the Hianks of
this House for his moist gracious Speech
from the dirone, and to- congratulate his
majesty upon his safe and happy return
* From the Gentleman's Magazine': coin*
piled irv Dr. Johnson. • ^ •
t AAerwardtBati of Powit,
[U3
«1]
15. GE0R6B IL
into this kSngdom ; to ezpiew our daUful
acknowledgmcintB to his majesty for his
royal care in the orosecution ot the war
against SpaiDy.ana his paternal concern
for the public welfare, in the present pe-
rilous and perplexed situation, and posture
of af&iLrs m feurope ; and to assure his
majesty, that as great variety of incidents,
of the greatest importance and conse-
quence, have happened during the course
of the last year, this House, with hearts
foil of duty,' and gratitude to his nujesty,
and touched with a iust sense of the im-
pending dangers, will, as ofben as these
momentous i&irs shall come under their
consideration, give his majesty such ad-
vice as becomes dutiful and faithful sub-
jects, and such support and assistance as
■hall be most conducive to the honour and
true interest of his majesty's crown and
kingdoms, and to the maintaining of the
balance and liberties of Europe ; and that,
in order to answer these great and neces-
sary purposes, this House will grant to
his majesty such effectual supplies, as shall
enable his majesty to be in a readiness to
support and assist his friends, and allies, at
sucn times, and in such maimer, as the
exigency, and circumstances of affiiirs
shall reauire ; and to defeat any attempts
that shall be made against his majesty, or
«|^nst those who, being equally engaged
with his majesty, by the faith of treaties,
or united by common interest, shall, irom
a just sense of the common and approach-
ing danger, be willing to concert such
measures as, in this critical conjuncture,
shall be found necessary and expedient."
Mr. Treowi
Sir ; as the necessity of an Address to
Jus majesty cannot be disputed, the only
ouestion on this occasion must be, whether
toe Address now proposed be such as it
may become this House to ofer in the
present conjuncture of afiaiis.
In an a&ress. Sir, it is necessary to
preserve at once the respect due to our
eovereign, and the dignity which may
•jMStlv'foe assumed by the represenutives
of the peoole of Great Britmn, a people
whose Dirtnri^ht gives them a daim to
approach their sovereign, not indeed
vnthout the utmost req>ect, but with lan-
guage, whidi absolute monarchs never
near from the slaves by whom they are
surrounded.
This respect «id digni^ appear to me
to be very happily united m the Address
now proposed, m whicb we join with our
IMatouilte
professiona of dutyr, oqr . offers of sdvioe^
and assert our claim to the direction of
the national expences by our promise to
gnmt the necessary Supplies.
As tliere cannot therefore in my opi*
nion. Sir, be any thing added to the Ad-
dress now offered, and there iqppears to
me no necessity of any alteration or omis-
sion, I 8^cond the motion*
Lord Nod Somerggt :*
Sir ; though I am far horn intending to
lessen, by trifling objections, the zeal
which the hon. gentleman who proposed
the Address has shewn for promoting the
public business, yet, as it is very incon-
sistent with the duty of a member of this
House to prefer civility to truth, and the
sacrifice to ceremony or complaisance to
interest of his country, I think it neces-
sary to declare my opinion, that though
tjie Address propoi^ may admit of many
amendments, which I lieave to other gen-
tlemen to make, I thiqk. the addition of
one Clause absolutely necessary; That his
majfest^ may be desired not to engage this
n^ition in a war for the pireservation of his
foreign dominions; dominions which, as
they are in themselves independent on the
crown of Great Britain, and governed by
different laws and a different right, have
been separated by an express^ ckuse from
these kingdoms, in the actf to which his
majesty owes his title to the throae.
This request. Sir, is at this time particu-
larly expedient when the continent is io
confusion, and the territories of Hanover
* ^< Lord Nx)el Somerset, sfterwarii doke
of Beaufort, since the death of sir WilKam
IVyDdbaro, whiob bad happened about twdn
OKMiths before, was considered as the risiog
head of the Tory interest. He was a maD of
sense, spirit, and activity, unblameable in bit
moralsi but questionable in his political capa-
city. Had Ife confined himself to a plaasibie
and a constitutional opposition, be would hare
been a very dangeroos opponent to the mi-
nister. But it was thought, not without some
appearance of reason, that bis views went ftr-
tber, and this disabled him from htiiaf of scr*
vice to any party who durst avow their prioa-
plea.'! tbdal.
t By the act 18 Will. 3, c. «. ' For the
< farther limitation of the crown, and the
< better securing the rigfaii and Uberliea of the
* subject,' it is enacted, " That in caie tb«
crown should oame to any peraoa, not boa^
a native of Eurlaad, this nation shall not m
ofali^ to war mdeffnce of domioiooSBOt ^'
longing to the crown of Bog^pd,"*
SBj
M ih Adireu of Thanh.
A. D. 1741.
[9M
ve endngenri bv the approach of the
French ibreet. Besidefl, as nothing is
more firtaT than groandless* expectations
of aniftaiioe, it may eontribate to tiie
afe^ of that people, to shew them diat
they are to depend upon their own
stmgth, to cdl their forces together, to
fortify their towns, and guard Uieir ave-
Doet; and that, if they sit indolent and
ordeis, in oonfidenoe that the power of
Great Britain will be emplov^ in their
defence, they wiD ocdy give Uieir enemies
an e«f conquest, and endave themselyes
i&d their posterity to a foreign power : I
more therobre that his miqesty be desired
m oor Address, ** not to engage these
imgdoms in a war for the preservation of
\k foreiga domimans>**
Mr. Shippen :
Sir; I know not with what success I
na^ snert, in tins House, positions, for
viudi I have formerly been censured,*.
ind whidi few other members have hi-
therto mamtained ; but I rise with confi-
AeDoe that 1 shall be at least acknow-
ledged to act consistently with myself in
ficoading the noble person who spoke
hat; and I am convinced, that many of
those who diffisr from me in opinion,
would ghdl^ be able to boast of resemb-
fing me in congruity of principles, and
tteadiQeai of conduct.
, But iteadinesa. Sir, is the effect only of
Bitegi^, and conffruity the consequence
ofooimction : he Siat speaks always what
he thinks, and endeavoun by diligent en*
^oiry to think aright before he ventures
fo deckle hb sentiments ; he that follows,
n hia aearches, no leader but reason, nor
Qpecta any reward from them but the
advantage of discovering truths and the
pleasure of communicating it, will not
eisly change his opinion, because it will
ttidom be ea^ to show that he who has
^'^'Qtttly enquired after truth, has failed
toittajnit.
2^ my part, I am not ashamed nor
^ to affirm, that thirty years have
«e no diange in ai^ m my political
optnioaa; I am now grown ora in this
noose, bpt that experience which is the
^^itK^Msnce of age» has only confirmed
^ principles with wliah I entered it
^7 yesra a^; time has verified the
Pvdict^ which I formerly uttered, upd
i^veieeD my conjectures ripened into
* Sea¥aLr,p.511.
I diouM be therefore without excuse if
either terror could affiright, or the hope
of advantage allure me from the dedara-
tion of my opinions ; opinions which I was '
not deterreo firom asserting, when the
prospect of a longer life than I can now
expect might have added to the tempta-
tions of ambition, or aggravated the ter«
rors ofpoverty and disi^noe; opinions fi»r
which 1 would willingly have suffered the
severest coisures, even when I had es-
poused them only in compliance with
reason, without the infiallible certain^ of
experience.
Of truth it has been alwajs observed.
Sir, that every da^ adds to its establish-
inent, and that ralshoods, bowever spe-
cious, however supported by power, or
established by confederacies, are unable
to stand before the stroke of time. Against
the inconveniencies and vexations of long
life, mav be set the pleasure of discover-
ing truth, perhaps the onl^ pleasure that
age affords. Nor is it a slight satisfiicUon-
to a man not utterly infiituated or de-
E raved, to find opportunities of rectifying
is notions, and regulating his conduct by
new lights.
But much greater is the happiness of
that man to whom every day brines a
new proof of the reasonableness of his
former determinations, and who finds, by
the most unerring test, that his life has
been spent in promotion of doctrines be-
neficial to mankind. This, Sir, is the
ha{ypiness which I now enjov, and for .
which those who never shall attain it,
must look for an equivalent in lucrative
employments, honorary titles, pompous
equipages, and s|dendia palaces.
These, Sir, are the advantages which
are to be gained by a seasonable variation
of principles, and by a ready compliance
witn the prevailing fiBhion of opmions;
advantages which I indeed cannot envy
when they are purchased at so high a price,
but of which age and observation has too
frequently shown me the unbounded in-
fluence ; and to which I cannot deny that
I have always ascribed the instability of
conduct, and inconsistency of assertions,
which I have discovered in many men,
whose abilities I have no reason to de-
preciate, and of whom I cannot but be-
lieve they would easily distinguish truth,
were not fiJshood recommended to them*
by the ornaments of wealth.
If theris are in this new House of Com-
mons any men devoted to their private in-
terest, any who prefer the gratification of
9K]
15 GEOBGB IL
Aek fumoM tp the'saAtj and happinMi
of t|xcir eountrjf wba can riol wltbout re-
mote in the pfuQder of their ooMlitiieBts,
who CUD forget the anguish of guilt in the
noise of a feast, the pomp of a dia#ing-
i«OQi» or the arms of ^ strumpet, and
think expensive widcedness and the gaie-
ties of folly equivalent to the &ir fiune of
fidelitv and the peace of virtue, to them
Ishalf speak to no purpose ; for 1 am fiir
from imagining any power in my laQ-
l^ge to gain wqse to truth who have re-
signed their hearts to avarice or ambition,
or to prevail upon meii to<Jiange opinions,
^fAdch they haVe indeed never beUeived,
though they are hired to assert them.
There is a degree of wickedness which
reprfK)f or argument cannot redaim, as
there is a degree of stupidity which in-
struction cannot enlighten.
If my country, Sir, has been so unfor-
tunate as once more to commit her inter-
est to those whd propose to themselves, no
ndvanta^e from their trust, but that of
selling It, I mav perhaps fsll once more^
under censure for declaring m]r opinion,
and be once more treated as a criinmal for
assertinff what thej who punish me cannot
deny; for roaintaming tne inccmsistency
of Hanoverian maxims with the happiness
of this nation, and fat preserving the cau-
tion which was so strongly inci^cated by
the patriots that drew up the Act of Set-
tlement, and gave^ the present royal fa-
aaily their title to the throne*
These men. Sir, whose wisdom cannot
1^ disputed, and whose zeal for his ma*
ksty's &milv was equal to their know-
ledge^ thought it requisite to provide some
security against the pr^udices of birth
afitd education. They, w^e fiur from ima-
«ning, . that they were calling to the
fiirone a race of beings exalted above the
£:ailties of humanity, or exempted by any
peculiar privileges from error or from ig-
norance.
They knew that every man was habi-
tually, if not naturally, fond of his own
nation, and that he was inclined to enrich
it and defend it at the expence of another,
even, nerhaps, of that to which he is in-
debtea for much higher degrees of great-
ness, wealth and power; for every thing
which makes one state of life preferable to
^mother; and which therefore, if reason
could prevail over prejudice, and eveiy
action were r^ulated by strict justice,
Biu;ht daim more regard than that comer
^the earth in ^hich he oidy happened to
lie bom*
They faew, Si^ that fafidmrr ms
not always relumed, that we moit wiU
liogly trust those wham we havehngat
known, and caroai these with mostliaDd.
ness, whose iadihasions we fiad by 6xpe>
riei^ to conaspond with our own, with-
out regard to particukur ciromniUnoci
whioh may entitle othora to graater r«-
oard, or %her degrees of oiedit, or d
kindn
Against these prejudiooa, wfaich Ihdr
sagadty enabled them to foicaee, their
integrity indted them to aeciiio us, bf
provisioos whidi every mao theD-thongkt
equitable and wise, became eo man wat
then hired to emouse a contteiy entnioiu
To obviate the disposition wtdA aib-
reign race of princes might have to trail
their original subjects, it was enacted,
That none of them should be eapsbie dt
any place of trust or profit ia these kii^-
doms*. And to hinder our monarchsfroa
transferring the revenues of Gnat Britais
to Hanover, and eniidiiDg it wi^ the
commerce of our tradees^ smd the Isboon
of our husbandmen; fromiaismg tszeito
augment the spleadear of a pettf court,
and encreasing the gamacns of tfadr
mouataina by misappmn|^ that nuHiej
which this nation shoiua nuse far its owa
defence, it was provkied, Hiat the hog
of Great Britain shouU netev return to
his native dominions^ but lesida dvsysis
this kingdom, without any other care tfam
that of fining the a&diona of his Bri-
tish sublets, preserving dieir njght^ snd
increasinff their power J*^ • .
. ItwasunaginedbythaSparfiamsBttbit
the electorate of Hanofirr a sobordiBate
dignity hdd by castom of hoM^ to »
greater power, ov^ht^ be thooghtbdoir
the regard <^the king of Great Sntain,
and that the sovereign of a nation lil^o
thb ought to remember a lower etsteoolf
to heighten his gratitaide to the people by
whom he was exalted. Thef ^i« ^
from imaginine that Grest mtaiii and
Hanover would in time be cansidered tf
of equal unportaace, and that their sore-
reign would divide his years between one
country and the other, and plesie lam-
self with exhtbitkig in Hanover the snspal
show of the pomp and dignity of a kiogf
of Great Britain.
♦ By the before cited Statute it w cnacterf,
" That no penum who shall hereafter come w
: the possession of tbie crown, shall go oot^^
;doflMMOBs ef Bajriami, Ses^iaBd, sr Wm
without coasant Of pariii
p
Of! ike Aidrm^ThMAs.
.|khcb»^ 8ir» ]iew«rer« • later ftr-
L^at riid^j repeabd;* upon whfti
' V I m not aUe le dedare, having
kiid the atgiupents wbieb pre*
I tlieir predeM«M>iB to mittcrt it,
oriDTaliaated; norhaine I Ibund
cvwt 1mm pfnodueed any jtistifi-
^j of their 6ondi»ct, or tbat Uie nation
i^tmmA mj renaarkable adTantage
'rejalexneditiona,
! it anotMT dmwa in that in^
[ Act whicb.pariiaioenfc has not yet
lto.rapeal» by.trbidi it ispco-
rllit. thia nation AaH not be «i*
Unr far the defisnce of tbe Hanoi*
miaioaa; domiaiona of which we
\ ne infteieat in the protection or
It doBuaicna perfauia of no
into whatever hanoa chance
aee auqr throw ihsm^ which
I faaa made entirely nteless to
pover ; bnt whioh^ tlioii{|;h they
mefit».may iiajan m^ by diyetting
cS oar tovereigny or witib*
^haafiaBtioiML.
diii danee, Sir^ haa not econe*
btcB afaided, wlKther the 6^000
I vhich we aimorted were of use
flf the Brilidi oomtnioms and whe-
idooUe nambcr of the laaie nation,
~ with our money for the delence
een of Hungary, haveaotbeen
odIt where my niu;ht deAnd
fj irittoat the least ammtage to
I, whether the nation haa
condemned to. double ezpeneea
»R^[M>rt of lliia afiianoey by raising
! queea'a service troops which were
S^ed m the protection of Han«-
thea in anccoaring her with pe*
I aq){d]cs» it is aerluips at present
^ I hope not yet too
l^lseo^are.
'i atjMfsent uaneeessary, because the
dcfa ia proposed cannot be denied
leqasi^ proper, whether Uie Act of
burnt has been hitherto observed .or
&r the vioiathKi of it oojg^t to
J OS in some measnres that may se-
lla for the fatore fromthe like injury;
I the obstnration of it is a manifest
Fbow touch it is approved by all par-*
^lince in so many deviations fVom this
t and an inconstaney of contact'
an example ia aearcely to be
.^j^thisJaw has been esteeaied sacrad^
p Waark of our rights, and the boon-
"p^^hidi the sovereign power has not
Itaoverleapr -
••JfceyoLt, 2,380. .
A. D. 174L [fK
As his inajea^ Sir, haa in a trery «^
lemn manaercaB^ upon us for our advioa
and assistaaee^ what can be more pvdpec
than to lay before him our opinion oo thia
important question i War is next ta
slaveiy ene .of the greatest calamities^ hnd
an umiecMary war therefore the ^reotasl
error of government, an error whicdi dstt*'
not be too cauttbasly obviated, or tea
speedily reformed*
If we cpndder^ Sir, the present stale ef
the contment, there is notning more pra<*
bable than that the subjects of the elector
ef Hanover may solicit the asabtanoeiof the
king of Great Britain, and therefore it ja .
necessary to infotei them,^th8t their boIh
citations will be vain. If we enquire, inia
the suspicions of our fdlow-subjecfs, wd
shidl fold them generally disturbed with
foam that they shall be sacrificed ta tiii
seemrtt;|r of foreign dominions, mid tfaeea* ~
fore it ia necessary to recal their affi»ctieil
to his msjttty where it is inqMored, and
confirm their confidence where it htm besit
hitherto preserved, by showing ia the moll
public manner, how vainly diey haTe bcwi
disquieted, and how gross^ they have been
mistaken. . . .•-
It is certainly our duty. Sir, to givesodi
advice as may most truly inform his md^
jes^ of the sentiments ef his peo(de,. and
asoet effcetually establish in the people an
adhcEenoe to his majesty; aa it la oertaJd
' that no advice will tie seconded by greater
aambers than that which is proposed, nor
can his midesty b^ any act dP goodness sd
much endear hia yuirerument, as by d
readf promise to this nation of an eaempi^
tion from any vrar iardefonoe of Hanot«ri
I hope. Sir, it will not be objected, timr
by sue& request a suapidon vnH be insi«
aoated of desicns detrimental to ibe 6ii«
tish nation, aod repugnant to the eondi*
tiona on which his majesty ascended' tfaa
throne, because an objecU<m. of equal
force may rise against any advice whatever
that shad be offi^ed by parIil^ne^t•
It maybe always ur^, Sir, that to re-
commend any meaaurea, is to suppose thai
they would not have been suggested to hia
mqeaty by his own wisdom, and by con-»
sequence that he ia defective eitner itf
knowledge or in goodness, that he eithei^
miatahes or neglects the interest of huf
people^
Thus, Sir, may (he most laudable cdiW
duct be dbsLVgci mitk sedition, fod thcf
most awfol reg^ be accused of disr^qpect,'
by forced consequence^ and esttgrnrated ^
language; thus may parliamentsDCcome^
15 GEORGE 11.
uMlesSy lest they diould i^mar to be wiser
than their sovereign, and tne sovereign be
condeqaned to act only by the information
of servile ministers^ because no public ad-
vice can safely be given him.
That kings must iact upon the informa-
tion of others, that ihey can see little with
their own eyes through the mists which
flattery is continuaUy employed in raising
before them, and that they are therefore
most happy who have, by the constitution
of the country which they govern, an op-
portunitjf of knowing the opinions of their
people without disguise, has yet never been
demed by any who do not separate the in^
terest of the king from that of the people,
and leave mankind no political distmction
but.that of tyrants and slaves.
. This, Sir, is the happiness of the king of
Great Britain beyond other monarchs, an
advantage by which he may be always en-
abled to contemplate the happy and flou-
rishing state of his subjects, and to receive
the blessings and acclamations of millions
that oive to his care their wealth and their
security.
Of this advantage he cannot be de-
prived, but by the cowardice or the trea«
chery of those men who are delegated by
the people, as the guardians of their liber-
ties ; and surely it requires no uncommon
penetration to discover, that no act of
treason can be equd in mali^ity to that
perfidy which deprives the kmg of the af-
fections of his subjects, by couching from
him their sentiments and petitions. He
that, makes his monarch hated, must un-
doubtedly make him unhappy; and he
that deistrdys his happiness/ might more
innocently take away his life.
., To exempt myself therefore from such
guilt, to discharge the trust conferred on
me by my country, and to perform the
duty which I owe to my king, I stand up
|o second this motion.
Mr. Gyhhon :
Sir; as it is not easy to remember all
the parts of an Address by only once hear-
ing It, and heanng it in a form diflerent
from that in which it is to be presented, I
think it necessary to a more accurate con-
sideration of it, that it should be read dis-
tinctly to the House. We may otherwise
waste our time in debates, to which' only
our own fbrgetfulness gives occasion ; we
may raise objections without reason, and
propose Amendmehts where there is no
defect. [The Address was accordingly
read^ and Mr. Gybbon proceeded*]
Debate in the Commons
[30
Having now heard the AddrsBi, I Sg
by experience die propriety of my
posal, having retnarkea aClaiKe,
m my opinion, is necessary to be aoi _
and which I had not observed when it
repeated before.
It is well known, that the speeches
.the throne, though pronounced by
king, are always considered as thecoi
sitions of the ministry, upon whom
Mae assertions would be diarged, ai
informers and counsellors of the crowsT
It is well known, likewise, that whens
this House returns thanks to the kbf i
any measures that have been pann
those measures are supposed to b^^
proved by them; and that approbn
may be pleaded by the minister in hk\
fence, whenever ne shall be reqoirel
answer for the event of his coonseli
It is therefore, in my opinion, extreol
unreasonable to propose, that ** tha
should be returned to his majesty fir
rojral caie in prosecuting the war agij
Spain ;'* for what has been the cot
quence of that care, for i^hidi our tlm
are to be with so much solemnity retonl
but defeats, disgrace and losses, the il
of our merchants, the imprisonment of I
sailors, idle shows of armaments, andil
less expences ? ^
What are the events which ore to bel
corded in an impartial account of tfaiftn
a war provoked by so long a trwn of inn
and injuries, and carried on with so appsn
an inequality of forces? Havewedertrq
the fleets or our enemies, fired their tra
and laid their fortresses in ruins ? Hi
we conquered their colonies, and pluoda
tlieir cities, and reduced them to a neofl
sity of receding from their unjust dain
and repaying the plunder or our du
chants? Are their ambassadors now. ai
citing peace at the court of Great Brital
or applying to the neighbouring priooer]
moderate the resentment of meir vicfl
rious enemies ?
I am afraid that the efiects of our pii
parations, however formidable, are ni
different; they have only raised discontti
among our countrymen, and contei|
among our enemies. We have shown dt
we are strong indeed, but that our foroB
made ineflfectual by our cowardice; .4
when we threaten most loudly, we pei
nothing ; that we draw our swords bol.
brandish them, and only wait an
nity to sheath them in such a manner,
not plainly to confess that we dare^r
strike.
m
^ At Aditemi^ Thanks.
A* a mi.
iVJH,
If we ooaader, therefore, what efcct
oar thanb for conduct like this must na-
tortUy prodocOt it will appear that they
m only encoonge our enemies, and di&*
ipt oar fellow-subjects. It will be ima-
ped that the Spaniards are a powerful
pitioD, which it was the highest aegree of
(ooefity to attack ; a nation by whom it is
bocour sufficient not to be overcome, and
ho whom we cannot be defended without
the most vigilani caution, and the most
ntensife knowledge both of politics and
nr.
it win readily be perceived by the
prood Spaniards, tliat it is only necessary
to pmcate their wiews a little longer,
to ifltmiidste us with new demands, and
am jse us with new preparations ; and that
ve, who are always satisfied with our suc-
cess, shdl soon he weary of a war, from
«hicb it is plain that we never expeeted
ttj adraDtaj^ and therefore shall in a
iliort time willingly receive such terms as
oar conquerors wiU grai)t us.
It is always to be remembered how much
iB bomaa affitirs depend upon opinion,
hor often repotation supplies the want of
ml power, by making those afraid who
cannot be hurt, and by producing confi-
^ce where there is no superiority. The
opimon of which the parliament ought to
odeavoar the promotion, is confidence in
tlielr steadiness, honesty, and wisdom;
ccnfideoce which will not be much ad-
vanced by an address of thanks for the
unduct of the war against Spain.
How justly may it be asked, when this
A<]<iress is spread over the world, what
vcre the views with which the parliament
«f Great Britain petitioned tlieir sovereign
^ declare war against Spain !
If their design was, as they then as-
s^ied, to procure security for the com-
^^ of America, and reparation for the
iBJimes which their merchants had re-
Ci:ived, by what fluctuation of counsels,
^ vhat prevalence of new opinions, have
^y now abandoned it ? For that they
^^e no longer the same intentions, that
ti^ now no more either propose security,
^ aemand recompence, is evident ; since,
u*OQgh they have obtained neither, yet
^ they thankful for the conduct of the
To what can this apparent instability be
■^ted, hut to the want either of wisdom
'f^alance their own power with that of
^ enemies, and discern the true in-
i«et of their country, or to a mean com-
puaoce with the clamours of the peopl^^ to
whom they durst not refuse the appear*
ance (^ a war, though they had no expee-i
tation of honour or success ?
But in far other terms. Sir, will the
Spaniards speak' of the Address which ia
now pr<qpo8ed. «^ Behdd," say our boasts
ing enemies, ^' the spirit and wisdom of
that assembly) whose counsels hol4 the
continent in.suspense, and whose determi*
nations change the fate of kingdoms ;
whose vote transfers sovereignty, covers
the ocean with fleets, prescribes the opera-
tion of distant wars, and fixes the bahmce
of the world : behold them amused with
idle preparations, levying money for
mockeries of war, and returning thanks
for the pleasure of the show : behold them
looking with wonderful tranquillity on tho
loss of a great number of their ships,
which haye been seized upon their own
coasts by our privateers, and congratulate
ing themselves and their monarch, that
any have been preserved. How great
would have been the exultation, and how^
loud the applauses, had thev succeeded in
any of their designs ; had they obstructed
the departure of our fleets, or hindered
our descent upon the dominions of the
queen of Hungary ; had they confined .our
privateers in our harbours, defeated any
of our troops, or over-run any of our colo-
nies \ In what terms would they have ex-
pressed their eratitude for victory, who
are thus thankiul for disappointments and
disgrace ?"
Such, Sir, must be the remarks of our
enemies upon an Address like that which
is now proposed ; remarks which we and
our allies must be condemned to hear»
withoi^t attempting a reply. For what
can be urged to extenuate the ridicule of
returning thanks wher^ we Oiyght either to
express resentment, offer consolations and
propose the means of better success, or
cover our grief and shame with perpetual
silence ?
When it shall be told in foreign natipiM,
that the parliament of Great Britain had
returned thanks for the escape of the
Spaniards from ^errol, their uninterrupted
expedition to Italy, the embarrassment of
their own trade, the captivity of their
sailors, and the destruction of their troops,
what can they conclude, but that the par**
liament of Great Britain is a collection of
madmen, whom madmen have deputed to
transact the public a&irs I And wnat must
be the influence of such a people, and audi
a parliament, will be easily conceived*
If I have given .way» Sifi ia thes^ Qbser*
308]
15 GEORG^n.
Diffafe in til* CsMiwNk
[30
vatloii0» to any wanton hypeibolei or eic*
aggeratedflMortioiiiy they will, I hope, ba
pardoned by dioie who riiall reflect upon
the real absurdity of the propoed whidi I
am endeavouring to show in ita true state,
and by M who uiall consideri timt to re-
turn thanks for the management of the
war, is to return thanks %t the eamage of
Cartliaffena, for the ruin of our merchants,
for theloss of our reputation, and for the
ezaltatien of the House of Boiubon.
I hope no man will be so unjust, or can
be so Ignorant, as to insinuate or believe,
that I impute any oart of our miscar*
riages to the personal eonduct of his ma-
jesty, or that I think his msjesty's concern
lor the prosperity of his people unwor-
thy of the warmest and smcerest grati-
lode* If the Address were confined to the
inspection of onr sovereign alone, I should
be very far from censuring or ridiculing
it ; for his majesty has not the event of
war in his power, nor can confer upon his
ministers or generals that knowledge whidi
they have aeelected to acquire, or that
'capacity whicti nature has denied them.
He may perform more than we have a
right to expect, and yet be unsuccessfol ;
he may deserve the utmost sratitude, even
when, by the misconduct, of his servants,
the nation b distressed.
' But, Sir, in drawing up an Address, we
should remember that we are declaring
our sentiments not only to his majesty, but
to all Europe ; to put allies, our enemies,
and oiir posterity ; that this Address will
be understood lii» all others; that thanks
offered in this manner by custom, sigmfy
^yprobation ; and that therefore we must
at present repress our gratitude, because
k can only \mng into contempt our sove*
tvign and ouisehres.
Sir Robert fValpoU :
Sir; I am very far from thinking that
the war against Spain has been so unsuc-
cessfol as some gentlemen have represented
it ; that the losses which we have suffered
have been more frequent than we had
reason to expect from the situation of our
enemies, ana the course of our trade; or
our defeats, such as the common chance
df war does not often produce, even when
the inequality of the contending powera is
incbntesti^lei and the idtimate evMit as
near to certainty, as the nature of human
aHili'u-ever can admit
19or «m I conivinced, Sir, even diough it
shouM be Slewed Aai no exaggeration
hadbteeft madaol our tame$tmgtB, that
Hie impropriety of an address of tliankEt
hia majesty, for hia regal caie in ti^e n^
nagement of the war, » gross or flagrai^
For if k be aUowed that Ms mi^tj nia
be innocent of alt Um miscoadnct that hi
nroduced oup defeats, that he may ha^
tbmed schemes wlseh^, ii4iieh were uii
skilfully prosecuted; tfiat even valoar a^
knowledge conemrring, will not alwap oC
tain success; and that therefore som
losses may be suffered, and some defesi
reeehred, though not evdy his majesty ga^
the wisest direction, but his officers ex^
cuted them with the utmost diligence an
fidelity ; how will it appear fkan em> i
success, that our sovereq^does notdes&>
our gratitude ? And if it shall appeu- i
us that our thanks are merited, who shd
restrain us from oflbring them in tfie mo!
public and sdemn manner f
For my pari, I think no consideratio
wofthy of regard in competition with tni^
and justiee ; and therefore shall never foi
bear any expression of duty to my sot<
reign, for fear of the ridicule of our secre
or the reproaches of our puUic enenHes.
With regard to the Address nnder oii
consideration, if it be aBowed either tbi
we have not been unsuccessfol in any o;
probrious degree, or that 01 success doe
not neeessarfly imply any defect in th
conduct of his majesty, or debar us froti
the rij^t of acknowledging hia goodnes
and his wisdom, I think. Sir, no ^jectio
can be made to the form of expresaio
now proposed, in which all soundmg an
pomfMMis langui^, all declamatory esac
geration and studied figures of speech, a
appearance of exultation, and all the fort
of rhetoric, are carefolly avoided, and nc
thing in8erte4 that may disgust the m<n
delicate, or rane scruples in the moj
sincere*
Yet, Sir, that we may not waste ov
lame upon trivial disputes^ when the natio
expects r^ef fi-om our counsds, that k
may not suspend the prosecution of tli
war by complaints of past defeats, or n
tard that assistance axnl adrice which o\:
aower&m demands, by enquiring whetin
it may be more proper to thank or to coui
sel him, I am willing, for the sake of uni
mmity, that tliiaClause should be omitted
and hope that no other part o^f the Ac
draas can give any opportunity for mt
^ — ^^ or for objectmns*
MuPuUenejff
Sir ; it is no wonder that the r^t hoi
geodaouA wiBingly oonseiilB to the oeas
505]
omikAAddnu^ Thanks.
A. Dk n^u
[906
^ of thit^MMv wUcboouid be ioseited
lor Dootb^r porpoie than tbat be migbt
Mcrifice it to tiie reaenlnient wbkfa it
most mUuiiUy produce ; and by an ap*
pearaace of modesty and compliMice, pass
eauiy throtigh tbe first day, and obviate
^j cereie enqoiriea tbat migbt be de-
ligoed.
He is too well acquainted witb the opi-
nioQ of many wbpm the nation .has chosen
torepretent tbem^ and with tbe universal
cJaoioun of the people, too accurately m-
formed of tbe state of our enemies, and
too omcious bow much bis secret macbi-
Datioos have hindered, our success, to ex-
pect or hope tbat we should meet here to
rctum thanks for tbe roanasement of the
var ; of a war in which npUiing has been
attonptedby bis direction that was likely
to succeed, and in which no advantage has
bees gamed, but by acting without orders,
aod against bis hopes.
Hat I do not cnarge him. Sir, without
leasQDy or invent accusations onJy to ob-
itnict his measMrea, or to gratify my own
resentmeot ; that I do not eagerly catch
fljiog calumniea, probng tbe cuUe of ca-
»tl reproaches, encoiirage the malignity
of the envious, or adopt tbe suspicions of
tbe mdaocboly; that I do not impose
opoamyseifby a warm imagination, and
ttMiearour to communicate to others im-
pnaions which I have only received my-
telf from prejudice and malignity, will be
proved from the review or his conduct
<i&ce the be^nning. of our dispute with
^puQ, m which it will be found that he
has been guilty not of single errors, but
^ deliberate treachery; that be has al-
^yi co-operated witb our enemies, and
■^crificed to bis private interest the bap-
pa^ and tbe honour of the British
How long^ our merchants were plun-
dered, oar nilo>rs enslaved, and our colo-
oietindmidated, without resentment; how
^the Spaniards usurped the dominion
ofthe eeas, searched our ships at plea-
Are, confiscated the caigoes without con-
^ and tortured our fellow-subjecte
J^imounity, cannot but be remem-
J^ Not only every gentleman in this
Houie, but every man in the nation, how-
J»er indolent, ignorant, or obscure, can
«* vbat barbarities were exercised, what
'^'^ were committed, what complainU
fere oaje, and bow they were received.
^ tt unhrersally known that this gentle-
"%»nd those whom be has seduced by
Y^«^ and employments, treated the la-
l^OUXIl.] '
mentatiooa of ruined families, and tbe
outeries of tortured Britons, as the cla-
mours of sedition, and tbe murmurs of
malignity suborned to inflame tbe people,
and embarrass the government.
It is known. Sir, that our losses were at
one time ridiculed as below the consi-
deration of the legislature, and the dis-
tress of the most useful and honest pair^
of mankind was made the subject of mer-
riment and laiighter ; the awkward wit of
all the Jiirelii^gs of the town was exerted
to divert the attention of the public, and
all their art was employed to introduce
other subjects into conversation, or to
still the complaints which they bemrd witb
a timely jest.
But their wit was not more successful
on this, than on other occasions; their
imaginations w^re. aoon exhausted, and
diey found, as at other times, that they
must have recourse to new expedients.
The first artifice of shallow courtiers is to
elude witb promises thcise complaints
which they cannot confute, a practice
that requires no understanding or know-
ledge, and therefore has been generally
followed by tbe administration. This arti-
fice thev quickly made use of, when they
found that neither tbe merchants nor the
nation were to be silenced by an affipcta^
tion of negligence, or the salhes of mirth ;
that it was no longer safe to jest upon the
miseries of their countrymen, the destruc-
tion (^our trade, and Uie violation of our
rights: they condescended therefore to
some appearances of compassion, and pro-
mised to exert all their mfluence to pro-
cure redress and security. «
That they migbt not appear. Sir, to
have made tnis promise only to free them-
selves from present importunity, they set
negociatiens on foot, oispatched memo-
riaL, remonstrances, propositions, and
computations ; and with an air of gravity
and importance, assembled at proper
times to peruse tbe mtelUgence which they
received, and to concert new instructions
for their agents-
While tnis farce waa acted. She, innu-
merable artifices were made use of to re-
concile tbe nation to suspense and delay.
Sometimes the distance ofthe Spanish-do-
minions in America retarded the decisioa
of our claims. Sometimes the diktory
disposition of the Spaniards, and tbe es-
tablished methods of their courts,, made it
impossible to procure a more speedy do*
termination. Sometimes orders were dis-
patohed to America in favour of oar tni3e»
907]
Mi^iOAGAlL
flihih ft Hi fbOiiwrt
P«
Ai^ ^l!W{iiBtMft6B icMMlo otderi WCHi AW*
l^ted by the oiptaiiit of the fl|iitaiili
Aii{S9, nwl the goven^en of their pro-
tlnces) and When it was enquired wfaj
those captains and governors were not
punished or recalled, we were treated with
contempt for not btowt&g what had been
so lately told us of the dil^ory proceedings
6f the Spatnish courts.
In the mean time our tnerchants were
S hindered, and our sailors thrown into
ungeons ; bur flag was insulted, and our
AavigatioD restrained, by men acting under
the commission of the king of Spam ; we
berceiyed no eflfect of our n^goeiations
out the expence, and our enen^es not
only insisted on their former didms, but
prosecuted them with the utmoM rigour,
insolence, ^nd cruelty.
It must indeed. Sir, be urged in fiiyour
of our minister, that he did not refiiie
any act of submission, or omit ainy method
6f supplication, by which he mieht hope to
loften the Spaniards ; he solRnted ibeir
ftyour at their own court, he sent coni-
missaries into their country ; he assisted
them in taking possessicm of dominions, to
which neither we nor ihey have proved a
right; and he employed tfie na^es of Great
Britain to transport into Itriy the prince
on whom the new erected Kingdom was
to be conferred.
Wen might he expect that the Sp&^
niards would be softened by so much
kindness and forbearance, and that grati-
tude would at length induce them to spare
those whom no injuries or contempt had
been able to alienate from them, and to
allow those a free course through the Ame-
rican seas, to whom they had been indebted
for an uninterrupted passage to the pos-
session of a kingciom.
He miglit likewise urge. Sir, that when
he was obliged to make war upon them,
he was so tender of their interest, that the
British admiral was sent out with orders
rather to destroy his own fleet than liie
galleons, which in appearance he was sent
to take, and to perish by the inclemency
of the climate, rather than enter the Spa-
tuah ports, terrify their colonies, or plun-
der t^eir towns.
But to little purpose. Sir, did our minis-
ter implore the compassion of the Spanish
court, and represent the benefits by which
we might claim it ; for his compliance was
by the subtle Spaniards attributed not to
kindness, but to fear; and it was therefore
determined to reduce him to absolute
aki^erv, by the same practices which had
already sunk him to so abject a state.
They
MMnosa wflh ikJSileAipti ooiittuiln tMsr .
inseieMe liad flMSA" opiMBsioiis, ttd whie
ottr aritat was erh^piig at their eoint wift
flesh iMrodtioaam his hand, while he was i
hurry ing wfdi boay looks from one grandee
to another, and pefh^ps dismisied whhout
an audience one day, and sent back in the I
mABi of hii hfcfangue on anotiher, the \
guard-ahipe of tbe Spaniaids cootinttedi
then* havoc, our neraianta were miiied,
and our sailors ioilQfild.
At lengUi^ Sir, the natkm was top modi
inflamed to be afty kitter amoaed with
Mt negodittiofli, dr trrnqs expedients;
the streets echoed wiA the <Iunoiirs of the
pdpulace, and this House waa crowded :
with petitions fr6m the merdihnts. Tht
honourable perion. With all his art^ ftemd
hlmselTifttfble Wy longer to dude a de*
termuMillon df Um aflsSr. l^oie whoa
he had hitheito pemaded that be had |
Med mei^ely ftr Want of diSitieB, began i
ikMf to auipect tnit he bed no ooftife of
beCter success; imdtheaewhohadlnlhMo!
ehffet^y merited their tentSUUm by an
unshaken adherence tO au hfa meaiores,
wtio had extolled hisWisdoita ittihis in-l
titgiiij with iffl th^ confidenee oraccuiityi |
b^iin now to be^hiAfetk by the KtenretsaD^ j
of the cenautea which the open an^ppoft et j
perndy brought ttj^on Ihem* iney weft i
flfiraidany longer to insert Whsfttiia^ no-
fher behered themselves, tier could per*
suade dthers to adn^ Tbe moat mdo-
lent Were sHantaM, tne'tnost ebstij^nte cen* ;
tinced, and the fndst profligate aAamed.
What eouM Aoir ihe done. Sir, to gahi s
few mootfaa, to secure li short mterral of
quiet hi which his agents mq;ht be eiB-
ploved to disteminate some ^ew flddiood,
oribe to Ifls paiT^ some new rindieators, or
lull the people with the opiate of anodier
expedient, with an account of concessions
utotB Uie cotnt of S^iain, or a congress to
compute dke losses, and adjust the dntoitt
ofourmerdiants?
Something iha necessarily to be at-
tempted, and orders were ^erefbre db-
patdied by our minister, to hissla?e at tbe
court of qpain, to procure some stipda-
tions that might have, at least, die appear-
ance of a stq> towards the condusion of
the debate* His asent obeyed him wiQi
liis usual alaerity and address, and in time
sent him, for the satbfaction of the BH£hli
people, the celebrated Convention.
The Convention, Sir, has been so btehr
discussed, is so jndrticularfy remeodierea,
and BO nniTeitaDy cikndeiamed, that 4
m
4. D. IMI.
fWt
Mt if OlM Soiaiii, (btj twk fi«p
firlNdi flw fomr of wnjog Omp
irfctwIwiiiiMif iWb tli«7 WW*
1!
aiUk»« mjmtifiiibh fnta^Uty tf
el tewjgilte «feii it. Thefe w<i»»
llplf « ii«M IB tjup^ «li0 4iA aoi f0ft W
MiHMMflf wfliEiiiff liirflHtriliiMii ^J^*-**
l|0 Soulh-SeA Coinpan7, «idA the. eaa<-
ipiptiwfii in0tlaDQ« «f ^nmiinff us with
fctt»»wrrf>ttya>tio%vhichwolo
gtfMiiM «f it, fty 9»j|iig frkilW9f|M
tl^GiPWilioii |lMrar<if9» Sir, ww cp
il Mliii, m4 tflflk ft«i <rar fvini^tar
AlKWtf of actb^ any iMff 9pp»ly ill
|l ppfcucJi ml lliar vipdom wm ofiw-
mmnA bf diair prid^* ii&d ttat» for tbe
S^4««tee» m whiA they heU
1h^ tenMb «i4 »o| Mfiwnay dif-
«aUi beiMMi Oie BitioA ond the w-
My tf GrM BriftUD» nor tiKiMcted that
^imme^bh iiirlhwiioa^ «nd epiniotia,
Ml diiiPt^ moiiits o»d tkil Ihope
SiMrr MMMf Aand^ wd rercitooid
|Fl>*ywifty> WM'hy ihrptKipte hMd,
^>whw»g ^mr aiHMilry, thwr we>My
iwprithiir they had wwyted^^
4to» MV yoihwu Sir^ wiNdA tii^ m^
J«i daomoed Aair niatake, Mi thay
mA Ihnr vietevy wilk greater modera^
4m ^nadapoagrted *a gmrem thak aaar
pvinoe with kaa ngoar» and leat «b lava
IKl^fthaif fern ibao that of «ha€<m«
> liittiiafleceri^wlodb aveoaai exofteB,
Mhicad ia them A^ aaoie «(fe^ aa it
in «ftea dene in ethecB, eod deHreyed in
mm^d^gm Ae edsnefegQi of the jCOb*
fMbf which ilweaioifired. The lait
Mf at their nfiwteaiprof eur aovera%n
Wiaar nalioey waatfio fla^Mt to be |iel-
iMad, and too pablic not t^ be rateniad.
1h eriM flf the eatioa weiw radeabled,
i»MKdtatioa»of the nerahMita leoemd,
•idwoidityof oar pail eondaet ei|^eaad»
m ■>tnDf of ear laihaiMace reareaeb-'
%$uktm aaiyiafp eC laera ngonwi
<Nhbi» eijdently fiored'*
nD£eieads af %iun diaeoreied, Sir, at
w^ jht wat w^p nare«ai^tlo heigp^
€jb|i«ia4f and that it would l^e.no longer
their interest to act in ope^ opnoMtion tf
jii$ti<ie x«id vaiiien, to the nd^cv of aV
ef^ and retfionalninoeii of the whole n^
The ninistny therefore, a|Ur long ^
\m^ afti^ havHig run iround the cir^O ^
all hie artificM^ and endeavovr^ to inti-
midate the aation by &he repres^ntatioae
of the pow^ ef our enemiep, and the dai^
gar ef tti ioraatmi from them, at length
au&red war to be piodanned, though n#
till ^e had taken all precantimis that might
disttipoint ua of anccesg.
Helmewtlh^ttlieatate of the SpeoM^
doijunSona ezpeaad them in a particuleir
appmner to auode^ pci^^iona by aqafdl pav-
tic(|^ aiid tl^ in former wars againet tlmi,
our chi^ advantage had been gained by
the InMnem end tubtility of private adfw*
toreia, ifr'bo by hovefing over their q^ml^
m mall ▼emels, without raising the alaraei
whidi ithe sight of a rtyal nary npcenariJ^
prpdu/M, lu^ diicoyered opporiquitief of
Ifpdtog unexpectedly» and entering tbeir
\ftwm by surprise, 0/ plonderiiig th^
wealthy ahina* pr coricbiog themsdvef by
(9080B9S and oompo|itioQS ; he Ipoew wwL
i^coDsid^^e bodies of men, ineited by
private advauMe, selected with ««re fiK
pertipular e9cpe$tion#, instructed by secret
HitelM|ence, and Qostoaaled by the iweB*
wm ce their lumbers, hpd foimd meeof 10
mmh up ii^to the cowtnr Arougfo ways
which would never have been aMmptfld
by regulsr foroaa» a|id have teroiight tipoo
the Spaniards more terror aad distiiee
(ban could have been produced by a powsf-
Ad army, however ciffefol} v disoipuoed, or
bowcfver sUlAiUy comnianded.
It was thei^fi^re, Sir, bie first cere |o
aecure hjs darliog Siwniards from the per-
nicieus designs of private advaotursrvf he
knew Mt bel; some of quee» £liMi>eAf i
heroes might unfortunatelv revive, apd
teirify wiMi an unexpecMd invesim the
iwmt04t copiers <^ the 9pa}u9h eo)Qiii«^,
or eppo^b^^ tili^JH»rt| wi^h h^ nim-
ble aloopai and bid demmce to t}Mubr fism*
aa4 their garnpei^ WheP9 therefiire a
Bin was introduced into thif • Hpuee,* by
whicji encouragement was given to ibe
jaal4s0to of thif kingdpa^ to St oat pm»-
teen, fmd bv which those w^ show0en-
40ec eay or the colonies of Spaie, w^rte *
• ABill ' For the room efleetiud
aad etMoarsgiiigthe trade of his MieeSty^s
jaota4a Aassrios,* braaght in by Mr. Faksnsy.
8aavsiL10,p.B|^* .
911]
15 6E0RGB n.
IMaitinUeComm&iu
^oonfirniiBd in the poisettion of them for
«ver» it eaimdt be forgotten with what
tM he opposed, and with what Meadi-
nets he rejected it, though it is not pos-
sible to assign any disadvantage wnidb
could ^bate been produced by passing it,
^nd the utmost that could be urged agunst
it was, that it was unnecessary and useless.
' Havinff thus discouraged that method
of war which was most to be dreaded by
our enemies, and left them little to fear
but from national forces and public prepa-
rations, his next care was to secure them
from any destructive blow, by giving them
time to equip their fleets, collect their
forces, repair their fortifications, garrison
their towns, and regulate their trade ; for
this purpose he delayed, as long as it was
possible, the dispatch of our navies, em-
'Oarrassed our levies of sailors by the vio-
lence of impresses, violence which proper
encouragement and regulations might have
made unnecessary, and suffered the priva-
teers of the enemy to plunder our mer-
chants without controul, under pretence
4hat ships of war could not be stationed,
nor convoys provided for their protection.
• At length ' several fleets were fitted out,
' yemon was sent to America, and Haddock
into the Mediterranean,' wiUi what conse-
quences it is well known, nor should I
mention them at this time, had I not been
awakened to the remembrance of them
by a proposal oi thanks for the conduct of
^e war/
The behaviour of ^e two admirals was
very diflerent ; though it has not yet ap-
peared but that their orders were the
same. Vernon with six ships destroyed
those fortifications, before which Hosier
formeriy perished in obedience to the
'commands of our ministry. How this
success was received by the ipinister and
his adherents, how much they were of-
fended at the exultations of the populace,
' how etidently they appeared to consider
it as a breach of their scheme, and a devia-
tion from Uieir dh^ctions, the whole nation
can relate.
' .. ^®' *« *' ^ ^ forgotten. Sir, how invi-
diously the minister nimsdf endeavoured
to extenuate Uie honour of that action, by
attempting to procure in the Address,
winch was on diat occasion presented to
^ his mijesiy, a suppression of Uie number
Af the ships with which he performed it*
In the mean time, Sir, the nation ex-
pected accounts of the same kind firai
[S12
* See VeL ll^p. 57»^
Ae Mediterranean, where Hiddock wsa
stattooed with a very considersible force ;
but Instead of relations of ports bsnbatded,
and towns plundered, of navies destroved,
and villages laid in ashes, we were daily
informed of the losses of oar haerchanlB,
whose ships were taken almost within sight
of our squadrons. «
We had indeed, once the satisfiurdon of
hearing that the fleet of Spain was con-
fined in the port of Cadiz, unprovidcsd with
provisions, and it was lasldy morted that
means would either be found or destroying
them in the haibonr, or that they would
be shut up in that unfruitful part of the
countiTt tiU they should be obbged to dis-
band their crews.
We dierefore, Shr, bore with patience
the daily havock of our trade, in expecta-
tion of the entire destruction of the royal
navv of l^pain, which would reduce tfaem
to despair of redstance, and compd them
to implore peace. But while we were
flattermg ourselves with those {^easing
dreams, we were awrifcened on a sodden
with an astonishinff account that the Spa-
niards had left Cadiz, and, without any in-
terruption firom the British fleet, were
taking in provisions at Ferret.
This disappointment of our expectations
did indeed discourage us, but not deprive |
lis of hope; we knew that the most p<rfitic i
are sometimes deceived, and that tbe most i
vigilant may sometimes relax their atten-
tion ; we did not expect in our coitiniander&
any exemption from hnman errors, and
required only^ that they should endeavour
to repair their iailores, and correct their
mistakes; and therefore waited without
clamour, in expectation that vrhat was
omitted at Cadiz would be peribruied at
Ferrol.
But no sooner. Sir, had the Spaniards
stored their fleet, than we were sorprved
with a revi^tion of affiurs yet more won-
derfiri. Haddock, instead of remainiw
before Ferrol, was drawn off by aome chi-
merical alarm to protect MinoreBy«Dd the
Spaniards in the mean time sailed away to
America, in conjunction vdth die French
squadron that had been for some tinie ready
for die voyage.
If we consider theabsurdih^ of this eon-
duct, it cannot hot be imagined that our
minister must send Haddock fidae intdli-
gence and treacherous directiona on pur-
pose that ^die Spanish fleet m^ht eacne
widiout intermptien. For how can it be
conceived that tibe Spaniard^ could have
fonned any Md design of beai^gii^ Port
3B]
^ike AidreuofThmJeu
A. D. mi.
[SM
)&Ih»? Wm it pnbiUe that tb^ wpuld
\ase sentaa amy in defenceless trans-
poits»mto the^jawB of the British fleet?
nd it was weU knovrn that thev had no
ships of war to protect them* It was not
vWy agreedrie to common [lolicy to land
an amj upon an island, an island wholly
destitute <n picmsions for their support,
utile an horak navy was in possession of
ibecea, by which tl»e fortress which their
iroops were deatmed to besiege might be
daily so^ipiied with necessaries^ a^ the
garnioa augmented wfth. new forced, while
tibeir anny woqld be itself besieged in a
bszren island, without provistonm without
reaiiits» widmut hope of succour or pos-
cibilitjofsttGoeaa.
Botsoch was theaolicitnde of our admiral
lor the preservation of Minorca, that he
^Modoned^hia atation, and suffered the
Spaaiuds to join th^ confederates of
Ffance, and pivisecute their voya^ to
Amenca without hindrance or pursuit.
In America they- remained for some
time masters of the aeayand confined. Ver-
non to the porta; but want of provirions
obligii^ the French to retur% no inya-
aoD of oar colonies waa attemptedj nor
aojr of those destructiFe measures pursued
vucb we had reason to fear, and of which
Off oiaiBter, notwithstanding his wonderful
sagicity, could not have foretold that they
««ild have been defeated by an unex-
pected flcaraty of victuala.
Tlie Spaaiarda, however, gamed by this
txpedient time to repairtheir fortifications,
strengthen their garrisons, and dispose
ti^ forcb in the most advantageous
mnncr; and therefore, though they were
uteasUad to attack our dominions, had
< IsMt an opportunity of securing their
own.
At lewth, Shr, lest it should be indispu-
ttUj evident that our mmister waa in con-
wacy with the Spaniards, it waa dcter-
BBMd, that their American territoriea
c^oold be invaded; but care waa taken to
^ioppeiat the anoceaa of the expedition
^JciBfloying new laiaed tfoopa, and effi-
coswithoot experience, and to make it
wtkoBsome to the nation by a double
Boober of officers, of which no uae could
be diioovcred, but that of encreaaing the
i^^oeaee, and multiplying the depemumta,
MthemiQistry*
it van not thought auffident. Sir, to fe-
Toorthe desians of ^e Spaniards by the
«y which the levrj^f new troopa neces-
wy psodnced» aniio encourage them by
veprobahility rfaaeaaj^r^aiataiice againat
raw forceaVnor waa the nation, in the
opinion of the minister, punished for ita
rebellion against him with adequate se-
verity, by being condemned to support a
double number of troops. Some oUier
methods were to be used for embarrassing
oui: preparations and protracting the war.
The troops, therefore, Sir, being by the
accident or a hard winter more speedily
raised than it was. reasonable to expect,
were detained in this island for several
months, upon trivial pretences ; and wercri
at len^ sufifered to embark at a time
when It was well known that they would
have much more formidable enemies than
the Spaniards to encounter ; when the un-
healthy season of the American climate
must necessarily destroy them by thou-
sands; when the air itself was poison, and
to be wounded certainly death.
Hiese were the hardlships to which part
of our fellow-subjects have been exposed
by the tyranny (h the minister; haroships
which caution could not obviate, nor
bravery surmount; they were sent io
combat with nature, to encounter with
the blasts of disease, and to make war
against the elements. They w^e sent to
fml the vultures of America, and to
gratify theSpaniards with an easy conoueat.
In the passaee the general [lord Cadi-
cart] died, and the command devolved
upon a tnan who had never seen an enemy,
and was therefore only a speculative war-
rior; an accident, which as it was not un-
likely to happen, would have been provided
against by any minister who wished for
success. The melancholy event of this
expedition I need not mention, it waa
such as might be reasonably expected;
when our troop-where sent out without
discipline* witnout commanders, into a
country where even the dews arefiual.
secured by fortifications, inured" to the
cUmate, well provided and skilfully com-
manded.
In the mean time. Sir, it is not to be
forgotten what depredations were made
iqpon our trading vessels, with what inso-
lence ships of very little force approached
our coasts, and seiaed our merdiants in
s%ht qS our fortifications; it is not to be
foigotten that the conduct of some of
those who owed their revenues and power ^
to the minister, gave yet stnmger proo6
of a combination.
It is not to be forgotten with what ef-
frontery the losses of our merchants were
ridiculed, with what contemptuous triumph
«»] 15 OEOROE <I.
of raneoge they were chftfged witfl ibe
muh of ttiia fitfel war, and now jpid>licljf
way w^e condemaed to suffer for thetr
Xf§iq^ iB ike CmmM
[9
For tftis reasoBy Sir, they were eithar
foBiiad the security of conToys, or forsaken
in the most dangerous parts of the sea, by
those to whose protection Uiev were, in
.appearwice, committed. For this reason,
^y were either hindered from engaging
in ihflir voyage by the loss of those men
who were detained inactive in the ships
of war, or depriyed of their crews upon
the high MOBOf or suffered to proceed only
tabeaome a prey to the Spaniards.
But it was not. Sir, a sufficient gratifi^
aaliori of oar implacable minister, that the
narahaatswere distressed for alanaing the
aalioft; it was thought likewise necessary
to punish the people for beiieviiig too
aaapy the vnorts of the merchants, and to
Mm them for ever agamat daring tomuip
fina tfaemsahres Me to discern meir own
lofterpil, or to prescribe other measures to
the JBttislecB, than th^ should be them^
aalves inolined to pursue; ourmmister was
aasolvad to Bhowui<m,by a master-stroke,
'that it was inhia power todiseppoint their
desfires bjsaenaing to eomply, and to de-
Jteay thaur commerce and weir happiness,
fay die yeiy means by which |hey hoped
. For tins purpose, Sir, did this great man
auBunen au ins politics together, and call
to connsd all his confidants and all his
depoodants, and it was at length, after
mature deliberatieii, detormin^ by their
naitad wisdom, to put more ships into
commission, to aggra)irate the terrors of
the iflapress by new yiolence and severity,
tar draw the sailors by the promise of large
rewards irom the senrioa or the merchants,
$o eolleet a mu;faty fleet, and to diqpatdi
jt OB a Secret £cpeditioa.
A secret expeaitioD, Sir, is a now tenn
of ministeri^ art, a term which may have
been perhaps formerly made u^e of by
aoldlers, for a design to be executed with-
«ttt ^ving the enonn^ an ^qpportun^ of
providing for their defence; but is now
used fer a design with which the enemy
is batter acquainted than diose to whom
the exeoulionofit is committed. A secret
expedition is now an expedition of which
eveiy ^me knows the design, but these at
whe^e ei^pence it is undertaken. It is a
kind of naval review, whidi OLcds those
of the Park in magntf oenoe and expence,
but is equally usdess, and equaiiy rida-
cjbAous.
Upo» these secret e9tpeditioas,IuMim
were fixed for a long time the expectall
of the people ; they saw all the nppssitu
of preparation for real war ; thev w«t
fonoad^ that Aie vorianeiiinthejocbi
retained by uneommim wages to do do|
duty ; they saw the most spedout est
ragement offered to the aailort ; they'j
naval stores accumulated with the oM
industry, heard of nothing but the pi
of new cannon, and new contracts fsf j
vision; and how much reason SQeyerf
had to question the sincen^ of thagj
man who had so long engrossed the.^
nagement of all afQ»rs» they did nst |
cine that he was yet so ahntdeaedtel
forces only to exhaust their meaw,!
equip fleets only to expoao them to ivU
Wh^n therefore. Sir, after the o^
delays, the papers hadiaformedth^iij
that the great fleet was sailed, tta)^
bngar doubtod that tbe Spaanid|,d
to be reduced to our own terms; d^d
paoted to be told in a few dayi, ml
destruction of fleets, die desaaiilia
castles, and theplundeir of cities ; SDdc
one envied the fortune of those irfai
being admitted bto tfuar fimmdaUe ij
were entiUod to the treasurei of m
wealthy enemies. /}
When they had for sona time iaU
tfaeseexpectations, an account wa9broH
&at the fleet was returned widioiitii
least action, or the least attempt, s&dj
new provisions were to be taken is,!
they might set out upon another m
exMdition. 1
but. Sir, this wonder-workiqg ttimli
now lost its efficaq^^, and iti
Umt seetet expeditionsi like all edier •
service were oaiy sinedieBts ts i
the money of the people, and to
dM ignorance or viUainy of the nmm^
Svu^ has been the conduct for iHii^
are desired to return thanks in aam|
and dutiful Address, such aic the Ifli
actions which we are to receoBBeoitttl
^probation of mwp constitaents, sad 9i
me triuaa|dui upon whiel' we amit 08
- gratolate 4>ur aovoraign. i
For my part, ^r, i cannot bnC tliinkl
silence is a censure too gentle tit
wickedness which no language cm oi
gerate, ^ni. for whid^, as it has f^t^tf^
example, human kind hav^ aat viet (Mi
vidod a name. . Munder, pairkue, il
treason, are modest appdlatioBSwlMajl
forvedtodiat conduct by whisk a iafl
betrayed, and a ni^onruin«d,mid^p
ten^ of promotmgits interest, by |Ql
un
#ff M jUknss tfThmib.
A. A. mi.
[Sl6
nsted with the admiftfttnilfM of ptiblie
Ikin.
Let OS dwfefore, Sir, if it be thowght
Nt proper to la^ before hk tnajesty the
CBtimentt ofbs people in their fuu extent,
1 letit not endeatonr to conceal tbem
romhiin; let us at least address him in
och a manner as may give him some oc*
aB(m to enaidre into the late transactions,
fhicb \an tor many years been sUch, that
li aqnire into them n to condemn tiiem.
Sir JZifcrt fFd^ raeeagaiiiyaad said I*
Sir ; diOD^ I am liur from being either
^Bfoonded, or intimidated, by this atro-
joQS charge ; thoug^h I am confident, that
fl tfap meaaitres which lave been so da-
sorodj censured, will admit of a V^ery
iBf Tindicadon, and that whenever they
teexpUded they will be approved; yet
Im accoastion so complicated cannot be
Mded without a long recapitulation of
iKereDti, md a depiction of many par-
nbr drcmbstances, some of which may
Bire evidence, and some 9 very minute
prolix explicatibn, I cannot tnink this
I pnper d^ for engaging in the con-
iMrcny, because it is my interest that it
ifej be accurately discussed.
At present, Sir, I shall content myself
A tare assertions, like those of him by
M«B I am accused, and hope they win
It be beard with less attention, or re-
* " IttooD appeared from the complezion
iftkr Bouae, SM the conduct sf the mmister,
ii bb paww and iofluence were on the de-
^ AalldMtoortMikibeMigpMpiioedby
M«rf Hiibeit, some of the oppontiea oIh
KtisdMBse, •« for retomti^ bio ss^jesly
isb of Hus Hoose, for bio royal earo
bfiMqtiog the war witb Spain." Sir Ro-
gWiIpolcDow felt, for the first time, the
*a«raci8 of bia BitaaiioD, and he attpeared
"ikra or bb atreogib.'* Instead of opposing
**^ as T alteration in the Address, and
^>»^ 4actaria^ tiiat tbe misfortunes of the
^cmM mi bo chaiged noon goTemment,
■■auoHUtopaMiato the tosses which tbe
g»bi4ndftild, and to shew that the war
■^ M bsen 80 nnsnocessfnl as it was repro-
^ aai waaUy agreed, for tbe sake of
T'j^* to omit the paragraph reUting to
* yah war. Palteney arajled bimselfof
*>wnc«mou5 andatnibuted it to fear and
yysigflt He made a long and animated
^ab, nb tit personal invectires ; and anti-
^9^ the triampb of bis party, bjr an allusion
|V^)alsnoe of power. He said, that not
2*ljathe aeorets of government, be was
P^^ita stale abroad, but congratulated
r^*Me that be bad not for many years
""^it w be 80 near an equilibrium uiere as
eeived With iM belief. For sorely it was
fietrer deided to ahy man to dMndhfattsdf
with the same weapotts with wfaieh he is
attaeked.
I shaH therefore. Sir, make no scruple
to assert^ that the treasure of the puluie
has been employed with the utmost fnU
^ity to promote the purposes for which
It was granted; that our fbreign affiui%
have Imn transacted with the utmoift
fidelity, in pursuance of loneconsultatioiis •
and shall yenture to add, that our succesi
has not been such as ou^t to produce any
suspicion of negligence or treadiery.
That our design aAunst Carthagena wu
defeated, cannot be denied ; but what war
has been one continued series-of success?
In the late war with France, of which th^
conduct has been so layishly oebbriited.
did no designs miscarry? If we cotiqu^fea
at Ramillies, were we not in our turn
beaten at Ahnansa? If we deamoyed the
French ships, was it not always with aenat
loss of our own? And since the mflwrM^
of our merchants have been naealiotied
with so much acrimony, do not the JiSIs of
the ships taken in that war, prote that the
depredations of Driyateers oaMiot be esM
tardhr prevented r
Tie disappointment, Sirt of the pad»lie
expectation by the return ef the fleelB^
has been charged upea the adaai '
as a crime too eaoroaooa to be i
it was then, fie then reeapilelaled tbe pri»*
cipal cbams which bad been urged against shr
Kebert Walpole fimn the b^nnuM^ of his ad-
midistmtion ; dwelt very |iar1icnbfly en the
mismanagement of tbe war with Spain, and
OTon earned bis repmach so far as to aocose
bind of being influenced by the enemies sf tbe
Protestant estaUisbmeot.
«« Walpole repelled this intemperate attack
with unusual feebleness ; and after a short but
general justification of tbe measures of go-
▼eramenf. concluded witb saying, ** I am very
for from nopine or desiring that the House
should be satisfied witb a defence like this ; I
know, by obserrin^ tbe practice of the oppo-
nents oit tbe ministry, what fallacies may bo
concealed in general assertions ; and am so far
from wishing to erade a more strict inouiry,
that if tbe gentleman who has thus pol»lidfy
and confidentialty accused tbe ministry, will
name a daj^ for inquiring into tbe state of tbe
nation, I will second bis motion/*
« This challenge was accepted ; tbe Ad<*
dress, without any mention of the Spanisb war,
was voted ; tbe motion made by Palteney to
fix a dliy for eonsideringthe state of the na-
tion, was seconded by Waloole, and the Slst
of January was appomted tor that purpose.**
Coze's Memoin of sir R. Walpole.
S19) 15 GEORGE 11. The
mduMit horror and detestatkm. That the
ministry have not the elements in their
power, that they do not prescribe thecourse
of the wind, is a sufficient proof of their
negligence and weakness : with as much
justice is it chacsed upon them, that the
expectations of uie populace, which they
di4 not raise, and to which perhaps the
conquest of a kmgdomhad not been equal,
fiuled of being gratified.
I am very tar from hoping or desiring
that the House should be satisfied with a
defence like this; I know, by observing
the practice of the opponents of the mi-
nistiy, what fiillacy mav be concealed in
general assertions, and an^.so far from
wishing to evade a more exact enquiry,
that if the gentleman who iias thus pub-
liclv and confidently accused the ministry,
will name a day for examining the state
of the na^tion, I will second his motion.
The Clause for returning thanks to his
majesty for the conduct of the war a^nst
Spain, being given up without a division,
m Committee was appointed to draw up
an Address of Thanksp
Then Mr. Pulteney stood op, and moved
for appointing a day for the House to re-
solve Itself into a Committee of the wh<de
Mouse to consider of the State of the Na«-
tion, and sir Robert Walpole (according
as he had declared he would) immediately
seconded that motion ; whereupon it was
agreed, nenu con. That the 21st. of January
fai appointed for that purpose.*
The Cammotu' Address of Thanks,']
The Address of the Commons was as fol-
lows:
«* Most Gracious Sovereign,
** We, youf majesty's most dutiful and
* " December 10, 17^1. In tbe Com-
mons on Tuesday, there was no division : an
Amendment was proposed by lord Noel So-
merset ; seconded by Shippen, who declared
that he lo?ed divisions ; but that motion- was
dropped, upon sir Robert Walpole's coming
into another ameaclment, proposed by Mr.
Pultenev, who declared against dividing : and
observed, with a witticism, that dividing was
not the way to multiply : in the same hu-
aKNif, upon speaking of tbe balance of power,
he said he di4 not know bow it was abroad,
not being in secrets, but congratulated the •
House, that he had not for these many years
known it so near an equilibrium as it now is
there. He and sir Robert spoke tsvo or three
times a-piece« and agreed apNon going into the .
sute of tbe nation tbe 2isi A next month," ^
(Pose's Walpole : Correspondence ; 'John Orle-
bar to tbe reverend fl. fitough.
Cmmmu* JdAm^ Thank. {S
hyjral si^jecto, the Commons of Greit Bri
tarn, in parlkonent assembled, beg leaven
congriktulate your'majesty t^Km jour sail
and luq^y return to these your kiogdomi
and to return our sincere thanks for you
most gracious speech from the throne
and, at the same time, with hearts full o
duty and gratitude, cannot butacknow
ledge your majesty's regard and atteDtia
to &e honour and interest of this natioQ.
" The great . and impending daogei
that threaten Europe, under the^ presen
critical and perplexed situation of afain
have been represented by j(m majesh
to ^our parliament, for their advice a&
assistance, with such paternal concern, an
such^ affection to your people, such cooi
dence in your jEaithful Cfoounons, and sue
anxiety for the general ^ood of Europi
as cannot fail to excite m us a due seos
of your majesty's goodness and condescec
sion ; and therefore we assure your mi
jesty, in the strongest manner, thatth
House will, as'ofien as these momeDtoi
affiiirs shall come under our consideratioi
give your majesty such advice as becomi
dutiful and fitithful subjects, and such 8
sistance and support as shall be most coi
ducive to . the nonour and true interest
your crown and kingdoms.
** And, in order to answer these nece
saiy purposes, we will grant such efiectu
suppues as Aall enable your msjesty d<
only to be in a r^Kiiness to support yoi
firiends and aHies, at such times, m^
such manner, as the exigency, sodci
cumstanoes of affiurs shall requue ; but,
oppose and defeat any attempts that shi
be made gainst yoiur majesty, your croi
and kingdoms, or against those who beii
ecjually enga^^ed with your majesty, bj t
fhith of treaties, or united by common i
terest, and common danger, dudl be wiSi
to concert such measures as shall be foui
necessary and expedient for msiataini
the balance of Europe."*
» « The coolness of the Address, and '
oniission of the clause relating to the v
with Spain, essentially hurt the minisler.
led his interested followers to 80S|t»;t, that I
power was decKning; while bis firiendi, J'
were sU>ady in their aUachment to the boi
of Brunswick, were of opinisS, thatstrooj
assurances were doe to the king, for the di
ger^ to whichhe exposed his electoral doi
oions, the French having already violated I
stipulated beatrality, and threatened to take
their 'Winter quartera in HanoTer.'' Cq^
Memoirs 6f sir R Wal^toie;
an] Dr. I^ dlMen Chairman ofCmmtteti. . A. D. 1741.
[328
Tie Mmg^s Amwer.'} Hb Majesty
gsretkii Answer:
^ GeDtleiDeD>
** I return joq my tbanks for this doti-
fill and loyal Address, and for' the assu-
ranoes 700 have given me at this cridcal
and ionxyrtant conjuncture. I shall always
Iiare tbe greatest resard to the advibe of
my porlianienty and I make no doubt but
Tou win act therein in such manner as shall
be moat conducive to the honour and in-
terest of my crown an4 kingdoms ; and
^vt flia your support and assistance in
carrying on 'such measures as shall be
judged to be neoessaiy. and exponent." •
Dr. Lee chosen Chainnan of the Com*
vuitee of Privileges andElectiofuJ^J ^^^
16. This day came on the dection of a
Chairman of the Committee of Privilegea
acted with much imprudence in proponng
Giles Earle, one of the lords of the treasury,
whohad been chainnan during the two last
mtrliameots, and was exceedingly unpopular.
Thei * * . ~ ^
iKk
* ** The great points on which th^ two
paitiea exerted their respective strength^ were
tbe dccidoDs oo contested electioos. Ever
soee the Ayleshuiy conteel, when, the House
«f CoeanieBs assumed to itself the power of
jodgiag finally on the qualifications of the
eto^Bfs* wbich .had beea so warmly opposed 1 patriots the other day,
hj Walpole» ia tbe commencement <n bi8 par- -- -
liiiiMlarjr career, the dednon on electioos
Urame a Bacra party bnsniess. . The merits of
tbe ease were seUom considered, and the
ahnost wholty carried b^ per-
iiksal mterests. At the opening of
there were more contested
and as the power bf the-
I oltimately depended on
^ every nerve was strained bv both
ia fikvciur of their respective friends, the
wipifter bad been beard to declare, that there
ihoBhl be bo quarter given' in elections, and
hk fricnda trusted that the decisioDs would
eUcAy be in bis favour. But these saoguioe
hopes were frustrated by the activity of op«
DoatioQ, tbe lukewarmness of many of his
meoda, and treachery of his pretended parfi-
ws. The oppositioQ made it a principal ob-
jsct to attend on these ocpasioas, and it was
rawed infiunoos to desert a committee of
cleotiQQ. On the other band, many of ^hose
who supported government otai staid away,
•ad not unfieqoently voted against the candi-
toes oomiteoaooed oy the minister.
'* Tbe first divisioa which look place was
•i tbe Boashicy electioQ, and the party Ik-
vvoied by the ibinbter carried it only b^ 938
•Sitnsk 916. With this small m%io^qr> V^aK
pole acted as be bad done in former [larlia-
meots. He did ftd suffipteotly adapt himself
M the cbange of tnroumstancesr ^ consult
tbe temp^^the House m the qaestitm which
VIS next BMfvedy- Ibr choosing a Chairmaiiof
dK Committee of Blections. This was' a
loiatof grsat ooosoqueiiDet because bt pQV-
ami eoMiderable pbwer in MueociBg the
WaoDi referred to the commiltse. Walpofe
[TOL.XUO
opposition supported Dr. Lee, wbo was
much more beloved and respected by all par*
ties than his antaffonist. The question was
accordingly carried, from personal considera-
tions, against the ministenal candidate, by a
majority of S49 against.236. Tbe loss ot this
question gaveaniortal blow to his interest,
and redoubled the spirit of his adversaries*
The tirtal. consequences were immediately.
. > visible ; several unsuccessful candidates, wbo
had depended on his support withdrew their
petitions.'^ Coxe's Memoirs of sir B. Walpole.
«< Dec. 10, 1741« There was a division
yesterday, upon a motion made by sir W.
Vonge Ufoq' the return for Bosstney^ against
whidi Kit Tower and JMr. Sabine are peti'^
tioners ; and carried for the motion, only by
999 against 915. This account 1 leave £0
your reflection. It is auppoMd that more than
500 members are in town i and I have heard,
that at a hotch-potch meeting of Torys and
patriots the other day, 910 were presient, end
85 sent excoses, wbo were willmg out not able
to attend. A great struggle is expected tor
the Chairman of the Committee .of Election :
Dr. Lee is proposed on one side, and it is
doui)ted he will make a considerable party :
the old chainnan is reckoned to have made
himsialf many enemies by tbe freedom of hia
wit, ei^ecialty among the Hootch; and it is
iroaffined tliat be w HI be dropt for Mr. Clutter*
buck, in hopes that the latfer's character may
gain him a fiiirer chance."
<( Dec. 17. On Friday the return for Bos-
siney was ordered to be taken off tlie rbU, and
(be reto.m of Messrsi Tower and Sabine filed
in H*S stead— Yeas 294, Noes 918. Alderman
Heathoote, wbo, I suppose, bad been schooled
in his return into the city from his Wednes-
day's vote, not only changed sides, but spoke
on tbe contrary sioe with fury ; and our sir
Roger, who was m the muionty on Wednes-
day, (how that came about I do not know,
unless it was hecauae Tower may have soma
interest at Houghton R^gts,) was likewise in
the minority on' Friday : and I have heard»
that between those two di^s, be was given to
understand by oar duke, that he was not to
expect his interest,' if he did not give every
vote as required. The chairman of the Com-
mittee of Elections was chosen last ni|[ht:
and may this not be a decision ofihe majority!
l?or Dr. Lee 949, for Mr. Earle 938. This I
wasinibrmed of last night, but wiUiout parti
solar observations on the division ; and wel
well
hopedthat this moniing i* might hear • of ten
or a doaen 'at least, either Scotch memberSt
lawyers, or^hers, who migtrt eHbar be pre*
jndiced against the old chainnan, or hava
some other tissoos 6r adiBuig to tbe asw
323j 15 GEORGE n.
and Electiobs, when Dr. Lee was cboten
In opposition to Giles Earle» esq. (who
had been chainnan of that committee in
the two last parliaments)by242 i^gainst 288.
Proceedingf reipeditig tke Westminster
[31
•ne, without bdng enemies to the new admi-
"toiftntion. But all I can find of thai kii^ is,
that Mr. Mellish was in the majority, opon a
promise that on that condition the petition
toalast him sbooTd be dropped; and Tom
lier^y, whoss moti?e I have not heard as-
ngned ; and Mr. CliYe, who wtti steady in
the atfaic of Boasinej, and was Hiciventiioui^t
to be determioed ; and Mr. York Ihr Ridi*
'mond. Are we to be concluded bv.tbii trial?
I, who lo?a always to gire myself hopes, as
long^ as one can reasonably do so, am at prs-
aeot fond of flattering myself, and oor Aiesids,
that out. of the absent members, who are in
town, but firom ^ckoen or other aoddeatain
their ftmily, were disabled from attendmr,
the greater number would hare beenfiarlM&.
'Earfe; and I rsdcon the whole are nglfewer
than eo or 30.
'« Of our friends I know Haobury Williams,
laroche, and White were Isepl away by ill-
ness ; eol. Bladen, by lh» loss' of hw wife's
daughter the day before ; and t9trickland, by
the death of his wife: but as this is but c6n«
jeeture, as to the majority of Uie absenteeSf
and as it is natural to bear, of the sickness, fkc
of friends, more than the oUier par^, nothing
can be eoncluded from it with certamty^ with-
ont knowing every one's name, and the rea-
sons of his absenpe : but then, may we not
BkewiSe suppose, that there might ne half a
score Or more capriqous (such as Mr. York),
or a sort of neutrals to party, so far as that
can be, who were drawn into this majority by
a pre&reMte of the doctor's character in their
own mindsy hut yet, noon material points,
Inay be determined otherwise 1^ reaaon.
.These fiineies, I own, may be deceitful: whe-
ther they are or no, time must dis<^er ; but»
sapposingithe psrtles at present are so near an
tMioality, may we not h(^ that the new dec-
.tions may give strength to the ministry f"
«' Dec. Id. I passed sir Robert Walpole
on Monday last, near Whitehall (h^ in his
chariot, ana 1 in mitie). Upon the little view
t had of him, and to say truth; T did not like
his countenance. I hare heard since, that he
had that morning a long: conference with the
long, from when^ he might be then return-
ing. I hare not heard any one mention how
heholds up ; hut, o* my oonsdence, under our
preaeot situation, both at liome ^d abroad,
nobody^s spir^ but his, in suioh a station,
could keep uto. May his spirits and power
never &il, sd long as his constitutien enables
him (and n^y that be kiQgtoo) to go thrsugb,
the wei^^ty business that Kes upon hidi !'*
Case's Walpole; Conrespondenoa| J6hn0rle^
bar to the reverend H. Elough.
EkctimiPeikjuin^l Dec« O* A Petitic
of several burgesses and inhffbitimfs of tA
ci^ and liberty of Westminster, con^laii
ing of an unaue decticm and return fi
the said city and liberty^ was ordered i
be heard at the bar.
• « The Westminster elecliDt& was the fi
vourite point with the opposSciony becaiuae
afforded the fairest field sgaatint corruptioo ao
a standing army. The friends of tbe sittfo,
members, on the other hand, who were all c
them the iVietidB of the minisSer, thoodj
that the return whieb had been maule Ihr tfaa
boMMgfa was teiy defensible, a« ibe aittiBi
members had an acknowMged' minority a
voles, and as the riols which lisd been iadiu-
trieosly raised had made the inSerTeotkm ol
the mntaiy po^er, who had been leguhrij
called upon hy &e dvil magistrates, aftsolotefy
necessary. The 9Sd of Deoember, this de«
dsive affair came on m he-heard at 4he bar of
the House. Tlie petition bad beei^resented
by Mr. PdMeney, and the ooAber of sub-
scribers were very greats though they Weie in
Eal persons or somewMt lower than mid-
fbrtones. Bnt they had been supported
expenoeof tti«r ajiplication bj a rciuB-
tary snbscriMion, to which sonae great per-
san^^ had op^ly or ssofetly contribuCeiL
Their counsel was Mr. Marraj, nftemrda
lord Bfansfield, and Mr. Evans ; that for the
sittmg members was Mr. Clark, afterwaids t
bsron of the Exche^ner, and aaotlier. Tbe
matter was long and learnedly examined;
hot the circomstsnoes of the hooks bdagsbuf
no without the oonstet of Edwtn, and the
rehirn being made under the piolMlioB of a
party of the guards, carried the determnur/^o
against the minister hy a m^iority ef t?0 ^
against 216. At khe same time the retamii^ «|
officeTi a simple, perplext creature, ir^s cr- l
dered into4he custody of the Serjeant at ariDs; E
and the justioes, who had aent for the soi- |
diers, had a day appointed for befog reon- 2
manded on their knees by the Bpesker. No- j
thing but privste friendship couM hare jnv-
vail^ with the minister to oeme to tiie Hoose
after this. He attended, however, and earned
sevtttd points against his adversaries, sod ereo
tbre«f out some intimatieas as if be bid it {
still 10 his power Idl disappoiat lbs ssagoiDe
expectations they had fimned. Tbey were
sensible j>f the truth of this. Tbe cbiefpirt
of the (^position, which was composed or old
Whigs or violent Tories, begaa« in iikeiraeet'
ings, to talk of teitns whi^ tbey who hid
taken the lead of opposition i^bio doon coda
by no means approve of, but durst not, 9S ye<t
gainsi^^^.because tfaie;y were 8eo$iUe that tbe
othere, upon the. smallest ooneeifed disb^
either, would join tbe minister, or tbow «ie
nation into civif dissensions. A seeoun^ ^^
nimity, therefore, still prevailed SSmi^ ^
gentlemcb of the o^o^on ; hot s p^
correspondenoe ym wm entered into tKtir«»
aas]
MltdnAuiit EleciiiM P€liiio9U
Dm. 15^ The House proceeded to tihe
fcearmg of Iben^tter of tbe Petj|JOD» com-
piaiuiig of an undue election end return
tor the city of Westmin&ter; and» aflter
heanof taaoid^ and the last detennina-
tioa'tftlie Heqse, conceniing the rk;ht of
dectng Giftizeofl to serve, for the said city,
oadette isA Nov. 1680, when the House
resolved, ** Ihat the king's menial servants^
not haviog proper houses of their own
vithin the coy of Westminster, have not
a right to give voices in the election of ci»
UMQBto ssrve in parliament for the said
dty," «Bs abo read. A^d the Standing
Order of the Uoosef made the 16th Jon.
17S6, tn TMtraintng the counsel at the
bvofthisH^usey or before the Commit-
tee of PritS^es and Election^, Ataa oflkr-
iog evidence, touching the legiidiQr of votes
he members to serve m parliaipent for any
oouB^, shiie, city y borough, cinqua-pott,
or plai»,'cpntrary to the last determination
m the House of Commons, was also read,
and the counsel ftv the jpetttieners were
beud; snd havinj^ examined several wit«
Mme of ihffhcsils, and seme about his ma-
ifit||f*8 persM, who were po' enemies to tbe
niniter, but theu^fat it weuld be for tbe ser-
nce of tbe public if he should retire from
power vilbottt any civil oonvulsion attending
bii dismianon.*' TindaL
**Jaaaify ts, 1749. My lord; though
lWop(MMitieB at oresent triomphs in a ma-
jvitf upon tbe division about the Westminster
d0M» wbefi It was imagioed sir Robert
vnM exert hm utmost strenglh-*-tboagh Nu-
gnt carried with him into the ooontry a body
«f napected friends in order to keep tnem out
sf bann'a way, as they csU Jt*-notwitbstand-
TBf lord Qtge and IMington have laid their
Im^ togeOicr, and that bis lordship offers
ratialibe considerable wagers that all tbe
UnabeldlB are tra^-^^nd ttoogb Lhtleton
«i Pit m dg>mnined to blow MpCarltoo-
1mm tiAertluin not have a ehance to do
Bare niKbief ;*-tlits same opposition, with
any beada, ^ms to be neither so powerful
DWM aaaoinions as it woold fain appear. If
HDooerape and lord GarpoiterbU voted
atke Wtatmtnster election, as they havede-
cbMthey Witt do ibr thfe future, I beliere
^^QoaiMi had not been lost at tfaatthne.
i^John fiackviHt, sir Cteyers D'Arey, sw
p Water, both the Hr. Arthurs, Mr. Mwyn,
Nrwaiiatais, fOr. La Boche, Mr. Caawell,
Mi. Uitcfactt, and some others, whose namea
I (Mdd not Warn, withdrew, of did not attend,
Ngb tbsy wsBB an in or near town $ and I
I^Dot btard the name of one or two of
w friends who was in or near town, and
^Nt attend U^t day. €f the
^ «ks sie to take their seats M
A. a 1741. [SSfr
nesse^ tbe ficther heanng of that matter
was adjourned*
Dec. 22. The House proceeded to tbe
fiurther hearing of the matter of the Peti-
tion for the city and liberty of Westmin«
ster. Having examined several witnesses.;
and the counsel on both sides being with-
drawn, a motion was made and the ques^
tion put» That William h)rd.Sundon is duly
elected a: citiaen fiur Westminster; k
MBsed m the negative, by 230 against 216.
The question bmng pot, That sur Charlee
Wager is duly elected a citizen fbr Aesaid
city; it passed m the nwative, by 2SXJ(
against 215, and the said Section was de*r
dared void.
And a motion behig made to adjoorq^
it passed in the negative by 217 against
215{ and it was resolved, ** That Mk
John Lever, Ugh bailiff of the city of
Westminster, acted at the said elecdon in
an flleffal and arbitrary menner, in preju*
dice of the rights and libertiea of the elec>
tors of the said city, and in manifest vioh»*
tidn of the freedom of elections.'' Them
the court has a' mi(j6rity of seven. Captain
Rutherford being taken off adds another, and
if the last Westminster election be declared
void, we sain two more fur. the State of the
Natton. Whether any and what converts
have been, or, before the Slst, instant, shall^
be made, 1 cannot pretend to say.
«< Sir Robert was to-dSy observed to be
more nttorally gay and foil of spirits than
he has been for some time past Tbe same
observation was likewise made of Mr. Pelr
ham, whose steadiness seems to be that ex*
eellent mortar that binds my lord President,
my lord Steward, my lord Chancellor, and
even hts grace of Newcastle himself.
•" It is generally agreed that sir Robert wUl
never give up, nor bring any body in, if he '
can possibly aroid it ; and that his nugesty
will never mrsake him ; that tbe Tories would
come into any terms ;. and that tbe patriots,
being sensible of that, are so atraid of bein^ '
left m tbe lurch,. that they only wait ibr tbe
first good offer. It is wetlkoown that Pulte^
ney carries whh him hot four members, and
that lord Carteret has few followers besides
tbe Fnicbes. Pulteney's terms seems to be a
peerage and a place in the cabinet council if be
can ffvt it. How tar Mr. Pelham's friendship
Ibr him may facilitate either of these things, J.
will not pretend to ju(^. If somebody most
bebroognt id, it is thought lord Cartf ret will
unsay & he has said, and be heartily glad to
laugn at the great Argyle. People do nott
thinic lord Ila and his grace hate one another
so heartily as they pretend." Coxe's Wal-
pole :. Correspondence ; sir Robert^Wilmot to
|he duke of DefOBsfaira.
3273
IS GEORGE n.
Wetfmbutei' EteOhn PtUHoK,
C»
8 motion being made fb? takine the said
John Lever into the custody of the aer-
jeant at arms ; it was resolved in the affir*
native; ^
A motion being, again made to adjourny
it. passed in the negative, by 206 against
200. ' / '
Hereupon it was resolved, << That it ap-
peairs to this House, that a body of urmed
soldiers, headed by officers^ did, on the.
8th' of May last, come in a military man-
ner, and tike possession of the church-
yard of St. Paul Coyent Garden, near the
place where the said poll was taken^ be-
fore the said election wiE» ended: And
that the presence of a r^ular body of
armed soldiers at an election of members
to serve in parliament, is aa high infringe-
ment of the liberties of the subject, a ma-
nifest violation of the freedom of elections,*
^and an open defiance of the laws and con-
stitution of this kingdom."
* It was also, orctered, That Nathani^
. Blackerby, Ge6rge Howai'd, and Thomas
Lediard, esqrs, do attend the House on
' the 22d of January next.
January 23, 174^ Mr. Blackerby, Mr.
Howard, and Mr. Iiediard, attending ac-
cording to order, were brought to the bar;
and, upon their knees, reprimanded by
Mr. Speaker, as th^ House had directed.
The reprimand was as follows ; viz.
« Mr. Blackerby, Mr. Howard, Mr.
Lediard:
** You having, at the bar of this House,
confessed, that you did send for, and
cause to come, on Friday the 8th day of
May last, a body of armed soldiers, headed
by officers, in a military manner, who did
take possession of the church-yard of St.
IVl Covent Garden, near the place where
the poll (for the election of citizens to
serve in this present parliament for the city
of Westminster) was Uken, before the said
election was ended, and you having ac-
knowledged your offenfce therein, the
House did order you to attend this morn-
ing, to be brought to the bar, to be repri-
manded,, on your knees, by me, for the
said offence :— I cannot better describe to
YOU the nature of this ofilence you have
wen guilty of, than in the words of the Re-
solution this House came to, upon their
examination into that matter ; wnich are :
* That the presence of a regular body of
* armed soldiers at an election of members
* to serve in parliament, is an high infringe-
< ment of the liberties of the subject, a ma
• and an open de6ance of the hmu and
< constitution of this kingdom.'— ^And it ■
impossible, if ^oo well conaider the teml
of this Resolution, bat Ifiat you most bmn
in your breasts the deepest sorrow mod ret
morse for this rash act of yours, frhich, iJ
it had not been animadverted v^on^ mte^
have given the most dangehms wound tf
the constitution of this free country, ^M
perhaps it had ever felt : this coimtry, €nt{
oecause this House is So ; which thi^ Houl
can never be, but from the .freedom 4
elections to it; and amidst the too man]
ways for violating that, none canbemoM
pernicious, because none more quick, dai
cisive, and permanent, than what ym
might unbap^lty have set a precedent fin^
and which mient have grown to an eztttN
mity, under ue specious and ready prd
tences of fears and nedessity, Aat Bwpt^
sede all law ; a precedent that would umH
received an authority from the place it be*
gan in*— ^ seat of the government and le^
gislature of this kingdom >—Nece88iCn
which is to- take place of law, must be idl
to the circumstances of every perticida!
case ; the act must be presumed to hi
wrong, inquired into as such, and excnsel
only by the clearest proofe, that the nOi
cessity of it was r^af : — ^What you have
done, is against one of the most esaeatiil
parts of the law of the kingdom : has any
real necessity *been shewn for it ? Theas
might be fears, there mi|(ht be some daa^
ger, but did you tiy the strengdi of te
law to dispel those fekrs, and remove thai
danger ? Did you make use of those
powers the law has invested you with, ail
civil magistrates, for the preservation tf
the public- peace ? No ; you deserted dt
that, and wantonly, I hope inadvertently,
resorted to that ^orce, the most unnatum
of all others, in all respects, to that cause
and business you were then attending, and
for the freedom of which every Briton
ought to be ready almost to sufler ai^
thing : more might be said, but you.have
acknowledged your offence,iand have asked
paxdon for it : this has di£|>06ed the Ikoie
to lenity : use it not to less^i the sense cf
your crime, but to raise in your hearts diat
sense of gratitude you owe to the Hoiiss^
for the gentle treatment you ha^e net
with on this occasion, in expectation of
which you are discharged, paying your
fees." .
Resolved, That tbe Thanks of.tkji
House be given to Mr. Speaker, for^^dv^
said Spee<£, and that he be dtsired la
print tbe same. v^
m
l%i Comm^muSmmu
A. D. mi.
{390
Tke Cmmam adfomm^A Mess&ge
^rmtlieKmg to the Prwee of Wales—
TkeFrmce's Amnoer.*2 Oa the 2^ o£
Diecember, ibe Hqvne of Couunonfl ad*
oorned to ike ISlh.of Janusiy, 1742.
OoCheStfaofJanaaiy 1742, Dr. Seeker,
• *« Cb &• i4|h of Deoember,- tbeHoue
»f Comnion ftdjaomed to the 18th of Ja-
iiory ; and that short iotenral wa« employed
^) the nuoisler io attempts to increase his
fnah, and to maiotain himself in power ;
tmt in bis efforts wei'e ineflectaa). The staie
^i ha vn health was a principal canse of bis
dowD6L He had suffered at the latter end of
thepmrinirjearfinoniaserereiUness. His
nea^ was no loii|^ ao strong, nor his
metiwd of tnooactoig business so ready a^
kefere. fleace he was incapable of« making
Dmk aertions which his critical situation ren-
iatA iKceiaary ; of unmasking his t»a-
ckeioQS frie^^ ; of exposing his enemies, and
tfadopliog sndi messuies as would hare
nabM him to act with Tigour, or to retire
vfthdipiity. During this sesnod he ap-
peucdiogeaeralahaeot and thoughtful. He
»ncd tD have lost, in many iusluiGes» that
wtraiplaf sbuwy and coimnaDd of temper,
fir which he had been remarkably distin-
gvishrd : be was either, contrary to nis usual
ctttom^nlcnt, or he was irritable and fretful.
la Qoe instance he publicly said, (hat if be
cwMcolleetthe rea) sense of the House on
^WmltsiiddaiigeroassitnatMW ofafiairs,
M wsald rapport it as a minister in the ca-
M. TbeloH of the Westmipster qaestMm
«|iittuhate been the signal of his imme-
^ reonistieD, and many of his friends
*«e of that opinion. But be still appeared
*iVRK to retain his power as long as be was
*^t *od daring the recess of pariiament, be
aaAeuill-rad^ application to seduce the
pace of Wales from bis party, b* which his
^**CP«ty •od knowledge of maakind
<"^ttohaTecooYiDced him, thatbebadno
^of seoeeediDg. Being infornned that
^ taeabert of opposition proposed to renew
^eptioo in paiiiamcnt, for increasiufir the
WahaieDt of the prince, be prevaifed on
|MQig, not without the greatest difficulty,
noftr SD iaerease of 50,000/. to his annual
JJ^I^ttd to insinuate hopea that bis debts
l^lAbe paid, proirided he would not oppose
»CDieasiires of government. A message to
nis porpoK was cmnreyed to the prince by
^«bop of gxfimi, at the instance of lord
t;ioioioQdeiey, and by command of the kmg.
tae pnote, Jfiat due expressions of doty and
^^^ declared that he considered the mes-
^uconuDfffrom lord Cbdmondeley, and
^tnND the king, and therefore would not
r^^^y piMosition of anmilarimpert, so
^ «• «r lUbert Walpole oontiDued at the
^tt^tidQUDirtratkm. The resignatioD of
,„^^ Wslsole was. now considered as
^Mbyhiafnends afidcBeBUMi but
bishop of Oxfiwd, wtdted on his royal high*
ness the Prince of Walesi at Carieton- .
house, with the following Message, ddi-
vered to him (as he said) by the earl of
Chohnondeley, from his maiestjr : *^ Thai
if his Royal Highness would write a lette?
he had still more mortifications to experience
before his fate was ultimately decided.
** As many erroneous narratives of this
transaction have been given to the public, I
shall subjoin an account, which I found among
the- Waipole papers, in the band-writing m
sir Robert Waipole, and bearing the following
endorsement ; «* An account of what paam
between H. R. U. and tord Oxford, January 5^
1741-S, with the printed lettor that nassed be-
tween the king and prince upon the breach."
" An Account of what'the bishop of Oxford
said to the prince of Wales, from lord Chol-
inondeley, authorized by bis majesty, Ja«
auary 5, 1741-S.
•* That if his royal highness would write a
dutiful letter to bis miyesty, expressing his
concern for what was passed, in such a manncF
as might be consistent with his majesty's ho-
nour to accept, representing the uneasy cir«
cumstaaces of his rortuae, and-referring them
to his majesty's goodness, lord Cholmondeley
had full and sufficient pt>und, from his know-
ledge of his majesty's intentions and diaposi-
tions, to assure his royal highness that his
majesty would be reconciled to him ; and
would add 50,000/. a year to.his present income,
and would not require anjr terms from )iim, in
relation to any of those persons, who were in
his royal highness's service, counsels, or confi-
dence, nor retain any resentment or displea-
sure against htm.
'* To this lord Cholmondeley added, that
there was no doubt but that his royal high-
ness's debts would in this case be provided for,
in such a manner as upon farther considera-
tion, should be found most proper and Lmprao-
ticiible. '
** The Answer of bis royal highness, Ja-
nuary 5, 1741-2. '* His royal hiffbness used
strong expressions of duty and election to his
majesty, and answered further to this purpose:
that if this bad been a taessage directly from
hik majesty, it would haveb^ his (mty to
have written .a Tetter to H. M. on the occa-
sion ; but as it was a proposition that came
fromJord Cholmondeley, in the manner I had
mentioned ; his answer to lord Cholmondeley
was, that he would uot hearken to it, so long
as sir Robert Waipole was in power, by whom
be conceived himself to have been greatly \n^
jured, &ad to whom be thought the most pm
dent advice Unt sir Robert Waipole himself,
and the public, was, that he should retire ;
and that he, the prince, had before this re-
oaived intimatites of the same^atore vrith
those 1 had now said to him, and desired not
to have any more, whibt sir Robert eontinoMi
in powjBr.'' Coxe's Memokt .of.eic & WaU
pole. ^
J»3
15 eAQBGB n.
Caiwwr
t>J
gke a gncious recepdon to akn*
liii fHeMSy those of his coaQcils and sev-
j whor ahoold all be provided for in
tine : That the 50|000^ per annum
ehooU be imme^atdy added to his Royal
HighnesB*a present inoome : and, that all
Ua debts should be paid with all convenient
q>eed.''
To this his Royal Highness retumed the
fbllowiog Answer:
<< That he look)ed on this Message as a
proposal from the minister, and not from
nis majesty : That he woiild embrace the
^rst proper opportunity to throw himself
at hii majesly's feet: and at that time
should be &rftom piescribing terms fcr
Iii^self to his raajes^ : but that he could
not come to court wh3e sir Robert Wal-
pole presided in his majesty^s councils:
that he looked on him as the sole author
of our grievances at home, and of our ill
luiccess in the West Indies: and that the
disadvantageous figure we at present make
in all the courts of Europe, was to be
attributed alone to him.".
Debate in the Lords an a Motion Jbr
Bear Admiral Haddock^s Orders and In-
struetions.*'] January 19, 1742. The or-
* From the Sicker MamuKripS.
January 19, 1749. Motion for Haddock's
Orders and iDstructions.
Baihunt. Said there were several deAcienoies
in the Papers laid before the Hottse : that there
bed been no papers relating to Iranaactioas
with the queen or Hueoary tater than August
15, laid before them : that no Orders mapMrsd
to have been given Haddoek from Dec. 18,
iriO, I think till September 1741: and those
of Dec. 18 do not appear to have been re-
esifed ; that Haddoek says, he will attaofc the
(Bpaaiards, if the Freodi are not joined with
them: that several parts of the papers sbenM
be considered in order : that at preseat be
■Kived,
«< To address finr Copies of the Ordera and
Instructions given to Haddock for his he-
havionr in case of a ionction between the
Freneh and Spaniards."
9sme$sik: I quoted to Mr. Haddock the
Mer of December 18, when perhaps I thought
' ' .aadheowi "
it had been forgot a Kttle,
befeesivedit. At that time the eyes of every
My weie not in Mediterraneea, hot the West
ladlifs: e?en the Orden which 1^ aooid«it did
■ec anrive h»v« been laid before the Heose.
The oenrt of Vienna did not keep Mr. Kobin-
ien*s representatMOs secret, and thereibre he
hedev4s»la«ahaaaH0feinwiitiDg. Sap>
darofdie
lor taking iot
the State of die Nation : I
was proposed, ** That tbe House be ooi
adfoumad during pleasurey and pot into
Committee thewipon." Whidi being ofa
jectedto; It was naovedy <« That an famn
Ue Address be presented to Ins majest]
that he will be graciously pleaand to ordei
that there be laid before this House
copies of the Orders and Instmctioc
whidi have been sent to rear admind Had
dock, so fiur as the same cm:icem his coc
duct and behaviour in case of a jimctio
of the French and Spanish fleets.'^ Afle
dd>ate ; the question waa put^ upon th
said Motion, ijid it was resolved in tb
negative.
Debate in the Commons on Mr, Pultt
ne^^s Motion Jor re^rring to a Select Com
mittee the several Papp-s relating to ih.
Conduct of the FFar.* J January 21. i
Motion being made by Mr. Pultenej, tba
the several I^qiers presented to the Hooa
on Monday and yesterday by Mr. Comp
trailer, be referred to a Select Coaunittet
and that they do examine the same, and
report to the House what they find mate
rial therein : it occasioned a great debate
peae in a case of junction. Haddock had orden
to attack, but had not strength, should lliis
be known f No good can come by nubiisbiog
such orders. Better niinisten should faeios-
peoted of ha?ing given none, than bana braiglrt
upon the nation to justify them.
Chesterfield. There can be no ham in koov*
ing whether he had orden to attack our eoemicfi
and this question is ae more ; Ibr wbalerer
power joins them is such. But then maj be
great harm if it be net known, and Fiaaoe is the
first power that ahonld knew it ladeedfiitef
mnat believe you wiU attack them nata tbef
know the eeatfaiy. Aodif theyfcai«Kbi>v'^
is fit we should know it loo : tbo lesflooi for
rsfasing these papers wiU beaa well koowo
as the papers themselrea can be. It m.*.^'
known diat Vernon bad orders to attack the jMDt
fleet in the West Indies; and if orders now u«
eonesaled, it is not lest Fiance shooU wv,
but lest Engbnd shooki know. .
Hereey. If any tordcaa doubt wbcOiar socb
eiders have been seat, I shonU be ibr nrMlifo^
them. But this is impossible: thereto bsye
some bdulgenee to the opinion of the lords n
tiie adnunistration.
Carttrtt. The aoUe kwd hath admitted there
are such Orders, and if every other lord m ^
adminiatratiaa wiU apeak eaplicidy, this »
an answer, and will giro sadsflM^oo ebrosfU
Bui tbeie is net a man in Hottand btii^^
• Fran the London Magaaiie.
Ij rdaihgieae OonAia tfAe War.
„ PJime^ introduced his Motion
\ the folloiring Speech ;
I bive always tliooghty tfatt when
1 trdoff are g^yen. Nothing^ will give
lift to our friends in Italy than such a de-
I. Bot orders are nugatory withoat
Fmnee will not take such orders ill.
„j the Preoeh and Spaniards Came back
lioMriea, Hflddoek bad means, and per-
efinperar's death was one occasion of
Mug back. Why did we not strengthen
^ tbeo when we wanted ships no where
tlie French dealt plainly with you, and.
I they sent a fleet into America to hin*
I from making conquests there, and
,_Bfiir Chaloner O^ bad orders to attack
i,iot 00^ jointly with the Spaniards, but
iHely ; and the kmg's Speech m effect says
I donbt whether any Orders
. ibr I think none were
Mas;
of the French if they would let
was not material, and if we attacked
\b and they assisted tbem, it was
on onr part to attack the French,
mntt declare themselTes our enemies
it owned there were proper orders
iheWest iDdies: why ihonhl it be
isihiscaseP It is as m«eh known al-
dlttwe sbeidd defend oorselTesas the
f orders can make it known. The
means doth not come in here* Bat
idlers knew we should defend oar-
it might ruflie some of them to teU
I do declare in the most solemn
ihr the safEsfaction oTthe noble lord who
ehiely, that I am fai great donbt whether
twwn ^ven, and therefore hone he will
In. Onr ministers iuiew the Spaniasds
to Italy, yet, sir J. Norris was
t to intercept Lam Torres when there
idmaoe for it, and so that he could- not
Hbj ibiag to Haddock. ETery body
'* eToakSi squadron was come out, and
boar it oould net be doubted but
; to wait for ds, and yet Haddock
I iciiiforced in tikne. If we see these
^IihaR liaTe once ooceasion tocoimneDd
I action of this admmistration.
ik. A neUelord hath said tonly that
i widumt means are nugatory, and we
I do not still repent of the war
, bat you hare almost alt the mari-
H against you and none fbr you.
loUhed to send above 30 men of war
r Wert Indies. If su: J. Norris
4dayseooMr,tbe enemies' squadrons
Aa^ might hare been prevented,
leaeeoiints of the Spaniaids demgn
kalioin being kept alive, bat not of
And there were 4 ships of 44 gnns
» Haddock in June; 3 more were
1 Aagost but did not go ; bat 4 went
'^'Hr,and it was considered,' whether
pKpen of state ate caUed fbr by tiua
Hoine» as weU as when sooh fiapera me
laid before us without heifig caUed for, at
should be with some sost of view or design*
more conld be spared, and found that you had
not at home at that time a squadron eaual to
the French. Ten ships of theirs indeed could
not have invaded us, bot they could have in-
sulted OS. AAerwards 5 more were sent to
Haddodc: in aU IS, sinee the beginning of
June : and two more have been kept with taim,
that he might have means. There are now ^-
mott ordered to be sent him, and God known
whether there will then be 4 left. There is a
good deal of diflference between suspecting a
Sling and knowing it. And are you m a con-
dition here at home, if when diese Orders are
avowed, the French should l^re it ill ? It may
not be king before orders may be riiefWn. *
Lamdate, There most be «Nne. dindfan^
tidies m miiuag saeh an Order known. Eveigr
step in ralatien to France is of great iosvert-
anoe. And the French got nothing by declaring
with what desien they sent their squadron into
America. And what will the advantages be ?
your honour most be vindicated by deeds not
words. Maldng these Orders public wll| not
give spirit to other countries. The more spirit
we have shewn here, the less hath been shewn
in other abuses. The only way isto act wisely,
Ner win it give satis&ctien at home Uil yen
can satisfy them ^hat you ,have the n^ns, aa
well as that you have given orders.
CkaterfieJd. We have above 200 men of
war in commission, and it is said we have not
means of being superior to half the number, but
have been always tremUing fbr the superiority
of our enemies. It is strange tiiere should lie
no eiders to Haddodc after Deoember 1740,
though we knew of the Spanish embarkation.
And the Snanbh embassador at the Hi|pw
said, it would go without molestation from us.
Might not means be wantmg on onrpese for
executing orders which no£>dy uurst giveP
There was no need of asidng for Ternoa's
Orders, for he acted, but in the Mediterranean
we have net acted. I believe it will not be long
beibre these Orders are shewn, tberifbre wonM
have this admhiistraiian have the honoar of
doiiyit.
ArdtfickeC. The Franch do believe we shall
attack them, bat this is diilerent ftom aothentio
proolb of it The motion for papers n^ide
some days ago was limited to such as rsbte to
Haddock's behaviour towards the Spaniards,
and that was done with a view to this present
question. Orders rebuing oidy to an actual
junotian of tb^ FreniA and Sponuords, would
be impedbBt and blasBPwbis, and if tliey «K-
tend Mher, would yon mtke this pnbGc to
give n handle to FVaaeeP It ia better to let
the administratien vemaia oi^nstified than
^ ponere ranaores anti sahitem.' I wish we
could man ^ ships we have ; but the business
of the means is net that of the day.
Carried hi the negative witfaont adivbrien.
4
S3S]
IS GEORGE U.
[sat
We know very well, that wliesi treftties^
«0timaitiM or aooounts are kid before ut
without being called for, it is generallj
with a design to demand a sum of mo-
ney, or vote of credit ; and such demands
have of late years been usually complied
with, I believe, by most members of this
House, without so much as looldnff at
any one of the papers or estimates, which
were laid before us as the foundation of
that demand. This practice. Sir, must be
allowed to be a little extraordinary ; but
our late practice, with reeard to thoseTpa-
pers that are expressly csSieA for, has been
much more surprising ; for after the pa-
pers called for nave been laid before us,
thev have been ordered to lie upon the
table, and there they have generally lam,
without the least examination, as if we had
had no view in calling for them, but that of
increasiog the bulk e£ our voles by long
lists of letters, instructions and memorials.
Experience has shewn, that when such
papers are ordered to lie upon the table
for the perusal rf the members, they are
aeldam penised with attention by any,
and when they are perused separately and
distinctly by a few particular members,
Bone of them have authority enough to
prevail with the House to ehter into a strict
mquiry, or to take into consideration the
errors, mistakes or blunders, they may
from such papers have discovered.
For this reason, Sir, and that the nation
may see we do not put the administration
%o the trouble and expence of laving piles
of state papers before us, without any
view or design, either for the service or
satis&ction of the public, I think, when
we call for any papers of importance, and
they are accordingly laid before us, they
ought of course to be referred to a select
committee, that thev may examine them
strictly, and report their remarks, observa-
tions, or objections, to the House ; for the
examination of such a committee must
always be more exact and full, and their
report will have more weight, than the
examination or report of any single mem-
ber, who peruses the paj^rs upon our ta-
ble, without any direction or authority
from the House.
When I argue in Uiis manner, Sir, I
hope no gentleman will think, that I am
arguing asainst this or any other adminis-;
tration ; for a wise and just administration
will alwa3rs be glad to have its conduct
inquired into in the most strict, regular,
and authentic method ; and if Uie admi-
niitratioA be weak or wicked, it is then the
Ddide in ike Comimmi
dut3r of pariiament to take that
which is the most resular, and the moi|
proper for rescuing the nation oat of th^
hands of such an atuninistration; therefor^
every gentleman must, with me, suppose
one of these two things : either, that ih^
doctrine I have advanced will be approve^
by those who. have the honour of beio^
our present ministers, or that their o[^
posing it ought to be a prevaiHug ar^gu
ment with every independent member o
this House for agreeing to it ; and conse
quentlv, I must look upon it as an esta
blishea maxim, that all the papers whid
are laid before this House, and deemed \i\
be of great importance, ought to be re
ferred to the consideration j^of a Selec
Committee.
This, Sir, is a maxim whidi will holi
good at all times, and in M cinmmstaDces
but when the nation finds itself invohei
in great difficulties, when our affiurs boti
abroad and at home are apparently ii
great distress, and when a general suspi
cion prevails against the omduct of ou
administration; this maxim ought do
jonly to be approved, but in every u
stance, without hesitation, porsiied: m
that this is our case at present, 1 shall en
deavour to demonstrate. With regard t
our trade and manufactures, they hav
been upon the decay for several years
every man is now sensible of this decaj
and every man is now convinced, that it i
owing to the taxes we have upon the m
cessaries and conveniences of life. B
these taxes the subsistence of poor laboui
ers and manufiicturers is rendered mor
expensive in this than in any foreign coui
try, which 'of course renders it impossibl
for them to work so cheap, and this mui
necessarily make our manufactures cm
dearer to fordgn markets than the manv
factures of any other country* This hi
gradually dimmirtied the quantity of ov
exports to all parts of the world, excq
to our own plantations, and must, at ksi
put an entire stop to our exporting an
one sort of manufhcture ; for other lu
tions will by degrees fall into the metho
of rivalling us in every sort, and as fast i
they do, our export of that sort of manv
facture must cease.
We may talk, Sir, against the export!
tion of our wool, and busy ourselves i
forming schemes for preventing it; bt
unless we can, by abolishing many of oi
taxes, enable our poor to work as cheat) t
the poor in other countries do, it will t
impossible for us to prevent it, any otbi
»7]
rdaikgU^ Coiubut ^tke War.
A. D. 174S.
[SS8
wty tfcaa hy dhwinMiing <mr produce ; fat
if we cm wmic up Bone of our wocd, but
birelj wliflt 18 necessary for home con-
nfflptioD; and if a greater quantity be
pnMtiioed than what is necessary for this
demand^ the surplus must be exported, or
it most rat upon the liands of the owners,
irhicli would render it impossible for manj
«f our fivDiers to pay their rents ; and Ihis
mi^ in a little time, make the cry as loud
for the exportation of our wool, as it is
flow against it.
The iwd effects of our taxes, and the
graft decrease in the export of our manu-
factures, were most sensibly felt. Sir, be-
ftre the breaking out of our present war
with Spain; but they then began to be
nore sens&ly felt than ever, because that
vtr put an entire stop to our exportation
of tny manufactures to Spain, and made it
Bore daneerous to export them any where
e^ wfaidh of course enhanced the price,
aod, consequently, diminished the sale at
every other foreign market. This at once
thiew aambers of our poor labourers and
■A«ifi|cturers out of tneir usual way of
*«hsi8tii^, and brought them and* their
&mflies upon their resjiective ^arishis,
vhich has, in many parishes, raised the
poon rates to a height never known her
fore ia this, nor, I believe, in any other
his, Sir, is the present desperate state
^ our trade, and God only knows when,
orifever we shall recover; but this is far
I'Ofn being the only dire effect of the long
cosdmianee of our many heavy taxes.
Our people bore with patience tSne loads
^ groan under, as long as they had any
^>es of seeing our debts paid off, and our
^^es abdished ; but they have now lost
dl hopes, and ^is creates a general un-
«Hae», which, if not speedily removed,
mfut end in the subversion of our liberties,
^ perhaps, the overthrow of our present
^y establishment. If this unhappy
<^e had been die necessary consemtence
^ a loQ^ and unavoidable war ; if oy the
^'^^'•ordinary e^^)ence we have put our-
«l»es to for twenty years past, the balance
^ power m Europe had been settled, upon
t solid foundation : if we had establisned
ttch s confidence among our allies, and
>^h 8 respect at all the courts of Europe,
> to prevent any one of them from dann^
to insult or injure us, the people would
n>*e had some consolation, and would
^ have had reason to hope, that, at last,
^ might have been able to have paid off
^ debts, andaboluAied most of our taxes.
Bat can this be said to be the case ? We
have been en^ed in ho war : We have
h|d no occasion to put ourselves to any
extraordinary expence ; for Twill venture
to say, that if we had not for these twenty
years past sent one* minister or courier
abroad, nor kept one marching regiment
on foot at home, the balance of power
would have been more secure than it is at
present, and we should have been more
confided in by our friends, and more
dreaded by our enemies, tlmn we are at
this time, or have been at any time within
that period.
It is something surprisingi Sir, but it b
what the whole nation is nowxonvinced of,
that every extraordinary article of expence
we have put ourselves to for twenty yeart
|>ast| every negociadon we have entered
into, and every treaty we have condoded^
has contributed tb embroil more and more
our affairs, both at home and abroad, and
to render the bahmce of power in Biu'ope
more precarious than it was before. By
this conduct, Sir, wa at last found our-
aelves involved in an open war with Spain,
and threatened and dictated to by Frimcet
without one ally to assist us, and without
one ftmd for carryiq^ on the war, except
an additional two shulbgs upon land; ior
we can no more call the sinking fund ii.
ftmd for carrying on a war, than^we can
call the funds appropriated to the payment
of the interest growing due to our publie
creditors a fund for that purpose ; because
the sinking fund was so solemnl]^, as le-
gally, and as authentically appropriated to
the payment of their principal, as ever the
other was to tlie payment of their interest.
In these circumstances we were, Sir,
nay, I may say, in worse, when the late
emperor died x fbr France, by sending her
squadrons to the West Indies, and the ma-
nifesto she published upon that occasion,
had in some measure openly declared
against us; and considenng what litde
success we have had against Spain alone^
what success could we have expected
against France and Spain united together
agamst us ? From this immediate danger
we were set free by the accident of the
emperor's death ; for FVance then foresaw
she might have a better game to play,
and was therefore willing to keep fair with
this nation for a time ; but how were we
set free. Sir, from this immediate dan^r I
Sir, by the balance of power's beiuff
brought into the most imminent, and in all
human probability, the most unavoidable
danger; for, in my opinion, nothing less
aaaf] is george il
thtn a miracle lias hitherto pferoitad die
utter ruin of the House of Austria, consi-
dering the many powen which Franoehas
found means to unite against it, and the
little assiifttance it has received fVom those
who were both in honour and interest
obliged to support it* This, Sir, I say,
has for a time prevented our having France
avowedly united with Spain in the present
war against us. If the emperor had lived,
we should probably, before now, have been
obliged to submit to such terms of peace
with Spain, as France pleased to prescribe,
or we should have been now standing sin-
gle, and alone, against the joint force of the
two powerful monarchies of France and
Spain; for considering how we had de-
serted the emperor iin the year 1733, he
would probably have rejmced at our dis*>
tress; considering how we have trei^
the kins of Prussia for seyend years past,
he would certainly have refused to give us
any assistance ; and the Dutch duSst not
have ventured to have j[oined us, without a
powerful confederacy m Germany^ By
Sood conduct, and the assistance of Prpvi-
ence, we misht, perhaps^ by ourselves,
have been able to nave supported such a
war, especiaOv if we had oy our former
economy paia off our debts, and freed our
public revenue from mortgage. We might
liave carried it on with glory, and ended
it with honour; but considering what a
powerful navy France might have fitted
out, if she had no way been obliged to di-
vert her strength by a hmd war, and con-
sidering how we should have been obliged
to divide our naval force, for the protec-
tion of our trade in every part of the
world, and for the defence of our domi-
nions in the Mediterranean, and in Ame-
rica, as well as at home, it must be al-
lowed, that such a war, su[A>oang the best
conduct on our side, would have been ex-
tremely heavy and dangerous ; and if it
had been left to the management of those,
who have hitherto managed with so little
success our war against Spain alone, we
should certainly, before wis time, have
been undone.
From hence we may see. Sir, that
though the emperor's death, at the tone it
happened, was unlucky for Europe, and
may, at last, nrove unlucky for this nation,
yet it suspended, or put w for a time, the
miminent danger we were then exfrnsed
to; but are we now free from this. danger?
Does not every man of conmum penetra-
tion foresee, that if Prance be allowed to
settiathe affiiirs rf Germany to her own
JSetoe Ml Ae CS^MMOfif {9H9
liking, this dai^ger wiH reGmr vfoa^ ua with
redoubled force ? She may then diotale to
most of the other states of Europe s she
may compel those that formerly would
have remianed neuter, to iom with Spain
and her against us ; and thus, unless we
submit to whatever France shall please to
frescribe, we shsU have not only France,
ut most of the states of Europe, united
with Spain in a war agaia^ us. Sudi a
war it would be impossible for us to sup-
port. We should then have no alterna-
tive : we must submit; and in such a case,
who can tell what sort of submiasion
France might require ?
This, Sir, is a most disagreeable, a most
melancholy prospect, and it becomes the
more so when we consider, that in the
present distressed condition of this na-
tion, and confiised state of Europe, it is
hardly possible to prevent the danger, or
to disperse the doud that hangs over us;
for unless we can break that confederacy
which France has, by our blunders, fouiid
means to form against the queen of Hun-
gary, I am afraic^ it will be impossible for
us to form anv counter confederacy ; and
considering tne present load of diebt wc
groan under, and die general uneasiness
uiereby occasioned, it will be impossible
for us to afford such a powerful assistance
to the queen of Hungary, as maj enable
her to make head against such a mighty
confederacy. Thus, Sir, I hope, I have
demonstrated, that at present we labour
under great difficulties, and that our af-
fiurs are in the utmost distress both abroad
and at home. This of itself is sufficient
for raiang a general suspicion against the
conduct of our ministers. From the many
expensive negodations we have of late
years carried on: From the many ex-
pensive and unprofitable treaties we have
concluded: From t];»e vast expence we
have put ourselves to, for giving weight to
those n^gociations, or fac enforcme the ob-
servance of those treaties, the peo^e of this
nation expected, thatthe liberties of Europe
would have been by this time secured, be-
yond a possibility of being attadcsd, and
the trade and navigation of this kingdom
secured beyond a possibility of being in-
terrupted; and, consequently, that &om
this time we might have disbanded our
armies, laid up our ^squadrons, disnussed
our ferdgn auxiliaries, and applied our-
sehres smcerdyand efectually to the pay-
ing off our debts, and abolidimg our taxes.
Tms, I say, the people expected: This
they had reason to expect ; and now, when
HI] rMbig to fh$ QmAie^qfiS^
Hheyfind AeoMdves dittppointed in erery
kM of tbese particulan, they cannot but
iQspect, they do most generaUy, and most
fioteDtly nupect, hem the wbdom and
iDtegntj of ino8e who, for 8o many yean,
kre had the direction of our public affiurs,
lad who hare never been refused any sum
tbej thou^t necessary for securing the
lucceii of their measures.
Ihe difficulties we labour under, the dis-
tressei we are drove to, and the danger to
whidi the 'I3)erties of Europe, and, con-
lequeDtly, the Jibertiea of this nation, now^
Fk exposed, may be owing to causes of a
dUfefot nature. Tbey xaaj be owing.
Sir, to the foDy or ambition of foreign
coum, or to events that could not be fore^
sees or provided against: It may appear,
dttt our ministers have done aU that human
vsdom could direct, for preventing these
&tal effects; but the present face of af-
imy both at home and abroad, affords
such I strong presumption against them,
thtt it is become the 4uty of parliament
to make an inquiry into their conduct.
If they are conscious oi no neglect, weak-
nea, or crime, ther will promote ^at in-
<pirj, they w31 assist us in every step that'
ii Decenary lor making that inquiry satis-
&ctoiy to the nation. If they oehave
otherwise, it wiQ ^d strength to the pre-
nnmtku against them, ana consequently,
oog&tto make us more zealous in perform-
isg our duty to our country.
Thos, 8v, if at all times, it ought to be
loobd ones amaxim, that all suchpqpers
of moaient as are laid before this House,
oagfat to be referred to a select committee,
^ maxim ought, in our present circum-
stances, to be most rdigiousljr observed,
aodtherefore^Ishall conclude with moving,
"* Thatthe several Papers presented to this
House <m Monday last, and, likewise, the
leveial Amen presented to the House
yoterdiy, by Mr. CopiiptroMer, be referred
to a Select Committee; and that they do
cmnmethesame, and report to the House,
what they find material m them.'**
^^'Oa the aist of January, PoheiMy
Bade tiie cdflbialad motion for refaniog to a
SwitCsmmittep the Papers relating to the
Wv, which had been already preoented to the
Hooae. Am tiiis motion involved in it nu-
chaigwa agiiost the condnct of the
Ifar.
A. IX 1749.
C«tt
necessity of a parHamentaiy
*V»y, and hmogfat on penonal inveqtives
H»Ht the minister, sir Robert Walpole took
^ "MirtMahlc shara in the debate, and was
yttd to the most anhnated exertions. In
^ hat effort, he is said by his friends to
Mr. Henrg TMam .*
Sir ; if a parliamentary inquiry into our
past conduct, could be carried on without
any interruption or prejudice to our future,
no man sliould be more ready than 1 to
agree toit : No man should be more zeal-
ous ^in promotmg it; because I am con-
vinced, it would terminate in a full justifi-
cation of thoselately concerned in our ad-
ministration, against all the aspersions and
calumnies that have been cast upon their
conduct Buta parliamentary inouiry into
the conduct of ministers alwavs nas been,
and always must be attended widi great
warmth; for tiie most innocent minister
will always have a party in parliament
zealous to condemn, and the most guilty
will generally have a party zedous to
acquit. This of course raises a warmth
witnin doora, and .this warmth within doom
will always occasion iieats ^nd animositiea
without, which may rise to «Qch a height
as to break out in a civil war. Of this we
had such a late instance, that it can escape
the notice of no gentleman in this House. .
I believe, few gentlemen will now pretend
to justify the conduct of those, who were
our ministers during the last four years of
queen Anne : I bdieve, most gentlemen
are now convmced, they were guilty of
very high crimes and misdemeanors ; and
yet, we all know, a parliamentary inquiry
mto their conduct, was the occasion of a
civil war in the kingdom, which might
have been fiEital to us, if we had at that
time been engaged in a forei^ war, or if
Europe had been in such a aituation as it
is in at present.
I had then, Sir, the honour td be a
member of this House, and I was zealous
for the inquiry then set on foot, because I
thought the ministers guilty, and because
I thought we had then an opportuni^ to
inquire into their conduct, without ex-
posiiu^ the nation to any foreign dangeSi
But &r as much as I waa convinced of the
misconduct of those ministers, if the nation
have eKoaeded himself, and evinced sueh a
oontammale knowledfa of foreign alBurs aa
astomshed the House. He was also ably de-
fended by Pelbam, Winnington, and sir Wil-.
ham Yonge; the question, however, would
have been carried but Ibr the influence of lord
Hartington, who brongbt over two IWy 1
hers, and by this means, to use the c
of sir Robert Wilmot, saved the eoi
Wilmot,
twenty-four tymnU! The -motion was nega-
tived by a majority of only three, in the fuUeot
house known for aaany years, for 609 mc
bera voted.
MS] 15 OSOS6B IL
had been at that tipM involftd in adaii-
Ssrous {breim war, or if the liberties of
arope had been as much in danger as
A^ are at present, I should have been
ibr suspending our resentnu^t against the
guilty, till we had fidly provided fi^r
Che safety of the innocent; and the erhat
shewed, that this sort of conduct would
have been the most prudent.
This ought alwavsi in my opimoo, to be
n rule fbr our conauct, even when we are
convinced that ministers are crimihal, or
«* Oo this qusstioB every exertion wss made
1^ oppoiition^ and every art aaed to secure a
miyonty. The purport of the intended mo^
tioB wss not previously known. Tbe minister
was taken unawares ; many of bis firieods had
retired ; many absented themselves by design ;
otherfy who were sent fbr in tbe couTBe of
the debate, declined, under various pretences,
naking their appearance, whfle all bis ^ppo*
nenls remained at their posti. Tbe efforts
were so great on both sides, that membsri
were brought in from tbe chamber of eiclt-
neis. Several voted in that ooaditioB on tbe
side of Imposition ; but some who intended te
have supported the minister were prevented
ftom appearing at the division. They bad
been placed in an adjoining apartment belong-
ing to lord Walpole, as auditor of tbe Ezche-
mier, which communicated mih tbe House.
The adversaries, aware of this ftot, filled tbe
kejf-hole of the door with dirt and sand,
wmeh prevented their admiesion into the
House tiU the division was over. On this
occasion, as general Churchill vras sitting
next to the prince of Wales, who was in
the House of Commons to bear the de-
bates, a member was brought in who bad lost
the use of bis limbs. «• So,'^ layt tbe prince,
** I tee von bring in the lame, the halt, and
the bfittd.*' •< Yes," replied the general, «« tbe
lame on our side, and the blind on youra."
The email majority in fiivonr of government,
notwithstanding aU the exertions made by tbe
minister, was so sure a signal of his defeat,
that a motion te address the king (or copies of
the memorials and letters, and other papers
sent to and from the king of Prussia, which
bad been rejected on tbe 18th of December,
by a naajority of 94, now passed without a di-
*i.imi » Coxe*s Measoirs of sir B. Walpole.
«< JsOQsry 33, 174t. My lord;
of the House of Commons vritt inform your
graoe of the extraordinary proesediegs iu that
Bouse oo the 81st instant. I must take tbe
liberty to congratulate your grace particularly
upon an event of that day, which cannot but
be very satisfiM^tory to yov, when two votss
would have certainly given to this natien ciie
and twenty tyrants. I hsve good resson to
believe it was entindy owing to m v knrd Bart*
iagtoatbet «r Thomss and sir /amse I^ow-
tber voted fbr their king and cottfttry, Merer
have bacA guiltf of somepMc^of miscsD*
duet; How much more ought it to bea
rule for our conducti when we are cob-
viaced of their iiiiiocence» or have but s
bare suqpidoa of their guilt. When a
parliameotary inquiry is set upi imioceDoe
floay be a safeguard^ but it is &r from
being a safeffuard in which a minister csn
securdy and auietly put hie trust He
must net sit witn his aruss across, and tnist
to the honesty of his ptosecatom and inn
partiality of his judges. He must be
was a plot better concealed. Some of sir Ro-
bert'sfhends actually went away eariy, net ex>
peeting any thing; others never came. Tbe
opposition were collected to a man, bdt I be-
lieve not above one and twenty knew for what.
8» 'William Gordon was brought in like s
corpse. Some thought it bad beee so oM
WOBMU in disguise^ having a white cloth rooad
his bead. C^ers^ who found him out, ex-
pected him to expire every moment. Other
incurables were introduced on their side. Mr.
Hopton, for Hefefbrd, was carried in with
crutches. There was one and one in tbe
same eenditiea on the ceuit side.
«« Wbea Mr. Pulleaay made the molioo,
your grace BMy imagine sir Robert dispatcbed
messengers to all oornsn. The three Wid
Beaucl^ks would not come,' becsuie tbe
duchess wu not buried ; Mr. Treby, Mr.
Thompson of Scarborough, Mr. Caswell, voe
of the Martins, and Mr. Ashe, were ill, and
could not stir out ; Mr. Bowles was forgot,
and sat diverting himself at Garrswav's
coflee-boose; Mr. Sheppard had that letj
morning asked leave of the House to go ioto
the eountry ht his health, and was gone.
Besides otners, whose nances 1 could sol
learn.
" Sir Robert exceeded bims^f : he piro-
culariy entered into foreign affairs, andcoD-
vinceu even bis enemies that be wss tho-
roughly msster of them, Mr. Pelhani, irith
the greatest decency, cut Pnlteney mto 1,000
pieoes. Sir Bobert actually dissedtd bin,
snd laid bis heart open to the view of tbs
House. Mr. Winougton, sir W. Vooge,
and H. Pos, spoke incooaparably well. I
must not foiget Mr. Coke, who, lam told,
spoke in a most sgreeable manner and with
great spirit. By an exact calculation, I am
told that of the 50 who were away, tbe court
has ar ; but I am afrakt will loss Hey-
don and aaelber double retnm. The snsy
comes in en Friday. It m thought the eouit
will carry it b^^a handsome mi^srity, Air
these times. As the bomb is burst, ssd so
mischief done, I hope the danger is ever ; m^
aAsr a proper ^uestiott bss bssa ssrrird by
iiAeeo or twenty, boom of tbe sons of Feifw
and othera will esrtamly desert astsrriiHr^*
quished .army.** Ooie's Walpole: Oorre-
spondsM^; sar Rabmt Wibnet mthsdefctM
IlevoflBbiie.
l^cUbl that BO flte evidence shall be
pi^or fiven against hiniy and diligent
glfspe^tieuB in detecting and expoeing
^ibenilit. Henusttakeeareto make
ll iBBOcence appear in ererjr ioatance
Ipeitis attadwd, and for this purpoar
I mjverj probably be obliij^ to die*
^ Mcrea which way be of great pe»
i|i» ta the nation. At the tame tnne*
linil in every step be watchful, lest any
ill ihottU be carried againet him by a
pm GBbai» and lor this Durpose he must
I^QSt^ apd ewnestly smidt the attend-
liarf dl hit friends. These considem*
jaN^ffry must shew, that during such an
0tfi DO administration can have leisure
ISiU the pidSilic bosiness as they ought ;
IdteaBsSi the necessity ministers are in
' dsei reduced to» of ditn^ng the
Mi of gover^unenty in order to justify
rcsadaet, maybe of Infinite and irre*
V pngodice to the p^blic ; therefore,
we ott^t to lay it down as a rule
oondocty never to consent to a
inquiry into the conduct of
biwminlesiwe be convinced,
MM of those concerned have been
ef very great crimes or nMe-
^eoemion rumour, or a bare suspicion,
general^ can be no sufficient
fiir setting upsodi an enquiry; be*
and) rumom and sosmdons are
agsiDSt the beat, as well as against
sot ministen. Nay, n good minis-
mom liable than a bad one to such
and suspidons. If he be frugal
public treasure, and cautious in
J public favours: if he prdeia me-
oiioQS modesty to clamorous unpudence,
EWqik raise to himsdf a great pumber
teniss; ibr eveiy man who is refused
fmkfhmwQT Jnmy, beoemes a secret
idnlned enemy to the minister, and of
amtcadeavours to propagate cdumnies
imUn; and the mmfortone is, that
loiHt impudent and damorous are ge»
bil|Fmsfet listened to by the untbinkmg
Htf mrnddnd. Thoi^ this be hy far
ttmsitaaiaeroas part'of mankind, yet,
itf^ Atn are noaw of them in this
HN^ aad Aeteibse, whatever rumours
fMpidims ma^ be apread witiioat doors,
y tiiey wBl not be.Kstened to here,
Mdisy appear to be /bunded upon in-
iMiis tt&> 'or very strong presump-
:|S4S ftolB, Sis, netwithstanaing the
ramsma that are nraai^ withoat
I ktpa never yet keiod a preef
fFar. A. D. 1742. [S19
oArndL of miy one criminal fact agdnst
those concerned in our administration;
and as to the presumptions that have been
suggested, I do not tnmk there is the least
foundati<mforany oneoftfaesL That this
nation labours under great difficulties, and
that the present posture of affiurs, both at
home or abroad, is far from being agrees
able, I shall readily grint; but to every
one who, with candour, examines the his^
tory of this nation, and of Europe, for
twenty years past, it must appear evident^
that neidier or these midbrtunes can justty
be imputed to any des^ or misconduct
in our ministers. Our debts were all con*
traeted lona before the present adanmstnu
tion bad a neing. At leasts if any new
debt has been contracted, a mudi greater
old «ie has been paid off; for ^en our
present ministers first came into power^
the nationd debt was larger than it is at
present^ and what was worse, our publio
credit; by an ill-managed prcnect, was ak
most en^irdy sunk. They, by dmir wis«
dom and good management, soon restored
the public credit of the nation, and ^ep
have since paid off as much of the puUm
debt as it was possible, without loading the
people with some new or additiond taxes*
If we had kept up no army; if we had
kept up no navy ; if. we had been put to
no expeooe by tJie ambitious prefects of
foreign princes, I shall admits Sir, that n
much Uu-ger share of our public ddia
might have been pdd off, and, perhfla%
many of our heavy taxes sJ[>didiea. &it
will any one say, that at any tiin6 for this .
twenty years past, it would have been pm*
dent or safe to didband oar altny ? Will
any one say, that* we ought to have lefk
our navy to rot aad fidl to decav ? Will
any one say, now that we so sensibly fed m
want of seamen, diat we ought not dwi^s
to keep alarge number of seamen in pay f
Will any one say, that whdi we wera
threatened with an attack, we eug^t net
to have provided for our defence ? By so
doing, Sur, we have dways prevented the
atta^ and thereby preserved our domes*
tic tnmqnillity fiir these twentjr years i»ast {
and Burdy it wfll be allowed, that it is
both sdbr and cheaper to prevent than to
repel an invadon.
Therefore, Sir, if a greater share of our
public dd)t has not been pdd off; If imne
of our heavy taxes have been abolished, ia
is not owing to any mismanagement as out
ministers, but to tiie oublic necessities^
whidi annuafly required a larger expeneo
than had been foreseen. If efurmiaistaa
.fc^::A\
M7] 15 GEORGE IL
hni^tkm upon tbem to be sole jodget of
tfiote neoewifieB, there muriit Imve been
lenie pretence fcr finding ftolt with their
conduct; bat they have regularly laid
these necessities fa!efore . the parliament,
and have never pat the nation to one
shilling expence, but what has been
previously authorised, or afterwards ap-
proved of by a majority in both Houses;
therefore an enquiry into dieir conduct
iqion this head, may properly be called
an enquiry mUr the coiiauot of parlia*
meat, and if you diould give sentence
against the fi>rmer, it wiU be a condemna-
tion of the latter, which, with regard to
Ae respect due toparliament, may have a
very bod effect upon all degrees of men in
thisldogdonLi
Now, Sir« with resard to the present
posture of afibirs at home and abroad, I
ahaU {[rant, it is a misfortune to this nation
to be involved in a war with Spain: IshaU
grant it is a misfortune to Europe, to have
ao many of its princes united for destroy-
ing that balance of power upon whidi their
own independency, at least the indepen-
dency of all of thmn but one, most aoso-
hi^y depends.^ But can either of these
misfortunes be imputed to any misconduct
in our ministers ? Our being involved in a
war with Spain, is owing to nothing but
the pride, haughtiness, and obstinacy of
that nation. Did our ministers advise his
mi^ty to declare war against Spmn with-
out a cause ? Did they predpitato the na-
tion into that war, without having first
tried every method for obtaining satisfiic-
tion by peaceable means? We all know
4hat their backwardness in commencmg
hostilities was exclaimed against by many
in this nation, and even by diose who now
endeavour to load them widi the misfor-
tune of our being invdved in war. Tlius,
Sir, if ministers pursue oacific measures,
their conduct is found fault with, ami if
they pursue warlike measures their con-
duct IS found fiiult with ; if they provide
for our defence at home, and thmoy pre-
vent an attack, their conduct is found nmh
with, on account of tiie expence ; and if,
by their neglecting to provide for our de-
fimoe, the nation should be invaded, their
conduct would certainly, and, I am sure,
with more reason, be found ftult witih.
This, Sir, makes me think, it. is not so
SMieh thur conduct, as their continuinff to
be our ministers, that is the real ground of.
compiaint; and this will be a ground of
complaint against all future, as well as
4gmst our present ministers; for no man
' Debate ik the Comfium [S4I
that serves the crown wiO give up bis em<
ployment, «s long as the rang inclmes he
diould keep it, and desires nothing of him,
inconststent with his honour, or the goo^
of his country, nHiich, it is well known, hii
present majesty wiH never desire of aoj
man that serves him ; and this, perh^
makes gentlemen so fond of getting ion
empkiyment, bat at is, in my optnioD, ai
ungrateful return in gentlemen, to eodea
vour to distress his majesty's aSuit, ii
(Hrder to force themselves into his service
Thus, Sk, I tiimk, it must ^pear, th«
no one who has the honour or having i
share in his majesty's oounals, can \n
blamed for the misrortone of oar bein|
involved in a war with Spun, and as littlf
can they be Mamed fiir the present ud
happy state of affiriie in Eorope, which i
entirely owing to one of these two causes
either to a fioai, I may say, frantic ambitio!
in some of the princes m Gennanj, who
rather than not extend their dominions
seem resolved to render tiieamelves de
pendent upon tho'crown of FVance; or itt
owingtoan unaccountable obstinacy in tlv
court of Vienna, who, rather than do jnstia
to their neighboucbg prinoea in Germany
seem resolved to bring themsdves, an(
the whole Oeitean empire, into a sort o
subjection to his most Christian majestj
Which of these two causes the presen
misfortune of Europe is owing to, 1 sha]
not pretend to determine ; but let it b(
which it wOl, our ministers caDoot bi
blamed. It was not, it cannot be sup
posed to have been in tiieir power to go<
vem the ambition of the princes of Ger
many, or to overcome the obs^nacy of tlu
court of Vienna.
I hope I have now shewn. Sir, tba
neither the difficulties we labour under
nor tile present dangerous situation o
affieurs, can afibrd any presumption of mis
conduct in those, who for some time past
have had the honour of being in bis m
jesty's councils; and as no particula
crime has yet been dmrged asamst tbem
nor the least proof o&red of any ftctt 1
there are any suspicions without doori
those su^Mcions can have no solid fouoda
tion, and ought not therefore to have sue!
w^ht irithm doors, as to lead us into i
paifiamentaiy inquiry, which is alwav:
troublesome, «id, at this juncture, woul(
be extremdy dangerous. If this natioi
be in distress, if the affiurs of Europe b«
Hi distress, as they certainly are, it fioou^^
be an aigutnent with us to avoid all per
sonal altercations and animosities, and tc
P] rdating io the Comkiet of ike War
mte beaitOj among eurselves^ both m
wmcil and aetion^ for retrieving affiun
N)Ch alvoad and at home. The caae of
hk naticn, the caae of ^uropei is not yet,
bank God! so deraerate, but that both
My be restored, it proper remedies be
peedQ J mlied. Oar jpubUc credit is yet
DftfloumuDg condition: We may yet
iiise large sums for the support of a ne^
xssary war ; and if the tranquiUity of
Burape be restored, and established upon
I solid foimdation, we may soon pay off
)id anearsy as well as what we may be
to contract for that salutary pur-
The confederacy formed against
mequeenof Hiineary is so unnaturaS, that
it muit of itself be dissolved, unless the
priDces of Germany be kept firm toFrance,
Ij seeing it» impossible or dangerous to
break from her. This may be prevented,
if ve immediately unite amongst ourselves,
lad interoose with the whole strength of
die Britiih nation; but if, like ignorant
ad coDtentious physicians, we sit accusing
a» another of mal-practicei the patient
ifiT expire in the interim.
I must, therefore, conjure gentlemen to
Lover all personal anhnosities, and
of nothing but ^ving his majesty
tbt advice, and those aids, which may be
dMigfat pr<^r and necessary for pro-
wiing B^uost the calamity that threatais
u. ifanything has been done amiss, we
nay soon find a proper time for inquiring
atoit,bat the present is farfiK>m being
ip; and if no immediate inmiiry be de-
%&ed,we have no occasion for referring
atj papers to the consideration of a select
conmittee; for I cannot agree with my
MQourable friend in thinkmf, that every
af<»taDt paper, or jparcel of papers, that
«e,or may be laid before the House, should
K Kiared to a select cmnmittee. If this
*^ laid down as a rule for our conduct,
V6 ihoukl have time to do nothing, but to
■arand consider tba reports from such
^onutteei. It would therefore be ira-
NWe to observe the rule, and it has
*»er been the practice. When gentle-
•Ji* curiosity prompts them to desire a
api of any piqpers of state, they move
w having them hud before the House,
•JW: motion is always complied with,
•^consistent with the public safety.
^^ the paoers thus called for are laid
^ the table, they examine them: If
^ find nothing material, their whole de»
llpttftkQirered; but if they find any thing
«ej ihink worth the notice of the House,
^'"^Jtcquaint tb^ House with what they
A. D. 1742. [350
have observed, and if a amjority be of the
same opinion, the House either enters iota
the immediate considerati<Hi thereof, ^hi^
they may easily do, beeause the papera
are upon the table; or refi^ the whole to
the consideration of a committeey perh^
a select committee.
This, Sir, is tiie usual method of pro*
ceedixiff in such oases, and as no observa^
tions £ave been made upon any ci the
papers referred to in this motion, nor any
one fact mentioned from them for inducing
us to take any of them into our considam-
tion, I must suppose, that those gentlemen
who have perused them, for I confess I
have not, nave found nothing in them,
thev think worth the notice of ue House ;
ana if they have not, I can see no reason
why we diould give any committee the
trouble to peruse and examine them*
But, bendes seeing no reason for re*
fering these papers to a select committee,
there are, I tnink, strong reasons against it.
If this motion should be complied with, it
will immcKliately npread an opmion abroad^
that instead of takuig proper measures for
the time to come, we are going to enter
upon an inquiry into past measures ; this
will certainly raise divisions amongst us,
and may produce a civil war in the king-
dom, or at lea^t a breach between his ma-
jesty and his. parliament, which will of
course disable us from giving our friends
abroad any assistance, or interposing any
manner of way in the aflSrirs of Europe;
and the consequence of such an opinion's
being spread abroad, may be most fatal.
The princes now united in an alliance with
France, will then see it impossible to break
off from that alliance: the other prince^
and states of Europe will see it impossible
to form any confederacy, capable of giving
a check to the designs ot France: the
(}ueen of Hungary, oespairmg of any re-
lief or assistance, will immediately submii
to such terms as France shall please to
prescribe ; and the court of France, being
tree from the fear of controul, will set no
bounds to their ambition. Suppose their
present chief minister should be moderate
in his views ; suppose he has no other in-
tention than to reduce the power of the
House of Austria, without adding to tho
power of the House of Bourbon, yet in
such a case, it would be impossible tot him
to stem the torrent of French ambition, or
to govern a court where that passion has
always so mudi prevailed.
The spreading such an opinion abroad
is, therefore, Sr, what we ought most
SBI]
15 OEORGB n.
carefttfflj to preveak; but if dik modoii
ilMOld be agreed to, itwould beimpoMible
Ce prarent a most strict inqoirjy and a
AMMt violent proaecution't being set on
l«lot» There are many ^tlemen, I hope,
both within doOrs and without, of a mode*
nte disposition, and such as have a greater
i«|^ud for the safe^of the public &an for
anj personal rese^taient. Those gentle*
men may, as yet, be able to ^em and
tMiderate the temper of the nation, or, at
least of this Houito} but if a select com*
niittee were once named, I am afraid, it
would be out of their power. That com-
oaittee weidd think it incumbent upon Uiem
to dki something: The papers now pro-
posed to be referred to them would eive
them an inclination to see others, and those
again would make them think it necessary
to see more, till they had got all the state
papers, even the most secret, before them ;
and in order to succeed in all their mo-
tions for this purpose, and to have their
report approved <h, they would endeavour
to raise, and would probably succeed in
ndsmg a most violent and revengeful mrit,
bodi without doors and within, which
m%ht fall heavy upon some innocent men,
as well tt upon tne guilty. The former,
his majesty would certainly, irom his
. known justice and resolution, endeavour
to protect, and what might be the conse-
quence of such a contest God only knows.
Thus, Sir, as I can see no reason for
this motion: as, I think, it would be at-
tended with the most dangerous, the most
flttal consequences, I must therefore be
against it, and hope the hon. gentlemen
If lU not insist upon their motion ; for even
Iheir insisting upon it mav have a very
bad effect upon his majesty's negociations
abroad.
«
. Mr. Alexander Hume CamjpbeU :
Sir; the hon* gentleman who spoke
last, has made me consider the motion
now before you with grsat attention, and
that the House wmf do the same, I desire
it may be again rsad by the derk at your
table. [The Motion being read, hie went
on thus.] I cannot ooaosive, Sir, how the
hon. gentleman could from this motion
take occasion to talk of inquiries or per-
sonal pioues and nesentmeitts. U mere
any worn, is there any expression in the
motion, that seems to iasmuate, as tf an
ki^irv were intended, or that can be
thougnt to carry «ny personal resentment f
If an hon, gentleman near him had tidked
m If on thb ^mrtieQ, I sik>eld ael Jhave
DAaU m He CoMmom {Sfy
been surprised, becanae, IbeBete, there!
nothing he dreads so modi ; and whd
one's mind is strongly posacaaed with tfa
foar of any thing, me imagination ofte
presents the phantom iriien mere is no rei
appearance ; but as 1 am convinced, th
hon. gentleman who spoke last can ^vs
no mquiry, with respect lo himeclf atleaj
I kus amaised how this question came i
present to his view the phantom of i
mquiry.
Sir, there is nothing more in this que
tion, nor, I believe, any tlung more ii
tended by it, than a proper examipatio
of those p^rs, which were certainl
called for with die design of having tfad
properiy examined ; ana as they cann^
oe properiy examined without referrii^
them to a select committee, I hope to shei
such reasons for our complying with tli
modon, as cannot be supposed to procee
from any personal resentment, but I mts
be^ leave to say a word or two about iij
quiriesin geneial, which the hon. genti^
man has rmresented in so hideous a lighl
He has told us, Sur, that parlianiaitary k
quiries always raise divisions, heats, as
animosities, and have sometimes raised
civil war in the kingdom. On the coi
trary, I wiO venture to affirm, from ih
whole tenor of our history, tlmt the pr^
venting or opposing of a parliamentary iij
ouiry has always had that effect ; and th^
Uie giving wav to a parliamentary i^
quiry, when the majority of the natio
osU^ for it, never raised any. The r<
hellion at the beginning of the late reigi
was not occarioned by the partiamentar
inquiry then set on foot, but qy a Jacobit
spirit which at that time but too univa
sally prevailed in the nation.^ Whaterc
transgressions the former mmisters ha
been guilty of, they had found means t
set themselves at the head of a very ni
merous and powerful party in die natiot
who were attachecl to them, not by br
bery and corruption, or any selfish vie*
but from a real, though very wrong pnr
ciple. That party' wanted nothing but
head for fljring to arms, and the inquiry
indeed, fumi&ed them with iriiat the
wanted. But is this tibe case at present
Can it be said, that our presient minister
have any party attached to them fror
principle i They have no party but sue
as are attached to them fi^om motives <
self-interest, and as soon as yon take froi
them the distribution of the loaves an
firiies, their fUUowera wiO desert them a
course.
35S] rdatmgiothe Conduct afike War.
We bs?e therefore. Sir, noClun^ to fi»r we knoirf
from fletting up a parUameotary iB(}uirjr> into the
bot a great deal from oar neglecting it.
The wMe nation, at least all those who
dare ^peak their minds, call loudly for it.
A. D. 1742. [S54
how, without first examining
present state of aflBurs both
abroad and at home ? Would not a physi*
dan be a madman, to prescribe to a pa^
tient, without, first examining into tha
sfxl if It should be prevented, or defeated state of his distemper, the causes from
by s court majority in parliament, it will —^'-^ -" — ^ -*^ ^-- -•^-^ ^-^
raise s general disaffection to our govern-
meat. Will our friends abroad pot any
trost or ooofideooe in such a government ?
Ctn our enemies dread any thihff from
•uch a government ? Sir, it is well known,
both abroad and at home, that an unpo-
pular government in this kingdom never
Mf Dor, 1 hope, ever can act widi vigour
or spirit. I say, 1 hope, it never can ; for
this must be the case as long as there is
the least relic of liberty amongst us, AH
those fttal consequences therefore, which
the hon. gentleman has been pleased to
progTMKlicate from our entering upon an
inqmiy into our late conduct, may more
fitturaily, and inore reasonably be prog-
nosticsted, nay, must necessarily ensue,
from our not giving the nation the satis-
faclioft thw expected from this new par-
liameDt. Our friends abroad will despair :
our eoemies will rejoice. For this rea-
son. Sir, so for as I can judge at present,
I shall give my vote for ^n inquiry as soon
tt it shall be proposed ; and I shall be for
carryiog it through with all possible
Btrictneas, without any personal prejudice.
I have no resentment against any but
tliose who are suq)ected of being the
toemies and betrayers of their country,
and against such 1 shall always have a re-
KQtmeDt, till I see them cleared by an
West and fair inquiry.
But 1 b^ pardon. Sir, for taking up
» much of your time upon this subject ;
ibr the present question is not about an
u>quiry, it has nothing to do in the de-
^; modi less with admonitions against
personal piques and animosities ; for from
what is DOW proposed, no man can fear a
personal attack, unless he be conscious,
5*»t from these papers something criminal
o hb conduct may be discovered; and I
bope no member of this House will refuse
doing his duty towards his sovereign, for
. fear some crime should thereby be disco-
vered in any minister. I say, doing his
««ty tovrards his sovereign. Sir, for whe-
^ we shall do so or no, is tlie questiob,
"wi the only question now before us. His
'^e«ty, in ins most gracious speech from
"^ throne,, has expressly required our
^p^l and assistance ; can we give him
^r widiout first Imowisg how i Can
[VOLJtlL]
which it arose, and the remedies that had
before been applied i This is our case at
present. His majesty has desired our
counsel: if he had not, we are bound to
give it, considering the present * melan-
choly state of affiiurs ; and tor this purpose
we ought to examine into it as narrowly
as we can.
1 have not. Sir, perused many of the
papers mentioned in this motion : neither
shall I, unless this motion be agreed to ;
for who woidd peruse such piles of papers^
without an expectation at least, that his
peruaal might probably be attended with
some good efiect. But from the very
titles of them, I can see, that it is abso*
lutely necessary to have all these papers,
at least, nant>wly looked into, berore we
can know any thing about the political
distemper which at present threatens the
liberties of this nation, as well as the li-
berties of Europe, with an immediate
dissolution. We are by treaty obliged to
assist the queen of Hungary against the
French and Bavarians, because they di-
rectly attack the Pragmatic Sanction ; but
we are not obliged by treatjr to assist her
against the king of Prussia, because he
asserts only what he pretends to be the
ancient riehts of his house* We are
therefore noth in honour and justice
obliged to inquire into the foundation of
this dispute ; for if Prussia's claim be just,
and the aueen of Hungary obstinately re-
fuses to 00 him justice, it will free us from
the engagement we are under, of assisting
her against the French and Bavarians;
because, though we have iparanteed the
^Pragmatic Sanction, yet if she by her
obstinacy makes it more diflkult and dan-
gerous for us to perform .that guaranty,
than it would have, been otherwise, it
frees us both in equity and honour from
that engagement.
This, Sir, must shew how absolutely
necessary it is for us to examine strictly
into the contents of the letters, memorial^
and piapers presented to us, before we
can give any advice to his majesur, with
re^rdto the present state of a&irs in
Europe ; and particularly. Sir, I mtiat
mention the treaty between his majesty
and the queen or 9ungary, dated at
Hanover, June 13» 1741. Study thia
«S5J 15 OBOBGB U.
ireaiy» with trrery pa|per» prerioua md
cofueoueDt, relating to it« oitgdt to be«x*
aBiinea in the strieteBt maniMr, befiu» w«
can judge how mattert aland between ut
end the queen of Hungary*
Then» Sir , with regard to our war with
Spain, as there have been many dinutea
between France and us, on acoount of that
war, and as its continuance verymueh
depends upon the impartial at well as neu-
tral behaviour of the French, we ought
certainly to exaniDe carefully the papen,
before we ofier any advice to hie majesty,
relating to the future conduct of the war.
The case may stand between the king of
Prussia and queen of Hungary, so as to
free us from any obligation to assist her ;
but if it should appear, that the French
have assisted the Spaniards as much as
fthsj oottld in an underhand manner, we
may from thence judge, that they will de*
clare openlv against us, as soon as they
have settled the affidss of Gersianv to
their rnind^ This should malm us, without
any other consideration, resolve to assist
the queen of Hungary in the most stre-
nuous manner, let the conseauence be
what it wilL Nay, 1 do not know, but
that it should make us immediatelv de-
dare war against France ; for it would be
better to declare against her, whilst she is
engiiged in war wiUi the queen of Hun-
gary, than to wait lor her declaring against
us, after she has reduced the queen of
Hungary to her own terms.
These arguments, i hope, the hon.
gentleman cannot say proceed from any
personal resentment, it is not possibfe
u>r any one to suppose, that a parliamen-
tary prosecution would be the conse-
quence of this motion, without first sup-
posing, that our ministers have been guilty
of some criminal sort of conduct ; and
this is a supposition which I shidl not
niake, lest the hon. gentleman Aould say,
it proceeds from particular prejudice:
surely the parliament may oTOr advke,
and take the proper methods for being
able to do so, without setting up an in-
quiry. None of the argupoents he has
made use of a^nst an bquir]|r can, there-
lore, operate m the least agamst this mo-
tion, which tends merely to enable us- to
perform, as we ought, that duty his ma-
jesty has required of us; and the sooner
we set about the performance of that duty,
it will be the b^ter both for ourselves
and our friends. The pubUc afEsrs of
thi&nation hipve, for many years past, been
aoiely. directed by his snajesty^i infiwior
DebaU in ike Oommom
[3H
councils, for his great and siipreniecoun*
cil has never once ofeied an;^ advice, bot
audi as was dictated b^ the minister: both
the affidrs of diis nation, and the siun
of Europe, are at last brought into the
utmost distress : whether the advice his
nujestv has received from lus inferior
councuB has any way contributed to this
distress, I shaU not pretend to detennine;
but it is certain, their advice has not pre*
vented it, nor have they awtied so mock
as one remedy, though the distress has
been apparent for above this twdvemoDth.
It is therefore hi^ time for his majesty's
great council to interpose with its aidvibe*
From such an interposition our friends
will conceive hopes, our enemies appro*
hensions.
This, Sir, makes me extremdy soK*
oitous about the success of this motioD;
because the fiite of Europe, as well ss of
this nation, in a great measure, depends
upon it. If this motion be agreed to, I
shall expect to see the queen ^ Honguy |
continue to resist the torrent of enemies
that have broke in upon her, with that
surprising firmness or mind she hss hi*
therto manifested : if this motion should
be rejected, ef^cially if by a grest su*
jority, I fear, it may have a most mis-
chievous efiect upon her councils, by
making them despair, and consequently
submit; 1 shall therefore heartily givt
my affirmative to the question.
Mr. Winnington :
Sir ; whatever gentlemen may pretend,
it is evident, that the motion now under
our consideration, must fnroduce an en*
qoiry, and a very djeneral one too. You
are desired to appoint a select committee,
and, I suppose, tne next motion wiH be to
make it a secret one; to do what? Toexs-
mine the several papers mentioned in the
motion, and to report what they ma^ think
material in Uiem. Is not this a motion for
an enquiry into the a&irs which those
papers reli^ to ? It is certainly therefore
a motion for a particular encfuiiy. Bat
can any one imagine the enquiry will cesse
there ? An enquiry into those affiiirs wiH
naturally, and even necessarily, produce
an enquiry into other affidrs, and those
again into others ; so that the enquiry willt
at last, become general, and may extend
itself fiirtiher back than most people now
dream of; for there is such a concatenstioD
between state afiaus, domestic and for^[n,
precedent and subseqottit, that it is im*
possible to judge of one without athorougfa
»T]
rdaUMg taike Omdmt ofthe War.
A.B« n^
im
insist itttoail the reBt» till you arriTe it « *
certain ciius, when the whole affiiirs of the
Mtioa began to take a ne# turn, which
probabl? will be as far back as the acces*
aoD of his hilemajestv to die throne.
^VheCher we *cati find twenty*one per-
sons in this House, fit to be intrusted mth
sll the MGietB of our govemmeBt, is what
I reiy nach question^ but ihk I aas sme
of, tbst ivhen a secret committee ^is once
Dtoiedt sodinrested with the uauid powess,
aoooecantdll howfiurtheywdUgo. The
nnnd of man is naturally curious, and fond
of dinsg into secrets, especii^v when they
think they may thereby raise4heir charac-
ler, pursue their interest, or gmtify their
raentment. We ouiy therefore suppose,
(bat (his secret committee will extend
tiwireDfairies aa &r as possible, and that
JBCfcry repoK ihey make, they wiU refer
it to lone affiur not yet enquh-ed into.
Hw will pre them 41 pretence for desiring
la extenaoa of powier, and as the ma|oritf
of the House wiU probably be as cunous
» they, their desire will be readily granted.
Thnsthe House* instead of putting a stop
to their progress, will probably eaconnige
it, sad his majesty can put an end to it no
other wajT thni by a disaoiution or proro-
IBiioD, either at which would threw all
tlungB into coofiBion* From whence we
n^iee, that our agreeing to this motion
■lilt Deoes§arDy termmate in a general
oquify into the conduct of our pumic af-
^n, for God knows how many yean past ;
aid this, besides discovering iQl the secrets
ofoareovemment to our enemies, would
ttniii^ raise great animosities and heart-
kmings amongst i^s, which at a tiaae
vheo we are in open war with Spain, aad
vhen the liberties of Europe stand so
Bach in need of our assistance, mi^t be
'(tended with consequences which I trem-
ble to think oC
Advil war, Sir« is in itsdf amost terri-
Ueeiil, but conodering the present cir-
i of thiOM, that would be one of
the leait evils we should have to finur ; for
vhile we were engaged in cutting one ano-
tkei duoata, & liberties of Europe
*"dd be undone, and die nation itsdf
*^ ftll a fny to its most ancient and
BQitiafeterBte enemy. That an enquiry
ate the past conduct of our publici&irs
]|^haveao^*teBdenGy,iias,I think,
bNBCfnfiessed by thoae who have spoke
a&rmir of this motion. It has been al-
^ that the inqiHiraC the beginning of
^htekiiig*B leign, furnished a head for
"> JHwfcrtiJ party ; <and dMt tbb was
the cause ofthe rebellitmmuatlikelrise b^
allowed, for without a head, the disailected,
or if you dleaae, the party attached to the
former administration, could never have
had recourse to arms. How are we sure,
that an enquiry at tliis time may not pro-
duce thesameefeot^ It m ^aHsdiotum to
sajr, that ilo man is attached to our present
amninistration but from tnotives of ael&
interest! I tni^t aswdl say, that none
but Jacobites and republicans are against it
All those who approve of our public
measures, and are conviticed that nothing
has been done amiss, must be attached to
the gevemment from a principle of justice,
and would, nay ought to stand up against
their being unjustly condemned by a pr^
vailinff faction in patliament ; we are not
thererore to appose, that our present mi-
nisteis would be deserted by all their
friends, upon a censure's being unjustly
passed agabst them in parliament. And
as secret committees generall v pique them-
selves upon finding fatdt, and upon getting
their opinioa approved of by a majority,
such a censure would probably be the coti-
sequence of an enquiry, which miriit ptit
the friends of our mmisters upon derending
them by arms, since they found they
could not defend them by a majority of
voices in parliament.
To this I must add. Sir, the danger of
his majesty^s being prevailed on to thiakt
that the proeecation of his ministers pro-
ceeded from a Jacobite or republican spi-
rit in parliament, and that though the at-
tack was first made upon his mmisters, it
was principally designed against himself^
or against the most eslentiu prerogatives
of his crown. This belief his majesty may
the mfure easilv be brought into, firom tfa!e
example of uie parliament of the year
164a That parliament, or at least the
principal leaders of it, had certainly, from
thever^ beghantng, a design against the
crown Itself, but they coverSd tteir deswn
under the cloak of a desire to punish guiitjr
ministers, and a seal for that very consti-
tution which they intended to destroy.
They attached the king's ministers, and
those ministers, perhaps, desOrved the at*
tack, but the consequence shewed, that
their chief design was against the crown*
In this, it is now certain, they were en-
couraged by the court of Franee, and some
of thra, perhaps, were bribed by French
gold. May not the same diing happen
again? Maynotthe majority of this House
be influenced by a Jacobite or reimhlican
spirit^ supported by flench promises mi
SS9] 15 GEORGE IL
FVenchgoM? If this should happMi to be
the cne, his majesty weald be obliged te
defend himself end his ministen by foroe
oferms; and sdppose this were not really
the case« 3^ if his majesty supposed it
were, the efiect would 6e the same.
We riiould therefore, Sir, be extremely
cautious of gomg upon an enquiry into the
conduct of ministers, ui^ess we liaye some
very strong pfroofe of their being guilty,
ana sodi as may give our sovereign reason
to think they are so. Such proob aie ne^
cessary not only in justice to our ministers,
who ought not to be subjeeted to the
trouble and danger of a trial, without any
sort of proof, but also ki respect to our
sovereign, and in order to prevent his hav-
ing any 8U8fH6ion, that the enquiry pro-
c^ds from disaffection to him, or from a
concealed design against his crown and
dignity. Such a caution is necessary at
all times, but especially at present, on ac-
count of the circumstances of our affliirs,
both domestic and foreign. With regard
to our domestic affiiirs, it is well known,
that there is still a very strong spirit of
Jaoobitism in the country, and therefbre,
when a spirit of enquiry prevails in parlia-
ment, the king has reason to believe it pro-
ceeds from a spirit of Jacobitism, unless by
the proofs upon which that enquiry is
founded, he should be convinced, that
there are ver^ good reasons to suspct;t his
ministers having been guilty of misconduct.
Then with regard to the circumstances of
our affiurs abroadr we are in open war with
Spain, and upon very bad terms with
France, because of her apprehensions lest
we should defeat her ambitious designs in
Europe, by giving effectual assistance to
the queen of Hungary. A dissension be-
tween' his majesty and his parliament
would prevent our lieing able to prosecute
the war against Spain with vigour, or to
give any disturbance to the projects of
France: it is therefore the interest of
both, to raise, if possible, such a dissen-
sion ; and for that purpose to procure an
attack Upon the best ministers of the
crown. This his majesty has, at this time
especially, great reason to be jealous of;
and if he should see any of his ministers
attacked in parliament without proof, with-
out so much as an allegation of any parti-
cular criminal feet, would not he have
great reason to conclude, that the attack
proceeded from French and Spanish gold,
and that according to the old maxim,
mincipiis obsta^ he was obliged, both for
liis own safety, and the safety rf hia king-
domS| to stifle it in its infancy.
DdkttemikeCommmi [S60
But die inquky now proposed is not, it
•ems, with a design to attack any of hia
majesty's minvtera, or to diaoorer miy
crimes or oversighta in their conduct, but
merdy to emMe us to give his majesty
our counsel and advice upon the present
posture of alBurs. Sir, if the advocate
for this motion have such a knowledge of
oar ancient constitution as they pretend,
they must knowj that to counsel or advise
is the proper business of the other House;
our bittinesB is to consent : our very vrriu
shew, that this is our properprovince ; and
ther^Gsre, I think, we ought net to be for-
ward in oiiutng our advice, except when it
is pavtieolarly and expressly aAed by bis
majesty. In his Speech from the throne his
majesty has, it is true, told both Houses,
for this part of the speech is addreaaed to
both, that the posture of aAurs makes our
coubsel and assistance necessary. Whe-
ther these two words ought to be taken
joindy or separatdjr is the question ? Ac-
cording to our ancient constitution, they
ought to be taken separately : the word
counsel ought to be supposed to be directed
te the other House, and the word Meist-
ance to this. The Peers are to advise tmA
measures as they think neeessavy: the
Commons are to assist by granting such
sums as are necessary for carrying those
measures into execution. But suppose the
words were to be taken jointly, we are not
from hence to conclude, that we are to de-
termine what points we are to give our ad-
vice upon. We ought to suppose, that bis
majesty will af^rwards communicate to
us, by message, the points upon which he
desires our advice ; and when he does bo^
he will certainly order all the neccesaiy
papers to be laid before the Hooee, or u
they are of so secret a nature that they
ought not to be laid before such a numer-
ous assembly, he will desire us to appoint
a secret committee for mspecting such
papers as he may think fit to communicate.
To wait for such a message would be act-
ing in our proper sphere, and with due re-
spect to our sovereign, agreeably to our
ancient and real constitution. To act
otherwise, would be a breach of our duty
to our sovereign, and rach an incroach-
ment upon our constitution, as might at
this juncture be of the most dangerous
consequence to the liberties of Europe,
as well as the liberties of our native
country.
Afler what I have said. Sir, I believe, I
may freely declare, that I neither think it
my duty, nor do I think ( Jufve ai^ call te
961] rJatn^ioikiCaiuhcfffihe
esume haw afidn stand between tu «nd
the ({oeeQ of Hongaiyy-and much ktt be-
tween her and the king of Prussia ; nor^
I think we eogfat to eicamine how matters
stsod between France and us with regard
to our war with Spain. When his mmesty
doifes oar advice, it will then, and not
tOt then, be necessary to examine the
papers already kid before us, or sodi as
mj hereafter be kid before us, rdating to
anj of the points upon which that adTice is
deaied; and if his nu^ty should reqatre
it, but not otherwise^ 1 shall be foe ap-
poistiiig a srieet and secret eammittee
ibroamining into such papers as his ma-
jeKj tells OS are not proper tobedivtilged
to die whde Home.
Thus, Sir, it must uipear, that if the
motkn now before us be designed as a
foandstkm for an im^iry into the conduct
of otf ministerB, it ought not to be com*
piied with ; and ^ it be designed oidy as a
ftep towards enabling us to give his ma-
)erty cor advice, it is too earl^. Letusexa*
nine it therefore in what hght we will, it
appears to be improper. 'Diis b my sin-
cere opinion of it, and for this reason, I
kpe tne hon. gentfeman will excuse me,
if 1 give ray negatire to his motion.
Sir Watkin WHliaiM Wt^n :
Sr ; if the House were to be directed
bjmdi reasoning as an hon. gentleman
hs made use of against this motion, we
ibedd never inquire into the conduct of
aiy minister, nor into the state of any
piblic afiur, foreign or domestic, but when
the mmister should please to give us lea^e ;
lay minister. Sir, for there has always
been s sort of gentlemen in this Houses
who oake use oi the word sovereign in-
arnd of minister, in order to giro an ap*
pearance of reason to an argument which
*<inU otherwise ^pear in itself ridiculous.
To oonfirm what I say, I shall repeat the
a]gmBeots which the hon. gentleman has
nade 086 of, and by substituting the word
nmister, whidi is the only proper word to
^ oisde use of in this House, when we
^ of any public affiiir, instead of the
void fovereign, you will then see hk ar-
SVMBis in their true light.
He am, we ought never to inquire into
tW conduct of mimsters, or to speak more
Pi^riy, of one sole minister, unless we
vve tuch proo6 i^inst him as must con-
^e that minister of his having been in
w wrong; and the reason for this, he
"*y*iS|leBt that minister should suspect,
* ittlwr pretend) that the inquiry into
War. A. D. 1742. [9fi9
his c<»duct proceeded from a jaeebite or
republican spirit, or from the influence of
foreign gold. Sir, upon such a principle
could the parliament ever inquire into the
conduct or any minister i A minister may
be conscious of his crhnes or misconduct ;
but could the parliament, previous to any
inquiry, ever have such proe& against him,
as would induce him to confess nis hxvhg
been weak or criminal ? If the weakness
of his conduct were from its effects appa-
rent to the whc^e nation, he would pre*
tend, that those effects proceeded from
accidents that could not oe foreseen nor
provided against, or from the ambition,
obstinacv» or weakness of foreign courts,
and not nrom any weakness in the measures
he had pursued. Suppose we had positive
evidence against him: suppose we had
letters under his hand, for proving hk
having been guilty of the most treasonabk
practices; a guilty minister wo«dd pretend,
that the letters were forged, or that the
witnesses were Jacobites, or republicans^
or bribed by foreign gdd, and therefore
not to be credited. In short, Sir» the
more guilty a minister is, the more post.
tively^ the more arrogantly^ will he insist
upon his innocence, and that therefore he
ought not to be put to th|e trouble of de^
fending himself agahst a parliamentary
inquiry. Thus we must never inquire into
the behaviour of any minister whik he
continues in that station, unless it be at hk
own desire, and with a view to justify and
appkud his wisdom and conduct; nor into
the behaviour of any discarded minister,*
unless it be to satisfy the revenge of some
succeeding one; and what a pretty minis-
terial tool this argument would make of a
parlkment, 1 shall leave to the considera-
tion of those gentlemen who nsake use of it.
For my part. Sir, 1 shall always be of
opinkn, that the least suspicion of wicked-
ness, the least suspicion of^weakness, in the
conduct of any public affair, or in the con-
duct of our publicaffiiirsin general, isasuffi-
cient foundation foraparliamentary inquiry.
Nay, such inquiries ought to be often set
on foot, even when there is no suspicion
of any misconduct. ^ Shall a minister si^,
I have been a very honest and faithfol
minister, and therefore I ought not to be
put to Uie trouble of having my conduct
mquired into. Sir, a steward may as well
say, I have been a very honest man and a
good steward, and therefore ought not to
be put to the trouble of passing my ac^-
counts. Every gentleman knows, that the
proper, and ind^ the only way to keep s
968}
IS GEORGE. II.
JDei^ie in tht. OmmoBt
[«
Steward honest, is to make him frequently
Sass his accounts. A good steward will
esire it, and so will a good ininister ; for
a minister is but a steward for the public ;
and therefore when I find a minister using
all his art to evade or prevent a parliamen-
tary inquiry^ it will always eive me a sus-
picion of his conduct, and ponsequoitly
will with me be a prevailing argument for
setting up immediatielv an impartial and
strict mquiry. This» hir, was the maxim
of our ancestors : by this tnaxim they have
handed down to us our liberties and pro-
perties. Without this maxim we uiali
hand nothing down to our posterity, but
slavery and poverty.
A civil war» I shall grant, Sir, is a
terrible misfortune; but it is far from
being the most terrible; for I had rather
see my country engaged for twenty years
in a civil .war, than to see it tamely submit
but for one year to ministerial bondage ;
therefore, if this country should ever be
reduced to the fatal cblemma of being
obliged to give up its liberties, or engage
in a civil war, I hope no true Briton would
balance a moment in his choice. Thank
God ! this is not our case at present. V \
hope the fate of this question will shew it
is not our case ; for from our inquiry into
the conduct of our present ministers, no
civil war, I am sure, can ensue. If they
are innocent, an impartial inquiry wiU
justify their conduct. To suppose other-
wise, would be offering the highest in-
dignity to this House, which has never
impeached, nor passed any censure upon
a minister without a justitiable cause. If
our ministers are guilty, they ought to be
punished, and hb majesty has too much
wisdom to think of protecting a guilty
minister against the justice of the nation.
1*0 suppose otherwise, would be offering
the highest insult to the crown.
What motives gentlemen may have for
being attached to our present ministers, I
do not know, nor shall determine; but
when gentlemen possessed of posts which
they got by his favour, and perhaps hold
at his pleasure, are almost the only persons
that appear in his vindication; the pre-
sumption' militates strongly against the
disinterestedness of their behaviour, as
well as against the uprightness of his con-
duct ; and whatever such gentlemen may
pretend, if his nriajesty should give his mi-
nister up to national justice,.! believe, no
man in the kingdom appi^hends, that any
of them would attempt drawing their
swords in his defence. The danger of a
civil war is therefore not in the least to b
apprehended from a fair inquiry into on
minister'a conduct; but considering th
suspicions and exjpectatioos of the peoph
if tnis session ot parliament should en
without such an inquiry, a civil war mai
very probably be the consequence. Hi
peque will not, but his majesty may sin
pose, that our pe|^ect to inquire procej
from our opinion of his innocence. Ik
people feel the effects of his miscoftdacf
and may, perhaps, feel them eveiy dij
more and more: This will make thai
imagine, that our neglect to inquire pn
ceeds not firom our having a good o^ioi
of his conduct, but from our havmg j
share in his plunder. On the other huid
his noG^esty neither does, nor can feel thw
effects: At least he cannot feel theaiH
it is too late to prevent the goDsequenon
and as he has a good opinion of hu pariia
ment, he will natuvally suppose the condiM
of his minister to be wise and upright, ba
causehis parliament has neither condenuMi
it, nor so much as inquired into it* Ihil
his mi^esty may be prevailed <nl to coai
tinue him at the head of the adminirtratio^
notwithstanding the people's being gens
rally convinced, that he is every day imden
mining their liberties, by means ot a ytsai
and corrupt parliament ; and iS this shodi
be the case,I must conclude, that a ctA
war will certainly ensue, or I must forai|
much more disaffreeable copcluaion, whidi
is, that the peo^ of this oountiy haveii
much degenerated from the virtue tad
courage of their anoestore, that theyefaoii
rather to submit tamely to slavery, thsa li
run the risk of assertmg their .liberties kj
the sword.
. A republican and enthusiastical spiol
joined together, was, it is true, Sir, 1I14
ultimate cause of the ruin of king Chsriei
the first, but it was &r from being Um
original. The first and origii^ cause d
the ruin of that unfoitunate prince^ wn
his allowing himself to be governed, fsi
the first fifteen years of his reign, by ni<
nisters that were hateful to the people, ul
protecting those ministers against all i»
quiries and prosecutbns in parliamettU
By this means he raised and fomenled a
republican spirit in the nation, lo sueh a
degree, that the people would not be «^
tisfied with the sacrifice of a few« Ihey
had conceived such a jealousy of the power
of the crown, by the ill use his mtiusteft
made of it, that nothioe would satisfy thes
but a diminution of that power ; sad his
taking anns in defenoe of mt powe^ aii
»1
rdattMgio ihi C&nduct ofAe War.
A. D. 1742.
[ses
koppodliaD to the premilin^ spirit of this
Bstiaii, was what brought him at the last
to the fittal catastrophe he met with: His
mtimelj end ought to be a warning to all
fiitore minirterB, that have any regard to
their naster, to submit in time to a fair
nquiiyy or ii they be conscious of guilty
to fly from that fate which such an inquiry
oii^ bring them to ; and, I hope, it will
he 80 example to all future kbgs of this
country^ to let their favour towards a mi*
nster have the same period with the favour
of the people. In a free country the
princess fiivour ought to proceed from
the frrour add esteem a man has ac-
ouired among the people, and it must have
me fsroe period, or the liberties of the
people must be overtomed; for a free
Mople will not be governed by aman they
Mte or despise.
Hiisy we knowy hts present majesty is
Collvsensfiile of, and therefore we need be
Moder no apprehensiotts, that he will ob-
itract an examination, or endeavour to
protect a minister afrer he has been found
guikv upon afidr inquiry into his conduct ;
bot nippose we were so unlucky as to have
t prince upon the throne, that would ob-
itinstely protect a weak or wicked minister
seaiastthe justi
justice of his parliament, and
ife resentment of his people, should we
at here, and patiently see the nation ruined
by the moiiater's weakness, or our liberties
ynderaiined, and the people plundered and
oppresed by his wickedness \ Should we,
i ay, patientl]^ bear this, for fear of in*
Tohmg the nation in a cii^ war \ I hope,
I ihsli never hear such a cowardly doc-
trine inculcated within these walls. It is
i doctrine that breathes nothing but
filtreiy/and such as will never, I hope, be
bsrboured in the breast of any British
ftibject.
tbe fears, therefore, which the hon.
gottlemaii haa been {leased to instill into
^ sre either frmtastical, or they are such
as Bo member of this House ougnt to allow
to have the least influence upon his con-'
doct, with regard to the present question.
Svppose a general inquiry shoula be the
couequence of our appointing the select
couiunUee now movea for : Suppose that
Bcpmy ahould extend itaelf as far back as
t^ bon. gentleman seems to apprehend,
ividd it be of any bad consequence to the
Bttian? On the contrary, it would be of
pot service, because it would shew our
ntse QinistorB, thUthowever quietljr they
1^^^ pass through the course of their ad-
thdr conduct woidd aOBoe
time or other be impartially inquired into ;
and as former administrations have not
been free from suspicions, no move than
the present, I hope it would be of service
to them too, by convincing the world that
those suspicions were groundless.
I hope I have now shewn, that the hon.
gentleman's ar^ments against this motion
are of no weight, even upon the supposi-
tion of its being intendea as the first step
towards a general inquiry ; and his argu-
ment against it, upon the supposition of
its being intended only as a necessary step
.towards enabling us to give his majesty
proper advice in the present posture of
aflSurs, will appear to oe of no greater
weight, especially, if by the same change
of words, we state hb argument in its true
li^ht. He has told us, that if we are to
give any advice to our sovereign, for
whether we ought to do so seems to him
to b6 a doubt, we ought not to think of
giving advice, unless his maiesty not only
desires it in general terms, By his speech
from the throne, but likewise by mes-
sage, directs us to the particular point
unon which we are to give our acNce.
We all know, Sir, that speeches from the
throne, and messages from thecrown,are ih
this House supposed to be the speeches
and ndessages or the minister ; ana there-
fore, to put this argument in the language
c^ parliament, it wHl stand thus : < Let us
be never so fully convinced of our sove-
reign's being misled by his minister, we
ought not to give him any advice, unleai
that minister points out to us by message,
the subject upon which we are to give ad-
vice.' I hope it will be granted. Sir, that
an address to remove a mmister is a sort of
advice, and oflen a very wholesome piece
of advice, but according to this doctrine,
we can never advise our sovereign to re-
move any mmister.
I am really sorry, Sir, for being obliged
to set the absurdity of this doctrine in such
a strong light ; but in justice to my coun-
try I could not avoid it. If we are never
to advise our sovereign in any case, but
such as 18 pointed out to us by his minis-
ter, no minister will ever desire the advice
of parliament, but when he is assured they
will advise just as he has before resolved,
and such advice can never be of any ser-
vice to the king, though it may be to the
minister, by taking the odium of a bad mea-
sure off o{ his shoulders, and fixina It
upon the parliament ; but I hope I £aH
never see such a parliament m Great
Britain*
367] 15 GEORGE XL
KoWy Sir, with rSe^rd to the riUbt we
have, or ,the obligation we lie under^ of
offering our advice to our sovereign ; as
the hon* gentleman seemed to doubt of it,
I hope I shall be indulged a few words
upon the subject. To consult and advise'
is, I shall grant, the business and the duty
of the other House, perhaps more properly
than of this ; but when the other House
happens to be deficient in this respect, it
is our duty to make good that deficiency.
We must know better than the other
House what may be i^reeable or disagree-
able to the people, and it is our proper
province, to give our advice in favour of
what we think will be so, and against what
we think will be otherwise. But suppose
we were in no case to advise, are not we
to consent, and have not we a right to re-
vise that consent to any measure we think
inconsistent with the public good ? Is it
not then our duty to examine every fPublic
ineasure, especially when it is attended
with a public expence, which is the case at
5 resent > And can we examine it so as to
etermine whether we ought to consent to
It or no, without strictly examining all the
letters and papers that relate to it f
Simpoae we should in this, session be
called on, as we probably may, to grant a
sum of money tor the assistance of the
queen of Hungary ; can we determine
what sum to grant, without knowing how
a£^rs stand between France and us, as
well as between us and the queen of Hun-
gary ? For if we stand upon bad terms
with France, we ought certainly be the
more zealous, and to grant the more li-
berally, for the support of the queen of
Hungary. Thus, Sir, it must appear,
that even if we had no inclination to in-
quire into the conduct of past affiiirs, nor
to advise about the conduct of future, yet
still we ought to examine the papers men-
tioned ; and aa this cannot be done without
referring them to a Select Committee, I
shall therefore be for agreeing to the
motion.
Sir WUUam Yonge :
Sir ; that this House has a right to re-
fiise, as well as to give its consent, to every
measure proposed to us by the crown, or
recommended by the other House, is what
no man will deny ; but that for this reason
we ought to pry into such secrets as relate
to foreign affairs , cannot be admitted, be-
cause it would be attended with infinite
prejudice to the public As our business
rehites chiefly to domestic affiurs» we ought
DeBiOe m the Commom [M
to keep within that provinoe ualesi U
majesty communicates to us some foreu
treaty, expedition, or transaction, in orS
to have our approbation, or asdatanoe
and then we ought to content outbcIw
with such li^ts as his majesty may h
pleased to furii^ish us with ; n>r in all soc
cases his majesty will communicate tii
necessary papers, so fiir as is consiite
with the public safet3^ From than n
ought to judge, for we can judge fitM
none other ; and as the crown musti
supposed to know more of foreign afis
than have been, or can be conununicatfl
to us ; we ought to have a bias in fiivoi
of that which appears tc be the (^inioa <
the crown.
This, Sir, may perhaps, by some ga
tlemen be called a slavish doctrine; but
is such as will be followed by all who Iw
a greater inclination to serve their com
try in parliament, than to find fault wil
the conduct of their sovereign or the esi
duct of ministers, call it iniich you «l
for I do not know how to distingoU
unless it be, that we ought to impute i
our sovereign every thing we think r^
and to his ministers every thing we dwi
wrong. With regard to domestic afiaii
we have a much greater latitude ; becan
we may more fireely call for all papers a
lating to any such afiisdr, and have greaH
reason to su^ct that ministers wiQ,i
affitirs of this kind, give such advice \
may most conduce to their own prival
advantage. But it cannot be saia, dii
the papers proposed to be referred to
select committee, have the least relatifl
to any afiair of thi; kind. If we sbmd
be desired to grant money for the assis
ance of the queen of Hungfary, it wi
then be time enough to consider wheth
we ought to do so. For determim'ng th
question, I think we have no occasion i
examine any papers of state, our commc
newspapers must convince us, that n
ought to comply with such a demani
and as to the quantum of that grant, i
must be convinced, that she stands, tn net
of more than this nation can afford to giV
Sir, we can have qo occasion to refi
the papers mentioned in this oiotion to
secret committee, unless we have a mil
to make that committee a committee <
inquiry, and to enable them to inqoii
into the conduct of all our public afii
both forei^ and domestic, for many yea
past. This I believe to be the reai intei
tion of the motion, and for this reasoa
cannot agree to it; because theestriiiis]
869]
reMt^ «o the Omduci qfthe War.
ing of ndh a oommittee «t such a^ritiGal
coQJunctare, would be of the most danger-
ous consequence to Europe in general^ as
well as to this nation in particular By
this the whole frame of our government
would be altered^ and would continue so,
during the continuance of that committee.
It would be an establishing imperium in
imperiof or rather a government set up by
this House, distinct n'om, and superior to,
our constitutional goveniment; for this
committee must either consist of such as
are friends to the king's mmisters, or such
as are their declared enemies. If of the
fonner, it would give no satisfaction to the
people, and if of the latter, they would
probably, in a short time, get the entire
management of this House, and take upon
them to accuse and imprison every minis-
ter at their own will and pleasure.
In short. Sir, I should expect to see the
scene of 1641 acted over again. To see
all his majesty's present ministers im-
prisoned or forced into exile, and eveij
oew officer he should name without their
directiooy with all those tiiat appeared as
inends to the crown, declared delinquents.
Mliat this confusion might end in, God
only knows; but in such circumstances, I
am certain^ we could neither prosecute the
war agaiost Spain with vigour, nor assist
in restoring the balance of power in Eu*
rope. Nay, we could not even defend
oarselves : our plantations, with our pos-
sessions in the Mediterranean, would be-
come a prey to the Spaniards, and the
nation itself would, at last, become a pro-
vince to the Frendi, who might sencL the
Pretender to us for a viceroy.
In the year 1715, Sir, we had no fatal
consequences to fear from the secret com-
mittee then appointed. The nation was
iiot engaged m any war, nor was the
bdance of power in dan^r. The com-
mittee was not to inquire mto the conduct
of the then administration : they were to
inquire into the conduct of a set of nunis-
ten, who had most justly been dismissed
by his late majesty, wiui the contempt
taev deserved. When the proposition was
made for appointing a secret committee,
it was evident from the complexion of the
House, that it would consist of such as
vere friends to the then administration :
consequently there was no confusion in
•ur government to be apprehended; for
a we were then situated, I do not think
tbe idiellion was a fiital consequence,
anee the diiialTected thereby furnished the
govenunent with an opportunity to crush
[VOUXIL]
A. D. 1748. [370
them. If tiiey had not dedared them-
selves, they would have had a great in
fluence upon all future diections, and by
beingjoined by discontented whigs, might,
before this time, have got a Jacobite par-
liament, which would nave brought our
present establishment into greater danger
than it could be by an open rebellion.
Gentlemen must thus see, Sir, that there
is a very great di&rence between our
preset circumstances, and those of 1715 i
and surely no man will say, there is now
the same necessity for an inquiry. I am
one of those who think there is not the
least occasion for it, and I am convinced
there are many such in the nation. Sus*
picions have been most artfully, propagated
against our present administration, as there
wUl be agamst all; and if I thought they
could be removed by an impartiafinquiTy,
I should be for it ; but, I am sure, they
cawiot. Those suspicions are entertained
by none* but the disafected and disobliged,
and nothii^t I know, will satirfv the
former but a sacrifice of our present happy
establishment ; and the latter nothing but
a sacrifice of our present ministers, whe-^
dier they deserve it or no. A justification
of their conduct, which would be the con-
sequence of an impartial inquiry, would
be so &r from allavmg the heats and ani-
mosities without doors, that it would in«*
crease them, and would be made a handle
for raising suspicions against the honour
of this House, as well as aeainst the cxm^
duct of our ministers; and this, I h<^pe»
will prevail with the House to put a n^a-
tive upon this motion.
Lord Pfrcevo/ .-
Sir; as this is. the first time I have had
the honour of offermg my sentiments, I
hope to meet with the indulgence of tiie
House ; and I do assure you, Sir, however
great I may find it, it shall not induce me
to be often troublesome.
I have the ar^ter reason to intreat this
favour, as 1 had not received the least
previous intimation, upon what point the
debate of this day was like to have turned.
But I have endeavoured to supply this
want of information, by a diligent atten-
tion to what has been urged on both sides
of the question ; and the state of the case
before us appears to me in this light, that
gentlemen on the one side suspect the
conduct of the administration, and desire
the assistance of thiB House to dear up
those suspidons ; while on the other side,
the gentlemen in the administration, knoww
C2B]
ari]
15 GBOXGl u.
MMlbtttW %% in$ MJOfdli €^l^6miWg
[m
ing themidvea siMpeetal, Uoot all thay
eati to BreFaat die Hooae from affiicdiDg
Ibal ai8t9limce»
Now, Sir, 80 I stand btbb Homo by
the fiivour of my conatituenta* as inde-
•eodent as any man can be, and as Ood
MS placed roe in a oondilion of lift to
maintain that independence, I ha«e no-
thing to induoe me to be partial in tfiis
question. I am goremed by no «iewa ef
party : I am influenced by no prejndioe.
On the one hand, those who suspect the
conduct of the ministij, are not only war*
ranted by the constitutfon to entertain
Suspicions of this kind, with regard to any
administration, but urged by tb uniTersal
toioe of the whole nation to distrust the
ponduct of the present. They are ikrther
warranted by tne visible decay of trade>
^j the distress of all our foreign aiBurs,
and by the ill success of a war, in which
we have been above two yeaia en-
gaged, with great superiority of force,
against a contemptible enemy : a war in
which we have hitlierto relied neitber
honour nor advantage, and in which, fhim
the manner of its management, we have
no prospect of.aoauiring either, though
none was ever supplied with graator libe-
rality by the nation. Thus the gentlemen
on one side of the question seem to act no
other part than what is ihir and just^ e»-
aentiai to the honour of this Mouse, and
to the interests and expectations of their
^country*
Give me leave to review the con-
duct of the gentlemen who are thus
ttnhappily suspected. These uig^ even
these suspicions as an argument to excite
their friends to support them, as in a case
bf great exlremitjr ; it is their great endea-
vour, to be left in the state of bemg still
suspected. Isitpoasibletfaatanymimcon-
ident in his own integritv, innocent of what
ia imputed to him, should exert himself in
such a manner, to prevent your receiving
informations, which might tend to set his
character in its true light ? No, Sk, this
conduct is. by no means consistent with
this favourable supposition. Mimsters,
how great soever they may be, know the
importance of a good reputation: there-
fere it is impossible for any men in his
conscience not to be convinced, from this
uncommon struggle, that the papers now
contended for, contain somewhat that will
6x either guilt or error up<m those who
hwe engrossed the direction of the public
afturs ; and in either case, it is our duty to
mquire, that we may be able to do justice
3
tooor eoiuntvy^ev,at least, to prevent nttint
mischief
The necessity, dierefore, of some iDquiry
bemg' apparent, as well ftom die nature of
the thing, as fW>m the conduct <tf those
who endeavour to prevent it, IshaHtake
no farther time to enforce that point ; bat
I must beg leave to answer the objections
made to tbe manner of inquiry now pro*
posed.
One hon. member has Cold you, that
twenty one persons cannot be found among
the members of iMs House, proper to be
intrusted with so great a power ; and yet,
it seems, diat one man may be found pro-
per to be intrusted, for twenty years toge*
ther, with the whole revenues, the sole di.
rection of all aikirs both abroad and st
home, the sole power of this goremment
without coDtroul. The same gentleraao
has told us, that the Commons cannot dele-
gate such a power to a committee. Upon
other occasions I have also heard that hon.
gentleman assert, that thb was not a pro-
per busmess for the House, who were too
numerous to be tr^isted with those impor«
lant secrets, which must, in consequence,
be laid before them. If, therefore, neiAer
tlie House ought, nor a committee can
peruse the papers, necessary f&r an exa-
mination into the measures of a minister,
the result is plainly thfe, that ministers must
be left to act in what manner they think
fit, without any apprehension or being
called to account.
Another gentleman has said, that the
authority of such a committee would be
greater than any ministerial authority erer
known in this or any dther reign. I sm
very nmch surprised, Aat this gentleman
should so soon torget the many instances of
like nature, already ui^^ed in this debate;
b)it I am more surprised, that he should
not remember that famous committee, con-
sisting of the same number, and invested
with the same powers, appointed by this
House at the b^^ning of the reign of the
late Idn^. Surely that hon. gentleman,
whose friends seem to think him the object
of this debate, will not foiget it; for if I
am not mistaken, he was himself chairman
of it.
Gentlemen seem not to reflect to whom
they speak, when they advance such doc-
trines. Sir, I am confident that the
very youn^t and most unexperienced
memlJer ofthis House knows, that no com-
mittee of any kind has power fiuther than
to prepare matter for me House : That
no act of a committee is of any force, ^
m]
lltf Aiicnee ifQfie€r$fram Minorca. A. D« 1742.
[874
ooofinMdaadnH&dbjrtheHoQge: That
its poven are d#rivea from &e House*
and Dial revert !• the House egein; and
Ggd fiKiNdJ Sir» that the time should be
WW come^ when they shall not be found
grester than any miaisterial authority
knovn in this kingdom.
Men of sense, 8ir» will not be frightened
at these phantoms. Our constitution knows
£tf gras^r powers; the Charter of king
John directs, in cases of extremity, not that
tventy one persons diall be appointed to
ioipect the public i^epers, and to report to
th» House the matter which they shall
discofer therein, but prescribee, that five
and twenty persons ma;^ be appointed to
take the regency into their own hands, and
to osrdse ib% highet^ functions of this
govonment, in which the whole nation is
required to maintain them, till the puUk
pennces shall be totally redressed. This
B a power which was not only prescribed,
but often exercised in the reigns, of king
Jobi, HeuT the Srd, Edward the 2n«^
lod Richara the £nd« This is, indeed, a
pover of a very h%h nature, end which 1
fiboidd be very eony to see exerted again
in thii country; bu^ perhaps, a proper use
of that moderate power which we now eon-
tead fbriQiay bethe only means to prevent
tbe aecessity of having recourse to the
other, hereafter.
Sir, I sm sensible I have troubled you
too longi but when I found a motion that is
nasonaiblcso vii^enthr opposed; and as I
M a gmt necessity for the iniiuiry itself,
ttdoodiiog new or dangerous in the man-
ur of that proposed, I shall heartily give
Bjabmative to t^ question*
Therewas, upon this dccaston^ the ibllest
House known f<»r meny years. The De-
bate being over, and the question put upon
Mr Pokeney^s motion, it passed in the
K^byiS9agiuhisi2M.
Then it was.remved to address Us ma-
j^fof'* copies of aD Memorials, Repre-
i^Dtathns, Dedaiittions, and Letters, sent
|o )tt Majesty, ot his ministers, by die
|%of Pmitt, or his ministers ; or by h»
^joty, or Us mhiisters, to the king of
^^^ cnr his mhdsters; or snch Letters
^Ittrebeensent fromhende to his Majes-
^tobiater at the court ofProssia; with
^ respecthre Answers, rdadtie to the
>tite ot tewar in die einplre, and the sup-
P^ttd intemts of die Hodse of Austria,
SDce the deafli of the late Emperor.''
Msl9 im Me Larit am o RedoUiiion
^^^^^mgikfAUif^j^QfimiJrm the
Garrison (^Minorca,*"} Jan* 37. The
House proceeded to take into consider«^
tion the Pa^rs laid before their lordships,
relatinff to Minorca and Gibraltar, and
Lord Sandwich moved to resolve, *' Than
as it appears to this House, by the I«ist of
the Officers belonging to the establishment
oi Minorca, that, out of 19 officers, only
oneadjutantjooe of the joint secretariefi,tte
provost marshal, one surgeon's mate, and
the signal man, are attending their duty in
the island ; it is ^e opinion <h this Houstf,
That the permitting so many officers to be
absent, in time of nrofound peace, would be
a great nc^ect ot the public service, tend-
inis to the destruction of military disd-*
plme; but that the suffering them to be
absent in time of war, at a juncture when
the island of Minorca has bean threatened
with an invasion from the Spaniards, ren-
ders the posse8sk>n of that important place
Erecarious» suod is highly injurious to the
ODour and interest of these Kingdoms/'
After debate it was ordered. That the
said Debate be adjourned till to-morro%
and that major general Anstrutber do
then attend this House*
Jan. 28. The order of the day being
read for resuming the adjourned Pebate,
and also a motion for the attendance df
mijor general Anstrutber, who, attending
accordingly, was cslled in: and having
been sworn, the List jofthe Officers bo-
longing to the establishment of Minorca,
laid before this House the 20th insunt,
distinguishing which of them are upon the
place, and which of them are absent^ was
shewn to him ; and he was directed to give
an account of the persons absent, the nl^
ture of their offices and employments, and
the reasons of their being so siisent: and,
having given an account thereof, was
examined further, in general^ aa to the state
and condition of the said island, the num-
ber and condition of the forces there, the
manner and method of recruiting, and other
matters* And then he was directed to
withdraw* After which,
The Duke of Argyk rose and said :
My lords ; when I consider the-conduct
of our ancestors upon the like occasions, the
evidence of the neglect now under our con-
sideration^ the importance of the frface so
grossly and so evidentlv neclected, the&td
conseouences that neglect has been attend-
ed witn, and the more fatal consequences it
^Fitomtha^Loodon
375]
15 GEORGE II.
Debaie in the Lardi eoneerning
[S76
might probably have been attended wHb, I
must conclode^ that no censure was ever
more juat, no censure was ever more mode*
rate^ no censure was ever more necessary,
than that contained in the proposition now
before you. The island or Minorca has in
every circumstance been so much neglect-
ed for many years past, that I am surprised
at its remaining still in the possession of
Great Britain, The very despair which
the poor soldiers wero' drove to by being
Jcept so long in tlie island, without hop^ (rf
bemg ever relieved, was of itself sufficient
^ oidanger the loss of that valuable pos-
session ; for I wonder it has not before now
made them mutiny^ and ddiver the uland
up to the Spaniards. It is happy for us
that our countrymen have generally a
greater love for their native soil, and a
greater contempt of foreign countries, then
most other people have; for it is this only,
in my opinion, that has preserved to us the
possession of Minorca, and perhaps Gibral-
tar likewise. Considering how ill the gar-
risons of both these f^ces have been
treated, how long they have suffered under
that treatment, what little hopes they had
of being ever relieved, and what encourage-
ment tney had reason to expect from we
enemy, it is surprising to me that both
have not before now been delivered up to
the Spaniards, either by a mutiny among
the soldiers, or by the treachery of some
of the inferior officers; but as such mu-
tiny or treachery would have disabled
them from ever returning to their native
country, which they most earnestly wish
lor, and would have obliged them to live
among Spaniards whom they most heartly
de^se, thisalohe, I believe, has prevented
their being guilty of it.
Whilst they have any hopes of return-
ing to their native country, these hopes,
ny lords, will still prevent such a fatal ef-
fect ; but if the regiments in garrison there
should be^ to lose all hopes of being ever
relieved, if the^ should begin to look upon
themselves as fixt there for life, it may very
probably produce such an effect, or it may
induce them to make but a faint resistance
in case an enemy should come to attack
« them ; and the absence of so many officers
neceBsary for the defence of the place may
fiimish toose that are there with an excuse
lor that fiunt resistance. By such means
the place might be lost, without leaving it
In our power to punish those that were im-
mediately the occasion of it. They would
perhaps be made prisoners by the enemy,
and would of course beset at liberty upon
the condusion of the next treaty of peace,
which would furnish them with an opportu-
nity they could never otherwise have ex-
pected, I mean that of retummg to their
native country ; for as no slavery is admit-
ted among Christian potentates, we could
not inflict that punishment upon them,
which Regulus aavised the Romans to in-
flict upon the army under his command :
If we did not exchange or redeem them
during the war, the enemy would of course
discheurge them upmi the condusion of a
peace; and upon their return we could
not in justice punish them for sufiering
therasdves to be relieved by an enemy,
from that punishment, which had most un-
justly been inflicted upon them by their
country. I say punishment, my lords, for
to keep any regiment at Portraahon longer
than their turn of duty requires, I must
feok on as a sort of punishment. It is a
* Relegatio m Insulam,' whidi waa one of
the severest punishments among the Ro-
mans, especially when it was during life;
and is a punishment which ou^t to be b-
flicted upon no man, unless he has been
guilty (Hsome very heinous crime.
We liave had it proved at our bar, roj
lords, how ill the common soldiers iH-ook
their being kept so long from having a
sight of thdr native country. Many of
them have put an end to a wretched life,
rather than continue longer in what they
looked upon as an unjust and crud exile :
many others of them have maimed them-
selves, and thereby rendered themselves
not only unfit for tne service, but unfit for
getting their bread at home, rather than
continue longer in the place where they
were; and the deamess of provisions,!
chiefly occasioned by the taxes and pro-
hibitions arbitrarily imposed by the go-
vernors, must make it very inconvenient
both for soldiers and officers confined to
live in those garrisons. We may from
hence see, how dangerous it is to trust the i
preservation of those important places to
men who have no hopes of ever seeing!
their friends at home, as long as those!
places remain in our possession ; and the i
frequent leave of absence given to the
officers, and to such numbers of them at a !
time, must certainly add to this danger, i
because it adds to the discontent of thei
common soldier, who can never expect;
leave of absence, and renders his case!
more provokingly demerate.
The importanceof the island of Minorca,
with reroect to our trade in every put of
the Mediterranean^ is in iCsdf so manifest,
J773
the Aitenee qfOficenfrwa Mhwrca.
A. D. 1742«
[378
ind has been npon fbmier occasions so
ctearlj demonstrated to your lordahros,
that i need not say much for proving
vfaat is so unirersally known and acknow*
ledged. It must be allowed, that our
trade widi Baitery, Turkey^ Ital^» and
the coasts of France and Spain, situated
in the Mediterranean, is of the utmost
coDScouence to this nation ; and to eveiy
one or these, our possession of Minorca is
cf great importance, because it not only
affioirds our diips a safe and convenient
post to refit or careen, and to refresh thehr
men; but it renders our trade to every
one of these places more secure, and more
difficult to be disturbed or interrupted by
an enemy. Ever since we bad possession
of this island, the corsairs ot Algiers,
Tunis, and the other piratical places upon
the Baibaiy coast, have been more tracta-
ble, and more shy of breaking with us.
They know how easy it is for us, not onl^
to said a poweriiil squadron to the Medi-
terranean, bat to keep it there, till we
have comeUed them to submit to our
tenas. This makes them afndd of break-
bg with as, and, if by chance they do,
more ready to be reconcfled: whereas,
dunldwelose this possession, after hav-
ing kept it so bnff, thejr would despise us
iDore than ever &y did heretofore, and
would be ready upon every occasion to
come to an open rupture with us. Con-
feqoently our possession of Minorca must
roder oar trade in every part of the
Mediterranean more secure than it could
othenriae be; and when we happen to be
It war either with France or Spain, this
abod will always be a great advadti^ to
«, by affording a safe port for our mer-
dnnt chips to run into, when chaced by
prirateers, and by enabling us to keep
^^vi, in the Mediterranean, a superior
HjoadFOD for protecting our trade, and for
lading the enemies coasts, as well as
destroying their privateers.
But, my lords, in case it should ever
hsppen, as it probaUy may, that both
Fraoce and Spain should unite in a war
against us, the possession of tliis island
would be of the utmost consequence to
w trade iti the Mediterranean : nay, in
tbis case, it would be very difficult for us
to cany on any trade in that sea without
i;; especially now that a son of l^in is
ia possession of the two Sicilies ; for if
Faoce and Spain should* declare against
us. we could not expect that the king of
tbetwo Sicilies would long continue our
friend; and how the ports of Tuscany
may be disposed of at the end of the pre-
sent war it is impossible to determine. In
this caKe, it woi^d be impossible for us to
keep a superior squadron in the Meditelr-
ranean, it would be dangerous even to
send any such squadron thither, because
our capital ships would have no place of
safeiy to retire to in case of a storm, nor
any place to refit or careen. The bay of
Gibraltar, since the Spaniards have been
allowed to erect such works upon it, is far
firom being a place of safety, nor can any
capital ship be careened in either of the
mdes there ; and if the king of Portugal
should be overawed into such a neutrality,
as to refuse admittance into his ports for
any souadron of ships of war, our posses-
sion or Gibraltar would become precarious;
for we could not always keep a superior
squadron there for his defence, and the
enemy might take an opportunity, in the
winter time, if we had no such squadron
there, to attack the place both by sea and
land, and mi^t carry it before we could,
at that season of the year, send a squadron
from hence for its relief; so that tne pre-
servation of Gibraltar depends upon our
preserving Minorca: they came together,
and they will certainly go togetiier; or
very soon after one another; for an admi-
nistration that win neglect the one, wiD,
in all probability, equally n^lect the
other ; and while we preserve a superio-
rity at sea in the Mediterranean, it is tm*
possible we should lose either, unless it be
by the treachery, neglect, or misconduct
of our ministers.
Their treachery, my lords, you cannot
prevent, but you may punidi; and von
may prevent any firtal efect from their
neglect or misconduct, by being watchful
to censure it as soon as it happens. And
as what is proposed to be censured by this
motion, has something in it more criminal
than mere neglect: as no officer can be
absent without leave, the giving of that
leave, or advising his majesty to give that
leave, to a great number of them at a
time, is an act which I think would be
criminal even in time of profound peace;
but is much more heinously so, at a time
when we are in open war with that very
nation which lays claim to this island, and
at a time when that venr nation was pre-
paring a formidable embarkation, at the
port which is the most convenient of any
they have, for making an invasi<m upon
the island of Minorca.
At such a critical conjuncture, my
lords, the granting or continuing leave of
mi
15 GEOUGB IL
fkioft im iht Lmk concerning
iseo
to «B^ one Officer baloogiag to
tiiat garrison, is certainly criminal; but at
auch a time to grant or continue leave of
absence to fourteen officers out of nino-
teen,is what can be excused by nothii^
but a confession, that our ministers haai
without his nuuesty's authority, entered
into treaty^ with nis majesty's enemies, and
bad promised to allow them to sail un-
disturbed to attack his majesty's allies in
Italy, provided they engaged not to at>
tack his majesty's island of Minorca.
This, I am convinced, is a confession
which our chief minister will take care not
to make; he certainly must remember,
that to meet and treat with an enemy, in a
time of open war, without any authority
from the sovereign, was one of the articles
of impeachntent against the earl of Ox-
fimL But suppose he had sucdi an autho*
rity, I will say it was highly criminal to
advise his maj^ty to conclude any audi
treaty, and still more criminal to advise
his migesty to trust so &r to it, as to leave
Minorca at such a time without its full
complement of officers and soldiers i for
w^ose the enemy had broke through the
€iis;(^ement» and had taken Minorca in
their way to Italy, would your lordships
have allowed any minister to plead their
breach oi faith as an excuse lor his ridi-
culous conduct f
I shaU grant, mv lords, that four of the
absent officers b^ong to a fort prmeoted
and intended to have been built in the
feign of the late wieen, but of i^iich no
one stone is yet laid ; so that those of-
ficers, if they had been there, coiddluive
bad DO particular charge to take care of;
but as the biiildiaff or that fort, I mean
fort St. Anne, woi2d have added greatly
to Ae strength of that island, according
to the opinion of the lieutenant govem<Mr,
/Jriio has been examined at ^rour bar, and,
indeed^ according to the opinion of eveiy
■MBi of common understandii^ that has
over been there, its not being built, nor
so much as begun, in so many years after
its being firet projected, is, in my opinion,
such a n^ect, tmt it seems to be a mani-
fi98t proof of our minieters having had an
intention to surrender that island up to
the Spaniards, as soon as they could io it
with any safety to tbeaiselves* Thank
God, they have been hitherto disappointr
ed; but I cannot, upon this occasion,
avoid observing, how mid our ministers
are of having places and Commisaions to
dispose of among their creatures and
tools; fimr though the diQBign of having this
fort built seems for many years to bsro
been entirely laid aside, yet they have
taken care to continue in commiasioo, and
in full pay. a fort major, an a^lutant, a aur-
^n, ana a surgeon's mate; and I wa^
indeed, surprised, that they never took it
into their heads to appomt a lieutenant
governor of this non-ostensible fisrt; for it
would have been a good sinecure poat for
some of their friends, and he.surely might
have lived here at home, with as much
safety to the island, as the lieutonaat go-
vernor of fort St. Phllin, whidi is a fort
now in beinff, having been built bjr the
Spaniards betore we got possession of the
island* Of what cons^uence this lieute-
nant ff overnor may be to the safety of that
fort, I profess, I cannot determine ; but if
he can be of no consequence, I am aure,
the post ought not to be continued a (^arge
upon the public; and if such an officer
can be of any consequence to the safety
of the place, it is certainly a great neglect
to allow him to bQ absent for a number of
years, as he has been according to the in-
formation your lordships have had from
the gentleman examinea at your bar;
Among the many other neglects that
have appeared in your lordships' exanuoa-
tion of tnis affiur, 1 cannot conclude, with-
out taking notice of the bad dispositioB
the inhabitants seem to be in. Ine lieu-
tenant governor of the island has told y oup
that though the inhabitants of the island
be now much richer than they ever were,
whilst under the dominion of the Spani-
ards, yet, in his opinioui they would cer-
tainly join the Spaniards in case they
should- invade the island* As this, my
lords, is a very extraordinary circum-
stance, itfnust be owing either to the peo-
ple's thinking themselves oppressed by us,
or to their continuing bigotted to the
popish religion* If to Uie former, it shews
a very great neglect in our administratioD,
which ought certainly to take care to re-
lieve die people from every oppression
they can have the least reason to complain
of; and if it be owmg to their conUnuing
bigotted to the popish religion, this like-
wise must be owing to a neglect in our
adcpinistration ; for though we are, by the
treaty of Utredit between Spain and ua,
engfiged to permit the free use of the
Roman Catholic religion in that island*
yet we are no way engaged not to take
measures fi>r converting the inhabitants to
the Brotestaat religion; because the clause
by which we are obUged to take maasures
Mr j^eserviiy the £oman Catholic reli-
381]
A. D. lT4i.
[382
gioo there, hat ^tas express prtmso an-
nexed to ity <* Ph)Yided the same be
coosotent with the civil gorernment and
hws of Gieat Britain f which e? ery body
knows it n not. Therefore we mieht not
only hare taken measoret for refonning
the inhabitants, but we might have set up
the church of England as the established
rdttioQ of the idfuid, with an indulgence
to Roman Catholics as to the free use of
their rdigion. If we had done this and
bad takea care to have able divines and
presdien among them, most of the mha-
bitaati mi^t by this time have been true
memben of the church of England, which
would have made them unite heartOy with
the garrison a^nst the Spaniards, instead
of joinbg with' them : and wodd have
been one of die most efiectual methods
we coold have taken for securing the pos*
Kssioo of that island. But I do not hear,
that we ever took care to have any one
PMestant preacher among them, or that
we ever took any methoa for converting
the inhabitants to bur own religion ; whi^
itanealect that I wonder the reverend
bench has not before now taken care to
Ke rectified; for I must look upon it as a
reproach upon our religion as well as upon
oarpolitics. " *
These, my lords, and many others which
I cooU mention, are nefflects or omissions
wbich verv much affisct die security of that
sbmi It they were of a late date, we
Digbthave some hopes, that our minis-
ten would of themselves take care to rec-
ti^ tbem in time to come; but they hav0
been lo long continued, and so often re-
peated, that we can expect no amendment,
^esi we enforce it by a censure upon
XKBe of those that are past. The neglect^
w rather die fact mentioned in the first
part of this motion, is so evident, and so
D|unibtly criminal, that it cannot be de-
wed, nor can it be excused any other
*ay than by confessing what is still more
winiinal ; therefore I cannot see how your
V)rdship8 can refose to pass a censure
"poo it The censure proposed, mode-
J«e as it is, wfll probably prevent the like
wr the future, and, 1 hope, it will in every
Q^ re^>ect make our present, and all
^Qtnre Quoisters, more carefid to provide
^ tite safety of diis island, which is of
nch importance to our trade in every part
^ tbe Mediterranean, and consequently
to our trade in every part of the world ;
lor there is such a connexion between the
^eral branches of our trade, that no one
of them can be loBt without doing a pre-
judice to every one of die rert, by puttinjg
rt out of die power of our m^chants to
nudce a propet sortment of the cargoes
they send out to foreign markets, without
being obliged to purdiase several of the
commodities they have occasion for at the
second or third nand, instead of purchas-i
ing them at the first, which diey will al-
wi^ do as long as we have a free and
open trade with every part of the world.
LorL Chancdlor Ifardwkke t
Vlj lords; I shall readily admit, diat
die island now under our considet^tion, is
of considerable importance to our trade»
and conse^uendy to the riches and strength
of this niation; but yet I must think, that
die importance of it has been a litde ex-
aggerated in this debate ; for i cannot be
of opinion, that without having possession
of this island, we could not keep Gribraltar,
nor carry on any trade in the Mediterra-
nean. -Before we had possession either
of this island or Gibraltar, we carried oa
as extensive a trade, I believe, in the
Mediterranean, as we have ever done
since ; and though France and Spain were
united in a war against us, and for some
time in possession of the two Sicilies as
well as the island of Minorca, yet we pre-
served our possession of Gibraltar, and de-
foatcu their most vigorous efibrts against,
it, at a time when it was not near so well
fortified, nor so well provided as it is now.
Therefore, my lords, though there is good
reason to consider the isumd of Minorca
as a place of importance, yet it is not of
such vast importance as it has been repre-
sented in this debate.
However, my lords, as it is A place of'
importance, ana as the hpnbur as widl as
interest 'of this nation is concerned in
its preservation, if it had been neglect-
ed, and that neelect should be laid in a
proper manner before this House, I should
readily join in censurbg those persons who
upon a due inouiry and full proof} should
appear to have been guilty or that neglect;
but I cannot join in me censure now pro-
posed, because I am not convinced, that
the place has been any way neglected ; be-
cause 1 'do not think, tnat Siose things
alleged to be neglects, have been in a
proper manner h^d before us ; and be-
cause I shall always be aeainst general
censures, on account of their loadins the in-
nocent equdly with the guilty. With regard
to those tilings that have been allegMl as
neglects, they consist, I think, in iceepiag
some of the regimcDts too long there* in
S8S3
15 GEOBGS IL
DebaU in the Ltrdt eatuendng
[«
giving le8v<e of absence to too many offi-
cers at a timey in not having before this
time erected the intended fort caDed St
Anne, and in not having taken measures
for converting the inhabitants to the Pro-
testant religion ; for as to the inhabitants
being under any sort of oppression, though
it has been insinuated -as a presumption, no
particular act of oppression hasy I think.
Seen so much as alleged.
Thoi^h I do not pretend to understand
much ofthe military, yet as I must exa-
mine mto it, so far as I am able, before I
can form any judgment, or ffive my vote
in this question, I shall beg leave to exa-
mine these several instances of neglect ;
and in the course of that examination I
shall endeavour to shew to your lordships
that no one of them has been properly and
lull V laid before this House. With regard
to the keeping of some ofthe regiments so
long upon the island, I really do think, and
I am m charity bound to oelieve, that it
has always proceeded from a very laudable
design, a design to save the public money,
and not from any negligence, much less
from a design to expose the island to any
danger of being delivered up to the enemj^.
We all know, that transporting of a regi-
ment to Minorca, and bringing another
from thence, must at all times be attended
with a very great expence to the public,
which if possible ought certainly to be
saved ; ana the difference between a sol-
dier's serving at home, where he has sel-
dom or never the pleasure of seeing any
of his friends, or relations, and his serving
in Minorca, is not, I think, so great, as to
make it an insufferable hardsnip upon a
regiment, to keep it continually, or for a
great number of^ years,. in Minorca; at
least it will never be thought such a hard-
ship by the soldiers as to occasion their
mutinying and delivering the island up to
the enemy, whereby they would forfeit all
hopes of ever retummg to, or being pro-
viaed for by their native country, even
after their being grown old and decrepid,
which they are sure of, if they serve out
their time with fidelity and courage.
This consideration, my lords, will al-
ways secure the island against any danger
from a mutiny amongst me soldiers, even
supposing the re^ments now there were
never to be reheved; and as to their
being thereby induced to make but a faint
resistance in case of an attack, I hope,
we niay depend upon our being secured
against this event by the naturm courage
<n our meP| and their general aversion to
the character of a coward. But we hn
another security against this event, whi<
is the punishment both the officers u
soldiers might be subjected to, by tl
martial law, upon their returning to thi
own country, either by being redeeon
during the continuance of the war, or 1
their returning upon tlie conclusion of
peace ; for, I hope, it will not be m
that we cannot, in this as well as in otfa
countries, punish both officers and sddif
for cowardice or neglect of duty.
As for the instances of soldiers nkBa
ing themselves, or, perhi^, shooti
themselves through the head, many
these instances may have proceeded m
their being tired of the service, or fn
their conceiving some diseust at tin
commanding officer, as well as frpm A
despair at being continued so long in di
island ; for as in that island there ii ;
possibility of deserting, the irksomeoi
they are under, or the disgust they ba
conceived, must operate strondy op
their minds, and may often produce su
Cru^\ effects. Even here at home, if du
were no possibility of deserting, I mi
ho doubt but we should often hear of su
maimings and self-murders. In this 1 1
confirmed by the many instances we ba
of desertion here at home, notwithstai
ing the severe penalty that attends it; i
a fellow that will risk bemg shot for i
sertion, rather than continue longer bti
service, or longer under the commanl
such an officer, would very probably Ac
himself through the head, or by maimii
render himseS unfit for die service, if I
found there was no possibility of den
ing. These are inconveniences win
must be endured, because they cannot]
prevented; for surely our government
not to give a soldier leave to draw his &
charge, whenever he is pleased to becoB
tired of the service, or to conceive a
disgust against his officer ; and mach k
are they to put the public to the expeoi
of bringing a regiment home firom lA
norca, and sending another in its plat
whenever any of the soldiers conceive J
aversion to the service, or to their oicQ
or to the place where they are.
My lords, we have several regimen
and independent companies in Ameiie
and very probably we may, for the fotur
be obh'gea to keep more there than v
have ever done heretofore ; Is there m
the same reason for relieving those tez
ments and independent compaoi^, D
sending others in their stead from timet
385]
the Absence qfOfficersJram Minorca.
A. D. 1742.
[389
time, that there is for relieving the regi-
ments in garrison at Minorca i I believe
it irill be allowed, that the aervice ig as
bard and dangerous, and much more in-
conrenient in every part of America,
tiun it is in Minorca ; out it would be so
inconvenient, and so expensive to the
public, to give our army their turn of
duty upon such service, that no man, I
believe, will ever pretend, it ought or can
be done ; and therefore it must be allowed
as an established maxim, that every man
that idists in the army, is patiently to
submit to his lot, and to serve in any part
of die world where the re^ment or com-
paoj in which he engages, is appointed to
serve by our government ; and that he is
to serve there as long as our government,
shall think fit to continue in that place
the regiment or company to whicn he
bdongs.
But suppose, my lords, it were a fiiult
to continue a regiment for a great number
of years upon duty in Minorca : suppose
it were such a fiiiut as ought to be cen-
airedby this House, unless some good
reasons could be given for shewing, that it
was unavoidable ; yet surely, some such
zeasons may be given: we cannot sup-
DQiethe thing impossible; and therefore
I must think, the affiur haa not beei)
brought before iu in suoh a manner as
to efiable us to form any judgment, much
less to pass any censure upon it; for
sorelj we ought to have had the Secretary
at War before us, or such persons as could
best inform us, what were the reasons for
keqiing those regiments so long in that
place.
Thus, I hope, I have made it appear to
jour Iwdships, that the keeping of the
nme regimenta for a number of years in
Minorca, is either no fault, or not as yet
brought before us in a proper manner ;
tod as to giving leave or absence to too
great a number of officers at a time, I
believe the case will appear in much the
<3me light I shall grant, that to give
leave to too great a number of those
officers that are absolutely necessary for
the defence of the garrison, to be absent
atone and the same time, would be a very
peat fiuilt ; but that thus has ever been
woe, I think, there is at present no proof
before us; and as I really think the
iDethod of stating the fact in the first part
^ tills motion a little captious, I think it
^ficonsistentwith thedi^pity of this House
^ agree to it. Hiere is a great number
of offioen belonging to the garrison and
: VOL. XII. ]
troops in Minorca: For what I know
their number may amount to near S00|
and therefore I do not think it i|uite fair
to state the fact as it is in the motion, that
out of nineteen officers there are but five
present. Why, my lords, is the number
nineteen mentioned, as if that were the
whole number of officers belonging to the
place? It would have been, I think, more
fair to have mentioned the whole number
of officers belonging to the garrison and
troops, and the whole number absent. If
the fact had been stated in this method,
the proportion between the number absent
and the number present would not have
appeared near so great : It would have
appeared that the number present was
vastly greater than the number absent;
and from thence one inay see the reason
why the faa has been stated as ic now
appears upon the face of this question^
which is, in my opinion, a very strong
reason why your lonUbuips should not
agree to it.
But now, my lords, with ivgard to
those officers who have been proved al
your bar to be absent; there is not one
of them whose presence seems to me to
be absolutely necessary for the defence of
the place ; and if it should be attacked, I
believe, it would be successfully defended,
thoueh no one of them should be able lo
get thither during the whole time of the
attack. The gentleman who has now the
command, is a brigadier-general and
colonel of a regiment m your service, and
is a gentleman of an establi^ed character
both as to his honour and military know-
ledge; so that the place could no viray
suiier by the absence of its governor and
lieutenant-governor ; and the places of all
the rest are supplied by deputies, or by
other officers, who have done, and can da
the business equally well as if they them*
selves were present upon the spot.
. The leave of absence therefore siven toi
these officers, cannot be looked on as
any fault, and much less deserving your
lordships' censure ; but suppose there were
more of the officers absent than there are^*
our superiority at sea will always be an
excuse for indulging those officers with
leave of absence, whose health or private
ailairs require their presence at home ; for
while we retain this superiority at. sea, it
will always be in our power to send Hi&n
back as soon as we find it necessary;
and if ever we shouki be so unfortunate
as to lose this superiority, the presence
of our officers would be of little service ;
[ac]
9873
ISGEOBGEn.
DeidU M the Lords eomeniig
m
It woali contribute oblf %o increase the
triumph of our enemies end the disgrace
of our countiy; for it would be impossi-
ble for us to preserve the poisession of
Aai iflland ; and therefore^ if we should
ever happen to be in such an unfortunate
situation, instead of sending the absent
efficen thitfaery I should be for deserting
the island, and calline home as soon as
poasiUe both the offloers and men we
nappened then to ha?e upon that island ;
fiir ra such a case, we should have ooea-
aion for all our offlcets and all our men
Ibr defending our lait stake, the island of
Great Britain.
I find, mj lords, it has been insisted on
in this dtebate, as a great aggravation oi
fbm crhn^ that leave of absence has been
granted or amtinued to so many officers,
at a time wheti we, are in open war against
Spain, My lords, if we consider, that we
bate a squadron in the Mediterranean
aoperier to m^ the eaemy can fit out
to sea, and that we should always, I
kope, have such a squadron there at
mck a time, we must conclude, that we
may always depend more securely upon
Ike island of Min<M*ca's not being at-
tached in time of war, than we can de-
pend <;^>onits not bring attacked in time of
profound peace, when we have no sudi
jMpiadron in the Mediterranean; and
werefore, tf it were really true, and fblly
jj^ved, that leave of absence had been
HBMcceiaarily granted and continued to
too great a numier of officers, its being a
time of war would be an extenuation ra-
ther than an aggravation of that crime; so
that this cttcumstance ought to make us
the more cautious of procMding to a cen-
aiire of such conduct.
But suppose, my lords, it had been
made appear, that all the absent officers
sirs necessary for the defence of the place,
or that if it had been attacked, it would
iMve rw» a risk of being lost, by the ab-
aance of such a number of titem ; yet be-
lbi« you can proceed to censure, you
ousht, I think, to have the several leaves
laia before you, and the reasons for grant-
ing or contmuing every one of them ; for
if the health of the officers was such that
their presence could have been of no sw-
nification, the granting them leave of ab«-
aenee can be imput^ to no man as a
ermie ; therefore, I think, it is evident,
diet this affinr has not as yet been laid be-
fbre you in such a proper manner, as can
warrant your censuring the conduct of
^ ttfausters in this reqpect*
I come next, my lotds, to ooniderihe
complaint against the conduct of our mi.
nisters, in not having erected and finidied
die mtended fort called St. Anae; snd
here, indeed, I riiould have been very
much surprised, if any censure had beea
proposed ; for we have nothinjg be£we m
rdating to it, but the opiniott of one
single gentleman. His opinion I htre,
in£ed, a very great regara for; but eiea
his opinion ffoes no fiuther than to ny,
that it would render the conquest of the
island more difficuh for an invadmg eas-
my, because they must bring a greater
force against it, in whidi every man inuit
concur with him ; foor the more foirtiilGfr>
tions, and die greater number of trom
we have there, the conquest wiO certsisJy
be the more dilllcolt for an invading sne*
my. But this is not the question : die
question is, whether the forts and troepi
we have there, are sufficient for defaidiDg
the island, or at lemt the tamm of Fort*
naahon, aMinst such a small foicess may
be carried there at nnawarea, tfli we have
time to send a squadron fh>m hence widi
a sidcient force for its reKef. H'thie be
the case, our mlnistets have been la Ae
risht not to put the nation to die expsaoe
of erecting any new forts; bui this lis
reion we oammt no# doteimine: for
purpose we ought eerounly to hsve
an exact plan of the hdandl, with all in
fortifications, laid before us^ and we ought
to examine several offieers and engiaeefi
that have been there, in order to hare
their several ofMnions, and the ressooi
given by each man for hjsopinioti.
And suppose, my lords, tnat upon soch
an examination it should ^»pear, thst the
finishing of fort St. Anne was a work Unt
was extremely necessary fbr the secari^
of the island even agaioBt a sodden and mi-
forceoen invasion, yet our ministers mi^
stUl have a very good excuse for defemog
to pot the nauon to that expenee; be-
cause they ha^been of late venit so much
opposed by a strong par^ m poHiitmeBty
and every article or puMic ennence 00
much misrepresented to the pMpk, tfast I
do not wonder at their having been ^ of
addiw to that expenee, by any new un-
dertakings at a place so dfitantasIfOsor-
ca; so that tf the island diouU be last for
want of such additional forttteatieiis, tboes
who seem to beHhe a^roeaiea^for this no-
tion, would have more reason to ceBsuit
their own conduct, than they osM bars
{6t censuring the conduct of our ndaiatsiS'
The last oDttplaint^my hrdi, Itaift^
SB9]
the AiuMCi ^^fic€rtff^m Minorca*
A.B. «♦».
[39»
taheootibeof, ip thai trlHck fdates ta our
DOthflrioyMkeii m&mn»for conyerUn^
die inMntiWitfl of Minorca to pur own re*
iigioD. If ibis C019I4 bave b^n doao» 1
ahftQ gmk it fraRiU ^ve been a very de-
dnbfe tbws^ bul I aever heard that the
mbcan in any oauBtfy iwl tbemselvet up
ai refomeia of religioo, aiid much hm
tkal they ware ei^er ceiunirad A^ oat do*>
11^ Mn Btridef» 1 camot really at pre«
imtuka woo joe to de^noioe, hovr far
this would have been conaistent with our
fBMOliailawlbe lraalyofUtre<^t. I
mm^iH is inoonsiateat wth the civil go*
mwft aB4 lawa of Great Britain^ to
tab Bieaanrea for preaerving the Eoman
GitUkieijgkip in wy pavtof tbb tfilaiid;
kt I dodbl of its being iopooaatent,
diher 1^ «> *oar civil ^ovtnmeiit or Iaws»
WpfMc»<%at r^gMm mtfae island of
Mooreabr 1n0liavaiBadeaolaw,Ithink»
Kliipbm aioea we got pottMsrion of
n»d« and I do not at praaent i«col*
kctaiy lair made before thai time, that
Midi eur praadrving, or even estaUiah-
aig tha Baman Gamlio jeGgiw in any
Kv Qonfuaat we migbt make. There-
ioRiifva had taken mawirea for reform-
ing the iidiabitanfei of that island, and
iMtiag Ibe Roman Catholic religion out
d it| ifbicb would have been the conse*
(paaofr of converting all die inhabitants
to aur own xeligion» the Spanish court
vaold have had some reason to chaige ui
viib ahraaoh of ftidi, and a forfeiture of
osrri^tio dial Idand^by a breadi of the
coodiuanimon which it was yidded tous*
To tUs i must add, my lords, that if we
coaaider the natural obstinacy of the Spa^
nittday and their firm attachment to their
on vdigjoD^ 1^ shall find great reason to
fitttian, whether we coidd have met with
3 success in this converting^ scheme ;
if wejttd met with little or no success,
the attes^Nt would have entirely alienaled
y naads of the inhabitants, and would
hme made them more fcmd of xetuming
iDider.the dominion of Spain, than at pie-
'nt we can suppose them to be; sothatif
Qtt nunislen had made any such attempt,
vhidi by tho by^must have put us to a
pod deal, of expeace, and had met with
fueor no tuocess in that attempt, which
A all Dmhabilit;^ would have been the
^; I am ooimnced, the question now
"™re aswwildhave been, to censure their
coadttot for Having alienated the minda of
"^paopit of Minorca, by entering upon :
aiflfa a ohimerical undertaking,
l>Qps,iiy krdstlhavenaw ahevByttaat I
thero is BO solid ground fiw the oensuro
propos^ed by'this motion, nor for any of
the other complaints that have been mad^
^ipinst the conduct of our administradcn^
With regard to th^ island of Minorca ; bul^
suppose it Wj«re otherwise, I should be
agam^t such a general censure as is pro-
posed by the question now before us. 1£
there has been any neglect: if there hfm
been any fault, or any crime committed,
some pardcular persons must be guilty.
Let ua enter into a strict inquury : let us
call die sumcted persons before us, thas
they may &ve an opportunity to answer
for themsdves ; and if they can neither
justify nor excuse thcar conduct, let ua
censure, let us punish them according to
their doserts* By this means our censure
or punishment wiU &11 where it oughl^
won die guilty alone ; and the characteisa
or the innocent will be cleared from suspl*
cion. These are the two ends we ought to
propose in all our inquiries ; whereas by
the general censure now proposed, the
guiUy m^y escape that punishment they
deserve, and the inoooent will be loaded
with a susDiciou of hating neglected the
honour ana interest of their country*
But, my lords, if we were to enter ibto
such an inquire aa I have mentioned, wo
ought to consid^ die times we are in, and
the ticklish situadon those dial are at the
head of our a&ini must always be in* A
seneral relaxation oi government* or ai
least of that severe discipline which is kept
up in atbitrary countries, seems at present
to be the reigning vice in this Ungdom;
and considermg the nature of our constilu*
don, it is very difficult for our ministers t0
rectify or put a stop to it. They must
have the concurrence of two very nuiper^
ous assemblioB in all their measures: thof
must have the eood will of both those as?
semblies, or, atleast, of a majority in each^
even for their own salbty and protecdottts
and therefore they must be eSLlremely
caudous of disobliging any man dial has a
vote m either of dioee assemblies, or a
sreat interest at any election. If they re^
^e any such man an indu^nce whtti bo
thinks It may be granted with safety to tho
public; if they inmose upon him any moro
exact or severe disci^ine than he thinltt
necessary fcyr the puMic service, he looks
upon it as a personal injur3r,and from thai
moment resolves to join wkb the opposi^
don both in parliament, and at ekictioo^
Therefore, if^our ministcfrs do connive a
little at things, which inan aibitrarygoven^
men! wwld be l^obd- to ail negiacfih of
991]
1 J 6EORGB U.
Debate in the Lards concerning
\W&
duty: iftheydoadykehismajeBtjrtogFimi^
seme such indulgencies as might tuelvy
ttid would (^rtainly be denied by an ab-
solute monarch, such complaisance ought
not in them to be looked on as criffliBal.
It is an inconvenience necessarily attending
our happ^r constitution, and an inconve-
Bienee which they must submit to^ for the
sake of carrying on the necessary ends of
government) as well as for their own safety
and protection.
wheh we consider these things, my
lords, I do not think we can suppose there
has been any neglect, with 'regard to the
island of Minorca, that deserves a parlia-
mentary inquiry, much less a parliamen-
tary censure ; and as we have had no suffi-
cient previous inquiry, for giving a foun-
dation to such a censure as is proposed by
this motion, I hope your lordships will
join with me in putting a negathre upon
the motion,
71ie Earl of Chesterfield:
My lords; I am very much surprised,
the noble and learned ford should so far
mistake the intention of this motion, and
the usual method of proceeding in this
House, as he seems to do in what he has
been pleased to say upon the subject. The
motion now before us is not intended as a
censure upon persons, either in general or
particular ; and if your lordships intend to
tnake any proper inquiry into this afiair,
what IS now proposed is absolutely neces-
sary as a previous step to that inquiry ; for
as the character of the fact is a little doubt-
ful, I mean as to its being culpable or no,
it is absolutely necessary your lord^ips
should determme this question before any
lord can stand up in his place, and pro-
pose a regular inquiry into it. Surely
your lordships would not, nor can any
lord propose, you should give yourselves
the trouble to mquire intoafact, which, in
your opbion, is not in the least culpable,
even though it should appear to be true in
«very particular, and should be brought
liorae to Uie door of its true &ther. The
inquiry hitherto made, has only been to
know, whether such a fact rciOly existed :
by that inquiry you find it does : you have
Imd it M\f proved by the papers upon the
ti^le, and by the exaoEiinatton of a gentle-
man at your bar, whose knowledge, ho-
nour, or veracity, I dare say, no one of
your lorddiipg will question; and now
iBome lords in this House, of iriiom I am
proud of being one, who think this &ct
UffUy culpaUe,destce by this motion to
know, if yout lordships are of the
opinion. If your lordtfiips join with as in
opimon, with relation to this fiiet, and
some odiers that have been mentioned, to
be sure the next step will be a motkm for
a regular inouiry into the whole affiur, m
order to find out the pemons who have
been guilty of such dangerous Defects;
and if they can no way justify themselves,
I hope your lordships will proceed a little
farther than a bare censure up<m their con-
duct.
Having thus, my fords, stated ina&ir
and dear light the true design, and the
necessity of this motion, I must next re-
move the objection made by the learned
lord, of its being captious and un&ir to
state the fiust in the manner in which it is
stated in this motion ; for upon due con-
sideration it will appear, that to have stated
it in any other manner would have been
unfhir, and would have bred confusion.
In evenr wrison, my lords, there are two
sorts of officers, oae of which properly be-
long to the place, and the other to the
troops upon duty in that garrison. The
former eiwayn remam, or at least ought to
remain in Uie place, whereas the others are
ofien removing and dianging ; became
the reppiments they belong to are some-
times m one garrison, and sovneUmes ia
another. As Uie condition of these two
sorts of officers is very difierent, it would
therefore have been both unfiur and irre-
gular to have confounded them together
m one modon, and would certainly have
been most reasonably objected to. For
this reason it was thought necessary to con-
sider them distinctly; and as our inqoiry
relates to Minorca, it was certainly ri^ht
to begin with that sort of officers which
properly belong to that island. Of this
sort there are 19, and of these 19, we find
there are no less than 14 absent. This is
the reason for stating the fact as it is
in the motion, and I appeal to yomr lord-
ships, if it ooukL fairly and r^ularly have
been stated in any other manner. If your
lordships agree to this motion, it may then
be proper to consider how many officers
are absent, and how many men are want-
ing, in the regiments now upon du^
there ; but if your lordships do not thialc it
blaipe-worthy to allow 14 officers out of
19 to be absent at such a critical time, tbst
is to say, if you do not agree to this mo-
ticm, I am sure, I shall not desire to trou-
ble you with any other question upNon this
subject. However, I think I am in du^
obliged to forewarn your loidships, thstif
m]
the Absence qfOficenfram Minorca*
A. D. 1742;
[394
ever this island should be lost by any fu-
tore neglect, the irhole nation will impute
the loss to your having put a negative at
dik time upon such a motion, which is
in imputation your lordahipe oug^t, I
duiii^ to take care to prevent ; for after
thek» is mcurred, no punishment you
cao inflict upon the persons guilty, will be
an stonement for your former indiffisrence,
which will be considered as the original
caiKe of that lost.
I diall ROW, my lords, beg leave to con«
sider what the noble and learned lord has
been pleased to say, in excuse for allowing
so imoy officers properly belonging to the
place to be absent at this time. In excuse
for the absence of the governor and lieute-
nant governor, he hM been pleased to
give OS, 1 believe, a very just character of
the gentleman who commands there, and
sa)?, that this gentleman, besides his own
proper duty, will do the duty both of go-
venior ancl lieutenant gewemor equuly
veil as if they were present. If it were
jKHsibie to suppose this, why should the
nadon be pot to the expenoe of a large
nlary to a governor, and another large
niary to a liaitenant governor ? But, my
lords, it b not possible to make such a
npposittoo : the nation is in the ri^ht to
grant those salaries, in order to mduce
gentlemen of fiHrtune, as well as distinction,
to go over and take the command upon
them ; because their fortunes at home will
beapiedj^ for their fidelity abroad, and
lUIr distinction will set them above any
temptation the enemy can offer. We
may be secure, perhaps, 1 believe we
*^ in the honour and fidelity of the
gentleman who is now chief in command
there ; but he may die suddenly, or in
<^ of an attack, he taaj be kiUed, and
then the chief command will dev<dve upon
tcolood, perhaps a lieutenant colonel of
a oarchinff regiment, who may perhaps be
* DKre aoMier of fortune ; and what effect
thepiomige of agreat estate and great ho-
P^^w in Spain, with a considerable rank
m their army, may have upon such a man,
DOQoe can tell; firom whence it is plain,
that the island cannot be so safe in the
thaence of the governor and lieutenant
governor, as it would be, were they both,
or but one of them present.
^^, my lords, as to the other absent
^^im, it is said, that their duty is per-
""^edby deputies or by other officers,
*|f»lly w^ as if they were present If
l^vere true, I am sure, it would be a
1^ veason for. fireemg the public from
the expence of maintaining them, which
would notbe a very agreeable doctrine to
our minister, and therefore I am surprized,
that his friends should afibrd such a foun-
dation for it« But luckily for him the
thin^ is impossible : it is impossible that a
gamson can be as well served by a sur-
geon's mate, as by a surgeon and his matOn
especially if it were attacked, and many
wounded men to take care of; and it is
impossible to suppose, the nation can put
as much trust m a low feUow that will
serve as a deputy, as it may do in the prin-
cipal. I shall grant, tfaiat the place of
those officers belonging to the non-osten-
sible fort, may be easify supplied, because
they have as vet no duty to perform ; but
if they were there, they would serve as so
many sujpernumeraries ; and surely a place
that is besieged may be the better de-
fiended, the more supernumeraries it has ;
unless it be to be taken by starving.
The place is therefore in every respect
the weaker, the more officers are absent;
and to say, that we may more certainly
depend upon not bemg attacked in time of
war than in time of peace, is someUiine
very extraordinary. I have often heard it
advanced by some lords, in time of peace
as an argument for not reducing our army,
that we are more in danger of an invasicm
here at home, in time of peace, than in
time of war ; but I never heard it said by
those lords in time of war, that we might
reduce our army, because at such a tmie
we have alwajrs a superior squadron ready
to defend us against an invasion. On the
contrary those very lords are always upon
such an occasion for augmenting our army,
because we cannot putan entire confidence
in our superior squadron; and why there
should be such a difference of sentiments
with regard to the safety of the island of
Minorca in time of war, I cannot com-
prehend. But luckily for this argument,
my lords, we very lately found we nad not
a superior squadron in Uie Mediterfanean ;
for if admiral Haddock had been superior
or but near equal to the united squadrons
of Frahce and Spain, I am sure, he would
have attacked tnem : he would have dis-
dained to allow any French adiAiral to tdi
him, * You shall not attack the declared
enemies of your country, because they are
under my protection.* This is a demon-
stration, Uiat in time of war we cannot al-
ways de|>end upon baring a superior
sc^uadren in the Mediterranean, unless our
mmisters have better intelligence thaa
they se^n to have had i^Kxn th^ occasion.
anj
15QE0B«&II.
iMiU^kithfLviylicmuuBhg
[aM!
toth in time of w«r and injtm^ of penooi
bB» fifccinHy in tim^of mur, .Ipliaveibo
giixffiKMi of MtDorcft fiitfj lurovidei vilb
«ikei«a8 weU as men; and therefore it
mat ba aUowed to ha^e baaa a keinoua
neglect, to perwt m numy oficeia to be
aMHitat a tuna of aoch innBioeBt daager.
The vr9^ of health m the ahaent oficera
oaa ha BO exouae for this neglect ; beoaufla
if thqr eeuld aea return to their duty,
otheia ov^jfat to have beea Bentiaiheir
There ean bo no cxcuee fi>r thia
s not eras a atipulation with the
Fmehy that they wadd not aMeur the
SpaniaivM to attack Minorea; for, I am
awie, itvoiiUlbe very umrieom aBriliah
wimt»f% to leave our peaiBMion of that
iriani depending upon the fiwkh of a
Frandi troAtf . Bat if it could be tup*
pai^paeaible to form an exctiie» it ii no
arj^oment apainat thia motkm ; baeauaa
IhaiaMtiaB la but a previous atep toan b-
ffaxff and we must judge of the tut as it
now apijeara to US. If upon the rank of
an. inijuiry the paraaaa accuMd can at*
lege anif thing m their own nndkatian,
we dholi then have an opportunitv to eo*^-
' aidar it» and I am snie, your kxdbhipa wifl
hMr it with candour, and judge of it with
impailiaUty*
\nuitlWe said, my lords, woidd, I
lUnk, be suiicient for justifying the mo»
tton now before jrou; but as several other
eompUma have been i;nade^ and as the
iM)le and learned lord has endeovoorod to
entwiarthoae complaii^lslM beg leave
eaamke a few observatioos upon his
avteasb The complaint against
aome aegiments toera for such a great
manber of years, is a most just one, not
Qtiy on account of liheir being so long
kqpt out of their own native coujotry, but
en aocount of the extraoofinaiy expence
bodieffioeis and soldiers. are put to. The
latter, indeed, cannot increaae their ea&-
{MBoe, but tJb^ must diminish in the
mianti^ or quauhr of their oonsunmtion;
ur as aU sorts of pnivisions are oearer
these than in theb mother eountry, gene*
aaBy occasioned by the taxesand prohibi*
liima hnposad by their governors, and as
their pay is no higher than it would be
here at home, th^y must eat anddrmk leas *
or of a worse i)Ua1i^, than tfaej need do .
hece at home* This is a grievance in
eommon both to the officers and soldiers ;
hut with segard to the ^Bceim, th^ h«re
another, and a most insuflfarable grievanoe
to complain of; for Aoiighytheir aecwiiting i
food be no laffger then whatisalkieedto
the r^mentsberaathome^ yet the gmtie-
man Mohasbeeeexaoiieed atoarmrhai
told yout and, indeed, every one kaovc,
diat the reqniithigofa company stMi-
noroaooats the captain ten timesaimiidi
as it would do ifhia regiment were in Bri-
tain or Ireland ; so that 1 wonder we do
not hear of some of the oaptains, as wdi
as the coBunoe mens shooung themseives I
through the head on mcxvnmt of the I
regioients beii^ice^ so lengin that u-i
kwid.
The noUe load sa^a, these aeeidenti are!
owing to its being MnpeasiUe for men to i
desert from the r^knenta in that idsnd;
that such eocidems wouidbeaafoeaueitst
home, were it aa impoasihte for me men
le desert; aedthatthis is an incenvenienoe
attending the a^ice^ adiich nsfliat be en*
dwed because it cannot be nrevcotri.
My lords, we anay at least aibvithe coo>
man aolcUers in MjoMX^ once in sera
jrcava, an opportunity to deaeit, hj hrin|^
i^gthem home to their earn country: bot
here even at home» the inoaovcnienoe may
beprevented: the noble lord knows, that
a remedy haa been prqmsed hi pariiamept;
and be likewise knows by whose influace
that remec^ was rmeeted. I. mean, that
of giving everjf aaldier a liberty, under
proper restxicHooa, to draw hia own dis«
chaijge, afker a etrtain number of yeaa
serviee. This would prevent the creel cf*
fecli of that despair whiah aoUtera are
oflten drove to, by being tied for life not
only to serve, but to serve wader the cobh
mand of an officer who tieats tbem iiL |
This is really a most terrible hasdship, and j
a hardship wfaidi ia a scandal upon oar |
government. We boast, n^ lords, ia this
country of oar beii^ freemen, atad re-
proach the French with their b^nf atsffes; |
out I willsay, that while this harcuhip le* ,
mains, an English sddier is mudi more a |
slave than any soldier in Bcance can be^
or ever is made; and, I thkok it a moat
prepoatecoQS regulation in n free oountcy,
to make slaves ^those who ace to defand
theliberties of their county,
I shall grant, my iords, tfast the Iran*
spouting of a regiment to Minorca, snd
bringing another from thenoe? n»ist si-
ways be attended with a pid>lic eoqieiicei
but tet it be what expeooe it will, it ought
to be done, both for the aake of oar sol^
diers, and for the sake of presenoag that
island; for it wiU oestainly be an inanoe*
ment to the soldiers there, to make bats
foint resistunoeagMnstaninvadiag cneivfi
97] tie Miatu tfOjgiurtfnm MS$urca.
JL JX I7«e.
VM
wbeo diej htHmef they faavft no «dMr
dunce for efer getting nonie to their na*
tive oonnliy; And ttaoai^ there may
tore been a Ut^e wmm^ of puUic money
by keeping the same regiments at Minorca
fdragfcstnumberof yeaie,yet I cannot
impate their being kept there to a fnotive
efstnn^t in those who hare been eo hnlih
df jrablic mcmey ia citery other respect.
l^ither feaeon nor ehavfty can indoce me
(0 believe, that a kootm proifigal sates a
aecemy expence, from a mere motire of
arriag; espectaUy when several other mo-
thres msjr be asBttfned.
The esse is i£e same, my lordSi with
legnd to the intended fon called St
Anne: oar not having added to the
ibrefigth of the island by erecthig that
liirt, csBDot^ I am 8iite»be iseribed to any
■odfeof saving the puUiG mmney^in those
vbo hsvetbrown so nnidi away in building
wMtesMu^ castles at home^ and who have
eartnued m pay, for sucAi a ami^r of
jein, the offleers designed for that fan
taxied foi«» Bat the buildhig tff soch a
fat use net| it seems^ thought necesear^ :
IdsBot kaow^ my lol'ds» what oar wise
nahters thot^bt; l^ evetr man who
ha ever had a description of tliBt inland
ibnki otherwise. It is a known Ituth^
aid rasf too Soon^ I fear» be fimnd by ex*'
pcrieoee to be so, that if aiiy enemy
Aoold U«d wkh a safficient amy in the
idnid, our gartisoii at Portnalion'woold
be oWged to surrender^ before we cenld
bne sn aeeoant here, i^ anv enemy's
being kaded in that island. It is theVe*
fereexoeosehr neeeseaiy to have thW ftnt
«ected; ana the more so» beceose we
bmr^tettiieinhibicaati have not a good
dsiKMhion toward os^
Her this codies to be so, I shsll not
Mvptetend to detemthie ; hot I think, it is
«cO vofth oar inquiry: and it is very
cenais, that if the inhabitants liad been
needy eonverted' to the Protestant reli-
gioB^ we coidd have more safefy d«>ended
opoB dieir fidelity. This we might have
ittenptedf notwidtstanding onr engage*
Bcoli by the treaty of Utrecht to pre-
ferre die Roman Cadiolic reMgion in that
■hod; 6r I must di£Rer from the leaned
M ipon this head : I most think, that
Aepravho venders the engiq^ement void^
tsdwae ibr that verr purpose added by
t^dienmhJstfeis, who were as able ne-
Kwaeien as any we have had since. Td
<>^ nsasares ibr preseHing the Roman
(^<iMb reB|^n ih a new conqoest may
wbesgatetanyeaptese statute, but, I
amsafe, it is inconsislentwitfa our rtiigtm
and coDScieooe ; I afmeal to the levetend
bench if it is not; and I eannot thiiA that
what k inconsistent with onr reHgwi and
toHsdeiicei can be consisteiit iHlli onf
laws or civil government. I shall grant,
indeed, that we have not of late yeass
made any new and severe laws against
Pimistsi for their religion has been moM
indulged by our present minister^ tUn
ever it was by any minister since ^ ra*
formation; tliough I must observe^ that
the learned lord seems to foiget the sweov^
nig act, when he says, that no lawhasbestt
hSblj made acainst Papists. 8ut what*
ever we may ao here at home, we ought
to take all possible measures for having as
many IVotestants al we can open tha
island of Minorca, beeause the Reman Ga-^
tholics there, especially the old inhabits
ants that continue m t£at religion, win al*^
ways have some inclinatkm to tatam ondet
the dominion of tiie Spaniard.
I coilie now, mv lords, to the last argu-
ment made use of by the noble iMd, as aii
excwe for all the tickets our numstett
h»re been guilty of. He says« th^ can-
not relbse favours, or enfotve a strka Hb*
servance of dut^, upon any eficer whu
has a vote in parliament or an imotust at
eleotionsi because it would make hhn johi
the opposition asahist them. Myhsrdsi
theiy must be went mkdsteta who ftrepiMK
seesed with any such fbars: Ifthoasintft#
admioistfation take care to pursue wiedy
and steadily the trae intereM of the nai^
tiaD) they may desirise any opposition thai
proceeds ilNnii private pique or resent*
aient. Bcft if there were ahv tfahig ot
weMit hi this ai|piment, #o«dd it ttot^ my
lonb, be a strong argument, for enteluding
aD or most officers or placemen^ IWmdii faav-
ing seats in pailiasienti and for proldbit*
hig thein to vote cfr make kiterest at any
election. Thus it has fallen out veiy an*
lockHyin this debate^ that almost every
argument made use of against thii motion^
happens to be an argunpient in fikvour of
something our ministers have tqk>n fbimer
occasionaahewn themselves averse to. ^
Having thus, I hope> ftdly answered
evei^ thing thathas been said against the
motion, or in excuse for the negfeots com-
plained of, i shall condade with an ob*
serration or two upon the importance of
this island, which tne noble lord seems te
think not so important as has been repre*
seated. I shall grant, my lords, we had #
trade in uie Mediterranean, peitiapa larger
than we have now, before we bao-p^tses^
8893
15 GEORGE n.
ProUtt on rejecting the Resobitions*
[400
ikm of this island ; but I will insist upon
it» that we never had before such an ex-
tensive or such a free navigation in that
aea, as we have had since. It is well
known, that before we got possession of
Minorca and Gibraltar, our navigation in
the Mediterranean was almost continually
infested by the pirates of Morocco and
die^arbary coast, insomuch that we were
obliged to make laws for obliging the mas-
ters of our merchant ships to fiffht those
pirates, and our ships employed in the
Mediterranean trade were generally large
sh^is, and provided both men and guns
for ^hting, .which was a great expeace
to our merchants, and a great burthen
upon our trade* Whereas, since we got
possession of those two places, those pi-
rates have been, 1 may say, constantly at
peace with us, so that we soon became
the only carriers in the Mediterranean,
and continued so till by our authority we
procured the Dutch a peace with the Al-
gerines, in order to prevail with them to
nvour our ministers with a sort of sham
accession to the famous treaty of Hanover.
My lords, we must not conclude, that
because we had a trade in the Mediterra-
nean before we got possession of the island
oif Minorca, therefore we may be able to
continue that trade after the loss of that
idand. Before we had it, my lords, we
had but few rivals in the Mediterranean
trade, and could ther^ore bear the ex-
pence we were put to, and die losses we
sustained by toe depredations of those
pirates ; but we have now so many rivals,
especially the French, that we could not
hw it ; and therefore, if we should lose
Minorca, and those depredations should
be renewed, which would be the certain
consequence, I doubt much, if we could
have any trade, I am almost sure, we
should have very little navigation in the
Mediterranean. The importance of this
island cannot therefore, in my opinion, be
exaggerated; and for this reason, I hope
Tour lordships will shew your care of it,
by agreeing to this motion.
Then the question being put, it was re-
solved in the negative, N. C. 69, C. 57.
Protest on rejecting tfie sdid Resolu-
tions.2 The following Protest was en-
tered on the Journals.
, " Dissentient'
1. ** Because we conceive, that as the
f^t stated in the former part of the ques-
tion, appeared plainly from the paper laid
before this House by the proper officer.
and neither was nor could be conti^erted
by any one lord, the censure contained in
the latter part of the question was not only
just, but as gentle as so evident a neglect
of so important a place, at so critical a
time, could possibly allow. The prindpalt
if not the only argument made use of by
those lords who opposed the motion was,
That the censure was general, and pointed
at no particular persons, which we rather
apprehend to be a proof of the justice and
moderation of that censure, as it could
tlien only light upon the guilty whoever
they were ; and we are indmed to believe,
that had the censure been applied to any
particular persons, the contrary argument
would have been urged, and the injustice
of a particular censure, without prooti^
sounded high, though possibly, at the same
time, the necessary means of getting at
those proofs might have been rendered dit-
ficult : That out of nineteen officers paid
upon the establishment of Minorca, four-
teen were absent, among whom were the
governor, the deputy governor, and the
governor of Fort St. rhilip, was a &ct
aisputed by none, though the dighteat cen*
sure of it was opposed by the majority of
the House. We therefore hope, thatpos'
terity, to whom we thus appeal, will not
only approve of our conduct in this mo-
tion, but will likewise, from the ill succe^
of it, find reasons to excuse our not at-
tempting many others of the like nature.
2. *' Because, when we consider the ten-
der i^pprehensions of the administration
for the island of Minorca, in the year 1740,
when, upon information received, that a
few traces were marching to the coasts of
Catalonia, and a few tartanes assembled
in the port of Barcelona, orders (possibly
obscure from that precipitation which the
emergency required) were sent to our
admirals in the Mediterranean, to provide
immediately for the defence of thstiskod,
even by going there with their whole
force, if necessary ; by the execution or
mistake of which orders, the Spanish
squadron was suffered to ss^ from Cadiz to
the West Indies, to the imminent danger
of our fleets and possessions there; we
cannot well account for that profound se-
curity in which the administration seemed
to be the last year, with regard to that
valuable possession, when an embarkation
of fourteen or fifteen thousand men, and
above two hundred transport-ships was
publicly preparing at Barcdona, and con-
sequently within eight and forty hours sail
of Minorca, which embarkation soon sfUr
1
401] Proceedings on the Chippenham Election.
went imdisturbed to Italy: but we fear
this inconsistent conduct may gire too
much credit to insinuations lately scattered
in public, that the British ministers were
as secure that Minorca would not be at-
tacked by the Spaniards, as tlie Spanish
ministers were that their embarkation
would sail to Italy undisturbed by our
squadrons in the Mediterranean.
3. ** Because it appears, that about the
same time that major-general Anstruther
left that island^ by leave from the secre-
tary at war, which was on the 15th of
Fi^roaiy last, admiral Haddock informs
the secretary of state, in a letter of the
IQth of the same month, that by the latest
Jettcre from Mr. Consul Bfrtles, he men-
tions, " That a Spanish embarkation is
^ actuaUy intended, and though the first
*^ design was on a sudden dropped, the
'* last intelUgence declares the same to be
^ renewed again ;'^ which information, we
conceiTe, was sufficient to have excited
greater apprehensions fdr the danger of
that island, than seem to hitve been enter-
tained, since no one step appears to have
been taken thereupon for its defence^ or
anj leave of absence recalled; but the
whole government was suffered to devolve
to a lieutenant-colonel of one of the regi-
ments there.
4. *< Because it appeared by the exami-
nation of major-general Anstruther at the
bar, that when he left Minorca about the
15th of February last, above 700 men were
vranting to complete the regiments there,
and near the same jproportion of officers
absent: that the private soldiers were so
uneasy at having been there so long, that
Dttn J destroyed themselves from despair,
and many maimed themselves to get dis-
cbarged. That should the island be at-
tacked, the inhabitants would, in his opi-
pion, certainly join the Spaniards; that
in his (pinion too, that island was always
in danger when our enemies were superior
in the Mediterranean, wliich has been for
soffle time, and is still the case. All
vbich circumstances concur to prove the
^8nger, the neglect, and the justice of
(insuring such a neglect at such a time.
5. ^ Because it was said in the debate
W those whose high stations best enable
™nn to know, • That a general relaxation
*ofgoverament, and abuses of this nature,
* were the vices of the present age.' A
toelancholy truth ! which we conceive is
'^ fer from being an argument for impu-
^> that it evinces the necessity, at least,
« censoring such as we can attain to the
A. D. 1742. [402
knowledge and proofs of. And indeed we'
have but too much reason to believe, that
the several abuses committed in .the several
branches of the government, unpunished
at least, if not connived at, have already
produced effects too sensiUy felt by this
nation ; which abuses, from the nature of
things, necessarily multiply themselves,
and if not speedily checked, must soon
forge a chain of reciprocal and criminal
dependency, too strong for even the au-
thority of Uiis House to break, too heavy
for the constitution to bear.
6. *< Because the "motion for an address,
offered in lieu of this question, in which
the same fact is stated in its full extent,
but without the least censure annexed to
it, is, in our opinion, not only unpreoe-
dented, but inconsistent with the honour
and dignity of this House, as it may seem
calculated to screen the guilt it avows ;
and as it may be thought to intimate future
impunity for public crimes, if balanced by
private ministerial merit. Artifice may
elude inquiries, or prevent detection ; le-
nity may censure a crime, yet spare tho
criminal ; but mankind, we fear, may be
at a loss to acpount for what motives so
criminal a neglect, fully stated, proved
and admitted, could escape without cen-
sure ; or may ascribe it to such as would
afiect the reputation, and consequently
lessen the authority of this House.
f Signed) Sandwich, Dunk. Halifax,.
Greenwich, Carlisle, Shafbbury,
. Northampton, Maasel, Chester-
field, Leigh, Aylesbury, Falmouth,
Craven, Talbot, Abingdon, Cob-
ham, Ward, Bridgewater, St. John,
Oxford and Mortimer, Exeter,
Foley, Denbigh, Litchfield, Beau-
fort, Ric. Lich, and Cov. SufibUc,
Haversham, Berkeley de Strattoo,
Westmoreland, Thanet, Bathurst, ^
Ric. Lincoln', Clinton, Hereford, '
Grower, Aylesford, Clifton, Mac-
clesfield, Bedford.''
Proceedings on the Chippenham EleC'
tion.l Jan. 28. The House proceeded to
the hearing the Petition or Alexander
Hume, and John Frederick, esqrs. com-
plaining of an undue election and return for
Chippenham ; and, after hearing counsel,
and examination of divers witnesses, amo-
tion was made, and the question put, ** That
in the last determination of this House, of
the right of election of members to serve
for the borough of Chippenham, made
the 9th of April, 162^, which is, * That
[2D]
15 OEORGB IL
The
408]
* the new charter dtert not (tut caiton ;
'and that the bturgetties and fVeemen^
* mote than twelTe^ hare voice in the elec-
* tion/ the «rord8» * Burgesses and Free-
' men/ mentioned in the said Resolution,
mean only sudi burgesses and freemen^ as
are Inhabitants householders of the ancient
bouses, called free or burgage*houses,
within the said borouffh ;'* it patted in the
ne|ative, hySS? against 2S6.*
Feb. 2. The House proceeded to the
fkrther hearing of the said Petition ; and
the counsel for the petitioners desired to
know what aiBrmative construction the
House would make of the words, * Bur«
* gesses and Freemen/ mentioned in the
last determination of the House concern-
ing the right of electing burgesses to serve
for the said borough ; the House having
determined^ that the said words do hot
mean only such burgesses and freemen,
as are innabitants householders of the
ancient houses, called feet or burgi^
houses, within the said borough. The
counsel on both sides being withdrawn,
it was resolved, by a majority of ^1
voices asainst 225, '' That the counsel
be called in, and directed to proceed ac-
cording to the last determination of the
House, of the right of election of mem-
bers to serve for the said borough, made
the 9th of April 1624, and according to
what the House did resolve on Thur^lay
last, concerning the said determination/^
Then afler a mrther hearing of counsel,
the House was informed, that the peti-
tioners desired to give the House no far-
tfier trouble. Hereupon it was severally
resolved, that sir Edmund Thomas, hart,
and Edward Bayntun Rolt, esq. were
* «« At length, on the 98th, the opposition
finally triumphed. A question on the Chip-
penbaai Electioo was carried a<raiasl the minis-
ter, by a tn^wity of one, 937 against SS6,
and the party gained so oonsiderabie an acces-
sion, by the aescrtion or absence of several
members of the court party, that the final de-
cision of the Chippenham Election was carried
against the minister, by a majonty of 16 ; 941
against 995. Walpole seemed to have antici-
pated this event, and met it with his usual
Ibrtitnde and cheerfblness. While the tellers
were perfbrauBg their office, he beckoned sir
Edward Bayntoo, the member whose return
was supported by opposittou, to sit near him,
spoke to biro with great complacency, anioiad-
verted on the ingratitude of several individuals
who were voting against him. on whom he had
eonferred great favour, and declared he would
never again sit in that House." Coxe's Me-
moiia of dr R. Walpole.
JiSii^ adjfmrm the ParUameni. [4M
didy elected for flie said boraugh of Ch^
penham.*
The King adjourns the PariiamaU^
Sir Robert fValpole resigns his Places, and
is created Earl of Orford^The Prince of
Wales conciliatM-^Meeting of the Opp(h
sition at the Fountain Tavern-^-Great Jer'
meni in the Nation — Ministerial Changeu']
On the Srd of February, the Loid Chan-
cellor signified his majesty's pleasure, that
both Houses of Parliament shoidd severallv
adjourn to the 18th instant. On the 9th
of Febniary,t sir Robert Walpole w»
* ^'JanoarydO. I wrote by the last post, and
then said that we wens upou the Chippenbam
election. We debated a (mint in relation to tbe
disqualifying votes till 13 o'clock, aiid we kxtit
by one, tbouffb there never was a clearer esse in
the world. Ijord Donerail voted agidnst ni ;
aod unless our affaits change mooh fur ibt
better, I don't imagine we shall often have Urn
agaiD. Howef er we may, for all this, canv
tbe eledioQ. Bat we have a pareel of sow
shal>by fellows that will not aUend. To ipoak
plainly, I am afraid we have only a majoritj of
about 14, and as a great many of our peopts
will not aUend elections, and that others aaikt
a point of it, they will, I really think, get tiit
better of us by determiniug all the elections is
their own favour*"
« February 2. Sir Robert has hitherto kept
up his spirits tolerably well, but I think I cid
perceive that be is now uneasy ; and indeed I
am afraid he has very good reason to be lo;
for I really believe, and so do most of bii
friends, that (he other party, in three weeks
time, must get a majority by the alterations in
elections; lor we have a great many people,
that have declared Um wQI not attoM them
any more. Lord Bfiddfesex for oiie$ and loid
John has hardly attended any yet We hope
we shall secure ChippeDbam to day, and I win
we may r'* Coxe's Walpole : Correspondence;
marquis of Ilartiogton to tbe duke oi Devoa-
shire.
f From the Seeker Manuscr^tm
•< Febmary 8. Sir R. Walpole waspreMflled
at court as earl of Orford. He was persoided
to refuse a grant of 4,000/. a year during die
king's life and his own, but could not be dis-
suaded from accepting a letter of honour from
the king, to grant his natnrdt daugfitir, Maria,
precedence as an earl's daughter, who was ti^
presented this day. llie same thing bsd been
done for three daughters of Scrope, earl of
Suaderiand, who left no latvfal fsBue, and from
one of whom lord Howe is descended/'
" February 11. LordOrfoi^ and sir Cluurles
Wager resigned . Mr. Sandys kissed hands is
Chancellor of tl^e Exchequer. Lord Wilmiog-
ton declared First Commissioner of the Trea-
snry. Offers made to the duke of Argjle but
refitted. None to l<ml ChtftetfieM.'^
40S]
ISr Bobert Walpole resigns.
A. D. 1742.
r4Q6
creetadcarl of Orfoid, «iid on the lltb
he reigned bjs fisceB.
Remnctipg ibe resigaalion of sir "Ro*
bert Walpole and the fomuttion of the
new mmistr^y Mr» Coxe gives the CoUow*
jog intereftiog particulars :
*' It IS asserted by a cootemporaxy his-
torim fTiadal] vho possessed great
meaos m iBfonnation, that the minister
irottld have sooner retired^ if the state of
the nation and of parties had not rendered
his GODtinuance in power necessary for
die arrsngement of a new administrationy
sad for preserving the tran^lity^ of the
oooQtry ; and that be continued in office
Mlehr in compliance with the wishes of
bis friends. The papers which have been
coBifflitted to nay mqpection, and the un-
doubted information which I have receiv-
sdy enaUe me to contradict this aBsertion.
He retired unwillingly and slovly: no
shipwrecked pilot ever clung to the rudder
of a aiokinff vessel with greater pertinacity
than he did to the helm of state ; he did
not relinquish his post until he was driven
from it by the desertion of his followers
and the oanours of the public. Speaker
Onslow, who knew him well, declared
thai he rpluct^nriy quitted his station;
and if any doubt stiM remains, we have
the testimony of the minister himself.
" I mast infonn you," he observes in a
letter to the duke of Devonshire, *^ that
the mmic was so great among — what shall
I call them? — my ownfriendsy thatthi^
aD declared that my netirins; was become
absolutely necessary, as Ae <mly means
to cany on the public bjosinesa with
honour and success."
** Ithas beeo ^also asserted with no less
confidence, that the hioig himself was he-
come weary of a minister, who had so
kag directed his affairs, who had so often
opposed and obatructed his inclination for
var, and who was stUl endeavouring .to
KmoYe every obstacle which Impeded the
ntom of peaoe- Bujt the same docu^
meats eoaUe me to adduce an honourable
teitimony of .the good faiith and firmness .
of Geaige the second. Althoi^h ^e
asperities which time .and vexation acfifiL-
lionedjii both their tempers, produced <a
Ottoentary disaatisStction, yet Ihe king
Bad coatractedt by longbanii andexpe-
'iQM^ of his capacity for business, a h^ ]
rand esteem for his Jong-tried coun-
In vai9 the ead of Wilmir^ton
•nd the duke of Dorset Jbad .enforced the ;
IJBoeaii^ of his removalt the resolution of
consent to his resi^tion until the minister
himself made it bis express desire*
*^ The interview when he took leave of
^he king was highlj^ a&cting. On kneel**
ing down to kiss Ins hand, the king burat
into tears, the ex-minister was so moved
with that instance of regard, ^bat b? con-
tinued for some time in that posture ; aai|
the king was so touched, that |ie wafi
unid)le to raise him from the ^roundp
When he at length rose, the king testified
his regret for the loss of so faithima cou^
sellor, ei:pressed his gratitude for his long
services, and his hopes of receiving advico
on important occasions.
** When his resolution to resign was
known, he received more honours thais
had been paid to him in the plenitude of
power. His last levee was more numer-
ously attended than his first* The oon^
course of persons of all ranks and distine^
tions was prodigious; and their expreik
sions of arectionate regard and cono^ra
extremely moving.
<< The minister, in retiring, had tbra^
great objects in view. 1st, To disunito
the heterogeneous parties which composed
the opposition. 2a. To form an ad^iaia-
tration on the Whi^ basis. 3d. To save
himself from a public prosecution.
** If the first point was e&cted, thf
others would necessarily fiallow. To dl*
vide the opposition, aa4 weaken a combi-
nation whicn would else have been fatal to
him, At became necessary to lure the duk€
of Argyle and the Tories, to conciliate th^
prince of Wales, and to detaqh Pidteneyy
who then headed tiie Whj£S in opfubsitiony
from the Tories. To efltect these yiewa^
he had re^coorse to the grand engine of
pditical jealousy. He made such advances
to the Tories as inspired them with falla*
cious hopes and unfounded notions of tbw
own importance, and filled the Whigs in
opposition with <qpprehensions of beiiig eqp-
cnwed from the spoils. Having auooeeded
i^ this attempt, he advis^ jthe king jto foFHi
a Whig adminfatratioo^ and si;^est(ad th^
propsiety of iqpto^ying to Pulteney. One
of tne greatest dimcultiep under which be
laboured in Abe ^oune of tfiis political
tiransaction, was to conquer the km£['s re-
pugnanoe to Pulteney, which at this pa-
xiod seemed almost ins(qpe^dde» and ;to
persuade his majesty to. commence the .n^
gociation, and acquiesce in Pulteney 's ex-
pected .demand or a peerage. Havinj^ «t
length overcome the king's pertinaciOHfi
inveteracy, he said to his son Horace, ** I
4e kii|g wa^ unihrirfin^ wd be did mt! We set the kiqg«ivQO.^i" aa4 e^ WP*
407]
15 GEORGE 11.
Sir Robert Watpde resigntf
[408
ther time, in the farther progress of the
kine's compliance, he triumphantly said,
making at the same time a motion with
his hand as if he was locking a door, ^ I
have turned the key of the closet upon
him.*'
« When the negociation with Pulteney
first commenced, neither the documents
in my possession, or any oral information,
have enabled me to ascertain; but it is
probable that indirect overtures had been
made some time before the recess.
•* Hints had been thrown out to Carte-
retj from some person in the king's confi-
dence, that proposals would be made to
Pulteney, as the leader of the House of
Conunons ; but a fortnight elapsed after
this communication had been made, before
any step was taken. At length a message
came from the duke of Newcastle, request-
ing Pulteney to meet him private!}^ at his
secretaiy, Mr. Stone's house at Whitehall.
Pukeney returned for answer, that in the
. present juncture he could not comply with
this request without giving umbrage to his
friends. He was under the necessity of
dech'ning a private meeting, but added,
that he had no objection to receive his
^race publicly at his own house. A few
aajrs tflerwards he received a note from
the duke of Newcastle, importing, that he
and the lord chancellor, having a message
from the king, would wait upon him.
" The meeting took place in the fore-
noon, between the duke of Newcastle and
the chancellor on one side, and Pulteney
imd Carteret, whose presence he had de-
aired as his confidential friend, on the
other.
" Newcastle opened the conference by
paying, that the king being convinced that
sir Robert Walpole was no longer sup-
ported by a majority in the House of Com-
mons, had commanded them to offer the
Blaces which that minister possessed to
Mr. Pulteney, with the power of forming
his own administration, on the sole condi-
tion that sir Robert Walpole should not be
prosecuted. To this proposal Pulteney
replied, that if that condition was to be
made the fouudation of the treaty, he
never would comply with it ; " and even,"
he concluded, *' should my inclination in-
duce me to accede to these terms, yet it !
might not be in my power to fulfil my en-
ngement; the heads of parties being like
file heads of snakes, which are carried on
by their tails. For my nart, lie added, I
vnll be no screen ; but it the king should
be pleased to express a desire to open any
treaty, or to hold any conversation with
me, 1 will pay my duty at St. James's,
though I have not been at court for many
years ; but I will not come privately, but
publicly and at noon-day, in order to ;)re-
vent all jealousy and suspicion." Before
they parted, some negus was brought m,
and the duke of Newcastle drank, *' Here
is to our happier meeting." Puheneyre-
plied, in a quotation from Shakespeare's
Julius CfBsar,
• If we do meet again, why we shall smile,
< ff not, why then thi<i meeting was well roodf.'
" Meanwhile a prodigious ferment ap-
peared throughout the nation. The To-
ries and Jacobites were equally hritated
against the minister, and the popular da^
mours for reform were no less violent than
discordant. A contemporary author has
well described the vehement and contra-
dictory views of the heterogeneous parties
which composed the opposition. ** Among
those who thought tnemselves the most
moderate, no two men agreed upon what
was necessary. Some thinking that all se-
curity lay in a good place bill, about the
desree and extent of which they likewise
dinered. Some in a pension bill, which
others more justly thought would signily
nothing. Some in a law for triennial parlia-
ments, which all who did not delight in riot
or in the prospect of corruption, thought
both dangerous and dubious. Some for an-
nual parliaments, which others thought too
frequent. Some for justice on thenuuister.
Others not for sanguinary views. Some
for a reduction of the civillist, which others
thought unjust to be taken away, having
been legally given. Some for the sJe of
all employments. Others for idlowing a
few. Some for taking tlie deposition of
them from the crown, wnich others thonght
anti-constitutional. Some for allowing
them to subsist, but to be given only to
those who were not in parliament, that is,
among themselves. Some to allow them
to be ^iven for life. Some for making the
army independent. Others for no regular
troops at all." [Faction Detected, p. 69.]
" To oppose this torrent of reform, the
necessity of gaining Pulteney became more
and more urgent. Though it should be
admitted that personal pique and party
resentment were amon^ the motives which
influenced his opposition, yet he was
known to be a friend to the constitution,
a sound Whig, and a warm partisan to the
Protestant establishment, and the large-
ness of his property would induce him to
obstruct m measures' which might tend
m]
and is ereated Earl qfOr/ord.
A. D. 1742.
[410
\a create confusion, or perplex govern-
ment
^ The onlj method to conciliate him
va5, in appefinmce, to submit entirely to
his (lemanosy to prevail on {lim to make as
few changes as possible, to introduce few
obnoxious persons, and to trust the safety
ot'Walpole to future exigendes.
'*This scheme was managed with so
much address, that Pulteney, in forming
10 administration, the great outlined of
vliich irere traced by Walpole, conceived
that be was dictating his own terms. It
vas particularly owing to his influence that
Nevcastle retained his situation of secre-
ury of state, and that Harrington, who
▼38 compelled to make way for Carteret,
obtained the presidentship of the council;
man? of hb most confidential friends were
also coatinued in their posts.
^SooQ after the first conference with
Vevcsstle, the king sent Pulteney a pri-
me mesaage, requesting that if he did not
chne to place himself at the head of the
treasoiy, he would let lord Wilmington
tilde into it, in which Pulteney acquiesced.
Caiteret, who coveted that post, ex-
pressmg dissatisfaction at the arrangement,
Pulteney declared that he would break his
<y^ resolution, and take the place him-
»rlf, if Carteret would not consent to the
appointment of Wilmington. * You,* he
^Ided, * must be secretary of state, as the
*iltte$t person to direct foreign afiairs.'
** In the course of a few days another
conference was held at the same place, by
the same persons* Newcastle said, that
^e IV now commissioned by the king to
icake the former o&rs, without insisting
c;i the condition of not prosecuting the mi*
nL'ter; and he added, that the king only
reqoested that, if any prosecution wascom-
meaced agmat sir Robert Walpole, he
«ouki not hmame it, though he might not
C'Vtue to oppose it. Pulteney replied, that
W vasnot a man of blood; thnt in all his
expressions importing a resolution to pur-
^ the minister to destruction, he meant
^l the destruction of his power, but not
^ his person. He could not undertake to
OT what was proper to be done ; he must
to the advice of his friends ; though he
^as&eeto own, that according to his opi-
rm some 'parlmmentary censure at least
(tight to be inflicted for so many years of
Bai-administration. Newcastle then ob-
■(^ ^ the king trusts you will not dis-
^the government by making too mai^
J^ges m the midst of a session of par-
^^^neat, and that you and your friends
will be satisfied with the removal of sir
Robert Walpole and a few others.** Pulte-
ney replied, that he was far from desiring
to perplex government, or to make too
many changes at once, which would throw
all things into confusion, he did not insist
on a total change ; and he had no objec-
tion to the duke of Newcastle or the lord
chancellor, but what he insisted upon, he
added, was an alteration of measures as
well as men : he only required that some
obnoxious persons should be dismissed;
that the mam forts of government should
be delivered into the hands of his party ;
a majority in the cabinet council, the no-
mination of a secretary of state for Scot-
land, and of the boards of treasury and
admiralty. After some resistance, these
points being finally agreed to, Newcastle
supposed that in arranging the new admi-
nistration, he would place himself at th^
head of the treasury, and declared that it
was the earnest and repeated desire of the
king. '< As the disposition of places is in
my hands,** replied Pulteney, ** I will ac-
cept none myself; I have so repeatedly
declared my resolution on that head, and
I will not now contradict myself:** he
then named the earl of Wilmington first
lord of thetreasuiy ; Sandys chancellor of
the exchemier; Carteret secretary of
state; sir John Rushout, Gibbon, and
Waller, lords of the treasury ; a new board
of admiralty, including sir John Hynde
Cotton ; and the marquis of Tweedale se-
cretary of state for Scotland. For him*
self he demanded only a peerage, and a
seat in the cabinet. Before they parted,
Pulteney declared that he was under such
engagements with the duke of Argyle,
that he must acauaint him with all which
had passed ; ana added, that he should
not oblige him to secrecy, but leave him
at liberty to inform lord Chesterfield or
lord Cobham, or any of his friends. New-
castle did not consent to this without un*
willingness^ and the meeting ended*.
** These negociations create great jea-
lousies, and excited the resentment of
those who were not admitted to the con-
* " The account of this iiegociation with
Pulteney, and the subsequent transactions, are
principally derived from the CoiTespondeoce,
Perioa 7. — Fit>m Communications by the
bishop of SalftlwiTy.— Life of bishop Newton,
who has related the whole transaction from the
authority of Pulteney, thongh not without
some slight errors, which I have been enabled
to rectify from notes and information, kimlly
sopplicu by the bishop of Salisbury •" Coxe.
«ilj
15<rS0RfiE II.
ferenpes. Tvo Dattied» at a veiy early
period of this Dukiness, were forminf
m^ainst the arrangements made by Pulte*-
ney, coxisistiDg of the great body of the
^oriesy headed by Arg^le, which party
vas jomed by the Jacomtes, and the other
composed of those Whigs who were not
likely to be comprised in the new arrange-
ments. Chesterfield was dis^naoiotied
that he was not made secretary of state ;
Waller was irritated at not being chancel-
lor of the exchequer^ and thought the si<-
tuation of a lord of the treasury beneath
his acceptance* Cobham, though restored
to a regiment^ and appointed a member of
the cabinet, aspired to a far greater shase
of power; and the Gnenvilles^ Lyttleton^
Pitt, and Dodington, were highly dissa-
tisfied that they had no share m the new
administration.
<< In the midst of this growing dissatis-
feotion, a great point was gained by con-
ciliating the prince of mdes. llie ar-
nngement with Pulteney was made with-
out the knowledge of the Prinee^ to whom
it was not communicated befiore the 2nd
of February ; but he reoeived the in&rma^
lion witli due renpeot, and.ai){>eared satis-
fied witli the resuU. On the 6th he grant-
ed a private audience to sir Robert Wat-
pole, and promised his protection against
any attacks upon his life or fortune.
** While the posts remained unfilled,
and the members of opposition conceived
hopes that an arrangement might take place
in their favour, the great bcdy condnued
apparently united; but when su^icions
began to be formed of a separate negocia-
tion, and the places of secretai^ of state^
and chaaoelior of the exchequer, wene
disposed of, without the general concur-
nence, ra«rmuis and discontents aucceed-
ed, and a schism, which loxd Perceval*
calls, ** the ideath of the late ^position/'
took place ^m ^e llJth of Pebruary, whe^
the .meeting was held «t the Pountain
Tavern^. '
* " Afterwards ^rl jof Egmoot, author .of
*< Faction Detected," joue ot fh£ best poliiioal
pamphlets ever written." Coxe.
f From the Seeker Manuicript,
** Feb. 12. Meeting at the Fountain Tavern
iKf above 200 Commoaers and 35 Lords. Buke
of Argy\e s|ioke warmly for .prosacuting lord
Orford, with bints of reflection on those who
jbad accepted. Duke of Bedford the same. ;
liord .Gower aud air W. W. Wynne more
moderate. Mr. Pulteney replied warmly.
Lord Talbot diaok to cleansii^ the Aqgean j
t
Meeting ffthe Opposition [41
'< It consisted of m^ less thm tfan
hundred members of both houses of jm
Jiament. The duke of Argyle, as we a
informed by a person wim was pern
and took an active share on the side
Pulteney, expatiated, with great sol^
mty of tpeech and ^ture, on the ji
gerous situation to which the cottntiyl
been reduced by the late adi^uniitnn
of sir Robert Wdlpole^ and 00 diedij
ous and steady opposition which Woe
made to his measures ; he said «W
at length, honest endeavours aad|
just spirit of the people have brought^
in sight of the long wished for havei^ |
Bs au parties have contributed to form
this important point, it is just tfait^
denominations of men sboyld receive;^
equal reward of their virtue* If a prg
use is made of this fortunate comu&ct^
this reward may be obtained. wTh
a right to expect the total rout of all |k
who formed any part of the nuai^
junto ; and such a measure woidd u
room for dl." ^
** After sarcastically observing, m^
sion to Pulteney, that a grain of hooa
wfis worth M, cart load of gold, he p|
ceeded : ^< But have we not much n^
to iear that this use will not be made^
the happy opportunity ; that a few aa
without any communication of theirii
feedings to this assembly, have arrari
toihemsebes the exclusive right cl^
mination, and from their manner we kn
sufficient^ cause to ^pcehend that 4{
do not intend the general advaotM
Thev have now been ei^ht jistys ungm
in this business, and iTwe ane to |u^
from the few offices they have mm
bestowed, they may justly be accusttij
not acting with that vigour which J
whole people have a right to expect. 1^
choice of those alreac^ preferred cami
but supply great matter of jealousy; ^
as this choioe has principally falleo ly
Stable ef the dang and grooms. Mr. %n^
and Mr. Gybbop there. Lord Cartmeta
W iochalsea not. Lord Jphancellor is the er^
ing in private discoarse to me, stioi^ agaii
taKii^ 10 any Tories : owniog oo more ib
tliat some 01 them perhaps were not for (
Pretender, or 9t least did not know they ^
for him : (bough when I gave him tbeaccoi
ifirst'of my discourse wi£. the PviiHKjhesi
•the main body of them weteoftbesuB^fai
^iploB^witb the Whig*."
'< Feb. 18. Went with bishop ofGlaoem
visit lord^Cartenet, who advised lOi, in a jw^
way,iiot.to qppw without jp^cwiigr.**
n
«^ tht FwaitUim Taetm.
A. D. Yl^.
[411
^WI^gi^itvaB iH oiiKiitetlie Tories:
Hmj are not to be ptovided for, the
mr effiscts of the ooiditioii will bo de-
lved; aad tbo odknis dudnotkn of
ilj iriD be agflbt rcvhred, to the great
'nfice ioi the nation. It ie therefore
Jj neoesflBiy to continue closely unit-
iiid to perBevere with the same Te-
e as ever, till the Tories obtain
sod the adnmiiitTation is foond-
oo die bfoad bottom of botb
'To tiiese accusations Pnhenej renlied
|h loleH bitteniess; He hunentea the
keie tnatment which he andhisco-ad-
bn had received in return for their
bicd) and for their share in driring the
landster from the hefan^ to be thus
y forth and oublidy charged in the
p of the worla, with things of which
in dorstTentore to accuse them in
te; to be loaded with unjust suspi-
iflid imaflinary crimes, which though
Mt feondation would be easily to-
Md in the present temper of the nation,
ffe desenre/' he added, ** a very dif-
IM usage for the integrity with which
Hune hitherto proceed^ and by which
^ determined to proceed. In answer
Ae imputation, that we have taken the
iigement of the negociation into our
Ink let OS reply, that overtures having
la made to us, it was our duty, (as it
aU have been the duty of every man,
Momsoch overtures had been made)
baploy all our abilities and endeavours
m a happy settlement, after the di-
hm with which this country has been
fioDg unhappfly rent, and which could
I lomr siUMSt without ruining the in-
tot or the nation abroad, and incurring
I danger of fatal disturbances at home.
b superficial vulgar may indeed con-
lie that it would have been more equita-
i to refer the settlement to the decision
die whole party, but surely no man of
lenble understanding and experience
a cherish an idea so impracticable and
and. Government is not yet reduced
mneDder at discretion, especially to
I enemy who has declared publicly that
ey woold give no quarter; government
tter can, will, nor ought to be taken
fitorm; and it behoves gentlemen to
toider the ineritable consequences of
idi an attempt. The great points in
l^on were, to change the minister,
id dnage die measures; the one is
hadj erocted, and we will engage to
nfian the other/*
<< << As to the distribution of emploj*
meats, th^re is neither justice, decency^
duty or moderation, in^dictatingto the king,
how to dispose of every preferment in the
state. His majesty has shewed a diepcv
sition to comply with the desires of his
people in the most effi^cCnal manner; he
nas already supplied the principal minis-
terial posts with men, who have hitherto
enjoyed the confidence of the people, and
cannot yet have forfeited their good Opi-
nion, beGanse^ though nominated, they
have none of them yet done any single
act of office. As to the changes already
made, they ace as numerous as the ini-
portanoe of the natter, and the nature
of the thinip can possibly admit so sooir,
and it would have been more to the credit
of the party, if their patience had extend-
ed a little lon^ than the few days, that
have piissed since the time of their ad-
journment. As to the partiid dxstrRrotioA
of einployments to the Whigs, as fer as
our interest sbafl hereafler extend, we
will use it feithfully to the kmg and our
country, by recommending such persons,
whose principles have been misrepresent^
ed, and who are true to his femily, let
their appeUations be what thejr will. But
it must be a work of some time, to re^
move su^cions inculcated long, and
long credited, with regard to a denomina-
tion of men, who have formeriy been
thought not heartily attached to the in»
terest of the prince upon the throne; some
instances cS this intention have been ad-
read v given in the late removals, and dievi
will be many more : but it must depoid
upon the prudent conduct of the Tories
themselves, wholly to abolish these un-
happy distinctions of party.'' He con-
cluded by reouesting ' them to consider
the fiilse step tney had already made, and
that this passionate and groundless divi^
sion would infallibly give new courage
to the party they had just subdued; that
it discovered a weakness, of which advair-
tage would be certainly taken; that k
must inevitablv lessen the power of those
who were employed, and, if persisted in,
would in a sreat measure prevent the sue**
cess of tiieir riews, both for the public
and their friends.
" When the contest was in reality for
power, and onlv in appearance for the
public good, it is not to be supposed that
arguments on either side, drawn from pru*
deutial, disinterested, and patriotic mo«
tives, could have the smallest weight. The
parties separated with the same virulence
il5] IS GEORGE II. Repre$eniatioM to mrtma Members
am they bad met^ and only waited for an
open ruptaroy until all the places were
disposed of; each flattering himself that
he might be included in the proposed ar-
•rangemenLf
<< The resentment of the disafected
patriots was still farther a^ravated, by
the fonnatioii of the new Treasury Board*,
announced on the 16th of February, in
which only one Tory was included.
^* With a view to allay these jealousies,
the prince of Wales proposed a meeting in
his presence, of the chief leaders of the
former opposition, particularly Argyle,
Chesterfield, Cobharo, Gower, and Ba-
thurst. Pulteney came, accompanied by
Scarborough, prepared to oppose or to
conciliate. The most violent accusations
wexk levelled against him ; it was urged,
the change of administration ought to be
4otal ; the intended alterations were not
sufficient ; too many of the late minister's
friends would remain in power ; sir Rd)ert
Walpole would still act behind the curtain,
and direct the whole machine of govern-
ment. Pulteney replied, that these* ac-
cusations were groundless ; for even upon a
supposition that the ex-mmister shoula still
continue to be a greater personal favourite
with the king than any of them, or than
all of. them together, yet it would not be
4n his power to distress them, provided
jthey remained united among themselves.
<< Nothing,'' he added, <' but our own dis-
sensions can hurt us ; we have the staft' in
our own hands, and the changes now to
be made, will enable us to eftect farther
idterations at the end of the session. I
•have stipulated that the duke of Ai^le,
•lofd Cobham, lord Gower, the marquis of
Tweedale, the earl of Winchelsea, lord
Carteret, and myself, shall be members of
the cabinet council, and we shall form so
•great a majority, that the whole power
will he in our hands. We shall besides
command the whole boards of treasury
-and admiralty, and have the appointment
-of several other considerable places. What
. f To this meeting at the Fountain Tavern,
air Charles Hanbur^ Williams alladas, with
•bis* usual wit and satire, in his ode against the
earl of Bath, called The Statesman :
• ** Then enlarge on his cunning and wit :
<< Say, how he harangu'd at the Fountain ;
*< Sav, how the old patriots were bit,
*' And a mouse was produced by a moun-
tain.'/
* Lord Wilmington, 8andys, sir John Rush-
out, fhilip Gibbon, and George Compton.
then have we to fear i Should we mm
a total change at this period, disordera
eon&sion must ensue. % the p]ed«
we possess at present, we have aamle i
curi^ for future regulations, ana in
such a power in our hands, we may cm
mand any future alterations,"
" The prince declared himsdf ntifii
with these reasons ; and it was unaoioMi
ly agreed, they should all go to court tif
ther. Thus the authority of the pniK
and the expectations of the Tories, II
sir John Hynde Cotton would, acoordi
to promise, be appointed one oi Uie In
of the admiralty, prevented an op
rupture.
^ On the 17th the prince, whose eg
blishment had been increased to 100,00
a year, and who was farther gratified wi
a promise of seats at the admiralty boi
for lord Baltimore and lord Archibi
Hamilton, paid his personal respects
the king, and on the 18th, the whole pv
who had formed the opposition to i
late minister made their appearance,
court*'*
Representations avd Instai
tions sent from their cokstit
ENTS TO VARIOUS MbMBEBS UPOV II
Change op Ministry.] Upontbei
moval of sir Robert Walpole, and thei
terations in the ministr}'', there werepd
rejoicings in London and Westminak
Representations and Instructioos liked
were sent to the members of the Hooie
Commons by their respective coDstituesl
&omthe counties of Suffolk, Oxford, Abe
deen, Renfrew, Air, Dumiries, Lantt
Hereford, Flint, Devon, Denbigh, Montg
mery, Gloucester, Cromartie, fidinbuif
Anglesey, Kincardine, andChester, tbei
ties of London, Westminster, York, Bri«
Canterbury, Bath, Edinburgh, Lichfid
Coventry, Chester, Hereford, andPete
* From the Seeker Manuscript.
«« February 17. Prince of Wales went to^
James's, 'the agreement mvt^e at 11 tl
night before, and principally by Mr. Palme
as lord Wilmington told one. Tbe &ia^i
ceived him in the drawing room: tbePfiiii
kissed his hand : he asked him how tbe pa
cess did : shewed no other mark of regit
All the courtiers weut the same j[lay to drk
House. The bishop of Glocester and I w«
thither. The prince and princess very dfil
us both."
" February 21. Prince taken ill of the m«
sles. Tbe king sent nd message to bus in b
iUness."
4l7j
9fm tAeXAMge ^MiniHfy*
Uraudi; AeborooghiofBiflbop's-Caitle*
Abeimo, IVettoB, Moninoath, Tewkes*
buiy, Neircaatle under Liiie» HonitOD)
Dumfrieii Aniuui, Stirling* Cawmarthen,
Minebead, Reading, Flint and Maribo»*
nugh, &C. &C. TStj all of them strongly
recomfnaiided a strict Inouiry into past
oesiuresiand aproper punislinient to be in-
flicted on tbe guilty ; the restoring Trien-
oial PtoriiaflDents, and the passing other
good Billsy particularly the Pension and
Place Bills: and some of them, besides,
resuHnCiate against Party Distinctions,
Standing Annies, and the abuses of Re-
turning Officers, desirinethat theife gricT-
SDces may be redressed. The following
nay serve as a specimen of the whde :
To Sir V/atkin Wili-Ums Wynn,
bart. Knight of the Shire for the
county of Denbigl).
Sir; we should think we were wanting
to oofsehres, we should think we were
wtntiogto oor country, if we did not take
tbii opportunity of returning you our
gntefttl acknowledgements for your con-
itttt attendance to your duty m parlia-
BeQC» as well aa for the share you have
taken in the |^orious stru^le that hath
been narie since the beginning of this
acsBfHu-We join with the voice of the
nation m rcjoiciiig &ff the success that hath
attended your endeavours ; but we have
a more than common reason to rejoice,
because of the most arbitrary methods that
bsrebeea put in practice, to deprive us of
tbe very bkthrif^t of Britons, that of
dnaing our own representativea. It is to
tbe success of your endeavours, that we
ose our beiM repsesented in parliament
•t sU, as the uvand Corrupter duatinguish-
cdyoB by exerting all the force ofcormp-
tieaagaaatyott; it is because he knew
joor attachaoent to the true interest of
Twrcoontry* He despaired of being able
to prevail upon you to betray us, by whom
you was trusteu, therefore was you ho-
aoared with his more particular malice.
We take it. Sir, that you sulfered for our
Mbei, which must recommend you to us
nmt than ever«p->«Although we have no
nsMmto doubt your endeavours topro-
■ote all hws, that may tend to the secu^
nty of oor liberties, yet you will give us
^ve to recommend some things to you,
<bat can- fot immediate redress.' We
iMipe, Sir, you will do your utmost to
procure an act for limiting the number
^ Placemen to sit in the House of
^^<}<BiaQi!s ; the whole woild ia sensible,
[VOU XIL]
A. D. 174t. [«18
that the want of such an act in our late
parliaments, brought us to the brink of
ruin.^-We likewise request of you, that
you will endeavour, that a law may be ob«
tained to prevent the villainous practices
of returning officers, and that some punish*
mentmaybe provided eoual to thehei-
nousness of the crime. We have reason
to know. Sir, that the iVeedom of parlia*
ments may be lost without such a kw««^
We must desire you likewise to Oppose
Standing Armies m tim^ of peace, a use*
less buraen, altogether unknown to out
ancestors, that of late are become so nu-
merous, that like the locusts of Egy[yt^
they cover the lace of the land, living in
sloth and idleness, and devouring the la-
bours of the industrious, that have cost
the nation millions, and in twenty years
have not done one da3r's service ror their
country. — ^We also intreat you to do what
you can towards healine that wound made
m the constitution by the Septennial act ;
that we may be restored again at least to
Triennial parliaments, th^ we and our
representatives may not have time to be-
come strangers to each other.— Above all.
Sir, we must press you to push for a fair
and impartial inqmry into the shameful
conduct with respect to affiurs abroad, aa
weU as the corrupt management at home^
things whkh cannot be thought of ¥riihottt
indignation. You have been instrumental
in bringing one of the to<^ of corruption to
shame ; we hope you will be instrumental
in punishim him, who set such tooli to
work. It b fit that you and we should
understand one another. We have a
right to speak riainly to you, and we must
tdl you. Sir, that if the oMm that ruined
our trade, disgraced ouf arass, plundered
our treasure, ncnociatadaway our interests^
impoverished the land,— -in a word tho
autho^of all the calamities and disgraoea
of £0 yWs, ahoidd (while the whole na^
tion i^calling out for justice againat him)
triumph in impunity, we shall he apt to
thbk our ceostittttion is lost. We are, teb
To Sir William CoiTRTEKAt, bart and
Theophilus Fortescue, eso.; Re-
presentatives in Parliament for the
County of Devon.
Wethel
high sherUr and grand jury rdnm
you tttanks tor your faithiul senrices, and
for your having so heartily contributed to
the now pleasing prospect of affianu^^Per*
severe in your integrity, and let the Con*
stittttionin church ana state be invidably
presenred^'^Resloro Trionnialparliaiatnflii
C«E3
419] 15 GEORGE IL Repremdaliani io ^rum Membert
[420
thebef tflecurity of British liberty ; use your
utmost endeavours to limit the number of
placemen in, and exclude pensioners from
the House of Commons. — Be it your par*
tidularcare to procure a proper law for
the security and encouragement of the
woollen manufacture ; the decay of which
is so sensibly felt in this county « — ^Let nu-
merous Standing Armies in time of peace be
abolished ; in time of war be made useful,
i— -Strictly inquire into the conduct of those
who have insulted the merchants, sacri-
ficed the trade, and prostituted the honour
of Great Britain, tiiat their punishment,
upon due conviction, may be as exem-
pkry as their crimes are notorious.
The Representation of the Lord
Mayor, Aldermen and Commons of
the City of London, in Common-
Council assembled, to the Right Hon.
Sir Robert Godschall, knt. Lord
Mayor ; Sir John Barnard, knt. ; Mr.
Alu. Lambert and Mr. Aid. Heath*
cote, their Representatives in Parlia-
ment.
This court doth take this public occa-
sion to acknowledge their erateful sense
of your vigilant and faithful conduct in
par&ament, which hath already contributed
to the production of many good effects. —
As they have now reason to hope for a
change of measures as well as of men,
they desire you will strenuously promote
all those salutary laws, as are or shall be
proposed in the House of Commons, such
as tne Hace Bill, a Pension Bill, and the
repeal of the Septennial Act, in order to
restore the ancient freedom of our consti-
tution, and secure it against all future at-
tempts, either of open or secret corrup-
tion, or of any undue influence whatso-
ever.— ^And more particularly^ they recom-
mend, that you will persist, with unwearied
diligence, to make the earliest and strict-
est mquiry into the causes of all past mis-
managements, and exert your utmost en-
deavours to prevent the like for the future.
—And they further expect, that you will
extend sucn inquiry to all persons, who, in
their respective employments, have con-
tributed to the complicated evils, which
have so long oppressed and dishonoured
this nation. — Ana they congratulate them-
selves and the whole kingdom, that from
the virtue and spirit of the present parlia-
ment every odious name of distinction will
soon be lost among us, and that from this
happ3^ period they may date the entire
idiolition of parties, of whidi the most per-
nicious use has hitherto been made, to die
imminent danger of our liberties^— For
now they may reasonably expect, that
those who wish the rekl aiid solid support
of his majesty and his royal family, and ars
qnalified'by their virtues and abilities, nu^
nave it in their power to aerve both tlieir
king and country ; and that no distinction
will remain, but of those who are friends or
enemies to the constitution, of those who
would maintain the freedom and indepen-
dency of parliament, and of those who
would subject it to corrupt and ministerial
influence.
The Represent ATI017 of the City and
Liberty of Westminster, to the
Right Hon. the Lord Vise Perceval,
and Charles Edwin, esq.
We the burgesses and inhabitants of the
city and liberty of Westminster cannot
avoid taking the first opportunity (tf pay-
ing our most grateful acknowledgments ^
your fUthfal behaviour during this short,
but important period of parliament ; and
thouRh we have no reason to doubt ^
ly perseverance, yet we cannot \
it altogether improper to acquaint yoa
with our sentiments on the present crisis
of aflaira ;.— a crisis which we apprehend
most determine the &te of us and our pos*
terity, and render this kingdom, either a
glory or scoflP among the nations«---We
have beheld, with the deepest ooncero,
such measures f>ur8ued for many yean
past, as have manifestly tended to disgraca
the name, betrav the interest*, toIb the
trade, weakqn Ute liberties, and depress
the courage of the British nation. Itii
now with the most sensible pleasure we
behold the agreeable proopect of being
delivered from Uie fatal erocta of such
measures, by the virtue of a truly British
parliament, and the removal of those per-
sons who, supported by the influence of
corruption (that canker of our constita-
tion) have too long wantoned in the abuse
of power, and mocked the calamities of an
almost despairing people^ — ^Bot^ as the
melancholy experience of past times
evinces, that the removal of the person of
a minister from the helm, is insufficient
for securing the interests and liberties of
a peoi>le, while his creatures, his maxims^
and his views, are entailed upon the go-
vernment; we therefore hope you will
most strenuoudy oppose them, and en-
deavour to procure us such a constitu-
tional security, as may prevent this king-
dom from mdfering by the like eirors or
m]
vp$n the Chaste ofMimdry^
A, D. 1742.
[422
iniquities for tlie future*— Afl the strictest
eQ<)uiry only caa satisQ^ so nothing but
die most rigorous justice ought to avenge
an injured pe<^Ie ; it is therefore we ear-
nestly intreat jou to make a diligent scru-
tiny into the authors of those grievances
ve have so long groaned under, and not
suifer impunity to be the lot of the op-
pressor :--Ju8tice is a duty you owe to
posterity, as examples are most likely to
prevent future evils: — Should the dis-
turber of the public be oermitted the enjoy-
moit of private traoquillity , or his influence
lemain m those councils from which his
penoD is removed, we conceive that such
so event at this juncture must give a &tal
encouragement, or rather sanction, to a
wanton and vricked exercise of power in
all succeeding ministers : — ^Lenit^ to such
aone would be cruelty to the nation ; and
the calline to a severe account the instru-
ments of pernicious measures, however
uDavailiog to procure us reparation for
what is past, may have the happy effect of
henceforth preventing the like violations
of tlte constitution, uie like profusion of
pohlic treasure at home, and the like
prostitution of the public faith and honour
ibnMU-We zealously recommend to your
epdeavoun the extirpating those party
dtsdnctkMis, which, though their founda-
|ioQ have long ceased to exist, were yet so
industriously fomented among us, in order
to serve the mischievous purposes of a mi-
nisterial tyranny, and in opposition to the
raiand permanent interests of the present
n^al family. The common interest, it is
h(^ed, has now united all parties and per-
WBona, and every man will be regarded
<^y tt he prefers the welfare and liber-
tbofhis country to any private depen-
dance or venal consideration whatever.
A Lettek fVom the right hon. George
Haliburton^ esq. Lord Provost of
the city of Edinburoh, to Archibald
Steuart, esq. our Representative in
hrlianient*
Sir; The virtue, spirit and vigilance of
^ present parliament has alr^y been
productive or so many ^ood effects, as
give an earnest to the nation of what may
^ ^pected from a constant perseverance
m the same paths^— The restoring and
inuitaininj^ tae ancient constitution, and
^preservmg the freedom of parliament
^ heen lona the objects of the desires
*« wishes of Uie nation, as the only pre-
tttratives against all undue influence, the
F^ ceaent of the aSbctioDa of the ^ub^
jecfs to his majesty and his royal family,
and the certain antidote against the ef-
fects of corruption and ministerial influ- .
ence. — As we now have a very near pro-
spect of attaining these glorious ends, we
earnestly recommend to you to promote
and concur in bringing in and carrying
through, such salutary laws as shall be
conducive thereto ; of such number we
reckon a Place-Bill, Pension-Bill and the
repeal of the Septennial Act, the most ne-
cessary—As our constitution has been
broke in upon, by which the nation has
manifestly suffered, we desire you, with
the greatest zeal and assiduity, to concur
in making the strictest inquiry into the :
cause of past mis-managements, as the best .
means to prevent the like for the future* .
And, as this nation has been long op-
pressed and dishonoured by a complica-
tion of evils, we heartily recommend to
you the strictest inquiiy into the cpnduct
of the several persons who, in their re- '
spective employments, have contributed
toereto, and, by bringing them to justice,
thus rub off the stain that has, for some .
time, blackened and obscured our coun-
try.— As your past conduct in parliament
has given us the greatest satistaction, we .
take this public opportunity to acknow-
ledge it, and to return you our thanks, and
are confident, that as tne honour that will
attend the prosecution of the above mea-
sures, so manifestly for the good, of the
nation, will be exceeding great, you will
steadily follow them out, with all the as-
siduity and vigilance in your power. I .
am, &c« — Signed in presence and by ap«
poiutment of the council,
George Haliburtok, P.
At aGeneral Meeting of the Mayor, Al-
dermen, Common Council, &c.of the '
city of Canterbury, it was unani-
mously agreed that the following Re-
presentation should be forthwith de-
livered to the hon. Mr. Watson, and
Thomas Best, esq. dieir Repreaai*
tatives inPariiament^
Gentlemen ; We should be much want-
ing in gratitude, and truly undeserving of
future favours, should we be remiss in our
acknowledgment of those already con-
ferred; and therefore beg leave to offer
our most hearty thanks for your late
honest endeavours in parliament to re-
trieve the glory of an' injured people, and
save us from sinking under the insupport-
able anguish of a ministerial oppression,
therd)y JO Aobly discharging the duty we
*W]
15 GEORGE n.
SMfift9ni0itoint to 'Mtwiu mMMcts
im
have repoMd in you; nor must we omit
oor coogralulations on the succesB of your
attempts for tlie public good, nor Bealoosl^
to implore jrour further aMistance to limit
the number of placemen, repeal the Sep«
tetmial Act, ana bring all those to punm-
ment who have any ways abused the pub-
Uc trust ; that a prostitution of power may
be no longer t^Merated^ but that all whol-
some laws for the good of the subject may
be duly andsoeedUy enacted ; and finally,
that a work, by so many worthy patriots
thus laudably begun, may terminate m the
restoration of our undoubted rights, and
the total extirpation of oar oppressors, to
the honour of our king, tiie preserration
of our country, and t^ tenror of ^iture
delln^entt.
To the Hon. General Wade and FhOip
Bennett, esq. Members for Bath*
' Sirs; The higher sense we have of the
blessings we should enjoy, was our con-
stitution preserved, thio higher must our
fears be, when we are in dimger of having
that destroyed, the higher our resentment
agamst those who contribute to destroy
it,— Corruption is its principal adversary ;
and we recdve continued accounts, that
all her arts have been employed, all her
chaims of riches, honours ana pleasures,
have exerted their united force, to disen*
gage the representatives of the people fhnn
an attention to the cause of liberty, which
the^ were commissi<med to maintain and
defend : can we then sit silent and un-
alarmed ? No ; we must remind you of
the importance of the charge we have
committed to you, and recommend to you
an honest but oealous inquiry into the cod-
djiot of those, to whom those charges of
corrupt piactices are imputed; that though
np prejudice of party, no affectation cfpo-
p.ularity should ex])08e them to the incuff-
niation of numbers, if innocent ; yet shouM
no artifice, no prevarication in them, no
^e tenderness in you, skreen them ^om
punishment, if gudty; that succeeding
statesmen, when they consider an op-
pressed people have demanded and re-
cehred justice, may be intimidated from
pursuing measures destructive of the pdb-
lie interest, and support our constitution
lA its ori^fd purity.^— We rectrflect, with
approbation, the restraints lud on electors
in the act againstbribery in elections, and
think it reasonable we should have some
securi^ for the virtue and integrity of the
dected, by provbions for dis&ling pen-
aioners firom sittix^ in youriiouse, am by
limiting the number of placemen that
should sit there^— ^ower may be cempted
by too lone fm enjoyment of it ; the teinp>
tation to aSuse it would be oonsiderBmy
lessened, was the Septennial Act repealed
and thecall of pariiaments Triennial. — Tbe
decay of trade in general, and the woollen
manufacture, whidi we are eye-vritnesiei
of, in particular, are reasonable subjects of
complaint ; we expect firom you, mquiry
into the causes ct this dec^, and »i ac-
tivity in redressing them. — ^Thcee are our
sentiments, ye are our representatives,
and we are your electors.
Instructions to the Earl of Eoston,
and William Grove, esq. Members for
Coventry.
As it is the first time ikis weighty trose
of being a representative in perhament,
has been reposed in you, Mr. C^ove, we
take this opportunity to congratulate yoa,
and express the great joy and satisfitction
we receive from our happy choice of s
person so deserving of us and the public,
whose true patriot aeal and behaviour for
the hcmour and service of your country,
at first settmg out, and faithful dtsdi&rge
of that trust during this short but criticBl
period, give us an early and strong con-
fidence of your future ^ood eondoct—
And though we entertam not the least
doubt or suspicion of jrour peraeveraoce 9A
this important juncture, when Great Brr-
tain, formerly the envy of her neighbours
and aibitress 0£ Europe, is, through the
iniquitoua measures of a junto of persooi
influenced and supported by conrupCioD,
stript of her ancient power, weakb, aod
glory, and betrayed, oppressed, and so-
slaved, we may say, beyond inqpes of re-
demption, should not a viituous Bntisk
parUament seasonably exert henalf far ker
deliverance: — And though you, mykrd
Buston, by having been longer arspre-
sentative in pariiamisnty qannot but better
know the source of these grievances, and
will (we hope) by your future dispotttun
and actions, shew a just abhorrence of
them; yet we your constttnents, as it is
our undoubted r%ht, must freely dedare
our sentiments, imd insist, that yoa both
(lajrittg aside afi party distinctions, odious
to evesy weH^waher of his country) we
ywtr utmost endeavours to weed oat die
corrupted and their corroptors, and care-
fully guard and provide against their p^^*
nidous schemea, and redress die injiff^*
by a strict inquiry into Ae onhiqppjf state
orllie nation, and vigorously poiwnpg ^
e]
igm the Chemge qfMhmiry.
A. D. 174^
CttS
licked tupUlfcrs of it« present cahumties
OJ thej aie broaght to coDdlni punish-
oent; Uiat others may hereafter be de-
med from the like evil practices^ which
me 80 mudi contributea to the decaj of
nde in general, and the ruin of our wool-
bQ manufiKtiire in particolar, too sen-
iMy fisit in tfak city, and throug^ont the
vhde kiDgdom.-— And as Septennial par-
Kifflenlsare an innoTation upon and in*
fBtious to our constitution, especially
viieo crowded with {^acemen'' and pen-
nooersymittisteri^ly made use of to carry
OD evU dengns, and for corrupt purposes,
re eamedy request your strenooos
lasisUDce and brarty concurrence, in
pddog such whoIeBOme laws, as may
iDeritsUy prevent those abuses for the
biaie.^We are, gentlemeo, whilst you
Kt ngoroiisly m the public good,
lOttS, ftc*
bsTRUCTioKs from the High Sheriff,
Gentlemen, CIergy,and Freeholders of
the County of Suffolk, to their Re-
presentatives in Parliament, - Sir Jer-
mjn Dairersand Sir Cordell Firebrace,
buts.
Your uoshaken aeal and attachment
to the true iaiemt of your country, in
the present nice mid critical juncture,
all for, and. jaady merit the strongest
cxprestioDs ef oar gmtitnde ; and thm^
fere we cannot omit Mb opportunity o€
declaring our faiglieBC sattsfactioa in the
proof you hate gtven vs of the faitfafol
ditcho^ of that great and iaqionaat
tnist, which by the general voice of this
coimij was coBBinitted to you< — As we
^1 in our breasts the warmest emotions
«n<7i when we reflect unon that pleaslnpp
prnpMtoffbture ease and happiness to this
fotioo, which now lies open to ns, afterhav-
icg groaned for so nakny peaceful years,
Buler the heavy and oppressive burden
of taxes, together with the sinking and
nuDouaatate of ourmost useful andbene-
vial trade; so we canmot but eamcstly
'^Mnead to you, not: doubting your
%eQt actendsnce on your duties m par-
^^t, as ihr as health wiH permit, the
«^ completion of that good work which
«so happily btt^n, by using your utmost
^voura to obtain redress and restitu-
^to an iaJMred people, from those who
\* *e sppiehend) have fior so asany years
^"'italy ai^ported thdr own power, by
cndtessfing imd mfamously prostitnting
I tbenatioinl treasure to the ends of cor-
. ^pioD) and the infioencmg of fiirmer
parliaments ; to which jrarjpose we recom*
mend it to you, to join in a strict and
severe bquiry into the causes of our
having received so little satisfaction fyt
the many insults and injuries which the
nation has so long, and so disgracefully
sustained, and to bring the authors of per-
nicious councils to sudi a condign punish*
inent, as is fitting for the assertors of the
honour of their country to inffict, and for
the destroyers of it to receive. And since
we have now the best-grounded assurance
of that dearest blessing which can himpen
to a iree people, an uninfluenced, mde*
pendent House of Commons, above the
reach of bribery and conrytion, we must
further recommend it to you to oppose
strenuously the keeping up of Standing
Armies in times of profoimd peace, to con-
cur in some proper bills for the luniting
the number of Placemen in parliament,
£oT repealira the Sej^nial act» and for
the eBectmu prohibkion of the runntf^
of wool ; the exportation of which to fo-
reign countries we apprehend to be the
cause of the fktal decay of that manu-
&cture in this kingdom, and of the {h-o-
disious increase m the poor; with sU
other such salutary laws, as shall at any
time be laid before you.
To the rieht hen. the Lord Viscount
Quarendoo, and Sir James Dashwood^
bart. Members of Paiiiament lor the
County of Oxfobd.
We the high sheriff^ and grand jury of
this county esteem it a peculiar happi-
ness to have this c^portunity of congra*
tulating you on the success diat haa mus
far attended your uninfluenced and ap-
proved service in parliament. And tirough
the necessary and long wished for method
of a parliamentary inquiry into the con-
duct of past measures nas been hitherto
defeated, we depend on your firm perse^
. verence in requiring that justice so neces^
sary at present, to satisfy the yet ttncer^
rupted constituents of this nation^ tloit
their honest eflbrts have not been in fwm,
and to convince those who have been de»
luded by artfid misrepresentations, that
our complaints have not been groundless.
— ^We further require your concurrence
with those, who we now hope will vindi*
cate the disinterested sincerity of their
endeavours, that have so often piovedl
ioefiectval to obtam a jphoe biB. How
necessary it is to provide this ^uard ftnr
our constitution, tne repeated mstances
of ito preservation, by the independency
iSTJ 15 GEOKGE XL Debate in the Cthnmons bn graiUing a Supply
of former parliamenlJ, aufficiently evince.
.^We likewise cannot but expect, from
fin independent majority of this parliament,
a repeal of the Septennial act, an innova-
tion as dangerous as this constitution ever
cuSered, making a trust of such import^
ance irrevocable for more than hair the
computed term of life, and thereby de-
priving the electors of approving a worthy
representative by a repeated choice, or
rqei^ing those who, from motives destruc-
tive of freedom, deviate from the princi-
ples that alone recommend them to their
constituents.
Febmanr 18. Both Houses met pur-
suant to amoamment.*
,i
* « " On the 18th, the two Houses met,
4md the writs ibr the members splinted
to the new board of treasury were issued.
The Ivories and disaffected Whigs did not,
however, yetventure tobegm a new opposition.
Argyle aeoepted the office of master-geoeral
of tne ordnance, and a r^ment of horse of
which he bad been dispossessed. No oppo-
sitioD was made to the motion on the 2 2d for
ordering that a milfion should be taken from
the sinking fund, towards raising a supply ; a
mode of proceeding for which they had re-
probated Walpole with unabattDg^ virulence.
The House having resolved itself into a com-
mittee of supply, Phillips, a violent Tory mem-
ber, moved to defer the committee for the pur-
pose of taking into consideration the state of
the nadon, but be vras only feebly supported :
sir W. W. Wynne, no less vehement on the
same side of the question, was the only mem-
ber who spoke in favour of the motion, and it
was dropped without a division.
<< At iengtli the new board of Admiralty was
declared, and sir John Hynde Cotton was not
mclnded . As all the places were now disposed
of, sod all expectations annihilated, the Tories
and disaffected Whigs openly appeared in
battle array against the new ministry. The
duke of Argyle, disgusted that the marquis of
Tweedale was appointed secretary of state for
Scotland, and disaatisfied that a large body of
•his n^dy desceudents were not provided for,
resigned. The prince of Wales soon withdrew
Jbis support, and bis most confidential servants,
particularly Pitt and Lyttleton, violently op-
posed the new administration.
« Tn this situation of parties, the Tories and
disaffected Whigs opposed the re-election of
the members who ban accepted the places at
the board of Admiralty. Lprd Baltimore was
opposed in Surry by the duke of Bedford ;
X>r. Lee was thrown ont at Brackiey, by the
interest of the duke of Bridgewater; lord
lamcrick, who was to have been op|Knnted se-
cretary at war, in tbe place of sir William
Yopge, could not venture to vacate his seat for
Deb&ie in the Camrnam gh grt slti^
Supplff pref>ioua to a Redreu of Gt
flncff*.*] February 19. Theorderol
day being read for the House to
itself into a Committee of Supply,
Mr. PhilUps stood up and said :
Sir ; I never trouble you long on
occasion ; I shall be very short upon
I suppose, it is understood, if we go
into a committee of supply, it is m oj
to vote an army ; and I beg leave
submit it to gentlemens' judgments, i
ther matters are yet ripe fi>r such a ij
It was the custom of our wise anca
first to redress grievances, end then
grant supplies ; and if theur example
been followed in succeeding pariianH
we should not have heard of the <1
plaints that are now before us from
merchants: let us therefore now n
the long depressed spirit of true £ng
men, and not be blindly led to i
grants before we make inquiries.
The hon. gentleman who moved
yesterday to go into a committed
supply, was pleased to say, * The busi
of the nation had been long postpooi
I beg leave to ask that hon. gentled
does he think the great business of
nation is to grant supplies only ? Sn
Sir, I hope we are met here for other
poses toe : the granting supplies, di
necessary, is aiways laymg a bturthen
the nation : The redressing grievano
always salutary and pleasmg. Shalt
grant men ana money, at a time <j
plaints are made of misapplication!
men and money, without first inqni
into the grounds of those complak
Shall we precipitately grant tupplies, n
out first considering our aoiuty to gi
them, how they are to be applied,
who is to apply them f
Tatistock, on the certainty of not being re
chosen, as it was a boroogh belonging to th
duke of Bedford. He oMined a reversion <
tbe place of king's remembrancer in Irsiaad
and sir William Yonge« tlie adherent ef si
Robert Wal|)ole, was permitted to contiaae si
cretary at war. Orford had now succeeded i
dividing opposition, and formioj? an administia
tion on a Whig basis. The nrm phalaax c
opposition was disunited ; Polteney was dapei
and decei?ed by those with whom be bad oe
ffociatefl, and deserted even by those whom h
had promoted.*' Coxe's Memoirs of sir R
Walpole.
• From the London Magaaioe.
previous to a Redress o/Griemnees,
A. D. 1742.
[4S0
The king calls to us for advice^ the
iwiistrj caB to us for men and money :
^1)0 are ve first to answer ? Why does
the king cdl to us for advice ? that we
laay coosider the state of affidrs, and
bow what men and what money to grant.
Shall we then nnplicitly grant men and
oocej, without first considering what
men and what money it will be proper
and necessary to grant ? Is thb par*
iitmenUry? can we judge of that neces-
sitT, till we consider the state of the
nation, sod the situation we are in with
regard to foreign affiurs ? Surely no. I
am » much for granting die necessary
lupplies of the government as any gentle-
loao in this House ; but I cannot answer
it to my constituents to vote for them, till
lam thoroughly satisfied of the necessity
«f them, ana that they will be better ap«
|)Ued than the 5,267,000/. granted last
JOT.
1 hope, therefore, Sir, we shall defer the
mppiy tili we have been in a committee
sf the whole House, to consider of the
State of the Nation, which was a measure
proposed by an honourable gentleman
wer-against me, very early in the session *,
^ vH), I hope, be pui&ed.
Sir WiUiam Yonge :
Sir; we have heard so often, and upon
daoy occasions, of the custom of our
ftcestors, that 1 must begin with wishing,
«e vodd 10 this age ob^rve the custom
^^ ancestors, in all our proceedings in
■is House. They never opposed a just
^wise government in any of its mea^
^is, nor did they ever talk of redressing
pieraoces, but when some such really
*>i^ When this happened to be the
^> they did not leave people in the
w, or the government to guess what
taey meant: uey explained particularly
^7 grievance thev thought the pecple
Ijboured under, and they proposed what
^ thought the most proper and speedijr
teioedies. Under a wise government* this
^ never interfere with the granting of
ue necessary supplies, because such a
^enunent wfll certainly, if they can,
™«» every grievance, as soon as they
^ properly informed of it ; and if they
*"^ vithout a new law, they will as
^nly concur in the passing of a proper
w fw that purpose. The redress of
Prances therefore never could, nor ever
*% vith our anoeston a cause for pos^on-
* Hr. PaUeoey. See page 339.
in^ the necessary supplies, but under a»
unjust or unwise government, that would
neither redress, nor concur in redres^ng
those grievances, which were particularly
explained, and declared to be such by •
majority of the representatives of the peo-
ple. Nay, our ancestors were upon thia
liead 80 moderate, that after they had par-
ticularly set forth the grievances of the peo*
pie, and had remonstrated against them in
the strongest terms, they seldom or never^
in the same session, rdfused granting die
supplies necessary upon that occasion: afWr
they had done their duty in laying before
the government the grievances of the peo«
pie, they trusted to the government for re«
chasing them, at least tiu next session; and
then indeed, if they found the government
had made no step towards that end, they
had good reason m the next session to insist
upon an immediate redress of ^ose grie-
vances they had before comf^ned of,
previous to their granting any supfdies.
This, Sir, was the custom of our ances-
tors, the uniform custom of our ancestors,
I believe, from the first original of our
constitution, quite down to the Revolution.
From that time indeed we have had, and
now in particular we have a party amongst
us, who talk every session of grievances,and
of redressing grievances before granting
supplies, without ever so much as once ex-%
plaming to us any one grievance they de-
sire to be redressed. For my part, 1 do
not know any one grievance tne people are
now exposed to ; u>r I am sure no nonest
and loyal subject will overlook upon those
taxes as a grievance, which are necessary
for the security of our government, or for
paying off the interest and principle of
those debts which were contracted for de-
fending us agunst popery and arbitrary
power. Those taxes, indeed, afford a han-
dle which the disafected have always en-
deavoured to make use of, for rendering the
people discontented. Thc^ dare not avow
that the only grievance they feel, is the
continuance of our present happy establish-
ment; but they exclaim against those pub-
lic burdens, which have been made neces*
sary by their designs to subvert oar consti-
tution, and to which most of them owe the
religion they profess, and all of them the
security they now enjoy, as to their liveS|
their liberties, and their properties.
I am far from supposmg, Sir, that any
gentlenuin in this House, is to be ranked
among this sort of people: the oaths we
have taken make such a suppojdtion impos-
sible, or at least very uncsuuitable; but I
481] 15 GBORGB. IL Deiaie in the Comnwns on granting a Bitpply [H
am afraidy many genttemeii, both within
doora and without, through not attending
lo die dangers our government has fre-
quently, and from time to time> been ex-
posed to, have allowed themselves to be mis-
ted by the specious arguments, cunniiu;ly
insinuated by this sort of people. Tmy
represent all the dangers our government
has been lately expoi^ to as imaginary:
they, indeed, have reason to do so ; l>e-
cause those dangers have been aU owing to
their machinations, dther abroad or at
home ; and from this &lse gloss they put
upon those dangers, they conclude, Uiat
our ministers have suggested them with no
other view, than to put the public to an ez-
traordinary expence, that uxey might have
an opportunity to enrich tliemselves out of
the spoils of the people. This is specious,
but not true ; yet &lse as it is, it has, I fear,
imposed i^>on many well meaning men
without doors, and not a few within. The
same sort of people represent the power of
the crown as excessive, and by much too
ffreat to be consistent with the liberties of a
free people ; though, in reality, it is no
greater than is idisolutely necessary for
preserving us against the rebellious or
seditious practices of those, who should
therjr succeed in their designs^ would nei-
ther leave the face of liberty, nor the face
oftruereUjponamongfitus. This,lknofw,
lias Ukewiae imposed upon many well
meanii^ gentlemen, and has made than
look upon some parts of our present con-
stitution as grievances^ wfaiai are abso-
lutely necessary for preserving us against
the greatest of all grievances, and that
whitt would be the source of evenr other
grievance a fVee people can apprehend, I
mean, the overthrow of our present hupfj
establishment
I hope, gemlemtft wiU consider of
these thmgs^ vhea they hear grievances
thus generally talked of in thb House,
befiiffe they resolve to postpone supplies
till we hstire redreoKd grievances wnidi
nobody knows of. I know of nothing that
has as yet been declared a grievance by a
Bsajority of this House. Surely^ beiore
we can redress any grievance, we must
know what it is we are to^ redress, we
mtBt resohre that it is a grievance which
o^^ht to be redressed. But our present
gHevancca, it seems, are of a very extra-
ordinaey nature s They are sack as can-
not be discovered or expistfned,. till we
have resolved ouraelvea into a committee
of the .wbo&e House to consider of the
statQ of tkt naiitti. This, Sir^ ia really
something like a lady in the vapcHtu : |
is in a v^ry bad state of health : g
fimcies herself oppressed with sevcnli
tempen; but she cannot tell s^ |||
are, till she has had a consultatioa of nk
sicians to find them out, aod explsin Ai
The consequence generally is, that tk
physicians, in order to make themadi
her nocessaiy and expensive atteodi^
suggest to her fancy diseases she &e
felt, and make her swallow pilb and bole
till they throw her into a real dtstempa
I wish, Sir, this may not be our cs|
I wish this may not be the conaeouenM
our resolving ourselves into sudisd
mittee; however, I shall not detej
myself to be against it, till I h^d
reasons ma^ be offered for our goisg ij
that committee ; but since it hss beai|
long debyed, I am surprised to hesrg
tlemen pretend, that our not haviag^
in such a committee \b a reason for i
postponing the supplies;' especi^r i
that it is so late in the year as welln
the season. If they think our goiorii
such a coounittee necessary, why did^
they move it sooner I Could thqr eig
that such a motion would be msdd
those who do not think any such nul
necessary? From such a befaaviouri
would really suspect, that they ddajj
making this motion, on purpose to ht|
pretence for postponing the sup^iesd
hope this is not the case : I am penui|
it IS not They could not hof^e for a
cess in any such project; fiir, in nre^
ttion, no man who considers the m{
Europe as well as this w^ion is is^
present, wUl i^>on any coosidevatioD p|
pone the granting of those simplies^iAl
are necessary, not only for the support
our government, but for enahliag his a
jesty to take speedy and eifectiislni
sures for preservmg a balance of pever
Europe.
When I reflect, Sir, upon thedangi
oosy I may say desperate staatioo, i
balance of power is now in, and the oa
sequential danser this natkm mnit
course be in % When I reflect upoa i
precarious situation our trade sad la
gation both in the MeditenanesD a
American seas, nay, I may ssjinfvs
part of the worid, must be reduced!
unless we csn fcnrce Spak to give sptk
unjust ptetencefor senrehiBg and kLv
our ships, even in tiaoe of pesce, oa i
count of contraband goods: Whm I in
fleet upon the wise measures his voispA
has already take% or is mnr fonuis]
;433] fteciamtaa IUdreitqfGrieoane§$»
A. D. 174/2.
[4M
fer redeemiDg Europe, as well as this na-
tion, from such a oangeroos situations I
ay, when I reflect upon these things, I
cviDOtbiit be astoniriied, that any gentle-
mm should propose the postponing of the
oeceBOiij supphes* till we have r«lressed
griersncest which are so little felt, that
they have not as yet been discovered, or
atleait have not as yet been declared to
be sudi by any resolution of either House
of Misment.
Let us consider, Sir, the formidable
coofederacy against the House of Austria,
aad the present forlorn condition of that
HooM; Hie queen of Hungary has
ihevD a most Surprising spirit in her dis-
tmi: Her subjects have done wonders
in her and their own defence; but the
cosfederaqr is so powerful, that she cannot
Rsist it another campaign ; nor can we by
oundTes akme give her auch aasiBtance
as will be effiectual. Some 4>f the princes
in the confederacy must be drawn o£^
ud a new confederacy formed for her
support. Neither of these can be done
viboot money, nor can it be done at all,
if it is not speedily done. Now, Sir, sup* .
p«e France should succeed in all her
anbitious projects both in Germany and
Italy: Suppose she should establish her
Ttce-emperor upon the imperial throne,
ndooe the queen of Hungary to her
terms, and esUiUish her son-in-law, Don
Philip of Spain, in a new-erected king-
<loiD in Italy, what are we then to expect,
iiir? Can we expect a happy issue or our
war with Spain ? Must we not submit to
aoy terms France shall please to pre-
scribe? If we do not, she will, by her
^rt, or her influence, bring all Europe
upon our backs; and after the bravest,
tbe most obstinate defence we can make,
we must at last submit to what terms our
enemies shall please to propose. The
freedom of our trade and navigation would
certainly be the iirst sacrifice to this fatal
,eye»t; and our independency, our reli-
giOD, our liberties and prooerties would
tt certainly be the last; for as to our
'ives, it would then be the interest of
f nince, though not our own^ to preserve
^heiDy as much as it is the mterest of a
leaser to preserve the lives of his slaves.
These are events which I think of. with
borror, and therefore I cannot agree to
^pone any thing that may prevent them.
1 bope the House will be .of my opinion,
>nd, consequently, refuse to postpone any
^er granting dbe necessary supplies, for
t^ttkeof redressing grievances,- which
[VOL XII.]
are neither felt by the people, declared
by this House, nor explained or particu-
larly set forth by those that talk ot them.
Sir JVatkin WiUiam Wynn .-♦
Sir ; I shall readily agree with the faoiu
gentleman who spoke last, that our ances-
* The followiDg Lines, addressed to sir
Watkiu on (he Chang^e of Ministry, appeared
in the Loadon Magazine for April, 1743.
THE INVOCATION.
flamUyinscrihed to that much hononred and
very worthy Patriot, Sir Watun Wn.-
UAMS Wvraca, Bart.
AsrajBA ! dear, celestial maid.
From Heaven direct thy flight ;
Come, come to |»oor Britannia's aid.
An iiyor'd nation right.
Bob long the ooUic bane has been :
O! drag him from behind the screen. •
Sweet goddess of the ffolden sga !
. Assist 'em at the helm ;
Inspire, with a becoming raae,
The guardians of this realm:
May-Justice now, for once, be seen.
And drag him fVom behind the screen.
What! shall an enemy so great,
So pestilent a man,
Three kingdoms at defiance set.
And ev'ry soul trepan P
BehoU bis proud, insultioff mian !
O drag him from behind the screen.
Since now Corruption's overcome.
Let all her foes confess.
That slill Britannia darea strike home,
And all her wrongs redress ;
Dares help the bra?e Hungarian qneen.
And switch the snake behind the screen.
Tutelar saint ! poissant George !
This worst of dragons soiite ;
Make bis great, glaited papnch disgorge,
And own superior mignt:
From thy brave lance, so long, so keen.
The monster, O ! may nothing screen.
How will the nation shout for joy,
When, on thy brisk attack,
She sees the serpent sprawling lie
Upon his bnrnish'd oaek !
The beast hedeck'd with blue and green.
May no pretence or colour screen.
Committee choice, of twenty one!
A strict inquiry make ;
Do well the work that you're upon,
And cause old Boh to quak« :
Pull down the ponderous, huge machine,
That totters thus behind the i
From senators so wise, we, sure.
Great things may well es^ct :
True Britons will oar trade secure,
And Robin's deeds detect ;
The vessel of the state careen,
And sink the bolk behind the screan.
atf) IS OEOfiGX n. DOaiemihe Cdnmomjor grantmg u Sigiphf [4Sft
liM iiev«r oppose, or^ at leasts dM Chej
never ought to have opposed a just and
wisotgovismiiieiit in any of its measures^
nor ought they to have talked of ledress-
ui^ grievances but when some such really
existed; but I should be glad, that sen-
lleman, or any gentleman, would wew
me a govemment, that did not assume to
itself the ffreat character of being^ just and
wise, or uat would admit any thin^ to be
a grievanee which they had no inclmation
lo redress. « Pius,' « Ffelix,* • Inclytus,'
were eharacters asMimed by>tte miyt
cruel, .the most brutish of the Roman
tyrants, as well as the nsost joit and
^orious of their emperois; and those
great characters were more profiisely be-
atowed by the skvish Roman senate upon
the formeri than ever they were upon the
latter. In diis House, 8ir, we ought
never to talk of the goremment, because
it is the king's ; but we tnay talk of tiie
administration, we may censutre it, with-
out any incroachment upon our constitu-
tion. It is often our duty to do so, and I
will say, that no administration had ever
less title to be called just and wise, than
that which this nation has been under for
twenty years,past ; so that the behaviour
of our apcestors under a just and wise
administration^ can be no rule for our
conduct al present, nor any argument
against what my hen. fnond has proposed.
We ought upon this occasion to consi-
der, what was tne conduct of our ances-
tors, when real grievances not only exist-
Brsfe, indepebdeat Britons, den't
Our ezpectatiMs mock»
(No, jM^—moh. worthy members wont,)
But bring him to the block :
Let DO Tile hindrRiioe come between.
No scurry Act of Gfface,*-iio screso.
For h«re,~tnie pstriols, ooe and all,
CompsssioD 80 misplsc'd,
A kind of cruelty meet call,
Or demency debasM;
Tis jiisltoe. Hat unchristian spleen.
That cries aiond, No scraaB, no acraan.
Their lives i4iall vnlgar viUains end.
At TvbBm's triple tree?
The ladder little rogfnea ascend.
For robbing two, or three ?
To ruin reahns is worse, I ween ;
For such, there ought to be no screen.
Thrice noble, independent peers I
The faithful commons jom ;
Blow np,— brave Britisb engineen,
And spring the cursed mine :
Of ills the monatcoos macazinau
That Utent skulks behind the I
edt but wei:e renerall^ and loudly com«
plained of by the people, wfaicfa is our csm
at present In all sudi oases, we shall
find it to have been the eonslant piactice
of our anoestors to begin with an inqidiy
mto our grievances, and to insist upon
their being redressed, or upon having pn>*
per bilk passed for that pnrpose, before
they panted any supplies; and this they
have oone even when the nation was in tfaie
utmost foreiffu danger. The meoMirable
bstance in the reign of Ridiard the ^
never can, never ou^ to be forgot by s
British House of Commons. The Fiendi
had then prepared for a most forandahle
invasion upon England e they had a greet
annv asnembled ; they had transporti
rencly for that army : they had a naval
force winch we eould not, which we did
not, pretend to oppose at sea; and aM thii
withm a day's sad of die mouth of the
river Thames^ In this conditSen we were,
when the parliament assembled^ which
that king had called for grantmg him the
Mpplies neoessaiy for maintaining the
army he had prepared, and Uwt army wai
then, for want of money, living at free
quarters round the city of London, hi
such a dangerous, in uvxh a terrible situa-
tion, what did the parliament do? Did
they grant the necessary supplies? No^
Sir. The first thinff they did was to pre-
sent an Address to Us majesty, to remore
Uie lord high treasurer, and the lord high
chancellor, from his councils and me*
sence; and that all those throogfa'whNe
hands the public money had paswd, might
be called to a strict account. That king^
by the adrioe of these guilty counsellors,
returned a most haughty answer, and or-
dered them, in an imperious stOe, to grant
the supplies he demanded ; but this had s
Siite contrary efiect : it made the odier
ouse join with this in a message to the
king, that they would proceed to no bu-
siness, till his ministers were psmished sc-
oording to theur deserts. The kins^ wss at
hist foreed to comply : the ministers were
removed and punished; and the tiro
Houses joined in appeintmg fourteen com*
missioners to examine the pubKc accounts,
and to take care of the public affigurs, in
the nanoe and with the coonnt of the
king,
I shall mention another instance of a
much fresher date. Before die Revohitkm*
it had been found b^ esqperitnce, that die
long conthraanoe of one and the ssme
■ --" • ■ I I II 1 1- ^
•8eaV0i4^p.a9t.
137]
pretAnu to a Bedrest ofGriewmcet.
A. D. 174t.
[48t
pariianeoc ^ a pwvanee of the most
dangerous consequence to our constitu-
tkm. At the time of the Revolution suf-
ftamt care was not taken to remove this
grieranee ; and, therefore* the parliaiaent
very soon resolved to supply that defect.
So'earljr as in the year 1692, 4he famous
Triennial Bid * was brought in, and passed
both Houses, but king WiUiam, though he
came here to secure and establish our li-
berties, was so ill advised as to refuse it
the royal assent. This made the Com-
mons resolve, as soon as they met in No-
veober 169^, to have this Bill passed both
Hooks, and assented to by the king, be-
fore th^ granted any supplies ; and, ac-
cordingly, the very first thing they did,
was to order a bill to be brousht in < For
< the frequent meeting and calling of par-
* UaneDts,' which was accordingly brought
fai the dSdof that month, and received the
njai assent the 82d of the nextf . We all
biov, Sir, what a dangerous situation £u-
ropeb general, as well as this nation in par-
ticokr, was in at that time. We were en-
gaged in a heav;^ war, upon tlie success of
vluch the liberties of Europe depended :
we had a very numerous disaffected party
at home, who were continually forming
plots, and encouraging the French to in-
vade us ; so that our religion, liberties,
and mdependency» in a great measure,
depended upon tine parliament's granting
the necessary supplies for carrjdng on the
nr; yet m these circumstances this
Hooae^insisted upon the Triennial Bill's
bdn£ previously passed intc^ a law ; and it
was Tacky they did so, for if they had not
taken tluH opportunity, when the Dutch
were in so much danger, we should pro-
bably have Ittd no such Bill during that
reign, nor peibm, to this very day. It
Wflddhave been lucky for the nation, had
the parliament at that time insisted as
itrenuooaly upon the other billy whidi had
been refused ibe royal assent in the pre-
ccdiag sessioo, I mean the bill ' Touching
* free and impartial proceedings in parliii-
^Qent;* for thou^ the necessity of some
ndi bill ibr secunng the independency of
pBfisoieBt is now too apparent; yet, I
un afrakl, it is ou$ of our power to msdce
^ of the same method for obtaining it.
Thus, Sir, if we fcdlow the steps of our
Acestors, no danger, no inconvenience,
^ ever be thought a prevailing argu-
>Knt ibr our granting att the necessary
«8eeyol.5,p.768.
t Ibid. p. 860.
supplies before seeing any one publie
grievance redressed. I was ' surprised.
Sir, to hear the hon. gentleman say, that
the party who tadk of iredresmg grievances
before gnmtkig suppKes, have never ^et
explained any one grievance they desire
to oe redressed. The bad conduct of our
ministers, and their profusion of publie
money, haVebeen often set in a dear light
in this' House, and are loudly complained
of by all imparttd and ind€^>endent men
without doors I the Septennial Act has
been demonstrated to oe a grievance of
the most dangerous consequence to our
constitution*: the allowing of ftuch a
number of placemen, or any private pen-
sioners, to have seats in this House, has
been demonstrated to be a grievance of
the same nature ; and I gouM loention
sev^pal other grievances that have been
fully and particularly explained, and have
been exclaimed against not only by a
great party in this House, but by the
whole nation without doors. I shaU grant,
that many of them have not as yet been
declared to be grievances by a maioflty of
the people's representatives in paniament^
but fhey have been dedared to be such by
the general voice of the nation; and the
reason why the people's representatives
do not seem to be of the same opinion with
the people, is of all others the grievance
most sensibly felt, and most loudly com-
plained of.
The reason of this most surprising dif-
ference in opinion is generally supposed^
Sir, to proceed from the prevalence of
corruption, both at dections and in par-
liament. The majority in pttiiament has
for a great many years, been supposed to
be biassed in their opinions, or directed in
their dedarations, by the posts, pennona,
or bribes, they possessed, receivM, or ex«>
pected ; and this is lodged upon by the
whole nation as the greatest ffrievance,
^nd as the source of aQ our other grievw
ances : nay, it has been often declared to
be so by a majority of this House. Pen-
sion and Place-bills have often passed
through this House, and, consequently^
we must allow, that corruption has been
declared to be a grievance by a majority
of the people's representatives in parlia-
ment ; and that it is a grievance that has
been felt and ought to be removed, or, at
least, that it is a grievance which may bo
felt and ought to be prevented. As this
• See the Debate on Mr. Bromley's motSoa
for repealing it, YoK 9, p. 994.
199}
15 GEORGE IL Debase in the Ccmmmjwr gnunting a Supply [440
House, or at least the majority of va, are.
as independent, and as little liable to cor-
ruption, as any former House ever was, I
hope, we shall be of the same opinion ;
but as most of those bills have been re-
jected by the other House, or by the
crown, we may from experience be con-
vinced, that we shall never be able to get
any proper and effectual law passed for
preventing corruption, unless we very
speedily take the same method that was
taken m 1694 for obtaining the Triennial
Bill, I say very speedily. Sir, for cor-
ruption is of such a dangerous nature, that
like fire, if we allow it to ^ to a head, it
will be impossible to exUnguish it, till it
has reduced to ashes the l^autiful fabric
of our constitution.
The hon. gentleman may not, perhaps,
know any grievance the people think
themselves subject to, because he has
never, I believe, kept company with those
that had reason to complain : he may not,
perhaps, be sensible of the burdens the
people feel themselves loaded with, be-
cause he has always had a great deal more
from the public, than he was obliged to
pay to the public charge. There are
Qiany other gentlemen, and not a few in
this House, in the same case with him. 1
shall not attempt to derogate from the me-
rit of such gentlemens' services to the pub-
lic, but I can assure them, that the people
generally think, not only that we have by
nir too many such servants, but that most
of them have much greater stipends than
they deserve. This is what the people
look upon as a erievance. They do not
find fault with Uie taxes necessary for the
security of our government, or for paying
off the interest and principal of our debts ;
but they think, that a great part of the
taxes they pay, has been misapplied, by
maintaining a great number of unnecessary
officers, and paying a great number of ex-
travagant salaries; that many of those
officers have purloined, and applied to their
own use, large sums of the public money
that passed through their hands : the peo-
ple cannot help thinking so, when they
see a public officer grown immensely rich,
notwithstanding his being known to have
ccmie into that office as poor as a rat, and
to liave spent yearly much more than his
salary, extravagant as it was, could afford.
This is what the people complain of:
This is what they think the parliament
ought to enquire into, before they grant
any more supplies ; a great part of which
may probably, without such enquiry, be
disposed of in the same fraudulent manner.
The people likewise complaiii, Sir, of
our maintaining numerous armies, fittiog
out formidable squadrons, paying foreign
subsidies, and keeping foreign troops in
our pay, none of winch were necessary for
the support of our government, however
necessary they ndght be for the support of
our admmistration. The people know how
useful the disposal of commissions in our
army and navy may be to a minister at an
election or in parliament ; and they know
what purloinings may be secretly made
from a foreign subsidy, or from the pay of
foreu;n troops; but they know nothing of
the cumgers that have made those expences
necessary, or that were prevented by put^
ting the nation to such aai extraordinary
charge. For these twenty years past, m
it been so much as pretenoed, moch less
proved, that there was ever any machina*
tion or plot contrived or set en foot by the
disaffected, or that we have been threaten*
ed with any invasion ? For I hope, it will
not now be affirmed, that there was any
ground for those apprehensions we were
terrified with, in order to make us swallow
that bitter pill, the treaty of Hanover.
When gentlemen talk of the plots and ma-
chinations of the disaffiBcted, and of the
daneers we have from thence been exposed
to, tney do not consider, that they fumisb
us with one of the strongest reasons for
going upon an enquiry into our late con-
uct, before we proceed to any other bu-
siness ; for as the nation has upon that ac-
count been every year put to an extraor-
dinary charg^, during tne lon^ course of
our late minister's administration, and as
no proofs have ever yet been offered for
shewing that we were in any dtinger ; as
time, the discoverer of all thiim, has never
yet found out any thing of this kind, we
are under an indispens&le duty toenauire
into it; for if it mould appear that there
never was any such danger, we must then
conclude that our late minister and his
accomplices were in a plot asainst our con-
stitution ; and that they maSe u»p of tho§e
imaginary dangers as a pretence for get*
tin^ money, to enable them to carry op
their corrupt practices against our consti-
tution.
I hope. Sir, I have shewn that our griev-
ances are not such as cannot be discovered
or explained till we have resolved ourselves
into a Committee of the whole House, to
consider of the State of the Nation. Thev
are such as are well knovim : they are such
as have been, and are now severely felt by
all those who have no share in being ths
Ml]
premaus io a Redrtu qf Grievances.
A. D. 1742-
[449
of them. Our distemper is there-
fore very £ar from being imaginary: it
may properly enough be compared to tliat
whicii is got b^ a commerce with prosti-
tates» which, if not speedily prevented by
an efectoal remedy, either destroys the
patieat, or very much weakens his const!-
lutioik I wish this may not already be
our case. I am sure it will very soon be
ft), if we do not take care to render it al-
most impossible for any prostitute to have
a seat in this House; and this cannot, I
think, be done, unless we resolve to defer
griDtmg all the necessary supplies, till we
see proper bills for this purpose not only
brooght in, but approved of by every
brud) of our legislature.
As some farther demands may probably
be made upon us at the present conjunc-
ture, this may, perhaps, be a reason with
some gentlemen for not deferring the sup-
ply necessary for maintaining our army,
mj may, perhaps, think Aat we shall
her«tfter have an opportunity to insist
upon a redress of our grievances, before
we grant all the supplies which our present
circuotttances may render necessary ; but
besides its being a bad precedent, I do not
reallvsee. Sir, now we can determine what
auooLer of troops may be necessary for the
service of the ensuing year, till we have
considered the state of the nation in a
grand committee. The a&irs of Europe
are, we know, in a very confused and daa-
geroos situation : we likewise know, that
ve stand engaged as guarantees of the
Pragmatic Sanction; but all the powers
Dov confederated against the queen of
Hungary, except the duke of Bavaria
alone, are engaged to guarantee that set-
tlement as wdl as we, and if we do not
perform that engagement, we cannot be
accused of any breach of faith, because
tbe breach of &ith conunitted by the other
parties concerned, has made the perform-
ance on our part impossible, at least that
fort of performaaoe which consists in send-
H ^<K)ps to her assistance. We may send
W money, and this meUiod of assisting
her will, perhaps, be the best for her, ana,
I am sure, the most convenient for us. If
^ should be resolved on, and this, I
think, is the only thing that can be re-
l^^ed on, unless we have an assurance of
^g joined by some of the most consi-
««ble powers upon the continent, we
Hhi to disband a great many of the
^oops we have now on foot; tor surely
^ war with Spain does not require our
^^g up audi a numerous land army as
we have at present, e^eciaUy if no better
use should be made ot it in tune to come,
than has been in time past Therefore,
till we consider the state of the nation :
till we know what may be expected from
the Dutch, and other powers of Europe,
equally, if not more concerned than we
are, for preserving entire the dominions of
the House of Austria, it is impossible for
us to determine what number of troops
ouffht to be kept up for the ensuing year :
and our determining this question, before
we are duly-prepared for that purpose, wilL
have a very bad effect upon tne minds of
the people, because it will make them
imagme, that this parliament is to give
cre£t to, and to act upon the bare asser-
tions of ministers, as implicitly as some
late parliaments have done, which would
make them despair of ever meeting with
any justice or relief from parliament ; and
no one can tell what fatal effects the des-
pair of a brave people ma^ produce.
I am very much surpnsed. Sir, to hear
l^entlemen ask. Why did you not go sooner
mto a committee upon the state of the na-
tion i Why was it not moved for by those
who think it necessary for us to go into a
committee? Does not every one know
how much our time was taken up with
elections of very great importance, till the
very day before our last adjournment ? If
no such adjournment, which was no way
expected, nad happened, the question
would probably have been moved, and we
should have been in a committee upon
that a^r before this time. Therefore,
those who think it proper we should con-
sider the state of the nation, before we
determine what standing army is neces-
sary to keep up for the service of the na-
tion, are not to be blamed for not having
made any such motion, but those only
who were the advisers of that adjourn**
ment ; nor can I see any reason why such
a motion might not be made by some of
those who are our mbisters, as well as
by 4hose who are not ; for, in my opmion,
if we had a due regard to the dignity of
our proceedings, we ought, in every ses-
sion, to take Uie state of the nation into
our consideration, before we grant any
sup[>ly, or, at least, before we make any
particular grants fbr that purpose. ^ Ac-
cording to our late custom, the ministers
tell us what number of men they think
necessary for the land service, and they
give us an estimate of the charge : upon
this we go into the committee of supply,
and there we agree to the number, with*-
443]
15 GEORGE n. Dehaiein
out inquiring whether 00 great a number
be necessary or no; we approve of
the estimate, many of us, I beheve, with-
out looking upon it, and we grant tlie sum
total at the end of it. Is this consistent
Willi the dignity of parliament? Does it
not look like putting an implicit faith in
the wisdom and integrity of our ministers,
who, I am sure, very seldom deserve so
mudi confidence ? Is it not giving away
^e money of our constituents without
knowing why or wherefore, thoueh one of
the chief ends of sending us hither, is to
take care, that no more of their money
shall be granted for the public service, or
any branch of the public service, than is
made appear to be absolutely necessary.
I therefore think, that in regard to the
dignity of our own proceedings, and to that
diaracter we ought to keep up among the
people, the custom, should be revived and
establtshed, of taking the state of the na-
tion into our consideration every session
of parliament, before granting any par-
ticular sums for the supmy ; and I can see
no danger in putting off providing for our
army, for a week or ten days, that we may
in the mean time take the state of the na-
tion into our consideration. I shall rea-
dily concur with the hon. gentleman in ad-
mitting, that the nation is 'in a most dan-
gerous state ; I think, it is in a most ter-
rible situation, with regard to affiurs both
foreign and domestic. In Uie last two
heavy wars we spent dbove a hundred mil-
lions sterling, we contracted above fifty
millions of debt, we loaded our people and
our trade with many heavy taxes, in order
to establish a system of amurs ip Europe,
by which the balance of power might be
preserved ; and now i^r a peace of thirty
yean with no one interruption but what
we brought upon ourselves, I may say,
out of mere wantonness, we find Uie na-
tion loaded with very near the same debt,
our people still groaning under the same
taxes, our trade ruined by that debt and
those taxes, and the system of afturs in
Europe turned topsy-turvy ; so that unless
God Almij^hty interpoees by some extra-
ordinary mstance oif his providence, we
must submit to see our most inveterate
enemy lording it over the continent of
Europe, and at last over ourselves ; or we
must engage in a new war as heavy, as
dangerous, and peihaps as tedious as the
last ; and when we seriously reflect, we
have the mortification to fino, that all this
lias been chiefly owing to our own con-
docl. lUsisyindeedyamoslmdaDdioly,
ike Commons on grantit^ a Sufpfy. [444
a most dreadful situation: we have been
brought into it by our pariiament's taUag
every thing upon trust from our miniitm;
therefore, 1 heme, we shall do so no more.
I hope we shall now consider first iht state
of the nation ; because from theooe aloae
we can determine what number of troopi
ought to be kept up for the ensuing year;
for if there is no appearance of our being
able to form a proper confederacy upon
the continent, we ought to disband a great
part of our troona we have now on footi
m order to be able to encrease our naTnl
force ; because it is upon that alone, after
tlie balance of power upon the continent
is destroyed, that we must depend for the
continuance of our future independency.
This debate being over, the House re*
solved itself into a grand committee oa
the Supply, and came to the foUowiog
Resolutions; viz. ** That a number oT
Land-Forces, for suards, garrisons, &c.
(including 2,323 Invalids) amounting to
35,554 elective men, commission and
non-commission officers included, be em-
ployed for the year 17^2: and that
1,004<,947/. 10^ be granted for defrajiog
the charge thereof: that 11,550 mannes,
commission and non-commission officen
included, employed for the year 1741, be
continued for 1742; that 206,253^ 15s.
be granted for defraying the charge there-
of: and that 53,995/. 13<. 4^. be granted
for maintaining a regiment of foot raised
in America, for the service of the West
ladies, for 1742.**
Feb. 22. Mr. Scrope reported firom the
Committee of Supply the ^regoing Reso-
lutions: upon which,
Mr. Phillips spoke as follows c
Mr. Speaker ; I do not rise, Sir, (0 op-
pose any of the Resolutions thk have been
now read to you, but only to take notice,
that when some of those resolutions w&t
agreed to in the conunittee, I mean par-
ticularly those relating to the marines, and
the regunent in America, the committee
was in so great a confusion and disorder,
that it was impossible for any gentleman
who was not dose to the table, to know
what was doin^. It is greatly for your
honour. Sir, tnat you never suffer any
?ue8tion to be put, without keeping the
louse to the strictest attention ; and, I
hope, that for the &ture, brfore questions
of thia great importance areputm the com-
mittee, the chairman win taxe care topi«*
serve the same attention, Ibatemy gen^
M5]
The Pension BSl iroitght in.
toKf bife an opportunity of
nt, » well as nu assent, and that no-
thing maj be obtained by surprise.
Now 1 am upt Sur, give me leave to take
Dsdoe, that the troops voted in the com-
mtee, wliicfa are now to be agreed to by
the Hooie^ amount in the whole to
S0j6ff! men, which is 81 5 more than were
i«ied last yen'; and those are exdosive
of the trsops in tlie Plantations, Minorca,
aod Gibraltar, which are likewise on the
£d^ establishment. You have thirteen
regimesCs, and fourteen companies of in-
valids there, which amount to above
11,700 men; so that in the whole you
bre in theBritbh pay, besides foreigners,
above 62,500 landmen and 40,000 sea-
nen,whidicost^e nation dbove ^fil 1 ,000^.
oer annum; and these are exclusive of
oalf-psj officers : alai^ge number of forces,
indeed, too great, I tear for this nation
long to support ; therefore, I hope. Sir, I
tniEt from what an hon. gentleman over
the way said in the Committee, (and I re-
pose mat confidence in what he does say )
that Uiese troops will not only be kept Up,
but that th^ wffl be enmloyed ; atnl the
moment the necessity of Keeping therti up
ceases, that the troops shall also cease, I
mean all those that are not necessary for
guards and garrisons at hom^ If this is
4»oe, the nation will be convinced there ia
« alteration of measures as well os men,
aid that the troops were not kept up to
tn the people into a slavish dependence
on men in power at home, but to retrieve
the almost lost honour and reputation of
the nation abroad; that tliey were not
iept up to make fine shews in camps, and
tt reviews, but to do the nation real ser-
vice; that they were not kept up to in-
floeDce elections in England, but to re-
itwe the balance of power in Europe.
These considerations .will make every man
(^^eerfuDy contribute his proportion to the
expenceofthem.
Gire me leave to say a word more:
vhen diese supplies are granted, I hope,
*e disU all join iiacd in hand to make m-
9"^ to redress grievances, and to pass
^ wholesome bDls as may effectiudly
N it out of the power of any ministry to
^i^dead the king, to corrupt the parlia-
■ot, or to enslave the people. If these
B^tsares are taken, and, I hope, these
^^»ati wiD be taken, England will agajn
^ itahaad, the mutual confidence that
^ to lobsist between the king and his
"^ctewin be restored, and the spirits of
; ^^^pt^wUdkhaire been long depressed
i
I
A. D. 1748. [446
with the weight of heavy taxes, without
any prospect of relief, will be revived, trade
and manufactures will flourish, and we
shall, indeed, be a new people. Hie prosr
pect of these things. Sir, is greatly pleaung,
and the more so, when we consider^
that thev are in our power : let us then
cheerfully set about tnis great work, and
England will date the sera of its happinesa
firom the dorious session of 1741.
Then the said Resolutions were agreed
to.
The Pension SiU hroughi into the Com*
mons."] Feb. 26. Orderedi that leave bo
given to bring in a Bill, * For making moro
efiPectual the laws for disablingpersonsfiun
being chosen members of, sittmg or voting
in the House of Commons, who have any
Pension during pleasure, for any number
of years, or any office held in trust fur
them ;^ and that Mr. Carew, lord Gage^
and Mr. Phillips do prepare and bri^g in
the same.
March 1. Mr. Carew presented to tiw
House the Pension Bill, which was read
the first time.
Resolutions tfthe Grand Committee on
the Merchants Petitions*'] March 4r. Stt
Robert Godschall reported irma the
Committee of the whole HoaiBe, to whom
it waa referred to cemftidor of the sevend
Petitiem of the Merohanto;* the Reso*
* ^ Kotwidistandinff the plaosibHity of these
petitions, it is certain they were destitute of all
jusl foundation. The ministiy , beforethe com-
mencement of the war, had foreaeen and fore^
told, that the safferings of their trade would
be mnch sreater than the petitioners then
Imagined, beoaase of the ekteDstrenesi of it,
which did not admit of its being proieeied
eoually in every quarter by hismaj^ty's ships.
The viist sqoadroDS that bad been fitted ont for
the West- Indies, the Mediterranean, and the
channel service, had rendered it impossible to
station more onimeis to psoteet the trade, than
they really had ; and the perpetoal compkinta
entered by the BMi-ehaaiU aigaiast prassiag men,
rendered their a|^ioation, at tins tioM, unjosl
and unreasonable. ItappeiH^,thatthenamer
of ships eswplained of, (admittina: what wan
far tVom beng the case, that they had been all
taken by the enemy,) was very moderate, con-
sidering the great disproportion they bore to
the nombers of Engfisb oaptares in the veign
of king William and qaeea Aaoe. During £e
foMaer reisp», no fewer than 4^000 Sngflfsit
ships had oeen taken by the enemy; and ha
the year 1707, when upon a Kke complaint of
the merchants before pailiament, it appeared^
«47] 15 GEORGE 11.
lutions of the said Coinmiittee» which were
agreed to by the House as follow :
Resolved, 1. ^* That ootwithstanding the
repeated applications of the Merchants^ for
cruizers to oe properly stationed for the
protection of the trade of this nation, from
the privateers of the enemy, the due and
necessary care has not been taken to keep
ft proper number of his majesty's ships em-
ployed in that service, more especially in
andf near the channel and soundings ; for
^ant of which, many ships have been taken
bv the enemy, some of them of consider-
able value, to the great loss of many of his
majesty's subjects, the great advantage
and encouragement of the enemy, and t£e
dishonour of this nation. 2. That the de-
tention of the fleet of merchant ships
bound to Portugal, for near twelve months,
by the refusal of protections for some time,
and the delay oi convoy afterwards, gave
our rivals in trade an opportunity of intro-
ducing new species of tneir woollen manu-
factures intoTortugal, to the great detri-
ment of this kingdom."
A Bill ordered for the Security of Trade
and Navigation in time of War,] It was
also ordered, ntm, con. tnat leave be given
to bring in a^Bill for the better protecting
and securing the Trade and Navigation of
this Idngdom in thnes of War, and that sir
Robert Godachall and sir John Barnard do
prepare and bring in the same. Also, That
the above Resolutions be laid before the
king, by such members as are of the privy
council.
March 8. Mr. Comptroller reported to
the House his m^esty's Answer to the said
Resolutions, " That he will alwavs have
regard to what is represented to him by
the House of Commons."
Debate in the Commons on Lord
Debate on Lord lAmericVs MoHon
[448
Ibat in about two years time, 1446 Eoglisb
■hips bad been taken by the enemy, and that
at tiooes when the nation had not one half of the
merchant-ships at sea, as it had when the peti-
tions in questioD were presented. Add to this
the numoer of British seamen, supposed in the
year 174S, to be in the enemy's hands, did not
amount to above 3,613 men; whereas it was
admitted bj^ the friends of king William's me-
mory, that in his time, 15,000 English seamen
were excbansped with the enemy ; and in the
Tear 1707, though the war had not continued
lor above fire years, 18,000 had been ex-
cbaogedy 9000 more were then actually iu the
enemy's haads." I^dal,
Limerick's Motion for appoirtinoa
Committee to enquire into thjsCok.
DUCT of Affairs at Home akb
Abroad, during the last Twutt
Years : From the London Mt^awn,*]
March 9. The Serjeant at Arms htviat
in the usual manner summoned the Me»
hers to attei^, a motion was made bj lad
Limerick, ** That a Committee be ^
pointed to enquure into the condoct of ov
afl&irs at home and abroad, during the M
twenty years;" whereupon a great d^Mii
ensued. In support or his motioD,
Lord Limerick spoke as follows i\
Sir ; among the many important dutici
* Two distinct Reports of this ii ^
Debate, hSTing appeared in the London
Gentleman's Magazine, it has been tl
proper to preserve both of them in this
tioD. The London Magazine gave the _
in December 1748 ; the Cxentlemaa's (<
piled by Dr. Johnson) in May 1743.
t From the Seeker Manuter^t,
<< March 9. .Motion in the House of
mens fur a Secret Committee, to enqaire i
our affairs for 20 or 31 years. The Soeftker
Ayes had it: one that was for itdirided
House. The Noes carried it by 244
S4S. Mr. Sandys at Worcester. Mr.
ney at home. His daughter djing.
pnnce at Kew. Several of bis serranti
sereral Scotch Members not at the Hoa«
. lord Winchelsea's brothers. Gybbon,
Barnard, voted for the Committee, but did
soeak. It is said that the Prince had '
this, written to lord Carteret, to desire
lord Arcbil^fild Hamilton and lord
might be Lords of the Admiralty, and that
had been promised. ,
« March 10. Duke of Argyle resigned U^
places to the king. He gave for a reason tiatd
proposal had been made to him for going EmI
Imssador to Holland, which he underelood tsU
sending him out of the way. It is said dif
this day the Prince refused to see Mr. litde^
ton.
«< March 11. A MeHing of 186 Commonai
in the opposition at the Fountain Tavern. R^
solution to attend, Sec.
<« March 13. Lord Wincbelsea, A. BamSlai,
Baltimore, admiral CaTendisb, Dr. Lee,lfr^
Trevor, Mr. Cockbume appointed Lords of ths
Admiralty."
'* March 9. The motion for a Committee o(
£n()uiry is over : carried against it 344 to SiS.
I wish you joy of it.
<< March 11th. I wrote the above, in order
to give you the earliest intelligence of tUs
event as soon as I was informed of it, on T^iei-
day night, but it was too late for the post TV
motion was| << for appointing a eomiBiitce i»
449]
Jbr a Commktee of Inquiry*
A. D. 1742.
[450
of this HoufCi there is not ane» which,
when faithfully discharged, can contribute
more to the good of our country, and the
glory and security of our sovereign, than
that of enquiring strictly and impartially
into the conduct isi those who are intrusted
by the king with the execQtive part of our
government* In all countries, Sir, the
real interetst of the king, and that of the
people, depend so much upon one another,
cMuire into the oondact of oar afiaira at home
i&d tbroad for SO years last past ;" it was
mi^ by lord Limerick, and seconded by
»r John 8t. Alhin : Pitt, Lyttteton, sir John
C«im, and Phillipti, were the chief who spoke
^it Mr. Pelham, sir William Yonge, Wyn-
ometOD, the Attorney General, Mr. Coke, apd
fonf Htrtiogtooy against it. The two last
ipoke very prettily ; the Attorney and sir TFil-
fiim, Tery well ; Wynniagton, never better
or so well. It was in general a decent, orderly
ddttte. Sir John Barnard did not speak, nor
MT of the new lords of the treasury ; but they
di\M for the question. Sir John St. Albin
VIS tbut out on the diTision, and there were a
natter of 14 retired into the Speaker's cham-
ber. Not a frieud of lord Orford's deserted
liiiD, except Jemmy Lumley : lord Baltinoore
vas either absent, or voted against the ques-
lioQ ; the rest of the prince's serf ants were for
*'Nefer was a greater disappointment.
Thoie who proved the minority were so confi-
dent of being the niajority, that the great Mr.
Miogton harangued in the lobby those who
weotoutattbedWision, to desire them not to go
•way, because there were sereiral other motions
to be Dsdeio oooaequence of that, and likewise
to bespeak their attendance at the Fountain as
^ Bight, in order to settle the committee.
rpon irhich, sir G. Oxendeu, alter they found
it was lost, whispered a friend thus, ** Suppose
*e were to desire Mr. D. to print the speeches
be made jast now in the lobby." The first
goodcoDsequence of this has been the duke of
Argvle's throwing up. The new ministers may
BOW iurdv be satisfied they can do without
bim; and cannot but think they may do
better without him than with him. f am
asared, that yesterday a fresh signifies*
^ was made from the Prince to the King,
tbat be and bis would heartily concur in the
Kjng't measures. It is now pretty certain
tbat neither loni Granard nor sir John Cotton
^11 be in the Admiralty : the list tbat at pre-
•at if printed, is, lord Winchelsea, admiral
CaTeadish, lord Archibald Hamilton, Mr. Gock-
bomjord Baltimore, Dr. Lee, and Mr. Trevor.
Tbere is no great doubt made but that the
Bx first will fe in the commission : whether
«»: w Mr. Trevor will, is not so clear. It seems
^ery well judged to put in lord Archibald and
m Bsltimore." Coxe's Walpole : Corre-
g^Dce; Mr. John Orlebar to the reverend
H. Etough.
[VOL. XII.]
and are so inseparably connected, that no
king, even the most arbitrary, would ever
neglect, or act in opposition to the interest
or happiness of his people, if he were well
advisea, and well served by his ministers \
but as the private views of ministers are
generally inconsistent with the true inte-
rest of the people, they of^en by flattery, or
some other means, prevail upon their
master to act in direct opposition to hit
own interest, as well as that of his people ;
or they encourage his indolence, or divert
his attention, that they may the moro
freely oppress those whom he is, both in
interest and duty, obliged to protect. Aa
kings are generally beset by their minis-
ters, the misfortune is, that the king sel-
dom hears of the grievances or complainta
of the people, till by an insurrection he is
tumbled headlong from his throne, or
forced to secure it by the massacre of great
numbers of his subjects ; but by our happy
constitution, the sovereign of these king**
doros is secure against this misfortune, be*
cause by means of this House, while it re-
mains independent of ministers, the king
must hear of, and may in time.redress th«
grievances of his people ; and if any of hia
ministers have been guilty of misconduct,
it will be discovered by a fitir and an open
enquiry.
Thus, Sir, it must appear, that in duty
to our king as well as our country, we
ought to enquire often into the conduct of
his ministers. This is our duty at all tunes,
but it becomes more indispensably so,
when the people appear ^nerally dissatis-
fied with tne administration, and call aloud
for an enquiry into the conduct of our
public affaurs. From this introduction. Sir,
It may be prestimed, that I am to conclude
what I have to say, with a motion for a&
enquiry ; but to shew, that this enqtiiij
ought to go^as far back as I design it
should, I must beg leave to make a few re«
marks upon the conduct of our mmisters
for twenty years past ; and in order to ob-
viate the common objection, that our mea^
sures have been all approved of by parlia-
ment, 1 shall begin with observing, that it
is, and may be justly suspected, that during
the time 1 have mentioned, our ministers
have taken most unjustifiable methods
for gaining a corrupt influence, both at
elections and in parliament. While
our constitution subsists in its full force,
it is certain, that the parliament, or at
least this House of Parliament, will al-
ways be of the same complexion with the
generality of the people* It is from this
451]
15 OEOAGE IL
House hii majesty is to know the senti-
ments as well as the complaints of his peo-
pie; therefore, when measures generally
disliked by the people, meet with an ap-
probation from this House, it maybe justly
Suspected, that some illeg^ methods have
been taken for obtaining that ap|)robation;
and if upon a new election a mmister, who
by hb crimes or imprudence has rendered
hlihself generally obnoxious to the people,
should nevertheless get a majority of his
friends, or rather creatures, returned as
teemb^ of this House, we must suppose,
that some illegal methods were taken for
obtaining those returns.
This consideration alone. Sir, without
any other proofe, is sufficient to convince
every impartial man, that for twenty years
past an illegal influence has prevailed both
m parliament and at elections ; for during
that whole time we have been governed by
a minister, who as soon as he got into the
administration, rendered himself unpopu-
lar, and who has every year since tnat
time, increased that unpopularity, by pur-
suing measures both at home and abroad,
^hich were inconsistent with our constitu-
tion, or with the honour and interest of the
nation. It is very well known. Sir, what
a ferment was raised in the nation b^ the
execution of the South Sea Scheme in the
year 1720 : it is known, that the ferment
then raised was far from being allayed by
the measures taken, the year foUowmg, for
punishing the guilty and restoring public
credit. The discontents were so great,
that from his late maiesty's own authority,
tn his speech at the beginning of the next
parliament, I can say, they gave hopes to
the disafiected amongst us, and encouraged
them to enter into a conspiracy for over-
turning our present happy establishment.
The nation being in these circumstances,
©ne would hive expected from the nature
t>f our constitution, that the new parlia-
tnent, which was summoned in 1722, would
generally have consisted of such as were
no friends to the administration ; but when
the parliament assembled, this House soon
appeared to be of a ministerial, instead of
being of a popular complexion; from
whence one must naturally^ and, I think,
necessarily conclude, Chat our ministers
liad found means to corrupt a majority of
our elections ; and this conclusion is very
much strengthened by the large sums
E anted for paying off the debts of the civil
t' before, ani soon after the chusing of
*fct parliament; for in 1720, the sum of
WO,OOM. was paid for this purpose by the
D^aie on Lord lAmericl^s Motion
hisoratice companies ;
[454
t#d itosoratice companies : in 1721,
500,000^* more was granted by pariiament
for the same purpose, and in 1725, ano-
ther sum of 500,00(M.
Besides these largfe sums. Sir, wludi
were granted openly and expressly fer
paying off the debts and incumbrances
of the civil list ; by a dause artfully dipt
into an act of parliament in 1721, an an-
nual sum of above 96,00tf . was added to
the civil list; by ordering, that the old
pensions and annuities duurged upon the
nereditary revenues should, for the future,
be paid without being deemed to be part
of the 700,000^ settled upon his kte ma-
jesty for his life; and in l725, the ram
of 101,800^. was taken from the sinkin?
fund, to complete his kte majesty's cm
list revenue to 700,000^ per annum, aod
soon after 42,200^ was taken from the
post-office revenue.
Thus, Sir,it appours,^ that in the last 7
yean of his late majes^^s reign, there wai
no less than 1,444,000^. extraordinary
E' I made to the civil list, besides its
freed frtmi the payment of d6,OO0/.
^ /, which it was before chaiged with ;
and it is very remarkable, that in 17^i
the same minister, who has ever since, I
may say, presided in our councils, forsook
being a Country Gentleman*, as be had
before professed himself, and again began
to be a minister of state. Toisj I say,
very much strengthens the condusim),
that in the year 1722, when a new p8^
Kament was chosen, the^mintster had found
means to corrupt a majority of oar elec-
tions ; and this will answer for that pa^
liamcnt^s having made such extraordinary
additional grants to the civfl list, without
having ever so much as once enquired,
in a proper manner, into the prodnce of
the dvil list revenue, or into the manage-
ment of those revenues ; it will likewise
answer for that parliament's having ap-
proved of the treaty of Hanover, without
i^pointmg a secret committee to inquire
into the truth of the improbable facts
pretended as the cause of that treaty;
and it will answer for the minister's asking
from, and that parliament's granting, an
addition of 120,000/. per annum to the
civil list, during his present majesty**
life.
I come now. Sir, to the second parlia-
ment which was chosen under the same
minister's influence. By the conduct of
our minister, and the compliance of the
•Seeyol..7,p.itf.
45S]
fjir « C99i9^l«f qflnquky*
A. 0. 1742,
[m
last pariiameDt, it may be supposed, th^
diicooteiits of the people were no way
sllayed: it is certam they were rather
increased, when a new jparliament came
necessarily to bechoaen in the year 1727.
His present majefty's happy and peace-
able acceaaion to the throne had, it ia
true, given great joy to every good aub-
ject ; but that joy had no aort of relation
to the miaiatera of the former reign : on
the contrary, it waa very much increaaed
\x^ its being generally preaumed, that the
miflifterBy or at leaat the chief minister
of the former reign, would be diamiaaed
ud called to a strict account; therefore
it was to be expected, that the people
irouid chuae such repreaentativea as were
veil affected to his majesty, but it was
act to be expected, if th^ were left to
a (ree and uocomipted choice, that they
would generally chuae aiich os were known
to be attached to the former ^dminiatra-
tioQ. Yet, nevertheleaa, it soon appeared,
that such men were generally chosen,
which of itaelf is a strong argument against
thUparliameQt'a being freel]^' chosen, and
thitaigument receives additional strength
from the ipemorable extraordinary grant
0^115,000^* which was made to Uie civil
iJBt at the beginnii:^ of his present majes^
^% reign.
The fenr same administration being
continued by his present majesty (for the
few new members added have always been
looked on as cyphers) and this new par-
liament being likewise of a ministerial, m-
ftead (rf* being of a popular complexion,
^ civil list, by this means, got some new
•cquisitions, during this padiament ; the
mt expeaces the nation was put to in
P<yjog foreign troops, fpr securing us
ttaiostchimwical dangers, were approved
«; and the treaty of Seville, bv which a
finiDdation waa laid for ruining the Uouae
of Austria, without gaining any one ad-
^tage to this nation, met w^ A a parlia-
*^tary m^probation ; and the bases and
^plaints of our merdiimts, occasioned
hy the Spaniab depredations, both before
And after diat treaty, met with no regard
'^parlismsiK, at least nope but what
1% 1 Boay say, dictated by our miniaters.
JJjJJ* the behaviour of this parl^roent
^f^e, I think, a conWneing proof of
m methods by whidi it was choaeia ; and
ttcontifiiidceaof)lisiice gave our mkifster
J^ tl« Aeosmt «f this Grwt, aad also
«t aaoMi «C Hie Msmhsni wlw voted fax ,
**^*mtit» ia ¥eL a, p. TOS.
at last the courage to bring a 9chem^
into narliament, which would ^^ onpe hav^
absolutely ruined our constitution, by
giving all future miniatera the direction
of most of our electiona. Whep I say
this, Sir, I believe, every gentleman that
hears me will suppose, I mean the Excise-
Scheme which owed its disappointment,
not so much to the virtue of this House^
as to some noble lords who not only per-
suaded their friends here to be against it,
but would probably have prevented iti|
being agreed to in their House, if it had
been passed in this.
This most wicked and desperate scheme.
Sir, worked the discontents of the people
almost into madness. It raised such fi
ferment in the nation, that the minister
and his chief supporters in the scheme,
were burnt in efiigy at many places in thfi
kingdom ; and as this happened in th^
summer 1733, one may easUy judge, what
temper the people were in, with rej^avd
to our ministers^ the summer following,
when a general election for a new par-
liament came necessarily on ; for no one
can pretend, they had in the mean time
done any one tiling;, either at home or
abroad, lor reconcilmg themselves to the
ueople, but on the contrary, some officers
nad been dismissed for no other reason,
but their appearing against the Excise-
Scheme ; and several necessary and popu-
lar motions had been rejected in the last
seasion of this parhament by the influence
of our ministers.
In these circumstances. Sir, can it be
imagined, that the people, if left to a fred
and uucorrupted choice, would return a
majority of tnose who were the professed
friends and supporters of our Aunister?
Yet a majority of such were returned a^
members of this House, and some of them
were rechosen at the -v^xy places wheip
they had, but the year bemre, been burnt
in effigVo This parliament accordingly
behaved as the &rmer two had done:
they agreed to every thing the ministsr
nropo^ : they approved of every thing
he did, abroad aud at home ; and they re-
jected every motion, and every bill, which
he but seemed to dislike. They furnished
money for fleets and armies to assist thp
Emperor, and they also approved of oui*
givmg him no assistance : they made fL
considerable additiop to the civd list, u»-
der pretence of its su&riag by ^ Gi^
Act* : they topk no iiotice of the delusive
'»6eeTel.9, p.iOi&9.
455]
15 GEORGE IL
Dtbaie on Lord LmericVr Moiion
and provoking treatment our commissaries
had met with in Spain, becauae our mi •
nister seemed resolved to put iip with any
thing rather than enter mto a war : and
to sum up all, they approved of the late
Convention.
From hence. Sir, I think, it must be
g resumed, that this parliament was chosen
y the same sort of influence the two
former had been ; and upon the choice of
this parliament, I must make one observa-
tion which ought to be taken particular
notice of. Some of the noble lords who
declared themselves openly against the Ex-
cise-Scheme, and persuaded their friends
in this House to vote against it, were of
the sixt^n peers for Scotland. And it is
very remarkable, that not one of all those
peers could get himself rechosen at the
next election, though they were of as
good families, and had as good characters
as any lords in the kingdom ; and every
one knows, they were turned out of every
office or employment they held at the
pleasure of the crown.
Whether any corrupt practices have
been made use of for mfluendng gentle-
men in their way of voting, I shall not
pretend to decide : I hope every gentle-
man would disdain bemg so practised
upon, and would resent the attempt in a
eentleman-like manner ; but from what I
have said, I hope, there will appear some-
thing more tlian a presumption, that some
such practices have been made use of at
elections for 20 years past ; and when we
see gentlemen turned out of honourable or
lucrative employments, for no other as-
signable reason, but because of their voting
against ministerial measures in parliament,
it must be allowed, that without any per-
sonal threatenings, or even without a per-
sonal application, it will have some in-
fluence upon those whose subsistence
chiefly depends on the employments they
possess at the pleasure of a prime mi-
nister. Therefore, I hope it wiH not be
made use of as an objection to the motion
I am to make, that for these last 20 years,
accounts have been regularly laid before,
and all our measures approved of by par-
liament. On the contrary, as there is so
much ground for suspicion of corrupt
practices having been made use of, and as
those practices can be detected by nothing
less than the power and authority of par-
liament, this very approbation becomes
one of the strongest reasons for a parlia-
mentary inquiry.
After what I have said, Sir^ I think it
[456]
unnecessary to enter into a particular exs*
mination of the many steps in the conduct
of our jpublic affiiirs, that have gi?en so
great disgust to the nation ; and for which
no reason could «ver yet be assigned that
was satis&ctory, or so much as seemed
satisfactory to those who neither possessed
nor expected any place under the govern-
ment. Some I have cursorily mentioned^
and if, upon this occasion, an attempt
should be made to justify any of them, I
hope, the arguments made use of for that
purpose will be fully answered by those
whose sentiments are the same with mine.
An impartial and strict incjuiry into tlie
conduct of our public affiiirs is what the
whole nation expects from this new par-
liament; and therefore I shall conclude
with moving, ** That a Committee be ap-
pointed to enquire into the Conduct of our
Afiairs at home and abroad, dunagthe
last 20 years."
Sir John St. Auhyn :
Sir ; the enquiry moved for by the no-
ble lord, is so generally and so loudly
called for by the people without doors,
and it is what we have in former parlia-
ments been so often provoked to by those
within, who have had for many years the
direction of our public afiairs, that I caa
surest to myself but one reason for its
bemg now opposed by those very men,
who have formerly thrown out defiances,
and provoked us to enquire into their con-
duct. In former parliaments, when they
threw out those defiances, they were well
assured of luving a great majcnrity of their
friends in tne House, and consequently
of having such gentlemen named, to be of
the secret conmiittee, as would follow their
directions in the enquiry they were to
make; and from such an enquiry the^
could fear no danger, even though tne evi-
dence of their ^uilt had been as dear as
the sun at noon-day.
That this. Sir, would be the conse-
ouence they knew by experience, because
they had had a proqf of it in the affair re-
lating to the frauds of the customs, which
was brought under the consideration of
the House by the famous Excise-Scheme;
for the reason giyen for putUne that in-
sufferable yoke upon the necks of the peo-
ple was, the many frauds committed in the
customs. These frauds our ministers said
were entirely owing to the artifice and
cunning Qf our merchants and shop-
keepers; and that it was impossible to pro-
vent or put a stop to them, aoy olher wa;
*57]
for a CommiHee of Inquiry.
A. D, 1742.
[458
than by turbmg all the considerable
brtnches of our customs into an excise.
On the other hand^ our merchants insisted,
that most of the frauds in our customs
were owing to the misconduct, neglect or
connivance in the officers, and that they
m^ht be ahnost entirely prevented by
some proper regulations, and by having a
watchful eye over the conduct of our cus-
tom-house officers.
This, I say. Sir, our merchants insisted
on. They not only insisted upon it, but
they went farther. They got their friends
in the House to move for an inquiry into
the Frauds of the Customs ; and our roi-
nistere having set those frauds in such a
hideous light, could not avoid consenting
to such an inquiry ; but * what was the
consequence ? As they had a great ma-
jority in the House, the commissioners of
the Treasury,* and a few more of their
own particular friends, were put upon this
lelect committee of inquiry. That is to
By, the gentlemen who have the nomina-
tion, both of the commissioners and of-
ficers of the customs, and are, consequent-
ly, answerable for their conduct, were ap-
pointed to enquire into and detect their
misconduct, without any indemnification
to those smugglers that should come to
give evidence against a commissioner or
officer, or to any inferior officer that should
come to give evidence against his superior.
Upon the appointment of such a commit-
tee, the merchants despaired of any suc-
ctts, therefore they resolved to give them-
selves no trouble ; and the enquiry ended,
as every one expected it would, in a justi-
fication of all tne commissioners and of-
ficers of our customs.
This was a most certain proof to our
ministers, that they could never be in any
clanger from an inquiry into their conduct,
tt long as they had so ^eat a majority in
parliament; and aocordmgly, from hence-
^orth} they began to be more frequent, and
nore presumptuous in throwing out their
<lefiances than th^y had ever been before.
But the case is now altered : the majority
^ this House seems to consist of such as
*ill not approve of their conduct, unless
they find it merits their approbation;
therefore, if a select committee of enquiry
^appointed, it will probably consist of
i%h gentlemen as will make it their busi-
*Por the Names of the said Committee,
*^ one of whom voted for the Excise-
^^if^t ; as also of those members who were
Pxi^pwed on the other side, See vol. 9, p. 10.
ness to enquire strictly and impartially;
and this may, perhaps, be a reason tot
their endeavourmg now to prevent, what
they have so ofleh provoked ; but if thejr
do, it will be a stronger argument for the
motion, than any I can think of in its far
vour, andxherefore I shall add no more, but
conclude with seconding what the noble
lord has proposed.
Sir Charles Wager :
Sir ; the hon. gentlemen who spoke last,
has suggested such a reason for opposing
this motion, as, I believe, he thinks, will
make gentlemen ashamed to oppose it;
and, indeed, if I were upon this question
to determine myself by the regard I have
for the administration, and without any
regard to my country, or to the dignity of
this House, I should be far from opposing
it : on the contrary, I should, before now,
have taken an opportunity to make some
such motion, for the very reason suggested
why some gentlemen should be against
it : I mean, because I am convinced, that
a proper committee would be appointed,
and that that committee would enquire in
the strictest and most impartial manner.
This, I am sure, is what every one, who
has the honour of being employed by his
majesty, most heartily wishes for, and they
have all reason to clo so, because it would
Eut an end to all those calumnies, which
y some people, for what reason may be
easily guessed at, have been so artfully
invented, and so industriously spread
against them.
For this reason, Sir, if I were to lay
aside all regard for my country, as well aa
the regard I have for the dignity of this
House, I should most heartily concur in
any motion for an enquiry into the con-
duct of our public affiurs ; because I am
not only a friend to those employed in the
administration, but have the nonour to
have some small share in it. But the true
interest of my country, and the real dig«
nity of this House, shall always, with me,
outweigh every private or personal con-
sideration; and therefore, let gentlemen
think what they will, 1 must be against an
inquiry which I think unnecessary, or at a
time when I think it would be dangerous ;
because an unnecessary enc^uiry I take to
be inconsistent with Uie dignity of this
House, and an enquiry, at such a critical
conjuncture as the present, would cer-
tainly be of the most dangerous -conse-
quence to the nation. A minister may be
calumniated, and may have most glaring
459]
15 GEOBGE IL
Debate on Lard LimeriePs Motion
[ml
fidahooda propagated against him. Was
there ever a minister tluit had not ? But
when the charge against him is known to
be fidse, would it be consistent with the
dimity of this House to take up our time
with an inquiry into liis conduct, merely
for the sake of vindicating his character ?
Suppose we had reason to think that the
charge against him was not altogether
groundless, would it be prudent or ri^ht
in us to divert ourselves with an inquiry
into his conduct, at a time when the very
being of the nation was at stake, and when
the preservation of our country required
our closest attention i
Upon both these accounts. Sir, I must
be against the inquiry proposed. I do not
think there is the least truth in the stories
that have been propagated, nor the least
ibundatien for any charge that has been
brought against tne administration^in ge-
neral, or against any particular man con-
cerned in iu They are all, indeed, with-
out any proof, or they are of such a na*
ture as t cannot think criminal ; because
they relate to the measures pursued by the
administration, all or most of which I have,
as a member of this House, approved of,
because at the time they were r^pectively
transacted I thouebt them right. And if
any of them should now appear to have
been wrong, which I am tar from being
convinced of, I must impute the error to
the weakness of human wisdom, and not
to any criminal intention in those that ad-
vised or pursued them.
This, Sir, is my way of thinking, and.
while I think so, I must look upon an in-
ouiry into the conduct of our public af-
nins as absolutely unnecessary, and con-
sequently inconsistent' with the dignity of
this House. But suppose I Uiought
otherwise : suppose I thought some of our
ministers had, through weakness and
wickedness, misled the crown, or that they
' had been guilty of illegal practices in the
execution of what was committed to their
care by the crown, 1 should be far from
thinking the present a proper time for en-
quiring into and punishing their misde-
meanors; because, however guilty they
might be, the nation could not suffisr by a
delay of justice, whereas it might suwr,
perhaps be undone, by calling ^eatof-
tenders to an account, at a crisis more
important and more dangerous to this na^
tkm, than any our history furnishes us with
an account fl£
The power of this H^Hise is, it is true,
vastly extensive: I hog^ it will always
be superior to the power of vaj of«j
fender whatsoever ; but great aB it is, we j
cannot exert it against offenders in hi^ ,
stations, without taking up a great deal of ;
our time, and raising a mighty bustle ia I
the nation, the consequence of which, with
regard to our domestic quiet, no maacaai
pretend to foresee or determine. There- j
fore, however much we may have suf.
fered by the wicked advice or illegal prac-
tices of great ofienders, we should take a
proper time to inquire into and punish their j
misdoings ; for we ought not certainly to|
expose ourselves to the danger of any do<|
mestic disturbance, when we are in the |
greatest and most imminent foreign dan*
ger, which every gentleman must adiow ta
be our case at present.
Mr. Phillips :
Sir ; I am surprised to hear the motioq
made by the noble lord opposed by anj
gentleman in this House; a motionfounded
m justice, supported by precedent, sod
warranted by necessity. Not only justice
to the nation, but justice to those that
have been in the administration, calls for
an inquiry, that every man's actions may
speak for him, and that censure may be
confined to those only that have deserved
it. Surely no innocent man can be under
any apprehensions from the strictest exa*
mination of his conduct : those fears at*
tend the guilty only. i
The hon. gentleman seems to think sn i
inquiry unnecessary. I beg leave to ask, !
will any gentleman in this House under- 1
take to defend the measures that have bees
pursued for twennr years past ^ Will any !
gentleman say, that the wretched con-
oition we are m, is the effect of chance
only i Shall there be the least suspicion of
mismanagement, and a British House of
Commons not inquire into it i How much
more at a time when the nation is reduced
to the last extremity, by corrupt, weak,
and pusillanimous measures ^ Shall the fa-
tality that has attend^ every step of our
conduct for so many years pas^ infect
this House also, and throw us into a le>
thargy ? Surely, no. The voice of the
nation calls for an inquiry; our credit
abroad cannot be supported without it;
and the reputation of every man in this
House is nearly concerned in it. In vain
shall we attempt to retrieve our lost ho-
nour by pursuing new measures, if we do
not first censure and punish the authors of
the old: in vain shall we attempt to gats
allies^ and t9 cwvvigs tb«tn tluit we ara
mi J^ ^ CommUtee qflnjuirif,
k etfMCt in the prosecution of the war
MDstoar enemies abroad, unless we first
5; those to an account, that have been
^secret abettors and encouragers at
iOfli6*
If eter there was a cause for an inquiry
^ past transactions, it is now. Have
lit brge sums of money been raised in
1^ S peace, and no debts paid ; large
fepws raised in times of war, and no ser-
plffg performed ? Have we not neffoeiated
hgttnei out of all our allies, and all our
(idk? Treaty after Treaty, Convention
|Ber Convention, and what did these all
Hd in bat war ? How has that war been
UndttCted? Why, shamefully, scanda-
%isj|f> to the encouragement of the
pemy snd the dishonour of the nation :
tt fleets fitted out to fight the seas only,
i retaro shattered and torn, to Spithead,
le the enemy were every day seizing
rihipsfor want of cruizers and convoys,
^Daghbonring nations taking this advan-
to supplant us in trade. A gallant
irslwas indeed sent to theWest^In-
bnt sent too late, and not supported
there : another was sent to tne Me-
I, but with what intent I know
ttnless it was to cover an embarkation
troops for Italy,
a British House of Commons not
£|taaire into the causes of these things >
%ejmnst: they will. Sir, or forfeit all
repatatton they have hitherto gained.
I tf Uiese are to be inquired into, what
er method thotiby a Select Committee
jbbe dkosen by ballot? It is a pariia-
Ikntary method that has been attended
"Wi good consequences to the nation, but
%d ones, indeed, to those that have
'|Mde «n abuse of power ; and it is unac*
iRmntable to me, diat any others but such
*#ihs0e that have a mind to screen them,
^iMMild make an opposition to it. For my
'iw part, if it was the case of my brother,
'the was innocent, I should think this the
'fnperest method to make that innocence
:iKie&r; and if he was guilty, I should
' uk it the greatest crkne in me, to en-
lesfoor to screen him from national jus-
' %pt ; therefore, I am most.heartily for die
III. Henry Fox :
Sir; when I consider the present cir-
cnantances of this nation and of Europe :
iihen I reflect, that we are now engaged
a open war with one of the most potent
Iknipomsin Europe, upon the event of
vmbodi ourtrMe and navigation de-
A. D. 1742. [46f
pend : when I reflect that Europe is now
engaged in a war, upon the event of which
its liberty depends, and by which it will
probably be enslaved, unless we interpose
with the utmost of our strength, I cannot
but be of opinion, I think every man must,
that union amongst ourselves was never
more necessary than it is at this important
crisis : and therefore, I am not a little
surprised to hear a proposition seriously
made, and vigorously supported in thia
House, which must necessarily not only
revive all our former divisions, but create
new ones amongst us, and excite more
violent animosities than any that have ap«
peared in this kingdom for many years.
' That this. Sir, would be the edect of a
general inquiry into the conduct of our
public afiairs for so many years past, we
must suppose from the experience of all
former mc^uiries ; and as toe inquiry now
proposed is more general, and compre-
nends a longer time, than any such in-
auiry eyer did, this effect will not only be
lie more certain but the more fiital. Nay
that this will be the efiect must appear
from the very nature of the charge, upon
which tlie motion is founded; for the
charge consists chiefly, not in facts or
practices that must be admitted to be
crimes, but in allegations that the measures
we have been pursuing were wrong, not-
withstanding their havmg been all autho-
rised or approved of by parliament. Must
not this of course revive all our former
disputes about the fitness or unfitness of
those measures? And when the condemna-
tion or acquittal of men in high stations
depends upon the fiite of the question,
must not those disputes be carried on with
greater animosity, I may sirv with greater
fury than ever they were before ?
One part of the charge, indeed, I shall
admit to be criminal. To apply the public
money towards corrupting the members of
this House, or the yoters at any election,
must by all men be allowed to be a crime ;
but it IS pleasant to observe, how the ad-
vocates for this motion attempt to prove
this part of their charge. With regard to
the measures that have been approved of
by parliament, they first suppose that those
measures were apparently wrong; and
their inference from thence is, that Ifaere^
fore the members must have been under %
corrupt influence, otherwise such mea-
sures could not have met with an approba*
tion in parliament. Then with regard to
dections, they first suppose that tlie ma-
jority of the electors were dissatisfied with
46S] 15 GEORGE 11.
the measures of the administration, and
would consequently have sent up disslGitis-
fied representatives, if they had been left
to a free and uncorrupted choice ; but as
they did not do so, therefore the electors
were certainly under a corrupt influence.
This is all the proof they have hitherto
offered, and will any gentleman say, this
sort of proof ought to be considered by
this House as a sufficient ground for an in-
quiry?
. Questions in politics, Sir, are of such a
jDature that they seldom or never admit of
a^ demonstration ; and, consequently, in
countries where the people are allowed to
speak their minds, they will always be of
different sentiments with regard to these
sort of questions. For this reason, gentle*
men should not be so uncharitable as to
suppose, that every man who differs from
them in opinion is corrupt, or that he forms
his judgment from any thing but the con*
viction of his'conscience ; and therefore, a
parliament's having approved of any mea-
sure I thought wrong, shall never by me
.be thought a proof of its being under any
sort of corrupt influence: conseouently
what they have o&red, cannot be aamitted
as a proof even by those who are convinced
.that the measures pursued by the admi-
jiistration were apparently wrong, and
much less by those who are convinced
that those measures were right.
Now, Sir, with regard to elections :
they say, our elections must have been
under 3 corrupt influence, because the
representatives were not of the same com-
plexion with the majority of their consti-
tuents. Here likewise the proof they
offer is a downright begging the question.
That there have been, are now, and always
will be some men without doors, as well as
within, who disapprove of the measures
pursued by our government, I do not in
the least question ; but tliat a majority of
the better sort of people are so, or have
lately been so, I cannot admit. Great en-
deavours, greatartifice, and great industry,
have, I know, been lately used to impose
upon and make them so ; and those endea-
vours may upon several occasions have had
some effect upon the giddy mob ; but our
elections, thank God ! do not depend upon
such people. They are generally governed
by men of fortune and understanding;
and of such, our n^inisters, for this twenty
years past, have been so happy as to have
a majority in their favour. Therefore,
when we talk of people with regard ta
elections, we ought to think only of those
8
Debate on Lord LimtricVs Motion
t^j
of the better sort, without comprebeQJ
the mob or mere dregs of the people;
an election may be free and uncomij
though these f^pear against it, but wc
be ver^' far from being free, if the dec
were intimidated and compelled to y
as directed by a tumultuous mob of
people ; and by them only it was, that
member of this House was burnt in e
on account of the late Excise Sche
consequently, though that member
re-chosen at the same place for a
parliament, we are not to conclude,
his election proceeded from briber
corruption, because, perhaps, no on
those who assisted at burning him in e
had any vote, interest, or concern int
election.
Having thus shewn. Sir, that the ch
upon which this motion is founded,
sists of allegations of £Eicts whicli ar
admitted to be crin^inal, or of crii
facts unsupported by any proof, I ,
next observe, that, I believe, you cai
find upon your journals a precedes
entering into a parliamentary inquiiy,
less where measures had been puq
that were admitted by a great raajori
the House, as well as the nation, V
criminal, or unless some criminal prac
were alleged that were notoriously h
to have been committed, or such
member who moved for the enquiry 1
took to prove. The general enquiiyi
was set on foot in the year 1715,
founded upon measures that wereappa
ly criminal, And such as were thoue
be so by a great majority of that Hsa
of Commons. A most glorious war b
been put an end to by a most infama
peace : our allies had been deserted, if n
betrayed : a most destructive treatj (
commerce had been concluded withFruu
and when we might have prescribed ten
to our enemies, our ministers, from sob
selfish, if not criminal views of their oir
submitted to receive terms from thei
These were such measures as almost ere
man condemned, except those that we
concerned in advising them^ or canyiE
them on; and therefore they fumish<
the parliament with a just foundatioa i
an enquiry ; but of late years, 1 am sur
no sucn measures have been pursaed, di
any measures that can, or, I believe, w
be condemned by a great majority of tb
House of Commons. Therefore, we ct
now have no pretence for setting up s
enquiry, unless some particular crimin
facts should be alleged and offisitd to t
465]
for a Cammifec of Inquiry.
A. D. 1742.
[466
DTored ; and even in this case, we could
nave do pretence for a general enquiry :
ire could enquire only into the particular
facts complained of, which would take up
much te&s of our time, and give less dis-
toihance to the nation, tlian a general en-
qoiry into the conduct of our public af-
nra for twenty years post.
Such a general enquiry, with such a
loog retrospect, is without precedent, and
would be a most dangerous precedent.
If such an enquiry should be agreed to,
and a committee appointed for that pur-
pose, it would be of course insisted on,
that aD papers of state, even those of the
nost secret nature, should be laid before
tbem; and^ indeed, they could not nudce
tbeir enquiry complete without having all
such papers. Qur committees appointed
QpoQ such occasions are, 1 know, called
secret oommittees ; but how justly, expe-
lience may ^ow; for few important
tecrets have long remain^ so, after being
<moe kid before such a committee ; and
the nature of the thing ^)eaks itself, for
when a secret is committed to a great
nunber of persons, every one of them be-
comes the lesa careful ofxoncealing it, be-
came when it is discovered, it is not easy
to fix the discovery upon any one of Uiem.
Therefore if tUch a precedent were once
made, we could never hope to keep any
secret, nor wottM any foreign state, or any
{greigBerof eoBseqoenoe^ever enter into
ny secret transaction with our govern-
nent ; because he could not know, but
that the secret might, twenty years after-
wards, be discovered by a parliamentary
e&mnry with a twenty years retrospect.
out besides being a daneerous prece-
dent, Sir, the s^ttii^ up such an enquiry
tt this juncture m^ht, nay, probably
vould, be attended with the most fatal
cooaequences, both with respect to our
var gainst Spain, and with respect to our
negocntions for preserving a oalance of
power itiEurope. Aswehaveforsometime
JKen canyig^ on a war against Spain, it
a not io be doubted but our ministers have
hid iome secret intelligence from thence :
wrvery news-papers tell us that the court
tf Spain have aiscovered a plot for deliver-
ing the Groyne into their hands ; and
though that plot l)as been discovered, yet
ve may from thence presume, that our
ttiaittera have still a secret correspondence
in Sptm: woiild it not be of the most
fall ooBseqoence to have that intelli-
pate, or that correspondence discovered I
U am any oiie answer for its bebg
IVOLXIL]
kept concealed, after being exposed to a
secret conimittee of this House, and all
the secretaries and clerks that must ne-
cessarily be employed by them. We
must likewise suppose, that several schemes
have been laid before our mioisters for
attacking the Spaniards, both in Europe
and America, and some of those schemes
may probably be such as ought to be car-
ried into execution ; would it be prudent
in us, to run the risk of having all or any
of those schemes discovered to the enemy I
And yet this risk we must run, if the pre-
sent motion should be agreed to.
Then, Sir, with regard to our negocia-
tions : as the flames of war have been above
a twelvemonth since kindled in Germany :
as there is a most powerful confederacy
formed against the House of Austria, we
must suppose, that our court have been
carrying on negociations for drawing some
of the powers off from that confederacy,
and for forming a counter-confederacy in
favour of the queen of Hungary. In all
such cases, as every court in Europe has
its own particular views and interests,
the n^ociations must be (^ a most secret
nature : arguments must be made use of,
and memoriab delivered at one court,
which it woidd be most fatal to have dis-
covered to another ; and as all those trans*
actions are yet in embryo, can we desire,
that his majesty should lay the whole before
a committee of this House ? Can we sup-
Sose it to be consistent with his honour to
o so, when we must suppose, that he has,
at least with some of those courts, engaged
to keep the transaction so secret as not to
conmiunicate it to any but to some of his
chief ministers of state I
Upon the whole. Sir, I can see no oc-
casion we have for the enquiry proposed ;
and if 1 did, I think k impossible, in our
present circumstances, to carry it on with,
effect. This is my sincere opinion; and
as I can see no danger or inconvenience in
delaying it for a year or two, in which
time our own tranquillity, as well as the
tranquillity of Europe, may, perhaps, be
ce-establiwed, and all those grand a£bin
which are now in agitation finally ended,
I must therefore be against the motion,
and I hope the noble lord, when he con-
siders those things, will agree to have it
withdrawn.
.Mr. VeUers Come^aU :
Sir ; I do not get up, as presuming to
think any thing that I i^hall offer can in-
force a question of this importance. Bat
467]
15 GEORGE IL
DehiUe an Lord Umeridi^i Motion
[m
B$ this queitiOD tends to an en^r^ into
those measures, which, in the imnrersai
opinion of mankind, have been tlieught so
destructive to this nation, an opinion
which, though in my private sentiments I
have ever joined in, yet, as I have never
had an opportunity of giving my public
testimony against Uiem, I cannot now re-
frain from expressing my satisfaction at
seeing the time come, when thc^ will be
thorougfahr sifted ; and it is with joy I look
on myself as now going to give a pledge to
^e public^ that I shall ever look upon bad
measures with equal detestation.
The. people of Enriand, reduced almost
to a state of despondency from the ruin-
ous conduct hitherto pursued for many
vears past, have placed Aeir only bbdA last
nopes in the inaependence, justice, and
firmness of this parliament : it is from this
confidence that every honest man in Ae
kingdom now cheerfelly sidmiits to the
buraen we are necessitated to frnpose on
ihhm ; as they expect to see fireeoom and
happiness secured to them at home, and
national honour retrieved abroad. But as
these hopes can only be answered by an
alieradon of those measures that have oc-
casioned their distress and complaints,
how bafBed will they think themselves in
their expectations, should the motion that
has been made to you, be rejected in this
House ? How 31 an earnest would it be,
that we intended an alteration of mea-
sures, should we decline an enquiry into
those that have been so cried out against ?
Could they possibly suppose it to be from
any other motive than an apprehension,
lest We might lay a foundation for con-
demning our own future conduct, by
countenancmg an enquiry into that of
others, which is passed r
But, Sir, whether the universal com
plaint of p^t measures be the e^ct of
artifice .and misrepresentation (as mis^ht
be pretended^ on a weak and deluded
people, or sprrogs from the real mevances
of an injured and right-discemii^ one, I
say, whichsoever be the case, sur^ it is a
deference; an indulgence at least, which
indecency, in duty, it becomes this House
to shew the collective body of the people
of Great Britain, by giving them that sa-
tisfaction which a thorough disquisition
into the subjects of comprint, only can,
and only ought to give them.
And therefore, for God's sake! let
every gentleman reflect oh the conse-
ijuences that will attend your determinap
iionintiieaffidrbefbreyou. Is &e screen-
ing a few public delmquenti from enquiry,
to be put m balance with the giving »•
pose to the disturbed minds of the whok
people of three kingdoms i
inquiry is the criterion of public iin
tue : It may, like Ithuriel's ^ear^ detects
devil, however disguised in the titapt of
an angel, but can never obscure the
brightness of truth. If measures haie
been right, they will stand justified by it,
and the people of England will rest sstis^
fied: if they have been iniquitoas, the
people expect justice on whomsoever the
^ift falls, and wheresoever it may extend
itsrif. It is not a narrow personal enqnkj
that is aimed at, meanly confined to das
or that oflender, but an enquiry into of*
fences, wheresoever they shall be found,
that becomes the dignity of this House*
I shall not take up your time so amie-
cessarMy, as to enter into a partieohr dii«
auisition of those measures^ that csH ftr
tnis enquirv, which have been so otai
and so well exposed, and wkkh speak
more stponriy their own guilt, Asa the
moat powemu eloquence can pmit eut
Unexperienced as I am in natters ef s
public nature, I shoidd think it ao difllh
cult task, to run through- a dedoctioa of
our public mismanagement, bothathooie
and abroad, too gross not to be the objects
of common dis^mment, and seme in*
stances pcarhqw that have not come willi-
in the notice of the general complsmt
But I should think such a minute oiiciii-
sion not only unnecessary but imprcmer,
as this motion is most justly founded oa
Uie general fiu^e of things, and not to be
diverted by giving room for a debate oa
particulars, the proper subject of future
consideration; And, Sir, was it onlyfnmi
what you heard the other day at your bar,
and the Resolutions this House came into
in consequence of it, the expedieacy of Uie
present motion would be sufficiently is-
forced.
We have groaned under an admiouM^
tion that have not only taken evtiy step
to destroy our own liberties at home, but
have made us accessary in subverting, st
least endangering all tne liberties of Eu-
rope ; who have made the British nama
the contempt of its enemies, and k»t die
confidence of those, whom parity of n-
terest should make us consider as our
friends : an administration whose influenos
has diffused neglect, abuse, and corrop*
tion into every the most ratntile braach
of our domestic ceconomy; for there is
hardly an office in tile kingdom» frm^
4fl9]
fir n C$mmSi99 ^ittyuwy.
A. B. 1748.
[470
\aweU to ike hii^best^ thM does not call
aloud forporlianenuify enqairy : aaadmi-
iiistretion that, when it dOTBt no longer with-
itmd &e united voice of a justly enraged
tie, dosed itaelf, in soaae part, with the
t Ae tnost{irowking strains of in-
J thai ever were dared to be ofier-
ed to any nation under the sun in our cir-
conuCaneas, by making the most distln-
goifihed inalniments of the most detested
mesnires triumnh, by their exaltation, over
the injuries ana resentment of the whole
BliMiMtioiK
Bat, Sir, it is the future ffood conse-
WBces that win attend this mqaixy, and
wsxaaiplea arising from it, that prevail
vidi sue over all oUier considerations : I
have no doubt of seeing a reformation of
Biessures for some time : who, that looks
nofid this assembly, can doubt it, as Ions
aik subsists thus constituted? Awiseand
hsaol perKanent will always make those
n tiie direction of afliurs so too. But all
Aeie diiags have their periods, whereas
eunples are of perpetual security.
We ate now, Sir, in a situi^tion, both as
to oar foreign and domestic afibirs, which
poBtB out union as the only means that
can make tss a glorious and Imppy people,
aad found the urone of this royal famdy,
which every man of common sense and
hones^ must wish for, on that never to
be shaken basis, the undivided hearts of
the people. And, Uianks be to God!
the pleasng prospect already opens itself,
hj the subooing of those unfortunate dis-
tmctionsthal bave been artfully fomented,
is a general zeal for promoting the true
istevest of our king, and the good of our
cooatry ; a prospect that must give inex-
presiAile joy to all lovers of both, and mor-
tification to none but those, who are widced
wxsngh to prostitute the name of this fit-
mOj to serve the infamous views of their
ovn selfish pc^icy. National union can
oq)/ be brought idiout by giving national
tttn&ction ; and I look upon the step we
^now taking as peifecUy contributory
to that end. True union can only subsist
<OKmj^ honest men : all other union is
ttoudre, and destructive of itself.
The onion I am speaking of is indis-
MbMe, and should the dregs of faction,
^^ the falsely assumed denomination of
t|myobly made considerable, attempt
tfi iotemipt it, they would only discorer
^ own ittsignifiomcy, and add to the
^tempt and detestation the public had
rfthem.
As for the method proposed by this
motion, it is the only one by which a pub«
he inquiry can be carried on properly, or
with success. The impropriety of laying^
all papefs before the House, has been ofien
allowed on all hands, and every man
knows how easy it is to obstruct or per-
plex an inquiry eo extended as this is, if
carried on before so numerous an assembly.,
But this is so obvious to any man who
means getting at truth, that I need only
say, that I consider aU arguments aeainst
this method, as objections raised only be-
cause it is practicable. For my own part,
as I consiaer this question, as tendmg to
restore satisfaction to the nation, credit
aad poi>ularity to the government at home,,
and weight and dignity to it abroad ; and
as it tends to the hononr of this House, I
am heartily for it.
Lord Perceval .•
Sir; I should act a very mconsislent
part, if I did not support the motion now
under your consideration, with the samo
zeal with which I concurred in that made
some few days afier I had the honour of
taking my seat in this House. Nothing,
Sir,* mis happened, nothing. Sir, can hap«
pen to alter my opinion m this respect,
that the public have a right, that it is a duty
incumbent upon us to inquire strictly into
the conduct of the late administration.
It was then my opinion, that we had
grounds sufficient to induce us to that en-
r* ry : the general voice of the nation, the
ost desperate condition of our affiurs
both abroaa and at home, then rendered
die enquiry highly necessary; the pre-
sumption was strong, that the interest of
the nation had been betrayed; and I
thought I should have abused the con-
fidence reposed in me by my country, if
I had not endeavoured to discover in what
manner, in what instances, and by whom
it was betrayed.
But these reasons for enouiry are in«
finitely stronger now than, then ; we had
reason to enquire then from the suspiciona
of tiie public, and from our.own suspicions.
These reasons still subsist; and to these
are added ^ suspicions of the king him-
self: to these are added the visible opinion
of our allies abroad.
The king has at length, dismissed h»
mfhistef , and he has dismissed him with«
out any application from d)is House to
that purpose. He has done it . of bia
own motion, His majesty has dismissed
a minister who had served him many
yean, and, as we are well convinced.
15 GEORGE n.
471]
against the incUnation of that miniBter.
Had hk majesty believed, that he had
served him faithfully, who can imagine,
tfiat he would have turned him out of his
aervice? We must therefore oondude,
that his majesty's opinion has concurred
with the opinion of the nation, with the
opinion of those in this House, who ex-
pressed suspicions of his conduct
Our allies abroad have visibly proved
by their late measures, that they enter-
tained the same suspicions. A general in-
dolence seemed to have seiaed on ail the
powers joined in common interest with
us : their resolutions were as languid, their
conduct equally tame and despicable, in
the general danger of Europe, as the
councils of this nation. We were told,
that this infatuation abroad was the cause
of our weak and pusillanimous measures at
home. But it is now discovered, that
Aur conduct was not influenced by their
measures, but that their measures were
influenced by our conduct. The mo-
ment that this minister was divested
of his power, Uie charm was at once
dispelled: the Dutch, notwithstanding
all the dilatory forms of that govern-
ment, proceeded to a vast au^entation of
tl^eirforces. ThekingofSardmiahasdeter-
mined to take part in the common cause ;
and it is apparent, that from the removal
of this minister, ihe spirit of the grand
alliance has happily revived, as much as it
was once fatajl v depressed by the removal
of the great duke of Marlborough.
This happy event demands our atten-
tion ; it has opened a prospect of preser-
vation to the balance of power, of which
we had lost all view before. If we do not
seize this happy moment, how can we an-
swer for it to ourselves, to our country,
to posterity? But unless we engage with
vigour in this enquiry, how can we hope
to avail ourselves of this event? Does any
man imagine, that it is a chanffe of men
that has given this new life to the couns^
of our allies? No, Sir, it is the confidence
that a change of measures will be the con-
sequence of a change of men : and such a
confidence must perish in its very birth,
if an enquiry into the errors c£ the past
administration should be stifled in this
House;.
Sir, to extrigate this nation, or to extri-
.cate Euroj^e out of that labyrinth of dan-
gers in which we are all involved, it is ne-
cessanr tha^ the present administration
should be supported by the spirit and in-
clinations of the people. The confidence
1
DOaie M LofiUm^uVM MtdioH
[472
which is necessaiy to give them weight
abroad, is equally necessary to enable Ham
to raise the vast supplies at home, wluch the
critical condition df our interest demsnds.
This confidence in them can never be at-
tained, but by a vigorous prosecution of
this enquiry. ThepuUic nave some dis-
trust, that the new aaministration are elack
and tender in this reqpect: in voj own
breast I have none : 1 am happy m this
change, which has fallen in favour ot'
those for whom I have entertained the
highest esteem, and for some of whom I
have a singular and sincere friendahip.
But, Sir, we must pa^ some regard to the
opinions of the public, as well as to oar
own, and they will never be conviooed,
that the new ministers mean well, if this
enquiry should be defeated here : they will
interpret the coldness of this House to a
disposition in the administration to protea
ana screen, which must in the end produce
the worst effects, both to the public and to
them. And therefore as a friend to my
country, and as a real friend to them, I
shall follow this enquiry as fiiraslam able
to pursue it.
Sir, I shall trouble the House very little
farther at this time, but I must obeer^e
with great submission, that I think all ar-
guments that are used to .prevent, or to
delay the present enquiry, are very inde-
cent and aisreqiectful to this Housed for
they bear this inevitable construction, that
this House is actuated more by passon
and prejudice, than by impartially and
justice. No man can nave tne conMence
to assert, no man can mean, that if thelaU
minister deserves the censure of parlia-
ment, he should not receive it : they can
therefore mean nothing, but that they
think him innocent, and think, that if we
enter into this enquiry, this House is de-
termined to pronounce him guilty« whe<
ther he be so or no.
In private life, what man of commoo
sense would dismiss a steward after a ser-
vice of twenty years (during which his ac-
counts had never been inspected) witboat
a careful examination, bemre he gave him
a discharge ? the public stand in the same
light with regard to this minister, and the
public will want common sense in diis in-
stance, as a private man would do in the
oUier, if they suffier this minister to retire
unquestioned, laden with honours and as
immense wealth, far exceeding what the
just and known profits of his past employ-
ments would have furnished.
47S]
for a Committee qflnjmf^4
A. D. 1742.
[474
Mr. Henry^Pelham :
Sir; k would yery much ahoiten our
^datesy ttpon this and every odier occa-
aion, if gntiemen would consider atten*
tirel J die lobject of the debate, and keep
dose to the aigument* without running out
into haiangoet or flowers of eloquence,
which may be made use of upon any other
subject, as well as that wliich happens
then to be under the consideration of the
Hoow. .That we have a right to enquire
mto the conduct of our pubfic aflBiirs, and
that upon certain occasions we ou^ht to
enquire, are questions that have notmne to
do in dds debate, because they are such as
no gentlenian will deny. The only ques-
tions BOW under our consideration must
therefore be, whether we have now any
occssioB for making such enquiry, and if
we have, whether we ought now, or in this
Koion of parliament, to enter upon that
oqoiry. With regard to the first of these
tvo questions, I hope it will not be. said,
that we ought every session of parliament,
or oDCf in every certain number or term
of years, to appoint a secret and select
committee for enquiring into the conduct
of our public a£Biirs. from the lime of the
hst parlianientary enquiry. This we can
no way pretend to, either from custom or
reason; for it is certain, that the custom
hai always been,' not to set up a parlia-
oentary enquiry, unless when great crimes
vere known, or strongly suspected to have
been committed ; or unless when such
measures were pursued as were allowed to
hare been weak or wicked. This, I say,
has always hitherto been the custom^ and
reason must convince us that it is just ;
aad that it would be wrong in us to set up
a parliamentary enquiry, when there is no
vdl-grounded suspicion of misconduct ;
for as such enquiries must always be dan-
gerous and troublesome, they ought never
to be entered into without an apparent ne-
cenit'
Taking it therefore for granted. Sir,
^ no parliamentary enquiry ought to be
«et op, unless when there appears to be a
v^l-grounded su^icion of misconduct, I
^ observe that this suspicion ought to
k tuch a one as prevails m this House ;
and if this observation be just, it must be.
wrong to talk, upon any such occasion, of
^ Toioe of the people, or the voice of the
>a|ion. Sir, the voice of this House is the
voice of the people, the voice of the British
iMioo. It must always be understood to
^iQ; for there is no other way of deter-
mining what is die voice of the nation* If
we were to form a judgment of this from
what we heard without doors, every man's
judgment would be according to the sort
of company he usually convened wiUi. In
a free country the measures of the govern-
ment in genml, and even every particular
measure,, will be canvassed by the people
without doors, and will be condemned by
some and applauded by others. A gentle-
man who keeps company with the former
will from thence judge, that the voice of
the people is against the government; and
one who keeps company with the latter will,
for the same reason, judge, that the voice of
the people is in &vour of thegovemment ;
consequently one of those gentlemen
would be for an enquiry, and the other
against it, for one apd the same reason ;
therefore, when such a question lumpens
to be started in this House, no ^nUeman
ought to consider what is the voice of the
people without doors, nor ought he to al«
low what he has heard without doors, in
the least, to enter his thoughts : if he does^
he can hardly avoid being prejudiced by
the company he has kept, and sudb a man
can never bea good juoge in such a ques-
tion.
What then. Sir, are we to do ? How are
we to judge upon such occasions i The
answer, is easy ; every gentleman ought to
consider by himself the measures^ pursued
by the government If a general inquiry
be moved for, he ought to consider, or,
perhaps, reconsider by himself, all the
measures that have been pursued by the
government during the time proposed to
be inquired mto : if upon sucti an exami-
nation he finds reason to conclude, that
they have been generally wrong, he oug^
then to agree to the mquiry proposed:
but if he finds reason to conclude, that
they^ were generally right, he ought to be
against it : nay, even when he mids rea-
son to condemn any one or two particular
measures, he ought to be against a general
inquiry ; because afker that question is re-
jected, he may himself propose a particu-
lar inquiry into the affiur he finds reason to
condemn or at least suspect, and that
question may be agreed to by the House,
notwithstanding our bavins rejected the
former. But in such cases I must observe,
that according to the usual custom of par^*
liament, we ought first by a proper ques-
tion to condemn the measure, before we
put any question for enouiring into the
authors, or the conduct or the authors of
any particular measure.
15 GEORGE IL
HoWf Sir, as the present question is fdr
« ffeneral enquiry, and for a longer time, I
j^dieve, than ever any former empiiry was
proposed to extend to, it will appear from
what I hare said, that every particular
gentleman must enter into the examina^
ttfon of all the measures pursued by our
Ipovemment during that long period ; and
'SieiHeforey I hope, it will not be thought
impertinent in me to enter into that exa-
mination, or to endeavour to justify our
public measures, especially such of them
as haive been particokrly objected to i\fi
tiuB debate; and here I must previously
observe, that in all such cases we ought
not to form our judgment from the light in
which any past measures now appear to
OS, but from the light in i^ich it Ad pro-
bahfy appear, when it was at first resolved
on ; for considering the narrow limits ofhu-
saan wisdom or knowledge, and tlie short-
SMBS of human foresight, future incidents
«Bay often make a puUic measure appear
to be wrong, though oocordiag to all
Annan appearance, it appeared at first to
teneht.
Aner having made this previous ot)eer-
^•tion, I must s^p, Sir, I am surprised to
hear any fault now found with the mea-
sures that were taken fi>r punishing the
niflty, aiid restoring public credit, after
Ae violent shock it received firom die
widced executicm of the ftital South-Sea
fidieme in the year 17% ; because future
incidents have been so far firom condemn-
ing any of those measures, diat the im-
tnediate revival of public credit, and
the flourishine state it has been in ever
ainoe, has fu% demonstrated, that those
neasuves were wise as wdl a^ just As
to the guilty, they were all punished.
llieT were not, perhaps, punished so se-
«i«rely as the sufferers expected and de-
aired ;^ for it is natural for men that have
teen injured, in the first violence of their
wsentment, to desire a punishment more
severe than common justice can admit of;
but they were all punished so severely,
Ibat when the first violence of public re*
fentmeat was over, the punishment began
to be thought too severe, and was there-
ibre by w<ay of ridicule, <»lled * Justice by
the lump/
The next measure of a domestic nature
Aat seems to be objected to, is the money
granted firom time to time to the Civil
List, and the additions that have been
made to that revenue. If there was any
crime in this, Sir, I must really think it
lies more properly at our own door, than
Ddate oa Lord Idmerid^s Motion
{9A
at the door of any miiuster, or of the
ministration in general; and
before we agree to this question, we
I thmk, to amend it, by lesolvnig,
committee be af^inled to enquite i
the conduct of oar affahm at heme
abroad, and into the conduct of the H<
of Commona, during the last twen^yi
But as none of those grants
without having proper estiinates aad
counts laid before rae House, and at
thoi(& estimates and accounts the
of those grants were made appear^ we
have no reason to find fiiuit eiti^er
our ministers foreskin^, or with the H<
of Commons for ^raati^ any ^f die
of money, or additions mat were
the civil list. . And> indeed, if vre
der, that there are many
charges whidi 6il upon the civil
▼enue,' and many articles whlda
higher than that at which thej
estimated, we cannot be surpriiied^
the late king's time it became
from time to time, to giant a
paybj^ off the debts of the civil
that his present nunes^'s miniatera
desire to have an addition inade to i
accession to the throne.
Hie Excise-Scheme is another
a domestic nature, that seems to
been particidarly objected to in tills
bate. I know, Sir, that great art
dustry was made use of to make
believe, that this scheme was intei
an introduction to a _
that it was a preliminary to a fonned
sign for destroying our constitutiiHi,
making slaves of us all. . But as I liad
that time, and have had ever aincx^^
firiendship and intimacy with thoae
approved of that scheme, end '
it into this House, i know the
of those insinuations. However I
not desire gentlemen to take my word
it. I shall only desire gentlemen to
a little charity, and to judge of other
actions and intentions, as they would
sire others to judge of their own. If
do this, they will not ascribe any
to a wicked motive, when an upr^t
can, with more probability, be
and this is evidently the case with
to the Excise-Scheme. I hope it
granted, that to prevent fiauds in the
tection of the public taxes, mid
increase the public revenue, is as
and even as laudable a design as any
can entertain ; and, I believe, it wiu like*
wise be granted, that the Exose-Scbem^
n
far a CommitUe f^Inkqvky*
A. D. 1742.
[47a
iknredl
lit been paned ioto a law, woqld have
Aa eAct; at least it might begranted,
tH vai v^ reasonable to presuioe it
Ubive had this effect, from the ex-
» we had before had of the effectof
^ the doty upon coffee, teii, and cho-
% by way or excise upon the con«
jUion, instead of raisine them by the
lodof CQStoms upon the importation,
illoiniig those customs to be drawn
upon the exportation. Hiis then
M motive f(Mr improviBg of, and in-
the Excise-Scheme, which must
to have been an uprichtone;
_ on the other hand it is said, Uiat this
fe1rould have overtomed our con-
y and established arbitrary power,
Kfrmg ministers an uncontroiuaue in-
ee at all elections^ That it would
tad such an effect I stiU very much
ba; and aa our mimsters had ifo ex-
of this in any paralld case, tfa^
not therefore be so certain of this
18 of the other : cooaequeatly it
probable, that their approving of,
inlrodacing that scheme proceeided
a good intentioa, than that it pro-
nom a wicked one ; and I am
it is mudi more diaiitable, and more
iChiistian, to suppose it proceeded
the former, than to suppose it pro^
d from the latter* But fet their de-
be what it wOl, their throwing it up
as they did, was aome sort of
t, and induced most people to'
the attempt, which was the tme
ofthe next goieral electbn^s gomg
m their mvonr; audit onghttl
to be a reason for its bemg never
sttDtioned in this House, eapecidly
nation no ways suffieied by the at-
^ Ithink, Sir, are all the meaaurea
estic nature for 120 veara past, diat
Ibeen objected to in this deoete, and
' fns could have been raiaed against
, I betieve, they would have been
L Then witjli regard to affidn
|fiRtigB nature, the treaty of Hanover
\ by those gentlemen always made
en. of their aong, and the oriainal
of all their compkinta; and in
rto msike this treaty liable to any,ob*
»they wlia cannot know, expmsly
liet what hia late majesty, who
I and certahdy did know, affinqed,
( Speech « ihe next session of pailia-
^iedaring expressly, that the neg»>
^Sea¥oL8;p.4M.
ciationa and engagements, entered into by
some foreign powers, which seemed to
have laid the foundation of new troublee
and disturbances in Europe, and to
threaten his subjects with the . loss of tha
most advantageous branches of their trade,
obliged him, without any loss of time, to
condude that treaty. It was then well
known, what those eneagements were:
they, in part, appeared even from the
public treatv : the Spaniards were resolved
to wrest Gibrdtar and Minorca from us s
the emperor was resolved to support hia
Ostend company in spite of us* j^ these '
purposes th^ were toassist each other ; and,
the xine of Spain, as a &rther recompence^
granted the emperor's subjects such liber-
ties and privileges in both the Indies, aa
were inconsistent with our commerce, and
with the treaties subsisting between Spaua
and us. These were their engagementsi^
and if we did not sdbmit, the emperor waa
to attack his majesty's foreign dominions^
whilst Spain wa^ to make a diversion by
invadins these kingdoms in favour of thai
Pretender. The court of Vienna went
even so far as to threaten his late nu^esty
wi& both these attacks, before he entered
into that negociation, which concloded
with the treaty of Hanover.
These are facts. Sir, which are founded
upon the testimony of our late soverei«s
I am sure, a much stronger testimony uaa
the avermoit to the contrary of anyprivate
gentleman : and these fiK!ts will for ever
justify the treaty of Hanover, and all the
measures we took consequent to thai
treaty^ especially when we consider, that
by those measures we not only prevented
the dangers wherewith we were thrsttten-
ed, but obliged the emperor to give up hia
O^nd company, and Spain to confirm our
right to Gibraltar and Minorca, and to re-
c^e fiam her engagements in imrour of
the emperor's subjects with respect to
trade ; both which site did by th^treaty of
Seville; and therefore I am surpnced to
hew that treaty found fault with^ We
did not, it is true, by that trealy, obtain
immediate satisftction cnr reparation for alt
the damage she had done our trade, bei
cause it was impossible to compute and
ascertain that damage ; hot we obtained a
promise for immediate reparation as to
some part, and aa to what remained^ it
was to be settled and adjusted by commia«
saries mutudly to be appointed, who were
to finish their conunission within the apace
di three years. If Spain afterwards re*
fused to pefform her eqgagementsi or ra-
479]
15 GEORGE II.
Debate on Lord Lhnericl^s Motion
ther delayed the performance tinder fiivo-
lotts iiretences, for the never expressly re-
fbsedy it was what our nuniBters could not
foresee nor provide against ; for without
trusting to some promises to be performed
injtduro^ it is impossible to negociate or
conclude any treaty whatsoever.
But, Sir, with regard to Spain's per-
formance dT these promises, and with re-
gard to the depreaaftions afterwards com-
mitted by the Spanish guarda costas, our
ministers cannot justly be accused of any
neglect; as may appear from the many
memorials, letters and papers rdating to
those affiiirs, which have, from time to
time, been laid upon our table : they never
ceased making application; the Spanish
ministers never ceased promising. If our
ministers were shy of beginning hostOities,
as long as they had any hopes of obtaining
leparation b]^ mir means, are they toblame r
Are the ministers of a trading nation ever
to blame in such a case? Sir, their shy-
ness in this respect, especially with regard to
Spain, ought to be the ground of applause
rather thiui enquiry : and in future ages,
when time has put an end to envy, which,
thank God ! is not so long-lived as truth,
It will ^pear to be so*
I now come, Sir, to consider our. beha-
viour when the war broke out between
France and the emperor in the year 173S :
in that war we had certainly no concern or
interest, any &rther than as it might affect
the balance of power in Europe ; and witii
regard to the guaranty of the pragmatic
sanction, we were set free from that en-
gagement,by the emperor's having brou^t
Uie war upon himself: we had therefore no
conoerp, nor any obligation to enter, either
as principals or auxifiaries, into that war;
but as, by its event, it might affect the
balance of power, we were therefore in
prudence obliged to augment our forces,
Doth by sea and land, in order to be ready
to put a stop to the arms of the victorious
side, in case their ambition .should lead
them to push tlieir conquests farther than
was consistent with the balance of power
in Europe. If we had delayed our prepa-
rations till this event had actually happen-
ed, we diould then have been too late: the
vanquished would have been obliged to
submit, before we could have come to their
relief. Therefore, I still think, it was the
most prudent.part we could act, to stand
neuter at the begionbg of that war, but to
prepare for the worBt r and our allies the
I>utch, whose wisdom some gentlemen take
all occasions to extol, held the very same
[*J
conduct : nay, thty went Anker; thi
actually agreed to a treaty of neutn^t
and yet notwithstanding that agt^tawa
they augmented their forces, in order to I
ready at all events. Bythisconductvepi
ourselves but to a very small expence, ai
yet that expence had as good a& efcct, i
if we had put ourselves to a much great
and brought ourselves into much greit
danger, by engaging as parties in the m
The parliament was therefore in the ik
to approve of those measures; their bin
done so can be no argument of their hi
iag beeti chosen or governed by a cocn
influence ; nor can Uiose measures, or li
approbation they then met witli,nov]
foni any reasonable ground for a pait
mentary enquiry.
The only remaining measurs that 1
been objected to in this debate, and tka
fore the last I shall take notice o^ isll
Convention with Spain, which was bm
ed upon a maxim I must still lupproret
because it is such a one, as I nope, i
always be held sacred by those who hi
the administration of our public afignj
mean that of never engaging us ia a n
especially with Spain, as long as them
the least reason to hope for obtaining i
dress by peaceable means. By that tid
the king of Spain acknowledged the h|
ries that had been' done us, and pronsj
to make satisfaction, by paying, a cez«
sum here ^ London in the space of {(
months ; this was such a proof of d
court's being in earnest, and firmly vd
ed to do us justice, that our minHl^
upon the maxim I have mentioned, oil
not but agree to it ; and as we werei
ther to promise nor give up any thingl
that treaty, they had the more reaioa
accept what the court of Spain offered.
Uie court of Spain delayed perfomuDgfl
engagement, as they had don^ theirfoM
our agreeing to this treaty could occsH
no delay in beginning hostilities, hot al
would have been otherways occasioQedj
the season of the year ; and their fiuliif
the performance of such a soleom ands
plicit stipulation, would of course rai
them blameable in the eyes of all Burn
which, considering the intricacy of I
other disputes between the two natifli
was a point our ministers were in the i^
to aim at, and has, perhaps, been die JRI
cipal cause of Spain's Temaining hitta
unassisted by any power in Europe. 11
measure, therefore, or the approbatipft
met wiljh in parliament, can as little affii
a just cause for an enquiry, as any oA
48r]
Jvt tt Cowuniaee eflmfuitv.
.; 4&jBr.rne.
f4t»
that has been taimlioncd in tiua debate;
and thence, I hope, it will appear* that .we
)i3fe at present no soiifi ground for aa en-
quiry, mm the simposied weakness . or
wickedness of any of our late measures*
If a miaiater, or an administratiany are
tobe comoared to the steward of an estate,
ire shall from thenoe find as Iktle reason
for an enquiry ; nay, upon this ptjnoiple,
it would be unjust in us to call toeoi now
to a general account* If the steward of
an estate passes his accounts regularly, and
deiiven up hia vouchers every year, and
accordin^y receives an annual discharge
or release,- it .would be most unjust in his
lord to expect or desire, that after twenty
jofB service he should be brought to a
general account, as if no such annual ac-
count had ever been delivered or approved
of. This is exactly the case of our admi-
nistration ; they have regularly every year
deli? ered in their accounts ; those accounts
have been annually passed in parliament,
and every article approved of; would it
not then be uniust in us now after twenty
jevs to tell them, we will now overhate
all your accounts ? The accounts you have
delivered in, the approbation you have met
vith, the releases you have received, shall
psfis for nothing : you shall now deliver in
a general account from your first entry
into our service: we will examine it strictly,
and win admit of no article but what you
can fully prQve to have beofi usefiiUy laid
out or expe^ed for our service. Sudi a
proceedio^ would be so unjust, that I can-
aot think it needs any farther explanation.
But now, Sir, with regard to the other
.jaestion. Whether it be now a proper time
for us to enter into an enquiry? suppose
ve had just ground to suspect the upright-
ness or the wisdom of our late measures :
suppose them to be thoueht weak or wicked
bj a great majority of this House, is this a
V^ time for us to employ ourselves
alnmt enauiring Into and punishing past
measures? when Europe is in such dan-
ger: when we ourselves are in such dan-
ger, are we to consider only ^ow we came
upon the brink, instead of considering how
to get off? It was said of the House of
Commons that impeached the eari of Port-
laod and lord Somers m the year 1701,
wat they proceeded in a manner which
■femed more to affect our peace at home,
^ to prepare for war abroad. I am
*ffe, this might be more justly said of us,
would we now resolve upon an enquiry
®to the late conduct of our public anairs.
^ U8 now think how to get rid of the
[VOL. XII.]
pc«ae9t dftager, nsA of that ajoufi^ U de«
serves^ it requires our attention* .\Vhe.a
we have eecured oMar own liberties, and the
liberties pf Europe, agfpnft the aqibitious
projects of France : when we have secured
the freedom of our navigation and qom^
merce against the insults and inji:^tice of
Spain, we shall then have an opportunity,
we shall then have leisure, to enquire into
and punish all public offenders, a^d we
may then do it with safety. Both these
desirable ends we shall, I nope, attain, if
we apply to this, and this only : we may,
perhaps, be able to accomplish both before
the beginning of next session of parlia-
ment ; and surely no one will say, we can
suffer ui the mean time by the delay of
justice- For this reason, Sir, if I thought
we had just cause for an enquiry t if I con-
demned, in my own iuiad, the whde
course of our conduct for the last twen^
years, aa mudi as I do really approve it, I
should nevertheless be against our entering
into an enquiry during this session of par-
liaaaent ; and therefore I must give my ner
gative to the question.
Mr. WiUiam Pitt : '
Sir ; what the gentlemen of the other
side, mean by harangues or flowers of rhe-
toric, I shall not pretend to guess; but if
they make use. of nothing of that kiad, it
is no verygoofl argument for their since-
rity; for a man who speaks from his heart,
and is sincerely affected with the subject
he speaks on, 9s every honest man must
be when he speaks in the cause of his coun-
try : such a naan, I say, falls naturally into
sentiments and expressions which may be
called flowers of rhetoric, and therdToce
deserves as little to be taxed with aflfecta^
tion, as themost stupid serjeant at law that
ever spoke at the Common Pleas bar for«
half guinea fee. For my part, I have
heard nothing said in favour of die ques-
tion, but what 1 thought very proper and
very much to the purpose. What has been
said, indeed, upon the oth^ side of the
ouestion, especially the long justification
tnat has been made of our late measures,
I cannot think so proper upon this occa*
sion, because this motion is founded ui>Qn
the present melancholy situation of affiurs,
and upon the general clamour without
doors against the late conduct of our pub-
lic afiairs, and either of theSe, with me,
shall always be a sufficient reason for
agreeing to an immediate parliamentary
enquiry ; for without such an enquiry I
cannot, even in my own mind enter mte^
IM3
15 0E0«O9IL
AaiiMtM LariiAmiiklft Maim
m
tke 4^rfMab» iHKMbw oar MUlt
itms liE?6 06611 tigte Of nOy dccmmi 1
caonBot otherwise be fbrnuhed ^rith the
fieoeMfliry lights for thai |ittrpo8e4
But Utehon. gentlemcm nmo oopoie tbh
jMtkirii teem to tnhcike, I dual not uj
wilfbOy^ tfie dUfereiioe betweeo • motioo
i&r en impeeditnefiti and • motion f6r en
ea^iff. if iny member of tins Hooee
lirere to stand up in his pteee^ and more
Ibr impeaching a mraister» he would iNt
cMf gea to chttr^ Mm widi some particu-
lar crimes or misdemeanors, and to pro-
Suoe some proofs or to dedaie that ho was
ready to prove the flMSts : but any j^ntle-
fiian may move for an enquiry, without
hny particular aUegfltion, and without of-
fering any proof, or declaring thaa he is
ready to prove, beoanae the i^ery desten
of an enquiry is to find out joartleuMr
fiusts and particular {M'ooft. IWe gene-
hd dtcumstances of things* or general
tumours without doors, are • sunieht
fbundatibh ibr sndi a motion, and Ibr
tiie Hodse*s agreeing to it when it it
made. This, Sir, haS alwaya been the
practice, and has been the foundation
of almost ell the enquiries that were ever
net on foot in diis House, espec^ythose
that havb been carried on wf fieciut end
iielect committees. What other foonda-
lion was there for the sectet commineftap-
nointed in the year 16M, (to go no for-
iher back) to enqvdre into and insnect the
bodks end accounts ^ the East India com-
pany and dutmber of London* f Nodiing
but a geoend rumour that some eenrupt
^tiictloes had been made ose o£ What
Was the foundation of the enquiry in the
yottr 1715J* i bid the lion* gentleman
Who toovM foir appointing tfkat seoret
committee, chaige the foteser adminsitra-
tkmwith any particular crimes? Did he
oftr any prooA, or declwethat he 'was
liMdy 10 p^ve any thhig? It is said, tiie
tneastireti pursued by that admMstration
were condemned by e great nugority of
tbat House of CornmoM. What, £Rr, were
those ministers condemned before tli^
Were heard ? Could any gentleman be so
nnf ost as to pass sentence, even in his own
mind, open a measure^ before he had en-
Siii^ mto ft ? He m%ht perhaps diriJke
e treaty of Ut^dit ; but upon enquiry,
it might af/pear to be the best that could
be ema&n^; and it has sincebeen so for
justified, that it is at least as good, if liot
n- ■ - - ■ - - 1^1 - I 'i
• See Vol. 6, p. 881.
tSseVsLT,p.a5.
bmedr tfaai/«oy tm^ wokefu dmde daes
ihatttaMk
8ir« it was not Ike tradly of Utredit)
nor any maasure thai administration bui
openly pursued^ that was the foondatioa
or the cause of in cnqidry sato tiKor oon-
duct. It was the loud coooplaints of t
great patty m the naiion afunst tbem,
and the geoOral suspiGMm of their htrisg
carried on traasonable nagociayoas in ^
vour of the Pretender^ aaid for ddbanog
the Froleptant succession; and the so-
Miry was set on foot, in order to detect
mose praotioesy if there were any sodi,
and to find ptiqier cvidenee fi>r cenrictiag
the oftndets. The aaan argunwnt holdi
with tegard tothe enquiry mto themsnage-
ment of the directeca of the South Set
company in Ae year l79Kk When dm
efiur was fiitt aroved in the House by
Mr. Neville*, he did not, he ootdd sot
Chaige thoae direeton, or any one of
them, with any paiticidlu'erimeB; nor did
he attempt to oftr, or aay that he wsb
ready to ofier any partioilar proofr: his
rien^ which was, Hast the diiecknssf
South Sea eompany should forthwith
Is^ before the House an Ateomt of dmr
iMKMseedfinga, waa fonnded iqpon the gene-
Md eireumstanoes of things, the distren
brought upon the public creidit of the ns-
tion^ and me general and loiidt»nnkmt8
without doors. This motion, mdeed, ics-
it waa, we know, waa oppoied
Mr our courtieni at that tiase^ and m psr*
tsndar, by two doc^ibty brothers, who
hsrre been courtiers ever afawse ; but duir
opposition raised such a wamnh in die
Iloun, that they were dad to gm itsp,
and never afterwards durst dmc^ ap-
pose that enqmry. I wish I oouid now
see tjieffanmaeal for public Justice^ Ism
euro the circumstances of alhirs deienw
it. Our public credit was then. Meed,
brou^ into distress; but now> the na-
tion Itself, nay, not only this nation, hut
all our friends upon the eontineDt, sre
brought into the most innninmA danger.
Tms^ Si^ is admitted even by dnae
who oppoee this motion, and if they hare
ever lately conversed wMi those thi^ dire
speak their minds, Ihey must admit, thst
the murmurs of die pec^ against the
conduct of the admmistradon are now as
general, and as loud, as ever tbey were
iqpon any occasion ; but the misfoitttoe
_ - " - II
* Far Mr. NerQIe's motion, wA the pro-
ceedings ioconieqaaDos lh«taf, Sas m n
p. 065,
185] M^Vmmiik$qfJnfibg.
4m amtmrn wriA nj bm mA m are
inoflotp er«f«ltobdia«ffioeb«oid«ich
WD^iiC thmdunk irihst diej will, wiU
ahraji 0ppfan4 the midael ef their ^iipe-
non; oonaefiifiitlyv gendaDEHn vbo ave
io die adiBiniilinliOD» or io aay eflke
mint it, AB midiy know what ia the
▼oice of the people. The yoke of this
Hook vas fomerly, I shall gnnt,. and
alwqrs ought to be the Toice of the peo«
pie: if new pariiaaeots were more ire*
^yaat, and fiew phcemep, and no pen-
BioaeN admitted, it wouldbe sestai; W,
if iseg paiUanients be continuad, and a
eofPipt niflnence should prevail, not only
at elecliflBS, hot in this House, ihe ^ce
efthisHsusewfll generally be Teiy ii£*
foKBt from, pay often disec^ .contrary
to the roice of ihe people. Hosnewer, as
thisisaet,! belie«e,thecMe at presast,
I hope, that there is a ■^erii^ of us who
loMMT whia IS ihe wiee of liie people;
•ad if it be adnkted by aU, that the na*
tioD IS at pnsani m the utmosl distrns
sad danger, iaodadnkted by a rasjenty,
that die feice of the people IS loBdagaiBBt
the late eondiaBft jd£ our administration,
this modsn must be agreed to, beoaufe
Ihsseshewn, thatJhesetwociiicinnstsnceB,
vidiout an^ parriwilar chaige, have been
the finadatieii of ahnost allparlianientBry
iofsirias.
I ihaB waday iHiniit, fiir, tfiat M should
hM'veiy little to do aath die ebaraeter
ff lepatetieB ^of a uuoislbr, ifitJioway
afeled hk aoaster; but as it does, and
livm most jftiflt our sonaraigo, as the
pe^SenBybeooma disafteted ai mU m
tebnlented, wbeo tbey find the kinp
cwitioaes obstinately to ^employ a nu-
Bater who, tiiey tmnk, oppreaMSL^tfaem
^ home^ and betnys them abroad, we
aoe ftsMfine in duty to our jovereign
ddjpsd to.en^piire int»tiie conduct 4£ a
lBiiuler,'i!iiMii itibeeomes fenenJly-sus*
Ptetsd bT 'the |pcenle; in order .that we
^ wcaoate his^coaraoter, ifhe^ppeass
^nooent, as to emtj thing laid to hk
^Bge, or that wejney ^ him-xemoaed
nan the connoils of our aoseragn, and
^•^digQly.pQiildied, ifiie^ipea».guil^.
A&rhmn^aaid thus muflli, 'Sir, Lhave
iM.inatooGasion to answer whatbas been
w, that >no|iailiamentary inquiry .ought
^tebe set up, uideas we nre convinced
wsonitthing IMS been done aBHSB. Sv,
aa leiy name given to this House of
'^"•laentsheaB .thcoentsary. We aae
c'ad <he dmsd ittoneatof the 4ii«K»,
A. P. m%
[486
andae iuoh it ii nuf diity to eniittirift into
Sfwry st^ of oublic maiuttenient, either
abroad or at noma, in ^er to see that
nothing has been doon amisf. It is n4|t
netoessary upon erery occaMoiii to establish
a secnet /committee : tfiis is never necee-
Svr, but when the a&irs to be brought
ore them, or some ^ jthose affiurs, err
supposed to be of such a nature as oueht
to be kept secret; but as experience haa
shewn, duit nothing but a s^i^erfidal en-
quiiyisevermadeby a general ponunjit-
tee, or aisommittee Ifi the whole Housa,
I wish, that all estimates and apcountfi,
and many other affiwa, wace ire^ctiyely
referred to select oooamittaeii Their en-
quides ^ould be more esMtiL^ 4U)d th^
recehdog of their reporta would iu»t t^
up so much of our time as is represented ;
4>nt if at did, as it is our duty to mako
atsiot jnouiries into «rery thing raLatiug to
>the public, as we aammble here for tbajt
IMumse, we ought to do our du^ bafoso
webreakup; andlamsure, his pre^eist
ma|esty would never put an end to anjr
aesaton, .till both Houses bad full/ pee-
fimned their duty to Uieir country.
It k said, by some«aillamai« that ^y
thttiaquiry we ahall be in danger of dia- .
covering the secrets of our government f»
oar enemies. This ai;guBseot, Sir, bv
proaing too nuich proves nothing at afl.
If k 'were admitted, it would alwaya have
been, and for enerwillbe, an armment
aoaiast our inquiring into any flISur in
vrtiioh.our government can besuf^oaed to
hinreaooncenu Our inauirieswmiU then
be confined to tiie oonduot of our little
w of inferior custom-house
or.esdsemen; lor if we should be
ao bold 4p to oier to inqoore mto the con-
duct of ooBMnisskmera or great companies,
it would be said, the government had a
49onoeni in their conduct, and the secrete
of goseaunent nuist net be divulged.
Every 9entlemeamu8taee,'that tfaia would
be Ae consequence of admitting such an
argument; bat besides, it is £dse m Saet,
and contrary to esperienoe. We have
had many .parliamentary inquiries into the
conduct ofministers of state, and yet I
defy any one to shew, that a^ state aflbir
was thereby discovered which ought to
have been concealed, ior that our public
affium, either abroad or at home, ever
sufiered by any sueh discovery. These
are methods. Sir, for preventing papers of
a very secret nature worn coining into thfS
hands of the servants attoidmg, or even
of ail the memben of oar secret conunittee.
4873
15 GEORGE U.
DebaU on Lord Limerid^s Motion
If his mftjeiity shoald by menage aoquaiiit
us that some of the papere seeued up and
laid before us required the utmostsecrecy,
we might refer them to our committee,
with an instruction for them to order only
two or three of the number to inspect
such papers, and to report from them no-
thing but what they thought might be
safely communicated to their whole num-
ber« By this method, I hope, the danger
tif a discovery would be effectually re-
moved ; therefore this danger cannot be
a good argument against a parliamentary
inquiry.
The other objection. Sir, is really surpris-
ing, because it is founded upon a circum-
stance which, in all former tunes, has been
admitted as a strong argument for an im-
medsi^ inquiry. The hon. gentlemen are
eo ingenuous as to confess, that our affidrs
both abroad and at home, are at present
in the utmost distress; but say they, you
oueht to free yourselves from this distress,
bemre you inquire how or by what means
you was brought into it. Sir, according
to this way of arguing, a minister that has
plundered and betrayed his country, and
rears being called to an account in parlia-
liament, has nothing to do but to involve
his country into a duigerous war, or some
other great distress, in order to prevent
an inquiry into his conduct, because he
may be dead before that war is at an end,
or that distress got over. Thus, 'like the
most villainous of all thieves, after he had
plundered the house, he has nothing to do
but to set it in a flame, that he may escape
in the confosion. It is really astonishing
to hear such an argument seriously urged
in this House. But, say these gentlemen,
if you found yourself upon a precipice,
would you stand to inqunre how you was
led there, before you considered how to
get off? . No, Sir: but if a guide had
led me there, I should very probably be
provoked to throw him over, before I
» thought of any thing else ; at least, I am
aure, I should not trust to the same guide
for bringing me off; and this. Sir, is the
strongest argument that can be ui^|;ed for
an immediate inquiry.
We have been for these twenty years
under the guidance, I may truly say, of
one man, ope single minister. We now at
last find ourselves upon a dangerous pre-
cipice : ought not we then immediately to
inquire, whether we have been led upon this
precipice by his ignorance or wickedness ?
and it bv either, to take care not to trust to
his guidance fiwleadiDg us off? Thisisan
[4S8
additional, and a»t«OBger«rgimMiitfortlui
inquiry tluin met was for any former; kt
if we do not inquure, we shall probablj
remain under his guiduice; because,
though he be removed from the Tressuiy
board, he is not from the king's closet,
nor probably will, unless it be by our ad-
vice, or by our sending him to a lodgmg
at the oaier end of the town, where
he cannot do so much harm to bis
country. Sir, the distress we are in at
home is evidently owing to bad oeconomj,
and to our having been led into many
needless expences: the distress and the
danger we are in abroad, are evidentiy
owing to the misconduct of our war with
Spain, and to the little confidence put in
our counsels by our natural and andent
allies. This is so evident, that I should
not have thought it necessanr to have
entered into any particular explanation, if
an hon. gendeman on the other side had
not entered into a particular justificatioa
of most of our late measures, both, abroad
and at home; but as he has done w,
though not, in my opinion, quite to the
furpose of the present debate, yet, I hope,
shall be excused making some remarks
upon what he has said, on that subject,
beginning, as he did, with the measures
taken for punishing the South-sea direc-
tors, and restoring public credit, i^er die
terrible shock it met with in the year 1720.
As those measures. Sir, were among the
first exploits of our late, and I fear still
our prime minister, at least his first since
he came last into the administcation; and
as the conunittee proposed^ if agreed to,
will probably consist of one and twen^, I
wish the motion had been for one year
farther back, that the number of yean
might have been equal to the number of
inquirers, and that it might have compre-
hended the first of those measures ; for as
it stands, it will not comprehend the me*
thods tflJcen for punishing the directors,
nor the first regulations made for restoring
public credit; and with regard to both,
some practices miffht peihaps be discos
vered, that would aeserve a much severer
punishment than any of those directors met
with. Considerinff the miiny tricks and
frauds iBBde use of by those directors and
tbpir agents, for drawing people into their
tmn, I am not a little surprised to hear it
now said, that their punishment was ever
thought too sarere. Justice by the lump
was an epithet giveait, not because it was
thought too severe, but because it was a
piece of cunning made use of for screeoing
Jbr a CommiUee qflnquity.
A. D; 174S.
[490
t^moit heinoas offienden, who, if diey
did not defleire to be hanped, deserved at
kast to have that total rum brought upon
ibem, which they had brought upon many
mthinking men, and therefore they very
ill deserved those allowances that were
made them by parliament.
Then, Sir, as to the restoring of public
credit, its speedy restoration was founded
Tipon the credit of the nation, and not
opoD thevMom or justice of the measures
taken to restore it. Was it a wise me-
thod to remit to the South Sea company
the whole seven millions, or thereabout,
whidi they had solemnly engaged to pav
to the pablic ? It might as well be saidft
thai a private man's giving away a great
part of his estate to those'&at no way de-
lenred it, would be a wise method for re-
viring or establishing his credit. If those
Kven miUions had been distributed among
the poorersort of anniiitants, it would have
heen both generous and charitable ; but to
pt it among the proprietors in general,
V8S neither generous nor just, because
noitofthem £nerved no favour from the
public: for as the proceedmgs of the di-
rectors were authorised by general courts,
those who were then the proprietors were
in some measure accessary to the frauds of
the directors, and therefore deserved to
hare been punished, rather Uian rewarded,
Ik thej really were; because everyone of
them who continued to hold stock in that
company got, by the regulations then
nade, near 50 per cent, added to his capi-
tal; most part of which arose from the hi^h
price the annuitants were by act of parlia-
aeotobl^ed io take stock at, and was
therefore a most flagrant piece of injustice
done to the annuitants, out we need not
he at a Ion for the true cause of this act of
iojostice, when we consider, that a certain
K^ntkniui had a great many friends among
<he old stockholders, and few or none
MDottg the annuitants.
Another act of injustice which, I believe,
ve may ascribe to the same caose,^ relates
to those who were engaged in heavy con-
t'scts for stock or sul^riptions, many of
*hoQi groan under the load to this very
^) ' for after we had by act of parliament
qoiteakered the nature, though not the
Batneofthe stock they had bought, and
iBideitmuch less valuable than it was
^ they engaged to pay a high price for
1^ I must think it was an act m public in-
J»^,to leave ihem liable to beprose-
c^ at bw fi>r the whole mone]^ they had
^^^gigedtepay ; and 1 iim8ure» it was not
a method for restoring private credft,^poft
which our trade and navigation very much
depend. If the same regulation had been
made with regard to- them, as was made
with regard to those who had borrowed
money of the company, or a sort of * Uti
possidetis' enacted, by declaring all such
contracts void, so far as related to any fu*
ture pajrments, it would not have been
unjust, and was ^tremely necessary for
quietm^ the minds of the people, for
Ereventing their ruining one another at
tw, and &r restoring credit between man
and man, which is so necessary in a
tradmg country; but there is reason to
suppose, that a certain gentleman had-
many friends among the sellers in those
contracts, and very few among thebnyers^
whidi was the reason why the latter
could obtain little or no relief or mercy by
any public law or regulation.
Then, Sir, with regard to the extraor-
dinary grants made to the Civil List, the
very reason giyen by the hon. gentlemen
for justi^ng those grants, is a -strong
reason for an immediate enquury. If
there have arisen any considerable charges
,upon that revenue, let us see what those
charges were; let us examine whether or
no Uiey were necessary. We have the
more reason to do this, because the reve-
nue settled upon his late majesty's- civil
list, was at least as great as was settled
either upoti kbg WUTiam or queen Anne,
and yet neither of them ever asked any
extraordinary grant, but, on the contrary,
the latter gave out of her civil list revenue
100,000/. yearly, towards the support of
the war ; and yet there was as great hospi-
tality in the royal palace during her time,
as there has been ever since. Besides,
there is a seneral rumour without doors,
that the civS list is now greatly in arrear,
which, if true, renders an enquiry ab-
solutely necessary; for it is inconsistent
with the honour and dignity of the crown
of these kingdoms to be in arrear to ita
tradesmen and servants; and it is the duty
of this House to take care, that the reve-
nue we have settled for supporting the '
honour and dignity of our crown, shall not
be squandered or misapplied. If former
parliaments have foiled in this respect,
they must be blamed, though they cannot
be punished ; but we ought now to atone
for their neglect, and we may punish those,
if they can be discovered, who were the
cause of it.
I come now in course to the Excise-
scheme, which the Jion* gentleman says.
ǤIJ
15 6B0UGE II.
Deitile 9» Lord Lmnielf* Motion
C«
Might to be fiirgmn, beorase it was easily
Men up. Sir, it was not eaiily gireo up.
The promoter of that scfaeme did not
•atily give it up ; he gare it up with jorr
taWf with tears in hie eyesy when he eaw;
ad tiot lili he saw it imposaihle to earry
it through the House. Did ndt his ma-
jority ^crease eveiy division? It was
ahnost certain, that if he had paehed it
any farther, the nudity would have
turned against him K His sorrow shewed
his disappointment ; and his disappoint-
flMnt newed that Ins design was hig^r
than of peeveaftiag frauds in the costooas*
He was at that time so sensible of the in^
fiaenoe of e|(cise4aws and excbemen with
regard to elections, and of the great ocoa*
aion he would have for that sort of influx
e&de at the neat i^eneral electioa, which
was then approaching, that it is impossible
to suppose, he had net that influence in
view ; andif he had, it was a most wicked
attempt iiaainBt our constitution ; there-
fiwe ne deserved the treatment lie met
with from the people. Perimps there was
none bat what gentlemen are pleased to
call Mob, conomed in bonung hhn in
tSgr; but as the mob consists chieHy of
children, journeymen and servants, who
speak the sentiments of thehr parents and
BMBters, we may tbenee judge of the sen-
timeats of the better sort of people.
The hon. gentleman said, these wiere all
the measurai of a domestic natuve, that
caald be found fault with, because none
other were mentioned in this debate. ^,
hei has^ already heard a reason why no
aihar wrong measures «houM be partico-
lariy mentioned in iStim debate: if it were
BBcassaiy, many otiMrs might be men-
tioaad. Is net the keeping «p of so nu-
merous an anny in time of peace to be
fiwnd fault with ? Is not the fitting out
so many expensive squadrons for no pur-
pose, to be found fhult with j Are not the
anoraaehmeatB made upon the sinldng
fiind, the revivinff tbeaftlt duty, the re-
jecting laaay wetul -bflls and motions in
parlnmeat, and many other domestic raea-
suBe8,tobefoundfaidtwitii? The weak-
ness or wiehedneskof those aoeasures has
been often demonstrated, their ffl «!snse-
fiences were at the respective tioMs fore-
Md, and thoae consequences are now foe-
eoue visible by<mr present distress.
Now, Sir, with regard to the foreign
• The majority in favour of the
Scheme wm 61 npen (he first division : ^n the
l8stonly4?. »(iseVal,9, p. i.
ipflteures, which tbo'hoa. gandeaaab
attempt to jiMtfr* The treaty sf j
noverdeserves indeed to be first meniiam
beoaaae from thence apnings the d«M|
which Europe is now escpoaad to; m^
is impossible coaangn a reason Sarcmti
tering into that trealv,^ without aap|^
that we then resolved to be rerengdl|
the emperor for refusing to grant uit^i
finrour m Germany. It is in vain bom
insist upon the secret engngMMttta esli
into by the courts of Vienna and Msi
as the cause of that treaty. TSmj
fuilv shewn, that there never werti
suchen^gements; and his late majflg
speech from the throne cannot hew
admitted as any evidence of the k
Every one knows that in paritaaaeirt,^
king's speech is alwaya caasidecadaM
speech of the minister; and aurely af
nister is not to be allowed to ftsiDy
own ^peech as an evidence afm Act i|
own justification. If it be prateadsdd
his late mijesty had soaoe sort of jafina
tion, that such engagements had beani
tared into^ that very pretsnoe fuimAsi
uaaaswernUe argument for an enqd|
for M the infoimation now appears to hi
been groundless, we ought to enqpureil
it, because, if it appean to be aucfa aal
fcrmadoB as oujB^ht not to hana basal
lieved, that minister ought to be penii
who'adviaed his late inajes^ to gnre cm
to it, and to run ihe nation into soch (i
nidous measures in conaequenoe of it '
At the time this treaty wasemered is^
we wanted nothing from the eanMKorinpj
our own aeooont The nbahaning ofij
Qslead eomnai^<a«8 a demand we hsi^
right to nnuce, nor spece we in^ iatci^
BNich obliged to insist upon it, bacail
that company wocdd have been morefi
judicial to the interest, both of the Frsil
and Dutch East^Iadia trade, thantoaat
andif it had been a point that oonoeni
us much, we might ncebabiyhaia gsmi
it, by aocedthg to l£e Vienna treaty b
tweea the empeeor and Spain, or by ga
ranteeing the pragmatic saastioa,aHM
we afterwards did in the
noMmer withont any conaUesatioa at a
We wanted nothing firam fipain but a d
parture fmn the presence Aehadjosth
pun, or, I believe, haidly began to aet i
m an express manner^ wSi regatd I
seandii^g and aeiaing our ship in ll
American aeas; and this we dtdaatol
tam, orpcibaps did natdenreto
by the tneaty of Seville. Sytfcstt
lee obtained wtbing, bsit we <
Ifer ilep toMrids krii^g on that da>r
ffluch Bnrope im Mv kivohred iii« by
mitiiig thft eourti of Fftnos md Spaiiiy
nd li7iiiff«fiiiiiidati<Mi for a new bleach
between ne oourtB of Spno and Vienna.
I naU gianiy %r^ our nuiiolen appear
lahnrt been food and diligent enough in
MSfciiting, and wriftinK let^Ti and nuiao-
laktodie coort of Spain; but by all I
ktre looked ialOi it appean, thejr never
qghtly eadenlood^ or pedbapa woold not
amnad the point they were negootat-
iogiboBti and ai they aufcfed thpMirrivee
tobeimaedy as they Mr^ with fairpn-
iimm,iat ten jean together, whOrt in the
men time owr merchants were plondMsd,
aid sor tiade intemipted, we ought to
OMjuiie into diia afiiir; for if it should
ippnr»that tbqr allowed theaMelvesto be
annedwidiauch answers, as no man of
n soc^ cjpconwtanoes would have
or any man of dommon sense been
wUb, they must have had sook
'or allowing thenu^lv^ to
be thus imposed upon; tms secret motive
vemqr perhaps discover hy an enquiry,
ttd as it must oe a wicked one, if it can
be discovered, diey oog^t to be severdty
Jot a CmiMditte ^Infmi^^ A, D* 1742. [40*
oondttct in tliis war. The only branch of
it we have enquired into, we have ab^eady
ceiuMired and condemned: is not this a
good reason for eajquiring into every other
ranch? Disanpointvient and ill suocem
have always, till now, occasioned a narlia-
mentary enquiry. Inactivity of itself is. a
aaSoieai cause for an enquiry. We have
now ail these reasons concurrmg. Our
adflsinds abroad dssire nethmg more; be-
cause they are conscious that our inac-
tivity and ill success would appear not to
be owinfr to their oonduct, but to the con-
duct of ttiose that aentthem out.
1 cannot conclude^ Sir, without takii^
notioe of the two oth«r forejign measures
aMntioned by the hon. gentiemao. Our
oonduot in the year 1784, with regard lo
the war between the emperor and France^
BM^ be ^asfly aocounled for, though net
easily excused. Ever since the last ac-
cessum^of onr late minister to power, we
seem to have had a spite against the house
of Attstria. Our guaranty of the prag-
I was an effect of that spite;
we entered into it, when, as has
since appeared, we had no mind to per*
form our engagement; and by that sham
pmranty got the en^>eror to admit o^the
itttroductien of the Spanish troeps into
Italy, which he would siot otherwise hate
donie. The pieparations we made in that
yesr, the armieB we raised, and the flnsts
we fitted out, were not to gnard agsmst
the event of die war abroM, hut a
the event of the ensuing electicn at
The tiew commissions, ^e pnnnt
and the men^ laid est on these pespesa-
tions, were of exodlent ase at thetime of
a general election, and in some meoMue
atoned for the less of the Esctse Sdbeme;
bat !F^aace and her allies were well eon«
vinced, that we would, in no event, de-
clare against them, otherwise they woirid
not have dared to attack the emperor at
that time; for Musconr, Bolsno, Gcr*
many and Britain, would have been, hy
muon, mi over-match for them. It was
not onr preparatioos that ast bounds to
the anlution of Fhmoe, hot her getting
all rile wanted at that time for her^
sei^ and all she desired for her nlUes.
Her own prudence diM«led her^ thatit
was not then a proper time toposhher
views forther^ because she did not knosfy
but that 4fae spirit of this nation might get
the better, as it has since deneimh re-
gard to Spam, of tiie qnrit of onr adminis-
tration; and if this should Inwe happened,
ihe house xif Austaia ^wss 4hen in snchia
^ Bet, in excuse for their conduct) it
ii aid, our ministers had a laudable shy-
mh of bvolving their country in a war.
Sr, this shyness could not proceed from
tBT regard to their country : it was in-
rohred m a war : Spain was carryinj^ on a
nr against our trade, and that m the
BKKt insulting manner' too, during the
aUe time «f their neaooiations. It
negooiatio]
*ttveiyshyneM, or at least their making
theeontef €bain too sensible of it, that at
brt made it aneohitel v necemary for us to
kgia a war eh onr side. If they had at
htt insisled ptfspcrly and pepemptorily
spm an explicit answer, Spahi would have
ttpressly given up the pretence ehe had
^ set ap; but oy ^le long experience
wesilowed her, she found the fruits of
^ pntpnee so plentiful and, savotny,
^ me thought them worth riskmg a war
for; snd the damage we had snfered be-
tasie so ooosideraMe, that it was weith
csstendiBg for. SesideS) the court of
Spsm wm convinced, that whiht we were
nder sack an ndministmtion, nodmig
c;pald provokeus to hepn the war on our
*^; orifwe did, it would be managed
*tsUy er pasiUanimoosly^ and have we
Maooe found, that they formed a risht
J^^^ffBeat! Nf^ii^, Sir, ever demhnded
>°M • fSiSamentery ^mufi^ than our
485]
15 GEORGE II.
Debate on LordUmericPB 'Motion
conditiooythat our assistance, even though
*• late, would have been of effectual service.
I am surprised. Sir, to hear the hon.
gentleman nov say, that we gave up no-
thing, or got any thing by our infamous
Convention with Spain. Did we not ^ve
up the freedom of our trade and naviga-
tion, by submitting it to be regulated t>y
Senipotentiaries i Can freedom be rou-
ted without being confined, and conse-
quently in some part destroyed? Did not
'we give up Georgia, or some part of
' it, by submitting to have new limits set-
tled by plenipotentiaries? Did we not
give up all the reparation of honour we
had so just a title to insist on ? Did we
' not give up all r^mration of the damage
we had sufierea, amounting to 5 or
600,000^ for the paltry sum of ^,00M.
For this was all Spain promised to pay,
afler deducting die 68,000^. which we,
by the declaration annexed to that treaty,
alleged her to insist on having from our
^ South Sea Company, under the penalty of
: atrmping them of the Assiento contract,
• and all the pritileees they were thereby
> intitied to. Even Uiis sum of 27,000^ or
more, they had before acknowledged to be
due, on account of ships they had allowed
to have been unjustly taken, and had ac-
tually sent orders for their restitution : so
that) by this infamous treaty, we got no-
thing, and gave up every thing ; and there-
fore, in my opinion, Uie honour of this
nation can never be retrieved, unless the
. advisers and authors of it be censured and
'punished, which cannot regularly be done
iritfaout a parliamentary enquiry.
By these, and the like wickeid, or weak
smd pusillanimous measures, we are be-
: eome the ridicule of everv court in Europe,
• and have lost the confidence of all our
ancient aUies : by these we have encou-
raged France to extend her ambitious
▼iews, and now at last to attempt carrying
them into execution. By baa (economy
and extravagance in our domestic mea-
sures, we have brought ourselves into such
distress at home, that we are almost ut-
terly incapable of entering into a war : by
• wetumess or wickedness in our foreign
measures, we have brought the a&irs of
Europe into such distress, that it b almost
imponible for us to avoid entering into a
war. By these means we have been
brooffht upon the dangerous precipice on
which we now find ourselves ; and shall we
trust our being led safely 'off to the same
^de that has led us on ? Sir, it is impos-
ttble fiir him to lead us off; it is impos-
siblefor us to, get ol^ widioot fitst rq
covering that confidence among oortq
cient alfies which this nation formfiriy \mi
to have : this we cannot do as loog J
they will suppose, that our oouueis m
influenced by tmr late* minister : sod th^
they will suppose, aslong ashehasaccni
to the king|s closet, and his past coBdati
remains uninquired into and uncensiud
It is not themsre a revenge for pastni
ferings but a desire to prevent future, tbi
makes me ao sanguine for this enqua)
His punisheoenty l£ it be never so sevevi
will be buta souill atonement to his cons
try for what is ^t ; but hia napiinitj vi|
be the souroe of many fiiture misexiesti
Europe, as well as to. his native oouna]
Let us be as merciful as we will, as a^
man can reasonably desire, when we coo
to pronounce sentence ; but sentence ^
must pronounce, and for this purpose «{
must enquire, unless we are resolved t
sacrifice our own liberties, and the libei
ties of Europe, to the preservation of qd
guilty man*
Tlie question being put upon lord Ll
merick's motion, it passed in the negatit
by 244 against 242.
Debate in the Commoks oir Lori
Limerick's Motion for appoimtikg 1
Committee to Enquire into the Coi
DUCT OF Affairs at Home an
Abroad during the last Twext
Years: From the Gentleman*s Magi
2iwc*.] Lord*Limer£cA' rose and said :
Sir ; as I am about to ofier to the Ho«
a motion of the highest importance to ^
honour and happiness of our country, i
the preservation of our privileges, u
thecontinuanceof our constitution, I mat
no doubt of a candid attention from th
assembly, and hope for such a deicnniru
tion as shall be &e result not of extemi
influence, but of real conviction.
I cannot but congratulate myself aod a
lovers of their country, that we are ai
rived at a time, in which such hopes xda
be rationally indulged, that we shall soc
see the triumpji of liber^, and the reD<
vation of parliamentary, freedom. It
not without tlie highest satisfaction, that
find my life protracted to ithat happy da;
in which the yoke of dependence has bc€
shaken off, and the shackles of oppressk
have been broken; in which truth an
justice have once more raised up the
* Compiled by Dr. Johasoa.
|97J
fir a Ccmmklee ^Jnqidiy.
A. D^ 1742.
ym
heads, and obtaiDed that regard, which
had ao long been paid to spl^did wicked-
nets and successful rapine.
The tinie is now past, in which it was
meritorioas to harden the heart against
pity, and the forehead against shame ; to
phmder the people by needless taxes, and
lanilt them by di^laying their spoils be^
fiire their eyes, in iuxurioos not, and
boondlesB maimificence ; when the cer-
tain method of obtaining what the greatest
}ttrt, even of good men, cannot but some-
times wish to acquire, interest, affluence,
and honour, was an imj^icit resignation to
audiarity, a desertion of all pnnciples, a
defiance of all censure, atad an open de-
cbration against any dther motives of ac-
tion, than ttie sole pleasure of an arbitrary
It is now, Sir, no longer considered as
an instance of disaffisction to the govern-
ment, to represent the miseries and dedare
the opinions of the people; to propose
their mterest as the great basis of govern-
ment, the general end of society, and the
parent of law. It is now no longer cri-'
JDinal to affirm, that they have a right to
complain when they are in their own opi-
^n injured, and to be heard when they
cwnpVun, It may now be with safety
asserted that those who swell with the
pride of office, and glitter with the magni-
Bceoce of a court, however they may dis-
pby their affluence, or boas$, their titles,
vith whatever contempt they may have
kamed of late to look upon their fellow-
subjects, who have no possessions but
yrimt they have obtained by their industvv,
acv any honours but what are voluntarily
paid to their understanding and tiheir vir*
toe; with whatever authority they may
&tate to their dependants, or whatever
nvetence they may exact from a lone
wbcrdination of hirelings, are, amidst Ji
tlw pomp and influence, only the^ser-
Tacts of tlie people, entrusted, by them
vith the administration of their affiurs,
and accountable to them for the abuse of
trast.
That trusts of the highest importutce
ittve been long abused, that the servants
^ die people, having long thought them-
idves oat of the reach of justice, and
above examination, have very ill discharg-
ed the offices in which they have been
ttgaged, that the public advantage has
Wm wholly disregarded, that treaties have
ken concluded without any rMard to the
otoest of Great Britain, and that our
f mgn and Demesne Affiiirs have been
[VOL.XU.]
maoagedwid^equal igndranoe, neg^^encOt
or wickedness; the present state of £u*
rope, and the calamities of this country,
will sufficiently inform us.
If we survey the condition of foreign
nations, we shall find, that the power and '
dominions of the House of Bourbon, a
House whidi has never had any other
designs than the extirpation of true reU*
eiooj mid the universal slavery of maakindy
have been daily encreased* We shall find
that they have enoreased by the declen«-
sionof the House of Austria, which trea-
ties and our interest engage us to sup*
port.
But had their acquisitions been made
only by the force of arms, had they grown
stronger only by victories, and more
wealthy only by plunder, our ministers
might, with some appearance of reason
have imputed their success to acGident»
and informed us, that we gained in the
mean time a sufficient counterbalance to
those advantages, by an uninterrupted com-
merce, and by the felicity of peace ; peace
which in every nation has been found to
produce affluence, and of which the wisest
niien have thou^t> that it coold scarcely
be too dearly purchased.
But peace has in this nation, by the
wondertul artifices of our ministers, heea
the parent of poverty and misery ; we have
been so &r from finding our commerce
extended by it, that we have enjoyed it
only by a contemptible patience of the
most open depredations, by a long con-
nivance at piracy, and by a continued
submission (o insults, which no other na-
tion would have borne.
We have been so fiir from seemg any
part of our taxes remitted, that we have
been loaded with more rigorous exactions
to support the expences of peace, than
were found necessary to defray the charges
of a war against those, whose opulence
and power nad incited than to aspire to
the dominion of the world.
How these taxes have been employed^
and why our trade has been neglected^
why our allies have been betrayed, and
why the ancient enemies of our country
have been suffered to grow powerful by
our connivances, it is now time to examine;
and therefore I move, *' That a Commit-
tee be appointed to enquire into the Con-
duct of Affiiirs at home and abroad during
the hut Twenty Years.''
Sir Jokn St, AuUn :
Sir, I rise up to second this motion;
«•]
15 GBORiGS IL
DtUte m Lord tmmrkVt itption
P»
«n^ iii'<die Mble lord taM<i|Mi«d it in io
Ml and proper ft inftnnery aadm 1 do nat
doiibt Imt thut «ther (gentlemen tore ready
to support it, more praotised in apeaking,
ef greater ftbilitiea and 'ftartiori^f , lihan
myself, I am the lets amrious abiout the
injury it may teoatve from %be partlliear
in it. I thmk the proposition is so evi-
dent, that it wants no enforoement; it
comes to yon from the voice of the na^
tion, Which, thank God, has at last found
admittance wiiliia these iratts.
* Innocence ^ of so dielicate a riatnfe,
that it cannot bearauapktion^ and there-
fore will desire enquiry ; because it will
always <bejaMtfied by it. Guilt, from iu
own conacioosness, will use subterfuges,
and fly to concealmedt; and the moi«
fighteous and authorimtl^ the enquiry,
the more it will be avoided; because
the greater will be the dread of punish-
ment.
In pi^hrate life, I am contented with
men's virtues ohly, without iMiriung for
<q>portunities of blame. In a public ch*-
ractery when national grievancescry aloud
lor enquiry and justice, it is our auty to
{)ur8ue all the footsteps of gtiUt ; and the
oud, the pathetic appeal of tnj consti-
tuents, is more forcibly persuasive than
any motive of private tenderness. This
Appeal is not the dambur of faction, ait-
lully raised to distilrb the operation of
government, ^violent for a while, and sbon
to be appeased. It is the complaint of
long and ^tient suflferings, a complaint
not to be silenced ; and which lUl endea-
vours to suppress it, would only make more
importunate and clamorous. It is th^
iblemn app^ of the whole people, of the
tthited bboy of our constituents, in *thSb
thne of national calamity, earnestly be-
aeeching you, in a legal parliamentury
way, to redress their grievances, to revive
your ancient right of en^ry, to explore
the most remote and hidden sources of
iniquity, to detect the bold authors of their
distress, that they may be made examples
of national justice.
It is to you they -aliped, the true, the
ffenuine representatives of the people.
Not Hke former parliamenfes, an instrument
of state, the property of a minister, pur-
chased by the missionaries of corttiption,
who have been dispersed thrdUgh the
kingdom, and fuhiisned With the public
money to invade air natural interest, by
poisoning the morals of the people. Upon
this' rotten foundation has been erected
a-towering ftbric of corruptiens^nieet
dai^jperotn ooospitftcy has bten earned oa
a^ost the ^m essence of «oar <flODrtita*
tion, a formidable aystsm of miniitcral
power 'has been fmrmad, fiillaciouify. as-
sunmig, under constitutioofli'appeaiflioei,
the name of legal govenunebt.
In ths system we have seen the serenl
oiibaa of administration, meanly letolnDg
themselves Wider the direction and con*
tfool 'of one man : while thissdiaDe im
pursued, the nation has been ingloriossly
fNHient of foreign indignities^; oar tnds
oas been most shamefully neglected, or
basely betrajfted; a war nmh an inqpotem
enemy, most ampty provided for, mnoc-
ceasfully carried on ; the faith of trestiei
broke; our natuial allies deserted, sod
weakened even by that powes, which v«
now dread for want of their assistsnoe.
It is not the baf« vemoval from office
that will satidy the nation, espedaUy if
such removal is dignified with the highest
marks of toyal favour. This only gives
mankind a reasonable fear, that bis ma*
jeity has rather condescended to the b*
portunities, than adopted the opinion of
nispeople. It is indeed a most grscioos
condescension, a very high mstance of hii
majesty's just intentions, to remove any of
hiis servants upon nationsl suspicioti ; but
it will give his majesty a most unikvoom-
ble Oninion of his people, if he is not latis*
fied that this suspicion was just. It is ths
unfortunate aituation of arbitrary kings,
that they know the sentiments of titeir
people only from whispeien in thar do-
lei. 'Ourmonarchy luKsecorerestsblish-
meniB. Our sovereign is always safe of
knowing the true sense of his people, be>
cause he ma^ see it through the proper,
the constitutional medkun : but then thk
mediummust.be pure, it must trvtfniit
evenr object in its real form and its na*
turaf colours. This is all that is now con*
tended ^r. You are called to the exer*
eiseof your just right of enquiry, that hii
majesty may see what reason there is for
this general inquietude.
This motion is of a general natare;
whom it may more particularly aiect, I
shall net determine. But there is s g^
person, httely at the head of tte admiiitf-
tration, who stands foremost, the principsl
object of national sus{»cion. He surely
will not idedine this enquiry, it is his omi
proposition, he has frequently in the name
of the whole administration thrown dovm
his gantlet here, has desired your en-
quiries, and has rested his &te onyeur
.justice. ThenationaceepUtbechiUeDge,
»i]
jAr a CommiU^ ^I^m^r
4. ». 1T«.
C50»
dK^ jri» iwii» witfi hiwt fhty i^ qow
dcsiiow tff.briiig this gieai c8u«q in judg-
Il BKisI be ioMted toi the fonip i^Aer*
nMkn of Ibis xigtkt of eD^uinr, tnot the
peoptekavenow this cause of oompliwt ;
M the adnjniitrQlum of this gt^ por-
Mo been 9iiha»tted to the constiltttioiial
e9ttoikf hed kis coadticft uadefgoae
ctridand frequent enquiries* he had parts
ttd abflitses t» hi«f e done great honowr
and service to tUe coautcy. Bui the will^
ueoaiNuled^ ^ ever nooist aoA wiU pro-
^vcewcqiiljr and waatonaess; nor can
makiation and despode poviiv suMst
% together.
lovaai do we admire the oudiaesofomr
coHtitution* in vain do we boast of those
viie aadialQlaiy lestrainta^ vhich oar an*
ootoRy at the expenee of their bleed and
treamie^ haire wisely imposed u)»on mo-
wcbj itss)(^ if il is to bea constitution in
theory only, if this erasiTe doctri<ie ia to
be«dinilted» that a feOow-subjeet of our
om^pethm of tbekwest rank among us>
vmf be delegated hy the crown to exer-
die the adsunislralion of gofemment,
vith shrahite* uncontronlfibfe dooAituMi
overus; whidi mmk be the case» if minis-
tcrnl c(Hid«cii»MtliaUe to parUamentarj
Mttriss,
ul didnel tUnklbis flpiotioA agreeable
to the niles and pyoceedings oS parbiwent»
if I thsqghl it was meant to introduce any
procednra whi<A was not strictly conse-
Ba&t to the lawa and constitution of my
oamtry, I do moH nokamfy pretest 1
vdqM be against iL
But as I apprehend il to arise from the
uluie and apnit of our cQnslit««tion> aa it
viildefeBd the mnoceot, and coA bedolri-
■eatal only to the guttty^ I do most
lautOy aeeond the motion^
Mr. Henry Pdham :
6iti if it was not daily to be ohaetved*
V* mueh the miada of the wisest and
noit moderate men are elated with sne-
ec«» aad oftan those, who have been able
teainnottnt the strai^pest obotaoles with
^earied dih'gence, and to preserve their
faititiido unsl^en amidst hourly disap-
pontmenU^ h^e been betrayed by sHg^t
t^tagss into indecent exultations^ ua-
^*ttoaaUe confidence* and chirpericat
^ec; had 1 not long remarked the iafa-
^«im of nfosperity, and the pride of
^!">i*ph, I wiottid net have heard the moh
^ vhioh has heon now made without
It has been k^ig the bwoesi or the
affsusement of the gentlemen^ who» having^
for some time owferred upon tbemselvea
the venerable titles of paiti:iots» advocate^
£br the people^ a^d defenders, of the con-
stitutipni have at length persuaded part o(
the nation to dignify them witli the same
appellationy to display in the s^ost pathetic
language,, and aggravate will^ the most
hyp^bolicat exaggerations^ the wanton-*-
ness with which the late miaiatry exern
cised their powei^ the exorbitanee of theiv
dem^p^ and the violence o|^ their mei^
suces^ They have indulged their w^
natio^Si, which have always been sulti
ciently firuitftil in satire and invective, by
reprefenting them as men in whom all re*,
gsud to decency or reputation was exttn*
gui^^ men who no V>nge< submitted to
wesf the saask of hypocrisy, or thought
the esteem of m^M^kind worth their care ;
who had ceased to profess any regs^ to
the weUare of their country, or any desira
of advancing the public himpiness ; and
who no longer desired any otaerefibots of
their power, than the secuntv of the»s«
selves ^and the conquest of their oppo-
nents.
Such, Sir, has beei^ the character of
the ministry, which, hy the incessant
endeavours of these cfointerested patriots»
has been carried to the remotest corners
of the kingdom, aad dUssemmted through
all the degrees of the people. Every ma%
whom they could enlist among their
pupilsb whom they could persuade to see
with Uieir eye% rather than bis own, and
who was not so stubborn as to require
proofs of their assertions^ and reaaona
of their conduct; every man who, having
no ventiments of his own, hoped to be*
come important by echoing those of his
instructors, was taught to tmnk and to say,
that the court waa filled with open cot^
ruption ; that the greatest and the wiaeat
men of Ae kingdom set themselves pub-
licly to sale, and held an open traffic Iqr
votes! and peaces; that whoever engaged
in the party of the minister, declared hun-
self ready to support his cause against
truth, and reason, and conviction, and was
no longer under the restraint of shame cir
virtue*
These assertions, hardy as they were,
they endeavoured to support by instances of
measures, which th0y described as having
no other tendency, than to advance ^
court to absolute authority, to enslave the
nation^ or to betray it t end more happily
would they have i^opagated their sy^teeif
SBSJ
15 GEORGE n.
Debaie on Lord Limerid^ Motion
[50t
and much soonetr woald they h87e obtmned
a general declaration of the people in their
fiivour, had they been able to have pro-
duced a moticm like this.
Should the influence of these men en-
crease, should they grow secure in the
possession of their power, by any new me-
thods of deluding the people, what won-
derful expedients, what unheard-of me-
thods of gOTemment may not be expected
from them ? What degrees of violence
may they not be supposed to practise,
who have flushed theur new authority by
a motion which was never projected since
the first existence of our government, or
offered by the most arbitrary minister in
all the confidence of an established ma-
jority.
It may perhaps be imagined b^ many of
those who are unacquainted with parlia-
mentary affiiirs, as many of the members
cvfthis House may wiUiout any reproach
be supposed to be, that 1 have miule use
of those arts against the patriots which
they have so long practised against the
court ; that I have exaggerated the enor-
mity of the motion by unjust comparisons,
or rhetorical flights; ana that there will
be neither danger nor inconvenience in
complying with it to any but those who
have betrayed their trust, or neglected
their duty.
I doubt not, but many of those with
whom this motion has been concerted,
have approved it without seeine all its
consequences; and have been betrayed
" into that approbation by a laudid)le ^eal
for their country, and a honest indignation
apainst corruption and treachery, by a
virtuous desire of detecting wickedness,
and of securing our constitution from any
future dangers or attacks.
For the sake, therefore, of these gen-
tlemen, whom I cannot but suppose
willing to follow the dictates of their own
consciences, and to act upon just motives,
I shall endeavour to lay open the nature of
this extraordinary motion, and doubt not
but that when they find it, as it will un-
^estionably appear, unreasonable in it-
self, and dangerous to posterity, they will
change their opinion for the same reasons
as they embraced it, and prefer the hap-
piness of their countiy to the prosperity of
Jheir party.
Aagainst an enquiry into the conduct
cf all foreign and domestic afiairs far
twenty jears past, it is no weak argument
tliat it IS without precedent ; that neither
the z^al of patriotjmy npr the rage cf fac-
tion, ever produced suich a motion in any
former age. It cannot be doidyted bj
those wl^ have read our histories, that
formerly our countiy has produced men
equally desirous of detecting wickedness,
and securing liberty, with £oae who are
now congr^ulating ^eir constituents on
the success of their labours; and that
faction has swelled in former times to a
height, at which it may reasonsbly be
ho^d it will never arrive again, is too
evident to be controverted.
What, then, can we suppose was the
reason, that neither indignation, nor in-
tegrity, nor resentment, ever before di-
rected a motion like this ? Was it not, be-
cause it neither will serve the purposes of
honesty, nor wickedness ; that it wodd
have defeated the designs of good, and
betrayed those of bad men ; that it would
have given patriotism an appearance of
faction, rather than have v^ted &ctioa
with the disguise of patriotism?
It cannot be supposed, that the saga-
city of these gentlemen, however great,
has enabled them to discover a method of
proceeding which escaped the penetra-
tion of our ancestors, so long celebrated
for the strength of their understanding,
and the extent of their knowledge. For it
is evident, that without any uncooomon
effort of the intellectual Acuities, he that
proposes an enquiry for a year past, might
have made the same proposal with regard
to a longer time ; and it is therefore pro-
bable, that the limitation of the term is the
effect of his knowledge, rather than of hii
ignorance.
And, indeed, the absurdly of an uni-
versal enquiry for 20 years past is sueh,
that no man whose station has given him
-opportunities of being acquainted with
public business, could have proposed it,
nad he not been misled by the veheinence
of resentment, or biassed by the secret
operation of some motives diffisrent from
public good'; for it is no less than a pro-
posal for an attempt impossible to be exe-
cuted, and of which the execution, if it
could be efiected, would be detrimental to
the public.
Were our nation. Sir, like some of the
inland kingdoms of the contment, or the
barbarous empire of Japan, without com-
merce, without alliances, without taxes,
and without competition with other na-
tions ; did we depend only en the product
of our own soil to support us, and the
strength of our own arms to defend
us, without any intercoune with dis«
MS]
fit a Commiitee ^Inquirg*
A. D. 1748.
[500
tint empiresy or any solicitiide about fo-
reigo arain, were the aame measures uni-
hmlj porroed, the government supported
by the same revenues, and administered
with the same views, it might not be im-
piacticable to examine the conduct of af-
fiun, both foreign and domestic, for 20
yean; because every year would affi>rd
only a tnnicript of the accounts of the
last
But how different is the state of Great
Britain, a nation whose traffic is extended
o?er the earth, whose revenues are evei^
yetrdBfereut, or differently applied, which
IS dafly enga^ng in new treaties of alii-
SDce, or fonnmg new regulations of trade
vith almost every nation, however dis-
tant, which has undertaken the arduous
and intricate employments of superintend-
ing the interests cf all forei^ empires,
ai^ maintaining the equipoise or the
Eoropean powers, which receives ambos-
ndore from all the neighbouring princes,
and extends its regard to the limits of the
world 1
In such a nation, every year produces
oegodatioDs of peace, or preparaticms for
var, new sdiemes and difierent measures,
by which expences are sometimes en-
creaaed, and sometimes retrenched. In
toch a nation, every thing is in a state of
perpetual vicissituae; because its mea-
lurea are seldom the effects of choice, but
of necessity, arising from the change of
oondact in o^er powers.
Nor is the mutdpticity and intricacy of
eor Domestic Affairs less remarkable or
particnkr. It is too well known that our
<idta are great, and our taxes numerous ;
that oor funds, appropriated to particular
purposes, are at some times deficient, and
at others redundant; and that therefore
^ money arising from the same imposts,
ii difisrently applied in different years/
To aaaert that this fluctuation proiduces
intricacy, may be imagined a. censure of
thoie to whose care our accounts are com-
miued ; but surely it must be owned, that
our accounts are made necessarily less uni-
form and regular, and such as must re-
hire a longer time for a complete exa-
Buoation.
Whoever shall set his foot in our offices,
iBd observe the number of papers with
viuch the transactions of the last twenty
years have filled' them, will not need any
vgomeota against this motion. When he
Mo the number of writings which such an
cnpiry will make necessary to be pe-
nned, compared, and extracted| the ac-
counts which must 1)e examined and op*
posed to others, the intelliffence from ro*
reiffn courts which must be cousideredy
ana the estimates of domestic expences
which must be discussed; he will own,
that whoever is doomed to the task of tl^
enquiry, would be happy in exchanging
his condition with that of the miners of
America, and that the most resolute in-
dustry, however excited by ambition, or
animated by patriotism, must sink under
the weight of endless labour. f
If it be ccmsidered how many are em-
ployed in the public offices, it must be
confessed either that the national treasure
is squandered in salaries upon men who
have no emj^oyment, or that 90 years
may be reasonably supposed to produce
more papers than a committee can exa^
mine ; and, indeed, if the committee of en*
quiry be not more numerous than has ever
been appointed, it may be asserted, with-
out exaggeration, that the enquiry into
our affiiirs for 20 years past, wm not be
accurately performed in less than 20 years
to come ; in which time those whoae con-
duct is now supposed to have given the
chief occasion to this motion, noay be ex-
pected to be removed for ever from the
malice of calumny, and the rage of perse-
cution.
But if it should be imagmed by those
who, having never been engaged in public
affiurs, cannot properly judge of their in-
tricacy atad extent, that such an enquiry
is in reality so far firom bemg. impossible,
that it is only the work of a few months,
and that the labour of it wiU be amply re-
compensed by the discoveries which it
will produce, let them but so Ipn^ sus-
pend the gratification of their curiosity,^ as
to consider the nature of that demand by
which they are about to satisfy it ; a de-
mand by which nothing less is required
than that all the secrets of our govern*
ment should be made public.
It is known in general to every man,
whose employment or amusement ithaa
been to consider the state of the French
kingdoms, that the hist 20 years have been
a time not of war, but of n^ociations;
a period crowded with projects, and ma^
chinations often more dangerous than vio-
lence and invasions ; and that these pro-
jects have been counteracted by opposite
schemes, that treaties have been defeated
by treaties, and one alliance overbalanced
by another.
Such a train of transactions, in whidi
ahnoat every oourt of Fraooe has be^ en*
aorj
15 GEOOGEll.
Deigia M £>n^ LimwioVs Motion
Csoar
gaoed, HinstlMr* giitem oecamii to muBY
pn^ale eonlwenceBy and secret ncgoeiA-
tiiHw; vmay designs most have been dsn-
C0¥efed by inletinersi yth^ gare thek iee
telUgence at the haxaid ef tbeir Itres^ and
besB defieated sosietiaHM by secret stimt^
latioius and sometimes by a jiidicions Qi»-
tnbutioa of money t0 those wbo presided
in parlianetit ev in oouncti.
Every man must immedialely bfi'can-
visiGed, that .by dieeoqutryDow propiosedy
all these secrete will be brought to lighl ;
thai one priace will be inienned of the
tieacbery of bia servants^ and another see
bis own cowardice or veaality exposed to
AeworU. It ia pkin, tbat the diamiela
of inlelligenee will be for ever stopped,
aod that no prince uriO ever enter intn
private tr eatiea with a manarch wbo is de-
nied by the constitotion of his fcipgdem»
tiw privilege of concealing bis own mea-
anrea. . It is evident^ that our enemiea
May hereafter plotoitr luin in fijUseeo-
rity» and that our aHies will no longer
; us with confidence.
Since^ ^eieAirey the cnqaiiy warn do-
nded is impossible^ the motion oosfal
to be re^eciea ; as it can have no otner
tanden^ than to expose pariiaaient and
the nation to ridicwe ; and sinoe^ If it
could be performed^ it would produce
eonaeoiiences fatal to our govemmenty as
it woiud expose our most secret measures
to our enemies* and woiken the confix
dence of our aUiefi* I hope every man who
regards eitber bis own reputation, or that
of parliament^ or nrofesses any solicitude
lor the public gooa, will i^ose the mo»
tion*
Lord Qjuarendon :
Sir ; I am always mdined to suspect
n man who endeavours rather to terrify
timn persuade. Exaggerations and by*
perboles are seldom made use of by him
who has any real arguments to produce.
The reasonableness of this motion, (of
wbidi I was conrinced when I first heard
it, and of wbidi, I believe, no man can
doubt who is not aftnid of the en^juiry
proposed by it,) is now in my opmion
evinced by the weak opposition which has
been made by the bon. geiideman, to whose
abilities I cannot deny this attestation, that
the cause which he cannot defend, has
tory little to hope from any odier ad-
tocate.
And surely he cannot, even by those
vrfao, whenever he speaks, stand prepared
to api^aud ban, be thongbt to have pro*
dnced any fimMlable argwnesA
the euqutry,. who has advanced little
more than tfaust il ia inpoasibk. la bo per«
formed.
Imp08s3)tlity is a formidable aouod to
Ignorance and cowardice ; but expcvienDO
has often discovered, that it ia onljr n
sound uttered by those who bare nodlung
else to say; and courage seadtly tur*
mounts those obstacles that sink the lazy
and timorous into despair.
That there artf indeed, iamaaibilitiea
in natuse, cannot be dooied» Thoce may
be sdiemes formed which no viae nomn
witt attempt to execute^ because be will
know tbat they cannot succeed ; bitt aure-
ly the examination of arithmetieal deduc-
tions, or dM conaideration of ttenties and
coBfevences> cannot be admitted into Uie
number of impossible dasigna; nnlees,
as it may sometimes happen, the treatien
and cakidations are unintelligible.
The only dittctdty thai CS0 arioe, musi
be produced by the confusioa and per*
plexity of our public transactions, tbe to*
consistency of o«r treaties^ and the ^-
lacaousnesa of our estimates ; but I hope
no mmi wiB mge these ar argnmenta
against the motioa. An enquiry ought
to be promoted, tbat eonfiuion may be
reduced to order, and that tbe distribu-
tion of ^e puUic money may be regulate
ed. If the examination be dilBaut, it
ought to be speedily performed, because
those difficulties are daily increaaing; if
it be tnqMN^flble, it ou^t to be attempted,
tbat those methods of Torming catenlatiens
may be changed, wliioh make them ibbk
pott3>le to be examined.
Mr. Henrjf Fox .*
Sir; to treat with contempt Aoae aDrgn^
nients which cannot readily be WMwered^
is the common practice of disputaata ; bat
as it is contrary to tlnit candour and in«
geauity whicb is inseparable from seal for
justice and love of truths it always raises
a sunncion of private viewa, and of deskfns,
whicik however they may be concesded by
specious appearances^ mi vehement pro*
fessions of integrity and sincerity, teed in
reality to the promotion of some secret
interest, or the gratification of some dar-
ling passion. It is reasonable to imagines
that ne who, in the examination of piMie
questions, calls in the assistance of artifice
wd sophistry, is actuated radier by tbe
rage oS persecution^ than the ardour of
patriotism ; that be is pttrsuii^ an enemy,
rather than delectipg a criminal i and that
Jbr n Ctmmktee tfhuqnirg.
te decUw agftinat ikt olrate of power
ia another, (mly that be may more easily
obuin it ksoaelf.
lo parlianeotary debates, I have often
bovn this method of eaay confotation
practised, eemetimea with more sucoeas,
and sometimes with less* I have often
boTD ridicole of use, when reason has
been baiBed, and seen those aSecit to de-
mise their opponenas, who have been able
to produce nothing ngainst them but art-
fiilallusioBB to.paatddbates, satirical in-
anoatioDa of dependence, or hardy mmei*
toM unaopported by iproofr. By theae
arts I have known the young and unexpe*
rienoed kept in su^enoe.; I have seen the
caiuioua and diffident taught to doubt of
the plaineat truths ; and the bdd and san-
guine persuaded to join in the cry, nnd
hunt down treason after the wgample ;of
their leaders.
But a bolder attempt to disarm argu**
BKnt of its fon^vandto perplex the un«
dettanding, haaiiot>often beenmade, than
this which I am now endeavouring to op-
poK. A modon has been made and se-
conded for an enquiry, to which it is ob-
jected, not that it is me^, notihat it is
iacoofenicnt, not that it is unnecessary,
but that it is impossible. An ohj<»ction
nwre fbrnndaUe cannot, in my epmion,
enlj be made ; nor can it be imagined
Ihat thoK 'men would tlunk any other
vorthy of an attentive examination, who
can pan over this as below their rqjard ;
Ceten this has ^produced no .answer,
cootamptuoiis rullery, and violent- eoc-
damation.
)Vhat aiguraents these gentlemen re-
C it is not' easy toi conjecture; orhow
who disapprove their measures, may
with any hope of success dispute against
them. Those impetuous spirits that break
M easily througli the bars of impossibility,
viD scarcely suffer their career to be stop-
cd by anv other restraint ; and it mcy be
l^mabfy feared, that arguments nrom
putice, or law, or policy, will have little
^00 upon. these danng minds, who in the
tnnsporta of their newly acquired victory,
^naple imposaibiKty under their feet, and
Bugiae, tiMit to theae who have vanquiah-
d the ministry, evef3rthii^ ia practicable.
That this enquiry would be the work
<f jeara; that it would employ greater
BUBibem-than were ever deputed by this
}^<Mae on such en oecasion before ; that
^ would deprive the nation of the counsels
ofthewiaest and- most experienced mem-
mh of this Htnaei (for such only ot^t
JL a rta.
[«!•
to be chosen,) at a time when all Europe
is m arais^ when our allies ere threatened
not oidy with, subjeDtion« but anmhilation;
when tlie French are reviving tlieir an*
Gient:schemes,and projecting the conquest
of the continent; and thatit would therefosa
interrupt our attention to more important
affiurs, and disable us from rescuing our
oon&deiates, is inoontestably evident; nor
can the wisest or the most ^^perienoed
determine how ftr its consequences ibajr
extend, or inform us, whether it may not
expose our commerce to be destroyed J>y
the Spaniards, and the liberties of aU the
nations around us to be infringed by the
Erench^ whether it miay not terminate in
the loss of our independence, and the de*
struction of our religion.
Sudh are the efieots which .magr he ex*
pectedftom an attempt to make the in-
quirer proposed; effiscts, to which no pro*
portionate advantages can be expected
from it, ahace it has been already shown,
that it can never be completed; and ta
whioh, though the inde&tigabhsi.induatiw
of cuiiosity or malice should at kagth
breakthrough all obstades, and lay all the
transactions of twenty years open to the
world, :no disdiyveries'would be e^valent^
That any real discoveries of misconduct
would be made,:that the inteoostofaur
country wouldbefound ever to. have faaea
hiaily neglected, or treadtaroasly ibetmy*
ed, Uiat any of our rights hove been eidier
yielded by cowardice, or sold by avarice,
at that our anemies have gatnea any ad-
vantage over us b^ tho'connivanoe or 'ig-
norance of our ministeaa, I am indeed vmtj
&r from believing: bnt as I am nowan*
deaivooring to convince those of the ira*
propiiety of this nmtion, who i have Jong
dedared themselves of a different opinion^
it may not be improper to ask, what .ad*
vantage they propose by detecting errors
of twentjr years, which are now irretriev-
able; of enquiring into fraudulent* prac-
tices, of ' whieh the audiors andthe^^genla
are now probably in their graves; and
exposing measures, of which aU the ia*
conveniences have been already feU, and
which have now ceased to affect as.
If it be wise to neglect aur present in-
terest for the sake of enquiring into past
misaarriaf^ei, and the enqaisv^aow pra-
posed be m itself possible, •! nave no ob-
jections to the present motion; butas >I
think the confused state of Europe de-
mands our utmost attention, and the pro-
secution of the war against Spain is in it-
511] iS'GEORCen. IMiUeanLordLimericVsMoAm
[5M
ninationof all past transactkns, I cimiiot
but think, that the duty which I owe to
my countey requires that I should declare
myself unwilling to concur in any pro^
posal, that may unnecessarily dirert our
thoughts or distract our counsels-
Lord Perceval :
Sir ; to discourage good designs by re>
presentations of the danger of attempting,
and the difficulty of executing them, has
^een at all times the practice of those
whose interest has been threatened by
them. A pirate, never fails to mtimidate
his pursuers by exaggerating the number
and resolution of his crew, the strength of
his vessels, and the security of his retreats.
A cheat discourages a prosecuttoa by
dwdling upon his Imowledge of all the arts
end subterfuges of the law, the steadiness
of his witnesses, and the experience of his
agents.
To raise false terrors by artful appear-
smcesis part of the art of war, nor can the
ceneral be denied praise, who, by an artful
disposition of a small bodv, duscourages
those enemies from attacking him by
whom he would certainly He overcome ;
but then, surely, the appearance ought to
.be such as may reasonably be expected to
' deceive ; for a stratagem too gross only pro-
duces contempt and confidence, and adds
the vexation of being ridiculous to the ca-
lamity of beine defeated.
Whether this will be the fate of the ad-
vocates £Dr the ministry, I am not able to
determine; but surely they have for^t
the resolution with which their enemies
bore up for many years against their su-
periority, and the conduct by which at
last they defeated the united influence of
power and money, if they hope to dis-
courage them from an attack, by repre-
senting the bulk and strengtli of tneir
paper fortifications. They havex lost all
memory of the Excise and Uie Convention,
who can bdieve their eloquence sufficiently
powerful to evince, that the enquiry now
proposed ought to be numbered among
impossibilities.
Whoever, Sir, is acquainted with their
m'ediods of negodation, will indeed easily
.believe the papers sufficiently numerous,
imd the task of^examining them such as no
man would willingly undertake; for it
does not appear for what end the immense
sums whicn late parliaments have granted,
were expended, except for the payment
4>f secretaries, and ministers, and couriers.
But| whatever care has been employed to
perplex every transaction with mdos
circumstances, and to crowd erery dfice
with needless pikers, it will be long before
they convince us, tlut it is imp<M8ible to
exapiine them. They may doubtleisbe
in time perused, thou^ perhaps they can
never be understood.
The utmost inconvenience. Sir, that
can be feared, is the necessity, of engaging
a greater number of hands than on former
occasions, and it will be no disagreeible
method to the public, if we employ some
of the derics which have been retained
oiily for the sake of gnUifying the leaden
of boroughs, or advancing the distant re-
lations <x the defenders of the ministry,
in unravdling those proceediuRS which
tfatey have be^ hitherto hired only to em-
barrass, and in detecting some of thoie
abuses te which the will of their masters
has made them instrumental; that they
may at last deserve, ib some degree, the
salaries which they have pnjoyed, may re-
quite the public for their part of its spoils,
by contributing to the puuishment of the
principal plunderers, and leave their
offices, of which I hope the number will
be quickly diminished, with the satis&c-
tion of having deserved at last the thanks
of their country.
By this expedient, Sir, the enquiry wiQ
be made at least possible, and I nope,
though it should still remain difficult, those
who have so long struggled for the pre*
servation of their country, and who hare
at last seen their laboura rewarded with
success, will not be discouraged from pur-
suing it.
The necessity of such an enquiry wiD
grow every dar more urgeDt; h&aanse
widced men will oe hardened in confidence
of impunity, and the difficulty, such as it
is, will be encreased by every deky ; for
what now makes an enauiry difficult, win
the style of these mign^ politicians im-
possible, but the length of time that has
elapsed since the last exertion of this right
of the parliament, and the multitade of
transactions which are necessarily to be
examined ?
What is this year an irksome and te*
dious task, will in anoUier year require
still more iMitience and labour; and though
I cannot believe that it will ever become
impossible, it will undoubtedly in time
be sufficient to weary the most active
industry, and to discourage the most ar-
dent zeal.
The chief argument, therefore, that has
been hitherto employed to discoumge u»
S13]
Jht or CctHMUitBC fjflwpBity*
A. D. i74e.
[514
from an ttqiuiy) ought rather, in mj
opinioDy to incite ns to it. We ought to
remeoiber, that while the enemies of our
cooDtiyare fortifying themselveg behind
■D eDdie» multipbcity of negociations and
accounts, every day adds new strength to
thetr entrenchments, and that we ought to
fbroe them while th<7 are ye^ unable to
nskt or escape us.^
Sir fTt^m Yonges
Sir; however I may be convinced in my
own opinion of the impracticability of the
cnqdiy now proposed^ whatever confi-
dence I may repose in the extensive
kmnvle^ ioA. long experience of those
bj whom it has been openly pronounced
not only difficult but impossible, I think
there are arguments against the motion,
which, though perhaps not stronger in
themielves, (for what objection can be
itroDger than impossibility r ) ought at least
more powerfully to incite us to oppose it.
Of the impossibility of executmg this
enquiry, those who have proposed it well
dcKnre to be convinced, not by arguments
but experience; they deserve not to be
diverted by persuasions firom enoaging in
a talk, which they have voluntarily deter-
mined to undergo; a task which neither
bononr, nor virtue, nor necessity has im-
p«ed upon them, and to which it may
ej be suspected, that they would not
\ nibaiitted upon any oUier motives,
than those by which their conduct has
hitherto been generally directed^-ambition
and resentment.
Men who upon such principles con-
dann themsdves to labours which Uiey
p>iutot siqpport, surely deserve to perish
in the execution of their own projects, to
be orerwhehned by the burthens which
thn have laid upon themselves, and to
^&r the diMrace which always attends
me undertakers of impossibilities; and
<fom which the powers of raillery and
"dicule, which tluey have so successful! v
displayed on this occasion, will not be suf-
ficient to defend them.
Iliey have indeed, Sir, with great
^PfoumesB of language, and great fertility
of inu^^iattan, shown the weakness of
^Pponng this enquiry impossible; they
h^e proposed a method of performing it,
which they hope will at once confute and
f^ttate their opponenU; but all their rail-
^ and all ^eir arguments have in
1^ been thrown away upon an attempt
^confute what never was advances.
^ bave first mistaken the assertion
ITOL. Xil.]
which they oppose^ and then exposed its
absurdity; they have introducea a bug-
bear, and then attempted to signalize their
courage and their abilities, by showing
that it cannot firight them.
The hon. gentleman. Sir, who first
mentioned to you the impossibility of
this enquiry, spoke only according to the
common acceptation of words, and was far
firom intending to imply natural and
philosophic^ inq>08sibility.^ He was far.
from intending to insinuate, that to exa-
mine any series of transactions, or peruse
any number of papers, implied an absurdi-
ty, or contrariety to the established order
of nature ; he md not intend to rank this
design with those of buildinfj in the air, or
pumping out the ocean ; he intended only
to assert a moral or popular impossibility^,
to show that the scneme was not practi-
cable but by greater numbers than could
be conveniently employed upon it, or in a
longer space ottime thian it was rational to
assign to it ; as we sav it is imposs3)le to
raise groves upon rocks, or baud cities in
deserts, by which we mean only to imply,
that tl^re is no proportion between the
importance of the efibct, and the force of
the causes which must operate to produce
it; that the toil will be great, and the ad«
vantage little.
In tfab sense. Sir, and nothing but
malice or perversness could have (disco-
vered any other, the motion may be truly
said to be impossible ; but its impossibility
ought to be rather the care oftiiose who
muce, than of those that oppose it ; and
therefore I shall lay before the House
other reasons, which, unless they can be
answered, will determine me to voteagainst
it.
It cannot be doubted but the papers
which must on this occasion be examined,
contain a great number of private transac-
tions, which the interest et the nation and
the honour of our sovereign reauire to be
concealed. The system of policy which
the French have, within the last century,
introduced into the world, has made nego-
ciation more necessary than in any preced*
ing time. What was formerly performed
by fleets and armies, by invasions, sieges,
and battles, has been ot late accomplished
by more silent methods. Kinffdoms have
been enlarged without bloodsheil, and
nations reduced to distress without the
ravages of hostile armies, by the diminu-
tion of their commerce, and the alienation
of their allies.
For this reason, Sir, it has been neces-
[8L]
iis}
15 bibiiG^ n.
Dektfe im Ldrd lAmerkJ^s Motkm
[51<
sary IVequently to engage in ^rlrate trea-
tiefly to bbviate designs sometimes justhr^
and at otheir times perhaps unreasonably
aaspected. It has been proper to act
upon remote suppositions, and to conclude
alliancea which were only to be publicly
owned, in consequence or measures taken
(y some ether powers, which measures
were sometimes laid aside, and the treaty
dierefore was without effect In some of
these provisionary contracts, it is easy to
conceive, that designs were formed not to
the advantage of some powers, whom yet
ire do not treat as enemies, which were
only to be made public by the execution
of tnem : in others, perhaps some conces-
sions were made to us, in consideration of
the assistance that we promised, by which
the weakness of our allies may be disco-
vered, and which we cannot disclose with-
out making their enemies more insolent^
and encreasing that danger from which
they apply to us for security and protec-
tion.
If to this representation of the nature of
the paners with which our offices have
been fiued by the negociations of the kist
twenty years, any thing were necessary
to be added, it may be fkrther alleged, that
it has long been the practice of every
nation on this side of the globe to procure
private intelligence of the designs and ex-
pectations of the neighbouring powers, to
penetrate into the counsels of princes and
the closets of ministers, to discover the in-
structions of ambassadors and the orders
of ffeneralsi to learn the destination of fleets
before they are equipped, and of armies
before they are levied, and to provide not
Only against immediate and visible hostili-
ties, but to obviate remote and probable
dangers.
It need not be declared in this assem-
bly, that this cannot always be done with-
out employing men who abuse the confi-
dence repos^ in them, a practice on
which I shall not at this dme trouble the
House with my opinion, nor interrupt the
present debate, by any attempt to justify
or condemn it. This i think may be very
reasonably alleged, that whether the em*
ployment of such persons be defensible by
the reciprocal practice of nations or not,
it becomes at least those that corrupt
them and pay them for their treachery,
not to expose them to vengeance, to
torture, or to ruin; not to betray those
trimes which they have hired them to
qommit, or give them up to punishment,
Wtvhlch they have made themselves liable
only by their instigattoD^
vantage.
That privafte eompMtt lyetwecn Mlim
and sovereigns ought to be ke|« ifiiMAi;
secret, cannot be dofiHitefl wj aaj ua
who considers, that secrecy « aneitfthe
coftditions of ^ose treade0» wilhott wlidi
diey had not been condoded ; md there*
fore, that to discover lliem it to vietak
them, to break down the •ecuritttB of ki-
man society, to destroy mutual trust, »d
introduce into ^e worn uiMTersal codfu*
sion. For nodrnw less can be mducri
by a disregard of those tie« vmidi U
nations m confederacies, and pradmx
confidence and security, and whidli enaiyi
the weak by union to resist the attads d
powerful ambition.
How much it would injure the honMi
of our sovereign to be charged with th
dissolution of contord^ and the si&verra
of the general bulwarks of poblic f«th,ii
is Superfluous to explun. To fcnowthf
conoition to which a cowsfWfoofx wiA
this motion would reduce the BrttiA
nation, we need only turn our eyes doivm
wards upon die hourly scenes of coramaa
Hfe; we need only attend to the occw^
fences which crowd perpetually upen obt
view, and consider the calanutouxf state sf
that nuu)^ of whom it is generally knova
that he cannot be trusted, and that secicti
communicated to hhn are in reifity sot*
tered among mankind.
Every one knows that such a man cas
expect none of the advantages or pleaso/ev
of friendship,, that he cannot transact i^
fafrs with others upon terms of equafitj,
that he must purchase the Ikvoufs of
those that are more powerful than bin*
self, abd frighten those into conpltai^cf
with his designs who have any thing to
fear from him ; that he nmst give uncom*
mon security for the perfonnance i^ \oi
covenants; that he can have no influence
but that of money, which will piDbi*!/
become every day less, that his success
will multiply nis enemies, and diat m mn-
fortunes he wiU be wi^iit refuge.
The condition of nations collectifelj
considered is not diflerent from that of
private men, their prosperihr is produced
oy die same conduct, and Ih^ odamit^
drawn upon them by the same errort,
negligences, or crimes; and therefore,
since he tihat betra]|rs secrets in private
life, indisputahly forfeits his chdra to trust,
since he that can be no longer trusted is
on the brink of ruin, I cannot but cob*
chide that, ashy this motion alittese-
U7J
s^etaof MirgifiinittMit mptbe iaefUabljr
>«C3rajre4f mj duty lo bis mf^esty, my k>ve
o my couDtij, and nv obUgatioiis to di»-
inth fidelity the trust whkh my
here cooftrved upcm me,
me to oppose it.
Bfr. LyHtUan:
Sir; it dways portends well to tboie
jrbo dioNite oa tbe side of truth and rea-
KMSy men their opponents appear not
whiSif to behardenca against tbe force of
aripuientv when they seem desirous to
fpm tho Tiotoiy» not by superiori^ of
«9nBben»biil of reason, and attempt father
toeonvincoythantaterrify or bribe. For
Khoogh men sre net in quest of truth
&efiMd.Tes^ nor desirous to point it out
in ochero; yet while they are obliged to
mimk vith an appearance of siacevity,
%ef mittt aecewarily affard the uapre-
jpdKsed and atteotinre an cmportunitp of
fthcovenng ther^t. While they think
ftejr cMHiotbul; show the force of ajust
wgaMOfBM^ by the nosupceBsfolness of
jbeir tfidcavours to confute it» and the
propriety of an useful and salutary uhi-
iROBy by the slight objections which they
it. Ihey cannot but find
ives soaietimes forced todisoorer
tjhqr ettt never be expected to ao-
knowledgeti the weakness of their own
lesaoma^ bv deserting them* when they
are preasoa with contrary Sfl—rtioiM, and
seekm^a subterfu^ in new argummits
aquaUj inconclusive and contenptible.
Iney show the superiority of their oppo-
nenls» like other troopSy by retreatu^
hcfiwe them, and formiiV one fortification
behind anodiw, in hc^es of wearying
tbsse vrbom they cannot hope to repulse.
Of thia conduct we hove had aweady
sa instance b the present debate ; a de^
hsio managed with such vigour, order,
sad reaohition, as sidBclently shows
dbe advantsge of regular didpUno long
coaiimifd, woA prores, thst troops may
nlaio their skill and spirit, even wbm
they mo deprived of that leader, to whom
iMtnictioBB and enarople they were in-
ddMed for then. When first this motion
WM oftred, it seems to have been their
ckicf hope to divert ua firom it by outcries
of hnpnmihility, by representing it as the
fanand eC men unacquainted with the
Me of our olEoca, or the multiplicity of
tnuactions, in which the indefiitigaUe
hdnftry of our ministeni has been em-
(lojedi ond th^jr hftfo tbemfiNro end«o-
voared'tf persuade ua, that they astet onlj
discouraging us firom an iosupexahle la-
bour, and fdvising us to desist ironfi mea-
sures which we cani^ live to accom^
plish.
But when they found. Sir,' that their
exi^gerations produced merriment instead
of terror, that their opponents were de*
tennined to try their strength against im«
possibility, that they were resolved to
launch out into this boundless ocean of
enquiry; an ocean of which they have
been boldly told, that it has neither shorf
nor botto«^ and thatwhoever ventures into
it must be tost about for life ; when they
discovered that this was not able to shake
our reaoluti(»), or move ua to any other
disposition, they thoug^ht it proper to ex*
Ea away their assertion of impossibility!
nakingakind of distinction between
gs impossible, and things which can*
not be perfortoed ; mid finding it neces*
sary to enlarge their plea, they have now
asserted, that this enquiry is both fanpos*
sible and inexpedient.
Its impossibility. Sir, hm been alread|r
suiEcienUy discussed, and shown to mas^
only a difficulty which the nnskilfulness
of our ministers hm produced; fortransao*
tions can only produce difficulties to tbo
enquirer, when they are confused; an4
confusion can only be the effi^ct of i^gnor*
ance or neglect.
Artifice is, indeedi one more source of
perplexity ; it is the int^ est of that mao
whose cause is bad to speak iminteUigibly
in the defence of it, and of him whose
actions cannot bear to be examined, to
hide them in disorder, to ensage his pur^
suers in a labyrinth, that they may not
trace his steps and discover his retreat;
and what intricacim may be produced by
firaud oo*operating with subtilty, it is not
possible to tell,
I do not however believe^ that aU tho
art of wickedness oan elude the enquirim
of a British pi^Usmenti quickened fe^
zeal for the puolic happiness. The sag^
city of our predecessors hm often delect-
ed crimes concealed with more policy than
can be ascribed to those whose conduct
is now to be examined, and dragged the
authors of national calamities to punislt
mnnt firom their darkest retreats. The
expediency, therefore, of this motion i^
now to be considered, and sniely it wiU
not require long reflection to prove, that
it is proper, wh^ the nation is oppresmd
with calamities, to enquire by what min>
mudttotth^wombfoui^tupoaiti '
519]
15 GEOBGE n.
Debate oh Lord lAmendfs Motim
[5»i
immense sums have been raised by the
most oppressive methods of exaction, to
ask why they were demanded, and how
they were expended; when penal laws
have been partially executed, to examine
by what authority they were suspended,
and by what they were enforced; and
when the parliament has for twenty years
implicitly obeyed the direction of one man,
when it nas been known throughout the
nation before any Question was proposed,
how it would be aecided, to sebrch out
the motive of that regular compliance,
and to examine whether the minister was
reverenced for his wisdom and virtue^ or
feared for his power, or courted for the
public money ; whether he owed his pre-
valence to the confidence or corruption of
hisfoUowers?
It cannot surely be thought inexpedient,
to inquire into the reasons for wnich our
merchants were for many years suffered
tt^be plundered, or for which a war, soli-
dted by the general voice of the whole
nation^ was delayed ; into the reasons for
which our fleets were fitted out only to
coast upon the ocean, and connive at the
departure of squadlrons and the transporta-
tion of armies, to suffer our allies to be
tnvaded, and our traders ruined and en-
slaved.
It is in my opinion convenient to exa^
mine with the utmost rigour, why time
was granted to our enemies to fortify
themselves against us, while a standing
army preyed uppn our people ? Why forces
unacquainted with the use of arms were
sent against them, under the command of
leaders equally ignorant? And why we
have suffered their privateers in the mean
time to rove at large over the ocean, and
Hisolt us upon our own coasts ? Why we
did not rescue our sailors from captivity,
when opportunities of exchange were m
mnr power i And why we robbed our mer-
chants of their crews by rigorous impresses,
without employing them either to guard
our trade, or suboue our enemies ?
If parliament is not to be suffered to en-
quire into affeirs like these, it is no longer
any security to the people, that they have
the right of electing representatives ; and
mdess thev may carry their enquiries back
as far as they shaD think it necessary, the
most acute sagacity may be easily eluded ;
causes may be very remote from their con-
ae^uences, the original motives of a long
tram 0|f wifcked measures may lie hid in
. some iMrivate transaction of former years,
a^d tDoae advantngea which our enemies
have been of late sufcred to obtain, were
perhaps sold them at scmie fbrgottcn oon-
gress by some secret artide.
Sudi are probably tiie private tiaatic^
tions which thehon. gentleman is sonHidi
afraid of exposing to the IMit; tnosac-
tions in whicn the interest in this nstioD
has been meanly yielded up by cowardice,
er sold by treachery ; in wiriiji Great Bri-
tain has been considered as a provinoe
subordinate to some odier country, or m
which the minister has enriched hinoeif
by the sacrifice of the public rights.
It has been^ indeed, alleged with some
degree of candour, that many of ourtreatiei
were provisions against invasions which
perhaps were never intended, and caica-
lated to defeat measurei which only oar
own cowardice disposed us to 'fear. That
such treaties have, indeed, been made,
Hanover is a sufficient witness ; but hov«
ever frequently they may occur, they iwy
surely be discovered with very litdc dis-
advantage to the nation ; they will prore
only the weakness of those that nude
them, who were at one time intimidated
by chimerical terrors, and at another
lulled into confidence by airy scanty.
The concessions from fweign powei^
which have been likewise mentioned, ought
surely not to be produced as arguments
against the motion ; for what comd more
excite the curiosity of the nation, if, in-
deed, this motion were in reality produced
by malevolence or resentment ? If none
were expected to concur in it but tboK
who envied the abilities, or had felt the
power of ^e late minister, it migbt be
perhaps defeated by suchinsinustioos;
for nothing ^tdd more certainly regais
hts reputation, or exdt him to more abs^
lute authority, than proofs that he had
obtained for us any cimcessions from fo*
reign powers*
u any advantageous terms have been
granted us, he must be confessed to hare
so fiir discharged his trust to his allies, thfl^
he has kept £em with the utmost csut^n
from the knowledge of the peo|:de, who
have heard during all his administratioD
of nothmg but subsidies, submissioo, aoo
compliances paid to almost every pnn^
on tne continent who has had die codd-
dence to demand them ; and if by Hds&t'
quiry any discovery to the disadvan^ <»
our allies should be struck out, he ^7
with great shicerity allege, that it w»
made without his cmisent.
Another objection to'this enqtiiiy.'''
that the qpies which ai^ letainedinfoieigi^
M]
Jo/f a C&mmkUe qflnqmry.
A. D. i74S.
[589
Mirts muf be detected b^ it» that the
matB of our intelligence will be for erer
»pf>ed, and that we shall henceforth have
0 knowledge <^ the designs of forei|pa
owen, bat what may be lumestly attain-
1 by penetration ana experience* Spies
le, indeed, a generation for whose secu-
itj I have not much regard, but for whom
am on this occasion less solicitous, as I
idiare ver^ lew of them wiU be afiected
lY this motion.
The conduct of our ministers has never
liscorered such an acquaintance with the
ksigM of neighbouring princes', as could
tie soapected to be obtained by any un-
Dommon methods, or they have very lit-
tle improved the opportunities which early
information put into their power ; for they
iMtfe always been bafflea and deoeived.
Eitlier they have employed no spies, or
their spies have been directed to elude
diem by fiJae inteOigenoe, or true intel-
liKeoce has been of no use; and if any
u these assertions be true, the public wiU
not safcr by the motion.
it was iustly observed by the hon. gen-
tlenan, ttiat a parallel may be properly
dnwn between a nation and a private
»an, and by consemience between a trad-
ing nation and a trader. Let us therefore,
co&iider, what must be the state of that
tnder who shall never inspect or state his
iocouots, who shall sufier his servants to
^c in the dark with his stock, and on
m credit, and who shall permit them to
transact bargaina in his name, without en-
qoiriiig whether they are advantageous,
« whether they are performed.
Every man unmediately marks out a
™cr thus infatuated, as on the brink of
wnkixintcy and ruin; every one will
^vly foresee, that his servants will take
^vantage of his credulity, and proceed
«>uriy to grosser frauds; that they will
grow rich by betraying his interest, that
mcy will neglect his affiiirs to promote
{^own, that they wfll plunder him tiU
n« has nothing lefi, and seek then for em-
wraent amongst those to whom they
we recommended themselves by selling
«w trust. His neighbours, who easily
^laee his approaching misery, retire
^lum by d^ees, cUsunite their bu-
nn«8 from his, and leave him to fall
»tttoul involving others in his ruin.
Svich most be the fate of a trader whom
"eness, or a blind confidence in the inte-
1^7 of others, hinders from attendmg to
• own aibirs, unless he rouses firom his
fiVQber, and recovers Atmbk io&tuation.
And what is to be dene by the man who*
havine for more than twenty yean neg-
lected so necessary an empk>yment, finds
what must necessarily be found in much
less time, his accounts perused, his cre-
dit depressed, and his afiairs disordered ?
What remains, but that he suffer that dis-
order to proceed no farther, that he reso-
lutely examine all the transactions which
he hag hitherto overlooked, that he repair
those errors which are yet retrievable, and
reduce his trade into method; that he
doom those sairaots, by whom he has
been robbed or deceivea, to the punish-
ment which they deserve, and recover
from them that wealth which they have
accumulated by rapacity and fraud ?
By this mcUiod only can the credit of
the trader or the nation be repaired, and
this is the method which the motion re-
commends; a motion with which therefore
every man may be expected to comply,
who desires thiathis country should once;
more recover its influence and power, who
wishes to see Great Britain a^un courted*
and feared, and her monarch considered
as the arbiter of the world, the protector
of true religion, and the defender of the
liberties of mankind.
Mr. Phillips:
Sir ; I am so far from believing that
there is danger of exposing the spies of
the government to the resentment of fo-
reign princes, by complying with diis
motion, that I suspect the opposition to
be produced chiefly from a consciousness,
that no spies will be discovered to have
been employed, and that the secret service
for which such large sums have been re-
auired, will appear to have been rather for-
the service or domestic than of foreign
traitors, and to have been performed
rather in this House than m foreign
courts. ^
Secret Service has been lon^. a term
of great use to the ministers of this nation ;'
a term of art to which such unconunon
efficacy has been hitherto annexed, that
the people have been influenced by it to
pay taxes, without expecting to be in-
formed how they were sqpphed, having
been content witn being told when they
inquired after their properties, that they
were exhausted and dissipated in secret
service.
Secret service I conceive to have oriei-
nally implied transactions of which Uie
agents were secret, though the eflfects
igrere visible* When Marlboroi^h defeated
m\
15 GEOSP^ IL
Debate on Lofd Limeri^i Motion
[m
the Fr«Kh» vhoi k» countarafilQd aU tUehr
tmrtagem^ ob¥Mted iU thck designs, a&d
deceived eu their expectatioD8» he civirged
the natioQ with l«r ge suou for secret sei<»
vtce» whiek were» iedeed^ chearfoUj el*
towed; because the inpertenoe and reelkv
of the aenrke were apparent fixm ks e(&
fiMte. But what advaotages can our mi^
Bisters boast of httring obtabed in twenty
years br the roeaiM « their intel^geDce?
er by whom hare tkey> within that period,
Bot been deoeiied by fake appearances?
When we pwchase aecret serrice at so
dear a rate^ let it appear that we really
obtain what we pay tor, thoaeh the means
by whkh it ia obtained are kept impene-
trably aecret. Wherever the naefiilness
bf the inldUgenee is not diseoverable» it
is surdy just fee enouire, whether our
money ia act demandea ibr ether purposes,
whethef we are not in reelity hiriag with
our own asoney annies to enslave, or se*
Mtera to betray us ; or enricbtng an ava^
ncieua aunister) whSe we imagine oursdlvea
ooDtributiag to the public security?
Cobnel Chotmonddey ••
Sir? k 'haa beeai in all forecobg i^ges
the custom for men to qpeek of tSe aevem*
ment with reverence, even when tnev (^
nosed its measureSt or projected its disso-
fation ; Borhasit been Umugfat in any time
before our own, decent or pariiamentary to
give way to satire or invective, or indulge
a petulant imaginatton, to endeavour to
level all orders by conteniptaetts reflec*
tiene, or to court the populace, by echoinj^
their language, or adapting their senti-
This method of gaining dm reputation
ef patriotism, haa been unkBown tlU the
preaent age, and reserved fiir tiie present
leaders of the people, who will have the
hononr to stand recorded as the original
authors of anarchy, the great su^verters
ef order, and the first men who dared to
ptOBoance* tiiat aH the secrets of govern*
ment oagbt to be made pt^Iick
It has been hitherto understood in all
nsaimn, dmt those who were intrusted
widi inthority, had likewiae a daon to re-
specfc axul confidence; that they were
dmcen for the superiority of their abilities»
or the r^utatioB of Uieor vtrtue ; and that
tbeccfoce it was reasomdile to consign to
their management, the direction of such
afiurs as by their owa nature require
secrecy.
But this ancient doctrine, by which
«d»ordiaatiaB baa been aa long pceaerved.
is now to be set asada &r a
which may flatter the pride» andbdle ihe
passions of the people ; we are um loU
told, that affiura are only kept secret, be»
cause they will not bear ezaminatioa ; that
men conceal not those transscUoss is
which they have suoceededa but those ia
which th^ have &iled ; that tbey are oolj
inclined to hide their follies or their crimeai
and that to eiamioe their conduct ia tbt
most open manner, is only to secure the
interest of the public.
Thus has the nation been taqgbt to ex-
pect, that the counsels of the cabioet
shoi^ be dispersed in the ptdilic pspen;
that their geveraors should declare the
motives of their measures, and discover
the demands of our allies, and the scheme
of our policy ; and that the people should
be oonaulted upon every em^||eaoei aod
enjoy the right of instructing not obIj
their own representatives^ but the minifiteni
of the crown.
In this debate the mention of secret
treaties has been received with ceotanpl
and ridiculoi the ministeva have been up-
braided wilb chimerical fea^t and u]m^
cessary previsions against atUcks which
nevor woe derigned ; they have been al«
l^ged to have no other mterest in view
than their own, when they eadeavour to
mislead enquirers, and to nave in reslitj
nothing to keep from public view but their
oam ignoraBce or wickedness*
It cannot surehr be seriously asserted
by men of knowledfge and experience, that
there are no designs formed by wise go-
vernments, of which the Buccess depends
upon secrecy ; nor caa it be asserted, that
the enouiry now proposed will betrsj do«
thing nrom wtucn our enemies msj re-
ceive advantage.
If we should suppose, that all our
schemes are either fully accomplished, or
irretrievably defeated, it will not even tbeo
be prudent to discover them, since they
will enable our wemies to form conjec-
tures of the future from the past, sod to
obviate hereafter, the samedEsigns, wheo
it shall be thought necessary to resume
them.
But, in reality, nothing^ is more irrs-
tioaal, than to suppose this a safer time
than any other for such general discove-
ries ; for why should it be imagined, that
our engagements are not still dependingf
and our treaties yet inforeai And what
can be more dAshonouraUe or isaprudeot,
than to desUoy at cmce the whole scheme
of foreign pohcy^ to disaolve odt allioac^t
m]
J^ a Cemmktee ^Iwpury.
A. D. 1742.
[596
ind destroy the eieett of tocli long wo4
radi expeneive negockftioiiS) without fint
exanHiiing whether they witt be b«ie6eial
ar detrimental to «8?
Nor a it only with respect to foreign
iftifs that eecrecy is necessary; diere are
ndoubtedly many domestic transactions
vbicb it is not pn'PJ^i' to communicate to
die whole nation. There is st^l a factioii
among us, which openly desires the sub-
rersioQ ef evr present estaiblishme&t ; a
fiwtion, indeed, not poweifuli and which
grows, I hope, eweiy dbay weaker, bat
wlilcfa B frroured, or at least imagines it-
sdf finoared, by those who have so long
distinguialied tliemselwes by opposing the
measures of the gowemment. Against
these men, whose hopes are revived by
e\erj commotion, who studioudv heighten
every subject of discontent, and add their
ootcries to etery clamour, it is not
doubted hat measures are formed by
which their dengns are discovered, and
thdr measures broken ; nor can it be sup-
posed, that this 19 done without the asssst-
ince of some who are received with confi->
dence amongst diem, and who probably
pa» for the most zealous of their party.
Many other domestic occasions of ex-
pence might be mentioned, of expence
^ich operates in private, and {H^uces
benefits which are only not acknowledged
because they are not known, but which
cedd BO kioger be applied to the same
Q»^ purposes, if the channels through
vbich H passes were laid open. I cannot
therefore foiheEur to ofkt my opinion, that
Ail motioB, by winch aS the secrets of oui^
government will be discovered, wfll tend to
tbe confusion of tiie present ^stem of Eu-
fope, to the absolute ruin or our interest
uforeifi;n courts, and to the embarrass*
nent of our domestic affiurs. I cannot,
titerefore, conceive how any advantages
oa be expected by the most ea^er per-
Mcntors or ^e late ministry, which can,
^'en in their opinion, deserve to be pur-
abased at so dear a i«te.
Mr.Pto..
^ir; I know not by^ what iatditr the
*^ycnaries of (he motion are impeded to
1^ dieir adveraaries, and contr^ute to
*e* own orerthrow, by suggesting, when-
ever they attempt to oppose it, new argu-
*"to (fakist tbsmselves,
h has been kmg observed, thai when
^'^ Sfe drawing near to destruction, they
••jppaiently deprived of their under-
"^^^i and Gontrabvte by their own
Mfy to those calamities ilrith which diet
are threatened, but which might l>y a di&
ibnent conduct be sometimes delayed^
This has surely now happened to the veCe^
ran advocates for an absolute and unac*
countflft)le ministry, who have discovered
on this occasion, oy the weakness of their
resistance, that tiieir ahiiities are dedin->
iBff ; and 1 cannot but hope, that Uio omen
wul be fulfilled ; and that their infhtuatioa
will be quickly followed by their ruin.
To touch in this debate on our domes>'
tic affiurs, to mention the distribution of
the public money, and to discover their
(bars, lest the ways in which it has been
difitorsed, should by this enquiry be dis-
covered, to recal to the minds of their op*
ponents the immense sums which have
been annually demanded, and of whidh no
account has been yet given, is sorely the
lowest degree of weaikaess and impru-
dence. ^
I am so finr from h&ng convinced tliat
any danger can arise from this onqsrfrjr,
that I believe the nation can only be in*
jored by a long neglect of such examina-
tions ; and thdt a minister is easfly f&t-
midable, when he has exempted himself
by a khid of preiMnription from exposing
his accounts, and has long had bm oppoiw
tunity of employing the puMic mon^ lA
multiplying his dependants, enriching his
hirelings, enslaving boroughs, and coi^
rupting parliaments.
That those have been in reality the pur-
poses lor which the taxes of many yeait
nave been squandered, is sufficiently ap*
parent without an onouirY. We have
wasted sums with which the Rrenchi in
pursuance ef their new scheme of eo^
creasing their mfluence, would have hmih
able to purchase the submission of half the
nations of die earth, and with which the
monarchs of Europe might have been
held dependent on a nM; these diey
have wasted only to «nk oar country into
disgrace, to heighten die spirit of mipo^
tent enemies, to destroy our commera^
and distress our colonies. We have pi^
tiently sulered, during a peace of 20 years,
those taxes to be extorted from us, by
which a war might have been supported
against the most poweHul natieii, and
have seen them engu^hed in the bwuul-
less expences of the govennsent, witiieut
being able to discover any other eAdt
from them than the estabhshaient of mi-
ntsterial tyranny.
There has, indeed, bec» among the fol-
lowen of thooourt m le^olar subordioa-
ftW]
15 GEORGE n.
Debate an Lord UmerkVi MMm
[Sffi
lion, and exact ob^tence ; nor has any
man been found hardy enough to reject
the dicUtes of the premier. Every man
who has. received his pay, has with g^reat
cheerfulness complied wiUi his commands ;
and eveiy man who has held any post or
office under the crown^has evidently con*
aidered himself as enlisted by the nunister.
But the visible influence of i>laoes»
however destructive to the constitution, is
not the chief motive of an enquiry; an
enquiry implies something secret, and is
intended to discover the private methods
df extending dependence, and propa-
gating corruption ; the methods by which
the people liave been influenced to choose
those men for representatives whose prin-
ciples they detest, and whose conduct
thev condemn ; and by which those whom
their country has chosen for the guardians
of its liberties, have been induced to sup-
port in this House measures, which m
every other placfethey have made no
acninle to censure.
When we shall exainine the distribu-
tion of the public treasure, when we shall
enquire by what conduct we have been
debarred mm the honours of war, and at
the same time deprived of the blessings of
peace, to what causes it is to be imputed,
that our debts have continued during the
long-continued tranquDlity of Europe,
nearly in the state to which they were
raised by fighting, at our own expence,
the general quarrel of mankind ; and why
the sinking fund, a kind of inviolable de-
posit Impropriated to the payment of our
creditors, and the mitigation of our taxes,
has been from year to year diverted to
very diffisrent uses : we shall find that our
treasure has been exhausted, not to hum-
ble fore^ enemies, or obviate domestic
insurrections; not to support our allies,
or suppress our factions; but for ends
which no man, who feds the love of his
.country yet unextinguished, can name
without horror, the purchase of alliances,
and the hire of votes, the corruption of the
people, and the exaltation of France.
Such are the discoveries which I am
not afraid to declare, that 1 expect from
the enquiry, and therefore I cannot but
think it necessarv. If those to whom the
administration of aflwrs has been for 20
years committed, have betrayed thepr
trust, if they have invaded tne puMic
rights with the public treasure, and made
use of the dignities whichi their country
has conferred upon them, only to enslave
it, who will not confiess, that tney ought to
be delivered up to speedy jostiee^ Thst
tiie^ oii^ht to oe set as laodUmaiks to p«.
tenty, to warn those who shall heretlfter
launch out on the ocean of affltteBoeand
poorer, not to be too confident of a pros-
perous gale, but to remember, thai taat
are rocks on which whoever rushes must
inevitably perish ? If they are innoceot,
and fSur be it from me to dedaie them
guilty without examination, whom will
this enquiry injure ? Or wtutt effects inll
it produce, but that which every man ip-
p^urs to desire, the re-establishment of the
public tranquilli^, a &m confidence in the
justice and wisdom of tJie govenunefit,
and a general reconciliation of the peopki
to the ministers i
Colonel Mordaunt :
Sir; notwithstanding the zeal withj
which the hon. gentleman has urged tbcj
necessitjr of this enquiry, a seal of which
I think, it may at least be said, that it is
too vehement and acrimonious to be the
mere result of public spirit, unmixed with
interest or resentment; he hasyetbeea
so far unsuccessful in his reasoning, that
he has not produced in me any conviction,
or weakened any of the inmressions whidi
the arguments of those whom he oppoKi
had made upon me.
He has contented himself with recapito-
lating some of the benefits whkh nay be
hoped for firom the enquiry ; he has re-
presented in the strongest terms, the sap
posed misconduct of the ministiy; he
nas aggravated all the appearances of
wickedness or n^ligence^ and then has
inferred the usefulness of a general enquiry
for the punishment of past <dfences, and
the prevention of the like practices in fu-
ture times.
That he has discovered great aaalifioa-
dons for invective, and that his aeclaott-
tion was weU calculated to inflame those
who have already determined their q)iDioo,
and who are therefore only restijiinea from
such measures as are now recommended
by natural caution and sedateness, I do
not deny; but surely he does not expect
to gain proselytes by assertions without
proof, or to produce any alteration of sen-
timents, without attempting to answer the
arguments which have been offisred against
his opinion.
It has been urged, with great appearsocff
of reason, that an enquiry, such as is now
proposed, with whatever prospectb* of veo*
Knee, (^justice, or of advantage, it may
terus at a distance, will be in reality
8
S89]
fvr a Committee t^ Inquiry.
A. D. 1742.
[5S0
detrineDtal lo the public ; because it w31
discover all theaecreta of our government^
\kj all our n^^iationa open to the world,
wiU show what nowera we most fear, or
most trust, and tumish our enemies with
BMios of defeating all our achemea, and
counteracting all our measures.
This appears to me, Sir, the chief ar-
gument againat the motion, an aigu-
ment of which the force cannot but be
discovered by those whose interest it is to
coofiiteit, and of which, therefore, by q>-
Dealing to neglect it, they aeem to con-
fess duit it ia unanswerable; and there-
fore, aace I cannot find the motion jus-
tified otherwise than by loud declarations
of its propriety, and violent invectives
against the ministry, 'I hope that I shall
esa^ at least tlie censure of the calm
and impartial, though I venture to declare
itiat I cannot approve it ; and with regard
to the clamorous and turbulent, I have
long learned to despise their menaces, be-
caose I have hitherto found them only the
boosts of impotence.
Mr. CormoaaU:
Sir; if to obtain the important appro*
batioa of the gentleman that spoke last, it
be necessary only to answer the amiment
on which he has insisted, and nothing be
necessary to produce an enquiry but his
approbation, 1 shall not despair, that this
dfflste may be concluded according to the
wishes of the nation, that secret wicked-
ness may be detected, and that pur
posterity may be secured from any inva-
sion of their liberty, by examples of the
vengeance of an injured people.
To coafute the ar^ment advanced by
ibe hon. gentleman, it appears to me only
peceasaiy to deny the assertion on which
it is founded, of which I am, indeed, very
&r firom being able to find, that it is in-
^utable, or that it is any more than a
pretence ande use of to elude an examina-
tion far more dangerous to the ministry
^ the empire.
1^ us enouire how our affairs are
^'Biuacted, ana how this enquiry is to be
prosecuted, and it will soon appear, that
^danger which has been represented so
"'^nudable is merely chimerical, and that
^ na^ punish our domestic enemies with-
^t giving any advantage to the malice of
Jweign powers.
»is well known. Sir, that the public
*^ are not transacted personally bv the
V^ officers of state, without the inter-
^tion of meBaencecs, and the agency of
secretaries and clerks, by whom all dis«
patches are drawn up according to the
direction of their superiors, or transcribed
and reposited in the offices, and to whom
conseauently every transaction is known,
and all secrets are entrusted. The en-
quiry will be made by a Secret Committee
selected by the House, and delegated to
this employment for their capacity, in-
dustry, and integrity; and of whom it
may surely be asserted, that they are not
less worthy of confidence than the clerka
of an office, or less likely to prefer the in*
terest and security of their country ia
which they have large possessions, and of
their constituents by whom they have been
entrusted with the disposal of their pro-
perties and the guardianship of their rights,
to the idle vanity of amusing their com-
panions with a recital of secret transac-
tions, and the pleasure of magnifying their
own importance by showbg how much
th^ have been trusted.
The renort is, indeed, afterwards to 6e
brought before the House, and if any
criminal transactions are discovered, they
may become the ground of accusations or
impeachments. But it must be confessed^
that the people have made a very unhappy
choice, it the members of this House are
not at least as worthy of trust as the agents
of the ministry, for in the opinion of fiir
the greater part of the nation, the mi-
nistry itself has been selected from that
part of their representative, in which con-
fidence could least safely be reposed. :
It is not likely, that parliament will
publish the report, if it be found to con-
tain anyother secrets than those of trea-
chei^ and corruption ; or that they will
sacrifice the public happiness to the thirst
of vengeance ; and therefore I cannot but
believe, that the secrets of the govern-
ment may be still concealed, though Aa
crimes of the ministry be published to the
world.
The (question was then put, and deter-
mined m the negative by 244 against
242.*
* " While Palteney was confined bjr the
sickness and death of his daughter, the other
leaders of the opposition in the' House of Com-
mons, heiog eager to prove that they could
carry a ooeasure without his assistance, lord
limerick moved, on the 9th of March, for a
Secret Committee, to enquire into the admi-
nistration of sir Robert Walpole, during the
last twenty years. Winchelsea and Caiieret,
whom Pufteney bad particularly faronred, in-
timated to his ffiendSi without bis authority, .
SSI]
15 G£ORdB II.
Dibfde nd Lord LimruVs MiAum
' The Pension Bill passes the Ctmmtms.']
March 16. The Commons passed the Pen-
sioti'Bill, on a dlTision, Ayes 2SS» Noes
15S, which Mr. Carew was ordered to
carry to the Lords.
* ne Place-Bill passes the C&nmons.^
Marches. The Bill for the better securing
die freedom df parliaments, by limiting
that it would be agreeable to him if they woaM
90t attend; acinrdingly, the metSeo being
asada daring his absence, while Sandvswas
gone to Worcester to be elected, was lost by
a majority of only t ; f 44 against 244.
" Pttlteney in several aumences urged re-
l^eatodly to ttie king, that die Tories were by
no means Jaoohiles, and to use them as Jaco-
^bites, waa the ready way to make them ao$
that two-tbhds of the nattoa wars Tories, and
serefilefthemmenoflaigecstales. HeevM
ventured to ask the king why he naade him>
naif only the head of a |iarty, when ha might
be king of (he whole nation ! He himself^ he
added, was a Whig, his most btimate friends
were Whigs. He was of opinion, that the
flnmk of the tree in the gorernment should be
Ibrmed of Whigs, bnt mat the Tories mjabt
ba inocniated or engrallsd upon it. The
Tsries were not masters of calcolatioii, or pro-
ftoients in the knowled^ of languages, and
therefiire could not nor did noteij^ tha first
fttuations under goremmeat: by oonftrring a
Kw places at court on some of the most eon>
sulendile, by constituting othen lord lieate-
nants of the connties, and by distributing
some other marks of royal ibvonr, he would
disaim the whole party, and prevent their unit-
ing in oppositioa to government. By this
eenduet, the king might abolish all distinotiens
fff parties, and the remainder off his reign
might be peaceable and glorious. ButPulte-
ney was now talking in vain ; all hia remon-
strances were ineffectual; he was no longer
the soul of a great party, and lost thst ner-
aonal crsdit and power which he enjoyed mm
that situation.
• «« The third great object which Oribcd had
ta effisct, was bis own security, whidi the
temper of parliament, and the pi^ar outory
against him, rendered extremely difficult
£it the support of the king, the opposition of
the House «^ Peers, the gMdness of his cause,
and the steady zeal of his friends, finally pre-
vailed : the good sense of the nation was not
long to be dehided by vague accusations of
preSended patriots.
«* It is iwtunate, however, fbr the honour of
afar Robert Walpole, that the enquiry into his
administration took place ; as the ordeal which
he underwent on this occasion, was sach as
could have bean passed by ftw ministers, who
had, during ao long a period, directed the helm
of government id a great comimercial country,
divided into parties, and torn by fiictidns."
Coxe*s Memoirs of sir R. Walpole.
the number of oiEccrs ia the HcoBe of
Commons, was read the third time,paMd,
and sent to the Lords by Mr. Sandyt
Chancellor of the Exchequer.
DXBATB IK THX COMMONS OV LOED
Limerick's Motiok for AFPOiifTiuQ
A Committee to enquire into tub
Conduct or Robert Earl of Or.
tORD OtmiKO THE LAST TeN YeARS.
FVtm the London Magaxine.*'} March
2S. The Serjeant at Arms was ordered to
go to the Court oi Bequests and the
places adjacent, and sonnnon the metsben
to attend, which hmg done.
Lord Limerick rose and said :f
Sir s . notwithstanding the bad socgsm of
« Two disliaot Reports of Ms iffipsrtus
Debate haviof appearad in the Loadoa tad
Geademaa'a ftagaziae, both of Ihem are hen
preserred. The Londoo Maffasine gare the
Debate m December 174S ; the Geotkoan'i
(com^led by Dr. Johnson) in Jolj 1743.
f <' The motion of lord Limeridc to insti-
tote ao inquiry into the oondoct of sir Robert
Walp^, darmg the hMt twenty yean, had
beea thrown oat, and the loss of tbequeitiwi
had beea prineipsHy owin^ to the afasmoe of
Pulteney, and to the intimation that be was
averse to it. With a Tiew to contradict these |
reports, which he coondered as iojurioTa to
his reputation, as if be was demrons of died-
iag an enquiry, lord Limerick, at his rajnest,
made a second motion to appoint a soret
committee of enquiry into the conduct of the
earl of Orford, darings the last tra yean of
bis being first commissioner of the treasorj,
and chancellor and under treasurer of bis ma*
jestjF*8 exchequer.
** It will be unnecessary to enter into a de-
tail of the arguments which were aij^ed on
both sides, as well on this as on the fbnner
oecasiou, m which the late mmiater was tf
vigorously attacked, ably detoded, and ia
which his third son, Horace Walpofe^ teitified
his filial afleodon, by an animated sad nmf
speech sgainst the motion.
** It is sufficient to observe, that to dtxm
a minister of any specific acts of mal-aam'
nistratbn, is thepnvilsge of our weQ-r^-
lated eonstittttion, which no one bat a IrieDa
to a despoCie govetnment, could wish to he
removed; but to oonstitnte a geaeial eofj^
into the conduct of a miaisler for so losga
term as ten years, founded oh popalar ck*
mouis and vague suspwions, without paKieU'
larizing any act of guilt, and espeoallywr
measures which had been legally sanctioned
by parliament, seeoled as unjust as it was un-
constitutional. It required all the powers of
Pulteney, rwlio is, said to have still pie*
served «amiiacidoaa hAieoae intttBomi
SS32
Jbr a Commkiee qfbquiiy^
A. D. 174C
Ibsi
my lapt notioii (See p. 44>8) for inquiring
into tbe late concluct of our public a&irsy
it shall not diaoourage me nrom o£Fering
?ou HDotber of the same nature; because,
tlunk, pur making some sort of enquiry
during this session of parliament, uiso-
lutdy oecessarv lor quieting the minds of
the people, and for restoring in some de-
greOp tbis character and credit of our go-
▼ernment What sort of coomany some
goitlem^a may ke^, I do not know ; but
to me irho keqp all sorts of compiviy, the
djaippoiotm^it upon the former motion's
bdng reacted, appeared evident in the
face of every man, who had not reason,
upon his own account, or the account of
soflse of his friends, to dread the oonse-
qucnoea of that enouiry. And whatever
we laay think witnin doois^ it will be
thao^ia without, nty, it is now generally
said» that if some pecmle were not con*
scions «f their own gttut» the^ would not
so vigotonaiy oppose an enouiry; for an
imiAoeii^ man, when he finos mmself ac*
cused or aoqiected, will always desire to
be brought to a &ir and legal trial, that he
may bacve an opportunity to vindicate his
character against those whispers that are
spread 4NMit against it* This, Sir, is the
language now held without doors, and the
certain oonsequence will be, that if we let
of Cosnaaens,' aod all (he ekx^uenee ^ Pitt,
wbo ensineatly distingiushsd bunself in both
the^e debates, to piuliate or jostify such a
flamat abase of parliamentary interference ;
and it demanded all the accumolated weight
of tbe Tories and disafiected Whigs, to carry
it througli the Heaae, by a majori^ of only
MteOy 999 fltfaiOR 946*
<* The nolMm hgrng passed, aeemmittee of
<* The nolMm tenag passed, aeemmittee of
mamc^f oensistiiig of twenty-one memben^
vis apposBled. and eaipowered te Mamiae,
ia the most solemn manner, sudi persons as
thsy thoaifht proper on the subject matter of
tbctf eafCBiy. Of the twenty -one members
by beUoty all except two were the
-pooents of the late minister. The
Whigs aeeosed the Tories of hav-
iiy acted Ihlaely ia permitting the introdnotioa
« sir Henry Lydal and TalM, with a view te
Mkor the bwiaass, while the Tories on
thiv sda aceased Sandys of beinff rather a
lyy than an associate, and of rather embar-
iassia|^ than Ibrwannng the business. The
Mil of Orford, however, seems to have formed
I more indicions opiniou of this circumstanoe.
fbr hmg congratulated that tiro of his
ftiends were appointed meaibefB of the secret
eoBiiaitlee, ha replied, * Th^ will become so
mhHis ftr the heooar of the committee, that
ibay will no longer pay snftdent regard to
Stte*'" Case's lIoRioirsoCsirlLWa]|s>le.
ion pass over without any enquiry^
it will be said, that a majority of us have
been partakers in the guilt, and partners
in the plunder of our country.
From hence, Sir^ J must hope, thai
every innocent man in this House, (and
now that one man is gone from amongst us,
I hopHe, all of us are so,) ^nUl be for the
question I am now to propose, because t
have taken care to prevent its being liable
to the two chief objections that seemed tq
prevail aeunst my last motion. Thes^
were, its oeing too extensive as to timop
and too extensive as to matter. An en^
quiry for. twenty years back was thought
to be without precedent, and that it would
be such a precedent as might be of dan-
gerous consequence in future times* This
was one of the chief obiections against it.
and an obiection which, I believe, had
weight with some whose concurrence I
hope to be &voured with in this motion.
And the other objection was. its compre*
bending all our foreim as well as domestic
aflfairs, which must of course have brought
all the papers relatmg to our fore^n nejgo*
ciations before our committee. To this it
was objected, that it would endanger the
discovery of some of the . most important
secrets of our government to our enemies,
which might be of the most fiital conse*
quence now that wq are engaged in one
war, and in great likelihood of bein^ soon
obliged to engage in another. This like*
wise seemed to have weight, and,^I be-
iieve, prevailed with some gentlemen to
be against m v former motion ; for which
reason I shall now only move, *' That i|
Committee be qypointed to enouire into
the Conduct of Kobert earl or Orford,
during the last Ten Years of his being
First Commissioner of the Treasury, and
Chancellor and Under-Treasurer of his
Majjesty*s Exchequer."
Sir; 1 hope the time of enquiry pro*
posed by this motion will not be thought
too extensive { for considering the chief
orime of a domestic nature, he has been
accused of, our enquiry cannot, I think,
be confined within narrower bounds. The
crime I mean, ia that of appljring not only
all the favours of the crown, but even the
public money, towards gaining a corrupt
mfluence at elections and in parliament..
This he is generally accused of by the
voice of the people without doors; and, I
believe, there is not a gentlenoan in this
House that has been chosen in opposir
tion to what was called tbe court in-
terest, wbo was not sensible of some sud^
es5]
15 GEORGE n.
ZMateoHLordUmtriePiiMM
m
practices being carried on againflt him, be-
fore and at the time of hia election.
Every gentleman must be sensible, that it
is very difficult to fix such practices upon
a minister, because they are not only car-
ried on in an hidden manner, but by tools
and under-agents, who do not appear at
the election as agents for the minister, but
as agents for the court candidate ; and
generally spend their money very flreely,
Uiough it IS often known, that neither
they nor their candidate had ever any
money of their own to spare. Nay, those
agents are often known to be treasury-
agents, though in the common course of
justice it is impossible to prove that they
are. It wiH even be difficult for a com-
mittee of this House, with all the powers
we can give them, to trace this practice
up to its original source ; but, considering
the general suspicion without doors, and
the many strong reasons there arc for be-
lieving that suspicion to be well grounded,
we ought certomly to aim at it ; and if we
do, we cannot begin later than the time
when canvassing may be supposed to have
begun for the chusing of the last'par-
Sunent, which I reckon, was about ten
years ago; for as that parliament was
chosen in the summer 17S4, we must
suppose that the candidates, especially
where there was like to be an opposition,
begun to take measures for secunng their
interest in the summer 1732, which wiU
just come within the term of ten years,
computing back from this time.
For this reason, I hope this will appear to
be the shortest time I could move for ; and
as it is much shorter than the time pro-
posed by my last motion, I hope I riiall have
the concurrence of many gentlemen who
then appeared acainst me ; especially as I
havelikewisein this taken careto obviate the
other objection, of its being too extensive
•s to the noatters proposed to be enquired
into ; for as this noble lord had by none
of his offices any thmg to do with foreign
aflfturs, this motion cannot be said to relate
to, or comprehend any aifiurs of that na-
ture, unless it be supposed, that this mi-
nister directed eveiy other branch of
public business, as wdl as tluit of the trea-
■urv, which, I am sure, none of his friends
will pretend to say, because thb would be
as ^reat a crime as any he is accused of.
Tins motion cannot therefore be supposed
to relate to any foreign afibir, and, conse-
quently, an enquiry into this nobleman's
conduct, cannot be stjqiposed to endanger
tediscoveryafany of the seciels of ov
government. Nay, if he^ whilst he win
office, confiiied hunaelftothedutyof hit
office, our enquiry, in pursaanoe of thii
motion, can comprehend but one bnack
even of our domestic affiurs, and tlat
branch too, which, of aD others, basthe
least to do with our foreign affidrk An
enquiry into the conduct <k a secretsry of
state, a secretary at war, a comimisioBer
of the admiraltj^, or even the lord high
diancellor, might be said to have sone re-
lation to foreign aflbin ; but I cannot aog-
gest to myself what a commiBsioner of the
treasury can have to do with fbieiga af-
fairs, or how an enquiry into his condoct
can have the least relation to any foragn
affidr whatsoever; consequently, I hope,
this motion will 'iqipear to be quiteiree
from that objection whidi seemed to be
urged with so much weight against mj
former ; and as so much has in this ses-
sion been said, upon fonner oocanons,
about the necessity of an immediate en*
quiry, I shall add no more, bnt move to
resolve. That a Committee be ^pointed,
as I have before menticmed.
Sir J. St. Aubin seconded the motioa.
Mr. Horatio JValpok*^ jun. ^e to
this effect : v
Sir ; whatever were the prevailing ob«
jections, or may be thought to have been
the prevailing oDJecdons against the former
motion, by some gentlemen, that of its
being too extensive, either as to tiae or
matter, was far from being the most pre-
vailinff with me. The <3>jectioD which
prevaued most with me against the Ust,
and will equally prevail against this, was,
that, I think, we nave no cause for an en-
quiry, and, if we had, this is not a proper
traie for iL The suspicions that are en-
tertained, and the damours that are made
without doors, are neither the sospidoos
nor the clamours of sensible and discern-
ing men, nor of men of fortune and cir-
cumstances in our country, uidess it be
such as cover their disaffisction to the rojai
family under the doak of being discoo-
tented with the measures pursued by the
administration. They are the suspicbtw
and damours either of Jacobites and re*
publicans, or of the mere mob; and, I
hope, I shall never see the measures or
proceedings of this House directed by
either of these sorts of men. If you woe
to be directed by Jacobites and npoUi-
yoa would not only eaqair^ but
aoBoflhaEaiiofOiiM.
jn
Jif a ConmUiee ^Inquitj/*
A. D. 174$.
[6»
ang upeveiyinaiithat dared to wrye the-
lyaliaiiuly now upon our thrcmet that
bey might thereby, at last, get the royid
umly itaelf banished oat of the kingdom ;
nd, if you were to be directed by the
nob, you would, for their diversion, and
or DO other cause, send some minister or
ther every other year to Tyburn or
rower-hill. Such an execution would be
ibolyday to all the children, apprentices,
Dd journeymen about London; and if
hey are diverted, they trouble their heads
ery little at whose expence, or about the
usboe of the sentence.
ThesuspicioDS or die murmurs without
korisre never to be a rule for our pro-
xediogs, unless we are fully convinced,
ha t&re is some very good ground for
liose suspicions and murmurs ; and this, I
iiiok, cannot with reason be said by any
gentleman at present. The only ground
of complaint which the noble lord was
ileased to hint at, was that of applying the
poblic money, and all the favours of the
crown, towards gaining a corrupt influ-
ence at elections and in parliament. Sir,
with regard to the favours of crown,
I do not see how any minister can
be made to answer for their disposal, be-
cause they are directly din>osed of by the
king himself^ who very often disposes of
tbem without so much as asking the ad-
vice of the minister whose proper de-
partment they belong to ; and therefore, if
«&y finilt could be supposed to have be^n
committed in this respect, it would be a
<^^^e against the long himself; which, I
^>e, wfll be allowed to be a sort of a
charge that cannot be brought by this
House, or by either House of Parliament
t*erhapa, those favours have been lately
granted generally to those, or the friencul
of those, that approved his majesty's mea-
iures in parliament. Sir, it is venr natural
^y should be so disposed of: they have
^ways been so disposed of. His maiesty,
I am very sure, never proposes, mucn less
pursues any measure but what he thinks
light; therefore he must suppose those
gentlemen to be the best friends to their
^<^tiy, who approve of and support his
^Q^asures in parliament ; and I hope it will
&ot be imputed to him, or to any of his
Ministers as a crime, to bestow the favours
^the crown upon those they think the
J^ Wends to their country. This, I
^1 will answer for those favours of the
^^ that are bestowed upon members of
P^^'^i^t; and, if they have any firrours
'^ their gift, or can obtain any fitvoufs
from the crown for other persons, they
are, in gratitude, obliged to dispose of
those favours among those who supported
their interest at their election. This has
always been the practice, it always will, it
alwavs ought to be the practice; because,
as 1 nave said, it is what gentlemen are in
gratitude bound to do ; and to be grateful
will never, 1 hope, be deemed criminal.
If this. Sir, is to be called a corrupt in»
fluence, it is impossible for us to be with*
out it, ^B long as the crown has any fa*
vours to bestow. It is what every gentle-
man practices, and ought to practice in
his private capacity as well as in his public*
If he has any favours to bestow, if he can
procure any &vours, as a good citiaen he
ought to bestow them upon, or procure
them for those that, in his oiHnion, de-
serve best of their country, and if he pur-
sues what he thinks the interest of his
country, he must think those men deserfe
best of their country who approve of tlie
measures he approves of, ana support him
in the pursuit of them. This may, indeed,
be a corrupt influence, with regard to
some of those upop whom the favours are
bestowed : they may, perhaps, pretend to
approve of, and may support their patron
in the pursuit of measures which they do
not in their hearts approve g£; but, witli
regard to him, it is no corrupt influence,
as long as he pursues those measures
which he thinks will contribute most to
the ^security and happiness of his country.
In the person who bestows, the disposal
of favours can never be supposed to be
with a design to procure a corrupt influ-
ence ; nor can it be imputed to him as a
crime, unless he; pursues such measures as
he knows to be destructive to his country ;
and as this is a crime in the mind orJy, we
can never discover it by an enquiry, nor
can it be justly punished by any subhi^
nar^ power ; it can neither be detected nor
punished by anv thing but thehand of Grod.
With regard to the disposal of public
money, it is easier, indeed, to discover a
criminid practice. If that has been dis-
posed of towards bribipg votes, either in
parliament or at elections, and without a
pretence of any real and honest service
performed to the public, it niiay be de-
tected^ and ought to be punisfaled. But
there are two very strong reasons for mak-
ing us believe, that no such practice has
lately been made use of. Sudi practices,
as all criminal practices are, are generally
carried on in a hidden manner; but ta
issue money from -the treasury ffar tUa
5S9J
15 6E0E6E U.
DebaU on Lvrd Limerkl^i Motion
^
purpofet I think imposable to be done in
a hidden nuumor* There are ao many
conuBUUNuonenh and so many clerks attena-i
lag that board, that such a practice could
not long escape a discovery ; and besides,
tbece must be so many agents employed
to carry this money to the country ; and
to distribute it in a proper manner, that
no man of common sense would trust to
the secret being kept. Some one of
those to whom it must be communicated,
would certainl}^, either out of regard to
his country, or in expectation of a reward,
or from some disappointm^t, become an
informer, and a durect evidence against
the hi^ criminal* As no such thing has
hq>Bened : as the noble lord does not so
mack as pretend that he has any such
information or evidence, I must suppose,
that no such crime has been lately com-
mitted. Even if there were a general
rumour among men of sense and discre-
tion without doors, that such a crime bid
been frequently committed, I should look
upon it as a mere groundless rumour, un-
less some gentleman of character could
aay^ he had direct evidence to produce.
Another argument. Sir, ibr my thinking
the committing^ of this crime impossible,
is the method introduced by the Kevolu*
tion» of appropriation all parliamentary
ffrants, and the reffuw accounts of the
okposal of all public monies that have
been of late years laid annually before the
parliament. These grants are generally
so far from having any excess or surplus,
that they are oftm insufficient for answer-
ing the services to which they are appro-
priated by parliament ; and if ever ttiy
surplus has arisen, it has always been ac-
counted for, and has been applied bpr the
next six^reeding sessioD to the service of
the ensuing year. From hence, I think it
impoisible to suppose, that any one of the
eomanssioners or the treasury, or all of
them togeth^, if they were conftderates
IB the crime, could htve the command of
any ptdilic money, which they might ap«
ply towards carrjring on the practfce com-
plained of. I say. Sir, they could have
theooinmand ofno public money, which
they ceidd mply to this puipotoe, uni^e
th^ took it from the dvil ust revenue ;
and if we consider the man^ checks the
sBsposal of that revenue is liable to, and
th* great, care his majesty takes of that
pgt nf it which is drawn out by special
wanant, wa cannot suppose ttiat they
•onM> app^ any part of that revenue to
tbacanja^ an oC sucha practice^ espe-
cially such laiyje sums as would be oeces*
sary for carrying {t on with efibct, wiAoat
supposing, which God fqrlnd any ooe
should suppose, that his iiia|esty himself
was a sodus crimnis.
For these reasons, Sir, I cannot suppose
we have the least cause or reason for set-
ting tip such an enquiry as is proposed by
this motion ; and with all due reg9rd to
this House, I must say, that if an enqoiry
were set up, as I hope there never wi]],
without any apparent cause whatever, I
should very much suiq>ect, that it pro-
ceeded from malice and resentment, in
which case I should veir little expect, that
the person whose .conduct was by such
means to be enquired into, should meet
with any candour or fair treatment. If I
judge more &vourably of the cause and
character of the noble lord» whose conduct
is so particularly prooosed to be enquired
intOy than other gentleman do, 1 hope the
connection 1 have with him, the natural
duty I owe him, will plead my excuse, li
I thought his character su&red among
the valuable and discerning naai of man-
kind, and such as ar^ true friends to our
happy constitution, and the royal Bunily
now upon our throne, as I am fuUy con-
vinced of his innocence, the same duty
that now prompts me to be the first to op-
pose an enquiry into his conduct, would,
m that case, prompt me to be the first to
propose it, as soon as a proper time pre-
sented for that purpose, which I cannot
think the present is.
When the nation. Sir, is in so much
danger, when our best and most natural
ally upon the continent is in the most im-
minent danger of being destroyed, or so
much reduced as never for the future to
be able to do us any service ; when ve
ought to employ all our time in consult-
ing and taking proper measures for extri-
cating ourselves and our allies from the
danger that now threaten all of us; vould
it be proper, would it be prudent for us to.
take up our time with enquiring into the
little frauds that may have been committed
ia the management of our pi4>lic revenue,
supposing we were certain that some such
had been committed? It would give the
courts dbroad such a mean q[Mnion of our
prudence* or sudi a suraodon of our seal
tor the present rdief of Europe, that noue
of them would treat with us or enter into
axkj concert or n^odation with our sove-
reign.
For this leason. Sir, if the case were
such as I have just meationed : if ^^
m
Jar a Committei ^Ingturt/*
A. D. 1742*
[542
kefice I thou^t myself bound in duty
jsda&ctioo to the best ofparents, as well
lost of regard to myself; to promote an
B^iW* in order to vindicate a character
I whidi I glorjTy and from, which I hope
Ifcsp honour as long as I live, I should
I die present crisis, and till I saw my
lODtiy out of danger, suspend my aim-
II It tfiAt satisfaction. An enquiry into
|{^ minister's conduct always has, and al-
{kjfs will increase the violence of those ani-
iDoties, which must reign amongst us as
Kg we are a free people ; for let a mim's-
_ never so innocent, let the enquiry be
femio strict and impartial, let his justifi-
Itfoobe ss dear as tne sun, there will re-
llBgomecloudy minds where no truth can
KtFBte, and the aniqiosity of such will
eife fresh vigour from their diss^point-
l^t On the other hand, let a mmister
never so guilty, let his sentence be
vr so mo&rate, there will be some,
hsps many, whose fHendship will ob-
ict the rays of truth: th^ will think he
met with injustice, ana their revenge
[ add violence to their animosity. Is
isproper time to create such a dispute
Mifision i Our enemies abroad would
Ifsmly oflfer assistance to the offiended
bty St home, and their disappohtment
l^ievenge might smother those yearnings
lidi would otherwise arise in favour of
^Moe and safety of their countiy.
Idqs, Sir, as I think we have at present
\ cadse, and as I think, this would be a
ly improper time for setting up anj
^my mto the late conduct of our public
■n: as these were the two iMetBrpx*
Ms diat prevailed with me to be against
I last motion for an enquiry; and as
A diese militate^ as strongly against the
^iiry now proposed, I must give my
{ptiretothe noble lord's motion.
The Honl Bdmard Digits :
Bar; I belieye every man present in
b House, win readily excuse the young
rfeman who first opposed this motion,
r gjhiDg his negative to the question. I
wre no one expects his approbation of
dk cqtoestien ; because, I am convinced,
lOSaks the noble lord, whose conduct is
m proposed to be enquired into, was
wrgoil^ of any crime, nor suspected
be so b^ any gentleman of fortune and
nscter m tins kinffdom. He may, per-
fs, have now and then heard a huzza
Nm^ an nnlucky occasion among the
ob la the streets ; but surely no gentle^
in would be so unpolite, except m tiiit
place, where WQ are in honour obliged to
speak our minds freely, as to insinuate to
tne son the least snspision, that hia fkthet
had plundered his country, misapplied the
public money, and formed a scheme for
overturning the happy constitution. I
should not have been so personal. Sir, if I
had not thought it absolutely necessary
to say what was proper for preventing the
hon. gentleman's strong assertions from
having any weight in this House. He
may believe what he asserts to be tnie : I
am persuaded he does ; but he bannot be
supposed to know the fact, therefore his
assertion can have no audiority; ahd, I
believe there are many gentlemen in this
House, who are in the same circumstances
#ith him.
But, Sir, I would have that gtetteman,
and every other gentleman, to take care
what they say, when they insbuate, that m
gentleman of sense and fortune, unlesn
he be a Jacobite or republican, has the
least suspicion of the nmie loriH conduct
now under our ^onidderation. Have not
they, upon former occasions,, heard many
ffentlemen in this House, not only declare
uieir having suspicions, but gTve, what I
thought, incontestable reasons for shew-
inff» that' those suspicions areweD ground-
eu? 1 believoi none of those ^ntlemen
will be directly charged with being a man
of no fortune or character, or with being «
Jacobite or republican; and they faave^
liponall occasions, shewn themselves to be
men of as good sense as those who assert
the contrary. It would be unlucky for bii
majes^, and his family, as wdl as for our
5 resent happy constitution, if all were
acobites or republicans that suspect our
late minister's conduct: his nugesty would
find man^ of jthem, perhaps a mi^oiityy
both in his army, and amonff his servants^
who, though tney dissemble their senti*
tnents at present, would certaTnly dedare
themselves openly, and take measures
accordingly, upon the first favourable
opportumty. Those who have a true
regard for jthe security' of his majes^a
government, will be extremely cauttons of
propaganng such accusations. It waa the
custom of kmgChules the first's court, in
the beginning of his reign, to tax all thoa^
who opposed their arbitrary measnrea
widi being Puritans: What waa the oonw»
quence? Most of tfioae men actuallf
became so, and thereby made thb i
such a powerful party in the king
at last puQed down that nnfortmmate I
fromv tne throne be sat oB| and, f de.fonH
543] 15 GEORGE IL
.^n comble/ overturned the constitution of
our government.
As there are certainly great complaints
.without doorSy of misapplication and cor-
ruption : as this fBLCi is proved b v the testi*
mony of many gentlemen in the House,
-who have no places, pensions, or prefer-
ments to bestow, and, consequently, are
better judges than those that have; if I
were a placeman and a friend to our late
minister, as all, I think, of his friends are,
though, from the complaisance, or, per-
haps, dissimulation of those I conversed
with, 1 had never heard of there being any
such complaints without doors, yet from
the testimony of so many gentlemen who
are the best judges of the people's senti-
ments, 1 should certainly believe the fiict,
and as a friend to the minister, or to my
country, should join in this motion, in
order to vindicate my friend if innocent,
or expose him to the justice of the nation if
guiltv.
That
all the titles, honours, pensions,
places and other favours of the crown have
tor twenty years past been disposed of to
none but such as voted in parlijiment, or at
elections, according to the direction of the
.minister : that within these ten years seve-
ral persons of high rank and great merit
have been dismissed from all the offices
they held at the pleasure of the crown, for
no other known or assignable reason, but
because they opposed the minister in parlia-
ment: that officers in the army and navy
who got themselves seats in this House,
and voted as they were bid, have gained
preferments out of their rank, to the disap-
pointment of officers of longer service and
greater merit in their military capacity :
Uiese things are known to all men, both
within doors and without ; and are of them-
selves a strong presumption, if not a cer-
'tain proof, that our minister had a formed
design to overthrow our constitution, by
establishing a corrupt influence in parlia-
ment.
To tell us, that the king disposes of his
favours himself, often without the advice
of the minister, whose department they
properly belong to, can be of no weight in
this House. By our constitution the king
can do no wrong ; but every minister is
answerable to parliament, if the king by
his advice, does any thing that is wrong.
As soon as he discovers such illegal prac-
tices, he ought to advise the king against
it^ and if he finds his master will not take
bis advice, he ought directly to throw up
his employmenti and impeach the minister
Dthfde on Lard LimericVs M^ion [54)
who has given such wicked advice tolq
soverei^.
Sir, It is a new doctrine in tliisuttn
and id)solutely inconsistent with ov o»
stitution, to tell us, that his niaiesty ntv
and ought, in the disposal of offices or £
vours, to consider gentlemens' bduvioi
in this House. Let his majesty be oew
so well convinced of the wisdom and m
rightness of his measures, he ought Dot|
take the least notice of what is said 9
done by any particular man in this H«
He is a traitor to our constitution thttS
vises his majesty to do so; and lamso^
the expression fell from the hon. geot|
man, because it will be supposed that he]
conscious, or has heard of something i|
this nature being done. If reports ■
carried to his majesty, with re|^ tofl
behaviour of any particular geDtleonu
this House, or at an election, he oudjU
do with them as it is said king Vi^
did with the papers of a plot he hadl
covered. By perusing one of then,!
found reason to suspect some of his coi
tiers had been concerned : idiereupoal
threw them all into the flames, that A^
might not furnish him with saapidd
gainst those he took to be his trvoA
The same monarch shewed another jj
stance of his generosity, and of his icgii
for our constitution: a post in the an
having ^len vacant, the gentlemaai|
had the next right to it, happened to bs
member of this House, ana one that hi
opposed the court, which few officers I
now a^days : the ministers, as usual, «a
against his preferment, because he had if
posed the king's measures in parliameol
but the king told them, thegentiemaD hi
always behaved well as an officer, aadl
had nothing to do with his behaviour i
parliament; so gave him the commisBic
he had by his rank a right to. This %
acting lilce the king of a free people, as
it might be expected from him, becsp
he was brought up in a country where d
people had some rights and privily I
pretend to. Every sovereign of diej
Kingdoms ought to act in the same xassm
he must act so as long as we have an ii
dependent parliament, otherwise he wi
get no ministers to serve liim, if tbey h«
a regard to their own safe^: for mou)
by our constitution our king can do i
wrong, .and therefore we cannot caU hii
to an account, yet every minister is ai
swerable for the king's, behaviour as in
as his own, in the business belonging to h
particular departmenti and, coosequesd;
M5]
fiira CcmmUieoflnfuiryk
A. D. 1749.
[51S
if for hit oim oafely cbKged to thnnr up,
if the kmg does any thing by himself, and
widiout or against bis advice, which
nems to be inconsistent with our consti*
Si^ppose, Sir, a mbister thinks the mea*
nres nght, and for the benefit of the na*
tioD: suppose they really are so; yet he
way be guilty of corrupt oractices in pro-
cunng the approbation of^ parlianient. If
be threatens a member witn the loss of his
plsoe, or with a denial in any reasonable
withe is to make to the crown, as a cod-*
se^foence of his opposb^ that mea«ure, or
whJEit are called the king's measures in
porlisiien^i if by his conduct he shews,
that this will be the oonsequence of op-
ponog sny court candidate at elections^ or
nj court measure in parliament, he is
giulty of corrupt practices: and therefore
thk crime is not so much a crime of the
miDd aa the hon. gentleman imaginesrfor I
donotknow of our having ever admitted in
this idogdom the Jesuitical maaim, that
tltt end justifies the means* But suppose
tba crime to be merely a crime of the
mind, do not our common law courts often
try and punish such crimes ? Murder is a
aialieioiis killing: malice is a crime that
ctmaista in die mind only; because killing
Buy in itself be an innocent, even a me«
ntoriotti action, as in the case of sdf-de-
fence, or killing a highwayman or pirate ;
yet our common-law courts often try,
eoovict, and punish men for mtuder ; and
cannot the h^h ooiut of parliament do
vhat is everyday done by a common judge
lad jury? . .
Sir, if theryonng gentleman had been
loag in patttament, he would not have laid
lomucfaatiess upon parliamentai^ appro-
pnttioBs, or accounts delivered mto par*
nunent, as he seems to do. Every one
^ knows how superficially our estimi^tes
ttui accounts have been looked into by
P^rliaoient for manv years past, must
KBov, that they can be no Restraint, or but
s very alender one, upon a minister's con*
|bct A future service may be over-tated
in the eaiimate, a past service may be b ver«
cittrged in the account, without its being
taken the least notice of by parlianient ;
^d therefore a minister may purloin con-
sderable sums from what is appropriated
tO) and aopposed to have been faithfully
wtiotttin the public service, and apply
^^ to#aidshis own use, or, what is worse,
towards corrupting the voters at electicms
* in parliament. The Hessian troops
"imished us with anezaoiple of the pes*
[VOL XII, 1
sibility^of this practice : a curiam sum i
every year appropriated by narliament for
that purpose, and accounts aelivered in as
if it nad been annually applied wholly to
that purpose ; but, by accident, it after*
wards appeared, that a part of that money
had beeai applied to another use, I mean
the deficiency of the French subsidy to
Denmark^ which they had enga^ to pay
in consequence of the treaty or Hanover,
and whidi we were so generous as to nmk^
good, though they were certainly more
concerned in interest in the consequences
of that treaty than Great Britab was, what-
eyer the electorate of Hanover might be *•
This shews, that the public money may
be applied to other uses than those t<^
whidi it is a^^propriated, when the minister
has a majon^ of this House at his beck ;
for thou^n this discovery was made by ac-
cident. It did not occasion so much as a
motion for an enquiry into the disposal of
the public treasure, nor would any suda.
motion have now been made, I beueve, if
die minister's majority had been as certain
in this parliament as it was in the two last;
beouise gentlemen have been quite tired
out with making motions for the benefit of
their country, against a determined ma*
jority in parliament. This, Sir, likewise
shews, that the multitude of commissioners
and officers in the Treasury, notwithstand*
ing there being too great a number of
both, can no way endcmger the discovery
of any such misapplication, especially
when the first commissioner there nas the
direction of the secretary's office, and
every other office in the kingdom. The
other commissionerB, and the officerp,
either do not really know how the money
issued by them is applied, or else they
will never make a discovery, as long aa
they know that their first commissioner
continues to be the chieffavouriteof the
crown. This has been the touch-stone of
such discoveries fi>r many years past, and
always will be so, till we have a parliament
independent and resolute enough, to pull a
suspected minister even from behind th*
throne itself.
. Then, Sir, with regard to the civil lot
revenue, considering how much of it mi^
be drawn out by his majesty's warrant,
and that the auditors are obliged to admit
of such warrants as sufficient vouchers, I
am surprised to hear it said, that a great
• For the Debates f«lafiii|[ to the main*
tuning Hesiian Tnops in British payf Mt Vol.
8, pp. 8S6, 8«1.
[aN]
mj
15 eSORGE IL
DelmUi mf JiW LimrW$ Motum
rf k iMgr nol bo applM toirtrds
overtnrDiop; our ooaatitatton br comipl
praedee% inaleiid «f buiig apuied, u it
ought, toirards supportiDg tho itonoor aod
digoity of the crown. Coiiflidiriiig the
many pnatences of legal gccrct •errice mo-
ney that may bo mttle by minuten^ the
most circumnect sovereign may be im-
posed on; ana therefove in parUament itia
no derogation to thecbaracter of the Uog
la tieai lua warrants to the Treaaary as we
treat lus speechea to the pariiamen^
Thouf^ the auditora ef the Excheooer are
obliged, as they oo^t to be, to ocniit bis
mi^ty's warrants as sufficient vouchers;
yet in this Hoose we oo^bt to look upon
Ihem as the warrants crf'his ministera, and
oonaequently ought to admit of them no
finther than they appear reasonable. But
what is of much greater force in the pre-
aent question, and I am ^ad the hou*
gentlemail furnished me with an oppor-
tunity to mention it, ia this, it is gcnersdijr
reported without doors, that his mi^eatjF'a
civil Ust revenue is greatly in debt» taafc
9iany of his servants and tradiwrnsn, who
ought to be paid quartsriy at lea^are
abore a twelvemonth in arrears I have
no legal authority for saying so^ and
•very one may guess at the reason why I
have not ; but I can affirm, and, I believe^
most gentlemen in this Hoose know, thai
Hiere is such a report: as this ooncema
the honour and dignity of the crown, thia
report alone obliges us to enquire into it^
if we have a mind to act up to our cha*
lacter aa the grand inquest of the nation.
Even a common inouest does not wait tiU
informers come to tbem: If tfaqr have the
hast intelligenoe of any nuinnce or pinhlie
erime, they send for such peraona aa tbey
think can give information: they cinuniBe
them in llie most solemn ^poanner, and if
Aom thence the intelligenoe they liad» ap-
pears true or probable, they make a j^ce-
ientment, in order for a prosecution*
Has enquiry, even when it goes the length
of a prasentment, is no prosecution : the
pamona accused have still an onportunity
to justify themsdves; and so tbey would
ftnve in case of a parliamentary enquiry,
and even a report against them, whidi
aboold make dl gentleiiien the mere ready
to enter into such enquiry; beoeuiae fre»
^uent enquiriea of tfaia kbd, would take
imy aD hoper of conceahnent, and no
Mneould sufer without hanag an op«
PSMwutj to Justify himself, if innocent.
.9 Wmait nW now appM-, that firom the
fjuomnl report without doon^ and frani
m
the probability as «dl as possihiKtjf tf &e
fact» we have great reason tosospect, iki
the minister, whose conduct ia aov pro*
posod to be enquired intov has^for aeiosl
years, been carrying on a design to oictw
turn our hippy eooititiation, hf tUcgdy
applying all toe ftnrours of the crown, sad
some part of the public atmey, tovar^
gaininga corrupt mfiuenco in parlia&Mat
and at elooHons If this doea net foraoli
vm with ft suffident oanse for asttiog op a
parliamentarv enquvy intohia6Qndiict,B0«
thing ever dia, nothing ever can ; ami m to
tbe preaenttime'sbeingproperfer thatpnr*
pose, I am surprised to hear onrprssent b-
reigo daQgerpeadedasaprotenoa[fordel87«
lag that enquvy, when it is really diestroBg-
est reaaon for enteriiq^ upon it directly.
Willtout auch an enquiry onr govenuaeDt
can recover no coondence wiui our peo-
ple at heme, nor consequently amoBf our
ancient allies abroad; dm roonreiy of
w^ich is absolutely neoeaaary for embliDg
Ui to form anch a confederacv as maj sb*
viate our foreign danger. But, say (p-
Ufitaen, if you enter into auch an eoqairy,
ymM will nave no time to consider, sod
take prober moaaures with regard to ii>
reiga afiars. Sir, in this House, we hsfs
nothing to do with the direction of forei^
a&irs^ mscept when we have such aimn*
tera as have^ by their formier conduct,
shewn they ought not to be tnsted, which
cannot be the case of our now miakten:
on the odtfr hand, those to whan fanms*
jestj^ intrusts the direction of our fordga
aftaoi haivo nodiing or very, little to d»
with the enquiries of this Hous^ uniett
th^ are raaobed to acreen the ffa%>
which, I am aura, none of them wiU me*
tenlto^ or at least apenjy avow ;lhccenii«^
those two affiura can norther interfore dot
intsrrapt one another ; and, I believe, tbe
siypKes necessary for carrying iatoexe*
cntion the foreign meaaotes ms mqestf
may resolve on, will be asoio rtadilj
agreed to in Uus Hoose, and mare cheer*
fudly advanced by the people^ M k he
foun^ that we are in earnest, and Ksobed
to gd thnxf^ wkh an enquney: wberei%
the granting of tfaam wiU otlmranse meet
with ^relit obstructions in this Hoase, and
the raising of them with great grambluigs
among die people ; so tlmt if we have a
mind to save tune with regard ta our fo-
re^ affiurs, we ought to enter iata the
enquiry now proposed, because^ in etay
odier reqpect, it will make the ^liebon-
ncBs go on without interroplioo, eidier
within dooca or. withouc
S40]
Jkrti Cammklte ^Imquay.
A.D. iim.
C58t
ToDSi wtf €voiy ■TgiuneDt that hBS
isMced agaiatt. Ae motion now
beRm jn^ appcaiSy upon due eonsideni-
tioa, to lis an argumani in its finrour.
Thsiiaiyafniioa: I hopa, I have Aeam
tafideal ground for it, and theiidSore» I
flfaaQ noit heartily concur with the adble
lord in hii motioiL
Mr. Coh :
Sir; ai I never Jiad any tham in
the oondaotof our public affidrs, it cannot
be aoppoKdy that I hare any reatoa, upon
my ovaaeoounty for opposing an enquury ;
and m I have but lately come into me
woridy and cannot pretend to be much
aofuidnted witli the nature of state aitain»
It is with great diffidenoe I o&r to give
ay opjnian in a question of nich import*
aace; e^MUly when I see eo asanr gen*
tenen, whose judgment and candoar I
am so wd cmmnoed of, declare against
tlie opmion I am to gm. If I thought
theie was at pteaent any just cause lor an
caqairy of any land, and that the piesent
18 a proper time for it, I am sure no gen*
tZeaan cmsU more haartSy eaocar hi this
aiotion dnm I ahonld; bot after all that
his been aaid in this, and former debates
<m the same subject, I most freely de-
one, that, ia ssy opiaion, we have no lost
cBose li» an enquiry of any icind; and, I
tlaik,aB enquiry at this critical time could
ksttended with nobeneit, and mi|^tbe
the cease of inevitsble ruin to our country.
ToeMapioienSy monours, or complaints
vUMNit doorS) and the sort «f people
«BQng whom they peevai, are general
hds which can admit of no evidence. We
mght as weH pretend to prove, tUat the
nqoijtyaf the people are of a brown or a
hir complexion. Such fisels must depend
apon eveiy particotar gentleman's own
Mmsnt and kaawMge, and can ncMr
maind with amf wei^ by one gentle-
■IB m ccsmnomgWDOther; therefore I
camot think, that tbare of the peopte
^Hlhoet doors, can ever preperly be made
^sf k this Houreas an argument for
ttcaqaiij. We ought upon aUoeoasiottB
tootsr m»o the reason of things: if the
^toduet of oar public afiinre has
^^mg, no msttar whether it is
vferooyweou^toenqairemtoit
<>>«igh it had bean, and was stiM approved
«f 117 the aentaaiity of people without
^ nmmeasuffeaoftbehwtadmmk-
^"1^ of qnaen Anne were vary genendfy
^n>md«f^, the pmpla, «t leest by
tbflie we ooBsmonly call the mebt Any
centinned to foe so even after hSs late ma*'
jesty's aocesnim; yet, neverthdess, tb0
pamament not only eoauired into those
measures, but impeached or attainted mosi
of the chief ministers. On the other band»
if we think the measures have been right
in the main, we eugfat not to trouble our^
selxes^ or dtsturb.the aatioo,' with an en»
quiry, notwilJbstandinff an]f cfaoiours that
may have been nised a^[iiinsttliem; and
therefore, when an eaqwry is moved fori
WB oug^ never to consider what fe said or
suspected without doors, but what appeam
to us within. .
Gentlemen tell iw, they suspect, that
for aeveral vean past all the favours of the
crown, and laige suras of public moneys
have been applied, towards gaining a con»
rupt infinence in pariiament and at ele^
tiala; but they have ofiered no proof nor
any one foct as a foundation for this sua*
pidoB, except that of his majesty's dispbo^
mg two or three officers in his army ; and
even in this case, they do not- positively
assert, that there officers were displaced
for opposing the kin^s measures in pai^
iiament, or that this was ever given as a
reason either by the kmg or bv any of hb
ministen. Sir, would you take from the
crown the power of pr^Serring or cashier*
ing officers in the army f Ifyoudo,Iam
sure, you wiU soon have neither obedience
nor discipline in your army* Nay,
general officer of ^ereat credit in the army
might very prebalMy, in a short ^ '
up a military government. I cannot there-
fore think, tmit gentlemen design to take
firom the crown die absolute power of pre-
ferring or cashiering the officers of our
army, and yet this would be the certain
oensequenoe of making such a foct as this
the foundation of a paniamentary enqaiiy
into the conduct of any minister.
I must therefore think, that, whatever
gentlemen may m this care suspect, thmr
so^eion is without fonndation; and with
regard to the disposal of public money, it
is still more ^roandlem; for here th^
have not mentioned so much as one &c^
no, nor the least particular ciroumstane^
whereon such a sitspidan as theypretend
to have, can be founded; and from the
nature oifthmgs it is, himyopmion, evi-
dent, that no such thiimcan be practised.
The kw passed bat a fow years ago, for
preventmg bribery and oorruption^ ait
^ Fmr the Debate on this Billt whiefa wm
Mssed by a minority of two votcss only, are
VsL6>p.7M.
861] 15 GEORGE IL
•lectionsy has rendered this practice abso-
lately impossible, or at least so dangerous,
tiiat no minister in his senses will attempt
k. By that law, every elector, at every
dection, is to swear, that he has not re-
ceived by himself or by any person in
trust for him, directly or indirectly, any
■urn or sums of money, office, place, or
employment, gift or reward, or any pro-
mise or security for any such, in order to
give his vote at that election ; and if he
swears fiilsly, he thereby incurs the pains
and penalties inflicted by law in cases of
wilful and corrupt perjury. By another
dause in ^e same act, every elector who
shall receive or take any money or other
leward, by way of gift, loan, or other de-
vice, or agree or contract for any money,
gift, office, employment, or other reward
whatsoever, to give his vote, or to forbear
giving his vote at any election; or if
«ny person by himself, or any person em-
|>loyed by him, shall by any gift or re-
ward, or by any promise, agreement or se-
curity for any gift or reward, corrupt, or
procure any ^rson to give his vote, or to
forbear to give his vote at any election;
the offender, that is to say, the corrupter
as well as the corrupted, shall for every
•effience forfeit SOOL besides being for ev^
after disabled to hold any office or fran-
chise. And by a third dause, any offender
i^ainst that act, who shall, within twehe
months, discover and convict any other
vfiender, is himself indemnified and dis-
•cfaaiged from all penalties and disabDities
incumed by his omence against that act.
This, Sir, is the substance of that act :
Ihave not troubled you with having it
tead, because of its having been so latdy
passed ; but as gentleinen seem, in these
our days, to be full of suspidons, if any
one suspects that I have not recited faith-
fiiUy, he may have the act itsdf read at
3rour table ; and from this act I must de-
sire gentlemen to consider, what a condi-
tion a minister would be in, that should at-
tempt to convert the public money, or
.even the offices or employments in the dis-
posd of the crown, towards gaining a cor-
rupt influence at niost of our . decttons.
fie must for this purpose employ a great
aurober of agents and under agents, and all
■of them must be persons of low rank and
»ean conditien; for considering the pe-
Jiahies, no man of* character : or fortune
would be employed. Thus he must per-
-yetually lie- at the mercy of scoundrels,
wbp might obtain an indemnity for them-
sdves, and very prdbably a rhigh rewsard,
D^haU m Lofrd limerkVs Motion
[fiSS
b^ informini^ against him. Istfaisscon-
ditioii any minister of common ssQse weald
chose to be in ? Would it be posaiUefor
hifllkto carry on such a practaee &r anj
number of years, without somoch asoDein-
formation against him or any of his agenti ^
Now, Sir, if the suspidons, uponwhidi,
and upon which done, this motion ii
founded, are themsdves without aoj
foundation, must we not agree, that the
motion' itadfhas no red foundation? And,
consequently, that we have no just cause
for any such eni|uiry as is now propcwed?
For as to the dvil list being under 8a^«
don of debt, we have no call to enqoire
into that affiur till an application be made
to us for supplying the deficiency. Con-
tingencies may run the dvil list revenue
behind hand, but if his majesty is so good
as to resdve to make up the defidency by
a future saving, 1 must think, we have no>
thing to do with it; and if we should en-
quire into it, I think, his noajes^ would be
in the right to insist upon our making the
defidency good, in oiaer to make uipej
for our cffidousness.
But suppose we had good reason tosu-
pect misconduct or miraemeanors in the
fate management of our public aiEiin, die
present would be a very improper time to
enquire into them, because it is impaesSiIe
to enouire into the conduct of any minii-
ter or state, without discovering secrets
which our enemies misht make great use
of asainst us* Even Uie noble had whose
conouct is now proposed to be enquired
into, as one of his majesty's privy council,
must have had some hand at least in sd-
vising most, if not all our foreign measuresi
so that audi a generd enouiry into hii
conduct, as is now proposed, wodd lead
us of course into an enquiry into sll our
late public measures both foreign and do-
mestic. And moreover, by the veiy na-
ture of the office he was in, he must have
had the issuing of all sums applied to se-
cret service, consequently an enquiry into
his conduct wodd necessarily leadus.ioto
an enquiry what sums were issued for that
purpose, when they were issued, and hov
they were applied ; which wodd certainly
discover many of the secrets of our go-
vernment, and such as it might be of gieet
importance to our enemiee to4cnov. for
this reason. Sir, I must be against a gene-
ral enquiry bto the^conductof this or any
other minister of state, at a time when we
are engaged in erne dangerous war, and
upon the.Tcrgey perh^M, of engi^g >■
another*
Jkt a OmmUe^ ^h^fm^*
Its]
To tkoe feMOM I must add, Sir, that^
lAalever oAer «ntIeDien may^tlmik'of
^ tune jgoumA by tiiiBmotioD to be en-
aoired kto^ 1 moft taiiik, it would be very
hud to bring a miniBter to a general ac-
coant for lo many years past, espeoifilly
coDiideriog the many lar^e soma tluit must
bare paned through his bands in that
tioie. As estimates and accounts of all
pablk monies were regulariy delhrerod into
farliaineDt, and those esUmates and ao-
coonts as regulady approved of by par-
litnuiDt, he bid reason to look upon that
appiobition as an annual dischaige ; and
that therefore he had no occasion to be
▼ery exact and carefiil in preserving the
Toiidien,or in making memorandums of
the luea to which those large sums were
R^ectivdy applied; consequently we
must sttppoae, that many of the Touchers
are now lost, and that he has forgot many
public transactions which required a lar^
expeooe. For this reason, I must jom
tith an bon. gentleman who spoke against
thelsst motion of this, nature we hwi be-
fore uf, in thinking, that it would be as
iioiuat to call this mmister. to.a general ac-
count for ten years back, as it would be
to make a steward cokne to a new account,
notwithstanding his having settled his ac-
counts yearly, and ^ delivered up his
Touchers. This, X think, would in private
Kfe be both unjust and oppressive, and as
1 think it would be equally so with regard
toa minister, therefbre I cannot agree to
the motion.
Sir; aa the hon. gentleman, who
^poke latdy ittainst this motion, has not
been long m this House, one oog^t in cha-
nty to bdieve, there is some sincerity in
the pfufessions he makes, of his hieing
readj to agree to a parliamentary enquiry,
«hea he sees cause and a convenient time
fiv it; but. if he knew how often those
prafettions have been made by those who,
vpon all occasions,, have opposed ^^^^
kmd of enquiry, he would save himself the
trouble of makine an^ such, because they
•re believed to be sincere by very few,
within doors or without* He may, it is
tnie, have no occasion, upon his own ac-
count, to be afraid of an enquiry of any
Mrt ; bat nhen a gentleman has contract-
^ a friendship, or any of ^ his near rela-
tions have contracted a (Hendship for one
nho roajT be brought into danger by an
^fory, it is very natural to suppo^* that
"Kh a gcadammr a of^position to an en«
A. D. 174&
[554
quiry does not proceed entueh^ firom mo^*
tives of a public nature ; and if that een-i
tleman Mlows the advice of some of hia
friends, I very much question, if he will
ever see cause, or a convenient time, for*
an enquiry into the late conduct of our
public amiirs. As a jparliamentary en-
quiry must always be rounded upon sus-
picions, and not upon known facts, or ma*
nifest crimes, it wDl always be easy to find
reasons or pretences for averring. those
suspicions to be groundless ; and upon the
principle that a parliamentary enquiry
must necessarily lay open the secrets <» our
government, no time can ever be proper
or convenient for such an enquiry ; oe-
cause it is impossible to suppose a time
when our government can have no secrete,
of importance to the natimi. r
This, Sir, would be a most convenient
doctrine for ministers, because it would,
put an end to all jpadiamentary enquiries
mto the conduct or our public a&irs ; and
therefore, when I hear it urged, and so
much insisted on by a certain set of gen-
tlemen in this Ionise, I must suppose
their hopes to be very extensive : 1 must
suppose them to expect, that they and
their posterity will for ever continue to be
ministers, which, if possible, would be
more fatal to it than toeir having so long
continued to be so. But this doctrine has
been so often contradicted by experience^
that I am surprised to hear gentlemen in-
sist upon it. Even this very session has
aibraed us a convincing proof, how little
foundation there is for saying, that a par-
liamentary enquiry must necessarily dis-.
cover tlK secrets of our government.
Surely, in a war with Spain, which must
be carried on chiefly by sea, if our go-
vernment have any secrets, the lords of
the Admiralty must be entrusted with the
most important of them; yet* we have ia
this very session, and without any secret
committee too, made an enquiry mto the
conduct of the lotds commissioners of our
Admiralty: we have not only enquired
into their conduct, but we have censured
it in such a manner, as has put an end to.
the same commissioners beinff any longer
entrusted with the direction of that branch
of the public business. Has that enquiry
discovered any of the secrets of our go-
vernment? On the contrary, the com-
raittee found they had no occasion to dive
into any of the secrets of our government :
they found cause enough for censure with*
out it; and none of the commissioners
pretended to justify their conduct bjr
15 «BORG£ 11.
I>6ht9 9m LttnlLimmiAh tktum
[aa
This, 8k^iB tokteandio tlroiigapoor
«f tli«M beia^ ao aeoMMiy cMDectiMi bc-
twaen a pciiiMimwH em^uiry aod a dw-
ODvery of ■acrirtu, wliich it behotta the
nation ta caBoaai, that I hope, gantlanw
will no longer inibt apoD this danger as
an argaraeat agaiaet the enquiiy now pro*
posed, wUeh, of all otfaeie, is the Jeait
tUbkB to this ebjeotton. The &8t eon-
niisBiaaer of the Tiaasury has nathiageo
dp wMi the ap^ieation of secret eenrice
ineae«f« he is only to take care, that it be
lagidarly issaed from his ofice, aad that
no more AaH be issaed upon thst head,
than according to the then conjvncture of
aAirs majr seem to be necessary; as to
the particular applieatien, it properiy be-
longs to the secretaires of stale, or such
atner persons as bis maJeMiy shall employ;
so rtiat we cannot suppose, the enquity
proposed wttl dieco^wr any seciali rehting
to the apdicstion of that money, unless
1iiea(Me lord has acted as secretary of
gtate,.as wen as first caaimisotonsr of the
IVeasury, or unless a great pait of the
money, draan out for seoret services, his
been delivered to himself, or to persoas
employed by hhn, and appyed by him or
tfaem towards gainiag a coirapt influence
in pattiament, and at elections. Both
these, indeed, he is most grievously sus-
pected of, and both are secrets wbich it
very raudi behoves him to have concealed,
but it equally behoves the nation to have
Aem bflih revealed. Hts country and he
are, I ehaH grant, in this caose, equally,
though oppositely, concerned; for the
saftty or rain of one or the other depends
upon the ihte of the question ; and, m my
opinion, the violent opposition made to
wis motion^ adds great etrength to the
attnpicion«
I flAiaD admit. Sir, that the noble lord,
whose coaduet is now proposed to be en-
quired into, was one orhis majesty's most
ntm. privy councB, and that conseqoentiy
be must have had a share at least in sdvising
ifi the measures we have pursued both
abroad and at home; but I cannot admit,
that therefore, an enquiiy into his conduct
must necessanly occssion a discovery of
any secrets that may be tif dangerous con-
aeqnence to the nation; because we are
not to enquire into the measures them-
acihee, or into the wisdom or uprightness
of them, and coasequendy, can mnre no
cap to look into any of the goverament^
iUK^ ttMtug to them* Xhle has notfaiog
to do wall aa aaqmry wto li
but tem are sevaml ansasd
abroad selsiing to his ceBiastassfrny
ooaasattar, winoh, if trua» woaUbe tf the
last ioipoitsnae to the nation to hsie dis-
covered* It has been ateeaipy SHsrted,
that he was not only a prisy coiaadlor,
but had usurped the adiek and ssle direc-
tion of his mqeslyfs poiry oeoneB: it fasi
been asseitod that he ^''ve tiie Spanidi
court the fiiat hint of tiie unjdtt daim they
aAerwssds eet up i^sinst our South-Sea
Company, whidb was ona of the chief
causes or the wartietweea thatwonstioos:
aad it has been asserted, that this verj
amnister lias given advice to the French,
what meaiunM to take upon seveial ocos-
sisBS, in order to bring oar oouit into
Aeir measures: partiottlariy, that he ad-
viaed them to send she numerous amy
they have tills last summer sent iato Wen-
phalaa. What truth theee is ia these si-
sertioas, i shall not pretoad to ansver:
the Ihots are of each a natore, and they
must have been pofpetrated widi so nkxnA
cautioa aad secra^, thatit will be dilBeolc
tobring them to light, evmi by a pni&-
mentaiy enquiry; buttheyery ao^jncioD
is ground anowh ibr aettjag up socb
an enquiry^ endror earryingit on with the
utmost strictoem aad vigour; which lesds
me toconsider the cause we now have for
an enquiiT*
Upon tlus aabjeot, Sir, I must say, I an
a good deal earprissd to hear the repre-
sentatives of the people make ao li^t of
the sentiments or suspicions of the peo^e.
That there are suspicions and complamts
among the people, and stnon^ the gene*
rahty or thebest sort ofpeopleis,ltistriie,
alact f^ cannot easily proae against oee
that denies it; no more than we cotdd do,
that tlie generality of our people are of s
fidr or a brown complexion; but if I ahould
say that the mcjonty of our people are
wnitos, I coutd not prove what! asserted,
aad yet I should look upon him as a very
wlumsicri, or a veiy dismgeouous gende-
man, Ihat weald dmf it, and assert thst
the majorl^ of oar people were blacks*
mores. SncaiaotsitishnpoMirietoprovs
any other way but by the opinion of thsse
who are the best judges ; and surely s
counti^r-gMftieman, who lives most psrt
of his time among the people, addhss no
couitfavoura to bestow, as a temptatisn
ftr those he coniP«iees with to dt^ioiie
their sentaoeats, is a better Judge disn
one who seldom stinoat of the punisos of
a cosKt, imdooflMVias wath MSMS but neb
m
Jbr it Comkiitee ^ Inquiry.
A. D* 1742.
[678
4tt oommoii occasions, is by any accident
or negligeaoe exposed to the Suspicion of
■ea not more regarded for their wisdom or
their Tirtue than himself, what most be the
iCste €^ him whom the legLriature of his
coontry thinks the proper object of public
eaquify? How loudly will his enemies
eralt, and how boldly will his accusers
fiiKtell his condemnation ? What clamours
will the artful leaders of the people excite
SniDst himf and how wiaely will the^
^aige be i^read among those whom, per-
haps, the answer may never reach ? It is
not iomossible, that many of those whose
fiieoduiip he has merited by good offices,
vbo hare hitherto adhered to him firom
their opinion of his virtue, may be bribed
to sttack him by the prospect of popu-
Isrity, or frightened into desertion by the
far of falling with him ; and that though
hs ahoold be at last acquitted by his judges,
k nay suffer by his tnai alone, the greatest
«rik mat condemnation can inflict, the loss
tf his reputation and his friends, and be left
hi lolitude and in&my without any conso«
iatioii bat ^bat of innocence.
So formidable are the penalties which a
psdiamentaxy enquiry may inflict, even
upon the man whose conduct shall be
imnd to deserve no censure ; and so un-
bppy may virtue be made by an unrea-
loosble resard to clamours without evi-
nce, ana rumours without an author :
sod I doubt not, therefore, but this House
will meet this motion ; unless some proof
ii produced which may justify suspicion,
srtome crimes are alleged worthy of the
mtional resentment
. In this hope. Sir, I am confirmed by
nflectmg on the present situation of the af-
fiuis of our own nation, and of those round
tdwut us in whose interests we are neces-
mily engaired. When I enquire into our
domestic araurs, I see us engaged in war
seaiost a nation formidable fer the extent
St its dominions, and for the abundance i]i
ill wealth ; and yet more formidable for its
sflisnce with the most powerful nation in
the worid, the ancient and implacable
eoemy of the British nation. I see the
war, though not ignominiously unsjuccess-
Mf jtt m from having produced that
honour or those advantages which were
expected firom it^ and very far from grati-
frmg the people at whose request it was
ttdared, and at whose expence it is car*
ried on; and therefore cannot but think,
Aat it might be more worthy of parlia-
ipeat to enquire by what measures Spaift
najbe humbled, our aavigalioD protected^
tYOJUXIL] *
our losses repaired, and our commerce re-
established ; by what means the American
seas may be opened to our merchants, and
our colonies restored to security, plenty,
and happiness, than how the resentment
of a party may be grattified, or how those
writers who have been engaged by malice,
or by want, to scatter calumny and propa*
gate scurrility, may be secured from the
charge of havine filled the nation with
false alarms, and calumniated a mmistry
by which the public advantage was steadily
pursued.
But, Sir, when I extend my views to the
other nations of Europe, I discover still
more exigences that may justly engage all
that attention which can be spardl from
our own affiurs ; I see the House of Aus*
tria, the ancient ally of this nation, the
House by which the equipoise of power
has been so long maintained, and by
which the liberties of Europe have been
so long defended against the Turks on one
part, and the Frendi on the other, reduced
not to the brink of ruin only, but to the
verge of annihilation ; and the House of
Bourbon, giving laws to all the princes of
the empure, laying the world in desolation
by its armies, and creating new dependen-
cies by the distribution of dominions
among those who will be content to sub-
mit to an universal monarchy ; I see all
the powers of Europe, under the influence
either of infatuation or of terror, connive
at the ravages of these enemies of man-
kind, and desirous not of opposing the
deluge of war, but of tumbg it from them-
selves.
Is this a time of leisure and amusement,
of private prosecutions, and petty animosi-
ties ? Is it not rather an emergence which
re<^uires every hand and everi^ ton^e, in
which every man ought to be ambitious of
distinguishms himself by his actions or his
counsels, and in which everjr man who
can attend to his own private views, ought
to be considered as a public enemy i
For my part, I oppose this motion, as.
others professedly aefend it, upon the
same pnnciples with the former; and am
so far from thinking it necessary, that I
think it necessary to reject it among other
trifling considerations, that we may be at
leisure to reflect upon more momentoua
questions, and examine without that dis-
traction which is produced by a multitude
of objects, how the war agabst Spam may
be most successfully prosecuted, and how
the house of Austria may be restored
to its ancient splendouj: and existed to iti
t3P]
069]
15 6E0&6B IL
of the TVeamiry are opened against a ge*
neral election ? I shall desire no more thanf
that every gentleman who is conscious of
this having been done, either for them or
against them^ would give his vote in *&-
VQur of this motion. Will any gentleman
•aj, this is not a crime, when even private
corruption has such high penalties inflicti^
upon it by express statute? A minister
that commits this crime, and makes use of
the public money for that purpose, adds
thieving and breach of trust to the crime
of corruption ; and as the crime, when
eommittea by him, is of much more dan-
gerous consequence to our constitotimi
Sum when committed by a private man,
it becomes more properly the subject of
a parliamentary enquiry, and ought to be
more severely puniriiecL The hon. gen-
tleman may much more reasonably tell us,
that Porteous was never murdered by the
mob at Edinburgh, because no discovery
of his murderers could chrer yet be made,
notwithstanding the high reward, aa w«U
as pardon o&red, than to tell us, we can-
not suppose that our minister ever, by
himselx or his affent8,'corropted «ii election,
because no information has as yet been
1>rought against him ; for nothing but a
pardon upon ^convicting the offender has
ever Viet been ofered in this case, and how
could any informer expect sudi a pardon,
much less a reward, when he knew that
the very man against whom he was to in-
form, mtd not only the distribution of all
public rewards, but the packing of a jury
or padiament against him ? Sir, whilst
each a minister preserves the ftvour of the
crown, and thereby the exercise of its
power, we can never expect such an in-
nnrmation : even malice itself can never
Sovoke such an information; because,
:e all other sorts of impotent malice, it
wiH rebound upon the heart that con-
ceived it.
This shews the insignificancy of the act
mentioned by the hon. gentieman, with
regard to that sort of corruption which is
properly called bribery; and with re-
gard to the other sort of corruption, which
consists. in giving or taking away those
posts, pensions, or preferments, which
depend upon the aroitrary will of the
crown, this act is still more insignificant ;
because it is not necessary, it would even
be ridiculouain a minister to tell any man,
that he gave or refused him a post, pension,
or preferment, on account of his voting
for or against any ministerial measure in
I or any ministerial candidate at
Dekfte m Lord tdmerkl^s Matim [fgf^
an election. If he makes it hb ooDMaM
rule never to give a post, penaon, or pi^
fermtot, but to those who vote forfajsiiMi.
sures and hiscandidatesj and makeiaftip
ocamples of dismissbg those who lote
otherwise, it will have the same dfecta
when he declares it opaUy. Will m
gratleman say; that this has not been^
practice of the minister whose coodoeti
now proposed to be enqmred into ? Ui
he not declared in the race of this Hosn
that he will continue to noAke tfaiihUpiao
tice ? And will not this have the na
cAect, as if he went sepanitdy soddii
tinctly to every particular man, and Hi
him in exptess terms. Sir, if yoa voleAi
such a measure, or such a ,candidile, j^
shall have the first preferment in the J
of the crown; if you vote odierwiie,)ii|
must not expect to keep what you \m^
Gentlemen may deny the son shineii
noon-daj^, but if they haveanye]rtt,a
do not wilfully diut . them,, or tium AJ
back towards him^ I am sure no oaa «||
believe they are ingenuous in whst M
say ; and therefore, I most think, the haj
gentleman was in the right whoeodii
voured to justify this practice :. it is
more candid than to deny it; hot ai i
argumente hw^ ah^eady been Mj d
swetedf I shall add nothing upoo^
subject. -<
Gentlemen cry out, what! will fi
take from the crown ^e power of |^
forring or cashiering the oS&cen of d
army T No, Sir, this is neither thedsi^
nor will it be the effect of our agreeiif t
this motion. The king has at preeeoti
absolute power of preferriitt or carinoa
the officers of our army, ft is a pree^
tive he may make use offer the bentft^
safety of the public ; but like other pnN
gatives, it may'be nsade a wrong meji
and the minister is BxtswerMe to puKl
ment when it is. When an officer » pa
ferred or cashiered, upon themotirei<
his voting for or against any court meaai
or candidate, it is a wrong use of this prtfl
gative, for which the minister is sanra
able. We may judge ; we mmt jd|
from circumstances or outward sppo^
ances: from these we may condenm;ai
i hope, we have still a power to puniriin
minister ^t shall dare advise tfaekia|l
prefer or cashier upon such a motis
Whether this prerogative ou^ to reotfi
as it is, without any )imitation,i8aqttacio
that has nothing to do in thiftdeb«te;bi
I must observe, that the argument ndl
use of for it, might with equal wqghtb
561]
JifT a ComwnUetqflnftAy.
A. D, 174S.
[562
BodeiDe «f for giving our king an abso-
lute power over every man's property;
for & la^ property will always give the
poasenor a command over a great number
of men, whom he may arm and discipUne
if he {^ses ; 1 know of no law for re-
UnuuDg it : I hope, there never will be
loysoch; and I wish, our gentlemen of
estates would make more use of this power
than they do, because it would contribute
towtrds keeping our domestic as wc^ as
our foreign enemies in awe* For my part,
1 think, a gentleman who has eamea his^
commiasion by his services, ^in his militaix
csptdly, 1 mean) or bougnt it with his
noDcy, has as auich a property in it, as
S07 man has in his estate, and ought to
hare it as well aecured by the laws of his
€SiiQtry : whilst it remains at the absolute
vOlofthe crown, he must be a slave to
the minister, unless he has some other
otateto dopend on; and if the officers of
<mr amy long continue in that state of
iIsTeTy in whi^ they are at present, I am
ainid, it will makedavesof usalL
The only method we have for prevent-
ing this ratal consequence, as the law
WW stands, is to make the best and most
ooostaat use of the power we have, as
nembera of this House, to prevent any
nunister's daring to advise the king to
make a bad use of this prerogative ; and as
there is sodi a strong suspicion, that this
■inister has done so, we ouffht certainly to
inqwre into it, not only ror the sake of
panishifig him, if guilty, but as a terror to
all future ministers.
This, Sir, may therefore be Justly
reckoned among the many other sufficient
causes for the enquiry proposed; and the
nspicton of the ci^ list's* falsing greatly in
debt is another ; for if it is, it must either
ktve been misapplied of profusely thrown
airay,'which it is our duty both to prevent
md punish. It is inconsistent with the
honour of this nation to have our king
itaod indebted to his servaikta or tradesmen,
^ may be ruined by adday of payment :
the parlianient has provided sufficiently
for preventing this dishonour's being
brought upon &e nation ; and if the provi-
Bon we h«re made should foe misapptied or
Mshed, we must supply the ddfeiency,
ve ought to do it, whether the king makes
toy application for that purpose or no ;
ttd the reason is verjr phun, because, as
ve ought first to inquire into the manage-
inent of that revenue, and punish those
^ have occaHoned the deficiesicy, they
vitt oeiiainly <^use t9 teave .the cmlitors
I VOL XII. 3
of the crown, and the honour of the nation
in a state of suffering, rather than advise
the king to make an i^plicatiop which
will bring their conduct into question,
and themselves, probably, to condign
punishment. Beside this, Sir, there is at
present another reason, still stronger for
promoting an enquiry. As there is a great
suspicion, that the public money has been
applied towards corrupting voters at elec-
tions and in parliament, if the civil list be
in debt, it gives reason to presume, tliat
some part ^ this revenue has, under the
pretence of secret service money, been
applied to that wicked purpose.
1 shall conclude. Sir, with a few re*
marks upon the last argument made use of
against the enquirer proposed. It has
been said, that the minister delivered in his
accounts annually; that those accounts
have been annually passed and approved of
by parliament ; and that therefore it would
be unjust to call him now to a general ac«
count, because the vouchers may be notr
lost, or many expensive transactions have
slipt out of his memory. It is true, Sir^
estimates and accounts have been annually
delivered in: the forms of proceeding
made that necessary; but were any of
those estimates or accounts ever properly
enquired into? Were not all questions
for that purpose rejected by the minister's
friends in parliament ? Has not the parlia«
ment always taken them upon trust, and
passed them without exammation? Can
sucli a superficial passing, to call htta
worse, be deemed a reason for not calling
him to a new and general account ? If tha
steward, to an infiinf s estate, should an*
nually, for 20 years together, deliver in his
accounts to the guardians; and if thn
guardians, through negligence, or for a
share of the plun&r, should annually pass
his accounts without any examination, or
at least without any objection, would that
be a reason for sayings that it would be
unjust in the infant to call his steward to
an account when he came of age I £spe«
cially if that steward had built and fiimish*
ed sumptuous palaces, and had, during the
whole time, lived at a mudi greater ex«
pence than his 'visible income could affiird^
and yet, nevertheless had amassed ^reat
riches. The pubhc^ Sir, is always in a
state of infancy; therefore no prescrip*
tion can be pleaded against it, nor even a
general release, if there appears the least
cause tp suspect that it was surreptitiog#ly
obtained: public vouchers ought alwhys
to remain upon record^ nor odght there W
56^1'
15 GSOBfifi' n.
DeMroii Lm^iEhmiciU MaAm
be any pnUicenpeDce witfaoota pBopeSr
voudwc ; therefbre» the case o€ the ptiUio
it. BtOl- strongep tium that of any lofiuitl.
ThuB the hon. gentleineDy who made use of'
this objectian, miut see of how little* avail
it caa be ia the case now before. ii% aiid>
consequently, I hope^ we shall have their
coDcarreooe in the queslaon.
The debate beiog^ orer, the questionr*
was put upon lord Limenckls' Mbeion,
whiehwas carried in the afltrmative; ilyes'
29S, Noes 246.
DBBAon IN THsGaBfiiOKa om^ Loan)
LiMERicK^s Monoir ao& Aviioiirinifci>
A COMMITTXB' TO EmQIUIAV INIO TBB
Covmivcx osp RoBBRT Bari. om QoLnBo*
BuaiVG TOUB LAST Tbht Ybaas : Eronh
Lord Limerick rose andspoke to the fol-
lowing effect :
Sir; ifris a. maxim* often ftqwatsd'
laid genendl^ ieo8i?ed^ that tmtluMid joa**
iBoe wi&rin tinae prevail, that themoil art»-
fid falahoods will be at leB§tb- detected,
and the most powerfiil and' s»nrgasflil»
oryminakhe aft length eapD8ed.ta'puiiiiii>»>
ment.
^ Tfais.Driiiciplej.Sir, is aafteqoentlj vo»*
afied, thatJt aiEnrds sufficientienooiirsae*'
asent fiir a steady assertion, of; tnidi, and ai
ip^oroos proaacution.o£ gnilt; and ougfati
to roiise ua wheneter we peroeive onv^
Mitres te Iai«uish m.the perfonaanoeofi
eurdul!y,.andr excite us: aner diaappoint»-
QMnts and defeats to new efela and more
¥igDrous.nieasares«.
The eflhctsef perseveraaceaad aothrity,
wUch hBfe been hitely. shown, maf anii-
mate thejhopclessi and. awaken the uido«»
knt; they may pTore,.that jwthmgis.im*
pessihie ta industry laboaringinithecflase
of* nrtoe, and that honestendeavova are
asUom. finutrated, but because they am
too aoov relaxed. We^havie seen an»op«>
peakioa,m its beginnme despisedifhr ka
wcaicness, and fbrmidsHe onlr for the
truth of the principles^ upon wUch it was
amyEted);. we have.saen it bafBed, insah*
ef andf cmresmd, yet every dav gaimng
atltangth. byv sbw degrees; we have seen
tfaeoppennu at last by a steady adhe-
aeaeeia the same maxims, and an nnva*
lied, attentian^ to the public happiness^
- - --
* llin Debate wtieompiied i^tUe Cto-
DeniaB'e Vfaganerby Dr. JoAmaim. It is mi-
acMoatsbly omittid mthepnaM'OdUeeliea
ertheDooior?aJleba^
PI
thein aantimealis^ toi Ikrfa^
umftethe nalioni in oB»eause^ohtaia tmn,
joeity in thia/ House,, aadi ferae theism
who iuffiill oonfidencerofi msiittlrmiilai
enoe haa.so* often, deied tlieai,.to%{|«»
fsheiter to the other.
I Blab ifr ia. noir sufficient,. Siiv thsfc ilm
pobliaefliBBay> has > retreated hm\ sanp
usi thaahe ms^ooasedi la Miprnintsnd use
dehatosi. audi dictate oam dedsisBi^ hsi
oi^gbt' tofbe pnrsued before he: raooiHi
t fhm.hia-panic, befaro : he haa tiam tsisi.
-aain hie.inAuance».to nmnhal hia dipm*
denlBi.and farm meaaufeefor efaidngm
Agfearing juslioe?. and tbat«&i& thiM|b
mf fensev mottoa waa reieetedvl damn
dopair of finding.the UBsuaemaKeAsamfc
U« to than wUch^fi have BOW te ofii^ aril
hope; timt those, who- censidBrad as m^
quivy. into the* oendiict ofi our faoeigv
Mid domestic aAim fun 90 jemmm^
preaedantedi and dangenaua, wilL hn»sa
objoEtiaDSiagainstaaa enquicyintodieCo»«
dneUoff Bmiim Learl of Osford^ danngtha
last ten yeasftiui whiofa.heiwaafint Go»
nassiaaM cA the Treasuryv andlOusMd-
ler and^ Under ToBMuert of hie nagei^
Baohequett
In tfaei dahata» which' the .fennamnnte
psBduBed,,no man, however he>nq^Jia
suspected of fearing an«nqniry^ cidHedih
pated the.-right of theparliamenttoeaa-
mine) the oanhict of todae tso wfaamdar
administi9tian.o£affiarsfis eotruatedtfayihi.
orowD^.an denied^ dmt there* warn osok
sions ottT whsch/ that right miidit bepnH
perljT exerted. There is, therefore^nsiiie^
oessity of citing precedents to asesitsm
our authority,. or of showing by citsdoa
fron4iistary, how ofteutthe iatcr|)oaliar
oCpariiameathas cniBhed'the*anibitioR4)l
aspttiag: oppieaaen, .desti'oyndL SGheBKa»rf
fllamy. m their bhrth, and snatched d»
natien ftemdnunment destruction.
The only ob|ection, SSr, which ceaU-ia
my opinion be remoaably supposed toaw
flaaneethis HMae to reie
ttoa^
r^ectthehaesn-
from themultiplieity d the
wouUihavefidtamdai
the consideratioB of ^ commitlae; tbs
length of time whidi the exanunatioa rf
aa many queatMns^ maay of^tiiem in tiMHN
sehneaoomphcated and difficult, would la*
qaiMi dm imenruption which thepriiiis
businam aright suffisr by the carkMi»f>
whichantenqmry BO uuMrtant'waaklflS-'
toiaUy produce ; and* theneossriQr of €»
peauigee Che coannittee thos»<mnisotiias
whsoh thekiterest'of our eoaBitty>aad<4l
hoBoar of mxt saveaaigBi rscniM ^ bv
kept secret.
mi
ibr*
A. 9l tnt.
jm
atere»
mg^fOikntm «mn«ndilieatttl»<of>inir
r, ^kMA ui itfae yrciit «Mrti(m jb
'totelf Ae »tiaieitet MB tefooe
anil fni»8»d >of gfliiyhundipg
_ -^Mkd Aoibestto ttiEuny i
aAite nofdaager of betrmag tfie
40f aifr goveriMMDt, si diactoeing
scdiames 'iiot ^at ripenod tntD
Bj aDOiiking ialo 'the eon-
ta uttiim or tAe Tfaanoy or <Ebi«
««a&^«d)y cxmiiie Imoitlia tppli-
1 «f 4»iir ann mmatfff and into Ibe
la^i^lf ^die fltalBt aJhidhinuiy^iiuniy
to doae ^fMawt Mommgnte'^mnmii
i«f *tlio<dOB%ng 4riuoli cor vadflMhak or f|o-
a0itb4un*e fonnod oflunst ^em.
A MJMiniliiiHiion of (the aioawf fiaatied
AjrficliaiaeBil, <ba omae b^nrfaach no in-
a^eafiaetod bttt aor own ; and
ahe 'deteolton -of ^it can fnrodaoe
i flmoog^onigntpoaoK ; Ibut
<fc4iA«eiane «f Itejaioitaaayaima kind,
ai its laaaugwinoeg aia lin the highetft
4^paB dangavonsy'aBittUHidft to tke over-
iloow af 4>iBryriwlego8, and die ^listnM-
thnaf aoraoMtkmton ; as 4t mitttipro-
figMe cofgaptionflMnoag the pDO|ile» and
produce dependence a^ pvomatian in
aariiUBOBl;. It is a crtme aMofa eannot
aeHXNunitiod without dnwing after ha
40Bf;amiaaf wiokadaoM^ aad flliog tbe
a*oniwitti-MNRi€heryi hmmy^ periaryy
Ml fiMtiOB.
AHihe l]iitotfiesofdl4l» aottoiMof the
atttb will ittfonnas» that liber^aaa only
htw/hMbf vktm^ and daft no feople
ilbr«tfaoiroo0tinflacewaB ooanwOed with
laajBryandapmwoe, and their fjuolienirit
aMfaelod -if aeHMi incMaaaoas, Jong
atMHrned^oteastiofifTeedoak Haw, in.
^mii aaajtbeeapefttody^het^thaaetato
4m%%eea long acoiwtoawd to ohooiea
fMM^t giarificaion ia'prolfevenoe to 4he
fmneit distant good, and lana 4earttod a»
vrtiaai dMrfr. reputation or dignllijr for no
ailar aeoam tnanasitinagr anabie ^ham
to let their favour at ahigher prine,dMMdd
«Mft their 4ibor^ aay longor than tiU
<»f eaafcdootte oaportiaitaraf gratify-
4tt|% the 8ile of Jt ttleir awrioe or anhi-
msofiiharhig the weakh of oppraeuoa,
tud«e<piide<lf4yianiiy?
At he, thorcihHc, who>ooivi^^ llie peo-
'itfia^ 4>e no leM joiitly aeotaod of on-
4
dho^ged wiA aubfiertiBira.hMiU*
a^i who ttakae iwrny the cokunaa wUdi
lauppottdt^ mt thiB method of oaanibtian
aainnet<dangeiaus» beeanae it inunadKael|r
ctinds'*»)taint Ahe JogidatuBe and ennnrate
4he 'oanstitdticBL; Sad as it is acanaal^
•adodbted, but that it has teen frequent!^
•maotind during ifhe kte administration,
.InMnay ** Xhet a Conaaiftlee beappointHl
ao saquiieinto the eondnot df air Baberft
Wfdpole, aow Earl ai Ocford, .during the
Jaat ten lyeaak''
Sir John St AtSnn :
Sir; i hope jma willforgire oiey if
i Aink it my doi^ to nse uptoneo nmioiin
ibafaalf of the ]peopie» to secoada propaii-
ition-fbr enqouy, <aad I .could wish, thot
foaner defiaatsAsdiaet aaade itaaoeaMiy
tDjpomtitvinso^pavticuiaraBManar. JBat
m igenand. enquiry has ifaaen denied; we
: aee .aow jodueed So the aoeosstor af con-
•fim^g Jt to ana .oUaot:; and anae iul in
.this, idltfae4)aoBBaf«njBhy wiU jieahnt
against us. USie Amphes .mdeed wiH te
•gnuitedy bnt national .grfaiBnoeBineatt^^ •
uaredmsGod.
iltds as little Rearing ito ase -as^toany
-^ndeman in tms fiowM^ ito^be ai^giE^^
-m afpeiBonalaaotioki ; batwtenlciainigar
:this noble casl as ttesuspected author af
national oalamzty; whennothing'isdkflired
but a £nr enquiry into liia taoadaoty Sonai*
ai&st his innocence, ar detect his^geilt;
whaa nnttters are aniTed at din pomt,
that there is an opea (camest iietweeaiiin
and the peopde; when the laws of my
ooBBtiy, the «ight of iiarliaBBenlKry' en-
quiry, are to be suspended 4jo aoaer^his ae-
•tmat; it is, I think, no loa^r a jpessonal
imolBoa : at js a pubhc question, jd adiioh
'periiaps'die iete of aur constatwtinn :isaB-
vakai Jf iie was umted to naeihy the
closest tiea of long intaaacy and aoateal
taiSBOtian,' I wauUT aacndce my
vfriendshiptepoUkapirit, and to j
liat in every conaHlemtian of -dns kiiri^
great terrors hare heen raiaed at the men-
<ienafa Secret ComaBttee. It is caliad
a most dangerous delegation ; and to in-
timidate the assertors of justice it is re-
presented so formidable, as Ip be Ale to
aoatroul that veryiboikfiani educh it de-
aiess its powen; aaa foreiga eaaaiples
^aie paoduoed,ao ways siaulat, aader dlf-
^fhrent constitatioaa, to sappoat this afle*
^puion. It hv been caliea a osaaoittaa
of aocusatioay trial and iodbment*
^9ttt> 4Biri it is a GODStitattonil apaoiBl*
66TI
15 GEORGE II.
DebaU on L&fdUmiridfi Motion
ment, always practised when h^h oKnden
are to be called to justice. The noUe
earl himself has been the great patron of
BQCh appointments. It is a committee
of enquiry which is only to proceed no
farther than the extent of their commis-
sion, revocable at your pleasure. It is
only to collect and digest the materials
.of evidence, to produce facts supported
foy such evidence, facts afterwards to be
canvassed, to undergo a strict examina-
tion in the House, before you will found
upon them a vote of accusation.
You yourselves are but accusers, and
your accusations must be carried to an
higher assembly for trial and judgment.
And it will not be an enquiry into slight
.facts, every little error, of administration
which human prudence could not prevent,
where the party accused may be unable to
recollect the articles of his defence ; but
into facts of an high and enormous nature ;
the loss of national honour, public griev-
ances, premeditated schemes of corruption,
to render the independent branches of our
constitution subservient to a dictatorial
power; a power unknown to our laws,
and necessarily destructive to the liberties
of the people ; a power which must be re-
strained at this time by a strict and eflec-
' tual enquiry, or, give me leave to say, it
will tie impracticable for any new adminis-
tration to carry on this government with
reputation and honour. Tliey must have
reputation, they must have confidence.
Mankind are well inclined to trust them,
nor do I fear but they will deserve con-
fidence, and then they need not doubt of
authority and support.
But first the nation must have this as-
surance, thia earnest, that it is to be an
administration of government, not a con-
tinuation of one and the same scheme
of ministerial power; an administration
founded upon the constitution, which I
understand to be that wide, that extended
basis upon which only it can stand secure.
With this view it is, that the nation ex-
pects an enquiry, and surely no man will
decline your enquiry, who does not fear
your justice.
Mr. Pitt :
Sir ; though I think this motion so
evidently just in itself and so seasonable m
the present situation of our affairs, that no
•explanation can illustrate it, nor any ar-
guments enforce it; and tliough I think
tiie chief questions that can arise suffici-
ently discuss^ in the debate which vas
m
produced by the motion for an Eoquj
into the conduct of our afiirs fiyr Twesiv
Years, and which certainly cannot yeitt
forgotten by any whoae memona ut
not regulated by their interest; yet I
cannot forbear to rise up in its viodicatioo.
I do not, indeed^ rise with any hope tf
adding new strength to the argiimmis
which this House has lately heud, nor
.should I think such an.attraipt very ne-
cessary, though I had an higher opioioB
of my own capacity, and by consequeooe
greater hopes of succeeding in it; £vi
have always thought and frequently is-
dared, that those who opposed that mo-
tion, and who have always defended tk
measures of. which that was intended to
g remote an examination, are to be gsioei
y other motives than arguments dnnm
from public considefations. I have fron
the most impartial examination of tbcjr
tenets, and tue most exact observation of
their conduct, been induced to bdier^!
that the happiness of their country, ike
security of uberty, the promotion of vir-
tue, and thei honour of the king, hdd
but the second place in their regard, sad
that their chief view is to preserve their ,
salaries or to encrease them» to suppoit
that power by whidi themselves are sop-
ported, and to enlarge that revenue by,
which their own luxury uid extravi^gaoce
are supplied.
To reason with men like these, Sir, is
a vexatious task ; it is sufficiently difficult
to persuade any man whose intellects have
been studiously depraved, wlio has long
employed all tne arts of sophistry againtt
himself, and endeavoured to bdieve, in
opposition to evidence, what he hai
obliged himself to assert ; but it is yet
more' difficult to prevail upon such a nia&
to acknowledge his conviction, to reqanta
long series of absurdities and fidshoodt^
and to confess by a change of cooducl,
that he has been hitherto acting either
without consideration or upon mqtivci
which he dares not own. Men bycoa-
tinual struggles against truth depnie
equally their morals and their reason, the)r
become incapable of discovering tight, and
unwilling to practise it.
Yet it is not wholly useless to confute
absurd assertions, or to cenwre wicked
measures ; for though it may with reason
be feared, that there are some too &r adr
vanced in obstinacy to be recalled by tbe
voice of truth and of justice; yet it may
be easily conqluded, that there areothen
who are led by the authority of jpA
569]
/0^ a CaMiiUee oftnquirjf: A. D. 174£
[aw
umeiy or deceived hj ftbe repreKnta^
tkns; Uiat diere are some yet andeter-
Duned in tlieir epinioD^ and perbi^s afenr
reaUy denroos of doing justice and .dis-
coTering tmth,. striving against the pre-
judices of education and ue influence of
exsmpley and whose choice is perplexed
and luidentanding darkened .by the cor*
raption of others rather than their own.
To these it will be always proper to show
the true interest of their country in die
fitroDgeit light, to disentangle the in-
tricacies of state sophistry^ and to explain
the true principles of government, ana the
particular tendency of all those measures
which are proposed, that they may be
rescued from the snares of corruption, and
confinned in their fiddity to the public.
Even <m those who have nardened
thenuelves in opposition to their own con-
sciencesy by a long course of implicit ap-
probstioD and unlimited submission, reason
ttnot always without effiect ; for it is some-
times known, that shame remains where
virtoe is lost, that those who are content
to purchase wealth and titles by the
ruio of their countiy, are yet unwilling to
give up for them their claim to penetra-
tion and discernment; there are men
whom public hatred affects less sensibly
than public contem]>t, and who would ra-
tber be convicted of a crime than charged
vith an absurdity.
These men have been sometimes obliged
to abandon their cause in &vour of their
intellects; Uieir master, accustomed to
obedience, has sometimes ventured to task
them too rieorously, he has condemned
them to drudgery which could not be per-
fonned without exoosing them to universal
reproach, and laia bunhens of absurdity
upon them which common reason forced
them to shake off.
There is yet another reason why the
slaves of the ministry should be reasoned
^th,even when there is little hope of con-
verting them. The nation has been long
accustomed to distinguish between ma-
jority of numbers and superiority of argu-
ment, and to enouire, not whether any
position has received the sanction of a
Plurality of vmces, which in former par-
^eots was dways foreknown, but by
J^hom it was most warmly opposed, and
"^ great a number dissented irom it.
I hope, indeed, that I have at length
iired to see the time in which parlia-
^t shall regain its ancient authority,
«bea this Hous^ shall be considered as the
^ ^eseotative of the peqple, «nd when
the. laws shdl be agftin
from veneration thiui from fear: but to
obtain this blessii^, which surely is the
chief end of government, a^d without
which nmther wealth nor plenty, nor suc-
cess in war, nor the security of peace, can
make a nation luqppy, it is necessary to
enquire into the caiuiMS of our long con^
tinned calamities, and to discover front
what sources that corruption proceeded
which has for many years overflowed oar
country, to which the pariiament and
people equally gave way, and against
which it was to no purpose that either re-
monstrances or complaints have been
hitherto opposed.
It is universally known, that the chief
care of the public treasure has been long
committed to the man whose conduct it is
now thought necessary to examine: this
will not be denied even by those who make
no scruple to call in question what eveir
man in the nation knew, who had no prt'-
vate > reasons to dissemble it, proclaim»l,
that he had assumed the authority of prime
minister. It is well known, that money is
the great instrument of corruption, and
therefore it is reasonable to suspect that he
who distributed tlie treasure of the na-
tion, himself prescribed the conditions on
which it was bestowed, and dictated
those measures which it was his province
to reward.
That he was, indeed, the principal con^
ductor of this hateful traffic, that tiie pur-
chase of votes was made by himself, and
that the pensions or preferments which
were enjoyed as the hire of wickedness de-
pended on his favour, and were transferred
by his nod, can hardly be doubted by those
who have seen the universal submission
which he has exacted from all the de-
pendents of the court, or heard with what
veneration his name has been whispered
round a circle of his slaves, and with what
zeal every man, who possessed a nubile
employment, declared himself reaay to
promote his interest, and assist his de-
signs.
It is therefore probable, that by an en-
quiry into his conauct, the whole system of
corruption will be laid open, and that we
shall be id>le to trace through aU its con-
catenations that wickedness by which our
country has been despoiled of its honours,
and plundered of its wealth, that wicked-
ss by which our arms have been dis-
graced, our cmnmerce interrupted, and
what is yet more dreadful, our morals de-
praved ; that we shall detect bribery de«
M AEdBOB U.
4hB yublic
mi]
teppioRiaKy irtni Hiie ,
snmndedAiDf pmrnrnti'^Siicea of «tale,ito
4iie wroigeinan distaiiai; ^Iitio8«iiiid0t'a
ifldb^Nngr of inocbaiiict*«liom hedelMiiflbm
•viee or UcMnasler^intiitlie tflflus vMah he
«ii^ fas ban 4k
iidMohyiiiiiMiMiflfa>ibrMBttyyi»tj
' t^tOm iiiimianeti
1 4o quot 4cHilit 4)ilt tfik firnmintiwi
(MUjproiP»,4hat(4Mirfof0i^ trade waBooiy
iHg]«eted» tliflt ifa ninitler -nigbt inpwe
ihMttie to efllsbUsh a 'new kind of ioom-
•neree'; jaadbalievefttuit when «U the se-
iCMte of his MfMspondenoe aEeWd*o)i«Q,
the trade of j;overament wiMnoloi^or «re-
cqube mxy groat ^oaf aeitjr, ifao «prioa of>
^very^ oarfioe miSL -ikon :be known, die
Mtot of ^ODBtant aohdof oooattonai'oom*
friiaaoOytiiO'Vidtie of passive aSenoe, and
jof ^oaafident haiangoe, of ooaaonalde 4di-
oeoce^and of hM jwdfioalioa, iwUtlien
•be.a^uotoa. JLmey men wfll ibr Hr la-
«to«e know hoarto rale his own ifBfortaaoey
itoai a fveeb<^der'to «>moiiibor*of|MifliB-
•nmt, and wiiU be able to tell hor nodh
this jpnce48 enfaenoed b¥ any length «f -op-
ipositiony'andho^muohhe may^danffor
4ddingto theireight of his ▼ototheaeal
4)fa«prosidyte.
There is surely no price «t whk^h sadi
4ik»orerie8*as these ought «ot to be pur-
diased ; discoveries of equal iasportanee
to those mk9 are desirous of Sharing the
tikmder of their ooaatryy and tfiose-a^io
wsiie tO|yrevpnt'it4irom being plundered';
atad to a^hioh I faope^ahofefore, ainee ei^y
SMSibei' of this Haass *KittBt >he .oompre-
•lended in those &<ro 'dasses, that ^no op>-
fosition win be«Mide.
What are4lie 'reasons lor -which I'sas-
fOct«orraptionhas%eoB'SO indostmusly
oaapleyedy «o widely disseflainaaed, said so
•jeoonrtcfy regulated, I suppose no nan
will think it woooosaryto en^re-; oit'kast
f can oKpeet no such «ueslaon from 'any
nan who feBiend)erB the tnmsaotionsoif
iSie last ten years, who faaows, that *merj
question was determined before it wasifis-
oossed ; ond tfiatthe fhte^f e^Fery motion
was known before k was proposed ; that
tiw freal^ 4MVt Hi those who aospsssed
aalanes or places avowed no other |iiitt«
Oiples tfian ttiat of supporting fhe miniB-
•er; and that the least deviation froaihis'
aacPBci maDoaces was nnmeaiave^f fl^Bnsn* •
«d widi forfieitures and 'penslties, witii a
Srivation of all present enployteents, •
an exiflusion mm iffi fotaie hopes,!
without the strongest predbtf ««dispesi<'{
tion to constant compliauce.
«in^anan,iinr aduoh the^wiMntkMj
ade clMso<as«B anoidians 4f thsa £
£«, toi» bosn Siua^
npeaspBss by whiuhwlaswy i
iaarodaced. 9Niose who <
pasleet oar ipiMlegos «mDe<iacitodtsA
tray sheBi,4iy die pvaqftedtoMaM^
*ssiv«s in <tha ipieasares oftjaanay;^
those who lapsoe ^iqpwiiniatt to anal
ovcvydiftaaMd upon jtie piddic,tepe^
bribed te iMtsdiea A tsftb s«a;(ina;4
tastog their tpensionsfeBCssasediinfMB
tioD as they ooMriaad ^<flH the tlNiai
)by newtaasss*
This^t leeat has »boenioag dKsM
af «psry wise and lioaast man; iomI
tharaiDve, time by« aigjorous aaddiy
<oaquiry, 'eilher to fUMh 4>r«(HpM|
a^ 4ula been so long'saspuetfld, srtil
idbetiation fieelfeom « general dshaiga^
JSir Wmiam Yonge : ]
Sir; thatlittle «an bessid «ji
•tifictttiion af this moiioii which ana
tagad in 'favour «f the fonneris, Lbdii^
tsne ; since if any tUng new ooiddlM
beenOTodacod, itaai^^ie ssassaaUfl
Ueaea, that the aame inaaocivsBwaolda
teve -botn so 4Mion repeated, and ttiift^
should have heard aqgumeatt«alei4)
jdedamalions.
The genttsnssn trho qidke Jsit^t
f leaosd to assart» 4hBt ithisanotisD a!|i||
)ust«andaaasoiMMe; and^tbassfaei
'ought to >be oomplied wtdi; t>at, i
since )be osaihssos, that it 'is « <
aeariy of AaMHaneJriad widi duti
'aws so 9atriy sef eoted, lie^doeinsttaill
thsa«so Mttdi aaaowBteshouM be pMll
his opinion unsupported by<e«idaMt4
V8BS0B, asthat^this lioasashoayiwirij
pova whatafewjdi^ ago dwythwi||l
iMpropai;, ualess some new aigaamaa
fpodaoed to Kdmngs thoir seaHoMai; m
fhaislbretia ought not toteveosHiasi
hhnself with amwrting what wasprisdta^
to4)epaoaod.
if the aagoments whi<A weie md «
'wia mMwBbi' cacasion
aie of sqadlstiti
Avour of tfiiStne<ion,itaMywi*«aHl
-be imMhMdj that the mgaaiaiitB by stM
thedeftBders <tf the hao OMiiQB a«K Ab
feated^asgrbe agahi uMd agaiatttlKii;
and aoay f«riuqps now prsdaoe Aetai
That'dds motion. Sir, it skknrisii
orsoasontfAo aatttes-basatsMMM,!
J^ dtflawwarirgfjHyHiiy
JL1f.VHk
II9M
fOTif die oiDane YiiudbfaaB bean m
nenUj bestoiped; upooteU Aqk- win
iirMlhiato-approfed'theiiieflBiiree of
nifeRUBeii^.«kd>end08Voured ti> showv-
^lOwftjr BiOMMiiim^wilb aUegianaev
rillMfe»to FtM>r*«the happinett of the>
w^^ w net alwwi) necessary teob^
■Ki die teigDB. of' tie cMiit.*
|lJM»neiier jet been tHoe§lll • moef of
pgpdnev ef » caun^ ihetalaBderaed
IPitdt have- been* made: uar otf to- tup*
1^ i& It ba»geiieraU|i beevnaesionly.
^Mk ia dbleter standcwitteut Ihe ai#
Miaorrf artifice^ffid reamdenMrodf
libtldMdrwithoatpaejudioe oaiMMfeiov;;
MlooMeqoentfy Aon: wiio> ooitdemn tbef
iWplai ef theitradramncv beave iibaffi
^tim ibeir eetions, and wboeadaavour
toil tfaepublio with.leodfbaert»afi
jlMBB buegnty^ and pathettcal^kaelafa*'
laatf dw contemptof mimeyr ofltfaeir
rt fiir tbr pofaKchappincfl^ and dMr
idudoBtlo adbeeatortbe inteeeslceC d»)
tfMa.iB the nddil ofi dlaeoMragaaientlr:
AtaapiBtiena^ baea byr tbeiwiaeit'paEt)
fi0ipeopl» been abvayi 8Qq[|eoled/ of
Mntitah pnafenionai and oB iodine*
EitdMnmdiae theBUKlireatbgr the. Mi
WMMnmoan theV' ODpoaat
ilat-^mr patriotic ^ bate'flot ooatent*
I dmHlsea ^ntii enooBOBinAB on the
bitf ofidieir oaia heafli^tbe fedbude ef .
■r iat«itioM^4)r the ftnoaof tfaaitr abai«
la; thaphBTO^nottfaoiishtitadiicientto
IdldienMebmudeBi^ey. liJniriie de^
w\ ii»hatcverqaeUtie% tbere*>
diey tbcmghtitnaceiniy toiaaaribe;
lifeai^y judged^it ooovenient'to
'totereqf^odiea peieon, and notrflelii»
lilbbeing wiaftandtercve«nd viituens)
litkaaBiW'deflfee witii otbersk ^hey have
rimy7ea»aMmmfeadevecyi
edkajoa^ a^d left na chetce t» tfioie*
b hate praMunad fie diffbr frem ttaeea,.
INif Mfy or corroptioii^ of igaoteaee or>
hn|Bdof the tfue iatereit of our oouB-
nor abUndflabBinMm to the dhsttrtaiQ^
ttaBDiUfliV- ^ • perfidaeitt pnoatitslion'
KUnriotaaibr power andifor imdthi
ftidiaraiaieiniiiectiveB, Siiv wUoh iiMi»
■MneAjndincry they haive from yeertei
lar fcattaied over the nation ; bytheea)
hf have penoaded the eiiedoloi» aod>
mi, among thoea wtaoae state of ]Mb>
him. tbam ftom obtaininr aay^ knen^
Mgi of jsiiUio meaaareii that tiiey wl»
M IB fflility maat aiudious' of their hefN*-
ttcHi they whose conatana eedeevoiir it^
iiii«^k4)eant»;preaerve oea ocMMtku*
ttemmiirielaledi aald>to aeeiarte tfe pio»r
aentnjal&niily adioipoanMioitof tfa*
Aaene^ werethe hirelinge ef aMn co««
hineiifiir the dBatoeatieieof fteedttn^ tii«
skiveeof eaiieiaserwfaeie>orijr tienrwes-too
perpaauete hia* po«»er« Bir tfakne^ plun^
deMv a* ^07 <vo told}.al& thr peofitt o0
their eoauneroe waa amesfaask otot of ttoir
hands; by these oppressors, ti^ns wwm
loaded' wUs inueessarreoDacims;. and
hannased wkb standing troepB^whese veal
use-wea tetewer thaan nito' mfr^itnieH- %9
tfrnaaayy aitti tor ettteoe the^ ekedotioiiLoft
onud'Jsiipa^ te aii^riiiiead*the^iefliteiiapei0
Br sindi' eaebnnattotia aa* Asse^
dsiildiy^ veatad and inoeasaiitljF wfem^
[waasf y parhaps^Jiawrebeairinti'
pHBsnilt ofl namsorovwUdi 1
iapprase<fc; soaseilun
nrasllie aoAe latenbdengeirwhiiiikilief dS*
net fbeaaae^ ot sdBBe>sec»<i watWnirtdny
whkkfdnjf^hsidaot deaKMed,aNnktiuR aoelb
tdieaseut onldriereooid net be^eonlsMii
wBtfaoutisome seaifiajwyeidieffsefteed cw^
threatened; others^ padu^a^ menu sHgv^
oioM^ bnt* lesai sinoeBe^^ w^^ jeiU' in
tbe^ oay niiant it- b^gaflP to be' edMBd^Myk
the pisepleffnons tfaBrnotmel desiffs ef tnn*-
petatSoni aadfapfdaasBy and>eottir»thosiiP
opninnBi by. tneir stiftageB^ ^MtitP-iSkoj^
cotddiioti oppose^tixRit tfae^ dIsediMlBaMa
of singttlBBit^.end the^ danaett of »«!»••
plyfa* tim^eiiamieaJ and aUensMig diMe*
mendm
'Ilieeuooeasioflliesa'SBtB^haB^enooiitiigi'-
ed:tfaeAveuienro0tbai«itiiNi^ neimtidlfr
oer oooeideiaiion^ datfy.themoeoe aiere^
tUose wiMHui their afgnmenta cannot gitfd^
a»B^ tlierefeie» to'bet sepmenied m mafy
not. desireiB' of^ diwaeaiiiigtrtitft, ifetineflf^
who hare perideioaA^tiieir undHetandingM
bythein own aephistiieajandtwhoai «»Iong
0011180' of nbemlensAy wiok^dneBS haa«
hapdened agAist- cee?Maii<{ and tklef
hspe^ that no nBri#ill'be)so>haidyas'M*
riae up in- definmse of cenaunBa'SO aererei
and dedase hinwatf aft «dvetany>tto'a*nio^
tieiBoffeiedi^aBditlndieatad; by the meri^
whohrtirediBlfaigvislttd'thenaNsb^ iff tflii'
Gomipii ape, asi the only loverir of tiMr
atidiiiBeadheftmia<tD deaertedhtnidi.
But ie baa^been very* common ameng'
tham^ BfetwMaBaarilnffthat heif^t of po^
IMoBtwMotii atwMdi they haveartived^
.to<fbfin.oMiiiertoal(hepesj and te be o««f«-*
tBRMVPafiiPtney naeeieiitai e'i tmiimai '
what nmy'lie'Uidf>ilNrott>tiie«|»i«Benroek»
c«rioa^IianPiioraMe»to«»M^ tM^sMMP
ISGEORGE'U.
»75].
make no icniple to dedare, that if their
declamations produce on others no greater
offectB than up<Mi me, they hare been only
shot scattered in the air, that have fallen to
Uie ground without use and without re*
gard; for I am yet hardy enough to affirm,
thaty in my opinion, the motion b neither
just in itsetfy nor proper in the present state
of our affiurs.
In examining the justice of this motion,
I am very far from intending to question,
whether parliament has a right to en-
quire into the conduct of afl»irs or the
cufttribution of money; this is, indeed, a
right incontestible and sacred, the ibunda-
tion of all other rights, and the palladium
of our constitution: it was by the timely
exertion, of this great privilege, that our
ancestors have been so oflen in former
i^ges rescued from destruction, aud by this
our poAerity must preserve that liberty
whiiin we shall not doubt to transmit to
them without violation ; unless measures
are pursued very different from those of
the minister whose conduct we are now
called upon to examine.
But the exertion of this privilege, which
is the last effort of our constitution, ought
not, in my opinion, to be proposed on
common occasions ; for the decision of dis-
putable questions, or the redress of trifling
grievances, which may be remedied with-
out the solemnity of a parliamentary en-
quiry, and without the universal akfm
which proceedings so awful spread over the
nation* The crimes which engage par-
liament in their detection ought to be pub-
lic and enormous, they oumt to be such
as endanger the comiQonw^aldi^ and whidi
cannot be lefl unpunished without inciting
others to the same corruption by the pros-
pect of the same impunity.
That the veneraUon due to the legisla^
ture should be very solicitously preserved
will, I suppose. Sir, be denied by no man,
who consioers, that obedience of the many
to the few can last no longer than respect ;
and as in private life the man who disturbs
his friends with loud outcries and violent
efforts on trifling occasions, never fails to
become contemptible, and to want that
assistance in real perplexity and distress,
which )ie used so earnestly to request
without necessity : so in die transaction of
public affairs, if the parliament enmloys its
utmost power, and asserts its hignest pri-
vileges only to gratify resentment, or to
punish casual negligence or pet^ miscar-
riages, the most solemn act of the legishi-
t\ure may in^time be ooosideired as an
Debate en Lord LimeruJ^s Maikn
0S7
empty form, and will neither Mori av
security to the nation, nor produce iv
terror m wicked ministers.
In most forms of |^ovemment, there i
some power whidi is never exerted bi
upon tne most pressing emergences, ion
office which is never erected but wlusn tk
public is in real danger, and some reu
to which no application is made till era
other expedient has failed ; and by thei
great advantages are ofien procured, m
a&irs retriev^ from a state almost deip
rate, because they are never prostititft
for petty purposes; and when th^ a
thought necessary, every man is con?i]icc
that danger is at hand, and incited bj h
regard to his own safety, to contribute li
utmost endeavours to that of the public;
Such among us is the enquiry that i
•proposed by this motion, which pradeoa
therefore, airects us to reject as oispropei
tioned to the occasion : for what crimei
there chaived with any appearance of ja
tice upon the noble person that can reasn
ably raise an alarm of danger intheoadtt
or incite parliament to a formal enqiiiri;
Among all the invectives that artific
has invented or malice uttered agaia
him, I remember none which could jiad
be considered as important enough to m
gage the attention of this House, orDok
but what he has on some occasion M
confuted; and, therefore, as I cannot thai
the motion prudent with regard to them
tion; in which it must necessarily prodiv
some disturbance, I am likewise mclioa
to censure it as ui^ust with respect to hn
to whom it immediately relates.
An enquiry undoubtedly implies 9asu
cion, and suspicion is always in some m
gree injurious to his character on whoni
mils ; a man that is tried and acquitted, i
still considered as of a more douhtM rm
tation than he that never was accuaed* Tk
greatest part of mankind are tainted wid
wickedness, and gratify their pride or then
envy by crediting and spreading renxti
which reduce others to a level with taem'
selves. Every man has his enemies, wboa
particular malevolence is too active to
ondt any opportunity of destroying thai
reputation wnich is, perhaps, brighter than
their own. And those who are witbool
any partildity may be reasonably eicased,
if they are ii^clined to distrust him whose
integrity they find suspected by othert.of
eauu discernment with themfielvefl^andof
wnose motives or proofs they have no
ex;iact knowledge*
If thi9 be the condition of a nmwh(^
ft77]
Jw n ComrniHee t^Infuiiy.
A. D« 1742.
isrs
OD comtnoD oocarions, is by any accident
or negligence exposed to the suspicion of
men not more r^arded for their wisdom or
their virtue than himself, what must be the
itate of him whom the legislature of his
cottDtry thinks the proper ^ject of public
eoquiiy ? How loudly will his enemies
exult, and how boldly will his accusers
foreteO his condemnation ? What clamours
win the artful leaders of die people excite
against him? and how widely will the^
charge be spread among those whom, per-
haps, the answer may never reach ? It is
not impossible, that many of those whose
frieodsnip he has merited by good offices,
who have hitherto adhered to him from
their opinion of his virtue, may be bribed
to attack him by the prospect of popu-
larity, or frightened into desertion by the
iear of falling with him ; and that though
he should be at last acquitted by his judges,
he mav suffer by his trial alone, the greatest
erils tiiat condemnation can inflict, the loss
ofhis reputation and his friends, and be left
in solitude and in&my without any conso-
hOiQD but Hxa,t of innocence.
So formidable are the penalties which a
pariiamentary enquiry may inflict, even
upon the man whose conduct shall be
found to deserve no censure ; and so un-
hsppy may virtue be made by an unrea-
looable resard to clamours without evi-
dence, ana rumours without an author:
and I doubt not, therefore, but this House
will reject this motion ; uidess some proof
V produced which may justify suspicion,
or some crimes are allied worthy of the
national resentment
In this hope. Sir, I am confirmed by
reflecting on the present situation of the ai-
&ua of our own ni^ion, and of those round
shout us in whose interests we are neces-
Mrilj engaged. When I enquire into our
donestic ai&irs, I see us engaged in war
>«ibst a nation formidable mr the extent
of its dominions, and for the abundance of
its wealth; and yet more formidable for its
iDiance with the most powerful nation in
^ world, the ancient and implacable
enemy 6E the British nation. I see the
war, though not ignominioualy unsjiccess-
^ yet &r from having produced that
honour or those advantages #hich were
ei^^ected from it^ and very far from grati-
ng the people at whose request it was
declared, and at whose expence it is car-
ried on; and therefore cannot but think,
^ it might be more worthy of parlia-
0^^ to enquire by what measures Spain
^7 be humbled, our navigation protected.
IY0L.X1L]
our losses repaired, and our commerce re«
established ; oy what means the American
seas maybe opened to our merchants, and
our colonies restored to security, plenty,
and happiness, than how the resentment
of a party may be grattified, or how those
writers who have been engaged by malice,
or by want, to scatter calumny and propa-
gate scurrility, may be secured from the
charge of havine filled the nation with
false alarms, and calumniated a ministry
by whidi the public advantage was steadily
pursued.
But, Sir, when I extend my views to the
other nations of Europe, I discover still
more exigences that may justly engage all
that attention which can be spar^ from
our own affairs ; I see the House of Aus*
tria, the ancient ally of this nation, the
House by which the equi^ise of power
has been so long maintained, and by
which the liberties of Europe have been
so long defended against the Turks on one
part, and the Frendi on the other, reduced
not to the brink of ruin only, but to the
verge of annihilation ; and the House of
Bourbon, giving laws to all the princes of
the empire, laying the world in desolation
by its armies, and creating new dependen-
cies by the distribution of dominions
among those who will be content to sub-
mit to an universal monarchy ; I see all
the powers of Europe, under the influence
either of infatuation or of terror, connive
at the ravages of these enemies of man-
kind, and desirous not of opposing the
deluge of war, but of turning it from them-
selves.
Is this a time of leisure and amusement,
of private prosecutions, and petty animosi-
ties I Is it not rather an emergence which
reqguires every hand and every tongue, in
winch every man ought to be ambitious of
distinguishing himself by his actions or his
counsels, and in which every man who
can attend to his own private views, ought
to be considered as a public enemy i
For my part, I oppose this motion, as*
others professedl^r aefend it, upon the
same pnnciples with the former; and am
so far from thinking it necessary, that I
think it necessary to reject it among other
trifling considerations, that we may be at
leisure to reflect upon more momentous
questions, and examine without that dis-
traction which is produced by a multitude
of objects, how the war against Spain may
be most successfully prosecuted, and how
the house of Austria may be restored
to its ancient splendour ana exalted to its
ff»]
15 GEORGB II.
Ddate <m Lord Lmeridfs Motion
m
former poirer, and the liberties t>f mankind
may be once more preserved from the en-
croachments of the French monarch,
Mr. PuUeney :
Sir ; nothing is more usual than for
men that hirre lost Sieir reputation to com-
]^n of those who exposed them to the
contempt of mankind, by confuting their
faUiooas, or detecting their wickedness ;
no criminal was ever heard to extol the
integrity of the witnesses by whose testi-
mony he was convicted. But complaints
SBid murmurs are of little efficacy when
they are opposed to evidence and facts:
when we see a man always engaged in
that party which most liberally rewards
its adiierents, and find him always receiv*
ing the reward that is ofiered for hia ser-
vice, it is to little purpose, that he declares
with whatever asseverations, that he acts
only inconsequence of his own conviction,
and that his salary has no influence on his
conduct.
The adherents to the late minister have
surely very little reason to complain, that
mankind are inclined to vilify .and re-
proach them ; since it is well known, that
It was one of the principles avowed among
those who were most distinguished for
their fidelity td him, that praise and in-
famy were empty sounds, by which those
might, indeed, be affected whom expe-
rience had not enlightened, or who had
never received instructions from the vete-
rans of a court, but to which very little re-
gard was to be expected from men who
had learned the value of money, and had
been taught, tliat profit, immediate pecu-
niary profit, was the only motive that
pushed forward the business of the world,
and by whi^ every man oufht to be di-
rected, who would exempt himself from
the reproach of ignorance and folly.
I believe. Sir, the time is generally re-
membered in which those who now com-
plain of clamour and invectives, endea-
voured to turn the torrent of ridicule upon
their adversaries, when their great leader
himself employe^d his adored abilities to
make the name of patriot contemptible,
and when thejr pushed their raillery with
all the alacrity of success, and ail the
spirit of secunty. The time is not yet
forgotten when to be independent was die
•umect of reproach, and when a courtier
in the height of his exultation, called out
ih this House to his brother placemen
^ to be true to one anothea.'
' This time is, Ihope, novr at an end, the
placemen at least have now ceased tabo«t
of their slavery, they have found, that that
ahilities were not able to auj^it th«m in
the cqpinion of the nataon against the fsi!ce
of truth, and that the s|[u«ndor of eqiii.
pages, and the profusion, of wealth, hare
not been sufficient to preserve either the
esteem or affection ot the peo^ ; thqr
find themselves now reduced firom insiihs
to complaints, they find their whi^.esta-
bhshment endangered, and call upon esch
other, though in a much lower voice, to
be &ithful to the common interest, and to
join all their hands for. die support of tho
tottering fabric of corruption.
Of their fidelity to their common csofs
they have, indeed, given many proofs, of
which, however, t^ere was never peihap
any which deserved more applause fraa
their master, than the opposition wUcb
they made to the late motion, and are now
making to the present. On this occasioa
they discovery indeed, how powerfiil ii
the influence of a pension, and in whatb*
borious and unpleasing tasks avarice sod
ambition wiU engaee their slaves; tfaep
dispute when they have nothing to ar^
ana struggle, though the whole nstuv
combines to overwhdm them.
I hove, indeed, been so hmg accnstomei
to thdr cdGEusioBS of seal, and habituated to
hear from them such daring assertiois,
that 1 am surprised when any positioa ii
admitted by them, which it is tueir into*
rest to deny; and therefore cannot bat
acknowledge my astonishment, that no
champion of corruption has heea yet md*
ficiently hardened, by the long possenua
of a place of profit, to call into qoestioa
the right claimed by parliaaaent of^enquir^
ing into the conduct of the mimsteis. .
It has not, indeed, been ever assorted,
that this privilege was either usurped un-
justly by lormer parliaments, or that it faai
on any occasion been abrogated : but it ii
at length discovered by that acuteaeii
which a lucrative emplojrment geneolly
produces, that it ought never>to beocert-
ed, at least that it ought to lie dormaat tiB
the nation b on the brink of ruin ; a tims
which those will never find, to whose fiiUy
or wickedness the cahmnties of thopohllo
are to be imputed.
It is alleged likewise, Sir, that iia
crimes, for the punishment of^icb s
parliamentary enquiry is demanded, ou^
to be such as threaten die piMic SBcmi^,
and such as cannot be sufiered to escne
uncensured without mdtadg Cthen to w
seuie pinctices*
Mil
fi/t if Cotnvuntc fjjlwjpmhf*
A. D. VtVL
TUiitsflpfteimeiiof tluit ludncky elo-
quence by ^bich a bad cause is often
injmred when it n inteDfled to be siro*
ported ; it is no fileasing Blfciiatidn to be
obliged to speak when there ^ nothing to
beMd; but this has been often the mi9-
fortune of tfie late minister and his asso*
cistesy and tiie erent has been, that they
hsre been aUe to produce nothing but
what, like the vindication now attempted,
leil back upon themselves.
If it be a sufficient reason for a parlia-
nentaij enqoiiy, that crimes are enor-
mous and dangerous to the national fe^^
lidtj, surely this is an occasion on whidi
SD enquiry ought readily to be granted ;
for, wMit are the crifnes charged upon him
whose conduct is to be examin^ but
that he has given pernicious counsel to the
king, diat he has employed the pidriic
money in public wickedness, that he has
debauched the morals of the people and
cndeavoared to corrupt pariiament, that
he has sacrificed to pnyate views the
honour and wealth of his country, that
he has obstructed the success of our arms,
and m^lteted or betrayed tbe rights of
oar caaamepoe.
Soch, 8nr, are the crimes with which
he is now diarged by die general voice
of the Britiah nation, a charge which sure-
ly deserves to be r^rded, and to which
a candid attention unll not diminish the
digni^ which the legidatttre ought to pre-
serve, or tiie veneration which the people
pay to ita decrees.
It II, mdeed, said likewise, that the
crimes oog&rto be piS>lic and undisputed:
but why an enquiry ^ouM be necessary
when toe oflence is undispnted, I am not
•Uetodisoover; when the crime is proved^
I know* not what remains but to punish
iti andahosdd'move notfor an enqairy hot
As unfovtunalely likewise has it been
msited, that sadi measures are onljr ne-
ttSBsry when the public happmess is la
dttget; fbr when can onr danscr be
pester l^aa when we are engaged in aa
VDiocoessfbl waf ? A wAr in wfakA we
Wait ovorfaonte by the power of an ene-
■y wbMe fefcea a^e nioite nnmeroos^ or
^'hose tnasoves are ntore sA aent than oar
Mi,batby aatsaefbotn whichwe «Kpected
BOtesis&aMDe; aadagidasi which it washna-
Sined only necessary to dedare war^ that
v^vueihtpceseraieterms of peace. When
on we m«ejttsdy hatre recoune to en-
t"***! man when Mi Iseb the trophiea of
•»<ni»<MWjf<ayM>tfai;pr<)&o(fewr
cortmeroe dhnihi Aed, when we fee armiefc
raised only for show, and our navies act-
ing in concert with those whom they were
in appearance sent out to destroy ; when
we see that fiunily which has in all ages en*
deavonied our ruin, and which we so
lately humbled at the expence of treasures
and of forces by whicn half the world
might have been conquered, again setting
ufi at defiance, a^n aspiring to general
dominion, again mvading the neighbour*
ing countries, and overwhelming the Ger-
man empire with a storm of war.
* Surely when we are at once distressed
within and threatened firom without, when
our constitotion is weakened by corrupi-
tion, our trade invaded by a foreign power,
and our alUes sinking before the videnc^
of invasion, when all the nations of Europe
are embarrassed by our misconduct, when
we' find ourselves insulted by one power,
and forsaken by another, and are no longer
courted, trusted, or feared, it is time t#
enquire into the original cause of such
complicated misery, and inflict some ex»
emptary punishment on that man, whose
counsels nave alienated our allies, whoso
treadiery has assisted our enemies, and
whose corruption has debauched tha
nation.
In order to the detection of these crimes^
an enquiry b necessary, and that there
might be no appearance of partiality or
personal malice in proceedings intended
only for the re-establishmeot of the pub-
lic happiness, a general enquiry was firsi
proposed which equally aftscted every
^ansaction of the last twenty years, and
every person who during that time had
been entrusted with the care of national
affairs : but this proposal, however equita-
ble, however disinterested, and however
rational, was opposed, the opposition pre-
vailed, and the oaves of despotic authority
had one opportunity more of boastinff to
tfaetr master of their steadiness, meilr
unanimity, and their address. No expe^
dient now remains by which we may hope
to discover the public enemy, drag him
out into the view of the people, and fix
him as a spectacle of mfkray to warn
future tnfinistoM ogainst the pride of power,
and tbe abuse of confidence, but an exa-
mination of his condlict to irfiom nam-
berless calamities are generally imputed.
There is no method of examination which
Mr constltntion has hitherto admittetl, at
onOifr so candid, and so efficacious as tfa0
ap)^oi9|ftient of a Secret Committee, which
I, thenforo> «oUst for the attisbctioii of
BBS]
IS GEORGE IL
Debate en J^ord lAmeridfs Motimu
the people, Tecommeod, but from which
I (k«re to be excepted; because I have,
by tome expreations which broke firom me
in Uie heat of coDteBt, and the negligence
of passion, given cause for suspicion, that
I am engaged by personal resentment in
an incessant opposition to the person to
whom this motion relates : and I suppose
no man will blame me for desirkig, when I
do right, to be thought to do it upon right
motives.
Mr. Stephen Fox:
Sir ; I am not only determined to
tmoBe this motion by the reasons for
wnich 1 voted against the last ; but by
another which I am not ashamed or afraid
to avow, my personal regard for him whose
conduct is to be the subject of the exami-
nation proposed.
As I have long known him, I have had
more opportunities of discovering his de*
signs, than the greatest part of those who
liave so loudly censured him ; and I am
confident, that those who are incited to
censure lum by true zeal for their country,
and unfeiffned concern for the interest
of the pulwc, only persecute him because
they do not know him, and because th^y
have been deceived by false representa-
tions of his morals, his politics, and his in-
tentions ; all which have been aspersed with
the greatest industry, and blackened with
the utmost address <h malice and ambition.
That some of his measures may have
been erroneous, I will not deny ; for my
veneration for his abilities does not rise
to a belief of his infallibility : but if no
man, after having been so long entrusted
with the administration of public affisurs,
is to escape prosecutions and impeach-
ments, on any other condition than that
of having never failed in his designs, we
ahall not easily find, even among the pa-
triots themselves, htiwever celebrated for
their wisdom, and distinguished for their
Cimfidence, any man sufficiently qualafied
to succeed tms honoun^le person in his
employments.
That any of them will bring into the
council, eiUier a greater extent of know-
ledge, acuteness of judgment, or purity
of intention, I shall not easily believe, and
am.very &r from thinking, that any one
of those who have so long harassed this
noble person with invectives and clamours,
will, if it should be his fortune to be en-
gaged in the same province, be aUa to
.Support himself in it with egnal flrplSHSfU
— ""it it wilh SHfjikl jBtfetyii , ...
[SM
• Hisoonduct has, indeed, been nth ai
ought to place him, not onl^ out oC
danger of punishment, but out ctfihe reach
of suspicion, which, as has bem sheady
with great justice asserted, is in itsdf a
very heavy penalty, though it be not fol-
lowed by condemnation. To a delicate
and ingenuous mmd, like that of the noble
person to whom this motioo rdatea, no-
thing can be more pamfiil than to be
thought capable of guilt such as dist of
whi4£ a parliamentary enquiry implies
a suspicion ; and as^ in my opmion, hii
whole conduct has been such as entitki
him to honours and rewards, toraonumentg
and to statues,* I .shall never consent,
that the tranquillity of his retirement shoold
be interrupted by a prosecutMo; or that
those whose artinces he has so often baf-
fled, however subtle, and whose aiga-
ments he has so often confuted, however
spedous, should have an opportunity to
revenge upon him in his privacy the de-
feats which they have received firom him.
Mr.Lt^telton:
Sir; diat there are.minds to whidi it
would give no small degree of pain to be ni-
pected of any enormous wickedneai, when
1 either examine my own breast, or obaene
the eoodttct of my firiends, I am fiiUy con-
vinced ; but should never have discovered,
that human nature was capable of soch a
passion as the fear of suspicion, had I oolf
obtained my knowledge of manlund fiwa
the contemplation of the late ujniiter and
his aaaOciates.
It is, indeed, a degree of ministerial
efirontery at which every man is not able
to arrive, and at which those who knor
not by what gradations it has been atudn-
ed wul look with astonishment, for men to
qpeakand actfor twenty years in oppositiQn
to the general desires of the whole nadoo,
andoron in open defiance oftheiroeti-
tions, remonstrances and menaces, to near
themselves every day, without fear and
without confutation, censured as the violft'
tors of the constitution, the plunderers
of the public treasury, the corraptors of
parliament, and the betrayers of thdr
country ; and to see them while they en-
joyed the reward of their practioeB, hi«
themsdves amidst the hisses of msnkind,
and hear theur names mentioned in the
* « 'IhaStatuein Gold; said ». Coka
in bis speech against this melioo. "Bot we
have not rabm ibr half that was apokcn on tha
US]
AMAMrmofOnffiieneemiFideJUy. A. D. 174£.
[586
rioos language, widumtshaiiie
lid wit&out anger; and yet when their
■lafies are in question, when they ima-
|be, that they shall hare no souce in
Iteir in&my, pretend to etsrtie at danger
ta their repi^ation, jmd nel.only to abhor
goilty but to be afraid of suspicion.
if the noble person to ^om this en«
quiry relates is, in reality, 'studious of re*
putatioDy he has hitherto been very un-
Intonate io the methods by which he
has endeanroured to acquire it; for per*
haps, Donation of the earth can show a
man so universally abhorred, a man on
whom the general execrations of human
kind have been so openly discharged.
Yet this. Sir, is tne man whom his ad«
berents would now screen from the malig*
city of sun>idon, whose mind is too delicate
to bear tne reproach of an enquiry. I
doubt not, indeed, but detection will now
affect him in a different manner than when
he stood in this House with his hirelings
ibout him, haranguing on the benefits of
in excise, and the expedience of the con-
vention, when he supported the farce of ft
debate in the presence of wretches who
had sold him their votes, without hearing
his arguments, and who were equally pre*
pared to approve contrary measures, if
ihtj had discovered that he had changed
his inclination.
But though he may yet be susceptible
pT terrar, I am veiy far from imagining,
lliat he can feel shame; and therefore,
think it onneoeasary to prove what every
Ban knows, that if suspicion gave him any
pain he would solicit what Uie most ar-
Mnt of his vindicaton are now endeavour*-
hg to avert.
He baa, indeed, less to fear from an en«
Boiry than any of his predecessors, since
tney have generally endeavoured to en-
gage their party by spedoos appearances
of DcMic advantage; out he hiu trusted
Dohf to the power of money. It is, there-
Fore, urged with very little propriety, that
liis friends will forrake him on this occa-
Bon, for though danger may, indeed, sepa-
rate those whom only interest has united,
it cannot be conceived, that the dread of
in£uny can deprive that man of his adhe-
rents whom it nas for so many years been
infisnoiM to support.
It is now. Sir, in my opiQion, necessary
to comply with the general petition of the
people, to shew that our constitution, how-
ever shaken by the long continued attacks
of a deqiotic minister, is not wholly de-
itroyed: and that guilty hoirayer piosper-
ous, is not able to bid defiance to the
laws. It is expedient to hy open to his
mqaaty and the nation the sources of omr
present calamities, by our approbation of
the motion now before us.
The question was then put, and was re-
solved m the affirmative oy 252 against
245.*
A Secret Committee of 21 appointed to
Enquire into the Conduct of Robert Earl of
Orjbrd.'] It was then resolved, " ITiat a
Committee of Secrecy, consisting of twen-
ty-one members, to be chosen by ballot,
be appointed to enquire into die conduct
of Robert eari of Orford, during the last
ten years of his being first commissioner
of the treasury, and chancellor and under-
treasurer of his majesty^s exchequer:'*
and it was ordered. That the members do
on FViday next, prepare Lists to be put
into glasses of 21 names, to be the said
committee.
An Address of Confidence and Fidelitu
voted to the King.^ Then it was resolvecC
nem, con, ** That an humble Address he
* From the Seeker Manuscript.
March 33. Motion by lonl Limerick, and
eeconded by sir J. St. Aubin as 9th Inst, for
a Secret Committee of 21, to examine into the
earl of OrforH's condact for the last 10 years
of bis being Chancellor of Cbe Exchequer, and
Lord of (be Treasary. Mr. Palteney said, mi-
nisters sliould always remember the aeoouot
they most make ; that be was against raiioonr'
in the enquiry, desired not to be named for the
Committee, particularly because of a rash word
be had oseJ, that be would pursue sir Robert
Walpole to bis destruction ; that now tbe mi-
nister was destroyed, be bad no ill will to the
man ; that from his knowledge and experienoe
of many of tlie Tories, be belie? ed tbem to be
sincerely for tbe king an^ this lamily as him-
self; that be was sensible of tbe disiyreeable
situation be was io, and would get out of it as
seen as be could. Mr. Sandys spoke for the
motion, and said, he desired bis own ciodoet
miffht always be strictly enquired into. Loud
Orlord's son, Horace VValpole, and Mr. Bills
spoke well against the motbn. It was earned
by S5e against 945. Three . or four ware shut
oat who would have been against it Mr.
William Finob against it Tbe Prines'sesr.
vants for it.
Then Mr. Polteney moved an' Address «f
duty to the king, ^c which be bopged might
pass without oiipositioo, and aoeordingly it did
so. Bat sir Mr. W. Wynne and seven! otbeia
want oat of tbe Uoose, which was by some nn-
denlood to be disapprobatasB, by ediemaccideBt
on]
15.OB0XGBU.
Namei tfOe AMt Cmmhie:
pitsonted to Iw ht^eatft to amireluin of
the fidelitf, «e«l> and afeotton of thk
Houie to ms royal penoD, fkmStf wttd go*
veniment; and tint fab "ftitiiliilOoraiiioiif
will Uke every onportimkyyin this criticai
conjuncture^ to Aew, how senuble they
are of the present dangerous situation of
Europe, by die distresses to which the
queen ofHungary has been reduced; and^
as the late favourable turn of affiurs af-
fords reasonable grounds to hope that', if
ahe is timely and properly assisted by those
powers, who are engaged by treaties, and
Dound by interest to ^support her, the ba-
lance of power may be again restored, and
the tranquillity of Europe re-estabtished;
this House will therefore proceed with
unanimity, vigour, and dispatch, to sup-
port Iiis majesty in alli sucn measures, as
shall be necessary to attain these great
imd desirable enas; having, from a just
sense of their duty, the highest regard for
the honour and safety of his majesty, and
the truest concern for the freedom, peace,
trade» and weUare of these kmgdoms.*'
The Kin^s Afuwer."] To this Address
the king gave the following Answer :
** Gentlemen; I thank you for Uits du-
tiful and loyal Address, zour unanimity
on this occasion will, 1 am persuaded, be
attended with the happiest consequences
both at home and abroad. I recommend
to you the laying aside all heats and divi-
sions. I desire noChin^ more than to reign
in Uie hearts and affections of all my peo-
ple ; which I look upon to be the greatest
security to my government, and their li-
berties.**
Names tfftke Secret Comndttee impoint'
ed to enqmre into the Conduct tyf the Earl
^ Orfiird.*2 March 99. The marquis
* livm the Seeker Manuscript.
Mafck S0t ar. The House of Comnoas
ballotled for their Ckmrnittee, being called over,
and each opening his list it the table and put-
ting it iut^avesMl which stood there. This
wwanded by 5. Then a Gommittee fa^gan to
MsnioetheliBls^ and sat from diat tiote till 4
iioneatailenwen; for thoagfa two Nets were
given oat, msay deUvsied ia eonsistcd partly
of one, and partly of the other, and nNUijr
|Mt in ^iMHeBt order. [See the names
nambers kt the next page.] But other
les were set down by some one or few per-
•OM, is Mr.flhippsB, sirP^nl MethBCb,l6.
~ " , Mr. FolUney, Kr. Oybhsn,
^twslMlhaidssiieiiidt toboMt
Lord BaniBioie is sMd la have pal Vis
of HartiogtoB riposted from (tut connniv
tee appointed to ezasaine the lists of 21
penoBs nasMS to be the Comnitlee, sd
pointed to enooire into theoooduct J
kobert earl of OefiDrd, that the msjond
VIZ.
Sir John St Aubyn
The right hon« Samuel Sandys, esq.
Sir John Kushoiit, bart - - -
The hon. George Compton, esq.
The rieht hon. lord Quarendon -
Wm. Noel, esq. - - - - . *
Sir John Barnard, knt. - - -
The right hon. lord Limerick •
Edward Hooper, esq. - . • -
The right hon. lord Cornbury •
Nicholas Fazakerley, esq. - -
Hen. Fumese, esq. - . . •
The right hon. lord Granard -
Sir John Strange, knt. sol. gen,
Thomas Prowse, esq. - -
Edmund Waller, esq. - -
William Bowles, esq. - -
William Pitt, esq. - - -
Cholmley Turner, esq. •
The hon. Wm. Finch, esq.
Sir Hen. Liddel, bart.
The hon. John Talbot, esq
The hon. Alexander Hume Csmp-
bell, esq. --------
And it happened, that, upon one of th
lists, there was mentioned Alezsndc
Home Compton; and a <|neBtion vnsa\
thereupon. Whether k might mesa is
other person besides the said Aiexandi
Hume Campbeli, there bring nooenooi
the House of the name of ^eiande
naine to his list, which was eootitcd into th
number, and made 49, and so his Lift wss ft
jeeted. Several did not set doini sa muy i
ai, bat they were acoeptod. Sir TImbi
Dfttiy, a fnend of lofd OriWd's, set downfov
oftbe opposite sideio his List. LordOrM^
friends hoped it would bring moderate penM
over to them, if they put some io their List vb
were not partial to him. Mr. Hame CampM
was written in one List Hume Compton, to
name of Compton beinr next. Qoe or t#
flsore fflifttakes were iaa£s as Edwaidfbr ti
tnand Waller. None erihon f tbisk silo**
to be leeMed. Lard Osmbary dewtd i
many friends as he oo^, nst la pot bunii
their Lists. * ' ^
March SO. The Dec^ion between lir B
Lyddel, Mr. J. Talbot, aod Mr. W. Fioch
was left to the Speaker, who ebose tlie tin
former. . ...
MarehdO. The ComfluUeediosi MI^
meiisk their Chainnaa«
Tli^Pelul^mJmr^eefl|d^!fatLtr^it, .-Af D, t74&
mo
Caknpton? Tlie oommittee agreed
a fuBey upon thai nmnbert and or-
^ the fiid to De reportad to the Hoose ;
tiift the House mould be acquaiotad,
tint vote is indnded m the 258 votes
lie now upon the list for the bon.
der Hume Campbell.
there being an equality of totes for
hoD. Wm. Finch, sir Henrj Liddel,
Iqb. John lUboty and the hon. Alex.
ae Campbell; die Journal of the
Mof the 15th of April 1604,iB relali<m
be proceediag upon the Report from
Committeey appointed to examine and
the Lists or the Names of commis-
for taking and stating the public
Is; and to report upon #hom the
of coniaussioners feD, was read:
Die Jonmal of the House of the 20th
jpril 1711) in relation to the proceed-
of the House upon the report from
Dommittee, appointed to examine the
of commissioners for examining into
falue of lands, and other interests
led br the crown, since the 13th of
. 166o» and upon what consideration
gnmts were made, in order to resume
ime, and apply them to the use of the
; and to report to the House, upon
seven the majority fell, was also
> And a debate arismg in the House
Hipon,
i; Speaker said, That it was the first
it had ever come to him to deter-
any thing in the chair by his voice ;
Ihough he was under a difficult^^r in
ase, and should not exercise any right
vtllingly: yet he had no pain about
I his voice openly ; having ever dis-
the method of ballot, except in cases
i:aecessity; the openness of acting
k being, in his opinion, one of the
pt pillars of secunty to the people, for
oper behaviour of their representa-
: he said, he would never ^ve up the
of the chair; yet he desired to be
ed from declaring his sentiments as
^ejieint of order in this matter, and
^iited himself to the sense and com-
Idiofthe House.
Ike Speaker being then desired to
iCise the ancient right of Speakers, in
(of equality of voices, without putting
isesdon: and it being asserteo, that
n the report, in the case of equality of
Ses, the then Speaker desired to be
p^ed from determining. And it beipg
smsa of the House, that the Speaker
bULhow gife his determination; he
s his voice f6r sir Hoaiy liddeif and
hen. John Talbou
Ordered, Tli»t five be the quoniiB of
the Committee of Secrecy ; that the aaid
Committee have power to send for per-
son8» iwpers, and records. Also, to exa-
xsdxktf in the most solemn manner, auch
persons as they shall think proper to exa*
mine ttpOQ the eubject-matter of thehr en*
qttiry..
A Mctionfor repealing the Septennial
Aa refected.} March SL A motion waa
made m the Commons^ That an act of the
first year of his late majesty king George^
intituled^ \ An Act for enlarging the Time
of Continuance of Parliaments,' appoiotayi
by^ an Act made in the 6th year of the
reifa of, king William and queen Mbxj^
intituled, < An Act for the frequent meet*/
ing and callins of Parliaments,' might be
read; which being read accordingly, a
motion was made by sir Robert Godscnall,
and seconded by sir John Bailiard, that
leave be given to bring in a Bill to repeal'
the said act : but the same being warmly
opposed by several members, amongst
whom were Mr. Pulteney and Mr. Sandys,
it passed in the negative, by 204, against
184*.
The PendonBUlrgectedbytheLords\,1
March 26. In the House of Lords the '
Bill intituled, * An Act for maldnff .more
effectual the laws now in being, ror dis-
abling Persons from being chosen Members
of, or sitting or voting in the Qouse of
* Frcm the Seeker Manuscript.
March dl. 8ir Robert tiojschall, Lord
navor, moved lor the repeal of the 'Septennial
Btif. Mr. Pakeney said, be thoogbt Annual
Parliaments would be best, bat preferred Sep-
tennial to Triennial, and voted against the mo-
tion. In all 904 ^^nst it, 184 for it.
f From the Seeker Manuscripts
March SO. The Pension Bill read a seoond
time io the liords. Duke of Devonshire said a
few words against it. Lord Saadirich pleaded
for it, that sopie petsons now in the nuniatry
had patroDJzed it, and for their sakss it shoolA
be oommitted. Lord Romney, that some ob*
jectioos agajnt it had beea obviated by altera-
tions. These three speeches lasteq scarce^
half a quarter of anheur* The question pii^
for comimtliog,
liolGoatens 0$ Ceoteat. 39
Pioaea 11 f
76 . * 40
Imaaneor^biiliepafop it^4offd'C»|rlMt^
aadlecdBeckdayagaiiistit. — ^
15 GEORGE IL i^OiUe in ^he Lords tm the Mace BOL
5013
C^nunons, who have any Petision dtiriiig
pleaaurey or for any number of years, or
any Office held in trust for them/ was read
a second time. It was then proposed to
commit the Bill; which being objected
tOy after debate the question , was put.
Whether the said Bill shall be committed i
And it was resolved in the negative. So
that the Bill was lost.
The Kin^$ Message concerning the
Queen of Hungary.*'] April 1. Mr.
Sandys acquainted the Comraonsy that he
had a Message from his' majesty, which
was read as follows;
«« George R.
<*It is always with tlie utmost reluc-
tance his majesty asks any extraordinary
supplies of his people : but as his faithful
Commons have» with the greatest zeal and
unanimity, expressed their concern for
the support of the House of Austria, and
for restoring the balance of i)ower in Eu-
rope ; and as the late events in favour of
the queen of Hungary afford a reasonable
prospect of success, his majesty makes
no doubt but this House will, at this time,
readily grant him such a supply, as may
enable him to concert proper measures,
• and form such alliances with other powers,
as may be necessary for attaining those
desirable ends, which they have, in so
E articular a manner, recommended to
im."
The said Message was ordered, nem.
con. to be referred to the Committee of
Supply.
April 2. In the said Committee it was
xesolved, << That 5O0,O00L be granted to
* From the Seeker Manutcript.
April 4. In the Commons 500,000/. voted
Ibr tneQaeen of Hungary, I believe fiMi. con.
Sir John Bernard moved it, which Mr. Sandys
told me, was that day makioflf himself the Chan-
eellor of the Exchequer. He told me also, the
king was anwilling to grant the PriDoe 50,000/.
a year, and I am told from other hands, that
be saith he never promised it The bishop of
0amm says, sh- Robert Walpole told him, that
the king would give 90,000/. b«|l no more.
Mr. SaiMys appmred determined against ad-
mitttnr Txiries, and said it was won&rfui their
anion had held so long, and it ooold not be ex-
pected to hold loDffer: that he oould not
imagine why erery body spoke against lord
Carteret, bat that he had better abilities than
any body : that as soon as foreign affairs oonld
be settled, they would endearour to reduce
the exnenaH of the ecown and intvest of the
J
his majesty, upon- accoont,
enabling his majesty to concert pc«
measures, and form such alliances, orei
into such engagements with other pon
as his majesty shall judge neoenary
the support of the House of Austria,
for restoring the balance of powq
Europe.''
Debate in the Lords on the Place
April 6. The Lords read a second
* From the Seeker Manutcript,
April tf . Place BUI. It was motdl
the House.
The Duke of Jrgyle said, it
take this opportunity, when a bill of ndl
portanoe was under oonsideration, Kotapi
nimously by the House of Commons at t|
4oest of the nation. Whoever thinks it t «
ooe, should be proud to convioGe the fi
of Commons, and he wished allthepeoj
£D?land could hear them.
fiord Damley said, the House of Cobm
had not been cleared lately when a
that purpose had been made, but
lords to stay.
The Duke of Montague desired ths (
of 1696, might be read,i
forbids lords going to the House of Gobi
but by leave of their own House.
Lord Sandwich said, if the Order for
ing the House was to be executed, be i
insist on every other Order.
The Dokeof MoitU^fue desired he m
and that the Order of the 25th January,
might be read, which is, that businesa i
stop till the House is cleared.
Lord Halifax Imped that motion woi
withdraw^, in civility to the Gommou.
Lord Havers/mm moved the previous
tion.
Delawar said, no standing Order
dispensed with, tail a day had been apj
consider it.
Lord Berkshire moved it should- be
sidered on Thursday.
Lord Chancellor said, that motion
regular, since the House was in pi
other basiness, and it must be cleared— [^
it was.]
LoveL This Bill was rejected by a
majority last year, and for the same
should be rejected now.
Raymond. It will drive young psopld
quality out of the army. ^
Berkshire. The Commons are the ij
judges of their own privileges.
Delawar. The people need not chose ptatf
men a^in.
Oxford. Only persons in the lowest effio
intended to h« excluded : clerks that in tl
morning stand behad ttie cfai^ of those, vIm
half an hour ailer they sit down with isll
6
m
Deiat&in ih& Lord$ on the Place BOL
A. D. 174&
im
a Bin fhr better secm^ the freedom of
BvliamentSy by limiting the Number of
Officers in the House of Commons. On
the Motion, that the Bill be committed, a
debate ensued^, in the course of which.
House. Ail inflaence bat that of duty is a bad
iLfloenoe.
Argyk* What the late ministry was, we
We seen and felt: what the present may be
we eui only goess. But as men they may be
nbject Id human frailties. The air of a court
is reiY apt to prpdace ambition, and a?arice,
sod Imt of unJimited power. And if that
shooU be tainted, there ongbt to be some me-
thod of core, and an independent parliament is
the ooij one. And whatever is for the interest
of tiie whole, is for the interest of the crown.
Soine have doubted which is worst, a de-
pendeot psriumient, or none. I think it best
to bare nooe, then nobody is blinded. <* An
CDperor may grow weary of the serf ility of
1 seoile," [NB. These were lord Carteret's
words hst session,] a minister never will.
If we hsd not seen an immense number of
FIsoetDCB in the House of Commons, we
vsgbt have doubted about this Bill; hot we
kfe seen it And when almost have they
ever voted against the roinistrv, and how long
hre tbej oontinoed in place r There is not a
Bia hears me that will deny vrithout doors, but
Ibcce thiogs have increased in bis own time.
Klines lie regarded, when the principles that
^ccaskmed them are ranished. I am of a
ttme aod a fiimil v, that taught me the power
«f tbe crown ought to be lessened : but I can
Karce find one of my name after they get into
jM offices that agrees with me in pnnciples.
There aie S or 300 members of the House of
^'ouBons ts be turned put as they vote. An-
^Uy oflkes were not spread as they are now.
ronnerly you had but one admiral. There
vu so seed then of a Place Bill to hinder 7 or
8 and their clerks. This was done on purpose
^ int'wlace a number into the House of Com-
Bttns. And the number of commissioners is
^ tikenaway by the Bill; which, and its
I0( taking place soon enough, are my only
%ciioQs. I intiflMted here last year, that
tbe Cif il list was m debt, and I was told that
n«e wu no proof of that. But I will say, I
]||spect, and hope I shall not be flatly contra-
4icted b it, that Secret Service hath mcreased
i^^y, and that for the 6rst month or six
^^ after the meeting of the parliament, the
ttpeiwei have been much greater than the
^ of the year. What will the people of this
>ation think of us for throwing out this Bill ?
llielustory of this session will he known, but
»»l! not be believed. We are % told, «* If the
P^t continues lo languish, will you not
•"«>g«. your doctor?" But if the next give
* From the London Magazine*
^, i By Lord Carteret last ssssion.
Lord Raymond spoke as follows :
M}^ lords; I am not only against
some particular clauses of this Bill,, but
against the whole contexture of it; and
Quack Medicines, the patient may chance to
die of a violent death instead of a lingering one.
Cholmondeley, I am neither for extending
nor lessening the prerogative. Passion and
popularity have influenced persons of the
greatest understanding. The instructions of
borooe;hs are not a reason why this Houso
should vote differently from what it did last
year. The Bill is not altered when it comes in
a reasonable way. I shall be for it, as it
stands now. Men of property will be in par-
liament, and not in places. These will be in tho
bands of the lowest [leople. A Bill mi|rht be
brought in for restraining the little offices in
the navy, &c. hut you can make nothing of
this. Persons out of place are as csonstant in
voting as those in place. I have been Opon
the rack to invent someihing new upon this
argument, and cannot.
Shaftesbury, 1 have a hereditary preposses-
sion for Bills of this kind. This Bill hath
come up but once in my time, and then went
oif without a word speaking. Rejecting it
now, will inflanie the people at a wrung time.
A noble lord (Carteret) distinguished formerly
between power and authority. I hope the mi-
nistry will have regard to it now. The pass-
ing It will be for the honour of the king and
those in power. It was brought up by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer TSanoys), and
therefore doth not proceed from taction.
Aylesford, Some of the la^rs that are our
Seatest securities, the Bill of Rights, the
abeas Corpus, have been more than once re-
jected. The crown's prerogative should have
no influence in either House of Parliament.
This Bill allows as many placemen to sit in
parliament as sat in former times, and more
will destroy the freedom of parliament.
Chesterfield. It is difficult to speak eitlier
against or for a self evident proposition. But
my reasons for being for this BQl, are regard to
the constitution, to this House, to the other
House, and to the administration. It must not
be said that places influence. But doth any
body doubt it ? For what have places been di-
vided, augmented, unjust in them connived at f
Why do persons spend so much in £lectioiis»
and persons and broken fortunes the remaine
of them P It can be only to repair them. Their
employments enable them to be re-elected.
But if places had not influenced, the law providee
against possibilities. A man that bath an in-
terest in a cause, is not allowed to be a witness.
Not that every such man is a knave, but here
is a probability also ; and will you not obviate
it? People in great circumstances are as liabla
to temptatkms as others. The House of Com-
mons have done great service to the nationi^
and it hopes for mora fvom them- It '
Ml] 15 0E01BBU.
though my lo^dsy Bills of this nature liave
been canvassed in both Houses by men
of &r greater abikies and experience
ihan I can paetend to, yet I shouU ^nk
DebaUh^LvfAdttikFUmBKL [MS
UDiTerially gtren tbem instnietions on this
bead. Dvi not by rijectiog €tm Bill throw an
imputation of coRosioo upon them. This
House hath hitherto kept as free from the sus-
picion of cormptton as from the realiQr of it.
Thouffh these are imperrious to it, yet you
should also keep the olherpore, and not eorr
tbem the glory of socb a BHl. It is a blemish
npon a good administration to haTe aoy assist-
anoe from a compt parnament. One of tha
ablest Roman emperors thousffat the renutalion
of puri^ so neo^, that he new would
ghre a pension to the most indigent senator,
Without aoquaintiog the House and obtaining
fteir consent. Luxury haA bst its name.
Corruption assumes a thousand shapes, friend-
ship, charity, public serrioe: and thus trans-
fbraring itsdi, it transforms others, fiknne
places liave no busnieoi briongmg to them :
these are mere pensions, and theie are many
anch employments wimout business. This
Bill leaves almost all the emplbyments which
can be ofbrad to a person of consequence: and
excludes only such from die Bouse ss would
be excluded from most company; such as may
without mdrility be sent to fetch pens and pa-
per fbr other members. Yon may commit it
and take in more, if yon thmk too many are
excluded. But not committing it, is aaying,
that Dotbhig of tins kind ahdl ever pass. There
are now about 900 persons in the House who'
have places ; what will the nation say, if a Bill
recommended as thisfaath been, be thus thrown
•utf
l^castle. Ton had the last time this Bill
was before yoo, the reasons against it drawn
np by one of those great men who brought
about the Rerolation (lord Somers.j It goes
upon a principle desUruciiYe to tne consti-
tution, which is, that the crown and'tfae people
hare a different interest; it excludes from
parliament all the first employments of the
kingdom. And when the Commons can hare
no other they will hare all these. Wrong
histmctionf from ^ehr constituents may influ*
ence the other House, but let them not in-
fluence us. It will be an impntation upon us,
if hariugbeen rejected last year it be admitted
now. The Bribery Bill hath done nothing
Ihit add penary to corruption. Expences for
elections are not to be laid at the door of one
party only. Perhaps that is the most guilty
which complains. This Bill hath been brough t
np in almost the same words from the Revola-
tlon to this day, and hath hitherto been rejected
under. all admmistrations. 'To pass it now will
be, to say we are at length conVmced that who-
erer bath an employment is to be distrusted.
lliU Bin will exclude such as were not designed'
to he exdnded, offices of honour, wardens of
ttefbresli, stewaids of the crown, to.
ly UaoMririe^if Ididnsi,ai6r
aa in me lies, eppisae a Bill wfaidi stntes
donecUy at the root of the oooatitntieii, sad
la an infrnngement bodi of die libedies of
■ ■— ■■ « ■■ I ■> 991 ■ »
CarlUte. The Bitt against wWdilbe gRit
lasn mentioned bylheniAle ddkadrair op
ressons, excluded all men in offices: I vtia
the Hoase of Comaons wiAi^tbe ftet Mt,
whose basineBs was to carry the letteis froa
the post bouse to 8t. James's. You msya-
dude all but such : yoo cannot caohidb su Inr
name: would you csolude by nanwlbelaiip
entlar? If yon refsetsbB Bib, the Con-
may pot it inlo a ilsney BUI. HieeMs-
snersef Ibe Custsusu afeaaoMed faja
in the Iisnd-taK BSH.
JLoasdbfc. IdonotlihofbbiBlllasitstss^r
but would make amendraeata w it, fcr ^M
Hie proper time is when it ie eommittod, md
that time will prohsMy never oome. I tn
afraid of makuig any great ehasM m Ae
consdtntion. At preseat thugs will astfv
to the utmost length t it atppears Ihsrs at
some reaonrees m it : 1liiapo^erbi4basio«B
of giring rewards to members, bail beoi ec-
tended too Ikr. Perhaps not above a ar ie
derks* places have been given wroag, gifca
t» memtierB. Such persona get thenftbei
chosen wherethey are not fcntwwa. Aul den
thmgs hare brought disgrace en aH ia pestf.
Thesethinga<(hereibre I wouM eeriest, and not
go much tarther. AH restnuats upon thi
crown hare come from abuses eomflimBd bf
the oown. Yet a man's having an empbf-
ment, ndther takes away bis uflderStasdlB^
nor his proluty. He will le 0 good msn or t
bad man as he was before.
BoMttrfT. ThehonoaroftbeHbusebd-
sentially concerned in this matter-^t mH be
said, this IB the place where onch BKHs siv tv
drop. The opinions of the people have oeigfht
even in artyitrary governmeota, much tamt
should they in oars. In ours thcr legtsIHive
power is absolute : let us preserve the re^of
the people to it. You may alter this Bill ioto
excluding such and such, instead of all bit
such. If theOommons have uo mindit should
pass, pass it fbr that reason. He would not
Dear obloquy for one^l nearest fHends. fttt
Pension Bill was the most hmooent Bill th«t
ever came hither, probably there will come
stronger. It may come in time to this, tbit
nobody will vote ior the court without reward,
and then more rewat^. Theie will be sbovr
100 Placemen left in the H^oose of CommoDr
by this Bill. The Self Denying Onfiiiance was
a blind. Cromwell sat with an (employoKBt
aft^r ft : but it got the House the good opisioa
of mankind.
Bishop of St. Ast^h.^ We are now in s
* Dr. Isaac Maddox. » Be was bora is
London, STtb July, 1697. His Oaients were
very humble, and he lost them both early, opoo
which he wasphuaed by an auat with afsftay*
mn
JMateH^ihLcfdnmikfPkMMm.
A. D. vrm:
(591
the nferogafive of Ae
tet
the p6i|de^ aad
ni. Ib the sequel of what I riiell
to Toar Joedihhys, I think I can plnily
e eat tiis avcilioB; i^ riiodd 1
be mmaniamf njr lorria, I wiH ventere to
n?, mtf heady net mj heart will be in
To weigh the meats eftkiaffiH, it will
be neccMary to take it firon its birth^ con-
if and how and men what
it has appeared* My lords^ this
plant was aowB by partT andlae-
tioB: it WW naraed by fiiry anddiacontent:
kai ef £B^]sh liberty waa its fcuit. it
vai the SaSt step by wkaA Oliver Croni-
vei^ anfl some few otbers, mounted up
above the lihortj of mankiad; It was
fiamed'to divide and destroy the bulwark
ef our constitution^ the narliament; and
r» awlordsyitwould be verveictraor-
% if parliament Main should cherish
Ganker-wonn» whteh since its birth
' ^ to appear, but when a
hovered round os, and,
and intense darimess, was the
of a storm*
My lords,' the very preamble of thk
vsTy and ibe liberties ef Europe depend oa the
SQoosBs of it Therefore I am agsiast this
BOL If it would help us in the war, 1 would
le for it. I do not enter into the merits of it.
If it be a sood one, I wish well to it, but it be
fikdyto nave any eztraontinsry good efllects,
ilMuId take plaee sooner, not sAw die end of
Ibtsperiianent, which in all probshility will
bst seven years, and that is coontsd the fife of
aauuw Tkt pepulaiity of a Bill that is to
tike plaoain the next age you will not eaeou-
nge. Let popularity be founded on a v^orous
pmeentiop or this war. That must be inter-
rupted by this Bill, which is owned to require
gnat alterations, and they will take up nme.
fbe king's Serjeants and counsel may by this
fiok, wto sefnsod to keep him, because he
ei more attention to books, than bis bosiaem.
sAsrwarda wss seot to a Scoieh University,
bat disliking their tenets he entered Queen's
College^ Cambridge, under the patronsge of
hisbop Gibson, end obtained a doctor's degree
It LambM. He obtsined the rectory of St.
^edist, Poster Lane, London, and in 1789, was
appointed deik of the elfiset to the Queen ; in
ITSa, dean of Wales, bisbopef Si. Asaph 17S6,
isd tf SBstslMl to Werewter 1740. Iul738,be
sabliihed a Fmdieation of the Chureh of
lUekad, ^^aiasl Meal's History of the Pu-
ntans ; aad pubUshediieBides, 14 suigJe sermons,
preached on ?arious occabions. He was a
goeat benefiictor to several hospitals ; be en-
coorsged the British Fisheries, and promoted
^ enieiSoa of the Worcester fnflrmary . He
<sdwiter0spteaiker,.m9.» '
Bill setenp n standard ef dimoir between
the cnmn and the peonle: it dedarea
their interest separate^ and of consequenoa
&ey nrast dnsr separately; whieh is a
doctrine quite diflerent from what 1 have
been taught frem mt craiieb I am sure^
it is nmost melanciiely doctrine; fee a
state divided against itself csn never
stand long.
But, my lords^ to be more particulai^
let ns consider (should this beoome an
act) wimt e&ct it would hare, first by
exdodiag alt but some few of the moat
impertant nlaoca from the House of Com^
nsoosy ana afterwards by esxxiadmg tte
aranr*
fknty uieDy witb regara to those plaeeft
of iBiportance whidi it does not exdnde,
and tMie lesser which it excludes, I rinH
only beg leave ef Tour hwdships to put
a few questions. It then, we enchide al
but those of the greatest trust, and uter*
the very being of puUie affiars is oanare^
how shall wo m die nest age find mea
capable of filling them? For by Cakii^
away the lesser, we take away the proper
steps to the greater. How aie those whe
parismeat. Bat if any of year
offer thdr lives fi»r the serriee
Bill sit in
lordships' i
of tfaeur country, a post io the army will ex*
dude them. Thus '* cedaut anna togae.' Their
wounds and scars are to be the foundation of
their being n^^ from pariiament Let us
therefore drop this Biu and prosecute the war,
and Ged give sueoem.
Question whether it be committed.
liordPomp
N. C. 81.
C.sa. OfwhomlwMf
fret,&c.
Then and imrae^ prapesed ta have the
staadisvOvder of 4au. 85, IfW, csasiddred a
few days after.
C.43. Of whidh bishop of Gloacstsr was
N. €.68. Ofwhomlwasone.
Then lord lialilax moved to have die (Msr
of April 5, 1707, read, that ndtherthe Attorney
General nor any assistant of the House sheula
be counsel for any private person «at tiie bar.
Also to have the 63u Order read, that causes
shall be called in at 11, 28th June, 1715. The
ChaueeNor said it was meant lor a cumpliment
to him, he was ghul of it, Ibr he Idved early
hewSi But sa the busiocM at' Chancery .must
be carried en, he hoped be should not siiend
without suoh a decent number as thst he could
go on witb business, that great causes weoe
determined by. two or tliree spiritual and as
many temporal lords, which did not do honour
to ^at judiicatnre which was the principal sup*
pail uf tneBuuse. A^|ottined«
BOSf}
IS^GBOBGEIL Debbie in tie Lords m^ikiPkeeSaL [890
wae yodne and unexperiencedi to acquire
a knowlec^in businees, so as to be able
to traosact affidn, on the well or ill con*
ducting of which depends the public good,
or tbe misery of this whole nation l My
lords» how sfaiall we find men fit for these
important posts ? It is an undeniable lacty
tiiat business makes men of business: the
greatest natural capacity a man ever was
Blessed with, can never teach him the in-
tricate roady form, and routine of public
cCces : practice must do it, and practice
alone« if Uien the means to practice be
4sat 0% how must young men arrive at this
knowledge? It must be by inspiration,
or by one single way else, which is as un-
likely to lumpen as induration from heaven,
vrfaich is, by the great men of the present
age turning schoolmasters, keeping a
adiool for foreign and domestic politics.
I am apprehensive they will not easily be
jndoeed to turn pedagogues ; not to men-
tion that they themselves may not, per-
Iiaps, wish to have the market overstocaed.
Wh»t then must be the consequence?
Young men of fortune and rank cannot
accept of places, when by accepting them
tiiey are to be deemed unfit for serving
their country in parliament, and to have
tlie ignominious mark of sldvery set on
them ; and without accepting which, they
cannot arrive at a knowledge of business
fit to be trusted with the public afEiirs.
What will be the effect ? Men of no for-
tune, no rank in the state, who have ^rst
drudged through the lower and mean of-
fices, must have those of the greatest trust
and profit, as being the only jM^rsons ca-
pikble of filling them : and it is too much
to be feared, that the complaisance of such
(who owe sill they have to the crown)
will be boundless, and that the king will
have bad counsellors, and the nation be
111 served.
My lords, with regard to the officers of
the army, I think, the same ailment is
stHi stronger, as the misfortunes which
wfll flow from it are of a more immediate,
and of a more dangerous consequence,
and the danger without remedy. This
Bill will exclude all young men of fortune
from the array, for the same reason it vpill
from all civil employments. Your gentry,
vour nobility, deorived of all laudable am-
bitkius views, will sink, like Italians, into
a slotfafiil idleness. But, my lords, I must
be^ leave to remind you of this nation's
being saved firom slavery by having men
of property in the army ; for God's sake !
'o not let us ruii^ that great bcuxie^ of pur
liberty. It may be said, we do n
in need of any army: we are an aJend,
have a most poweifid fleet, so that an
army is both uselev and dangerous. I
shall not entei; into all that may be ssid in
answer to that complicated anertion; but
only beg leave toput a case, and it Lb acaae
as the uBurs of Europe stsiid, which must
happen once in twenty years, and I hcnpe
our liberty will be upon a sounder founda-
tion than to be hazarded every twenty
years; witliin that space oftime, you must,
m all probability, raise a considerable
army, either to defend your own poeaes-
sions, or preserve the balance of power
in Europe, which are equally and al^o-
lutely necessary. When this anny has
done what you raised them for, you wiH
think it necessary likewise to disband
them, and ease yourBclves and the peopie
of so costly a burden ; but your lordshqps,
perhaps, will find the disbanding them
more difficult than the raising them. I
am apt to believe, that a vote of either
House, how rhetorically soever it may be
expressed, will not persuade them it is for
their interest to lose their bread, when by
keeping together, you and all you have h
intirely at their mercy; and, my lords,
at such a season, should a prince, less s
father of his people than his present ma-
jesty, should a prince of more ambitious
than honest intentions, fill the throne, it
would be in his power, with such an anny,
to become as absolute as the king of
France. My lords, by vi^iatl have <2fer-
ed to you, it plainly appears to me, that
nothing can keep and confirm your liber-
ties but having the officers, at least, men
of property, wno have a stake in the coun-
try, and whose interest is the same vitfa
ours. It was by an army of hirelings,
debtors, renegadoes, and such, that Rome
at last fell a victim to the ambition of
one man.
It may, perhaps, be said in excuse for
this Bill, tnat men of too small fi^rtunes
have employments and seats in parliament;
have you not an act of qualification ? If
that is not observed, why will you imagine
this will i I should think it would not; for
though it is an extraordinary thing to say
so, it would be contrary to the interest of
the crown, contrary to the interest of
every particular, and contrary to the in-
terest of the nation in eeneral. But if tbe
sum limited in thO'Qudification Bill is not
already sufficient, increase it: that is the
only way which will answer what is in
v9in expected fnqm this KU. Bu^ my
IMote inOie LofA m deiPheA ABL
AM]
lordi^ tft 00Dciu4e : what a cmnpUmMil
wottkl it be to hiB majesty, to lay, you
aie notfit to be tnnted with what your
aDoeatoif have always hitherto eojoyed^
the poircrofdiapoainff of places and judg-
ing of merit? Weiin^» bya public acl,
shew we mistrust vou. whatacompli*
ment will it be to those the people diitse,
to say, we wiU sot trust your iiit^grity»
because the people chuse you their reore-
sentativei? Is this the means to endear
a people to their prince, a prince to his
people, or mankind to one another?
The Earl of Sandwich :
My lords; I am sorrv to hear a
Bill branaed with so many hard names,
which, in nqr opinion, is not only desir-
ed, but absolutely necessary. Sot securing
our.constitiition against the .crown's hav-
ing a cotnipi and prevailing licence in
b(Xh Houses of Paniament. It ts said to
strike at the root of our coii9titution, by
attacking both the liberties of the people,
and prerogatives of the crown, and it has
been call^ the ofipring of party and Suc-
tion, nofsed up by fory aad discontent.
This is a most terrible description, but the
direct conCraiy^in every respect happens
to be really the case ; as I hope I shall be
sble to shew both from the nature of the
Bill, and from the history of such Bills,
iome of which had the good luck to be
passed into laws, and some of those laws
DOW stand, and, I hope, ever will stand,
unrepealed.
In andetit times, my lords, nay I may
lay till after the Restoration, we had no
eccBsioD for such Bills* The crown had
bat few lucrative employments to bestow,
sad many of those it had at its disposal,
vere such as were generally granted for
life ; consequently, no minister could hope
by such means to gain, much less to pre-
serve, a corrupt maiority in either House of
Pariiaoaent; and the impossibility of suc-
cess prevented their making any such at-
tempt. We had then np mercenary stand-
inc smiy, nor had the crown any lucrative
mSitary commissions to dispose of. If an
snny was at any time raised for foreign
lenrioe, no officer employed in that army
could look upon his commission as an
estate for life ; therefore, though a com-
miiBioD io the anny was looked upon as an
boDour, it was never looked upon as a far
vour; but OB the contrary, those landed
^tlemen who had aconired a character
ID their country for conduct, courage* and
Mttary laiowiedgei were ofken solicited
to accept of cbmaaisMOBa in Oe arasjr
which was to be raised, and when the
service was over, the^ letuined to liya
upon their estates in toe country, without
beutig at any ferther charge to the public.
We had then, my lords, but very few
Customs and no Excises; consequently •
minirter could not spread his excisemen
over the whole kingdom, to influence dec*
tions in counties, or to govern them in
most of our inland borougte; andthesala^
ries of our custom-house officers were so
trifling, that no man of any mat character
or fortune would accept of them, so that
such officers had but very little influence in
any of our sea-port towns. Nay, the com^
missioners in our navy were either sudi as
were not at the diqposal of the crown, or
sucbas could havenoconsiderableinflueaoe
over those that accepted than ; for whilt
the custom of the crown's being fumisbed
with ships of war by our sea-ports remspt
ed, the i^cers of the ships were appointed
by the mamtrates of thetown wherothey
were fitted out; and even after the diipa
bewBoa to be furnished at the publiccfaarge^
and all the officers appointed by the jbiowi^
a commission in the navy cmld not be
looked on as a" provision for life, b^oauai
when the expedition was over, they, were
dismissed without any half-pmr or other
provision ; (com whence it is nuin, that a
commission eidier in the land or sea aer*
vice could then have no influence in parlia»
ment, because the officers, when employed
in an expeditiooi. could not be these, and
when th^ were not eiqiloyedy they h4d
nothing from the crown.
But now, my lords, thecase is quite ak
tered: the commissi<Mis in our amy and
navy, the posts in the collection of tho
public revenue, and the other ^aces in the
disposal of the crown, are beeome.ao noo
merous and so lucrative, that, they must
have a great influence upon the.men^bers
of Uie other House, if there be no re*
straint upon the number of dacemen al*
lowed to nave seats in that House. Thi%
I say, must be the oonsequencct unless wt
suppose, that men will jumze and determine
as impartially in a case where they are to
get or lose SOOL or lOOQL a year, as iaa
case where they are to get or lose nothing
by their judsment or determination ; and
to suppose this, is socontrary to the na-
ture of mankind, and to the established
maxims of all societies^ that I am sure
none of your lordshios will make any
such supposition. PacliainentB» we khow,
uredcaigpod W beachotkuptm jaqotftwrii
M8] l&OBDlB&n.
«r pbw ia dK ^kpoflBl of Ae crovm, li
left to4heaiiMtvan'^poMl a^Buniatcni;
Mi «• abo know^lftBt no nuMUr •verdl4»
or ««er wiU give aliMfatm pdst «r cttiykqfu
■MDt lo a man wli» opposes hn nMasiireB m
parfianKPt; from late oxponenco we knowv
iiifl somo of tbo Unheal officen fa dM
kuigdom bavebaen diamitfledi lor bo alkei
vcaaoii but ^ecauae tfae^r diaopj^roved of
the measuvas poraned by our anibialovsy
aad hod honour enough to dodaro tkoir
iitapiMobatuA in panliament. Can wo
tiion expoct, my lords, thai the other
Houao Witt over be a oheok uponthecoa^
duet of our miniaiefi, as long ao there ia«
■lafoffity in that House, who enjoy or ex-
pect some luorativo and bononrable Obh
ploymont fram the benevoleBoe of tiiose
oorv rainistOM? I shall not say» thai m
aooAocaso tlio aoonaibers would all bo cor-
nipt in dieir detenninalionsi boll win
any, tliat in naavy cases they woidd be
bioBBod in their judgments^ and thereby
Muced 10 approve of what, in duty to
lliHi comMvy, they ought to have dmp*
■rooed el, or to put o negatiyo upon wtet,
an dnay to their oountry, they ought to
imoO'gken their oonaewi to*
Thorelbre, my torda^ tf we intend that
Ibo other tiousofihonid answer the end of
ka instiMiliqn» by judging hnpaitiallyy and
dBtcmintog wisely and justly in every ease
Ihatoomas before them, we must pass this
Bill, or aneh a Billos Ibis; or we must
JMss a Bill for taking Orom the crown the
iispoMd ot those posts and emph^ments
that are necessary for the executive part
of our government; and surely those lords
who seem samigh^f joaloua of any in-
oroacfamont upon ti&e prerMitivo of the
CMwn, wiH agree to the fermor mtiher
Aon to the ktter of these two expedieiits.
aiM laMer, I shaB grant, woudd bean in-
fringeasenl of one of those prerogadves
now enjoved by the crown ; birt I cannot
for my tife see what the fermer has to do
With the prerogathres ofth€^ erown, nor
can* i conceive how any one prerogative
of the crown is tohe in the least aMcted
by tins Bill. There i» no confinement,
»er the least lestmint proposed i»on the
power the king has to dispose of onceo or
ompkymems: ho may giMt themas fully
ana iredy as belbre: he may even grant
Ihem to meneri>er8 of parHaraent, notwith-
Handing any thing proposed to be enael-
od by this Bid; aira the members may
enjoy the ottee or employment so granted
10 him> on^. if it bo such a oao aa is
Bdat^inikeLomkmikePktiBllL
[•0
aol oxceplad'iistliis Bill» I
ff»Hehasea.^
is this, my iorda^ an infiinflamtttsf «
pretofBlioaiaf the erown j SaaAskiif
pofwer toiteii'tflo peepia whoa they an<
dmse, iO' whom they* aw not ta dm
Vkh wf Ikmdk:; hot tho legpahtoreh
and haa tlMadN[ in many oaaas axaitii
that power. Tho peopfe are aliead^ I
krw restrainod from diuaiog a manatliii
reprosenlalio^ w4Mr ia not possesnd
§d6i.or at loaat dOOL a year: ti^i
already rostvained from dinaing uy ■
concerned in collecting the puhUe m
nue : they are already restrained fin
chuaing their highdietiff to b^ their rep
aeatative; andnow.liieyaretoberMtal
od from ohnainf any placemen, ba|
thoae oxospted hi Aia Bin lUBii^ii
true, a now rastratat, but it can n» mi
besaidtobean htftingonmne ofthtrt
pie's Kbeities,- dum confining a mraj
canboaaidtobeaa infrragenanl of]
liber^; frr if tim people wore not a4
or somelliiag worse, Ihoj neier tnll
chase a man as tho cnasdian ofMrl
bertiea, that mnst either fiwfeit te
live post ho enjoys, or betrav Us
ministers who can, and pvobauy wiD^
Ms post firom him if be does not, aad
have aiwayofoy ezperienco boei "
be the greatest eneaMes to lbe1ibertiBi<
the people. ^
I nope I have now made it ippeflr,li|^
dns Bill is no fasfrmgement eidberof
prerogatives of the crown or the
of the people; but that, on the
it ii aiisolutdy necessary lor
our constitution, by preventing a
terial and eerrapt inmenoe in
I shall next proceed to examine die
of this and such like BiMs, iaoidtrto
whether they deserve to be calM dm
roring of friction, nnned upbyilny
mscontent. This, I know, my loidi^
scandal that has been thrown by vkM
and their favourites upon all the Umm
have for securing the liberties ef the fiif
pie. The Habeas Corpus BIO wW) b^ di
miaisterB of thai time, reckoasd mi
frctiouS Bill, that when it wasfintbro^
in, the parliament was prorogued beml
it could be sol ready for the royal aaoA
The Triemnal Bill was reckoned socbt
Ihctions Bill, that king Williaai \mMtd
by his ministers, to refuse it the n^ili^
sent, the first session it was otwented;
and would perhaps* have done tke HHoeii
the next bobmod, if it had net bees |no
aontod to hnn Jvory eady inilieioaN%
JM^tehO&LofAcilkAeFl^iceSSB.
mh]
m
d long Mm Hie iieoMHvy undies
oeallgfttted. ikad the laws we hafte
itficwtMg pensioaen Mid the ooUeo
i» of OB' puMC fevenue firoai havings
liti in ihe Home of CommoM, hate
pKi*By been seandalixed in the twoie
pner by auDietefs and their &vourites ;
n d JDOfMRtial men wiU admk, thatthoee
piiweie the ofimnng of a trae publico
pit mA tiat if t&ej were naned by dia-
jiMty it iwte a discontent that proceeded
|a the illegal and oppvesBirey or conrupt
jwdcw of oar miairterk
Ibo^widi regard to the B^ near be-
Hesi^ I abaD grant, that this, or sone
pebBfli at ifaia, has been often brought
and has been as often op»
nanislera; hot I never heard
Bills proceeded ftoas fiu^on;
tl»aobfe lord meant by insinaalingr
[th^pectiaBaent was wmt destroyed %
9h Bin, is what I cannot oompc)^
fory 1 hepa, ha wifl not caM the
hf hield here towasds Ac end of
Cmurles the first's reign a parliament,
' Setf-DeayfagOrdbsnoe an aet of
t. That asgesibly had before,
I ef their moif^ destveyed the
of oar ceastitation, andno won-
an anny should ai last destroy the
ig shadow, espeolally after it begaA
) be tPseUesome to them, and faamd
like whdie idngdom. But thattb God!
kavsm yet nesoch army to deal with,
(btfae eharaeter of this parliament as
despioahle among the people.
)bs«<e nodiiiiff to fear from tlie swords
aimy, as long as liheir chief officers
^ members of tiiis or tlie odier House of
piinaeaC, which tliis Bill does not pre-
jtt: their votes only we have to feer, in
pt toe gteat a numher of subelterns
Mdlumen to he membem of the otiiev
wae. This we ought to prevent, and
k eveiy raSn of honour in the army wffl
riit us in preventing, eenpedally such of
Im as have no hopes ci becomiing the
Mberg of the o&er House, which is^by
irAe giSMest part, and, I belie?e, by
Ml die best part of the soldiers.
We eaimot therefore, my lords, draw
IJ trmnent from what happened in that
letended parliament which murdered
Inrk&ig, aoter having destroyed the con-
Stution of their country ; and as no such
ir as thitf kias ev^r yet taken place, we
tasol pretend to kntoW, from ea^erience,
a; baa eftct it will produce: biitasse-
M mch Bills have neen brought in ; as
im Bffli were all biought in by those
A.B.19CI.
to
eoosSitalicli, and eppeeed
iribo by Acar
friends to oar
by those who have always appeared to ]
ita greatest enemiea, I mean our ministesa
of states .and as no inconvenience, baft
great benofit, has aecmed finxn that hnr
which disabka commissioners simI efisera
of our onstoms or excise froas being men»^
hers of the other Hoose, expenenee moA
mva ns a fiirouraUe opinion ef this BilL
Can it be said, that in the year 1698, ww
were influenced by any mdious dmxo^
teats? Andyatin that wtar, such a Bili
as this, wUch wasiatitle^ ^ A BiDssachi*
iag free and imaeitiai Prooeeduigs in Ptew
Uament,' passed both Hoosss^ bnt by tiui
advice of the sninistafs was reftned tto
soyal aasent; as seaeral otfieia had beaw
dadng die beoiasiii^ of that raign. GibiI
it be sappesec^ thai m the yw 170), ww
wese govemed l^ way faetions
tents? And yet in the Aet of Ael
Aen passed, ttiees was an emnessd
fer exduding al idaeemen nan hi
seats in the Heaae of CoBBmons^ afta
Settlement then estaUiBhed shoaid
phoe, which dause met with the ajpoedbapf
tion, not only of both Houses of^Paiiia«
ment,batoftfhecn»mitBel£ Andsare^
ao asan wfll deroaate: sa amdi from tha
known eearaaaof Idna William, aa tosan^
that he woaU have a&wed faiaiself ta bw
bullied by ainriaetion' OP party into a as*'
gulatioB, whash* he thei^ght would stnfa#
at the soot ef oar ^constitution. Ihia
clause, it is true, was aflmamwlb as iht^
qoeen'stime repealed; botlwiah the doUa
peers who were the promotees of thaH
repeal, had considered a little- motietfaeir
own diaracters, as well as the censtitotioar
of their coontiy; for if diey had^ thejv
mt^ perhaps have made soma saoh ai&«
captions as ate oontamad in this BiU, bui^
r am sure, they would never have ametf
to, and much less proposed a genaiai awt
absolute repeal of that clause.
Even now, my lords, we amy be liaMe'
tosome discontents; botif weaite, theyare'
far from being ihotious discontents : thejf
are most justifiable discontents: they arar
such as have been occaaoned by measuiaa
which have brought this nation into dls».
grace, and Europe to the brink of deslrue--
tlon : measures which could not have been*
carried on, if such a law as this had beeai
in being; and measures aMeh our latesi
posterity may have cause to load with iai*
pt^cations. If many gentlemen of;thtf
other House, and perhaps some of ^i^
lordshipsf predecessors had aotbeenbiois-
15 OSORG£ IL IMaU in the Lords on the Place SB.
•07J
edby thA honoiunble or lacralivtt employ-
meaU possessed or expected, it is impos*
sible to suppose, that parliiraaents woul|d
liave approred of meaJBUcesi the fiital con-
sequences of ffhich were so emphatically
foretold at the time, and have since been
so AiUy verified by the event ; therefore,
the Bill now before us cannot be supposed
to proceed from faction or fory,.but from
a true regard to our constitution, and a
well grounded jealousy of a ministerial
corrupt influence in parliament.
. It seems to be a misfortune, that some
rfyour lordships can never properly dis-
tinguish between the crown and the minis-
ters of the crown, which often brings con-
cision into our debates; and yet there is
ttothing more plain than that distinction
has been made by our constitution. The
crown ouj^t certainly to be a check upon
all its ministers, and all those employea in
tiie executive part of our government ; it
IS not only the duty but the interest of the
king to take care, or to have care taken,
that none of those he employs shall make
a bad use of the power ne mtrusts them
with, or the coimdence he reposes in
them ; but this is too extensive a task for
any king whatsoever, especially the king
of such a large and populous kingdom as
this is ; and therefore by our constitution,
she king is to be assisted in the perform-
formance of this duty by his parliament.
We are never to enquire into toe conduct
of our sovereign : our constitution tells us
he can do no wrong; but by his appomt-
ment, we are to examine the conauct of
his ministers and counsellors; and it is his
interest that we should faithfully and im-
jpartially perform this duty. If the ma-
jority df the other House should consist of
those emploved by the crown in the execu-
tive part of our government, would not
they then be both judge and party ? Is it
then possible to suppose, that such a House
of Parliament would faithfully and impar-
tially perform this duty to their sovereign ?
To prevent this imposisibility is the desien
of this Bill. It sets up no standard of di-
vision between the crown and the parlia-
ment, but is calculated for preventing the
jMurliament's being engagea in an interest
not only separate from, but opposite to
the interest of the crown, I mean that of a
Kilty minister ; and therefore I must beg
ve to say, that, in my opinion, whoever
argues agamst this. Bill, argues against the
interest, tlie glory, and the happiness of
bis sovereign.
I am surprised, my lords, to bear it said
[«
iatfais Rouse, that in order ;«•' be a Ion
high admiral/ or a lord high treasuitt, i
is necessary for a man to befiist animdei
clerk in the office. At this rate none «
vour lordships could ever be cspsbiec
being in any of these high offices, no aq
any of your posterity ; snd yet both tha
high offices have often been most woitid
filled, and most duly executed by son
of your ancestors, without haYiog en
before had an opportunity to learn si
thing of the intricate routine of these si
fices. From experience we knov, th
most oi our great offices may be ezecste
by men who, from their birth and qoaiin
could never descend so. low as to be
derk in the office ; and under such oid
I believe, the dutj of the office will aim
be more faithfolly performed, than it von
be, should a little fellow of an under-dd
be raised by the favour of a prime iniai
ter, to be at the head of the office, ?ij[j
is not unlikely to happen, if iiO:aii|
Bill as this should ever be passed aA
a law*
I shall grant, my lords, that in theaai
few gentlemen are made, or indeed oip
to be made colonels or generals, widiort
having first been ciqptains, or periM
subalterns; not because of their incapsa^j
or ignorance, but because it would \»i
discouragement to the service, and aaia
justice to those inferior officers whohairi
a title to be advanced. But can ve iifi
pose, that any voung gentleman who hij
a mind to raise nimsdirin the army, weQU
throw up his commission rather tfaao H
seat in parliament i Or is it neccsatq^
that a young gentleman of family and &p^
tune should be in the other House sflfaoa
as he comes of age, and consequently bsii
a share in governing the nation, Mn
he can well be supposed capable to gs*
vem himself? This is so far from bog
necessary, that, I believe, it would lit
happy for the nation to have a reguktioi
made, that no man should be capable <i
being chosen a member of theotberUooie^
till sSter his being thirty or forty yeaad
age ; and therefore it is with me an aigo-
ment in favour of this Bill, that it woud
prevent the other House's being filled
with young gentlemen, who are more fond
of a cockade than of the liberties of their
country.
Such gentlemen, my lords, will alwajft
prefer their having a conmiission in the
army to their having a seat in psdiament;
consequently this Bill will prevent no sodi
gentleman of family and f^rtuoe fion
mfmxk BiM, k what I caimot oottpc)^
knd; for^ 1 httM, be will DOt caM the
meaUf h^d h»« lowavda Ae «id of
tm Ciiarles the first's reisn a parliaflwnty
crttetrSetf-DeftjfagOrduumoe an aet of
Hat aBseoihly had befose,
ef their moifj destroyed the
iteace of oar eeoaiitetioD, asid no wen-
4rwcb anarnrjr aheuld ai last desnoy the
■ottoiDgihadoes espeolaUy after it began
It be trseUasettie to then, and faeteftd
l» tke whdle kiligdom. ButthankGodl
whaveai vet nesuch army to deal with^
tRiitfaediaraeterof this parliament as
C become despioable among the people.
have nothide to fear from the swords
ifoorsRDy, as £>og as their chief effioers
xe members of this or tiie other Hoase of
fttliaaient, which thfe BiQ does not pre-
heat: their votes <mly we have to fear, in
ttte toe great a number of subalterns
ikuUharaen to be members of the otiier
Howe. This we ought to provent, and
^ e?ery man of honour in the army wiO
laiit us in preveaUng, especially such of
^ Si have no hopes ci becoming the
■onben of the other House, which is by
k the gieasest part, and, I believe, by
n»ch^ best part of the soldiers.
We cannot therefore, my lords, draw
•By ugoment from what hapnened in that
P^ded parliament whicn murdered
■^jdog,flAker having destroyed the oon-
ibbition of their country; and as no such
^ SB thitf hEBs ever yet taken phu», we
<i>>not pretend to kne#, from ea^rience,
tBybsdcfectitwfllpfodttoe! but as se-
veral such Bills have been brought m; as
^ BOhi weie aU brought in I7 those
W] JMhdehO^LofAoA At Plaice SSB.
aid long hafere the neoessavy supaKee
were sll grsnted* AaA the laws we have
forptefsating jpensioaers and the ooliec-
Un of oar pubfic revenue from having
Mta in the House of Commons, hanw
geDeraOy bean seandaliaed in the sanae
Banner Vy aunisters and their &vountes ;
but ail impartiai men wiH admit, thatthoee
Bisweie the o&pring of a true pubiict
firki sad tiat if they were nursed by dis-
coDtest, it was a discontent that proceeded
ina the iBsgal and oppressive, or commt
piGQociOioar mmistefs.
Theo, widi xegacA to the BiU now be*
fiDieia^ I shall grant, that this, or some
aicbM as this, has been often brought
iateMdisaMDt, and has been as often op*
NMd by nmiislen; but I never heard
m Mich BIlis pieeeeded from frction;
Whit the noble lord meant by msMalmgr
Ihit the parliament wes ever destroyed by
A. 1X190. [OM
Vy Adr cdoduai appeaaM to tkr
frienda to oar eooslitatiato, and eppsaad
byihose who have always appeared to hiw
ita greatest eoemiea, I mean our minislem
of states and as no inconvenience, baa
greaa benefit, has necrued finmi that hnr
which dasablea oommiBsioners and eficem
of oor oustoms or excise from being men^*'
bora of the other Heose, experienee musa
mve us a firrouvaUe opinion ef this BUL
Can it be said, that in the vear 1(598, ww
were influenced by any mctious dnooo**
tents? And yet in that wtar, such a Bill
as this, which was incitle^ ^ A BiD tsnehi*
iag free and impavtiai Proceedings In Aow
Uameat,' passed both Houses^ bnt by tim
adviGe of the yninistefs was reftned th^
soyalnBsent; as aeeeral otfiara hadbenn
dniing the beanm|^ ef thai reign, dni
it be sapposec^ thai m the yMV 170), mm
wene governed l^ wof faetioas 4iaeon*'
tents? And yet in the Aet off
Aeti paBsed, ttiere was m
ibr excluding al plaeen
seats in the meae of Commens^ :
Settlement then mhk^hf^ shoeid takn
pfaioe, whioh dause met with the nppB*ap»
tioD, not only of both Houaes of^FaiiMN
meiit,hiitoftfhecroBmitBel£ Andsarel|^
no asan will deronee: so iBnch from thn
known oonrane of Idnn William, as tesan^
that he wonU have afinred hiaoself te bn
bullied 1^ any fection or party into n p^
guladen, which he thei^ would atiifa^
at the root ef ear ^ooDstitutieB. Ihie
clause, it is true, was aflmwnwfc as iht^
queen's time rep^ded ; but I wish the doUw
peers who were die promoeem of liiall
repeal, had considered n little meaa-theiF
own characters, as well asdie canstitutionF
of their country; for if tbey had^ thejv
might perhaps hnve made some snoh ei&«
oeptions as ate oontamed m this BiU, botv
lam sure, they would never have 1
to, and mudi mbs proposed a |
dwolute repeal of that dense.
Even now, my lords, we may be liable'
tosome discontents ; but if we aie, they are
fiur from being ihotious diBContents : thep
are most justifiable discontents: they aver
such as have been occasioned by measurae
which have brought Ais nation into dia^
grace, and Europe to the brink of destruc-
tion: measures which could not have been*
carried on, if sudi a tew aff this had beetf
m being; and measures wMeh oor latesl
posterity may have cause to load widi im^'
pl^ecations. If mmy gentlemen of;the^
pth^ House, and perhaps some of your
lordshipsP predecessonhad notbeenbiaBs-
CI 11 15 GEORGE IL
Debate in the Commons an trans/erring
$even Irish Regiments to the Briiisn Estar
biishment,'] April 28. The Commoiu, in
« Committee of Supply, resolved, That one
regiment of horse, two regiments of dra-
ffooos, and four regiments of foot, consist-
ing in the whole of 4,000 men, be trans-
feired firom ihe Irish to the British esta^
blishment, for the year 1742 ; and, that
•74,192/. 5s. 4</. be granted for defraying
.the charge thereof: on a division. Ayes
S14, Noesl2S.
April 29. Mr. Fane reported from the
committee of supply the said Resolution,
whereupon,
* Mr. PhiUipsstooA up, and said :
Sir; I attended Yesterday, in the
best manner I could, to the arguments that
were used in the committee of the whole
House, in favour of tlie troops now under
your consideration ; and they were drawn
either from the necessity of supply bg the
queen of Hungary, in order to preserve
the balance of power in Europe, or from
Debate in the Commons
[6ff
• House of Commons, by a majority of 30.
.Amongst those «i ho spoke against it were, Mr.
P. an^Mr. Sandys, ^%ho baring been always
the main promoter of it, were thereby exposed
to a great deal of abuse, both without and
within doors, and undoubtedly, at first sight,
tbeir conduct .was very iDoonsisteot.
**But the truth is, it was both wise and
booest.. They had now learned, that there
was a wide dineience between the speculative
and practical part of gjovemraent, and that how-
ever the late administration had been railed
at, for opposing that and many other popular
motions, the public basiness could not have
been done, bad they taken place. The natioo
was then in a ferment, which was likely to
continue, and had a majority of parliament
been retnnieil, as would prolwbly nave been
tbeease, of men possessed with wild unprac-
licable notions of government, the event, eape-
ciallv when the nation was engaged in a war,
might have been fatal, not to mention many
intcriuetliate incouveuiences. Tlie new pro-
selytes for the Septennial Act urged farther,
that OS the present parliament had obtained the
remofsl of an obnoxious minister, the interest
of the nation was concerned in its continuance,
and that her friends on the continent would loee
ail iheir ooufideuce in her, should a new par-
liament take place. It was on the other hand
urged, that the present parliament had two
more sessions to sit, should the motion pass ;
but that was a consideration which bad no
. weight, since the canvassing and the intriguing
partof eWctions would commence immediately,
and have a ij^reat influence upon geotlemens*
tOadttU liiihia dof»rs.*> Tindai.
the fear of an invasion from some fixeiga
power, in the absence of the 16,000 mea,
that his majesty has ordered to be sent
into Flanders. As to the queen of Huq-
^ary, I believe, this House is unanimous
in their opinion, that she ought to be sup-
ported; and if the question had been,
whether the troops should be sent abroad
to her aBsistance, or not, that ai^ument
would have been proper ; but has no rela-
tion at all to -the present question. His
majesty has, without advising with his
parliament, thought fit to order those
troops to embark, and that matter is not
now under our consideration ; but, I hope,
his ministers are satisfied, that the Dutch
and Hanover troopa will act in concert
with those troops; the embarkation will
then be highly proper and jtistifiable, but
otherwise mad and una<xottntable.
As to the arguments drawn from tbs
fear of an invasion, I cannot think gentle-
men were in earnest when they made use
of them. Otu: navy must be in a profounii
sleep, and our ministers void of intelli-
gence, if they sufier Spain to approach our
coasts ; and as to Fsance, her nuances are
so low, and she has so many armies oq
foot, to make good her engagements to the
new eniperor and her other allies, that it
would be ridiculous to imagine, she would
attempt to invade us, especially when wa
liave an army marching to her frontiers.
It was said, a necessity mi^ht arise of
sending more troops abroad ; if so, wiU it
not be time enougn to send troops abroad
directly from Ireland, when that necessilj
i^pears, and cannot they be soon replaced
by new raised troops here ? What azjgU'^
nient, then, can be used for taking into
our pay tliis additional number of troops?
None but what prevailed in the time of tbe
late administration, but which, I was in
hopes, would have died with them, that it
is always necessary to keep up a large
standing army in England; a dangerous
doctrine ! and I will venture to say, that
whoever advises a British king to delight
in a standing army, is an enemy to bis
country, as it tends to enslave the people,
and instead ofbeing a security to the crown
alienates the affections of the subject, and
creates murrourings and jealousies; for
when people feel, they will complain.
And I cannot help expressing the great
surprise I was imder yeaterdfinr, to hear so
many gentlemen that are professed friends
to liberty, advocates for tbe increase of oar
army. The supplies already granted
amoust to above 5(Js^fiO0L ; the embark-
6133 on iramfhfing Stoen Irish Regiments^ Sfc. A. D. 174A
[614
aiioD of the troops, as they coneist of so
manj hone and dragooiis, will greatly
increase that sam ; and, I am sure, this
oation is not in a condition to be at any
expence that is not absolutely necessaiy
for its safety. That these 4,000 men are
necessary for that end, I cannot at aJl be-
lieve, and therefore, most give my nega-
tive te them.
The hon. centleman that made the mo-
tion yesterday in the committee, (sir
William Yonge,) was pleased to say, that
when the 16»000 men are embarked, vou
woddnot have above 11,000 men left in
the idngdom. I am satisfied a less num-
b«r will be sufficient in our present cir-
cmnstanoes for the security of the king-
dom ; but I beg leave to take notice, that
the 1,600 men that are coming over from
Minorca, instead of those that are to be
sent there, are not included in that num-
ber, neither are the marines, and though
many of these are abroad, yet they are not
sll; I am sure man^ of the officers are at
h<Hne, and they might sooi) raise men to
serve in place of those that we have been
obliged to send to help to man the fleet.
Shsll we never have done increasing the
forces ? An army of 66,000 men is incon-
sistent with the constitution, and must one
day rain it. I was in hopes the redressing
of grievances would at least have kept pace
widi the granting of supplies ; but, alas !
the one has quite distanced the other;
and the great expectations from this par-
liament wili> I fear, end in nothing, but
granting more forces and more money,
&aii has been granted in any parliament
within the so much talked of period of
tventy years past.
Mr. Winningion:
Sir ; in all countries, especially in
this, the people expect to be protected
by their government, they expect to be
lecared eren from the approach of danger,
sod yet they grudge every expence which
beccunes necessary for that purpose : this
readers if popular to oppose all public
meanirea, because every public measure
must be attended with a public expence ;
md this very oftep, I believe, creates a
prejodice in gentlemen who are fond of
popukrity, which raakea them judge amiss
of almost every measure,'and every pre-
ootion that can be taken by the govern*
iKnt It is to this prejudice that 1 must
^mte Uie oppcaition which the measure
>ov under our > conaideratton has met
^; fi>r if we consider it impartially.
and without prejudice, there can nothing,
I thank, appear more prudent or rooro>
reasonable. That the queen of Hungary '
ought to be supported, that she ought to .
be assisted, has been for some time almost*
the universal cry of this nation : we ou^t,^
they say, to assist her, not only in coti-
quence of our engagements, but in order'
to preserve ourselves, by maintaining the-
balance of power. Whether I concur ia
this general opinion, it is not now neces-
sary to declare ; but now, when it is re- •
solv^ to send troops to her assistance,
and some of those troops are, for our do-
mestic security, to be replaced by others, .
gentlemen begin to find fault with bothr
these measures, because both must be at-
tended with a public expence.
We are told, that it will be mad and
unaccountable to send our troops abroad,
unless we are well assured that thosa
troops will be joined by the troops of some
other powers. Suppose we were not sure
of being joined by the troops of any other
power in Europe, except those of the
aueen of Huneary herself, yet I cannot
link it would be either mad or unac-
countable to send a large body of troops
over to Flanders; because it will shew,
that we are not only willing but ready to
join with those other powers of Europe,
who have certainly as great an interest,
and ought to have an equal concern for
preserving a balance of power in Europe.
There are several states and princes in
Europe, who at present affect a neutrality,
and yet we cannot suppose, they are quite
easy at seeing the House of Bourbon
giving laws to the princes of Germany,
and appropriating to itself the greatest
part of Italy. Even the princes of Ger-
many themselves, who at present continue
neutral, and, perhaps, some of those who
are now joined in alliance with France,
may be prevailed on to join in a confe-
deracy for pulling down, or at least for
prescribing bounds to the overgrown
power of that monarchy, as soon as they
see the armies of Britain upon the con-
tinent, and ready to protect tliem against
that power which, in their present situa-
tion, they find they cannot resist. This,
is an effect which this nation has» I am
sure, great reason to wish for : and as the
transporting a body of our troops to Flan-
ders, will be attended but with a very
small additional expence, and can be at*
tended with no other inconvenience, I
think it is worth our while to make tha
trialy even though we be not previously
aai
15 GBOB0B JL
iUtal0m^eommm0
[m
•ftnrdl, that nther die JMd^ or mj
dbBr state in Europe^ will jomth^ir troops
with oarsy ov enter into any confederacj
for the su|p|Mirt ef the mieen of IbmgBojf
cr for lunitihg the anbitaoue Tiews m the
Bouse of Boarbon.
Front hence, I hope. Sir, k will appear
that the enbarhation of oor troope can in
no caie be deemed mad or muieeoantaUe;
but when we send oar troops out of the
hiagdem, it would oerisiolj be both mad
and unacooiantable to leave thii island
destitute of a sufficient nanber of troope
for its defeace, and for seeuriag its do-
loestic tranqutlhtj. Whatever otters may
think of the disaflbcted party amongst as,
Ihave so great an attncament to our pre*
sent happy establisliment, and to the royal
fiunily now upon our throne, that I am
still jealous of that party, and apprefaea-
aive of their power. True love, tbey say,
is always mixed with jealousy : and this
makes me dread every opportonity, the
disafiected may think they have got, fee
putting their designs in execotion. There
ore stdl many gentlemen of igure nsd
fortune amongst us, who open^ profess
their attachment to the Pretender: there
is a sort of enthusiastical spirit of disaffec-
tion that still prevails among the vulgar:
and, I am afraid, there is by Ar too great
a number of men of all ranks and oondS*
tions, who now seem to be true friends to
the Protestant succession, that would de-
ckre themsehres otherwise, if they thought
they could do so without running any
ipreat or unequal risk. These considera-
tions shall always make me jealous of the
Jacobite party's getting any opportunity
to rebel, and this they have always thought
they had, and always wiU think they hafve,
when they see the nation destitute of
troops; for which reason, I shall always
be for keening in the island, in tune of
war, as well as in time of peace, such a
number of regular troops as may be suffi-
dent for awing them into obedience.
But the danger of an insurrection at
home, is far from being the only danger
we have to apprehend nom not having in
the island a sufficient number of troops for
our defence. The danger of an invasion
from abroad, with the Pretender at the
head of it, is equally to be apprehended ;
and the nature of these two dangers is
BUch, that each contributes to the increase
of the other. We are now in actual war
with Spain, and as we are vastly superior
in naval force, even though she should be
openly atvatad by I^anoQi she oan cxyeot
nosuecaii: she Must dread llieeftctiaid
the eve»t of thaa war» unlem she csn nim
Must wo *«a then expoca, is it aot ceitais,
that she wilt oati every art Asa csn be
thonglM of, for IhrnwiDg 8 or M^^NOoT
her beat troape into this island, withtka
Pretender aad sene af hia adhersnta at
their head i And is it not as ce?t«n, thst
upon their landing m any past of the iriaad,
they wouM be joined not oriy hj all tht
diadfected, bnt by all those of despenle
fortunes, wW are aliwaya more ready to
join in overturning^ ihaR m t
established gavemoMnt; beooMse,
their ssmesa in the fensMT, they must ex-
pod gieater enoearageaiena thaa thsy
can expect frona their sMoesa in the Utter.
Spam, we k«iiw,hasa suflhacmt number sf
troopa to 9put for this purpnw ; and we
knew what a small number-of ships wonli
be SMAdeMt for transportinff HM)OOfoot
and dismounted drageona frMi Spaia te
the southern, or aonth-weat parts of thh
idaod t for they would have no occasion te
transpoet horse to ncoontr]f where hoisii
arft so pJentifol, and which is so muck in«
cbsed, that horse can, in very fow jphKcs,
cosae to a rsgufaur engagemeat, Tmatj
or thirty good aserchaat shipa wonU ke
snfBciant for audi a purpose; and theif
might bo provided, the troopa embarked
and even landed here, belbne our court
could have any intel%enoe of the deiiga,
which would have Imn the case in lbs
17A8, if their fleet had not at Ihst
met w\A an nocidantat atorm mk
contraiy winds.
Our navy, Sar, mm bo useibl, itwillsl*
ways be sufficient, I hopo^ to defend m
against a formidable invasion, because ve
must have intelligence of the design, long
before the neosssary preparations can be
made for such an invasion ; and rnqrvh^ t
superior squadron, lock the onemjns fleet
up in their port, before it can be readf to
sail; but against a sodden invasion wHh s
small force, such as I have mentk>aed,oar
navy can never be a sufficient security*
For defending us against auch aninmsisnj
we must always have a Sufficient numker
of troops in tae island ; and I must leave
to gentlemen to consider what a woeU
and dangerous condition we should he in,
if 1Q,000 of the vntenm troops of Spsia
were landed in ib^ southern or wsitsm
parts of dus kland» and we had but 10 or
12,000 regukr troops in the whaia iissda
they might aaafch to our capital, drire tke
rcgral iipily. and aH itn fiieni^ bm
. [618
hngte «f wmimm m H%, ^ Imm tMi
islaoA 4miHila otm vmibw of trotps mfr
fUimi £9r MtQcbmi MB ^g^inil an inia-
sioo^ that cMi te Mda iuddenlT and w^
amrtts aa4 a» the tm^ we tav» Mir
i» dii» khmd, together wuh tht tfoofM Uh
b^farougbft firoQi lydaod^ m«A m^rt Ihut
auff cient f#r Aat puvpoae, I tumm kM
appiroTe #f their bewg breu^t Ulbef, uA
mutt thenctee ho for (Mrovidiaf (m thtir
I7J Off fc^ffiif^rrMf ibv^lMiA jB^'mai^^, 4^. A. Z>i Vt4A
itmte,, md ^^Ime Ae nmto^ apen the
irooe« httee we coald bviag au. e^ual
ante «F ev renlar tMopa tegether t»
^MsetheA; ana if tbcsf could do ^Ui^
rho can af , that our segnlav aroiy ilselfr
r a graa£ part of it» wedd not daclace \m
irwtf of the ianredera ?
The daegef of as invaaimi fiMsa SpiNa»
I not therefora such e bugbear^ aa aooie
;enl]emaB aaam iaeliued toi rapreanittt:
Ml vfm wndiag onr treopa to Fkndeia,
$^ it Bot tibcai the ealjr cointiy from
rUnce a» iamdon atay he jnady appie-
ndel The deaigB ca aor aeMoiDg our
itxiptinlQFlaiidertiawcM known: itmutt
^ to ciioiBiacYJbe the viewa of Fraeoe^
r (bectlj to attack that kingdon. Either
tf these will ouihe Prance ear eoeiOTy and
riHindnee that court to eoAtrif«» if petti*
lie, bow to aaake an ianraaieD upon ut.
Thsj are, it it troe^ at pratent at a pireei
iipeaces they have loat great araiet in
Gumtay: they have atiU great araMot
hn; but Aey have hkewite greet aratiaa
of regular troope at home^ atuch mere
lltB would betuffictant ftr ataUag an is*
UBoa upon ut» if we had but lOer l^OOD
ttgttltr trpepa in the whde itland; and
mnew aee, that diay wtU be in danger
if lostag all the nooey they have tpent,
udaU Uie bhMd they hnre apiit» without
being able to reap any benefit to theaa-
nlref ; unleat they can divert the newer
tf tliia nation by raiting e mil war
mtogtt enctelTe& Can we tupaoBt» thai
ip thete civcnBtttancet they will not at*
ttapt aaaking an invatieeL upon nt» if by
Mr (Mm fltitoandnct we put it any way in
Ikir power? By the tupenovity of onr
nvil fbrcet and by keeping a ttnmg
i^oadcon in the chairad, we may prevent
oar being tfaie to make an invaaton upon
u with any fiimiidable army ; but conai-
Mug hew many porta they have within a
inr hoinra tai of our coast, how many
and barks fit for
^ fishing vettdsy
tnosportiog soUiera in tuch a thort vovngey
^qrhave in every pert, and how w^ ec«
^Qied their annuglert are with every
treek and comer of our ahore^ we mutt
idrnk, that it would be very eaay for them
to enbark and hmd 10 or 12,000 of their
Wtmopa upon our southern coast, be«
knve conid any way hear of their design,
or lend ai^ squadron to ditappoint thm ;
&d tUs, we nuiy depend en it, they would
tttapt, if they knew that we had no suf-
Unt nomher ef regular troopto to march
^ attack thein as soon at hmded. I
it :irould he die
Our aniiy» &u as it is a* preaeut ata^^
deUed and commanded, it ta far fcani
being dangeroua either to the libeity or
propeitv of the sid^)ect» theft I think it thti
surest pledge we have for the ^u&tt enjoyW'
meat of both. I thought to under tna
lateadninittratien: I that) think aa uador
every adatiaittratioa^ unlest I tee an eif^
tempt made to model it to, at to make ii
fit fitr aerving the edda ef t^eae that majr
am at arhitnir/ power. And at to thin
millions we have raited, or may he ohUged
to raiae» I wonder to hear them rnmpleiaed
of by gentlemen, who, unon former eccap»
tiona, exchiuned ae muea against out in^ '
activity, and who have hitefy eppeared tei
sanguine for supnoiting^ the oiteen ef Hun*
fmy. Surely, tiiey do not think* that war
IS to be casried on without the aid ef miU
liona; or that our soldiers aad seemen am
to fi^ their battlea for thaoo^ without tht^
usuil tuhsitlenee. I with we codd reist^
ten times aamany millions as we do; I aat
aure^ I shoukl think the whole well be^
stowed, if thersby we could procure aeefia
and honourahle peace bath for Europe ent
ourselves. We may, nerhaps. Sir, for I
have not made the cattculaiKm, ha^e at
pramt above 60,000 soldiers^ if ell tha
regimcats were complete, hetidet foreign
troops in our pay ; but no maa can ima^
gine we have as yet too many, for if thai
war contiauety and becomes general, wa
nMBt raise more, or, at least, we must taha
a much greater numher of foreign troope
into our pay; and 1 never heard that an
army upon the continent, or any army but
an army kept up in this island, in time of
peace, and without the content of parlia«
ment, was of dangerous conseqvence ta
our constitution; therefore I rantt thtnk^
that no gentleman can, with reaton, find
fiiuk with the number of troops we hava
now in our pay, were that number twice
as great aa it is at present.
Gentlemen sttil talk of grievancat^ and
of redretting criavanoes at the sane tiaaa
we grant supj^ies. They have harped an
mudi dunng thia aeanon npea diptstriag^
8
619]
15 GEORGE 11.
that the subject is in some meatare become
ludicrous. Surely^ if they think any thing
a grieTance, they ought to put the ques-
tion fiiirly to the House, and na?e it voted
tfi be 80| before they talk of having it re-
dressed; especially, as the^ know that
there are many gentlemen in this House
who happen to difer from them in opinion,
with re4>ect to every grievance they have
been pleased to give us the least hmt of;
for some of those things they have been
g leased to mention as grievances are, 1
elievci by a majority of the House,
thought to be national benefits, and others
are, by the same majority, thought to have
no present existence. Therefore, till the
question is fairly stated, and the opinion
of the House taken upon it, which is the
only way I can think of for determining
the question, it is impossible to tell what is
me is not a grievance, or whether we have
at all any grievance to complain of. For
my own part, I do not think we have any
grievance but one to complain of, and that
IS, our having a set of gentlemen amongst
usy who oppose every measure of govern-
ment, merely because they had no share
in advising it, nor are like to have any
share in carrying it into execution. This,
I shall grant, is a real grievance, but
this grievance we have been always plagued
with, and always, I fear, will, as long as
we preserve our liberties; therefore I shall
never think of havin|^ it redressed: I
shall only recommend it to all those who
have now, or shall hereafter have, the
honour of being members of this House,
to consider seriously and impartially every
question that comes before them, and
to give their vote upon that side which
appears most suitable to the true interest
of their country ; for if this advice be fol-
lowed upon the present occasion, I make
AO doubt of havmff the concurrence of a
great majority of this House, in agreeing
with our committee upon the subject now
under our consideration.
Mr. Careu) :
Sir ; whether I am ever misled, or
whether 1 may be ever misled by an affection
for popularity, I shall ngt pretend todeter-
Bdine; but I must acknowledge, and I
glory in the acknowledgment of it, that I
do affect popularity ; I do covet the es-
teem and good opinion of my countrymen :
I shall always covet it: and whatever
mudemen may pretend, if they do not en-
oasrvoor to be popular, it is not because
"^ despiseit^but because they find the
Dehaie in the Commom
pursuit inconsistent with their vanity, their
avarice, or some other more ridicukraa
passion. I am sure,'an affectation to be a
courtier may, and does muchoftener, misJ
lead men, than an afiectation to be popa^
lar ; for when the people are fully informed^
and have had time to conskler a thin^
coolly and seriously, we seldom find theii
judge amiss ; and the reason is, became
they have nothing in view but the publiei
good, whereas a court has seldom the!
public good in view sq much as some pri-!
vate interest of its own. This obsenratiOD,
which is founded in reason, is confimcd br'
experience ; for through our whole histott
we ^all find, that where the court aoj
people have happened to be of differeot
opinions, the people have almost always
been in the right. 1 do not however say,
but the people may sometimes be intfce
wrong : when their passions are infiamed,
or when they have not a proper in*
formation, they may judge amiss; and
when this is the case, it is the duty of
every man who di£fers from them, to en-
deavour to set them right, and to maintait
resolutely that opinion which he thinks
most reasonable ; but upon such occasiocs,
a man ought to examine and re-examine
his own opinion, and to take great care
that he is not misled by some private pas*
sion or view of his own.
1 wish eveiy gentleman in this Hoose
would follow this method : if they did, we
should have no contest. Sir, about the ex-
pediency of free and frequent jpariiaroeots;
nor about the truth of several facts which
some gentlemen now seem to doubt of, or
positively to deny. *We should all join in
declaring Septennial parliaments to be a
grievance ; for except the second parlia-
ment of kine Charles ^, or rather the lint
called by him, 1 do not know that ever
any parliament lasted so long as seven
years, till the Septennial Bill took place;
and since that time, I doubt if thej have
improved either in their dignity or use.
We should all join in declaring it to be a
grievance, to have amy member of tiiis
House in danger of losing the best part of
his subsistence by voting according to bis
conscience ; and we should all join in
having such a suspicion of the late conduct
of our public aflairs, as ought to be deemed
a sufficient ground for a strict enquirV'
In all these things the people without
doors almost univereally concur; and if
no gentleman amonsst us was misled by
his attachment to the court, or to aoioe
priyate vieir or passtoo of Us ovo,l«n
RlJ on transferring Smw Irish Hi^imentSf Sfc. A. D. 1742.
Ce»
persuaded ire should here be pretty una-
oimous ID the same opinipn. We should
likewise, in this case, be unaoimout, I be-
lieve, in our opinion^ that conaidering the
preat number of troops we have now on
toot, we niieht safely spare to send 16,000
of diem to Flanders, without calling over
m regiments from Ireland ; for surely it
will not be said, that those regiments,
while they remain here, can be of any ser-
vice to toe queen of Hungary : on the
contrar)', they will do her a prejudice, by
consuming a part of our public revenue
which otherwise might be sent to her ; and
every one must grant, that ready money is
the sort of assistance she stands most in
needotl
The fear of an invasion or an insurrec-
tioD in favour of the Pretender, is such a
ihread-bare ai^ument, that I am surprised
to hear it agam seriously made use of in
Ihis House. What the hon. gentleman
aid of the redress of grievances may much
nore justly be applied to the fear of the
Pretender; for this argument is never
Bttde use of lately, but you may see a ge-
nenl smile spread itself over the whole
Hoase. Nay, in the countenance of every
fentleman who makes use of it, you may
lee such a contrast as is generally observed
in the countenance of a young widow upon
the lo6s of an old husband. She affects a
Mrrow, but in spight of all she can do, her
ioTard joy breaks forth in the disposition
of &QQ)e of her featu^res. I hope, all the
^otlemen of this House have a real affec-
tion for our present royal family ; but I
tuh, some of us would shew a little more
t&ctloD for the liberties and constitution
<^our country ; for whoever betrays them
^ his jealousy or fear of the Pretender,
does our present royal family more harm
by hi« jealousy, than he can ever do it good
b) his afection.
h would be easy, 3ir, to shew the im-
ppssibility, or at least the improbability of
^ the iosurrectiops and invasions we have
^ terrified with in this debate ; but it is
>oself efid^o^ and has been so often and
•0 follj explained upon former occasions,
^at I do not tiiipk it worth my while to
«large upon the subject. Therefore, 1
•ball only observe in general, that by some
l^tlemen's way of arguing upon this sub-
ject, they make a very bad compliment to
jw present royal family,' or to those who
^"f^ to aflisction for that family; for by
oisgnifying to wch a degree the danger
»e should be in from an insurrection or
wdden invaiipn in favour of the Pretender,
they must either suppose, that his majesty
has no affectionate subjects except tnose
who are inlisted in his army, or tliey must
suppose, that those who are well affected
towards our present royal family^ have so
little courage, that they will neither risk
their lives nor their fortunes for that fa-
mily, upon which, they think, their liber-
ties, properties and religion depend. But
however free those gentlemen, out of the
abimdance of tbeir affection, may make
with their king or their countrymen, I am
far fVom having Aich m opinion of either.
I am persuaded, his majesty has many
loyal subiects, besides those of his army,
who would be ready to venture both their
lives and fortunes in his defence : I be-
lieve, there are very few who would ven-
ture either for the Pretender; and there-
fore, if by a very extraordinary concur-
rence of events, 10 or 12,000 foreigneia
were landed amongst us, with the Pre-
tender at their head, I am convinced, they
would be joined by very few, but, oiv the
contrary, would soon be overwhelmed by
the numbers of men that would take arms
in defence of their king, and the liberties
of their country.
This I hope, Sir, is the case at present:
it. will certainly be the case, as long as
the people think that the preservation of
their liberties depends upon the preserva**
tion of our present happy establishment ;
but should tne scene be changed, should
the people find the liberties of their coun-
try oppressed by a numerous mercenary
army, and tliat oppression enforced anji
made legal by a more mercenary parlia-
ment, they would probably turn their eyea,
to the Pretender for relief^; and then if'^he
should land in any part of the island, with
half the number of foreign troops, his army
would increase like a snow-ball ; a few days
march would make it too huge and mighty
for our mercenary army to oppose, ana
the moresot because a great many of the
common soldiers, and perhaps some of the
officers, would certainly desert, and join
the invadins enemy. I must therefore
think, that those gentlemen who are for
securing the people's loyalty by a nume-
rous mercenary army, are exactly in the
case of a jealous husband, who, to secure
his wife's chastity, locks her up : She will
certainly, some time or other, get an op-
portimity, and the first she gets, she will
certainly make the proper use of, such fui
use as such an husband deserves. Sir, the
English padlock is certainly the besti
olap the padlock upon the minds of tl^
IBB] 15 GSOBGE IL
people: thit cui ik> imv be ^M but hy
trmtinf to themadves tlie defence of their
lEMf ml couoCrf : dkband Ckerafera Tovr
«rmj»ortliegiieateilpftit cf tfaet von mve
«ia occaiieA lor abroad: Hke m poesiiMe
toetbeds to aoAhe yoar people acciwtom
tbetnselveB to anns and military disoiplkie;
and then you can be mAO danger from an
inaurFecdon of a !b«r diaafected penens,
nor ^om any invaaion that oan be made
iipoa yoiit aa long aa yon have a aoperior
foreeataea.
For tbia reaaon. Sir, I muat be of opi-
sifiois ibat ifie bringkig theae rognaenls
.from Ireland and keepiag them here, in-
eiead of preventing an iavaaion, will pro-
bd>ly encourage our enemiea to make fbe
stleHApt; aadinateadof defeatkigitwben
made, Ibey will more probably oontrilmle
-towMda rendenng it ancceaafld. Gentle-
-Men tell ua, Sir^ fbat our army, modelled
-and commanded aa it ia at preaent, can
fiever be dangerous to liberty. For God*8
aalcet bow would tiie^ hare it modelled
amd comaMmded i le it not modelled and
-commanded m the v«ty aame manner tboae
«rmiea were fbat bavo destroyed tbe li-
bertiea of other countriea^? la it not under
fbe albitrary oommand of tbe prime mi-
aiiaer? Are not ail tbe offioerv' commia-
aiom at bia arbkrary diaposal ; Iwfe not
ihey been taogbt for twenty yean, that a
bbml aubmisaion to bia orders, in tnvil aa
wdl aa military afinrs, ia the only road to
pivlerment, «h!e only tenure by wbidi fliey
«aai espect-to bold their commimiona ? Ia
It peaswle «o have an am^ modelled and
^oaamanded in a method more danaeroua
^ liberty? At tbe Hefolution, I Imow,
Sir, it was ^ouppoaed, that no army could
be tkmBOroaa to liberty, but an army kept
•Bp within the iriand, tn time of peace,
without the consent of parliament ; but we
ba?e sineei by experience, been taught
^herwise: Wenowlaiow,tbat'the«tfBcers
^of aa army, -modelled w it is at present,
-may endanger public liberty by timir own
or their friends volea in thia HoOae and at
^eleetionB, more than tbey can do by dieir
rwotiia in tbe fkM; and in thia way, we
kmnv, that an army of Brfitirti aubfeeto,
even m-^icn enipl<»}Kd upon tbe oaotmeot,
or kept ill any of ovR' remote damfinwoa^
wmy he of dangeroua conaeqnence to the
KbertieA of ihtir country, my bon. friend
wm ihM^trf'oie in the right when be aaid,
^^t an army of aboft fl^dOO men ww fe-
nt lin. tl i t \^ cofiatitatiou ; for I shall
ibiuk wo, m bng aa the oficeia* cam-
^~ ^11 m fhbmMismtfi^afomk -of
2Mafr 4n Hfce CaNMHoof
[6fl
What our miinMera inland ta lo wi4
Che troopa now orderad lor nandan, or
what oncounagament tbey nuiv ha? e for
Beading them ihHfaer, I do ootkDav;bui
if they have good reaaon to expect thJ
our taoopa wul be joined by tbe troo{M«|
aome neighbouring atatea, I hope, tbesi
ffegimenta that are to be broo|jht IroiB lie
laM, andaa many more aa we can possible
apare, will be aent after tbe rest. I aid
not aa yet pretend to find laidt wnk thi
raeaaure of aendiog our troopa abroad ; Ih
if it ahould alleiwarda appear, that we hi
no good reanen to hope for hemg^oise
by any other troopa, beaidea thase of tb
queen of Hungary, nor any reason to ei
pect being able to form a confederacy i
Hprour of ihat prtncesa, I shaJl then cei
tainly condemn the aaeaaaae ; fer «uiei
we are notaomadaato iasagineyd^w
are Me to aoppoit ^le Pn^gmatlc S«a(
tion against oH toewowerfal prtaces of tk
empire, united wiOi France and 6pii
ag^nat it ; and if we ahould be oWgm t
bring our troopa back without attefnpAJa
any tbing, we ahail auke a very po(
figune in theeyea 4^ aM Europe, which,
am sure, will no way contribuite tore«tai
our character, but on tfie contrary, «i
aink it at91 lower, if poa^ftde, than m^
puafllaninuty «ad penrplexod negociatioi
nare done. If we ore atitt to da aetfaa
but neffooiate, we mi#ha have asTedoi
ael^^estne expewce of keeping in psy rm
o numeroua army ; or, at le£it, we ni^
have kej>t our mon^ amongst aaiselv«
by keeping our army aft borne. All tl
powers of Europe Imow, ^hat, as we i
masters of tbe aea, and Imve ahravs afca
^Umce of transpoita i^sady at a on, wed
aend«n army to tbe continent wbaeef
we pleaae ; and ^lerefore, tf 4iona af t^
be new mdiaedtojoinw^Iam aire, a
putting ourselves to the eapence of sea
mg a latge body of troopa tbitber, wi^
aome previehn though aeeret aasHraacf
wffl net oiter theb indiaaaioaa, bscaase
will'give tbem a ^^ery bad apiaioB afa
conduct.
The oonacqu€iioe^iKll^ionifiiit, I kof
^ow, tiiat our wfinisieM bad goed aasti
^■eca from theae that oa^lto give tbei
in that caae, I bopc^ the regnaeiits pr
peacd to be btougtit from Irdand will 1
aent aftertherast; buttitl ttrey are f«
or jaat ready-to beoent, I think we ka
nooccasioRtotfttniler themftomtbe In
to tbe Britisb ^rtalilMfnient; far whu
•veaaito I mvst be f^ainst approving tl
naiabitiaaof^Dar4iOttaaillee.
m] MtrmufiaringSiv$nJtitiIUgimem,Sfc, .A,Q«U(ie^
tm
Tbett^ Ae nnfntinn b«iiig {Mit far agr^e-
ag with ikM ]UiQKutiQns.otthe Conunitt^e,
il wa* cmied in the «fiiniiali¥e, Ay«s 2&Q,
IMffl* n ^ CoMfMonf on Air« PooEfofi'^
r^j^ to OMtti^ ig^tf ike CommiHte qf
Seenof.*'} April 13. Lord Limerioky
* <* Tbe Comquitte^ begafi tbeif optratiooB
by clioosioff lord LimericK chairm^p. Tbejr
applied with ittdefatiq^ble dllk^ence to tbe in-
necdoQ of tbe Treasury books an^ papers;
they enmuied maoy persons wbo were sup-
pmed to hftTe been the nrirate asents of sir
Robot WtkfftAe^ in his soneaies of oorruptioa,
hnkry, and dilapidation of th0 pnblio reyenue.
*^ fkt expoclsitions of the Mtion were roiaed
Il tbe gfeniqit beigbt ; the measures of tbe
mhiislBr who liad been held forth as a public
Mnqaeot, as baTing squandered and appro-
yriited the public mooeTf were brought before
atribaoal, oonsisHng^ or^ersons who were both
vfliioff and able to trace hu misconduet, and dis-
cmrbii eBormittes. It was naturally expected
tbt ia eo loag en adainistratioQ, big with diffi-
' teewigg with internal trooblef , na-
iDsianoai of «onnipt influence and note •
liwipifttversi^ltfii W09U bave been disoorered ;
lad that bis o»ponents bad some foundation for
tbe crimes which they bad laid to his charge.
But it soon appeared that they had ad?anced
•anwalioQB wkicb they could net prove ; and
tbit the cbiirgee urgd with such confidence
V Ifae forpibie language of Pitt, could not
W antheqticated. *' 1 fear not to declare,*'
•iaerred that eminent orator, with all the
tttefid spirit of party, " that I expect, in con-
, Mvitaee of soch enquiry, to find, that our
, kcMora has been exhausted, not to bumble
oar enemi^, or lo obTiafte domestic insurrec-
titDi, not to support our allies, or to suppress
•ar factions ; but for purposes which no man
*bo lofea his oonntry can think of without in-
'igMtioB, ibe purchase of rotes, the bribing of
Roughs, the euriching of hireliogs, the mul-
Mying of deneodents, and the corruption of
IviiiaMiitii."
" Tbe went of sufficient prooA, drawn frop
Mhottie papers and roluotiiry pTidence, re-
'vcad the committee to so great a dilemm^
^itfbr tbe purpose of proYinff those enormi-
^ which tbey deemed had been committed,
^jUA recourse to 4 rery extraordinary and
groaedqiied proposition. For the diseoreriea
VMih they wove alble to make were iooonaider-
*M| when cem^ared with the atrociousnesa of
l^ebi^^* and they attributed the ineffici^
|f|^ ewyiiiies lo toe arts and obstinacy of
m ei-QiiQia^s friends and dependents.
**U iyfia eetabUshed maxim in all fforerur
Hyti^ that secret serrioe money must be em-
Fy4 ft>r the ppbUc ailvantage, and tbe dis-
^ af {bat iBoney is, in limited goTemments
^ tan, always, oooflded l» the king, under
tbaArsdianana
Clwm^tfi pf t^9 Comifi^tQ^ of S^secy, i|c»
quaia^4 th# Hoiise, tbf^t Mr, j^ichol^p
Paxtoo, Solicitor of the Treasury, paying
beeo e^^ADoioed \kfw ot^tb, did refuse t9
answer the qu^tifms put to him ^ thf
committee: hereqpon it was moved. That
he hP committed t9 the custody of tb^
a^rieant at ^Tjm% and debarred the use of
[vouxno
4M(nti!0i|Lelkii miniitera, wkto
are responsible to parliament. Among the mi-
nisters, the First Lord of the Treasury , a^ baring
the phi^f direction of the finances, is principally
entrusted with the distribution.
«< Witt a mw to prove air Robert Walpole
guilty of abusing or mismanaygg this part of
the public reveDqe, tbey examined some of thf
infenor agenta vfbo must always be employed
in that speciee of negociation. The sum of
95,000/. bad passed through the bands of
Paxton, solicitor to tbe Treasury. Being
called upon to give an account of that money,
be was first examined about 300/. which bad
been paid to one Boteler in 1735, lor the pur-
pose of carrying his deottou for tbe boroogh
of Weodover. Paxton being repeatedly «ikcd
if he had adTaaeed any money on that accountt
repeatedly refused to answer that question, af
it might tend to accuse hinaaelf. For thif
species of contumacy, he was committed to
Newgate, by an order of the House. Qvr yn
Vaugnan bemg examined by ibe committee, in
regard to a practice with which the late minis-
ter was ohaiged, of obligiiy a possessor of a
phu» to pay a certain sum mim the profits, t»
a person recommended by goremment, ibUow^^
ed the example of Paxtoa, and declined making
any reply, as it might affect himself.
'* Scrop^, secretary to the Treasury , and mem-
ber of the House of Commons, being next exr
amined in r^ard to the disposal of 1,053,2 ll/«
which had, within the term often years, b^en
traced into his and fir Robert Walpole's hands^
declined the oath of discovery, avowing that ho
oould not, ooBsislently with his eonsdence, tak«
a general oath, while particular queries nugfal
arise, which he was determined not to answer,
and ha added, that be eonid reply to no inter-
n^tion, concerning secret service money^
without tbe permission of tbe king. On being
again examined, he acquainted the committee
** he had consulted the ablest lawyers and
divinea, and they bad made his ecmplea
stronger ; he did not do it to obstruct the com-
mitti^ but he oould not, as an honest man,
and with a safe cooscience, take the oath. He
had laid his case before the king, and was au-
thorised to say, that the disposal of money,
laeqed Ibr secret service, by the nature of it,
requirea the utmost secrecy, and is accountably
to his miyefty only ; and therefore his majjes^ji
oould not permit him to disokwe any thing oft
the sud^ect. He hoped he should not. incur
Umi displeaa^re of the committee, for if thii
ofith was confined, he waa re^dy !^h» fm^n
mii^ Upon t))ift W9»V40^,1»» was a^ lurlhlK
pressed. ^
eft]
15 GEORGB IL FirM tlepcH qfihe CmmUee ofSmeejf
paper, pen, and ink. On this motion a
warm athite aroie. On the one aide it
was urged. That except the House was
made acquainted with the questions that
had been proposed, it was impossible to
judge whether they had been properly
pot or not ; and therefore they coula not
judge of the o&nce, for it was possible
that the questions were of such a nature
as might mTolve himself, and no man was
obliged to turn his own accuser.
On the other side it was argued, That
if the House was to be made acquainted
with every question that the Searet Com-
mittee mi^t, in course of their enquiry,
propose. It was no longer a Secret Com-
mittee;^ that its design was lost, and that
as nothinff was more conmion than to ex-
amine and confine a man by a warrant from
a sin^e Secretary of State, so it was not
to be presumed that 21 ffentlemen, whom
the Commons of Great Srilain had r^MS-
ed so much confidence in, would haTe
less discretion, or propo^ any thing im-
proper^—Then the question being put
upon the motion, the same was agr^ to.
Ayes 197, Noes 1S6.
The next day, the Serjeant at Arms was
ordered to brmg the said Mr. Nicholas
Paxton, new a prisoner in his custody, to
theCommitte^ of Secrecy, to be exammed,
as often as the said committee shall think
fit : and that his wife have leave to go to
and remain with him, but not be lulow-
ed pen, ink, or paper, and that no person
have access to ner, without leave of the
House*
Then it was fitfther ordered. That the
Committee of Secrecy have k»ve to sit,
notwithstanding any adjournments of the
House-
April 15. Lord Limerick reportedfrom
the Committee of Secrecy, that he was
directedby them toacquamt the House,
^^Serenl others in the sarnie Bnanoer re-
fusing to answer, the oommittee were per^
plezed, and oonfoamled between their strong
indinatton to convict, and the imposnbility of
effecting their purpose by the oomnion mooe of
1^1 or parliamentiry proceeding.
«*Tbey therefore pobUsbed their celebrated
Report, and moved in the House of Commons,
Ant a Bill, * To indemnify soch persons, as
shooM upon examination, make discoveries,
toachtiig the disposition of offices or any pay-
ment or amenient in nspect thereof, or oon-
eeming ether matters hclonginff to the oon-
daet oTRobert earl of Orfoid,'^ Coxa's
flMMrsofBirK.Walpole.
thai Mr. Nicholas Paxton, Solicitor of the
Treasury, didagainrefusetoanswer towhik
had been before demanded of him; iriiere-
upon it was resolved by a miyoritf of 180
voices against 128, That he be committed
dose prisoner to Neweate ; and that he
be not allowed pen, ink, or paper ; that
no person be permitted to have accen ts
him, without leave of the House : ibai
his wife have leave to remain with him
during the time of his confinement, but
that she be not allowed pen, ink, or pimer ;
and that no person have access to ner,
without leave of the House : it was aLu
farther ordered. That the keeper of New-
gate do brii^ the said Niduilas Paxtoa
to the Committee of Secrecy, to be exa-
mmed, as often as the Committee shall
thinkfit
First Report of the* Committei
OF Srcrbcy appoimtsd to ekqcikx
into the Conduct of Robert Earl
of Orford.] May 13. The k>rd Lime*
rick, according to order, oAdeaBaxtri
from the Committee of Secreqr; whidi
he read in his place; and aftenrardi
delivered in at the derk*s table: wfaeis
the same was read, as follows :
A REPORT from the COMMITTEE
of SECRECY, appointed to en-
autre into the Conduct of RO-
lERT Earl of ORFORD, during
the last Ten Years of his being Fust
Commissioner <rf'the Treasury, sod
ChanceUor and Under-Treasurerof
his Majesty's Exchequer.
Your Committee finding Uiemselves ob-
structed in their enquiry, oy the obstinacj
of Mr. Nicholas Paxton upon his several
examinations, are under a necessity of
hnring that whole transaction before the
House, ^together with a ^ort sUte of
his behayiour as solicitor of die treasu7
and a public accomptantj as also ao ac-
count of the behaviour or Gwyn Vaughan,
esauire, on his examination.
Your Committee now think pro]^, in
order to avoid repetition, to acquaint the
House, that, in pursuance of thev orden^
ail the persons examined hefoxe the said
committee, were examined in the most
solemn manner ; and Mr. Michael Gib-
bons being examined, said, be was agent
to John Boteler, esq. who stood candidate
at the election for a member of fila-
ment for the borough of Wendover in the
county of Bucks, in 1735 ; that Mr. Bote-
ler did, the Saturday ai^ befom it caos
09]
mtae(hiidiia^ik0ll(KHffOr/bri. A. D. I74t.
[690
«a, adnwwithlheezmiiiaiiCy what wa$
proper to be done ; that the examinant
tokt him, nothing could be done without
5 or 60QL that on thiB, he believes, Mr.
Botder told him, that he had not bo much
moner, but he would write a letter to
}lb, Faxton ; that the next morning one
Mr. John Jones, who was a friend of Mr.
Botder, was sent to London, and returned
on the Monday morning to Wendover,
and on his return told the examinant, that
he had delivered a letter to Mr. Paxton,
sod Mr. Paxton had given him 5001, he
hsring at the same time in his handaffreat
number of bank notes, which he told the
exaflDinant was the 500/. in question, and
vhidi he immediately carried in to Mr.
Boteler, who soon after came out, and
informed the examinant the 500/. was
Mr. Jokn Jones being examined, said.
That he had no interest m the boroush
of Wendover, but was employed by Mr.
Botder as a friend ; that, faNsfore the day
of the election, Mr. Boteler desired the
examinant to go to town with a letter to
Mr. Nicholas Paxton for money ; that he
UnaA Mr. Paxton at Fulham, and eave
him the letter, and Mr. Paxton, on reading
it, de^ed the examinant to meet him the
next daj at Roger Williams's cofee-house;
that he did meet him accordingly, and
Mr. Paxton gave him a parcel of money
(of whidi the greatest part, if not the
whole, was in bimk notes) and told him,
on ddivering it, * here is vour answer,'
the sum, he believes, might be about 5001.
that he carried it die same morning to
Wendover, and delivered the same, or
the greatest part thereof, to Mr. Boteler.
John BotdsTf esq. being examined, said,
That when he stood candidate at Wen-
dorer, in 1735, he did, on occasion oi
^ electiim, and not long before it, make
an acquaintance with Mr. Paxton, soli-
citor to the Treasury ; that the examinant
^as pushed at the election, and wanted
■Dooey, and thinking he had some pre-
tensioDs to fitvour, on account of his hav-
Vg been ill used in his former election,
and knowing Mr. Paxton was a person
about the treasury that mi^ht have an
interest where die money might be had,
the examinant, as he could not come away
hm Wendover without money to defray
^ charges, sent Mr. John Jones to
jl'OQdon, with a message to Mr. Paxton
for money, which message, the examir
mi believe^ was a letter for 500^ that
Mr. Jones letOrned .with the money to
the examinant a little b^ie the election ;
that the examinant did never give .either
bond, note, or receipt for the money, nor
has Mr. Paxton Jt anv time since made
a demand either of the money, or any
security for the same^ nor did hie consider
himself as a debtor for the sum tlius re«
ceived.
Mr. NickoLu Paxton being examined^
said. That he knowa Mr. John Jones very
well, and has known him for some ^eara:
that he likewise knows Mr. Boteler, for-
merly a candidate at Wendover, and lias
known him several years; he believes^
that Mr. Boteler stood candidate for Wen*
4over in the year 17S5, but that he waa
not an aeentfor Mr. Boteler.
Mr. Kixton being further asked, if he
advanced any mcMiey to Mr. Jones, oa
the account of Mr. Boteler, about the
time of that election I He said, * I will
not answer that question, as it may tend
to accuse myself.'
The Committee desired he would con-
sider of it. To which he answered, < 1
desire no time to consider of it.* Then he
was ordered to withdraw.
And being again called in, the question
was read to him, and he was informed by
the Chairman, that it was the unanimous
opinion of the Committee, that an answer
to this question did not tend to accuse
himself, and therefore the committee did
msist on an answer. To which he slud»
* I desire to be excused.* Then he was
again ordered to withdraw.
And being again called in, the Chair-
man repeat^ the questibn to him, and
informed him, that the Committee did
insist on an answer, and would not excuse
him. To which he said, < I will not an-
swer that question ;' and persisting in his
refusal, was ordered to withdraw. *
Mr. Paxton being, on the next day,
taken into the custody of the Serjeant at
arms, by order of the House, was on the
day following brought before the Com-
mittee, m order to be examined, and being
again asked, if he did advance any money
to Mr* John Jones, on the account of Mr*
Boteler, about the time of the election
at Wendover, in the year 1735? He
said, *l adhere to my former answer^
upon which he was ordered to withdraw.
And being a^aih called in, the Chairman
by the direction of the Committee, repeat-
ed the same question to him, and ac-
quainted him, that they expected he should
give a' positive answer thereto. Upoii
which he said, < If yon will ha^ me gn$
tiM; aad iAm iTtminMit iDfemied te
ConMBiiitie that there oei e wwrgnil iafomfr
tlMiA; he ftirtfaer tdded, that Mr. Pdme
Mid to Mr. LawtMi, I do not doobt^but
this i« «i exehequer or ti«li8iffy>prQneii-
tkm (oDe or other eKpi«ttio» the exand-
iMOit was aore of,) Mr. LawteA Ifaea aaid to
Mr. FHtne, wh? do yon aak tae diet qaca-
tioii f Mr. PriiM nfilied, 1 aeo lliere a
Iboiidaiioe of care takeo hi thtao {pftaam*
tiotia, o&d a thing tamed on by a jprivatt
purse woold aooroe have htd two sotted
torsf tiiaa therotpoii angrt wouIb paael
beti»««) Mn Lawton aod Mr. PHue, and
that at last Mr. Lawton said to him, < i
assure yoo, th«« has heon no mMiey ^
bursed hitherto, but what haft htea oat of
My pocket, b«t 1 do not pret^d to say, I
shall not be reimbursed it
apain;
k poM^ tthiWtt^i I do aay^ I wfll Mt
Answer fhat mMtiMl> «a it iiMiy %Md to
tibtfos^ myself.'
Ytkxt Coibinltl^, Ih tite next jjaoe, pro*
ceeded to examine Mr. Ridiard Bonks,
Jate MMiier with M^. Faxtoti, who ei^di
that he became a partner in bosinesil with
the said Mr. Paxton, about the year ITSl
or 1732, and continued to Act with him as
Mich, till within these (bur or five years ;
that in their |M-ivate huahMs he, Bankft,
generally received the monev ft'om the
clients, though not always ; thiit in other
businesai which he i^prehended related to
Are public, he gave the bills to Mr. Pta^^
Ml, who allowed diem to the examinant
upon account, as money; that die eXami<*>
Mmt had one bill Of hear S,OOM. fdrprose-
Mtions relating to the bdrouj^ of Orford
in Suffolk, m which Mr. John Ltwton
ef the exchequer, appeared to be the client;
that Mr. Lawton paid the exam! nant sevt«
ral hvmdred pounds for Carrying on this
prosecution, and sOfnetiAite he had mon^
tot the same purpose from Mr. Paxton,
fiir which the examinant gave him a re-
ceipt; but this Was, for the most part,
imn M^. Lawton was out of the way, and
When they met agidn, Mr. ^Xton usually
gave up such receipts to the examiAan^
who then gave Mr. Lawton others in lieu
diereof ; that twice Mr. Mastetman re-
ceived costs from Mr. Moxon, who waa
conceited on the other side, about 2002.
the first, and about 500?. the second time,
and these costs being allowed to die exa-
minarit by Mr. Masterman, who taxed the
bills, the examinant gave Mr. Lawton a
receipt to their amount, and, the exami-
toatat believes, that he gav^no receipt to
any person, except as aforesaid, tbt money
advanced in this affiiir, but to Mr. Lawton
from whom most of the money cftme ;
that at first the examinant did not know
Whether this prosecution wis a public or
private one, but he did at last belim it
was answered by public-money; that it
Was undentood by all Mr. Lawton^s
IKends, as the examinant believes, that
the said prosecutions were carried on with
public money, and that Mr. Lawton did
pot bear the cxpence thereof; diat the
examinant, being at Bury, was one even-
ing rn Compaiiy with Mr. Prime and Mr.
Lawton, when Mr. Prime took occasion to
talk f 6 Mr. Lawton, as not thinking he
h^d received Enough in that cause, Mr.
tilWton told Mr. Prime that Mr. Banks
^d ordert to fee hmi hafidsoraely, and
Itkfed Qanks, whatlio hlid gWen hhn, who
tw
diet die
examiMmt haa sometimes jooahriy oiked
Mr. Pluttoii> if these proseeutioiiB w«e nst
on the public account, but that Mr. Paxtca
has been on the reserve, and ov^ed it by
triling the examinant, < What is that to yoa,
ai long as you are paid?* that there remains
seven hundred and odd pounds unpaid of
the bill for theoe prosecutions : that Mr.
Paxton has likewise charged himself iHik
another bill hf the exammaiit's ai money
in an accompt to peas between them in i
wrosecudon agaim* a news^wtiter for <le>
uming sir Charles Oonteir Nkiml, just
after his death, fbr having accepted aft
red ribbon ; diat cooOseUor Chute recom-
mended Mr. Paxton to lady NidH4 ^
Mr. Paxton gave orders to theexaminRDi
for this prosecution ; tad UmiI a good
while afterwards, the examinant asked
Mr. Chute, yAto he should tnake <Mt the
btlt to; that Mr. Cbate told the eioani-
nant, that he 'should be no foser 1^ it, bat
thaft he thought it Was to cost lady Nichd
nothing; and that he apprehended Mr.
Paxton was to pay it ; on Which ibe exa-
minant Went to Mr. Paxton, who at first
made a litde demur about it, but after a
while he did agree to allow the bill to paft
in account, as aforesaid ; but die tfttum-
nant never did apprehetid it to be A Mr.
Paxton's &Kti expence ; nor doth the et^
minant know, that Mr. JPaXton erer
charged himself with the exanmiant's biDs
ia money, before he had actoaUy receired
them, unless in what the examinant appr^
bends was dischaiged with paibllc money;
1>ut that Mr. I^axton haa engaged hiras^
imder his hand, to answer for ^ before-
mentioned bills as money <& hia «ceooflt
with the fezaminairt.
Mr. immtNi tttartH^, >»!io 1m Iimi W^sMm
piftoor wMitito fiKb«HnJftW) Mr. naton,
unce Michaelmas 17S7, bcivig exAmined,
laid, that he was conearaed for Uie bo-
roueli of Radnor, but not till thej came to
i^pTj for a aew charter ; that he receiyed
his directioBS from Thomas Lewis esquire,
who told the examuiant> as he believea,
that he sfaouldbe paid by the gOTemment;
thst he consulted Mr. Paxton, as weU as
Mr. Leirisi uid, t» the best of his reaiem-
bnnce^ Mr. Lcrnis told hitn, Mr. Faxtoft
was t6 pay Mm ; that thft ««iimifiaiftt*fe
biX i(ft sotidtkig, tAd (»MsiiVg !Jb6 ive^
vhsrtcfv and for defevidihg three hifornHi-
tioiM in the natvore of Quo Warranto,
a^aiMttfcnsft iMMiiben of the corporation,
WIS 1»S84/. of which tipwanAs of 1,200^ was
M soeouni of pHtohig the eh«^ter, and ft
WIS paid hfan by Mr. Panton abote a fouc
igo; tbHt this new ehurter wtt fbr M iiw
curiMMVlMMi^ the ^M eot^poration beH)^<
Woke tip hf pftMbMCton^ Md Judgments
of oustM"; that h^ apprehends the petf-
tionen fbr this diaEfter w^re <HAy l^rions
let sp by Mn Le#iji; fbr he was the
^im t^ai had ft ift heart, nxid who
dady sotttHed, and poshed it <brwftrdi. ^
Thouku X>tfisfeS| esi^. A ifieuibof of thAi
Hoasei being tMMttieed, said, Tnat be ap^
{liM to hiK«e Hie expenses of en intended
new charter for the bbmugh of Radnor
^nrn by titfe Crowfi ; that he had a fatour-
able answer; and belief efe Mr. Pstxton hab
Md hun, he had dife<Hions to talce CMe of
it; that Mr. Martin acted as solicitor in
mnring and passing the charter, and
ianmhed the mon^y for that purpose ;
but the exaininant believes, Mr. Paxton
paid Mr. Mttitin again ; that ttie eM*
minaBt paid some fees to the o^tmsel fbr
meodinjpthe Attorney and Solicitor Oene-
nl in this a&ir, whicn amounted to about
40or50r.; th&t he delivered a bill fbr the
wne to Mr. I^xton, who repaid him;
^ Mr. Pixton in the fiime mimner sap-
ported die ex^nce of defendhift three in^-
romuiions which were brought during the
pning of the charter, against the bailMf
and two ddermett of Radnor ; on which
^formations they were outted from dieir
offices as bdlffand iddermen.
Yoar Committee proceeded, in the next
P^, to examine into Mr, Paxton's be*
Moor as a public accomptant ; imd find,
^ he entered on his office of frc^citor of
Aetrcisury on the 182d of December 17S0,
^ which time tiU the month of July
173^, bemg fom* years and upwards, they
Mthat be hftd pftssed no account, ser
A. 1X1742; £8St
topashthaHwetibr
it ippean to f^tae eomnittee^ thm, on ^bb
fid of July 17B4v he pfooored • WMreat
fitoriithe traaiary tfbr stapping process tiD
the Hillary term following ; imt it doee
not iq^pear to year conmdttae, that» since
that tifle, process has ever been revived
SinlBt him^ ar that any other stepe wet^
ea ttfwatda his pasaag any aocouat,
tiU abom twelve nnrnths ag(s when hk
aCGOuat) ending the 22d of Decesfeber
m% was delivered into the aoditor'ft of-
Tfant, besidea.the aocoant jiftt men-
tiaaed^ tiibre is another of Mn Phxton's
ea^Bg the fM of December 1734, now
under examination, wliich was delivered
ia to the Mad office last Ajpril was twelve
mdtoths ; tkaia lies also before the auditor
a third accooal. endinff the 28d of Deceift*
ber 17S6» whicli was oelivefed in the Mi
day of February last.
And yoar Committee find, that, on tbe
8lii of ramiary laat, a state of the ao-
ckiuaft of Mr. Plucton, from thee9d of D«s
cember I7S0, (the day of hisappomtmettt
ta hii ofiee) to the 88d of December
I79fi» amountkift to the sum of fi8,£35tL
01. 9^if. and the oisohlrt'ge whereof maount-
ed to dS)69(tf* 4«. M« WAS submitted to the
lofds of the treaaorr by Mr. Edward
Batigham, depoty-aaaitor, who has ob-
served at the fbot of the account, that for
3,Mlk IT^partofthecravfimoftheBaid
Mr.^ntttton, MMaeipts,orbillBof thepar-
tioalara, ware produced ; and tfiat it i^
pears by the warrant of the treasury,
which direct the aocomptant's allowanee
cf 5O0k per amaum, payable out of the
eicckeqaer, that the said allowance is to be,
as well in Ueu af termly, and other fees and
allowances, which he murtit dalm fbr hife
^iwn paSaa and sewice, OS fer olerin, oeadb^
iiire, end such other the like oharges, in^
oideift totheexeoatioci ef the said oiBce;
but that it is alleged by the aeoomptant,
that the ierviees before mentieaed ai«
fereign la lae busiDesa as eolidtor of the
tveuMiry ; and that he waa diteeied, by
apeoial orders, io attend the same; the
gteaMt pert of which ware befete hift
appomtment, and fooaifed hi> atteadeaci
in the ooaatry ; and it ippaara, diat dill
state of liie said account, though it bearft
date on the 8th of Fd>ruaty, was not itt
AMDt driivered into die treasury till the Ml
of February kst, when your committee, to
their great surprise, find, that, notwith*
etaading these observitions kid b^re the
oemminioaew #f the treesury by thede^
«S6]
15 6E0IIGB IL tint Rspori tfOe CmmiUee of Socmy [dS6
•pnty anditor of the iuprett, they did; the
i¥ery same tnorning, inue their wsmnt to
.one of the auditon of the imprest, to au-
thoriBe the paanng and allowing of the
.flaid account..
But though, by this means, the treasury
did grant to Mn Paxton ail Uie &vour in
their nower, his accounts are not yet pass-
ed; tor they must be first decwed, and
the declaration is the judicial act of the
• chancellor of the exchequer; in which he
can revise, and, if he sees cause, disallow
them or any part of them, notwithstandinff
.the warrant of the treasury, and the aC
;lowance of the auditor, founded thereon.
Your Committee finding, that Mr. Pax-
ton had actually passed no account, during
the whole time of his being solicitor to the
tteamay^ proceeded to enquire, whether
any large sums of public money had been
entrusted to him, and find, that he stands
insuper 5^82/. ISs.. kd. for money paid
over to him by Mr. Cratcherode, men
the said Mr. Paxton was his assistant; they
also find, that he stands chaiged upon the
imprest rolb with a sum of 89,814/. I9s.
2m. upon account ; so that the whcde sum
of public money, with which he stands
charged, is no less than 94,697/. 17<. Sid.
It also I4>pear8 to your Committee, that,
besides the said sums, they have already
.discovered, that Mr. Thomas Lowther,
-one of the messengers of the treasury, has
jpaid to the said Afr. Paxton one sum of
4,500/. by virtue of a minute of the trea-
aury; for which sum neither the said
Lowther, nor the said Paxton, are public
■accomptants.
. But your Committee are utterly unable
.to discover, by what arts and methods Mr.
Paxton could evade j^assing any account
.during the time of his bemg solicitor of
.the treasury, which is upw«ds of eleven
years; especially aa it appears to vour
Committee, that it was the duty of the
said treasuiy, to oblige him to. prosecute
all such accomptants, as should appear to
be in arrear by the. certificates of the aur
ditors of the imprests ; for your Committee
find, firom a report of the said auditors,
(whioh is hereunto aiviexed byway of ap-
pendix) that, by a warrant of the treasury
dated the 16th of August 171 1 , and signed
Oxford, the solicitor of the treasury is di-
rected to take care, that the process be re-
gularly issued asainst such imprest ac-
comptants as shafl appear to be m arrear,
by tbe certificateei m the auditors of the
imprests, to the queen's remembrancer;
as alsof^unst all peiiopsftandiog inauper
upcm an unprest, or other aoooanH; vUcfa
warrant was confirmed in his late aiqeiky^a
rdgn, as follows, vis.
<Whiteludl, Treasury-Chambers, 18
< November, I717i^P^sent, lord Stan-
< hope, lord Torrington, Mr. John WaRop,
* Mr. Baillie. — Renew the order to the
< solicitor of the treasury to proeecate
* supers upon accomptants.'
And your Committee are at a lots to
determine, what motives could induce the
commissioners of the treanory, to condoue
the said Mr. Paxtan so many years in dw
office oi solicitor of the treasury, sod to
direct, that such large sums of puUk
money should, from time to time, be
lodge!! in his hands ; when they must htre
been informed, by the half-yooly cert^
cates, delivered in to them by theauditoa '
of the imprests, that he had past no ac* '
counts from the time of his filrst appomt*
ment to be s<^citor of the treasury, whick
was on the 22d of Deconber 173a
Your Committee, the better to be ens-
bled to discover, by what services the aai
Mr. Paxton could deserve such singular
and extraordinary indulgence, di{ oa
Friday last, direct the keeper of Newgate
to bnng him before them ; and, upon fail
being allied in, the former questiOD wai i
again rejjeated to him, viz.
* Did you advance any money to Mr*
* Jchn Jones, on the account of Mr. Bo-
* tder, about the time of the election at '
' Wendover in 1735 ?' Upon which be
desired, that his former answer to the said
question might be read. Which being
read accordingly; he rq>eated the ve^
same words, viz. * I will not answer that
* question, as it may tend to accuse mj-
* self.' Whereupon he was asked, Whe*
ther the apprehension that it might teod
to accuse lumself, was his (mly reason tor
not . answering ? He said* ' That is mj
* principal reason.' Whereupon he was
ordered to withdraw.
Gwj^ Vaughan^ esq. being examined, he
was asked, If he knew of any sum or sums
of money, paid out of the salaiir or proBts
of any place or office under the govem-
ment r To which he answered, < 1 do not
< know of any, at this time.' Being then
farther asked. If he knew of any jpaid i
within these ten years? he desired to
know. Whether he was to iiu:lude himself,
or only others ? He was then informed,
that the question was genq/ral, and included
all persons. Then he stud, that he was
apprehensive, that an answer to that q^^
«7J
on the Condtta of the Marl ^Or/brd.
A. D. 17tt.
[69B
tioa might m mrt aflbct hiinaelf ; and
tfaorefore dama to be excused taaawmng,
WhereupoD he was ordered to withdraw.
And upon his being called in again ; he
was acc|iiatnted by the chairman, that the
Committee had considered of his objection
to the question put to him, and would not
press it ftrther at that time.
Your Committee are now prooeedmg,
with aD posMble di^Mtch, in prosecuting
the cnqiiiiy into the conduct or the earl <»
Orford, during the laat ten years of his
being first conunissioner of tne treasur]^,
and diamsellor and under«treasurer of lus
majfity*s exchequer; but thej cannot
coDclode this Report, without representing
to the House, the great difficulty they h^-
boor under, firom this obstinate and con-
temptuous behaviour of Mr. Paxton, who
lypeais to have been directly or indirectly
^cemed in most of the transactions, into
■bich thciy have hitherto* enquired; and
sdKn they consider the very large sums
vliich httve been issued to him, during the
lane of bis being solicitor to the treasury,
•mI that no eflfiM^ual methods were' ever
Jricen to obliffe him to account for any
gart thereof, (a circumstance, which could
ast arise from mere neeligence or inatten-
|pn) when they consider that the strong
md wdl-grounded remarks made on his
iccounta by the deputy auditor of the im-
fRits, were instantly followed by a war-
imt of the treasury, directing the auditor
ll allow his accounts ; when they consi-
ler, what strong suspicions must arise
lorn the foregmng evidence, that some
|srt, at least, of the money in his hands,
Mqr have been employed in practices dan-
■wous to the liberties of this nation, and
iestructive of the independency of parlia-
ttenu ; they cannot help observing that
ibis perseverance in refusing to answer,
asems to take its rise from a premeditated
Wieme, to obstruct and frustrate their en-
jgniry; and, should it pass unregarded,
laay probably communicate itself to other
Isrsoos, whom they shaU have occasion to
mO before them; and, by that means,
Sander it impossible to lay a clear state of
afaiis before the House.
Tour CoBBBittee therefore thought
|AeDBseives obliged in duty to report these
'.matters Eoedmv to the House, and do
iDoUy sutimit tne same to their considera-
A BUI to mdemmfy EMcnce agaitut
Ro6en Earl of Or/or d pastes the Com-
.] May 19b Then a motion beiqg
made by 'lord Limerick, and seconded
hj sir John St. Aubin, « That leave be
given to bring in a Bill for indemnifying
such persons as shall, upon examination^
make discoveries touching the disposition
of public money, of concerning the dispo^
sition of offices, or any pmneats or agree*
ments in respect thereolv or concerning
other matters, relating to the conduct 3t
Robert earl of Orford,'' after debate, a
Bfll was ordered in accordingly, on a di*
vision, Ayes 251, Noes 828.
May 18. The said Bill was read a^ se»
oond time; and after debate it was re^
solved, that it be committed to a com-
mittee pf the whole House: Ayes 928,
Noes21&
Then sir John Hmd Cotton moved^
That the House do immediatelv resolve
itself into a committee of the whole House
upon the said Bill, which was carried in
the affirmative. Ayes 253, Noes 221 ; and
the committee went through the Bill, and
reported it with several Amendments.
May 19. The Bill was read the thiid
time and passed: On a division. Ayes
214, Noes 186 ; and sent to the Lords by
lord Limerick.*
Copy of the BUI to indemnify Evidence
against Robert Earl of Orfir^ '^^ ^^
lowing is a copy of the said Bill :
^ Whereas an enauiry is depending in
parliament touching tne conduct of Robert
earl of Orford, during the last ten vears of
his beinff first commissioner of the trea-
sury, and ^chancellor and under treasurejr
of his majesty's exchequer; and it is ne-
cessary, for the purpose aforesaid, th^it
several persons should be examined in re-
lation to any misapplication, illegal or cor-
rupt disposition oi anj money granted by
garliament for defraying the cxpences of
is majesty's civQ government, and better
supporting the dimity of the crown of
Great Britain, and for enabling his ma-
jesty to make an honourable provision for
his royal family, and of any other public
money ; and also in relation to the dispo-
sition of any offices and payments, allow-*
ances or agreements iu respect thereof,
* <* This Bill made a rapid progress throoffh
the HoQie of ComnH>n8. The earl of Orfbril^s
friends Mng perrasded that it would be thrown
out by the Peers, they gave it very little opp6->
sition. Bat when it oame before the Peers, i^
progmss was stopped.'* Tiodsl.
843] 15 OEORGB IL
same was agreed to. Also propoeed after
the words << to this House/', to insert these
words ** after having taken his place on
the woolsacks as such," And that varia-
tion was likewise agreed to.
Then the Standing, Order of the 16th of
November 1705, No. 96, was read as fol-
lows : ** That for the future no Private
Bill shall be read in this House, until
printed copies thereof be left with the
clerk of the parliaments, for the perusal of
the lords ; and that one of the said copies
shall be delivered to every person as shall
he concerned in the said dill, before the
meeting of the Committee upon such Bill;
and, in case of infancy, to be delivered to
the guardian, or next relation of full age,
not concerned in interest, or in the paasmg
the said Bill."
Proposed to insert after the word
*< House," these words *< a second time."
And that addition was also agreed to.
After which the Rule, as entered in the
said Roll, No. 79, was read as follows:
<< All proxies from a spiritual lord shall be
made to a spiritual lord, and from a tem-
poral lord to a temporal lord."
Moved to leave out ** a," after ** made
to;" and insert " one or .more." ' The
same was objected to. And the question
being put upon the said motion : it was
resolved in the negative.
Ordered, That the said Roll of Stand-
ing Orders be varied and rectified, accord-
ing to the aforegoing directions.
. . Debate in the Lordi on the Bill to in"
demnifu Evidence against Robert Earl of
Orford.*2 May 25. On the motion for
committing this Bill,f
* From the Gentleman's Magazine : com-
piled by Dr. Johnson.
^ From the Seeker Manuscript,
May 95. On the 2d Reading of the BUI for
indeninifyiag PetwmB who shall make
Discoveries concemiog the Earl of Or-
ford's Conduot
Carteret, I have several objections to se-
veral parts of iliis Bill, but if they were altered,
the whole is wrong. It is beyond any former
precedents ; but I shall not trouble the House
with these. It is contrary to natural justice,
' to the law of England, to the usage of parlia-
ment, and to the honour of this House.
' No person ouglitto be glanced at as a criminal,
'Vitbout first establishing some charge. Tliere
must be a ^ corpus delicti,' corps de delit : which
. there is not in this case. The Bill gives in-
' demaity to bad pcrsolis for speaking against a
Debate in the Lordi [((I
Lor^ Carteret rose and said:
My lords ; as the question now be«
fore us is of the highest tniportance both
to the present age and to posterity, sBit
may direct the proceedinga of the coaiti
of justice, prescribe the course of public
enquiries, and by coosequence aiEect the
property or life of every lord in this as-
sembly ; I hope it will be debated amongst
us without the acrimony whidi arises from
the prejudice of party, or the violenoe
which is produced by the desire of vic-
tory, and that the controversy will he ani-
mated by no other passion tnan zeal foi
Justice and love of truth.
For my part, my lords, I have reason to
believe, that many professions of my m-
cerity will not be necessary on this occa-
sion, because I shall not be easily suspected
of any partiality in favour of the noble
lord to whom this Bill immediately rebte&
It is well known to your lordships bov
freely I have censured his conduct, sad
how invariabl V I have opposed those nwa-
sures by which the naUon has beoi so&r
exasperated, that the Bill» now under our
consideration, has been tbongfatneceflnry
b^ the Commons, to pacify the genenl
discontent, to restore the public tranquil-
lity, and to recover that confidence in tbe
government, without which no happiness ii
to be exj^ected, without which thebestmea-
sures will always be obstructed by the
people, and the justest remonstrances dis-
regarded by the court*
But however hiudable may be the end
proposed by the Commons, I cannot, 07
loros, be so far dazzled by the prospect of
obtaining it, as not to examine the 1
man not accused of any particular fact Kov
the fact, the discovery to be made, and tbeie^
ward to be given, should be all certain and
fixed. There is no instance of an iodenualy
offered without these three. It would be
criminal in a private person to advertise, tint
he will reward any one who will give erideooe
against such a person. It is worse than ap-
plying to a single person to become an evideooe.
That person may be an honest man. But this
is applying to rogues as well as others. Siu-
posing the crown were to promise a pardoo or
{)roclamatioD in this general way, it would be iw
egal, and the minister who"^ advised it wpubl
be punishable for it. If, then^ the legislature
do It, this makes it legal, but not right iad
all writers talk this language from Cioero to
Grotius. Tlie common law of Eogjaod is
perhaps over scrupulous in the case of evideooe.
In civil causes, no man can be received, iBocfa
less credited, as a witness, where he bath uff
mi
on tke SUmding Orders*
A. D« 174S.
[84fl
The cnder of the day being read, for tak-
ing into oonaideration several of the Stand •
ing Ofden of tfait House: Uie Order of
the 25th of January 1720, No. 112, as
entered in the foU of Slan^ng Orders,
was lead, as Mlows: ** That, when an
order of the dtj is appointed Co be read,
for taking anT public buBiness into consi-
deration, the lord on the woolsack do stop
the reading of the Order, till the House
shafl be cleared of all persons that haye no
right to be in tiie House when sitting, if
anynsch shall be there at that tfane.'^
Then it was moved, ** That the same be
vacsted, in order to substitute another in-
stead thereof." Which being objected to;
and debate thereupon : the question was
po^ ** Whether the said Standing Order
be vaotted ?'' it was resolved in the
ne«tive.
Next, the Rule entered in the said Roll,
No. 9, was read, as foDows : *' ETery lord
that eomes after prayers, if he be a baron
er bisbop, is to pay one shilling; and if he
be of any degree above, two shillings for
will dofM ham, er let the mnler b^, that none
■Ui eome in bot by order of the Hottse, and
that no loffd sbslihaffe leare to bring in any bnt
€f the Hoase ef Commons.
N.C. 77. Of whom bishop of Oxford
was one.
C. 35. Of whom bishop of Glocester
was one.
Shaftesbury, Coventry, Cbedwortb, did
not vote. NoithamptOD, N. C. Abing-
don, C*
That thaOrier No. 0, about fbrieWng ta the
Pior'a Bttx if nolat prayers, was repealed.
The Older No. 6t, was cbangad thus, That
when there is a cause it shall be the bosineo
finrijHOoeeded on after prayers.
The Order No. 69, almot theAttoiiiey and
Solicitor OeneraS^ Sec. not pleading id prirste
causes at the bar, was Umited thus, * after he
haib taken his place on the woolsack as sncb.^
[OrigiDally the Attorney and Soficitor were not
allowed to be members of the House of Com-
mona, bat they ha?e been snch, I think, since
mieen Btizabeth^s time, though this disqualifies
toem from sitting as assistants to the Ilonse of
Lords. The Chancellor had a day or two be-
fore inlarpieted the Order as implying the limi-
taiion now giren to it, and lord Daraley had
said Us interpretation was not consistent with
common sense, and some other hanh eipres-
sioDs he osei|, upon which, the Chancellor de-
sired the protection of the House, and it was
moved that lord Bamley^s words should be
taken down; The doke of Bedford desired that
they might be understood to be hb words also.
Bat the debate subsided.]
The 96th Order was changed into one fbr
priming Private BillstMfbre thessoood reading.
L VOL. XII.]
the poor; but every lord who comes not
at all, and makes not his just excuse, is to
pay fire shillings for every day's absence.'*
Ordered, That the said Standing Rnla
be vacated.
Then the Standing Order of the 28th
of June 1715, No. 62, was read, asftUows :
** That on die days causes are appointed
to be heard, the cause be called m pre-
cisely at eleven o'clock ; and no other
business to intervene."
Proposed to leave out the words ** called
in precisely at eleven o'clock ;" and in-
stead thereof to insert these words, ** the
first buriness proceeded on after prayers*'*
And the same was agreed to.
Then the Staadmg Order of the 18th of
June, 1685, was read, as follows : V That
for the future, neither his majesty's Attor*
ney General, nor any assistant to this
House, shall be flowed to be of counsel,
at the bar of this House, for 'any private
person or persons whatsoever."
Proposed to insert before the word
^ assistant," the word •* other." And the
These thmgs were done at lord Delawar'^
Aldngdm* The lord Abingdon moved, Thst
lords might be allowed to have each three
l»rozies. [It as said the number was unlimited,
till once a single lord, by the help of his proxies,
out- voted ^be mst of the House J and that sioce,
no lord has ever asked leave of the kin^ to
leave the House and make a proxy, that migin
be left out of the orders of the House, and out
of the forms of proxies. ^l\ is not mentioned in
^be fiNrma of proxies which I have seen.] And
that as the deigy in convocation ssay tnake m
many pisiues ssthoy please, the Lords may flo
so too.
Delawar. The power of making proxies
comes by leave firom the crown. Formerly the
barons monght it a hardship to attend. And
by R. S, c. 3. a lord, if be drai not attend, and
cannot excuse himsdf to the kuig, shall be
amerced, and tlie fine in those days was a high
one. Formeily more than one proxy was
named. Yet in air fihn. Dewe'a Journal,
93 Oct. 1556, It is mentiooed as an extraordi-
nary thuig, that a tempoml ked should make
two proxies. In the fint parliament of Eliz. a
lord oy licence made a proxy to 3 conjonction
and division : one of tnem gave cooseot to a
Bill, the other two said not content. This wsa
held to bene votes. Several lords do ssk leave
of the kine before they go oot of town, and all
ought to do it
Abingdon, Several proxies may be so named,
as that only the first shall vote if present : if
not, the second.
The Motion was disappiored without a
division. •
[aT]
847] 15GE0RGBII.
turn, u imivenaUy knoim ; nor m it ne-
oesMiy to ahow their opinioiiby particidAr
exampiesy because being no leas aeliciloiM
for the welfare of Uieir poaleritj tban for
their •wa, they were careAil to record
their aentiMenta in laws and itattites, and
■ «l^»w^«» ■»«» *1.l— ■»■■ ■ ■■■■■■■■ii I >. III! II 1
itiaaalyA pamablat, so fiiundatioo fig uato
yrooeeil ao. There nevar was any thia^^ like
this Bill since the creation of the world, but the
tiro proseriptiODs in the Raasan Empire, the two
only anas that efer were any where. In these
there was a pecuniary reward, for whoever
would brings the head of such a eae. In this,
here is iademnity, which is nsore than money,
lor whoever wiU brins each eridenoe aa wiU
take a man's head^ 1 an almoat aahanad la
mention particulars. It is like aoasa lattera one
bath heard ef, in which, by aoooe fatality, no
one ward la right apdt firery aeatenoe in it
is contrary to the roles of justioea. * Whereas
an anqniry is defjeading' — We know of no eo»
ouiry. Ind how is it depending in oarliaaBentr
The Bill hath auah a repletkw or ertis in it,
that na evacuations can cure it It calb the
Civil list public moaey» which is indeed aal
public nMoey , but is appropriated to the king
for such osaa aa be thbks £t. TheBill is not
aa it aeta forth, ibr the moracffectoal makiog,
but the preventing of mroper eaquiiy. The
only criaoae come at, will be those of other per-
a man hath confessed his
[«
own guilt, be will only say» * I believe' or ' I
4o net rameanber,' &c. Relative tliiBraanto—
To we know not what, but only know to whom.
'ThaProriao at theeud is only, that if two and
tfaraa aMke aix, then, 6co. For how shall It
be proved whether men aoake false disooverias
or not?
What can be the reason of suchaBillas this?
It was declared, tbat notliiog protected tbis
maa but his power. Mow his power is goae.
They who have been loddest in exdaiming
against him, have bad the largest powers given
them that ever ware given in this ooonti
^Ibey are persons of ability, and williagna
•and they say. wa can find nothing: but kt
issue out a proclaasation of indemnity la who-
ever can prova him to have done wrong
in any one particular. Any persan that ahoiwl
dislike any one lord in this House, might just
with the same reason propose the same thmg.
ISupposetbis were told of some visier in Torkay,
that every body had been railing at him and
aa^iog, that nothing but the Suttaa protected
.biin» that then be was deposed, bis eacOdiea a^
pointed to examine bia conduct, tbat they could
find nathiag agaiast him, and therefore o&
lerad rooaey to ^bMever wouM accuse him,
should we not thiak bow happy we were that
we did not live in such a country ? I hai» aa
aMwy mora djections behind thaaa aa I hare
odvanced.
Arg^U. I wishtbefate af this BiM W«re to
be decided t^a oath. It is necmsary, if tbe
fwasnatien af our bbaslias be. Lsf^inpowir,
Diiahin$keLml$
topreacribo with the atrangeatt
to sucoeeding spaveranieBtiy what they bai
diaoovered by &esr ewB KcBOctioDa^ or been
taiisht by their pradeoeiaon.
They ooDaideied» my lorda, not only
how greet waa the bardlsh^ of faeiag im-
for obvious reasoaa, are fond of madem pn*
cedents. TheBill from the Coflamaasielstiiig
to sir Thomas Cooke was to force him. You
lot tbat lie upon your tsUe, and seat them a
Bill u> iodemuify him, which they psoed. U
the case of Che earl of Macdesfield the masten
in Chancery were or thought thay migbt he
affected : yon indemnified them, la the cue
of Thomson and another, there is an indeauifi.
oatiaothatevary way hiuthia case. Ideaic
it may be read. I have 18 aaaes rtistingte
frauds in the customs aad exciae, where per*
sons are indemnified and bribed. Tbecaseiof
the Bast ladia and South Sea Companies tbo
may be read.
The public hath a right to the evideace if
every individual of the society. And yet m
man can be bound lo accuae himaelf. Now
there ia no right whhout a raneady, aad by
what meana can both thcae ri^ts be pre-
served but by such a Bill
apoke bst hath made a sap poaMs.
this? MysoUc
friend who spoke bst hath made a
I also will make one. Soppoae a man to creep
into such favour with his prinoa as to diepoic
of every thiag for many yeaia, then willing or
forced to retire, but leaving behind him meet of
the miaisters who had acted with him, ssdoT
the persons whose employments ware received
from him, and continuing in &ve«r wiib tbe
king. After he had undone foreign sftin,
ruued the fiaaaoea, misap^plied the pvUie
treasure, how can hia oonduot be examiaed hit
by such a method aa this ? I have not heerda
minisler these nmny years speak of the deoger
of the House of Commons eacroachiag upoi
as. They were all for ooaAplyiag. The pre-
sent power ia ana they have leag exereised.
The evidence bsdbra the Secret Committee it
not brought there to convict. I hope lebaH
never see a Bill of Attainder 9gtdB. We ked
eae seven years ago, not much far ear heaoor,
(ia the esse of Porteaos.) I like an impsacb
mentmuch better. It wiU never hartisss>
ceace,and may cften saveaaatioa. AUlbe
evidence are ta be exaaeiaed here oa oalbi eod
if they iieignre themeelvea here, they msybe
oanvicted. Making wav far enrideaoe ia the
only manner you can, and ia which yea elkes
have, is net antioipaliog judieatura. Witaewes
tbemselvas criminal, are credited every dsy^
and why not here ?
There ia no daoj
usalesB. I rather
eaotremeiy useiiil, «id wbb we laay aet be
thought dangerous.
I wander any eOe should thiak the Civil
Liat is net pObUo money. Say this» sad tbfls
as ao end of our oaaaliiutian. It is IRM"^
teSfflrtkeCiid
danger now ef our bring vm
her fear weahall bessidlDbe
sBtly caadenntadt bat likcvrise how mock
mail might su&r bj being fUsely acc-
used ; how mudi he might be bmrmsed
J a nmecutioB, and Iwr seaaMv he
EHglit feel the disgraoe of a triaL Thcj
new that to bechaf]gcd with guilt implied
or bribing nweaihwt. Jl it
^fra wilfesat aoeount : hvHi ilamniater apply
L wfoag he it aoooualablew Were 1 an in*
oococ oMi A the CMo of the oo61e eail, 1
vottid aslicit lo have a ilrict «fiq«irj. There
VMS a iiae when 1 theiigbt 1 bad nerved my
ing aad my country well. I wm eBteflaiaed
t|»oo my retara witb the rewat^ J waa la re-
^ve. Saoa after Ihia I was taraed aat : att
Detbodi arcd Id epqoiae iato my eaodnct : a
)U9om pardaaed la be evidenoe againat ne:
' gave lajr apkiioB for bis pardon, ror I knew
ay inaooeacse, and 1 waa never aecuaed.
lo the Bribery Aet, a 6. a, e. 94, er ery wmi
Bovided of having g^en money sball forfeii
}O0L But if aay peraea olRaidiog aball wilhia
IS noDlba ditaover aay other, be abaU be in-
bnaifiadfreai all ha bath daae agaiaat that
ict. Pcnona were indaamified on liacaveriag
be citatea of the Sooth SeaDa-edeia.
CMmotukity, Be fray eat aad go near diii-
■oaa ware never known m the Heuae of Gem*
Bona aa npon [tbia en^ry. If tUa BiJI paaa,
kcra will renaaia no nde evea for the Jadgea
ago by. Itiaeonaranrto all thathathever
Ma thoagbl few. Tbe enoairy about air
rbaaiaa Caeke wee earried en by a eomroittae
€helkBosaaa^ He had oftts •refnaed to ae«
MBt: tba aaapiciona were atrongi if it waa aat
MtorioMa, thai BMNMy bad been given to mem*
aca af caeb Hoaae. He am be ia wilting to
vnt endcaeeaboot the diatnbafion of 67,4100/.
tbia waa Iheoaly thiag that ctMdd aave bim.
Kbereaa tbete ia aat the anapioion of a prime
ifijnat tbe earl of Orlbrd. In tbe case of tbi
nri of Maariaafield, open the eompiaintaef the
■itoiB in tbe ooart, a oomminioa waa iaaaed
bjr tbe crown, greet faalta appeared, an iaa-»
pucbaient waa eedared, and it waa net till
^ that a Bill of lademoity waa breaght:
Md the Maalan in Chancery eenaented to the
bll to imlaauufy tbam from two partionlar
aantea. Ia tbe caae ef Thomaon^ every alep
rtbtiac to tbe afihir waa laid before tbia Houaa
bdoietbeBilL
Nebody eaabe anra of tbe indemnity aeena.
ii^ to be given bare. But every boAy ia ia*
lacd to petyary. The caaea of Praada in tbe
CQikima,er£aaae; efBanftbaea,erBa8llBdui
Compaair^ are vavj diffneat. Tbey ware no*
arioaa &ela. ▲ f*^"^ fiM^ aeeoaed, may
kve tba benefit or the peaabiea noon boa ae»
anera. But ia aach a rommitlaa he cannot
Berk^ ef Biralton. No wander if tba
fainal the peraon named in tbe
tbe waigbl of bit pawer witb
Bat not to atate one fiwt ia
l«iycmatla
liimKoal
tttt. IfaaawleH tbe waigbl <
A* B. ITU [099
deigrae of jrepnaacb^ aa4 tbm it gave
roofa at least for flm infeaaneQ that tba
known oondoot of the peraon aecaaefi waa
simA aa made it probaUe, tbab be waa atil4
more wicked tbaahe^il>eared; Aegrkneim
thsi^ tbe credulity of aoaae aaight adaai*
lag. It ia aearebiag ftr tbe crime inrtaad of
the criminal. J hope tbey will impaaab hm^
and ahaU be g^ad te da jaatiee oa bim withent
b«irting my own conacieooe.
Chutwfidd, I know of no diaebligaliea I
have to the earl of Oribrd; aad have aoo«»
aaotiflaent of pi%ae egamat him. I oeitar
envied hie power, bat h^ed the end of it woald
balba end di hia meaaarea. ^id I hmm %
great vagard far hia abUitiea, aad maay abia
[lierhapa, aadable] qaaktieaiaaacial Mb. Tbe
BiUiaao fa? froma proaeriptiaor that itia a
Bill to binder enquiry from beiog impoaaiblt^
aad if itboibrewn out, aM hope at* amterialjoa-
tiee ia preaeribed. Aknoat every eaqairy ie by
applicatian to the guilty. Aocomplioes are in-
vited every day to a diaeevary by impunity, aaa
rewarda, and even witb tbia eoodidon added, if
theperaoDbeceavietedaadaotebe. GaaMaaw
danger eoatiaaea the ocmeat of rnmrnaa gudt,
and impaaity diaaeUea it. Tbe atatotea abana
tbeSeatb Sea and Beat India Company aae te
all futurity. Here, tbea, ia no Coifu9 dtikciL
Were tbia Bill esteaded to aH miai^lera heee^
aller, I woaM be far it Had I tbe beneor and
miafortnneto boa miaialer new, i woold be tl»
fiystto apaakfea it. Were tbe Commaaate
aingle me eat by each a Bill, 1 wooU implore
yee, that aa thia aapemiaa waa thrawn upHi
ma, yeo wauld eaemwage all evidence ia ibe
cage. Hate tbe aajpirraaw ia thrawn akaadw..
There ia Cot^par wvacioai^ indeed da/wli: toef
it appeaia there were aooM of aaaney given hy^
Faxtaa. There may iadeed be aubtletlea af
law, that take tbia caae a Ultla eot of tba
letter of ether cama. Sapaaae Ailielea ef
Impeaebmeataaatap le yoe, new detbitooaao
proved to yen that tfaam ia any thing wattb
year atieotiae in them? Itiaoeisr anibafabb
of the other Houae thai yea admit lbem« I
I ae adffoeaie fiw the criaa ef the whole
poverty aad pnblie diaboaoer. Yea f%f
yeuv judieaiam, and make it peanbla
bytbinBiU. IfitbeieiBalad^naendaMawill
be paoearad iwr tbe fiitnm agaiaat any mhrnter^
Than ia a gtoai peedty apea y/Btymy beteie
theconamittee: may baveaot impam^taad
tiwB whataboaidinwia them ta it? Intbeaapi-
paaidae of tho five gaiaem mantumad by a
BoUe bad, tba amn that abonbl eanfem it
minld be henged for tbemeider. In tbeoaae
of Caaka, yen tboaghtit right ta eeoaorage himi
to apcnk, thongb not tatortafebtm into aneafe*
iag. Now Paatan ia aaoaaed of mimpplyiae
nearly tlw aanm aum. A pariiaaMOt earru^tei
by e Oampaav, ia eeraapted only inr that 50b,
bntimiuptidaya miniatariacanrapladfiveil
biajohB. ' ^
US] U GEORGE n.
terraoB-of coBscieiioehaTettomeCiciiM ex-
tortedy and ^e notxNriety tff the crime has
at other times produced, or by the deposi-
tion of such witncsceB as the jury shall
think wordiy of belkC
1*0 die ciedibility of any witness it is
always requisite that he be disinterested,
that his own cause be not laTolyed in that
of the person who stands at the bar, that
ha has no j^ospect of advancing his for-
tane^ clearing his reputation, or securing
hia Itfe. For it is made too plain by daily
examples, that interest will prevail over
the wtae of most men, and that it is not
ai^ to believe those who are strongly
tempted to deceive.
Tnere are cases, my lords, where the
iaiterest of the person o&ring his evidence
is so spparent, that he is not even admitted
to be beard ; and any benefit which^may
possibly be proposed, is admitted as an
dbjactioa to evioeaoe, aad weakens it in
a meflmre pvoportionate to the distance
of the prospect and the degree of profit.
Suen are the rules hitherto followed in
crimiiMd proceedings, the violationof which
bas been always censured as cruelty and
oppression, ana perhaps idways been re-
pented even by tnose who {proposed and
icfimded it, when the commotions of party
have subsided, and the i^at of opposition
and vesentment has given way to unpreju-
diced reflection.
Of tfaaae rules, ay leads, it is not ne-
cessary to produce any defence firom Che
fflACtice or distant nations, because it is
saffioieBft in the present case, that thejr
aae established by the constitution of this
oountiy, to which every Sriton has a
light to appeal: for how can any man
Aflfeird his conduct, if having acted under
ane law, he is to be tried by another.
Let us therefore, my lords, ap[>ly these
rales to the present biu, and enquire what
regard appears to have been paid to them
by the Commons, and how well we shall
observe them by concurring in their de-
sign.
With respect to die first, by wluch it
IS required, that there be a known and ma-
nifoflt crime, it does not appear to have
engaged the least attention in the other
House ; for no fisu^t is specified in the bfU
upon which a prosecution can be founded,
and therefore to enquire after evidence
is somewhat preposterous : it is nothing
less than to invite men to give their opi-
nion without a subject, and to answer with-
out a question.
It may be urged, indeed, that tiiere is
t)iA0$einikeLord$
[IS
a universal dkooatant over the idaleu
tion ; that the clamour against the peoQ
mentioned in the biH, has been cootiBii
for many jrears ; that the influence of i
nation is impahed in foreign ooontiia
that our treasuiy is exhausted; thate
liberties have been attacked, our propi
ties invaded, and our morals commta
but dwse are yet only rumour^ wm^
proof and without legal certainly; ^
may indeed with great propriety giie i
casion to an enquiry, and perhaps byl^
enfjmry some mcts may ne aBcertaiii
which may afford sufficient reasons fori
ther procedure.
But such, nsy lords, is the fono of ||
bill now before us, that if it should n
into a statute, it would, in my opimg
put a stop to all iuture enquirjr, by msU
those incapable of givii^ evidene^
have had most opportumties of kooii
those transactions, which have giveo \
chief occasion of smpicioo, and finn «ko
therefore the roost important infiMnall
must naturally be exp^^ted.
The first requisite qualification of iij
ness, whether we considt nataral edj
and reason, or the common law or j
own country, is disinterestedness; sdi
difierence with regard to aU oatwud «
cumstanoes, about the event of.tbetij
at which his testimony is requirei |
he that is called as a witness wfaeieht
interested, is in reality giving evideDoei
his own cause.
But this qualification, my lords,!
bill now before us manifestly takes ng
for every man who shall uppeix 9m
the person into adiose oondact the am
of C^Hnmons are enqairing, evideolly (■
motes, in the hiehest degree, his om i
terest |)y his evidence, as he mayprecM
all examination of his own bebavioor^ai
secure the possession of that wealtb ipSb
he has accumulated by /raud and oppni
sion, or perhaps preserve that life vIm
the justice of the nation might take anf.
Nothing, my lords, is more obnsfl
than that tliis offisr of indemnity wfW
duoe peijunr and fidse accusation ; noniB|
is more probable than that he who is oa
scious of any atrodons villafnieS) M
be cannot certainly secure ironi discoreij
will snatch this opportunity orconunittii^
one crime more, to set himself free bs
the dread of puaishmeat, and blot (d
his own guih for ever, by chargtug Ion
Orfovd as one of his aocounlicea.
It may be urged, my terdS) that h
who shall give fiibe evid^ce, ftrfeits th
697]
entUBUl tokthnHii^ Emdatee.
A. D. 1742.
OKI
indenHiily to whf db the llotiest witness is
entitled; but let us consider why this
should be now, nttlier than in any tormer
time, accounted a sufficient security against
ftisfaood and perjury. It is at all times
criminid, and at all times punishable, to
commit perjury ; and yet it has been hi-
therto thought necessary, not only to deter
k by subsequent penalties^ but to take
sway all previous temptations; no man's
oath will he admitted in his own cause,
though offered at the hazard of the pu-
nUhmeot inflicted upon perjury. To offisr
indennity to invite evidence, and to deter
them from false accusations by the for-
feiture of it, even though we should allow
to the penal clause all the efficacy which
can be expected by those who proposed
it, is only to set one part of the bill at vari-
ance witti the other, to erect and demolidi
at the same time.
But it may be proved, my lords, that
the reward will have more influence than
the penalty ; and that every man who can
reason upon the condition in which he is
placed by this bill, will be more incited to
accuBe lo^ Orford, however unjustly, by
the prospect of security, than intimidated
by the forfeiture incurred by perjury.
For, let us suppose, my lords, a man
whose conduct exposes him to punishment,
and who knows that he shall not long be
able to conceal it ; what can be more
apparently his interest, than to contrive
such an accusation as may complicate his
own wickedness with some transactions of
the person to whom this bill relates ? He
nmy indeed be possibly confuted, and lose
the benefit offisred by the state ; but the
loss of it will not place him in a condition
more dangerous than that which he was
to before ; he has already deserved all the
seveiity to which perjury will expose him,
and far forging a bold and well-connect-
ed cafumny, he has at least a chance of
escaping.
Let us suppose, my lords, that the
Bill now under our consideration assigned
a pecuniary reward to any man who
should appear asainst this person, with a
daose m whicm he that should accuse
him fiJsfy should be dismissed without
his pay ; would not this appear a method
ofproeecution contrary to law, and reason,
M justice ? Would not every man im-
Aedflrtdy diseover, that the witnesses were
brS^ed, Mid ttierefore ihew would deserve
ao credit? And what is Oe difference
tMlween the advantage now Owred and
ay oAer eeosidcnlioD, ttctnt ttet
fyou xuo
seareely any ether vewaid ean be oflferei
so great, and consequently so likely to in*
fluenoef It !s to be remembered, that
the patrons of this Bill evidently csfl fyt
testimony from die abandonedT and the
profligate, fhim men whom they suppose
necessarily to confess their own crioies iA
their depositions: and winAj wretdiei
like these ought not Co be solicited to per-
juiyby the offer dTa reward.
How crud must dl impartial speetafofs tt
the public transactions account a prose*
cution like this ? What would be youf
lordships^ judgment, should you read^
that in any distant age, or remote country,
a man was condemned upon the evidence
of persons publicly hireo to accuse him,
and who, by their own confession, were
traitors to their country i
That wickedness, my lords, should be ex-
tirpated by severity, and justice rigoroittly
exercised upon public offenders, is the un*
controverted interest of every country; and
Aerefore it is not to be doubted, that in
all aces the reflections of the wisest men
have been employed upon the most proper
methods of detecting ofiences; and sinc^
the scheme now proposed has never been
practised, or never out by the most op*
(iressive tyrants, in the most flagitious
times, it is evident, that it has been thought
inconsistent with equity, and of a t^odency^
contrary to public happiness.
I am very fkr, my lords, from deshring
that any breach of national trust should
escape detection, or that a public offioo
should affiird security to bribery, extor*
tion, or corruption. I am &rfrom intend*
bg to patronise the conduct of the person
mentioned in the present Bill. I^ the
Commons proceed with the utmost se-
verity, but let them not deviate horn
justice. If he has forfeited his fortune^
his honours, or his life, let them by a legal
process be taken from him; but let it
always be considered, that he, like every
other man, is to be sUowed the commoai
mediods of self-defence ; that he is to
stand or fhll by the laws of his country^
and to retain the privileses of a Brrton»
till it shall appear that he has forfeited
them by his cmnes.
To censure guilt, my lords, is oiidonbt»»
edly necessary, and to enquire into the coik»
duct of men m power incontestably just ;
but by the laws ooth of heaven and earth,
the means as weD as the end are prescribet!^
^ rectum rectd, legitimum legitnne fiioien*
'dum,'wemust not only propose a ^ood
Olid m our costducti but wisl aMio ft mf
M93
15 GBOBGI^ n.
4ifficalt choice of eithor •oppiUMiM mr
Ihoughto, or oxpoiii^ iboni lo to cuMd-
vaoUigeoQf a cooinifit.
Yetp Bioco such is my present 8UiU« thet
t cannot mroidodedanUioDof my thoughti
on this questioni without beii^ oondemn-
ed in my own breast as a des^ter of my
coiintiT» nor attar them without the dan-
ger of beooming comtempt3>le in the eves
^ jpour lordships ; I will, however, follow
iny conscience, rather than my interests
and though I diould lose any pieMrt of my
U^le reputation, I shall find an ample re-
compenoe from the consciousness that I
lost It in the dischar^ of my duty, on an
occasion which reouires frcKn eveiy good
man the haaard of his life.
The arguments of the noble lord have
had upon me an effect which they never,
Mihaps, produced on any part of his au-
dience before; they have confirmed me
in the contraiy opmion to that which he
kas endeavoured to maintain. It has been
lemarked, that in some encounlen, not
|o put to flight is to obtain the victory :
ana, in a contraversy with the noble loni
net to be convinoed by him, is to receive
a sufficient proof that the cause in which
he is engaged is not to be defbndcd by
wity eloquenoe, or learning.
On the present ouestion, my lords, as
«i all others, he nas produced all that
can be^urgedy either from the knowledge
fif past agei^ or experience of the present;
ail that the Sjcholar or the statesawm can
eup(dy has been accumulated ; one argu-
ment has been added to another, and all
Ibe powers of a great capacity have been
empioyedy only to show that right and
wrong cannot be confounded, and that
fallacy can never strike with the force of
troth.
When I survey the arffuments of the
ydble lord, disrobed of those ornaments
which his imaffination has so liberally be-
Btowed upon them, I am surprised at the
momentairy effisct which they had upon
my mmd, and which they could not have
produced had diey been dothed in the
language of any other person.
rpr when I recollect, 8ingl3r, the par«
ticular positions upon which his opinion
aeems to be founded, I do not find them
by any means uncontrovertible; some of
Inem seem at best uncertain, and some
evidently mistaken.
That there is no apparent crime com-
mitted, and that therefore no \t^ en-
quiry can be made after the criminal, I
CMttothaaririthoutastiOBisbaNBU iaour
jMa«aibaa£Mb [Nft
oomoMroe ruined, aso mar iroa^tenyw
is parliament crowded with densafait^
are our fleets disarmed, our allies Mn^
and our enemies supported withootacnod^
Was there no certamty of any oisw am*
mitCed, when it was moved to petitioahis
majesty to dismim this peisoa fitm hia
councils for over?
It has been observed, asy lords, that no*
thing but a si|^ht of the dead bedy can
warrant a pumuit after the murderer; buC
this is a concession suffideot for die pie-
sent purpose ; for if, upon the sight of a
murdered penoo, the mnideier msy law«
fiilly be enquired after, and those who ase |
reasonably suspected detained and esa^
mined; with equal reason, ray hnds, amy I
the survey of a ruined natient a aalioa ^
oppressed with bttrtfaenae«:ie taxes, de-
voured by the caterpillars of a atandiog
army, sunk mto contempt in eveiy IbreigB
court, and repining at the daily decay of
its commerce, and the daily muhjplicstiQB
of its oppresaars, incite ua to an oaqpiiry
after the author of its aoisoriea.
It is asserted, that no asan oi^ to hs
called into question for any orime» who ii
Dot suspected of havii^ cemmitted it
This, m^ lords is a rule not only reassa-
able in itsdf, but so natwnally ebasrved,
that I believe it waa never yet brakaa;
and am oertain no man will be cband
with the violatien of it, fiar aocusiac d«
person as an enemy to his oeuntry.
But he that declares hia '—
be caDed upon to discovtf upoA vriMt ftcll
it is founded; nor will thia part of the hnr
produce any difficulty in the pceaent m^
tor as every man in the nation anaporfs Ihii
peraon of the mostenonnouacfiflaes»eseif
man can produce sufficient aigimants ta
justify his opini<m«
On all other nrrasioasi nwleada, pnyir
ikme ia allowed aoase weight; that ns
man ia univemally acoounted wicked, vm
add strength to the testimour hraigfat
against him for any particular omce; sad
it ia at least a sufficient reason far csUtq^
any man to examination that a aame a
committed, and he ia gettBraily reported
to be the author of it.
That thia is die state of thopesaon into
whose conduct the House of Connsens are
now enquiring, that be ia oeBaorad by
every man an the kiagdnas, whoae mso^
meats are not reprened bf maible lap
fiuence, lliat he has no fneaaa fantt thoie
I who have sold their integrity fortfaepte-
dar ef the public^ aod thataHii^ are pflt
»3
wtheBilhoM$nmyi1Bvidetiee.
A« .0.1741
[OM
J tlniMkd U» dmg him
Nvn firon the^piDiUKle of powor, and
;pQce him lo Oat pumBhrnent which he
m ao kag fJOMivad, and lo long defied^
evident hajraDdamtmdioliaii. .
Lai k nol diarafare he urgtA^ my kMrdi,
ia£ there ii DO eorab^ of a crima which
•poved to tba conviotion of every honoit
imd ; let it not be mid thai it is unrea-
mable to aaapect thia nan, whom the
oioe of the noopk, a voice always to be
everenced, nm ao long condemned.
The method of procarinc evidence
igaamt him by an aot of indemnity hm
leea mpmicated by the noble lord as not
gmaaUetojiiitioeortolaw: intheknow*
edge of the bw I am fiu> from imaginin|
i^f aUe to contend with him ; but I
biak it may not be improper to observe,
mte person of the highest eminence in
bstfifefessogi, whose long fltttdy and great
bilities give his decisions ap uncommon
laan toajithoii^ and veneration, and who
ns afamya eonstdaved in this House with
he highest rmfd> appears to have enter-
siaeda very oiferent opinion.
It wm dedared by bun, wilhoot the
cut restridiop, tfmt nU means were law-
U which tended to the discovery of tnitli,
md therefore the public may jusUy expect,
tfast es«raoidinafT methods should be used
ipsa oooMJons or unoommon impoitance.
Nor does this expedient appear to me
my lemete from the daily pcaetice of
pnmiang pardon tethievaa, en eoaditicn
Ibtdiey wiU make discofeiies by whicA
Ibeir oswderaHS may be broaght to jus-
6ee.
if we eKemine only the eqnity of vthis
pooedoie, wstheut rc^gard to theexamplaa
•f ibnaer times, it eppaam to me easi^
WessiUe; ibr what can be imne lationtd
tkiB ta bieak a confederacy of wratcfaea
CttBUned fer the destnsction Md die hap-
pneas of mankind, by dividing their inte*
mt, sad making use, for the pnUic good,
tfikat regard for their own safatir, which
W smdlmBed up e^eiy olher pcmciple of
•ctioa?
itk admits that wiekednem oughi to
fepnsiihod, and it is universally known
^ jisnishmqat must be preceded by de-
^im; any method ihar^eve that pro-
Ms the ffiaceaery of ciimm mi^ be con-
^desid m adeami^geous to the jpubhc.
At theiem an wiekednem or which the
P^aiottos csanseymnoes wm more eaten*
^ Ihme ia noae mhich ought more dlii-
¥^t^imftmt0adp ermope seeerelly
mttishad, than tM of tbMo aimi whe
have dared to ahnse the poaner which theie
country has put into their hands; bet horn
they can be convicted by any otbermeaoa
than those which are now proposed, I eon^
iem myself unable to dismret ; for by a
Tory small degree of artifiae, a man in«
vested with power vm^ malm every mi^
now a partner of his ^oilt; end ne mm
will be able to accuse him» withentbetmyF
ing hunself. In the present erne it is evir
dent, that the person of whose actions the
Bill now before lis is designed to prodnnn
a more perfect discovery, has been com«
bined with others in illegal measures which
their own security obliges them to con-
ceal, and which tnerefoie the interasi of
tbejpublic demands to be divulgad.
Iliat Pazton bw distributed lanp suma
fiK purposes which he dares not Acovwr^
we are iuformed by the Beports of Ao
Secret Committee; and I sapposeeyevy
body susnects that they were distr ibnted
as rewards for services which the natiaa
thinks not yen meritorious, and I bdtev*
no manwillask what reason oan be all^sd
for suoh suspicions.
Bttt since it may be nosaiMy suggaatad^
that Pazton expendea theae sums oscif*
tnny to his master's direction* or withooh
his knowledge, it may be demanded, whi^
ther auefa an assertion would «ot be an ap-
parent proof of a very crimittal dei|nae af
ncgKgiMce in a man entrusted witkthe
care of the public tremuae^
Thus, my lerda, it appeam in my opi*
mon evident, that either ijw has cenamrnd
in moasiims which his servile agent, the
mencenmy tool of wiekednem, is efnud to
confess, or that he has stood by m^Ugsai.
of his trust, and anfered the traeuue of'
t^ notion teheaquandered by the mnanaal
wseftdms without eocounl.
That the lailer part of the aoeusationm
undoubtedly just, the repoii of the Home
of GoBBmena cannot but coMrinoe as. it
appeam that for near mght ycaxa,, Paxton^
wasao highiafianfidnace, tbit ne aeeoana
was dftmaedfd fmm him; fae beatowad
pensions at pleasure, he was snneunded,
like his master, by his idaieten; and after
the fatigue of crmgine in one place,hed
aaopportunity of pmmaam^wilnthe taxes
of .the nation, tfie graaification of f
in another.
I presume, aiy lovds, that ne i
assert such a iagrant jm^ect of so tmpovw
tant an office, to he not 'Criminal in m wemf*
thigh.degroe; toetealm.priMitehonBm^mt
wUch is Baoei«edin4rust» is itlony by 4he
§grj IB GEORGE n.
statQM of our coimtrf i and snrdy the
wealth of the pablic ooghl not to be leia
aecured than that of indiridiuds, nor ought
he that oonnivea at robbenr to be treated
w^- more lenity than the robber.
Therefore, iny lords, aa I cannot but
approve of the Bill, I more that it may be
read a eecoodtime; and I hope the rea^
sons which i haye offered, wnen joined
with others, which I expect to hear from
lords tof a greater experience, knowledge
and capacity, will induce your lordships to
be of the same opinion.
Lord Heroey :
My lords ; as the Bill now before us
b of a new kind, upon an occasion no less
new, I have endeavoured to bestow upon
it a proportionate degree of attention, and
have considered it in all the lights in which
I could place it: 1 have, in my imagina-
tion, connected with it all the circum-
stances with which it is accompanied, and
idl the consequences that it may nroduoe
either to the present age, or to futurity ;
but the long;er I reflect upon it, the more
firmly am 1 determined to oppose it ; nor
has deliberation any other eitect, than to
erowd my tiboughts with new arguments
against it, and to heighten dislike to d&-
fetation.
It must, my lords, immediately occur
to every man at tiie first mention of the
method of proceedmg now proposed, that
it is such as nothing but extreme necessity
can vindicate; that the noble person
against whom it is contrived, must be a
monster burthensome to the world ; that
Ins crimes must be at once public and
enormous, and tiiat he has been already
condemned by all maxims of justice,
though he has had the subtilty to escape
by some unforeseen delect in the forms of
law. It might be imagined, mv lords,
that there were evident marks of guilt in
the conduct of the man thus censured,
that he fled from the justice of his countiy,
that he had openly suborned witnesses m
his fiivour, or nad by some artifice certainly
known, obstructed the evidence that was
to have been brought against him. It
might at least be reasonablv conceived,
that his crimes were of such a kind as
niditii^ their own natureeasily be con-
ceded, and that therefore some extraor-
dmary measures were necessary for the
discoverv of wickedness which lay out df
the reach of commcm enquiry.
But, my k»ds, none of these drcum-
itanoas can be now alleged; for there is
Debate in the LwJU
m
no certainty of anv crime coittaitted,iioi
any appearance « consctousnes or fev a
the person accused, who aeti \m cae
mies at defiaaoe in fill! security, aaids
dines no legal trial of his pattactioia
' which -it ought to be observed, tla
been so public, that they may easily bed
amined witiiout recourse to a new hnrl
fiicilitate discoveries.
The Bffl therefore is, my lords, St ha
unnecessary, and an innovation not uea
sary ought idways to be rejected, bean
no man can foresee all the conseiiaaMi
of new measures, or canknoirwbacil
they may create, or what sohseqiai
changes tiiey may introduce. The dti|
ation of one part of a system nstvri
reouires the akeration of another. I
But, mj lords, that there isno&Md
sity for this law now proposed, iiBttl
strongest argument that may be br«|
against it, for there is in realitv aim
sity that it diould be rejecteo. Jiatt
and humanity are necessarily to be a
ported,. without whidi nosodetycsoa
sist, nor the-life or proper^ of anymsij
enjoved with security : and neither joal
nor humanity can truly be said tona
where a law like this has met with ajfi
bation.'
My lords, to prosecute mj mm
such methods, is to overbear htm bf i
violence of power, to take from hm
the securities of innocence, and drreith
of all the means of self-defence. Itiii
hire against him those whose
ought not to be admitted, if tliey
voluntarily produced, and of which,
nothing will be fiuther necessaiy to
kte the validly, than to observe tbal
are the depositions of men who aievfl
by their ovm confessi<m, and ofwhomtM
nation sees, that they may save M
lives by a bold accusaticm, whether trae a
ftlse. I
That the Bill will indeed be effiactmltl
the purposes desired, that it will crasl
the courts of justice with evidence, ui
open scenes of wickedness neverdisooveid
before, I can readily believe; for I caoMl
imagine that any man whohas expoe6difl
life by any flagrant crime, wi^Bli8saoftil
an opportunity of saving it by snotfaer. I
shall expect, my lords, that viDains ofd
denominations, who are now skulking is
private retreats, whoare eludiogtheoSoA
of justice, or flying before thepoUic wi
smt of the country, will secure thena»4
by tfaiae«7 eifediait; vA^i^
m
Off the Bill to indemm/y Exidena.
A. D. 174<.
[670
li^keriy higliwqfnieii, and [Mckpockets,
viBcoine im in crowdt to the bar, diarge
die eirl of 6rford as their accomplioey and
■hid this Bill as a security against all
lliat this supposition, however wild and
ip^gersted it may seem, may not be
llBiigiit dtogether dumeriod, tKat it tdaj
Sm widi how little consideration this
has been drawn, and how easily it may
Isperrerted to the patronage of wickeo-
Ipiy 1 iriH lay before your lordships such
Ifksas may probaUy be produced by it.
^ -A Bin whom the consciousness of
Inrder hssfor some time kept in continual
may clear himself for ever, by
^, thai he was commissioned by the
of word to engage, with any certahd
^ the vote or interest of the murdered
|Mm; that he took the opportunity of a
biT place to ofier him the bribe, and
nail npoB him to comply with his pro-
sis; but that finding him obstinate and
liens, filled with pr^udices a^nst a
IS sod just administration, andmdined
abstract the measures of the govern*
bit, he for some time expostutoted with
I; and being provoked by his contu-
ikMS representations of the state of
an, he could no longer restrain the
rioor of his loyalty, but tnought it proper
RDOve from the world a man so much
Ibed to spread sedition among the peo-
)\ and that therefore finding the place
Bseaiettt, he suddenly rushed upon him
(lent his throat.
Ihos, m^ lords, misht the murderer
|Ksent his case, perm^, without any
sAflity of a le^^ confutation; thus
Hit the most atrocious villanies escape
&«, by the a».t«>ce of impudence
ps comunff.
ik Bill like ibis, my lords, is nothing
)m than a proscription ; the head of a
ilisen is apparently set to sale, and evi-
lence is hired, by which the innocent and
b^ailtymay be destroyed with equal
S^'
It IS apparent, my lords, that they
v whom this Bill is proposed, act upon
le sapjposition that the noble person men-
ianed m it, is guilty of all tnose crimes
i which he is suspected ; a supposition,
tPj lords, which it is unjust to make, and
s which neither reason, nor the laws of
nr countiy, will give countenance or
wort.
1, my lords, will much more equitably
oppose him innocent : I will suppose that
$ has, throughout allnbe years of his
admudstrntSon, steadily prosecuted the
bast ends, by the best means; that if he
has sometimes been mistaken or disap.
pomted, it has been neither by his negu-
oence nor %norance, but by fidse mtel-
figenoe, or accidents not tobe foreseen; and
that he has never either sacrificed hie
country to private interest, or procuied^
by any ill^al methods, the assistance and
support of the legislature; and I will ask
TOur lordships, whether, if this character
be just, the Bill ought to be passed, and
doubt not but every man's conscience will
inform him, that it ought to be rejected
with the utmolt indiarnation*
The reason, my lords, for which it
ought to be rejected, is evidently this»
that it may bring innocence into danger.
But,^ my lords, every man before hia
trial is to be supposed innocent, and there*
fore no man oi^^ht to be exposed to the
haaards of a trial, by whicn virtue and
wickedness are reduced to a levd. A
Bill like this ought to be marked out as
the utmost effort of malice, as a speciea
of cruelty never known before, and as a
method of prosecution which this House
has censuied.
I did not, indeed, expect from those
who have so long clamoured with inces-
sant vehemence against the measures <tf
the ministiy, sucn an open confession of
their own weakness. Nothing, my lords,
was so frequently urged, or so wmmly
exaggerated, as the impossibility of pro-'
curing evidence against a man m power ;
nothing was more confidently asserted,
than that his suilt would be easily proved
when his authority was at an end; and
that even his own agents would r^idily
detect him, when they were no longer de«
pendant upon his fovour.
The time, my lords, so long expected,
and so ardently desired, is at lengUi come;
this noble person, whom the^ have so lon^
pursued with dedaboations, invectives, and
general reproaches, has at length resigned
Uiose offices which set him a£yve punish*
ment or trial ; he is now without any other
security than that by which every other
man is sheltered from oppression, tne pub-
lic protection of the laws of his country;
but he is yet found impregnable, he is yet
able to set his enemies at defiance ; and
they have therefore now, with great saga-
city, contrived a method by which he
may be divested of the common privilegea
of a social bein^, and ma^ be hunted like
a wild beast, without defence, and widi«
out {Uty..
•71] 15 GEORGE IL
Where, m¥ lordi» etti it te
that malice like this will flpd en mii Is
it not foasenable te ioutf^ that if thej
should be gratified in tois demand, and
should find even this expedient baffled by
the abilities which they We so ofteA en*
qoantered without success, they would
proceed to measures yet more atrodoas,
end punish htm without evidence, whom
they call to a trial without a crime I
It has been observed by the nobb lord
who spoke last, that there are crimes men«
donedin the Report of the Secret Commit-
tee of the House of Commons, or that at
least such facts are asserted in it, that an
accusation may by easy deductions be
formed from them. The Report of that
Committee, my lords, with whatever vene-
lation it may be mentioned, by those
whose purposes it happens to favour, or
ef whatever importance it may be in the
<»her House, is here nothing but a pamph-
let not to be re^rded as an evidence, or
quoted as a writing of authority. It is
only an account of nets of which we know
not how they were coDeded, and which
•very one may admit or reject at his own
choice, till they are ascertained by proper
evidence at our own bar, and which there-
tone ought not to influence oar opinion
in the present debate.
Nor is the Bill, my lords, onlv founded
upon principles inconsistent witn the con*
stitution of this nation, apparently tending
to the introduction of a new species m
oppression, but is in itself such as cannot
be ratified without mjury to the honour
of this great assembly.
In examining the Bill, my lords, I diink
it not necessary to dwell upon the more
minute and trnrial defects of the ortho-
graphy and expression, thou^ they aiw
seal as might justly give occaskm for
auspectmg Uiat they by whom it was writ-
ten, were no less strangers to our language
than te our constitution. There $xe er-
rers or ialshoods which it more nearly
concerns us to detect, and to which we
cannot give any sanction, without an evi*
dent diminution of our own authority.
It dedarea, my lords, tfiat there is now
an enquiry depending befbre pariiamenC,
en assertion evident false, for the ei^
quiry is only befi>re the Commons. Whe^
tk^ this was inserted by mistake or d^
ajgb, whether it was intended te iasinttate
tluit die whole pariiamentary power was
coaqirised in the Honse of Coomsons, or
to persuade the nation tint yonr latdihipe
eoncurred with them in this enqniqrt at
isMl iMSstble to determine; bat «Boe it
is fidie in either sense, it ought not to re-
ceive our confirmation.
If we sboidd naoB the Bill in its preieDt
state, weshoulanot only dedve our ap«
probation of the measures hitherto pur.
suedby the Commons, by whidi it fassbeen
already proved, by the noble and Icsmed
lord who spoke first i^ainet the BiD, that
they have not only violated the lair, bat
invaded the privileges c^ this Hoase;v»
should not only eMblish for ever io a
committee of tKt^ House of Commons, the
power of examinmg upon oath by an elu-
sive and equivocatory expedient hot we
should in eroct yote away our own exist-
ence, give up at once all authority in the
government, and grant them an unlimited
power, by acknowledging them the par*
liament, an admowledgment which nugfat
in a veiy short time be quoted sgainst us,
and from which it would not be easy for
us to extriQSte ouraelves.
It has indeed hetn remarked, dnt tiiere
is a huge sum of money disburaed without
account, and the poUic is vepicseDtsd n
apparently mjured, either by fifsud or
negl^nce; but it is not remembered tfait
n<me but his maies^ has a rigitf td
enquire mto Uie distnbutlon of the rer^
nue approprmted to the support of h»
fiunily and dignity, and the pmMot of
his servants, ana which theremre can-
not in any degree be called public
money, or fall under the eognizaooe of
those whom it concerns to inspect the n^
tional accounts. Either the aril list mast
be exempt fi^om enquiriea, or his majesty
must be reduced to a state beknr that of
the meanest of his subjects; he can enjoy
neither freedom nor propeorty, and nuut
be debarred for ever from those Usssiagt
which he is boessantly Ubouing to secDR
to others*
There is likewise another oonaidentioo
wUch my regard ffar the honour oi this
sneoably suggested to me, and of which
I doubt not but that all your lordships wtfl
allow the importanoew The noble penoa
is pointed out m diis Bill as s poblie
and whom nU the vilkios of the
are invited te aoeuse, isisvestcd
the same honours as ounalves, sod
has a son who has for many ysan pos-
sessed a seat amongst us; ktusaottbere-
ftre oosioir with tim Conunons to load
our own House with infiuny, and to propo-
' lAidiwiaatlsstfixupoa
iaaMmendde m6 the ebyeotien^
on ih€ mM i& Imviimj^ Sndcfic€»
A. IX nte.
[871
Mi^iAiihnightyel beuigedy aad urged
wkheut any pMsibility of reply ; but as i
havt almoj been heard with so much
pitHoc^ I thmk what has been already
■entkned niiBctent to determine the ques-
lion: and as I doubt not but the other
defects and abiurdatiea will be observed,
if it bt iieceisary» by some other lords, I
ihallprefiii»eonly to add, that as the Bill
ippein to me contrary to the laws of this
Mtkio, to the coromon jostiee of society,
lod is the general reason of mankind, as
it DOBt naturally establish a precedent of
oppKsmm, and confirm a species of au-
tkoii^ m the other House which was
either never claimed before, or always de*
Ded; SI 1 think the most notorious and
public criminal ouffht not to be depmed
of that method of defence which the esU-
bMed customs of our couatrv allow him,
nd bdiare the person mentioned in ^is
Bill te deserve rather i^lauses and re-
wards than censures and punishments, I
think mysdf obliged to oppose it, and hope
tt find year loraships unanimous in the
nneophiioo*
TheDukeofifr^yfe.*
Mylopds; whatever may be the
to of this question, I have httle hope
thu it will be unanimooshr decided, be-
ttwe I have reason to fear that some
lords hare conceived prejudices against
die KO,^ which hinder them from disco*
wring cither its reasonableness or its ne*
eesaty; and am cdhvinced that others
who apnrove the Rill, can support Uieir
opinion qy arguments from whicn, as th^
camot be confuted, they never will
Koode;
Those arguments which have inilu*
noed my opinion, I will lay before your
Msh^ and doubt not of showing that
I SB veiy fiur from giving way to per-
wnal mahoe, or the prejudices of oppo-
iition ; and that I reaard only the voice of
nasoD, and the call of the nation,
CalmnesB and impartiality, my lords,
^ been with mreat propriety reoom-
AMuled to us by ttie noble lord who spoke
^ in this dclmte ; and I hope he will
^^scover by the moderation with which I
AsU deliver my senthnents on this ooca-
*on, how much I reverence his precepts,
iad how willin^y I yield to his authority.
I am at least certain, that I have hi-
ttcrto Ibtened to the arguments that have
kca oftred en eicber side with an at-
intion void of prefudieei I have le-
r^mA BO mUene ef ionfMoa^ nor
[VOL. ML]
dMtmeled mvmiad from any difieultv, to
avoid the lanour of solving it: I nave
been solicitous to survey every position in
its whole extent, and trace it to its re*
motest consequences ; I have assisted die
ifrguments against the Bill by favourable ^
suppositions and imaginary circumstances,
and have endeavoured to divest my own
opinion of some appendant and accidental
advantages, that I might view it in a state
less hkdy to attract r^^ ; and yet 1
cannot find any reason by which I coidd
justify m^lf to my country or my con-
science, if 1 should concur in rejecting this
Bill, or should not endeavour to promote it.
I am not unacquainted, my lords^ with
the difficulties that obsfruct the know-
ledge of our own hearti, and cannot deny
that inclination may be sometimes mis^
taken for convicUon ; and men even wise
and honest, may imagine themselves to
believe what, in reality, they only wish s
but this, my lords, can only happen for
want of attention, or on sudden emer-
gencies, when it is necessary to deter^
mine with little consideration, while th^
passions have not yet time to subside, and
reason is yet struggling with the emotiona
of desire*
In other circumstances, my lords, I
am convinced that no man imposes on
himself without conniving at the frauds
without consciousness that he admits an
opinion which he has not well examined,
and without consulting indolence rather
than reason; and therefore, my lords, I
can with confidenee a£9rm, that I now
declare my real opinion, and that if I err,
I err only for want of abilities to discover
the truth ; and hope it wiU appear to youi^
lordships, that I have been misled at least
by specious arguments, and deceived by
fallacious appearances, which it is no re-»
proach not to have been able to detect.
It will, my lords, be granted, I sup«
pose, without hesitation, that the law ie
consistent with it3elf ; that it never at the
same time commands and prohibits the
same action, that it cannot be at once
violated and observed* From thence it
will inevitably follow, that where the cii^
cumstances of any transaction are such,
that the principles of that law by which it
is cogniaable are opposite to each other,
some expedients may be found by whidi
these circumstanoes may bealtered. Other*
wise a subtle or powemii dehnquent will
always find shelter in amb^uities, and the
)mr wOl remain hiactive, like k bahmce
leaded equally Oft eaok sNk
C7S] 15 GEORGB IL
On' the present occasion, mv lords, I
pronounce with the utmost conndence, as
a maxim of indubitable certainty, ** That
the public has a claim to every man's eyi-
dence," and that no man can plead ex*
emption from this duty to his country.
But those whom false gratitude, or con-
tracted notions of their own interest, or
fear of being entangled in the snares of
examination prompt to disappoint the jus-
tice of the public, ur^ with equal vehe-
mence, . and indeed with equal truth, that
** no man is obliged to accuse himself,**
and that the constitution of Great Britain
allows no man's evidence to be extorted
from l^im, to his own destruction.
Thus, my lords, two of the first prin-
ciples of the English law, though maxims
equally important, eoually certain, and
equally to be preservea from the least ap-
pearance of violation, are contradictory to
each other, and neither can be obeyed,
because neither can be infring^ed.
How then, my lords, is tms contradic-
tion to be reconciled, and the necessity
avoided of breaking the law on one side or
the other, but by the method now pro-
posed, of setting Uiose whose evidence is
required, free from the danger which they
may incur by^ eiving it ?
The end of the law ^ the redress of
wrong, the protection of right, and the
preservation of happiness; and the law is
f 0 far imperfect as it fails to produce the
end for wtiich it is instituted ; and where
any imperfection is discovereid, it is the
province of the legislature to supply it.
By the experience, my lords, of one
generation, after another, by the continued
application of successive ages, was our
law brought to its present accuracy. As
new combinations of circumstances, or
unforeseen artifices, of evasion, discovered
to our ancestors the insufficiency of former
provisions, new expedients were invented ;
and as wickedness improved its subtilty,
the law multiplied its powers, and ex-
tended its vieilanoe.
If I should, therefore, allow, what has
been urged, that there is no precedent of
a Bill like Uiis, what can be inferred from
it; but that wickedness has found ash^ter
that was never discovered before, and
which must be forced by a new method of
•ttack ? And what then are we required
to do Qiore than has been always done
by our ancestors, on a thousand occasions
•f far less importance?
I know not, my lords, whether it be
possible to imagine an eoiergence that can
DOtUmOeLorii
more evidently require the interpMitioa
of the legidative power, than this vhidi
is now proposed to your considentkn.
The nation has been betrayed in peace,
and disgraced mwar; the constitutioabai
been openly invaded, the. votes of the
House of Commons set publicly to sale,
the treasures of the public hsTe been
squandered to purchase security to those
by whom it was oppressed, the people
are exasperated to madnfisH, die Commou
have b^un the enquiry that has been
for more than twenty years demanded
and eluded, and justice b on asudden in-
superably retarded by the deficienqr of
the law.
Surely, my lords, this is an occaaoa
that may justify the exertion of muuual
powers, and yet nothing either new or un-
usual is required; for the Bill now pro-
Ked may oe supported both by pmx-
ts of occaMonai laws, and panlleista-
tutes of lasting obligation.
When frauds have been committed bj
the agents, of trading companies, bills «
indemnity to those by whom any discor
veries should be made, have been proposed
and passed without any of those dreadiiil
consequences which some noble Iwds bars
foreseen in this. I have never heaid that
any man was so stupid as to mistake socb
a Bill for a general act of grace, or thai
tlie confession of any crimes was procored
by it, except of those which it was in-
tended to detect ; I have never been in-
formed, that any murderer was bless-
ed with the acutenesB of the noble lord,
or thought of flying to such an actss toa
common shelter for villan^. Such suppo>
sitions, my lords, can be mtended onlj to
prolong a controversy and weary an op-
ponent ; nor can such trifling esag^r*
ations contribute to any other end, than
of dlscoveiHu; the fertility <rf imaginatioo,
and the exuberance of Sequence.
For my part, my lords, 1 think passion
and neglig^ce equally culpable in a de»
bate like this ; and cannot forbear to re-
commend seriousness and attentioin, with
the same zeal, with which moderation and
impartiality have already been incalcated.
He that entirely disregards the. question
in debate, who thinks it too trivial for a
serious discussion, and speaks upon it with
the same superficial gaiety with which he
would relate the change of a fashi(»,.or
the incidents of a bsdl, is not very likelfi
either to discover or propagate tte truth;
and is less- to be pardoned, than be who
is beti»7ed by paasion into absuiditieai 9§
m
M the Sai'to imknuii^ Smdeiu».
A. IX 1744.
t(Sft9
ft is 1m8 criminal to injure our coontiy by
keal than bj contempt.
: That Bifia^ without any eaaential dif-
ference from that which is now before us,
have been paaaed in ivvonr of private com-
nameSy is indisputably certain ; it is cer-
tain that they never produced any other
efecty than such as were expected from
them by those who promoted them. It
is erident, that the wdfare of the nation
is more worthy of our regard than any
separate company ; that the whole is of
more importance than a part ; and there*
fore the same measures may be now used
^th far greater justice, and with eqtud
probability of success.
The necessity of the law now proposed,
mjr lords, cannot more plainly appear, than
by reflectinff on the absurdity. or Uie pleas
nuule use offer refusing it, which, consi-
dered in the whole, contain only this as-
sertion. That the security of one man is
to be preferred to justice, to truths to pub-
lic ^ci^ ; that a precedent lis rather to
be established, which will for ever shelter
every future minister from the laws of our
country; and that all our miseries are
rather to be borne in silence, or lamented
b impotence, than the man, whom the
whole nation agrees to accuse as the au-
thor of them, should be exposed to the
hazard of a trial, even before those whom
every tie of interest and long-continued
affection has united to him.
It is indeed objected, that by passing
this Bill, we shall transfer the authority
of trving him to the other House ; that
we shall give up our privileges for ever,
erect a new court of judicature, and over-
turn the constitution.
I have long observed, my lords, how
vam it ia to argue against those whose
KS(^utions are determined by extrinsic
motives, and have been long acquainted
widi the art of disguising ^tinacjS by
U) Appearance of reasons that have no
veignt, even in the opinion of bun by
whom they are offered, and of raising
douds of objections, which, by the first
nplj, will certainly be dissipated, but
which, at least, fill the mouth for a time,
ud preserve the disputant from the re-
pmdi of aldhering to an opinion, in vin-
dication of which he had nothing to say.
Of this kind is the objection which I
■a iio# to remove, though I remove it
•olj to make way for -anothter, for those
m^ncrrer be denced who can satisfy
^ wiakarflnamentsiacethis; how-
I thttoleril expect it should
be answered, and if it should be passed
over in the debate, wiH boast of its irre-
fragability, and imagine that they have
gained the victory by the superiority
of their abilities, rather than of their
numbers.
That we shall, by passing this Bill, give
the Commons a power which they want
at present, is unquestionably evident ; but
we shall only retrieve that whi<^ they
were never known to want before^the
power of producing evidence; evidence
which we, my lor<u, must hear, and of
whose teltimcmies we shall reserve the
judgment to ourselves. The Commons
will onlv act as prosecutors, a character
in whicii they were never conceived to
encroach upon our right. The man whose
conduct is the subject of enquiry, must
stand his trial at our. bar; nor has the
Bill any other tendency, than to enable
the Commons to bring him to it.
What can be alleged against this de-
sign I know not ; because I can dbcover
no objections which do not imply guilt,
and guilt we are not yet at liberty to sup-
pose. ' I am so far from pressing this BiU
from any motives of personal miuevolence,
that I am only doing, in the case of the
minister, what I should ardently desire
to be done In my own, and what no man
would wish to obstruct, who was support-
ed by a consciousness of integri^, and
stimulated by that honest sense of repu-
tation which I have always found the con«
comitant of innocence.
• I hope I shall be readily believed by
your lordships, when I assert once more,
that I should not only forbear all opposi-
tion to a BiU intended to produce a
scrutiny into my conduct, but that I
should promote it with all my interest, and
solicit all my friends to expedite and sup-
port it; for there was once a. time, my
lords, in which my behaviour was brought
to the test, a time when no expedient was
forgotten by which I might be oppressed,
nor any m^od untried to procure accu-
sations against me.
Whether the present case in every cir-
cumstance will stand exactly parallel to
mine» 1 am very far from presuming to
determine. I had served my country with
industry, fklelity, and success, and had
received the illustrious testimony of my
conduct, the public thanks of this House.
I was conscious of no crime, nor had
gratified in my servicee any other passion
than my seal for the nublic 1 saw mvself
ignorainlQUsly diaGarcM>aod attacked.by
079J
15 GSOBSB'JL
eirery in«thod of Cfluinno^ «nd vefHMc^
Nor was the roa^ce of my eaemiaf satisfied
with destroying my repolatka wilkotil im-
pairing my fortune: for this purpose a
prosecution was projected, a wretch was
found out who engaged to accuse. me* and
received his oardon for ao otker purpoae ;
nor did 1 make lioy opposition to it in this
House, though I kn^w the intoAt with
which it was procured, and was informed
that part of my estate was a]lot|ed him to
harden his heart, a4»d stfwgtboa toaasar
tions.
This, my la|rd% is syvely a piwadent
which 1 hf ve a right to quote, aad wJiioh
will vindicfkte me to ^our lordahms from
the imputation o£ partiality and mMyrity;
since it is apparent, that I do only in the
oase of another, what I wiUinriy submitted
to, when an enquiry was mauqg mlo my
Gpnduct.
But, my lords, this is far frombeiQI^ the
only precedent which may be pleaded in
&vour of this Bill ; a Bill which ia reality
concurs with the ^eral aad regular prac-
tice of the established law, as will appear
tp every one that ooo^pares it with the
eighth section of the act for preventing
Bribery; in which it is estaUidied as a
perpjetual hiw. That he who, having taken
a bribe, shall, within twelve months, in-
&Km against him that gave it, shaU be re*
oeived as an evidence, and be indemnified
from all the consequences of his discovery*
To these arguments of aeason aaid pre-
cedent, I will add one of a more prevaient
kind) drawn from motive of interest, whkh
surely would direot our ministen to favoar
the enquiry, and promote eveiy espedieat
that m^t produce a compete diwcwssion
of the putnic affiiirs; since they would
ahow, that the^ are not afraid of ihe moife
zigorous scratmv, and are above any fears
that the preoeaent which they are now
Qptabllshing may revolve upaa themselvfls.
To elude the ratification of this BiU, it.
vma at first urged that there was no proof
of any crime; aod when it was sbowii,
that there was an apparent misaf^lication
of the public moaoyi it became necessary
to determine upea a more hardy assertioat
and to silence malicious re^sonera^ by
showing them how little their arfiwMDts
would be regarded. It then was deaiad,
with a spirit worthy of the cause in which
it was exerted, that the civil list was puUic
money.
Disputmits like theae, way lords, ore not
bom to be eonfiaed^ it would he to little
PPiKpcse iba^my ipanahMU a«k».wtetfiM
AsMeMlkJUi* (OB
llie MOM^ allotted te <hacMlSstm
not granted by the puhlac^ aad vheftsr
pobhp ^miits did not profaoe puhUe
mone¥ ; it wouU be without M^ efet|
that toe uses for whici that grant » iDsd^
should be enunevated, and the misspplica*'
tion of it openly proved; a distinctwn^ sr
at least a negative, would be ahrayi at
hand, and obstinacy and interest woald
turn argument aside.
Upon what jpriociples, my lops^.we can
mow caU out tor a proof of crimes, aad
proceed in the debate as if ao just roasoa
ofsuspicion bad appeared, I am oat abfe
to coQJecture; here is» in my opiaioa, if
not demonstrative proof, yet the itrai^gast
pvepumption of one of the gieatast crimes
of which any man can he guilty- ihe
propagation of wickedness} of the saost
atrocious breaqh ^ trust which can be
chaiged won a British minister^-a deli-
berate tnffic fie^r the liberties of his
countfy.
Of these oaomoiis villamies, however
difficult it may now aoem to disengagehim
firom than, I hope we diall see reason to
acquit him at the bar of this House, at
which, if he be innocent, he ou|^t to be
desirous of appealing ; nor do his friendi
consult his honour, bjf endeavouring to
withhold him from it; if they, indeed, be-
lieve him guilty, they may toen easSy jus-
tify their condua to him, but the world
will, perhiqus require a more pubUc viodi:
oatiOB,
Theaei my lord^ are tfie afgrnneati
which have influenced me hitherto to ap*
prove the Bill now be&re ua, and which
will contifiue their prevalence, till I shall
hear them confutea; and if they areaot
altogether uoaaswerahLe, th^ are suiely
of so much importance, that the Bill w
which they have been produced, mustbe-
allewed to deserve at least a deliberate ei*
aminatioi^ and may very ji^itly be referred
to a cemmittee, ia which ambigaitks
flsay be removed, and inadvevtoociei coh
reoted.
Lord Cholmonddey:
Mylords; thia Bill is in ngr opoMi
so far from deserving apprebatioB, that I
am in doubt whether I shoidd retaird th#
determinatia& of the Hoq9e» hy \Byttig
before yoii th# M^MBOoe wbieb iafiimoa Die
io this debate^ n^ iuideed couM i pse^
li^poa n^yvelf 10 enter ipto # formal wsW'
sioo-of a questian, on which J shouUhiivs
ijoaagpned thai «li mwkiaid. would hm
II]
OK He JKUio-mdemj^ Smimtee.
A. o« vm-
m
the ahOitiet of ifaoit &oH« l«fdi wlio
f e spoicea in defeaoe of die BQl, iodmft
e, eveo i^gwnit tfia coBvictifltt of my own
as(i^to8aipecl tlnuaigunentf 111^ hm
ksti in its niTour« whica 1 hyra not yet
ien able to dkcoVier; and that those
hich have been produeed, however ii^
mdusive th^ have seemed, will operate
lore powefttflv wh^ they ace more fully
iplajed, uA better understood.
For this reason I shall lay befQre your
inkhips the objectieos whicn arose in my
dodwhen the Bill was first laid before us^
ad vhich have rather been streagthened
aasioTalidati^ by the subsequent debate*
It appears, my lords, evident to me,
tiate?ery manhftt a right to be tried by the
Qoiro laws of hk country; that no man
Ud be justly punished by a law made
(br the commissioQ of a faot, because be
len suffecs by a law, agaiast which he
erer tiaa^reased; aor is any man to be,
rosecuted by methods invented only to
idlhate his condemnation, because he
ught to be acquitted, however guilty he
ny be sujppoeed, whom the estabUshed
ula of jusUce cannot convict. The law,
Bj lords, is the measure of political, as
^Mcience of moral right ; and he that
)reak» no law, may mdeed be criminal.
Kit is not punishable. The law likewise
describes toe method of prosecutjpg guilt ;
u^ as we^ by omitting any crime in our
iws, disable ouraelves from punishing it,
lovever public or flagrant, so by regulat-
og the process in our courts of justice,
re give security to that guilt, which by
t^ process cannot be detected.
Tbs truth of this assertion, my lords,
l^^ver paradoxical it nuvjr perKaps ap-
pear, win become evident, tf we sufmose a
nan brought to the bar, whose guilt was
JUMjuestiooable, tbou^ it could not be
i^y proved, because all those were dead
too m^t have appeared i^ainsthiffl. It
u certaio that his good fortune would give
miQDodsuB to pardon^ and yet he could
not be convicted, unless we Buppose him
weak enough to accuse himseliv In this
ciae) Biy lords, it is not impossible, that
tooiemight be prompted by their zeal tp
Fopoie, that the foreign noethods of jus-
tice might be introduced, and the rack
^<>y^to e2;tQrt from bis own naouth a
^^"^7^^ of those crimen of iwbich every
^^fetievedhimguil^.
Kv>ith what horrcHT, my brds» snch a pro-
wsald be heaid, bow loudly it would
I tJT^ and how universally rcijected,
AiMnotiay; but must obaenre»that»iA
Hie deteilatien would ariNi
pnnapaUy 6om a sense of the injustice ef
exposmij^ anjr man to peculiar hardsbipsi
and distmguishine him to his disadvantagA
from the rest of &e commani^*
It will, my lords, not be eaay to prots^
tboit it is less agreeable to justice to oblige
a man toaocuse himself* than lo make use
of extraovdiiiary methods of procurmg
evidence against him} becaose the barriers
<3i security which the law has fixed ai«
equally brokiyi in either case^ and the
accused is exposed to dangers, &om which
be had reasmi to believe himself sheltered
by the constitution of his country.
^ This arfpiment, my lords, I have neiH
tioned, without endeavouring to evinoe
the innocence of the person whom tliis
Bill immediately regards; because thc(
intent of it is to show, that no man is toi
be deprived of the common besiefits of tlie
constitution, and that the guiltv have n
a* ht to all the advantage which the hns
>wsthem. For guilt is never to be su|^
poaed till it is proved, and it is therefore
never to be proved by mew methods,
merely because it is supposed.
That the method of procuring evidence
now proposed is new, my lords, I think it
no teoaerity to conclude; because tfiH
noble lords who have endeavoured to de^
fend it, have produced no instance of •
parallel practices and their knowledge ai»d
acuteness is such, that they can only havm
&iled to cKscover them, because they aso
indeed no where to be found.
In the case of bribery, my lords, the
person accused has the privilege; if be be
mnecent, of prosecuting his accuser for
jury, and is therefore in less daiager of
hamssed by a false indictaienk
But,^my liNrds, this is not the only diffi^C
reace between the two cases; for he theft
discovers a bribe received by himself, baa
no motives of interest to prompt his evi«.
dence ; he is only securea from suftring-
by his own discovery, and might have
been equally safe by silence and secrecy ;
since the hiw supposes the crime out of
the reach of detection, otherwise thsn by
the confession of the criminal.
fittt far diftrrnt, my lords, are the cir-
eumstaneea of these who are now invitcdt
te throM the courts of justke, and stun'
us with £positiona and discoveries. Tbe^
are men auppesed eriminal by the indem^
nity which is oftred them; and by the
natere of theircriasesil is madeet leastt
prohaUe, that fhey are in daav hasacd of
disoeiiary» end ymjahmenii mes vhidb''
ms]
IB VSJbtLGJS U.
t>daie in the toirh
tm
tfiey are lammoned to ieC themtelvei fi^
tar ever, by ftccuiing a man of whom it has
Bot been yet proved that he can legdly be
ealled to a trial.
Thus, my lords, in the law which the
noble duke has mentioned as a precedent
fbr Uiis Bill, the accuser is only placed in
a kind of equilibrium, ^ually secure from
ponishment, by silence or by information^
m hope that tne love of truth and justice
will turn the balance ; in the Bill now be-
fore us the witness is in continual danger
S withholding his evidence, and is restor-
to perfect safbty by becoming an ac-
cuser, and from making discoveries, whe-
ther true or false, has every thing to hope
and nothing to fear.
• The necessity of punishing wickedness
has been urged with great strength ; it has
been unanswerably shown, b^ the advo-
cates for this Bill, that vindictive justice is
- 0f the highest importance to the happiness
«f the pubHc, and that those who may be
injured with impunity, are in reality denied
the benefits of society, and can be said to
live in the state of uncivilized nature, in
which the strong must prey upon the
•weak.
This, my lords, has been urged with all
the appearance of conviction and sincerity,
and jet has been urged by those who are
providing a shelter for the most enormous
villainies, and enablmg men who have
violated every precept of law and virtue,
to bid defiance to justice, and to sit at
ease in die enjoyment of their acquisi-
tions*
' And what, my lords, is the condition,
Upon which wickedness is to be set free
from terror, upon which national justice is
10 be disarmea, and the betrayers of pub-
Hc counsels, or the plunderers of pdblic
tireasare, qualified for new trusts, and set
•n a level with untainted fidelity ? A con-
dition, my lords, which wretches like these
will very readily accept, the easy terms of
information and of perjury. They are re-
quired only to give evidence against a man
narked out fbr destruction, and the guilt
of partaking in his crimes is to be eimced
by the merit of concurring in his ruin.
It has indeed been a method of detec-
tion, frequently employed against house-
breakers and highwaymen, to proclaim a
pardon for him that shall convict his ac-
eomplices; but surely, my lords, this
mactice will not in tne present question
00 mentioned as a precedent Surely^ it
will not be thought equitable to level with
M«B% and with thieves, a penon dtstin-
guished by his rank, his employmeDfs, bis
abilities, and his services ; a person, whose
loyalty to his sovereign has never been
Cfdled in question, and whose fidelity to his
country has at least never been disprored.
These are measures, my lords, which I
hope your lordships will never concur to
promote; measures not suppbited either
oy law or justice, or enrorced by any
exigence of affiurs, but dictated by perse-
cution, malice, andreven^; measures by
whidi the gtiilty and the mnocent may be
destroyed with equal fiicility, andwhidt
must therefore tend to encourage wicked-
i they destroy the security (^virtue.
The Earl of Chesterfield r*
My lords; 1 have so long honoured
the abilities, and so often concurred with
the opinion of the noble lord who began
the debate, that I cannot without tmusua!
concern, rise up now to speak in opposition
to him ; nor could any other -prinriple
support me under the apparent aisadvao-
ta^ of a contest so unequal, but the con-
sciousness of upright intentions, and the
concurrence of the whole nation.
I cannot but consider myself on this oc-
casion, my lords, as the aavocate of the
people of Great Britain, who, after con-
tinued oppressions, losses, and iiidij^ities
after having been plundered and ridicdedi
harassed and insulted for complaining,
have at length flattered themselves that
diey should have an opportunity of appeal-
ing to our bar for justice, and of secariog
themselves firom future injuries, by the
punishment of those that had so loo^
triumphed in their guilt, proclaimed their
defiance of justice, and declared that the
laws were made only for their security.
The expectations of the people have
been frustrated by the unexpected obsti-
nacy of the agents of wickedness, by a plea
that was never made use of for the same
Eurpose before, against which the known
iws of the nation have provided no r^
medy, and which your lordships are there-
fore now called upon to overtnrow.
That the nation calls loudly for an en-
quiry, that the misapplication of the pub-
lic treasure is universally suspected, and
that the person mentioned in the Bill is
believed to be the chief author of that
misapplication; that at least those. who
have squandered it have acted by his au^
* In the Collection of Br. Johnson's M****;
this Speech is emoeeusly attribated ts U^
Carteret
»]
an ihi BiU ia'indemiiyjf Evidence.
A.D. IIHSU
[088
oritjT, and been admitted to trust by his
commendation, and that he is therefore
t:ountable to the public for their con*
net, I shall suppose cannot be denied.
The nation, my lords, has a ri^t to be
ratified in their demands of an enquiry,
haterer be the foundation of their suspi-
loos; uDce it is manifest that it can pro-
uce no other effects than those of giving
€fr lustre to innocence, and quieting the
hmours of the people, if it should be
9und that the government has been ad-
linistered with nonesty and ability ; and
t is not lets evident that, if the ||;eoeral
(pinioQ is well grounded, if our mterest
las been betray^, and that money em-
Joyed only, to corrupt the nation which
f» raiaed for the defence of it^ the se-
verest punishment ou^t to be inflicted,
hat all future ministers may be cteterred
Tom the same crimes by exeniplary ven-
[cance.
Thus, my lords, an enquiry appears
ipoo eveiy supposition useliil and neces-
ary ; but I cannot comprehend how it can
be prosecuted by any other method, than
(bt of proposing an indemnity to those
tho shall make discoveries.
Ever^ wicked measure, my lords, must
iavohre in guilt all who are engaged in it ;
and how easily it may be concealed from
crerj other person may be ahown by an
example of a crime, which no man will
^y to have sometimes existed, and which
is the opinion of most is not very uncom-
mon in this age.
It will be £owed, at least, that on some
^^c^^ttioDs, when a fiivourite begins to tot-
ter, when .strong objections are raised
ig^nst the continuance of a standing
^h ^hen a convention requires Uie nu
|i^on of the legislature, or some &tal
wess is proposed to be presented to the
oovn, a pecuniary rewara may sometimes
1» offered, and though that, indeed, be a
nppontion more difficult to be admitted,
»<nnetime8, however rarely, accepted.
Iq this case, my lords, none but he that
gireaandhe that receives the bribe can
w conscious of it; at most we can only
^ppose an intervening agent to have any
>novle% of it; and if even he is ad-.
nutted to the secret so as to be able to
Bake a legal discovery, there must be some
<i«iect of cunning in the principals. Let
^ consider from which of these any dis-
^ery can be probably expected, or what
1^ can be alleged, for which- either
«ould expose himself to punuhment for
ttenkeofxaimng his associates.
It b, therefore, my lords, plam froaa
this instance, that without the confiession
of some guilty person, no discoveiy can
be made of those crimes which are most
detrimental to our haj^iness, and most
dangerous to our liberties. It is apparent
that no man will discover his own guilt,
while there remains any danger of su&iw
ing by his confession ; it is certain that
such crimes will be committed, if they are
not discouraged by the &ar of punish'*
ment, and it cannot therefore be denied
that a proclamation c^ indemnity is ne*
cessary to their detection*
This, my lords, is not, as it has been
alleged, a method unknown to our con*
stitution, as every man that reads tb^
common papers will easily discover. I
doubt if there has been for many years e
sinffle month in which some reward, as
w^ as indemni^, has not been promised
to any man, who, having been engaged in
a robbery, would diacover his oonfiSleiates ;
and surely a method that is daily prac-
tised for the security of private property*
may be very rationsuly and justly aoopted
by the legislature for the preservation of
the happiness and the property of th#
public*
The punishment of wickedness, my
lords, is undoubtedly one of the essentiiu
parts of good government, and in resli^
the chief purpose for wtndk society is in-
stituted ; for now will that society m which
any individual may be plundered, enslaved,
and murdered without .redress and without
punishment, differ from the state of cor-
rupt nature, in whidi the strongest must
be absolute, and right and power always
the same?
That constitution, therefore, which has
not provided for the punishment, and pr»>
viously for the discovery of guill^ is so fiir
in a state of imperfection, ami requirea t»
be strengthenea by new provisions. Thisy
my lords, is for from bemg our state, for
we have in our.hands a method of detect-
ing the most powerfol criminals, a method
in Itself agreeable to reason, recommended
by the practice of our predecessors, and
now approved once more by the sanction
of one of the brandies of the legislature.
The objections which have on this oo*
casion heea knade against it, are such asna
law can' escape, and which therefore can
have no weignt; and it is no small con-
firmation |of the expediency of it, that th^»
by whom it has been opposed, bane nol
been able to attack it with stiQiiger ffaasoiisi
from wUchi if wt ceDsidar. their abOilii^
wn
15 GBCMtGS IL
ApMiif vw Mf iMfw^
[6S8
cured it bul the power of tnith*
It to OMutred by the noble lord, how
ire shall outinguish true from fttoe evU
denee; to which it xxxkj be very readily
enswered, that we shall dittiogiitoh them
by the aeme means as on anv other occa-
liotti by conapafiog the allegations, and
considering how every witness agrees widi
ethers and with himielf, how far his asser-
tions are in themselves probable, how
tiiey are confirmed or weakened by known
drcasostanoes, and how far they are inva-
lidated by the contrary evidence.
We shaR, my lords, if we add our sane-
tiott to this Bill, discover when any man's
Sttcusatien to prompted b^ hto interest, as
we miffht know whether it was dictated by
htomdioe.
U has been asked also, how any man
can ascertain hto claim to the indemnity?
To whidi it may be easily replied, that by
giving hto evidence he acquires a right,
tUt tmU evidence shaU be proved to be
lUse.
The noUe lord who spoke some time
ago, and whose abHitieB and qualities are
Mch, thai 1 cannot but esteem and admire
him, even when conviction obliges me to
oppose him, has proposed a case in which
he seems to imagine that a murderer might
secure himself from punishment, by con-
necting hto crime with some transaction in
which the earl of OHbrd should be in-
terested. Thto case, my Iwds, to suffi-
ciently improbable, nor is it easy to men-
tion any method of trial in which some
inconvenience may not be produced, in
the indi^ile compUcations of cbcum-
stances, and unforeseen relations of events,
it to known to have happened once, and can-
not be imown not to nave happened often,
tlMt a person accused of murder, was
tried by a jury of which tiie real murderer
was one. Will not this, then, be an argu-
ment affainst the great privile^ of the na-
tives of thto kingdom— « trial by their
equals f
But, my lords, I am of opinion that the
murderer would not be indemnified by
thto Bill, since he did not commit the
crime by the direction of the person whom
he to supposed to accuse; nor would it
iMtve any necessary connection witii hto
oottduct, but might be suppressed in tiie
eeeusation, without any duamution of the
ftfce of the evidence. A man will not
be soilhred to mtiedoce hto aoousation
eMi an acoouni of all tiw viUanies of hto
^i^Mft^heinfll beiefotoedlaeoBfliie
htotsstimotiytothK afiurapoe irUch b#
toexanrined*
The committee, my lords, will dis-
tinguish between the crimes pcrpctmed
by thedirectioci of tiie earl of Orionl,aDd
those of another kind. And should a&
enormeos criminal give such evidenoe, ai
the noble lord was pleased to suppoK,
he may be indemnified for the bribery,
but will be hanged for the murder, not-
withstanding any thii^ in thto Bill to tibe
contrary.
It has been insisted on by the ooUe
lords, who have spoke against the BiB,
that no crime to proved, and therefore
there to no foundation for it But, mj
lords, I have always tiionght that the pn)-
fiision of the public money wmacrme,
and there is evidently a very toi^ sua
expended, of whtdi no account hat bees
ghren ; and what more nearly rehtet \h
tiie present question, of whidi no scoount
has ever been demanded.
On thto occasion, my lord^ an ssserttoi
has been alleged, which no penoni) r^
gard shall ever prevail upon me to hear
witiiout dieting it, siqce I thinic H s
of the most dangerous tendency, and qh
supported by reason or by law. It is al-
leged, my lords, that the civil Itot isnotio
be considered as public monev^^ snd that
the nation has therefore no cUum to eo*
quire how it to distributed ; that it is givn
to support the dignity of the crown, m,
thai only hto majesty can ask the reasa
of any milures in the accounts of it
1 Have on the contrary, my lords, hither'
to understood, tiut all was public moaej
which was p;iven by the pubhc. The pe-
sent condition of the crown to very difer<
ent from that of our ancient monarchy
whp supported their dignity by th^ o*v
estates. I admit, my lords, that tib^
might at pleasure contract or enhir^ theoi
expences, mortgage or alienate ^>^|^
or bestow presents and pensions, withod
controul.
It to indeed expressed in tiie act, that
the grants of the civil list are without ac^
count, by which I have hitherto undfiH
stood only that the sum total is exempN
from account ; not that the ministerB hav^
a right to employ the civil list to soch
pniposes as they shall thmk mo^ cood^
dve to their private views. ForifitahouW
be granted, not only that the natioo hai
no right to know how tiie whole u expeod^
ed, which to the utmost that can be al^
lowed, or to direct the appHeation of aoj
part of to, nOiidi^ to ^mj diipatsble^ 7^
on the bill to indemnifij Evidence.
A. D. 174fi.
[690
t certainly has a claim to direct in what
nanner it shall not be applied, and to
)rovide that boroughs are not corrupted
andcr pretence of promoting the dignity
of the croini*
Th6 corruption of boroughs, my lords,
is one of the greatest crimes of wluch any
nan under our constitution is capable;
it is to corrupt ac once the fountain and
the stream of government, to poison the
irfiole nation at once, and to make the
people wicked, that they may infect the
House of Commons with wicked repre-
sentatifes.
Such, my lords, arie^the crimes, the sus-
picion of whidi incited the Commons to
s public enquinr, in which they have been
me to proceed so fkr, as to prove that
the public discontent was not without
ouse, and that sudi arts had bee» prac-
tised, 88 it is absohitoly necessary to the
public security, to detect and punish.
They therefore pursued their examina-
tion with a degree of ardour proportioned
to the importance of the danger in which
cvenr man is involved by the violaticHi of
tbe randamenti# laws of the constitution ;
but they found themselves obstructed by
tiie subtllty of some who confessed only
that the^ were guilty, and detennined
to be fiuthful to their accomplices and
themtelfeB.
A farther enquiry, my lords, was, by
this unforeseen evasion, made impossible ;
tbe ultimate and principal agent is shelter-
ed from the law by his guard of merce-
pviei, wretches wno are contented to be
li&nioiu, if they can continue to be rich,
ttd valae themselves on their adherence
to their master, while tliey are conspiring
to ruin their country.
, The nation, my lords, in the mean time,
jstly applies for redress to the power of
tfe legislature, and to its wisdom for me-
tWa of procuring it by law. The Com-
loopa hare compfied with their importu-
uies, and propose to your lordships the
|m11 before you, a Bill for making a pub-
lic enquiry .possiUe, and for bringing a
DBniater within reach of the law.
On this occasion, my lords, we are up-
braided with our own declarations, that
tbe nerson mentioned in this Bill would
fucuy find acctisers, when he should be
wrested of bis authority. Behold him
'^y say his advodates, reduced from his
envied emmence, and placed on a level
jnth his fdbw-subjectsi behold him no
fr' ** di«trtbuter of employments, or
"^diAurser of the public treasure; see
[VOL XII.]
him divested of all security, but that of
innocence, and yet no accusations are
produced !
This, my lords, is a topic so fruitful of
pane^ric, and so happily adapted to the
imagination of a person long used to cele-
brate the wisdom and integrity of minis-
ters, that, were not the present c|uestion of
too great importance .to admit of false
concessions, I should sufer it %o remain
without controversy.
But, my lords, this is Ho time for cri-
minal indulgence, and therefore I shall
annihilate this short-lived triumph by ob-
serving, that to be out of place, is not ne-
cessaiSy to be out of power ; a minister
may retain his influence, who has resigned
his employment ; he may still retain the
favour of his prince, and possess him with
a false opinion, that he can only secure
his authority by protecting him ; or, what
there is equal reason to suspect, his suc-
cessors may be afraid of concurring in a
law which may hereafter be revived against
themselves.
It may be urged farther, my lords, that
he cannot with great propriety be said to
have no power, who sees the legislature
crowded with men that are indebted to
his favour for their rank and their fortunes.
Such a man may bid defiance to enquiry^
with confidence produced by security
yeiy diffisrent from that of innocence ; ho
may depend upon the secrecy of those
whom lie has perhaps chosen for no other
virtue ; he may know that common danger
will unite them to him, and that they caa-
not abandon him without exposing them-'
selves to the same censures.
These securities, my lords, the fortifica-
tions of the last retreat of wickedness, re«
main now to be broken, and the nation
expects its fate from our determinations,
which will either secure the liberties of
our posterity from violation, by showing
that no de^ee of power can shelter those
who shall invade them, or that our consti-
tution is arrived at this period, and that all
struggles for its continuance will be vain.
L«t us not, my lords, combine with the
public enemies, let us not give the nation
reason to believe that this House is infect-
ed with the contagion of venality, that our
honour is become |m empty name, and
that the examples of our ancestors have
no other effisct upon us than to raise the
price of perfidy, and enable us to sell our
country at a higher rate.
Let us remember, my lords, that power
is supported by opinioDi and that toe re»
[« Y]
091]
15 GEORGE IL
BetatemOeLor^
[•
Terence of the public canooi be preaei^ed
but by ri^d justice aud active benefioencei
For this reason, I am far from granting
that we ought yo be cautious of aiarging
those with crimes who have the honour 3l
a jeat amongst us. In my opinipn, my
lords, we ought to be watcmhl against the
least suspicion of wickedness in our own
bodv, we ought to eject poUutiop from our
widls, and preserve that power for whidh
some appear so anxious, by k^epiog our
reputation pure and.untaii^ted*
it is therefore to little puipoee objected^
that there is no Ofrpus debdis fi>r even
though it were true, yet while there is a
carpu* tuspicumiif dien enquiry ought to
bf made for our own honour, nor can
either law or reason be pleaded agaiust it
I catuiot therefbre doubt, that your
lords)3ips will endeavour to do justice;
tbat you will ftcilitate the production of
oral evidence, lest aU written proob should
fa^destroved; th«t you will not despise
tbe united petition of the whole people» of
which I dread the consequence; nor re-
ject the only es^pedient ay wlUch their
fears may be dissipated, ana their happi-
ness secured.
Lord Chancellor Hardwicke :
My lords; after havmg, with an
iatentioQ uqinterrupted by^ any foreign
considerations, and a mind intent only On
the discoverjr of truths examined every
arffument wmch has been mged on either
siae, I think it my duty to dechure, that I
have yet discovered no reason^ which, m
my opinion, ought to prevail ujfon ua to
ratify the Bill that is now before us.
The noble lords who have defended it,
appear to reason more upon maxims of
ffiikj, thai^ rules of kw, or principles of
justice; and seem to imagine, that if they
can prove it to be expedient, it is not ne-
cessary to show that it is eauitahle.
How &r, my lords, they nave succeeded
in that argument which they have most
laboured, I think it not necessary to exa-
mine, because I have hitherto accounted
It an incontestable maxim, that whenever
iliterest and virtue are in competition, vir-
tue is always to be preferrf>d.
The noble lord who spoke first in this
debate has proved the unreasonableness
and illegality of the methods proposed in
t^ Bill, beyoud the possibility of confu-
t^p9i) ; he has shown that they are incon-
sistent with the law» and that the law is
%J»48d upon reason ; he has proved, that
' 4^. 90 #uppgw a criniinal previoifs to
fhe crime, summons tfaf m^a ta a tnd,
and then enquires for what ^fE^nca. ^
Nor has he, my lofds, confine4 Umidf
to a detection of tb^ original defieot, ths
uncertainty of any crime committed, Vut
has proceeded to prove, tha( upon vhsu
ever supposition we proceed* the Bill ii
unequitable, and of no other tendencj
than to multiply grievances, and eUaUish
a precedent of oppression.
For this purpose he has shown, tbst no
evidence can be pfocured by this Bill, be-
cause hII those wno shall, won the encoa*
ragement proposed in it, omr iniqnDStioOi
must be considered as hiisd intaesies, to
whom no credit can be givcap^ and who
therefore ought not to be h^erd.
His lordship alao proyed, that wecaaaot
psas this BiU witiymt diminidMiig our right,
bestowing new pqnren upon the Hem tf
C<Knmon9» 00Q&i|iiii^ spioe qf their cIsiM
which sure mqs^ dutvoiiB, nji^» by €aM^
quencet ifjtbc«il noUting tliei ooiii^it«|i«i.
To all these argo^^wUg ivgiipean
dmwn bom the most iaaportanl <W(wdff»
tions^ teforced by the strongest reatmiiVi
and explained with tlie utmastMrspipai^t
what has been replied? How. mr^w^y^'
h^ assertions htm invalid^ed* er aaj of
his reasons eluded? How has it beet
shown that there is any fiNmdait¥>a ftri
criminal charge, that witneasea thiM^prs-
cuied ought to be hefyni^ w that our mts
would not be made disputabkl^ coaaroir
ing the prpoee4iiig9 of the Hquaeof Csih
mons2
It has been anmenad by a iwUe kml
that though theiBe is not c(frm «AA
Aere i$ corpus suspictoms. WM>W^
the force of tit^is aigumen^ I caw^oiav*
because I am not ashaini^ tq owHi tbst 1
do not understand the me^mng. of the
words. I very well uDdf^nBtand wbst ii
meant by corpus tbsUcHf aod .ao. does everj.
other lord; it is untversally. kpewa to
mean the < body of an oSenoe,;' but w t«
the words cofpus suspidonis^ I d^^not ooift-
prebend what they mean : it is an esprat*
sion indeed which I never before hiesri
and can s^fy,' in my imprehcaisieOt a^
thing more than the * body of a stmiam'!
the substance of somethiug which >! itfldf
nothing.
Such, my lords, is the principle of tbit
Bill, by the confession of its warmett sod
ablest advocates ; it is a BiD for. smquoos*
in^ a person to a trialt agginst whom no
cnine is alleged^ and i^ainst whom ao
witness will appear wjtbottt a briber
top tim thwi 1^ ahouUi *pfm ia
Mil^BAfo hMmn^ Exiienee.
jL D. mi
[6M
693]
eoikib|tfltlto 'tf Ai» Bai to <iflbr their
will iDf^ need 1H> ^rOdf t6 thdte who
oonaiito, tlKat bribin 8i« ii6t codfined to
mx^f ami tltait frf^tyitiim wb« frdtaaotes
liii d#to tttl»reft bt hk deposition^ is swear-
iiiff iiol Ar thiUk tod jiMco, but (br
!!■■■■■ alf
It itaaj^ be urged, ttid it ill, in mjr
^oti,aa dtti the moit fhdtfid imaftim
can suggest in ftvour pf this iftul, thet
Ibey ift« ikot ^qiiir*d to ieeusfe the earl
of OMitd, but to give \A thdr evidence
eoootmng his coAdiict^ whether in his
flifoar 0^ against hdto*
Bat thife argument, my tords, however
ipeeiditt it ttiajr ston, im Ttoifth ttfitselft
tf the Bill be dilisently 6dnsiderM, whidi
is only to e<tofer indenmity on those, who
in the eo^irse of theii* MMtitt nYaSl dft-
corer any of their own, cHine^; on.those
whose testimony tStMl tend to ^x some
riiaig^ of Wiekednesci on die eari of Or-
find ; fdr it canttot eteOv be inU^ned
how thoie Who appear m his favour,
shoidd be under k necessit jr of revealhig
iflyactioos that require an indemnity.
Thus, my lords, 'it mears that the Bill
can prodtiee ho other enect thto that of
ttnltiplying aceusatiotts, Since it oflers
rhrardi only to thdse who are supposed
to have engi^^ fai uiijustifiable practices,
and to procure witnesses by this niethod,
b equaUT unjust as to propose a public
prize to be obtained by swearing ipUiH
aav of tour lordships.
If witnesses arto to be ))Urchased, we
aariit at leapt to oiler an e^uiil price cfn
sAdi aiOei that though thev m^ry be m-
daced by the reward to om their depo-
Mttoni, they nifty hot t^ tempted to accute
mther thah XJb justify.
Should any priTftte man, m^ lords, oiRr
ft re#ard to any that #ould give evidence
against smother, without Specifying the
crime of WhidK he is accciied, doubtlesi^
iMi wddM MJ cdtiftideM by th^ laws 6f
ihilitittion,iis a violator of (He rights Of ,
Md^, an op^ ilande^er, ^ndadratuiber distresses, however urgent, w F^«*.
rfmtoUfld; and would rmrtediatdy, by tions, however fla«ran^ have hitherto pro-
Ifl indifcWiintoritffohnAUon, be obliged duc0d. It ou|ht to be oroved, tin*
to niale satiJfiiction to the commoniiy wicltedrieas bald difcovered some
whiehKehadoftnded, or to the persod abelter iWMn justice, before new enguM
whoih M hiid «yjto«. , |*ri mvented to force it fram «» wj«^
Ithdi, i«y kird^i I own, ,be^' assertid f and new powers applied to dr^ it out l#
by the noble dWfe. that flie public ha^ pajtijhtoeof- • , . «.i«^ ^
• right to every man's evidence, a ipaxini The natijm has ^^jlb^ted, i^ i^^
which in ito proper Mnse cannot b^ de- mariy centAn^ has ofty recovered firoaa
m. ^ki^ohbieaij thfe,that fhe the t«^rittg «J5^ ^122^ ^^^
eVetf in^Uvidwal; but it 1^ my lords,
upon such terins im have been eswlished
fiw the geiofenl advantwe of all : on such
terms as the majority of each socie^baa
prescribed. But, m^ lords^ the . minority
of ft sodetT^ which is die true definition
of *the tttiblic,' are eqoidhr obllxed widh
theansaUer number, or with inoividuals»
kb the observation of justice, and cannot
therefore |irescribe to di&rent individuals
aiieTent conditions. They cannot decree
thitt treatm^t to be just with regard to
one which they allow to be cruel with
iwspeet to anMher. The claims of the
pttoMe are founded, first upon right, which
» ittvibriable; and next upon the law,
whieh; th<(ki^.niuUbleinitsownnatttre»
is holvever to be so fltr fixed, as thateveiv
nan niay know his own condition, his
owh properly; and hb own privileges, or
it ceases in eflfect to be Uw, it ceases to
be the tule of government, or the meaiuie
df conduct
In the jir^ent case, my lords, die putt«
lie has not a right to hire evidence, because
the ptiblte has hitherto subsist upon
this condition; dbnbng others, that no mito
shldl swear in his own cause. Hie pub-
lic hiv liot ft right to require firom aay
man that he should betray^ bhnself, be*
cause ever^
is exempted finim
public faith.
Thus, tny lords, the ri|ht of the pub*
lie is only that right whitfi the public his
established by law, and confirmed by cou-
tihual claims ; nor is the daim of the pub«
lie litom individuals to be extended beyond
its known bounds, except m tones Of
general distress, where a few must ne-
cessarily sufier for the preservation ef
the rest*
Thk necessitf ismdeed now urged, b«l
surefy it ought to be shown that the pre-
sent drcumsiances of 'aftdrs difier maa
thole of any former age, before it caa
with any proprie^ be asserted, that iaoa-
sorei are nbw neoetsary, which no other
majr hlead that be
that dEuBind by die
09S]
15 C9EOI16E IL
violence; it has often beniebdaiigeredby
corrupt coonseb, and wicked maebioa-
.tioDBy and surmounted them by the force
of its established laws, without the assist*
ence of temporary expedients; at least
without expedients like this, which neither
.hw nor justice can support, and wfaidi
would in itself be a more atrocious griev-
;ance than those, if they were real, which
:it is intended to punish, andmi^tpro-
'duce far greater evils than those, whidi
are imputed to him against whom it is
projected.
It has indeed, my. lords, been mention-
.ed by a noble lord, in much softer lan-
.guage, as a method only of making an
enquiry possible. The possibility of an
enquiry, my lords, is a verjr remote and
inoQeasive idea^ but names will not change
• the nature of the things to which they
i are applied. The Bill is, in my opinion,
calculated to make a defence impossible,
to deprive innocence of its guard, and to
let loose oppression and perjury upon the
world. It IS a Bill to daszle the wicked
with a prospect of security, and to incite
them to purchase an indemnity for one
crime, by the perpetration of another. It is
a Bill to confound the notions of ri^t and
wrop^, to violate the essenoe of our con-
stitution, and to leave us without any cer-
tain security for bur properties, or nue &r
our actions.
Kor are the particular piirts less defec-
tive than the general foundation ; for it
> is full of ambiguous promises, vague ideas,
and indeternunate expressions, of whidi
some hbve been already particularised b^
the noble lords that have spoken on this
occasion, whose observations I shall not
'jrepeat, nor endeavour. to improve; but
cannot forbear proposing to the advocales
'for the BiU, one sentence; that it may be
explained by them, and that at least we
may not pass what we do not understand.
In the enquiry into the conduct <tf the
carl of Orford, every man, as we have si-
ready seen, is invited to bring his evidence,
and to procure an indemnity, by answer-
ing such questions as shall be asked,
/< touchmgor coneemingthe said enquiry,
or rektive thereto." What is to be un-
derstood by this last sentence, I would
willingly be informed ; 1 would hear how
Aat the retlation to the enquiry is designed
to be extended, with what otner enquiries
«it is to be Qb^ii^cated, and where the
. fhain of interrogatories is to have an end.
When an evideace appears before the
i3fMniitti9e> lioir. cn^ hebeccirtain that
the ^uestioBs aakadt arec^islalirotodie
enquiry ?'^ How can he be oeitaia that
they are such as he noay procurs so in-
denmi^ by resolving? Or whether lihey |
are not uBconneded with the prioctpal .
question, and therefore insidious aad dsa- '
gerous? And to wh|tt power must he ;
appeal, if he should be prosecuted sftor-
wards upon his own confession, od pre*
tence that it was not " relative to the en*
quiry?*'
Expressions likc^faese, my kvds, if th^
are not the effepts of maVcjoos huny^ and
negligent animosity, must be inteaaed.to
vest Uie committee with absolute autho-
rity, with the award of life and death, by
leaving to them the liberty to explain the
statute at their own pleasure, to cootrsct
oreularge the relation to the controversj,
to enquire without bounds, and judge
without controul.
Thus, my lords, I have laid before yoa
my opinion, of this Bill without any par-
tial regard, without exaggerating the ill
consequences that may be feared, from it,
or endeavouring to ^ude anyreasonii^
by which it has been defended. I have
endeavoured to. pursue the argumoits of
the noble lord who spoke first, and to
show that i^ is foundea upon ^ilse notioos
of criminal justice, tliat it projpoees ina-
tional and illegal methods of^ trial, that it
will produce consequences fatal to our
constitution, and establish a precedent of
oppression.,
I have endeavocired, in examining tiip
arguments by which the Bill has been de-
fended,, to. wow that the ri^ts of the
public are ascertamed, and that the power
of the majority is to be limited by moral
considerations ; and to prove, in discuss
ing its particular parts, Uiat it is inaccu-
rate, indeterminate, and unintelliffible.
What e&cts my enquiry may have had
upon your lordships, yourselves only can
tdl; for my part,tne necessity of dwelling
so lone upon the question, has added nev
strengui to my conviction; and so d^j
do I now see the danger and injustice of a
law like this, that though I do not imagine
myself indued with any peculiar degree of
heroism, I believe, that if I were con-
demned to a choice so disagreeable, I
should more willingly sufer by anxh a BiU
passed in my own case, than consent to
pass it in that of another, . |
TbeDnVe afArgyk:
My lords; I .fun not jret able to
.^ifcovec tbat;the;Sill,now:be^ «^i6 |
697]
en Iht Bm to utdemmfy ^mdenee.
A. D. 1741
{"
cither OImI or a)»ttid, thai ittuiteipre-
tation is doubtful, or its probable conae-
i|iienoei daagaroiu.
The mdiipulable ouixiiD, that ^ the
pablic has a right to every man's evi-
deiice»" has been explained away with
jBuch labour, and wiui more art than a
good cause can often require. We have
been told of poblic contracts, of the rights
.of society with regard to individuals,
and the privileges of individuals with
rd^pect to society ; we have had one term
opposed to anoth^, only to amuse our
aneotioD ; and law, reason, and sophistry,
have been mmeled, till common sense was
lost in the confusion*
Bat, ray lords, it is easy to disentangle
jll this perplexity of ideas, and to set
truth free from tlie shackles of sophistry,
by obserfing that it is, in all civilized
nations of the world, one of the first prin*
dples of the constitution ; that the pub-
lic has a right, always reserved, of having
recourse to extraondinai^ methods of pro-
ceeding, when the happiness of the. com-
munity appears not sulnciently secured by
the known laws.
Laws may, bv those who have made the
study and explanation of them, the em-
ployment of their lives, be esteemed as the
great standard of right; they mav be h»-
Situally reverenced, and considered as
sacred in their own nature, without regard
to the end which they are designed to pro-
duce.
But others, my lords, whose minds ope-
rate without any impediment from educa-
tion, will easily discover, that laws are to
be r^arded only for their use ; that the
rer which made them only for the pub-
advantage, ought to after or annul
them, when thev are no longer serviceable,
or when they obstruct those effects whidi
|hey were intended to promote.
1 will therefore, mv iords,still assert, that
the public has a right to every man's evi-
dence; and that to reject any Bill which
can have no other consequence than that
of enabling the nation to assert its claim,
to reconcile one principle of law with ano-
ther, and to deprive villainy of an evasion
which may always be used, is to deny jus-
tice to an oppressed people, and to concur
ia the ruin or our country.
And fiurther, my lords, I confidently af-
firai it has not been proved, that this Bill
cm endanger any but the guilty ; nor has
it been shown tKat it is drawn up for any
other purpose t^an that whicfc the noble
Joid mcDtioned, pf hmdering lyienqiuiy
from beinf impoosiUe; it aia|r themfiw^
justly be required from those who afboli
on this occasion, so mudi tendem^ for
liber^, so many suspicions of remote de«
signs, and so much zeal for our eonstifeia*
tion, to demonstrate, that either an enquiiy
may be carried on bnr other means, or
that an enquiry is itself supeifluoua or hn»
proper.
Though none of those who have spoken
against the Bill have been willing to ex*
pose themselves to universal indignation,
by declaring that they would gladly ob-
struct the progress of the enquiry ; that
they designed to throw a mist over tha
public affiurs, and to conceal from the peo»
pie the causes of their miserv ; and dioiurh
1 have no right to charge those who.di&r
from me in opinion with intentions, which,
as the^r do not avow them, cannot be provi*
ed; this however I' will not fear to ararm,
that those who are for rejecting this me*
thod of enquiry, would consult their h»»
nour by proposing some other equally effi-
cacious ; lest it should be thought by sucfc
as have not any opportunities of knowing
their superiority to temptations, that they
are influenced by some motives which they
are not willing to own, and that they are^
in secret, enemies to the enquiry, though
in public they only condemn the method
of pursuing iu
The Duke of NmneaHle:
My lords; the aiguments which
have been produced in defence of the Bill
before us, however those who offer them
may be influenced by them, have made^
hitherto, very little impression upon me;
my opinion of the improprie^ and Ulega^
litv of this new metnoa of prosecution,
still continues the same ; nor can it be ex-
pected that I should alter it, till those rea^
sons have been answered which have been
offered bv the noble lord who spoke first
in the debate.
The advocates for the Bill seem, m..
deed, conscious of the insufficienor of
their arguments, and have therefore added
motives of anoUier kind ; thev have in^
formed us, that our power subsists upon
our reputation, and that our reputationcan
only be preserved by concurring in the
measures recommended by the Commons ;
they have insinuated to us, that he who ol^
structs this BiU, will be thought derirous
to obstruct the enquiry, to conspire the
ruin of his country, and to act in confie^
deracy with public robbers.
But, my lords, whether tl^e nation \^
mi
15 (»BOB«&IL
eireiy mtAod of ctlumqr «ii4 itpwiact.
Nor was the malice of myeoemief sfHufied
with destroying oiy repttUUkn wkbtoi im-
pairing my fortune: for this purpose a
prosecution was projected, a wretoi was
found out who engaged to accuse. aie^ 'and
received his nardon for ao other purpoae ;
nor did 1 make ao^ opfMsition to il in thii
House, thoMgb I knew the inteat with
which it w:as precured, and was informed
that part of my estate wes allotted him 4e
harden his heart, and stiengthes hisaaser-
tions.
This, my lcrd% is simly m pnacedent
which I h^ve a right to quote, aad whioli
win vinflic^^e me to^our lordshioa from
the imputation of partiality and mMijjiaity;
since it is apparent* that I do en^ in the
case of another, what I willincly auhmittod
to, when ao enquiry wds aaakiEig into ny
cpnduct.
But, my lords, this is&r from being the
only precedent which may be pleaded in
fiivour of this Bill ; a Bill which in reality
concurs with the general and cegukr prac-
tice of the eatab^hed law, as will appear
to every one that con^pares it with the
eig;hth section of the act for preventing
Bribery ; in which it is established aa a
perpetual law. That he who, having taken
a bribe, shall, within twelve mnaihs, in-
&an against him that gave it, shall be re*
oeived as an evidence, and be indemiufied
from all the consequences of his disoov^ry.
To these ai^gumeots of veason and pre-
cedent, I will add one of a more prevalent
kind, drawn from motives of interest, which
surely would direot oi^ ministem to favour
lixe enquiry, and prooMte every expedient
tjiat might produce a complete cUsettStton
of the putnic affiurs; since they would
show, that the^ are not afraid ef the most
rigorous scrutm v, and are above any fears
tnat the preoeoent which they are new
establishing may revolve upon themselves*
To elude the jratifiication of this Bill, it
WBB at first urged that there was no proof
of any prime; and when it was shewn,
that there was an apparent misapplication
of the public money, it became necessary
to determine upon a more hardy asaertiQn<
and to silence malicious retfsoners^ by
showing; them how little their argnments
would 06 regarded. It then was denied,
with a spirit worthy of the cause in which,
it was exerted, that the civil list was public
money.
Disputants like these, my lords, nre net
bom to be eonfuteds it would he to little
P$upese thai my i^ianahfiuU aik^wteAec
not granted by th^ puhlict and whsAer
pobhp ipants did not prodnee paUie
monev ; it would be without w^ dktt^
that the uses for which that oiw^ IS msd^
should be enmnerared, and the miBiyplica>
tion of it openly proved; a distmctaoi^ or
at least n negative, woijdd be ahrajs at
hand, and obstinacy aadintmrest would
tura ar^^ument aside.
Upon what jprinciples, my lov^ we ess
now caH out tor a proof of oriraes, sad
proceed ii^ the deha^ as if no just raaioB
ef suspicion had appeared, lamnotsUs
|o coQJectnre; here is» in aay opinira, if
not demonstrative proo^ yet the stra^gMt
presumption of one of the greatest ciimef
of which any man can he auiIQf— Hhs
propagation of wickedness; of the nuat
atrocious breaqh ef trust which can bs
chaiged vsm % British miniater^-a deli«
berate tramc fi;>r the liberties ef bii
country.
Of these enenaous villainies, however
difficult it may now sfem to disengage him
from thfiBi, 1 hepe we shall see ressoa to
acquit him at the bar of this House, at
which, if he be innocent, he oo^t to be
desirous of smearing ; nor do hai firiendi
consult his honour, b^ endeavouring to
withheld him from it; if they, indeed, be*
lieve him guiltv, th^ may then easily jus-
tifv their conduct to him, hot th^ world
will, perhaps, require a more public vi&di-
cation.
Theses my lordi^ are the aigumeoti
which have mfluenced me hitherto to ap-
prove the Bill now be&re ua» and which
will continue their prevalence, till I sbaU
hear them confuted; and if they are sol
altogether uoaeswerabde, they are suaeiy
of so much importance, that the Bill £v
which they haye been produoed, mustbe-
allowed todeserve at kast a deliberate ex-
aminatioi^ and may very justly be referred
to a committee, in which amhigaitiei
may be removed, and inadvertencies coTf
reOed.
Lord Cbolmondeley :
Mylords; thia B&U is in nyr <yiaMi0
so far from deserving apnvebation, that I
am in doubt whether I sboidd retav«l ^
determinatioa ^ the Hooa^ by Ib^§
befbre you the vqanonn which jefltiaeoa ve
in this 4ebatei nor indeed ceuld ipfew
vyoni^ytelf to e»iLer into ^(wo^^mms
sieo*of a queslaen, on which I sbosiU Iw
imagined thsft eU mankieid weutd have
"3
ON Ae Batio-mdeamify S/mime.
A. D, Utf.:
£«!
'Che ihiSliei of liioM iu4il« liiidsivh0
lYe spoken ia defence of die BiU| iodiae
e» even i^gainit thecoawtion of my own
9ttODy to sMpect that awnBenUmay be
Ssred in iti nivour» whtca I heve not yet
eeo able to discover; and tbat those
hich have been produoed« however ia-
cmdusiTe they have seemed, will operate
nore powefuliT when they are more fuUy
isplayedy and better understood.
For this reason I shall lay before your
vdships the objections whico arose in my
lind wtien the Bill was first laid before us,
nd which have rather been strengthened
ban invalida^d by the subsequent debate.
It appears, my lords, evident to me,
hat every man hf» a right to be tried by ihe
nown laws of his country ; that no man
ao be justly punished by a law made
fler the comaussion of a fact, because he
tien suftrs by a law, agfuast which he
leTer transgressed; nor is any man to be,
iroiecuted by methods invented only to
idlitate his condemnation, because he
nght to be acquitted, however guilty he
Day be supposed, whom the established
ules of justice cannpt convict. The law,
nj lords, is the measure of political, as
conscience of moral right ; and he that
creaks no law, may indeed be criminal,
MUis not punishable. The law likewise
vesaflies the method of prosecuting guilt ;
u>d as we^ by omitting any crime in our
WHS disable ourselves from punishing it,
lovever public or flagrant, so by rcgulat-
ag the process in our courts of iustice,
re give security to that guilt, which by
tbt proc^ess cannot be detected.
The truth of this assertion, my lords,
kov^ver paradoxical it omy permips ap*
pear, will become evident, if we supfHwe a
aao brought to the bar, whose guilt was
ttiquestio^le, though it could not be
kgaDy proved, because all those were dead
vbo might have appeared ^^ainst him. It
« certsin that his good fortune would give
^ no ciatm to pardon, and yet h^ could
iM)t be convicted, unless we suppose him
weak enough to accuse himselit In this
ctte) my lords, it is not impoteible, that
Mae might be prompted by their zeal to
Fopose, that the foreign methods of juv
^e might be introduced, and the rack
nploy^ to extort from kiis own rao^ a
(M^^naion of those crisaes of t^which every
^ b^eved him guih^.
With what horror, my lords, such a pro-
Cd would be heand, how loi^y it would
ctDsured, ttid how universally rcjecled,
locednotsay; but must observe, that» an
aogr ^ipiidoa, tiie deteatatite would arise
principally from a sense of the injustice of
exposmjj^ an^ man to peculiar hardshipsf
and distmguishine him to his disadvantaga
from the rest of we communis*
It will, my lords, not be esay to prote^
tha^ it is less agreeable to justice to oblige
a roan to accuse himselff than lo make ubo
of extraoidinary methods of procuring
evidence against him; because the barriem
of security which the law has fixed are
equally brokcjn in either ease, and the
accused is exposed to dangers, from wbidi
he had reasmi to believe himself sheltered
by the constitution of his country.
^ This ar^ment, my lords, I have nien4
tioned, without endeavouring to evince
the innoQence of the person whoa this
Bill immediately regards; because the
intent of it is to show, that no man is to
be deprived of the common beaiefits of tte
constitution, and that the guiltv have a
riffht to all the advantage whida the hiwi
allows them. For guilt is never to be sup^
posed till it is proved, and it is therefore
never to be proved by new methods,
merely bocause it is supposed*
That the method of procuring evidence
now proposed is new, my lords, I think it
no temerity to conclude; because Ait
noble lords who have endeavoured to de*
fend it, have produced no instance of e
parallel practice, and their knowledge and
acuteness is such, that they can only have
&iled to discover them, because they aw
indeed no where to be found.
In the case of bribery, my lords, the
person accus^ has the privilege; if be be
wnecent, of prosecuting his accuser for
P^fiW7f and is therefore in less dapg^r of
Deis^ harassed by a false indictaenu
But, ray lords, this is not the only diffi»^'
rence between the two cases; for he thai
discovers a bribe received by himself, hae
ao a^otives of interest to prooipt bis evi*.
dence ; he is only securea from sufiering
by his own discovery, and might haTe
been equally safe by silence and secreey i
since the law supposes the crime out of
the reach of detection, otherwise than by
the confossion of the criminal.
But fiw difiereat, my lords, are the cir-
cuBMtanees of those who are now invitcdt
to throM the courts <^ justice, and stun'
us with ^^MMitiona and discoveries. Tbegr-
are men supposed eriminal by the indeBi»
nity which is ofiered them; and by the
nature oftheireriaaesiit is madeat leaiti
prolmble, that Ihey are ie daflir haaard of
diaoeaarf, end puniahaenli mm
$B9]
IB ISfiORG? IL
tfiey tre lammoned to teC theoMelvei fi^
flor ever, by tccuiinff a man of whom it has
Bot been yet proved that he can legally be
ealled to a trial.
Thus, my lordt, in the law which the
]M)ble cKike has mentioned as a precedent
ftnr this Bill, the accuser is only placed in
a kind of e^piilibrium, Equally secure from
ponishment, by silence or by information^
m hope that the love of truth and justice
will turn the balance; in the Bill now be-
fore us the witness is in continual danger
S withholding his evidence, and is restor*
to peHect safety by becoming an ac-
cuser, and from making discoveries, whe-
ther true or false, has every thing to hope
and nothing to fear.
• The necessity of punishing wickedness
has been urged with great strength ; it has
been unanswerably shown, b^ the advo-
cates for thw Bill, that vindictive justice is
• 0f the highest importance to the happiness
«f the pnbhc, and that those who may be
injured with impunity, are in reality denied
the benefits of society, and can be said to
live in the state of uncivilized nature, in
which the strong must prey upon the
weak.
Thb, my lords, has been urged with all
the appearance of conviction and sincerity,
and jet has been urged by those who are
providing a shelter for the most enormous
tillainies, and enabling men who have
violated every precept of law and virtue,
to bid defiance to justice, and to sit at
ease in the enjoyment of their acquisi-
tions*
And what, my lords, is the condition,
dpon which wickedness is to be set firee
from terror, upon which national justice is
10 be disarmed, and the betrayers of pub-
lic counsels, or the plunderers of public
treasure, qualified for new trusts, and set
•n a level with untainted fidelity ? A con-
dition, my lords, which wretches like these
will very readily Bccepty the easy terms of
information and of perjury. They are re-
quired only to give evidence against a man
narked out for destruction, and the ffuilt
of partaking in his crimes is to be eflSced
by the merit of concurring in his ruin.
It has indeed been a method of detec-
tion, frequently employed against house-
breakers and highwaymen, to proclaim a
pardon for him that shall convict his ac-
complices ; but surely, my lords, this
rttice will not in the present question
mentioned as a precedent Surely it
will not be Uiought equitable to level with
Ww% and with thievesi a person distib-
' Beiaie ifiihe Loiris • (6U
guished by his rank, his employments, his
abilities, and his services ; a person, whose
loyalty to his sovereign has never been
called in question, and whose fidelity to his
country has at least never been ^rored.
These are measures, my lords, which I
hope your lordships will never concur to
promote; measures not supported either
oy law or justice, or enmrced by any
exi^nce of affiurs, but dictated by perse-
cution, malice, and reven^ ; measures by
which the gtiilty and the innocent may be
destroyed with equal facility, andwhicb
must therefore tend to encourage wicked-
ness as they destroy the security of virtue.
The Earl of C^^e7;/SeU ?*
My lords ; I have so long honoured
the abilities, and so often concurred vrisk
the opinion of the noble lord who began
the debate, that I cannot without miusual
concern, rise up now to speak in oppodtioo
to him ; nor could any other * principle
support me under the apparent aisadvan-
ta^ of a contest so unequal, but the con-
sciousness of upright intentions, and the
concurrence of the whole nation.
I cannot but consider myself on this oc'
casion, my lords, as the advocate of the
people of Great Britain, who, after con-
tinued oppressions, losses, and indi^itieS}
after having been plundered and ridiculedi
harassed and insulted for complaininf,
hiive at length flattered themselves that
they should have an opportunity of appeal-
ing to our bar for justice, and of securing
themselves firom future injuries, by the
punishment of those that had so long
triumphed in their guilt, proclaimed their
defiance of justice, and declared that the
laws were made only for their security.
The expectations Of the people have
been frustrated by the unexpected obsti-
nacy of the agents of wickedness, by a plea
that was never made use of for the same
Eurpose before, against which the known
iws of the nation have provided no re-
medy, and which your lordships are there-
fore now called upon to overtnrow.
That the nation caUs loudly for an en-
quiry, that die misapplication of the pub-
lic treasure is unWersally suspected, and
that the person mentioned in the Bili is
believed to be the chief author of that
misapplication; that at least those v^o
have squandered it have acted by bis au-
« In the CoMectinn of Dr. Johnsos'sDebalw,
this Speech is erroaeeusly attribiled t» U^
»]
on the KB Windemf^fy Emdenet.
A. D. 11¥U
[««
tority, and been admitted to tnut by bit
Kommendadoiiy and that he is therefore
ccountable to the public for their con*
net, I shall suf^ose cannot be denied.
The nation, my lords, has a right to be
ratified in their demands of an enquny,
rhsterer be the foundation of their suspi-
ioDs; since it is manifest that it can pro-
lace DO other effects than those of giving
iew lustre to innocence, and quieting the
blnours of the people, if it should be
bund that the government has been ad-
oinbtaed with honesty and ability ; and
t Is not less evident that, if the general
)piiuon is well grounded, if our interest
las been betray^, and that money em-
ilo^edonly.to corrupt the nation which
fas raised for the defence of it; the se-
rerest punishment ou^t to be inflicted,
kt all future ministers may be deterred
Tom the same crimes by exeibplary ven-
[eance.
Thus, my lords, an enquiry appears
upon eveiy supposition useful and neces-
Biy ; but I catinot comprehend how it can
be prosecuted by any other method, than
that of proposine an indemnity to those
vfao shall make discoveries.
Efery wicked measure, my lords, must
iaToWe in guilt all who are engaged in it ;
iad how easily it may be concealed from
every other penon may be shown by an
example of a crime, which no man will
|ieDv to have sometimes existed, and which
in the opinion of most is not very uncom-
mon in this age.
It will be i£owed, at least, that on some
iicoBsioDs, when a &vourite begins to tot-
ter, when, strong objections are raised
3^t the continuance of a standing
vmy, when a convention requires the ra-
Ji^on oftheledslature, or some fiital
Mdresi is proposed to be presented to the
povD, a pecuniary reward may sometimes
w offered, and though that, indeed, be a
Opposition more difficult to be admitted,
•omethnes, however rarely, accepted.
Iq this case, my lords, none but he that
gives and he that receives the bribe can
beconsdoosofit; at most we can only
^ppose an intervening asent to have any
oowletTge of it; and if even he is ad-
BQ^ to the secret so as to be able to
Jwc a legal discovery, there must be some
^fect of cunning in the principals. Let
^ consider from which of these any dis-
^ery can be probably expected, or what
|««on can be alleged, for which- either
«««ld exDose himself to punishment for
ue lake of TUining hia associate!.
It is, therefore, my lords, plain froaa
this instance, that without the confesaioB
of some guilty person, no discovery can
be made of those crimes which are mosi
detrimental to our haj^iness, and most
dangerous to our liberties. It is apparent
that no man will discover his own guilt,
while there remains any danger of suffer-
ing by his confession ; it is certain that
such crimes will be committed, if they ar«
not discouraged by the &ar of punish*-
ment, and it cannot therefore be denied
that a proclamation c^ indemnity is ne-
cessary to their detection.
This, my lords, is not, as it has been
alleged, a method unknown to our con-
stitution, as every man that reads thA
common papers will easily discover. I
doubt if there has been for many years t
single month in which aome reward, as
w^ as indemnity, has not been promised
to any man, who, havmg been engaged in
a r^ery, would discover his oonfedmites;
and surely a method that is daily prao-
tised for the security of private pr(merty»
may be very rationally and justly adopted
by the legislature for the preservation of
the happiness and the property of tfa#
public*
The punishment of wickedness, my
lords, is undoubtedly one of the essenti|d
parts of good government, and in resli^
the chief purpose for whidi society is in-
stituted ; for now wOl that society m which
any individual may be plundered, enslaved,
and murdered without .redress and without
punishment, differ from the state of cor*
nipt nature, hi whidi the strongest must
be absolute, and right and power always
the same?
That constitution, therefore, which has
not provided for the punishment, and pr»>
viously for the discovery of guil^ is so fiir
in a state of imperfection, and requires ta
be strengthenea by new provisions. Thisy
my lords, is fiir from bemg our state, for
we have in our. hands a- method of detect-
ing the most powerfrd criminals, a method
in Itself agreeable to reason, recommended
by the practice of our predecessors, and
now approved once more by the sanction
of one of the branches of the l^islatura.
The objectiona which have on this oc^
casion beei made against it, are such asna
law can' escape, and which therefore can
have no weignt; and it is no small con- .
firmation |of the expediency of it, that th^y^
by whom it has been opposed, have nol
been abte to attack it with stronger vaaaoitti
from wUchi if wt oonsider. their iibililii^
wn
15 GBOttQB IL
AcMlf vw Mf LMftn
\m
we «htD be c«wrt&oedy Uun nelUngbaft se*
cured it bul tile power of tnith.
It to enouired by the noble lord, how
we shall distingum true from fttoe evi«>
tfeiite; to which it xokj he very readily
enswered, that we shall dittingiiith them
by the aeme ineenB as on anv other occa-
eioD, by conpariog the allegations, and
GODsideting how every witness agrees widi
ethers and with himielf, how far his asser-
tions are in themselves probable, how
tiiey are confirmed or weakened by known
eircanstanoes, and how far they are inva-
lidated by the contrary evidence.
We shaR, my lords, if we add our sanc-
tiott to this Bid, discover when any man's
aecusatien to prompted bjr hto interest, as
we maAx know whether it was dictated by
htomdioe.
U has been asked also, how any man
can ascertam hto claim to the indemnity?
Towhich it may be easily refilied, that by
giving hto evidence he aoquires a right,
-Sn that evidence shall be proved to be
The noble lord who spoke some time
ago, and whose abilities and qualities are
wch, that 1 cannot but eateem and admire
him, even when conviction obliges me to
oppose him, hss proposed a case in which
he seems to imagine that a murderer might
secure himself from punishment, by con-
necting hto crime witn some transaction in
which the earl of Orford should be in-
terested. Thto case, my lords, is suffi-
cientiy improbaMe, nor is it easy to men-
tion any method of trial in which some
Inoonvenienoe may not be produced, in
the indefinite complications of circum-
stances, and unforeseen relations of events.
It toknown to have happened once,and can-
not be known not to nave happened often,
tlMt a person accused of murder, was
tried by a jury of which the real murderer
was one. Wul not thto, then, be an argu-
ment affainst the great privile^ of the na-
tives of thto kingdom— « trial by their
equals f
But, my lords, I am of opinion that the
nurderer would not be indemnified by
thto Bill, since he did not commit the
crhae by the direction of the person whom
he to supposed to accuse; nor would it
imve any necessary connection witii hto
oottduct, but might be suppressed in tiie
neeusation, without any diminution of the
Ibfoe of the evidence. A man will not
be eoibred to mtioduce hto aoousation
Willi an acoouni of all dm villantos of hto
wiii^lift»butw<a beitfoMdloeoBflne
htoSBStimotiytothK afiumpon irUdi ht
toexansined.
The committee, my lords, will &
tinguish between the crimes pemetntei
by thedirectioci of the earl of Orford, and
those of another kind. And thoold in
enermeos criminal give such evidenoe, ai
the noble lord was pleased to suppoe,
he may be indemnified for tiie bribery,
but will be hanged for the murder, dou
withstanding any thing in thto Bill to tlie
contrary.
It has been insisted on by the noUe
lords, who have spoke against the BIB,
that no dime to proved, and therefore
there to no foundation for it But, mj
lords, I have always tiiooght that the pn*
fiision of tiie public money waBacrme,
and there to evidently a very Isige am
expended, of whtdi no account hat bees
gtren ; and what more nearly rehrei U
Uie present question, of whidi no scoouot
has ever been demanded.
On thto oocaaion, my lords, an snerttoi
has been aliiqged, which no penoni) r^
gard shall ever prevail upon me to besr
witiiout disputing it, 8ii}ce I think it s
of the most dangerous tendency, and no-
supported by reason or by law. It b al-
leged, my lords, that the civfl Ust is not to
be considered as public money, and that
tiie nation has therefore no dsim to en-
quire how it is distributed ; that it is gim
to support the dignity of the crown, txA
that only hto majesty can ask the re»A
of any milures in the accounts of it
I mive on die contrary, my lords, hitber-
to understood, that all was pubUciaoDej
which was p;iven by the pubbc. 1^^
sent condition of the crown to very diib-
ent firom that of our ancient monarchy
who supported their dignity by th&r ovb
estates. I admit, my lords, that th^
might at pleasure contract or enlsr^ their
expences, mortgage or idienate their Ism)^
or bestow presents and pensions, wfthoot
controul.
It to indeed expressed in die act, that
the grants of the civil list are without ac-
count, by which I have hitherto unde^
stood only that the sum total is exempt
from account ; not that the ministen have
a right to employ the civil list to soch
poiposes as they shall think most condoj
cive to their private views. For if it ihouia
be granted, not only tiiat the ^<'°^
no right to know how the whole is expend-
ed, which to the utmost tiiat can be al-
lowed, or to direct the appHcstioo of ^
part of it, whidi^ to ymj diipatsbto^ r
on the bill io indemnifi/ Svidence*
A. D, 17«.
[690
it certaioty has a claim to direct in what
manner it shall not be applied, and to
provide that boroughs are not corrupted
under pretence of promoting the dignity
ofthecrovra.
The corruption of boroughs, my lords,
is one of the greatest crimes of wWch any
nan ander our constitution is capable;
it is to corrupt at once the fountain and
the stream of government, to poison the
vrhole nation at once, and to make the
people wicked, that they may infect the
House of Commons with wicked repre-
KDtatiTes.
Sudi, my lords, ari& the crimes, the sus-
picion of which incited the Commons to
a public enquiry, in which they have been
me to proceed ao far, as to prove that
the public discontent was not without
cause, and that such arts had been- prac-
tised, as it is abeohitely necessary to the
public flecurity, to detect and punish.
Thcj therefore pursued their examina-
^ with a degree of ardour proportioned •
to tbe importance of the danger in which
every man is involved by the violaticHi of
tbe randameDti# laws of the constitution ;
but tbey found themselves obstructed by
the subtilty of some who confessed only
tbat the^ were guilty, and detennined
to be fiuthfiil to their accomplices and
themietves.
A (vther enquiry, my lords, was, by
tbis unforeseen evasion, made impossible ;
tbe ultimate and principal agent Is shelter-
ed from the law bv his guard of merce-
Mries, wretches MO are contented to be
ttfiuoous, if they can continue to be rich,
and value themselves on their adherence
to their master, while they are conspiring
to niia their country.
The nation, my lords, in the mean time,
justly applies for redress to the power of
tbe legidature, and to its wisdom for me-
thods of procurinff it by law. The Com-
inons have compued with their iroportu-
B^iss, and propose to your lordships the
KU before you, a Bill for making a pub-
lic enquuy .ponible, and for bringing a
loinister witlun readi of the law.
On this occasion, ray lords, we are up-
hvaided with our own declarations, that
tbe oerson mentioned in this Bill would
fuckly find accusers, when he should be
oivested of his authority. Behold him
Aow, tay his advocates, reduced from his
^vied eminence, and placed on a level
with his feilow-subjects I behold him no
longer the distributer of employments, or
tbediibuiser of the public treasure; see
IV0L.XIL1
him divested of all security, but that of
innocence, and yet no accusations are
produced!
This, my lords, is a topic so fruitful of
pane^ric, and so happuy adapted to th«
imagmation of a person long used to cele-
brate the wisdom and integrity of minis-
ters, that, were not the present c|uestion of
too great importance .to admit of false
concessions, I should suffer it to remain
without controversy.
But, my lords, this is Ho time for cri-
minal indulgence, and therefore I shall
annihilate this short-lived triumph by ob-
serving, that to be out of place, is not ne-
cessarily to be out of power ; a minister
may retain his influence, who has resigned
his employment ; he may still retain the
favour of his prince, and possess him with
a false opinion, that he can only secure
his authority by protecting him ; or, what
there is equal reason to suspect, his suc-
cessors may be afraid of concurring in a
law which may hereafter be revived against
theniselves.
It may be urged farther, my lords, that
he cannot with great propriety be said to
have no power, who sees the legislature
crowded with men that are indebted to
his favour for their rank and their fortunes.
Such a man may bid defiance to. enquiry,
with confidence produced by security
yery diffisrent from that of innocence ; ho
may depend upon the secrecy of tJiose
whom h^ has perhaps chosen for no other
virtue ; he may know that common danger
will unite them to him, and that they can-
not abandon him without exposing them-'
selves to the same censures.
These securities, my lords, the fortifica-
tions of the last retreat of wickedness, re«
main now to be broken, and the nation
expects its fate from our determinations,
which will either secure the liberties of
our posterity frora violation, by showing
that no d^ee of power can shelter those
who shall invade tnem, or that our consti-
tution is arrived at this period, and that all
struggles for its continuance will be vain.
Let us not, my lords, combine with the
public enemies, let us not give the nation
reason to believe that this House is infect-
ed with die contagion of venality, that our
honour is becorae |m empty name, and
that the examples of our ancestors have
no other effisct upon us than to raise the
price of perfidy, and enable us to sell our
country at a higher rate.
Let us remember, my lords, that power
is supported by opinioni and Uiat toe re*
091]
15 GEORGE IL
BetattrntkeLarOt
[I
Terence of the public cannot be pmerv^
but by ri^d justice and active beneficence.
For this reason, I am far from grantmg
that we ought (o be cautious of diarging
those with crimes who have the honour S
a jeat amongst us. In my opinipn, my
lords, we ought to be watcmiil against the
least suspicion of wickedness in our own
bodv, we ought to eject poUutiop from our
walls^ and preserve that power for whidh
some aj^pear so anxious,^ by k^q^iqg our
reputation pure and.untaii)ted»
it is therefore to little puipose objected^
that there is no anpus debctii for even
though it were true, yet while there is a
corpus suspkumiit dien enquiry ought to
be made for our own honour, nor can
e^er law or reason be pl^ided against it.
I cannot therefore aoubt, that your
lordsjbups will endeavour to do jusitice;
that, you will focilitate the producticm of
oral evidence, lest all written proob should
bt d^troved; thut vou will not despise
the united petition of the whole people, of
which I dread the consequence; nor re-
j^t the only es^edient oy nUdk their
fears may be dissipated, and their happi-
ness secured.
Lord Chancellor Hardwicke :
My lords; after havmg, with an
intention uninterrupted by^ any foreign
considerations, and a mind intent only On
the discoverjr of truth, examined every
arffument which has been uiged on either
siae, I thwJL it my duty to declare, Aat I.
have yet discovered no reasQn, which, in
my opjnion, ousht to pievaU upon ua to
ratify the Bill wtX is now before us.
The noble lords who have defended it,
appear to reason more upon maxims of
policy, than rules of law, or princi^es of
justice; and seem to imagine, that if they
can prove it to be expedient, it is not ne-
cessary to sho^ that it is equitable.
How for, my lords, they nave succeeded
in that argument which they have most
laboured, I think it not necessary to exa-
mine, because I have hitherto accounted
it an incontestable maxim, that whenever
interest and virtue are in competition, vir-
tue is always to be preferred.
The noble lord who spoke first in this
4ebate has proved the unreasonableness
imd illegality of the methods proposed in
t|j% Bill> beyond the possibility of confu-
t^9i| ; he h^s shown that they are incon-
sistent with the law, and that the law is
^,Pdfid upon reason ; he has proved, that
•»*- ^ #uppo^es a cri^ainal previous to
the crime, summons tlif m9g^'%9 a (nil,
and then enqitires for what qff^nce.
Nor has he, my lofds, coiitne4 ^amX
to a detection of the original defect, ths
uncertainty of any crime committed, Vut
has proceeded to prove, that upon vbit-
ever supposition we proceed* the Billk
unequitaole, and of no other tendsncy
than to multiply grievances, and establish
a precedent of oppression^
For this purpose he has shown, that so
evidence can be procured by this V^ be-
cause 9)\ those woo shall, won the encoa-
ragement proposed in it, oner infqnnstioB,
must be considered as hired ifitae8ie% lo
whom no credit can be givc% and who
therefore ought not to be h^a^
His lordship.alao proved, that we enroot
pass this Bill without diminii^iiQg our r^
oestoifing new mivfers. upon the Hme of
C<Knmoni, conmiiiw ionoie qf their ciuw
which ana most duiMoiis, n^ft^ by cme-
quencet witboiKt noUtiog the cotit^^^
To all theae aifwenta, $ggmM
dmwn from the most iv|>ortaiii<msidcnr
tions^ teforced by the strongest reaiimSi
and explained wJtb the utmost vifntMty^
what has been replied^ How Wesnyof
his assertioins he^ iny^lidetei^ er any of
his reasons eluded? How has it bast
shown that ther^ ia any founditm ftr i
criminal charge, that witnesses thoipro-
cured oi^ht to be hei^ or that our n^
would not be made disputable 1^ ocmano'
ing the proceedings, of the Hcmeof Cssi*
mons2
It has been apsmn»d . by ^ i«9We loid,
that though tb^re is not canm dMk
there k corpus SHspichfut. Yftm^my^
the force of 4us aigumen^ I cannotaiy*
because I am not ashafned IP own* thai 1
do not understaod the mp»ni<ig of the
words. I very well uod^^iBtand what ii
meant by corptis didicHf avkd.aa.do^ erejt;.
other lord ; it is universally kpaim to
mean the < body of an ofienoe.;* hut ii to
the words cofpus suspickmis^ Id^^not ooift'
prebend what they mean : it is an esyrai-
sion indieed which I never, befoi^. mri^
andean s^ify,' in n^ imprehensioo, no-
thing more than the * body of a stmiom!
the substance of something which ii itielf
nothings
Such, my lords, is. the principle of tisi
Bill, by the confession nfiu warmiest sod
ablest advocates ; it is a Bill for suioiosa*
in^ a person to a trial, agiiinst whom no
crime is alleged^ and i^iainst whom no
witness will appear vi^out a bribOi
For. thu thwt ^p^ should ^fpm ia
tm tktBAfoiMlnWff^ Evidenee.
093]
cobtfeqwiato '^ (lib BBI to Okr their
will iat^jr need tto j^rdtf 16 those who
coii8idei>, tHat bribM am nbt confiftied to
motley^ aiHi that tir^ ibta i(/h6 prttneles
hk o#kl Merest bt his depesitlon, b strear-
Ihg ttot for thitt and jMice, but for
hiiiifleie
It may be urged, iliid it b» in my
niota, aD tittit the moA frititriil imikgini
can auggeit in favour qt thb iftul, that
they aare not irequirad to ieeuie tbe earl
of Olfiffd, but to ^ve ia thdr evidence
coneaming lib cohduct^ whether in hb
fiivottr or against h&n.
But thb argument, my hnda; however
Mdotit it ttiajr tl»em, #01 vanbh bfitaelf,
if the BBl be dili^tly tdnsiderM, whidi
m only to e(Hifer indemnity on those, who
In die ctMurae of their ^i<nee ah^ db-
cover any of their own cHinei; on.thote
whdie lasthnony stitil tend to fix some
Abxj^ ef iriekedneaii on die earl of O^-
Jbrd $ fdr it cannot eteily be iml^ned
liMiw theae irho tmetat m hb favour,
dlouU be under k neoeisitjr of revealing
thTactiona that require an indemnity.
Tlitta, my lordt,Tt appears that the Bill
can prodtiee ho other etfect than that of
aaolt^iying aceutationa, dnce it oilers
TbwArtii only to ihdse who are supposed
to haTa engf^ged rn unjuitiitaUe practices,
and to procure witnesses by thb niethdd,
b equaUT unjust as to propbse a public
priae to be obtained by swearing i^ibt
any of teur Ibrdshipa.
If witnesses art! to be jpurchased, we
ought at least to oftr an e(|ufil price cb
eAdi aide; that though th^ may be m-
dnced by the rHrard to ofer their depo-
Mtioni, ^ey niiy hotMtemfRedtoaccn^
rather tliatt to justify.
Shotdd any private man, my lords, ofo
a re#Atti to any that #ould give evidence
against another, without specifying the
crittie of #hid< he b accilsed, doubtless
he irticfld M! cbtiiide^d by th^ laws bt
iUs itation, is a violate of CHe rights Of
soti^, an op^n slandei'er, fitndadistufber
of manlittd; and would immediately, by
an indi<:tiA^nt or itifohnation, be Mig^d
to mafte satbfaction to th^ commonity
which hd had ofl^ded, or to the person
wfaOiii M had iHjMA. ,
It hib, iky lordt, I o#n, beA' asteMd
by the noble dMtb; that Ae public had
a right to every man's evidence, a ipaxini
which in its proper sense cannot be de-
iiiM. rMrleiliffidotetedIyt^,thatMi^
pttlie> li a'righ^ timfa IhsiMMW W
JL D. mi
ceM
eVety Indfaridnd^ but it b, my lords,
upon such terins im have bean established
(br the l^etal advantage of all : on sudi
terms as the majority of each society haa
prebcHbed, But, my lords^ the . miQoritgr
of a society, which is the true definidcm
of <the public,' aie eqadhr obliaed wilh
AeauMUer number, or with inmviduals»
to the observation of justice, and cannot
therefore jlrescribe to different individuab
diierettt conditions. They cannot decree
thtt tnatmOkit to be just with regard to
one which they allow to be cruel with
Cnesptet to another. The daims of the
nbfie are ibnnded, first upim right, whtdi
invibiable; and next upon the law,
whieh^ th6u^ muUble in iu own nature,
b however to be so fltr fixed, as thatevenr
man iday know hb own condition, his
owh property, and hb own privilqges^ or
it ceases hi efffect to be Uw, it ceases to
be the rule of government, or the meaitne
df conduct;
In the pr^ent case, my lords^ die pu5-
lic has not a right to hhre evidence, because
the pliblie hSs hitherto subsist^ upon
dib edndition; imbng others, that no nufti
shidl swear in lys own cause. The pub*
lie hln not a right to reqpiire from aagr
man that he should betray himself, be-
cause every man may j^lead that be
b exem^tad fimm that damtnd by the
public fiuth.
Thus, my lords, the mht of the ptd»*
lie b only that right whitfi the poUic hAa
established by law, and confirmed by con*
tihual claims ; nor b the cbim of the pub-
lic from individuals to be extended beyond
ifii known bounds, except in tunes Of
general dbtreas, where a few must do-
cessarily snfler for the preservation of
thereat.
Thb necessity b indeed now urged, bui
surely it ought to be shown that the pee-
sent drcumaiances of afinrs difler iroas
those of any former age, before it can
with any pmpriety be asserted, that i
sore* are nbw neoetsary, which
distresses, however urgent, or provoca*
ttons, boweverflamnt, have hitherto pro-
duct* It ouaht to be eroved, thia
wickednteas hiid dUcovered some new
sheher from justice, before new engines
ari invented to! force it from its retneaa^
and new powers appfiM to drag b out lo
panbhtoMiC*
The nation hai AUbdbied, nyiorda, so
many cenchri^ has oftai recovered firoaa
die lUmktiam dbeaaa of inward corrupt
itfai/ «mW|«1MI #t*od»of
15 QEOBGE n.
violence; it has often ben endangered by
corrupt coonsek , and wicked maehina-
tioosy and surmounted them by the force
of iu established laws, without the assist-
.ance of temporary expedients ; at least
without expedients like this, which neither
.law nor justice can support, and whidi
would in itself be a more atrocious grie?-
;ance than those, if they were real, which
At is intended to punidi, and might pro-
'duce far greater evils than those, whidi
are imputed to him against whom it is
projected.
it has indeed, my.lords, been menticm-
.ed by a noble lord, in much softer lan-
.guage, as a method only of making an
enquiry possible. The possibility of an
enquiry, my lords, is a very remote and
iooSeasive idea; but names will not change
' the nature of the things to which they
I are applied. The Bill is, in my opinion,
calculated to make a defence impossible,
to deprive innocence of its guard, and to
.let loose oppression and perjury upon the
f world. It IS a Bill to dazzle the wicked
with a prospect of security, and to incite
(them to purchase an indemnity for one
. crime, by the pernetration of another. It is
* a Bill to confouna the notions of right and
wrop^, to violate the esseooe of our con-
stitution, and to leave us without any cer-
^n security for bur properties, or nue for
our actions.
^or are the particular pdrts less defec-
tive than the general foundation ; for it
is full of ambiguous pronuses, vague ideas,
and indetermmate expressions, of which
some hbve been already particidarixed by
the noble lords that have spoken on tlus
occasion, whose observations I shall not
'repeat, nor endeavour. to improve; but
cannot forbear proposing to the advocates
for the Bill, one sentence; that it may be
explained by them, and that at least we
MOAv not pass what we do not underatand.
In the enquiry into the conduct of the
ead of Orford, every man, as we have d-
ready seen, is invited to bring his evidence,
• and to brocure an indemnity, by answer-
ing such questions as shall be asked,
^* toudiingor coneerning the said enquiry,
or relative thereto.'' What is to be un-*
deistood by this last sentence, I would
willingly be in&rtned ; 1 would hear how
At the relation to the enquury is desifjned
to be extended, with what otner enquiries
«it is to be complicated, suid where the
. sih^ of intenro^itories is to have an end.
when an evideace appears before Ae
^f- hoir cm he be. certain DM
IhiaieUiih0i4frdt
[696
the ^pestioBs adcedt are << nlative to the
enfttury ?'' How can he be certain that
they are such as he may procufe so in-
demni^ by resolvine? Or whether t!hey
are not uaconneaed with the prindpil
question, and therefore insidious and das-
gerous? And to what power must hs
appeal, if he should be prosecuted after-
wards upon his own confession, on pre*
tence that it was not ** relative to theeo*
quiry?*'
Expressions likc^hese, my lords, if d»^
are not the effepts of maljoioas hurry, sod
negligent animosity, must be intended.to
vest Uie committee with absolute autho-
rity, with the award of life and death, by
leaving to them the liberty to explain the
statute at their own pleasure> to contract
or^eularge the relation to the controvenj,
to enquire without bounds, and judge
without controul*
Thus, my lords, I have laid before yw
my opinion, of this Bill without any par-
tial rc^jard, without exaggerating &e ill
consequences tliat may be feardl from it,
or endeavouring to elude any reasoning
by which it lias been defended. I have
endeavoured to pursue the acgumoits of
the jaoble lord who spoke fint, and to
show tliat it is founded upon &lse notions
of criminal justice, tliat it proposes ina^
tional and illegal methods of trial, tliat it
will produce consequences fatal to our
constitution, and establish a prec^nt of
oppression*.
I have endeavoured, in examining the
arguments by which the Bill has been de-
femled,, to show that the rights of the
public are ascertained, and that die power
of the majority is to be limited by moral
considerations ; and to prove, in discuci-
ing its particular parts, that, it is inacca-
rate, indeterminate, and unintellisible.
What effects my enquiry may have had
upon your lordships, yourselves only can
t^l; for my part, the necessity of dwelling
so lone upon the question, has added new
strengui to my conviction; and so dearly
do 1 now see the danger and injustice ci t
law like this, that Uiough I do not imagine
myself indued with any peculiar degree of
heroism, 1 believe, that if I were coa-
demned to a choice so disagreeable, I
should more willingly suffer by sqdi a Bill
passed in my own case, than consent to
passitin thatof another^ .
TheDukeo£Argyle:
My lords; I ^m not yet able to
.^li|C0ver that the. Sill. now :be^ i» is
or]
«m th« BiH to tnienmtfy ^mdenee.
A. O. 174C
im
dther QlMd or a|iBiv4, diat iU isterpra^
tadon IS aoubtful, or its probable oonfle-
^uenc^ dangerous.
Tlie kdttputable maxiiD» that *^ the
pablic hat a right to every man'g evi-
dence,'' has be^ explained away with
jBuch ]ai)oar» and with more art than a
good cause ean often require. We have
been told of pablic contracts, of the rights
^ BocieQr with regard to individuals,
and the privileges of individuals with
r^^iect to society ; we have had one term
opposed to anoth^, only to amuse our
attention ; and law, reason, and sophistry,
have been mingled, till common sense was
lost ia the contusion.
But, my lords, it b easy to disentangle
^U this perplexity of ideas, and to set
truth free from thie shackles of sophistry,
by observing that it is, in all civilized
nations of the world, one of the first prin-
ciples of the constitution ; that the pub-
lic has a right, always reserved, of having
recourse to extraoniinai^y methods of pro-
ceeding, when the happiness of the. com-
munity appears not sufficiently secured by
the known laws.
Laws may, bv those who have made the
study and explanation of them, the em-
ployment of their lives, be esteemed as the
great staodar4 of right; they may be ha^
hituaily revereiioed, and considered as
sacred in their own nature, without regard
lo the end which they are designed to pro-
duce.
But others, my lords, whose minds ope-
rate without any impediment from educa-
licm, will easily discover, that laws are to
be regarded only for their use ; that the
pover which made them onlv for the pub-
lic advantage, ought to alter or annul
them, when the v are no longer serviceable,
or when they (K>struct those effects which
ihej were intended to promote.
1 will therefore, mv lords, still assert, that
the public has a right to every man's evi*
denoe; and that to reject any Bill which
can have no other consequence than that
of enabling the nation to assert its daim,
to reconcile one principle of law with ano-
ther, and to deprive villainy of an evasion
which may always be used, is to deny jus-
tice to an oppressed people, and to concur
in the ruin at our country.
And fiaurtber, my lords, I confidently af-
firm it has not been proved, that this Bill
can endanger any but the guilty ; nor has
it been shown that it is drawn up for any
other purpose than that whicl^ the noble
joid maationed, ifi hin4cring im enguyy
fi^m beu^ impossiblt; ifc miqr themfiMv
jusUv be required from those who albcl,
on this occasion, so mudi tendem^ £nr
liberty, so many suspicions of remotede* .
signs, and so much zeal for our conatatar
tion, to demonstrate, that either an enquiiy
may be carried on bv other means, or
that an enquiry is itself supcHrfluoua or im»
prcMper.
Though none of those who have spoken
against the Bill have been willing to ex»
pose themselves to universal indignation^
by declaring that they would gladly ob-
struct the progress of the enquiry ; thaS
they designed to throw a mist over tha
public afluurs, and to conceal from the peo»
pie the causes of their misery ; and though
1 have no right to charge those who di^r
from me in opinion with intentions, which^
as ihty do not avow them, cannot be provf*
ed; this however I* will not fear to rarnip
that those who are for rejecting this ma»
thod of enquiry, would consult their ho-
nour by proposing some other equally effi-
cacious ; lest it should be thought by such
as have not any opportunities of knowing
their superiority to temptations, that they
are influenced by some motivess which they
are not willing to own, and that they aie^
in secret, enemies to the enquiry, thou^
in public they only condemn tfate method
of pursuing it.
The Duke of NeweaHle :
My lords; the arguments whick
have been produced in defence rf the Bill
before us, nowever those who offer them
mav be influenced by them, have made^
hitherto, very little impression upon me;
my opinion of the improoriety and Ulega-
litv of this new metnod of prosecution^
stul continues the same ; nor can it be ex-
pected that I should alter it, till those tm^
sons have been answered which have been
offered bv the noble lord who spoke first
in the debate.
The advocates for the Bill seem, in*'
deed, conscious of the insufficiencv of
their arguments, and have therefore added
motives of another kind ; thev have in^
formed us, that our power suosists upon
our reputation, and that our reputation can
only be preserved by concurring in the
measures recommended by the Commons ;
they have insinuated to us, that he who dt^
structs this Bill, will be thought desirous
to obstruct the enquiry, to conspire tha
ruin of his country, and to act in confie^
deracy with public robbers.
But, my lords, whether tbe nation k
m]
15 GBOSGB IL
Ikhlfm^LMk
we^halllyf emmnc&if thM nothing hat se*
cured It l^t tile power of truth.
It is enouired by die noble lord, how
ire fthall distinguish true from ftlse evi*
4t!hte ; to which it maT be very readiij
enswered, that we shall distingaish them
by the same means as on any other occa-
aion, by comparing the allegationsy and
coDsidering how every witness agreee with
ediers and with himself, how hr his asser-
tions are in themseWes probable, how
they are coaftrmed or weakened by known
einraBistanoes, and how far they are ia^a-
Udated by the contrary eridence.
We shaM, my lords, if we add our sanc-
tion to this Bill, discover when any man's
•eeusatien is prompted b^ his interest, as
we mAt kaow whether it was dictated by
kism^ce.
k has been asked also, how any man
can Bioartaia his claim to the indemnitv?
To wMch it may be easily replied, that by
giving his evidence he acquires a right,
m tw evidence shall be proved to be
Abe.
The noUe lord who spoke some time
ago, and whose abilities and qualities are
ittch, that 1 cannot but esteem and admire
him, even when conviction obliges me to
oppose him, has proposed a case in which
beseems to imagine that a murderer might
secure himself from punishment, by con-
necting his crime with some transaction in
which the earl of Orford should be in-
Serested. This case, mj lords, is suffi-
ciently improbable, nor is it easy to men-
tion any method of trial in which some
inconvenienoe may not be produced, in
4^ indefinite complications of circum-
stances, and unforeseen relations of events.
It is known to have happened once,and can-
not be known not to nave happened often,
that a person accused of murder, was
tried by a jur^ of which the real murderer
was one. Will not this, then, be an argu-
ment affsinst the great privile^ of the na-
tives of this kingdom—a trial by their
equals f
But, my lords, I am of opinion that the
murderer would not be indemnified by
Mb Bill, since he did not commit ^e
crime by the direction of the person whom
he is supposed to accuse; nor would it
iMve any necessary conneotion with his
oottduct, but might be suppressed in the
•eeusatioa, without any diminutioB of the
ftioe of the evideaoeu A man will not
be sttifinred to introdace his aocusation
wilih anaoDOont ofaBtbeviOaniesof his
^MtlKshutiitt beitfdNdtaeoatoe
C«
his testimony to the aftir upon tUdi hi
is examined.
The committee, my lords, vitt %
tinguish between die crimes perpicf^
by the direction of the earl of OrfoM, and
those of another kind. And ibciuld ^
enormeus criminal give such evideoos, a
the noble lord was pleased to flupuai
he may be indemnified for the mi2
but will be hanged for the murder, aj
withstanding any thing in this B9i to ij
contrary. ]
It has been insisted on by the ^
lords, who have spoke against the ^
that no crime is proved, and tbeiili
there is no £DUndation for it Bat, i
lords, I have always thought that the n
fiisioa of the poUic money wasacna
and there is evidently a very laigs M
expended, of which no account hai U
S'ren.; ai^d what more neariy relitii!
e present question, of which no aeeil
has ever been demanded.
On this occasion, m^ lords, ananeitj
has been alleged, which no perssmll
gard shall ever prevail upon me to h
without disputing it, sii)ce I think I
of the most dangerous tendency, aadt
supported by reason or by law. It ii.
leged, my lords, that the civil list is osl
be considered as public rnoniev, and 1
the nation has therefore no {mm to i
quire how it is distributed ; that it is pi
to support tlie dignity of the oow% m
that only his majesty can ask die nm
of any milures in the accounts of it I
1 mive on the contrary, my lords,
to understood, that all was pubhc
which was ^en by the pubhc Hie
sent condition of tne crown is very
ent fit>m that of our ancient moo
who supported their dignity by their
estates. I admit, my lords, that fim
might at pleasure contract or enhr^ thi
expenoes, mortgage or alienate their knA
or bestow presents and pensions, wira
controul.
It is indeed expressed in the act, tt
the gmnts of the civil list are without ie
count, by which I have hitherto unte
stood only diat the sum total is ezenfl
from account ; not that the ministen bM
a right to employ the civfl list to ndl
purposes as they shall think most coDd»
cive to their private views, Forifitibodi
be granted, not only that thenatioQ Im
no right to know how Uie whole isexporf*
ed, which is die utmost that can be si*
lowed, or to direct the appHeatioo of sbj
part of it^ whidi^ m v«y ikpsM^p
7W]
imihejm'iahBbm^Emdenee.
A. a i7«f.
I'm
tmctMif koirever g^ntwlly ameviM-
able ud uoiual, whico may sot ba fome-
tinef equitable and proper; and duit if
we are to lay aside aU ragard to fiiturity»
and act merely with regwd to tbe^ present
engeooey it may be often proper to violate
tftrj part of our constitution* This
Howe may sometimes haire rejected Bills
boeficial to the nation; and if this rea-
Mpiog be allowed, it might haye been
wee and just in the Commons and the
Uag to hanre suspended our authority by
6rce, to hate voted us usahMa on that
occawm, and have paaaed the law without
oarcoQCuireaee.
With regard to the eatablishmtnt of cri*-
minalproasGutHmst at well as to our civil
i^ta» Wt are; my lords, to consider what
a npon the whole most for the advantage
afdieDohlic; we arc not to admit prac-
tm which may. bq aometimei useful, but
nay be often pernicious, and which sup*
Bie men better or wiser than they are.
e do not grant absohite power, to a wise
and moderate prince, beoanse his sue-
oama may inherit hii power without his
wtues; we are nottotrustor.aUownew
nethods of prosecution upon an occasion
IB which they aaay seean usefiil^ because
Ae^msy be employed to purposes very
difaeot from those for which they were
Btrodooeds
Thua, my lords, I havn shown the im-
propriety of the Bill now before us, iqpon
the moat ftvoorable siqiposilien that can
ponibhr be made; a supposition of the
puit of the noble penon against whom it
scoDtrired. And sqrdy, my lards, f^iat
cnmot even m that case be approved,
B»t,ifwesuimosehim innocent, bjO de-
leted.
That he is reallv innocent, my lords,
te he is only blackened by cahnnny, and
pnmied by resentment, cannot be more
■frond V proved than by the necessity to
vhich his enemies are reduosd, of using
ttpedients never heard of in this nation
mre, to procure accusations against bin ;
^pedmnts which they cannot show to
we been at any time necessary for the
pDiihment of a man really wicked, and
vhich, by bringing guOt and innocence
Qto the same dttiger, leave uaat liberty
to ifflsgiae, that he is dear from the crimes
^^pttedto him, even in the opinion of
noe ^lio pursoe him with Ae fiercest
ittentment, and the loudest damours.
^msv well be imagined, nay lords, that
worn whom he has io kmg defeated fay his
now; bafled fajT' his •
$ and; that tb«r4HdjFntta^lilEMli**
cote his duuraoter,to bide th^4me fOMMt
for which they former^ attacl^ed hisb
power*
I hope, my lords, I shall be eaaily i^m
given for observing^ that this ia a^ testiaKMijr
of unoorrupted greatneqst more iilustrioiift
than l^ly former ntinister has ever obn
tained; forwhenwaaithnesvn>n^]oi!ds^
that after, n continuance of power foe
twioaty years, any man, when bia oonduct
became the su^ftot of pMbKe^mroinataoni,
Wftt without acco^ew:? :
I cannot, for my part* buticongratuhli^
the noUe Pinon upon his triumph over'
malice, malioe assistiBd bv suhtihy and. en*,
perienoe, by- wealth anot pewer^ which iir
at leMth obliged to confess its impotenoi^
to call upon ua to assiitt it with new lawsi.
to enable it la dfev i^ reward for evidsnotti
ag^ainst him, and tl^owi down the boundaA
nes of natural justice, that he vuqr h»
harassed, censured and oppressed, upon
whom it cannot he proved that he even
deviated firom the law, or employed hia»
power for any other end thanthepvaasotiem.
of the public happiness.
Had the officers, of the crown, my lord^
when his influence was lepresanled so greats
and his dominion so absolute, projesledi
anyMch meteirea for his. defenoe; had
they nroposed to silence hb. oppansmlss
by cailling them to a trial, and oferadLa^
stated prfoe for accusations against theoL
how loudly would they have been charged^
with the most flagrant violation of thO'
laws, ai^d die most ofMen disrcfard of thm
rights of nature; with hon nwch vn».
hmence would it have been nrgad, thai'
thev were intoaueated with their success^
ana that in the foil security of power thejf:
employ t
pietian of those purpossfii in which ;
would give them no assistance t
I dmbt not that }^our lorddiips wiQ
eaai^ perceive^ diat tUscensuro is equaliy -
just m either case; that you will not allows
an^ man to be proaecnted by methodai
wmch he ought not to have used in his-
own case; Uiat you wiU not expose any.
man to hardships, from which every othsv-
member of the community is exempt; tbati
vott will not soffisr any man to be tried by«
hired evidence; and that yon will nM*
condemn him whom the law \
Lord Bathurtt :
MyhKdaithe.
T9S] 15e£0R6B*IL
csanderatioit has been so long and so jkc-
0watdy debatedi that little can be added
to the arguments on either side; and
therefore, though I think it necessary on
ao important an occasion to make a scwemn
declaration of mj opinion, I shall endea-
tour to snpport it, not so much by any
arguments of my own, as by a recapitula-
tion and comparison of those which have
been already heard by your lordships.
It has not been denied, that the punish-
nent of crimes is absolutely necessary to
the public security ; and as it is evident,
tiiat crimes cannot be punished unless
they are detected, it must be allowed, that
the discovery of wicked measures ought
tto be in a very great degree the care of
those who are entrusted with the govern-
ment of the nation ; nor can thcrf better
diBcfaarae tibeir trust, than by deftoting
the artmces of intrigue, and blocking up
tiie retreats of guilt*
• ThisJikewtse, my lords, is admitted with
such restrictions as seem intended to pre-
clude any advantage that mi^ be drawn
from the mearance of a concession ; for
it is urged, tnat guilt is hot to be detected
by any oiethods which are not just, and
that no methods are just which are not
usual.
The first position, my lords, 'I have no
intention to contfovert; as it is not to
vMate justice, but to preserve it from vio-
lation, that this Bill has been projected or
defended. But, my lords, it is to be ob-
served, that they who so warmly recoib-
mend the strictest adherence to justice,
seem not fully to understand the duty
which they urge. To do justice, my
lords, is to act with impartiality, to banish
from the mind all regard to personal mo-
tivesi, and to consider evenr cjuestion in its
whole extent, without suftrins the atten-
tion to be restrained to particiuar circum-
itances, or the judgment to be obstructed
by partial affection.
I This rule, my lords, seems not to have
been very carefully observed b}r the most
vehement advocates for justice in the case
before us ; for they appear not to be soli-
citous that any should receive justice but
tjbe person mentioned in the Bill ; they do
not remember, that the public has cried
out for justice more than twenty years,
Ibr justice which has not yet been obtain-
wif and which can be obtained only by the
■lethod now proposed.
It u necessary, my lords, for those who
we so watchful against the breach of jus-
*^mt to'pneve that any means can.be unjust
which have no odiertesdeBCYtiian diede-*
tection t>f wiekedness, of mdcedneas too
artful or too powerful to be punished by
the common rules of law.
The introduction of new methods of
prosecution, is the natural consequence of
new schemes of vUlainy, or new arts of
evasion ; nor is it necessary that prece-
dents should be produced, when the wisdom
ofthelegisfaiture concurs in acknowiedgmg I
the necessity of eztraordmary messutes.
Though our constitution is in the highest |
degree excellent, I never yet heard Uiat it
was perfect, and whatever is not perfect
may be improved. Our laws, however
wise, are yet the contrivances of human
policy; andwhyshouldwedespairof add-
mg somevdiat to that wliich we inherit
from our anoeMors ? Why should we ima-
gine, that they anticipated every (x>ntin-
gency^ and left nodung for succeeding
ages?
I thmk, my lords^ with the highest re-
gard both of our laws and those by whom
&ey were enacted, but I look widi no less
veneration on this illustrious asaemUy ; I
believe your lordships equal to your pro-
genitors in abilities; and thereme, amcs
you cannot but outgo diem in experience^
I am confident that you may make im-
provements in Uie fabric which they have
erected : that you may adorn it with new
beauties, or strengthen it with aew wa^
ports.
It cannot at least be denied, that your
lordships have all the power of your an-
cestors; and since every law was once
new, it is certain they were far from imi-
gining that there was sAways a necessity
of enquiring after precedent^ if the ar-
gument drawn from the want of precedents
be now of any force, let it be proved that
its force was less in any former reign; and
let it be considered how our government
could have attained its present exoelience,
liad this House, instead of apfdying to
every grievance its proper remedy, been
amused with turning over joomsis, and
looking upon every new emergence te
preee&n ts, of which it is certain that thoe
most have been a time in which they were
not to be found.
In all regulations established by the
legislature, it is sufficient that they do not
produce confosiott by being incoasisteBt
with former laws, that they unite easily
with our cotistituition,.anddoQottendto
the embarrassment of the madiine of go-
vernment. This oonskieratioii, my leros,
,has been in a yiery semadoUe manner re-
TW]
on tk€ am io indemnify Evidence. A. D. I7i& * fTnS
nrdcdb]rtbiMwk0drtiriipdMBiH bt*
farew; ft Bill of which the BoUe dukt
hm prove4» th$i it will be so ftr frooi per^
pleiiDg our judidal prooeediiigi» that it
will reconcile the bw to itielf, nd free 110
iron the neoeninrof obeyiag one ptecept
bj the neglect of another*
The argamenli of the BoUe duke are
flich BBt in mj opinion* cannot be an-
8wered|0r heard impartially without coo-
victkn. The maxims quoted hj him ate
each of them inconteidbl^ true ; thev are
on diii eeeasioD ioGonipaabley ami this is
the only method by which they can be re-
Nor has be onhr shown the propriety of
the Bill by irrelragable reasons, but has
proved likewise^ that it is consistent, not
only with the constitution of our govem-
ment, but with the practice of our ances-
tors ; he has shown, that it may be sop-
ported, not only by reason, but by Bills of
the same kind, enacted on occasions of &r
1cm importanoe.
He naa proved, ray lords, all that the
most senipulous enquirer can wish; he has
■Mde it evident, that the Bill would be
proper, tfaooffh it were unprecedented; he
km predoced many precedents in support
of it, and has thereby evinced, that the
only present question is, Whether it is
C? To the precedents alleffed b;jr him it
been objected, that they difler in some
particalarB. But when, my lords, did any
tvo actioos, however common, agree in
every circumstance? relations may be
complicated without end, and every new
complication produces new appearances,
which, however, are alw^ to be disre-
garded while the constituent principles
remain unvaried.
If we consider the difficulties in which
the opponents of the Bill have involved
thonsdves, it will not be easy to think well
sf a cBoae, which gives birth to such wild
siMitioos, and extravagant opinions. They
have first, by requiring preosdents, deter-
nooed that our constitotion must be hence-
forward for ever at a stand ; and then, by
decbrin^ thust no precedents are of any
weii^t, m whidi evcrjr circumstance is not
psrdld to the case m debate, have de-
tMrred us fiom the repetition of any occa-
Mal bw ; they have declared, almost in
phun terms, themselves useless, and de-
Mroyed that auAority at once, which they
Men so much afraid of communicating to
the Commons-
Bet by none of their arts of subtle dis-
tiactioii, my loeds, hate they bean able to
[VOL. XIL]
evade the argument whidi arises from the
coafdemty of this BiU to the common
practices our courts; an argument which
has produced no other answer than loud
declamations against the indecency of
comparfflff with pickpodbeti nd highway-
men, a noble per^on^ a minister of adcnow-
Mged merit, long graced with the favour
of nis sovereign, and lohg invested with
the highest trust.
I, my lords, am very far from pleasing
myself with licentious or indecent law-
guage ; I am fiir from envying any man
that exaltation which he obtains either
by food or by bad actions; and havw no
inchoation of levellmg the person, whose
conduct 1 desire to see examined, with the
profligate or infamous. Yet 1 cannot for-
bear to observe, that high rank is an ag^
gravation of villainy ; that to have enjoyed
Uke &vour of Jiis soverei^, is no defence
of him that has abused it; and that high
trust is an honour only to that man, wto,
when he lays down his office, dares stand
anenomry.
Had there been no precedent in our
judicial proceedmgi, my lords, which bofie
any resemblance to this Bill, there would
not from thence have arisen any just ol^
lection. Common proceedings are enta-
blished for coounon occasions; and it
seems to have been the principle of onr an-
cestors, that it is better to give ten guilty
persons an opportunity <rf escaping justice,
than to punish one innocent person by an
>injust sentence; a principle, which, per-
haps, might not be emmeooa in oonmiOQ
cases, in which only one individual was in-
jured by another, or when the trial was by
the law committed to a common jury, who
mis^t easily be misled.
They miji^ht likewise imagnie, my lords,
thata criminal, encouraged by a fortunate
escape to a repetition of his guilt, would
undoubtedly some time fidl into die hands
of the law, though not extended on pori»
pose to seize him ; and therefore they con-
stituted their proceedings in such a man*
ner, that innocence might at least not be
entrapped, though guilt should sometiroea
gam a reprieve.
But in the prcoent case, my lords, every
circumstance requires a diflerent conduct*
By the crimes which this Bill is mtended
to detect, not single persons, or privaie
fiimilies, but whole nations, and all orders
of men, have long been mjured and op*
pressed, and oppremed with such successt
that the criminal has no temptatum to re-
new hia praqtioas; w
[a 2]
091]
15 QE0R6E IL
BebttehOeLorit
[t
▼•rei^ce of the public cannot be preaeir^d
but by ri^d justice and active beneficence.
For this reason, I am far from panting
that we ought (o be cautious of diarging
those with crimes who have the honour M
a jeat amongst us. In my opinipn, my
lords* we ought to be watchful against the
least suspicion of wickedness in our own
bodV| we ought to ^ect pollutiop from our
widiSy and preserve that power for whidi
some appear so anxious, by k^epiog our
reputation pure and.untaii|te4«
It is therefore to little puipose olgecl^
that there is no cofpus delicti i fi>r even
though it were true, yet while there k a
corpui iuspiciafu$p Uien enquiry ought to
b^ made for our own honour* nor can
either law or repson be pleaded agiunst it.
I cannot therefore doubt, that your
lordsfups will endeavour to do justice;
tbat you will ftcilitate the production of
oral evidence, lest all written proob should
bi^d^troyed; that jrou will not de«pise
tbe united petition of the whole people, of
which I dread the consequence; nor re*
j^ the only es^pedient oj which their
fears may be dissipated, ana their heppi*
nets secured.
Lord Chancellor Hardnicke :
My lords; after having, with an
intention uninterrupted by^ any foreign
considerations, and a mind intent only On
the discoverjr of truth, examined every
argument which has been urged on either
side, I ihmk it my duty to declare, that I
have yet discovered no reason, whidh, in
my opinion, ousrht to prevaS iq[>on ua to
radfy the Bill uat is now before us,
Tlie noble lords who have defended it,
appear to reason more «qK>n maxims of
p[)Iicy> tha^ rules of kw, or principles of
justice; and seem to ima^'ne, that if they
can prove it to be expedient, it is not ne*
cessary to show that it is eauitable.
How far, my lords, they nave succeeded
in that arkument which they have most
laboured* I think it not necessary to exa^
mine, because I have hitherto accounted
it an incontestable maxim, that whenever
il^terest and virtue are in competition, vir«
tue is always to be preferred.
The noble lord who spoke first in this
debate has proved the unreasonableness
ttid illegality of the methods prooosed in
t^j^ Bill, beyond the possibility or confu-
t^Qi) ; he has shown that they are incon-
sistent with the law* and that the bw is
^j)4s^ upon reason ; he has proved* that
tbp. m Puppom a criminal pjevioifs to
the crime, summons th^ 919^ to a tnd,
and then enquires for what 9fliipce.
Nor has he, my lords, confined hiaidC
to a detection of the original defiect, ths
uncertainty of any crime committed, but j
has proceeded to prove, that upon what-
ever supposition we proceed, the Bill v
unequitable, and of no other tendeiunf
than to multiply grievances, and estsbliu
a precedent of oppreasion.
For this purpose he has shown, thst DO
evidence can be procured by this 9% be*
cause 1^1 those wno shall, upon the eocoo*
ragement proposed in it, oner infqmatioa,
must be <;onsidered as hirad iritaesm, lo
whom no credit can be giveot and who
therefore ought not to b^ nwrd*
His hnrdohip a]«o proved, that wecaaaot
pass this Bill without diminishing our right»
Destoiring new poirer^ upon the Houeof 1
Cqmmony, coniintiiny jome of tb»r mm '
which ai9 moBt dubioiis, n^* ^y coMft* ^
qucaice>wiUiOiaiiola^tlieo0pu^oD. ^
To all these aq^u^ient^ vgumH
drawn from the moat iByoctnnt<Wti^ff»
tions» tefofced by the stro^gee^reaooipii
and explained wjlh the utmosliMapiettitgr, ^
what has been rq^liedi Dow. n^re SAjr of'
his assertions htm mvalideted» or any tf'
his reasons duMi Hoif has it bom;
shown that there k uoj fQundatioa kx%^
criminal charge, that witnesses tbuSrprOiiit
cured ought to Im hei^ or. that OMT wtB
would not be made disputable fa^ oonanasi^
ing the prooee4ing!9 of cheHi«oaeof C«ab.
moos2
It has been apsyferod bf a i^Ue.loii ri
that though thew i$ not coram mUdi^i^
there k corpus st$spiciQim. Yfi^mj^i
the force of ibk aiguQoen^ I ca«iMtMjr«'
because I am not asheined to. own* ^h.
do not understand the mefuiijOg. of d^-:
words. I very well undi^nstimd whst ilfrj
meant by corpus deUcHt and .so, doeo efeifr^
other lord ; it is universally. Imo^ ta«y
mean the < body of an o<fenoe.;^ wA m te, ,
the words corpmsuspkhnihl^^^Wi^^^^iXi
prehend what they mean : it is aa expra>e ;:,
sion indeed which I never befiwei mri$'r
and can sjgnify,' in my apprehensioo, no- .
thing more than the * body of a sbadowj' ^
the substance of something which is itie%
nothing.
Such, my lords* is the principle eCtbki .;
Bill, by the confession of Its warnssitsiHlt.
shiest advocates ; it is a Bill for.auoiiQOO* '[
10^ a person to a trial* agpunit adiom no. ,
crime is alleged* and against ^iioin ne .
witness will appear without a bribOi p
For the^ t|i9ae 1^0 should 4«Mir ia ^
093] trntJ^BAioiMmi^f^EeUknee.
to&ikifM» *6f diis B» to tiflbr their
tfldeMs, <mghi tobfev^Dkidiefredubtihed,
wiU Bareljf Deed M j^r06f 16 these who
eoBskiery diat bribes an^ not coAfined to
noMy^ al»i that ^v^tj itum tl4i6 prtftasotes
IdioRMiaiiteivgtbthisdepeeitimi^ btwear-
ihg not for thith and jMice, but for
Dnnidu'
It aiajr be urged, tthd it k^ in my Mf-
iiioii,iA ttelt the moitfrititral itnaginatum
can niggeit in iavonr of thb mi^ thiit
they are not required to ieeiife the earl
ef OHM^ but to give In thdr evidence
eooetrniBg his coAdnct^ whMier in his
firvodr or against hini.
But this argument, my hnds; however
flpedous it fcliay ston, #01 irtankh Of itsdf«
if the Bfll be dOiflenUy OonsiderM, whidi
ii ottly to eonfer mdenmity on those, who
in the ooUrse of their eVMenoe shall dis-
corer any of their own crimes; on those
whose testhnony shall tend to fix some
fchaige of kickednesci on die earl of Of-
<bid; for it caniiol eteily be imagined
how those who appear m his fiivour,
lAoM be mider a necessity of revealbg
Itttfctions that reOuite an indemnity.
Thus, oiy lords,it mears that the Bill
cm produce Ho other etfect thAn that of
ttolt^ilvuig accusatioiis, dhce it oilers
Kvsrai only to ihOse who are supposed
to have eng^^ hi uiijustifiable practices,
SDd to procure witnesses by this method,
k equaUv nnjust as to propose a public
prise to be obtained by swearing agairiit
my of vour lordships.
If witnesses art! to be jpurchased, #e
ooght at least to oftr an equki price cb
cteh sidei tliAt though they may be m-
Aaced by the re#ard to ofkt their depo-
iitioiil, they may hot b^ tempted to accn^
rtther thail to justify.
Should any private man, my lords, ofo
a re#ard to any that irould give evidence
Hutat another, without ipecifying the
crime of #hidi he is accused, doubtlesii
he irodld b^ cotisidefed by the laws 0^
tUi nittion, as a violate of CHe rights Of
MKietj, an open slande^r, find a disturber
of mankind; and would immediately, by
an inditfrt^c or iiiifohnation, be Mig^li
to mKke satisfaction to the community
which hh had oifi>nded, or to the person
i^ih Mf had itiJkML ,
h h^ ihy lordii, I own, becM asteMd
by the noble dMte, that Ae public had
a ri^t to every man's evidence, a iptaid
which in its proper sense cannot be de-
tied. FMitili£hdotetedlythi^,thatthe
ptiilie Mari8h<t««(h« «hsiMMWW
k. D. mi ceM
every Individwd; but it is, my lords,
upon such terins im have been established
(or the general adfantage of all : on sudi
terms as the majority or each sode^has
prescribed. But, my lords^ the . m^otitf
of a society, which is tbe true definition
of * the public,' are eqndiy obliged wi&
diesmaUer number, or with inaividuds»
to the observation of justice, and cannot
therefore prescribe to difierent individuals
diflerent conditions. They cannot decree
that treatment to be just with regard to
one which they allow to be crud widi
lesptet to another. The dauns of the
public are founded, first upon right, whidh
a invariable; and next upon the law,
which^ thiiu^ muiiAle in its own nature,
is however to be so fltrfixed, as thatevenr
man nlay know his own condition, his
owh properly; and his own privileges, or
It ceases in efiisct to be Uw, it ceases to
be the rule of government, or the measute
Of conduct.
In the present case, my lords, die pu5-
lic has not aright to hire eridence, because
the piiblie has hitherto subsisted npoa
this eondltion; iaaokmg others, that ho man
sbidl swear in his own cause. Hie pub*
lie blip not ft right to require from aagr
man that he should betray hhnself, be-
caose every man may plead that he
is eatem^ted fieom that dCiniOnd by Ibe
public fiuth.
Thus, my lords, the riAt of the ptd»*
lie is oidy that right whidi the poUic his
established by law, and confirmed by cott'*
tihual claims ; nor is the datm of the pub*
lie from inditiduals to be extended beyond
its known bounds, except m ttmes ef
general distress, where a few must do-
cessarily snfler for the preservation ef
thereat.
This necessity is indeed now urged, bui
surely it ought to be shown that Uie m*
sent circoinsiances of afirirs difier mas
those of any former age, before it can
with any propriety be asserted, that inea-
sure* are nbw neoet^ary, which no other
distresses, however urgent, or provoca*
lions, however flagrant, nave hitherto pro-
duced. It ought to be proved, thit
wickedniess had diteoferea some new
! shelter firom justice, before new engines
ar^ invented to force it from its retreat^
! and new powers appUM to drag it out !•
pttnishmenf. •
The nation hail MMbied, nylordi^ m
many cenchri^ has ofkai reoorered firbaa
die ^^fhig diseaee of inward oorrup*
«9]
15 QEOBGE IL
IMaUiniheUhti
[696
i^iolenoe; it has often benebdaageredby
corrupt coiiDseky and wicked maehina-
.tiooB, and Burmounted them by the force
of its established kwa, without the assist-
.anoe of temporary expedients; at least
without expeoientB like this, whidi neither
.law nor justice can support, and which
would in itself be a more atrocious griev-
;ance than those, if they were real, «ihich
;it is intended to punioi, and might pro-
'duoe far greater evils tiian those, whidi
are imputed to him against whom it is
projected.
it has indeed, my. lords, been mention-
.ed by a noble lord, in much softer laa-
, guage, as a method only of making an
enquiry possible. The possibility of an
enquiry, ray lords, is a very remote and
ioo9easiveidea{ but names wdl not change
• the nature of the things to which they
I are applied. The Bill is, in my opinion,
calculated to make a defence impossible,
to deprive innocence of its guard, and to
.let loose oppression and perjury upon the
f world* It IS a Bill to dazzle the. wicked
with a prospect of security, and to incite
: them to purchase an indemnity for one
. crime, by the pernetration of another. It is
- a Bill to confouna the notions, of right and
wrop^, to violate the esseooe of our con-
• stitution, and to leave m without any cer-
• ^n security for our properties, or rme for
our actions.
Kor are the particular pdrts less defec-
tive than the general foundation ; for it
• is full of ambiguous promises, vague ideas,
and indetermmate expressions, of which
some hbve been already particularized by
. the noble lords that have spoken on tlus
occasion, whose observations I shaU .not
'repeat, nor endeavour to improve; but
cannot forbear proposing to the advocates
'for the Bill, one sentence^ that it may be
explained by them, and that at least we
may not pass what we do not understand.
In the enquiry into the conduct of the
aarl of Orford, every man, as we have d-
ready seen; is invited to bring his evidence,
and to procure an indemnity, by answer-
ing such questions as shall be asked,
^* touching or coneeming the said enquiry,
or relative thereto." What is to be un-
derstood by this last sentence, I would
willingly be in&rmed; 1 would hear how
Aa the relation to the enquiry is designed
to be extended, with what other enquiries
«it is to be complicated, and where the
jchain of interrogatories is to have an end.
When an evideeoe appeals before the
^f hoir Oft he be certain that
the ^pestioBs adcedt ar»<< iclatijva to the
enfmry ?'' How can he be cestain that
they- are such as he may procure an in-
demnity by resolvinff? Or whether they
are not unconnected with the pnncipal
question, and therefore insidious and dan-
gerous? And to what power must be
appeal, if he should be prosecuted alia-
wards upon his own confessioo, on ^^e«
tence that it was not *< rebtiye to the en-
quiry?"
Expressions likc^hese, my kirda, if the^
are not the effepts of maliqoos huny^ and
negligent animosity^ must be intended, to
vest die committee with id)solute autho-
rity, with the award of life and death, by
leaving to them the liberty to explain the
statute at their own pleasure, to contract
or enlarge the relation to the controversy,
to enquire without bounds, and judge
without controuL
Thus, my lords, I have laid before you
my opinion, of this Bill without any par-
tial regard, without exaggerating the . ill
consequences tliat may be foaied from it,
or endeavouring to elude any reasoning
by which it lias been defended. I have
endeavoured to. pursue the arguments of
the noble lord who spoke first, and to
show tliat it is founded upon ^ilse notions
of criminal iustice, tliat it propoees irra-
tional and illegal methods of trial, tliat it
will produpe consequoices fatal to our
constitution, and establish a precedent of
oppression.,
1 have endeavoured, in examining the
arguments by which the Bill has been ide-
feiuied,. to imow that the rights of the
public are ascertained, and that the powar
of the majority is to be limited by moral
considerations ; and to prove, in discuss-
ing its particular parts, that, it is inaccu*
rate, indeterminate, and unintelli^ibje.
What effects my enquiry may havjB had
upon your lordships, yourselves only can
t^U for my part, the necessity of dwelling
so long upon the question, has added new
strength to my conviction; and so dearly
do I now see the danger and injustice of a
law like this, that though I do not imagine
myself indued with any peculiar degree of
heroism, I believe, that if I were a»-
demned to a choice so disagreeable, I
should more willingly suffer by suc^ a Bill
passed in my own case, tJian consent to
pass it in that of another, .
The Dvkeo£Argi^:
My lords; X.^un not yet aUe to
^li^Gover that tho; Sill, now. beig»f:^ is
or]
m th* BUt to ittdemnify 'Evidence.
A. p. 174Ci
£«•
cither Okcil or t^mmA^ Aat iU iatevpra^
tation is doubtful, or its probable conae-
j^venom dangerous.
The indisputable maxim, that *^ the
public has a right to every man's evi-
dence," has been exolained away with
jDuch labour, and witn moce art than a
sood cause can often require. We have
been toldof poblic contracts, of the rights
.of society with regard to individuals,
.sod th^ privileges of individuals with
r^^pect to society ; we have had one term
opposed to aaoth^, only to amuse our
aaeatioo; and law, reason, and sophistry,
have been mtneled, till common sense was
lost in the confiision.
Bat, my lords, it is easy to disentangle
sH this perplexity of ideas, and to set
truth free from the shackles of sophistry,
by observing that it is, in all civilized
nations of tlie world, one of the first prin-
dples of the constitution ; that the pub-
lic has a right, always reserved, of having
recourse to extraorimnai^y methods of pro-
ceeding, when the happiness of the com-
munity af^ears not sufficiently secured by
the known laws.
Laws may, by those who have made the
study and explanation of them the em-
ployment of their lives, be esteemed as the
great standard of right; they may be ha^
hitually reverenced, and considered as
sacred in their own nature, without regard
lo the end which they are designed to pro-
duce.
But others, my lords, whose minds ope-
rate without any impediment from educa-
tion, will easily discover, that laws are to
be regarded only for their use ; that the
rer which made them only for the pub-
advantage, ought to alter or annul
them, when they are no longer serviceable,
or when they obstruct those effects which
ihej were intended to promote.
1 will therefore, my lords, still assert, that
the public has a right to every man's evi-
dence; and that to reject any Bill which
can have no other consequence than that
of enabling the nation to assert its claim,
to reconcile one principle of law with ano-
ther, and to deprive villainy of an evasion
which may always be used, is to deny jus-
tice to an oppressed people, and to concur
in the ruin or our country.
And fiuther, my lords, I confidently af-
firm it has not been proved, that this Bill
cm endanger any but the guilty ; nor has
it been fhown that it is drawn up for any
other purpose t^um that whicb the noble
jsid mentioned, pf hindering fmengoiry
from being .inyoisible; it nay themfiMv
justly be requhred from those who sffisol,
on this occasion, so mudi tendem^ for
hberty, so many suspicions of remote de« .
signs, and so much zeal for our constitu*
tion, to demonstrate, that either an enquhy
may be carried on by otiier means, or
that an enquiry is itself si^rfluous or im»
proper.
Though none of those who have spoken
against the Bill have been willing to ex»
pose themselves to universal indignation,
by declaring that they would gladly ob-
struct the progress of the enquiry ; that
they designed to throw a mist over the
public a&Irs, and to conceal from the peo*
pie the causes of their misery ; and thou^rh
1 have no right to charge those who di&r
from me in opinion with intentions, which,
as they do not avow them, cannot be prov^
ed; this however I* will not fear to affirm,
that those who are for rejecting this me*
thod of enquiry, would consult their ho-
nour by proposing some other equally effi-
cacious ; lest it should be thought by such
as have not any opportunities . of knowing
their superiority to temptations, that they
are influenced by some motives which they
are not willing to own, and that they aie^
in secret, enemies to the enquiry, thou^
in public Uiey only condemn the method
of pursuing it.
The Duke of NmveaHle:
My lords; the arguments which
have been produced in defence of the Bill
before us, nowever those who offer them
may be influenced by them, have made^
hitherto, very little impression upon me;
my opinion of the impropriety and illega-
lity of this new metnoa of prosecution,
still continues the same ; nor can it be ex-
pected that I should alter it, till those i^a*-
sons have been answered which have been
offered by the noble lord who spoke first
in the debate.
The advocates for the Bill seem, in*'
deed, conscious of the insufficiency of
their arguments, and have therefore added
motives of anoAer kind ; they hAve in^
formed us, that our power subsists upon
our reputation, and that our reputation can
only be preserved by concurring in the
measures recommended by the Commons ;
they have insinuated to us, that he who 6b^
structs this Bill, will be thought desirous
to obstruct the enquiry, to conspire the
ruin of his country, and to act in confix
deracy with public robbers.
But, my lords, whether the natioa i^
T9S]
15 QBORGE* IL
csandemtion has been so long and so jic-
0«rately debatedi that IkUe can be added
to the arguments on either side; and
therefore, though I think it necessary on
ao important an occasion to make a scwemn
declaration of m^ opinion, I shall endea-
vour to support It, not so much bjr any
arguments of my own, as by a recapitula-
tion and comparison of those which have
been already heard by your lordships.
It has not been denied, that the punish-
nent of crimes is absolutely necessary to
the public security ; and as it is eyident,
tiiat crimes cannot be punished unless
they are detected, it nuist be allowed, that
the discoyery of wicked measures ought
tto be in a yeiy great degree the care of
those who are entrusted with the govern-
ment of the nation ; nor can they better
diBcfaarae tibeir tnut, than by defeating
the artifiGes of intrigue, and blocking up
tiie retreats of guilt*
• This likewise, my lords, is admitted with
such restrictions as seem intended to pre-
^de any advantage that might be drawn
from the mearance of a concession ; inr
it is urged, tnat guilt is not to be detected
by any oiethods which are not just, and
that no methods are just whidi are not
The first position, my lords, 'I haye no
intention to contfovert; as it is not to
yiobte justice, but to preserve it from vio-
lation, that this Bill has been projected or
defended. But, my lords, it is to be ob-
aerved, that they who so warmly recodi-
mend the strictest adherence to justice,
seem not fully to understand the duty
which they urge. To do justice, my
lords, is to act with impartiality, to banish
from the mind all regard to personal mo*
tivesi, and to consider evenr Question in its
whole extent, without suTOring the atten-
tion to be restrained to particiuar circum-
stances, or the judgment to be obstructed
by partial affection.
. This rule, my lords, seems not to have
been very carefully observed by the most
vehement advocates for justice in the case
before us ; for they appear not to be sdi-
oitous that any should recave justice but
tJBie person mentioned in the BUI ; they do
not remember, that the public has cried
out for justice more than twenty years,
fer justice which has not yet been obtain-
«d, and which can be obtained only by the
method now proposed.
It is necessary, my lords, for those who
are so watchful against the breach of jus-
lio% to'prove thi^ any means can.be unjust
which have no other tendency Osn thede*
tection of widcedness, of wickedoeKioo
artful or too powerful to be poiuiliedby
the common rules of law.
The introduction of new methods of
prosecution, is the natural consequeDce of
new schemes of villainy, or new arts of
evasion ; nor is it necessary that prece-
dents should be produced, when thewiBdom
of the l^^islatikre concurs in acknowledging
the neces^ty of extraordinary mesBures.
Though our constitution is m the highest
degree excellent, I never yet heard thst it
was perfect, and whatever is not perfect
may be improved. Our laws, however
wise, are yet the contrivances of bunuQ
policy) and why should we despair of add-
ing some«diat to that which we inherit
from our ancestors ? Why should we ion-
gine, that they anticipated every contin-
gency^ and left nothmg for sucoeedbg
ages?
I think, my lords^ with the highest re-
gard both of our laws and those by whom
&ey were enacted, but I look with no lea
veneration on this iBustiioos assembly; 1
believe your lordships equal to your pro-
genitors m abilities; and therefore, noct
you cannot but outgo diem in experience,
I am confident that jrou may make iin>
provements in lihe fabric which they bare
erected : that you may adorn it with nev
beaaties, or strengthen it with new sap-
ports.
It cannot at least be denied, thst yoor
lordships have aO the power of yoor sd-
cestors; and since every law wts once
new, it is certain they were far frob ina*
gining that there was iriways a necessity
of enquiring after precedents* If the ar-
gument drawn from the want of precedents
be now of any force, let it be proved that
its force was less in any former reign ; «A
let it be considered how onr goremment
could have attained its present excellence,
liad this House, instead of applying to
every grievance its proper remedy, been
annised with turning over joomsh, sod
looking upon every new emergence for
prece&nts, of which it is certain that there
moat have been a time in which they v0t
not to be found.
In all reguhoions. establisbed bv the
legiskiture, it is sufficient that they do not
produce confosioii by being incossist^
with former laws, that they unite essuv
with our constitution, and do not tend to
the embarrassment of the machine of 9^
vemment. Hiis consideration, my iMtu,
,has been in a yiery vomndkaUt msawn-
705]
Off the Ba to wdmnify Evidence. A. D. I7i& * |7rx>
nrded bjr tboM wka drtir up dM Bill bt*
fore in; a Bill of which the BoUe duke
h» prove^* thtti it will be so ftr frooi per-
pienog our judidil proceedings* that it
vil) receocile the lew to itseUv end free 110
fnm the neoenitr of obeying one precept
by the neglect of another*
The aq^menli of the noUe duke are
aich an in mj opinion, cannot be an-
ivtredy or heard imparUaBy without con-
TictioD. The maxims quoted by him are
esdi of them ineontestibl^ true ; thev are
on this oecaaioD incompatible, and this is
the only method by which they can be re-
cndlra*
Nor has be onhr shown the propriety of
tfe Bill by irremigable reasons, but has
proved likewise, that it is consistent, not
only with the constitution of our govem-
ment, but with the practice of our ances-
tors; he has ahown, that it may be sop-
ported, not only by reason, but by Bills of
theMme kind, enacted on occasions of &r
lev importance*
He has proved, ray lords, all that the
nsitacnipuloas enquirer can wish; hehas
Bade it evident, that the Bill would be
mper, thoucli it were unprecedented ; he
m produced many precedents in support
of it, and baa thereby evinced, that the
ody present question is, Whether it b
JDBt^ To the precedents tdleged by him it
oil been objected, that they diffisr in some
particalsTB. But when, my lords, did any
tvo actaonSf however common, agree in
every circumstance? relations may be
complicated without end, and every new
complication produces new appearances,
wbidi, however, are alwi^ to be disre-
garded while the constituent principles
remain unvaried.
If we consider the difficulties in which
the opnooenta of the Bill have involved
thsmsdveo, it will not be easy to think wdl
af a cause, which gives birth to such wild
Mertions, and extravagant opinions* They
have first, by requiring preoedenta, deter-
mined that our constitution roust be hence-
forvard for ever at a stand ; and then, by
declaring lluit no precedents are of any
vei^t, m whidi every circumstance is not
pvaliel to the case in debate, have de-
barred us from the repetition of any occa-
aional bw ; they have declared, almoaf in
phia terms, themselves useless, and de-
stroyed that authority at once, which they
Mem so much afraid of communicatiBg to
^Commons.
, But by none of their arts of subtle dia-
^Mioii, tuf ipcdSy hate they been able to
[VOL. XII.]
•viale the argument whidi arises from die
oonfonmty of this BiU to the common
BracticoM our courts; an argument which
has produced no other answer than loud
declamations against the indecency of
compaHne with piekpodBeti nd highway-
man, a noble per4on9 a minister of acknow-
lodged merit, long graced with the favour
of his sovereign, and lokig invested with
the highest trust*
I, my lords, am very far from pleasing
myself with licentious or indecent law-
guage; 1 am fiir from envying any man
that exaltation which he obtains either
by food or bv bad actions; and havw no
inclination of leveUing the person, whose
conduct 1 desire to see examined, with the
profligate or infamous. Yet 1 cannot for-
bear to observe, that high rank is an ag»
Savation of villainy; that to have enjoyed
e favour of iiia aoverei^, is no defence
of him that has abused it; and that high
trust is an honour only to that man, who,
when he lays down his office, dares stand
an enquiry.
Had there been no precedent in our
judicial proceedmga, my lords, which bofie
any resemblance to this Bill, there would
not from thence have arisen any just ol^
jection. Common proceedings are eata-
bliahed for common occasions ; and it
seems to have been the principle of our an-
cestors, that it is better to give ten guilty
persons an opportunity of esci^iog justice,
than to punish one innocent person 1^ an
unjust sentence; a principle, whidi, per-
haps, might not be erroneous in common
cases, in which only one individual was hi-
jured by another, or when the trial was by
the law committed to a common jury, wha
mis^t easily be misled.
They miji^ht likewise imagme, my lords,
that a criminal, encouraged by a fortunate
escape to a repetition of his guilt, wonkl
undoubtedly some time M Into die hands
of the law, though not extended on por-
poee to seize hhn ; and therefore they con-
stituted their proceedings in such a man-
ner, that innocence mignt at least not be
entrapped, though guilt should sometiroea
gam a reprieve*
But in the present case, my lords, every
circumstance requires a difierent conduct*
By the crimes which this Bill is mtended
to detect, not single persons, or prtvaaa
fiimilies, but whole nations, and all orders
of men, have long been injured and op*
preaaed, and opmMed with auch success,
that the criminal has no temptation to re-
new hia praqtioas; nor i
[a 2]
707] IS GE0K6S II.
'of ao' eiToneoos sentence, became the trU
(«riU be heard by this House, by pei^oni
trhose integrity sets then above corruptimii
and whose wisdom wiU not be deceived by
' fiJse appearances.
This consideration^ my lords, affords an
ttnanswerable reply to those who reoresent
the Bill as ill concerted, because me evi-
dence to be procured by it, is the tes-
timony of men, partners, by their own
confession, in the crimes which they re-
•veal.
Every court, my lords, examines the
credibility of a witness ; and the known
' corruption of these men may be properly
pleaded at the trial, where your lordships
will balance every circumstance with your
known impartiality, and examine how far
every assertion is mvalidated by the cha-
racter of the witness, and how far it is con-
firmed by a corroboratory concurrence of
known events, or supported by other tes-
.timonies not liable to the same exception.
Thus, my lords, it may be observea how
quickly the clouds are dispersed with
'whidi interest or perverseness have en-
deavoured to obscure the truth, and how
easily the strongest objections which the
greatest abilities could raise against this
Bill are confuted, or how apparently,
when they are closely examined, they con--
fute themselves.
One of the objections that require no
answer is, that which has been raised with
regard to the extent of the indemnity of-
fend in the BiU, which, in the opinion of
those that opposed it, ought to be re-
-strained to particular persons. But that
it is chiefly, if not solely, intended to be
applied to those who have refused to
answer the questions of the committee,
I believe every lord in this House is
^lully convinced ; it was, however, neces-
sary to draw it up in general terms, lest
other artifices mignt have been employed,
and lest,by pointing out particular persons,
opportuni^ might nave been given to de-
•pnve the public of their evidence, by pre-
' vailing upon them to withdraw.
The Bill was justly styled, by a noble
lord, a Bill to prevent <' an enquiry from
being impossible.'' The difficulty of en-
3uiries for the public is well known ; and
lie difficulty arises chiefly from thein-
'ability of the people to reward their ad •
•vocates, or their evidence. The state of
-the- court, my lords, is very diffisrent; the
terown can not only pardon, but advance
that have on any occasion pro-
i its interest; and I hope it wiU not
DOateimiheLofdi
iTOB
be too nradi power to be fbr oncegnntsil
to the people, if they are enq>owendto
throw a simple tDdemnifieation into the
baknoe, and try whether with the diriit
addition of truth, and reaaoo, and jomce,
it wiH be aUe to weigh down titlei, snd
wealth, and power.
It has been nrged, that tfiere is danger
lest this Bill diodd become a precedent
I hope, my lords, the same occasion will
not ofiten hapj^ ; and whenever it thafl
hereafter OGCur,\the precedent of passing
the Bill will be ntudi lew dai^eroos than
that of rejecting it.
I hope it is not necessary to say more
on this oocaaton ; yet I cannot ibibear to
reinind some lords of tlie fatal consequences
which at critical conjunctares they hsfc
often dreaded, or appeared to dread, iron
a disagreement ot* this House with the
Commons. At this time, in whkh the na-
tion is engaged in war, when the whole
contment is one general scene of disconl
and confusion ; when the wisest eoonsds,
the fbrmest unanimity, send the most vigo-
rous measures, are appmrently necessary,
it might not be improper to reflect, bmr
unseasonably we shall irritate the Cooi-
mons by rejecting this Bill, and howjostlj
we sfaaU exasperate the people, by showing
them that tneir commaints and remon-
strances are of no weinit ; tliat they must
expect the redress of &etr grievances fifom
some other power; and that we f»efer the
impunity at aae man, to the luqipineis sad
samy of the public.
The Earl of J/a^;
My lords ; as there has in this de-
bate been very frequent mention of ex-
traordinary cases, of new modes of widced-
ness, which require new formsof procedure,
and new arts of eluding justice, which
make new mediods of prosecution neces-
sary, I cannot forbear to lay befive ^roor
lordships my sentiments on this question;
sentiments not so much formed by reflec-
ti(m as impressed by experience, and which
I owe not to any superior degree of pene-
tration intofuture events, but to subseqoeot
discoveries of my own errors.
I have observed, my lords, thatmeveir
cc^lision of parties, thsA occasion on wfaieh
their passions are inflamed, is always
terraeci an extraordinary conjunctore^ so
important crisis of sifiairs, eittier becsuse
men affisct to talk in strong terms of the
bnsmess in which they are, engaged, for
-the sake of aggrsindizing. theroselres in
their own opinioa and that of the woridi
709]
mtikeBUIioimkaa^Emdenee.
A. D. I74&
[71«
the pment clijcot tppem
greitett to their ti^t by interoeptbg
othefiy and that is imagined bv them to be
really raoet impcNrtant m itself^ bv which
their aim pleasure is most a&cteo.
On thesa extraordinary occasions^ my
lords, the victorious have dways endea-
voured to aeoure their conquaat, and to
giati^ their passions by new lawSy by laws,
area in the opinion of those by whom
they are proauitedy only justifiable by the
present exigeDce. And no sooner has a
new rotation of aSurs given the superiority
to soother party, than another law equally
uBiessonable aUnd equally .new, is found
equstty neoeaaary for a contrary purnose.
Thus laour constitution violated by both,
noder the pretence of securing it from the
attack of each other, and lasting evils have
been admitted for the sake of averting a
temporary dagger.
I have been too long acquainted with
mankind to charge any party with insin-
cerit|r in their conduct, or to accuse them
of aftcting to represent their disputes as
more momentous than they «|>peared to
their own eyes. 1 know, my lords, how
lughlv every man learns to value that
whicn he has long contended for, and how
wilyevery man prevailsupon himself to be-
lieve the security of the pubHc complicated
with his own. I have no other btention
in these remarks, than to show how men
are betrayed into a concurrence in mea*
aires, of which, when the ardour of oppo-
sition has subnded, and the imaginary
danger is past, they have very seldom
&iled to repent.
^ I do liot reoiember, my lords, any de-
viation from the establiahed order of our
coDititutaon, vriiich has not afterwards
frodaced ceoiorftein those that advised it.
have known maov endeavour to obviate
the evils that might be produoed by the
^cedents which they have contributed to
^staUish, by public declarations of their
'cpcalaace, and ackaowledgments of their
^nror; and for my part, I tdce this oppor-
^ty of dedating, that though I have
^fMPe thanoDoe promoted extraordinary
Bilk, I do not recollect one which I would
^ now Appose, nor oae of which 'oxpe-
f>>B^ has not shown me, that the danger
^ f«ater than, the benefit.
^ kave learned at. length, my lords, that
our coDstitution has been so formed by
^ wisdom of our anoeators, that it is able
^pvotea itself by ito own powers, with-
^.*Ay assistance fiMa temporary expe-
t^tiywhicbi lite some kindiamodi*-
omes in the hnman body, may give it the
api»earance 4>f unoommon vigour, but
which, in secret, prey upon its noblest
parts, and hurry it to a sudden decay.
But none of all the measures into which
I have seen paitiea [urecipitated by acri-
mony and mipetuosity, have 1 known
parallel to the bill which is now defended
m this House; a Bill which I hope we
shall have reason to term the wfldest
effi>rt of misguided zeal, and the most
absiird project that the enthtisiasm of fitt>-
tion ever produced.
The particular dausea d[ this BOl have
been already examined with great acute-
nesB and penetration, and have all beaa
shown to be d>surd or useless. I shaH
therefore only add this observation, that
the indemnification, however liberally €l^
fered, will be wholly at the disposal of
those who shall receive the examinations,
by whom, when such discoveries are not
made as Uiey may happen to expect, the
witnesses may be charged with reserve and
insincerity, and be prosecuted for vhosa
crimes which could never have been known
but by their own confession.
It IS not impossible, but that if the bait
of indemnification shall be found insuffi-
cient to produce testimonies asains^ the
noble person, a Bill of pains ana penalties
may be attempted to terrify those who
are too wise to be ensnared by specious
promises ; for what may not be expected
irom those who have already sent theit
fellow-subjects to prison,' only for refusing
to accuse themselves?
Nor can I discover, my lords, hoV the
most abandoned villains will be hindered
from procuring indemnity by perjury, or
what slial] exclude a conspirator against
the life and government of his mi^esty
from pardon, if he swears, that in a plot
for setting the Pretender on the -throne
he was assisted by die counsels of the earl
ofOrford.
It has indeed been in some degree grant-
ed, that the Bill requires some amend-
ment, by proposmg that the necessary
alterations may be made to such parts ot
it as shall luppear defective to the com-
mittee, whicn would indeed be highly ex-
pedient, if only some particular clanset
were exceptionable; but, my lords,' the
intention of the Bill is cruel and o[^res-
sive ; the measures by which that intention
is'promoted are contrary to law, and with-
out precedent ; and the origmid principle
is fiiise, as it supposea a criminal prtvioaa
to. that crime. /
711] ISGIOKGEIL
rivtiHi flfwuii iijuli'm iifc Din
It IS iimd as tbe
itttnt-by ibe advooitei for'th*
it flight to be pasaed to gratify the peopk.
1 know not, any lords, upon whtt priM»-
plei those who plead so earnestly for rigid
justice, can endeavour to infloeiica our
ilecttions by any other motives ; or why
tliey think it more equitable to saorifiee
any man to the resentment of the people,
than to the maiioe of any singlo petsoo ;
nor can conceive why it should foe thoagiit
■ksB criminal to sell our voices for popda>
rity than for preferment.
As this is, there&Mre, my lords, a Bill
.contrary to aM former kws, and inoonsist-
eut with itself; as it only tends to pro-
duce a bad end bj bad means, and vio>
lates the constitotion not to relieve but to
oppress ; as the parts, sinsly oeosidered,
•re defective, and the whole grounded
upon a fidse pfinc^de, it neither leqoires
#ny longer aebate, nor deserves any ftp-
4her eonsideiiation ; it is rather to be de-
Vested than criticised, and to be rejected
without any euperflueus attempt m its
The question being then put. Whether
the BiH should be committed ? It was re-
solved in the negative. Content 47,
l^oxies 10—57. Not Content 92, Proxies
17—109.
Protest agtdnst not eommUtine the BUI
to indemnify Evidences against the Earl of
Orford.'] Upon this, the following Pro-
test was entered on the Journals :
*< Dissentfent* MACOLxsnEtn.
1. << Because the rejecting of this
Bill, founded, as we conceive, upon reason
and justice, warranted by precedents, au-
thorised bv necessity, smd oalled &r by
the general voice -of the nation, may «p«
1^ a manifest ebstnietion to public jus*
tice, in the present gteat and important
case, and a most certain defeat of ii £)r the
future, in all cases of the like nature.
2. << Because it is an unoontroverted
maxim of the law of Enghmd, that the
public has a right to every man's evidence,
and yet, by die same laiw, no man is obliged
to accuse himsdf ; and as the accomplices
of guilt are frequently the only witnesses
of it, we conceive, that both prudence and
justice point out this method of hnpunity
to some, as absdutely neoessaiy towards
discovering Uie guilt of others ; and Hiere-
by dissolving those confederacies, which,
tojrined hy common guilty can ^nfy subsist
while they arcj. cemented by
[TB
apfsrehtsid this BiD ought to have psned,
in order to preserve the ri|^ of the p«A>-
lie, and the rights of individuala.
9. •< Because this Bill ia justified by
many BiUs of a modi atitMiger nature^ in
eases of much kss consequence to the
public, snob as the oases m sir- ThoDNB
Cooke, the masters in chmKery, sir Ho-
bert Sutton, Thompson, and othen, in
some of whidi, the persona indeamified,
in order to give their evidenoe, were, st
the saaw tiose, compeied, Qwlar severe
penalties, to give it* And as there is s
power not OMy of indemniljiiintt, btit rs-
warding, necessarily lodged w nte ooini,
in order to bring criminak to jnslioe, by
evidence known to, and within tbe rnm
of the laws, ao we apprehend, that in sn
en4|ntry after crimes, that nwr afiiM^ the
being of the whole, the peopfemne a ligk
to the ttiefftiott of that power with wludi
the legiskture is uidoubladly vested, to
come at such e^enoe as wemf uaice dist
enquiry eibotaal to their fiHetre seeorily.
4. ^ Because the legtshtose has exer*
daed this newer in asany initanoes,fe!stiDg
to naitioular branches of the teveme, is
oraer to prevent ftnuds, the peaons obd-
cemed in such finnds being not only in-
demnified, but rewarded ahw; and kubt
private utility of one coDupaDy,she)s0ds•
tore, by dw Mi of king George the Fnst,
after forbidding any PfrMB to hecencen-
ed in proraotmg «n iSast India CompsBgr
in the Austrian Netheriands, gives to osr
East-India Company a powerto prsseoile
by Bill in Chanoerv, or oouit of Bxole-
quer,any pemonwhem theyabaitmpect,
obligmg snch person to noake dimverf
upon oath, though such dtsoovofy siAjecli
himtoa.foirfoitore. As also for die better
discovery of Monies liie legidatuie bat
thei^t fitby an aot, 5lh of ooeen Aiioe>
to pwdon any person not only of tbe ^
lonv discovered, but of all other ftbiMi
he has ever been goiHgr o^ «p«i Ms mskias
a discoverv of two persona wIm dMS
thereupon be convicted of «ay'bui)risiy sr
felony, and that discoverer Is atelnm^
toaieward.'
5. •* Becausetlinn|ecttegAis1liUiM!f
prove a dangerous precedent ofiMeoO'
sequence to this ooiistitutien, ebes, when-
ever thk Mrtion shall be ipUtsd by s
wicked minister, these who sMl hm
served Inai in ddfraudiogaadeppMifttaif
the public, and In cnrraptfaig Miridiiak»
will be fumiriiea mUtk an eWMse ftrie-
ns]
ti awrfmmjft Jtiiidliiinr
dace hiiimtfi^ tad heMqrmjqrfrfA
a&ijibe planoBr of bis coanliy; naj^,
ve erai qppraheiid, that the TOJeotu^ of
thisBSI may he miieadentood by those
who cm aud^e any discovery, as if this
House designed to dlscooiage any eyi^
deuce whateuwier, that could afiBect the
penon whoae conduct the Secret Coai^
mittee vaa appoioted by the House ef
CommonSy to enquiry into. A minister
mty l;e removed ftom his phicei and not
from his power ; he nnivhe removed frem
both, and not from the fimwir of his
prince; ukj, he may be deprived of all
three, aadyot hie successor mair think his
aoterest and fotare safety, and his prince
my imsgine his aulhonty> concerned in
protecting him from either punishment or
emjuiry. In any of which cases all written
evidence, all office prooft, will be secreted
orrefuied; and if verbal evidence be ren^
dered improctacable tao ^which the re-
jecting of Ais Bill witt^rmsh a precedent
for) we conceive we might as weU have
paned an act of indemnity to all lature
loiniicere.
6. ** Becaoaewecan by no meansa^ree
to the atgoment prindpalty urged against
this BOl, that there were net prooft of
f[ttilt sgaoist tins person sufficient to jos-
ffly the passmg it ; whereas, in e«ir humUe
opinions, the voice of the nation, the sense
of theodier House, and the laraeatabteei-
tostioo of thia kin^om, both at home and
abroad, create suspicions whidi not only
josdff, but even call aloud for enquiry;
whicn enquiry must necessarily prove m-
effectttsl, unless the proper Tnethods are
taken to support it, of which we appre-
hend this BiB io be one, imd a pioceeding
so jatt, that no innocent man would desire
to avoid ft, and no guilty one ought to
oeape it Moreover the reasons assigmd
by the penons wliose behaviour gave rise
to this Bin, for recusing their evidence, is
a toffident implication that it' would aftct
the earl of Oi4brd, since ^ey admit it
would afect themselves.
7. *<BecanSe we conceive that the re-
jecting thit B91 may cnsate gveat disafiec-
tioD in the nation, to the diminution of the
credit, end tronsequently of the authority
of this House, wlmi Ihe people find them-
"fives disappointed in their just emecta*
^om of havuig a strict enquiry made into
the conduct of Ae eari of Orford, which
^ Imve so long called fer in yain, and
hoped they had at last obtained^ Groaning
^'^tothe undluimiBfaed toad- of natluuiu
^^ and i«ies» «ie«ii(chit«sdhig a long
A. Di rmi [Tift
paaoa ; tieadding uador the levtoia af mul*
tipliad penal btws; deploring their sacci*
fk:ed honoiHr,aiid theirneglected interesta;
the balance of Eumpe overtiimed abroad,
and the coostitotion endangered at home;
they caU ier enquiry ; they seek fiir jaa*
tioe; they hope lor redress: the other
House has taken the proper slepa aaaas war
these espOctatioDS ; the enqoky bfgtm
there could only have been rendered eC-
feotoal in one material pobt hw thifrBitt;
which being rqected bjr this ifouse, from
whence thej^ expect lustioe and radresa»
we fear their blasted hopes, which, for a
time, may seem sunk into a slavish despon*
dency, may SA last break out into disocoeiiy
more easy, possibly, to foresee than to i#>
mBdY^*''—'fSieneij Denbigi, Chestei^
field, Oxford and ft^rtimer, Ba-
tiiurst, Ward, Thanet, Foley,
* Aylesford, Westmoreland, Abing-
don, Berkshire, Gower, Northamp-
ton^Boyle, Coventry, Rockingham,
Greenwich, R. Lincok), Dunk*
Halifax^ Craven, Faknouth, Bed*
ford, Cobham, Carli^, Aj^^bory,
Sandwich, Litdifieki, Beaufort,
ShaftcA>ury, Leigh, St. John, Ha*
versham/*
It was then ordered. That the said Bill
be rejected.*
>• MllMM.a.M.. ■ ■ ■„ • 1,,,^
* ** NotwithstaiidiBg the late daanonr sffainst
the earl of Orford, the rejecting thisBiflwaa
eennidered by the public as a material piece of
jostioe. The Secret Committee had disap*
pointed the enemies of the minister, hy the in*
signifioanoy of die dtsoovenes diay had made ;
aira the inmense soma wbich be had bestowed
0|M>n Writeia and print«t8,.in deface of his ad«
ministration, though very clearly made out,
was treated rmfber with ridicule than detesta^
tion. Neither bis friends nor his enemies were
tenerant that easiaess of aatore was his chief
IttiliDg, and, to that, this nnseaBonable liberality
was atnibuted. As to tbe Afreet chai^ against
him of corruption at elections, all the industry
that bad been employed, could bring out very
little agahist him ; and that too was so very ili*
sopported, thsl it did not amount too direct
charge agriost htui. Some doubiful fact»,
with re^id to a contract, for paying the troops
in Ameriea, were urged, and the names of Bar^
lel, Bristow, and some other members of par*
liainent, were brongbt io qneotion, but nothing
could be fixed etther npoa them or the minister,
that was so maeh as reprehensible. Some
dodinas about the corporation of Weymouth
bore the worst aspect a(|alnst him, bet when
they are candidly considerod, they are very
imrosterial, amounting to no more than that
asmeoffieen of the leveoae m Wevmouth were
turned out m order to serve twaiiieads of the
716] 15 GBORGK IL
Debate m the Cdmmam on Ae RefeeHen
fy the Lards tfthe Bill to indemnify Erd-
dence* against Robert Barl ef Or/ord.*']
Maj 96. A motion bemg made bv lord
Hiltboroiiffhy and seconded by lord Bar-
rtngton, tor appoinUnff a Committee to
aeaScb die Journals of we Hoiue of Loidfy
as to what proceedinn are therein, widi
T^Iation to the Bill, intituled, <« An Act
fer indemniffing such peraons, as shall
upon examination make oiscoveries, totch-
ing the disposition of public money, or
concerning the disposition of offices, or any
^payments or agreements in req»ect there-
mioisler at the general dcetioD. 8e pet^ an
abase, if it was an abuse, of power, ne? er bad
been animadferted upon in other reigoa against
the meanest servant of the crown, hut wis now
awflled in the report, made by the Secret Com-
mittee, into aaslmost capital cbarcre; bgtwben
it became pnblic it wss disr^ganl«d." Tindal.
Debalemike CosuwaiBi on ih Hydioa [718
of, orconcerakur other mattew^rehtiBgte
the conduct of Robc^ end of Orford, and
to make report thereof to the Home," the
same was agreed to: On a diniioD, Ayei
16^, Noes 159: And a committee ws
appomted acoordin^y.
May 27* Lord HiUMVoiigh hsvm|
made a report from the said comntttee,
a mption was made by lord Stnnge,8Qd
seconded by imd Quarendon, ** That the
Lords refusing to concur with the Com-
mons of Great Britain, in an indemnifica-
tion necessary to the effisctual csrrybg oi
the Enquiry now depending in pailiameDt,
is an obstruction to justice, and may prove
fatal to the liberties of diia nation.'' Tlui
occasioned a warm ddNite,* in wfaidi.
follows f
« «« The rejection of the
Bill by the peers gave great an
wbo really remained in the anti-ministerial
party, and tlicy resolTsd to mske a trying mo-
iiso, wbich saoold put tbe intentioos of the
new ministers in the seeret Committee entirely
out of doubt For on the setb of May, the
very dsy after tbe Bill had been r^ecM by
tbe LoMs, a motion wu made in tbe House of
Commons, *< That a committee should be ap-
Minted Id search tbe Joomals of tlie Hoosaof
jLords for precedents in relation to the foresaid
Bill.*' As the whole icope of ihts motion was
not understood by all the House, the motion
was carried by a majority of 164 against 159,
and a committee, which was to make a report,
was aeoordinaly appointed. Tbe report being
next day made by lord Hilsboroogb, a motioB
ensued, ' That the Lords refusing to oonour
with the Commons of Great Britam, in an m*
damnification necessary to tbe effectual carry*
hig on tlie enquiry now depending in parlia-
ment, wss aa obstruction to justice, aad may
proTo falsi to tbe liberties of this ostion.'
When tbe temper of tbe people of England,
at the time this motion was made, is diyly
weighed, it 'is hsrd to say, what the oonse*
cmence mif(ht have been, had it nicceeded*
The new niioistert, who were in tbe secret of
aiairs, were somewhat at a lorn to oppose it
dceeotly, as tbey had been industrious in do*
daring, that the indemnifioalion was absolutely
neossmry. A long and a sharp debate ensued,
and the new ministsra declared themselves
Strongly agaioat the motion, whilst the coun-
try-party supported it with equal keenness. It
happened fortunately tliat some of tbe Tories in
tbe House did not tliink matters had gone so
for as to make it nsceseary to agree toa motion,
whKh might throw the public into convulsions,
and therefore voted against it, by which it was
lest" Tladal^ -w •» J
Lord Hilsborough spoke \
Sir; When the nation has been op-
pressed and plundered by a wicked mi-
nister, or when there ts a ^neral suipi-
cion amoni^ the people that it has been so,
public justice requires, that the conduct
of such a minister should be fully sui
strictly enquired into, that he may be cos-
dignly punished if {[uUtjrt or his dttracter
cleared from auspicion if innocent: an4
when in the coune of that enquiry it ap-
peara, that he has been ao cunning ss to
prevent its beiog posuUe to cany it on
with e&ct by the laws m being, such nev
laws ought to be made as may appear ne-
cessary for attaininjK that end. Tbattbexe
ia a general suspicion againat our kte mi*
nister, I believe, no man can be ignorant
who haa ever been in any coffiBO-hooie, or
other place, of public reaort, frequented by
those who dai^ avow the aentimenti of
their heart ; and from the fiite of tbe Bill
which, we now find, has been rejected br
the other House, I am convinced, that
those suspicions are well grounded ; for it
18 impossible to suppose, that auch a Bill
would have met with such an oppositioB io
this House, or such a fote in tne other, if
the condu^ of our late minister had been
blameless.
As the nature and the necessity of that
Bill were fully explained, and made evi-
dent to a majority of this House in the de-
bates that hsfipened upon it here, I have
no occasion to repeat what was said upon
either. The Bill was ahewn to be of such
a nature as could do no preiudice to aov
innocent roan ; and it was demonstrated,
to a majority at least of this Hous^ thst
without sudi a Bill being passed into a
« From the Iiondoollagiainc
m]
of the BiBJbr indemnifyitig Evidenei*
A. D. 174C.
[718
kir, it wiooU be iiniMMBible for oar Secret
Committee to make any disc^oveiy, even of
these criraeSi which frotn the obstinacy of
MMiie cf the penons ezamiiled by theni|
there is too good a ground for supporing
to have been committed. It is therefore
evident, Uiat by this Bill being rejected by
the other House, the course of our enquiry
is obitructedy and the people for this ses*
lion at least disiqppmnted of that justice
they had a ri^ht to expect from |>arlia^
nent. Bat this is not all : the rejecting of
tfaii Bill will be attended with conse-
quences, which in a two-fold respect must
be dangerous to our constitution. It will
make ue oeople begin to despise parlia-
nents, and d^pair of ever meeting with
any relief from them ; and it will make all
future ministers more darine in their at-
tempts to overturn the freedbm and inde-
pendency of parliament If any minister
ihoold ever succeed in such an attenipt,
the people would certainly, in a very
ihort time, have reason to hate parlia-
laents: nay, they would prdbably join
with the prince in laying them entirely
ttide ; for an absolute government, without
aoy form of liberty, is certainly better and
more toIeraUe than a government sup-
ported by an assenibly ofmen, who, under
pretence of being the guardians of public
jiberty, take every opportunity to betray
it, and serre for nothing but that of making
the government more expensive, and the
prince more arbitrary.
We have, it is true, in this session made
KRne steps towards preventing this fatal
cQiuequence: our having established a
Secret Committee ; our havins named of
that committee a set of gentlemen, most
of. whom were generally approved cf by
the people ; and our having passed the In-
demnifying Bill for rendering their enquiry
effectual, are prooft that we were in ear-
nest : bat I wish our endeavours had been
awre vigorous and speedy; for consi-
dering that we might have easily foreseen
'od prevented what has now come to pass,
1 am afraid, lest the people should suspect
the integrity of our intentions. They
^J perhaps imagine, that we knew our
eoomrj would be ineffectual, without an
Indemnifying Bill for encouraging accom-
Cicesto become informers ; andthat we de-
yed the bringing in and passing that Bill,
till after we had passed the ^futiny Bill,
^d granted all the supplies, that it might
hetafely rejected. by the other House.
&ch a supposition may -at this time be the
■Aott probably made« because it is well
known, that some Bills have been lately
passed in this House without opposition,
and* perhaps, with the concurrence of
some who were, in their hearts, against
the BiO, for no other reason, but because
they were sure of the Bill being rgected
by the other House.
1 am (ar fit>m saying. Sir, that there
is any real ground for such suspicions ; but
they are such as may be entertained, and
they are such as we ought in duty to our-
selves, and for the sake of the character
of this House, to endeavour to prevent.
In this session we cannot, I think, take
any other method for preventing it, than
Sf declaring openly our sentiments of diis
ill being rejected by the other House ;
and theraore I have prepared a motion^
in which I cannot doubt of havmg the
concurrence of the House. I know I am
not to expect the concurrence of those
who declared against the Bill, even when
it was passing through this House ; but
aa it was in every step carried by a ma-
jority, and as every gentleman, who was
a real and* sincere niend to the Bill, must
be of opinion, that the rejecting of it is an
obstruction to justice, and of Ae moat
dangerous conse^ence to' our 13)erties,
I shall, and I think I may with hopes of
success, move you to resolve, ** That the
Lord^ refusing to concur with the Com-
mons of Great Britdn, in an mdemnifica-
tion necessary to the effectual carrying
on the enquiry now depending in parlia«
ment, is an obstruction to justice, and
may prove fatal to the liberties of this
nation.'*
Mr. Sandy* :
Sir; I hope no man doubts of my
inclination, or my sincerity, in canying
on the enquiry that has been set on foot,
or in being a friend to any thing that has
been proposed for rendering it e£kctual :
and yet I cannot agree with the noble
lord in the motion he has been pleased to
make to you, because I think it has a
very different tendency : in my opinion,
it would bring on an immediate oissolu^
tion of our present form of government ;
for af^er our agreeing to such a motion,
I should expect, that the next motioa
would be, to vote the other House useless,
and that it ought therefore to be laid aside*
I disapprove, as- much as any man can do,
of the conduct of the other House, in re*
jecting the Indemnifying Bill we sent up
to them, because I Uiought such a KU
necessary for obtaining justice to anatioa
15<3EOSGBn. J)etiaektik9C<mmmona^RfieMm [7S0
poodanee wkb ii*» w to rtcrivc tarmes*
sfige> or to jr Bill from tUs Home or Com-
moiit. Tm would hy his majerty under
0 nece«ity of disioWkig the preseot par-
liattODt; and if o new House of Cwt-
mooe should be chosen of tho ssme com-
plexioD, tbey wodU. prahaUy revive the
ceDSHre of their predecessony which would
bring his nia|e8ty under the necesstly of
governing without a parliament: A De«
cessity imich would, I am sure, be looft
disagreeable to h]m» and a necesrity which
miffht be of fiital conaeqnence to the
that has» in-nw opinion, been greatly in-
jured; but though I disappreve of tho
conduct of the other House in this oar*
ticuhur, I do not for that reason think il;
ought to be laid aside, or that we hav^
any right to pass a censore upon it. The
Lords are senerally. called the upper
House of Parliament, and though it is not
from thenoe to be inierred, that they are
superior to us, yet it must be allowed,
that they are quite independent, and have
as good a right to refuse any Bill we send
to them, as we have to refuse any Bill
they send to us ; and wo cannot surely
pretend to censure them for making use
of a right which we acknowledge to be
inherent in them.
But suppose, Sir, wo should agree to
censtire the other House for what they
have done, without pushing our resent-
ment fiurther, our censure would do more
harm to ourselves than it could do to
them, because it would bring us into con-
tempt. Those who have no power to
punish, should always abstain vom cen-
suring, because it makes their wnnt of
power be taken notice of; and as soon
as their want of jfower cornea to be geno>
rally known, their censures will become
ridlculoQs. We ought not therefore to
agree to this motion, without first resolving
to push our resentment farther; and I
do not cee how we can do so. We suc-
ceeded once, it is. true* in voting the other
House useless, and consequently laving
them entirely aside, but we ib^an had the
army at our command, which we cannot
now pretend to ; and if we had, the con-
sequence of that proceeding can be no
great encouragement for practising it a
second time ; for that vei^ army which
enabled the Commons to turn the Lords
9ut of doors, afterwards assisted their
general in turning the Conunons out
of doors, and supported him in the ex-
ercise of a most arbitrary and tyrannical
power over these three kingdoms during
all the days of his life*
The &te of these king^ms at that time.
Sir, should be a warning to latest pos-
terity, to beware of attempting any thing
that may tend to introduce confusion, by
overturning a reigular and well established
government, which, in all appearance,
would be the consequence of this motion
being agreed to, even suppose wo should
proceed no fiurther ; lor after our having
passed such a sewere censnre upon the
^Cher House, it would be inconsistent
trtth theic hoiMmr to have spy cones*
nation, because it would prohaUy be at-
tended with a civil war.
These consequences, I diink. Sir, m
most justly to be apprehended froa os
agreemg to tliis motion; andtfany locb
oonsequenoe should ensue, would it not
put an end to all parliamentary en^vicSf
either in this or any future sessioD of par-
liament? Our committee may not, p&-
haps, be able to make such ample dis*
coveries as they misht have nsde, had
this Bill been passed mto a law ; but nooe
of them have as vetsaid, they csn mab
no discovery. Tne contrarv might, per*
haps,, be made qipear ; and they majia
this session make snch farther dacomis
as may induce the other House to agree
to a new Bill, of much the same purport
with that they have now rejected. But
suppose this should not be the case: sud-
pose no material or fiiU discovery A(m
ne made durine this session : the enquiry
may be revived, and a new seaet com-
mittee appointed, as soon as we meet m
the next ses«on: The same Billmsytheii
be revived, and sent up to the ether Hotse
at a time when it would be dangeroos for
them to disagree to it ; or a new Bill mar
be contrived* which, in my opimoo, would
be the best method; and as we doit knov
the objections they made to our former*
we may ibrm our new Bill io audi a
manner as to obviate dl those objectioiiSi
For these reasons. Sir, I cannot job a
assertmg expressly, thai our Iste BiH
being rejected is an obstruction to justice:
because I am not sure of oar being qoitt
uiiable to ccme at justice without that 6iU»
and because if we do not come at it io m
aessaon, we may in the next; but abouid
this motion be agreed to, I am sure, ve
can never come at justice in a jMrliameQ-
tary method, either m this seetion or tbe
next, nor, perha^ in any fiitore. »
would, inmyopinmn, ttaavoidsbly» p^
ducen civil war; and this surely n an
«vent which ought as att tioiea to l^
8
^m J^J^ MmrAfyiAg Ex>iienc&. A. t. HA [729
it is well known. Sir, withont doors as
well as within, that 6 ne^ minister gene-
fally endeavours to cast a slur upon the
administration of an old one, in order to
add a lustre to his own, and to gain a little
applause at the beginning of his reign ; but
he always fakes care to prevent the for-
mer's meetins with condign punishment,
lest he should thereby prepare a rod for
his own back ; for it is ten to one but' in
few years he may deserve punishment as
much as his predecessor. It is likewisjO
well known without doors as well as with-
m, by whose eloquence and advice our
Bill was rejected in the other House ; an^
considering their intimacy and connectioa
with some gentlemen in this, who appear-
ed to be strenuous advocates for the Bill,
people already begin to suspect that the
ItiVtet had some sort of fore-knowledge of
iht fulte of the BiR, which gave them aa
opp6rl!unity of gaining a little popularity
mr deehiting for a Bill which tliey were iii
ffieh* Aeatts against; because if it had
be^' pass^ into a law, tiiey were afraid,
iV would h^e brought to h'ght such a'
seetie ef iniquity, as would have put it out
' of their power to prevent the criminal'tf
meeting with condign punishment. Sucl^
sr su^pidori, I say, has already arisen, and
if by meaitt of those gentlemen this motion
should mieet with the same fiite in this
House, aft our Bill met with in the other,
tftlit sufq^icScm wiR be confirmed.
I tm surprised, Sir, to hear gentlemen
My, that IT this motion should be ^eed'
ifo, tfeey sliould expect its beidg followed
1^ another motion for voting the House of
Lordi useless. Surely, I may tell a man
he has done wrong, without any design or
desire to murder him. On the contrary,
if I am really his friend, I ought to tell him
my opinion, in order to prevent his doin^
the like for the future, especially if his
safety as well as his character should de-
pena upon his doing so no more. This
Sir, is reallv the case at present betwixt
us and the House of Lords. That House
has done wron^: the hon. gentleman him-
self says he thinks thev have done wrong:
I think so as well as he: he is fbr smo-
thering his opinion, and thereby sacri-
ficing his friendship to his complaisance :
I am for 'telling them bluntly what I think :
pray, which of us is the truest friend to
that House ?
Sir, in all cases that will admit of it, I
shall be for treatmg my friend with com*
plmsance ; but in a case where his safety
or character is concerned, complatano^
^ £3 A] .
ifiee^ ^AtfMsly guarded against, but es-
ptciiBy ill tke preiAit conjuncture, when
tile tM§ thd navigatkm of tlus island is
in datfj^ of beirig destroyed by one
power, aMUieliberaesof £urepeby an-
ocMr ; and thete by their skuation, genius,
and MeTiai, theWeaiosC constant and dan-
geronteiMMietf this nation has in Che world.
I acH tlWriefore convinced, that if the
two neible lords who made and seconded
this metion, had read and been well ac-
quainted wiA the history and constitution
of their countty, they would not have
effiered such a motion to your considera-
tion. Can tliey say, they have studied
ear JbiHnals with that attention which is
necessary for forming a complete idea of
^ the consequences that may enstfe from
such a sielien? From their youth i(is
hardly p&idtAe fb suppose they &ave; and
fhnntBi^ itn^wt^ atta^ment to the liber-
tiea sQM^ eonstitutien of i(heir country it is
evideart aaty have not ; fbr no oae that
kno#« ^kgttt can- stttoect thetti of any evit
mteaitiMiL I therefwe koee, itheh th^y
have dMteWfered what I have said, m^
what maf be ss&d by oAeT geMlemen in-
die d^bifte, that Ui^ wiH drop iSieir
itioti^i^; t&t though I im convi^ed, it
ma ineeH wHh ao success, y^t the' very
apyatfiltiiie of it upon oar J&\tiiM ni^y
pnAnea 9Sm« of the bad elfecfa I huve
mealtiontfd; md these, I hope, w'hen iffktf
afe atwiiied of them, diey will be' rcMy
and tmtiBg te prevent.
SU Join Hiad Cation:
^; I wotdd nee hate my old
inflBa^ sU/9^ Cveira^ainM lae, utougn lor^
medy fesr aMf fb ber of ^e same side with
aie, 1 s0^ I would not have him, nor some
ether geatfemen in the House, imagfine,
that ntf aian doubts' of tlk^ir sineerity in
the eAf^aal prosecution of the enquiry
wehavcfsel^eafoot; for I can assure them,
IhcM ara^ many without doors who now
beguk to dbabt of it ; But if a negative
Aoald fe pot upon this motion, those
doubts wffl Mr^t an end : most men will
dken be oonvfticed> not of their sincerity
but of fftelr'want of it; and therefore, if
those* gentlemett have any r^ard for what
is flild or thought of them, they will not
sHow diemselves to be fi^ghted by chime-
riea! dangers^ from vindicating tneir own
chaiaeters, as- well as the character of this
Rouse, from those aspersions that will cer-
taiidy spring up from the bad success of
our e*^dry occasioned by the rejecting of
[voilxn.3
7S3} 15 GEORGE 11. Dehaie
is treachery : I abominate it : I despige
the man ^ho, upon such an occasion,
would make use of it. This, Sir, is the
light in which the present question ap-
pears to me. The very being, as well as
the character of the other House, depends
upon their rejecting no more such Bills as
that we have lately sent up to tliem. It
ff^as not the army : it was not the Com-
niois, that put an end to the existence of
that House in king Charles the first's
time : it was their own conduct. By re-
fusing their consent to popular and neces-
$afy . laws, by endeavouring to screen
guilty ministers, they rendered their
Hous'e hateful to the people. This
enabled the Commons and tha army to
turn them out of doors ; and the generaPs
being in a condition afterwards to turn the
Commons out of doors flowed from the
same cause. If ever the like case should
^gain happen, the same cause may very
probably produce the same effect; and
therefore what happened at that time
shouUr be a warning to the other House,
its well as this, to endeavour at all times to
preserve a good character among the
people.
I shall readily grant, Sir, that at. that
' time there was such a spirit of republican-
ism and enthusiasm prevailed among the
people, that it was difficult for the other
House to preserve a popular esteem, with-
out sacrihcing our constitution both in
church and state; but this spirit had been
raised and propagated by the conduct of
those who were at that time our ministers;
and in all such cases common prudence
makes it necessary to yield a litue to the
impetuosity of the times* This sliould
make all ministers cautious of raising too
violent a spirit among the people against
them ; for when they do, it will always be
necessary for the parliament to proceed
against them with more severity than they
may perhaps deserve; and those of either
House, who have a true regard for their
sovereign, and for the constitution of their
country, will take care to remove and
punish a minister before he has, by his
conduct, converted the discontents of the
people into a spirit of disaffection ; for
when this happens, the example of king
Charles the first's reign is a proof of its
being almost impossible to confine it with-
in any moderate bounds.
This, Sir, I think, we are in some dan-
ger of at present, especially if it should
Begin to be generally thought without
doors, that both Houses of Parliament
in the OniMUmM (niAe tUjeOum fTOI^
have joined in acreeniog a guiky nanMer,
and in amusing the public with a ^^^
enquiry into his conduct. ^ The pneieHt
motion therefore, if complied with, mtif
answer, and is, I believe, designed fortt-
swering two most salutary puiposes; thtt
of letting our friends, the L^rds, (I hope L
may yet call them so) know th^ danger;
and that of rescuing this House from tbe
danger of becoming despicable in the eyoi
of the people. This motion, is so far fi^
being designed as a censure, upon the coo^
duct of the.othei! House, that itisdeai^
ed as an act of friendship. We certainlj
know the sentiments of the people bettei
than they can be supposed .to do; thec^t
fore we are, and, I think, we ought to tdl
them what we, and, I . believe, the &r,
greatest part of the nation, think of thar-
having rejected that Bill we so lately sent
up to them. This may prevent thekr
bringing themselves into that contempl,'
which a few more such steps as this wi|
certainly bring them into. Therefore s|
friends to them, as friends to our coostitB-
don, and as faithful subjects to oar soih
reign, we ought to a^ee to this motioB^
6ut suppose, Sur, it were tobelookei
on as a censure. Is not censure itieIC
sometimes the duty of a friend? Doei.
not the church censure or admonish befan^
she excommunicatea ? We are not by tUi
motion to excommunicate the other.
House ; and, I hope, they will not excooK
municate this, evep thoueh,we shooldL
agree to this motion. If uiey should, ai
we have the purse in our power, tkf
would find themselves no great gainers l^
the bargain. They are.8ufficiently seuhr
ble of this, and therefore we have no occs-
sion to fear their resolving to receive no
more messages or Bills from this Homt,.
Their honour could not be any way cod*
cemed jn the question ; because it tbcj.
took it right, they would take k m%
friendly admonition; and though tbef.
cannot recal what is passed, I hope, iiej
would for tlieir ownsakes take care to give;
us no more room for such a censure.
That thev have a right to refiue bbj.
Bill we send up to them must be acknoir-.
ledeed ; but that we have no right to find
fault with the use the^ make of that rigbt,
no man surely can with any reason pre-,
tend. May not a man makie; a bad as vd.
as a good use of any right he eojo)^!
And if he makes a bald use of it, m nd
every other man a right tosayhedoeib
and to censure him for so doing > Ceosoi^
Sir/ when it is just, though it proceedi;
f25]
of the BiUJar indemnifying Evidence
fiom no le^ authority, nor from any
nperior jurisdiction, wUl alvirays carry
puDishmeot along with.it. It affects. the
character of the person censured, and will
aiiect it more or less, according to the
juslice and weight of the censure. There-
fore a man who has no power to inflict
loy legal punishment ma^ censure, with-
out ruDning any risk or incurring con-
tempt. Nay, a man may often, for his
onm sake, be obliged to censure the con-
duct of his friend, in order to shew that
he had no share in advising, nor had ap-
proTed of that conduct, which leads me to
the other purpose this motion is designed
&r.
To vindicate the character of this House
from any reproach will always, I hope, be
considered as a concern worthy of our
atteotion; and considering tlie general
reproach that will certaimy be thrown
tipoD the rejecting of this Bill, I think it
concenis us highly to convince the world,
that we were no way privy or consenting
to its being rejected. The two Houses of
Arh'ament generally are looked upon, 1
hope there will always be reason to look
tipon them as friencu; and therefore, if
one does a wrong thing, and the other
does not openly disclaim it, an imputation
vifl fall upon both. This is the case in
private life, and this will always be the
case with two public assemblies that have
luch a connection together as our two
Houses of Parliament have, especially
irhen it is known that there is a close in-
timacy and friendship between the mem-
bers of the one and the members of the
ither. As to my own private concern, if
[had no regard for the character of this
iMembly, I might be perfectly easy ; for
nest of the lords of my acquaintance have,
D die most solemn manner, declared their
hsent to the rejecting of this Bill. But
have a concern for the character of this
louse : as a friend to the constitution, as
• dutiful subject to his majesty, I think
oyself obliged to have a concern for it ;
od thank God! no one, either of our
ew or old ministers, has such an influence
▼er me, as to prevent my expressing that
oncem and acting accordingly. I Uiere-
Mt think It is absolutely necessary for us,
pon this occasion, to take some method
ir convincing the world, that we had no
ire>knowledge, nor so much as a previous
upicion, that a Bill so necessary for dis-
Tvering the conspiracy, that has for seve-
il years been carrying on a^inst the
Krtiea of this xwtioii, by a mmuiter and
• A. D. 1742. £726
his creatures, was to be rejected by thd
other House; and as I can suggest no
better method than what the n%le lord
has been pleased to propose, I shall be for
agreeing to it.
The' other House, Sir, neither ought,
nor will, nor can resent it It is a liberty
we have ofben taken, and do usually take^
at conferences, to declare very freely our
opinion of theii* proceedings. 1 here is,
therefore, no danger of a breach between
the two Houses, and much less of a civil
war, from our agreeing to this motion;
but if a negative should be put upon it,
and an encouragement thereby given to
prosecute those screening measures which
seem to be alreadj^ concerted, I may pro-
phecy, that a civil war will certainly at
last be the consequence ; for, I hope, the
people of England are not so senseless, or
so cowardly, as to allow slavery to be fixed
upon them, under the form of a free go-
vernment ; which will be the consequence,
if the corruption practised by ministers is
never to be detected nor punished.
The hon. gentleman talks of what our
committee have done, or may do, and of
the other House bein? induced to pass
some such Bill as that uiey have rejected.
Sir, it is impossible from the very nature
of the thing : the hon. gentleman himself
shewed, in our debates upon that Bill, that
it would be impossible for them to make
any great discoveries, unless the accom-
plices were, at least, enabled to come in
and inform. Let our minister have been
never so criminal, we cannot suppose him
so weak as to have left any written
vouchers of his villainy behind him ; espe-
cially considering the long indulgence he
had, after he knew he was to be dismissed,
to ransack all the offices, and destroy every
paper that might rise up in judgment
a^nst him. We must therefore suppose,
that the rejecting of our Bill has put it
out of the power of our committee to
make any material discovery, especially
such a full discovery as will be necessary
for convincing those that have no mind to!
be convinced : this* I am almost sure, is
the case of a majority in the other House,
and, I am afraid of some in this, who ace
not as yet suspected of being in such a
case : and from the principle upon which
our Bni was rejected in the other House,
we must suppose, that while they adhere
to that principle, no discovery can induce
them to pass such a Bill. To encourage
informers, oy granting them a pardon as
to themsehiCiy Waa aaia to be unjust and*
783].
15 GEORGE II. Delate in the Cmmom m thetUfeetiom (TSt
fi
is treachery : I abominate it : I despise
the man ^ho, upon such an occasion,
would make use of it. This, Sir, is the
light in which the present question ap-
pears to me. The very being, as well as
the character of the other House, depends
upon their rejecting no more such Bills as
that we have lately sent up to tliem. It
was not tlie army : it was not the Com-
mo IS, that put an end to the existence of
that House in king Charles the first's
time : it was their own conduct. By re-
fusing their consent to popular and ncccs-
safv . laws, by endeavouring to screen
;uilty n)inisters, Uiey rendered their
louse hateful to the people. This
enabled the Commons and the army to
turn them out of doors ; and tlie general's
being in a condition aflerwards to turn the
Commons out of doors flowed from the
same cause. If ever the like case should
again happen, the same cause may very
probably produce the same effect; and
therefore what happened at that time
should' be a warning to the other House,
as well as this, to endeavour at all times to
preserve a good character among the
people.
I shall readily grant, Sir, that at that
time there was such a spirit of republican-
ism and enthusiasm prevailed among the
people, that it was difficult for the other
House to preserve a popular esteem, with-
out sacrihcing our constitution both in
church and state; but this spirit had been
raised and propagated by the conduct of
those who were at that time our ministers;
and in all such cases common prudence
makes it necessary to yield a litue to the
impetuosity of the times. This should
make all ministers cautious of raising too
violent a spirit among the people against
them ; for when they do, it will always be
necessary for the parliament to proceed
against them with more severity than they
may perliaps deserve; and those of either
House, who have a true regard for their
sovereign, and for the constitution of their
country, will take care to remove and
punish a minister before he has, by his
conduct, converted the discontents of the
people into a spirit of disaffection ; for
when this happens, the example of king
Charles the first's reign is a proof of its
being almost impossible to connne it with-
in any moderate bounds.
This, Sir, I think, we are in some dan-
r 'of at present, especially if it should
cgln to pe generally thought without
doors, tliat both Houses of Parliament
DCl
have joined in acreeniiig a guiUy nimiter,
and in amusing the pwlic with a tham
enquiry into his conduct. The nteseot
motion therefore, if complied with, may
answer, and is, I believe, designed for an-
swering two most salutary purposes ; that
of letting our friends, the Lords, (I hope I
may yet call them so) know their danger;
anddhat of rescuing this House from the
danger of becoming despicable in the eyes
of the people. This motion, is so far torn,
being designed as a censure, upon the con-
duct of the other House, that it is de^-
ed as an act of friendship. We certainly
know the sentiments of the people better
than they can be supposed to do; there-
fore we are, and, I think, we ought to tell
them wliat we, and, I . believe, the far
greatest part of the nation, think of their
having rejected, that Bill we so hitely sent
up to them. This may prevent their
bringing themselves into that contempt,
which a few more such steps as this will
certainly bring them into. Therefore as
friends to them, as friends to our coostita-
don, and as fiuthful subjects to our sove-
reirn, we ought to a^ree to this motion.
But suppose. Sir, it were to be looked
on as a censure. Is not censure itself
sometimes the duty of a friend i Doet
not the churdi censure or admonish before
she excommunicates ? We are not by this
motion to excommunicate the other
House ; and, I hope, they will not excom-
municate this, evep though. we should.
agree to this motion. If Uiey should, as
we have the purse in our power, they
would find Uiemselves no great gainers bjr
the bargain. They are .sufficiently seosi-
ble of this, and therefore we have no occa-
sion to fear their resolving to receive do
more messages or Bills from this Hoose.
Tlieir honour could not be any wav con-
cerned in the question ; because it they,
took it right, they would take it as a
friendly admonition; and thoo^ they
cannot recal what is passed, I hope, they
would for their own saxes take care to give
us no more room for such a censure.
That they have a right to refuse any
Bill we send up to them must be ackoow-
ledeed ; but that we have no right to find
fault with the use they make of that right,
no man surely can with any reason pre-.
tend. May not a man make a bad as wdl
as a good use of any right he enjoys.^
And if he makes a bald use of it, ban not
every other man a right tosayhedoe^
and to censure him for so doing ^ Censure,
Sir,' wheii it is just, though it proceeds
725]
of the BiUfor indemnifying Evidence.
A. D, 1742.
£726
from no legal authority, not from any
luperior jurisdiction, will always carry
punishment along with. it. It affects {he
character of the person censured, and will
afiect it more or less, according to the
justice and weight of the censure. There-
fore a man who has no power to inflict
any legal punishment may censure, with-
out running any risk or incurring con*
tempt. Nay, a man may often, for his
own sake, be obliged to censure the con-
duct of his friend, in order to shew that
he had no share in advising, nor had ap-
proved of that conduct, which leads me to
the other purpose this motion is designed
for.
To vindicate the character of this House
from any reproach will always, I hope, be
considered as a concern worthy of our
attention; and considering the general
reproach that will certaimy be thrown
upon the rejecting of this Bill, I think it
concenis us highly to convince the world,
that we were no way privy or consenting
to its being rejected. The two Houses of
Parliament generally are looked upon, 1
hope there will always be reason to look
upon them as friendls; and therefore, if
one does a wrong thing, and the other
does not openly disclaim it, an imputation
will fall upon both. This is the case in
private life, and this will always be the
case with two public assemblies that have
such a connection together as our twe
Houses of Parliament have, especially
when it is known that there is a close in-
timacy and friendship between the mem-
hers of the one and the members of the
other. As to my own private concern, if
1 had no regard for the character of this
assembly, I might be perfectly easy ; for
iQost of the lords of my acquaintance have,
in the most solemn manner, declared their
dissent to the rejecting of this Bill. But
I have a concern for the character of this
House : as a friend to the constitution, as
I dutiful subject to his majesty, I think
injself obliged to have a concern for it ;
>nd thank God! no one, either of our
Dew or old ministers, has such an influence
^er me, as to prevent my expressing that
KODcem and acting accordingly. I tnere-
bre think it is absohitely necessary for us,
apon this occasion, to take some method
[or convincing the world, that we had no
ore-knowledge, nor so much as a previous
^icion, that a Bill so necessary for dis-
'Overing the conspiracy, that has for seve-
^ yean been carrying on against the
iberties of ihia nation, by a mmifter and
his creatures, was to be rejected by the
other House; and as I can suggest no
better method than what the noble lord
has been pleased to propose, I shall be for
agreeing to it.
The' other House, Sir, neither ought,
nor will, nor can resent it. It is a liberty
we have often taken, and do usually take
at conferences, to declare very freely our
opinion of iheDt proceedings. 1 here is,
therefore, no danger of a breach between
the two Houses, and much less of a civil
war, from our agreeing to this motion;
but if a negative should be put upon it,
and an encouragement thereby given to
prosecute those screening measures which
seem to be alreadjr concerted, I may pro*
phecy, that a civil war will certamiy at
last be the consequence ; for, I hope, the
people of England are not so senseless, or
so cowardly, as to allow slavery to be fixed
upon them, under the form of a free go-
vernment ; which will be the consequence^
if the corruption practised by ministers is
never to be detected nor punished.
The hon. gentleman talks of what our
committee have done, or may do, and of
the other House bein? induced to pass
dome such Bill as tliat Uiey have rejected.
Sir, it is impossible from the very nature
of the thing : the hon. gentleman himself
shewed, in our debates upon that Bill, that
it would be impossible for them to make
any great discoveries, unless the accom-
plices were, at least, enabled to come in
and inform. Let our minister have been
never so criminal, we cannot suppose him
so weak as to have left any written
vouchers of his villainy behind him ; espe-*
cially considering the long indulgence he
had, after he knew he was to be dismissed,
to ransack all the offices, and destroy every
paper that might rise up in judgment
against him. We must therefore suppose,
that the rejecting of our Bill has put it
out of the power of our committee to
make any material discovery, especially
such a full discovery as will be necessary
for convincing those that have no mind to
be convinced : this« I am almost sure, is
the case of a majority in the other House,
and, I am afraid of some in this, who ace
not as yet suspected of being in such a
case : and from the principle upon which
our Bill was rejectea in the other House,
we must suppose, that while they adhere
to that principle, no discovei^ can induce
Aem to pass such a Bill. To encourag&
informers, oy granting them a pardon as
to iheiBsel^cs, was teid to be unjust and'
727]
15 GEORGE II. P€i9$e in the Commons on the Rejection [^
dangerous to innoceDce. Petty tfaievet
inay» it seems, be encourap;ed by a rewar4
as well as a pardon^ to inform against one
another ; but peat and public plunderers
are to remain mtrenchea in their mutual
danger^ from which no one is to be allowed
to escape, lest he should betray the secret
avenue by which alone his confederyitei^
may be come at*
Thisy Sir, was the principle, ridiculous
as it is, upon which our Bill was rejectp4
in the other House ; and while th^y ad-
here to this principle, can we expect they
will agree, either in this session qr th^
Dexty to any sort of indemnifying Bill i
To pretend to argi|iB n^en out of a ^^
principle, let it be never so absurd, is
ridiculous, because it is impossible ; if they
be obstinate they must be bet^t out of it ;
if they be mad they must be physicjced put
cf it. A strong purg^tioq^ I mean as (q
salaries and pensions, wou}d, I believei
bp the best method the nation coidd lake
for obtaining justice fropa parliament^ ^ot))
in this case and every like case that may
bappen hereafter. We cannot therefore
expect success for any such Bill, either la
this session or the next ; unless by agree-
ing to this question we shew that we i^ra
resolved to administer such a remedy, if
this principle be not given up by thosft
who are its present supporters,
How the non. eentleman comes to talk
of what may be done in the next session,
I do not know ; for, I hope, none of those
who iiave the honour of being his majesty's
counsellors, will advise him to put an end
to this session bj a prorogation, tiU the
iiation haf obtained satisfaction. A short
recess would, I knqw, be agreeable to most
|[^nttemen, but this we may be indulged
in by an adjournment as well as a proroga-
tion. Our committee might then sit in
the mean time, in order to carry on their
inquiries; and when we assembled ^g^in.
lye might proceed from where we H? off
at our last mating; but a prorqg^tion
will put an end to pur committee, ^d
oblige us to begin every thing afcfsjbL
^erefore, if this question should, be re-
jected, and ^ ^ put to this session bjf %
pror9gatiop, before the ijiatipn has obtt^iv-
^ any satis&ctipn, I am sure, ) sh^. oa^-
p^ ijko. pstice nor sati^^jpn ; no, ^or
the least step towiirds it, £coiii tl^ p^tr
tj^ssio^ of parl^ment, nor fyom a^ fe^
iioA o^ th^ p^;iamenfc^ uqjes^ th^ Bf <^-
me sh9uI4 bfe 59 1^19^^ a§. tq s^p 1^
^w change itff cWBteW^bj tfeww^
those whoso seats m^ lupfen to becone
vacated.
Lord Combur^ :
Sir > I was very much si^trised wUq
I first heard this motion made to you, sad
consequently was extremely curious to
hear what could be said in favour of sucb
an extraoi-diqary and unprecedented mo-
tiop. As soon as I heara it, I thought it
UQCoostitutional, dfingeroufi and useless;
and as I have a great re^irdfor tlie yoang
nobleman that moved it, as well as for
those ffentlemen that have ^>oke in lt« &•
vour, I have attended to the Rebate with
a sort of prejudice; waiting, and eves
wi^hii^, to near something saki tl)at might
alter the first impression it made upon me;
hut I have be^ very much disappointed,
for those impressions have been made
deeper and stronger, even by wh^ I have
heard in its favour. As our constitution
consists of three separate branches^ each
of which, while they are distinct ana inde-
pendent, will flways be a check for yt-
venting any oppression's being exercued,
or injustice done^ by either of the other
two, ^e very being of our qonstitutioa
depends upon preserving a distinctness sod
independency, and at the same tiipe a good
correspondencebetweep the threebraacbes
of our legislature ; a|i4 cooaeijueathr our
constitution would be destroyec), u this
mutual good cprrespondence shauld be in-
terrupted, or if any one of theaa diouldgaw
an influence, and much more, a power oc
jurisdiction, over either of the o^er twa
If wedes^n. Sir, that this censure sbauU
be taken notice of I^y the otly^r House, so
as to direct or ovevawe tl^ejr procedingf
upon an3r future occasion, the very design
is inconsist^t with our coo^tutw; ^-
cause it is a ^^sign to saint siicb ^^ vAor
ence over th^, 9^ will aestr<Of tbais iade-
peajcl^ncy, i^ipn wfai^ g4» (^stiUM)
subsists. ^!(^refoiPe,^^biRqei^ijira«M4
be ta^f n ^lotice of v^ U^e im/9^^ ^ ^
si^n it ^haui4> it i^ i^QQs|itm^flAaii' ^
ijf It is tp hg taken ni^ notioe^^ it k Mlf«i^%
bMtapitiaiumjr WW«n*X^ faf «wl»^
decentg^ \ believe it will b^ \a)fm ntfiifi^ 9^
by the othef |IoMSfi% ?M>t 11^ titiiei qmsr W*
design, t^ut m suf^U a^iWM)^ 9f ▼»*l«W
that gQ94 corre^op(}^Qa w«^ W^ m
^6| batw^e^ ^e tj^ Arnmi w* ^
»J
fftke Biaf)r iiiimiilbil^ XnHme.
A. D. 1742.
[W
Mr. CwimnMi
Sir; 9$ I yery peldom ipoak so lata
It night, I flafctf^r myi elf, tbat Uie Hqu««
qrill 93(C|i3^ me for oov doii^ it, eiqpe*
cially w I sball chiefly endeavour to ao-
swer the noble lord who spodce laat, and
the learned gentleman behind me ; though,
I think» aa that gentleman was an enemy
to ev^ry clause ya the Bill, now thrown
out by we other House, which was to m-
demnify those who were to give evidence
to the ae<^ret committee against the earl
of Orford, I should murder our time, were
I to ^pend it in obviating any objections
made by him, or any of his friends, iHio
have bcSen 4a uniform ai)d consistent with
tbemsalves, in the violent opposition they
have made to every tbin|; that tended in
the least towards promotmg the enquiry.
But aa to that part of his speedi,
wherein h^ thinks it pretty odd, thSit this
House should have a power to inspect the
journals of the other House, and asks,
what right we have to censure another
superior House of Fariiament? I have.
Sir, no less authority than your own to
asy, that both Housea of Parliament are
equal ; ana that we only exercise a power
our ancestors have used before. As the
ksroed gentleman has now and on other
occasions, taken a kind of pleasure in par-
bg down the powers of this House, I hope,
he will soon, for his long and implicit ser«
vices to his majesty, be sent hence to pre-
side in^ Westminster-hail, and take this
trite piece of advice thither along with
him; that it is the part of a good jud^,
not to curtail but amplify his own jurisdic-
tion.
Unless we now exercise tUa righl, and
lay the blame at the right door, e«ir con-
stituents will not think we have done our
atmost, an4 been in earnest^ in putting a
great state criminal &irly a» his trial ; and
nobody who reads that iniwitabte Protest,
signed by above thirty of their lordships,
can doubt but that some invisible influence
iiKisthav^qneiated on tva dikda «f the
House when they threw oui our juat and
rcascmahle BiU; which puts meia mind of
an account thei^ la, I think, in &thef
^ul, or s9Pe ether wi|i^ 09 the coaneiil
of Trent: ^ saj^s, tlial. the paai^a oesh
^»»4t fitfiW ^ Tia«* m a neuteal
p^d^aUtheWoiiea^amee^a^ aad
nhece ^n princf ^<m^<^ hima^lf daim. ans
^t tQ comje \ bqt» says tbe-writer, ( who,
this assembly ran so much in favour of the
Pope, that although he could not come
there himself, his holiness sent the Holy
Ghost thither from Rome every day in a
cloak-bag. I leave it to every gentlemaa
to make his own application of this story,
which the House, I see, is pleased to ve^
ceive more favourably than it deserves*
Even my friend near me smiles, who,
had he not now been in a very high station
in the Exchequer, would not nave ex-
postulated so roundly with the young lords,
as he calls them, who moved and seconded
this question, who, be says^ cannot yet
have read the history of their own coun*
try. What they said. Sir, plainly evinced
the contrary ; but the gentleman was so
much alarmed at the motion itself, that he
could not attend to what was said in sup-
port of it; but he goes on and says, the
other House will not bear it As to that,^
Sir, give oae leave to ask him, how they>
will help themselves i But, says he, what
is there that the Lords will not do or say,
when such aspersions are cast upon them h
I humbly submit it. Sir, that what ia true
cannot be called an aspersion : we do it
for our own justification; and pray, let
them take it for their pains. '
And then. Sir, as to the gentleman'a
prophecy, that his majesty, if the two
Houses differ, may diMolve the parlia*
ment : the king. Sir, will think twice, be-
fore he once dissoWesagood money-^giving-
parliament ; for if the present she u^ not*
please him, I will venture to prophesy,
that the new one will be far from mending
the matter. If such advice, or such un-
popular measures should ensue, I flatty
myself that instead of one, 1 should be
clmsen for three or four places, which^
would happen to many gentlemen ofsi*^
perior ment in the same way of thinking;
and many oUier country gentlemen witn^*
out doors, would fill the phtces of some^
who hear me, that might then be thoughi
too courtly in their present behaviour. Ir
ht^ve my reasons too for thinking,^ that the*
hon. gentleman's mterest with the crown-
is not v^ great : I am sorry for it i be^t
cause if it was, I hope and believe, that?
more popular measures would be pursued.'
But, Sir,, since we have lost euc Bill, I'
will be bold to say,, that unless we pua«
some stigasa u^^en that proceeding, eur
cemwittee of saesecy will be a eommitlset
ct ridicule;, and the noble lord whe ser*:
vmj wevthi^y and inde&tigaUy pacsides ia *
iti, awat sm4 q«o in miad oi the vmAx
Wl]
150EOA6E U.
Debaie on ihe Indemnification BUL [732
Riiturelf a king, cries out, * Ou sbnt raes
* gens d'armes i* The noble lord is my old
friend and acquaintance, and will forgive
me, I am sure, for blurting out so odd a
parallel; but I am really driven to say
any thing, and to think that, if this ques-
tion has a negative put upon it, he will,
notwithstanding his great abilities, be little
more dian a chairman of straw; and that
he will sit in great state, subject only to
this single inconvenience, that nd soul
alive wiu answer one single question he
asks him.
But I ask the noble lord's pardon who
10 worthily represents the most learned
body in the world, that I have been so
long without endeavouring to invalidate
the force of some of his arguments ; and,
indeed, his lordship's manner of saying
every thing is such, that he may say any
thing. He, Sir, is pleased to say, that
tiiere is an end of the constitution, if any
one branch of the le^slature is influenced
by the other ; and it is much stronger in
the case of censure.
If the influence were indirect or im-
proper, or if the censure were untrue or
unconstitutional, I should agree with his
lordship ; but in this case I may more
reasonably suppose, that the other House
has been under some extraordinary in-
fluence; and pray. Sir, have we not a
right at any time to expostulate, or de-
mand a free conference with their lord-
ships ? Ought they not even to lie under
the censure of the Commons, for rejecting
this our most necessary favourite Bill,
when the Committee declares, that they
cannot proceed without it
As to his argument, that it is not decent
to say this to the Lords, and asking what
^ood it will do us ? I insist. Sir, that truth
. IS to be said at all times, in all places, and
to all persons ; and as to the good, it will
vindicate the honour of the members to
their constituents: it will place the na-
tional odium where it ought to lie ; and
not only make their lordships cautious in
soreeomg state criminals, but make them
Aew a readiness perhaps to redress griev-
'•nces, and afraid for the future of giving
the like treatment to any public national
Bill carried thither by this House ; and,
Sir, ♦ * ♦ ♦ Desunt mUka.
As to his lordship's saying, that a pro-
tMt IS an act of the minority, I submit it.
Sir, as the act of thirty-two noblemen of
the greatest quality, figure, and fortune in
this country ; and as that House has exer-
^t^ that powes for many centuries^ with-
' out even assigning reasons to tiieti pro-
testations, so now they have for near a
century, subjoined one or more reasons,
out of which articles of impeachment have
been oflen framed, which I hope will be
the case at present, there having never
been,- in my poor opinion, a fitter time for
it ; nor a protest, for the printing of whicji,
as I am warranted by p^recedenU, I shall
presently move, that deserved more glo-
riously to be printed in letters of gold.
Upon the whole. Sir, I am for every
tittle of the motion, from the bottom of
my soul.
Lord Strange ••
Sir ; as it is now very late, and the
House I see a little impatient, I shall onlj
ask a noble lord who spoke lately, how he
thinks we are to prevent the other House
from doing injustice, if we are never even
so much as to censure any of their pro-
ceedings ? If they in any case do a mani-
fest piece of injustice, are we to take no
notice of it ? If we do take notice of it,
can we do so without condemning it?
This is now the case. They have done
injustice to the nation : they ha;re refused
to the whole people of Great Britain what
is never denied to tlie meanest subject
who has been greatly injured by persons
unknown, or aeainst whom he has not a
sufficient proon A pardon to any accom-
plice who shall discover, or come in and
^ve evidenceagainst the principal ofiender,
IS never refused to any injured person:
this the Lords have denied to the nation,
though it has been greatly injured, as is
Apparent from its present distress. Shall
we take no notice of this piece of injustice ?
Ought we not, for the sake of the people
whom we in this House represent, to pass
such a censure upon it as it deserves?
Ought we not to censure it for our own
sakes, in order to shew, that we have been
neither privy nor consenting to such a
manifest piece of injustice ?
Several other members, who had voted
for the Enquiry, declared, that though for
the satisfaction of the nation they wished
the Bill had passed into a law, yet th^
could not agree to this resolution, lest it
should create a breach between the two
Houses. The motion passed in the ne^-
tive by 24*5 agamst 19S.* Then a motion
* " This motion gave rise to 4 warm debate ;
and Mr. Sandys declaimed against it, as a step
that would bnog on an imnediate dii«»lttti<*
fSS] Report <mPrinii^ tie Commofu^ Joumab. A. D* 1?48.
WR8 oQadebj Mr. CornewaU^ that the Re-
port from fhe Committee,' appointed to
tearch the Jotumalsof the Mouse .of Lords,
with relatioD to ibe said Bill,, be printed :
kt this also passed in the negative^
Debate in the Lords on the BiU to fx-
dvde -certain Officers from being Members
of the House of Commans.fJ May 28.
— . — \ •
of Ibe present form of i^rerument, . h is really
mumg to see with u hat effrontery some.
iDencan shifl their mu^ims, and openly con-
tradict the whole tenor of their former conduct.
Mr. Saodys did not pass uncensured : be sus •
tiiDed tome severe sarcasms on his apostacy,
fivm sir John Hynde Cotton, who refuted all
Us olgecCioos : nevertheless, the motion pas&ed
in the negative. Notwithstanding this great
udstruction, purposely thrown in the way of
ibe eiK}iury, the Secret Committee discovered
lu&ny flatrrant instances of fraud and corrup-
tkio ID fvbich the earl of Orford had been con-
ttnied. It appeared, that he had granted
fnudiilent contracts for paying the troops in
die West ladies: that lie had employed ini-
quitous arts to inflnence elections : that for
Kcret service, durinflr the last ten years, he
kad touched 1,453,400/. of the public money :
titatai»ve 50,000/. of this sum had been paid.
to authors and printers of newspapers and poll-
iia) tracts written in defence of the ministry :
that 00 the very day which preceded his resig-
ution, he had sii^ed orders on the civil list
Rrenues for above 30,000/. : but as the cash
RmaioinjSf in the excliequer did not much ex-
CKd 14,000/. he had raised the remaining part
ti die 30,000/. by pawning thd orders to a
ba&lcer. The conimiltee proceeded to make
further progress in their scrutiny, and had al-
most prepared a third report, when they were
ioierropted by the prorogation of parliament."
feiollett
* from the Seeker Manuscript.
Uay 28. On the sec:on'd reading of the Bill
to exclude certain Officers from being
Members of the House of Coroinons.
Ikhetter.'f This Bill is the last and wretched
iDeihod of sonre gentlemen, to preserve the re-
Bttios of their sinkinsf popularity, of which it is
osier to dispossess another, than to acquire it
fbeoaelTes. They most bid adieu to it the
UMaat they have tasted the sweets of power
UNi profit The people will not be uotauffhtj
that a Court and Liberty are incompatible.
&a infioite number of persons have been inca-
NtAted for sitting in parliament within a few
years. One Bill debarred 99 of 100. Till
^, whoever was honest and able was capable
>f being elected. And the parliament hath
, t Mr. Stephen Fox, made a peer by the
itle of lord Ilchetter and Straogeways, oo
(731
The BUI to exdude certain OCcen from
being Membeirs of the House of Comment
was read a second time.
Report of the Committee appoikt-'
ED to CONSIDER OF PRINTING THE JOUR-
NALS OF THE House of Commons.!'
May 31. Sir Watkin Williams Wynn
reported from the Committee^ iqipointed
to consider of printing the Journals of
the House of Uommonsy and to n^rt
their opmion thereupon to the House^
That the Committee had considered of
the matter to them referred, and had di-
rected him to report what appeared to
them, together with the Resolutions of
the Committee thereupon, to the House ;
and he read the Report in his place;
and afterwards delivered it in at the derk^a
table: where the same, together with
the Appendix thereunto, was read; and
is as follows :
Report OF the Committee appoint-
ed TO consider of Printing
THE Journals op t6e House
of Commons.
The Committee, the better to enable
them to judge of the expediency and
utility of printing the Journals, directed
your clerk, Mr. Hardinge, to prepare,
and la^ before them, a State of the
Condition of all the Journals now in hia
custody.
Piirsuant thereto, Mr. Hardinge de«
livered in to your Committee his Report
in writing, wherein he gives an account of
the present condition of all the said Jour-
nals, from^ the first book called '< Sey-
mour,'' which commences the first year of
the reign of king Edward the 6th ; also,
an Account what Journals appear to be
now lost, with some observauons re^purd-
not iiicreased in reputation since. All these
Exelnsions amount almost to telling the elec-
tors whom they shall chose. There were but '
two derks in offices in the last parliament, land
there is bat one in this. Why is the present
Bill crammed upon yon so soon after the ra-*
jection of another to the same pumose? The
haste cannot be necessary : for the law is not to
take place these seven years. Lives there that
timorous person who dreads preroffative and
regal power nowf They are in the lowest
slate of their existence. The tendency is to the
democratical side of the conslitation. Throw
yoor weight iato the scale that datb llol pre*
ponderate.
Committed without a diriskm, and aftipr*
wards passsd withoni oppoiilion.
fSSQ 15 .GEORGE 11.
ing tbal loM, and the ftiturt picMrmtkiti
qf th« Jottmalfl; and likewite an acoouot
of other matters, vhich relate U> tevend
of the said Journals. Which Report is
hafetuito annexed.
Your Comaiittee tbereupon having di«
reoted several of the JeumalB tobebroii||ht
before Ihem, did find, upon ioapeciien,
that some were aknost illegible, and others
in some parta destroyed, or defiu^d by
Hsildew.
They then proceeded to take into oen-
aideratum the amount of the enpence of
printbg the said Journals, what additions
might be necessary to render them more
useful and perfect, and what mkht be
the most proper method of defraying
the expeuce ei the whole work.
. Mr. John Grover, pne of the clerks in
Mr. Hardinge's office, being examined,
sittd, That he had inspected all the Jour-
nal-Books in the custody of your clerk,
and had computed what number of words
was containdl in eoe fuU page of each
hook, and having moliiplied each num-
ber of worda severally by the nomber of
the pages, of each book» and added the
whole of those numbers together, he found
the same to produce 26»537,60S words ;.
and he delivered in to your Committee
the whole account of suen computatbn.
Mr. Samuel Richardson,* prmter, beine
called before your committee, deliverea
in an Estimate of the Expence with re-
gard to the paper and print requisite for
printing 1,000 copies of the Journals;
which Estimate appears to be grounded
on the preceding calculation of wordis.
And the same contains two compnta-
tions made upon different suppositions of
the Journals being printed upon a type
ttdd page of such a aire as are therein
severally described ; but your Committee
seemed inclined to prefer the specimen
least expensive of the two: viz. That
which describes the print to be on a page
cif the like dimension, and upon such a
tjrpe (Roman) aa is used in the last edi-
tia»ot the Statutes at laage: and upon
this plan Mr. Rkhardson compntes, ttmt
dw whole work will auKmnt to the num-
ber of 4,422^ sheets*; iHiich, allowing 200
dieets to a volume, makes 22 volumes and
22sheet8, and the addUioa of Indexes may
extend the same to 23 volumes.
. ^ Tbei celabraled wilMr of GlanM Hit-
towe, &c. By ibe frieodtbip of Mr. Speaker
Qpslyw^ he pcocured the lucratiTe office of
PitoSer of the* Journalk of the House of Com-
Bepart tfOi Camiiile§
Thnt Ihd exneaem of
copies, of 900 slieeu for <
tknated at SOr. per sheet, anoontstoSOOt.
and the paper reouislte far that vndba
is 400 ream, maoe perfed for printii^;
which f supposing it to be fine Eog^
demy ot 15f. per ream vahie), will cost
3Q0L Sothattbeexpenoeof naper ttd
print for one Tolume is 600^ \nucfa for
29 Tolumea amounts to 1 3,8002.
But there is besides, the chuge of copy
for the press, the charge of revising the
press, and drawing up proper Indexes,
&c. of which no estimate is noade.
Mr. Richardson, being further exa-
mined, said, . Supposing do more thn
600 copies of the Joumab were allowed
to be printed, in that case the expence
would be reduced to 10,120/. but tint
the cost of each single Tohmie would, if
600 copies only were printed, amooot
to 14^. Sd. and by prinUng 1,000 copies
the same would be reduced to I2s.
Hereupon your Committee came ts the
following Resolution, via.
** Resolved, Thai it is the optaion of
«this Committee, that aO the boob of
**the« Firoceedings or Joumds of die
** House of Commons, now in the custody
" of the clerk of the said House, ax)
*^ oommendng with the book called < Sey-
<<mour,' which begins with the reigDaf
** king Edward the 6th, be printed.''
With regard to such additions andotlier
necabsnry works, which may reader the
Jonm A more uaefol and perfect, and to
the method of defraying all the expences
of the whole work, Mr. Hardinge acouaint-
ed your Committee, that he (fesirea letre
to o&r some matters to their considers |
tion by way of proposal : and bein^ beard
in relation thereto, he was directed by
the Committee, to reduce into writing the
substance of what he had proposed. Ac<
cordially, he afterwards i>resented toyour
Committee, a Proposal in Writing; and
the same h hereunto annexed.
Upon the whole, the Committee csme to
the following Resolutions :
« Resolv^ That it ia the epimoo of
« this Committee, That 1,009 cosies of
<< the said Journals be printed bjr the ^
*• pomtment and under the direction of Ni-
<< cholas Hardinge, esq. clerk of the Ho^
•' of Commons, the same not to exceed
« SO volumes, with a proper preface and
** index to each volume, and a general pr^
** face and index to the whole.
<' Resolved, That it ia the opinioD of
<« thia Committee, That a proper recom-
tS7]
Ml Prinihig ilk Caimriom^ JoumaU.
A. D. 1742.
|T»
** pence be made to the said Nieholas
^ Harduige, for the loss of fees, which he
^ and his oflSce will sustain by printing the
'* said Journals/*
Appxkdix No. 1. — Mr. Hardinge's Re-
port of the State of the Condition
of an the Journals.
To the Committee appointed to con-
aider of printing the Journals of the
House of Commons.
Having received your commands to
■tate the Condition of the Journals, I
humbly certify. That the most ancient
Journal, now extant in my custody, is the
book called * Seymour* (from the clerk's
name who wrote it) containing short notes
of the proceedings of the Commons from
the beginmnff of die reign of £dw. the 6th
to the 2d of January, in the ninth vear of
the re^ of queen Elizabeth : and itap-
pearsfrom the preface to atreatise of Mr.
Hakewit, formerly a member of the House
of Commons, pnnted in 1659, intituled,
** Tlie manner how statutes are enacted
^ in parliament, by passing of Bills:'* that
the House ci Commons h»l then no Jour-
nal more ancient ; thouffh from the anti-
quity and duty of the clew's office, it may
be inferred, that Remembrances of the
proceeding of the House of Commons, in
mnner reigns, must have been entered in
some books, which are now lost.
And it particulariy appears, by an act,
made in the 6th year of tne reign of Hen.
the 8th, that such Remembrances were
then msde; that act forbidding the mem-
bers of the House to depart, or absent
themselves, from the parliament, without
ficenoe of the Speaker and Commons, en-
tered of record m the book of the derk ef
the parliament appointed for the Commons
House, upon pain of losing their wages.
The next Journal is a book called
^ Onslow' (from the name of the derk
who succeeded < Seymour*), b^inmng
the 2nd day of April, 13 £liz. and ending
the 17th March, 23 Elia. This Journal is
more ihiriy written, and more accurate
than Seymour : the Journals of all the
aocceeding; parliaments, in that queen's
reign, are now lost ; though it appears by
the Pre&ce to sir Simonds Dews's Jour-
nal of all the parliaments during her reign,
and dso from* Mr. Hakewif s Preface
before-mentioned, thfeit Journals of the
House of Commons in alltheparliaments of
queen filizabeth'sreiffn were then extant.
The psmted Joumsb ihensfore of bllher
parliaments^ collected bysir Simonds Dewi;
and the printed Journals of her four hat
parliaments, collected by Mr. Townshend^-
are valuable Supplements to the original
Journals, and have been qudted as author
rities Tif my memory does not fail me,) in
several Reports from committeeB appointed
to search precedents.
This loss of andent Journals is imputed
by Mr. Hakewit in his Preface before-
mentioned, to the ** want of a proper
provision for the safe preserving of^them^
answerable to that which the Lords have,
whose clerk hath a house belonging to him
and his successors, where all their records
are kept to posterity."
The present repository of the Journals
is indeed more tM>nvenient than it was for^t
merly (the office room, near the House,
having been enlarged some ieet, and that
and other rooms having been fitted up
with good wainscot presses, for the recep-
tion of the Journals and papers belonfging
to the House :) but this office room ifr stin
so little, and so dark, that neither the
members nor the clerk can conveniently
consult the Journals in it. And it ha*^
lately been made more dark, by the erec-
tion of a chimney against one of the but^
tresses of the house; which chimney also
may add to the danger of fire, to which
the Journals are now exposed ; and an ac-
ddent, which, hf^>pened not long ago
during the recess of parliament, has given
me reason to fear the possibility of future
damage to the Journals, when they are
not under the immediate care of the clerkii
as the Journals of the House of Lords are^
And if I may be allowed, on this occasion,
to take notice of what r^ards myself; I
beg leave to observe, that the derk, whea
he is most at leisure to consult the Jour^
nals, is, by the necessary distance of his
house from his office, restrained from
making the proper use of them, either for
his own information, or the service of the
House*
1 have already stated to the committee
Ae condition of the two most andent
Journals, Seymour and Onslow. The
Journals of the reign of king James the
£Ln9t, (beinff for the most part, Minutes
taken by ttie derk, and not aderwarda
ttnnscribed}, are in many places incorrect
and almost illegible, and are also much im*
paired by ? length of time and various a6«
cadent& Yet, as they contain the history
ef many important transactions, and alsd
the heads of ^>eedies ddif ered by man^
fomeoa members in debates concerning tfail
prerogatiVo of the qwRa aad the U^erty aft
[SB]
fi9] 15«B01CBIL
Ibft subjfct, Ao. tbqy Mem iMrthf of t»r]r
groal regard*.
And manv of ikeir defeots may probal^jr
be aupplieabv the help of ancient oc^piet:
end tliereare ako in the clerk'e cwtodj du*
pUcateaof the Journals of the lit and Slat
year of his reign, which, being collated,
Siajr anpply the defect of each oOier.
The Joumalsof the reignof kins Charlea
lit, till the year 1640» are aa iU wntten and
aaiU preaerred, biitoontainUkewiBe the Mi-
nutee of many memoraUe paeiegia : the
practiee of entering henda of ^eischea in
the Joumab was discontinued soon after
the b^inning of that reign ; though the
Phioe^ings and Debates of the House of
Commons, in 1G28, collected by air Ibo.
Crew, were published in 1707 by Jeim
FarkhufBt, esq. his grandsen, in which, the
heada of many speeches are inserted.
fVom the year 1640 to the end of the
feipA of Ung Charlea the fid, the Journals
#f the Houseare generally mere kgi>Ie and
ootrect; though a few of thean are in seme
parts impaired ^d haire been damaged by
AiMew, particularly the Conventkin Jour*
nalofieeo^ andd^of theSfidittdSSd
of Charles the fid.
On the 5th of May 1698, a ceaonktee
S|)pointed to search pnecsidents, having
reported, that many Journals of tUs House
bdfore the year 1665 were much won, fll-
written, and without any indexes ; the fd-
Ipwkig order was nUde. ** Ordered,
That all the Journals of this House, until
)he year 1665, be ftirly transcribed, and
indexes made by the clerk, of the Jour-
nals so transoribed, mth references to the
foUes of the original books $ and that it be
seconunended to the lords commissioners
of the treasury to pay the cham thereof.''
In consequence of this order, ail ihe
Journals before I6|i5 were copied (except
the Journals between the 14th of Mardi
164fi and the Restoration), but without in-
dexes; and these copies remain now in
my custody; bat are ¥ery erroneous ; as
are aU the copies of the ancient Journals
whkh I have ever compared with the
•rtroals,
. The Journals between the 14th of March
andtheRestorationnot having been copied,
pumiant to the said order ; that omiasion,
tsigether with the tradition concerning
them, and the naase by which they have
been called, and abo the manner in which
ths^ have been kept, being oircumstances
which affect tlieir authority ; I beg leave
Id lay befere the Commfttee tihe eenalt ml
atpmi^Ae£$mmiU§t. [NO
After the Besteration, npon^is 14lkrf
March, 13 Car. fid, a committee wssip.
pointed '« to look into all the Jooimk tf
the Long Pkrliament, since his Ists bs^^
jesty departed from London, till the dis*
solution thereof, and to make a r^ort (tf
what they diould think fit to be expunged
thereout, as treasonable and scandalous to
fak majesty and his royal fether rfblened
memory c" b«l no report i^pean to hare
been nuide firom that cemmitlee.
I beg leavse further to observe, nstths
king (topaited from London the lOtktf
Januaiy 1641, and afterwards psssed iS'
▼end acts hj commission ; not to SMatioa
the king*s aidiseqoent tioaties with thi
Ceanons as a House of Pailiamant. All
the said kis^ being reatmsaed by w set,
to which he oonaented^ from dtssoWingsr
proroguing the pariiamwtf, without ths
oencunenoe of Ae two Houses; I sn
huoably of opinkn, tiiat thet pariisBuat
was never deemed to havebc«n diaMbdl
^7
befera the king's death.
And it was pestonded at
persona after tbe RestoratioB, Ihit tbs
Long PaiUament was not disserved, etm
by die king'sdeatli; and tfaer«fevs,frr
preventing disputes oonoeming the si-
aemblii^ of the Restoration Pariiancat, it
was by a declaratory law enacted, Tki
the Long ParltaBent was &dly diuoM
and determined; though the act doeiDdl
mention die tune, when tbesame was foil j
dissolved and detemuoed.
Hiese Journals (thouf^ called, as I sa
informed, raaed ot' oKpunged J^ouraah) di
not appear, upon the view of them, ts be
in fret raaed or OKpun^ed; exceptinsoae
friaces, n^mre the derk has oifseclsd hit
own errors, or the House has dvected ts
oblitendon (as on the dth and S5ih of
January, 1659,) nor does any Order of the
House appear to me to have been ande
lor raaing or exnoaging them,
I beg leave further to obserre^ thatp it
any razure of those Joumab had keen l^
doped, the same would probably laneso>
timlly been made, as ^nas done m tfaecaie
of the entiies relating to ^he Sait-Iodii
Company 23d February, lG69,and in sone
other instances.
But these Journals (as I have beeD ia*
formed by Mr. Hamlyn, who hss bees
many years a derk in my offiee) wese
(before the present office was Atted op}
kept in presses in the Couit of Wards, it-
parate irom the o&er ioamals (vfaicfl
were keplin the dork's odaoe) ; aadyirfieD
Ancovt^fWaadswas ashiiilllhsywMt
Mr)
k. V. 1*^^
ptt
kito anollier ploM; and, when
the eoiirt of Aequetts was Mbuilt, tiicy
»agaia leaMivadl into the rooms over
Umg gatterjy where they hate re-
noft sboe that time*
Bus I moat also observe, that the tides
ef all these Journals under the head of
« Jburnalsboginninghi 1640/> are entered
m two Ineventories, preserved in my office,
and Bsade, as I am roformed, by Mr. Jod-
seD, friwD he was first appointed clerk,
whicA happened, as I am iammed, in the
year 1684.
And having enqmred, in what manner
tile Joomah of the House of Lords, be-
tween the hinges departure from London
and his death, are preserved, I find, that
they ase all preserved in the parliament
ofice widi the other Journals, without any
distinction.
I beg leave fiirther to observe, that it
smeai«y from a Report made the 10th of
Jnly, 15 Car. fidi, that Extracts from the
Joumab of the ^d of May and 22d of
Jonwy 1<M9, are reported from the com-
mittee appointed to inspect the act for
the CHHifirniation of Judicial proceedings ;
whi^ Journals are in that report called
««JoQmab of the pretended House of
Commons in the year 1649.'^
And having enquired, whether the said
act for confirmine judicial proceedings did
Invalidate the auUiority of these Journals,
I haore perused the said act ; and I find,
that the judicial proceedings thereby con-
firmed are such only as were subsequent
So the 1st of May, 164^9 ; but, though in
aereral daoses of the said act, all authority
derived under any pretended House of
Coomions after the king's death seems to
be condemned, as an usurpation, yet I can-
not discover, that any parliamentary pro»
eeedings since the Ist of May, 1642, and
before the king^s death, are thereby an*
noBed.
And I also b^ leave fiirther to observe,
diat the last <^tSe Journals, aUowed to be
authentic, ends the 14th of March, 1642-S,
long after the time of the king's departure
from London, and many months after the
said IstofMay, I64d.
In the Journals after the year 1685, the
proceedings of the House are more fully
and carefiilly entered ; and the practice of
printing the votes has very much contri^
Doted to that accuracy; though diere are
in these Journals some omissioos, as welt as
mistakes ^roany of which may be rectified
by the Mmute Books of this House, or by
Ifte petaiied volesi of by original papien);
as, fiar iostaacii, in the year 1714, in the
case of a Beport firom the committee of
privileges, and Sections touching the ebc^
tion fi>r Weymouth and Melcorab Begia;
in which case, all the intermediate pn^
eeedings of the. House between the entry
of the report and the order for amending
the retam are entirriy omitted in Uie
joumaL «
There are also some chasms, which may
be filled up by the help of the Journals dT
the House of Lords.
And the printed Journal of the parlia-
ment in 1678-9 (whidi is caUed in the
title, a true copy) contains dl the pro*
eeedin^ of the House upon the king^i not
approvrag sir Edward Seymour to be
Speaker; ^ich in the original Journal
book are entirely omitted.
The proceedings of the House in the
choice of the SpMker, 1 and 2 Anne, are
also entirely omitted ; and there are so-
Toral bhinks in the narrative of the choice
of the Speaker in 17^: I have endeavour-
ed, though in vam, to i>rocure materiah
fi»r completing those entries.
The razures which appear in the Jourari
1669, m the case of the East-India Com-
pany, were directed by order of the
House, upon the king's recommendation.
In this account of the Journals of the
Hotise, I include the Convention Journal
in 1660 ; that Journal having been con-
stantly preserved among the other Jour-
nals m the House ; and the pubfic acts of
that Convention having been confirmed by
the next parliament. And for the same
reason I include die Journal of the Con-
vention, at the time of the Revolution, and
also the Journal of the Assembly, which
directed the calling of that Convention ;
diose Journals having been likewise so
Kiserved, and that Convention of tlm
rds and Commons having been de-
clared by law to be the two Houses of
P^iament.
Mot having received the directions of
the Committee to prepare any Scheme
for printing the Journals, I shall not pr^
sume to nuke any calculation of the eXf
pence Which must attend that work: f
sbiall only beg leave to acquaint the Com-
mittee, that f am entitled by virtue of mv
office, which is granted to me for my m^
to several fees for searches into the Jouiw
nds and fi>r copies of them; which feea
Inust be very inconsiderable, if the Houte
should think fit to order the Journals to be
printed': 1 therefore hope, that, if any
pA)fit stall mse firom iuUi' piiUicatiiAiil
5*8]
15 OBOR6B IL lUfmri mt IhmAfih§€ommmif Jammak. [TM
may be thought not onworthy of reodhring
ioaie recompence for mj loss, and lor the
.|iehi8 which I most necessarily, and shatt
willingly, take in prepariiq^ the work for
4he press.
N. HAnoiiTGB, CP Dom' Cem.^
Mb. Hardikob's Pboposal.
I'o the Committee appointed to consider
of printing the J ournals of the House
of Commons.
. A computation having been made bv
Mr. Richardson (a printer, in whose skiU
4U)d integrity I dan confide), that the
Journals of the House of Commons, In-
dexes included, will make 2S volumes in
print, 200 sheets in each vcriume, to be
printed in two columns, upon a page of
iheiMuoe size as that on which the last
/edition of the Statutes at Large is printed,
4|od in a character of the same size as the
Roman letter used in that edition, but
upon mnch better paper, viz. fine English
jd^niy. If orth at least I5s. each ream ;
And the e^pence of paper and df the
press (besides the charae of the copy for
the press, the charge of revising the press
hy the proper officer, and the charge of
.drawing up indexes, &c.) being computed
by him to amount, if 1,000 copies be
printed, to 13,8002. and if 600 only be
printed, to 10,120^
I humbly propose, if the House shall
intrust me with the publication of this
work, to publish the same with i^ possible
expedition, upon the conditions ana iii die
manner following :
1. I humbly hope, from the equity and
favour €/£" the House, to receive a present
recompence for the loss, which I must im-
mediately sustain by an Order for printing
the Journals, and for the great pains,
which I must necessarily take in settling
ithe text of the ancient Journals (impaired,
as thev are, and, in some places, almost
illegible) in supplying the defects oi all
jthe Journals, by the best authorities ; in
preparing a preface to each vdume; in
making proper annotations ; in drairing up
an index to each volume ; with particular
ireferences to the rules and orders of the
House ; in the addition of some usefid and
hiBtructive Reports, and other F^ieia,
presented to the House, though not en-
tered in the Journals; and, when the whole
work shall be finished, in compiling a ge-
lieral PrefiMre and Index to the whole.
2. If it shaU be determined, that the
f9r^ be priutjed entirely at a public eB-
penoe, and Aat no meie llianOODeBpct
thereofbe so printed; I hope to be em^
Ued, b]r the advancement or a competent
proportion of the whole expenoe^ to c««
tract for paper, and to defray such dnrgei
as will immediately be seoesnry ; and to
receive, upon the delivery ofeadivoluins
to every member, a proportionable put
of the remaining expenoe of paper and
print : and, in order to provide a number
of copies, to be sold to mture members at
moderate prices, I propose, that 1,000
copies be printed ; the cnarge of printing
600 only to be paid in the manner before-
mentioned, and the remaining 400 to be
sold to eveiy future member at 20i. or
one guinea each volume, and to every
other person at.SOs. or one guinea and
half; which last price is considarably lesi,
than that, for which voluminous works of
the like cost (as to paper and print) are
usually sold by booksellers, even in cases,
where a mucin larger number of copiei
than 1,000 have been printed.
This scheme of printing 1,000, instead
of 600, will lesun the chuge of the 600
copies, supposed to be printed at the pub*
lie expence ; inasmuch as each volume, if
600 only be printed, will, according to Mr.
Richardson's computation, cott 14«. 8dl»
and, if 1,000 be printed, will cost 12f.
only.
S. If it shall be thought proper, that
part only of the expence bf paid in thi
manner before-mentioned, and that 1,000
copies be printed; the editor will thereby
be enabled to. sell each volume to every
present member at a price proportiooably
less, and to every niture member at tlw
price of 208* or at one guinea, and to every
other person at 30s* or one guinea and
half.
4. But if no part of the expence of pa^
per and print be paid in the manner be-
fore-mentioned, it is proposed, thst sob-
scriptions be taken, in order to enable me
to judge what nun^ber I may venture to
pv&ish ; and also to enable me to defiay
the oM charge, which will be imme-
diately necessary; each volume to be de-
livered to every subscribing member at
1^ 5$, and to every other subscriber at
35f. ; one-fourth of the price to be paid at
the time of subscribing, and a praportion-
•ble part of the remahune S4tbs to be
paid upon the delivery of. each volume;
which last price of S5a. is less tban what
other voluminous works, more generally
demanded, and consequently more veodi*
Ue^ y«( printed ufoa paper of npgnB^
air\ JidMUk^MCtmnumi^iher^ffCndit. . A. IX 174t.
C74tf
fnot Ieii» Trine, litve been iMm% fold
or farf hofllmfMew.
I Im^ lesve to.olMenre, ihad tlMOgh Mr.
Rlchanieott's icalcnlatioii su^ipoiesy. that
iie Jcwroeb will, in jpriat, inake 28 vo«
uinea» jel, as Pf«fi|on^ Annotadonii Sup
^kmenfis, and AppendizeB, will be abo
aeeessarj, the number of yolomes will
probably be greater ; which will propor-
uonabljr inerease the charge; as, oathe
Dtber hand, if they make leas than 23 to-
liunesy thechaige will be proportaonaUy
abated.
And it must be dbaenred, that the pro*
fit ariraig from the sale of such books, as
ahall not be immediatel v disposed o^ wiU
be consideraUy diminished bjr several in-
ddent charges; not to mention the ha-
sard <^ fire, and other aoddents. And it
is also to be obaerved, that it may be a
long time, before all the copies, which
shw be reserved for future purchasers,
wUl be aold.
It is not doubted, but that the House
will effisctually resftrain the printing or
selling of any edition of the Journal^ or
any abridgment thereof, or any collections
therefrom, which shall not. be warranted
by their own order,
N. Uarpinos, CL Dom. Com,
The Journals or the Housx ov
COMBfOMS ORDERED TO BE PRINTED.*]
The fimt Resolution of the Committee
being read a second time, was agreed to
by the House.
The second Resolution being read a
secoiHl time, an Amendment was pro-
posed to be made, by inserting' afler the
word " printed," and before the word
«« by,'' these words, « for the use of the
*' members of this House ;" and the same
was agreed to.
** £ssolyed. That the House do agree
with the Committee io the Resolution, so
amended: That 1,000 copies of the said
Journals be printed for the use of the mem-
bers of this House, by the appointment, and
under the direction, of Nicholas Hardinge,
* *« The members oftbe House of Commons
srdeied their Joarnals to be printed. This wai
a ooelbl and a neocsiary work, as the cbarae
of traDflcribing them could be defrayed bat by
Tcry few prirate mibjects. The care of the
poblicatioD was committed to Mr. Hardinge,
the derk of the House. He was a man of
tome knowltdlge in history ; and very little be-
•idei eorrectnesi being required in such a pub-
GcalioD, he dischar^ bis duty as an editor
withlslsiaUasaeGam.'' TiadaL
esq- derk ofthe House of Commons; (the
not to exceed SO Tolumes), with a
preface and index to each volbme,
a general preface and index to thi
whde."
. The third Resolution being read a se«
coad time, was agreed tOb >
«< Resolved, That an homble Address
be presented to his majesty, that he will
be graciously pleased to order the sum of
5,000/. to be advanced to Nicholas Har-
dinge, esq. clerk of this House, towards
enabling him to print the Jouroais of thia
House ; and likewise the further sum of
1,000/. as a reoompeace to the said Nicho*
las Hardinge, for the lossof fees, which
he, and his: office, may sustain by printing
the said Journals; and to assure his majea*
ty, that thia House will make good the
same."
Ordered, That the said Joivnala bo
grinted by such person as shall be licensed
y Mr. Speaker : and that no odier person
do presume to print the i
Debate in the Commons on the Vote ^
Cfcc^.] Mr. Fane reported from the
Committee of Supply, the following Reso-
lution, viz. <* That towards raising Uia
Supply, 800,00tf . be granted to his majes-
ty, to be raised by annuities at S/. per
cent, per ann. transferable at the Bank of
Enghmd, redeemable by pariiainent, or by
loans; to be charged upon, and secured
by the Sinking Fund."
The said Resolution being read a se«
cond time,
Mr. PhiUips stood up and said :
Sir; the gentlemen on the other
sideof Uie House cry out, ' Agree, ame ;f
but as I do not find Uiem so Tery reaciy to
Ufi;rte to any proposal that comes from this
sideof the House, to redress grievanoesor
to promote enquiries, and to render them
efiectual, I hope they will excuse me, if I
do not immeoiately agree to this proposi-
tion. Sir, when this Resolution was pro-
posed and agreed to in the Committee, I
was at so sreat a distance from the chair^
that I could not distinctly hear it; there*
fere, I hope, I may be allowed to say a
word or two to it now, not that I have the
least expectation, that any thing I canaqr
will have such an e&ct on the House, aa
to cause any alteration in this resolution ;
but I cannot let it paaa without some ten
marks.
According to the computation that I
have made» the aiqppUea voted this seasioa
of
not flaked?
fiapdly doaed?
For I beg Imm to uike Doliee» that
Mn. IS GBOBGS IL Cif9 •f^Bmimd ^JtmlkM
MMtu^lo fliMut^78Sg000Lloiriiichniiit
be added the defaicncy of last ye«r*e
tod land taai^ which oomaa ta*
a7a,000L BO thai (he whole am to be
raised b about 6,097 fiOOL The ways ewl
means ahreedy Voted Bmannt to about
SfSSOfiOOL which beii^ deduoled fvom die
^JonfiOOk there wiU remain to be raised
about 747,000{. If I do nM Bustake» the
iBsolution of the Committee ia to raiae
SOOJQOOL which. is about S^fiOOL more
than is voted, and more than is wanted.
Sbv I am for raising aU the money tkat has
been vofcedt not because I believe it is aU
jf but for this sing^ reaseiii be-
\ it has been. voted» and the parlin*
men! ftith, is» aa it weie, at stake Ibr it;
birt I can by no means come intn n resolu-
lion of rwsmg more mensy on the people
than has been Toted, and 1 am surprised
Meed to find it att«mpted^*.If mors mo-
ney is wanted* why was Ae Committee of
^ ' • ' Wh
neat a confidence did the House place m
Sie gentlemen of this administtntifln, that
every tUng thntwaa asked was granted;
bol this is 0 new way of aaking, by tsm*
ing a committee of ways and means into a
committee of supply.
If any arguments are to be drawn from
pfivato cBoonomy, I bdieve, we hnve all
the reason in the world to think, thai our
present ministers will be as frugal as any
that over went before them ; but, I hope,
thojT will excuse me if I my, that to place
en implicit confidence in any ministers,
which we do whenever we pass a Vote of
Credit, is unconstitutional and unbecom-
ing & parliament of Great Britain. I sup-
pose it will not be denied, that the repre-
sent Aives of the people are accounlalNe to
Ihem for all the money that is raised upon
them ; but if I should be asked, why this '
overplus is raised, I should be pnxaled for
an answer, and, I believe, the gentfemen
on the other side of the House could fur-
nish me with no other than this, * That it
was to make up a round sum.'
I am sensible, if the House ames to
this resolution, it will not be toe only
veto of credit of diis session : the 500,000f.
fi>r the service of the oueen of Hungary
was an absolute vote or credit : the many
sums granted for contingencies in the seve-
ral estimates laid before the House, are all
so many votes ai credit, and are therefbre
the strongest reason in the world against
your commg into this. It may be said,
why all this stir about 90 smaUasum, as
[748
MorMMMMLI aHowitisMsnaltatain
comparison of the six ■■■ana dm «e
have gianisdi hA bo Iho sum bm or
smU, the MMugit hi d» mamier, b^
voterfciiadit, astfce eni oftbefintns.
sion of das pariiimst^ la so badayraos-
dent to- fotnre seMians, that 1 diesd tltt
conse^ueaee of* it.
I was in hopes, that inatead ef increaring
their deoaands^ die mkiialry wenld nther
hove abated oftheas, and have left some-
thing in the hands of the parliBmeDtl^
way of pledge, that all the sums tbst hsfe
been gcantM, shall be propeiiy sppBei
I will say but one thing more: if wecai.
not redress the peofdes' grievuioes, let oi
notbelaviriioftheirasoiiey: ifwecsmnt
compass an enquiry into past mimismgf-
ments, let us not lay a feundatioD for
ftitureones: if we caoBOt obtain the glofj
of doing all Che good ww amiedat,letu
at least avoid the shame dmt must slviyi
attend all unjustifiable and unprsoedeaterf
measures. Sir, I call God to witnas, I
have no end in aaying those diings, bat the
pobUe service imd the honour of thii
House; and therefine shaH beg leere
to condudo with makii^ you a motion^
*< That this Re«dution bo ve-committei'*
Then the (|nestion bein^ put upon Mr.
Phillips's motion, it passed in the negadre,
Ayes 86, Noes 118.
Capgrfa BiU «ai# npjrtm ih$ Cm-
NKNis, J&r stotting Trade and Navmim
in Times of War."] On the SCKfa ofMaT»
the Commons sent up to the Lordsa Bill,
which look its rise firom the CompIsintB of
the Merchants, intitled,<< An Act for the
better protecting and securing of tiie
Trade and Navigation of this Kingdom in
Tfanes of War," of which the foUowing is
a Copy :
An Act for the better protecting and
securing of the Trade and Naviga-
tion of this kingdom in times of war.
*«, Whereas it is necessary, in tima of
war, that a sufficient number of ihiDS
shfHild be appointed, and kept constawf
employed, as cniisen, in proper scstions,
for the protection and security of tbe
trade and navigation of this kingdom ; be
it enacted by the Kine's most excellent
majesty, by and with the advice and
consent of the Lords spiritual and teII^
poral, and Commons, in the present par-
liament assembled, and by the autbo^
rity of the same, that Whea and li
oaenas thia kingdom shall basqagw^
N9J
Jhfiiouing Trvletmd'ltnijgtdim*
A. IX i7«^.
[T60
war widi woi Ungdom m itate in Barope,
(over and uofs the 8hipt of war lor the
lue of bittle, ajid for eoniie^t te remole
parti) fluch a nuniber ofmpeiof warai
iUl be sufident for the proteotkni aad
ttcttiit J ef the neffdiant^shipe, in then:
gang out aad ivtaniiag home, afaall be
coutaatly employed as eruuera, or for
coDToyiy in aiM near the British channel
and soundings* and in sudi other stations
spthit aide Cqie Fbisterre^ as dnll by
tie lord high admiral, or commissionen
for execudi^ the office of lord high admi*
lal of Great Britam fiv the time being, be
judged molt proper for that pwrpoee; the
afflNBaid afaips of irar to be caieened at
kast [diree] times in the rear^ or oftener,
if dnre he eecasicm : and that the seamen
n board soy each cniisers shall not be
toned over into any other Mp or abbs,
Int loch onl? as shaU be i^ointed tor
cniiuigy er home oonvoys, aoeoeding to
Ae tenor of this act.
S. *<FlrofidedalanBys, aad be it enacted
bf the authon^ amesaid, Aat nodiing
kiein contsinea simll restrain, or be con-
itnied to reskram, the lord high adaaiial
or canniisBienecs far eseontuig the office
if lord high admiral for the time beings
fiomdirecting any of the ships which shtul
kappointedto be cruisers in punoaneeof
tbisict, to be employed in the line of bat-
tie(inGaae of great necessity) on this side
0^ Finirteire, without whose immednte
mction, the said ships shall be always
craisbg, or enjoyed as home convoys,
except when-dic^ are careenhw or refitting.
d. << And be It enacted by moauthority
aforesaid, that the lord lugh admiral, or
^^MnmiiiiQiiers for executing the office of
kndhi^ adnonal, for the time being, shall
nor before the [first day of Jidynext]
tdthoRze aad a^ioint a oomndssMner of
knavy, or some one or move peiaonor
penou, who sbidl constantly reiide at
Mdi plaoe or phices as his majesty shall
^i'ect; by virtne of which uipointment,
Nch perion or persons, m the phice or
phoei for which he or they shall be ^p-
pouted, shall superintend or oversee every
«ing relating to the aforesaid cmisemr
tnd shall take care that eveiy thing neces-
^ be iounediately provided for aH and
every the aforesdd cruising ships of war,
tbat shall come into any port by stress d
leather, or to careen or refit ; and as soon
^sthey or any of them are refitted, shaD
^^ aU or an^ of the said ships of isar to
put to sea agam as soon as possible.
4 •Aadbeitfiacther enacted by the
aatfaonty afosasud, that from and after
the said [first day of Jahr] if any captain^
or otber officer on board any or his ma^
jesty's sh^ of #ar, shell wdfuliy springs
carry away, or lose any naaat or nmats of
any each ship,* or ahali make any iaise
pseteneeor excose for leaving' the station
on which each ship or shqps shall be ap
pcnnted to cmiiei, or shaH return into port
before the expiration of the term appointed
for his cruise, without just and sufficient
reason for so doing, every captain or of*
ficer offending in anv of the aforesaid cases
[siiall be |panished by fine, inmrisonmenty
or otherwise, as the offiealce by a ooorS*
flsartial shall be adjudged to deserve^*
5. '* And to the intent that it may ha
the more easily kncywn what service the
aforesaid cruisers shall every 3rear pea*
form, be it enacted by the anuiority afoea*
said, that the eoeomisnoner of the navy in
each of the out-ports, or sudi person or
persons as shall, for that nurpose, be ap*
pointed by the lord high amnnai, or com*
missioners for exeonting the office of lord
high admhral for the time being, aimi
tanasmit to him or then, every [three
months! a distinct and separate account
diffested into proper columns, of the time
when any of the ships appointed to ba
cruisere, sailed out of port, when such ship
came in, together with the nundier of days
cast up that such ship was out wfoa duty,
and the reasons of her poftmg asto poiC,
aad the thne and reasons of her stay there;
with an account how often, nod the times
when, oadi of the said ships have been
careened every year; and that tiw lord
high adnural, or cenmussioliess for eno*
ctttin^ the office of lord hi^ admiral foe
the tane being, aiball caase copies of the
said accounts to be laid before both
Houses of FMiament within [ei^t days]
after their meeting.
€. <« And be it fmdMr eoaeted by the
aadMrity aforesaid, tint the k»d high
admiral, or cmnmissiooeie for executing
the office of lord high minanl for the time
being, shall, on or before the said [fint
day dT Julvl nominate and appoint soeh a
numiber of Uie ships of war, as shall besaf*
ficieotfor thepmposes afore-mentioned, t«
be cniiserB or convoys on this side Oapo
Finislerre for the current year; and shall
afterwards yearly, and every year, dqring
the present or any future war, between the
[first day of November] and the j^firstdaw
of December] noaainate andappomt aeor*
* Lift oat, oriAijif..
761]
ident nunber of diipB of war to be
or coDToyt on this side Cape FiDiiteive fat
the year ensuing ; and as often as any of
them shall happen to be taken or lost»
shall, as soon as may be, appoint others in
the room of every siiip so taken or lost.
?• ** And whereas it is of the utmost inn
portance to the trade of this nation, that
the captains or commanders of his ma-
jesty's ships of war appointed for convoys
to and irom remote parts, should take due
care of the merchant ships committed to
their charge ; be it thererore enacted by
the autiiority aforesaid, that eveiy captain
or commander &i any of his majei^s ships
of war, who, on or after the Bitt sfaAll coos-
mence, shall be apoointed convoy or guard
to any merchant snins or vesaels, or who
"shall have any mercnant ships or vessels
under his charge, do and shall diligently
attend upon such charge without delay,
and in and during the course of the voyage
take the utmost care of such merchant
ships and vessels, and do and shall every
evening see that the whole number of thie
said merchant ships and vessels under his
convoy be in companywith him ; and m
case he shall be obliged in the night-time
to tack, or alter his course, or lie to, that
he do and shall make the proper signals,
to give the merchant ships and vessels,
un£r his ccmvoy, notice thereof ; and if in
the morning he shall find any of the said
merchant snips and vesseb to be missmg,
he shall use nis utmost endeavours to re-
join them, and shall not willingly or neg-
ligently saU away from, leave, or forsake
such merchant snips or vesseb, untd he
has seen them ssfe, so far as he shall be
directed to convoy them ; and in case any
of the said merchant ships or vessels shall
be in distreis, he shall give them all proper
and necessary relief and assistance, as far
as he is able ; and in case any such captain
or commanding officer shall refuse or n^-
lect to do all or any of the matters afore-
said, every such captain or commanding
office shall [be condemned to make repa-
ration of the damage to the merchants,
owners, and others, as the court of admi-
ralty shall adjudge; and also be punished
according to the quality of his onence, as
shall be adjudged tit by a court miutiaL}
8. ** And whereas it is of the utmost
importance to our settlements in America,
and the trade thereof* that the com*
manders of the ships stationed there,
should use their best endeavours for iJie
<^ jUeftout, M in tia|g4Mr wsr.^
15 OEOX6B XL Cop§4^a BSU mU if from ike Commfnu, [751
prolectfcitt and security of each tiak, [sDd
the colonies thereO be it further enarted
by the authority aforesaid, that f noDe of
his majesty's ships, which shall be statkn.
ed at any of the said settlements, shall quit
or leave their stations under pretence ^
going to careen or refit, or under any other
pretence whatsoever, without an especial
order firom the lord high admirsi, or com-
missioners for executing the office of lord
lugh admiral, (or the commander in chief
of his majesty's diips of war in those seas,
or in America (,) for the time beingj.
9. And to the end that it may appear
what service the ships so ststioned shaS
perform, be it enacted by the autfaontr
aforesaid, that the obtain or commaodiDg
officer on board every such sh^ or vessel,
shall keep a distinct and separate account,
digested mto proper columns, of the times
when the said ship or vessel sailed out df
port, when sudi ship or vessd came k
the service she was upon, together vitb
the number of days cast up, thatsuchshiD
or vessel was out upon such duty, m
shall cause the same to be fiiirly entered
in one or more book or books, to be kot
for that purpose; such entries to beoi-
Ijested in proper colufcnns, and to be [ereij
six months] transmitted|| to the captain
or commanding officer of every such sta^
tion-ship, to die lord high admiial, or
cominisBioners for executing the oice of
lord high admiral for the time being, and
shall also send duplicates of the said ac*
counts at the first opportunity.
10.* *< And be it further enacted by
the authority aforesaid. That the com-
manders of his majesty's ships cf war, on
their arrival at any of the said settlements,
shall deliver a copy of the orders they sM
have received firom the lord hijf^h adimral^
or commissioDerB for executing the of-
fice of lord hiffh admiral of Great Britain
for the time being, so fiur as thejr relate to
the protcfction of the said colomeS) and of
the trade of the said colonies, to the go-
vernor and council of the respectiw
t Left out, "dariDgtbecotttinnaooeofaDy
SQcb war.^^
X These words were added.
§ Left out, '« or usieas the comihao^ ^\
ttommsDders of such ship or sbipa shall be w-l
dered off their statioD, to be employed Id the
line of battle in the AmericaD seas, wbicb tliall
not be done, but in cases of the greatest neces-
sity.*'
II Left out, *« together with the dopUoaltf
thefcof."
• This daoas was added ia the oomaiittsc.
fSS]
Jtr §eatriag Trfufe ami Navigaitiaiu
A. D. 1742.
[754
colony ^ plantation where they ahall be
stationed; whidi orders shall be entered
into the council-books of such colony or
phntatioa req[»ectiyely ; and the said go«^
vernor and council are hereby authorized'
and empowered to give such directions in
vritta£to the captains and commanders
of such stationed ships, as they shall think
will be most for the protection and secu*
ritj of their trade : and the said captains
ana coaunanders wt^ hereby required to
conform to, and observe the same, pro*
Wded the same do not contradict the in-
itructioos they shall have received from
(be said lord high admiral, or commission-
en for executin(^ the office of lord high
admiral for the tune being."
Ddaie in ike Lords on the BiUjbr se^
curu^g Trade and Navigation in times of
War^'} June 1. The above Bill havbg
been read a seoond time, *
The Earl of Wlnckelsea rose and said :f
My lords ; I know not by what ac-
cident the numerous defects and general
* From the Gcntlemaa's fifagazine : oom-
filed by Dr. Johnson. ' ~
^ Tram iht Seeker Manmcript.
Jane 1. On the second fading of the Bill
for protecting Trade and Navigation.
WmekeiteM, first Gemmissionsref the Admi*
nky. No written lew can be of ser? ioe to di*
net iMTsoos engaged, in military daty . Crots-
iiYibipsaie ordered to be careened S times a
y«r at least. If the king's senranu are not
in earnest to do their duty, doing this and no
latre, tbe Bill wiU be a protection to them.
Tke Admiralty to appoint sapertattefadams.
These will be needless additional officen. A
CapiaiQ Unfit to serve will be made a saperio*
tesdnt, and active serviceable peo^iAe ninst lie
uder bjm. P» S. •< Whoever will wiifttliy
•imaff,'' npoD tfaiSt«ne man will say, tbecaptain
viliiiUy Wffoug liis mast in n pnmiit^ aoother
wiU mjy be did not crowd sail eaough^ and so
tbecajitaln will be snbjeot to every motinoos
pmim ftboani his ship. The aext Claoseis
oiaerred abeady. There was a Bill of this na*
tare in the ^een's time : but the only good
part of it was that, which gave the prises to
^ecaplors^ which hath been faitaly te-eoaeted.
^*4. WiU yen give legal notice. to yonrene*
>aiea, where you pot yoor fsree^ Then let
tiieir nivalaars .oMnge their place, and they
are mSe. Yon cannot appoint new emiaen as
<Aea as the merchants hare a mind. Yon have
^w more ships in tbe Mediterranean and West
Indies, than yon had in all qoeen Anne's time,
After the battle of Malaga. Tbe privateers are
fiov gone from' tbe places where this Bill
[VOL, XII.]
unpropriety of this Bill have escaped, the
attention of the other House ; nor is them
any necessity for examining the motives
upon which it passed^ or of enquiring whe-
ther its reception was facDitated by flm
popularity of the title* tlie influence and
authority of tliose by whom it was pro*
posed, or the imaginary defects of our
present regulations, which have been on
some occasions represented to be such as
it is scarcely possible to change but for
the better.
The knowledge and experience of thos«
who concurred in sendi^ this Bill for
your lordships* approbation, cannot but
produce some degree of prepossession ia
Its favour; for how can it be iniagined«
ray lords* that men of great abilities and
continual opportunities of observation,
should not be well versed in questions re*
lating diiefly to their private interest, aifki
discover the nearest way to tlieir own
success i
And yet, my lords, it will be found that
their sagacity has perhiq^s nt^ver so appa^
rently forsaken them as on this occasion.
would appoint cruizers. J f ^ou appoint at first
a number which proves afterwaras too manj»
by this Bill you cannot call them off that year^
it you send oat all at once, yon will for a long
time after have none. Convoys often are not
nnndcd by the merchant ships under then*
eaue. Thej wiH take tharehanoe, and if thsf
are taken, then they will cosse home and ola-
moor. Tbe Dutch con? oys have all the naer-*
chant ships under their oomsaand, ss mooh as
we have onr men of war. P. 5. A man shouhi
not be punished two ways for the same ofience#
Comcaander in Chief in West Indies. An
order may be sent from hence Is Baiimdoea
sooner than f rosa Jamaica.
The next clause is ts eaact, that they shal.
do every six months what already they do
eOen^, W will not do ofteoer ibr tho lotara if
tbisBHIpssseSp
Tbe last olanse gii^es the goamors in thn
plantations, the command of the ships there. In
kiBg WilKam end qneen Anne's time it was so ;
but was fooad inconvenient. In 1096 anA
1703, these was a governor who prelected his
own ships and his mends, and let others soffer,
and so he made a great fortune. Ansther
broke « captain without reasoa, mid made a
friend of bis own capUin. of 4he ship. Jn
1717 captains of ships were directed to consult
snd sdvise with the gmeroora, and this was
right Tbe Admiralty may break a captain if
be do wrong, but they cannst turn out n
governor.
If the Admiralty dasire to do right, tins Bill
wiltbewaedlBss sndhnrtftil: if they do not, it
will be useless snd ineflbctual.
Bedford, Some things tn the end of this But
tSC]
755]
1.5 GEORGE IL
DAate in the Lords on the BUI
[756
that no proposition was ever laid before
this House, in which more contracted
motives were discovered, and that the Bill
is 9uch as might rather have been expect-
ed from petty traders, unacquainted with
the situation of kingdoms, the interests of
princes, the arts of nolicy, the laws of
their own country, ana the conduct of for-
mer wars, than by merchants of extensive
traffic, general correspondence, and great
attainments.
Before I proceed, mv lords, to confirm
the character of the Bill by a distinct con-
sideration of the particular paragraphs,
and mn enumeration of the several impro-
prieties and defects which may be found
m it, I tliink it not superfluous or unsea-
sonable to remark one general error com-
mon to this with all other laws of the same
kind, the error of prescribing rules to mi-
litary operations, of attempting to fix what
is in its own nature variable, as it must de-
pend upon external causes to which the
British legislature has ^et found no means
dt extending its authority.
' To direct, upon remote conjectures and
uncertain prospects, the conduct of a com-
mander, is, in my opinion, my lords, not
more rational than to trace upon a chart
tlie course of a ship, and pronounce it
criminal to deviate from it. The one sup»
we bed. But the Bill of ifOT certainly did
good. And this Bill doth not bind the Admi-
nity 80 moch as that : for it named tfie nnin-
ber and strength of the ships that should cruize.
Whereas this orders only a soffioient Dumber :
By obliging^ them to careen 3 times, you do
not indemnify them, if they ought to careen
oHeoer and omit it. The captains will be wil*
ling to careen often enough. For saperinten-
dants, ybu'niay take the same persons who
are now employed to that purpose. The Ad-
miralty may fix such a nomher of omissrs on
each station, as wiH always be necessary, and
ke^p the rest eitber to go thither or elsewhere.
The last clause ought to be left out.
; DeloKor. The benefit of queen Anne's Bill
was from clauses that have been enacted
agrain two years a^. All the good ohtuses in
this Bill are oontamed in the orders given by
the Admiralty, and there is no complaint that
the present Admiral^ have neglected their
duty. By this Bill, you must station craisers
4iear Cape Finisterre if you are in war with
Sweden. Above 50 new ships for cruizing
have been built since this war bmn. In 1079,
there was an Order of Council that no mer-
chant ship should be cleared, without entering
iDls security to carry arms and keep with the
oonvoy. Insmance loses many of your ships:
for they will try to getaway as soon as they
ean.
poses a fore-knowledge of the motkns of
the wmd, and the other of the councils of
bur enemies ; nor can any thing be ex-
.pected firom sudi regulations, but orer-
throw and disgrace. I believe, my lordi,
that in running over the histories of the
world, and examining the originsb of &e
mightiest empires, and the sudden revola-
tions which nave been nroduced by the
overpowering torrents or war, which at
different nenods of time have swept the
powers or the earth before them, it will be
found that all rapid conquests, and sud-
den extensions of empire, have been ef-
fected by sovereign pnnces at the head of
armies which acted only by immediste
command, that few memorable actians
have been performed by delegated com-
manders, and that of those few whose
names have descended to posterity, those
hsevf ^neralty been moat successful who
were invested with the largest powers,
who acted without controul, and were at
liberty to snatch every opportunity, and
improve every favourable conjuncture,
without any necessity of commimicsting
their schemes, of waiting for the result of
tedious deliberations, or of soliciting a re-
laxation of former orders.
But, my lords, though perhaps all posi-
Chaterfield. This Bill was formed by the
merchants, whose interests is thatof the Junjif-
dom. 8oine of the ctaoses in it indeed ire
bad. It is true, that if the Admuvlty bsre not
the iuterest of the public at heart, tbi^ will sit
do their duty notwithstanding this Bill; bi
they will do moire than if there were no fsdi
Bill. Tbere ia as little oecasien lor soch a
Bill in the case of the noble lord now at tbe
head of the Admiralty as in any case ; but it n
good to restrain human nature : and we bare
seen great neglects in that office. Queen
Anne's Bill was designed to tie down fbtare
Admiralties from doin^ what a late AdmiitHj
had done. The same is the case again. 1 be-
lieve the aooounta ordered by this Bill to be
sent in, will not be looked mto : but, bewcrer
they may. The superinCendaat need not be a
new office: and pretty much the sane tbio^ is
done now. I have known governors seot
abroad, who seem to have been traaspoited by
way of lenity.
Bedford. The power in the htft dsaae a
pot not in the gofernor only; but in the go-
vernor and council.
Choknonde^. Leave these things to tbe
Admimlty. 'Hiere never was any wbaie as
fine aw oaoonomy as in every pait of our aavy,
except the roanaiag it.
Question to commit tbe ^U.
N.C. 59. AU tha bishops on that side.
aa5. . ^
7573
Jbr$eeuring Trade and, Nav^aHon.
A. U. 1742.
[758
tive pKtcripfeiopM of thie condact of mili-
tary undertakings have a tendency rather
to obstruct :than promote success, yet as
they may be ,mwn up with different
degrees cm* wisdom and s^acity, they may
liave %^ij^uv or^less appearance of use-
fulness and reason. Such as have been
well ooQoerted may afford useful hmts,
thou^ thQT oua^t not to be enacted with
indiapensable ^ligations. . And to con-
sider even those in which less proofs of
skill and foresight cau be disgovered, may
have at least this advanUffe, that the pro-
posals may not be speedOy repeated, nor
our counsels embarrassed with absurd ex-
pedients. I shall therefore lay before
jrour lordships my opinion of every para-
graph, and show wha$ are the objections
which may be raised both to the whole
Bill in general, uul tp its particular
clauses.
To the Bill in ffen^ral, it mxist be ob-
jected, that it is filled with vague espres-
Sioiis, and ideas so indeterminate, that
no man can tell when he has obeyed it.
Here are mafiy. rules ordered to be ob-
served, wh«i "there shall be no just and
sufficient mason*' for ne^ectiog them» and
.some operalioai to be performed as often
''^as there shall be occasion," and ships
are to cruise m a certain latitude, unless
^ there is a necessity of employing them
elsewhere.''
Pid not the title of this Bill, my lords,
£^e it some claim to a serious considera-
iMMi ; and did not the integrity and capa-
ckjr of those by whom it was drawn up,
cxenqit them. from cantevpt and ridicule,
I should he inclined to treat a law like
this with some degree of levity ; for who,
my lords, cau be serious when lus consent
18 dkaired to a BiU by which it is csnact-
ed, thai men shall act on certain occSp
sums, as they shall think, most expedient.
Nor is this, my lotds;, the only mstance
of piecipitaiicy and waut of consideration,
for many of the injunctions are without
say pfoal sanction ; $0 that though we
should pass. this Bill with the greatest
nnanimity, we should only declare our
opinion, or offer our advice, but should
Bsake DO law, or what, with regard to
the poiposes of government, is the same,
a law which may be brioken without
danger.
&t general objectioDs, ay lords, wiQ
naturally produce general evasions ; and
a debate may be |Nrolo9god without pro-
ducii^ any dear view of the subject, or
any satistactory decision of a single ques-
tion: 1 ^all thereK^e endeavour to range
my objections in or^er, and by examining
singly every paragraph of the Bill, shoia
the weakness of sooie expedients, the
superfluity of others, and the general
unfitness of the whole to produce the pro-
tection and security intended by iL
In the first claiise alone may be. found
instances of all the improprieties which:
1 have mentioned to your lordships. It.
is proposed that in a time of war betwcea
this countiT and any other state, such a
number of ships shall Jbe employed as
cruisers or convoys in the channel, as the.
Admiralty shall judge most proper for that
purpose. What is this, mv lords, but to
continue to Uie Admiralty the power which
has been idways executed ? What is it
but to enact that the ships shall be sta-
tioned in time of war as the commis-.
sioners of the Admiralty diall determine
and direct? . . > ,
Of these ships, it is further enacted,
that they^hall be careened three times a
vear, or ofte^er if there shall be occasion ;
but it is not declared who shall judge of
the necessity of careening, or who shall
be punishea for the neglect of it when it
is reouisite, or for the permission or com-
mana of it when it is superfluous.
There is yet smother regulation, my
lords, in this clause, which ought not to
be passed without remark. It is provided,
that the sailors employed in the cruisers
and convoys in the channel, shaD not be
turned over but to other cruisers or con*
voys; by which I suppose it was intended,
that our out-guards should be prevented
from being weakened* and that our mer-
chants should never be d^tute of pro-
jection; an end truly laudable, and wnlcb
deserves to be promoted, by some esta-
blishment better concerted. The expe-
dient now proposed seems to have been
contrived upon the supposition that the
Admiralty may not always be very soli-
citous for the safety of the merchants, and
that therefore it is necessary to secure
them by a law from the.dai^er of being
deprived of protection ; for upon the pre-
sent estaUishoi^t, the removal of men
from one ship to another must be made
by the permission of the Admiralty; and
when the right of such permission shall
by, this law be tak^i away, what new
sepurity will the merchants dblain ? The
Admiralty will still have the power, thourii
not of turning over die men, yet c^recaU-
ing the ships, and commerce su&c equally
in either case.
15 OEOEG9 It
T«T]
ittgudft Urn oomiiMitioa «r oohtojts tt a
certttin tuM, I ottn diacoyer no rewomble
ofajecti«a to fuch a provision, or none that
can pffepoodciiate againit the advantagof
whicn may arise from it. By the oertaia
cstBbliahment of coinroyst the value of in-
umaaoe may be nearly fiaed; merchaati
win know what confidence it to be re-
f^mi ia the fiicce of the abipi, and what
they have peih^hadof late equal reaioe
to examine* how much trust can be placed
in the fideU^ of the commanden.
The aominetion of conveys, niy lords, is
in Bay opinioa sMMre likely to affright our
enemies, and to deter their attenmts, than
to enoournge them by the inrormatMNi
which it win aibrd tliem ; fiMr nothing b«il
Mr own negl^ence can conceal from us
the naval stmitb of an]^ power on earth ;
and we may alwayis while we are carefid
to preserve our niarittipe\3np«'iority, pro-
to<jt our merchants so powerfuUy, that
pone of our enemiea shall be incited to
attack tliem by the knowledge of tlie
nundMW and woe of the ships appoiatad
for their defence.
• I come now, my lords, to the seventh
daose ; and surdy to ascertain the duties
of the captains to wliose protection our
trading vends are intrusted, cannot ap-
yea* superfluous to any of your lordships
who have read theiists of our losses, heard
the oemf^lainta of our merchants, or made
any enquirr into the conduct of our sear
captains. Thereis, I fear, too much reason
to believe, that some of diem have, with
prmnediti^ design, deserted tlie txadets
sn plaoes where they have known them
most exposed to the mcursions of the
enemy ; and it is to the last desree evident,
that others have manifested such con-
teaapt of the merohants, and audi a dis-
«^ard of their interest, as may most
justly expose them to the suspicion of very
crimiad n^ligenoe, of negiicence which
sio oommunity can be too watchful agdnst,
or too severely punish.
• It has been affirmed by the noble lord,
that it is not equitabie to subject the com<
maaders of convoys to penalties for the
Joss of tlie trading vessels, which may per-
Jiaps either rashly or negligently quit their
protection* That it is not reasonable to
subject them to penalties, is undoubtedly
true ; but, n^ lords, it is tor from being
equally certain, that it is not just to expose
them to a trid, in a case in which it must
be almost impossible to determine fidsly :
in a case where the crews of periiaps
tw^ity ships may be cdled as witnessss of
DdatemtheLtrrdiOHtieBai
[768
their conduct, and where none butthose
whose ship is -lost can be under die least
temptation to offer a fidse testimony against
them.
Onthis occasion, my lords, it may not be
imprcipar to obviate the objection piroduoed
by theseemingoqiisdon of pend aanrrinns,
which is onl V another proof of imptidt con-
fidence in the officers of the Admiraky,
who have dread^ the power, allowed to
military courts, of proceeding against those
who shall deviate urom their osdeis. This
power, which is in a great degree discre-
tionary, it war thought improper to limk,
by asoertdniog the punishment of crimes
which so many circumstances may aggra-
vate or diminish ; and therefore, in my
opinion, this clause is fiir from beieg so
defective as the noble lord repreeented it.
The last three dauses, by which the
shi^ in America are prohibited to leave
their station, by which it is req^ed that
accounts should be once in six montlis
transmitted to the Admiralty, and by
which the captains are subjected to tl^
command of the governors of owr colo-
nies, are in my opinion justly to be cen-
sured. Hie furst IS impossible to be ob-
served, the second is unnecessaryy and the
third will probably produce more inconve-
nienciea than benefits.
Thus, my lords, I have endeavoured to
show, that this BiU, though not perfect, is
yet such as with some emendations may
produce ereat adiwntages to the traders of
this kingdom. For though it is midoubt-
edly a just observation, that the success of
miUtary attempts cannot be promoted by
rigid restrictions and minute regulations,
yet it is equally certain, that no nation has
yet been so fortunate as to be aerved by
men of integrity superior to lawn, or of
wisdom superior to instructions; and
ever^ government has found it neoessary
to direct the conduct of its officers by ge«
nerd rules, though they have been alli-
ed to comply withparticolar circumstances,
and to give way to sudden acddents.
I think it therefore^ m^ lords, necessaiy
to propose, that this Bill shdl be more
particdarly examined in aconnnittee, tbst
after haviiig recdved the necessary ex{^
nations and amendments, it may be refer-
red again to the o^er House.
Lord Delamzr :
My lords ; the noUe duke has by
his arguments in fim>ur of this* Bill, given
ayery emment proof of his great ablhties;
he has diewn every dause in that ligltt
T69]
fir ieeuring Trade and NamgaHon,
A. D. 1744.
[770
^vluch may letet expose to view its inpro-
pvieties and defects; but has at length
CMohr shown, that it is not impossible to
xnaice a usefiil law, for the purposes men-
tioiied in the title of this Bill; not that
an^ofthe expedients now proposed will
«mrd the desired advantage to tne public,
or obviate any of the inconveniencietf of
^which the traders have been so long and
so importunately complainine.
This Bill, my lords, is indeed founded
vipon a law mside in a reign celebrated for
the wiadom of our conduct and the suc-
cess of our anns ; but it will not, I sup-
pose, be asserted, that nothing was even m
that period ill-conducted; nor will it be
sm argument sufficient for the justification
of an expedient, that it was practised in
the victorious rei^n of queen Anne«
If we enquire mto the consequences of
that law, we shall find no inducement to
revive h on this or any future occission.
For it had no other effect than that of ex-
poaiog us to our enemies by dividing our
forces ; a disadvantage of whidi we soon
found the efiects, by the loss of two large
diips of seventy guns, and a multitude of
trading vessels, which, by that diminution
of our naval armament, necessarily fell into
the hands of privateers and small cruisers,
that ravaged the ocean without fear or
molestation.
If we examine the present establishment
of oar navy, my lords, it will be discovered,
that nothing is proposed in this Bill which
is not more efficaciously performed by the
methods now in use, and more judiciously
established bv laws, of which long expe-
rience has shown the usefulness. Tni^,
my lords, win easily appear irom the pe-
luial of the orders whicn every commander
c^a convov r^pilarly receives, and of the
printed rules established by hjs majesty in
council for the royal navy.
In these, my lords, much more is com-
prehended than can properly be inferred
m a law not occasionally variable : nor do
I think any thing omitted which an expe-
rienced aad candid enquirer will think user
fui to the increase of our naval strength,
or necessary to the protection of our com-
merce.
In considering this Bill, I shall not
trouble your lordships with a minute con-
sideration of every single paragraph,
though every paragraph might nimish op-
portunity for aaimaaversions ; but shall
content myself with endeavouring to evince
the reasonableness of some of the objec-
'oos made by the noUe lord who spoke
[VOL. XII.]
first, and enfbrdng his opinion widi such
arguments as have occurred to me, though
indeed it requires no uncommon sagacity
to discover, or superior skill in ratiocina*
tion to prove, that where thb Bill will pro-
duce any alteration in our present scheme,
it will manifestly change it for the worse.
• For surely, my lords, it will not be ne-
cessary to show, by any elaborate and re-
fined reasoning, the absurdity of confining
cruisers to j^articular stations, with an ab-
solute prohibition to depart from them,
whatever may be the certainty of destruc-
tion, or prospect of advantage.
If the intention of cruising ships is to
annoy the enemies of the nation, ought
they to be deprived of the liberty of pur-
suing them? If they are designed for the
protection of our iqerchants, must they not
be allowed to attend them till they are out
of danger ?
Every one, my lords, has had opportu-
nities of observing, that there arc men who
are wholly engrossed by the present mo-
ment, luid who, if they can procure immo-
derate profit, or escape any impending
danger, are without tne least solicitude
with regard to futurity, and who, thereJ
fore, live only by the hour, without any
ffeneral scheme of conduct, or solid foun-
dation of lasting happiness, and who con-
sequently are for ever obliged to vary
their measures, and obviate every new ac-
cident by some new contrivance.
' By men of this disposition, my lords, t
temper by which they are certainly very
little qualified for legislators, the Bill now
before us seems to have been drawn up,
fdr their attention is evidently so engaged
by the present occurrences, that there is
no place left for any regard to distant con-
tingencies. The conclusion of this war is
to them the period of human existence,
the end of all discord and all policy. They
consider Spain as the only enemy with
whom we can ever be at variance, and
have therefore drawn up a law, a law with-
out any limitation of time, to enable us to
oppose her. They have with great indus-
try and long searches discovered, that
cruisers on this side Cape Finisterre, may
be of use affainst the Spaniards; and pro-
pose Uierefdre, that in all times of war
they are to be dispatched to that individual
station, though we should be engaged in
disputes with the northern crowns, or fit
out fleets to make conquests in the East
Indies.
In all our wart, a»y lords^ however ju-
diciously concerted and however happily
I [3D1
i^q
15 CS0B6B n.
DOaU in ike LorA mr Ik-^
{W»
^ooduded* the pleasims of siicoen have
j^eoD abated ^ the mortification of losses,
and S90ie complaints have been at all
times miflMJ^ with the shouts of triumph.
Hoir mu(£ soever the slory of the nation
has been elevated, the rortunes of particu-
&r persons have been impaired, and those
have never thought themselves recom-
pensed by the general .advantage! of the
public. Who have suffered by the acquisi-
tion of them; they have always imagined
themselves marked out for ruin by male-
Tolence and resentment, and have con-
cluded that those disasters which fell upon
them only b v the common chance of war,
were brougnt on them by negligence or
^e losses of our merchants in the pre-
ient war must be acknowledged to have
been more than common ; but if we exa-
mine accurately into the causes that may
be assigned for so areat a number of cap-
tures, we shall find them such as this law
will have no tendency to remove, such as
might be easily imagined before the com-
mencement of hostrnties, and such as it
will be extremely difficult on any future
occasion of the same kind^ fi^ hinder from
producing the same effects*
The first and greatest cause, my lords,
of the number of our losses, is the nundieK
9t our ships, which cannot all be suffi-
ciently protected. The extent, therefore,
of our commerce, in proportion to that of
^ur enemies, exposes us to double disad-
vantage ; we necessarily lie open in mora
oarts to the depredations of privateers, and
nave no encouragement to attempt re-
prisals, because they have few ships of
yalue to be seized. The profit of our com-
merce naturally withholds our sailors from
our ships o£ war, and makes part of our
navy an idle show ; the certam^ ^f plun-
der bcites them to turn their merchant
•hips mto cruJBers, and to suqp^id theiv
trade for more profitable exnployment.
Thus they at once increase the number of
plunderers, and take away from us the op-
portunity of repairing our losses by the
same practice.
Andy ^y lords, if the losses of our mer-
chants have been greater than in former
wars, our trade is more extensive, apd our
•hipfi far more numerous. Nor is it to be
ibigotten that a very important p^rt of our
commerce is carried on Wore the eyes (rf*
the Spaniards, so that thev may issue out
upon our merchants from their own coasts
and retica immediately bqrwddapfer of
pursuit. ^
But, my lord^ neither tbe aitnatiai of
Spain, nor the extent of our commeroe,
would have ^lade this war so destractiTe,
had not our merchants sometimes &dli-
tated the attempts of our enemies by theit
own negligence or avarice.
1 have been informed, my lords, tkat v
the masters of trading vesada complain of
having been deserted by their oonvoji, the
captains of the ships of war have, in their
turn, exhibited sucn representadoosofthe
conduct of the trading masters, as majr
prove that their caution is not pn^ortioned
to their clamour, and that in nowever me-
lancholy terms they may recount the mi-
series dTcwtivity, the calamities of rained
fiumilies, and the interruption of tbe tiade
of Great Britaint thej will not endeafou
to escaj^ their enemies at the expeoce of
much circumspection, and that toe pros-
pect of no large profit will be suffident to
overbalance the danger of |b<Me enk
which they so pathetically lament.
It is not uncommon, my lords, n^hea the
fleet ha^ entered the open seas, fiir the
traders to take difrerent courses both &m
the convoy and from each other, and ta
diverse themselves beyond the pgssibilitj
of receiving assistance in duiger oi dis^
tress: and what wonder ia it if part of
tl^em bf lost, sincQ only part of them cu
be protect^ i
It may be imagined, i^y lordf!, that this
is only an excuse fosgjed by the ^on*
menders to cover their own nttUgeope or
treachery. It may be asked^ i^at motive!
could induce the merchants to expoie
themselves to unnecessary dangers, or
what proo& they I^nre ever gif-an of sadi
wild Of gligei^ce of their own interest oir
safet^^ as mi they should be suspected of
rushtt^ precipitately intQ thi^ jaws of »
pme.
This, my lords, is an objectian spedooi
in itseb^ and such as thoiie who have aot
enquired into the praient state irf* our tnt
fie will not very readfly discover to be fid?
lacioMs.; but it may eslsily be removed, by
showing that the oanffer of bepg tskeabj
the enemy is genenuly not ao great to
those who have the dirtetioQ of ttie ship
as it is commonly beUeved.
By the present custom of inauiaBO^ taj
lords, the merchant exempts himsdf fiooi
the haaard of great losses, and tf he ia»
sure^ so nmch wthe value of tjraibip wd
paivo, that the chance of arrifu^mt^
market ia equivalent to tib^ns^mflgffi^
what shall hmder him from ercasmg fiwh
ward at aU e?ait% and meam§ hii
f7»3
fif iMftiPIg Tftmt OM TfttVipHiOti*
A. k nit.
[T71
IntrepiAy Aroiigh seas crowSM
couTse
with enemies?
It b wen known, oat lordb, that there
is, in H gteat part or mtokina, a secret
nudignltj, which makes one unwilling to
contiibiite to the advantage of ano3ler,
eren when his own interest w31 suffer no
dimijiution ; nor is it to be imagined that
this dispodtion ift less prefdominant' in
traden thaii in the other classes of the
comniiUii^, though it is exerted on dif-
ferent occasions. The envy of one part
of ntafdd&d is ezdftM by reputation, or
interest, or d%nityy or power. The trader,
for the liiost part, envies nothing but
VMmefp in whadi he has been tati^t from
his in&ncy that every human excellence
is ciftnprehended ; and contrH>utes to the
inereise ef the riches of another, with the
ttune vD&wSlii^i^ess with whidt a soldier
wococl obiieiir m the advancement' 6r an
Infciioir mEic^t to a post oi iBgiier itak and
authority than his own.
For this reason, my lords, there is ge«
n^ftdly a malevolence m the merchant
i^aiost the insurer, whom ht considers
ai^ an Ml<^ catetpflhur, fivinff without in^
doflMrtj^on the labours of others, and,
ther^nre, when he hys down the sum
stiptdaied !br security, he is almost in
aaapeiite, whether be ehoidd not prefer
the leas of the remaimngpart of the value
el'his^ vtael to the raorucostiori of seemg
Ae insitter en j<^ Aat money, nUch |kar
and eaddon have influenced him to pay.
THis'dispddtion, undoubtedly, indmes
kM to i^oceed with \^m^ i^ejpifd to his
own security, and betrays him into dangers
wbidl Hihd at Itest possible to avoid;
tour ti»^ iHiat purpose, says he, have I in-
•ortf nn^sUp, if I am not to be set free
from uMB necessity of anxiety and caution ?
If 1 ttrive safidy at the port, I shall dis-
poae 4f my contmo£ties with uncommon
advantage; if I miscarry, the insurer
win at lelst sdfer with me, and be de-
aer^edHfy punished for his suspicions and
I' doubt not bot Mne of your lordshps
win inmgme, that I am now indulging
chimerical speculations, diat I am ascrib-
ing great force to weidt motiyes, and sup-
aoai^men to act upon prindples which,
n leimty, nevef operated m the human
bi^alft. ¥^bett I think disadVdntageouriy
of oAets, my lords, lam indeed alwayi^
deaifoua to find myself mistmcenj and shall
bepisiied to htefon tfaii odditiotl firdm
any'o^ytarlordd^ps, who have conversed
as laige among maaikind^ that ttis not
comteon.^ one man to negl^bt Ins own
mterest for ffear of promoting that of ano-
ther, hi the present question, my lord^,
I have only supposed that envv may b^
one motive among many, ana wish itk
influence were so small, as that it might
have been less proper to mention it.
The practice of insurance, my lords,
whether it contributes or not to the num-
ber of the captures, undoubtedly increases
the clamour which they occasion ; for as
the loss is extended, the complaint is
multiplied, and both the merchant and
insurer take the liberty of censurine the
conduct of the naval officers, and or con*
denmin^ ihe measures of the eovemment.
Tho mmistiy n duu^^ with neglecting
the protection of commei^y widi oppress-
ing the merdumts^ and witii connivmg ai
the ehenry^s j^rejpitarations, that diey who
most eagerly sohdiedthewar, may be'thi
first that shaQ repeat it
Another cause of the fluency of our
losses in the nresent vnu*, b the general
circdation or intelli^ce tfarou|^out Eu-
rope, hf which it IS made unpossible to
conceal froin our enemies the state of out
armies, our naviei), or our trade. Eyerjf
regiment that is raised, every ship that &.
built, every fleet of trading vesads that
lies waiting for die wind, is minutely re-
gistered in the papers of the week, and
accounts of it transmitted to every nation
of the world, wher^ curiorfty or interest
will pay for information. The Spaniards,
therefore, need only regulate their scheme!
according to their instructions firom Oreaf
Britain, and Watch those fleets which ari^
frequently sent out, for they may be oon-
fklent that some masters will wander front
their protectors, enticed by avarice, neg-
ligence, or temerity, and that theyshSl
have opportunities of enriching them*
selves without the' necessity of enga^j^
the convoy.
To protect ships' which are to be steer-
ed eiicn at the will of die master, is ,n&
less iiovpossible, my lords, than to conduct
an army of which every nrivate man is at
liberty to march accoraing to his own
caprice, to form and punuehfir own plan
of operation, and to cuspute* and neglect
the ordei« of his leader. Nov is it moro^
rteonable to subject the captains of tho
ships- of War to penalties for the loss of
a vessel, over which they havte no aatho*
rity, than' to require firom an officer in
the army an account of the lives of men,
who perished by disdieying his com<*
77*3
15 GEORGE IL
Ddaie mike Lords on ike Sm
(776
In my opinion, my lords, we might,
with far greater protMibility of aucceBa,
revive a precedent that may be feand in
the reign of king William, m which it was
appointed by an order of council, that
the name of every ship which went out
with a convoy should be registered, and
that the owners should give security to
provide a sufficient number of arms, and
a proper quantity of ammunition to assist
the lung's ^ips in annoying or repelling
the enemy ; with one injunction more of
the utmost importance toUie efficacious
protection of our commerce, and which,
therefore, in every war ought to be re-
peated and enforced; an mjunction by
which the masters of the shins of trade
^ were required to obey the oirections ^
the commander of the convoy.
^ That some measures ought to be con«
certed for the preservation of our trade
I am very far from denying, and shall
wUliogly . conpur in such as shall to me
appear likely to promote the end proposed
by them* Our losses, my lords, are un-
doubtedly great, though I believe far less
than they are reported by discontent and
malevolence ; for if a ship be delayed by
en accidental hinderance, or kept back
by contrary winds for a few days, there
are men so watchful to snatch every op-
portunity of reproachme the measures of
the government, that a damouris immedi-
ately raised, the ship is taken, the mer-
chants are sacrificed, and the nation be-
trayed.
While this report is conveyed from one
to another, and like other fidshoods in-
creasing in its progress, while every man
adds some circumstance of exaggeration,
or some new proof of the treachery of the
ministry, the ship enters the port, and puts
an end indeed to the anxiety of ^e owners
and insurers, but by no means pacifies the
people, or removes their prejudices against
the conduct of their governors ; for as no
man acknowledges himself the first author
of the report, no man thinks himself under
any obli^tion to retractor confute it, and
the passions of the multitude, being once
in commotion, cannot be calmed before
another opportunity of the same kind may
be offered for agitating them afresh.
To the expectations of tlie people, my
lords, it is always proper to have some re-
gard, nor is there any valuable use of
power but that of promoting happmess,
and preventing or removing calamities;
but we are not to ei(ideavour to pacify
them by the appearance of redress, whicb^
in reality, wiH only inijrease thoM Sfik of
which they complain, nor to d^n»iha
reputation of tnis assembly b^ paasiiig
laws^ which the experience of a sinf^
month will prove to oe of no use.
Of this kmd, my lords, the BiD now be-
fore us has be^ shown by the noble locd
that spoke first on this occasion, by wbom
every clause has been discovcxed to be
either defective or unnecessaiy, and who
has evinced, beyond all possibi&tf of reply,
that the regulations here proposed can be
divided otSy into two kinds, of which one
is already established either by law or pre-
scription, and the other cannot be admitted
without fl^arent yijury both to oar nary
and our trade.
Part of the clauses the noUe duke hss
indeed attempted to defiend, but has been
obliaed by his roB^ard to reaaon and to
truto, to make such concessions, as are, in
my opinion, sufficient aiguments for the
rejection of the BilL He has admitted of
almost every clause that is imperfect, that
it may be amended by fiurther oonddeia-
tion, and that, thou^ not whdly to be
neglected, it yet requires some &raier im-
provements to become effectual to the ad-
vantage of our merchants.
The last three clauses his natond abiH-
ties and just discernment immediately
showed him to be indefensible, and he h^
coo much r^ard to the interest of his
c<mntry to attempt the vindication of a
Bin, which could not be passbd without
weakening it by impairing its naval force,
and yet more sensibly by diminjshiiig tibe
reputation of its legislature.
I hope therefore, my lords, that I thail
not undergo the common 'censure of dis-
regard to our commercial interest, or be
ranked amongst the enemies of the mer-
chants, though I declare, that in my opi-
nion, this Bw ought to be rejected as ua-
neccssary and injudicious, and ' that we
should only, by considering in a commiw
tee what no consideration can amend,
waste that time in a firuitless. attempt,
which may be spent much more uaefiuly
upon other subjects.
The Earl of Cheaerfidd:*
My lords; though I do not sp
prove equally of every, pait of the Bill
now before ub, though I think some of the
provisions unnecessary, othens unlikely to
* In atke CoDectiaD of Dr. JohasDO^ Ddiirtn,
this Spesah is enoaeonsly nMkoM tehud
Carterst
Tf] fif 9ecwrbig Trade and Ni
ni^dttce ttir beneficial etiNits, and ferae
ilieadjr Mtaolifihed by former acts of par-
Bmeot, or rules of the Adiiiicalty» yet I
»inot agree with the noble lord dbat it ia
lairoitliy of &rther conaideration.
In my opinion, my lords, it is necessary
brnany reasons, to limend this Bill rather
IwB reject it; and I h«p^ that when I
yi have laid before you the result of
liise enquiries, and those reflections which
[hafe DDtade on this occaMon, your lord^
jiipB will judge it not improper to refer it
jo 8 committee.
Nodiing, my lords, is more necessary
0 the legislatare than the affisction and
|ie eileem of the people ; all government
MOsistB in the authority of the few over
lie many* and aothonty, therefiore, can be
(wnded only on opinion, and must always
|A to the ground, when that which sup-
)eits it IS taken away*
For this leasoD, my lords, it is worthy
)f this most august assembhr, to endeavour
locoirrinoe the people of our. solicitude
i^ tfaor happiaess and our compassion
t their sufleriags, lest we should seem
fated by the casual advantages of birtH
md fortune above regird to the lower
ime& of mankind, lest we should seem
fxalted above others only to neglect them,
iodinvested with power onlv to exert it in
lets of wanton oppression, lest high rank
iiould in time produce hatred rat&r than
pva^eace, aod superiority of fortune only
iomt rapine and excite rebellion.
^ Thd Bin now under our consideration,
ay lords, cannot be rejected without
|nger o£ exasperating the nation, without
ifbcding to the discontented and malevo^
Int an opportunity of rejHresenting this
Soose as.regmrdless of the public miseries,
lad deaf to the cries of our fellow-subjects
jsagiiishingin captivity and mourning in
fovertj. The melancholjr and dejected
fill natufaUy conceive us inebriated with
iffluence, and elated with dignity, endea-
nraimg to remove from our eyes every
^ectade of misery, and to turn aside from
nose lamentations which may mterropt
heenjoymentof our felicity. .
Nor, mdeed, can it be justly said, that
nch representations are without grounds,
>hen we consider the important occasion
b siiich this Bill is drawn up, the bitter-
lesB of those calamities which it is intend-
ed to redress, and the authority by which
i is Tocommended to us.
, It may natiirally be expected, my lords,
)^ the title of a Bill for the Protection
)ad Security of Trade should raise ai^ Wr
4» Oi l14/t
[77»
Goraraon degree of ardour and attention ;
it might be conceived that ererylordiii
this Hotlse woidd be amtritioas of signa-
lizing, his seal for the interest of his coun-
try, by proposing, on this occasion, every
expement which experience or information
had suggested lo hmi, and that instead of
seHing ourselves free from the labour of
enquii]^ and the anxiety of delibemtiony
by raising objections to the Bill and re-
jecting it, we should labour with unani-
mous endeavours and incessant assiduity
tQ sujypljr its defects, and correct its im*
proprieties, to show that a design so bene^i
ncial can never be proposed to us without
effect, and that wfaeneter we find honest
zeal we shaU be ready to assist it with
judgment and experience*
Compassion might likewise concar to
invigorate our endeavours on this occasion*
For who, my lords, can reflect on fiimi«
lies one day flourishing in affluence, and
contributing to the general prosperity a€
their count^, and on a sudden, wiuiout th«
crime of extravagance or negligence, re*
duced to penury and distress, harassed by,
creditors, and plundered by the vultures
of the law, without wishing that sudh mis-b
fortunes might by some expedient be
averted? But this, my lords, is not tha^
onlv nor the greatest calamity, which this
Bill is intend^ to prevent. The )os8 of
wealth, however gnevous, is yet less to be
dreaded than that of liberty, and indi-
gence added to captivity is the highest de-
gree of hutnan misery. Yet even thiiy
however dreadful, is now the lot of multi--
tudes of our fellow-subjects, who are lan-
gui^ing with want in the prisons of Spain.
. Surely, my lords, every proposal must-
be well received that intends the preven-
tion or relief of calamities like ^^ese.
Surely the ruin of its merchants must
alarm every trading nation, nor can a Bri-
tish House of Peers sit unconcerned at*
the captivity of those men by whom li-
berty IS d)iefly supported.
Of the imm^rtance of the merchants, by -
whom this Bill is recommended to ouit
consideration, and bv whose influence it
has already passed the other House, it is
not necessarv to remind your lordsbipSf'
who know, that to this class of me^ our
nation is in4ebted for all the advantfwer
that it possesses abpve those which we be-
hold with compassion oir contempt, iS^ its
wealth and powers and perhaps- for ita^ 11-'
berty and civility. To the merchant^ my .
lords, we owe that our name is knom be-
yoiMl our own coaatSj «n4 that^owr influeocfi
fRTI
15 OEOR6I IL
Debaieinihet&rStinaiBtt.
[780
B mot eifafiMi to thi tMtum littitt oft
ti
not tboreibre, mj lords, reject
with eoDtempt what k prap^eed ud soli-
oteAbyincnafihiidMs; tnenwboseex-
perienoe sad knowledge euiiiot but have
enaUed them to oner eeiMuiiiiff iieefiu
and impoitant, though perhape for want
of acquaintance with fbmer lawi, diey
Btfy have tmagmed thoae proviiions now
feat aaggeeted, which have only been M^
gotten, and petitioned Ibr *e enaction of
a new hntr, when they rtaeikd only an en-
fbreenent of fenner ataMt«fe«
Itet oar naval ftvce hK hi die pre^
aant war, been inisq»plM^ me o«fr com-
merce has been momA to pet^ fljMiilertfy
in a degree never anown bdbre, tnat our
oontoys have been ftr from adding iecu-
li^ to onr tradersy and that willi the most
nowerlhl fleet hi the world, we have iof-
iMwdattdiat can M upon the moet de-
ftneehM nation, cannot be dbnied.
Nor is it any detfree of temerity, my
lords, to affirm, that dieie mMMtunes have'
lietn brought upon ub by oldier neglii>
gence or tusadiery; for beaidtea Aat no
odaer caoae can be aaiigned Ibr die loaftetf
which a Mwerfiil peoj^ Miftr ftem 'an
ooomy of inferior force, there ia the
itren^eel authority for aaMrting, that our
maritime affiurs have been ill-conducted,
and that therefbre the regulation of them
is very seasonably and pft>perly sdieted
by the merchants.
For this assertion, my^ lof^, we may
Bfodoee the authority of the other House,
by whksh a remonstrancKi wasf drawn up
against the conduct of tns Gommanoners
c^die Adminlty. Thisalone ought to m-
iiwsMCe u# to an aoouilttecliaoiusaion of this
Bat when an auttiority yet more
is is prddoced, when it appears
that Ms majesty, by the dismhaton of the
Commissioners from tueir emjnoytneiits,
admHsdl thejusdce ef iie^vepresdatatton
of the Commons, it asorciy cam be of no
im Mietinee, by argumeuo^ ttarnecitoity
dPflttw regeiattonsi
Is i»indeed certahi^ diet men of mte^
grity miA pruAeniee, mc« of ability to cds-
oem their' AMy, and of n^kidon to exe-
^tate it, can deceive Teiy litde assistance
fltai' fides and prescriptions; nor can I
deny what* the noble lord- has affifmed,
tlhtthby may be iMkmethnes embarrassed
hr their measures, and hindered 6om
shaidlitig o^rtunfides of success^ and
cttttM^J^g with emexfentf occasions; but,
iiy*lMras| weare to eonsUbrmanldnd,, not
as we irtwi diem, bi^ as ure find dm, Ire*
quandy^cofrspt, and always ftlliUe.
Ififnen were all honest and wile, kvt of
idl^mds would be sunerfiuoBSy a kguli-
ture woaid become usoesB, nd our ntb(K
rity must cease for want of objectstoem.
ploy it; but we find, my lords, thst Acre
iiemenwhort nothing but fanrBind|w^
naldes can tnake supportable to lodety,
that there are men, who, if they srenot
told thdr duty, vrfll never know it, and
who wtB, at last, only peiOnta wfait thej
shall be punished fi>r n^lectmg.
Were all met), like the iXoble kirdviKsa
I am now attempth^ fo«new«r,v%9aBtto
discover, Sl^jadads to distisgnyi, and in*
dustriovte to pit»ecute the kteMtof da
public, I should be vefyft^fipoApropoQtt
that th^shotdd be CoOSti'Sined by roH
orreqwedJO fiAow anjgidde bat their
own reason; I should resign my own pra*
perl^, and that of my ck&ifCrjr, RDphckly
mto their hands, and rait in fiifl iecaritf
that notfaing'would be omitted that hwit
wisdom oowd dictate fcr oar advsnta^
I am not persuading your brddifpi to
hif rcstiaims upon vnrtne and prodoKe^
but to consldiBr ho# seldom virtue lod so*
thority are fomid tO|(ether, how often nro*
denoe degenenstes uito selfiahnen, motl
generous regard Ibr die pubMc k ooo*
tracted int6 nan^ow views of prIWtteiDt^
rest. I ssta aideavourbff to show, tha
sboee laars must be equaUy obligato^to
all, it is the interest of the fisw good ma
to submit to rescraints, which, though ther
may sometimes obstruct the mflaenceof
thenr vhtne, will abundaitf y recempm
dMfm, by sc^nnring them firom die BuadM
diat wiekedness, reigning almost wtthoot
Umits, and opemidngf wiSiout opgoei^
sdaht bring upon them.
It mi^r BOt be hnproper to add, mf
Ibrds, that no degree of human wisdom s
exempt firom error; that he who dains
die privilege of aodtig i^ diicretioQ, su^
jects hfanself l&e#lse to the neeemtyar
ans^rinfffbrthe consequences of hacoQ-
ducf;Mid)M il success wifl St kast sub-
ject him to reproach and suqitdon, from
which^ he whose conduct ir regulated by
estaUidied rules, may always have an of*
portunity of setdn^ mmself fi-ee.
Fixed and certam regukdons are tber^
Are, my lords, useful to the wisest mdA
bestroeb; and to those whose dditiesv*
less conspicuous, and whole mtwi<7 ^^
best doubtAil, I suppose it wiO not be
dbubted diat di^ are in jysptoMlfl; De<^
saiy.*
H.
JirteemUig Tmie^ mul H'migl^iM'
A, a 174^
r«
SoM of the expedieou mMkteiod il»
il Bill, I shaD raidily coDcmr. widi iImi
Ue lord in ceasuring moi. re||ecUag : X
I veiy fiur from thiddag ift eypedieot tm
fcst the goyernors of our colonies with
J new degree of power, or to subject the
fisiw of our ebipf of ^alr id theur com*
pud. I have hved* my lords, to tea
m sucoessioos of those petty moimrohs».
|i have known fewwhovi I would wil-
Mv trust with the exercise of gn^ bu«
pt^. It is not uncommaPt my liMrds^
$ those to be made cruel^ find capricious
r power, who ware moderate and jpru-
Bt ID lower statioQs; and, if the efltects
[ttsltation are to be feared even in good
ijp, whstmay not be expected from it in
Epe, whom nothing but a distant employ-i
ploould secure from the laws, and whio»
||tey had not been sent to America to
icm, must probably have gone thither
y^diferent occaaion ?
Die aoble duke» who has vindicated the
1 with arvumenta to which very little
jahe added, and to whidi I believe no*
lu csQ be replied, has expressed his un-
lingpfiSBto cQDcur in any measorea for
aesecotion of which new officen must
I'.sppointed. An mcrease of QAceii»
lords, ia indeed a dzeadfiil sound, a
^ that cannot but forebode the nun of
I eomtri ; the number of officers al«
ij established is abundantly suflb»ent
sH naeful narposes» nor can any ad-
0n be made bat to the ruin of our con*
am therefore of opinion, that no new
per was intended by those that drew up
a KB, and that they i>roposed only to
lAh those that loiter in our ports, at
I expenee of the public, with an op*
iHonity of earning th«r salaries by some^
ifaleDipkiyaeDt .
Iknow not indeed, my lords, whether
fgood effects can he reasonably hoped
Isftthis provision; whether men accus*
Cto connivance and ne^igence in
of less importance^ ought to be
liled with the care of our naval prepa*
tisM, and engaged- in service, on whidi
H prosperity <tf&e public may depend,
id cannot conceal m^ apprdbensions,
Ht such men, if commispioned to si^'-
IB^ ethers, may dicmsdvea require a
Wintendent.
W, my lords, tfaia and every other
Inaeiaay in a committee be carefully
Ramuied and deliberately corrected; and
M it appaan evident to ne^ that some
m k aecessary for Uie security of qoa
commerce, I thuik tbia Bfll oiqAt not to
be rejected without finther conMeration.
Lord Winchdsea rose again, and SQid:
My lords ; as the fcpovn sisMritai
of that noUe lord allows no roam for SIM*
pectins^ that he woold bestow any piaisaa
where he did notbelieve there waa aomeydeo
aBi*t,and«s his pptetiatien and acuteittsi
secure him from being deemed by any
folse appeaiancea of merit, I cannot bnl
applaucf myaetf for having obti^oed Ua
esteem, which I hope will not be fosfeilMi
by my future jeeoduct.
Havinp^ happilv gained the vagifd'or so
exact a judge ot manlrindi I am the kse
soUeitous what opinion may be eonoeived
of my abilities or .intentions bv theae
whose censurea 1 iem foar, and whostf
praises I lesa valuer and shall therefim
cheerfully haaaidany degree of popukiity
which I may hare hitherto posseascd, by
contmuing mj^ opposition to this Bill, «
which I am still canvinced that it will pi0*
duoe nothing but embasrassment, loasei^
and disgrace.
Theaeceasi^ oCgidning and prescvaii^
the esteem of the people I very wilUn^w
allow, but am of opimon that tfaou^ it
may sometimes be gamed hj flatteriM
their passidns and oo^ying wtUi their
imnortunities^ by fobe appearances of n4
liet and momoitaiy alleviationa ef diaiv
grienmcet, it is only to be prasarved byi
real and pemanent benefiUi, by a i
attention to the gieat ends ofgovaumwpt^
and a vkoroua proaec^iitioK of the^aaeana
by which they, magr be obtained^ wati
regard to present prejudices or \
damours. . .
I believe, my lords, it will always ba
fouDMlihatit is' daogiBraMi'to. gratify the
people at theilr own emenics^ and to aa^'
erifioe theilr intereat te their canricaa; foe
I haye so high a venei^ilbn at dieii wisi4
dom, aa to paoMonce widboHt acsupls^
that however they may for A thne be da*
oeived by artful nrisrepaescptations, tfaq^
wiUat kSigtfa kam to estnem theaa most,
who have the resolution to promote dmie
happinM ih dppesilrai tp their peeju-
dices.
Iiam thmfore e6nfideBft,nqr lords^ oi
regaining the popafaurjty which X may. loaat
by ' daehiring enoa mom tha* this Biit
ouckt to 1m rejectedl, aii^oeno endeaaoM|
ahailbe wantmg to ah<wr. howr little-iti*
niBoeasary, by w e&dual jprotactiQa^oC
evevy put Off omr trade, and i^diligent pr6«»
vision for. the. natal servi^
7g8] »GEOS6BIL
The Duke of Btdfird :
My lerds; I am oonyinoed that
Ais Bill 18 very fiir from being either ab-
surd or ttsdeia, nor can imagine that they
by whom it was dirmwn up> could lail of
producing some expedients that may de-
aerve consideration.
It is probable, that a fiurther enquiry
Biay diow the propriety of some clauses,
which at peesent appear iQos^ liable to
censure; and that, it we reject this Bill
thus precipitately, we shall condemn what
we do not fully comprehend.
No clause aippettredto me more un-
worthy of the judgment and penetration of
the merchants thim the last, nor was there
imy which I should have rejected at the
first penind with less resret; yet, having
taken this opportunity of considering it a
aecond time, I find it by no means inde-
fensible, for the direction of sh^ stationed
for the defence of our American territories,
IS not committed to the governors alone.
The copncil of each province is joined
with them in authority, by whom any
private regards may be overborne, and who
cannot be supposed to concur in any di-
lections whicn will not promote the ge-
neral interest of the colony.
I doubt not, my lords, but other daoses
have been equally mistaken, and therefore
think it necessary to consider them in a
committee, where every lord may declare
his sentiments, without the restramt of a
fermal debate^ and where the Bill may be
delibenitely revised, and aooommodEtted
mora exactly to the present exigencies of
the
Debehin the Lords an IheBUl
[784
Lord Winchdsea:
My lords; the only reason which
has been urged for considering this Bill in
a commitlee, is the necessity of gratifying
the merdiants, and of shewing our con-
cern for the prosperity of « commerce. If
therefore it dmli appear, that the mer-
dianta are indifferent with regard to its
aucoeas, I hope it will be rqecM without
fmosition.^
I was thia mon^ng, my lords^ informed
by a merchant, who has manjr opportuni**
IMS of licauaintm^ himself with tlie opi-
nions of tne tradmg part of the nation,
that they were fully convinced of the im-
poBsibiiitjr of adapting fixed rules to va>
riable exigencies, or of ettablishing any
certain method of obviating the clumces
^ of war» and defeating enemies whp were
every day altering their schemes ; aad de<
dated that they had no hopes of leoirity
but from the vigilance of a bosrdofAd-
miiBlty, solicitous for diewel£Effe of the
merdiants and tfie honour rf the nalion
Lord Cholmondeley :
My lords; as three clsuses of this
Bill have oeen universally given op, and
almost air the rest plainly proved by the
noble lord to be eimer absurd or super-j
fluous, I cannot see why it should not be
rejected without the sdemmty of fartberj
consideration, to which indeed nothiogbotl
the title can give it any daim.
The title, my lords, is indeed speooos,
and wdl fitted to the design of gaining au
tention and promoting popdarity: bat
with this title there is nothmg tliat cor-
responds, nor is any thing to be (bond bot
confusion and contradictions, which grow
more numerous upon fSuther search.
That the whole Bill, my lords, is nns^
cessary, cannot be denied, if it be coasi*
dered that nothing is proposed in it wbicb
is not already in Uie power of your lord-
ships, who may call at pleasure for the
Hsts of Ae nav]^, the accounts of tbe
cruisers, the duties of thdr connnisioRs,
and the journals of Ihdr commanders, (»
you did in the 6th of queen Anne) m
detect every act of negligence or tr»*
chery, and every instance of desertion or
of cowardice.
Nothing is necessary to the regulatioa
of onr naval force, but that your lordtbipi
vigilantly exert that power which is coo-
fonred upon you by tne constitution, and
examine the conduct of every officer
with attention and impartiality; norm
then will dare to neglect his duty, becaose
no man can hope to escape 'punishmeDt.
Of this BiU, therefore, since it is tboi
useless and inconsistent, I cannot but sus-
pect, my lords, that it was concerted for
purposes very different from those men^
tioned in the title, which it has indeed
no tendency to promote. I belie? e, mj
lords, the projectors of it intended not so
much to advance the interest of the mer-
chants, as to depress the rq^utation of
those whom they have long taiiien eveiy
opportunity of loading with reproaches,
wliom they have censmred as the eneoutf
of trade, the corrupters of the nation, m
the confederates or Spain.
To confirm these general calamniei, it
was necessary to fix on some particular
accusation which might raise the resait-
ment of the people, and exasperate thm
bqFoad reflection or enquiry. For tbs
f85]
JijT uemimg Trade and Nav^aHon*
A. D. 1742*
[78tf
puqxMe ttotluDg wm more proper thikii
Co charge them with betraying our mer-
dianta to the enemy.
As no acciuHUion could be more effica-
doos to inflame the people, ao none» my
lordty could with more difficulty be con-
fated. Some leases .must be suffisred in
every war, and every one will necessa-
rily produce complaints and discontent;
erery man is willing to blame some other
person for his mofortunes, and it was
therefore easy to turn the clamours of
those whose vessels fell into the hands of
the Spaniards, against the ministers and
commanders of the ships of war.
These cries were naturally heard with
the regard always paid to misfortune and
distress, and propagated with zeal, be-
cause they were n^rd with pi^. Thus
in time, what was at first only the outcry
of impatience, was by malicious artifices
improved into settled opmion, that opi-
nion was diligently diffused, and M tlie
lones of the merchants were imputed, not
to the chance of war, but the treachery of
the ministry.
But, my lords, (he folly of this opinion,
however general, and the fidshood of this
accusation, however vehement, will be-
come sufficiently apparent, if you examine
that bulkv cdlection of papers which are
now laid before you, from which you will
discover the number of our fleets, the fire-
WDcy of our convoys, the stations of our
toips of war, and the times of their de-
partore and return ; you will find that no
provision for war, no expedient likely to
promote success, has been neglected ; that
we have now more ships equipped than in
the hoe war with France, that nothing
can be added to the exactness with which
our maritime force is regulated, and that
there is not the least reason to doubt of-
the fidelity with which it has been em-
ploved.
In every war, my lords, it is to be ex-
pected that losses will besufiered by pri-
vate persons on each side, nor even m a
luccettful war can the public always hope
to be enriched ; because the advantage
nayariie, no» immediately from captures,
but consequently firom the treaties or con-
ations in which a prosperous war may be
<Qmsed to terminate.
what concessions we shall in this war
extort from the Spaniards, what security
^ be procured for our merchants, what
*ecompenoe will be yielded for our losses,
^ what extent will be added to our com-
merce, it cannot yet be expected that any
[VOL. XII.]
man should be able to declare ; nor wilf
his majesty's counsellors be re(}uired to
give an account of futurity. It is a suffi-
cient vindication of their conduct, and anr
evident proof of the wisdom wiUi which
the war has been conducted, that we have
hitherto gamed more than we have lost*
This, my lords, will appear from a dili-
gent and minute companson of the cap-
tures on each side, and an exact compute*
tion of the value of our losses ana our
prizes. It will be found that if the Spa*
niards have taken, as it is not improbable,
a greater number of ships, those wnich thef ^
have lost have been far more wealthy.
The merchants indeed seem to hav^
distrusted the streneth of Uie' evidence
which they produced in support of their
allegations, by bringing it only before the
other House, where, as an oath could not
be administered, every man delivered what
he believed as what he knew, and indulged
himself without scruple in venting his re-
sentment, or declaring his suspicions, a
method of allegation very proper to scatter
reproadies and eraUfy malevolence, but
oivery little use tor the discovery of truth.
Had they come befi>re your lordships,
every circumstance had been minutely
examined, every assertion compared witi^
other evidence,ful exanerations repressed^
and all fisreign considemtions rejected,
each party would have been impartially^
heard, and it would have plauuy been
known to whom every loss was to be im-
puted. The negligence or treadiery of the
commanders of the convoys, wherever it
had been found, would have been punished,
but they would not have charged them
with those miscarriages which were pro*
duced only by the obstinacy or inattention
of the masters of the trading vessels.
Such enquiries, my lords, they appear
to have thought it their mterest to d^ine,
and therefore did not proceed on their
petition to this House ; and if they did in
reality avoid a rigorous examination, what
can be inferred, but that they intended
rather to ofifer insinuations than proofs,
and rather to scatter infamy than obtain
justice?
And that nothing was indeed omitted
that could secure our own commerce, or
distress our enemies, may reasonably be
collected firom the number and great
strength of our fleet, to which no empire
in tte' world can oppose an ecjual force«
If it has not been supplied with itoilors
without some delays, and if these delays
haine given our eaemies an opportunity ot
78T]
16 GEOK6B IL FurOer
adding to their tecuiMes of tottiffii^
ihek pons, and supplying their DM^aBines,
It muit be ascribea to the nature of our
•onatitutioD, that forbids all oompubonr
asethods of au^inieDting our foroes^ whicL
aaust be considered at perhapa ^ oaly
inconTenienoe to be tarowii intO' Ikie
balance a^nst the blessings of libeitjr.
The diffioulty of manning our shipa of
war» is indeed extremely pe^)texing» Men
are natur^y very little inclined to aiibjecb
themselves to absolute oommand, or to
^{tage in an^ seryice without a ftimo
Iknited for thcar dismission* Men cannot
wiUingly rush into danger widiout the
fiospect of a laiige advantage; they have
generally some fondness for theiip present
state of lifo» aiid do not quit it intboal i««*
hictance. All lliese reasons, my lord^
eoncur to withhold the sailors lirom the
Bavy» in* which they are necessarily' go*
¥emed widi higher authority tfaaa i» tiad*
ing vessels^ in which they ave subfeoted to
punishments, and confined by stritst regu«>
lations, without any oertain ten» of their
bondage : for such they, who kaow not
the necessity of subordination, nor dis-
cover the advantages of discipline, cannot
but account subjection to the will and
orders of another.
By serving the merehant»« they not
onty secure to themselvea the liberty o^
changing their masters at pleasure but
enjoy the prospect of a near ahd ceHain
advantage ; they have not indeed any ex^
peetatiooa of being suddenly enriched by
arPlate-ship, and of gaining, by asm en»
g^ment such wealth as will enable them
to-sp^d the rest of their lives in ease and
afihience ; but they are aure of a- speedy
payment of their wages, perhaps of some
profits firom petty commerce, and* of an
opportunity of sfuandering tliem at land
in jollity and diversions; dieir ItfxNV ia
cheeky, because they know k wiU be
ahoit, and' they readily enter iilto' an em*
ploVment which they can quit> when it
shall no longer please themb
These oonsideratioos, my lords, have no
influence upon the preparations of France
and Spain, where no man is master of his
own fortune, or tine, or lifei, and where
the oflficera- of die state can driVe multi^
tades into the service, of the crown, with*
out regard to their private views, inclma-
tioiw, or engagtaneats. To man a fleet,
nothing is necessary but te lay ai^ ein«'
ba^ on the trading veasris, and suspend
thear commerce for a short tkne; therefore
Maian daiaaiafiiio to evler iatothepub*
Uo service whan ha ia stimmnnad » »qr»ig
he should flv, as our sailors* from an an-
press, would any num vantuse to sbshes
oip ooaoaalhiosk
Absdutomooaaohs havo IhsrofotutMa
advantage over ua, that thev can be Boanar
pveparai for war, and to thia nuiat be aa*
cribed all tb% success which the- Spnnistds
have obtained. This* my lords*, wfll not
be obviated by the Bill now befote ua, noc
will it indeed proonre any other beQfl& t9
the trade, or any addition to the power of
the nation*
Of the ten claMses comprised ift tlie BS^
the greatest part is universaUv allowed te
i be ia jodieioitfly and eraonaous^pieeoaed;
* and those few, which wore thought or more
' importance, have been shown tp contaa
no new e;ipedients,nor to add any thing
to thepseseot regidatiens^
I cfmnot therefore discover any venaon^
my lordiy that should induce ua to rc^v ta
e committee thia Bill, of i^ich part is con«
fespecUv to-be rented, and the rent ia sp-
pareatly superfluous.
Then the Question being put, WRetfier
the Bill should be referred to a committee^
it passed in the negative. Content 25.
Not contenf 59;*
Faift*PirBH Rsronr vaoHr rmm Com*
BrfpTsm- OIP SneMcT APPdnrrn^ to
BWQvnMS INTO tH0 CoUfDJSCT 09 Ro-
BmtTi Ba^rl 01^ Onponn.] Aine sa
Lord' Limerick pnssented to the Honae of
Commons^ a further Repoi^of the Com-
mittee of Secnaqr, whioh he read in hia
place, at foUovm :
A Further REPORT from the COM-
MITTEE OF SECRECY, ap-
§ointed to enquire into the Con-
uct of ROBERt Earl of OR-
FORD, during the last Ten Yean
of his being ^rst Commissioner of
the Treasury, and Chancellor and
UndeivTreasurer of his Majestj'a
Excbequeiv
Your CoaKnitttoeliaivit^ in their former
Report^ laid before thfe House die ob-
structienatheynSBtwilb'in the coarse of
their enquiiy^ andfindii^ that- the Lordb
«" On the rejection of 4^ fiUl hy the Lonkr
a Bill winch related to an affair of no less imadr-
Unce than the secarity of *( rade and Kavig*-^
tion, and which had been ut^animoasly p9sstd'
by the Commons, it wasaatirically remarked,
that the Upper House odd'erstsad trade and ns-
'inbsttsi^thsatiieLswer.'* ^
hukTAsmA tocoiiow in tin oMns piv-
pMtd bf lliiB HLo^m to- rmtM9% them, by
Mfeoting tte Bili for JiidfaMiiffiag wxax
Dersona as shally upon examination^ make
4isooveciea taudiing the dispontion of
fnUic money, pr ooncemin^ the diapo-
aition of effioaa, or any paynento or agm-
aBema in mpaot tlieieof» or conoarning
taher aaatteni ralatinff to the Con.dnct of
fiobart earl of Orford, have not thoo^t
it adviaablo to enter upon any new matter
rehiting lo the taanaagtiona of die earl of
Oiford. B^t ea, pwviona to the rqeottng
cf tile aaid Bill hy the other Hoaae, they
had aefvnd matten before them of die
tngheat eooaequence and importanoe to
the sncoeaa of the war with Spain, and to
the domeatic OMenemy and good order of
the fcingdoHh to the payment of the troopa
abroad, to the ffeedom of eleotiena at
home, and to the quantity and method of
JI.D. 1T4&
[790
ittuiflg puUic mon^ for the aeeret aer-
ticea or tho state, m aH wliich the aaid
eail appears to haire had the prkidpal, if
not the aolo dkeotion ; your eemmittee
diOQ^ it their afaooiute ioKj to lay theae
matteai before die Houbo, and were pre-
paring to do it widi aa mueh dearnesaand
penpKoity, aa die many noterioua diffi-
cttltaea and -diBcooragementa thia enquiry
has laboured under woddpenait. But in
die exeontion of this daaign, they were
acain inlerrapted by anew and unforeaeen
cMruotioD to one of die most material
ptinto in queation, whioh therefore, toge-
ther widi the odier BMilterB alnyrtt-meft-
doned, they fold themaelv«s under a ne-
eetnty of layii^ before the House.
^ Aa the ^goroua •and aoeoeaiful proseou*
diu of die war io America aeema to hanre
heen die great ohjeet of the imerelta and
incBnadon of die people of Great Britdn ;
sad aa an expedition to o eVanite mtiSiB'
taat and dpngeroua, mnvt unavoldrtAy be
sttsnded with an immeaae expence oeA
«f aisn and laensy to the naden, yeur
ctauaiitee therefore, oensi^toring how es-
MotiaAy it muat afieet the glory of his flia-
)«t^a aama, end Um }i:Mdoe due tethis
MlMn, tiiat tbeae of their eoantrymen,
who cheerfully undaslook a aenrioe, where
dia enemy waathe kaaB danger thwr were
cxpoiedto, Aooidbe juady and folfypdd
fos gitat aama saifed to support them,
we thought it their duty to enquire into
die oentmot made for aupplying hia ma^
jtfty'a forcea going upon die expedition
^lerdCathoait, and to examine whe-
«oithad been MaUiahed on die moat
footy fos-trecqpaao
pee^iiaily deaerrhig the care and attentioti
of the public And in proceeding therdn
Your Committee find, that die money,
or ratlier the carre^oy of Jamaica, is or a
leai ralue than aterlmg money ; and, by
the examinadon of merchteta, it appeara,
tiiat for aome years before the commence-
ment of the war with S^ain, the rate of
exchange between Jamaica and England
waa from IS^ to 140, but generally at 140^
v^ry few bills having hwa drawn under
that rate; that is, persona at Jamaica
generally piii4 \¥A. of the ^rrenc^ of
that country, fpr a bill which inUded
them, or their agents, to 100^. sterl* in
Eoglancl. «
Your Committee fiod, that on the 9th of
July 1740, the folio wing proposal was
made to the Treasury for fumishiog money
at Jamaica for the expedition under lord
CaCheart, by Peter Burrel and John Brit-
tew, eaqra. members of thia House.
To the Ri^ht Honourable the I^r^i
Coipmissioners of his M^esty'a Trea-
sury, the Proposal of Peter Buirel an4
John Bristow.
^ Hiat they are.ready te furnish at Ja-
< maiea his majesty's foirees going upon the
* int^ded expedition with lord ^Cathcart,
< with an V sums of mon^, and at the titnea
* which the sertioe shall require, at the rate
* of lOtf. sterL for erary \9QL paid at Ja-
> maiea in tiieourranay of that idand ; that
< theaum of 27,000^ bepaid to them be*
* fore the departure of thetroops, they f ui^
^ nishing their bills at sight on Jamaica for
* the- amount thereof, at the above-men^
« donedraieof lOOiLsterLfor IflO^. Jamaica
'ourreney. That the subsequent pa vments
* bemadeupontheir produomg the depoty-
.* paymaster's bills or receipts, who shidl be
^ direeted to give the same for the sums
* thi^ shall receif« fv6m dme to dme.
Xoadba, Jidy 9, * P«T«i BuRftxi/L.
1740. * doHM Bri8T0w<*
TUa proposal was the aame day agreed
tt' by the eommieBionera of die treasury^
die^ofOrford being then present at
the beard, whioh appeara the more extras
ordinaiy to your committee, because the
oooMiusaionerB of die treasury (had thej
thought 'fit te enquire) must have found,
that tor aeveral months preceding the ilate
of thia propoflid, aH the bills drtiwn from
Jamaica for ^e aerrice of hia nujesty'a
navy wad ordnance, were drawn at die
rate of 14CM. for lOQ^ sterl.
Your Coaniitee^ also obswYS^ diiafcsl
791J
le 6E0KG£ XL FurOer Bepm^ ofiht CmlmiUe tfStcnof \nit
%ht time of tbe delivery of this liropoMl,
it could be do secret to Mr. Bunnell and
Mr, Bristovr that the exchange firom Ja-
maica was 140/!. for your coitunittee find
in the minutes of a court of directors of
the SouUi-Sea company, when Mr. Bur*
rell sub-goTemor, and Mr. Bristow deputy-
governori were present, the following
order:
Friday, March 16, 1738-9-
* Ordered, That it be referred to the
< committee of correspondence to consider,
*and report their opmion concerning the
' exchange from Jamaica, which is now at
* 140/. for 100/. sterl. and yet the com-
< pany are not credited for the dollars,
' pistoles, and bar-gold, more than when
* the exchange was at 135 per cent'
The circumstances which preceded and
occasioned this extraordinary transaction,
as far as your committee have been able
to trace them, are of a very singular na-
ture ; for it appears by the examination of
captain Alexander Wilson, who was agent
to lord Cathcart, when he was preparing
for the expedition to the West Indies,
That in May or June preceding this con-
tract, the pmoaster-general communi-
cated to lora Cathcart a method of payioff
the troops, which his lordship approved
of; this was by sending a sum ot money
hy the deputy-paymaster, who was to at-
tend tlie expeoition, and impowertng him
to draw what Bills should be necessary,
And directing the troops to be paid at Ja-
maica, at such a rate of exchange, as
ahould appear to lord Cathcart and the
superior officers to be most advantageous
to the troops; and it being intimated
Mome time after to lord Cathcart, that a
contract for paying the troops, at 120/.
Jamaica money, for 100/. sterl. was then
depeoding before the treasury, he imme-
diatelv procured a meeting with Mr. Han-
bury Willliams, paymaster of the marines,
Mr. Burrell and Mr. Bristow, with a view,
if possible, to get the troops paid in a more
advantageous manner, for he did not ap-
prehend the contract was at that time pass-
ed. At this meeting he mentionea the
inconveniencies whioi might arise from
the paying the men at a rate so much
]ower than the known exchange, and the
danger there was from what he had di-
served abroad, of its producing discontents
smd mutiny ; and after severd arguments
jraised on both sides, their meeting ended
on Mr. Burrell's or Mr. Bristow's dedar-
jpgi that they bad made an 9gree|iient
with the treaniry abeady, on die tens of
120L Jamaica money for 1001. slaL
and that they could not do it fiv less
profit
From the examinations of Mr. Bumft
and Mr. Bristow, it appears, that they
applied for this contract to the eari of
Onord, and to no other person ; fi^r when
it was publicly known that the troops were
going to Jamaica, Mr. Burrell anqu«int<^
the said earl, that he bad cortespopdents
in Jamaica, on the South-Sea company's
account; who were men of great ciemt,
and had tbe greatest commaftd of money
of any in the place, and he thought, iT
money was wanted there, he could supply
the government as well as any body; imd
that afterwards, considering the ffveet im^
portance of the affiur, he thought it too
much hazard for himself alone, and men-
tioned it to Mr. Bristow, and th^ toge-
ther settled the terms of tbdr proposal ;
and slMut the month of June, 174!^ the
parliament being then prorogued, they
waited on the ear! of Orford, and proposed
to him the same terms, which were after-
wards agreed to by the treasury ; the said
earl asked them if these were the lowest
termsi^ and hoped they would not ask more
than was reasonable, or what any body
else should complain of; that be would
not take it on hmuelf, but desired them
to make their proposals to the treasury,
which seems to your committee to have
been entirely matter of form; for it ap-
pears, that when this proposal was acootd-
mgly delivered to the treasurv, the gen*^
tlemen cannot secollect to whom it was
delivered, nor when, nor by whom they
were informed of its being accepted; nay,
one of the sentlemen even does not re-
member, whether they themsdves meoiL
with the proposal when it was presented.
And your Committee havme also exa-
mined Charles Hanbury Wifliams, esq*
a member of this House, touching the con-
versation that passed between Mr. Burrell,
Mr. Bristow, and lord Cathcart, at Mr«
Williams's office, have also added his ex-
amination to the others in the i^pendiz,
to which they beg leave to refer.
Your Committee cannot find that any
notice or intimation was given to any
person, except what passed between thte
earl of Orfora and the oontraoors, as is
before mentioned, of the intention of the
treasury to make this contract ; for it ap-
pears by the examination of James Kxiigfat,
es^. tliat when he heard the troops were
gom^ to JaQU|ica» lyid was lold tm Us%f-
HSf]
on Mr Gtmibid of ike JEmrtcfOr/M,
A. D. 174S.
[78*
my would oontiact with prifnte penont
Mr payiDg them, he did himself inteod to
Bake an oiEsr of furniahing the money.
Hit in a very Sew days after, he heard toe
nssiny had agreed with Afr* Burrell and
fr. Bristow, ot the rate of 1201. and
e did not believe the treasary ever gave
sy notice of their intentioos to make any
icb contract. That what he expected
w not a formal public notice, but that
tahould have been communicated to mer-
hiDts, as he baa heard has been practised
I qaeoi Anne's wars, and had this been
tmie, he believes several besides himself
rodd have proposed, and that he himself
mold have Amdshed the money at 1901,
m cent for 10(M» steriing, and ahould
ate thoiq^ it a good baigain, provided
acoold have had the same iponey ad-
woed to him which he has heard was
dffSBced to Mr. Burrell and Mr. Bristow;
bat after the first difficulty, which would
e on the arrival of the tro<ms, was over,
a did not doubt but he comd have con-
rtcted with the people of the ishnd to
iniisfa the money at the rate of 137{,
od tf the whole money was advanced to
in here beforehand, and he was only to
ttd it over and furnish it at Jamaica at
he rate of ISO/, per cent, he thinks he
kodd make i2, or 15 per cent, per
BDum of the aums he furnished, by re«
ining the same money twice a year*
This led your Committee into a com*
ItfatiOB of the profits which might have
sen made on this contract, which they
SBceive to stand thua : if the value oif
M. sterling be sent to Jamaica in moi-
Incs, it appears they will produce
4SL ion. Jamaica currency; but by this
pntraot, only 120L Jamaica currencv
lai to be paid at Jamaica for every lOOZ.
lerling received here : to this 120/1 Ja-
nica cunrency, all the necessary charges
mat be added, which your committee
0Dceive to be IL per cent, commission,
I per cent, insurance, 1/. per cent.
lei^ and } per cent, fbr the charges of
kipping; in ail, 4<. 15s. per cent, which
a ISOC Jamaica currencv, is 5L I4a* of
be aune currency, in au 125/L I4f$. Ja-
Mica canency. So that the profit to
a made on sending moidores, was the
Bferenoe between 125/. 14«.aod 143/. lOf.
rbich it 17/. I6s* Jamaica currency, or
^•8f. Idj. sterling out of every 100/.
teding, which is 14/. Ss. 2d. i per cent.
^ling. And your Committee observe
kit if half of the sum sent had been in
is aad thirty-sbiUiog . pioQes». and . only
hdf m moidores, 100/. sterliBg so .
would have produced 141/. Jamaica cur«
rency, which is only 2k lOf. Jamaica
currency less than moidorea alone would
have produced.
Ana your Committee cannot help ob»
aerving, that if the treasiiiy. had though^
fit to send in moidores to Jaasaica, on the
account of the nublic, the same sums of
money which toey actually advanced to
the contractors, then every 100/» sterling
so sent would have produced 14S/i 10f«
Jamaica currency, except what may be
allowed f<nr insurance, which your com*
mittee is informed amounts to about 2^
oer cent, on money sent by ships of war»
Nor could fi-equent opportumties, have
been wantbg of sending, on bovd his
majesty's ships, such farther suf^lies of
money as might at any time havebeoi
necessary for that service. But if it had
been thought more advisable to have sup-
plied part of this expence by draughta
from Uience, there can be no doubt but
that the deputy-pajrmaster being furnish*
ed with a proper proportion of specie
from hence, would have been able to keep
up the exchange at 140/. and in that case
no char^ would have attended that part
so supplied.
It fiirtber appears, that in the course
of this affair, and before the departure of
lord Cathcart, still greater indulgencea
were granted to the contractors ; for by
their first proposal the sum of 27,000^
only was to be advanced them by the
treasury before the departure of the troops,
but the subsequent payments were not to
be made to them till they produced the
deputy-paymaster's bills or receipts : and
yet on the SOth of September following,
which was before the departure of the
troops, 12,000^. was further advanced te
them by the paymaster-general, for their
bill of that date; and on the Ist of Octo-
ber 9,500/. more was advanced to them
by the p^master of the marines, for their
bill of the SOth of September ; and on the
23rd of December a sum of 12,000/. was
advanced by the paym9ster-geoera], for
their bill of that day's datet and on the
6th of January, a fiirther sum of 9,O0OL
was advanced by the paymaster of the
marines for their bill of the 31st of De*
cehiber» All in consequence of mini]tea
of the treasury.
Here your Committee cannot help ob«
serving that the paying these sums amoui^
in^ to 42,500/. over and above the 27,O0OL
origioallj edvaiioe4btf<m iboieMLihuen
ns]
16 GBOIGE n.
9mf 6idmMKDgmtMJoaiimfmtm£4ikm quop
traoCon, alterod the Bttfeme of Ae m&n^
moty^nd nndered it •mnchjiioie bciMfi»
cial-lhaB •■ it wtm originally pnopoied bf
the contracton themrares.
Mr- Bunclaaia, he4id offer 4beJialf of
luB ■have to hit brother, and ai^entlenaB
engaged ia bmineBt widi Ihaoiy but 4htjr
thought it toa greata ride fordieaito ran i
he likewiae aieptieoed it to another gen«
^maa {whom lie *did oot 'natte) who
Wbuld not accept of it, that. theie refiMh .
were very early, before aajr thing mm
done in H, more than paninc the eon-
traeti and that he tnMitioned theoa, to
ihear that he thought he had no groa|
bargain of k. And from the eaamiaa-
tionof Mr. Burrel and Mr. Bristow, it;
fiirlher imearB,' that tome <jne a%er the
making of the contract, they offired Mr.
Monson, a member of this Houm, one
fourth pert of it, as fiur as it related to the
payment of the troops in the ofice where ;
he is deputy, which he aocepted of, and
has shared accordingly <|he fm&ti oifthis
contract from 4he £eginaing ; and some
lime after the earl or Orfora mentioned
to Mr. Burrel, that Mr. Hanbury WiU
Sams had desired to speak to him, Mr.
Burrel, that one of Mr. Williams^s friends
might have a share in the remittances, '
but he added, you are to do just as yea
please, I do net ask you to let any body'
m, for the contract is yours; and soon
sAerwards Mr. Hanbury WlttiaaiB ^oke
to the contractors, and told Ihem, that he
bid a relation, one Mr. Hanbury, a West
India merchant, to whom he had obliga-
tions ; and ai he had money and efteto at
Jamaica, he desired he mmit he ccooeftH
ei one fourth part with them for the li^
ture, wlueh he iias accordingly been, hi
what relates to the payment of ttie marines
in Mr. Hanbury Wiiyams's office. '
And it appears to your Committee, that
aeilher the one nor the other of those
gentlemen advanced any money, or were
eoneerned in the nianagement, but were
to be sharers of the profit or loss otAy.
And it forther appears to your Commit-
tee, that on the arrival of ijhe troops at
Jamaica, and the tendei4Dg the mon^ to
Aem at IfOJl Jbrnaica currency, great
d&eontents were impressed by the eifeere,
nad some actualif refosed to receive it,
and with time the discontent inoreased,
and nothing was talked e#so much among
w officers of ^ aiaiy, at the hardfMp of
iMiag pakl «| }«o^ when the exchange
^*"»'a»afiiifceveiwaBe et taesa beeanut a
aahalarer,and rmnpkhaidimkili6L6fc
on eierjr JiQQL Jie baiag paid hii IM. ^
moneys arith ^ meidBni, which k
pethmitf. Ms.ated.attwhiehaB.
W the Iflllem af iPoUmb md
geaend Mreatw«iah;aearaly wsBs da iieia
afiord Cathosftweafied.
And this aneasnam among the tnwpi
was gpBa% incneased by the peremptoif
afiisal af the i^ents at Mr. Barrel ad
Mff. BfisUnr, to finish the depofy-pij-
asastsr ^t lemahn arkh any maaey i^
their enedit, arising, as Mr. Criebioke
aafain UsieHer of the iOth ef Fsbruaj,
1740, (&8m ijhdr vimn ^ appropnatiw
the profit to themsehras, and ben^ dsnU
irithahefroqpaet of getting 15 or ^per
oent.dn^ead ^f S par ceat. iisir connii.
rion. Upon this the deputy-papmitKr
took ap money firom oriier penom ad
gave them hitts an the paymaster-genenl;
and though theia were, ^as appesis bj the
axtnots of letters ef the dspulT-pajmK'
tar, of the dOth of February, and the 2Srf
of Alaroh, 1740»'l,conibinationttodiaRa
him, yet the first bills lie thus drea vere
at the rate of IStf. and he, by degnei,
saitad the eachange, so that at hst he
drear at 1402. \iriulst the treeps still coiHi-
auadtobepaidatldqf.
^^nd-itfurtlier appears to your CoBnk*
tae,ihat oathe 5th of Jane, IT4<l,there«
entered in the treasury4M>okB the Ibfiof
ingmaittta:
.<< Mir Bristotw, one ef the remiltenier
the Weat^Indies, is oalled ia, snd to-
quaiats my lords, tfiat he and Mr. Bsrrtl
haia disohaiged sneh of their ^uimvA
a at Jaaiaica, as nasbdiaved tbea*
ires in iheir aondnot about suppiyiflg
Ae money &r
service theiet
m the pid>lic
and that as gatteral Weatwevtb ha im-
plied for the troops to be asid sttheatt
of ^S6 per eent. he will tate CBie thst the
famittaaee shaB be made aeooiaiD^j''
Aad eathe iMi of Jaly leMomog^tlte
oeramissioneia of the tnasuiy W» ^
order, *f^ That Messrs. Btwie) sad Bmto^
pay the troopa #1 Amerioa at thenteoi
1£52. Jamaioa oorveaoffbr iOO^sted. to
the 3t4h of April preoedmg.^'
Haw yoor Ceaunittee dbssrre, os ihii
aew contmct, firstoraposed 0Dthe5tha
June, 174il, and fiuially legakted on the
lOth of July Miowmg, that Mr. ^
brooke, thedeputyvpq^nasterst Janaka,
did an the 24thaf F^b. preoediog, beB«
laweeksbefoia the eetdiag of t^ <>^
eontmot, dsaw biUa on the f^fBom^^-f'
itMd tatha aaaiui^af IfiffA aU aft ««
w
CM the Camtua of the Earl ofOrfard.
p(gl30Lmidii ia his letter of the
|i of March before mentioned^ ao(|aaiat'
p pajmaster-geqecal that he bad hazily
leroooie all opposition, and could aaaure
'm on good grouoda that whatever money-
||ht be neeessary to be caiaed for the
ynce, would be foiuid at Jamaica, for
b on the payoBster-geiieral for l$Oi^
A upward^ and this last letter is dated
Cv0 (en weeks before Hieproposal of Mn
ipsl and Mr. Bristow,. to amend their
atracti and aboi^ fifteen weeks beforo
H finslacceptation of that proposal by the^
■wry; and it is worthy of observatioB
gt ia the months of January, Febr-uafy,
Cicb^ April and May^ preceding the
^ in which this second contraot al IQ5L
y^eitablishedby the treasury^there-^nvre
mm from Jamaica, no less than 99 bills*
albesemce of his majesty^ navy, most
^em at the rate of lS5k and tti0 r^
0ader at the rate of 140^
^^ it appears to your Committee, that.
tend bills amounting to the sum of
lj0L lis* were drawn oh the paymaster
ij^eHMirines by his deputy, bemreen the
Jfii of Feb. 1740, and the 1st oi August,
ilU part of which bills amounting to
|H(M» were drawn in the month of F^
|inrj|, preceding, the new contract ; that
r) btltg were paid by Mr. Burrel and
Bristow, and that money was issued
tflidm for that purpose by ttie paymasteif
I the roarinesk But, your committee
not been able to discover at what rate
^change they were drawn, nor does it
ar whether Mr. Burrel and Mr.
have been allowed to take the
arisiDg from the difference between
the rate of the contract, and the rate*
[change the bills were drawn at.
fAoA it further i^ipears to your Gom-
{Ittee, that the bills drawn by the deputy-
Ipnasterfirom Jamaioa, on the paymaster-
pneral, when the s^^ts of Mr» Burrel
|i Mn Bristow retoed to Bxv^^y him,
IMKiQtuig to the sum of 29^16/. Ss. Sd.
id which wem* drawn in the months of
ybiuary and March, 1740, and in April,
bgr, June, July and August, 1741, at-
M. 1S5/. 137i^and at last at 140/. were
IMfor payment to Mr. Bittrel and Mr«
kteow, and also that money was issued
jom the pay office to them to discharge^
biaidbiUs; idthongh it does net appear
^ your oomnuittee wnat pretenoe of rigjht-
k contractors could have to the fvoStV
jfrngfrom any of these^ bitts» after the-
lAitave of tfaeb bavg^ l^ the refusal
f lh«r agent9 te funaiah tfie^depii^IMyr
Meis at Jamaica.
A. !>• 1*HJ. [rT»
But though these biUs were thuspaid byr
Messrs; Burrel'and Bristow, yeC your eon^'
imittee find that on the It^th of Deoember
ilast, the paymaster-general made a re^e-^
'sentation of tkis- matter to the treasury
preying, ar direction oiP the oomnusaioaes»
, whether the profit or diftrwiee arising hy
tbeexohange on the said bills* sBeahbb»
accounted for, and paid ta the mg^tx^^
the> said contracjtorsy or reserved in- the
haada of his deputy fop the user and benefit
of the publio>: and your committee SnA'
the following minute' in the beohe^of tk)»
treasury;
WMiMa», I^'^istfrf.eUtt^W, JMS D^
' * Read Also' to my Ibiidk a meai6ti0
* fh)m tHi^ saitiepaymasit^r, dated fJ^lsT^*
* iti'st. r^iifing to the r^itttoce of pay^r
* me loops' itt' Ametiba, with tesp^dt t6'
•the' Jamaica' currtttcy, attd orderbd dr*
* copf thereof to be sent fo iKe rteiitteri^
* for their answter tHercto:*
To which the remitteva gove^ in their'
answer, in which it is remarkai>le^ that m
stating the several chaiges upon sendingi
over specie to Jamaica,, they make oti»
charge in the following words ; three per
cent, commission we pay in Jamaicarc»
whereas it appears by umr examinatioM^r
that they paia one per cent» onlv to' their
agent) Mr.' Colebrookcf for* tae monej!^
sent out with lord Cathcart*
This answer was received on Ae'^tb ef
Feb. last, and nothing, appears to have*
been done upon it while the eail of Orfocd*
continued in the treasury.
•Your Committee have be^' obliged tor
dw^ the longer up<Mi this^ eontraoty* be*
cause the whole behaviour of the earir of
Orford, w1k> had the sole direction- of il^
seems so' extraordinaryi that they fear thie^
parted* their .rep^NTt would want credit)' iC*
thcQF had not descended into the saostnu-
nute particulars of it.
Here they find a contrect entered into
uj^ the good' ftnth-of the proposfrs^odljri
witb an ignorance of the rvalue' of the ex*
change, whetlier real or aieoted does not
appear to your commictee ; and that de-^
feet so far finom beh^ endeavoured to be-
supplied, by admitting proposals^ or iafor«
raatiofi frott any othef merchants,, thaft il*
seemed $t determiBed*pdiat'td shut it es%i
ev«a "when it seemed 1f9 eblfUde^ MIS*
upepUra, firdrnthevopy offices-aubjfttHNT;
hieiMpeetien.
Btt»'«Bt if this ii^ury to the troopMnd in*-
justice to the nation, had I — "^^ *''^
tgg]
16 GfiORGE IL Furiher Report ofiSit OmiiiUee^Sienai
he rendered this contract more advn-
tageous to the contractors than their most
ganeuine expectation originally suggested
to &em.
For though by the terms of the contract
the public was to advance 97fiO0L only, in
money, yet we find the farther sum of
42y00tf. advanced to them before the ar-
rival of the troops in America.
And your Committee observe, that the
shares of the profits of this contract
were dealt out to the deputy of the pay-
office^ and to a friend of the paymaster of
the marines, at the request of the said
paymaster, without any aidvance of money
or trouble on their part, and it is very re-
marinble that these shares were confined to
the sums issued from the respective offices.
And here your Committee must observe,
from the whole course of this proceeding,
that neither the interest of the soldier, or
the public, seemed to have been the object
of the earl of Orford's attention.
The cries of the injured soldiers, who
had lost one day's pay in seven, where
provisions of all kinds bear an excessive
price, made so little impression, that the
only relief they obtained was an advance
of their pay upon the contract from IfiOL
to 125^ though there had been drawn
upon the navy*office» duringthe six months
precediiw, several bills, none at less than
1S5L and some at 14tf. and though the
deputy to the paymaster-general likewise,
19 weeks before, had drawn upon the office
at 190L and 15 weeks before had written to
die naymaster-general, that he raisht de-
pena upon being furnished with whatever
aums should bewantedat ISCMLandopwards,
nor could there be any reason to fear a
dtsappomtment, in relying upon those as-
auraaces of the depu^-paymaster, beouise
to his care wholly it was owing, Uiat they
were not disappointed upon the refosal of
the contractoor agents to furnish him wkh
money.
Tour Committee cannot bat obaerve
that die treasury, in establishing this new
oootract, iHiere the contractors proposed
the advance from 190L to 12SL to oom-
asanoe from the 5th of June, 1741, order
it with a retrospect, and to commence from
the Mth of April preceding, and are great-
fy at a loss to find if the first contract was
upSBi just and equal terms, why die eoQ«
tncloia anbinitied to any advance aft all;
«d tf it was not ugna equal tenna, why
the treasury did not extoid their i«tr»>
qiCGft, and order it to be rectified liM the
And so little was die pubEc to ivail
itself of this injustice to the soldier, that
when the contractors could fanUi do
money at all» firom their agentirefanngto
answer their credit, and conseqoendy &e
contract was dissolved, and the shdj most
have starved, if the deputy-paymaster,
who is the c^oer of the public, had Dot
procured money by draughts upon the
pay-office, at 190, 185, up to 140 Jamab
currencTt for lOOl. stming; yet thoM
very biUs were sofiered to be paid bj the
contractors, and public money issiudto
them to pay the same, but by whose
orders does not appear to your commit-
tee; as if the pronts arising firom thead*
vanced prices of those bilk, drawn by t
public ^cer upon the public^ had b^
longed to the contractors.
And your Committee observe, that wheo
on the 15th of Decemb^ hnt, the paj-
master prayed directions firom the trea*
sury, wnether the profits <m those biiJs
should be paid to the contractors, or re-
served fi>r the benefit of the public, cm
that could not be (Stained, w&le the oH
of Orford remained in the treasury.
Your Committee now proceed to lar
before yon, tfie great part which Ae evl
of Orford appears to have had in several
transactions which neariy concern the
fi-eedom of elections, anjl the indepen-
dency of parliament, and they ha?e the
greatest reason to believe, that hsd the
persons emj^oyed in these dark tiansac-
tions been properiy indemnified, manj
discoveries would luive been made of the
utmost importance.
Your Committee having in theirfonner
Report laid before you the ahare which
Mr. ftzton and Mr. Lawton had in car-
ryinff on prosecutions relating to the bo-
rough of Orford, and particularly that
Lawton had declared, that he did not pre'
tend to say he riioold not be re-iobursed
his expenoes on that head, thbk fit dov
to acquamt you, that Mr. Abrahsm Fv •
ley being examined, said, that about
January, 1736, Mr.Lawton told him there
was an order made out at the tressut}'t
in his Fariey^s name, for 1,900L aod
bid him go and receive it, which he did,
and paid it over immediately tothesaid
Lawton*
And Mr. RkkardBmh, upon his eo*
mination, aaid, Hiat Jolm Lawton, esq. ot
the exdiequer, appeared to be bis client
in the proaecotiona rdating to Orford,
tiiOQgh he did not know what idatioo Mr.
Liwloai had to Haa boroiig^of Orfoid, bJt
Mi; tHsiftlie^tiHli^ EHf of lieCkv 8,0069.
lU^r tlilftMd'; Aifte Mh'. LttWtoh, Paxtbo*,
iksihe (ttM^M) iMi «ic^ tt, atld aflet* a
m4 dM df fMe- dl^ed 1^ cfxathih«
*e bifl, tRfejr dtl*iw fS» c)f Dtecfember,
I7S6, eamtt' tfcK a* siriM^^ dccoant, when
tiH*re watt a M&Md^ of 1,200' ahd odd
floandr itf hiK (Banks'W) fkvour. Which
Bffr. tAtrton agi^e^ h6 Wbtild pay ia a
ftrtmgftt*l^tln»^, and'h^did-iobii afterpay
50W. to^ Faxton, who paid BartleiB lOOf.
thereof, aitd promised- soon to j^ more,
tie remaining 700 and odd pounds have
not been yet paid; thiit he (Banksr) did
about two yeat^ ago ffle a bilF agidnrt
Fwtoii in* chancery, to bring* him to* an
•ecoant ; that in this bill Mf . Lawtxm was
ffladea^dMfendanty and that Lawton in his
taswer dtd swear, that he detlifpiied' the
WL in his^ hands, to reimburse himself
^^ was' due to him ih>m P&xton, and to
*cure th« dBOL stSll unpaiii to Mr. Mas^
ftmisn for his bill.
Mr. Letmnrd Marfin^ an attomeV; Hn^
Etiierwith his father-in-law, Mr. Aoeton,
Dg examined, said, that he has been
ebRceroed'in several suits nbout the- bo*
i^ of Colchester, and timt'&e had hH
chief directions ther^n from Mr. Daniel,
an attorney at Colchester, dioo^ Mr.
lawton aonietimes interflHvd, and' that
'Km afttar Eawton's death, he received a
i^terfHini Dunie), tVni he received 1S3/.
for fines, to^ which the nrbsecutors were
^trttedi that he believed he adtftied- with
I^ton abqaf fhimUg- a petition to the
treasury for the king's reinaminfl( two thirds
^ the fine, that Lawton (%mo seemed
^ dewroniJ of surcdssin the affinr of that
J^IJoration) approved oP it, and he bcr
IJ^ Lawton might say he would spettU
Joatit, that he (Martin) thereon dre^
*e draught of a* petition, and sent it ta
"«niel to get signed, and on its return he
Poured a warrant from the treasury, di-
Bftcring Pixton to pay* him 2801 that the
warrant was dated the lOthof July, 1741;
^ that he received the money on the
aWh of January last, and did' imagine
Jese prosecutions were with a view of in-
n^ifencing the election, and to turn the bb-
JJ^gn, and to get out the mayor, and get
«e rfetummg officer.
By all this it appears that the ma-
™?ement of this aMir WW lodged in the
^ of PixttmVpartstet imdiKwi-i*i*l««r,
flrid CM ei9im<5(tt'iimaffing it wer^ te psMt
I^ by t:h^ sbid PiBMottin constouen^
of a^'v^arttattt of tte treasury. But though
tbtf 6(Mhmitlee hert^ met wit^ a fteeh
miK^Uk^e 6f tine solicitor of the treasury in*
tertMddiiil|t ^ niatterfc relatmg to difec-
tioDs; yel thi^ didnotihinkfit to examine
hfm again, havihg liftte' relison to expe<it
h^ would nMlfe mf dfeco^^Miss after the
otftei" House hodi^ected the Bill by wMeh
he ^ould h^e beett bdi^nified. AxA
ybilr coftimitl^e csxmot determine whitt
eovM induct tAie ead of OHbrd to continue
'Bilxtoii itt his o£tc^ upwards of 11 years>
and to sulbr hitii to defer &ccountrog foi^
tSAf peat of the large siAns, which wer^
fWim timw to titike' issiled t6 him tiH'thtf
9tlk' of Februalry last; and theri to account
fbr two years only in so precipitate a'msibr*
iker, but musfH suDMit to 1^ judgment of
thi(« House, whetlNer ^kt mdi^g^c^ wtt^
owing' to a cifimind'n^j^leet, oil to a mori
eriminid oon^ed^aojr.
Your CosHnittee now proceed to U^f
before vou a transactions relating to tm
borough of Weymouth.
Jn9r. MichdTa' nrordcNi Bcang eitamnie^
ttia» That hef was Mtf&t of Weymooti
Bmii Mdcomb V6^ in Ae yeai* 174<!&
ThUt Oft ilie leUt^ dtty of June; in that
yeair, Mr. j^ortef alidf Bfr. Ohnidft caM
down n» \^eyhidafh'; dbat Mr. Peane a^
I^i^ to him (jWdanYand denied hitrtoti
aiid interest f6t hinnelf and Afr. Olthiti^
lind two others mjfettOf whom hie did not
name ; and toldlmn at the same time, that
there would be a lettef produded^ obliging;
hial and liir the officers' in' tlie setvite td
vote" for Mr. Pearse dndliis firiendl. Hial
then MV. Peane desired him to go witii
Mm in prkete : liiat whte tl^ey were alond
Mr: PeMe Md he waa desirous to hav^
th^ t:orpor«don ftUed tm, and that a I&II
should be odled' for that purpdse. Anj
]>e f uitfa^ rebueste^ that he (Joitlan)
woiild' men hmt ( m Oltnius) end somii
•Ifaer friends ; btttMh Jordan rffdsed t«
meet Mr. Ohntus; add' then Mr. Pdatsg
1^' him. ThUt on thfe 18ih of June» Mi?
Pearie came to his houile about no6n, andt
iiAd him, that if he would ebme into tb^
meas^tres of him (P^iarse) and his fnenda»
and fill up tiie corporation, in order td
bavd a- netuftim^rnfficer, or words to that'
effect, he had it m coBBinission to slty, thatf
he (Jordain) should have the collection of
the port of Wejrmoudi in a mondi's time,
and* a letter from sir Robert Walpole,
mide^lntf owlittutf^^ la laite'gbod Omv
t3Fa
fiOS]
16 GEOJAGB IL FurOer Jtgwrf ^ihe Cwmifi0e ^JUfreca {BM
iironuse. Mr. Peane then went from' hii
Aou8e» and returned about four of the clock
of the same d^y^ and brought to him a list
of such of the revenue officers as were to
be disi>laced. He took this liat^ which was
wrote in Pearse's own hand, and read it
over; and after Mr. Pearse was gone, he
wrote it down from his own memory.
And it appeared to your conunittee,- by
this and the subsequent examinaticmsy that
several of the persons therein named were
displaced accordingly. And Mr. Jordan
fiirther said, that on the same day, as he
thinks, Mr. Pearse told him he did not
doubt of prevailing on Mr. Charles Taver
and Mr. John Carswell, who were alder-
men, and others, that he should wait upon
them and convince them that they were
going against their own interests, the in-
terest of the gaveroment, and their duty
to his majestv; aiyL again pressed him
(Jordan) to nil up six of tne vacancies
with friends of his (Pearse's) who are
most of them since provided for. That he
iiuther told Jordan, that if he was sure of
the retuming-officer, sir Robert Walpole
would send down two other candidates.
That Mr. Pearse soon after went to Lon*
don, but returned to Weymouth oa the
90th of June, and sent a message to him
(Jordan) by Mr. Richard AcbuUmot, de-
siring to speak with him at captain Tiz*
sard's; but he (Jordan) told the mes-
•enger, that Mr. Pearse. knew very well
where he lived, and he should not go to
the captain's house. That the messenger
replied, Mr. Pearse had a letter from sir
Robert Walpole to shew him. That when
Mr. Arbuthnot found that he would not
go to Mr. Pearse at captain Tizzard% h^
told him he would go and fetch the letter,
and accordingly went and brought /^e
letter, which he (Jordan) read, and took
It to be addressea to Mr. Pearse ; the pur*
TOrt of which was, that whatever Mr.
Pearse promised to him (Jordan) sir Ro-
bert Walpole would make it good;, and
that Jordan's brother-in-law, Mr. Franklin^
a cleigYman, should have the first living
that felly in the gift pf the crown or the
aeals, worth his acceptance* That with
much persuasion he did meet Mr. Peaise
at Mr. Tizjsard's summer-house : That Mr.
Pearse there shewed him this letter agam,
and told him it >Ya8 sir Robert Walpole's
letter, that it was signed R. Walpole, and
he apprehends it w^ aU wrote in tlie same
hand with the signing* That at this meet-
ing Mr* Pearse told him, you have four
aldermea Aow absent, I would bav« you
caUahaUi
he replied,, he thought Mr. Peaiae hsi
been long enough acquainted with him to
think that he would not be prevailed imon
by base means to betray ^finends* And
he further said, that oa the 19th of Sep-
tember, in the same year, being two di^
before the election for mayor came on, a
letter was produced to him from the com-
missioners of the customs, importing, that
his deputation as a land-waiter waa simer-
seded, and Robert the brother of Richard
Arbuthnot, who £rst brought sir Robert
Walpole's letter to him, was to aacoeed
him ; and he said he had been employed
in the custom-house ever since the year
1712, and had )>een land-waiter in the
port of Weymouth from the 4th of May,
1729, to the time of lus dismissioD.
The Reverend Mr. Frankly beli^exa*
mined, said, that on the 1st S ivHy^ 1740,
Mr. Pearse being then at Weymouth, seat
for him to shewhinf, as fie said^ how mudi
he had his (Franldyn's) interest at heart;
but that he was sorry to tell him he was
afraid his brother Jordan would ^oil aU
his endeavours to serve him, for that Mr.
Jordan had promised to come into his
(Pearse's) measures, but now attempted
to evade nis promise; but, however, Mr.
Pearse, to convince him what a friend he
tntended to have been to him, diewed
him a letter, which was signed R. Walpole ;
the purport of which was, '* Yoa have
given me so good a character of Mr. Jor-
dan, that wluitever preferment you shall
think reasonable to offer him, shall be
made good^ and as for his brother in law,
Mr. Franldyn, he sliall have the first living
tliat he will accept.. pf which falls in the
fift of the crown, or the seals.'* That Mr.
0arse, at thesame tune» told him, that he
expected his brother Jordan woidd call a
haU and fill up the corporation ; whidi he
(Franklyn) took to be to get a retuming-
officer. And Mr. Pearse said, since his
brother Jordan had reAised hinwhehad
nothing to trust to unless he (Fdipklyn)
could l^fluence him; that he told Mr.
Pearse, he did not like the affiur and would
not meddle with it, and Mr. Pearse then
replied, if frdr means would not do, foul
must: and he thought Mr. Pearse ex-
plained what he meant by foul means, for
he said he must have at their charter : and
he thinks their charter has been since at-
tacked ; for three months ^ler Mr. Pearse
attempted to set up a mayor in a manner
contrary to the usual custom of the place,
and ^x• Pearse's friends h^ye filed several
80»]
M ikeXiomhet ^ihe Earf qfVi^dJ
kifbrtnationi in the king's bench agunst
the corporatioii.
!Z%€mai Peartey esq; being exsmined,
•aidy that some time bdbre the last general
e1ectiofif» Mr* Joyenx ef Weymouth was
sent up to London bj his (Pearse's)
firiends, with tf scheme for the removal
•nd pnimotion of selnefal* officers of the
revenue at the port of Weymouth, with-
out ^HiiCbalterations, though he (Pearse)
iumself might ' be ' diose at the general
election) yet it was impracticable to carry
all the four members.- Part of this sieheme
was to remove William Clapcott» esq; from
being goremor of Portland Castle, and
Mr. Itichard Tucker from beins receiver
of the hawkers and pedlars, ancTsunrej^or
of the king's quarries in Portland ; which
last, with the salary of SIOOU per annum^
and 40/. for a clerk, was to oe divided
between Mr. Tizzard, the then collector,
and Mr. Bryor, which alterations took
place ; that Mr. Olmius generally trans*
acted with sir Robert Walpole every thing
^M>ut the election ; that he (Pearse) ap-
piriieaded that all the reaNOves that were
to be made were with a view to influence
the Section ; and Mr. (Mmius and he went
together to m Robert Walpole to consult
OD measures for carrying on the election,
but he bdieres that the scheme was not
aheawid sir Robert Walpole but only talked
erer with hicb. He iurther said, that
when he was at Wejrmouth m the sununer
1740, he was tokl by Mr. Jordan, the
tiien mayor, if he was made collector in
the room of Mr. Tizzard, that he would
10 up the corporation in order to choose
a retmnmg officer against the general
election ; but that he (Jordan) would not
afunk of doing any such thing unless he
^saw a letter ci it under sir Robert Wal-
pole's own hand: that when he came to
London he did acquaint sir Robert with
Che deaiBe of Mr. Joidan, and he (Pearse)
had a' letter from him, the purnort of
which was, that whatever friends Mr.
Pearse should recommend, he (sir Robert
Walpole) would endeavour to provide for :
that he is well acquainted with sir Robert
Wa]poIe*s handy and believes the letter to
be oif his writing : that Mr. FVanklyn, a
defgjrmao, brotber-in>law to Mr. Jordan,
wasjparticularly mentioned in the letter;
sir Kobert Wtdpole saying he .would use
his endeavour to get him any living that
dioold become vacant in the gift of the
crown, or of the lord chancellor: that he
(Pearse) returned with this letter to Wey-
BMWti^ and 4iAiibfin it to Mr. Franklyn,
• A. D. 1748. • [8(W
and he^ briieves to Mr. Jordan, and he
thinks it was in a conversation he had
with Mr. Jordan in Mr. Tizzard's sum-
mer-house; but that Mr. Jordan flew
from the proposal, sa3r]ng, employments
might be given one day, and taken away
the next ; which much surprised him, and
in a day or two he quitted the borough
and came to London: that he did not
know but after the election was over he
might say to Mr. Franklyn, Have at your
charter: that he did not know what was
become of sir Robert Walpole's letter,
but he believed he has since burned it.
That when he returned from Weymouth^
after Mr. Jordan's refusid, he odled oa
sir Rob^t Walpole, and told him he had
bcpea disappointed in his scheme ; that sir
RobeM encoon^ed him to proceed, and
he was told by Mr. Olmius, that sir Robert
Walpole had recommended to him' (Ol-
mius) Mr. Chohnondeley and Mr. Flum-
mer, to join with him (Olmius) and that
he (Pearse) did join with them.
John OmitUf esq. being examined, said^
Tlmt there was a rough scheme of itera-
tion in the offices of the revenue at Wey-
mouth, which was talked over at Mr.
Pearse's, and was intended to facilitate
the election at Weymouth : Aat the per-
sons who were mentioned to be advanced
bad all interest in Weymouth; that he
and Mr. Pearse were with sir Robert
Walpole to desire that the surveyor'a
olace might be 'ghren to Mr. Tizzard and
Mr. Bryor, but he does not recollect if
the whole scheme wbs shewed to sir Robt.
Walpole or no ; nor can he recollect sir
Robert WiUpole'sanswer about the scheme;
but sir Robert Walpole was very slow in
promoting Tizzard and Bryor : that Mr.
Olmius had an old servant whom he wanted
to provide for, and he told Mr. Tizzard
ana Mr. Bryor that, as he had so much
trouble to get them the place, he ex pected
they shoiud give his servant 50?. per
annum, which they agreed to, but it naa
not yet been paid, for they have not as
yet received their own sauuies: Uiatsir
Kobert Walpole said one day to this exa-
minant, that colonel Cholmondeley and
Mr. Plummer were very good men, on
which Mr. Olmius said, he would give
them all the interest he could.
Your Committee find that though these
endeavours of the earl of Orford to influ-
ence the- voters of Weymouth, and to pro-
cure a proper returmng oiBcer by thua
placing and displacing Uie officers of the
r6ven,tte«.didat U^t time prove iaaSictaal i
|07j 164JB0MJ9IL rm*Slf^fkp99fifitfiCmmt^ifim^^ EM
yet jmt Mm ^n foleOioD WWO^i aiii»>
tber attempt was made i9f the aamf natiire»
tbough with as litUe sucqw ^ .bjf^e.
]Por, Mr. Ez^kid Pomtgrmt chief <d^r^ to
the drac of the cheque atSeptfordybeiog
examined, said. That, on or about Monday
the 27th of April XJ^l, ei(^t or ten (days
before the Wevmouth 0le«;tion caipiie on*
the nerereod Mr. Moi^n .came to bis
bouse at Pq>tfoid, between fiye and m
o'clock in the voonung, 9o4 adced him if
he was wiUisuf.ti9 go op^ a parti<;ul%r mes-
sage tP ^r. Tu<^er a> Weyipouth, wbich
would be pf singular fcfidqe to Mr. Tacto
as w^l as f# bim (PpiBfnraf ) ; that be aor
aw^r^ he. fr%^ villipg f^ do i|s^ thing
whipb cpuld. b^. ff #n V sprnoe ^tbcv 0
if r. TMcker or bimseK but tbat ba mml
havel^etp be absent. from du^: Mr.
jiorgan tol4 hi^i be waajppiog %o town to
wait on sir Robert Walppuo, aod he would
return as soon as possibly; ap)l abouf twio
9'clock in tbf fAemppn pf th^ saiyp day.
Moi^an retinrppd to- him af»ip, and tola
him he had got leave fpr bw* fpr m Ro-
bert Walpol^ .b»ii ^ritff Q a lettpr to sir
Jacob Ackarprth for l^aye^ that sir Robert
had enquired much of M^orgao wbo Vo*
if»^t9j was» and if bp migbt jkia safely de-
pended 9n; and that Mprgan wd bp^had
answprpd to sir Robert Walpole ^r bif fi-
delity ; and b^ween thrpp ^oA ioxff o'clock
in tlie afterpopn pf thp sanpp deyt.hp (Po«
iperoy^ cape to tpwn with Mpqgan, who
oarrieuhim tp theCrpwn tgvfm behind
the Efohange, wbeve ib^j mpt Mn P)^
mius, and Ijipy threp dined tpgetbar ; and
after dinner Mr» Qli9iws tpld him (Poikie-
Tov } that hp found by Mr. Morgan he was
wiwng to gq cp a message tp Mr. Tui^er ;
he (Poaneroy) then asked hito, what the
message was, and Mr. Ohnicis told him* if
he would ^o down tp Mr. Tvpker, and tell
him that if be would buit agree to take
hiait (Qhnius) Mr. Pearse, and another
friend who was not meptioned, he. (01-
mius) way commissioned by sir Robert
Walpo)e, to assnre bim (Tucker) that
every fUend of his that had bepn displaced,
ahotdd have their places again, or any
others that Mr. Tucker should please to
ask; and as for Mr. Tucker himself, ho
should have any thing he would be pleased
to ask, and that if he ( Tucker) doiJbtad of
the veracitv <rf'the message, and either he
or bis brother would come to town, tboy
ah^d b« fully satisfied of the truth pf it i
•»d that h^ (Pomeroy) was not to com-
"^^L^^ri? this massage to any persons, but
tp tbP ZiMskan^a^d bia ^Pomerpy's) la-
tl^, ifVi» M *»«tP* M|»owstipr, jbati^
then out ; upon this he qbSMrved tolfe
Obnini^ that Mr. Peane, who m^ ha
patron, was tbpa in Dorf^tahine, tbat W
would wonder lo aee bin^ af4 vpid4 mI^
him questions; and he dewed to kpoa^
he migbt be M libeity to ocqisaiDt \m
(Pearse) with tbp fiiessp^ On tfaip )dr,
Ohpuus said hp irpu)4 ynA^t»^t. ?^9m,
and he did w^itp 41 \i^m to biia> which bs
^Y^ unseated to hop,. ^Ppmpipy) wU
read it two or three lmps» aad i^ ww a
i£o)low8:.
< Sir, Mr. Pomeroy comes on a spedd
< message from our good friend 8. R. W.'
(which he, PomeroY> said he undentood
\a mean ^r Robert Walpole) ' which mes-
* sage he h not ^ con^onicate to anj
< bmly, but -those to whom he is leM,
< therefore ask him no questions ;* but be
* assured that nothing shall be done or
' transacted but what e^aM be for yourio-
« terest, as well ^s fpr that of your bumble
< scnrant, John 0lmius.*
InpomaiiiiaviBPof tbi% fcp<POTsroy)
set out ppat tbp PPiat ffipnmg* .vbiah v«
on TopldfOFt for Weyasonib, and arrivsd
therp pn W^iiflFda y M nipe inUhpnooH
ing; thpt bP wiut«4 pn Mi:. Tattkar, sai
fopnd "bim ppd bia brotbar both logstfasn
be tpid 4hiw tbp piprtipiilpas pf the snsr
%99e from Mr'Qbaii^.andiipiirasaBsw
ad by Mr. Tapker, ibat a pppmsI afdat
kind waa ateohiiply tpolole, tbatUsvsit
and hononr was ^Pgpged, Pnd ba irsiiU
pot gp fnam it fo/ apy (t^ofidpiatiaa. He
fartbpr said, that Mr. Tiieber asUd bimif
he bad brought any letipr firpm air M^
Walpple, to which he a^ Np. Ha te«
ther said, that Mr. Mcma and MnOk
mius had oftpntpld him»tEatifMr.Tocbr
and bis friends refiiipd tP pgrep with Kft
Olpnni, and join Apir intprast to kiii it
would be the total nm of Mr "Swiuf^
his brotbar, pad thp ^varUwoiF of tti
pbarter.
JMn (Hmmt ea|. hawgaMin ewaisiA
and not rocoUeatJag aeivwral tbiap pIu»
had been mpntipoad by Mr. Penerqjr, filr»
Pomeroy was caUod io» aod be rsMSted
the same evidence wbicb he bad brfMa
given, and the piinntaa taken bj( the deck
of that evidence Were also lead io the ist*
sence of Mr. Olmips, who then i«icolfect»
ipg himself confirmed the same: Aadfia*
tber said, that he did pommuniflSle tstf
Robert Walpole his intention tp wd/
message to Mr. Tucker ; that he (old b^
be haa got Mr. Ppufteaqi^ vhp Mil "»
BBfyf Mr. Tvelceiff, to 9» ^onm jId im
pjwOiwftiiJitbiiiiiii iitfitw ftoltertMdL
rallmeansdo. Tiun be t«U «ir KoiMnt
ri#0k tj^at a Mr. Tndfcer mm^ iei#wD,
t^mwqwNMe 4(beir«if» hit <8ir fttbm^i|
Nhwoe 3rp«id li^ MeeMTf te the m-
^tkagofUtj, Tlicfa»r'« fiwDNb; Itiiitfiir
iiM Waipde wU» ji v«» a very ffocd
K«i;ht» thU to wmU do cveiy Mug
lilb|r in bi^ ftmtr t«.aerm Iwa aid Us
littiss •d4 tW lhi»^m ttesdhHanw
Tl»«Mir> Idnf.Jaht JVfot^lheng aa-
liMd»«idMi|; jSMiilf reoolbotuig none
nOHPsMPfs flwHtittDod l^r Mr. Ymsa^
If, te'vW •rdefed to yttiBnd tke imuii*
jtep wilh Mr. PmiMn>y« wiio ihea ittf>
lUp^wwaatipDt Mr^. Morgftti 4U Iboi
C, di9( itie prhicipsl Dift ^ wbat bo
imy) «wned t» W« ypiMd be*
Pi^ Am» WAS Inii^; aoA fiifther sad
irticolarly «M» tbst sir &ehti$ Wi^lpols
Uiwrile Al«lt«r i* hii DDMenos t9 cm of |
of tie Mry%£Rr )«4t«
r fMemy f» hs jiImiii. wUch loiter Iw
)i«lgltt^ Hinted io sir ftcdk Ackwordb
& isflb soimous sMmAb jss tliMe vpon
ksfiPisdom of sfeGtioos, your oooiiniitee
miNWKJ^ im pwinf Iks f»ssl» A»d pos-
N)r DwanmiaUs expenoss ibti partis
liar fMSDS xomg hmt bMD droirs to
ims iiv Soas* airpfagfs Ae laws •!»*
^•by riyulstiing the suMor of ihsn t
lilboss wk0 ongags in iWdt Mpesaei,
ttsibrjeetio b^vv pmsl btvs» but ibcre
mw^faxAg^Miy adsplsd to tbe mbs
f s swuit^r wbo danmniady ompkys
kiMtey oftha Mbltc, sad the vbole
smr mA pwirsbfe widoyajMils tbss sft-
mi tbe collMliag and ^flnotbg of il,
gHBSt^peppls; and by this nnateioii
ii criniDal disteibotioa af ottaas, bi
MM iDSSimv jufllite ths aspamse tbas
Uticukr pasflMia m% obliged to ba at^by
nkisgit oecasaary to the pitseivBtMMi af
Ithstisirakiafaiatoa frae Batian. Far
ithn Qsse the oostastis pWAsndvisibla.
Ii«> vhctfasr the Cwmak<mm shall aetsin
ha tiard slate in tbair awn kaads, wbHst
Uivbsia dispute is earried on at the aiu
mos af the pmipleibuiantbe side of
bsnaQialSK»aaS afthemaaay graatadto
ifiNtftsiid seouie tbe constituttonai inde-
Henfay af tbe tbxee hnmcbsa a** the
ibiinetbad of oovmptiatt is as sase,
iM tbnafiire year easamiltee appreheada
acrimiDala wny of ssbverttng tbe con-
ttWfla» lahgr iB anaad fivoa. It laa
atie«iery4
aa faigb and _
4iie |i y— an af yaslisttiaas raacb ^%^aAm
kfsm, memr «ieat wdtfi pai^sscialary art*
mnjlimiiianay but mkea k isunsiioaMM*
itasnstaaskfiHritsaeooritjr m fha«sti«K
and^ffioacyaf the nisdiisf ilfradflMS;
and tfasrafore year eamadsafte ap^^ffsbaad
jt is Ae inaae osoMpry ^r your oanrf-
dtJMmm, fbr vbiia it wanSs af auoaMS) tt
Isavaa an ^partiinity to pisssste syad
maintain your independency Ar tba
fdtooa.
Yainr CoHUniitae aair.jiaaaaad to %af
the candiM* of i^a aari af Of*
baftre^
fisid^ vith labttssti
ammasaf
ofthapnUic
to the ^xiatity and
iasabia and vaosiaiW that part
icaiaacy» gianted w the aap*
MTt cfths ciyd gastouaant, isbjah bas
bass employed in ulut is cdaunonly sail-
0fX nasret sterviaes*
Vonr Cnafwnittae, basing bean i
that ibis money bad besn bnui
three difGsiani deManinatinaS) esUad fbr
an acaannSaf all the Sbtas issoe^for seeast
senrtee^ or lar bis flaajas^'s iaunadiato er
special sennios^ (tbi otoosy Issued to hia
msjcaty's priay pwaa eHoepsed) or to
reiadHHsa dxpoices dariag tbe bnt tail
yfsurs in wUdi Robert earl ofOrfoidwas
fifst conuaissioner of tbe tsaaawyy Ae«
And the anoonnt having bsan bad belbva
Ibsn ikwntba auditor af the cnebe^uei^
nSce, there appeared to be issued under
tbasa throe heads aaly, inelodliiff tbeaii*
nual sum of 5»00(M*paid to aadi af tfa^
saoraisties of statofarsaorstaersiasa»tlia
snaiafl^MMM^- ^ M.
Hie issuing sneh an bnmeiito part eftfto
moneyi giv^n fonbe.fuppert aftbaeMI
ffovemment, to these particular iiss%
during a time af ^afiwad tianyuHito till
the bSe rupture wKb Spam^ greatly alann>
ed your eomniittee» ssid pat tbem upeH
examining arbat sums had bean issued ftr
the sameseiaiocs in atemer period of the
like number ef yeaia. And yoor eomv
mittee bag teare to represeaS to you that
axoibitant as this sum may seem, tbry
aeeidd hare suppressed this pert or tbefr
report, if by tbe comparison they hs4
entered upon» they comd any ways har0
reoonoilcd timir silenoe upon this head, to
their du^ to this House, and the nation;
and your committee hope, that tbe period
they have pitohed upon^ wiH evinee tb*
truUi of this isSention, as il eomprehendi
a ffMieral and mbst expensive war abroad^
adsBMse of Aacrownithabappy esuMsdi*
Sll] 16 GEORGB IL Rather Report qf^Ae CommiUee ^ Secrecy [8]3
' ment of tbe^pretent royal fiuiuly upon the
throng and •& open and dangorom rd>el-
lion at home ; in short, every event that
can happen to justify extraordinary ex-
.peooes m canyin^ on the businen of go>
▼emoicnU. And it ia not easy to express
the surprize of your committee, when
they found by the account kid befixe
them* that from the Ist day of Auffust,
1707, to the Istday of August 1717,Uiere
was issued under the aforesaid heads, no
more than the sum of SS7,960i. 4t. Sd.
halfpenny..
Your Committee, observing that the
adickota of the tasaairy for die time being,
are the only persons tojidiom any of tfae^
sums have bean issued that are aocounta-
bie for tbe same; and there having been
Jssued to Mr. Fttxton, the present solici-
'tor,6d,800L in thekstten yean, in which
the earl of Orford ' was first conmiis-
aioner of the treasurvt and the sum of
58,516^ &» IDd. to Mr. Boiret, and Mr.
Cratcherodd saoeessively solicitors, be-
tween the Iflt of August, 1707, and the
1st of August, 1717* Tlittaaums sub-
itracted from their respective totals, the
remainder will be l^SMfiOOL 6f. Sd,
issued for secret services, during the last
ten years, and 379,444L !«• 7«?. h^-peany,
issued for the like services from the year
.1707 to, the year 1717; by which it i^
.pears, Uiat the sum expended on these
aervices duvio^ the last ten yean, amecmts
to near five tunes- aa much as what was
.exposded for the satoie services in the ten
yearaendii^'the 1st of August, 1717 r
•and yoor committee cannot see that any
exif&ncy of affiurs, any dimimitionof the
national debt, or aooession jal wealth to
iihe nation, has happened to justify such
piofiision*
. And though your Committee very well
apprehend, uat no form of government
can subsist, without a power of employ-
ing public money for services, which are
in their nature, secret, and ou^t always
to remam so ; vet when sudi exorbitant
aums are issued for those services, as by
passing through the hands of a minister
jnay become dangerous to the liberties
of the people, your committee thouffht
themselves indispensably obliged to lay
it before you in all the liffhts which the
very imperfect evidence Uiey have been
lUe to procure, can throw if on this nice
•ad dangerous branch of service.
Your Committee now proceed to lay
bofore. you the proofii that the money
wittd under the thre^ heads of aecret
, of special service, and toieiin.
bune espenees, were undentood to mean
one and the same tiling.
Ckrisiefker Tikon^ eatj. a derk k
the traasury, and who camemto that ofict
in the year 1664, said on hisdammitioD,
That he looked on all Uiese nuNiiatobe
of the same nature; that tiiey are all with-
out account except aa to what relates to
the solicitor of the treasury, noriitheTe
an3r ontiy in the treasury of the appii*
cation of any of tiiese aums of money.
John Skepkerd^ a d^uty-mesaeDger of
the treasury, who baa received very large
sums under eadi of theae three heads,
beoig examined, said. That die warrants
upon which he received- money at the
exchequer under any of these three heads,
whether in his own name, or in the name
of other persons, w^re all without accotmt,
and tiiat ne made no distinction, whether
the orders were for special, or aecret ter-
vice, or to rtimborse expences.
But your Committee obserre, that all
the money issued under the bead of seoet
service, is issued in the name of Job
Scrope, esq. secretary of the tieasaij,
but tne orders for the sums whid were
issued under tiie beada of special senioe
or to reimburse expences, aie payable to
Mr. Lowtiier, Mr. Riduiids, and Mr.
Shepherd, messengers of the ezdiequer,
and to a great variety of other aames, for
which sums no receipts appear to hare
been given ; but none of those to whose
naaea tihese ordera are payable, undff
ttther of these three heads, i^pear to
have any interest m the sumsihus issued.
And your Committee have the greatest
reason to bdieve timt many of the order;
for this money were issued unknown to
the persons to whom they were made
payable; for Mr. George Campbdj,
bwaker, in the Strand, did, cm bis esm-
nation before the coounittee declare, That
he was desired by the eari of Day, to go
to the treasury, and take up an order
wfaioh be would there find issued in htf
own name, and to carry it to the earl «
Orfiird ; that he accordingly went to the
treasury, where he received from one oftbe
derks an Older for the sum rf8,2SU4«'^
for special service;>hat he carried ths
order to tiie earl of Orford, and indorsed
it ; and then the said earl desired dieexa*
minant to leave it for him at the treasoi?;
that he accordindy did leave it at m
treasury witii Mr.Lowe, one of theclerts;
that being at the treasury about some
oOier: aflwa» vl febraaiy Jaat, be vx^
Ml the Caiubtajifth^ EfirlqfOffifrd^ A« D. 174& : [814
IpitaBy I8ir an ord«r th^ im mide oat
A hit Dtfa^ &r a mini of .monoy, which he
lelieres had been signed two .or three
lap before, but that he had po notice
liim the earl of Hay, or any qther person
kit such an order would be made out in
ibosme.
And Mr. Abraham Farley bemg eia-
pbed in relation to an order in his name
brl,200t8aid» That about the month of
^luaiy, I7S69 Mr. Lawton told him that
hete was an order made out in his namOf
tnd bid him go and receiToit; that he
lid receive it, but not for his own use,
br be paid it oyer immediately to Mr.
Uwton, and .that he did not know what
Uwtoa did with it» nor did he (Farley)
bow that any such order was made out,
i^Mr. Lawton told him of ify>^id.sent him
reeeiTeit.
And Mr. Edward Brif^ntf foEmedy
poder door-keeper to the tieasunr, now
pMneD(|er,bein|;exanunedbefore the com-
|ittee> m relation to two orders, one for
l^lL 6f. Sd* and the other for 2,700/.
riiich were issued in his nanone, said. That
pir. Tikon called him to indorse those
jrden, which he accordingly did, and then
|ir?e diem to Mr. Tilson; and that this is
^ that he knew about it, for he never did
IsoeiYe the money for those, or for any
eer orders at the exchequer, nor does
know who did.
And your Committee also observe, that
(here have been a greats number of other
wdeis, which do not appear to have been
communicated to Uie persons whose names
ivere made use of therein (if any such
persons there were) although their names
vere indorsed on the back of the respec-
|ive orders, as having received the amount
)f the sums therein specified ; for a list of
peracmsin whose names money was issued
Inriog the term of the enquiry, lying before
iie committee, many of these names were
read over to Mr. Tilson, Mr. Fane, and
lir. Shepherd, and they all declared they
bew no such persons, though Mr. Shep-
lierd in particular had received money on
many or those orders, and said he has won-
dered he never saw the persons who en-
lorsed for large sums. And though nei-
ther Mr. Tilson, Mr. Fane, nor Mr. Shep-
herd knew who these orders were indorsed
by, yet Mr. Fane said. That such orders
irhere the persons were not known, have
been sometimes taken away by the earl of
Orford, and other lords of the treasury, to
be indorsed ; and that they have often
beea sent away to be indorsed, and when
they w«r« thos sent ans^y it was genenlly
to the. ead of Orford.
In the next pbce your Committee lay
before yoii. That thoqgh they have the
greatest reason to bdieve, that the whole
sum of 1,384,6002. 6s. Sd. (excepting the
annual alioiranee to the secretaries of state
for secret service) was under the .sole di-
rection and disposition of the earl ai Or-
ford ; yet in order to proceed with the ut-
most care and caution, they think it be-
comes them to distinguish to the Hou^e
those sums which they can trace into the
hands of particular persons, from thosci
which were evidently lodged with the said
earl, or with Mr. Scrope, secretary to the
treasury, and which your conmiittee have
the strongest reason to believe, (rem col-
lateral proofs, (having not been able, to
obtain the .direct ones^ were delivered
over by Mr. Serene to tne said earl.
And they begin with Mr. Lowther, to
whom the sum of 177»6102. lis. 6^ has
been issued within the term of the enquiry^
which has been disposed of by him, from
time to tune, pursuant to minutes of the
treasury, and ne has paid ui that interval
no less a sum than 50,0772.18s. to authora
and prmters of news-papers, such as
** Free-Briton, Dailv-Couranta, Persua-
sives to Candour and Impartiality, Com-
cutter's-Joumal, Gazetteers," and other
political papers. And your cooHmttee
leave it to the judgment of the Uouset
whether this particular sum was less under
the direction of the earl of Orford than if
it had passed through his own hands.
The next sum to be ranged under this
head is a sum of 80,1192. 4f. which has
been paid to Mr. Middleton, banker in the
Strand, on the earl of ILsy's account,
being 27,7692. 4«. issued in his own name»
aod 2,S502. paid him by Shepherd. Mr,
Middleton bein^ examined, said, thataU
the sums issuedm his own name, and what
was paid him by Shepherd, was received
by him on the earl of Ihiy^s account, out
of which about 1,5002. was paid for fees:
that the eari.of Ilay has kept cash with
him for sevjeral years ; and tnat he keept
no account of these sums of money dis^
tinct from his general cash account with,
the earl of Uav, and that these sums wem
drawn out of hb hands.in the same manner
with the rest of the earl of Hay's private^
money. That perhaps 5 or 6,0002. pert
annum of the earl of Ua^^'s money mav
have passed through thk exammant'a
hands; that this examinant cannot charge^
his memory that any large sums weri|
9»1 wmaoUS^lL JfcrHir hf/^i^tke O Mti'^ items {Bl$
chaies and buying of kidMi bomb; nor hit
QMB' OJUttnlMUll ff^MftlflOQ MT BlOMBy HilO
ScotlHNl twf lorci Hvjf y nOTP ciooS'HS fohichi*
feop Aat lord Haf ha» Annm o» bm IWnm
fla^HBCl^ vB^ nOffO IIUBI 0HO MBSy WMfA
WM BMMv 4fl\Xk pSiFaoK VO ft DIOFBMHlff J
Bor dM any pmons come to bnr fbr
non^f aocoTCRu^ to tiio boil ot no'BSO*
flMiry, IhiC servants and ttttdtesuMA*
In tile next plboey jour ComnitSMee hj
bsfcreyottaa aeeoiineof »suiii-issue#m'
kit majesCy^s service^ whieh tfaDugb*ki itiielP
aot coniidembib eiiottgb to deserve lite
anention of the Kouse, yet is accompanied
iwthsuch'4
indKBpensiMe duty totabeparcicularnodce
Fbr Mr. JhMn Lmxr, Hi^h bdliff of tMe
(Ay of W^Mtminsiery haviiig inciirred'tlie
displeasure of this Hbose, by acting'at tbe
genond^eleetion in^anillewaadareitnury
manner, iti prekidHce* of meriahtti andH&
beity of this elMlMir of tKe said city, and
ki mani(bst mlatSon of tHe A«edom of elte-
MonflF; andlleiffg' in ei»tiE»d|f of the Serjeant
at amoailencffBg this- House fbr die said
^Ibnoe^ yourcomnritCae find' that l^SOML
i»ued* under' tihe head* of money to refan^
hsno OKpenoe^ ibr bi» majesty's^ seivicey
was- (during' ^^ beh^ in custody) ap*
■lied to- die uoe* of the smd' Lover; ibr
JbfaH Shepheid said) that Mr. 9crope sent
ftv'him flM puBted out of liis poeket an
•iderlbF l',5O0f. which was in his (Shep<>
kfdfli) name^ and<tlQM*Him he must cany
it to sh» Ghai4er\¥figer and endlyne.it, and
fcaireitwkhdb'CbBries; that he went ac-
«MdJbgly to sir diaries, took the ordbr of
lim agam, passed it as usuri, and'i«ceiired
aa^ make it dieff^ of before you, as
ffoavf Hmanoae^ logoAer wMk mie money
issued fo die seerelariea of atstefor secret
sarWoe, are all the money w4iich your
eoBWunee has been able to^Craoe imiodie
handle of paitiettlarpeMons, antf msMauatm
die whole to the sum pf 271,769fc 6a. 6dL
ancr tBW neaig taken^ fvomi^ Ibc aom of
h9mjnOk et.Sd.me whole isMsed^onder
the three heads Ibr seerst aerviee» there
nmamo Ifie mat of f,U%SSlL 5s. 9dL
wnieb sum* youp eommitttse' cotusai^ ^hey
have tracecP more immedhiriy into the
handsof the earl of Oifmil or Mr. Serope,
and dor now proceed to I
lief moneys and deliveied the I,50W. nett-
mmwy„ into-sir Charfes's own hoid. And
WfKkda- <5arinr]% esq. a member of this
■boaei behig* examined^ said, that sir
Omrlea Wager Cbld him, that he was in
aaqieotadon of getdnr some money fbr
Mr. £ever, diehigh'»bfSliA>f WoBttoinster.
And' when he ftj^shryVone day returned
*om the-narjNboard, sir Charles told htm,
tftat-in bis abBence'i,50K had been brought
MtB by oBet>f tbetteasury, and sir Charles
dbnred Him tb take the money/and p^y it
lb Mr. Le^rer; and that he receired the
9,50811 from sir Charles die 2d'of January
■at, and faarsince'paid itto the useof the
Mid ijerer.
Bbsidesdiese soma there are two oAer
•mwof 4ML 1». and 2,11«. 18*. to be
•dnb* to tlAr aooomit, issued to Mr.
Brnei^ wlfial^b»^d*were. to answer
whidi mdueedthem tO'beiiere t
ever sums'were paid intO'dio nuaaai'Or afr*
ncfope, wer& by mm' paid* ovwf av^tHe ean
ofOrford.
They first observe tiat this IflBt anm of
l',ri2^1/i 5lr. M. hath eidier bison msoed
undbr the headof secret senriee mifceiiame
of Mr. Scrope^ fut under die head^ of spe-
ciai service, and to reimbuiaeeaepeaees in
the names of Richards, Sneplfcnl^ and
odiers, the gmttest part of whidi hafb been
received at the exolequerbjr 9Kepliferdor
hia predecessor INdfatda
ror John Shepkefti being i!&aiuiiied
said, That he has received^at drfe ^tche»
^[uer aereritt sums* or money' o^ oiders
made out in his own name, and otMr snms
by orden made out in the name of per-
sona unknown to him ; and'thiKt he haa
genemlly received the secret' aemee
money which is in Mr. Scrope'a none :
that trie ordsrs fbr these somk were'gene^
rally given* to him by Mr. FlSae, or Hfr.
Scropcf, andsometimesby Mr. Tilmni, oraa
under cleric, but chiedy by MV. FMne ; and
that he uoually repaid the money when he
had received it, to diose fhnn-whodi he re*
ceived the oider, unless' they pardeukriy
direeted^mtopi^it to other persons; and
that alibis warrants wcfre*without accoont ;
and he made no disdnctton whether the
ovders were in his own name or Mr.
Serope's; orin unknown names ; itor whe-
ther fbr special or secret service, or to r^
imbufse expences: that he has ^offoettmea
paid moner which he has thus reeeived to
die earl of (Mord ; and tbirltas sometimes
been the secret service money which b in
Mr. I^crope's name, amounting to 5, 6, 7,
or S'flOOi. at atime ; and that he Ites paid
him likewise money that was issued in ha
(Shepherd's)' name, but that he haa not
made these payments often; and that
what he had bean em{doyed ia had been
817J
m He Cmtbtet qfikeEmtl tfOffltrd.
A. D* 174&
[SIS
formerlj done by Mr. IUclnurd% but
when Mr. Richaids died it was put on hin
(Sbqiherd.)
Mr. Tmim being examined said, That
be has had secret flervice-money brought
to him, but that he never did receive any
money at the exchequer hioMelf, Shepherd
always brought it to him ; but that he has
always dehvered all monies he has re»
ceived, whether for secret service, special
aerrice, or to reimburse expences, to Mr.
Fane, Mr. Scrope, or the earl of Orford :
that he has, to be sure> paid very con-
aiderable sums of secret service*money to
the earl of Orford, but \^ no wav of ascer-
taioiog by book what he has paid, the tran-
aitioD was so quick.
Htwy Fane^ esq. aclerk of the treasury,
•aid, That he has received verbal orders
from the earl of Orford to prepare war-
rants for the kinff to sign, ana to bring to
him, the said earl, the money. That sums
of money for secret service nave been fre-
quently put into his hands, which were
aometimes brought him by a messenger ;
and that he delivered this money either to
the earl of Orford himself, or to Mrl
Scrope, to carry it to the said earL That
when be gave it to Mr. Scrope it was for
him to cany to the earl of Orford, and he
believea all such sums came into the said
earl'a hands, excepting some trifling sums
of 40 or SQL which he has paid to others.
That he has paid many sums to the said
carl, but kept no account 9 nor could he
tecollect the particular sums he has thus
paid. That what he has received and
paid, and what he has acted in these af-
nirs was hj the said earl of Orford's di-
tectiona, either from himself or signified to
him by Mr. Scrope; and he does not
bow that any other lord of the treasury
^ ever ^ven him directions for either
receiving or paying any secret service-
money.
And he fiurther said. That the orders
he has received to prepare warrants upon
the three heads of secret service, special
service, or to reimburse expences for his
majesty's service, have been either directly
from lord Orford himself, or from other
penona who signified to him that those
orders were fitun lord Orford.
Your Committee next observe, that the
*Qm iaaued in Mr. Scrope's name for se-
cret aervice, during the time of the en-
^, amounts to 815,819<. 5s. 2d. And
»^ere has been issued ui the name of Shep-
herd, within the same time, exclusive of
what he paid to Mr. Middhtoo^ andfir
Charies Wager, the sum of 78,6Sa^ 14f«^
2d. and in the nanie of Richards, 45,546^
18«. 6d. and out of S2 orders in various
names, which the committee called for, 26
of them, anxountins; to the sum of 1 19,21 1^
Ss. ^ appear to nave been received by
l&hepherd; for he said he always signed
them on the back, as a witness, when they
were not in his own name. These sums,
thus issued in the names of Mr. Scrope,
Shepherd, Richards, and of other ^rson^
received by Shepherd, amount m the.
whole to 1,059,211/. 6s. 2d. And this
sum your committee tliink they have
traced into the hands of the earl of Ortbrd,
or Mr. Scrope, who, Mr. Fane believes^
carried all he received to the said earL
There is still wanting to make up the sum
of 1,112,831/. 5s.9dr the sum of 53,619/.
I9s. 7d. And this last sum hath been^ i^
sued by orders, six of which, amounting to
23,650/i were in names not known, and
witnessed by persons belonging to t^e-
treasury, though not by Shepherd; an^
the remainder were generally for sucK
small 9ums, that your committee did not
think it necessary to enter into a more
minute examination about them.
It farther appears to your committee,-
that besides the sum of 1,453,400/. 6s. Sd.
already mentioned, there has been paid
in the ten years preceding the 10th of Fe-
bruary last, the sum of 45,675/. without
account to the society of tlie post-office
for the time being, by virtue of a warrant
from the treasury ; and this for a service
formerly inconsiderable. Your committee
find, by papers laid before them, that the
first payment of tliis kind was in the year
1718, and amounted to 446/. 2s. Od. and*
the succeeding payments for some years
were about 7^)/. per annum, from whence
it has gradually mcreased to 4,700/. the
present annual allowance ; and the present
secretary, John David Barbutt, esq. being
examined as to this allowance, said, That
the greatest part of this money is for de-
fnsymg the exjpence of a private office for
the inspecting foreign correspondence;
that he cannot say as to the first establish-
ment of this office, having been but three
vears and an hsdf in the post-office ; but
he apprehends there was always an office
of this kind, and that it was defrayed for*
merly by the secretaries of the state. The
establishment in this office seemed so
extraordinary to your committee, that
they have aided the particulars, as con-
tained in the examination of Mr. Barbutt^
hereunto annexed. Your connittee <
drder ii taken thfttpBfment than bfr mide :
An order is tent to the tieawgjr, and
signed by the lords, and then one of tiie
secretaries of die treasary signs a letter to
auditor, directing tne money to be
fl9| leOEOROBU. Fmtktr Jfaper* tfihe CmmUim ^ Smtcg [BflO
not bnt dbserre, that this meHiod of giving
warrants for money, without account, on
Ihfe oBces, where an^ pi^ of the chril list
revenue is received, is lugMy irregular, as
it tends to disguise the sums issued for
secret service, and may conceal the amount
of the revenue itself; for if the sums paid
by such warrants are deducted from the
receipt of the revenue before it is ac-
oounted for, and the balance only paid izUo
die exchequer, the revenue must appear
to be less by so much as the deductions
amount to.
Your Committee now proceed to lay
before you the last tmnsactions rf the earl
of Orford, as first commissioner of the
treasury; by which it will appear that be-
sides the vast sums thev have already men-
tioned, he not only exmiusted the remains
of die public treasure^ which his former
proAisionhad left in the exchequer, but
even presumed to anticipate the revenues
tf his majesly^s civil-list for a considerable
snm, and by altermg the regular course of
stedequer-pi^ents, did avail himself of
thai anticipation, and got a lar^ sum of
money into his own hands, disguised under
three different orders. For on the 9th of
February last, which was but two days
before he quitted his employments, orders
were signed by him for the pajrment of
S8,64R Is. 6(L for secret service, and to
leimburM expences, besides two other
orders payable <mt of the civil-list reve-
nues, wtiich he signed on the same day,
for 5,M7^ 16f. Sif.f, there bebg then
other orders in the said revenue, standing
out and uncomplied with.: for the sum of
lf862L 9s* ScL amounting in the whole to
die sum of 90,257/. \2s. lld^^ notwith-
atandiiw, that on that day there was but
14,284/f 17«. 0(Li in the exchequer, ap«
plicable to the uses of his majesty's civil
government, as appeared to your com-
mittee, by a state laid before them of the
cash of the civil-list revenues, on diat day }
and in order to shew the irregularity which
the said earl was guilty of in the course of
this afiUr, it is necessary to lay before the
House an account of the regular course of
payment at the exchequer.
John Shepherd being examined, said,
that the course of receiving money in the
exchequer, is thus : The king issues his
sign manual for a certain sum, which is
countersigned by the lords of the treasury,
and thereon the lords of the treasury di<
r^ a warrant, signed by them to the au-
ditor of the exchequer, who on the receipt
of -it makes out an t>rder, signifying that
the , „
issued when the bdrore-mentkmed ago,
manual, warrant, and order, are produced ;
that these instntments, together with the
letter, are carried to die auditor, who di«
rects die payment of the order to one of
the tdlers, and then sends it to the cleric
of the peDs, in order to its beiM recoried,
but keeps the dgn manual and die waitaut
tiH the next morning, wlien upon applying
to him he delivers them up to the person
who is to receive the monev, who carries
them to the derk of the peUs, where tfaey
are compared with die order, and dien
die derk of tiie pdls writes than iqpon the
order, under the auditor's directioii. Re-
cordsd such a dinr: then the order being
carried to the tellers, the money is paid.
By this it appears that accordittg to the
regular course of the exdieqoer, there
must be many steps through tne difleieut
offices between the issuing of the warrant
and the receipt of the money from the
tellers, whidi were not observed in die
case of the sum, which theearl of Orfiird
did, on the 9th of February, get Into his
own Kands ; for it appears, t£it tins sum
was received in consequence of two war-
rants, issued in the name of Mr. Scrope,
for secret services, one for 8,44^ and die
other for 5,969^. and one other warrant,
issued in the name of Shepherd for ^lecial
service, for SfiSOL and was paid to die
earl of Orford on the very day the war-
rants were signed by him the said eari
This was effiscted by depositing the orders
with the bank-officer at the exchequer, be-
fore they were properly directed by the an-
ditor,for Mr. ^Iattnew Collet, the princqisl
bank-clerk, who attends at the exchequer,
being examined, said, that he mid die
money for those orders to Mr. nne, on
Tuesday die 9th of February last, diat the
orders were not directed by the auditor,
till the nth of February following, and he
did not receive the sums for those orders
at the exchequer, till the 17th ; and Mr.
Fane being examined, said, that he re-
ceived on the 9th of February last the
three sums of SM^ of 5,969L and SfiSOL
as secret service money. That it was
from the bank-officer that he received this
money, and left the orders with him, and
that the same day between the hours of
il and 1, he paid them altogether in one
payments tte earl of Oifordia hisdoset
ail] 9mti9 0miiittfra»XaHtfO^M.
A, D. 174C
can
•t Ut bouM ja DMnmg-flreel; tfuilhe
took iiit.difftclioQt finom tke Mud aurl^ to
pmam Ihe wamnte for tiMte Uuree tiiiiifl«
Wmn al the fame time erdeeed to brmg
tkQ momf to bim; and he beiog again
fiffther eiuMied* taid, that on Ae Thurai-
day pfeoeding the earl of Orfoid's reeign-
ition of hia employmenti, being the 4th
•f FdNmaiy, Mr. Scrape ordered Mr.
Faae, to drtfir a warrant tor a pennon of
4^000L per annum to the, lord Orford,
dmiag tee ioint lives of the king, and of
the earl, whicb he accordingly did, and
gave it to Mr. Scrape, whoietamed it him
the next day, and said, the earl of Orfoid
bad pevueed it, and mreved of it with
•oiaainaiateffial dteratmna; and when it
nae ^erole aver fair, Mr* Scrape took it
M^m^ and aa Mn Fane bdievea, left it
irilk the eari of Orfoid.
It appears to your Committee, that erne
of tke Olden signed by the aaid eari,on
the9lh of Fd^ruary, was for 2fiOOL pay-
sUe to aMQor Forth, under the head of re-
aabuning expences for his majesty's, ser-
And Maiee Forth bmng ezmained, said,
Ibat he aavanoad a sum of money to the
dnke of Boilon, for which he was to re-
ceire 7,0Q0L at IfiOOL each half year;
and that the duke diew a bill, directed to
or Robert Walpole, which run thus; * I
* deareyott will pay to major Forth IfiOOl.
*or his order, every half year, for three
'yean and a half, to commeace from
* Lsdy^y last, value received* 16 May,
* 1788.' That sir Robert Walpole ver-
hsUy accepted this bill, but would not in-
dociait: that he has received SfiOOL at
five different pigments, from sir Robert
Walpole's own hands in Bank notes ; and
that lord Orfoid toki bun, about the 9th
of February last, thata warrant was signed
for the 2,0001. unpaid, wUdi ww the first
order that had paraed thrcMigh the treasury .
Your Committee being further desirous
to inform themselves in what manner the
vast sums issued for secret service were
^icoanted for to his majesty, sent for Mr.
TilftOB, irho bein^ eacamined, said, that
when his majesty signed a sign manual for
wpaying of any sum of money to Mr.
^<3^pe, for secret service, he also signed
at tile same time a receipt to Mr. Scrope
IOC the same sum, but that there was aU
^ a blank left for the date, and the
^*^ are at the same time put in at the
^^'Mry to the warrant, the wder, the
ago manual, and the king's receipt ; and
^vusaaKy^dofie bytbieateiingderk,
who wrole <he a^ manual, thai it may all
appear in the same band: That the date
of the leceipt is always made the same aa
the date of the order. And he produced
to your committee a paper, the copy
whmof is here inserted, and is as followss
* George JR. We acknowledge to have
received of our trusty and well-beloved
John Scrope, esq. the sum of 5,969^
being the same sum which in pursuance
of an order, bearing date this day, was
issued to him, at the receipt of our ex«
chequer for our secret service* Given
at our court of St. James's, the 9th of
February, 1741, in the 15th year of ouf
reign. Gsoroe RJ
* Examined, Orvord.*
And your Commitlae being mformai^
that the pqier delivesed bvMr. Tilsoa waa
the hand*writing of Mr. Thomas Wilkm^
sent for him; and he beiqg examined^
said, that the said p^p»er waa his handf»
writing, and was bjr him copied from a
paper delivered to him bjr Mr. Tilson, and
he believed was an ori|;mal : that he has
never aeea the king wnte, but he has seea
many sign manuals, and he thinks there
WW the same hand to that nmr: that he
has never seen the earl or Orlbrd wiite^
but what was to the paper he copied, waa
like what he had seen tor the earl of Ov»
ford's hand : that he believes the oopj^ he
made was not examined, but he copied at
exactly, word for word, and took the same
and dates exactly, and he believes it was a
true copy.
Your Committee cannot but observob
that this receipt is for one of those verv
sums whidi Mr. Fane received, by antiot
nation, of the bank officer, the 9th of Fe-*
Druary, and which was not realhr issued at
the receipt of the exchequer tiU the ITtii
of Fdmiary, and never went into the
hands of Mr. Scrope, but was inunediately
carried to lord Ormrd.
Your Committee were at a loss to knoir,
what waa meant by those words, * Exa-
* mined, Orford,' it bein^ impossihle to
mean the witnessing to his majesty's r«^
ceipt of it from Mr. Scrope on that day;
for Mr. Scnme never had the money,
therefore could not pay it mto *his ma-
ies^*s hands, as that would imply. Nor
have your committee been able to inform
themselves, whether or no this is conform-
able to any ancient and r^ular way of
discharging persons for the recmpt of sudi
sums, or a modem invention.
And in order to dear up this, and other
6fS] 16 '6BOROS IL Further Uep^ri of the timmlttm tfSeeney \pH
iiittlt6n of nnr fgttMct mroor tsnoCy ywct
committee applied to the Hduae for leave
to exttnine John SeroDey esq. ; hi eonse-
quence whereof he did atteiMi on the 4ih
of June instant, when he did aeqittunt the
^ommitteei that he had read the oath «id
found it to be a strong one, and desired
the opinion of the committee how he was
to henave : that if they intended to exa-
mine him about the secret service money*
he doubted he could not answer without
having his majesty's leave : and he said he
was tender of doms any thing that might
leave a stain upon nis character ; though
he believes he can give no information to
the committee more than what they have
already got And then he withdrew. And
then Mr. Scrope was again called in^ and
die chairman infortoed him, that the com-
mittee had considered of what he had
aaid, and he was directed to acquaint him,
Ihal dtey did not think themselves to be
In a situation to direct or advise in the af-
fair ; but the committee deswed to know,
whether he would submit to take the oath
0v hot ? To which Mr. Scrape answered, I
hope you will give me time to consider ei
it, as being a matter of great consequence %
and then he withdrew : Upon which the
/committee appointed him to attend on the
14th instant Jime ; on which day he did
accordingly attend, and your committee
being informed, that he desired to speak
with the chairman and the committee, he
was called in and asked, what he had to
aay?
Whereupon Mr. Scrope said, He was
jsztremely sorry that he should give the
committee so much trouble, for he did as-
aure them, that his refusal was not preme-
ditated, for he came the other day resolved
to take the padi, though he had then
doubts if he should answer in what related
to secret service money, and he thought
he might have made his objections, when
^e was examined to it ; and according^
Jbegan to take the oath; but when he came
to the general words, he found them to be
ao strong and general, that he doubted if
he should not be guilty of perjury, if he
idiould take the oadi and not answer.
That he had improved the time the
committee had been so kind to ffive him,
and had consulted with the ablest law-
irers and divines, and they have made
his scruples stronger ; and that he did not
do it to obstruct the enquiry, but could
not as an honest man, and with a sale con-
science, uke ihe oath ; that he had kid
bis pise before the king; and was autho-
if be tonka
rnedtosAy, «< Thatth^di^MBdof nea^
issued for secret aensoe^ by die natma sT
it, requires the atBMSt seorasy, ani is«>
counted for to his mrtesty only, and thaw»
fOk« his mjesty cooid not penut bin to
disdose any thing on that i
That he had well ceoai^
self, and consahed other
thinks he should be
general oath, when tbeve y
questions whieh ho did not intoid to \
swer ; that he hop^ be should soa mm
the displeasiiva of the coiauitte«, for if
the oath was coo&iad, be was raftd j to ba
examined.
Which behaviour of Mr. Scrope cmt-
ly surprised your committee, luiisHMing
the infonaation they bad toteisadt foom
the many papers lelattng to Ae aecvst
service, which had been laid bafine tbem,
and from the examination of the aaeaaen*
gers, and the most koowhig mad SKtiva
clerks in the ofice where be is aeoNtary.
Mr. Scrope having tbosrefossd' to an*
swer to this material part of thia eoiffatf^
your committee beg leave to oboenm,
that those sums which ate specified to he
for secret service, and which have Umti
been issued in Mr. Scrope's name, are the
only money for which nis majesty gives a
receipt, and may therefore be dftbat the
crown conceives to be issued widiout ao-
count; for the specious titles of
service, and to reunburse expeaoes» i
from the very phrase, to iaaply aoase ac-
count; and what is issued to the aolidtar
of the treasury, under the head of rein*
buraing expences, is actually aecoonted
for, so that his majesty may possiHy be
led to believe, that all the money issued
under these heads is accounted for, as he
gives noreceipt fertile same; and thus it
may happen, that by the artifice of a mi*
nister, such sums or money may l»o issued
under the heads of qiedal servioe and to
reimburse expences, as may eadai^^er the
public liberty, while the crown nay be
Ignorant of tiie same, and by attending
only to what is specified to be for aeciet
service, may believe that servioo is icept
within reasonable' bounds.
These are the most remarkable partieo-
lars that your committee tbiok proper to
lay before you, relating to^tbe head of
secret service, which, if it be oonaidered
either by comparison, or by its conse-
quence, either by the son, tv tibe namnsr
of its issue and receipt, are equaily eKor>
bitant, dangerous, ana destmctiveb
Ifitbeooasidaro^fagr^'
m
'Ml tie(3imdud^ih$ Sm4 ^fOtjMU
h. D. 1M&
[AM
\u^ lo879,44«<.l«»7i/. halfbeonj; if
ly^ dMOCodiog into fMriioiilan^tlieD It will
MMT^ithe two renarkflUe yoKi 1759
nd ]7S4v amount to S12,128^ 19i. 7i&
»eing conf idarably more than tbe total
ifihe whole ten yean, from 1707 to 1717.
And what is most aatonishing, the de-
nands for secret seryices^ in the six weeks
nmediatelf preceding the resignation of
he earl or Orford, amount to more than
lie whole expence, upon that head, in
lie three years ending August, 1710^ and
te draughts upon the exchequer for that
»e, in one day only, bein^ the ninth day
£ February last (tne last indeed he sat at
lie treasury) amount to a greater sum
han was issued for that service, in any
Mie of the afore-mentioned three years,
to gloriously distinguished by repeated
fklmrtea.
And if the consequences of this profu-
ion be considered, what can they be but
lie alteration of a government, which so
litaiy was support^ in that branch for
ine fifth part of the expence upon the
nedium of the ten years. Your commit-
tee have informed you how the powier, the
iifluence, the offices of the government have
leen employed by him towards violating
he freedom of your elections ; and they ap-
arehend they have just grounds to suspect
liat part of these immense sums have been
appended for the same most pernicious pur-
MMes ; and the rather when they consider
rem what Question the obstinate silence of
PiBxton toolc its rise, as also what sums
bave been siven towards the defravine the
nmenoes c? the new charter^ at Kadnor,
ml to carry on the prosecutions ^t Cd-
JMBter, as also the strongjv probability of
hasaoie pcactioe being earaed on with
lespeci to the borough of Orford; besides
he remarkable sum to Lever, as a yeward
:o a most unjust retummg officer, cen-
lored by, and actually under the punish-
nent of parliament, as a Tiolator of the
ibertiea <n his country.
Nor are the ^^prehensions of your com-
Dtttea at all lessened when Ihey consider
he manner of issuing and reeeiving these
peat sums; for here they find the r^ular
Bonne and order of the exchequer, was,
m the 9th of February last, overturned by
pawning the orders to a bimk-man for im-
mediate payment, by wliich means the
earl of Orford got 17,461/. into his own
hands, one of the last days he remained in
die treasury, which was disguised in three
aiad was much move than there
aetuaUywas ia the oflBcheqaer applicstlt
to the uaes of tbe cavil government.
They dbo- find the ioms issued under
the two heads of speeial servioee, and
to reimburse expences for his majesty^a
service, though tney seem to imply opea
and detenainate uses, yet they are issued
without receipt firen Ida majesty as well aa
withoat account, except what relates to
the solicitors of the treasury; so that it
is possible the sums under these two
heads, amoundng to 508,781/. 1«. Xd^vekj
be issued and employed for uses, whidi
the crown itself may look upon as no ways
makis^ part of the article ot secret service;
and if a profuse and designing minister
should by these means get a power, off
squandering such vast sums of secret ser*
vice money upon his own arbitrary do*
signs, while the crown may be misled to
imagine that this branch of the goverqi-
ment is carried on at a moderate and jus*
tifiable expence, your committee apprsh
bend ihat the king may be impoverisbedp
the civil list exhausted, the just debits un-
paid, and the people in consequence loaded
with new burthens to repkice that profii*
don which may be so dangerous to their
liberties.
Your Committee haye now laid before
you the conduct of the earl of Orford,
with relation to the payment of the troops,
the freedom of your elections, and tne
quantity as well as manner and conse-
quence of issuing and recehring the public
money, supposed to be employed for secret
services of the state, notwithstanding the
obstructions they have met with either fi>r
want of power to compel or indemnify the
unwilling witness or accomplice, and from
their uu£ility to protect and support those
who might have been more ready to do
their duty to the piiblie.
Your Committee are now proceeding ia
the examination of the copies of the papers
and letters, and extracts of letters relating
to the Conyention, referred to them bv
the House, which they will report with au
possible diqpatch.*
* Mr. Coxe, in his Memoira of air Robert
VFalpole, doses his review of tbe above Report
with the followiDg obcervatioo» on tbe ru-
mours industriously circalated, tbat sir Robert
gained eoormoos riches from the pluader of the
public:
'* The current opinion of his vast wealth
was, ia some degree, sanctioDed by bis profuse
style of livingi and the Isige sums which he
expended at HoogbtOQ» ia buildings and pur^
ehas^ which could not amouat to less than
aiTJ 16OI0BGBIL IUMhii^4 BprntkUOiCkm^Ukgrnum. [I»
A Modem wM OMrie^ andl tke qoMliim
put. That the aboare Bmatt be printed;
end the previous queation oeingpiit there-
<tai, it petted in the negetiTe*
The tOnf^M Speech ai the Ooie qfihe
MOtOOOi., tad to whicA it was Hud the inoaaie
ef bit ettile, aad tbe iuM>wn talary of bit
linble empioytMOlti weie maaifesUy iatde-
'* Tbit beinous charge wiU be best answered
Iff a plain statement of bis nrivate property,
pecuniary aoauirenients, and tne situation of bit
wS^n at bis doatb.
«' Id tbe first chapter of these Mtintirs, I
have shewn from vndoobted doaunents, lliat
his family estate, to which be soooeedad in
1700, amoonted to a,169i. a year, and that it
had beea relieved from embanrassmepta by bit
wife*! fortune. His gencrons temper, and li-
berality in promotioff tbe Hanover successioo,
appear to have Involved him in his early days
in some difficulties, from which he was am:-
wards relieved by the emoluments of the.offioet
wbich be held under tbe Whig administration
in tbe reign of queen Anne, aad while pay-
msttpr gweral of the feratt in the reign ef
George the fint But be jpreatly augflMoled
hisfbrtone by disposing of South Sea-Stock.
He was, however, principally indebted for tbit
acquisition to bis own sagacity, and to tbe
judgment and^ intelligence of his agents, Ja-
eombe and Gibson ; for he was so far from
being entrusted with the secrets of the ma-
nagers, that be was execrated by them for
having uniformly opposed the project, and fo«
vonred tbe proposal of tbe Baak. His good
fortune, however, was still greater than bis own
disoernment or tbe intelli^Bnce of bis agents,
for be narrowly escaped being a gieat sufferer
in the last subscriptiou, by the precipitate fall
of tbe stock. Some orders wbicli he had sent
fh>m Houffhton, by sir Harry Bedingileld, to-
gether with a list of his friends who wished to
be subscribers, came too late to be executed ;
and the delay prevented hia participating in the
general calamity.
** This addition to considerably inereated bit
levenue as sufficiently to acoount for bis ex-
pence iu building, improTing, and purchasing
at Houghton, i%hich be commenced in tbe fol-
lowing year, as well as for the acquisition of
that noble collection of pictures wbich cost
bfaff 40,000(., and which sold fbr nearly double
the original price.
«> During bis continuance in office, he pro-
vided for his family by lucrative offices for
life. Thus he was enabled to expend Ids
private fortune, considerably increased by the
rise of landed property, and bis ministerial
emoluments, in that profuse style of liring
which incurred such unqualified censure.
** These details of the estate and property of
sir. Robert Walpole, cannot be deemed super-
ioout, when it it oontUeced that be bat been
Seuion.'] JUyl&* The kii« €tne to
the Houte of FaCTt* end gK99 the leyai
etient te tevMil BiUt: eaer wbiA hie
asejeitj aMde the foUoviiv SpoMh tebotb
Houtet;
^ My Lordi mni Gendemen;
* The setrion of pariismesit faaa
been drown out into to unutual a leogth,
and the season of the year it so fiu- ad«
▼anced, that I am persuaded, you are all
very desirous of a recess,
** I acquainted you, at tbe b^gnmii^ of
the tetsion, with my endeavoura to bring
about an aecommodatiQn between those
princet^vHiote union was most necessary
m this critical conjuncture. The Tteaty,
lately concluded between the ^oeen of
Hungary and the king of Prua8ia» under
mv me£ation, and so nighly to the hooour
or Great Britain, mutt imdoubtedly pro-
duce the bett oontequences to the cooi*
mon cause.
** Tbe successes^ which bsTe attended
the Austrian armt in Germany, the con*
junction of the king of Sardmia'a forcet
with those of the queen ef Hun^suy m
Italy, the present &vourable dispositicm of
the States General aad of other great
powers, are, under God, chiefly owing to
the generout astbtance eShraed by this
nation to itit ancient and natural allies.
^ ** Thete happy eyeatt cannot fiil to
give encouragement to our firiendt, and to
establish the reputation of our strength,
and our just influence abroad.
** If, K>r the fSeuther support and defence
represented as a needy adfenturer; tbM be
was accused of bsTing squandered aadappm-
priated*the public money; an accusation which
wat advanced without proof, believed wiliioiit
eonviction, aad is still credited by maay who
take rumoon fbr faets, and give anlinaiaea frith
a On tbe 13th of July brd Gower waa ap-
pointed keeper of is majesty's [nivy aeal, in tbe
room of lord Hervey, who resigned ; ako ap>
pointed lord lieutenant of the coon^ ofScsffbrd,
and sworn of the privy council. Mr. Poteeney
was created baron of Heydoo, visooont Wriog**
ton, and earl of Bath. Lord Batbvat was ap-
IMdnted captain of his m^iesh^'s bead ef pen-
sioners, in the room of the duke of Bolton, and
sworn of the privy council. The duke of B«ltoo
was appointed governor of tbe Isle uf Wight
and of Carisbrook castle, and tbe fortificatiofis
thereunto belonging in the said isle ; also OMde
warden of the New Forest in Hampshire. Lord
Ddawar was appointed master forester ef
Frithan in tbetaid forest. On tbe IStb theeail
of Bath ttok his scat in Iha i
K9] 7%e Kin^i Speech on Opening^he Seision. A. D. 1742.
[8S0
If die qneen of HiiDgarjr, tnd to restore
nd secure the balance of power, ad par-
icolarij recommended to me by mjr par-
lunenty it should become hecessary fbr me
0 contract new engagements, or to enter
Dto farther measoreB, I rel^ upon yomr
1^ sod persererance, iiv so yuit a cause,
i^ eDflJ>le me to make them good.
<< In the midst of diese extensive trans-
tetions, I have been, and shall continue to
le^attentiye to the prosecution of the war
iniDSt Spain with tiie utmost vigour;
Rdch b of the greatest importance to the
ptk and navigation of my subjects ; the
taDOurBgement and protection whereof,
Isl be one of my prmcipal cares.
« Gentlemen of the House of Commons ;
«<The aealy onaikiraity» and dls<-
Hfteh, with which you have given such
Hge supplies, for die service of the cur-
Mtyeor, demand my particular thanks,
pdaiefiresh prooft of your duty tome,
id of your concern for the true interest
f your country. The success, with which
Ibeie supplies nave been raised, must oon-
|iDce ail the world of the established credit
iduf nation*
« My Lords and Gentiemen ;
** I have the justest condfidence in
lie auctions of my people ;' which I'shall
Kit fail to cultivate, by a constant care of
Idr rights and liberties, and by promot-
hff their prosperity and happiness. Let
tne your endeavour, in your respective
wiDtries, to make tiiese my good inten-
iODB ri^tly understood ; to calm and heal
D anifflontiefl and divisions ; to support
By authori^ and government; ana to
nserve die peace and good order of the
torn.**
en the lord chancellor, by his ma-
ttty*s command, prorogued the parlia-
aent to the 16th of September. They
H^ further afterwards prorogued to the
ifth of November.
SECOND SESSION
OV THE
NINTH PARLIAMENT
or
GREAT BRITAIN.
tke Kif^i Speech on Opening the See*
h&J] November 16. The iTmg came
* ^ ly British parliamont, after several
FNv<^|[ttSio|is, tbn year met on the t6tb of ]No?
"-"-^ Tke reaoer here most be inf9rmed<rf'
to , the House of Loi^, and opened the
Scission with the following Speedi to boil
Houses:
** MyLords and Gendemen ;
<* The present important conjunc-
ture of affiiirs will, 1 am persuaded, be
the state of parties in Eogland, and of the
rsignioff politics of this period. Tbia inforiiM^
tion is the more oeoessary, as he cannot receive
it from die papers and publiciatons of that time,
when party rage broke out with more violence
than bad been ever known since the time of
the Revolution.
*' It is certain from ezpmenoe, that it does
not require so great abilities to oppose, as it
do^ to head, or even to befriend, an administra-
tion, in England. The great qaalities that
were seen in the gentiemen of the new ministry
while in the opposition, were all obscured from
the eyes of the poblic when they became mi*
nisters themselves. The troth is, they had but
few personal friends; for though tbey were
supported by the remains of the late adminis-
tration, who were still very powerful, yet that
was not from any kindness, but from the fiNnr
or hatred of a third party : and what added to
the popular odium of the new administration,
was tne disagreeable appearance they were
under of having changed both their party and
then* principles, without being possessed of any
real power. This, with regard to money, was
still in the hands of the old administration, and
with regard to measures, it was engrossed by
lord Carteret, a minister of superior capacity
and influence, and independent of all party as
to his power in the cabinet.
** But even all the capacity of that great nu-
nister was thought insufficient for justifying to
the^ nation the bold measures that had been
lately pursued: 16,000 British troops were
now in Flanders idle, unemployed, and quar-
reliinff with the inhabitants; without the
Dntcn peremptorily declaring for the queen
of.Hungaiy, by which some appearance arose,
that the government of England was to take
upon itself the whole support of the House
of Austria. This appearance was stren^-
ened when the Hessians in British pay
were sent to join the English in Flanders,
and when it came to be publicly known, that
the 16,000 Hanoverians sent upon the same
destination, were likewise to be in the pay of
Great Britain, and that too upon terras given
out to be more advantageous than common.
'* All those topics, thelatter especially, were
blazoned out to the public in a set <yf the most
flagitions and indecent writings that ever ap-
peared in England i The press did not now, aS
formerly, point at the minister alone, but at his
master, because of his doable capacity of king
and elector, and the people were, on that ac-
count, heated to distraction. It waa easily
foreseen, that if the opposition wiihni doors
should oontinue to be as s^ong as it was in the
preceding session, the consequences' to the
16 GEORGE II. TAr Kmi^M Sj9e§eh pnOptmng the Setshn. [S3i
891]
Ihoiigfat a tufidmii reaaonibrcilliiigyau
thus eoAy toj^ether.
« I have, m punuanee of the repnted
advice of my parliamentt takeo such a
put as appewred to me most conducive to
the support of the House of Austria, and
to the restoring and securing the balance
of power. In this view, I <»dered a con-
siderable body of troops to be sent from
hence into Flanders; and, at the close of
the last session, I foresaw, and pointed out
internsl peace of the kingilom might be fiOal ;
and this consideration was the
because a seem spirit of dtseooteot bans m
U inainaate itsdf into some of the offioeis
the arm V, both at home and abroad, upon ac-
koft* '^
r the Hanorerian troopa.
> The minister (for ao lord Carteret was
now termed) bore up agaiast all the torrent of
abuse against hb measurea with vast spirit,
mod it seemed ouly to cooftrm and quicken his
resolutions. Be appealni to the proceediDgs
of parliament, aod to the late voice or the people,
an which were unanimous in calling upon his
m^esty to support tfie Bouse of Austria. He
mentioned the promising aituatiou of affairs on
the continent, as the happy effects of his ma-
jesty's measures and firmness, and he continued,
notwithstanding all that had passed, to assure
the public, that the Dutch would infallibly take
part in the war, if they aaw hia majesty per-
aevere in hia conduct.
*' Many of the most candid and consistent
friends of the late oppoaition agreed with the
minister in his sentiments, and some of them
were taken into places of hiffh trust Lord
Oower, the most popular nabiemau in the op-
podtion, was made lord privy-seal, which ne
ailerwarda resigned and resumed, andeiyoyed
is the fkdl the confidence and fitvour of his
maater ; and lord Bathurst, who had been al-
wava heard with great attention in the Houaa
of Peers, waa made captain of his nugesty's
band of pensioners ; and several gentlemen in
the House of Commons were at the same time
provided in placea nnder the government.
"Though these promotions aod alteradons
in some measure seamed to aecure a minority
lor the government within, they were hr from
allaying the heats without doors. The chief
of the preferments had fidlen upon those who
were oonsidered either as Tories, or as bdng
very moderate men, with regard to any party,
ana the gentlemen in the opposition were not
eren without hopes, that when the great points
came into debate, they would, aome of them,
as indeed happened to be the case, vote agamat
the court. A loyal Addreas was moved for,
opposed and earned in both Houses, and each
met with a most gracious answer from his
mitfcstv. But the two parties kept up their
atrength till the question about the Hanorer
Troops, now known to be in British pay, shonki
-tie be debated.** TSadal. '
to you, that it might be incmnbeni iqMNi
me, to enter into nirther meaaurea for the
aame great and desirable ends. The aug*
mentation of our strength in the Lcnr
Countries became a necessary at^; for
which purpose 1 sent, in concert with my
allies, 16,000 of my electoral troops
thither, with the Hessians in the British
pay» in order to form such a force, in con-
junction with the Austrian troops, as
might be of service to the common cause
in all events; and I doubt not but I ahaU
have your assistance in the aupport of
these necessary measures.
*< The magnanimity and firmness of die
queen of Hungary, notwithstanding so
many numerous armies sent against her;
the res<rfute conduct of the king of Saidl>
nla, and his strict adherence to his en-
cageroents, though attacked in his own
dominions ; the stop which has been hi-
therto put to the ambitious designs of the
court of Spain m Ital^, (to ^icb, the
operations of my fleet, in the Meditena*
nean, have so visibly contributed ; j the
change of a&irs in the North, which hss
appeared by the public reouisition, made
by Sweden, of my good offices, for pro*
curing a peace between Russia and that
crown ; and the defensive alliance agreed
upon, not only between me and the
Czarina, but also between me and the
king of Prussia, are events, which could
not have been expected, if Great Britain
had not shewn a seasonable spirit and vi-
gour, in defence and assistance of Its an-
cient allies, and in the maintenance c»f the
liberties of Europe, as well as of its own
true, and lasting mterest.
** Gentlemen of the House of CcHmnons :
** I have ordered the pro^r Esti-
mates for the service of the ensuing year
to be prepared, and laid bdfore you, and
also an Account of the expence of those
particular services, which 1 have already
mentioned, and which you wOl find to
have been concerted in as frugal a mmi-
ner, as the nature of ''them would admiL
I am persuaded, that you will readily grant
me auch Suoplies, as shall be found ne-
cessary for tlie security and welfare of the
nation, requisite for the support of the
common cause, and adequate to the pre-
sent emergenqr.
*< MyLords and Gentlemen ;
*^The importance of your deln
berations at this time is so evident, that I
will say nothing to enforce it. The ho- j
nour and interest of my crown and king-
doms; the success of the war. wherein I
1
833] Debaie in theLofeU m the Address qf Thanks, r A. D. mS.
[Sftt
mua en^iged i^^8t Sjpein ; and thef wn
^sstabli&ment of the balance uid tran-
3aiilit7 of Europe, wUl greatly depend on
\»e pradetice and vigour of your resolu-
tions. Let it be your care to< avoid every
Chlng that taiayi either delay • or weaken
^em; and to convince t4ie world, that
3roa are defermined to make a right use of
the present Of^ortunity.*'
Debate in the Lords on the Address of
^Jianks*,2 '^^^ ^^^S l>eing withdrawn,
The Marquis of Txveedale rose and said :
My lords; it is not without the
lughest satisfaction, Uiat every lover of
iniankind must look upon the alterations
that have lately been produced in the
state of Europe ; nor can any Briton for-
bear to express ^ immediate and particu-
lar pleasure to observe his country rising
again into its former dignity, to see his own
nation shake off dependence, and rouse
From inactivity, cover the ocean with her
^eet8> and awe the continent with her
armies, bid once more defiance to the ra-
.pacious invaders of neighbouring kin^-
^ioms, and the daring projectors of uni-
versal dominion, once more exert her in-
.floence in foreign courts, and raise another
confederacy against the power of France.
• The queen of Hungaiy, who was lately
obliged to retire at Uie approach of her
'enemies, to leave Vienna in danger of a
aiege, and seek shelter in the remotest
comer of her dominions, who was lately
.ad.harr&sed with invasions, and encircled
vrith dangers, that she could scarcely fly
from one ravager, without the hazard of
JiilliDg into the hands of another, is now
able to give laws to her persecutors, to re-
.turn the violence which she has suffered,
and instead of imploring mercy from those
who had no regard <but to their, own ip-
teresty and were determined to annihilate
her fiunily and divide her dominions, now
>sits in full security on her throne, directs
the march of distant armies, and dictates
the terms on which those who have entered
her dominions shall be suffisred to escape.
Such, my lords, is the present state of
the German empire ; nor nave the affiurs
of the rest of Europe been less changed ;
the power of the House of Bourbon has
been diminished on every side, its alliance
has been rejected, and its influence dis-
r^arded*
* From the GeQtl^man's Magasioe : com-
piled by Dr. Johnson.
[VOL. XIL]
The' king of Savdjni^ has openly engaged'
to hinda* the Spaniards from erecting a
new kingdom in Italy ;,. and though he naa
hitherto been somewhat embarrassed in his
measures,, and oppressed by the superio*
rity of .hi« enemies,has at least, by prevent-
ing the Qpniunction of the Spanish armies,
pr^erved the Austrians from being over-
whelmed. Nor 6an the situation of his
dominions^ and the number of his forces^
suffer us to doubt, that in a short time
he will be able entirely to secure Italy,
since he has already recovered his country,
and drove back the Spaniards into the
bosom of France.
The condition of the other Spanish
army is such, as no enemy can wish, to
be aggravated by new calamities. They
are shut up in a country without provisions^
or of which the inhabitants are unwilline
to supply them : on one side are neutr^
states, to which the law of nations bars
their entrance ; on another the Mediter*
ranean sea, which can afford them only
the melancholy prospect of hostile anna-*,
ments, or sometimes of their own ships
falling into the hands of the British ; be*
hind them are the troops of Austria ready
to embarrass their march, intercept their
qonvoys, and receive those whom famine
and despair incite to change their mas-
ters, and to seek among foreign na-
tions that ease and safety of which the
tyranny of their own government, and the
madness of their own leaders, has deprived
them. Such is their distress, and so great
their diminution, that a few months must
complete ^eir ruin, they must be destroy-
ed without the honour of a battle, they
must sink under the fatigue of hungry
marches, by which no enemy is overtaken
or escapea, and be at length devoured
by those diseases, which toil and penuiy
will inevitably produce.
That the diminution of the influence of
the House of Bourbon is not an empty
opinion, which we easily receive, because
we wish it to be true ; that other nations
likewise see the same events with th^
same sentiments, and prognosticate the
decline of that power which has so long
intimidated the universe, appears firom tlie
declaration now made by his majesty
of the conduct of the Swemsh court.
That nation, which was lately governed
by the counsels and glutted with the boun<-
ties of France, whidi watched the nod of
her mighty oatroness, and made war i^
her commana against the Russian epopire^
now begins to discover that there are
[3H]
SSrr 1(|I3S0R6B;IL
0AcT powcn more worthy of conndMioo
end respect, more carefal to observe their
engagementi, or more able to fulfil them.
She uierefore requests the British monarch
to extricate her from those dMiculties
in which she is entangled by a blind com-
pliance with French dictates, to restore
to her the dismembered prorinces, and
recal that enemy which now impends
over her capital, and whom the French have
neither interest to appease, nor strength
to resist
Such, my lords, is the present pros-
pect which offers itself to him who surveys
Europe with a political view, and exa-
mines the present interest and dispositions
of neighbouring potentates ; sucn is the
order which has been produced from ge-:
neral confusion, and such the re-establish-
ment of equal power, which has succeeded
these concussions of the world*
It is no small addition to the pleasure
which this change must afford every man,
who has either wisdom to discover his
own happiness, or benevolence to rejoice
in that of others, that it has been the
effect not of chance but of conduct; that
it is not an unforeseen event, produced
by the secret operation of causes fortui-
toiwly concurring, but the residt of a
political and just design, well concerted
and steadily pursued; that every advan-
tage which has been gained, is the con-
■equence of measures lain to obtain it;
Chat our happiness has been procured by
lirudence, and that our counsda have not
been lucky but wise.
If we reflect, m^ lords, upon the causes
which have contributed to the rescue of
Europe from impending davery, which
have re-established the queen of Hungaiy
in her dominions, enabled her to lay waste
the. territories of her invaders, confirmed
her friends in their fidelity, and intimidated
those whom rival interests inclined to wish
her ftU, or the hope of sharing in the
plunder had incited to form designs against
ner; if we enquire to what it is to be
SMcribed, that she is able to form new
allianoes, and defend her dominions with
confederate armies, we shall find it easy
to trace all these revolutions to one cause,
the steady and prudent conduct of the
British monarch.
Our sovereisn, my lords, has looked on
the troubles of Europe with that coticem
which nublic virtue uspires : he has seen
Che Butferings of this illustrious princess
with that compassion which is always due
^ mi^nankmty oppressed, «nd formed
rosohitloai for her assistancb wifii tkst
ardotir, which oonrage naturally kindSei;
btit wUh that caution likewise and sectscf
which experience diotales. But he le-
memberea, my lords, diatlliough he m
the friend of the ^ueen of Hungary, he
was to consider hunself aa the nther of
the people of England; that he was not
to exhaust the toroes of this nation ia
romantic expeditions, or exhaust its tmp
sures in giving assistance which wtt not
needed.
He therefore waited to observe the
event of the war, and to discover whether
the incessant struggles of the Austriaos
would be able to throw off the load witb
which they were oppressed ; but he foasd
that their nirit, however ardent, canli
not supply the want of strength ; he found
that they were fisdnting dndter insuperiblc
labours, and that thou^ they were in ns
danger of being conquered by their ene*
mies, they must in a short time be wesriei
with their numbers.
His majesty then knew, my kvds»thi
by sending them speedy asaistaiice, be st
once promoted the interest of Ub people
and mt^ed his own inellnaiiom; lie
therefore supplied the qneen with lodk
sums as enaued her to levy new fbroei)
and drive her enemies before tier. Bypn^
curing a recondliation with ttse kmg d
PrussHi, he freed her from "tike nsareit ssi
most (brmidable danger, and gave her a
opportoni^ to secure heivdf against ike
menaclBs or other powen.
But thoo^ she was set free fiern ds*
meslic dangera, thot^ fai^aaioB wasdiivcD
from her capital, Oioi^ oifiMkj no
longer pttrsuixl her flight nor usomtioB
hovered over her throne^ her more oifttoi
dominions werestiBa pi«y tohercnesiiefc
The Spaniards had already landed one
army in Italy, with which anotfier wu
hastenbgtopoin. ThesocoessofthiseD-
terprize, iduch would Iwve gained tte
greatest part of Italy, could omy be hin-
dered by the fchig of Sardinia, who wsi
therefore solicited by the Spaniards snd
French to finroor their des^, widi tfae
strongest protestatbne, and the most mag*
nificent promises. But these were om-
balancea by the influenoe of the BrftiA
monarch, whose nttne was of suffidest
importance tomake the weaker partmoit
eligible, and to counter^bateoce the fone
of immediate interest
Thus was the passage into Italy barred
aiainst the S^iards, by obstacles which
ey can never surmoanti while the odMr
asT]
M He Addmi ofnanh.
A. D. 174&
[888
army iibe^lfid bv our fliel,,a9d by te
Auatriaos^ and reduced, iusfteari of goq-
quering kmgdoiiis, to change their campi
and resoiate their marches, with no iKher
▼lew toan tp avoid fiuninoi wfajlle that
prince^ whote dominions n^bt mo^t ^om**
modiou^y afibrd them succoiiv, and whom
an the ties of nature a^d of interest oblige
to aaust them, is awed by the British diips
of war, which li^ at anchor before his me-
tropolis, and of which th? commanders,
aponthe least suspicion of hostilities against
the queen of Hungpuy, threaten to batter
bis psb<es» and destroy his city*
In this asanner, my lords, kas his ma^
iesty assisted the Hou^ of Austria with
lis tressnn;s» his influenGe» and his nayy ;
thus does hie subdue some enemies, and
lestxain qtberss t^us does he hold the
bahmce of the war, ai»d tbua does he add
Ae we%ht of powar to the^cale of justice.
Bat to secure the success that has been
siready obtuned, and to take from the
SDcmies of li^erW all hopes of recovering
the advai^ws micb msy have lost, .be
hss now no longer confined bis assistance
to negodalioos and pecuniary suppUc^^
He knows that alliances are^ mwa^s beat
observed, when they confer' security, or
produce aoani&st advantages; and that
maoftf will not be alwavs equivalent to
srmies. He hap, therefore, now acted
oeenhr in de(ei»ce of his ally, has filled
nsnders once more with British troops,
snd ^unisoned the firontier towns with the
£Mrces of that natioa by which they were
gsined. The veteran |iow sees once more
the plainf over which he formerly pursued
the squadrons of ("rence, points the place
where be peiaed th^ ^andardf, or broke
the lines, where be trampled the oi>pre8«
son of mankmdt with tbiut spirit which is
enkindled by liberty and justice. His
(lesrt now beats once more at the sight of
thoie walls which he formeri^r stormed,
«&d he shews the wo^nds wmch he re<?
oeived in the mme or on the breach* The
French now dif^over, that they are no!
vet Iprda of the continent:, and that Great
Britain bas other armies readky to forcse
vacemore the paiv^of Scbellembounbpf
beak down the enti:enchments of Bien«r
bsioi; tQ anr^t fron them the |c«ptre of
universal monar^y, and Q9f^fi9» Uiem
•gain to tbeir owa donuoiops*
To the British raiments bia v^jef^ has
jojoed a large body of the forces of his owii
electorate, without re^d to th^ danger
which may threaten bis dominions in the
view than to secure the public tranquil,
lit^ at whatever hazard of his own, and
bemg convinced that private interest i$
most efiectually secured by a steady at#
tention to genml good*
These measures, my lords, undoubtedly
demand our gratitude and i^phiuse. Gra-
titude is always due to fiivourable inten*
tions, and diligent endeavours, even when
those intentions are frustrated, and those
endeavours defeated; and ^plause is often
paid to success, when it has been merely
the effect of chance, and been produced
by measures ill edited to the end which
was intended by them. But surely, whea
just des^pis have been haopily executed,
when wise n^easures are blesied with sue*
cess, neither envy nor hatred will dare to
refuse their acciamatidns; surdf those
will ^t hf^t congratulate, whom the cor-
ruption of th^ir nearts mnders from re-
joicing, and those who cannot love, will a(
least commend.
Here, ray lords, I suspect no inclinatioo
to depreciate the happiness that we eniojfi
or to calumniate that virtue by which !(
has been obtained; and therefore doubt
not but your lordships will readily concur
in the reasimaUe motion which Ihave now
to o&r :
** That an humble Address be presented
to his majesty, to return him the thankf
of this Ebuse for his most gracious speech
from the throne.
** To declare our just aenae of his mac
jesty's great care and vigilance for the
support oi the House of Austria, and for
restoring and securing the bajlanoe of
power.
*< To acknowledge bk majesty's great
wisdon^ and attection to the public wel-
^e, in sending so Qsnsiderable a body of
his forces into the Low Countries, and i^
strengthening them with his electoral
troops, and the Hessians in the British
pay; ^d thereby forming such an army
as may d^fi^nd ancl encourage those powers
who are widl intentioned, and give a re4
assiatance to the queen of Hungary) and to
assure bif majesty of the concurrence and
support of this Hous^ in this necessary
ineafure.
« To mqpreis our satisttietiQa in tbi
good eftcis whs^ the vigour eserted by
ureat pritain in aaiisting lU ancient alliea
and aaaintaining the liberties of Europe,
hath ahready he4 on the affiiira of the
qoeen of Hungary, and on the condoct of
several powers ; and our hopes that a
steady p^iQieveranfBe in the aanse raeasurea
839]
16 GBOROE IL
^ill inspire the like spirit and resolution
into other powers, equally engaged by
treaties and common interest to take the
like part.
" To give his majesty the strongest as-
sarances, that this House has the honour
and safety of his majesty, the true interest
and prosperity of his kingdom, the security
and advancement of their commerce, the
success of the war against Spain, and the
re-establishment of the balance and tran-
auillity of Europe, entirely at heart. That
liese shall be tne great and constant ob*
jects of our proceedings in all just and ne»
cessary measures for attaining those great
and desiiiable ends, and to stand by and
defend his majesty against all his enemies."
Lord Montfort :
My lords; the motion oflfered by
the noble lord, is in my opinion so proper
and just, so suitable to the dignity of this
assembly, and so expressive of the gra*
titude which the vigilance of his maiesty
for the public good ought to kindle in
every heart not chilled by ungenerous in-
dolence, or hardened b^ inveterate disaf-
fection, that I cannot discover any reason
for which it can be opposed, and therefore
hope that every noble lord will concur in it
with no less alacrity and zeal than I now
tise up to second it.
It may indeed naturally be hoped from
this House, that his majesty's measures
will be readily approved, since tliey are
such as even malice and faction will not
dare to censure or oppose, such as ca-
lumny will not venture to defame, and
such as those who will not praise them can
never mention. If it be allowed, that the
interest of France is opposite to that of
Great Britain, that the equipoise of power
on the continent is to be preserved ; if any
of the counsels of our ancestors deserve our
attention, if our victories at Cressy or at
Kamillies are justly c^ebrated by our
historians, the wisdom of our sovereign's
conduct cannot be denied.
* The French, my lords, whom our armies
in the reign of queen Anne saw flying be»
fore them, who, from dividing kingdoms,
and prescribing laws to mankind, werere-
duced to the defence of their own country,
who were driven from entrenchment to
entrenchment, and from one fortification
to another, now grown insolent with the
pleasures of peace, and the affluence of
commerce, have forgotten the power by
which their schemes were baffled, and
their arrogance repressed; by which their
Debate in the Lords [840
ftbric of universal monardhy was shat-
tered, and themselves almost buried in the
ruins.
Infdtuated with the contemplation of
their own force, elated with theteomber of
their troops, die magnificence of dudr
cities, and the opulence of their treasury,
they have once more imagined tliemadves
superior to resistance, and again aspire to
the command of the universe ; they have
now for some time assumed the liai:^ty
style of the legislators of manfciiWi ; and
have expected, that princes shdiild appeal
to them as to the hi^iett human tribnn^
and that nations should submit their claims
to their arbitration ; they have already as-
sumed the distribution of domimonSy and
expect that neither peace shall be con-
cluded, nor war proclaimed, but by dieir
permission or advice.
By this gradation of exorbitant chums and
oj^ressive measures have they at lensUi ar^
nved, my lords, at the summit of inso-
lence ; by these steps have they aacended
once morethe towenng throne of aniversal
monarchy ; nor was any thing wanting to
complete their plan, but that their anci^t
rival, the German empire, should be re*
duced to acknowledge their sovereignty,
and that the supreme dignity of Europe
should be the gift of the French bounty.
The death of the late emperor without
sons, furnished them with an opportunity
of executing their design, too favourable
to be neglected. They now imagined it
in their power not only to dispose of the
imperial diniity, but to divioe the do-
minions of tne House of Austria into many
petty sovereignties, incapable singly o^
opposing them, and unlikely to nnite in
any common cause, or to preserve a con
federacy unbroken, if they should by ac-
cident agree to form it.
They therefore sent their armies into
Germany, to superintend the approaching
election, and by hovering over the ter-
ritories of princes unable to resist them,
extorted voices in favour of their ally: a
prince, whose dominions must by their
situation always oblige him to compliance
with the demands, and to concurrence in
the schemes of his protectors, and who will
rather act as the substitute of Fhmce, than
the emperor of Germany.
But It was to no purpose that they had
graced their dependant with titeriar ho-
tiours and ensigns of sovereignty^ if the
House of Austria still retained its here-
ditarydominion8,and preserved its strength
^en it had lost ila .dignity. Thej wdl
Ml]
on the Address of Thanks.
A. D. 174^
t849
knew, that annies were equally fbrmidable
whether commanded by an emperor, or an
inferior sovereign ; and that a mere altera-
tion of names, though it might afiord a
slight and transient gratification to vanity,
would -produce no real encrease or diminu-
tion of power.
They therefore thought it necessary to
ifflprove the present time of confusion, and
excite aH the princes of the empire to re-
hire ^leir ancient claims upon the Aus-
trian territories ; chiims, which how long
soever they had been forgotten, howsoever
jd)rogated by long prescription, or an-
nuD^ by subsequent treaties, were now
again to become valid, and to be decided
bj the arbitration of France.
But this project being defeated by the
heroic constancy of the queen of Hungary,
whose wisdom and resolution, which will
equal her name in future histories with
those of the most successful conquerors,
rejected their mediation, and refused to
own her right doubtful, by submitting it to
be tried ; Uiey were obliged no longer to
dissemble their designs, or make further
pretences to respect or tenderness. Her
fall was necessary to their own exdtation ;
they therefore kindled a general confla-
gration of war, they excited all the princes
to take arms against her, and fbund it in-
deed no difficult task to persuade them to
attack a princess, whom tb^ thought un-
able to form an army, whom they believed
they should rather pursue than engage,
and whose dominions mi^t be overrun
without bloodshed, and whom they should
conquer only by marching against.
Such a combination as this, a combina-
tion of monarchs, of which each appeared
able singly to have carried on a war
againjst her, nothing but the highest de-
gree of magnanimity could have formed a
design of resisting ; nor could that resist-
ance have procured the least advantages,
or retarded for a single day thd calamities
that were threatened, had it not been re-
gulated by every martial virtue, had not
policy united with courage, and caution
*'ith acthrity.
Thus did tiie intrepidity of this princess^
iny lords, support her agamst tl^e storms
^t shook her kmgdom on every side ?
thus did those, whom her virtues gained
over to her service, and whom her exam-^
F^ animated with contempt of superior
numbers, defend lier a^iost the forces of
^ the surrounding natidns, led on' by mo-
■^rcht, and elated wilh the prOi|>ect of an
•^yconquest- • .
But the utmost that could be hdped
from the most refined stratagems, or the
most exalted courage, was only that her
ikte might be deferred, that she should not
ildl whblly unreveneed, that her enemies
would suffer with her, and that victory
would not be g^ned without a battle, u
was evident, that bravery must in time
gtve way to strength, that vigour must be
wearied, and policy exhausted, that by a
constant succession of ^new forces, the
most resolute troops must be overwhelmed }
and that the House of Austria could only
gain by the war, the fatal honour of being
gloriously extinguished.
This his majesty's wisdom easily ena«
bled him to discover, and his goodness in«
cited him to prevent ; he called upon all
the powers, who had promised to preserve
the Pragmatic Sanction, to have regard to
the faith of nations, and by fulfillmg their
engagements, to preserve the liberties of
Europe; but the success of his remon-
strances only afforded a new instance of the
weakness of justice, when opposed to in*
terest or fear. All the potentates of the
continent were restrainea by the threats,
orgainedbythe promises of France; and
the disposal of the possessions of. the Au»*
triah House, seemed by the general con*
sent of Europe, to be resigned to the'fii-
mily of Bourbon.
But our sovereign was not yet discou*
raged from asserting the rig^ 'which he
h^ promised to maintain, nor did he
think the nieglect or treachery of otibers m
sufficient reason for refusing that assist^
ance, which justice and policy equally re^
quired. He knew the power of^ his own'
kingdom, and though he did hot omit't^
cultivate alliances, he was conscious of^ hie
ability to jproceed without them ; and
therefore showed, by 'sending his troopi
into the Austrian territories, that the me*'
sures of the king of Eneland were not Se
be regulated by either his enemies, or his
confi^erates; that this .nation isyetaMe
to support its own claims, and protect
those of ks allies ; and that while we at-^
tack one of the kingdoms of the House of
Bourbon, we are not afraid to set die
other at defiance.
>The efiects of this cooductj my lords^
were immediately apparent ; the king of
Sardinia engaged to oppose the entrance
of the Spaniards into Italy ; the king of
Prussia not only made a peace with the
queen of Hungary, by whom he was more
to be dreaded than any other enemy, but
entered into an aUkmic^witb his nu^y»
MS} Iflt GBORGB U.
who hai^Buide no nuD addkioa !• hk in*
fluenoe, by asolbcr Irait j with the bmK
poworfvl nationt of die nMllu
ThuB, mjr brd% aio tho droodM MM of
FrancOy which aie nover eafdoyed but ia
the deteftable ead horrid j^Iea of etHiai^
ing 8hMrery» eod auppoituig opprewooi
stooped ID the fuU outer of suocesB. Thue
if the scheme of imiTeml meoordiy once
more bUwted, ead the world tauglu^ thai
the pras^vatioo of the v^h^ of nai^ud^
the securi^ of n^ieQ» and the establish*
ment of peace^ are not iiiipraotiori»ley that
the power of Britain if yet andmiinwhedi
and that her spirit is not yet difwesse^
. By hisameity'scoiidttct^my fends^the
reputatioft of our couatry is now raised to
its utmost height ; we are aew considered
as the arbiters of eaoipire^ the. pretoctors of
riffbty the patrons or distress^ and the sus*
taiaers of the baknoe of the workL I
cannot therefore but GOSMBliide» that no
man in thia House will be anwilling to ac-
kaewled^ that wisdom and maness,
which not only this natkm^ bat ^e gamaiasl
part of the univeraa, will remember with
mnatitude in the remotastr ages^ and that
file motion which 1 now seeond, will be
universally approved.
Hie Eari of Cheaerfidd:
My lords; though the motian has
beaa» by the noble lord who made it, in-
trodnoed with all the aK of rhetoric, and
onforeed bv him that seoeodsd it» with the
Vimost aadour of neal^ and die highest
npttties cf satisfiictioo and gratiMies
though all the lale measures haw been i^
oommeaded to our apphwsa, as preofii of
the anadsat fidelity, and dm moat an*
rous policy I and though I am very
from inlendii^ to chi^ga them with
liaalrnom or i^ustice, or from pnetending
to havo dkaovesed in Asm a aecaet ten-
• doneytoadfanoeany inteioitinopposition
la that of Gioat Botain, I am yit imt
aMa to prevail upan mfBelf to suppvam
i^m% scmplea which binder me fiem con«
earring with them, and from mpsoTiog the
JUidrasa whlah is now pnwosedi
I am lam indinet^ my lard^ to fiwour
die present motion, beoums I have low
i^gW desiiNiua ef aeeing the andent method
af g^aral addresses levived by this House;
% method of addrem bv which our princes
^pera aaiwenoed wilhout fitttteiy, and
vhich left us at liber^ to honour the
fpown, without descandrng to idoliae the
mjnisivy.
Itaowjmt, mykMBlHwiMadMilwm
IMaieintkeLomU
(JBH
conn*
de.
The
has so
iadined
are long
up their
th«r
have been procured by an
tion of the speeches from the throne,
evergraoiousorcKceDent. For
we hare certainly obtained no ]
deoce from the crown, nor any
pree of honour among the
mcense, which from our o
Ion§ peifumed the paiaoe, has
the naticm to surest, that we
enough inured to idolatry » to "
properties {sx a sacrifioa^ wJ
shal) be mquired ; and I cannot diaBrmhle
my suq^on^ that aloogcootxanance of
this cMSto«^ may give sopo anabitioaa or
onpressive prince in some distant age,
whsa perhaps this beaeficent smd illus-
trious family nu^ be extinot» the oonfr*
deace to demand it.
I cannot but be of opinion, aod hope
your lordshios will be conyiaced upon
ymry short rt^ection, that these ia a a^Is
of servility, which it becomes not tfiis
House to use ev^ to our mnnarcha : ws
are to remeoaber, indeed^ that vewmreoos
which is always due from subjecta^ but to
peserve likewise that di^iity which is
mmparable from independanoa msd legis-
lative aMkhofity.
That we ought not to demand to the
meanest of flattery, that we ou^ to fve-
serve the privile|EO of speaking, without
eau^gfomlsd pmises^ or afiectaid adcaow*
lodgements^ our re^ipd not only to our-
selves, but to our severely, oi^lis to re-
mind us. For nothing is mere evident,
my loids, than that no monarch can be
happ^ while his neopleaKeaaiserable; that
the throne can be secure onlv by hekkg
guarded b^ the aCBgetioos of tho peo-
ple; mid tto prince can only gam and
preserve their aftction^ by praGaottng
their iotarestt and supporting their pri-
vilegss.
mt how, my lords, shall that monarch
distinguish the interest of his people,
whom none shall dare to approach with
information) How shall their privileges be
supported, if, when they are infringed^ no
man will complain? And who riiaU dare
to lay any public srievancea, or private
wrongs, hefim the hag of Great IMtain,
if the huihest assembly of the nation shdl
never aodram Urn bat in tenns of flattery ?
The necessity of putting an end to this
corrupt costom, becomes ove^ day more
and more uigent; the.affiurs oi Earape
are hastening to a crins^ in which aU our
prudence, and all our inflaenoe,* will be
oaiqijreds aod wo ^m^t thaaafiMia to take
care not io perplex our mriyijonir by
US]
on ih$ Addrm ^^Iknlu
''itiSftxiMk
vriunttTf ifRfOMBicCy ot doMibv
by a [mbue uporobatm kJt
which we aie weU kiumn im to
mtAet*
I suppoM, none of yoar iMdAhifM^ wfa*
ire Dot fensa^ed in tlie adomulmition of
iftirs, win think It derogttMnry ftota the
reputation tffyour abilities and eicperienGe,
to confeai, that yon do not yet see nH the
crrcumstancea or conaequ'eneea df the
measurea which you are defined to ap-
id; meaanreB which have been too
ly taken to discover their own ten-
dency, and with relation to which no pa-
pen hate been laid before in. We are
told of atmiea joined, and treatiea condnd-
td,and therefore caUed upon to ^m&Bib the
wisdom of our negociationsy ani the uae-
liilDesf and vigour of our military prepara-
tioos; though we are neither acquainted
on what tenna our alliancea nre formed,
nor on what conditions our auxiliaries as-
sist ub.
This, my lords, ismirely such trentment
18 DO hWal mind can very patiently sup-
port; it is little less than to require that
we should follow our guides with our eyes
ihot; that we should place implicSt coofi-
dence in the wisdom of our ttunters, and
laving first suffered them to bfind our-
selTcs, saaiat then afterwaiA to Ulind the
pe^le.
The longer I dwell upon the considers*
lion of this motion, the more 'orgmnents
arise to persuade me, (faatwte eugfat not
hastfly to agree to it. My loifls, the ad-
dress propo^, like tiie speech itself, is of
tveiy comjj^icated and intricate kind, and
comprises m a few words many tiansac-
tions of great inipoftonce, crowded together
with an artful brevity, that the mind may
be hindered by the multitude of imagea,
from a diatinct and deliberate considera-
tion of particulars. Here are acts of
Deviation confounded witii operations of
war, one treaty entaagjled wiih another,
tnd the union of the Hanoverians with
our troops, mentioned almost in the same
Knteoce with the Spanish war. This
crowd of transadiona, so diflforent in their
uuire, so various in tfieir consequences,
who can venture to approve in the gross?
or who can disUngunb without long exa-
fiunation?
I hope, my lords, that I shall not be
pharged with want of csmdonr, in suppos-
iog the motion not to be im extempo*
^t&eous composition, but to be drawn op
with art and ddiberatioo. It is well
bowui that the address is often concerted
A. O. 1741 (Bil
w^itoitaM ifaMthat theapeeA ia eeoh
poaed; and^dMlliaBOtuDoonsnontotato
advantage of the superiority which long
acquaintance with the queation gives those
^o MfstiA the motion, above those who
oppose It*
WenreMeed cold, that the visMe of*
fectB of hAs majesty^ measures prove tlidr
evpgdiency, abd thatwe may aal^y ap-
pliiud that condtttt of wluch we receive
the bencAts. 9m, my lords, the advan-
tages oMustbeseenorfek before they caft
be prepet ly acknowledged \ and it has nat
been shown, that we mte yet eitfier inti-
raidated the enetoies of die ^qaeen of
Hungary, whose interest we have been
lately taught to bcAieve insepan^ble frotti
amr own, or enoourmed any new allies to
dedare in her ftvour.
The Dutch, my lords, are net yet
roused from their uumber of neutrality ;
and how loudly soever we may assert our
zeal, or with whatever pomp we may dia«
play our strength, they still seem to doidit
either -cat integrity or force ; and are
afraid of engaging m the quarrel, lest thinf
should be either conquered or betrayee.
Kor has the approach of our army, how-
ever they may be dcS^ted witli tae show,
inspired them with more courage, though
thejr are enforced by Ae treops of Hmi*
over.
The ad£tion of these foreea to the Bri*
tiah armvy has been inentiened as an in-
stance of uncommon attention to the sreat
cause df tmivernal liberty, as a proof that
no r^ard has been paid toprivate interest,
and thai all oonsideralaoiis are aaerificvl
to public good. But sinoa no lerviee can
be so gr^ but it may be oveipaid, it is
necessary that we may judge 'Of ine beneflty
to inform us on wlxat tettts it hasbett
obtained, and how well the aet of soeoes-
sion has been obaerved on dds oceasien.
Thouffh I am too well aooiiainted» n^
lords, wAi the manma whidi prennl in
the present age, and have had too iliiM9t
" experience cn Ine motives, by whidi tho
decisions of pnVement are iduenced, ^
olfer any motion of bqt 'Own, yet these
ifwmns will withhold me from coacurriag
with this. I cannot but be of opiinoay
that the question ought to be pos^oned
to another day, m whidi the House magr
be foUer, our ddiberatioDs be assisted l^
the wisdom and experience of more uaaa
thirty lords, who are now absent, and tao
subjects of enqufay, Of Which mahy are
new and unexpected, maybe more aoca-
ratdy considered ; nor can I prfvail upon
•47]
16 GBQRQil IL
KJf^ti^ tn ihe Lords
[848
myielf to reUim to flf ««c«l diwIimliniMi
«i]^ other than general apswert.
Lord Carteret :
Mj lords; as there' has arisen ho
new question, as his majesty, iq assistioff
the queen of Hungary, has only fbUowea
the advice of parfiainent; I am far from
being able to discover, why any long deli-
beration diould be necessary to a concur-
Knce with the motion now before us, or
whence any doubt can arise with regard
to the effects of his majestv's meaaures ;
.effects which no man wdl deny, who will
believe either his own eyes, or the testi«
jnony of others ; effects which every man
who surveys the state of Europe must
perceive, and which our friends and our
enemies will equally confess.
To these measures, which we are now
to consider, it must be ascribed, that the
French are no longer lords of German v ;
that they no longer hold the princes of the
Empire u^ subjection, lay provinces waste
At pleasure, and sell their friendship on
.their own terms. By these measures nave
the Dutch been dehvered from their ter-
rors, and encouraged to deliberate freely
upon the state of Europe, and prepare for
the support of tlie Pragmatic Sanction.
But the common cause has been most
avidently advanced by gaining the king of
. Prussia, by whose defection the balance
. of the war was turned, and at least 30,000
men taken away from the scale of France.
This, my lords, was a change only to
, be effected by a patient expectation of op-
pc^unities, and a politic improvement of
casual advantages, and by contriving me-
thods of reconciling the interest of Prussia
^with the friendship of the queen of Hun-
^aiy ; for princes, like other men, are in-
clined to prefer their own interest to all
other motives, and to follow that scheme
which shall promise most gain.
That all this, my lords, has been effected,
.cannot be denied; nor can it be said to
have been effected by any other causes
.than the conduct of Great Britain: had
thia nation looked either with cowardly
.despair, or nedigent inactivity, on the
^fmng power of France and the troubles of
^^' continent ; had the distribution of em-
b^en left to chance, our thoughts
to commerce, and our
extended beyond our own
^es of Europe had been
£rench haa establbhed
H,tbe secure possession of
W^phy^ woula henceforth
have set mankind at defiance,tBdimit()ned
without fear in oppression and inaoknce.
ThcHM^ my lords, are cooseque&oes of
the measures pursued by his majesty, of
which neither the reality nor the it^ort-
ance can be questioned^ and therefore
they may doubtless be approved without
hesitation. For surely, my kirds, the ad-
dition of the Hanoverian troops to tba
forces of our own nation cun nuse no
scruples, nor be represented as any viola-
tion of the Act of Settlement.
or the meaning of that memorable ad,
I believe, I do not need any infonnatioD.
I know it is provided, that this nalion shall
not be engaged in war in the quarrel of
Hanover ; but I see no traces of a red{)ro-
cal obligation, nor can discover anydauie,
by which we are forbidden to make use b
our own cause of the alliance of Hanwrer,
or by which the Hanoverians are forbiddeQ
to assist us.
I hope, my lords, this representatioo of
the state of our transactions with Hanover,
will not be charged with artifice or »>
phistry. I know how invidious a tasks
undertaken by him who attempts to shev
any connection between interests so gene-
rally thought opposite, and am suppoited
in this apology only by the consciousnea
of integrity, and the intrepidity of truth.
The assistance of Hanover, my lords,
was at this time i^parently neces^.
Our own troops, joined with the Hessians,
composed a body too small to make any
efficacious opposition to the designs of
France; but by the addition of 16,000
men, became sufficiently formidable to ob-
lige her to employ those troops for the
security of her frontiers, with which she
intended to have overwhelmed Ital^, ^
to have exalted another Spanish prince to
a new kingdom. The Spaniards, deprrred
of this assistance, harassed by the Aostrians
with perpetual alarms, and debarred by
our fleet from the supplies which are pn^
vided for them in their own country, mifit
languish with penury and hardships, beisg
equally cut off from succour and from
flight.
Thus, my lords, it is evident, that the
true and everlasting interest of Great
Britain has been steadily pursued; that
the measures formed to promote it have
been not only prudent, but successful.
We did not engage sooner in the quarreli
because we were not able to form an army
sufficiently powerful. An advantageous
peace is only to be obtained by vigorou*
preparations for war; nor is it to be ex-
49] on the Addrm ^ Thanks,
ected that our enemies should court our
leodshlp, till they see that oip opposition
( reaUy formidable. Such, my lords, is
ur present state; we may reasonidjly
ope that the French will desist from their
lesigQs, because they will have a confede-
acy to oppose, more powerful than that
>j which their immortal monarch was
ately humbled ; and I hope that conduct
rill always be applauded in this House,
rhich enables us to repress the arrogance
if France.
A. p. 1742.
[850
The Earl of We$tmordand :
My lords ; though the warmth with
vhich the noble lord has defended the
motion, and the confidence with which
be asserts the propriety and efficacy of
the measures to which it relates, are such
proofii of the strength of his conviction as
leave no room to doubt his sincerity; yet
as the same arguments do not operate
Qpon different mmds with the same force,
I hope I shall not be thought less sincere,
or less studious of the pubBc happmess, or
the honour of the crown, thoi^ I pre-
Bume to differ from him.
In the motion now before us, 1 cannot
concur, because, though it should be ^-
lowed to contain a just representation of
foreign a&irs, yet it appears to me to
omit those considerations which I think it
the duty of this House to offer to his
iBajesty. This nation is, in my opinion,
exposed to enemies more formidable than
the French ; nor do I think that we are at
leisure to defend the liberties jcS Europe,
till we have made some provisions for the
security of our own ; or to regulate the
balance of power, till we have restored
our institution to its ancient equilibrium.
l^t there are flagrant proofs of the
most enormous corruption throughout the
vhole subordination of public omces ; that
our public funds are only nurseries of
inmd, and that trust of every kind is only
considered as an opportunity of plunder-
o^gi appears evidently from the universal
prevaleQce of luxury and extravagance,
ibm the sudden affluence of private men,
from the wanton riot of their tables, the
'egal splendour of their equipages, and the
ostentatious magnificence of their build-
t is evident likewise, that corruption Is
not confined to public offices ; that those
*ho have lost tneir pwn integrity, have
^<leatoured to destroy the virtue or others;
^attempts have been made to subject
the whde nation to the influence of cor-
[VOUXII.]
ruption, and to spread the contagion of
bribery firom the highest to the lowest
classes of the people.
It is therefore necessary before we en-
gage in the consideration of foreign af-
fairs, to prosecute the enquiry which was
begun in the last session, to trace wick-
edness to Its source, and drag the authors
of our miseries into the light
These, my lords, ^ are the enquiries
which the general voice of the people im-
portunately demands ; these are the peti-
tions which ought never to be rejected ;
all parties are now united, and all animo-
sities extinguished; nor is there any
other clamour than for enquiries fi'om par-
liament* .
The other House, my lords, has been
engaged in the laudable attempt to detect
those who liave betrayed or plundered,
or corrupted, their country; and surely
we ought to have so much regard to our
own honour, as not to suffer them to toil
alone in a design so popular, so just, and
so necessary, while we amuse ourselves,
with applauding the si^city of our minis-
ters, who, whatever they may hope them-
selves, or promise others, nave not yet
prevailed on any foreign power to concur
with them, or to interpose in the affidrs
of the continent, And therefore I can-
not conceal my suspicion, that instead of
furnishing any subject for panegyrics on
our policy and caution, we are now wast-
ing our treasures, and our strength in a
romantic expedition.
^ Since thlerefore, my lords, our domes-
tic evils seem to me most dangerous, I
move that in order to theur speedy remedy,
and that the people may see we do not
forget their immediate interest, this Ad-
dition be made to the Motion now be-
fore US!
*^ And humbly to assure his mMesty,
that we will apply our constant and per-
severing endeavours to calm and heal
animosities and divisions, unseasonable as
Uiey are at all times, and most pernicious
in the present juncture, which the true
fatherly tenderness of his majesty, out of
the abundance of his constant care for the
riffhts and liberties of his people, has so
a&ctionately at the close of last session
recommended from the throne, by search-
ing thoroughly and effeptually into the
erounds, whicK are or may t>e assigned
for public dkcontent, agreeably to the.-
ancient rules and methods of parliament*'*
.This additional clause beins delivered
in wilting to the Lord Chancellor, he read
[SI]
851]
16 GEORGE U.
The King^s Answer.
[85S
it to the House, but said that his lord--
ship spoke so low, that he could not tell
where he proposed to have it inserted.
The earl or tVestmordand then direct-
ed him to read the motion, which done*
he desired that his clause might be added
at the end.
Lord Raymond :
My lords ; the Addition which the
noble lord has offered to the Address pro-
posed, cannot, in my opinion, be properly
' admitted, as it has nd relation to the pre-
' cedine clauses, but is rather inconsistent
with mem. Nor do I think it only ifti-
preper with regard (o the other part of
the. motion, but unnecessary in itself;
' since it has no reference to his majesty's
speech, now under our consideration;
smce it will facilitate none of our enqui-
ries, which may be carried on with equal
vigour without any such unseasonable de-
claration of our design. If, therefore, the
motion for the amendment be not with-
drawn, 1 shall move that the first question
be first put.
The question was then put upon the
marquis of Tweedale^s motion, and it
Sossed in the affirmative, without any
ivision.
The Lords* Address of Thanks.l The
Address was as follows :
" Most Gracious Sovereign,
*^ We, your majesU^'s most dutiful and
' loyal subjecte, the Lords spiritual and
temporal in parliament assembled, beg
leave to return your majesty our sincere
and humble Thanks for your most gra-
cious Speech from the throne.
" The support of the House of Austria,
and the restoring and securmg the balance
of power, are of so great moment, as well
Id the essential interests of this nation in
particular, as to the liberties of Europe
Di genera], that we esteem it our peculiar
felicity, in this critical and dangerous con-
juncture, to have a prince upon the throne,
who not only shews the most gracious
regard to the advice of his parliament
upon this important subject, but takes all
opportunities to confirm and animate them
in the pursuit of it. We acknowledge,
with hearts full of gratitude, your majes-
ty's royal wisdom and effectual care in
carrying on this great work, which has
appear^ in nothing more than in sending
so considerable a body of your forces into
the Low Countries,' and in strengthening
tliem afterwards wiiii your electoral troops.
and the Hessians in the British pay. 67
this step, so honourable to your majesty,
and so advantageous to your allies, your
majesty has demonstrated that you prefer
this glorious cause to all other con&ideia-
tiohs, and have formed such an army, as
may at once defend and encourage those
powers who are well intentioned, and give
a real assistance to the queen of Hungary:
and we beg leave to assure your majesty
of our cheerful and zealous concorroice
and support in this necessary measore.
** The g-QOd efecta, which the vigour
exerted by Great Britain, under your ma-
jestj^s authority and influence, in assist-
mg its ancient allies, and maintaining the
liberties of Europe, hath already had npoa
tlie affiurs of the queen of Hungary, upon
the conduct of several powers, and tht
state of Europe in general, are Ttnble to
all the world. It is widi the utmost soIb-
faction we observe them; and rely on
your majesty's known care and attentioB
to the publu; welfare, to pursue and im-
prove Uiem ; and we cannot but entertaa
well-grounded hopes, that so great an ex-
ample, and a steady perseverance in the
same measures, will inspire the fike spirit
and resolution into other powers, eqna%
engaged by treaties and common interest,
to take the like part. *
« Your majesty has laid before us so
just a representatian of the impoctance of
our deliberation at Ais time, as cannot
fail to make an impression upon all true
lovers of their country, equal to the digni-
ty and weight of it. Permit us on oar
parts, to give your majesty the strongest
assurances tliat we have the honour and
safety of your majesty, the true interest
and prosperity dP your kingdoms, tht
secunty and advancement of their com-
merce; the success of the war against
Spain, and the re-establishment of tha
balance and tranquillity of Europe, entirely
at heart. These shall be the constant
objects of our proceedings and resolutions,
from which we will never depart ; beii^
firmly detenniaed td support your majesty
in all just and necessaiy measures for at*
taining thoise great and desirable ends,
and to stand by and defend your ma-
jesty, and your government^ against ill
your enemies.**
The King*s Anst»er.2 His aajesty re-
turned this Aiiswef^
*<My Lords, "
**THeAuir and afiection,- which yoo
express in tms Address, &r wy persos
833j Debate in th^ dmmmis^mi the Address of Thanks. A. D« 1742.
[85*
aD4 gOY/KmmeiU^aw^,^qj5pqjpapJ«^ '•^i* «o»
^reat zeal^i: tl}e.c9ina^(m.qai^e» and the
tru^intere9( of my kiogdoxns^ B& gives me
the iitaK>sl ^ftatidTactioo. I tnanic . you
heartily fcjf }t; and doubt not hut yonr'.
vigorous ^u(iport» so early ^nd unanimous-
ly giyep, wul have the Dest effects, both
atbome mki/^oad.'* ^ .
Dehute in the Commons on the Address
•J Thanks^ ^ The' Commons being re-
lumed to their House, .
Lord llartingion rose and mqved^
^ That an huml3e Address b^^ presented
to his majesly, to xeturn his majesty the
thanks of this House for his most gracious
Speech from the. throne. ; to ^express, our
|reat satisfaction at &e constant attention
m majesty lia^ been.mcibusly pleased to
give to the advice of his parliament ; and
to assure his liiajesty, that, as we ^^ink the
support of the Ilo^se*of Austria, and the
mtoring and securing the balance' of
power in Europe, are inseparable from the
true interest ot th^se kingdoms, we have a
grateful s^nse of the. e^rly care his majesty
took in forming such a force, in the Low
Countries, 9s. might be of service to those
great and desi^le ends ; , which, we are
satisfied, could Qot,at tliat.tipie, have been
10 readUy and effectually' done, as by hb
majesty's seiiding a body ^ of his electoral
^^Pf* together with the Hessians, to joip
the British and Austrian forces in those
parts ; and that this House .wilj cheerfully
and effectually sup'port his majesty in au
such necessary measures \ to congratulate
his majesty oa the happy turn of affairs in
the North; and. to ;aecrare, that we are
fullif convinced, that it is' pwipg to the
spirit and, vigour,, which his majesty has
sbewnin the defence of hi? allies, that the
king of Sardinia h^ been enabled to act a
part so useful to the common cause; and
that the queen of Hungary has been en-
courage to bear up amidst extreme diffi-
culties, and notwithstanding the numerous
enemies sent against her; to assure his
majesty that this House vviU grant to his
niajesty such supplies, as shall be found
necessary for perfecting the great work in
which he is. engaged, for prosecuting with
vigour tlie just and necessary war with
Spain, and for ipiaintaining the honour and
Mcurity of his majesty aM his kingdQms ;
and that in all our deliberations we wiU (en-
deavour to make manifest to the world,
wat we hav^ nothtng so 'iliuch at heart as
me honour of his liiajesty^ the support of
J«goverataenL and the true interest 9^
hw crown tod langdoms:*'* .•' " ' •'
This motion t)eing seconded, a debate ,
ensued,* in which several members ob-
jected to t]ie same, as itnplying too hasty
an approbatioa of the meiosures of the mi^
nistry.
Sir Watkin WUliams Wynn spoke as
followa:
Mr. Speaker ; what happened to-
wards the end of last session, gave me a
strong suspicion, that our new ministers
would not only tread the steps of the old,
but would endeavour to improve every^
bad precedent introduced by any of theu:'
predecessors: their conduct since that
time has 'added to this suspicion; and
the motion now made to you has con-
firmed it. Every one must remember
how, violently some .gentlemen in both
Houses of Farliament have for several
years been exclaiming against the late
custom of making long complaisant Ad-
dresses to the crown, by way of answer to
his majesty's Speech from the throne;
and with how much zeal they endeavoured
to persuade us, to return to our old cus-
tom of presenting a short general Address
upon such occasions. Yet no sooner have
those getitlemen got into power, and I be-
lieve but a very small snare of it, tham
theyquite alter their tone, and propose to
us a much longer, and, I thinlc, a more pa-
rasitical Address than was ever proposed
by any of their predecessors.
Surely, Sir, they must have a most con-
temptible opinion of this House, if they
exfUect, that we should plunge into high
encomiums upon measures which we know
nothing of,' and assert fdcts which it is not
possible for tis to tell whether they be true
or not. If we confiply with such a rcguest,
I must day, they or their successors, for I
foresee their reigti will not be long, will
have relason to cry out with the Roman
emperor, they are shocked with the slavish
complaisance of the British senate. Whea
1 say this, Sir, 6very' gentleman must see,
that I point at those expressions in the
tnotion, which propose our declaring that
we have a grateful sense of the early care
His maje^y took, in forming such a force
in. the l^ow Countries, as raightbe of ser-
vice to the support of the House of Aus-
tria, aind restofing* the balance of power ;
that this could not liave been so effectually
done as by his majesty's sending a body of
his electoral ttoops into those parts ; and
that the king of Sardinia's b^ing enabled
' e-Frpm the {/oodim Bfagaziae.
855] 16 GEORGE IL
to act a part useful to the oomiiion cause,
and the queen of Hunjgazy's bebff encou-
raged to bear up amidst her difficulties,
are owing to the spirit and vigour his map
jesty has shewn in the defence of his aDies.
f fox God's sake. Sir, what have we now
bdbre us, that can ffive the least authority
for any of those £tterinff declarations ?
His msjesty*s Speech, indeed, seems to
give some sort m authoribr, but it is an
estabiished maxim in this House, to look
upon that as the speech of the ministers ;
and ministers, we know, are not very scru-
pulous in asserting facts, which, they think,
flbay tend to a justification of Uieir con-
duct, as is manifest ftom many speeches
during our late administration, and parti-
cularly from that Speech made by our mi-
nisters in the year 1726-7,* which is, per*
haps, one of the lonsest and most stuffed
with bold assertions, Uiat was ever attempt-
ed to be passed upon a British parliament ;
and every one may now see the misfor<»
tunes naturally flowing from the conduct
which that Speech was intended to justify.
The facts asserted in tliat Speech were such
as have since appeared to be fidse, and, in-
deed, they were such as from the very
nature of things would have appeared sus-
Sicious to an independent and unpreju-
iced parliament; we therefore never
ought, m our Address, to repeat any of
those facts mentioned or referred to in the
{Speech from the throne ; much less in our
Address, to declare our satisfation with re-
gard to any circumstance that may proba-
bly, upon a strict examination, appear to
be false, which is, I think, the case with
r^anl to several circumstances mentioned
in this oroposition. That his majesty has
sent a few of his British troops to Flanders
is certamly true, and, I believe, we shall
very soon find it to be so, by tlie demands
made upon us for their support and trans-
portation ; but how tliey can, in that coun-
S^, be of any service to the queen of
ungary, or to^ the restoring or the ba-
lance of power, is more than I can compre-
hend, unless it could be said, that the
Dutch are to join with us, in order to forp
an army for attacking France upon that
side; and if I am rightly informed, the
contrary of this is true ; for, I believe, they
have declared to us, that whoever strikes
the first blow in that part of the world,
thev will look upon as their enemies, and
Vill treat them as such. But suppose,
Sir, that the force we have sent to Flan-
bei
•SeeVol.a,p.5ad.
Debate im-ihe Commons
ders could there be of aaysonriestotbs
queen of Hungaiy, or the bshooe d
pow^r, can we sav, it has been done euly!
£ariy with regard to idiat,Sr^ Sarely,it
cannot be said to have been done oaiy
mth regard to the season of die year * fiic
the time for action ^was almost over before
they were sent there. And with regard to
the war now carrying on against the qaeea
of Hungary, I am sure, it cannot be bimI
to have been done earlv; for if itbadnot
been for the surprising ndelity and biaveij
of her own subjects, and the more air<
rising ill conduct of her enemies, she hid
sen obliged to submit to a caite-blanche
lonp before we sent a man mto Flanden.
This word, * early,' can therefore be sup-
posed to relate only to our new ministen;
and in this case it ouffht to have a codm-
quence which I wish it may, but it is sudb
a one as they, I believe, do not wish to
see. It ought to engage us in an enquiry,
why this was not done by our foraier mi-
nister ; for if it is sudi a wise and SQch t
necessary step in our new ministers, why
was it not thought on ? Why was it DOt
made by our old?
For these reasons. Sir, the sendisg of
our troops to Flanders is a measure which
we ought not to precipitate ourselves into
an approbation of: At least we cannot,!
think, sav to hb majestv that it has been
done earlv. As the afior cannot yet come
properly before us, I shall not dietennioe
mjTself upon either side oi the questioD;
but in the light it appears to me at present,
I cannot think the measure right, and if it
was, I am sure we cannot say, it was earlj
enough undertaken, unless we design oar
Address for our new ministers and not for
our sovereign. This part c^ the proposi-
tion I cannot therefore agree to, ana d»
next is really surprising. To desire this
House to assert positively, that a proper
force could not be formed in Banders
without taking Hanoverians into ourptyi
before we have had any one proof of the
fact laid before us, is really a piece of »"
surance in our new ministers, superior to
any that was ever practised by any of their
predecessors. AVhether we have amoogst
us, now the Blue Ribbon is fled, any one
that is of his majesty's cabinet oouncfl,!
dp not know ; but this, I am sure, is >
fact that cannot be asserted bysnybtit
such as have been for some time there;
and therefore 1 must beg of our mipistcis
not to desire us to assert a &ct which we
neither do nor can laiow any thing about
I think it highly improbably that we oottU
857]
&n the AdAtiS of Thanh.
get no troopt to hire* in all Europe, be*
sides lliese Hanoverians ; and if there were
aoy other troops to be had in Europe,
they m%ht have been mardied into Flan-
ders time enough for any use we can
make of them ; lor it is certain, we cannot
now make use of them, either in Flanders,
or any where dae^ tSL next spring, before
whidi time it is as certain, that troops may
march to Flanders, from the remotest
comer of Europe.
I shall not anticipate the debate. Sir,
«Uier upon our sending our own troops to
Eandersyior upon marching the Iiano-
venaos and Hessians thither ; but I must
observe, that as things appear to me at
present, if we design that our troops should
be of any real service to the queen of
Hungary, we should have sent our own
troops to Hanover, in order to have form-
ed such an armv there, as might have pre-
veoted M. Maiuebois's march to the rdief
of Pirague, or to have drove him and all
his ragamuffins back to his own country ;
for if we had formed a sufficient army in
Hanover, and had been ready to attack
him, or follow him, I believe he would
huibf have ventured to have marched his
army into Bohemia ; and if he had been
for(^ to march back to his own country,
I believe aU the French troops then m
Germany would soon have been at the
mercy of tlie queen of Hungary, and the
Emperor would have been obliged to come
to an accommodation with her, upon such
terms as we had thought fit to propose.
This, Sir, I shall grant, is foreign to the
present debate ; but it is a very j^ood rea-
son for our resolving to say nothmg in our
Address either about sending our own
troops to Flanders, or about marching the
Hanoverians thither. If our ministers are
food of having compliments from this
House upon their measures, I hope they
will stay till those measures are brought
properly before us, and then our compli-
ments will come with a greater, and a
much mor^ desirable weight.
The late turn of afEairs in the north, I
shall allowi Sir, to be happy both to this
kingdom and to Europe ; because it has
disappointed the tools of France in Swe-
den, and may bring some of them to the
block. I wish, I saw some French tools
nearer home brought into the same sort
of danger. But let that turn be as happy
S3 it will, we have no business with con-
patulating his maiesty upfn it^ because it
implies, as if we thought it owmg in some
ttessore to die conduct of our ministers ;
A. D. 174S. [858
whereas it is entirely owmg to the wiadom
of the Russian court, the conduct irf their
generab, and the braverv of thdr troops.
I shall likewise grant. Sir, that the pre*
sent conduct of l£e king of Sardinia is of
mat use to the common cause ; and that
me queen of Hungary has bore up in a
very surprising manner amidst the manjr
difficulties she has been, and still is sur*
rounded with ; but I cannot be so com-
plaisant as to say, that either the conduce
of the king of Sardinia, or the courage of
the queen of Hungary, is owing to the
spirit and vigour our ministers have shewn
in the defence of our allies. I say, I can«
not pass such a compliment, because I do
not think it is true. The conduct of the
king of Sardinia may, indeed, be partly
owing to our money, and the neighoour*
hood of our fleet in the Mediterranean;
but it is chiefly owing to his own interest,
and to the spirit which the queen of Hutt*
gary has shewn in her own defence. And
as to the latter, her bearine up under so
many difficulties is so far trom being Ao
eflect of vigour shewn by our ministers*
that all the difficulties she has been
brought into are owin^ to the conduct of
our late minister;, for if he had made any
one right step upon the death of the late
emperor, I am persuaded, the Frendi
would not have dared to send a man into
Germany, nor would the duke of Bavaria
have dared to attack the queen of Hun-
gary. It is true, our new ministers have
made at least a shew of a little more spirit
and vigour than their predecessor ; but as
yet it IS but a shew, and before they made
even that shew, the queen of ifungBir
was extricated out of her greatest diroufo
ty, by the bravery of her troops, and the
treacherous conduct of the ¥Vendi towardi
the king of Prussia.
I have now. Sir, gone through this long
complicated motion. I say complicatec^
because it is evidently made up of profes*
sions of duty and afllection to nis majesty,
and of compliments to the mmisters upon
their conduct. As to the former part of
it, I shall be for making those professions
as strong and explicit as you please: I
shall even be for enlarging them if it be
desired ; but as to the other part, I think,
we ought never on such an occasion to
pass compliments upon the conduct of our
ministers, and especially such as appear
evidently false. 1 hope I have shewn that
all those desired by tnis motion are such,
or at least highly imnrobable; tli^efore, I
hope, the hon, f^ntieman wUt lenre T
§^j l6sQE0RGB 11.
j^jpufy ^ opatent ,bipaself with;that part
ipf ^18 .n^otioA tv'hich .contaijis our pi'ofes-
Bion^ pf -duty,an4..a&ctioa to his Qiajesty
only.. . ., *,' ' •* .
1 ^i WUUam Y6ngf: r -
Sir; •I-hope.t shall nev/pr be ac^
xused of having opposed a proper ^d 4u-
,tlful return to his niajesty's speech fron?
'the throne : I was always of ppinion,. that
when his ma^qsty is graciously pleased, in
>liis speech to descend to particulai:s, an^
,tfi give us some account of the state of our
jpublic afiairs, we are in duty bound tp
retuim an answer^ of Siome kind or other,
jti . every particular mentioned, in his
.majesty's speech ; and I do not well knpw
. virhat gentlemen mean when they say, this
^js contrary to the custom, of qiir ancestors.
\X ang^ sure. Sir, this method of addressing
*bas been a custom eyer since I canremem-
beir^ and 1 believe it has been th^ custom
jcver since our kinds' have been pleased i,o
.'gtve us any particular' account of our
^afl^rs in their speeches from thethroii^.
This^ it ifi very, well known, was not the
. custom in sclent times ; for in those dap
the king made but a very short speech,
perhaps a. general compliment to the. two
. Houses, and lofl it to his Giancellor to
,descepd to particulars, and to give the
'parliainentan account of the state of pub-
lic affairs^ ^nd the reasons for cdling tliem
* together.
\ . In those times therefore, . Sir, It was
, irlght in both Hpuses to return a. general
^ans.^ver; for they could not with any pro-
'priety take notice, in their address to the
king, of any thing that had been said to
them by the Lord. Chancellor. But it
^ being now the custom, and a most gracious
^'wid respectful custom, I think, it is : 1
say, it being now the custom fo^r the king
^ himself in bis speech from the throne, £o
communicate to us a particular account of
'the state of our affairs, we ought at least
^ be as respectful to him as he is to us ;
and consequently, in our Address, to take
. some notice at least, of eveiy thing he has
been pleased to mention* Kay, as our
. addresses upon such occasions are never
held to be an approbation of any measure
kneniiphed in them, we ought to make
' some sort of compliment, upon every thing
. he ha$ lieen pleased to say, unless the
.'jneasure be evidently wrong, and such as
win 'certainly m^t with a censure, in that
session of jparliainent.
Tl^is j>^Qg the case,* Sir, I think there
\ j^,iyoj5ii§gj,PI'0||j)psed» By- thii liiotion' but
Debeie if^ik^ 6oft{mons,
[SM
^hat may be safely, and I think, oogbt in
duty to be agreed to. We have not, k is
true, as yet had time to consider &]ly
^very particular circumstance in his ma^
jesty^s Speech, and proposed to be iq.
serted in our Address ; bat, iu my opiaioQ,
there is no npeasure mentioned in eitlver,
that appears evidently to be wrong. I am
convinced, that unon a thorough examiaai
tion they will aU appear to be right, aod
will receive the approbation of this Hoq8&
As to our seiiding our troops to Flaoden,
though 1 do not pretend to be in. the secieii
of the cabinet, yet from those ciituo-
stances tliat.were publicly known I must
conclude^ it was not only right but neces<
sary for us to sen^a bouy of our troops to
the continent, in order to shew to thoie
who secretly, perhaps, inclined to enter
into an ^ alliance with us against the am-
bitious projects of France, tiiat we not
only would, tut were jeady to protect
them against the resentmentof that power-
ful and aspinng nation. And if it was ik.
cessary for us to send a body of our troops to
tlie cont(hent|' Flanders was the most pro-
iper glace we could send them to, foraa*
swering this purpose, not only because it
was the most . centrical, but because we
could from thence, with the greatest ease^
carry the war into , France itself, in case
that court should resolve to send any mort
of its troops into Germany, or to attadb
any of those powers that might declare ia
our favour.
This hadaccordingly, Sir, the intendedrf-
fect r it not only prevented the Freach fhn
sending any more troops into Germany, but
it prevented their sending any troops to
the assistance of the Spaniards in Savoy.
Would bur sending our troops to Hanover
have had this, effect ? Could we therebj
havfe drove M. Maillebois back to his own
country? No, Sir, thic French bein^ then
secure against afiy attack uponlheirovD
dominions, if M. Maillebois found he could
not safely march directly'' into Bohemia^
he wbiild have marched up the Rhine to-
wards Alsace, ^nd afler being joined there
by a fresh body of troops, he would have
marched to Bohemia, and thereby have
made that c^unirj the seat of war, whicfc
would have been dangerous for the qneen
of Hungary, "and extremely inconvenient
for us. At the same time, and for the
safn6 reason^ the French would have scot
a body of troops to the assistance of |ic
Spaniards in Savoy, which would Mve
forced thfe kine of Sardinia to desert hii
allianbewitH' the<jueen of ^lupgarj'iWd
513
#n the AdtUeSi of Thanks*
A4 D^ l^A%.
} accept th€f tenns otfe/ed by France and
pain. Besides these disadvant&gies, 'Sir',
lere is another of equal consequence, ,
hich would have attended our sending i
iir troops to Hanover: it would have
imished the king's domestic enemies
rith a pretence for saying, that England
as going to be involved in a war for the
aice oflunover; and this pretence, though
erj ill grounded, might have had a fiitel
ITect upon the minds of our common
teople, and perhaps upon themijads of otir
iOldiers.
From these considerations, Sir, it is ap-
>arcnt, that Flanders was the only proper
>lace we could send our troops f o ; and as
hejr could not by themselves, even after
>eing sentthere, have any great efect upon
he councils of France^-it became necessary
:o increase our force thi^re, by the addition
of foreign troops, hired from some poten-
tate or otiier. Whether we ^oold ^t any
other troops to hire beside those of Ha-
nover, I shidl not take upon me to detei^
mine; but I can see no reason Why we
should not take the IroMsof Hanover into
our pay as soon as any otner; and in the pve-
sent case, they were certainly the most
ready, because they weve nearest, and be-
cause an agreement foi^ taklpg them intoour
pay could be much sooner 'Concluded,' thaii
an agreement for such a purpose ivith Imy
other priace or potentate in Euimpe. In
the circumstances we were then in, the
season for action was not in the least to be
considered. We were ti^'give spirit to
the friends of public liberty : v^ were to
give terror to its enemies, by forming a
great army in Flanders ; and this was to be
done as soon as possible.
Thisy Sir, was to be his majesty's 'care :
it is diia we are to declare our grateful
sense of; and this care his majesty took
as early as the circuinstances of the afiiairs
of Europe would admit. We need not
therefore be at a loss to find out what the
word * early' relates to. It neither re-
lates to theivar, nor to our new ministers:
it relates only to that tiim the affiiirs-of
Europe took by the peace concluded be-
tween the courts of Vienna and Berhn.
Whilst the court of Vienna continued ob-
ttinate with regard to the king of Prustoa:
whilst that prince continued firm to his al-
liance with Fntnoe and Bavaria^ we could
Dot so much as think of giving any assist*
aacebyour armiestothequeen of Hungary,
orof fom^ng any confederacy in her fiivour ;
but no sooner cud thb becoifoe practicable
\y these two couhs begmiiiog to pve ear.
[86ff
to our'mitfdiadon; than his majesty begiifi
to diink of formitig' such a mrce-in the
Low Countrieif, as might be of serviee to
the queen' of Hungm-y, atid to the restoring
and securing the balance of power la
Europe.
Now, Sir, with regatd to the happy
turn of af&irs in the north, as it is and
must be acknowledged to be a happy turn
with regard to Eutope as well as this
kingdom, we have reason- to- ccmgcatvlate
his majesty upon it, whether he had atiy
hand m bringing it abwit or no'; and
thel^fb^e our congrtitiilati6n can be n6
hnpllcatioai'ofourthmkihg that he'«et«»
al^ had. Butsup^^e-it were, I shotilt
be for agreeing to it, because, I am^'ooii^
viiicad, it is true 9 aild'fr6m^the.veiy na-
ture of the things Wtmlsi belteve It to6k
so« His majesty liad: ft'mfiiister ttl> tM
Swedish court: h« had another at thft
Russian ; can we thixikt thai those minis-
ters had «iot imtrubtiioftsto laboar' widi
an ^elr ml^ to bring about a reoonel*
lii^tion^between ti«08e>4mro powers I I shUll
grants that* the wisdoiA of the Itudriaft
couacils, the oofldoct of 'theh^ geli€fndi^
and 'the bravery of theiir troops, ooMtri-
' baled not a little towards rendering ^lib
mi^^sty's endeavours' sucywfult tut «eai>
we suppose^ that the kitig and senate
of Swiitn would pnUtdy hi^ foado a tfh
r'sition of his major's good ofBees, <if
y had not before iiand been infornied,
not •only that 'his majesty was ready •to
employ bis good offices in their iavouf,
but also that^his good offices would haVI^
greitt -weight at the Russian court f I
wonder how any -gentleman can do«ibt of
thisv and I much more wonder how any
'gentleroaA f)an object to our congrata^
ladng him upon an events which he him^
self allows to be happy for. thjs kingdom
as w^ll fas. for Europe. : • f ' *
As to the conduct of thekiii^ of <fitau«-
dinia,' it is- so evidendy owinf^ to .the eis>
gagements his majesty *hod tfntei^ iatd
with, diat prince; and to the vigbrbus cobw
duct of our. squadron ki 'the' Meditenra-
neaa, * that . I am isuvprised (to heit' thaft
part of the Motion ohjectied^to ; and as
.to the oourage'oi*. resolution . of the queea
of Hungary,. Irshsil grant itr'^vas' so^
prisingly great, even before we tiboaght,
or coda think of sendrng^aDy troops' to
her assistanoe*;! lopt though I would avoid
as much as polaiUe, saying any thing that
might. look likeJa rdiectidn i^n. that
. illustrious . prihcen^ /yet 1 must say,
her Gondact lotkiregacdi tp. ftamn
«6S] 16 GEORGE IL
to becilled obalinacjr niUier than counge
andxesoiutioB ; for if abe had oontinued
to hold the lame conduct with re^rd to
hiony it would have been impotable for
her to extricate heraelf out of her diffi-
culties: it would have been impotsible for
US, or for amr power in Europe, to have
g'ven her effectual anistance : but since
sr concluding a treaty with that prince,
hj means of his majesty's mediation, her
bearing up against the united armies of
France and Bavaria, may properly be call-
od courage or resolution ; and tms is cer-
tainly owing to the vigorous measures his
inaJMty be^m to take upon her enter-
ing heartily into a treaty with the king of
Prussia.
Thus, Sir, I hope I have shewn, that
4here is no real foundaticm for objecting
.to aovpart of the motion now before you ;
and that it would be a want of respect in
us, not to take some sort of notice, in our
Address, of every thing his majesty has
Jbeen pleased to communicate to us by his
Speech from Uie throne. This, I hope,
jrOtt will avoid beinf guilty ioti if you con-
.aUer the present cnrcumstances of a&irs,
I «Bi sjire, yott will avoid it with the
Ulmost cautiOBu Europe engaged in a
•war which may end in the overthrow of
its liberty : this nation engaged in a war
vAach may end in the ruin of our trade
and navigation: in these circumstances
would j^du do any thing, would you neglect
any thing, that might be construed as a
want of renect to your sovereign? Would
not this disoearten our friend^ would it
not encourage our enemies i What terri-
ide consequences should we not then have
rasaon to expect ? I must therefore be-
•eech gentlemen not to give themselves
«p to cavilling upon this occasion* If they
think any part of our late conduct wrong,
there is noUiing now proposed that can
inefent their oensurins it when it comes
properiy before them. Why, then, should
they object to the most respectful Ad-
dress that can be thought of upon this
occasion, when they must be sensible,
tiiat the more respectful it is, the more
unanimously it is agreed to, the greater
and the better effisct it will have upon
r afiirs both abroad and at home?
Debate in the C<nnmons
[864
Mixjor Seho^ :
Sir; 1 rise not up to enter minute-
ly into the purport of what is now moved
and aecondod, an undertaking. Sir, rather
^ delicatafor one whose retirement from
thMrtmay^bodfeiBed a misfortune.
and I look upon it as such, beesDEe of
that laudable spirit which was {requeoUy
exerted in the last parliament, mad be-
yond what I ever knew, during the time
I formerly sat here. God be thanked,
Sir, I have seen it Bffam revived, without
the least innovation m our parliamentary
constitution.
In that light I look upon the motioo
now before you. Sir, with respect to the
form of this Address. But alas, Sir, food
as we are of modem precedents, yet it
were to be wished that such of them, and
such only had been followed, as were most
conducive to the honour and dignity of
parliaments. The amiable precedents left
us by our most worthy ancestors, are the
strongest instances, that they in their
greatest exigencies of state, lud Dothlojj:
so much at heart as to gain the good opi-
nion of all mankind; imd this they ha^
pily effected, because their conduct in
thjs place so justljr deserved it As the?
were always apprised, that honour co&sisa
not in the power only of any sssemblr
whatsoever, but in the opink>n the people
have of their virtue ; a principle stridj
honourable, exalting the mind above hopes
and fears, above &vour and displeasure,
because uniform and consistent withitielf;
their addresses were dutifiil, though short,
yet suitable to the time they wereslloved
to sit, where in struggling hard for tbe
liberties, of the people, &ey somedoei
lost their own, and some their lives for
only daring to be free. Thus gloried
they in a true public spirit, and had the
comfort to say, ** Temporibns malis aos
sumus esse boni f* therefore, their names
and memories are still revered, and so they
ought to be in all fiitinre ages. Vxs
never held a long Address crmnmed vim
a volubility of compliments, as essentia to
loyalty ; no, th^ said loyalty wdl became
the dignity of tbdr House, but ss for all
fawning comnlatsance, that they properir
confined witnin the boimdaries ot tbe
Court of Requests, and would not so mud
as suffer it to insinuate, nbnor yet to creep
up the lobby-etairs.
Sir, upon my observation of this Hoote,
I am thorouguy convinced, thst diere is
not one of us, but must diink it reqiiis^^
to support the honour of the king, the ho-
nour of the nation, and his own hoDoor:
which having all but one and the sane
natund centre, we cannot avoid being
unanimous in Uie most ^ssoitial prooftof
our loyalty, by mving true and frithiol
advicoi aa tho fiuttAd Coaamm of Gitit
a65]
on the Addr^s hf ThaMs.
A. D. 1742.
I86e
Britaioy pinfuant to the tenor of' the writ
duu calls us here* * '
Sir» 1 have bat one objectioD to the form
of thb Address, which is its length, and I
cannot see whjr 8 compodtion m so many
dutiful expressions should not stand by
themselves^ by way of congiatulation only,
without a promise or grant of supplies m
the tail of it. Thus the motion stands at
present and this I cannot think right ; be*
cause in our critical situation to resolve
precipitateiy upon a sopplv, although in
^eral terms, i think is dangerous and
nnmetbodicaL Such a resolution would
be much more proper for the work of ano-
ther day, when it might be attended to
widi a more mature deliberation. I know
it hath been often urged in this place,
that a resolution taken and agreed upon
the 6iBt day of a session, for a supply, as a
part of our Address, is a mere matter of
form only; but. Sir, I have sat long
enough within these walls to have seen
forms and fieures too, most essentially
misapplied. It is, therefore, to obviate
such inconveniences as may asain arise by
this modem practice, that I £all take the
ISttetij to ena what I have yet to sav, with
amotion; for I shall never be ror this
House coming precipitately to any resolu-
tion with regara to supplies, notwithstand-
bg my being one of those that shall never
think our lives or fortunes too much for
the support of this state : a state that can
never oe too fond of its freedom and civil
rights, which our neighbours have long
aoce lost by their own meanness and cor-
niption, holding their all in vassalage and
base tenure.
Sir, I have read that Constantino the
Great aocountefl the purse of his subjects
as his exchequer: but we may justly fix
the exchequer of our sovereign in a more
noble situation, even in the hearts of his
subjects; and why? Because he has
always found his paternal care and main-
tenance of our ancient rights and liberties
to be the surest basis of his glory : a glory
doubtless it is, to be at the head of a brave
and a free people: brave because we are
fiee : people may be desperate and irra-
tional ; but none can be truly brave, unless
they are firee. Our people pay their taxes
ana imposts witli all that cheerfulness and
alacrity that becometh dutiful subjects,
not doubting of their money being well
^licd, and doubting still less of their
wing an account of its appropriation ;
for bdieve me. Sir, in all cases of public
oqniry, a &ir and candid reckoning with
[V0L.X11.]
the people, will be the surest means for
making their allegiance still to sit tig^t
about them. Crafty inventions may pick
the purse of the people; hut nothing can
legally and fairly open it, but a parliament
which lets in the eye of sovereignty upon
all the public calamities of the state, and
shews a becoming vigilance for the preser-
vation of our ancient rights and privileges,
which I must beg leave to say were always
a little precarious, and never so totauy
established aa imonr the arrival of the pre-
sent royal fiunuy. Since then it is but
natural to preserve the root of our imme-
diate happiness, how can we enough ad-
mire the glorious branches, nay even ^e
tenderest twigs, which with the blessing
of Providence, and our hearty prayers for
them, must grow into so beautiml a shadi^
by nature formed to shelter and protect
you from the violence, oppression and ar-
bitrary power which neither we nor our
fore&thers were ever able to befir.
However, let us enjoy the more imme-
diate prospect of such halcyon days as we
may reasonid)ly expect from the conduct
of the present administration, and espe-
cially too if we conaider. Sir, how much'
the change of men and measures hath
already wrought a happier change in the
face of afiairs upon the continent, where
the distresses of a great princess have pre-'
vailed upon you to undertake her moving
cause; so that I cannot help flattering
myself, that this administration wifi not so
strictly follow the tract of their predecev-^
sors : thouffh one cannot recollect or ^
any period of time when this nation^ever
was tne object of the care of our ministers
in the first instance^ as it ought ahrmya to-
have been ; or that even after the Reviriu-
tion, there ever was a contest among them^
which should out-do theother in acts of re-
sentment for injuries done to this their
mother country.
Surely, Sir, if that had been the case,
you had not heavd of so many pernicious
treaties formed ainroad, no, nor yet tf so
many late scandalous contracts at home^ ta
the detriment of our friends, fellow-soldiers
and countrymen. Nevertheless, whatso-
ever may have been otherwise suggested
by some without doors, yet it is to be
hoped, that time will convince them too,
that it was nnpractioable to corrupt the
fountain, or to strip the third estate of ita
freedom and independency; and that it
cannot be thought a crime for the presenft
pariiament to bear some resemblance of
such as were once the glory of this aatioas
. [SK]
867]
16 Gi^paGS n.
JDetoe jn li# CbmNmt
ii^ as io4«y eiideiM^y it the gpreafceit eiMifart
that can attend the iodSvidiiel, ao it never
oeoten in ibe body politicy bul it imine-
di»tely becemei a netiooal benefit, «id in
leturn veu will alirqfa be vewarded wkfa
the applaufie of tbe people, to wboni^ in*
deed, you owe noinuiU regard : for siirdy.
Sir, it was high tame to sliutdoae Pandocn'a
bejL, at the cloae of the last sesMon, or
auch a copaplication of distempers as were
therein oontaioed, miist have laftcted the
veiy air we hrealhc^ wit^ their inftmal
vapours; and although I cannot allow thai,
< Terras Astnea reUquit,' is applicable to
ns, yet 1 could never hear or rted of aqr
sovemment wlMtaoever, that had for a
feng series of time been suppoffted bM cor-
ruption, but a saying of my friend Homoe
alw^ife occurred to my mind,
^ O oEvss, cifss, ^uoaeuoa |>aeiniia ptimum
•Viitnspist
Yet to prevent such disasters as may
hefeaiker happen again to a£fect our state,
whv should we not revert to that ancient
and laudable practice of our ancestors, in
letting grievaaeea and supplies go hand in
band together, and like diem too, always
take care to begin right, with a dutifol and
short Addrem} Therefore my humble mo*
tion is, That this Addiem may consist of
I only.
Sir John Barnard :
Sir; as I shall, I believe, give vay
vote lor the Addrem proposed, I think it
incumbent upon me to give the reasons
whidi prevail wid^ me to do ao, because
they are very cUSBtent from those that
have been insisted on by most gendemen
who have spohe in fiarour of tho motion^
It is no(, SiTi becauae I now begin to im-
prove of our making compliments to our
ministera upon every part of their conduct,
before we have examined, or know any
think about it : itisnotbecaoselapprove
of every step that has been latdy tal^, or
heoiuse I mink the happy duinge in the
tee of the afibiri of Europe is owing to
the spirit or conduct of our ministers t but
it IB because of the extreme danger to
which I thiiA the liberties of Europe as
yet exposed, and the necessity there is for
this nation to act with the utmost, spirit
•nd viaour, in order to extricate Europe
from that danger; therefore I shall be
S{^(ainit our oippostng this new adnnnistnp
Jmn in any thing we can saWy agree to,
last It shouidfiimidi them with apretence
ftr ftBowiog tli^ example of their prede-
I wishttey had beanaSttlsiim
modest in the m<4k>nihey have no* mads
to us: IwiAthey hadsbewnalitUeioore
regard to what sooie of them hare a> oftea
rscommended upon the Uka eoeaakms;
because it would have been a tssliBony to
the people, that they base not chafed
their sentiments with their aitustioa; and
that their fimner opposition te meh ad*
dresses proceeded mm prindiile, and not
from their having no share in dnwiog
them up. Such a conduct woiid bm
convinced the people without doon, tfast
we within hate abrays acted from notiiti
of a generous and public natnie, andsst
from compt or selfish motives, eitkr
upon one side or the other; fiBr,inmyopi«
mon, there is veiy little diiEMrencabetnen
a gentleman's voting always with the
court, for the sake of a pension or pscs*
niary gratuity, and another's votiar sm^,
agamst it, fiir the sake merely dThtmg
hunaelfintotlmadministiatioo: IhskHsr
may have more pride or ambition thsa die.
former, but Uienr motivea are eqnslfys»
nipt, and when discovered, equailf tondto
overthrow our constitution, by dsskWTiDf
that* principle of action, I men a dv*
interested love fbr the piddic good, opon
whidi alone a free ggvMnment can «d)*
For this reason. Sir, I must desipinQlf
with our new ministers by tellii^ thaa^
timt, so far as relates to our domestic af-
fiursyif they goon as they have began, tfaej
wiU do more rsal harm to our constitotios
than our late minister ever did, with di
his schemes, fbr comi^oii and arbitmj
power; because they will make the peoph
nelieve^ that our contention here never
was, nor ever will be, about the prsaem^
tioQ of our constitution, or tile poblic
good of our country, but abemt titki,
places, pensions, and prefisrments; sod if
this opinion should ever pjovail gcasnDf
among the people, they w31 give overaip*
fKirting any opposition to the admiiiiitci-
tion fiddle time being: nay they wili it*
joice to see pariiaments entirely bidsiiiifr
I shaO grant. Sir, that wiA regard ts
fereign afflurs, our conduct seems to bet
little altered : our new ministers seem to
act with more viffour, and to liiewslittis
SBore regard to no preservation of the ii<
berties ^Europe, than their predeoeaos
ever did; hut I question mudi if this be
owing to their virtue or public spirit, ee
much as to tibeir compfausance toeardsthe
crown. The late haudi^ and insoltiBg
behavipur of the FeaDc£ toirards a oeittti
8801
Off d» ;^iM«ft (f nOJliii
AsjKint
[870
bit, I befieve» .
^^leradoB in the politkt df thai ooiirt, and
tluu dteratioB may probiUir he? e had an
mfluence upon oar eoort here at home.
Ths allenttKm, I thdl readily admit, k
haAj f&e Great Britain aa well aa Europe ;
bnauneit ob^get our miniateri, or at leaat
.leatvea them at liberty, to puriue tlie tr«e
intereit of both; but I cannot easily ad-
mit, that this change in our measures pro-
oeedsftom the late diahge in ouradmmis-
tmtioQ, fiar the extreme oomplanance oar
netr miniaten have shewn to the crown,
with regard to domestic aibin, eonrinces
me, that thqr wcniU have shewn the same
eooplaisance with regaid to foreign a&ivB,
and wwdd have been aa ready to haTe sa-
crificed the liberties of Eoitipe, as they
now seem ready to sacrifice the liberties of
tfaeir cmmtxy to a wrong bias in the crown,
had it mihappily taken audi a bias. But,
thank God! it has taken a riaht bias, at
least with legard to fore^ affiurs ; and as
fortune seems to favour that bias, I hope
our minislers will make die best ase of it :
1 cm aore, I shall be against otnr tefiismg
m&y thing we can with safety coinply with,
tfasrt may tend to encoofage them in the
proaecation of those aieasuies they now
aeem leaolved to pwsuet and as the Ad-
drcas proposed is dlowed on all sidea to be
nothiiiff Mt a matter of mere oempUment ;
aa it ctoea not tie us down to approve of
any meaanre that has been oencerted, if
ttpmi a proper examination we should see
good reason to find fimlt with it, thevefora,
aiace it has been aiked, I shall be for com-
ptying widi it.
Bat my compttBifce in tids reqi^eet does
not proceed fWmi my approving of oor
makmg panegyrics npoa everr part of oar
mini^tent* conduct, m oor Aodress to oor
eovereign ; and if this molt be the conse-
quence of his being so gracious aa to com-
municate to us, from bis own moolh, afiill
ctate of ear aibirs, and all the particulars
of his post conduct so fitr as his. ministers
may tMak proper, I wish, this piece of
condescension were laid stride; mt I can
see no reason why this complaisance in us
should be a necessary consequence of sudi
a gracioos condescension in our sovereign :
Bor is it true, tiiat this eom^isance and
coadeMdnsissi were at the same time in-
trodaced; for hi former times, espedaHy
the Migns of king James and king
in
Charley the ipeaches mm the throne were
aoocfa longer and n&or^ ^nleottr than
fhey ars at praaeut, and yet in those days
die parUamoat nover thotf|hr itMf.boutfd
alona addrem, nor didfbcym
take notice of any thing men*
their address!
tioned in the speech ; beeauae thobj^ it
was made by the king, the^ looked opoa
it aa the speech of the minisler, and very
oAeo, the firaft notice they took of it was,
after due oonsideratioB, to remoastrale
againat several tlnaga contained in it.
Whether we may hate occasioa to re«
monstrate against any of the measorsa
mentioned in thia 8|)eech, la what camsot
now, nor evda in tnia session, I think, be
determined. If a proper aae be made of
the forcea sent from hc»ce^ and from Ha-
nover to Flaadera, I hope, we shall not.
It wSB give fixreign powers some reason to
think, viat we are now oncerely reached
to aaaist the queen of Hungary, to the ot-
flsoat itf our fiower, and tins, I think, we
ou^t to do, if we give her any aaiiataneo
ataQ. This may eneourage acme of them
to shako off Aoae shacklea of ftar, the^
seem dow to have upon them ; and conn-
daring enr condact lor asany years, I think,
hwim become necessary to ^ive aome
spofdy and solid nroof of our smoeriity in
ia» respect. I sbaB not therefore pie£end
to find iaultwidi oor sending abodyof
oor troops to Flandera^ tfll I seeiriiatnse
is made df them. I hope^ those who ad-
Yised putting their country to such aa ex-
pence, were well assured of its beiw in
their power to mdke a proper use or the
troops we have sent thither, beforO they
advised aendiagtiMBi. If it shouU after-
'wahb appear, ttiat they had no audi aasur-
aace: If it should hereafter appear, that
tiiia army has been sent out, aa oorafoa-
drone have fi>rmerly been, only aa a raree-
ahew for oor neighboorstostareat, I must
now enter mj protestation, that my ap-
proving of this Addrem shall be no argu-
asetit wifli me to approve of the measave.
As for the Hanover troope. Sir, we have
aa tret no reason to suppose, that they are
to be taken into British par. The elee-
torate of Hanover is as much obliged, both
in htooar and interest, as we are, to sup-
Eand assist the queen of Hungary} at
we Imow as yet of no advantage it is
tb reitp by her destruction; and as no ad-
dition has upon tins accoui^ been made to
the taniei of that electorate, we nsust sap-
pose it soffidentiy aUe to maintain those
troops in Fbndera, or aay where else, as
well as at home. The people there have
been krieeiy relieved from some of their
most burdensome taxes, #hich is a nJea-
sure sood ah advantage the people or this
ooiuitry hard never yet met with; theio*
Mr)
16 GBQRQH II.
^•Od)att «» the Ltrdt
m
iTfuhyfltynif
.ipjielf to return to tff ««ctf
waj other than genenu apMfe
Lord Carteret ••
My lords; as therehas ariten &o
new question, as his majesty^ io assisting
.'the queen of Hun^y, has only fbUowea
• the advice of parliament; I am far from
.being aUe to discover, why any long ddi-
. beration diould be necessary to a concur-
. Knee with the motion now before as, or
whence any doubt can arise with regard
to the effects of his majesty's measures ;
.e&cts which no man will deny, who will
believe either his own eyes, or the testi-
mony of others ; effects which every man
who surveys the state of Europe must
perceive, and which our friends and our
enemies will equally confess.
To these measures, which we are now
to consider, it must be ascribed, that the
French are no longer lords of Germanv ;
that the^ no longer hold the princes of the
empire uv subjection, lay provinces waste
At pleasure, and sell their friend&hip on
.their own terms. By these measures liave
the Dutch been dehvered from their ter-
rors, and encouraged to deliberate freely
upon the state of Europe, and prepare for
the support of the Pragmatic Sanction.
But the common cause has been most
evidently advanced by gaining the king of
. Prussia, by whose defection the balance
. of the war was turned, and at least 30,000
m»n taken away from the scale of France.
This, my lofds, was a change only to
, be effected by a patient expectation of op-
portunities, and a politic improvement of
casual advanta^, and by contriving me-
thods of reconciling the interest of Prussia
^with the friendship of the queen of Hun-
gaiy ; for princes, like other men, are in-
clined to prefer their own interest to all
other motives, and to follow that scheme
which shall promise most gain.
That all this, my lords, has been effected,
i cannot be denied ; nor can it be said to
.have been effected by any other causes
. than Uie conduct of Great Britain : had
this nation looked either with cowardly
dei^Mur, or ne^gent inactivity, on the
jrising power of France and the troubles of
the continent ; had the distribution of em-
pire been left to chance, our thoughts
• confined wholly to commerce, and our
I prospects not extended beyond our own
« island; the liberties of Europe had been
,^. an end, tb^ French had establbhed
.themselves in the secure possession of
.^universal mpnai^y;, would henceforth
have set mankind at de6ance,aadwsrtotted
without fear in opprenion and inioknce.
Th«M, my lords, are conseque&cet of
the measures pursued by his majestj, of
irfuch neither the reality nor the import-
ance can be ouestioned^ and therefore
the^ may doubtless be approved vi^out
hesitation. For surely, my lords, ti)e ad-
dition of the Hanoverian troops to the
forces of our own nation cto raise no
scruples, nor be represented as zfiy viola-
tion of the Act of Settlement
or the meaning of that memor^Ie act,
I believe, I do not need any informatioD.
I know it is provided, that this nation sbaD
not be engaged in war in the quarrel of
Hanover; but I see no traces of a recipro-
cal obligation, nor can discover an? clause,
by whid) we are forbidden to make useio
our own cause of the alliance of Hanorer,
or by which the Hanoverians are forbiddeo
to assist us.
I hope, my lords, this representatioo (i
the state of our transactions with Haoorer,
will not be charged with artifice or »•
phistry. I know how invidious a task a
undertaken by him who attempts to shev
any connection between interests so geiM-
rally thought opposite, and am supported
in this apology only by the ccmsciousnesi
of integrity, and the intrepidity of trutlu
The assistance of Hanover, my lords,
was at this time apparently necesraiy.
Our own troops, joined with the HessiaoS)
composed a body too small to make anj
efficacious opposition to the designs of
France; but Dy the addition of 16,000
men, became sufficiently formidable to ob-
lige her to employ those troops for the
security of her frontiers, with which she
intended to have overwhelmed Italy, and
to have exalted another Spanish prince to
a new kingdom. The Spaniards, deprived
of this assistance, harassed by the Austnans
with perpetual alarms, and debarred bf
our fleet from the supplies which are pro-
vided for them in their own country, mi^
languish with penury and hardships, being
equally cut off from succour aiad from
flight. ^ ^
Thus, my lords, it is evident, that the
true and everlasting interest of Great
Britain has been steadily pursued; that
the measures formed to promote it ha^
been not only prudent, but successnJ-
We did not engage sooner in the quarrel,
because we were not able to form au anny
sufficiently powerfiiL An advantageoui
peace is only to be obtained by vigorous
preparations for war; nor is it to be ex-
*9J
on the Addrea ^ Thauku
A. D. 1742.
[850
•ected that our eneinies should court our
riendship, till thejsee that oi^r opposition
! really formidable. Such, my lords, is
>ur present state; we ma^ reasondlil^
ope that the French will desist from, their
lesijpia, because they will have a confede-
acy to oppose, more powerful than that
ly which their immortal monarch was
Btely humbled ; and I hope that conduct
riJl always he applauded In this House,
rhich enables us to repress the arrogance
f France*
The Earl of WukuMrOand :
My lords ; though the warmth with
rhich the noble lord has defended the
aotion, and the confidence with which
le asserts the propriety and efficacy of
he measures to which it relates, are such
»roofi of the strength of his conviction as
eave no room to doubt his smcerity ; yet
ts the tame arguments do not operate
ipoo different mmds with the same force,
hope I shall not be thought less sincere,
)r less studious of the pubnc happiness, or
he honour of the crown, thou^ I pre-
nme to differ from him.
In the motion now before us, 1 cannot
loncur, because, Uiough it should be d-
owed to contam a just representation of
breign a&irs, yet it appears to me to
»nut those considerations which I think it
he duty of this House to offer to his
oajesty. This nation is» in my opinion,
xposed to enemies more formidable than
he French ; nor do I think that we are at
eisure to defend the liberties >of Europe,
ill we have made some provisions for the
ecurity of our own ; or to regulate the
olance of power, till we have restored
nr institution to its ancient equilibrium.
T^t there are flagrant proofs of the
aost enormous corruption throughout the
rhole subordination of public offices; that
ur public funds are only nurseries of
raud, and that trust of every kind is only
ionsideredas an opportunity of plunder-
ag, i^pears evidently from the universal
rrevaience of luxury and extravagance,
rom the sadden affluence of private men,
rcHn the wanton riot of their tables, the
egal splendour of their equipages, and the
•tentatious magnificence of their build-
It is evident likewise, that corruption is
lot confined to public offices ; that those
irho have lost their ewn integrity, have
ndeavoured to destroy the virtue or others; \
hat attempts have been made to atibject
be whole nation to the influence of cor-
ruption, and to spread the contagion of
bribery from the highest to the lowest
classes of the people.
It is therefore necessary before we en-
gage in the consideration of foreign af-
fairs, to prosecute the enquiry which was
begun in the last session, to trace wick-
edness to its source, and drag the authors
of our miseries into the Ught.
These, my lords, are the enquiries
which the general voice of the people im-
^rtunately demands ; these are the peti-
tions which ought never to be rejected ;
all parties are now united, and all animo-
sities extinguished; nor is there any
other clamour than for enquiries from par-
liament* .
The other House, my lords, has b^n
engaged m the laudable attempt to detect
those who have betrayed or plundered,
or corrupted, their country; and surely
we ought to have so much regard to our
own honour, as not to suffer them to toil
alone in a design so popular, so just, and
so necessary, while we amuse ourselves,
with applauding the sagacity of our minis-
ters, who, whatever they may hope them-
selves, or promise others, have not yet
prevailed on any foreign power to concur
with them, or to interpose in the af&irt
of the continent, And therefore I can-
not conceal my suspicion, that instead of
furnishing any subject for panegyrics on
our policy and caution, we are now wast-
ing our treasures, and our strength jn a
romantic expedition.
Since therefore, my lords, our domes-
tic evils seem to me most dangerous, I
move that in order to their speedy remedy,
and that the people may see we do not
forget their immediate interest, this Ad-
dition be made to the Motion now be-
fore US!
<< And humbly to assure his majesty,
that we will apply our constant and per-
severing endeavours to calm and heal
animosities and ^visions, unseasonable as
they are at all times, and most pernicious
in the present juncture, which the true
&therly tenderness of his niajesty, out of
the abundance of his constant care for the
ridlits and liberties of his people, has so
a&ctionately at the dose of last session
recommended from the throne, by search-
ing thoroughly and effectually into tht
crounds, wnich are or may b!e assigned
for public discontent, agreeably to tHer
ancient rules and metliods of parliament.*'
This additional clause being delivered
in writing to the Lord Chancellor, he read
[3 1]
851]
16 GEORG^ U.
The Kin^i Answer.
[ass
it to the House, but said that his lord-'
ship spoke so low, that he could not tell
where he proposed to have it inserted.
The earl oi Westmoreland then direct-
ed him to read the motion, which done,
he desired that his clause might be added
at the end.
Lord Raymond :
My lords ; the Addition which the
noble lord has offered to the Address pro-
posed, cannot, in my opinion, be properly
admitted, as it has i\6 relation to the pre-
^ cedins clauses, but is rather inconsistent
with mem. Nor do I think it only ilti-
proper with regard to tlie other part of
the motion, but unnecessary in itself;
' since it has no reference to his majesty's
speech, now under our consideration ;
smce it will facilitate none of our enqui-
ries, which may be carried on with equal
vigour without any such unseasonable de-
claration of our design. If, therefore, the
motion for the amendment be not with-
drawn, I shall move that tlie first question
be first put.
The question was then put upon the
marquis of Tweedale's motion, and it
passed in the affirmative, without any
division.
The Lords* Address of Thanks.^ The
Address was as follows :
" Most Gracious Sovereign,
•« We, your majesty's most dutiful and
' loyal subjects, the lords spiritual and
temporal in parliament assembled, beg
leave to return your majesty our sincere
and humble Thanks for your most gra-
cjous Speech from the throne.
*' The support of the House of Austria,
and the restoringand securing the balance
of power, are of so great moment, as well
to the essential interests of this nation jn
particular, as to the liberties of Europe
Di general, that we esteem it our peculiar
felicity, in this critical and dangerous con-
juncture, to have a prince upon the throne,
who not only shews the most gracious
cegavd to the advice of his parliament
upon this important subject, but takes all
opportunities to confirm and animate them
m the pursuit of it. We acknowledge,
with hearts full of gratitude, your majes-
ty's royal wisdom and effectual care in
carrying on this great work, which has
appear^ in notliing more than in sending
80 considerable a body of your forces into
the Low Countries," and in strengthening
Uiem afterwards with your electoral troops.
and the Hessians in the BritUB pay. Bj
this step, so honourable to your majesty,
and so advantageous to your allies, your
majesty has demonstrated that you prefer
this glorious cause to all other considera-
tions, and have formed such an army, as
may at once defend and encour^e those
powers who are well intentioned, and give
a real assistance to the queen of Hungary ;
and we beg leave to assure your majesty
of our cheerful and zealous concurrence
and support in this necessary measure.
*<The good efiects* which the vigoiir
exerted by Great Britain, under your raa-
j'esty^s authority and influence, in assist-
mg its ancient allies, and maintainiiig the
liberties of Europe, hath already had upon
the a&irs cf the queen of Hungary, opon
the conduct of several powers, and the
state of Europe in general, are Yis3»Ie to
all the world. It is witli the utmost satis-
faction we observe them; and relj on
your majesty's known care and atterooa
to the public welfare, to pursue and im-
prove them ; and we cannot but entertaia
well-grounded hopes, that so great an ex-
ample, and a steady perseverance in the
same measures, will inspire tiie E%e apiril
and resolution into other powers, equally
engaged by treaties and common interest,
to take the like part. '
<«Your majest]^ has laid before as so
just a representation of the impoctance of
our deliberation at this time, as caanoc
fail to make an impression upon all true
lovers of their country, equal to the d^ni-
ty and weight of if. Permit ua on oor
parts, to give your majesty the strongest
assurances tliat we have the honour and
safety of your majesty, the true inter»l
and prosperity of your kingdoms, ths
secunty and advancement of their com-
merce; the success of the war against
Spain, and the re-establishment (^ .the
balance and tranqufllity of Europe, eotfrely
at heart. These shall be the constant
objects of our proceedings and resolutions,
from which we will never depart ; being
firmly determined to support your majesty
in all just and necessary measures for at*
taining those great and desirable ends,
and to stand by and defend your ma-
jesty, and your government, against aH
your enemies.*'
The Kin^s Ansioer.l His majesty re-
turned this Atiswet* i
*'My Lords,
*«Thie duty and aflfection,* n^idiyoo
express in tnis Address^ &r my persoa
>3j Debate in th^ C<mm»9t\ 9ft the Address of TTuinks. A» D« 1742.
[854
ad goxppimenU arc^^^Cf i^pafi^ed with sp,
re^ zeal^r t;^e.c9ma^QQ.gai^e9 and the
ue intei'e9( otmy kUKgdoin9^.&& gives me
ic utmost ^ AatlsfactioD. I ] thanjc . you
eartily fay ft; and doubt not hiit yon/
igorous ^uwoj^t, so early and unahiinous-
r glyep, wul have the oest effects, both
t home and ^oad.'^ t
Debate in the Cofnmons on the Address
f Tfianks.^ ^ The' Commons being re-
imed to their House, .
Lord Hartii2gton rose and moved.
That an humple Address hp^ presented
) his majesty, to xeturn his majesty the
'hanks of Uus House for his most gracious
ipeech from the. throne ; to ,express^ our
reat satisfaction at ihe constant attentlod
U majesty "ha^ been /ejraciously pleased to
ive to the advice of his parliament ; and
) assure his niajesty, jthat, as we t^ink the
jpport of the IJo\ise*of Austria, iand the
estoriug and securing the balance of
ower in Europe, are inseparable from the
rue interest of th^e kingdoms, we have a
rateful sense of the. early care his majesty
9ok in forming i§uch a force, in the Low
lountries, 9S| might be of service to those
reat and desi^Ie ends; .which, we are
atisfied, could pot, at that time, have been
D readily and effectually done, as by hb
lajestyfs sepdiiig a body, of his. elecforal
•oops, together with the Hessians, to join
le British and Austrian forces iu those
arts ; and that this Housia wilj cheerfully
nd eflTectually support his majesty in aU
uch necessary measures $ to congratulate
18 majesty on the happy turn of affairs in
ie North ; and. to qeqlaVe, that we are
illj^ convinced, that it is* owipg to the
sirit and, vigour,, which his majesty has
icwn in the defence ofhi^'^llies, that the
ing of Sardinia h^s been enabled to act a
art so useful to the common cause, and
lat the queen of Hungary has be^n en-
Duragcd to bear up amidsl extreme diffi-
oltiesy and notwithstanding the numerous
Qcmies sent against hef; to assure his
lajesty that this House will grant to his
lajesty such supplies, as shall be found
eccssary for perfecting the great work in
hich he is, engaged, for j>rdsecu ting with
igour the just and necessary war yirith
pain, and for paintaining the honour and
2curity of his majesty arid his kingdqmi3 ;
nd that in all our deliberations we will en-
eavour to make uianifcst to the world,
lat we have nothih^ so'ri^uch at heart as
le honour of his miajesty^ the support of
is govemtnent, and the U'ue interest ^f
is crown Had kingdoms:**-* - " ' *
This motion ()eiog seconded, a debate,
eiisued,* in which several members ob-
jected to t|ie same, as inaplying too hast^
an approbation of the meiasures of die mi-
nistry.
Sir Watkin Williams Wynn spoke as
follows:
Mr. Speaker ; what happened to*
wards the end of last session, gave me a
strong suspicion, that our new ministers
would not only tread the steps of the old,
but would endeavour to improve ew^xy^
bad precedent introduced by any of their'
predecessors: their conduct since Uiat
time has added to this suspicion; and
the motion now made to you has con-
firmed it.' Every one must remember
how, violently some .gentlemen in both
Houses of Parliament have for several
years been exclaiming against the late
custom of making long complaisant Ad-
dresses to the crown, by way of answer tp
his majesty's Speech from the throne;
and with how much zeal they endeavoured
to persuade us, to return to our old cus-
tom of presenting a short general Address
upon such occasions. Yet no sooner have
those gentlemen got into power, and I be-
lieve but a very small snare of it, tham
theyquite alter their tone, and propose te
us a much longer, and, I diinlc, a more pa-
rasitical Address than was ever proposed
by any of their predecessors.
Surely, Sir, tney must have a most con-
temptible opinion of this House, if thev
ex{$ect, that we should plunge into higa
encomiums upon measures which we know
nothing of,' and assert fcicts which it is not
possible for us to tell whether they be true
or not. • If we conHply with such a request,
I must say, they or their successors, for I
foresee their rei^ will not be long, will
have reason to cry out with the Roman
emperor, they are shocked with the slavish
comphiisance ^f the British senate. Whea
1 say this, Sir, every' gentleman must see,
that I point at those expressions in the
Motion, which propose our declaring that
we have a grateful $ense of the early care
His majesty took, in forming such a force
in the Low Countries, as might- be of ser-
vice to the support of the House of Aus-
tria, find restoring' the balance of power ;
that this could not have been so effectually
done as by his majesty's sending a body of
his electoral troops into those parts ; and
that the king of Sardinia's being enabled
' • From the l^Qdon Kagaztae.
g56]
16 GEORGE IL
to act a part usefiil to the commoo caoae,
and the queen of Hungary^s beins encou-
raged to bear up amidst her diScultieSy
are owing to the spirit and vigour his mar
jesty has shewn in the defence of his aQies.
r fw God's sahet Sir, what have we now
before us, that can sive the least authority
for any of those uttering declarations ?
His msjes^^s Speech, indeed, seems to
give some sort of authori^, but it is an
established maxim in this House, to look
upon that as the meech of the ministers ;
and ministers, we know, are not very scru-
pulous in assertmg facti^ which, they think,
may tend to a justification of their con-
duct, as is manifest from many speeches
during our late iadministration, and parti-
cularly from that Speech made by our mi-
i^isters in the year 1726-7,* which is, per-
haps, one of the longest and most stuffed
with bold assertions, Uiat was ever attempt-
ed to be passed upon a British parliament ;
and every ope may now see the misfor-
tunes naturally flowing from the conduct
which that Speech was intended to justify.
The facts asserted in Uiat Speech were such
as have since appeared to be false, and, in-
deed, they were such as from the very
nature of things would have appeared sus-
picious to an independent and unpreju-
diced parliament; we therefore never
ought, m our Address, to repeat any of
those facts mentioned or referred to in the
Speech from the throne ; much less in our
Address, to declare our satiation with re-
gard to any circumstance that may proba-
bly, upon a strict examination, appear to
be false, which is, I think, the case with
regard to several circumstances mentioned
in this proposition. That his majesty has
sent a few of his British troops to FLanders
Is certainly true, and, I believe, we shall
very soon find it to be so, by tlie demands
made upon us for their support and trans-
portation ; but how tliey can, in that coun-
Sff be of any service to the queen of
ungary, or to the restoring of^the ba-
lance of power, is more than 1 can compre-
hend, unless it could be said, that the
Dutch are to join with us, in order to forin
an army for attacking France upon that
side; and if 1 am rightly informed, the
(Contrary of this is true ; for, I believe, they
have declared to us, that whoever strikes
the first blow in that part of the world,
thev will look upon as their enemies, and
w]ll treat them as such. But suppose,
Sir, that the force we have sent to rlan-
*SeeYol.a, p.583.
Debate in4he Cemmam \%S6
ders could there be of ai^sflr^totbe
queen of Hungary, of the bsJiDoe of
power, can W€ say, it has been done esrly}
Early with regard to what. Sir? SaKly,it
cannot be said to have been done eady
with regard to (lie season of Ae yttr; for
the time for action was almost tnet before
they were sent there. And with regard to
the war now carrying on against the qoeen
of Hungary, I am sure, it cannot be nil
to have been done early; forif ithadoot
been for the surprising ndeli^ andbnvery
of her own subjects, and the mote nr«
prising ill conduct of her enemies, she had
been obliged to submit to a carte-blanche
lon^ before we sent a man into Flanders.
This word, * early,* can therefore be sup-
posed to relate only to our new ministen;
and in this case it ouffht to faa^ a coDse-
quence which I wish it may, bat it is sodi
a one as they, 1 believe, do not wish to
see* It ought to engage us in an enquiqr,
why this was not done by our former mi-
nister ; for if it is such a wise sod such a
necessary step in our new ministers, why
waa it not thought on? Why was it not
made by our old ?
For these reasons. Sir, the seeding of
our troops to Flanders is a measure which
we ought not to precipitate ourselfes into
an approbation of: At least we cannot,!
think, say to his majesty that it has b^
done early. As the a£Bur cannot yet come
properly before us, I shall not detennbe
myself upon either side of the question;
but in the light it^ appears to me at present,
I cannot think the measure right, and if it
was, I am sure we cannot say, it was eailj
enough undertaken, unless we design m
Address for our new ministers and noi for
our sovereign, lliis part of the prooosi-
tion I cannot therefore agree to, and the
next is really surprising. To desire this
House to assert positively, that a proper
force could not be formed in Flandets
without taking Hanoverians into our pay,
before we have had any one proof of the
fact laid before us, is really a piece of as-
surance in our new ministers, saperiorto
any that was ever practised by any of their
predecessors. Whether we have amoogrt
us, now the Blue Kibbon is fled, anyone
that is of his majesty's cabinet coancil»I
do not know ; but this, 1 am sure, i> >
fact that cannot be asserted by anvimt
such as have been for som6 time tn^re;
and therefore I must beg of our ministers
not to desire us to assert a &ct which we
neither do nor can know any thing about
I think it highly unprobable, that we coubl
857]
m the AddreiS ofThanki.
A. D. 1742.
[856
get DO troops to htre- in all Eturope, be*
lides Uiese HaDOverians ; and if there were
any other troops to be had in Europe,
they m^ht have been mardied into Flan-
den time enoiu;h for anj use we can
Bttke of them; tor it is certain, we cannot
now make nse of them, either in Flanders,
or any where dse, till next spring, before
which time it is as certain, that troops may
march to Flanders, from the remotest
comer of Europe.
I shall not anticipate the debate. Sir,
other upon our senoing our own trooos to
Eandersyior upon marching the Hano-
veriaDS and Hessians thither ; but I must
ohienre, that as things appear to me at
rent, if we design that our troops should
of any real service to Uie queen of
Hungary, we should have sent our own
troops to Hanover, in order to have form-
ed such an army there, as might have pre-
vented M. MaiUebois's march to the relief
of Ptague, or to have drove him and adl
his ragamuffins back to his own country ;
for if we had formed a sufficient army in
Hanover, and had been ready to attack
him, or follow him, I believe he would
hardl]r have ventured to have marched his
army into Bohemia ; and if he had been
forced to march back to his own country,
I believe all the French troops then m
Germany would soon have been at the
mercy of the queen of Hungary, and the
Emperor would have been obliged to come
to an accommodation with her, upon such
terms as we had thought fit to propose.
This, Sir, I shall grant, is foreign to the
present debate ; but it is a very ^ood rea-
son for our resolving to say nothmg in our
Address either about sending our own
troops to Flanders, or about marching the
Hanoverians thither. If our ministers are
fond of havinff compliments from this
House upon theur measures, I hope they
will stay till those measures are Drought
properly before us, and then our compli-
ments will come with a greater, ana a
much mor^ desirable weight.
The late turn of affiurs in the north, I
shall allow, Sir, to be happy both to this
loogdom and to Europe ; because it has
disappointed the tools of France in Swe-
den, and may bring some of them to the
block. I wislj, I saw some French tools
nearer home brought into the same sort
of dangler. But let that turn be as happy
AS it will, we have no busbess with con-
ciliating his majesty up9n it^ because it
^pliea, as if we thought it owing in some
measure to the conduct of our ministers ;
whereas H is entirely owmg to the wisdom
of die Russian court, the conduct of theur
generals, and thebravery of their troops.
I shall likewise grant, sir, that the pre*
sent conduct of we king of Sardinia is of
mat use to the common cause; and that
Uie queen of Hungary has bore up in a
venr surprising manner amidst the many
difficulties she has been, and still is sur*
rounded with ; but 1 cannot be so com-
plaisantas to say, that either tiie conduct
of the king of Sardinia, or the courage of
the queen of Hungary, b owing to the
spirit and vigour our ministers have shewn
in the defence of our allies. I say, I can-
not pass such a compliment, because I do
not think it is true. The conduct of the
king of Sardinia may, indeed, be pardy
owing to our money, and the neighbour*
hood of our fleet in the Mediterranean ;
but it is chiefljr owing to his own interest^
and to the spirit which the queen of Hun*
gary has shewn in her own defence. And
as to the latter, her bearine up under ao
many difficulties is so far from being the
eflect of vigour shewn by our ministers,
that all the difficulties she has been
broi^ht into are owin^ to the conduct of
our late minister ; for if he had made any
one right step upon the death of the late
emperor, I am persuaded, the French
would not have dared to send a man into
Germany, nor would the duke of Bavaris
have dared to attack the queen of Hun«
gary. It is true, our new ministers have
made at least a shew of a little more spirit
and vieour than their predecessor) but as
yet it IS but a shew, and before they made
even that shew, the queen of Hun^anr
was extricated out of her greatest difficuf-
ty, by the bravery of her troops, and the
treacherous conduct of the Frendi towards
the king of Fhissia.
I have now. Sir, gone through this long
complicated motion. I say complicated,
because it kevidendy made up of profes*
sions of duty and afilection to his majesty,
and of compliments to the ministers upon
their conduct. As to the former part of
it, I shall be for making those professions
as strong and explicit as you please : X
shall even be for enlarging them if it be
desired ; but as to the other part, I think,
we ought never on such an occasion to
pass compliments upon the conduct of our
ministers, and especially such as appear
evidendy false. 1 hope I have shewn that
all those desired by this modon are such,
or at least highly improbable; therefore, I
hope, the hon. gentleman will lelive Chan
m]
l6.safiOBjG]5 11.
Dcbatt i^it^e Gon^wions
[See
^pu{p ^ai opatent hlrxisGlf with; that part
lp( bl^ ,n9Qtk>a tv-high .coDtains our profes-
BioQS of -dutj .^iKui.aificctioa to hi/iaajeaty
[only.. •...,' • •' .
Sir; I. hope. t shall nev/^V be ac-
xused of having opposed a proper and du-
^tiful return to his majesty'is speech fron?
'the throne : 1 was always o^ ppiiiion, that
when his majesty is graciously pleased in
•liis speech to descend to particulai:s^ anf
.^^ve us some account of the state of our
.public affairs, we are in duty bound tp
retum an answer^ of E^ome kind or otbeif,
'to : every particular mentioned, in his
.majesty's speech ; and I do not well know
.;what gentlenaen mean when they &ay» this
is contrary to the custom of oiir ancestors.
I am sure. Sir, this method of addressing
'has been a custom ever since I can remem-
bei ,- and I believe it has been th^ custom
»ever since our kings' have been pleased (o
give us any particular account of our
,afliurs m their speeches h*om the throiijc.
Hiis^ it is very well known , was not t^ie
custom in ^cient times ; for in those dap
the king made but a very short speech,
berhaps a. general compliment to the. two
Houses, and lefl it to his Cliancellor io
,<lescend to particulars, and to give the
parliament an ac'coi^nt of the state of pub-
lic al&iirs, and the reasons for calling them
together.
. In those thnes therefore. Sir, it was
. fight in both Hpuses to return a, general
* ansjver ; for they could not with any pro-
' priety take notice, in their address to the
king, of any thing that had been said to
them by the Lord Chancellor. But it
, being now the custom, and a most gracious
, a|id respectful custom, I think, it is : I
' say, it being now ' the custom for the kii^
. himsell^ in his speech from the throne, to
communicate to us ia particular account of
* the state of our aiFairs, we ought at least
^0 be as respectful to him qs he is to us ;
and consequently, in our Address, to take
some notice at least, of every thing he has
been pleased to mentioQ. Nay, as our
addresses upon sucli occasions are never
^held to be an approbation qf any measure
meA^pned in them, we ought to make
* soni^ sort of compliment, upon every thing
^ia$ bi^en pleased to say, unless the
sure be evidently wrong, and such as
rtairily m^t with a censure, in tliat
I of jparliament.
'*"^^iig the case,' Sir, I think there
ll^pyojppjfpd^ B^/ this , motion' biit
^hat mav be safely, and I think, ought in
duty to be agreed to. Wc have not, it ig
true, as yet had time to consider fully
every particular clrcumataace in his ma-
jesty^s Speech, and proposed to be in*
serted in pur Address; but, inmyopiiuon,
there is no measure mentioned io either,
that appears evidently to be wrong. I am
convinced, that upon a thorough examina-
tion they will all appear to be right, and
will receive the approbation of &» Hous^.
As to our sending our troops to Flanden,
though I do not pretend to be in the secrets
of the cabinet, yet irom those circum-
stances that were publicly known 1 must
conclude^ it was not only right but neces-
sary for us to sen^a body of our troops to
the continent, in order to shew to those
who secretly, perhaps, inclined to enter
into an^ alli;uice with us against the am-
bitious projects of France, that ire not
only would, but were ready to protect
them against the rescntmentof that power-
ful and aspiring nation. And if it was ne-
cessary for us to send a body of our troops to
ihe coiitinenti Flanders was the most pro-
per ^lace we could send them to, for an-
swering this purpose, not only because it
was the most centrical, but because ^e
could from thence, with the greatest ease,
carry the war into France itself, in case
that court should resolve to send any more
of its troops into Germany, or to attack
any of those powers that might declare in
our favour.
This badaccordingly. Sir, the intendedef-
Tect r it not only prevented the French from
sendingany more troops into Germany, but
it prevented their sending any troops to
the assistance of the Spaniards in Savo).
Would our sending our troops to Hanover
have had this, effect > Could we thereby
have drove M. Maillebois back to his own
country? No, Sir, the French being then
secure against afiy attack upon tlieir own
dominions, ifM. Maillebois found he could
not safely march directly^into Bohemia,
he would have marched up the Rhine to-
wards Alsace, ^nd after being joined there
by a fresh body of troops, he would have
marched to ' Bohemia,* and thereby ha^'^
made that C9untr7 the seat of war, which
would have been dangerous for the gucen
of Hungary, and extremely inconvenient
for us. At the same time, and for the
same reason, the French would have sett
a body of troops to the assistance of the
Spaniards in Savoy, which would we
forced thfe klnp of Sardinia to desert ntf
alliance' with' the^Ueen of Ptijpg^T»^°^
DaaUiHiheCmman9 9ntkePtae§RlL A.D. ITit. [88ff
(>ear» they wmdd ceitainl? lunre refused
pantinff him so many ; but they were
10 blinofid by their corruption, that they
did not consider the consequences. . This
deitroyed irrecoverably that ^orious re*
public; and this will destroy every repub-
uc, wheife any one man nas wealtn or
poirer enough to corrupt a great number
of people. Let us consider. Sir, p what
liberty and property truly consists, and we
ihalliee, that where any one man has in
bit poirer a larffe funa for corruption,
both msy be abamutely destroyed, and an
arbitrary power established, bdTore people
become generally sensible of their oanger.
A mso's liberty consbts m its not being in
the potrer of any man or magbtrate, with
iDapunity, to imprison or kfll him, or in-
iiict any personal punishment upon him,
unktt ne has been formally tned, and
juidy condemned by that method of trial,
and by those laws, which have been esta-
bliihea, and are approved of by the majo-
rity of the society to whidi ne belonjgs.
Property again consists in a man's being
secure of enjoying, and transmitting to his
poiterity, what has been lea to him by his
aacestors, or acquired by his own indua-
tiy, unleai the whde, or some part of it,
be taken from him, in pursuance of laws
tbat have been established,, and are ap-
prored by the majority of the society to
whice he belongs. Whilst this is the caaey
crery man of the society enjoys lib^ty
and property in their full extent ; and thia
will be our case as long as oor elections
and parliaments remain free from any in-
ilnence, either compulsiye or corrupt.
But suppose. Sir, a majority of our
Houae of Commons consisted of such as
beld lucrative places from the crown, and
loppose a judge were to be brought be-
fore them, who, for the sake of some cor-
nipt consideration, had, at the desire of
the crown, ill^^y and unjustly condemn-
ed and imprisoned many of his fellow sub«
j^ ; would not the crown, I inean the
ounjaters of the crown, endeavour to pro-
^ such a judge? Would not they give
lunta to their officers in this House, that
a diimiasion would be the certain conse-
<|ueDce of their giving a vote against this
^ of a judge ? And can we suppose, that
Bttny of those officers would chuse to lose
« place ofSOOL or 1,000^ a year, rather
twgive a vote in favour of this judge?
Sir, I have a very great opinion of our pre-
KQt judges, but without any reflection
ppon them, I will say, that it is upon the
^B^spendency and integrity of our parlia-
ments that we must depend £or the into-
Sity and impartiality of our judges ; for
e crown has many ways to rewa^ a pli*
able judge, and as many to punish an oh*
stinate one : nay, if parliaments were onca
become depenaent upon the crown, an
obstinate integrity would of itself be suffi-
cient for gettmg a judge removed by the
Address of both Houses of Parliament ;
for if the majority of parliament were such
as depended upon tne crown for getting
or holding some lucrative employment,
they would be easily persuaded, that such
a judffe had done injustice to the crown,
or had fomented sedition by shewing frt*
vour to the seditious, and under this pre*
tence, they would vote for addressing to
remove him, without considering, that
they thereby established arbitrary power,
and made not only their own estates, but
their lives and liberties dependent upon
the arbitrary will of their sovereign ; for
by this precedent all our judges would be
convinced, diat they must taike directions
from the minsters of the crown in all pro*
secutions, trials, and causes that might af«
terwarda come before them; and what
man could say, he had any liberty or pro-
perty left, if the ministera of the crown
had it in their power to take his life, liber-^
ty, or estate from him, whenever they-
pleased, by a false accusation, and a mock
trial?
Even afUr such a fatal turn in our con*
stitution, as long as a spirit oi corruption
prevailed among the people, and the court
kept within the bounds of common de-
cency, there would be no occasion for any
compulsive methods either at elections or
in parliament, because the ministers would
always find people enough that would bo
ready to take their money or their favours,
and 10 expectation or return would asree
to vote as directed ; but if by the ridicu-
lous conduct of the court a spirit of liberty
should arise among the people, the vidnit
and compulsive methods usual in such
cases would he made use of. Informers,
or DUatores, as the Romans called them,
would be found out and retamed, and spread
over the whole nation, in order to brine
false informations against those who dared
to oppose the court either at elections or in
parliament ; and in both, men would be
forced to vote according to the directions
of a minister, in order to preserve that
property by a slavish subjection, which
they had before been endeavouring to en--
crease by a villainous corruption.
After what I have said, Sir, I bcgie, X
SSff I6GE0R6BIL IM^kliiUieCmmoma^ikc Pl^BH [M
need not perticttkrlj mention aD the odwr
methods, bf which a commt dependent
parliament may sap the founaations of our
constttation : ensnaring laws may be made,
or the laws we haTe for securing our liber-
ties may be repealed or suspended, upon
various pretences, without a corrupt man's
being sensible, that he is thereby exposing
his own estate to the precarious tenure (x
arbitrary power. On pretence of a sham
plot or a pretended disaffection, the Habeas
Corpus act, that comer stone of our liber-
ties, may be suspended for a twelvemonth,
and under the same pretence that suspen-
sion may be renewed for another, and a
third twelvemonth, till at last the annual
suspension of that salutary law may go as
glibly down as the Mutiny or Ma^tax
Bill nofr does ; for when these two Bills
were first introduced, no man supposed,
they would ever become Bills of course,
to be passed without opposition in every
aucceeding session of parliament
The ke^in^ up a Standing Anny hi
this isUind m time of peace, was always
till the Revolution deemed mconsistent
with our constitution. Since that time,
indeed, we have always Uiought, that the
keeping up of a small number of regular
troq>s IS necessary for preserving our con-
stitution, or at least the present establish-
ment. How far this may be right I shall
not pretend to determine, but I must ob-
serve, that the famous Scheme for over-
turning our constitution, which was pub-
lished m the year 1629, required but S,000
foot for this purpose ; and if king Chartes
the 1st had, m ttie year 1641, been pro-
vided with such a number of regular troops,
upon whom he might have depended tor
over-awine the mob of the city of Lon-
don, his mte, I believe, would have been
very different from what it was. I am
very &r firom thinking, that such a very
smal] number, even now our people are so
much disused to arms, would be sufficient
for overturning our constitution ; but there
is a certain number which would be infal-
libly sufficient for this purpose, and it is
not easy to determine how near we may
now be come to that number. Now, sup-
pose we are come within 2 or 3,000 of
that number, and that a minister, in
order to render his success against our
constitution infallible, should upon some
specious pretence or other, ^ire the
jiarliament to consent to an augmenta-
tion of 2 or 3,000 men to our army ; can
we suppose that such a small augmen-
tauon, upon a plausible pretence, would
be lebsed by a parUament, chiaHy cn^
posed of officers and freemen? Caniia
suppose, diat any man would risk 1» los*
ing a lucrative employment, by voting
a^nst such a small augmentatioa? Soi&e
civil powers to be executed by civil officen,
and some miKtary powers to be executed
by a standing army, or a standing militia,
are certainly neoesnry in all governments :
I am afraicl, it is impossible to preserve
a free government, wnen all those powns
are loafed in one single man ; but wlm
they are not oaSj lo^ed in one sis^
man, but greatly increased b^ond wfasiis
necessary for tlie support of a freeflwem*
ment, I am sure the freedom of ttst woh
vemment must soon be at an end ; sod it
is very hard to distinguish between tfaa
powers necessary for the sufiport of a free
government, and those tltiU are sufficient
torestabUriiittganarbitraiyooe: thepfr'
tition is so thin lihat it may easily be nm-
taken, and certainly will be mkwai, bjr
most of those who are under a tenptatioa
to judge partialiy ia ftvour of araitisry
power.
This, Sir, must convinoe every tras
lover of liberty, how necessary it is^ that
no member of this assonbly, or atlesBtn
few as possible, should lie under such s
temptatioh. I shafl grant, that in moit
thii^ that come before this House, some
of our members may have a private in*
terest in opposing or agreeing to it, but
as long as this private interest does not
proceed Crotn the fiivours they enjoy or
expect from the crown, it can never iajurs
the public good ; because if some have a-
Erivate interest in opposing, others will
ave a private interest m agreeing to vhat
is proposed, and those whpee private in-
terest is no vray concerned^ will almrs
cast the balance in- fiivour of the pob*
He good. The granting of money ii
the only case where we can suppose the
members generally engaged, by toeir pri-
vate interest, to oppose what is neceisaxy
for the public service ; but this interest a
so small with regard to eax^ particular
member, that it can never be of so j
weight: this is demonstrated. Sir, fnxn
the whole course of our history ; for I
defy any man to give me an instance,
where the parliament denied granting what
was necessary for the puUic service, oolesa
they were denied justice witii regard to
the redress of grievances, or onlM thejr
had well grounded apprehensions that tbe
money would be misapplied.
But.Iet us see, Sir, bow tUs^ugwicttt
8893
DebaUhOe
0HhiPi0MBKL A. IX trie*
will stand upon dn other tide af the 4iM»<
tioB. It is oertaiiiy thet the poriieiiicDt
•light never to grant more then is abio*
hitely neceaaarj for the public service: it
is liKewiBe certakiy that we never on^t
to grant even idiat is necessary, till all
grievaac^cs be redressed, and our fimner
mnts regularly and strictly accounted
lor. This is our duty as members of tins
Houae, irat shall we perform this du^, if
a oMfority of ns be greatly concerned in
mteveat to neglect it ? And this wfll aU
ways be the case, if a majority of us hold
or expect some lucrative office or em«
ployiaent at die pleasure ci the crown ;
beottiea it will always be the interest of
minialeia, and even their safbty
tmwa be coocemed, m our not pei ^
thia du^. SuDpose they askifrom paiiia^
ment 5OOfi00L er a million fbr carrying
on some whimsieal, perhiqie pernicious
scheme of their own ; will a mend»er of
this HiNise, who is to pay for his share not
above SOL of this sum, reAise mntiBg it^
when he is to get or hdd 0OO£ or IfiOOL
a year by consenting to the fpaat ? WiH
a nsmnber of this House insist upon first
redresainff agrievaace, by whidi he tofiers
little, peraaps no sensk>le prejudice, when
he is to get or hold 3 or 900^/. a year by
letting it remain? And finally, Sir, will a
memterof tfak House adl aiinisters to a
strict aceoont, by which he can never
expect to pot a fiuthing into his own
pocket, when, by neglecting to do so, he
may get or hold a good post or employ*
ment, and perhaps .preserve a roundTsam
which he banaen has purloined firom the
public^
Sir, I was sorry to hear a jroung gentle-
man talk so much of men's^rivate paieioas
and aieotidos, and of every man^s 'having
a Tiew to the service ef some fisvourite
private passion, in every vole he gave in
parliament or at elections. I hope the
case ia Ihr otherwise, but if it is not, we
ought to endeavoar to make it so, by
pottiag it out of the'power (at least as fiaur
aa we can by such laws as this) of any
man to sefve fahnself* by Ma way of voting
in parliament or at elections, any farther
than may result to him friaa the general
good cf hb country. If we can So this:
If we can pot it oat of the power of the
selfish and mM^cenary to sell their votes in
parliament, no man wtti purchase a seat
there at any high price, and this will, of
course, pot an end to bribery and cor-'
mption at electieasf for no mercenary
soul will ptttehasn 'what* he atuM wm,
[809
and dMie who ale promptsd by their am*
bition to purchase, will never go to majf
high price^ nor will they submit to be the
slaves of a minister after they have pur#
chased^ £ven auaisters themselves wouU .
cease dieir bribery at electiens, because
they coold not depend upon haviae their
candidate's Vote in parlimnent, if he had
no lucrative office d^>ending upon his
vodog always with the minister ; and if
the mnid-gates of the treasury were not^
opened at any election, I am convinced^
we should soon have little or no Imbery ia
die kingdom.
Whilst there are purchasers, Sir, tfieie
wiUbe sellers': I am afraid there are at
present too many of both ; but if you can
make it worth no man'a while to purchase^
you will put an end to the trdic ; and
thia is the design <^ the Bill now proposeik
I have shewn, that if you do not agree t6
it, there will be^ there must be a corrupt
dependency in parliament ; that by sudi
a dependency our constitution may be
overturned, without any compulsive de*
pendency; and that the latter may be
made use of by an arbitrary government^
aad certainly will be made use of, as soon
as it becomes necesaaiy for the support of
ita arbitrary power* Upon this side, Sir^ .
the danger is certain and inevitaUe; let
us then consider tine danger nretended te
bex» the other. If we excrade officers^
orthe greatest part of them, from having
seats in this House, it is said it will intro*
duoe anarchy and confusion, because it
will be impossible to govern sncfa a nnmef»
ous assembly as this, withoat a power in
the crown to reward those who appeae
aealous in its service; and that ae soon aa
this impossibility is perceived, dU omr oft
fioers, chril aad militaryi, will join with the
crown in laying aside the use of paxha*
What the boa. gentle
Sir, by govemingaimh a nomerous
bly, i£>notkimw; but aoootdiag to th«
common acceptation of the word, I
be sorry tesee it inthe power of a
to govern either Hoase of P&rliameat, bf
any other method than Uiat of convinch^
the majority, that nothing ia proposed oe
intended but what iafor the pubkc good s
fbr If either House were to be govemoA
by the hopes of reward, lam sore it coaUl
be of no service to the people, andof veryi
little even to thecrown itself; beeaase mm
designand mt of parliaments is» diattbey
may be a check upon the conduct or
$ aad M t«att eiMi^ bcfaafioor
801]
16 GEORGE n. JMaUinOeamiimumaelHaaBiU. [898
in this Home is governed W his h<^i of
reward, will ever set himselfup as a check
upon the conduct of those ifho alooe can
bestow the reward he ezpeots. We must
therefore suppose, that mtnistem may pre*
vail with a majority of this House to ap-
prove or agree to what appears to be for
the public service, without having it in
their power to give a tide, post, or pen-
eion, to every one that approves of their
measures ; or otherwise we must condudOi
that no such House ought to exists and,
conseouently, that the very foim of a
limited government ought to be abolished
in this selfish and cdrrupt nation. What
effect some late corrupt practices may
have had upon the genius and morals of
the lower sort of people, I do not know;
bht, 1 hope, it has as yet had little mr no
effect upon the generality of those tiiat
have any chance of being memben of this
House ; and unless they are beoome very
much degenerated, we must from expe*
rience conclude, that when our ministers
pursue popular and right measures, they
nay depend upon the assistance and ap*
probation of parliament. This, I mj^ we
must from experience conclude, mr in
former as es our ministers had but few re-
wards to bestow, and yet they never failed
of having the parliament's apnrobation,
when their measures were sucli as were
agreeable to the people. Nay, from the
very nature of the case we most draw the
same conclusion ; for a House of Com-
mons freely chosen by the people, nnist
approve of what the people approves of:
it from selfish motives they should dis»
approve, or oppose such measures, the op-
posing members would be sure of being
turned out at the next election ; and, as
the king has it in his power to bring on a
new election whenever he pleases, his.
ministers may easily get rid of such selfish,
mean spirited members, and may, conse-
quently, if they desire it, always have a
parliament generaUy composed of ^ende*
men of true honour and public spint; but
the contrary is what most ministers desire,
as has of late, been manifest from the cha--
racters of those who were genen^ set up
as candidates upon the court interesti
We can never therefore be in danger of
anarchy or confusion, firom its not being
in the power of a minister to bribe a majo-
rity of this House into his measures, nor
can we suppose that the people will re-
chuse a majority of those who have, in a
former session, opposed what was agree-
to the grottest part of their consti*
but when bribery and onnipt
motives prevail within doors, they mSi
certainly prevail witiiout, and then ve
may see a member burnt in effigy one
year in the public streets of his bmoagh,
and re-chosen the year following u theirre-
piesentative in a new parliament; we may
see the most notorious fraudulent pnc*
tioes carried on by the anderlingt io
power, and those underlings encouisged
by the minister, and protected by a majo-
rity m. pariiament : we may see themoit
unpopubr and destructive measoies pur-
sued by our ministers, and all approved,
na^, applauded by parliament These
thu^ we may see. Sir : these things ne
have seen within Uiese last twen^ yean;
and this has brought our afcifs bothat
home and abroad into the rndsadioly
situation which is now acknowledged w
all, and will soon, I fear, be severely ^t
by the whole nation.
If the present distress q£ our domesde
affiurs were a secret, I should avoid men*
tioning it as mudi as any gentkoan what-
ever; but ahttl it is no secret ether to
our enemies or friends ; and this makes Ac
former deapise us, and the latter ahy of
entering into any engagements with ui.
We maythreaten, .but our enemiea knov
we are unable to carry our threats into
execution : we mi^promise, but our firiends
know we are unaUe to perform our es-
gagements. This knowledae has made
uiose who are the professed enemies of
public liberty m<He daring in their at-
temptai and, I am afraid, it will render
it impossible to form any conftderscy suf-
ficient for d^eating their present andmioos
projects; and it is so erident that this
misfortune has been brought upon us and
Europe hjf our bad ceconomy at heme^
and our wicked, wrong-headed,* or. pusil-
lanimous conduct abroad, that I am sur-
priaed to hear the contrary asaerted now,
when the &tal consequences of oar con-
duct are become so glaring.
I shall grant. Sir, that the nation has
been of late years involved in many broOsi
but I will affirm, and it has been fuUr
proved at the respective times thoae broik
happened, that every one we have been
engaged in smce his late majesty^s acces-
sion to the throne, has proceeded from
some scheme of our own contrivingi or
from some wrong step in our own ad-
ministration, I shall not trouble you with
taking notice of every particular, because
it would be. tedious, and, I tibmk, un-
neceswy ; theifsfore I .shall ooafioe my-
DOaie m iki Commmt mi ike Place SiM. A. D. 1742.
»S]
self to the three wvs now carrjriiig on
in Europe, I mean that between Spain and
UB $ that between the elector of Bavaria
asButed by the French, and the queen of
Hunnry ; and that between the Swedes
and Muwovitea ; and I shall shew, that
every o^e of them nroceeded from the lidi-
culoua conduct or our ministers. With
r^;ard to the Spanish war, if our ministers .
had, at the time of the treaty of Seville,
insifled upon an explanation of former
treattea, which had, before tfaattime, been
misinterpreted by Spun: if they had in-
sisted upon Spain's giving up her pretence
of visiting, seardimg, or seising, in time
of peace, my ships in the high seas of
America, on account of what &ey oailed
contraband goods,! am convinced, the
court of Spain would have agreed to mve
up that pretence, in the most explicit
terms, rather thui lose, the advantages
stipulated tor them by that treaty. Even
afterthis fidse step, if our ministers hadpro-
perly resented the treatment our commis-
saries met with at the court of Spain, and
had peiemptorily insisted upon immediate
satisfaction for the first insult our merchant
afaipa met with m the seas of America, the
Spanish court would have complied, rather
than enter into a war with this nation, at
the very time they were engaged in a
war with the empevor in Italy. But in-
stead of this, our ministers, ever since the.
year 1790, appeared so complaisant in
every negociation with that court, and
submitted so tamely to evety insult, Uiat
the court of Spain began to imagine, that
vre would give up the point in dispute, ra-
ther than come to an open rupture with
them; and this, I am persuaaed, would
have been the conseeiuence of the late
CooTention, if the indignation of our
people had not at last ^ot the better of the
submission of our ministers. Our present
war with Spain is, therefore, evidendy
owinff to the ill4imed compkisance and
pusillanimity of our mbisters, and yet this
complaisance and pusillanimity was in
every step approved by our parliaments,
and has not even yet been censured, not>
withstanding the fatal consequence it has
produced, and the disappomtment of aU
those hopes, with which our ministers so
confidently flattered us, that their tedious
negodations vrould at last ead in an ho-
nourable and advantageous peace.
Tbent Sir, with r^;ard to the war m
Germany, even the kmg oi Prussia's in-
vading Silesia was owing to the bad con-
duct A^urininisters; for if they, had in-
[8M
sistedupon satisfiKtion, with regard to his
claims upon Silesia, before they guaranteed
the Prasmatic Sanction, they might have
obtained a stipulation for that purpose
from the court of Vienna, which would
have prevented that invasion. But even
after this neglect, they might have pre-
vented the war now carrying on in uer*
many: for the king of Prussia ofered such
terms as ought in prudence, perhaps in
justice too, to have been accepted by the
court of Vienna, and would have been ac-
cepted by that court, if we had insisted
upon it as the condition sine qua nan of
our giving them any assistance. If we had
done this, it is evident from facts and
dates, that the elector of Bavaria would
never have been chosen emperor, nor
would he have attacked the queen of
Hungary, and in that case no Frenchman
would have entered Germany in a hostile
manner ; for none of the French troops
entered Germany, nor did the elector of
Bavaria commit any one act of hostili^
against the queen of Hungar5r, till the king
of Prussia was drove into their alliance by
the obstinacy of the court of Vieuna ; and
that court was encouraged in their ob-
stinacy by our ministers, which I need not
trouble you with demonstratmg, because it
is evident not only from the papers upon
our table, but also from the Resolution of
this House in favour of the queen of Hun-
gary, before she had any other declared
enemy beside Pmssia, and especially from
the violent speeches that were made by
some ipentlemen upon. that occasion.
Having thus shewn, Su*, that it was by
the bad conduct of our ministers that the
French and Bavarians were encouraged to
attack the queen of Hungary, I need not
use many words to prove, that the war
between Sweden and Muscovy is owing
to the same cause ; for from the time that
war was dedaied by Sweden it is evident*
that if the French liad not resdved to s^
their troops into Grermany, the Swedes
woidd not have declared war against
Muscovy: and consequently, if the con-
duct of our ministers was the cause of the
French resolving to send their troops into
Germany, it was the ultimate cause of the
Swedes declaring war against Muscovy.
It is therefore evident. Sir, that not only
the present disbresses of this nation, but au
the distresses and confusions in which
Europe is at present involved, are owing
to the late measures of our administration;
and though the consequences were not
perh^ at first so visible at they are at
16'OBOlGBn. DehaeinAtQmmMnvnihePIweJm. £891
wescnt, j^ it cnruiot Im «id, they wiere
not foretold ; for what we noir fee has
been often foretold both within doon and
without; and, appeared manifest to a great
anility of the nation, thourii to our great
tnisfortune it nerer appeared lo to a ma^
jority of this House, which I am not at all
aurpriaed at, coniidering the great number
of placemen and expectants we had al-
ways in this assembly. That any of
those placemen or expectants were wiuhlly
blind, I riiall not pretend to say: I do be-
lieve, that many, if not all of them, were
imposed on by the specioas pretences
made use of upon each respective occap
aion ; and I the rather believe so, because
I know how easy it is to impose upon men,
when their own private interest is made
the harbinger of tne deceit ; but the mis-
fortunes we now labour under, and the evi-
(dence from whence those misfortunes
bltve all proceeded, ought to be a prevailing
argument with us, to jprevent anj^ public
deceit being hereafter mtroduoed into this
House by the same sort of gentleman-
usher. That this Bill will be altogether
•fiectual for this purpose, is what I shall
not pretend to assert, but I am convinced
it wUl have some effect; and as it is the
best remedy I can think of at present,
I am therefore for agreeing to the motion.
Mr. PhiUpt f
Sir ; as I had the honour to be one
<if those that received the couMnands of
the House last session, to brinff in a Bill
of this nature, I cannot sit still, and not
testify my approbation of it now. If ever
there was a tme when it was necessary to
preserve the puri^ of this House, and to
g;uard against the ufluenee that the enjoy-
snent of power and profit is too aptto have
«n tfaemmdsofmen, this is thetmie, when
^e nation is poor, groaning under the
binden of heavy taxes, and yet luxurious
mod extravagant in the pursuit of plea-
■ures. Nothing can so efieqtually pre-
aerve this nation from ruin, as the main-
taining of innate freedom within these*
walls, and nothing can bo efcctuaUy attack
and get the better of that freedom, as theal-
turements of places and offices, which in-
sensibly lead men away from their first re-
fohres, and at leneth, by custom and
OKampIe, quite harden and corrupt them.
A bill therefore of this nature, that so
#fidenlhr tends (if you will give me leave
la use the expression) to * bad men out
«f tenmtation,' must necessarily • deftver
4bam from ovil|» therifcre I heertiUr coft-
Qor m the motion^
Mr. Sandys :
Sir; as it is verv well knoim, and,
I doubt not, very well remembered, that
I had last session the honour not only to
be one of those that received tlbe com-
mands of this House to bring in sach a
Bill, as is now proposed, but was also the
fiat mover for it, and as I shaU now be
against the motion, I think myself bound
in duty to my sovereign, to myself, to my
country,and to the liberties of Europe, to
cive my reasons for this change in nay be-
haviour, which, without an explanation,
might periiaps, by some gentlemeoy be
presumed to proceed from motivea of a
mercenary or ambitious nature; and I
mast begm. Sir, with assuring you, that
this ehuige in my behaviour doea not
proceed from anv chan^ in mj situation,
or fipom any dbance m my aeotiments
with regard to the Bill itself^ but iDerdiy
from a change in the circinnslanocs of our
affiurs both abroad and at home.
With regard to the neoessitj of our
having such a Bill 9a this passed into a lav,
mysentiments are rather confirmed thn
meicd by my diange of situation; bat, I
hope, there is no gentleman in this House
so deficient in that respect which ia doe to
his sovereign^ as to cmise to have hia asa-
jesty's assent to any necessary Bill rather
catuftSLeA than freely obtained. When I
talk of his nuges^. Sir, eveiy geatleanan
must be sensible^ that my duty as n sub>
ject, and now as a servant, ouiges me to
express myself with the greatest caution;
but as the great king William aometimes
altered his sentiments with regard to bills
in parliament^ I hone, I may sa j, without
any breach of my duty, that the wisest of
kings are in some cases too much in-
fluenced in their sentiments, with regard
to bills ottered to them by parliament, by
the artful insinuations or tnose who have
accidentally and undeservedly the honour j
of being in their councils. Though his
present majesty's sentiments, with regard I
to the Bill now proposed, were never pub- |
lidv known: though he never was brought i
under e necessity to declare them» vet we
have great reason to believe, that he was |
last, session prejudiced againat any auch
Bill 9A was then passed by this House.
This, I believe the majurity of us were
then convinoed of; but we had then the
misfiortune to be convinoed likevias, that
he had no man in his councib who would
attempt or presume to remove Aose pre-
This mid)9 i( aooMaqr <ar the
897]
DtbaieiniheCmmmuonaePlaceBaL A. D. I14/2i
pariiament to interfere, and by paning
such a Bill to endeavour to remove those
prejudices, by shemng him it was agree-
able to his supreme, however disagreeable
it mieht be to his subordinate councils.
But tiiank God ! our circumstances in this
respect are very much altered. I hope,
we are all convinced, I am sure, I am con-
vincedy that his majesty has now some
gentlemen in his councils that will take the
liberty to endeavour to remove his pre-
judicesy by shewing that such a Bill as
this no way incroaches upon his pre-
rogative, and is absolutely necessary for
preserving the liberties of tiis people ; and
as soon as they have done this piece of ser-
vice to their country, I am convinced, they
will themselves propose the bringingof such
a Bill into this House, which would cer-
tainly communicate a more exquisite
pleasure to every man who wishes well to
our present royal family, than can be com-
municated by his majesty's bare assent to
such a Bill.
I riiall grant, Sir, that we are obliged,
and ought to acknowledge our gratitude
to our sovereign, even when he does no
more than barely give the royal assent to
an useful, necessary, and popular Bill;
but the obligation is certainly much greater,
and wOl contribute more towards gaining
his majesty the affections of his people,
when such a Bill flows originally from the
crown itself, and is intrrauced here by
those who are the known servants of the
crown ; therefore as this Bill is an useful
and popular Bill, it must be the desire of
every gentleman who has a regard for the
present royal family, that it would come
trom the crown itself; and. as we have
great reason to expect this from some of
those who have been lately introduced mto
his majesty's councils, as soon as they can
gain a prevailing influence there, it is well
worth our while to wait a session or two,
for an event which is so much to be wished
for by every true friend to the Protestant
establishment
Thusy Sir, I have shewn such a diffis-
rence in the circiumstances of our a&irs at
home, as ought, I think, to prevail with
every gentleman to suspend, at least for
one session, his desire of^having such a law
passed ; and with regard to the ciroum-
stances of our affiurs abroad, there is like-
wise a diflference, which ought to be an ad-
ditional argument for suspending our de-
sires in fovour of this Bill, The affiurs of
Europe were last session at such a crisis as
demanded the most vigorous resolutions ia
t VOL. XII.]
[898
our counsels, but we had then the misfor-
tune to have a person at the head of our
administration, from whom we could ex-
pect no such resolution. From his in-
fluence we could expect nothhig but an
inglorious peace, or a sham war. In these
circumstances a contest with our sovereign
could be no detriment, but might be of
great advantage to the nation, because it
could produce nothing of worse conse-
quence than such apeace or war as was to
be expected from that minister's conduct,
and it might produce a change in our ad-
ministration. This was a reason for our
pushing the Bill at that time, even though
known to be contrary to our sovereign's
inclination. His majesty's wisdom and
goodness, and his regard for the cries of his
people, at last prevailed: the obnoxious
persons were removed from the adminis-
tration, and in their stead have been put
some gendemeuy from whohi we may
expect the most wise as well as the
most vigorous measures with regard to
our foreign affiurs. They have already
given us testimonies both of their wisdom
and resolution. From their conduct, sup-
ported by a perfect l^rraony between his
majesty and nis parlvuneot, we^may ex-
pect a elorious peBC&, or a vigorous and
successnil war : and therefore, we ou^ht
to be extremely cautious of doing any thmg
thatmayinterrupt that harmony; fciecause
such an interruption can now be attended
with no advantage either to this nation or
to Europe, but would certainly expose
both to a ruin which might otherwise have
been prevented.
Now, Sir, let us consider the circum*
stances in which we stand at present Wa
have all the reason in the world to believe^
that this Bill has been represented to his
majesty, by some of those that were lately
about him, as an incroachment upon tlie
prerogatives of the crown, and a step to-
wards introducing a republican form of
government. We have reason to believe^
that by such misrepresentaUons his majes-
ty has conceived some prejudices agamst
it ; and we cannot suppose, that those who
have so lately been introduced into his
councils, have yet had time to eradicate
those prejudices. If this Bill should be
offered to him for his assent, whilst he re-
mained under such prejudices, he would
look upon it as a most ungrateful return
frmn a parliament to whidi he had made
such a sacrifice : nay, he would look upcm
it as an attempt upon his crown, and an
affiront to his person ; aiid in' sudi a case,
[3M]
16 GBORGE II. Debaie in the Cammom m Ac Plau ML [900
from his majesty's known oomiBM and
high spirit, most we not suppose, mat be
.would reject it with the utmost disdain i
. This, Sir, would certainly produce a
rupture between his majesty and his par-
liament ; and in the present circumstances
of Europe, I tremble to think of the con-
seauences of such a rupture. What has
hitherto been the support of the aueen of
Hungary, what has encouraged her sub-
jects to venture their lives ana fortunes so
bravely, I may say, so desperately, in her
defence, has been the hopes that assistance
would at last come from afar, even firom
the remotest comers of the British domi-
nions. But if such a rupture should ensue,
what could she or her subjects expect from
us i Instead of beinff able to assist her,
we should be involvea in endless disputes,
perhaps in a tedious and destructive civil
war amongst ourselves: thus that brave
and heroic queen would at last be obliged
to submit to die power of France ; and
Polyphemus's favour, of our being the last
morsel, would be the only one we could
expect firom that insolent nation.
For these reasons. Sir, though I am as
great a friend as ever to the Bill now pro-
posed, though I shall be ready to embrace
the first favourable opportunity for having
it passed mto a law, yet I am against push-
ing for it at present, especially as I nave,
I thmk, good reason to believe, that I shall
. in a very short time have the pleasure of
seeing it readily agreed to by every branch
of our legislature.
• Mr. Felters CarnewaU:
Sir ; notwithstanding what has been
'Alleged, I shall take the fmdom to speak
my opinion of this Bill and of the present
measures ; and I. do assure the House, I
have had no share in the scramble for
• places. My political ambition, according
to tlie (dd e:tpression, has * cost me many
a grey groat ;* it has brought me nothing.
.A gentleman has said, tluit if the Lords
had expected this return, they had not
passed the last Bill. We have nothing to
do with the Lords, nor any reason to con-
sult their approbation or dislike. The
gentleman too makes a merit of having
conducted that Bill in this House, and
been ^he means of its passing. Do not
let him take all the merit to himself. I
was one of those who had the honour to
• receive the commands of the House to
•bring in that Bill, who helped to conduct
It, and to procure that benefit to the peo-
, pie of En^and which they expect from it.
I too. Sir, perhaps, lidped 4o brhg hlna
into the great honour and employaents
he now enjoys. If I had ever solicited a
place, that gentleman must have known it,
but I have been only one of the rounds of
the ladder by which that gentleman dirab-
ed; and now his turn is served* like some
others, he is for kicking the ladder away.
You, Sir, [turning to Mr. Speaker] have
set us extr^nely right, as you always do
every thing extremely w^: and I tfiee
we must say, that ewexy gentleman here
is a man oif strict unimrmity and great
honour. I beg I may not be thoo^
ironical. Now, Sir, as to instntcrtions
from our constituents, suppose my instruc-
tions contained a desire tnat I would be
for a Place Bill, suppose I had promised
to be for it, and yet exerted my utmost
abilities against iu Abroad, Sir, we see
many strange things; within these doors,
according to your admonitioay we must
see none. Imagine now. Sir, I had a
young ^ntleman or pupil to advise in the
regulation of his conduct, and he should
apply to me to know by whose advice to
form hv opinion of pubuc affiurs I I should
say to him, * Prithee, hast thou no friend
nor aequuntance whose advice diou <
rely on, and in whoae integrity thou <
confide; apply to thy repreoeatalaves,
surely they will not deceive thee; for if
people cannot trust their reprcaentatives,
whom can they trust.' Parall^ to thb
would be the case of a aiember for a city,
to whom instructions conformable to his
constant advice should be ddivered, he
should receive them, promise to obsene
them, and not to deceive those mho had
chosen him for their representative ; but
shortly after, having altered his own mea-
sures, should call his constituents a parcel
of fools, and totally disr^ard whett thqr
say to him: when one observes diesetmns-
actions, what must Dne say I I should in-
cline to follow the example of die play-
house, and cry out in the phrase or Mr.
John Trott, * Gentlanen, have a care of
your pockets.'
Sir JcJin Bamartf :
Sir; from what has been said by
some gentlemen in the debate, I finesee,
that if our parliaments continue, in time
to come, as complaisant to our ministers as
they have been m time Mst, the fiite of
this question under this aaministration, win
be the same with that which was the fate
of the question vbout reducing oar anay
under the last. The woftfay g^aHeam
m]
DOaU in the Ccrnnmson ike Place BiH.
A. D. 1742.
[got
who wM at the head of our former admi-
Dutratioiii and is now bo deservedly sent to
the other House, had, whilst he was a
countnr gentleman, so strenuously op-
posed jceqping up a numerous standing
anny in time of peace, that after he be-
cime a minister, toough excess of modesty
could never be reckoned among his foibles*
he had not the assurance directly to op-
pose a redaction* No, Sir, durine the
nnt part of his administration he fJways
declared himself for a reduction, as soon
as a fiivourable opportunity should ofter ;
but he always enaeavourea to shew, that
the piesent was not a proper opportunity,
and at last both he and his friends gathered
Sttorance enough to tell ua, that even in
times of the roost profound tranquillity, a
greater number of regular troops was, and
always would be necessary, than Uiat he
had 80 strenaously opposed in the year
1717, when there was tlie highest proba-
bility of our going to be engi^ged in a war
both with Sweden and* Spain.
This, Sir, waa the conduct of our former
ninister widi regard to the annual question
about reducmg our armv, and this, I could
aknost lay a wager, wiU be the conduct
held by oar present ministers with rewd
to the brmging in and passing this Bill.
They cannot directly oppose a Bill which
th^ have upon former occasions so ofVen
aadaostrenuously patronized ; but though
hit session did, yet this session does not,
it leems, a£Ford us a proper opportunity
for applying a remedy to an eviU which,
they tnemselvea allow, has brought £u-
n^ u well as this nation, to the brink of
dtttmction ; and this, I am afi:aid, will be
their wajr of reasoning, as long as they con-
tboe mmisters, or at least till they become
M hardened as their predecessor, which
they may probably do, if they continue as
loDg in newer, and then like him, they will
ftedy oeqlare, that they have actually
changed their sentiments, and that no such
Bill oug^t ever to be passed,
I would not have any thinsp of what I
h«?e said^ Sir, applied to the non. gentle-
Bttn who formerly used to sit very near
Bie, and whose assistance I have often had
b matters which I thought might tend to
the advantage or security of my country.
As for him, I do not doubt his sincerity,
IhU I very much doubt his influence, and
there&re if his majesty has been unjustiv
and wickedly prejudiced against this Bill,
I m afiaidt we must wait a very long time,
tfweresohretowait till those prejudices
bemafvedbyhia inflneace. tfui what-
ever be his xnajesty's wiqr of thinking about
this Bill, it is what we have nothing to do
with. As members of this House we
ought to a^e to every Bill we think ne*.
cessary, without regard to our sovereign's
way of thinking ; because in duty to him,
we ought to suppose, that his sentiments
will always be right ; and if he should re-
fuse the royal assent to a Bill which we.
think absolutely necessary for the security
of our liberties, we ought in the very next,
session to take that metliod for having it
passed into a law, which was taken in kmg.
William's time with regard to the Triennial
Bill« I question much if it was a change,
of sentiments that made king William pass,
that Bill* On the contrary, I am apt U>%
believe, both the king's and his ministers'
sentiments were the same with what tiieyj
had been the preceding session ; butasthe>
Bill was passed by both Houses the very,
•beginning of the ensuing session, and be^*
fore this House had granted the necessary
supplies, that wise king foresaw, that« ia
the humour this House was in, he could
expect no more supplies if he refused to
pass that Bill, and therefore he prudently
complied with the desire of his Commons,
perhaps contrary to the advice of some oC
his chief ministers. Can we suppose hia
present majesty less wise, or less regardful
of the desires of his people ? God fbrbid
we should. At least, I, who am no mi*
nister, but a faithful subject, will not
dare to presume any such thing.
I must tlierefore suppose. Sir, that if the
Bill had been passea last session by the
Qtlier House, his majesty would have
given his assent to it ; for he must be sen-
sible, that it is a Bill designed agiunst the
ministers of the crown, and not against the
crown itself; therefore, I think, we ought
always to be more apprehensive of its not
passin|^ the other House, than of its not
receivmg the royal assent, after it haa
passed both Houses ; and as I hope I may
without derocation suppose the other
House more liable to the influence of
wicked ministers, than we can ever suppose
a wise king to be, therefore, now is the
only proper time for pushing this Bill, be*
cause some, I hope, of our present minis-
ters will promote its being passed by the
other House, which is a favour we cannot»
in my opinion, expect from any of them a
year hence. We must, I think, get such
a Bill as this passed in the infancjr of an
administration, or never. When ministeia
first enter upon their administratuw, they
are iDBOcent, thqr are fond of popularitjy ;
90S] 16 GEORGE IL Debate in the Ommmu on tke Place BSBL [901
but very few of them long continue either
their innocence or fondness. They soon
find the sweets of being able to purchase
those they cannot persuade: to this they
sacrifice their fondness for popularity:
thus they soon become criminal ; and then
their own safety makes it necessary for
them to oppose the passing of any Bill
that may tend not only to prevent their
future, but detect their past corrupt prac-
tices.
But allow, Sir, that it would be decent
in us to suppose his majesty prejudiced
against this Bill by some former misrepre-
sentations, and that he had not of himself
strength of mind enough to remove those
prejudices, without the assistance of some
of his new ministers, we must suppose, that
tiiose ministers have already attempted it,
or that they have not. If they have at-
tempted it, and have not succeeded, we
oustit to interpose, because their advice
will certainly acquire a new weight with
his majesty, when he finds it seconded by
tiie advice of both Houses- of Parliament.
And if those new ministers have not at-
tempted, in six or eight months, what is so
necessary for the happiness of their sove-
reign and security or their country, it must
proceed &ther firom their not having the
boldness, or their not having an inclina-
tion to make any such attempt. If they
have not had the boldness to make the at-
tempt, we ought to pass the Bill, in order
to eive them courage, and to furnish them^
with an excuse for speaking fi^y to their
master upon a subject of such importance ;
and if they have not had an inchnation to
make proper remonstrances upon this sub-
ject, I am sure, we ought to pass the Bill,
in order to force them to perform what is
their duty both to their king and their
country.
To come now, Sir, to the argument
made use of for shewing, that we have not
the same reason for pushing the Bill this
session, as we'^had in the last; they are
chiefly founded upon a supposition, that
we have not only changed men but mea-
sures, which, in my opmion, is a sort of
begging the question; and considering
wmt a small number of new members
have been mtroduced into the administra-
tion, and what a great number of the
former stOl remain in the most eminent
posts of our government, it is a question
^»hich, I believe, very few will grant. But
^ppose this question were granted, and
™t our new ministers are all sincere
mends to this Bill, it is a strong argument
for pushing it during this i
we do not know, but diat these nev mi-
nisters who are friends to ibis BiQ, for I
much question if all of fnem are, msybe
turned out before next session ; and surdy
we have more reason to expect his ma-
jesty's concurrence in this Bill, whDst
there are some gentlemen in his ooDocik
that will dare to advise him right, than we
can have after all such are removed.
Thus, I think, Sir, with re«rd to oar
domestic affidrs, there is no d^ftrence io
their circumstances, but what » an argn*
ment for pushing this Bill, with at least ss
much vigour in this session as we did io
the last ; and with regard to foreign sf*
fiiirs^ I shall readily grant, they now bear
a much better aspect than diey did a
twelvemonth ago; but Uiis, I think, is
owing to the unexpected succeas of the
queen of Hungary's arms, and to the bad
conduct of the French, much more tban
to any change in our a^ninistration. Tbe
ridiculous, 1 may say, treacherous conduct
of the French towards the kingof Pmana,
was the true and original cause of detach-
ing him from their alliance : the riewi of
the Hanover ministers being defiested,
they became his friends, since they saw
they could not with safety or advantage
become his enemies : and the success of
the queen of Hunsary's anns having
drawn M. Maillebois away from their
frontier, left them at liberty to coDcert
new projects. These changes our old mi-
nister, with all his blundering, would, I
believe, have taken advantage of, as well
as the new, and might perhaps have done
it with as great effect, and periiaps with a
less expence to the nation, than tbe new
have done; for though we have aheldy
been put to a monstrous charge, it cannot
be said, that our new ministers have as yet
given any assistance to the queen of Hun-
gary, buUwhat we may suppose tbe fonoer
minister would, in the same circumstances,
have been as read v to give as they ; so
that we cannot i ustly suppose our conduct,
with regard to roreign amurs, to be in the
least altered.
But suppose, Sir, that our new ministen
are to act in the most vigorous manner:
suppose they are to involve the nadoo in
a war with France, is this a reason for our
dekying to take care of our own liberties ?
Shall we sacrifice our own liberties for the
sake of preserving the liberties of Eorope i
Did sucn a thought ever enter into the
heads of our ancestors^ On the oontiary,
Sir, we know, thatin times of the greatest
905] Debase on emniinmng the Troops in Flanders^ A. D. 174f*
foreign dangeri the^ took care to vindi-
cate their domestic liberty, and never
upon that account scrupled a contest with
their sovereign^ if he refused to comply
with their just demands. The memoraole
contest in king Richard the 2d'8 time,
vrhen the F^endi had an army and a fleet
actually ready to invade the nation, will
and ought to be a precedent for all future
parliaments ; and the Triennial Bill itself
vras extorted from king William in die
▼ery heat of a French war. Therefore,
the foreign danger we are m, were it much
gireater Sian it is, can be no argument
against our passing this Bill, even sup-
pose we were sure of its being rejected by
lUB majesty ; but we are so far from being
sure of tms, that we have no reason to
soppoee it. His majesty has always shewn
such a regard for his parliaments, and has
ao lately given us a proof of that regard,
that we neither can nor ought to suppose,
he will reject any Bill which is thought
Becresaary for securing our liberties, not
onl^by tne parliament, but by a great ma-
jority of the people.
Tne cause of the queen of Hungary,
^r, which has been so enqphatically re-
commended to us on this occasion, de-
aervea, I shall grant, our highest resard.
I wish the cause of her House had been
more regarded by us than it seems to have
been for several years past : I wish we had
n^^way contributed to the pulling down
c^the power of that House; and I wish,
now we are again come to our right senses,
it were in our power to give her a more
effectual assistance than we. are able or
likely to give ; but if we have a mind to
p;ive her any effectual assistance, the pass-
ing of such a Bill as this will be the best
way we can take for enabling us .to do bo.
It will reconcile the people to their sove-
reign, and put an end to all the jealousies
now reigning amongst them : it unll render
our government popular, which will re-
store to us a oonfiaence amongst those
who ought to be our allies^ and enable us
to form a confederacy sufficient for sup*
porting the oueen of Hungary, and re-
stoiing the balance of power. Thus, Sir,
in every light we can view this question,
the present is not only a proper, but the
most proper time we can take, for at-
tempting to have such a Bill passed into a
law, ana therefore, I hope, the motion will
be agreed to.
Mr. Careto declared, that as he could
not pretend to enforce the necessity of
[90S
such a Bill, by weightier arguments, than
had been formerly urged by a now right
hon. member, he woiud bee leave to re-
peat them to die House: and thereupon he
read Mr. Sandys's speech made in tne last
session.
Several members, who had upon former
occasions voted for a Place Bill, save it as
a reason for their opposition to this, That
as there had been a Bill passed the last ses*
sion for exdudinff the seven commissioners
of the revenue of Ireland, the seven com-
missioners of the navy and of the victual-
ing offices, the clerk of the pells, and dl
the deputies, inferior officers and clerks of
those commissions, and of the treasury,
exchequer, pells, admiralty, secretaries of
state, and paymaster of the forces, or of
the salt, or of appeals, or of the wine-li-
cences, or of the stamps, or of hackney-
coaches, or of hawkers and pedlars, (two
or three only excepted,) together with the
whole civil and major part of the military
establishment of Minorca and Gibraltar;
there was the less necessity for another.
At length the question being put, it was
resolved m the negative. Ayes 196, Noes
221.
Debate in the Commons on continuing
the British Troops in Fianders.*] De-
cember 6. The House having resolved
itself into a Committee of Supply,
Sir William Yonge presented to the
House, pursuant to their Address, a list
of the general officers, with an account
how many of them are employed and paid,
and where they are at present, witn the
dates of their respective commissions as
such, and of their nrst commissions in the
army, which was referred to the commit-
tee of supply, as was also the estimate of
the charge of his majesty's forces in Flan-
ders ; and of the guards, garrisons, and
other land forces : likewise of his majesty's
forces in the plantations, Minorca and
Gibraltar : Ana of ten regiments of ma*
rines for the year 174S.
Sir William Yonge rose and said:
Sir; as we are now in a conmiit*
tee for considering further of the supplies
f ranted to his majesty, and as the several
Istimates of the expenoe of the Land
Forces to be kept up for the service of the
ensuing year, have been referred to us, it
is now our business to consider those esti-
* Fr^m the London Msgaiine.
flWJ
16 esonoB iL
DebtOe in ike Ccmmcm
[9»
mUbBBp audio graat the proper tappUe^
if we think them necessary K>r the public
safety or service* By the estimates you
will see, what number of men his majesty
thinks necessary for the several services
mentioned, and as the estimates have been
exactly calculated to the lowest farthing,
every gentleman, b^ loddng upon them
will see, what sum or money will be neces*
sary for each respective service. As this
depends upon calculation, and may be
easily calculated by every gentleman pre-
sent, it can admit of no doubt or difficulty ;
therefore the only question that can come
properly under our consideration, is that
rehoing to the number of men necessary
for eacm service ; and in this too, consider**
ing the dangerous situation Europe in ge-
neral, as wdl as this nation in particobr,
is in at present^ I hope, we shall be pi^tty
unanimous. As the nature of the office in
which 1 have the honour to serve his nuu
jesty [SecreUry at War,] makes it moie
particularly incumbent upon me to ex-
plain the nature of the several services
mentioned in those Estimates, and to make
the^ proper motions, I shall b^n with ti^at
which was in course first referred to thecom-
mittee, and which m its own nature standa
most in need of an explanation, I mean
the Estimate of the charge of maintainms
the bodyof troops which his majesty hath
sent to jFlanders, and which he thiiUES ne-
cessary to be kept there for this ensuing,
year at least*
I am sure, Sir, I need not take up much
of your time in explaining the danger to
which the hberttes of Eurape are eamosed,
by the numerous armies which France
has aent into Germany. This danger is so
evident to the whde nation that the coily
complaint seems to be, why his majesty
has not long befere this time given more
eifectual assistance to the queen of Hun-
gary. This complaint, it is true, can
only be made by those who do not know
or consider the difficulties which his ma^-
jesty had to surmount, befiire he could
give any such assistance ; but aa sudi ig-
norant or inconsiderate persons are by far
the most numerous, this, like most other
popdar comnlaints, though without any
BMindation, nas become very generaL
Thank God! most of thqse difficulties are
now removed, and his majesty is left at li-
berty to give more openly, and, I hope,
n^ora effectually, an assistance to that
wapannimous princess. I am fiur from
Mymg, I am &r from suppodng^ that
his majesty has it in his view, to restore
the House' of Austria to as- great power
and splendor as it was lately posceaBcd oC
Thisunot,! think, necessary for seoming
the balance of power, and I doubt mu^
if he could get any one (Mentate in Ea*
rope to join with him in such a project;
but it is certainly necessary for us, and
for most of the other potentates of £u-
rope» to prevent the House of Augtris
bemg too mudi reduced, and in particidsr
to prevent ita beinff in the poirer of
France, by means of the troubles whidi
she has excited in Germany, to makesnf
addition to her own already too exkBuift
dominionSt
This, Sir, is the gseat danj;er Eqropo k
at present exposed to; this is the danger
which we are, if possible, to prevent, wui
ill this we shall probably get most of the
potentates of Eurme to join with us.
Can we suppose^ Sir, that France has
been at sudi vast expoioe of bk>od snd
treasure, merely for the sake <^tbe Home
of Bavaria ^ Can we suppose^shehasno
private view of getting some addition to
her own dominions? She may declare^
she may protest, she may aweary she bai
no such private view; but late expoienoe
must convince us» that there is no trust to
be put in such protestations. In the lait
war she got Lonain, notwithstsodiog s
most solemn protestation at the boning
of that war, <« That hia most christisnmap
jes^ did not desire to enlarge die boundft
of his dominions; and furtiier, that hk
maiesty, content with what he posseiBed,
and for from desiring to turn the 8iiooe»
of his aims to the en&rgement of hie bor-
ders, did not scruple to declare solemnly,
that he had it not at aH in view to make
conquests, nor to keep settlement^ wliefe-
in the safety of the Germanic tenitom
might be concerned.'* Yet, Sir, notwith-
standing thia solemn and express dedan*
tion, as soon aa the emperor was foioed,
by the neutrality of the Dutch, to subaiit
to FVench terms, his most christian mar
jesty appnqprtajted to himself the wlude
dmninions of Lonain, some of wfakh are
within the territory ot the Germaue
body ; and all the German territories ca
this side the Rhine became tbersiiy ex*
posed to an immediate invasion, ^^
ever France should be prompted by to
ambition, interest, or resentment, to inf
vade diem.
This, Sir, may shew us, how muck
the declarations of France are to b^
trusted lo; and if the queen of Hun-
gary should he again djaposseawd of Bo*
909] M MUinmng the BtUuh Treops in Flanders. A. D. 174<«
[910
hemiay and so much deserted, or m^ fee-
bly assisted, which is much the same,
by her allies, as to be forced to submit
to such terms as France should prescribe,
can we suppose, that in order to hft?e
Behemia, and thereby a vote in the
electoral college, restored to her, she
would not yield up the Austrian Nether*
hods to France? Can we suppose, that die
emperor would not agree to such an ex-
duunge, if in lieu of Bohemia he should
have the Tirol and Trentine, and all the
Austrian dominions in Swabia, secured
to him by the cession of the oueen of
Hungary, and the guarantee of France ?
Can we suppose, that Spain or Sardinia
would oppose such a treaty, if a part of
thejMilanese should be ghren to me lat-
ter, and the rest, together with the
Mantuan, and with Parma and Placentia,
to the son of the queen of Spain, now
married to a daughter of France ? The
Dutch, it is true, woidd then have rea-
son to repent c£ the late and present
pusillanimity of their councils ; but durst
thej attem^to oppose such an exchanse?
Would not they be glad to do as they
did in the year 1700? Would not they
be forced to approve, in the most solemn
manner, of those usurpations and breaches
of &ith in the French, in order to get
their troops back, who as they were in
1700, would then be impoundled in the
heart of Flanders, and aestitute of any
communication with their own country?
Could we then propose to form a confede-
ncj agamst the power of France ? Could
we be sure of being able to defend our-
selves?
We may talk. Sir, of our being an
island: we may nW boast of the superio-
rity 1^ our naval power : we may now in
> great measure depend upon it as a secu-
rity against our beine invaded ; but in this
■tate of things, which Europe may proba-
bly be redu<^ to, if we do not powerfully
interfere, I am afraid we shall not long
have reason to boast of the superiority
of our navy. If France were again in
possession of the Netherlands, and freed
from all apprehensions of an attack by
land, she would certainly apply herself
with the utmost diligence and application
to the increase of her navy, ana might in
& very few years be able to fit out a most
formidable squadron : we know what
powerful squadrons she fitted out in king
WOliaro's time; and in how many sea
engagements victory stood for some time
in suspencoy though we had at that time
both the Spaniards and Dutch to assist
us; thouffh France had not then near
such a trade, or such a number of seamen
as she has now: though she wasithen
obliged to keep up numerous land armies,
to carry on the war, or to defend herself
in Flanders, in Spain, in Italy, and upon
the Rhine ; and though she was then in
possession but of a very small part rf the
jLow Countries. Have we not then great
reason to apprehend her becoming supe-
rior at sea, ii every one of these drcum*
stances should be altered in her favour,
especially if in her war against us she
should be assbted by Spam, whieh pro-
bably would be the case, and we wimout
any one friend or ally tliat dared to give
us the least assistance. ^
When we consider these events, which
are at least possible, and, in my opinion.
Sir, highly probable, we must be con-
vinced of its being absolutelv necessary
for his majesty to form a considerable army
in Flanders, m order at least to prevent
its being in the power of France, to model
out the kii^oms and provinces upon ^e
continent of Europe, according to her
good-liking, and to take what part of them
she pleases to herself. This, instead of
leading us mto the war now carrying on
in Germany, may prevent its becoming
necessary for us to engage in it ; because
when France sees that we are resolved to
interpose in the present contests in Grer-
many, and have a numerous army i^n the
contmentto protect such of the potentates
of Europe as shall join with us m defence
of pubhc liberty, or even to carry the
war into her own dominions, in case by
her conduct she should force us to do so^
she will then set bounds to her ambitious
views, and will submit to such terms of
peace as may be thought proper for re-
storing the balance of power, and esta-
blishing it upon a solid foundation.
The very arrival, Sir, of our troops in
Flanders has already had a great and good
efiect. Both the emperor and France are
already become much more moderate in
tlieir demands, and have offered to restore
the peace of Germany upon conditions
which a few months ago they would have
rejected with indignation. Therefore
every one must, I think, approve of his
majesty's having sent a body of his troops
thither : no man can suppose, that a less
number would have been sufficient for
the purposes designed; and every onb
must anee, that they ought to be kept
there tOl those purposes are fully answer-
911] 16 GE0B6E 11.
cd. For this reteon, I need not, I think,
take up any more of your time upon this
particiilar branch, but as serenu other
branches of public expenoe are this day
to come under our consideration, and as
the motion I am now to make, will con-
sequently be followed by sevmd others,
now I am up, I shall beg leave to explain
• little the other Esttmites this day re-
ferred to us, and to shew the necessity of
each. As we are now in an open war
with Spain, and as we have now, I may
say openly, undertaken to set bounds to
the ambitious views of Firance, both these
powers will bertainlv watch for, and as cer-
tainly enlirace the first opportunity for dis-
turbmgourdomestic tranquillity, and there-
fore we ought now to be more cautious
than ever of affording them any oppor-
tunity for this purpose. As we have now
a sea force superior to any that both these
powers unit^ together can send against
us, we can trust to it for our ddence
against any formidable and foreseen invap
aion, but we cannot trust to it for pre-
venting a small, sudden and unlocked for
invasion ; and though a small number of
troops actually landed in any part of Bri-
tain or Ireland could not pretend to make
a conquest of either island, yet consider-
ing the great number of diiBafiected per-
sons we have still amongst us, even the
landing of a small number of foreign troops
might very much disturb our domestic
tranquillity, if we had not a sufficient num-
ber mr^ular troops to send against them
at their first landii^. If they should be
allowed time to numdh from mie place to
another, and therd>y affivd the disaffected
not only time but an opportunity to join
them, their army might be so encreased
as to involve us in a civil war amongst
ourselves, and before we could extricate
ourselves out of this domestic danger,
Spain might have an cmportunity to con-
quer or destroy some or our best colonies
in the West Indies, and France to com-
pel the queen of Hungary, and all the
other powers of Europe, to submit to such
terms as she should prescribe; so that at
this critical conjuncture, unless we have
a number of troops sufficient to rqpel an
invadinff enemy, at, or soon after their
first landing, a small invasion may be as
fotal in its consequepces as the most for-
midable and most successful invasion at
another time; because as soon as the
French and Spaniards had reduced the
potentates of Europe to their terms,
laU invasion would certainly be
0
Debaie in the Commtmi
{912
foDowed by an invasion wfaidi we^ with
all our power either by sea or land, could
neither prevent nor repeL
Thus, Sir, every gentleman most per-
ceive, that in thepresent critical sitoatiott
of the affiurs of Europe, it is more neces-
sary to keep a great number of troops at
home, than ever it was upon any fonner
occasion ; and yet such is his majesty'i
regard for the ease of his people, ss wiQ
appear by the Estimate, that he desires
but a very few more than was thought
necessary the first year of his reign, and
not so many as was thought necessarj in
the year 17S5.* But besides the neces-
sity of keeping a large body of troops at
home for securing our domestic tranqoillity
at this dangerous conjuncture, his majestj
may perha^ find it necessarv to send a
few more of his troops abroad ; and if this
should happen, which is not improbable,
we ought to be provided with a fewmore
regular troops than are absolotelv neces-
sary to be kqpt at home, eqiedaily if we
consider, that it is every day becomio^
more and more difficult to raise new regi-
ments, or even to recruit or augment ue
old, than it was heretofore; for in this
country, the government cannot do as it
does in France: it cannot compel meo
to enter into the service of their coontrj,
or to draw lots for that purpose.
From these circumstances, Sk^ I hope,
it will be generally agreed, diat the num-
ber of troops proposed by the estimate for
guards, garrisons, and outer purposes, re-
lating to Great Britain, is the least num-
ber that can be thou^t sufficient for that
service ; and with r^ard to the forces to
be mamtained in Minorca, Gibraltar, and
America, as the number is not proposed
to be augmented, I think, I need ssy no-
thing for explaining, or for shewing the
necesuty of that expence ; for surely no
man would be mad enough to advise dimi-
nishing the number and stroogth of an^of
those garrisons in a time of such foreign
danger. For the same reason, I think I
need not say much upon the marine esti-
mate, since the estimate does not pr<»>oie
that they should be augmented, and no
man can suppose, that thev are less neces-
sary, or that the same number is not neces-
sary for the ensuing year, that was thought
nec^sary for the year now near expiriog.
For if a sudden rupture cdiould happen be-
tween us and France, it will be impossible
* The number of forces for the year 1738,
was Sft,955, for the year 1736, UtJ4A.
91S] 9n eoniinmng the Brkitk Troopi in Flanders. A. D. 1742.
[914
for lift to get near a tufficient number of
seamen to man the great number of ships
of war we shall be obliged to fit out for
squadrons, convoyt, cruizers, and guard-
ships, without putting an entire stop to
our mercantile navigation. It will be ne*
oessary for us to put as many marines on
board erery ship of war, as the nature of
the sendee will admit of; and if this
shoirid happen, double the number of ma-
rines now proposed will scarcely be suffi-
cient; but as to this his majesty trusts to
the wisdom, affection, and justice of his
parliament, not doubting but that they will
enable him to take such measures as may,
upon any new emergency, appear to be
necessary for the puUlc service.
Having now. Sir, explained, in as few
words as possible, the nature and necessity
of the several branches of public chaige
which, in consequence of the estimates
referred to the committee, must this day
come under our consideration ; and having
in particular shewn the wisdom and expe-
diaicy of our keeping such a body of
troops in Flanders as has been lately sent
there, I shall conclude with a motion to
resohre," That the sum of 5S4,768/L 53. be
granted to his majesty, for defraying the
charge of 16,859 effective men (commis-
sion and non-commission officers included)
to be employed in Flanders, for the year
17i3/* and after this motion is agreea to,
vAadif I hope, it will without opposition,
I shaU then take the liberty to make such
other motions as of course arise from the
other estimates this day referred to the
consideration of the committee.
Mr. John Philips .-
Sir; I have not been long a mem-
ber of thia House, and how short a time
She decreed me I do not know : but
1 1 have the honour to sit here, I am
determined to apeak my mind freely, and
to declare my aversion to a standing army,
an aversion not taken up on any distaste
or distrust of the officers that have the
command of it ; because I believe them to
be men of great honour and abih'ties, but
fbonded on a maxim I have early imbibed,
that a standing army is absolutely incon-
sistent with the liberties of Great Britain.
Our naval force is our natural strength,
8Qd by means of that we have in former
feigns been the terror of Europe. I would
not be Understood to mean, that we are to
bave no troops at all : a small number may
perhaps be always necessary for guards
«kd garrisons at home, and in time of war
[VOU XIL]
a larger number to be sent abroad. The
ouestion now before you is. Whether you
snail grant 594,768/. Bs. for maintainmg
16^859 men to be employed in Flanders ;
but as the hon. gentleman who made you
this motion, opened to you the whole num«
ber of national troops proposed to be em«
ployed this year, I snaO beg leave to con-
sider them altogether, and that under two
heads : the necessity of the troops, and
the ability of the nation to maintain them.
The number of national troops proposed
to be employed is 68,246, viz. 16,859 in
Flanders: 28,610 forguards and garrisons
at home and in the Vfett Indies : 1 1 ,727»
in the phmtations, Minorca, and Gibraltar;
and 11,550 marines. The necessity of
keeping up so great a number of troopa
must arise from some danger the nation
would be in without them ; for no other
argument can justify the measure. If we
are in any dsinger from Spain, the only
nation we are at war With, (and which war
we seem to have forgot) surdy a much
leas number of land forces woula enable us
to carry on that war, while we have so
many ships in commission, and 40,000
seamen to man them ; and it is by our
naval force only, that we can humble ihat
haughty nation : 12,000 men are sufficient
for guards and garrisons at home, while
we have so powmol a fleet to^ defend ua
from invasions. I am an enemj to the
power of FVance, though we are m no inn-
mediate danger from her, and I think it
the interest of England to maintain the
balance of power in Europe, and to assist
the queen of Hungary, though I much
question whether that wiH turn the scale
in our fitvour; but let us not be knighta
errant on the occasion, and send an army
on the continent to combat the French
without any allies. (For, I do not find we
have any, the Dutch being too cautious to
come into our measures.) Such a step
may prove very fatal to us, and draw on
lasting inconveniences. The best methoA
to assist the queen of Hungary, is with our
money : she does not want troops, but the
means to raise them, which she can do at
a quarter of the charge that it will cost ua
to send our own troopa to her ateistance,
considering the great expence of trans*
ports, and the difficulties we shall find in
providing ammunition, provisions, and re*
cruits in a foreign country. But I am
aware, we shall be told, that we must give
her money too. The ^ueen of Hungary
is certainly a gallant pnnoesa, and a veiy
fine woman ; but we are not therefore te
915] 16 GEORGE Jh
spend all we have upon her, and become
bankrupts in her service* Let us have
some regard for Old Englandi our native
country, and not suffer her to fall a sacri-
fice to any foreign interest whatsoever;
which brings me to consider the ability of
^e nation to maintain so great a number
of troops*
As evecy nation is circumscribed within
certain bounds, so there is a certain degree
of expence that every nation can with
safety bear, and should never exceed; and
it is the opinion of some very wise men,
that whenever the expences of Great Bri-
tain exceed five millions a year, I mean
the ordinary expences voted by parlia-
ment, she soes beyond her strengtn^ and
consequently must falL During all the
last war in queen Anne^s time, when we
had so great an army on the continent, and
80 many allies, and contracted a great
debt, our expences, one year with another,
did not amount to 5,300,000^ In the year
1741, our expences were above 5,267,000^
Last year above 6,137,00tf. The troops
now proposed (I mean the 63,000 men)
will cost us above 1,655,0002. which, with
the seamen and other expences of the
year, must come to above six millions.
The nation is in debt 48,915,0002. (which
debt is every day increasing) and ffroans
under a heai^ load of taxes ; and tnough
many gentlemen in this House may not
feel the weight of them, the poor daily do,
and call aloud for redress. These are se-
rious things, and deserve the mature con-
sideration of parliament. For my own
part, I shall always think it my duty, while
I sit here, to ojqpose laying on any of my
fidlow-subjects a greater biuden-than they
are able to bear ; and therefore shall hear-
tily give my negative to the maintainmg
so great a number of unnecessary troops.
Mr. Sandys :
Sir ; I find the gentlemen who op-
pose this qi|estion carefiilly, I shall not
say artfully, drop the present necessity we
are under, and talk only of the danger and
expence of maintaining and keeping up a
great number of land forces, anid ttie in-
ability of the naticHi to support that ex-
pence. I have as great an aversbn to a
numerous standing army, kept up in time
of peace, as anv ^tleman can have, and
shall readily admit of the maxim, that a
numerous standing army, kept up in time
of peace, is, absolutely inconsistent with
the liberties of Great Britam. But I have
'^ion to a standing army in time df
MMateitiUgCammmm [910
mr, however nomeroos it ww be,^
vided it be no more numerous thaa ii ne-
cessary fev putting a happy and speedy
end to the war; nor can I think, that a
numerous standing arm^ in time of war i»
any way inconsistent with the libeitieB oC
Great Britaior especially when a consi-
derable part of tliatanny is sent abroad to
the assistance of our allies, or to carry the
war into the boweb of our enen^s coim-
S, in order thereby to compel them to
»mit speedily to reasonable termg of
peace ; for as this is a trading nation, it k
our business to put an end to every war as
soon as possible, that we may the sooner
have an opportunity to carry on our com-
merce without interruption. When we
happen to be at vrar wUh a trading natioD,
we may, it is true, by means of oar fleet,
put a speedy end to the war; because if
we conquer them at sea, we may put almost
an entire stop to their trade, mich will of
course soon torce them to submit to nei-
sonable terms ; but when we happen to be
at war with a nation that does not much
depend upon trade, we must some way or
other employ a land army against them,
otherwise the vrar may become etenal;
for we can never do them so much harm
at sea as they can do us, nor can we reap
any benefit by the war, whereas the^ wiD
be yearly reaping a benefit firom it by
means of their privateers; so that unksi
we can fidl upon some way of attackiog
them with a land army, the war must en
dure for ever, or we must at last submit to
purchase peace firom them upon their own
terms.
I vrould not therefore. Sir, have geDtl^
men conceive such an utter aversion to a
land army, as to resolve never to hare or
employ such an army upon any occasioo
whatever; and if the land army now pro-
posed be necessary for restoring peace to
ourselves as well as Europe, the measuxe
must be complied with, however ezpeosiTe
it may be, however unable we may thiok
ourselves to support the expence; for, I
hope, we are not yet reduced to such po-
verty as to submit tamely to put on tb
chains either of France or Spain. I sw
grant, Sir, the nati<ni is incumbered with
a great load of debts, and the peoole groan
under the burden of their taxes : out nm
whence arose this load of debt ? To what
is this burden of taxes owmg? ^7'^*
to the very spirit which now prerailB, and,
I am afraid, always will prevail: an uu-
verial cry (rf! poverty when any contrib*^
tioni are desired for the public service. ^
917] OR continuing the BrUtA Troops in Flanders. A. D. 1742*
[918
bdiere. It will be ^nutted, that our ances-
tors in Mag William's and queen Anne's
wars were as ridi as we are now, and that
tlie nation was then able to raise yearly as
great a nublic revenue as it does now. If
ttiey haa done so, we should now have had
BO debts to nay c^ nor any taxes but such
as might be round necessary for the current
service of the year; for the nation now
laiaeB more yearly than ever was expended
in any one year during either of those wars,
as may easily be computed byany one who
condaers the present state of our public
revenue. If we reckon the civO list reve-
nue at 800|00(M. the land and malt tax at
£,700,000^. and the funds appropriated to
the payment of the principal and interest
of our public debts at about S,^0O,O0(tf.
we shall see, that this nation now raises
6,700,000^. yearly, which, I believe, is
oqvud CO ^e whole public charge of any one
year of these wars ; at least, I am sure, it
» a great dei^ more than the public charge
viras dnrine that time ' coraraunibus annis ;'
and thefemre, if the people in those days
would have agreed to raise yearly as much
as they misht have done, the annual reve-
nue vrould have answered the annual
duu^, and we should now have had nei-
ther interest nor principal to pay to any
public creditor, and consequently might
nave hcdd die balance of power in Europe
with more ease and steadmess than we can
do at present.
Bat sudi. Sir, is the humoinr of the peo-
ple in all countries and all ases ; every one
desires to live at ease and in safety, hot
every one is averse towards contributing
faia proportionable share towards that pub-
lic expence, which* is absolutely necessary
fyr securins his ease and safety. The bulk
of mankind can see no danger but what is
directly before their eyes, and consequent-
ly are unwilling to contribute to the charge
oif guarding against a danger which they
cannot see; and as it is at all times po-
pular to appear against taxing or burden-
mg a people, those who see the danger
too often prefer their love (itwpuiBntyto
the love of their country. The danger
we are in at present w so near, that I can*
not thmk diere is one gentleman in this
House that does not seeitt the House of
Austria is die Uealegon of Great Britain;
for if ever that House should be destroyed
few the flames of a war lifted up by
ranee and l^in, Great Bntain wilt cer-
tainly be the next, becatise we are next in
power. HoBand may be at last consumed,
bat the eld Spanish maximi That the only
way to come at Holland is to pass through
England, is now well known both at the
courts of France and Spain ; and both
those courts are sensible, that in order to
subdue England the^ must first reduce
the House of Austna, so as to render it
unable to give them any diversion upon
the continent.
Jam proximus ardet
• Ucalegoo,'
ought therefore to be, it is mostreasonahly
the cry all over Britain, and in every man^i
mouth that is not blinded or biassed by
some private view of interest, ambition, or
resentment. That this nation will be the
next sacrifice to the ambition of France is
apparent, not only from the reason of
things, but firom the behaviour of France
immediately before the death of the late
emperor. Can we have dready forgot
their sending their squadrons to the
West-Indies ? Can wq now doubt of the
orders those squadrons had, or that they
would not have put those oiders in execu-
tion, if the hurricanes and storms they met
withi together with the excellent disposi-
tion made by our admiral then In the
West-Indies, had not disabled them from
attempting the scheme they had projected i
Can we expect that Spain will submit to
reasonable terms of peace with us, whilst
she sees us so indolent or so cowardly as
not to dare to oppose or interrupt her
schemes of conquest in Italy ? Can we hope
that the French will not join openly with
her against us, after they nave reduced the
Sueen of Hungary to their terms, and mo-
eUed out Europe to their liking ? Can
any man balance in the least which to
chuse, to enter into a war with France and
Spain, whilst die fiite of Europe is yet in
suspence, and we may depena upon the
assistance of many, perhaps most of the
potentates thereof; or to enter into a war
with those two powerful monarchies after
they have made themselves masters or at
least arbiters of Europe ? Sir, it b not the
cause of the qu^n of^Hungary alone I am
now pleading : it is the cause of Great Bri-
tain as well as hers. If it had not been for
the accident of the emperor's death, we
should have had FVance as well as Spain a
declared enemy long before this time.
We had so much neglected, deserted, and
disobliged that prince, that France thought
she might depend upon his not giving us
any assistance, and therefore she was pre-
paring to declare war against us, or to act
m sudi a manner as mi^t oblige us tode-
919]
16 GEORGE IL
dare against hen But the accident of that
priDce's death made her suspend her ipea*
sures with regard to us, and the behaviour
of the king rf Prussia, with the obstinacy
of the court of Vienna, in which they were
too much encouraged by us, soon con*
vinced her, that she had now got the long
looked for opportunity of redudng the
power of her ancient rival, the House of
Austria. The character of our then admi-
nistration was such, that she had reason to
think she might be able to cajole us, till
she had perfected her schemes upon the
continent of Europe, and that t$en she
might with more safety and greater cer-
tainty of success resume those measures
with regard to us, which she had suspedded
upon the accident of the emperor's death :
1 say sumended, for no man in his right
senses wiU suppose, they were dther al-
tered or laid aside. By the late change in
the administration, I hope she will find
herself disappointed as to us: she cannot
now hope being able to cajole our admi-
nistration, and, 1 hopci she will find herself
as little able to cajole the nation. So far
as I am able, her most secret views shall
be laid open to the people of Great Britain,
and from thence, ihope, they will be con-
vinced, that in supporting the cause of the
aueen of Hungary they support their own,
that in assistmg to extinguish the fire which
now threatens destruction to her, they
may, and,^ I hope, will extmguish those
flames which would certainly next con-
sume themselves.
From what I have said. Sir, the neces-
sity of our entering into the war must ws-
pear. If the French and Spaniards ao
not depart from their present ambitious
schemes, and especially, if the latter do
not agree to do us justice with regard to
our navigation and commerce in the Ame-
rican seas, we must enter into the war, or
we roust submit to receive laws from
France in Europe, in Africa, and the East
Indies ; and from Spain in the West In-
^es. In a case of such pressing neces-
sity, I am surprised to hear gentlemen talk
of the poverty of the nati<Ni, or its inabUity
to support such a necessary war. I hope
there are no foreigners in our gallery, or if
there are, that they may not believe what
such gentlem^ say. At least, I hope, it
will not be believed at any foreign court in
Europe ; for if it were, it would encourage
the enemies of public liberty to persist m
the i>rosecution of their ambitious and ty«
rannical schemes; and it would d^earten
the firiends of piiblic liberty so as to pre*
JDstolf imOe Cmmm$ [m
vent their enterinff into ai^ vieasom with
usforitapresenraboou Tli(Bnefore,iftlMis
gentkmen have really audi a contonptibls
opinion of their country's ability, 1 wisb
they would keep it to themealvis, becsme,
I am sure, they can do no service by pub-
lishing it; for by endeavouiing biave^to
preserve the liberties of Europe, and soo-
cumbing in the brave attenye, we can be
in no worse condition than we shall be by
sitting still, and tamely looking on till we
see them overwhelmeo* If we must be-
come a prey to our enemiea whenever tbey
shall pmse to attempt making us sq» tlie
leaner we are» the less worth their whils
win they think it to make the attempt;
for few conquerom ever thought of con-
quering a country where nothing wai to
be expected but brokm banes; andthere-
fore, I think| we do better, and sJnll be in
less danger by emaciating ounehres still
further in making a brave defence whOit
we have some view of sncccm, than by
battening in ease and tranquillity tfll our
enemies nave pat it out of oar power to
defend ourselves with any tolerable view
of success.
But thank God! Sir, our mattenare
not yet come to this pass : we have stiQ
many and great resouroes : we have maiiy
rich men amongst us; and from the nstars
of our constitution, and the rqgard thst
has always been shewn to parliamentary
fiiith, we shall have the treasures trf'all tli9
monied men in Europe at our serrioe.
These will still enable us to carry on a vi-
gorous war for many years; and I wonder
to hear sentlemen of many hundreds, m
thousands a year, who pay but four du^
lings, periiaps but two shillings m tho
pound, to the public service^ for securutf
their enjoyment of the odier 16 or 18; I
say, I wonder to hear such gentlemen COOK
plauaing of the poverty and ioabili^ of
their countiy. Would not th^, would not
any man of common sense give the 16
shillings for the public service^ rather thsa
subject the whole to the aibitraiy will of
a French monarch i In such dwe I shsQ
grant, they wouki be obligsd to dismiii
many of the footn^en^ ooadmien) coobsnd
other men servants th^ now km ^
pomp or shew ; but such Mow|i oeoU not
want business, for most p£ thepi wouU
make excellent recruits Sat our Wfmj ^
navy ; and if mounted mpon their naaBtsil
coach horses, they would make good disr
go<«s, or if mounted upon their reaaia^
riding, or huntmg horses, tbay ireul4 vni^
fine Quwrs fordistirwigitto jmm ^
9S1] on conHnuit^ Hm 9riH»h Troops in Flanders. 4* 9* 174&
our eseny* These tbiitts, Hift Uve, ere
dbmal for a modern pofite gentlemaa to
think of 9 but they are what» f hope, eveiy
gentlemea in Englaod wodd frankly sub-
mit to, rather tbn see himself and his
country enslaved by any foreign power
whatsoever.
We are therefore far from being in such
poor OF desperate circum^t^idces as have
been represented in this debate* and as to
what wiso men ma^ have said| that if ever
England should raise above five millions a
year she must be ruined, #xp?nence has
shewn the. contiary ; for we have raised
above five millions a year for this forty
yean, and are not yet ruined : nay the
nation would have been in the most
flourishing circumstances, if a right use
had been made of the money raised yearly,
and proper care taken to protect and im*
prove our trade* In a country where the
land revenue is reckoned to amount to
twenty millions a year, and the revenue of
the trading and monied people to at least
three times as much, it is, m my opinion,
ridiculous to sajr, that such a country can-
not spare to raise five millions a year for
the public charge without ruining itself.
1 am &r from supposing, that if our public
debts were onoe paid off, it would be ne-
cessaiy for us to raise such a sum yearly
for our ordinary expence ; but upon ex-
traordinary occasions we might certainly
raise that sum, and a ^reat deal more;
and therefore, if those wise men mean anv
thing, they must mean, that Enffland will
be ruined dt a bad government, if it should
ever be under such an unfirojj^ one, as to
make the raisine of above five millions a
year necessary ror defraying the ordinary
expence 4>f the government in time m
peace. In this I shall agree with those
wiae men, because such a ridiculous go-
Temosen^ if it continued for any time,
would ruin us by its bad conduct, as well
ashpits profusion of the public treasure.
But is this the case at present ? Can it be
i^d, the government desires five millions
a year, or much above thehalf of that sum
for its ordinary occasions? We are ac-
^^J engaged in one war, and like to be
Mgaged in another of a much more dmi-
gsrous and exp^msive nature: we must
provide for b<Kh ; • and this makes such
large grants Deoeasaiy as are now re-
9^^; so that this opinion, were it right
m every particular, is oo vrays applioahle lo
^ present oasew
I hepe geiiftlomen are now convinced,
that it M i^hitdy neoessaQr fiorua tp io-
[an
terftre so fiir m the ptaaent troubles of
Europe, as to present its beinff in the
power of France and Spain to dictate to
all the other powers upon the continent;
and from what I have .said. Sir, I hope
gentlemen will have the plc«laiire of being
convinced, that we are not yet reduced to
such a despicable condition as has been re>
presented, but that we ma^ still make a fi-
l^re in Europe, and by a right conduct and
vig<Hrou8 measures force tibe most daring
to limit or. desert their ambitious schemea
of tyranny and oppression. For Uiis puiu
pose it was absolutely necessary for his
majesty to form an army upon the conti-
nent, and it is necessary to keep that amy
there, till we have accomplished these
views that are so salutary for our .own
preservation, as well as for the preeerva^
tion of Europe, and our ancient and most
certain alljr» the House of Austria. I say
most certain> Sir, because there is no one
prince in Europe, whose interest can so
constantly and so invariably coincide with
the interest of Great Britam, as that of the
House of Austria. Even the Dutch we
cannot naturally be so sure of; because
many disputes may arise between them
and us, about traide and navigation, or
they may conceive jealousy of our naval
power; but between the House of Austria
and us no contest of any consequence, no
jealousy can ever happen, unless one or
other be influenced by foreign, vreak, oc
wicked counsels. Can we desert such an
ally in the time of such danger ? Is it not
our interest to preserve her power as en-
tire as possible i Her own arms has al-
ready done a great deal : let us assist her
to do the rest. His majesty has resolved
to do so : in this he is seconded by the
voice of his people : and, I hope, upon
this and every like occasion, he will nnd
himself seconded by the voice of his par-
liunent*
Mr. John Bance :
Sir; although the hon. gentleman
who opened this debate was plei^ed to tell
us, that the number of troops for each re-
spective service was the only question that
could properly come this day before us,
yet I must beg his pardoHU fior thinkins that
the quantum of tne sum demanded for
each, is a question which ought hkewise
jipon this occasion to have been brought
under consideration ; and if the estimates
had been first referred to a select com*
mittee, according to the method which
haa been oftea proposed^ a|id I wish
9S8]
16 6EOR6B II.
was pat m pfaedoe, I believe,
rery material objections might have
been found to several of the articles in
each particular estimate. As this has
not been done, it is not to be expected
that flentlemen should enter part^ulariy
into this question; but in general I nmist
chsenre, that we have always had, and have
now too great a number of officers in our
land army, and a much greater number
than is usual in any country of Europe
except France, whore thdr oBcevs cost
them very litde; for their colonels are
generally men of fortune who spend their
own estates in the service of their country,
and the pay of their subalterns is handy
3ual to that of our Serjeants and corpo-
Is. Then as to our marines, though
they are really as properly marching re*
gtments as any other in our service, the
forming them into regiments was at first
absolutely wrong, and, I remember, was
etrongly objected to; but since thev are
to remain a burden upon us, I thmk, we
cmght to make it as hffht as possible, by
ridding ourselves of au the bdd-officers
and captains, and especially their particu-
lar paymaster, who has a salary, which, I
am sure, it is not necessary for the public
to pay, let them be continue in what
shape you will. It may be said, that this
aalury is paid out of the deductions usually
made on that account fo>m all the regi-
ments in our service ; but now we have
such a great number of forces on foot, I
hope our miiusters are more frugal than to
SVe the whole to the paymaster : I hope
^ ey do with him, as lias been done, ever
since Cromwell's time, with the paymas-
ter of the navy, which is to allow him a
certain salary, and apply the surplus to
the public service.
With regard to our marine paymaster,
Sir, I really do not know wheUier his sa^
lary be paid out of these deductions, or
out of the 4,500/. charged in this estimate
for contingencies ; but let it come from
whence it will, it is paid by, and may be
saved to the public, by having our ma-
rines paid either by tlie treasurer of the
navy, or the paymaster of our forces ; and
as tne gentleman who now most worthily
fills the latter post [Mr. Henry Pelham,]]
would not, I am sure, desire to sink in his
own pocket such a large sum of public
money as these deductions now amount to,
being above 40,0002. a year, I think an
account of them, if they are still made,
ought to be laid yearly before parliament.
As I am upon this suqect, I must likewise
Debate in the Cmimme
take notice of the savii
been lately made, by Ae great number of
officers and soldiers that werekilled, or
died in the West Indies. In ordimffv
cases, Sir, this sort of saving is network
the while of parUaments to inquire into;
but when regiments are, 1 maj ssy, Ooct-
dione oum^ and such a long time before
they are or can be recruited, this sanng
mustbecomeso considendileastobeweS
worth the pmiliament's while to inquire
into it; especially considering die dange-
rous use that may be made uj a minister,
of such large sums, when left to his aibi-
trar^ disporal, as must be evident to ererr
sentteman who has read the reports ieft
hst session upon our table.
Hieae thmgs I have thrown oiit, Sir,
only to shew, that we ought to hare mo-
ther question now under our considentioD,
beside that smele one, of the number of
troops prqKMed; and likewise to manifat
to you, how necessary it is to refer theestf*
mates hud before us yeariy to a eekci
Committee, before we take them into our
considerattoa -in this Committee of the
whole House; for if we are obliged b)
enter into the war now carrying on io
Grermany, as the utmost oeconomy and fru-
gality will be necessary, I hope this wiU be
the practice of every fiiture session ; and if
we once begin it, I believe, we shall vm
find good reason for never laying it aside.
Now, Sir, with r^ard to the other ques*
tion, that, I mean, rehiting to the namber
of troops proposed to be kept up for each
respective service, I shall first consider tbe
question in general, and, I beliere, every
one will grant, that for carrying on the war
against Spain, we have no occasion, oor
ought we to keep up sudi a number of
land forces, even supposin|^ we were in ai
free and as prosperous a situation as erer
this nation could boast of; therelbre bj
such a great number of troops being pro-
posed, and eqiecially by our aenfi^ t
great number of them to Flanders, I mist
suppose, that we are to become diareis in
the war now carrying on in Gemuum not
only by sending our money, bat abo by
sending our troops tfaidier, and cobm*
quently the matter now before us wiU torn
diiefly upon this previous questioo, wbe-
ther it be absolutely necessary for » ^^
enterso deeply into the war? The deter-
mination of wnidi is not pretends^ even
by those who have spoke fiir the motion, to
be founded upon any immediate and app*
rent danger, but upon appiriiqpaioosaft
danger wo nay henaafter IM espoaed to.
MS] imcanlbmHgikeSfiiiik IVocpi in Ftanders. A. D. 174f.
[986
Appiefaentions, Sir, are of divert sorts :
there are real aod wdl groimded appie-
beosioDSy theve are imaginaiy apprelieii-
iioQi, and there are Tain and ndicuiouaap-
preheimoai ; and I very much auapect,
that apoa a strict and impartial examina-
tion, the apprehenaions we are now terri-
fied with, will appear to be of the laat sort
Surely we do tiot imagine, that all the
other nations of Europe, except this, are
f<HMl of putting on the yoke of France, and
therefore if none of them will join with us
io supporting the •queen of Hungary, tatis
uribus, as we seem, resolyed to do, we
most suppose, either that all the r^ of
Europe are dull, or that we are mad. It
is something amazing to see the minds of
some amon^t us so very much altered in
M) short a time* When the late emperor
died, and the queen of Hungary, his suc-
cessor, irss attacked by the king of Prussia,
we were so little afraid of the ambitious
views of Frances that we seemed to encou-
rage her in her obsdiiainr with regard to
Pnissia, in order to draw her into a
scheme, which was certainly formed some-
where, for stripping that young monarch
ofa great part of his dominions. Where-
as* if we bad at that time been afraid of
France, we ahould have advised, and in-
tisted upon her givine satisfaction to the
^g of Prussia^ in ot&t to draw him into
a confederacy, which he offered, for get-
tine the duke of Lorrain chosen emperor,
and for guarantying all the rest of the
Austrian donuiiions in the terms of the
Pragmatic Sanction. This would have
prevented its being m the oower of France
to form any schemes, and if it had been
done, I am persuaded, no French army
would ever nave entered Germany, nor
would the doctor of Bavaria either have
been chosen emperor, or have declared
war againat the queen of Hungary. But
by our schemes at that time, we forced
the king of Prussia, contrary to his incli-
nation, into an alliance with France, and
thereby enabled and encouraged them to
form all those designs they have since en-
deavoured to carry into execution a^inst
the queen of Hungary and the liberties of
Germany : nay, we joined with France in
one of die chief of them, which was that
of getting the elector of Bavaria chosen
^peror; and we gave no obstruction to
tbe Spaniards in their first attack upon the
queen of Hungary in Italy.
Thus, when the queen of Hungary was
^ the greatest danger: when Europe was
'i^tbegrei^est danger, we seemed to have
no dread of the designs of Firance; but
now when the king of Prussia has been pro-
voked by the hauebtiness, and I beheve,
the treachery of the French generals, to
desert their alliance, and when the queen
of Hungary, by her good conduct, both in
Germany and Italy, has by herself repel-
led her enemies upon every side, and d}«
liged them to offer peace upon the mode-
rate terms of uHpouidetiSf we have con-
ceived most ternole imprehensions of the
ambitious designs of France. Sir, Uiis
change in our way of thinking, and these
pretended apprehensions, are so evidently
without any avowed foundation, that there
must be something in fettOf there must be
some secret cause which it is not fit the
world, or at least the British world should
be made acquainted with. The hiqypy
events of these last 16 or 18 months, ana
the terms offered by the French last sum-
mer, have so much altered the state of
things in Europe, and have so clearly mi^
nifested, that the French have at present
no designs against the liberties of Europe^
that whatever we do, or attempt to do now
cannot be said to be for the support of the
queen of Hungary, but for extending her
rwer, and lessemng the power of France*
shall ^rant that both these thin^ are
very desirable, but considering our cucum-
stances I cannot grant, that this is a pro-
per time fw us to make the attempt or
that we can reasonably hope, by ounelvea
alone to succeed in it. it may be laudp
able, it may be even prudent for a man in
good health to undertake difficult and dan-
gerous expeditions ; but after he has been
emaciated by a tedious consumptive fever»
he should content himself with sittifig at
home, and thinking only of self-defence^
till his vigour be restored, and his health
re-established. If we had dcme so, we
might have been both strong and healthful
long before this time; but we have been
playing the knight errant of Europe for
many years jMst: nay we have been doing
what even Don Quixote himself never
thought of: we have been setting up wind-
mills, in order to knock them down again*
From the year 1714 to the year 1790, wo
put ourselves to . a monstrous charge^ and
involved ourselves in a war with Spain, in
order to increase the power of the House
of Austria, which we then said the treaty
of Utrecht had left too feeble in Italy:
from the year 1720, Ull verv near the time
of the late emperor's death, we put our-*
selves to a vast exnenoe in pulling down
the power of the House of Austna« and
!ttT] 16 GEORGE II.
nislnff the power of the House of Bomton,
^oogh one of the branches of that House
was, during the whole time of this our
knight errantry in its fiivour, insulting and
hurting us in the most tender part. By
diis conduct the power of the House of
Bourbon has indeed been raised to a dan-
gerous height ; and now we are to in^ve
ourselves in new expence and danger, in
order to pull down this windmill we have
raised, though, like a real windmill, it can
do us no damage, if we do not approach
too near it.
As the power of the House of Bourbon,
especially cokisidering the present union
or the two branches, (which union was
restored and cemented by our kte designs
against the House of Austria) is certamly
greater than is consistent with the safety
of Europe, it is very easy. Sir, for a warm
imagination to raise that power up into a
hid^us phantom ; and when the war first
broke out in Germany, when the queen of
Hungary was forcea to retire to Ptes-
bui^h, and her capital in danger <^ being
besieged, all the terrors we have been
frightened with m this debate, had then
dome foundadoti : at that time we seem-
ed to sit unconcerned, and even then we
had more reason to be so than any of our
ndghbours; for if France had taken that
opportunity, contraiy to her express
declaration, to propose any accession to
her own power, eitner by the cession of
the Austrian Netherlantb, or any of the
Oertnan principalities upon the Rhine, it
would certdidy have alarmed the Dutch
and all Ae princes of Germany : even the
emperor himself woiild have resented such
a breach of faith, and would have been
ready to reconcile himself at any rate with
the queen of Hungarv, in order to form a
confederacy with the Dutch agiunstl^wice.
They would then have been soliciting our
assistance, instead of our being reduced by
our knight errantry to the necessity of
soliciting theirs ; for this will always be
the case, whilst we are the first to take the
alarm, and to involve ourselves iir a war
with France on account of preserving the
bahuice of power.
Rht this reason. Sir, even at the
begMMiing of the wttr, when the liberties of
Europe were in the greatest dstnger, and
the queen of Httngaiy in the ^eatest
distress, it was ndne of our business to
entfer as jpivricipals into 4be war, unless the
Dutch ttikl other powere ef Europe,
^urily concerned with us, had 'agreed to
da the same. And auppose, tfwt they
[998
had been afl Mind to thdr mm imerest
and safety, that France had thereby got
an opportunity to model out Germany
and Italy to her own liking, and to take
the Austrian Netheriands to hertielf : sup-
pose that the Dutdi, for the sakeof gettuig
oome their troops, Ind submitted, and that
all the princes of Germany and Italy had
for that time at least found themselveft
under a necessity of submitting to this
new French model ; can we suppose, they
would all have been really satisfied witn
it ; can we suppose they would tMt have
taken the first Of^ortunity to 6ree them-
selves from the yoke they had by their
blmdness brought theooselvea under?
France must then have kept earnsons and
armies both in Germany and Italy, to hare
preserved this forced submisaioti, or she
must have left them at liberty to rebd as
soon as they found an opportunity. In
either case, can we suppose, that ahe could
have disbanded her land-amues in order
to increase her naval force, so as to render
herself superior to us at sea? Can we
suppose, mat i^n her fitat breseh w^
us, the Dutch, the empire, and perhi^
Spain itself, or at least most of the princes
in Italy, would not have taken that oppor-
tunity to unite together for fireeing tnem-
selves from the yoke ? Sir, it ia my opi-
nion, that the ambition of France can never
deprive us of a powerful alliance nspon the
continent, if ever we should be unjuatty
attacked by her: it is our own conduct
only can deprive us of such an allianoe:
if upon one hand we should appear so
indolent or unsteady, that none of the
powers upon the continent could pot any
trust in our counsds, this mi^t prevent
their involving themselves in a war upon
our account : we might then have reason
to complain, as we did upon our breach
with Spain, of our having no one ally in
the world. On the other hand, if we
should shew ourselves too busy, and pre-
tend to dictate to the other powers of
Europe, in aifiiire we had really nothing
to do with, or perhaps but v^ little, this
might render them cool to our interest :
they might even rejoice to see us a tittle
humbled. Since I am upon this subject,
I must mention another sort of eonduct,
which not only may deprive us of assist-
ance firom any of our allies upon the
continent, bat also render our best and
most natural fi^iends jealous of us, and
that is our shewing too great an attach-
ment to the interest of Uie eledoimte of
Hanoveri and a readiness to eater into
10] M €antittMkig «IU Birkitk ThMfii in Flanders, A. IX 1748.
or punuittg die teaeotment of duK elec*
I lMf«^ 8ir, thdre is ndlhiog of thte at
the boiiw of OUT prtBOtitinea>mt»{ but,
lam alMdp floftie of the pritioetf of Ger-
HMnf , idd petfhopft tile Ihttoh too» have a
ffiipidoii of It; and ihis maliefl them io
ihy of jeitilag with ut in any schetne for
reducing the exorbitant power of Prance*
Tliis I «to iure'Of) that unlen tfael>utch
md the oaiplre» as a body, joift heartily
with 110, wo ealmoiia common prudence
pfopoM to mdettako it It irt by much
loo dangerous for us. In our present cir'>
Miistanoes, t» undertake sodi a scheme,
vicb the sole aftsistanoe of tfie queen of
Haagary \ and as the Rrench have ofer-
sd to witMbttw their troops out of 6cr«
many, and to leave the queen of Hungary
in ponearion of all the «>minions she was
paMSMed rf at tike be^nnmc of the war,
noept what she has yielded up by our
tmdMlieii and at our request, I can see
BoreSMawe had for sending 6ur troops
ts FlgndSfSi modi less for keeping them
these, and sttB a great deal less for taking
loeh a body of H anoferians into our pay ;
ior by the Estimates presented to us last
PHdiijr, we * BOW see, that those Hano*
vmai troops have neither been sent there,
Bor are to be kept there al theexpence of
that eleetorate. May, I cannot as yet
find, that the electorate is, at Its own ex-
pence, to give atw assistaaee either to us
or die queen of Hungary, no not even the
4sOOO men which it standiB engaged to fur-
nish her with by the guaranty of the
I^sgmatick Sanction; so tiiat if any war
heearried on for increasing the power of
the House of Austria at the expence of
France, It most be almost entirely at our
chaige; for conridering how the queen of
Hoflgmry's dominions have been exhaust-
sd, we cannot imagine that she is dble to
bear any tolerable shaife of it.
The diarge. Sir, will conseqoentlj M\
•0 heavy upon this nation, that, were our
orcamstanees much better than they are,
nothing but the greatest and most immi-
nent daaaer shoukl tempt us to undertake
it; and tm is for from being the case as
Ae aflSiffs of Eulrope stand at present. I
have already ^ewn, that had France suC"
cee^fedinthe fondest and highest wiohes
Ae could have at the beginning of the
war, this nadoft couM have been In no
great dabgtr from her utmost efforts, la
the reign of Richard 2, w^ despised het*
tttempis hf se% ftoagfc she was Aea in
[VOL. XII.] .
»n of, or at least had in allianctf
with her, aU Ito seventeen provinces of
the NHherlaods^ and we no one i^y upon
the continent to make a diversion in our
fovour. In queea EUoabeth^ time, we
withstood the attempU of France and
Spain, though the latter by itself alone
was ai that Cimo redly superior to us in
naval force; and can we now te so terri*
fied with the apprehensions of the Frendi»
wheir wo have such a naval force, Itel
Fhmce and Spain together could not,
with a ten years uninterrupted prepara*
tion, it out such a naval force as would
be superior to oun. But suppose we
ever had reasoa* for such appr^ennons^
lj)ey are now removed by the olers of
peace whkh France has made, and the
way to renew them will be by undertaking
a scheme which neither the oneen <n
Huneary nor we can execute ; tor if we
should mil in the execution, especklly if
our armies should happen to meet wiui a
signal defeat, it will rekindle the war in
Germany with greater fary than ever, and
if Finance never had before, shewiH then
begin to conceive hopes of being able to
model Europe to her own liking, and to
take what part of it ^e pleases to herself.
This may be the consequence of our en-
couraging the queen of Hungary to re*
fuse the terms that have been ofered:
and after our being exhausted by a bloo^
and expensive war upon the continent, it
would be more easy tor Ftance to set tile
superiority of us at sea, than it couM have
been had we never engaged in any such
war.
In my opintonr therefore, Sir, the^reat^
est danger fite can have at present, is that
which may arise from our engaging either
as principals or auxiliaries in the war, and
thereby encouraging thfe oueen of Hun*
gary to refuse the terms toat have been
oiered, and to form projects of making
conquests firom France by the assistance
we are to give her. It may be true. Sir,
tiiat before the late emperor's death, the
French had resolved to declare in fiivour
of the Spaniards against vs, or to behave
in such a manner as to prov<^e us, if it
was then possible, to dedaf e against them.
It may be true, that the squadrons ihef
sent to the West Indies had orders X^
join with the Spaniards m an attack upon
our island of Jamaica ; but I have a sus-
picion, tltey had encouragement from some
people here to mfdce Uiat attempt, and
an assurance that if they cofald make them-
aehres masters of that isfamd, the natiom
C3 0]
051]
16 GE0R6B IL
would not be at the ezpence of canrjing
on a war against the joint power of France
and Spain for its recovenr. I believe^
both tney and their friend here would
have found themselves disf^pointed in
their expectations; and the disaj^point*
ment ana dishonour they m^ with m that
expedition, roust canvince them, how vain
it will be for them to form any designs
against us, till they can render themselves
superior at sea, which, I am persuaded,
they will not attemii^ for several years to
come, because, I believe, their co&rs have
been so drained by the present war, that
they will not be able m many years, to
spare auch vast sums as will be necessary
&T preparing a navy superior to the navy
of England ; and if they had the shifw and
all other materials, they would find it dif-
ficult to man them, either with sulors or
soldiers fit for the purpose. If they
should attack us before their having such
a fleet ready, and we should confine our-
selves to our own element, without wast-
ing our strength in romantic expeditions
upon the continent and maintamm^ nu-
merous land armies, we should be gainers
by the war, by destroying their plantations
and putting an entire stop to tlieir trade,
and thereby ridding ourselves of our
greatest rival in manufactures and com-
merce; so that I do not know, but it
would be one of the greatest favours the
French could do us to provoke us to a
sea-war, and one of the greatest injuries
we can do ourselves, is, to engage with-
out necessity in an expensive Ifmd one ;
and as the French want nothing now but
to.be quiet, we can be under no such ne-
cessity at present.
Having thus. Sir, discussed the point
of necessity, and shewn, that all the ap-
prehensions we can, with any shadow of
reason, be frightened with, must arise
from our en^agin^ in the war, and not
from our sitting still, eive me leave to say
somethbc with re^rd to our abilities. 1
shall readily admit. Sir, that if it were
absolutely necessary for us to engage in
war: if arms were of one side and chains
of the other, 1 should be for flying to
arms, let' our circumstances be never so
ideplorable; I should be for our pawning
or parting with every thing but our arms ;
but this IS far from beine the case, and
as our people are already so burdened
with taxes, and all those taxes mortgaged
for the payment of old debts, we ought
not to engage in any war without an ap-
parent and immediate necessity. To guard
Ddaie in the Ommom
against remote daaffen, and sudiH can
lii suggested only oy a very fruitful ima-
gination, is, in my opinion, very fiir from
being a good reason for our engi^ in
any war under our present circumataaces.
We have, it is true, as yet many resources,
but most of them are such as we never
ought, nor, I hope, ever will have re-
course to, unless we be obliged to fight
proarUetJbcis.
1 am &r from supposing, that te hare
not yet many resources for carrying on
a necessary war, and for prosecuting it
with vigour for several years, if it weie
to be carried on by aea, or in a countij
where we could from hence proride our
armies with all sorts of necessaries. Eves
the war we now seem inclined to oi^gage
in, at least we have pot oursdvea to a
monstrous needless ezpence, if we are
not : I say even this war we might find
credit ana funds to support, if tois were
our only consideration. As our puUic
credit is yet in a flouriaihing oooaitioo,
I believe we misht find money to boirow,
and might find fimds fi>r securing the re-
payment of that money; but in the pre-
sent case this is not our only considentioD.
As all our troops, both national andforeign,
must be proviaed for in a distant countiy,
we must send out such vast sums of roonej,
that, I am afraid, our balance of trade
will not answer our draughts, and if it
does not, the deficiency must be made
good out of our national stock of gold and
ulver, which may in a few years draio us
so much of our ready specie, that we fifaali
not have enough to circulate the vast
sums of paper credit we have now current
amonffst us ; and as soon as this happen^
it will put an end to our credit botfi pub-
lic and private. This may happen before
we can put an end to the war apoo an/
honourable terms, ai^d whenever it does,
we must put an end to the war upon any
terms, at least we must call home our
troops, and dismiss our mercensries, for
want o£^ money to pay them, which would
be a fatal consequence, and the more
fatal, because of our public credit's beio;
lost, and not easily recoverable ; so that
our country mi^ht be exposed to the dan*
eer of an invasion, when our goveniffleot
bad neither money nor credit to zsisein
army or fit out a squadron ;. and, I ^
afraid, our people would not be ^eij
ready or hearty in supporting a go^^
ment that had brought them under sucb
difficulties.
In the war during the late quel's ^^^
en eonHnkbig the BrUUh Troops in Manders. A. D. 1742.
[934
we were exposed to no such danger. Our
MaQce of trade was much greater than
It 18 at present. As France had then no
trade, we exported a great many more
goods than we do, or can be supposed
to do now; and we had not then near
such a large sum to pay for interest grow-
ing due yearly to foreigners, who have
money in our funds. Besides, a great
port of the provisions for our army in
Inlanders was Drought up here, and con«
Veyed to them by the way of Holland or
Ottend. Eren our armies in Spain, were
mostly provided for by what was bought
for tlicm in their own country. Whereas,
if we send our armies to Germany or the
Upper Rhine, which we must do, if we
resolve they should assist the queen of
Hungaiy, we* can send them little or no-
thing but money from hence. This I
tfao^t necessary to mention, because it
mkfat not perhaps otherwise have occur-
red to gentlemen who do not understand
trade;* and, I hope, our ministers will
think seriously of it, before they involve
their countiy in a war which must be
attended widi so many difficulties, and
which seems, from the late turn the af-
ftirs of Europe have taken, to be quite
unnecessary.
I thtil grant, Sir, that it has been a
i>op(dar cry, ever since the death of the
Iste emperor, to support and assist the
queen <n Hungary ; but among all rea-
sonable men, it was upon this condition,
as was expressed in our Address last ses>
sion, that the other powers of Europe,
e^uaHy concerned with us, should join in
giving her such assistance as mi^t be
efectuaL And since we find, that none
of thfe powers of Europe will join with us,
that even the electorate of Hanover re-
fuses to join with us, or to assist us with
any troops, unless we pay a most extra-
vsgant price for them, I believe no rea-
8ond>le man in England expeets or de-
sires, we should assist her any other way
than with oar money; especially as she
does not now stand in need of our assist-
ance, unless it be to make conquests.
Gentlemen will therefore find themselves
very much disappointed, if they expect
the approbation of the people in such a
romantic scheme as that of making con-
qoests upon France assisted by Spain,
without any one aHy but the queen of
Hungary; and if they should fku in this
scheme, as they probably may, they will
^Mr. BiBoawtB one of the Bank Directors.
find themselves exposed not only to the
derision but to tne highest resentment
of the people; therefore for their sakes,
if I had no other reason, I must be against
the hon. gentleman's motion.
Before I have done. Sir, I must say a
word or two in relation to the great num-
ber of troops to be kept at home. I was
really surprized to hear the hon. gentle-
man say, his majesty desired no more
than were allowed mm the first year rf
his reign, and not so many as were
allowed in the year 17S5. When the
hon. gentleman said so, he certainly for-
got ttie marines, whidi being all regi-
mented are as regular troops, and very
near as expensive, as any marchibg r^-
ment in our service ; and though it woiud
be proper, if they are ever to serve as ma-
rines, to have them on board our men of
war, and sometimes sent to sea, in order
to season and breed them up to the ser-
vice, I believe, all or most of them now
lie a burden upon the country people. I
must therefore look upon diese marines
as land forces, including them, as vdU ap-
pear by the estimates, we are to keep at
nome above S5,000 men, and that at a
time when we are to take fbrei^ troops
into our pay at a monstrous price. Sir,
if our schemes made it necessary to form
such a great army m Flanders, what occa-
sion hm we for 16,000 Hanoverians?
Might not we out of 35,000 have spared
to send 16,000 more of our own troops to
Flanders i Will it be said, that in time of
war we must always keep 85,000 land
forces in this island to protect us against
sudden invasions? Are we to supj)ose /
our people so much disafiected in any part
of tne idand, that most of them woiild
join an invading enemy, if not immediately
prevented by the arrivid of a large body o>f
regular troops ? God forbid, Sir, I should
make a supposition so injurious to his ma-
jesty and our present royal faniily. The
danger of a sudden invasion and the dis-
afiection of the people have always, I know,
been made a pretence for keeping up
within the island a greater number of re-
gular troops than we had any occasion for,
but it was never carried to such an extra-
vagant height as now ; and I am sorr^ this
shoilid happen under the administration of
some -gentlemen, who have for so many
years been exclaiming against numerous
standing armies.
But we are told, now it is time of
war, and a standing army in time of war
is not inconsistent with ,oar constitution.
OSS] 16 GEOBGB IL
Sir, war or peace, a numeroua stand*
tng ararjr kq>t within the islaci^y when
we are not at war amongat. oursdvet,
I 8ay» 18 inconiistent with our consti*
tution. If we are to send an armgr
abroad* let it be raised* but kt it be sent
abroad as soon as possible ; and when the
war is over, and the anny called horae, let
it be disbanded as soon as possible. This
was our ancient method : tiUs, and this
Alone is agreeable to oar constitution. If
it w^re otherwise* it would be easy fer an
ambitious king to keep the nation alwm
at war* in order to nave an excuse ror
keepii^ up a numerous standing army at
borne* not for subdubff his foreign ene-
mies* but for subduine liis people ; there*
fore more of our land Girces ought to have
been sent abroad, or not so many of them
r^ed ; and if any more troops are design*
ed for Flanders, they should nave been put
in an estimate by themselves* in order to
avoid a preeedent &r keeping above 35,000
men in the island at a time when there
is no rebeBioo, nor so^nucb as the appiaar^
ance of an insurrection in any part of it ;
therefore when the question comes to be
put upon the number of troops for guards
and j^rtsons* I shall, I believe, be against
it, as heartOy as 1 am against the question
pow unda: your coasidmtion*
Afiainst sir WiOiam Tonge's motion for
/continuing the British forces b Flanden,
itwasurged* « Thatby this step we should,
srith one war upon our hands, draw-our-
selves into anc^r,' To this it was an-
swered by the ministry, < That we entered
into the second war, because we were
bound hj the strongest ties of treaty and
puUic faith to do it ; because the first war
pould never have been brought to a happy
l^onolusion without it; because the ee-
cond enemy supported the first ; because
the second power, without entering avow«
^Iv mto that war, supplied, encouraged*
pxA fomented the di&rence between us
and the first ; and because there is move
aafety in an open enemy, than in a ftlse
ft'iend ; because the views of the first and
second enemy coincided with each other ;
and because we were certain* that the ae-
cpnd enemv would have joined the first,
sfith her whole and an irresistible fiNroe,
wh^n she bad finished her work in Ger-
many, and that then we should have had
to dea) with both these powers^ without
W one a)ly in the world; whereas, by
^inii>g against the second, at the time we
IM It, w wcw able IP a«t in eoigunqiiop
witk some of the greatest poMsisEar
rope, and a reasonable eipeotafiwi of tke
aia of more ; becauae the raib attia|li sC
the first power* partly te gprstify her omi
wild ambition* and partly to amt die
plan of she second, had affMda4 m tba
means* if we enga^ against theasoiQd,
of raimag the aimies of the fiistyof ooi*
fining her fleets from any possibili^ af
doing us any harm* and in mie»of dusp-
pointing her most .fav««nte views, of c»-
Kaiwting herfevenues,«n4 of thraenaihsr
govemnmnt into eon^isioii in ooe cim»
paigut mone than by angr fithar im sf
waging war with h^ to the ^d si ths
world* And that all this could be ^
done* when we had the one wv ifisaetf
hands* by epmiging in the other/
A secoBd Option was, 'Thsthsasky
we should make ouivalmfpinfifaliias
war* wheaein we ought to te enly^aindh
arias.' To this it was scfdied. « Thst Urn
assevtJoB is absohitfiy and neloiisiidf
fiilse in faet, for we have bi^heilonet bsea
prinoipols in this w«r in aiqr sense vhifc*
we have aeted only^as awailiarieits
the House of Austria* And ihat weoiuht
to be auxiliaries was ajneed e»eU faaadi.'
It was also aslmd* * Whf dewenme^
selves into expences we cannot bsar, isH
dificukiesweehaH find it ae hsid* if oot
impossible to get out oQ into inessrW'
eneies we see no end o^ psunsuiia wkie
there is nothing to gain* and strag^
in which we have so much to kse?' Ts
Shis question the Answer was* «Tksttk
great supplies of the last fsar hid bees
raised upon terms as low as Ihsy svff
were in times of the most.pvofound peiee;
while the «nemy we were Mgaged wiiK
could not raise the sums he waiitsd, u
twice the rate of intemt we pqr- T^
as to the tnconveniencies'heang endleH^ it
is imdoubtedly true that no human rssMS
oan prescribe an exact period to soj w«
the mconveniences of which must but fti
.sttoh war is determined; but if tlus be «
objeetion, it is sudi a one, aa mmt mib
against engaging in any war, howefcr jn^
or necessary* in any eeuntiy or eoojoia'
ture whatsoever: tlmt itcooldnotbeffi'
we had nothing to gain, when we bsd t
prospect of restoring that faithfid a|!r>
whicti is alone able to stem the smbitias
of the French numardi* the implscibh
and ever dangerous enemy of tbis coas*
try; end that those men must he daHi^
bwi of common, aeose and heosstjr, ^
contend, that we should lie by in tioe »
dan|^ ( fiw wiuaaaa men t^amiglbw ^
m\ oiicoirifai«iyrt»JwWifcrnwy»i»JfaBfew. A. IM74t.
vm
viiea thfij hwre wi^iaiich to Iom, m thf
trade, the indepeodency, the religioo, and
the froedom or tbeir coimtry i*
A fourth Qu^atioB wWp « Why, if ibf
Queen of HuQgvrj IB to Jbe farther wiited.
io we, iQHeadof aendiitt her mopey , whidi
ought ataist hoTt mpoqa treble the iponegr
she wouU he thanknd for, m maing forces
Kbit cannot oaaiat her i* Aod to this the
AoMrer wai» ' That though ebe might
hate been tfaoDkful for a thud pert of the
noaey, which our taoepa oost uh as any
power in Jier Ipto deploinble circumetanoey
vould have been» it waa not her thanksi
butherfireienratioa from immediate ruin ;
it wai not her gratitudef but the recovery
of her power to bialance Fiance» which it
wBs our boaineaa to procure s it mutt have
beeD an aid that would be effectual, or we
should have left ber worve than we found
hw. That thia insinuation, that a,peGu-
oiary aid would have been done efbctua)*
wMfitf lirom beiae true* tbcogb the whole
neoey, which our aimies coat HSp had
been remitted to Vieina: beoaoio audi
jQuneiite soma, e^Kfierted out of this coun<-
tijthither^woiild bavodisttoModuagraati^,
and would have none of it retnmed ; it
would have therefore been impracticable
to hav^ continued thia expence .for any
time: whereas by e3q)eriencie of the last
war» it was manifest, that verjr naar two-
tbirda of die charge of the armies we main-
tsined within a nearer distance of this
^try, returned to us again; and we had
ud a proof that we eomd support a war
in this method without aby vast diminu-
tion of our mecie; becauae such immense
fiUQg must, from the nature of that court,
have been mudi wasted or consumed ; but,
bovever applied, could not so conveniently
have answered our enda> because we should
have lost the advantage of a diversion to
tbe farces of France, which is a meaaure
of the greatest benefit in war. Because
we aliould have lost the advantage that
^psulted from the security of the barrier,
vom the encouragement of the Cutch,
<W)m the protection of the states and cir<-
^ ^y^S upon the confines of Fiance,
Bod die Influence we have since mani-
i^ gained upon the diet of the empire.
P^uie no otJier measure could have put
|t in our power to attadc and penetrate
into France itsdf, if God should prosper
^ arms with any remarkable success,
^nd because by wis apprehension the
flower of her armies have been conse-
ly retamad at home^ and she more
lyWbebiooghl
acfominiadation. That by lUs maaqa ww
availed ouradvas of two |raat points; qf
the cavahry of the allies, wlych ia tbe best 19
Europe, mi must harre been &r thegraalr
est part unensployed in this ^uanel, if ttf
war had not been carried on in this maiir
ner ; and of the natural aupedority whiok
confiederated powers have over a sjngjif
natiooy and what, waa our manifeat advaDr
tage in the last war, viz. that tbe loss of
men en our part will fidl mote eaually,
and win he 1m felt; while tho wheiie lo«a
of France fidls upon her own nation, from
whence.^ (meshe is able to recruit ( whi<4
oreumatance, ail other things supposod to
be equal> must enable the queen of Hiuif
gary to austain the war loiuEer, and with
lem ineonvenienoe than the fcench. Xbs^
tbe Austrian dominions are by no meana
inexhaustible irf'inen ; though the French
have sufierod moiq, yet the Ausirians ha^
lost a great .nuad)er, and it is a certain
iaet, ttet France alone contains more ior
habitaots than all the countritn of tha
tpewA of Hungary put together.'
It waa deoianded, 'why tbe mmistry
diaMiaiW tbe quean of Hungary Aom
liaastting 10 all offers .of aooomnmdatioi
last summer, and partssulady at tbe.siego
of Prague f Why did they endeavour t#
prevent her acceptinj; the terms proposed
of lecipvooal evacwmons of Bohemia and
JSaworia, kttvingdher claims and (^etesp
aiona to future negoeiatioos and civd deair
aion; whioh is the and they must come lo^
nnless these smiabbles last for ever?* To
this it was reilUad^ * That if it was dona^
it was done wisely : for that these oSsiffl^
accommodation wore in e&ct no moaa
than a oeaMtion:of arma» the mdy view of
which was io prevent the ruin of 80,000
legular troops of Franoe. That the ci^
ofFmgue, which was then wery day oib*
peoted to fall into the Austrian haodi» waa
all that the <(ueen of Hungaiy coidd baoo
yarned by thia ceasation; tbaitb^re&ie i^
IS not to hie wondered a^ that she was not
indmed to trust to a new capitulation
with that very body of troops, who« had
they not, lasnTrary to all military Aith-and
jnilea of war* broke a capi^ulalion, tgr
wbilh they saved their Uvea .at Xinta g
Ssw asanths be£Ne, could not ha^ haat^
at Fmgue in that coiyunctuna to^have dair
floanded a second onportuaAgr to abuap
her aaercy. That she oeuld nowise iha
blaraed for refusing to. trust to tbe insidir
eiis offers, to the faith of that pavfidioiii
power; o&rs, that.gavo no ossHranoe $f
anvtaaoMmditisv s ^ttMi.nlldgfar catai^
939]
16 OEORGB II.
J>s6aieiHiieC&mm€mfmtaldt^
[940
lated to enable her enemies to M opon
her immediately nSiet, with redoubled
force, tending onljr to deprive her of the
hflqppy opportuni^ of giving the greatest
blow to France, that was ever given to her
in one campaign ; offers to bri£fr her by an
advantage, wmch was, in fact, sdready in
her hands, to he-guaranteed to her by the
honour and honesty of France, confirmed
by the additional power of their rdeased
army, and secured by the reservation of
the emperor's title to all her dominions,
which the emperor has, by his memorials,
since actually avowed as his intention
never to have departed from 1 That if this
step had not been taken, by this time in-
deed we should not have.'had an army in
Flanders; nor would there have been a
single army in Europe, that could have
ventured to have opposed ^e views of
FVance ; the queen of Hungary, attacked
by the collected force of France, would
have cleariy understood what was meant
by the future negociations, and the ciril
decision then proposed to her ; she must
have submitted long ere now to the will
of Ihat relentless power; and we should
have had all our thoughts vainly turned to
the entrenching ourselves in our own
island af^st the united powers of France
and Spain.'
It was asked, * Why we embarked in
this measure, without the junction, con-
sent, approbation, or even participation
of HoUand V And to this the Answerwas,
^ That it was absolutely &lse that they
refused to join at all, or that they gave us
reason to believe that they never would
consent, and that they had given us to
understand that they had condemned our
undertaking; whereas the fact was only
this, that uey would not ioin in the in-
stant that we nrst desired ; that they would
not consent till they found that they might
depend upon the vigour and stability of
our administration ; that they wo^ld not
publicly approve of a measure, in which it
was not safe for them to engage, till they
saw a force sufficient to protect them.'
Further it was urged, * That we alone
have taken upon us the hazards, burdens,
and expences of a scheme, which a]l the
powers of Europe combined would not
perhaps be able to execute, and which no
power in Europe wiH assist us in ?' To
this the ministry replied, * That England
had not alone taken upon itself the hazards,
burdens and expences of this war: for the
'House of Austria has* now, in different
parts, and in.dtferant armiesi no less than
180,000 men : under nrince Chai1c863,00a;
under other generals in Germsny, em-
ployed in the sieges or blockades of Egra,
ingoldstadt, Ac. S0,000 : with the king of
Sai^inia and count Tnnin 27,000; in
Flanders, and upon the Rhine, 1BO,000; in
the Tkentine, and the Tirol, imd adjacent
fMtrts of Bavaria, 1 5,000 ; upon the Adrii<
tic, ready to succour either Ae Italian
armies or to-be carried into the Neapolitan
dominions by our fleets, 19,000; and at
least IS^OOO men in the wrisons of Aus-
tria, the diffident parts of Bdhemia, Htm«
gary, Moravia, Servia, Croatia, Sdavonia,
Carinthia, Camiola, Stiria, and other prtK
vinces which, bordering upon the Turk,
can never be totally left unfunudied:
that the kin|; of Sardmia has above 40,000,
and With his militia above 60,000, whidi
amounts at least to 240,000 men, towards
which we contributed no more than tbe
voteof500,000A
These, with what has been exhibited m
the foregoing speediea, were the jsm
arguments wleged for and aganut fk
motion. The Question being {rat, the
same was agreea to, cm a divnioo; Ayes
280, Noes lOa
Debate in the Commons on takikg
THE Hanoverian Troops into Bri-
tish Pay. — F^om the London Maga-
2fne.«] December 10. The Secretoyat
War presented to the House, by bis ma-
jesty's command, a List of the troops of
Hanover now in Flanders, indudiog the
general officers and train of artillery,
together with their pay ; which was order-
ed to be referred to the Committee of
Supply : as was likewise the Account of
the Cnarge of the Troops of Hanover, in
the pay of Great Britain, from the Slst
of August to the 25th of December, 1742;
and the Estimate of the Charge of tbe
said Troops from the 26th of December,
1742, to the 25th of December, 1743:
also the Estimate of the Charge of tbe
Hessian Troops, paid by Great Britain,
from the 26th of December. 174-2, to
the 25th of December, 1748, both in-
* Two dialioct Reports of tbe memonU*
Debates in boih Houses on taking Ibe HutK
veriaD Troops into British pay, bafiDgsppetrN
in the London and Gtfntteman's Magizio^) ^
has been thought proper to preserve both of
thera in this Oollecti6n. The Londnn Magi-
zine gaveihe Debate in the House of ComnKMW
in May, 174S ; the Gentleman's (compiled by
Dr. Johnaooyio February, 1744*
41]
H0$uinenan Traopi Mv SrMsh Pay.
A. D. 1744.
[949
lusive. — ^The Hoiue having reBolved iU
iir ioto the said Coiiiinittee»
Sir WUKam Yonge stood up and said :
Sir ; the knowledge which his ma-
ssty was most gi|»cio.u8ly i^eased to com*
tunicate to us in his Speech from the
irone, and the apparent danger to which
le liberties of Europe are now exposed,
ould render it ver^ uimecessar; for me
» say any thing in &vour of the motion
am to make, if great pains had not latel^K
een taken, to repicesent the, most wise
od necessary measure that was ever
bought on, as a chimerical project,. c<^r
erted for no ether end but that of enridi-
)g the electorate of Hanover at the ex-
ence and haa^ of this kingdom. Upon
\us occasion, things have been said, nav
iings have been printed and published,
hich, in my opinion, ouglu to be deem-;
d hiffh treason by every man whq has a
^gard for the Protestant succession ; for
ley have first represented it ai a condir
ion in the Act of Settlement, that we
ioold never be put to any expence, or
rou^t into any danger, on account of
le electorate of Hanover ; and then they
ave endeavoured to shew, that all our
Hreign measures ever since the accession
f the present rojral fiunily, have been
sdculated for the interest or agg^randise-
lent of that electorate. If this were true,
le inference would be natund, that the
cmdltion of the Act of Settlement being
roke, the Settlement itself is become
did. This, Sir, is an argument, that,
' there were any truth in it, I should
emble to mention ; but every one knows
lat there is no such condition in the Act
f Settlement, nor has this nation ever
een put to any expence, or brought
ito any danger, on account of that elec-»
irate.
From what has lately hi^pened. Sir :
om the method of arguing now made
se of by some people, whidi is so very
Ifierent from tnat they formerly made
ie of, it is very plain, that unless thev
re themselves employed, and employed,
>o, in such stations as they may he pleas-
i to prescribe to his majesty, they will
ever approve, they will always oppose
id find nuilt with the measures pursued
y the administration. As long as our
ministers wisely endeavoured to prevent
war, by taking every peao^le meUiod
>r obtaining satisfiurtion for ourselves, and
^curity for. our allies, those gentlemen
Kdaimed against our pusiOanimous mea-
sures, and endeavoured to ridicule our
n^gociations : war and bloodshed was
then their Cavourite cry, and nothing would
satisfy them but an immedii^ decSiratioa
of war, let the consequence be what it
would. Our negociations at last proved
ineffisctual; our ministers were forced into
a war, and one of our principal allies has
been attacked, and is now m danger of
being swallowed up: the mosgt cTOctuiil
measures have been concerted by our ad«
ministratbn, and are now pursums in the
most vigorous manner, both for distress*
ing our enemies and supporting our allies.
Upon this, those gentlemen nave quite
altered their tone: the. distressed condi«
Uon of our country is set in its stronsest
light, the situation of our ally is saia to
be desperate, and the power of our ene-
mies irresistible; from whence they con<^
elude, that our present measures are ro^
mantic and chimerical. Thus, if our mi«
nisters endeavour to avoid a war by ne^
gociation, which every wise administration
will, they are said to be poltroons; and if
they prosecute it with vigour and resolu-
tion, when thev are forced into it, whidi
they must and ought, they are said to be
Don Quixotes.
These, Sir, are the different methods
of arguing made use of by those who hap«
pen not to have at present any share m
pur adpiinistration, and from this di&r-
ence, they really, in my opinion, ghre
room to suppose, that their opposition
proceeds not from any conviction, of the
Dadness of our measures, but from their
having no share in advising or carrying
them on. But to come to the point in
question, and to examine whether or no
it will be right in us to take the Hanover
troops into our pay, and to keep them in
pay till the afiairs of Germany are settled,
and the balance of power restored, let
us consider ^he present circumstances of
Europe, and the consequences that may
ensue frpm pur taking no share in the
war now carrying on against the queen of
Hungary. If we do not assist her, if we
do not resolve to assist her Mis vtnAtM,
it is evident that none of the other
powers of Europe will ; and if she receives
no assistance, it is as evident, that she
must at last submit to such terms of peace,
as France shall please to prescribe ; for
it is impossible for her, by herself alone,
to withstand the united force of France,
Spain, and the present emperor of Ger-
many, the latter of whom would probably,
m such a case, be supported by the joint
ft(S]
16'6fiOftG« IL
pow^ of the eta^frtf ; fcr if Ibe prftiMi
nd sMm of the eiiiii
enfpife iboold tee her
hmkmk bv ell her elKe«« e Miajerity of
Ihea woiiia in all probably be Indooed
t» mt heff to the Bon of *e empire, tat
Aefendiiitf hof 0ini ihiuiMiiUi ittaiiiit A
^rfaioe whom they hare chooeii ftr tfaeif
OuwiesCy Aen^ the pfearat eaipeioe ea*
idblialied in his ItnperU dignity, aad hi
the peaBCMioa of a g«eat part of the doni-
ahma of IheHotMof Aoatriaiby thefb*
yoat and poirer of Iranoes rappofle tfle
8p«HfaaA,or Don Fhflip of SpaHn, by the
aame meant, estabibhed hi die poteeMien
of ril or most of the Aotarian donhiioni
hi Ittdy, what ftlal coMeqoenees might
Mt this nation expect, even aa to on? own
particutar eoaeerna f We loaow fSbe cir«
etifenatancoa we kn now in wMi regai^ to
Spain : we hnow how nmch it la the in-
terest of Ftmee to deatro3r our trade, and
to diveat na of oor takiabfe po«M«sionsin
Ihe Mediterraoean, aa well aa of many of
^t phmtationa in America: we Icnow
how ready Franoe waa, bat yftry lately, to
Mn with Spam agamtt na. What coold
we expect, n the emperor of Germany,
and all the princes and statea of Italy,
wete tHos brought under a sort of de-
pttidenoe upon ranee f Could we expect
any asabtonce from the Dutch? They
would not dare to send a single ship to
help us» Gonldwe expect any assbtance
§hom the Portt^ese, or from any of the
States in Italy? They would not dare to
Assist lis: Ihey would probably be induced,
or compelled, even to ftrbid us their ports.
These weie the fatal eonaequences we had
great reason to iqpprehend at toe begmning
of last summer; and were we to do no-
Uring, to attempt nothing, for preventing
them? By the wise and vigorous measutes
we have shioe taken, we have brought off
lAe Idng of Pirnssia fVom his altknce with
Cranoe ; we have prevaUed on the king of
flardhiia to dedaxe openly in our favour ;
and if we conthiue the same meaiureB, we
may probably soon penuade some other
powers to take the aame coarse.
It is not yet. Sir, a twelvemonth since
it Wtti the opinkm of some gentlemen, that
tile unfbrtunate state of aAura slrroad, and
*e hmctivHy of the Dotdi, as well aa of
sevettf prmoea of the einpiivi were en*
iMfy owing to the pusiUanimons ttieasurea
we hadpufsued, and to a supposition) Uiat
we woold no innr concern ourselvea witii
«|iy of the aSurs upon the oeotinent.
Thii» it iraa saM, had hriideied it Impossl^
l)sta0e Ai Ite C^aHNofis oa tM^ [M4
He fiar the other powais of Eaiapetofami
any coofed^mcy against the smbitioia
schemes of France, and had em mide
aome of them join with France, who would
oOierwiiO have lieen raady to have joined
wMi ns awdnut her. If diers vaa any
fttab in tlus argument, sarsly it was ae-
aassary ftir uaio give, as soon ss fwskk^
noonvhicuig proof that we hai aot de-
serted tba eaoae of Europe, hot on ^
esmtrary were aa ready aseverts^ead
ear Mood and our treasure m defesoe of
the Ubeniei thereof. This ws did by
sanding a powerful sqoadroa nto Hie M^
dtsemineaa, for the support of the kiogof
Sardiida, and) by sending an army of ov
own troops into Flanders; butneitberef
these muasuraa wHl aignifyanv tbfa^, vo-
lesaweprooeedfiirthor; andmrtliiirei*
son it beeatne dbaoluSelyneceMatyfirfs
to take a large body of meiga tresftinto
our pay, in mer to form such aaanDyn
might give efcctaal aosistanoe to tbeqotn
of Hungary, In ease France shenld^'
sist in U)6 proaecutioo of her sndMtioo
views*
For this reasoBi die Ressian troops vec
ordered So asafoh to FisDders, sod db
mi^ty nest graeioualy agreed to M
us a large body of his own trsoM, vfaidi
werolik^risa ordered to marditoraidpn,
in order to Join our troops there; aid
these troops, together with the AostrioB
troops now in Flanders, wilt form nichio
army as will, I hope, enoourage someotber
powers to declare openly in &voar afihe
queen of Hungary. It has alreadj had »
food an eflfect, that both the emperorand
Vmoo have begun to condne their view?,
mid have very much lessened thdr d^
nmnds; for they have already o(M
terms, which they would have disdsined to
give ear to, at the beginning of Isst can-
pajffn. So far. therefore, ought «e to
be from appearing m the least uumDing
to take thui body of Hanoverisn troop
hito our pay, that, I ^nk, we ougiit to
thank his majesty fer bemg soresdj totf-
Sistasirith a body of hb Sectors! troapty
al a time, perhaps* when it would not bive
been easy fbr us to have got an j other
troops to hire.
To every one ^erefore who conadert
Ae fhtal consequences which moitea»«
to this nation m particular, fhmi fmd
bringing altnoSt all (he powers of Eiir^
under a sort of denpendence upon beff tbff
takhig of (Ins bo^ of Hanoverisn ibrcef
into our pay, and their mardi to ioto oof
armyitt Flluidcte,ttustippeartobe8ittr
MS]
ffitilffoerian Troepi nUo BrUuh Pay.
A. D« 174S.
[946
abtoltttd jf neeattary foft* the prtaervation of
Great BritaiD,«iidicoo8equeQUy not in the
least owing. to a design of enriching the
dectorate of Haoot^r at the expence of
Great Bntain.
I shall indeed grants that the support of
those troops, whilst they are in our pay,
will be a very great expence to this nation ;
but their mafcli into Flanders is a manifest
proof that this measure was not calculated
tor the enriching of Hanover, because the
aioney we |my to them will not be spent in
Uanorer, mt in Flanders, or some other
part (rf'Europei where they shall luippen
to be empldyed, which can never be sup*
posed to be in Hanover. On the con-
trary, as many of the officers fire gentle-
men of fortune, they will, and ^dways do
spend more than their pay, and conse-
fluently their living in Flanders, or in some
loreign country, will draw money out t>f
the electorate of Hanover, as well as out
of the island of Great Britain. In short,
to suppose, that the sending of 16,000
men out of a country, is done with a de-
sip to enrich that country, is, in my opi-
moD, one of the most extraordinary no-
tions that could ever enter into any man's
head, and must vanish as soon as we
begm to think seriously and coolly upon
die subject.
The sending c^ those men into Flanders
can be of no manner of service to the elec-
torate of Hanover, any further than as it
may coDtribute to the preservation of the
liberties of Europe ; and to say, that we
ought not to pay those troops, because
they will contribute towards the advantage
of nanoiver as well as of this kinedom, is
an argument that will hold equally good
against our taking any other foreign troops
into our pay. As the loss of our own
liberties must necessarily follow that of
the liberties of Europe, we ought not to
consider, what other states may do, or
what advantage they may reap by our
doing ; but when the liberties of Europe
come to be in danger, we ought to do all
we can for extricating them out of that
danger ; for if other nations should seem
willmg to submit to the yoke, it is no reason
for our doinff the same ; and therefore, I
shall never unck it romantic in us, to en-
deavour to prevent our bein^ led into cap-
tivity, were the odds against us much
greater than they are ; for success has
oflen arisen from despair, and nations
have been saved, after having lost all hopes
of safety. It js not loss of hopes. Sir, out
loss of oarage that enslaves a nation : and
[VOL. XIL]
•I hope the event of this day will shew that
we are Britons.
But why, Sir, should we talk of despair,
or of losing all hopes of success in any de-
sign for setting bounds to the ambitious
projects of France ? The late and present
condition of the queen of Hungary is a
strong argument against it. About a year
ago, who would have said, that she could
now have been at Vienna, or in possession
of any part of her dominions, except sucli
as she might have obtained from the
courtesy of France ? Yet, by the couriige
of her own troops, and a httle assistance
from us, we n<fw find her not only resisting
but triumphing in GermanjTi and in pos-.
session of^allher dominions except such.itt
she has yielded to Prussia, and two single ^
towns in Bohemia, both of which are
blocked up by her troops, and the gar-
risons of both m the utnaost distress. How«
then, can we think it to be either romantic
or chimerical in us, to propose giving her
such assistance as may compel her enemies
to submit to reasonable terms of peace,
and such as may restore the balance of
power in Europe, and establish it upon a
solid and lasting foundi^oo.
'Iliis^ Sir, we may do : we have now, I
think, a very great probability of being able*
to do it; but we never could nor can we now
propose being able to do it, without taking
forugn troops into our pay ; and as a smau
assistance now will be much more effectual,
than a much greater would be, after our
ally the queen of Hungary is reduced to
the last extremity, therefore, I must think
it was right in U9, to take the first troops
we could get, which happened to be those
of the electorate of Hanover. At our re-
quest they have idready marched and
joined our troops in Flanders. His majesty
as elector of Hanover, has already, upon
our aeeount, put himself to a very great
charge. He put such a confidenoe in the
parliament of Great Britain, and in the seal
we have hitherto shewn for the suppdrt
of the queen of Hungary, that without any
express parliamentary engagement, he or-
dered his troops to march ; and therefore,
I think, we are in honour obliged to make,
good the expence he has been at. Nay,
I think, we are under a sort of le^
obligation to make good tfais expence ; for
by our Address of the '2Sd of March hist,
we expreroly promised to support his ma*
jesty in all such measures as snould be ne-
cessary for restoring the balance of power,
and re-establishing the tranquillity of
Europe ; so that we are not only in ho-,
[SP] •
d47j
16 OfiORGB U.
lM&lema0
0H8
iioar, but by our tmn express promise
obliged to make good the expenoe his
majesty has put himself to. or may be at,
by the margji of his troops into Ilahden.
For this reasan. Sir, 1 cannot suppose,
that I diall meet with any opposition as
to the first motion 1 am to make, which is,
to resolve, <' That the sum of S65,19U
6s. 9kl. \. be granted to his majesty, for
defraying the charge of 5,518 horse, and
10,155 toot of the troops of Hanoter, (to-
gether with the general oficen and the
train of artillery) in the pay of Great
Britam, from the Slst of August, to die
^b of December, 174'3,bolhmclusire.'^
* <* The debatea, which happened m both
Hoases upon these Resoliilions, were len
goarded, and mors psfsoaal, than oaaM have
wall bean expected, in assenUisa thatowasd
the elector of Hanover for their aoveraiffii.
The Act of Seltleaicnt waa turned to; aada
new doctrine was all of a sudden aet up, that
the endeavours of Great Britain to sare the
House of Austria, were vain and fruitless, and
calculated ooly ftr the ureservalion of Hanover,
and to load Eagland with the expence of Ha«
noverian aaercenawsa. ft waa Ml absovivly
tatimatadin pamphieiiaBd papan, wineli wcme
Idsown to be wrote by the heads af tfie party,
but were fathersd by minor antboia, that tfie
Act of Settlement, wnich provides against Oieat
Britain beiog ever engsffod in a war, on ac-
count of the dominions oelonging to her king
on the continent, had been viola^, and some
very undutifbl insinuations on that bead were
thrown out It wss pretended, that the iv4N>le
ef the bargain for the electoral troopa, was an
ianposhion upon the people of England ; be*
oaose those troops derst not aet against the
head of the empire, without exjMMtag his ma-
jesty to be put to its ban, and m ooo£rmation
of this, the late neutrality for the electorate of
Hanover was urged.
** The sendtoff the British troops to the con-
tinent, without being assured or the concor-
venoe of the states-ffeneral, waa hightjjr ex-
claimed agunst; and in answer to his majeaty,
who had said in his speech, that be had done
it in pursuance of the repeated advice of par-
liament, it was pretended, that that advice was
given, only apon the supposition, that the
states ffeneral or some other power in Europe
would nave joined Great Britain in her endea-
vours to support the House of Austria. It was
pretended to be highly nnconstitatioDal, and
derogatiBg from the tmpoitanee of pariiament
to take so great a nussher of foreigu mercena-
ries into pay, witboat conaulting it ; -and it
was pretended, that .the money, expended io
sending British troops to the continent, and
maiRtaining them ibere, together with the
eums to be paid fur tlie 'hire of mercenaries,
would have been more than sufficient to have
enabled ihe queen of Hungary, had it been
This Reaolntioiit I ssy, Sir, ^
be oppaied , because we an hothia hoBMr,
and lAf Ik sort off
to comply with il; imd sAsr ^
iesolution is agreed to, 1 shal then ud»
the liberty to move fiMraidinsomsi,bj
the estimaie before you, i^poMS lobe a^
cessary for keepuig Ihoae troops in sor
pay during the emndng year, efaid), I
nope, win be as readOy oooflied widi;
for though die army we faaieee now &nisi
m FUmders, in conjunolioii wkhtheqaeea
of Hungary^ troops there, naay hate s
veiygood effect lowavda firoomggoQd
terms of penoe^ yet as flmt i
•c w her, to have aMiaSaiaad dodUe tte
BOflaAer of ftrees; or if TOO,O00iL vhieheii
no nam than half of what was psid bjr Chnt
Britain, to tresf s in her mtwkft^ had bees gim
her in specie, aha could have maiatnDid
50,000 Bsen in placea, where they oould hare
acted with greater effect for ber interest ; Mtiai
700,000/. wai sctually lavished away, benda
the Mood of so numy Engtishmea, who pro-
baMy would be aacri6oed te ¥bM
qaarrd. Great AkqIi tikewiaa waa 1
eaarrel. Great taail nfeewiaa waa ftasdvSli
theasasBBbiing thaarmyin Ffasidsm,«btitit
was said, it oaoM beef no aerviea to the qisBi
of Haagary> but if k shonid give the Iradia
pretext mr attacking the Dutch hanier, mi^t
engage England, as aprindpal, m an ezpeoari
and dangerous land war.
*" It was fbrther observed, that It did sot
appear the ffiedorste or Hanover, tn0Q|[ii mots
immedialely eoaeenied in the event «ftbeiiir
than Great Britmn waa, bad ooasribaledasy
thing to the aupport of the eonmon enne;
and that on the osntmry , she bad made a BiBeb
mora adrantageous baigam than she made in
Uie year 1709, when the earl of Mariboroo^
negociated with De Bothmer, lbs Haooveiiao
minister, the hire of 10,000 men from the
House of Lunenbnrgh ; there hcbg in thtt
convention no stipulation, either #)r lefjw
iseemit-mdaey, whioh, in the pressoteoBtrMt
amonnted, with the pay of the alai!( andihe
offioera of the artilleiy, to l»9,313l. .Tbii, the
opposers of the measure tbaiq^it to betbe men
extraordinary, as the 16,000 men paid bj
England, were not raised at her request, im
as no more than 6,000 had, upon the death of
the late emperor, been added to the ordinay
fhrces of the dectorate. The gieat stsodiii^
part<
been an absolute neoessity, might bsve supfM
the place of the eypenstre merceDsries, now
taken into pay.
<' Such were the' principal arguments that
were brought against this famous meisaf^
which occasioned an opposition witbio doorSj
that was next to throwioiir the natioB'iiito ooa-
Ittston without. The Wh^ partoT the oppo-
!M8]
Tf9^ Mo MiUk'Pajf.
A. IX trts.
[9M
bo imniadiald^ eiqpeOed, eviarv geoticnMi
must 8ae» thaftit wa^ be abmiitely disaD*
poiftioflffftiidsUyieexpeiioewebftYealretay
ptti oimehFea to wndercd v w and omIom,
if Fiance end the emperor should find thai
the perliameot of Cmet Britain refqaed to
keep those fixejgntreopa in itapqr for one
year longer*. .
We hire already^ Sir, shewn e laudable
seal lor the support of the queen of Hun*
gacy : we have abaady put oarselves to a
cmisideieUe^expeaoe ; and noJboger^o
than in March last, we gave it as our
opiauin» in our Adidieoi to his nugesty,
which I have ahready mentionedt that we
thought we had reasonable grounds to
hofMBy that the balance of power nii^t be
wain restored, and the traaquUhty of
Europe rrtentahlished. I am surc^ no*
thing has happened aincothat tinie» wiHch
can afiad as the least shadow of reason
for akeciag our opinion; sotfaatifwenow
begin, dirou^ despur» or any odier mo«
tive, to desw back, and tp refus^ putting
ouneiTea to the expenoe necessary for eb*
taining that whidi we then thought wehad
so go«l reawm to Hppe fiar, it can prooeed
fiom nothing but an onstoediness of teni«»
pert vhi<^ we are, I fear, but too justly
accused of by for^gners,aad therefore we
ought, upon this occasbn, to be the more
caoliotta of dome ai^ thing that may con-
finn themin mm an opinion*
Sir John Si. Atibyn :*
Sir; it is with the greatest difficul-
ties that I rise up to give you this trouble,
and parUcalaily after the hen. gentleman
with iriuxn I am so very unequal to con-
tend: but wiien my assent is required to a
proposition, so big widi misdueft, of so
gafe ap all the maxinM ef Ihsir psfty
during the n^pm of hidg William and qasea
Anne, and then* most j^lorious measures and
victones upon the contueat, were now stiled
iilustrioos deTiatioDS from the true interest of
England ; and a new, and of late, an nabeard
of, d^ictrine was broached, that Great Britain
•oght npoD no aceooet to engage in aoy war
epso iheeonlinsnt of Eorope,lral kgr empley-
ii^ her good offices, er npon Tary gssat and
tatciastiag emeigeneife, ly sqpplyhi heral-
iies with money, and that Iqo with a ?«ry
spsring hani|." Tindal.
* This Specchit presenred in the CoUeetion
fX Dr. Joboson's Delwtes ; that it was not,
boweTer,*the Doctor's composition is ettdent ;
that it was g;if en in the Londoa Haga-
June, If 43, sight moasbs beAsait ap-
iiatheOcadeama^.
aiafmiog a nature to this conntrr, and
which I think, notwithstandinf^ what the
hon« gentleomn has most ingeniously said,
must determine from this very day, who
deserves the chamcter and appellation d£
a Briton, I hope you will for^ve me, if I
take this last opportunity which perhaps I
■say ever have of speakmg with Uie free^
dom of a Briton in this House.
I am not able to follow the boa. gentlo-
man in any refinements of reasoning upon
omr ibre^ affiuis, I have not subulty
enough to do it, nor is it in my way as a
private country gentleman : but thous^
country gentlemen have not that sagacity
in business, and, for want of properlights
being afforded us, the aenetiation of mi-
nisten into public aAtos; v^ give me
leave to s^, they ho^^ one kind of sepsf
which ministem of state aaldom have, and
at this tupe it is of so acute a nature, that
it must overthrow die arguments <^ the
most refined administration. This is the
sense of feeling the univeieal distresses of
their country, Ae utter incapacity it novr
lies under of sustaining the heavy burdens
that are imposing upon it.
This I take to be the first, the |^raal ob*
ject of this day's debate : consider weU
your strength at home, before you entangle
yourselves abroad; fi>r if you proceed
without a sufficient degree of that, your
retreat will be certain and shameful, and
amy in the end prove dangerous. WiUiout
this first, this necessary principle, whatv
evermay be the machinations, thevisionary
schemes of ministen^ whatever colourings
they may hei^ten tfiem with, to misleaa
our imaginatioas, they will prove in the
end for no other purpose, but to precipi-
tate this nation, by empty captivatmg
aounds, into the private views and mtiigues
of some men, so low aerluqw in nenutatioa
and authority, as to oe abandonea to the
desperate necessity of founding their ill»
possessed precarious power upoa the rums
of this country.
Next to the oonsidefation of oar inward
domeiticatreBgth, what foreign assistances
have we to justifjj^ this measure? Are we
sure of one pomva active ally in the
world? Nay, are not we moralqr certain
that our neareat meet aaftaralally disavows
this proceeding, and nfoses to eo^operata
with uaf One need not be deep read ia
potties to understand, that when one state
separates itself firom another, to which it is
naturally alliedt it most be for this plain
reason, that the interest is dcaerted uMiich
is in emfmm to. them bolb ; and it ii aa
m]
16 oiJbaGS u.
XMi^ in tKe dmmoMi on tMig
invariable rule in thig country, a role
never to be departed from, tbat there cail
110 cause exist in which we ought to en*
gage on the continent, without the aid and
assistance of that neighbouring state.
This is the test, the certain mark, by
which I shall judge, that the interest of
this country is not at present the object in
pursuit.
- Is any man then wild enough to ima-
gine, that the accession of 16,000 Hano-
verian mercenaries will compensate for the
loss of this natural ally ? No, but it is said
that this indicates such a firmness and re-
solution within ourselves, that it will induce
them to come in. Sir, if they had any
real proofs of our firmness and resolution,
that the interest of this country was to be
pursued, I dare say they would not long
hesitate. But they look with a jealous eye
•upon this measure, they conmder it as an
argument of your weakness, because it is
contrary to the genius and spmt of this
'country, and may thereforie lessen his ma-
jesty in the affections of his people.
« They have for some years past looked
upon a British parliament as the corrupt
enftine of administration, to exhaust the
riches and impair the strength of this coun-
try. They have heard it talk loudly m-
deed of the House of Austria, when it was
ill your power to have raised her to that
state, in which she was properly to be
considered as the support of tiie balance
t>f Eurooe, if timid neutralities had not in-
tervenea, and our naval strength had pro-
perly interposed to her assistance.
Tliey have lately looked upon this par-
liament, and with the joy of a natural ally
ihey have done it, resenting your injuries,
bravely withstanding the power, that you
might restore the authont}^ of your go-
vernment, demanding constitutional secu-
rities, appointing a {wrliamentary commit-
tee for enquiry and justice. Sir, they now
see that enquiry suppressed and justice
disappointed. In this situation, what ex-
•pectations can we form of their accession
to us ; talking bigly indeed of vindicating
foreign rights, but so weak and impotent
at home, as not to be able to recover our
own privileges ?
But this measure is said to be under-
taken in consequence of the advice of par-
liament. There has been great stress laid
upon this. It has been loudly proclaimed
from the throne, echoed back again from
hence, and the whole nation is to be
•amused with an opinion, that upon this
measure^Oie fate </lhe House of Austria^
the balance and liberties of Eabpe, the
salvation of this country, depend. •
But was this latal measure the recom-
mendation of parliament, or wss it the
offspring of some bold ent^prinng ndnis-
ter, hatched ia the interval of parfiamait,
under the wings of prerogative ; daring to
presume upon the corruption of this House
as the necessary means of his admiaistra.
tion ? The object indeed might be recom*
mended, but if any wrong measure is un-
dertaken to attMn it, diat measure sudy
should be dropt ; few it ia equally culpaUe
to pursue a good end by bsid measures, as
it is a bad enid by those that are honest.
But as to the Address, I wish gestlemen
would a little consider the occasion which
produced it. Sir, it proceeded from the
warmth of expectation, the exultation of
our hearts, immediately after and with the
same breatn that you established year
Committee of Bnquiry, and it is no forced
construction to sa^, that it carries this
testimoi|y along wiUi it, that national se-
curities and granting supplies were recipro-
cal terms.
But, Sr, I must own for my part, was
the occasion never so cogent, Hanoveriin
auxiliaries are the last Uiat I would vote
into British pay ; not upon the considen-
tion only, that we ought otherwise to ex-
pect their assistance, and that we ahouki
rather make sure of others dut mi^htbe
engaged against ns; but from this me*
lancholy apprdiension, that administra-
tions will for ever have sagacity enough to
find out such pretences, that it may be
difficult to get nd of them again.
Besides, the elector of Hanover, as
elector of Hanover, is an aibitrary prince,
his electoral army is the instrument of
that power ; as king of Great Britain,
he is a restrained monarch: and though
I do not suspect his majesty, and 1 dare
say the hearts of the British soldiery
are as yet free and untainted, yet I
fear, that too long an intercourse may
beget a dangerous fiuniliarity, and they
may hereafter become a joint instrument,
under a less gracious prince, to invado
our liberties.'
His majesty, if he was rightly informed,
I dare say, would soon perceive the danger
of the proposition wnfch is now before
you : but as he has every other virtue, he
has undoubtedly, a most passionate loye for
his native country,, a.nassion, which a man
of any sensation can hardly divest bhnself
of; Mui, Sigp it is a passionthe rooree*^-
sily to be flattered " . . ^^^
J33]
HoH&oerian Troopi inio BfUuh Pay.
Ai D. lyil.
[954
rirtue. I wish that those who have ^
honour to be of hisooimcilt, would imitate
lis royal exaoqilei and show a passion for
Lheir native countiy too; that they- would
fcuthfuUy stand forth and say, that as king
of iliia OQuntij, whatever interests may in«*
terfere with it, this country is to be hia
Br)it, his principal care ; that in the Act of
Seiticinent this is an express conditloBJ
But what sluggish sensations, what foul
heftrts must those men have, who instead*
of' coDductiag his majesty's right princi*-
plea, address themsehres to his passions,*
and miflguide his prejudices? makmgayo-'
limtary overtute of the rights and privi-
leges of their country, to obtain wvour-
and aecure themselves in power ; miscon-
stniing that as a secondary considenition,
which in their own hearts they know to
be the first.
Sir, we have already lost many of those
benefits and restrictions, which were ob-
tained for us by the Revolution md the
Act of Settlement. For God's sake, let
us proceed no farther. But if we axe thus
to go on, and if, to procure the grace and
fiivour of the crown, this is to b^me the
flattering measure erf:* every successive ad-
ministrationi — this country is undone !
Mr. Edmund Waller:
Sir; whatever opinion we may
have of what has been printed and pub-
lidied upon the subject now under our con-
sideration, we must allow, that if has been
of acme service to us, if it were nothing
else but that of Imving given occasion to
the hon. gentleman, who made the motion,
to display hia eloquence ; for otherwise, it
seems, he was not to have indulged us any
sttc:h pleasure. We should Innre heard
nothii^ ftvm him, but two bare motions
for granting his majerty nearly 700,00(M.
ia order to enable him to mamtain, with
the more ease, his own Hanoverian troops.
But though 1 was pleased with the hon.
seatleman's eloquence, I must confess^
hia argument gave me some pain. He
seems to think, that our constitution was
quite altered by the Revolution, and the
Act of Settlement wiiich was the conse»
qoence of it, and that we had thereby de-
parted from oar. ancient maxim, * Tfaat-
the king can do no wroag.' Whereas ac^
cording to iny notion of both, our consti^
tution was not altered but restored; and
oonseqoeatly this fundamental maxim of
oar government must remain as firm and
as imriolaUe, aa ever it was under any for-
mer raee of British kings. If this be so^
and that it is honum'whld has'a regsird fiir
our present royal family -will deiij^,.thea
no breach of condition or limitation can
impeach the king's title, but may be a
good reason for impeaching and jpunishingt
his ministers and advisers, as well as every
one who acts by XhAr orders a^pinst the
laws of their country. Upon this maxim
the freedom and stability of our govern^
ment depends : upon, tlus alone, not only
the fireedom of the press, but the freedom
of speech in paxfiament, can be founded;
for if the person or title of the king were
to be any way affected by the wrong mea4
sures advised or pursued b;^ his ministers^
no man could find fimlt with their mea-^
sures, withoot bem^ gmlty of a breach of
his idie|^ance to lus sovereign. But the
constitution of our^ government is known
to be otherwise; and therefore none of the
limitationa whidi are simposed by the com*
mon law, or expressed m any of our sta-
tutes, particularly Magna Charta, the Bill
of Rignts, and the Act of Settlement, are
to be looked on as conditions upon which
the king holds his crown, but as directiona
to the ministers and others employed by
him in the executive part of our govern-
ment) which they are not to transgress,
even though they should have his expresa
order for so doing.
In this light. Sir, every man may find
fault with the measures pursued by an ad-
ministration, without encroaching in the:
least upon that alleeiance which is due to
hissovereign: nay,]fhe thinksthemeasuiea
wicked or wrong, he is in duty to his sove»
reign, as well as his country, obliged to
find fault with them, and< to expose the
motives upon which they were founded^
or the evil conseouences with which they
may be attendeo. It is by this our con-
stitution is secured, and the people guard-
ed against bemg imposed on by the false
glosses usually put by ministers upon the.
measures they nave resolved to pursue;-
and it is by this our kincs are secured,
against Ae firtal effects of a general dis-
content, .by which absolute monarchs are^
often tambled headlong from their throne,.*
before :d^ey can be sensible of the evil ten-r
dency of the measures they have been ad->
vised to pursue. Therefore, if it has beeat
of late insmuated, or if it should now be:
insisted on, that the interest of Great Bri-.
tain has been or is now to be sacrificed to «
the interiesi of Hanover, the hon. gentle-i
man is not to impofiB.sOendi,4ipoa,thoso^
that say so, by telling them tUey artf .-guilty,
of hig&-tieasen,lMil by setting the aigu«K
935J
16 OEORGS IL
Deiaie in tke Cmmm on tett^
C99fi
vML m Midi m %to m wiU admit oT m
vedtf , which he» vilh all hit doquenoe,
viB» I fear, fiod to be a taak not eaiilr ao-
conplithed. May, I beliete he will not
tttenpt it; becauae in so dofa^ he would
ind hunsdf oUiged to ai;gue i^ainat thoie
who for some yean hare been his pnoci*
pal friends; and who fonneily sufiered Ibr
not joining so cordially in the aseaaures
against Sweden as iras then enpected by
tte court
Will any gentleman ssjr» that the inte-
rest of HimoTer had noshare in the mea-
sures we took, and llie war we at last do*
> Sweden^ aoon after the ac-
of his late as^eatv to onr throne?
Every impartial man who knowa any thu^
oflhehirtory of those times iMist grant,
that the purchase of Bremen and Verden
was the tarue cause of the nqpture between
Sweden and us; and the securing of that
purchase was afterwards the cauae of the
rupture between us and the Ccar. The
same cause likewise gave rise to die de*
fensive alliance between the emperor and
ns in the year 1716, and was originally
the cause o£ those disputes between S^Mun
and us, which have now produced two wars
and a half (if I may so exprem mywtUt)
between the two kingdoms; forthatmthe
year 1727, I can cdl but half a war, be-
cause it was carried on upon one side
only. Whilst the imperial court bat
seemed to fiivour the pretensions of Ha*
nover in Germany, we did every thing
that court could desire; but when we found
that court a little femiss with regard to
those pretensiens, we, all of a sudden, in
the veer 172U altered our conduct, con-
dom a aepnrate peace with Spain upon
terms not very honoorable, and from
being a generous beoame a jealous friend
of the emperor's, which united us in a dose
oorrsqiondenoe with the couit of France,
and at last produoed the treaty of Hano-
vei^ the oonseqoences whereof have been
flrtd to Europe as weU as this nation*
Theae fiwts could, I believe^ Sir, be suf-
lloietttly proved, were we knasters of all
the secret negodations that hciw been
carried on for thirty yenrs past; and if
Aey ate true, sorely it is not treiBon to
say4M>. But suppose diem all to be true,
mm dearlv demonstrated, no man that
nnderttandsou^ constttuticii will say, they
could any way operaSeagamst his mi^sty,
or Sfiainst our present hmpy establish^
Suoli a pnaor would mdeed fall heavy
upon the mbisters that advised or pur*
aiedaudi maasnreu, ant the very sus-
iHCion<
for oui
oi%ht to be 4 prevaOing arpaieoS
or our establishing such r^ulatums, as
mayinevent theprosecutiottofsadiaBeaf-
auras in any future time»
As to the measuie which is the subject
of our present ddwte^ I am vaady aur-
prised to hear any gentleman pretend, that
It will be no advantaoe to the dectorale of
Hnnorer* Is not the sending of near
700,000i: En^ish money to that decto-
rate an advantage to it? WiU not the
maintaining of iSfiOO men, which must
otherwise have been raainfaifrf by the
ekctotnle itsdf, be an adnmti^ to k>
But the hon« gentfeman asya, the paring
of those troops can oarry no nches into
the elcctonte of Hanover, beoniaBe the
troops me marched oot of it, and tbcv
whole pay to be spent .In a foreign ooon-
try. my, he goes ftrdier and anya, that
our takinff those troops into our pay, and
obliging tnem to live in foieign parts, will
be a loss to the doctorate, becauae many
of the officers have fortunes of their own,
and will spend more than the pay recetred
from us, whidi aopra-expenoe asnst be
drawn from, and ooose^oently wffl be a
lorn to that doctorate. Sir, if there are
any officen among the Hanover troops who
spend more than thdr pay, there are aome
who will not spend so much, and as those
savings must remain in, or be laid out in
the electerate, it is highly probabie that
what it gets by the latter, wR more than
atone for what it loses bj the former.
But suppeae it were otherwise, will not the
doathing, levying, and recruiting these
troops at oar ezpence^ be an advents^ to
that electorate? For the whole money
u^on eveiy one of these artidea will be
laid out or laid up in Hanover; and the
advantage it mnst reap this way, will, I
am sure, do a great ded more than <
pensate any loss it nm sustain by the ea*
travagance of some of^its oSoem.
We must thesafore suppose, that though
this body of Hanoverian tioops be to save
in a foreign country, yet a great part of
what we pa^ for them, or to them, will be
laid out in Hanom^andconsetpientljr thst
this measore will Send to the enriclung of
that electoiate.i Bat now suppose, that
.not one shilling of this money were to re-
main in, or ever to return to Hanover,
would it not be an advanti^ to have
16^fOOO of its troops maintdned at our
charge? For no aogmentation has been>
made upon this account to the aimy in
Hanover* The hen. gentleman aeems to
lay it dowh as a maaiim, that it caaaever
4
957]
Ha9W^ermm Troap$ into BrUUh Pag^
A. DL 1742.
[AM
be an advantwe ta way nadooy to send
i6»000 of itft flubjecU out of the country :
If he YmA' added the word, • kHe/ Us
nujciro would then have stood in its propet
light ; and, I believe, no man will saj, tiiat
it would not be an advantage to a nation to
have 16,000 of its idle subjects maintained,
either at home or abroad, attheeKpence
of some neighbouring nation* 1 mould
have been very far Inmi 6ndin|[^ iault with
our sending 16^000 of our soldiers to Zan-
ders, if they had been to be maintained by
tbe ^ueen of Hungary, the Dutch, «r any
other neighbouring nation, that would not
afterwardb have made use of them against
oondves* Therefore, the sendu^ <k our
troops to Flanders, as it is at our own ex-
peooe, must be a loss to us, but Hanovm^s
sendmg l€fiQO of its troops to Flanders
nnut be ao advmnti^e to it,- beeause they'
aie to be maintained lliere at our ex-
peace.
I ahidi grant, indeed, Sir, that if the
Hanover troops were to hsrebeen kept in
Hanover, and there maintakied at onr ex-
pence, It would have been a greater ad-
vantage to that electecate ; and therefore
our keeping, and always maintaining such
a body of troops in tlie electorate of Ha-
nover, may perhaps be designed to be
introduoed by this precedent. Our por-
Kamenta nsay not be as yet weH enough
diidplined, for approving o£ such a mea-
lure ; but w^ do not kmw wlmt may be
brougte about, by time and bad prece-
dents. We lately maintained, for several
yeari, 12,000 Hessians for the defence of
Ilanover ; and now we have got into the
nethod ^ taking Hanoverians mto our
pay, I can see no reason why we should
not always be, from the same mettves, m-
duced to keep a body of troops m that
electorate for the same pvrpose. To a
parliament willing to beconvmced, I could
M^est a great many plausible reasons for
9or agreeing to such a measure; and such
reasons as, 1 am sure, would in dl Ibture
reigns noake me a -fevoorite at cxHirt ; for I
never yet read of a prince that was wflU
>ng to give up the smallest territory that
belonged to liim. I conld shew, and I
(hink, with some reason too, that as the
elector of Hanover is king of Great Bri-
tain, it would be inconsistent widi our ho-
nour to allow it to be taken from him:
Lhatit is almost surrounded witih princes
irhokeej^ great armies on fbot: tfaatwith-
imt keepmg always a rery nnmeroas stand*
mg army in that eleetorate, it is liable to
^e suddenly invaded aad swattowed t^ by
some of Its neighbourinff princes : that the
eiecSorate is not of ilsdf able to keep such
an army on foot as may be necessary for
guarding against this danger; and that
therefore we, for the preservation of our
own honour, ought alwkys to maintain a
great army in that electorate. I could
farther urse, that this army^ would give
great wei^t to our negodationsat all the
courts upon the continent : that it would
tend to encourage our friends and teirifj
our enemies, fbUy as much as an army sent
to or kept in Flanders; and that it wooU
be alwajit ready and more at our com-
mand than the troops of any ally, in order
to be brought ofnr,lo prevent or lepel any
invasion or insurrection, especially as our
king has now tim possession of Bremen and
Verden, whidi shews the consequence that
purchase may be of to the qoiet of Great
Britain, and the security of the PMestant
succession.
These and a great many other sodi ar«»
guments, I covud nnake use of, for our
maintaining a great body of troops in Ha-
nover : I am & from saying they woold
appear condosive to any man of an honest
heart and a dear understanding ; but, I
am sure, they would be as condusive as
those arguments wove, that were made use
of for our tdung or keeping the Hessmn
troops in our pay, in consequence cf the
treaty of Hanover ; therefore it may be
supposed, that some future parliament
may agree to sudi a measure. What we
are now about will be a precedent for it;
and if ever we have such a parliament, i
am convinced, ourmuusters, who generaHy
tfainkofnodiinaso much as of A^qdring
an interest in the doaet, will not be back-
ward m proposing it 1^,1 do not know
but that m the very next session we may
hear sgme such proposition made: before
oir next meeting I may prophesy, dmt a
syspensfam of arms will ne agreed on, and
a congress appointed; it will then be
nrged, that we ought notto disband anj
of our own troops, or dismiw any of Im
foreign troops we have in our pay, t3I
peace be folly restosed; andtfwedokeep
them in phy, it will, even with reason, I
thmk, be smd, that Hanover is as proper
a place ibr keeping them teas anyotoer
pmt of Europe.
Thus, I hope. Sir, I have shewn, that
die measure now under our oonsidenlion,
must immediatdy contribute to the an-
ridUng of Hanover at the expenoa of this
kingdom, and may probably, in its oonse-
qoenoea, contrfoute a gveatdeal tnofo.
950]
16 GEORGE II.
D^aie in the Commotu nn taking
{960
' The next thing I am to'enquire into Ib,
how, or what way, or if at all, this maaaiire
can be supposed to contribute to the ho-
nour, advantage, or aeeurity of this king-
dom. As to honour, I hope, we are not be-
come such Don Quixotes as to expose our-
selves to an infinite expencc and infinite
danger merely for assistin^afine lady in dis-
tress. Such a behaviour might be great and
heroic in a private man, but can be neither
in a minister, because he neither exposes
fats person nor his estate in the adventure*
As to advantage, I cannot sav what the
dectorate of Hanover may have in its
view,^ over and above the advantages I
have already explained, but I am sure, this
kingdom cannot so much as aim at any ad-
vantage by assisting the queen of Hungary.
Our future security must therefore be toe
only thing we can have in view, and if
this measure should appear to have a ten-
dency towards making our future security
more precarious, surdy it is ihad in ift to
put ourselves to any such expence.
For' making this appear, SUr, I must
examine what is meant by the balance of
power, how it stood by the former systems
of affairs in Europe, and how itmuststand,
if it can stand at all, b^ any future s^tem.
From the accession or Charles the mkh, to
the Spanish and Imperial thrones, the
balance of power leaned towards the House
of Austria, and therefore it was the bu-
siness of this nation to side now and then
witli France, in order to pull down the
overgrown power of the House of Austria,
or at least to prevent its growing to any
greater height. In Henry the 8th's reign^
imdhis two next successors, our true m-
terest wta neglected and sometimes sa^
crifioed; but queen Blisabeth wiselv and
steadily pursued h, and thereby established
lae bdlance of power ; and what is most
Burprising, without putting the nation to
ImT great expence, or involving>it in miy
debt. By the emperor's being often in-
Tolved kk wars either with the Turks or
the princes of Germany, and by the stu-
pidity of the Spanish court, the French sit
Inst, in our Charles Ae lst*s reign, and
during the usurpation of €romweu,.bQgan
to get die ascendant, andfrom that time so
increased in power^ tiiat bdbne the Revo-
lution It was become formidable to Europe,
and therefore it was our business to join
with the House of Austria in pulling down
the power of France^ or in raising the
l>ow6r of that House, so as to nudce it near
an eoual match for France. This we did,
and did it effisctually, though we mutt say
at a monstrous expcaoe, fromthe Bcfola-
tion till the year 1721, when the bahnce
was so equal, that but a snudl aaatttnce
from the maritime powere might htve
turned it to which side they {^eawd.
But how. Sir, was this eqoslity eiu-
blisbed? Wherein did it coosist^ Not
singly in the dominions posienedbythe
House of Austria, but jointly io that
House's being possessed of those do-
minions, and at the same time in poflienkn
of the Imperial throne, with aprevsHisg in-
fluence upon the diet of the ecopire, by
which she was almost aure of en^sgiog the
empire in her ouarreL This, Sir, wsitbe
system upon whkh the balance of pover
stood in the year 1721 ; and if wiehsd not
then begun to shake it as well as desert it,
it might have stood firm tipon thtsbssisto
this very day. The electoral princes of
Germany were, it is true, jealous of tk
power of the House of Austria; butif ve
had stood firm, no one or more of them
would have ventured to have joined with
France against that House ; becsme »
long as she made no open attack aponthe
liberties of the empae, nor upon toe pro-
perties of any of the princes thereof, she
would aTways have had a minority of the
diet in her mvour. But our ooolsess to-
wards that House, and our deserting her
in the year 173S, gave the fint Uov to
her. power, and has now at kistovertuned
that system, upon which the balance of
Europe was established, at the exDesce of
hundreds of millions, and many mouwd
Uves^ to this unfortunate and iofttuMed
nation.
Is it now. Sir, in our power to restive
the same system? Is it in our power to
restore the House of Austria to her l«t
dominions ? Is it in our power to restore
her to the imperial thnone, ortothitifl-
fluence she formerljjT had upon the diet of
the empire? Sir, if it were in our power,
I do not believe it is in the will of osr mi-
Qisterv to do so. To humour an in^-
tuated and ill judging people, and to ac-
complish some of their own private eod^,
they may pretend to assist the queen of
Hungary; but if they could, I do not be-
lieve they would restore the power of that
House, so as to make it near equal to what
it was» or in any degree a match fortbe
kingdom of Fhmce. If they had soy eudi
view, I am sure it would be chimericau
because none will assist us, most of the
princes of Germany would unite sgsipit
us I nay, I do not know, if the fore^
troops we have new in our pay> ortk
««]
BmoiDmn Ttoeps into BriiUh Pay.
A. D. 174&
OMf
HaooveritM we aie Co take into our pay,
woold assist io carrying on any audi
scheme; for surely those troops would
not assist in.detfaronipgan emperor chosen
and aoknowledged by their own master.
Ftom hence* Str» it is evident^ that the
•balanoe of power cannot be established
upon its aneient basis; and therefore the
Dreaenring or diminishing the power of the
bouse of Austria can be of no great con-
cens to this nation* nor could l^ of any,
ever since the elector of Bavaria's being
choaen emperor. The only basis upon
which the balance of power can now be
established* is to restore a fiurm union and
good comspondenee among the several
princes of Germany, and to detach every
one of them, as much as possible* from
any alaviah dqiendence upon France. If
tfaaa had been our scheme, and it is the
only wise scheme we could propose* after
the emperor was choaen^ instead of send-
ing troops* we oudit to have sent ministers
(not such as we nave of late years sent
abroad) into Germany; in order to have
had an end put as spesdilv as possible to the
war in that countsy. Jui this scheme* I
believe*both the Dutch* the kangof Prussia*
and.the soferal circles of the empire* would
iuK^ joined with us more heartily tiian
they will do in any other* because it is
Ihevv AS well as our interest* to have an
endfmt to that war; whereas it is the in-
leeesl of France* to have the war continued
aaUa^[ as possible; because the longer it
ia continued* the more the princes ennged
will'weaken one another* the more £fi-
ecdt it will be to restore a good harmony
between them* and consequently the more
difficult il will be to restore activity or
fbroe to the Germanic body. That these
sve the politics of Fiance* we may see by
her whole conduct in the present war* by
her sending at first no very great force to
tbe assistance of the elector of Bavaria* by
her leaving the king of Prussia to fi^ht his
own battles* and by her now having in Ba^
▼aria only such an army as may enable Uie
emperor to continue tfaie war.
If peace had been restored to Germany
eoon after the emperor's being chos^s* he
would ne?er>have been under any slavish
dependence iqpon France* much less would
he have contributed to any increase of
power in such a daneerous rival: he soon
pecame sensible of nis being made a tool
hy France* for disuniting and weakening
the Germanic body: if he had been estab-
lished in his throne bv <«r mediaticm, he
ani^ probably* in a snprt time* have been
tvouxn.]
'become as great an enemy to France as
ever the House of Austria was ; and if we
had applied our whole strength to a vigo^
rous prosecution of the war with Spain
and towards defeating her schemes in Italy*
we might by this time have forced her to
submit to reasonable terms. But suppose
we had not : suppose the war had con«^
tinned between'Spain and us* and that
Franca had joined with Spain against us*
both together could not fit out a naval
force equal to ours* so that we might have
carried on the war with success against
both* and to the utter destrucUon both of
the trade and plantations of France ; for
without a superior fleet she could have de-
fended neither. If the peace of Germany
had been restored* and tne emperor estab-
lished upon the imperial throne by our
mediation* France would have had no great .
influence upon him* and much less upon
the Germanic body; and consequently
neither could nor durst have pretended
togivebwsto therest of Europe : becauseit
would probably have drawn that great body
unanimously into a confedenugr against
her; but if that body should be ruined by
a tedious and consumptive war* suf^Knied
at the sole charge of this nation* we shall
not only exhaust ourselves* so as not to be
able to maintain our naval force* hue
weaken the Germanic body* and attach
the emperor more strongly to France ; and
if the oueen of Hui^ary should at last be
obliged to submit, thus exhausted and dis-
tressed* we shall be left exposed to the
vengeance of Ftence and Spam* supported
bv an enraged and dq>enaent emperor of
Germany. In this case* indeed* it would
be in the power of France to give laws to
the rest or Europe* and to oblige all the
powers thereof to interdict us their ports*
if not join with her .and Spain against us.
From an which I most conclude* Sir*
that if our ministers mean any thinff by
sending our troops to Flanders* and taking
such a numerous bodjr' of Hanoverians
into our pigr : I sayt if they mean any
thing* besides that of imposing upon the
nation* and making a present to nis ma-
jesty of 6 or 700 fiOOL their measures will
render our future security more precarioua
than it would* or could have been* had
they put the nation to no such expence*
nor engaged it in any such romantic mea-
sures; because, by continuing the war we
weaken, perhaps jnay destroy that basis
upon which alone the balance can now be
established, and which can no way sufler
by taking from one and giving to another
96S}
16 GBORGE n.
BAate in the Commoni on ialang
m
of the German princes, at long as Fhuice
gets no part *er the spoil, nor Spain any
aaccess without first coming to an accom-
:modation with this nation ; for as to any
accession of power, Spain, or the princes of
Spain, may acquire in Itdy, it sign^es no-
tliing to ue general balance, because the
connection now subsisting between France
and Spain, can last no longer than the
present kbe of Spain's life, whidi cannot
oe of any long duration ; and upon his
death the ancient jealousy between those
two kingdoms, will very probably revive,
which would of course tnrow the power
and influence of Spain into the balance
against the overgrown power of France,
and would be a new and a very great ad-
ditional security for preserving the liberties
of Europe.
I know. Sir, I am aiding against the
general cry of the ignorant and unthinking
part of this nation ; but, I hope, our mi-
nisters are not to be reckoned amongst
that set of men. I shall grant that Uie
basis upon which the balance of power
stood established in the year 1721, was
more firm and certain than that I am now
reconmiendin^. Whilst it remained fixed
ttpen that basis, we could with more cer-
4ainty depend upon the Germanic body's
acting with vigour and unanimi^ against
France, than we can do, when the power
of the House of Austria is divided, and the
head of the empire without any great in-
fluence upon the body ; and therefore we
liave the more reason to resent the fatal
change that has been brought id>out, chiefly
by the weak or wicked measures of our mi-
nisters here at home. To preserve or in-
crease the power of the House of Austria
has been the cry our people have been
used to for threescore years past ; whilst
that power could be set up as a npatch for
Ihe power of France, it was a right maxim :
^ if it were now possible to do so, it would
still be a right maxim ; and therefore I am
not at all surprised, that this should still
continue to be the cry amongst those who
do^ not consider or perceive the impossi-
bUity of the thing : but every man who con-
siders the present state of Europe, must be
sensible of its being now impossible to re-
store the power and influence of the House
of Austria, so as to set it up as a match for
the power of France; because all the
.princes of Germany would dechire openly
against it: even the elector of Hanover
mi^ht, perhaps, as elector, declare openly
against it ; and if he should dedare against
it, I believe, the ministers of the kmg of
Great Britain neither would nor cooUact
vifforously in the prosecution of Boch a
sdieme.
I must therefore necessarily condnde,
that this cannot be the sdieme uponwhidi
our troops were sent abroad, or the Hsno*
verians taken into our pay; and ss I can
think of none othee, I must si^ipaie, tfast
our troops were sent abroad m order to
amuse the queen of Hungary, andpeiraade
her to reject the propositbns of pesos
made to her last summer, whidi were si
good, I believe, as any we can procure for
her, in order that our ministars rnvht,
firom the continuance of the war in Ge^
many, have a nretenoe, or aomesfaadovrof
an argument for persuading this nsficm to
take 16,000 Hanoverians jnto its psj.
The hon. gentleman says, we were obliged
to send our troops abroad, in order tocoo-
vince our allies c^ our being reeohed to
act with vigour, and to remove tfast op-
nion whidi our former conduct had in-
stilled into them. . Sir,ifournewiniiusteii
had sincerdy and heartfly jdned in ponisb-
ing those who had brought such a reproadi
upon their country, and in getting sadi
laws passed as the people think necenaiy
for securmg thdr liberties at home, it wodd
have been a much more efiectusl,aiida
much cheaper method of remoiiiig that
opinion whidi our late conduct w in-
stilled into the minds of foreip oomts;
for they dl know, from experience, tbtt
this nation both wiU and can act wiUi vi-
gour, when it happens to be underapo-
pular administration ; but that our gonni-
ment is of such a nature, that it never did,
nor ever can act with vigour, when it is
administered by men who have readered
themselves hated or despised by the people.
This we may be convinced of by the vi-
gorous resolution taken by the Dotcby as
soon as they heard of a duinge in our ad-
mimstration ; and the slackness that en-
sued in thdr counsels, as soon as tbej
found that that change was not like to be
agreeable to the people.
It is this, Sir, that has confounded the
counseh of all those who ooght to be our
allies. It is the unpopufauity of our go*
vemment, and the discontents atill rap-
ing among the people of this nation^ tMt
has convinced all toe courts of Europ^
that there is no dependence to be bad
upon, nor much to be apprehended from
any thing we can do; and this, pediap^
has defeated the bestscheme I em heard
mentioned for restoring the l'*'*"^?;
power, and settling it upon theoostMiw
S6SJ
Hantfoerian Troaps nUo BrSHA Paj^
A. D. 174S.
[96§
and lasting foundalioQ. I mean that of
drawins m the emperor, as well* as the
king of Prussia, from Uieir alliance with
France, and getting the whole Germanic
body to unite with the Dutch and us in
a confederacy for aggrandizing the House
of Bavaria at the expence of Fhmee. If
this could have been done, it would have
been a pnllbg down the power of France,
which 18 what we ought principallv to aim
at, and adding to the power of the Ger-
manic body, so that both ways it would
have operated for securing the liberties of
Europe ; but for this purpose all the par-
ties concerned must have acted with the
utmost vigour, which was not to be ex-
pected from this nation, whilst the discon-
tents of the people are not only general,
but too ready, I am afraid, to break out
into a flame. From hence, I am con-
vinced, that our ministers had not the
least view of procuring such a confederacy,
when our troops were first sent into Flan-
den, and much less can they have any
audi view at present. Nay, I believe, tfale
Dutch have expressly decutred against at-
tacking France, and whatever may be pre-
tended, however &r the pretence may be
pushed, I believe, none of our troops, at
least none of our auxiliaries, will actually
attack the emperor ; therefore I must sup-
]>06e, and next summer may probably jus-
tify my supposition, that after having made
a parade, and stript this poor nation of
four or five millions, we shall end where
we ought to have begun, in ncgociating a
peace between the emperor and the queen
of Hangan^, and such a peace too, aa^was
offered to her last summer, and would pro-
bably have been accepted by her, it we
had no way interposed.
For this reason. Sir, I hope, it will not
be said, I am opposinc the measures of
our ministers, when I aedare against our
entering into the war in Germany upon
the present footing. Though I argue
against their pretended, I am convinced,
1 do not argue against their real senti-
ments. WhiUever opinion I may have of
their int^rity, I have a better opinion of
their uncterstanding than to suppose, that
they would undefSedce such a romantie
scheme/as that of restoring the House of
Austria to its fimner power and influence ;
and therefore, I hope the hon. gentleman
will not say, that 1 alter my sentiments
merely because our ministers liave altered
their measures. I never was for war or
peace, merely because I saw the ministers
resolved to pursue the contrary
nor is this, I hope, ever a motive with any
Smtleman of this House ; but I paidon
e hon. gentleman fbr supposing that it is,
because it is very natural for gentlemen
fwho have hiid it down as a maxim, to bo
for every measure they find the ministers
resolved to pursue,) to * suppose, that
others oppose the ministers' measures
merely for the sake of opposition. Has
any genUeman, who demred for. a war
with Spain, as yet altered his sentiments I
Are not we stifl for a vigorous prosecu-
tion of that war i But this too may, per«
haps, be said to proceed firom a spirit of
opposition ; for it cannot be said, that our
ministers have ever yet prosecuted thai
war widi vigour, and of late diey really
seem to have quite forgot it.
Has any gentleman ever said, that we
were by ounelves alone to undertake the
cause of the queen of Hungary; and that
without the assistance of Uie Dutch, or
even of the elector of Hanover, we are to
restore her to die possession of all her
former dominions, to dethrone the em-'
peror, and to place the duke of Lorrain in
nis stead, not only in spieht of France and
Spain, but in spieht of the empire itsdf ^
Tliis, Sir, is the mUacy of the hon. gentle-
man's argument, when he tells us, we
shall be ^niilty of unsteadiness m ouropi*
nions and bdbaviour, if we do not como
mto such a scheme. All that has been
said, in parliament, all the dedaratkms or
addresses of parliament, for assisting tha
queen of Hungary, hive been upon this
condition, that the other powers, who aro
engaged by ti^eaties, and bound by interest
to support her, should join with us in as*
sisting her. This condition the hon. gen-
tleman has, it seems, forgot, I shall not say
wilfully, and now he chu'ges us with hav-
ing been formerly of opinion, that without
her bemg assisted by any, but ourselves,
there were reasonable grounds to hope,
that the balance of power might be again
restored, and the tranquillity of Europe
re-established. Is not this, Sur, a down-
rigfat misrepresentation of the fact ? And
since we now find, that none of the
powers of Europe will join with us in as-
sisting her, that even the electorate of
Hanover will not send her the 4,000 men
stipulated by the guaranty of the Prag-
matic Sanction, is it not a good reason
for our refiising to concur in a scheme,
which It is impossible to execute, and
which, by our joining in it, may render
the emperor more dependent upon France
than he otherwise would be, and cons4»
MT] 16OE0R6BIL
oiMnily dettrojrf cr tot mnd
Uutt basts, upon which akne Ihe baltaw
of power can now be esteblwhciJi.
The veiy reason gtren for oar taking
Uie Hanover troops into our pay, is a
proof of its being ndicofeu in us to think
of re-ettablisfaine the bahnoe of power
upon its former foundation^ and was oer*
tainJy the strongest argument that ooqld
be urged against this measure. The hon.
gentleman was so free ss to tell us, that
we took the Hanoverians into our pay,
because we could not get any odier. If
this be true, I am sure, we ought not
to have taken them, because it was firom
Aeace apparent, we could make no use
of them; and if we could at that time
have got imy other, we ought to hav^
taken any radier than those m Hanover ;
because by that means we might haw
engaged the prince whose troops we hired
to jom with us in espousing tm cause of
the ^ueen of Hungary ; and we -mmht
certainly have got the troops of any other
potentate in Europe, at a dbeSper rate
thsA we are now to pay for those of
Hanover ; for I couU shew, that we never
paid so dear for any troops taken into our
service, as we are to pay for these Hano-
verians, But as I thmk, and 1 hope have
demonstrated, that we ought not to take
those troops into our pa^ at any rate,
I have therefore no occasion to point, out
the several extraordinary articles that are
in the estimates now lying upon our table*
And as to their being ahready aaaiched
into flanders, I do not think, we can be
supposed to be thereby hud under any
obligatioo, either to make good the charae
of marching them thither, or to pay fop
xnarchmg &em back; beeauie it is evi-
dent, from our Address of httt session,
that we neither desired nor designed, that
his maj^ty should put tlie nation to any
charge in supporting tiie queen of Hua^
gaiy, unless ne was to be jomed by the
other powers equally conemied wini us,
and some practicable scheme formed for
givhig her such support as mi^t restore
the iNilance of power and estaMish it upon
a solid foundation. Therefore, as it is
not so much as pretended, Aat we ever
had, or have now the least hopes of sudi
a conjunction, if we do not comply with
this demai^d, his majesty cannot blame
bis paiiiament: he can blame mdy those
anusters that were so radi as to advise
tibe marching of those troops; and, I am
sure, oar constituents would lave great
i to Uame us, if we should lanrish
DUafe in ih9 CIsaisiow#iilaUiif
[9BI
swqr their m^ney, for no
but to prevent his nuges^s hmg
toUsmehis
Mr. Horatio Walpok:^
Sir ; I cenfiBss, I shooM hsfsbsm
no mj surprised, had the hcA. goritkiniMi
who made you this Botion« saved \m*
self the trouble of mphdmiy Ui nsan
for makmg it, or for our agresiaff to it;
for they are so clearly dednciUe ftosi
focts BO puUidy known, that when I fint
bMrdofthe march flfthoHantveiUoopt,
and of their being taken into the w^ rf
Great Britain, I was so for firom tfankotf
die measure wouki be opposed, thai I
imagined it would be highly appkniU
and readHv provided for. I etea then
began to think, that after we had agreol
to the proper resolutions for granting the
* ^* The first public measure which dlM
for the ezertions of Mr. Wal^le; after tbe re-
, was the moliM aide
signatimi of his hrether,
' the House of Commons, thtf lOthof Db-
174ka, by sir WiUiam Yoage,lopaat
of 865,190/. ID bis miiea^, ftr k-
the
fraying thechsrgo cf IS/XX) QsaoioiaiitRM^
in the ray of Great Britain.
^' Tois motion was ably combated by Pitt,
Waller, and lor^ ^arendon, who expitiatei
00 the usual topics of declamation, that, mtt
the aocesskm of the House of Bmnsfride, tbe
helm of the British goverameat batf hem an-
formly guided by the Hinsvci- loider. hn»
exHemely enihsnaariag to those ^asibentf
the new admioistratasa who hid lAmmif
opposedtbe measures of sic fUJiferi Walpok, u
wholly subservient to the interests of Hanofer.
Mr. &D<fy8, chancellor of the exchc^aer,gare
a silent vote b faroor of tbe qaestioo *, tat
lord PereevaU in direct eoutraidi<^ t6 bis
former principles, defended ft With greH
SbtUty.
Walpole opposed
veetive sfsinst Haaoter with
equally nositive, though, pMwhaps, equsUr n-
grounded ; that ia no one instance had toe ib<
terests of England been sacrificed to the m-
terestB of Hanover, but, on tbe contrary, tw
iiiterests of Hanover bad always been suban^
vient to those of England. It mostbeooo-
fiMsed, that he mamtaTned his positioB with a-
tteme address, and sappoitsd bis aiKrtiiBl
widi a luminous dedooboa of laflls, firasitBa
treaty of Utiecbt to the perM ia qasaioB.
«< The s|»eech of Mr. Walpole, en thiaMca-
sion, was gi?eu in several periodiesl paboct*
tions. I haye no doubt of ito au^enucitjiai
several of bis other speeches, is die subset
debates, appear to have been poUiabcd TerWiro
from copies in hk own baad-writiog, which tm
among iiis popeia.'* OmM Mcmsiitar Bs«
ladaLofdWslpok /
m
Hi
Tf^tfimhBriAhP»y.
A. D. 174ff*
[sro
of
Rfpliai nKmuarr for tbe MdmleBee of
iMse tncfBf I flhould have the ploMiire
o see this House unankiuHnly resohring
ipoD an Address of thanks to his majesty,
or shewing such a mark of his afiection
or these kmgdoms, as to lend as a large
lodj of his troops, when he thereby ex-
MMsd his own native dominions to the
lu^er ef being involved in the war, and
10 the hif^hest resentment not only of
PVance, but of the prince then chosen
Inparor of Germany, and head of the
inpire.
Sir> if we but consider die torn whkb
he afl&bre of Europe took upon the death
if the late emperor, there can be no oc-
maa to persuade us to agree to this
notion; and the least reflection must
Mmvinceust that that turn was not owing
(0 any misconduct in our ministen, but
neidy to the unforeseen accident of the
He emperor's dying, before any proper
nessores had be&k taken for giving him a
tnoeessor in the imperial throne: I say
mfiBceseen accident ; oecaose the late em-
peror was of a healthful robust body, and
lot very fiuradvanoed m years, no oneconld
breaee, no one could reasonably suppose,
hst hiB death was so near approacnbg.
fey this event hrapening at such an un-
Msonable time for the rest of Europe,
he French were encouraged to form a
icheme^ not only for giving an emperoi:
» Germany, but for reducing still fiir-
her the power of the House w Austria,
heir ancient rival, by parcelling out a
Kpart of her dominions, amongst
princes of Europe who should
ttpesr most attached to the interest of
nanee; and in both parts of this schane
ihe ftfUtid but too certain hopes of
nocess, 'frcm tbe ill-timed ambition of
fMoe of the princes of Europe, and a
Mttof panie fear in roost of the rest.
Id these circoiast&nces. Sir, what was
yb majesty to da f What was this nation
10 do ? If his majeslhr had been guided
1^ his ambition as otneH were, and had
newn no regard to any thing but the ex-
taneion of his Gemian doMinlDns, he might
MTtainly have purchased some addition,
by joining with the measures of' France,
br as he was king of Great Britain, as
irefi aa elector of Hanover, they would
psrtainly have thought it well wortfi their
thfle to have purchased his friendship,
sad hearty concurrence almost at any
nte. On the other hand, if he had been
nrodbyfsar, as some others seemed to
hate been, he would have remained qmte
inactivet without potting Uassrif or iUm
nation to any eiq;>eace, wUch would haw
deprived some gentlenien,bolh withindooca
and without, w the plcasuri^they seem t^
take in opposing what is now uadev am
Gonsi^onitiQB. But hia majesty was ttm
wise to be guided by either of those mo^
tives : he resolved to oppose the meaouriii
of France as nrach, ana as soon as it wa0
in his power ; for which purpose hd ht^
mediately ordered an angm^xtioD of hie
armies in Hanover, as wdl as in Great
Britain, to be ready to act as soon as m
fit opportunity dioiildoffiBr. Butas France
had been etidbled, by the ambition of some^
oowers in Europe, to form a most power-^^
ful alliance; as fear in others made it at
first impossible for his majes^ to form a
sufiicient counter-alliance ; and as his own
dominions were in danger of being iin*
mediately attacked, he was obliged t^
conclude a treaty of neutrality ; which
nentraKit|r, however, he wisely confined
to his 6erman dominions, wad to the
space of one twelve-month from the datow
Ao to that part of the French scheme
relating to the election of an emperor, hoi
majesty found it impossible to oppose it,
because a great majority of the eteetora
had positively resolved to concur in the
choice of the elector of Bavaria, which
resolution they had taken, not out of love
to the French, or from any fear of their
arras, but for two other reasons that were
bo^ very prevalent. First, to preserve
their right of election, and prevent the
House OT Austria's acquiring any pretence
firom prescription to say, that the imperial
diadem ought alwi^s to be continued ii»
that House ; and secondly, because there
was no male representative ^the House
of Austria, and it was not proper to chuae
the duke of Xorram, lest by the queen of
Hungary's dying without children, the
empire should come to have a head who
haa not dominions suffieient for support-
ing the lustre and dignity of the imjierial
diadem. These reasons prevailed with a
great majority of the electors to fix upon
the elector of Bavaria, and his majesty
finding it needless to oppose, concurred in
the election.
To these reasons, I may add, Sir, thM
most of the princes of the empire had
found the inconvenience of continuing the
imperial dignity so long in the House of
Austria, and had by turns felt the weight
oiihe power that House had thereby a^
quirlH, which was certainly grown so great
as talfb A'litdemeonsistem wMi the hber*
oil]
16 GEORGE IL
Debaie m ike Commons on UJuog
[Sn
lies of Germany^ however much it might
tend to the preBervation of the liberties of
Europe* Tnis was a third reason for unit-
ing tne electors in the interest of the
House of Bavaria, with regard to the Sec-
tion ; and was« perhaps, a reason tha( pre-
vailed with many ot them to &U in with
^e views of France, even with regard to
the lessening the power of that House ;
aspedally as France has all along taken
caite to persuade the world, that she had
;ao design to add any thing to her own
power or dominions.
J£ his majesty, had shewn a regard only
to the interest of his German dominions :
If he had been govemed by the maxim
that has long prevailed in Grermany, of
fulling down the overgrown power of the
louse of Austria; he would certainly
have jomed in the scheme for dividing the
dominions of that House, and might per-
haps have come in for a share, or at least,
aome equivalent ; but his majesty, in this,
as well as all his former measures, has
been, entirely ffoverned by the sole inte-
Tttst of iEnglana. He considered that as
the House of Austria is, the present and
rightful possessor of those territories which
are now called the Austrian Netherlands,
we might always depend upon that House
as our faithful ally, for that reason, which
chiefly prevails among princes, because it
is' her interest to be so. If ever France
attempts to extend her dcMninions, that
attempt will certainly fall first upon the
Austrian Netherlands ; but as she cannot
|»ropose to succedl in any such attempt,
till she has first brought this nation so low
as not to be able to prevent it, or esti^-
lished a government here that will not
endeavour to prevent it, therefore her first
attempt will undoubtedly be against us,
Or, at least, agamst our present happy
establishment ; but as the conquest of tne
Austrian Netherlands will be the certain
and immediate consequence of Ranee's
succeeding in any such attempt asainstus,
therefore we may depend upon the assist-
ance of the House of Austria, if ever
France should make any attempt against
us.
For this reason, Sir, even supposing that
the balance of power must now depend
upon the harmony and unanimity of die
Germanic body^ which, in my opinion, it
always did in tune past, as well as it must
do in time to come, yet it is the interest
of this nation to preserve the dominions
and power of the House of Austria as en-
tile 9s possible. This made his majesty
resolve to defeat the seooodpsit ofthe
French scheme; but as this was not to be
done without drawing off some of tkoie
princes that were at first engaged in tbe
French alliance, and as he foimd it impos-
sible to do this without giving ap some put
ofthe Austrian dominioDS, tbierefore ha
first attempt w8s,toprevaiLupoDthe coint
of Vienna to give sattsfiurtion to the kbg of
Prussia, and upon that prince to scoeptof
what the court of Vienna waswiUiogto
give. In this iiis majesty has sucoeded
better, or at least 80<mer, than could be
expected \ and the oonsequenoe of tfak
has been, a reconciliation between the
couru of Saxony and Vienna, with little or
no loss to the latter.
His mqesty's next care was, toproride
lor the safety. of the Austrian doDnnioDi
in Italy, and to defeat the designs of oar
declared enemiesthe Spaniards. Forthii
purpose it was necessary to prevail mtb
the court of Vienna to make some cessjoa
to the king of Sardinia, who maybesaid
to keen the keys (^ Italy, and toprenil
with that prince to declare openly agaiiist
the Spaniards. In this too his majesty ki
succeeded beyond aby hopes which the
most sangume could entertain s tweh^
month ago; and in order to weaken aoii
distress the Spaniards still moreinltalj,
he has, by his superior squadron in the
Mediterranean, not only locked on their
fleets in port, but compelled the nog of
the two Sicilies to declare fora neutnlitj*
These thines were all done, Sir, or re-
solved on, before our troops were sent to
Flanders, or the auxiliary troops, either of
Hanover or Hesse Caasel, were ordered to
inarch; but two thmgs still remainedto
be done, and that was, to secure the kiog
of Sardinia firom being attacked bj the
French, in conjunction with the Spousidiy
and to draw the Dutch out of tbtiue-
tlvity, which demur of being able to op-
pose the views of France had fiightened
them into. For both these purposes it be-
came necessary to form a numerous anny
in Flanders, and therefore his raajeslTf
early last summer, ordered a large bodj ot
his British troops to be transported to that
country ; but as it was not possible for us
to spare such a body of our own troopSf
as was necessary to form such an anny u
mi^t ghre apprdiensions to the French,
or courage to the Dutdi, his majesty was
obliged, not only to order tbe Hessiaosm
our pay to march, but to take another
larse body of foreign troops into our paji
and as his own Hanoverian troops weri
m
HatunHrian Troopf into BrkM Pay.
A. D. 1742.
[97*
Dt ofily the readitet at conlixiand^ but the
csmt to the phu^ of rendezvous, 16,000
f them were acobrdmgly ortoed to
larch to jom our army in Flanders.
This, Sir, has already had a very great
sd good efiect. The French not Imow-
fg what we might undertake, and being
■loos of the Dutch, were obliged to
iirch such a body of dieir troops towards
Isaders, that they could spare not so
nch as a regiment to join with the Sfm-
brds in oppressing the king of Sardinia,
id oompelhng him to desert the engage-
Ints he had entered into with his majesty
id the queen of Hungary ; and the Dut<^
ling by this army secured against any
idden attack from the^ French, have be-
Bi to entertain thoughts of joining with
I *in. -assisting the queen of Hungary,
Uch, I am persuaded, they will resolve
i;as soon as the forms of their govem-
iint will permit ; because when: they
dge impartially, and without being in-
KDced by any apprehensions of being
imediately swallowed up bjr France,
rsy must conclude, that it is dieir Interest
t well as ours, and upon the same ac^
mnt too, to preserve, as entire as possi-
B, the power of the House of Austria.
Thus^ Sir, in one twelvemonth's time,
e queen ik Hun^ary^ by the assistance
ihave given^her m money, by - our me-
Ition with the courts of Berlin, Dresden,
d Ttarin, by the influence of our army
Flanders, and fleet in the Mediterra-
an, and by the fidelity 'and bravery of
r own subjects, has been raised from
s, most forlorn, the most desperate con-
lion that ever aiiy princess, not abso-
iely conquered, was in, to a state of
nmphing over her present and most in*
lerate enemies in every part of 6er-
Hiy, and of rejecting with scorn those
ma of peace, which her enemies would,
k derision, have heard proposed by her
t a twelvemonth ago.
Prom this change in the face of affairs,
', we have good reason to hope, not
\f that the tranquillity of Europe may
speedily restored, and the balance of
pver re-establidied, btit also that we may
able, very soon, to forc^ Spain to sub-
t^'to reasonable terms of peace with this
iosi. Whereas, if we had sate still, and
iwed France to parcel out the Austrian
ninions as she pleased, what &tal con-
piences might we not have expected?
France would then have had no occa-
d for keeping up a very great land army,
i -vfould have disbanded a great part of
it, and applied all that saving towards re-
pairing and' augmenting her naval force*
A ereat nonri>er of ships might have been
buut in a year or two, and her land sol«
diers, as fast as disbanded, would have
been converted into marines, and sent on
board her ships, with a few seamen in
each, to instruct them in their trade. Bj
this means she might soon have provided
herself with a most formidable navy,' and
in the mean time she would have encou*
Td Spain to continue the war against us. •
have, Sir, as good, and perhaps as just
an opinion of our naval force, and of the
bravery of our seamen, as any gentlemaa
whatever ; ' but let us recollect, what a
figure France made at sea towards the end
of the last century, and even in the last
war in queen Anne's time. If w^ had
then haa no assistaiice from the Dutch^
we should not perhaps have found our-
selves such' an overmatch for the Frendl
at sea, as some people imagine we now
are ; and yet, during all that time, she
kq>t up most numerous armies at land»
Wnat then have we to expect, should the
vrhole treasure and strength of France, or
the greatest part of both, be turned to-
war£ gaining a superiority, or at least an
equslity at sea ? In the last two wars, we
gained, it is true, by the help of the Dutch,
several great naval victories over the
French, but it was not altogether by those
victories we beat them out of that element.
If I may/ be allowed the expression, by
land we beat them out of the sea. >Ve
obtained so great and so many victories at
land, that diey were forced to neglect
their sea affiiirs, in order to apply their
n^ole strength, both in money and men,
to defend their country, I may say, tKeir
capita], at land. Therefore, if both France
and Spain should join in a war agamst us,
and we should have no one to assist us,
nor they any enemy to fear at land, I
would not have gentlemen vainly imagine,
that we should be in no danger of losing
our superiority, even upon our own ele-
ment ; and if we did, what dreadful con-
sequences should we not have to appre-
hend ?
Thank God ! Sir, by the wise measures
his imajesty has taken, and is now abouif
we seem at present to be out of this dan-
ger; and in all those measures, I hope, I
have made it evident, that his majesty has
solely pursued the interest of Great Bri-
tain, even at the risk of his German do-
mmions. I am therefore surprised, how
any one can suppose, that the interest 6f
979]
16 GEORGE TI.
Great Brkftki hm, in any of our late mea^
fure^, been saoifilced to the interest of
Hanover; but as this scandalous r^ec-
tioo (Ibeff pjas^ for the expression, my
concern ror our present happy establish-
«aent forces it from me) has been carried
jasuch farther back than anjf of our late
measures, I must be^ your mdulgence for
removing that aspersion.
It is mipossiUe, Sir, to mistake the
jpirit by which the authors and propa^
. gators of this misrepresentation are ac-
IUiated» when we consider that tliey b^n
it with the very first transaction of a fo-
ireign nature, in which his late majesty was
engaged after his accession, and carry it
down from that time to this very day, pre-
tending, that not only our dispute with
£weden in the year 1715, but all our fo-
reign transactions since that time, have
Men governed by that influence which the
interest of Hanover has bad upon the
^ounsds of Great Britain, A misrepre-
iontation thus be^n and continued can
IMTOoeed from nothmg but a spirit of Ja»
i:4rt>itism, and a fixed design to render the
pe<M[>le oTthis kingdom disafiected as weU
as aiscontented ; and therefore it is the
duty of every man who is a friend to our
present Gappy establishment to set the af-
fair of Sweden, and all our other foreign
affiurs, in their just and true l^t, which
inay easily be done by any one that consi-
ders the dates of our negociations and
treaties, and the drcumstanoes our affiurs
were in at each respective Isme.
As to our dispute with Sweden in the
year 1715, it was so far from proceeding
from his late majesty's purchase of Bremen
and Verden, that it took its rise from what
had happened before his accession to our
throne. For several years before that
time, our trade had been interrupted in
the Baltic, and several of owr merchant
sh^ plundered by Swedish privateers or
pruizers. This we had complained of at
the court of Sweden, often before his late
majesty's accession; and as the Dutch
bad met with the same treatment, they
C' ed with us in these compkibts. We
jointly presented several memorials to
the king or senate of Sweden, before as
Upll as after his late majesty's accession ;
and when his^late miuesty found, that these
memorials had no enect, he at last resolv-
ed, in conjunction with the DuU^, to
send a strong squadron into the Baltic for
prote<^g the trade of both nations. Ac-
eordingly in May 1715, the British and
Dutfih squadrons sailed to the Baltic,
Deimte in tke Cwmam m Mt^ m
whereas the -trea^ between hii lue ■«
jesty, as elector or Hanover, snd^UM
of I)eiiniark, about the purcfassesTB^
men and Verden, was not oon^idei li
die 26th of July fdlowmg. ThereCoce^iti
evident, that our seodmg a sqoadnm m
the Baltic proceeded fitim his late ihm
ty's care of our trade, and not iroa n
engagements he was under by a ti«i
wluch was not concluded tQIiome i
The same cause made it necemjfc
us, and for ibe Dutch as^w^ m^t
send a squadron into the Bidtic is th
year 1716 ; and the behaviour of diekH
of Sweden towards this nation, made it |
last necessary for us tocometDannn
rupture, and to provide against the d«
of that violent and obstinate prince. bS
it is apparent, that in this whole Air h
tween Sweden and us, the intereitQfBi
never could have no manner of cous
and as little in the defensive sOisaoesM
dodedin 1716,between his late majoM
theemperor. Before and attbetimecifas
duding this allianoey the conrtof Fnsa
even after the regent's getting tiie gi
yemment solely into his muids, liad dd
evident indications of their beu^ indfa|
to prosecute a scheme concerted in id
late king's life time, for settioff the bl
tender imon the throne of &m lad
doms, lUs made it neceaaiy 4
his late midesty to provide for in ii
fence, which be did, nrst by proeori^s
accommodation of all diflerencesbeiiMl
the emperor and the states jgeoeniliiil
year 1715, and afterwards by tUtMl
sive alliance with the emperor in Ih ii|
1716. By these two treaties he m\
foundation for another grand oonMoM
against France, in case that cooit h^
persisted in her design of estaUiria^
popery and arbitrary power in d» U^|
dom, by placing a popish Pteteoder m
our throne ; and the fear of this had laa
an cdfect upon the late R^ent of Fim|
that it produced a tiiorouj^ cbaog^kli
measures, and made him court tiietM
ship inst^ of provddng the reaeslHl
of the late king.
His majesty having thus secured Ua*
self and his kingdoms against thottib
were contriving me destruction of IwlMv
next care was to secure the iwufSti
of Europe, which had been left ifSia
very precarious, or rather upon DOMsb
Hon at alL By the condua of iheieiti
had negociated that infamous treiqri 4
iaith and confidoMse had beea deiteefil
9773
Il^mqioeriqi^ Troops into Briikhfay.
A. D. rng.
[078
•n^oiig Ib^f^ who wete tho memhon of
that fornudable confederacy* which had
brought Fraoce to low, and would have
kept her ao, if it had heen preserved ; and
the dispute about the aucceasioo to the
Spanish monarchj was left subsiating with-
out any sort of agreement between the
two parties pretending to that succession.
By tbe tyro treaties 1 huve mentioned, his
late m^esty had entirely restored that
confidence* which formerly subsisted be*
tireen the three chief members of the
grand alliance ; b^t the disputOt or rather
an ofnen war still subsisted between the em-
per(Nr and Spain, and tlie latter was ac*
tually ipaidng preparations for its prose-
cution* so t^t something still remained
tob^ done for restoring and preserving
th§ tiancjuiUity of Europe ; and as the
T^nt or Fmnce was then willing to join
witA his late majesty in his pacmc mea*
surea, this produced first the treaty of Al-
liance and Guaranty between France*
Great Britain* and Holland* in the year
1717* by which we ohtdned the deitioli-
tion of Mardyke* and the banishment of
the Pretender from Avignon; and the
qniadruple alliance between the Emperor,
franco. Great Britain, ^nd Holland, by
which die dispute about the succession to
the Spanish monarchy was fuUj deter*
mined, and a method settled for compdl-
ing the king of Spain to agree to it, in
case it should be found, that no fiur means
would prevaiL
But, Sir, the king of Spain* after having
adjusted all his differences with us by the
treaty in 1721* agreed to submit all his
differences with the emperor to be deter-
mined at the oongresB or Cambray, and in
the m^ time to sun^d all manner of
hostilities. Thus the affairs of Europe stood
when the court of France sent back the
infanta of Spain, and the emperor set up
the East India Company at Ostend, which
quite changed the fiu:e of affairs in Europe.
The estabUshmeot of that company pro-
duced a difierence between thie emperor
and the maritime powers* the sending back
the infanta produced a breach between the
courts of France and Spab, and the letter's
insisting upon the restitution ,of Gibraltar
and Portniahon, created an uneasiness be*
Iween them and us; and all these joined
together united the courts of Vienna and
Madrid, aiid produced the famous treaty
between them, concluded at Vienna in
1725. By the very terms of this treaty it
was evident, that the emptor was re9olved
W cofopel the Ottijph aaSd m tosuhpoit to
(VOL. XII.]
the continuance of his Ostend conqpany,
aiad that Spain was resolved to force Gio*
raltar and rortmahon from us, and perhaps
to attack France, in order to revenge the
affron)^ put upon them by sending back
their infanta. These designs* I say, ap«
peered upon the very face of the treaty^
and from the most undoubted authority
his late miyesty had intelligence, Uiat en^
gagements were entered into by secret
article^ between those two powers, which
were of much more dangerous cqnse^
quence to Europe in general, 9^ well as ti
tJiis nation in particular.
By these open and secret engaffementf
between the courts of Vienna and Macbdai
tjhe tranquillity of Europe became exposeda
and the trade of this nation was in oangeq
of suffering from the nrivileges granted by
the king S Spain to Uie subjects of his im*
perial majesty. Here again his late ma«
jesty's care for the trad^ of this nation an4
the peace of Eurone, were manifested, by
his so speedily ana seaaonably concluding
the treaty of Hanover, and by the prudent
measures he afterwards tooK in drawing
other powers into that defensive aUiance^
and in preventing the return of the SpanisJi
galleons from America* without which nei«
ther the emperor nor Spain could come at
the sinews of war.
Bv these n^easures. Sir, the emperor and
the king of Spain were defeated in all their
ambitious schemes : the tranquillity of Eu*
rope was secured ; and the trade of this
nation restored to its former flourishing
condition. Can it be said, that the into*
rest of Hanover had the least concern in
any of these measures i Did it receive the
least benefit or advantage from any of
these treaties? On the contrary, by his
late and present majesty's declaring so
openly, and acting so vuporously against
the Ostend company, and the other pro-
jects of the court of Vienna, was not the
electorate of Hanover exposed to an im**
mediate attack ? So that it may be justly
said, that her interest and even safety has
more than once been sacrificed to the pre-
servation of the tranquillity and trade of
this nation ; for that it is again liable to an
attack by the measures now pursuing, and
particularly by those now under our cooai-
deration, I believe, no gentleman will ques*
tioo.
I hope. Sir, I have now fully removed
that wicked asperaioa which has been cast
upon his late and present maje^y's con-
duct : I hope* I have demonstrated* thai
Cbe interest o£ this, natioa neither ia wam%
• L*R1
*79]
16 'GEORGE IL
Dehaie in ihe Commoni on taUng
[990
Dor ever has been so much as once ncri-
ficed to the interest of the electorate of
Hanover; and, that all our treaties and
negociations, and in short all our foreign
measures, ever since the accession of our
presettt royal fiunily, have been either de*
tensive or preventive ; and the respective
events have shewn, that they were wisely
calculated for the ends for which they were
intended. I hope, therefore, the motion
now before you will be unanimously agreed
to ; for though it has been insinuated, that
the price we are to pay for these troops is
extravagant, it will appear at first view
to every one who reads over the estimate,
that aH the articles of expence are neces-
sary, and no one of them charged higher
than what is usual upon such occasions.
Our ready compliance with this motion
will convince the powers of Europe, that
the parliament of Great Britain is resolved
to concur with their sovereign in the most
vigorous measures for supporting the ^ueen
of Hungary, let the expence or risk be
what it will ; and this alrnie may suffice to
re-establish the peace of Europe, for both
the emneror and France will from thence
conduae, that they cannot pretend to pre-
scribe terms to a magnanimous princess,
supported by such brave subjects, and by
so powerful an allv. This of course will
incline tliem to submit to reasonable terms
of peace, and will prevent the French
king's aiming at uiv new addition to his
own dominions, which he may very proba-
bly accomplish, if we allow him to reduce
the queen of Hungary to any greater dis-
tress: for late experience may convince
us, that we are not to trust to his most so-
lemn protestations; and if this should be
the consequence of our refusing to com-
ply with this motiop, I believe, the gen-
tlemen who were the authors j)f tliat re-
fusal, would find it very difficult to answer
^ to their constituents for their ill-timed par-
* simony at such a dangeroas conjuncture.
Lord Quarendon:
Sir ; as the present unlucky situa-
tion of the affiurs of Europe must be ac-
knowledged even by those whose late con-
duct has been the chief occasion of it, they
have certainly good reason to endeavour
to assign an accidental cause ; but no man
who knows any thing of the late history of
Europe will allow, thait the cause they
themselves assign, was such a one as coidd
not be foreseen. The pretensions which
aome of the princes of Germany had to a
part of the Austrian dominions were well
known, and considering the ciicauMtoBcei
of the late emperor's woilj, it was higldj
probable, that he might die, before toy
proper measures could be taken for girbg
nim a successor to the empire. It migbt
likewise have been foreseen, that upoo thti
event's happening, the Bourbon fsniij
would endeavour to make their advantage
of it, by raising, if possible, a civfl war in
Gehnany, and appropriating some part of
the Austrian dominions to thenuelfeib
All tfiese things were known, or migbt
have been foreseen, long before we gua-
rantied the Pragmatic Sanction; aadtbe
fotal consequences that have ensued might
have been in a mat measure prevented, if
we had pursued proper and ▼porous mea-
sures twenty years ago.
For this purpose. Sir, we shoold hare
been extremely watchful to prevent, if
possible, any accession of power to tbe
House 'of Bourbon, or any diminution d
power in the House of Austria; and we
should have made use of all our infloeoce
at the court of Vienna to procure Moe
sort of satisfaction for those princes of the
empire, who had claims upon the domi-
nions, or pretensions to the succession, of
that House in case of the emperor's death
without male heirs. We should even have
insisted upon this as a condition previous
to our guarantying the Pragmatic Sanc-
tion ; •and if we htS, we might at least hare
obtained such a satisfaction for the king of
Prussia, as would have prevented his en-
tering into any engagements against the
House of Austria. Both these measures
it was the interest of England to pursue,
but both became inconsistent with the in-
terest, the claims, or the resentments of
the electorate of Hanover ; and every one
who knows any thing of our fordgn trans-
actions for twenty years past mayeasOy
judge, by which of these two jarring inte-
rests the counsels of this nation have been
governed.
I am extremely sorry. Sir, to see soy
thing like this become the sul^ect of
our debate; but when it does, and as often
as it may hereafter do, it neidier is, nor
ever will be the fault of those, who, from
the duty they owe to their countiT) endea-
vour to expose this untoward andunluckr
bias in our counsels : It is, and always wtil
be the fault of those ministers whosscii-
fice their sincerity to their complaisance,
and for the sake of gaining an interest in
the cabinet, betray the interest of their
countrv and of their sovereign. It was
natural, it was even laudable in his lata
981]
Hanoverian Troops into British Pay.
A- D. 1742.
[98S
majeaty to shew an afiection to bis Dadve
country, and the case is the same with his
present majesty ; but the very reason that
makes it kudable in him to indulge it, ren-
ders it criminal in a British mmister to
flatter it, or even not to oppose it, when
he sees that it is like to be prejudicial to
the interest of Great Britain. This a
British minister may often perceive, when
it is impossible for his master to perceive
it; for such is the weakness of mankind,
that our judgment is often blinded and
misled by our natural a&ctionst I am
persuaded, his late majesty would never
nave pursued any measure, however much
for the interest of Hanover, if he had per-
ceived it to be contrary to, or inconsistent
with the interest of Great Britain ; but'
the misfortune was, his affection for his na-
tive country, prevented his perceiving this
inconsistency, and his British minister,
upon whose advice he mostly relied, had
not the honesty to oppose what they found
their master naturally inclined to.
This, Sir, has been, and may aeain be
the case: I am convinced, .it/ is the case
with r^ard to this very . measure now
under our consideration ; but it can never
be a reason with any man of common
sense or common justice, for having the
least resentment against the person of his
sovereign, and, much less against the illus-
trious &n]ily now, upon our throne. It is
a very poba -reason for resentment against
such ministers.; and. upon them, and them
alone, the national vengeance ought to fall.
From hence, Sio^ it must appear, that
there can be nothing treasonable in any
British subject, either within doors or
without, to trace our public measures to
their original and geniune motives, and to
shew that they were founded upon such
as were inconsistent with tlie true interest
of Great Britain. If tfiere be any treason
m this case, it must be in those ministers
and in them only, who allow themselves to
be directed by such motives; for surely,
the man who discovers the treason is not
to be deemed the. traitor.
After what !> have thus premised. Sir, I
hope, I may., take the liberty to examine
into the grounds of the measure now before
us; and if it appears to me to proceed
from a greater regard for the interest of
Hanover, thah'^fSr* the interest of Great
Britain, I hone I, naiiay say - so, without
being guilty oi higK treason : if I did not,
I am sure, I should not perform that duty
which I owe to my country, especially as
a member of this House^ and consequent-
ly obUged to declare my sentiments openly
and freely upon every subject that comet
to be debatea here.
Now, Sir, if our public afifairs upon any
former occasion, have been directed by
such a motive, it is natural to susoect they
may be so again; therefore I wall first
take the liberty to examine some of our
foreign measures since the accession of
the present royal family ; and this liberty
I am the more entitled to, because an hon*
gentleman &as in this debate endeavoured
to vindicate all our foreign measures firom
any such aspersion, as he called it^ If I
can shew, that he has failed in his attempt^
and that every foreign measure he men-
tioned, proceeded from a greater regard
for the interest of Hanover than for the
interest of Great Britain, it will be an ar-
gument for our suspecting at least, that
le measure now under our consideration
proceeds from a motive of the same kind,
which will of course add weight to every
argument for shewmgthat it does.
To begin with the afiairs of Sweden, in
the year 1715. I shall grant that the
Swedish cruisers had given some interrup-
tion to our navigation in the Baltic for
some years before, but this they were ne-
cessarily obliged to do, because they were
then at war both with Muscovy and Den-
mark, and conseqjuently had a right to visit
all ships sailing m that sea, in order t9
prevent dieir carrybg any contraband
goods to the enemy. This we now do, on
account of our being at war with Spain.:
this all nations do, when they are at
war with any other nation. Perhaps the
Swedish privateers or cruisers were, m th«
exercise of this right, sometimes guilty
of acts of injustice or oppression : Perhaps
some ships or goods were seized and con-
demned without just cause; but I am con-
fident, we had very little of this sort to
complain of : I am confident, that upon a
strict examination many of the complaints*
made by our merchants, from which Mr.
Jackson formed the. demand he made
m January, 1714-15^ were found to be
groundless; and my reason for being so i%
because his late majesty did not insist upon
a compliance with that demand, or any
reparation in lieu of it.
Therefore as it is a nuoim with all nar-
tions, not to go to war, or td have recourse
to hostile measures, for trifles, I am i:on-
vincedy'We neither ought, nor would, upon
this accounts alone, have menaced and in-
sulted Sweden witli a hostile squadroii» ai
we'did in May following. ,
983] 16^ GEORGE II.
Surety, Sir, those gentlemen #bda few
yeAn since ai^ed M) strenuously for not
coming to a rupture wfth Spain, and for
acceptmg of such a mere trme, in lieu of
the many huAdred thousand po\hidS they
had robbed our merchants of, will not say,
that we ought to have gone to war with
Sweden, or to have done any thin^ that
tnight cause a rupture for the siSte of
65j000l, ev6n supposing that whole sum
bad been justly due to usf
Thus it must appear,,that the protection
pf our trade, or the reparation of the da-
mage that had been done to it, was not the
true motive for our sending that Squadron
into the Ualticl; we must therefi>re seek
for another, and we need not ^o fkr for it
I hope tlie hon. gentleman will not pre-
tend, that the purchase of Bremen and
Verden was a bargam nev6r thought of till
the very day the treaty waa concluded.
There must have been a negociation pre*
vious to the treaty, and considering the
difficulties with which it was attended, that
negociation must have lasted for several
months. As the treaty was concluded in
July, 1715, that is, in less than twelve
months after his late majesty's liccession,
I am convinced^ the purchase was thought
bf, and the negociation begun, before his
late majesty set foot upon English ground.
The consiaerations publicly avowed were,
Ithat his late majesty, as elector of Hano-
"ver, should declare war against Sweden,
Yiay 600,000 rix-dollars to the king of
Penmark, and guaranty to him the pos-
session of the duchy of Sleswick. These,
I say. Sir, were the consideratiotts pub-
licly avowed; but It is hij^hly probable
that there was ifli private consideration pre-
viously promised, which was die senaing
of a strong British squadron into die Baltic,
withbut which the kinff of Denmark could
not proceed in his design of making a
descent upon Schonen ; and that the king
of Denmark refused to conclude the treaty
for the purchase, till this squadron was
actualljr arrived in the Baltic. And fur-
ther it is probable, that, as another private
consideration for this purchase, his Danish
majesty Ukewise insisted upon the elector
ef Hanover's engaging the king of Great
Britain to guaranty his possession of the
duchy of Sleswick ; for it is impossible to
assign any other reason for our burdening
i^Urtelves with that guaranty.
Thebe public and private considerations
gfting agreed on long before the treaty
^mk signed, it became absolutely neces-
wy to find out flOiiie pretence f0ir
Debate in the Commoru on taking [984
a British squadron into dwBdlticiftafor
diis purpose a long aoooimt of dsmges
sustained by our merchants was naie oot
firom their coMplaints, and prolnUy was
ihade as high as those conmiidDts ceaU
possibly aSbnl rodm for ; which is soother
reason forsupponng, that the demBodmade
by Mr. Jacksoh in January, 1714-15, was,
Upon a atrict ezaminadon, IbaDd to be
without any just ground, at least as to the
greatest part of it ; for merdiants often
complain of seizures which, Qponenmmy,
appear to have been just, and agieeableto
the law of nations.
As the mterruption of our trade was
thus to be made tne pretence for sending
this squadron into the Bahic, and as the
Dutch had been interrupted in thdr trade
as much as we, in order to ghre an air of
truth to this pretence, it became abaolatdy
necessary to prevail with them to job as
with a few of their ships ; and if we con-
sider what they were then solidtiog at the
British court, we cacmot wonder at their
being a litUe complaisant to us in diis par-
ticular; for they soon after got a largt
sum of money allowed them by parliament,
for a debt they pretended to be doe to
them ; and in mvember, 1715, the fiunoos
treaty was concluded between die em^ror,
the states general; and his late majestr,
for securing to them their barrier, sod for
the yearly payment to diem of several
great sums or money, as well for maintab-
mg that barrier, as for the rehnbarsement
6f those which were then due to them.
If we had meant only the protection of
our trade, a few convoys woiud hare been
better than a great squadron; or if to pro-
cure immediate reparation and satisfaction
from Sweden, our squadron should have
insisted upon it, and have bombarded their
towns in case of /efusal. Whether oar
squadron made any such demand 1 knoir
not, but 1 am sure, it returned without ob-
taining it, or shewing any resentment at
Its being refiised ; so that with regard to
the end for which this squadron was pre-
tended to be sent, it had a quite contnt^
effect, for it at last produced an open war
between Sweden and us, which put an
entire stop to our trade with that kingdom,
and during that king's life was a gnat
obstruction to it in every other part of the
Baltic.
Thus, I think it is evident, or at lost
highly suspicious, that our war with Sweden
proceeded from our having a greater re-
Sard to the interest of Hanover than to
leinteresl tf Great Britaitti nut this sitf-
1
985]
Hiina*erian Tntopt into dritisk Pay.
A. D. 174S.
im
picion will be greaOy straigtt^ned, when
we consider the iiuuiner in which that war
was put an end to. As the hte king of
Sweden waa fiolent in all his passions, and
obstinate in all his tesolntions, whQe he
lired his late majesty could never obtain
from S#eden a surrender of their right to
the duchies of Bremen Imd Verden, upon
tarj coQsideiUtion whatever; though it was
gtroDgly soficited and an offinr made, that
Grtat Britain should iipon that coi^ition
join with him agiunst Russia; as appears
from a memorial preirented to this court bj
the Russian minister in Marcl), 1716-17.
Bot upon the death of that kmg the
Swedes resolved to ^ve up for a valuable
coniideratioa, a right whichy they knew,
th^ codd not recover, and thererore by a
preuminarj treaty concluded in July, and a
definitive one in November, 1719, between
the queen of Sweden and his late majesty^
as elector of Hanover, they yielded up to
his majesty the said two duchies, in con-
sideration of a millidn of rix-dollars, which
was the only consideration mentioned in
the treaty ; biit flrom what followed very
soon after, we ma;^ easily perceive, it was
Dot the onljr one m the negociation ; for
so soon, as in the month of JUnuary fol-
lowing, a XfeAiy of peace and alliance was
concluded between his late majesty, as
king of Great Britain, and the queen of
Sweden, by which his malesty gave up not
only all ilie pretended demands we had
upon Sweden, on account of damages done
to our trade before the war ; but also all
the real and just demands we had npbn
that crown during the war : and ftrUier
his majesty promised to assist her Swiedish
majesty, as soon as possible, with subsidies
andsoldierB^ in her war Against the Csar of
Muscovy, and to continue that assistance
till a peace should be restored.
Sir, can any motive of a true British
growth be assigned for such a treaty?
Considering the distre^d condition Swe-
den was then in, generosity and compas-
sion might have induced us to release or
suspend a demaiid, whfch that unfo^rtunate
nation was not at that time able to satisfy ;
hut no such motive, noir any advantage
Britain could reap from an aUiance with
Sweden, could induce us to put ouitdves
to such an expence, or expose ourselves
to the danger of a war with Muscovy ; nor
had this nation the least reason to find
fiiuit with the conduct of the Czar ; for he
did not so much as seem to aim at a con-
quest of Swecfen: he aimed only at getting
his conquertfd proviuGies iipon the Bbhlc
secured Co hun, and this we MMti faivt
supported him in, beeaose they openeiA %
direct trade, between ui Una Miasoovyi
which has been of great advantage to us^
and may hereafter be of much greats*
Yet in consequence of this treaty, we gavQ
aUirge subsidy to Sweden, t^50,6oM.J
and sent a powerful squadron into the
Baltic, which produced a sort of war be^
tween us and Muscovy : I say, a sort of
war; for the C2ar was so conscious of the
influence we were under, that in his ma^
nifesto upon that occasion, he said, he de«
dared * war against the king, but not
against the people of England, which waa
a precedent, I wish, we hM followed in our
present wiir with Spain.
I tnust therefore conclude. Sir, that in
die negociation between his late majesty,
as elector of Hanover, and the queen of
Sweden, it was stipulated that the eleetot
of Hanoyer should prevail upon the king
of Great Britain to conclude this treaty i
and that though it was signed two montfia
after, it was agreed on l^fore the treaty
fdr the cession of Bremen and Verden watf
definitively concluded. Consequently I
must suppose, that our peace with Sitredeoi
as well as our irar, proceeded from a greater
regard for the interest of Hanover tiian
for that of Great Britain.
I shall, indeed, grant, Sir, that though
Britain had no fkult to find with the con-
ductof the Czar, yet theelector of Hanover
had on account of the affidrs of Mecklen*^
burgh, which the Czar had intermeddled
in, because of the near relation between
him and the unfortunate duke of that
name; and as this aflair will contribute to-
wards discovering the true motives of some
of our other public measures, I shall beg
leave to explain it.
With regard to this dnchy, there had
been a very old fiunily compact be*
tween die elector of Brandenburgh, now
king of Prussia, and the duke of Meeklen*
burgh, by which, in fhilure of heirs male
of ^ther House, the other was to sueceed;
which contract had been apprbved and
confirmed by several emperors : diis gav^
the family of Prussia an mterest in the a^
fairs of meddenburgh, and a view of mak*
ing it one day their own. On die olhet
hand, as this duchy lay eontiguoos to <M
domfhions of the bruhswick family, and
wouM be of great advantage to them, hj
giving them a communicadon with tlie
Baltic, as Bremei!^ and Verden does with
the German oceah, we miij auppoee, thuej^
have long been cdntritii^ «oaemeto Afr
«WJ
le.GEORGfi II.
Debate in the Commmu cnn taldug
[988
fettiog haU of it* In 166^9 a diipute be-
gan between the dukes of Mecklenburgh
and the noble families of that duchy, which
cootinues to this day : in this dispute the
family of Prussia has always taken the
part of the duke, and the family of Bruns-
wick that of the nobles; and in ITOS, or a
litde before, the latter obtained from tlie
imperial court a protectorlal commission,
directed to the king of Sweden and duke
of Wolfenbuttle, as directors of the circle
of Lower Saxony, to take into their hands
the administration of the government of
that duchy.
In these circumstances that duchy stood
when the Czar marched his troops mto it,
in &your of the duke and a^amst the
nobles. This could not but give offence
to the family of Hanover, not only on ac-
count of their having (ilways taken the
part of the nobles, but because baron Be-
rensdorf, at that time one of his late ma-
jesty's principal Hanover ipinisters re-
siding here, was descended of a noble fa-
mily m Mecklenburgh, and had made con-
siderable purchases there* Accordingly
his late majesty left no stone unturned for
getting the Muscovite troops removed out
of that duchy ; and here likewise this na-
tion was made to interfere by its ministers
. at several courts in Germany, of which the
Czar complained heavily in the memorial
I have mentioned, which was presented to
this court in March, 1716-17* At last, by
the interposition and weight of Uiis nation,
the Muscovite troops were removed ; and
by the same influence a new protectorial
commission was granted in 1717, by the
imperial court, to the elector of Hanover
and duke of Wolfenbuttle, who, without
any anparcnt cause, marched in such a
large body of troops, as not only con-
sumed the whole revenues of the duchy,
but run it vastly in debt every year, which
debt, by the laws of the empve, was to be
discharged befor.e those troops could be
removed ; and consequently a foundation
was laid for the perpetual possession of
that duchy; because the mortgage would
in a short time have exceeded the pur-
chase.
. I shall by and by have occasion. Sir, to
' take farther notice of this aSmr of Meck-
lenburgh, and therefore shall now con-
clude it with observing, that from every
circumstance it must appear, that our war
both with Sweden ana Muscovy was en-
tirely owing to a peculiai^ and partial re-
gard for the electorate of Hanover, and
isspecially to the purchase made by his
Ute miyestT of the duchies of Bren^o or
Verdcn. Whether this nation pud aay
part of the purchase money either to Den-
mark or Sweden, I do not say; but it is
certain that these two wars cost us an in-
finite sum of money, besides the iDtemm-
tion given to our trade ; and I must ob*
serve, that in the beginning of the year
1717, 250fiO0L was granted to his late ma-
jesty for providing for our defence i^aiiist
the designs o£ the then distressed and
oppress^ kinff of Sweden,*whicfa sum wag
never to this day accounted for, nor could
it ever be discovered to what use it was
applied: and I must ferther observe, that
in the year 1720, the very year afier the
million of rix-doUars was to be paid to
Sweden for the purchase of Bremen and
Verden, a provision computed at 600,OOOL
was made oy parliament^ for paying offthe
debts of the civil list ; and because tliis
provision did not bring in above 500,00tf.
therefore the very next year, a fiuther
sum of 500,000/. was granted by pailia-
ment for the same purpose ; so that in
these two years, we paid no less than
800,000/. for making good the debts of the
civil list, notwithstanding his late uli-
jesty^s having then been but six years
upon our throne, and his being provided
with a much greater civil list reveniie
than had ever been enjoyed by any sove-
reign of these kingdoms. Whetlier any
part of this 250,000/. or of our civil list
revenue, had been applied towards pay-
ing the purchase money (^ these two
duchies, I shall leave to some future im-
partial enquiry, if ever this nation should
be so happy as to see such a one set on
foot.
My subject hitherto. Sir, may 9^peai
unaccountable, but what 1/am now to
enter upon must astonish. .ThVm'easures
we were by a Hanoverian, influence led
into, with regard to Sweden and Muscovy,
were attended with no bad consequences,
save that of leading the nation into a need-
less expence, &d.an ^unnecessary inter-
ruption of a small branch of its commerce;
but what we have by. the same influence
been led into, with regard to the Hoose
of Austria, have not only put us to a mucii
larger es^pence, but have interrupted our
trade in all its most valuable ^branches,
and have., at last .de Jbnd ,^. contLU^
overturned the balance of [^wer in Europe.
In order to shew this, I mi|st^Mfflfiider how
the afl^irs of Europe !.w«re7left by the
treaty of Utrecht, 'and^pVthey stood at
his late majesty's acc&aon'to toe throne
m
Hanoverian Troops into British Pay.
A. D. 1742r
tJWO
rhe treaty of Utrecht, Sir, which has been
he bufletting stock of all our little poli-
iciaos smce that time, and which has been
Qcessaotljr exclaimed against, even bj
hose who have since shewn themselves to
te arrant bunglers in treaty-making : the
reatf of Utrecht, I say. Sir, if the parties
Uen V concerned in the srand confederacy
n/m. but have satisfied themselves with
rfaat was reasonable, had established the
«Iance of power upon a solid basis, and had
nd a foundation for a contest between
Ihuice and Spain, which could hardly
iuts of taking place upon the death* of
[lewis 14th, who by the course of nature
Kwld live but a very few years.
It was not, Sir, the treaty of Utrecht,
mt the insati^le ambition of the emperor
bd the Dutch, joined with an error in the
int concoction of the grand confederacy,
rhich broke the confidence that ought to
ia?e been preserved among its chief and
mnal constituent members. That error
ltd made it impossible for the allies to
Mmdude a treaty of peace with mutual
muent; for surely no man of common
one will say, that ft was our interest, or
hat we ought to have united the whole
Ipanish monarchy with the imperial dia-
lem, and the dominions of the House of
luBtria, in the person of the late emperor
ijiarles. This would have been ridicu-
W18': it would have destroyed the very
nd for which the grand confederacy was
ionned; and as no provision had been
bade by the terms of that confederacy, or
If any future treaty, for the case of
llliaries's succeeding to his brother Jo-
l^h, there was no possibility of prevailing
rith Charles to join in any treaty or ne-
[odation, b^ which the Spanish monarchy
^ to be given to any otner person.
On the other hand. Sir, the Dutch be-
ame so flushed with the success of the
ionfederate arms, that they began to think
if making themselves entirely masters of
he Spanish Netherlands, as appears evi-
lent, I think, from the Barrier treaty they
Wnight us into in the year 1709* It was
Ub treaty, Sir, that gave the first shock
D that confidence which subsisted till
ben between the confederates ; for it was
^eluded without any communication
nth the court of Vienna, and the empe-
Of, as soon as he heard of it, protested in
be strongest terms against it Surely no
nan will say, it could ever be for the in-
vest of this nation, to have the Dutch
aade masters of the whole or the greatest
Ht of the Spanish Netherlands; and. yet
this would have b^en the case, if they ha4
got a liberty to put as many troops ai
they pleased, and when they should think
necessary, not only into the towns ex-
pressly mentioned, but into all die towns,
places and forts in the Spanish Low Coaih>
tries, which Was what they stipulated, and
we agreed to, by the 6th and 7th articles
of that treaty.
These circumstances, Sir, and these
ambitious views in om* two chief allies,
made it apparent to us, that it would be
impossible to begin and carry on any
treaty of peace, with mtitual consent and
satisraction ; and as it was not our Interest,
nor, indeed, in our power, to carry on the
war much longer, it became abiM)lutely
necessary for us to begin a treaty by our*
selves. I shall not pretend to justify the
treaty of Utrecht in every particular ; but
if we impartially examine, and candidly
judge of all circumstances at that time, we
shall not find reason to join in all tiie re^
proaches thrown out daily against that
treaty, by those who have since made se*
veral more destructive, more dishonoura**
ble, and more ridiculous treaties than
were ever made by this nation. By^tiiat
treaty we obtained even for those allies
thbt would not join with us in it, all that n
had been stipulated by the grand alliance :
we raised considerably the power of the
House of Austria : we reduced the power
of France low enough, if proper measures
had siAce been taken to keep it so ; and
we laid a foundation for a contest between
France and Spain, which actually took
place within one year after his late ma-
jesty's accession to the throne of these
kingdoms. But as the imperial court
would not agree to what had been stipu-
lated with regard to Sp&in, though there
was a cessation of hostilities, the war con-
tinued between the emperor and Spain at
the time of that accession, and for several
years afterwards. And as the Dutch were
unwilling to depart from the Barrier treaty
I have mentioned, and the emperor re-
solved not to agree to it, the regulation of
that Barrier remained unsettled between
them and the emperor, at the time of his
late majesty's accession.
These, Sir, were the circumstances of
affairs at the time, or soon after . the time
of his late majesty's accession. We had
no interest, we were under no engagement
to interfere, any other way than by oar
good offices, in the disputes either between
the emperor and Spain, or between him
and the Dutch ; and we had .nothing te
«9i3
16 O^OftGB H.
Debate in ike Ccntmons on takiag
[m
Jmt firovi f r«Qce, espeoiidlj after the x^
Mfi»t gol tbe gov^rno^at soldy into his
E«d48; for Spain began imniediately to
iiBttngve against hie^t and thia it was, and
,iiot our defensive alliance with the empe-
ror, which uMide the regent of France
cpurt our friendship and alliance.
In these circumstances. Sir, what had
we to do but to live in peace with all our
neighbours: to avoid carefully entering
into any new engagements ; and to think
of nothing but the utmost economy with
regard to our domestic affiurs» in order to
pay off that great load of debt, and clear
away that monstrous heap of taxes, under
wkib the people of thi# nation then
ffroaned, ana are groaning to this very
2|iy. This was the interest of England :
but the interest of Hanpver was to make
use o[ the power and riches of England
for increasing its territories, and this our
British ministers ou^ht to have opposed
with all their might, if they had faithful^
iwrved either their king or their country,
Pjd they do so ? No, Sir, I have already
jhewn, how they allowed their country to
be involved in two wars upon that sipffle
account. But this was not all: by tne
treaty with Denmark the electorate got
possession of Bremen and Verden: the
next thing to be thought on was, how to
aecure it, and to obtain the investiture
from the emperor and empire: for this
purpose England was to enter into new
engagements with the emperor, and to
rraotee all the possessions he had, at
very time that Spain was preparing to
attack his* island of Sardinia; and this
without stipulating any one thing for our-
j^Ives, or any one concession for putting
an amicable end to the disputes between
him and Spain : yet this was agreed to by
the treaty in May, 1716.
. It was impossible. Sir, not to foresee,
that a war with Spain would be the con-
aequence of this encragement. Was it then
the interest of England to enter into it i
We knew the emperor was able enough,
notwithstanding his war with Uie Turks,
jto defend himself against the Spaniards in
Italy ; and surely neither the interest of
England, nor the balance of power, could
aufier by their taking the island of Sardi-
liia from him. But the emperor on his
part promised to guarantee ail his late ma-
jesty then enjoved and possessed, in which
Bremen and Verden was included; and
&rther it is to be supposed, that the em«
ror promised, at least verbally, to grant
; late majesty a protectorial comtnsnoa
for the duchy of Meckleoburrii, lad to
grant him the investiture of Branen and
Verdea, as soon as Sweden could be pre-
vailed on to yield up her right. Tbese
two promises, I say, are to be ^apposed,
because the pirotectorial commisaon for
Mecklenburgh was actually granted the
year following, and because our court
writers have since asserted the other, aod
reproached the imperial court with breach
of faith in that respect.
These favours for Hanover, %r, were
by our mmisters allowed to be a sufficient
consideration for England's entering into
an engf^ement, which would certainly
involve her in a war with Spain. But be-
fore I leave this famous treaty^ I most
pbserve, that the two contracting parties
ei^gaged to defc^pd fmd preserve, not ooIt
all they then actually possessed, but a!)
they should afterwards by mutual cooseot
acquire in Euri^e. It is evident, that
this additional engagement had no x^
tion to Engknd, bemise it is against oor
interest to acquire any thmg in Europe;
but both the elector of Qanover and the
emperor had each a view in this engage-
ment. The former was, if possible, to
ac(}uire Mecklenburgh, ioA the latter the
fruitful island of Sicil;^ in exchange for
the barren one of Sardinia. This the em-
peror had insisted on from the time of his
late majesty's accession ; and probablj it
was brought into negociation at the time
this defensive treaty was neeodatei I
say probably, because if the dtue of Savoj,
then king of Sicily, had not known that
this unequal bargain was to be forced opoo
him, he would have made a much better
defence against the Spaniards when they
attacked Uiat island than he actuaUj did;
for he in a manner surrendered it up to
them as soon as they landed. And pro-
bably the king of Spain would never ba?e
attacked that island, if he had not bon,
that si scheme was fonned for conqidliDg
him to renounce the right of reversion u
to that island, whidi 1^ had reserved to
himself by the treaty of Utrecht; for the
court of Spain had certainly heard of tfaii
scheme, before they attacked Sicily, be-
cause it was finally settled and made a
part of the Quadruple alliance, wbidi vai
concluded m July, 1718.
Having now done with the motivest I
shall next. Sir, consider the consequeooei
of this defensive treaty with the emperor.
As he absolutely refused to come to anj
terms of acGonunodation with theSpanisids,
they i^ttacjked mi took pos^won <tf S»'
HatMoerian Troops mto British Pay-
A. D. It42.
C99t
dinia k tke year 1717. Upoa this event,
he called apon ub to perfonn the guaranty
we had entered into the year before ; and
as he had then granted hia late maiesty
the prolectorial conuniaaion for Medden-
burgh, and aeemed atill willing to grant
the inreatiture of Btemen and Vetden,
ai soon aa Sweden coidd be brought to
oonaent to k, we engaged in hia quarrel
vidi a Boat extraordinary seal, attacked
and deatroyed the Spaniah fleet in 1718,
aod put him in poaaeaaioo of Sicily, and
the duke of Savoy in poaaeaaion of Sardi«
oia, before the year 1720.
Though it waa not the intereal of thia
kiogdom to engage with the emperor in
this war with Spain; yet havine once
eogagedy it waa certainly both our mtereat
and our duty to contimie and puah the
war to] we could brinff our ally, aa well
as oursehrea, off with honour and a rea-
sonable aatia&ction; but the intereat of
Hanover, unlucky for ua, took thia year
a new turn, which prevented our perform-
log our duQr either to ouraelvea or our
ally. For explaining thia, I muat obaerve,
that in November, 1719, the definitive
treaty between hia late majea^, aa elec-
tor of Hanover, and the queen <k Sweden,
«as oonduded, bv whicti ahe yielded up
her right to the auohiea of Bremen and
Verden*; and uoon thia it ia to be aun-
poaed, an appueation waa made to the
court of Vienna, for having the mveatiture
fiffthwithgraated ; but a new obatadepre-
aented itaelf, which waa the daim or the
duke of Udatein to thoae two duchiea.
As that prince waa the aon of the king
of Sweden'a eldeat nater, he waa, by the
laws of the empire, which could not be
altered by any regulation made in Sweden,
the lineal auoceaaor to thoae two duchiea,
and aa aach he put in hia daim, which
the emperor could not but allow, and
thecefore refiiaed granting the inveatiture
without a aurrender from that prince. I
must likewiae obaerve, Sir, that the duke
of Mecklenburgh, aupported by the Czar
and long of Pruaaia, appKed to the court
of Vienna for an order to the elector of
Hanover and duke of Wolfenbuttle, the
protectorial commiaaionera, to bring in an
account of hia vevenuea, and their de-
tnanda upon hia duchy ; and the emperor
waa ao uncomplaiaant, though I cannot
aay unjuat, aa to iaaue auch an order, or
Rescribator, aa it ia called in Germany,
dated AprU 83d, 1720.
Theae, Snr» were two atrokea which
could never be forgiven by the dectm'ate
IYOL.XU.]
of Hanover ; and the firat meAod it took
to ahew ita reaentment, waa to peraua^
ua to make up at any rate aaeparatepeace
with S^pain, which we did the very next
year, vqpon terma not verv honourable, to
aav no worae ; for we acxnowledged our-
advea in the wnMig, by promiaing to re»-
atore the men of war we nad taken from
them in 1718, and hia late majeaty waa
induced to make a aort of promiae, by a
letter under hia own hand, to reetore
Gibraltar to Spain. So little waa the in-
tereat, or even tlie poaaesaiona oS England
minded fay our miniaters, when their pr^
aervation became inconaistent with the re-
aentment of the dectorate of Hanover
againat the emperor*
Thua, ISr, the electoral reaentment
began to ahew itadf affainat the Houae of
Auatria ; and thia haa been the true cauae
of the many wrong atcjpa we have made
aince that time, by which that Houae haa
been reduced to the lamentable atate it ia
now in ; for the late emperor waa ao far
from endeavouring to mollify thia reaent*
ment, that he rather aharpened it by hia
aubaequent behaviour. From the year
1720, ne conthiued to aend auch Reacri-
batura aa I have mentioned, yearly or hdf
yearly. In 1722, he reduced the elec^
tor of Hanover'a daim upon Mecklen-
burgh, which amounted to aome millioQa
of (feUara, to between 6 and 700,000; and
upon hia late majeaty'a death, he rdfuaed
to continue hia protectorial conuniaaion to
hia preaent majeaty, but inatead thereof,
granted the adminiatration of the duchy
to duke Chriatian Louia, brother and pre-
aumpthre heir to the ]^reaent duke ; wnich
adminiatration he poaitively refiiaed to re-
voke, notwithatanoing all that could be
done, by the mediation of France, at the
coogreaa of Soiaaona hi 1729. Thia con-
tmued the reaentment of the electoral
Houae againat the impend, and it ia thia
reaentment that waa the true cauae of our
treaty of Hanover in 1725 ; of our being
ao r^y to join in an dliance with France
and Spain in 1729, for compelling the em-
peror to admit the Spanish trocma into
itdy ; and of our leaving him to anift for
himadf in 178S, when he waa attacked by
France, Spain, and Sardinia. Our aban-
doning him at that time waa but too cletir
a proof of our not being sincere in the
guaranty of^e Pragmatic Sanction, which,
through neceaaity, we had granted him but
two yeeira before: and thia ^ve encourage- ^
ment to that attack which is now carrying
on againat the queen of Hungary.
90»j
IB GEORGE U.
DAaU in the CanuUMS 6n ialAig.
[995
It 18 emjf Sir, to find some other spe-
dou8 pretences for all these measures;
but those have already been so often»
and so fully refuted, that I shall not
take up your time with a repetition, and
therefore, I shall now examine our con-
duct, since the late emperor's death.
Upon that unlucky event, (I say unlucky.
Sir, for it had been made so by our con-
duct for above twenty years towards the
House of Austria) every one might have
foreseen, that the oueen of Hungary would
be attacked by tne elector of 6avaria,
supported by France, if they found any
reason to hope, that she was not to he
assisted, hi the most sincere and vigorous
manner, by the maritime powers and the
united force of all or most of the other
princes of Germany. This it was the
mterest of England to do : this it was the
interest of Irolland to do: this it was
the true interest of all the other princes
of Germany to do ; but the chief and most
potent of them, the king of Prussia, had
some old claims upon the House of Aus-
tria, which were certainly to be satisfied,
before it could be expected, that he would
act with sincerity in favour of the queen
of Hungary. Nay, it was very much to
be apprehended, toat he would join asainst
her, if immediate satisfiiction shoukl be
refused. If the British court had been
, actuated by a true British spirit, they
would have stipulated satisfiiction for him
before they had guarantee the Pragma-
tic Sanction ; but in this too a Hanove-
rian spirit ^prevailed over our councils ;
for there had been long an emulation and
a jealousy between the fiimily of Btanden-
burgh and the family of Brunswick, and
to ti^is the late king of Prussia had added
particular disobli^tions, by his not se-
conding our views in Uie treaty of Hano-
ver, by his supportine the duke of Meck-
lenburgh against us, by renewing the old
family compact with tliat duke in the year
1726, and by another incident of a more
domestic nature. For this reason, we
could not bear to think of stipulating
«ny addition to tlie Prussian dominions
on the side of Silesia, without whidi we
could not expect his assistance in our
guaranty of the Pragmatic Sanction ; and
yet, if our ministers were sincere in that
guanmty, which there is great ground to
question, it was ridiculous to think of it,
without securing the assistance of IVussia,
by procuring him at least a stipulated
satisfaction, to take place upon the em-
peror's death, with regard to bia claims
^pon Silesia*
But, Sir, though our ministen £d not,
perhaps, act with sincerity at tluft time
towards the emperor, yet surdy the dan-
gers that threatened Europe by hisdesth,
uiould have made them act widi sincentj
towards thar sovereign. Whether they
did so or not we shall presendy see. The
emperor died, I think, on the dm of Octo*
her, without any satis&ction so modi u
promised to the kinff of Prussia, who there-
fore resolved to take hj force wfast had
hitherto been refused bun by fiur meaos,
which resolution he executed widi sudi
expedition, that on the 17th of December
he entered Silesia at the head of a cooa-
derablearmy; protesting however, at the
same time, that he was raady to enter mto
a strict alliance with the courts of Yieona,
Russia, and the maritime poveis, for
guarantying the Rragmatic Sanction, and
for procuring the imperial dijjputjr for the
duke of Lorrain, ij^n condition of hb re-
ceiving immediate satisfiiction ss to his
claims upon Silesia, which had noduog to
do with' the Pragmatic Sanction, nor cmU
be construed as a breach of that 8etti^
ment; and intimating that he waa wiljiBg
.to accept of a part of what he had a li^
to, and that he would assist m procunog
her an amends fi>r the loss she nugfat tos-
tain upon that occaaioo. In short. Sir, it
appeared fi*om every part of his conduct,
tnathewas extremdy willing to come to
any reasonable accommodatiob with the
House of Austria, and as unw3iingto j<Nn
with those who were meditating the ruin
of that House, and soliciting, and eva
tempting hhn with great oftrs, to join vitb
them in that project.
Upon this important emeigeocf, Sir,
what was the mterest of Engttnd? Hov
were our mmisters, or our court, to behave
in this dispute between the queen of Hu&«
gary and the kmg of Prussia? Said7>
solicit, to insist upon it, to make it the ab-
solute condition of our doing, or promisor
to do any thins, in iavour of thefonner,
that she should at any rate gt?e stl^Acr
tion to the latter, and bring him into a
strict alliance with us. It was not enough
to bring him into a neutrali^. Weatood
in need of his powerful assistsnce. We
could not do without it. If we hsd done
this, she would have complied, ahe mist
have complied; and she might then hare
purchaseci his.assistance for lesa than she
nas now purchased his neutrality ; in whidi
case, Bavaria might have proteated, bitt
he would not have dared \o attack^
France would have contiBiied to prw
§97]
HaMverian Ttoopiinio BriiUkPaif.
A. D. 174S.
[998
what ihe never had^ a slnoere n^gard for
her cDptgementa. Did our minifttera do
thiS) Sir? Does it not apnoar from the
papen upon our taUe, they did not? What
18 the reaaon ? Sir^ the reason is manifest.
The Boinisters of Hanover, for the causes
I have akeack assigned, were averse to any
eztenmn or the dominions of Prussia.
Nay, there is some reason to suspect, that
they, fix>Iishly imagining that France
would not intermedSfi in the affiurs of
Germany, began to form a scheme for
joining with the queen of Hungary, and
dividi^ the Prussian dominions between
them; fiir, beside the paper we have
heard of, iient hither from Vienna, we
know, that as soon as his Prussian majesty
attacked Silesia, and before the elector oiP
Bavaria marched a man into Austria, or
the French a man into Grermany, there
were orders given for adding 6,000 men
to the troops of Hanover. With this view
therefore it waa not the interest of Hano-
ver io insist upon the queen of Hungary^s
phrinff satiaiaclion to Prussia, and this, as
IB o£er -cases, became the rudder of Bri-
tish polilios.
Wnether our British ministers gave any
countenance to this scheme of attacking
Prussia, I do not affirm; <bttt there are some
circumstances which render it liighly suspi-
cious; for before the French marched aman
into Germany, there were orders given to
the foreisn troqis in British pay to march
towards Hanover, and some preparations
msde for embarking a large body of Bri-
tish troops, to be sent somewhere, and
anunst somebody: where or against
whom, I shall not pretend to say; hut I
am sure, it was not against our enemies
the Spaniards. And whatever was the
design of these preparations, they had a
most fttal effi^t: Uiey confirmed the
?ueen of Hungarv in her obstinacy towards
^russia, forced that prince into an alliance
with France and Bavaria, and thereby
produced the war now carrying on in Ger-
many; for till that time, neither the
French nor. Bavarians would venture to
attack, or to march a man against the
queen of Hungary.
The march of the French troops, and
theur ^trance into Germany, especially
those that marched into Westphalia, awak-
ed the Hanover ministers out ol their
golden dream : th^ thought no more of
attacking Prussia, or of comine in for a
snack ofhis dominions : they Uiought of
noOung but a neutrality; and this too
must have an effisct upon our counsels;
for at the same time th&t we were sending
monev to support the queen of Hungary,
we allowed the Spaniards to pass quietly
by our fleet to attack her. Like an aider
at a boxing match, we help to raise her
up, and then stand quietly by to see her
knocked down.
Soon after this, Sir, there happened
some little change in our counsellors,
though I am afraid, none at all in our
counsels; and contrary to all expectation,
the queen of Huneary supports nerself to
a miracle. The kin^ or Prussia too, by
the ill usage he met with from the French,
is drawn off from the alliance against her,
which brought the present emperor, and
the French army in Bohemia, into suck
distress, that they offer her very ^reasonable
terms of peaoe. Upon this unlocked, 'un-
hoped for event, what was England to do ?
As, in the present circumstances of Eu-
rope, wecannardly expect toprocure better
terms for her, it was certainly the interest
of England to advise her to accept of them.
But the Hanover ministers observing how
zealously the people of England had de-
clared ror the support of the queen of
Hungary, they had, before this happened,
formed a scheme, to make use of this our
zeal as a handle for touching a pretty
round sum of our money,, under the pre-
tence of lending us a body of their troops
for the support of our &vourite die queen
of Hungary. It was therefore contrary to
the interest of Hanover to advise the qoeen
of Hungary to accept of the terms oBered
her; and, I believe, it will appear, that
they had such an influence upon our. Bri-
tish ministers as to ^t them to encouran
her not to accept ol them. Accordin^y
she rejects them, and to encourage her to
do so« as well as to form a pretence for
taking those Hanoverian troops into our
pay, this nation was put to the expence of
transporting a larse oody of its troops to
Flanders, and of keeping in pay a much
more numerous army than we snould other*
wise have had occasion for.
Thus, Sir, I thmk it is evident, that our
takinff Uiose troops into our pay proceeded
firops Hanoverian counsels; and as we fol-
lowed the advice of Hanoverian mmisters^
in taking those troops into our pay, I be-
lieve, we shall follow the same advice in
the use we make of them, or even of our
own that are joined with them. How the
counsels of mnover may alter, I shall not
pretend to foretell ; but at present, itia
plain to.me, that they do not intend to
give any rod assiatance to the queen of
999]
16 GEORGE U.
Ddoie in Ae ticmmani m
Hungaiy; for if they did» thej would at
least send her the 4,000 men, which they
are enffsged to send her by their guaranty
of the P^gmatic Sanction. As they hare
not d(me this, I must suppose, they do not
intend to assist her; and as we neither
can nor ought to assist her, without their
concurrence, I am against putting the na-
tion to an expenoe, whidi can no way
redound to our own benefit, or to the ad-
vantage of our ally the queen ci Hungary,
however it may to Hanover*
Lor4 Strange:
Sr ; In aU affiurs of a political na-
ture, the vulgar without doors are very
vuch swayed in their opinion by diose
sounds they have been long accustomed to,
or those maxims they have long adopted*
Without considering the difierence of
times, or the difierence of circumstances,
they are governed by a favourite sound,
even after it becomes nothing but a sound ;
or by a maxim which when firBt adopted
was right, but by a diange of circum*
stances has become useless or perh^
pemitfioqs. This is at present the case as
to th# people without doors, and from the
course of the argument in this debate, it
aeems to be the esse widi too many even
in this House* Whilst the House of
Austria was possessed, and likely to re-
mam possessed of the imperial diadem, the
balance of power in Europe, and the
power of the House of Austria, were syno-
nymous terms, and for almost a century
past they have been rightly considered as
such, fiut from the moment the elector
of Bavaria was chosen emperor, those two
tenns became distinct, and the balance of
power in Europe had no more to do with
the power of tne House of Austria, than
it had with the power of any other sove-
reign House in Germany,
As Frante is still the most formidable
power in Europe, it is still the business of
ear poUticians to find out such a balance
for the power of France, as will at all times
be ready to oppose the ambitious views of
that nation; and Ishall readily grant, that
the House of Austria would be the most
proper power in Europe for us to fix o«r
eves, upon for this purpose, if it were pos«
amle for us to restore that House to the
possession of the imperial diadam, and of
•Uthose dominions which it has lest with-
ki thtt lest doaen of years. But is this
fjiwe, Sir ? from Ae present appearance
i*Wog» it is evident, that it boot. VWiat
m^ut we going to doi^ We are going
to put mmdves to a vaat expense, adi to
engage perhm in a war, in wUdi ndtlier
the interest of this naticm, nor themer'
vation of the bahmce ofpowerinlEBnpe,
has the least concern ; for as long si te
House 0^ Austria oannot be set if aia
balance tor the power of Fienoe, Snd ai
long as the hitter aoquirea no addifiai of
power, what signifies it to tUa natioO|
whether the Hooae of Auatriaor the Hone
of Bavaria becomes the most povafoi
House in Germany? The hitter fan il«
ready got possession ef tlie imperisl df*
nity, by the assistance of Ftaooe» sndths
late bad conduct of this nation; sqiposeit
dmuld by the same assistance get poi*
sesion or some of the dominions of tie
House of Austria, tee we to suppoK,
that the House of Bavaria will theidbre
consent to be the humble slave of Fnmoe^
or that it wiU co-operate with die Fieorii
king in establishing oisarbitnury power over
Germany, as W€^ as the teat of Buropef
No, Sir : if the House of Bavaria wett<Miee
established in llie peaceable posssmm d
the imperial dwm^, and cimoie fui d
the dominions of the House of Auslni, d»
princes or emperors of the House of Bsvs^
ria would be as ready to oppose ths aa-
bidous schemes of France as ever tin
Honse of Austria was; andtfiesDoaerdttt
House is established in the peacesble poi*
sesion of the imperial digqity, the greiler
part it acquires of the Aastriaa doouokwi
the more ready, and the moie able will it
be to oppose any of th€ futufeaarfiitiosi
schemes of France; so that asafiii«s(W
stand, I do not knew but that by support-
ing, or even assisting the Heuae of Aaitiii»
we ma^
of restoring it, unless we coofctjpro-
pose to divest the present emperor ot the
imperial dignity, to restore it to the HoM
of Austria, and to take from Fiaacc^ vA
|pve to that House, an equindeBt Ibrvbat
It has yidded to Prussia.
Can we propose to do this, Sk, without
any asristaaceeittwrfrom the Duleh,orfrom
any ofthe princes of Germany? Siudy,fio
such thought caA enter into the hcsd d
the boldest minister we have amoagsl m\
and therefore the first question staled by a
noble lord in this debate, is not quitew
dearasheimagineB itis. BetthesoWo
lord, in this question, as weM astht nest,
confomidshimseif by connecting tir Hotf>
of Austria with ttie balance ^p^i
whereas there ii really now nemersee^
nectkm between ti^ House of Audrittf'
the bahmcB of fmm^ thaft thm» ke-
001] HwMfMTum Troopi inio BrUuh Fay.
A* D. n4<.
rtoot
ivientbe HaoM of B«?«ria andthe ba»
noe of poirer. Nin^ if the latter were
ooe Mh} ettabliaheO) and likdj to oon-
one in the pceeeable po«esi2on of tbe
DperU diadem, tliere would then be a
reater oannectioii between the balance of
ower and the power of the Houae of Bam^.
ia, than between the balance of power
iddbe power of the Heuae of AuBtria^
r anj other Boveraan Houie in Germany^
lieether princes or Oeraiany maj aoase-
QMsbe indooed from particnlar views of
leiroimi to §Kfom the ambitions views of
Inmce ; but whatever prince is at the head
Fdieempire»he will always look iqum
iondf as the rival of France, and will
HHsqasntly be reader to join in defeat-
ig any ambitious design that may here*
Icr be fimned by that powerful nation.
Erom what I have said. Sir, I hope it will
It be thought, that I was at first against
ristmg the queen of Hungary, or that I
MNild now be against assisting her Mif
rikr, if the Dutch, and some of the
mt powerful princes of Germany wonld
sslvetodothesame. Insuchacase we
light pfopose to re-establidi the bahmce
f power upon its ancient foundation, by
sioring t&e imperial dignity to the House
^Austria, and by giving to that House an
piwdent for the dominions it has latelv
*ak obliged to pait with. Tliis, I shall
!iot,woS(dbe extremely desirable, and
erefore, I wish we could pievail with the
ntch and some of theprinces of Germany
Join widi us in this scheme. 1 have so
Md an opinion of our ministers, that I
D persnaded, tbey have attempted it;
It me very demand now under our con-
lemtion is a convincing ))roof, that ther
tf e not succeeded, and will, I am afhudf,
\ an obstruction to their future success.
Iiis demand must shew to us, Sir, and
iMt is much worse, to all Europe, duit
»have not so much as prevailed with the
ectorate of Hanover to join with us in
is schone ; for if that electorate had
^feed to assist the queen of Hungary,
i9 viribusy it could not have desired of
to take the greatest part of its army into
Er pay; rad when the electorate of
snover thus openly refuses to join with
in sttcli a scheme, can we suppose, that
y other power in Europe will ? I must
erefore conclude, that as aiairs stand at
is present conjuncture, it is imposrible
r us to give the queen of Hungary such
assistaaoe as win be effeotual forre-es-
Miriiinfftiie balance of power upon its
mer bans, and for tins reason I am
against our givk^ he^ any fivtfcer t
anoe that what we arsoUiged to by trsacy i
this assbtance I amindera forgivkig, not
because I think it will any my contribute
towards the preservation or re-establish*
ment of the balance of power, but merely
because we are obliged by treaty to rive
it; forlshallalwa^Deforamostreligioutf
observance of treaties, however contrary it
may be to the practice of the preeeai
There is another assistance which, I
think. Sir, we ought to give, nor be*
cause it will be an assistance to her, but
because it w91 bring distress upon on^
own declared enemies die Spaniards.
You will readily suppose. Sir, I mean an
assistance against the Spaniards in Italy.
I am really surprised how we came to per-
mit them to send an v troops to ItiJy : I
think it is an affidr which demands a rar-
liamentary enquiry as much as any ifflhir
that ever happened to us : but whatever
we may do m this respect, I hope, care
will be taken not to permit any audi thing
for the future. We may by our squadron
prevent their sending any more troops
thither by sea; and I hope that, by means
of the aUiance we have with the king of
Sardinia, we shall be able to prevent
their sending any thither by land. As the
queen of Spain is, we know, very intent
upon havinff her son Don Fhflip settled hi
Italy, and her native country freed froth
the dominion of the Germans, this may
periiaps be a better, and a shorter method
of olHaining satisfaction from the Spa^
niards, than any attack we can make upcft
them either in feurope or America ; there^
fore we are not only in honour but in in-
terest bound to prevent their making any
conquests in Italy as lon^ as they are at
war with us ; and for Uiis reason I must
think, that our allowing dieir fleet and
land forces to pass undisturbed to Italy,
was one of the greatest indignities, as weR
as one of Hhe greatest prejudices, this na-
tion ever snfiiered.
Having thus. Sir, explained what sort
of assistance we ought to give to the
queen of Hungary, and for what reason ;
1 may, I think, conclude, that we ouabt
not to assist her tcHs^'oirihiSy unless we
Dutch and some of the most potent princea
in Germany win agree to do the same,
and consequently, the second ^estion
stated by the noble lord can admit of no
absolute, but a conditional answer. If the
other powers, who are.equally concerned
with us, will join with us, his lordsb^'s
iOW]
16. GEORGE II.
Debate in th€ Ctmmons ontaUmg
[im
oueslioii oq^t to be aosirered in the af«
mmatrre : if diey will not, it ought cer-
tainly to be answered in the ne^[ative ;
9nd unfortunatdy. for big lordship, his
third question must, in either of these cases,
have a negative put upon it; for if none
of the other powers of Europe will join with
IIS in assisting the queen or Hungary, and
consequently we are to give her no assis*
lance, but what we are obliged to by
treaty, we have no occasion for taking
cither Hanoverians or any other troops
into our pay, because it will be more con-
venient tor us, and better, I believe, for
lier, to advance our quota in money ; and
if she should insist upon our quota in
troops, we can spare enough, and more
than enouffh of our own troops, and may,
I hope, have liberty to march diem
through Hanover for that service.
On the other hand. Sir, if anjr of the
powers of Europe are to join with us in
assisting the queen, of Hungary, Mis
njiribus, the dectorate of Hanover will
certainly be the first ; for as his majesty
is absolute in his electorate,.if the baJance
of power were really in danger, he would
certainly order his electorate to join with
us tatis virilntSf in which case we could
have no occasion for takmg 16,000 Hano-
verians iQto our pay, because the electorate
could, and certainly would send us 16,000
of those troops it maintains in time of
peace, at its own expence. If, indeed,
upon this occasion, the electorate were to
■end, at its own expence, all the troops it
has now on foot to the assistance of the
queen of Hungary, and to raise 16,000
more for the same purpcwe, there mi^ht be
aqme reason for our taking that addiUonaJ
16,000 into our pay ; but even in this case
it would be more prudent to take 16,000
cf the troops of any other potentate in
Europe into our pay, than to desire the
electorate of Hanover to raise 16,000 fresh
troops for our service. This, I say. Sir,
.would be more prudent for several very
substantial reasons: our hiring 16,000
troops from any other prince in Europe,
snieht be an inducement for him to join
with us in assistinf^tlie queen of Hun|rary,
Of, at least, it might prevent his joining
with France against us ; whereas, without
any such consideration, I hope, we are
sure, that the electorate of Hanover will
never do so : and lastly. Sir, it must be
allowed that ISjMO veteran troops of any
0ther potentate in Europe, would be more
lit for immediate service than 16,000
troops newly raised in Hanover.
• Therefore, Sir, if we were to sm the
queen of Hunganr, toHs vtrifiiir, sad were
to take 16)000 tor&ga troops iato our
pay, the troops of Hanover are, in my
opmioo, the last we diould thiak oC; but
as the noble lord was pfeased, i^on this
his third question, to atate tluee or four
previous questions, I shall beg leave to
give every one of them a proper soswer,
beginning widi the aecona and die last
connected together, because tfaeysreia
efect the veiy same: whether the troops
of Hanover are as good, andasmucfato
be depended on, as ue troops of say other
potentate whatsoever ? As to this question,
I shall grant. Sir, that the veteran troops
of Hanover may be as good, and sieas
much to be depended on as the troops of
any other potentate whatsoever ; but if
Hanover is to join iatis viriius b sisistiDg
the queen of Hungary, all its veteno
troops must be emmo^ed at its own ex-
pence ; conseouently if we take 16|000
mto our pay, msh troops must be raised
for that purpose, and, 1 hope, I may saj,
without any derogation, that 16,000 Hi-
noverians newly raised, are not so good as
16,000 of the veteran troops of aay other
potentate in Europe; for m the last w,
even the veteran troops of Hanover were
&r from being reckoned the best of sdj
we had in our service.
The next of his lordship's pretiofis
Questions was. Whether the troops of
lanover are not as weQ situated as so;
other : and this, if we are to give sojresi
assbtance to the queen of Hungary, I si>-
sdutely deny; for either PrussiSD, or
Saxon, or Swiss troops, are better siuiated
for marching to the assistance of tfaequeeo
of Hungary, than those of Hanover. Tbe
Prussians and Saxons are upon the con-
fines of Bohemia, and might have joined
the queen of Hungarjr's army in two or
three days ; and as to the Swiss, I was
surprised to hear his lordship talk of
marching them down the Rhine to tbe as-
sistance of the queen of Hungary, vben
every one knows, that they lie upon tbe
borders of her province of Trent, a»i
might easily march to join her snnf i
either in Italy or Germany, without
coming near any of the strong places of
France ; so that to march them down tbe
Rhine, would really be to march diem
away from, instead of inarching them to
her assistance. But our army in Flsndecs
was, it seems, to be the loaostooe which
was to draw whatever troops we hired to
that corner, where neither coold be of
005]
Hanoverian Troops into British Pa^.
A. D. lt4S.
[1006
ay use to the queen of Hungary, without
previous concert with the Dutch to at-
ack France upon that quarter. And as
he Dutdi were so far from being in a
oncert with ua for this purpose^ Uiat they
positively declared against it, and even
hreatened to declare war against us if we
^egan the attack there, I cannot yet com-
»r3iend, what was our real motive for
ending our troops to Flanders; for if we
rere resolved to assist the queen of Hun-
gary, surely the best and most ready way
rould have been to have sent them to Ha-
lover, in order to join with the troops of
iiat electorate, and drive M. Maillebois
Mit of Germany, or at least prevent his
uarching to the relief of Prague, In this
[!ase indCsed, the Hanover troops would
bare been the best situated of any in Eu-
rope for our purpose ; but then they, ought
to have marched at the expence of the
electorate, and not at the expence of this
nation ; for the electorate of Hanover is
as much obliged, both in honour and in-
terest, to assist the queen of Hungary,
totU viriius, as this nauon can be supposed
to be.
Upon this subject his lordship endea-
rouied to diew, either that we could get
no other troops to hire, beside the Hano-
verian, or that no other troops were so
proper for us. The Dutch we ought not
to take into our pi^, he says, because
ve cannot suppose the Dutch will pay
their own troops in aid of the common
cause, when they find this nation ready to
do it for them. Sir, does not every one
see, that this objection lies equally strong
against our takmg Hanoverians into our
pay^ and I will say in general, that for
ualf a century past we have given ourselves
too much concern about preserving the
^>ftIsQce of power, and have shewn our-
selves too ready to take troops into our
psy for that purpose ; for the powers upon
the continent would be more careful of
themselves, and more ready to pay their
pwn troops in aid of the common cause,
if they did not expect us to be such gene-
rous fools as to do it for them. By this
means we have already alnuMt ruined our-
selves, and now we must, it seems, com-
plete that ruin, by undertaking alone the
support of what some genUemen are
pleased to caU the balance of power,
though it is evident, that it is not so, and
still more evident that, if it were, it would
^ot be m our power to support it by our-
■«*ve8 alone.
^ for the Danes, Prussians, and
Saxons, his lordship thinks, we can have
none of them, even for our money, be*
cause they are either jealous of one ano^
ther. Or warped towards the interest of
France. I ao not know. Sir, but it may
be so; and if it is, I am sure, we ought
not to take amr foreign troops into our
pay, because ii no power in Europe will
assist us, we cannot propose to re-establish
the balance of power upon its former
foundation. But if the case be as his lord-
ship represents, we have ourselves only to
blame tor it ; for if we had persuaded th«
court of Vienna to have accepted of th«
terms at first offered bv the kin^ of Prussia,
and had thereby got nim to jom with us in
supportmg the queen of Hungary, and la
getting her consort, the grand duke, raised
to the imperial throne, I am persuaded^
neither die Bavarians nor French would
have attacked her, nor would the Swedes
have attacked the Muscovites ; but we en*
couraged the queen of Hungacy in hot ob*
stinacy towards Prussia, and by the treat-
ment the latter met with, at the court of
.Vienna, 'and especially in this House, we
at last, sore ^amst his will, drove him into
the arms of Irance, which encouraged the
French to send their troops into Germany;
and then, in order to prevent any Muscoe
vite troops being sent to the assistance of
the queen of Hunffary, they prevailed
with Sweden to demre war against Mus*
covy, the fate of which has given them a
handle to get the king of Demnark warped
over to their interest. Thus it may justly
be said, that all the present collisions in
Europe are owing to the treatment the
king of Prussia met with upon.his invading
Silesia ; and as he may still have a great
hand in bringing those confusions to a
happy or very unhappy issue for this na-
tion, I was glad to near the i^oble.lord
maintam a proper respect in discoursing (^
so great a character : I wish the same re-
spect had been maintained, when the con-
duct of that prince came first under con-
sideration of tnis House ; for I know, of no
variety in his conduct, except what he has
been provoked to by the conduct of those
he has had to deal with ; and his invasion
of Silesia we had no right to find fault
with, nor any authority to condemn.
I come now to his lordship's first pre*
vious question, which was. Whether toese
Hanoverian troops are as cheap to us as
any other forces we can hire? This, his
lordship says, the estimates now upon our
table do sufficiently demonstrate. I wish
bis lordship had exasHoed thojaitiiotte of
1007J
16 6E0B6E U.
Dctotf in fAe Cbwmgur m laiu^
[1006
Ae Hnover troops taken into oar pi^ m
tlio year 170S^ before lie bed detemmied
IIm qiiestion in such a magisterial nianiier.
If he had canq>ared that estimate with the
osdmate noar upon our table» he would
have seen it sumdentlj demonstrated by
figures, that these Hanover troops now
men into our pay will cost us a mudi
larger sum^ in proportion to their number,
than the Hanover troops did in the j^ear
I7O89 or than any foreijgn troops taken into
the im of Great Britain erer did. It
WDidd be too tedious to run over all the
articles of the present estimate, but I must
beg leave to mention the most extraordi-
nary. In 1708 the Hanover troops then
atiptdated, b^^an to be in our pay only the
1st of June, and before the 21st of that
mondi, when the Convention for them was
signed, some of them were arrived at the
appointed plaoe of action, as is declared
in the Convention itself; and th^ were to
continae no longer in our pav, than till
die 1st of January fallowing. From hence
we may see, that they were in actual ser-
vice, as well as actual pary, for the chief
part of one whole campaign, and that we
were to pve ^them but seven months par
for this mole campaign, which was much
more glorious for this nation, and contri-
buted more to the relief of Europe, than
the nest campaign is likely to do; and
and yet by the esrimate for die Hanove-
rians now on our table, we are to give
them no less than 16 months pay for the
ensuing loamoaign ; for it is evident that
during die last casnpaiga thejr neither
were, nor could be or any service to this
nation, to Europe, or to the queen of
Anotner article of the present estimate
is not only of an excessive but a new kind :
m 1702, we paid no levy money for the
Hanover troojps then taken into our pay ;
but by die present estimate we are to pay
no less a sum than 139,8182. sterling for
levy money, though the troops were all
raised long before we desired to take them
into our pay, and though no new troops
ere to be raised in Hanover, instead of
those now taken into our ]^y. A second
article of the same kind is the recruitrnff
money, amounting to near 20,000/. whi<£
is an article never before heard of in the
hiring of anv troops, and an article of ex-
penee which was never allowed even to
our own army, because this service is al-
ways provided for out of the savings that
n««ssarity happen every year by mens
dying, Jeseidng, or beii^lolled. Adiird
article of the same kind ai die pay of tiie
off oers and men belonging to tlie Hano-
verian train, amountbg to near 1S,OOOIL
which is not only Aew, but is an article of
expenoe we saight have saved to die na-
tion by sending a sufficient train of our
own to Flanders; for surely, a train miglit
have been sent to Flanders, at a leas ex-
penoe from England than from Hanorer;
and cooBidering the vast sums raised yearly
upon this nation for the service of our
ordnance, it cannot be simposed, that we
had not in our stores sumcient to spare
for this service. And the fourth article of
a new as well as excessive nature, is die
great number of Hanoverian genend offi-
cers now pinned upon us. In tlie year
1703, with the 10,000 men then taken
into our service, we had but one lieute-
nant general and one major seneral;
whereas with the LSflOO now taken into
our service, we havOf and are to pay, one
general, two lieutenant generala, and three
major generals, besides a most extnordi-
nary number of brigadier generals, aid de
camps, majofs of brigade, and other sortt
of superior officers.
BdTore I leave thii subject. Sir, I must
take notice of one other artide, which
really seems to me a downright inapoaitioii
upon thb nation. In 1702,a certain fixed
number of guilders was to be paid at stated
times at Rotterdam, for the Hanover
forces then taken into our pay,ao that the
nation could lose nothing by the exthaogt ;
but by the present contract or rather the
present estimate, for I do not knour how
any contract could be made between the
king of Great Britain and the elector of
Hanover, die levy money, recriiitmg
money, and pay of those troms, ia to be
in pounds sterling, at ten guikiera ten sti-
vers for a pound, when every one hnow»
the present excliange is ten guilders
eighteen stivers, so tmit this nation loses
eiebt stivers upon every pound sterlings
which upon 657,888^ the whole aum we
are to pay for the Hanover txoopa,
amounts to about 26,000^ sterling loos to
this nati(Hi, and gain to the dectoime or
elector of Hanover.
After these observations upon the pre-
sent estimate, and the convention in 170S
for die same troops, I hope, no man will
say, that these Hanover troc^ arenow m
ch«E^ as those were which we took into
our pay m 1702; and upon comparing this
estimate with all die treaties we ever made
for auxiliary troops, it will appear, thM
these Hanover tioofis we now tate into
Hanwerw Trocpt inio British JPay.
A. D. 1743*
[1010
car pay tre the devest of any we ever
did, or, \ hope, will ever again take into
our pay. As these ohservationSy Sir, are
all founded upon fiffures, and upon very
easy and obvious calculations, I shall not
aaj, it is an affected ignorance, but I must
say it is an inexcusable n^lect, that can
ioduce any gentleman to affirm, Uiat these
Hanover troops are as cheap as any other
forces we can hire. The contrary is so
evident, that I could not imagine any of the
advocates for this measure would be hardy
enough to state the question in such plain
terms ; and supposing the measure could
in every other respect be supported, this
alone would be a sufficient argument for
my being against it Our paying such an
extravagant price for these Hanover troops
will introduce a precedent of a most pemi-
cioos nature to this kingdom; because
every foce^ prince we may hereafter have
0ccasi<m to treat with for auxiliary troops,
will expect the same terms we now allow
to the elector of Hanover^ and will refuse
bis troops if we refuse agreeing to his
tenns. The elector of Hanover may ask
^hat hefkleasesfor histroopsy andhis Bri-
tish ministers may have complaisance
Boough to agree to all his demands : they
inay even do so with an expectation, that
men extravag^t demands will not be re-
fused by a British parliament ; but if they
ure there agreed to, they can be refused
)j no other power or authority; and
herefore, it would be both a most criminal
md a most inexcusable complaisance in us
0 wree to such extravagant demands.
Having thus. Sir, answered all his lord-
hip's previous questions, and having an-
irered them in a manner, I believe, which
e little expected, the reply which from
tience naturally flows to nis third princi-
al question, is, that suppose we are to
isiat the queen of Hungary, and suppose
e are to assist her with our whole torce,
le Hanover troops ought not to be made a
art of that force^ nor ought the electorate
r Hanover to desire any such thing of us,
H:ause it is equally with us obliged, both
honour and mterest, to assist uie queen
* Hungary, and ccmsequently ought,
its own expence, to assist her with all
e troops it has b actual pay. We ought
^refbre to hftve looked out for the troops
' some other potentate; and if we could
id BO auch troops to hire, it was, and is
ill an unanswerable argument against
ir giving her any other assistance thwi
Mit we stand engaged to by treaty; and
is assistance we might have given her in
[ VOL. XH. ]
money, whidi would have been more con^
venient for us, and better for her, than
any proportionable number of troops we
could have sent to her assistance.
But as the noble lo^pd was pleased to
state us another question upon this head,
and thereupon endeavourea to shew that
we ought to assist her with troops rather
than money, I shall be^ leave to consider
the arguments he made use of for this
purpose. His lordship was pleased to say,
upon the authority or an hon. gentleman,
that if we gave the queen of Hungary any
large sum of money, a great part of it
would be squanderea among the Austrian
ministers and &vourites. Whatever re*
gard his lordshb may pay to the autho-
rity he quoted, I can lay no great stress
upon it; because from Uie consequences
or that hon. gentleman's negociations we
have no reason to suppose, Uiat his know-
ledge of forei^ a&irs is very exactor ex-
tensive ; and if he knows any thing of pub-
lic money's being squandered among mi-
nisters, I am persuaded, he got his know-
ledge of these matters at home and not
abroad. I shall ^^rant, that such a misap-
plication of pubhc money is but too fre-
quent at most courts, and we in this coun-
try have from experience great reason to
be jealous of it ; but the present court of
Vienna is as little to be suspected of such
a misapplication as any court ever was ;
for the queen of Hungary could not have
made such a glorious stand as she has al-
ready done, against so many and sudi
powerful enemies, if any of her money had
oeen squandered among ministers and &-
vourites; and for this reason, if we are to
raise a million and a half for her support,
I should chuse to put it under her own
management, in order to enable her to
supp<Hrt herself rather than to put it
under the management of our own mi-
nisters, in order to enable them to
support her with troops. This, I say, I
should chuse, and I am directed to this
choice by the very measure now under
our consideration ; for if she had been to
contract for 16,000 veteran troops, I am
sure she might, and would have got them
for much less tlian we are to pay for these
16,000 Hanoverians.
Another objection his lordship made to
our assisting the queen of Hungary with
any large sum of money was, that it would
be a sort of vote of credit, and might be
converted by our ministers here to very
bad purposes. Sir, we might easily pre-
vent this by our method of granting it;
[3T]
1011] 16 6£0RGB IL Debate in the Cmmmt on UUng
[low
for if we bordered it to be paid directly to
her minister here, or to sucn persons as she
should appoint, 1 am persuaded, erery
shilling of it would be faithfully and spee-
dily remitted to her. Some of the uttle
petty princes of Germany may perhaps
submit to give a receipt for 30,00(8. when
they receive but 20,00(M.but the ^ueen of
Hungary has shewn too much spint to be
suspected of any such mean submission.
If a million and a half were granted to her
by the British parliament, I am convinced
she would insist upon every shilling of it
bein^ paid: She would scorn to let any
British minister go shares with her in the
grant, or to give a receipt for more than
she acttmlly received.
But, Sir, when the noble lord seems to
be so suspicious of our ministers, and of
their purloining 500,000/. out of a million
and ahalf, in case we should grant such a
sum to the queen of Hungary, I wonder
he does not see, that what we are now to
grant is worse than a vote of credit, be-
cause it is an absolute gift to the crown of
at least 600,000^ For as no new troops
are to be raised in Hanover, and as these
16,000 men must have been paid and main-
tained by his majesty, though we had not
taken them into our pay, I am persuaded
the difference between the expence of
maintaining them at home, and the ex-
pence of marching them to, and main-
taining them in Flanders, or any part
of Germany, will not amount to the odd
57fOOO^. and consequently, whatever we
pay for those troops above that expence,
ought to be lookea on as a free gift to his
majesty, which his ministers may apply,
if he pleases, towards replenishing the
coffers of an exhausted civil list : and I
wish no part of it may be applied to any
worse purpose : for though his majesty is
not to be so much as suspected of consent-
ing to any wrong application of public
money, yet experience has shewn that the
civil list money, or any public money,
which is not to be strictly accounted for to
parliament, may by ministers be applied
to very vile purposes without the Know-
ledge of their master*
I now come. Sir, to the particular view,
which the noble lord says, we have in
ipporting the queen of Hungary, and
hich, he says, cannot be answered by
ur supporting her with money only.
This view, his lordship tells us, is to pre-
vent the French from making any further
acquisitions in Flanders. How his lord-
ship's imagination came to suggest any
SU]
our
such view to him, I cannot tdl, but I
am convinced, no one of our mimsten
ever had such a view : they know, that the
neutrality of the DoUih depends upon
France's' attempting no sndi thing, and
therefore, there never was die feait occa-
sion for our sending any of our own troops
to Flanders, and much less for oar sending
any auxiliaries there, unless the Dutch
had desired it, in cmier to endde them to
break the neutrality they have hitherto so
religiously observed : and if they had done
this, we should have had no occasion to
send any of our auxiliary troops to Flan-
ders ; for with the assistance of the Dutch,
and by sending 10 or 12,000 more of oar
own troops thither, which we might easily
have spared, we could have formed voA
an army in Flanders, as would have been
sufficient to oppose any of the deagns of
France in that part of the world, espedallj
if by sending our auxiliaries to the assot-
ance of the oueen of Hungary in Ger-
many, we haa enabled her to drive Uie
FVendi out of that country, becauae ^
might then, and certainly vroold have
come down upon the Rhine, with sudi an
army as would have prevented the French
from being able to push any conquests in
Flanders. For as France lies mudi more
open upon the side of Germany tlnn upon
that or Flanders, their own prudence
would have directed, and even neoessity
would have drove them to have stood upon
the defensive in Flanders, in order to have
sent their most powerful armies towards
the Rhine, because, in Flanders, they maj
defend themselves by their stroog gar-
risons, but towards Germany they must
defend themselves by their
armies.
Thus, Sir, in every light this i
can be considered, ft most appear to be
wrong. As the balance of power, in the
present situation of the aflairs of Europe,
no more depends upon the power of the
House of Austria, than apon the power of
any other House in Grerraany, it wss
wrong in us to think of giving the House
of Austria any farther assistance than ve
were oblieed to by treatv, unleas the other
powers of Europe, equaUy concerned, hsd
jmned with us in restoring that House to
the imperial diadem, as well as in pro-
curing it an eouivalent from France for the
domuiions it nas been lateljr disDOBBessed
of. If it had been right to give Uie queen
of Huneary a greater asaistanoe dian we
were obliged to by treaty, and to take fo-
reign troops into our pay for that ptnposi^
1013]
Hanaverian Troops inio British Pay*
A. D. 1748.
[1014
it was wrong to take Hanoverians. If it
had been ri^t to take Hanoverians, it was
wroag to taSe them at such an extravagant
price: and if it [had been right to take
them at any price, it was wrong to march
tham into Handers, because they must
march back again to Germany, before
they can be of any use to the queen of
Hungaiy.
But really, in my opinion, Sir, and ac-
cording to the present appearance of
things, I cannot believe^ that either the
Hanoveriana or Hessians, or even our own
troops, will march into Germany, or give
the queen of Hungry any real assistance.
Let us consider, Sir, that both the Hano-
verians and Hessians are the emperor's
subjects, and, consequently, their fighting
even as auxiliaries against him may ex-
pose their masters to the ban of the em-
pire. Nay, the ban, I believe, would be
the certam consequence, if we should hap-
pen to be imsuccessful in the war ; there-
fore, though the dector of Hanover and
the prince of Hesse may allow their troops
to take our money, I do not believe, they
will allow their troops to engage against
the emperor. This, Sir, is the case of the
Hanoverian and Hessian troops, and as to
our own troops, I do npt thinx it possible
for them to march to the &rther end of
Germany. How shall we subsist them
upon their march thither ? How shall we
subsist them after they are there? How
shall we recruit them \ How shall we pre-
serve the remains of our army, in case it
should happen to meet with a defeat?
These, Sir, are questions very material,
and I protest, I do not see how any one of
them can be answered. What change
may be produced in the present face of
affiurs by the good conduct of the court of
Vienna, and the bad conduct of the court
of Versailles, I do not know, nor is it pos-
sible for human wisdom to foresee; for
the conduct of the one may be so good,
and that of the other so bad, as may give
courage, and even a probable view of suc-
cess, to some of the princes of Germany,
to act against the emperor they have
chosen : and I am sure, the electorate of
Hanover in particular has great reason to
resent the scurrilous treatment it has lately
met with from, the French, with regard to
the neutrality it was forcfsd into, and espe-
cially the insulting manner in which the
French ministers openly talked at all the
courts of Europe of that neutrality's being
solicited, and even begged, of the French
court by that eleptorate.
One cannot therefore determine what
may hereafter happen, but in deciding the
question now before us, we must c6nsider
the present posture of affiurs only, and
from thence we must conclude, that the
Hanoverian troops neither can, nor will
act against the emperor. 1 am sure, no
nian, who has any regard for the safety of
his majesty's electoral dominions, will at
present advise him to expose himself to
the ban of the empire, by allowing his
electoral troops to act offensively against
the emperor ; and if such a change should
hereafter happen in the affidrs of Europe,
as to render such a step advisable, it will
then be time enough for us to take those
Hanoverian troops into our pay. We shall
thereby save the expence of maintaining
them for seven or eight months, when
they neither will nor can be of anv service
either to us or the queen of Hungary ;
and considering the present distressed
condition of this nation, the heavy war
we are already engaged in, and the more
heavy war we are like to be engaged
in, this is a saving which, I am sure, a
true British House of Commons will not
neglect.
VLx.PhiUfSs
Sir ; the question now before you is
of the utmost importance to this nation : it
is no less than whether you shall take
16,000 Hanoverians into British pay, at a
time when you are at peace with dl the
world except Spain, against whom it is im-
possible these troops can be employed ; at
a time when you have a large fleet, suffi-
cient not only to defend your coasts, hut
invade and annoy others ; at a time when
the nation groans under the load of heavy
taxes and a large debt, and at a time when
all the powers of Europe are so. employed,
that it IS impossible for any of them to nurt
England : to what end then are these troops
to be taken into our pay ? Is it to assist the
queen of Hungary against the emperor ?.
No. By the treaty of Munster, by the
laws of the empire, the troops of none of
the imperial states can act against the. em-
peror ; mudi less can the troops of Ha-
nover against an emperor that Hanover it-
self has acknowledged, and joineJ in the
election of. It was said by an hon. gentle-
man, that these troops can, and will act in
conjunction with the Brituh troops, where-
ever it shall be advised ; but 1 believe, it
win never be thought advisable, that they
should act against the emperor, because
the consequence must be, that Hanover wiH
1015]
16 GEORGE IL
Dei9i$ in the Ommons on taking
[me
be put to tbe ban of the empire. A dis-
tinction was made by an hon. gentleman
between acting against the emperor, and
actinjB^ against the empire, but it was a dis-
tmction without a dinerenoe ; because, as
the emperor was dected and acknowledged
by a majoritr of the electors and the oUier
princes of tne empire, and had an actual
subsidy^ granted him of 50 Roman months,
the acting against him cannot but be con-
sidered as actinff against the empire. All
states must, in toe nature of things, ^ield
to a majority, and a majority (which I
have often been sorry to see; concludes
this House.
There is no power then, but France, that
these troops can besupposed to act against ;
and shall England, unallied and unsup-
ported, become principals in a war loainst
France? Oh, but it is said, the Dut<£ may
still come in : has not that experiment been
tried, and have they not declared, they
will not? And why will they not? Sir,
there must be a uniformity of opinions and
counseb, to enga|;e nations to act toge-
ther. You lost toe confidence of your
old allies the Dutch, when you threw
yourselves into the arms of France; and
what steps have you taken since to regain
that confidence? Were they so much as
consulted on any one measure that you
have taken ? Was not the new emperor ac-
knowledged without their advice? Was
there not a treaty of neutrality made wiUi
France for Hanover without their advice ?
And now we want the Dutch to act against
France, and to guaranty Hanover.
Sir, it is Hanover, and Hanover onl;^,
that seems now to be our care : that is
to be guarantied by all our treaties ; and
DOor England must maintain the troops of
Hanover, all her troops, even the 4,000
men that she herself stimulated to provide
for the support of the Pragmatic Sanction ;
and these troops we are to maintain at
treble the expence they cost the dector of
Hanover. Is not this contrary to the Act
of Settlement ? Is not this unhinging the
venr frame of our constitution ?
Sir, I am as much for preserving the ba-
lance of power in Europe, and for assisting
the mieen of Huncary, as any one man in
this House; but I ^ro for doinji^ it in a
practicable way, which is by giving her
money. Last year, when it was agreed to
send over the troops to Flanders, (which,
by the way, was no otherwise agreed to,
Wn by voUng the staff and hospital for
that service) every man in this House was
laade to believe, the Dutch would come in;
1
and it was caUedamad andunaocoaftbie
scheme, to pretend to act onthecooliDeat
without them ; but what fbBowed? Tbere
were seven embarkations, die first hMsy,
the last in September; still the Dutch Iw
2uiet, the Hanoverians did not aimed
October; but did this miglity amy pit-
vent the French from maiddng to theai*
sistance of the eoiperor ? NOi Did not
Harcourt, did not Haillebois mardi while
we remained, and still lemam inactire in
Flanders?
The charge of troops there in oorpijr
comes to above l,S54>,OOOL and would not
half that sum remitted in mon^todie
queen of Hungary, enable her to nglit aD
her own battles ? It was sud by sn boo.
g^tleman, the monen^ cannot m sent her
time enough; but naie we no credit
abroad? I am sure, die mon^ can resch
her much sooner dian the troops cm nsKh
to her assistance. I cannot hdp tslmg
notice of the huge sum th^ Hanover troop
amount to, no bss than 657»888t out of
which 14JBS6L per annum, is cfasifed for
recruitine money, though you paynoneto
the Hessians. But the moat extraordinaij,
and, indeed, surprising article is the lerj-
money, wfaidi comes to near 140^000^ and
is at the rate of ISL for every horwrnan,
and 6^ I5s. for eveiy fiM»tman that was
raised ; and this to be paid fivr fbroei Ast
were not raised for our aervice, but had
been long on foot. It was said, indeed,
you are to pay no subsidy for these troopi,
which you are obliged to do for all other
foreign troops : I wish I could look on
these troops as really foreign ones ; bat 1
beg leave to take notice, that diia fevj*
money amounts to near four times as much
as the subsidy we pay for the Hessians;
and I am credibly informed, that diese
troops, which are charged to us at S9ij33tlL
per annum, were maintained by the kin^
at Hanover, for 100,000^ per annuoL ^
Gentiemen blame others for bemg jtt*
lous : Sir, jealousy in a member of parlia-
ment is as great a virtue, as over-crednlitf
is a vice ; but it is said, weahoold give res*
sons for our jealousy : what stronger res*
son. Sir, can be given for it, than whenire
see so dangerous an exertion of the pr»
rogative, as the taking of 16,000 Hano-
verians into British pay, without the ad-
vice or consent of parliament ? But it was
said by an hon. gentleman, that diis is no
exertion of the prerogative at all, because
the troops are not to be paid t31 die pa>
liament votes them; but will that boo. go^-
tlemaa si^, that tbe parliament has had its
1017]
tfanoverian Troopi udo BrkiA Pcjf.
A. D. 174t.
[1018
freeqition m this case I Was not the mea-
sure taken without Ae parliament's ad«
vice, and the troops oraered to march?
And, I beliere in my conscienoe» diat
manj gentlemen in this House (who in
their hoorts condemn the measure) wDl
vote for the troops, because thej are ac-
tuallj taken into our pay ; and because we
hare bmio, they thmk, we ought to go on.
Sir, f hare a ri^t to be jealous, that
many of these troops we are to nay for,
are not in esse; and 1 am justified in that
jealousy by what I know of our own troops,
many of wmch, especially the marines, are
vetyiarfrombeingcomplete, thoughwe pay
for the whole; and maay regiments haTe
been months, I believe I may say, years,
withoutheads, without colonelstocommand
them, bv which great savings have been
made, wnich ought to be accounted for;
and if we are so liable to be deceived at
home, much more may we be so abroad.
Sir, upon the whole, the taking 16,000
Hanoverians into British pay, without
the advice or consent of parliament, is
enough to awaken and alarm every honest
Briton ; and a minister that was bold
enough to advise it, may likewise advise
the sending fer them over hither; but
let diem be vdiere they will, they must
suck the blood and vitab of this kingdom,
and as they drain us, they must necessa-
rily tend to enslave us, and to deprive us
of that power of resistance, whicn evei^
Englishman is entitled to, whenever his
propeity shaD happen to be invaded. The
late minister was too wise a man, and too
fidthiul a subject to advise the Idng to
employ Hanoverians, to render him omous
to his Britbh subjects. An hon. gen-
tleman was pleased to say, he wodd be
for no measure that should give dissatis-
iaction to the king. Sir, I bdieve, it was
imposnble for any measure to be invent-
ed, that could be more disagreeable to
the people of Endand in general ; and if
the ministers negfect the true interest of
their sovereign, which is to advise him to
take sudi measures as may render him
amiable to his people, it is high time for
the parliament to interpose; and that, I
hope, they will now do, by giving a n^gap
tire to this question.
The question being put, it was deter-
mined in fiivour of the proposal, for main-
taimag the Hanoverian troops, by 260
ifgaiost 193.
Debate m the Commoks ok takiko
TBI Havovkrian Taoops into Bri-
tish Pat. From the Qmitienuui?$ Ma*
Moiie.*] DecenriMT 10. The Hooso
having rasolved itself into a Comnoitteo of
Supper,
Sir William Yonge rose and said :
Sir ; though the general state of
the kingdoms of Europe cannot be sup«
posed to be wholly unknown in this as-
sembly, yet since the dedsion of the ques-
tion now before us must depend upon tiie
conceptions which every man has formed
with regard to the afiairs on the continent,,
it will M necessary to exhibit them to view
in a narrow ccmipass, that nothing which
may contribute to our information nay
be overlooked or forgotten.
The late emperor, for some time beferer
his death, finding that there remdned
little hopes of mde issue, and that hia
family would be consequently in danger
of losing part of the honours and dignitiea
which it had so long enjoyed, turned hJs
thou^;hts to the security or his heieditarr
dominions, which he entailed upon hia
eldest dau^ter, to prsserve them from
bdng broken into fragments, and divided
among the numerous pretenders to them :
and that dus settlement midit be preserve
ed from vidation, employed all the oppor*
tuddes which any extraordinary con«
junctures presented to him of obtdning
the concurrence and ratification of the
ndghbooring states.
As it was dways the interest of this
nation to support the House of Austria^
as a counterbalance to the power of France,
it was easy to procure from us a solema
accession to this important settlement;
and we therefore promised to support it,
whenever it should be attacked. Thh
was in redity only a promise to be watch*
fd for our own a^jranta^, and to hinder
that increase of French infiuence, whidi
must at length be fatd to oursdves.
The like engagements were proposed
to many other powers, which proposda
were by most of them accepted, and
among others by France, upon considem-
tioo d* a very large increase of her domi«
nions; and it was hoped, that whatever
ml^t be determined ny the electors widi
reject to the imperid dignity, Uie here*
ditary dominions of fhe House of Austria
would renuun in the same family, and
that France wodd be hindered by her own
engagements lirom disturbti^ the peace of
Che empire.
* Compiled by Dr. Johnson.
1019]
16.GE0SGE n*
. But no sooner did th^detth .of the em-
peror give, the enemies oi the House of
Austria hopes of gratifying without dan-
ger their resentment and ambition^ than
almost all the neighbouring princes began
to reme their pretensions, and appeared
resolved to recover by force, wlmt they
alleged to have been only by force with-
held from them. Armies were raised on
all sides, invasions either . attempted or
threatened from every quarter, and the
whole world looked upon the daughter of
the emperor of Germany either with pity
or with jov, as unable to make any stand
against the ^eral confederacy, and
under a necessity of yielding to the most
oppressive terms, and purcnasing peace
fiwn her enemies at their own price.
It cannot be mentioned, wiUiout mdig-
nation, that this universal combination
was formed and conducted by the influ-
ence of the French, who, after having
•greed to the Pragmatic Sanction, omit-
lea no endeavours to promote the violation
of it; and not only incited the neighbour-
in^ princes to assert their daim by pro-
mises of assistance, but poured numerous
armies into the empire, not only to pro-
cure by force, and wiUiout the least re-
card to eouity, an election in favour of
. tne duke or Bavaria, but to assist him in
the invasion of the Austrian dominions,
of which the settlement had been ratified
by their concurrence, purchased at a price
whidi might justly have been thought too
mmt, even though" they had observed
tneir stipulations.
The pleas which they advanced in vm-
dication of their conduct, it is not neces-
sary to relate; since, however artfiiUy
they may be formed, the common sense
of mankind must perceive them to be false.
It is to no purpose, that they declare
themselves not to have receded fiom their
promise, because they enter the empire
oolv as auxiliaries, and their troops act
imder the command of the elector of Ba-
varia; since he that furnishes troops for
the invasion of those territories which he
is obliged to protect, may very justly
be considered as an invader: as he who
assists a thief, partakes the guilt of theft.
All contracts. Sir, whether between
states or private persons, are to be under-
stood according to the known intention
of the two parties ; and I suppose it will
not be pretended, by the most hardened
advocat6 for the conduct of the French,
that Uie late emperor would have pur-
chased, at so deaca rate, their accession
DebaU h ike Cammom on taking [](K0
to the Pragmatic Sanction, if bebadsap-
posed, that they still thought themseWes
at liberty to employ all their trcmre
and their force in assisting others to no-
late it
It is well known, that an unsuccessful
war, which the French are likemse su>-
pected of assisting, had, a short time be-
fore die death of die emperor, weakened
his forces, and exhaustCKl his revenoes.
and that therefore, when he was surprised
by death, he left lus family impoverished
and defenceless; so that his dau^ter
being without money or armies, and press-
ed by enemies on every side of her domi-
nions, was immediately reduced to such
distress as perhaps she only was able to
support, and such difficulties as do other
would have entertained the least hofe of
being able to surmount.
In the first crush of her calamities, when
she was driven by the torrent of invasicm
from fortress to fortress, and firom king-
dom to kingdom, it is not to be denied,
that most of the guarantees of the Prag-
matic Sanction stood at gaze, without at-
tempting that relief whidi she incessantlj
called upon them toaffi>rdher; and which
indeed they could deny upon no other
pretence, than that they w^re conrioced
It would be inefiectual, that her rain was
not to be prevented, and that she must
be swaJlowed up by the dehige of war,
which it appeared impossiUe to resist or
to divert*
The queen, however, determined to as-
sert her rights, and to defend her domi-
nions ; and therefore assembled her forces,
and made such opposition, that some of
her enemies, findmg the war, to whidi
they were encouraged only by a belief of
the certainty of success, likely to become
more hazaraous than they expected, soon
desisted from their claims, and consented
to peace upon moderate condidoos; and
the most formidable of her enemies, being
alienated from the French by experience
of their treachery, and perhiqps mtimidated
by the bravery of his enemies, was at let
willing to become neutral, and to be sate-
fied with the recovery of his own dainty
without assisting the elector of Bavaria.
Thus far has diis illustrious princess
struggled in the tempest of the continent
with very little assistance from her con-
federates ; but it cannot be supposed, that
these violent efforts have not exhsnsted
her strength, or that she must not be at
length overpowered by the armiea which
thp French, enraged at the disappoint-
IQ2I j Hanoverian Troops into BriHsk Pay.
ment of their schemes, are sending ajtainst '
her. She has an inoontestible claim to
our assistance, promised by the most so*
lemn stipulations, and therefore not to be
withheld upon any views of present ad-
vantage. The prudence and magnanimity
which she has oiscovered, prove, that she
deserves to be supported upon the common
principies of generosity, which would not
luffisr a brave man to look idly upon a
heroine struggling with multitudes ; and
th« opposition which she has been able to
make alone, shews that assistance will not
be vain.
These considerations, though, since par-
liament has determined to assist her, they
are not immediately necessary in a ques-
tion which relates only to the manner in
which that assistance shall be given, are
jet not entirely useless ; since they may
contribute to overbalance any prejudices
that noay obstruct the schemes wnich have
been formed, and quicken the endeavours
of men who might be inclined to reject
those counsels to which any specious ob-
jections shall be raised, or to lose that
time in deliberation, which ought to be
employed in action.
As the assistance of this distressed
princess has been already voted by parlia-
ment, it is now no longer to be enquired,
what advantages can be gained to this na-
tion by protecting her, or whether the be-
nefits ot victory will be equivalent to the
hazards of war? These questions are alrea-
dy determined. It has already appeared
necessary to this House, to restore the
baiance of power by preserving the House
of Austria ; and the only question, there-
fore, that remains is, by what means we
ihall endeavour to preserve it? and whe-
ther the means that have already been
Q*ed, deserve our approbation ?
Among the several schemes that were
proposed for this end, it appeared most
proper to the ministry to form an army in
the Low Countries, whence they might be
ready to march wherever their presence
might be required, and where they might
be easily suf^h'ed with necessaries. Inis
army was to be raised with expedition;
the affiurs of the queen of Hungary could
admit of no delay ; auxiliary troops were
therefore to be hired* and it appeared to
^emmore piroper to hire the troops of
Hanover tbsoi of any other nation.
That the affiiirs of the queen of Hungary
would admit of no dday, and that there-
fore the army in tlie Low Countries was
^«y speedily to be formed, cannot be
A. D. 1748.
[KM
doubted bv any one that compares her
power with that of the nation against
which she was ctmtending ; a nation in*
cited by a long train of success to a^ura
to universal monarchy ; a nation which
has long been aasembfing armies, and ae>
cumulating treasures, in order to -ffive hnr
to the rest of the world; which had ^
many years stood against the united force
of 1^ the bordering powers, and to whidi
the House of AuJstria is not equal in its
full strength, much less when its treasorea
had been exhausted, and its troops deatroy^
ed in an unfortunate war before the death
of the emperor; and when ahnost every
part of its dominions was threatened by a
particultf power, and the troops of each
provmce were employed in the defence of
Uieir own towns; so that no great armies
could be collected, because no place oouM
be left without defenders.
Such was the state of the Austrian di^
minions, when the troops of France brok«
in upon them ; and in this state it
reamly be acknowledged, that
courage nor prudence could procure
cess; that no stratagems cottla long div€»<t
nor any resistance repel, such superiority
of power; and that tfaovfore relief must
be speedy to be efficacious.
Tiiat to bring the relief which we had
promised, with expedition sufficient to
procure any advantages to our alljr, to pr^
serve her provinces from being laid warto^
her towns from bein^ stomied, and her
armies from being rumed; to repress tke
confidence of the French, and recall them
from conquests to the defence of their
own territories, it was apparently neces-
sary to hire foreign troops ; for to hate
sent over all our own forces, had hem to
have tempted the French to change their
design of invading the Austrian dominions,
into that of attackinff Great Britain, and
attempting to add this kingdom to their
other conquests; to have raised new troopa
with expedition equal to the necessity that
demanded them, was either absolutely im-
possible, or at least very difficult ; and
when raised, they would have been only
new troops, who, whatever might be their
courage, would have been without skill in
war, and would ther^ore have been dis-
trusted by those whom they assisted, and
despised by those whom they onposed. '
Nothing, therefore remaineo, but that
auxiliaries should be tried, and the only
question then to be decided, was, what na-
tion should be solicited to supply us?
Nor was this so difficult to be aosweied-as
VKUf]
16 OBO^GB 11.
DeiaU in Ae Cammans am iaikig
[im
in former tknes» iinoe thece wfls not the
umal liberty of choice; many of the
prinoeewho send their troofM to fight for
0dier powen, were at that time either in-
fluenced by the promises^ or bribed by the
•money, or intimidated by the forces of
France ; sonie of them were enga^ in
ndiemes for enlarging their own dommiona,
and Uierefore were unwilling to supply
otfiers widi those troops for which they
were themsehres projecting employment ;
smd perhaps, of some othen it might rea-
mbmy be doubted* whether they would
not betray the cause which thev should
be retained to support, and whether they
would not in secret wish the depression of
the oueen of Hungary, by means of those
innnen whon^ Uiey promised to resist.
1^, aooidst all these oensiderations,
•which there was not time completely to
adjust, it was necessary to turn weir eyes
Mon some power to which none of tliese
oDfectioos could be made ; and therefore
4he¥ immediately fixed upon the electorate
«f Hands«r, as subject to the same mo-
•osfch, and of which, therefore, the troops
jnig^ be properly considered as our na-
tional allies, whose interest and inclinations
must be the same with our own, and whose
.fidelity might be warranted by our own
aoteielgu.
> It was no small advantage that the con-
tract for these troops couM be made with-
-out the delay of tedious neg ociations ;
tiiat tiiey were ready to man£ upon the
first notice, and that they had been long
learned in the ezactest discipline.
The concurrenoe of all tnese circum-
atances easily determined our ministers in
their choice, and the troops were ordered
to Join the British in the Low Countries;
a step which so nrach alarmed the French,
that diey no longer endeaTOured to pudi
forward their conquests, nor appeared to
entertain any other design than that of
defending themsehres, and returning in
safety to their own country.
Such was the conduct of our ministry,
such were their motives, and such has been
their succem ; nor do I doubt but this
House will, upon the most rigorous exa-
vmuition, feid reason to aoprovc both their
integrity and prudence. 6ftJieir integrity
^ey could gnre no greater proof, than
their confidence of tte agreement of this
House to measures whidi, though con-
formable in general to our resdutions,
were not particularly communicated to
ns; because, indeed, itcodd not be dmie
•without lom of tittie, which it was neoes-
to improve with the utmost diBgeDce,
and a discovery of those designs, wliich
ought only to be known by Uie eoemy
after thev were executed. Of their pru-
dence, their success is a sufficient evi-
dence; and therefore I cannot doubt but
gcntienien will give a sanction to thai
conduct, by providing, aooordii^ to the
estimates liefore the committee, for the
support of troops, which have b(»D foood
of so great use.
Lord Pawktt ••
Sir ; the hon. gentleman hss whh
so much clearness and elegance displajed
the state of Europe, explained the neces-
sity of hiring foreisn troops, and showd
the reasons for whidi the troops ofHi-
nover were preferred to those of any other
nation, that I believe it not to be of «ij
use to urae other arguments than those
which he has produced.
As therefore it is indisputably neces-
sary to hire troops, and none can be hired
which can be so sdely trusted as those of
Hanover, I cannot but agree with the boo.
^ntleman, that this measure of his ma-
jesty ought to be supported.
Sir John St. Aubyn followed lord Pmr-
lett. For the Speedi of the hon. barone:
see p. 949.
Mr. Bladen :
Sir; if zeal were any secarity
against ervor, I should not wulingly op-
pose the hon. ^ntleraan who has now de-
clared his sentiments ; and declared then
with such ardour, as can hardly be pro-
duced but by sincerity; and of whom
therefore it cannot be doubted, tbst he
has delivered his real opinion; that he
fears, from the measures which he cenBure,
very great calamities; that he thinbthe
Eublic tranquillity in danger; and be-
eves that his duty to his country obliged
him to speak on this occasion witn unusial
vehemence.
But I am too wdl acquainted with his
candour to imagine, that he expects hisss-
sertions to be any farther regarded thffi
they convince : or that he desires to deber
others firom the same freedom of reasoo
which he has himseVused. I shall there-
fore proceed to examine his opinion, and
to show the reasons by which I sm is*
duced to differ from him.
The ar^;uments upon which he hs$
chiefly insisted, are die danger of hifing
the troops ^t Hanover in any ciicuBr
l(fiS]
Hanoverian Troops into British Pay.
A. p, 1742.
[lose
iUncef; and the impropriety of hiring
them now without ihe previous approbation
of parliament.
The danger of taking into our pay the
forces of Hanoyer, the contrariety of this
conduct to the act of Settlement, and the
infraction of our natural privileges, and
the violation of our liberties which is
threatened by it, have been asserted in
very strong terms, but I think not proved
with pri^rtionate force; for we have
heard no regular deduction of conse-
quences by which this danger might be
shown, nor have been informed, how the
engagement of 16,000 Hanoverians to
serve us against France for the ensuing
year, can be considered as m6re destruc-
tive to our liberties than any other forces.!
It is indeed insmuated, that this conduct
will furnish a dangerous precedent of pre-
ference granted to Hanover above other
nations ; and diat this preference may gra-
dually be advanced, till in time Hanover
may by a servile ministry be preferred to
Great Britain herself, and that therefore
all such partiality ou^ht to be crushed in
the beginning, and its authors pursued
with indignation and abhorrence.
That to prefer the interest of Hanover
to that of Great Britain would be in a very
high degree criminal in a British ministry,
I believe no man in this House will go
about to deny ; but if no better proof can
be nroducedC that such preference is in-
tended, than the contract which we are
now desired to ratify, it may be with rea-
son hoped, that such atrocious treachery is
vet at a great distance ; for how does the
lure of Hanoverian troops show any prefe-
rence of Hanover to Great Britain ?
The troops of Hanover are not hired by
the ministry as braver or more skilful than
those of our own country ; they are not
hired to conunand or to instruct, but to
assist us ; nor can I discover, supposing it
possible to have raised with equal expedi-
tion the same number of forces in our own
country, how the ministry can be charged
vith preferring the Hanoverians by ex-
posing them to danger and fatigue.
But if it be confessed, that such num-
bers would not possibly be raised, or, at
least, not possibly disciplined with the ex-
pedition tiiat the queen of Hungary re-
<{uired, it will be found, that the Hanove-
i^ians were at most not preferred to our
ovTD nation but to other foreigners, and
&r such preference reasons have been al-
^^y given which I shall esteem conclu-
sive, tin 1 hear them confuted.
[VOL. :(LI>.]
The other objection oxi vjrhich the lion«
gentleman thought it proper to insist, was
Sie neglect of demancung.from parliament
a previous approbation of the ^contract
which is now before us ; a neglect, in his
opinion, so criminal, that the ministry can*
not be acquitted of arbitrary government,
of squandering the public money by their
own caprice, and of assuming to them^
selves the whole power of government.
But the proof of this enormous usurpa^
tion has not yet been produced; for it
does not yet appear, that there was time
to communicate their designs to parlia-
ment, or that they would not have been
defeated by communication ; and there*
fore it is yet not evident, but that when
they are censured for not having laid their
scheme before parliament, they are coa»
demned for omitting what was not possl>
bly to be done, or what could not have
been done, without betraying their trust
and injuring their country.
It 18 allowed, that parliament had re-
solved to assist tlie queen of Hungary,
and therefore nothing remained for the
ministers but to execute with their utmost
address the resolution that had been formr.
ed ; if for the prosecution of this design
they should be found to have erred in
their choice of nieans, their mistakes, un-
less some ill designs mav justly be sus-
Eected, are to be imputed to the frailty of
uman nature, and rather to be pitied, and
relieved as misfortunes than punished as
crimes.
But I doubt not, that in the course of
our deliberations, we shall find 'reason for
concluding that they have acted not only
with fidelity but prudence ; that they have
chosen the means by whidh the great end
which parliament proposed, the succour
of the queen of Hungary, and consequent-
ly the re-establishment of the balance of
power, will be most easily attained, and
that thev have taken into the pay of this
nation those troops which may be trusted
with the greatest security, as they' have
the same prince and the same interest.
But the hon. gentleman appears in-
dined to advance a new doctrme, and to
insinuate, that when any vote is passed by
parliament, the ministers are to suppose
some conditions which are to be observed,
though they were never mentioned, and
without which the voice of parliament is
an empty sound. In pursuance of this
supposition, he calls upon us to recollect
the time and circumstances in which tliis
vote was passed ; he reminds us, that the
1027J
16 GEORGE IL
Debate m the Cammom on taUtig
[1028
coDcession was made in a sudden eztdta^
tion of our hearts, in the raptures of
triumph, and amidst the shouts of con-
quest, when every man was forming ex-
pectations which MLve never been gratified,
and planning schemes which couJd never
be perfected.
He seems therefore to think, that our
j&misters insidiously took advantage of
our intoxication, and betrayed us in a
fit of thoughtless jollity to a promise,
which when made, we hardly understood,
and which we may therefore now retract.
He concludes, that the concession which
might then escapd us ought not to have
been snatched by our ministers, and made
the foundation of their conduct, because
they knew it was made upon false supposi-
tions, and in prospect of a recompcnce
that never would be granted.
I hope there is no necessity for declar-.
Sng, that this reasoning cannot safely be
aomitted, since if the vote of parliament be
not a sufficient warrant for any measure,
no man can undertake the adminbtration
of our affiiirs, and that government which
no man will venture to serve must be quick-
ly at an end.
For my part, I know not how the na^
tion or parliament has been disappointed
of any just expectations, nor can I con-
ceive that any such disappointments va-
cate their votes or annul their resolutions,
and therefore I cannot but think the mi-
nistry sufficiently justified, if they can
show that they have not deviated from
Ifaem.
Lord Quarendon:
Sir; I am so far from thinking that
the past conduct or the present proposals
of tne ministry deserve approbation, that,
in my opinion, all the arguments which
have been produced in their fisivour are iq)-
parently fallacious, and even the positions
on which they are founded, and wnieh are
laid down as uncontrovertible, are gene-
rally false.
It is first asserted, that we are indispen-
,sably obliged to assist the queen of Hun-
gary against FVance, and to support her in
the possession of the hereditary dominions
of the Austrian House, and from thence is
precipitately inferred the necessity of as-
semming armies, and hiring mercenaries,
of exhausting our treasure, and heaping
pew burthens upon the public.
That we concurred with other powers
in promising to support the Pragmatic
Sanction is not to be denied, nor do I in-
tend to insmuate, that the ftidi o£tieaiies
ought not strictly to be kept; bat we are
not obliged to perfom^ more thMi we pro-
mised, or take upon ourselves the burthen
which was to be supported by the united
strength of many potentates, fuid of which
we only ^gaged to bear a eertain pert.
We ought undoubtedly to famish the
troops which we promised, and oi^it to
have sent them, when they wero fint de-
manded; but Uiere is no neoessitjr that
we should supply the deficiencies c^everj
other power, and that we should deter-
mine to stand alone in defenee of the
Pragmatic Sanction; that we should by
romantic generosity impoverish qar coun-
try, and entail upon remotest posterity
poverty and taxes. We ou^ to be
nonest at all events, we are at liberty like-
wise to be generous at our own ezpence,
but 1 think we have hardly a right to
boast of our liberality, when we oootract
debts for Uie advantage of tiie House of
Austria, and leave them to be paid by the
industry or firugality of succeeaing ages.
It is therefore at least dubious, whether
we oo^t to hazard more than we pro-
mised m defence of the House of Austria ;
and conseouently the first proposition of
those who nave undertaken the defisDce of
the ministry requires to be better estab-
lished, bef(Me it becomes the basis of aa
argument.
But though it be aflowed, that we oqght
to exceed our stipulations, and eoeage
more deeply in thu cause than we hm
promised, I cannot yet discover upon what
principles it can be proved, tiiat 16,000
Hanoverians ought to be hired. Why
were not our troops sent, which have been
so long maintained at home only ibr op-
pression and show ? Why have they not
at last been shown the use of those wesuxms
which they have so long carried, and the
advantages of that exercise which they
have been taught to perform with so oracs
address? Why have they not at length
been shown for what they had so kmg re-
ceived their pay, and informed, tiiat the
duty of a soloier is not wholly pedbrmed
by strutting at a review ?
If it be urged, tliat so great a number
could not be sent out of the kingdom
without exposing it to iqsults and irrup-
tions, let it be remembered howsm^a
force was found sufficient for the defence
of the kingdom m the late war, when the
French were masters of a fleet which dis-
puted for many years the empire of the
sea; and it wiu appear^ whetiisr it ou^
1089]
Hoj^pnerian Troops inio British Pajf*
A. D. 1742.
[1030
to be imputed to prudence or to cowardice,
that our ministers cannot now think the
nation safe without thrice the number,
though our fleets cover the ocean, and
ste&r from one coaat to another without an
enemy.
But to show more fully thfe insufficiency
of the vindication which has been at-
tempted, and prore, that no concession
will enable die minbtry to defend their
schemes, even this assertion shall be
admitted. We will allow for the pre-
eenty that it is necessary to garrison an
island with numerous forces a^nst an
enemy that has no fleet. I will grant,
that mvaders may be conveyed through
the air, and that the formidable, the de-
testable Pretender, may by some subter-
raneous passage enter this kingdom, and
start on a sudden into the throne. Yet
will not all this liberality avail our minis-
ters, since it mav be objected, tliat new
forces m^t easily have been raised, and
oar 4IW1I island have been at once de^
fended, and the queen of Hungary as-
sisted by our native troops.
Since the necessity of expedition is
urged, it may reasonably be enapired,
what it was tfaidt appeared so immediately
necessary, or what has been brought to
pass by this wonderful expedition ? Was
It necessary to foi^n an army to do no-
thing ? Could not an expedition in which
nothing was performed, m which nothing
was attempted, have been delayed for a
short time? and might not the queen of
Hunsary have been preserved equally,
wbetner the troops of ner allies slept and
fiutened in her country or their o^n ?
Nothing surely can be more ridiculous
tlum to expatiate upon the necessitv of
raising with expedition an useless body of
forces, which has only been a burthen to
the country in which it has been stationed,
and for which pay is now demanded,
though they have neither seen a siege nor
a battle; tnoogh they have made no at-
tempt themselves, nor hindered any that
mignt have been made by the enemy.
To make this plea yet more contempti-
ble, we are informed, that if we had raised
an army of our countrymen, they would
have been unacauainted wjth arms and
discipiiney and therefore they could not
have done what has been done by these
fiff-fiumed Hanoverians. This indeed I
cannot understand, having never found,
that Englishmen needed any documents or
rdies to enaUe them to eat and drink at
the ei^ence of others^ to bask in the sun,'
or to loiter in the street, or perform any
of the wonders that m^y be ascribed to
our new auxiliaries ; and therefore I can-
not but thjnk, that aU the actions of the
four months for which those forces expect
to be paid, might have been brought to
pass by new raised British troops, who
might in the mean time have learned their
exercise, and have been made equal to
any other soldiers that had never seen a
battle.
But if foreign troops were necessary, I
am still at a loss to find out why those of
Hanover were chosen, since it appears to
me, that by hiring out his troops to Great
Britain, our monarch only weakens one
hand to strengthen the other. It might
be expected, that he should have em-
ployed these troops against France with-
out hire, ^ince he is not less obliged, either
by treaty or policy, to protect the House
of Austria as elector of Hanover, than as
king of Great Britain.
Since therefore the troops of Hanover
were hired, without the consent of parlia-
ment, they have hitherto performed no-
thing ; and since it is reasonable to expect,
that without being paid by Great Britain
they will be employed against the French,
I think it expedient to discharge them
from our service^ and to delay the pay
whidi is required for the last four monthly
till it shall appear how they have de«
served it.
Mr. Henry Fox :
Sir; though the observations of
the right hon. gentleman must be allowed
to be ingenious, and though the eloquence
with which he has delivered them, natu- '
rally excites attention and regard, yet I
am. obliged to declare, that I have re-
ceived ratlier pleasure than conviction
from his oratory; and tt^at while I ap-
plaud his imagination and his diction, I
cannot but conclude, that they have been
employed in bestowing ornaments upoa
error.
I shall not indeed attempt to confute
every assertion which 1 think fiedse, or
detect the fallacy of every argument which
appears to me sophistical, but shall leave
to others the province of showing the
necessity of engaging in the war on the
continent, of employ ioe/ a large force for
die preservation of the House of Austria^
and of forming that army with the utmost
expedition, and of taking auxiliaries into
our i>ay, and confine myself to this single
question^ whether; supposing auxiliaries
1031]
16 GEORGE IL
Debate (n the Commtms on iaUng
[1098
necessary, it was not prudent to hire the
troops of Hanover.
Nothing can be, in my opinion, more
apparent, than that if the necessity of
hiring troops be allowed, which surely can-
not be questioned, the troops of Hanover
are to be chosen before any other, and that
the ministry consulted in their resolutions
the real interest of their country, as well
as that of our ally.
The great argument which has in all
ages been used s^ainst mercenary troops,
is the suspicion ^ich may justly be en*
tcrtained of their fidelity. Mercenaries,
it is observed, fight only for pay, without
any afiection for the master whom they
serve, without any zeal for the cause which
' they espouse, and without any prospect of
advantage fi*om success, more than empty
praises, or the plunder of the field, and
therefore have no motives to incite them
against dan^, nor any hopes to support
them in fatigues ; that they can lose no-
thing by flight, but plunder, nor by
treachery, but honour ; and that therefore
they have nothing to throw into the ba-
lance a^inst the love of life, or the
temptations of a bribe, and will never be
able to stand against men that fight for
their native country under the command
of generals whom they ^eem and love,
and whom they cannot desert or disobey,
without exposing themselves to perpetual
exile, or to capital punishment.
Hiese arguments have always been of
great force, and therefore that nation
whose defence has been entrusted to fo-
reigners, has alirays been thought in
danger of ruin. Yet there have been con-
lunctures in which almost every state
has been obliged to rely upon merce-
naries, and in compliance with imme-
diate necessity, to depend upon the
fidelity of those who had no particular in-
terest in supporting them.^ But with
much greater reason may we trust the
success of the present war, in some de-
gree, to the troops of Hanover, as they
are perhaps the only foreign forces against
which the arguments already recited are
of no force. They are foreigners, indeed,
as they are bom in another country, and
governed by laws different from ours ; but
theyarethesubjects of the same prince, and
therefore naturally fight under the same
command ; they have Uie same interest wiUi
ourselves in the present contest, they have
the same hopes and the same ffears, they
recommend themselves equally to their
aoxereign by their bravery, and can nei-
ther discover cowardice nor treadiery,
without suffering all the punishment tlol
can be feared by our native troops, sinee
their conduct must be censurea by the
same prince, of whose approbation they
are equally ambitious, and of whose di»*
pleasure they are equally afiraid.
As to the troops which any oeotral
prince might fumisin, there would be rea-
son to fear, that either for larger pay, or
upon any casual dispute that m^t arise^
they might be withdrawn from our service
when they were most needed, or transferred
to the enemy at a time when his distress
might compel him to offer high terms, and
when therefore there was a near prospect
of an advantageous peace. But of the
troops of Hanover no sudi suspicion can
be formed, since they cannot ennge
against us without rebelling against uieir
prince ; for it cannot be imagined, that his
majesty will fiffht on one side as elector of
Hanover, ana on the other as king of
Great Britain ; or that he will obstruct the
success of his own arms, by fumishiiig ^
troops of Hanover to the enemies of this
kingdom.
It therefore appears very evident, tliat
we have more to hope and less to fear
from the troops of Hanover, than firom
any other ; since they have the same rea-
son with ourselves to desire the success of
the queen of Hungary, and to dread the
increasing greatness of the French ; and
that they can be suspected ndther of
treachery nor desertion. It is not very
consistent with that candour with wlncfa
every man ought to dispute on public a^
fairs, to censure those measures which
have been proposed, without proposing
others that are more eligible ; for it is the
duty of every man to promote the boaness
of the public ; nor do I know why he that
employs' his sagacity only to omnict it,
should imaffine, that he is of any use in
the nationiu council.
I doubt not but I shall hear many ob-
jections against the use of these troops,
and that upon this question, virulence and
ridicule will be equally employed. Bat
for my part, 1 shall oe httle afEx^ied either
with the laughter that may be raised by
some, or the indignation that may be ex-
pressed by others, but shall vote for the
continuance of these measures tiO better
shall be proposed ; and shall think, that
these troops ought to be retained, unless
it can be shown, that any others may be
had, who may be less cumgeroiiSy or of
greater use*
Hanooerian Troops into British Pay.
lOSS]
^It.PiH:
Sir ; if the hoo. gentleman deter-
mines to abandon his present sentiments
as soon as any better measures are pro-
posedy I cannot but believe^ that the mi-
nistrj irill very quickly be deprived of one
of their ablest defenders; for I think the
measures which have hitherto been pur-
sued so weak and pernicious, that scarcely
any alteration can be proposed, that will
not be for the advantage oi the nation.
He has already been informed, that
there was no necessity of hiring auxiliary
troops, since it does not yet app^r, that
either justice or policy required us to en-
g^e in the quarrels of the continent, that
Siere was any need of forming an army in
the Low Countries, or that, in order to
form an army, auxiliaries were necessary.
Bat not to dwell upon disputable ques-
tions, I think it may be justly concluded,
that the measures of our ministry have
been ill concerted, because it is undoubt-
edlv wrong to squander the public money
without effect, and to pay armies only to
be a show to our friends, and a jest to our
enemies.
The troops of Hanover, whom we are
DOW expected to pay, marched into the
Low Countries, inaeed, and still remain in
the same place ; they marched to the place
most distant from enemies, least in danger
of an attack, and most strongly fortified,
if any attack had been designed ; nor have
any claim to be paid, but that they left
their own country for a place of greater
security.
It is always reasonable to judge of the
Aiture by the past ; and therefore it is rea-
sonable to conclude, that the services of
these troops will not, next year, be of
equal importance with that for which they
are now to be paid ; and I shall not be
surprised, though the opponents of the
ministry should be chaDenged, after such
another glorious campaign, to propose
better men, and should l^ told, tnat. the
money of this nation cannot be more pro-
perly employed than in hiring Hanove-
rians to eat and sleep.
But to prove yet more particularly, that
better measures may be taken, and that
niore useful troops, may be retained, and
that therefore the hon. gentleman may be
expected to quit those to whom he now
adheres, I shall show, that in hiring the
forces of Hanover» we have obstructed our
own designs ; that we have, instead of as-
sisting the queen of Hungary, withdrawn
A. IX 17«.
[lOS*
part of her allies from her; and ihat we
nave burthened the nation with troops,
from whom no service can be reasonany
expected.
The advocates finr the ministry have on.
this occasion affected to speak of the ba-
lance of power, the Pragmatic Sanction^
and the preservation of the queen of Hun^
gary, not only as if ihey were to be the
chief care of Great Britain, which, though
easily controvertible, might perhaps, in
compliance with long prejudices, be admits
ted» but as if they were to be the care of
Great Britain alone; as if the power of.
France were formidable to no other people,
as if no other part of the world would be
injured by becoming a province to an uni-
versal monardiy, and being subjected to*
an arbitrary government of a French de-
puty, by beinff drained of its inhabitants,
only to extend the con<^uests of its master s»
and to make other nations equallv mise*
rable, and by being oppressed with exor*
bitant taxes, levied by militar^r executions*
and employed only in supporting the state
of its oppressors. They dwell upon the
importance of public &ith, and the neces-
sity of an exact observation of treaties; a»
if the Pragmatic Sanction had been signed
by no other potentate than the kii» of
Great Britain, qf ib if the public faith
were to be obligatory to us only.
That we shoidd inviolably observe our
treaties, a[nd observe them, though every,
other nation should disregard them ; that
we should show an example of fidelity to
mankmd, and stand firm, though we should
stand alone in the practice of virtue, I
slnll readily allow ; mad therefore I am far
fnmi advising that we should recede from
our stipulations, whatever we may sufier
by performing them, or neglect the support
of the Pragmatic Sanction, however we
may be at present embarrassed, or how*
ever inconvenient it may be to assert it.
But surely for .the same reason that we
observe our own stipulations, we ought to
incite other powers likewise to the obser-
vation of theirs ; at least not contribute to
hinder it. But howis our present conduct
agreeable to these principles I The Prag-
matic Sanction was confirmed not only by
the king of Groat Britam, but by the elec**
tor likewise of Hanover, who is therefore
equally obliged, if treaties constitute obli-
gation, to defend the House of Austria
against tiie attacks of any foremi power,
and to send in his proportion oftroops to
the support of the queen of Hungary.
Whether these troppa have been aent»
10S5]
16 GEORGE U.
DehaU in the 'Commons on iaUng
[lOM
(hose whose provinces obli^ them to some
knowledge of foreign affims, can inform
the House with more certainty than I;
but since we have not heard them men-
tioned in this debate* and have found by
experience that none of the merits of that
doctorate are passed over in silence, it
may, I tlunk, &irly be concluded, that the
distresses of the illustrious aueen of Hun-
gary have yet received no alleviation from
ber alliance with Hanover, tbat her com-
plaints have moved no compassion at that
court, nor the justice of her cause obtained
To what can we impute this nepligence
of treaties, this disregard of justice, this
defect of compassion, but to the pernicious
counsels of uiose men who have advised
his majesty to hire to Great Britain those
troops which he should have employed in
the assistance of the queen of Hungary ?
for it is not to be imagined, that his ma-
£^y has more or less regard to justice as
g of Great Britain, than as elector of
Hanover ; or that he would not have sent
his proportion of troops to the Austrian
army, nad not the temptations of grrater
profit been industriously laid before him.
But this is not all th^t may be urged
r' ist this conduct ; for can we imagine,
the power of France is less, or that
her designs are less formioable to Hanover
than Co Great Britain ^ nor is it less
necessary for the security of Hanover, that
the House of Austria should be re-estab-
lished in its former grandeur, and enabled
to support the liberties of Europe agaisttt
the bold attempts for universal monarchy.
If therefore our assistance be an act of
honesty, and granted in consequence of
treaties, why may it not equally be requir-
ed of Hanover? And if it be an act of
generosity, why should this nation alone
be obliged to sacrifice her own interest to
that of others ? Or why should the elec-
tor of Hanover exert his liberality at die
expeoce of Great Britain ?
It is now too apparent, that this great,
this powerful, this formidable kingdom, is
considered only as a province to. a de^u-
cable electorate ; and that in consequence
of a scheme formed long ago, and inva-
riably pursued, these troops axe hired only
to dram this unhappy nation of its monqr*
Ibat they have hitherto been of no use to
Great Britain, or to Austria, is evident be-
yond controversy ; and therefore it is plain,
that they are retiuned only for the pivposes
of Hanover.
Hovniuck reason the transactionB' of
almost every year have given for sospect-
ing this ridiculous, ungrateful, and perfi-
dious partiality, it is not necessary to men-
tion. I doubt not but most of tbose who
sit in this House can recdlect a grrai
number of instances, from the pnvchase of
part of the Swedidi dominions, to tbe con-
tract whkh we are now called upon to
ratify. I hope few have forgotten the
memorable st^ulation for the Hessi&n
troops, for the forces of the duke of
Wouenbuttel, fMcb we were scarcely to
march beyond the verge of their ovn
country, or the ever memorable treaty, of
which Uie tendency is discovered in the
name ; the treaty by whidi we disunited
ourselves from Austria, destroyed that
building wludi we may perh^w now
endeavour, without success, to raise agam,
and weakened the only power whidi it
was our interecft to strenf^Uten.
To dwell upon all the instances of par-
tiality which have been shown, to remark
the yearly visits that have been made to
that delightful country, to reckon up all
the sums that have been spent to ag^an-
dize and enrich it, would be at once iovi-
dious and tiresome ; tiresome to diofie who
are afraid to hear the truth, and to those
who are unwilling to mention fieicts disho*
nourable or injurious to their cotmtrr:
nor shall I dwell any longer on thisuo-
pleasmg subject than to expresa mj hopes
that we shail not any longer sufer our-
selves to be deceived and o{^re88ed ; that
we shall at length perform the duty of the
representatives of the people, and by le*
fusing to ratify this contract, show, tbat
however the interest of Hanover haa been
preferred by the ministers, the parliameot
paya no regard but to that of Great Bri«
tain.
Mr. Horatio WdpoU :
Sir ; though I have lon^ conndered
the mercenary scribblers of disa£RsctioD to
the disgrace of the kingdom and the pest
of society, yet I was never so ftdly soisble
of their pernicious influence.
I have hitherto imagined, that tbe
weekly journalists and the occasiofttl
pampnleteers* were the oracles only of the
* " Among the pamphlets here alloded to,
" The Case of the Hanover. Forces in the Pay
of Great Britain," written by the ear? H
Chesterfield and Mr. Waller, madethe greatest
impreasion on the pabfie miad, and called forth
from Mr. Walpolehis oelebratad answer, ^*' Tbe
Interest of Cheat Britain atcadily pursoed,"
m]
Hanoverian, Troops tnlo British Pay. A. D. 1742;
I10»
Mrest of the people ; and that all those
FhoBi their birth or fortune has exalted
bove the crowd, and introduced to a more
xtensive conversation, had coomdered
iiem as wretches compelled to write by
fttnt, and obliged therefore to write what
nil most engage attention, by flattering
be envy or the malignity of mankind ; and
rfao therefore propagate falshoods them*
dves, not because they believe them, and
iBsemmate faction, not because thej^ are
f any party, but because they are either
Uiged to gratify those that employ them,
r to amuse the public with novelties, or
hturb it with alarms, that their works may
ot pass unregarded, and their labour be
^ in vain.
Thn is my opinion of the party writers,
Hd this I imacmed the opinion of the rest
f mankind, who had the same opportunir
les of information with myself: nor should
readily have believed, that any of their
erformances could have produced greater
Escts than those of inflaming the lowest
hsses of the people, and inciting drunk-
rds to insult their superiors, hra I not
erceived, that the hon. gentleman who
^ke last, owed his opinions of the par-
ality shown to the dominions of Hanover,
) a late treatise which has, on occasion of
^Icontract, been very industriously dis-
ened among the people*
Of this detestable pamphlet, I know not
le author, nor think he deserves that any
nqairy should be made aflter him, except
p a proclamation that may set a price
pon his head, and offer the same reward
r discovering hiib, as is given for the
Nnriction of wretches less criminal : nor
m I think the lenity of the government
isily to be distinguished from supineness
id negligence, while libels like this are
spersed openly in the streets,, anc^ sold in
3« without fear and without danger,
e sedition is professedly promoted, and
eason, or sentiments very nearly border-
ff upon treason, propagated wiuiout dis-
use.
The scribbler of this wicked treatise has
ideavoured to corrupt the principles of
B majesty's faithful subjects, not onl^ by
lifying the memory of the late lang,
boae justice, humanity, and integrity,
e generally reverenced, but by inslnu-
ikich, in the space of three weeks, passed
rough three editions, and was of coDsiderable
rvioe in removing the prejudices excited by
e dedamation of opposition.'* Coxe's Me-
Diotof lord Walpole.
ating likewise^ that 6ur present most gn*
cious sovereign has adopted the samia
schemes, and endeavours to aggiandiat
Hanover at the expence of Great Britam;
that all the measures that have been taken
with regard to the a&irs of the continent
have been contrived with no other view
than that of advancing the interest, eB»
laiging the bounds, and . increasing die
ri(£esof the Hanoverian territories; he
declares, that Great Britain has beeo^
steered by the rudder of Hanover, and
that the nation will soon be divided into
two more opposite and irreconcilable par-
ties, than ever yet disturbed the public
peace, Britons and Hanoverians.
That he himself, whoever he be, longa
for those times of division and confusioDy
may be easily believed, and the number of
those who have the same wishes with him*
self, is, I fear too great; but I believe
their hopes will not be encouraged, nor
their designs promoted in this House ; and
that none of those who are eatnlsted to
represent their country, will suffer them^
selves to be misled by such wicked insiniH
ations,
Mr. Nugent -•
Sir ; I know not for what reesoA
the hon. gentleman has thought it conve-
nient to retard £he deliberations of thia
House, by expatiating upon the &ls^
hood and malignity of a pamphlet, of
which the author is unknown, of whidi no
man has attempted the vindication, and
which, however diligently dispersed, or
however generally credited, i^pears to
have had no great influence upon the na^*
tion, nor to have produced any efects that
might give just occasion to so traoioBl an
outcry, to censures as vehement and bitter,
as if the trumpet of rebellion had been
sounded, as if naif the people had taken
arms against their governors, as if the ^
commonwealth was on the brink of dis80>
lution, and armies were in .&11 maroh
against the metropolis.
This pamphlet, with the rest of the peor
pie, I have read; and though I. am far
from thinking, that the censure of that
hon. gentleman can make a defence neces-
saiy, since indeed he has contented him^
self with invective instead of argument
and whatever he may disapprove^ haacon*-
futed nothing; and though I have no pai^
ticular reason for exposing myself as the
champion for this author, whoever be amy
be, yet I cannpt forbear to aflirm, that I
read some passages with centvic^B^ and
1039] 16 GEORGE U.
Dekde in the Comment €k iMng
llOW
that, in my opinion, they readre a different
answer from those which nave been yet
o&r^; and that the impressions which
li^e been made upon the people, will not
be efiaced by clamour ana n^, and tur-
bulence and menaces, which can affect
only the person of the writer, but must
leave his reasons in their full force, and
even with regard to his person, will have
very little e&ct ; for though some men in
power may be o&nded, it will not be easy to
quote any law that has been broken by him.
On this occasion, I cannot but animad*
vert, I hope with the same pardon from
the House, as has been obtained by the
hon. gentleman whom I am now following,
upon an expression in frequent use among
the followers of a court, whenever their
measures are censured with spirit and with
justice. The ptoers which they cannot
confute, and which they have not yet been
able to obtain the power of suppressing,
are asserted, to border upon treason ; and
the authors are threatened with punish-
ments, when they have nothing to fear
from a reply.
Treason is happily defined by our laws,
and therefore every man may know when
he is about to commit it, and avoid the
danger of punishment, by avoiding the act '
whidi will expose him to it ; but with re-
gard to the * oorders' of treason, I believe
no man will yet pretend to say how far
they extend, or how soon, or with how
little intention he may tread upon them.
Unhappy would be tlie man who should b^
punishea for bordering upon guilt, of
which those fiital borders are to be dilated
at pleasure by his judges, llie law. has
liitherto supposed every man, who is not
gnilty, to be innocent ; but now we find
that there is a kind of medium in which a
man may be in danger without guilt, and
that in order to security, a new degree of
caution is be<:ome necessarv ; for not only
crimes, but the borders of crimes, are to
be avoided.
What improvements may be made upon
this new system, how far the borders of
treason may reach, or what pains and pe-
nalties are designed for the borderers, no
degree of human sagacity can enable us to
foresee. Perhaps uie borders of royalty
may become sacred, as well as the borders
of treason criminal ; and as every place-
man, pensioner, and minister, may be said
to bonier on the court, a kmd of'^ sanctity
mi^ be communicated to his character,
and he that lampoons or imposes him^ may
border upon treason, , .
To dismiss this expresaioD with die €on«
tempt which it deserves, yet not without
the reflections which it naturally excites,
I shall only observe, that all extension c^
the power of the crown must be dangerous
to us; and that whoever endearours to
find out new modes of guQt, is to be look-
ed on, not as a good subject, but a bad ci-
tizen.
Having thus shown, that the censure
produced against this pamphlet is unintel-
ligible and indeterminate, I shall venture
to mentioif some of the assertions which
have heated the gentleman into ao much
fury. Assertions which I cannot be sap-
posed to favour, since 1 wish they mi^t
De fiatlse, and which I only produce in this
place to give some, whom their statioos
make acquainted widi public affiurs, an op
portunity of confuting theuL
It is asserted, that Uie French appear to
have treated all, our annamenta wntt con-
tempt, and to have pursued all their
schemes with the same confidence as if
they had no other enemy to fear than the
forces of Austria ; this is indeed no pleas-
ing observation, nor can it be 8U|^>06ed to
give satisfiu^tion to any Briton, to find the
reputation of our councils and of our arcu
so much diminished, to find the natioo
which lately gave laws to Europe, scarceh
admitted to friendship, or thought wtutby
of opposition in enmity, to hear that those
troops, which, m the days of our fbrm^
monarchs, shook die thrones of the conti-
nent, are passed by, without fear, and
without r^^Eurd, by armies marching again^
their allies, these allies in whose cause ther
formerly fought in the field. But the tnitL
of the assertion is too plain to all the na-
tions of the world ; and those whose inte-
rest it may be to conceal from their coun-
trymen what is known to all the condneot,
may rage, indeed, and threaten, but they
cannot deny it ; for what enterprise have
we hitherto either prevented or retarded?
what could we have done on one side, or
suffered on the other, if we had been
struck out from existence, which has not
been su&red, or not done, though our ar-
mies have been reviewed on the ccmtinent,
and, to make yet a better c^ow, lengthened
out by a line of 16,000 of the troops ot'
Hanover ?
It is asserted in the same treatise, that
the troops of Hanover cannot act agaiist
the kinp, and that therefore they are an
useless burthen to the state, that they com-
pose an army of which no other eflfect wD
be found but that they eat, and eat at the
1011]
HiaKMriait Tnops Into BritM Pay. A, X). lV42^
rime
xpence of Great Britun. This assertion
I mdeed.fiomewhat more contestable than
to former^ but is at least credible ; since
: we may be permitted on this, as on other
ccasionsy to judge of the future from the
Bst, we may conclude, that those who have
!t pass such opportunities as their enemies
ave in the height oP contempt and secu-
ity presented to them, will hardly ever
epair the effects of their conduct, by their
ravery or activity in another campaign ;
at that they will take the pay of Greait
(ritain, and, while they fktten in plenty,
nd unaccustomed afiiuence, look with
Teat tranquillity upon the distresses of
Lustria, and, in their indolence of glut-
mjy stand idle spectators of that deluge,
J which, if it be suffered to roll on with*
ut opposition, thmr own halcyon terri*
Dries must at last be swallowed up.
The last assertion which I shall extract
tmi this formidable pamphlet, is more
■orthy of attention than the former, but
erfaaps may be suspected to border more
early upon treaiBon : I i^all however ven-
ire to quote, and, what is still more dan-
srous, to defend it.
It is proposed that, instead of sqnander-
ig in this time of danger the expences of
tie public upon troops of whicn it is at
est doubtful, whether they will be of any
w to the queen of Hungary, whether
tiev can legally engage against the king,
Dd whether they imdd l^ of any great
le, though they were set free from any
ther restraints than regard to their own
ifety; instead of amusing our ally with
B enmty show of assistance, of mocking
er calamities with unefficacious friendship,
ad of exposing ourselves to the ridicule
r oar enenfes, by idle armaments with*
at hostility, by armies only to be review-
d, and fleets only to be victualled, we
bold remit th^ sunns' required for the
ajment of the^Htoovenansto the ^ueen
f Hungary, bv wbotn we knew that it will
ei^iphed to tne great purposes for which
arlmment grantd it, tneestabliriiment of
16 libeities of Europe, and the repression
fthe House of Bourbon.
This proposal, however contrary to the
rinion f^the ministers, I take the liberty
(recommending to theconsideration of the
lease, as, in my ojnnon, the most effectual
iethod of nreservmg the remains of the
leatness or Uie 'House of Austria. It is
^known, that the^ troops are hired at a
ite which Uiey never expected before, that
!vy-money is ptdd for forces levied befbre
heeommenoementof Ihe bargain, thatthey
[VOL. XII.]
are paid for acting a long time bdbve (bey
began to march, and thttt, since they ap<>
peared to consider themselves as engaged
m the quarrel, their march has bemi their
whole performance, a' march not against
the enemy, but from him; a maroh in
which there was nothing tb fear, nor any
thing to encounter ; and therefore I think
it cannot be denied, that the pfbbh'c trea^
sure might have been better employed.
The same sum remitted to the queen of
Hungary, will enable her to hire a much
greater number of troops out of her own
dominions, troops of whose courage she
can have no doubt, and whose fidelity will
be strengthened by common interest and
natural affection; troops that will fight
like men, defending their wives and theii^
children, and who will therefore bear fa*
tigue with patience, and &ce danger with
resolution, who will opp^e the French
as their natural enemies, and think death
more eligible than defeat.
Thus shall we assert the rights of man*
kind, and support the faith of treaties, op«
pose the oppressors of the world, and re-
store our ancient allies to their former
greatness, without exhausting our own
country; for it is not impossible, that by
the proper use of this sutn, the queen may
obtain such advantages in one campaign^
as may indihe the French to desert th6
king, and content themselves with the
peaceable {)06se8sion of their own territo«
ries ; for it is to be remembered, that they
are now fighting only for a remote interest;
and that they will not hasard much; m
firm resistance wHl easily incline thetti*to
wait for some more fkvourabie opportunitjr,
and there wUI be then leisure tor forming
our measures in such a manner, that ano«
ther opportunity may never be offered
tnem.
But of the presettt scheme, what efi^
can be expected ^t ignominy and shame,-
disgrace risroad; and'beg^ry atliOftfef
To this expence what Ihmts can be'set^
When is there to be an end of paying"
troops who are not to march ap^ainst our
enethies? As they will at all times be of
equal use, there will be at all times the,
same reason for employing them, nor cast
there ever be imaged less^ need ef idle
troops, than* in a tune of war'.
I am therefore afiraid, that in a short*
dme the Hanoverians may cOknider Great
Britahi as a tributary province, upon
which they have a right to impote the
mamtenance of 16,000 men, who are to
be employed only for the deifbnce of ^their
[3X]
104S3
16 eSORGE U.
DOaiein the Cammptum iJdtig
[lOM
own Qounttvy though supported at die ex-
pence of thiB. I am afraid that we shall
be taught to imagine, that the appearance
of the Hanoverians is necessary in our own
country, perhu>s to check the insolence
of the sons of freedom, who without fear
* bonier' upon treason. I am afraid, that
his miyesty or lus successor may be ad-
vised by sycc^ants and slaves to trust
the guard of his person to the trusty Hano-
verians, and advised to ^ce no confidence
in the natives of Great nritain.
For my j)art, I think it a very wise pre-
cept by which we are directed to obviate
evils in the beghining; and therefore since,
in my opinion, the influence of Hanover
must be destructive to the royal family,
and detrimental to those kmgdoms, I shall
endeavour to obviate it bv voting against
any provision for these useless mercenaries,
and declaring that I shall more willingly
grant the public money to any troops than
tnose of Hanover*
Lord Perceval :^
Sir; I look upon the question now
under your consideration, to varv very
little iii redity from that which was debated
here the first day of this session. The
principal point in the debate of that day
was the same with that which is more re-
gularly the debate of this, whether the
Hanoverian forces diould be taken into
British pay ?
^ Sir, I should then have offered my sen-
timents upon this question, if so many
Other gentlemen had not delivered my
•ense in so mu(^ better manner thap I
thought myself able to do, that it would
have appeared a ^reat presumption in me,
and would have given tne House an unne-
oessary trouble. Tibe same reason had in-
duced me to have been silent also upon
this occasion, — ^if the temper of the times,
the little indulgence shewn by gentlemen
to one another, when they happen to differ
in political opinions, and the popular cir-
cumstance in which I stand, did not in
some sort oblige me to protect the vote I
then gave, ana that which I now intend to
give,l>y the reasons that induce me to
give iL
^ Sir, there are three principal considera-
tions in this question ; first, whether we
are to assist the House of Austria, and
balance of power at all. Ay or No ? Then
^ Afterwards Earl of E^ont, and Author
^ the famous political pamphlet, «< Faction
whether we oo^t to do it widi a« wholo
force i And lastly, whether the Hanoverian
troops should be made a part of that fiirce?
A!s to the first considemtioiiy a new
doctrine has been taught and inci^caled
for some months past, that it is c^ no im-
portance to this nation what mmy happen
on the continent; that this coontry bong
an island intrenched within its own natu-
ral boundaries, it may stand secure and
unconcerned in all the storms of the rest
of the world. This doctrine, incoosiatent
as it is with all sense and reason^ ooDtraiy
as it is to the universal principles of policy
by which this nation hath baen govemcs^
from the conquest to this hour, ia yet
openly professed and avowed by many
without these walls ; and though no maa
has yet ventured to own this opinion pub-
licly and directly in this House, yet some
{^ntlemen even here, in efect, maintain
It, when they argue, that in no case thk
nation ought to assist to support the ba-
lance of power without the concurrence
of the Dutch. This tends ineritidbly to
produce the same fittal effisct ; it rednoes
this country to depend upon Holland, to
be a provmce to HoQand; and France
would then have no more to do to become
mistress of all Europe, than to gain over
one single town of the united provinces,
or to corrupt a few members of tbe states;
it is therefore a doctrine of the peatest
danger. The only solid nuuum is, that
whoever becomes master <^ the continent,
must in .the end obtain .the doBQinion of
the sea. To confirm this, I may venture
to cite an old example, nor can i be ac-
cused of pedantry in doing of it, aince it
is an instance drawn firom the last uni-
versal monarchy to which the world sub-
mitted. The Romans had no scMiner di-
vided, broken, and subdued those powers
upon the continent of Europe, who had
given a diversion in the great attempt they
ad long intended, than they attacked die
Carthaginians, a maritime power, potent
in arms, immensdy opulent, posKssed of
the trade of the whole world, and unrivai-
led mistress of the sea. Yet these peofd^,
who enjoyed no wealth, pursued no com-
merce, and at the commencement of their
quarrel were not masters of a singfe ship,
at length prevailed against this enemy
upon their proper element, beat and de-
stroyed their fleets, invaded their domi-
nions, and subdued their empire. From
whence, Sir, I must condude that we
cannot wholly rely upon our situation, or
depend solely on our naval power; mi I
1045]
Hmnonman Trwupt into BrkiA Pag.
A, D. 174f.
[IMS
may venture to reason upon, this axiom,
that this nation must contribute to support
the House of Austria, and the balance of
power in soooe degree.
The next question that occurs is, in
what degree we ou^ht to do it ? And whe-
ther we should do it with our whole force ?
Taking, therefore, our footing here upon
this axiom, that we must contribute to it
in Bome degree, and taking farther to our
aid the reasoning of those gentlemen who
think it a work of such extreme danger
and ahnost desperate, the natural and
evident conclusion can be onl^ this, that
if we do it, so we must do it, with the
utmost vigour, and with our whole force.
We come now to consider, whether the
Hanoverian troops should be' made part
of that force ? There are several consi-
derations previous to. the decision of this
question. First, whether they are as cheap
as anv other forces we can hire? Then
whether they are as ^ood ? Next whether
tiiey areas properly situated ? And whether
they are as much to be depended upon ?
If as to every one of these particulan the
answer must be made in the affirmative,
I think it witt go very far to determine the
question now before you.
As to the first, that they are as cheap,
nay, upon the whole much cheaper, the
estimates now upon your table, notwith-
standing any cavil, do sufficienUy demon-
strate.
That they are as good, what man can
doubt, who knows uie character of the
Geraian nation ? What man can doubt,
who knows the attention of his majesty
to military discipline? Those gentlemen
can least pretend to doubt it, who some-
times do not spare reflections upon that
attention which they insinuate to be too
great
That these troops are not properljr si-
tuated, will be hardly asserted at this time,
when they are actually now in Flanders,
and now acting in conjunction with our
troops. Let any man consider the map
of Europe, let him observe the seat of
the war, and- he must evidendv see,
that whether their service may be re-
quired m Flanders, whether upon the
Khine, or in the heart of Germany,^ in
c^ery one of these cases, the Hanove-
rian forces are as properly circumstanced
and situated as any troops in Europe.
It remains in the last place to examine
whether any other troops can be better
depended upon? And sure nothing can
^ mora obviooi than that we may rely
with more security on these than any
other. They are subjects of the same
prince, and of a prince indulgent to all his
subjects, and never accused by those who
differ in other points from me; of being
partial against the interest of his (rerman
dominions. Unless, therefore, we arraign
the first principle upon which* a free go*
vemment can be supported, and' without
which every exercise of arbitrary power
would be warranted, we must alfew that
such a people will be faithful to such a
prince ; will defend him with a strict fide-
lity, and support his quarrel with the
utmost zeal ; with a zeal which can never
be expected from the mercenary troops of
any other foreign power.
This naturally leads us to enquire what
other troops we can depend upon ; the
answer to this enquiry is short and po-
sitive; that as aflhirs now |tand abroad,
we can depend upon none but these ; let
us carry tnis consideration with us in a
survey of all Europe. Shall we take into
our nay 16,000 of the Dutch ? Would this
be the means of brinffine Holland into
alliance with us ? Would Uiey act at their
own expence, would they exert their own
proper force ? Would they pay their own
troops in aid of the common cause, when
they fohnd this nation ready to do it for
them ? They would act like madmen if
they did. Snail we hire Danes ? Is there
a gentleman in this House, who b not
convinced that this power has been warp-
ed, for some time past, towards the interest
of France? When we hired these troops
in the last instance, did they not deceive
us ? Did they not even refuse to march ?
Nay fiirther, are they not in all appearance
now upon the point of being employed in
a quarrel of their own? A quarrel in
which they will have need of all their
force. Shall we then hire Saxons ? An
hon. gendeman seemed to think that there
may be some possibilij^ of this, and per*
haps there may hereafter, when the king
of Prussia's views are known and the part
he shall resolve to act ; but Saxony is
certainly now too much exposed to, and
cannot fail to be alarmed at, his growing
power, at the great augmentation of his
armies, and the secret and vast designs
which he seems to meditate. This mea-
sure, therefore, is not practicable in the
present conjuncture ; that electorate can-
not hazard its own security in these pre-
carious circumstances, by lending out so
great a body of its troops. Would gen-
demen advise the hire of Pruasioa troops
' 4
1M7]
16 OSOBiGB IL
JJehHif in i/t^ Cc^nfUtt^t tm tnihtg
[lOU
io serve ii» in this conjimcture^ They
who do advise it must forget stnmgely the
part 80 lately acted by Uiat princei and
he variety of his conduct with regard to
yi^ di&rent allies within the npace of the
two last year^ I shall guard myself in
kny expressions, and maintain a.proper re*
jipect in discoursing of so great a charac-
ter; butlniustaay thus much, that the
ministry would act withsreat imprudence,
to put Uie safety of the British troops, and
fo risk the fate of this army, upon the
event of such a measure. 1 need not say
xuore ; for it is not vet (uroved to us, that
this prince would (I wish there was no
reason to believe he would not) lend us
this body of his men, though we should
be disposed to take them into pav. The
Swiss cantons, thereforie, now alone re-
main ; and indeed from them we probably
might procure a greater number ; but I
leave it to the judgment of any man of
sense and candour, whether any minister
of this nation could warrant the employ-
ment of 16,000 Swiss in this service?
)For when we reflect upon the situation
of these provinces, imd compare it with
tliat of our British troops who are now ih
Slanders, it is visible tnat they must pass
i^OO miles upon the borders ot the Rhme,
flanked by the strong places of France,
dufing their whole march, exposed to the
garrisons and armies upon that frontier,
by whom it can never oe supposed that
they would be sufiered to pass unmolested,
when France must so well know the in-
tention of their march to be for no other
end, but to make a conjunction with other
troops in the British pay, in order after-
>varas to invade, or at least to interrupt
the views of that kingdom with their unit-
jed force.
These reasons. Sir, prove invincibly to
me, that if we are to assist the House of
]A.ustria by an army, we must of pru-
dence, nay of necessity, in part, com-
pose that army of the Hanoverian troops.
But yet there is another state of ttus
question ; an alternative of which some
gentlemen seem very fond; whether it'
would not be better to assist the queen of
Hungary with money only ?
, This opinion at first sight is extremely
plausible ; if the queen of Hungarj^ has
been able to do so much witli ^n aid of
BQOfiOOL what might she not be able to
do with a million more? Sir, a million
more would by.no means answer in the
f*™® Proportion. When a sum is given
bcr which with the best oeconomy can
suffice bavely to put her tioops in natioii,
when the enemy is at her vecy gate8,ker
all at an immediate ^Udu, tbm en be
no room for a misapplication of it : bat a
sum so inuuense as tnat of a miUien snd a
half, would daazle the eyes of a coivtso
litde used to see such sums, and assn boo.
gentleman long versed in foreign aSm
(Mr. H. Walpole), and well acqusiDted
with these matters, told youinafonoer
debate, would be much <u it squandered
among the Austrian ministers and favoa*
rites. I make no scniple to add to diie,
that some amall part might iiili to the sbsK
of mintsters elsewhere. But there is soo-
Uier dai^ger which gentkmen who cebteod
for this measure do not oonsider. Can
they, who profie^ a distrust of all nuoii-
ters, and particularly those who are oar
employed at home; they who have ever
arf^ed a^jtunat all votes of credit upon
this princi^e, that it affinrds an eppoita-
nity to ministers of defrauding the ser?ice,
and of putting hurge sums into the pune
of the crown, or into their private poclcti I
Can they now argue Ant this mesnre,
which IuMty be bold to say, wPuUbeit
effisct the most enormous vofio fa( credit
that was ever givien in the world t Gestle-
men insinuate, that the taking the Haso-
verian forces into British pay, is a crimiDal
complaisance, calculated only to'coofina
an in&nt and a tottermg admiDistntips.
But how much greater means for lud) a
purpose would an alternative like this af-
ford ? Suppose a minister u^fim io ik
new acquired power, to ingratiate binaelf
with his prince, should prqpos^ a scfaeni
to replenish the coffers of an evhsntsd
civil Ust squandered in such vile paipose^
that no man could have the haidinett la
come to parliament, or dare to hope a
supply for it by any r^ular applicstioo to
this House i What method cimld be de-
vised by such a minister himself to do tba
job more efiectually than this^ for wfai
can no doubt that (guard it how ywi wifl)
the queen of Hupgarv might he induce^
in the condition in which she now staodit
to accept a million, and to give a recdpt
in full for the whole sum > How could joi
prevent an understanding of this kind b^
tween two oourts ; And how evjt ^^^
fore, might it be to sink 500,000/* out of
so vast a grant ? Sir, I will suspect ds
minister ; but I will trust none ia this de-
gree; and I wonder other gentkneodo
not suspect, if I do not. From henoe
therefore, I consider tliis as a prepOBitHW
both fallacioua and wmf^i lbs tkous^
M9]
Hmmmaa J^foafkido BfUdi Pay. A. IX ITtt.
[IdM
\ be • fiiett that tke mme man of wo*
ly might DiAintab ki Atulria dmhla
|g ouidlxer of troops ; yet, if no more
ksR hidf that moa^ ehould be applied
II 1 have shewn great leason to be-
ieve that it would not) to the aaes of
he wvt it is -evidentt that jou would de-
rive jourselves, and would Jmvo but an
fpal number of raw, itregiidar, undisei-
Sued, and much worse troops for k*
Bq(i Sir, there is yet a stronger argo-
NDt. against Ihe supply in mooe^ omy.
UiSt fure our views in aupporting the
pieeaof Hungary? Our views are gencnd
nd particular.; general, to save the House
f Austria, and to preserve a bakace of
l«er : partacular, to nrevent the French
MB) mtfing aay farmer aequisitions en
Ui side of Banders. The first might
mAly be answered in a good degree,by
Iriog that princeas an equivalent in nu»-
1^; hut the second cannot be securely
nrided against, mdthout an army on thu
ids of Europe in the British jpay. 6ir» is
(SSt natural for every one ot us to f uard
nr vital parts, rather than mar more re«
ists members ? Would not the queen of
iingsfy (stimulate and condiaieawidi her
9 yao please ) ^ly the greatest part of
lime subsidies in defence of her domi**
ism in the heart of Gennany ? Mi^ht it
at ^sn itaduee her to enlarge her views,
sd to think of conquests, and equivalents
IT what she has already lost, which il
lil^t he vain and ruinous for us to sop-
mther in? Would die not leave Flan-
to ta shift for itself, or still to be token
me of by Great Britain and Ihe Duteh f
asoeh a case, if Fiance should find it no
mga pessHdeio make aay impression on
sr territories, on the German side, what
mat we expect to be the consequence f 1
luik it very visible she would on a sudden
jsit her expensive and destructive projects
a that quarter, and there only carry on
defensive war, while she fell with the
;n»ter part of her force at once u^ the
aw Countries, whicb would by this mea-
Die be wholly unprovided; and she might
here acquire in one campaign, before any
eisibilitv of making head acainst her,
vUch the Dutch would hardly attempt,
od could certainly not alone be able to
6ct) ay that she has been endeavouring
i>r the hst century to obtain, and what no
hioa of powers coiM be ever capable of
egaming from her. All this will be eibc-
saiiy prevented by an army paid by us on
Im side of Europe ; atf army, ready to
MmhtathabmPddls of bar cMotiy, and
to interaept Imr auccBoss and suppBes 4br
the Otinmin war ; an army, ready to pro-
tect the petty states, wfaoae interest waA
indioation it appanently must be to de*
dare for us, and to join dieir ibrces widi
us, when they no longer iear the fK>wer
of France ; an amy, which may possibly
give courage and spirit to greater powers^
who may stiil doubt, without these vigo^
reus measunes Rafter what they have
fbrmeiiy experienced), whether diey
could even yet dqpend upon us ; an army^
(if the posture of affiurs should nidce it
necessary ) able to cause a powerful diver*
sion to the French foroea, by an attack
upon Lorrain and Champagne, and stffl
within distance to vetum upon its steps m
time, to prevent the French ftom carry*
ing any point of consequenoe an ffandefa,
should they then attempt it
One argument more 1 beg leave to men*
tion, and it is of great weight. Admit
that the sums raised dpon Ihe subjed
might be greater in the one case* than tha
otl^, the sums remitted out of the king-
dom would be infinitely less. Wliatever
is remitted to the queen of Hungary, la
buried in the remotest parts of Gmnany,
and can never letdm to us ; whereas in a
war caltied on by troops in our own pay
on this side, by much the greater part et*
Uie expence returns to us again in part by
the pay of officers, by the supply of pro-
visions and necessaries in a country ex*
hausted by arraieB,ammunitioA, ordnance,
hotaes, clothing, accoutrements, and a
multitude of omer articles, which 1 need
not enumerate, because experience, whidi
is the soundest reasoner, fully proved it im
the example of the last war, at the con*
dosion at wldeb, notwithstanding the
prodigious smsas expended in it, this na-
tion felt no sensifale eflbct from a dimiau*
tion of itt current specie.
Sir, I was prepared to have spoken
much more largely to this subject, mit my
discourse has already been drawn to a
greater length than I Hnagined, in treating
tmon the argument thus far. I 'shall,
therefore, afvoid troublmg vou any farther
upon it at this time ; I shafi only observe,
that in my humble opinion, it is suffidently
proved, nrst, that we must assist the House
of Austria, and that we must do it vrith
aU our force ; next, that we cannot do H
with money only, but hi part with a land
army, and that this land army cannot be
conveniently (I may say possibly } com*
posed at this time, without the Hanove-
rian &oeps. This ^[uestion therefore can.
1051]
16 QEOKGB IL
IMaU in tke Commom mt laiwy
[1Q»
t
I thibk, be no longer debated, but upon
the foot of popular piejudioetuid UMinoa*
lions of an. improper connection of Hano-
verian and Brituh interests ; but as I could
not enter into this subject without concern
and indignation^ and as it is a veiy deli-
cate point for me in particular to debate
upon, I shall leave this part of the ques-
tion to other gentlemen, vho can engage
in it both widi less inconvenience, and
with more ability, than it is poasiUe for
me to do.
Mr. George GrenvUk :
Sir; though I am fiir from thmking
myself able to produce, without study or
premeditation, a complete answer to the
elaborate and artful harangue which you
have now heard, yet as I cannot be con-
▼inced of the reasonableness of the mea-
sures which have been defended with so
much subUlity, I shall at least endeavour
Co show, that my disapprobation is not
merely the effect of obstinacy, and that I
have at least considered the proposak of
the ministry, before I have ventuied to
condemn Uiem.
Whether we ought to think ourselves
indispensably obliged to maintain, at all
events^ the balance of power on the con*
tinent, to maintain it without allies, to
maintain it against a combination of almost
all Eun^, 1 shall not now enquire ; I will
now suppose it for once our duty to strug-
gle witn impossibility, and not only to
support the House of Austria when it is
attaeked, but to raise it when it is fallen;
fidlen by our own negligence, and oppress^
ed with the weight of ul the surrounding
powers; and uiall therefore at present
only enquire, by what means we may af-
ford that assistance with most benefit to
our allies, and least danger to ourselves.
With regard to our afly, that assistance
will be iqpperently most advantageous to
her, by which her strength wOl be most
Increased, and therefore it may perhaps be
more useful to her to find her money than
troops, but if we must supply her with
troops, I doubt not but it will readily ap-
pear, that we may easily find troops which
may be of more use and less expence than
those of Hanover.
It has been observed, with regard to the
eonvenient situation of those troops, that
it cannot now be denied, Rioce they are
acting in Flanders in conjunction with the
British forces. This is an assertion to
^j**^» though it was uttered with an air
of victorious confidence, tho\igh it was
produced as an insuperable argmnenk, bj
which all those who intended oppo^ioB
were to be reduced to silence anddapiir,
many objections may be made^ vbidi it
will requune another naEBDgue equsily da-
borate to remove.
That the troops of Hanover are dov
acting in conjunction with the British, I
know not how any man can affirm, unless
he has received intdligence by some airy
messengers, or has some aympathctic com-
munication with them not indnlged to the
rest of mankind. None oftheaccounti
which have been brouglit hither of theaf*
fiiirs of the continent IwyeyetHifonDed ot
of any action, or tendeaCT to action; the
Hanoverians have indeed been revieired in
conjunction with our forces, but hsre
hitherto not acted; nor have 'the annies
yet cemented the alliance by any 0x0000
danger, or diown yet that they are fiieodi
otherwise than by sleening and esfiof to-
gether, by eating at tne eipenoe of the
same nation.
Nor am I at present indiaed to giut,
that either army is situated iriiere it mij
he ofmost use ta the queen of HoDgsiT;
for they now loiter in a country iHacfa no
enemy threatens^ and in. which noduog
therefore can he feared ; a country Terr
remote firom the seat of war, and whico
will probably be last attacked. If the &»•
sistanoe of tne queen of Hungary hsdbees
designed, Uiere appears no reason wfajthe
Hanoverians should have maidied thither,
or why this important conjunction should
have beetk formed, since, they might, in
much less time, and with less expeoce,
have jomed the Austrians, and perhaps
have enabled them to defeat the designs
of the French, and cut off the retreat of
the army which was sent to the relief o^
Prague. But this march, though it would
have been less tedious, would hsfe been
more danf;erous, and would not have been
very consistent with the designs of thoie
who are more desirous of receiyiD| wsga
than of deserving ^em ; nor is it likely
that those who required levy*monej tor
troops already levied, and who demanded,
that they should be paid a long time before
they began to marcn^ would huny them
to action, or endeavour to put a period
to so gainful a tradp as that of niring
troojps which are not to be exposed.
Tnis conduct, however visibly sbsard,
I am very far from imputinff either to
cowardice or ignorance ; for there is rea*
s<m to suspect that they mardied into
flanders ^olf becau8e4hqr couUnoitp-
MS]
HantJiverian Troops inh BrUish Pay. A. D. 1742. ' [1054
ear in any other place as the aUiea of the
ueen of Huoffar^y without exposing dieir
Dvereign to the imperiid interaict.
It is therefore not only certain^ that
base troops, these boasted and important
roops, have not yet been of any use ; but
probable that no use is intended for tli^m,
nd that the sole view of those who have
Dtroduced them into our service, is to
ay their court by enriching Hanover with
be spoils of Great Britain.
That this is in reality their intention,
ppears from the estimates to which an
ppeal has been so confidently made, but
rhich, if they are compared with a con«
ract made for the troops of the same na*
ton in the last war, will show how much
beir price has risen since their sovereign
m exalted to this throne ; though I can-
ot find any proof, that their reputation
as increasecl, nor can discover from
beir actions in Flanders any reason to
elleve^ that their services will be greater.
It is now to little purpose to enquire,
rhether there are any other troops Uiat
ould have been more properly employed,
ince it is certain, that, whatever may be
be general character, or the late conduct
f other nations, it is the interest of Great
Mtain to employ rather any troops than
hese, as any evu is rather to be chosen
han animosities between our sovereign
pd our fellow*6ubject8 ; and such animo-
ities must inevitably arise from this de*
estable preference of the jtroops of Ha-
over.
The question was carried by 67 ; the
kyes being 260; the Noes 193.
i List or the Members who voted
FOR AND AGAINST THE HaNOV^-
RiAN Troops being taken into
British Pay.
For the Hanoverians,
Ibercromliy, James Bertie, lord Vere
icoart. Pierce
ircher, Thomas
iricott, John
Irandel, bon. Richard
isbe, Edward
Ucon, Edward
Uker, Hercules
^Utmore, lord
kyntun, Edward
ktburet, bon. Henry
Seanclerc, lord Harry
fteauclerc, lord Vere
Setke, ool. George
3eDiiet, Philip
MnckjhNd George
Bladen, Martin
BocklandjCoLAIaorice
Boone, Daniel
Bootle, Thomas
Bowles, WiHiam
Bradshaiff^, sir Roger
Brand, Thomas
BrasBcy, Nathaniel
Brereton, Thomas
Bristow, John
Brodie, Alexander
Brown, sir Robert
Brdce Hope, sir John
Brudenell, bon^ James
Barrardp Harry
Borrel, Peter
Butler, Jobn
Calthorpe, Henry
Campbell, John
Campbell, bon. Alex.
Hume
Cary, Walter ,
Carnegie, sir James
Carpenter, tord
Carter, William
Cavendish, adm. Phil.
Charlton, Job
Cholmondeley, col. J.
Churchill, major gee.
Churchill, Charles
Clayton^ sir William
-Clayton, Kendrick
Cleveland, John
Clive, Edward
Coke, Edward
Compton, George
Conwav, Henry
Cope, M onoux
Corbet, sir William
Corbet, Thomas
Comwallis, John
Cotes, Charies
Craigie, Robert
Crowle, George
Dan vers, Joseph
Darcy, sir Conyers
Doneraile, hMrd vise.
Douglas, James
Downioi^, Jacob
Dmiy, sir Thomas
Drummond, John
Dnndass, George
Dnncannon, lord
Dopplin, lord
Earle, Giles
Earle, W. Rawlinson
Elliot, Richard
Elliot, col. William
Ellis, Wellbore
Evans, bon. George
Evans, capt. Richard
Evelyn, John
Eversfield, Charles
Fane, Francis
Fermaqagh, lord. vise.
Finch, jion. Edward
Finch, bon. William
Finch, bon. Jobn
Finch, hon. Henry
Fitzroy, Charles
Fonnereau, Thomas
Forrester, Brook
Fortrose, lord
Fox, Henry
Frankland, Frederick
Frederick, Charles
French, Jeflery
Gage, sir William
Galway, lord viseonnt
Garth, John
Gasfary, Francis
Gibson, Thomas
Gilmonr, nr Charles
Gildart, Richanl
Glenorchy, lord viaofc
Godolphin, Francis
Gougb, cant Henry
Grant, Lodovick
Grant, sir James
Gregory, Georee
Gulston, Joseph >
GybboOy Philips
Hamilton, lord Arch.
Hamilton, Charles
Hampden, John
Hanbury, Capel
Harbord, William
Harris, John
Harrison, George
Hartington,manquis of
Hay, lord Charles
Hay, William
Hay ward, Thomas
Heathcote, Samuel
Henley, Henry Holt
Herbert, hon. Nicholas
Herbert, Heo. Arthur
Herbert, bon. Robert
Herbert, col. Wiltiam
Hervey, hon. Thomas
Hobby, sir Thomas
HoUnes, Henry
Hooper, Edward
Howarth, sir Hum.
Hnngerford, Walter
Hunter, Thomas Orby
Jeffreys, Jobn
Jenyns, Soame
Incbiqnio, earl of
Ingram, eol. Cbaiies
Joniffc,Jobu
Irby, sir William
Keene, Benjamin
Kent, Samuel
Kinaston, William
Knight, Robert
LanSs Matthew
Laroche, John
Leatbes, Carteret
Lee, Geoige, L. L. !>• '
Legge, hon. Henry
Lewis, Thomas
Liddel, sir Henry
Limerick, lord
Loek, William
Lsckyer, Charles
Manners, h>rd William
Martin, James
Blartin, Jobn
Manle, William
Mellisb, WilKam
Metcalfe, Lasodles
Middlesex, earl of
Mill, sir Richard
Missing, Thomas
Mitcfadf, William
Monson, Charies
Montague, Chariea
Mordaunt, Jobn
195S]
16 QBOROEIL
Daiotr ft lla GmmhMm OBioiMV
[1Q56
BfoiyiOy Thomw-
Mostyot Jobo
Murrty, lord John
Murray ) Jolm
Mamy,WiiliMn
Ifurray, Akmidflr
MuMenden, Hill
Neal, Robert
Newnham, Thoma*
Nesbit, Albert
Noel, William
Norrit, sir Jobn
Norton, ThomM
Onslovr, Arthur
Onslow, ]>enzil
Ooslow, Richard
Ord, Robert
Orme, Garton
OsbaldcstoD, William
Owen, Wtlliam
OzeadeD, sir Geoiige
Paee, John
PafnierstoD, lord Tise.
IHiulett, boD. Vere
Paulctt, Charles.
Panlett, lord Harry
Paulett, C, Armand
Frihan, boD. Heary
Pelbam, James
PeuDtD^en, sir Jee*
PentOD, Henry
Peroefal, Isrd •
Petersham, lord
PbiKpsoo, Jobo
PilswortbfCbariee
Pitt,Geoiv*MortSB
Plumer, Vhehard
Plasstwe,' Jobo
Pollen, John
Read, sir Thomas.
Rider,^ sir Dudley
Rolle, Henry
Rodfle, Bdward
Rusbout, sir John .
Sack?i»t,lordJohft^
Sackville, lerd Qtotgt
Sandys, Samuel
BirClair, brig. Jamav^
Scot, David
Scrope, hon. John
Selwyn, John
Selwyn, Jobojun.
Shepherd, Samoet
Smelt, William
Speke, George
Stert, Arthur
Steele, William
Stone, Andrew
Strange^ sir John
Sundon, lord
Talbot, hon. John
Thomas, sir Edmund
Townshend, Joseph
Townsbend, h. Roger
Townshend, hon. T.
Treror, Jobn Morley
Tuffnell, Samuel
Turner, sir Jobn
Vane, hon. Henry
Vere, Thomas
Wade, general G^orgt
Wager, sir Charles
Walker, Thomas
Walpole, Horatio
Walpole, Edward
Walpole, Horatio, jm.
Wardour, WilKara
Watson, Thomas
Wast,Jaam
White, John
Whitmora, Thonms
Whitmore, William
Wilson, Daniel
Williams, sir Nicfa<^
Williams, C. Hanbury
Wilmer, WJIKam
Wilkinson, Andrew
Winnington, Tiioroas
W7odlMim,sir Charles
Wynn, sir Thomas
WyBn,Jobn<
Yonge, sir William
Yorre, hon. Philip
York, John
Young, Hiteb
AbienU
Afcber, Benf y
Arsoott, Arthur
Ashe, Jos. \^ndham[.
BMworth, Thomas
BodriUe, WilKam
Bond, John sen.
Boscaweoyoapt. Edw»
Bridges, Oeerge
Brottghton, sir Brian
Campbell, brig. Jofa«'
Chute, Anthony
Colebroke, Robert
Conolly, WilKam
CoplestooyThoMsas
Corbett, sir Richard'
Conwallis,8teyheB
Cottony sir Robert
Salusbnry
Cross, sir John
Doominique, Charles
Doogla8,.col. Robert
Downing, sir George
Duncomb) Anthony
Euston, earl of
Franklaod,sirTlio.
Glanntie, William
Grenby, marquis of
Haddock, Nicholas
Harris, Jobn
Hed worth, John .
Howard, coL Charles
Jewkesi John-
Lamhtan, Beniy
Maule, Jobn
M idd leton, sir William
Mordaunt, col. James
Ogletborp, ctol. James
Pelbam, Thomas juo.
Pieree, Henry
Revel, Thomas
Stoper, William
Againsi ike
Abdy, sir Robert
Aislabie, William
ABtley, sir Jobn
Bagot, sir Walter
Baoce, John
Banks, William
Bankee, Henry
Barringfton, lord
Bamngten, sir John
Batburst, Benjamin
Beaoclerc, lord Sidney
Berkeley, Norhonne
Berkeley, George
Best, Thomas
Bhigrave, Jobn
Bowes, Georee
Bouverte, sir Jacob *
Bramston, Thomas
Browne, J^n
Buck, Jobn
Bulkley, lord viseount*
Buchanan, Neil
BuUer, James
Bmvoyne, sir Roger
Bottor, Dr. Edward
Bary, Thomas
Calvert, WIHtam
Carew, sir William
Carew, Thomas
Cartwright, Thoma*
Cave, sir Tbounas
Chapman, sir John
Cbemocke, sir Boteler
Chester, sir John
Chetwynd, lord vise.
Cbetwynd, William
Cholmondeley, Chas.
Cooke, George
Cornewal!, Velters
Cotton, sir John Hmd
Cotton, Jobn
Courteoey, Henry
Courteney,8irWiriiain'
Crawford, Bitrick
Crawley I John
Curzon, sir Nathaniel
Dalrymple, sir Hew
Damer, Jos^b
Dashwooll, sir James
Dashwood, sir Francis
Da wkins, James •
Delme, Peter
Deerhurat, lord
Deering, sir Edward
Digby, hon. Edward
Dodoingif Bi'Gm^ •
Skewait, adm. Junes
'Stewart, oolJohn
Stewart, captWiltiam
SiricklaDd, WitlbiB
TbompsoD, Wiltiain
Turner, Cbolmley
Wallop, hon. Jofaa
Wright, Jobn
Hanoverimu.
Douglas, Willtani
Edwm, Cbarkf
Fane, hon. Charles
Fazakerley, NicIk^
Fellows, Coobton
Penwick, Robot
Penwick, Nicbohs
Firabraoe, sirCordct
Foley, Tbomas, seo.
Foley , Thomas, jaa.
Forws, sir Arthur
Fortescoe,bQD.Tbeop.
Fox, €reoive
Furaese, Henry
Gibbon, EdiranI
Glynne, sir Jobs
Oore, Charles
Gnre,ThonMS
Oower, hen. Wilte
LevesDD
Gower , hen. Baptist
Leveson
Granard, earl of
Graham, lord Gcorgi
Gray, Charles
GrenTille, James
Grenvilte, Gcoi^
GrenviUe, Bacbtrd
Grosveoor, sir Rfkat
Groves, WiOiam
Ouemney, Knd rise
Gundry, Natbaaid
Gwyo, Francis
Haiiey, Robert
Heatboote, George
Herbert, Philip
Harvey, Micbtd
Hill, Andrew
HiblMirough, M
Hoblyn, Robert
Holt, sir lifter
Hopton, Edward Cope
HouUon, Jacob
Hvlton, Jehn
Isnam, sir Bdmnid
Lambert, Daaiel
Lechmere, Edmiad
liddel, Rwbard
lister, Tbomss
Lyster , Richard
J>ng, sir Robert
Lowndes, Richard
Lowtber, sir James
Lumley^ hon. Jam«
Lytteltott, Oeorgt
JnjsDdiNimsM
0573
Hano/oerian Troapi into British Pay*
A. D. i74>3.
[1058
ftackeosie, Stewart
KI'Kjrey John
^lackwortb, Herbert
ifarshall, HeDry
VI asters, Thomas
llitcbell, John
Iklontague, hon. Edw.
If ordaunt, sir Charles
tfoore, l^iMtam
Mu^rare, sir Philip
>fewdigfate, sir Roger
^fewland, Georg^e
Newton, sir Michael
Noel, hon. James
Nortbcote, sir Henry
Nugent, Robert
Ongley, Samael
Ord, John
Oswald, ^amea
Owen, John
Packer, WinGhcomb
Howard
Pkrker, Armstead
PouWt, WiUiam
Periam, John
Pbitips, John
Pitt, George
Pitt, William
Pitt, John
Pieydell,£dro.Mnrton
Popham, JBdward
Portman,Wm. Henry
Pdweli, Thomas
Powney, Peniston
Pratt, John
Proby, John
Prowse, Thomas
Pryse, Thomas
Pytts, Edmond
iluarendon, lord vise.
Ramsden, sir John
Rashleigb, Jonathfui
Raymond, Jones
Rowney,- Thomas
Rosb, John
Saville, Samoel
St. Aubin, sir John
Selwin, Charles
ShJppen, William
Shirley, Seawallis
Shuti)e«vortb, James
Slingsby, sir Henry
Smith, JSdward
^mithson, sir Hugh
Somerset, lord Noel
Southwell, Edward
Speneer, hon, John
Slapylton^ sir Miles
Stuart, hon. John
Stewart, Archibald
Strang, lord
Strode, William
Svdenham, Humphry
lempest, John
Thorsby,JohDHar¥ey
Tacker, John
Tamer, sir Edward
Twisden, sir Roger «
yemoD, Oeo. Venables
Vyner, Robert
;Waner, Harry
Waller, Edmund
Walter, Peter, jun.
Warburton, Phil. Hen.
Watson, hon. Thomas
Webster, Whistler
Wentworth, Godfrey
Whichcote. Thomas
Wigley, James
Wilbraham, Handle
Williams, Richard
Williams, Robert
Wioford, Thomas
Wodehottse, Armine
Wriij^ht, George
Wynn, sir Watkin
Waiiams
A^s^int*
Andover, lord
Ashby, Thooias
Barry more, Jas. earl of
Barnard, sir John
Blacket, Waller
Bligh, hon. John
CaernarYon, marq. of
Chafin, George
Chester, Thomas
Cocks, James
Corobury, lord vise.
Crewe, John, jun.
Curzon, William
Da vers, sir Jermya
Denton, George
DougUs, sir John
Drax, Henry
Breskine, hon. James
Fenwick, John
Foiter, Tlioraas
Gage, lord viscount
[VOL. XII.]
Hamilton, sir James
Inwen, Thomas
LeFiuz, William
Lowther, sir Thomas
Mansell, hon. Bussy
Master, Le^h
Methuen, sir Paul
Montrath, earl of
Morrice, sir William
Newsam, James
Peachy, sir John
Pelham. Charles
Philips, sir Erasmni
Pitt, Thomas
Richards, George
Ross, hon. Charles
Seymour, sir Edwafd
Shuttleworth, Richard
St, John, Paulet
Stanhope, hon. John
Thratei Ralph
Trelawney, Cbarlet
Tyrwhitt, sir John
Vanghan, Willian
Vernon, admnralEdvr.
Warren, Borlace
Wortley, Edward
Tht Kin^s Speech of Thanh fit the
Supply.'] December 21. « His majesty
came to the House of Peers, and gave the
royal assent to the Land Tax Bill, and the
Malt Bill, and made the following Speech.
to both Houses :
** My lords and gentlemen ;
** I am Yciy glad of the occasion which
my coming hither at this time gives me^
of expressmg to you the great satisfaction
I take, in seeing so ^ood a progress aU
ready made in the business of this session.
** Gentlemen of the House of Conunona ;
** The readiness and dispatch, with
which you have thus early provided sd
considerable a part of the supplies for
the ensuing year, deserve my particular
thanks : and I make no doubt, biit th«
same zeal for the common cause, ih^U in*
duce you to enable me to concert proper
measures, and to enter into, or make good
such alliances and engagements with other
powers, as may be necessary for the sup*
port of the aueen of Hungary, and re-
storing the balance of power.
** My lords and gentlemen ;
<* I looK upon this beginning as a t^xt^
pledge of your steadiness, in pursuing the
true interest of Great Britam, whidk lit
and ever shall be, my only view."
Debate in thk Lords on takxk#
THE Hanoverian Troops iNxa Bri-
tish Pay.*] Feb. 1, 174a. The Order
of the day being read, for taking into con-
sideration the several estimates of the ex«-
Ssnoe of die forces in the pay of Great
ritain.
Earl Stanhope stood np, and spoke at
follows :t •
My lords ; I have always under«
stood, that the peculiar happiness of the
* From the Gentleman's Magaaine, for
June, 1743 : csmpiled by Dr. Johnson.
f fVioni the Seek^ Menwscr^*
Fehmary 1. Debate on the Hanover Troops.
Stanhope moved a few days before without
any concert, so far as appears, to take this mat-
ter into consideration, which was otherwise
not intended. Afterwards he applied to the
Chancellor, and lord Sandwich to lord Carteret
for deferring it, but that could not be obtained.
He spoke apre-composed speech which he held
t8Y3
1059] 16 GEORGE II. DebaU in the Lords on iaUng
British nation consists in this, that nothing
of importance can be undertaken by the
goveramenty . without the consent of the
people as represented by the other House,
and that of your lordships, whose large
possessions, and the merits either of your
in his band with mat trerobtings aad ac^ita-
tieiM, and hesitated frequently in the nii<&t of
great vehemence : but his matter was not oon-
temptible. He insisted that the House of Aastria
was incapable of bein^ raised, tliat other states
were indifferent about it, and we unable by reason
of our debts ; that our army of 88,000 men was
where it was not wanted, and S2,000 such as
could not act against ttie emperor. But were
the prospect better : 1. Why was not the par-
liament consulted, unless because their consent
was not so likely to be obtained as their acqui-
escence : 8. The levy money for these troops,
though, raised long before, was 140,000/. in-
tendMl for some other secret purpose. And
Ibis is not an article of course, for in 1703 we
took Hanover troops into our pay withoutrit,
I but the Dutch had paid it to them the year be-
ore, when they were first taken into the ser«
▼ice of the aUies.] 3. The country these
troops came from makes it probable that they
will frequently be taken, and affairs abroad
embroiled for the sake of lending them : what
would Polaud think of taking Saxons into pay ?
Why should not some regard be had to the
opinion of the'people, who will always judge
nght of the end Ibouj^h not of the means, as
well as to the inclinations of rulers who may
aim wrong in both ?
Modonfor " An Address to advise and beseech
the king, that in consideration of our expence
In foreign trooos, increased by the extraordi-
nary manner or waking the Eistimate, and not
eonducive to the end proposed, he will please
In compassion to his people so burtbeoed as
they are, to exonerate them of those Merce-
aanes which were taken last year mto pay
without consent of parliament."
Sandmich. This measure brings the crown
Into danirer from France, and sbiSces the affec-
tions of the people at home. No minister will
dare to say they have advised the king to at-
tack France without any allies. Our forces
then are either to secure us at home or sup-
|>ort the House of Austria. As to the first, we
have 63,000 national, and 89,000 auxiliary
troops; near as noany national as in queen
Anne's war. Of these, S3,000 remain in Great
Britain, besides 11,000 marines, which is three
times as many as theu. If you dread France,
why do you provoke her ? If she is exhausted,
why do you put yourself to so much expence
about her P As to the second, restoring the
House of Austria without even the elector of
Hanover to assist us, we cannot do it in any
degree, and we do nothing unless we do it to a
il^ 'J^ee. Why, then, should we draw
those dangers upon ourselves, first, from which
onrsiuiauon removes us farthest? When the
[lOGO
ancestors or yourselves, have ghren jou
the privilege of yoting in your own nght
in national consultations.
The adyanta^ of this constitution, the
security which it confers upon the nation,
and the restraint which it lays vqpon cor-
House of Austria had the imperial dignity and
their whole dominions, it was another matter.
Besides, you squander the money which the
queen of Hungary wants, and give her the troops
she doth not want. All we can spare b all we
can give. For we must be just before we are
generous. Your troops cannot get where she
waats them. The Hessians have declared
they will not act against the emperor. Hew
are the Hanoverians more at liberty to act
upon imperial ground, and acting npoo neutral
ground is nothing. Charies 5 treated the
elector of Saxony and Landgrave of Hesse as
disobedient vassals, and his successor Feidi-
naod carried things fiirther in the case of the
Palatinate. Things were setded by the trea-
ties of Westphalia at Monster and Osoaborg,
and the Electors are allowed to make treaties
with foreigners, but not against the emperor.
In this century the Circles of Suabia and Fras-
conia had agreed on a neutrality with the
elector of Bavaria in respect of France ; one of
them broke it, Bavaria fell on them ; the. em-
peror on him ; be called in France, and waa
put to the Ban. The little princes of Germany
dare not stir : the great ones will not : let the
House of Austria grow again. The states of
Holland have done now only in effect whattbey
did in the late war between the emperor wA
France. He tried to persuade them into his
measures but could not ; then to force them be
drew his troops out of the Barrier towns, on
which they made a neutrality lor those towns,
and tbey secure them with 30,000 men to gnr*
rison them. The queen of Hungary most
submit to what France requires, and you must
submit to what her necessities require ; and so
yon will be lefl alone against a nation who had
almost ruined you, when you had many ^tiea
and perpetual victories. The taking these
troops without consent of pariiameut,' is a
thing, which whoever advised, is as great an
enemy to his king; as his country. The war in
which we are engaged hj the desire of the
people is for^t: toat^ without their consent
prosecuted with vigour. In the utmost enthu-
siasm for the queen of Hungary, no one meant
we should engage as principals upon the eon*
tinent, which we have dono, and by Hanorer
troops, as if it were on purpose to provoke.
We have taken their Horse Gnards into pay,
of which a troop costs as ronch as a regfmeot
of others. W by should not the king trust bim*
self to the fidelity and courage of English
Guards? In 167S, the French king treated
with the duke of Hanover for 10,000 men.
The duke demanded levy money. Tbe king
would give but half what he asked, and that
only for such part as ahooU be new raissd.
1061 J Han&oerian Troops inio Sriiish Pay.
A. D. 174S.
[100
rapt minbters or ambitious prineesr are in
themselyes too obvious to admit of expla-
nation, and too well known in this House,
by whose ancestors thev were originally
obtained, and preserved at the frequent
hazard of life and fortune, for me to ima-
Sarely^ then, we should not have been made
to pay the whole for troops not intended to as-
sist us. A zealous opposition ought to be
made to all destructive, particnlarly all Hano-
verian measures.
Carteret. These troops were not taken into
pay without consent of parliament, not till tbe
Commons agreed to pay them, and the Lords
thanked the king for what he bad done. Till
then they were the king's troops as elector,
and if this had notbanpened they must have
gone back. Instead or forgetting the war with
Spain, we have wounded Spain to the heart
this last year. I will always traverse t|)e views
of France io place or out of place, for France
will rain this nation if it can. On the death
of the emperor, the king was the only German
prince that acted like one, raised an army
which he cannot maintain, and exposed him-
self to danger not for the sake of flfanover, f^r
which he might have made any bargain, but
that he might not disgrace himself as elector
or atf king. We are principals only against
Spain. France trusted to the weakness, not the
inclination of Holland. They made three aug-
mentations of their troops before they spoke a
word, two of them since the emperor's death,
in all 40,000 men, and they have not now
80,O00 : what a condition, then, were they in
at first. Then they said to us, we most see
yoa move before we do ;^ place an army be-
tween France and us, and then we may do
sonoething. To tiy the utmost was the reason
of sending forces mto Flanders, and it was a
step of some courage, but necessary. France
would not suffer jron to give tbe queen of Hun-
gary money unless you armed. And our army
hath hindered France from sending more forces
both against tbe queen and. Sardinia. If the
condition of tbe qoeen was so desperate, would
Holland take this time to do what it bath done?
Tbe Hessians were not enough, von could hire
no other but Hanoverians : would you neglect
it merely for that word ? This method will he-
come popular. You will be able by it to make
such a peace, that there will be no need to fear
France for our time. The present question is,
Will yon submit to France or not ? I am au-
thoriaEed by the king to say, that these troops
shall march into tbe empire, which is not acting
against the emperor and empire. France as-
aists the emperor only as elector. If he calls
France in as emperor, he breaks his Capitula-
tion Oath. If the empire can be made to speak
the language of France, the elector of Hanover
may be put to the Ban. But the question is,
who will find most friends in the empire? Per-
•ons cannot declare until they see help at band.
There is no such thing as imperial ground :
gine, that 1 can make them either more
esteemed or better understood.
My intention, my lords, is not to teach
others the regard which the constitution of
our government, or the happineas of the
nation demands from them, but to show
but we shall follow the eneni^ wherever ha
goes. France will not ventnre to declare ^ar
a^inst us : if she doth we are ready. When
it is said the, Dutch are come in, the states of
Holland only are meant. They owned at first
they were obliged to supply the queen with
5,000 men. This they bought off the first
year. When they saw us in earnest the second
year, the^^ paid tbe value of 10,000 men. Now
they admit the treaty in the full sense of the
queen, that thejr are obliged to give her an ef«
fectual succour in troops. For the present they
give S0,000 men, otfe-fiflh of them horse, and
concert with Great ftriuin. How long this
may be in going through the States General, I
cannot say. I do not say France can be
crushed, but for that reason she should be op^
posed when she aims to have Germany and
Spain. Italy and our opposition will succeed. I
will not enter into tbe detail of tbe Estimate, &e,
Bedford, These troops were not indeed, for
they could not be taken into pay without tbe
parliament. Bdl taking them might have
been proposed conditionally to the parliament
before -hand, but it was feSred they would say
iko, and this was done ta preclude them. Our
troops were sent merely to graft the Hanove-
rians upon^ The troops which the kin^ as
elector raised, did nothing, and hindered nothing,
and he hath not protested against the Roman
Months given to the emperor. We gave tbe
queen money before we armed, and shall not be
able to do it now. If no German prince will
venture to let us have troops for money, what a
condition are we in ; but enough of them wiH
lend their troops for Flanders as well as tlie elec-
tor of Hanover. Unless the king of Prussia will .
enter into an offensive alliance with us, we can
do ourselves no good even wit h the Dutch ; and
if these troops march into Germany and the
electorate should suffer, what recompenoes will
there be expected ? I will be for no reparation
in that case. The empire already spc»ks the
language of France, in giving tbe Roman
Months. Prussia will not permit you to re-
store the queen, and the German princes will
not endure a powerful emperor. Great part if
not all the troops might nave been sent from
hence. It hath been said without, if we are
wrong we must go on. But nobody will de-
fend snch logic here.
Bathurst. The question carries in it, that
these troops were taken into pay without ad-
vice, which is not true. We ventured break-
ing" with Franoft when we broke with Spam.
The best judge of military mattera in the king-
dom (duke of Argyle) approved of sending oar
troops. All France is crying oat for a peace.
I wish the qocaa coald have an eqaivalsat fop
txmj
16 GEORGIA IL
Debate in iKe Lords 9b taU^
[lOU
how much I regard them mjsd^ hf en-
deavouring to preserve and defend them at
a time when I think them invaded and en-
dangered.
Upon the examination of the estimates
now oe^re us, I cannot but think it ne-
Silesia : if oot, tben we most be content One
corrupt or obsdnate man can stop the Dutch
from moving. If it had been proposed to give
the queen a milhoo instead of troops, it wili be
aaidi where shall she have them, do men spring
up like mushrooms in Germany P And it would
hare been suspected, that but one half of the
money was reallv given her, and the other
half went somewhere else. We had so many
troops in- Eofflandy that the wisest man could
aoaree tell where to ijuarter them. Our debts
are no reason against eodesYouring to save
what we have left. When all is at Mtake we
most |ilay for all. France pays more interest
now than in 1712 : borrows this year 5 mil-
lions sterling, and pays 9 per cent. TJtmt then
probably the principal will nerer be paid.]
Herv€^. When we guaranteed the Pragma^
fie Sanction in 1731, it was to dispel the pre-
sent clouds, and preser? e the balance of Eu-
rope, it being then expected that the duke of
Loraine would be chosen king of the Ro-
mans. In the last war between the emperor
and France, it was not thought proper tor us to
act without the Dmtch. And how they who
were aninst the war with Spain can be mr this
war, I know not The complaint of the oppo-
sition was, that the Spanish war was not pur-
sued sufficiently : now it is not pursued at all.
How have you wounded Spain, is it by letting
them possess Savoy T The business now is to
to unite the emperor and thequeen in the same
interests : will an army in Fbindera do this P
The king of Prussia will pursue this scheme of
making ihem agree. Puffendorf thinks it is
not the interest of the empire to have a head
too powerful. If we become principals the
queen may leave all upon us. Nothing hath
been communicated in relation to this matter
but the king's Speech, apd be says, * if the
queen of Hungary is timely assisted by such
of her alhes,' &c. Now these alHes mean
Holland. And it hath been publicly and pri-
vately said, that such and such great men
would be for the retreat of our troops if the
Dutch did not oome in. The only sum given
was one not exceeding 500,0001., and our mi-
nisters by these troops have given what will
cost 600,000 more, and be no assisUnce. Is
this the design of the parliament.^ The
firmness and perseverance of the queen of Hun-
gary, if it be an effect of what we have done, is
n verv bad effect. She herself bath dntroyed
the Pnurmatic Sanction by giving all Silesia,
when Prussia claimed originally only part
ns his right. We have taxed indusU'y until it
pays more than it gets. We are now going to
pro|M|^ate drunkenness to raise money. Our
aedftispaitofooroahuauty. Persona cannot
cessary, my lordg^ that every man who
values liberty, should exert that spirit by
which it was first established ; that evay
man should rouse from his security, and
awaken all his vigilance and all his zeal,
lest the bold attempt that has been nov
employ or dare not trust their money in trade ;
so tliey put it into the stocks. But this florid
look is an unhealthy fiosbing. The customs
are fallen near 500,000/. from Chistmas 1741,
to 1742. The conduct of the king of Prussia is
the luckiest thing for us : ihis late step of Hol-
land if it be any thing, and if we could batl4
upon it, it is the worst. I should be glad erea
of a bad peace. If the admioistratioo wouid
avoid censure, they mnst change their coo-
duct The present motion is not ceosuie bat
advice.
Ckolmondeley. Uttle or nothing new tlisl
was material.
Batke, I am personally obliged to speik
on this subject by the malice of the world, sad
the arts of the enemies of the government i
did approve thia measure, and do approve it
It was not a rash measure of one single maa,
but the united opinion of all the administratina
who were present [lord Gower and Cobhsm
stayed away] not only acquiesced in, but ap-
proved on a solemn deliberation, in which the
name of Hanoverians was considered und
thought a trifling ooosideration. It is a mes-
sure which bath made the nation aigiuficant to
friends and foes. You might have had troops
a year or two henoefrom Switaerland. Sazoai
you oonkl not have. Flandets was placed is
the emperor, in trust for the Dutch and us. U
is ours, and the queen hath no right to give il
up. She wa? not able to defend tbe Barrier, sad
Holland was afraid. On this 4,000 men woe
sent over, the parliament sitting and knowiog
it, and many said they were too few. For
some time the chief of the Dutch have tfaoi^bt
we were right, and they have now dcviued
from their forms of government to come into
our measures. Scarce any body hath spokes
yet to tbe question. This is an Addivfi to
the king to ((isband flagrante btUo troops wbick
the other HoUse have i^iven money to fioj*
What a difficulty will this put the king under!
Tbe sense of the parliament is the sense of tiio
people. Breaking ^ese tropps would be s
greater blow to the queen of Hungary tbao
uieing ten batdes. If the motion were osly s
censure on the ministrv, I should be less ooo*
cemed ; for though I have a ^reat bonoor for
them, and a little connection with them, I am
not one 9t' them. But what would ihe Sotei
of Hollahd say to this, just upon their acoessioD/
Lords say they wouLd be glad of a bad peace,
why that is the way to have a bad one or oooe.
I hope a good peace will be aimed at for Ea^-
land, whether for tbe queen of Hungai^ror
not. In queen Aqne's war we sent over 10*000
men before the Dutch came in. I hope lonb
who were for emoUient veaaures wilb S^Bi
m]
Ktanofo&non Trodps into BrkM Pay.
ttde should, if it be not vtgoreuBly re*
ressedy be an encouragement to the more
Ko^erous encroaclmients ; and lest that
ibnc of power should be destroyed,
hich has neen erected at such expence
od with such labour ; at which one gene-
ire lived to see the^ were wrong. France
lid Loraioe for oomiog into the Pragmatic
isnetioD, though she said she would not bare
0 inch of ground. And then she drew ia all
be princes oonoemed to hreak it, though they
Ai] sworn to it. I speak only for the measure
ff getting an army together to talk to friends
)r toes. I have nothing to do to justify more.
Vould yon have this House go with an address
igiinst what the other have done? A fine
x^odition to ffet a good |ieace ! When that can
)e ^t, nobo^ is so enterprizing as to oontmue
ilie war an hour longer.
Chesterfield, There could not be a greater
»ntenipt of the parliament shewn than in this
iiMtance. TIley were taken into our service
though not into otu: pay, and the king said at
the opening of the session, that be had taken
them. Specimen JustitiK Anglorum in the
time of Edward 8, makes it a part of the com-
mea law that parliaments shall be frequently
held and consulted ; and says, foreigners had to
do with our business, who gave such counsel as
nited with the prince's private interest. The
dcctor of Hanover armed, indeed, but perhaps
upon the plan sent by connt Ostein from Lon-
doD, to get part of the Prussian dominions.
The merchants, indeed, say they are sare we
hafs a war with Spain iiecaose they lose theur
thips, else I should not have known it. What
is become of the real security, and take and
hold? And in Italy not Spain bot&rdinia hath
received a wound. MarUn indeed hath got the
l^iog of Naples to agree to a neutrality which was
made before, and which hath perhaps done harm ,
though acceptable to the ki^g of Poland. If
the Dutch act offensively, \i must be in Ger-
tnany, and then they must leave their barrier
iiniTQarded. Will these troops, which they
eomplaioed of and were afraid they woufd
^D^ danger to their doors, make them act of-
MOMvel V f The king spoke last session of the
isvourable disposition of the Dutch. What
they have done since is refusing to gtUHrantee
Hanover, protesting against our troops, and re-
Mfine to garrison their own barrier. Why
sot ti^Ee 16,000 more English? We should
BtiU have had more left here than in the former
^rs. It hath a bad aspect that we have nei-
ther an ally in Germaay, nor a prince that will
wte oar money. But they will not do it for
the same reason for whiofc the Hanoverians
|rill not march mto Germany. Or if the king
let theia ran that risk, this doth not prove it is
^ nsk. The king of Sweden will not let the
^ctBians maich thither. The king of Prussia
t^«th said iwto,and if so, there is an end of that
^•fch. He is the arbiter of the empire, and
^ul Dot he have things remain as they are?
A. D« 174S. [1066
ration has toiled after another, and of
which the wisdom of the most experienced
and penetcatinflp statesmen have heen em*
ployed to pertect its symmetry, and the
industry or the most virtuous patriots to
repair its decays.
Every German prince is glad of a weak era^
peror, and the present was unanimously elected
as such. 1 wish tlie late emperor had not been
Eowerful enough to deny some things which
e did. Better that any scheme had been de-
feated than that of these troops taken place.
The discontent they occasion, will be a greater
loss to this family dian any advantage abroad
can compensate. It is astonishing that Hano-
ver is not one of the powers engaged to guar-
rantee the Pragooatic Sanction. It hath not
given even its quota. The levy- money given
for troops levied 3 years ago for the use of the
electorate, and the artillery money and for re-
cruits, comes to what the troops would have
cost from L. D. without these articles. This
is a method by which future ministers may
pay their court to what they may mistake for
the favourite passion of the prince. The king
knows his interest too well to be moved by socn
considerations, but ministers may mistake and
flatter this way. And indeed there hath been
a visible northern direction and potantv in aQ
our measures. Excepting the war with Spain,
there hath not been one transactioii but must
create a su&picion. But this last is the most
pernicioos measure that ever was sdvised.^ If
it be the united advice of so many, 1 am very,
sorry for it, and had much rather it had been
the measure of one only. Whst ought to ba
the object of the war, the restoration of the
House of Austria, is impossible. You may
support it, but do not do it so as to ruin your*
selves. The people were uneasy at a disapr
pointment last year. The noise of war was to
drown their uneasiness. But the whole nation
is more universally against thb atep than it
ever was against any. And a negative on this
motion will be the moat melancholy thing I
ever saw in parliament
Newcastle. The province of Holland bath
taken extraordinary measures to over-rule some
of their towns. Now had garrisoning been sl|«
they would have been uuaniroous in it. The
Prussian minister at the Hague hath declared
to the pKsideot of the Week, that the report of
his master's designing to hinder the entrance of
the Eufflish into the empire is false, though
indeeil the contrary is generally believed . Prus •
sia made peace with the queen of Hungary
but 15 days before the parliament rose. Before
that, the fcinif would not spare his troops, nor
whilst Mailhbois surround^ Hanover. Votes
of confidence have often been desired, and it
hath been said, the king might more properiy
run the risk of the parliament's approbation.
In tliis he bath done so, snd if the parliaroeat
liad not approved it, no other harm had followed
than the loss of the measure, which if it be not
1067] 16 GEORGE II.
The first object which the estimates
force upon our observation is a numerous
body of foreign troops, for the levy and
Debate in ike Lordt an taking [lOGS
payment of which a very large sum is de-
manded ; and demanded at a time wheD
the nation Is to the last degree embamssed
a good one is no lost at all. We have not above
one half the number of 23*000 men in England :
many of the regiments are so empty by what
they have suffered. And the marines are all
on board the fleet. The king would not agree
to a neutrality with the king of Naples, and
there is none. It was proper first to give mo-
ney to the queen of Hungary. Then she de-
aired the reputation of an English army abroad,
and applied for our forces by her minister, and
they were sent upon that. There was power
given to the general of the Hanover troops to
mareh luto Germany before they went into
Flanders, if be found it proper. The king hath
not given his consent to the Roman months.
The queen of Hungary must be supported in
the posMsston of the Netherlands.
hontdale. The lords in the administration
have not at all opened in the debate what is de-
aigned to be done with these troops. Are they
designed to march into Germany P The Dutch
will certainly not march with them ? It will be
an immense ezpence before they can get into
Bavaria. The money which these 38,000
troops cost, would have enabled the queen of
Hungary to raise 80,000. Suppose it had
been moved to give her a million or a million
and a half, this would have been thought extra-
▼agant. But now we are content to give her
this, and so much English blood too. Or we
miffht have given her money to raise 40,000,
and send the remainder of our own. Our
troops will he much diminished in one cam-
paign, |)robably 12,000 men, and they cannot
oe' recruited there. Besides the emperor hath
as many Hessians as we, and can ours be
trusted f Are our troops^ then, to hinder the
French from sending recruits to their army ?
Why if we could stop them, they would lie in
their own country at one third of the expence
which we should be at in Germany. But the
tract 'to be guarded for that purpose is so large
that we cannot stop them. Are \ve then to at-
tack France with these troops ? That I cannot
think of. Yet it may be said, if you voted
against this question, that you voted in effect
for such a war. You will have no ally
in attacking France. And if we succeed what
are we to get by it P The king will have no
difficulty l^tween this House and the House
of Commons. For if we do not give him these
troops he cannot have them, and the difficulty
is at an end. If an edict were sent to the par-
liament of Paris to be registered, of whicli.'ttiey
knew no more than we do of the design of these
troops, I believe they would remonstrate
against doing it.
Hardwicke^ C. The question is not whether
you woulJ advise this measure or support it,
but whether you will censure it. It hatli often
been said, let the crown act, and if it be right
the parliament will approve it. But the crown
hath never asked advice, whether it ihooiA
make a treaty. Now this is a treaty in effed be-
tween the king and the elector of Hanorer. Ap-
plication could not be made topailiametitabout
this, till the king of Prussia had made peace
with the queen of Hungary. And if applica-
tion had been made then at the end of a 9ess.(m
in a thin House, that would have been tbooght
an artifice. It is right for those who ire re-
motest from danger to be first in opposing it;
if otherwise, it wfll certainly reach them. Tbe
expression * if the queen vras timely assisted
by her allies' means principally omselTes. It
could not mean all her allies : for the Freocb
are such. And if we had waited till all the
rest came in, she would have been aodonein tbe
mean time. The king of Prumia's oeatraTitr
dotb not arise from fear of the ban : he would
be much ofiended to have that imagined. Not
acting against the emperor, but aeiiost tiie
emperor and empire, subjecla to tbe na ; and
since tbe treaty of Westphalia, there hath been
no instance of any person put to tbe hu bat(v
the latter. It is not proper to declare befon-
hand tbe particular use that will be made of
our troops: that would make tbem of do use.
The constant influence of Hanover on our af-
fkin hath been set forth In a manner fiUsd to
make the people think, that no HanoreriaB
should sit on the throne here. I will alwayi
be against whatever Hanover measares ire
against this country. But this measare doth
not serve but endanger the dedorate, which
nothing else could endanger. It is certaioiy
right to bring about an agreement between tbe
queen of Hungary and the emperor. Bat tkt
must be done with arms in our bands.
N. C. 90. Of whom were all the Btsfaop,
duke of Leeds, &c.
C. 35. Of whom lord Cobbaro, RomoeT,
Gower, &c.
Searboraugk, MotM>n,
'' That sending the British Forees inta
Flanders, and joimnff tbe Hanoverians tolkeaii
was a prudent, usefiu, and necessary nesian^
and bath produced eood consequences.
Oxford f against Uie motion.
Chesterfield. Afler tbe former motion hatb
been rejected, this will pass. But I an ghd
however of this debate, and that in the Afr
House, for two reasons : that no minister will
ever advise taking Hanover troops agaio, aod
that it will DOW appear exactly bow dudt
persons there are in toese natkuis that sppiOTC
this measure.
C. 78.
N.C.d5.
Tbe duke of Leeds, loid Falmouth, Ray-
mond, &c. and the tashops of Gk)Ocestfr»
Oxford and Bristol, went away beibie this di-
virion.
ftanefoerian Tro9p$ in British Pay.
A. D. 1741
[107a
i oppresBed, when it is engaged in a
f with a powerful empire, and ahnost
erwhdmea with the debts that were
Qtracted in former confederacies; when
ii engaged in a war, not for the recovery
forgotten claimsi or for the gratification
resuess ambition, not for the consump*
» of exuberant wealth, or for the dis-
irge of superfluous inhabitants ; but a
IT in which the most important interests
» set to hazard, and by which the free-
pa of navigation must be either esta-
shed or lost ; a war which must deter-
iie the sovereignty of the ocean, the
fits of commerce, and the- state of our
hmies ; a war, in which we may indeed
victorious without any increase of our
Elation: but in which we cannot be
ited without losing all our iMuence
00 foreign powers, and becoming sub-
it to the insolence of petty princes.
When foreign troops are hired at a time
e this, it is natural to expect that they
fe been procured by contracts uncom-
mly frugal ; because no nation can be
jposed to be lavish in time of distress.
IS natural, my lords, to expect that they
)u]d be employed in expeditions of the
nost importance ; because no trifling ad-
stage ought to incite a people overour-
med with taxes, to oppress themselves
th any new expence; and it may be
a supposed tnat these troops were
bgr the advice of parliament ; oecause
minister can be supposed so hardened
defiance of his country, in contempt of
t laws, and in disregard of the public
ppiness, as to dare to introduce fo'
gners into the public service, in prose-
tion of his oMnn private schemes, or to
» the nation which he professes to serve.
It he may increase the wealth of ano-
tr.
But apon consideration of this estimate,
f lords, all these expectations, however
Monable in themselves, however consis-
It with the declarations of the wisest
tesmen, and the practice of former
les, will be disappointed ; for it will be
Dad that the troops of which we are now
latify the provisions for their payment,
1 raised at an expence never known on
» like occasion before, when the nation
s far more able to support it ; that they
7e yet been employed in no expedition.
It they have neither foueht a battle,
r besieged a town, nor unuertaken any
sign, nor hindered any that has been
ined by those against whom they are
etendea to have been raised ; that they
have not yet drawn a sword but at a re-
view^nor heard the report of fire-arms but
upon a festival; that tbevhave not yet
seen an enemy, and that tney are posted
where no enemy is likely to approach
them.
But this, my lords, is not the circum-
stance which ought, in my opinion, most
strongly to affect us; troops may be rais-
ed without being employed, and money
expended without effect ; but such mea-
sures, though they ought to be censured
and rectified, may be borne without
any extraordinary degree of indignation.
While our constitution remains unviolated,
temporary losses may be easily repaired,
and accidental misconduct speedily re-
trieved ; but when the public rights are
infringed, when the ministry assume the
power of givinff away the properties of the
people, it is then necessary to exert an
uncommon degree of vigour and resent-
ment ; it is as necessary to stop the in*
croachments of lawless power, as to oppose
the torrent of a deluge ; which may be
perhaps resisted at first, but from which ,
the country that is once overwhekned by
it, cannot be recovered. ^
To raise this ardour, my lords, to excite
this laudable resentment, I believe it will be
only necessary to observe, that those troope
were raised without the advice or con-
sent of parliament ; that this new burthen
has been laid upon the nation by the des-
potic will of the ministers, and that the
demands made for their support may be
said to be a tax laid upon the peo- '
pie, not by parliament but by the court.
The motives upon which the ministry
have acted on this occasion are, so far as
they can be discovered, and indeed ^there
appears very little care to conceal them;
such as no subject of this crown ever
dared to proceed upon before; they are
such as the act of Settlement, that act to
which our sovereign owes his title to this
throne, ought for. ever to have excluded
firom British councils.
I should proceed, my lords, to explain
this new method of impoverishing our
country, and endeavour to show the prin-
ciples from which it arises, and the end
wnich it must promote : but some sudden
indisposition obliges me to contract my
plan, and conclude much sooner than I in-
tended with moving, ** That an humble
Address be' presented to his majesty, to
beseech and advise his majesty, that, con-
sidering the excessive and grievous ex-
pences, incurred by the great number og
1071J
16 GEORGE n.
Ddiste in the Lards on taking
[KB!
Foreijgiii Troops Boir in the pirjr at Great
Britain (expences so increased by the ez«
traordinary manner> as we apprehend, of
making the Estimates relating thereunto,
and which do not appear to us ccmduciTe
to the end proposed K his majesty will be
graciously pleased^ m compassion to his
people, loaded already with such nume-
rous and heavy taxes, such large and
growmg debts and greater annual ex-
pences than this nation, at any time, ever
Defore sustained, to exonerate his subiects
of the charge and burthen of those Mer-
cenaries who were taken into our service
last year, without the advice or consent of
parliament/'
The Earl of Sandwich :
My lords; though I have' heard
the noble lord with so much pleasure, that
I could not but wish he had oeen able to
deliver his sentiments more fully upon
tills important affair ; yet I think the mO"
tion so reasonable and just, that thou^
he mieht have set it more beyond the dan-
ger of opposition, though he might have
producea many arguments in defence of
It, which perhaps will not occur to any
other noble lords ; yet I shall be able to
justify It in such a manner, as may secure
the approbation of the unprejudiced and
disinterested ; and therefore I rise up to
second it with that confidence, which
always arises from a consciousness of ho-
ttest intentions, and of an impartial enqui-
. ly after truth.
The measures, my lords, which have
rn occasion to this motion, have been
some time the subject of my reflec-
tions; I have endeavoured to examine
Aem in their full extent, to recollect the
previous occurrenoes by which the minis-
try might htLY^ been influenced to engage
In them, and to discover the certain and
the probable consequences which tbey
may either immediately, or more remotely
produce; I have laboured to collect from
those who are supposed to be most ac-
quainted with the state of Europe, and the
scheme of British policy which is at pre-
•ent pursued, the amiments which can be
offered in favour of these new en^age-
inents; and have compared them wiw the
conduct of former aees upon the like oc-
casions ; but the resiUt of all my searches
into history, all my conversation with po-
fitictans of^every party, and all my private
meditations, has been only, that I am
every hour confirmed by some new evi-
dence in tl^e opinion I had first formed;
and now imagine myself to \mm «bit|
at first believed, that we are entaschi
in a labyrinth of which no end is to h
seen, and in which no certain path j^
yet been discovered ; 'that we are pontau
schemes which are in no degree neoostp
to the prosperity of our countrj, by ram
which are apparently contrary to lav, t
policy, and to justice; and that we are i
volved in a foreign quarrel only to vaa
that blood, and extiaust that treaBan
which might be employed inrecoreiia
the rights of commerce, and regaidog A
dominion of the sea.
To prosecute the war against S^
with that vigour which interest and ream
ment might be expected to prsdace, |
repress that insolence by w^ch oor aaij
gation has been confined, and to igmi
Uiat rapacity by which our merchintskM
been plundered, and that cruelty by wU
our rellow-subjects have been eaian^
tortured, and murdered, had beenai a
tempt in which every honest msond
readily have concurred, and tovttdi^
those who had sense to discern M
own interest, or virtue jto pmHfl
the public happmess, would dieerCI
have contributed, however loaded fi
taxes, oppressed with a stendii^ $m
and plundered by the yultures of aoap
nor IS the ancient spirit of the Brilidid
tion so much depressed, but that m
Spain had been subdued, when ouri^
had been pubKcIy acknowle^^[;ed, d
losses repaired, and our colonies aecnl
when our ships had agam sailed ia MJ
rity, and our flag awed the ocein of iW
rica, we mi^ht then have extended d
views to foreign countries, might hned
sumed once more the guardiiu8hip«f||
liberties of Europe, have given law l»i
powers of the continent, and spperiBM
ed the happiness of mankind. Bat iii
present situation of our affiurs, win H
nave made war for years without sM
tage, while our most important Mk4
yet subject to the chance of bsrae^ il
we should engage in the defence of mJ
princes more t&n our stipulations resH^
I am not able to discover; nor csnlcai
ceive what motive can incite ik» JH
having suffered so much from a wedt ctf
my, to irritate a stronger.
To the measures which are now pasBB^
were there no other arguments toted
leged against them, I should think it, if)
lords, a sufficient objection that they i^
unnecessary, and that diis is not s tial
for political experiments, or kr wntd
1073]
HaHoverian Troopz into Briiuh Pay.
A. t>. 17iS.
[1074
expenooft. I should think, that the pre-
sent distresses of the public ought to re-
strain your lordshups from approving any
steps by which our Durthens may be made
more heavy, burthens under which we are
a] ready sinking, and which a peace of
more than twenty years has not contri-
buted to lighten.
But that they are unnecessary, my lords,
is the weakest allegation that can be oiler-
ed ; for they are such as tend not only to
obstruct the advancement of more advan-
tageous designs, but to brmg upon us the
heaviest calamities; they will not only
hinder us from increasing our strength,
but will sink us to the greatest degree of
weakness ; they will not only impoverish
lis for the present, which -may be some-
times the effect of useful and beneficial
desi^nsy but may depress us below a pos-
aibflity of recovery, and reduce us to re-
ceive laws irom some foreign power.
This is, indeed, a dreadful prospect;
but what other can arise to us from a war
with France, with the most wealthy em-
pire of the universe, of which we were
sufficiently shown tlie strength in the late
war, by ue resistance which all the sur-
rounding nations found it able to make
against their united efforts, and which the
debts that they then contracted, and the
towns that were then destroyed, will not
easDy suffer them to forget. Of this em-
Sire, my lords, thus powerfid, thus formi-
able, neither the dominions are contract-
ed, nor the trade impaired, nor the inha-
bitants diminished. The French armies
are no less numerous than under their late
mighty monarch, their territories are in-
creased bv new acquisitions, their trade
has long been promoted by the destruc-
tion of oursy and their w^th has been
by consequence increased. They have
not, my lords, like this unhappy 'nation,
been exhausted by temporary expedients
and useless armaments ; they have not
harassed their merchants to aggrandise
the court, nor thrown away the opportu-
nities which this interval of quiet nas af-
forded them, in the stru^sles of faction ;
they have not been multiplying officers to
betray the peofjle, and taxing the people
to support their oppressors; but have
with equal policy,* diligence, and success,
recovered the losses which. they then
sustained, and enabled themselves to make
another stand against a general confe-
deracy.
Against this empire, my lords, are we
now to be engaged in a war, without trade
[VOLXIL]
and Without money, loaded with debts, And
harrassed with exactions ; for what con-
sequences can be expected from sending
our troops into the frontier towns, but
tliat the French will charge us with be-
ginning hostilities, and declare war against
us, or attack us without a declaration;
and that we shall be obliged to standalone
against the whole power of the House of
bourbon, while alfour ancient allies stand
at a distance spiritless and intimidated,
or perhaps secretly incite our enemies
against us^ in hopes of sharing our plunder,
or of rising on our rqin ?
I know it has been aDeged, and alleged
with suq|i a degree of coimdence, as it is
reasonable to hope nothing could produce
but a consciousness of truth, "Uiat the
Dutch have already consented to assist
us ; nor is it without regret,' that I find
myself oblieed to declare, that this asser-
tion is nothing more than one of those
transient visions with which it has been
for a long time the custom of British mi-
nisters to delude the people, to pacify
their clamours, and lull them in secu-
rity ; one of those artifices from which
nothing more is expected than that it shall
operate upon t})e nation, till the circum-
stances or Qur afiairs furnish out another,
which is likewise, in a short time, to be
exploded only to make way for new false-
hoods in a perpetual succession.
Such, my lords, is the art of govern-
ment discovered by the wonderfiu saga-
city of modem statesmen ; who have found
out, that it is easier to palliate thitn Xs>
cure ; and that the people may be quieted
by political soporifics, while diseases are
preying upon them, while their strength
decays, and their vitals are consumed.
That these falshoods prevail upon
mankind, and that after the discovery of
one cheat, another equally gross is pa-
tiently borne, cannot but raise the wonder
of a man who views the world at a dis-
tance, and who has not opportunities of
enquiring into the various motives of ac-
tion or belief. Such a one would be in-
clined to think us a nation of fools, (hat
must be stilled with rattles, or amused
with baubles ; and would readily conclude,
that our ministers were obliged to practise
such fallacies, because they could not pre-
vail upon us by motives adapted to reason-
able beings.
But if we reflect^ ray lords, upon the
different principles upon which reports
like these are propagated and opposed, it
will easily be discovered that their suc-
[SZ]
1075] 16 GEORGE II.
DAate in the Lards on iaUng
[1076
ceM is not to be imputed either to supe-
rior art on one side, or uncommon w&k-
ness on the other. It is well known that
they are promoted by men hired for that
purpose with larffe salaries, or beneficial
employments, and that they can be op-
posed only from a deure of detecting
fidshood, and advancing the public hap-
piness ; it a apparent that those who in-
vent, those wno circulate, and perhaps
part of those who countofeit belief of
them, are incited by the pros^tect of pri-
vate advantage, and immediate profit;
and that those who stop them in their
career by contradiction and objections,
can propose no other benefit to themselves,
than that which they shall receive in com-
mon with every other member of the com-
Xnupity ; and therefore whoever has suffi-
feienify observed mankind, to discover the
reason for which self-interest has in almost
all ages prevailed over public spirit,
WiU be able to see why reports like Uiese
are not always suppressea by seasonable
detections.
A minister ought not to flatter himself
that he has alwa^ deceived those who
bppear to credit his representations; their
nlen'ce is not so often the effect of cre-
dulity, as of cowardice or indolence.
Many are overborne by the pomp of great
offices, and others who distinguish more
clearly, and judge with greater freedom,
are contented to enjoy their own reflec-
tions, without reproving those whom they
despair to reform.
This report of the^ engagement of the
JDutch in our measures, shall however
furnish our ministers with no opportunity
of boasting their address, nor snail it pass
any longer without contradiction; for I
lihall without any scruple affirm in the
presence of this assembly, that the Dutch
Aave hitherto appeared absolutely neutral;
that they have not shown any improba-
tion of our measures, nor any inclination
to assist us in them. I know, my lords,
how disagreeable this assertion may be to
those, whose interest it is that mankind
should believe them of no less fcnportanoe
in the eyes of foreign powers than in their
own, and should imagine that the remotest
nations of the worM are influenced by
their motions, and directed by dieir coun-
sels; but however they may resent this
dechiratioa, I defy them to confute it,
and now call upon them to show that
tfie Dutch have engaged in any mea-
sure for the support of the ^pieen of Hun-
gary.
The late angmentatton of ^,000 men,
which may possibly be mentioned as a
proof of their intention, Aown nodm^
but that they pursue their own interest
with their usual prudeice and uttrntimi,
and with sudi as it b to be wished that
our ministerB would condescend to leaxn
from them ; and that they are too wise to
suffisr the towns from whidi the Austriana
have, by our persuasioBS, withdraiim their
troops, to fidl into the hands of the French.
They hare therefore solMtitufced new gar-
risons, bttt seem to have no regard to tha
interest or the queen of Hun«uy, nor axnr
other view than that of providing for their
own security, waithig the event of die
war, and laymg hold of any advantags
that may acddentaUy be oflfered them.
It nmy be urged £ttther by thoae Who
are deSnt>U8 to deceive others^ or willing
to be deceived themselves, that the pro-
vince of Holland has passed a vote fer as-
sisting the queen of Honffary with 9DfiOO
men ; but tt it be remeoSbered, my lords,
that this must be the general act of the
united states, and that every province hag
its own particular views to midfy, and its
own interest to recondie with the general
good, it ma; be verjr reasonabtyau^peeted,
that this assistance n jti rather the object
of hope than expectation ; it mnj justly be
f^^ared, that before so many vanooa dispo-
sitions will ttnite,and sucK dml^ntachemes
will be made consistent, Ae House of Aus-
tria may be extingmshed, that our forces
may be destroyed^ and Gennaay enslaTed
by the French. Then, my lords, what will
remain, but that we afaaD cune that fdUy
that involved us in distant quarrels, and
that temerity which sent us out to oppose
a power which we could not wMistaiid;
and which incited us to waste Ihat trea-
sure in foreign countries, irhiA we may
quicidy want for the defbnce of bur own ?
It must b^ indeed confessed, that if an
estimate is to be made of oar condition,
from the conduct of our ministers, the fear
of exhausting our treasure must be merely
panic, and the precepts of fhigafi^ whi^
other states have grown great by obsetving^
are to be dl)solutely unnecessary. It may
reasonably be imagined that we have some
secret mine, or hidUen repository of gpld,
which no dejjree of extravagance can
drain, and which may for e?er supply the
most lavish expences without diminotion.
For upon what other soj^Msition, my
lords, can any man attempt a defence dT
the contract by which we have obtained
for one campaigu the servioe of die tioops
MTT]
Hanmserum Troopi nOq BritukPay.
A. B. 174S4
tlWB
if Hanorer ? What but tbe confidence of
-undfl that can never be deficient, could
nfluence them to conclude a stipulatiooi
l)y which leyy*inoney is to be paid for
\io€fpB ot which not a single regiment was
raise! for our service, or on we present
occasion ; which were established Tor the
lecurity of the electorate of Hanover, and
MToold have been maintained, though we
liad not engaged in the affiurs of the con-
tinent.
What were the reasons which induced
mir minis^ to employ the forces of Ha-
nayet,i it is^ perhaps, not necessary to en-
quire. The only motive that ought to have
iafluence4 them, was die pros]^ct of oh*
tainin^ them upon cheap terms ; far, my
lords, if tbe troops of Hanover cannot be
obtained, but at the same expence with
those of Great Britain, I am not able to
discover, why they should be preferred.
I have never heaird, my lords, any un-
common instances of Hanoverian courage,
that ahouUL inciine us to trust the cause of
Europe rather to that natiop than to our
own; and bA inclined' to believe, that
Great Britain is able to produee men emial
in all miKtary virtues to any native of that
happy country ; a country which, though
it was thought wortbv to be secured by a
neutrality, w^^n all the neighbouring pro-
vinces were exposed to the ravi^pes of war,
I have never heard celebrated m any pe-
culiar exceUencies; and of which I cannot
but observe, that it was indebted for its se-
curity »th«c to tbe precaution of itsprinoe,
th^the brav^ ot its inhabitants.
This demana of levy-m<mey shocks every
Eoglighman ^et aaorestrongly, on oonsider-
inghyifhom it is required; required by that
wily whom we have raused from a petty
dommion, for which homage was paid to a
auoerior power ; and whidi was, perhaps,
omy suffered to retaiQ the appeai^aace of
a semtfate sovereignty, because it was not
wortti the labour and expence of an inva-
non; because it would, neither increase
>iches nor titles, nor gra^y either avarice
or ambition ; by a family whom from want
^ weakness we have exalted to a throne,
vQia whence, with virtue equal tp their
power, they may issue their mandates to
^ remotest pvts of the earthy may pre-
scribe the course of war in diitant empires,
aad dictate terms of peace to half the mo-
wchsoftheg^obe.
I should imagine, my lords^ that when a
™^ of the House of Hanover surveys ^
^v>CB| reviews his troops, or examines his
'^'ent, beholds the splen^pur of hisjcourt,
or contemplates the extent of his domi-
nions, he cannot but somedmes, however
unwillingly, compare his present state with
that of his ancestors; and that when ^e
gives audience to the ambassadors i^
princes, who^ perhans, never heard of Har
never, and directs the pavment of siimsi
by the smallest of which all his ancient in*
heritance would be dearly pqri^hased ; ani|
reflects, as surely he sometimes will, ^ha|
all these honours and riches, this reverence
from foreign powers, and his douiestip
splendour, are the gratuitous and voluntarj
nfts of the people of Great Britain, he
^ould find his heart overflowing with un*
limited gratitude, and should be ready tQ
sacrifice to the happiness of hisbenefactorsu
not only every ^edy interest, or apcidental
inclination, but even his repose, his safety^
or his life ; that he should be rc^dy to ea^
them of every burthen before they com-
plained, and to aid them with all his poweg
before they requested his 'assistance ;^ that
he should eonsider his little territories an
only a contemptible province to his British
empire, a kind of nursery fqr troops to be
employed without harassing his more v%^
luanle subjects*
It might be at leaat hoped, n^v lqrd%
that the princes of the Hquse of Hanovec
might liave the same resard to this natiaii|
as to kings from whom they never received
any benefit, and whom they ought ha
reality always to have considered as ene*
mies, yet even from such levy-monev waa
not alwaya required ; or if reqjoired^ vrafi
not always received.
There was once a time, my lords, befbrf
any of this race wore the crown of Great
Britain ; when the great French monarpfag
Lewis 14i being under a necessity of hirmg
auxiliary troops, applied to the duke m
Hanover, as a prince whose necessities
would naturally incline him to set the livet
of his subjects at a cheap rate. The didceg
of trafficking
I, readily pro^
and demanded
that he mi^ht
ButHanovenai^
pleased with an
with so wealthy a
misied a sapply of tr^
levy-money to be pal
be enabled to raise them,
reputation was not then raised so high, a%
that the t'rench king should trust him with
his money. liowis suspected, and made
no scruj^e of declaring his suspicion, that
tbe deoaand of levy-mone]^ waf only a pre*
tenoe to obtain a sum wmch would never
^rwarda be repi^d, and for which no
troq^ would be obtfloned ; and therefore
with U| usual prudence insisted, that tbe
treopa itMHild first march, and then hf
1079] 16 6EOR6IS IL
tkittie in tie Lords on takhg
[1080
pud. Thiufor some tiine the treaty was at
ft stand: but the kine beinff eqoally in
want of men, as the ouke or money, and
perceiving, perhaps, that it was i^afly im-
practicable tor so mdigent a prince to raise
troops without some pecuniary assistance,
offered him at length a small sum, which
was. gladly accept^, though much below
the orieina] demand. The troops were
engaged in the service of France ; and the
duke pf Manover thought himself happy
in being able to amuse himself at his iei«
sure with the rattle of money.
Such, my lords, were the conditions on
which die troops of Hanover were fur-
nished in former times ; and surely what
could then be produced by the love of
money, or the awe of a superior nower,
ttight now be expected as the encct of
gratitude and kindness.
But not to dwell any longer, my lords,
upon particular circumstances of measures,
of which the whole scheitie is contrary to
the apparent interest of this kingdom, I
•hall not enquire farther, why auxiliaries
are employed on this occasion rather than
British, rather than those whose bravery is
celebrated to the most distant comers of
the earth ? why, if mercenaries are neces-
•ary, those of Hanover are preferred to
others : or why, if they are, mdeed, pre-
ferable, they are now to be hired at a
higher rate than at any former time i It
appears to me of far more importance to
undermine the foundation, than to batter
the superstructure of our present system
of politics ; and of greater use to enquire,
why we have ensiled in a war on the
continent, than why we carry it on with
ridiculous profusion.
It appears to me, my lords, that there
are many reasons ^ich, with the same
circumstances, would have witUeld any
nation but this from such a dangerous in-
terposition. The Dutch, we see, are con-
tent to look on without action, though
they are more interested in the event, and
less embarrassed on any other side. We
are already engaged in a war, of which no
man can foresee the conclusion; but
which cannot be ended unsuccessfully,
without the utmost danger to our most
important interests : and which yet has
hitherto produced only losses and diserace,
has impoverished our merchants^ and inti-
midated our soldiers. Whether these losses
are the effects of weakness or treachery,
is a question which I am not ambitious of
endeavouring to decide, and of which the
decinen is, indeed, by no
sary in tbe present ddntermce if we
are too weak to strugde widi Spain, un-
assisted as she is, and embarrasndwith
different views, I need not say what wiQ
be our condition, when the whole House
of Bourbon shall be combined against us ;
when that nation which stood slone for so
many years i^nst the united effimrts of
Europe, shall attack us exhao^ed with
taxes, enervated with corruption,' and dis-
united from an allies. Whether die troops
-of Hanover will assist us at that time, 1
cannot determine. Perhaps, in the de-
struction of the British dominions, it msj
be thought expedient to secure a more
valuable and important country by a time-
ly neutrality ; but if we have any anxifia-
ries from thence, we must (hen necessarilj
obtain them upon cheaper terras.
If our inactivity in the European seas,
and our ill success in those of America,
be, as it is generally suspected, the conse-
quence of perfidious counsds, and private
machinations; if our fleets are sent out
witli orders to make no attempt against
our enemies, or our admirals commanded
to retreat before them ; surely no higher
degree of madness can be imagined, than
that of provoking new enemies before we
have experienced a chan^ of counsels,
and found reason to place m our ministeis
and statesmen that confidence which war
absolutely requires.
This is the conduct, my^ords, which I
should think most ratioiud, even though
we were attacked in some of oar r^
riehts, and though the quarrel sboot
which we were dating was our own ; I
should think the nearest danger the great-
est, and should advise patience under fo-
reign insults^ till we haa redressed our do-
mestic grievahcesr till we had drrren
treachery from the court, and cormption
from the parliament. Butmuchmorepro|)er
do I think this conduct, when we are in-
vited only to jengage in dbtant war, in a
dispute about the dominion of princes in
the bowels of the contin^t ; of princes of
whom it is not certain, that we dnll r^
ceive either advantage or security from
their greatness, or that we should soffir
any loss or injury by their fidl.
But, my lords, I know it will be answer-
ed, that the queen of Hungary has a right
by treaty to our assistance ; and that ia
becoming guarantees of the Flraflnatic
Sanction, 'we ensa^ed to support ber in
the dominions of her aiicestors. This,
my lords, is an answer of iriuchldo not
deny die jostnesa, imd of whidiliriBi^
lOBl]
Hantyoerian Troopt into SrkUh Pag. A. D. 174S.
[1061
ittempt to invalidate the strength. I al-
lofr that such a stipulation was made^ and
dttt treaties ought to be observed, at
iriiBtever hazard, with unviolated faith. It
hM been Indeed objected, that many na-
tioDS engaged with us in the same treaty,
whom interest or cowardice have indined
to neglect it ; and that we ought not to
become the standing garrison of Europe,
or to defend alone diose territories, to th6
jffeservation of which so many states are
obliged to contribute equally widi our-
selves. But this, my lords, appears to me
m argument of which the ill consequences
can never be fully discovered ; an argu-
meat which dissolves all the obligations of
contracts, destroys the foundation of moral
justice, and lays society open to all the
mischiefs of perfidv, by making the vali*
dity of oaths and, contracts dependent
upon chance, and regulating the duties of
one man by the conduct of another. I
pretend not, my lords, to long experience,
and therefore in discussine intricate ques-
tionfl, may be easily mistiS:en. But as in
my opinion, my lords, morality is seldom
difficolt, but when it is clouded with an
intention to deceive others or ourselves, I
didl Tentore to declare with more confi-
dence, that in proportion as one man neg-
.lects his duty, another is more strictly
oU^ed to practise his own, that his ex-
ample may not help forward the jjeneral
corruption, and that those who are mjured
by the perfidy of others, may fVom'his sin-
cerity have a prospect of relief.
I believe aH politics that are not founded
on morality, will be found Macious and
» destructive, if not immediately to those
who practise them, yet consequentially by
tb^ general tendency to disturb society,
and weaken those obligations which main-
tain the order of the world. I shall there-
fore allow, that what justice reouires from
a private man, becomes, in parallel c&*cum-
BtanGes,theduty of a nation; and shall,
tiierefore, never advise the violation of a
solemn treaty. The stipulations in which
we engaged, when we b^capie guarantees
of the Iragmatic Sanction, are doubdess
to be observed ; and it is, therefore, one
of the strongest objections against the
measures which we are now pursuing, that
we shall be perfidious at a greater expence
tiian fidelity woidd have refquired, and
siutU exhaust the treasure of the nation
without assisting the queen of Hungary.
To explain this assertion, my lords, it is
wcessary to take a view of the constitution
Dfthe Germanic body, which conaiBts of a
fireat number of separate govmunents in«
dependent of each other, but subject ii|
some degree to the Emperor as the gene*
ral head. The subjects of each state are
ffovemed by their prince, and owe no d*
le^iance to any other sovereign ; but tiie
pnnce performs homaee to the Emperor,
and having thereby acknowledged himsdf
his feudatory or dependant, may be pu«
nished for rebeUion against him. The title
of the Emperor, and consequently his claim
to this allegiance, and the rieht of issuing
the Ban against those who snail refuse it»
is confirmed by many solenm acknowledg-
ments of the Diet, and amongst odiers by
the grant of a pecuniary aid ; this the pre-
sent Emperor has mdisputably received,
an aid having been already nanted him in
the Diet, of a subsidy for eighteen monUm ;
and therefore none of the troops of G^rw
many can now be employed against him,
without subjecting the pnnce to whom
they belong to the censure of the Ban, a
kind of civil excommiuiication.
To what purpose then, my lords, are ws
to hire, at a rate never paid, or perh^a
demanded before, troops which cannot
serve us without subjecting their prince to
the charge of rebellion ? Or how shall we
assist the queen of Hungary, by collecting
forces which dare not act agamst the only
enemy which she has now to fear ? Or ia
what new difficulties shall we be ensaged,
should the inestimable dominions of Hano-
ver be subjected to the imperial interdic-
tion ?
These, my lords, are questions to which,
1 hope, we shall hear a more satisfiictoiy
answer than I am abte to conceive ; for,
indeed, I do not see what temains, but to
confess, that these troopa are hired only
for a military show, to amuse this nation
with a false appearance of zeal for^e pre-
servation of Europe, and to increase the
treasures of Hanover at the expence of
Great Britain.
Thes^ are designs, my lords, which no
man will avow, aim yet these are the only
designs which I can jret discover; and
therefore I shall oppose all the measures
that tend to their execution. If the heat
of indignation, or the asperity of resent-
ment, or the wantonness of contempt, have
betrayed me into any expressions un-
worthy of the dignity of this House, I hope
they will be forgiven by vour lordships;
for any other degree of freedom I shall
make no apology, having, as a peer, e
right to deliver my opinion, and as a
Briton, to assert the independence of my
iOB»}
16 OEOBGB n.
pd^im tie Lordt ea iaUng
[lOH
pmiye cOUDtiy* when I see, or imapne
myself tp see, that it is i^ominiously ana
illegally subjected to the promotion of the
petty interest of the province of Hanover.
Lord Carterei •-
My lords; as I doubt not but I
ihall be able to iustify the measures which
ire now pursued, in such a manner as may
entitle them to the approbation of your
lordiJiips, I proposed to hear all the ob-
ections that should be made, before I at-
mpted a vindication, that the debate
mi^t be shortened, and that the argu-
ments on both sides might be considmd
as placed in the full stren^h of opposition ;
ana that it might be discerned how ob|ec«
tions, however specious in themselves^
would vanisJi before the light of reason and
Iruth.
But the noble lord has made it necessarv
&r me to alter my design, by a speech
which I will not implaui, because it has,
in my dpmion, an m tendency ; nor cen-
au^ because it wanted neither the splen-
dour of eloquence, nor the arts of reason^
ing ; and had no other defect than that
wmch must always be produced by a bad
cause, fallacy in the arguments, ana errors
ii^ the assertions.
This speech I am obUeed to answer,
because nis lordship has been pleased to
call out for any noble lord who will assert,
that tiie Dutdi have agreed to concur
with us in assisting the queen <^ Hungary.
That all the provinces of that republic
have agreed to assist us, is indeed not trae ;
nor do I know, my lords, by whom or
upon what authority it was asserted ; but
t$e concurrence of the province of Hol-
land, the most important of all, and whose
example the rest seldom delay to follow,
has been obtained^ which is sufficient to
encourage us to vigorous resolutions, by
which tne rest may be animated to a
speedy compliance.
The concurrence of this provmce has
been already the consequence of the mea-
sures whicn have been lately pursued;
measures from which, though just and suc-
cessful, the ministry cannot claim mudi
applause ; because all choice was denied,
and they were obliged either to remain
passive spectators oi the ruin of Europe,
and, by consequence, of Great Britain, or
to do what they have done. ^ And surely
my lords, that necessity which deprives
tfiem of all claim to pane^ric, will be
likewise a sufficient security ^om censure.
Tber^ is, indeed, no reason to fear cen>
sure from judra so candid andesperiacsd
as your lordiKips, to whom it ma? with*
out difficulty be provedt that the baboce
of £urope has already changed its poatioo,
and the House of Bourbon is bov not able
to preponderate against the other powos.
. By entering into an alliance with $»•
dinia, we have taken from the crowxi of
Spain all the^ weight of the territoties of
Italy, of whidi me Austrian forces are
now in possession, without fear or danger
of being intemi^ted; while the passesof
the ocean are shut by the fleets of Gceat
Britain, and those of the mAiiptftinf by the
troops of Sardinia.
Tnose unhappy forces whkah were
tranmorted by tKe Spanish fleet, are ml
only lost to weir native country, but es«
posed without provision, without amiDUDt-
tioB, without retreat, and withoot kpe:
nor can any human prosj^ect discover hov
they can escape destruction, either bjdie
&t^e of'inarches,or thewantofoeoo*
saries, or the superior force of an nmy
well su{q[ilied and dated with succeK
This, my lords, is an embanraBSDefit
from which the Spaniards would ^iadljbe
freed at any expence, from whicb they
would bribe us to relieve them, by per-
mitting the demolition of new foctreiiei,
or restoring the army which we lost at
Carthagena.
Pf this alliance the yieen of HoDgaiy
already finds the advantages, as it ^
serves countries in lier possesstoii, which,
if once lost, it might be impossible tsre:
cover ; and sets her free from theneoeBiitj
of dividing her army for the protectioo of
distant territories.
Thus, my lords, the Spaniards are ob-
structed and distrusted; <^ their armiefi
one is condemned to waste away at the
feet of impassible mountains, oaly tohev
of the destruction of their countirsiea
whom they are endeavouring toreuere,
and the establisbment of peace in these
regions of which they had projected the
conquest ; and the other, yet more uufor*
tunate, has been aucces^ully tiaofiportd,
only to see that fleet which pensitted
their passage, preclude their siqppSeSy ^
hinder then: retreat.
Nor do we, my lords, after having thai
efficaciously (uiposed one of the piiaoef of
the House of Bourbon, fear oribunthe
resentment of the other ; we doubt not t»
show, that Great Britain is stOl able to le*
tard Ae arms of the hau^ty Frendi, and
to drive them back from the invaaoa of
other kingdoms to the dc^fimpe of their
»65]
Hanofoerian Troops inio SritM Pay. A. D. 174fS.
[KISS
Hrti. Hie time is at hand, my lords, in
MA it will appear, that however the
tower of Fhirtce has been exaggerated,
rith whatever servility her protection has
leoD courted, and with whatever mean-
tfss her hisolence has been borne, this na-
ion has not yet lost its influence or its
trength, that it is yet able to fill the con-
bent with armies, to afford protection to
ts allies, and strike terror into those who
live hitherto trampled under foot the
kitfa of treaties and rights of sovereigns,
■d ranged over the dominions of the
uring princes, with the security of
possessors, and the pride of con-
joerors.
It has been objected bv the noble lord,
hat tfan change is not to be expected from
a army composed of auxiliary troops
ram any of the provinces of the German
ntpirei because they cannot act against
be general head. I can easily, my lords,
otve this difficulty, from my long ad-
[oaiatance with the constitution of the
Sire, which I understood before the
e lord, who has entertamed you with
discooise upon it, was in being ; but I
rifl not engross your time, or retard your
ietemiination, by a superfluous disquisi-
loD, which may be now safbly omitted;
hce I am allowed by his majesty to as-
ure your lordships, that the Hessian and
tnoverian troops shall be employed in .
nsting the queen of Hungary, and that
bqf have already received orders to make
he preparations necessary for tnarching
ito the empire.
After this declaration, my lords, the
lost formidable objection against the pre-
int measures wiB, I hope, be no more
eard in this debate ; fbr it will be by no
nans proper for any lord to renew it by
nquiring, whether his majesty's resolu-
oa is not a breach of the imperial consti-
ition, or whether it will not expose his
bsctoral dominions to danger. For it is
ot oar province to judge of the laws of
ttier nations, to examine when they are
Wated, or to enforce the observation of
tem; nor is it necessary, since the in-
iwsts of Great Britain and Hanover are
reconcilably opposite, to endeavour the
reservation of dominions which their own
9vereign is inclined to hazard.
Thus, my lords, I hope it appears, that
le common interest of Great Britain and
lurope is steadily pursued ; that the Spa-
wds feel the effects of a war with Great
Wtain by their distress and embarrass-
^t; iSsX the queen of Hungary dis-
covers, that the ancient allies of her ftv^
niily have not deserted her; and that
fVimce, amidst her boasts and hefpro^
jects, perceives the determined opposeiv
of her grandeur again setting her at de^-
fiance.
The Duke of Bedford :
My fords ; the assurance whidk thte
noble lord who spoke last declares himself
to have conceived of being able to demon-
strate the propriety of the present mea-
sures, most surely arise firom some intett^
gence which has been hitherto suppressed^
or some knowledge of fliture events pecur
liar to himself; for I cannot discover any
force in the arguments which he has been
pleased to use, that could produce in him
such confidence of success, nor any cir-
cumstances in the present appearance of
Europe, that do not seem to demand a dif-
ferent conduct.
The reasonableness of our measures at
this time, as at all others, must be ^nced
by arguments drawn from an attentive
review of the state of our own country,
compared with that of the neighbouring na^
tions; for no man will deny, mat those me-
thods of proceedine whicn are at one time
useful, may at another be pernicious ; and
that either a gradual rotation of power, or
a casual variation of interest, may very
properly produce changes in the counseb
of the most steady and vigorous adminis-
tration.
It is therefore proper, in the examina^
tion of this question, to consider what i
the state of our own nation, and what is to
be hoped or feared from the condition of
those Idbigdoms, which are most enabled
by their situation to benefit or to hurt its :
and in enquiry, my lords, ah enquiry tliaft
can give littfe pleasure to an honest and
benevolent mina, it immediately occurs,
that we are a nation exhausted by a long
war, and impoverished by the diminution
of our commerce ; and the result, there-
fore, of this first consideration is, that
those measures are most eli^ble whibh are
most frugal; and that to waste the public
treasure in unnecessary expences, or to
load the people with new taxes only to
display a mocxery of war on the continent,
or to amuse ourselves, our allies, or our
enemies, with the idle ostentation of un-
necessary numbers, is to drain from the
nation the last remains of its ancient vi-
gour, instead of assisting its recoverjr from
Its present languors.
But moiieyi boweyer valuablei however
10B7]
16 GEORGE U.
DehUe m the Lonb on iaUng
[1088
neoewttiy, has tometiiiiesbeen imprudent-
ly and unseasonably spared; and an ill-
tuned panimony has been known to has-
ten caianiitiesy by which those have been
deprived of all who would not endeavour
to preserve it by the loss of part. It is
therefore to be considered, whether mea-
sures less expensive would not have been
more dan^rous; and whether we have
not, by hiring foreign troc^, though at a
.very high rate, at a rate which would have
been demanded from no other nation, pur-
chased an exemption from distresses, in-
auks, and invasions.
The only nations, my lords, whom we
have any reason to suspect of a design to
invade us, or that have power to put any
auch design in execution, are well known
to be the French and Spaniards; from
these, indeed, it may justly be expected,
that Uiey will omit no opportunity of gra-
ti^ing that hatred which difference of re-
ligion and contrariety of interest cannot
fail to continue from age to age; and
therefore we ou^t never to imagine our-
. selves sa£e, while it is in their power to en-
danger us. But of these two nations, my
lor£, the one is already disarmed by the
navies of Great Britain, which confine her
fleets to their harbours, and, as we have
been just now informed, preclude her
armies from supplies: the other is without
a fleet able to transport an army, her
troops are dispersed in different coun-
tries, and her treasures exhausted by
expeditions or negociations equally expen-
vnve.
There is therefore, my lords, no danger
of an invasion, even though we had no
forces by which it could be opposed; but
much less is it to be feared, when it is
remembered, that the sea is covered with
our ships of war, and tliat all the coasts
of Europe are awed and alarmed by the
navies of Great Britain.
This then, my lords, is surely the time,
when we ought not to have sacrificed any
immediate and apparent interest to die
fear of attempts from Spain or France,
ivhen we mi^Ut without danger have as-
sisted our alhes with our national troops,
and have spared that money which we
have so lavishly bestowed upon auxilia-
ries; when we might securely have shown
the powers of the continent how much
British valour is yet to be feared, and how
little our late losses or disgraces are to be
imputed to the decline ofour courage or
our strength. *
I suppose, my lords, no man will con-
fess, that forego troops have been hired
as more to be trusted for their akiD or bra-
very than our own. To diq;>ute the palm
of courage with any nation would be a re>
proach to the British name ; and if our
soldiers are not at least equally disciplined
with those of other countries, it must be
owned, that taxes have heea long paid to
little purpose, that the glitter of review^
has been justly ridiculed as an einpty
show, and that we have long been nat-
tered by our ministers and geaerflUs with
false security.
But tliough I am fistf from believing,
that the army has been supported only for
the defence ofour country ; and though I
know, that their officers are fireqaently en-
gaged in employments more ioBp<Ktantiu
Uie opinion of tneir directors, than that ui
regulating the discipline of their r^-
ments, and teaching the uae of arms and
the science of war; yet, as I believe the
courage of Britons such as may often sup-
ply the want of skill, I cannot but con-
clude, that they are at least as formidable
as the troops of other countries, especially
when I remember, that they enter tk-
field incited and supported by tbe reputa-
tion of their country.
Why then, my lords, is the nation con-
demned to support at once a double bur-
then, to pay at home an army which an
be of no use, and to hire auxiliaries, p<:i-
haps, equally unactive; to make war, it
any war be intended, at an unnecej^sary
ex^nce, and to pay^ at once, a fiedt
which only floats upon the ocean, an anuj
which only awes the villages from which n
is supported, and a body of mercenaries,
of which no man can yet conjecture with
what design they have been retained ?
That tliey are intended for the support
of the queen of Hungary has been, indeed,
asserted ; and this contract has been pro-
duced as an instance of the zeal of our
ministers for the assertion of the Pragma-
tic Sanction, the preservation of the Uber-
ties of Europe, and the suppression of the
ambitious enterprlzes of uie House of
Bourbon ; but surely, my lor^s, had the
assistance of that illustrious princess been
their sole or principal intention^ had tber
in reality deaicated the sum which is to
be received by the troops of Hanover, to
the sacred cause of public faith and uni-
versal liberty, they might have found nie>
thods of promoting it much more effics* ,
ciously at no greater expence. Had they
remitted that money to the aueen, she
would have been enabled to call natioot
1069]
Han&^Derian Troopi hUd BrUish Pay.
A. D. 174S.
[1090
to her ftafidftrd, to fill the viainM of Ger-
many iHth tlie hardy inhabitants of the
mountaiDt and the deterts^ and have de-
lated the emphre of France with malti-
todea equally daring waA rapadous, who
would have deacended upon a fruitful
country like vultures on their prey, and
hare laid those provinces in ruin which
now smile attbeaevaatation of neighbour-
ing countries^ secure in the protection of
their mighty monarch.
By this method of oarryinff on the war
we might have secured our dlv from dan-
ger which I cannot but tlnnk miminent
and formidable, though it seems at present
not to be feared. By so large an addition
to her troops, she would have been enabled
to frustrate those desiffns which her suc-
cess may incline the king of Prussia to
&nn against her ; for with whataver tran-
quillity he may now seem to lo<A upon
tliis general commotion, his conduct gives
us no reason to imagine, that he has
changed his maxims, that he is now forget-
ful or negligent of his own interest, or
that he wiU not snatch the first opportunity
of aggrandizing hinoself by new. pre-
tensioni to the queen of liunggiy's do-
At least, my lord^, it may without
scruple be asserted, that the hopes which
some either form or affect of engaging Jiim '
in a confederacy for the support of the
Pragmatic Sanction, are merely chimericaL
He who has hitherto considered no in-
terest but hia own, he who has perhaps en-
dangered himself by attempting to weaken
the only power to which he, aa well as
the other princes of the empire, can have
recourse for protection from the ambition
of France, and has iJierefore broken the
rules of policy only to gratify a favourite
passion, will scarcely concur in the exal-
tation ci that fiunily which he has so lately
endeavoured to depress, and which he ha^
so mudi exasperated acainst him. If he
is at leneUi, my lords, alarmed at the am-
bition of the House of Bourbon, and has
learned not to facilitate those desi^pss
which are in reality formed against him-
self, it cannot be doubted, that he looks
with equal fear on the House of Austria,
fhat he knows his safety to consist only
m the weakness of both, and that in any
contest bet«i:een them, the utmost that can
he hoped from him is neutrality.
But, my lords, he whose security de-
pends only onr a siqppoaitionit that men will
Aot deviate from right reason or true
policy, is in a state which can afford him
[VOL. XII.]
very little tranquillity or confidence;
whatever is necessarily to be preserved,
ought to be defended, not only from cer*
tain and consUmt danger, but from casual
and possible in^rie^ ; and amone the rest,
froai those wmch may proceed from the
mutability of the wiU, or the depravation
of understanding ; nor shall we sufficiently
estabii0h the House of Austria, if we leave
it liable to be shaken whenever the king
of Prussia shall fe^ his ambition rekindlecH
or his malevoleiice excited ; we must not
leave it dependent on the friendship or
policy of the n<»ghbouring powers, but
muat eaMe it oqce more to awe the em-
pire, and set at defiance the malice of its
enenues*
ThiB, faj lords, might have been done
by a liberal subsidvf by wbieh armies might
have been levieo^ garrisons established,
and cities fortified; $hd why any other
method was pursued, wfaait reason can be
assigned ? What, but an inclination to ag-
grandize and enrich a contemptible pro*
vince, and to deck with the plunder of
Great Britain the electorate or Hanover?
It has been suspected, my lords (nor
hasthesuspicic^been without foundation),
that our measures have long been regu-
lated by the interest of his majesty's e&c-
loral territories; these have been bng
considered as a ^ulf into which the trea-
sures of this nation have been thrown ;
and it has been observed, that the state of
the country has, since the accession of its
princes to this throne, be^n changed with-
out any visible cause; affluence has begun
to' wanton in their towns, and gold to
glitter in their oottaees, without the dis-
covery of mines, or Uie increase of their
trade ; and new dominions have been pur-
chasedt of which it can scarcely be ima-
gined, that the value was paid out of the
revenues of Hanover.
This, my lords» is unpopular, ille^, and
lust, yet this might be borne in con-
aioeration of great Mvantages, of the pro-
tection of our trader and the sufmort of our
honour. But there are men wno dare to
whisper, and who, perhaps, if their sus-
ipicions receive new confirmation, wDl pub-
licly declare, that for the preservation of
Hanover, our commerce has been neg-
lected, and our honour imf^aired ; that to
secure Hanover from invasion, the House
of Bourbon has been courted, and the ih-
mily of Austria embarrassed and de«
pressed.. These men assert, without hesi-
tation, that when we entered into a league
with France against the emperor and the
1091]
16 GEORGfi II.
Dtbaie in i^ Lords m taUng
tl09f
Spaniards, in the reign of the late king, no
part of the BritiBh &minion8 were in dan-
ger ; and that the alarm which was raised
to reconcile the nation to measures so
contrary to those w4iich former ages had
punuea, was a fictitious detestable artifice
of wi<leid policy, bj which Great Britam
was engaged in the defence of donunions
to whidi we owe no regard, as we can re*
ceive no real advantage firom them.
It were to be wished, that no late in*
stance could be produced of conduct re-
gulated by the same principles; and that
Siis shameful, this pernicious partiality,
had been unhrersally allowed to have
ceased with the late reign; butithasnever
2et been shown, that the late neutrality,
J which Hanover was preserved, did not
xestrain the arms of Great Britain; nor
when it has been asked, why the Spanish
army was, when within reacn of the can-
non of the British navy, peaceably tran-
sported to Italy, has any otner reason been
assigned, than that the transports could
not oe destroyed without a breach of the
neutrality of nanover.
This, my lords, is a subject on whidi I
could have only been induced to dwell, by
my zeal for the present establishment, and
my i>erBonal affection for his majesty. It
is universally allowed, that not only the
honour and prosperity, but the safety of a
British monarch, depends upon the affec-
tions of his subjects; ana that neither
splendid levies, nor Ifirge revenues, nor
standing armies, can secure his happiness
or his power any longer than the people
are convinced of his tenderness and re-
gard, of his attention to their complaints,
and his seal for their interest. It there-
fore it should ever be generally believed,
that our king considers this nation only
as appendent to his electoral dominions,
that he promotes the interest of his former
aubiects at the expence of those by whom
he has been exalted to this throne, and
diat our commerce, our treasures, and our
lives, are sacrificed to the safety, or to the
enlargement of distant territories, what
can be expected ? What but murmurs, dis-
afiection, and distrust, and their natural
consequences, insurrection and rebellion ?
rebellion of which no man can foresee the
event, and by which that man may perhaps
be placed upon the throne, whom we have
so wisely excluded, and so solemnly ab-
jured;
Of this unreasonable regard to the in-
terest of Hanover, the contract which we
ave now coosidering exhibits, if not a
proof too apparent to be denied, yet socfa
an appearance as we ought for oar own
ndces andthatofhismajeay to obviate;
and therefore I think the Addicas which is
in the highest degree rea*
. and am oonvinosd, that by con*
plying with our request, his mqesty will
gain die affections of many of hisanbjeets,
whom a long train of pernicioas measmvs
have filled with discontent; and preserve
the loyalty of many others, who, by artlid
representations of the motivea aDci conse-
quences of this contract, may be alienated
and perverted.
Lord BatkurU •*
My lords ; as I have no resaoo to
doubt the noble duke's alEectioii to the
present royid fimiily, I am convinced, that
the ardour of his expressions is the eiect
of his zeal, and that the force of his re-
presentations proceeds only frooi the
strength of his ccmviction ; and therefore
I am far from intending to c^iaore any
accidental negligence of language, or any
seeming asperity of sentiment. 1 know,
that tiie openness and dignity of mind
which has incited him to declare his opi-
nion wiUi so much freedom, will induce
him likewise to retract it, when he shall
be convinced, that he has been deceived
by &]se representations, or that he has
formed his conclusions too hasdhr, with*
out an attentive examination of tbe ques-
tion in its whole extent
I shall, therefore, endeavour to explan
the motives upon which all these measures
have been fbrmed which we have heard
so wamdy censured ; and show, that they
were the consequences not of haste and
negligence, but of vigilance and circum-
spection ; that they were formed upon a
oelibNerate survey of the complicaled in-
terests of the European powers, and dic-
tated not by a partiality to Hanover, but a
fkithful attention to the interest of Great
Britain.
It has been already Observed by a noUe
lord, that there was no choice allowed us ;
that the state of Europe required, that
we should not sit uhactive ; and tliat yet
there was no other method of acting, Jiy
whidi we could benefit our allies, or mjSi*
our enemies ; and that dierefore, though
our interposition had not produced all the
effects wnidi our zeal might incline us to
wish, yet our conduct ought not to be
condemned; because, though we did not
press forward throo^ the nearest path
to the great object oriKR' puisoit, we ea^
lOQS]
Hanaoerian Troops inio Brititk Pay.
A. D. 1748.
[lOM
erted tmt utmost qpeed in the oaly way
that was left open. ThU» my loras, is,
in my opinioo, a ▼erv just apology ; nor
do I see, that this vindication can be con-
fated or inyalidated otherwise than by
showing, that some different measures^
measiirea equally reasonable, were equally
in oar power.
But oecause the plea of necessity may
oertiqps be evaded ; and because it is at
least pleasing to discover, that what was
necessary was likewise convenient, I shall
endeavour to show, that our measures
have produced already such e&cts, as
have sufficiently rewarded our expences ;
«Dtd that we may yet reasonably hope,
that greati^r advantages will anse from
them.
There are» indeed, some whom it will
not be easy to satisfy, some who declare
not against the manner in which the war
is prosecuted, but against the war itself;
who think the power of France too for-
midable to be opposed, and the people of
Great Britain too much exhausted or ener-
vated to hold any longer the balance of
the continent.
I have indeed, my lords, always declar-
ed myself of a different opinion, and have
frsquently endeavoured to rouse others
from a kind of indolent despair and tame
acquiescence in the attempts of the French,
hj representations of the wealth and force,
the influence and alliances of our own pa-
tioQ. I have often asserted, that I did
not doubt but her conquests might be
stopped by v^rous opposition, and that
^ current of her power, which had by
artificial machines of policy been raised
higher than its source, would subside and
sta^pate^ when its course was no longer
ittsttted by cowardice, and its way levelled
by subnrission*
These, my lords, were my sentiments,
and this was my language at a time, when
«U the powers of Europe consnired to flat-
ter the pride of France by falling at her
feet, when her nod was solicitously watch-
ed by all the princes of the empire, when
there was no safety but by her protection,
nor any enterprise but by her permission ;
when her wealth influenced the counsels
of nations, when war was declared at her
coDUBand in the remotest comers of Eu-
rope, and every contest was submitted to
ker artntration.
^ Even at this time, my lords, was I suffi-.
<^tly confident of the power of my own
^2<MiDtcv^, to set at defiance in my own
nmd Uus gigantic state. I considered all
additions to its greatness radier as the
tiunour of disease than the shootings of
vigour, and thought that its nerves grew
weaker as its corpulence increased. Of
my own nation I saw, that neither its num«
hers nor its courage were diminished, I
had no reason to believe our soldiers or
our sailors less brave tlum their fathers ;
and therefore imagined, that whenever
they should be led out against the same
enemies, they would fight with the same
superiority, and the same success.
But for these hopes, my, lords, I. was
sometimes pitied by those who thought
themselves better acquainted with the state
of Europe than myself, aod sometimes
ridiculed by those who had been long ac*
customed to depress their own countiy,
and to represent Great Britain as only the
shadow of what it once was; to deride
our armies and our fleets, and describe
us impoverished akid corrupted, sunk
into cowardice, and delighted with sla*
very.
That my opinion is now likely to be
justified, and that those who have hitherto
so confidently opposed me will soon be
obliged to acknowledge their mistake, is
of very small importance ; nor is my self*
love so predominant as to incline me to
reckon the confirmation of my predictious,
or the vindication of my sagacity, among
the benefits whicfar we are now about to
receive. IVe are now soon to be con-
vinced that France is not irresistible,, nor
irresistible to Great Britain. We are now
to see the embroilers of the universe en-
tangled in t^eir own schemes, and the de-
populators of kingdoms destroyed in tbos^e
fields which they have so wantonly laid
wastOt We shall see justice triumphant
over oppression, and insolence trampled
by those whom she has despised. We
shall see the powers of Europe^ once
more equaUy balanced, and the balance
placed again in the hands of Great
Britain^
If it be. required upon what events these
expectations are founded; and if it be
alleged, that we have ho such resolutions
to hope from the measures that have been
hitherto pursued ; it baa been affirmed by
a noble ford, that our armies in Flanders *
are useless, and that our motions have
given neither courage nor strength to any
other powem ; that the queen of Hungary
is yet equally distressed, and that the
French stUl pursue their schemes without
any interruption from us or our allies. I
shall hope by an impartial account of the
10S9J
16 OEORGB IL
JMote in ike L&fA m latti^
present state of the eoDtnieiit to iIk»w,
that his assertions are groundless, and hw
opinion erroneous.
The inactivity of our amy in Flanders
has, indeed^ furnished a popular topic of
declamation and ridicule. It is well known
how little the bulk of mankind are ao-
quamtedy either with arts of pcrficy, or c^
war; how imperfectlv they must always
understand the conduct of ministers or
generals, and with what partiality they Al-
ways determine in favour of their own na-
tion. Ignorance, my lords, conjoined
with partiality, must always produce ex-
pectations which no address nor courage
can gratify; and it is scarcely, therefore,
to be hoped, that the people wBl be satisfi-
ed with any account of the conduct of our
generals which does not inform them of
sieges and battles, slaughter and devasta-
tion. They expect that a British army
ahould over-run the continent in a sum-
mer, that towns should surrender at their
summons, and ledons retire at their shout,
that they should drive nations before them^
and conquer empires by marching over
them.
Such, my lords, are the effects whidb
the people of England expect; and as
thejr hiave hitherto been disappointed,
their disappointment Inclines them to com-
plain. They think an army useless whidi
gains no victories, and ask to what pur-
Sose the Sword is drawn, if the blood of
leir enemies is not to be shed? But
these are not the sentiments of your k^i^-
fihips, whose acquidntance with public
affairs informs you, that victories are often
gidned where no standards are taken, nor
newspapers filled witb lists of the riain ;
and that by drawing the sword oppor-
tundy, the necessity of striking is often
prevented. You know, that ue army
which hovers over d country and draws the
forces which defend it to one part,' may
(destroy it without inva£ng it, by expos-
ing it to the invasion of another ; and that
he who withholds an army firom action, is
not less useful to his ally than he that de-
feats it.
This, my lords, is the present use of our
troops in Flanders ; the French are kept
in continual terror, and are obliged to de-
tach to that frontier those troops which,
had they not been thus diverted, would
have been employed in the empire ; and
surely an army is not unactive which with-
holds a double number from prosecuting
their design.
That our motions have not encouraged
[IflSS
other pamrn to fbUil their
or to unite in the defeooe oft
hbertyof Eurooe, cannot truly be i
ed. The Dutdi appmntiy waken fiooi
their slumber, whether it was real or sISmu
edr they at least discover kass fear of dw
French, and have ake^ pvsn such
proo& of their inclination to join frith oi
as nay encourajge ns to expect, that they
will in a short ttme fonn , with os aaotbsr
confederacy, and emj^oy their ntnuMtcf-
forts in the common cause.
What they havo already offered wfll it
least enable us to assist the queen of Him*
gary with greater numbers, and her tosoh
ploy her troops wliere she is most pnssed;
for they have engased to garnson the
towns of Flanders, which, since they csn«
not be evacuated, is in effect an offsr of
auxiliary troops; since if those forest
had been added to the Austrian army, m
equal number of Austrians most have bees
subducted to garrison the frontier.
It is, therefore, witiioat reason, dat
narrow-minded censurers charge us with
becoming the slaves of the Dutch, widi
fighting their battles and defending thsir
barrier, while they puiBue their cotamsrce
in 'tranquillity, enjoy oeaoe at tfaeezptnoe
of British blood, ana grow ri^ 1^ tiis
profusion of British treasure. It ^pesn»
that they concur in the preservaticHi of
themselves and of Europe, tfaoogfa widi
delays and caution ; since, though they
do not send forces into the field, taey sap-
ply the place of those whidi are sent, sod
emible others to destroy those whom they
are not yet persuaded toattack themselves.
The ccmstitution of duU repuhlk; is, in-
deed, such as makes its alliance not pli-
able on sudden emergencies in nropoitioa
to its werith and power. The deteranns-
tioos of large assemblies are ahrays siow;
because there are many opinions to be ex-
amined, many proposals to be bahmced,
and many objections to be answered. Bat
with much more dfficulty must anj im-
portant resolution be formed, where it
must be the joint act of the wh<rie ascem-
hXyj vrhere every individual has a n^atife
voice, and unanimity akme can make a
decision obligatory. Wherever this is the
form of government, die state lies st the
mercy of every man who has a vote in.itB
councils ; and the corruption or foUy or
obstinacy of one may retard or 4sfeat t^
most important designs, lay his ooontry
open to the inroads of an enemy, dissobe
the most solemn aUlanoes, and invetTeans-
tion in miseiy.
1913
OiMMriaii Troops fate BriAh Pay. A. D. ITtf. [I09i
Thi9, my lords, I need not observe to
\ the Dutch con^tutioD, por need I tell
lis House* that ve loe not always to
dge of the geoeivl ladiiiatioji of that
^ople by the prooedor e of their deputies*
ace paiticular men may be influenced by
ivate views, or corrupted by secret prjo-
isea or bribes; and those desips may be
itarded b]|r their artifices whioh the ho«
vA and impartial uniTenally approve,
his ia peih^s, the true reason of the
eaeot oehiys which haye furnished oo**
tsioo to sttdi loud complainls, compbiints
* which we may hope quickly to have an
id ; aiDoa it can hardly be doubted, but
le general voice of the people will there,
\ in other places, at last pcesaU, and the
*ejudices or paisstoiis of private men give
ay to tlie intersst of the puUio.
That the queen of Hungary is now
lu^ly distressed, and that £t has receiv>-
I no advantage from She assistance, which
e have at so great an expence appeared
) give her, is Idcewise very hx from being
ue. L«et any man oompara her present
>iidition, with that in which she was before
reat Britain engaged in her cause, and
will easily be perceived, how mudi she
weB to the allianoe of 'this nation. She
as ^en flying before her enemies, and
^u<^ to seek for shelter in the remotest
sirt of her dominions, while her capital
aa fortified in eapectation of a siege.^
hose who then wew distributing her pro-
noes, and who almost hovered over her
nly remaining kingdom, are now retiring;
sfoie her troops* The anny by idiich tt
as intended that her teiritories in Italy
lould be taken from her, is now starving
I the countries which it presumed to
kvade ; and the troops, which were sent
» its assistance, are languishing at the feet
r naountaias whidi they will never pass.
These are the efiects, my lords, or those
leaaures, which for want of being com-
[eUAj understood, or attentiveiv con-
derra, have been so vehemently oea-
ired. These measures, my lords, how-
ler injudicious, however 'unseasonable,
Ave onbanassed the designs of Fhmce,
id given relief to the queen of Hungary ;
ley have animated the Dutch to action,
id kindled in all the powers of £ttrojf»e,
ho were iatimidatedby the Fk«noh armies,
ew hopes and new resmutions ; they have
ideed made a general change in She stale
r Europe, and given a new inclination to
le bamnce of power. Not many months
ave elapsed, sinoe every man appeared
I cOQsioNT thosovereign of Ranoe as the
uniweiepal monarch, whose viU ifisi ngt t«
be opposed, and whose force ires not to bo
resisted. We now see his menaees dar
spised, aod his propositions r^cted; erciqp
one ^ow ampears to hope rather than to
fear, though kttely a general panic wis
spr<mdover this part of the globe, and fear
had so engrossed mankind, that scsmly e
man presumed to hope*
But it is ol^eoted, my lords, that thoui^
our measures aboidd be allowed not, to
have been wholly ioeSbctual, and our mo«
nev appear not to have been squaodered
only to pay the troops of Hanover, yet our
conduct is very fiur from meriting either
applause or approbations since much
greater advantages might have been pur^
nhased at much less espence, and by me*
thods much less invidious and dangerous.
The queen of Hungary might, in ihf
opmion of these censurers, have raised aa
hundred thousand men with the money
which we must expend in hiring onJy
sixteen thousand, ana miffbt have d^^yed
those enemies whom we have hitherto not
dared to attack.
Those wluf make this supposition tha
foundation of their censures, appear ant
to remember, that the queen of Hun^psry 'a
dominions, like those of other prmces^
may by war be in time exhausted; thai^
the loss of inhabitants is not repaired ia
any country but by dow degrees; andtha^
there is no place yet discovered where
money will procure soldiers without end,
or wliere new harvests of aaen rise up ani-
nuaUv» ready to fight those quarmls ia
which their predeceasors were swept away.
If the money had; iaitaad of being m^
ployed in hiring auxiliaries, been remitted
to the queen, it is not probable that she
could at any rate have brought a new
army together* But it is certain, that her
new traeps mast have been without anna
aadwsdiQut discipline. It might have been
found, perhaps, in this genersd distiishanne
of the worlo, not easy to have supplied
them with weapons ; and it is well known
how long rime is required to teaoh rav
forces the art of war, and enable them to
stand before a veteran enemy.
It was, therefore, necessary to amiat her
rather with traopa than money ; and sinoe
troops were necessarily to foe hired, why
shoidd weempbyriieforces of Hanover lew
wiMingiv thanthoseof any other nation? To
assert that they have more or less courage
thao others is chimerical, nor can any man
suppose them either more brave or timo-
rous than those of 4he
lOM]
l& GBOIt&£ II.
Ikkiie im IJU Lf>rJ$ on UMiig
[IIM
triet, wkiMmt difloovering the meaiMil pre*
judkety ^aod the narroweit conceptioDS ;
wMioot Bhowing thai he it wholly unac-
qaainted with haman Datuie» and that he
k influenced by the tales of nitneS) and
the boaau of dhiidren.
There wasythereforeynoobjectienagainft
Hie troops of Hanorer, that was not of
equal strength against all foreign troops;
and there was at least one argument in
Aeir fii^oory that they were subjects of the
same prince; and that therefeie we could
lurre no reason to fear their defection, or
to suspect their fidelity.
The dectorate of Hanorer, with what*
ever contempt or indignation some persons
tnay affisctto mention it, is to be consider-
ed at least as a state in alliance with Chreat
Britain, and to receiTe from us that sup-
port (whidi the terms of that alliance may
demand.
Any other regard, my lords, indeed it is
not ifecessary to contend for; since it can-
not be proved, that in this transaction we
kave acted otherwise than as with allies,
or hired the troops on , conditions iHiich
tiiose of any other nation would not have
obtained, or on any which they will not
deserve; since your kmiships have receiv-
ed assurances, tnat they are ready to enter
Ae ficJd, and to march into Germany
•gainst the common enemy. That we
might have raised new troops in our own
nation, and have augmented our army
.with an equal number of men, cannot be
denied; nor dol doubt, my lords, but our
countrymen would be equally formidable
with any other forces ; but it must be re-
membered, tliat an army is not to be levied
in an instant, and that our natives, how-
ever warlike, are not bom with the know-
lec%e of the use of arms ; and who knows,
whether Europe might not have been en-
alcved before a British army could hove
been raised and disciplined for its deli-
Terance?
Whether this aoeount of our measures
will satisfy those who have hitherto con-
demned them, I am not able to foretel.
There are, indeed, some reasons for sus-
pecting, that they blame, not because they
disapprove, but because they think it ne-
cessary either to the character of discern-
ment or *of probity, to censure the mi-
nistry, whatever maxims are pursued. 0£
this disposition it is no dignt proof, that
contrary measures have been sometimes
condemned by the same men with the same
vehemence; and* that even compliance
with tl^ demands has net atillea
outcries. When the ministry inesitd
unwilling to engage in the war or Ger^
many, without the concurrence of the
other powers who had engaged to support
the Pkagmatic Sanction, they were hourij
rcjproached with being the slaves of Fnnce,
with betrajring the general cause of Eu-
rope, and wim re|Messing that geoeroai
ardour, by which our ancestors Iwve bea
indtod to stand forth as the asseiton of
universal liberty, and to fight the qosrrd
of mankind, iliey were marked oat n
either cowards or traitors, and doooied to
infemy as the aooompUceiuof tyraim j, en-
gaged in a conspiracy against their sUiei)
thor country, and their poaterity.
At length the British have roused agaiB,
and again dedared theaisel»es the oup*
porters of right, whenever imuied; tbej
nave again raised their atanwds in the
continent, and prepare to march agaa
through those regions where their victoriei
are yet celebrated, and their brsvoy yet
reverenced. The hills of GenBiny vi
again sound with the diouts of that peopU
who onoe marched to her delirennci
through all the obstructions that art or
power could form against them, sad vhid
broke through the pass of ScheUembouig,
to rout the annies that were mged ht-
hind it.
Now it miflfat be eiq>ected, my lordi^
that at least &ose who were before diaop
tisfied, should dedare their approbttioa;
for surely where peace or neutiuityii »»•
proper, there is nothing left but war. Yet
experience shows us, mat men resohredtv
blame will never want pretoaces for vent-
ing dieir malignity; and where nothinf
but malignity is the consequence of oppo-
site measures, we. must necesnrily ooo*
dude, that there is a fixed reiolotioD to
blame, and that all vindications will be is*
eflectuaL
Some have, indeed, found out a middk
course between censure and approbation,
and dedare, that they think these measures
now justifiable, because we have proceeded
too far to retreat with honour ; sod thit
though at first a better scheme raigbt have
been formed, yet this, v^icb has hi-
therto been pursued, ought not nov to be
dianged.
I, my lords, though it is not of veiy
mat imp<Nrtance to confote an opiaiw
by which the measures of die gofernneDt
will not be obstructad, cannot foibear to
declare mysdf of differeot sentiments, aod
to assert, m opposition to artful cskmoiei
and violent uvectivea> that the preset
101]
HBtwoefim Trooptiuto BriUk Pay. A. D. HfS.
[llOf
leasures were originally right, that they
ere such as prudence would dictate, and
Kperience approve, and such as we ought
fain to take, if we have again the power
r choice.
I am, indeed, fiur from doubting, but
lese meaiures will in a short time be jus-
fied by success; a criterion by which,,
owever unjustly, the greatest part of sum-
ind will always judge of the conduct of
leir governors; for it is apparent, my
nrds, that howsoever the French power,
ommerce, and wealth, have been exag-
erated by those that either love or fear
lem, they will not long be able to stand
gainst us ; their funds will in a short time
ul them, and their armies must be dis-
inded, when they can no longer be paid,
St, instead of protecting their country,
ley diould be inclined to plunder it*
The abundance of our wealth, my lords,
nd the profit of our commerce, are suffi*
iently apparent from the price of our
tocks, which were never before supported
t die same height for so long a time ; and
f the fidl of which neither an actual war
ith Spain, nor the danger which has been
[iggested of another with France, with
'ranee in the full possession of all its boast-
d advantages, has yetbeen able to produce
ny token. Another proof of the exubeiv
Dce of our riches, and the prosperity of
or commerce by which they are acquired^
I the facility with which the government
BUI raise in an instant the ffreatest sums,
od the low interest at wbi<£ they are ob-
iioed. If we compare our state in this
»pect with that of France, the insupera-
Se difficulties un^r which they must con«
md with us, will sufficiently discover them-
slves. It is well known, my lords, that
« have lately raised the money which the
^rvice of each year required, at the inte-
nt of three for a hundred ; nor is it likely
lat there will be any necessity of larger
iterest, though our annual demands were
> be equd to these of the last war. But
le French are well known to « raise the
ims which their exigencies require on
ery diflerent terms, and to have paid ten
\x a hundred for all the money which
leir late projects have required; projects
hich they cannot pursue lonff at' such
Dormous expence, and by which their
ountry muft in a short time be ruined,
ren without opposition.
While we can» therefore, raise three
iHlions for less than the French can ob-
lin one, and by consequence support three
igiments at me same expence as one is
supported in their service^ we haVe sufehr
BO reason to dread the superioritir of their
numbers, or to fear that they wiU conquer
by exhaustins us.
Thus, my lords, I have ddivered my
opinion wiOi freedom and impartiality;
and shall patienUy hearken to any objeo*
tiona that shall arise against it, supported
bf the consciousness, that a connitation
will only show me, that I have been inis»
taken ; but will not deprive me of the sa^
tisfittstion of reflecting, \hat I have not
been wanting to my country ; and that if
I have approved or defended improper
measures, I at least consulted no otner
interest than that of Great Britain.
Lord Heroey :
Mj lords; it is not without that
concern which every man ouffht to feel at
the apparent approach of pubuc calainitie8»
that I have heard the measures wluch are
now the subject of our enquiry so weakly
defended, when theur vindication is endea*
voured with so much ardour, and laboured
with so much address.
The objections which press upon the
mind, at the first and slightest view of our
proceedings, are such as require the doaest
attention, such as cannot b\it alarm every
man who has studied the interest of hie
country, and who sincerely endeavoura to
promote it; and therefore^ it might be
noped, that those who appear to have
tiiought them insuffident, are able to pro*
duce in opposition to them the strongest
arguments, and the dearest deductions.
When we attempt the consideration of
our present condition, and enquire by
what means our prosperi^ may be secured,
the first reflection that occurs, is, that we
are traders, that dl our power is the bon«
sequence of our wedth, and our wedth
the product of our trade. It is well known^
that trade can only be pursued under the
security of peace ; that a nation which has
a larger commerce, must make war on
disadvantageous terms agdnst one that has
less ; as or two contiguous countries, the
more fruitful has most to fear from an in-
vasion by its neighbour.
It is visible hkewise to any man who
considers the situation of Great Britain,
that there is no nation by which our trade
can in time of war be so much obstructed
^m by FMnce, of which the coasts are op*
ponte to ours, and which can send out
smdl vessels, and seiae our merdiants ia
the mouths of our hafbours, or in the
chaimd of which we boast the sovereignty :
110B]
16 6E0BGE n.
Ihbaie m ike IMis mi ialdng
[1101
■toll all Ihoie who have hetod dr mid of
tin last war, in whieb #e gainad 90 much
lamciar, iiid so little adnuitage^ know that
tiie privateers of France injured oa more
linn Ha navies or its armies ; and thaf a
thousand rictories on the continont» where
wt W«r« only contending for the rights of
Miora, wer^ a very smul recompence for
tlM ofaKtroetion of our commerce ; nor can
he feel mudi tenderness for nmnkind» who
would purchase bj the ruin and distress of
ii tfaouaand fdsoilfesy industrious and inoo-
6etkt, the momentary feetivic^ of a triumph^
nr the idle glare of an illumination.
Yety my MrdSf tiiis nation, however aea*
lous for its cotdtaerce^ is abovt to engs|^
in a war, in a war with the only state b^
which our commerce can be impaired ; it
is abMit to silpport new armies on the
teMineMt without adlies, and without trea*>
iuff#.
Tftmt we are without treasure, and that
•ur trade, by whteh only our funds can be
aumdied^ has lately been ^ery much di*
imMshed, is too easy to prove in opposi^
tion to the specious dinila^ which the
noble lord, who spoke last, nas been pleased
to make of the exuberance of our weahli.
If the libtimkmoe of our ridies be such
IS it has been represented, why are no
measures formed Ibr the payment of the
pttbKe debts > of which no man will say,
that they are not in themselves a cala-
ftfky, Aid die souRW of many csalamities
yet greater ; of which it cannot be denied,
that they multiply dependence by which
our constitution may sometunes be en*
daagered. Why at«e those debts not only
lOipaid, but increased by annual additions
to auoh a height, that the payment of them
most B6on b^ome desperate, and the pub*
lie sink nadet the burthen >
That oor trade, my lords, and b3r con-
aequenoe onr wealth, is of late dimtnislied,
VMiy be proved beyond controversy, even
to those whose intelnest it is not to believe
it, and upon whom, therefore, it cannot
be expected, that arguments will have a
Igfreat efibct. The produce of the custom^
was the last year less by half a million than
the mean revenue; and as our customs
mutt always benr a certain proportidn to
tradoi we may form an itidisputaUe esti-
mate from them of its increase or its de-
The rise of our stocks, my lords, is such
o proof of riches, as dropsical tumours are
i^ health ; it shows not l^e circulation,
but the stagnatidh, of our moneys and
though it may flatter us with • Alae ap-
pearance of plenty for a time, will soos
prove, thAt it is both the effect and cauac
of poverty, sand will end in weakness sd^
destruction*
When commerce flourishes, when h
profit is certain and secure* men will em-
ploy their money in the exchange of com
modities, by whidi greater advantage raa]
be sained, than by potting it into tL
hands of brokers ; but when every ship i
in danger of being intercepted by pnva
teers, and the insurer divides the profit a
every voyage with the merchant, it i
natural to chooae a safer, though a ksi
profitidrfe traffic; and rather to treuan
money it the funds, than expose it on the
ocean.
But, my lords, the ministers themseht!
have sufficiently declared their opioion d
the state of the national wealth, hj the
method which they have taken to raise
those supplies of which thej boast vitii
how great iacili^ they are raised.
When they found that new espeoces
rehired new taxes, it was necessary to
examine what cddid be taxed, or ^a
which part of the nation any other bar-
thens could be kid withoOt immediate
ruin. They turned over the catalogue of
aU our manufactutes, and found, that
scarcely any of the conveniencies, or eves
the necessaries of life, were withoat ao
impost. They exttnined all the classes d
our traders, and readily discovered, dt^
the greatest number of those who endei-
voured to support themselves by hooesi
industry, were struggltog with povertj,
and scarcdy able to provide to-di^ wint
would be necessary to>i»ocTOW. Tkf
saw our prisons crowded vrith debtors,
and our papers filled with the names of
bankrupts, of whom many may be sup-
posed to have miscarried without idleoess,
extravagance, or folly.
They saw, therefore, my lords, that in*
dustry must sink under any addition to its
load, a consideration which could a&i^
no proof of the abundance of our weakk
They saw tliat onr commodities would be
no longer manufiictured, if their taxai
Were increased; and therefore it was i^ I
cessary to raise money by some oclttfj
method, since all those which hare bees |
hitherto practised were precluded.
This, my lords, was no easy task : bu^
however difficult, it has been>accoaipli&be4s
mid to those great politicians must post(>;
rky be indebted for a new sdieme of siip*
plying the expences of a waf.
In the time of the bte ministiy iiM
1105]
Hanoverian Troops into British Pay.
A. D. 1748.
[llOfl
been observed, that drunkenness was be-
come a vice almost universal amons the
common people ; and that as the liquor
which they generally drank was such that
tliey could destroy their reason by a small
quantity, and at a small expence, the con-
sequence of general drunkenness was ge-
neral idleness ; since no man would work
any longer than was necessary to lay him
asleep mr the remaining part of the day.
They remarked likewise, that the liquor
which «diey generally drank was to the
last degree pernicious to health, and de-
itructive of that corporeal vigour by which
the business, of life is to be earned on;
and a law was therefore made, by which it
was intended that this species of de-
bauchery, so peculiarly fatal, should be
prerented.
Against the end of this law no man has
hitherto made the least objection ; no one
has dared to signalize hfmself as an open
advocate for vice, or attempted to prove
that drunkenness was not injurious to so-
ciety, and contrary to the true ends of
human being, llie encouragement of
wickedness of this shameful kind, wicked-
ness equally contemptible and hateful, was
reserved for the present ministry, who are
DOW about to supply those funds which
they have exhausted liy idle projects and
romantic expeditions, at the expence of
health and virtue ; who have discovered a
method of recruitine armies by the de-
struction of their fellow-subiects; and
while they boast themselves the assertors
of liberty, are endeavouring to enslave us
by the introduction of those vices, which
in all countries, and in every age, have
made way for de^tic power. -
Even tnis expedient, my lords, must in
a short time rail them ; the products of
vice as well as of commerce must in time
be exhausted ; and what will then remain i
The honest and industrious must feel the
weight of gome new imposition, which the
iagacity of experienced oppression may
find means to lay upon them*; they wiU
then first find the benefit of this new law,
since they may, by the use of tliose
liquors which are indulged them, put a
ip^edy end to that life which they made
unable to support.
The means by which the expences of
^r present designs are to be supported,
such means, my lords, as were never yet
practised by any state, however exhausted,
or however endangered, means which a
wise nation would scarcely use to repel an
iDvader fi'om the capital, or to raise works
[VOL. XII. 3;
to keep off a general inundation, faise ^et
stronger motions 6f indignation, when it ia
considered for what designs these ex-
-pences are required.
We are now, my lords, raising armies,
and hiring auxiliaries, for an expedition of
which no necessity can be discovered, and
from which neither honour nor advantagar
can be expected ; we are about* to force
from the people the last remains of theii^
property, and to harass with exactiona
those who are already languishing with
poverty ; not for the preservation of our
liberty, or the defence of our country, but
for the support of the Pragmatic Sanction^
for t!ie execution of a very unjust scheme
formed by the late kinp, to which he pur«
chased at different times, on different
emergencies, tlie concurrence of other
powers ; but to which he failed to put the
last seal of confirmation, perhaps in hopei
of a male heir, and left tne dcsi^, which
he had so long and so industriously Ia«
boured, to be at last completed by tlie
kindness of his allies ; having, by an un«
successful war against the Turks, ex-
hausted his treasure, and weakened hie
troops.
Whether we shall now engage in thia
design : whether we shall, for the defenc*
of the Pragmatic Sanction, begin another
war on the continent, of which the dara«
tion cannot be determined, the expence
estimated, or the event foreseen; whe-
ther we shall contend at once with all the
princes of the House of Bourbon, and en^
tangle ourselves in a labyrinth of different
sehemes; whether we shall provoke
France to interrupt our commerce, and
invade our colonies, and stand without the
assistance of a single ally asainst those
Sowers that lately set almost m Europe at
efiance, is now to be determined by your
lordships.
It can scarcely be expected, that the
French will treat us only as auxiliaries',
and satisfy themselves with attacking us
only where they find themselves opposed
by us ; they will undoubtedly, my lords,
consider us as principals, since they can
suffer little more by declaring war against
us.
These, my lords, are the dangers to be
feared from thfe measures which we are
now persuaded to pursue ; but persuaded
by arguments which, in my opinion, ought
to have very little influence upon us, and
which have not yet been able, however
artfully or zealdhsly enforced, to prevail
upon the Dutch to unite with us.
1107]
16 GEORGE IL
DehaU in ike Lmb an UJing
[HOB
It haSy indeed, been asserted, that the
t)utch appear inclined to assist us : but of
that inclination stronger proofs ought
surely to be produced, before we take
auxiliaries into pay, and transport troops
into anotlier countrji which have been so
oflen represented to have been raised for
the defence of their own, or collect money
from, the public by the propagation of
wickedness.
Of this favourable inclination in the
Dutdi I am the more doubtful, because it
is^ contrary to the expectations of all man-
kind, and to the maxims by which they
have generally regulated their conduct.
There have been many late instances of
their patient submission to the invasion of
privileges to which they have thought
themselves entitled, and of their preference
pf peace, though sometimes purchased
with the loss of honour ; or, what may be
supposed to touch a Dutchman much more
nearly, of profit, to the devastation and
^xpence and hazards of war; and it can
hardly be supposed by any who know their
character, that they will oe more zealous
for the rights of otners than for their own ;
9r that they will, for the support of the
queen of Hungary, sacrifice that security
and tranquillity which they have preferred
at th^ expence of their commerce at one
time, and by passive submission to insults
at another.
That a nation like this, my lords, will in
the quarrel of another engage in any but
moderate measures, is not to be expected :
it is not improbable, that they may endea-
vour by embassies and negociations to ad-
just the present disputes, or offer their
mediation to the contending powers; but
I am ver}r &r from imagimn^, that they
will find in themselves any (usposition to
raise armies, or equip fleets, that they will
endanger the barrier which has been so
dearly purchased, or expose themselves to
the hazards and terrors of a French war ;
pd am, therefore, inclined to believe, that
if any tendency towards such measures
n6w appears, it is only the effect of die
present heat of some vdiement declaimers,
or the secret machination of some artful
projectors among them, who have formed
chimerical plans of a new system of £u-
irope, and nave in their imi^inations regu-
lated the distribution of dominion and
power, or who perhaps have diminished
their patrimonies by negligence and extra-
)^|gance, and hope to repair them in times
of confusion, and to glean part of that har-
vest of treasure wbidi^the public aust be
obliged to yield in time of war. I amstiO
inclined to believe, that the true intereft
of the republic will be consulted, diat po-
licy will prevail over intri^e, and tost
only moderate measures will be pursued
by the general council of the states.
Moderate measures, my lords, if not al-
ways the most honourable in the opinion
of minds vitiated by false notions of grao-
deur, are at least always the most safe ;
and are, therefore, eligible at least, tlQ the
scene of affiurs begins to open, and ths
success of a more vigorous conduct may
with some d^ree of certamty be fore*
known; and it must at least be thought
imprudent for those to hazard mudi who
can gain notiimg, and therefore it will not
be easy to assign any reason that may jus-
tify our conduct on the present occasion.
It is not improbable, my lords, that
those who have now obtained the direction
of our afifurs, may be influenced by ths
general disapprobation which die Britisfa
people show^ of the pacific condactof
the late ministry, and may have resoked
to endeavour after applause, by showing
more spirit and activity. But, my lords,
of two opposite schemes it is not impossi-
ble that both may be wrong, and that tfat
middle way only may be safe ; nor is it
uncommon for those who are precipitately
flying from one extreme, to rush blindly
upon another.
But our ministry, my lords, have foond
out a method of complicating errors which
none of their predecessors, noweter stig-
matised for ignorance and absurdly, hava
hitherto been able to attain; they have
been able to reconcile the extremes ff
folly, and to endanger the public interest
at Uiesame time, by inactivity and roman-
tic temerity.
No accusation against the late ministry
was more general, more atrocious, or mora
adapted to incense the people, than that
of neglecting the war against SpaSn : ^
was the subject of all the invecnves whidi
were vented agahist them in parlittnent,
or dispersed among the people; for
this they were charged with a secret con-
federacy against their country, with dis-
regard of its commerce and its arms, and
with a design to ruin the nation for fio
other end than to punhh the merchants. .
To this accusation, my lords, dil^otly
propagated, willingly received, and, to
confess the trath, confirmed by some ap-
pearances, do tbose owe their power, who
now preside over the alftirs of the natioD;
and it might, ^erefoi!^, hafe'beeh bope4
Hanaoerian Troqps |Wq British Pay*
iipp:j
bat bjr their promotion, one of our griev*
mces would have been taken away, and
hat at least the war against Spain would
lave beep vigorously prosecuted.
But thia muiistry, my lords, have only
tirnishei^ a new instance of the credulity
oi manlundy of the delusion of outward
ij^peacancjes, and of the folly of hoping
nith too great ardour for any event, and
of truatiog any man with too great confi-
dence, tio sooner were they possessed of
the power to .^hich their ambition had so
tone aspirecl, and of the salaries which
haa wito so much eagerness been coveted
by their avarice, than they forgot the com-
plaints of the j;nerchants, the value of com-
merce, the honour of the Britiiih flag, the ,
danger of our American territories, and
the great importance of the war with Spain,
and contented themselves with ordering
convoys for our merchants, instead of de-
strojring the enemy b v whom they are mo-
lested.— The fleets wnich are floating from
one coast to another in the Mediterranean,
and which sometimes strike terror into the
harpaless inhabitants of an open coast, or
threaten, t)ut only threaten, destruction to
an unfortified town, I am very far from
considering as armai^ents fitted out against
the Spaniards, who neither feel nor fear
any great iiijuiy from them : their trade
may oe, indeed, somewhat impeded ; but
that inconvenience is amply compensated
by their depredations upon our merchants :
their navies may be confined to their own
ports, or to .those of France ; but these
navies i^re npt very necessary to them,
since they are not bufficiently powerful to
oppose us on the ocean; and therefore
they who are thus confined, sufier less
than those who confine them. We have,
indeed, the empt^ pleasure of seeing our-
selves lords of the sea, an^ of shaking the
coasts with vollies of our cannon ; but we
purchase the triumph at a very high price,
and shall find ourselves in time weakened
by a useless ostentation of superiority.
The onlj^ parts of the Spanish domi-
nions ifx which they can receive any hurt
fiom our forces, are those countries which
they possess in America, and from which
they receive the gold and sOver which ui-
flame their pride, and incite them to in-
sult nations more pow^ul than them-
selves. Bj seizing any part of those
wealthy regions, we shafl stop the foun-
tain or their treasure, reduce them to im^
mediate penury, and compel them to solir
,citpe9Qe uppn any conditions tb^yre shall
cpod^end tp o^ them.
, A. D. 174S.. [1110
Th^ necessity of invading these 'coun-
tries, my lords, was perfecUy understood^
and vei^ distinctly explained, whe);i tBb
forces destined for that expedition werS
delayed, and when the ittempt at Cartha-
§ena miscarried ; nothing was more pa^
^etical than the complaints of diepatriota^
who spared no labour to inform either ihi^
parliament or the natioh of the advantages
which success would have procured. But
what mesisures Have been taken to repait
our losses, or to regain our honour; or
what new schemes have been formed kt
making an attack more forcible upon som^
weaker part ? '
Every one can remember, that phe m!8>»
carnage of that enterprise was imputed not
to its difficulty, nor to the couragie of thfe
Spaniards, nor to the strength of thefr
works, but to the unskilfulness of our of-
ficers, and the impropriety of the season ;
and it was, therefore, without doubt
thought not impossible to attack the. Spa-
nish colonies with success ; but why then,
my lords, have they hitherto suflered the
Spaniards to discipline their troops, and
strehethen their works at leisure, that at
length they may securely set us at defiancjO,
andplunder our merchants without fear of
vengeance ? ^
"nius, my lords, has our real interest
been neglected in pursuit not of any othiir
scheme of eoual advantage, but of ijtic
empty title or the arbiters of Europe ; in^e
have suffered our trade to be destroyed,
and our country impoverished, for the^saks
of holding the balance of power ; thit
variable balance, in which fofty and ambi-
tion are perpetually changing die weights,
and which neither policy nor str£gth
could yet preserve steady for a single
year. ^ ^ ^
In the prosecution of this idle scheme,
we are about to violate all the maxims of
wisdom, and perhaps of Justice; we are
about to destroy the end by the means
wliich we make use of to profnote it, to
endanger our country more by attempting
to hinder the changes which are projectda
in Europe, than their accomplishment will
endanger it, and to deliver up ourselves to
PVance before she makes any demand of
submission from us.
If ftny excuse could be made for expe-
ditions so likely to end in ruin, it must be
that justice required them; and that if we
suffer, we at least suffer in support of right,
wai in an honest endeavour to promote the
execution of the great laws of moral eouity ;
thai if we fait of success, we shall alwa^t
nil]
16 GBORGC XL
Debate in the Lards an taking
[1112
have the consolation of having meant wdl,
and of havinff deserved those victories
which we couB not gain.
But, iqpon an impartial survey of the
pause in which we are going to engage,
and on which we are about to hazard our
own happiness, and that of our posterity,
I can aiscover no such apparent justice
on the side of the queen of Hungary, as
ought to incite distant nations to espouse
her quarrel, to raise armies in her favour,
to consider her cause as that of human jia-
ture, and to prosecute those that invade
her territories, as the enemies of general
society.
The Pragmatic Sanction, my lords, hj
which she claims all the hereditary domi-
nions of her family, cannot change the
nature of right and wrong, nor invalidate
any claim before subsisting, unless by the
consent of the prince by whom it was
made. The elector of Bavaria may there-
fore ur^e in his own defence, that by the
elder sister he has a clear and indisputable
right, a right from which he never receded,
as he never concurred in the Pragmatic
Sanction; he may therefore charge this
Qlustrious princess, for whom so manv
troops are raised, and for whom so much
blood is about to be shed, with usurpation,
with detention of the dominions of other
potentates, and with an obstinate assertion
of a false title.
That the Pragmatic Sanctionisgeneralhr
understood to be unjust, appears suffi-
ciently from the conduct of those powers
who, though engaged by solemn stipula-
tions to support it, yet look unconcerned
on the violation of it, and appear convinc-
ed, that the princes who are now dividing
among themselves the Austrian dominions,
produce claims which cannot be opposed
without a manifest disregard of justice.
The pretensions of these princes ought
indeed to have been more attentively con-
sidered, when this guaranty was first de-
manded ; for it is evident, that either no
such compact ought to have been made,
or that it ought now to be observed; and
that those who now justify the neglect of
it, by urging its injustice, ought to have
refused accession to it for the same rea-
son. But it is probable, that they will
urge in their defence, what cannot easily
be confuted, that their consent was obtain-
ed by misre{)resentations ; and that he
who has promised to do any thing on the
supposition that it is right, is not bound by
that promise, when he has discovered it to
l>e wrong.
But thoueh justice may, my lords, be
pretended, I am far from^ doubting, thsi
policy has in reality supplied the modres
upon which these powers proceed. Since
the world is evidently governed mofe by
interest than virtue, I think it not unrea^
"sonable to imagine, that they form their
measures according to their own ezp^.
tioas of advantage; and as I do not beliere
our countrymen distinguished from the
rest of mankind by any peculiar disregard
of themselves, it ma^ not be improper to
examine, even in this plaoe^ whether by
restoring the House of Austria to its an-
cient greatness, we shall promote our own
happiness, or that of the kingdom, or of
the rest of Europe.
To ourselves, my lords, I do not see
what assistance can be given in time of
danger by this House, howBver powerful,
or however friendly; for I suppose we
shall never suffer it to grow powerful by
sea as well as by land, and hj sea ooJj
can we receive benefits or injuries.
What advantages the rest of Europe
may promise themselves from the reston«
tion of the Austrian power, may be learn-
ed, my lords, from the history of the em-
peror Charles the fifth, who for maoy yean
kept the world in continual alanns, ranged
Trora nation to nation with incessant and
insatiable ambition, made war onljr for ihe
extinction of the Protestant religion, and
employed his power and his abilities in
harassing the neighbouring princes, and
disturbing the tranquillity of mankind.
Nor did his successors, my Icnrds, though
weakened by the division of his dominions,
enjoy their power with greater modera-
tion, or exert it to better purposes. It is
well known, that they endeavoured the
sybversion of both the liberties and rdi-
gion of the subordinate states of the em-
pire, and Uiat the king of Sweden was
called into Germany, as well Ibr the pre-
servation of the Protestant religion, as of
the rights of the electors.
This, my lords, is so generally known
and confessed, that Pufl^doj^, the best
writer on the German constitution, his
declared it disadvantageous to the empire
to place at its head a prince too powofbl
b^ his hereditary dominions, since thej
will always furnish him with force to op-
press the weaker princes ; and it is not
often found, that he who has the power to
oppress, is restruned by principles of JQs-
tice.
It appears therefi>re to me, my lords.
thai the late election ofan emperor wis
113]
Hdnoverian Troops into British Pay»
A.D. 1743/
[111«
lade with sufficient regard to the general
ood; aad that there&re neither policy
or equity oblige us to act in a manner
ifferentfrom the other powers who are
>ined in the same engagements, of whom
do not learn by any of tlie common chan-
els c£ intelilgenccy that any of them in-
cnd the support of the Pragmatic Sanc-^
ion : for no newspaper or pamphlet has
et informed us, that any of tne other
towers are hiring auxiliaries, or regulating
he march of their troops, or makmg any
mcommon preparations, which may fore-
oken an expedition against the emperor
fr his allies.
Yet, my lords, they are not restrained
rom attacKing the emperor by so strong
objections as may be made to the present
lesign ; for they owe him no obedience as
heir sovereign, nor have contributed to
he acquisition of his honours; they have
lot, like his majesty, given their votes for
lis exaltation to the imperial seat, nor
lare acknowledged his right by granting
lim an aid. They might, therefore, with-
mt charge of disloyalty or inconsistency,
mdeavour to dethrone him ; but how his
najesty can engage in any such design,
ifter having zeaJously promoted his ad-
vancement, and confirmed his election by
Jie usual acknowledgment, I am not able
0 understand.
It is evident, that the king of Pjrussia
)elieves himself restrained by tiis own acts,
ind thinks it absurd to fight against an em-
)eror who obtained the throneby his choice;
le therefore has, with his usual wisdom,
efused to engage in the confederacy, nor
lave either promises or concessions been
ible to obtain more from him than a bare
neutrality.
Whether indeed any more than aneu-
rality be intended even by this pompous
iraiament, ibr which we are now required
0 provide, I may be allowed to doubt ;
ince the troops that ait hired at so hieh
1 rate are sucn as cannot act against the
inemies of the queen of Hungary, without
)reachof the imperial constitutions.
It has been already justly observed in
his debate, that when the emperor has
)btained from the diet an aid of fifty
nonths, that act is considered as an au-
Jientic recognition of his title : nor can
3Dy of the German princes afterwards
cnake war against him, without subjecting
bis dominions to the imperial interdict,
ind losing the privileges or his sovereign^.
That the present emperor has already
received this acknowkogmenty and been
confessed by his malesty, as elector of'
Hanover^ to be legauy invested with the
imperial dignity, is well known; and
therefore 1 cannot by any method of rea^
soning discover, nor have yet found any
man able to inform me, why the troops of
Hanover are chosen brfore those of any
other nation, for a design which Uiey can^*
not execute without ruining their save*
reign if they fail ; and infringing the cmi*
stitution of the empire, if they should hap*
pen to succeed.
I should therefore have imaeined, that
the assistance of the queen of Hungary
was only pretended, and that the forcei ^
were onl^ designed to breathe the air of
the contment, and to display their scarlet
at the expence of Great Britain, had not
the noble lord who spoke third m tl^s dd*
bate informed us, that they will in reality
march into Germany ; a design, my lordi;
so romantic, unseasonable, and dangerous,
that though I cannot doubt it after suck
assurances, I should not have believed it on
any other ; a design which I hope every
man who regards the welfare of tnis king-
dom will indefatigably oppose, andwhioi
every Englishman must wish that some
lucky accident may frustrate.
To send an army into Germany, my
lords, is to hazard our native country
without necessity, without temptation,
without prospect or possibility or advan-
tage ; it IS to engage in a quarrel whidi
has no relation to our dominions, or rights,
or commerce; a quarrel from which, how-
ever it be decided, we can neither hope
for any encrease of our wealth, our force,
or our influence ; but which may involve
us in a war without end, in which it will be
difficult to obtain the victory, and in which
we must yet either conquer or be undone.
Surely, my lords, an expedition like this
was never undertaken before, without con-
sulting parliament, and declaring the mo-
tives on which it was designed: sorely
never was any supply of this nature de-
manded, without some previous discoveries
to this House of the importance of ttie
service for which they were required to
provide. On this'occasion, my lords, all
the counsels of the government are covered
by a cloud of affected secrecy, nor is any
knowledge of our afikirs to be gained, but
from papers whidi are not to be r^rded
here, the prmted votes of the other House.
I am always, my lords, inelined to sus-
pect unusual secrecy, and to imagine, that
men either conceal their measures, bc-
cailse they cannot defend them ; or afi^ct
li|53 16 QEORGG U.
Debaifi i» the Lenb o» taking
[im
iP ^ppjMirai^y of conqealuig tfaeto, when
IP rwity tbey Uave yet projected nothiag;
find draw tbe veil with uncommon care,
only lest it should be diaopvered that d^re
ia ^aolhing behind it ; as when palaces are
l^owA, those apartments which are /empty
^0 c^re^ly lacked up.
To coD^ my cpinion without reservep
I fUB nQt BO mijich mdined^o believe, that
i^ ministers' designs ^e bad, as that they
deamk nothing; and suspect that this
mighty army, so lavishly paid, and col-
^ted firi^m such d^taat partjs, is to regu-
late its motions b;^ accictsnt^ and to w«i^
ivi^out action, tdl ^m» change in the
^at^ of Europe shall make it more ea^fo^
|Hir roinisten to form their scheme.
I hope, my lords, that bv some accident
ipoie ^vourable than we have at present
f^ffHSon to expect, our Qerman expedition
yriil be retailed, till our ministers shall
jwi^n from their present dream of dc^-
jUvering Europe from French ambition,
^d of restoring the ancient greatness of
^ihB Houie of Austrifu I hope every day,
MB it addir to their experience, w^ dip^nish
' 4hat ardour which is generally the effect
jOf imperfect views, which is commonly,
raised by p^rt^al considerations, and enqs
pk inconsiderate undertakings. I hope
l^ey will, in time think it no advantage to
their fallow-subjects to be doomed to fight
tbe battles of other nations, fuul to be
. called out into every field, where they shall
bappen.to hear that blood is to be shed^
I nope the^ will be taught, that the on||y
J)usiness ot Great Britain is commerce ;
«nd that while our ships pass unmoles^d,
we m^y sit at ease, whatever be the de-
signs or actions of the potentates on t^e
. continent ; that none but naval power can
endanger ours^ety, and that it is not ne-
cessary for us to enquire, how foreign ter-
litories are distributed, wh^t famuy ap-
prpacbes to its extinction, or where a suc-
cessor will be found to any other croifn
than that of Great Britain.
If these maxims were once gener^Iy
understood, from how much perplexity
would our coun^ls be set free? How
inany thousands of our fellow-subjects
would be preserved from slaughter i and
how much would our wealth be encreased
by saving those sums which are yearly
squandered in idle expeditions, or in n^e-
gociations equally useless, and perhaps
equally expensive ? Had diese pnnciples
been received by our fprefathers, we might
now have given laws to the world» and
perhaps our posterity will with equal rsi^-
fonsav, How happy, how mt, sod for-
midable they should have beon, bad not
we attemnted to fix and to hold the
balanqe or power^ and neglected the io-
te^est of our country for the preservatioo
of the House of Au^trial
Thusy mv lords, I have endeavoured to
explain and enforce my pinion of tbe
measures in which our ministen have en-
gaged the nation; and tune, that I %M
not be accused of being Infiuenced in mj
determinations by personal prejudices,
nor of having changed my opinions vitb
xegard to piiUic afiairs, in consequence of
any chance of the persons by whom ikj
are conmcted. For if my sentime&ti
have ev^ been thought important enoa<l
to be retained in memory, I can, with the
utmost omfiaence, appeal to all those who
can recdlect what I have foraierl? said,
when the re-establishment of the Hoos
o£ Austria was the subject of our consuha*
tions ; and defy the meet risoroos and it-
tentive examiner oimj conauct, to prore,
that there ever was a time, in which I
thoi^ht it necessary or expedient for the
Briti^ nation to be entangled m dispotei
on the continent, or to employ her ana
in regulating the pretensions <i conte&d-
ingpowers.
I was always of opinion, my lords, tint
peace is the most eiigtble state, sod M
the ease of security is to be preferred t»
the honour of victory. I always thou^
peace particularlv necessary to a trad^
people : and as 1 have yet found no lo*
son to ^alter my sentiments, and as aoxilii'
ries cannot be of any use but in time of
war, I shall endeavour to promote peaos
by joining in the motion.
The Earl of Chdmondek^f :
My lords; notwithstanding tbe
atrocious charges which hav# been arg£)i
with so much vehemence against tbe mi-
nistry ; notwith|tanding the folly and ab-
surdity which some noble lords haVe is^
gined themselves to have discovered in the
present measures, 1 cannot yet pref^
upon myself, whatever may be mj veifr
ration for their integrity, or my coifidetfe
in their abilities, to approve the motion fir
which th^ so earnest^ contend.
To comply with this motion, vaj loids.
would be, in my opinion, to betray^
general cause of mankind, to interrupt the
success of the assertors of liberty, to gi«
up all the continent at once fo toe Bouie
of Bourbon, to defeat all thcmeasures ot
our ances^s and ourselvesi jand to iontt
if] Hdhwerian ihn^ into Brithh-Pay, A* T>* 174S.
[1II8
} oppresstfrK of iriankind to eitend their
isD& of universal dominion to the inland
Great Britain.
Of the measures which we are now to
n^er, I think the defence at once ob-
Kis and nnanswerable ; and should ad-
le, that instead of exerting an nsdess
jacity in uncertain conjectures on fn-
re events, or displaying unseasonable'
lowledge by the citation of authorities,
the recollection of ancient facts, every
Ue lord should attentively compare the
de into which Europe was reduced soon
jtx the death of the late emperor, with
It in ?rhich it now appears ; and enquure
what causes such sudden and important
■ngesare to be ascribed. He will then
s3y discover the e£Bcacy of the British
easures ; and be convinced, that nothing
ibeen omitted which the interest of this
^on required.
When I hear it asked by the noble
ids, what efGscts have been produced by
or armaments and expences? For what
d auxifiaries are hired, and why our
imes are transported into Flanders ? I
iftnot but su^ect, my lords, that this af-
etadon of ignorance is only intended to
ritate their opponents ; that they sup-
ren facts with which they are well ac-
pinted, only that they may have an op*
ortunity of giving vent to their passions,
I displaying their ima^nation m artful
iroaches, and exerasmg their elo-
Bence in splendid declamations. I be-
Bve they hide what they know where to
Dd,only to oblige others to the labour of
rodacing it : and ask i]|uestions not be-
UMe they want or desire mformation, but
Bcause they hope to weary those whose
itioos condemn them to the task of an-
tnering them.
The effects, my lords, which the assis-
Oice given by us to the queen of Hun-
py have already produced, are the reco-
ery of one kingdom, and the safety of the
M ; the exclusion of the Spaniards from
toly on the one part, and on the other
te confinement of them in it, without
Uier the supplies for war, or the neces-
iriesofUfe.
These, my lords, are surely great ad-
SDtages ; but these are not the greatest
rluch we have reason to hope. Our vi-
our and resolution have at last animated
lie Dutch to suspend for a time their at-
Ention to trade and money, and to consi-
ifir what they seldom much regard, the
tate of other nations ; tlie most rich and
<nretful of their provinces have already
determined to concuf in the ve-establiaii*
ment of the House of Austria; and if the
approbation of the rest be neoestery, it i*^
likely to be obtained by the same aaetibodt
of proceeding.
Thus, my lords, we have a proopeci of
doing that which the ministers ox oueen
Anne, #hose fidelity, wisdom, andaadrest
have been so often and so invidioosly eom-i
mended, thought their greatest honour^
c(hd the strongest proof of their abilities.
We may soon form another confederacy
against the House of Bourbon, at a tirao
wnen Louis 14 is not at its head, at a
time when it is exhausted by expensiv#
proiects; and when, therefore, it cannot
make the same resistance as when it waa
before attacked.
By pursuing the scheme which is no#
formed!, with steadiness and ardour, we
ma;^ perhaps reinstate all those nations in
their liberties, whom cowardice, or n^li-
gence, or credulity, have, during the hst
century, delivered up to the ambitioa of
FVance: wemay confine that swelling mo^
narchy, which has from year to year torn
down die boundaries of its neighbours^
within its ancient limits, and disable it for
a^es from giving an^ new alarms to man*
land, and from making any other effbrta
for the acquisition of universal dominion;
we may re-estabUah the House of Austria
as the great barrieir of the world, hj which
it is preserved on one part from being laid
waste by the barbarity of the Turks, and
on the other from being enslaved by po-
liter tyrants, and over-run by the ambition
of France.
Elevated with such success, and encou-
raged by such prospects, we ought surely,
my lords, to press forward in a Pfttn.
wnere we have nitherto found no difficul-
ties, and which leads directly to solid
peace and happiness, which no dangers or
terrors can hereafter interrupt : we ought,
instead of relaxing, to redouble our efforts;
and to remember, that by exerting all our
strength and all our influence for a short
time, we shall not only secure ourselves
and our posterity from insolence and op-
pression, but shall establish the tranquil-
lity of the world, and promote the general
felicity of the human species.
For these great purposes, my lords, are
those auxiliaries retained, of which some
lords now require the dismission, and
those armies' transported, which part of
the nation is by false reports inclined to
recal ; but I hope that sudh unreasonably
demands will not be gratifiedyju^d that 4ha
1189]
16 GEORGE IL
DeiMU in the Lordi <m teij^f
tim
. The reftMn indeed, lor which ihk ttipa*
lation waa made, a|>peared 6o stitHig, when
It wM conatdered in the ccnxDcil, that it
waa unanimouely determined neoeaaary;
|ior waa the conclusion hastily made in an
iaaanMy of particular pmvonSi who might
be auapectea of favouring it from private
views, and of being convened on purpose
to put it in execution ; it was debatea by
• great number with great solemnity ; nor
can any man aay, that he only yielded to
what he found it in vain to oppose ; for
the consent given was not a tacit acqui-
eacence, but a verbal approbation* So
tar was this part of oar measures from
being the advice of any single man,
or tranaacted with that solicitous secrecy
which is the usual refuse of bad designs.
It has been asserted likewise, my ferds,
•ad with much greater appearance of jus*
tice, that this whole design has been form-
ed and conducted without the concurrence
ar approbation of parliament ; and that
Aeretore it can be considered only as a
private scheme to be executed at the pub-
lic expence, as a plan formed by the mi-
nistry to aggrandiae or ingratiate diem-
aelves at the hazard of the nation.
But even this, my lords, is a' misrepre-
sentation, though a misrepresentation
more artful, and more difficult to defeat ;
because, in order to the justification of
our measures, it is necessary to take a
review of past transactions, and to consi-
der what was necessarily implied by former
determinations of parliament.
The period, my lords, to which this
consideration will necessarily carry us
back, is the time at which, after the late
tedious war, a peace was, on whatever
terms, concluded with France. It is well
known, that the confederates demanded,
among other advantages, a cession of that
part of Flanders which had been for many
years in the possession of Spain, and whidd
S«ned a way by which the ambition of
e House of Bourbon might make inroads
at pleasure into the dominions of either
the Austrians or Dutch. This they were
immediately interested in preventing ; and
as we knew the necessity of preserving
^ equipoise of power, we likewise were
lemotely engaged to promote any mea-
am-es by which it might be secured. In
mktts demand, therefore, all the confederate
-powers naturally united, and by their
United influence enforced compliance.
But though it was easy with no great pro-
fcndity of political knowledge to discover
from whom th^oe ,proviacea should be
taken away, to whom they ^O^fefm
was a 4)ae8tion of more diffieaky; ano*
thay mighuadd to the penrer ttist kad
opportunities of improving them, nA ai
increase of commerce and weaithasaiiriii
defeat the end for which they wereoe-
manded, and destroy the balance of pover
by transferring too much weiefat iDtoan»>
ther scale. And mankiBd has lesiped,
my lords, by experience, that ezorbitast
power will alwavs produce exoibkiit
pride; that very tew, when they can op*
press with security, will be contained
within the bounds of eqai^ b^r the le-
straints of morality or of rdima; and
^that therefore the only method of esta*
blishing a ksting pesiDe is to divide potrer
ao ecjuaOy, ^at no party may have anj
oertam prospect of advantage by aiaioBg
war upon another.
For this reason, my lords, it waiippa-
rently contrary to our interest to fiait
those proviacas to thoae to whon by tbor
situation they might have been mort j»
fuL Such countries, and such maBoiac»
tores in the hlnids of a people vened
perhaps beyond ail others, both ia da
science and the stratagems of trade, and
always watchful to improve every op*
portunity of increasing tneir riches, wotud
have enabled them in a short time lo par-
chase an interest in the councils of all tlie
monarchs of the world, to have maiotaio-
ed fleets that might have covered tbe
ocean, and to have obtained that oniver-
sal dommion to which the Frendi hmtt
long aspired, and .which, it is periwpi
more for the interest of mankind, Ok
if slavery cannot be prevented, they sboold
obtam, as they would perhaps use (heir
power with more generosity.
The same reason, b^ lords, sahiraBy
naade the Dutch unwitting to put thae
provinces in the hands of Great Britaio;
for we likewise make a profesnonofuade,
though we do not pursue it with the sxn*
ardour, or, to confess the truth, with the
same success: it wais not however to be
imagmed, that there woidd not be found
among us some men of sagacity to discen,
and of industry to improve the opportom*
ties which the new dominiooa would bt»e
put into our hands d veodiag our omdii-
factures in parts, -where at pTCseot thqf
are very little Tcnown. Nor was this the
only danger to -be feared from »iA w
increase of dominion : the Dutch hafc not
yet forgotten, that though ve at ^
rescued them from slaveryi .palrsais^ ^
in&ocy <if their state,. aaA mf^^ ^
[iSSj
Hmtneriait Troopt tnfp Britith Pay.
A. IX 1748..
fllSf
jttardiaiiBhy» .till it wm grown up to«M^
(urity* mad •nabled to support itaelf by
its own streagtb, yet we afterwanb imtda
rer J vigorous attempt tp reduce it to iti
»riginiU weftknesSy and to auik it into put
pUage agarn; that we attempted to invade
Ihe iQ09t cwential part of its righto, and
to presGribe the number of ships that it
should maintain* They know likewise,
my lordsy that by the natural rotation of
human Bffiurs, the same counsels may in
some future rei^n be again pufsued, . ov
that some unavoidable conflict of interest
may produce a contest that can be decided
only by tbe sword ; and then it may easily
be perceived, how much they would tie
enoaogered by the neighbourhood of Bri-
tish garrisons, and of countries, where we
might maintain numerous armies at a very
small expence. It is therefore no subject
of wonder, that a nation much less subtle
than tbe Dutdi should find out how much
it was their interest, that we should be
confined within the li^iit^ of our own
idand ; and that we shouJd not have it
fai our power to attack th^n with armies
as well as fleets, and at once to obstruct'
thdr commerce and invade their country.
There remained, therefore, my lorcls,
no power bat tbe emperor to whom these
provinces could be consigned ; and to him,
therefore^ they were given, but given only
in trust for the joint advantage of the
whole confederacy; be inde^ enjojFS
their revenueiB on condition, that he shall
support the garrisons necessary to their
defence : but he cannot transfer them to
any other power, or alienate them to the
detriment of those nations who concurred
in acquiring diem.
It may not be improper, my lords, to
observe, that on tfau contract depends the
justice of our conduct with regard to the
<toropany established at Ostend for carry-
ing on a trade to the East Indies* These
provinces were granted to the confederate
powers, aiid consigned to the emperor to
be enjoyed bv him for the common bene-*
fit ; it was, therefore, plainly intended by
this coB^ract, that he should use none of
the advantages which these new dominions
afforded him, to the detriment of those
powers bv whose gift he enjoyed them ;
^ could it he supposed, that the Dutch
^d British debarred each other from
Aoce opportunities of trade, only to enable
^ emperor to rival them both*.
The towns, therefore, my lords, were
atthistiaiedetermiaed by parliament to
bediegffaoialpxopefty afiU tbe coafe-
deflate powers, aoquired by th^ir united
arnis, ioA to be preserved for their contH
mon advantage, as the pledge of peacs^
and the palladium of Europe. If, there^
fore, it should at any tune happen, tha^.
they should be endangered either by the
weakness or neglect of any one of thoat •
powers, the rest are to. exert their righi^
and endeavour their preservation and so*
curity; nor is there any new stipulatioi
or law necessary for this; since with re-
Sect to the confederates it is implicjd ia
e original stipulation, and with r^ard
to the parliament of Great Britain, in
the approbation which was bestowed upon
that contract when it was m^de.
The time, my lords, in which this coia*
laon right is to* be exerted is new arrived $
the queen of Hungary, invaded in her her
reditary dominions, and pressed on eveiv
side by a general combinatioA of almost at|
the surrounding princes, declares herself
no longer able to support the garrisons of
the barrier, and informs us, that she in-
tends to recal her troops for the defenof
of their own country. What then is moff
apparent, my lords, than that either these
towns must fall again into the hands of dia
French, and that we shall be obliged to
recover them, if they can ever be recof
vered, at the expence of another ten yeaif
war, or that either we or the Dutch mus|
send troops to supply the place of those
which the necessities of their sovereign
oblige her to withdraw.
That the towns of Flanders should be
resigned gratuitously to France, that the
enen^ies of mankind should h^ put in pos«
session of the strongest bulwarks in the
world, surrounded by fields and pastures
able to maintain their garrisons without
expence, will not be proposed by any of
this House. But it may easily and natu*
rally be objected, that the Dutch ought to
garrison these towns as more nearly inte^
rested in their preservation, and more com*
modiously situated for their defence ; nor
can it be, indeed, denied, that the Dutch
vdm;^ be justly censured for their neglect»
as they ^pear to leave the common cause
to our protection, and to prefer their com^
merce and their ease to tlieir own s^elgf
^d the happiness of the world.
This, my lords, has been very warmlgr
asserted iA their own assemblies, nor have
there been wanting men of spirit and in*
tegrity amongst them who have despised
the gold and promises, and detected the
artifices of France; who have endeayoure4 ^
by aU the iffts of mg ument fmd persuasion
I18T]
16 GEORGE IL
to route dieir countrymen to
of their former danger, and to an enquirj
into Uieir real interest ; who have adyised
the levy of new forces, and the eetabliih-
ment of a new confederacy ; who have
called upon the state to fiice danger while
it is yet distant, and to secure weir own
country by |>ouring their j^arrisons into the
towns and citadels by which their firontiers
ar6 protected.
Ir their arguments, however just, have
not yet attained their end, it is to be im-
puted to the constitution embarrassed by
the combination of different interests,
which must be reconciled, before any re-
solution can be formed ; a single town, my
lords, can by refusing its consent put a
atand to the most necessary designs, and it
is easily to be imagined, that by a monarch
equally crafly and rich, a single town may
aometunes be bribed into measures con-
trary to the public interest
But, my lords, the negligence of the
Dutch is a motive which ought to incite us
to vigour and dispatch ; since it is not for
the sake of the Dutch but ourselves, that
we desire the suppression of France. If
the Dutch are at length convinced of the
ease of slavery, and think liberty no longer
worth the labour of preserving it, if t&y
are tired with the task of labouring for the
happmess of others, and have forsucen the
■tand on which thev were placed, as the
S^neral watoh of tne world, to indulge
emselves in trancjuillity and slumbtf , let
not us, my lords, give way to the same in-
fiituation ; let not us look with nefflect on
the deluse that rolls towards us tOl it has
advancea too far to be resisted. Let us
remember^ that we are to owe our preser-
vation only to ourselves, and redouble our
efforts in proportion as others neglect their
duty. Let us show mankind, that we are
neiUier afraid to stand up alone in defence
of justice and of freedom, nor unable to
mamtaip the cause that we hiive under-
taken to assert
But if it should be thought by any of
your lordships, that the concurrence of^the
Dutoh is absolutely necessary to a prospeet
of success, it may he reasonably answered,
that by engaging in measures which can
leave no doubt m either our power or our
aincerity, the concurrence of the Dutoh is
most likely to be obtained. By this me-
thod of proceeding, my lords, was formed
the last mighty confederacy, by which the
House of Oourbon was almost shaken into
ruins. The Dutch then, as now, were
plow in their detemuDatiopsy and perfaqw
JDsMe Ml IfteXorvb on teisiy [lUBI
eqiaJly digdent oT tlieir ofwn at WMlh and
our finnnass^ nor did tlMy agree to oedava
war against Franoe, till we Ind tranaported
10,000 men into Flanders, and conviDoed
then, that we were not invidiiR thena to a
mvitHiff
mock alliance; butthatwerera:
i eoBpiFeii
without]
long extended itsdf without internnition»
and threatened in a diort time to awaBow
up all the western nations.
Thus, my lords, it appears, diat die
measures wnidi have betn poraued axe
just, politic, and legal; that they haie
been prescribed by i& acts of former par-
liaments, and therafore cannot be censored
as arbitrary ; and that they lunre a ten-
dency to me preservation of thoae terri-
tories which it Iras once though ao modi
honour to acquire : and it may be yet &r*
ther urged, that though they are to be
considered only as the first tendencies to
secure greater designs, they have already
produced eflects appaiwtly to the advan-
tase of the common caine, and have
olmged the French to desist frooi dieir
pursuit of the queen of Hungary, and
rather to enquire how they shaU retum
home, than how they shall proceed to frr-
ther conquests.
In condemnation of these meaaoreBy my
lords, it has indeed been urged, that a no-
derate conduct is alwayseligiUe; and that
nothing but ruin and confusion can be ex-
pected from precipitatiott and temeritf.
Moderation, my lords, is a very capti-
vating sound; but, I hope, it wfll have
now no influence on this House; be-
cause on this occasion it cannot prc^ieriy
be employed. 1 have always been taught,
that moderation is only usdul in ferming
determinations or designs, but that when
once conriction is attained, seal is to take
place ; and when a dewn is f^aaned, it
ought to be executed wito vigour. '
The question is not now, my lorda. Whe-
ther we shall support the oueen of Hun-
gary, but in what manner she ahaU be sop-
poited ; and therefore it cannot be doubted,
out that such simport should be granted
her as may be eKctoal ; and I bdlieve it
will not be thought, that we can aaaist her
without exerting an uncommon d^ree of
viff our, and showing, that we conaider our-
selves as engaged in a cause which cannot
be abandoned without disgrace and ruia.
If the noble lord had, l^f^ he entered
upon his enconuum on moderation, con-
sidered what effects could be promiaed from
his favourite virtue, he would have had at
mdination to di^fa^ liii< etoqaeaoe npsa
WJ
Hanoverian Troopi inio BritM Pay. A* D. 174S.
[IISO
^ By Modtt'itieD, my tordtyunmtefroptp
i iiodenitioii of more than twenty ytm^
«f» we become the scom of menldnd,
^espMedoarerireitotlieinrahs ofal«
toil every mdoii in the worid. By
godemtion hafre we betrayed our allies,
nd rafaed our firiendBhip to loae all ita
the: by moderation have we given up
xmimerce to the rapaci^ of an enemy,
iannidable only for nia perseverance, and
lAred our merchants to be ruined, and
wr sailors to be enslaved. By moderation
Mfe we permitted the French to grasp
tfiin at general dominion, to over-run
Jmumy with their armies, and to endan-
^ again the liberties of mankind ; and
fj continuing for a very few years the
Bine laudable moderation, we smiii proba-
jitj encourage them to shut up our ships
0 our harbour, and demand a tribute for
he use of the channel.
I need not observe to your lordships,
hsC all the sreat actions that have in aU
IMS been aaiieved, have been the efiects
Aesolution, diligence, and darinff activity,
rirtues wholly opposite to the cfSmness of
aoderation. 1 need not observe, that the
idksatages enjoyed at present by the
Firench are the consequences of that vi-
nor and expedition, by which they are
MDguished, and which the form of their
Mvemment enables them to exert Had
ney, my lords, instead of pouring armies
into die Austrian dominions, and procur-
eg by the terror of their troops, the elec*
ion of an emperor, pursued these measures
if moderation whicti have been so patheti-
nlfy recommended, how easily had their
lesigns been defeated ^ Had they lost
ime in persuading the queen of Hungai^
ij a solemn embny to resign her domi-
nonB) or attempted to influence the diet
ly amicable negociations, armies had been
evied, and the passes of Germany had
leen shut against them ; they had been
ipposed on the frontiers of their own
lominions, by troops equaUy numerous,
nd warlike with their own, and instead of
nposing a sovereign on the empire, had
leen perhaps pursued into their own coun-
7-
But, my lords, whether moderation was
lot recommended to them by such power-
id oratory as your lorddiips have heard,
IT whether its advocates met with an audi-
!»ee not easily to^e convinced, it is plain,
hat they seem to have acted upon very
liferent principles, and I wish their policy
lad not been so strongly justified by its
ueeess. By sending an army into Ger-
hioyt m^ Icffds, when there were no forces
ready to oppose them, they radnced all
the pettT pirmces to immediate submission^
and obu^ those to weloome them aa
friends, who would gladly have united
against them as the inveterate enemies of
the whole German body ; and who, had
they been firmly joined by their neigh*
hours, under a general sense of thehr com*
mon danger, would have easily n^ned an
army able to have repelled them.
lliis, my lords, was the eflbct of vigour^
an efiisct very diftrent firom that whidi
we had an opportuni^ of experiencing aa
the consequence of moderation ; it was lo
no purpose that we endeavoured to
alarm mankind by remonstrances, and to
procure assistance by entreaties and soli*
citations; the universal panic was not to
be removed by advice and exhortations,
and the queen of Hungary must have sank
under the weight of a general combination
against her, luid we not at last risen up in
her defence, and with our swords in onr
hands, set an example to the nations of
Europe, of courage and generosity.
It then quickly appeared, my lords, how
little is to be expected from cold persuasion^
and how necessary it is that he who would
engage others in a task ofdifliculty, should
show himself willing to partake the la^
hour which he recommends. No sooner
had we declared our resolution to fii^ our
stipulations, and ordered our troops to
march for the relief c£ the queen of Hun*
gary, than other princes discovered, tlmt
they had the same dispositions, though
they had hitherto thought it prudent to
conceal them ; that they equally with our^
selves hated and feared the French; thai
they were desirous to repress their inso«
lence and oppose their conquests, and
only waited for the motions of some power
who might stand at the head of the con-
federacy, and lead them forwards against
the common enemy.
The liberal promises of dominion made
by the French, by which the sovereigns of
Germany had been tempted to concur in
a design which they thought themadvea
unable to oppose, were now no longer re-
garded : they were considered only as the
boasts of imaginary greatness, which would
at last yani£ into air; and every one
knew, that the ultimate design of Franco
was to oppress eoually her enemies and
firiends, tney wisely despised her oSen^
and either desisted from the designs to
which they had been incited by her, or do*
dared themselvesready to unite affamsther*
This, my lords, lias been the conao*
quence of assembling the anaj, which iy
U3U
16 GEORGE n.
DskOe in tke Lords on taking
[11399
motitm. now under our contiderilioii*
I of your lordfllufM aeem detirous lo
diiband» an incliDadon of which I oonnoC
diioover from whence it can erise. For
whaty my lords, most be the conaeooencey
if thi9 motion should be compUea with i
What but the total destrucUon c£ the
whoie Syslem of power which has been so
liborioittly fpimed, and so stron^y com-
pacted i What but the immediate ruin of
the House of Austria* by which Fkench
ambition has been ao long restrabed?
What but the subTersion of toe liberties of
Germany, and the erection of an universal
empire, to which all the natimis of the
earUi must become vassals ?
Should the auxiliary troops be disband-
ed, the queen of Hungary would find
what benefit she has received from them
by the calamities which the loss of them
would immediateiv bring upon her. AH
the claims of all the nei^bouring princes,
who are now awed into peace ai^ silence,
' would be revived, and every one would
again believe, that nothing was to be hoped
or ftared but from France. The French
would again rush forward to new inva-
mons, and spread desolation over other
eountries, and the House of Austria would
be more weakened than by the loss of
many battles in its present state.
The support of the House of Austria
appears not, indeed, much to engage the
attention of those bv whom this motion is
supported. It has been represented as a
House equally ambitious and perfidious
with that of Bourbon, and equally an ene-
my both to liberty and to true religion ;
and a very celebrated author (Puffendorf)
has been quoted to prove, that it is the in-
terest of the Germans themselves to see a
prince at their head, whose hereditary do-
minions may not incite him to exert the
imperial power to the disadvantage of the
inferior sovereigns.
' In order to tbo consideration of these
objections, it is necessary to observe, my
lords, that national allianoes are not like
laagiies of friendship, the oonseciuenoes of
an agreement of disposition, opinions, and
aftctions, but like associations of com-
meice formed and continued by no simi-
Ktnde of any thing but interest It is not
therefore necessary to enquire what the
House of Austria has deserved from us os
from mankind ( because interest, not gra-
titude, engages us to support it. It io
useless to urge, Aat it is eaually fiutiilem
and oroel wiUi the Houae or Bourbon, be*
eause the question is not, whether boUi
thaU be deiUEroyed,but whedierxme should
tage'wilhottt oenHouL It is siAMt hfl
us that their interest is opposite, sad thn
religion and liberty may be prcsemd bf
their mutual jealousy. Am I oosfoii
my lords, that were the Austrisuabna
to attain unlimited pow^r by tiie conqooi
or mheritance of France and Spsis, i
would be no less proper to forai eoafede*
racies against thena.
The testimony which has been pr^*
duoed of the convenience of aweakeu-
peror, is to be considered, mv isrdS) sstbe
opinion of an author whose birth and ea-
ployment had tainted him with mm^
tecate hatred of the House of Austria, aod
filled his imi^ination with an habitui
dread of the imperial power. He w
born, my lords, in Sweden, a coootrf
which had suffered much by a long wv
against the emperor ; he was a mbister to
the electors of Brandenborgh, who na-
turally looked with envy on the superiontT
of Austria, and could not but wish to see
a weaker prince upon the inmerial throne,
that their own influence might be greater;
nor can we wonder, that a man thus Uhq
and thus supported should a^opt an opn
nion, by which the pride of bia master
would be flattered, and perhaps the la*
terest of his own country promoted.
It is likewise, my lord% to be remarked,
that there was then no audi necessity for
a powerful prince to stand at the head d
the Germans, and to defend them with
his own forces till they oouki unite for
their own preservation. The power of
France had not then arrived at its present
height, nor had their monarcha openly
threatened to enslave all the nstioBS of
Europe. The princes of the empire had
then no oppression to fear, but mm the
emperor; and it was no wonder, that
when he was their only enemy, they wished
that his power was reduced.
How much the state of the cootiDeot is
now changed, is not necessary tameotioD,
nor what alteration that change hasiatro*
duoed into the politics of all nations; thow
who formerly dreaded to be overwbeksed
by the imperial greatness, can now ooly
hope to be secured by it from the toircDt
of the power of France ; and even thoaava-
tions who have formcHrly endeaveaied tha
destruction of Austi^ may now rejoice,
that they are sheltered by its inteiposities
from tjmmts mo^ active end msie op
pressive.
But, my lords, diougb it should ba
granted, l£at tiie House of Austria eo^
not to be supported, ' it will not, iany
opmioDj foUow^timt tiiis motisB dcientf
|SS] Hanamum Troops into British Pay. A. IK 1749*
tuu
^sffrAutiem; becaifee it wiH' redvce
rto a state of imfatecilttyy said condemn
»to Btaad as panire spectators of the
lOarbanccs of the workli witkout fKmer
ad vithoot imflaence, ready to admit the
ffUA to whom -chance shall aUet us, and
loei?d those ki«rs which the pre^raSing
wsrer shall vouehsale to transmit.
^Whether we ought to support the
louse of Austria, to prevent its utter suh-
psion, or restore it to its former ^reat-
mh whatever may be my private (^nion,
think it not on this occasion necessary
»8ssert; it is sufficient to induce us to
qect this motion, that we ought to be at
I0t in a condition that may enable us to
nrove those opportunities that may be
feredy and to'limder the eitecution of
Sj design that may threaten immediate
tmger to our commerce or our liberty.
Another popular topic, my lords, mndk
pi been echoed on ttie present occasion,
Ube happiness of peace, and the blessing
if uninternipted commerce and undis-
Rbed security. We are peipetually told
f the hazards of war, whateyer may be
ke bBperiority of our skill or cowage, or
le certainty o^ the expences, the bkiod-
bedy and the hardships, and doubtfulness
i tlie advanti^es which we may hope fVom
Ivn ; and it is daily urged with great
riiemenoe, that peace upon the hnrdest
baditions is preferable to the honour of
oaouests, and the festivity of triamphs.
Tnese maxims, my lords, which are ge-
•rally true in the sense which their au-
pn intended, may be very properly
■fed against the wilii designs of ambition,
pn the romantic undertakings of wanton
^tness; but have no place in the pre-
Klt enquiry, which relates to a war not
hkte by caprice, but forced imon us by
seesiity; a war to which all the en-
sminms oh peace must in reality incite,
seausa peace" alone is the end intended
M>e obtained by it.
Of the necessity of peace to a trading
ition it if not possible, my lords, to be
porant; and therefore no man can be
isgtiied to propose a state of war as eli-
ible in itself. War, my lords, is in my
pinien -only to be chosen, when peace
Ml be no ^aMer enjoyed, and to be con-'
Bwed only tifi a peace secure and equita-
ie can be obtained. In the present state
f the world, my lords, we fight not fbr
unels, nor conquests, but for existeaee.
bould the arme o£ France prevail, and
vevail they must unless we oppose them, i
baat Britain mssf » a sbin ^bauo no i| lord Carteret
longer be a nation; our liberties wOl be
Uken a(vray, mr constitution destroyed,
our religion persecuted, and perh^ oar
name aMished.
For the prevention of calanuties Vko
these, not for the. preservation of tfaa
House of Austria, it is necessary, mj
lords, to collect an army ; for by an armw
only can our liberties be preserved, andsun
apeace obtained, as may be enjoyed withoaa
the imputation of supineness and fetnpiditfa
Of tnis the other House appears to be
sufficiently convinced, and has therelbre
granted money for the suppott of th#
auxiliary troops ; nor do I doubt but your
lordships will concur with them, when jree
shall fully consider the motives upon which
thev maybe supposed to have proceeded^
and reflect, that by dismissing tnose troops^
we shall sacrifice to the anibition of Fmnce,
the House of Austria, the KbertiM of Eu* ,
rope, our own happiness, end that of oar
posterity ; and that by resolving to e^eit
our forces for a short time, we may plac6
the happiness of mankind beyond -tha
reach of attacks and violation*
The Earl of Chesterfield:*
My lords; the considerations ^
were laid before you by the noble lorda
who made and seconded the motion, ar0
so important in themselves, and have been
urged with so much force and judgment^
that I shall not endeavour to add any new
arguments ; since where those tail whioli
have been already offisred, it is net likely
that any will be effectual : l>ut I shall eiK
deavour to preserve them in their full
force by removing the objections whi^
have been made to them.
The first consideration that clsdnM oar
attention is the reverence due to 'pirli*-
nient, to the great council of the nalMVi,
which ought always to heconsulted, wban
any important design is fbrmed, or any
new measures adopted, espedally if th^
are such as cannot ^be defeated by htmg
made public, and such as an uncommon
degree of «xpence is necessary to voppori.
These principles, my lordsj which I
suppose no man wiU contest, have- been ao
little regarded by the mfaiistry on rtie pre-
sent'occasion, that they seem to have en*
deavoured to discover by a bold escped-
ment, to what degree of servility pi^lia-
mentsraay be reducned, and wfaat'insaitt
« " \ '' ' '
♦ In the Collection of Dr. Johnson's B^-
bates^ thistSpesch is erroueously fettribtitad ts
1185] 16 GEORGE 11.
DebaU in 9he Lorik tm inking
piw
Ihejr will be taught to bear without re*
aentment; for they have, without the leist
previous hbt of their design, made a con-
tract for a very numerous body of inerce-
nariesyoor did they condescend to inform
parliament, till they asked for money to
pay them.
To execute measures first, and then to
require the approbation of parliament, in-
atead of advice, is surely such a degree of
contempt as has not often been shown in
tfie most arbitrary reigns, and such as
would once have provokfSsuch indiffnation
in the other House, that there woiiud have
been no need in this of a motion like the
present.
But, my lords, in proportion as the other
^ouse seems inclined to pay an implicit
submission to the dictates of Uie ministry,
jt is our dut^ to increase our vigilance,
and to convmce our fellow-eubjects, by a
steady opposition to all encroachments,
that we are not, as we have been some-
.times styled, an usdess assembly, but the
lm^ resort of liberty, and the chief support
of the constitution.
The present design of those, who have
thus dued to trample upon our privileffes,
Appears to be nothing less than that ofre-
4ucing the parliaments of Great Britain to
^ same abject slavery with those of
France ; to show the people that we are to
be considered only as their agents to raise
^e supplies whicn they shaU be pleased,
under whatever pretences, todenumd, and
to register such determinations as they
jhall condescend to lay before us.
This invasion of our rights, my lords, is
^loo iagrant to he borne, though were the
ineasures which we are thus tyrannically
irequired to support, really conducive in
themselves to the interest of Great Britain,
which indeed might reasonably have been
expected ; for what head can be imagined
ao ill-formed for politics as not to know,
that the first acts of arbitrary power ought
to be in themselves popukr, that the ad-
vantage of the effisct nkay be a balance to
the means by which it is produced.
But these wonderful politicians, my
lords, have heaped one blunder upon ano-
ther ; they have disffusted the nation both
by the meant and &e end • and have in-
auited parliament with no other view than
.that of plundering the people. The^ have
fttnturad without the consent of parliament
10 pursue measures, of which it is obvious
.that they were only kept secret, because
^ easily feraa w that Uiey would not be
For that the hire of mercenaries fiera
Hanover, my lords, would ham been re-
jected wkh seneral indknatioa ; that the
proposal woiud have promoed hiaseannkr
than censures; and that the argamcau
which have been hitherto used to auppist
it, would,'if personal regards did not inske
them of some importance, prodooe laughta
oftener than replies, .cannot auxely be
doubted.
It hw been said in vindication of tka
wise scheme, that no other titxypa catM
be obtained but those of Hanover ; an as-
sertion which I hope 1 may be allowed to
examine, because it is yet a bare assertkn
without argument, and against probabilih ;
since it is generally known, how willii^
the princes of G^many have on all for-
mer occasions sent out their subjects to
destruction, that they might m thdr
coffers with their pay; nor do I doubt,
but that there is now in the sanae ooontfj
the usual superabundance of men, andtbe
usual scarcitv of money. I make no ^oes-
tion, my lorw, that many a Gennan priaoe
would gladly fomish us with men as a veir
chei^ commodity, and think himself m^
fidently reward^ by a small subsidT.
There could be no objection to these
troops from the constitution of tlie empire,
which is not of equal force aninst ibe
forces of Hanover; nor do 1 know wfaj
they should not rather have been employed,
if they could have been obtained at s
cheaper price.
The absurdity of paying levy-money
for troops regulttly kept up, and of hinDg
them at a higher rate than was ever paid
for auxiliaries before, has been so atroi^
urged andso fiilly exphunedy that no reply
has been attempted by those who have
hitherto opposed the motion, having i«>
ther endeavoured to divert our attenttoe
to foreign conslderationa, than to vindicate
this part of the contract, whidi ia indeed
too shameful to be palliated, and too groa
to be overlooked.
It is however proper to repeat, my lords,
that though it cannot be confuted^ it may
be forgotten in the multitude of other ob*
jects, that this nation, after having exalted
the elector of Hanover from a state of cAi-
scurity to the crown, is condemned to hire
the troops of Hanover to fight their ovn
cause, to hire them at a rate wkich wai
never demanded for them before, nod to
Ey levy-mone^ for them, though it k
lown to all Europe, that they were not
raised on thb occasion.
Neria thi« th« oady haidship or folly d
iisn
Hiwoeriak Tro&ps into BriUih Pay.
Ods contract; for we are to pay th^ a
nonth before they march into our service ;
1^ are to pay those for doiDc nothing, of
vrhom it might have been, wi&outany un-
rcasoni^le expectations, hoped, that they
vroold hare exerted their utmost force
without pay.
For it 18 apparent, my lords, that if the
designs of France be such as the noble
lords who oppose the motion represent
them, Hanover is much nearer to danger
than Great Britain; and therefore they
only, fight for their own preservation;
since,' though they have for a single year
been blessed with a neutrality, it cannot
be imagined, that the same favour will be
always granted them, or that the French,
when they have overrun all the rest of
Germany^ will not annex Hanover to their
other dominions.
Besides, my lords, it is well known, that
Hanover is equally engagedby treaty with
Great Britain to maintain the Pragmatic
Sanction, and that a certain proportion of
troops are to be furnished. But, my lords,
as to the march of that body offerees, I
have yet heard no account. Will any
noble lord say that they have marched ?
I therefore.suppose, that the wisdom and
justice of our mfnistefs has comprehended
them in the 16,000 who are to fiitten upon
British pay, and that Hanover will support
the Pragmatic Sanction at the cost of this
inexhaustible nation.
Tbe service which those troops have al-
ready done to the common cause, has been
urged with great pomp of exaggeration,
of which what effect it may have had upon
others, I am not able to say : for my part
I am convinced, that the great happiness
of tVis kingdom is the security of the esta-
blished succession ; and am therefore al-
ways of opinion, that no measures can
serve the common cause, the cause of
liberty, or of religion, or of general hap-
piness, by which the royal family loses the
affections of the people. And I can with
great confidence affirm, that no attempt
for many years has raised a greater heat
of resentment, or excited louder clamours
of imtignation, Uian the hire of Hanoverian
troops ; nor is this discontent raised only
hy artful misrepresentations, formed to in-
fi^c the j^assions and perplex the under-
w^^^xi — it is a settled and rational dis-
hke, which every day contributes to con-
frm, which will make aH the measures of
the government suspected, and may in
™e, if not obviated, break out in sedition.
A jealousy ^f Hanover has indeed for a
[VOL. XII.]
A.D 174S. [1138
long time prevailed in the nation: the
frequent visits of our lungs to their elec-
toral dominions, contraty to the original
terms on which this crown was conferred
upcon them, have inclined the people of
uEigland to suspect, that they have only
the second place in the affection of their
sovereign; nor has this suspicion been
made less by the large accessions made to
those dominions by purchases, which thd
electors never appeared able to make be-
fore their exaltation to the throne of Great
Britain, and by some measures which have
been apparently taken only to aggrandize
Hanover at the expcnce of Great Britain*
These measures, my lords, I am very
far from imputing to our sovereign or hit
father; the wisdom of both is so weD
known, that they cannot be imagined to>
have incurred, either by contempt or neg-
ligence, the disaffection of their subjects*
Those, my lords, are only to be blamed,
who concealed from them the sentimenta
of the nati<H], and for the sake of promoting
their own interest, betrayed them, by Uie
most detestable and pernicious flattery^
into measures which could produce no
other effect than that of making their reigtt
unquiet, and of exasperating those who
had concurred with the wannest zeal in
supporting them on the throne.
It is not without an uncommon degree
of grief, that I hear it urged in defence ^
this contract, that it was i^iproved bys
very numerous council ; for what can pro-
duce more sorrow in an honest and a loyal
breast, than to find that our sovereign ift
surrounded by counsellors, who either do
not know the desires and opinions of the
people, or do not regard them ; who ara
either so negligent as not to examine how
the affections of the nation may be best
preserved, w so rash as to pursue those
schemes by which they hope to gratify the
king at whatever hazard, and ^o for the
sake of flattering him for a day, 'will riak
the safety of his government, and the re*
pose of his life.
It has with regard Xii diese troons beai
asked by the noble lord who spoke last,
what is die intent of this motion but to dis«
band them ? What else indeed can be in-
tended by it, and what intention can be
more worthjr of this House \ By a steady
pursuit of this intention, my lords, we«hail
regain the esteem of the nation, which
this daring invasion of our privyeges may
be easily supposed to have impaired. We
shall give our sovereign an opportunity,
by a gracious condescension to our desires.
1139]
16 GEORGE U.
Dthate in the LarSs on iaMng
[1140
to recover those affections of which the
pernicious advice of flatterers has de-
prived him ; we shall obviate a precedent
which threatens destruction to our liber-
tiesy and shall set the nation free from an
universal alarm. Nor in our present state
is it to be mentioned as a trining conside-
ration, that we shall hinder the wealth of
the nation from being ravished from our
merchants, our farmers, and our manufac-
turers, to be squandered upon foreigners ;
and foreigners, from whom we can hope
for no advantage.
But it may be asked, my lords, how the
Sreat cause of liberty is to be supported,
ow the House of Austria is to be pre-
served from ruin, and how the ambition of
f ranee is to be repressed i How all this is
to be effected, my lords, I am very far
from conceiving myself qualified to deter-
mine ; but surely it will be very little hin-
dered by the dismission of troops, whose
allegiance obliges them not to figtit against
the emperor, and of whom, therefore, it
does not easily appear how they can be
Te^ useful allies to the queen of Hungary.
But whatever service is expected from
them, it may surely, my lords, be per-
formed by tne same number of Bntish
troops, and that that number may be sent
to supply their place, without either delay
or difficulty, I will venture to say without
any hazard. If it be objected, as it has
onen been, that by sending out our troops,
.we shall leave our country naked to in-
vasion, I hope I m^ be allowed to ask,
who will invade us ? The French are well
known to be the only people whom we
can suspect of an]r such desisn. They
have no fleet on this side of Uieir king-
dom, and their ships in the Mediterranean
are blocked up in the harbour by the na-
vies of Great Britain. AYe shall still have
at home a body of 7,000 men, which was
thought a sufficient security in the late
. war, when the French had a fleet equid to
our own. Why we should now be in more
danger from without, I cannot discover ;
and with regard to intestine commotions,
they will be presented by compliance with
the present, mdlion. ^ For nothmg can in-
cite the people of Great Britain to expose
those who have openly dismissed the troops
of Hanover..^But I am not yet at all con-
vinced, that the end for which those troops
are said to be hired, ought to be pursued,
or can be attained by us; and it the end
be iu itself improper or impossible, it cer-
tainly follows, that the means ought to be
laid^aside*
If we consider the present state of the
continent, we shall find no prospect bj
which we can be enoouiagea to hasA
our .forces or our money. The kiog of
Sardinia has indeed dedared for us, and oih
posed the passage of the Spaniards; but be
appears either to be deficient in couragei
or in prudence, or in force ; for instead of
giving battle on his fi'ontiers, he has suf-
fered them, with very little reastance, to
invade his territories, to plunder and insult
his subjects, and to live at his expence;
and it may be suspected, that if he cannot
drive them out of his country, he willin
time be content to purchase their dq«r-
ture, by granting them a passage through
it, and rather give up the dominioDSofhii
ally to b€ ravaged, than preserve them at
the expence of his own.
If we turn our eyes towards the Dotdif
we shall not be more encouraged to en-
gage in the wars on the continent; for
whatever has been asserted of their rea^-
ness to proceed in conjunction with us,
they i^pear hitherto to behold, wi& the
most supine tranquillity^ the subversion of
the German system, and to be satisfied with
an undisturbed enjoyment of their ricbet
and their trade. Nor is there any ap-
peoitmce, my lords, that their concurrence
IS withheld only by a single town, as bai
been insinuated ; for the vote of any singfe
town, except Amsterdam, may be orer-
ruled, and the resolution haspaasedthe
necessary form, when it is o^osed by oslj
one voice.
If we take a view, my lords, of their
late conduct, without suflSering our desirei
to mislead our understandings, we shall
find no reason for imagining, that they
propose any sudden alteration of their
conduct, which has been hitherto con-
sistent and steady, and appears to arise
from established principles, which nothing
has lately happened to mdine them to for-
sake.
When they were solicited to become,
like us, the guarantees of Hanover, they
made no scruple of returning, with what-
ever unpoliteness, an absolute refiisal; nor
could tney be prevailed upon to grant.
what we appear to think that we weie
honoured in being admitted to bestow.
When they were called upon to fulfil their
stipulation, and support the Pragmatic
Sanction, they evaded their own contract,
till all assistance would have been too late,
had not a lucky discovery of the French
perfidy senarated the king of Prussia from
them ; aaa what reason, mj lonbi can b^
1141]
Hantnerian Troops into BrUM Pay*
A. D. 1749.
[11«»
given, why the^ should now do what thev
refused, when it might have been mucn
more safely and more easily effected i Did
they suffer the queen of Hungary to be
oppressed, only to show their own power
and affluence by relieving her ? Or can it
be imagined, that pity has prevailed over
policy or cowardice ? They, who in con-
tempt of their own treaties refused to en»
gage in a cause whOe it was yet doubtful,
wifi certainly think themselves justified in
abandoning it when it is lost, and will
urge, that no treaty can oblige them to act
like madmen, or to undertake impossibili-
ties.
1 am therefore convinced, my lords,
that they will not enter into an offensive
treaty, and that they have only engaged to
do what their own mterest required from
them, without any new stipulation, to pre-
serve their own country from invasion by
sending garrisons into the frontier towns,
which they may do without any offence to
France, or an^ interruption of their own
tranquillity.
Many other treaties have been men-
tioned, my lords, and mentioned with
great ostentation, as the effects of con-
summate policy, which will, I suspect, ap-
pear to be at. least only defensive treaties,
by which the contracting powers promise
little more than to take care or them-
selves.
In this state of the world, my lords,
when all the powers of the continent ap-
pear benumbed by a lethargy, or shackled
by a panic, to what purpose should we
lavish, in hiring and transporting troops,
that wealth which contests of nearer mi-
portance immediately require i
It is well known to our merchants,
whose ships are every day seized by pri-
vateers, that we are at war with Spain, and
that our commerce is every day impaired
by the depredations of an enemy, whom
only our own negligence enables to resist
us ; but I doubt, my lords, whether it is
known in Spain, that their monarch is at
war with Great Britain, otherwise than by
the riches of our nadon, which are distn-
buted among their privateers, and the pri-
soners who in the towns on the coast are
wandering in the streets. For I know no
inconvenience which they can be supposed
to feel from our hostilities, nor in what
part of the world the war against them is
carried on. Before the war was declared,
it is well remembered by whom, and with
how great vehemence, it was every day
r^eated, that to end the war with honour
we o^ght to < take and hold.' What, my
lords, do we * hold,' or what have we
* taken ?' What has the war produced in
its whole course from one year to another,
but defeats, losses, and ignominy ? And
how shall we regain our honour, or re-
trieve our wealth, by engaging in another
war more danserous but less necessary ?
We ought surely to humble Spain, before
we presume to attack France ; and we may
attack France with better prospects of suc-
cess, when we have no otner enemy to di-
vert our attention, or divide our forces.
That we ought indeed to make any at-
tempt upon France, I am far from being
convinced, because I do not now discover,
that any of the motives subsist which en-
gaged us in the last confederacy. The
House of Austria, though overborne and
distressed^ was then powerful in itself, and
possessed of the imperial crown. It is
now reduced almost below the hopes of
recovery, and we are therefore now to re-
store what we were then only to support.
But what, my lords, is in my opinion much
more to be considered, Uie nation was
then unanimous in one general resolution
to repress the insolence of France; no
hardsnips were insupportable that conduc-
ed to thb great end, nor any taxes grie-
vous that were applied to the support of
the war. The account of a victory was
esteemed as an equivalent to excises and
to public debts ; and the possessions of us
ana our posterity were cheerfully mort-
gaged to purchase a triumph over the
common enemy. But, my lords, the dis-
position of the nation with regard to the
present war is veiy different They dis-
cover no danger threatening them, they
are neither invaded in their possessions by
itie armies, nor interrupted in their com*
merce by the fleets of France ; and there-
fore they are not able to find out why
they must be sacrificed to an enemy, by
whom they have been lone pursued with
the most implacable hatred, for the saks
of attacking a power from which they have
hitherto felt no injury, and which they be-
lieve cannot be provoked without danger,
nor opposed witnout such a profusion of
expence as the public is at present not
able to bear.
It 18 not to be supposed, loy lords, that
the bulk of the British people are affected
with the distresses, or inflamed by the
ma^animity of the queen of Hungary.
This illustrious daughter of Austria, whose
name has been so oflen echoed in these
walls, and of whom I am fiir fTom,detiy ingi
1143]' 16GB0R6EII.
DebaU t» ike LorA on UMng
[IVkk
that she d^eiVeft our admiration, our com«
iMiasioDy and all the a»istance whicK can
De given her, coneistentlj with the regard
due to the safety of our own country^ is
to the greatest part of the people an ima*
gioary princess^ whose sufferings or whose
virtues make no other impression upon
them, than those which are recorded in fie-
titious narratives ; nor can they easily be
Sersuaded to give up for her relief the pro-
uce of their umds, or the profits of taeir
commerce.
Some indeed there are, my lords, whose
views are more extensive, and whose sen-
timents are more exalted ; for it b not to
be supposed, that either knowledge or ge-
nerosi^ aare confined to she narliunent or
the court : bat these, my lords, thoiq;h
they peihaps may more readily approve
the end wmch the ministry nret^ids to
pursue, are lesssaitisfied wim me means by
whidi tiie3r endeavour to attain it» By
these men it is easii^ discovered, that the
hopes which some so confidently express
of pcevailing apon the Dutch to unite with
us for the sunport of the Pragmatic Sanc-
tion, 'are without foondatkm; they see
that their consent to place garrisons m the
frontiertowns,howeverit may furnish asub-
j ect of exultation to those whose interest it
is to pqyresent themasready to concur with
us, is only a new proof of what was never
doubted, Uieir unvariable attention to their
own interest, since they must for their own
security preserve their own barrier from
being seised by France. By this act they
in^ir no new expence, they provoke no
enemies, nor give any assistance to the
queen of Hungary, by which they can
raise eidier resentment m one part, or gra-
titude in the other ; and therefore it is not
hard to perceive that, whatever is pretend-
ed, th^ Dutch hitherto observe the most
exact laws of neutrality ; and it is too evi-
dent, that if they refuse their assistance,
we have very little to hope from a war
with France.
Nor is this the only objection against
the present measures; for it is generally,
and not without sufficient reason, sus-
pected, that the real assistance of the
queen of Hungary is not intended, since
the troops which have been hired under
that pretence, are such as cannot march
against the emperor. It is known, that
the Hessians have absolutely retused to
infringe the constitution of the German
body, by attacking him who is by a l^al
grant acknowledged its head; nor .is it
C^y.feo ooQceive, why there chouid be a
diSsreat law for Haam^ Am^bc the
other electorates.
The long stay of the troops in Flanden,
a place where there is no enemy to en-
counter, nor ally to assist, is a suffidsBt
proof that there is nothing more designed
than that the troops of Hanover diaQ
loiter on the verge of war. and receire
their pay for feasting in their quarteo^
and showing their arms at a review ; and
that they in reality design nothing but to
return hon^e with fuU pock^ a^ enjsy
the spoils of Great Britam.
There may indeed be another ressoe,
my lords, whidi hinders the progren of
the united forces, and by whi^ tl^ Eng-
lish and Hanoverians may be both affected,
though not both in the same degree, h
is by no means milikely, that the king «f
Prussia has foibiddai them to advance, sod
declared, that the emperor who was dttsea
by his suffirage shall be su|ipofted by kig
arms ; if this be his resolution, be is well
known to want neither spirit nor strength
to avow and support it, and th^e are res*
sons sufficient to convince us, that he has
declared it, and that our troops are oov
patiently waitmg the event or « negods^
tion by which we are endeavouring to
persuade him to alter his design, if iadedi
It be desired that he ahould aiUer it; fiorit
is not certam, that the elector of Hanover
can desire the restoration of the House d
Austria to an hereditary element of the
imperial dignity; nor can it easflv bs
shown why the politics of one Houie
jhould difier from those of all the other
prinoes of Uie German eowre.
The other princes, my lords, have loog
wished for an emperor with whom thej
might treat upon the level : an emperor
who might owe his dignity only to thdr
votes, and who therefore would be willing W
favour them in gratitude for the benefit.
They know, thatthe princes of the House
of Austria considered their advaacemeot
to the empire as tiie conseouence of their
jiumeroue forces and large oomiiuoDS, sod
made use of their exaltation only to ty*
rannise under the appearance of le^
right, and to oppress those as sovereign^
whom they would otherwise have hscswed
as conquerors.
Before we can therefore hope for tbe
concurrence of the princes of me eospiie,
we must inform them of our dewgo, if >ay
design has been yet laid out. £ it y<w
intention to r^ore the House of AihM
to the fidl ea|oyment of its fonaer ei^
145]
Hanofoerian Troop nUo BriHsk Pay. A. D« 17i9« - > [lllff
)sed by all those powers who are strong
lough to make head agaiiist it> and se**
etly obstructed by those, wliose weak*
ess makes them afraid of public deckra-
ons. Do you intepd to 8U{y>ort the Prag-
istic Sanction ? This can only be done
y defeating the whole power of France ;
ad for this you must necessarily provide
oops who ahali dare to act against die
resent emperot. So that it appears, my
)rds, that we are attempting nothing, or
ttemptiog inqpossibilities ; that either we
ave no end Id yiew, or that we have made
se of an absurd choice rfmeans by which
: cannot be attained.
Whate¥er be our desl^ with re^rd to
krmany, the war s^sainst Spain is evi-
leotly neglected; ana indeed one part of
lur conduct proves at once^ that we in-
end neither to assist the Austrians, nor
0 punish tlie Spaniards; since we have in
i great measure discribled ourselves from
uther by the neutrality which captain
Vlartin is said to have granted, and by
I'hich we have allowed an asylum both to
;he tcoops of Spain, which shall fly before
the Austrians, and the privateers which
ihall be chased by our ships in the Medi-
terranean.
I am therefore convinced, my lords, that
our designs are not such as they are re-
presented, or that they will not be accom-
plished by the measures taken. I am con-
?inced in a particular n^anner, that the
troops of Hanover can be of no use, and
that they will raise the resentment of the
nation already overwhelmed with unneces-
tary burthens. I know likewise, that Uiey
have been taken into pay without the con-
sent of parliament, and am convinced, that
it* no other objection could be raised, we
ought not to ratify a treaty which the
crown has made, without laying it before
us in the usual manner. 1 need not there-
fore inform your lordships, that I think
the motion now under your consideration
necessary and just ; and that I hope, upon
an attentive examination of the reasons
which have been oflered, your lordships
will concur in it with that unanimity which
evidence ought to enforce, and that zeal
which ought to be excited by public
toger.
The Duke of NmcattU :
My lords; I know not by what
inaginanr appearances of public danger
il '^ ^^ ^ '^ much alarmed, nor
what fiears they are which he endeavours
With so miidiaitaiid zm} to communicate
to this assembly. For my part, I. can^
upon die most attentive sorv^ of our
amiirs, discover nothing to be feared but^
calumnies and misrepresentations; and
these I shaQ henceforward think more
formidable, since they have been able to
in^ose upon an ujiderstanding so pene-
trating as that o£ his brdship, and havet
prevailed upon him to believe what is nofe
only iaise, but without the appearance of
truth, and to believe it so nrmjy, as to
assert it to your lordships.
One of the &cts which he has«thus un«
pJicitlv received, and thus publicly m£n<^
tioneo, is the neutrality supposed to have
been granted to the km^ of Sicily/ from
whicb-^ be has amused himself and your
lordships with deducing very destructive
consequences, that perhaps need not to
be idlowed him even upon supposition of
the neutrality ; but which need not now:
be disputed, because no neutrality has
been granted* Captain Martin, when he
treated with the km^, yery cautiously de-
clined any declarations of the intentiona
of the British court on that particular,
and confined himself to the subject of his
message, without giving any reason for
hope, or despair, of a neutrality. So that
if it diall be thought necessary, we are at
this hour ajt liberty to declare war against
the king oiT Sicily, and may pursue the '
Spaniards with the same freedom on hii
coasts as on those of any other power|
and prohibit any assistance from being
given by him to their armies in Italy.
His lordship's notion of theinterposttioi^
of the king or Prussia in the emperor's &m
vour, is another phantom raised by oalumnv
to terrify credulity; a phantom which
will, I hope, be entirely dissipated, when I
have informed the House, tnat the whol9
suspicion is without foundation, and that
the king of Prussia has made no dedans
tion of any designee support theemperon
or of opposing us in the performance of
our treaties. This prince, my lords^ howr
ever powerful, active, or ambitious, apf
pears to be satisfied with bis acquisitiom^
and willing to rest in an ino&nsive neuf
trality,
^ Such, my lords, and so remote from
truth are the representations which tih#
enemies of the government have wifj^
great zeal and industry scattered over the
nation, and by which they have endea^
voured to obviate those schemes whic^
th^ would seem to favour ; for hf sink"
ing the nation to a de^>air of attamiiy
those ends which they declaraAttfaeswtf
lUTJ
16 GEORGE 11.
Debate in the Lords on taUng
[1148
time necessary not only to our happiness,
but to our preservation, what do tney less
than tell us, that we must be content to
look unactive on the calamities that ap-
proach usy and prepare to be crushed by
that ruin which we cannot prevent
From this cold dejection, my lords,
arises that despair which so many lords
have expressed of prevailing upon the
Dutch to unite with us. The determina-
tions of that people are indeed always
slow, and the reason of their slowness has
been already given; but I am informed
that the general spirit which now reigns
among them, is lixely soon to over-rule
the particular interests of single provinces,
and can produce letters by which it will
appear, that had onl^ one town opposed
those measures to which their concurrence
is now solicited, it had been long since
over-ruled; for there want not among
them men equally enamoured of the mag-
nanimity and mmness of the queen of
Hungary, eaually zealous for the general
ffood of mankind, equally zealous for the
Sberties of Europe, and equally convinc-
ed of the perfidy, the ambition, and the
insolence of France, with any lord in tiiis
assembly.
These men, my lords, have long endea-
Toured to rouse their country trom the
sloth of avarice, and the slumber of tran-
quilli^, to a generous and extensive re-
gard lor the universal happiness of man-
kind ; and are now labouring in the gene-
ral assembly to communicate that ardour
with which they are themselves inflamed,
and to excite that zeal for public &ith, of
which their superior knowledge shows
them the necessity.
It has been indeed msinuated, that all
their consultations tend only to place gar-
risons in those towns from which the
queen of Hungary has withdrawn her
forces ; but this supposition, my lords, as
it is without any support from facts, is
likewise Without probability. For to gar-
rison the barrier towns, requires no pre-
vious debates, nor deliberations ; since it
never was opposed even by those by whom
the assistance of the queen of Hungary
bas been most retarded. Nor have even
the deputies of Dort, whose obstinacy has
|)een most remarkable, denied the neces-
sity of securing the confines of their coun-
try, by possessing with their own troops
those places which the Au&trians are
obliged to forsake. Their present dis-
putes, my lords, must be therefore on some
fiber questkm; and wh^ question can be
now before them which can produce any
difficulties, but that which regsrds the
support of the Pragmatic Sanction.
If these deliberations should be so &r
influenced by the arrival of the armj la
the pa^ of Great Britain, as to endina
resolution to send a sufficient number ct
forces into Germany, it will not be deni-
ed, that the troops which give occasion
for this debate, have really ^n useful to
the common cause ; nor wfll his majesty
lose the affections of any of his subjects,
by the &lse accounts which hare been
spread of an invidious preference given to
tne troops of Hanover.
That every government ought to endea-
vour to gain me esteeim and coDSdence
of the people, I suppose we are all eqiiallj
convinced ; but I, lor my part, sm very
far from thinkine that measures oogbt
only to be pursued or rejected, as they are
immediately fiivoured or disliked by the
populace. For as they cannot hov
eitner the causes or die end of public
transactions, they can judge only from
fidlacious appearances, or the infonnatioa
of those whose interest it may perhaps be
to lead them away frY>m the truth* Tbt
monarch will be certidnly and most per-
manently popular, who steadily pursues
the good of his people, even in oppositioo
to their own prejudices and cJamoun;
who disregards calumnies, which, thougii
they may prevail for a day, time will sum-
ciently confute, and slights objections
which he knows may be answered, aDdaa*
swered bejond reply.
Such, my lords, are the objections whicb
have been hitherto raised against the
troops of Hanover, of which man^ arise
from ignorance, and many from prejudice;
and some may be supposed to be made
only for the sake ot giving wqr to in-
vectives, and indulging n petulant incli-
nation of speaking, contemptuously of
Hanover.
With this view, my lords, it baa been
asked, why the Hanoverians are preferred
to all other nations ? Why they have been
selected from all other troops to fight
against France the cause of Europe?
They were chosen, my lords, becaose Uisj
were most easily to be procured. Of the
other nations from whom forces h&ye
usually been hired, some were engaged in
the care of protecting, or the design of
extending their own dominions, andotbers
had no troops levied, nor could therefore
furnish them with speed enough for the
exigence that demanded tlieou
149] Hanoverian Troops into BriHA Pag. A. D. 1749.
[1150
It hafl been asked with an air of trimnphy
ga question to which no answer coula be
jiTeD, why an equal number of English-
nen was not sent, since their valour might
le esteemed at least equal to that of Ha-
wverians? I am far, my lords, from in-
ending to diminish the reputation of Bri-
ish courage, or detract from that praise
rhich has been gained by such gallant en-
erprises, and preserved by a long succes-
ion of dangers, and of victories; nor do I
xpect that any nation will ever form a
list claim to suneriority. The reason,
lierefore, my lords, for which the troops
if Hanover were hired, was not that tne
iravery of our countrymen was doubted,
lat that the transportation of such num-
lers might leave us naked to the insults of
D enemy. For tlioueh the noble lord has
leclaredt, that afler having sent 16,000
Dto Flanders, we should still have reserved
ix our defence a body of 7,000,. equal to
hat to which the protection of this king-
lom was intrusted in the late war, his opi-
lion will upon exatnination be found to
lave arisen only from the enumeration of
be names of our regiments, many of which
re far from bein^ complete, and some
Imost merely nommal ; so that perhaps if
I body of 16,000 morehad been sent, there
rouldnot have remained a single regiment
0 have repelled the crew of any daring
nvateer that should have landed to bum
ur villages, and ravage the defenceless
ountry.
It was desired, my lords, by the queen
f Hungary, that a British army might
ppear on Uie continent in her favour, for
be knew the reputation and .terror of our
nns ; and as her demand was equitable in
telf, and honourable to the nation, it was
omplied with ; and as many of our native
t)ops were sent, as it was thought conve-
ient to spare, the rest were necessarily to
e hired; and it is the business of those
rrds who defend the motion, to show from
hence they could be called more proper-
^ than from Hanover.
It has been urged with great warmth^
lat the contract made for these troops
u not been laid before parliament, a
barge which the noble lord who spoke
»t but one, has shown to be ill- grounded;
ecause the former determinations of par-
unent enabled the crown to garrison the
ontier towns without any new delibera-
ons, but which may be perhaps more sa-
sfactorily confuted by snowing, that it is
1 accusation of neglecting Uiat which
as in reality not possible to be performed,
or which at least could not be performed
without subjecting the government to im-
putations yet more dangerous tlum those
which it now sufiTers.
The accounts, my lords, by which th#
ministry were determined to send the
army into Flanders, arrived only fifteen
days before the recess of parliament; nor
was the resolution formed, as it may easily
be imagined, till several days after; so
that there was very little time for parlia-
mentary deliberations, nor was it perhaps
convenient to publish at that time tne
whole scheme of our designs.
But let us suppose, my lords, that par«
liament had a few days before they rose
been consulted, and that a vote of credit
had been required to enable the crown to
hire forces during the interval of the ses-
sion, what would those by whom Uiis mo-
tion is supported have urged against it >
Would they not with' great appearance of
reason have alleged Uie impropriety of
such an application to the thin remains of
a parliament, from which almost all those
had retired whom their employments did
not retain in the neighbourhood of the
court? Would it not have been echoed
from one comer of these kingdoms to ano-
ther, that the ministry had betrayed their
country by a contract which they durst
not lay before a full parliament, and of
which they would trust the examination
only to those whom they had hired to ap-
prove it ? Would not tins have been gene-
rally asserted^ and generally believed f
Would not those who distinguished them-
selves as the opponents of the court, have
urged, that the king ought to exert fais
prerogative, and trust the equity of par-
liament for the approbation of his mea-
sures, and the payment of the troops
which he had retained for the iSupport pif
the common cause, the cause for wnich so
much zeal had been expressed, and for
which it could not with justice be suspect-
ed, that any reasonable demands woiud be
denied i Would not die solicitation of a
grant oT power without limits, to be exert-
ed wholly at the discreUon of the ministry^
be censured as a precedent of the utmost
danger, which it was the business of every
man to oppose, who had not lost all regaid
to the constitution of his country i
These insinuations, my lords, were fore-
seen and allowed by the ministry to be
specious, and therefore they determinetl to
avoid them by pursuing their schemes at
their own hazard, without any other isecu-
rity than the consciousness pf the recti^U^e
llMJ 16'dEbltOl^IL D^einaeLorJitmfmng
[II5S
of their own design ; and to tnist tojthe
auitv of parliament when they should be
d before them, at a time when part of
dieir effects might be discoverecly and
When therefore no false representations
Could be used to mislead their judgment.
They knew the zeal of the Commons for
the great cause of universal liberty ; they
knew that their measures had no other
tendency than the promotion of that cause,
and therefore they confidently formed
tKose expectations which have not deceiv-
ed them, that the pay of the troops would
be readily granted, and ordered them
therefore to march ; though If the Com-
mons had disapproved their plan, they
must have returned into their own coun-
trv» or have been supported at the expence
of the electorate.
The objections nSsed against these
troops, have apparently had no influence
in the other House, because supplies have
been granted for Uieir pay ; ana I believe
they wSl, upon examination, be found by
your lordships not to deserve much regard.
It is asserted, that they cannot act
l^nst the emperor established and ac-
knowledged by the diet, without subject*
ing their country to an interdict; and it
was therefore suspected, that they would
in reality be of no use. This suspicion,
my lords, I suppose it is now not necessary
to censure, since you have heard from his
majesty, that they are preparing to march ;
and aa the consequences of their conduct
can only afiect the electorate, its propriety
or legafity with regard to the constitution
of the empire, falls not prc^rly under our
Iconsideration.
How his inajesty's measures may be de-
fended, even in this view, I suppose I need
not inform any lord of this House. It is well
Imown, that the emperor was chosen not
by the free consent of the diet, in which
every elector voted according to his own
sense, but by a ^et in which one vote of
(he empire was suspended without any re-
gard to law or justice, and in whicn the
rest were extorted by a French army,
"which threatened immediate ruin to him
irho diould refuse his consent* The em-
Cror thus chosen, was likewise afterwards
M>gniaed by the saine powera, upon the
mme motives, 'and the aid was granted as
jDie votes were given, by the influence of
the armies of France.
For this reason, my lords, the queen of
Hungary still refuses to give the elector of
,Mvaria the style and honours which be-
wng to the imperial di^iiy, Oxe considers
the throne as still vacant, and requires that
it Aould be filled by an uninfluenced elec-
tion.
It has been dbsenred, my lords, tlat >Ji
majesty gave his vote to the elector of E;-
varia; and it has been therefore repre-
sented as an inconsistency in hk coodur.
that he should make war against him. T J,
my lords, it will by no means follov, ur
because he voted for him, he thinks h^
lawftdly elected, nor that it is unjost u
dispossess him; though it is to be o>
served, .that we are not making war to ^
throne the emperor, however elected, h:
to support the Pra^natic Sanction.
This observation, though somewlm fo-
reign from the present debate, i hsii
thought it not improper to lay before jcks
Iordi£ips, that no scruples might remis
in the most delicate and scrupuLras, acd to
show that the measures or his majeftr
cannot be justly charged with iQC(Si»bt<
eacv.
Dxit this, my lords, is not the only, c<7
die greatest benefit whidi the queen <i
Hungary has received from these troops:
for it is highly probable that the st^rei
wiQ be inducea to concur in the coms^
cause, when they find that they are d-.i
incited to a mock confederacy, when tb^^
perceive that we really intend to act.-
gorously, that we decline neither expaici
nor danger, and that a compliance vin
our demands will not expose them to s&d
alone and unassisted against the power d
France, elated by suecess, and exasperakil
by opposition.
If this, my lords, should be the coBs^
quence c^ our measures, and this cocse-
quence is perhaps not fiir distant, it irH
no longer De, I hope, asserted, that the^
njgrcenaries are an useless buitben to ihi
nation, that they are of no advantage u
the common cause, or that the peopb
have been betrayed by the ministrv irtc
expences, merely that Hanover might be
enriched. When the ^rand confiSerKt
is once revived, and'revived by an unxTer-
sal conviction of the destructive measures,
the insatiable ambition, and the outiagenos
cruelty of the French, what may not the
friends of liberty presume to expect? Mat
they not hope, my lords, that th<«s
haughty troops which h«ve been so lonj
employed in conquests and invasions, that
have laid waste the neighbouring coantria
with slaughters and devastations, wifl be
soon coiiq>eIled to retire to their own fro!>
tiers, and be content to guard the vergf
of their native provinees? Ms^ we noi
[15S]
Hanoverian Troops hiio British Pay.
A. D. 1748.
[1154
tope, that they will soon be driven from
heir pofits ; raat they will be forced to
etreat to a more defensible statiooi and
idmit the armies of their enemies into
heir dominions ; and that they will be
)ursued from fortress to fortress, and from
)ne intrenchment to another, till they
^all be reduced to petition for peace, and
purchase it by the alienation of part of
their territories \
I hope, my lords, it may be yet safely
isserted that the French, however power-
ful, are not invincible ; that their armies
may be destroyed, and their treasures ex-
hausted ; that they may therefore be re-
duced to narrow limits, and disabled from
beingany longer the disturbers of the peace
of the universe.
It is well known, my lords, that their
wealth is not the product of their own
country ; that gold is not dug out of their
mountains, or rolled down their rivers;
but that it is gained by an extensive and
successful commerce, carried on in many
parts of the world, to the diminution of
our own. It is known likewise, that trade
cauDot be continued in war^ without the
protection of naval armaments ; and that
our fleet is at present superior in strength
to those of the greatest part of the uni-
verse united. It is therefore reasonably
to be hoped, that though by assisting the
House of A\&tria we should provoke the
French to dechure war against us, their
hostilities would produce none of those ca-
lamities which seem to be dreaded by part
of this^ House ; and that such a confede-
racy miffht be formed as should be able to
retort all the machinations of France upon
herself, as would tear her provinces from
her, and annex them to otner sovereign-
ties.
It has been urged, that no sucli success
can be expected from the conduct which
we have lately pursued ; that we, who are
thus daring the resentment of the most
mnnidable power in the universe, have
long suffered ourselves to be insulted by
an enemy of far inferior force ; that we
haye been defeated in all our enterprises,
and have at present appeared to desist from
^y design of hostOities: that the Spa-
niards scarcely perceive tnat they have an
enemy, or feet any of the calamities orin-
conveniencies of war; and that they are
every day enriched with the plunder of
Great Britain, without danger, and with-
out labour;
That the war against Spain has not hi-
therto, been remarkably successful, must
IVOL. XIL] ^
be confessed; and though the Spaniards
cahtiot boast of any other advantages tJian
the defence of their own dominions, yet
they may perhaps be somewhat elated, as
they have Deen able to hold out against an
enemy superior to themselves. But, my
lords, I am far from believing, that they
consider the war against us as an advan-
ta^, or that they do not lament it as one
of the heaviest calamities that could &11
upon them. If it be asked, in what part of
their dominions they feel any eflects of our
hostility, I shall answer with great confi-
dence, that they feel them in every part
which is exposed to the evils of a naval
war ; that they are in pain wherever they
are sensible; that they are wounded
wherever they are not sheltered from our
blows, by the mterposition of the nations
of the continent.
If we examine, my lords, the influence
of our European armaments, we shall find
that their ships of war are shut up in the
harbour of France, and that the fleets o^
both nations are happily blocked up toge*
ther, so that they can neither extricate
each other by concerted ^notions, in whicb
our attention might be distracted, and our
force divided, nor by their united force
break through the bars by which they are'
shut up from the use of tne Ocean.
But this, my lords, however important
with respect to us, is perhaps the smallest
inconvenience which the Spaniards feel
from our naval superiority. They have an
army, m^r lords, in Italy, exposed to all
the miseries of famine, while our fleet pro-
hibits the transportation of thosd provi-
sions which have been stored in vessels for
their supply, and which must be probably
soon made defenceless by the want of am-
munition, and M into the hands of their
enemies without the honour of abatde^
But what to the pride of a Spaniard
must be yet a more severe affliction, they
have on Uie same continent a natural con*
federate, who is yet so intimidated by the
British fleets, that he dares neither imord
them refuge in his dominions, nor send hi^
troops to their assistance. The queen,
amiast all the schemes which her un«
bounded ambition forms for the exaltation
of her family, finds her own son, afler hav-
ing receivea a kingdom from her kindness,
restrained from supporting her, and re*
duced to preserve those territories which
she has bestowed upon him, by abandon-
ing her from whom he received, them. .
These, my lords, af e the inconvenienciet
iriiich the Spaniards feel from our fleets in
1155]
16 GEORGE IL
Debate in the Lorde imiaiing
the MediterraDean ; and even tbest, how-
ever embarrassing, however depreasingy
are lighter than tliose which our American
navy pjroducect. It ib apparent, that money
IB equivalent to strength, a proposition of
which, if it could be doubted, the Spanish
monarchy woald afford &u£Bcient proof, as
it has been for a long time supported only
by the power of riches. It is therefore
impossible to weaken Spain more speedily
or more certainly, than by intercepting or
obstructing the annual supplies of gold and
silver which she receives from her Ame-
rican provinces, by which she was once
enabled to threaten slavery to all the neigh-
bouring nations, and incited to begin, with
the subjection of this island, her mighty
acheme of universal monarchy, and by
which she has still continued to exalt her-
aelf to an equality with the most powerful
nations, to erect new kingdoms, and set at
defiance the Austrian power.
These supplies^ my lords, are now, if
not whoUvy yet in a great measure with-
held ; and by all the efforts whicji the Spa-
niards now make, they are exhausting their
vitals, and wasting the natural strength of
their native country. While they made
war with adventitious treasures, and only
squandered one year what another would
repay them, it was not eas^ to foresee how
long their pride would incune them to hold
out against superior strength. While they
were only engaged in a naval war, they
might have persisted for a lon^ time in a
kind of passive obstinacy; and while they
were engaged in no foreign enterprises,
might have supported that trade witn each
other which is necessary for the support
of life, upon the credit of those treasures '
which are annually heaped up in their
store-houses, though they are not received ;
and by which, upon the termmation of the
war, aJl their deots might at once be paid,
and all their funds be re-established.
^ But at present, my lords, their condi-
tion is far aiflferent; they have been tempt-
ed by the prospect of enlarging their ao-
minions to raise armies for distant expe-
ditions, which must be supported in a fo-
reign country, and can be supported only
by re^ulaf remittances of treasure, and
have formed these projects at a time when
the means of pursuing them are cut o£
They have by one war increased their ex-
pences, when their receipts are obstructed
Dy i^nother.
In this state, my lords, I am certain the
Spaniards are very for from thinking the
Ixostility of Great Britain merely nominal,
and from enquiring in what part c ^
world their enemies are to be foond "4
troops in Italy see them sailing in
over the Mediterranean, intercepting
provisions, and prohibiting those boci
which they expected from their
rate of Sicily. In Spain their Uic
their poverty, poverty whicb everrday
creases, intbnn them, tliat Uie sess of Ai
rica are possessed by the fleets of Gn
Britain, oy whom their mines are m
useless, and their wealthy domioioiii:
duced to an empty sound.
They may, indeed, comfort themsclf
in their distresses with the adiasts;
which their troops have gamed orer
king of Sardinia, and with the
which they have forced into his di
but this can a&rd them no long
tion, since they will probably nev&i
able to break through the passes at vi
they have arrived, or to force tbeii
into Italy ; and must perish at the fes
inaccessmle rocks, wnere they are
supported at such an expence, that
are more burthensome to their own
than to the king of Sardinia.
Of this prince I know not whyit bai
been asserted, that he will probably miM 1
his engagements to Great Britain and .W
tria ; Uiat he will purchase peace bj per-
fidy, and grant a passage to thearmja
Spain. His conduct has certainly gWa
hitherto no reason for such an imputitk.
he has opposed them with fortitude asc
vigour, ana address ; nor has 1^ failed b
any of the duties required of a general <?
an ally ; he has exposed his person to tbf
most urgent dangers, and his dominions tt)
the ravages of war ; he has rejiectedaildic
solicitations of France, and set her raenictf
at defiance; and surely, my lords, if do
private man ought to be censured widvoo^
^ust retuon, even in fiuniliar discourse, ve
ought still to be more cautious of injuncfl
the reputation of princes by pubfic re-
proaches in the solemn debates of natiffi^
assemblies.
The same h'centiousness of speech hi
not, indeed,, been .extended to aH the
princes mentioned in this debate. The
emperor has been treated with remarkable
decency as the lawful sovereign 0^ Ger-
many, as one who cannot be opposed
without rebellion, and against whom ^
therefore cannot expect that the troojfS(^
Hanover should presume to act, since th^
must expose their country to theseTeritio
of the imperial interdict.
The noble lords who have thus uie^l
m
Hantfoerian Troops into British Pay.
^],fr irted the rights of the emperor, who
j)Q^e represented in such strong language
1 .^. crime of violating the German consti-
^ Ions, and have commended the neutra-
J ^ ' of the king of Prussia, as proper to be
si..* tated by all the rest of the princes of
^^ .» empire, have forgotten, or hoped that
^lers would forget, the injustice andvio-
'l^ jce by which he exalted himself to the
^ 'i>De, from which they appear to think
- . t sacrilegious attempt to thrust him down,
t ley forget, that one of the votes was
t C^Uy suspended, and that the rest were
J:;torted by the terror of an army. They
"get, that he inwted the French into the
^'*^ipire, and that he is guilty of all the
'f rages which have been committed, and
^^ the blood that has been shed, since the
^ ' ftth of the emperor, in the defence of
P^e Pragmatic S<mction which he invaded,
^^ougfa ratified by the solemn consent of
^' ' e imperial diet
-In aefence of the Pragmatic Sanction,
^- ' y lords, which all the princes of the em-
^ re, except his majesty, saw violated
- Ithout concern, are we now required to
^ cert our force ; we are required only
' • > perform what we promised by the most
ilemn treaties, which, though they have
^ -een broken by the cowardice or ambition
i f other powers, it will be our greatest
onour to observe with exemplary fide-
'ty.
' With this view, as your lordships have
ilready been informed, the Hanoverian
' roops will march into the empire ; nor
las their march been hitherto delayed,
iither because there was yet no regular
fcheine projected, or because they were
obliged to wait for the permission of the
king of Prussia, or because they intended
only to amuse Europe with an empty
show; they were detained, my lords, in
Flanders, because it was believed, that
they were more useful there than they
would be in any other place, because they
at once encouraged tne states, alarmed
the French, defended the Low Countries,
and kept the communication open between
the queen's dominions and those of her
allies. Nor were these advantages, my
lords, chimerical, and such as are only sug-
gested by a warm imagination; for it is
evident that by keeping their station in
those countries, they have changed the
state of die ^^r, that they have protected
the queen of Hungary from being oppress-
ed by a new army of French, ana given
^er an opportunity of establishing herself
in the poaaeasioii of Bavaria ; that the
A, D. 174S.
[I1S8
French forces, instead of being sent either
to the assistance of the king of Spain
against the king of Sardinia, or of the em-
peror, for the recovery of those dominions
which he has lost by an implicit confidence
in their alliance, have been necessarily
drawn down to die opposite extremity of
their dominions, where they are of no use
either to their own country, or t6 their
confederates. The united troops of Great
Britain and Hanover, therefore, carried on
the war, by living at ease in thdr quarters
in Flanders, more efficaciously, than if
they had marched immediately into Ba-
varia or Bohemia.
Thus, my lords, I have endeavoured to
shew the justice of our designs, and the
usefulness of the measures by which we
have endeavoured to execute them ; and
doubt not, but your lordships will, upon »
considering the arguments which have
been urged on either side, and those which
your own reflections wUl suggest, allow
that it was not only just but necessary to
take into our pay the troops of Hanover,
for the support of the Pragmatic Sancdon
and the preservadon of the House of Aus-
tria; and that since the same reasons
which induced the government to hire
them, still make it necessary to retain
them, you will prefer the general happi-
ness of'^Europe, tne observadon of public
faith, and the security of our own liberdea
and those of our posterity, to a small alle*
viation of our present expences, and una-
nimously reject a motion, which has no
other tendency than to resign the world
info the hands of the French, and purchase
a short and dependent tranquillity by (he
loss of all those blessings which make life
desirable.
IjouA Lonsdale 2
My lords; notwithstanding die
confidence with which the late measures
of the government have been defended by
their authors, I am not yet set free from
die scruples which my own observations
had raised,andwhichhavebeen strengthen-
ed by the assertions of those noble lords^
who have spoken in vindicadon of the mo-
don*
Many of the objecdons which have been
raised and enforced with all the power of
argument, have yet remained unanswered,
or those answers which have been offered
are such as leave the argument in its full
strength. Many of the asserdons which
have been produced seem the e&cts of ^
hope radier dian conviction, and we are *
11^9]
16 GEORGE IL
Debait^if^ ti0 Larif on loitflf
[\m
rather told what we are to hope from fu-
ture measures, than what advantages we
have received from the past.
I am, indeed, one of those whom it will
be di£5cult to convince of the propriety of
engaging in a new war, when we are un-
successful in that which we have already
undertaken, and of provoking a more
powerful enemy, when all our atteqapts are
Daffled by a weaJcer; and cannot yet set
myself free from the apprehension of new
defeats and new disgraces from the arms
of France, afler having long seen how
little we are able to punish the insolence
of Spain. I cannot out fear that by an
ill-timed and useless opposition to schemes,
which, however destructive or unjust, we
cannot obviate, we shall subject ourselves
to numberless calamities, that the ocean
will be covered with new fleets of priva-
teers, that our commerce will be mter-
rupted in eyery part of the world, and that
we shall onlv provoke France to seize
what she would at least have spared some
time longer.
But, my lords, if it be granted that the
Pragmatic Sanction is obligatory to us,
though it is violated by every other power ;
that we should labour to reduce the powers
of Europe to an eouipoise, whenever acci-
dent or folly proouces any alteration of
the balance ; and that we are now not to
preserve the House of Austria from &11-
ing, but raise it from the dust, and restore
it to its ancient splendour, even at the
hazard of a war with that power which
now gives laws to aU the western nations ;
yet it will not surely be asserted, that we
ought to be without limits, that we ought
to preserve the House of Austria not only
by the danger of our own country, but by
its certain rain, and endeavour to avert
the possibility of slavery, by subjecting
ourselves to miseries more severe than the
utmost arrogance of conquest, or the most
cruel wantonness of tyranny, would inflict
^pon us.
I have observed, that many lords have
expressed in this debate an uncommon
ardour for the support of the queen of
Hungary; nor is it without pleasure, that
I see the most laudable of all motives, jus*
tjce and compassion, opecate in diis great
assembly with so much force. May your
I6rdships always continue to stand the
great advocates for pubhc fid^h, and the
patrons of true greatness in distress, may
magnanimity always gain your r^ard, and
c^lami^ find shelter under your protec-
tion I
\
I Hkeifife, my Jknrds, derire to beie-
membered among those who leverenoe
the virtues and pij^y the miseries of thv
illustrious princess, who look with detesta-
tion on those who have invaded the domi-
nions which t^e^ had obliged themselTet
by solemn treaties to defend, and who
have taken fulvantag^ of the general con-
federacy against her, to enricm themsdva
with her spoils, who have insulted her
distress, apd aggravated her misfoituDes.
But, my lords, while I feel all these
sentiments of compassion for the queea of
Hungary, I have not yet been aUe to for-
get, that my own country claims a nearer
regard; that I am obliged both by interest
and duty to presepre myself and my poi*
terity, and my fellow-aid>jeGts, from those
miseries which I Ifunent ; when they hap-
Een to others, however distant, I caonet
ut remember, that I am not to save aso-
therfrom destruction by destroying mj-
self, nor to rescue Austria by the ruio of
Great Britain. — Though I am therefore not
unwilling to assist the queen of Hungaij,
\ think it necessary to m the limits orour
regard, to enquire now far we may proceed
with sirfety, and what expences the nation
can bear, ai>d how those expences may be
best employed. The danger of the queen
of Hungary ough^ not to have im^ efect
which woiud be reproachful, even if the
danger was our own. It ought not so &r
to engross our Acuities as to hinder us
from attending to every ^er object.
The man who runs into a greater evil to
avoid a le^s, evidently shows, that he is
defective either in prudence or in counge,
that either he wants the natural power of
distinguishing, or that his dread w an ap-
proaching, or his iinpatience of a present,
evil, had taken it away.
Let us therefore examine, my. lords, the
measures with which Ihose who are intra^
ed with the administration of public aiuis,
would persuade us to concur, and enquire
whether they are such as can be iq^Koved
by us without danscr to our country* Let
us consider, my lords, yet more neailji
whether they are not such as we oorselTes
could not l>e prevailed upon even to t^
gard as the object ofdelitoiitioo> werevs
not dazzled on one part by glanogpros-
Sects of triumphaand honours, of m r^
uction of France, and the reaoaeoftbe
world, of the propi^tion of liberty, v^
the defence of^re^ion, and intimidtted on
t;he other by the view oC approicking c^
lamitickB, the crueltiea of peiaeap^ w
the haid^hipi (]f iloveiy.
161]
Hamunan Ttoopt kdoBrkuk Pay.
A. D. 174$.
[IMf
All the art* of exaggeration, my loris,
ive been practiaed to reconcile us to the
teasures which Bte aowproposed, and in-
eedallare necessary: for theexpences
> which we are d[>oitf to condeipn this
BtioQ are such as it is not id>le to bear,
nd to whidi no lord in this House would
ossent, were he calm enough to number
tie sums.
To prove the truth of this assertion, one
uesdoQ is necessary. Is any lord in this
louse willing to assist the queen of Hun*
ary at the expence of l^fiOOyOOCM. a
ear \ — ^I think the universal silenoe of this
iouse is a sufficient proof that no one is
pilling ; I will however repeat my Quea-
ioD. — iM any lord in this House willing
hat this nation should assist the queen
)f Hungary at the annual expence of
,600,00(tf.r — The House is> as lexpected,
till sUenty and therefore I may now saftly
proceed upon the supposition of an unam-
Dous negative. Nor does any thing re*
nain in order to evince tlie impropriety of
be measures which we are about to pursue,
lut that every lord may reckon up tne sum
equired for the support of those troops.
Let him take il view of our military esti*
nates, and he will quickly be convinced,
boir much we are condemned to suffer in
this cause. He will find, that we are
ibout not only to remit yearly into a
ibreign country more than a milhon and a
luilf of money, but to hazard the lives of
multitudes of our fellow-subjects, in a
■quarrel which at most affects us but re*
notely; that we are about to incur as
auxiliaries an expence greater than that
vhich the principals sustain.
The sum which I have mentioned, my
iords, enormous as it may appear, is by no
means exaggerated beyond the truth.
Whoever slum examine Uie common mill*
tarj estimates, will eas9y be convinced,
that the forces which we now maintain
opoD the continent cannot be supported
it less expence ; and that we are therefore
>l>out to fxhaust our country in a distant
quarrel, and to lavish our blood and trea-
wre with useless profusion.
This profusion, my lords, is useless, at
■^^ useless to any other end, than an
<^eutatious display of our forces, and our
f^es; not because the balance of power
B irrecoverably destroyed, not because it
|« contrary to the natural interest of an
ttland to engage in wars on the continent,
^or because we shall lose more by the
(uminutiofi oi'our commerce, than we shall
8^ by an annual victaiy. It ia usaless,
not be^nise the power of France has by
l<mg nealigence been suffiBred to swell be*
yond all opposition, nor because the que^i
of Hungary ought not to he assisted at the
haaard of this kitigdoro, though all these
reasons are of importance enough to cUiim
our consideration. It is useLess, my lords,
because the queen of Hungary may be
assisted more powerfully, at less charge,
because a thira part of this sum will enable
her to raise, and to maintain, a greater
body of Dien than have now been sent
her.
Nor will the troops which she may be
thus enabled to raise, iny lords, be only
more numerous, but more likely to prose*
cute the war with ardour ; and to con*
dude it therefore with success. They
will fight for the nreservation of their own
country, thev wul draw theur swords to
defend their houses and their estates, their
wives and their children, from the rage of
grants and invaders ; they will enter the
field as men who cantiot leave it to their
enemies without resigiiing all that makes
life valuable; and who will therefore
more willingly die than turn their backs.
It xna^ reasonably be imagined, my
lords, that the queen will place more confi*
dence in such forces, than in troops whidi
are to fight only for honour or for pay;
and that she will expect from the affection
of her own subjects, a degree of zeal and
constancy which she cannot hope to excite
in foreigners : and ^'at she will think her*
^elf more secure in the protection of those
whose fidelity she may secure by the so*
lemnity of an oath, than those who have
no particular regard for her person, nor
any obligations to suj^rt her govern*
ment.
It is no inconsiderable motive to this
method of assisting our ally, that we shall
entirely take away from France all pre*
tences of hostilities or resentment, since
we shall not attack her troops or invade
her firontiers, but only furnish the queen
of Hungary with money, without directing
tket how to apply it. I am far, my lords,
from being so much intimidated by the
late increase of the French greatoess, aa
to imagine, that no limits can be set to
their ambition. I am far from despairing,
that the queen of Hungary alone, support*
ed by us with pecuniary assistance, may
be able to reduce them to solicitations for
peace by driving them out of her domi*
nions, and pursuing them into their own.
But as the chance of war is^ always uncer*
tain, it is surely jnost prudent to chuae
IIW]
16 GEORGE II.
Ddaie in the Lords on taUng
[1164
tacha conduct as may exempt in from
danger in all events; and since we are
not certain of conquering the French, it
IS, in my opinion, most eligible not to
provoke them, because we cannot be con-
quered without ruin*
This method is yet eligible on another
account; by proceeding with frugality,
we shall gain time to observe the progress
of the war, and watch the appeairance of
any fiivourable opportunity, without ex-
hausting ourselves so &r as to be made
unable to improve thenu
The time, my lords, at which we shall
be thus exhausted, at which we shall be
reduced to an absolute inability to raise an
army or equip a fleet, is not at a great dis-
tance. If our late profusion be for a short
time continued; we shall quickly have
drained Uie last remains of the wealth of
our country. We have long eone on from
year to year, raising taxes and contracting
debts; and unless the ri/dies of Great
Britain are absolutely unlimited, must in a
short time reduce them to nothing. Our
expences are not aU, indeed, eqvuilly de-
structive; some, though the method of
raising them be vexatious and oppressive,
do not much Impoverish the nation, be-
cause they are refunded 1>y the extrava-
gance and luxury of those who are re-
tained in the ^y of the court; but foreign
.wars threaten unmediate destruction, since
the money that is spent in distant countries
can never fidl baoc into its former chan-
nels, but is dissipated on the continent,
and irrecoverably lost.
When this consideration is present to
mv mind, and on this occasion no man
who has any regard for himself or his pos-
terity can omit it, I cannot but think witii
horror on a vote bj which such prodigious
sums are wafted into another region: I
cannot but tremble at the sound of a tax
for the support of a foreign war, and think
a French army landed on our coasts not
much more to be dreaded than the annual
payment to which we appear now to be
condenmed, and from which nothing can
preserve us but the Address which is now
proposed.
By what arguments the Commons were
persuaded, or by what motives incited, to
vote a supply for the support of this mer-
cenary force, I hav^ not yet heard ; nor
' as a member of this House, my lords, was
it necessary for me to enquire. Their au-
thority, thoujg;h mentioned with so much
solemnity on this occasion, is to have no
influence on our determinations* If they
are mistaken, it is more necemry for as
to enquire with uncommon caution. If
they are corrupt, it is more necessary for
us to preserve our intwi^. If we are ta
comply blindly with their dedsions, our
knowledge or experience are of no benefit
to our country, we only waste time in use-
less solemnities, and may be once more de-
clared useless to the public-
The Ccmimons, my lords, do not ima-
gine themsdves, nor are imagined by the
nation, to constitute the legislatnTe, The
people, when any uncommon heat pre-
vails in the other House, disturbs their de-
bates, and over-rules thcdr determinatiwis,
have been long accustomed to expect re-
dress and security from our calmer coun-
sels ; and have considered this House as
the place where reason and justice may be
heara, when by clamour and uproar they
are driven from the other. On this occaaon
my lords, every Englishman fixes his ejei
upon us, and every man who hass^idtT
enough to discover tl^e dismal approach of
public poverty, now simi^icaftes your lord-
ships, by agreeixig to tms Addrns to pre-
serve him from it.
Lord Chancellor Hardwich .*
My lords; having very attentiveij
observed the whole progress of this im-
portant debate, and considered with the
utmost impartiality the arguments whkh
have been made use of on each aide, I can-
not think the Question brfore oa doubcy
or difficult ; and hope that I may promote
a speedy decision of it by recs^itulatin^
what has been already nrged, that the de*
bate may be considered at one 'view, aitd
by adding some observations which have
arisen to my own thoughts on this occasioiL
At the first view of the question before
us in its present state, no man can find sbv
IS for prejudice in favour of tiie Ad
dress proposed. This House is, indeed,
yet divided, and many lords hsve spokea
on each side with greatforce and with great
adflress; but the authori^ oi the other
House, added to the numbers which havea]*
ready declaredin this for the support of the
foreign troops, js sufficient to turn the bs-
lance, in the opinion of any man who con-
tentshimself tojudgeby thefirsti^ipeaiaDce
of things ; and must incline hiin to imagine
that position at least more probable, w&di
is ratified by the determination of ooe
House, and yet undecided by the other.
I know, my lords, what may-}>e objected
to these oiiservations on the imtr Hoosei
and readily agree with the noble lord» thss
B5]
llanowrhn Troopi into Bri^A Tay, A. D. 1749*
riiGo
ir detenmnations ought not to be in-
duced by theirs. But on this occasion^
Introduce their decision not as the de*
ees of legislators, but as the result of
ecoosideration of wise men ; and in this
Bse it naj be no less reasonable to quote
e determination of the Commons, than
introduce the opinion of any private
ID whose knowledge or experience gives
I opinion a claim to our regard.
Nor do I mention the weight of wltho-
tf on one side as sufficient to influence
e private determination of any in this
0086. It is the privilege and the duty
'every man, who oossesses a seat in the
^bett council of nis country, to make
e of his own eyes and his own under-
indingy to reject those arguments of
liich & cannot find the force, whatever
bet they may have upon odiers, and to
icfaarge the great trust conferred upon
m by consulting no conscience but his
m.
Yet thoujgh we are by no means to suffer
e determinations of other men to repress
IT enquiries, we may certainly make use
them to assist them ; we may very pro-
iriy therefore enquire the reasons that
iuced the other House to approve those
k ndiich are brought before them, since
Ik not likely that Uieir consent was ob-
Ised without arguments, at least pro-
Vkf though they are not to be by us
nodered as conclusive upon their au«
crity. The chief advanta^ which the
Idic receives from a legidature formed
several distinct powers, is, that all laws
Mt pass through many deliberatbns of
lemhlies independent on each other, of
lich, if the one be agitated by faction, or
(tracted by divisions, it may be hoped,
it the other will be calm and united, and
.whkh it can hardly be feared, that
qr can at any time concur in mea-
res apparently d^tructive to the com-
mweakh.
Bat these enquiries, my lords, however
oifer or necessary, are to be made by us
i in solemn assemblies, but in our private
sracters; and theref4we I shall not now
r before your lordships what I have heard
im those whom I have consulted for the
ice of obtaining information on this im-
rtant question, or shall at least not ofier
18 the opinion of the Commons, or pre-
id to adid to it any influence different
m that of reason and truth.
The arguments which have been of-
"ad in thift debate for the motion, ase in-
ed such as do not make any uncommon
expedients necessary, tbey will not drivo
the advocates for the late measures to
seek a refuge in authority instead of rea-
son. They require, in my opinion, only
to be considered with a calm attention,
and their force will immediately be at an
end.
The most plausible objection, my lords,
is, that the measures to which your appro-
bation is now desired, were concertea and
executed witliout the concurrence of par-
liament; and it is therefore urged, that
they cannot now deserve our approba-
tion, because it was not asked at tne pro-
per time.
In order to answer this objection, mj
lords, it is necessary to consider it more
distinctly than those Who nmde it appear
to have done, that we may not suffer our-
selves to confound questions re«l and per-
sonal, to mistake one object for anotner,
or to be confounded by difierent views.
That the consent of parliament was not
asked, my lords, supposme it a neglect,
and a ne^ect of a criminal Idnd, of a ten-
dency to weaken our authority, and shake*
the foundations of our constitution, which
is the utmost that the most ardrat imagi-
nation, or the most hypeibolical rhetoric
can utter or suggest, may be indeed a just
reason for invective against the ministers,
but is of no force if urj^ a^nst the
measures. To take auxiliaries m our pay
minr be right, though it mi^ht be wrong
to hire them without applying to parlia-
ment ; as it is proper to tnrow water upon
a fire, though it was conveyed to the
,place without the leave of those from whose
well iit was drawn, or over whose ground it
was carried.
If the liberties of Europe be really in
danger, if our treaties oblige us to assist
the queen of Hungary aeainst the in-
vaders of her dominions, if the ambition
of France requires to be redressed, and
the powers of Grermany to be animated
against her by the certain prospect of a
vigorous support, I cannot discover the
propriety ot this motion, even supposing
that we have not found from the minister!
all the respect that we have a right to de-
mand. Ab a lawful authority may do
wrong, so right may be sometimes done
by an unlawful power ; ,and Surelv, though
usurpation ought to be punishea, the be-
nefits which have been procured by it are
not to be thrown away. We may retain
the troops that have been hired 4f they are
useful, tnouffh.we should censure the ni*
nisti; for taxiiig them into pay*
11«7]
16 GEORGE II.
IM^imthtLonbmUAmg
[IMS
But the molion to which ovr concur^
mice k nofir required, is a motieii by
whidi we are to punish onndves for me
crime of theaiioisterBy by which we are
about to leave oursdves defencelesBy be-
cause we have been armed without our
consent, and to rengn up all our rights
and privileges to riance^ because we
suspect^ that they have not been sufi-*
dently regarded on this occasioii by our
Bunisters.
Those noble lords who have dwdt with
the greatest ardour on this omission, have
made no proposition for censuring those
whom they condemn as the authors of it,
though tms objection must terminate in
an enauiry into their conduct, and has no
real relation to the true question now be*
fore us, which is, whether the auiuliaries
be of any use? If they are useless, they
oufi^ to be disdiarged without any other
reason ; if they are necessary, they ought
to be retained, whatever censure may fall
upon the ministry.
I am, indeed, fkk* from thinking, that
when your lordships have sufficiently exa*
mined the affidr, you will think your pri-
vileges invaded, or the pubKc trepanned
by artifice into e^cpensive measaree; sinee
it will appear; that the ministry in r^icy
preferred the meet honest to the siAst
methods of proceeding,* and ehose ntther
to hazard themselves, diait to prsetise or
appear to practise any fraud upon their
country*
When it was resolved in council tatriw
the troops of Hanover into the pay of
Great Britain, a reeohn^on Which, as your
lordships have ahrcady been raformed, was
made only a few dayn before parliament
rode, it was natural to consider, whether
the consent of parliament should not be
demanded; but when it appeared upon
reflection, that to bring ah aflbw or so
great importance before the last remnant
of a House of Commons, afler fiur the
greater part had retired to the care of
thdir own aflkirs, would be suspected as
fraudulent, and might give the nation re»
SOB to fear, that such measurer were in*
tended as the ministers were afrahl of lay-
ings before a full paiiiament ; it was thought
more proper to defbr the application to
the next session, and to venture upon the
measures that were' formed, upon a fcdl
conviction of their necessity.
This conduct, my lords, wiis exactly
cmifonnable to the demands of those, by
w^m thetsourt has hitherto been opposM,
a&d who faaveaignaiaed theoMelves aa the
mostwatGhfiilguafdiaBsofHierty. Aoxng
these meut votes of credit hare nerer
been mentioned but with detsstatiaD, ai
acts orimnlicit confidence, bj which the
riches of tae nation are thrown dowost
the feet of the ministry to be tquandend
at pleasure. When it has been ai^
that emergencies may arise, daring tk
recess of parliament, which may produce
a necessity of expences, and that thel^
fore some oredit ou^t to be given which
may enable the crown to provide againit
accidents, it has been answered, that tb
expences which are incurred dnrii^the
recess of parliament, will be either neces-
sary or not ; that if they are Decessan-,
the ministry have no reason to distnuttbe
approbation of parliament, but if thej ve
useless, they ou^ht not to expect it Asd
that, instead of desiring to be exempted
from any subsequent censures, and to be
secured in exactions or prodigality by a
previous vote, they ought willingly to ad-
minister the public affiurs at their on
haaard, and await the judgment of pv-
liameot, when the time uudl oome, io
which their proceedings are hud hefineit
Such have hidierto been the wuAam
of the most aealous advocstAfar theiightt
of thepeoj^e; aor did I expect ton s^
man who de^red to aapear under tbit
character,' that he would ceasore the ai-
nistry for haviaa. thrown theaacheiapoa
the judgptoenl of parltameot, and negieet-
ed to aectoe themselves by any picfioa
applications^ for having trusted m their
own iategn^, and exposed their oondoct
to an open OxaminatiOD without aobic?*
ftages and -without precautioiii. Ididaoc
imaging my kwds, that apariisnieBtQiMiQ
whose decisioB all the meaiarea viucb
have been taken* so i^^^arently depeal
would have been stfled a parlisment con-
vened aoiy to register the detenmoatlotf
ofthemioistry; or that any cf your bid*
ships would think his privifeces dimmlA*
ed, beoaose mobey was not cmandedb^
fore the use of it was fully known.
If we lay aside, my locdr, sU eot^
into precedents, and, without re^ f
aby political considerations, exaamU^
afiir Only by the light of reaaon, itv*
surely appear, that the ministry oouM s<%
by any other method of proceeding, hm
shown eqiad regard to pirliaaieBt, orefi
confideoce irr their justice and their ^^
dom. Had they desired a viyte of credit
it might have been justly dgected, thtf
they required to be trusted iHlfa i^^
lie noDey^ withottt 4eclariDg^ or bciif
tI09]
ible to dectet, how it wis to be eoiplo^-
ed; that either they ^oeftiooed the wis*
dom or hooes^ of parliament ; and there*
fore durst undertake nothing, till they
irere secure of the supplies neocesary for
the execution of it* Had thev informed
Mti Houses of their whoie scheme,
they might have been still charaed, and
diaiged with great appearance of justice,
with havmg preferred their own safety to
that of the public, and having rather dis*
covered their designs to the enemy than
trusted to the judgment of parliament; nor
could any excuse have been made for aoon-
dactso contrary to all the rules of war, but
such as must Have dishonoured either the
ministers or parliament, such as mast
have implied, either that the measures in*
tended were unworthy of approbation, or
that they were by no means certain that
even the best conduct would not becen*
lured.
These objections they fi>resaw, and al-
lowed to be valid ; ana therefore gene*
roudy determined to pursue the end which
every man was supposed to approve, by
the best means which they could discover,
sod to refer their conduct to a full par*
liament, in which they did not doubt but
their intemtr* and perhaps their success,
would find them vindicators. Instead of
applying, therefore, to the remains of the
Commons, a few days before the general
recess; milead of assembling their friends
by private intimations, at a time when
BHMt of those, from whom they might have
dreaded opposition, had retired, they de-
termined to attempt, at their own haoard,
whatever they jndgied necessary for the
promotioQ of the common cause, and to
refer their aseasures to parliament, when
itah6a]dbe again assembled.
The manner in which one of the noble
lords, who have spoken in support of the
Address, has thought it necessary that
they should have applied to us, is indeed
somewhat extraordinary, such as is cer-
tainly wilhout precedent, and such as is
not very consistent with the constituent
tights or the different powers of the leais*
hture. His lordship has been pleased to
tonark, that the crown has entered into a
treaty, and to ask why that treaty was not
previoosly laid before parliament for its
appiebation?
I know not, my lords, with what pro-
pnsty this contract for the troops of Ha-
aover can be termed a treaty. It is well
known, thkt no power in this'kingdom can
enter into a treaty 1^ a foreign State ca>
IVOLXU.]
A. IX 174S.
[iiro
oept the king; and it is equally certain,
that, with regard to Hanover, the same
i%bt is limited to the elector. This
treaty therefore, my lords, is a treaty
of we same person with himself, a
treaty of whidi the two counterparts are
to receive their ratification from beings
signed with' the same hand. This surely
is a treaty of anew kind, such as no na*»
tional assembly has yet considered. Had
any other power of Great Britain than ite
kihg, or in Hanover any other than th»
^elector, the right of entering into pidilic
engagements, a treaty mijjht have been
made ; but as the constitution of both na«
tions is formed, the treaty is merely chi«
merical and absolutely impossible.
Had such a treaty, as is thus vainly ima^
gined, been really noade, it would yet be
as inconsbtent with the fundamentid es*
tablishment of the kingdom, to reouii»
that before it was ratifira, it should tiav»
been laid before parliament. To mak»
treaties, as to make war, is the acknow*
lodged and established prerogative of tna
crown. When war is dedared, the pariia*
ment is indeed to consider, whether it
ought to be carried on at the ezpence of
the nation ; and if treaties requireany sup^
plies to put them in execution, they like*
wise fail properly at that time under par-
liamentary cognizance : but toreijuire that
treaties smdl not be transacted without our
previous concurrence, is almost to annihi*
late the power of the crown, and to expose
all our desiffna to the opposition of our
enemies, before they can he completed.
If therefore the troops of Hanover can
be of use for the performance of our stipu*
lations, if thOT can contiibute to the sup*
port of the House of Austria, the ministry
cannot, in my opinion, be censured for
having taken them into 'British pay ; nor
can we^refuse our concurrence with tfao
Commons in providing for their support,
unless it shall appear, that the design for
whidi all our preparations have been made,
is such as cannot be executed, or such aa
oittdht net to be pursued. >.
. Several arguments have been offered to
prove both these positions; one noble
ford has asserted, tnat it is by no means
for the advantage either of ourselves or
any oUier nation, to restore the House
of Austria to iu ancient elevation ; ano«
•dtier, that it is by the imperial constitutions
unlawful for any of the princes of German]^
to make war upon the emperor solemnly
acknowledged by the diet. They have
endeavouxM to mliroidate uSy by tiuning
mi] 16 GEORGS n.
por Tiar to Ae ^iflcokieg bjr«ridliitrar
attempto ereobalnioted; diffi<»iltiei wUch
Aej affeefe to represent as imuperebk^ «l
lewt to this neiion m its oreseoi state.
With this desKDy my lords, Aas the gneat*
■ess of the Freadi power been exttgtp*
vftiedl, the feitb of the kiof of Sar&iia
qaestioned, and tfie kinff S iPrassta re-
presented as detenninea to aupiMHt the
pretensions of the emperor; with' this
inew has oor natural strength been deptse-
ciated^ and aU oyr measiures and hopes
hare been ridicoled, with wantonness, not,
yetj^ consistent with the eharaoter of •
Aritisb patriot.
> Most of these argnments, my lords,
have been alreadyanswered, and answered
in siich a manner as has, I bdieve, not
Med of oonvincing erery nc^Ie lord of
their insufficiency, unless pertums those
are to be excepted by whom they were
eftred. It has with great propriety been
ebserved, thait the inoonsiatency imputed
to his majesty in opposing the emperor fiir
whom he Toted, is merely imaginary;
since it is not a necessary consequence,
that he for whom he toted is therefine
fauriblly dected; and because his majesty
does not engage in this war for the sake
ef dethroning the emperor, but of sup-
porting the raigmadc Sanction ; nor does
ne oppose him as the head of the German
body, but as the inmder of the dominions
of Aiistria.
With regardtothe propriety of mttntain-
hig the Austnaa famny m its present pos-
sessions, and of raisusg it, if oor arms shodd
be orosperotts, to its ancient greatness, it
has oeen shown, that no other po^^rer is
able to defend Europe either against the
Turts on one part, or the fteiMh on the
other; two poweva e^liy paoiessug the
destructi?e mtention of 4^tendiftg their
'ddtunions witihoutlisdts, nnd of tramjolmg
upon the privfleges and liberties -of -m the
te^ of mankind.
It has been fihown» diat the genend
aeheme of policy unifomdy puiaued by
our ancestors in every period ef line,
since the increase of the French greatness,
has been to presenre an equipoise of power,
by which idl the snuiUer stales am pve-
aert ed in securitjr. It is apnaiieiit, that
by thi^ scheme alone can the napptaesa of
mankind be presenred, and that nooth^
fimiily but that of Austria is able •to'ba-
Ifnce the House of Bourbon*
• This equipotte of power has by aome
Bohie loros been imagtnedrnn airy sdieiae,
#pleasbg^ptieulatiMi ^diicby however it
SAiema^LMbmfMig
[Its
Sanwse the HMipnaltet efta hsver ti
oed to fMraotiee. TrhnsbwasMLiiui
that the slate of nations is ahraysnoAh^
that dotninion is ever|r day ionrfmib
ambition or by caanalties, that iaheritmM
M Inr went of heirs into other haadi^ ml
that kingdooM are by one aceidsntdiviU
at on^ time, and at odwr times enwl^
dated by odifierent event; thattoheAs
Ettans of aU those, whose aeUiijv«
may betrqrthensto comrwiikte
thtk of an artfid neMlAeor, sal 1»
promote the oppressimi of thpiwKhi%ii
an Aidless task; aadthattoobmlsdtib
accidents by which ptovinoes oh^ cta^i
their mast^ns, k an undertaking tsvhUb
no human foresighaia equal; mtvshm
not • t^ to hinder the canne of aieQ»
sion for our qwn intemt, nor to ohtraa
those contracta which independent pnstn
are persuaded to aulDe, hovever etatar
to their own interest, or tothegeaenlii
Tteitageof maukkid. Andithasbstam.
duded by tiuae raasoDtes, that we dudi
show the highest degree of wiMlsBi^«i
tlm truest, thoudi not the mast nW
policy, by attendm^ oteadMy toesr sm
mterest, by improvmg Ae dissBBMDi 4
our neighbours to our own adranti^e^bf
extendmg our eomaseroe^ and iacnaif
our riches, without anv r^gsad to liie h»
piness or miaenrtiraaaamor sfawoy rfm
restofmankiadL
I behflwo i need not weaj ishmisdi
coliect arguments to umm to fomim
ships, that this aGheme of seiUi nph
genoe, of anpaie tBran9ii]iity,i8aqiai)r»
prudent and ungenerous; ainoe if «ei»
mine the Ustory of liw last ceafcof,*
shall easibyr discover, that if ^aslisBU
nocin|erpBaBd,die;FiE8ncfa hadnsetes
masters of moae thaninlf Samps; rnkk
cannot be imagine^ timti (they wooUlne
soiEaaediiB toaet timttt ddmnss p^bi
midst of thrngteatneasyAatihsfwII
have spared' oa out; of teudamss^srli^
boniotoattadcuaoufeofAer* Wuida
SpaniOfda atturoptad, though oanna^
fully, Gnm si utau diMnS naiTif da
world, in die pride ef their AmehMi^
Aueoee, weoU emtamly Juwoiieea aue
more endeavoured by Franoe, ailhii
greater advuntajgea, aan us it 1
gined, with a-diTOreut>eHBnt*
That it would have been
cannot he deidrted, 1
would not hove beeuhuBBedooi; ^«sf
defeating our fleets sthsynnaht ImaiUr
faces, wUfldi mf^tim wMsi^eisr sis
wyobert<iaa»/^ahi4yxuais|^fie>>y
1173]
Ttdif$mhaf4MP09. 1.1X1718.
[117*
ill tilt Uaodp or thttt
put of It al koBl which m mq/A worth tho
labour of eon^ietl; and though thej
■boold be ninrrpitfiJ, they ooiiid waSar
BOthing but tho mortiflcaliQii 'of their
Biidot ODd mooU bo in a short tiiiie eiUH
Ued to moke a new attempt.
Thety Hj lofdB^ if we.oould preeonre oar
Vbehj km the geeeial niiijaetion of the
weitem peirt of the worldt weshodd do it
only bj taming our island into a ganison»
by layuig aside all other empkmneDt tiMa
the jm^ of war^ and by making it our
only care to watch our eoasta: a state
iHuoh anrelyoughtto be avoided at ahnost
aay ezMoce aDod ataay haaard.
To tttt&k that we could extend.omr trade
er inereaae eur riches in this state of the
ooBtinenty is te UnrBOt the effisets of unt*
f eisal empiicw The Fmidi, my lords^
would then be in pesoesskm of all UM trade
of those prarmoes which they had oon*
qneredy they would be masters of aH their
pertly and ef all their shipping; and your
iordshipe mm oasity conceive with what
security we ehecdd venture upon the ocean,
in a state of war» when all the harbouxs ef
the eentiDent aibrded sfadter So our ene-
If the Branch privateers fipom a fcw
oreeksy unsupported by a fleet ef
wsr, or at least not supported by a navy
equal to our own, coula make audi devas-
tadeoa m eur trade as enabled thefar ooun<*
tiytoheidoatagamstthe oonfederamr of
dmostaU the neigUmuring powers; what,
m lerds^ miqfat net be dreaded by us,
men every ship upoDthe ocean dioiddee
an enemy $ when we shoidd be at once
orertmnie hy the weakh and the numbers
ef our adversaries; when the trade of the
worid should be m their haads^ and their
Bsvies BO lem numerous than their troops ?
I have made this digrossioo, nqr lords, I
kepe net wholy widwot deoessity, to show
that the advaatages efpiessmnff the equ^
peise ef £urepe are not. as theyhare been
idkaetboa; but that by Om bahnoe of
eae aatien agsiBst anotfaar^bedk the srfefy
ef other eeustries and ef our own is pre*
and that therefore k rnfuires aH^
and all our reeokitfam to es*
it.
a tiase in which
That theiemMr con
^iischeme witt be ao km^ praotioaUe,
^^ a coalithm of dominions nay be in*
•vitiibl^ and when one power will be ne^
«imriiy exslted abeve die rest, is indeed
Bgtitik
act te be inJkired, that our care is vala at
present, becease^ aerhaps^ it may soose
time be vain hereatter; or that we oi^il
now to sink into slavery without a 8tru0|lc^
because the time na^ come, when ^m
strongest eibrto wfll be inefectuaL
It has indeed been ahasest asserted, Aat
the fiital hour is now arrived, and that it
is to no purpose that we endeavour te
raise any mrther opposition to the univer-
sal monarchy projected by Franoe. We
are told» that ttie nation is exhausted and
dispirited ; that we have neither inflioead^
nor riches, nor courage rematnin^ ; that
we shall be left to stead akme against the
united House ef Bourbon ; that the Ana*
trians cannot, and that the Dutch will net
essistus; that the long of Sardinia will de^
aerthisaNianee;4hat>hekinffof Prussia
has dedared agaiBSt us; and therefore^
that by eiHmin|^ in the euppoK ef die
Pragmatic Sttction, we are shout to dsaer
upbn ourselves diet rum w^oh every other
power has foresee^ aad shunned.
I am &r ftem denyiag^aBy lords, that
the power of France if great and daa^,
flsrotts; but can draw. no conseqdeaee
from that position^ but that this force isie
be opposed before h » stiU ^esater, aal
this danger te be obviated wfade it is pet
surmountable, and surmountaUe I stiQ W
Iseve it by mumimity and ceufWB.
If our wealth, my lords, is cuaaaishe^
it it time te confine the commerce ef dut
nation by which we have been drtven oat
of the markets of the contineBt, 1^ destoojr^
iog thttr shipping, and intereeptiag their
merchants. If our courage is depressed^
it is depressed not by any diange in the
nature of the mhabitanU of das ishm^
but by a long course ef m^oricws conqple*
anoe with the demands, and of mean subi
mittioB to the insuks <rf other nathms,^
which it is necessary to put aa end by v^
gorous lesoluttons.
If our allies are tnnorous and waveriag^
it h aecessary to'eacoaragethem by vige^
lous measures ; for as fear, so courage, is
produced by exam|^ : the bmvery of a
eingle man amy withhold an army frem
fl^t, and other aatione wiH be ashamed
to discover any dread of that power whreh
France akme seta at defiance. Theywii
be less afraid to deckure their intenfioas^
when they are convinoed that we intend
to stt|^ort them; and if there be, m ve^
aUtv, anv prince Who does not favour our
design, he will be at loMt lem inclmed ta
obstruct it, as he finds the oppeotMn^
1175]
16 tlEOKGE n.
P1T6
For diift reisms tny lotdt, I am fiur from
discovering tho justnest oip the optnioa
which has prevafled ^ry mach in the na^
tioR, on this occasion, that we are not to
act withdat aUies, because allies are most
easily to be procured by acting, and be*
cause it is reasonable ana necessary for us
to perfonn our part, however other powers
ni^ neglect theirs.^
The advice which parliament has often
repeated to his majesty, has been to op*
pose the progress of France ; and theugh
It should be aJlowed, that he has been ad-
vised to proceed in concert with his allies,
yet it must be understood to suppose such
allies as may be found to have courage and
lionesty enough to concur with him. It
cannot be intended, that he should delay
his assistance till corruption is reclaimed,
or till cowardice is animated ; for to pro*
mise the queen of Hungary assistance on
auoh terms, would be to insult her calami*
tiea, and to withhold our succours till she
was irrecoverably rained. The parliament
iBoiild not insist that we should stand neu-
ter, till all those^ who were etosaged by
irea^ to support the Pkaffmadc Suction,
•hould appMT wiffing to fulfil their stipu-
lations; for even France is to be numbered
amonff those who have promised to sup-
fiort ^te House of Austria in ito posses-
sions, however she may now endeavour to
lake them away.
£ven with regard to that power froHa
which most assistance may be reasonably
expected, nothing would be more impru-
dent than to dedare, that we determine
jaot to act without them ; for what then
would be nece8Bar}% but that the French
Influence one town in their provinces, or
<me deputy in their assembbes, and ruin
4he House of Austria in security and at
leisure, without any other expence than
4hatofabribe?
It was therefore necessary to trsnsport
our troops into Flanders, to show the
worid, that we were no longer inclined to
•tand idle spectators of the troubles of Eu-
rope ; that we no longer intended to amuse
ourselves, or our confederates, with nego*
ciations which might produce no treaties,
or with treaties whidi mi^t be broken
.whenever the violation of them afibrded
any prosoect of that advantage ; we were
now resolved to sacrifice the pleasures of
neutrality, and the profits of peaceful traf*
fio, to the security of the hboties of Eu*
aone, and the observation of public fiuth.
This neceanty was so generally allowed^
iiM when the ^ body of t^ w
sent orer, no obj^etion was made bjr Aosa
whoflMind themselves incfined to iiiiifwi
the conduct of our affinia, but that ihc^
were not suflkiently muneroos to 4^ '
themsehres, and would be taken
by a French deladunent; the
were therefixe asked, why tii^ ^d
send a larger force, why mj eatg/aged m
hostilities, whidi coofd o^y nnae the
kughter of our eneimes, and whj, if they
intended war, they did not imae on anay
sufficient to prosecote it«
An army, ray lords, an amqr trd^ ftr-
midable, is now raised, and aamniiifwl on
the fWmtien of France, readk to asaist ow
ally ; and to put a st^^ to the yioleace of
mvasions. We now see omnsdves once
again united with the House of Aaatria,
and may hope once more to drive the op-
presBon of mankind before ua. But now,
my lordb, a damour is propagated duoa^
the nation, that these measurea which bne
been so long desired, are pemicioiia and
treacherous; that we are armed not agaiait
France, but against ourselvea; that oiar
armies areaent over eidier not to fight, or
to fight in a quarrel in which we have no
concorn ; to gain victories from wiiich this
nation will receive no advantage, or to
bring new dishoaoor upon their
by a shameful inactivity.
This damour, which, if it hadbeanc
fined to the Tulgar, had been, pertiaps, of
no great importance, nor ooold have pio-
moted any of the designsof thoeeby whom
it was raised, has been mentioned m dus
House aaan argument in favour of the am-
tion which is now under Uie copaideration
of your lordships ; and it has been vrgeAf
that these measures cannot be jMoper, be-
cause aO measures, by which fass majesty^
government is made unpopular, uustin wb
end be destructive to tne nation*
On this occasion, my lorda, it is neeea-
sary.to consider the nature of popaiarity,
and to enquire how far it is to be oeaaider-
ed in the adnunslbation of public afiUrs.
If by popularity is meant only a aadden
shout of iqpplause, obtained b^ a oompli-
anoe with the present indiaattan of the
people, however exdted, or of whatsoever
tenoency, I ahall without acnqple dedare,
that popularity is to |»e despised; it is to
be despised, my lords, becanae it cannot
be preserved without abandoab^ atmeh
more valuable conaideratbas. l£e inch*
nations of the people have in all a^as been
too variable for^segasd; Bat if hy popa>
huity be meant thahaettiedcoi '^ '
Meeai^ which a ipwd
ITT]
^MMMtHM TfodoM ImIa MfiiM Pan*
A. IX 174S.
[117$
«^ jait^ dnm Ihu the ciAjeet, I am
r from dBDyingthat it istndy derirable;
ad tliat no wise man ever diaregarded it.
lot tidf popularity, my lords, it very con-
itaat with contempt of riotous damoors,
sd of mistaken comphuiAs \ aad is oftra
aly to be obtained by an opposition to the
rigniog opinions, and a n^lect of tem-
siary discontents; opinions whidi may
t inculcated without difficulty by ^
oolite oratoft, and discontents whicn the
EMnience of seditious writers may easily
rodoce on ignorance and inconstancy.
How casfly the opinions of the tulgar
isy be regulated by those who have ob*
linedy by whatever methods, their esteem,
be debate of this day, my lords, may in-
nm us ; since if the measures against
rhich this motion is intended, be realhr
npopolar, as they have been representee!,
^» evident that there has been lately a
«y remarkable change in the sentiments
I the nation ; for it is yet a very little time
iace the repression of ^e insolence of
^nacBf and the relief of the oueen of
lusgary was so generally wisheo, and so
mportunately demanded, that had mea-
ures like these been then formed, it is
lot improbable that they might have re-
mcfled the public to that man, whom the
mited voice, of the nation has long laboured
ooverbear*
It is indeed urged widi a degree of con-
idence^ which ought, in ray opmion, td
irooeed ftom stronger proorthan has yet
wen produced, that no hostilities are in-
ended;' that our armaments on the con-
iBeatave.an idle show, an inoffisnsive os-
entation, and that the troops of Hanover
lave been hired only to ennch the electo-
ale, under the appearance of assisting the
laaen of Hungarr, whom in reality the^
innot auccour without drawing upon their
OBBtry the imperial interdict.
It has been alleged, my lords, that
hoe. measures htnre been concerted
rheU^for die advantage of Hanover; that
liiB kkigdom is to be sacrificed to the
slectosate, and that we are in reality in-
anded to be made tributaries to a petty
In confirmation of these suggestions, ad-
raatage has been tal^ firom every eir-
nmstance that could admit of misrepre-
lentation. Tlie constitution of the enmire
lai been falsly quoted, to prove that tbe^
fnmot act against the emperor, and their
inaotivity in Flanders has been produoed
n a proof, thatthqrdo not intend toenter
Whoever shall emisrit the eonstitoent
and fuadaaitental pact by whidi the Ger-^
man form of government is estaUisbed,
will find, my lords, that it is not in the
power of the emperor alone to lay tor of
the states of Germany under the ban;
and that the electors are independent in
their own dominions, so ftr as that they
may enter into alliances with foreign
powers, and make war upon each other.
It appears therefore, my lords, Uiat nc^
lawpronibits the elector of Hanover to
send his troopA to the assistance of the
queen of Hungary; he may in consequenecf
of treaties march into Grermany, and at-
tack the confederates of the emperor, or,
what is not now intended, even the eta*
peror himself, without any dread of the
severities of the ban.
Nor does the continuance of the forces^
in Flanders show any unwillin^ess to be-
gin hostilities, or any dread ot the power
of either Prussia, whose prohibition is
merely imaginary, or of France, who is
not kiss perplexed by the neighbourhood
of .our army, than by any other method
that eould have been taken of attacking
her ; for beinp^ oblued to have an equtf
force always in readiness to observe their
motions, she has not been able to send a
new anny against the Austrians, but has
been obliged to leave the emperor at their
mercy, and sufer them to recover Bohemia
without bloodshed, and establish them-
sdves at leisure in BaYaria.
Nor is this, my lords, the only advan-
tage which has lieen gained by their re-
sidence in Flanders ; for the united pro-
vinceshave been animated to a concurrence
in die common cause, and have consented
so far to depart from their darling neu-
trality, as to send 20,000 of their forces to
garrison the barrier. Of which no man, I
suppose, will say that it is not of gr^
importance to the queen of Hungry,
since it sets her free from the necessity of
distracting her views, and dividing her
forces for the defence of the most distant
parts of her dominions at onoe ; nor will it
be affirmed, that this advantage could have
probably been gained, without convincing
our allies of our sincerity, by sending an
armt into the continent.
Ir it be asked, what is farther to be ex*
pected from these troops ; it ought to be
remembered, my lords, with how little
propriety our ministers can be required to
nuuce public a scheme of hostileoperadona,
and howmudi we should expose ourselvea
to our CMOuesi dumld % pvaoadeat ba
1179]
16 OBORGB n.
Jdiifii fit rtir hvrii m iMf^
kby wWeb our pmmA would
b« incapnoilalod to fonn ainr privole 4ch
BifnB» and an end iNwId be w ofor put lo
military secrecy*
What neceflsity theio can be fin* pio*
Jfmng aigiiHMQts like thesey I am doA, in*
deod, able to discover^smce the objectiona
which have been made seem, to proceed
9Uher from obetinacy than convictioa;
and the reflectiona that hare been vented^
aeem rather die product of wit irritated by
malevolence, than of reaaen enlightened
by ealm ooaaideratioQ* The miniilm
kaye been reproached with Hanoverian
meaauiesy witlwut any proof that Hanover
is to receive the leaat advanta^; and
have been charged with betraying their
country by those who cannot •how bow
their country i$ injured, nor can prove
l^er that interest or laith wookl allow
us to sit inactive in the present distur*
bances of Europe, or that we could have
acted in any other manner with equal
efficai^.
It is so far from bebg either evident or
true, my lords, that Great Britain is sa-
crificed to Hanover, that Hanover is evi*
dently haaarded bjr her union wiUi Great
Britam, Had this electorate now any
other sovereifpi than the kiqg of Great
Britain, it murht have been secure by a
neutrality, ana have looked upon the mi-
aeries of the neighbouring provinces with-
out any diminution of its people, or dis-
turbance of its tranquillity ; nor could any
denser be dreaded, or any inconvenience
be felt, but from an open declaration in
&vour of the Ftamnatic Sanction.
Why «the hire of troo[ps of any particular
eountrjr should be consideied as an act of
submission to it, or of dependency upon
it, I cannot discover ; nor can I conceive
for what. reason the troops of Hanever
ahould be mcMre dangerous, or less popufaur
at this than at any mmer time, or why the
employment of them should be eonaidered
as any particular regard. If any addition
of dommion had been to be purchased for
the electorate by the united arms of the
confederate^ army, I should, perhaps, be
inclined to censure the scheme as contrary
to the interest of my native country; nor
shall any lord more warmly oppose de-
signs ihat may tend to aggnuidiae another
nation at the expenee of this. But te
hire foreqpnem, or whatever country, only
to save the Uood of Enj^lisiuien, is, in mv
Qfinkm^ an msCanoe of piefinence which
•tti^ to Modoee raHierae'
•r gratitude than saBiea of
svrveyeft
im, Ihatl
[ino
eftks^
Upoathe
bate^ I will boUiy amnn, mat i aew
heard in this House a question, so la-
tenable id itself so obstinatelyor so wan^
debated: but I hope, that the sophiaria
which have been used, heweveraruul, aad
the dpfflamationB which hare bees pro-
nounced, however pathetic, will hsveoo
^bct upon your loidships. I hope, tfaa
as the other House has already sgrecdto
sqp^t the auziliaiies whidi hsTebeo
retained, and which have beeaproredB
this debate, to be retaifl^d fiir the stmgHt
reasons and the most important purpcso,
your lordships will show, by rqeetiog tha
modon, that you are bo less wfSmg to
concur ia thesiqpport of pid>lis fiath; aid
that you will not sufir poateritjtodnip
you with the advancement of rmce^td
the ruin of Europe.
The question being then put upon M
Stanhope's motion, it was resolved m the
negative by 90 voices against S5.
Prated agaimi refecting Lord 5^i*
hop^s Motion.2 The Ptotest entered on
the Journals upon this occasion ii as fol*
lows:
<« Dissodtient'
Gower, C. P. & CohhaHk
1. " Because we apprehend, tbst tla
asseinhling an antty in JPknden Isit jw
without the concurrence of the StiieiG»
neral, was a measure not cmly unwinvt-
ed by any advice or consent en psriiaffleat»
but directly repugnant to the dedaed
sense of the House of Commominthar
Resdutionof ti» SSrd of Misidiisa;it
not af^Muri^g to us, that any oae posvi
eogagod by treaty^or boonlbyiBierea
to support the queen of Huii^gaiy,eicept
En^d akne^ had oome in to fivehff
any assistance, or to co-operale widi SID
any olan to which an army io Flindeft
conldbesi^posedtoGODducei; sndtboe^
fere the sn^Kirt then proBUsed bf tlai
House to hia uMuesty,' upon an eipic^
conditional BuifoaMion ofbAifyiad^
audi other powers, is so ftr froaisrfM*
rising a measure entered upon io 0160*
stanosB totally diflfa^ent^ that it php7
pmnts out theopiniq^of posiianeot^^
sttdi an undertaking.
2. « Becauae tibe taking 16,000 Bom^-
veiiaas mto die aervioe or Gxmt Brte
te net in conitmetieA widi the Eo|P
feroca assembled m flaadtts, without oos;
rocb M iu^wtttH aad'dctatt
meai an mm*
d ut'liCiH sV
H^wmmim Tntft hOtt JBMmA Pay.
m
AhMgh it' tvte ftfiMen ttid po^^
^the Bng to bodi Hmim of ftrliament
t the doM of the kit mmioii, and is ex-
wdiy rrfemd to ib his roaijpKtfM speech
t the epeniog of thkl seems to us highly
rogatory to the rignts, honour and dig*
ity ofUie great council of the nationy ara
fefy daBgeeew preeedent to future
A. 0« 1718*
\im
5, « Because the restoring the balance
r power in Europe, by raising the House
r Austria to its fonner condition of in-
oeDce, dominion and strength, is an ob-
Kt quite unaitabaUe by the aims of
kesi Britain alone: and fi>r the attaining
f which, no other power has joined, or is
Wy to join with us in aonr ofiensive en>-
l^^eraents, either agamst the emperor, or
piost France.
4. ^ Because such assistance to the
Kof Hungary, as the situation of her
and that of aD Europe, as well as
be particular interest and policy of this
iluid require, woidd have been more pro-
«ly given in money, with modi less
speoce and danger to us,^'with much
aore dkct and advanti^ to our ally.
Fbe S8^000 men, now said to be paid for
er service, coats this nation 1,400,000^
ne half of which sum would have enabled
er to maintain a greater number of men
BMUe of actmg wherever her affiun
■gfat rsquire; so tbat above 7OO^0O(X.,
MBi to be wantonly lavished away upon
luseccasioo, besides the lives of m«>y of
ht subjects of Great Britain.
& ^ Because we apprehend, that the
leoM of the elector of Hanover cannot be
Bpioyed to act in Germany against the
m of the empiee, whose title and cause
nve^been avowed by the w4iole body, in
fhMixig him an lad of fifty Rimian months
brfaii support in this veiy war, without
searring uie risk of suc^ consequences
ipmi any ill success, as neither consists
nth die safety of Hnnover, nor with the
RTodenoe of Enj^d ; in which apprehe»-
Mwe aie strongly confirmed o? those
loops not having acted in opposition to
nmhal MaiUebois, at a juncture of time
phea such an asdstaace, given to the
{ana of Hungary, mitfht have been deci-
ipe; and fer losing which opporUmiqr, no
idler natural or probslble reason appears.
6. ^Because the asaambiing' an army
a Fbnden, not then attached by the
tasnch, iior, as it appears to us, in any
libger of Imag attadeed, conM be of
^ use to the power w« designed to as-
1%'Mr.fiae any 4rin*mce exterior to'
France, widi tmmA to the desiam An wm
tiben punning ; but may, in its fiiiure eoi^
aaquenoes, proMify tm todrawdie atrma
of that orewn into those parts, where they
can act with the greatest advantage, and
engage this nation as principals m a kmd
-war, the expenoe and danger of which ana
mucfi more certafai aad evident, than the
support we shaU find in it from odier
powers, or the means we shall have of car-
ryifigiton*
7. '* Because we observe with Ae ut-
most concern, that while Oseat Britain is
exhausting itsdf, almost to rain, m pus-
suanoe of acbemes pretended IX) be found*
M on our engagements to the au^en of
Hungary, the electorate of Hanover^
tliough under the same ei^jagements, as
well aa under the same pnnce, does not
appear to contribute any thing as an tSkf
to her assistance, but is paid by Great
Britain for all the forces it has now in the
field; and the baigain made for those
forces, is nsnch more disadvantageoos
to us, than what we concluded wiA that
electorate in the ^rear 1708. For, in the
convention, tfien signed, diere is no st^pu-
latum, either for levy money, or for le-
cruit money, with both winch we are
charged in the present demand, beridea.
ether extraordinary aitides; and ww oeo-
cmve, that the artide of lery money^
amounting alone to no less a sum than
139,3152. is a more particular haidahip
upon us, because it is known to all the
world, that the 16,000 men were not 1^
vied at the request, nor for the service -of
Enfffamd; but that te only addition auide
to die usual establidiment ctf the dectond
forces in time ef -peaee, was 6,000 man
raised some time Defore, upeh die death
of die late eomeror, and fiir the service .of
his majesty^s German dominions; npr can
we help observing, diat when we contraell-
ed fer Hanover troopa in June, 1702, theh
pay did not commenee until the begin-
ning of tiuit veiy month in which some
had already taken die field, and die rat
were aciua% upon their nureh; so tint
the contract being only to the first of Ja-
nuary following, England received tbe be^
n^t of the service m diose troops during
a whole eampa^, for the pay of seven
months only; whereas, by now taking
diose troops into pinr, on the dlst of
August 1749 ftfaat is a month before
diey began their mardi into Flanders)
until the 90di of ]>ecamber, 1743,
w<e shall give diem sixteen mooihs pay for
dKpiaBSvierir^fte4:a0paign^n]or» if diey
118S]
19 GSORGE n.
DdaieimA^Lwrdimtddf^
[1IB4
ahould ever make a campai^ at alt; so
that Hanover not only receives the great
and immediate profit of this advantageous
bargain, but b also exonerated of above
ludf the number of forces, which it used to
maintain in times of the most profomd
tranquillity.
8. ** Because the making so imnecessaiy
m bargain, in so very unthrifty a manner,
when this nation is groaning under so
heavy a load of debts and taxes, engaged
in a maritime war, at a mighty expence,
and with doubtfiil success, ' maintaining
a great national army abroad ; and at the
same time burdened at home with 88,000
men (the use of which we cannot discover)
over and above 11,550 marines, excites in
our minds the most alarming and melan-
choly tt)prehensions of the dissatis&ction
and jealousy that may arise in the breasts
of his majesty's most faithful subjects, if
ever the servile ambition of any minister
ahould attempt to gain, and to taint the
royal ear, by a mistaken adulation to an
imaffined partiality (which we are per-
suaded does not, and cannot exist) in the
behalf of an interest, foreign to that of
this kingdom, were it ever to be suspected
from stny such new and surprising ap-
pearances, that this nation could be en-
gaged in the most expensive, chimerical
and dangerous scheme, entered into with-
out die advice or approbation of parlia-
ment ; that its treasure could be exhausted,
its honour exposed, and its safety risked,
for no other end than to advance that fo-
reign interest, and make such a compli-
ance the price of fkvour and power ; we
are convinced it would be attended with
more alienation of the hearts of the people
ftom his majesty's person and fiunily, than
almost any other mismanagement could
ever produce. We therefore think it the
Invest duty we owe to our king and coun-
try, to enter our timdy protest against the
approach of so fiital a mischief, to depre-
iiie the pemicioos eiects of it in the most
solemn inanner we can, and to express our
earnest desire, that this motion had been
complied with, in order to stop an evil in
its beginnings, by the prudent and salutary
intervention of one House of Parliament,
whidi by the encreasing corruption of mi-
nisters, may be extended so for, as either
to throw this nation into the greatest dis-
order, or reduce it to astate of the meanest
JkjpmAieikcy;^^^^ Signed) Chesterfield,
Bockiogfaam, Westmoreland, Beau-
fort, Shaftsbttiy, St. John, Mont-
joy, Bedfoid» Stanhope^ firidge*
water, Sandwidi, Aylesbory, Ha-
versham, Hereford, Xfldbot, Oosen-
try, Oxford and Mortimer, Nord^-
ampton, Aylesford, LrHdifi^,
Denbirii, Craven, iU>iiigdoii, Fo-
ley."
The Motion for dischai^ging the Ha&>
verian troops bemg thus rejected.
The Earl of Scarborough rose and said:
My lords; it has been justly ob*
served in the debate of this day, that the
opinions of the people of Great Britain aie
repilated in a great measure by die deter-
minations of this House; that they con-
sider this as the place where troth and
reason obtain a candid audience, as a f^ace
sacred to justice and to honour, into which
passion, partiality and foction have bees
very rarcsy known to intrude; and tfasi
they therefore watch our dectsions as the
greatrulesof policy and standing maxiiEs
of right, and reulily bdieve those measurei
necessary in whidi we concur, and th^
conduct unblamable which has gained
our approbation.
This reputation, my lords, we on^
dfligently to preserve oy an unwearied ri-
gilance for tae happiness of oar follov-
subjects ; and while we possess it, we oo;^
likewise to employ its mfloence to benefi-
cial purposes, that the cause and the ef-
fect may reciprocally produce each o^er,
that the people, when theprosperi^ whidi
they enjoy by our care indinea them to
repose in us an inqplicit confidence, i
find that confidence a new aouioe of I
city; that they may reverence us, I
they are secure and happy, and be secsie
and happy, because they reverence us.
This great end, my lords, it will not be
very difficult to attain ; the foundation of
this exalted authority ma^ easOy be laid,
and the superstructure raised in a diort
time; the one may be laid too deep to be
undermined, and the other built too findij
to be shaken ; at least they can be im-
paired only by ourselves, ami may set sB
external violence at defiance.
To preserve the confidence of the people,
and consequently to govern them wknoai
force, and without opposition, it is only ne-
oessary that we never willmdiy decern
them, that we expose the public a&iis to
their view, so for as they ought to be msde
fMiblic, in* their true state, that we nerer
suffer foise reports to circulate under the
sanction of our authority, nor give the bs-
tsBA fsesoa to tlttdc wie «ra satufiedt whfii
8
1185]
Bmioverian Trocp$ into BritUh Fay.
A* D. 174S.
[1180
we are in iMlitf auspicious of illegal de-
■iniSy or that we suspect those measures
of latent miscliiefi with which we are in
teaKty completely satisfied.
But it ia not sufficient, my lords, that
we publish ourselves ho &llacious repre-
sentations of our counsels ; it is necessary
likewise, that we do not permit them to
he published, that we do obviate every
fiaJsoood in its rise, and propagate truth
with our utmost diligence: for if we suffer
the nation to be deceived, we are not much
less criminal than those who deceive it;
at least we must be confisssed no longer
to act as the guardians of the public hap-
piness, if we sufifer it to be interrupted by
the dispersing of reports which we know
to be at once false and pernicious.
Of these principles, ^which I suppose
will not be contested, an easy application
may be aaade to the business of the pre-
sent day. A question has been debated
with great address, great ardour, and great
obstinacy, which is in itself, tiioughnot
doubtful, yet very much diffused, compli-
cated with a great number of drcum-
stances, and extended to a multitude of re^
lations ; and is therefore a subject upon
which sophistry may very safely i>racti8e
her arts, and which may b^ shown in very
different views to those, whose intellectual
light is too much contracted to receive
the whole object at once. It may easily
be asserted by those who have long been
accustomed to affirm without scruple what-
ever they desire to obtain belief, that the
arguments in favour of the motion, which
has now been rejected by your lordships,
were unanswerable; and it will be no hard
tssk to lay before their audiencesuch reasons
as, though they have been easily confuted
by the penetration and experience of your
lordships, may, to men unacquainted with
politics and remote from the sources of
intelligence, appear very formidable.
It is therefore not simcient, that your
lordships have rejected the former motion,
and shewn, that you do not absolutely dis-
approve the measures of the government,
since it may be asserted, and with some
appearance of reason, that hardy not to
admit a motion by which all measures of
the last year would have been at once
overturned and annihilated, is no proof
^t they have been fully justified and
warmly confirmed, since many of the
^'^iifiitctioDs might have been at least
douhtfol, and yet thb motion not have
TOn proper.
Ia an a&ir of so great importancei my
[VOL.XII.J *
lords, on aSur m which the interest of all
the western world is engajged, it is neces*
sary to take away all suspicions, when the
nation is about to.be mvolved in a war for
the security of ourselves and our posteritji
in a war wnich, however prosperous, must
be at least expensive, and wnich is to be
carried on aeauist an enemy who, though
not invincible, is in a very high degree
powerful. It is surely proper to shew in
tlie faiost public manner our conviction,
that neither prudence nor frugality haa
been wanting, that the inconveniencee
which will be always felt in such contei^
tions, are not brought upon us by wantoiv«
ness or negligence, and that no care ia
omitted by wmch they are alleviated, and
that they may be borne more patiently,
because they cannot be avoided.
This attestation, my lords, we can only
give by a solemn address to his majestjr of
a tenancy contrary to that of the motion
now rejected ; and by such an attestation
only can we hope to revive the courage of
the nation, to unite those in the conunon
cause of liberty whom false reports have
alienated or smdken, and to restore to hia
majesty that confidence, which all the
subtilties of faction have been employed
to impur. I therefinre move, '^ That in
the unsettled and dangerous situation of
affiurs in Europe, the sending a considera*
ble body of British forces into the Austrian
Netherlands, and augmenting the same
with 16,000 of his majesty's electoral
troops, and the Hessians in the British
pay, and thereby in conjunction with the
2ueen of Hungary's troops in the Low
louotries, forming a great army for the
service of the common cause, was a wise,
useful, and necessary measure, manifestly
tending to the support and encourage^
ment of his majesty's allies, and the leal
and effectual assistance of the queen of
Hungary, and the restorbg and maintain-
ing the balance of power, and has al-
ready produced very advantageous conse-
quences."
TheEarlof Ox/orrf.-
My lords ; the necessity of sup*
porting our reputation and of preserving
the confidence of the public, I am by no
means inclined to dispute, bein^ convinced,
that from the instant in which we shall
lose the credit, which our ancestors have
delivered down to us, we shall be no longer
considered as a part of the l^islature, but
be treated by the people only as an as-
sembly of hitelipgs an d dependents, con*
1 187] 16 GEORGE n. DelaU on Oe Hamherian Troopf. [1188
Tened at the pleasure of the court to ratify
its decisions without examination, to ex-
tort taxes, promote slavery, and to share
with the ministry the crime and the infamy
of oppression.
For this reason it is undoubtedly proper,
that we avoid not only the crime, but the
appearance of dependence, and that every
doubtful question should be freely debated,
and every pernicious position publicly con*
demned ; and, that wnen our decisions are
not agreeable -to the opinion or expecta-
ti(Mis of the people, we i^ould at least
ihew them, that they are not the effects
-of blind compliance with the demands of
the ministiy, or of an implicit resigna-
tion to the direction of a party. We ought
to shew, that we are unprejudiced and
ready to hear truth, that our determina-
tions are not dictated by any foreign in-
fluence, and that it will not be vain to in-
form us, or useless to petition us.
In these principles I agree with the
noble lord who has made the motion ; but
in the consequences which are on this
occasion to be drawn from them, I cannot
but differ very widely from him ; for, in
my opinion, nothing can so mudi impair
our reputation as an address like that
which IS proposed ; an address not founded
either upon facts or arguments, and from
which the nation can collect only, that
the protection of thjs House is withdrawn
from them, and that they are to perish
as a sacrifice to the interest of Hanover.
^ Let us consider what we are now in-
vited to assert; and it will easily appear,
how well this motion is calculated to pre-
serve and 10 advance the reputation of this
House. We are to assert, my lords, the
propriety of a new war against the most
tbrmidable power of the universe, at a
time, when we have been defeat^ and
dis^ced in our contests with a kingdom
of mferior force. We are to declare our
readiness to pay and raise new taxes,
•ince no war can be carried on without
them, at a time when our commerce, the
ffreat source of riches, is obstructed ; when
the interest of debts contracted during a
Jong war, and a peace almost equally ex-
jpensive, is preying uppn our estates ; when
the profits of the trade of future ages, and
the rents of the inheritances of our latest
descendants, are mortgaged, and what
ou^t yet more to aflect us, at a time
when the out-cry of distress is universal,
when the miseries of hopeless poverty have
«unk the nation into despair, when in-
dmtiy scarcely retaius spirit sufficient to
continue her labows, and sB die lover
ranks of mankind are overwhdned vidi
thegeneral calamity^
There may perhaps be some soMng
your lordships, who may think this repre>
sentation of the state of die public a«
aggerated beyond the truth. Thereare
many in this House who see no other
scenes than the magnificence of &art8,tlis
gaieties of balls, and the splendoar of t
court ; and it is not much to be wondered
at, if they do not easily believe, whstitii
often their interest to dodbt, thst thk
luxury is supported by the distress of mil*
lions, and that this magnificence ezposei
multitudes to nakedness and finnine. it
is my custom, when the busineas of the
parliament is over, to retire to my eitste
m the country, where I livewidioutnoise^
and without riot, and take a cahn and de-
liberate survey of die condition of those
that inhabit the towns and viUages about
me. I mingle in their conversstion, end
hear their complaints; I enter their houei,
and find by their condition, that thdr com-
plaints are just ; I discover, diatthejare
daily impoverished, and that they are not
able to struggle under the enormous bur-
thens of public payments, of whidi 1 am
convincea, thiA they cannot be levied ano-
ther year without exhiusting the people,
and spreading universal beggaxj orer the
nation.
What can be the oomian of die miblic,
when they see anjaddreas of this Hoose^
by which new expences are recommended!
Will they not thmk that their state is des-
perate, and that they are sold to slaveiT}
from which nothing but insurrections m
bloodshed can release them i If they r^
tain any hopes of relief from this HouKi
they must soon be extinguished, irhea
they find in die next clause* that we are
sunk to such a desree of servility as to
acknowledge ben^ts which were nerer
received, and topraise the invisible service
of our army in Flanders.
If it be necessary, my lords, to impose
upon the public, let us at least endearoor
to do it less crossly ; let us not attempt
tojpersuadethem, that diose forces have
gained victories, who h«ve never seenao
enemy, or that we are benefited by the
transportation of our mmney into aoodier
country.
If it be necessary to censure those no-
ble lords who have suppcMrted the former
motion, and to punish uem for daring to
use arguments which could not be tfpn*
futed; (for this is die apparail tendScy
1189]
Charitable Corporation Petition.
A, D. 174S.
[1190
of tiie present motion,) l^t us not lose
all consideration of ourselves, nor sacri-
fice the honour of the House to the re-
aentment of the ministrv.
For my part, my lords, I shall continue
to avow my opimon in defiance of cen-
sures, motions, and addresses; and as I
struggled against the former ministry, not
because I envied or hated them, but be-
cause I disq>proved their conduct, 1 shall
continue to oppose measures equally de-
structive with equal zeal, by whomsoever
th&y are projected, or by whomsoever pa-
tronised*
The Earl of Chesterfield :
My lords; after so fuD a defence
of the former motion as the late debate
has produced, it is rather with indigna-
tion than surprise, that 1 hear that which
is now offered. It has been for a long
time the practice of those, who are sup-<
ported only by their numbers, to treat
their opponents with pdntempt, and when
they cannot answer to insult them; and
motions have been made, not because they
were thought right by those who offered
them, but because they would certainly
be carried, and would by being carried
mortify their opponents. •.
This, my loroB, is the only intent of the
present motion, which can promote no
useful purpose, and which, though it may
flatter the eourt, must be considered by
the people as an insult; and therefore,
though 1 believe dl opposition fruitless,
1 declare that I never wfll agree to it.
And to shew, my lords, mat I do not
oppose the ministry for Uie sake of ob-
structing the public counsels, or of irri-
tating those wnom I despair to defeat, and
that I am not afraid of trusting my con-
duct to the impartial examination of pos-
terity, I shall beg leave to enter, with my
protest, the reasons which have influenced
me in this day's deliberation, that thev
be considered when this question shaU
no longer be a point of interest, and our
present jealousies and animosities are for-
gotten.
The question being then put up6n lord
Scaifoorough's motion, thesame was agreed
to. Ayes 78, Noes 35.
CharitaNe Corporation PetitionJ'^^ J<^*
* From the Seeker Mamacript.
Jan. 31. Petition of the Charitable Corporation.
LKd Daniley moted that Comn\iisionfrs
nuary 21. The order of the day being
read, for taking into consideration the Pe-
tition of the Charitable Corporation for
relief of industrious poor, by assisting them
with small sums, upon pledges, at legal
interest, for leave to bring in a Bill, to
appoint commissioners, to make the in-
might be appoioted by parliameDt to state the
accounts which the Cbancellor had decreed.
Lord Carteret objected, that one partjr or
other might, for ought we knew, within 5 years
appeal from the decree, and in the mean time
we conid not idterpose. Lord Warwick said,
we had only the aMertions of the petitioners be-
fore us, and that commissioners might be as
slow as Masters in Chancery, and it was going
out of the road. The duke of Bedford answer-
ed, that appointing commissioners would not
hinder an appeal, and if there was one they
roust stand still till it was heard, just as the
Masters must, and if there was none, the mat-
ter would go on quicker in their bands than in
the common way : that in private causes the
length of time before the Masters is a great
haraship, and in this cause there could be no
end: that it was desired the commissioners
should be Masters, but confined to a short time :
that there were 5 persons appointed by parlia-
ment to settle the accounts or this Corporation
before, and no more is desired now : that in
things of consequence new precedents may be
mlide, and one use of the parliament is to maka
them : that unfair delays have been used as
much as possible, and kept the cause eight years
depending. That where nnmeroos parties are
concerned, each side should appoint a repre-
sentative to avoid delavs : that in the commit-
tee, information might be received as to the
methods of settling this afiair, and he hoped
the Chancellor would now speak to it and di-
rect the House. This last he pressed very
much ; but the Chancellor did not speak, but
got lord Cholmondeley to oppose the motion,
who said nothing material : It was then re-
jected without a division. They say the Chan*
celTor may appoint two Masters to ait de die
in diem.
Some days after this, Mr. Grove, one of the
managers wt the Proprietors, told me, that he
and the rest were well pleased with the rejection
of the Petition, which they had presented only
to shew the other proprietors, that they would
go as iar as they could, but that they had now
spent the 90,000/., which was the remainder of
tne stock of the Corporation, and there would be
nothing to be got were the account to be taken
ever so soon, the perA)ns of whom the demand
was first to be made, being dead o^ beyond
seas, or insolvent, and sir R. Sutton having
swinu himself not to be worth 300/. a year.
He says the directors lost 300,000/. in- £ast
India stock, and that 43,000/. was given, it
doth not appear to whom, to facilitate obtain-
ing a charter, and that sir Rt Sutton had
87|000/,ofit.
1191] 16 GEORGE IL
quiries, and take the accomptSf directed
by a decree lately made in the court
of Chancery. Tlie said Petition was also
read.
Then it was moved, ** That the judges
be ordered to prepare a Bill, for appoint*
ihg commissioners, with proper powers,
in a summary way, to malce the enquiries,
and take the accompts, directed by the
said decree, pronounced the 13th or Au-
gust last, in a cau^ wherein the peti-
tioners were plaintiiis, and Sutton and
others dei'endants; aad to enable such
eommii^sioaers to proceed, notwithstand*
ing any abatements by death, during any
examination of the matters to them refer-
red." Which being obiected to; and
after debate thereupon, toe question was
put upon the said motion. And it was re-
solvea in the negative.
Ordered that the said Petition be re-
jected.
Debate in the Lords on the SmrUvous
Liquors BUI.*'} February 15. Tne Lords
read a first time a Bill from^e Commons,
*' For repealing certain Duties on Spiritu-
ous Liquors, and on Licences for retailing
the same ; and for laying other Duties on
Spirituous Liquors, and on Liceocea for
retailing tlie said Liquors."f
* From the London Magazine, for October,
1743.
t " The most severe opposition the new mi-
nisters underwent, was in their endeavours to
flupport a Bill which they had concerted, and
which bad passed through the House of Com-
mons with great precipitation : It repealed cer-
tain duties on spirituous liquors, and licences
Ibr retailing these liquors ; and imposed others
at an easier rate. When these severe duties,
amounting almost to a prohibition, were im-
posed, the populace of London were sunk into
the most brutal degeneracy, by drinking^ to ex-
cess the pernicious spirit called gin, which was
sold so cheap that the lowest class of the peo-
ple could afford to indalge themselves in one
continued state of intoxication, to the destnie-
tion of all morals, industnr, and order. Such a
shameful degree of promgacy prevailed, that
the retailers of this poisonous compound set up
painted boards in public, infiting people to be
drunk at the small ex])ence of one penny ; as-
suring them they might be dead drunk for
two- pence, and have straw for nothing. They
accordingly pro?ided cellars and pUces strewed
with straw, to which thev conVeved those
wretches who were overwhelmed with btoxica-
^on. In these dismal caverns they lay until
they recovered some use of their faculties, and
then they bad recourse to the same wiscbievoos
Debate in ihe Lords [II93
Febnuny 21. The Lords ordered se-
veral Papcnrs to be laid before them
ceming the Distilling Trade ; and a mo-
potion; thus consuming their heahh, and
ruining their families, in hideous r<>ceptacles of
the most filthy vice, resounding with riot, cxe*
cratifin, and 'blasphemy. Such beastly prac-
tices too plainly denoted a total want of all po-
lice and cirtl regulations, and would have re>
flecteil disgrace upon the most barharoas com-
niuoity. In order to restrain this evil, which
was become intolerable, the legislature enacted
that law which we have already mentknieiL
But the populace soon broke throogfi all re-
straint. Though no licence was obtained, and
no duty paid, the liquor continued to be said in
all comers of the streets : informers were ioti-
midatad by the threats of the people ; and the
justices of the peace, either frooi iadalcBceor
corruption, neglected to put the law in ezeoi-
tion. The new ministers foresaw that a great
revenue would accrue to the crown from a re-
peal of this act ; and this measure they tboo^
they might the more decend^r take, as the bw
had proved inefTectual : for it appeared thai
the consumption of gin had conaidanihly n-
creased every year since those heavy doties
were imposed. They, therefore, pretended,
that should the price of the liquor be ouMierate-
ly raised, and licences granted at tweaty ahil-
hngs each to the retailers, the lowest class of
people wouki be debarred the use of it to ex-
cess : their morals would of consequence be
mended ; and a considerable sum of money
might be raised for the support of the war, by
mortgaging the revenue ansing from the dmy
and the licences. Upon these maadma the new
Bill was founded, and paaaed through the
lower House without opposition ; hot aaaoag
the peers it produced the most obstinate dis-
pute which bad happened since the beginning
of this parliament The first assault it suts-
tained was from lord Hervey, who had been di-
vested of his post of privy-seal, which was be-
stowed on lord Gower ; and these two nM^
men exchanged principles from that instant.
The first Mas hardened into a sturdy patriot ;
the other suppled into an obsequious courtier.
Lord Hervey, on this oocasioo, made a florid
harangue upon the pemidous effects of that
destructive spirit they were about to let loose
upon their feUow-creatures. Several prelates
expatiated on the same topics: but the earl of
Chesterfield attacked the Bill with the united
powers of reason, wit, and ridicule. Lord Car*
teret, lord Bathurst, and the earl of Bath, weic
numbered among its advocates ; and abrewd
arguments were advanced on both sides of the
3uestion. After very long, warm, and repeated
ebates, the Bill passed without amendments,
though the whole bench of bishops voted against
it : and we cannot help owning, that it has not
been attended with those dismal
which the lords in the oppositioo fetetold.''
Sraoilett,
1933 ^ ^^^ SpirUuoui Liquors
on being made by lofd Henrey, Hut Dr.
[ead. Dr. Lee, and Dr. Barker, do at-
»nd thiB House to-morrow, upon the se*
md reading of the above Bill ; theiarae
as objected to. After debate ; the ques-
on was put upon the said motion, and it
as resolved in the negative.
Ordered, That the commissioners of ex-
ise do attend this House to-morrow, upon
le second reading of the said Bill.
February SSi. The said Bill was read a
!cond Ume. On the motion that it be
Dmrnitted,
Lord Hervey rose and md :
My lords ; the* very first appear*
ace of this Bill in this House, gave me a
lost extraordinary, • most shocking and
lelancholv surprise. Considering how
luch, and how lately, the practice of gin-
rinkmg was condemned, considering how
luch it must be condemned by every man
ho has in his breast the least spark of
imipassion for his fellow creatures, I was
nprised to find, that such • meUiod of
lising money had entered into the head
r any of my countrymen: I was surprised
I find, that such a method had been ap«
roved of by the other House : I was as-
^DishfHl to hear of its having passed
trough that House without any great op-
Dsition ; and my astonishment was accom-
inied with this melancholy reflection,
lat I looked on it as the last effort of the
cpiring credit of my country. We have
ready established, we have mortgaged
iroost every fund that can with decency
& thought of; and now, in order to raise
new fund, we are to establish the worst
>rt of drunkenness by a law, and to mort-
age it for defraying an expence, which,
I my opinion, is both unnecessary and
diculous. This is really like a trades-
lan's mortgaging the prostitution of his
ife or daughter, for the sake of raising
loney to supply his luxury or extrava-
ance.
Drunkenness, my lords, is of all vices
le most abominable, and of all sorts of
runkenness, that of getting drunk with
in is the most destructive. It is not only
ic most deiftructive with respect to the
3a]th and vigour of the patient, but also
ith respect to the health and vigour of
le state, because it prevails most among
cir most necessary and usefiil sort of peo-
le. Our poor labourers are the support
r our trade, our manufiictores, our ncnes,
ly, and oht luxury too. Tbif yioei if it
BUL A. D. 1745. [119i
be indulged, will destroy those we have^
and prevent the procreation of any to sue*
ceed them. It will destroy our soldiers :
it will destroy our seamen* It renders
men too feeble for labour, too indolent for
application, too stupid for ingenuity, and
too daring for the peace cf society. I will
therefore consider this Bill in three lights,
as it concerns the health of the people, as
it concerns their morals, and as it oonccma
the public quiet.
With regard to the health of the people,
if your lordships had agreed to the motion
I made the other day, you would now have
had, «JiMi ifocef the opmion of those who
are the best judges, as to the fiital efiecfei
of the immoderate use of gin, upon the
constitution and health of £ose that fall
into that sort of debauchery. But since
your lordships would not aeree to have it,
viva voce^ I nave been at the pains to get
it in writing, and shall beg leave to read it
to you. It is a representation of the col*
le^e of physicians m the year 1796, when
this afiair was last under the consideration
of parliament ; and I have good reason to
beueve, that none of the subscribers have
since altered their opinion. (Here he read
the Representation, as' also the names of
those tnat subscribed it, and then went on
as follows). Your lordships all know the
capacity and experience of those who
signed this Representation, and you see
how positively they declare, both from
reason and experience, that this poisonous
liquor destroys the health and vigour not
only of those who fiiU into an immoderate
use of it, but also of their unhappy children,
so that the latter either die in tneir infancy
of the poison they suck in with the milk
of their mother, or if they live, they be«
come a burden upon, instead of being of
use to the society to which they belong.
Will your lordships, when you consider
this, grant a licence to every little ale-
house in the kingdom to dispense this poi*
son, in what quantities they please, to tneir
inconsiderate and unfortunate customers ?
Can any distress, or any necessity we may
be under at present, authorize our expos-
ing the people to such a baneful, ana, at
the same time, such aliewitching tempta-
tion?
Then, my lords, with regard to the mo-
rals of the people, it is well known that
drunkenness of every kind inflames all the
passions of mankind, and at the same time
deprives them of that which is desired by
nature as a ched: upon our passions, I
mean oar reason ; so that every man.
1195] 16 GEORGE 11.
X whilst the drunken fit is upon him, may in
«ome decree be said to be mad, and of all
sorts of drunken madness, that which pro-
ceeds from an excessive drinking of spi-
rituous liquor is the most extravagant, tne
most malicious, and the most crueL The
most horrid imprecations, the most open
and detestable prostitutions and pdlutions,
the most daring and cruel robberies and
murders, are generally the effect of getting
drunk with such liquors. This we were
fiiliy convinced of by experience in theyear
17d6ywhen the law was passed, which b now
to be repealed; and from hence many of our
most eminent divines, and some who are
now most deservedly honoured with seats
in this House, took occasion to make this
rice the subject of several sermons, one of
which I remember has this just and pathe-
tic expreanon, * That even necessity itself
was now become luxurious.' It was so,
my lords : the hungry, the naked, by the
easy and cheap access they had to the
liquor called ffin, were become luxurious
in this sort of liquor, and rather than go
without it, they often went without a dm-
ner, nay they sometimes pawned the only
rag they had to cover their nakedness.
The reason of such a conduct may be
easily g|uessed at : when they sot drunk
with tms liquor, which they coiud do in a
Tery short time, and at an easier rate than
would purchase a dinner of the coarsest
£bod for their families, it for a time ap-
peased the cravings of appetite, deafened
their ears to the cries of their starving
children, and delivered them from the
sense of shame, and the pangs of remorse.
Their wickedness led them into crimes,
and they got drunk again to foi^ the
crimes they had been guilty of, which ^-
nerally produced a new scene of villamy
or wickedness.
This, my lords, was the eflRN^t, this will
be the effect of a toleration of public gin-
ahops under any denomination whatever,
with regard to the morals of the people:
and i»ith respect to the public quiet, it may
produce still more fatal effects ; for when
those that are made des^rate by their
poverty, are rendered void of aU fear by
their being dr^nk with gin, no man can
say what they will not undertake. I shall
grant, that such men cannot enter into
any regular concert for disturbing or over-
turning the government ; but if any acci-
dental public misfortune should render the
people generally inclined to mutiny, an
Insurrection begun by a parcel of drunken
feUows at a gin-iOiop, might soon jrow to
Debate m the Lords * [1196
sudi a hei^t as might occasion the over-
throw of our government, or at least s
great deal of bmodshed. The fint nmtl-
neeis would probably be joined bj all
those in the same condition, firom the
several gin shops in town; and this alooe
would produce such a multitude, as might
give hopes of success to the more sober
and thoughtful, especially amon^ those
who have nothing to lose but their lives;
and if such a mob as ^lis should get the
reins of government into their hands, I
must desire your lordships, and all the
men of property in the kingdom, to coa-
sider what security you could bare for
your money, your goods, your estates, or
your lives. A mA of this kind might,
perhaps, proceed upon the same lerelLg
maxims with that under Wat Tyler, in the
reign of Richard the 2nd. Theymigfatre-
solve to destroy all the nobility andgeobr
in the kingdom; and their beine druiu with
gin would make them puraue their maxins
with more rapidity and cruelty, if pos-
sible.
But now,my lords, to confirm aUIhate
said against tolerating in any shaoe the
free use of this pernicious liquor, I shaO
beg leave to reaa to you the preamble to
the act of the 2d year of his present ma-
jesty's reign, for Jaying a duty upon cm-
pound waters, and for licensing the re-
tailers of such waters. The preamble is Id
these words : * Whereas the driokiog tf
< spirits and strong waters is become very
< common amongst the people of infenor
* rank, and the constant and eicessrre
« use thereof tends greatly to the destruc*
< tion of their healths, enervating them,
* and rendering them unfit for usefiii la*
< hour and service, intoxicating them,iDd
< debauching their morals, and driving
< them into all manner of vices and wick-
< edness, the prevention hereof would
< be of die greatest public eood and beD^
< fit. And whereas, it is found by expe*
< rience, that the great tenq>tatioa to such
* licentious use of these pernidoos Hfsa
< is from the cheapness theierf, oocssioiied
* by new inventions for mixing and coo-
< pounding of brandy, low wines, ana
« spirito of the first extraction, on ^
« duties have been heretofore ^ted,
< with other spirits or materials vfaichpA^
* little or no duty, and by an unlimited fa-
< berty for all sorts of penoos, to retailf
* sdl, and dispose of such mixed 8odcoiS|
< pound spirits at their will and pleasmvj
« for remedy therefore of customs asd
< practices so dapgesons and misGhieToa
197]
on the SpbUuous Liquors BUL
A. D. 174S.
[119B
to the health, mannen, and peace of all
your majesty's subjects, may it please
your most excellent majesty that it may
be enacted, and be it enacted, &c/
These, my lords, are the words of that
reamble : these words shew what your
)rdships' opinion was at that time ; and I
bould be glad to know what reasons you
ave for altering your opinion. When I
)ok round me, I see many lords here who
rere members' of this or the other House
t that time, and who declared this to be
lielr opinion by giving their assent to this
reamble : I am glad to see so many of such
>rds here now, not oidy on account of the
leasure it gives me to see their lives pro-
)nged, but because I must from thence
appose, that this Bill will be rdected, un-
»8 some of them have chanj^ their opi-
ion as to the use of these kquors, and if
bey hare, I hope, they will give us their
easons for such change ; for I am sure, I
an suggest none to myself. On the con-
rary, the great consumption of these
iquors, notwithstanding the hieh duties,
r rather prijhibition, they have Tain under
or five or six yjears past, convinces me,
bat the inclmations of the lower sort of
eople are as strong as ever, to intoxicate
bemselves with these liquors; and indeed
ommon reason may convince us of the
Bme, for we know the power of custom
a man^ things, as ridiculous, though not
0 pernicious, as this of drinkine gin. It
) very hard to forsake what we have been
)ng accustomed to, if by any means we
an comply with it; and the custom of
irinkiDg durams of any kind is, we know,
8 hard to get free from as anv custom
rhatever; Uierefore, I foresee, that if you
gain open gin-shops under the denomi-
ation of coffee-houses or ale-houses, we
ball presently have a new deluge of all
bose calamities, which were so severely
Bit, and. so much complained of in the
ear 17S6.
I shall grant, my lords, the law then
lade has not proved effectual, and, in-
eed, no reasonable nuin expected it
bould; because by makine the prohibi-
OQ 80 whimsicaQy general, you gave a
Wough turn to the spirit of the peoplci,
^ turned their contempt of gin-selling
^ gin-drinking into a sort of compassion,
rhich made the informers liable to be so
1 treated by the mob. Whereas, if you
^ laid such a duty upon the still-head,
s would have raised the price of all home-
^e spirits as high as tfiat of brandy or
UDi and made proper reguldtiQm far pre-
ventbff Hie continuing of licences to such
as inade an ill use of Uiem, it would have
put it out of the power of indigent persons
to get drunk with such liquors, and the
fury of the mob would have been dif ected
against any man that offered to sell them
in a clandestine way, I believe, with more
violence, and, I am sure, with- more rea-
son than it is now directed against liule
clandestine brothel-houses. Every trades- '
man, every meclianic, every day-labourer,
would have looked upon a clandestine
smuggling gin-house as a trap i#r his
wife, his son, or his daughter, and the
whole neighbourhood would have rejoiced
to see the keeper of such a house sent to
Bridewell. Even the poorest sort would
have considered, that if they or any of their
family wanted a single dram upon an emer-
gency, they migh^ and could afford to
purchase it at the next ale-house; but
when the poor found themselves at once
totally excluded from the use of any sort
of spirituous liquors, and the rich, I mean
those who could purchase two g^lons, at
the same time indulged witli as free, and
as cheap an use of it as ever they had be-
fore, it so raised their indignation, that it
was impossible to suppose, the law could
be executed in any, much less in a free
country.
Such a law as this, my lords, would
have put an efiectual end to all the evik
that were then, or are now complained of;
but can this be expected from, can it be
said to be the design of this Bill i No, my
lords : the design is plainly to encourage
this abominable and pernicious vice, and to
make it a fund for bringing money into hia
maiesty's exchequer. Is this consistent
I witn the public good ? Is it consistent with
{ the conmion rules of humanity ? Is it con-
sistent with common prudence ? A famous
I writer upon Ways and Means* has many
years ago told us, that where the use of
any commodity is pernicious to Uid'interest
of the nation, or prejudicial to the health
of the peq)le, sudi an excise may there
be laid, as may amount to a prohibition of
the commodity ; for which reason he even
then advised laying . such a duty upon
brandy and spirits, as might amount to a
erohibition ; for, says he, the loss to the
ing's revenue would be recompensed by
an increase in the customs upon wine, and
in the excise upon other liquors, the con-
sumption whereof thev undoubtedly hin-
der, as well as that of flesh and corn, And
* Dr. Davepant.
1190] 16 GEORGE U.
to this I will add, that if any diiCj at aD be
laid upon any such commodity as this au-
thor mentions, the parliament ought to
take care to make it such a duty as may
very near amount to a prohibition ; for let
the use of it be never so pernicious to the
interest of the nation, or prgudicial to the
healtli of the people, if it be nuide a fund
for bringing money^ into the king's exche-
ouer, the km^'s ministers wiU encourage
U2e consumption, and will neglect to exe-
cute, or pervert any laws ^ou can make
for preventing or diminishing that con-
sumption.
Tnis, I affirm, my lords, will be the con-
sequence, and every man who considers,
must from experience assent to what I af-
firm* Too great a number of ale-houses
or taverns is certainly a nuisance, and of
the most pernicious consequence both to
the health and the industry of the people,
which was the reason for introducmg the
custom of granting licences : when this
custom was first established, no licence was
Cted, unless upon enquiry it was found,
sudi a house was in that place really
wanted for the convenience of the neigh-
bourhood,, or for the accommodation of
travellers ; but since the high duties and
excises have b^en laid upon wines, and
upon beer and ale, has such an enquiry
ever been made ? Has not a licence been
granted to every one that asked it ? Has
not the execution of our laws against
drunkenness and tippling been most em-
»ousIy neglected i This, my lords, wiU be
Sie consequence of the duty now proposed
to be laid on gin. The duty proposed is
not hear so high as to amount to a prohi-
bition : it is not so high as to prevent the
excessive use of that li(|uor among the
meanest sort of people : it fs not designed
as such : it is designed as a fund for bring-
ing money into the king's exchequer ; and
therefore we may depend upon it, that the
use of this commodity, and even the ex-
cessive use of it, will be encouraged, or at
least connived at by the king's ministers,
and by all those under their direction. The
justices of peace may, perhaps, for the first
Year or two, refose granting a licence to a
nouse known to be designed to be made a
gin-shop, under the pretence of being a
cofiee-house or ale-house; but the^ will
soon have private directions, and a licence
win be granted to every one that desires it.
I cannot therefore^ my lords, consent to
a Bill, which will so certainly tend to en-
courage the use, nay the excessive use of
this pernicious commodity ; and I am the
JMaiemihe Lords
more positivdy determiDcd
Bill, because I know the dtsty
be imposed is to be made a
rowing a large sum of money,
were to be imposed but for a
I should be under very little
cause, I am convinced, the
quences that will ensue from gh
loose to the excessive use of thj
dity, will soon oblige us to tak«
fectual method, if possible, for
stop to it; but wnen the dutjlj
gaged, and a large new debt \i
upon the credit of it, we can tsfa
thod for putting a stop to the i
use of this commodity, withoat m
the Sinking Fund for the payinc
debt. For this reason 1 look
Bill now before us as a mask m\f
coaling a design to mortgage the
Fund. It was supposed, and very
ably supposed by those who har^
this desi^, that the parliament n
be prevailed with to mortgage the
Fund, for supporting so romantio
Eence as we now seem to be enteril
ut, thou^t they, if we can pr^
the parliament to lay a small dufl|
gin, and to mortgage that duty, is^
Sinking Fund as a collateral secunr^
public safety will soon oblige theis ti
nihilate the nrincipal, and then the J
debt must faft upon the collateral feet
This, I shall grant, is an ineenm^ >
trivance, but it is easily seen through,
therefore your lordships must all be
yinced, that the question now beft^^
is, Whether you will agree to men
the Sinking Fund for supporting K23
troops, that, in my opinion, can be ^j
service to us or any of our alhes. '
my lords, is ^y the case, and tnidi
at lest break through that veil which u
thrown over it The duties pavsblei
spirituous liquors sold by retail, and 1
licenses for selling them by retaHi a
now a part of the Sinking Fund: i
you are to abolish, and to impose new
ties in their stead, upon which you ar
raise a new debt. Is not this prop
mortgaging a part of the Sinking F^
But this is not all : by the loose vcu
now to give to the retailing of suchliqa
the spirit will in a year or two becooK
general and violent against the public
tailors of gin, as it was in the year i"
you will then be obliged to annihilate
fund you are now creating, by layings'
a duty on the still-head as will ^so^^
very near to a prohibition i and tlius atl
HM]
Off tkt SpirUutm lifittfti
te ddl>t ooubrected upon that fund must
^Mome a ^brtgige upon die Sinking
^dL TXiB ifif therefore the trae Question
)sm before you, Whether you wil] a^ee
f mortgage the Sinking rund i as this
flight not;, I think, to be ^ne but in a
lase of the last extremity, and as no such
pttse can be supposed to exist at present, I
ihsll therefore be against coaumtting the
p.
Lord Bttthurst :
My lord^ ; as th^ noble lord who
ipoke last has often in this House given
aroo|s of the acuteness of his discerning
Iculty : as no man who knows him can
iimbt ofhis great capacity, I am surprised,
be ^ould so fkr mistake the design of this
^ as lo suppose it intended to encou-
[S^ or promote the excessive drinking of
pritaous liquors of any kind. I i^all
feadily agree with his lordship in all he
|ias said about the fatal consequences of this
rice: I shall grant, that it impairs the
liealth and debauches the morals of those
ibatare subject to it : I shall admit, that it
piay happen to be of dangerous conser
loeace to the public quiet ; but all this is
m argument for the Bill rather than
Iglinst it, because, I think, it is apparent,
Ant this Bill, if passed into a law, will
liniiiush a| least tne consumption of this
liquor. I kno#, my lords, that the BUI
pow proDosed to be repealed was designed
H a total prohibition of the retail of all
^itttous liquors: the duty laid upon all
mchliquors sold by retail, under two gallons,
las so high, that no man could propose to
petsfl them fairly; and the doty upon
lieoiees was so extravagant, that, I believe,
tbe projector <^ the Bill did not expert
^ any man in the kingdom would take
Mit a licence ; and accordingly not above
^0, I think, in the whole kingdom did
tske out any such licence. That Bill was
Aierefore designed as a total prohibition of
die retail trade,' and actually proved a pro*
tiibition of any fair trade in tnat way ; but
wery one knows, it did not diminish the
Mmsomption, nor prevent the excessive
ue of spirituous liquors. They were not,
it is true, retailed publicly and avowedly,
kt 4hey were clandestinely retailed m
every coffee-house and ale-house, and in
naay shops and private houses; so that
die use and even the abuse of spirituous
liquors continued as frequent, though not
N^ apparent, as before the act was made,
lad the consumption rather increased
hh diminished, as appears from the
[VOL. XII.]
BOL A. IX ITIS. [IMt
amount of th^ duty fiir Ame last twd
years.
Thus, my knds^lhe caae stands at pre^
sent: the pemicionsneas of these liquors^
when drank to excess, is upon all hands
admitted : an attempt has been made to
prevent this excess, but by doing too
much we have done nothing. This Bill i«
therefore designed as a new experiment^
in order to correct the faults of the for^ier,
and,I hopc^ it will have its effect. We
find by experience, we cannot absolutely
prevent the retailinc of such liquors; be?
cause if we prevent weir being retailed in
an open fair way, they mil be retailed in
ackmdestine smuggling manner. What
then are we to doF Does not common
sense point out to us the most proper me*
thod, which is, to allow their being pub-
licly retailed, but to lay such a duty
upon the still-head and upon Ueences, as»
without amounting to a prohttiition, will .
make them come so dear to the cooawner^
that the poor will not be able to launch
out into an excessive use of them. Hus*
I am persuaded, will be die consequence
ofv^hatis now proposed: thedu^ pro*
posed upon licences is so moderate, that
every ale-bouse and coSee-hpuse in the
kingdom will take out a licence; eon-
se(iuently those liquors will be openly and
fairly retailed by gitat numbers of people;
but this duty, together witfi the duty pro-
posed to be laid upon the stUl-head, wiU
raise the price so, as to put it out of the
power of the meaner sort of peqile to
purchase too great a quantitjr of thenar
without putting it out of theur power to
have a sii^ile dram when it ia absolutelr
necesaaxy for the support of nature, wUdl
is often the case in um cold climate, esna>-
cially in damp foagy weather, or in manb j
Or fenny parts of the country.
Thus, my lords, the adcbtieiuil dutiea
will prevent the excess when the liquor i|
purcnased from a Air retailer, aimi the
peat nuaaber of fiur retailers will make
it difficult for any one to retaS in a dan-
destine manner. The law which isby thia
Bill to be repealed could not, we Cnoir,
be executed, ror want of informers whose
veracity coidd be depended on. This wiU
not be the case after this Bill is passed into
a law; because every nan tdio takeaona
a licence will be bound in interest to d^
tect and inform against dandestine rei*
tailexB, so that it is to be hoped there w9l
be soon no such retailer in the kingdom ;
and it will be easy to keep fair retailers
under some sort of order, because a man's
[*H3
IflOS]
16 GEdltGJfr U.
Dihtde fit the L6rd$
[m
Ko0Dte may ¥e taken from bim, if he
iliould appear to be one who encourages
or allows excessive drinking 6f spirituous
liquors in his house. I therefore wonder
how it can be supposed, that this Bill will
encourage or promote the excessive use of
such liquors. Can this be supposed of a
Bill which is designed to bring the retail
of such liquors under proper regulations ?
Can it be supposed, that the doubling of
the duty upon any commodity will en-
crease the consumption of it? ^Nitimur
in vetitum' is I know a common proverb,
and may be assigned as one of the reasons
for the late increase in the consumption of
spirituous liquors ; but this reason is now
to be taken away, and suppose the inclina-
tions of the poor should continue as strong
as before, 1 think, the impossibility of their
being able to drink so much after this Bill
is pMsed, as they did before, may be de*
monstrated ; for as the duties are now to
be doubled upon all home made spirits,
and as experience has shewn^ that wnen a
duty of one penny is laid upon any com-
modity, the retailer lays another, it may
be reckoned, that the same quantity of
r' 'ts vdll next year cost SOOfiOOl. more
it did this year, which is a much
larger additional sum than our poor ein-
drinkers can possibly raise, and ther^ore
they must necessarily retrench in the
quantity they make use of^ in proportion
as the price is advanced.
I am therefore convinced, my lords,
that this Bill will have an immediate effect
as to the preventing of all clandestine re-
•tailinff of spirituous liquors, which is in it-
self of great consequence, because it will
enable the government in a great measure
4o prevent the excessive use ; and this, I
tliink, is the only grievance complained of,
for I never heard that a single moderate
dranij even of the pernicious liquor called
gin, was either a crime or a sin ; and
whatever some abstemious and whimsical
physicians may say, others will tell you,
that a modoste dram of some sort of
«pirituous liquors or other, or what in their
terms is called a cordial, is necessary upon
many occasions for the relief or support of
nature: nay, even the most abirtemious
among them will prescribe a dram or cor-
dial, when they are paid the usual fee for
their prescr^tion, and their friend the
apothecary a most extravagant price for
what he purchases, as other ran retailers
do, for a mere trifle from the distiller.
Beside this good effect, my lords, of
preventing the clandestme ritailingof gm.
tlie Bill will certainly diminish tbe con-
sumption, in my o|Hmon, at least one third
and this diminution will as certsinly M
upon the abuse, and not upon the lDod^
rate use of this liquor ; for wbenneceaBitj
requires, even the poor will still be aUe
to purchase, but by the advance of the
price, it will be put out of their power to
commit a debauoi, or, at least, not sofre-
ouently as they may now do; sod if it
should appear, that the price is still too
low for preventing the poor from intoxi-
cating tnemselves frequently with this
liquor, you may double or treble tbe dutj
next session ; for the duty itself, so far as
I can find, is not to be mortgaged: itrs
only the duty upon licences that is to be
mortgaged, and that duty, will 1 h^%
continue to be a sufficient fund for aU
that is to be borrowed upcm it, erea
though you should raise the duty upon
the still*nead so high as to amount to a
prohibition of all home made spirits, whidi,
on account of our British distdlery, I hope
you will never do. There is therefore
no danger of the anking fund's beiog
mortgaged, by the money to be rabed in
consequence of this Bill, and if there were,
if the sinking fund were now directly to
be mortgaged, the circumstances we are
in at present, and the dangerous circum*
stances the affiiirs of Europe are in, would
be a suflBcient excuse for it.
I shall grant, my lords, that in time cf
peace, the sinking fund oughttobe deen-
ed sacred, and ought never to be oonTeit>
ed to any use but tluit of disdisripog a
part of our public debts ; but in time of
war, ifhd when the nation is in immediate
danger, the most sacred treasure may and
ought to be made use of, when it becoinei
necessary for our immediate presemtion.
For this reason, if the question now before
us were really what the noble lord saji it
is, I should be under no difficulty in giv*
ing it an affirmative ; because, I thioki
our very being, or at least oar inde-
pendency, must attend the fate of the p^^
sent war in Germany ; for if the Gensas
empire should be brought under a d^
pendency upon France, which may pro-
bably be the event of the present war,
if we do not most strenuously interpose, 1
am sure, we could not long support our-
selves as a nation independent of that
monarchy. But this, as 1 have shewn, is
not the question now before us: tbe sink-
ing fund may be added as a collatenl
security, because it is not known what tbe
duty upon licences may produces tin s
905]
•fi the S]^ritwm$ Liqaltrt BUL
A. D. 17«.
[IMf
eceasary for enablbg the govenunentto
orrow money at a low interest ; but I do
ot think the sinkmg fund is in the least
anger of becomingliabletothatdebty for
hich it is to be made a collateral security.
Lnd as the Bill now before us repc^als a
tw which was alwa^^ deemed whimsical,
nd has been found ineffectual : as it esta^
iishesa method for preventing the ex-
essive use of spirituous liquors, which, I
m convinced, will have a great e&ct ;
ad as it will furnish the government with
sum of money which is necessary upon
le present occasion, and which cannot,
thmk, be in any other way so conve-
iently raised, I shall be for having the
lill passed into a law, and consequently
shall be for the present motion.
The Bishop of Oxford:^
My lords; the question, which in
his debate ought to be first discussed, is,
Vhether the retailmg of spirituous liquors
D small quantities ought at any rate to
le permitted; and upon this question I
lan determine myself without the least
lesitation: we may allow them to be dis-
)enBed, but we ought not, 1 wish we never
»d allowed them to be retailed. The
Irinking them to excess must by every
me be condemned, and indeed the drink-
Dg of any strong or intoxicating liquors
0 excess must be condenmed by every
nan who has either religion or cmrnnon
lense. But the diffierenoe between spirit
nous and other strong liquors lies in this;
f aU other stronf^ liquoni a man must
Irink a large quantity, and most be at it
t long time, bobre he is quite deprived of
us reason : he has time to reflect of what
le is about, and, I am told, even the liquor
taelf becomes nauseous before a man can
>e quite fuddled; so that a man must put
tsort offeree upon himself, before he can
iwallow down so much of any other sort
yf strong liouor as to deprive hunself of
^ sense ana reason. But with spirituous
iquor the case is vastly diftrent : a small
RDtity, no more perhaps than a man
^ swallow down at a dnu^ht, deprives
lim of all reason and reflection, and the
Mmpoundine dbtillers have contrived so
aany wa^ for rendering the spirit palata-
ble, that It never grows nauseous, but on
^ contrary, the sot swallows it down
^ Dr. Thomas Seeker, whose llanascript
Reporti of the IMntcs in the House of Lnds
ntm 1735 to 1743, have so largely oontrilmtcd
A the fahit of this CoDectipii.
with pleasure, even w|ien he has sqare^
thepower to hold it to his head*
xnus your lordships see, that, with re*
gard to the temptation, there is a very
great difference between spirituous liquoia
and other sorts of strong liquors ; and
with regard to the consequences of drink-
ing to excess, there is likewise a vast dif«
ference. An excess in strong liquoni
may nuike a man drunk, an excess in spi«
rituous liquors makes him mad. A maa
who gets drunk with beer or ale, or ev^
with wine, generally goes to sleeps he ia
seldom mischievous; but a man whogeti
drunk with spirituous liquors, seldom goea
to sleep before he does mischief,, either to
himselt or some other person. An habi*
tual drinking of strong liquors to excesa
may brin^ the gout, but an habitual dcink*
ing of spirituous liquors to excess bringa
certain, and often sudden death. A9 the
pernicious consequences of drinking apiri*
tuous liquors to excesa are admowTeaged
even by those who appear as advocatoi
for this Bill, I shall not insbt much upoQ
them, but permit me to remind your lord«
ships of the horrible scenes that a^>eared
Eublich^ in our streets before passms the
iw, whidi you are now to repeat Aknosi
in everv street we had two or three gin-
shops filled with such company aa nQ
sober man could view without horror, and
yet this was not the worst : there was aa
invisible scene still more horrible to think
of; for they tell me, every one of thesif
gin*8hops liad a back shop or cellar, strow*
ed everv mominff with fresh straw, whera
those that got orunk were thrown, men
and women promiscuously together: here
they might commit what wickedness they
pleased, and bv sleepbg out the dose thej
nad taken, make themselves ready to taka
anodier, if they could find money to pay
for it. These open scenes of wickedness
we have got rid of by the law you are
now to repeaL But this law, it is said^
did not put a stop to the consumption!
though spirituous liquors were not pub*
lidy, they were privately retaOed as much
as ever: 1 am sorry for it, my lords, but
this shall never be an argument with ma
for allowing a public retail: Ishallalwava
be for coimning vice as much as possibia
to holes and comers ; and it must be al^
lowed, that the temptation can never be
so great or so general, as when we hava
a public shop at every comer, where a
poor passenger is often drawn in by soma
tHeno^ perm^ some female friend, and by
varied of company wA example^ u wfB
liOT]
16 OBOXGB IL
CI brtbeiMiuei^ tiw liquor iudf, is in-
ticea to drink toomach.
It Is thit temptation, mj lords, which by
l^tiiblio shops is thrown into ever^ man's
way, that makes me acainst admitting of
Any puUic retail, and iwish it were possi-
ble to prevent any priTate. I shaD not
take upott me to buune our magistrates
and officers of justice; but if the kw now
in being be such a one as cannot be exe-
Mted, surely it may, and ought to be
aDBiended% Surely some law may, and
aoght to be oontnved, which may be exe-
cuted; fbr even the private retafl of spi-
rituous liquors produces daily most terrible
Biischieft. but the other day, as I have
been oredibly informed, there were two
<Aihlren murdered by giving them a spoon-
ibl of that pernicious liquor callea gm,
ind many children are mindo^d in die
Womb, or upon the breast, by the mother's
drinking too plentifully of diat intidngand
bewitdune liquor, whidi is certamly poi-
aonoUB,when taken b too great a quantity,
and the poison is the more dangerous, be-
cause It never nauseates, but, on die con-
trary, provokes a second draught, the se-
cond a third, and so on, dH the unhappy
fMtient has taken too great a dose ; and
whan one dose is wore OS by sleep, it leaves
Such a languor as mdkes a new dose neces-
safy for recruiting the spirits, which is die
reason, that those who once besin to de-
bauch in this sort of liquor, sddom give
ever nmeadng the dose, till they have
dosed themseRes mto their graves. Poi-
sons, nrf lords, of all sorts, ought to be
confined to the apothecarv's sho^, where
the master's dlanicter, ana even his bread,
depends upon his not administering too
great a dose to any person whatever, and
%rhere the price Is generally too hig^ for
any poor man to commit a debauch. W3i
you then commit the care of dispensing
dils poison to every ale-house-keeper in
the kingdom, I may sav to every man in
the kingdom, who is willing to pay half a
crown to the jusdces, and twen^ Riflings
eyear to the government for a licence >
will you enable them to dispense this
S^ison at so cheap a rate, that a poor
oughdesB creature may get drunk fbr
diree-pence, and may purchase immediate
deathtbrashiilin|? A cordial may be ne-
cessary in some distempers, and may be of
aervice to the pAtient, when moderately
and skilfuOy administered ; but no climate,
wo temperature of the air, can make a dram
•f spintttouB liquors necessary to a person
In fidl heddi and vigour. iBven m our
most foMT weather, or in die man femij
parts of the countiy, I am convmced, •
draught of good warm beer would hsve a
better eflfect against the indemency of die
weadier, thsn a dnun of any kind; wi
therefore, there is no necessity for adauk-
ting of any public retaiL
But this BiU, we are told, is intended
for putting an eod to thedandesdne retsd
trade now carried on, and that b^ es-
handne the price of the commodity, it wB
diminish the consumption. As to its pat-
ting an end to the clandestine retsdl tiade,
I believe, it wiH have in a great measoxe
its eiect ; fbr very few will run the risk of
carrying on a dandesdne trade, when the;
may have a Kcenoe at so chesp a rate »
twenty shiDings a year; and by the ssaie
method you might put an eM to cvoj
other sort of dandestme trade. But at to
the enhancing of die price Se tfaecoo-
sumer, or diminidung the cooaomptin,
this BOlwillnot, I amconvmcedyfaavetbe
least effect Ontfaeeontntty,tliecoauoo-
dity may, by thb Bill, be brought dMspv
to the conauBser; beomse diediatiBer,die
oompounder, mai the ictider, eBeddl^
the latter, wil adl at a less profit; i«r
surely the twenty shillings to be paid fav
the retailer is not near eqiHl toibenk
every clandestine retaOer mtm runs; sad
both our distillers and coaBpauBdersknov,
that they will get more by vendky 1(\060
gaOons at 8dL per gailon prafil, thanbj
vendmg 1,000 gaBans at 6dL per gaioB
profit; therefim, in order to inoa— tbe
consuomtion, or at Beast to prnveut in
being aJminidwid, diey will certainly, b
ny opinioB, take tbedu^ upon dmnselvsi,
andsdl their Hquoca to die retaOer at the
very same price they sold It beftre dik
new duty was haposed. Tbat thev wiD
be sUe to da so, 1 have season to hdievc,
from the great estates some of then have
of late years amassed, and fraaa die lov
prioe sudi liquors are sold for in HoMand;
for if our dsdBers would conSeiBt ihoB-
sehes with as Bttle profit, I can aae no
reason adiy they may not aell Ifaair Mmn
as dwap as the Dttoh distflieffa do thsas.
Prom benoe^ my lords, i thiak, I haw
reason to auppoae^ that our borne asaJf
spirits win be sdd as cheap to the coa-
sumer after Ais new du^ tittes pfaiee, m
ever they were before. Wbetber or oo I
am riffht in ray coDJeetur^ will soon ap-
pear mas esperienee; and if ttdionld w-
pear to be richt, whi^ then wfll your Ion*
ships have done } You will have revived
that terrible grievance, whieh w«s ao muAf
cnih$ SpifUttcm tiqmn Bitt.
A. D. vns.
cm*
mI to jsmdj comphtned of teven yean
go ; 8Qd you frill not tben, perfaaps, hate
i in your power to apply any remedy or
edrees; for if the contumpttoo be In-
ffeased, as I think it will, it will bring m
udi a considerable rerenue, that no ad-*
nmistration wiU be wiDing to part with it»
r consent to any law for redressing the
grievance, because it will annihilate, or
lery mach diminish the rerenue. This ii
i danger which your lordships should se-
iouslj consider, before you give your
enction to a law that may, prmMibly, be
strodttctory of so much mischief; and this
hmger is increased by the mortgage that
I now to be made of me duty on licences ;
britwiH be pretended, and with reaifion
oOf that you cannot do any thing that may
nnen the produce of that duty, without
ke consent of the creditors to whom it ia
mortgaged, miless vou previoushr pay off
int mortgage ; and how you will be able
R) pay it oS^ without mortgaging the sink-
ing fund, is at present beydnd my compre-
msion; so that die noble lord's sugges-
tion, that the Bill now before us is omj a
BUttk fbr cOtacealing a design to mortgage
he sinking fond^ is not so void of fi>on£-
lion as the noble lord who qiokelastaeems
to imagine.
What danger this nation, or the liberties
of Europe, may be m at present from the
nnbitious designs of FrancCi I shall not
pretend to determine; but if we are in
my danger Aat way, it is a melandioly
consideration, that we must either submit
lo our enemies, or sacrifice the health, the
iodustty, nay tlie lives of our people, for
the salce of raisine a sum of money to de-
knd oursdves. 1 hope, we are not yet
brought under such a dilemma. It is not
toy province to stu^ ways and means,
bot mose that do have, I hope, in peUOf
Kveral methods for raising money, less
bartful than what is now proposed, llie
linking fbnd oosht, I grant, to be kept as
Ncred ai pessibfe ; but radier than agree
to such a destructive method as tiiis, I
rikould be for mortgaging the sinking fiind
in a direct manner, and witiiout any dis-
guise ; and as this may be done speedily,
& a ihort Bill brought into the other
3oose, as soon as your lordships have r6-
)(Cted this, our public afBdrs, either abroad
tt at home, can noway MSer by reiecting
this Bill ; for which reasim, I shall very
^«ely give my negative to themotbn.
My lorAi; though ^e loikiBg
fund was at fiait dasigmid, and was
appropriated to the-«araient of our pub-
lic debts contractea befbre 1716, yet
as there was no stipidation nor engage-
ment between the public and its cre^
ditors when that fund was established, I
was alwinra of opmion, that the publie
mifi^t make use of it in cases of necessitv,
and in such cases only; for I never thought
that it ouffht to be wantonly meddled with,
or applied towards supportmg the expence
of Spithead expeditions^ and mudi leai
that It might be applied towards giving a
sham rdief to our landed genttemen, oy
making them pay TWfiOOL uistead oJf
500,oa){. tdiich was the case of taking the
sah duty from the amking f\md, upon a
pretence of giving relief to our poor la-
Dourers and manufacturers, and reviving
it the very next year, i^>on a pretence m
freeing our lanaed gentlemen from the
payment of one shilling in the pound land
tax for one year.
In this respect, my lords, I am still of
the same opinion: if our ministers are re*
soked to o^ert themselves with vigour, in
conjunction with our allies, for supporting
abalanoe of power in Europe, I shall be not
only for applving the annual produce of
ti^e sinking fund to the service of the
war, but even for mortgaging some part of
it, if it should become wsohitely neces-
sary to do so; but if we are only to make
a snew of our armies in Flanders, as we
fonnerly did of our squadrons at the Bas-
tiinent(», and upon me coasts of Spain,
wUdi I am afraid will at last appear to be
the case, for such a purpose, 1 ttunk, our
sinking fund ought not to be meddled
with, much less mortgaged, either direct^
4y. or indurectiy; thermflre, whether you
mortgage the rinking fund direcdy, or
by way of collateral security, my apnroba-
tion must depend upon the use that is
made of the money so raised: if a proper
use be made of the money, I shall approve
of the mortgage, because, as I have said, i(
was always my opinion, that the nublic had
a right to make use of the sinldng fund
in caees of necessity. But as several lords
have, upon fonner occasions, declared
themselves of a cofitrary opinion, I muM;
sM^, I am not a little surprized to see some
or them now proposing as a collhteral se-
curity, the mortgage <n a fund which they
then deemed sq sacredly appropriated to
the parent of our .public debts, that no
necessity whatever ought to prevail with
us to apply even its annual produce to any
other purpose.
1S113
16-GBORGB IL
' The Earl of CAofenonAfey .• '
My lords; ifthe subject we are now
upon were properly and fully understood,
I. cannot think, the relations proposed
by this Bill would occasion any dilute,
and therefore 1 shall beg leave to^ve you
m short history of the British distillery,
which has been of great benefit to thisna-
tion« and may be of much greater if pro*
perly encouraged and reeulated. I shall
ireadilv agree witli the learned prelate,
that if it were possible, it would be very
right to confine spirits of all kinds to the
apothecary's shop, and to take care that
)£ey should never be dispensed from thence
but by the advice of a physician, or to per*
sons labouring under some real infirmity.
Thi£>» I believe, would be of service both
to the health and morals of the people :
nay, if you should do as the Mahometans
bave done, if you should make the tastins
of any sort of strong liquor heretical, ana
prevail so iar as to prevent any person's
beins ever guilty of tnis heresy, wnich, by
the bve, they never could do, I believe, it
would do no harm either to the healtli or
the morals of the people; and, I am sure,
it would save them a great deal of money
and time* But this has always been
deemed, and in these cold climates, I be-
lieve, it will always be found to be impos-
fable. Spirituous liquors, as well as other
ptrong liquors, the people will drink, and
if you do not allow them to do it openly,
where the government can keep the use of
auch liquors under some regulations, they
wiU do it privately, where the govern-
ment has no power to regulate: If you
do not iumish them with spirits of your
own manufacture, which costs the nation
little or nothing, they will furnish them-
selves with spirits of a foreign, which car-
ries off yearly large sums of money, and
diminishes greatly the general balance of
your trade. This was the case before our
^British distillery was brought to any per-
fection; for large quantities of French
brandies and other foreign spirits were
yearly imported, which was a grievance
complained of, so long ago as in the reign
of king Charles the first.
The cause of this great importation was
then, I suppose artfully, imputed to the
unskilfulness of our British oistillers, and
to their extracting their spirits firom bad
materials, which prevented their being
made use of generally among the people ;
and this was made a pretence, in tne 14th
year of that reign, when exclusive diarters
DOxdemihtLordt ., [ISlf
and patents were very conmran,- because
of the advantages accruing therefinom to
courtiers: I say, it was then a pretence
for incorporating the distillers in and about
London, and granting them the sole prhW
le^ of makins spirits and Yin^ar in the
cities of London and Westminster, axid
within 21 miles round the same. But this
proved no cure for the disease ; and indeed
no man of any knowledge in trade caa
suppose, that a monopoly will ever improve
or increase a manufacture. The importa-
tion of French brandies continned as great
as ever, and increased to such a degree,
that it was loudly complained of in the
reigns of Charles and James the second;
but during that period of time, our court
was too much Frenchified to atteinpt any
thing against an importation firom France.
At last the Revolution todc place, and the
interest of England, as well as the nature
of trade, began to be better understood,
and more impartially cultivated: accord-
ingly in the second year of king -WiUbm
and queen Mary, an act was passed for
encouraging the distilling of brandy and
^irits from corn ; whereby it was enacted.
That during the continuance of that act,
any person might distil for sale any loir
wines or spirits from drink brewedf firom
malted corn, only payins the duties, and
being subject to uie pendties as other dis-
tillers ; and all letters patent made, or to
be made, for the sole making of brandy cr
other spirits from com of any sort, as a
new invention, were thereby declared Toid.
As this act, my lords, gave a fall liberty
to every one to exercise the trade of di&>
tilling, and as all trade and commerce with
France was then prohibited, it gave a real
encouragement to the British distiSery,
and very much increased the consomplioD
of home-made spirits, the advantage of
which was sensibly felt by our &nn&s, be-
cause it opened to them a mailcet for their
q>oilt and coarse sorts of com, which they
never before could make any thing of;
therefore the act which was at first made
for; five years, was continued for one year
longer, and though it then expired, yet die
benefitaccruing to thenation,Dy thuslaymg
the business or trade open, was so seqwiy
felt, that by a dausem an act passed the
very next year,- 1 mean the 8th and 9th of
king William, it im enacted. That any per-
son who had then set up, or should aner-
wardsset up any works or offices for making
or distillineforsale, anv low wines orspiritB,
from drink brewed from malted coni or
cyderi. giving aotioa.to the
1813]
•n the Spirituoui Llqumn Sitt*
A. B. 174&
[1214
if excise* within ten days after the enter^
ing such office or work, might follow such
rorky and might refine the spirits of their
urn making, paj^g the dutiest and being
lohject to the fines and penalties as other
iistillers. The trade being thus laid en-
irely open by a perpetual law, man;^ per*
Mms set up in London and Westminster
0 weH as other places^ who were not free
if the company erected, as I have men-
lonedyby king Charles the 1st; and though
kat company had then no right from their
jiarter to prosecute any person for so
loiDg, yet as all companies are for mono-
loiizmgy this company took advantage of
he act in queen Elizabeth's time, and
rought actions against many of the dis-
iDerSy not free of theff company, for using
n art or mystery, in which they had not
erved an apprenticeship of seven years;
lOt so caireful was the leffislature to pre-
ent every thing that mi^t be a discou-
igement to our distiUery, that in the last
ear of queen Anne, an end was put to
bMe and such like actions, by enacting,
liat any person might distil brandy or
lirits from British mak or cyder^ without
eing-Hable to be prosecuted on this
Isoseofthe said statute of queen Eliza-
eth. And in the Mutiny Act passed the
rst year of the late king, the houses
r distiflers, who did not aUow of tipplinff
1 their houses, were escpressly excepted
om being burdened with the quartering
r soldiers, which exception has been
tpeated in eyery Mutiny Act passed since
Bt time. Nay even tiU the latter end of
te kite reign, the l^islature continued its
ndness for encouraging the British dis*
lery ; for in the 12th of his late majesty
was enacted, Tliat if any merchant im-
>rter should refuse to pay the duties for
ines, as being damaged, corrupt, or un*
erchantable, which by a former act
ire, in that case, to be staved and de-
royed, the commissioners of the customs
ight cause such wines to be put into
u^houses, and publidy sold, m order
be distitted into brandy, or made into
legar.
^fy lords, under these repeated favours
d' encouragements, the British distillery
unshed ana increased to a great degree,
that not only large sums were thereby
red yearl3r to the nation by preventing
a importation of foreign spints, but great
antitiea were exported yearly to Africa
d other places. • In the mean time an
11 arose ianperceptibly from what in all
ler trades is an advantage : our distillers
became so expert in their business, and
sold thdr manufacture so. cheap, that our
poor began to drink it extrava^ntly, and
to commit frequent debauches m it, to the
destruction of^ their health, their morals,
and their industry. This evil became at
last so great, that it ^ve a violent turn to
the spirit of the legulature, and nothing
coula satisfy but a total prohibition of W
compound spirits which were the most
paktable, and consequently most used as
well as most abused by our poor. This
occasioned that law of the 2d of his
present majesty, the preamble o^ which
uas been read to you, and by which a
duty of ^^e shillings per gallon, over and
above all other duties, was laid on all com*
p<mnd spirits, and every retailer of such
spirits was obliged to have a licence, and
topay2(V. yearly for the same. This was
really a total prohibition of any man's re-
tailing such spirits in an open and fitir
manner ; but many continued to do it pri«
vately, and the law was evaded by making
and retailing a simple sort of spirit, in de»
rision called parliament brandy, so that
the debauching in spirituous liquors con-
tinued as general among the poor as ever.
The law being thus found to be inefiectual i
and oiir farmers complaining of the loss o^
a market for their coarse sort of com, it
Ee a new and a contrary violent turn to
spirit of the legislature ; and in the 6th
year of his present majesty's rei^, the
said act was repealed, without making any
regulation for preventing the excessive use
of such liquors.' This, my lords, of course
produced a very bad efect: the poor
beinff restored to their liber^ of getting
drui& as usual, like men set free from m
jail, they made a most extravaganf use of
that liberty ; and Ijiis revived in the legis**
lature a spirit more violent than ever
against the use of any sort of spirituous
liquor, whicli occasioned the passing of a
law in the 9th year of his present majesty,
by which the retailing of spirituous liquors
of any kind was in eflEect absolutely pro*
hibited.
From the bad success of the former
prohibitory law, one would have thought,
my lords, that our. legislature should have
been more cautious upon this occasion*
The impossibility of executing the. law
proposed wasforetold by many, both within
doors and without ; but so furious was our
zeal, that no heed was given to such pro*
phecies, and consequently the law, wnich
IS now to be repealed, was passed without
any great oppfiisition.. What was the coq«
1315] 1» QEORGG U.
•B^eneef No man could, no man would
•bienrethelaNT; and it gave such a torn to
Ibe spirit of the people, that no nten could
with saftty renture to become an inlbnner.
Even the very conuneiioeinent of thehiw
exposed us to the danger <^ a rebellion : an
Misttnrectioaofthepopulacewaathreatened,
nay the government had information of
its being actually designed, and very
wisely oraered the troops to be drawn out
and posted in the several places where the
mob was likely to assemble, which, per-
haps, prevented a great deal ef bloodshed,
and the law began to be executed without
any forcible opposition. As there were
wutiAudes of offenders, there >ras pre-
' senlly a muhitode of informations; but as
soon as aqy man was known to be an in-
fermer, he was assaulted and pelted bv
the mob, wherever they could meet with
him. A aoUe peer was obliged to open
his gates to one of these unfortunate erea*
tares, in order to protect him from the
mob, who were in nill cry, and would pro-
bably have tore him to pieces, if they
eould have Imd hold of him ; for they had
before actuidhr murdered some of these
informers. This was nol the only difli<
culty: the magistrates themselves were in
danger if they appeared aealous in the
executioii of this law.: the proseettti<His
were vastly expensive, and when ihe per-
son was convicted, seldom any thing could
be recovered, so tkit it put the govern-
ment to an infinite expence.
Thus, my loids, wk new prohibitory
hw increased the evil it was intended to
remove ; so that the excessive yse of spi-
lituoos liquors is now more general, and
more frequent than ever it was hereti^re.
In this case, niy lords, is it not necessary
to do somethmg for leawnine at l^ist, if
Tou cannot remove this evu, which has
Doen so lona, and is now so loudly com-
plained of? What can vou do ? surely you
will not do as you did before : you will
not repeal this prohibitory law, without
aubstttutbg somelidng in its stead. This
is what is intended by the Bill now brfpre
us. We. cannot, we^find, entirely prevent
the use of spiritaous liquors : ana there-
fore, if we could, we ought not to prevent,
or too much discourage the use of our
own. It would destroy ibe Britairii distil-
lery, which is now of so much advantage
to the nation, and maintains, or hdps to
maintain peat numbers of people: it
would agam eapose us to an inundation €€
IVenchhrandiea. The moderate nse of
spiritaous liquors,, especially those of our
JMaUinikeLoirA , rjgij
own manufacture, is not lAatii, or oq«|||
to be conyiained of: it is the exoiiiaf«
use that is attended with all thoK &ul
omsequences which have beenmentioBed.
Does not common sense in this esse poot
out to us, that we oi^ght to eodea? our to
prevent the excessive, without pnttbgtW
moderate use ofourhome-msde^iriuois
of any one's power? «
My lords, as the excessive use of tbeM
liouors prevails most among our poor m
orpeopJe, the best and most propernr
for doing this is, certainly, in my opiaioB,
to lay a small duty upon the miS,
and another upon Sconces, and to pmot
any clandestine letaiL By the dobei jm
wiB so much enhance the price of diei-
quor, that the poor will never, oc bttim
seldom, be able to pnrdiMe a deboack;
and bv preventing a clandestine rstal,yw
will always have the retailers uader jw
ey^ and may punish them if tfas^ iM
encourage tippling or drunkenowiB thai
houses. Whether the duties prapoHd
upon the still-head and upon lioennihi
too small, is v4uit I shall not stpreaa
determine, because it has aolhiag to do a
this debate: it can ooase under your o>^
sideration no where, but when yoa m a
a committee imon the BilL ilowever,a
present, I shall beg leave to ob6ervi,thl
if you make the duties too high yoa o^
not prevent a chndesrine trade, arivl
deprive the poor even of the modntom
of these liquxxs in a fidr way of purcbui^
which will be deemed a haidshq^ bj ib
populace; and thisin afreecountrrvl
rend^ the execution of the law asagmai
if not impracticable.
Upon the whole, my lordb,IcaiW
no solid objection i^mnst tlm Bi. I
thmk it a most neceasarr BiH, emt^
posing, that no part <tt thesoppijrvai
theiwy to be raised* Butasam^prt
of the supply for next year im to he tand
by this Bill, I begin to suspect, tfaitik
opposition proceeds chiefly from Aon
?rao are against our aiving the ^mb i
Hiaigary any e&ctuuasttsfeuica,SDdaik
therefore, for retarding, or dinppoiBliv
his majesty of those mippMes thst are oe*
cessary for that purpose. As I an Ar
giving her Hungarian majoBty the noa
speec^, as well as the most eftctnal »
sistance, I am for expediting with the oIp
most diq>atch, all the suppues neceaaj
for that purpose. This adds grestiy te
my seal, not only for the pasBDg,bat&r
tfate speedy passing of this ml, and, there-
fore, I shall hearSy concur in thesMiv*
m]
on Me SfMumu Liquors Bill,
A. D. 174S,
[IS1»
The Earl of Chesterfield .•
My knrdi; the noble lord who
poke last seemed' mtome part of what he
lid to forget, that the Bill now before us
» a Money J^ll, sent up to us from the
tfaer Houses and, consequently, accord-
ig to the rule of that House, such a one
s we must either reject or pass without
fpendment ; for our amending it in any
lart, especially in that which relates to
lie quantum of the duties to be imposed,
rill he the same, nay worse than our di-
ectly rejecting it; because the other
louse, upon the single' account of our
mending it, wiU certainly reject it ; and,
onsequently, our making any amendment
1 the committee will be of worse conse-
pence than our rejecting the Bill now
ipon the second readmg, because it will
(eeasioa a longer delay in providing for the
ervice of the ensuing year* I am very far,
ny lords, from yielding to the other House
wrnghtofamendingaMoneyBiU: Ithink
re him as good a right to amend any
Sill that comes from them, as they have
o amend any Bill that comes from us : but,
i believe, tliey will be as obstinate in not
fieidin| to us, as we can be in not yield-
Bg to uem ; and when we go into a com*
nittee upon this Bill, I am persuaded, the
\iMe lord who spoke last, or some of his
Uend», will make use of this dispute be-
Rveen the two Houses as an argument for
Mir agreeing to the Bill without anv
aaendment* Therefore, I hope, they will
now allow us to consider, whether the
loties proposed to be laid upon the still-
bsad and upon licences be too small, or
promise not to make use of this argument
r'nst our considering this question in
committee.
My lords, I shall always be as ready as
my lord in this House to agree to the sup-
plies necessary for the ensuing year, and
f we could give effectual assistance to the
lueen of Hunganjr, I should be as zealous
or it as any man in this kingdom; but at
the same time I must be &r raising the
lupplies in that manner, which may be
least hurtful to the people ; and therefore,
«hen the ot3ier House, whose business it
b to raise the supplies, are artfully led
Into any pernicious method of raising
them, I shall never make the least scruj^e
to reject what they thus propose, because
Ihey may easily resume the committee of
ways and means, and there contrive a new
BBethod of raistng the supply, uoon finding
that this House had /ejected the fint
LVOL.XIL]
method thought of by them. Our reject-
ing this Bill Uierefore can be no interrupt
tion to our eiving efiectual assistance to
tlie queen of Hungary, if it should appear
to be in our power; but if none of the
other great powers of Europe will join
with us, I do not think it will be in our
power to give her effectual assistance, and
if we cannot give her effisctual assistance,
I do not think we ought to run ourselves
into any dangers or difficulties, for the
sake of giving her an assistance which can
serve only for putting off the evil day with
respect to her, and bringing it the sooner
on with respect to ourselves.
This,' I hope, my lords, our ministers
will consider, and as none of the great
powers of Europe seem as yet to be in
anjf great forwardness to join with us in
assisting the queen of Hungary, I can sett
no necessity for any extniordinary dis«
patch in our nusing the supplies. But if
there were, the rejecting or this Bill now -
upon the second reading, is the best me-
died we can take for having the supplies
raised with dispatch, and must be allowed
to be so, if I can shew, that we tnight not
to pass it without aA amendment in the
most material part, wnich is that relating ^
to the quantum of the duties to be laid
upon the distilling and retailing of home*
made spirits. For my part, 1 am sur-
prized, now any lord of^this House can
suppose the Bill to be d^gned for sup-
pressing or putting a stop to die ezcessiv#
drinking of spirituous liquors : in my opi-
nion, the veiy title of the BDl ought to be
altered: it ought to be called a Bill for
encouragmg tte consumption of such K*
quors, by enablmg all the poor in dio
kmgdom to get drunk as otten as the^
please. The present abuse in this way ii
acknowledged by every lord who has spoke
in this debate, and yet it must be allowed,
that every one who retails them under tho
present prohibition runs a very great risk.
Can wer suppose, that the rettoleir does
not consider this risk in settling the price
at which he sells his liquors? Canwesup<»
pose, he would not sell them cheaper,
especially when great numbers are con-^
tending and underselling one anothar, if
he could retail them without any risk t
A small duty is, it is true, by thb Bill to
be laid upon the still-head, and anothei^
upon licences; but both together wiU nof
amount to near the value of the risk which
the dandestine retailer now runs ; there^ »
ibre I must condude, that after this Bill
is passed mto n law,* gia will bo aoM
If 19] 16 G90BGB IL
cbeuper to the coosum^ by the lioensed
rst(u(er| than it is now sold by the claa-
^esUaei and coaseqaently that the poor
will then be bet^ able to launch out into a
debauph with that Hquof t)uui they are now.
I shaU granty mj lords, that gin is now
clandestinely retailed at most Se-house^
and at niaily other sorts of houses ; but
this is done privately, and to such pec^le
^ the landlord can trust. It is not sold
opf nly in a public room, where variety of
companies meet, and where the example
of one company incites another to the
use, perhaps the abuse of this pernicious
Ii<]^uor. This will be the case as naoti as
this Bill begins to t^e place, and tjie re- ,
straint a^ia fear people have now been
poder fpr almost seven ye^s, will make
them 1^ more extravafi;an^ when they
find the^iselveft at full vberiy. This Bul
viU UiereA>re, in my opi9v>% 9i4te alter
^9 0^ English sort; of drunl^enneaii which
EroQclpjed from hospitality, and good-fel*
ivshjjps' i^ tl\ey did in fijurmer days get
^unk, it iFas with strong beer or uc^
which is asort of soporific* While they
were drinking ^y w&te nieqy, when
they .got drunk uiey went to deep. But
OUT modern liquor called gin hag con-
ferted dimpWnfgs mto meriness. It ad*
mits ef no mirth^ no conversation: the
C9mp^ny grow mad before th^y well know
whet, ti)^ are about, and tbe mate tbey
dnnk, the more ripe they grow fiir any
IfidiedneBS.or extnvi^j^anoe.
. IfVa^vft my lords, is to be taxed, but
«ice prohibited, let die difBculties in exe-
muting the law be what they wilL Would'
y)9u lay % tax upon a breach of the ten
•ottimandoients? Would not such a tax
be wicked and scandalous; becaise it
would imply an indulaence to all, those
who could ptqr the taxT Is not this a re-
proach moat jus^y thrown by Protestants
upon the church of Rome ? Was it not
the chief canse.eif the Jlefbrmation ? And
will you follow a j^recedent which 4^rpught
s^roach' and ruin upon thope that, u^
troduoed, it I This is the very case noyi;
before us.t you ^ are going to liq^ a tax^
and consequently to indulge a sort erf*
drunkenness, which almo^ necessarily pro-
duces a breech of eveiy one of the ten
oomimaQditients. Can you expect the re-
nerend beoirh will approve of this! I am
. eon^inoed, they wiU not, and therefore, I
wish, I had seenjt full upon this occasion.
I am sure, I have sennit much fuller upon
other oQcasionsi in,w,hicb nsligion he^M
i»^ 4qbp con^i^ . . & ..
We have already, my lords,
sorts of fimds in this nation, so nttny t
a man must have a good deal of '
to be master of them. Thanfcatoi
testy, we have now amongst us the neat
learned map of the nation in tbia waj. I
wish he wquld rise up and tell us^ what
name we are to give to this new AincL We
have alreadv the Civil List FWid, the Sink*
ing Fund, tne AAsregiUe Fund, the South
Sea Fund, eaad God knows! how loaaj
others. What name we are to give fee
this n«;w fund I know not, unless we $t9
to call it the Drinking Fund. It oMiy per-
haps enable the people of a certain m
territory to drink claret, but it will 4i(
the people of thiskingckmi fimm drf-
any tiding else but gin; for whea a wnm
has by gin-drinking rendered himself aaiic
fpr labour or business, he can purchaseno-
thing ehiie, and then the beat thiag he csn
do is to drink on till he dies.
But, my lorc^, to tie serious upon tlii
subject, for it is really an affiiir thaide*
serves yoi|r most serious considefatioiH I
wish your lordships would declare whatii
truly ^our meaning by this Bifl; fer I
think It inconsistent with yoiv digaiqr te
declare what no man in E nghuad wiB h^
lieve you mefm. I therefi>r9 wish jou
would declare openly and freelyt that yea
herdby intend to enoonn^e and psomoie
the excesaivejdrinking ofgui, in oider Is
encvease hi^ majesty 's fevenue ; fiir ne n^
sonable v^aA will suppose yon intend te
discourage, mnoh leas prohibit, this viei^
by giving every man that j;Jcn«!ia an wh
dulgenoe, m^ inly to pncUsa k hiattsl^
but to promote it m othecsy upon ceadi»
tion of nis peyinjga small tax yearly. Bm
this reason, I think, youoo^t ta pn
the Bill ajpreamble in these or the
words : < Whereas his nujesty haa
sion for a large sum of money fiw bs»
taming his Hanover troops and the Britah
troops salt, for what pnrpose wn kneiv
not, to iPlandeKS; andwoereasa raycan*
siderable new revenue may be rwae^ kf
permitting the people (^Endand to poi
themsdves with a liqjoor caUed gpn^ wh
of late 3feara the poor have grown cs-
tremely fond of, thecrfore be it anaded,'
&c. Sudi a preamble, I shall gEant, onf
lords,^wonld not be veiy oonaistenl with
that r^ard which you profeas, and oa^
to have fjMr the peqple ; bik inny opiwiflB
it would be more oonsistent with yanr d^
nity than any other ; for no man of ha*
nour will proiess one thing when he meaas
tbe.direa.c$ntraiy>.aodanauiwlio haaa
»1]
tm tke S^pHhum tAquan BilL
^gard to Idi dharateter, will be cautious of
rofeBsing what no man in tke world will
elieve he moans.
This, my lords, will be the consequence
f your passing this Bill in tiie shape it
tands in at pressnt, and yon must pass it
I this shape or none, ^kxperience w31
M>n shew, that the general aadeheap in-
ulgence hereby given to the retailing of
in, will promote and increase the ezces-
ire drinking of it among the ^<^le. The
Me nation will soon see this, and it will
ire every man a good reason to doubt
our sincerity, or jyour judgment. Nay,
idler the one or the other must by every
an be condemned, which of course win ,
ring this aueust amembly into a general
ontempt, and such an offset, I hope, your
)rdsliips will always be solicitous to pre-
ent. But this wiU not be the only fatal
DDsequence : it wyi bring upon the nation
II the ills which were so severely felt, and
> generally complained of seven years
10. At ^lat time, I remember, tlie of-
cers of our army complained beavfly of
le fitta^'efiects of ffin-mrinking upon the
ommon soldiers ; wey soid, it made them
nfit for any sort of service, because many
f them were almost continually drunk,
nd whilst in that conditwn, they w:ere
ither so mutinous or so stupid, that they
^d not or could not obey any orders.
To this they added, that the constant use
f gm ddiiutated the common fidlows so
B to render them unfit for supporting any
Rt of ftUgue, nay, even that of going
liroorii thehr exercises at a review. How
lie omcers of our army come now to be
> silent, 1 do not know; but these eftcts
ill all, I am convinced, be renewed by
iir passing this Bill ; and will you do any
^in^ that allay tend to debilitate your
»ldiers and seamen, at a time when we
lost be undone, if one Enftlidiman is
ot able to beat three nencnmen i ¥ot
lis will be the oaae, if we enter into the
resoit wnr witfi such odds against us, as
lust be, if none of the ^reat powere of
»urope join with us in assistmg the queen
f Hungary ; and if we are not. to enter
ito the present war, we have no occasion
ir raising sudi sums of money as this BiU
designedibr.
ThenoidekHdwas pleased to give us a
nry exact histoiy of the progress of gin
I ttiis Ungdom,andto recommehd to our
itetlieBlitishdlsliletT. MylotdH^IshaH
rant, that the BritiditttiBeiyfaasforraahy
sai^bMivery much encoiuragcfd by m
li Mialli^gre^theiwHUid^aDd
still hive
livegreai
peopfo mi
A. IX IT4S. turn
our people most make usa of spifitiseus
liquors, i i^all always be for eneooragiog
them to make use of thoee of a haaMT ra«
therthan of a foreign manufacture. Bat
I shall never be for raising the Britisii
distillery iqpon the destruction of th#
British people; and therefore 1 shall ak
ways be for laying sudi restraints upon
the use of spirituous liquors, even those ef
our own manufacture, as may prevent a^
mudi as possible the people's destroying
themselves by the abuse. The means foe
doin^ this are known, and from ezperiencil
manifest : btandy and mm are certainly as
palatable as any sort of home-made spirtt^'
Set the abuse, or exoesshre use of thesa
quora never became geneM among tii#
people. What is the reason? My lords^'
the reason isj^ain: Wehave subjected thenf
to such high outies, as Tttider it impoiribla
for a poor man to eommit frequent de«'
bauches in diem; and if wilKng, we might
easily do the same with retard to all hemet
made spirits : a duty of three or fom^
diillings per gsOoB upon die still-heaA
woidd nave the same eieet astotfate, Aal
our high duties hare with respect to rum
and braa^ ; andthenaymentof tins dntjf
might be as easfly ana as effitetoally mt^
forced as the payment of the other: for a
still-house cannot be privatd|y set up, as
least it cannot be long concealed, and af
every known stOl-house th6 oSoers asay
easily prevent any oonceslnmits.
But sttcha duty as tfau, my lords, wouM
certainly diminisn theconsumution: Nay^
it would probably diminirii me retenua
arising from tiiat consmaption ; and thei^
fore, I am afiaidy it will never be tfao^diC
of, much leas propoaed by fliinistan» wbo
never value a du^, but, as HudibraB saja^
every ti^ie tone valned, accordiM to
the money it win bring* They may <£inia
in with a popular cry for tasring soma sort
of luxury, but if they caiiy thqr wOl take
care, that the tax shaO not be ao Ugh aa
to amount to an efiictoal prouwition, c^a*
sequently it becomes a lund ; and when
tiiey have got sudi a tax hod on, thqr en«
deavoiir to propante the luxuiY in order
to encrease the fond. Tbis, I am con-
vinced, win be the consequence of tiieBiH
now before us. The excesrive drinking of
gin ii become a luxury, cbiedy among tha
necessitous part of our people, and as it is
not only vicious in itself, but the father of
all other vkes, it ou^ to be prohibitod,
or at least restrained by such a tax as
wouUnoumtoapieUbilMB. laHoM
unri
16 0EDK6B IL
tf tUi, fon «ra to hy tach a nnall tax,
thai it will not be in the least fidt hy
the oonaumeF, and to make that a tax
for brinffing in a considerable revenue to
the pubuc. Can you, after this, expect
that miniaterty or their under agents, wiil
take any method for repressing the vice or
the luxurv? Will th^ not give secret
orders to their tools the justices, to connive
i^t this sort of wickedness ? And the re-
tailers wiU certainly propagate it to the
utmost of their power. Therrfore, when
this project was first formed, I must sup-
pose, that half a dozen ministers having
assembled and laid their wise heads toge-
ther, they resolved, that the people of this
aalion should be drunk for one twdve-
jnonth at least, not only .to raise a sum of
mtmey tar their dark purposes, but to nre-
ytmt the people's being sensible of Uieir
aniaery, or of the heavy burdens intended
to be laid upon them and their posterity.
My lords, if a certain period were to be
put to this drunken fit at the end of one
twelveasonth, . it would give me much less
coaeem.; but our ministers will find such
a sweet pemiy arising from it, that they
will never voluntarilv part with the deli-
cious morsel ; and therefore, I am afiraid,
this drunken fit will continue, till at last
we have no money to purchase even gin
kself. Such a consequence, which, I
t)iink, is certain, would put an end to this,
and, indeed, to every other revenue ; and
as I have some regard for succeeding mi-
Vii^ters, which few present ministers ever
had, I must be agamst a Bill, which must
necessarily bring them into such lamenta-
ble circumstances ; for a minister without
anv public revenue to support either him-
aeuor his measures^ wpuldin this country,
I fear, make but a .very sorry figure, un-
less he were possessed of greater abilities,
and more virtue than any modem minister
can pretend to*
Lord Carteret .•
My lords; as the argument has al-
ready been set in its true light by a noble
lord who has yet received no proper an-
awer, I need say but very little upon the
subject.. The case is truly this: that
vicious habit of drinking spirituous liquors
to excess, has taken sucm deep root amoi^
the vulgar and poor sort of people, that it
has been found impossible to put a stop to
it all at once. In this way we have al-
ready tried two experiments, and both
have by experience been found to beinef-
lectuaL By the act of the second of his
Deb^mtk^L^rii {Jj/H
present vaMvaAv, we put a Aop alstsaes
to the retail or all compound spirilB,iihick
we thought would put a stop to the ss*-
cessive drinking of any cheap spirit, h*
cause, without con^oundii^ it wasiaipoii^
sible to make it agreeable to the pMc
What was the cansequeoce? A cha-
destine retail of compound spirits wasiet
up at every comer, and thbse who cosU
not get sucn spirits in this daadeitioe w^,
rather than not get dmnk with any sort «f
K>irit, got drunk as frequently as erer viib
tnat njuiseous, or, at l^»t, nnplesisot axt
of spirit, which, ia derision off thesntho-
rity of the legislature, thejr called Fbriis*.
^ment Brandy* Well, this law beii^ibaBA
ineffectual, it was repealed in a fev yeas
afler it was made ; and in the ninth sf lis
majesty we resolved to try another esp^
riment of the same kind. As the finaef .
law had been evaded, by retaiUiK tUi
sort of liquor called Parliament Branc^^ we
resolved the next should not be lisUsts
any such evasion ; and therefore we Us
prohibition, or duties equal to a p«»*
nibition, upon the retail of aay tf^
tuous liquors whatsoever. Thislsw,itii
true, could not be evaded as tfaefiHaer
had been ; but did it put any st(» totlis
evil complained of? No, mv lorai|iiatt
the populace saw they could not eiais
the law, they openly and avowedly tia»
greased it; and the transgressora wen lo
numerous, that they even set the goisoK
ment itself at defiance. No prirate am,
no under officer durst inform, no amgittals
durst punish, without being in dsBgwsl
being JDe Witted by the mob, aahe|aHi
along the streets.
In short, my lords, it was imponUels
execute this law but by a mihtaiylra^
and this I shall never tie for upon ^ofm^
count whatever. I hope, thelawmd*
ways be able to execute itself, withopt ifei
assistance of the military power; aodir
this purpose, the legislature ought toe»
trive such laws as may be executed bf As
civil power alone; for if ever the smu
ance of the military diould becixne aeeei*
sary for the execution oC our Iswsiaei^
leral, they will not Igpg
the direction of the civil magiatrats: tkf
> will become directors instead of beat,
directed, and may, probably, veiysMB
after, usurp the leginative, aa wall aiAs
executive power of oar govemaies^ vUcb
would put an end to our oautitsAi^
Therefm*e, when I argue for theMaas
before us, I thinks I am atguiagftsAi
preservation of our coastiMieot ss «4 «
»]
Ml tkiStAHkuuMfms BiiL
A. D. 1743.
C12S9
^the- praiewtttion of- Atf pflvpfe ; for if
oottteoiptto ezeeiHe tfaeJawat itnoiir
tiodfl^ 70a will endanger yowt camdta*
ion ; if yea do not execute it, nor tub-
litute aiiv other remedy in its itead, die
eople will destroy theniselres by the ex-
esure use of apintuousliquon, which has
icreased vastly within these kst two or
Ime yeais, as your lordships may see by
bs increased produce of the small duties
fe now have upon those liquors.
II .WS9 with tne utmost regret; my lords,
hs| I observed the produce of those du-
ietf increasing sirery year» almost ever
iaoe Ae law was made ; but let that pro-
lam be now whet it will, it is a mistake to
wf it belongs to the Sinking Fund. It be*
Mgs to no fun<jl, nor was ever designed
}f parliament to belmig to any ; for the
Isngn of parliament was to put an en«
tie stop to the consumption, and con-
equentiy to annihilate the whde of this
iroduoe ; but experience soon convinced
n, that the putting of an entire stop to
he consumption was imoossible : the j^ee^
lie will indulge themselves in this vicious
labit ; and since there is no preventins it,
be ggvemment ought to avail themselves
»f it; but to avail themselves in such a
mmer as by degrees to put a stoi>, at
east to the excessive use of tnis pernicious
iqiior.
This is, my lords, what is desired by
ke Bill now before you* By loading the
ooimoditv with additional duties you will
lahanoetiie price; and at last you may
lahaace it so as to put it out of the power
if the inferior or lowest rank <^ people to
Hirchase so much at a time as will in-
asicate ^m ; but even this is not to be
IsDS all at once, for as great numbers of
isople have of late years got into a method
if retailing those spirituous liquors in a
landesttne manner, if you should lay a
ufb duty at first, most of them would
iSntinue in the same way, and the clan-
Isstine retailen would be so numerous,
fldso much patronized by the inob, that
i woidd be as difficult to execute the new
ftw, as it is now found to execute the old*
?or this season, the most proper way, in
qr opinieii,.is to begin with laying a sinall
iuty upon the stilUhead, and another
laall duty, upon licence^. By this means
^ou will put an end to the clandestine re-
ail; for qpirttoous liquors will be retailed
^jpealy and fairly at so many places, and
It so cheap arate, that thecbndesdne re-
^rs will meet with no encouragement,
M mmu the few that continqe the trade,
the law niy be easily and safety put inr
cotecutieD* Those that have licences will
of course become informers ansinsttiiem,
and when the mob find that Uiey are not
debarred the use of those liquors in a fair
way of trade, they will probably declai;e
against all unfair traders. Thus, I hope,,
in a year or two there will not be so much
as one chmdestine retailer in the kingdom;
and then you may advance the duty by
degrees, till you raise it so high as to pro-
duce the desired effect; for after tliose
that are now engaged in the dandestine
trade have entirely left it off, it will neither
be eesy nor safe for them to resume it, and
it will be still more difficult for one who
never knew any thing of the trade to begin
to carry it on.
As for those terrible thmgs called gin-.
shops, which we have been sq much
frigntened with in this debate, I shall ad-
mit, they were formerly, and, if they were
to be suffered, would again, I believe, be
found to be insufierable nuisances; but,
my^ lords, I am surprised to hear them
mentioned upon this ocouion, when there-
is such an express clause in the Bill for
preventmg its being possible to keep any
such shop. By the Bill it is expressly
provided, that no licence shall be aranted,
except to such persons only w^o shall
keep taverns, victualling-houses, inns,
co&e*houses or ale-houses ; and as none
of these houses can be set up or kept with-
out a licence fcom the justices o£ the peace
or from the wine-licence-office, which li-
cence they may refuse to grant or to con-
tinue, it will be easy to prevent any of
them from settm^ up a public gin-shop,
by taking their licence from them, or re*
fusing to renew it at the end of the year,
if they diould attempt tp make so bad an
use of it.
We have been told, that this Bill is a
taxation upon vice, and' consequently
granting an indulgence ibr committing it,
to all those that can pay for it. My lords, -
it is no such thing : it is only layina a tax
upon a commodity, which, like all other
commodities, may be made a bad use of.
I hope, no man will say, there is any vice
in drinking a single dram even of gin it-
self, especially when nature, or the danm-
nesB of our climate, requires it, and tne
person who wants it can affi>rd to pur-
chase no better liquor. The vice consists
in the immoderate use of it, and have not
you laws for punishing tippling and drunk*
enness, let it be m what liquor it willf
Are any of those laws to be repealed by
1227J
16 GEORGS U.
this Bill? Ob dM ooBlnrf , a
tion is to be mrie igaiait tippHDg^aad
dnukataMr; §Oft no man am *
get dnink, unlen tome Mnon
' thitBiHefv
ten the li(
M to be piobibited Ifrom admioiitmng Ae
liquor, except raek at h«?e liceaeea;
and every man that has a liomioe niHt of
course be coatiaually oader the eye of the
civil magistrate, who may, nd, I hope,
will take his licence from him, if he en-
cooni|;eB or permits tifipliD^ or drankm*
nesB m his house. This Bill, therefore,
u so far from being an indulgence lor vice,
that it is, in my opinion, one of tfie most
dfectoid r^^ulatimis that can be contrived
ibr oreventm^ it ; and if majpstrsles will
be oeficient m their duty, it is not the
fault of the law, but the fault of the ma*
gistrate ; for no law can signify any thing,
miless care be taken to put it duly in exe*
cution, if possible: and no imposnbiHty, I
hope, will be ibond, in puttmg Uiiaiaw
stncdy in execution.
But it is said, that as the duties upon
apiritoous liquors are to be made a fund
for bringins; money into the king's exche^
duer, the king's ministers will encourage
the consumption, and even the eitcessive
use of them, and will ^ve their instructkms
to their tools, the jusuces of peace, for that
effect My lords, I do not know, that the
justices of peace are the tools of mmisters :
some of diem may, perhaps, be so ; but as
the noblemen, and all the chief gentlemen
in every county, are '^nerslly in the com«^
mission of the peace, if they would attend,
it would be easy for them to prevent its
bemg in the power of those justices, that
may De tools of ministers, either to neglect
executing the law, or to execute it in any
wrong manner ; and therefore, i£ this Bin
should be passed into a law, I hope, your
lordships, and the gentlemen of the other
House, who are, as most of them, I be-
lieve^ are, in the commission of the peace,
wOl take care to see the law duly executed,
and not leave it en tirely to be executed by
audi justices, as ma;^ be suspected €i sub*
mittii^ to receive durections from any ad*
idst^r of state. *
Upon, the whole, my lords, I can see no
harm this BBIinll do: I thinkit wHldoa
mat deal of good; and if the reverend
Mnch viewed it in the Ufiht I do, I am
snre, they would concur heartily in the
measmre ; because, I thiok, it is a step to*
wirAl. putting an end to thit evil which
they so pathetically and so justly complam
e( and as large a step as youcanprodeatly
omkaal-iMtf ikr bfjmlaagtoo pm%
lomg^jmk ahmya gava die ensmy sb td-
vantage aver yoQ : the duty now proptarf
nngrpeiluqps be tso small ; bntitwookibe
dai^gMos t6 linr a higher at onoe, for tke
rasson I have atteaJ^asrigacA Yoanar
by degrees nuse it fai|^wr, sceording to
the humour j^n ind the peerie m ; for a
a free country we nnsit consult the huaoBT
of die people, if we have a mind to inie
our laws pot in execution; and there k
nothbg den^ates more from the digmtr
and aimority of the legishitore, tfasn to
see the laws they make tramjded opoobf
the populaoe» We haw twice slnsdf
found this to be the efcct, with legsrd to
the lasrs w« haveinadeaffahist the retailing
of gin : do not let us ftU a third tiaie did
the same error, by laying too high a doCf It
first. This, I am convinced, will aotbe
the case with regard to the daty nov pro-
posed; and I fattvethemoieTeasoiitobe
convinced of it, because the other Hook,
who are the best judges of the hnmoarof
the people, seem to be of theasme spbkn;
thm«fbre, I diall be not only for ttie pre-
sent motion, but for passing the Bill vitk-
ottt any amendment, because I should be
sorry to see such a good Bii tfarovn out,
upon a punctilio of privilege between the
two Houses.
Lord Lotudale .^
My lords ; I am sorry I hare tlie
misfortune to diftr so widely from ^
noble lord who sp<ike last, in my opoioB
concerning this ^m : he sq^a, it is a ctqp
towards preventing the excesBfe use a
sjMrituous Uquors, and, I thiak, it is s step
towards enoonn^ging the excennrs oie«
them; for if giving a licence to every nao
that pleases to opm a diop for die retsa rf
dioee penuoious llmon, at sadi s asall
du^aswiU not be m die least iUtbjr the
consumer, be not an enooaiagSBaeDt ibr
the oonsunqition, I do not knew wtoii'
We have had a doctrine lafeslybrosdied
in dus age» so frmtfid of new docfioaesi
That private vices arepoUie benefits; aod
as the consumption orginisfiem keoce*
iVirdi to bring m a oonsidemUe rsvesneto
the public^ I do not know but aonefiniN
ministw mtfp upon this piindpieiprap^
En pumic reward yiail^ in ^^
to the man, who, #idBa die p6oe*
ear, has been ofteneit Auosm
; forezccnt diSsi I can dunk rfn»*
ig dmt win tend more to Oe sneos*
mient of dns vio^ diand»Billoo^
ymu It wffl not eaiy pw ^
gtf ] <m iii Spbikum Ufttor^
gopieiM 90fm to tbit U«^n but it wiH
et ui>, 1 do not know^ how mmj thouatod
Isviby whate inttre^ and butinoes it will
le to tempt tbem to ft debauch; forfiAthe
IJltiBeit wd retfuletv will probably take
be whole dqties upon tbemselveat thejr
rill sdl at a lees profit than fonnerly» and
rbat they euifer by the diminution of their
irolit8» they wi|l endeavour to make good
y the iacrease of the sale; therefore I
pust look upon evenr man that takes out
tJicenee, as a sort of de^il set up to tempt
wakJod to get drunk with gin, and the
urer character he is of, the more busy,
^ BMre dangerous devil he will be ; hl^
MM his cooversation and dealings will lie
postly among that sort of people, who are
iMt liable to commit frequent debauches
I the most pernicious of all pemicioui
BiU.
A. D. 1743.
fl2»
The noUe brd aays^ this evil wiU be
imnted by the danger every retailer will
eia of hsnrmg his Ueenee withdrawn^ if
t promoies or alloifa of tippling and
nnkeante in his housew My IcNrdsy ex*
erienoe will convinl^ them,. thai they
aie no occasion to apprehend such a
Mgen Did we ever hear of any vintner
r ale-house-keeper's licence bemg with*
JBWtt en accounft of his pnwioting tqppUng
rdrunkenncM at his house? On the con*
my, are not they allowed to set up every
Mtrivance they caO; think offer brmging
vtom, as they call it, to their housel
km not all the lews we have against
ppKng anddmnkennesa, and against those
mes whidhpreoiiote that vice among the
ilgar,meet egr^ieusiy neglected } And
IS icAson is verv evident: a4 we have
Igh duties upon all aortaefstfonff liquors,
b more ef them is consumed, the more
isaev eomeeinlo the hands of ministersi
ho have the naminf^ and cenaequently
la dhieelioi»of all ouf justices of peace, ot
fc least of aHauchaawiUnct? Forgentloy
ten of fottnne, who ase hidepen&al of
m- ministers, will not ant it they are
r, if they attempit any thing
e the good of their conntry» that happens
^he mconsistent with the ideira of n mi*
bter, they are sore to be outdated atthe
Muter sessions, where the voti^ of* a
itding justice is aa good as the vote of a
entlenian of the bestestata hi the county^
(would therefore be ridiculous in yoitf
■ddiips to pern this kmr^ in hopes that
le justices of peace would prevent- its
Bing made. a baa use of. Yoncanenter-
iianosnd) hopes: thewhofeworldknows
n cannot $ and conseqaei^yi.if yea do
pam it, every maj^ without doors will ^oo-'
dude, you have pass^ it with design t^
encourage the consumption of spirituous
liquors, in order to raise a new fund fof
the government's service.
Ifthis, my lords, be vour design, I axe
convinced, you will not be mistaken. The
ezcessiTe use of gin has hitherto beim
pretty much confic^ to the cities of Lon-
don and Westminster ; but by this Bill you
will send the vice into the country, and
spread it over the whole kingdom, whidh is
tearing the nation up by the roots; for the
country is oor chief nursery for all sorts of
laboripus people : it is the nursery even df
the great cities of LfOndon and Westminr
ster ; for from the difference betwixt Uie
duristeomgs and burials, we may judge,
what a vast supply of pecmle comes every
year from the country to tnose two cities^
mpit then must be the consequence of
briiB^nff our hopest country people into a
vicious habit, which not only prevents pror
crei^tion, but destroys the cnildren after
they apre bom, or renders them so feeble as
to be of no manner of service to their nar
tive coufitry ? Yet this will be the certain
^opsequenoe of the Bill i^m before yoi|;
for aa every ale*house keeper in the coun-
try must pay 20ff. for a licence to sell spi-
rituous lii^uors, it will pot him upon tlif
traide of gm-selling ; which otherwiaet per-
haps, w^d never have entered into hi$
h^; and as soon as the poor in his neigh-
bourhood have tasted ike cup, th^ will
very probably become 9s fona of {t, and
delMMch as much m it, as the poor now d^
in and about the cities of Lendoii and
Westmmster; for the cfaeapneM of the
liquor will be a very atrong reoommendw*
tion, in the country as well $0 in lA>ndno«
It is this, my iprds, it is the cheiypn^
of the liquor that makes it so muck covet-
ed by the poor in every dace where they
can come at it; and it is tnis that makes so
many of Aem habituate themselves to the
excessive use of it ; therefore if your lordr
sfaip9 have really a mind to prevent thg
poor^s making an excessive use of it, th#
method is puun and easy. A high duty
upon the still-head wiD dothiseSBctuallyj
and tins duty may, it oug^t to be laid on,
all a^once. The noble lord's argument
agamst your domg so, wai a sood ar^-
mem agitinstyoor laymg at first a high
duty upon licences, but it was no asgu*
ment against laymg 1^ fiiM^ a high Mf
upon Ae still-head. A bi^ duty .upon
licences may, indeed, occasion the oour
of the. danddtine isetail; bit a
■4
1231]
16 GEORGE II.
high duty' upon the atiH^head cannot, be-
cause the retailer must pay that duty, let
him retail in never so clandestine a man-
ner. If it be once paid by the distiller, it
must be paid again to him by the clandes-
tine as well as by the licensed retailer.
There can therefore no reason be given,
for, I am sure, the true reason win not be
avowed: I say, there can be no reason
given for not laying a high duty at once
upon the still-head^ unless it could be said,
that this would occasion a clandestine
distilling, which ever^ one that knows
any thing of the distilling trade, must
know to be impossible; for even a little
concealment is much more difficult in the
distilling, than in the brewing business;
«ind I never yet heard any complaints made
of frauds or concealments in the brewing
business.
Thus your lordsh^ may see, that by
this W\ you are gomg to do the direct
contrary of what you ought to do : you
are ^oing to lay at once as high aduty as,
I think, can be proposed to he laid upon
licences ; and you are gomg to lay such a
•mall duty upon the still-head, as, I am
aure^ will not be in the least felt by the
icoDsumer. Can any one mistake the
meaning of this heterodox way of proceed-
ing i My lords, the meaning is plain : it
is nochine but a money job, and a jc^ to
be carried on at the expence of the healdi,
the morids, and the quiet of the people.
This is the true reason for laying sucn a
small duty upon the still-head, and such
a high duty all at once upon licences,
whidi will certainly encourage a smug-
ffltng retail, almost next to a prohibition.
If ahi^ duty had been laid upon the stfll-
head, it would not only have diminished
the consumption, but it would have ren-
dered it not worth the while of any ale-
house keeper, who had none but low peo-
ple for his customers, to take out a licence,
•o thult it would have both ways diminished
the expected revenue ; but by laying such
a small duty upon the still-head, as cannot
in the least diminish the consumption, bat
rather increase it, you will make it worth
the while of every ale-house keeper in the
kingdom, to take out a licence, so dial
both ways you will increase the revenue.
To consider this Bill therefore as a money
job, I cannot but applaud the ingenuity
of the projectors ; bat I cannot bear to
beiur h imposed upon this House as a Bill
deskned to put a stop to the consumption,
or the excessive use of gin.
I do net know bow your lordsbipi asay
Debate in ^ Lords [ISSi
take it, but it really raises my indittiistiga
to find such a barenced attempt omde upoe
your understandings : I am sore, evtrr
one of your lordahins that riewa this Bill
in the light I do, will look upon tlie argu-
ments made use of in its fiivour with eqisa^
indignation; and I am persuaded, tk
noble lords who have appeared as ad^o-
cates for this Bill, have, by their noo-
attention, been imposed on, otherwise
they would not have made use of such
arguments. We know by whona the Bill
was introduced ; by whom it was patro-
nised m the other House ; and tiiis ought
to b^ an additional argument for convinc-
ing OS, that it is solely a job Ibr raisiiig
money. If we consider it in this light, let
us see, my lords, what prospect we csa
have of ever beingable to piit a stop to
the growing evil of gin-drinking, by in-
creasmg the duty by degrocs, as the
noble lord who spoke last has suggested
we may do. Upon this head, my lords, let
us consider, tiiat we are but one of the
three branches of our legislature, and thst
a Bill for laying a duty or an additioosi
duty, upon any conaun^ition, can never
take its rise in this House. How thai
can we promise oursdvss, that if we pass
this Bill, we shaU ever have it in our power
to increase the duty by aay fatoie BtO>
Future ministers will I am afraid, be as
unwilling to do any thing tiiat may dimi-
nish the puUic revenue as the pseaetst, or
any past have been ; and from tne Ren^
and Place Bills that have been sent up to
us from the other House, vrenaust suppose,
that ministers are suspected of havmg too
great an influence in that House: oan we
then suppose, that aay Bifl, for iaciesMug
the duty upon home-made spoita, and
diereby dinunishing the revenue, win ever
be sent up to us frwn the other House, as
long as ministers have a prsmding inflo-
ence there > Can we suppose^ that snch
a Bil would reoehre the royal assent, as
long as ministers have a greater influeiiee
upon the councils of our sovereign, than the
jomt advice of both his Houses of Fsiiia*
ment ? For this reason, I shall kMik upon
this Bin, when passed, as a law for estab-
lishme drunkenness, whidi is never to he
repeated; andif I should coontenanoe it
iu the least, I diouU look upon myself as
accessary to the murder of eviny infimt
that mar hereafter be overlaid orpoisoned
by tile draakemieBS of the motlier.
By consenting to this BiD, we shall put
it out of our power ever to apply avemedy
tothegrowmgevP; but if we ceAiae oar
Itisj
en the l^mUuotu Lifmrs BilL
A.D. 1143.
[ltS4
MMieDt^ or if we amend tke BU1» by kqr-
iog a high duty u{)on the stiU»head, ve
nay putaa immediate atep to this evil; for
the other Houae will therebr see what we
inteodit which will prevail with some of them
to move for a new Bill» and our miniaterBy
iiot being yet in the pomaaion of die reve-
piMy nor in hopes of being able to posaeas
thennelvea of it^ will reraily cbnftent to a
BQ], which muat neceaaarily produce a
peat deal of public good, without dimi-
liiiung b the leaat any revenue they are
BOW' poasesaed of. But if you once give
ibem poastssion ; if vou once let them
Hste the aweeta of auch a considerable re-
reDve, aa will, I fear, arise from this grow-
aa evil, I shall deapatr of our being ever
1^ topntastop to it; and that it has
keea a growing evil, especially of Ibte
^8, is maniiest both from experience,
lad from the increase of the produce of
iie du^. My lords, aa our diatillery has
leen subject to a duty ever since it began
(0 be conaiderable, I have been at the
^ains to examine the accounta yearly, be-
cause ftem them we may aee pretty ex-
Ktly how much haa i>een conaumed an-
mauy, and how the consumption has gra-
InaUy increased* In the year 1684, aa ap-
pears from these accounta, there were' biit
lOO^OOO gallona of home-made spirits con-
Rimed in thiJB kingdom : in the year 1694,
^ were 1,100>000 ^lona eonsumed ;
fad thus the consumption increased gra-
tnally every ten years, so that in 1734,
httewere 4,500,000 ^lons consumed;
lot since that time the increase has been
auch greater than it ever was in any for-
aer period^ for the consumption is now
jbove 7,000,000 of gallons yearly ; and if
ioD spread the practice into the country,
a you will certamly do by this Bill, God
aiows what it may arise to; for most of
k poor, I believe, in a little time will
^ink nothmg eke beside water ; because
|iey find they have more comfort, as they
all it, from a half-penny worth of gin,
kan from a pint or strong beer, which
sosts them dince as much, by reason of
be heavy excise it is subject to*
This, my lords, is the true cause of the
^raat consumption of gin among the poorer
in of people.: we have loaded our malt
R{uors with so many excises, that the
wor are not able to purchase such as have
ay strength or spirits in them, and this
aaket them have recourse to gin, when
hey find their roirits wasted by labour
nd fiitigue. In lormer times, a poor man
■ould Imve a pot of mucb better stroiur
[VOL.Xn.]
beer for twoi|>enoe than be can have now
for tfaree-^ce : he could have half a pint
of itfora half-penny,aiid frons that half pint
he found a nfesh flow of spirits ; but he
must now pay three fiirtliing^ for half apmt,
without finding any such efieot; diereJfoie
be has recourae to sin, bedause from a
baif-penny worth h^ &dsthat efl^ which
he expected in vaiat from three ftrthtap
wortii of atrong beer. Thus he is led m
to taste the liquor, and as the spirits get
this way soon evi^iorate, he in a snort tiaae
finds a call for another dram, by whveh he
comes to get a habit of dram^drinking,
and is often by company, and the agree-
ableness of the Uqitor, tem|ited to take too
great a dose.
I have no hopes, my lords, of seeing
our excises upon malt iiquora, or ihde^
any of our dutiea, diminished, much less
aboli^ed ; and therefore, I am afraid. We
shall never, or not at least in this age, be
able to cure the evil of dram-dri|iking, by
restoring our malt liquors to their former
goodness and cheapness* But aa beer is
much more wholesome than dratns: as
the latter is a mere cheat uponthe drinker,
by giving only a short and transient flush,
we ought to force our poor to return to
the use of malt liquors, by doing what we
can, since we cannot do what we ought.
We cannot lower the price of our sttonjg
beer, but we may raise the price of gin by
additional duties, and these oij^ht to be
such as will raise it to a higher price in
proportion than our strong beer; fbr if a
poor man could not have a moderate dram
of gin under a penny, he would r^er
chuse half a pint of strong beer, because
of the figirthine saved. ,
What additional duties may be proper
for producing this effect, I shall not pre-
tend, my lords, to determine, nor is it pro-
per, in the usual course, to consider of
It at present, iftucfa a consideration beins
E roper only for a committee ; but as, I
ope, this Bill will not go the length o£ a
committee, 1 shall just mention that, in
my opinion, we ought to raise the duty
upon the still-head to three shillings, or
at least half a crown, with some dilFerence
between spirits drawn from British and
those drawn from foreign materials, and
between spirits drawn from malt or com,
brewers wash or tilts, and those drawn
from any other kind of British materials.
By such a duty as this, the price of gin
would be raisedfsohigh, that people would
generally chuse a draught of strong'beer,
rather than a dram of gin, for recruiting
[4K3
1935] 16 GEORGE IL
their iptriU» when nature seemed to re*
quire it ; and the poor would setdom be
able to furnish moaey enough for com-
mitting a debauch. On the other hand,
as the duty upon home-made spiriti would
still be lower than those duties payable
upon brandy and rum, the former would
continue sold a good deal cheaper than
the latter, and consequently tnis duty
upon ^n would no way increase the con-
sumption either of brandy or rum. We
should still have lai^ quantities of home-
made spirits consumed, which would fur-
nish our farmers with a market for most
of their coarse or spoilt com ; and as the
duty would, as usual, be drawn back upon
exportation, it could no way prejuoice
our foreign commerce. Nay, this duty
would, 1 l)elieve, be as ben^cial to the
government, and for some years, that is,
till our present set of gin-tipplers be worn
out, it would be more bene^cial than what,
is now proposed ; for suppose the con-
sumption sliould be diminished, suppose
ihewhde late increase within ihese last
eight years should be annihilated, and that
the annual consumption should be again
reduced to four millions of gallons, this
wouUl bring in above 500,000^. a year,
which is more than can be proposed to be
made of the small duties, which are now
to be kiid on, even though the vice should
become more frequent and more general
than it is^ at present; but whatever may
be the consequeoce in this respect, surely
the public jeveoue is not to be put b com-
petition with the health, the morals, and
Che quiet of the people in ^neral. If
we do this, we may perhiqps increase the
public revenue for a tew years, but at last
we shall have little or no public revenue
lef^ either df this or any other kind.
For these reasons, I tliink, you can
neither in honour nor conscience agree to
have this Bill passed into a law as it stands
at present, and if it is to be thrown out,
the best way will be to throw it out upon
the second reading, that the other House
may htive the more time to consider how
to provide otherwise for the supply ; there-
fore I shall be against its being referred to
a committee.
The Bishop of Salisbury ••♦
My lords; I do not rise up be-
cause I think the arguments against thb
Bill stand in need of any farther illustra-
tion: they have already been set in so
DekOemHULordi
[1M6
* Dr. Thomas Sherlock.
dear and so stroi^ a lig^ by the noUe
lords who have spdce More nse in thk
debate, that if the BiD be passed into a
law, it is not reason but neceswty ths
must be looked on as the cause of it. But
I rise up, because I think religion deeply
concerned in the fete of this BiD : it s
the most unchristian Bill that was ever
thought of by any government; and there-
fore I think it incumbent upon me as a
christian bishop, to give my testimonj
against it in the most open and expres
manner I can. I am extremely aorry, m j
lonis, at being thus obliged to sive mj
negative to a Bill proposed as a nmd for
furnishing his majesty with a part of the
necessary supplies: no man can be man
ready than I shall always be to oomplT
with his majesty's demands in this rei^iect,
because, 1 am sure, his majesty will never
demand any greater supply than is neces-
sary for the public service ; but I caaaot
agree to furnish his majesty even with the
necessary supplies in such m way as I
think inconsistent both with re^gion and
morality; and I must think, it was very
unkind in the projectors of this Bill, ts
contrive such a scheme as should lay the
members of both Hquses under a neces-
sity of opposing his majesty's supply, or
of a^em^ to a Bill which they <xHild not
but m theur consciences condemn.
To pretend, m;^ lords, that m Supply-
Bill is a Bill designed for disoooragiDg
the consumption of that very commodity
by the duties upon which the supply a
to be raised, is such a juKle as cannot be
expected to pass upon the ludgment of
the weakest man in the kingdom* But it
is sdid, we are not to discourage the mo-
derate use, but the excessive use of this
liquor, and a double duty will bring in as
much from the moderate use, as tM sin-
gle duty did before from both. My \or6s,
the chief part of the consumptioa ci gia
consists in the excessive use^conaeqoentljy
if you destroy the excessive ase» evea
your double duty will bring in little or
nothing, whicb would render this Bill a
roost ridiculous sort of Supply-Bill. This
the projectors were aware of, therefore
they have taken care to make the addi-
tional duty so low, that it will not in the
least affect or diminish the excessive use ;
and in order to increase it, they are going
to set up 50,000 house-keepers in this
kingdom, whose chief business it will be
to promote the excessive use of this liquor
among all tlieir neighbours and acquaiot-
ance. I say SOfiOO^ for accocd^ to a9
2S7J
on the Spirituous Liqtiori BSL
be compaCationft I have heard of, that
rill be the least number of houses that
rHl take out licences for the retailing of
pirituous liquors : I am afraid, the num-
er will in a few years be much larger ;
yr by the Report of the justices of peace
9 the year 1756» the number of gm re*
lilers m Westminster, Holbom, the
rower, and Finsbury division, exclusive
f London and Southwark, was 7044, be-
ides 3909 ale-houses that did not then
ell spirituous liquors, and besides a great
lumber of persons who retailed gin pri-
ately in garrets, cellars, and back rooms,
T places not exposed to public view ; and
P the humour of ^n-drinkin^ and gin-
elling should prevail as much m the coun-
ry as it has lAtely done in London, we
Qust suppose, that the number of gin re-
ailers tn this kingdom, will in a few years
asgdj exceed 50,000, every one of whom
nil certainly promote as much as he
an the consumption, and even the exces-
We use of ^nJ
The proviso in this Bill, that no li-
cence for selling spirituous liquors shall
»e granted to any but taverns, victu-
illing^iouses, inns, coCPee-houses, or ale-
louses, will be of no manner of significa-
ion ; for every person that resolves to set
ip a gin*shop, will first purchase a licence
rom the justices of peace, as a coffee*
louse or ale*house,' and then of course
hey become entitled to the other licence.
loiow, my lords, that > if justices of
leace did their duty, they would be much
acre cautious Uian they are in grantine or
ontinuing licences; but they never did,
hey never wiU do their duty in this re-
peet. Do not we know, that they never
10 refuse a licence to any one that is
rilling and aUe to paj for it ? Are there
lot now many notorious vile houses li*
enaedas coffee-houses or ale-houses? Do
ot we know, that when such houses be-
ome a nuisance to the whole neishbour-
lood, it is with the utmost difficiuty that
he honest neighbours can prevail with the
ustices to take away the licence? Perhaps
be justices, by orders from above, may be
. liule more cautious than they have been
D this respect; and this caution may pro-
lably he continued till this law be nxed
ipoD us ; but as soon as this is done, they
nil ^ve themselves as full scope as ever;
tnd m all jJaces where the poor resort or
nhabit, I am persuaded, every sixth house
rill in a few years become a gin-shop,
rkich was our case in the year 17S6, as
ppean firom the report I lunre nentionedi
A; D. 1748. [1238
with this diflerence only, that they will
now put on the mask of a coffee-house or
ale-house, whereas formerly they appear-
ed opeoly as gin-shops, which, in my opi-
nion, is a dangerous unprovemenc^ ror by
this means a man may innocently step in to
drink a pint of beer, for quenching his
thirst, and when he finds himself unwarily
in a gin-shop, may be tempted to lay his
money out in sin, and may by company be
inticei to drink too much.
Considering, my lords, how mudi tho
Sractice of excessive drinking of spirituous
quors, especially that liquor called gin,
has increased since the last act for restrain-
ing it, 1 little expected such a law as this
to be proposed ; for that the practice has
encreasea is not only apparent from our
public accounts, but from what we may
observe daily in the streets. You caa
hardly pass along any street of this great
city, at any hour of the day, but you may
see some poor creatures mad drunk with .
this liquor, and committing outrages m the
street, or lying dead asleep upon bulks, or
at the doors m empty houses. It is true»
we have not now those public and open
scenes of wickedness and debauchery Uiat
appeared in every gin-shop before the
making of the law which you are now to
repeal ; but the trade is carried on, though
more privately, yet with as great excess
as ever; and the reason we do not feee
more objecu in streets, is because most of
them sleep out the dose in the private cor-
ner where they took it in. But you are
now to render the vice as open and bare-
fiiced as ever ; for if this Bill passes into a
law, I shall expect very soon to see ffin-
shops opened aeain in all our most puplic
streete, and alT those scenes repelled
which appeared so shocking in the year
1735. Some of your lordships may per-
haps imagine, that the additional duty
will raise the price of the liquor, and there-
by diminish tne abuse of it : but whi^ver
eflect this may have, will be more than
eounteibalanced by the licence >to sell it
openly, and the numbers that will be en*
deavourin^ to undenell one another ; for
no man wiH sell at so small a profit whea
he runs a great risk, as he wUldo when he
runs none; and every one knows, that
where there are great numbers of sellers,
the price of the commodity ^ey deal in
will always be less than when there are but
a few. I am therefore sbcerely of opinion,
that this liquor will hereafter be sold
cheaper than ever it was before, oonse*
quendy the excessive use of it will become
IfS9] 16 OEOROE II.
ni^ro frequent, and eveiy year mofe 'geg»*
nil; so that most of our poor lalxHirera
and mechanics will either murder them-
selyes by drii^dng this poii^onous liquor to
excess, or they will become riotous and
be piurdered by your soUUers, in pursuance
of the riot act; therefore, if this Bill be
passed into a law, I hqie, some of your
lordships will rise up and more for a re-
peal ot the riot act ; for I Should think it
yery hard to intice poor people to become
rio&us, by proyolong. Uiem to drink gin,
and then to murder them because tliey are
riotous ; I say, my lords, provoking them
to drink gin» because I snail look upon
every licensed retailer^ as a deputy uxMier
the govemmeat» set up to provoke and
UiPppt the poor to get drunk with gin;
and as I must look upon them in this light,
I imoat as a friend to my country, and as
a member of the christian church, give my
consent to the settmg up of any such de-
puties.
The Earl of //by.*
My lords; as we are not now iii a
opmmittee upon the Bill, it is a little irre*
ffular to take any notice of the additional
Ojyit^ proposed to be laid on home-made
spirils, or to consider whether it be too
high or too low ; but as other lords have
siven their thoughts upon this subject, I
hope, I shall be excused, if I trouble you
likewise with mine; and I must say, my
lords, that if we were at full liberty to set-
tle the quantum. of the duty, without en-
dangering the loss of the Bill, I should be
CKtremelv eas^ as to the quantum of the
duty to be laid on. This, I say, shoidd
hfi my way of thinking, if we were. at full
liberty; . but whatever foundation the
other House may have for their pretence,
your lordships ail know, that they have fbr
some years insisted upon our having no
power to amend a money Bill; conse-
quently, if we should make any alteration
with respect to the duty, it would certain-
% occasion the loss of the Bill, and there-
by a great part of the supplies granted for
loe current service must remain unpro-
Tided for, till some new B31 could be pre-
pared, brought in and passed, which could
OOC be done in less than sik weeks, perhaps
not in t6n*
« For God's sake ! jny lords, let us consider
Ae situation we stand in at present, let us
consider the situation Europe stands in at
present. As to ourselves, our' navigation
and oommeioe lie at stake in our war
-^ wnst S^ain. Ships of was must be fit*
DebaieiniieLardi [MM
ted up and pftmded for dfafeoding our
trade, and for «lefending our doninioas, as
well as for annoying the eoeaiy ; and as
the season of action approachea^ tbia must
require immediate disbursemevta* Thai
as to the situation of Elurope, its liberties
are confessedly in the utmost^ the moat hn-
minent danger, by the war now eunryiqg
on in Germany : nis au^esty diust be, we
know be is, engaged in the moat impotb
tant negocilitions for averting this danger,
whkh negociatiotaa require not only an im-
mediate elipenoe, but the very fitfe of
them may depend upon hia mijeifc^a
having a plenfcinil supply of maoej^ whch
he cannot have till webave pwmded for,
^ well as granted the supply. How
would it sound in a foreign ear. to hesr^
that at such a crisis the two Houses of
the Pariiament of Great Britain had foOen
into a dispute about gin, and thai the s£»
fairs of Europe, nay our own afima, matt
stand in suspence, till these twe Houses
have settled this most important dilute!
Do not your lordships aee that, basides
the danger attendina any dday^ iba caoK
of die delay would occasion our being
laughed at and ridiculed in eveiT court,
in every country in Europe ; and I do not
think toe dispute, as to the quantnm of
this duty, of such importance, tliat rather
than not have it settled to our mind we
should run the risk of being laughed at,
andmuch less that we should upon that
account emose our navigaCioi^ our com-
merce, and our dominions to be inanUad
by the Spaniards, and the libeitiea of Eu-
rope to beswallowed up by the FkandL
The affiur is not, my lords, of this im-
portance, even suppose we wesa by this
Bill to put it out ot our power ever to raise
the dul^ higher; but this, my Idrda, is iar
from being the case. Qur Bunisaan may
perhaps Imve some influence in tbe other
House, in questions of a disputaMe nature,
and it is reasonable they should; bat their
influence (ihere would appear to be ve^
inconsiderable, if they should attempt to
push a question there niatplainhr appeared
to be inconsistent with the public good;
and therefore, if by* experience it diould
be found, that this Bill, by the amaUness of
the duty, gave encouragement to the ex-
cessive use of spirituous liquors, the other
House would certainly bring in and pass a
Bill for a new additional d\itj ; and, I hope
your lokdships will always nanre some m-
fluence Uiere, especially when you hare
reason en your side ; so that, thoosh such
a Bill cannot properiy be brought mat iota
«1]
on the Sj^rHwna Liquors BUL
A. D* 174S.
[I9«l
lMHoise» yet foy yoar infinence it mislit
II bro«fte in iaod passed through the ot£er.
iiaiiae.. Naj^ ^ th& exceBsiTe use of bu*
j|d»u» liqBoni should aopoftr to be ui«
gvisequeace ef this Rm^ the miniateni
kHbaelfes would, for their own interest,
plltotkis»f and nrobably bring in a Bill for
ia ad^ftional ouUr, became they would
«M maeh nore by a dimmution in the
Mfanr brancbea of the puUic revenue, oc-
Anened by the excessive use of spirituous
iium, fthftn they could get by an increase
iC the refmiie arising from die duties on
Use H(iii»i». .
niere i» tberefiore, my lords, not the
Itart danger of our being under any id-
a&ty to heap new duties upon these lu
Mm, if by experience we find, Aat the
Igkies. and reflations now proposed are
a^eftctnal lor preventing die excesnve
use of them among the poor ; but in all our
(atine.ceh8aItations upon this head, I hope
Miiitthapre a regard to the British distil-
<«yb I am sure, your lordships would
(ckuse lo have our people consume bur
fivne-made apirits radiier tHah those of any
fiiragpi manufacture; and therefore #e
must take care not to raise the duties so
hif^ as to make room for the latter. As
img as bur home-made spirits are retailed
a good deal cheaper than foreign, frugal
p^ple will prefer them because of Uie
mat difierence in the price ; but if by
Mpiog duties upon the rormer, you shoiild
jonke the price near equal to that of the
latt^ even the frugal part of mankind
[ifodd prefer the latter, because the dif<-
ftience in the price is more than atoned
for by die difference in the goodness of the
I^nor. For this reason, I think, it is the
i^ast prudent way to proceed by degrees
ia raising the duties upon home-made spi-
rits; because as soon as by raising the au-
ties you have put a stop to the excessive
Am among the poor, every farthing addi-
tlbn after or above that, is an unnecessary
burden upon your own distillery, an en-
Gooragement to the consumptiott dT foreign
soirits, and conseqUendy a double loss to
the nation.
/ This, iay lords, is mv reason for not ky-
uigatfirsta higher amiitional duty thab
18 now proposed : let us try what this will
do ; and if it faaanot the deshred effect, we
MU'in a year or two be the bietter aMe to
jadge what wiUr But I must observe, that
the veasoning of the noble lords wbn^ l^alre
spoke aoaiost this BHl, seenfs to be a Httl&
iacoi^ent. Some have argued, that the
fill will produce mull fatsd consequences,
sudi nurameiabla noischiieft, that it mutt
be altered or ifepealed ih a year or two,
and consequentiy the money to be bor«
rowed upon this fund win become a mort*
gage upon die Sinking Fund, which thej
have represented as the greatest evil that
can bend us. Others again say, that it
w31 produce siidi a revenue, diat our ndn
msters will ae^er part with it| but wiS
rather suffer all the evila it may produce
to contiilue, and diat consequently we
idiall never be abie to alter or repeal it*
Surely, my lords, one of these two ways df
reasoning must be wrong : in my opinion,
they are both wrong : we may herea/^r
aher die BUI : we may mse the duties
upon the still-head as high as we please,
without abolishing the iSky upon licences,
which is the only duty to be mortgaged,*
and will always, I beheve, be suQcient for
answering the sum which is to be borrowed
upon it. This method of reasoning is
therefore certainly wrong; -and I have al-
ready shewed, diat the other b equally so «
because, if die smtdlness of the duty novr
proposed, should encourage the e&cesrive
drinkiDg of spirituous liquors, it will be dii;
interest of our mmisters, as well as of
every other men in tlie nation, to alter thhi
Bill, or to bring ih a new Bill for increas*
ing the duty*
For these reasons, my lords, I shall be
for passing the Bill without any amend-
ment ; and there is one dimg that makes
me more strenuous for this than I should
otherwise be, which is the repeal contained
in this BUI. The law which is herebyHobe
repealed, was passed in a sort of a mad fit,'
and has been an affl'oni to pur gbVemment
ever since it was passed. Every man that
could foreisee any thing, foresaw, that it
wM such a law as could not be executed;
but as the poor had fun gin mad, the ridi
had' run anti-*gin mad, and in this fit of
madness, no one would give ear 'to reason*
As boon as the law was passed, thft govern-
ment saw, that it woula be dimgerous t^'
piit it in execution, and wei^ therefore
obliged to arm themselves, as if they had
becQ to engage a public enemy: sooil
after it was passed, it was found, that it oc^
casibned the frequency of a crime still
worse than getting drunk with gin, whlctt
was perjury ; and as the mob could n6t
distinguish between a true and a ftitee in^
former, they became equally liifbre to their
resentment, whi6h occasioned frequent
nots, and at last murders, so that the g6-
vernment was, at last, obliged tb drop en-
deslvi^uring to execute the iaar, and tbi
049]
16 GEORGE U.
Debate in ike Lord*
[1244
Qcfiflno0
nob have» ever since, drank gin in c
of the lew. What hei been the
qaence^mj lords? It has cmiaed among the
people 8udi a contempt of law, order, and
Sovemmentt as has tfrnad itaetf aniong all
egreee of men, and in ^y^ thing that
relates to public aflbirs. The people in
general are become so lioentious, that the
government is affironted daily, weekly, and
monthly, in print. It is become a sort of
trade to do so; and that author, that
scribbler, I should say, gets the most
mmiey, who dares approach nighest to se-
dition or treason, tne king, whose name
and character ought to be sacred, is ironi-
cally treated in the most scurrilous man-
ner : even the l<^j;i8lature itself is abused ;
and the populace pretend to dictate to us
in every thing: tney will not only^ have
triennial parliaments but annual mimsters ;
and the very dregs of the people pretend
|o be better judges of the mterest of the
nation, and the nature of our constitution,
than Uiose of the best estates and families
amongst us. This I take to be in some
measure owins to the impunity and success
the populace nave met with m transgress-
ing the late act asainst spirituous liquors,
which by this Bill is to be re|)ealed, and
therefore I shall be most heartily for hav-
ing this Bill passed into a law.
Feb. 24. The House went into a com*
mittee on the said Bill*
Lord Lonsdale stood up and said :
' '^y lords; as I have a very great
concern for the health and wdfare of the
labouring poor : as they are the chidf sup-
port, and therefore thetr preservation and
increase ought to be the chief care of the
magistrate and legislature of every society ;
I hive been at some pains, since the se-
cond readine of this Bill, to enquire into
the effects of gin-drinking among the la-
bouring poor of this kiogdom. For this
purpose 1 have conversed with some of the
few of bur parsons of parishes, that make
a.conscience of their auty, and think the
soul of a poor man or n^man as worthy of
their care as the soul of a rich one: I
have conversed with the overseers of the
poor in several of our out-parishes, and
even the parish nurses I have not neglect-
ed to examine. From all these I have
snch shocking accounts of the &tal efiects
of gin^drinking amongst the vulgar, that I
cannot think, your lordships have sufB-
ciently considered the consequences of
passing this Bill into a law, otherwise you
would not hare given it so mocii coun-
tenance as yottliave already done. If
your lordships were to sit in some madont
plain, and to have all the suferera by Ihii
abonynable vice brou^t before yon, it
would be such a shockmg si^, that ins-
inanity itself would make yonrriect a Bffi
which is to give a loose, nay a fioence to
a vice that inakes such havoc muong man-
kind* To see men enfeebled and con-
sumed, or rioting in all the most borrid
sorts of wickedness: to see women naked
and prostituted: to see childTen emaci-
ated, starved, or choakedr; and aO by the
use of this pernicious liquor called gin,
would surely make you reject with dismun
a BiU which is to set up, by public autho-
rity, 50 or 100,000 houses in this king-
dom, as traps for drawing the nnthinktiy
vulgar into the excessive use <tf this li-
quor.
To Ipad men into temptation is a cha-
racter, mv lords, and one of the wontdia-
racters otthe worst of beings* To pre-
vent our being led into ten^lation s a
petition which, by the greatest antbority,
we are taught to ^ut up to our grot
Creator : what then shall we say cCan as*
sembly of lawgivers, who gravely ait, and
advisedly enact a law for eatablishing, by
lAithority, a great nundier of house-
keepers, whose sole or diief busness is to
be, to tempt their fellow-creatures to be
giulty of one of the worst sort of crimes,
a crime which is productive of all other
sorts of crimes^ Uould sudi an aasemftdy
be supposed to consbt of Cbristiaiis?
Could it be supposed to consist of homsn
creatures? Would it not be suppoeed to
be an assembly of devils? What then shall
we say of ourselves, my lords ? What disil
we say of the Bill now under oar conside-
ration ? It is evidently a law aodh as I
have described; for when jon grant a
man a licence to sell gin, it becomeB of
course his interest, and conaequentfy wiO
be his business, unless he has more virtue
than those that granted him the licence,
to tempt and draw people in to the ezoei*
sive use of that liquor.
But we are told, the people will drink
gin : they will get drunk with ^;in ; and if
you do not allow them to dnnk it pub-
licly, and by authority, they will drink it
clandestinely and widioutauthori^. Mlky
then, say the advocates for this Bill, may
not the government avail itself of this vice,
and since the people will be vidona, mske
them pay for bdng vicious. Is this, my
lords, a way of arguing in a CluMsa
US]
«M the SfirituoMS Liquors BUI.
A. D. 1748.
[IMS
ioontqr? When we consider how destruc-
ive tb» vice is to the health, as well as
he morals of the people ; can we say it is
i way of arguing consistent with hmna-
lityr When we consider how this vice
enervates the soldier and the sailor, and
low it stupifies the mechanic and the ma-
itifacturor, can we say that this way of
irguing is consistent with our security,
>ar tnule, or our navigation ? Surely, the
Dore prone the people are to the vice, the
Dore rigid diomd toe laws he against it,
be more diligent the magistrate to put
hem in execution. It was not the seve-
ity of the late law that raised the indigna-
ion of the mob against it : it was the dis-
inction so plainly made by that law, be-
ween the poor and the rich. If a man
ras rich enough to buy two gallons at a
ime, he was by that law to have as much
e he pleased of any spirituous liquors
rfaatever, and at as cheap a rate as for-
oerly ; but if he was so poor as not to be
ible to purchase two gallons at a time, he
fras not, u{x>n the roost urgent necessity,
0 have a single dram of any sort of spiri-
uous liquors, or at any rate, unless some
ich person pave it him out of chari^. It
ras this invidious distinction between the
ich and the poor, that set the mob so
auch asainst the execution of that law,
nd maSe them more fond of dram-drink-
Dg than ever; because they then began
0 look upon it as an insult upon the rich,
rho had attempted to deprive them entire-
J of it, at the same time that they reserv-
d to themselves a free indulgmce.
For this reason, my lor£, I do not
Aow btit it would' be better to repeal that
iw than to leave it a standing law un-
zecuted, because the repeal might give a
urn to the inclinations of uie poor,
whereas, while it stands unexecuted, it
Limulates their inclinations, without re-
training their power. But if that law is
0 be repealed, I hope, your lordships will
^ink or some law in its stead, that may
e executed, and will put a stop to the
viL I hope, your lonlships will never
bink of this destructive vice as a fund for
sising money. That vermin of pro-
sctors who haunt the levees of ministers^
my think of such a fund, because they
ave no regard to any thing but the pro-
Kt they recommend ; and ministers are
ut too apt to give ear even to their most
idiculous projects, if they have but the
ppearance of bringing in a great deal of
lone V to the public treasury ; but, I hope,
our lordships will consider all the otner
consequences, and wiU never approve of a
project, let it have what appearance it wilt
of brin^g in money to tne public trea^
sury, if It be evident, that it must end in
the destruction of the laborious poor,
which is phuQly the case <^the Bill now
under our consideration ; for in the former
debate it was made appear, and, indeed;
from the nature of the thing it is apparent,
that die small additional duties proposed
by this Bill, will be all borne by the distiDer
and retaOer ; so that the poison itself will
be sold as cheap as ever it was before, and
the free access, which the poor are by this
Bill to have to it, wUl certainly encourage
the consumption.
For these reasons I must thmk, your
lordships have not fully considered the na-
ture or this Bill ; therefore I shall move;
that the House may be resumed ; and if
that is agreed to, I shall then move to put
off the committing it for a week, that in
the mean time you may have an oppor-
tunity to examine the justices of peace,
who will give you an account of what mul-
titudes of riots proceed from gin-shops ; tha
parsons of some dPour out-parishes, who
will tell you, that a deluge of immorality
and pronneness flows from ^ose recep-
tacles of drunkenness and lewdness; the
physicians and nurses of our hospitals, who
wiU inform vou, that a vast multitude of
diseases and accidents proceed from gin-
drinking ; the overseers of the poor, who
will tell you, what numbers or poor oh-
jectB are brought upon the parish by a too'
free use of these liquors ; and if any of the
gin-shop-keepers themselves are honest
enough, they will tell you, that when poor
creatures fall once into the liabitofgin*
drinking, they never leave it off as long as
they have a rag to wear, or a leg to crawl
on. And when your Iqrdships have had a
full account of all those djsmal conse-
quences, I am persuaded you will have too
much humanity to pass a Bill for encou-'
raging and authorizing this destructive
vice. Therefore, I shall now conclude
with moving, that ^e House may be re-
sumed.
The Earl of IZa^.-
My lords ; though the noble lord
has been pleased to move only for re-
suming the House, yet from what he has
said, you may perceive his intention to be
that ttie Bill should be rejected ; there-
fore I rise up to ^eak to your form and
usual method of proceeding, and, I believe*
there is no examjde of your rejecting a
X847J
16 Gnoses IL
Debaig m tie Lordi
[I»8
BiU IB the conmitteey after reading ike
fim or second clause oolj. If it be a BUI
your lordships think essentially wrongs
or auch a one as cannot be amended
ao as to svake it a useful Bill* you ra^
ject it npaD a second reading: if it be
a Bill which you think vmls be amended^
80 w to make it a good Bill, vea go
through it in the comitutteet ana if after
having there made all the amendments
you can, it appears still to be k defective
or inconvenient BiU^ you throw it out
upon the report, or upon the third read-
ing* For this reason, as the noble lord's
motion is contrary to that methcMi of pro*
ceeding which has been continually prac*
tisedbyyour lordships* I hope, you will
not agree to it ; for if you think the BiU
ought to be rejected, you ought to do it
directly: it is inconsistent wtUi the dig^*
nity of this Houte to take such an indirect
method of rejecting it ; and if it is to be
at last rejected,, the sooner you do it the
better, tkat the other House may the
aooner have an opportunity to provide
otherwise for the i^urrent service of the
tnsubg year.
The Earl of Ayletford :
Mj lords; as I have not lately
looked over your journals, and never di^
with a view to the question started by the
noble lord who spoke last, I am not so
much master of tlie tiling as to bring ^'oii
presently an example of your having,
aftier reading the first or &econd clause,
put off the committee upon a Bill ; but that
you may do so, and even that it may be
necessary for you to doso, is so agreeable to
reason, that I cannot doubt of tl^ere being
precedents for it; because, when you
come to consider every clause by itself,
which you never do, tiUtbe Bill coines be-
fore you in a committee, such difficulties
may occur, upon the first, or any other
dause^ in the Bill, or such facts may be
started and disputed, as m^ be impossible
to be solved or determmed without a fur-
ther consideration or enquiry. But if no
auch example or precedent should appear
upon your journals, it is no reason why you
should not now do what is in itself so ne-
' cessary and so agreeatde to reason.
This, my. lords, must be admitted with
regard to any Bill that can come before
yon, but with regard to such Bills as this
now before you, there is a stronger rea-
spn, which is, vour not having a power to
amend it without endangermg the loss
of the Bill; for if you Aink, you €»•
not a^ree to this or any other daose oc'
the Bdl without some amendment, «in
ahould you proceed any further ? Wli?
should yen give yourselves the trouble cf
amenditea B31, when you are moralli
certain that jf our amendments wiU ajgnitj
nodui^ i AnA if upon further considen-
tion. It should appear, that the smallness d
the duties pro|Medlo he added by thi«
clause, wiH rather increase than dimiai>^
the consumption of spirituous limftors, yoj
cannot in conscience agree to this claose
withoat an amendment; therefore this poiai
4Night to be detennined, before you give
yourselves the trouble of proceeding upoc
aav of the other ckiusee of the Bill ; and
tbs point yte cannot, I think, determme.
arithout having soase of the distillers and
retailers exaouned; for whidi reason I
shall be for my noble fiiend^ motion, that
you may have an opportunity to call sooie
of the most eminent diadSeiB and retsBen
to be examioedat your bar.
The Earl of i%:
My lords ; I am surprised to besr
any member of this august assembly mskc
uae of sudi an argument as to fey, tktt
we have not power la amend this Bill
Thu^, my lords, is a point which 1 doQ
never give up. We haVe a power to
amend this Bill, or any Bill that can comf
before us. The other House, I know, ha!-
of late contended, that we have no power
to amend a money BiH ; but thia we never
yet gave up. It is an incroacfament, or
rather an usurpation in the otber Hoose.
which is not as yet made a part of
our constitution, nor etabKshed by any
constitutionid authority. Thej have not
as yet been so hardy as to make any ex-
press order even of their own House
against it : they have only reaolved, not
to have a conference with ua about acr
such amendment, and even this is so late
as sbce the Revolution. But this thev
may avoid by a^reemg to our amend-
ments, asthe^r did in a late instance, Imesn
tile fiimous BiU for (Nreventing Bribeiy and
Corruption at Elections.
If your lordships therefore think it ne«
cessary to amend this dause, you ma^,
without any moral certainty of the Btfl
being thereby lost ; but as to the reason
fiven for its being necessary to amend it,
think, there is not the bast ground for
it. From ail fbitter experience we oaj
conclude, that the adifitional dutias now to
be imposed, ssaall as they are saki to be.
will jocreaie the piioe to the
1S49]
M the Spbrkuoui Liquors Bill.
A. D* 174S*
[1250
and consequently diminish the donnimp*
tioDy especially among the poor^ who are
■eldom able to pay for a debauch, even at
the present price. In all cases of new
duties imposed, we have generally found,
tiiat when the government laid a tax of
one penny upon the manufacturers or re-
tailers^ they laid a tax of two pence upon
the consumer; and will your lordships
examine witnesses against a fact establish-
ed by sach along course of experience? It
is impossible for you to believe any evi-
dence against a fact so established; there-
fore, t think, you have no occasion for
any farther consideration or examination
as to this point, nor, in my opinion, to any
other; and consequently there is no ne-
cessity for postponing the Bill, which, as
it is a Supply Bill, ought not, I am sure,
at this critical conjuncture, to be post-
ponedy without a very evident and urgent
necessity.
The Duke of Bedford :
My lords; the noble lord who
spoke last, certainly mistook the meaning
of my noble friend who spoke immediately
before him. He did not mean, that we
have no power to amend the Bill : 1 believe,
he will be as tenacious of that point as any
lord in this House ; he meant only that we
could not amend the Bill, without running
a risk of its being thereby lost ; and he
was, without all doubt, in Uie right. We
shall not only run a risk, but, in my opi-
nion, there is an absolute certainty of the
Bill being thereby lost; not only on ac-
count of your amending a money Bill, but
on account of yotir alterine entirely both
the nature and the intention of the Bill.
When the other House sent it up to your
lordships, they intended it as a Supply
Bill: as it stands now it is a Supply Bill,
and will, I foresee, bring in a very plenti-
ful supply, which is one of my diief rea-
sons for being against it, because this very
e&ct will, I am afraid, put it out of our
power ever hereafter to repeal or alter it,
or to remedy the evil so justly comfdamed
ofl But if yea amend this chiuse, as I
thmk it ought, and as all die lords who
^e spoke i^on the same side of the
question, seem to think it should ; if you
lay sudb a duty upon the still-head, and
upon licences, as will amount very near to
aprohibition, at least with respect to the
poor's committincT any debauch in these
uquors, the Bill wRl be no longer a Supply
Bui : it will be a restrainmg prohibitory
Bill; and will dimmish, instead of adding
t VOL. XII.]
rniy thing to the public levenue, at least
that revenue arismg from the duties iqpoa
home-made spirits.
After having thus explained, and, 1
hope, justified, what I tate to be my noble
friend's sentiments, I most dedsire, mv
lords, that I am for your going through
the Bill in a committee, and amending, if
you think necessary, every clause in the
Billy eipecially Uiat now under your con-
sideration, so as to make it, instead of s
Supply BiU, such a prohibitory and re*
straining Bill, as will put an effectual stop
to the national evil so lonff, so loudly, ana
with so much reason comj^ained of. This
I am for, my lords, not because I suppose
that, when yeu have so amended it, this
very Bill will be passed by the other
House, but because it will shew' the other
House, what sort of BiU your lordshipe
desire to have passed; and because the
laying of a hi^ duty upon the 8till-heod»
with a small duty upon, lieentes, and se>
vere penalties upon sellii^ without a U«
cence, is the only efiectual remedy for the
evil ; from whence, I hope, some public*
spirited gentleman of the other House will
be taught and encouraged, either this ses-
sion or the next, to move for and bring in
such a Bill. For this, whidi is a very suf-
ficient reason, I am for Toor going through
and amendii^ the Bill in a committee;
but as'there is no occasion for our being
in any ereat hurry, because from the fiite
of this day the other House will see, thtj
must not expect this as a Supply Bill, and
may consequently resolve immediately to
provide by some other uiethod for IhA
supply: I say, as we have not, for this
reason, any occasion to be pi a hurry, and
as I am convinced, the mo|R|^ you examine
into this matter, the more vou will be in-
clined to comply with wfcat I jj^ropoat^
therefore I shall be fyf resusMng the
House, and putting off tlie committee for
a week, that vou may bare an opportunity
to examine afi such petsons as have been
mentioned in this debate, and also sudi
odiers as mxy hereafter be thought qapa*
Ue of giving yois any information.
As to this, my lords, whatever the noble
lord who spoke last may think, I must be
of opinion, that it will be absolutely neces-
sary to examine some dfdie distillers and
retaOers, not only to know the effisct of
the small additioud duty now proposed^
but to determine iHiat acUitional du^ maT
be proper for puttme this liquor so mu«
out of the reach of the poor,as to prevent
their drinking it to exem% without doing
C4L3
ItSl] 16 OEOIGB II.
• gpeal^r. Mjiidioe thaa naceMiujr to ow
hme dutilkf y. And lure I miMt iiij* I
mm •urprisedy^that the noble leid who
ipoke mtf ismiA 9oi diftiogniah balir&en
the neoBMariet ittd tha liouriet ef lifie.
When jren bj angr t» nprn the JoiMer,
the manufiictt^rer or releil«r will oertainljr
k^ anolher tuc vpaa. the eoniuinery by
ttmog the price at lout to double m
duty ; but men yea lay any tax ufMn the
htter, both the maniifactuiev and retailer
will chusoi and vitt oeiiainly reao)Te to
ipil at ft ififli iirofitt beoausey the leaat
beii^teoiQg of the pnoe wodd certain^
diminish, and might nut an entiie alop to
the oonsumptiony which wonld» without
doubtt be the conaequenoe vrith ramect to
home-made tpirits, if they could be sold
no cbeapev tnan true Pcmich brandyt or
eU Jamaica lom. From whence your
leadahaps roust aee, how neeeta^ it is for
]rcNi to Wre the 4i^len aad retedera exa«*
mined upon thia ^Oooaaiony and therefore,'
I hope^ you wil) agree to the noUe lord's
BOatemikiLmU
[Itt
Lord Carteret :
My loads ; I have heard, I have
had a ahara iu many debates in this Houae,
and have often hmicd the subject of the
debate v^ much mistaken, or veiymudi
departed noro, but nerer meee than in
our pmaent dahate. The erils ansing
nrom the excessive use of S{drituous liquors,
fl|nd the prevalence of that vice at peesent,
have been fudmowledged by ever^ lord
who has spoke in &veur of this BilL
What occasion is there then for long de-
damationa against those evib, oragainst
jta being the prevailing vice amon^ the
poor of duB age ^ What oocasion have
we far a tedioua examination of a great
^eii4 of witnesses, to prqve facts which
are upon oil sides acknowledged to be
Irue, which weae in tbe oth^ Houae the
principal indu^ments for bringing in and
passing this BiU; and v^ich, oertainly,
ought to be prevailii^ motives with iia
for concurring with them ip ao.aalutary
e measure as « Bill now^ un^ oqr con*
aideration.
On both aides, my lordB, it has been
likewise acknowledged, that the kwa in
being aae not sufficient for putting a stop
to those evils, much 1^ for putting an
end to tl)em« Nay, it has beenacknowr
l^ed, that it is impossible to prevent
entnrely Ihe excessive use, and much less
the use of spirituqus liouofv ; and if either
intobedone^thenoUedule who spoke
last has •^■^^^^ thai a dntwaMn tk
atiU-b^, and pieventiiig thmr bwigMli
without » UoanoOf are the prop^ fPmok
tobetak«ifordiQJi|gitdUstiiaUy. Thtie
iHTO thp very raegioda prqMaed by dui
Bills but» aay ita oppoaen, die dwtiei pan
poaedmw not high eaoui^ : tbedMuan
and retaileia wiU bear m admie burdm
of the 4utiaa» oonae^iuentlf > the li^on wai
be aold to the conaunsar m cheep as era»
and the five acceaa thay apeby thia BiU ta
get to tbev, wiU iwawaae ipatead ef 4tiai-
niabingtbeaviL
My lorda> though the dutiea aiw not bj
thia Bill rawed ae high as they aftemmh
Buiyt and ou^ to be» yet I cannot gnot,
that the lioueia will coa^ as good and n
cheap to fne conaumers aa fonBoier)y» «
that the diatillera and r^tailera eitharwifl,
or can bear tl^e whole burden of 4ie duty.
The duty, it ia true» to apMaiaaoe, is hot
small, and must be thought so by jaw
lordships who have auch opulent fortujaa;
but if we conaider the price of the com-
modity, and the drcumataaeea of the por-
chaaeni» the duty muat be thought veiy
high. The duty is 6e/. a gallon, and ibt
commbdi^ is but ISd. or 2c. e gallon s^
inoat; and I cannot think, that a dutf
equal to one third or one fourth of tba
9)anuihcturer*s price, can pnmerly heisid
to be e small duty. As tne ditttilliog
trade has been a standing trade for manj
years, without any raatraint or moaopoljr,
we muat auppoae* they now sell ascneap
to the retailer as they can possibly aSctif
conaeqoently they muat aell dearer or ta$k&
their uquora worse. If they o^ake them
worse, the eonsumera will not puichasa
them at any rate, and therefore they most
sell them dEearer. Suppoae they addei*
actly the duty, and no more, to the poos
they formerly aold at s sixpence a gaUoe if
three forthiogs a pmt, supposii^ tbe le-
tailer should add notliing for reimbuisbg
what he pqrs for his licence, which is not
to be supposed : he will oertainly add at
least the other farthing; and a pennjr in^
pmf will be thought a very great adfitioo
tothe prioe^bya poor ereature that earss
i»ut Sd. or a groat a day, wjudi n die csm
of many apoor mamifoctmer iathii Idsg*
dom.
As to the access, my loxds, if dus BiU
be paaaed iBta a law, it will not he aesrss
free as it is at present ; for by theiaipos*
sihiUty of executing the law now in Iwgi
the liquor called gin is not only dsubs*
tinely hut openly sold at meie plaoes, I
^^^' — I, than ever it was before the to
miS]
M the Sphimmi lAqli^n
pMMA^ MOm, it ttOLy fim he hsidi
Aid Mil tli« {KMft k«Nsi# it idsy fefe hsd, itt
Nfte siMipy iifty St ^^dy oMie^ in
he 1diigA)ift» fre^inm^d by aiiy iiunftef
if ]>Mpte. Wlierai8| a* i(efoii te this ^
9 pilM^9 ttD the iUegfftl Tenders mnst gite
y^«r the trfld«l« hecatise the liccmted vtiSi
ake CUM le hoire theta preNseeuted, if they
to not; se tllat ereil g^nitsdf irill be to be
liad BO where but at the b«fttef iort of
sae-botlMs. This I taice to hi th6 princi-
pal i^dratttAge propeied to be got by thii
BUI : it wul take thb t^ade 6at of the
hand* bf tiiOBe, who, by being b^low, set
theiiuldveflabov^thehiw; bdcailse it will
furnish the government with a set of re-
putable persons, whose busfness it will be
to inform against^ and prosecute sach ille-
gal arid- Scandalous deders; whereas at
yiCBewt no man wiH be at the trouble to
ittfcMi, because there is nothteg to be got
by the nibnnation. Thus the Bill wil
bring €^ trade under som^ regvdationy by
commhig it to those, who have some creifit,
and Iftii oomfertably by thehr businiess.
Such pehMm wOi be afraid to admit of
fteat Aoses oi^ debauches, l^st it shoiild
Oicalifte their licence to be taken Ihmi
Yheu; for as flie jnsticcfs ofpea^ie have a
'p6iNT9 fftey ttay, atfd I hope, WiH With-
amw tiieir licence, as soon as they are in-
formed, that the person licensed makes a
bad use of it.
Having acknowledged, my lords, that
the duties itoW proposed are not so high
as they onght to be, I shaH endeavour to
accovtot fHt thisf defect My lords, this
Bill is aUd WaB at first designed but as aii
experinnent : you may encrease the duties
next session of parliament, if you dieh
thinft proper; but it was thought dsnge-
Tou^ t6 raise thetao^ very high all at once,
lest it ttight mbriS ebcastoned vi€ eobtt*
iiuance or the ffl^gd and chuftdeidne Way
i)f sdittg tfin, which is now so lhk|uent^
and lest the mtdiitude of pt^oilftcntftons
flkefwy Otitiaiietira, might have revived
tiMt spirit amon^ the populace, whtt ap**
peared so violent against ^ execution of
tfie hw BOW m behig; Ibr where the pro-
fits to be made by smuggliw aire very
considmible, many will run Ae iMc, let
the pezttutite be "xiffftx so se^di^, or nie
danger never so grrat, as appeal H at prd>
sent in I3le' cnt ififodf FrisAdl bnnMiifii^
and tto.- This, I tidnk, wttl aiirtident
caution at the be^iiining, but wBr itot be
se necessary in a year or two;: because
all those, who now live by the clandestine
iOtog dl /^irltaodr fi^uonf, iriB* in that
Bitt. • A. 0. m». [JdS4
tnBehiave'6Mi(<r taken otft lic6fr<^eif, ot* #iff
be got unto iotfie dther Wihr ^living,- mA
11^ iM be so «)p« to re-assttM6 (he trade,
as tfaev ^<^<ild no# ht to t^ntmab it.
Therefore as the duties cahnot, #fth tettf
prodence, be Mised higher ti first, we
naire at preient no ocofeibn to exaeifitit
distillers or Retailers, as td ^ height thejr
may be rttised to heretfler. ^
In short, my lords, ibis Bfll^ if ^^d
into a law, Will eertainly, vti ihy tfpMoh,
have some efibct as to the ^estMhlng of
the vice complained of; and it is att^ndi^
with this iidvsihtage, that it j^iMs yon JAfO
a way, by wMch yoiu may, by degrees*, tt*
strain if as nmdi as it can be by any
human law or powelf' ; bctt this h not t6 bd
done all aft once, tak cKh it, I ftan ifraid;
be eve^ don^ altoaether. Some peMrM
wOi feBoNv iheir in^inatiOM, thbVigh mj^
know death to be the cariifhi c<ynsequenc^.
I have hesn^ cC a ^^tf^ncMb, #ho beni^
dangeraieteiy ii of a dr6^, #eM f<fr A pllh^
sician. Wheh the pfystdaA ctate, m
found th6 iehtMMtah wkhapot ofBMMW
upon his table; irfd Askhag (be genOdmati
what it was? A pot of fine de', saj^ h)^;
with toast and nutmeg. The phy^iiiMaii
iiAmediatdy said. Sir, foyt must not
touch it: It is certain death kft a i9hah iii
your condition. Not touch It, do'ctioi^!
replies the gentleman : why, if my 0^td
were on this hand, and that pot of sAe on
the other, I wouM drink it, Wefe I siire of
being thrown hito my grave t^Tki nroment.
This, my lords, is a singfe instance of
the perverse will of some people ; but thi6
whme country of Ireland, at least the com-
mon people there, may be brought as aii
instance of die same kind: they have iii
that cout)trj[ a Spnrituou^ fiquor cdfed
Sheepey, which by many experiments has
beta found to b^ perfect pbiHon ; for whidl
reason strict la^ have bten enacted
against it, tocidt tcvct^ puhisKments inflicted
upbnthoS^f9ia6dhMorr6taitit; yet ^ it
uit03i!icates^ atid may be had cheap, though
the people know how pernicious it is, ib^y
will drink it, and in spite of dl the goven»-
ment csA do, they fidl tpotk ways and
means to get it Our dh a not of sut^h a
pemicioiis AatUre as this Irtth fi^ox* : if
drank moderatd^, it may sometimes bo df
service: like idl odier strong liquon, the
vice consists in tite tec^ss : but as it is a
sbit of luxury, even When it is not draiik to
excess, why shotdd not the government
avaH iMf of thiir lincdrjr, as Wdl itf It
otight todo of eVery other luxury? K Is
Oirltmiy yw o^ ttf t!(u^> and dial wfliiii
1255]
le GBORGB IL
DeMemtktLmk
CUS6
I
reBtimia die noe; hat the
▼ice, when the penoa guilty can be Iwaliy
convicted, ousnt to be miiiHihedt WMTyou
have proper laws for toat purpoie; for
Airily yqa will not absolutdy protubit what
is b itseff'innocenty often «j^ienlly and some-
times necessary, for the sake of preventing
a vicious abuse of it; especiiuly as the
mamtfacture supports great numbers of
!rour people, ana the commodity some va-
uable branches of your commerce.
Having thus shewn, my lords, that this
Bill must necessarily, in some measure,
restrain the excaisive or vicious use of spi-
rituous liquors amongst our labounng
poor, I must put your lordships in mind of
smother very great advantage it will be at-
tended with, which is that of setting us
free from two laws, that are both of the
most dan^rous consequence to our liber-
lies : one is the iamous act called the Pot
act, which, as it ^ives a discretionary
pofver to the commissioners of excise^ to
raise the tax to 61. or lower it to 20it* per
annum, must have an effect upon the vote
of every ale-house keeper witnm the bills
of mortality, and this must afect the free-
dom of election all over thje kingdom, be-
cause many of those ale-house keq>ers
have votes m other counties, cities, or bo-
roughs^ besides Middlesex, Surry, Lon-
don, and Westminster. The other law we
are by this Bill to get free from, is, the act*
for layins a duty upon the retailers of spi-
rituous fiquors. This law, my lords, is a
most dangerous, a most ensnanng law, and
would be a most terrible instrument in the
hands of a wicked oppressive minister ; for
it not only enacts, that you shall not sell,
but that you shall not utter any spintuous
liquors in any leis quantity than two gal-
lons. From the word, utter, it might be
ttUcged, that a man could not so much as
|dve a dram to his friend without incurring
the penalty, and from hence any one, even
4>f your lordships, might be convicted, and
made liable to the penalty of retailing spi-
rituous lic^uors, in a less quantity than two
gallons, without a licence.
These two dangerous laws we are, my
lords, to get iree from by this Bill, if pass-
ed into a law, and this, L hope, will be an
argument of some weight m its fkvour ; but
the chief argument is its being already
passed, and desiffned by the other House
as the method tor raisinj^^ a great part of
the supplies for the ensumg year. This,
I hope, will be an argument not only for
jour lordships passing this Bill, but for
jfim passmg it without amendmeut I
am as much against your giring up your
power of amending money biUs as anylonl
can be ; bat at the present coDJancSure,
wb^i the affiurs abroad are in such a
ticklish situation ; when they require the
most speedy and the most strenuous inter-
position ot this nation, it would be the
neight of imprudence, if not madness, to
try experiments with the other House.
A trial of this kind might breed such a con-
test between the two Houses, as would pot
a full stop to the wheels of our govern-
ment, when the liberties of Europe, and
consequently our own, require its acting
with tne greatest^ energy as well as free-
dom. .
1 shall grant, my lords, that if this Bill
were rejected, some other method poight
be contrived for raising the neoessaiy sup-
plies : we are not as yet, thank God ! so
much reduced as to have but ooe resource.
I hope, our enemies will find to their cost,
that we have as vet a great many* Bitt
let us consider, that tliis fund has almdy
been proposed to our monied men; and
they have agreed to lend the ncceasaiy
sums upon it at 3 per cent. We cannot
depend upon having the money upon any
new fund, at the same interest. It may
in the mean time rise to 6 or 7 per ceot :
this very jumble in our affiurs may be the
cause of its rising to that height; for
credit, public as wdl as private, k a most
tiddish thm^ to be dallied with. It often
evanishes without any apparent caoae, and
is sometimes hurt by accidents, which in
themselves a{^>ear to be of little or no
consequence. Therefore, I must give it
as my opinion, that if your lord^iipB have
a just regard either to the liberties or the
credit of your country, you will proceed in
your committee upon this &ili, and go
through it without any amendment; tor
the present state of foreign a&irs reauires
the utmost dispatch : nay, the least oemur
in providing for thesuppiies of this critical
ensuing year, might so much disconcert
his majesty's n^ociations abroad, migbt
so long delay his being able to resolve imoa
any sdieme for his future conduct, ana so
much retard his preparations at home^
that the season for givmg relief might bs
irrecoverably lost ; and n such a fiiUl dis-
appointment shoidd hiq^pen, I hope, the
misfortunes the nation may be thereby ex»
posed to, will not be laid at the door of
any of his ouyesty's ministers.
Lord Heroeyt
My lords; the aoUe lords who arc
187]
an the Spri^fmu Liquori BUL
A. D* I74S.
[itSB
drocates tot tbb Bill, may adoMniie^ee
he evib produced by the drinking of spi-
itttous liquors; but to those who yiew
he Bill in the same li^ with me, they
oust a(^>ear to have very little concern
bout them ; and therefore, may properly
oough be compared to Romish penitents,
rbo, after committing the most atrocious
Times, think* they mive made sufficient
itooement, when thev have solemnly con-
ened them. But their thus freely ac-
[AOwledging the evils, without taking any
proper method to prevent them, but on
he contrary, resolving to license them, is
10 reason against our endeavouring in
his debate to set those evils in a proper
ight ; no more than it is a reason itt^ainat
ireaching, that every one acknowbdges
he evils produced by sin. People should
Mit only acknowle()ge the evil, but they
hould forsake, and endeavour to prevent
)ie cause. It is the duty of our church-
nen to endeavour to prevent the cause by
^reaching, it is our duty to endeavour to
>revent it by wholesome laws, and ade->
[uate punishments ; and vHien I think aa^
NToposed measure inconsistent with this
lut^, surely, I do not depart from the
Hibject in debate, when I recoomend to
irour lordships your duty, by endeavour-
ag to raise in your breasts a due compaa-
lioa for the misfortunes of your fellow
ireatures. For this, 1 know no way more
^tual, than by laying before you, in
^r strongjest light, the evils that have
^D, ot will be occasioned by your nef^
lect of your duty ; and if there are per-
Ktps, who from experience, know those
evils better, and consequently can repr&-
lent them more feelingly than I can, I
tt to move for their Ming examined,
jon this head, therefore, there has
Aot peen, nor can be, any departure from
the subject in debate; out as the noble
ord who spoke last, insisted chiefl}^ upon
two arguments, which were, that this Bill
iril], in a great measure, prevent the evils
Domplain^ of, and that it is not safe to
proceed farther at onee, I shall confine
irhat I hava to sa^r, to those two argu-
meatMf which, I think, are both fallacious.
Bis reascms for believing, that this Bill
inlt^in some measure prevent the evils
conaiplained of, are, that it will bring the
retail trade under some regulation, so that
the poor will not have such free access to
these liquors ; at least to debauch in them,
ss they have at present; and that the
liquors must be sold at a higher price, or
aot made so good in quality as the^ are
at ptemxii because, though the additboal
duty is in itself but small, yet, when coi9»
pared to the price of the commodity, and
the.circumstanees of the purchaser, it must
be allowed to be high.
As to the first of these reasons, my
lords, if I thought that the justices of the
peace, and the peace officers would do
their dut^, I shouU admit there would be
some weight in it ; but when the consump-
tion of these liquors is considered as a
fund for bringing in money to the public
treasury, I am from experience convmced,
that they will not do their duty, that they
will have private instructions frooi dieir
masters the ministers, to neglect thek*
duty ; and as many of our constaUes and
headboroughs are ale-house keepers, and
win consec^ently become licensed gi»-
sellers, their interest will become incon-
sistent with their duty: and in such a
case, w# mayr easily judge, which of the
two they will prefer. From hence, I must
suppose the <uily di^rence to be, that if
poor people now commit any debauch in
these liquors, they must do it privately in
the night-time, or in some by-comer;
whereas, if this Bill be pasBed into a lair,
they will, as formerly, uo it openly in our
hido-streets, and at noon-day.
Besides, as to the temptation, as weH
as access, can your lordships think, there
is no difibrenoe between an avowed and a
clandestine gin-shop ? I know, or at least,
have heard of another vice, which, thank
God ! is not yet licensed by public autho-
rity, because our ministers haiye never yet
thought of raising a fund from it ; and yet
a common dealer in that way, I belieye^
generally knows, where the commodity
is to be met with : so a common dealer in
spirituous liquors may perhaps know,
where there is a little clandestine gin-shots
and might know, were the law now in
being more rigorousljr executed than ever
it was ; but one, who is no common dealer;
one whose natural inclinations, or acquir-
ed habits, do not put him upon the search,
may be quite ignorant, may continue all
his life in that ignorance^ and may conse-
quently never he exposed to any tempta-
tion : whereas, if you pass this BiU, there
will be a licensed gin-shop, with a pom-
pous description c? the uquors upon the
sign-post, at every comer; so that no
man can pass, witnout being exposed to
the temptation, and will often be invited
to partaxe of the delightful liquor by soma
old acquaintance, who may casuaw hap-
pen at that time to be with some mends
4
1S50] 16 G&0B6B IL
in the diop* Mutft sol your loidriiipi
from thence lee, that the tfldipMitiDfli to
rice will bt More fiwueat oKd mtirt
this fice
allorfaig, aOer this Bill k pMSSd, dMh
thej can be supposed to be at pieeeat i
And eveiy one kuowti that a peMon's
yielding to afew temptatieM of tfiia kind,
may lead him into each a habit, as he
shall never be able to shake oft The
noble lords may make what acknowledg-
ments they will of the e? ils arising mm
tibe ose of spirituoua liqfaors, but I am
sore, they cannot be touched with the
thoughts or the apprehensions of those
Cfvils, in the manner thev ought to be^ if
they pass a Bill, whkn so cfridea% and
so neeessarily tends to increase both
the number and llie force of the tenptlh
tions*
The aae of these li^om, I sMl grant,
may be innootnt : while it is medefiie, it
contmues to be eo; but let uscenMer,
my lords, that the use of nd one iott of
thmg in the World, more aatorany or more
imperceptiUy rune mto an afcose, tliaii tile
use of spirituous l^nOl1l. I hare ^Oready
shewn, that the Ikensfog of homteB will
be no sort of check to this abitte^ as long
as rau make either Ae use at the abuse,
a mnd for-bringing money into the paws
40f our ministers; and now I sMIsnew,
that this Ause cannot be in the leaat
checked or prevented by die smidl addi^
tional duty tMToposed by this Bill. Uj^
tills head, I must diflSsr from the «oUe
lord who spoke last, with regard to aeme
very material facts; and this dMereoce
wfllsbew, how necessary it is for us to
make a fitrther eaquinr into this aflUr tiian
we hare yet done. Ihe noble lord saiid^
that as tiie distillfaQg trade has now beoi
lor many years exercised without any sort
of monopoly or exdusive privilege^ we
must suppose, that the distillers now seB
theit liquors at as cheap a rate as they can
possibly dford. In this I diffisr from his
imrdship; the very nature of the trade
Unmithes it with a sort tf monopoly: it is
io mysterious, tha£ no man can know what
profits may be made, unless he has been
Di%d to the bumesa; and tiie settbg up
of » distiilery requires tueh a large atock,
that no aian will ever think of settmg it
tm^ unless he is well assured <rf the profits
Wat may be made. Thia k the reason
tftat, noCwithsom<Kttg tile unbounded *li<.
ber^ allowed bylaw, so fewhu^set up
av asade arigare in thia business, &tikfft
those that were bred to tile trade ; and
&• great fcrtanei hitely raised i^afew
DdmemOeUnb [IfOl
yuamlTfaomeofthediatfflera, filwidiuie
a ceaWndng proe^ that k la the most
Mofitable trane of My now wercised m
tiie Uiiadoa* ateept that of bc^ broker
to a pnme ndfiiriter. TlM^r^ibM I mm
aofipoae, that tito distillers do ffot now fe:
theur liquors near so dhtBip as they tim
aflbid ; and eooseouentiy, that they maV
take tiM wboleadoitioaalddty f^oQ them-
seivesi and probabfy wii do so, in order
fiot to cRScocwage the consumption*
Another very material fact I diier from
his lordship Id, is witii rrnvd to tiie qfoao-
turn of the do^ to be a&ed by this BS:
for ho caUed it edL per gdon, wberess
upon the moat ^emickytts sort of epiritooa
liquor, and the only liquor made ose of by
the poor, I say, the addMond doty is but
oaepemiy, or three haUpeaceatBanst The
additienal duty upon j&iriirii brandie9i,
aqua vitifc, aadotheraorts of fine KomeflEiade
spirits JBf it is true, to be sist-pmee a gaBoo^
beeattse they are mute or drawn generally
f^om foreign taaterials ; but coinien gis,
whkh is the great and oidy mdaanoe ooa>>
plained of^ iaaP drawn from EiiaMi mate-
rialsi andmaybe somBde,astobefiBMeby
tfe&BQItobuatiinsetati^yeDoeDer galloQ
atmoatyWMdkiasosmal^anadntion, that
the disfiiler wiU eertaMy take Uie whole
i^fon hifaaei^ rather thmi have tiie price
raised, er tiie Kqosrmafe leaa pnlabble to
tiio cokiilUMtor* But aappoae ttat every
aort of spi^uoua fiquor fit Ibr letaS, or
tiM ceuU be made fit fiir read, were to
bnellarged with MpergaHonadditiooal
duty, t& question^ whetiier or no the dis-
tffler wyi take tiie wIMe, or the greatest
pert af tills tqf>Ofl himadf, depeadn upon the
profit be now taaftes; fi»r If a gmonaf
spiritt, wHA he How tells fat Md. does
aot coat hhtt tto&te M or 9dL H is my
epinioak h» wfil take tie itiioleu|^ hmr-
seU; raneif tiMUi discourage the eonsuB^
tion amcMff tiM" poot^ who- amhitefaief
eustomerslsrthS* aiirt rf Squnr; lor ^
per cant, profit iamndyauflKient lor any
tradesntan, and aueh aahe wffioeitBBdj
be aatiafied witi)» ff he tiiould fiad huDseHT
111 danger of Idaing hisliradieby Httcfiipliiig
totakemore; 00 that tiiia very qnasstiflB
ttustshewthe reasonaUeneea of Oe pre-
sent motioii^ tittd tiie uec^saity af yoor
agredngloit, that you may Mfeanop-
p<Mtuni^tb eiaaaiue audi peraooaas may
be auppoaed to know tiie fint, and wiUtng
aaglreyoua-fiMlfid*aud' tAmaeeeunt of
Whai tiiey kno^K. Btftiiettliais^Ilear,
mytofda^ ikaf the adfoesiea Ibr dnf Ki
are agi^ any diriaiyi « any hifoiry, b^
n
on ihg SpiHitiMtt Liqu^s BUI.
le thejr UB MDiibfe Aat every di^y and
3f cammtanflc you enui|iiieiBto« will
uoe n9W qbjediiMUi to their Bill, w
ite somo of ihe aaguments they make
dfinitafiwour*
\ third and a verjr material fact, the
lie Iprd ai|d I di&r in, it in ireUtioD to
retaileis. He tuppoeea, tliey will ad-
tcetbepaipe aft least afavthnga pint to
ir cusUmonif in evder lo reimbarie the
I, per aonum Ihey are to pay for a li-
ice. My lords, u Uiey had noir a li*
ice to retail this liquor without paying
J thing, and if the retaOing of gin weie
^ a very profitable trade, there would
some reason for this supposition; but
both these fads are known to be other-
le, I aaa ^urpeised to hear any such snp«
ution made. That the retailing of gm
I profitable tnde, is manifest from die
»t numben of people that rim into
notwithstanding its being contrary to
r, and liable to many prosecutions and
3r penalties in case of conviction.
y» the risk Aey run of incurring the
Dslty of lOOL for ever|r dram th^ sell,
rorth more than afarthing a pint c I am
miaded, there is not a relader of any
adit in the kingdom but will ghuUy pay
». a year to be free from tfa» risk; and
erefore instead of the liquor's being
Ida farthing in the pint dearer, I most
ppose, it will be sola afiuthing apint
eaper, or at less profit, than it was ever
Id before by any retailer.
I shall adbnit. that a penny^ or even a
rthioj^ a pint, is a great deal to an habi-
il gin-drinker, because there may be
uty days in a year that audi a one doea
It earn a farthing, being drunk or asleep
un one end of the day to the other; but
amsn who earns hialSdL or^.aday,aa
u^ lahonring men do hereabout London,
peony is not of any great consideration ;
r notwithslandinff that addition, he may
ill havo Dear hdf a gill fiir a halfpenny,
f which he may be encouraged to drink
ree or four drama in a day ; knd this ia
« evfl now proceeding from the oheap-
^ of that liquor, because thia practice
^tiaued lor a fiiw days leads them into a
^it of gin-drinking, and this habit gives
°^re or appetite for the liquor, which
creases upon him every day, till it first
Its an end to hia industry, after that to
s morals, then to his health, and lastly to
» nfe, if m the career of his wickedness
^happens to escape being hanged for
"^^u>g) house-breaking, or murder.
Now, my lords, as to the argument
A. D. 174S. |;i26f
dmwii fteiii the danger of the clandestine
trade's being continued^ in case the dutiea
should he at once rmsed veiy high : my
lords,if there were any clandestine trade
in distilling, or if it were desired to lay any
higher duty upon licences, this mipit b»
an argument of some force ; but can it
be pretended, that either of these is the
case? It has not been so mudi as pre*
tended, that there is now, or ^er was,
any considerable chmilestine trade in dis-
tilling : concealments of all kinds are much
more difficult in the distilling way than in
the bvewuig, therefore, when ^ou lay a
duty upon the stili-head, the distiller must
pay it, let it be never so high, and if be
pays a high duty, he must sell his liquors
atahMi price to the retiuler; this will
make them come so dear to the consumer^
that the poor will not be able to purdiaso
any geeat quantity ; and Mm will put it
out M the power of any little clandestine
retailer to sell such a quantity as to make
it worth hia while to continue the trade.
From hence your lordships may see, that
you not only may safely lay a high du^
at onoeupon the still-head, but that it wiU
be a more efectual way for putting an end
to the present dandestine retafi trade^
than the most severe penalties yoii can in •
flict imon retailing without a licence, aa
is evident from theexperience we have of
the law which is now to be repealed.
If a very high duty were to oe hud upon
licencaa, uid no higher duty tfiah is now
proposed upon the still-head» I shall, in-
deed, grant, that it would occasion a con-
tinuance of the present clandestme retail
trade; but has any one in thia debate pro-*
posed laying a higher duty on Ucencea?
No, my lords: I believe, the duty pro-
posed by this Bill will be found too high :
I believe, it will occasion a continuance of
the dandestine retail trade at nnmy of the
little shops in town, and all the h^am ale-
houses in the country : as to the former,
they ean have a licence at no fate, and
therefore tiiey must either continne tlie
trade in a clandestine manner, or give it
over altogether : besides, if tb^ could
have a licence, it would subject them to
the quartering of soldicvs, which while
they continue Sieir dandestine trade, they
are free from ; so that to one of these
shops or houses, a Ucenoe wili redly cost
them 8^ a year or more. Then as to the
Utde de-houses in the i^euntiji', though
20r. a year is asmdl sum, and tuck asum
as will be cheerfully paid by all houses in
good credit opd Immimm, ratbatthpn rust
1263]
16 GEORGE II.
Debate m ike Lordi
any risk, yet tbe keepers of thoee little
ale-houtes will rather risk going to tbe
house of ^correction for two montliSy than
p^ 209. for a licence; and, I believe, the
projectors of this Bill will find themselves
very much disappointed as to informers,
for infonners of all kipds are so much
hated both by poor and rich, that no man
In any business will become an informer
for fear of losing his business. To say,
that every ale-house-keeper that takes out
a licoice, will have an interest in becoming
an informer, b a most fallacious way of
reasoning. On the (contrary, he would
ruin himself if he did, because no man
would afterwards go near his house ; and
therefore, if this Bill be passed in tbe
•hape it is in, I shall expect, in a year or
two, to see the clandestine retail of gin as
firequent as ever in our little shops, and
bve places; so that a^ vou are to do by
tfiis Bill, ia to give the better sort of
houses a licence to retail this pernicious
liquor openly and avowedly, and to leave
the little shops and bye places to sdl it
privately as before : whereas, if you lav a
nigh 'duty upon the still-head, you will at
once put a full stop to the clandestine re-
tail, and very miu^h diminish even that
which may hereafter be carried on by li-
cence; which is, I am sure, what you
ought to aim at, but is not, I am afraid, the
design of those who first projected this
Bill.
I shall conclude, my lords, with saying,
that I was extremely sorry to find the no-
ble lord so much put to it, to find any ad-
vantage accruing froin this Bill^ as to be
obligra to resort to a forced construction
put upon the gin-act, and an imaginary
danger which ne supposed might have
arisen fr^pm the pot-act. As to the con-
struction he put upon the words of the
gin^act now to be repealed, it is such a
one as no lawyer would ever have thought
of, and I may venture to say, such a one
as no commissioner of the excise, or jus-
tice of the peace, would ever have dtured
tohaveput upon it. And as to the danger
he supposed mi^ht have arisen from the
pot-act, it is altogether imi^inary: the
commissioners never yet attempted any
Sttch thing; and if tiiey had: if they
had been but suspected of rabing any
alehonse^keeper's tax, or lowering ano-
ther's, on account of their way of voting
at any electieB, the other House would
certainly have taken notice of it, and
would have punished them in a most ex-
en^lary maraer, Acoordusg to the same
[«
way of ar^M, may it notbeaia, ih
all our excise hws are of dsDgataiiQi
sequence to our liberties; becme b
them the commissioners oi exciR fan
in every case, a power to modify!
penaltv, and to remit the iriiole, or qqi
the wbde, as' they think fit; yet, Ik
lieve, the noble lord would now be v«
sorry 'to see his arsameat prefifl n i
as tocausea r^teafofaUoiircxdKlsi
But suppose his loiddiip in the i^
with reelect to both his obemtfiaB
what has it to do with die ameo&v <
this Bill? If die proposed amnSa
should take place, both these Isvi wvi
nevertheless be repealed, either bj A
Bill, or some other Drought in initoai^
therefinre, as I am convinced, your bn
ships, if ftdly informed, will sgne tosv
thefiW as has been proposed, I ihd k
for acreeinff to the noble lond's I
TheEarlofJ5a/A.-
Mhr lords; I am not sgsinaiA
lay, ora nrtfaer enquiry mtol&sSni^k
cause of my being sensiUe, that tinni
enquiry would produce any neir sbjedis
to this Bill, or strengthen thosedatla
already been made ; but beanie of i
dangerous and ticklish aitoatioo ve ad
with regard to foreim affiurs. If it «
not for liiis, I should be fiir yoortiil
as much time to conakler, snl m m
methods to get infi^rmationB, ss aa^li
c^id desire ; because^ I am eonnsii
the more you consider, and the beosji
are informed, the more you will iffN
of the Bill now be§ote you. Bsl^a
lords, in the present situation of tkeifil
of Europe, when its l&erties sie kn
much danger ; when ail the couitikli
rope, that are concerned for ihetfom
vation, are looking sted&stly upas M
when even the enemies of puUic Ilii
are looking stedfiutly upon our mmai
ings; the Ibrmer in dotd»t, whetkr if
shall tamely submit to dieir impendB|ll
or firmly and bravely unite in eppoMdl
the latter in doubt, whether they aU*
to proceed in the ambitious scneoMi A;
have formed, or restore the iuiiijiiBfi
Europe upon such tenns as wiH pita
end to them: in auch drcumitsna^ la|
the least delay in a Bill upon whichs^
Cof the supplies for the ensuiog ja
od, wouldbe of the most dangeni
conseque|}ce, especially if fton tbat ii{
people should have reason to condrii
that the Bill itself wouU belwt, sail
BM^eslgr's resolationa, aa weBas lusfi^
mm
on t^ SpHfiMB ii^mR-s Bill.
fidttbMi imt to a fuU ttM fo» a mmrtkor
wo at least, whidi wodd be tfit eooaf
ineaoe of the ddav now propaaed*
From ntah a delay^ my ImIs^ hit uyaH
Y caM not but 8«p^>aee, that hl» pMrlia-
KBi was agaiDft, or at ]eBat very indiffe-
•Bt about bk conoeitiiig any meaaiivc*
orpteterviagfhebdaneeof power; «iid
fonwidt ft suppositioD, could bis nia|i6*
f pM>eeed in any of those negociations be
isy now bave upon the carpet ? Could be
■Mire any of tfaoae powera, wbo now may
|p wiJIii^ to join with bkny^tfaat be would
aasenaUy and vigorously support them ?
f biamajeaty cotdd give no sucn aaaurancoy
an you expect, that any of these powera,
rho are exposed to an immediate attack,
rould precipitate their own ruin, by fruit-
Mflly ebdeaveurlng to prevent that of
baif neighbours? The Dutch have but
oat come in to your measurea: the States
if Holland have juat reaolved to aasiat the
nieen of Hungary with 20,000 men ; but
I they ahould hear of this aiotion's beiiig
gieed to, it would diaeoarage them from
aocaeding in that reaehition, and as it ianot
fst agreed to by the other ^ovince^ it
padd certamly be laid aaidau The kin^
if Sardinia^ whose chief dapend^nee la
nan the aaaiatance he nray expect from
hia nation^ would from that aaoaaant dea«
Nsr of getting any' farther aaaiatance, and
iaoU^ ceaieauently, aooept of the best
ansa he could get from Fraiace and Spain.
Eaea the queen of Hungary, upon seeing
Maelf daaerted by yoo^ and in courae by
il the leat of Europe, would reaolve ta
abmit to the terms attned by France;
iri thoa^ for aa trifling aathis motion may
iMBi to^aome of your lerdshipa, yet upob
he fitte of it may depend the ftae and tbe
Ibertiea of Europe*
Let us conaider, my loads, how near liie
fane for action appraacbeab Kwearere<<
•bad to have any share in the operadoiia
if next campaign^ it ia higb time &r hia
aajcaty to be resolved, and to begin to
irepare ; but he can neither reaabre, nor
bfpir to prepare* till thia Bill, or some
»ch Bill as tliis, be passed. If any of the
Nher paweia of Europe think of taking a
bare with us in the operations of the next
Mipaign, it ia hi^ time for them to reairive
ttid to begin to prepaie ; but they can nei«
bar raaolve^ nor begin to prepare, till hia
■ajeaQr's resolutions are known* Howd«i«*
|Bfous then nmst it be for ua at this aea^
Bn of the year, to delay a Bill of thia na«
tarr? How much more dai^erona to da
Mdf diiag by wbaah the Biilirottld
[VOL. XlLl
\y hilaat} At another tiasfc the lost
might perhapa be rofMured by another Bill
for tbe same purpeae; but upon this oo*
eaaioa, and at this critical tfaaaoa of tha
Tear, itw ill bo impaaaible to repair the losS|
bacause be&Keaii;p new Bill can be passedt
fOPei|n powers will have taken their rof
seluUoiNs aa to their olHld^flt for aexl
campa^ at least; we cannot then n^t
them alter their resolutions; and befare
the ooA of next campayn, the libettiaa of
Europe nay be past redemption..
I hope I have aa great aooaoenn for the
hym of my fellow ^ubjeeta aa w iMl ift
this House, or as any man can mure; (
have as great a coacwrn for thrir lives as I
have for my own ; biit as I have a greater
concern for my own liberty than 1 havf
for my lifeysoi hai'e aareater coaeemfor
the libertaeaof thepeoj^e ofEagUnd thaa
I have for their lives ; ttid shall never giva
HMfself any trouble about preserving the
lifo of any man, wha^ I think, does net pre^
for bis liberty to his life« If the liberties
of tbe pec^le of tins nation should be de^
stroyed by tbe reieoti^ of this Bill, they
will have but little rMson to thank those
yfAiOf utxm^hls occasion, pretend te shew
audi a concern for the preservation of their
lives; for if ei^er suCn a fatal misforUina
should happen, they only Would be happy
who did not live to see the thraldom or
their country, or to feel the fetters of
shivery. Thcafefore, if there were reatt^
some ground for apprehendmg, that this
Bill would encourage tbe consunytion ef
spirituous Ikiuora, or promote anf excesp
in the Use ot theee liquors, aa this iacon-
venienoe may be remedied the vertr next
session of parliaiBeat^ I cannot belp sus*
pecting, and« my lordsy I will take the
freedom to dedare my suspicion, that the
violent opposition to this Bill proceeded
mginiilly nrom something else than a con^
earn either for the lives, Uie healths, or the
morals ef the people^
But, my lords, when I consider that;
notwitbataading the kw now m being, all
aetts of spirituous liquors are sold at aa
many places, as openly, mid at as cbeqp a
rate aa they could be, were this Bill passed
into a law, I wonder how any lord m thia
House can be imposed en bv suoh a pre^
tHice. It is wdl known, that punch and
drama of i^ sorts^ even eopunon am not
ea^epted, acenow sold openly and a^ow#
edly at aU public houses, imd many privatf
diops and bye-comecs ; and it ia likawkia
known, that they are now aold aa cheap ai
they were h«fei# Iha paifattosr was mp
[aM]
Id67] 16 GEORGE If.
tcted, io Aat retBOen of nH Undt either
think diey run no riik^ or cherse their
cottomert nothing for Ant rwk ; therefore
It muit be admitted, that thii Bill, should
it pass, can do no harm. It can neither
increase the number of retailers, nor di-
mmish, the fnrice ; because the number is
now as high as it could be, and the price
as low as the liquor could be afibrdea for,
were ^ou to reroal the present law without
enactwg any tning in its stead. This BiU
cannot therefore increase the consunm-
tion, or promote the excess; and if tbe
duties proposed by this Bill do not dimi-
nish both the one and the other, they will
at least have one good effect, which is that
tff furnishing the government with a fund
4br carrying on a most necessary war. By
passing this Bill, therefore, you are sure of
doing some eood and no evil : by reject-
ing, or which is the same, amending it,
^ou cannot propose for this year at least,
to put a stop to the consumption of spi-
rituous liquors, and next year you may do
it, though you now pass this Bill, with as
much ease as you can propose to do,
should this Bill be rejected.
As the consumption of spirituous liquors,
and even the excess in that consumption,
a not now any way limited by the restraint
upon the retail, but depends wholly upon
the inclinations of the people, this BOl
may do service bv giving a turn to their
inclinations. * l^olen waters are sweet,'
is an observation made by one of the
wisest men that ever lived : This may at
present heighten the dedres of the people
for strong waters, because they thinlc they
get them by stealth ; whereas their desires
may become less ardent, when they can
no longer suppose such waters to be stolen.
ISo that in every light I view this Bill, I
think it must do good, and can do no
iiarm; tlierefore I have no occasion to
examine, whether the duties proposed by
it will raise the price so high as to put a
debauch out of the reach of the poor. If
4hev do not, you may next year raise them
higher; but when vou come upon that sub-
ject, I hope your lordships will have some
regard for the Britisli distillery, which for
many years has been so much encouraged
bv parliament, and in Which so many peo-
ple have by that encouragement been in-
duced to invest their fortunes and educate
their children. It is now, my lords, a ma-
trafaeture which supports great numbers
«f our peofAe: it is amaaonicture^yfgfeat
ttse in our commerce : no ship can go to
tm mAmt k ; «a4 beiidea the vastesving
Det&UmOeLordt
[n»
it oocaswna hi tim use of fomgn
we now export mat quantities boCli tadK
North and to Anica. We know wiuii fait
qoantities of French brandies swe run in
upon ns, occasioned by the h%fa dntieB:
It you lay verv hish duties upon our own
boL«^ •plntt!\t wOl praS^ thewne
eflfecL Dutch ffin will then be run in upon
you as plentmilly as Fkench braodv is
now; whereby your own diatiUerf will be
quite ruined, and many families reduced to
starving. But this I mention only for yoor
consideration against next year; for, I
hope, the Bill now before us vriil pass
without amendment, and therefore, I hope
the present motion will be disagreed to.
Lord Talbot :
My lords ; if drinking ^piritBons li-
quors to excess be an evil, whicii» I think,
has been upon all sides ac^knowledged,
then the temptation to that exoen mo^
be an evil, and consequently wliatever
tends to increase that temptation, most da
harm. Now that this Bill will tend to in-
crease the temptation is, I think, without
doubt I shul grant, that npiritooos li-
quors are now sold at most piu»lic booses,
and sold in an open manner to dieir cus-
tomers, and to those that come sdong with
known customers; but they are not, even
at these houses, sold openly, or nt all, to
mere strangers, especiaJiy if they be such
as have any signs of poverty or distreK
about them; therefore if a poor penon has
now any longing for a dram, he must go to
some house where he is known, which m^
be at a great distance; whereas if this Bi&
should pass, he may have it at the next
ale-house wherever ne liappens to be, nod
consequentlv will be less able to resist tbe
temptation he is laid under by hia own ap-
petite; nay, after he has complied with his
appetite at one ale-house, the very next
ale-house he sees will revive it, and every
ale-house he passes by will sive him a new
craving, till he is flustered, and then he
drinks on till he is quite drunk.
But this is not the only way die Bill
now before us will increase die tcmptntion.
Though most alehouses now sdl drams to
their customers, they do not sefl them in
their public rooms, nor have diey pom^Mxis
descriptions of the drams th^ have to adl
either upon their sign posts, or upon the
vessels or casks in their house: whereas
if this Bill be passed into a law^ we nuy
expect to see a lopig catalogue of drams
wrote in gold letters upon every sign-
post; and those that enter wiQoertainif
969]
on f Ae S/ArUuoMi JUfMori BiO.
A. D. 1745,
nd» in . erer^ public room, one or more our ninniAg abool and
ompaoies drinKing ipirttaous liquors, and "^ "-^ - ^
1 some part of it Gaak« or Teasels piled up
-top o€ one auother, with a luscious de-
cription of its contents in ci^ital letters
tpon every one : nay some of our ale*
louses, or ginsbops, under the dQnoinin»-
ion of alehouses, will certainly have rooms
»pen to the ovMio streets as formerly,
rith these casKS exposed to the view of
nrery oaaaeDcert ftod the shop or public
XKMn alwaya nill of customers, eveiy one
)f whont will be ready to invite any friend
le sees fMsainff by, and even to press him
jo come in and taste the delicious cup^
These, and manv more allurements than
[ can think of, will certainly be made use
if by thoae that are to be Bcensed to seU
ipirituoua liquors: their numbers will
make them necessitous, and their neces-
sities will whet their invention. The
temptation therefore will certainly be in-
creased by this Bill ; and if the price is
not raised, the consumption must or course
increase, unless Providence should give a
turn to Uie inclinations of the people, and
make them resolve to take care of them-
selves, since they find their law-givers are
resolved to destroy them. In all countries
I know, or have read of, it is reckoned the
duty of the supreme magistrates to take
care, that the people shall not be tempted
to idleness, expence, or wickedness ; but
ever since we began to think of raising
money for the public service, from the
luxuries and vices of the people, the direct
contrary maxim seems to prevail, and this,
I think, is one of the most open and bare-
faced 4tttempts of the kind that was ever
brought into parliament.
But, says a noble lord, ^ou4nu$tpass
this Bill : you must pass it without de-
lay, without information, without deli-
beration, otherwise the liberties of Eu-
rope may be undone. What, my
certain destruction at home, m order to
pr^ent a casual daneer from abroad i Am
1 know very little of our foreif^ affiurs :
as care has been taken ever since I had
the honour to sit here, not to let this
House know much of our forei^ affiurs ;
I cannot pretend to determme, what
danger the liberties of Europe are now in ;
but 1 cannot believe the danger is so im-
Aiediate as some amongst us would have
us believe; for if this were the case, I am
persuaded, many of our nrighbours would
be applying to us» and begging our as-
astaaoe, as they did in 1701, instead of
[IBTV
the^
Dutch, and almost every other court in.
Europe, to join with us in assisting the
queen of Hungary.
The great mdi&rence shewn by most
of the oUier courts of Europe, especially
the Dutch and the king of I^ussia, whose
dominions lie immediately exposed to the
ambition of France, gives me some reason
to believe, that the liberties of Europe are
far from being in such imminent danger aa
has been represented in this debate ; but
suppose they were, neither his majesty'a.
resolutions, ne^ociations, nor prepara-
tions, can be. m the least interrupted
by the loss of thb Bill. The supplies are
most of them already resolved on ; and if
we have such plenty of resources, as a
noble lord says, we have, his majesty may
depend upon it, that the parliament will
find ways and means to provide for the
supplies they have granted. If monied
men have l>een spoke to: if they have
agreed to lend money at 3 per cent, upon
this fund, the credit they nave promised
does not proceed from this fund, the pro*
duce of which cannot so much as be
gueued at, but from the collateral se-
curity ; and an^ other fund, with the same
collateral secunty, will certainly procure
the same credit ; therefore, as his majesty,
from what is already done, may know, that
he will be supported by his parliament, he
may, now, proceed in aU his measures, ai-
if the supplies were all provided for as
well as granted ; and, I hope, the exche*
quer is not so bare, or in such discredit,
that it can furnish no money, till we give
it something to carry to the pawnbrokers.
But, my lords, 1 would not have the-
projectors of this fund boast so much of
their raising the money at 3 per cent, for
if I am rightly informed, it is the Jews
who have agreed to lendthe money at thia
__ , _^ rate, on condition of their havinff a lot-
lords, wiU you expose the people to^ tery for 800,000/. upon which Uiey will
make at least 10 per cent, profit ; so that
upon the whole money they are to ad-
vance, they will by this means make a
ffreat deal more than 3 per cent. Upon
their side therefore, it may be said, tkey
have made a wise bargain ; but can the
like be said of us, when in order to es-
tablish a fund we are to eocoursge
drunkenness, and in order to raise money
upon that fund we are to encourage
ffaming. Surely, when foreigners hear
uiis account of our conduct, they will say,
the nation must either be mad or reduced
to its last shift, and thia can be no great
]
16 GB0B6E IL
ini^ement for a fortigii omtrtloj<rftt
r the MULttheieiRftre of our creSt and
ation, we ought 'to reject tbii Bill ;
my lords, there k another reason,
1 with me k of all others the most
iiing. The passing of this Bill will
t out of oar power to remedy the
omplaiaed of, and so universally ac«
ledged. The noble lord who spoke
;old us, we cannot remedy the evil
ear by rejecting the Bill, and we may
next year, notwithstanding the BiH^s
: passisd into a law. My lords, 1
aiffier from him in both these posi-
If we amend this Bill as we ought,
eve, it will on that very account be
in the other House; but from thence
entlemen of that House will see what
tend, and as th^ likewise are sensi*
f the evil complained of, they may,
>robabIy will, mimediately order in a
[or reinedying that evil, upon the
plan with this .Bifl, after we have
Jed it as it ought And a Bill thus
:ht in, may certainly be passed into a
before the end of this session. But if
iss this Bill as it stands at present,
^ next year our ministers will have
taste <n the great revenue produced
le encouragement or indulgence of
rinking, ami after they have once
I the sweet, I am afraid, they will
it too delicious a morsel to part with,
^e be sure of getting any sort of Bill
1 into a law for putting a stop to this
rhen the whole power of the admi-
tion, supported by the interest of all
stillers and retailers in the kingdom,
rtainly be against us ?
ides thi^, my lords, we shall, by
e this Bill, lay ourselves under ano-
ufficulty s as the duty upon licences
>e directly mortgaged, in common
I, we can then do nothing that may
sh or lessen the security, without
nsent of the mortgagees; and if Uiere
any doubt of their being willing to
of another fund for securing the
' they have promised to lend upon
B there not much more reason to
of their bein^ willing, after they
leen a year in possession of it?
bre, if we pass this Bill, it may be
lUe for us next year to do any
ibr lessening the consumption of
Nw liijuors. Without being guilty of
of violence to the cred^ors or the
I for they may very nisdy say, you
^ lay any higher inB^ upon the
cooneiii
I
iMolt as lia Itflvlv
still-head, bacaosa it win
sumption, and eonaeqnend^ ths
of retailers, which must or coon
the yeariy produce of the
for our seouri^.
I hope, I have nowAewB,thitAii!
as it stands at present, must certii&i
harm: thatdiere is no neosni^for
passittff it withaut amendment; aal
if we do, we shall render it verydifid
not impossible, to put a stop to the en
ssve use of spviSuoua liquors, ereo tfan
it should arise tea much grssterbe
than it is at now. Theee^ I hope, m
thought Sttficient reasons for mj U
against the Bill in Ita present fona; U
it may be amended so as to Brodaai
very good efcct, I shall, therdore,ba
the question now under year cooadi
tibn. ]
The Duke of Ntnautk :
!
My lords; I am surprised tofisd^
debate last ao long, especially irks Ica-I
sider, that all the arguments a^vM^^i
Bill are founded upon a suppontioB, ^
it will increase the con8amptieD,wfai4a
my opinion, is impossible; for, ifbfi*
creasM the price, the purchase of a ltf|B
dose of spirituous liquors is fMit ootd ti(
power 61 a poor man, let his indiMtioK
be never so strong, let the temptatiovbe
what they wiU, he cannot cooipi? ^
them : he must content himself witii wbt
is necessary, perhaps he may sonetiax!
launch out into a little luxuty, but be vS
seldom or never be able to lauach out bte
a vicious use of such liquors ; for in than
as in all sorts of strong liauon, tfieretfit
necessary, a luxurious, ana a ridomtfe.
A smidl dram of spirituous liquon wxt
sometimes be necessary, in a rery ciU
day^ or when a man is beooms iaiDtvitii
h«rd labour, and it would be craei toitv
the price of them so high as to put fva
this use Out of the reach of the pMr.
When a man takes a larger dran thb a
necessary, oroftener than ia McamM
never so much at a time as ts mskeluD'
self drunk, it is a luxurioususe, and hoorr
ought to be taxed m the poor si well i*
the rich. And when a msa driabs*
much of these liquors at a time «i tow
himself drunk, or ao often as to iflip>t»
health, this is a vicious use whidi ^^
be prohibited and punished, M it <k^
to be prohibited in such a aiass^v'^
to put k out of people'e power tsbi^^
necessary use» or even a little of *•)«'*'
fious use of such Kquers t^ i«bb* *^
ms}
on iH BjpkUwom lAfmn BUL
toe h would be hard to make it jbm
KHsifatle fiNT p^r nen ever to lejoice er be
Denry.
Thus ^ar lordsh^ muit see, that if by
he additional duties, the price of these
PMOffB be nited to high at to pot the vi-
doua uae of them oat of the reach of the
MMir, tiie temptatioM which it is said wiU
m introduoad bj this Bill, oaasoccasieii no
ncrease in the coosaBiptaon, woe they
Mich more powerftil than they can be sun*
RMedtobe. Forniypait»IdonotthiiMc,
hey will have any edsct: the word gin»
NT any other naase the vnlcar please to
;ive it, for, I am told, they have given it a
(lent many, though wrote in^capitsl letters
^oa a caw or sign post, wiH never invite
siy man to drink so much as one dram,
imeaa he has a natural tncKnaition ; and if
le has a natural inclination, and money
D hh pocket, he will now easily lind
rhere it is to be sold ; he may now, I be-
ieve, find it out in any street or viOaee,
wen where he is an utter stranger; for
noat of those little shops Aat now sell it
lettNse informations, because they have
iotlun|rio lose, and are sensible, that no
Dan will become an informer, iiHien he is
ore he can get nothing but contempt by
iia uiformation.
As we find it impossible to prevent this
private retail, there is no method for pre*
<enting people's com^lyine with their in*
llnations, but by raismg the price so as to
wt the fi-equent purchiwe, or the purchase
ff a large quantity, out of their reach ; and
hie wiil, in seme measure, be the efibct of
hieBilL A noble lord has already demon-
kt«ited, that it will ndse all spirituous
imors, at least a penny in a pound, above
^nat thty are now sold for ; bat, in my
pinion, he has stated the advanced prioe
ao low, and I shall beg leave togive yeur
iHships my reasons ror thinking so. I
lost jmn with him in supposing, that all
pirituous liquors, especially thett liquor
ailed ffin, are now sold as cheap, both
y the disdiler mid retailer, as taey.can
>emMj nSofd to sell them ; for though
here be a mystery in the trade of distil-
ing, and though it requires a very large
back to begin with, yet there are now,
nd have been for many yeaie, sudi num-
lers of people in that way of business, that
re must suppose, they dl sell now as
!heap as they can ; because in every sort
if manufkcture, where there are such a
lumber of masters, that they can enter
MO no sort of combination, every oneun^
leraeHa the e&er, ia ovdcsr te ingsossthe
A. D. 1719. [BHI
moreofdietnde to hiasseif, tiUbylbh
competition they are all £Mrced teselfat as
low a price as tiie maau&cture cna adbiil
of. To this 1 shall add another general
obserratioo, diat every dealer must sell t$
sudi n profit, as wiU not only aibrd him m
reasonable interest ficNT his money emniojrei
in that wny, hot abo a rwisooaBe in^
snrance fiir the risk he runs, by some ef
his customers becoming insolvent.
These twoebservations being premised,
ray lords, I shall suppose, that a distiUer
has 6d* profit upon every gallon of t^asa
liquors he sells ibr IBd, per gallon, mi
that this is the least any distiller can afciA
to sell it for, allowmg him a reasonable in^
tetest for the shilling it costs him, and a
reasonable insurance for the risk he runa
of losing that shilling by the insolvency ef
his customer; for considering the low
people distillmn deal with, this ruk must
oertainly be very great. But after this
Bill is passed, we must consider, that
every ganen ef the^me sort ef liqner wiH
cost the distiller ISd* and that he now riiks
IBtL whereas he before risked but i#.;
therefore he must now sell at a profit
higher than what he did before in oropon»
tion, that is to sa^ as he had bemre 6d.
prottt upon a shilling advance, he must
now have 9d* profit, Mcause he advaacaa
IBd* and consequently must now sell for
2j. Sd. what he before sold for ISd.
Hie ease will be the aame, my lordu^
with regard to the retafler, for his pvofil
must likewise be increased in proportion
to his advance. To illustrate this, I shall
suppose, that he now sells for half a orown
by retail, a gallon of these spirits for which
he pays but 18^ to the distiller; for ai his
risk is greater, and as he must maintain
his faimly by his retail trade, his profits
must be larger than the distilleis in pr^
portion. Now alter this Bill is passed, hit
musttii^, as I have shewn, to the distiller
&. Sd. for vriiat cost him before but 18dL
Do your lordships think, he will add to his
retad price no more than the additional ddL
he pays to the distiller, and, conseouently,
sell at St. per gdlon by retail f No, nj
lords, he will expect, and will take a proot
in proportion to his advance, at the samp
rate as formerly, and, consequently, roust
have 4i6d, for what he before sold for half
a crown. But thir is not all : as he is new
to pay dOf . yearly ior a licence, he wiU
expect a proportionable profit open diat
too, and will, upon that account, mafae an
adcUtien to his retail price,' te the aaseani,
Ibeliafe, of at leasts agaUen^for^i
itrd]
16 GEORGE II.
Deiaia m the Lohb
[1876
he will, I sir, expect d^n
upon what he pays for a ficeooey he must
make at least 9d«. 4c^ a yen by this
additional advance in his retail price, and
at M. a gallon must sdl very near three
pints a day, in order thereby to raise SSs.
4«^ in a year ; so that, according to this
calculation, the spirits which are now sold
by retail for 2s. 6d. b eidlon, will, after
this Bill is passed, be sold for 4ftf.
These calculations I make, my lords,
from the known practice and course of
trade ; and from hence you may see the
' reason why, when you lay a tax upon any
commodity, the d^ers must lay a great
d^ more, so that the advanced price
paid by the consumer, will always be more
than double the tax you impose. But I
shall not say, that the advanced prite
upon gin to be occasioned by this Bill, will
rise quite so high as I have calculated.
Both the distiller and retailer will use all
the arts* they can, to prevent the oon-
aumers from being sensible of the advance.
The distiller mil make his spirits weaker,
1 shall not sa^ worse, because the weaker
they are, I think, they will be the better;
ana both the distiller and retailer will adr
▼ance their price by slow degrees, though
they suffer in the mean time : nay, bwi
will continue to sell at a little less profit,
in proportion, than they do at this time ;
but they cannot continue long to sell at a
great deal less, because they would be
ruined if they did ; therefore, their chief
Art, I believe, will be to lower the quality
of the spirit, and, consequently, it will not
be of sudi mischievous consequence,
either to the health or the morals of the
pe<mle.
However, my lords, notwithstanding all
the arts they can use, notwithstanding
their lowering the quality of the liquor,
tiiey must soon come to sell it dearer ; be*
Clause, if they should lower, it too much,
the consumers would become sensible of
it, and might perhap entirely give over
the use of it. I therefore Uiink it de-
monstrable, that this Bill must raise Uie
price, which must necessarily diminish the
vicious use of these liquors among the
poor : whether this advance in the price
will quite abolish this vice, at least among
tiie poor, is what we are to try by this ex-
periment : if it does not, we may next
year add 6fL more ; but we should not do
It at once, because, as there is a necessaiy,
as wM as a vicious use of spirituous u-
quora, we should load the necessary use
•Q fiurfher than we find» by experiences to
be absolutdy roouisite ibr picvenliBgtibc
vicious use. of tnoee liquors, amoiigoBr
poor labourers and manufacturers.
The Earl of Sandwich :
My lords; Icamiothdipobienii^,
that every word said by the nobk duke, I
when i^ntly understood, is m fswoorot
the motion, and yet he designed it, 1 b^ j
lieve, against the motion, becanse beseeos
to be an advocate £k the BiIL It he
been asserted by several lords who btn
spdce against the Bill, that it will notnise
the price of spirituous liquors to the coi*
sumer, and they have given strong reaaws
for what they assert: on the other hsnd,tlK
noble duke asserts, that it wiUraisetbe price
very considerably to the consumer, sod h«
given us some veiy ingenious calculatkn
to prove his asisertion. Is not tbis con-
trariety of opinions, the stroogeit up-
ment that can be made use ^ in frvour of
the motion? For, surely, the distiUenaod
retailers are better judges of diis&ct dun
any of your •lordships can beu Let v
thmfi>re agree to the motion, thst ve
may have an opportunity to ^duuDe some
distillers and retailers, or at least Ksse of
them who have already made eitates and
given over the trade. If I were sfiieod
to this Bill, and were convinced of the troth
of what the noUe duke asBerte, I am sare, I
should be a hearty friend to this lootkn,
because I should from thence expect, tbit
all cavilling or opposition to my fiivooiite
Bill would be at an end; and therefore, if
I were not very well convinced of the noble
duke's candour, and of the c&ndoor oi
every lord who has made use of the a»
argument, I should suspect, from tb^
opposition to this motion, that upon chs
topic they spoke against self-coovictioo.
I shall not repeat what has slresdy bem
ui^ed by other lords, for proving, diat
this Bill will not raise the price to co&«
sumere, but only lessen the profits of the
distiller and retailer ; but in answer to the
noble duke's calculations, I must desire
him to recollect what has been alresdf
said, that the liquor called mn is not a ne-
cessary, but a luxury of life ; for wbesa
dram of any spirituous liouor happens tobe
absolutely necessary, wnich, I believe, is
seldom, if ever the case, even the poorest
person may get one single dram of bnody
or rum : if he should nave no money to
pay for it, nor credit for three hslf-peDce»
some good-natured penson would let bin
have it out of charity ; therefore, ^ can
innp ca^e bi^ wd to be a necesmjo^
277]
en the Spiriluous Liquors Bill,
A. D. 174S.
C1S78
ife ; and this the distillen aod retailen
>oth very well know. If it were a neces-
arjrof life: if It were a a commodity
rhich few or none could be without, his
;race's calculations might hold pretty just ;
6r in such thingSi the dealers are always
eady to take advantage of any pretence
or raising the price of the commodities
hey deal in ; but with regard to the luxu*
ies of life, especially those the poor only
iot in, they must be cheap as well as
igreeabley otherwise the poor must give
yver their rioting ; and, therefore, if you
ay a tax upon them, the dealers must
*ither content themselves with a less profit,
)r give over the trade, and the former
hey will always chu^e rather than the
atter: they will never give over the trade,
inless you lay such a tax as amounts very
lear to a prohibition.
Now I am up, my lords, I must take
notice of one argument in favour of this
Bill, which has not been, I think, fully
mswered. It has been satd, that the pre-
sent prohibition is of no manner of signifi-
cation : that retailers reckon it of no value,
becaose gin is now sold as cheap b^ re-
tail, as it ever was befbre the pronibition.
It may perhaps be now sold as cheap by
retail as ever it was before ; but this is no
proof that retailers put no value upon the
present prohibition, or upon the risk they
are thereby exposed to. It is only a proof
of what distillm and retailers of gin will
do, rather than ridL losing thdr tnide, or
discouraging the, consumption, by raising
the price. This is thererore ailul confu-
tation of all the calculations the noble
duke was pleased to make, and, I think,
an evident proof, that the price will not
be raised to consumers by this Bill ; for
surely the risk of losing 100/. or even of
going to the correction-house, for every
dram a man sells, is worth more thai^ 6d.
a gallon, and 20f. a year for a licence ;
because, though there nas been of late a
sort of suspension of this penal law, yet
no man could know when the execution
of it would be resumed; and when he
thought himself most secure, the commis-
tioncrs might be, for what he knew, em-
ploymg pei»|^ to watch and inform against
him. fi^t the truth, I believe, is, when
thb prohibition first took place, the distil-
lers all lowered their prices to the re-
filers, VEk order to encourage them to run
^e risk of retailing without raising the
price. This I shall not assert, but it is a
»|ct we ought to enquire into; because, if
^ dktillen then lowered the price to re-
laiien, above ^d. a gallon, aU sorts of
home-made sphits wilfbe sold cheaper to
the consumer after this Bill is passe<^ Uian
ever they were before ; whico is a new
argument for the present motion, and
upon enquiry, may come out to be a most
unanswerable argument against the Bill.
The noble duke was in the right, to pass
over so cursorily the many temptations that
will be introduced by this Bill; for the
introduction of such temptations is a most
pernicious thing in any society. It is true
when a poor man has neither money nor
credit, he cannot comply with the tempta- *
tion, let it be never so strong ; but no poor
man can be reduced to this wretched state,
without having been led away by many
fohner temptations ofthe same kind; and
such a small sum of money, or sucli a
small fund of credit, will enable a man to
comi^ly with the first temptations, thiA,
without reflectin^Y he is led into a habit
which prevents his being able to resist any
future temptation, as long as he has a halN
penny, or credit for a halfpenny in the
worla. Nay, when this habit prevents his
getting any money in an honest way, it
puts him upon thievmg, house-breaxing^
or robbing, in order to get money for
satis^ing its continiittl cravings. How
pernicious then must it be, to let loose
50,000 tempters, and oonse<][ttently devils,
upon the poor people of this nation ; fov
every man who takes out a licence, unless
he be a man of more probity than usual in
this age, will endeavour to tempt his neiffh#
hours, and every man that comes into^is
house, to drink spirituous liquors to ex-
cess. At present, though we have many
retailers ot spirituous liquors, yet they art
in a continual fear, which keeps them un-
der a restraint: they dare not provoke
men to an excess in such liquors, lest re-
sentment, and tlfe qualms they feel next
day, should mduce some of .them to be-
come informers ; but give these retailers
once a licence, they will then tempt by
authority, and without fear : their inven-
tion will be always upon the rack, in or-
der to draw customers to their house, and
to lead those customers into excess ; so that
we shall for the future have always two
armies in the field, and both maintained al
the expcnce of the people : one to fight
against the devil, and the other to fight
under his banner : the former I shall ai<*
ways have a due reverence for, the latter
I shall heartily abhor ; but I do not think,
you will do justice to the former, if yott
allow the latter to hecoove too nunseroiiiu
I37dJ 16 GEORGE IL
and thereCsra, if tou paM this HH, IlMpt
yno will add a dauae^ for rasttiiDiBg tka
number of ginobonsety lest, vnmUimy to
the old observation, you shoidd have mere
dbapeb for the devil, than houaes of prayer
in tno kiDgdom,
My ref^ therefore for our religion, at
well as for the morda of the people, makes
me oppose this Bill ; and my regard ibr
the sinJcing fond confinns me in that op*
position. The ainldng food, my lordb,
was, from the beginning, a f«sd devoted to
the payment of oar public debts : it may
^ be dimtnished for the ease of the people,
for freehiff them from each a ruinous
plague as Smt of an excessive and wicked
use of ^>irituotts liquors, or for disburthen*
ing them of some of these taxes which
4kow lie so heavy upon their trade, and, if
not aboUsfaed, will, I am afiraid, soon put
an end to it; but that fund onght never to
be encroadied on or dhainkhed, for the
aake of providing for the current service,
tmless in cases ofthe most urgent necessi^.
The duties upon sfHrituous liquors are at
present appropriated to the sinking fund,
and it is Justly intitled to them, for it paid
irery dear for them : it pays now no less
than 70,0002. a year to the civU list as
a consideralion for those duties: and cons»-
quently, if the f»eople are not eased of the
plague, the sinkinff fund has a ri^t to all
that can be raised by it, wh^ it is allowed
to continue. But, say the advocates for
this Bill, the duties are to be doubled, and
the new duties only are to be applied to
the current service; ao that the sinking
fund can be no loser. This is the saaae as
If a proiector shoold s^ to nie, my lord,
you make now but £0,000/. a year of your
estate, but I wfll shew you how. to make
40^ provided you first make over to me one
half of the whole produce. What woukl
the world have reason to say of me, if I
riiould give ear to such a project? Simly,
such a projector could have no reaaon to
hkme me, if I rejected^ his project with
oontempt ; and yet if he did, he would not
be so unreasonable a» the projeetors of this
BiU ; for if they consider what they have
said, or at least, what some of tiiem have
aaid, the sinking fond most be a loser, or
their Bill must be quite inefectual with
regard to wha^ they say it is intended for^
If the ciHisumption be diminished by this
Bill, the sinking fond KuiBt be a loser: if
the oonsumption be not thereby diminiiA-
ad, it must be allowed, that their Bill will
be^ogether iMlfodtual, with regard to
"^ ' » «r in any dagmoKamed^-
DebaU inthe Lords
mf the evil, whidi they have all loei*
phcitly acknowledged* Either om er tlbe
other diey must confess, and diis, I tbiak
most shew them, that even they thea-
selves want a few days more to cona^
thia BiU, that the3r may be a little nun
consistent in their reasoning upon h;
therefore, I hope, tb^ will agree totac
present motion.
Lord Bathurst :
My lords ; in this debste, as a
most others, the arguments madecse^f
upon one'side, have been generally fooiuy
on wrong principles, or suppositxms, that
in fact had no being : of this kind of sup-
position* that the present retaileis of spi-
rituoua liquors put a hirii value upon the
riskrthcT ran, and would adl those liqoon
much cheaper if it were not for that ivL
If this ride were to be valued accordiog to
the oomanon rulea of cakidakioB, 1 shall
^rant, that its vdoe would be very coo*
akierable, and maA more, perhaps, tba
6d* a gaflon iqion the liquora tli^ cho-
destiady sdL But hewev^ boriesqueit
may appear, the opinion of Hodibaa is ii
practice right, aa to the .value of any thiag
you please to name; and if theworyii
general pals 8 higher or a less vah» upoa
it than the common rdes of cslcuhDon
will admit of, he alone wili find hioKlf /o
the right, wbo redoona according to m
practical,' and not aocivding to ita ap^
eulathre value. In this way of reckoB-
ing, the risk 1 am amw spesking of, i>
really of little or no vduei the poiaititf
infli^edhy hnr upon the daadeatise ^^
tailors of spiritttooa liquors signify ootbiofi
either because the iMulers are sncfa as^
th^ir drcumstances ideamse aU peoshiet.
or because th^ know the kir canaotbe
executed, nor the penalties enforced.
Acconttng to diis law the dialilier oerer
can run any risfc,for]f he takes care safer
to sell under two gallons at a time, lie
never traasgiesaes tSe law, andthepoorea
retailer, even theae who sen gio aadgiflg^
bread in baakets upon the highway, «i)i
ahrays find money or credit ibrtirogal|oB%
iHiich amounu to but three aliiUis9k
Thus the distiller neverneeds ran mj Hi,
and these lew retailers have aoduog n
lose, which makes them despise your pe-
cuniar? pendties. Buttosneb,itnn7ba
aaid, the correctioO'house wili be s terrar.
Net at aU, my lordsr: theyaiesoaoan-
tomod to starving and bard labouri tbcy
despiaeit: and the stripes, lae kaov, tb?
maybuy of fiwrn trifle; btaddeairialaw
ni]
on th$ SpirihUMS Liquon BiO.
B as a tort of persecationy and tliej,
ke other pefsecuted persons, are alv^ays
idl supported by the rest of the sect.
This, 1 beliefvey mj lords, is the reason
fhy such retaflera undervalue the risjc
bqr nm; and as to the better sort of re-
iflerSy who sell only punch, brandy, or
Dm, and do not in any remarkable manner
Dooura^ tippling or drunkenness in their
ooses, It would really be cruel, it would
e impoBsible to put the law ia execution
punst them. The populace would arise
gainst you : the officers of justice would
sfuse or neglect to execute your orders :
he army, notwithstanding the Mutiny
fill, would disobey your commands ; for
Pthe whole should grow mutinous, there
rould be none to enforce even the Mutiny
fill itself. Against such retailers, there-
bre, it would be impossible to execute the
Iw: this they are fully apprised of, and
kis makes them undervalue die risk they
on. Thus, my lords, I have endeavoured
0 account for the imder value put upon
his risk ; but whether' tliese be or be not
he true reasons, it is certain that no value
i.now put upon it ; or, at least, that 20s.
k year is emal to the highest value now put
ipon it, I oelieve, by any retailer in the
ongdom : n&y, even this, I believe, no re-
ailer would pay, if he did not know, that
Aer this law passes, the risk of selling
ifirituous. liquors, without a licence, will
te much greater than ever it was before ;
lecaose tms law may be executed, where-
IS the law now to be repealed never
Nmld.
As to the temptations apprehended to
lejntrodueed by this Bill, they can, in my
ipinion, be of very little effect The ^eat
md cluef temptation is the cheapness,
itren^, and palatableness of the liquor;
ind if by this Bill you render it dearer,
ireaker, or less palatable, one of which
irill, 1 think, be uie certain effect, you in
Kime measure remove the chief temptation,
lad consequently will, in some measure,
pievent the vice. I hope, it will not be
ntd, that aH houses of entertamment are
diapels for the devil, because at such
tiooses a man may eat or drink too much.
Icoording to this way of reasoning, I am
ifraid, many of your lordships' own houses
inmld come under the same denomina-
tion, and you yourselves would not be
E'te. free from the character of being
ils. But to speak seriously, bouses of
mtertainment are certainly convenient,
aad even absolutely necessary in all coun-
Hies, unless you diould resume the ancient
[VOL.XU.]
A. D. 174«* * [1282
custom, of carrying every traveller or
stranger you meet to your own house.
Some of Uiose houses, I shall grant, admit
too freely of tippling and drunkenness,
and some even mvent methods for pro-
voking their customers to excess; but
which is the best way to prevent this evil,
that springs (as many other evils do) from >
a general good, to leave our houses of en-
tertainment without any regulation or re-
straint, or to bring them under a regula-
tion, and subject them to the eye of the
civil magistrate, in such manner, that he ^
may have a power to shut any of them
up, when he finds they are knade houses
of debauchery, instead of being houses <tf
entertainment ? The last is certainly the
best ; and to say, that the civil magistrate
will not do his duty, because the govern-
ment gets by the excess he connives at, is
an argument that goes a great deal too
far, because the same argument will hold
equally good, against our laying a duty
upon any luxury whatever.
As to the arguiqent drawn from tha
sinking fund, I cannot think there is any
weight in it, consider it in what light you
wiU. Wlten the law now to be repealed
was enacted, and the 70,000^. a year taken
from the sinking fund, and given to the
civil list, it was not designed, that the
sinking fund should get any thing by the
retail of spirituous liquor ; lor an absolute
stop was designed to have been put to that
retail ; therefore, if by this Bill you dimi*
nish the present retail trade, as, I hope,
you wiU, you take nothing from the sink-
ing fund that was ever designed to have
been given it. I shall grant, that the
sinking fund has got a great deal by the
clandestine trade, since carried on, and I
believe and hope its present income will be
diminished by this Bill ; but as you take
nothing from it to which it ever had a le**
gal or eouitable right, it cannot be pro»
perty said to suffer ; for surely, no legal or
equitable right could ever be acquired by
an illegal and iniquitous jpfactice. But
suppose the sinking fund were really to
suffer ; suppose it had an equitable right
to the duties now to be imposed, accord-
ing to the noble lord^s own way of reason-
ig, it would be no argument against the
ill, or asainst what is intended in conse-
quence of the Bill ; for he allows, that the
sinking fund may be encroached on or di-
minished for the ease of the people. Why
then may not a part of it be mortgaged for
carrying on sucn a necessary war as that
we are now engaged in, either as princip
14N]
JflSS]
16 0B0R6B IL
DOaUiHikeLord*
[104
pak againit Spiun, or at auxiliaries to die
Queen of Hungary asainst France and
Spain i Is not Uiis for me ease of the peo-
ple ? Must not both these wars be carried
on at the expence of the people ? and if
the sinkine fund is applied, or a part of it
itoortgagedy for defraying that expenoe,
and Uiereby preventing the people's being
loaded with any new taxes, b not this for
the ease of the people ?
My lords, in the time of sudi a danger-
ous and expensive war, we oug^t to em-
ploy all our thoughts about raising money
by those methods, which may be the least
burdensome to the people ; and upon the
subject of taxation, there are two thinss
necessary at all times to be considered:
that is, to chuse such taxes as may be
oomplted with by the meanest subject
made liable to them, and such as afiect the
greatest number of people ; for if they
cannot be complied with, they will produce
nothing ; and if they afect but a small
number of people, they must either be
burdensome to those that are obliged to
pay them, or they will produce but a small
sum. If these two considerations be
atrictly attended to, what it is that is to be
taxed, can seldom be a question of any
ffreat consequence. Vespasian, one of the
best of the Roman emperors, having suc-
ceeded to an empty exchequer, and a
commonwealth in confusion, laid a tax
upon what I am ashamed to name : a li-
quor, my lords, which I cannot say is a
necessary of life, but m life it is necessaiy
to be made ; and yet we do not find, that
he ever repented or was ashamed of that
tax. But the liquor we are now to tax,
cannot properly be said to be a necessary
of life, nor is it necessary in life tlwt it
should be made ; and yet the tax is such
as affects gteat multitudes of people, and
may be easily complied with by every one
it effects. Besides, as some people are apt
to make too luxurious and ofien a vicious
use of it, the tax will in some measure pre-
vent that excess ; so that, upon every ac-
count, it is one of the most proper taxes
we^ can chuse for supplying the present
exigency.
Not only the tax, but the method now
proposed for raising it, has often before
been recommended, and it has always been
said by the best judges, that this method
of raising the tax was the only way by
which a frequent excess in spirituous li-
quora could be prevented among the poor.
How it came never before to be chosen, I
wnotkaow; but we have already tried
two other melbodsi wUdi hatebodifaea
found ineffectual. The act made in 17^
was repealed ; because it not ooly prefd
ineffectual for preventing die exowife
use of spirituous Uouokb, hot encoongcd
the consumption ana clandestine impoiti-
tion of foreign spirits : and die set dov Is
be repealed has been found tobeiolir
from preventing, that it has increaied tile
consumption, and encoaiaged the ezoei-
sive use of such li^uois ; and thtt in the
worst sort of way, m a dsndeitiiie priioe
way, because of its being napcHiUe to pot
the act in execution against such deam
At the respective times of paanng both
these acts, a duty upon, the stili-heu mi
proposed, as the most proper sad nost ef*
fectiial method for puttioff a stop to ihii
excess ; and now, when bv expsrioKeis
has beta found, that no other laediod will
prevail, and that this is the only efiectoal
method, we find it violently cpposed. Cm
this opposition, my lords, proceed fron a
real design to nut a stop to the evihcom-
phuned ml I toinh, it cannot; end then*
fore, I shall shew so little re||ard toit,«
to be against the present motton.
Lord Hervey ."
M V lords ; it is impoSMbie to cone
to the end of any debate, unksi the coo-
tending parties first agree upon looie pis*
doles or jwihilato/ and wneathepnDd*
pies or padukUa depend upon coDtrorertad
ftcU, those facU ought to be delennised
by the best proof that can be had,be(bie
any just conclusions can be drawn to
them. Ifsuchaproof bedenredofooe
side, and reftised of the other, it wiD al*
ways give a suspicion, that Aose who re-
fuse such a reaspnable request are coo*
scions, at least, d^ the uncertaiaty of the
fiM:t they assert. Is not this, my lords, the
very case now before us? It isanerted
upon one side, that retailers put littk (xw
value upon the risk they now nmin lelliif
spirituous liquors contrary to law: itsde*
med on the other. It is asserted apoo ^
side, that the duty now proposed will fesder
our home-made spirits dearer, weaker, tr
less palatable : this lycewae is deni^
the other. Upon these two ooatreverted
&cts all your reasoning upon this Bill doei
and must depend. Ou^t' not dieo tlie
truth of these faots to be detemuMd b? i
proof, before you proceed faither in »*
a&ir ? And is not this all wedesreby tbe
present motion ? Ifj^ourlorddupcagv^^
this motion, the event wiU shew, wodi
side it is thai founds their aigomeau 0)^
[flBSJ
on Ha Spiriiutm Lifuart BOL
A. D. 1743.
[ISM
nrong principles, or upon tuppoBitions that
a fact nare no beine ; if you reject this
[kotiony I am a&iul, k will be thought,
hat you refused information lest that in-
brmation should overthrow the facts you
lad asserted, and upon whidi vou nad
bunded idl your arguments in favour of
his Bill. This suspicion, my Iprds, will
lo way Gontribttte'to the character of this
tugust assembly ; and this suspicion will
pe very much increased if not confirmed,
rhen it is found by experience, as 1 be-
jeve it will, that spirituous liouors of all
imds ore made as eood and sold as cheap,
ifler the passing of this Bill, as ever they
vere before.
The noble lord who spoke last, endea-
voured to establish the two facts I have
mentioned by reason, and upon the other
lide some very good reasons have been
riven for shewing the contrary; but, I
Dope, I shall be excused, when 1 say, that
the reasoning of a distiller or retailer in
Ihe way of Us profession would be more
tttisGictory to me thani^ that can be said
by any of your lordships upon the sub-
ject. This is my reaton for oeing for the
pn»ent motion, and I think our agreeing
to it the more necessary, because it is evi-
dent, that if spirituous liquors be made as
^ood, and sold as che«», after this Bill
la passed, as they were Wore, not only
the consumption but the excess will be
promoted, by the easy and free access
which all people will, by this Bill, have to
them, at all times and at all places; and
by seeing them publicly exposed and
drank in our public streets, and in every
public house a person goes into, which
will be the certain efiect of this Bill's being
passed into a law.
Am this is the case, I am surprised tp
find anjr of your lordships against allowing
slittle timetoenquire into the truth of facts,
which are of such importance to the health,
industry, and morab of the people, as well
as to the tranquillity of the state. If you
bad not contested the facts : if you had
sUowed them to be as stated by those
who axe favourers of this motion, and had
endeavoured to shew, that, nevertheless,
the Bill was a good Bill, and could be at-
tended with no bad effiscta, you might
have had some reason firom such argu-
nients to oppose the motion, and to deny
yinog yourselves the trouble to enouire
mto facts- which, whether true or false,
could be of no significancy in the debate;
but when all your arguments are founded
^on fiicts, wnidi are said to be otherwise
by thoae who argue a^^ainst die Bill, and
when you allow then: arguments to be
good, if the facts be as they affirm, I
should think, that complaisance to one ano-
ther, as well as a regard to truth, would
prevail with you to allow a little time for
enquiring into the truth of ihe facts so
contested.
The noble lord who spoke last, had
certainly forsot tho case, when he saidt
that the mewod of laying a duty upon the
still-head was never chosen before : it waa
chosen in the year 1729; for by the act
then passed, a duty of 5s. per gallon for
all compound spirits was laid upon the
still-heaa ; but tnat law was evaded by the
distillers making for retail a sort of un^
compounded spirit, which the mob in de-
rision called rarliament Brandy. This,
and not the encoura^ment it gave to the
clandestine importation of foreign spirits^
was the occasion of that law's being re*
pealed ; and the law which is now propose
ed to be repealed, was agreed to, I be-
lieve, by an over complaisance to every
honest, but with all due respect to his me«
mory, I may say, a very c^stinate and a
whimsical man, who would be satisfied
with nothing less than a total prohibition
of the retail of any sort of spirituous liquors
whatsoever.
The method now proposed is not, there-
fore, sudi a one as was never chosen be«
fore, nor does any lord in this House 0[^
pose the method, but the manner in which
It is now proposed \o pursue that method.
I shall not say, that we ought to impose
such a high duty upon the still-head aa
was imposed by the act in 1729; but if
one-hatf*, or three fifUis of that duty had
now been proposed to have been laid upon
the still-head, together with a duty of fiOr*
upon every licence, I am convinced, it
would have met with no opposition within
doors, and with very great approbation
without ; because it would have put the
liquor out of the reach of the poor, at
least so far, that they could not have pro*
posed to get drunk with it at a cheaper
rate than with cmnmon beer. But this
can never be the efiect of the small duty
jwoposed by this Bill : at least I think so ;
and if I am wrong, I shall be glad to be
set right by the distillers and retailers;
for by them only I can be with any cer*
tainty informed.
Lord Lonsdale :
My lords ; I beg pardon for trou-
bling you a second time in this debate t
1»7]
16 GEORGE IL
Debaie m Mtf Lordt
[UH
bat as some bets hav^, I am persuaded,
by wrong information, been misrepresent-
ed ; and as they may be of some weight
^1 ^vour of a Bill^ which I think a very
pernicious one, 1 nrast beg leave to set
you right as to those facts. It has been
said, that the exportation of our home-
mide spirits is necessary for several
branches of our commerce, and that no
ship can ^ to sea without a provision of
such spirits. As to oar commerce, my
lords, the African and the Baltic trade
are die only branches that reauire any
sortmcnt of spirits ; and the oniiy spirits
exported to either of those places, are
eiuier brandy or rum, or Dutch eeneva ; ,
for as the Dutch geneva is sold at least 20 •
per cent cheaper than any such spirit of i
our home manufacture, our merchants of
course chuse to export it rather than our
own; and for that and other reasons,
some of our ships bound to Africa, after
having taken in here what they think
cheapest and most proper for their voyage,
sail to Holland, and there take in the rest
ef their cargo.— Then as to our ships
provisions, it is very certain, that none of
them take in any quantity of home-made
spirits ; bcause, as seamen, and I believe,
most other people in the kingdom, who
have not besotted themselves with our gin,
will chuse brandy or rum, rather than any
sort of home made spirit, when they can
have them equally cheap, all our sea cap-
tains provide themselves with brandy or
rum, when bound upon any foreign voyage,
because they are intitled to draw back the
duties, and consequently, may have bran-
dy or rum as cheap as they can have any
sort of tolerable nome-made spirit. — As
to die danger of our giving encourage-
ment to the clandestine importation of fo-
reign spirits, I believe it is generally
thought to be much greater than it really
is ; for I have been tmd, that our distOlers
do make a sort of spirit, which in colour
and taste, so nearly resembles French
brandy, that it cannot be disdnguished by
any but those who are well acquainted
with the liquor, and have an exquisite
palate ; and that this English brandy is in
great quantities carried down die river
and privately set ashore, in order to make
it pass for smuggled French brandy.
These fiicts I thought it necessary your
lordships should be informed of, and if
you call the distillers, merchants, and sea
obtains before you, I' believe they will
cflttftrm'every tfamgl have said.
The Earl of Chesterfield :
My lords ; as it is now so kte, 1
shdl be as short as possible in iHiat I hsie
to say upon the subiect under your conn-
deration; and, inoeed if the aignment
had not rim into the merits of the Bill, 1
should have given you no trouble; forai
to the motion itself, as to its being necei-
sary finr us in an aflhir of any impoitsnce,
to examine into the truth of ftcts wfaidi
are contested, and upon which oor deter*
mination must depend,-itis80 8d£erideDt,
that the more you explain it, the more
you render it obscure, the more you to-
deavour to enforce it, the weaker it viU
appear. The ^ternicious consequences of
an excessive use of spirituous liqaors, asd
the^xperimental certamty we have of our
pooi^s running too generally into tint
vice, if they are not restrained, have bees
acknowledged by every lord that has spob
in this debate ; but say the advocatei for
this Bill, since we cannot pat an entire
stop to the vice, die government ought to
avail themselves of it. What, will thego-
vemment avail itself of the destxtctioo of
the people ? The riches and power of
the government depend upon the iodust^
and the numbers of the people: if itde-
stroys their industry, and lessens their
numbers, it destroys itself; and can s go*
vemment avail itself of iu own destrw>
tion? That private vices are public be-
nefits, is a doctrine whidi, I remember,
was some years ago advanced in a peni*
cions atheistical bode, called, <> The Fsble
of the Bees;*' but 1 little amazed, that
I should ever see such a doctnne adopted
bgr this House, and made the basis of some
of our resolutions.
My lords, there are many other rices
which yon cannot put .an entire stop to;
would you have the government anH it-
self of them ? Yon cannot put an eotire
stop to robbing upon the highway: woold
you therefore give licences for that pn^
tice, in order to raise money by a tsx oo
such licences ? You cannot put an entire
stop to that fashionable vice caDed ibni-
cation : woold you therefore Mow the
example of the court of Rome, by grsoc*
ing licenoea to common houses of reoep*
tion I At that court I do not wonderat
their raising money by a tax on sadi
licences; because by their rel^ion diey
are authorised* to grant for mooejr, not
only indennitiea lor all past, but indul-
genoeafor all fiitareYioes;'lMit/IdoBOi
»93
on the Sfirituoui Liqudrs Bill. A. D. 174t. [IJM
ID any degree, puf^a stop' to the vicel
that ear religion either authorises
r allows of any such thing.
Tliis argument, therefore, of the govem-
ken^'s availing themselves of the vice,
annot certainly be of anv weight in fa-
oui* of this Bill. Nay, those that make
ise of it, upon a little reflection, crow
shamed of it, and allow, that we ought to
^ut a stop to the vice as far as li^ m our
»oiver ; but this, they say, cannot be done
Lt Oiiiee« it must be done by degrees.
Jpon the contrary, my lords, it must be
lone at onoe or not at all. While the
iquor is within the reach of the vulgar, it
s not done ; and it must be either within,
>r above their reach : there is ito medium :
IS soon as you have put the liquor above
Lheir reach, by a law that can be carried
nto execution, you have put a stop to
tl&e vice; and till you have done Uiat,
vou have done nothing. I say, my
lords, a law that can be carried into
execution, for a law that cannot, sig-
nifies nothing ; and for this reason, if the
promoter of the Bill gainst gin which is
now .to be repealed, had not been known
to be a very sober man, I should have
suspected him to be an excessive gin*
drinker ; because when all the world were
crying out for a law to put a stop to that
aboniinable vice, he, in order to stifle that
cry, contrived a law which evidently ap-
peared to be inexecutable. And because
that law is found to be ridiculous, there-
fore we are to make another law, equally
ridiculous, for that purpose at least ; for, I
hope, I have shewn, tnat it is impossible
to put a stop to this vice by degrees.
But as a noble lord took occasion to
tell a «tory which he thought for his pur-
pose, I will tell your lordships one wnich
1 think for mine. A very noted gentle-
man, whom many of your lordships may
remember, 1 mean the famous Mr. Web,
who wasj I believe, the founder of our
new sect of Water-drinkers, finding a friend
of his dangerously ill of a complication of
distempers, he U^d. him. Sir, you must
drink no more wine or strong liquors.
Says the other, I have been long accus-
tomed, sir, to such liquors, I must not
l€*ave Uiem off at once, out will try to do
it by degrees : What, sir, replies Mr. Web
directly, if your foot were in the fire,
would you pull it out by degrees ? This,
nay lords, is really our case. The poor of
this nation are in the fire, and now you
talk of palling them oat by degrees. But
what is still worse, it cannot be posit
aaidy muob less proved, that thi^ Bill \
Even the advocates for the Bill only say,*
it is an experiment ; and this experiment,
it seems, we must try, because we must
not try an experiment with the other
House about amending a money Bin.
Thus, it seems, we may try an experiment
with the lives of the people; but we must
try no^ experiment in any thine relating to
the raisins of money. How Uie poor will
like this doctrine, I do not know ; but thia
I will prophesy, that if you do not soon
begin to shew a g^reater regard for the
poor, and for the industry ef the poor,
than you have shewn of fate years, you
will very soon have no money to raise ;
for by your taxes and duties upon thaf
necessaries of life and materials for manu«
facture, you have already made it almost
impossible for a poor man to live com*
fortably by his industry, and now you are
to furnish him with a poison by which he
may speedily and merrily put an end to a
life, which you had before by your duties
and taxes made wretched. This may, in*
deed, increase the number of poor, for wa
shall all be poor ; but, I am sure, it is nol
a way to increase the numbers of our peo»
pie, and much less is it a way to increase
their industry or riches, fironi whence only
the public can raise any revenue.
A noble lord has told us, that if a tax
does but bring in money, it is of no con-
sequence to consider what it is that is tp
be taxed ; but 1 must beg his lordship's
pardon, for there are many things which
never ought to be taxed, let the tax bring
in what money it will. We ought never,
for example, to tax any thing that nature
or custom has made necessary for sup*
porting the industrious poor: we ougnt
never to tax any thine necessary for work*
ing up those manufactures in which we
are rivalled by foreigners ; and to this I
shall add, that for our own credit's sake,
we ought to avoid being mean and sordid
in our method of taxation. The noble
lord was pleased to mention a tax imposed
by Vespasian upon another sort of hquor,
as a justification of what is proposed by this
Bill: that, indeed, was a hquor which
could not be prohibited; but the noble
lord must know, that the taxing of that
liquor is mentioned by all historians, as
the greatest blemish in that reign, not be-
cause the tax was grievous or oppressive,
but because it was mean and soroid ; and
if we should once begin to descend, I do
not know how low we o^ay go ; but if ever
we should impose a Ugt upon that Uquoff^
t#91} 16 GEORGE n.
I^liope our ministers will not think of
Uvving it by way of excise*
For my own part, my lords, I think the
tax now proDOsed much worse than this
tax inventea by Vespasian's Ways and
Means-Men : it is not only mean and sor-
did, but it is vicious to the last degree,
because it will encourage and promote
that yice which propagates every other
mee a human creature can be guilty of;
(herefore if you reject this motion, and
proceed in the Committee, when you
come to the preamble, I shall propose an
Amendment which I think a very neces-
iiary one, for the sake of truth as well aa
religion. In that part of the preamble,
where it is said, ** by and with tne advice
and consent of the Lords spiritual and
temporal/' I hope your lordships will
leave out the wora ** spiritual,'' for it will
bring a scandal upon the religion of the
age to have it recorded in our law4>ooks,
that the reverend bench save their con-
aeot to such a wicked Bui ; and besides,
it is &lse in fiict ; for some of them have
appeared openly and avowedly against it,
and I do not md, that any one of them
will advise or consent to it*
The Earl of iZs^:
My lords; I rise up again to put
your lorduiips in mind of order, and must
insist upon it ; for there will be no end of
your debates, if you do not shew a little
more regard to it. This whole debate has
been contrary to one of the most ancient
rules that have been established for the
regularity <^ your proceedings, and for
preventing any lord's taking up the time
of the House with vain repetitions. The
motion now before you is only for a de«
lav, it has nothmg to do with* the merits,
wnich were fully argued upon the second
reading; and yet eveiy lord that has
apoke against the Bill, has entered into the
merits, and repeated those objections
which wave fully answered when the Bill
waa feed a aecoad time. This has induced
other lords to repeat the answers that
were then made; and thus the debate,
which could not otherwise have lasted any
time, has been drawn out into a monstrous
length.
. r am surprised to hear lords insist so
strenuously upon having time to prove
fads whicn they say are contested, when
lihere is in reahty no fact contested. All
that is contested rebtes to the conse-
yiences of this Bill, or to the effect it may
Iiodi«ee upon the price of the liquor and
JkbafemiheLordt
[tsai
upon the consumption ; as to wbid jew
lordsh^ may argue with aa mttch pex^-
cuity, and judge with as much c^rtamty as
any distiller whatever. How Che Bill may
aroct the price, whether or no it vriU raise
the price to the consumer, is the ciud
thinff in dispute; and I am annaaed there
shoiud be any dispute upon such a subject
That a duty, equal to one third of the prime
cost, should not raise the prioe of the com-
modity, is to me a perfect paradox : if ail
the distillers in the Kingdom shoold affirm
it, I would not believe them. The thing
is impossible, and to call witnesses to prove
an impossibility, would, I am sure, be tak-
ing up your lordships' time to very littk
purpose.
Then, my lords, if this Bill wiU certainly
raise the price, I think it is evident, thai
it will diminish the consumption, or at
least the excessive use ; for suppose there
are some so poor, or who get so little by
their labour, that at the present price thej
can spare to get drunk but once a week ;
suppose there are others that can spore to
get drunk with this liquor twice a week^
others thrice, and sonie every day ; after
the price is raised, as it will be, I believe,
one third, at least, by this Bill, the first
sort of pe<^le can spare to get drunk but
twice in three weel^, the second sort but
four times in three weeks, the third sort
but twice a week, and the fourth but twice
in three days. This then is some good
you have done by your duty this year, and
next year you may add such a new doty
that the first sort of people I have meo-
tioned, shall not be able to spare to get
drunk above once in a month, and ^oa in
proportion for aU the rest ; so that in three
or tour years you majr,. by heaping duty
upon duty, raise the price to sudi a he^bt,
that it will cost a man more to get drunk
with this liquor than to get drank with
common beer, which is, 1 believe, the
farthest you can go towards puttii^ a stop
by duties to the excessive use of qpiriluoas
liquors. You may jeoforce your laws, or
you may make new laws, af^ainst drunken-
ness ; but, I hope, you will not lay sndi
high duties upon home made qpirita, aa to
render them dearer than foreign; Ibr H
any sort of spirit is to be dranl^ and that
you cannot prevent, our home-made spirits
ought to have a preference from the legis-
lature of their country.
I hope your lordships will now compre-
hend what is meant by putting a atop bj
degrees to this vice. Ifyoupatit out or
people's power to get drunk ao often with
09]
M tk« SfiritiUMt lAfun BUL
A. D. ITtS.
tlSM
lese liquors at fermerly, yov put a stop
) the vice ; and this, you see, may be
[>ne by degrees, notwithstanding the
diculous light it was put in by the noble
^rd that spoke last, who has so much wit
ad such a quick hncjy that he has it in
is power to set almost any thing he
leases in a ridiculous light.
As to the Bill now to be repealed, I
lall agree with his lordship in thinking,
lat it is inexecutable, and that I should
ave suspected the author of it, had I not
nown him to be a Tery sober man ; for I
eaaember to have heard, that there' was
nee a motion in the other House, for
?ave to bring in a BiD, for inflicting a
apital punishment upon any man tnat
bould be guUty of a crime too common at
his time as well. as at all former times;
nd that one of the most zealous advocates
>r the motion was a man who was strongly
uspected of being in his heart no enemy
0 the crime, he was for havinff so severely
tunished. This surprised aU that knew
lim, and one of them took the liberty to
isk him, how he came to be so strenuous
i friend to such Bill ? Because, says he,
f the law were once passed, every woman
n England will trust me.
To conclude, my lords, I do not think
ve have the least occasion for any proof:
:hey are not facts but consequences that
vre contested ; and to bring witnesses here
;o prove consequences, would be taking
ip the time of this House to very little
purpose. Therefore, if there were no
langer in the delay, I should be i^nst
the motion ; but as there is danger in the
telay : as any' sort of difficulty or delay
thrown in the way of the supplies for the
ensuing year, may be attenaed with the
most ntal consequences to Europe in
general, as well as to this nation in par-
dcular, I am surprized to hear it insisted
on in such a strenuous manner, when there
18 so little occasion for it. This, my lords,
is my way of thinking, and therdbre, I
cannot fail of being most heartOy against
this motion.
Debate in the Lards on the Spirituaus
Liquors BUL*2 February 22. This Bill
was reed the second time. The question
being put, whether it should be com-
mitted.
* From the Gentleman's Magazine for No-
^«mlier, 1743 : eompilcd by Dr. Johnson.
Lord Heroey rose and said : *
My lords ; though I doubt not but*
the Bill now before us will be promoted in
this House, by the same influence by
which it has been conducted through the
* Trim the Seeker Manuscript.
Feb. S 1 . Spirituous Liquors Bill.
To morrow bein^ sppoioted for the second*
reading of the Bill conosming 8piriNH>ae>
Liquors, lord Hervey mof ed, that three pby-
sicisns, Dr. Mead, Ih, Leigh, and Dr.
Barker, might be summoned to gtte their opi-
nion concerning the drinking these liqnort.
Lord Bathurst said this was needless, because
every lord was satisfied it was pemictouk in the
hi^est degree, and if it was not proved that
this Bill was the best way of restraining them,
he wonld be against it. Lord Lonsdale said^
that lord Bsthorst could not answer for every
lord, and that he wanted to know how ezten*
sire the mischief of these liqaors were. The
bishop of Oxford said, that though they were
owned to be bad in general, some persons to his
knowledge, and therefore perhaps some lords,
thought them good for some sorts of persons,
and would therefore be less against them : and
the physicians couM inform the House whether
these opinions were right Lord Chancellor
said, it was a thing unheard of to ask adfice of
physieians about a Money Bill, beeanse there
was a liquor concerned in it : other money bUle
related to solid food : would you enquire about
th^talsoP Other lords said it was proper to have
all li^ls that were requisite. The eari of Bath
said It was a dangerous nrecedent : these phy-
sicians ind^ might be bad to morrow, but ay
this rule, if a lord was pleased to say there was a
physician at York proper to be consulted, he
most be sent for: that the lords for the BBl
wished as well as any to the health of his ma*
jesty 's subjects, and those against it to the pnb^
lie supplies : that indeed this was not a Money*
Bill. Several other lords spoke.
N. C. 8$.
C. 17 ; of whom bishops of Olocester and
Oxford, who were the only bishops pre-
sent ; lord Gower, lord Romney, 8cc.
The duke of Leeds went away.
Feb. 99. The Bill was read a second time.
Lord Lonsdale, who had moved the day before
that the Commissioners of Excise might attend^
asked several questions of Mr. Barton, who ap-'
'peared and answered, that 9 George ^, which
was sir J. Jekyl's Bill, had been executed se
far as the Commissioners of Bxcise could exe*
cute it ; about the justices of peace he could say
nothing : that the comminriooers appointed su-
pernumerary officers to attend the houses eom- '
1»]ained of: that never more than three tooH'
icences, and onhr they were liable to nay the'
duty of SOf. a gallon : that the dare oFm^r of-
ficers had no elect: that the lower sort bfpeo*'
19D5] 16 GEORGE IL
other; yet I hope iu 'success will be tbtj
difTerenty and that those arts by which iu
oonseouences, however formicuible, have
been nitherto concealed, or by which
those whose business it was to have de-
tected and exposed them, have been in-
pie in general sell these liquors : some few keep
shops without licence : but they are principally
sola in orivate, and by>pltfoes: that the same
care hatn been taken by the oomonsneoevs of
axcise from the 6rst to tne present time.
Hervey. This Bill n^lects every thing'
the legislature ought to encourage, and permits
every thing the legislature ought to forbid. 1
toake a compliment to the muners of it, In
thinking them ignorant of the bad effects of
these liquors, which make men too weak fur la-
boar, too idle Ibr application, too stunid for in-
genuity. 1 shall spMk against them from these
Uiree heads.
1. As they tend to destroy civil polity.
rThen he read from Dr. Davenant what is in
Uie beginning of 0r. Wilson's pamphlet, and
the preamble of 9 Geoige a.] The Liquor
made after this act was called Parliament
Brandy : the diseases which will follow from
the present Bill, if it passes, will be Piarlia-
nMBtary Calentures. [He read also the Re-
presentation of the Justioes» which is in Dr.
Wilson's pamphlet]
a. As tney are pernicious to health. [Then
ba rsad the Representattoo of the Coll^ of
Physkaans to the House of Commons in 1795,
whush see.] '
3. To morals. [Thea he read part of the
bishop of Sarora's sermon to the Westminster
Infirmary.]
Now this Bill neither prevenla the selling
tiiese liqoora cheap, nor puts any laws against
them in execatMNi. It is snppooed that 50,000
bouses will take out Iksenees under it. If they
do not, the revenue will suffer, but the mischief
will he the same, ibr a few houses wiU do as
much harm as nsany. There have been two
inconsistent wavs of speaking on this Bill.
The first was : We cannot stop it : let us get
viooey by it This shocked people : then it
was said, Tbk will stop it. This BiO is only a
cover for mortgaging the Sinking fund here-
after, and the maSk is worse than the bare face
would have been. Indeed this Bill affects the
Sinking fund : for it repeals duties which by 9
Oeofge 8, are thrown to the Aggregate fund.
Batkunt, I agree with almost all the noble
krd hath said: but diaagree in the conclusions
be draws from it. This Bill will diminish the
I one^hird. Can the gin drinkers
next year 500,000^ ? If they drink the
( quantity they must The duty last year
vras 170,000i: 'Am is doubled by this Bill,
Md makes 340,000/. Every distiller must
4auhle the duty he psys. the retailer must
9^*^^i^>^l* The whole Dfopnty of
fmmmMitn will not answer this. There
99fr ^ M tfonaaa of about 54,000/. is the
DOaU in the Lords [1S96
diiced to torn their eyes aside, wiD not be
practised here with the same efficacy,
though they should happen to be attempt-
ed with the saoae ooafidience. I hope that
zeal for the promotion of virtue, and that
regard to public happiness, which has co
dnty, and that will strike off one-thirtf of the
cODaumptioB, and it wiU answer the 1,800,000/.
wanted for the public i
Bishop of Oxford. The question of
mitting depends on two points. Whether these
liquors are pernicious, and whether this Bill re-
strains them sufficiently.
It is allowed they are pemicioos to the health,
industry, and morals of the oeople ; and whtX
is prejudicial to morals extenos ito conueqnencn
to a worid that shall never end. What, then,
will be the operatioB of this Bill in tAAod to
them?
1. It repeals the principal part of a law
0 Geo. S, which had good effects, and might
have had, and may still have better. That biw
shut UD 1,600 great gin-shops with places be-
hind tnem, for stowing drunken men and
women promiscuously : there several thoosssds
lay eveiy night : there ihey taught each other,
and conceited together all ananner of wicked-
ness. This pnbUc drunkenness was naadft worse
than single and private. Now these will open
again. Thev must indeed call themoelscs
'Averns or Ale-houses ; and what is easier than
to call themselves so, and to be licenced as
such? If they sell but a barrel of ale in a
year, they will be ale-houses m the pwpose of
screening themselves, and gin shops to every
badpurpose ia the worid.
The consumption hath been gscaler upon the
whole, but perhaps less in Lnidoo ever anioe
this act. The distillera sent it where they
could in the country. The disease sras drrvea
by it from the heart into the extremities : and
had it been followed thither it mi|;ht have been
extirpated. Bat magistrates and olficen left
off acting. How that came to pasa I know net.
There were, to be sure, iaise mformaiiQas and
perjuries, but not many. But the mob were
sulfered to use all informen, true or fidsr, as
they pleased, and the goveraoient took no
notice. Thus the law became, in a great de-
gree, ineffectual. Still its heavy penalties de-
terred many. And the preamble to this Bill
only says, that there were inconveniences and
difficulties in the execution, as snrdy H "was
worth while to bear them for that end ; and il
was not executed, but doth not say it con\d noL
3. This Bill substitutes 4d. dnty io the com-
mon sort of spirituous liquon instead of 90s^
and 90«. for a licence instead of 502. Tfab is a
great foil, and doth not look like a discooxa^ing
tning. Yet I am fully persuaded the prsyec-
ton of this Bill meant well. But it will be
said, this former act was not executed : this wiBL
Now as to the licences, in nsany cases, I fear it
will not be executed. Great numbers sell, sonsa
but little, many privately: the licence is SQl,
8
S97 J on the Spirituous Liquors
U occasioDB dislinguidied thb assembry,
rill operate now with uDcommon energy,
md prevent the approbation of a Bill, by
rhicn vice is to be made legal, by which
^he fences of subordination are to be
iirown down, and all the order of society.
BiU.
A. D, 1748.
[1298
the peoalty but 10/. : if they think it ten to one
tbey 'shall escape, they will not take one ; and
the prejudice against iaforming and ioformers
irill operate then as it bath done hitherto. And
if they will not take liceoces — I would speak ^
with all respect, but' I most observe— it will be
more for the interest of the revenue to let them
■eU without licences, than not sell at all. Then
when the justices made their Remonstrance,
half the petty constables sold these liquors;
probably do so still : they will conniTe at every
thii^,'tbat Ihey may be connived at. They
therefore, in whatever Bill passes, should be
excluded from selling.
Then as to the doty. The distillers can
make their spirits so much higher than proof
and than they do now, that though they seem
to pay double duty, they will not pay near it.
Besides they can sell for the sake of a larger
▼^•^t Put less gain than they do. And between
both, the compounder, by being able to make
more, and by buying in proportion cheapen
will sell near as cheap as before. There will
indeed remain a penalty of 40f. a gallon on this
increase, by that part of 9 Geo. S, which this
Bill doth not repeal : but that penalty hath been
evaded hitherto, and will be still.
But if this act were executed, what will it do?
The duty will amount to one farthing in half a
pint : drunkenness will be l*4th or l-8th dearer:
they will still have the boasted felicity of get-
ting drunk for \d. And is this Bill a sufficient
remedy f And the question is not whether it
be some, but whether sufficient. There are
now 100,000 hogsheads of first proof made:
these will yield, when lowered with water, and
beated again with miscbierons ingredients,
300,000. This is half a pint a da^ for 800,000
of his majesty's subjects. And ifit be reduced
1 -4th it will still be for 600,000. It is said, the
duty may be raised hereafter. But why not
raise it now ? Gradual increase will only con-
tinue the hankering after it, and put them opon
doing aoy thing desperate to get at it. The
onlv way is to pat it at onee out of their reach,
and out of their thoughts. Besides, as one
.jnehmcholy part of the evil is the destruction of
jottog children, a very small quantity will do
this. Two were killed with each a spoonful, but
last week. [Dr. Wilson.'] And nothing can stop
this mischief, but what will amount to a prohi*
bition. But farther, a higher duty will raise
less rocney : and when the sweet of a lower
duty it felt, and in times of difficulty, to raise
money, it will be hard to get an alteration, es-
peciaUy when the duty is mortgaged. These
may, tod 1 suppose wiU be, a clause of redemp*
tion. But the difficulty of getting another
fund will increase erary 4ay»
[VOL. XII.]
and decency of regular establishments, be
obliterated by universal licentiousness, and
loet in the wild confusions of debauchery ;
of debauchery encouraged by law, and pro^
moted for the support of measures expen-
sive, ridiculous, and unnecessary.
So that here is a better remedy taken away,
a worse substituted, and that perpetuated.
Still it must be owned the Bill subsisting is
not the proper remedy. And what shall be
done ? That must be left to the wisdom of the
administration. They are willing to do tbe
best: and will certainly so do better than this*
For to have one remedy proposed, and that not
thoroughly ,tried« and then despair, and only
think of a method, which is principally, tbougn
not wholly to raise money from the evil, this is
yielding very tamely. Cine better way perhaps
may be mentioned. The worthy person who
framed 9 Geo. 2, designed at first a duty of 2f.
a gallon u|M>n the still -bead ; perhaps that would
have done better than the Bill as it stands now.
It would have needed no informers to execute
it: and so have occasioned no perjury. And
surely some such method might be taken now,
that would put it beyond tbe reach of the lower
people, and yet bring in a revenue to tbe pub-
lic, and at the same time hinder the running of
foreign brandies. I cannot asdertain the quan*
turn of such a duty : but it might surely be
several tiroes the present.
It may be said, that posnbly such a method
will not raise money to tbe government : and
this will. Now I think it much more sure^
that this Bill will do harm, than that it will raise
money: which seems to be suspected by en*
gaging the Sinking fund for a collateral seciju
rity. I think mortgaging that, or any way,
better than one that will waste the strength of
tbe kingdom -as this will.
I shall only add, that no person who shall
vote for thb Bill, can less wish to distress this
government than I do : that no person will be
more glad to see it produce no bad effects, and
ever so many good ones.
Talbot:
CholmondeU^. In attempting to execute 9
Geo. 9, you were almost threatened wiUi a re-
bellion. The operation of tbe present BiU will
be, that he who now gets dmnk twice a day,
will be drunk only four or five times a week.
There are, indeed, 7,000,000 of gallons made of
spirituous liquors in a year: but this is of all
lunds for all uses, not for drinking only.
Chesterfield, Laying only such a duty on
this liquor, is enacting it. Persons w^o sell
under the present law, will be paid for the
risk they run. It will hereafter be sold sq-
cnrely by every ale-house keeper: who buying
it at the first hand, will have it so much cheaper
than the present retailers, who buy it at the 3d
or 4tb, tnat this may more than answer the
difference of one farthing in half a pint. The
calculation of tbe noble lord, who makes this
daty to amount just to 54,000/. a year ;waated
[4 0]
1299] 16 GEORGE IL
A law' of 80 peniicioui a tendency thally
at least, not pass through this House with-
out opposition ; nor shall drunkenness be
establisned among ns without the endea-
lor the intemt of 1,800,000/. is above po-
litical sagacity. >Ve have Tarions funds al-
ready, the Agaregate, the Siaking foad : this
will he called the Drinking fisnd. I appeal to
Ae reverend bench (whidi I ana oorrj to see
so thin : 1 have seen it moch fuller on some
occasions) whether taxing vice be right. Tax
liixtti^, but prohibit vice. Would you lay a
tax upon tlie breach of the ten commaDdmeats T
Haifa pint of gin contains the transgression of
tbetn all ; so you tax it at one farthing. This
Jimior hafh awrfbhed the oM, good natored,
lethargie English drnnkenoess. If, as a ooMe
lord hath said, this lax will lessen ]-Sd of the
eonsumptioo of this liquor ; double it, sad it
will lessen S-Sds. But it may be raised here-
after. And why not nowP How would auch
a preamble as tnis look, ** Whereas fbr oerlain
reasons us thereunto movine, we think it proper,
that the people of England ahould be drunk for
this year.*' This nepenthe, however agreeable
to the people otherwise, when tendered to them
from the hands it now comes from, will lose its
Tirtoe, and have a contrary efleet We are
enervating our people, when we are in such a
condition, that if the vulgar prejudice doth not
prove true, that one Englishman can beat three
Frenchmen, Lord have mercy upon us! At
Ibis rate we must always have meroenafy
troops : which I hope is no aipimeot for tlie
Bill : I am sure it hath no weight with me.
The present Bill hath a juggling rehition to the
Sinking fund : and in a year or two most be
TSpealM. It is a Money Bill : but not a Sup-
ply Bill: because the money is not appro-
pnsted.
Carteret, Not a word of what a noble lord
rCholinondelev] hath said for the Bill hath
been answered : though the Bill hath been at-
tacked with wit, and morals and piety called in
to th«r aid. You cannot do what you will In
a free country. And God forbid an armed
force should be used to put laws in execution.
Clsoses proposed for exempting some thioffs in
9 Oeo. e, were rejected: and if it could baVe
been executed so as to suppress all these things,
It would have done harm. The duties now
laid are a restraint, not a licence.
Lofudale. The Bill appears to be drawn by a
distiller, [ft was actually drawn by the direc-
tion of one J&ent, a great distiller.] Therefore
I shall lay before the House the increase of
that trade from the end of Charles 9's reign,
from ten years to ten years:
gallons.
In 1684 -
•
- 537,000
1694 -
-
- 948,000
1704 -
-
- 1,373,000
1714 -
•
- 1^,000,000
1794 -
-
- 3,580,000
1734 -
-
- 4,947.000
U4S -
-
- 7,160,000
DOaiemOe Lords [ISOO
voor of one Toiee9%t least, to wftMioldits
prepress ; for I now dechtre that I oppose
the connnitment of this Bill, and thatl am
determined to continue my opposition to
In the last 8 years much ntiore halli been
distiiled than m 10 before. Sir J. JekyH ssvivd
op a spirit in the nalioo asatnat 1
which was not to be resisted. Bot bin aaetfaoi
The preieot price of mah
\ilSd.w20d, i would pi
gin is about 18tf. or SOtf. I wouM nropeae lav-
mg at. 6d, a gaHoa new doty, wbioh will mJa
the dnty near 8«. in all. llieo it wiH adl fbr
lav.
lab
far
4i. 6W.,' wbioh priee will prevent fopeign bran-
dies. Aad thositwtllbeaeldata|^.n^[DBr-
tern: which will remedy anob of the evil,
though perhaps it shonkl still be higbcr. It is
aotonous, that the jostioes do not sjelpiHi tbt
laws, fnd will net eaeoute this Bill. It ioa BS
whidi will increase the mischief. Now per-
sons must in a great mcasors Mnk alaae : aad
nobody will drink so roach that way. But thii
Bill opens 50,000 houses to sit to it m
And so it will bespread over the
that is drunk with ale, eanaot drink
week. But he that is dmnk with m, magi
drink again the next dav. Mow, nil the ine-
beepera are against ain: but thk Bill w31 make
IttheirinterssttobeforiL It k from the ooea-
try, that London is supplied with tBhahjtsBH,
and by allowing this liquor, yea wiU tsar o^
your people by the roots.
Newcastle. I am iadiaed So wiah the datj
bed been higher: but that asay ba d&om ben^
afler.
Bishop of Senna. The distiller now gnias st
least 50 per cent, and so can aAsti to pay tho
dnty, and sell as cheap as ^erer. There wen
goodeflfecufromOGeo. a: Nobody ceaM oeasc
hither before, without seeiag people ly^
drunk in their way, and honsea tiill of them
drinking. There were indeed tnmnlia: hot it
was this liquor made them tomnkwNaa: and U
you pass tliis Bill, 1 hope yon will sepeal the
kiot Act at tiK same time.
Bathiirtt.
IdmedaU. Rastnin the et il i
this BiU, that you asay be anre lo doiti
The money wanted may be raised -by the duty
which I bare proposed. For if the Atill
of 6 millions of gallons be presented hf it, i
only 1 million be distilled for whalosaaM and
necessary uses, 9«. M a gallon npon that wil
much more than do. Howerer, still 1st Ihs
Sinking fVind be-a collateral aeoarity.
1/oy. 1 am for repealing 9 Geo. a, becaoae it
hath taught the people, that they need not obey
the legislatttre.
Question, Whether the Bill be i
Guntents - - 59 Not Contents - - 38
Proxies - < 9S Prosiea . . . • 16
8a
All the bishAps prenot, who
64
Caalsr*
iaoi3
OH tie l^drUuotu Ligmrt B3L
A.D. 17iS.
[law
It In all the stejiM by which the forms of our
House make it necessary that h should
pass before it can become a law.
Nor do I speak, my lords, on this occa-
sioDy with that distrust and mental hesita*
tion which are both natural and decent,
when questions are dubious, when proba-
bility seems to be almost equally divided,
when truth appears to hover between two
parties, and oy turns to &vour every
speaker; when specious arguments are
urged on both sides, and the number of
circumstances to be collected, and of re-
lations to be adjusted, is so great, that an
exact and indubitable decision is scarcely
to be attained by human reason. I do not,
my lords, now speak with the diffidetice of
enquiry, or the uncertainty of conjecture,
nor imagme Uiat I am now examining a
political expedient of which the success
can only be perfectly known by expe-
rience, and ot which therefore no man
can absolutely determine, whether it will
be useful or pernicious, or a metaphysical
difficulty which may be discussed for ever
without being decided.
In considering this Bill, my lords, 1 pro-
ceed upon stated and invariable principles.
I have no &cts to examine but such as to
the last degree ^re notorious, such as have
been experienced every hour, since the
existence of society ; and shall appeal not
to transitory opinions, or casual assertions^
but to the laws of all civilized nations, and
to the determinations of every man whose
wisdom or virtue have given him a claim
to regard. .
All the decrees of all the leffislators of
the earth, or the de<;)arations or wise meoy
all the observations which nature furnishes, ^
and all the examples whidi historv affords,
concur in condemning this Bill before us
as a Bill injurious to society, destructive of
Erivate virtue, and by consequence of pub-
c happiness, detrimental to the human
bury, Rochester, 8arum, Exeter, Hereford,
Glocester, Oxford, St. Ataph, Norwich, Cbl«
cheater, voted against the eommitmeiit: and
gave the voles of those against it, whose proxies
uiey were. The bishop of London withdrew
hit proxy from the bishop of £xeter a day or
two before, lest the bishop of Exeler might
happen fo vote for the Bill ) and restored it to
him, when he found he had voted asainst the
commitment, that it might be made use of
against the Bill afterwards. St. Davids did not
sUy till the end uf the debate. The duke of
Leipds was not there, llie Duke, lord Coven-
try and brd Carlisle, voted for the commit-
ment. Lonia Pcmbniket LymiDgUw, Ron*
My,aguosiit,
species, and therefore such as ought ta be
rejected in that assembly to which thi^
care of the nation is committed ; that a^
sembly which ought to meet only for tb^
benefit of mankind, and of which the reso*
lutions ought to have no other end thaa
the suppression of those vices by which n
the happiness of life is obstructed or im*
paired.
The Bill now before you, my lords, is
fundamentally wrong, as it is formed upon
a hateful project of increasing the con*
sumption of spirituous liquors, and conse-
quently of promoting drunkenness among
a people reproached already for it through*
out the whole world* It contains such a
cimcatenation of enormities, teems with so*
vast a number of mischiefs, and therefore
produces, in those minds that attend to its
nature, and pursue its consequences, such
endless variety of arguments against it,
that the memory is perplexed, the imagi-
nation crowded, and utterance overbur-
thened. Before any one of its pernicious
eflfects is fully dilated a thousana other an*
pear, the hydra still shopts out new head^
and every head vomits out new poison to
infect society, and lay the nation deflate.
I am therefore at a loss, my lords, not
how to raise arguments against this Bil^
which cannot be read or mentioned without
furnishing Uiem by thousands ; but how to
methodise those that occur to me, and
under what heads to ran^ my thoughtii,
that I may pursue my design without con-
fusion, that! may understand myself and
be understood by your lordships*
A multitude of consideraUons are ob-
vious, all of importance sufficient to claim
attention, and to outweigh the advantages
proposed by this hatefm Bill, but which
cannot all be mentioned, or at least not
with that exactness which they deserve:
I shall therefore confine myself at present
to three considerations, and shall entreat
the attention of your lordships, while I
examine the Bill now before us, with re-
gard to its influence on the health and
morals of the peoi>le, the arguments by
which it has been hitherto supported, and
the effects which it will have on the sink-
iogfundi
The first head, my lords, is so copious^
that I find myself ver)' little relieved by the
division which 1 have made* The moral
arguments, though separated from those
which are either political or temporary, are
sufficient to overpower the strongest rei^
son, and overflow the most extensive com*
prehcnsioa*
1303] 16 GEORGE IL
It is not secessary, I suppose, to shoir
that health of body is a blessmg, that the
duties of life in which the greatest part of
the world is employed, require vigour and
activity, and that to want strength of limbs
and to want the necessary supports of na-
ture, are to the lower classes of mankind
the same. I need not observe to your lord-
ships, whose legislative character obliges
you to consider the general concatenation
of society, that all Uie advantages which
high stations or large possessions can con-
fer, are derived from tlie labours of the
poor ; that to the plough and the anvil, the
loom and the quarry, pride is indebt^ for
Its magnificence, luxury for its dainties,
and delicacy for its ease. A very little
^consideration will be sufficient to show,
that the lowest orders of mankind supply
commerce with manufacturers, navigation
with mariners, and war, with soldiers;
that thej constitute the strength and
riches of every nation ; and that, thoueh
Ihey generally move only by superior di-
rection, they are the immediate support of
the community ; and that without their
concurrence, policy would project in vain,
wisdom would end in idle speculation, and
the determinations of this assembly would
be empty sounds.
It is therefore, my lords, of the utmost
importance, that all practices should be
suppressed by which the lower orders of
the people are enfeebled and enervated;
for if they should be no longer able to bear
fatigues, or hardships, if any epidemical
weakness of body should be diffused among
them, our power must be at an end, our
mines would be an useless treasure, and
would no longer afford us either the wea-
pons of war, or the ornaments of domestic
elegance ; we should no longer give law to
mankind by our naval power, nor send out
armies to nght for the liberty of distant
nations. We should no longer supply the
markets of the continent with our com-
modities, or share in all the advantages
which nature has bestowed upon distant
countries ; for all these, my lords, are the
effects of indigent industry, and mechanic
labour.
All these blessings or conveniences are
procured by that strength of body, which
nature has bestowed upon the natives of
this country, who have hitherto been re-
mar^ably robust and hardy, able to sup-
port long fatigues, and to contend with
the inderaency of rigorous climates, the
violence of storms, and the turbulence of
waves, and who have therefore extended
Debate in the Lords,
[ISM
their conquests with uncommon loccas,
and been equally adapted to the t(dt of
trade and or war^ and have ezoeDed those
who endeavoured to rival them eidier in
the praise of workmanship or of nlour.
But, my lords, if the use of spiritnous li«
quors be encouraged,, their dSHgeotx^
which can only be supported bj health,
will quickly languish ; every day wiU di-
minish the numbers of the manufecturen,
and by consequence augment the price of
labour; those who continue to follow tfadr
employments, will be partly enervated bj
corruption, and partly made wanton by
the plenty which the advancement of their
wages will afford them, and partly by the
knowledge that no degree of n^^ligeDcc
will deprive them of that employment in
which there will be none to succeed them.
All our commodities, therefore, will be
wrought with less care and at a higher
price, and therefore will be rejected at fo*
reign markets in ^vour of those which
other nations will exhibit of more valoe,
and yet at a lower rate.
No sooner, my lords, wfll this Bill make
drunkenness unexpensiveand commodious,
no sooner will shops be opened in every
comer of thestreets, in every petty-village,
and in every obscure cellar for the retail of
these liquors, than the wcnrk-rooms will be
forsaken, when the artificer has by the la-
bour of a small part of the day procored
what will be sufficient to intoxicate him
for the remaining hours ; for he will hold
it ridiculous to waste any part of hb life
in superfluous diligence, and will readOj
assign to merriment and frolics that time
which he now spends in useful occupa-
tions.
But such is the quality of these liquors
that he will not long be able to divide hs
life between labour and debauchery, he
win soon find himself disabled bv hb ex-
cesses from the prosecution of hb work,
and those shops which were before abao-
doned for the sake of pleasure, will sooa
be made desolate by sickness ; thoie who
were before idle, will become diseased, ud
either perish by untimely deaths, or languisb
in misery and want, an useless burtbeato
the public
Nor, my lords, will the nation only
suffisr by the deduction d such numbers
from useful employments, but by the ad-
dition of great multitudes to thoae wiio
must be supported by the charity of the
public The manufiactarer, who, by the
use of spirituous liqaois,. weakens hb Ms
or destroys his health, at oncetakesta
JOS]
Oft the SpirUmus Liquors BUL
A. D. 1748.
[1S08
le comnunit^jr to which he belonn, a
lember by wmch the common stock was
icreased, and by leaving a hdpless familv
ehind him, increases tne burthen which
le common stock roust necessarily sup-
ort. And the trader or husbandman is
bilged to pay mote towards the mainte-
ance of the poor* by the same accident
rhicfa diminishes his trade or his harvest,
rhich takes away part of the assistance
rhich he receivea* and raises the price of
he rest«
That these liquors, my lords, liquors of
rhich the strength is heightened by dis*
illatioD, have a natural tendency to in-
iame the blood, to consume the vital
uicea, destroy the force of the vessels,
:ontract the nerves, and weaken the
>inew8, that thev not only disorder the
nind for a time, but by a frequent use pre*
npitate old age, exasperate diseases, and
nultiply and increase all the infirmities to
irhich the body of man is liable, is gene*
rally known to all whose regard to their
own heftlth, or study to preserve that of
others, has at any time engaged them in
»uch enquiries, and would have been more
clearly explained to your lordships, had the
learned physicians been suffered to have
given their opinions on this subject, as was
yesterday proposed.
>Vhy that proposal was rejected, my
lords, for what reason, in the discussion of
so important a question, any kind of evi-
dence was refused, posterity will find it
difficult to explain, without imputing to
your' lordships such motives as, I hope,
will never operate in this assembly. It
will be, perhaps, thought that the danger
was generallv known, though not acknow-
ledged ; and that those who resolved to
pass the Bill, had no other care than to
obstruct such infonnation as might prove
to mankind, that they were incited by
other designs than that of promoting the
public gocSi.
It is not, however, necessary that any
▼ery curious enouiries should be made for
the discovery of that which, indeed, can-
not be concealed, and which every man has
an opportunity of remarking that passes
through the streets.
So public, Soenormous, and so pernicious
has been this dreadful method of debau-
diery, that ithas excited and baffled the di-
^gence of the magistrates, who have en-
deavoured to stop itt progress or hinder
its efiects* They found their efforts inrf-
fectual, and their diliaence not only not
ttefid to the publiC} but dangerous to
themselves. Thar quickly experienced,
my lords, the fdly of those laws which
punish crimes instead of preventing them;
they found that legal authority had little
influence, when opposed to the madness
of multitudes mtoxicated with spirits, and
that the voice of justice was but rery little
heard amidst the clamours of riot mid
drunkenness.
We live, my lords, in a nation, wbera
the effects of strong, liquors have been for
a long time too well known ; we know
that they produce in almost every one e
high opinion of his own merit; that they
blow toe latent sparks of pride into flame,
and, therefore, aestroy all voluntary sub-
mission ; they put an end to subordination,
and raise every man to an equality with
his master, or his governor. Tney repress
all that awe b]r which men are restrained
within the limits of their proper spheres,
and incite every man to press upon him
that stands before him, that stands in the
place of which that sudden elevation of
neart, which drunkenness bestows, makes
him think himself more worthy.
Pride, my lords, is the parent, and in-
trepidity the fosterer of resentment ; for
this reason, men are almost always in-
clined, in their debauches, to quarros and
to bloodshed ; they think more highly of
their own merit, and, therefore, more rea-
dily oondude theinselves injured; they
are wholly divested of fear, msensiUe of
present dianger, superior to all authority,
and, therefore, thoughtless of future pu-
nishment; and what Uien can hinder them
from expressing their resentment with the
most offensive fireedom, or pursuing their
revenge with the most daring violence?
Thus, my lords, are forgotten diiq>ute8
often revived, and after having been long
reconciled, are at last terminated by blows;
thus are lives destroyed upon the most
trifling occasions, upon provocations often
imaginary, upon chimerical points of ho-
nour, where he who gave the offence, per-
haps without design, supports it only be-
cause he has given it ; and he who re-
sents it, pursues his resentment only be-
cause he will not acknowledge his mistake.
Thus are lives lost, my lords, at a time,
when those who set them to hazard, are
without consciousness of their value, with-
out sense of the laws which they violate,
and without regard to any motives but
the immediate influence of rage and ma-
lice.
When we consider, my lords, these ef-
fects of drunkeaness, it can be no sidqect
1807] 16 GEORGE JL
of wmidtr, that tke auigistr&te fads hiin^*
ielf everborne by a multitude united
i^mt him, and united by general de-
bmicherjr. Government, m^ lords, sub-
■ieta upon reverence, and wnat reverence
can be paid to the laws, by a crovrd, of
which every man is exalted by the ea*
Gbantment of thoee intoxicatinff spirits, to
the independence of a monarch, the wis*
dona of a legislator, and the inti«pidity of
a hero? When every man thioKs ^ose
laws oppressive that oppose the executtoa
of Jbis present intentions, and considers
every magistrate as his persecutor and
enemy?
Laws, my lords, suppose reason; for
who ever attempted to restrain beasts but
by force? And, therefore, those tKat pro-
pose the promotion of public happiness,
which can be produced only by an exact
conformity to good laws, ought to endea*
TOUT to preserve what may properlv be
called the public reason; they oueht to
|irevent a general deprivation of the racul-
ties of thoM whose benefit is intended, and
whose obedience is required ; they ought
to take care that the laws may be known,
ibr how else can they be observed ? and
bow can they be known, or at least, how
can th«y be remembered in the heats of
drunkenness?
That the laws are universally neslected
and defied among the lower dass (» man-
kind, among those whose want of the
lights of knowledge and instruction, makes
positive and compulsory dnrections more
necessary fbr the regulation of their con-
duct, is apparent from the Representation
of the Mi^istrateB, in which the general
disorders of this ^reat city, the open wick-
edness, the darmg insmenoe, and un-
bounded licentiousness of the common
people, is very justly described.
Their wickedness and insolence, my
lords, is indeed such, that order is sdmost
at an end, rank no longer confers respect,
nor does dignity afford security. The
same confidence produces insults and rob-
beries, and that insensibility with which
debauchery arms the mind equally against
fear and pity, frequently aggravates the
guilt ofrobbery with greater crimes; those
who are so unhappy as to fall into the
hands of thieves, nested by spirits into
madmen, seldom escape without suffieriog
grearer cruelties than the loss of money.
That the use of these poisonous draughts
ouiekly debilitates the limbs, and destroys
tne strength of the body; however this
qaality may impair our manufiKStures,
JMaiemtkeLordi [ISM
weaken our armies, and diDaaidli our oooi-
merce ; however it may reduce oar fleeH
to an empty Aow, and enable our enemb
to. triumph in the field, or our livak ts
supplant us in the marked can scarcely,
my lords, come under consideration, wba
we reflect how dAaucheiy operates upon
the morals.
It is happy, my lords, Aat those vbo
are inclined to mischief, are disi^ded in a
short time from executing their intentioDi,
by the same causes which excite then;
that they are c^liged to stop in the csreer
of their primes, that they are preserred
from the hand of the executi6ner by tte
liquor which exposes them to it, and thst
patsies either disable them from pumuog
their villanies, or fevers put an end to
their lives.
Itis hi^py, my lords, that what is tfaa
vident, cannot be lasting ; that those livti
which are employed in misdiief, are geoe-
rally short; and that since it is the q^itj
of this malignant, liquor to cormpt the
ipind, it likewise destroys the body.
But this effisct, my lords, is not coostnt
or regular; men sometimes continQefbr
many years to supply the expenoes of
drunkenness by ranina, and to exaspecate
the fury of rapine by drunkenness. And,
therefore, though there could be any aae
so regardless of the happiness of maiudDd,
as to look, widiout ooncera, upon than
who hurry themselves to the grave with
poison, he may yet be incited bf ha ova
mterest to prevent the progress of tia
practice, a practice which tends to the
sobversH>n of aH order, and the destruc-
tion of all happiness.
It is well known, my lords, thst poUic
happiness must be on a stated praportkia
to pubUc virtue ; that mutual truit is the
cement of society, and that no man can be
trusted but as he is reputed hone^ To
promote trust, my loros, is the sppuent
tendency of all laws. When the ties of
morality are enforced by penal sancdoa^
men are more afraid to violate them, tad
therefore, are trusted with lees danger;
but when they no longer fear the la^,
they are to be restrained only by their
consciences ; and if neither law nor con-
science has any influence upon their coo-
duct, they are only a herd of wild heasts,
let loose to prey upon each other, sod
every roan will inflict or suffer psio» as ^
meeU with one stronger or weaker thaa
himself.
Thus, mjr lords, will all authority oea^
property inil beoome dangenras to hia
Off the Spirituous Liquors BUt. A. D. 174S. [ISIO
09]
itpotMHet k, and confusimi win oTer-
read the whole commimity ; nor can it
eatily concemdy b^ the most extensiye
piprdDenmon, how rar the mischiefi may
Ktad» or where the chain of destmctiTe
Qgequences will end.
If we consider our fleet or our army» my
[ds, it is apparent, that neither obeaience
IT fidelity can btf expected from men
»0B whom iJl the ties of morality and aU
e sanctions of law have lost weir in-
lence; they will mutiny without fear,
d desert without scruple, and, lilce wild
iMts, wiD, upon the least prorocation,
m upon those by whom they ought to
ijKnremed*
Jot drunkenness, my lords, not only
inipts men, bv taking away the sense of
ose restraints oy which they are gene-
ts kept in awe, and withheld from the
netnition of villanies, but by super-
IdiDg the temptations of poverty, tempta*
MIS not easiiy to be resisted, ev^ by
ose whose eyes are open to the conse*
lences of their actions, and which, there-
re, will certainly prevail over those whose
iprdbensions are laid asleep, and who
ifer extend their views beyond the gra-
kation of the present moment* '
Drunkenness, my lords, is the parent of
lenos ; for no man can apply himself to
a busmess of his trade, either while he
drinking, or when lie is drunk. Fart of
k time is spent in jollity, and |Mirt in im«
dlity; wnen he is amidst his compa-
oas ne IS too gay to think of the conse»
mces of neriecting his employment ;
id when he has overburthened nimself
'A liquor, he is too feeble and too stupid
ftllowit.
Poverty, my lords, is die ofbpring of
kness, as idleness of drunkenness ; the
vttkard's work is litde and his expences
e great; and, therefore, he must soon
e his fiunily distressed, and his substance
dttced to nothing : and surely, my lords,
needs not puch sagacity to wscover
iMt will be the consequenqe of poverty
nduced by vice.
It is not to be expected, my lords, that
man thus eormpted will be warned by
e approach of misery, that he will recof-
ct his understanding, and awaken his at-
ntion ; that he wiU apply himself to his
■iness with new diligence, endeavour to
cover, by an increase of application,
bat he has lost by inattention, and make
le remembrance of his former vices, and
le difficulties and diseases which th^
ou^ upon him, an incitement to his
industry, a confirmadon of his resolution,
and a support to his virtue.
That this is, indeed, posrible, I do not
intend to deny, but the bare possilnlity ot
an event so ciesirable, is the utmost that ,
can be admitted ; for it can scarcely be
expected, that tfny man should be able to
break through all the obstacles that will
obstruct his return, to honesty and wisdom ;
his companions will endeavour toupontinae
the infatuating amusements which have so
lon^ deluded him ; hu appetite will assist
theur solicitations ; the aesire of present
ease, by which all mankind are sometimes
led asiae from virtue, will operate with un-
usual strength ; since, to retrieve his mis-
conduct, he must not only deny himself
the pleasure which he has so long in-
dcdged, but must bear the full view of his
distress, from which he wfll naturally turn
aside his eyes. The general difficulty of
reformation will incline him to seek for
ease by any other means, and to delay that
amendment which he knows to be nec^
sary, from hour to hoar, and fromnlay to
day, till his resolutions are too much
wakened to prove of any effect, and h»
habits confirmed beyond opposition.
At length, necessity, immediate neces-
sity, presses upon him ; his family is made
clamorous by want, and his calls of nature
and of luxury are equally importunate; be
has now lost his credit in tne woiid, and
none will employ him, because none will
trust him : or employment cannot imme-
diately be, perhaps, obtained ; because his
place lias for a long time been supplied by
others. And, even if he could obtain a re-
admission to his former business, his wants
are now too great and too pressing to be
supplied by the slow methods of regular
industry ; ne must repair his losses by
more efficacious expedients, and must find
some meUiods of acquisition, by which the
importunity of his creditors may be satis-
fied.
Industry is now, b^ long habits of idle-
ness, become almost impracticable ; his at- ,
tention having been long amused by pleas-
ing objects, and dissipated by jollity and
merriment, is not readily recallea to a tasik
which is unpleasing, because it is enjoined ;
and his limbs enervated by hot and strong
liquors, liquors of the most pernicious
kind, cannot support the fatigues necessary
in the practice of his trade ; what was onc/e
wholesome exercise is now insupportable
fatigue ; and he has not now time to ha-
bituate himself by degrees to that applica-
tion which he has intermitted, that labour
ISll] 16 GEORGE IL
which he has dittued, or those trU which
he has forgotten*
In this state, my lords, he easily per-
suades himself, that his condition is des-
perate, that no legal methods will relieve
nim ; and that, therefore, he has nothing
ko hope but from the efforts of despair.
These tho^^ts are quickly confirmed by
his companions, whom the same miscon-
duct has reduced to the same distress, and
who have already tried the pleasures of be-
ing supported by the labour of others.
They do not fail to explain to him the
possibility of sudden affluence, and at
worst to celebrate the satisfaction of short-
lived merriment. He, therefore, engages
with them in their nocturnal expeditions,
mn association of wickedness is formed, and
that man, who, before he tasted this in-
fatuating liquor, contributed every day, by
honest bbour, to the happiness or conve-
nience of life, who supported his &mily in
decent plenty, and was nimself at ease, be-
comes at once miserable and wicked ; is
detested as a nuisance by the community,
and hunted by the officers ef justice ; nor
has mankind any thing now to 'wish or
hope with regard to him, but that by his
speedy destruction, the security of the
roads may be restored, and the tranquillity
of the night be set free from the alarms of
robbery and murder.
These, my lords, are the consequences
which necessarily ensue from the use of
those pernicious, those infatuating spirits,
which have justly alarmed every man whom
pleasure or sloth has not whoUy engrossed,
and who has ever looked upon the various
scenes of life with that attention which
their importance demands.
Amons these, «my lords, the clergy have
distinguiuied tliemselves by a zealous op-
position to this growing evil, and have
warned their hearers with the warmest
concern against the misery and wickedness
which must always be the attendants or
the followers of drunkenness. One among
them*, whose merit has raised him
to a seat in this august assembly, and
whose instructions are enforced oy the
sanctity of his life, in a very pathetical
manner laments that so much art and skill
have been used of late years to make
drunkenness the cheapest of all vices.
This remark is in his excellent discourse
on the infirmary of this city, where he has
* Dr. Thomu Sherlock, biflfaop of Salis-
bury, in his Sermon fi>r the benefit of the
Westmiiuter lafimMry.
Debate in the Lords [ISh
observed with too much justneH, Aattk
lowest of the people are, therefore, mti
verudly infected with this vice^ and thai
necessity itself is become luxurious.
Here his lordship read the Representi
tion of the College of Physicians in t)i
year 17S6, and the following preamble t
the act of the 9th of his present majesty
vis. ' * Whereas the drinking of spirituoi
liquors or strong waters is become ver
common, especially among the people <
lower and inferior rank, the constant ss
excessive use whereof tends greatly to tb
destruction of their healths, rendering the
unfit for useful labour and business, di
bauching their morals, and inciting thei
to perpetrate all vices ; and the SD coasi
quences of the excessive use of such Uqooi
are not confined to the present generation!
but extend to future ages, and tend to th
devastation and ruin of this kingdom : fc
remedy thereof may it please your mos
excellent majesty, &cJ Hien his lord
ship went on to the following eScct :
My lords ; many other authoritie
might be produced, and some othen I hsn
now in my hand ; but Uie recital of thee
would waste the day to no purpose : fc
surely it is not necessary to show by a loc
deduction of authorities the guilt of drunk
enness, or to prove that it weakens th
body, or that it depraves the tnind, th^ i
makes mankind too feeble for labour^ to
indolent for application, too stupid for ia
genuity, and too daring for the peace o
society.
This, surely, my lords, is therefore i
vice, which ousht with the utmost caze t
be discouraged by those whose birth oi
station has conferred upon them the pro
vince of watching over the public hsppi
ness; and which surely no prospect o
present advantage, no arguments of poll
tical convenience, will prevail li^on thi
House to promote.
That the natural and evident -tendency
of this Bill is the propagation of drflnken
ness, cannot be deni^, when it is coosi
dered, that it will increase the temptatiori
to it, by making that liquor, whicn is tht
favourite of the common people, more
common, by multiplying the |^aces s)
which it is sold, so that none can want si
opportunity of yielding to any sudden im
pulse of his appetite, which wdl solicit Ida
more powerfully and more incessantly ai
they are more mquently and more ^&I}
gratified.
In defence of a Bill like this^ ay
313]
OH the SpirUuoui Liquors BiU.
nds, it might be expected, that at least,
lany specious argumenti should be ofiered.
t maj be justlj hoped that no man will
Ise up in opposition to all laws of heaven
nd earth, to the wisdom of all legislators,
ad the experience of every human being,
without having formed such a train of ar-
;ument8 as will not easily be disconcerted,
T having formed at least such a chain of
ophistry as cannot be broken but with
iimculty. ^
And yet, my lords, when I consider
trhat has been offered by all who have hi-
herto appeared either in public assem-
>lies, or m private conversation, as advo-
:ates for this Bill, I can scarcely believe,
hat they perceive themselves any force in
heir own arguments ; and am inclined to
conclude, that they speak only to avoid
he imputation of being able to say nothing
n defence of tibeir own scheme ; that their
bope is not to convince by their reasons,
^ut to overpower by their numbers : that
ihey are themselves influenced not by rea-
son but by necessity, and that the^
Doly encourage luxury, because money is
to be raised for the execution of their
schemes ; and they imagine, that the peo*
pie wiU pay more cheerfully for liberty to
indulge their appetites, than for any oUier
enjoyment.
The arguments which have been ofered,
my lords, in vindication of this Bill, or at
least which I have hitherto heard, are only
two, and those two so unhf4>pily asso-
dated, that they destroy each other :
whatever shall be urged to enforce the
second, must in the same proportion in-
validate the first; and whoever shall as-
sert, that the first is true, must admit that
the second is false.
These positions, m^ lords, the unlucky
positions which are laid down by the de-
lepders of this pernicious Bill are; that it
wOl supply the necessities of the govern-
ment with a very laree standing revenue,
on the credit of which, strengthened by
the additional security of the sinking
ftmd, a sum will be advanced sufficient to
support the expences of a foreign war;
and that at the same time it will lessen the
consumption of the liquors from whence
this duty is to arise.
By what arts of political ratiocination
these propositions are to be reconciled, 1
tm not able to discover. It appears evi-
denty my lords, that large revenues can
ooly be raised by the sale of large quan-
tities; and that larger quantities will in
reality be sold, as the price is little or no-
[VOL. XII. ]
A. D. 174S. [1314
thing raised, and the venden are greatly
increased.
If this irin not be the effect, my lords,
and if this effect is not expected, why is
this Bill proposed as sufficient to raise the
immense sums which our present exigen-
cies require? Can duties bepaidwi£out
consumption of the commodity on which
they are' laid ? and is there any other use
of spirituous liquors than that of drinking
them ?
Siirely, my lords, it is not expected^
that any arguments should be admitted in
this House without examination ; and yet
it might be justly imagined, that this asser-
tion could only be offered in full confidenca
of an implicit reception, and this tenet bo
proposea only to those who had resigned
their understandb^ to the dictates m the
ministry ; for it is nnplied m this position,
that the plenty of a commodity dimi-
nishes the demand for it; and that the
more freely it is sold, the less it will be
bought. It implies, that men will lay vo*
lunury restrmnts upon themselves, in pro-
portion as they are indulged b^ their go-
vernors; and that all prohibitory laws
tend to the promotion of the practice!
which they condemn: it implies, that a
stop can only be put to fornication by in*
creasing the number of prostitutes, and
that theft is only to be restrained by leav-
ing your doors open.
I am, for mV part, convinced, that
drunkards as well as thieves are made by
opportunity; and that no man will deny
himself what he desires, merely because
it is allowed him by the laws of his coun-
try.
This, my lords, is so evident, that I shall
no lonser dwell upon .the assertion, that
the unbounded liberty of retidling spurits
will make spirits less used in the nation ;
but shall examine the second argument,
and consider how far it is possible or pro-
per to raise supplies by a tax upon drunxen-
ness.
Tli^t lar^ sinns will be raised by the
BiO, to which the consent of your lord-
ships is now required, I can reaoily admit,
because the consumption of spirits will
certainly be sreater, and the licence!
taken for retaiung them so numerous, that
a much lower duty than is proposed wilt
amount yearly to a very large sum ; for if
the felicity of drunkenness can be more
cheaply obtained by buying spirits than ale,
when both are to be found at the same
place, it is easy to see which will be pre-
ferred; this argument, therefore, is irre-
[4P]
ISlfi} 16 GEORGE IL
fregable, and may be urged in fiirour of
the Bill without danpec of confutation.
But, my lord«, it u the buaineM of go-
vernors not so much to drain the purses,
as to regulate the morab of the people ;
not only to raise taxes, but to levy tnem
in such a numner, as nuiy be least burthen*
■onie, and to apply them to purposes
which may be most useful ; not' to raise
money by corrupting the nation, that it
may be spent m enslavmg it.
It has been mentioned by a very cele-
brated writer,* as a rational practice in the
exercise of government, to tax such com-
modities as were abused to the increase of
vice, that vice may be discouraged by
being made more expensive; and there*
fore the community in time be set free
from it ; but the tax which is now pro-
posed, my lords, is of a different kind; it
ts a tax laid upon vice, indeed^ but it is to
;u:lse from the licences granted to wickccl-
pess, and its consequences must be the in-
.crease of debauchery, not the restraint*
It is a tax which will be readily paid, be-
cause it will be little felt ; and because it
will be little felt, it is hoped, that multi-
tudes will subiect themselves to it.
The act which is now to be repealed,
was indeed of a different nature, though
ferhap not free from very just objections,
t had tliis advantage, at least, that so far
as it was put in execution, it obstructed
drunkenness ; nor has the examination of
the officers of excise discovered any im-
perfection in the law ; for it has only failed,
because it was timorously or negligently
executed.
Why it was not vigorously and diligently
enforced, I have never yet been cu>le to
discover. If the magistrates were threaten-
ed by the populace, the necessity of such
laws was more plainly proved ; for what
justifies the severity of coercion but the
prevalence of the crime i and wliat may
not be feared from crowds intoxicated
with spirits, whose insolence and fury is
^ready sudi, that they dare to threaten
the government by which they are de-
barred from the use of them ?
Thi», my lords, is a reflection that ought
not to be passed slightly over. The na-
ture of our coristitution, happy as it is,
4kU8t be acknowledged to produce this
iucoovenience, that it inclines tlie common
people to turbulence and sedition; tlie
nature of ^irituous liquors is such, that
, * Dr. O&veaaot io his fisssy on Ways and
Meaos.
J
DeiaieiMtkeLordB
they inflame theae <Iiqp08itiofi^ i^
too much predomioant ; and jet tk
bulenceof the people is made a im
Ucenain^ dninkenneaa, and alioviof^
out limitation the sale ofthoteipR
which that turibulence most be cen
increaaed*
It may be perhaps urged (forio^
know not what else can be decril|
leged), that there is a necessity ofn
m(mey, that no other method can bc
vented, and that therefore tbii ou*k
to be opposed.
I know, my lords, that ministers ^
rally consider, as the test of eidi 14
loyalty, the readiness with which bed
curs with them in their schemes for m
money ; and that they thinkall ono^
to these schemes which are ami
for the supjiort of the govenuneot, the
feet of a crinunal disa&ctioQ ; thaiM
always think it a sufficient vindicadoH
any law, that it will bring in very lifl
sums; and that they think no mo»»'
pernicious, nor laws dangerous, bj visa
the revenue is not impaired.
If government was instituted oolj a
raise monev, these ministerial scheoie^'
policy would be without exceptioo: «r
could it be denied, that the present micir
ters show themselves by this exped^
uncommon masten of their prores»M&
But the end of government is only to p
mote virtue, of which happiness is the cxr
sequence ; and therefore to support p
vernment by propaotiug vice, istoaif
port it by means which destroy the e&i
for which it was originally established, ao^
for which its continuance is to be dasii^
If money, therefore, cannot be nisw
but by tlus Bill, if the expeoces of the
government cannot be defrayed but br
corrupting the morals of the people* i
shall without scruple declare, that okh^J
ought not to be raised, nor the dcsff^j^
the government supported, because tiic
people caxi suffer noUiing from the m^
of public measures, or even from the fj*
solution of the govemment itself, vhv^
will be equally to be dreaded or avwfl^^
with an universal depravity of moral^^
a general decay of corporeal vigour- i«^®
the insolence of a foreign cooqueror caa
inflict nothing more severe than ««
diseases which debauchery ^fodnc^ij^
can any thing be feared from ^^^
of anarchy more dangerous or ojW^ ^**^
raitous than the madness of ^*'*^,» -f
the miseries which mutt eosae to eaca di-
vidual from universal wickedafitf»
BIT]
on the- SpirUuot» Liquors Bill*
A. D. 174S.
[1SI8
' Such, my lords, is the expedient by
ffaich we are now about to raise the sup-
dies for the present ^ear; and such is the
lew method of taxation which the sagacity
if our ministers has luckily discovered. A
oieign war is to be supported by the de-
itniction of our people at home, and the
«?enue of the government to be improved
ly the decay of our manufactures. We
ire to owe henceforward our power to epi-
lemical diseases, our wealth to the declen-
ton of our commerce, and our security to
jot and to tumult.
There is yet another consideration, my
ords, whicn ouffht well to be regarded,
lefore we suffer tnis Bill to pass. Many
aiTB are merely experimental, and have
leen made, not because the legislature
kooghtthem indbputably proper, but be-
Muise no "better could at that time be
ilruck out, and because the arguments in
heir favour appeared stronger than those
ttainst them, or because tne questions to
iHiiGh they related were so darlc and intri-
cate, that nothing was to be determined
vith certainty^ and no oth^r method could
lierefore be followed, but that of making
the first attempts at hazard, and correcting
these errors, or supplying these ddTects
ifhich might hereaner be discovered by
diose lights which time should afford.
Though I am &r from thinking, my
lor&, that the question relating to the ef-
liN^ of this law, is either doubtful cr ob-
leure; though I am certain that the
nesns of reforming the vice which its ad-
rocates pretend it is designed to prevent,
ire obvious and easy ; yet I should have
koped, that the projectors of such a scheme
rould have allowed at least the uncer-
thmty of the salutary effecttf expected
horn it, and would therefore have made
Nxne provision for the repeal of it, when it
diould be found to fail,
t But, my lords, our ministers appear to
lunre thought it sufficient to endear tnem to
their country, an4 immortalize their names,
iiat they have invented a new method of
raising money, and seem to have very little
Kgara to Bny part of the art of govern-
ment; they will at least in their own opi-
nion have deserved applause, if they leave
khe puMic revenue greater, by whatever
diminution of the public virtue.
. They have therefore, my lords, wisely
eentrtved a necessity of continuing this
hw, whatever may be its consemiences,
abd howfttal soever its abuses ; for they
■ot only mortgage the duties u^on spirits
br the piesept supply i but idbstitute them
in the place of another security given to
the Bank by the Pot-act ; and therefore,
since it will not be easy to form another
tax of equal produce, we can have very
little hope that this will be remitted.
There will be indeed only one method of
setting the nation free from the calamities
whidi this law will bring upon it ; and as I
doubt not but that method will at last be
followed, it win certainly deserve the at-
tention of your lordships, as the third con-
sideration to which, in our debates on this
Bill, particular regard ought to be paid.
Thiat the licence of drunkenness, and
the unlimited consumption of spirituous
liauors, will fill the whole kingdom with
idleness, diseases, riots, and confusion,
cannot be doubted ; nor can it be ques-^
tioned, but that in a very short time par-
liament will be crowded with petitions
from all the trading bodies in the kingdom,
for the regulation of the workmen and ser-
vants, for the extinction of turbulence and
riot, and for the removal of irresistible
temptations to idleness and fraud. These
representations maybe for a time neglect-
ed, but must soon or late be heard ; the
ministers wDl be obliged to repeal this law,.
for the same reason that induced them to
propose it. Idleness and sickness will im-
pair our manufactures^ and the diminution
of our trade will lessen tlie revenue.
They will then, my lords, find that their
scheme, with whatever prospects of profit
it may now flatter them, was formed with
no extensive views ; and that it was only
the expedient of political avarice, ivbicn
sacrificed a greater distant advantage to
the immediate satisfaction of present gain.
They will find, that they have corrupted
the people without obtaining any advan-
tage by their crime, and that they must
have recourse to some new contrivance by
which their own errors may be retrieved.
In this distress, my lords, they can only
do what indeed they now seem 16 desi^ ;
they can only repeal this act by charging
the debt, which it has enabled them to con-
tract, upon the sinking fund, upon that
sacred deposit which was for a time sup-
posed unalienable, and from which arose
all the hopes that were sometimes formed
by the nation, of being delivered from that
load of imposts, which it cannot mucb
longer support. ^ They can only ^ive secu-
rity for tnis new debt, by disabling us for
ever from paying the former.
The Bill now before us, my lords, will
therefore be equally pernicious in its imt
mediate and remoter consequences; it will
1319]
16 GEOBOE II.
DOOe an the Lard9
Ltsao
first corrupt the peopk, and destroy our
trade, and afterwards intercept that fund
which is apprcmnated to Uie most useful
and desirable or all political purposes, the
gradual alleviation of the public debt.
I hope» my lords, that a Bill- of this por-
tentous kind, a Bill big with innumerable
mischiefs, and without one beneficial ten-
dency, will be rejected b^ this House,
without the form of commilment; that it
will not be the subject of a debate amongst
us, whether we shall consent to poison m
nation; and that instead of enquiring,
whether the measures which are now pur-
sued bv the ministry ou|;ht to be support-
ed at tne expence of virtue, tranquillity,
and trade, we should examine, whether they
are not such as ought to be <^posed for
their own sake, even without the consider-
ation of the immense sums which they ap-
Iparently demand.
I am indeed of opinion, tluU the success
isf the present schemes will not be of any
benefit to the nation, and beliere likewise,
that there is very little prospect of success.
I am at least convinced, that no advantage
can countervail the mischiefs of this de-
testable Bill ; which ther^ore 1 shall stea-
dily oppose, though I have already dwelt
upon this subject perhaps too long ; yet bs
I speak only trom an unprejudiced regard
to the pubhc, I hope if any new arguments
shall be attempted, that I shall be allowed
the liberty of makiog a reply.
Lord Bathunt .*
My lords; I doubt not but the
I noble lord has delivered on this occasioa
his real sentiments, and that in his opinion
the happiness of our country, the regard
^vhich ought always to be paia to the pro-
motion of virtue, require that this Bill
should be rejected. 1 am far from sus-
pecting, that such an i^>pearanoe of zeal
can conceal any private views, or that such
pathetic exclamatioi\s can proceed but
tirom a mind really affected with honest
anxiety.
This anxiety, my lords, I shall endea-
vour to dissipate before it has been com-
municated to others ; for I think it no less
the duty of every man who approves the
public measures, to vindicate them firom
misrepresentation, than of him to whom
they appear pernicious or danfferpus, to
warn his fellow-subjects of that danger.
I, my lords, am one of those wSq are
convinced, that the Bill now before us,
vhich has been censured as funda^
mentally wrong, is io reidily ftuada-
mentally right ; that the end which m vto-
posed by it is just, and the meaaa waedi
are prescribed in it will accoeaidifih ^
purpose for which they were coatrived.
The end of this Bill, my lords, ia to&
minish the consumption of distilled apinu,
to restrain the populace of these Viagdonw
from a liouor which, when used ia excess,
has a malignity to the last degree dange-
rous, whi<£ at once inebriates sund poisons,
impairs the force of the understanding;, and
destroys the vigour of the body ; and to
attain this, I think it absolutely right to
lay a tax upon these liquors.
Of the vice of drunkenness^ nj loids,
no man has a stronger abliorreaee ikm
myself; of the pernicious eODsequeaces of
these liquors, which are now cdueAy used
by the common people, no man Is more
fully convinced, and therefote none csa
more zealously wish, that drankenaess
may be suppressed, and distilled apiiks
witJiheld from the people.
The disorders mentioned by tiie aoUe
lord, are undoubtedly the conseqisenoei of
the present use of these liquins, bat Aae
are not its worst efiects. The oifandaEs
a^nst the law, may by the law be some*
times redainied, and at other times cut
off; nor can these practices, iMMrever in-
jurious to particular persons, in any grest
degree impair the general h^pineas. The
worst effects, therefore, of the use of
spirits, are that kHeness and extravagance
which it has introduced amcmg the coas-
mon people, by which our eanaaeroe BHMt
be obstructed, and our present ricliessDd
plent]^ every day duninished.
This pernicious practice, my lords, is
disseminated farther than could be rea>
sonid^ly bdieved by those wboae intereit
has not incited, or curiosii^ indoced disai
to enquire into the i^raotice of tlia difieroit
classes of men. It is weUknoini^dattbe
fimaers have been hitherto distmguished
by the virtues of fnigtf i^^. tempersaoe^
and industry ; that tkcy labenied hard,
and soent little; and were therefore iust^
considered as an innoe^it ai|d imeM psrt
of the conununity , whose employment sod
parsimony preserved them in a great mea*
sure from the g^wral infection of vice
which spread its influence amaag da
traders and mea of estates^
But even this abstemieiM cdsas of men,
my lords^ have of kte relaxed their fia-
gality, and siifiered themsdhca to hs
tempted by this infatuatiaf^ liyer; aocii
aa)r thing now more Qoawma Shan to find
ift m those hauamia vhiok ais^a finr jms
321]
on the SjrirUuous IJfUors Bill.
A. D. 1748.
[iSftl
was libe liig^ieit pitch of luxury lo
rblch thejr atpim, and to see those liours
irasted in intozicatuig entertainments,
vhich were formerlj dedicated wholly to
he care of their farmSy and the improve-
nent of their fortunes.
Thus, my lords, it appears, that the cor-
ijption is become universal, and therefore
;hat acnne remedy ought to be attempted ;
f)or can I conceive any measures more
coRsinlent with justice, or jnore likdy to
produce the end intended by them, than
those which are now offered to your con-
sideration, by which the liquor wiU be
made dearer, too dear to be lavishly
drank by those who are in most ganger of
using it to excess; and the number of
those who retail it will be diminished by the
necessity of taking a licence, and of renew-
ing them every year at the same ex|>ence*
The inefficacy, my lords, of violent
methods, and the impossibility of a total
deprivation of any 'enjoyment which the
people have by custom made fiuniliar and
dear to them, sufficiently appears from the
event of the law which is now to be re-
pealed. It is well known, that by that
law, the use of spirituous, liquors was pro-
hibited to the common pe(q[>le ; that re-
tailers were deterred from vending them,
by the utmost encouragement that cov\i
be given to informers; and that dis-
coveries were incited by every art that
could be practised, and offenders punished
tiith the utmost rigour.
Yet what was the effect, my lords, of aD
this diligence and vigour? A general
panic suppressed, for a few weeks, the
practice or selling the prohibited liouors ;
out in a very short time, necessity rorced
some, who had nothing to lose, to return
to their former trade; these were suAred
sometimes to escape, because nothing was
to be gained by mforming against Uiem,
and others were encouraged by their ex-
ample to imitate tfwm, tfioodh with more
secrecy and oaution ; of those, indeed,
many were punished, but many more
escaped, and such sis were fined oflen
found thw profit gieater than the loss.
The prospect of raising money by de-
tecting their praodoes, incited many to
turn intemiaion islo a trade; aadtheih<-
eiiity with whieh the crime was to be
proved, et^Bourafsd some to gratify th«r
malioe by. perjuiy, and others di«r ava-
Me ; so that the multitude of informations
grievance, ai^d the ma-
oomplakMd that the
aottola exeouted^
The perforise of infhrmers were now so
flagrant and common, that the people
thought all informations malicious ; or at
least, thinking themselves oppressed by
the lajw, they looked upon every man that
promoted its execution, as their enemy ;
and therefore now began to declare war
against informers, many of whom they
treated with great cruelty, and some they
murdered in the streets.
By their obstinacy they at last wearied
the magistrates, and by their violence they
intimidated those who might be inclined
to make discoveries ; so that the law, how-
ever just might be the intention with
which it was enacted, or however seasona-
ble the methods prescribed by it, has been
now for some years totally disused ; nor
has any one been punished for the viola-
tion of it, because no man has dared to
offer informations. Even the vigilance of
the magistrates has been oUigdl to con-
nive at these offences, nor has any man
been found willing to engage in a task, at
once odious and endless, or to punish of-
fences which every day multiolied, and of
which the whole body of tne common
people, a body very formidable when
united, was universally engaffed.
The practice, therefore, of vending an^
of drinkinff distilled spirits, has prevailed
for some time without opposition ; nor can
any man enter a tavern or an ale-house, in
which they will be denied him, or walk
along the streets without bemg incited to
drink them at every corner ; they have
been sold for several years, with no less
openness and security than any odier
commodity; and whoever walks in this
great city, will find his way very fre*
quontly obstructed by those who are
selling these pernicious liquors to the
greedy populace, or by those who have
drank them till they are unable to move.
But the strongest proof of the inefficacy
of the late law, and conseouently of the
necessity of another, whicn may not be
so easily eluded or so violently resisted, is
given by the papers which fie upon the
table. Firom these it appears tnat the
Quantity of spirits Asfilled, has increased
n-om year to year to the present time;
and, therefore, that drunkenness is be-
come more prevalent, and the reasons for
repressing it more urgent than ever be-
fore.
Let us therefore calmly consider, my
lords, what can* in this exwenoe be done t
diat die people shouU be allowed to poison
themsehres and their posterity without re«
1S2SJ 16 GEOKGE IL
alnMnt, it certainly not the mfent of any
good man ; and tlierefore, we are now to
consider how it may be prevented* That
the people are infected with Uie vice of
drunKennesSy that th^ debauch them-
adves chiefly with spirituous liquors, and
that those liquors ar^ in a high degree
pemiciouB» is confessed both by those who
oppose the Bill, and those who defend it ;
but with this advantage on .the part oi
those that defepd it, that they only pro-
pose a probable method of reforming
the abuses which they deplore. 1 know
that the warm resentment which some
lords have on former occasions expressed
against the disorders which distilled liquors
are supposed to produce, may naturally
incline them to wish, that they were to-
tally prohibited, and that thia * liquid
fire^' as it has been termed, were to be
extinguished for ever.
Whether such wishes are not more ar-
dent than rational; whether their zeal
against the abuse of things, indiffisrent in
themselves, has not, as luis often hiq)pen-
ed in other cases, hurried them into an
indiscreet censure of the lawful use, I shall
not now enquire ; because it is superflu-
ous to dispute about the pr^riety of mea-
sures, of which the possibility may be just-
ly questioned.
This last act, my lords, was of this kind ;
the duties established by it were so high,
that they wholly debarred the lower classes
of the people from the liquor on which
they were laid; and, therefore, it was
found by a very short experience, that it
was impossible to preserve it from viola-
tion ; that there would be no end of pu-
nishing those who oflkided against it ; and
that severity produced rather compassion
than terror. Those who have su&red the
pex)alties were considered as persons under
unjust persecution, whom every one was
ofaligeu by the ties of humani^ to enoou- '
rase, reward, and protect; ana those who
intormed agidnst tnem, or encouraged in-
formations, were detested as the oppres-
sors of the .people. The kw had, indeed,
this efifect, that it debarred, at least for a
short time, all those from retailing spirits
who lived in reputation ; and, t&refore,
encouraged others to vend them in private
places, where they were more likely to be '
drank to excess.
Having, therefore, made trial of violent
^4 severe methods, and had an (^portu-
^ity.^^btaiiung a full conviction of their
bimcacy, it is surely proper to profit by
•ur cxperiience, by that experience which
DAaUinikeLwri$
ivm
shows tts that the use of distilled fiqwi
undtf its present disconraffemeots, bn
every year increased; an^ therefbic,
proves at once the unprofitribJeneiai of the
mw now in force, and the neoeaaky d
some other by which the same puxpo^s
nunr bemore certainly promoted.
The reformation of a vice so prevalent,
must be slow and gradual ; for it is not to
be hoped, that the whole bulk of the peopte
will at once be divested of their labits;
and therefore it will be rational to endea-
vour not wholly to debar them from any
thing in which, however absurdly, they
place their hairiness, but to make ti4
attainment of it more and more difli-
cult, that they may inaeasibly remit
their ardour, and cease from tl»dr pur-
suit.
This, my lords, is proposed In the pie-
sent Bill, which by the duties whidi sre
to be laid upon distilled spirits wiQ laisa
tlie price a third part, and as it is teasooa-
ble to eiq[iect, hmder a third part of the
consumption ; for it is observed, that those
who drink them set no limits to their ex-
cesses, but indulge their aimetites to the
utmost of their power; if oe, therefore,
who used to spend three-peoee a day in
spirits, can now have no more-thaa could
formerly be bouj^t for two-pence, be
must necessarily content himself with ob^y
two-thirds of the quantity which he hat
hitherto drank; and therefore must bj
force, though perhaps not by indinatioo,
be less intemperate.
It is not to be doubted, my lords, bat
that spirits will, by this additional dutf,
be made one third part dearer ; for it has
been hitherto observed, that retailers levy
i;^n the buyer twice the duty that is paxi
to the government, as is every dar appa-
rent in other commodities; so that the
yearly quantity of spirits whidi is usoally
distilled, will cost SOCMXXML more than be-
fore, a tax which, I suppose, those w]m>
are charged with this.kind of ddiaachery
will not be suppctod able to pay, and
which yet must be paid by tnem, on-
less they will be -content with a less
quantity.
That spirits will now be sold in^verj
public*house, of whatever denoaoination,
tm been, I believe, lastly asserted; but
the assertion has not been properly urged
as an aigument against.the BdL One of
the circumstances which has eontribitted
to the enoroGious abuse of these liqiMB% has
been the practios of vetaSing them in ob-
scure places by persona widiout *
525]
en the SpiriUunu Liquors BUI.
A. D. 1748.
[iaf6
id ^ithiHit money ; who tberafore nei-
ter feared penalties nor infiuny, and of*
^nded againal law and decency with equal
{curity. Bat when the cheapneM of li-
snces shall make it convenient for every
lan that pleases to retail spirits in a pub-
c manner^ they will be generally drank
I houses visited bv pubUc officers, ob-
^rved by the neighbouring inhabitants,
nd frequented by persons of morals and
Lvility, who will always endeavour to re*
;raiD all enormous excesses, and oblige
le naasten of the houses to pay some
^gard to' the laws. Those whose appe-
tes are too importunate to be restrained,
lay now gratify them without being
>nipted to.enter mto houaes of infiuny, or
lingliog with beggars, or thieves, or pro-
igates; and th^efore, though the use
f spirits should continue the same, its
onsequepces will be less fatal, since they
ia3r be had without the necesiity of asso>
iatiDg with wiokedoess.
But, my lords, it is not improbable,
lat by this Bill the number of retailers,
t least in this city, where they are most
emicious, may be lessened. It is well
iiown, that the reason for which they are
>ld in cellars, -and in the streets, is the
anger of retailing them in other places ;
dd that if they were generally sold by
lose who could procure the best of each
>rt, these petty traders would be imme*
lately unobne; for it is reasonable to
a^ine, my lords, that they buy the
lieapest liquors, and sell them at the
Barest rate.
When, therefore, reputable houses shall
e opened for the sale of these liouors,
ecency will resinun some, and pruoence
ill hinder others, from endsingering their
ealth by purchasing those liquors which
re offered in the street, and from hazard*
ig their morals, or perhaps their 4ives,
Y drinkmg to. excess in obscure places.
It is likewise to be remembered, my
irds, that many of those who now poison
leir countrymen with petty shops of de-
iuchery, are not able to purchase a li-
snce, even at the cheap rate at whidi it
now proposed, and tnat therefore they
ill be restcained from their trade by a
gal inability; for it is not, my lords, to
s imagined, that they will be defended
ith equal aeal by. the pq>ulace, when the
quora may be bad without their assist*
ace, nor will ioformation be equally in*
imous, when it is not the act only of
rofligates who pursue the practice of it
i a trade, but of the proper officers of
every pbce, incited by the hwful venden
of the same conunodities, or of the venders
themselves, who will now be numerous
enough to protect each other, and whom
their common interest will incite against
clandestine dealers.
The price of licenoes, therefore, appears
tome very happily adjusted; had it been
greater there would not have been a suf-*
ficient number of lawful retailers to put a
stop to clandestine sellers; and if it was
lower, every petty dealer in this commo-
dity might, by pretending to keep an ale*
houae, continue the practice of affording
an harbour to thieves^ and of propagating
debauchery.
Thus, mj lords, it appears to me, that
the Bill will lessen the consumption of
these destructive spirits^ certainly in a
great degree, by raising the price, and
probably by transferring the trade of sell*
mff them into more reputable hands.
Wnat more can be done by human care or
industry I do not conceive. To prohibit
the use of them is impossible, to raise tfa^
price of them to the same height with that
of foreign spirits, is indeed practkad>le,
but sur^ at this time no eligible method ;
for so general is this kind of debauchery^
that no degree of expence would entirely
suppress it ; and as foreign spirits, if they
were to be sold at the same price, would
always be preferred to our own, we should
only send into other nations that money
which now circulates among ourselves, and
impoverish the people without reforming
them.
The regulation provided by the BtD be*
fore us is, therefore, in my opinion, the
most likely method fbr recovering the an*,
cient industry and sobriety oi the commoa
people ; and, my lords, I shall tt>prove it,.
till experience has shown it to oe defec*
tive. I shall approve it not with a view of.
obtaining or securing the favour of any of
those who may be thought to interest
themselves in its success, but because I
find some new law for this purpose indis*
pensibly neceuary, and believe that no
better can be contrived.
We are now, my lords, to contend with
the passions df sill the common people.
We are endeavouring to reform a vice al-
most universal; a vice which, however
destructive, is^now no longer reproachloL
We have tried the force of violent metfiods
and found them unsuecessfiil ; we are now
therefore to treat the vulcar as children,
with a kind of artful inmilgence, and to
take from them secretly and by degrees
1JB7] 16 fiEORGB IL
viiil cannol be whoUy denied Amut, wilk*
out exafperatiDg theni aimott to rebel-
lion*
lliis it the fint attempt, and bT tfaii, if
one tbird of the oonMwnption be oiniaieb-
ed, we may next year double the duty,
and by aiieir augmentation of the price
take away another third, and what will
then be uank, will peiliapsby the strictest
nioralisu be aUoweato be rattier benefidal
than hurtful*
By this gradual procedure, we shall
give those, who have aocustoned them-
selves to this liouor, time to reclaim their
uppetites, and those that live by distiNmg,
opportunities of engaging in some odier
emplojrment; we shall remove the dis-
temper of the nublic without any painful
remedies, and snail reform the people in-
iensiUy without exasperating or perse-
outing them.
The Bishop of Of^if .•
Mj lords; as I am not yet con-
vinced of the expedience of the Bfll now
before us, nor can discover any reason for
believing, that the advantages will coun-
tervail the misdiieft which it will produce,
I think it my duty to declare, that I shall
oppose it as destructive to virtue, and con-
trary to the inviolable rules of religion.
It apnears to me, my lords, that the li-
berty or sclltn|; liijuors which are allowed
to be equally mjunous to health and vir-
tue, will by this law become general and
l^oimdlen; and I can discover no reaasn
for doubting, that the purchasers will be
multiplied by increasing the numbers of
the venders ; and the increase of the sale of
distiHed qfwrits, and the propagation of dl
kinds of wickedness, are the same; I must
condode that Bill to be destructive to the
public by which the sale of spirits will be
mcrsased.
It has been urged diat other more vigo-
rous OMthods have been tried, and that
they are now to be laid aside, because ex-
pencBce hasdiown diem to )>e inefibctual,
because the people unanimously asserted
the privilege of debauchery, opposed the
eiceoution of justice, and pursued those
with the atmost malice Aat oiered mfor^
i riiould diink, my lords, that govern-
ment appreaduBg to iu dissdution, that
was fmittced to submit its decrees to their
judgment vho are chiefly accused of the
abase of tiiese liquors 9 for surely when
the lowest, the most corrupt pact of the
l^oopie, bive ebteoaed such a degf«e of in-
DOaieintkelMrii {im
fluence, as to diolate to the legislsluiL
those laws by iriuch tbey escpeot to be go-
verned, all subordinatioii is at no end.
This, my lords, I hope I diaU never lee
the state of my own country: 1 hope i
shdl never see the govenuneot wichod
authority to enforce obedienoe to the laws,
nor have I, indeed, seen any such weak-
neu on this occasion : the oppoeition that
was made, and the discontent that was ex-
dted, were no greater dum might be rea-
sonable expected, iriiea the vioe whidi was
to be reformed was so enomously predo-
minant, nor was the effisct of the law less
than any one wlio foresaw such oppoaitiflB
flsight reasonably have oonoeiyed.
In this city amne there wore, before the
ooamencement of that law. 1,500 large
shops, m which no other tmde was carried
on than that of retailing theae pemicioas
liquors; in whidi no temptation to ddwo-
ohcry was foi^otten ; and, what cannot be
mentioned without horror, back rooms
and secret places were contrived for recqv
tades of those who had drank tin they had
lost thdr reason and thdr limbe ; there
they were crowded together till tfiey re-
eovered strength suffident to go away, or
drink more.
These pestilential shops, these store-
houses of mischief, will, upon the encou-
ragement which Mm ]^w will give them^ be
set open again ; new invitadoha will be
hung out to catch the eves of paasengers.
who will anin foe enticed with promises of
bdng nia& dniak for a penny, and that
universal debauchery and astonishittg H-
centiousness which gave oocadcm to the
former act wHl return upon us.
It is to little purpose, my lords, that the
licences for selling distilled spirits are to
be granted only to Aose who profess to
keep hoioes for the sale of other liquors,
since nothing will be more easy thm to
elude this part of the law. Whoever b
indined to open a shop for the r«ta3 of
spirits, may take a licence for aeUing de ;
and the sale of one barrel of more inno-
cent liquors in a year will entitle to dis-
pense poison with impunity, and to coe-
tribute without controul to the comiptioa
of mankind.
It is confessed, that since &ia law wss
made, these liquors have been add only at
comers of the streets, in petty diopa, and
in private cdlars ; and tharefore it must be
dlowed, that if the oonsmnption has in-
creased, it has at least increased less than if
the free and open sale had been permitted ;
for the necessity of secrecy is always a r^
laeo]
on iki Spirikum tAquon BUL
A. D. 1748.
[I3S0
Ununt, tnd erety restmint mwrt in some
l^jrree obstnict any practice, nnce those
diat foUow it under restraint would pursue
It more Tigorouslyy if that restraint were
taken away; and those that are now totally
bjndeled, would at least be more strongly
tempted by greater liberty ; and where the
aptation is more powerful, more will pro-
y be oTercome by it.
But, my lords, however the law may in
this crowded d^ have been eluded and
fefied, however drunkenness may here
lunre been nrotected by the insolence
iriiich it proauces, and crimes liave been
lieltered oy the multitudes of ofienders, I
im informed, that in parts less populous,
he efficacy of the late act never was de*
lied; and that it has in many parts rescued
lie people from the miseries of debau-
Bheiy, and only failed in others by the
le^ligence of those to whom the execution
if It was committed.
Negligently and fiuntly as it was eze-
nited, it did in eflfect hmder many from
Mirstting this destructive kind of trade;
tad even in the metropolis itself, ahnost a
0tal stop was for a time put to the use of
pints ; and had the magistrates perform-
id their duty with stea£ness and resolu-
ion, it is probable, that no plea would
lave arisen m &vour of this Bill from the
nefficacy ofthelast
I cannot indeed deny, that the multi-
nde of fidse informers fumiriied the ma-
[istrates with a very specious pretence
or relaxing their vigikmce; but it was
mly, my lords, a specious pretence, not a
warrantable reason; for the same diligence
faould have been used to punish false in-
orraers as clandestine retailers ; the tra-
lers in poison and in perjury should have
leen both pursued with mcessant vigour,
he sword of justice should have been
hrawn against them, nor should it have
teen laid aside^ till either species of wick-
dness had been exterminated.
In the execution of this, as ti other pe*
tfd laws, my lords, it will be always possi*
fe for the judge to be misled by ndse tes**
■monies; and therefore the argument
rhich false informations furnish may be
ised against every other law, where in-
brmation is encouraged. Yet, my lords,
i has been long the practice of this nation
oiocite criminals to detect each other;
ind when any enormous crime is commit-
ed, to 'proclaim at once pardon andre-
rards to him that shall discover his accom-
ilices. This, my lords, is an apparent
emptation to perjury ; and yet no incon^
[VOL. XII.]
venienceB have arisen from it, that ca»
reasonably induce us to lay it aside.
Perjury may in the execution of this law
be detectied by the same means a* on other
occasions; and whenever it is detected^
ought to be ri^^orously punished; and I
doubt not but m a riiort time the ^ difB«>
culties* and < inconveniences' which nm
asserted in die preamble of this Bill to
have * attended the puttine the late act
in execution,' would speedily have vanish-,
ed; thenundier of dehnouents would have
been every day lessenea, and the virtue
and industry oi^the nation would have been
restored.
It is not indeed asserted, that the exe-
cution of the late act was impossible, but
that it was attended with difficulties ; and
when, my lords, was any design of great
importance effected without difficulties?.
It IS difficult, without doubt, to restrain a
nation from vice, and, to reform a nation
already corrupted, is still more difficult.
But as both, however difficult, are necessa-
ry, it is the duty of government to endea^
vour them, till it shall appear that no en-
deavours can succeed.
For my part, my lords, I am not easily
persuaded to believe that remissness will
succeed,* where assiduity has failed ; and
therefore if it be true, as is supposed in
the preamble, that the former act was in-
e&ctual by any defbcts in itself, I cannon
conceive that this will operate with great-
er force. I cannot imagine that appetites
will be weakened by lessening the danger
of gratifying them, or that men who will
break down the fences of the law to pos-
sess themselves of what long habits have,
in their opinion, made necessary to them,
will neglect it, merely because it is laid in
their way.
With regard to this act, my lords, it is
to be enquired, whether it is likely to be
executed with more diligence than the for-
mer, and whether the same obstacles may
not equally obstruct the execution of both;
The great ' difficulty' of the former me-
thod, a method certaunly in itself reason-
able and efficacious, arose from the necessi-
ty of receiving inftrmalions from the mean*
est and most p^Bkate of ^le neople, who
were oflen temPEi to lay hold of the op-
portunitiea which that law put into their/
nands, of relieving their wanla^or gratify*
ing their resentment ; and very frequently
intimidated the innocent . by threats of ac-
cusations, which were not easily to be con-
futed. They were therefore equally dan«
gerous to those that obeyed the act, and
1S913 16 OEORGB 11.
to thoie that difngtided it; tat dMf
•ometimes pat Aeir tiireatt in esaartMin,
a raised protecatknit agaiatt dioie who
eaauBitted no odier criiae Aaa that
of refiiiiiig to bribe tham to iilenea.
An abuM lo notoriooi, iay loid^ pfo-
doced a general detettation of all infonn-
arii or at least conciDied with other cauaea
to produce it; and that detestatioQ bo*
caaneso prevalent in the minds of the po*
palace, that at last it becanse to the high-
est d^ree dangerous to attempt the con*
Tiction of those, who, in the most open
and contemptooua manner, ererj daj vio*
lated the laws of their country ; mid in
time the letailers, trusting to the pcotec*
tion of the people, laid aode all cautions,
at least in tkis great dty, and prosecuted
their fonner practice with the utmost seen-
This, my lor^, was the chiefs difficul-
ty' and * inconvenience^ hitherto discover^
M in the law which is now to be repealed.
Thus was its execution obstructed, and
the proYisions enacted by it made inef-
fectuaL This defect therefore ought to
be chiefly regarded in any new regnktions.
But what securities, my lords, are pro-,
tided against the same evil in the Bill be-
fore us r Or why should we imagine that
this law will be executed with less oppo-
sition than the last ? The informers will
undoubtedly be of the same dass as be-
Ibre; they are still to be incited by a re<^
ward ; and therefore it may be reasonably
feared, that they will act upon die same
motives, and be persecuted with the same
fiiry.
To obviate this inconvenienoe appears
to me very easy, by converting the duty
upon licences, to a large duty upon the
liquors to be paid by the distiller; the
payment of which wiu be carefully exact-
ed by proper officeis, who, dioum their
employment is not very reputable, pur-
sue it at least without an^r peiaonal dan-
ger; and who inform their superiors of
any attempts to defraud the revenue, with-
out being censured as officious or revenge
liil, and therefore are without any terron
to hinder them frei% their duty.
It has been ^pserted, J||peed, that the
price of a licence is nAr so smaU, that
none who are inclined to deal in spirits,
wiU neglect ao secure themselves from pu-
nishment and vexation by procuring it^
and that no man will subject hlaoself to
the malice of a profligate, by carrying on
an iUidt trade, which the annual expenoe
tftwen^shiUbgs WiU make legal
If tUi «««nent be just, flsy loida, aad
to.ttej|feitotpiitofthbaaseBibly,IW-
lieve^ it wift appear very pkuaible, hsw
wiU thia law leasn the ponsHiiH»tinii of
distilMlimm; It is confeaaed that it
1 wiU hffldar ndiody from
and it baa bean fbnad by < ,
nothing caa restrain the people from buy-
ing than, but such lawa aa " *
from being sekL
This plea, therefore^ by
objectioD to a piuticular
streagdien the great aigoment i
tenor of ^ BiO^ that inatead of 1
it will incveaae the conaumptton of those
liquofs wUdk aie allowed to be dgat rucri w
to tha peo|de, to enfeeble the body, and
to vitiate the mind, and coauw^tten^ la
imfNur the strength and oatnasegce of the
nation, and to destnqr the faappiaeas ad
security of life*
That the cheapness of licesnoea will in*
dace BsnltitudeB to boy them, may be ex-
pected; bnt it cannot be hoped tlmtevoy
one will oeaae to sdl spudla witfaoot a li-
cence; for they are, m I am ioibrmed,
oifered every hour in the streeta by those
to whom twenty sfaiUingi make a vciy
barge sum, and who thermre wiU not, or
oannot purchase a licenoe. These ought
undoubtedly to be detected and punished;
but there is no provision made for dis-
covering them, but what baa been fomd
already to be Ine&ctuaL
It appeaiB, dierefore, my loada, that thb
Bill wilt increase the number of lawfiil re-
tailers, without diminishing dhat of private
deders ; so that the opportunitiea of de-
bancbery will be multiplied, in jpropoitioo
to die numbers who shaU ti^ liornoea
There is another fUlacy by adii^ Ibe
dnttes upon distilled limora have bem
hitherto avoided, and aduch will atiBasdn
thia BHI equally useless aa the Csimer, for
the ends wbkb are to be nromotad by iL
It is exp^ted, my loros, by tkose who
purdiase spirits from die dastiBes^ that
they should be of a certain 6emt of
strength which they csil proof: t£ they
are Ota lower degree^ their inioe ' ^'
nished: and if ofahig^er»it is ]
portkmally; hecauae if thespn
the degree of strength required, they amy
be mixed with odier liquors of little vabe^
and still be soU to the drinker at the oasft-
pes^
pnce.
It la therefore die practice of the distil-
lers to givetheir ^irits thrioe die degree
of atreagth sequired, by wUch con-
trivance^ thop^ ib^ffij oaiylkad^
L33S]
&n the SpifHiums Ufu^s BUL
A. D. 1743.
[ISSt
)£ one irihit, thej «cil their UqiioiB at the
>rice of three; beoMse it vmy be io»
rreaaed to thrice the quantity distilled,
md jet retain sufficient strength to pro*
mote the pwrpoees of wickedom.
Xliia practice^ my lorfls» should be like-
arise obviated ; for while one gallon, after
haviiig paid the present low dSxy which is
laid imon it, may be multipliea to threoi
the additional price will, in the small quan-
tities which are bsuaDy demanded, become
imperoeptible.
But to show yet &rther the tnefficacy of
this Bfll, let U8 suppose, what will not be
fcMind by eiq>ericDce, that a balipenny is
sidded to the {vice of every pint» it will yet
be very pracmable to revel in drunken-
ness for a penny, since a very amall quan-
tity of these hateful liquors is sufficient to
intoxicate those who have not been ha-
bituated to the use of them; who, though
their reformation is undouJ)tedly to be
desired, do not so much demand the care
of the lesiskture, as tfiose #ho are j^
imtsinted with this peiaicioua piacttce^
and who may, perhans, by thofrequency
cf temptatkm, and the prevalence of ex-
ample, oe induced in time to taste these
execrable liouors, and perish in their iist
essays of deiMmdibry,tor such is the qua-
lity of these spirits, that they are sometimes
fatal to those who indiscreetly venture
upon them without cautieD, sind whose
stomachs have not been prepared for large
draughts, by proper gradations of inten-
peranoe: a sii^le spoonful has been
found sufficient to huny two children to
the grave. ^
It is, therefore, my cminkNif that these
whose stations and en^IoyoMnts make it
their dnty to sujperintend lihe oondact of
their ftuow-enbjeots, ought to contrive
some other law on this occflaion-; oiight
to endeavour to rescue the common peo-
ple fmat die infttualion whidi is become
ceneial amonffst them, and to withhold
nom diem tiie means of wickedness.
That instead of complying with thdr pre-
judioes, and- flattering their appetites, tiMnr
should exert that authori^ with whidi
they aria entrusted in asteady and resolute
opposition to predomtnaat vices; and
without having recoorae to gentle arts,
and temporising expedients, snatch out of
their thanda at once those instruments
which are only of use for criminal purposes,
and take fiBom their mouths that draught
with which, however delicious it maj^
they poison at
The .only argument which can be offer*
ed in defence of this Bill, is the necessity
of supporting the expences of the war,
and the difficulty of raising money by any
other method. The necessity of the war,
ray lords, 1 am not about to call in ques-
tion, nor is it very consistent widi my
character to examine die method in which
it has been carried on; but this I can
boldly assert, that however just, however
necessary, however prudently prosecuted,
and however successfully concluded, it
can produce no advantages eouivalent to
the national sobriety and industi^^ and
am certain that no public advantage ought
to he purdiased at the expence of public
virtue.
But, my lords, I hope we are not yet
reduced to the unhappy choice either of
coiruptin^ our peopfe, or submitting to
our eaeniies ; nor do I doubt but that sup*
plies may be obtained by methods less
pernicious to the public, and that funds
eaffideot for the present occasion may be
established without a legal establishment
of drunkenness.
I hope, my lords, we shall not suffix our
endeavours to be baffled by the obstinacy
of drunkards; and that we shall not desist
fr^m endeavouring the recovery of die na-
tion from this hateful vice, because our
fkst attempt has failed, since it fiuled only
by the negligence or the cowardice «s
those whose duty reqiured them to pro*
mote the execution of a just law.
Against the Bill now before us I have
tfaou^t it my duty to decbre, as it ap-
pears to me opposite to every princ^le of
virtue, and every iuat purpose of govern*
m^; and thererore, though I have en-
grossed so much of your time in speakmg
on a subject with which it cannot reason-
ably be expected that I should be well ac-
quainted, I hm I shall easily be pardoned
by jwxt brdmps, since I have no private
news either of interest or resentment to
promote, and have spoken only what my
conscience dictates» wad my duty requires.
Lordroftof.-
My lords; I jsmadiaraed that there
should be any necessity of opposing in this
House a Bill like that which is now before
us 1% Bill crowded with absurdities, which
no strength of eloquence can exaggerate,
nor any mrce of reason make more evident.
This Bill, my lords, is however the first
proof that our new ministers have given of
their capacity for the task which they have
MdectaUD; this is a specimen of their
1535] 16 GEORGE II.
8agacit7» and is designed by tliem as an
instance of the ecntle methods by wfaidi
the expences of uie government are here-
after to be levied upon the people. The
nation shall no longer see its manu&ctures
subjected to imposts, nor the fruits of in-
dustry taken from the laborious artificer ;
but drunkenness shall hereafter supply
what has hitherto been paid by diligence
and traffic ; the restraints of vice shall be
taken awav, the barriers of virtue and re-
ligion broKen, and an universal licentious-
ness shall overspread the land^ that the
schemes of the ministry may be executed.
What are the projects, my lords, that
are to be pursued by such means, it is not
my present puipose to enquire ; it is not
necessary to aad any aggravations to the
present charge, or to examine what has
Deen the former conduct, or what will be
the future actions of men who lie open by
their present proposal to the roost atrocious
accusations ; who are publicly endeavour-
ing the propagation of the most pernicious
ot all vices, who are laying poison in the
way of their countrymen, poison by whidi
not only the body, but the mind is conta-
minated ; who are attempting to establish
by ft law a practice productive of all the
miseries to which human nature is incident ;
m practice which #ill at once disperse dis-
eases and sedition, and promote beggary
and rebellion.
This, my lords, is the expedient by
which the acuteness of our ministry
proposes to raise the supplies of the pre-
sent year, and by this tney hope to con-
vince the nation that they are qualified for
the high trusts to which they are advanced;
and that they owe their exaltation only to
. the superiority of their abilities, the extent
of their knowledge, and the maturity of
their experience : by this master-stroke of
poK<7 they hope to lay for their authority
a firm and durable foundation, and to pos-
sess themselves, by Uiis happy contrivance,
at once of the confidence of the crown,
and the affections of the people.
But, my lords, [ am so little convinced
of their abilities, that amidst all the exul-
tation which this new scheme produces, I
will venture to predict the decHhe of their
influence, and to fix the period of their
greatness ; for I am persuaded, that not-
withstanding the readmess with which they
liave hitherto sacrificed the interest of
their country, notwithstanding the des-
perate precipitation with which they have
Mindly engaged in the most dangerous
wssures, they will not be able to con-
1 a year in their present stations.
[1S96
DekdeiniieLordi
The mi now under our i
my lords, will undoubtedly make all those
thieir enemies whom it does not cocmpt;
fi»r what can be expected firem It, but am-
versal disorder and boundless wiekedneas?
wickedness made insolent by the protect
tion of the law, and disorder promoted by
all diose vrimse wealth is incseased by tlie
increase of the revraues of die govern*
ment.
Had it been ur^,4ny lords, in defence
of this BUI, that it was necessary to nisa
moninr, and that money could only be
raise«l by increasing the consamptioo of
distilled spirits, it would have been appa-
rent that It was well calculated to promote
the purposes intended ; butsurdy, toa»>
sort that it will obstruct the use cf these
liquors, is to discover a degree eitiier of
ignorance, of effrontery, or of foOy, by
which few statesmen have beeo hitherto
distinguished.
If we receive without examination tUoB
estimates whidi have been laid down, and
allow the duty to rise as high as those by
whom it is projected have ventured to as-
sert, the price of these liquors can be
raised bat a hidfjpenny a pint ; and there
are few, even among the lowest of those
who indulge themselves in this fatal luxury,
whom the want of a single haHpenny can
often debar from it.
And though these accurate csJcuhton
should insist that men may sometimes be
compelled to sobriety by this addition to
the expence of bemg drunk, yet how Su^
will this restraint be found from being
e(}uivalent to the new temptation, winch
wril be thrown into the way of thousands
yet uncomipted, by the multitude of new
shops that will be opened for the distribo-
tion of poison, and the security wfaidi de-
baueherf will obtaon from the cooDteoaaes
ofthelegidature!
What will be the consequences of any
encouragement given to a vice idieady dk
most irresistibly prevalent, I cannot deter-
mine ; but surely nothing is too disDial to
be expected from universal drunkenness
from' a general depravi^ of all the most
useful part of mankind, mm an epidemicsl
fury of debauchery, and an unbounded
exemption from restraint.
How little any encouragement is want-
ing to promote the consumption of thsss
execrable liquors, how mudi it oonoenis
everjr i^an who has been informed of dieir
quality, and who has seen their conse-
quences, to oppose the use of them with
his utmost influeaoe, appeals fiNMa the
S37]
M At Spmtuoui laqu»n BiO.
A. D. 174S.
[I39S
sonnoiu quantity which the stiUs of this
fttion annuaUy produce.
The number of gallons which i^peais
cm the accounts on the taUe to have
een consumed last jear^iB seven millions ;
quantity sufficient to destroy the health,
itemipt the labour, and deprave the mo-
ftls of a very great part of the nation; a
uantity which, if it be su&red to conti*
ue undiminished, will, even without any
^al encouragement of its use, in a short
ime destroy Uie happiness of the public ;
nd by impairing the strength, and lesseh-
ig the number, of manuncturers and la-
ourers, introduce poverty and famine.
Instead therefore of promoting a prac^
ice so evidently detrimental to society,
H us oppose it with the most vigorous ef-
Drts ; let us begin our opposition by re-
ectioff this Bill, and then consider, whe-
her the execution of the former law shall
le enforced, or whether another more
fficacious can be formed.
The Earl of Chclmonddey :
My lords; though it is undoubtedly
be right of every person in this House to
itter his sentiments with freedom, yet
iirely decency ought to restrain us from
irulent, and justice from undeserved re-
roaches; we ought not to censure any
onduct with more severity than it de-
erves, nor condemn any man for prac-
ices of which he is innocent.
This rule, which will not, I suppose,
»e controverted, has not in my opmion
^een very carefully observed m this de-
bate; for surely nothing is more unjust
han to assert or insinuate, that the covernr
nent has looked idly upon the advances
f debauchery, or has suffered drunken-
less to prevail without opposidon.
Of the care with which this licentiousness
las been opposed, no other proof can be
equired, than the laws which have in the
iresent reign been made against it. Soon
fter the succession of his majesty, the use
»f compound spirits was prohibited ; but
his law being eluded by substituting
iquors so drawn, as not to be included in
he statutes, it was soon after repealed ;
ind the people were for a time, mdeed,
uffered to arink distilled liquurs without
estraint, because a proper method of re-
training them was not easily to be found.
How difficult it was to contrive means
>y which this vice might safely be prevent*
», appeared more plainly soon afterwards,
vhen the outrageous licentiousness of the
Mf ulace made it necessary, to connive
some new hnr by which the use of that
liquor mieht be prohibited, to which so
much insdence, ioleness and dissoluteness
were imputed.
The law which it is now proposed to re-
peal, was then aealously promoted by thoM
who were then most distmguished for their
virtue and their prudence. Every man
who had any regard for the happiness of
the public was alarmed at the mundatioa
of licentiousness that overflowed this city^
and beean to spread itself to the remoter
parts of the kingdom ; and it was deter-
mined that nothing but a total prohibition
of distilled liquors could preserve the
peace, and restore the virtue of the na*
tion.
A law was therefore made, which pro*
hili^ited the retell of distilled spirits ; and
it was expected that the people would
in^mediateiy return to the use of more
innocent and healthful liquors, and that
the new art of sudden intoxication would
be wholly suppreaBed ; but with how little
knowledge ot the diwositions of die nation
this hope was formed, the event quickly
discovered ; for no sooner was the darling
liquor withheld, than a general murmur
was raised over all parts of this sreat citv,
and all the lower orders of the people
testified their discontent in the most open
manner. Multitudes were immediately
tempted by the prospect of uncommon
gain, to retail the prohibited liquors; of
these many were detected, and many
punished; and the trade of information
was so lucrative, and so closely followed^
that there was no doubt but the law would
produce the effect expected from it, and
that the most obstinate retailers would, by
repeated prosecutions, be discouraged
from the practice.
But no sooner did the people find their
favourite gratification m real danger,
than they unanimously engaged in its de*
fence; they discoveied that without in-
formers, the new law was without opera-
tion; and the informers were therefore
persecuted by them without mercy, and
without remission, till at last no man
would venture to provoke the resentment
of the populace for the reward to which in*
formation iatitled him.
Thus, my lords, one law has been elud«
ed by artinoe, and another defeated by
violence ; the practice of drinkinff spirits,
however pemidous, still continued to pre-
vail;, the magistrates could not punish a
crime of which they were not informed*
and they could obtain no infimnation
aaso]
1& GfiOJIGB n.
of a pcMtioe Tiodiaited bj te
It k not indeed to be idioived tlu* (he
custom of drinking distilled liquooy kovr-
cver prevalent^ has yet arisen to the height
«t wnich the noble lord who spoke bst
teems totcnagine it arrived; tat thospfa it is
vndouhtedy true that seven milhoiis of
'caUons are aimualiy distilled, it is not to
be imapiined that the whole quantity b
wasted m debaodiery ; some is exhausted
by the neoesrities, and some by the oon*>
^penienoes of life ; a great part is eayeited
toother countries, and the distillery pro^
motes many other purpoaes than those of
fiot and licentipusBessk
That too much, howerer, is used by the
common people, and that intemperance
has for some time prmrailed in a degree
miknown to any former i^, eanmit be
denied; and therefbre some means of re-
claiming them ought to be tried. What
then, my lords, is to be done ? The firat
law was duded, the second is defied; the
first was executed, but produced no re-
Itraiot; the second proauces a restraint
so violent, that it cannot be executed.
That the present law b inefectual, can*
not be doubted by those who assert, that
the quantity of spirits distilled, has every
year increased ; and there seems to remain
therefore no other choice dian that of
aufiering this increase to proceed, or to
endeavour to prevent it by new regulations.
The present law ought to be repealed, be-
cause it is useless ; but surely some other
ought to supply its place, which may be
more easUy enforoea, and less violently
'he Bill now before us, my lords, wiD,
in my opinion, answer all. the purposes of
the last, without noise, and without dis-
turbance. By lessening the price of li-
cences, it wul put a stop to clandestine
retail ; and by raising that of the liquors,
it will hinder the common people from
drinking them in their usual excess.
Those who have hitherto lost their reason
mid limbs twice a day by their drunken*-
aess, will not be able, under the intended
regulations, to commit the same crime
twice in a week ; and as the temptation of
cheapness will be taken awqr, it may be
koped^that the next geiieration wHl not
4Ui mto the same vice.
Since therefore, my lords, the argu-
ments m Avour of this Bill nre at least
ptoostble and apeeiou*; since the design
I to be worthy of this assembly, and
^"^ ' propbaed such aa.may be
appears
•a m0
hdpml to prodaee fbe efecta viiich tb
projectors of the BiD desire ; and siaa
the opinions of this Hooae are at leu
divided, aod the other haspaaacd it i
without Of^QsitiQa, we oamt at
my opinion, net to rejeet it with ^
tation, bat to refer k to a oomniitteey
it may be fidhr coaaideied; and tboae oh
jeotiona whica cannot be amwered, m
moved by proper altoradons.
The Earl of CheOc^fidd^ .-
.My lords ; the B81 now under ooi
consideratton appean to me to deserve «
much more dose recard than aeems to
have been paid to it m the cyther House,
through wnich it was hurried wilh the
utmost precipitation, and where it was
passed, almost without the fbrariity of a
debato ; nor can I thtcdc that eamestnesi
with which some lords seem inclmed to
press it forward here, consistent with the
importance of the consequences wbith
may be with great reason expected from
It has been urged, that where so great
a number have formed expectations of a
nationd benefit from any BiH, so mudi
deference, at least, is due to ^eir judge-
ment, as that the BiH should be con»deied
in a Committee. This, my lords, I admit
to be in other cases a just and reasonable
demand, and will reaoOy allow that the
proposal not only of a pons«lerabie mzm-
oer, but even of any single lord, ought to
be fully examined, and regularly debated,
accormng to the usual forms of this as-
sembly. But in the pireaent case^ mj
lords, and in all cases like the present,
this demand is improper, because it is
useless ; and it is useless, becaoae we can
do now, all that we can do hereafter in s
Committee. For the Bill before us is a
Money Bill, which, according to the pre-
sent opinion of the Commons, we have do
right to amend ; and which therefore we
have no need of considering in a Com-
mittee, since the event of all our delfteia-
tions must be, that we are either to reject
or pass it in its present state. For I sup-
pose no lord will diink ^s a proper tine
to enter into a controvert witn the Com-
mons for the revival of t^oseprivS^es to
which I believe we have a right, and sedi
a controversv the least attempt to amend
a Money BOl will certmnly produce.
* In the Coflection of Dr. Johnson's De-
bates, this Speech is eironaoarfy aftrilolsi n
loidCaMsrtt..
HI]
on tke SpinHuoAs Lipmn BSl.
A. £;. 1746.
Ci«f
To dcme thecefbre, Biy toHby that this
til may be considered IB a CoMoktee^ 10
ily to desire thai it may gain one atep
ithoat oppositioii ; thac H may proceed
Lrou^ the forms of the House by
ealtby .and that the ooDsideration of il
Ay be deb^ol till the exigencies of the
»vemmeht shall be so greats as not to
low time for raising the supplies by any
iier method.
By this artifice, gross as it is, the pa*
ons of this wcmderfiil Bill hope to obr
met a plain and open detection of its
^ndency. They h<^, my lords^ Uiat
le Bill shall operate in the same manner
ith the liquor which it is intended to
ring into more general use; and that as
lose that drink spirits are- drunk b^Bn«
ley are well ajcare that chey are drink-
1^, the effects of this law shall be per-
»ved before we know that we have
tade it. Their intent is to give us a
ram of p<dicy which is to be swallowed
efore it is tasted, and which, when once
is Bwallowedy win turn our heads.
But, my lords, I hope we shall be so
lutious as to examine the. drauaht which
lese state-empirics have thought proper
> offeir us; and I am con^deni that a
ery little examination will convince us
f the ]>ernicious Qualities of their new
reparation, and snow that it can have
o other e&ct than that of poisoning
lepublic
Tne law before us, my lords, seems to
e the effisct of that practice of which
; is intended likewise to be the cause,
ad to be dictated by the liquor of which
; so effectuatty promotes the use; for
irely it never before was conceived by
oy man entrusted with the administra-
on of public affiurs, to raise taxes by
le destruction of the people-
Nothing, my lords, but the destruction
fall the most laborious and Gsefiil palt
f the nation can be expected, from the
cence which ib now proposed to be given
ot Only to drunkenness, but to drunken-
ess oi the most detestable and dai^erous
iad, to the abuse not only of intoxicate
Iff, but of poisonous liquors,
r^othing, my lords, is more absurd than
> assert, that the use of spirits will be
indered by the Bill now before us, or
ideed that it will not be in a very great
egree promoted by it. For wlmt pro-
nces all kind of wickedaess, but the
rospect of impunity en one part, or the
oUcitation of opportanity on the other;
itker of these mm too h^^pn/Sfhtmk
stfttcieat to overpovser the
rality, aad even .of religion ; and what is
not to be feared from them, when they
shall unite their forces and opwrate to^
gether; whea temptations shall be inr
creased, aad terror taken away ?
It is allowed bv those who Kave hitherto
disputed on either side of this que»>
tion^ that the people appear obstinately
enamoured of this new liquor; it ia allowed
on both parts, that thisliquor corrupts the
mind, enervates the body, and desteoya
vigour aad virtue at the same time; ttuit
it makes those who drink it too idle and
too feeble for work; and, while it hnpa-
verishes them by the present expencs^
disables them from retrieving its iU rmmcr
qnenees by subsequent industry.
It migbt.be imagined, my lord^that
those who had thus far agreed, would not
easSv find any occasion of dispute; nor
would any maa» unacquainted with the
motives by which parliamentary debiMtea
are too oflien influenced, suspeot that after
the pernicious qualities of thia liquor^ usA
the general inclinatk)n among the p^opla
to the immoderate use of it, had been gsh
nerally admitted, it could be afterwaada
enquired, whether it ought to be made
more common, whether this universal
thirst fol: poison oueht to be encouraged by
the legislature, and whether anew statiita
ought to be made to secure drunkards in
the gratification of their appetites^
To pretend, my lords, toat the design
of this Bill is to prevent or diminish the
use of spirits, is to trample upon commoa
sense, and to violate the rules of decency
as well as of reas<m. For when did any
man hear, that a commodity was prohibited
by lioencmg its sale? or that to offer a^
refuse is the same action.
It is indeed pleaded, that it wiU he mad*
dearer by* the tax which is proposed^ and
that the increase of the price will diminish
the numbers of the purchasers ; but it is at
the same tune expected, that this tax shall
supply the expence of a war on the conti^
nent: it is asserted therefore, that the coor
somptiea of spirits willbehindered, and yet
that it will be such as mav be expected to
furnish, from a very small tax, a revcaae
sufficient for the support of armies, for
the re-estahhshment of the Austriin fii*
oily, aad the repression of the attempts of
Fkanoe.
Surely, my lords, these eacpeotations are
not very consistent, nor can It b^ imagiaed
thatdiqraiabolhfbnnedinthesaneheadi
though they may be expreaMd:hgr the ^aaa
1348]
16 GEORGE IL
DebtOemiheL^rdi
[ISM
mouth. It is hoirever some recomiMnd**
tTon of a sCatesmao, when* of hit asMitioiit
one can be found reasonable or true ; and
thb praise cannot be denied to our pre-
sent ministers ; for tfaou^ it is undoubt-
edly false, that this tax will lessen the con-
sumption of spirits, it is certainly true,
that it will nroauce a very large revenue,
a revenue that will not fail but with the
people from whose debaucheries it aiises.
Our ministers will therefore have the
same honour with their predecessors, of
havine given rise to a new fund, not in-
deed for tlie payment of our debts, but for
much more valuable purposes, for the
exaltation of our hearts unaer (^pression,
fi»r the elevation of our spirits amidst mis-
carriases and disappointments, and for the
cheertul support or those debts which we
have lost hopes of pajrins. They are re-
adved, my lords, that the nation, ythich
'nothing can make wise, shall, whOe they
are at its head, at least be merry ; and
ainoe public happiness is the end of go-
V!emment, they seem to imagme that they
ahali deserve applause by an expedient
which will enable every man to lay his
cares asleep, to drown sorrow, and lose in
the delif^hts of drunkenness both the pub-
lic miseries and his own.
Surely, my lords, men of this unbounded
benevolence, and this exalted genius, de-
serve such honours as were never paid
before; they deservetobestride a butt upon
every sign-postin the metropolis, or to have
their countenances exhibited as tokens
where this liquor is to be sold by the licence
which they have procured. They must be
at least remembered to future ages, as the
bappy politicians who, after all expe-
dioits for raising taxes had been employed,
discovered a new method of drainmg the
last reliques of the public wealth, and
added a new revenue to the government ;
Bor will those who shall hereafter enume-
late the several ftuids now established
among us, forget among thebeneftctors to
their country, the illustrious authors of the
Drinkins Fund.
May 1 be allowed, my lords, to congra-
tulate my countrymen and feUow-subjects
upon the happy times which are now «p-
preaching, in which no man will be dis-
qualified Tor the privilege of beiilg drunk,
when all discontent and disloyalty shall be
forgotten, and the people, thou^ now
Mttsidered by the ministry as their ene-
^ I shall acknowledge the lenity of tint
^^nnaat under which all restraints are
awayl ^ ^
But to a Hn far audi deaimfak pv-
poses, it woold be pro|>er, mj lords, to pre*
nx a preamble, in wbidi the klndnea d
our intentions should be nuire fallj ex*
plained, that the nation may not niMtake
our indulgence for cruelty, nor considB
their benmctors as tiieir penecat«»s. ii
therefore this Bill be considered aad
amended, (forwhy dsedMMilditbeeoB-
sidered?) in a committee, I diail humblj
propose, that it shall be mtrodisoedin dEiii
manner: ** Whereas the designs of the
present ministry, whatever they are, csa-
not be executed without a great nnmber d
mercenaries, which mercenaries cannot be
hired without mon^ : and whereas the
present disposition of this nation to
drunkenness inclines us to bdieve, tfait
they will pay more dieerfiiUy for the ua»
disturbed enjoyment of disdlled liquon,
than for any other concession that csn be
made by the government, be it enacted, by
the king's most excellent majea^, that aa
man soul hereafter be denied the rij^of
bemff drunk on the following conditHHtt.**
Tnis, my lords, to trifle no longer, ii
the proper preainble to this Bill, which
contains only the conditions on idbich the
people of this kingdom are to be aUoved
oenoeforward to riot in debaudiery, in
debauchery licenced by law, and coon-
tenanced by the nu^istrates; for there a
no doubt but those on whom the inventon
of this tax shall confer authority, will be
dh«cted to assist their masters in their de-
sign to encourage the consumption of that
liquor from which such large revenoes are
expected, and to multiply without end
those licences which are to pay a yearlj
tribute to the crown.
By this unbounded licence, my lords,
that price will be lessened, from the in-
crease of which the expectations of the
efficacy of this law are pretended ; for the
number of retailers wul lesaen the value
as in all other cases, and lessen it more
than this tax will increase it. Besides, it
is to be considered, that at present the re-
tailer expects to be paid for the danger
which he incurs by an unlawful trade, and
will not trust his reputation or his puise
to the mercy of his customer, without a
profit proportioned to the hazard; bat
when once the restraint shall be taken
awOT,he will sell for common gain; and it
can hardly be imagmed, that at present he
subjects himself to informations, and p^
nalties for less than sixpence a gallon.
The specious pretence, on which thk
Billisfottiidi^andiBdfied the only pie.
1315J
on the Spirituous Liquors BiU.
A. D^ 174S.
[1S16
Itnce that deserves to beteriised raecious,
i$ the propriety of taxing vice ; but this
maxim of government has on this occasion
been either mistaken or perverted. Vice,
my lords, is not properly to be taxed, but
loppressed ; and heavy taxes are sometimes
the only means by which that suppression
ean be attained. Luxury, m^ lords, or
the excess of that which is pernicious only
by its excess, may very properly be taxed,
that such excess, though not strictly un-
lawful, may be made more difiScult. But
the use of these things which are simply
burtful, hurtful in their own nature and in
every d^ree, is to be prohibited. None,
ny lords, ever heard in any nation of a
tax upon theft or adultery, because a tax
implies a licence granted for the use of
that which is taxed, to all who shall be
mlling to pay it.
Drunkenness, my lords, is universally
nd in all circumstances an evil, and there-
fore ought not to be taxed but punished ;
bid the means of it not to be made easy
by a slight impost which none can feel,
but to be removed out of the reach of the
Kple, and secured'by the heaviest taxes
ed with the utmost rigour. I ho^
those, to whose care the religion of tne
nation is particularly consigned, will una-
nimously join with me in maintaining the
iieoessity, not of taxing vice, but suppress-
ii^ it ; and unite for the rejection of a
Biu, by which the future as well as pre-
Knt happiness of thousands must be de-
troyed.
Lord Lonsdale :
Mj lords ; the Bill now before us
las, from its first appearaince in the other
louse, seemed to me of such importance
B to deserve the greatest attention, and
0 demand tibe most dilisent enquiry ; and
! have therefore considered it with un-
iommon care, and pursued all those en«
[tdries from which 1 could expect any as-
■stance for discovering its tendency and
ts coinsequenceiB, with the nicest and most
Bsious vigilance.
That lAy attention and diligence may
ot whdly terminate in the ppratification
fidle and useless curiosity, it is proper
% inform your lordships of their result ;
J which I hope to convince you, as I am
lyaelf convinced, that this Bill cannot be-
ome a law, without endangering the lives
f thousands, without dispersing diseases
ver the nation, or without niultiplying
rimes beyond the possibility of restraint
r punishment ; that it will ffll the land
tVOL.XIL]
with confusion fbr a time, by infttuating
the pei>ple, and afterwards lay it desolatt
by destroying them.
All my enquiries, my lords, have had
one constant and uniform effect. On what
side soever I have turned my speculations,
I have found new arguments against this
Bill, and h^e discovered new mischiefs
comprised in it ; mischiefs which, however
some may endeavour to overlook thero«
and others to despise them, will be found
In a short time too gtoeral to be con-
cealed, and too formide^le to be neg*
lected.
The first consideration, in which the
necessity of deliberating on this Bill en-*
gaged me, related to the Quality of the,
liquors which are mentioned in it. With
regard to this question, my lords, there
was no possibili^ of long suspence ; for
the pernicious efiects of spirits were con*
fessed equally by all those who counte-
nanced and opposed this new project;
nor could any man take a survey of this
city without meeting in his way such ob-
jects as might make all fiurther enquiriee
superfluous. The idleness, the insolence^
the debauchery of the common people^
and their natural and certain consequences,
poverty, diseases, misenr, and wickedness^
are to be observed without any intention
of indulging such disagreeable specula*
tions; in every part of this great metropolis,
whoever shall pass along the streets, will
find wretches stretched upon the pavement^
insensible, and motionless, ana only re*
moved by the charity of passengers from
the danger of being crushed by carriages,
or trampled by horses, or strangled with
filth in the common sewers ; and othen
less helpless perhaps, but more dangerous,
who have drank too much to fear punish*
ment, but not enough to hinder them
from provoking it; who think themselvea
in the elevation of drunkenness, entitled
to treat all those with contempt whom
their dress distinguishes firom them, and
to resent ever^ injury which in the heat
of their ima^nation they suppose them*
selves to sufier, with the utmost rage of
resentment, violence of rudeness, and scur«
rility of tongue.
No man can pass a single hour in pub-
lic places without meeting such objects,
or hearing such expressions as disgrace
human nature ; such as cannot be lookaA
upon Without horror, or heard withput in*
dignation, and which there is however ne
pomibility of removing or preventiiig
whilst this hatful liquor is publidy
IS51] 16 GEORGE U.
he oertaades us to expect^ the price Of
the uquor roust be raised io the same pro-
C>rt]on ; but the duty laid upon the gal*
n will net increase the price a fifth part,
even though it should not be eluded
bjr distilling liquors of an extraoidinanr
atrenffth ; one fifth part of the price is
tfaerdore, in his loidsnip's estimate, e^ual
to the whole price seven times multiphed.
Such are the arguments which have been
produced in fistvour of this Bill ; and such
u the diligence with which the public
happiness is promoted by those who have
hopes of being enriched by public calami-
ties.
As the tax will not make a fifth part of
Ae price, and even that may be in some
measure evaded, the duty paid for licences
scarcely deserves consideration ; for it is
Hot intended to hinder retailers, but to
make them usefiil in some degree to the
ministry, by paying a yearly tax for the
licence of poisoning.
It IS therefore apparent, upon the noble
lord's supposition, that the p^ce of the li-
quor will be raised in consequence of this
tax, that no man can be hindered from
more than a fifth part of his ueual debauch-
ery, which however would be some ad-
vantage to the public; but even this smaU
advantage cannot be expected from the
Bill, because one part will obstruct the
benefits that might be hoped from ano-
ther.
^ The duty upon liquors, however incon-
siderable, will be necessarily an augmen-
tation of the price to the first buyer, but
probably that augmentation will be very
little felt by the consumer. For, my lords.
It must be considered, that many circum-
stances concur to constitute the price of
any commodity ; the price of what is in
itself ch^, majr be raised by the art or
the condition of those that sell it; what is
engrossed by a few hands, is sold dearer
than when the same quantity is dispersed
in many ; and what is sold in security, and
under the protection of the law, is cheap-
er than that which exposes the vender to
prosecutions and penalties.
At present, my lords, distilled spirits are
aold in opposition to the laws of the king-
dom; and therefore it is reasonable, as
has been before observed, to bc^eve that
an extraordinary profit is expected, be-
cause no man will incur danger without
advantage. It is at present retailed for the
greatest part by iadieent persons, who
cannot be supposed to buy it in large quan-
tities, and consequently not at the cheapo
t>ebaU in the Lords
[ISSS
est rate; andwhomost of neoesailji
large profit, because they are to
upon a very small stock.
These causes concurring, may be easfly
imagined to raise the price more than a
fifth part above the profit which is expect-
ed in other traffic; but when tiiia Rill
shall become a law, the neceasity of large
profit will no longer subsist: for tbere will
then be no danger in retailing spirits, and
they will be chiefly sold in housea by per-
sons who can affi>rd to purchase tbem in
great quantities, who can be trusted by the
distiller, for the usual time allowed io
other trades; and who therefore maj aell
them without any exorbitant advantage.
Besides, ray lords, it is reaaonable to
imagine, that the present profit to the re-
tailer is very great, since, like that which
arises from the clandestine exportation o£
wool, it is sufficient to tempt moltitades to
a breach.of the law, a contend of penal-
ties, and a defiance of the nis^:istrates ;
and it may be therefore imt^^ined, that
there is room for a considerable abatement
ef the price, which may subtract much
more than is added by this new duty.
This deduction from the price, my lords,
will probably besoon produced by the emu«
lation of retailers, who, when the trade be-
comes safe and public, will endeavour to
attract buyers by low rates ; for what the
noble lord, whose ingenious assertion 4 am
now opposing, has dedared with respect to
traders, that for a tax of a penny upon any
commodity^ they oblige the consumers to
advance two-pence, is not universally true :
and I believe it is as likely, that the people
will insist upon having the same liquor at
the usual price, without regard to the tax,
as that Uieyenders wUl be sole to raise their
price in an unreasonable prc^rtion. The
obstinacy of the people with r^ard to this
liquor, m^ lords, has already appeared ; and
I am indmed to bdieve, that thev who have
confessedly conquered the legistature, will
not suffer themselves to be overcome in the
same cause by the avarice of ale-house
keepers.
I am therefore confident, my lorda, that
tlus Bill will produce no beneficial effects
even in this city ; and that in the country,
where the sale of spirits was hinderedby ue
late law, or where at least it might have
been hindered in a great measure, it wiO
propagate wickedness and debau^ioy in a
degree never yet known; the torrent <^
licentiousness will break at once upon it,
and a sudden freedom from restraint will
produce a wanton enjcgfOMot of piivilegis
13532
en the Sj^iiuous Lifuors BilL
A. D. 17iS^
[13SA
which bad nerer been thoui^t lo vAluablei
bad they never been taken away* Tbua,
while the crowds of the capital are every
day thinned by the licensed distributors of
poison, the country, which is to be consi-
dered as the nursery in which the human
species is <^efly propagated, will be made
barren ; and that race of men will be inter-
cepted, which is to defend the liberty of
tiie ne^bbouring nations in the next age,
which is to extend our commerce to other
kingdoms, or repel the encroachments of
future usurpation*
The Bin, my lords, will therefore pro^
duce none of tne advantages whidi tnose
who promote it have had the confidence to
pronuse the public. But let us now exa-
mine, whetlier the^ have not been more
sagacious in secunne the benefits which
th^expect from it themselves*
That one of the intentions of it is to raise
a sum to supply the present exigencies df
the government is not denied ; that this is
the only intention is generally believed, and
believed upon the stron^st reasons ; for it
is the only effiect which jt can possiblv pro*
duce; and to this end it is calculatea with
all the skill of men, long versed in the laud-
able art of contriving taxes and of raising
moqey*
I have already shown to your lordships,
that seven millions of gallons of spirits are
annuallydistilled in this kingdom; this con-
aumpdon, at the small duty of six-pence a
gallon, now to be imposea, will produce a
yearly revenue of 175,000/. and the tax
upon licences may be rated at a very large
aum ; so that there is a fund sufficient, I
hope, for the expenc^ which a land war is
to bring upon us*
But we are not to forget, my lords, that
this is only the produce of the first year,
and that the tax is likely to affiml every
year a laiger revenue* As the consump-
tion of those liquors, under its late discou-
ragements, has advanced a million of gal-
lons every year, it may be reasonably ima-
gined, that by the countenance of the le-
gislature, and the protection of authority.
It will increase in a double proportion; and
that in ten years mcHre, twenty millions will
be distilled every year for the destruction
of the peo(^.
Thus fur, my lords, the sdieme of the
ministry appears prosperous ; but all pros-
perity, at least all the prosperity of disho-
nesty, must in time have an end* The
practice of drinking canxkot be for ever con-
tinued, because it will hurry the present
generation to the gravei and prevent the
prodnetien of another : the revenue must
cease with the consumption, and ti^e con-»
sumption must be at an end when the con-
sumers are destroyed.
But this, my lords, cannot speedily hap-
pen, nor have our ministers any dread of
miseries which are only to fall in distant
times upon another generation* It is su&
fident tor them, if their expedient can sup*
ply those exigencies which their counsm
have brought upon the public ; if they paj.
their court to the crown with success, at
whatever disadvantage to the people, and
continue in pqwer till they have enlarged
their fortunes, and Uien widiout punish*
ment retire to enjoy them*
But I hope, my lords, that we shall ad
upon very difierent principles, that we shall
examine the most oistant consequences of
our resolutions, and consider ourselves, not
as the agents of the crown to levy taxes^
but as the' guardians of the people to pro-
mote the public happiness; that we shaB
always remember, tnat happiness can be
produced only by virtue; and that since
this Bill can tend only to the increase d
debauchery, we shall, without the formally
of a commitment, unanimously reject it
with indignation and abhorrence.
Lord Carteret :
My lords ; the Bill now befbre us
has been examined with the utmost acute-
ness, and opposed with all the arts of elo-
quence ana argumentation; nor has any
topic been forgotten that could speciously
be employed against it* It has been repre*
sedtea by some as contrary to policy, and
by others as opposite to religion ; its con-
sequences have been displayed with all the
eonfidoice of prediction, and the motives
upon which it has been formed, declared
to be such as, I hope, every man abhors
who projected or d^ends it* '
It has been asserted, that this Bill owes
its existence only to the necessity of raising
taxes for the support of unnecessary troops^
to be employed in useless and dfmfferous
expeditions ; and that those who defend k
have no regard to the happiness or virtue
of Uie people, nor any otner design than
to raise supplies, and gratify the ministry*
In pursuance of this scheme of argu-
ment, the consequences of this Bill have
been very artfully deduced, and very co-
piously exphuned ; and it has been assert^
ed, that by passing it we shall show oui^
selves the patrons of vice, the defenders of
ddiaucheiyi and the promoters pf drunk-
enness.
1355] 16 GEORGE U.
. It has been declared, tfaiit in
qaence of dus lair, by which the use of
dbtilled liquors is intended to be restrainedy
the retailers of them will be miidtiplied, and
multiplied without end ; till the corruption,
irhich 18 ah-eady too extensiTe, is become
general, and the nation is transformed into
a herd of drunkards.
With re|;ard to the uses to Which die
money which shall arise from this tax is to
be applied, though it has been more than
dnce mentioned m this debate, I shall pass
ft over, as without any connection with
Ihe question befor^ us. To confound dif-
ferent topics, maybe useful to those whosiB
desifipi is to impose upon the kattention or
Weakness of their opponents, as they may
lie enabled by it to alter sometimes the
state of the controversy, and to hide their
Ulades in perplexity and confusion, Irat
fhRrays to be avoided by those who endear
▼our to discover and to establish truth,
Mio dispute not to confound but to con-
TOoe, and who intend not to disturb the
publk deliberations but asssist them*
I shall therdbre, my lords, only endea*
TOur to show that tne consoguence, of
which some lords express, and I believe
with sincerilj, such dreadftd apprehen*
iions, is not m reality tp be feared from
this Bill, that it willpobably promote the
purpose for which it is dedipred to be cal-
odated, and that it will by ne means pro-
duee that havoc In the hutnan species wnich
aeems to be suspected, or diffuse that cor*
lupCioB trough tiie people which has been
eonfidently foretold. ^
The proent state of this vice, my lords,
has-been folly eirolaiiied as weU by those
who oppose the Bill as by those wno de»
ftnd It. The use of distilled liquors is notr
J^ohibited by a penal law, but the execu-
tion of this law, as of all others of the same
kmd, necessarUy supposes a regular infoi>-
tnstioa of the breach of it to be laid be-
Ibre the magiscrate. The people consider
thps law, however just or necessary, as an
act of the most tyrannical cruelty, which
ought to be opposed with the utmost stea-
diness and vigour, as an insupportable
hardship from which they ought at any rate
to set themselves free.
They have determined, therefore, not to
be governed by this law, and have conse^
quently endeavoured to hinder its execu-
tion ; and so vigorous have been their ef-
forts, that they have at last prevailed. At
first they only opposed it by their perse-
verance and obstinacy, they resolved to
persist in the practice of retailing liquors
DdMmMLards [UM
without ie§afd so the psdakieisAiifhthsy
mi^tincmrbyit; andtfaenefapeaaoMyg
put to prison, his place was iumicntirtslf
supplied by anathcr; andsolre^EWiiftwcn
the informations and to firuitleas the p^
nalties, that the chief mttisMIe of Ab
metropolis lamented publicly in tiie (
House, the unpleasii^ neosasi^ to ^
he was subjected by that law^ of fi
imprisoning without end, and
hopls of procuring the
was intended. *
Thus they proceeded for i
appeared to hope that the _
would after a while connive at a ptBdaosi;
which thej diould find no degree of aevoi
rity sufficient to suppress; liiattliej«oid4
sink under the fatigue of [
puipose, that th^ would l>y 1
theur vigilance, and leave the^
quiet possessbn of that felicitj i^biefathey
appeared to rate at ao high a price.
At length, my lords, instead of
lag the magistraleB, they grew
themselves, and detennined no longer lia
bear persecution for their enjoyaaenta, hat
to resist that law which Ihej coold aat
evade, and to which they would not edb»
mit. They therefore detennined to nsA
out all those who by th^ infim
promoted its execution, as puWc i
as wretches who, for the sake of a \
owned on a trade of perpiry and
cudon, and who haraased their
ne^hbours only for carrying on
employment, for 'supblymg the wants <f
the ^oor, rdieving toe weactneaa of the
labourer, administermg solace to die d»
jected, and corffiids 1^ the sick.
The word was therefore given that as
informer should be spared; and when aa
offnider was summoned by the eivi d^
^ers, crowds watched at the door of ths
BMgistcate to rescue die firiaoner, aad la
discover mid seiaethe witness upon wImss
testimony he was convicted; andnaftib
tunate was the wretch who, with the i»
putation of this crime upon hiao, fiell inas
thdr hands; it is welt remembered Iqf
every man who at that time was coa»
versant in this city, with what ootcrics sf
iumph
seized, and with what rage o^ croehy ha
was tormented.
One instance of their fury I wery parti-
culariy rememb^. As a man waspass*
ing along the streets, the ahirm was g^a
that he wai an iafonii^ ^^(aiiist the i^
mr\
0fi tht afiirifkdui Liquors BiB.
A. D. ms.
[1359
rileis of •piritttoas Kquon, tbe populaee
imte immediatelf gather^ as in a tune of
iommon danger, and itnited iirllie puraait
ii of a beast of prey* wkidi it was cri-
BBnal not to destroy ; themandiscorered,
Rther by consdousness or intelli^enoe,
ds danger, and fled for his life with the
idnost precipitation; but no housekeeper
hirat arord him shelter, the cry increased
bon him *on all hands, and the populace
Aed^on after htm with a torrent not to
le resisted ; and he was upon the point o^
Ming overUdcen, and like some otherA de->
toroyed, when one of the greatest persons
b tne nation, hearing the tumult, and
diquirii^^ the reason, opened his doors to
he distiiss^d fugitiTe, and sheltered him
rom a cruel deaSi*
Soon afterwards there was a stop pot to
linlbmaticm; no man dared afterwards,
tr the sake of a reward, eKpose himself
0 the ftury of the people, ana the use of
bese destructive fiquors was no lon^
bstructed. How mudi the practice
f this kind of debaucherv prevailed.
Her this short restraint, and how much
he consumption of tiiese destructive
iquors has increased,'the noble lord who
pdee last has very accurately informed
s, aor can any argument be offered for
be present BiU more strong than that
lUGn his computations have already fiur*
Ished.
For, if it appears, my lords, and it can-
lOt be dottbtea after such autiientic testi-
ioniies, that seven, millions of gallons of
sirits are every year consumed in this
mgdom, andtfaat of these fer the greatest
aantity is wasted in &e most flagitious
nd destructive debauchery ; it is surely at
»gth necessary to consider by what
leans this consumption, whidi cannot be
topped, may be lessened, and this vice ob*
tructed, which cannot be reformed.
By opening a sufficient number of li-
enced shops, the number of unlicenced
Btailers will be necessarily lessened, and
y raising the price of the liquor, the
aantity which the poor drink, must with
qual certainty be oiminished ; end as it
annot be imagined that the number of
bose who will pay annually for licences,
m be equal to that of the petty traders,
iio now dispose of spirits in cellars and in
be streets; it is reasonable tobeheve that
^nce there will be fewer seUers, less will
■esold.
Sdme ttdble lords have indeed declared
beir sutoidon, that tbe number of liceneed
bijps im Hs'suich a» wa endanger the
heahh of the people, and the peace of tli*
comraonwealtn; and one has so ^ in«
dulged Ins imagination, as to declare thai
he expects 1,500 shops.to be set onen for
the sale of spirits, in a short time aner th# ,
puUication of this law.
if it be answered, that no spirits can be
sold but by those who keep a house ot
public entertainisent bv a licence from the
justices of the peace, the opponents of the
Bin have a reply ready, that the justices
will take all opportunities to promote the
increase of the . revenue, ana. will always
grant a licence when it is demanded, widb*
out recard to the mischiefs that may arise
from the increase of the retreats of idle*
ness and receptacles of vice ; and thai
therefore to allow justices to grant licences
fi>r the retaH of any commodity upon
which a tax is hiid, is to permit the sale of
it without limits.
But, my lords, this argumdht will vanish^
when it is considered Uttt those justices to
whom the law commits the superintend
dency of public houses, are superintended
thenuelves by men if ho derive their au«
thority from a higher power, and whose
censures are more formidable than judicial
penalties. The conduct €i£ the justices^
my lords, as of every other person, Iim
3)en to the ohfiervation of die reverend
orgy, by whose counsels it is to be re*
gulated, and by whose- admonitions il
ou^t to be reformed ; admonitions which
cannot be supposed to be without force
from meii to whom the great province of
preaching virtue and tru& is committed,
and whose profSsssion is so much re*
verenced, that reputation and infamy are
generally in their power.
Should the justices, my lords, abuse their
authority, either for the increase of the
revenue, or any other purpose, what could
they expect but to be marked out on tho
next day of public worship for reproach
and derision ? What could they hc^ but
that their crimes should be displayed in
the most odious view to their heiglibour%
their children and their dependants ; and
that all those from whom nature or interest
teaches them to desire friendship,, re*
verence, or esteem, will be taught to con*
sider them as the slaves of power and the
agents of villainy, as the propagators of
debauchery, and the enemies of mankind i
There is, therefore, my lords, rteson to
hope that the Bill may be useful, because
it will be hindered from bein^ detrimental {
and as there is an absolute necessitv of do-
ing somethii^,' and aa better snefAodxau
1359] 16 GEORGC tt.
at present be proposed, I think this odght
not to be rejected. We have found by
experience that the public is not to be re-
ibnned at once, and that the propreas from
corruption to reformation must be gradual ;
and as this Bill enforces some d^rees of
amendment^ it is at least more eligible than
the present law, which is wholly without
elect, because no man will dare to put it
in execution*
Every man must be convinced by his
own experience of the difficulty with which
long habits are surmounted. I myself
■ufier some indulgence which yet I can-
not prevail upon myself to foibear; this
induiffence is the use of too much snuff,
to which it is wen known that many per*
sons of rank are not less addicted ; and
therefore I do not wonder that the law is
ineftctual, which is to encounter with the
hid>its and appetites of the whole mass of
the common people. Por this reason, my
lords, I cannot approve what has been re-
commended in this debate, any new law
that may put the enjoyment of this liquor
yet ftrtherfrom them, by facilitating ^ro-
sectttions, or enforcing penalties, as 1 am
convinced diat the natural force of the
people is superior to the law, and that
their natural force will be exerted for the
defence of their darling spirits, and the
whole nation be shaken with universal se-
dition.
It has been objected by the noble lord,
that the tax now proposea is such as never
was raised in any government, because,
though luxury may confessedly be taxed,
yice ought to be constantly suppressed ;
■nd this, in his lordship's opinion, ia a tax
upon vice. His lordsnip's distinclion be-
tween luxury and vice, between the use of
thinffs unlawful, and the excess of things
lawful, is undoubtedly just, but by no
means applicable on this occasion; nor
indeed has the noUe lord with all his art
been able to apply it ; for he was obliged
to diangethe terms in his argument; and,
instead of calling this tax, a tax upon
atrong liquors, to stigmatise it with the
odious appellation of a tax upon drunken-
ness. To call any thing what it really b
not, and then to censure it, b very easy;
too easy, my lords, to be done with suc-
cess. To confute the argument it b only
necessary to observe, that thb tax b nota
tax upon drunkenness, but a tax laid upon
strong liquora lor the prevention of drunk-
mMm ; and by consemience, such as faUs
irithin the compass of nb own definition.
. in^ ji j^^^ ^ ^^^ ^^^^ tazuiy cannot
D&baie m tie Lardt
[un
be inferred feom the ind^eoce of thw
whom it b intended to reform ; ferluxarr
b, my lofds, ad modum posadentu^ of di-
fetent kinds, in proporticm to difinent cm-
ditions of life, utA one man mmy yeryd^
oentl)r enjoy those delicaciea or pleasorb
to wiuch It would be fodbh and criminal
in another to aspire. Whoever spends
upon superfluities what he must want for
the necessities of hfe, b luxarious; snd
excess therefore of distilled ^irita nay be
termed with the utmost propriety the
luxury of the poor. Thb, mj lords, ap-
peared to be the opinion of the noble lord
who spoke so copiously on thb question at
the beginning or the debate; of thb opi-
nion was the reverend prelate when he
observed, that * necessity ita^ was be-
come luxurious,' and of this opinion mua
every man be, who advises socn a duty to
be laid upon these liquors aa nunr at oooe
debar the poor from the use of them ; for
such a proposal evidently supposes then
unnecessary, and all enjoyment of things
not necessary b a degree of luxuiy. To
tax this luxury, whi<£ bperfaapa the most
pernicious of aU others, » now proposed;
but it is proposed to tax it only to sup-
press it, to suppress it by audi slow de-
grees as may be borne by the people; and
I hope a law so salutary will not be opposed
only because it may atbrd the govenunent
a present supply.
The Duke of Newcasile :
My lords, I am of opinion that dib
debate would have been much ahorter,had
not the noble lords who have apdkcn in it
sufiered themsehrea to be led away, either
by their own seal or the seal of their op-
iwnents, from the true state of the ques-
tion, to which I shall take the libearty of re-
calling their attention, that thb impoftaot
controversy may have at length an end.
The point, tlie only point, that is, in my
opinion, now to be considered b thn : the
people of thb nation have for aooe time
practised a most permdoos and hat^id
kind of debaudiery ; against which seve-
ral laws have been aheady made, which ex-
perience has shown to be so fer without
eflfect, that the disorder has every year in-
creased among them ; [While the Duke
was speaking, the bishop of St. Asaph
^Dr. Isaac Maddox) said, without intco-
Uon tobe overheard, ** Yes, that bthe true
state of the case,'* upon whidi the Duke
stoM>ed, and asked whether hb lordship
had any objection to make, who anmveied
that he had no design of iBleni^tnii^ bin ;
lasi]
0M ib a^mkumi-Lipidirt BUI.
K. IX 17M«
[lafiB
he thenCBK pcoctfedecL] ' A new
lAwtbemrore b.propofed leis severe in*
deed Ihen the ioijiner» but which it is
lioped wil} be for that reeion more elBca*
cious ; .this law haying passed throu^ the
other Hoiise» is now in the commDn coarse
of our procedure to be considered by us in
conunittee.
We are now, my lords, therefore to re*
aolve, whether a tfill for the reformation
of this flagrant vice deserves an^ farther
deliberation^ whether we shall join with
the other House in their endeavours to
restore th^ ancient sobriety and virtue of
the British people, or, by afi open disap*
probation of their attempt, discourage
them fiom prosecuting their design, and
debar them from using the opportunities
that succeeding years may afford, and the
new lights which experience may supply
for improving tliis essay, however imper-
fect, to a salutary ai^d unexceptionable
Jaw.
• The prelates whose laudable zeal for
the proniotion of virtue has prompted them
to wtinguish themselves on thisioocasion
by m uncommon warmth of opposition,
oti^t, as they appear fully sensible of the
calamities which intemperance brings upon
mankind, to consider hkewise the conae-
que^ces of refusing to examine in a com-
mittee a Bill profeasedly drawn up to re-
strain intemperance. They ought to re-
member, that by rejectinj^ this Bill with-
out a particular examination of the several
clauses which it contains, and without
those particular objections which such exa-
minations necessarily produce, we dhall
discover a contempt of the wisdom or vir-
tue of the other House, which may incline
them in their turn to obstruct the mefr*
aures of the gjovemment, or at least to
nMlect that evil, however great, for the
redress of which they have no reason to
expect our concurrence.
Those whose particidar province it is to
inspect the lives of the people, to recal
them from vice, and strenmien them in
▼irtue, should certainly reroct on this oc-
casion, that the safest method ou^t to
be chosen ; and therefore that this Bill
owht to be promoted; because, not to
affirm too much, it is possible that it may
produce some degree of reformation ; and
the worst that oaa be feared is, that, like '
the present law, it will be ineftectual ; for
the corruption and licentiousness of the
people are already such, that nothing can
increase them*
The Bishop of Salisbury :•
Mv lords; I am so for from being
convincea bv the arguments of the noble
duke, that the Bill now before us ought to
be committed without fiuther opposition,
that, in my opinion, nothing can oe more
unworthy of the honour of this House, or
more unsuitable to the character which
those who sit on this bench ought to de-
sire, than to agree to any vote, which may
have the most distant appearance of ap-
probation.
That a Bill drawn up for the reformat
tion of nuMmers, for the restraint of a pre-
dominant and destructive vice, for the
promotion of virtue, and the ei]ibrcement
of religion, ought at least to be calmly and
particohurly considered, that the laudable
endeavours of the Commons ought not to
be discouraged by a precipitate and con-
temptuous rejection or the measures which
they have formed for the attainment of a
purpose so important, is indeed a spe«
cious and plausible method of persuasion ;
but, my lords, it can affect only those who
come to delflierate upon this Bill without
having read it. A very slisht and curso«
ry, perusal of the Bill, my lords, wHl dis*
sipate all the mists which eloquence caa
raise; it will show that the law now pro»
posed can neither be useful nor eflkctua]»
but tliat it must operate very powerfoUy^
though in a manner by no means agree*
able to its title.
To prevent the excessive use of any
Uiin^, b;^ allowing it to be sold without re*
stramt, is an exf^ent which the wisdom
of no former age ever discovered ; it ia
indeed a fallacy too gross to be admitted^
even by the most mconsiderate njj^ligenoe»
or the most contemntuoua stupimty ; nor
am I at aD indinea to believe that the
Commons will impute the rejection of thia
Bill to our disregard of virtue, or think
that we have dmated any endeavours
for the suppression of wickedness.
It has 0^ affirmed, that though Iqr the
Bill the sale is permitted, it is permitted
only because it cannot be hindered; and
that the price is raised so high, that though
the lawful venders may be multiplied, the
numl^ of the purchasers must be dimi-
nished. But even this argument, like all
others that have yet been advanced, ia
confuted by the Bill itselt^ from which
the tax now proposed appears to be such
as, when sub-divided by the small mea*
f4S]
•Dr.
laSS] 16OE0SGB IL
sures in which retfulen sdl these limn,
will scarcely be perceived, and which,
though it may enrich the government,
win not impoverish the people, except
by destroying their health, and enervating;
their limbs.
The tax, my lovds, even simaelnff it
paid without any method or evasion,
M so low, that in a ouarter of a pint, the
onanthy which the lovrer people usually
oemand at once, it does not amount to
any denomination of money ; and so small
an addition will be easily overfoahmoed by
the sale of a larger quanti^ than formerly,
lor it cannot be doubted but the practice
which prevailed in opposition to the law;
will grow yet more predominant by its
encouragement ; and that therefore the
advantage of a large and quick sale will
lessen the price more than so slight a tax
canpossibly increase it.
Tne noble duke has endeavoiued to re*
duce us to difficulties, by urging, that
since the corruption of the peo(^e cannot
be greater, we ought willingly to i^ree
toanylaw, of which the title declares that
it is intended to produce a reformation,
because the worst that can be feared is,
that it may be without efect. But, my
lords, such is the enormous absurdity of
this Bill, that no plea can be oflS^red mr It
with the least appearance of reason ; and
the greatest abilities, when they are exert*
ed in its defence, are able only to ^ow by
fruitless effi>rts that it cannot be vindicat-
ed. If the state of fhe nation be reaUy
puch as has been supposed, if the most
detestable and odious vice has overspread
tiie kingdom to its utmost limits, if the
people are universally abandoned to
drunkenness, sloth, and viUany, what can
be more absutd'than to trifle with doubt*
lul experiments, and to make laws which
must be suspected of inefficacy? In the
diseases of the state, as in those of the
body, the f^roe of the reihedy onsht to be
proDoitioned to the strength and danger
oi tne disease ; and surely no politrcal ma-
lady can be mete formidable ttian the pre*
valence of wickedness, nor can any dme
ee^uire more firmness, vigilance, and acs
t^vUy, in the legislative power.
itiat the law, thereme, may be with-
out e&ct, Is, in the present state of cor-
iraptlon, if it has been truly represented
• sufficient reason for rejecting it, without
allowing it 'to be committed; because
^reisnow «o tjAie for indttlgenoe, or
ia^'del^ : a iiatien universally corrupt,
must be speedily nefionned, 4>t speedily
IMole MS 4ir XerA
[13K
fdned. Tboae
confessed to be already too ptwwBifal fa
the lawa bow in being, mmv m • short
time be absoioteiy irossistible; andthat
licentiousnesB which intimidataa the efi-
cers <^ justiGe, may in aaotlMr year insult
thelegislatnrew
But, my lords, I am yet wiUingto hope
that the liMe duhe^e aoeomia •£ tke wkk-
edness of the peo^ was mther m rheto-
rical exagi^ration otteved hi thm mrdkm
of dispute, than a strict assertion of facts;
and am of opinioii that, though vice has
indeed of late spiead Hm ooDtngi<» with
mat rapidly, there are yet grant num-
bers unmfected, and cannot bdsave that
our condition is sudi, as Uiat noduag can
make it more inisesable.
In many parts of the coimtiyy my lordc,
these liquoie have not yet been macb used,
nor is ithkely that taoseidao have never
sold diem, wlieB the kw alloireddMsny wil
begin an unnecessary trade, when it will
expoeethemtopoiaftieB. But a new law
innstvoor ofspints will prodnoe a geoenl
indination, and a kind of emuiatian wil
incite eieiy one to take a lioeBce for tha
retail of dais new liquor; andao eveiy
partef thekingdomwfllbe e^ualiydebaueh-
ed, and no place will be widiont a vender
of alBtutable poison. The laxory of the
vulgar, for luxury, in my opinion, it msy
venr properly be called, will atiil increase,
and vices and diseases will increaae with it.
There is at least one part <«f the nation
yet untafaited, a part which Reserves the
utmost care of the legtsbtore, and wfakh
must be endangered qr a law like tins be-
fore as. The children, my lords, to wbom
die affiurs of the present generatioa mnsc
be transferred, and by vAom the nittioa
must be con^ued, are surely no ignoUs
part ef the public TlieyarevetinnooiBt,
and it is our provinoe to tale care that
they may m tnne- be vteuous ; we ei^
thecelbre to w^tame from before them
those examf^ ihal^tnay infoct, and diose
tenmtations that may oerrapttheaa. We
ougnt to reform their parenta^ lestthej
should imitate them; aad to destroy
those provocatives to vice, by winch the
present generation has been mtoxicated,
lest they should with equid force operate
upon the next.
There is, therefore, no occasion, my
lords, for any fwther delflMnnden upon
diis Bill ; which, if the nadon be yet in
any pint untainted, wiH infoct it; and if it
be universally corrupted, -wiD have do
tendency to amend it; aaH which wf
lassj
on ike ^rdumU-Lifmirs Bill.
A. D. 17*3,
fiaep
it Cor diMB renoiu to l«jec^ diiitiottr < eyitoiinfttion ; ttid tiiei«fcre il ei^bl to bo.
•^— *""" -^— -- — « 1^ —KUM- ir«.».^ 1 diaciMBed with that occorac^ which b pecu-
liar to a coniBttttoe.
Lord Lonsdale:
of vice tnav ht publicly bioirii,
and that no part of Uie
whidi
wickedneas must produce, may be imputed
to us.
Liord DeUnoar :
My lords; as I am entirely of opi-
nion that a more accurate examination of
this Bill will evince its usefulness and pro-
priety to many of the lords who are now
naost ardent in opposing it, I cannot but
think.it necessary to consider it in a com-
mittee. It is to be remembered, my lords,
that this Bfll is intended for two purposes
of very great importance to the public;
it is desi^ttsd that the liberties of mankind
shall be secured by the seme provisions by
^hich the vices of our oVm peoj^e are to
he reclahned, and supplies for carrying on
the wardiaB be raisea dv a reformation of
tlie manners of the people.
This, my lords, is surely a great and
generous diesign ; this is a compucation of
public benefits, worthy the most exalted
virtue, and the most refined policy ; and
thoi]R^ a Bill ni which views so distant are
to be reconciled, should appear not to be
absolutely perfect, it must be yet allowed
to disserve regard ; nor ought we to reject
without very cautious deliberation any
probable method of reforming the nation,
or any easy way of raising supplies. The
cncniadiment m usurpation without, and
the piendenoe of vice within, is a conjunc-
tion ofdrcumstancesveiy dubious; and
to remove both by tfie same means, is an
undertaking that surely cannot deserve
either censure or contempt; if it succeeds,
it may demand the loudest acclamations ;
and it it failst must beat least approved*
The use, my lords, of spirituous Kquon,
thougk, in the excess new so frequeaUv to
be obserred, Tmdoubtedly detrimental to
snidtittideB, is not, in a proper decree,
cither criminal or unwholesome ; and there-
fore ought not to be prohibited by a tax
80 heavy as has been proposed by a noble
lord, wno, if he pursues his reasoning,
must propose to tax in the same proportion
every otMr liquor that can administer to
vice. It is, however, oertain, that too
much is wasted in riot and dcAMmchery;
and that therefore some addition to the
price of this liquor ought to be made, thilt,
though the use of it may be continued,
the excess may he restrained. What will
be the effects of this Bill, and whether ei-
ther of these benefits are to be expected
firom it» can be known only by an impaxtial
My kirds ; that a Bill which shall
restrain the excess of drinking; distilled 11-
^ors without hindering' their moderate
use, Y^ill deserve the applause of eveiy
lover of his countay, I cannot deny.; but
that any such JBill ean be contrived, may
very jtistiy be doubted; for in proportion
to their price they wiU alwi^sbe used, and
nothing can hinder excess but a high tax,
nich as I have already proposeo.
The BID now before us, mv lords, will
indeed hy no means obstruct toe moderate
use,;beQause it will give an unbounded li-
cence to the most luxwious excess; W
therefore nothing more be intended in l|be
committee, than to consider how &r thte
1^ will promote the reformation of the
people, it ^is surely not necessary to en-
gase in any farther enquiries.
It hasap^/eared already, to those who do
not obstinately shut their eyes, that these
is in it no provision for the prevention ef
that abuse of spirits whidi nnivenallyfin-
vails. It has appeared, that the cheapness
of licences will not hinder the present re-
tailers from carrying on an illegfd trade ;
that informatioD will not now be more safe
or more Crequent than before, and that the
duty, if not in part evaded, may yet he
probably abated from the nresont profits of
the sale. It has appeared, my Une^, that
no effect can be produced by this BiU but
the promotion of debauchery, the increase
of curunkenness, the subv^sion of order*
and the decay of industry ; the miseries ef
disease, and the rage of want.
But that this am will not produce, at
least for some tin»e, a large addition to the
public revenues, has not yet been proved ;
and while it is sAlowed tiiat it will raise
money, I do not wonder to hear it steadily
dcdEbnUed, because nothiiM; more is ex-
pected from it. But as I have not yet
conversed enough with statesmen to per-
suade myself that the government ought to
be supported by means contrary to the
end for which government is instituted, I
am stOl convinced that this Bill ou^ht to
be rejected with contempt, because it will
lessen tiie wealth of the nation without any
equivalent advantage, and will at once im-
poverish tiie people, and corrupt them.
IheEarlof/ZBy/
My lords; I cannot butbe of opi-
1367] IS GEORGE IL
tiioQ Aat tbit debate has been carried «i
niUia vdiemenoe by no means neoessaiy,
and that the question has been peqilexed
by a mistaken zeal ; that the effocu of this
Bill have been exa|sgerated i)erhaps on
both sides, and that the opinions which
hare been formed with rehttion to it» are
not really so opposite as they appear.
Those who oppose the Bill, think ihe duty
upon spirits not so high as to hinder that
debauchery which so much prevails among
us: and those that Tindicate it, declare
that more violent restraints will not be
borne. Both parties have reason, and the
▼indicators of the Bill have likewise expe-
rience, on their side.
But, my lords, though severe restraints
wddenly opposed to the habits and incli-
nations of the people, operating in their
full force, may oe broken through by rest-
less struffgles, and obstinate resistance,
▼et a dinunution of those gratifications will
be borne which cannot wholly be taken
away, and the same laws, introduced by
proper dqmes, will be patiently obeyed:
this tlierefore mqr be very properly consi-
desed as the first tax necessary to be laid,
which, though it may produce no great
'efiiM:ts m itself, may at least make way for
a second that shall be more sensibly felt,
till at length these fatal spirito shall be
vaised to a price at which few will be able,
and none wiUmg, to purchase one pleasure
of drunkenness.
But it is not impossible that even this
tax, with the other provisions in the Bill,
may produce the reformation which is
unanimously desired ; and as violence
should never be used till gentle methods
have been tried, this Bill ought, in my
opinion, to be passed, and therefore to be
teferred to a committee without further
debate; forit will be thought both by our
allies and our enemies, that a great part of
this House is very indifferent about the
success of the war, if we delay the sup-
- plies, by disputing in what manner they
shall be raised.
^ Hie question being then put on the mo«
tion for committing the Ml, it was re-
solved in the aflirmative. Contents 59,
Phixies 23; 83. Not Contents S8,
Proxies 16 ; 54. Lord Delawar was
Teller for the Bill, and lord Hervey against
it. Of the latter were ten bishops, being
' all that were then in the House.*
* ** It was remarked on this ocession, tbst
there beiDf? ten preUten in the House, they all
iivided against the qu^tipn ; upon which the
DehtU in tke Lords
tUGB
February 94^ Ilieir loidslups hanig
gone into a conmittee on the amd BiD,
brd Delawar in the chair.
Lord Lonsdak rose and said i*
My lords: notwithstanding the
specious arguments which were used to
ear! of Chesterfield seeing them come towards
him, said, he doubled if ^be had not misiakea
the side, not having had the bonoor of tbetr
company for many years." Gentleman's Ma-
gasioe.
* From ihe Seeker Mamaeript.
Feb. 94. Th^ Hease id a ComoMCtee oo tbe
BillrdatinglsSpirttuoosIiqaMR: Lnri
Delawar iirthe Chair.
Luudaie. All the lords who bave spoka
have agreed* that the duty is |iropeaeJ mA»
low [or little,] and thercfhre as tbe mischii^ is
creat, deftrring a remedy to tbe next jfcar is
inexcusable. Bat \fyna do not remedy it dov,
yon can never do it, till the Commoos by oo
another tax oa these liqaors. Siaoe tbe
sisckcniogof theprosecotioaa^ the lucitami bath
been g[realer than ever. This abcwa tfaattfae
adoiioistration bath not had the aAdr oa tfadr
thoughts. This Bill is calcolated lor raisiag
money, and nothing else. B<£t Ibr the OKmey
yon bad never bad it. Nobody tboofirbt of
caring tbe evil. Therefore stop this Bill for
not curing it: and tbe^ will gire yoa a good
one : If not, notbinir will be done. *
If one nUllion of galkms oot of the sevea
distilted be emfployed in good nsea, tfaetcanis-
ing 6, at 4 a pint each, will make 96 aailKons
drunk at once, and one-tenth pait of it,
9,600.000. And if each drankenness Iom
the laboar of one day at a shilling, it is 480,000^
lost. 8iz millions of gallons will give 10 gal-
lons a year, which is near a qoartem a day, id
600,000 persons. If one in 90 of these are
killed, it is eo,000 peraons a year : if one in SO
more disabled it*is ao,000 more t if one id 6 is
a woosan, and one ia SO of these with cbiU,
there wiU probably be 5,000 ohildrea destinyrd
thus: ifoneinfiOfNTtbemhaththeeareofyeiinfr
children and gives them this liqnor^ here wm
be 5,000 more destroyed. And do yoa see
this, and will you delay the cure for one year
certain, and you know not bow many raere ?
It is beyond tramanity to hear doioSf so. Lords
said the ether day, they admitted all that oeold
besaid: I eannotheheveit. IfyoaaooMas*
semble these people and see them in this csodt-
tion, is there one roan oould say, ' This shall
continue so till next year ?* It doth not beloog
to human nature. I move therefore, that the
noble lord may leave the chair. Aflor which I
would propose, that this matter may be ad-
jooned to this day sevennight: and against
that time have an aecount from the niimateni
of parishes, physicians, jnstiees, pfinonial
tradesmen and antiiccfs, of tbe ei^ oC this
3693
an the SfrtrUwm Liquors BiU.
A. D. 174S.
[1379
nfluence die House to permit this Bfll to
28cape die oonure it deserved, and be ad*
nitted to a farther exammation in a com-
nittee, I an still confident that nothinff
cnik jusdybe offered in its defence; and
Eiin not afraid to dedore my opinion, that
tiqiMnr. This will oeitainly Ibroir out the pre-
aent Bill : tod we msy have aaoiber this year.
At le^ it will shew the CoaaittOBS and the
ailministration the necessity of doing something
further hereafter.
A long silence.
Jiay. What the noUetonl hath said, he ae^
kDowTetlges tends to throw out the Bill. It
would have bees proper at the second reading :
it will be proper at the third ; but not now.
Tbe CooBOMlSee sita only to amend the Bill.
^^U^ord, We cannot amend this Bill:
thcrcfote resoroe the Hoosa» sad postpone it
till tlie Commons shall know tbe ceooem you
are in ooon the suliject : and that yon expect
a Sill of snother nature from them.
jFIi^. The Commons cannot send up another
Bill OD this snl^iect till this in thrown out :
amendoienti to this Bdl, I beliere in the end
would b^ frmdeM. But it hsth nercr been
advaneed that yon cannot amend such Bills.
Yon may do it legally.
AyUrford. I am as far from giring up that
point, as any lord. But we all know the prac-
tice s and i would not hare a dispute of this
imtare arise at present. The Committee of
Supply is still open : and the Commons may
teke aoother way of raising tbe money.
Bedferd. The intention of the aoble lord,
who made the motion, was,- thai the House
mii^t be so informed as either to amend the
Bill, or throw it out. If von amend it, the
CoiDonona will not psss it : out they will make
another like it
Carteret, No remedy can be contritred ade-
quate to the erit at once. This is a step. The
matter is understood better than it was : and
there ma^ be further steps taken. But anro»
hibition will destroy our own. distillery. Tnere
is a great exportation of thb licpjor. But a
anoall pa^ofitissousedastodo barm. No-
thing but an army, ten times greater than I hope
there erer will .be in this nation, eould hare
executed 9 Geo. 9, and perhaps not that. All
I hat you can do will not save one life of those
vr ho will drink it. There is a poisonous liquor
ID Irdand called sheepy. There are laws
a^iastit: but they signify nothing. Nobody
nells it : but all the oomnMu people drink it.
If a high duty be bid on it, your own spirits
will be. carried out, and the drawback taken,
and they will be run in again. If this efil
cannot be pre? ented, STail yourself es of the
nioney arising from it. Hcmember the em-
iieror Vespasian*s saying. AAer what bath
bees spoken in these debates, th'u> affair will be
considered at some other time. And when this
Bill is pMSad, it will be liked.
Htriey* Money was the tot argument for
it is net approved even by diose who vin-^
dicate it ; of whom I cannot but beliere,
from long experience of their judgment
and then: knowledge, that the^ consider it
only as an easy manner of raising moner,
as an expedient rather necessary than efi-
this BilL When that was espkided, lessening
the consnmntion of these liquors was tbe next.
This proTsu weaker still : and now a retreat is
made to the first This Bill is called an ex-
periment. Do not make an experiment upon
the lives of the people, but rather upon a hitle
money. If money fiuls, you know bow to sup-
ply it : but do not punish the narion capitally.
WouM you let as many people run goods as
please, prorided they will pay so much to the
senrtceof theyearP *No: the revenue would
suffer by tbst But if the lives of tbe psMle
are in question, you will not regard that. But
no law will prevent this evil. Nor will any
law prevent robbery. But will you theraibre
let every man take out a licence to rob, and
increase the revenue by that means? Yet
would not tiist be as good as to say, Let every
man that will, take a licence to destroy bim*
self and hisportortty. It is beneath the House
to be trying to split hairs upon forms in nuuiers
of such a nature. Iiet the House beresmned,
snd tbe Bill dropt. J)o not say to the peqile.
There are 50,000 houses open, go into any of
them that you will, and kill yourselves. Put
the former act in execution, til anotho' can be
provided ; and do not throw away your pre*
sent medicine till you have a better.
Bath. The Bill, as it now stands, is not suf.
ficient ; but it will not bear near what was
moved the other day. Tbey who talk of pro*
bibitions do not know what they say. As fee
putting tbe matter off" for a fortnight or tbfea
weeks, so late in tbe session, may not tbe com-
mittees of supplies and ways and means ba
closed ? If they are, it roust he a new sesskm.
To bring in the same Bill with a new title will
be ridiculed,- Gentlemen are gone into the
country, and think the supplies over: wUI yon
have a new supply, snd a new tax now ? It
will be hard to find one, against which nobody
hath any objection ; whkb was the case of the
present, till it came to this House. Beindcs,
msy not a considerable pert of this supply be
already advanced P There* is a million or annui-
ties, and 800,000/. and 500,0001. all at 3 per
cent These will be loose sgain: and they
who have lent at 3 will have 4. or 5. E^cn
what kMrds have painted so dreadfully, cannot
do more harm m a vear than this will do.
There may be a great benefit of raising money
so cheap : enabling you to carry on a vi^rous
pushing war ; and when it is over, to sink the
rest of the government securities to 3 per cent,
which will add 450,000/. a year to the Sinkmg
Fund. But what effect will rnecting this
Bill have abroad ? It must retanl the opera-
tions : and that just when tbe Dutch are come
in. This very duty will greatly lower tbe ex*
iSri] 16 GEORGE IL
gible, and such m only the ex^Mies oS
the govenmieDt conlihaTe prerfiled upoik
them to propote ; for nothing is mote evi*«
denty than that it canD6t ftaawet Ae pat"
poses of the former BilL
This, hovre^er harsh it may appear^ and
I oomplsined of. If it were Ss^f yoa would
tend them to Holland to liav efaeapen Or all
now a great deal teot from nenoe is nm back
upon us, as Fr^ck : so if tfite doty i^ere
higher they would g^ a higiier drawback
from the pvnlic, carry it out to sea, ran it in»
and sell it cheaper than ever. A tax of 50,000/. a
year upon drunkenness wiil lessen it. The pro*
dace or the present doty is 170,000/. this Bill,
if the consumption be e^oal, should raise it to
SiOgOOO/. and it will never he S50,000. If this
doth not do, I would add : and it may bear
sixpence.
Ta&ot, Persohs are brought into the S per
Oent annuities by the pleasure of tlie lottmyi
8o you raise money by gaming, and pay it by
driakiog.
Lomdale, 1 hava been talkkig of tkelifves
and morals of the people, and the osndition of
the next generation: and I am etaswerisd,
Thf Commitlee of Supplies may be ebaad, ihd
CemoBDos must sit a fortnight loagar, the
manuftustnre will go to decay. This k& is Ihe
thing 1 want : so far as it exceeds wholesome
nse. The consideration of the lives of the neo*
pie makes no impression on lords. Let those
who can give a better account of these mattera
be heard, and itwiMmakean hnprcssido. Shall
the governnfent avail themMlm of the peo-
pled death ? It shall be remedied, Ihey say,
anotfier year : but they must avail tberanelves
of dhose who are to be killed this year. Why
wosAd interest rise, if tliis Bill were rejecsed P
The money appears so ready, that people will
not know what to do i^ith it else. Let all ^
world nnderstand that this Bill was stopt merely
hseanse it was a wrong one, that no money is
wanting: and the same sum will be given
an^tber way in three weeks time. There is no
tirade vrhh these spirits, but mere pretence^
For the other nations of Europe have them
oheaper or better than you : aad they can
make them cheaper in tlie Wctot indies.
Therefore I would take off the drawback.
Privato enquiries are nOt Sufficient about these
matters. Let all that dan be said npdn them,
be brought into a JM)dy.
NtwcMtle, How do we know thai, if we
reject this Bill, the Commons will send op ano-
ther on this subject. Suppose they should
leave the Gin Bill just as it is ; sappose they
had sent up no Bill in relation to it, but pro-
Txled the money another way, would any lord
have complained? [Yes: many have com-
plained: but as a House they cannot, without
•uch an opportuni^ as this.] 8ome have
thought even the present duty so high, as that
it would bring in ibreign spuits. Bot I own
this dnty is not high enoagb. And if this Bill
l»sAa/^^<Ae£ordk [1999
ho^er InooMiateDt wilk Unit
ivdih #hidi,tfaodebl;taB of tkis ]
genci'sly bceti oui'iad on^.msna omhkj ha
pardoned on tbis oecaaioii^ if fcr ftp odicr
reason, at leUst for Htm, tfaftt it in noa tmt§
to forbear it, it is tasposaUe wholly ao
r ^mea in ae lea^
lave a better nemyear." Thetewaaai
tion in the hist Gm Act. And there
another.
Sandwich, The more people «ne this li«
quor, the more they will want it: and they
wiil dHiik mske dniler the preieclisa oTthafaw,
than now.
Bathmm. My oalcatetiono have hum m
treated, that I will |(o no fartfaertban tosij,
that levery penny laid on will wodsmnaMSBdf
Stf. Ifyoa rote the duty tookigbstfaeDliflh
Witt run their spirits opOnyoo^ aad 3rosBr pasfii
wiM be drank St their profit
BalhursK
Oknu^kk Thcreisnlortn%ht%dslBysn
onesidessiadthebeallhof the peaploan Ha
Mhefv Ai^mnente diawu' iram wimt amy It
done m anatUer flense, shall new hatf* wc^
a^hhme. Why n it the taller end of Iha am.
sion now ? I know of no latSer cad. Iha
Committee of Smpliesisnoteloaed. lisitesB
Monday next The motteT ^
dily, not from any particular
iE>rinking Fund : out on aeoani]
of the other fdnd. Orit iseiriMcribedfbrtitt
sakeoftbefamiagpartofthenohenae; wUA
IdonothkeP It cannot hnven had «fleet,ftst
donM pass a BiHof Hof«ftlky oa Hmosh^
SAod If yon do pasithiaBiU^liowdo jes
r that you shall bver Imve an ofvpettasiw
of remedy mgibe evil r I hellere ttee fnad ni
produce a great deal, and will be a vwy pka»
ing eapeiiosent. But hdnunialnatioas are ae*
Ter willing to part with a frditfiil
tax: and persons are seidoaiTery I
lives of their enemies. Therefon
not part vrath this. «« Let na avail oanshFrnsr
the destrodiDn of the people.*' A fine aiai!
Wfto mast support the goivetiiaseat ihmf
Thds^aredoesnnes maintained aa where. Isl
in the** Fable of the Bees:", a mast dm adMi
hOok, which eeods to the destroction of al ms-
vality and all decency. Tbns the Fspeank
himself of vrhomdom. A nohle lord hsali mt^
tiooted the tax, which Vespasian Inid oa a »
rituons liquor of another kind, that wodM ast»
deed admit of a tot^ pohibition. Bat he em
despised even Ibr this, ^ a raeaaneas. BA
had be laid snch a tax as the preaeat, it waril
have been mentioned with horror. 1 am ssrt
the first resource for our new measmea, ahim
I hoped woold have been fimiided npea vatse^
is drunkenness and gaming. Tfaoe are tfci
spring fruits of the admiasstratiaat and m
people win jodgd of the tree bf hs fiailB, 1 lea
the autumnal ones will be bad. Vioaawilbi^
offences will oorae: bot won toiha nna ly
4
«7S]
on the Splriiucus Xiyuors BIX*
upprets it ia the mpid ; and to forbear to
peak what cannot but be thought, is no
mn of the duty of a public couniellor.
The conduct of those whose station
lobjects them to the resentment of tlie
ninistty, or who may be reasonably ima-
nned to expect favours from them, has,
nroughout all our deliberations on this
ND, been such as evidently discovers their
nlj care to be the imposition of a new
ax, and the establishment of a new fund,
rhey do not seem to urge seriously any
iCher argument than the necessity of rais-
Dg money, or to oppose the obieetions
bat have been o^ed, for any other rea-
on than because they have a tendency to
tetmct the supplies. No other argument
tti, indeed, be urged in vindication of a
lill whid^ every principle of policy or
■stice must incite us to condemn ; a Bill
J which the sense of morality and reli-
lOD will be extinguished, and the re»
knynts of law made ineffectual ; by which
lie labourer and manufacturer will be at
nee debilitated and corrupted, end by
iiioh the roads will be filled with thieves,
nd the streets with beggars.
It appears, my lords, from the papers on
le table, that seven millions of gallons are
rery year distilled ; and experience shews
Sy that the quality of the liouor is audi,
lat a quarter of a pint is sumdent to in-
ncicate the brain. Upon this compota-
on, my lords, it is reasonable to beueve,
bom they come. * Cloi oon vetat, jabet.'
be duty of 9 Geo. S, was not laid on tlie'stUl-
sad : and by that means it bad not the ef-
ct. It is not -meant the doty should be i^
ohibitioD to all, but to the common people.
Is said, raise it by degrees. If yon should
Kl into the fire, would yqo bid your servant
ill you out by degi^ees ? At least make one
aendment, leave out Lords. ' Spiritual' both
reverence to their character, and justice to
eir conduct.
lifiy. This debate bath been contrary to or-
r. There are two ways for rejecting a Bill,
aaoDing it out, and laaghing it out. Each
kth been tried by the greatest genius in each
ay. 9 Geo. fi, is the absurdest of all sys-
□OS : and I should hare though the projector a
in Drinker, if we had not all known him to be
e soberest of men. All the drinkers would be
r the continuance of that Act, and are afraid
this Bill.
iliiastioD, that the House be resume^.
N.C.
C.
56.
Both sides, I think, consisted of the same
Rvoof : only lord Carlisle was 9M net te be
A. a 1748. [1574
that a twentieth part of the labouring handi
of this nation are detained from theh* pro-
per occupations by this kind of drunkaa*
nets; and consequently that a twentieth
part of the trade is every year loat» or
perhaps a twentieth part dr our people
every year hurried to the gmve, or cbs.
abled from contributing to the piiblio good.
These, my lords, are no doubtful ft^ts or
conjectund calculations, they are con*
fimied by the most incontestable evidence,
and established by all the demonstration,
of arithmetic; and therefore your lord-
shipa ar£ ui no dang^ of error from either
ignorance or uncertainty, but must deter*
mine, if you approve this Bill, in opposi-
tion to all the powers of conviction, and
must set aside testimony and reason at the
same time. These facts, my lords, are sa
plain, that the warmest advocates for the
Bill have tacitly acknowledged them, by
proposing that, if it be found ine&ctua^
It shall tie amended the next session.
What effiK:t this proposal may have upon
others, I know not ; but, for my part, I
shall never think it allowaUe to sport with
the prosperity of the public, or to try ex*
penments by which, if they fail, the livea
of diousands must be destroyed. Such a
scheme, my lords, very ill becomes thoso
towhofn their aaoestors have transmitted
the illustrious character of goaidiaas of
the people; for surdy such crod^ waa
never practised by the utmost wantonness
in the House. And the bishop of Rochester
was not there. But the bishop ef Bristol was^
and ?oted with the Cont^ts.
Sandwich, Several lords fre coming t^
town. Defer the third reacfing ti|[ Tpes4ay.
Carteret. Read it to-morroiw.
Rervey, This looks as if time and conside-
ration would hurt the BiH. A jui^ of any
twelve men in England, eiGeepdae fhose whe
have voted for it, wonU bring it In Goihy oif
Murder,
Cholmandel^, Tbb is not decent Ir^tnieot
of a Bill, fffaich hath {Mssed th^ coipmiitjset
and of tne lords who are for it. I hare n«a
deserved it (rom the noble lord, and I appeal to
the Rouse.
Bedford, No law is conclnded hf the dM-
sions that have been on thb BiB: and the
hardest words may be used aboot it till it is
passed.
Talbot, '
Question pot ibr relying it on VH^efday.
N. C. 52.
C. 29.
The bishop of Chichester was N. 6. the
other bUiops^.
ldT5] 16 GEORGE U.
of tyranny, or the most savage rag^ of in*
vasion. No man ever before conceived
the desi^ of scattering poison for a cer-
tain period of time among, the people, only
to try what havock it would make.
What will be the effects of unrestrained
tod licensed debauchery may be known,
wi&out the guilt of so dreadful an experi-
ment, onlv by observing the present con-
fluct of the people, ev^n while they are
hindered from the fiill enjoyment of thmr
pleasures, by the terrors or a penal law.
Whoever shall be so far touched with the
interest of the public, as to extend his en-
quiries to the lowest classes of the people,
will find some diseased, and others vitiated;
he will find some imprisoned by their cre-
ditors, and others starving their children ;
And if he traces all these calamities and
crimes to their original cause, will find
tliem all to proceed from the love of dis-
tilled liquors.
I know, my lords, that in answer to all
these expostulations, and a thousand more,
it will be urged by Uie ministers and their
friends, that there is no other method to
be found of raismg the supplies, and that
the demands of the government must be
satisfied at whatever rate, and by whatever
HAaUmiheLordi
[\m
Though I am very far from approving
this assertion, I do not wonder at its pre-
valence among those who are enrichea fay
every tax, and whose only claim to the
preferments which they enjoy, arises fr<Nn
their readiness to concur m every scheme
for increasing .the burdens of the public ;
and therefore shall never expect their ap-
probation of any proposal, by which a new
tax may be retarded ; yet I cannot but
declare that, in my opinion, we ought to
suspend our proceedings, that the Com-
mons may discover what danger their neg-
ligence, precipitation,.or blind compliance^
has hroudit upon the nation; and that
the people may, by so signal a proof of
our disiqpprobation, be alarmed against
«ny attemfit of the same kind under any
future adininistration.
Tliis, my lords, will be considered, not
only by posterity, but by all the wise and
honest men of the present time, as a proof
i)f our regard for vulue, and our attention
to the p!3)lic wel&re. This conduct will
be secretly approved, even by those who
may think themselves obliged to oppose it
in public ; and, as it will be moderate and
decent, may probably preserve the nation
^theut irritating -the other House.-*-!
therefore move, my lords, that instead of
proceeding in th^ superfiooos foru of a
committee, we should resume the Hook,
and endeavour to obtain &ither infixna-
tion.
The Earl of Ckolnumddey s
My lords; the observatioiis which,
though siuBdently explained and enforced
in the late debate, the noble lord has been
pleased to repeat on thb occasion, are in
themselves, mdeed, sufficiently pertinent,
and have faieen uiged by his lonuhip with
uncommon spirit and elesance; but he
ought to have reflected, Uuit general de-
dications are improper in a committee,
where the particular clauses of the Bill are
to be separately considered. I propose,
therefore, that instead of wasting that tlmei
of which the exigencies of the public noir
require an uncommon frugality, in usdess
rhetoric, and untimely vebonence, we
should proceed to examine in order the
distinct paragraphs of this Bill, by which
it may more easily appear, wfa^her h
ought to be rejected or iqppnnred«--li
cannot indeed be proposed, that any d
the dauses shall be amended in this com^
mittee ; for the claims of the Commons,
and the obstinacy with which they have
always adhered to them, on whatever thei
are founded, is well known. I am o^
enough to remember the animosities whid;
have arisen between the two Houses froBi
attempts to adjust this part of their pre-
tensions; animosities which at this time
nuiy be not only dangerous to oursdves,
but fatal to a great part of mankind^ and
which it ought theraore to be our utmoM
care not to excite.
The Earl of A^lesford .-
My lords; though theconsideratioi
of the distinct paragraphs of the Bill be,
as the noble lord has very justly observed,
the proper business of the committee ; yei
since, as he has likewise observed, the pie-
sent state of our afiairs requires unususi
expedition, I think we may very proper))
spare ourselves the trouble of coDsideriog
panttraplis which we cannot amend, and
whicn are in themsdves so clear and sc
obvious, that they may be understood in
their full extent upon a cursory p&naaiL^
But, my lords, though I think it not pro-
per to follow our usual method of con
siderinff the paragrsmhs distmctlj, wtud
can omy drive the Bill forward toward
the third reading, as it has already bees
forced into the- committee; yet I think ii
not necsfsary to irritate the other Housfi
1S7TJ
ofiliU SfkimitiJJmn BSL
»y reject»v tJMt BjO Vf wbiefa jl ip in^
rfaero if m^i^mf /ap4 modarato waCbod bjr
mtapy 4isftirtt»PP rfUiepuMic, any ip>'
ladinwplofiWichfinwof m far^ nteooW
» aay jiwt ofimw to th» Comaaiii. fo-
tead i£ jpmmg or la^eotiBg Ihif Bill* «f
rbich tba fiitt li abitaitf t^ piiiMal, and
be saeond parfaapt MnproMr, Jat «8 only
May it, by wUdt wa tkaB fVfe tha Caii»-
non3 UaBe iQraflaetUfHMi it» tara-aiQmina
ty aad di«cav«r, whal thmr parhap bava
K>t hitharto iinpectad, ito cMruabva taa*
bocy. Viof eaa it be doubtadt bui tba
ibsertratUHif which will ariie <raai iba n^
lemity af aoqairiiig iata tba aiatpo» af
nvr ^QoAvietf mil paon ioduaa th«n la
orm BDotbar Bill oat UaUa ta Iba aasM
^jacftioQ0; I cbefefare iaaood tba ndble
ord'fl matiaa to raamaa tba HaiMa*
Mylaids; if ara oaaijdartba yaa*
esmooB of the CoouoaM* and tba flub*
loraae^s wilii whieh tbav bwra bitbarto
kdbecfid ta thanii wa aball aa»)y find iha
naprapria^ of tba iKiUa lord^ motioai,
nd farafae tbe inaScacy of tba aaatbadt
rbicb be ao wanaly reaommandi. Tba
Jarm yMdk ha fvppasap us to cito tba
^ommaiii by poitpoabiff tba Bm bafara
i^tha ob^anratioDB whi^ thi^ will aiaba
ipoa our condaet, tba new lafonaatiaM
irhicb tbey arill raaaira, and tbe jmm BBl
irbidi thay wiU lead, avi avnraly imagiaary.
rbey win nU coa»dar tbanamvai m can-
«nMd in tba delay or axpaditioii of our
irocadwa» but will suppoiawto act ispoa
*ur awB a^atooa, wbicb it is not oaoassaiy
or tbam to aiMBi]>a» aad wiU by no aoaans
end aaotber BiS for aupplias» tdl thqr are
oformed that Ibis is lajactad. Thus, ny
ordsy wa shidl auly retard the suppiias»
rithoat altering^ or beiag able to allart
he method of raising them ; and at last
»as8 that BiUy^ without examioatian* wbicb
ra fM>wiie^act toaxaaaiaaylest wa should
lass it ; or parbaps irritite Aa Cdaunona
|y tba novelty of our conduct, whiob, if
hcry should rasdva to coosidcr it, tbajr
rill probably oonsidar only to
The Earl of Aj^es/brd ;
IM^ lords; I am no strasM lo tba
Janns of the Commons to thesoUaadin*
lependent right of fonaiog Monayi-Billi,
lor ta tba bant wJA wbicb that dim bas
laea assarted, or IbafinHMSSYriib wbicb
[V0L.X1I0
4. a 174ff, p»8
it has alwrnbaan maiflUiaad A teeyatlia*
QMttUu STor sas I igaarant, that by^coa*
taslinsrtbis daias, we bava sonastimes «»»
cited aiaputas wUcb a^xthiagbttt a piorogaip
tioa of parliameBt could appease, i
kaowp aiy lords, and allow, that hv acting
ta any unusual manner with ragara t^ Klia
of this kiisd, wa aiay etKcite tbe resaatosanl
of tba CoBiiaoos, and that same iatenaip*
tion of tba public businaas may, for waa&
af candour andaoodaration, possibly eniua^
But, my lords, I eaa»at think the pas^
sibiUty of an itf ooaasMyuanca an argiumana
suficjant to show the Buiaasonableoess of
my proposal; lor the iaeowraaienees thai
may ansa fram pastponing the B31 aaa
0B& pcrwible, but tbe cdamitiaB Ibat wia
shall briujg upan our aoimtry by passing it
are certain.
But we ana liioewjae to cansidar, mf
lords, that these events, of wbidb it cav
only be said that they may hainpen, may
also not himpen. When I reflect, that
tba Hause or Caatanasis is an asstebly of
naasaaabla baiaga, that it is filled by tba
rapipesantatiras of the Britkb popfe, by
man who will ifcara tba cabumtioi of tba
puUic^ and whosa inteaeat it is equally
wjtb ouiv to paarent the dastroclian af
oar comaaarce, tbe dacmr af our manuiae^
t^Snss, tbe canopdon of the present aga»
and tba ruin of postarilr, leanaatbutbapa
tbit thay will apply tbamaalvaa ta a can-
did i^aw af ttia Bai which thay haiw
sent,s«d witbootbaat, jaalouay«ord]apttta%
as^ain it as th^ may da by anatbert
wbicb wiU be no aenataon firom the ruka
wbicb thay bavaastabHahad for Aamaetra^
and by which thay may sacniw the bap^
ptoass af tbair country wjtbout laosdti^g
mm their awn preteomons.
The Duke tsfBe^/brd:
My brdsi tba prDpoaal made by
ihenalria lard appears to me so prudent
and aqnitabla, so modecate and so se»»
aonahia» and in my opinion, auggestsao
easy a method of recondltng the preteni-
sions of the Commons with the necessity
af amending the Bill, diet I cannot hot
thisdk it womy of tba unanimous nproba*
tionofyourlorddiipa. lamTerynrfrom
aancaiamgtba Commooatobaanaasam-
htyof man deaf to reaaon, or imagming
them ao void of idl regard for the hap-
pinem of tbe public, as that they will aa-
cnfioe h ta an obatinata adherenoe to
cUma whidi tbey cannot but know to ba
in theosaalfaa dvputable, and of which
they miiBt>*at laaat, a^ew that Ifaey aar
ISTSlj 16 6BORGA IL
onlj ao hr juil as they conttilHite to the
gntLt end of goverament, the g^eneral
good. But lest they should by any per-
Irene and unseasmxable obstinacr attend
more to the preservation of theit own
power, liian to the promotion of die hap-
piness of their constituents^ a method is
ftow proposed, by which the errors of this
Bill tnay be corrected, without any conces-
sion- cf either House. The Commons may
easily be informed of the dangers which are
justly dreaded from this Bill ; and may
therefore prepare another, by which a tax
of the same kmd may be l«d, without a
general licence of drunkenness ; or if a
method of laying a dutj upon these liquors,
w^ich.may at once hmder their excessive
lias, and increase the revenue of the go-
iremment, cannot be discovered, they may
false the supplies for the year by some
other sdieme.
Lord Carteret z
My lords ; as Uie expedient pro-
posed by these noble lords, however it
may be recommended, as being at once
moderate and efficacious, has in reality no
other tendency than to procure an abso-
lute rejection of this Bill, it is proper to
consider the consequences which may be
reasonably expected from the measures
which they have hitherto proposed. In
order to the eftctual restraint of the com-
Bson people from the use of these per-
nicious hquors, they assert the necessity
of imposing a very large dut^ to be paid
by the distiller, which niurht indeed pro-
duce in some degree the effect which they
oxj^ct from it, but would produce it by
givmg rise to innumerable trauds and in-
conveniences. . The immediate conse-
quence of a heavy duty would bo the rum
of oar distillery, which is now a very ex-
tensive and profitable trade, in which great
mukitudes are employed, who must in-
stantly, upon the cessation of it, sink into
•poverty. Our stilUi, my lords, not only
supply our natives with liquors which they
used formerly to purchase from foreign
countries, and therefore increase, or at
least preserve the wealth of our country ;
but they likowise furnish large quantities
for exportadon to Guernsey, Jersey, and
' other pkttss* But no sooner will the doty
proposed^ to be laid upon this liquor take
places than all this trade will be at an end,
smd^ose.whonow follow it will be re-
duced to support themselves by other em-
plbyments ; and those countries in wiiich
;o«r spitits are now draak^ wiU beaoon sup-
Dtktte in the Lordi [ISR9
plied from other natioBS- with Uipioii tf
onc6 dieaper and more f^easaot.
It may t>e proposed as an expedient for
the preservation of our foi^eign trade, ^
the duty shall be repaid upon exportation ;
but the event of this proyiaioo, my lords,
will be, tlmt great quantities will be Mot
to sea for the sake of obtaining a re-psj-
ment of the duty, which^ instead of betag
sold to foreigners, will be privatdy Isnded
again upon our own coasts, llios, n^
lords, will the duty be collected, and af-
terwards repaid; and the goVlemment viD
sufer ibe odium of imposinr a severe tax,
and incur the expence of employing a
great number of officers, without any ad-
vantage to the public. Spirits wiU, in
many parts of fhe kingdom, be very little
dearer than at present, and droakennea
and debaudiery will stiU prevafl.
That these arts, and a thousand othen,
will be practised by the people to obtain
this infatuating liquor, cannot be doubted.
It cannot be imagined that they will for-
bear frauds, who have had recourse to vio^
lence, or thist those will not endeavour to
dude the government, who have already
defied it^— Every rigorous law wiD be
other secretly evaded, or openly violsted;
every severe restramt will be shaken dF
either by artifice or vice; nor can this
vice, however dangerous or prevrient, be
corrected but by slow degrees, by straiten*
ing the reins of government impercepti-
bly, and by superadding a second sbgbt
restraint, after the nation has been for
some time habituated to the first That
the goveimment proceecb by these essj
and gentle methods of reformation, ongbt
not to beimpoted to negiigenoe, bat neces-
sity ; fbr so far has the govemmeat beev
firom any connivance at Uiia vice, ^ an
armed force was necessary to support tbe
laws which were made to restram it, and
secure the chief persons of the state from
the insults of the populace, whom tbij
had only provoked by denying them tbu
pernicious liquor. •
Since therefore, mjr^lords, all oppontion
to this predominant inclination has ap-
peared without effect, since the gofem*
ment evidently wants power to conquer
the united and incessant struggles for the
liberty of drunkenness, what remains but
that this vice should produce some^ ad-
vantage to the public, in return for tbe
innumerable evils which arise from it, and
t^at the government should snatch the
first opportunity of taxmg that vice which
cannot bo reformed.^ Ilusdtt^ariiei)hh
«I3
Oft the SffSriimmt lifufffs BUL
•A. D, 17W.
[un
!ed» ftoai a conoHtteace tf Wkwat
Misesy'of jiMt desigostfitbegcnponment,
id of bod ui€luiatioDfrin;t]M people. Tbe
X 18 ju$t, and well oMapt ; biU it can he
ade sufficient to aopport the expenoes to
hich it 18 appropriated, only by the reeo-
Uon aS the populace ta*continue in some
icree their uaual luxury
I am fitfj my loids, from dunkine this
lethod of raising moaey. eligible lor its
wn sake, or justifiable bv any olliev plea
lan that of necessity. If it were poouble
; once to extinguisn the thirst or spirits,
9 man who had any rq;ard forvirtue, or
T happiness, would propose to augment
le revenue by a tax upon them, fiut,
\y lords, rigour has been aLready tried,
ad found to be vain ; it has been found
^ually fruitless to forbid the people to use
>int8, as to forbid a man in a dropsy to
rink* The force of appetite long in-
ulged, and by indulgence piade superior
> the qontroul of reason^ is not to be
vercome at once ; it cannot be subdued
y a single effort, but may be weakened ;
ew habits of a more innpcent kind may
I time be superinduced, and one desire
uiy couaterbalance another.
We must endeavour, my lords, by just
egrees, to withdraw their affections from
liis pernicious enjoyment, by making the
ttainment of it ^ery year somewhat more
ifficult : but we must not quicken their
rishes, and exasperate their resentment,
y depriving them at. once of their whole
slicity. By this method* my lords, I
oubt not but we shall obtain what we
ave hitherto endeavoured with so little
uccess; and I believe that though, in
pen defian<5e of a severe law, spirits are
ow sold, in ever^ street of this city, a
entle restraint will, in a short time, divert
!ie minds of the people to other enter-
linments, and tlie vice of drinking spirits
ill be forgotten among us.
!Lord Hervey :
My lords; though I have always
ODsidered this Bill as at once wicked and
bsurd, I imagined till now that the pro-
actors of it would have been able to have
rgued at least speciously, though not
>lidlY, in defence of it ; nor did I ima-
ine It to have been wholly indefensible,
11 1 discovered how little the extensive
nowled^e, the long experience, and tlie
enetrating foresi^t of the noble lord
rho spoke last, enabled him to produce in
indication of iL His lordship^s argument
\ redudUe to this single assertion^ that
tke-drhkteg distilled liquon amnot be-
prelwnted ; and from thence he drew.diis
inference, that sinoe it is a point of wis-
dom to turn misfortunes to aavanti^, wwr
ought to contrive methods by which tbei
debauchery of the people may enrich the*
government.
Though we should suppose the asser*
tion true in any sense below that ofabaok
lute physical impossibility, the inference is
by no means just ; since it is the dn^ of
governors to struj^le agabst vioe, and pro«
mote virtue with incessant assiduity, not*
withstanding the difficulties that may lor ai
time hinder the wisest and most ri^osous * ^
measures from success. That governor-
who desists from his endeavours .of re«
formation, because th^ Imve been once
baffled, in reality abandons his station and
deserts hisjcharge, nor deserves any other
character than that of laziness, negligence^
or cowardice.
The preservation of yirtue wiiere it sub-
sists, and the recovery of it where it is
lost, are the only valuable purposes of go-
vernment. Laws which do not promote
these ends are useless, and those that ob-
viate them are pernicious. The govern-
ment that takes advantage of widied in-
clinationsy by accident predominant in the
people, and, for any temporary conve-
nience, instead of leading them back to
virtue, plunges them deeper into vice, ia
no longer a sacred institution, because it
is no longer a benefit to socie^. It ia
from tliat time a system of widcedness, in
which bad ends are promoted by bad
means, and one crime operates in simordi-
nation to another.
But, my lords, it is not neceasary to
show the unreasonableness of theinference^
because the assertion from which it is de-
duced cannot be proved. That the ex-
cessive use of distilled liquors cannot be
prevented, is a very daring paradox, not
only contjpary to the experience of all
past times, but of the present; for the
taw which is now to be repealed, did in a
great degree produce the effiMSts desired
trom it, till tne execution of it was sua*
pended, not by the inability of the magis-
trates, or obstmacy of the people, but by
the artifice of ministers, who promoted the
sale of spirits secretly, for the same reason
which incites our present more daring po-
liticians to establish the use of them l^ a .
law. The defecto of this hiw, for tliat it
was defective cannot be denied, were in
the manner of levying the duty ; fisr had
half the duty that was demanded from the
JMSl 16 0B0>eBIL
m
the dkdaetf ^eM htd bMi M M$l<^
udomaatkmt mr had w» tMin Mnned
widi tbe 4iMiaAa«eMtiltoftlwnig6iiid
enidly of the pcopto, ofihe vl«loH dfliA^
0f thoM niio endawrMBTdd tojrrov Hchlqr
commencing proeecations. Toe &$»if bed
been fegutwAy fWd, Ite Bqiiors hiid been
DMide loo dear for comitiba naOi md the
name of epiiila had been in a ihort time
forgoCtMi amcNigfll wi« Ff om ti^ defect^
mf lorda^ arote all tho ddicnlciei and in-
cottvenleneee that4»ve impeded the exe*
oatien of Ae law, and prevented Aie ef*
fects that were enpeelod from Hf and bj
one aowndment mf aright bo all re*
mored.
But instead of endeavourinr to improve
the efficacy of the remedy whiGh was bo*
fin« proposed lor thia omrenal nmlady,
we are now t^, that it was too fc^fcMe
to tske effect^ and that it oidr Ailed by
tbe Tiffoar of its operation* We are in-
ftrme^ that the work of reformation
ought not to be dtspalciied with too mweh
expedition, tliat manliind cannot possibly
be made virtuotn at ooee, and that they
must be drawn off fiwm their habits 1^
}nst degreeo, without the Tiolence of a
aaddcn change. What degrees the no^*
Me lord proposes to recommend, 'or what
advantage he exjpeets frdm allowiag tbe
people a longer Iraie to confirm their ha-
bits, I am not alMe to discorer. He ap»
pcNuato-me rather to propose an experi-
nent than a law, and rather to iotena the
iaqfrovemeot of pdicy, than the safety of
thopeo|4ew
• Tliis experiment is, indeed, of a v«ry
daring kind, in which not only the money
bat »t fifes of the people are haaarded :
their money has, indeed^ in all agev, been
aoMeot to the caprices of statesmen, bnt
their Ikes ought to be exempt from sueh
dangerona pt^otioeB, because, when once
loM, they can never be reco?a|ed. By
tUs Bi^ however, it is contrived to lay
poison in the wajr of the people, poison
which we know will be eagerly devoared
by a feorth part of the nation, and will
pfova fiital to agreotnun^er of thosothat
taste it ; nor of Utia (woject is any defimce
nnde, but that, since the people lovw to
awallow poMn, it may be of advantage to
the government to «eii it. It might not
be improper, ray lords, to puMish to the
people by a formal prDdainatiofls the be-
nevolent intentiono of their governors;
and in^rm them, that fieenoed murderem
aMt» bo appointed^ eitwhose sh^fliey
lMi**iil»Xen»
tt^r bdhUillf bn dsBONSfsdr wHhi* M
damfaroTl^al eMoasa, pmtiisA £
take cnie as iiaa the peiaaa pssserfesAIn
the gnttmnient^ msi htoimnolNrM
doadithepablfcflwfettim.
That monsrr only k dsriimi fioaiMi
BBI^ ia not od^F eMona frsm the irtts^
nisal of it. bat Oflnfaised Ofen \ftlm
nliodsibndlti Iwt iiaeonohascoadaari
to amort, that it wii ptodnee a idmm^
tian of mnnnoia, orreoBBsmtnMkstab
wisadMnaaanetfperiBMt. ForAiiNi.
Bony say lords, I sttt thml
Mitnoang iho BUveiy
do i aaako any scrapie to osate te I
fsnio other way of raishig ttie aiKlw
may bo attempted, or that dte dat^ wtf
borniasd to thiwshffliusaffDsD; In
lowest tax thatoan be kid wAadsihi
of raformalion. That anthod, mflmk
or any other by widdianoAerBSvivlo
procnrod, abosM bo pinsntd; fiariwlv
seheuta the GdnHBOnoma^ IsfaiM^
the nation can sufci no#iiig kr In
change; d^ey cannot raMmantyany
other manner, hot witH less isfarjfoAr
public; shice the gimteat jiikinik| iHtt
wrong meaanres can Meamly jRoaaos, k
•no cnoiHHiKieA or wjCBoonesB, boq ess 0^
tiMishment of dcbaucheiy*
TheEarlofJBa(A^
My lonk; that this Mk^iii
great propriety* called an oxpciuaflrttl
am ready to idow, bnt do net (kaik tki
jBstness of that t Aptemion any ferdWet^
gnment against it; beeaum' 1 kasesit
any law t&t ean beptopoaedfer fktmm
end, wHhont eqosilf deserving the mm
All ^ke sckemet of goietmnmi; sy
iMds, ham been peifbeted ky skia w^
grees, and the defastao^efnfys^pdttne
supplied by the wisdom of juccswiia j»
nerations. No man has yet beea torn,
whose discenmi0Bt, howwDiatr aturtuhnii
baa enkbled hi» todfleem aBdIa eaa>>
oaenceaofanew law, nortopuMiiedl
tne ihfladea thae it indndet^ or si is
ineonvnnienees that it may pfoAscs: llr
first eaMqr of a newregidMionii,thnefn%
ofidy an experiment mnds^insaaiedegiwip
atrando^oi; andtobe redliedb^sQhi^
qoent ebservatfonOp in. making wlin^ As
most pnktent con^bd is oriy to tsfcfr tiA
that it may prtalwte no 9 eonseffsesttt if
gresi imporCante, wsnwe there nayatit
opportnml^ ta r0riawat^ ili
Tbta imflAMkfl^l6rdi»iibiiiii»f Oj^iokA,
ictly recirded m tike prttcnl attettpCi
tich Itt IttMJlf is «k aflis^ of vtry great
irplenitgr. I'te heakb afid nriue el the
loplcf W0t Up be jiigiHikd en one pef t^
id tke GOBtiMnheeef a veivgettlulflad
Lfeoaive dMnufactme ott m etlttr; a
anaflwCttffe^ by wMdi ei^i Of eliie#f »
e pffedttce of oaf ewUMiKMv fi eM|»ioy-'
I ; BttA OD inncn^ AeffenMfef uie ifsne e«
nda tMcM ferf neck depend.
ManvifiMfitfes of tMs kind, my krdi,
j^t never to be Tiolently or suddenly
ipprcaocA If they are pemideus to die
aiion in general, they ere, at least, nse^
d to a rery great part, and to seme, wfce
Kve me oilier employttont, necesMvy;
nd in the design of pntting a stop to ttttj
etrnoeB^ trade, care is atwayv to be
ikea that the ineonvcnienee exceed not
he benefit, and time be allowed ibr Aose
baa are engi^ed in it tawi^drair to some
tiier basness, and for the commodities
hat ane consumed by it, to be inCroduoed
It Sonne eCher nMnet, or directed to some
ffher nee ^ These cantiensare in this B€l
•efy jtiuKionsiy obserifed. The trade,
rhseh aifl ailavr to admmiater supplies to
lebatiehei^, and fiid to diseases, wffl, by
lie pro¥isioBS in this 1^ sink airay by
legreea^ end die hedth and rirtue of die
people wil be preserved or restored with-
out muranirs or commotions.
We must 'consider, likewise, my lords,
the neceenf y fit nMnft supplies, and the
Rieeess with whidi ttiey have hitherto
been raiaed upon dte scheme which is now
under yomr constderadon. In examining
khe necessity of procurhig supplies, I shaS
act expatiate imon the present danger of
the liberties of sildiis part of die world;
rQ the ^btiess of the House of Austria,
necessity of presei viag the balance of
power, dr the apparent designs of the an«
cient afNl mcessant cntttrDeffs of ■nmkuid,
topics whfebhayebeiaron former occasions
suificientty exphdned. It hr now only
necesaary to obserre, diet the state oC our
affiiurs requires expedidon, and tbit ahap-
py peace can onJt be expected from a suc«
cessfiil wv, and diat war can only be
made seecesstid by vigour and dispatch.
If by fiberal gnmts of money, and ready
coacuf rente in tS necessary measaies, we
enable bSb majesty to ra&e a powerful
ttmir, there is no resson to dount diat a
ftngle campMn may procuve peace, that
it may estahlsh dke fiberties of Europe,
>ad raise our dfiev frfio were so lately ms-
^^^Med^ to dieirfttmer greatness*
A. D. 1741
ttm
Jhm§ fiippHes^ my issAii uttA at^ s^a
etidendy necessary, tarn by die nsBthed
now proposed, be esawr, speedily, and
chesfff raised. Uood dfe sscarity wMch
this act will albid, large sams are already
oAred to the government at die low inte-
rest of Iftfee for a hundred, hy diose adi^
if the eondidens of die lean are ehaiM^
win perhaps demand four itt a Aw £m-
or raise money hy a eombiaatien te dbe
rate of fi?eer six fo» a hundred; ofwWdb
I would net remark- how mech it wB eni*
baxrass the p«d^ie measures^ er how mudl
it wffl enceflim^ oer enemies i& an eluti^
nate resistance.
Such, my krds^ are the inconn«iMeeai
to be feared flrem lejeeting thia Bil, er
frompostpoidngil; bfwMAiapfauriyitt-'
tended oidy a more gentle and tender
manner of rejecting it, by hintinai to tlM^
ComaMsia your dii^preMdott of It, mft
the neeeadcy of sendms upanodier^ ^MN"
you cannot do without haairdBngd^ pesce
of the nation and the ftle of the war« '*
The Commons^ who are not oU%ed t&
enqfdre what recepdon their BiOa fiad
here, may perhaps not immediately pre*
pare anodier, but suftv dme to elapse, till
necessity shall oUge us to comply widt
those measurea which we cannot miprove.
They may Fdtewise, by a kind of^parMa'^
mentary craft, dttde ain our preeautionaf
and mdbe the rejection of the BBI inefbe^
tuai, as was once done, when a Bii for H
tax upon leadier was rejected; the Cook
mons,, determining not tobe directed in dle>
methods of raising money, sent on the
same Bill widi (^m a small alteration d^
the tide, to lay a mty upon tanned hidea,
whfdi die Lcffda were, tor want of tioie^
obliged to pass.
TOt, my lordi, should the odier Hoese
discorer in this single instance, any un«
common degree of flexibility and complal*
sance, shonra thgrpatiendy endure the re^
jeetion of the ffilf, admit the Tahditr o^
the reatons upon which your lordMpe
hare proceeded, and wfllingly enj^ige m
drawing up a new scheme for raiabff sup-
plies ; eren upon this supposition, which ia
more farourable dnm can reaMmsblr be
formed, die business of the year wffl be
very aiudt perplexed, and tne new BSB
bunied into a W without suCcient can*
don or de&beradon.
The session is now, my lords, so for ad-
tanoed, diat many of the Cornmons har^
retired into die country, whose adfice and
aadstanoe may be necessary in the projec*
thm of a new Bfoney BiB^ so that tne nei^
^997] 16 GEORGE II.
Bill must be formed in a Abort timo) and
thin House ; and, indeed, tlie multiplicity
of considerations necessary to another Bill
of this kind, is such, that I cannot think it
prudent to advise or undertake it.
The committee on ways and means must
strike out another scheme for a consider-
able impost, which, in the present state of
the nation, is in itself no easy task. This
scheme must be so adjusted as to be con-
sistent with all the other taxes, whidi will
require long consultations and accurate en-
owries. It mu§t then struggle, perhfl^
tnrough an obstinate and artful opposition,
before it can pass through the forms of the
other House ; and, when it comes before
your lordships, may be again opposed with
no less zeal than the BiU before us, and
perhaps likewise with eaual reason. All
these dangers and difficulties will be avoid-
ed by trying, for a single year, the experi-
ment which is now proposed ; and whidi,
if that iiiould fail, may be better adjusted
in the time of leisure, which the beginning
of the next session will undoubtedly afford ;
before which time I am afraid no amend-
ment can possibly be made.
It has been proposed, indeed, by the
noble lord, that three shillings should be
laid upon every gallon of distilled liquors,
which would undoubtedly lessen the con-
sumption, but would at the same time de-
stroy the trade ; a trade from which large
pronts may be in time gained; since our,
distillers have now acquired such skill, that
the most delicate palate cannot distinguish
their liquors from those which foreigners
import If the duty be raised to the
height proposed, it must be allowed to be
re-paid for all that shall be exported ;
otherwise foreign nations will deprive us
of this part of our trade ; and it has been
thready shown, that by mock exportations
the duty may be frequently evaded. Thus,
my loros, there will be difficulties on either
hand; if a duty so high be paid, the ma-
• nu£Eu:turer will be ruined : if it be evaded,
the consumption will be lessened.
One inconvenience will easily be dis-
oovered to be the necessary consequence
of any considerable advance of the price.
We may be certain that an act of parlia-
ment will not moderate the passions, or
dter the appetites of the people ; and that
diey will not be less desirous of their usual
gratifications, because they are denied
them. The poor may, indeed, yield to
necessity, unless they find themselves able
to resist die hiw, or to evade it ; but those
mha can %thti to please their taste^ or
D€kU$mtkeLordi
[13B
exalt their apfaila at a greater «xpesce;
will still riot as before, but with this ^
ference, that their excesses wDl prodsa
no advantage to the public If an adty-
tiooal duty of three sniUings be laid upa
every gallon of distilled liquors, the pro-
duct of our own distillery wiU be dU^re:
than those liquors which are imported finoB
foreign parts; and, therefore, it cannoi
biit be expected diat the money which noi
circulates amongst us, will in a idiort time
be clandestinely carried into other coun-
tries.
Such, my lords, will be the effiact d
those taxes which are so strongly recom-
mended ; and, therefore, they cHight net
to be imposed, till all other methods d
procec^dinghave been found ineffiectuaL
It is possible, indeed,, that the regulatim
specified in this Bill, may not produce aoj
beneficial effect, and that the {present prac-
tice of debauchery may .atiU contiaoe
among the people ; but it is likewise pas-
sible Uiat this tax may, by increasing the
price, augment the revenue at the sams
time that it lessens the consomiptjoQ.
This proposid has by some lords been
treated as a paradox; but they certainiy
suspected it of fiilshood, only for want fd
patience to form the calculations nece^arj
m such disquisitions. The tax of the la4
year amounted to 170,000^; thistoxisnoir
doubled, so that the same quantity will pro-
duce 340,000^ ; but if one third leas should
be consumed, the present tax will amount
to no more than 220,000^;. and when
50,000 licences are added, the reYe&ue will
gain 100,000^. though one third part d
the consumption should be hindereo.
But, my lords, supposing no part of the
consumption hindered, I cannot think that
Bill should be rejected, which, in a time of
daneer like the present, shall add to tlie
public revenue an annual income of mors
than 200,000/1., without lessenmg any ma-
nufacture, without burthening any use&l
or virtuous part of the nation, and without
giving the least occasion to any murmun
among the people.
It is to be remembered, my lords, that
whatever corruption shall prevail amongst
us, it cannot be imputed to this Bill, which
did not make, but nnd the nation vitiated,
and only turned their vices to public ad«
vantage ; so that if it produces any dimi-
nution of the sale of spirit it is incusputa-
bly to be applauded as promoting virtue.
If the sale or spirits still continues£e same,
it will deserve some degree of commenda-
tion, as it will| at least, not contEibute ta
{&9]
0n the Spirituous Liquors Bit*
A. D. 174»-
[1390
e inoreaM 6f vice, and as it will atrgment
e revenue without injuring the people :
r how, my lords, can we be censured for
\y Buffering the nation to continue in its
rmer state ?
Lord Tolhat:
My lords ; if we consider the ten-
mcy of the argument used by the noble
rdy the only argument on which he ap-
^rs to lay any stress, it will prove, if it
roves any thin^, what cannot be admitted
^ your lordships, without bidding fare-
ell to indepenuency, and acknowledging
lat you are only the substitutes of a
igher power. It appears by the tenor of
Is reasoning, that he considers this House
{only obliged, in questions relating to
ipplies, to ratify the determinations of
le other; to submit implicitly to their
ictates, and receive their sovereign com-
lands, without daring either to refuse
Dmpliance, or delay it.
If we conjoin the reasoning of the noble
»rd who spoke last, with that of one who
)oke before in favour of the Bill, we shall
e able to discover the full extent of oUr
ower on these occasions ; the first was
leased to inform us, that though we were
t liberty to examine the paragraphs df
biis Bill, we had no right, at least no
ower, to amend them ; because in Money
tills, the Commons left us no other choice
Kan that of passing or rejecting them,
rhis, ray lords, might have been thought a
efficient contraction of those privOeges
rhich your ancestors transmitted to you,
nd the Commons needed to have desired
0 farther concessions from this House,
ince this was a public confession of a
oboTdinate state, and admitted either
hat part of our ancient rights had been
;i¥cn up, or that we were at present too
auch depressed to dare to assert them. .
We might, however, still comfort our-
elves with the peaceful and uncontested
possession of the alternative; we might
till believe that what we could not ap-
prove we might reject, without irritating
he formidable Commons. But now, my
srds, a new doctrine has been vented
mong us ; we are told not only that we
oust not amend a Money-BiU, but that it
^31 be to no purpose to reiect it ; for that
he other House will send it again without
llering any thing but the title, and force
^ upon us, when there is no time for any
*her expedient.
If this, my lords, should be dtoe, I I^now
^ot Jiaw the Bill might, at its second ap-
pearance, be received by other lords ; for
my part, I should vote immediately for re*
iectmg it, without any alleviating or moU
liiylng expedients. 1 should reject it, my
lords, even on the last day of tne session,
without any regard to the pretended
necessity of raising supplies, and without
suffering myself to be terrified into com*
pliance by the danger of the House of Aus*
tria ; for though I think t^e balance of
power on the continent necessary to be
preserved at the hazard of a fleet or an
iarmy, I cannot think it of equal impor«
tance to us, with the equipoise of our own
government; nor can I conceive it my
duty to enslave myself to secure the free-
dom of another. The danger, therefore,
of dbgusting the Commons, at this or any
other juncture, shall never influence me
to a tame resignation of the privileges of
our own House; nor shall I willingly allow
any force to arguments which are intend-
ed only to operate upon our fear: and
therefore, unless there shall ^pear some
better plea in favour of this Bui, I shall
think it my duty to (^pose it.
The other plea is the difficult, or, m
the style of the noble lord who spoke last,
the impossibOity, of raising supplies by
any other method. That it is not easy to
raise supplies by any new tax in a nation,
where idmost all the necessaries of life are
loaded with imposts, must be readily allow-*
ed ; but that it is impossible, the folly of
the people, which is at least equal to ^eir
poverty, will not suffer me to grant.
One other expedient, at least, has been
already discoveied by the wonderful saga*
city of our new ministers ; an expedient
which they cannot, indeed, claim the ho-
nour of inventing, but which appears so
conformable to the rest of their conduct,
and so agreeable to their prmeiples, that I
doubt not but they will very often practise
it, if tiie continuance of their power be long
enough to admit of a full disfJay of their
abilities.
Amidst their tenderness for our tiiaAa-
f^ctures, and their regard for comraercey
they have established a lottery for 800,00(V.
by which they not only take advantage of
an inclination too predominant, an indina-
tion to grow rich rather by a lucky hazard,
than successful industnr ; but give up th«
people a prey to stock-jobbers, usurers,
and brokers of tickets, who will plunder
them without mercy, by the encourage-
ment of those by whom it might be hoped,
that they would }^ protected froo pl^a*
derera.
ISei] 15<IB0BGKIL
mp^ A9t more booett «r moiv uMf&i for
i»l»iQg Jmli WMt.ih^ ^t^fctiim which hat
teea piMt U> nUother ganofiyiad whichhw
never jret. beiea entvemd. wiU be fiwiMi
eqiMUjr velid when appiUfidto rb^enu Tbqr
ffi^rQ^ thet attentioii wbidh might be «Bi»
plq/^ed ui iapiprpvjiy pr extoaduy our
nuiaufiictimii ; ibqr eiraUow that mooef
which mkU cirouele in ueefttl tradei
tfa^ give the i4)0 «»d the dU^ptnt en eque)
proqieet ef riches; end )>7 oonftmng
iweyyrrriyd weelth upoa theee who never
denerved it, end kaow net bow to use it,
Ibey preoMte e^trevagence and howy,
UMoleooe and diiaolut^ewa.
3ut these coneeqiAepcei, my lords, eiid
« thoDsaed otberp equi% ie»portant|
eiiaally loriiiidfdil^ may be objopled with*'
oat enNBt, agaiaat aoy aohene by ^i4MQb
VKMsey viU be iwed; money I fheooly
end at which owr mkiisten have aimed Sit
ebsost half • ceotwy $ money 1 by wbiph
only they huve preserved the wvour of the
coert, and ^he ebfidienae of parUamenti
mon^ ! whiph he^ fvppliad the place of
irisdem at oe«ljme,ima of courage at aao-
ther. Togain money, m Uir4«, th^ haw
injured two by establishing a lottenrt
^d they ere pow ebogt to sacrifiee Ibo
beakh and virtue of the people, to the
preservation of a trade by wWk money
aeieybofiiriM^hedtotbefovemment* This,
my lords, is their only destgn, howremr
they may act, or whoti^ar tb^ may pro*
fess: if th^ endeavour to pno^ect eithor
the trade er livei of people, it is only be-
cause they wp^ a ooetimiMioo of taates
from tbmi and wheo mora despemte
moBswea nae neeMsmry fiwr Ae lemp pur*
poses, thfgr imio their trade by ewe projeot,
and destroy their Uves by another
Lord JLoa^fe r
Mj^ lords; it is AOt withovt the
Utmost grief aod indigoetioo» that I ftnd
this House considered by some who have
q^oken io vindication of th^a Bill, es obliged
to comply with aoy 'i^voposals sent up by
the Conimons for raisNag money, faoimrer
destruetive to the puhUo, or however coo*
twy to the 4ictates of our coosci^oGe^ or
oop^victioos of our reason. What is this,
nvy lorde, but once mone to vote oumelves
iiselessf What but to be the first that
shall destroy tho oonstitu^n of the go*
yemmank and give up ibat liberty whi^h
pur enoesiors estaUishad? TUm this is
I«M^y*a desigo of iaiy^«» noWe lords,
wAo bave spoken in vindication pf thg
Bin, and have assarted tfio
pawing it, without any attienyta to i
at, I am very fiirfiomaffirmms; b«t,ce
tmnly, my tmt^ this, and this oplj. n tb
consequence of their poaitionBp wriA vfaai
ever intention they may have adTnoce
them : for how, my lords, can we call om
selves indepeadee^ if we ane to recet?
the commaods of the other Hoime ? c
with what oroprifify can we asvMyne the ti
tie of legislators, if we are to pmm a Bi
like (his without examioation i
The Bill now before us, my Ipids, is c
the atmost importance to the biypinp« c
that nation whose welfare we b^v» hitiwf
to bean imagined to superintend* In thi
BiU are involved not mdy the trade a»
ricbek hot the lives and monda of tk
British people ; nor can we auSi^ it to pas
uoevamined, without betraying Uie natisi
to wickedness and destruct^^i.
Should we, 00 this ocrnaion^ airffer ov
selves to be degraded ftom legialatoo u
messengem from the Commeoa to th
throne; should we be oontont only ti
treosmit the laws which ww ma^ M
amend, and leswo oumelvos vip npKptl]
to the wisdom ofthoso whom ve have £oi
marly oonridensd as our lAferioie^ I knoi
not for what purpose we sit base, i
would be my counsel that we Should m
loD0sr ettempt to praastve tbeappeuanoi
of power, when we have lost the wibstanor
or suhuut to share the drudgery of ^vern
ment, without paifaUng of (ho antboiitv
The time of such desperation ^ indeea
not yet arrived; but every act of m«yA
compliance iriU bring it nearer; opdtiMie
&re» my lords, &r the sefce of oonMivm
as well es of the people, I join the doUi
load's motion for remming the Honsu
that ftrther inCMmation may ho ehminri
both by onrsehresi by theMwamom^ mi
bythoeetioR.
The IMLeefNeipcnsiie:
My lords ; I believe oo lord in thii
House is more aealous ^ the advsntagi
of the public ihflO oqwK if inoradesiRmi
to paasorue <iie . lives, or amend the nmnlii
of the poevJe ; but I ^ewnot Ifai^k that tha
Oharaoler osn justjiy iouply aoj dislike od
hafbrow. IflsbonUadoii
thoBiUnowi
what the noble lord has asserted, that thi
lives and morals of the people axe afectad
by this Bi^ I cannot vflrit see that his b
&^ne^ is juit, or tbot enr cnmpliann<
wiUi the motion is tt^reGase necymwy
That under tbo prneot r^uiatioB> th
inisms»«^tfrf mitiao are m^Fjidj^^
1S9S]
OH ike SpirituoiU Lijuon BUL
A. t). 1743«
[ISM
creased; ihat ooiruptioii spreads every
da J wider, and debauchivy makes greater
havec, Is confessed on all sides ; and there*
fore I can discover no reason for oontinu*
ing the lairs b their present state, nor can
think that we ouglft to decline any espe«
riment b^r which that disorder, which can*
not be increased, nay possibly be les-
sened*
It is confessed by the noble lords, who
declftre their approbation of the motion for
postponing the consideration of this Bill,
that they intend nothing less than a gentle
and tacit manner of dropping it, by show-
ing the Commons that, uioughto avoid of*
fence they do not absolutdy reject it, yet
they cannot approvp it, and win not pass
it; and that therefore the necessity of
raising supplies, requires that another Bill
ahoula be K>rmed, not liable to the same
ebjecdons.
The consequence of this procedure, my
lords, can onfy be, that ettner the Com*
mons win form another Bill for raising
money, or that they will send up this
again with a new title, and such sliffnt al*
terations as not thchappiness of we na-
tioDy but the forms of Uie parliament, de*
mand»
If, in return for our endeavours to re-
form a Bill, of which they think themsielves
the only constitutional judges, they should
send it again with only another title ; what,
my lords, shall we procure by the delay,
but a new occasion of murmurs and dis-
content, a new confirmation of the power
of the Commons, and an establishment of
parliam^tary chicanery, at once perni-
cious to the publiC| and ignominious to
ourselves ?
That the Comnums, in sendmg back a
Bill that has been rejected in thb House,
with only a ^umge m the title, act con<>
trary to the end of parliamentary consulta*
tions, though consistently wirti their ex-
tern^ forms, cannot be denied: but as
each House is without any dependence cm
the other, such deviations from the prin*
ciples of our constitution, however injuri-
ous to our anthority, or however detri«
mental to the nation, cannot be punished,
nor otherwise prevented than I^ caution
andprudence.
If, therefore, the Commons, as they hove
formerly done, should rstuni the Bill
without alteration, we shall only have im«
paired our own authority, and shaken the
foundations of our government, by a fruit*
less opposition* Nor shall we gain any
advantage, though they should comply
[VOL. XII.]
with our expectations, and employ tht
little time that remains m eontrtving a new
tax; for corruption must then proceed
without opposition, the people must srow
everjr day more vidous, and debauoiery
will, in a short time, grow too general to
be suppressed.
With rep^ to the Bill before us, the
only question that is necessary or propet
is, whether it will promote or hinder the
Gonsnmptioa of disnlled liquors ? for as to
the efibcts of those liquors, those thai via«
dicate, and that oppose this Bill, are of the
sanie opinion ; ana all will readily allow^
that if the law now proposed shall be
found to increase the eonsumptien which
it was intended to diminish, it ought im»
mediately to be repealed, as destructive tn
the people, and contrary to the end for
whicn it was designed ; but if the addi^
tional duties shall produce any degree of
restraint, if they shaU hinder the consomp*
tion even of a very small part, I think il
must be allowed that the provisions ant
just and usefiil; since it has already ap^
peared, Uiat this vice is too deeply rooted
to be torn up at once; and that therefore
it is to be pruned away by imperceptible
diminution.
Whether the provisions now offered ii|
the Bill might not admit of improvements t
whether some other more efficacious ex«
pedjents might not he discovered $ and
whether the duties mighl not be raised yet
higher, with more advantaae to the publie^
may undoubtedly admit <» long disputes^
and deep enquiries; but for these enquiries
and disputes, my lords, there is at preseal
no time: the luUfs of the continent re*
quire our immediate interposition, the ge*
neral oppresson of the western world are
now endeavouring to extend their donn
aions, and exalt their power beyond the
possibility of future op
and eur
allies, who were stroggfing against them»
can no longer continue tbir elbrts with«
out assistance.
At a time like this, my lords, it Is not
proper to delay the supmies by needhMS
controversies; or, indeeo, by any disputes
which may, without great inconvenience,
be dehiyed to atune of tranquillity, a tunt
when all our enquiries may be prosecuted
at leisure, when every argument may be
considered in its full extend and when the
improvement of our laws ought, indeed, to
be our princ^wl care. At present it ^
pears to me, that every method of raising
money, without manifest injury to the
morals of the peopki deserres our appKK
1395]
16GEOR6E^IL
bation ; snd therefore that we ought to
INM this Bill, though it should not much
binder thie coafumption of spirituou0 li»
^orsy if it thall barely q>pear that it will
not increase it.
It it at least proner, that, at this pressing
cx^nce, those that oppose the bilk hr
which supplies are to be raised, shoul^
by oifering other expedients, show that
tneir opposition proceeds not from any
private malevoleDce to the ministiy, x>r
any prepossession against the public mea*
auresybut from a steady adherence to just
principles, and an impartial regard for the
public goods for it ma;^ be suspected,
diat he who only busies hunself m pulling
down, without any attempts to repair the
breadKs that he has made with more fit
or durable materials, has no real design of
strengthening Uie fortification.
It has been proposed, Indeed, by one
•r the noble lords, that a tax of three
ahillings a sallon should be laid upon all
distilled spirits, and collected by the hiws
of excise at the still-head, which would
doubtless secure a great pitft of the peo-
ple from the temptations to which they
are at present exposed, but would at the
same time produce another efiect not
equally to be desired*
I have been informed, my lords, upon
mentioning this prcpoml in conversation,
that such duties will raise the price of the
liquors distilled among us, above that of
foreign countries ; and that therefore not
only all our foreign trade of tiiis kind
would be immediately destreved, but that
manyiof those who now drmk onr own
siMrits, only because they are dieaper,
will then purchase those of foreign coun-
tries, which are generally allow^ to be
more pleasant. That this is really the
state of ^e affiur, I do not affirm; for I
now relate <mly what I have heard from
others ; but surely the imposition of so
heavy a duty requires a long considera-
tion; nor can it be improper to men-
tion any objections, the discussion of
which may contribute to our infoimation.
But any other regulatbns than those
now oflEered, will require so many enqui-
ries, and so long consultation, that pania-
ment will expect to be dismissed from
their attendance, before any resolutions
are formed ; and when once the supplies
are provided, we shidl find . ourselves
obliged to leave the law relating to spiri-
tuous liquors in its present state.
Then, my lords, will the enemies of the
gevernment imagine that they have a new
Belaie in t%e t>or3s [ISdft
opportunity of gratifying their nsuignity,
by censuring us as whdly ne|^%ent of the
public happiness, and charge na with
looking witnout concern upon the de-
baucheiy, the diseases, and the poverty
of the people, without any compassion of
their want^ or care of theur reformatioD.
That to continue the present law any
loneer, wjQl be only to amuse oarselvea
trith inefiectual provisions, ia universally
idlowed; nor is there any dillerence of
opinion widi regard to the present stat*
or the vice which we are now endeavour-
ing to hinder. The last law waa wdl in*
tended, but was dictated by anger, and
ratified by seal; and therdTore was too
violent to be execnte4» and, instead of re-
forming, exasperated the niUion.
No sooner, dierefore, did the nu^v-
trates discover the inflexjUe resohitian of
the people, theb furious persecation of
informers, and their dedared hair^ of all
those who concurred in depiiving them
of this dangerous pleasure, man tb^ were
induced, by regard to their own n&Sj^ to
relax tihat severity which was enjoined,
and were contented to purchase safety by
gratifying, or at least, by not oppoBanf
Uiose passions of the multitude, whico
they OMild not hope to controol; the prac-
tice of drinkmg spirits continued, and the
consumption was every year gr^iter dan
the former.
This, my lords, is the present atate of
the nation ; a state sufficioidy defdorable,
and which all die laws of humanity and
justice command us to alter. This is the
universal dechuration. We all agree, that
the people grow every day more cormpt^
and that this corruption oug^t to be stop-*
ped ; but by what means, is yet mde-
dded. Violent methods, and extremity
of rigour, have been already tried, and
totally defeated; it k therefore proposed
to try more easy and gentle r^ulations,
that shall produce, by slow decrees, the
reformation which cannot be eSected by
open force ; these new relations appear
to many lords not sufficiently coercive*
and are'iniagined stfll less likehr to reform
a vice so inveterate, and so wmly esta*
blished.
These opinions I cannot flatter myself
with the hope of reconcOjog ; but must
yet observe, that the consumption of
these liquors, as of all other commoditiee,
can only be lessened by proper duties, and
that every additional imposition has a ten-
dency to lessen them ; and since, so for as
it extends, it can produce no ill c&cts,
S97]
Oft the SphrUuoiu liqaort Bill.
A. IX 174S,
[ISQI
ieserrai tlie lipprobation of thoie who sin-
erdy desixe to suppress this odious vice
hat nas so much prevailed, aosd be^i so
ridely diffused.
It is, indeed, possible, that the duties
low proposed may be found not sufficient ;
mt for this defect there is an easy remed]|r.
[he duty, if it be found by the ezperi-
ince of a single year to be too email, may,
n the next, be easily augmented, and
welled, by annual increases, even to the
leight which is now proposed, if no reme-
iy more easy can be foimd.
It may be objected, that this fund will
»e mortgaged for thepayment of die sums
!mployed m the service of the war ; and
hat therefoK, the state of the du^ can-
lot afterwards be altered without injustice
0 the public creditors, and a manifest
iolation of the fiuth of parliament: but,
ay lords, though in the hurry of provid-
Dg for a pressing and imnortant war, the
}<Hnmon8 coula not find any other me-
hod so easy of raising money, it cannot
le doubted but that when they consider
he state of the nation at leisure, they
nU easSy redeem this tax, if it shall
ippear inconvenient, and substitute some
«her, leas injurious to the happiness of
he public
It was not impossible for them to have
lone this in the b^nninff of this session ;
lor can it be suppoMd, that men so long
ersed ui public affiurs^ could not easfly
lave proposed many other unposts ; but
\ may be imagined, that tiiey chose this
ut of many, wUhout susperang that it
^ould be opposed; and oelieved, that
bey were at once raismg supplies, and
rotecting the virtue of the people.
Nor indeed, my lords, does it yet ap«
ear, that they have been mistaken; for
iiough the arguments of the noble lords
rho oppose ttie Bill are acute and pku-
ible, vet smce they agree, that the oon-
omption of .these houors ifl^ at last, to be
indered by raising their price, it is rea?
(mable to conceive, that evenr augmen-
ition 61 the price nuist produce a pro-
ortionate diminution of the consunm*
ion; and that therefore this du^ wul
ontribute in some degree to the remimap
ion of the people. It seems at least in
he highest degree probable, that it can-
lot increase tUfctwil which it is intended
0 remedy ; and that therefore we may
easonably concur in it, as it will for*
lish ^e government with supplies, with*
lilt any inconvenienGe to those that pay
The Earl of S^mftnc* •-
My lords; this subject, has alrea^
been so acutely considered, and so copn
ously discussed, that I rise up in diesfMir
of proposing any thins new, of explaining
any argument more clearly, or ui^git
more forcibly, of starting any other sub-
ject of consideration, or pointing out any
circumstance yet untoucned- in those thai
have been proposed. Yet, my lordtf,
though I cannot hope to add any thing to
the niowledge which your lordships hav#
already obtained of the subject in debate^
1 think it my duty to add one voice to the
tniUi, avd to dechure, that in tiie balance
of my understanding, the arguments
against the Bill very much outweigh
those that have been offered in its &voiir*
It is always presumed by those wh^
vindicate it, that ev^ augmentation of
the price wiU necessarily produce a pro*
portmnate decrease of Uie consumption.
This, my lords, is the chief, if not the
only argument that has been advanced,
except that which is drawn from the ne-
cesri^ of lairing supplies, and the danger
of disgusting the other House. Butthie
argument, my lords, is evidendy fallaci*
ous ; and therefore the Bill, if it passes^
must pass without a single reason, except
immediate convenience.
Let us examine, my lords, this potent
argument, which has been successively
urged by sll who have endeavoured to
vindicate the Bill, and echoed from one to
another witii all the confidence of irre<*
firanbility; let us consider on what sop^
pontions it is founded, fnd we shall sooa
find how easUy it will be dissipated.
It is supposed by this argument, that
every drm&er of these liquors spends ae
much as he can possibly procure; and
that therefinre the least aaditional price
must place part of his pleasure bevond hie
reach. This, my loros, cannot be gene*
rally true; it is periiaps generally, ff not
univenaUy, fidse. It cannot be doubted,
but that many of those who corrupt their
minds and bodies with these peniicioua
drau^ts, are above the necessity of con-
straining their appetites to escape so small
an expenoe as that which is now to be im«
posedupen them ;• and even of those whose
poverty* can smk no lower, who are in
reality exhausted by every day's debauch,.,
it is at least as likely, that they will insist
upon more pay for their work, or that
tiiey wiU steal with more rapacity, as that
they will suffer themselves to be ddMurtedi
firofa the pleasures «f drunkenness.
I90B] Iff GEORGE U.
It 18 not certaioy thftt this duty w3I make
lliefe li^ilon deurer to those who drink
them; »noe the distiller will more wiH-
iaglv deduct from hit present profit the
tmaU tax that, is now proposed, than suiEer
the trade to sink; and even if that tax
ahould boi as is usualt levied upon the re-
tailer, it has been already observed, that in
Che quantities necessary to drunkenness, it
will not be perceptible.
But, mv lords, though this argument
iwcars thus weak upon the first and
pUghtest consideration, the chief fallacy is
attfi behind. Those who have already
initiated themselves in debauchery, d&*
•erve not the chief consideration of this
House ; they are for ^e greatest part
hopeless and nbandoned, ana can only be
irithheld by force from complying with
Ihoae desires to which they are habitually
enslaved. They may mdeed be sometimes
Mnished, and at other times restrained,
Mi cannot often be reformed,
. Those, my k>rds, who are yet unoor^
lupted, ottf^nt first to engage our care ;
virtue is easily preserved, but difficultly re»
gamed. But tor these what rewurd has
hitherto been shown ? What e&cts can
lie expected from tiiis Bill, but that c^ex*
Dosioff them to tenaptatioiis, by placing un-
lawful pleasures in their view i pleasures
which, howe^^er unworthy of human 'na-
ture, are seldom forsaken after they have
once been tasted.
In the consideration of the present ques*
tion,it is to be remembered, tmit midtitudes
•re already corrupted, and the contagion
grows more dangerous, in proportion as
greater onmbers are infiscted. To stop
file progress of this pestilence, my lords,
ougqt to be the governing passion of omr
mmds; to this pomt ought all our aims to
be directed, and for this end oU^t allour
projects to be calculated. But how, my
lords, is this purpose promoted by a law
which gtves a licence, an unlimited and
cheap ucence, for the sale of that h'qraer,
to iraidi, even those who support Ae BUI,
impute the present corruption of the peo*
fhi This surely is no ratmnal sdieme of
feformation, nor can it be imagmed, that
a fiivourite and inveterate vice is to be el«*
tirpated by audi gentle methods.
Let us consider, my lords, more nearly
the eifocts of this new-invented regulation,
and we shall see, how we may expect
|rom them the recovery of pulme virtue,
A law is now to be repealed, by which
fhe use of distflled liquors is prohibited,
but whkd) has net beoaibr some time pat
[HID
IktaUintULonb
in exMotioo, or wsk with sl^Mtf i
to s vrmoont the diScultiea astd iDCome.
niencidb by wiiich its opeiMiosi was sb>
structed. The law is howe««r yet in foice,
md whoev^ sells spirits miwt now sdi
them at the hasard as prosccotiop aad pe-
nalties, and with an implicit canfidence in
the kindness and fidelity of the mrebaser.
It cannot be supposed, my ioida, bat
that a law hhe this nuSBt have some dPect.
It cannot be dmsbted, ^lat some are bo-
nest, and othentimervus; and that among
the- wretches who are moat to be sospected
of this kind of d^NWohery, there mw some
in whom it is nst safe to confide; they
therefore must sometinies be hindered
firom destroying their veososi by other re-
straints than want of money; mad vbeo
they mne trusted with Ae secret of an ille-
gal trade, must pay a dearer nbo for the
danger that is incurmU
£kit when this hiw is l-Qpealed, asid every
street and alley has a shop licensed to dis-
tribute this delidous poison, what can ve
expeotf The aiost sanguine adTOcate fix
the Bill cannot swely hope, that any of
those who now drink spirita wiU fenain
from them, only because tfaey are soU
witiioat danger t and though what cannot
be proved, or even hoped, ahonld be
admitted, that some most dositaat them-
selves with a smaller qaanticy mi account
of the advaaoM price, yet wfafle they taks
all oppoftaaies of debauoheiy, while they
spend, in this destroothre luepiar, all that
either honest kihontr 6t darmg theft wiD
supply, they arast always be tasamples of
intemperance I such exao^es as, fitim
the experience of late years, we have res-
son to believe will find aoany imitators;
and therefore will pramole at once the
consumption of spirits, and the corruptiaa
of the people.
There is always to be found hi wicked*
ness a detesssble aaiWtl4a of galmoe pro*
selyies : every man who has soffered him-
s^ ta be eoirapapd» fa desirous to lade
himself from fafamy ia crowda as vidsai
as himselfy or detires companions in wicb
edaess firom the saMe natural indmsaioa
to iBOciety, which pmmipta alnsost evety
man to avoid ^gafarity on other occs-
sions.
Whatever be the miaon, it may be
evefy day observed, thrinfae great plea-
siMdfth^ vidoasistovhiateotlmfs; nor
is it possible to squander an boiar in the
ataeihblieb of debenchees of any rank,
wi&oat obsenriag with what hapovtuaity
innocence is attacked, and how many am
H3
on tie SpirUuQus Liquarg Bill.
ttod ridicule ire used to
akea the" influence, of yirfeue> and aup-
fes the struggles of consciflocc*
Fhe fisital art by which vutve is moflt
nmonly OTerborne is the frequent repe-
OD of temptationsy which, though often
ected, wilt at some unhappy moment
nerally prevail, and therefore ought to
removed ; but which this Bill is intend-
to place always in sight*
To what purpose will it be, my lords, to
prire nine hardened profligates of a
ith part of the liquor which they now
ink, which is the utmost that this duty
11 effect? If tiiey have an opportunity of
rrapdng one by their solicitation and
:asnple, the d^ffiereace betvifeen nine and
a acta of debauchery is of very small toi*>
»nanee to mankiad, or even to die per«-
oa who are thus restrained, since neu:
vhearaace of the utmost esccesaesis onl^
le eftect of their poverty, not of their
rtoe.
How far is such restraint from befaia
^uivalent to the corruption of one fnn%
et pore and undabaiacbed ; to Aa seduc-
On of one heart from virtue, and a new
ddhioQ to the iaUrest and prevalenoe of
rickedneaa ? If it be taeceBsary, that the
applies ahould be raised fbr the govera-
aeat by the use of dns pernicious liquor,
i is desirable that it should be confined to
BWf and that h should ralher be iwal*
owed in large quantities by hopeless
hrunkards, than onered every where to
he taste of innocence and youth, in li-
anoed houses of wickedness*
The conaumption will, for a time, be
lie same in both cases, but with this im*
^rtant difierenoe, that widcedness would
mly be continued, not promoted ; and as
die poison would rid the -land by d^^rees
of the present noe of proffigatei, it n^ight
be hoped, that aor posterity would be un*-
infected*
Bat aAder the prasent sisheme of f^a<-
kationa, my lords, vice will be propagated
under the oouotenanee of the ^gnkSure ;
and that kind of tiidcedbess by which the
nation is so infiituated^ that it has increased
yearly m opposition to a penal law, will
nownotonly be sufiered^ but Encouraged,
and enjoy - not impunity only, but protec-
tion.
Thus, if we fMs the Bill, we shall not
even be able to boaat the petty merit of
leaving the notion in its present state ; we
Aill take away the present <restfahiU of
vice, without subslitnting any in their
^e shall perhapa deprive a km
A. D. 1748* [14»
hardened drdnkard* of a small part of the
liquor which they now swallow, but shfdl
open, according to the expectation of the
noblelord* 50,000 houses of licensed de-
bauchery for the ruin of millions yet an*
tainted.
To leave the nation in its present state^
which is allowed on all hands to be a state
of corruptioBi seems to be the utmost am-
bition or one of the noble lords who have
pleaded with the greatest warmth for
this Bill; for he concluded^ with an air of
triumph, by asking, how we can be cen-
sured for onlv su&ring the nation to con-
tinue in its, jormer State? We mliy be, in
my opinion, my lords, censured as traitors
to our trust, and enemies to our country,
if we permit any. vice to prevail, a^en it
is in our power to suppress it. We may
be cursed, with justice, by posterity,, aa
die abettors of that debauimery by which
poverty and disease shall be entailed upon
them, contemned in the present as the
batterers of those ^petites which we
ought to regulate, and insulted by that
populace whom we dare not oppose.
Had none of our predecessors endea^
voured the reformation of the people, had
they contented themselves always to leave
the nation as thev found it, there had been
lon^ ago an end of all the order and se-
ounty of society; forthenatunddeptavitj
of human nature has always a tendency
from less to greater, evil ; and the sameL
causes which had made us thus wicked,
will» if not obviated, make us worsen
Since the noble lord thinks it not ne*
oeasary to attempt the reformation of the
people, he might nave spared the elaborata
calculation bv which he lias proved, that a
large sum wiUbe gainedby the government,
though oae thinl part of tb cdnsumpi-
tion be prevented; for it is of v«ry little
importance to discuss the consequcncea of
an event which will never happen^ He
should fint have proved, that a third part
of the consumption will ia reality be pre*
vented, and then he might very prc^ariy
have consoled the mlniatrjr» by shcmng
how.miloh they would gam from the re*,
sidue.
•That this BiB, as it now stands, wiS
produce a large revenue to the govemmeat
out no reformation in the people, is as*
sorted b^ those that oppose, and uiidoubt-
edly believed by those that defend h ; but
as this is not the purpNOse which I and
most desirous of promoting, I cannot but
think it my duty to agree to the proposal
of the a«Ue )ocd» that b^ pes^pooi^t
1403] 16 GB0R6E IL
the consideration of the Bill, more exact
information may be obtained by ua, and
tiie Commons may be alarmed at the dan-
ger into which the nation has been brought
by their precipitation.
The Earl ofBath i
My lords ; as the noble lord who
has just spoken appears to have misappre-
hended some of my assertions, I think it
necessary to rise again , that I may explain
with sufficient deamess what periiaps I
before expressed obscurely, amidst the
number or different consiaerations that
crowded my imagination.
With regard to the diminution that
miffht be- expected from this law, I
did not absdutely assert, at least I did
not intend to assert, that a thurd part
would be taken off; but only advanced
that supposition as the basis of a calcu-
lation, by which I might prove what many
lords appeared to doubt, that the consump-
tion might possibly be diminished, and yet
the revenue increased. Upon this sup-
position, which most be allowed to be rea-
sondile, both the purposes of the Bill
will be answered, ana the public sup-
plies will be raised by the suppression of
▼ice.
The diminution of the consumption
may be grnter or less than I have sup-
poMd. If it be greater, the revenue will
be indeed less augmented; but the pur-
jposes which, m the opinion of the noUe
lords who oppose the BiU, are more to be
reganied, wifl be better promoted, and all
their arguments against it will be at least
defeated; nor will the ministnr, I hope,
re|;ret the failure of a tax which is de-
fiaent only by the sobriety of the na-
tion. If the diminudon fale less than I
have supposed, yet if there be' any di-
minution, it cannot be said, that the Bill
has been whbUy without effect, or
that the ministry have not proceeded
either with more judgment or better for-
tune than their predecessors, or that they
have not, atleast, taken advantage of the
errors that have been committed. It
must be owned, that they have either re-
formed the nation, or at least pointed out
the way by which the refonnation that has
been so long desired, may be effected.
That this tax will in some degree hinder
drunkenness, it is reasonable to expect,
because it can only be hindered by taxing
the liquors which are used in excess ; but
there yet remain, concemmg the weight
•f the tax that ought to be laid upon them,
DeUde in ike Lords [1401
doubts whidi nothing but experieDoecsa,
I believe, remove. By expcticnoe, m
lords, we have been already taught, that
taxes may be so heavy as to be w^hosc
effect; that restraint may be so violent at.
to produce impatience ; and therefore it ii
proper in the next essav to proceed by
slow degrees, and gentle methods, and
produce that e&ct imperceptibly whidi
we find ourselves unable to accompli^ at
once.
I cannot therefore think, that the datj
of three shilling a gallon can be imposed
without defieatmg our own des%n, and
compellinff the people to find out some
method of eludmg the law like that which
was practised after the act by wludi. ID the
second year of his present msjesty, five
shillings were imposei npaa every galka
of compound waters, aftnr which it is veO
known, that the distUlers sold a simple
spirit under the contemptuous title of nr*
liament Brandy, and the law being unirer-
aallv evaded, was soon after repealed as
useless.
Such, my lords, or wone, wOl be the
consequence of the tax whidi the noble
lord has proposed; 'finr if it cannot be
evaded, mirits will be brought fiom dsp
tions that nave been wiser than to burthen
their own commoditiea with audi insup-
portable impost, and the enqitre will soon
be impoverished by the exportatioii of its
money.
Lord Hervey :
Mv lords; I am y&ry fior firm
thinking tne arguments of the noble lord
such as can influence men desirous to pro-
mote the real and durable haj^iness of
their countiy; for he is aolicitoos ooly
about the prosperity of the Britidi laanu-
fiurtures, and ttie preaervatioD of the Bri-
tish trade, but has shewn very little regard
to British vutue. That part of his argu-
ment is therefore not necessary to be an-
swered, if the suggestion i^pon wUchitis
founded were true, smoe it will be siifi-
cient to conmare the advantage of the two
schemes. And with r^;ard to faia insinn-
ation, that parliament brandy mar be re»
vived by a tu^h duty, I believe^ mat, thai
no such eviiBion can be contrived^ and ia
the next place, am confident, that it may
be defeated by burthening the new-invent-
ed h'^uor, wliatever it be, if it be equally
pemidous, with an equal tax. The pato
of our du^, my lords, is plain ud eaqr,
and only represented difficult by thoae wns
are incbned to deviate firon it*
W5]
«ft ike Jfyiriiuous Liqttors
Lord Bttihursi :
My lords ; whatever measures may
s practised by tile people for eluding the
iirposes of the Bm now brfore us, with
haterer industry tiiey itiay invent new
inds of F^liament Brandy, or by what-
rer artifices they may escape the diligence
r the officers employed to collect a duty
vied upon their vices and their pleasures,
lere is, at least, no danger, that they will
iirchase from the continent those liquors
hich we are endeavouring to withhold
cm them, or that this Bill will impoverish
ir countiy by promoting a trade contrary
\ its interest
What would be tiie consequence of the
tity of three 8hillin§|s a gallon, projposed
V the noble lord, it is easy to judg^e.
Hiat, my lords, can be expected from it,
lit that It will either oblige or encourage
16 venders df spirits to procure from other
laces what they can no longer buy for
»8onable prices at home ? and that those
runkards who cannot or will not suddenly
^ange their customs, will purchase from
^Toad the pleasures which we withhold
om them, and the wealth of the nation
e daily diminished, but the virtue littie
icreased? Thus, my lords, shall we at
Qce destroy our own manufacture and
romote that of our neighbours. Thus
lall we enrich other governments by dis-
messing our own, and instead of increasing
>briety, only encourage a more expensive
id pernicious kind of debauchery.
In the Bill now under our consideration,
middle way is proposed, by which re-
>rmation may be introduced by those gra-
utions which have always been found ne-
»sary when inveterate vices are to be
acountered. In this Bill every necessary
)nsideration appears to have been re-
ftrded, the healtn of the people will be
reserved, and their virtue recovered,
ithout destroying their trade or starving
teir manufacturers.
The efficacy of this Bill seems, indeed,
» be allowea by some of the lords who
[>po6e it, since their chief objection has
risen from their doubts whether it can be
Kecuted. If a law be useless in itself, it
of no importance whether it is executed
c not; and therefore, I think, it may
ifely be inferred, that they who are soh*
|tous how it may be enforced, are con*
iDced of its usefuJness.
If this, my lords, be the chief objection
ow renudmn^, a little consideration will
^y remove it ; for it is well known^^th^t
Bill. A. D. 1743. [1406
the only obstruction of the former law was
the danger of information ; but tiiis law^
my lords, is so contrived, that it will pro.
mote the execution of itself; for by set*
ting licences at so low a price, their num-
ber will be multiplied, and eveiy man who
has taken a licence will think himself jus-
tified in informing against him that snail
retail roirits without a legal right.
If, therefore, there should t^, as a noble
lord has very reasonably supposed, 50,000
licensed venders of these liquors, there
will likewise be 50,000 informers against
unlawful traders ; and as the liouprs may
then always be had under sanction of the
law, the populace will not interest them-
selves in that process which can have no
tendency to obstruct their pleasure.
Thus, my lords, shall we, by agreeing
to this Bill, make a law that wflf be at once
usefiil to the government and beneficial to
the people, which will be at once powerfid
in its effiK:ts ^nd easy in its execution^
and therefore, instead of attending any
more to the wild and impracticable schemee
of heavy taxes, rigorous punishments, sud-
den reformations, and violent restraints, I
hope we shall unanimously approve this
method, from which so muoi may be
hoped, while nothing is hazarded.
The Earl of Chesterfield :*
Mv lords ; though the noble lord
who has been pleased to incite us to an
unanimous concurrence with himself and'
his associates of the ministry in passing
this excellent and wonder-working Bill,
this Bfll which is to lessen the consumption
of spirits, without lessening tiie quanti^
which is distilled, which is to restrain
drunkards frcnn drinking, by letting their
favourite liauor always before their eyes^
to conquer nabits by continuing them, and
correct vice by indulging it, accordmg to
the lowest reckoning, for at least anotiier
year ; vet, my lords, such is my obstinacy,
or such my ignorance, that I cannot yet
comply wiUi his proposal, nor can prevail
with myself either to concur with measures
so apparentiy opposite to the interest of
the j>ublic, or to hear them vindicated,
without declaringhow littie I approve tiiem.
During the course of this long ddbate I
have endeavoured to reo^itulate and di-
gest the arguments which have been ad-
vanced, and have considered them both
'* lo the Colleetioo of Dr. Johnson's De
bates, thisSpeeeli is erroneously attrilnited to
lord Carteret.
1407J 16 GEORGE 11.
Bgparftte and conjoined ; but fi&d myself
at the same distance from CQnviction as
when I entered the House ; nor do 1 ima«
gin«» Uiat ihey can ipucli afiect any man
who does not Toluniarily assist them by
strong prejudice.
In vindication (^this Billy my lords, we
have beeQ told» that the present law is in-
effectual ; that our manufacture is not to
be destroyed, or not tliis year ; that the
security offered by the present Bill has in-
duced great numbers to subscribe to the
new fund ; that it has been approved by
the Commons ; and that, if it be found in-
effectual, it may be amended another ses«
aioik
AU these aiyuments, my lords, I shall
endeavour to examine, because I am al-
ways desirous of gratifying those great
men to whom the ^ministration of affliirs
is entrusted* and have alwavs very cau*
tiously avoided the odium or disaffection
which they will undoubtedly threw, in
imitati<m of their predecessors, upon all
those whose wavward consciences shall
obl^ them to hinder the execution of
dieir schemes.
With a very strong desire, therefore,
though with no great hopes, of finding
them in the right, I venture to begin my
enquiry, and engage in the examination of
their mrst assertion, that the present law
agsjust the abuse of strong liquors is with-
out effect. I hope, my lords, it portends
well to my enquiry, that the first position
which I luive to examine is true, nor can
I forbear to congratulate your lordships
upon having heam from the new ministry
one assertion not to be oHitradicted.
It is evident, my lords, firom daily ob-
servation, and demonstrable from the
papeis upon the table, that every year,
since the enaction of the last law, that vice
bas increased which it was intended to
repress, and that no time has been so
l&voun^ to the retailers of spirits as
thai which has passed nnce they were pro-
hibited.
It nay dicrefore be expected, my lords,
that having agreed with the ministen in
ihm fiiodimiental proposition, I shall con-
cur with diem in the consequence which
tfiaj draw from it; and having allowed
that the present law is ine&ctual, should
adirtit that another is necessary.
But, my lords, in order to discover whe-
ther this consequence be necessary,, it
siuat .first be enquired why the present
law is of no force. For, my lords, it will
be found upon reflection, that there are
DehAiJt in ike Lards
[Iff!
certain degrees of cormption (hit bb*
hinder the effects of the best laws. 1^
magistratea may be vicious, snd foibev
to enforce that law, by wliddi thenwlftt
are condemned: they may be iid#.
lenti and incline ratJier to oomn a
wickedness by which they am nst ioj«i4
themselves, than to repress it by a Umr).
ous exertion of their autl^ntv) wtkn
may be timorous, andinst^of strisgtiie
vicuHis, m^y b^ awed by them.
In any of these cases, my lorii, tin
hw h not to be condemned tor iti iA
cacy* sinoe it only &ils by the defect of
those who are to direct its 9Dentio«}
the best and most important isvs vil coih
tribute very little to the securi^sirfbip.
piness of a people, if no jud^^ cfiaie.
grity and spirit can be foaod nimi^
Uiem. Even the most benefidsl Md m>
ful Bill that ministers can pswUy m-
gine, a Bill for la^ii^ on oursMsistaL
of the fifth part of theu: yearly viIbq^vmU
be wholly without eSbct^ if colJMlm
could not be obtained.
I am thwefore, my lords, yetdoqkH
whether the inefficacy of the bv asv ob-
sisting necessarily obliges us to pon^
another; for those tbatdecbmdaisbr
useless, owned at the same time^ An «
nian endeavoured to enforce it: sv tfaa
perhaps ita only defect msy bs^ Itat il
will not execute itself. Nor tbo^g^ I
should allow, that the law is st psaa
impeded by dftfficulties whidi cusMt k
broken through, but by men of bmmi
spirit and dignity than the miniitea m
be inclined to tiiist with oomoiiMOMdf
the peace, yet it can only be cslkcai
that another law is- necesoaiy, not M
the law now proposed will be fifaijii»
vantage.
Great use has been made of the heft*
oacy of the present law to dsciylkepn*
posal made by the noble lord for kji^
a hiffb duty upon these pemidsiiiifMiai
High duties have already, ss weana*
formed, been tried withdut sdnat^;
high duties are at this hour isiiMsai spa
those spirits which biq retaflsd, jiot m
see them every day sold k the Md
without the payment of Uie t&« n^
ed; and therefore it will belollirlavb
a seeond essay of means whiob Wvekeei
found, by the experience of msDjjfoob
unsuccessful.
It has been granted on sU«deiiBlks
debate; nor was it ever dspM sb ^
other occasion, that the oumttrnftim*
any cmomodtty is most ^j}»i^^
i
1409]
en the Spirihtaus Liqwrs BilL
dared hj nisbg itt price* and iu price is
to be nuied by the imporition of a duty ;
this, my lords, which is, I suppcee, tne
opinion of every man, of whatever degree
of ei^perience or understandioff, appearB
likewise to have been thought by. toe au-
thors of the present law ; and therefore
they imagined, that they had effectually
provided against the increase of drunken-
ness, by lajrin^ upon that liquor which
shoidd be retaded in small quantities, a
duty which none of the inferior classes of
drunkards would be able to pay.
Thus, my lords, they conceived, that
thev bad reformed the common people
without infrineing the pleasures of others,
and appUuded toe luqppy contrivance by
which spirits were to be made dear only
to the poor, while every man who could
afford to purchase two gaUons was at li-
berty to riot at his ease, and over a full
flowuw bumper look down with contempt
upon ms former companions, now rutn-
l^slv condemned to disconsolate sobrie^,
or obliged to regale themselves with liauor
which did no n^edy execution upon toeir
cares, but held them for many tediouii
hours in a languishing possession of their
senses and their limbs.
But, my lords, this intention was frus-
trated, and the project, ingenious as it
was, fdl to the mund; for though they
had laid a tax, they unham^ily forgot, that
this tax would make no addition to the
price, unless it was paidj and that it
would not be paid, unless some were em-
powered to collect it.
Here, my lords, was the difficulty: those
who msde the law were indinea to lay a
tax from iriiich themsdves should be
exempt, and therefore would not charae
the hauor as it issued from the stifi:
and wn^ once it was disperrad in the
hands of potty dealers, it was no longer to
be founa without the assistance of in-
formers, and infonners could not carry on
the business of persecution, without the
consent of the people.
It is not necessary to dwell any longer
upon the law of which the repeal is pro-
posed, since it ^>pears already, that it fail-
ed only from a partiality not easily de-
fended, and from the omission of what is
BOW proposed, the collection of the duty
as the liquor is dUstilled.
If this method be followed, there will
be no longer any need of information, or
of any rigorous or new measures; the
same officers that collect a smaller duty
noay levy a greater, nor can they be easily
[VOL. XII. 3
. A. D. 174S. [I4I0
deceived with regard to the quantities
that are made ; the deceits, at least, that
can be used, are in use already ; they are
frequently detected and suppressed; nor
will a larger duty enable the disttliers to
elude the vigilance of the officers with
more success.
Against this proposal, therefore, the in-»
efficacy of the present law can be no ob-
jection; but it is urged, that such duties
would destroy the trade of distilling, and a
noble lord lias been pleased to express
great tenderness for a manufacture so be-
neficial and extensive.
I cannot but sometimes wonder, my
lords, at the amazing variety of mteUects^
which every day fumidbes some opportu-
nity or other of observing, and whicn can*
not but be remarked on this occasion^
when one produces against a proposal the
very aigument whidi another orors in its
favour. That a large duty levied at the
still would destroy or very much impair
the trade of distOlmg, is certainly supposed
by those who defend it, for they pr«^K)sed
it only for that &bd ; and what better me-
thod can they propose, when they aro
called to delitierate upon a Bill for the pre*
vention of the excessive use of distuled
liquors ?
The noble lord has been pleased kindly
to inform us, that the trade of distilling la
very extensive, that it employs mat num«
hers, and that they have arrived at exqui*
site skill, and therefore-^note well the
consequence — ^the trade of distilling is not
to be discouraged.
Once more« my lords, allow me to won*
der at the different conceptions of different
understandings. It appears to me, that
since the spirits which the distillers pro-
duce are allowed to enfeeble the limbs»
and vitiate the blood, to pervert the heart,
and obscure the intellects, that the number
of distillers should be no argument in their
fiivour! For I never heard ihkt a law against
thefr was repealed or delayed, b^use
thieves were numerous. It appears to me,
toy lords, that if so formidable a body are
confederated against the virtue er the lives
of their feUow-citizens, it is time to put an
end to the havoc, and to interpose, while it
is yet in our power to stop tha destruction*
As little, my lords, am I affiscted with
the merit of the wonderful skill which the
dtnillers are said to have attained : it is, in
my opinion, no faculty of great use to man-
kind, to prepare palatable poison ; nor shall
lever contribute my interest for the re^
prieve of a murderer, because he has, by
HU]
16 GBOBGB U.
long practice, obdutied great dczierttj in
his trade.
If their liqaois are so ddiciotis, tliat the
pe<}plc are tempted to their own destrac*
tioiii let us at length, my lorda, secare
them from these fatal draughts, by burst-
ing tlie viab that contain them ; let us
crush at once these artists in slaughter,
who have reconciled their countrymen to
sickness and to ruin, and spread over the
pitfolls of debauchery such baits as cannot
be resisted.
The noble lord has indeed admitted, that
this Bill may not be found sufficiently coer*
cive, but gives us hopes that it may be im-
proved and enforced another year, and
persuades us to endeavoupthe reformation
of drunkenness by d^rees, and above all,
to beware at present of hurting the * ma«
nuihcture.*
I am very fir, my lords, from thinking,
that there are this year any peculiar rea-
sons for tolerating murder; nor can I con-
ceive why the manufacture should be held
Aicred now, if it be to be destroyed here-
after ; we are, indeed, desired to try how
far this law will operate, that we may be
more able to proceed with due regard to
ibis valuable manufacture.
With regard to the operation of the law,
it appears to me, that it will only enrich
the government without reforming the
people, and I believe there are not many
of a different opinion ; if any diminution
o£ the sale of snirits be expected from it,
it is to be considered, that this diminution
will or will not be such as is desired for the
-reformiition of the people ; if it be suffi-
cient, the manufacture is at tin end, and all
the reasons against a higher duty are of
equal force against this'; but if it is not
sufficient, we have, at least, omitted part
of our duty, and have neglected the hmth
and virtue of the people.
I cannot, my lords, yet discover, why a
Reprieve is dessred for this manufacture,
wh^ the present year is not equally pro-
pitious to the reformation of mankmd as
any will be that may- succeed it. It is
true we are at war with two nations, and,
perhaps, witli more; but war may be better
prosecuted without money than without
men, and we but little consult the military
filory of our country, if we raise supplies
for paying our armies, by the destruction
of those armies that we are contriving to
We have heard the necessity of reform-
ing the nation by degrees, urged as an ar-
gument for impoiing first a fighter duty.
JMalBmtkeL&ttb tHtt
and afterwards a heavier; tfus oonspbi.
sance for wickedness, my lords, is not ss
defensible as that it should be battered by
arguments in form, and therefore, 1 afaail
only relate a reply made by Wdbh^ the
noted walker, upon a parallel occasion.
This roan, who must be remembered by
many of your lordshios, was remarkahle fiv
vffiour, both of minq and body, apd lived
wholly upon water for his drink, and
chiefly upon vegetables for his other sus-
tenance; he was one day recommendiiig
his regimen to one of his friends who
loved wine, and who perhaps might aome-
what contnbote to :die prosperity of thu
* spiiituous raanu&cture/ and or^ged hra,
with great earnestness, to quit a coarse of
luxury by which his health and bis intel-
lects would equally be destroyed. The
eentlenan appeared convinced, and told
mm, ' that he would conform to his coun-
sel, and thought he could not <^iaiige his
course of life at once, but would leave olF
strong liquors by duress.* * By degrea ?
says the other, with indignation ; * If you
should unhappily &U into the &re, would
you caution your servants not to puU you
outbutbyd^frees?* This answer, my lords,
is applicimle in the present case ; the nsp
tion 18 sunk into the lowest state of cor-
ruption, the people are not only vicioos
but insolent beyond examine, thej not only
break the laws but defy them, and yet
some of your lordships are for rdbmung
them by degrees.
I am not easily persuaded, my lords,
that our ministers really intend to aupply
the defects that mayhereafler be disco-
vered in this Bill : it will doubtless pro-
duce money, perhaps much more than they
rttr to expect from it; I doubt not but
licensed retailers will be more thsa
50,000, and ^e quantity retailed must in-
crease with the number of retailers. As
the Bill will therefore answer all the ends
intended by it, I do not expect to see it
altered, for I have never observed anau-
ters desirous of amending their own erron,
unless they are such as produce a defi-
ciency in the revenue.
Besides, my lords, it is not certain, that
when this fund is mortgaged to tfi^ public
creditors, they can prevail upon the Com-
mons to change their securi^; they may
continue the Bill in force for the reasoas,
whatever they are^ fmr whidi tbey have
passed it, and the good intentioiia of our
ministers, however sincere, may be de*
foated, and drunkenness, Iqpil driinkeD-
ness, estaUid&ed in the nation, inus, ray
4W]
on ilk ^ifihtm» Uqu^s BilL
A. D, 174S.
[1414
ords» IB ▼eryraatomble; yndflierefotewe
Mjght to exert oondivea ibr the safetj of
he nation, while the power is yet in our
» wn hands, and witfaout regacd to the opi->
lion or proceedings of the other Hoote,
bow that we are yet <he chief guardians of
he people, and the most Tijdant adrer-
aries of wickednen.
The seady comptianee of the Commons
rith the meesursa proposed in this Bill,
las been mentioned here with a view, I
uppose, of influencing ns, but surely by
hose who had forgotten our independence,
»r resigned their own* It is not only the
jght, but the duty of either House, to de-
iberate without regard to the determina-
ions of the other; for how would the na«
ion receive any benefit from the distinct
powers that compose the legislature, unless
heir determinations are without influence
ipon each other i If either the example or
ludiority of the Commons can divert us
rom following our own convictions, we
ire no longer part of the legislature; we
lave given up our honours imd our privi-
eges, and what then isonr concurrence
ml slavery, or our sufirage but an echo f
The only aigument therefore that now
Bmains, is the expediency of gratifying
hose by whose ready subscription the ex-
gendes which the coimsds of our new
tatesmen have brought upon us, and of
Mmtinuittg the security by which they
lave been encouraged to such liberal con«
ribotions.
Public credit, my lords, is indeed of
rery great inuportance, but public credit
»n never be long supported without pub-
ic virtue ; nor indeed if the government
rould mortgage the roonris and health of
he people, would it be just or rational to
^nmm thebanrBam. Ifthe ministry can
aiae money only by the destruction of
heir fellow-subjects, they ought to aban-
lon those schemes for whidi me money is
lecessary: for what calamity can be equal
0 unbounded wickedness ? But, my lords,
here is no necessity for a choice which
nay cost us or our ministers so much re*
^ ; for the same subscriptions may be
procured hj an ofier of the same advan-
ages to a fund of any other Icind, and the
inking fund will easily supply any defici-
ncy that might be suspected in another
cheme.
To confess the truth, I should feel very
ittle pain fhan an account that the nation
Fas for some time determmed to be less
iberal of thenr contributkm, and that
aoBcgr waa widibddi tiU it waa known in
what expeditions it was to be employed,
to what princes subsidies were to be paid^
teid what advantages were to be aurchased
by it for our country. 1 should rejoice,
my lords, to hear that the lottery, by which
tlie deficiencies of this duty are to be sup*
plied, was not filled ; and that, the people
were grown at last wise enough to aiscern
the fraud, and to prefer honest commerce,
by which all may be gainers, to a game by
which the greatest number must certainly
lose, and in which no man can reasonably
expect that he shall be the happy favourite
of fortune, on whom a prize shall be con-
ferred.
The lotteries, my 'lords, which former
ministers have proposed, have always been
censured by those that saw their nature
and their tendency; they have been con^
sidered as legal cheats, by which the igno-
rant and the rash are defrauded, and the
subtle and avaricious oflen enriched ; they
have been allowed to divert the people
from trade, and to alienate them from us^
ful industry. A man who is uneasy in his
circumstances, and idle in his disposition^
collects the remains of his fortune, and
bujTi tiekeU in a lottery, retires from
business, indulges himself in laziness, and
waits, in some obscure place, the event of
his adventure. Another, instead of em-
ploying his stock in a shop or warehouse,
rents a garret in a private street, and makes
it his busmess, by f%dse intelligence, andT
chimerical alarms, to raise and sink the
price of tickets alternately, and takes
advantage of the lies which he has himself
mvent
Such, my lords, is the traffic that is pro-
duced by this scheme of raising money ;
nor were these inconveniences unknown to
the present ministers in the time of tlieir
predecessors, whom they n^ver failed to
punue with the loudest clamours, when-
ever the exigencies of the government re*
duoed them to a lottery. , '
If I, my lords, might presume to recom-
mend to our ministers the most probable
method of raising a large sum for the pay-
ment of the troops of the electorate, I
should, instead of the tax and lottery now
proposed, advise them to establish a cer-
tain number of licensed wheel-barrows, on
which the laudable trade of thimble and
button might be carried on for the support
of the war, and shoe-boys might contribute
to the defence of the House of Austria,
by raffling for apples.
Having now, my lords, examined with
the utmost candour, all the reasooa which
U15] 16 GEORGE II.
have been ofered in defence of the Bill, I
cannot coDoeal the result of nij enquiry.
The arguments have had so little eifcct
open my understandings that as every man
judges of others by hunself, I cannot be«
li^ve that they have any influence, even
upon those that oiler them ; and therefore
I am convinced, that this Bill must be the
result of considerations which have been
hitherto concealed, and is intended to
promote designs which are never to be
discovered by the authors before their ex«
ecutton.
With regard to these motives and de-'
signs, however artfully concealed, every
]<wd in this House is yet at liberty to
olier his conjectures; andthereibre I shall
▼enture to lay before you what has arisen
in my mind, without pretending to have
diseoveied with absolute certainty, what
aadi accomplished politicians have endea-
voured to conceal.
When I consider, my lords, the ten-
dency of this Bill, I find it calculated only
for the propagation of diseases, the sup-
pression of industry, and the destruction
of mankind ; I find it the most fiital engine
that ever was pointed at a people, an en-
gine by which those who are not killed
will be disabled, and those who preserve
their limbs, will be deprived of their
^ This Bin therefore appears to be de-
signed only to thin the ranks of mankind,
and to disburthen the world of Uie mul-
titudes that inhabit it ; and is, perhaps,
the strongest proof of pditicid saffacity
that our new ministers have yetexhmited.
They well know, my lords, that they are
iinivenally detested, and Uiat wherever an
Englishman is destroyed, they are freed
from an enemy; they have therefore
opened the flood-^tes of gin upon the
nation, that when it is less numerous, it
mBLY be more easily governed.
Other ministers, my lorcU, wfad had not
attained to so great a knowledge in the
art of making war upon their country,
when they found their enemies clamorous
and bold, used to awe them with prosecu-
tions and penalties, or destroy them like
burglars, with prisons and with gibbets
But every age, my lorda, produces some
improvement, and every nation, however
degenerate, gives birth at some happy pe-
riod of time to men of great ana enter-
prising genius. It is our fortune to be
witnesses of a new discovery in politics ;
we may coni^tulate ourselves upon being
Mnteodpocanes with those men who have
DdateiniheLmb [1416
shown that hangmen and haiten I
oessary in a state, and that miiiii
escape the reproach of destmying
enemies, by inciting them to destroy i
selves.
This new method ma^, indeed, have
upon diibrent constitutions a difccnt
operation; it may destroy tiie lives of
some, and the senses of otIierB; batdlher
of these efccts w91 answer the j^uposes of
the miniBtry, to whom it " — -»-«
provided the nation beoen
whether pestilence or Iwin^
among them. Either mad or dead, the
greatest part of the people oiast ^lucUy
be, or there is no hope of tiie cftnliniiac
of the present ministiy.
For .this purpose, my lorda, whet ooald
have been mvented more effcncioos tlaa
an establishment of a certain nmnber sf
shops at which poison may be vended;
poison so prepared, as to please the ps-
late while it wastes the strength, snd to
kill only by intoxication i From the fiist
instant that any of the enemiea of the mi-
nistry riiall grow damorous and toiba-
lent, a crafty nirding may lead him to the
ministerial slaoa^rJuNise, and ply him
with thdr won£nr*wofking liqaor, till he
is no longer able to qpeak or tiunk ; and,
my lords, no man can be more mgnakk
to our ministers than he that can neither
speak nor think, except thoae who ^wsk
without thinldnff.
But, my lonu, the ministen oa^ to
reflect, that though- all the people of the
present age are their enemwa, yet they
tiave made no trial of the temper mod in-
clinations of posterity; onrsoooeasonmaj
be of opinions very diflerent ftom oars;
they may perhaps approve of ware en the
continent, while our plantationa are m-
suited, and our trade ohafauUed; they
wmy thifik the support of the House of
Austria of more importanoe to na ^han oar
own defence, and may perhaps ao §u
diflier from their fitthers, aa to iaufw
the treasures of Great Britain very pio>
perljf employed in sopportii^ tlie troeps,
and increasing the spUador, of a foreign
electorate.
Sinoe dierefore it win not be deasod bf
our ministers, that the afcction and gia-
titnde of posterity may atone fiv Aeob-
stinacy, blindness, and mdice of the pre-
sent age ; since those meaaurea which sie
now univeiaally censured, asay ist sane
distant tone he praised with eow aaau-
mi^; why, my lords, dioahl tbey extead
their veogesnce to the r — "'
117]
OH the SpirUuoui Liquort Bttl.
A. D. 1743.
[1418
as the underpUmdiDgs of posterity^
irdently desire^ a race of cripplei
ation? Why ahould they eDdeovoiir to
orture their limhs with painvy and load
heir lives with the suih of their parenti?
^*hy should they hinder that trade to
rhich they most owe all the comforts
rhich plenty affords? Why should Uiey
ndeavoer to intercept their existence,
n suffer them to exist only to be
fretched?
If I may once more declare my senti«
nents,nly lords, I believe the mbisters do
lot so much widi to debilitate the bodies
nor so
as of
fools. "^For cripples, my lords,' can make
DO figure at a review, nor strut in a red
coat with a tolerable grace ; but fools are
known by long esroerience to be the prin-
cipal support of an army, since* they
ftre the only persons who are willing to
pay it.
Whatever, my lords, be the true rea-
sons for which this Bill is so warmly pro-
moted, I think they ought, at least, to be
deliberately examined ; and therefore can-
not think It consistent with our regard for
the nation to suffer it to be precipitated
into a law. The year, my loras, is not so
far advanced as that supplies majr not be
raised by some other method, if this should
be rejected; nor do I thmk that we ought
to consent to this, even though our re-
fusal should hinder the supplies, since we
have no right, for the sake of any advan-
tage, however certain or great, to violate
all the laws of heaven and earth, to doom
thousands to destruction, and to fill the
excheouer with the price of the lives d
our fellow-subjects.
Let us therefore, my lords, not suffinr
ourselves to be driven forward with such
haste as may hinder us from observmg whi-
ther we are gomg; let us not be persuad-
ed to precipitate our counsels by those who
know that all ddays will be detrimental to
their -designs, because delays may produce
new information, and they are conscious
that the Bill will be less approved the
more it is understood. But every reason
which tiiey can ofinr against the motion,
is, in my opinion, a reason for it ; and
therefore I shall readily agree to post-
Pthe clause, and no less readily to re-
theBflL
If at hat reason and evidence are vain,
if neither justMO nor compassion can pre-
vail, but the nation must be destroyea for
the support of the gofemment, let us at
lesst, my lords, coimne our asseitioni, in
the proMable^ to truth ; let ns not afirm,
That drunkenness is established by the
advice or consent of the Lords * Spiritual
since I am confident not one of tnem will
so far contradict his own- doctrine, as to^
vote for a Bill which gives a sisinction to
one vice, and ministers opportunities and
temptations to all others; and which, if
it be not speedily repealed, will overflow
die whole nation with a deluge of wids*
The Earl of /%:
My lords; I have attended for •
long time to the noble lord, not wiUiottf
some decree of uneasiness, as I think the
manner m which he has treated the ques-
tion neither consistent with the dignity at
this House, nor with those rules wnicb
ought to be ever venerable, the mat rulea
of reason and humanity. Yet being now
arrived at a time of life in which Uie paa*
sions grow calm, and patience earily pra«
vails over any sudden disgust or pertarbe«
tion, I forbore to disconcert him, tboudi
I have known interruption produced by
much slighter provocations.
It is, my lords, in my opinion, a just
maxim, that our deliberations can reoeive
very little assistance from merriment and
ridicule, and that truth is seldom disco-
vered by those who are chiefly solicitoqa
to start a jest. To convince the under*
standing, and to tickle the fancy, are pur-
poses ver}' different, and must be promoted
by different means ; nor is he always tA
imagine himself superior in the dispute^
who is applaud|ed with the loudest laugh.
To laugh, my lords, and to endeavour
to communicate the same mirth to others,
when great affairs are to be Considered, is
certainly to n^lect the end for which we
are assembled, and the reasons for which
the privilege of debating was originally
granted us. For doubtless, my lords, our
honours and our power were not conferred
upon us, that we might be merry with the
better grace, or that we might meet at
certain times to divert ourselves with turn-
ing the great aflkirs of the nation to
ridicule.
But, my lords, still less defensible is
this practice, when we are contriving the-
relief of misery, or the reformation of
vice; when calamities are preying upon*
thousands, and the happiness not only of
the present age, but of posteritv, must
depend upon our resolutions. He that
can divert nimself with the sight of misery,
has surely very little cbdm to the great
praise of bunani^ and tendQcness; nor
MIO]
le.OEOttGE IL
Ihiafe in the Lords
[t420
«ad he he juatty exmnpted Mmtheeen-
mire of ibcreauoK eviL, who wastet ao
hughley and jocuuurkj ihat time in. which
he might relieve them.
The Bill new before ub hai been repre*'
denied b^ those that oppose it, as big widi
destruction, and dangerous both to the
Kves and to the virtue of the people. We
havebean told* that it wHl at once fill the
land with sickness and with viUainTy and
that it will be at the same time &tal to
our trade, and to our power; yet those
^ho afe wiUii^ to be thought fearful of
il these evils, and ardently desirous of
airerting them from their countiy, cannot
without laughter mention the Bill which
they oppose, or enumerate the conse-
quences which they dread from it, in any
Other language than that o£ irony and
burlesque.
.. Surely, my lords, such conduct gives
saason tor ijoestioning either their huma*
nity, or their sincerity ; for if they reaUy
lirar such dreadful calamities, how can
they be at leisure for mirth and gaiety ?
how can they sport over the grave of
millions, and inaulge their vain ridicule,
when the ruin of their country is ap-
proaching ?
But without enquiry, whether they who
oppose the Bill will grant their opposition
hypocritical, or their patriotism languid, I
shall lay my opinion of this new reguladmi
before your lordships with equal ^aedom,
though with less luxuriance of imaeina^
ttoo, and less gaiety of language. Of this
Bill, notwithstanding the acuteness with
which it has been examined, and the acri-
mony with which it has been censor^ I
am not afraid to affirm, that it is neither
wicked nor absurd, that all its parts are
consistent, and that the effects to be ex-
pected from it are sobriefy and health.
I cannot find, upon the dosest examina-
tion, either that U will defeat its own end,
or that the end proposed by it is difierent
from that which is professed.
The charge of encouraging vice and
toleratmg drunkenness, wuh which the
defenders of this Bill have been so libe-
i*Uy aspersed, may be, in my opinion,
more jitttlv retorted upon those that op-
pose it; who, thoush they plead for the
oontbuance of a kw, rigorous indeed,
end wdl mtended, own that it has by Uie
experience of several yean been found
^^hat, my Imrds, can a drunkard or n
praffigate be supposed to wish, but that
the Iw may mik lemin in its prasent
state, that he may still be porsued m a
traok by which he knows how to eacape,
and opposed by restraints which he is^
to break ? What can he desire* but thst
the book of statutes should lie U9e]ca^
and that no laws should be made agamst
him, but sttdi as cannot be put in execo*
tion ^
The defects of the present l^w are in-
deed very numerous ; nor ousht it to be
continued, even though no other were to
be substituted. It seems to suppose the
use of distiUed liquors absolutely unlawfbl,
and therefore imposed upon licences a
duty so enormous, that only three were
taken in the whole kingdom, and the peo-
ple were therefore obuged to obtain by
lUeml^methpds what they could not per-
suade theiaselves wholly to forbear.
The method of detecting offenders was
likewise such as gave opportunity for vil-
lainy to triumph ov^ innocence, and for
perjury to grow rich with the launder of
the poor. Even charity itaelt might be
punished by it; and he that gave a glass
of spirits to a man fiuntin^ uackr poverty,
or sickness, or fotigue, might be punished
as a retailer of spirits withoat a licence.
These defects, which were not seen
when the law was made, soon excited a
dislike. No man enforced the execution
of it, because eyery man knew that on
some occasions he might himaelf break it ;
and they who suffered for the vicdatioo of
it, were often pitied by those whose of-
fice obliged them to punish them. Thus
tlie law, after having been executed a fev
months with rigour, was laid aside as im-
practicable, and appeal^ now to be taddy
repealed; for it is apparently aa empty
form witiiout efiect.
If therefore the use of spirits be so de-
structive as is generally allowed, it is
surely necessary,thBt the legiftlature should
at hist repair the defiects of the former
law, and the nation should not he vituted
and mined, without some endeayours for
its preservation; and, in my minion, to
lay a double duty upon th^ u^uors, is
very rational and prudent. An increase
of toe price must lessen the conayoiption.
To what degree the consumption will
be diminished by^this new duty, I am not
able to foretel; >ut undoubtedly some
dimii^tttion will be produced, eod toe least
diminution will affinrd us this oomfbit, that
the evil doea not increase upon ne, and
that this law is thtfefcwe better than that
which we have repealed. For thia reaaon,
my bids, I approve the pies^ fiill» widh
BI]
on the SjdrHuoas Lifuou Bill*
it enquiring whether it is perfect ; it is
ifficieDtTor me in the preaedt exieeaee^
lat the nation wiil gain something by the
lange, and the people will be dtavn
Barer to sobriety, temperance, and in-
istry. Thus, my lords, without psmng
ly regard to the determination of the
Jier House, I think the Bill sufficiently
efensible by reason and policy ; nor can
conceal my opinion, that those who op-
twe it are the real enemies of their
Duntry.
The question, Whether the House
lould now be resumed, was then put, and
etcrmined in tlie negative by 56 against
5. — The other Clauses were then read,
od agreed to. After which
Lord Sandwich rose and said :
My lords ; as the importance of the
till now before us justly demands the ma-
irest consideration, it is not without un-
gual concern, that I observe the absence
f many lords, for whose wisdom and ex-
en'ence I have the highest veneration,
nd whom I esteem equally for their pe-
etration and their integntv. I should
ope, that all those who reel m their hearts
iie love of their country, and are con-
cious of abilities to promote its happiness,
'ould assemble on this great occasion, and
tiat the collective wisifom of this House
rould be exerted, when the lives and for-
lines, and, what is yet more worthy of re-
ard, the virtue of the people is involved
) the question. As there can be no avo-
ations which can possibly withhold a
r^ise man from counsels of such moment
0 his country, to himself, and to his
<Mterity ; as there is no interest equiva-
!nt to the general happiness, I cannot
Qppose, that either busmess or pleasure
etain those who have not attended at the
lamination of this Bill ; and therefore
nagine, that they are absent only because
^ey have not been sufficiently informed of
^e importance of the question that 'was
lis day to be discussed.
It is Uierefore, my lords, necessary, in
)y opinion, that on the day of the third
^dins diey be again summoned to at-
end, that the law, which is allowed to be
nly an experiment, of which jthe event is
bsolutely uncertain, may be examined
'Ith the utmost care ; that all its conse-
[uences may be known, so far as human
wisdom is able to discover, and that we
^y at least be exempt from the imputa-
ion of being negligent of the welfare of
urcQuntry, and o£being desirous of avoid-
A. D. 17iS. [1489
ing iafiitmation or enqury , lest ihey should
rettird our measures, or centiadict our as»
sertions. I therefore move, that die thiid
reading of this Bill iasy be delayed till tho
l«t of March, and that immediate sumnona
be issued for all loeds to attend.
Lord Carteret :
My loids ; if it is the intention of
the noUe lords to debate onee more the
usefulnlsss or expedience of th» Bill, if
they have any new argument to produce,
or are desirous of another opportunity to
repeat those which have been already
heard, 1 hope they will not long withhold,
either from themselvte oi^ their opponents,
that satisfiMitioa.*— Your lorddiins are wq
well acquainted with the state or the nob*
lie, and kaow so well the danger of tiie
liberties of the coptinent, the power of the
enemies whom ^^e are to oppose, the dread-
ful conseouences of an onsucoeftsful oppo^
sition, and tlie necessity of vigour and ex«
pedition to procure socoess, that it cannot
be necessaiy to urge the impropriety of.
dela3ring the Bill from which the supplies
are to be expected^— >The convenience of
deferring this Bill, however plauaibiy ro^
presented by the noble lord who made the
motion, is overbalanced by the necessitf
of considering it to-morrow. Neoessity li
an argument which no acuteness can ovev»
throw, and against which eloquence wiM
be employed to little purpose. I there-
fore, my lords, oppose the motion*
Lord Heroey :
My lords ; it is always the kst re^
source of ministers to call those measu^e•
necessary which they cannot show to be
just ; and* when they have tried all the
arts of fallacy and illusion, and found theni
all baffled, to stand at bay, because they
can fly no longer, look their opponents
bokUy in the face, and stun them #ith the
formidable sound of neeeasittjr.*— But it k
generally the fortune of ministers to dis-
cover necessity much sooner than th^y
whose eyes are not sharpened by employ-
ments ; they frequently call that neoessity,
on which no other man would besto# the
title of expediency i and that h setdom ne^
cessary to be done, which others d6 not
think niscessaiy to be avoided.^-At* pre-
sent, my lords, I see nothing necessary,
but what is equally necessary at alUimes,
that we do our duty to eur oolintiy,' and
discharge our trust, without suftring oov^
selves to be terrified wfth itMi|^i]^)r dan«
gerp, or alhirtd by4mi^nary4isnetiiL«SlMi
IttS]
16 6E011GE 11.
DekHe in ike Lards
[MM
war wUdi it taid to produce the
of thit Bill, ist ia mv opimon, not
Mury in itself: and if your lordthipa diier
from me in that sentiment, it must yet be
allowed, that there is time suiicient to
provide supplica by new methods. — But,
my lords, if the motion, in which I con-
cur, be over-ruled on a pretence of neces-
sity, it will show an eacer desire to hasten
a Bill, which if refinred to any twelve men
AOt of either House of Parliament, their
examination would terminate in thjs, that
they bring it in guilty of Wilful Murder*
The Earl of Chdnurnddey :
Mj lords ; as there is no doubt but
particular measures may be sometimes ne-
' oessary, I discover no reason that ought to
Under the mention of that necessity ; for
aurdy where it can be asserted with truth,
it is Uie most powerful of all arguments,
mid cannot be wisely or honestlv n^lected.
In the present case, my lords, I can dis-
cover no unpropriety in mentioning it ; for
I simose that noMe lord did not mtend to
restram it to the most rigorous sense ; he
did not mean, that there is the same ne-
cessity of reading this Bill to-morrow for
Ae success of the war, as of extinguishing
a fire for the preservation of a town, but
that the reasons for dispatch ^absolutely
overbalanced all the fitn that coyld bie
cfcred for debjrs.
This necessity, my lords, I am not
ashamed to assert after him; nor can I
thmk it consistent with common prudence,
in the present situation of our affiurs, to
defor the third readins beyond to-morrow ;
for the supplies whicn this Bill must pro-
dooe^ are to be employed in attempts of
the utmost importance, and which cannot
ftil wtthout the ruin of a great part of man-
kind, and an irreparaUe injuiy to this
nation. I cannot therefore but oonfom my
aurprise at the vehemence with which this
Bill is opposed ; vehemence so turbulent
and fierce, that some lords have been
transported beyond that decency which it
is our duty and our interest to preserve in
our deliberations; nor have restrained
diemsdves from expressions, which, upon
feflection, I believe they will not think
defonsiUe; from among whidi I cannot
but particularise the horrid and opprobri-
ous term of murder.
The reverend prehttes, who have spoken
agamst the Bill, may be easily believed to
be as aealoua for virtue as those who have
indulged thenudves in this violence of
H ytt tbsy have never chaiged
those who defend the measures now ^ro-
pooed with the guflt of murder, bothire
decently delivmd their own opiniaBs,
withoot reproaching those who diinBr fran
them. For my part, my lords, as I <
think the motion for forther delay, sea-
sonable or proper, or necessary to the
discovery of truth, or consistent with the
welfare of the nation, it is my resolution tc
vote against it.
The Duke of Bedford :
My lords ; the ardour with frhidi
the noble lord appears to resent the iodig'
nity offered to tne Bill, shows only that ht
himself approves it, but not that it de-
serves die approbation of the House. 1
think it of use, notwithsttmdii^the ptaosi-
ble pleas of decency or politeness, thtt
every thing should in this House be csUed
by its right name, that we may notdiipote
for one thing and vote for nnolKer; and
since Uie Bill will certainly destnvy moUi-
tudes, if it promotes the sale ^ distilled
q>irit8, and it has been proved that it will
promote it, I know not by what aiipdl»>
tion to denominate its edects, if tnt be
denied me, whidi has been afaBady used
TYien the question beine pot that the
third recdiw of the saidBiUbe put offtiD
the 1st of March, it was resolved in the
negative, by 52 against 29.
Fd>.25. The order bemg read for tbe
third reeding of this Bill,
Lord Wervey rose and said* :
My lords; the tendency of the BID,
which we are now to approve or reject, ii
* From the Seeker ManuMcripi.
Feb. 25. Third JReadiDff of the Bill]
to Spiritmnis Liqoora.
Hero^. This Bill win be prododiTe d
murder of all sorts. It will extend its tmet-
quenccs almost as wide ss the forinddeo frait:
but It wOl not be a tree of knowledge, bata
spring of ignorsnce. All Iswgirers hate fn»
vided Air the health of their people Momi
saw the people iodtned to lepraey, and fMsi
swines' desb. 8o Mshomety Ijcorgns, Soloi.
This the original mesaing or « Sahis popai
sopiemalexT The chiefr of the wild ludmi
declared agamst rum being imported lo than.
The colony of Georpa have made a law agaioa
it A total prohibition of strong liqoofi here
was never meant : but only amongst the eooh
moo people for commoo use.
Lmudale. These limiors are now in eSed
prohibited by law, and this is reatoringlbm
by law: which is contrary to all priac^ d
8
1^125] on the SpiriiuousLiquort BUL
0 apparaixtly desCructive to the ends of
pvemment, so apparently dangerous to
public happiness^ and so contrary to the
pstkutions of the most celebrated law-
R'vers, and the policj^ of the most flourish-
g nations, that I still continue to think it
)Dy duty to struggle against it.
Almost every legislator of the world,
my lords, from whatever original he de-
rived his authority* has exerted it in the
prohibition of such foods as tended to in-
jure the health, and destroy the vigour, of
Che people for whom he designed ms insti-
tutions. The great instructor of the ^ews,
who delivered his laws by divine authority,
prohibited the use of swine's flesh, for no
other cause, so far as human reason is able
to discover, than that it corrupted tlie
blood, and produced loathsome diseases
and maladies which descended to pos*
terity ; and therefore in prohibiting, after
his example, the use of liquors which pro-
duce the same effects, we shall follow the
authority ^ the great Governor of the
imiverse.
The author of another religion, a reli-
gion founded indeed on superstition and
credulity, but wliich prevails over a very
great part of the earth, has laid his fol-
lowers under restraints still more severe ;
he has forbidden them to dispel their cares,
or exalt their pleasures, with* wine, has
banished from tneir banquets that useful
opponent of troublesome reflection, and
doomed all those who receive his law, not
policy. The namber of a people is the strength
of a people. This will be diminished in like
nambers : health is a great advantage, which
thps law tends to destroy : and laws under
which people will own and be permitted to
hart themselves, are more hurt than oompul-
sory laws. The next great principle is morals.
. A. D. 174S. [1488
to sobriety onlv, but to abstinence. The
authority of this man, my lords, cannot
indeed be urged as tmexceptionable and
decisive ; but the reception of his impos- .
ture shows, at least, that he was not unac- .
quainted with human nature, and that he «
knew how to adapt his forgeries to the
nations among which he vented them ; nor .
can it be denied, but the prohibition of
wine was found generally useful, since it .
obtained so ready a compliance.
All nations in the world, my lords, in
every age of which there remain any his* ^
torical accounts, have agreed in the neces- .
sity of laying restraint upon appetite, and ,
setting bounds to the wantonness of luxury; .
every legislature has claimed and practised,
the right of withholding those nleasures
which the people have appearea inclined
to use to excess, and preferring the safety,
of multitudes whom liberty would destroy,,
to the convenience of those who would
have enjoyed it within the limits of reason
and of virtue.
The welfare of the public, my lords, hat.
always been allowed the supreme law ;
and when .aay governors sacrifice the ge-
neral good either to private views, or tem-^
porary convenience, they deviate at once^
from integrity and policy, they betray their
trust, and neglect their interest.
The prohibition of those commodities
which are instrumental to vice, b not oiAy
dictated by policy but nature ; nor does it
indeed require much sagacity, when thtf
an innocent one. AU you can say, is, that it
leaves vice where it found it. The prohibitioii
of 9 Geo. S was nominal only : so far as the
distillery keeps out forei^ spirits, it does good.
If you did not distill sjiirits, yon would drink
them ; Rotterdam distills cheaper than yon.
The tenants of this kingdom pay their rents
want of morals divides a society into jarring by their barley : and if we bad no disdllery our
atoms. The next point is trade, and those
trades are to be encouraged which promote the
happiness of a people : and those to be discou-
raged which do tne contrary. I am sorry to
bw the distillers trade, upon the whole, treated
as advantageous : for all the spirits that are
ooasumed beyond what the health of the pco-
Ce require, are destructive. I hoped some-
»dy would have proposed better thoughts than
mine, but nobooy regards the mauer; the
hinded interest doth not snbsbt upon poisoning
the people. It is much better for the farmer
that the foariey should be made into malt than
spirits. If tfie government b to avail itself of
those poisons, the interest of the government
and the people is contrary, which must undo
tlienatioii.
Corterei, I agree in the conseonences of
tioe and virtue: but I think this Bul at least
[VOL. XII.]
barley woold'be worth little. Our chief re-
venue are from follies, our tobaoeo, our tea:
and the last hath made way for gin.
LmudaU. Tea and tobacco may be wrong,
but are not such poisons as gin.
AyUtford,
QuestloD on pessmg the BiH.
C.
N. C.
59.
38.
Proxies S3.
Proxies 17.
In all 8«.
In all 55.
Amongst theoe, all the bishops present, who
wete the same as against the commitment, and
the bishop of London, who came on purpose.
The bishop of St David's did not come to the
House after the S2nd, nor the bishop of Ro-
chester, and the bishops of Bangor, and Win-
cliester, and Lsf daflf, though ia tewa and sblt,
did not come.
t4Y)
lidt j 16 6E0R0E n.
eVil is kno^n, to find the nr6p€T HUAeAf;
fer even the Indians, Who rmre not yet re-
duced the 6rt oFgovemnmntto atoaence,
nor learned tt> m&e long harangues upon
the diferent interests of forekn powers,
the necettity of raising suppfiei, or the
importance and ettent of mataufkcturefi,
have ^et been able todiscoreri that distilled
n^irits are pernicious to tociety, and that
the use of them can only be hindered by
Jirohibitine the sale.^ For this reason, m^
ords, theynave petitioned, that none of this
deh'cious j^olson should be iibported from
Great Britain ; they have desired us to
donfine this fotintain of wickedness and
misery to stream in our own country,
iHthout pouring upon Attn those inunda-
tions of debauchery, by which we are our-
selves overflowed. When we may be sent
with justice to learn from the rude and
%nofant Indians the first elements of civil
wisdom, we have Surely not much right to
boast of our foresight and knowledge ; we
must surely confess, that we have hitherto
valued ourselves upon our arts with very
little reason,^ since we have not learned
how to preserve either wealth or virtue,
either peace or commerce.
^ The maxims of our politicians, my lords,
differ widely fi*om those of the Indian
•ava^, as they are the effecu of longer
consideration, and i^easonings formed upon
more extensive views. What Indian, my
lords, Would have contrived to hinder his
countrymen from drunkenness, by placing
that liquor in their houses which tempted
tfiem to excM ; or would have discovered,
timt prohibitions only were the cause of
boundless excesses; that to subdue the
l^petite nothing was necessary but to so-
hcit it ; and that what was always offered
would never be received ? The Indians, in
the simplicity of men unacquainted with
European and British refinements, ima-
gined, that to put an end to the use of any
.diing, H was only necessary to take it
away ; and conceived, that they could not
promote sobriety more effectually, than
Dy allowing the people nothing with which
they could be drunk.
JBut if our politicians should send mis-
sionaries to teach them the art of govem-
Bdent, they would quiqUy be shpwn, that
if they Would accomplish their design,
tfiey must appoint every tenth man among
%Kem to distribute spirits to the nine, mid
tx) dric/k them himself in what quantity
they shall desire, and that then the peace
of their country- will be no longer dis-
turbed by the quarrels of debauchery.
It is indeed not whhottt iMttsemcDl,
th^t I hear this Bill seriously defended as
a scheme fi)r suppressing dninkennesa^ and
find some lords, who admit that 50,000
houses win be opened for the public sale
of spirits, assert that a less qiumtitj of
spinu will be sold. The foundadon of
this opinion is in itself very uncextam ; for
nothing more is urged, but tliat all wboseQ
under the sanction of a licence, will be
ready to inform against those by wfiom no
licence has been purchased; and ^lat
therefore 50,000 licenced retaBen nay
hurt a greater number who now wdl Spirits
in OMHMltion to the law.
Au this, my lords, is very fot Itatn oer-
t^ty ; for it cannot be proved^ ttm, Aere
BTe now so great a number of reuOea n
this act may produce : it is Hkely that »-
curSty will encourage many to ei^age in
this trade, who are at present detared
firom it by dan|er. It is poiAle, that
those who purdiase licences may never-
theless foibear to prosecute tfaote thatsdl
spirits without the protection of Ae htr.
They may forbear, mv lords, fh>m die
common principles of humanittr, becanse
they think those poor traders aieaerve ra-
ther pity than punishment ; they may for-
bear from a prmciple that operates mote
frequently, and too often move strimgty, a
regard to their own interesL lliey may
themselves offend the law by some otter
parts of their conduct, dnd tta^ be mi-
willing to provoke an inspection mto tbdr
own actions, by betraying officiously the
faults of their neighbours ; or they miqr
be influenced by immediale tenroca, and
expect to be hunted to death by the r^
of the populate.
All these- consideratrans may bo mgtd
against the only suppositiofi that bis been
made, with any show of reason, hi Ikvoor
of the Bill ; and of these various cimzfii-
stancea, some one or other wiU almost al*
wavs be found. Every man wiQ Jiave
either foar or pity, beomiae wknoBt evoy
good man is iodmed fo compsaaiuu, and
every wicked man is in dnager iwrnn d»
law ; and I do not see «iy reason fbr ima-
gining, that the people wiH tdetBte in-
formers more willingly now than in the
late years.
But suppose it should be granted,
though it catmot be certain, and has not
yetbeenahowd to be probaUa^ that the
clandestme tiade will be inttmpled; I
am not able to follow thc»e nMiisierisI
reasotiers immediately to die co)ltt^iien(%
which thcfy diuwfrom this cdttcesaion, and
14S9] onii^f^ntim^lUH^s
ivlucb mwt be dri^ from it, if i( be of
any upe in tbe decigion of tbf qu^pn,
HOT cafi see that tbe coo^umptiaA of npiri-
tua|i« liqupm will be made lets.
)let m enuaioef mj Jbrds, the premises
and ^e consequences to«;etbery without
suffisiing our atteptio^ to be led astray by
Dsdfiffs digressions. Spirits wiU pow be
aoU only wMh licence 1 therefore less wiH
be sold than when it was sold only by
$teaiUk 1 Sisrely, mj lords, such ailments
will opt much lafluence this House*
Why, my lords, should less be bought u<m
thao formerly ? It is not denied, that there
will be in evarv place « (icapsed shop,
whfBre drMnkiurgs majr riot i][i security;
and what can be more invi^ipg to wfetcliefi
who place m drankeaness -tb^ utmpsf fe-
licity? If you should foyourably suppose
no inore to be sold, yet wby should those
who now buy any si]q[^>oaed qmmtity, buy
less when the restraint is taklp away ?
If it be logedt that the present law does
in reality impose no restramt, the intended
act will make no ahieration- There is no
real nrohibitioii i^ow, theve will be no no-
minal prohibitioii hereafter } and therefore
the law will only produce what its advo*
catea es^pect from it, a yearly addition to
the i«efvenue of the gov^rn^aeiit. Bttt» npy
lords, let us at last enquire to what it is to
be i^ip^tadf that tbe piesent lai^awells
the aiAtnftenbpok to m^|p\irpose ? ap4 why
this pernicious jtEadfe is cpurriad on with
confidenpe and secHrity, in pppqsi^jpn to
the law? It firill not surely b^ copfigsped,
that tbe gojveFPmeat bw^ wanted authority
to execute its own laarp $ tW ^ leipsb^
Cure has beep awed by tbe POpiitlbloe, by
the dr^gs of the popubce, t&e ^^unkarda
and thebeigiMvl Yetwbeptheprovisionp
made for the executipn of 9 law so sali^tary ,
so just, ai\d so necepsary, were found de-
fectivey why wene opt olbeva subatitutcid
nf greater efficacy? Why, when o«ke in-
fermor w<|s torn in piftces, w^re there apt
new aeci^ritief ptn^osed to protect thoae
who shoqld by the same oiSanoe disease
Jiiepeopla afterwards.
Tqe lemt PJ loidfs, has ^ed pf a great
pwrt of its efect: but it hm bM by
cowardice op one pprt, and negligence 00
another: and though it^e dmty, as it was
laid, was in itself soiaawhat iuridiou^, it
woi4d bowaver heve been enforped, oould
Iha Tovea«ie Jtwre gajoed as m^oh by the
panisbmepntaawasgame^by the toferatioa
efdebavdievy.
^ It hes boit^er ieaoa effect: it PMiy be
imagined^ that no man can be tl1l0l€4»
where he is not known, and that some men
are known too well to be' trusiei ; and
therefore nmf vous^ b® pcpaalofially hin-
dered frpm drmking spirits, while the Uw
remains in its present state ; who, when
houses are set open by licence, wiU never
want an opportHpily of complying with
th^r ^petites, but v^ at any time enter
confidently, and call for poison, and mingl^
with pumerous assemques met only to
provoke each otber to iatompprance'ciy a
kind ci brptal emulation an4 obstreperous
merriment.
This Bil) therefore, my lords, is* as it
has been termed, onlv an experipient^
an es^perimpntj voy lords, ot a very
daripi^kind^ which none would hazard buj^
empjtnpf^ politicians, ft is an experimep^
tQ discover how Sir the vices of the popui-
lape m^y be ma4c useful to the govern-
ment, what taxes may b^ raised vp<^
poison, and how mufii tb|B coi^rt may hi^
enriched by the destruction of the sub*
jects.
The tendency of this Bill is 9q evideott
that tbose who ipppeared as its advoqtf^
have i^er endeavoured to 4^eat tbejr
opponents by charging their proppaw
with absurdity, thap by extenuating the
ill consequence pf their own scnemo*
Their princmal charge is, that those vb^
oppose tlie Bill recomipend 9 total prop
hibition oif all spirits. This at^rtion giv^
them ap opportunity of abandooipg th^
own cause, to expatMUe upon the inpocogi^
usesof spirits* of thehr efficacy in medicjac;,
and their popvenience in domesticbusineai^
and to advsipce a pailtitude of position^
which they know arjU not be denied, but
whidi piay be 91 once made useless t9
them ; by assuring them, that no man de-
sires to destroy the distillery for the pleaf>
sure of destroying it, or intends anv thing
mora than some provisions whicli may
hiad(er distilled spirits from being drnnjc by
con^Q^bn people upon common occasions.
HaviRg thus obviated the only answer
that bas hitherto been made to the strong
argupif nts which have been ofiered wwst
tbe Bill, I must declare, that I have heard
ootbipg elsa that deserves an answer, or
that can possibly make any impression h^
&vottr ar the Bill ; ^ Bill, my lords, teem«-
ipg with sadU^n and idlsness, disea%ea
and robberies; a Bill that will eofeebla
tbe bod^> corrupt the mipd» and turn thp
cities ofthis populous kingdom into prisopa
lor villains^ or nospitals for cripples; and
wbjpb I^ think il (bera&re our duty to z^
jpct*
1431]
16 GfeORGS IL
Lofd LofMcUr .*
Bfy lords; the Bill, on which we
ire now nnaDy to determme, is of such a
tendency that it cannot be made a law.
Without an open and Avowed disregard of
all the rules which It has been hitherto
thought the general interest of human na-
ture to preserve inviolable. It is opposite
at once to the precepts of Ae wise, and
the practice or the good, to the orij^nal
principles of virtue, and the estabhshed
maxims of policy. I shall, however, only
consider it with relation to policy, because
the other considerations will naturally
coincide ; for policy ii( only the connexion
of prudence with goodness, and directs only
what virtue each particular occurrence re-
quires to be immediately practised. The
nrst principle of policy, my lords, teaches
us, that the power and greatness of a state
arises from tne number of its people ; un-
inhabited dominions are an empty show,
and serve only to encumber die nation to
which they belong; they are a kind of
pompous ornaments, which must be thrown
away in time of danger, and equally unfit
for resistance and retreat.
In the present war, my lords, if the
number or our people Were equal to that
tif the two nations against which we are
engaged, the narrowness of our dominions
would give us a resistless superiority ; as
we have fewer posts to defend, we mieht
send more forces to attack our enemies,
who must be weak in every part, because
they must be dispersed to a verv great
extent. The torrent of war, as a nood of
water, is only violent while it is confined,
but loses its force as it is more diffused*
In consequence of this maxim, ray lords,
it is proposed^ that because we are at war
against two mighty powers, we shall en-
deavour to destrov by spirits at home
those who cannot rail by tne sword^of the
enemy, and that we endeavour to hinder
the production of another generation ; for
it is well known, my lords, and has in this
debate been univenally allowed, that the
phcsent practice of drinking spirits will not
only destroy the present race, out debSjtate
the next. This surely, my lords, is a time
at which we ought very studiously to watch
over the preservation of those hves which
we are not compelled to expose, and endea-
vour to retrieve the losses of war by encou-
raging industry, temperance, and sobriety.
Another prmciple of government which
^tiie wisdom of our progenitors established,
was to suppress vice with the utmost di*
DebaieimiheLorA [lOI
li^nce; for as vice must ahrijs piMiioe
misery to those whom it infects, ud daa*
ger to tiiose who are considered 88 its ene-
mies, it is contrary to the end of govern-
ment ; and the government whidt eneoii-
rages vice is necessarily laboming for its
own destruction; for the good will not
support it, because they are not betiffited
by it, and the wicked wfll betn^ it, be-
cause they are wicked.
How little th^, my lords, do oar saga-
cious politicians understand thar own
interest by promoting drankenneas and
luxury, of which the natural train c/f corner
quences are idleness, necessitv, wicked-
ness, desDeratton, sedition, and anarcfay !
How little do they understand wiiat it is
that gives stability to the fiteic of mir
constitution, if they imagine it can Jong
stand, when it is not supported by virtue.
In consequence of theae maxims, ano-
ther may be advanced, that all trades
which tend to impair eiUier the health or
virtue of die people, should be int^dicted;
for since the strength of Che frommasitj
consists in the number and the hiqypiiies
of the people, no trade deserves to be
cultivated which does not contribute to tbs
one or the other ; for the end of trade, as
of all other human attempts, is the attain-
ment of happiness.
If any trade that condaces not to die
happiness of the community by increasii^
eitner the number or the virtue oftiie peo-
ple, be industriously cultivated, the legis-
lature ought to suppress it; if any manu-
facture uiat admmisters temptations to
wickedness be flourishing and extenave,
it has already been too long indulged ; and
the government can atone for its lemis-
ness only by rigorous mhSiition, severe
prosecutions, and vigflant enquiries.
That the trade of distOling;, my kirds,
had advanced so fast among us, unt oar
mannlacturers of poison are arrived at the
utmost degree of skill in their profoasioD,
and that the draughts which they prepare
are greedily swallowed by those who rardy
look beyond the present moment, or en*-
quire what price must be paid for die
present eratilication ; that theaeople faave
been so long accustomed to dauy stupefoo-
tion, that they are become matinous if
they are restrained irom it; and that the
law which was mtended to suppress thor
luxury cannot, without tumults and bkxid-
shed, be put in execution; are, in myopi-
nion,very affi3Ctingconsideratldna,buttbef
can surefjr be of no use for the defence of
this BilL
4S53
en thi S^rirUmm Lifuort BSl.
A. D. 1743.
[1434
The more extentive the trade of distfll-
ngy the more must twadlow the poiaon
nrhi<A it affords; the more palatdue the
liquor is made> the more dei^rous is Uie
temptation ; and the more corrupt tike peo-
ple are become, the more urgent is the
neceastty of extirpating those that have cor-
rupted them.
1 am not, my lords, less convinced of the
importance of trade, than those lords who
have spoken in the most pathetic language
for the continuance of the manufacture;
but my regard for trade naturally deter-
mines me to vote against a Bill by which
idleness, the pest of commerce, must be
encouraged, and those hands, by which
our trade is to be carried on, must be
first enfeebled and soon afterwards des-
troyed.
Nor is this kind of debauchery, my lords,
lessdestructiveto the interest ofthose whose
riches consist in lands, than of those who
are enffaced in commierce ; for it undoubt-
edly hinderB the consumption of almost
everj thifiK' that land can produce ; of
that com which should be maoe into bread,
and brewed into more wholesome drink ;
of that fLe^ which is fed for the market,
and even of that wool which should be
worked into cloth. It has been often
mentioned ludicrously, but witli too much
trath, that strong liquors are to the meaner
people, meat, drink, and clothes; that they
depend upon them alone for sustenance
and warmth, and that they desire to forget
their wants in drunkenness rather than
supply them. If we therefore examine
this question with regard to trade, we shall
find, that the money which is spent in
drunkenness for the advantage only of one
distiller, would support, if otherwise ex-
pended, a great nun^r of labourers, bus-
[Mindmen, and traders ; since one man em-
ployed at the still may supply with the
means of debauchery such numbers, as
could not be furnished with innocent
victuals and warm clothes, but by the in-
dustry of many hands, Mid the concur-
rence of many trades. Numbers, my
lords, are necessary to success In com-
merce as in war ; if the manufacturers be
few, labour will be dear, and the value of
the commodity must always be propor-
tioned to the price of labour.
These, my lords, are the ai^uments by
which 1 have hitherto been incited to op-
pose this Bill, which I have not found that
any of its ddenders can ehide or repel ;
for they content themselves with acowardly
•concevrioa to. the multitude, allow them
to proceed in wickedness, conftss ihey have
found themselves unable to oppose their'
sovereign pleasure, or to withheld them
from pursumg their own inclinations ; and
therefore have sagaciously cctntrived a
scheme, by which the^ hope to gain some
advantage from the vices which they caa*
not reform. But who, my lords, can, with*
out horror and indignation, hear those
who are entrusted with the care of the
public, contriving to take advantage of
the ruin of their country ? Let others,
my lords, vote as their consciences will
direct them, I shall likewise follow the
dictates of my heart, and shall avoid any
concurrence with a scheme, which thoogn
it may for a time benefit the government,
must destroy the strength and virtue of
the people, - and at once impair our trade
and depopulate our country. t
Lord Carteret :
My lords ; the warmth with which
this debate has been hitherto carried on,
and with which the progress of diis Bill
has been opposed, is, m my opinion, to be
imputed to strong prejudices, formed when
the question was first proposed ; by which
the noble lords have been incited to warm
declamations and .violent invectives ; who
having once heated their minds with sus-
picions, have not been able to consider
the propositions before them with calm-
ness and impartiality; but have pursued
their first notions, and have employed
their eloquence, in displaying the absur-
dity of positions never adtvanced, and the
mischief of consequences which will never
beproduced.
It is first to be conudered, my lords,
that this Bill is intended, not to promote,
but to hinder, the consumption of spi-
rituous liquors ; it is therefore by no means
necessary to expatiate upon that which is
presupposed in the Bill, the pernicious
quality of spirits, the detestable nature of
drunkenness, the wickedness or miseries
whidi are produced by it. Almost all that
has been ui^ged by the noble lords who
have spoken with the greatest warmth
against the Bill, may reasonably be con-
ceived to have been advanced for it by
those who projected it ; of whom it may
be justly imagmed, that they were fully
convinced how much spirits were abused
by the common people, and how much
that abuse contributed to the wickedness
which at present prevails amongst us, since
they thought it necessary to prevent them
by a new Taw.
USS]
16 QB0S6E IL
&uipiinrMk«li«iitliey«itvw MmKImi
dNiae ^ mliUed laqiNMrs vM ia # ¥cry bi|^
4i||ree dHriiiMnlal to tho pdUic, th«y mw
BlwwiMptlMl tbe tmk «r Aistillii^ wm ef
EQBi ««; thut it empUyod gr^etX oiiai*
rt of our poople, tno conaumed o«rt«|
portoftbepiMucoofoarkiidf ; anathM
tborofm it could not he aupproiiodt wiib*
wt injuring the publio» by roduotm mtPjr
tjmiliot to inddea poToi^, and by 4or
privioff tbofivmon Masmriti for a |fraat
paii d tiieir corn. In tbo plaini of tbt
iroitam part of thii island* tbo gimin tbat
ii chiely cultivated is barley, and tbat
baciejr is chiefly oenffuned by the distil*
lers ; nor, if they should be at onee snqp^
preand, could the husbandman readily sell
Ae Dreduce of his labour and bisgcound^
or toe landlord receive rent from his es**
tate ; since it would then produce aotbis^
or, what is in effect the same, nothing that
could be sold.
It is indeed possible, my lords, that the
Dutch taifiht buy it; but thenit nust be
coasideroa, that we nuut pay them money
far the favoiur, since we aUow a pfemium
apoB ex|^iiation, and that we shall buy it
back ^;ain inspintSt and consequently pay
aimn m mamifacturing our own product
For it is nqt to be imagined, that any law
vill jmmediatrly redatm the dispositions,
or vefiMms the appetites, of the people.
They are well known to have drank spirits
be&re they were made in our countiy , and
lo indulge diemsdres at present in many
lands ofluxury which are yet loaded with a
very high tax. It is not therefore probable,
that upon tiie imposition of a bkb duty thejr
wfll immediately desist from minking ^-
rits; they will indeed, as now, drink those
whidi can be most easily procured; and
i^ by a hi^ tax suddenly imposed, Ibroigo
apints be made cheaper than our own, m-
veign spirits will only be used, our d»tfl-
lery will be destroyed, and our people will
yet not be informed.
That heavy taxes will not deter the peo-
ple from any favourite enjoyment, has
been aloeadv shown by the unsuccessful-
nam of the last attempt to restrain them
from the use of spirits, and may be every
day discovered from the use of tobacco,
srluch is universally taken by the common
people, though a very high duty is laid
upon it, and Uiough a lung * thought it so
pernicious that he employ^ his pen against
U. The Commons thernbre prudently for-
* Kim; James the 1st wrote a piece, entitled
» A Count»r-biast against Tobaooo.'*
bora to us^vioieiil^ iqihwishj wfcjdi m^
diagust tbo people but whicb tbej bad v
leasoa to believe sufficient toeafiinn thess
and thought it more o^LpedieDt t9 prooaei
by moi9 fOBtle methods, which mgbt ope-
rate by m^paroeptible degresa, aod whidi
naight be made more fiMcmlesad oooyiil-
sive, if they should be found inrflfsmj
Another evil will by tbis Biediod fte-
iriae be^avoided, which is the oortain eon-
aa^ucmeofbii^dutioa; tlmtaawaipR^
duce no clandestine fitauds om vebdbooi
defiance of the lyslatur^ tb^ diataco
will not be tomptod to evade tbia ka^cA
by perjuriea^ too oAea practised whcss the
profit of thorn is great, hoc smugflefa te
aaBtroble in numerous troops wioiams ia
their bands, and carry impoHod h^aen
through the country by force, in cppoadaa
to the oflioem of tlm custoBas,aaotbekvt
oftbonatioo. That this likowiao is pmiv
tised upon other occasions to esomebaasj
taiios, all the woeU^ papwa lafiina as;
nor are there mmj months ia which assK
of the kbig's officers fure not amimsi or
murdered doiitt of their duly.
All those evus, mv lords, imdathoawd
others, will be avowed by an eai^ lax; is
&vour of which I cannot bat oroodcr list
it should be necessary to plead so lasf,
sinoe oviei^ nation, wiueh has a»y pwtw
sion to oivility or a n^ular gofPonuBse^
wjU agree, that heavy mipoBta are nst ta
be vaomaly inflicted* end that aeveri^ k
never to bo pmctiaed tiU leai^ has tmi
It therefore appaam lo ase, my lords, da^
joatioe, roasoo, and oKperieaoe, uaits ia
lavAiar of this Bill; and tbatnotibii^iBU)
be feaaed from it, but tkit it wiU not be
aulBcienriy ooerciae, porresfraiotiicato
of apints so much as is hoped by tboaethit
home stood up in its vindication-
Lord Lonsdale :
My lordst the aignmmM af tk
noble lord have by no meajss infli«aoBd
aae to alter my opinion ; nor do I aovnie
up to pronooswie » recantatiop of aay tf
7 former easertions, but to -oxplaia ine
them which Ae noble lord has bea
pleased to controvert. Ho obaenrei>a
opposition to my ailment, that thediad*
leiy contributes to the conaumptiooof tke
produce of our gronnds, and by coon-
quenoe to the advantage of those w1m|k»*
aess them; but I, my lordiw mn indioedfio
believe that it produces a contrmy ebd,
and that it binders tba conaomptioo,ef0^
of that gmm which is oBsplofod in i
We mayioaaonaMyauppeaei nvloAr
m
on inB Spii uuotti Lifudi^$ JSiffv
A. D. 1?48.
C14»
hit the^ wtK> ttow Mnk dilltiHied liqnan^
Kouldy if ihcy W6ir6 ddMiTTed froni tlMtiiy
tfdeftvoar to obtain fl-om ale and heer the
ime rttiovathm of their yigouf, <md re]ax«*
Ifcm of Ui^ caret; and that tlkerrfore
lore ale would be brewed, as tiiere would
emoreporchaaen: if therefore the same
jtiantitv of malt, which is atdBdent, when
iitiltod, to produce intoxicatioo, would,
rhen brewed into ale, have Che attne ef-
N!t, Ae coknumption would stift be the
UBe, iHiether ale or spirits were in use;
nt ft is certain, that the fourth pktt of nie
irit which is necessary to ftnmish iJe for
iebauch, will, irlMtt exdted in the still,
e suflicient to satisfy the most greedy
nmkard ; aiid it is tiierefore erident, that
a who drinks tfe, consumes more barley
y ihree parts in four than he who indcd^s
m ^ise of spirits, supposing them both
tfotUf cmniDd in the excess of their en^
TTie noble lord nas taken occasion to
Mtftion tobacco, as an instance of tiie ob-
iiacy with which the people perserere in
practice to which they are addicted. Of
leobeCmacy of the people, my lords, I am
ificiently conyboed f out hope that it will
Bver be able to overpower the legislature,
ho ought to enforce their laws, and in*
jgorate their efforts, in proportion to the
lodoosneas of the corruption whidi they
le endeavouring to extirpate: nor dot
link so meanly of government, as to be^
m it unable to repress drunkenness or
Kury, or in danger of being subverted in
eontest about spirits or totacco.
Tobacco, indeed, has not properly beien
"oduced as an instance; fbr I never
iard, that however it may be disapproved
f particular men, of whatever rank or
lihties, it was prohibited by law ; nor
ould 1 think any such prohibition neces-
ly or reasonable: for tobacco, my lords,
not noison, like distifledtpiritB, nor is the
e or it so mucl) injurious to heahh, as
knsive to delicacy.
Hie poisonous and destructive quality of
sse liquors is confessed hy the noble
td, a confession with which I find it very
ficult to reconcfle his soHcitode for the
itiller^; for when it, is once granted,
at upuitB corrupt the mind, weaken the
obs, impair virtue, and shorten life, any
guments in favour of those who tnauu-
dure them come too late, since no ad-
atage can be equivalent to the loss of
Mies^ and life. When the nebte loid
IS urged that the distillei^ em|doys great
unbers of handsp ind^httBateeMght to
t naeomng&i^ may H not, upon his owft
ncession, be replied, that i '
bei
conceasionrbe replfed, that those aun^eia
are employed in murder, and that their
tfade oaght, like Aat of odtel* murderers,
t» be 8top|»0d^ When he urges that muck
of our grain is consumed in the stiH, may
we not answer, and answer irMsistiMy,
diat ft is oonsmed by being turned into
poison, inatiMd of bread f And can a
stronger arguaKnt be imagined fbr the
suppression of ihis detestable basinessy
dMm that it emplays muhicodes, and thai
it is galnfiil and extensive?
Nothing, my lords, is more toparsott
tl|0n that the real design of this KU, how-
ever its defbndef« may endeavour to con^
ceal it in the mist of sophistry, is to lay
<Ndy sudh a tax as may increase the reve-
Aue ; ihid Itet tliey have no desire of sup^
pressing that vice which may be made
uaefiil to tbetr privttte purpose, nor feel
any regret to fin the exchequer by the
slaughter of the people^
Lord Ai^lcf/brd :
My lords ; the ndble lord who
spoke last in deftetoce at this new sobene,
appears to have imbibed very strong ore-
judices in &vour of the distillery, nroa
which he finds it practicable to draw large
sums, for the support of the measures
which have been already formed, imd
which he therefore considers as tlie most
important and beneficial trade of Uie Bri^
ttsh nation^^^It is not improbaible, my
lords, that in a short time all the provisions
which have been made by die wisdom of
our ancestors for the support of the woollen
manufkcture, will be transferred for the
encouragement of the distillery, which ap-
pears to be at present the reigning fa-
vourite ; for it is evident that both manu*
fhctures cannot Subsist together, and that
either must be continued by the ruin of
^he other.-«JOf these rivals, #hich is
doomed to fall, we may conjecture from
the encomium just now bestowed upon the
prudence of the Commons, by whom the
darling distillery has been so tenderly
treated ; yet that the trade, in which the
bounty of nature has enabled us to eacA
all other nations of the world, may not; be
su£^red to perish in silence, I will tidce tlik
opportunity to declare, that this boasted
prudenoe can, in my opinion, produce no
other effects than poverty and ruin, pri*
vate calamities ana general wickedness;
'diat by encouraging drunkenness at the
expeAc^ Of trade, it will stop all the cur-
rents \ij wUch the^gold of foreign nations
1430J 16 GEORfiB IL DO^te on ike S/iMtacm Lifuors BOL [lU
liM flowed upon ui, and expoie tti to con-
quetty and to BlaYery.
The qucalkm being then put. That the
Bill do Dttif, it was HMolved m Uie aflbrma*
tive :— Contont 59, Proxies 2S» Total 82 ;
Mot Content 38, Proxies 17, Total 55«—
The foUowing lords enteted their dissent,
▼is. the archbishop of Canterbury, Dr.
Potter; the bishi^ of St. A8q>n, Dr.
Madox ; bishop of London, Dr. Gibson ;
bishop of Chichester, Dr. Mawson ; bishop
of Norwich, Dr. Gooch ; bishop oif Glou-
cester, Dr. Benson ; bishop of Oxfcnrd,
Dr. Seeker ; bishop of Exeter, Dr. Claget;
bishop of Bristol, Dr. Buder ; bishop of
Salisbury, Dr. Sherlock; also by the lords
Romney, Stanhope and Ayleisford, the
duke o^ Beaufort, and lord Gower, C. P. S.
PnxUa affM9\a pamngtke SfMtuonu
Liquors BiU.'], And a Protest was en-
tered with the following Reasons:
1. «« Because the act of the 9th of his
present majesty, * To prevent the^exces-
'five drinking of Spirituous Liauors,'
which is by tBs Bill to be repealed, de-
clares, * Tnat the drinking or spirituous
liquors or strong waters, is become very
common, especially amonsst the people of
lower or inferior rank, the constant and
excessive use whereof tends greatly to the
destruction of their healtb, rendering
them unfit for useful labour and business,
debauching their morals, and inciting them
to perpetrate all manner of vices ; and the
ill consequences of the excessive use of
such liquors, are not confined to the pre-
sent generation, but extend to fiiture ages,
and tend to the devastation and ruin of
this kingdom.* We therefore apprehend,
that if an act designed to remedy such iu-
disputable mischiefs was not found ade^
quate to its salutary intention, tlie wisdom
of the legislature ought to have examined
its impenections and supplied its defects,
and not have rescinded it by a law autho-
riaing tlie manifold calamities it was cal-
culated to prevent.
2. << Because the refusing to admit the
most eminent physicians to give their opi-
nions of the fatel consequences of these
poisonous liquors, may be construed with-
out daon aa a resolution of thin Hooe v
soilness all authentic informaticMi of it
pemiciouB effects of the health and mx^
of mankind, whidi will neceasarily io%
from the unrestrained licentiouaness per
mitted by this Bill.
S. ** Because as it is the inheiBnt dut
of every legislatore to be watchiul in pro
tecting the lives, and preserving the moral
of the people, so the availing itsdf of the
vices, oebaucheries and conse(|uential mi
series, to the destruction of millions ^*
manifest inversion of the fundamental priii
ciples of national polity, and cootrarien
to those social emoluments by which go
vemment alone is instituted.
4. ^ Because the opulence and powe
of a nation depend u^n the numben
vigour, and industry of its people ; and h
liberty and happiness on their tempennn
and morality ; to all which this BiU tfaieai^
&IM destruction, by authorising SOjXX
houses, the number admitted in the debate,
to retail a poison, which, by uniTenal expe
rience, is known to dd^iutate the stroi^
and destroy the weak ; to extinguish k
dustry, and to inflame those intoxicatd
by its malignant efficacv, to perpetrate tk
most heinous crimes : for, what confusii^
aud calamities may not be expected, whei
near a twentieth part of the houses in thi
kingdom shall be converted into semins
ries of drunkenness and profligacy, autbo
rised and protected by the I^islsdr^
power ? And as we conceive the contriba
tions to be paid by these in&mous recesses,
and the money to be raised by this de-
structive project, are considerations b^hi v
unworthy the attention of parliament, whea
compared with die extensive evik frao]
thence arising ; so are we of opinion, thai
if the real exigencies of the {»ublic requimi
raising the immense sums this year granted,
they could by no means palliate the hiring
recourse to a supply founded on the in>
dulgence of debauchery, the em^oursge-
ment of crimes, and the destruction of the
human race. (Signed) Sand»-kh,
Chesterfield, Talbot, Haversham,
Dunk Hali&x, Bristol, Ailesbun.
For the above Reasons excej>tir«
the second. Bedford, Oxford aoa
Mortimer, Ward."
END OF VOL. XII.
Primed by T. C. HaoMrd. Peterfaorough-Coart,
Fleet-Street, London.
no 7
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