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University  of  California  •  Berkeley 


Regional  Oral  History  Office  University  of  California 

The  Bancroft  Library  Berkeley,  California 


The  Wine  Spectator  California  Winemen  Oral  History  Series 


Zelma  R.  Long 

THE  PAST  IS  THE  BEGINNING  OF  THE  FUTURE: 
SIMI  WINERY  IN  ITS  SECOND  CENTURY 


With  an  Introduction  by 
Dr.  Ann  Noble 


Interviews  Conducted  by 

Carole  Hicke 
in  1991  and  1992 


Copyright  c  1992  by  The  Regents  of  the  University  of  California 


Since  1954  the  Regional  Oral  History  Office  has  been  interviewing  leading 
participants  in  or  well-placed  witnesses  to  major  events  in  the  development  of 
Northern  California,  the  West,  and  the  Nation.  Oral  history  is  a  modern  research 
technique  involving  an  interviewee  and  an  informed  interviewer  in  spontaneous 
conversation.  The  taped  record  is  transcribed,  lightly  edited  for  continuity 
and  clarity,  and  reviewed  by  the  interviewee.  The  resulting  manuscript  is  typed 
in  final  form,  indexed,  bound  with  photographs  and  illustrative  materials,  and 
placed  in  The  Bancroft  Library  at  the  University  of  California,  Berkeley,  and 
other  research  collections  for  scholarly  use.  Because  it  is  primary  material, 
oral  history  is  not  intended  to  present  the  final,  verified,  or  complete 
narrative  of  events.  It  is  a  spoken  account,  offered  by  the  interviewee  in 
response  to  questioning,  and  as  such  it  is  reflective,  partisan,  deeply  involved, 
and  irreplaceable . 

************************************ 


All  uses  of  this  manuscript  are  covered  by  a  legal  agreement 
between  The  Regents  of  the  University  of  California  and  Zelma  R. 
Long  dated  September  23,  1991.  The  manuscript  is  thereby  made 
available  for  research  purposes.  All  literary  rights  in  the 
manuscript,  including  the  right  to  publish,  are  reserved  to  The 
Bancroft  Library  of  the  University  of  California,  Berkeley.  No  part 
of  the  manuscript  may  be  quoted  for  publication  without  the  written 
permission  of  the  Director  of  The  Bancroft  Library  of  the  University 
of  California,  Berkeley. 

Requests  for  permission  to  quote  for  publication  should  be 
addressed  to  the  Regional  Oral  History  Office,  486  Library, 
University  of  California,  Berkeley  94720,  and  should  include 
identification  of  the  specific  passages  to  be  quoted,  anticipated 
use  of  the  passages,  and  identification  of  the  user.  The  legal 
agreement  with  Zelma  R.  Long  requires  that  she  be  notified  of  the 
request  and  allowed  thirty  days  in  which  to  respond. 

It  is  recommended  that  this  oral  history  be  cited  as  follows: 


Zelma  R.  Long,  "The  Past  is  the  Beginning 
of  the  Future:  Simi  Winery  in  its  Second 
Century,"  an  oral  history  conducted  in 
1991  and  1992  by  Carole  Hicke,  Regional 
Oral  History  Office,  The  Bancroft  Library, 
University  of  California,  Berkeley,  1992. 


Copy  no . 


Zelma  Long,  1991. 


Photograph  by  David  Buchholz 


Cataloging  Information 

LONG,  Zelma  R.  (b.  1943)  Winemaker,  winery  executive 

The  Past  is  the  Beginning  of  the  Future:   Simi  Winery  in  its  Second 
Century .  1992,  ix,  103  pp. 

Development  of  the  winery  under  Long's  direction,  1979  to  present; 
evolution  of  California  wine  industry,  1970s -1990s;  Robert  Mondavi  Winery, 
1970s;  research  methods  at  Simi. 

Introduction  by  Dr.  Ann  Noble,  Professor,  Department  of  Viticulture  and 
Enology,  University  of  California,  Davis. 

Interviewed  in  1991  and  1992  by  Carole  Hicke  for  the  Wine  Spectator 
California  Winemen  Oral  History  Series,  The  Regional  Oral  History  Office, 
The  Bancroft  Library,  University  of  California,  Berkeley. 


TABLE  OF  CONTENTS --Zelma  Long 

PREFACE  i 

INTRODUCTION --by  Dr.  Ann  Noble  vi 

INTERVIEW  HISTORY  viii 

BIOGRAPHICAL  INFORMATION  lx 


I   BACKGROUND  AND  EARLY  YEARS  1 

Family  and  Childhood  1 
General  Education 

Winemaking  Studies  3 

II  WINEMAKING  AT  ROBERT  MONDAVI  WINERY:   1970-1979  6 

Joining  the  Winery  6 
Early  Responsibilities 

Change  and  Innovation  8 

How  Winemaking  Evolved  In  the  1970s,  1980s,  and  1990s  11 

Experimentation  in  the  1970s  13 

Becoming  Head  Enologist:   1972  16 
Centrifuging 

Cooperage  20 

Vineyards  and  Grapes  23 

Winemaking  Decisions  25 

III  MOVING  TO  SIMI  29 

Deciding  to  Join  Simi  29 

Simi  Winery  in  1979  31 

IV  GROWTH  AND  DEVELOPMENT  OF  THE  WINERY  32 
Equipment 

People  36 
The  Must  Chiller 

Winemaking  ^3 

Viticulture  45 

Viticulture:   The  Vineyards  52 

Management  59 

Developing  an  International  Business  64 

V  CHANGES  AND  CONCERNS  OF  THE  WINE  INDUSTRY  66 

Linkage  Between  Viticulture  and  Winemaking  66 
The  Concept  of  Terroir 
The  American  Appellation  System 


Evolution  of  the  Use  of  Wine  Varieties  76 

Phylloxera  78 
The  Leading  Role  of  California  in  the  Worldwide  Wine  Industry    81 

VI   PROFESSIONAL  AND  COMMUNITY  ACTIVITIES  86 

TAPE  GUIDE  92 

APPENDICES  93 

A.  Resum6  and  list  of  publication  94 

B.  "History  of  Simi  Winery,"  1984  99 

INDEX  101 


PREFACE 


The  California  wine  industry  oral  history  series,  a  project  of  the 
Regional  Oral  History  Office,  was  initiated  in  1969  through  the  action 
and  with  the  financing  of  the  Wine  Advisory  Board,  a  state  marketing 
order  organization  which  ceased  operation  in  1975.   In  1983  it  was 
reinstituted  as  The  Wine  Spectator  California  Winemen  Oral  History  Series 
with  donations  from  The  Wine  Spectator  Scholarship  Foundation.   The 
selection  of  those  to  be  interviewed  is  made  by  a  committee  consisting  of 
the  director  of  The  Bancroft  Library,  University  of  California,  Berkeley; 
John  A.  De  Luca,  president  of  the  Wine  Institute,  the  statewide  winery 
organization;  Maynard  A.  Amerine,  Emeritus  Professor  of  Viticulture  and 
Enology,  University  of  California,  Davis;  the  current  chairman  of  the 
board  of  directors  of  the  Wine  Institute;  Ruth  Teiser,  series  project 
director;  and  Marvin  R.  Shanken,  trustee  of  The  Wine  Spectator 
Scholarship  Foundation. 

The  purpose  of  the  series  is  to  record  and  preserve  information  on 
California  grape  growing  and  winemaking  that  has  existed  only  in  the 
memories  of  wine  men.   In  some  cases  their  recollections  go  back  to  the 
early  years  of  this  century,  before  Prohibition.   These  recollections  are 
of  particular  value  because  the  Prohibition  period  saw  the  disruption  of 
not  only  the  industry  itself  but  also  the  orderly  recording  and 
preservation  of  records  of  its  activities.   Little  has  been  written  about 
the  industry  from  late  in  the  last  century  until  Repeal.   There  is  a  real 
paucity  of  information  on  the  Prohibition  years  (1920-1933),  although 
some  commercial  winemaking  did  continue  under  supervision  of  the 
Prohibition  Department.   The  material  in  this  series  on  that  period,  as 
well  as  the  discussion  of  the  remarkable  development  of  the  wine  industry 
in  subsequent  years  (as  yet  treated  analytically  in  few  writings)  will  be 
of  aid  to  historians.   Of  particular  value  is  the  fact  that  frequently 
several  individuals  have  discussed  the  same  subjects  and  events  or 
expressed  opinions  on  the  same  ideas,  each  from  his  own  point  of  view. 

Research  underlying  the  interviews  has  been  conducted  principally  in 
the  University  libraries  at  Berkeley  and  Davis,  the  California  State 
Library,  and  in  the  library  of  the  Wine  Institute,  which  has  made  its 
collection  of  in  many  cases  unique  materials  readily  available  for  the 
purpose . 


ii 


The  Regional  Oral  History  Office  was  established  to  tape  record 
autobiographical  interviews  with  persons  who  have  contributed 
significantly  to  recent  California  history.   The  office  is  headed  by 
Willa  K.  Baum  and  is  under  the  administrative  supervision  of  The  Bancroft 
Library. 


Ruth  Teiser 
Project  Director 

The  Wine  Spectator  California  Winemen 
Oral  History  Series 

July  1992 

Regional  Oral  History  Office 
486  The  Bancroft  Library 
University  of  California,  Berkeley 


iii 


CALIFORNIA  WINE  INDUSTRY  INTERVIEWS 
Interviews  Completed  July  1992 

Leon  D.  Adams,  Revitalizing  the  California  Wine  Industry.  1974 

Leon  D.  Adams,  California  Wine  Industry  Affairs:   Recollections  and  Opinions. 
1990 

Maynard  A.  Amerine ,  The  University  of  California  and  the  State's  Wine 
Industry.  1971 

Maynard  A.  Amerine,  Wine  Bibliographies  and  Taste  Perception  Studies. 
1988 

Philo  Biane,  Wine  Making  in  Southern  California  and  Recollections  of  Fruit 
Industries .  Inc . .  1972 

John  B.  Cella,  The  Cella  Family  in  the  California  Wine  Industry.  1986 

Charles  Crawford,  Recollections  of  a  Career  with  the  Gallo  Winery  and  the 
Development  of  the  California  Wine  Industry.  1942-1989.  1990 

Burke  H.  Critchfield,  Carl  F.  Wente ,  and  Andrew  G.  Frericks ,  The  California 

Wine  Industry  During  the  Depression.  1972 

William  V.  Cruess ,  A  Half  Century  of  Food  and  Wine  Technology.  1967 

Jack  and  Jamie  Peterman  Davies,  Rebuilding  Schramsberg:   The  Creation  of  a 
California  Champagne  House.  1990 

William  A.  Dieppe,  Almaden  is  My  Life.  1985 

Making  California  Port  Wine:  Ficklin  Vineyards  from  1948  to  1992.  interviews 
with  David,  Jean,  Peter,  and  Steven  Ficklin,  1992 

Alfred  Fromm,  Marketing  California  Wine  and  Brandy.  1984 

Louis  Gomberg,  Analytical  Perspectives  on  the  California  Wine  Industry.  1935- 
1990.  1990 

Miljenko  Grgich,  A  Croatian- American  Winemaker  in  the  Napa  Valley.  1992 
Joseph  E.  Heitz,  Creating  a  Winery  in  the  Napa  Valley.  1986 

Maynard  A.  Joslyn,  A  Technologist  Views  the  California  Wine  Industry. 
1974 

Amandus  N.  Kasimatis,  A  Career  in  California  Viticulture.  1988 

Morris  Katz,  Paul  Masson  Winery  Operations  and  Management.  1944-1988.  1990 

Legh  F.  Knowles,  Jr.,  Beaulieu  Vineyards  from  Family  to  Corporate  Ownership. 
1990 


iv 


Horace  0.  Lanza  and  Harry  Baccigaluppi ,  California  Grape  Products  and  Other 
Wine  Enterprises.  1971 

Zelma  R.  Long,  The  Past  is  the  Beginning  of  the  Future:  Simi  Winery  in  its 
Second  Century.  1992 

Richard  Maher,  California  Winery  ManaEement  and  Marketing.  1992 

Louis  M.  Martini  and  Louis  P.  Martini,  Wine  Making  in  the  Napa  Valley. 
1973 

Louis  P.  Martini,  A  Family  Winery  and  the  California  Wine  Industry.  1984 

Eleanor  McCrea,  Stony  Hill  Vineyards:   The  Creation  of  a  Napa  Valley  Estate 
Winery.  1990 

Otto  E.  Meyer,  California  Premium  Wines  and  Brandy.  1973 

Norbert  C.  Mirassou  and  Edmund  A.  Mirassou,  The  Evolution  of  a  Santa  Clara 
Vallev  Winery.  1986 

Peter  Mondavi,  Advances  in  Technology  and  Production  at  Charles  Krug  Winery. 
1946-1988.  1990 

Robert  Mondavi,  Creativity  in  the  Wine  Industry.  1985 

Michael  Moone ,  Management  and  Marketing  at  Beringer  Vineyards  and  Wine  World. 
Inc. .  1990 

Myron  S.  Nightingale,  Making  Wine  in  California.  1944-1987.  1988 
Harold  P.  Olmo,  Plant  Genetics  and  New  Grape  Varieties.  1976 

Cornelius  Ough,  Researches  of  an  Enologist.  University  of  California.  Davis. 
1950-1990.  1990 

John  A.  Parducci,  Six  Decades  of  Making  Wine  in  Mendocino  County.  California. 
1992 

Antonio  Perelli-Minetti ,  A  Life  in  Wine  Making.  1975 

Louis  A.  Petri,  The  Petri  Family  in  the  Wine  Industry.  1971 

Jefferson  E.  Peyser,  The  Law  and  the  California  Wine  Industry.  1974 

Lucius  Powers,  The  Fresno  Area  and  the  California  Wine  Industry.  1974 

Victor  Repetto  and  Sydney  J.  Block,  Perspectives  on  California  Wines.  1976 

Edmund  A.  Rossi,  Italian  Swiss  Colony  and  the  Wine  Industry.  1971 

Edmund  A.  Rossi,  Jr.,  Italian  Swiss  Colony.  1949-1989:   Recollections  of  a 
Third-Generation  California  Winemaker.  1990 


Arpaxat  Setrakian,  A.  Setrakian.  a  Leader  of  the  San  Joaauin  Valley  Grape 
Industry.  1977 

Elie  Skofis,  California  Wine  and  Brandy  Maker.  1988 

Andre  Tchelistcheff ,  Grapes.  Wine,  and  Ecology.  1983 

Brother  Timothy,  The  Christian  Brothers  as  Wine  Makers.  1974 

Louis  (Bob)  Trinchero,  California  Zinfandels.  a  Success  Story.  1992 

The  Wente  Family  and  the  California  Wine  Industry,  interviews  with  Jean, 
Carolyn,  Philip,  and  Eric  Wente,  1992. 

Ernest  A.  Wente,  Wine  Making  in  the  Livertnore  Valley.  1971 

Albert  J.  Winkler,  Viticultural  Research  at  UC  Davis  (1921-1971).  1973 

John  H.  Wright,  Domaine  Chandon:  The  First  French-owned  California  Sparkling 
Wine  Cellar,  includes  an  interview  with  Edmond  Maudiere,  1992 


vi 


INTRODUCTION- -by  Ann  C.  Noble 

Zelma  Long  is  a  tall,  slender,  and  elegant  individual  with  a  shock 
of  blond  hair.   Long  before  the  casual  look  was  approved  as  a  career 
woman's  style  of  dress,  Zelma  patented  it.   Beyond  this  superficial 
description  of  her  appearance,  on  talking  to  her,  one  immediately 
realizes  that  she  is  a  very  poised,  articulate,  and  strong  person,  who 
can  be  very  intensely  focused  or  can  switch  gears  and  be  ready  to  laugh 
and  enjoy  life  equally  intensely. 

I  first  met  Zelma  in  the  mid- '70s  through  University  functions,  such 
as  short  courses.   Over  the  years,  I  have  increasingly  had  opportunities 
to  interact  with  her  on  both  a  professional  and  personal  basis.   As  she 
first  emerged  in  the  mid- '70s  as  a  recognized  enologist,  the  press  was 
eagerly  reporting  on  her  and  the  few  other  women  in  the  wine  industry, 
perhaps  incorrectly  giving  the  impression  that  they  were  token  women. 
Zelma  Long  and  Mary  Ann  Graf  with  a  few  others  did  serve  as  pioneer  women 
winemakers  in  an  industry  previously  dominated  by  males.   However,  within 
the  industry,  from  the  start  Zelma  and  Mary  Ann  were  recognized  for  their 
skills,  not  for  being  female  winemakers.   In  addition  to  her  activities 
described  in  this  text,  Zelma  was  the  informal  founder  of  the  Goddesses, 
a  group  of  women  in  the  wine  industry  and  related  fields,  who  meet  to 
celebrate  life  and  their  achievements.   Through  these  rafting,  hiking, 
horseback  riding,  and  camping  outings  I  have  gotten  to  know  Zelma  and 
truly  appreciate  the  intensity  of  her  approach  to  her  work  and  to  life. 

This  oral  history  chronicles  very  well  the  development  of  Zelma' s 
winemaking  career,  which  parallels  the  explosive  growth  of  the  California 
wine  industry  in  numbers  of  wineries,  personnel,  capital  invested,  and 
level  of  experience.   It  also  documents  her  personal  growth,  from  her 
apprenticeship  under  Mike  Grgich  where  she  learned  details  of  winemaking, 
through  the  development  of  her  own  winemaking  style  as  she  integrated 
what  she  had  learned.   From  this  synthesis  of  her  experience,  she  has 
structured  her  own  winemaking  philosophy  and  direction.   For  several 
years ,  Zelma  has  given  the  last  lecture  in  my  Sensory  evaluation  of  wine 
course.   Although  she  excites  the  students  each  year  with  her 
presentation,  her  approach  has  changed  reflecting  her  recent  development 
as  a  leader  in  the  wine  industry.   She  has  shifted  her  emphasis  from 
reviewing  details  of  winemaking,  which  of  course  is  valuable  information 
for  the  students,  to  focusing  on  the  importance  of  establishing  one's 
winemaking  goals.   This  change  in  orientation  is  a  valuable  and  exciting 
one;  at  the  University  we  can  give  students  a  scientific  background, 
through  internships  they  can  learn  practical  details  of  winery 
operations,  but  only  by  seasoned  thinking  winemakers  can  they  be 
challenged  to  set  their  focus  on  a  goal  rather  than  on  the  details. 


vii 


Zelma  and  others  in  the  wine  industry  have  played  a  leading  role  in 
supporting  research.   Without  the  far-sighted  outlook  of  such  individuals 
and  their  keen  interest  in  continually  improving  wine  quality,  the 
initial  dramatic  contributions  which  the  University  made  to  improve  the 
quality  of  California  wines  would  not  be  continuing  today. 

Ann  C.  Noble 

Department  of  Viticulture  and 
Enology 

May  1992 

University  of  California,  Davis 


viii 


INTERVIEW  HISTORY- -Zelma  R.  Long 


Zelma  R.  Long,  President  and  Chief  Executive  Officer  of  Simi  Winery, 
was  interviewed  as  part  of  the  Wine  Spectator  California  Winemen  Oral 
History  Series  to  document  the  history  and  evolution  of  Simi  through  the 
1970s  and  1980s.   The  Simi  winery,  the  first  to  be  built  in  Healdsburg, 
dates  from  1890.   The  business  was  established  in  the  1870s,  then 
purchased  in  1881  by  the  Simi  brothers,  Giuseppe  and  Pietro,  who  operated 
it  for  many  years .   The  winery  survived  Prohibition  and  continued  as  a 
family  operation  until  purchased  in  1970  by  Russell  Green.   By  1974  it 
was  owned  by  Scottish  Newcastle,  and  Michael  Dixon  was  president.   Dixon 
stayed  on  when  the  winery  was  sold  to  Schlieffelin  &  Co,  which  became  the 
property  of  the  French  Champagne  company,  Moet-Hennessey,  in  1981. 
(Moet-Hennessey  now  belongs  to  parent  company  LVMH  Moet-Hennessey  Louis 
Vuitton.)   In  1979  then  President  Dixon  hired  Zelma  Long  as  winemaker  and 
empowered  her  to  manage  a  new  direction  for  the  winery  to  be  fueled  by  a 
$5.5  million  capital  investment. 

Creative,  innovative,  and  research-oriented,  Long  had  been  head 
enologist  at  the  Robert  Mondavi  winery,  where  she  participated  in  the 
whirlwind  growth  that  took  place  in  the  1970s  of  the  winery,  the  wine 
industry  in  general,  and  knowledge  of  winegrowing.   In  her  oral  history, 
Long  emphasizes  the  "winegrowing"  aspects --the  integration  of  viticulture 
and  enology  to  produce  the  end  product,  wine.   At  Simi  she  brought  to 
bear  her  skills  and  philosophy,  concentrating  on  aiming  for  the  highest 
quality  wines,  particularly  Chardonnay,  Cabernet  Sauvignon,  and  Sauvignon 
Blanc.   She  has  written  and  spoken  extensively  about  wine,  and  has  come 
to  play  a  leadership  role  in  the  industry  internationally.   She  has 
received  several  awards  for  her  accomplishments  in  the  field. 

Long  was  interviewed  at  Simi  on  September  22  and  23,  1991,  and  on 
January  21,  1992.   She  reviewed  and  promptly  returned  the  transcript, 
making  a  few  slight  changes.   Her  assistant,  Gayle  Curtiss,  was  most 
helpful  in  arranging  appointments  and  furnishing  photographs  and  other 
materials.   Dr.  Ann  Noble  of  the  University  of  California  at  Davis,  who 
has  worked  with  Long  at  Simi  in  conducting  experimental  research,  kindly 
agreed  to  write  the  introduction. 

This  series  is  part  of  the  ongoing  documenting  of  California  history 
by  the  Regional  Oral  History  Office,  which  is  under  the  direction  of 
Willa  Baum,  Division  Head,  and  under  the  administrative  direction  of  The 
Bancroft  Library,  University  of  California,  Berkeley. 


Carole  Hicke 
Interviewer -Editor 


May  1992 

Regional  Oral  History  Office 

Berkeley,  California 


Regional  Oral  History  Office  University  of  California 

Room  486  The  Bancroft  Library  Berkeley,  California  94720 

BIOGRAPHICAL  INFORMATION 

Your  full  name      "Z^£  /  MA  C  J  ?£t  SI  /iWp/ 
Date  of  birth     />  -  /-  <-/  3  _  Birthplace 


Father's  full  name        ^Cu    (6  '  *>&r  /*(£>&  d  Birthplace    ^g^  /<£/?.  <l  slT^ 

*" 


Occupation  #0.  C  t\<f  S  ' 


V 

Family 

Spouse 


Chi Idren A^C 


Where  did  you  grow  up 
Education 


?      I  n 


u 


Mother's  full  name    \/?#  ft       L&  !/€-{/  Kf&L  _  Birthplace     ~}  /ZV/  Ifc  t<U4$li  'tH 
Occupation 


Areas   of   expertise  _  -Q.  \AC  \(^^  i  A     r^AA  C\     ur  J  r  I  ^  (j  \  7  UY  € 


:rgQi 


Special  interests  or  activities 

t>^  6 1 


11% 

' 


I   BACKGROUND  AND  EARLY  YEARS 
[Interview  1:   September  23, 

Family  and  Childhood 


Hicke:   I'd  like  to  start  at  the  beginning  by  asking  when  and  where 
you  were  born. 

Long:    I  was  born  in  1943  in  The  Dalles,  Oregon.   I  lived  in  that 

town  through  my  high  school  graduation.   I  completed  college 
in  Oregon  and  then  moved  to  California. 

Hicke:   Was  there  any  member  of  your  family  who  had  a  lot  of  influence 
on  you? 

Long:    With  regards  to  wine? 

Hicke:   With  that,  but  also  in  your  general  life  and  ways  of  doing 
things . 

Long:    You  know,  I  can't  say  there's  a  stand-out  person.   Of  course, 
your  parents  are  always  your  main  influence.   Certainly  there 
were  no  influences  relative  to  wine,  because  no  one  that  I 
knew  grew  grapes,  drank  wine,  or  talked  or  thought  about  wine. 


Hicke:   Where  do  your  parents  come  from? 


!This  symbol  (##)  indicates  that  a  tape  or  a  segment  of  a  tape  has 
begun  or  ended.   A  guide  to  the  tapes  follows  the  text. 


Long:    My  parents  both  grew  up  in  eastern  Washington. 


General  Education 


Hicke:   You  went  to  school  in  Oregon  until  you  came  to  California? 

Long:    I  went  on  to  Oregon  State  University.   I  started  studying  home 
economics  with  an  intent  to  become  a  dietitian,  so  I  was 
majoring  in  home  economics  and  minor ing  in  dietetics- -in 
nutrition,  actually.   I  really  disliked  home  economics,  so 
after  the  first  year  I  went  to  an  advisor  and  asked  what  I 
could  major  in  that  would  allow  me  to  continue  my  nutrition- - 
developing  my  nutrition  background  in  courses .   The  advisor 
steered  me  into  a  general  science  major,  which  was  a  wonderful 
major  because  it  allowed  me  to  study  a  wide  range  of  science -- 
chemistry,  biochemistry,  microbiology- -but  it  wasn't  so 
confining  or  constraining  that  I  wasn't  able  to  study  a  wide 
range  of  liberal  arts  courses,  too. 

So  I  majored  in  science  and  minored  in  nutrition.   In 
fact,  in  the  long  run  that  turned  out  to  be  a  very  good 
background,  because  it  was  that  science  background  that  later 
was  going  to  enable  me  to  go  into  the  master's  program  at  UC 
[University  of  California]  Davis  without  backtracking. 

Hicke:   Then  you  started  an  MBA  [Master  of  Business  Administration] 
program,  is  that  right? 

Long:    No,  my  education  followed  the  path  of  college  education, 

dietetic  internship  for  a  year  at  UC  Medical  Center  in  San 
Francisco,  then  a  few  years  later  returning  into  the  master's 
program  in  enology  and  viticulture  at  UC  Davis  in  1968  and 
continuing  in  that  program  on  a  part-time  basis  through  1970. 
The  MBA  work  I  did  when  I  first  came  to  Simi  in  the  early 
eighties,  again  on  a  part-time  basis.   Then  in  1988  I  went  to 
Stanford  for  two  months  for  a  program  called  the  Stanford 
Executive  Program.2  I  got  a  broad- spectrum  education,  which 
is  what  I've  appreciated. 


2The  MBA  was  not  completed.   The  Stanford  Executive  program  was. 
ZL 


Winemakine  Studies 


Hicke:   You  went  to  UC  Davis,  and  I'd  like  to  hear  about  your  studies 
there . 

Long:    I  moved  to  the  Napa  Valley  in  1968.   At  the  time  I  moved  there 
I  had  completed  my  dietetic  internship,  I'd  been  working  as  a 
dietitian,  and  I  decided  that  I  didn't  want  to  pursue  that 
career.   Even  in  1968  in  the  Napa  Valley  you  had  a  sense  that 
it  was  an  area  that  was  all  about  grapes  and  grape  growing  and 
agriculture  and  winemaking,  so  I  thought  it  might  be  fun  to  go 
back  to  UC  Davis.   In  addition,  my  husband's  parents  had 
purchased  some  property  in  1966  in  the  eastern  hills  of  the 
Napa  Valley,  and  they  had  started  to  develop  a  vineyard.   So 
from  '66  to  '70  they  were  slowly  planting  a  small  parcel  of 
vineyard,  and  they  were  talking  about  wines  and  someday  having 
a  winery.   We  actually  made  a  little  bit  of  wine  in  1969,  just 
home  winemaking. 

Partly  living  in  the  Napa  Valley  and  partly  having  this 
family  interest  developing  in  vineyards  and  wines  triggered  my 
interest  in  going  back  to  school  in  winemaking.   I  was 
thinking,  "Well,  if  they're  going  to  have  a  winery  someday, 
maybe  I  can  learn  how  to  make  wine  and  contribute . "   So  I  went 
to  Davis  in  '68  and  applied  for  admission  into  their  master's 
program.   Again,  because  of  my  science  background  I  was 
qualified  to  go  into  the  program.   I  started  to  take  classes, 
and  I  was  living  in  Napa  Valley  and  commuting  over  there, 
taking  classes  three  days  a  week.   That  continued  in  '68,  '69, 
and  '70. 

Hicke:   Didn't  you  study  with  Dr.  [Maynard  A.]  Amerine? 

Long:    Dr.  Jim  [James  A.]  Cook  was  teaching  viticulture,  as  was 
[Dr.]  Lloyd  [A.]  Lider.   Amerine  was  teaching  sensory 
evaluation;  Harold  Berg- -Hod  Berg- -was  teaching  wine 
stability;  [Dr.]  Ralph  [E.]  Kunkee  was  teaching  wine 
microbiology,  and  [Dr.]  Vern  [Vernon  L. ]  Singleton  was 
teaching  phenolics. 

Hicke:   You  had  some  of  the  masters. 

Long:    Yes,  but  I  didn't  take  all  those  courses;  I  didn't  have  Vern's 
phenolics  course.   Our  classes  were  very  small,  and  it  was 
very  easy  to  know  those  professors  personally.   They  were 


4 


wonderful  people,  really  supportive,  so  it  was  a  tremendously 
rich  educational  environment. 

George  [M.]  Cooke  was  the  extension  enologist,  and  he 
would  come  over  and  look  at  the  vineyards  with  Bob  Long's 
parents,  Bob,  and  myself.   He  worked  with  us  when  we  were 
doing  our  first  fermentation.   We  felt  integrated  into  that 
department  and  the  people  there.   Those  were  some  lifelong 
friendships  that  we  established.   Jim  Lider,  Lloyd  Lider's 
brother,  was  the  Napa  County  extension  agent  at  the  time,  and 
he  was  the  one  who  had  made  the  original  recommendations  for 
the  grapes  to  plant  at  Long  Vineyards.   So  we  really  knew  him 
before  we  knew  his  brother,  who  was  a  professor  at  UC  Davis. 

Hicke:   What  did  you  plant? 

Long:    It's  interesting  to  look  back.   We  planted  a  lot  of 

Johannisberg  Riesling  on  Jim's  recommendation.   We  planted  a 
very  small  amount  of  Chardonnay,  and  he  really  didn't 
encourage  us  to  plant  more,  because  he  felt  that  Chardonnay 
had  been  very  unsuccessful.   [laughter]   You  know,  it's  funny 
to  look  back.   Also,  in  those  first  few  years  my  parents-in- 
law  had  a  home  in  Angwin,  and  my  husband  and  I  bought  a  house 
in  Angwin.   We  traveled  up  and  down  the  hill  from  St.  Helena 
to  Angwin,  and  one  of  the  wineries  along  the  road  was 
Souverain  [Cellars].   Souverain  and  Stony  Hill,  when  I  came  to 
the  Napa  Valley  in  the  sixties,  were  two  of  the  wineries  that 
were  the  avant  garde ,  making  new  wines  and  fine  wines . 

I  got  to  know  Lee  Stewart,  the  owner  of  Souverain  .   In 
fact,  his  wine  was  the  first  California  wine  I  ever  tasted.   I 
remember  Lee  Stewart  saying,  "Chardonnay  will  never  make  a 
great  wine  in  California.   It's  just  not  that  good  a  variety." 
[laughter] 

So  we  planted  a  lot  of  Riesling  and  a  little  Chardonnay, 
and  we  grew  those  varieties  for  about  ten  years.   Then,  from 
1979  or  '80  through  1987,  we  proceeded  to  either  T-bud  or 
replant  almost  all  the  Riesling  to  Chardonnay  [laughs], 
because  Chardonnay  in  fact  was  extraordinarily  successful  in 
that  site.   We've  made  some  great  Rieslings,  but  Chardonnay 
was  more  of  a  commercial  success.   That  pretty  much  mirrored 
the  whole  pattern,  and  there  were  very  good  reasons  for  it. 
In  those  days  the  Chardonnay  clones  that  were  planted  in  the 
valley  that  were  "unsuccessful"  were  unproductive,  susceptible 
to  disease.   From  a  farming  point  of  view  they  were  very 
undependable  and  unsatisfactory.   It  wasn't  until  the  more 


productive  clones  of  Chardonnay  that  [Dr.]  Harold  [Paul]  Olmo 
developed  at  Davis  came  into  commercial  use,  which  was  pretty 
much  in  the  seventies,  that  Chardonnay  became  of  more 
commercial  interest  for  a  grape  grower.   That  coincided  with 
more  public  interest  and  more  success,  and  it  just  rolled  out 
from  that. 

Hicke:   He  probably  had  part  of  that  right,  if  that  clone  development 
hadn't  taken  place.   Or  had  it  already  taken  place  by  then? 

Long:    It's  hard  to  know.   I  would  say  that  certainly  the  planting 
decisions  of  the  time  were  made  with  the  best  information  at 
the  time,  but  in  fact  it  turned  out  to  be  just  the  opposite  of 
what  worked  really  well. 

Hicke:   Why  is  Chardonnay  so  much  more  popular  than  Riesling? 

Long:    That's  a  good  question.   I  think  in  a  general  way  that  it's 

the  flavor  quality  of  Chardonnay  that  makes  it  unique.   It  has 
a  rich  texture  and  flavor.   As  you  drink  good  Chardonnay,  it 
always  has  the  sensation  of  richness  and  silkiness,  and  it  has 
a  particular  personality  or  group  of  flavor  components- -the 
butter,  honey,  vanilla,  coffee  characteristics- -that  I  think 
are  flavors  that  the  American  public  really  likes;  these  are 
all  flavors  that  Americans  like  intrinsically.   So  the 
texture,  the  body,  and  the  flavor  personality  of  Chardonnay 
honed  into  a  spectrum  of  tastes  and  sensations  that  just  had  a 
broad  general  appeal . 


II  WINEMAKING  AT  ROBERT  MONDAVI  WINERY:   1970-1979 


Joining  the  Winery 


Hicke:    How  did  you  actually  get  into  winemaking? 

Long:     By  1970  I  had  spent  about  two  years  at  Davis,  and  I  was  in 

the  process  in  August  of  1970  of  getting  ready  to  go  back  to 
school  to  complete  my  master's  course,  with  really  little 
thought  of  doing  anything  but  that.   But  Mike  [Miljenko] 
Grgich,  who  was  the  enologist  in  charge  of  the  winemaking  at 
Robert  Mondavi,  called  me- -I  didn't  know  who  he  was- -and  left 
a  message  that  he  would  be  interested  in  having  me  come  to 
work  for  the  harvest.   I  called  him  back,  and  we  chatted.   It 
turned  out  that  Robert  Mondavi  was  just  starting  the  harvest, 
and  Mike  desperately  needed  someone  to  work  with  him,  just 
for  the  harvest  period,  to  do  pretty  basic  work- -keeping  some 
of  the  winemaking  records  and  doing  the  rather  simple 
analysis  that's  done  around  harvest.   Someone  at  the 
University  had  given  him  my  name. 

Hicke:    I  was  wondering  how  he  found  it. 

Long:     Really,  to  this  day  I  don't  know  who  that  was.   I  started  out 
by  declining  his  offer,  because  my  mind  was  on  returning  to 
school.   He  called  me  back,  and  he  said,  "You  know,  this  is  a 
really  good  opportunity;  it's  a  good  learning  opportunity, 
and  you  should  seriously  consider  it."   So  I  thought,  "Well, 
maybe  I  should  give  it  a  try."   I  went  down  and  talked  to 
him,  and  I  started  soon  after  that.   They  had  already  started 
to  harvest,  and  Robert  Mondavi  that  year,  1970,  as  I  recall, 
crushed  about  1,700  tons  of  grapes,  which  would  be  about  a 


hundred  thousand  cases,  not  necessarily  a  small  amount  for 
the  time- -a  fairly  large  amount- -but  certainly  small  compared 
to  what  they  ultimately  developed. 

I  was  immediately  fascinated.   I  was  hooked. 


Early  Responsibilities 


Hicke:    So  for  that  first  crush  you  were  keeping  records? 

Long:     I  was  keeping  production  records  and  doing  analysis.   I  would 
go  around  with  Mike  every  day  and  check  each  fermenter  and 
record  the  Brix  and  the  temperature  and  taste  it.   It  was  a 
wonderful  time ,  because  Mike  was  a  winemaker  with  both  the 
European  traditional  roots  of  winemaking- -his  family  made 
wine  when  he  grew  up- -and  what  was  for  that  time  some  very 
sophisticated  experience  that  he'd  had  at  Beaulieu  [Vineyard] 
for  ten  years  working  with  Andre  Tchelistcheff .   He  also 
worked  with  Lee  Stewart,  so  he'd  been  working  with  some  very 
high-quality  grapes  and  some  of  the  top  people  in  the  valley. 

As  we  would  go  around  from  tank  to  tank  recording  the 
information,  he  would  talk  about  the  wine  and  how  it  was 
being  made  and  the  personality  in  a  mixture  of  the  technical 
information  and  the  European,  rather  romantic  way  of  talking 
about  wine- -which  you've  experienced,  for  example,  if  you've 
ever  talked  to  Andre  Tchelistcheff;  the  Europeans  take  a  very 
different  way  of  thinking  and  talking  about  wine . 

Hicke:    It  has  a  little  bit  to  do  with  that  mystifying  and 
demystifying  aspect. 

Long:     Exactly  right.   They  haven't  lost  the  sense  of  romance  and 
beauty  and  humanity  and  spirituality.   I  think  they  haven't 
lost  it,  and  we- -you  know,  it's  there  for  us.   Intrinsically 
that's  what  provides  the  attraction  for  the  industry,  but 
it's  not  something  that  we  talk  about  as  easily  as  the 
Europeans  do. 

Hicke:    Where  did  Mike  get  that? 

Long:     He  was  Yugoslavian,  and  that  was  part  of  his  background  and 
heritage. 


Hicke:    Did  you  stay  on  with  them  for  the  rest  of  the  year? 

Long:     After  harvest  Mike  asked  me  if  I  would  consider  continuing  to 
work  part  time,  and  I  decided  I  would  do  that,  because  in 
fact  I  found  the  winery  work  was  completely  fascinating.   It 
was  so  interesting  and  so  different  from  anything  I  had  ever 
done.   There  were  so  many  variables.   It  was  very  complex  and 
therefore  intriguing  and  intellectually  challenging. 

So  I  continued  to  work  part  time  there  that  first  year. 
Then  the  second  harvest  rolled  around,  and  as  I  recall  we 
doubled  our  production  from  the  first  to  the  second  year,  so 
that  was  a  significant  amount  of  work;  that  was  the  '71 
harvest.   I  started  to  work  full  time,  and  I'm  still  a  little 
hazy  about  exactly  when  that  started,  but  I  was  obviously 
working  full  time  at  harvest,  and  after  the  harvest  of  '71  I 
continued  to  work  full  time. 


Change  and  Innovation 


Long:     There  was  a  lot  of  physical  change  at  Mondavi's  in  that  time 
period.   When  they  started,  the  laboratory  was  up  in  the 
tower,  what  are  offices  now  was  their  barrel  room,  and  they 
had  just  completed  what  is  now  the  main  part  of  the  winery. 
So  in  that  first  year  that  I  worked  we  moved  into  a  brand-new 
laboratory,  and  the  winery  continued  to  grow.   At  the  same 
time,  the  Mondavis  clear  through  the  seventies  had  a  tendency 
to  try  everything  new  that  they  came  across.   It  seemed  like 
every  year  we  had  a  new  press,  a  new  centrifuge,  some  new 
piece  of  equipment.   There  was  growth  in  the  amount  of  wine 
that  was  being  produced,  and  there  was  also  a  lot  of  change, 
both  in  the  physical  circumstances  at  the  winery  and  in  the 
kinds  of  equipment  and  techniques  that  we  were  using.   That 
was  just  the  start,  but  it  was  a  continuing  period  of 
tremendous  change  from  year  to  year. 

Hicke:    All  that  change  was  basically  Robert  Mondavi's  thrust,  or  was 
Mike  in  on  that,  too? 

Long:     If  I  remember  correctly,  Mike  [Michael]  Mondavi  worked  with 

Robert  from  the  beginning  in  1966,  so  he  was  really  in  charge 
of  the  winemaking  in  a  very  general  sense  at  that  time,  but 
Mike  Grgich  was  the  person  who  was  making  all  the  day-to-day 
decisions  with  the  interaction  of  Robert  Mondavi.   Bob 


Mondavi  would  come  around--!  was  describing  this  daily 
morning  tasting  of  all  the  fermenters- -and  join  us  on  those 
tastings  from  time  to  time  and  give  his  input.   When  we  were 
doing  winemaking  tasting  decisions,  he  would  join  us  with 
some  regularity. 

Certainly  through  most  of  my  tenure  at  Mondavi,  Robert 
Mondavi,  particularly  in  the  first  six  years,  was  the  person 
whom  I  thought  of  as  giving  the  basic,  general  imprint  to  the 
wine.   Then  in  the  years  that  Mike  Grgich  was  there,  he  was 
the  person  who  would  take  the  general  direction  and  turn  it 
into  action  and  interpret  it  into  daily  decisions.   When  Mike 
left,  it  became  my  responsibility  to  take  this  general 
direction  and  turn  it  into  specific  action  on  a  daily  basis. 

Hicke:    I'm  particularly  interested  in  this  foment  of  change,  because 
I  see  that  in  Simi  since  you  came  here.   It's  clearly  going 
on  today.   Did  you  pick  that  up  there,  or  was  that  Robert 
Mondavi's  style? 

Long:     It  was  his  style.   Our  industry  really  has  been  a  fantastic 
opportunity.   With  his  style,  he  had  a  tremendous  energy  and 
a  tremendous  curiosity,  so  it's  almost  for  me  as  if  I  never 
knew  another  way.   I  do  have  this  sense  that  the  wine 
industry  tends  to  attract  people  either  from  an  intellectual 
or  a  sensual,  sensory  basis;  it  gets  people  either  in  one 
place  or  another  or  both.   From  my  perspective,  the  core  of 
what  was  happening  there  was  seeking  to  continue  to  evolve 
quality  and  style  and  looking  at  all  kinds  of  tools  to  do 
that.   In  that  decade  there  were  more  winery  tools- -barrels, 
presses,  fermenters,  centrifuges- -that  were  used  to  control, 
modify,  manage,  and  enhance  the  winemaking  process. 

When  I  came  to  Simi,  I  saw  the  tools  as  the  vineyard, 
and  I  still  do.   I  think  the  general  vision  that  Robert 
Mondavi  gave  the  industry  in  that  time  period  relative  to 
winemaking  was  the  sense  of,  "Let's  ask  a  lot  of  questions 
about  the  process,  and  let's  try  a  lot  of  things."   In  doing 
that,  we  were  able  to  refine  our  winemaking,  and  it  was  all 
in  the  milieu  of  this  enormous  growth.   In  four  years  we  went 
from  1,700  to  about  7,500  tons  of  grapes  crushed,  and  believe 
me,  that  is  a  considerable  expansion.   So  it  was  a  crazy, 
exciting  environment  to  work  in- -both  crazy  and  exciting. 

Hicke:    If  there  is  any  one  way  you  could  describe  it,  can  you 
encapsulate  the  reasons  for  his  success? 


10 


Long:     I  think  Mondavi's  success  is  relevant  to  his  vision.   He 
could  see  something  and  had  clarity  of  that  vision,  the 
intensity  of  belief  and  his  confidence  in  that  vision- -the 
vision  was  the  quality  and  the  place  of  California  wines  in 
the  world.   He  had  this  vision  and  a  great  deal  of  confidence 
to  support  that  vision,  and  a  tremendous  amount  of  physical 
energy  to  apply  toward  it.   The  physical  energy  wasn't  just 
in  terms  of  how  many  hours  a  day  you  could  work.   It's  this 
positive  force  that  motivates  people  to  see  things  the  way 
you  see  them  and  want  to  achieve  what  you  want  to  achieve . 
It  is  physical  energy  carried  to  a  charisma  that  is  a 
tremendously  motivating  force  on  people. 

Hicke:    So  he  was  really  an  inspiration? 

Long:     For  me,  working  at  Robert  Mondavi  for  those  ten  years  was  a 

tremendous  opportunity.   I  had  an  opportunity  to  probably  try 
and  experience  and  experiment  with  every  different  kind  of 
grape,  source  of  grape,  every  piece  of  winemaking  equipment. 
Then  I  also  directed  a  research  program,  so  we  were  able  to 
raise  and  answer  many,  many  questions  in  winemaking.   I  was 
able  to  see  the  result  of  many  more  techniques  than  we 
actually  used  on  a  daily  basis,  so  it  was  just  an  incredible 
opportunity. 


It  was  really  a  wonderful  opportunity  to  work  with 
Robert  Mondavi.   I  have  enormous  respect  for  him.   I  was 
recently  at  the  winery's  twenty- fifth  anniversary,  and  as  you 
listened  to  the  past  employees  talk  about  Robert  Mondavi, 
they  all  have  stories  to  tell.   Many  of  them  are  very  funny, 
but  they're  all  told  with  this  underlying  affection.   I  think 
Mr.  Mondavi  often  could  ask  for  things  that  were  impossible 
to  do.   We  used  to  tease  him  and  say,  "Look,  we  can  do 
anything,  but  we  can't  do  everything  all  at  once."  There  was 
always  this  underlying  positive  expectation  that  each  person 
was  really  contributing  and  an  expectation  of  a  positive 
outcome  of  events --and  good  will,  just  a  tremendous  amount  of 
good  will. 

Hicke:    He  has  outstanding  "people"  skills,  obviously. 

Long:     Yes,  he  does,  and  he  certainly  had  outstanding  people. 

Hicke:    What  was  the  research  program  you  conducted  there? 


11 


Long:     When  I  first  started  there  and  was  really  an  apprentice,  for 
every  question  we  answered,  we  probably  raised  three 
questions --and  we  still  do.   For  example,  if  you're  making 
Cabernet,  what's  the  desirable  length  of  fermentation?   How 
often  should  it  be  mixed  or  pumped  over?  How  often,  how 
long?  What  would  the  highest  fermentation  temperature  be? 
How  long  should  it  sit  on  the  skins  before  pressing?   Should 
we  separate  the  press  wine?  With  every  wine,  as  we  talked 
about  the  whole  game  plan  for  making  that  wine,  we  would  have 
a  hundred  alternatives. 

You  know,  in  those  days  there  was  very  little 
experience  in  the  industry;  there  wasn't  the  body  of 
knowledge  that  was  passed  down  from  generation  to  generation. 
All  of  the  people  making  wine  in  the  seventies  were  really 
young  winemakers  looking  to  get  as  much  information  as  they 
could  through  their  own  experience.   The  experiments  would, 
say,  designate  ten  barrels  of  Chardonnay  and  use  a  different 
yeast  with  each  barrel.   Or  we  would  do  small -lot  winemaking 
and  make  some  variations  in  how  we  made  a  particular  lot  of 
wine.   They  were  a  way  for  us  to  learn  ourselves  about  how 
the  variables  in  winemaking  affect  the  wine  itself.   They 
enabled  us  to  fine  tune  the  winemaking  process,  and  they 
taught  us  about  the  winemaking,  in  that  we  could  take 
information  and  use  it  to  transcend  a  particular  situation 
and  allow  us  to  make  better  decisions  in  other  situations. 

That  research  program  in  the  first  few  years  was 
casual.   Then  later,  by  the  mid- seventies,  there  was  a 
research  enologist  hired,  and  during  harvest  we  had  a  small- 
lots  winemaker  who  spent  time  making  five-,  ten-,  and 
fifteen- gallon  lots  of  wines  with  different  variations.   A 
whole  research  branch  of  the  winery  developed. 


How  Winemaking  Evolved  In  the  1970s.  1980s,  and 


Long:     In  general,  I  see  three  differences  in  the  three  decades  of 
winemaking.   In  the  seventies  I  see  this  seeking  to 
understand  the  winemaking  process  in  the  winery.   You're 
dealing  with  a  very  young  group  of  winemakers:   how  do  we 
really  make  wine,  how  do  we  learn  how  to  make  the  decisions 
in  the  winery,  what's  the  proper  kind  of  barrels  and 
equipment?  We  were  exploring  fermentation  strategies,  barrel 
aging  strategies,  and  many  different  things.   In  the  eighties 


12 


the  question  became:   what  is  it  in  the  vineyard  that  we  can 
learn  about  and  use  that's  going  to  impact  positively  the 
style  and  quality  of  the  wines?   In  the  eighties  there  has 
been  a  tremendous  burst  of  experimental  work  in  the 
vineyards.   In  the  nineties,  the  questions  are:   what  are  the 
characteristics  of  each  specific  site,  and  how,  in  any  given 
vintage,  can  I  modify  my  winemaking  to  best  suit  the  grapes 
from  a  particular  site? 

To  take  one  variety  as  an  example,  in  the  1970s  we 
would  have  been  saying,  "What's  the  best  fermentation 
temperature  for  Chardonnay?  Should  it  be  barrel -fermented  or 
not?  What  kind  of  barrels  should  it  be  aged  in?   Should  it 
have  skin  contact?   How  much  skin  contact?"   In  the  eighties, 
the  questions  would  have  evolved  into,  "What's  the  right 
harvest  timing  for  Chardonnay?  What  are  the  right  sources  of 
Chardonnay?   Are  clones  important?  What  about  proper  crop 
load?"   And  then  refinement  of  winery  technique.   By  the 
eighties,  barrel  fermentation  and  malolactic  fermentation 
were  accepted,  and  we  looked  at  nuance  of  skin  contact, 
direct  to  press,  press  separation,  lees  contact,  lees 
stirring,  and  really  looked  at  the  nuances  in  the  use  of 
barrels.   But  at  the  same  time  we  were  raising  all  these 
questions  about  the  vineyard.   We  had  refinement  of 
winemaking  technique,  and  now  came  the  basic  questions  of  the 
vineyard. 


In  the  nineties  I  think  we  will  see  refinement  of 
viticultural  technique  applied  to  winemaking,  and  then  we're 
going  to  see  these  questions  about,  "Well,  we're  not  really 
talking  ' Chardonnay '  when  we  make  Chardonnay ;  we ' re  talking 
about  'Chardonnay  in  1991  from  this  four-acre  plot  of  land  in 
northwestern  Alexander  Valley  on  rocky  loam  soil  that's  a 
seven-year-old  planting. '   How  do  we  fine-tune  our  winemaking 
to  that  Chardonnay?"  Winemaking  questions  about  Chardonnay 
as  a  varietal  will  evolve  to  questions  addressed  to 
Chardonnay  in  a  specific  site  in  a  specific  vintage.   It  is 
called  site  specific  winemaking.   That's  going  to  be  what 
happens  in  the  next  ten  years .   At  the  end  of  the  nineties 
the  people  who  can  most  successfully  answer  that  question  and 
practice  site  specific  winemaking  will  be  the  best 
winemakers;  they'll  be  producing  the  best  wines. 

That's  integration  of  winegrowing  and  winemaking- - 
integration  of  the  vineyard,  the  viticulture,  the  vintage, 
and  the  winemaking  process. 


13 


Hicke:    The  kit  of  maps  with  the  different  kinds  of  soil  and 

different  clones  and  varieties  was  fascinating.  I  see  where 
that's  going,  but  1  don't  know  how  you  can  keep  track  of  all 
that.  [See  maps  following  page  59] 

Long:     It's  like  anything  else;  you  do  little  generalizations.   You 
don't  maybe  know  the  details  of  every  single  soil  that  you're 
working  with,  but  you  begin  to  group  them  into  certain  types 
and  behavior  patterns  and  so  forth. 

Hicke:    We  leaped  ahead  here,  but  that's  a  nice  overview  of  how 
things  have  gone . 


Experimentation  in  the  1970s 


Long:     You  were  asking  about  the  experiments  and  what  they  mean  to 

winemaking  today.   In  many  ways  they're  not  directly  relevant 
to  winemaking  today.   They  were  relevant  to  the  time.   Still 
and  all,  they  established  a  base  of  information  that  we 
almost  know  instinctively  now  and  take  for  granted.   The 
things  that  we  do  now  routinely,  for  example  with 
Chardonnay--malolactic  fermentation,  barrel  fermentation- -it 
wasn't  until  the  end  of  the  seventies  that  people  were  more 
or  less  using  those  techniques.   So  what  we  don't  even  think 
about  much  now  was  still  being  developed  and  explored  in  that 
time. 

Hicke:    It's  an  amazing  amount  of  change,  isn't  it? 

Long:     It  is,  and  what's  true  about  that  change  is  that  you  have  to 
come  back  and  ask  the  same  questions  over  again.   For 
example,  the  issue  of  skin  contact- -in  the  seventies  it  was 
discussed,  and  there  was  a  certain  general  direction  taken 
for  use  of  skin  contact  for  Chardonnay  because  people  had  a 
certain  expectation  of  what  Chardonnay  should  be  like:   big 
and  rich.   The  general  use  of  new  barrels  in  the  seventies 
was  "the  more  the  better,"  and  that  was  all  in  the  context  of 
thinking  that  the  best  Chardonnays  were  those  big,  oaky,  fat, 
buttery  ones.   In  the  eighties  that  changed.   The  perception 
of  what  a  good  Chardonnay  was  changed;  it  evolved.   So  all  of 
the  time  that  the  winemaking  was  evolving,  so  was  the  palate 
of  the  winemakers,  the  palate  of  the  public,  and  the 
understanding  of  what  a  great  wine  really  was.   What  was  an 
appropriate  technique  within  the  style  and  quality  goals  of 


14 


the  seventies  was  not  necessarily  appropriate  in  the  eighties 
and  will  not  necessarily  be  appropriate  in  the  nineties.  The 
standards  change. 

The  change  of  our  standards  for  a  fine  wine  is  not 
talked  about  very  much  and  is  probably  the  most  important 
change.   I  believe  that  the  approach  should  be  the  opposite 
from  the  way  most  people  talk.   Most  people  start  with  the 
process  and  end  up  with  a  product;  but  with  wine,  most 
important  is  to  start  with  what  you  want  to  make:   what  is  in 
your  head?  What's  a  great  Cabernet,  Chardonnay,  Zinfandel, 
whatever  it  is  you  want  to  make?  What  does  it  taste  like, 
what  does  it  smell  like,  what  does  it  feel  like  in  your 
mouth?  And  then  you  work  backwards  to  the  process,  how  you 
can  achieve  your  ideal . 

That  vision  of  the  wine  really  changed  in  each  decade, 
so  that  as  I  look  back  on  the  wines  of  the  seventies  now,  I 
think  they  were  very  rustic  wines.   I  mean,  they  were  woody 
Chardonnays ,  herbaceous  Sauvignon  Blancs ,  and  astringent 
Cabernets.   [laughter]   The  decisions  that  were  taken  to  make 
those  wines  are  obviously  not  going  to  be  the  decisions  that 
we  would  make  now,  so  the  questions  have  to  be  reexamined  in 
the  light  of  new  standards.   I've  been  lucky  to  have  been 
here  for  a  while;  I  can  see  us  coming  around  and  asking  the 
same  questions  again.   But  it's  often  the  same  questions  set 
against  different  standards,  different  expectations, 
different  grape  material,  different  style  goals. 

Hicke:    How  do  the  goals  and  standards  change? 

Long:     In  the  early  seventies  you  had  an  inexperienced  group  of 

winemakers  and  an  inexperienced  group  of  wine  drinkers.   As 
time  went  one,  the  palate  of  both  the  consumer  and  the 
producer  have  developed.   We  spent  a  lot  of  time  in  the 
seventies  and  eighties- -myself  personally  and  we  as  an 
industry- -traveling  around  the  world  and  bringing  people  in 
from  other  parts  of  the  world,  tasting  wines  and  developing 
our  taste.   It  would  be  similar  to  someone  who  has  never 
heard  music,  hears  music  for  the  first  time,  and  then  listens 
to  music  and  considers  the  composition  and  the  way  music  is 
produced- -how  they  would  evolve  over  a  twenty-year  period. 
They  would  be  much  more  sensitive  to  the  nuance  and  to  the 
harmony,  the  balance,  the  style,  and  the  personality.   Well, 
the  same  thing  happened  with  wine.   I  think  the  tastes  of 
both  consumers  and  the  winemakers  became,  over  time,  with 


15 


this  attention  to  the  wine  on  a  world  stage,  much  more 
sophisticated. 

And  that's  still  happening.   I  interviewed  for  an 
assistant  winemaker  position  this  year,  and  one  of  the  things 
we  asked  candidates  to  do  was  to  bring  us  wines  that  they 
considered  to  be  great  wines  in  world  terms  and  to  pour  them 
and  talk  about  why  they  felt  they  were  great  in  world  terms. 
Certainly  in  my  experience  and  opinion,  some  of  those  people 
were  very  on- target,  and  some  were  way  off  target.   That  was 
very  important  to  me,  because  that  goes  back  to  where  a 
person's  head  is;  what  are  they  thinking?  The  biggest 
inhibitor  to  achievement  is  your  mind,  or  the  biggest 
enabler.   People  can  only  do  what  they  can  see.   You  were 
asking  why  Robert  Mondavi  could  do  all  these  things.   Well, 
he  could  see  them,  and  some  people  just  don't  see. 

In  a  very  general  way,  the  vision  of  California 
winemaking  has  evolved  and  expanded  and  become  refined  over 
the  last  twenty  years. 

Hicke:    It  is  artistry  in  a  sense,  and  also  it's  so  true  of  an 
artist- -that  an  artist  can  usually  see  much  more  than 
somebody  who  is  not  an  artist.   But  I'm  still  a  little  vague 
on- -for  instance,  the  taste  of  somebody  learning  about  music 
might  approach  that  of  Beethoven.   In  winemaking,  do  you  get 
closer  and  closer  to  Bordeaux  style,  or  is  there  something 
out  there  that  you  are  heading  for? 

Long:     I  think  that  in  any  art  or  craft  form  there  are  elements  of 
balance  and  harmony.   In  wines,  quality  in  my  opinion  is 
concerned  with  issues  of  complexity,  flavor  concentration  and 
length,  balance,  harmony- -that  is,  the  whole  internal  harmony 
of  the  wine,  how  the  smell  of  the  wine  relates  to  the  taste 
of  the  wine,  the  internal  components  of  taste,  the  acidity, 
the  flavor  concentration,  and  the  tannin  structure.   So 
balance  and  harmony,  length,  complexity,  structure,  ability 
to  age  and  develop- -and  these  characteristics  can  be  applied 
to  any  wine  in  any  country  of  any  variety.   The  particular 
personality  that  the  grape  gives  is  a  flavor  profile  that's 
different  with  Riesling,  Chardonnay,  and  Cabernet,  and  it's 
different  with  Cabernet  in  Bordeaux  and  Cabernet  in 
California.   But  those  flavor  profiles  can  still  be  expressed 
with  complexity,  balance,  and  harmony. 

Hicke:    So  they're  objective  standards,  not  just  subjective? 


16 


Long:     Well,  they're  subjectively  objective.   We  talk  about  that  in 
terms  of  difference  of  style  and  quality.   There  are  certain 
issues  of  quality  that  we  think  are  transcendent,  and  you  can 
have  differing  styles  and  differing  personalities  and  still 
maintain  those  quality  levels. 

Hicke:    That  enables  you  to  work  with  different  varieties  of  grapes 
and  different  years . 

Long:     And  different  places.   When  we  taste  here  at  Simi,  we're 
always  seeking  wines  that  we  think  are  great  wines,  wines 
that  exhibit  at  a  particular  time  those  characteristics. 
There  are  vineyards  in  the  world  that  are  known  to  do  a 
better  job  of  consistently  expressing  a  very  high  level  of 
these  transcendent  quality  values. 

It's  different  from  trying  to  make  one  wine  like 
another  one.   Even  in  people --you  could  see  someone  who  you 
think  was  educated  and  sensitive  and  worked  well  with  people, 
and  you  could  say,  "I'd  like  to  have  those  characteristics." 
You  could  think  about  achieving  some  of  them  and  still  being 
yourself.   You  can  pretty  easily  conceptually  separate  the 
sense  of  personality  and  quality  in  wine. 

Hicke:    That's  a  good  explanation. 


Becoming  Head  Enologist:   1972 

Hicke:    Getting  back  to  the  seventies,  in  '72  you  became  head 
enologist . 

Long:     Yes,  Mike  Grgich  left.   Robert  Mondavi  had  retained  a 

consultant,  Karl  Werner,  who  was  a  German.   To  the  best  of  my 
recollection,  Karl  came  in  '71.   Mike  left  to  go  to  Chateau 
Montelena  and  to  become  the  winemaker  there.   Karl  had 
evidently  recommended  that  I  be  promoted  into  Mike  Grgich 's 
position  of  enologist.   You  know,  I'm  not  honestly  sure 
whether  it  was  '72  or  73.   Mike  Grgich  might  be  able  to  tell, 
because  it  was  completely  tied  into  his  transition.   I  don't 
remember  if  his  first  vintage  at  Chateau  Montelena  was  '72  or 
'73. 

So  that  transition  occurred,  and  I  took  over  the 
winemaking.   Karl  was  there,  if  I  recall,  for  a  couple  of 


17 


vintages.   His  area  of  expertise  was  white  wines, 
particularly  Rieslings.   He  also  had  a  long  experience  of 
winemaking,  and  he  was  a  good  consultant  for  me.   I  was  still 
fairly  young  and  green  at  the  time . 

Hicke:    What  kinds  of  things  did  you  learn  from  him? 

Long:     All  through  that  time,  the  thread  through  the  early  seventies 
was  Robert  Mondavi  with  general  style  directions  and 
participation  at  the  tastings.   What  I  learned  from  Mike 
Grgich--!  always  felt  that  Mike  instilled  me  with  basic 
winemaking  principles,  so  I  learned  my  basic  winemaking  from 
him.   Karl  provided  me,  at  a  time  when  I  had  really  been 
there  for  a  short  period  of  time  and  was  then  moved  fairly 
quickly  into  a  highly  responsible  position,  with  someone  I 
could  go  to  in  a  very  specific  situation  and  say,  "This  looks 
like  a  difficult  situation.   Here 're  the  alternatives.   Do 
you  have  any  input  you'd  like  to  give  me?"   So  I  would  say 
more  than  anything  he  supplied  some  professional,  experienced 
input . 


Hicke:    That  was  a  lot  of  responsibility. 

Long:     Yes,  it  was.   [laughs]   Although,  you  know,  I  really  didn't 
think  about  it  at  the  time.   You  know  how  it  is;  you  just 
sort  of --it  was  such  an  exciting  business.   It  was  really 
fascinating,  totally  fascinating.   There  really  wasn't  time 
to  worry  about  things ,  because  we  were  so  busy  trying  to  take 
care  of  an  ever- increasing  amount  of  wine  and  address  all 
these  issues  of  quality  in  winemaking,  and  go  through 
organizational  change  and  expansion.   We  were  just  on  the  go. 

Hicke :    What  was  the  reason  for  this  enormous  growth? 

Long:     I  think  it  was  intrinsic  in  the  industry  at  that  time.   It 

would  be  interesting  to  go  back- -I  haven't  done  it  recently- - 
and  just  look  at  the  grape  acreage  growth  and  the  numbers  of 
wineries.   When  I  first  started  in  the  Napa  Valley,  there 
were  very  few  wineries  and  not  a  lot  of  grape  acres.   So  the 
basic  reason  was  the  consumer  out  there  who  really  wanted  to 
learn  to  drink  wine  and  was  excited  about  it.   I  think  at  the 
same  time  there  was  the  beginning  of  intrigue  with  food  and 
the  quality  of  food,  new  restaurants,  disposable  income, 
travel,  and  wine  as  a  measure  of  sophistication.   Wine  just 
grabbed  other  people  like  it  grabbed  me:   "This  is  really 
fascinating. " 


18 


That  was  what  supported  the  growth  at  Mondavi, 
particularly  that  the  wine  quality  was  very  good,  the  quality 
goals  were  high,  and  the  marketing  and  sales  energy  were  very 
successful;  the  wines  had  good  publicity. 

Hicke:    What  were  some  of  your  biggest  challenges? 

Long:     I  think  really  the  organizational  challenges  were  the  biggest 
challenge.   For  example,  in  1973  Robert  Mondavi  saw  that 
there  was  a  lot  of  Zinfandel  in  Lodi  available  for  purchase, 
and  he  decided  to  purchase  a  lot  of  it.   I  think  it  was 
within  a  month  of  harvest.   He  had  committed  to  a  level  of 
tonnage  that  was  larger  than  we  could  actually  store  at  the 
winery,  so  we  had  to  find  other  storage  facilities  and 
prepare  them  to  receive  the  wine- -just  the  sheer  logistics  of 
doing  that.   There  were  always  these  organizational  changes 
that  went  on,  just  every  year,  that  demanded  that  we  both 
improve  quality  and  address  these  issues  of  growth  and 
organizational  change.   That  was  the  core  of  the  job;  that 
was  the  biggest  challenge. 

Hicke:    Did  you  have  to  hire  people? 


Long:     Oh,  yes.   Our  winery  staff  grew.   When  I  started  in  1970, 

there  were  two  of  us,  Mike  Grgich  and  myself.   By  the  time  I 
left,  there  were  in  the  winemaking  department  probably  five 
enologists,  a  laboratory  staff  of  five,  and  an  experimental 
department  of  three  people.   There  was  constantly  growing 
staff. 

Hicke:    You  had  to  find  space  for  the  people  as  well? 

Long:     Oh,  yes,  there  was  physical  growth.   We  had  to  find  space  for 
people,  space  for  wines.   During  that  time  period  the  winery 
outgrew  its  ability  to  barrel-age  the  wine,  so  barrel  cellars 
were  developed  in  Napa.   I  think  by  the  time  I  left  there 
were  probably  fifteen  thousand  barrels,  and  when  I  first  came 
there  were  probably  three  hundred. 

Hicke:    What  about  technology?  Did  you  have  to  start  with  computers 
about  that  time? 

Long:     We  did.   Sometime  in  the  mid- seventies  we  started  working 
with  IBM.   They  had  what  they  called  a  process  control 
computer,  and  they  were  interested  in  what  processes  in  the 
winery  they  could  control,  which  in  fact  were  very  few.   But 


19 


we  did  develop  a  system  to  monitor  and  control  fermentation 
temperatures.   We  worked  on  other  systems,  but  that  was  the 
only  thing  that  really  became  applicable.   In  fact,  a  lot  of 
time  was  spent  on  that  function,  which  I  think  was  not 
particularly  productive. 


Centrifuging 


Hicke:    You  talked  a  little  bit  about  centrifuge;  that  was  something 
new  at  that  time? 

Long:     Right.   We  went  through  changes  in  pressing.   I  worked  with 
three  or  four  different  kinds  of  presses.   Nineteen  seventy 
was  the  first  year  they  tested  the  centrifuges,  and  through 
the  seventies  they  were  the  primary  means  of  clarification, 
although  decanters,  which  are  another  form  of  centrifuge, 
were  used  towards  the  end  of  the  seventies.   I  think  in  the 
early  seventies  there  was  this  equipment  fascination:   "What 
can  presses,  centrifuges,  filters,  tanks,  do  for  us?"  As  we 
worked  through  some  of  those  questions  and  became  more 
sensitive  to  quality  issues,  we  were  looking  to  a  way  to  use 
these  pieces  of  equipment  as  a  positive  tool  without  over 
using  them. 

For  example,  when  I  came  to  Simi  I  didn't  really  want 
to  centrifuge  all  of  our  juice.   What  I  wanted  to  do  was  to 
let  it  settle  naturally  by  gravity  and  then  use  the 
centrifuge  as  a  backup  tool.   If  there  was  a  particular 
condition  of  the  skins  where  they  didn't  settle,  or  we  had  a 
lot  of  grapes  coming  in  in  a  very  short  period  of  time  and 
there  wasn't  time  for  everything  to  settle,  the  centrifuge 
could  get  us  through  a  difficult  period.   But  it  was  really 
sort  of  an  aid  rather  than  an  integral  part  of  every  wine. 

Hicke:    Is  that  just  because  moving  the  juice  around  makes  it  that 
much  more  subject  to  changes? 

Long:     Wine  is  really  sensitive.   I  believe  that  the  more  you 
accomplish  up  front,  in  a  natural  way,  with  the  wine  to 
better  the  wine- -as  the  time  has  gone  by,  that  would  mean 
moving  clear  back  into  the  vineyard  and  saying,  "What  can  we 
accomplish  in  terms  of  grape  ripeness,  condition,  and  balance 
in  the  vineyard  first  that  will  minimize  any  special  handling 
that  we  have  to  do  in  the  winery?   Then  if  we  need  to  do 


20 


something  in  the  winery,  what  can  we  do  right  at  the 
beginning  before  the  fermentation?" 

We  were  looking  at  acid  adjustments  in  the  case  that 
the  grapes  were  low  in  acid.   Acid  used  to  be  adjusted  toward 
the  end  of  the  winemaking  process,  and  we've  moved  it  up  to 
the  beginning  of  the  winemaking  process  when  you  have  juice, 
which  is  less  sensitive  than  wine.   The  ideal  now  is  to 
achieve  the  acid  balance  we  want  in  the  vineyard  before  the 
grapes  are  harvested. 

People  see  it  as  a  more  natural  handling  of  the  wine;  I 
see  it  as  just  kind  of  a  natural  development  of  the  skill  of 
the  winemakers ,  more  experienced,  intuitive  sense  about  what 
is  the  best  thing  to  do  with  each  wine.   I  would  say  that  one 
of  the  basic  principles  of  winemaking  that  I  was  taught  by 
Mike  Grgich  was  that  the  less  you  do  with  the  wine  the 
better;  wine  is  really  sensitive. 

Hicke:    That's  standing  behind  this  last  little  bit  that  you've  told 
me,  that  if  you've  got  it  in  the  grape,  and  you  don't  mess 
with  the  grape- - 


Cooperage 


Hicke:    Barrel  fermentation  and  care  of  the  barrels  you  talked  a 
little  bit  about  with  Margrit  [Biever  Mondavi].   Was  that 
important? 

Long:     Yes.  There  were  three  important  aspects  of  barrels.   One  was 
selection  of  barrels,  one  was  their  care,  and  one  was  the  use 
of  them.   We  experimented  with  use  for  fermentation  with 
Chardonnay--the  amount  of  new  oak,  the  length  of  aging  with 
any  variety.   We  also  learned  a  lot  about  how  barrels  are 
made  and  began  to  appreciate  that  the  manufacturing  style  of 
the  barrels  would  have  a  tremendous  impact  on  the  wine.   How 
do  you  understand  that,  and  how  do  you  take  that  into  account 
in  the  winemaking?  During  that  time  period  we  experimented 
with  many  different  kinds  of  oaks- -American  oak  and  French 
oak  from  different  forests- -and  we  came  to  appreciate  the 
kind  of  oak,  the  kind  of  seasoning  the  oak  had  had  before  it 
was  made  into  a  barrel,  the  technique  of  barrel -making,  and 
the  fact  that  all  of  those  impacted  the  wine  in  some  way. 


21 


We  put  a  lot  of  attention  into  just  caring  for  the 
barrels,  keeping  them  clean  and  fresh.   That's  a  basic.   If 
you  don't  have  good,  clean,  fresh  barrels,  you  can't  make 
good  wine.   Yet  it  took  a  long  time  to  develop  a  really  good 
system  for  keeping  barrels  in  good  condition  when  you're 
handling  thousands  and  thousands  of  barrels.   That  was 
certainly  as  much  the  work  of  our  cellarmaster  at  Robert 
Mondavi  as  myself,  but  it  was  a  big  concern  of  myself  because 
the  barrel  care  impacted  the  wines. 

It's  interesting  about  the  industry  —  I  think  most 
people  have  a  good  system  for  taking  care  of  barrels  now,  and 
you  don't  hear  them  say  much  about  it.   But  when  you  go  in  to 
talk  to  a  group  of  people  who  are  new  to  using  barrels, 
that's  the  first  thing  you  talk  about- -how  you  take  care  of 
your  barrels.   If  you  don't  take  good  care  of  your  barrels, 
nothing  else  matters.   It  doesn't  matter  what  kind  of  wood, 
what  kind  of  cooper,  what  kind  of  wine;  nothing  else  matters. 
So  that's  the  beginning. 

In  the  1990s,  the  questions  about  barrels  have  been 
refined.   There  has  been  better  understanding  of  some  of  the 
coopering  techniques,  and  some  of  the  nuances  in  coopering 
techniques  are  better  appreciated.   There  has  also  been  a 
development,  which  I  think  is  really  accurate,  of  the  sense 
that  the  cooper  is  essentially  like  a  winemaker.   The  cooper 
is  selecting  the  wood,  aging  the  wood,  and  developing  the 
technique  to  bring  that  wood  together  in  a  barrel.   All  of 
those  decisions,  of  which  there  are  many,  result  in  a  barrel 
from  the  cooper  that  tends  to  have  its  own  personality.   So 
we  tend  to  find  an  association  of  personality  around  a 
cooper,  just  like  you'd  find  a  style  or  personality  of  wine 
around  a  wine . 

So  winemakers  are  now  thinking,  "Which  variety  works 
with  which  cooper?"  But  they're  going  beyond  that  and 
thinking,  "Which  vineyard--" 


Long:     They  think  about  the  barrel  from  a  cooper  as  having  its 

particular  personality,  and  they're  seeking  to  match  that 
personality  with  a  particular  wine  or  a  particular  vineyard. 

To  come  back  to  the  questions  of  the  nineties,  they 
will  be,  "This  Chardonnay- -in  this  vineyard  site,  in  this 


22 


vintage,  with  this  certain  style  goal- -needs  barrels  from 
which  cooperage?"   That's  how  it  will  be. 

Hicke:    [chuckles]  Will  the  coopers  start  signing  their  barrels? 

Long:     The  barrels  are  an  enormously  important  and  expensive  part  of 
our  winemaking  technique ,  and  of  the  wines .   They  give 
complexity,  structure,  longevity,  and  flavor. 

Hicke:    When  you  talk  about  the  technique  of  making  barrels,  do  you 
mean  things  like  how  tightly  the  staves  are  fitted  together? 

Long:     It  can  be  the  shape  of  the  barrel,  the  thickness  of  the 
staves,  the  way  the  wood  was  aged  after  it  was  cut  into 
planks  and  before  it  was  cut  into  staves,  how  it  was 
seasoned,  the  conditions  under  which  it  was  seasoned.   Then 
what  is  the  shape  of  the  barrel,  what  is  the  thickness  of  the 
stave,  how  are  those  staves  bent  to  conform  to  a  barrel,  and 
how  is  the  inside  treated?  Just  to  give  you  an  example  that 
we  found  at  Simi,  there's  barrel  called  an  export  barrel  that 
is  a  thicker-walled  barrel  than  what  they  call  a  chateau 
barrel,  which  is  the  barrel  they  use  locally  in  Bordeaux  and 
which  is  thinner-walled.   You  put  the  same  wine  in  both  of 
those  for  a  year  and  a  half,  and  the  wines  are  different. 
The  thickness  of  the  stave  of  the  barrel  has  an  impact  on  the 
wine. 

Hicke:    The  oxygen? 

Long:     Presumably.   Another  thing  is  that,  for  example,  in  Burgundy 
the  barrels  traditionally  are  shorter  and  rounder,  so  to  get 
the  bend  of  the  staves  they  have  to  spend  more  time  over  a 
fire.   The  inside  of  the  staves  generally  have  a  kind  of  a 
toasted  look  to  them;  instead  of  a  nice,  light,  oak  color, 
they  would  be  like  bread  in  a  toaster- -kind  of  light  brown. 
That  difference  affects  the  flavor  of  the  wine. 

There  are  many  different  ways  to  achieve  that  barrel 
shape.   Some  people  dip  the  barrel  in  hot  water  and  then  fire 
it;  some  people  use  steam  and  fire;  some  people  cover  the 
barrel  with  a  lid  while  they're  firing  it;  some  people  use  a 
small,  hot  fire;  some  people  use  a  larger,  cool  burning. 
It's  just  incredible,  the  nuances,  and  what  we  found  is  that 
they  all  have  an  impact  on  the  wine. 

Hicke:    How  many  different  kinds  of  barrels  do  you  have  here  now? 


23 


Long:     I  think  every  winery  operates  in  the  same  way.   Our  system 
has  been  to  work  with  some  coopers  that  we  really  like  and 
whose  barrels  really  seem  to  go  well  with  our  vineyards  and 
our  wine  personality. 

Hicke:    Are  they  local? 

Long:     No,  they're  European  coopers.   Our  Chardonnay  barrels  are 
made  primarily  by  Francois  Frere  in  Burgundy. 

Hicke:    I  saw  that  name  on  the  barrels;  they  really  are  signed! 

Long:     Yes,  they  are.   The  barrels  for  Cabernet  are  primarily  from 
the  Taransaud  cooperage  in  Cognac.   We  are  constantly  trying 
other  barrels;  I  think  we  have  probably  eight  or  ten  other 
barrel  sources,  and  we  may  have  anywhere  from  two  to  a 
hundred  barrels  from  each  source.   It's  a  never-ending 
investigation. 

Hicke:    Yes,  there  are  infinite  numbers  of  combinations. 

Long:     Through  trial  and  error  we  have  established  our  main 

suppliers  of  barrels  that  work  well  for  us  for  our  vineyards 
and  our  wine  style,  and  then  we  bring  in  other  coopers  to 
investigate  [new  possibilities].   We  think  they  add 
complexity  and  keep  a  good  frame  of  reference  for  the  people 
we  are  using. 


Vineyards  and  Grapes 

Hicke:    You  were  head  enologist  at  Mondavi  for  seven  years? 
Long:     Yes,  until  I  left  in  1979,  right  around  harvest. 

Hicke:    Is  there  anything  else  about  those  years  that  we  should  be 
sure  to  discuss? 

Long:     I  think  we've  talked  about  the  tenor  of  those  years,  the 

change,  the  experimentation,  the  growth,  the  opportunity  to 
work  with  grapes.   Bob  Mondavi  brought  grapes  up  from  Santa 
Maria,  grapes  down  from  Washington,  so  there  was  opportunity 
to  work  with  a  real  diversity.   I  spent  more  time  in  the 
latter  part  of  those  years  in  the  vineyards,  just  so  I  could 
visualize  each  vineyard  we  were  making  wines  from.   About  the 


24 


end  of  that  time  period  I  came  to  believe  that  we  really  had 
to  know  more  about  the  vineyards;  that  we  had  appropriately 
addressed  the  winery  questions,  and  we  needed  to  really  start 
developing  vineyard  questions.   In  that  time  period  there  was 
very  little  of  that,  very  little. 

Another  thing  in  those  years  which  epitomizes  that  was 
our  way  of  paying  for  grapes.   We  had  a  pretty  intricate 
system  of  Brix  payment,  that  is,  the  sugar  analysis  of  the 
grapes,  and  a  payment  relative  to  the  Brix  level.   There 
would  be  some  minimum  Brix,  and  at  the  next  highest  sugar 
level  there  would  be  an  increase  in  payment.   Some  sugar 
level  would  be  a  maximum,  and  then  it  would  decline  again. 
It  was  a  system  that  in  essence  said,  "The  sugar  is  the  most 
important  thing  in  the  grape."  The  other  thing  I  saw  in  that 
system,  particularly  when  I  first  came  to  Simi,  was  that  it 
was  a  bad  system  [laughs],  because  it  wasn't  really  true;  the 
sugar  wasn't  the  most  important  thing.   You  couldn't  really 
say  that  every  vineyard  of  Cabernet,  for  example,  would  be  at 
its  perfect  peak  of  ripeness  between  23.5  and  24.5. 

That  period  of  the  seventies  was  still  for  everyone  a 
period  of  growing  grapes  and  making  wine,  so  you  had  two 
different  businesses;  the  end  product  of  one  was  grapes,  and 
the  end  product  of  the  other  was  the  wine,  and  there  was  the 
transfer  in  the  middle.   That  was  an  important  characteristic 
of  those  years ,  and  by  the  end  of  the  seventies  there  was 
really  a  need  for  change. 

Hicke:    So  presumably  you  made  that  change  when  you  came  to  Simi? 

Long:     At  Mondavi  my  responsibilities  were  not  viticultural ;  I 
didn't  purchase  the  grapes,  I  didn't  even  make 
recommendations  for  what  grapes  to  purchase.   But  basically 
out  of  my  own  volition,  I  did  spend  time  with  the  grape  buyer 
and  saw  the  vineyards  that  we  were  getting  grapes  from.   When 
I  came  to  Simi,  I  immediately  had  responsibilities  for  grape 
purchase . 

Just  to  go  back  to  the  seventies,  I  think  there  are  a 
lot  more  things  that  could  be  said  about  that  period,  but  I 
think  if  you  look  at  it  in  a  very  general,  evolutionary 
sense,  I  think  I've  covered  most  of  it.   There  are  some  more 
specific  things,  which  I  addressed  in  my  book  about  the 
winery. 


25 


HIcke:    What  I'm  asking  you  is  for  the  kinds  of  things  that  you  put 
into  it  and  got  out  of  it,  from  your  viewpoint,  and  you've 
told  me  quite  a  lot  of  that. 


Winemaking  Decisions 


Long:     I'm  still  thinking  about  what  could  be  mentioned  about  the 
period  of  the  seventies  for  me.   In  that  time  period  there 
was  even  an  evolution  of  varieties  going  on.   When  I  first 
came  into  the  winery,  we  were  taking  a  lot  of  varieties -- 
Mondeuse,  Mataro,  Carignane,  French  Colombard- -that  were 
necessary  to  get  the  Chardonnay  and  Cabernet  that  we  needed. 
We  were  making  Sylvaner,  Zinfandel,  and  eight  or  nine 
different  kinds  of  wines,  and  as  we  went  through  that  decade, 
we  really  narrowed  the  kinds  of  wines  that  we  were  making. 
There  were  more  and  more  grapes  that  became  available  for  the 
kinds  of  wines  that  we  wanted  to  make. 


There  were  enormous  changes  in  the  actual  winemaking 
process.   One  of  the  things  we  really  didn't  talk  about  in 
any  great  detail- -the  Cabernet  winemaking,  Chardonnay 
winemaking,  Riesling  winemaking,  I  think  particularly  in 
those  varieties  there  was  a  tremendous  evolution  in  the 
winemaking  techniques.   We  talked  about  the  equipment,  about 
the  barrels,  and  about  some  of  the  research,  but  those  were 
all  accessory  to  the  central  theme,  which  was  each  year, 
looking  at  each  varietal,  and  saying,  "How  are  we  going  to 
make  Chardonnay  this  year?   What  do  we  think  are  the  critical 
issues?" 

I  just  want  to  come  back  to  this.   The  flow  is  really, 
"What  is  it  that  we  are  trying  to  accomplish,  and  how  does 
that  evolve  over  time  as  far  as  wine  style  and  quality?"   And 
then,  "What  are  we  really  going  to  do  this  year,  and  what  are 
the  sorts  of  activities  that  fall  out  from  that?"  The 
fallout  might  be  research  work,  small  lot  work,  trying  new 
barrels,  trying  a  new  press.   Again,  all  that  stuff  is  tools, 
and  the  core,  the  theme,  is  the  wine  itself  and  the  decisions 
you  make . 

The  other  thread  that  went  through  the  seventies  for  me 
personally  was  just  an  evolution  in  my  palate  and  my  own 


26 


evolution  of  thinking  what  the  vision  of  the  wines  should  be. 
In  a  sense,  when  I  came  to  Simi  I  had  a  pretty  well -formed 
vision  of  Cabernet  and  Chardonnay  that  integrated  a  lot  of  my 
experiences .   We  did  some  really  wonderful  things  with 
Riesling  in  that  time  period- -developed  some  new  styles  of 
Riesling  that  of  course  I  didn't  bring  over  here,  because  we 
weren't  making  Riesling  at  Simi. 

Hicke:    How  were  those  decisions  made  as  you  came  in,  as  you  looked 
at  what  you  wanted  to  do? 

Long:     Except  in  the  very  early  years,  there  were  usually  three  or 
four  people  working  all  together,  enologists.   There  was  a 
pretty  collegial  atmosphere  of  winemaking,  and  I  was  the 
leader.   It  was  really  my  responsibility  to  identify  what  I 
thought  were  the  critical  tasting  decisions  and  to  get  the 
family  involved  in  those.   The  family  in  the  early  years  was 
Robert  Mondavi,  and  in  the  later  years  it  was  Tim  Mondavi. 

Hicke:    Just  to  make  it  very  specific,  you  would  come  in  and  say,  for 
instance,  "This  year  we  need  to  age  the  Chardonnay  a  little 
longer  because  of  such  and  such"? 

Long:     No,  it's  not  that  way  at  all.   First  of  all,  your  assessment 
of  your  wines  and  the  process  is  continuous;  it's  constantly 
going  on.   There  would  be  some  point  during  the  year  prior  to 
the  next  harvest  where  you  would  sit  down  with  the  people  who 
were  the  primary  people  in  the  enology  department  and  say, 
"Okay,  based  on  everything  we've  heard,  all  the  input --your 
opinions,  the  family  opinions- -what  do  we  think  are  the 
issues  with  Chardonnay  that  we'd  really  like  to  address? 
Where  can  we  improve?  Where  can  we  evolve?  Let's  talk  about 
those,  and  let's  talk  through  this  process- -through  this 
winemaking  for  this  grape- -and  see  what  we  think  are  critical 
issues  or  new  issues,  and  let's  design  some  experiments,  or 
let's  recommend  a  new  piece  of  equipment.   Let's  go  and  try 
something  in  the  vineyard."   It's  a  time  when  you  bring  out 
all  of  this  stuff  that's  fermenting  in  your  head  and  put  it 
on  the  table,  look  at  it,  and  draw  up  a  game  plan  for  the 
next  year.   That's  the  game  plan,  and  that's  related  to 
certain  quality  and  style  goals. 

Hicke:    What  about  marketing  information? 

Long:     Actually,  that's  something  that  I  wasn't  much  involved  in. 

There  was  some  decision  to  make  a  certain  amount  of  wine,  and 
that  was  transferred  to  the  grape  buyer  who  bought  those 


27 


grapes.   It  was  my  job  to  receive  them  and  to  make  the  wine. 


The  game  plan  is  then  turned  into  a  specific  set  of 
actions  every  day.   Every  day  you  have  grapes  coming  in 
during  harvest.   There's  the  decision  to  harvest,  and  then 
how  are  you  going  to  handle  those  grapes  from  the  time  they 
appear  on  the  scales  to  the  time  that  they're  shipped  out  of 
the  warehouse  in  a  case?   The  handling  is  related  to  this 
general  game  plan,  but  it's  always  being  fine  tuned  to  any 
particular  circumstance  at  any  particular  moment. 

I've  never  been  a  teacher,  but  I  can  envision  that  it 
might  be  the  same  if  you  were  a  teacher.   You  are  assigned  a 
certain  game  plan  for  a  semester,  and  you  need  to  cover  this 
material.   Let's  say  you  are  pretty  happy  with  what  you  have 
been  doing,  but  you  want  to  maybe  achieve  something  slightly 
different  with  this  class,  so  you're  going  to  modify  your 
teaching  a  little  bit  and  employ  some  new  techniques.   Then 
the  class  arrives,  and  you  may  completely  change  what  you're 
doing  or  modify  your  plan,  or  you  may  modify  it  for 
particular  people.   It's  the  same  thing  with  the  grapes. 

Hicke:    That's  a  good  analogy.   You  respond  to  the  conditions  as  well 
as  to  your  game  plan. 

Long:     Exactly  right.   You  are  absolutely  responsive  on  a  minute-by- 
minute  basis. 

There  are  two  more  things  before  I  go  into  the 
eighties.   I  was  able  in  the  seventies  to  go  to  Europe.   In 
1973  my  husband  and  I  went  to  Germany  with  Karl  Werner  and 
really  looked  at  the  German  wine  industry.   In  1976  I  went  to 
Germany  and  France  with  Andre  Tchelistcheff  and  a  group  of 
winemakers  and  visited  Burgundy,  Bordeaux,  and  Champagne. 
Then  in  1978  Robert  Mondavi  made  his  first  big  trip  to  take 
his  staff  with  him,  and  again  we  visited  Burgundy,  Bordeaux, 
and  Champagne  and  Germany.   In  1979  my  husband  and  I  and  some 
friends  spent  a  week  in  Burgundy.   So  in  that  decade  I  had 
substantive  international  experience,  and  that  was  very 
important  to  my  own  basic  development,  contribution,  and 
concepts. 

The  other  thing  that's  really  important  is  this 
development  of  your  palate- -this  combination  of  what  you 
think  you  want  to  create  and  your  ability  to  taste  if  you  are 
really  doing  that  or  not. 


28 


Those  are  core  issues,  whether  we  are  talking  about 
seventies,  eighties,  or  nineties:   the  vision  of  style  and 
quality,  the  ability  to  perceive  that  and  taste  that,  and 
then  the  ability  to  bring  together  the  techniques- -the 
people,  the  equipment,  the  grapes,  and  the  process  to  create 
that  wine . 

When  I  came  to  Simi,  I  think  it  was  a  really  good  time 
for  me,  because  I  evolved;  these  concepts  that  I've  been 
telling  you  about  were  pretty  well  formed.   I  knew;  it  was 
easy  to  come  here,  and  it  was  clear  what  needed  to  be  done, 
given  the  goals  of  the  winery.   I  identified  the  crucial 
issues  as  the  winery  and  its  equipment,  which  are  your  tools; 
the  people  that  you  hire --the  staff  and  the  structure,  which 
are  ultimately  the  most  important;  the  grapes;  and  the 
winemaking  technique  and  process.   Winemaking  technique  and 
process  were  fairly  well  formed  for  me,  but  the  grapes  were  a 
big  question  mark  because  I  hadn't  been  active  in  grape 
acquisition. 

That  brings  us  into  the  next  decade. 

Hicke:    Let  me  back  up  and  ask  a  couple  of  things.   Was  the  stimulus 
for  the  change  in  the  grape  varieties  consumer  demand,  or  was 
it  the  winemakers? 

Long:     It  would  have  been  consumer  demand.   It's  ultimately 

economics.   People  who  grow  grapes  will  grow  what  sells  the 
best  for  the  highest  profit,  and  that's  going  to  be  whatever 
grape  it  is  that  the  consumers  are  looking  for  out  there  in 
the  market.   For  the  most  part,  in  the  last  twenty  years 
that's  been  Chardonnay  more  than  any  other  grape. 


29 


III    MOVING  TO  SIMI 


Deciding  to  Join  Simi 


Hicke:   How  did  you  hear  about  Simi,  and  how  did  they  hear  about  you? 

Long:    I  first  heard  about  Simi  through  a  friend  I  met  in  1976  when  I 
went  on  this  European  trip  with  Andre  Tchelistcheff .   I  met 
Mary  Ann  Graf,  whom  I  had  heard  of  for  many  years,  because  she 
was  known  to  be  the  first  woman  who  had  graduated  from  the 
enology  department  at  UC  Davis.   Although  I  had  known  of  her, 
I  hadn't  really  met  her  until  this  trip,  and  we  became  very 
good  friends.   She  was  the  winemaker  here  at  Simi  from  '72  or 
'73,  and  she  had  left  Simi  in  early  1979.   I  was  aware  of 
that,  and  that  was  about  all,  without  giving  much  thought  to 
it. 

Then  I  was  approached  by  what  I  guess  you  would  call  a 
headhunter,  who  said  that  Simi  was  looking  for  a  winemaker  and 
that  they  had  plans  to  make  substantial  investment  in  the 
winery  and  to  change  and  evolve  the  wines .   They  were  looking 
for  someone  to  direct  that  program,  which  was  interesting  to 
me.   I  hadn't  worked  in  Sonoma  County,  and  although  Simi  was 
known  to  have  produced  some  good  Cabernets,  it  wasn't,  in  my 
perception  at  least,  an  active  winery  on  the  cutting  edge  in 
the  seventies.   But  what  he  was  describing  was  interesting 
enough  to  consider  it. 

That  was  how  it  happened,  with  this  opening  discussion 
and  the  description  of  an  opportunity.   The  opportunity  that 
is  always  wonderful  for  any  winemaker  is  this  ability  to  bring 
all  the  elements  together.   At  Mondavi  my  focus  had  been 
primarily  the  winemaking,  so  here  was  an  opportunity  to  bring 


30 


together  the  grapes  and  the  winemaking  process ,  the  people  who 
were  involved  in  it,  and  the  equipment,  and  they  were  talking 
about  building  a  new  winery  and  a  new  cellar  and  so  on  and  so 
forth.   That  was  a  very  seductive  thing  to  consider, 
naturally,  for  any  winemaker. 

In  the  course  of  talking  about  it,  it  sounded  like  a 
really  good  opportunity.   Those  kinds  of  opportunities  in  our 
business  have  traditionally  also  been  risks,  because  it  takes 
a  tremendous  amount  of  capital  to  do  those  kinds  of  things. 
Many  times  individuals  with  really  good  intentions  as  winery 
owners  or  managers  but  without  a  realistic  grasp  of  the 
investment,  you  know,  lay  out  a  set  of  plans  and  expectations 
and  are  not  able  to  carry  them  through.   That  was  the  risk 
that  I  was  taking. 

Hicke:   After  you  talked  to  the  headhunter,  whom  did  you  talk  to? 

Long:    Michael  Dixon,  who  was  the  president  of  Simi,  and  after  that 
the  members  of  his  board  of  directors.   That  happened  over  a 
period  of  probably  four  to  six  weeks;  there  was  a  fair  amount 
of  time  to  think  about  that  and  consider  it.   Then  I  took  the 
job. 

Hicke:   Do  you  know  what  it  was  about  you  that  they  particularly 
wanted? 


Long:    I  know  in  retrospect  that  they  were  looking  at  several 

different  people.   It  was  my  understanding  that  they  were 
basically  setting  out  in  a  new  direction  with  a  big 
investment,  and  they  were  looking  for  somebody  who  could 
manage  that  direction- -set  the  direction  and  manage  the 
investment.   I  figured  I  was  of  interest  to  them  because  I  had 
had  ten  years  of  just  constant  new  direction/new  investment 
and  every  kind  of  experience  one  could  have  in  the  wine 
industry,  in  a  winery  producing  outstanding  wines  with  a  great 
reputation.   In  my  mind  it  was  simply  whether  I  wanted  the  job 
or  not.   [laughter]   It  never  occurred  to  me  that  I  wouldn't 
be  the  best  candidate- -never .   It  was  just  never  my  thinking. 
My  thinking  was  really  always  focused  on,  "Is  this  what  I 
really  want  to  do?" 

Hicke:   Do  you  remember  somebody  calling  you  up  and  saying,  "Do  you 
want  the  job?   Can  you  start  tomorrow?" 


31 


Long:    I  really  don't.   I  think  those  kinds  of  things  evolve.   You 
interview  a  group  of  people ,  you  narrow  down  to  the  ones  you 
like,  and  you  talk  to  them  some  more.   It  seemed  pretty 
natural . 


Simi  Winery  in  1979 

Hicke:   Could  you  describe  the  winery  and  the  status  quo  here  when  you 
came? 

Long:    When  I  came  there  was  this  old  stone  building,  and  it  was  the 
only  building,  so  all  of  the  winemaking  functions- -the  tank 
fermentations,  the  barrel  fermentations,  the  barrel  aging,  the 
tank  storage- -were  taking  place  in  this  building.   Next  to  the 
building  on  the  west  side  was  a  large  area  that  had  been 
excavated  in  anticipation  of  building  a  new  fermenting  cellar. 
The  first  year  I  was  here,  the  fermentation  tanks  for  the  red 
wines  were  big,  open,  redwood  vats  that  held  about  forty  tons, 
and  some  stainless  steel  tanks.   Considering  that  they  were 
doing- -I  think  that  first  year  they  did  thirteen  or  fourteen 
hundred  tons --there  seemed  to  be  a  very  small  number  of  tanks 
to  receive  and  hold  that  tonnage. 

There  were  some  old  Vaslin  presses,  there  was  the 
warehouse,  and  that  was  pretty  much  the  physical  status.   I 
came  in  the  middle  of  harvest,  and  my  job  was  not  primarily  to 
run  harvest  but  to  do  the  planning  for  this  fermentation 
building  that  was  supposed  to  happen  the  next  year.   Andre 
Tchelistcheff ,  who  had  been  their  consultant,  was  here,  and  he 
was  running  harvest,  so  during  that  first  month  I  really 
turned  my  attention  to  the  plans . 


Simi  Winery 


Left:  Visitor  center  tasting 
room,  1991 


Below:  Visitor  center,  1991 


Photographs  by  Carole  Hicke 


32 


IV  GROWTH  AND  DEVELOPMENT  OF  THE  WINERY 


Equipment 


Long:    I  immediately  increased  the  size  of  the  building. 
Hicke :   Why  did  you  do  that? 

Long:    I  had  quite  a  bit  of  practice  at  Mondavi  in  gauging 

fermentation  space  needs.   As  we  had  expanded  our  crush,  I  had 
developed  some  very  good  systems  for  estimating  the  number  of 
gallons  of  additional  cooperage  that  we  were  going  to  need  to 
handle- -how  you  go  about  figuring  that  out.   I  laid  out  a 
fairly  complicated  set  of  assumptions  based  on  the  number  of 
tons  that  Michael  presented- -the  varieties,  the  expected 
delivery  dates- -and  just  developed  a  system  that  identified 
the  total  capacity  and  the  tank  size. 

Hicke:   They  were  just  going  by  guess  and  by  gosh? 

Long:    They  had  some  basis,  and  I  honestly  don't  remember  what  it 

was.   It  was  part  of  the  expectation  that  I  was  going  to  come 
in  and  look  at  all  of  this,  so  I  did.   We  very  quickly  hooked 
up  with  an  engineer  and  a  contractor  and  began  to  turn  these 
plans  into  an  actual  draft  with  floor  plans  and  drawings.   I 
spent  an  enormous  amount  of  time  on  the  plans .   The  building 
was  built  starting  in  the  late  spring  of  1980,  so  between  the 
time  I  cane  in  September  until  April  was  all  the  concept,  the 
specific  development,  the  ordering,  the  specification- -and  I 
had  to  specify  and  order  all  the  tanks,  hoses,  barrels,  pumps, 
presses,  and  so  on- -the  development  of  the  construction 
drawings,  a  lot  of  the  mechanical  engineering  details,  design 


33 


of  the  laboratory,  and  a  lot  of  things  that  aren't  very 
glamorous  . 


Long: 


Hicke : 


Long: 


Hicke : 


I  believe  that  in  a  winery  efficiency  is  quality.   At  the  time 
of  harvest  you  have  people  working  in  the  winery,  and  there 
are  only  so  many  hours  in  a  day,  and  there  is  only  so  much 
physical  energy.   What  you  want  your  people  to  do  is  to  turn 
that  physical  energy  to  the  things  in  the  winemaking  that  make 
a  difference  in  the  wine  quality.   For  example,  in  running  the 
press  you  want  them  to  be  concerned  about  how  the  press  is 
operating,  about  the  change  in  the  characteristic  of  the  juice 
as  it's  coming  out  of  the  press  and  how  they're  going  to 
respond  to  it  in  the  operation  of  the  press.   You  don't  want 
them  to  worry  about  whether  the  press  is  running  or  not  or  how 
they're  going  to  get  the  pomace  out  of  the  press.   It  goes 
back  to  the  barrel  care:   there  are  some  basics  that  you  have 
to  get  out  of  the  way  before  you  can  really  do  sophisticated 
winemaking. 

The  design  of  the  cellar  is  so  that  it  is  efficient: 
the  floors  drain,  there  is  enough  space  in  the  aisles  to  work, 
there  are  enough  places  to  plug  in  your  electrical  cords, 
there  is  hot  and  cold  water  at  all  the  right  places,  it's  safe 
to  work  there-  -all  of  those  things  that  make  it  physically 
flow  during  harvest.   Those  were  a  lot  of  the  issues  that  we 
were  addressing. 

It  sounds  like  it's  kind  of  like  learning  to  drive;  you  have 
to  fiddle  with  all  of  these  details  until  it  becomes  a  routine 
and  you  can  do  a  certain  amount  without  thinking. 

It's  not  that  different  from  designing  a  home.   Let  me  come 
back  to  the  design  process,  since  that's  what  I  was  doing  at 
the  time.   What  I  really  started  with,  in  working  on  the 
winery  design,  were  two  things:   what  were  the  kind  of  grapes 
and  the  volume  of  grapes  that  Michael  wanted  to  crush,  and  how 
did  I  think  we  should  be  making  the  wine?   So  the  actual 
winemaking  process-  -from  that  picture,  everything  else  flowed. 
The  number  of  tanks,  the  type,  the  size,  the  number  of 
barrels,  and  all  of  the  details  flowed  out  of  the  picture  of 
those  issues-  -how  to  make  the  wine,  and  how  much  wine  you're 
going  to  make. 


How  did  he  make  that  decision? 
whatever  he  wanted  to  make? 


How  did  he  come  up  with 


34 


Long:    He  didn't  address  himself  to  how  the  wine  should  be  made. 
Hicke:   No,  that  was  clearly  your-- 

Long:    He  would  have  been  doing  that  with  the  marketing- -with  the 
company  that  owned  Simi. 

Those  were  the  design  issues,  and  I  liken  it  again  to 
designing  a  house.   As  an  architect  will  tell  you,  the  right 
way  to  design  a  house  is  to  think  about  how  you  want  to  use 
it,  how  you  want  to  live  in  it,  what  it  wants  to  feel  like, 
what  are  the  functions  you  want  to  do.   Do  you  like  to  cook? 
What  do  you  have  in  your  kitchen?   How  do  you  want  to  work? 
Where  do  you  want  to  store  things?  When  you  answer  the  big 
questions,  then  the  details  fall  into  place.   But  a  house  is 
eminently  more  liveable  in  the  degree  of  details  you  have 
addressed.   Do  you  have  a  place  to  store  everything?   Is  it 
accessible?   Is  it  well  organized?  Just  so  many  of  those 
things,  and  the  winery  is  exactly  the  same  way. 

Once  we  had  established  what  to  make  and  how,  I  was 
working  on  the  practical  details  of  making  that  possible  in  a 
working  environment.   I  had  a  professional  associate,  Barbara 
Lindblom,  who  had  worked  for  me  as  lab  director  at  Robert 
Mondavi  and  then  left  to  go  to  Europe.   She  came  back  right 
about  the  time  I  was  doing  the  design,  and  I  hired  her  as  the 
lab  director.   She  did  the  specific  design  of  the  laboratory, 
because  the  laboratory  is  really  like  a  kitchen.   It's  an 
extraordinarily  complex  small  space. 

The  other  thing  that  was  a  benefit  at  Robert  Mondavi  was 
working  with  winery  design  engineers  enough  to  recognize  that 
they  really  don't  know  very  much  about  winemaking  processes, 
and  therefore  can't  be  counted  on  to  really  design  a 
functional  winery.   At  Simi  we  didn't  have  an  architect.   We 
had  an  engineer,  and  he  addressed  himself  to  structural  issues 
and  to  the  drawings- -pulling  the  whole  project  together  and 
creating  the  construction  drawings.   I  had  a  mechanical 
engineer  who  helped  me  work  through  all  the  electrical,  water, 
and  mechanical  systems.   There  was  also  refrigeration;  I  had 
to  figure  out  how  much  refrigeration  we  needed  and  then  select 
a  system  that  would  provide  that  refrigeration.   That  was  a 
big  investment. 

Hicke:   You  had  an  architect- -it  was  you. 


35 


Long:    Right,  and  it  wasn't  that  difficult.   I  had  a  tremendous 

amount  of  background  to  bring  to  bear  to  that  project.  It  was 
a  lot  of  things  to  do  in  a  short  period  of  time,  but  it  wasn't 
difficult. 

That  took  place  in  1980,  and  by  the  harvest  of  1980  we 
had  that  new  fermentation  cellar  complete  and  did  our  first 
harvest  there.   At  the  same  time  I  had  been  out  in  the 
vineyards  and  looking  at  the  grapes,  so  that  was  the  first 
year  I  was  really  able  to  pull  together  the  grapes  and  the 
winemaking.   That  was  a  year  where  we  had  new  grapes,  a  new 
building,  new  people,  and  new  techniques,  and  we  were  putting 
them  all  together.   It  was  really  exciting. 

Hicke:   Did  you  make  decisions  about  the  varietals  at  that  point,  or 
did  that  change  more  slowly? 

Long:    When  I  came  to  Simi  we  were  making  Gewurztraminer ,  Zinfandel, 
Camay  Beaujolais,  Pinot  Noir,  Cabernet,  Chardonnay,  Rose  of 
Cabernet,  and  Chenin  Blanc- -eight  varieties.   After  1979  what 
did  we  make?   I  can't  remember.   I  think  1980  was  the  last 
vintage  of  Gewurztraminer.   We  dropped  Camay  Beaujolais;  '79 
was  the  last  vintage  of  Camay  Beaujolais.   Zinfandel  we 
continued  through  1982,  and  Pinot  Noir  I  think  through  '81  or 
'83;  I  can't  remember. 

Certainly  in  that  time  period  there  was  a  lot  of 
discussion  about  varieties  and  which  ones  we  didn't  want  to 
continue,  and  in  that  time  period  we  picked  up  Sauvignon 
Blanc.   By  1983  we  had  rationalized  the  varieties  that  we  were 
producing. 

Hicke:   So  that  really  didn't  affect  the  kinds  of  equipment  or  the 
amount  of  space  you  needed?   Or  did  it? 

Long:    We  did  continue  to  change  the  physical  features  of  the  winery, 
as  you  always  do.   I  mean,  you  never  stop.   But  we  did  another 
big  project  in  1981;  we  renovated  this  stone  building.   We 
completely  took  the  cellar  out,  gutted  the  top  level,  put 
complete  new  floors  in  it,  and  did  a  lot  of  structural  change, 
again  with  structural  engineering  supervision,  to  make  the 
building  more  solid  and  to  make  it  more  space  effective.   It 
had  been  a  fermentation  and  aging  center,  but  it  was 
transformed  into  primarily  a  barrel-aging  building,  which  it's 
very  nicely  suited  for,  because  it's  set  back  in  the  hill, 
part  of  it  is  underground,  and  it's  got  these  wonderful,  thick 
stone  walls;  it's  great  for  that. 


36 


That,  in  a  way,  was  a  much  more  complicated  project  than 
designing  and  building  the  fermentation  cellar,  because  you 
are  working  with  something  that  is  already  there,  and  it  has  a 
lot  of  limitations- -and  a  lot  of  opportunities.   We  spent  a 
good  deal  of  time  on  that,  and  it  was  a  major  project. 


People 


Hicke:   We've  talked  about  the  winery  equipment;  what  about  people? 

Long:    When  I  came,  there  was  a  cellarmaster  and  four  or  five  people 
working  in  the  cellar- -the  cellarmaster 's  assistant  and  a 
couple  of  cellarmen  who  doubled  working  on  the  bottling  crew, 
warehousing,  and  so  on.   The  person  who  at  the  time  was 
functioning  as  my  assistant,  Chris  Markel,  left  and  went  to 
Piper- Sonoma  [Cellars]  to  become  their  sparkling  winemaker,  so 
I  hired  an  assistant  winemaker  in  '81.   We  had  a  much  more 
expanded  laboratory  function,  so  I  had  a  laboratory  director 
and  a  microbiologist  to  work  with  her.   One  of  the  people  who 
had  been  here  in  the  cellar,  Bill  Biggers,  was  promoted  to 
cellarmaster,  and  our  cellar  staff  expanded  as  we  grew. 

One  of  the  things  that  really  created  the  expansion  in 
personnel  was  the  barrel  aging.   We  haven't  grown  an  enormous 
amount  in  tonnage --we  were  crushing  1,300  tons  then,  and  now 
we're  crushing  2, 600 --but  in  those  days  a  very  small 
proportion  of  that  tonnage  was  barrel  aged,  and  now  almost  all 
of  it  is.   I  would  say  it  is  over  a  tenfold  increase  in 
barrels,  and  barrels  are  much  more  time-consuming  to  work 
with;  they  take  more  labor,  and  they  make  a  completely 
different  kind  of  wine.   Part  of  the  transformation  in  the 
winemaking  process  itself  was  to  move  the  wines  out  of  these 
big  redwood  tanks  where  they  had  been  aged  and  move  them  into 
a  French-oak-barrel  aging  process. 

As  a  result,  we  really  expanded  our  cellar  staff  and 
hired  quite  a  few  new  people  in  the  early  eighties.   A  large 
number  of  those  people  are  still  here.   Right  now  at  Simi  we 
have  an  enormously  experienced  and  talented  cellar  staff,  just 
a  fantastic  crew.   Winemaking  from  a  cellar  perspective- -the 
people  who  actually  receive,  crush,  press,  rack,  chill, 
barrel,  clean—they  are  the  people  who  are  physically  making 
the  wine.   Their  expertise  has  an  enormous  bearing  on  the 


37 


intrinsic,  basic  quality  of  the  wine.   That's  another  one  of 
those  basic  building  blocks  of  quality. 

Through  the  years  our  laboratory  has  expanded,  but  not  a 
great  deal.   In  the  ten-year  time  period,  particularly 
relevant  to  the  issues  I  was  telling  you  about  vineyard,  we've 
developed  a  viticulture  department.   When  I  came  there  was  no 
one;  I  was  buying  the  grapes.   If  there  was  anything  to  do 
with  grapes,  I  was  doing  it,  and  now  we  have  a 
viticulturalist,  Diane  Kenworthy,  who  started  here  in  1981  on 
a  part-time  basis  and  grew  that  job.   She  has  a  full-time 
assistant  and  a  part-time  assistant.   We've  worked  very  much 
through  the  years  in  developing  a  very  strong  link  with  the 
vineyards  to  address  some  of  these  issues,  which  I'm  sure 
we'll  get  into. 

Developing  the  team  and  putting  it  in  place  was  very 
much  a  part  of  the  work  of  the  early  eighties. 


Hicke:   Did  Michael  Dixon  have  ideas  about  the  people  he  wanted  or  the 
kinds  of  people  or  the  numbers  of  people? 

Long:    No,  he  didn't.   He  was  a  real  pleasure  to  work  with,  because 

he  would  provide  an  outline  of  the  goals  and  the  direction  and 
then  let  me  take  it  from  there.   The  working  relationship  was 
really  effective.   The  style  at  the  Mondavi  organization  was 
that  a  lot  of  people  were  involved  in  decisions,  so  to 
implement  a  decision  was  very  time  consuming  because  so  many 
people  had  to  participate  in  that  decision.   When  I  came  here, 
the  only  person  who  really  had  to  participate  in  the  big 
decisions  was  Michael- - [such  as]  the  decisions  on  kinds  of 
presses.   I  could  involve  my  people,  we  could  come  to  a 
conclusion,  I  could  make  a  recommendation,  and  then  we  would 
go  with  it. 

It  was  a  wonderfully  effective  way  of  working,  sort  of, 
"Let's  think  about  it;  let's  think  why  we  want  to  do  it,"  and 
then,  "Let's  do  it."  Of  course,  he  would  look  at  the  reasons; 
if  I  had  something  to  propose,  it  was  "Why?"  as  any  good 
executive  would  want  to  know.   But  he  was  a  very  supportive 
person  to  work  with  and  also  very  good  in  terms  of  this  quick 
ability  to  come  to  decisions  and  take  a  direction. 


38 


The  Must  Chiller 

[Interview  2:   September  24,  1991 ]## 


Hicke:   Yesterday  we  were  talking  about  the  status  of  the  winery  when 
you  came .   We  had  covered  the  people  and  the  equipment ,  so 
today  I  thought  we  could  talk  about  the  grapes  and  the 
winemaking.   But  there's  one  thing  I  wanted  to  go  back  to,  and 
that's  the  must  chiller  that  you  started.   Can  you  tell  me 
about  that? 

Long:    To  step  back  and  talk  conceptually,  when  you  start  something 
new- -in  this  case  it  was  building  a  fermentation  cellar;  in 
other  cases  it's  starting  a  vineyard- -you  have  an  opportunity 
at  that  time  to  look  at  new  ways  of  doing  things.   In  1980, 
when  we  were  designing  the  fermentation  cellar,  as  I  said 
yesterday,  we  started  with  how  much  wine  we  wanted  to  make  and 
how  we  wanted  to  make  it,  and  what  falls  out  is  the  particular 
equipment.   But  there  were  a  lot  of  changes  that  were  made  in 
that  new  cellar  design.   One,  of  course,  was  just  to  provide 
much  more  fermentation  space,  which  allowed  us  to  receive  our 
grapes  when  they  were  ready  to  harvest. 

One  of  the  big  decisions  in  designing  any  winery  is  how 
many  tanks  you  want  to  have.   If  you  have  a  larger  number 
relative  to  the  number  of  tons  you're  going  to  crush,  it 
allows  you  to  receive  grapes  in  a  shorter  period  of  time.   If 
you  have  x  number  of  grapes  to  crush- -let's  say  a  thousand 
tons- -you  can  choose  to  have  several  different  levels  of 
fermentation  space.   The  greater  space  you  provide,  the  more 
it  allows  you  to  take  in  grapes  in  a  very  short  period  of 
time.   What  that  means  is  that  in  a  few  years,  oftentimes  one 
out  of  ten,  you  have  weather  conditions- -sometimes  it's  heat, 
sometimes  it's  rain- -that  drive  the  harvest  of  the  grapes  and 
make  it  critical  to  bring  in  a  lot  of  grapes  in  a  short  period 
of  time. 

We  were  fortunate  to  be  able  to  afford  to  have  a  large 
amount  of  fermentation  space  to  allow  us  to  bring  all  grapes 
in  quickly  if  needed.   What  happened  in  1984  was  that  we 
brought  in  90  percent  of  our  grapes  in  three  weeks,  where  a 
normal  harvest  period  is  six  to  eight  weeks.   The  important 
things  in  that  original  cellar  design,  as  I  talked  about 
yesterday,  were  to  be  efficient  and  to  be  good  for  the  people 
who  work  in  it  so  they  could  focus  their  energy  on  the 
winemaking,  thinking  about  the  wines  rather  than  worrying 


39 


about  whether  the  equipment  was  functioning,  if  they  had 
enough  equipment,  if  it  was  properly  designed  to  do  its  job. 


The  new  fermentation  cellar  had  several  newly  designed 
pieces  of  equipment.   One  was  our  system  for  pomace  removal  of 
the  skins  and  seeds,  which  was  a  blowing  system  instead  of  a 
screw  conveyor.   The  benefits  of  that  had  nothing  to  do  with 
wine  quality,  simply  ease  of  handling  and  safety.   We  also  put 
in  overhead  tanks,  which  allowed  us  both  to  do  skin  contact 
where  we  needed  it  and  to  hold  grapes  for  our  presses  as  we 
went  through  our  press  cycle . 

Then  we  put  in  the  must  chiller  in  1981.   The  reason  for 
the  must  chiller  was  first  the  observation  that  in  European 
wineries  usually  the  harvest  is  later,  the  temperature  is 
cooler,  and  the  grapes  come  in  cold.   In  our  conditions  the 
grapes  are  often  cold  in  the  morning- -they 're  usually  fifty  or 
fifty- five  degrees  until  about  noon- -but  after  the  sun  comes 
out  and  the  grapes  warm  up  in  the  afternoon,  they  can  be 
eighty  or  eighty- five  degrees.   That's  very  dependent  on  the 
weather.   This  year,  1991,  they  will  be  very  cool  when  they 
come  in. 

I  believed  that  made  a  quality  difference,  so  we  were 
able  to  invest  in  this  must  chiller  that  allowed  us,  as  soon 
as  the  white  grapes  were  crushed,  to  chill  them  down. 

Hicke:   Did  you  design  it? 


Long:    Larry  Alary,  who  owned  an  industrial  refrigeration  company  in 
Healdsburg  (IRAP),  designed  it  to  meet  our  needs. 

Hicke:   But  there  was  no  such  thing  before  this? 

Long:    Yes,  there  were.   There  were  a  few  must  chillers  around,  but 
very  few.   The  use  of  the  must  chiller  was  not  a  part  of 
normal  premium  winemaking  in  California  at  that  time.   It  has 
become  an  intrinsic  part  since  then. 

Hicke:   Is  it  for  the  same  reason  that  people  turn  to  night  picking 
now?  You  can  do  one  or  the  other? 

Long:    I  had  a  new  winemaking  assistant  at  that  time,  Dave  Ramey.   He 
had  just  graduated  from  Davis  and  had  just  finished  his 
master's  degree,  if  I  recall  correctly,  and  he  did  some 


40 


research  for  me  on  this  must  chiller.   That  year  we  took 
grapes --the  same  grapes,  Chardonnay- -in  at  four  different 
temperatures:   a  normal  field  temperature- -we  selected  a  hot 
day,  so  it  was  relatively  warm,  roughly  seventy-five  degrees- - 
a  little  cooler,  sixty-five;  a  little  cooler,  about  fifty- 
eight;  then  a  little  cooler  about  fifty.   So  there  were  four 
different  temperatures,  and  of  course  we  used  the  must  chiller 
to  get  the  temperatures  down. 


We  held  the  grapes  in  our  overhead  tanks  for  twenty -four 
hours,  and  during  that  twenty-four-hour  period  we  took 
samples,  so  we  could  see  how  the  juice  changed  depending  on 
the  skin  contact  temperature  through  that  twenty-four  hours. 
Then  we  made  wine  from  them. 

Hicke:   Keeping  them  separate  all  this  time? 

Long:    Keeping  them  separate  the  whole  time.   We  noticed  two  things. 
First  of  all,  we  noticed  that  the  phenols- -the  compounds  that 
give  wine  its  body  and  some  of  its  aromas,  and  if  excessive 
can  give  astringency  and  bitterness- -were  extracted  faster  at 
warmer  temperatures.   We  had  known  before  that  the  longer  the 
crushed  grapes,  skins,  and  seeds  were  together,  which  is  the 
"period  of  skin  contact,"  the  more  phenolic  extraction  you 
got.   So  we  knew  length  of  time  was  important,  but  this 
allowed  us  to  quantify  the  role  of  temperature ,  and  it  turned 
out  in  these  studies  that  temperature  was  much  more  important 
than  time.   We  were  getting  in  about  two  hours  at  a  hot 
temperature  the  same  level  of  phenolic  extraction  that  we  were 
getting  in  twenty-four  hours  at  a  cold  temperature. 

What  we  saw,  then,  which  was  new,  was  that  temperature 
was  more  important  than  time.   The  reason  it  was  important, 
related  to  our  style  goals- -and  it  goes  back  to  the  concept 
that  everything  that  you  do  and  the  judgments  that  you  make 
have  to  be  in  some  framework  of  quality  and  style- -was  that  we 
wanted  to  make  a  more  delicate,  elegant  style  of  wine.   As  we 
looked  back  at  the  Chardonnays  of  the  seventies,  they  seemed  a 
little  big,  a  little  clumsy,  a  little  unsophisticated. 

We  followed  these  four  wines  for  a  couple  of  years,  and 
what  we  saw  was  that  in  the  first  six  months  the  wine  made 
from  the  long,  hot  skin  contact  was  the  most  interesting.   It 
was  immediately  accessible,  fragrant,  and  sort  of  rich  and 
fat.   The  others  were  lean,  tight,  and  closed.   At  the  end  of 
the  year,  that  wine  had  gotten  sort  of  heavy  and  clumsy,  so  by 


the  time  it  would  have  been  released  it  had  lost  its  charm. 
After  a  year  the  next  one,  the  roughly  sixty -five -degree  skin 
contact,  was  the  most  interesting.   It  was  open  and  with  good 
body  and  flavor,  but  in  time  that  deteriorated.   What  we  saw 
was  that  the  wine  with  the  coldest  skin  contact,  i.e.,  the 
lowest  phenolic  extraction,  was  the  wine  that  really  went  the 
longest  and  in  time  opened  up  and  became  the  most 
sophisticated  and  refined  of  those  wines. 

So  we  adopted  that  practice  of  chilling  the  must.   And 
the  other  thing  we  did  that  was  really  important  together  with 
that  was  to  eliminate  the  use  of  S02  in  the  juice.   The 
practices  of  the  seventies  had  been  to  add  S02  to  the  grapes 
at  the  crusher  to  inhibit  oxidation  of  the  juice.   We  began  to 
question  that,  saying,  "We  really  don't  want  to  use  S02  unless 
it's  doing  something  beneficial,  and  is  it  really  beneficial 
to  protect  juice  from  oxidation?"   What  we  found  was  that  the 
S02  had  a  beneficial  effect  when  you  didn't  have  a  must 
chiller;  that  is,  when  the  grapes  came  in  and  they  were  warm, 
you  could  possibly  have  a  wild  yeast  fermentation  start  up, 
and  the  S02  inhibited  that.   On  the  other  hand,  when  the 
grapes  came  in  and  they  were  cold,  you  didn't  need  to  worry 
about  your  fermentations;  you  were  going  to  add  the  yeast,  and 
it  was  going  to  take  off  in  good  time. 

The  other  question  was,  "Are  we  really  concerned  with 
this  oxidation  of  the  juice?"  What  we  found  out  was  that  if 
we  allowed  the  oxidation  of  the  juice  to  take  place  in  the 
absence  of  S02,  we  got  two  benefits:   one,  we  got  lower 
phenols  in  the  wine,  a  more  delicate  wine  in  the  mouth,  longer 
life;  and,  two,  our  malolactic  fermentations  were  easier  to 
complete.   So  the  must  chiller  not  only  had  an  impact  on  the 
mouth  feel  of  the  wine;  it  allowed  us  to  eliminate  our  use  of 
S02  prior  to  fermentation. 


So  it  wasn't  just  one  thing  happening;  it  was  a  group  of 
winemaking  goals  coming  together:   achieving  malolactic, 
achieving  delicacy  through  lower  phenolics,  both  by 
precipitating  the  phenolics  through  the  oxidation  of  the  juice 
and  reducing  the  tendency  of  the  juice  to  have  phenolics  in 
the  first  place  by  reducing  the  extraction  from  the  skins. 

The  general  direction  that  we  saw  at  that  time  was  that 
we  wanted  lower  phenolic  wines,  although  the  winery  we  had 
designed  in  1980  had  allowed  for  fairly  significant  skin 
contact  times.   Our  first  change  was  to  make  the  skin  contact 


42 


cold,  so  we  basically  reduced  the  rate  of  skin  contact 
significantly,  and  then  over  time  we  actually  reduced  the 
time.   We  went  through  a  major  evolution  in  the  handling  of 
the  grapes.   Of  course,  now  we're  experimenting  with  wild 
yeast  fermentations.   At  the  beginning  of  the  eighties  we  were 
concerned  about  having  wild  yeast  fermentation,  and  now  we're 
intrigued  by  the  possibility  that  they  may  add  to  mouth 
feeling  complexity.   That's  winemaking! 

It's  an  illustration  that  everything  that  you  consider 
about  winemaking  has  to  be  done  in  the  context  of  what  your 
wine  goals  are  and  what  your  grape  material  is.   I've  seen 
through  the  years  people  talk  about  some  part  of  the 
winemaking  process  as  right  or  wrong,  and  I've  never  felt 
there  was  truth  in  that.   Right  or  wrong  is  always  relative  to 
the  vineyard,  the  grapes,  the  vintage,  the  wine  style  goal. 
Winemaking  is  really  a  system  of  decisions;  it's  not  a  series 
of  right  and  wrong  decisions.   It's  a  series  of  decisions  that 
have  to  fit  together  in  a  harmonious  way. 

One  of  the  lessons  that  I've  learned  is  that  if  you  are 
looking  at  the  winemaking  of  a  variety  or  of  a  site,  you  can't 
just  change  one  part  of  it.   Oftentimes  if  you  change  one  part 
of  it,  the  rest  of  the  system  has  to  change,  so  the  series  of 
decisions  that  are  made  in  working  with  wine  are  a  system  of 
decisions;  they're  not  a  group  of  individual,  isolated 
decisions . 

Hicke:   This  discovery  of  the  relationship  of  temperature  to 
everything  else  was  really  crucial? 

Long:    It  was  crucial,  and  it  was  a  major  step  in  understanding. 

People  say,  "What  about  technology  and  science --how  does  it 
relate  to  winemaking?"   It  was  an  illustration  that  we  had  a 
piece  of  information.   People  at  some  level  had  intuitively 
thought  that  temperature  was  important,  but  we  had  a  piece  of 
information  that  really  told  us  what  was  going  on  and  how  it 
affected  the  style.   With  that  information,  winemakers  could 
choose  to  either  use  it  or  not  use  it,  or  to  use  it  to  some 
extent.   That  was  a  piece  of  information  that  would  allow  them 
to  make  a  whole  range  of  choices ,  once  they  had  that 
understanding.   The  must  chiller  was  basically  a  tool  to  allow 
us  to  impose  those  controls . 

People  subsequently  found  other  ways  to  do  that- -night 
harvesting,  and  the  amount  of  extraction  you  get  at  night  is 
less  because  the  grapes  are  cooler.  But  you  have  a  choice 


43 


between  night  hand-harvest  and  night  machine -harvest.   You'll 
get  more  extraction  with  night  machine-harvest  than  with  night 
hand-harvest  because  the  grapes  are  broken  by  the  machine. 
There  are  other  systems  of  chilling  the  grapes;  some  wineries 
have  a  cold  tunnel  that  the  grapes  pass  through.   So  people 
have  found  ways  to  take  that  information  and  adapt  it  to  their 
own  facility,  their  own  style  and  way  of  thinking  about  the 
wine.   But  it  was  an  important  new  piece  of  information. 

Hicke:   I  know  you  do  a  lot  of  writing  and  speaking.   Do  you  pass 
these  kinds  of  things  along  that  you  have  discovered? 

Long:    Yes.   Over  the  years  I've  done  an  enormous  amount  of  technical 
discussions  through  the  University,  through  our  technical 
groups,  through  Extension,  and  through  some  writing  to 
communicate  that  information.   I  don't  do  that  so  much  any 
more  because  I'm  not  in  a  technical  position  any  more;  I'm  in 
a  management  position.   I  wrote  several  articles  on  those 
issues.   [See  appendix  for  list  of  articles  by  Long.] 


Winemaking 


Hicke:   We  have  two  other  areas  to  cover:   winemaking  and  the  grapes. 
I  think  you  told  me  what  was  being  made  here. 

Long:    One  of  the  things  I  would  want  to  say  is  that  we're  talking 

about  these  things  separately- -the  people,  the  equipment,  the 
process,  and  the  grapes --but  they're  never  separate,  of 
course.   For  example,  the  decisions  on  the  equipment  that  we 
were  using  involved  the  people  who  were  working  at  the  winery 
who  had  input  on  what  we  needed  to  use  and  how  it  should  be 
designed.   All  of  the  pieces  of  winery  equipment  that  we  use 
that  touch  the  wine --the  barrels,  the  press,  the  crushers -- 
have  an  impact  on  the  composition  of  the  wine.   For  example, 
if  you  were  to  buy  a  press  for  a  winery,  you  have  a  dozen 
designs  to  choose  from,  and  if  you  put  the  same  grapes  through 
those  presses  at  the  same  temperature ,  and  you  have  the  same 
person  running  the  presses,  you'd  get  different  result;  you'd 
get  different  juices.   That's  why  we  give  a  lot  of  attention 
to  the  equipment. 

That  attention  isn't  just  from  the  winemaker;  it 
involves  the  input  of  the  people  who  work  with  these  pieces  of 
equipment.   For  example,  with  presses  at  Simi:   our  very  top 


44 


Hicke: 

Long: 
Hicke : 

Long: 


Hicke : 


Long: 


cellar  people  run  our  presses  every  year.   They  have  a  level 
of  intuitive  and  observational  experiential  knowledge  that  is 
crucial  if  you're  making  decisions  to  change  those  pieces  of 
equipment.   At  that  time  our  cellarmaster  was  Bill  Biggers, 
who  had  been  at  Simi  for  a  long  time  and  had  a  really  critical 
role  in  the  early  evolution  of  the  winery.   Barbara  Lindblom, 
as  I  mentioned,  had  come  in  and  done  all  the  design  for  the 
laboratory  facility.   Then,  talking  about  the  must  chiller, 
Dave  Ramey  and  his  experiment- -he  didn't  make  the  decision  to 
do  the  must  chiller,  but  it  was  his  experimental  work  with  it 
that  really  showed  us  how  important  it  was. 

So  you  just  can't  separate;  these  never  come  in 
individual  pieces. 

That's  good  to  point  out,  although  I  guess  we  have  to  talk 
about  them  separately. 

How  specifically  do  you  want  to  talk  about  the  winemaking? 

I  would  like  to  ask  you  what  it  was  here  that  was  eventually 
changed,  what  were  the  important  steps. 

If  we're  going  to  address  the  changes  here  at  Simi- -let's  say 
for  Chardonnay  and  Cabernet,  because  those  were  two  varieties 
that  were  made  then  and  are  an  important  part  of  what  we  are 
doing  now- -the  first  thing  was  that  we  took  a  complete  review 
of  the  wines  themselves.   The  review  of  the  wines,  as  I 
mentioned  yesterday,  wasn't  just  a  one-time  review  in  1979, 
when  the  building  was  being  designed,  but  an  ongoing  review 
and  evolution.   Even  the  wines  that  we  made  and  wanted  to  make 
in  1980  aren't  the  same  as  the  wines  we  want  to  make  and  are 
making  in  1990. 

When  you  are  talking  about  a  review,  you're  talking  about  the 
wines  that  were  here? 

I'm  talking  about  a  mental  review.   To  come  back  again, 
winemaking  starts  with  your  vision  of  what  you  want  to 
accomplish.   You  are  saying,  "What  is  it  I  want  to  do,  and  how 
am  I  going  to  go  about  doing  it?"   From  those  question  flow 
the  decisions  about  the  process,  the  grapes,  the  equipment. 

If  you  want  to  look  at  the  physical  changes,  when  I 
came,  in  the  process  with  Chardonnay  there  was  fermentation  of 
Chardonnay  in  barrels,  but  it  was  limited.   We  dramatically 


45 


increased  the  amount  of  barrel  fermentation  for  Chardonnay,  we 
increased  the  amount  of  new  oak  that  was  used  in  Chardonnay. 

Hicke:   Was  there  any  French  oak  there? 

Long:    There  was  some  French  oak,  a  relatively  small  amount  compared 
to  the  crush.   We  moved  to  barrel  aging  all  of  the  Chardonnay, 
a  higher  percent  in  barrels,  a  higher  percent  of  new  oak.   We 
moved  to  the  stirring  of  the  yeast  lees,  we  reduced  the  use  of 
S02  in  the  juice  and  finally  eliminated  it,  we  started  to  do 
malolactic  with  the  Chardonnay,  we  started  to  do  some  managed 
skin  contact  with  the  Chardonnay.   We  also  developed  new 
sources  for  Chardonnay  grapes,  and  we  developed  a  Reserve 
Chardonnay.   So  we  basically  completely  remade  the  winemaking 
in  terms  of  the  grapes,  the  equipment  we  were  able  to  use  with 
the  Chardonnay,  and  the  process  itself. 


Viticulture 


Long:    In  the  early  eighties,  my  concerns  were  getting  more  complex 

wines,  and  we  did  that  by  looking  at  grape  issues,  malolactic, 
use  of  oak,  barrel  fermentation.   In  the  late  eighties,  our 
concerns  have  been  texture  and  balance  in  the  wine  and  flavor 
concentration.   Texture  and  balance  in  the  wine  are  to  some 
extent  vineyard  and  to  some  extent  winemaking  issues;  flavor 
concentration  is  primarily  a  vineyard  issue  that  we  are 
looking  at. 

Another  thing  we've  really  looked  at  a  lot  in  the 
eighties  with  Chardonnay  is  the  impact  of  different  clones  of 
Chardonnay.   We've  had  the  good  fortune  to  have  some  of  our 
growers,  primarily  a  couple,  Glen  and  Mary  Beth  Dow,  who 
decided,  on  our  recommendation,  to  plant  some  different  clones 
of  Chardonnay  in  their  vineyard.   Since  we've  worked  with 
their  vineyard  for  ten  years,  we've  had  an  opportunity  to 
really  understand  how  differently  Chardonnay  can  express 
itself.   It  comes  back  to  the  idea  of  the  different 
personality,  different  aroma  and  flavor  characteristics. 
We've  really  studied  the  role  of  clones  in  flavor  differences 
in  Chardonnay. 


46 


I  sat  down  and  wrote  for  the  Vintners  Club  book  a  pretty 
complete  discussion  about  Chardonnay  winemaking  from  a 
technical  point  of  view. 

Hicke:   That  UC  book  of  wine  has  an  article  on  it,  too. 

Long:    The  UC  book  of  wine  talked  about  changes  in  technology  in 
winemkaing  and  the  vineyard,  and  that  was  a  more  general 
discussion.   3 

Hicke :   What  is  the  the  name  of  your  book? 

Long:    It's  Vintners  Club:  Fourteen  Years  of  Wine  Tastings. 

The  other  thing  that  deserves  a  lot  of  mention  with 
Chardonnay  that  we  talked  about  yesterday  is  this  issue  of 
barrels.   In  the  seventies  at  Mondavi  we  really  looked  at 
different  oaks- -Limousin,  Nevers,  and  so  on.   In  Simi  in  the 
eighties,  we  tended  to  focus  more  on  different  coopers,  as  I 
mentioned  yesterday:   what  are  the  characteristics  of  the 
coopers,  and  how  do  they  relate  or  add  to  the  wine? 

The  other  issue  with  Chardonnay  that  we  looked  at  was 
ripeness- -timing  of  harvest.   This  is  partly  a  vineyard  issue, 
but  it's  really  important  for  winemaking,  so  let  me  touch  on 
it.   I  mentioned  earlier  that  in  the  seventies  it  was  felt 
that  the  Brix  of  the  grape  at  harvest  was  really  the  most 
crucial  quality  factor,  and  the  grape  payments  were  set  up 
around  Brix.   As  soon  as  I  came  to  Simi  and  got  out  into  the 
vineyards  and  started  tasting  grapes,  I  recognized  immediately 
that  there  were  other  factors  than  the  Brix  or  the  sugar  that 
were  going  to  impact  quality.   Some  vineyards  seemed  riper, 
ripeness  being  defined  as  a  golden  grape,  a  soft  grape,  flavor 
development.   Some  of  the  grapes  seemed  ripe  at  twenty-one 
Brix,  and  some  grapes  didn't  seem  to  achieve  that  ripeness 
until  twenty-three  or  twenty-four.   It  was  clear  that  there 
were  other  things  happening  and  that  we  had  to  expand  our 
definition  of  ripeness  far  beyond  Brix. 


Zelma  Long,  "Enological  and  Technological  Developments,"  and 
Zelma  Long,  "The  Science  of  Growing  Grapes,"  The  University  of 
Calif ornia/Sotheby  Book  of  California  Wine,  eds .  Doris  Muscatine, 
Maynard  A.  Amerine,  Bob  Thompson  (Berkeley:   University  of  California 
Press/Sotheby  Publications,  1984)].   The  Vintners  book  was  a  very 
focused  discussion  on  Chardonnay.   ZL 


47 


In  1981,  Diane  Kenworthy,  who  is  our  viticulturalist , 
came  to  Simi  on  a  part-time  basis.   She  began  to  work  with  me 
in  the  vineyards;  she  did  the  field  samples.   She  brought  with 
her  a  technical  viticulture  background,  and  we  spent  about 
five  years  developing  a  system  to  help  us  to  say  when  to 
harvest  the  grapes.   It  was  a  system  of  sampling,  collecting 
data- -sugar,  acid,  pH;  the  sugar  per  berry- -the  actual 
physiological  accumulation  of  sugar,  as  opposed  to  sugar  that 
you  see  from  rehydration  or  dehydration.   We  also  developed  a 
system  for  crushing  the  grapes  and  tasting  the  juice,  and 
watching  the  change  in  the  aromas,  particularly  of  the  juice. 


What  we  saw  was  that  there  weren't  any  perfect  numbers, 
but  what  was  important  in  collecting  data  was  the  evolution  of 
the  grape.   It  wasn't,  "Is  the  grape  at  twenty-one?"   It's, 
"How  fast  is  it  changing?   Has  it  come  to  a  plateau?"   It 
wasn't  that  the  acid  was  at  .9;  it  was,  "How  does  the  acid 
relate  to  the  sugar  at  this  particular  phase  of  its  ripening, 
and  how  does  that  relate  to  the  pH?"   It  was  more  a  study  of 
trends  and  interactions  as  a  basis  for  harvest  decisions  than 
specific  numbers. 

Hicke:   Do  you  keep  all  these  records  on  a  computer? 

Long:    The  records  are  still  hand  kept,  but  for  many  of  our  vineyards 
we  have  ten  years  of  data  that  show  all  of  the  sampling  for 
those  vineyards- -that  show  the  average  Brix  and  the  acid  and 
pH  at  harvest- -so  as  we  sample  a  vineyard  now  we  can  think 
about  how  those  grapes  taste,  look  at  their  relative  numbers, 
and  see  what  that  means  in  terms  of  the  past- -how  has  that 
vineyard  behaved  in  the  past? 

Hicke:   So  you  look  at  the  grapes  for  this  year,  for  example,  and  say, 
"Oh,  yes,  they're  about  at  the  place  where  they  were  in  1984, 
and  that  was  a  good  year."   Is  that  how  you  do  it? 

Long:    Not  exactly.   The  past  never  provides  the  perfect  template  for 
a  harvest  decision  this  year.   What  you  would  be  doing,  for 
example,  would  be  saying,  "As  we  look  at  this  vineyard,  it 
tends  to  be  ripe  at  a  lower  sugar  and  a  higher  pH  as  opposed 
to  that  vineyard."   What  you're  really  looking  to  do  is,  "Is 
this  year  similar  or  different?"   If  you  took  a  decision  in 
isolation- -you  had  never  worked  with  this  vineyard  at  all,  and 
you  see  it's  twenty-one  Brix  and  3  pH--what  does  that  mean? 
It's  more  meaningful  in  a  context  of  past  performance. 


If  you  want  to  think  of  it  that  way,  the  harvest 
decision  is- -now  I'm  just  talking  about  the  sampling  and  the 
numbers,  which  is  maybe  40  percent  of  the  harvest  decision. 
The  other  part  of  the  harvest  decision  is  what  the  grapes  look 
like  in  the  field,  how  evenly  ripe  is  the  cluster,  what  is  the 
color,  what  is  the  texture,  what  is  the  condition  of  the  vine, 
do  we  think  the  vine  is  going  to  be  able  to  continue  to  ripen 
these  grapes,  what's  the  weather  prediction,  what  does  the 
grower  think? 

What  we  did  was  take  a  harvest  model  that  was  based 
completely  on  Brix  and  expand  it  to  an  essentially 
multivariant  model,  which  includes  Brix,  TA  [titratable 
acidity] ,  and  pH  in  terms  of  trends  and  relationships  in 
history  rather  than  in  terms  of  specific  numbers,  and  then 
visual  observation  in  the  field  of  color,  texture,  evenness  of 
ripening,  vine  condition,  etc. 

H 

Long:    And  then  input  from  the  grower,  and  flavor  development.   So  a 
very  complex  model.   It's  not  a  quantitative  model;  it's  a 
qualitative  model. 

The  whole  system  of  assessing  ripeness  and  the  basis  for 
ripeness  decisions  was  the  big  change,  not  only  for  Chardonnay 
but  for  other  varieties.   That  was  something  that  Diane  and  I 
spent  a  tremendous  amount  of  time  developing  in  the  early 
eighties. 

Hicke:   That  sounds  very  complicated  but  very  interesting. 

Long:    We  were  talking  yesterday  about  the  teacher  model;  you  have  a 
class,  you  have  a  game  plan,  you  change  your  game  plan.   What 
I'm  talking  about  with  a  vineyard  would  be  very  much  like 
working  with  a  person.   If  you  met  someone  for  the  first  time, 
and  you  didn't  know  them  at  all  and  were  in  some  situation 
that  required  some  action,  you  wouldn't  have  any  basis  on 
which  to  understand  what  they  were  going  to  do.   If  you  worked 
with  them  for  ten  years  and  were  in  that  situation,  based  on 
your  observations  from  the  past  you'd  have  a  better  idea  of 
their  behavior.   But  it  wouldn't  be  a  perfect  predictor, 
because  their  behavior  is  always  going  to  be  relevant  to  a  new 
situation. 

When  we  collect  information  about  the  vineyard,  we 
develop  a  context  in  which  we  can  understand  the  vineyard 


49 


behavior,  but  it's  never  a  perfect  predictor  of  how  that 
vineyard's  going  to  behave  this  year.   This  year  is  always  a 
new  year  and  always  has  to  be  looked  at  as  a  new  year.   It's 
true  for  1991.   Nineteen  ninety-one  is  a  season  completely 
different  in  its  weather  patterns  and  the  vine  behavior  than 
any  season  I've  seen  since  I  started  wineraaking  in  1970.   So 
the  decisions  of  grape  harvest  and  winemaking  have  to  be  taken 
differently,  but  at  least,  because  we've  got  collected 
information,  for  one  thing  we  know  it's  different.   We'll  have 
a  chance  to  see  how  different  because  we  have  this  other 
reference  information. 

When  I  was  talking  yesterday  about  the  winemaking  of  the 
nineties,  that's  what  it's  all  about.   It's  knowing  the 
vineyards,  knowing  the  vintage --the  particular  weather  and 
soil,  the  characteristics  of  the  year- -and  then  saying,  "What 
do  I  do?",  knowing  that  it's  never  going  to  be  the  same  from 
year  to  year.   People  say  that's  really  complicated,  but  it's 
not  that  complicated.   Everybody  does  that  every  day;  they 
just  don't  realize  it.   And  they  do  it  primarily  when  they 
deal  with  people,  because  people  are  really  complicated. 

Hicke:   That's  a  good  analogy.   I  think  you'd  make  a  wonderful  teacher 
because  you  have  this  way  of  explaining  things. 

Long:    We  were  addressing  the  Chardonnay  winemaking,  and  we  talked 

about  the  changes.   I  want  to  come  back,  before  we  talk  about 
the  vineyard,  and  talk  about  the  Cabernet  winemaking  and  the 
changes.  When  I  came  to  Simi,  as  I  mentioned  earlier,  the 
Cabernet  was  fermented  in  these  large,  open  redwood  tanks  with 
less  effective  fermentation  control,  pressed  in  Vaslin 
presses,  and  aged  in  primarily  American  oak  barrels  and 
redwood  tanks . 

So  for  the  Cabernet  there  were  many  changes.  Again, 
source  of  vineyard  material  for  Cabernet  changed  very 
dramatically  in  that  ten-year  period.   We  started  out  with  one 
vineyard,  and  then  we  expanded  to  an  exploration  of  a  variety 
of  vineyards  in  Sonoma  County.   We  developed  our  own  vineyard 
in  the  early  eighties,  and  that  came  into  production,  so  by 
the  second  half  of  the  eighties  most  of  the  Cabernet  and 
Bordeaux  varieties  we  were  working  with  were  from  our  own 
vineyards . 

Hicke:   Was  that  '82  or  so  when  you  started? 


50 


Long:    We  actually  planted  in  '83.   The  vines  came  into  serious 

production  in  '86.   So  the  source  of  the  grapes  evolved,  and 
the  composition  of  the  grapes  we  worked  with  changed,  because 
when  we  planted  our  vineyard  we  planted  Cabernet  Sauvignon, 
Cabernet  Franc,  Merlot,  and  Petit  Verdot.   Those  grapes,  with 
the  exception  of  Merlot,  were  not  widely  available,  nor  did  we 
widely  use  them  in  the  early  eighties.   So  we  increased  the 
number  of  Bordeaux  varieties  in  our  Cabernet  blend. 

Hicke:   Why  did  you  do  that? 

Long:    When  you  plant  a  vineyard,  like  when  you  design  a  winery,  it's 
an  opportunity  to  try  new  directions  that  you  won't  have  after 
the  vineyard  has  been  planted.   It  forces  you  to  stop  and 
think  about  what's  in  the  future  with  this  variety,  and  1 
really  felt  that  the  future  was  with  an  expanded  palette  of 
varietals.   That  wasn't  a  new  concept,  in  the  sense  that  it 
was  very  much  a  European  model,  but  was  relatively  new  to 
California.   Basically,  those  different  grapes  would  give  some 
kind  of  balance  and  complexity  you  couldn't  necessarily  get 
with  solely  Cabernet. 

In  that  ten-year  period  the  equipment  that  we  handled 
Cabernet  with- -our  crushers  and  presses- -changed,  so  we  were 
able  to  really  handle  the  Cabernet  grapes  more  gently,  both  in 
crushing  and  pressing,  which  is  important,  because  a  rougher 
handling  of  Cabernet  tends  to  give  more  astringency  and 
bitterness.   Beginning  in  1982  we  looked  at  new  techniques  for 
mixing  the  tanks  during  fermentation. 

Hicke:   Mixing  the  tanks? 


Long:    When  you're  fermenting  Cabernet  you  have  skins,  seeds,  and 

juice  together.   The  skins  float  up  to  the  top,  and  you  have 
to  mix  the  tanks  through  the  day  in  order  to  wet  the  skins  and 
extract  the  materials  in  the  skins.   We  looked  at  new  systems 
for  doing  that  in  a  way  that  would  assure  extraction  but 
reduce  astringency.   We  began  those  experiments  in  '82,  and  by 
1985  we  had  converted  to  a  more  gentle  extraction  system. 

So  in  the  early  eighties  we  were  developing  different 
pressing  techniques  and  different  extraction  techniques  during 
the  time  the  Cabernet  was  on  its  skins.   When  I  came  in  1980, 
I  didn't  expect  that  we  would  be  doing  long  macerations,  but 
in  the  early  half  of  the  eighties  we  began  to  explore  a  longer 


51 


time  on  the  skins  after  fermentation,  for  Cabernet,  as  a  way 
to  enhance  richness,  flavor  complexity,  and  flavor  life. 

We  dramatically  changed  our  cooperage.   As  I  say, 
Cabernet  had  been  aged  in  redwood  and  American  oak  primarily, 
a  small  amount  in  French  oak.   We  eliminated  the  redwood  in 
the  winery  and  moved  to  completely  French  oak  aging,  which  was 
a  dramatic  improvement  on  the  wines. 

When  Dave  Ramey  left  as  assistant  winemaker  in  1985  and 
a  new  assistant  winemaker  came,  Paul  Hobbs ,  he  implemented 
some  further  changes,  really  beginning  to  look  at  press 
separation  for  Cabernet  and  to  be  more  sensitive  to  acid 
additions- -that  is,  reducing  the  amount  of  acid  we  were 
adding.   In  the  mid-eighties  he  and  I  took  a  trip  to  Bordeaux, 
and  we  really  re -looked  at  the  whole  winemaking  process  for 
Cabernet  with  a  few  key  people  in  Bordeaux.   The  most 
important  observation  there  was  that  the  Bordelaise  winemakers 
looked  at  Cabernet,  from  a  sensory  point  of  view,  primarily 
for  mouth  feel  and  balance  rather  than  aromatics.   The  whole 
sensory  model  for  California  had  been  aromatic  oriented,  I 
believe.   At  UC  Davis  there  was  a  lot  of  discussion  about  wine 
aromas  and  different  kinds  of  aromas- -varietal  aroma,  off 
aromas- -but  there  was  very  little  discussion  about  texture, 
flavor  concentration,  flavor  length,  balance. 

I  think  that  without  us  really  realizing  it,  the 
winemaking  model  of  the  seventies  was  an  aromatic  model.   If 
you  go  back  and  look  at  the  wines ,  you  had  a  very  intensely 
perfumed  Char donnay-- buttery,  woody- -and  you  had  an  intensely 
aromatic  Sauvignon  Blanc  and  Cabernet.   Those  wines  were 
dominated  more  by  nose,  and  the  weakness  was  in  the  mouth. 

What  we  really  began  to  do  was  change  our  whole  model 
for  winemaking  from  an  aromatic  to  a  mouth  feel  model, 
thinking  about  the  important  issues  being  flavor 
concentration- -the  amount  and  intensity  of  flavor;  length  of 
flavor- -how  long  it  stays  in  the  mouth;  the  texture  of  the 
wine  from  the  beginning  of  the  time  when  you  put  it  in  your 
mouth,  through  the  middle,  and  to  the  end;  and  the  balance  and 
interaction  of  components- -the  harmony,  the  mouth  impression 
and  how  it  relates  to  the  aromatic  impression. 

I  remember  when  we  were  on  that  trip  in  '86,  we  visited 
Professor  Gayon,  who  was  the  chairman  of  the  enology 
department  at  the  University  of  Bordeaux.   He  said,  "We 
believe  that  the  nose  follows  the  mouth;  that  if  you  have  the 


52 


wine  you  want  in  the  mouth,  the  nose  will  come  along."   That 
was  the  Bordeaux  model  of  winemaking,  and  we  adapted  that.   A 
tremendous  amount  of  attention  with  Cabernet  particularly,  but 
also  with  Chardonnay,  went  to  improving  the  mouth  feel. 
Certainly  in  the  second  half  of  the  eighties,  when  Paul  came 
in  as  assistant  winemaker  and  hired  as  his  associate  Tasha 
McCorkle,  the  two  of  them  made  an  important  contribution  to 
our  Cabernet  and  our  Chardonnay  in  terms  of  texture,  mouth 
feel,  and  balance.   It  was  something  they  worked  on  a  lot. 
They  worked  hard  on  that,  thought  a  lot  about  it,  and 
implemented  techniques  that  addressed  those  issues. 

By  the  end  of  the  eighties,  with  different  grapes  in  a 
completely  rethought  winemaking  model  and  with  revised 
techniques  for  Cabernet,  we  were  basically  making  very 
different  Cabernets  from  the  early  years.   To  me,  in  a  way 
that's  the  essence  of  winemaking- -that  ability  to  continue  to 
evolve  in  a  positive  direction.   You've  heard  me  talk  already 
a  couple  of  times  about  what  I  think  that  direction  needs  to 
be  for  the  nineties. 


Viticulture:   The  Vineyards 


Long:    We  can  go  ahead  and  talk  about  the  vineyards  now.   When  I  came 
to  Simi  in  1980,  we  had  all  of  our  Chardonnay  and  all  of  our 
Cabernet  under  long-term  contract.   One  of  my  jobs  was  to 
review  those  grapes  and  see  if  we  really  wanted  to  have  them. 
In  the  case  of  Chardonnay  we  did,  and  we  continued  our 
contract  with  our  Mendocino  Chardonnay,  but  as  our  Chardonnay 
program  grew,  we  began  to  develop  grape  sources  outside  of 
Mendocino.   With  Cabernet  we  changed.   We  received  grapes  from 
one  source  in  1980  and  '81  and  then  began  to  seek  other 
sources  for  Cabernet. 

So  in  those  years  from  '81  to  '85  I  had  an  opportunity 
to  explore  Cabernets  from  many  different  parts  of  Sonoma 
County.   It  takes  time  to  establish  new  vineyards  and  sources, 
but  certainly  by  '85  we  had  defined  the  vineyards  that  we 
really  wanted  to  work  with.   Cabernet  was  and  probably  always 
will  be  more  difficult  to  find  top  grapes.   I  think  one  of  the 
underlying  reasons  for  the  popularity  of  Chardonnay  is  that  it 
tends  to  be  relatively  forgiving  where  it  grows,  so  it  can 
grow  in  a  larger  variety  of  soil  and  climate  conditions  and 


53 


produce  attractive  wine  than  Cabernet.   Cabernet  is  relatively 
particular  about  where  it's  going  to  grow  wine  well. 

I  believe  that  in  the  eighties  we  were  just  beginning  to 
understand  what  a  good  site  was  and  what  was  good  vineyard 
management  technique . 

Hicke:   So  you  were  looking  for  better  quality  primarily? 

Long:    Yes.   And,  as  I  said,  not  finding  it  really  easy;  there  wasn't 
a  vineyard  every  time  you  turned  around  that  would  meet  the 
quality  expectations.   I  think  at  the  same  time  it's  fair  to 
say  that  we  were  not  only  looking  for  better  grapes;  we  were 
developing  our  own  understanding  of  what  a  better  grape  really 
was,  what  the  conditions  were  that  produced  a  better  grape. 
It  turns  out  that  a  lot  of  those  conditions  were  viticultural . 
The  vineyards  we  needed  in  the  early  eighties  to  produce 
superior  Cabernet  had  to  be  vineyards  that  naturally  did  that. 
By  the  end  of  the  eighties  there  were  many  people  who  had 
begun  to  apply  specific  techniques  in  a  variety  of  sites  that 
would  help  improve  the  Cabernet. 

Simi  hadn't  had  vineyards;  when  I  came  there  were  no 
vineyards.   Simi  had  had  vineyards  pre-Prohibition,  and  then 
the  vineyards  were  lost;  they  were  sold  to  pay  to  keep  the 
winery  going.   Michael  Dixon,  certainly  with  my  encouragement, 
took  a  direction  to  begin  to  acquire  vineyards  for  Simi.   I 
asked  that  we  look  for  Cabernet  vineyards,  because,  again,  I 
was  finding  it  more  difficult  to  buy  good  Cabernet.   I  felt 
that  if  we  wished  to  grow  something,  that  would  be  the  variety 
to  grow.   I  had  found  several  grape  sources  in  the  Chalk  Hill 
area  of  Alexander  Valley- -the  southeast  area- -which  I  liked 
very  much.   When  we  heard  of  a  piece  of  property  becoming 
available  and  had  an  opportunity  to  buy  it,  that  became  the 
chosen  site- -after,  of  course,  a  lot  of  investigation  and  so 
on.   Michael  moved  ahead  and  leased  a  vineyard  that  was 
contiguous,  so  between  the  owned  and  the  leased  acreage  we 
ultimately  had  about  175  planted  acres,  of  which  125  were  the 
Bordeaux  varieties. 

The  early  eighties  was  a  time  of  tremendous  ferment 
viticulturally .   When  Diane  came  to  work  at  Simi  in  1981,  we 
spent  time  together  in  the  vineyard.   For  me  it  was  these 
enormous  questions  of  the  vineyard:   how  do  I  figure  out  when 
the  grapes  are  ripe?  How  do  I  know  where  they're  going  to 
grow  best  and  under  what  conditions?   I  had  quite  a  few 
viticulture  friends  in  the  Napa  Valley,  and  I  found  that  they 


54 


had  the  same  kinds  of  questions.   So  in  1981  we  had  a  post- 
harvest  meeting  at  Simi,  and  we  invited  several  of  our 
viticulture  friends  and  Dr.  Mark  Kliewer,  viticulturalist  from 
UC  Davis.   We  put  a  lot  of  these  questions  out  on  the  table. 
We  said,  "We  really  need  you  to  do  some  research  that  would 
address  these  questions  we  have,  which  are  essentially,  'What 
is  it  that  we  can  do  in  the  vineyard  to  improve  wine 
quality?'" 

Ultimately  the  answer  was,  "You  can  fund  research." 
[laughs]   So  we,  these  wineries,  formed  an  association- -Simi, 
Domaine  Chandon,  Mondavi,  Beringer,  [Joseph]  Phelps,  Christian 
Brothers.   We  each  put  up  money  every  year,  and  that  money 
went  into  a  joint  pot.   We  asked  the  UC  Davis  viticulture 
professors  to  make  proposals  to  us  about  research  that  they 
were  interested  in  doing  that  would  address  the  issue  of, 
"What  can  I  do  in  the  vineyard  to  improve  wine  quality?"  That 
association  is  still  continuing,  with  some  slightly  different 
wineries. 

Hicke:   Does  it  have  a  name? 

Long:    It's  the  North  Coast  Viticultural  Research  Group.   It  has  been 
a  very  powerful  influence  for  a  couple  of  reasons.   One, 
wineries  in  the  group  were  very  powerful ,  they  were  respected 
as  leaders ,  they  also  purchased  a  lot  of  grapes ,  and  they  had 
their  own  vineyards.   We  had  so  many  questions  in  that  time 
period- -of  course,  Simi  particularly,  because  we  were  starting 
to  plant  vineyards.   Our  questions  were,  "What  do  we  want  to 
do  with  this  vineyard?"  To  go  back  to  the  similes,  I've 
likened  putting  in  a  vineyard  to  building  a  house.   I  mean, 
when  you  build  a  house,  it's  a  big  investment,  you  have  an 
opportunity  at  that  time  to  stop  and  think,  "How  do  I  want  to 
live  my  life?  How  is  this  house  design  going  to  suit  that?" 
Then  you  build  it.   You  can  remodel  it,  but  you  don't  want  to 
rebuild  it. 

So  starting  a  new  vineyard  provides  a  lot  of  opportunity 
of  the  same  kind:   what  is  it  that  you  really  want  to  look  at 
in  the  next  ten  years?  For  us  the  answers  were  that  we  wanted 
to  look  at  these  different  varietals,  different  root  stocks, 
different  spacings,  different  trellising,  and  different 
clones.   So  we  established  a  vineyard  in  two  phases  that 
addressed  all  of  those  issues.   Those  were  similar  issues  to 
the  other  members  of  this  group. 


55 


What  I  think  was  happening,  as  I  mentioned  earlier,  is 
that  we  came  to  the  end  of  the  development  stage  in 
winemaking,  and  it  seemed  like  the  most  essential  questions  of 
the  time  were  the  vineyard  questions.   It  was  a  very  exciting 
period,  because  we  would  get  all  of  these  questions  out  on  the 
table.   We  put  in  a  close-spaced  vineyard  in  1984  which  was 
one  of  the  first  close-space  vineyards  in  California. 
Subsequently  other  wineries  did  that,  and  by,  say,  the  mid- 
eighties,  most  of  the  group  had  at  least  some  experiments  in 
spacing,  trellising,  rootstock,  clones,  water  relations.   We 
would  not  only  meet  to  fund  and  hear  results  of  the  UC  Davis 
research  work;  we  would  exchange  information  about  our 
projects. 

What  we  were  doing  was  deriving  fairly  quickly  our 
knowledge  of  those  aspects  of  viticulture  and  the  impact  on 
the  wine  by,  as  a  group,  developing  projects  and  sharing  the 
information.   This  wasn't  managed;  it  just  happened.   People 
were  so  excited  about  these  questions  and  these  prospects  that 
these  things  just  happened. 

Hicke:   Was  each  winery  doing  something  a  little  different? 

Long:    Each  winery  made  its  own  decision  about  what  it  wanted  to  do. 
There  was  no  group  saying,  "Okay,  now  we're  all  going  to  do 
this  and  that."   But  there  was  this  tremendous  flow  of 
intellectual  energy  that  resulted  in  a  lot  of  different  group 
projects. 

Typically  the  research  work  that  we  funded  was  done  in 
one  of  our  vineyards.   For  example,  right  now  Dr.  Deborah 
Elliott-Fisk  and  Dr.  Ann  Noble  from  UC  Davis  are  doing  a  study 
in  Simi's  vineyards  on  the  effect  of  soils  and  vine  canopy  on 
Cabernet  composition.   That  research  is  being  funded  by  this 
group.   Through  the  years  we've  funded  research  in  the  various 
members '  vineyards . 

Hicke:   That  packet  you  sent  me  is  wonderful,  so  maybe  we'll  include 
some  of  that  as  illustrative  material.   [See  appendix.] 

Long:    That  would  be  terrific. 

I'm  talking  quite  a  bit  about  this  group,  but  I  think 
it's  a  very  important  group.   The  other  thing  that  I  saw 
happen  was  that  because  we  were  asking  the  viticulture 
professors  at  UC  Davis  these  questions,  they  were  beginning  to 
look  at  them  more  themselves.   What  we  were  doing  was  asking 


56 


them  to  evaluate  their  work  in  terms  of  the  wine  quality,  so 
the  end  product  wasn't  going  to  be  the  grape;  it  was  going  to 
be  the  wine.   We  were  looking  at  wine  composition,  the  tasting 
of  wine,  the  levels  of  phenols  and  the  quality  of  the  phenols 
as  the  end  result  of  the  viticultural  work. 

Hicke:   You  were  stimulating  the  University's  research. 

Long:    We  were  stimulating  them,  and  what  we  noticed  was  that  by, 
say,  '83,  '84,  '85,  they  were  doing  other  research  projects 
that  we  were  not  funding  that  were  addressing  these  issues. 
Furthermore ,  several  of  us  were  involved  on  a  board  level  in 
the  American  Society  of  Enology  and  Viticulture,  and  we  were 
involved  in  the  planning  of  the  technical  sessions  for  that 
group.   We  created  a  part  of  the  sessions,  called  the  Forum, 
and  we  started  to  bring  in  people  from  around  the  world  to 
discuss  these  viticultural  issues.   I  think  it  was  as  early  as 
1985  that  we  had  a  symposium  at  Reno,  where  we  brought  in 
viticulturalists  from  around  the  world  to  discuss  these  canopy 
issues.   So  we  were  bringing  in  experts  from  outside  the 
United  States,  which  furthered  this  intellectual  ferment. 

At  the  same  time,  the  wineries  that  were  purchasing 
grapes- -Simi ,  Mondavi- -were  starting  to  talk  to  their  growers 
about  things:   "We're  doing  this,  we're  doing  that;  we  like 
this,  we  like  that,"  so  the  experiments  that  we  were  trying 
were  spreading  out  through  the  industry.   It's  my  belief  that 
this  very  small  group  of  people  was  the  forerunner  and  the 
central  cell  that  generated  most  of  the  early  viticultural 
energy.   The  fact  that  we  were  looking  at  these  things  in  our 
vineyards,  that  these  were  winery  leaders,  and  that  we  were 
funding  research  and  stimulating  these  questions  on  other 
researchers  was  a  very  powerful  combination. 

The  viticultural  issues  elucidated  in  the  1980s  were,  I 
believe,  most  important  for  Cabernet.   These  were  the  issues 
of  canopy  management- -in  1981,  Richard  Smart,  who  is  a 
viticulturalist  in  New  Zealand,  came  through  and  discussed  the 
work  that  he  had  done,  showing  that  if  you  changed  the  way 
that  the  grapevine  displays  its  leaves  you  can  impact  the 
grape  composition  in  terms  of  color,  amount  and  quality  of 
tannins,  and  flavor.   This  was  an  exciting  new  tool;  we  could 
train  the  vines,  and  we  could  have  an  impact  on  the  wines. 
That  was  really  explored  in  great  detail  through  the  eighties. 
Water  relations --what  are  the  relationships  between  the  amount 
and  timing  that  the  vine  gets  water  to  concentration  of  flavor 
and  to  quality  of  the  tannins? 


57 


With  Cabernet  in  particular,  the  vineyard  issues  were 
ripe  fruit  flavors,  i.e.,  moving  away  from  the  herbaceous, 
vegetative  flavors  that  we  saw  more  frequently  in  the  early 
seventies  and  the  eighties,  to  the  blackberry,  black  cherry, 
cassis,  very  ripe  fruit  flavors  of  Cabernet- -and  ripe  tannins. 
When  Paul  and  I  were  in  Bordeaux  in  1986,  we  heard  again  and 
again  this  discussion  of  good  tannin  or  ripe  tannin.   The 
Cabernet  grapevine  does  have  the  ability  under  poor 
circumstances  to  produce  very  astringent  tannins,  so  the  goal 
was  to  display  the  fruit  and  balance  the  vine  in  such  a  way 
that  by  the  time  the  grapes  were  ready  to  harvest,  the  tannins 
were  ripe.   It  has  nothing  to  do  with  Brix,  not  a  lot  to  do 
with  flavor,  but  really  with  tannin  quality.   That  was  partly 
in  the  viticulture  and  partly  in  the  timing  of  harvest 
decision. 

In  the  second  half  of  the  eighties  at  Simi  we  developed 
a  link  with  a  professor  of  geography  and  geology  at  UC  Davis 
named  Deborah  Elliott-Fisk.   She  became  fascinated  with 
viticulture  and  the  geography  of  viticulture.   She  came  to  our 
vineyards,  and  she  began  to  help  us  understand  the  geologic 
origin  of  the  vineyards  and  how  that  impacted  the  different 
soils  in  the  vineyards.   She  helped  us  go  through  each  part  of 
our  vineyards  and  explore  the  soils. 

Michael  Black,  who  is  now  vice  president  of  vineyard 
operations,  was  the  individual  who  really  started  the  vineyard 
development  in  1982.   For  example,  in  the  mid- eighties, 
working  with  Deborah,  he  and  Diane  went  through  each  one  of 
our  thirty- six  blocks  with  a  back  hoe,  dug  pits,  and  came  to 
really  understand  the  characteristics  of  the  soil  down  three 
to  five  feet.   They  began  to  be  able  to  better  envision  the 
circumstances  that  the  vine  roots  were  experiencing  and  to 
respond  to  those  circumstances  with  irrigation  practices. 

We  started  out  in  the  early  years  looking  at  clones, 
spacing,  trellising,  and  canopy  management,  and  by  the  second 
half  of  the  eighties  we  were  really  thinking  about  soils, 
water  management,  and  nutrition  management  of  the  soils  and 
how  they  affected  the  canopy,  the  balance,  and  the  flavor 
concentration.   We  discovered  that  the  site  that  we  had  chosen 
for  our  vineyards  was,  in  Deborah's  words,  "one  of  the  most 
complex,  if  not  the  most  complex,  vineyard  site  in  Napa  or 
Sonoma . " 

tt 


58 


Hicke:   The  map  of  your  vineyard  shows  that  each  little  area  has  a 
different  composition. 

Long:    It's  true,  and  we  really  didn't  appreciate  that  when  we  bought 
the  vineyard.   We  were  buying  it  more  because  of  the  area  and 
the  climate  than  the  soil.   What  that  has  meant  to  us  is  that 
it  has  given  us  a  tremendous  complexity  and  variety  within 
that  site,  and  it  has  made  that  vineyard  very  challenging  to 
manage.   [laughter]   In  that  regard  we've  been  very  fortunate 
to  have  Michael  Black,  because  he  has  really  relished  the 
challenge  of  seeing  the  vineyard  as  many  different  parcels  and 
addressing  each  of  those  parcels  as  an  individual. 

Hicke:   It  almost  looks  like  it's  all  experimental. 

Long:    It's  almost  all  experimental;  that's  right.   To  some  people  in 
that  time  frame  that  would  have  been  overwhelming.   It  would 
have  been  overwhelming  to  think  of  it  in  that  way,  but  it 
really  hasn't  been  to  Michael. 

There's  something  else  in  this.   We  are  talking  about 
vineyards,  but  underlying  the  vineyards  in  the  eighties  there 
are  some  important  developments  that  transcend  the  vineyards. 
One  is  the  rise  of  the  viticulturalist.   In  the  winery  the 
winemaking  is  the  successful  interaction  of  the  cellarmaster- - 
he  really  directs  the  people  and  the  operations  of  the 
equipment- -and  the  winemaker,  the  person  who  is  thinking  about 
technical  aspects  of  the  winemaking  process.   I  liken  them  to 
the  architect  and  the  contractor;  the  architect  designs,  and 
the  contractor  builds.   In  the  winery  you  have  the  same  kind 
of  thing;  the  winemaker  designs,  and  the  cellarmaster 
implements,  although  it's  never  that  clear-cut.   I  mean, 
they're  always  working  in  each  other's  areas,  and  to  the 
extent  that  the  relationship  is  successful,  you  make  better 
wine. 

We've  been  fortunate  at  Simi  to  make  winemaking  a  joint 
effort,  a  team  effort,  as  a  priority.   In  the  vineyards  we've 
traditionally  had  the  industry  equivalent  of  a  cellarmaster- - 
the  vineyard  manager,  who  in  the  1970s  saw  his  end  product  as 
grapes ,  so  he  was  concerned  about  a  good  crop  and  vine  health 
and  getting  the  grapes  harvested.   But  in  the  eighties  arose 
the  role  of  the  viticulturalist,  which  is  more  like  the 
winemaker- -a  person  who  has  technical  and  specialized 
knowledge  for  winegrowing,  who  can  tie  the  winemaking  and 
winegrowing  together. 


59 


At  Simi  and  at  a  few  of  the  leading  wineries  in  the 
eighties,  the  position  of  viticulturalist  was  developed.   It 
was  really  a  technical  advisor  to  Mike  and  myself,  who  was 
both  developing  and  implementing  technical  ideas.   Diane  was 
the  person  who  was  seeing  the  wine  as  the  end  product,  then 
making  suggestions  about  how  to  improve  that  wine,  and  working 
with  Mike  to  tie  the  vineyard  and  the  winery  together.   We 
were  very  fortunate  again  with  Michael  Black  as  someone  who 
wanted  to  be  tied  to  the  winery  and  who  saw  the  wine  as  the 
end  product.   It's  really  important  to  emphasize  that  these 
were  mind  sets  that  were  unusual  for  that  time  frame- -to  have 
someone  like  Diane,  who  had  a  wine  background,  a  love  of  wine, 
the  technical  training  of  the  viticulturalist,  and  the  love  of 
the  vineyard;  and  someone  like  Michael  Black,  who  was  the 
vineyard  manager,  who  was  interested  in  seeing  his  end  product 
as  wine,  and  who  had  a  good  relationship  with  the  winery. 
They  were  role  models,  really,  in  that  time  period. 


Management 


Hicke:   We're  talking  about  leadership  here,  too --your  leadership. 
This  is  about  where  you  got  into  the  management  end  of  it. 

Long:    I  would  say  probably  at  Robert  Mondavi  my  greatest 

contributions  were  enological,  but  at  Simi  in  a  sense  my 
greatest  contributions  have  been  viticultural- -not  that  I  was 
a  viticulturalist  or  a  vineyard  manager,  but  I  could  see  that 
enormous  gains  we  were  going  to  make  in  the  eighties  could  be 
made  in  the  vineyard.   The  way  to  do  that  was  to  begin  to  do 
the  kind  of  research  that  was  going  to  allow  us  to  understand 
what  was  going  on  in  the  vineyards  and  to  tie  the  vineyard  and 
the  winery  together  so  that  the  wine  became  the  end  product- - 
winegrowing. 

Certainly  as  I  watched  the  industry  change  in  the 
eighties,  I  saw  winemakers  become  more  interested  in 
vineyards,  but  I  still  think  there's  a  long  distance  to  go.   I 
think  in  the  industry  I  was  the  winemaker  most  focused  on 
viticulture  in  that  decade.   It  was  because  I  was  personally 
fascinated  by  the  vineyards  and  what  we  could  do  out  there  to 
impact  the  wine  quality.   The  thread  was  the  whole  development 
of  this  new  technical  viticulture. 


59a 


*c 


SIMI  WINERY  ESTATE  VINEYARDS 

ALEXANDER  VALLEY.  SONOMA  COUNTY 


Simi's  estate  vineyards  are  located  in  the  southeast  corner  of  the  Alexander  Valley  appellation 
in  Sonoma  County.  Planted  between  I983and  1985. all  174  acres  are  now  producing  99  acres 
are  Cabernet  Sauvignon.  1 7  acres  Cabernet  Franc.  8  acres  Merlot.  3  acres  Petit  Verdot.  26  acres 
Chardonnay  and  18  acres  are  Sauvignon  Blanc. 


59b 


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CLOSE  SPACING  WITH  ROOT  STOCK 
AND  CLONE  VARIATIONS 


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HT-I  SELECTION.  I  IOR  ROOT  STOCK.  4W  x  6W 


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TH  SELECTION.  I  IOR  ROOT  STOCK.  6'  x  10' 


HT-I  SELECTION.  S04  ROOT  STOCK.  6'  x  10' 


SIMI  WINERY  ESTATE  VINEYARDS 

CABERNET  SAUVIGNON  VINE  TRAINING  AND  SPACING  COMPARISON 

Puroose:  To  comoare  viticultural  and  winemakina  differences  between  the  California  standard      i  n  a. 


59c 


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S1MI  WINERY 


TRELLIS  CROSSSECTION  CROSS-SECTION  WITH  VINE. 


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ROW  SECTION  WITH  VINE  PLACEMENT 


59f 


OPEN  LYRE  TRELLIS 


SIMI  WINERY 


TRELLIS  CROSS-SECTION 


CROSS-SECTION  WITH  VINE 


SIDE  VIEW 


ROW  SECTION  WITH  VINE  PLACEMENT 


59g 


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TKfLLIS  CK'CSSStCIIO\  CROSS-SECTION  WITH  VINE 


SIDE  VIEW 


ROtt  SECTION  WITH  V!\E  PL.ACLMENT 


60 


The  other  thing  that  was  interesting  in  that  time 
period,  and  I  think  it  tied  in  somewhat  to  the  tenor  of  the 
times  and  this  research  group ,  was  that  at  UC  Davis  for  the 
first  time  the  research  work  done  by  the  viticulturalists  and 
the  enologists  began  to  be  tied  together.   At  UC  Davis  there 
is  a  Department  of  Enology  and  Viticulture,  and  their 
professors,  for  the  most  part,  had  done  separate  work,  with 
the  viticulturalists  seeing  the  end  product  as  grapes  and  the 
enologists  seeing  the  end  product  as  wine.   Partly  because  of 
our  research  group  and  our  emphasis  on  the  wine  being  the  end 
product,  in  the  1980s  there  began  to  be  joint  work,  which,  if 
you  think  about  it,  was  incredible  that  it  hadn't  happened 
before. 

I  have  to  say  that  the  viticultural  changes  in  the  1980s 
were  revolutionary  for  our  industry  and  have  provided  a 
completely  new  base  for  development  in  the  nineties.   People 
may  think  we've  come  a  long  way,  but  I  can  see  that  we  just 
built  a  base  in  the  eighties  that  will  allow  us  to  do  many 
more  things  in  the  nineties. 


Hicke:   That's  one  of  the  reasons  we're  here  doing  this,  to  document 
all  of  that.   I  do  think  it  was  important  that  when  you  moved 
into  the  management  of  the  entire  business  you  had  this  idea 
of  working  together. 

Long:    It  was  important.   The  steps  we  took  at  that  time  were  new 
steps,  but  we've  gone  a  step  beyond  that  and  created 
essentially  a  wine -growing  team,  which  is  a  structure  that 
further  brings  together  in  an  even  higher- level ,  interactive 
mode,  our  winemaker;  our  laboratory  director;  our 
viticulturalist ;  our  cellarmaster ;  Michael  Black,  our  vice 
president  of  vineyards;  and  his  assistant,  Keith  Horn- -talking 
about  what  we're  trying  to  accomplish,  what  the  end  goals  are. 

For  example,  we  have  a  consultant  from  Bordeaux  named 
Michel  Holland.   He  has  grown  up  in  Bordeaux  and  has  a  large 
consulting  practice  located  primarily  in  Pomerol  and 
St.  Emilon.   He  was  here  last  week,  looking  at  the  vineyards. 
The  focus  of  his  visit  was  the  condition  and  particular  nature 
of  the  Cabernet  this  vintage,  for  1991,  and  what  impact  that 
might  have  on  harvest  decisions  and  winemaking  decisions. 
When  he  was  out  in  the  vineyard,  looking  at  the  grapes, 
Michael  Black  was  there,  Diane  Kenworthy  was  there,  our 
vineyard  manager  and  viticulturalist;  Keith  Horn,  assistant 
vineyard  manager;  Nick  Goldschmidt,  our  winemaker;  Monika 


61 


Chris tman,  our  lab  director.   All  of  these  people  who  will  be 
part  of  that  ultimate  growing  of  the  wine  were  together, 
discussing  what's  going  on  in  this  vineyard  and  what  that  is 
going  to  mean  to  the  winemaking. 

When  we  work  with  Michel,  we  start  with  the  wines.   He's 
worked  with  our  wines  for  about  five  years,  so  he  knows  this 
is  the  wine  we  make  from  this  piece  of  land;  so  let's  go  look 
at  this  piece  of  land  and  think  about  the  timing  of  the 
harvest  and  the  management  of  that  land.   When  we  bring  in 
consultants  we're  always  doing  the  same  thing:   these  are  the 
wines  that  we  are  making  from  this  piece  of  land;  let's  talk 
about  the  management  of  that  piece  of  land  toward  the  end  goal 
of  this  kind  of  wine.   I  think  about  it  as  a  circle.   The 
circle  begins  with  the  tasting  of  the  previous  vintage  by  the 
vineyard  and  winery  people  and  an  assessment  of  the  wines  from 
each  plot  of  ground- -what  are  their  strengths,  what  are  their 
weaknesses.   When  the  vineyard  cycle  starts- -pruning,  the 
leafing  out,  the  bloom- -what  is  it  in  each  step  of  the  cycle 
that  is  going  to  address  the  questions  or  the  issues  we  have 
with  any  particular  piece  of  ground?   How  are  we  going  to 
change  our  viticulture  techniques  for  that  piece  of  ground? 

Then  harvest  approaches,  and  we're  tasting  the  fruit. 
We're  thinking,  "What  are  the  characteristics  of  this 
particular  site  in  this  vintage,  and  therefore  how  are  we 
going  to  respond  in  our  winemaking?"   After  harvest  we  taste 
the  wines  again,  and  we  say,  "How  did  we  do?  Last  year  at 
this  time  this  site  had  these  strengths  and  these  weaknesses 
and  these  questions  to  address;  how  effective  were  we  in  the 
vineyard  and  the  winery  and  in  the  two  coming  together  in 
addressing  those  issues,  answering  the  questions, 
strengthening  the  wine?" 

Hicke:   How  many  pieces  of  ground  are  we  talking  about? 

Long:    Thirty-six.   [laughter]   Then  the  question  starts  over  again: 
what  about  for  next  year?   So  it's  this  circle  of  interaction 
that  just  keeps  moving  for  the  goal  of  quality  improvements 
for  the  wines  from  that  vineyard. 

Hicke:   And  this  is  just  Cabernet  that  we're  talking  about? 

Long:  This  is  just  Cabernet.  But  this  is  a  good  model  for  what  I 
would  call  sophisticated  winegrowing  in  the  1990s,  and  it's 
what  it  will  take  to  make  outstanding  wines  in  the  1990s. 


62 


Hicke:   This  is  probably  impossible  to  say,  but  how  many  different 
wines  do  you  think  you  make  in  experimenting  with  all  these 
questions? 

Long:    We  could  count,  but  I  would  guess  four  hundred  every  year. 

Hicke:   Again,  it  looks  very  complicated.   I  think  the  important  thing 
is  that  this  is  where  you're  going  with  it. 

Long:    I  think  perhaps  you  can  recognize  from  what  I've  said  that 

intrinsic  in  that  is  continuity.   As  far  as  continuity  with  a 
vineyard  site,  we  work  with  it  two  or  three  or  five  years. 
The  more  we  work  with  it,  the  more  we  understand  it,  the 
better  job  we'll  do,  whether  we're  buying  the  grapes  or 
growing  the  grapes.   Continuity  with  the  people  is  important, 
because  they  build  up  their  understanding  of  the  process  and 
of  the  vineyards.   Ours  is  a  business  that  does  not  benefit 
from  constant  turnover.   It's  a  business  that  in  a  sense  is 
contrary  to  our  current  culture,  which  is  quick  change  and 
quick  decisions.   That's  really  not  what  fine  winemaking  is 
all  about.   It's  about  long-term  thinking  and  long-term 
development. 

Hicke:   That's  another  management  challenge,  dealing  with  people  to 
assure  continuity,  and  with  the  growers. 

Long:    It  is,  there's  no  question  about  it. 

Hicke:   Do  you  find  that  more  challenging  or  as  interesting  as  just 
dealing  with  wines  as  an  enologist? 

Long:    When  you  look  at  the  managing  of  the  business,  it's  not  that 
different  conceptually.   You  have  different  parts  of  the 
business- -you  have  sales,  your  vineyards,  your  winemaking, 
your  finance  administration- -and  they're  all  parts  that  have 
to  be  pulled  together  to  grow  a  fine  business,  as  we  pull 
together  different  parts  of  the  winemaking  process,  the 
equipment,  and  the  grapes  to  make  a  fine  wine.   In  the 
winemaking  process,  the  central  character  is  the  wine,  in 
essence.   You're  trying  to  build  a  system,  a  model,  a  way  of 
looking  at  things  and  responding  that  will  create  the  kind  of 
wine  you  want.   With  a  business,  the  central  character  is  the 
people.   You're  trying  to  build  a  group  of  people  who  will 
bring  the  talents  and  the  commitment  to  allow  the  business  to 
be  what  you  want  it  to  be . 


63 


Conceptually  it's  not  that  different.   As  with 
winemaking,  which  is  complicated  (as  you've  mentioned),  it's 
providing  that  kind  of  an  atmosphere  where  they  have  a  chance 
to  be  creative,  to  make  a  difference,  to  be  respected,  to  be 
heard,  to  be  committed.   That's  what  everyone  is  always  trying 
to  do,  and  it's  much  easier  said  than  done.   It's  part  of  the 
new  challenge  for  me,  absolutely. 

Hicke:   And  probably  equally  frustrating  at  times. 
Long:    Yes.   [laughs] 

Hicke:   There  are  several  things  I  want  to  mention  here.   Maybe  you've 
alluded  to  this;  I  know  you  have  an  image  not  only  of  what 
your  wine  should  be  but  of  what  the  business  should  be- -what 
Simi  should  be.   All  of  the  new  buildings  and  everything  fit 
that  image.   Could  you  elaborate  on  that  a  little  bit? 

Long:    I'll  describe  the  image,  and  I  can  say  with  accuracy  that  this 
is  the  image  that  I  inherited  from  Michael  Dixon;  this  is  the 
model  he  worked  on.   It's  an  image  that  was  supported  and 
encouraged  by  Moet-Hennessy  [owner  of  Simi],  and  I  think  it's 
an  image  or  a  vision  that's  shared  by  the  people  here.   Simi 
is  essentially  a  wine  business- -not  a  big  business  but  a  small 
business --producing  an  extraordinary  level  of  quality,  with 
the  ability  to  do  that  consistently  and  to  continue  to  improve 
and  evolve  both  the  quality  and  the  style.   There  are  not  that 
many  wineries  that  have  actually  been  able  to  do  that 
successfully  over  time. 

Some  of  our  most  wonderful  memories  are  of  winemakers 
who  come  into  our  tasting  room  unannounced  and  taste  through 
the  wines  and  then  say,  "Every  one  of  your  wines  is 
excellent."  That's  not  that  easy  to  accomplish.   Recently  I 
did  a  tasting  with  Brian  Croser,  an  Australian  winemaker,  and 
we  tasted  1980  through  1990  Chardonnay  Reserve  with  the 
winemaking  staff.   Those  wines  were  outstanding.   They  were 
all  still  wonderful.   They  were  different;  some  were  stronger, 
some  had  evolved  in  a  more  exciting  way.   But  they  were  all 
still  wonderful  wines.   It  was  just  very  special  to  stop  and 
look  back  on  those  wines . 

So  that's  the  core  and  motivating  force  for  the  people 
here- -to  do  something,  to  be  involved  in  something  that  is 
really  high  quality,  whether  it's  the  business  itself  or  the 
wine  itself.   From  a  business  point  of  view,  because  we're  a 
small  business,  that  quality  and  the  reputation  for  quality  is 


64 


really  crucial  for  us  to  be  profitable,  because  we're  not 
turning  out  millions  of  cases  of  wine. 


Developing  an  International  Business 


Hicke:   That  brings  me  to  my  next  question,  which  is  how  this  more 
international  marketing  goal  developed. 

Long:    First  of  all,  Michael  Dixon,  our  former  chairman,  is  British, 
so  he  has  international  roots.   Of  course,  our  ownership  is 
French,  so  the  winery  was  very  internationally  rooted.   You 
have  to  say  that  the  wine  business  is  international;  wines  are 
produced  all  over  the  world.   I  don't  know  exactly  what  date, 
but  I  would  guess  around  the  mid-eighties,  Michael  started  to 
develop  our  export  business. 

When  I  was  getting  ready  to  transition  into  the 
presidency  in  1988,  I  was  sent  to  Stanford  for  a  program 
called  the  Stanford  Executive  Program.   It  was  a  two-month 
program  for  180  executives,  half  of  whom  were  from  outside  the 
United  States.   That  was  key  for  me  in  not  only  hearing  about 
but  feeling  the  international  energy  and  economic  activity  in 
the  sense  of  the  linkage  of  the  world  in  an  economic  sense.   I 
came  back  convinced  that  our  export  program  was  crucial  to 
Simi  for  the  long  term. 

I  think  at  that  time  Moet,  our  mother  company,  had  some 
questions  about  that.   They  really  said,  "Your  primary  focus 
should  be  in  the  United  States,"  but  their  vision  has  changed, 
too,  so  they  see  Simi  as  a  winery  that  needs  to  be  developing 
its  international  market  in  business. 


Hicke:   Your  persuasion? 

Long:    I  think  Michael  and  I  felt  the  same  and  equally  strongly,  and 
we  basically  just  kept  going  in  that  direction.   I  can't  say 
what  changed  at  Moet,  but  it's  natural  of  Moet,  who  themselves 
have  been  extraordinarily  successful  because  of  international 
sales,  to  see  it  that  way.   Perhaps  it  was  just  giving  them  a 
little  bit  of  time  to  work  it  through  in  their  own  minds. 

Hicke:   We  haven't  talked  at  all  about  the  relationship  of  Moet  and 
when  they  took  over  Schieffelin  [&  Co]  or  when  Schieffelin 
bought  out-- 


65 


Long:    Schieffelin  bought  Simi  in  1976,  before  I  came.   Michael  Dixon 
had  purchased  Simi  for  Scottish  &  Newcastle  [Vintners],  I 
think  in  '74,  and  then  he  sold  Simi  to  Schieffelin- -not 
Schieffelin  &  Somerset- -in  1976  and  stayed  on  as  the  business 
manager  and  president. 


66 


V   CHANGES  AND  CONCERNS  OF  THE  WINE  INDUSTRY 
[Interview  2:   January  2,  1992 ]//// 

Linkage  Between  Viticulture  and  Winemaking 


Hicke:   Let's  start  with  some  of  the  notes  you  made  as  you  were 

reviewing  the  first  part  of  the  transcript.   I  think  the  first 

thing  you  wanted  to  talk  about  was  the  linkage  between  the 
vineyard  and  the  winemaking. 

Long:    when  I  came  into  the  industry  in  1970,  the  roles  of  the 

vineyard  and  the  winery  were  very  different  from  the  way  they 
are  today.   I  want  to  go  back  and  review  the  evolution, 
because  I  think  it's  significant  for  our  California  history. 
In  1970,  the  vineyard  was  farmed  primarily  by  an  owner  or  a 
manager  of  that  vineyard;  wineries  had  a  much  lower  percentage 
of  ownership  in  the  grapes  that  they  crushed  than  they  do  now. 
The  end  product  of  the  vineyard  was  seen  to  be  the  grapes. 
The  grapes  were  delivered  to  the  winery,  and  the  winemaker 
would  would  begin  to  develop  an  understanding  of  those  grapes 
only  when  they  showed  up  on  the  doorstep  at  harvest.   Then  it 
was  the  winemaker 's  responsibility  to  make  them  into  wine. 

The  most  interesting  thing  about  that  structure  was  that 
it  reflected  the  University.   The  University  of  California  at 
Davis 's  Department  of  Enology  and  Viticulture,  in  its  very 
name,  would  imply  the  integration  of  those  two  disciplines, 
but  in  fact  at  that  time  they  were  quite  separate.   They  were 
physically  in  the  same  department,  and  of  course  they 
interacted  with  each  other,  but  the  research  was  quite 
separate.   There  were  not  research  projects  that  were  done 
jointly  between  enologists  and  viticulturalists .   Most  of  the 


67 


time  the  evaluation  of  the  viticultural  work  was  in  terms  of 
either  tonnage  (yield)  or  vine  health,  or  the  Brix,  acid,  and 
pH  of  the  grapes.   There  was  very  little  translation  of  the 
viticultural  experimental  work  into  the  sensory  aspects  of 
wine.   Then  there  were  the  winemaking  experiments,  and  they 
were  evaluated  by  a  very  rigorous  sensory  evaluation  system. 

These  separate  roles,  in  industry  and  university, 
continued  through  the  seventies.   As  I've  mentioned  earlier, 
in  the  seventies  the  winery  would  pay  for  grapes  on  the  basis 
of  Brix.   Brix  was  the  implied  desired  end  product  of  grape 
growing . 

In  the  eighties,  the  attitude  on  the  part  of  the  winery 
toward  the  vineyard  began  to  change.   Over  that  ten-year 
period,  winemakers  were  more  active  in  the  vineyard;  they  were 
seeking  to  understand  the  viticulture  and  the  implications  of 
viticulture  on  wine  composition  and  quality.   In  the  early 
eighties,  Dr.  Richard  Smart  came  from  Australia,  for  example, 
and  said  that  the  way  that  you  manipulate  the  canopy  or  leaves 
over  the  Cabernet  fruit  while  it's  ripening  has  a  major  impact 
on  tannin  quality,  perception  of  texture,  color,  and  on  flavor 
development.   In  essence,  he  was  saying  that  if  you  change 
canopy  in  the  vineyard,  you're  going  to  change  your  wine 
composition  and  quality.   That  was  a  very  powerful  linkage, 
and  I  think  it  was  the  trigger  for  the  development  in  the 
eighties  of  our  North  Coast  Viticultural  Research  Group,  which 
was  a  group  that  began  to  see  the  end  product  of  viticultural 
efforts  as  the  wine ,  not  the  grapes . 

In  the  eighties  these  changes  were  also  reflected  at  the 
University;  the  enologists  and  viticulturalists  began  to 
collaborate  more  on  projects.   The  viticulturalists  began  to 
make  and  evaluate  wine  as  an  outcome  of  the  different 
experiments,  and  they  began  to  struggle  with  the  concept,  "How 
do  I  quantify  the  results  of  the  viticultural  effort  in  terms 
of  wine?"  That's  not  a  simple  thing  to  do.   Let  me  just  give 
you  an  example.   You're  a  winemaker;  you're  reading  a  piece  of 
technical  literature  about  some  work  a  viticulturalist  did  in 
canopy  management.   He's  trying  to  communicate  to  you  that  it 
made  a  great  difference  in  the  wine,  but  how  can  you  quantify 
that? 

The  challenge  is  that  it  is  still  difficult  to 
scientifically  quantify  the  taste  of  wine.   Dr.  Ann  Noble, 
whose  area  of  research  at  UC  Davis  is  sensory  evaluation,  has 
worked  out  a  system  that  can  begin  to  describe  the 


68 


personality- -i.e. ,  flavors,  and  aromas--of  wines  differently 
in  a  quantifiable  way.  She  has  begun  to  really  address  this 
problem. 

In  California,  we  have  come  an  enormous  distance  in  the 
linkage  of  the  vineyard  and  the  winery.   What  remains  to  be 
done,  not  only  in  California  but  around  the  world,  is  to  find 
a  way  to  quantifiably  communicate  the  results  of  scientific 
and  viticultural  efforts  in  the  wine.   The  way  our  Research 
Group  quantifies  results  is  by  tasting  the  wines.   We 
financially  support  the  viticulturalists'  research  and  say, 
"We're  interested  in  the  wine  as  the  end  product  of  your 
work."  How  do  we  evaluate  the  work?  We  taste  it.   But  of 
course  if  you  are  a  scientist,  you  can't  rely  on  people  around 
the  world  tasting  the  wines  you've  made;  you  have  to  find  a 
way  to  quantify  them  and  to  effectively,  scientifically, 
communicate  results. 

Hicke :   Are  you  talking  about  the  wheel  that  she  developed? 

Long:    Dr.  Noble  developed  an  aroma  wheel,  but  she  has  also  developed 
what  I  call  a  "spider  diagram,"  which  is  a  way  of  identifying 
not  only  the  particular  aroma  components  a  wine  has,  but  the 
amount  of  each  of  those  components- -and  then  displaying  it 
visually.   So  you  can  begin  to  try  to  envision  the  different 
personalities  of  the  wine. 

Hicke:   Do  you  have  to  do  this  on  a  computer? 

Long:    Yes.   The  computer  is  used  extensively  in  her  work. 

What  I'm  describing  is  a  scientific  technique.   It's  not 
something  I  see  being  used  in  a  winery,  because  we  quantify 
the  efforts  of  our  own  vineyard-viticultural  work  by  tasting 
the  wine.   But  in  the  larger  picture,  it  is  important  that  the 
world  of  science  find  a  way  to  communicate  more  effectively 
about  wine  aromas,  flavor,  balance,  and  personality. 

In  the  decade  of  the  nineties,  I  see  a  continuation  in 
this  movement  of  the  linkage  of  the  vineyard  and  the  winery. 
One  example  of  better  linkage  is  the  developing  role  of  the 
viticulturalist,  who  is  the  technical  person  in  the  vineyard 
who  sees  wine  as  the  end  product.   Here  at  Simi  we're  putting 
a  tremendous  amount  of  emphasis  and  energy  on  the  ability  of 
the  whole  winemaking  team  to  understand  what's  happening  in 
the  vineyard  and  to  be  able  to  give  effective  feedback  to  the 
vineyard  managers  about  the  nature  of  the  wines,  their 


69 


strengths  and  weaknesses,  so  that  the  vineyard  people  have  an 
essential  grasp  of  the  wines.   For  example,  if  I  say  to  our 
winemaking  and  wine  growing  team,  "We  need  to  improve  the 
quality  of  the  Cabernet  Franc  from  our  vineyard,"  it's 
essential  that  everyone  have  a  common  understanding  of  what 
that  wine  is  like --what  its  strengths  and  weaknesses  are --so 
each  individual  can  envision  how  to  support  growth  and 
development  of  that  wine  in  their  area  of  expertise. 
Improvement  might  come  from  a  change  in  pruning,  the  watering 
process,  the  timing  of  harvest;  from  analyzing  some  of  the 
components  of  the  wine  in  order  to  get  a  better  understanding; 
or  from  the  vinification.   But  that  wine  won't  reach  its 
ultimate  quality  level  until  all  of  the  thinking  of  the 
vineyard  and  the  winery  is  integrated  toward  the  particular 
goal  of  quality,  composition,  flavor,  and  structure. 
Everybody  must  have  a  common  understanding. 

Hicke:   How  do  you  actually  do  this?  Do  you  have  daily  or  weekly 
meetings  when  the  winemakers  go  out  to  the  vineyards? 

Long:    We're  developing  two  teams- -a  winemaking  and  a  winegrowing 
team.   The  winemaking  team  members  are  our  cellarmaster , 
laboratory  director,  winemaker,  assistant  winemaker,  and 
viticulturalist .   Two  of  those,  the  winemaker  and  the 
viticulturalist ,  are  also  on  the  winegrowing  team,  with  our 
vineyard  manager  and  his  assistant.   These  teams  develop 
specific  goals,  based  on  our  winery  quality  orientation,  and 
work  together  to  achieve  them. 

It  is  important  to  bring  the  vineyard  people  into  the 
winery  and  have  them  taste  the  wines  and  observe  the 
winemaking  process,  so  they  begin  to  have  (for  example)  their 
own  intimate  sense  that:   "These  are  our  grapes  from  this 
hillside  'Block  10,'  and  the  wine  tastes  of  deep  berry 
flavors,  good  tannin,  delicious."   They're  not  waving  goodbye 
to  the  grapes  as  they  go  into  the  gondola  and  go  out  to  the 
winery;  they're  maintaining  their  continuity  of  relationship 
and  seeing  those  grapes  transformed  into  wine.   They're 
beginning  to  think  of  that  plot  of  land  in  terms  of  the  wine 
and  not  the  grapes . 

The  most  important  change  is  changing  people's  thinking. 
That's  the  first  thing  you  have  to  do.   When  the  people  in  the 
vineyard  look  at  a  piece  of  land,  they  have  to  see  in  their 
mind's  eye  and  taste  the  wine  from  that  land.   The  people  in 
the  winery,  when  they  look  at  a  wine,  have  to  see  the  soil  and 
the  vines  that  it  came  from.   Until  those  people  can  have 


70 


those  visions,  you  won't  get  a  complete  linkage,  and  you  won't 
make  the  best  wine  from  that  piece  of  land. 

Hicke:   It's  also  absolutely  necessary  that  the  winery  own  the 
vineyard,  then,  isn't  it? 

Long:    Your  ability  to  achieve  complete  linkage  is  increased  a 

hundredfold  if  you  own  the  land.   We  found,  though,  that  we 
can  enhance  our  ability  to  work  with  a  grower  by  working  with 
their  piece  of  land  for  a  long  time.   Most  of  our  Chardonnay 
growers,  for  example,  have  been  working  with  us  for  ten  years. 
We  have  been  in  those  vineyards  many  times  and  know  the  owner- 
managers,  and  in  most  cases  we  have  established  a  close 
relationship  with  them.   We  know  their  vineyards;  we  can  close 
our  eyes  and  see  the  land,  the  grapes,  over  many  years.   That 
enhances  our  ability  to  do  a  better  job.   We  want  also  to 
develop  the  linkage  the  other  way,  so  for  each  vineyard  that 
we  buy  grapes  from,  we  taste  that  wine  with  the  owner-manager 
and  talk  about  it- -taste  it  in  a  context  of  the  other  wines  of 
that  variety  that  we  make.   It's  not  as  powerful  a  linkage  our 
own  vineyard,  but  it's  still  a  good  linkage,  with  potential 
for  more  development. 


The  Concept  of  Terroir 


Hicke:   Does  this  bring  us  to  the  concept  of  terroir? 

Long:    Terroir  is  a  French  word,  and  it  has  often  been  misunderstood 
to  mean  "soil."  The  French  talk  a  lot  about  how  crucial 
terroir  is  to  their  wines;  how  terroir  creates  the  wine's 
personality.   Terroir  really  means  "vine  environment."   It  is 
everything- -soil ,  climate- -that  the  wine  sees  and  experiences. 
I'm  sure  you're  familiar  with  this  feeling  in  very  traditional 
winegrowing  areas  that  there  are  distinctive  personality 
differences  in  wines  from  one  plot  of  land  to  another.   Why 
would  that  be?  The  more  I've  thought  about  terroir,  the  more 
impressed  I've  been  with  the  degree  of  difference  that  is 
possible  from  one  site  to  another. 


First,  consider  the  soil.   For  example,  in  Sonoma  County 
there  are  sixty  different  kinds  of  bedrock  which  generate 
soil.   That's  enormous  diversity.   But  if  you  go  onto  a  site 
and  dig  down  with  a  backhoe ,  the  soil  is  never  one  layer.   It 


71 


can  be  two,  three,  or  five  layers,  and  they  can  each  be  a 
different  depth.   From  the  perspective  of  the  vine's  root,  the 
number  of  layers  it  hits,  their  depth,  composition,  and  water- 
holding  capacity  are  going  to  make  a  major  difference  to  the 
vine.   There  are  not  only  the  big  differences  in  soils,  there 
are  the  differences  just  in  terms  of  the  layers,  the  depth, 
the  water-holding  capacity,  the  ability  to  drain,  and  the 
nutritional  value  in  each  of  those  layers. 

I  have  seen  soils  in  other  parts  of  the  world  that  are 
very  uniform  from  top  to  bottom,  and  they  don't  provide  a 
great  deal  of  variety  for  the  vines.   Sometimes  you  see  soil 
with  two  layers;  or  you  have  what  we  call  a  clay  pan,  a  hard 
layer  that  the  vine  roots  can't  penetrate.   Underneath  the 
soil,  in  ways  you  can't  see,  is  an  enormous  diversity  of 
conditions  that  impact  what  the  vine  roots  are  going  to  be 
doing. 

Above  the  ground  you  have  the  conditions  of  sun:   how 
many  days  of  sunlight  will  the  vine  experience  in  a  growing 
season- -in  the  ripening  season.   How  long  are  the  days? 
what's  the  angle  of  the  sun?  What  is  the  heat,  both  during 
the  day  and  during  the  night?  Heat  during  the  night  is  really 
important,  because  the  vine  has  a  significantly  different 
metabolic  response  to  cool  nights  than  warm  nights.   So 
sunlight,  temperature,  and  moisture- -if  you  read  a  graph  you 
could  see  so  many  inches  of  water  a  year.   But  does  that  come 
in  three  major  rainstorms?  Does  it  come  in  the  form  of  mist, 
ten  days  out  of  thirty?   For  example,  Willamette  Valley  in 
Oregon  and  Sonoma  County  have  a  very  similar  total  rainfall, 
but  the  weather  patterns  for  that  rainfall  are  totally 
different.   We  get  all  of  our  rain  in  the  winter  and  spring, 
and  they  get  it  throughout  the  year,  more  frequently,  with 
less  hard  rains,  more  gentle  rain  and  mist.   We  get  it  a  few 
times  in  hard  rainfall.   Those  variations  make  major 
differences  to  the  growing  conditions  of  the  plant.   Their 
plants  in  the  summer  have  water  naturally,  and  ours  don't,  so 
we  have  to  irrigate.   They  have  more  cloudy  days.   The  amount 
and  timing  of  water  is  important. 

Wind  is  another  factor.   Wind  can  remove  the  water  from 
the  vine  and  from  the  soil,  and  it  can  cause  the  vine  to  close 
down  its  respiration.   If  you're  in  a  windy  site,  the  vine  is 
going  to  have  less  ripening  time  than  it  would  in  the  same 
site  with  all  the  same  conditions  except  no  wind.   Also, 
there's  what  we  call  exposure- -the  direction  that  the  vines 
are  facing.   On  a  hillside,  if  they  are  facing  north,  south, 


72 


east,  or  west,  it  will  dramatically  impact  the  heat  units  they 
experience  and  the  timing  of  those  heat  units. 

So  suddenly  you  start  thinking,  "Nothing  about  sites  is 
the  same;  everything  is  different."  And  it's  true.   It's 
amazing.   One  of  the  things  I  love  about  wine  in  today's  era, 
when  everyone  is  sensitive  to  the  environment- -wine  is 
something  that  is  very  responsive  to  environment.   All  of  our 
food  supply  is  responsive  to  environment,  but  we  don't 
appreciate  that  as  much,  because  agricultural  produce  is  very 
transitory.   But  wine  isn't,  so  these  environmental 
differences  that  affect  the  grapes  are  translated  into  wine, 
and  you  can  read  them.   Wine  is  very  special  in  that  regard. 
It  freezes  in  time,  the  environment  of  the  moment  and  the 
human  effort  of  the  moment. 

Hicke:   You  can't  keep  a  tomato  from  one  year  to  the  next. 

Long:    No,  and  you  can't  taste  the  difference  twenty  years  later. 
And  you  can't  line  up  twenty-five  tomatoes  from  around  the 
world  or  from  different  parts  of  California  and  taste  them, 
but  you  can  do  that  with  wine. 

So  this  is  the  concept  of  terroir,  which  is  integrated 
into  the  idea  of  the  linkage  of  the  vineyard  and  the  winery. 
The  more  we  really  understand  the  growing  conditions  for  our 
vines,  the  better  job  we  can  do  in  viticulture,  responding  to 
those  growing  conditions,  and  in  the  winery,  responding  to  the 
particular  characteristics  of  that  site.   That's  been  a  big 
transition.   When  I  was  in  Davis  in  1970,  it  was  felt  that 
climate- -weather- -was  the  most  important  influence  on  the 
vine,  and  soil  was  very  much  played  down.   In  Europe,  there  is 
a  reverent  feeling  toward  the  soil  and  the  impact  it  has.   But 
it  is  everything  together;  you  have  to  understand  that  it's 
the  whole  environment  of  the  vine,  the  whole  ecosystem,  that 
is  affecting  the  wine. 

Hicke:   Then  everything  like  irrigation,  canopy  management, 

trellising,  and  so  forth,  is  part  of  the  management  of  the 
terroir? 

Long:    That's  right.   There  are  appropriate  responses  to  a  particular 
terroir- -a  particular  vine  environment.   It  wasn't  that  long 
ago- -ten  or  twelve  years  ago- -when  we  were  treating  all 
vineyards  as  if  they  were  the  same --the  pattern  of  planting 
and  selection  of  rootstock.   There  was  no  thought  to  clones; 
there  was  little  thought  to  row  direction,  except  to  the 


73 


contour  of  the  land.   Spacing  was  the  same  and  trellising  very 
similar.   So  it  was  only  a  short  time  ago  that  we  were 
relatively  unresponsive  to  that  idea  of  the  environment  and 
terroir. 

Hicke:   That's  a  huge  step  forward,  I  would  think. 

Long:    One  of  the  actions  we've  taken  in  our  Simi  vineyard,  in  a 

pragmatic  way,  to  deal  with  the  understanding  of  the  soils,  is 
to  go  through  each  of  our  different  sub-plots  of  land,  which 
are  usually  two  or  three  acres,  with  a  backhoe ,  dig  down  four 
or  five  feet,  and  look  at  the  nature  of  the  soil.   When  the 
vineyard  manager  is  irrigating,  for  example,  he  has  in  mind 
what  kind  of  soil  is  down  there  for  the  roots.   Is  the  water 
going  to  be  retained  or  not?   He  knows  now  that  some  areas 
have  to  have  more  water  because  they're  so  well  drained,  and 
in  some  cases  we  found  clay  pan,  so  he  has  had  to  go  in  and 
break  it  up.   It  helps  him  understand  why  some  areas  were  very 
weak  in  growth  and  some  very  strong.   So  that  was  a  very 
practical  response  to  the  idea  of  understanding  terroir  and 
using  that  information  in  vineyard  management. 


The  American  Appellation  System 


Hicke:   Which  of  your  topics  shall  we  discuss  next? 

Long:  Why  don't  we  talk  about  the  American  appellation  system  and 
how  that  ties  into  terroir.  Then  perhaps  we  can  talk  about 
phylloxera;  we'd  still  be  in  the  vineyard  area. 

I  believe  it  was  in  1978  when  the  BATF  [Bureau  of 
Alcohol,  Tobacco,  and  Firearms]  implemented  a  system  for 
defining  geographical  areas  of  grape  growing.   We  are  required 
legally  to  put  the  origin  of  the  grapes  on  the  bottle.   Up  to 
that  time  the  origin  had  been  in  terms  of  a  state  or  a  county. 
Although  people  used  Napa  Valley,  there  wasn't  really  any 
regulation  as  to  what  Napa  Valley  was.   Of  course,  the  county 
lines  were  fairly  clear.   The  BATF  decided  to  develop  a 
nonpolitical  appellation;  a  political  appellation  is  one  whose 
lines  are  defined  by  county  or  state  boundaries. 

The  viticultural  appellation  was  defined  by  geography 
and  historical  use.   To  apply  for  a  viticultural  appellation, 


74 


a  group  of  people  had  to  get  together  and  say,  "We  believe  we 
have  a  viticultural  appellation,  and  we'd  like  to  formalize 
it."  They  had  to  show  that  the  name  they  were  proposing  had 
historical  use,  as  the  Napa  Valley  did,  as  Alexander  Valley 
did.   And  they  had  to  show  that  there  were  geographical, 
geological,  climate  boundaries  to  that  appellation.   This  is 
very  congruent  with  the  European  appellation  system  that 
defines  specific  viticultural  areas  in  terms  of  their 
geography . 

I  don't  know  the  exact  number,  but  there  are  over  a 
hundred  viticultural  appellations  in  the  United  States,  and 
the  number  is  continuing  to  grow.   At  the  same  time,  I  believe 
that  currently  appellations  are  primarily  locators  for  people. 
In  other  words,  in  the  traditional  European  system,  an 
appellation  of,  for  example,  Pauillac  in  the  Medoc  in 
Bordeaux,  is  meant  to  mean,  "This  is  a  particular  piece  of 
ground  that  will  produce  wines  that  are  uniquely  distinctive 
within  this  area." 

But  our  geographical  boundaries  for  viticultural  areas 
encompass  a  tremendous  diversity  within  the  area.   So  within 
Alexander  Valley,  Napa  Valley,  Willamette  Valley  in  Oregon, 
Columbia  Valley  in  Washington,  there  is  enormous  terroir 
diversity.   Our  appellation  system  is  still  primarily  a 
communication  device  for  the  location  and  the  geography  of  the 
area  rather  than  an  appellation  with  a  consistent  terroir, 
producing  a  wine  of  consistent  personality. 

To  go  back  to  the  European  reference,  within  their 
appellations  they  are  only  allowed  to  grow  only  certain 
specific  varieties.   We  haven't  allowed  such  a  restriction, 
and  I  don't  believe  it  makes  sense  to  do  so.   I  mentioned 
earlier  Dr.  Deborah  Elliott-Fisk,  who  is  a  geography  professor 
at  UC  Davis.   One  of  the  very  interesting  things  she  has  told 
me  is  that  in  Sonoma  County  there  are  sixty  different  kinds  of 
bedrock,  and  that  in  the  whole  of  Bordeaux  there  may  be  four 
to  six  kinds  of  bedrock.   One  of  the  reasons  we  have  so  much 
geological  diversity  is  because  of  our  location  at  the 
intersection  of  the  Continental  Plate  and  the  Pacific  Plate. 
Over  eons  of  time  there  has  been  volcanic  activity,  upheaval, 
uplift,  and  fragmenting  of  soils.   In  the  whole  coastal  area 
of  California- -Central  Coast,  Napa,  and  Sonoma- -we  have  such  a 
diversity  of  terroirs  that  I'm  not  sure  we'll  ever  be  able  to 
form  viticultural  appellations  that  have  a  unique  terroir 
unless  they're  very,  very  tiny. 


75 


It  does,  however,  explain  our  ability  to  grow  a  large 
number  of  wine  varieties  successfully.   Again  going  back  to 
the  traditional  model  in  Europe ,  there  are  Chardonnay  and 
Pinot  noir  in  Burgundy,  Cabernet  and  Sauvignan  blanc  in 
Bordeaux.   Europeans  come  to  Sonoma  County  and  wonder  how  we 
can  grow  all  of  these  different  grape  varieties.   But  when  you 
think  about  the  enormous  geological  and  climate  diversity- -at 
the  coast  it's  often  foggy,  and  so  cold  you  can  hardly  ripen  a 
grape,  and  if  you  go  sixty  or  eighty  miles  inland,  it's  very 
warm,  and  you  think  of  all  the  interplay  between  the  coolness 
and  the  warmness  in  that  sixty  miles  and  how  that's  affected 
by  the  site,  the  soil,  and  the  exposure,  you  can  conceptualize 
a  thousand  different  possibilities  for  growing  grapes. 

Hicke :   So  what  is  the  value  in  the  appellation? 

Long:    I  think  that's  a  good  question.   Our  industry  has  tended  to 
some  extent  to  look  to  Europe  as  a  model,  and  even  our  wine 
consumers  do.   They  see  the  appellations  in  Europe  as  the 
model  for  saying,  "This  is  the  best  site  for  Chardonnay  and 
Cabernet."   To  the  extent  that  anyone  has  that  same 
expectation  of  our  appellations,  it  is  an  inappropriate 
expectation.   The  function,  therefore,  is  more  as  a  locator: 
this  is  where  Alexander  Valley  is,  these  are  the  boundaries, 
and  now  you  know  where  the  vineyards  are.   All  it  really  says 
about  the  vineyards  is  that  that  is  where  they  are. 

Hicke:   It  doesn't  really  say  anything  about  the  wine? 

Long:    Except  in  a  more  general  way.   A  general  comment  you  could 
make,  for  example,  about  Russian  River  Valley  versus  Napa 
Valley,  is  that  if  you  know  the  location,  you  know  that 
Russian  River  Valley  is  closer  to  the  coast  and  therefore 
likely  to  have  more  ocean  influence.   You  can  make  general 
comments,  but  you're  not  going  to  be  able  to  say,  "Oh,  yes, 
the  Chardonnay  growing  in  this  appellation  is  always  this 
way. " 

Hicke:   Very  interesting. 


76 


Evolution  of  the  Use  of  Wine  Varieties 


Long:    Why  don't  I  talk  about  varieties?   I  thought  it  would  be  worth 
tracing  the  history  of  the  use  of  wine  varieties  in  the  period 
of  time  that  I've  been  in  the  industry.   When  I  came  into  the 
industry  in  1970,  at  Robert  Mondavi  there  was  tremendous  focus 
on  crushing  the  new  fine  varieties- -Pinot  noir,  Cabernet, 
Chardonnay,  Sauvignon  blanc--and  there  was  relatively  little 
of  them  planted. 

a 

Long:    I  remember  that  oftentimes  we  would  have  a  grower  who  would 
bring  in  Chardonnay,  and  then  we  would  get  their  Mondeuse, 
Mataro,  and  Sylvaner  in  addition.   To  get  the  varieties  we 
wanted,  we  had  to  take  a  varieties  which  at  that  time  we 
considered  not  very  interesting.   As  a  result,  ultimately  old 
vineyards  were  pulled  down,  and  many  of  these  old, 
"uninteresting"  varieties  were  removed.   I  just  recently  had  a 
discussion  with  Lou  Preston  of  Preston  Vineyard  in  Dry  Creek, 
and  he  said  that  when  he  bought  his  property  in  the  Dry  Creek 
Valley,  he  pulled  out  his  old  vineyards.   Now  he  wishes  he 
hadn ' t . 

That's  the  interesting  thing  about  the  way  the  varieties 
have  evolved.   We  started  in  the  early  seventies  with  old 
varieties  and  old  vineyards  and  very  few  Chardonnays , 
Cabernets,  and  Sauvignon  blancs.   In  the  seventies  there  was 
an  enormous  wave  of  planting,  and  many  of  those  old  vines  were 
removed.   People  made  many  different  kinds  of  wine.   Yes, 
there  were  Chardonnay  and  Cabernet,  but  there  were  also 
Sylvaner,  Riesling,  Petite  Sirah,  Zinfandel,  Gewurztraminer-- 
quite  a  variety  of  wines  produced  in  that  decade. 

By  the  eighties  we  saw  a  significant  consolidation  of 
varieties.   In  California  it  was  estimated  that  many,  probably 
the  majority,  of  wineries  were  producing  Chardonnay,  and  there 
were  many  of  them  producing  two  or  three  different 
Chardonnays.   So  with  770  wineries,  people  estimated  as  many 
as  1,000  to  1,200  Chardonnays  being  made.   That  same 
phenomenon  occurred  to  a  lesser  extent  with  Cabernet.   We  had 
a  strong  varietal  focus,  not  only  in  terms  of  making  the 
varietals  but  in  terms  of  growing  them;  the  number  of 
varietals  was  reduced.   If  you  wanted  to  buy  a  California 
Gewurztraminer ,  you  would  have  had  a  much  more  difficult  time 
finding  it. 


77 


By  the  end  of  the  eighties,  there  was  a  reversal  of  that 
trend,  and  there  was  a  renaissance  of  some  of  the  older 
varieties.   The  wine  that  I  knew  in  California  as  Mataro,  in 
France  is  more  correctly  known  as  Mourvedre ,  which  is  a  fine 
red  grape  component  of  the  Rhone  wines.   People  began  planting 
these  new  varieties,  and  the  focus  was  on  the  red  and  white 
varieties  of  the  Rhone.   An  interest  is  beginning  to  develop 
in  planting  some  Italian  varieties- -Nebbiolo,  Sangiovese, 
Refosco--and  I  think  probably  a  potential  for  developing  some 
Spanish  varieties.   You  can  see  that  the  eighties  were  the 
turning  point;  we  saw  consolidation  and  then  a  reinvigoration 
of  interest  in  old  varieties.   I  think  that's  a  very  healthy 
direction,  because  we  have  a  solid,  classic  base  now  in 
Chardonnay,  Cabernet,  Sauvignon  Blanc,  Merlot,  and  to  a  lesser 
extent  Pinot  Noir  and  Zinfandel.   There  is  also  opportunity  to 
develop  new  interest  in  wines --in  blended  wines  out  of  these 
varieties . 

Hicke:   Like  Heritage? 

Long:    Heritage  is  a  classic  blend  of  Cabernet,  Cabernet  Franc,  Petit 
Verdot,  Herlot,  or  Halbec .   Those  varieties  have  been  with  us 
through  much  of  the  eighties,  but  I  would  view  the  varietals 
of  the  Rhone,  Italy,  and  to  a  lesser  extent  Spain  as  the  new 
direction. 

Hicke:   Is  this  just  because  winemakers  or  customers,  or  both,  got 
bored  with  what  they  were  growing? 

Long:    I  think  there  has  been  a  certain  sense  of  being  overwhelmed 

with  a  flood  of  Cabernet  and  Chardonnay,  and  not  everyone  can 
excel  with  these  wines.   Hany  times  a  small  winery  will  seek  a 
particular  niche  where  they  can  excel.   Take  Navarro,  in 
Anderson  Valley,  as  an  example;  they  make  great 
Gewurztraminer.   Navarro  is  not  a  big  winery,  and  there's  not 
a  huge  demand  for  Gewurztraminer ;  but  there  is  a  demand  for  a 
small  amount  of  fine  Gewurztraminer,  and  they've  found  that 
niche  and  have  developed  it. 

Hicke:   Is  it  dry? 

Long:    I  believe  they  make  both  sweet  and  dry  Gewurztraminer.   That's 
been  a  very  successful  strategy  for  them,  and  it  has  offered 
the  consumer  a  wonderful  alternative  wine  to  choose  from.   I 
think  it's  a  very  healthy  development  for  the  business. 


78 


Hicke:   I  guess  Randall  Grahm  was  probably  way  out  in  front- - 

Long:    Randall  was  certainly  the  leader  with  regard  to  the  Rhone  wine 
development. 


Phylloxera 


Long:    Let's  talk  about  what  has  happened  to  date  with  phylloxera. 
In  the  early  eighties,  a  small  portion  of  a  vineyard  in  Napa 
Valley  was  found  to  be  dying.   Upon  investigation,  it  was 
discovered  that  the  vines  were  dying  of  phylloxera.   On 
further  investigation,  it  was  discovered  that  its  rootstock 
was  not  A  x  R  y/1  rootstock.   During  the  planting  in  the  early 
seventies  there  were  some  inadvertent  mixups  of  rootstock. 
After  you  plant  a  vineyard  and  graft  onto  it- -you  can't  easily 
look  at  a  vineyard  and  know  what  rootstock  it  is.   If  a 
nurseryman  gives  you  two  thousand  A  x  R  rootstocks,  you 
really  don't  know  for  sure  that  they  are  A  x  R  until  they  leaf 
out.   In  our  old  system  of  developing  vineyards,  we  would 
plant  a  rootstock,  allow  it  to  grow,  and  then  graft  onto  it  in 
the  vineyard.   So  the  grafter  could  at  least  check  the  nature 
of  the  rootstock. 

In  the  new  systems  of  development,  you  take  a  stick  of 
rootstock  and  a  stick  of  the  grape  variety,  and  you  graft  them 
together  when  they  are  dormant.   When  you  plant  the  graft,  you 
see  only  the  wine  varietal,  so  it  is  a  little  more  difficult 
to  monitor  the  rootstock.   But  it  was  known  in  the  planting 
boom  in  the  seventies  that  there  was  some  mixing  of  rootstock 
in  the  vineyards.   So  when  they  found  this  vineyard  going  down 
to  phylloxera  and  looked  at  the  rootstock  and  found  it  wasn't 
a  known  resistant  rootstock,  that  was  a  satisfactory 
explanation. 

It  was  in  1985- -I  understand  this  from  reading- -that  it 
was  first  identified  that  a  vine  on  A  x  R  #1  rootstock  was 
dying  of  phylloxera.   That  was  hard  to  accept,  because  A  x  R 
rootstock  had  been  used  over  the  years  with  great  success.   It 
had  been  selected  from  a  whole  panoply  of  rootstocks  in  the 
early  part  of  the  century  because  it  produced  good  wine,  was 
easy  to  graft,  grew  well  in  the  vineyard,  and  so  on.   In  the 
second  half  of  the  eighties  there  was  additional  investigation 
to  determine:   "Is  this  true,  that  A  x  R  y/1  is  susceptible  to 
phylloxera?"  The  University  believed  that  to  come  out  and 
say,  "Gee,  A  x  R  #1  rootstock  is  going  down  to  phylloxera" 


79 


would  create  a  big  problem  if  not  first  thoroughly 
investigated.   The  University  viticulturalists  had  been  the 
original  people  recommending  A  x  R,  and  they  were  the  people 
investigating  this  phylloxera  problem. 

In  the  second  half  of  the  eighties,  a  different  biotype 
of  phylloxera  was  identified.   If  two  phylloxera  bugs  were  put 
on  the  same  A  x  R  #1  root,  it  would  resist  one  of  them  and  not 
the  other  one.   The  new  biotype  was  responsible  for  the  death 
of  the  A  x  R-based  vines. 

Hicke:   You  mean  it  was  different  from  what  had  hit  a  hundred  years 
ago  or  from  what  had  hit  in  the  seventies? 

Long:    Phylloxera  is  always  present  in  the  vineyard  to  some  extent. 
It's  just  that  some  rootstock  have  the  ability  to  co-exist 
with  the  phylloxera. 

Hicke:   And  now  there  was  this  new  type  appearing? 

Long:    Now  we  have  a  new  biotype.   The  result  is  that  the  biotype  is 
devastating  the  rootstock;  it  is  killing  the  A  x  R  #1 
rootstock.   The  primary  area  that  was  infected  was  Napa 
Valley.   It's  not  clear  how  that  happened,  because  in  the 
second  half  of  the  eighties  the  vineyard  owners  in  the  Napa 
Valley  experienced  outbreaks- -it  was  almost  like  measles. 
Within  two  or  three  years,  all  of  a  sudden  there  were  infected 
spots  through  many  of  the  vineyards  in  the  valley.   Many 
explanations  have  been  suggested:   the  flood  of  '86;  maybe  it 
was  spread  that  way,  but  that  didn't  make  sense  because 
hillsides  had  problems.   Maybe  there  was  so  much  vineyard 
development  that  an  original  infection  was  carried  by 
equipment.   Maybe  it  was  in  a  nursery  unbeknownst,  and  when 
plant  material  was  taken  from  the  nursery  and  planted  in 
vineyards  it  spread.    I  don't  think  anyone  will  ever  know 
exactly  what  happened.   It  just  seemed  to  spring  up. 

Infected  vineyards  have  experienced  about  a  threefold 
increase  every  year.   If  you  have  one  vine  that  dies  from 
phylloxera  one  year,  next  year  you  will  have  three,  then  nine, 
then  twenty-seven.   As  we  look  forward,  we  think  that  by  1994 
or  1995  there  is  going  to  be  dramatic  removal  of  vineyards  as 
a  result  of  this  geometric  progression. 

Hicke:   Is  it  coming  into  your  vineyards? 


80 


Long:    We  have  it  at  Sirai  in  a  small  area.   As  soon  as  we  heard  from 
our  viticultural  friends  what  was  going  on  in  Napa,  we 
instituted  a  program  to  search  for  phylloxera  and  discovered 
it  in  a  few  vines  two  years  ago,  and  we  monitor  its  progress. 
It  seems,  from  other  people's  experience,  that  the  rate  of 
increase  in  any  one  site  depends  on  the  soil  conditions.   It 
seems  to  spread  faster  in  a  heavier  clay  or  moist  soil  than  in 
the  very  dry,  rocky,  or  sandy  soil.   It's  hard  to  project, 
really,  the  rate  of  the  vineyards  going  down  on  any  one  site 
until  you  have  a  several  years  of  data. 

Sonoma  County  is  about  five  years  —  I'm  guessing—behind 
Napa  in  terms  of  infection  rate.   Most  people  who  have  thought 
about  this  subject  believe  that  in  ten  years,  85  percent  of 
the  vineyards  in  Napa  and  Sonoma  will  be  replanted. 

Hicke :   I've  heard  people  express  the  thought  that  a  lot  of  these 
vines  are  old  and  the  vineyards  would  have  to  be  replanted 
anyway . 

Long:    I  think  there  are  some  positive  aspects.   In  the  last  twelve 
years,  because  of  all  the  work  I've  told  you  about,  we've 
learned  an  enormous  amount  about  our  vineyards .   This  gives  us 
an  opportunity  to  replant  the  vineyards  in  the  sense  of  what  I 
was  saying:   here's  a  site,  what  are  the  proper  roots tocks, 
varietals,  clones,  row  spacing,  trellising,  row  orientation? 
As  we  pull  out  all  the  vineyards  in  Napa  and  Sonoma  and 
replant  them  in  a  more  sophisticated,  thoughtful,  terroir- 
responsive  way,  we  can  enormously  improve  our  quality.   And  we 
will,  but  of  course  it's  a  great  expense,  and  it's  over  a  long 
term.   But  that  is  the  direction  that  things  will  move. 

Hicke:   Is  there  another  rootstock  that's  resistent? 

Long:    We  can't  go  through  this  discussion  without  saying  that 

there's  an  enormous  amount  of  controversy  over  this.   Some  of 
the  nature  of  the  controversy  is  that  the  University  wasn't 
pro-active  enough  in  talking  about  this  problem  earlier;  that 
they  took  too  long  to  withdraw  their  recommendation  of  A  x  R. 
Some  of  the  controversy  is  over  whether  there  really  is  a 
biotype.   The  Europeans  are  particularly  critical  of  American 
viticulture,  because  their  experience  was  that  many  years  ago 
when  they  planted  A  x  R  rootstock,  it  declined  to  phylloxera 
very  quickly. 

Hicke:   Oh,  really?   I  didn't  know  that. 


81 


Long:    They  never  had  the  experience  that  we  did  of  thirty  to  forty 
years  of  effective  operations  of  A  x  R.   Their  stance  is,  "We 
figured  this  out  a  long  time  ago.   Why  didn't  you?" 
[laughter]   They  really  have  the  lifted  eyebrow  toward  the 
biotype  explanation.   But  frankly,  when  you  stop  and  think 
about  phylloxera,  I  suspect  that  if  there  were  adequate 
research  done- -and  there  hasn't  been  any- -that  you  would  find 
there  are  dozens  of  biotypes.   There's  no  reason  to  think  that 
phylloxera  is  exactly  the  same  around  the  world;  there's  no 
other  biological  system  that  is  that  way. 


The  Leading  Role  of  California  in  the  Worldwide  Wine  Industry 


Long:    Another  subject  I  wanted  to  talk  about,  which  I  believe  in 

very  strongly,  is  the  leading  role  that  California  has  taken 
in  the  change  of  winemaking  around  the  world.   At  the  time 
that  I  was  first  in  the  business  in  the  seventies,  I  was 
fortunate  to  do  some  traveling.   At  that  time,  particularly  in 
Europe,  there  was  a  sense  of  great  tradition,  a  sense  that 
things  were  done  as  they  always  had  been  done ,  and  that  the 
best  way  to  make  wine  and  grow  grapes  was  known  and  therefore 
not  under  investigation.   [laughs]   But  California  became  so 
enormously  successful,  particularly  in  varietal  development- -I 
look  at  Chardonnay  in  a  sense  as  a  new  variety.   It's  true 
that  the  Chardonnay  grape  is  grown  and  made  into  wine  as  White 
Burgundy  in  Burgundy,  but  our  particular  style, 
characteristics,  and  universal  appeal  of  our  California 
Chardonnay,  and  the  fact  that  it  has  been  marketed  as  a 
varietal,  have  been  enormously  powerful.   That's  a  California 
achievement. 

In  the  seventies  California  was  considered,  by  the  rest 
of  the  world,  a  charming  curiosity  in  terms  of  the  wines  that 
were  produced,  and  our  activities  and  wines  were  considered  to 
be  rustic.   But  California  drive,  energy,  enthusiasm,  and 
investigation  traveled  around  the  world,  with  Calif ornians 
constantly  setting  new  sights;  revolving  our  palate;  setting 
higher  standards  of  quality,  greater  sophistication  in 
winemaking  and  grape  growing.   We  have  created  wines  in  the 
eighties  that  were  considered  to  be  significantly  more 
sophisticated  than  those  in  the  seventies  and  are  significant 
competitors  on  the  world  scene. 


82 


In  the  eighties,  we  saw,  around  the  world,  vineyards 
being  planted  to  Chardonnay.   In  fact,  it  happened  earlier 
than  that.   I  was  in  Eugene,  Oregon,  in  1976  at  the  first 
Cool-Climate  Symposium,  which  pulled  together  people  making 
wines  in  cool  climates  around  the  world.   I  was  very 
interested  to  hear  the  Canadians  say  they  were  planting 
Chardonnay,  and  also  the  Swiss,  the  Italians,  the  Australians, 
and  the  New  Zealanders .   By  the  end  of  the  seventies  the  rest 
of  the  world  was  paying  attention  to  what  we  were  doing,  and 
they  were  beginning  to  emulate  our  varietal  development. 

When  Californians  first  went  to  Burgundy  to  buy 
barrels,  the  Burgundian  wineries  didn't  really  know  where  the 
wood  for  the  barrels  came  from;  they  weren't  really  aware  of 
the  techniques  for  making  the  barrels.   Because  of  our 
questions  and  our  interest,  and  also  our  discovery  that  these 
things  made  a  difference- -type  of  wood,  type  of  coopering, 
etc. --French  winemakers  are  not  only  highly  aware  of  these 
differences  now,  but  they've  studied  them  in  their 
universities  and  are  applying  them  to  their  winemaking.   This 
illustrates  Californians  leading  the  way  in  important 
winemaking  details  previously  unnoticed. 

As  a  result,  we  have  a  world  scene  that  is  much  more 
competitive.   There  are  many,  many  more  good  wines  being  made 
from  every  country,  and  I  think  the  average  quality  level  of 
the  wines  around  the  world  has  gone  up  significantly. 
Concurrent  with  that- -I  don't  know  if  it's  a  cause  or  an 
effect- -is  that  the  consumer  around  the  world  is  demanding 
better  wines.   So  level  of  consumption  of  the  old  "jug"  wines 
is  continuing  to  decline,  and  the  demand  for  these  finer  wines 
is  continuing  to  increase. 

If  you  stand  back  and  look  at  that  whole  picture  of 
about  twenty-two  years,  there  is  an  enormous  change  in  the 
world  scene  in  wine --what's  grown,  what's  made,  the  quality, 
how  it's  done,  the  whole  attitude  toward  it.   When  I  first 
traveled,  you  would  go  into  a  chateau  in  Bordeaux,  and  they 
wouldn't  think  about  doing  anything  different  from  their 
traditional  practices.  Now,  first  of  all,  the  next  generation 
is  running  the  chateau;  and,  secondly,  this  young  generation 
did  its  internship  in  winemaking  either  in  California  or  in 
Australia.   They  probably  have  a  little  side  project- -a  little 
winery  in  California  or  Australia  in  addition  to  their 
chateau.   So  it's  fascinating.   There's  much  more  travel  of 
the  winemakers.   Our  winemaker,  Nick  Goldschmidt,  is  a  good 
example.   He  is  from  New  Zealand,  learned  viticulture  there, 


83 


studied  enology  in  Australia,  came  to  the  United  States  and 
worked  in  California,  went  to  England  and  worked  in  the  wine 
trade  in  England,  went  to  South  America  and  made  wine  in  South 
America.   That's  not  an  atypical  winemaker. 

Hicke :   Do  you  see  any  particular  people  or  wineries  in  California 
that  took  the  leadership  in  this  evolution? 

Long:    Certainly,  going  back  to  Robert  Mondavi- -he  was  the  first  man 
there  beating  the  drums  about  the  quality  of  California  wine 
relative  to  world  wine ,  and  he  was  never  afraid  to  compare  his 
wine  to  other  people's.   I  remember  some  of  the  tastings. 
He'd  bring  out  [Domaine  de  la]  Romance -Conti  and  put  his  Pinot 
Noir  up  against  it,  and  everybody  would  giggle.   Nonetheless, 
what  a  fabulously  successful  individual,  focusing  the 
attention  on  California  and  what  was  happening  in  California. 
Supporting  him  were  all  the  wineries  that  enthusiastically  and 
energetically  sought  new  and  better  ways  of  making  wine  and 
shared  their  information.   That  sharing  of  information  from  a 
technical  point  of  view  gave  us  enormous  power  to  move  the 
whole  industry  forward,  quickly. 

Hicke:   That  was  the  California  development? 

Long:    Yes.   And  that  North  Coast  Viticultural  Research  Group  that  I 
mentioned  earlier- -Simi,  Beringer,  Mondavi,  Domaine  Chandon, 
Phelps,  and  Jordon--is  just  one  example  of  that.   Actually, 
you  see  that  somewhat  now  in  Bordeaux;  some  of  the  first 
growths  are  banding  together  and  sharing  information.   But 
that  was  a  concept  totally  foreign  in  many  other  countries , 
and  we  were  fortunate  to  be  so  willing  to  work  together  that 
way. 

Hicke:  Do  you  think  California  is  going  to  maintain  its  leadership, 
or  is  it  now,  as  you've  indicated,  such  a  worldwide  industry 
that  they're  sharing  all  over? 

Long:    I  think  California,  as  good  as  our  wines  are  now,  has 

tremendous  potential  to  grow:  quality  and  style.   What  we  have 
done  well  is  to  have  at  the  forefront  of  each  variety  certain 
wines  that  say:   "This  is  the  wine  of  the  future.   This  is  the 
Chardonnay  of  the  future,  the  Cabernet  of  the  future;  these 
are  the  new  varietals  of  the  future."  At  Simi,  our  way  of 
thinking  about  what  we're  doing  is  to  be  on  that  cutting  edge 
in  terms  of  style  and  quality  with  Cabernet,  Chardonnay,  and 
Sauvignon  Blanc.   In  many  cases  those  are  blended  varietals, 


84 


Sauvignon  Blanc  blended  with  Semillon  and  Cabernet  blended 
with  Cabernet  Franc,  Merlot,  and  Petit  Verdot.   We  have  an 
ability  to  continue  to  develop.   As  good  as  our  wines  are, 
they  can  be  better;  they  can  be  more  sophisticated;  they  can 
have  more  evolution;  and,  partly  because  of  our  climate- -our 
terroir- -we  can  successfully  develop  many  other  varieties. 

In  fact,  I  think  we've  been  somewhat  subject  to  and  have 
tended  to  accept  other  people's  opinions  about  our  climate 
that  were  based  on  their  own  experiences. 

Hicke :   When  you  say,  "we,"  do  you  mean  at  Simi? 

Long:    We  in  California  have  been  used  to  Europeans  visiting  and 
saying  our  climate  is  too  hot,  too  dry.   "You  shouldn't 
irrigate  your  vineyards,  because  we  don't.   Your  climate  is 
too  hot  because  it  is  different  from  ours."  There  are  a 
hundred  examples:   "You're  not  right  because  you're  not  like 
us."  The  more  I've  traveled  around  the  world  and  looked  at 
climates,  the  more  I've  come  to  believe  that  we  do  have  a  very 
special  place.   We  have  a  climate  that's  warm  enough  to  ripen 
the  grapes  but  cool  at  nights  for  flavor  and  color 
development;  we  have  a  long  growing  season,  so  we  don't  have 
the  problems  with  frost  that  they  experience  in  Washington 
State,  for  example,  where  last  year  they  lost  a  significant 
portion  of  their  crop,  or  in  Europe,  which  last  year  lost  a 
significant  portion  of  their  crop.   We  don't  have  rain  as 
frequently  during  the  summer,  so  we  don't  have  to  apply  the 
level  of  chemicals- -fungicides- -to  protect  the  grapes.   We 
don't  have  that  rain  pressure  for  mold  development  as 
frequently  as  other  countries.   We  don't  have  hail;  you  know, 
we  never  think  about  hail.   Argentina  and  Burgundy  lose 
significant  amounts  of  crop  from  time  to  time  to  hail. 

So  from  a  strictly  agricultural  point  of  view,  to  have  a 
crop  and  not  lose  it  to  some  nasty  weather  event  every  year, 
to  have  the  kind  of  weather  that  really  enhances  quality,  this 
is  one  of  the  best  places  in  the  world  to  grow  wines.   I  think 
we've  tended  to  accept  other  people's  criticism  without 
standing  back  and  saying,  "Hey,  wait  a  minute."  Ultimately, 
the  wines  tell  the  tale.   In  our  climate  that  is  "too  warm," 
where  we  "irrigated  when  we  shouldn't,"  et  cetera,  we've  been 
able  to  produce  wines  that,  tasted  blind,  are  as  good  or 
better  than  most  any  around  the  world. 

Hicke:   That  is  the  final  test. 


85 


Long:    That  is,  in  fact,  the  final  test.   [laughter] 
Hicke:   Are  there  some  other  things  that  we  haven't  covered? 

Long:    The  only  other  thing  we  haven't  covered  is  the  role  of  the 
winemaker  and  how  that  has  evolved.   Certainly  in  the 
seventies  the  winemaker  was  seen  and  conceived  as  the  person 
who  had  the  full  grasp  of  the  winemaking  process.   In  the 
eighties,  the  winemaker  was  the  person  who  had  a  grasp  of  the 
winemaking  process  but  needed  to  be  out  in  the  vineyard.   In 
the  nineties,  the  winemaker  is  the  leader  of  a  small  group,  a 
team,  that  has  a  full  grasp  of  winemaking  and  winegrowing. 

The  level  of  sophistication  that  we  need  to  have  in  our 
winegrowing  and  winemaking  to  achieve  these  cutting- edge 
wines,  to  make  the  greatest  wine  from  each  vineyard  site, 
requires  a  group  of  people  who  have  a  common  goal  and 
understanding  of  the  wine  and  the  vines.   In  that  group  is 
someone  who  is  extraordinarily  knowledgeable  about 
viticulture,  extraordinarily  able  to  manage  the  vineyards, 
extraordinarily  knowledgeable  about  the  winemaking  process , 
the  cellar  work,  the  quality  control,  and  the  wine 
composition.   If  you  take  that  group  of  people,  and  they  share 
a  common  goal ,  then  you  have  much  more  power  to  achieve  this 
goal  than  you  would  in  just  one  person. 

What  I'm  saying  is  that  the  degree  of  sophistication  and 

understanding  to  grow  and  make  a  number  of  wines  at  a  very 

high  quality  level  is  such  that  it's  often  beyond  the  scope  of 
one  person  to  do . 


85a. 


S  I  M  I 


S^^v      ^ 


750ml. 


ALEXANDER     VALLEY 


1988 


ALC.  13.3% 
BY  VOL. 


S  I  M  I 


MENDOCINO  COUNTY  29,  „ 

S  O  N  O  M  A  COUNT  Y  58% 

NAPA      COUNTY      13% 


750ml. 


1990 


ALC   134% 
BY  VOL 


86 


VI    PROFESSIONAL  AND  COMMUNITY  ACTIVITIES 


Hicke:   I  have  a  few  questions  left.   I'd  like  to  hear  a  little  about 
your  professional  and  community  activities.   You've  told  me  a 
few  things.   For  instance,  you  received  the  Masi  International 
Award  for  1991. 

Long:    Masi  is  an  Italian  winery  that  has  selected,  every  other  year, 
someone  from  around  the  world  who-- 

ff 

Long:    --has  made  significant  contributions  in  the  wine  industry.   I 
was  honored  to  receive  that  award  in  1991.   In  1989  I  received 
what  is  called  the  WAFI  award  [Wine  and  Food  Achievement 
Award] .   The  northern  California  chapter  of  the  American 
Institute  of  Wine  and  Food  (AIWF)  conceived  a  program  to 
recognize  and  honor  people  who  contributed  in  the  area  of  wine 
and  food.   Some  of  the  people,  for  example,  have  developed  new 
sausages  or  new  cheeses .   Every  year  they  have  one  award  for  a 
winemaker,  and  I  received  their  first  winemaker  award. 

Hicke:   These  are  for  your  work  in  the  industry?  Can  you  tell  me  what 
they  recognized  you  for  specifically? 

Long:    When  they  gave  the  award,  they  didn't  say,  "This  is  for  this 
particular  activity."   It  was  for  the  duration  of  my  career: 
"You  have  created  leadership  in  winemaking  and  viticulture 
which  has  resulted  in  outstanding  wines,  and  we're  honoring 
you  for  that  achievement." 

Hicke:   I  wanted  to  ask  you  about  Women  for  Wine  Sense,  too,  and  women 
in  the  wine  industry.   What  are  the  important  things  to 
document  about  that?   I  think  you  were  a  founding  member. 


87 


Long:    I've  been  on  the  board  of  directors  of  Women  for  Wine  Sense. 
The  organization  was  founded  by  Michaela  Rodeno  of  St.  Supery 
and  Julie  Williams  of  Frog's  Leap.   I've  been  peripherally 
active  in  that  group.   I've  written  a  group  of  what  we  call 
beliefs  and  concerns  that  communicate  how  we  feel  about  wine 
being  incorporated  into  our  lives  as  women.   I  led  a  group  of 
women  to  put  that  together  so  that  when  we  speak  publicly,  we 
have  a  consistent  way  to  communicate  how  we  feel  about  issues. 
I  have  spoken  on  behalf  of  the  group  in  several  venues,  but 
the  concept  and  leadership  of  that  group  is  credited  to  those 
two  women.   And  there  has  been  a  large  number  of  women  very 
active  and  invested  in  that  organization. 

The  idea  of  the  organization  came  from  the  fact  that 
wine  in  the  public  media  was  receiving  such  consistent 
criticism  that  you  began  to  feel  guilty  if  you  ever  drank  any 
alcoholic  beverages.   But  we  see  wine,  first,  as  the  result  of 
artistic,  creative  efforts --an  aesthetic  experience  for  people 
who  consume  it,  something  to  really  enhance  life,  something 
that  has  great  historical  and  religious  traditions,  and 
something  that  has  a  healthy  role  in  life.   Its  health  impact 
is  well  documented  by  scientific  studies;  wine  consumption 
scientifically  is  a  positive  health  factor  for  men  and  a 
neutral  health  factor  for  women.   It  will  enhance  a  man's 
longevity  if  it  is  consumed  in  moderation. 

None  of  that  sense- -the  feeling  of  quality,  of  history, 
of  its  healthy  role,  of  the  addition  to  life's  quality- -was 
being  effectively  communicated.   Often  women  were  taking  the 
brunt  of  being  "problems"  because  they  were  consuming  wine 
during  pregnancy  and  so  on.   The  group  was  formed  to  take  a 
more  positive  personal  view  of  wine  and  its  place  in  our 
society. 

Hicke:   It  sounds  like  it  has  less  to  do  with  women  than  it  has  to  do 
with  some  of  the  other  aspects  of  the  industry.   In  other 
words,  you're  not  focusing  on  equal  opportunity  for  women. 

Long:    That's  right.   That  group  has  nothing  to  do  with  that.   The 
group  was  formed  to  some  extent  out  of  frustration  that  the 
rest  of  the  industry  didn't  seem  to  be  able  to  effectively 
speak  up  positively  on  behalf  of  wine.   Most  of  the  people  in 
the  group  are  owners  or  active  in  wineries,  and  they  feel  very 
strongly  about  wine.   They're  very  proud  of  what  they've  done, 
and  I  feel  the  same  way. 


88 


It's  hard  for  a  culture  that's  never  had  wine  to  really 
communicate  what  wine  is.   It's  too  easy  to  see  it  only  as  an 
alcoholic  beverage.   It's  really  difficult  to  understand  how 
complex  a  beverage  it  is,  which  is  the  essence  of  what  we've 
been  talking  about- -its  reflection  and  responsiveness  to 
environment,  the  complexities  of  winemaking  well  done,  the 
levels  of  quality  that  are  possible,  the  personalities  that 
can  be  expressed  through  wine,  the  enormous  variety  that  can 
be  produced  around  the  world,  and  the  cultural  history  that 
it's  had. 

Hicke :   You  were  founder  and  president  of  American  Vineyard 
Foundation. 

Long:    The  American  Vineyard  Foundation  was  formed  to  help  finance 

research  in  enology  and  viticulture.   Like  any  other  business, 
we  need  to  constantly  reinvest  back  into  the  development  of 
our  business- -or ,  to  put  it  another  way,  the  improved 
understanding  of  growing  and  making  wine.   The  people  who 
primarily  do  that  kind  of  research  in  California  would  be  the 
professors  of  enology  and  viticulture  at  UC  Davis  and  at  the 
California  State  University  at  Fresno.   The  industry  has 
always  supported  them  to  a  greater  or  lesser  extent,  and  that 
foundation  was  founded  to  ensure  a  continuing  supply  of 
research  funds  and  a  mechanism  to  raise,  receive,  and  disburse 
those  funds . 

Hicke:   So  it's  a  fundraising  organization? 


Long:    Yes,  and  it  was  started  at  that  time  because  of  the  need  at 

that  time.   Then  a  marketing  order  was  passed  in  the  state  of 
California  that  provided  the  research  funds.   As  that 
marketing  order  ceased,  the  American  Vineyard  Foundation  again 
came  to  the  forefront  to  receive  and  disburse  research  funds. 

Hicke:   You  were  president  of  Napa  Valley  Wine  Technical  Group  in  '76. 

Long:    Both  Napa  and  Sonoma  counties  have  technical  associations  that 
meet  once  a  month  and  generally  have  a  speaker  talk  about  a 
technical  subject  and  also  provide  a  social  forum  for  the 
members.   I  was  a  member  of  that  group  starting  in  the  early 
seventies  and  subsequently  became  president.   When  I  first 
came  to  Simi  I  was  a  member  of  the  Steering  Committee  for  the 
Sonoma  County  Wine  Technical  Group. 


89 


Hicke:   You  were  on  the  board  of  the  American  Society  for  Enology  and 
Viticulture. 

Long:    Right.   It  was  the  American  Society  for  Enology  and 

Viticulture  that  originally  saw  a  need  to  form  the  American 
Vineyard  Foundation.   It  was  as  a  board  member  that  I  took 
responsibility  to  start  up  the  American  Vineyard  Foundation. 

I  was  also  on  the  Industry  Advisory  Committee  for  FPMS 
[Foundation  Plant  Material  Service] ,  which  is  the  foundation 
nursery  for  the  American  wine  industry.   As  a  board,  we  had  a 
number  of  major  projects.   One  was  assuring  that  the  vine 
material  that  was  in  the  older  vineyards  at  Davis  was  saved. 
One  was  creating  a  new  position  in  the  Department  of  Enology 
and  Viticulture  for  grapevine  development.   Another,  which  the 
committee  is  still  working  on,  is  to  develop  a  more  effective 
system  to  import  and  evaluate  grapevine  material  from  around 
the  world  and  then  get  it  out  to  the  industry  in  the  forms  of 
varieties  or  clones  that  we  can  use  and  experiment  with. 

Then  I  was  on  the  National  Grape  Crop  Advisory  Council, 
which  is  a  Department  of  Agriculture  committee  that  looks  at 
the  grape  crop  with  a  national  perspective,  to  see  what  needs 
to  be  done  to  protect  and  develop  that  crop. 

Hicke:   And  you  were  on  the  School  of  Agriculture  Policy  Advisory 
Committee  at  Davis. 

Long:    That  was  a  brief  stint  for  the  more  general  agricultural 
issues.   Now  I'm  on  the  Industry  Advisory  Council  for  the 
Department  of  Enology  and  Viticulture,  which  focuses  on  the 
development  of  that  department  and  its  interaction  with  the 
industry,  and  it  also  helps  the  department  with  any  larger 
issues  that  it  may  have.   It  provides  advice  and  direction, 
communication  and  support,  and  probably  at  some  juncture, 
fundraising  for  a  new  building. 

Hicke:   United  Winegrowers  of  Sonoma  County? 

Long:    United  Winegrowers  would  be  in  shorthand  the  county  political 
action  committee  for  the  wine  and  grape  industry.   Its  members 
are  both  grape  growers  and  wineries,  and  the  focus  is  to 
protect  agriculture  in  Sonoma  County.   I  am  a  director  of  that 
organization. 

Hicke:   Do  you  have  a  representative  in  Sacramento? 


90 


Hicke:   Do  you  have  a  representative  in  Sacramento? 

Long:    No.   Our  focus  has  been  primarily  within  Sonoma  County.   We 
have  a  part-time  executive  director  who  has  worked  for  the 
House  Committee  of  Agriculture  in  Washington,  D.C.  and  was 
raised  in  an  agricultural  community.   He  has  both  a  good 
agriculture  and  political  background.   More  than  anything,  he 
has  developed  and  maintained  good  relationships  between  our 
wine  grape  community  and  the  county.   If  the  county  is 
thinking  about  doing  something  that  might  impact  our 
community,  they  will  seek  us  out  for  guidance  and  input. 
We've  been  an  effective  organization,  and  we  have  good  working 
relationships  with  our  county  officials.   The  county  has  real 
concerns  about  protecting  agriculture,  so  it's  very  positive. 

Hicke:   I  think  you've  talked  about  the  strengths  and  the  challenges 
that  we  are  facing  today.   What  about  taxes  and  the  anti- 
alcohol  movement? 

Long:    I  think  the  challenges  for  California  are  to  continue  in  the 

direction  that  we  have  set.   We've  taken  a  leadership  position 
in  terms  of  wine  around  the  world,  and  our  challenge  is  to 
maintain  that  in  a  world  where  there  is  communication  and 
competition.   I  think  we  can  do  that;  there's  no  question  in 
my  mind.   In  the  short  term,  in  the  first  half  of  the 
nineties,  we  have  challenges  that  are  economic,  primarily  as  a 
result  of  the  recession.   I  think  certainly  health  and  alcohol 
concerns  are  there  in  the  background,  and  they  have  impacted 
people's  drinking  habits  to  some  extent.   Some  of  those 
concerns  are  appropriate  in  our  society,  such  as  the  concerns 
of  drunk  driving.   General  health  concerns  are  appropriate, 
but  a  real,  honest  view  of  health  would  incorporate  moderate 
wine  consumption.  I  think  maybe  the  biggest  problem  is  that 
alcohol  has  been  painted  as  completely  negative,  which  of 
course  it's  not,  any  more  than  any  food  substance  is  neither 
wholly  positive  nor  negative. 

I  feel  that  those  issues  will  resolve  themselves,  that  a 
balanced  picture  will  be  communicated  and  is  beginning  to  be 
seen.   I  don't  think  the  picture  has  been  balanced  in  the  last 
five  years;  it's  mostly  been  anti-alcohol,  and  that's  not  a 
balanced  picture.   But  a  recent  60  Minutes  TV  program 
discussed  "the  French  paradox"- -that  French  people  have  a 
high -fat  diet,  drink  wine,  and  have  a  very  low  incidence  of 
cardiovascular  disease.   French  doctors  feel  the  linkage 
between  wine  consumption  and  low  cardiovascular  disease  is  an 
important  causal  relationship. 


91 


And  there  are  demographic  studies  that  show  a  real 
linkage  between  alcoholism  and  societal  restrictiveness 
towards  alcohol  consumption.   Demographically ,  the  more 
restrictive  a  society  is  toward  alcohol,  the  more  alcoholism 
they  have  and  a  higher  rate  of  death  from  alcohol -related 
problems.   That  kind  of  information  is  beginning  to  come  out, 
so  I'm  confident  that  we  will  restore  our  balance  of 
perspective. 

Phylloxera  is  an  economic  problem  for  the  industry,  and 
the  state  of  our  financial  institutions  in  the  United  States 
is  a  problem  for  the  industry,  because  they're  in  such  a  weak 
position.   The  banks  are  pulling  out  their  financial  support 
from  small  businesses,  like  wineries,  and  putting  it  into 
government  paper  and  secure  investments,  and  that  really 
doesn't  help  our  businesses  grow  and  develop.   But,  again,  I 
feel  confident  in  time  that  will  change. 

I  think  the  big  challenges  are  the  next  few  years,  and  I 
think  the  biggest  challenge,  in  a  sense,  is  not  to  be  so 
distracted  by  the  economic  problems  that  we  don't  continue  our 
march  in  quality  wine  development,  which  is  what  has 
established  us  in  a  leadership  position  in  the  world. 

Hicke:   This  has  been  a  wonderful  interview.   You  are  so  thoughtful 

and  reflective  about  everything  that  you  are  doing  and  that  is 
going  on.  It's  really  a  great  contribution  to  the  documenting 
of  wine  history.  Thank  you  very  much. 


Transcriber:  Judy  Smith 


Zelma  Long,  President,  Simi  Winery,  1991. 

Photograph  by  David  Buchholz 


92 


TAPE  GUIDE  --  Zelma  Long 


Interview  1:   September  23,  1991 


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Interview  2:   January  2,  1992 
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93 


APPEND I CES--Zelma  Long 

A.  Resume  and  list  of  publication  94 

B.  "History  of  Simi  Winery,"  1984  99 


94 

Appendix  A 

ZELHA  R.  LONG 
President/Chief  Executive  Officer 

simi  Winery 

16275  Healdsburg  Avenue/  P.  O.  Box  698 

Healdsburg,  California  95448 

707/433-6981 

Educational  Background; 

1988  Stanford  Executive  Program,  Graduate  School  of  Business 

Stanford  University,  Stanford,  California 

1982-1983      Part-time  graduate  student  at  Golden  Gate  University,  San 

Francisco,  California,  working  toward  an  M.B.A.  degree 

1968-1970      Graduate  program  in  Enology  and  Viticulture  at  the  University 

of  California,  Davis 

1965          Graduated  from  Oregon  State  University  with  a  Bachelor  of 

Science  Degree,  majoring  in  science  and  minor ing  in  nutrition 

Employment  Background; 

1990-Present   President  and  Chief  Executive  Officer,  Simi  Winery 

1989  President,    Simi  Winery 

1979-1988      Senior  Vice  President/Winemaker,  Member  Board  of  Directors, 

Simi  Winery 

1970-1979      Chief   Enologist,   Robert  Mondavi   Winery,   Napa   Valley, 

California 

1967-1968      Professional  dietitian  and  teaching  dietitian,   Highland 
Alameda  Hospital,  Oakland,  California 

1965          Dietetic  Internship,  University  of  California  Medical  Center, 

San  Francisco,  California 

Business  and  Professional  Affiliations; 

1977-Present   Co-owner  and  co-winemaker  of  Long  Vineyards,  Napa  Valley, 
California 

1981-Present   Member,  North  Coast  Viticultural  Research  Group 

1989-Present   Member,   Department  of  Viticulture  and  Enology  Industry 
Advisory  Committee,  University  of  California,  Davis 

1990-Present   Member,  Womens1  Forum,  Bay  Area,  California 
1990-Present   Director,  Women  for  Wine  Sense 


95 


ZELMA  R.  LONG 
Page  2 

1990-Present   Director,  United  Winegrowers,  Sonoma  County 
1991 


Member   -   Board   of   Trustees, 
Foundation,  U.C.  Davis 


California   Agricultural 


1987 
1987 
1987 
1985 

1983- 
1982- 
1981- 


•1989 
•1989 
•1989 
-1990 

1984 
1983 
1982 


Member,  School  of  Agriculture  Policy  Advisory  Committee, 
University  of  California,  Davis 

Member,  Foundation  Plant  Material  Science  Industry  Advisory 
Committee,  University  of  California,  Davis 

Member,  Vitis  Cocp  Advisory  Committee,  Advisory  Group  to  the 
National  Plant  Germplasm  System  U.S.D.A. 

Member,  California  Regional  Water  Quality  Control  Board,  North 
Coast  Region 

Board  Member,  American  Vineyard  Foundation 

Director,  American  Society  of  Enology  and  Viticulture 

Founder  and  President  of  the  American  Vineyard  Foundation 


Past  Director,  Sonoma  County  Wine  Technical  Group 

Past  President,  Napa  Valley  Wine  Technical  Group 

Past  Member,  Technical  Advisory  Committee,  California  Winegrowers 


Publications; 


Co-authored  and  presented  a  paper  at  the  1986  Sixth  Australian  Wine 
Industry  Technical  Conference,  "Juice  Oxidation  in  California 
Chardonnay,"  Z.  Long,  B.  Lindblom 

Authored  and  presented  a  paper  at  the  1986  Sixth  Australian  Wine 
Industry  Technical  Conference,  "Manipulation  of  Grape  Flavor  in  the 
Vineyard,  California  North  Coast  Region,"  Z.  Long 


Co-authored  an  article  for  Wines  and  Vines.  November  1986: 
Oxidation  Experiments  at  Simi  Winery,"  Z.  Long,  B.  Lindblom 


"Juic« 


Authored  two  chapters  on  "The  Science  of  Growing  Grapes,"  anc 
"Enological  and  Technical  Development,"  University  of  California^ 
Sotheby  Book  of  California  Wine.  1984 

~'  '  ' 

Authored  an  article  for  Practical  Winery.  July/August,  1984: 
"Monitoring  Sugar  per  Berry" 


96 


ZELMA  R.  LONG 
Page  3 

Authored  and  presented  a  paper  for  the  Bulletin  of  the  Society  of 
Medical  Friends  of  Wine,  February,  1983,  Vol.  25,  "The  New  Geography  of 
Wine" 

Co-authored  and  presented  a  paper  at  the  1981  American  Society  for 
Enology  and  Viticulture  Convention,  "A  Study  of  Compositional 
Differences  in  Cabernet  Sauvignon  as  a  Function  of  Press  Types  and 
Cycles,"  Z.  Long,  B.  Lindblom,  R.  Boulton 

Authored  a  chapter  entitled,  "White  Table  Wine  Production  in 
California's  North  Coast  Region,"  Wine  Production  Technology  In  The 
United  States,  by  Maynard  A.  Amerine,  American  Chemical  Society,  1981 

Authored  a  chapter  entitled,  "Chardonnay, "  Vintners  Club;  Fourteen 
Years  of  Wine  Tastings.  1973-1987.  edited  by  Mary-Ellen  McNeil-Draper, 
Vintners '  Press 

Authored  and  presented  a  paper:  "Future  of  Controlled  Appellations:  Are 
They  in  the  Interest  of  the  Consumer?",  Masters  of  Wine  Symposium, 
Cambridge,  England,  July  1990 

Lectures/Panel  Discussions; 

Lecture,  "Botrytis  in  Northern  California  Coastal  Vineyards,"  Focus  on 
Chardonnay  Symposium,  Burgundy,  France,  July  1990 

Lecture,  "Chardonnay:  Two  Perspectives  from  the  Opposite  Sides  of  the 
Pacific,"  Tokyo,  Japan,  June  1990 

Lecture,  "Use  of  Barrels  in  Winemaking,"  Cape  Estate  Winegrowers, 
Capetown,  South  Africa,  January  1990 

Panel  member,  discussion  on  "Malolactic  Fermentation,"  Cool  Climate 
Symposium  for  Viticulture  and  Enology,  Auckland,  New  Zealand, 
January  1988 

Panel  member,  discussion  on  "Relative  Merits  of  Wine  Production  in 
Traditional  Areas  like  Europe  compared  to  'New  World'  Countries,  such  as 
Australia,  America,  New  Zealand...,"  Cool  Climate  Symposium  for 
Viticulture  and  Enology,  Auckland,  New  Zealand,  January  1988 

"Quality  Control:  Why  It  Is  Important  and  How  To  Set  Standards," 
University  of  California  Extension,  Davis,  April  1987 

"Use  of  Sulfur  Dioxide,"  Focus  on  Chardonnay  Symposium,  Sonoma-Cutrer 
Vineyards,  July  1986 

"Oxidative  Handling  of  White  Must  and  Other  Current  SO2  Practices," 
University  of  California,  Davis,  April  1986 


97 


ZELMA  R.  LONG 
Page  4 


"Vineyard  Assessment,"  University  of  California  Extension,  Davis, 
April  1986 


Co-lecturer,  Chardonnay  Style  Seminar,  "Grape  Maturity,"  "Vineyard 
Selection,"  "Phenolics  Control,"  New  York,  November  1985 

Maintaining  Creativity  in  Winemaking, "  Napa  School  of  Cellaring, 
July  1985 

"Use  of  Aroma  Assessment  and  Berry  Sugar  to  Test  Harvest  Parameters  at 
Simi  Winery,"  Eastern  Grape  Growers  Conference,  Rochester,  New  York,  ; 
November  1984 

"Testing  Benevolent  Vineyard  Stress  and  Other  Practices  to  Improve  Wine 
Quality  in  North  Coast  Vineyards,"  Eastern  Grape  Growers  Conference, 
Rochester,  New  York,  November  1984 

j 
"Production  Planning  for  the  Crush,"  University  of  California,  Davis,! 

November  1984 

"What  is  Ph?  and  How  to  Teach  It,"  Society  of  Wine  Educators  Conference, 
San  Luis  Obispo,  August  1984 

Moderator  for  Sonoma  County  Wine  Showcase,  August  1984 
"Phenolics,"  Napa  Valley  School  of  Cellaring,  July  1984 

"North  Coast  California,"  The  International  Symposium  on  Cool  Climate 
Viticultural  and  Enology,  Eugene,  Oregon,  June  1984 

"Oxygen  in  Winemaking  -  Enemy  or  Friend?",  Simi  Winery  Seminar, 
May  1984 

"Grape  Maturity,"  University  of  California,  Davis,  April  1984 

Panel  member,  discussion  on  "California  Regions,  Climates,  and  Graj 
Varieties,"  California  Wine  Experience,  San  Francisco,  October  1983 

"Simi  Winery's  Approach  to  Assessing  Grape  Maturity,"  Napa  Valley  Wine 
Technical  Group,  June  1983 

"Women  in  Agr iculture/ Winemaking, "  Fifth  Annual  Women  in  Agricultui 
Seminar,  University  of  California,  Davis,  February  1983 

Panel  member,  discussion  on  "Fashion  and  Future  of  Food,"  moderated  b} 
Julia  Child,  Southern  California  Culinary  Guild,  Santa  Barbara, 
California,  January  1983 

"Why  the  American  Vineyard  Foundation?",  California  Wine  Festiva] 
Monterey,  December  1982 


98 


ZELMA  R.  LONG 
Page  5 

"Advances  in  Wine  From  the  Vineyard,"  Simi  Winery  Wine  Writers  Seminar, 
August  1982 

"Ph  and  Vineyard  Advances,"  Simi  Winery  Wine  Writers  Seminar,  August 
1981 

"Wine  Quality  Has  Three  Aspects,"  Society  of  Wine  Educators  Conference, 
Santa  Rosa  Junior  College,  August  1981 

"Red  and  White  Winemaking  and  Barrel  Aging,"  Simi  Winery  Seminar, 
August  1981 

"How  I  Went  About  Designing  a  Fermentation  Cellar,"  California  Society 
of  Professional  Engineers,  May  1981 

"White  Table  Wine  Production  in  California's  North  Coast  Region,  Wine 
Industry  Technical  Seminar,  1981 

Panel  member,  "Women:   Involved  from  Vine  to  Glass,"  Sixth  Annual  Wine 
Symposium,  Healdsburg  Chamber  of  Commerce,  April  1981 

"Estimating  Winery  Cooperage  Needs,"  Filtration  Conference,  Monterey, 
February  1980 

Lecture,   "Oxidative   Handling   of   Chardannay,   and   Advances   in 
Viticulture,"  Adelaide,  Australia 

Awards : 

1991      MASI  Award,  International  Award  for  Enology,  Viticulture  and  Wine 
Marketing,  presented  by  Masi,  Verona,  Italy 

1989      Wine  and  Food  Achievement  Award,   First  Winemaker  recipient; 
Northern  California  Chapter,  American  Society  of  Wine  and  Food 

Professional  Wine  Judging; 

1991,  1980     North  West  Enological  Society 

1989-1990      Oregon  State  Fair 


(updated  August  23,  1991) 
C: \WP50\PROJ\ZRESUME 


99  . 

Appendix  B    /  Q  g  U_ 


SIMI 

SINCE       1876 


HISTORY  OF  SIMI  WINERY 


On  December  6.  1 88 1 .  two  Italian  immigrant  brothers.  Giuseppe  and  Pietro  Simi.  purchased  a  winery 
on  Front  Street  near  the  train  depot  in  Healdsburg.  California,  for  S2.250  in  gold  coin  and  named  it  "Simi 
Winery.  Although  Pietro  had  been  making  wines  at  their  San  Francisco  produce  business  since  1876.  this 
purchase  marked  the  brothers  commitment  to  winemaking  as  a  separate  enterprise. 

Pietro  continued  running  the  San  Francisco  business  whiJe  Guiseppe  took  responsibility  for  the  winery. 
Within  a  year  he  had  increased  its  capacity  to  1 00.000  gallons,  making  it  the  third  largest  of  the  Healdsburg- 
Windsor  area  s  seven  wineries. 

As  the  settlement  of  California  increased,  the  brothers  business  flourished  and  they  continued  to  ex 
pand.  In  188  3  they  purchased  126  acres  of  land  north  of  Healdsburg.  A  new  cellar  made  of  hand-hewn  stone 
was  completed  there  in  1 890  with  a  capacity  of  200.000  gallons  Guiseppe  named  it  "Montepulciano  Winery " 
in  honor  of  the  wine  district  in  Italy  where  he  was  bom.  This  winery  is  now  Simi  s  aging  cellar. 

The  brothers  holdings  grew  to  include  the  original  Simi  Winery  in  south  Healdsburg.  the  Montepul 
ciano  Winery  in  north  Healdsburg  surrounded  by  1 26  acres  of  grapes,  a  360  acre  tract  called  "King  Ranch 
to  the  north  of  Montepulciano.  and  200  more  acres  to  the  south. 

Then,  in  the  midst  of  doubling  Montepuloano's  capacity  to  400.000  gallons  both  brothers  died— Pietro 
in  |uly  and  Guiseppe  in  August  1904.  Although  it  must  have  been  a  staggering  blow  to  the  families,  the 
businesses  continued.  Pietros  family  assumed  control  of  the  San  Francisco  store  and  warehouse,  and 
Guiseppe  s  teenage  daughter  Isabelle  took  charge  of  the  wine  and  vineyard  operations. 

Isabelle  had  been  very  dose  to  her  father,  weighing  in  grapes  and  going  on  business  trips  with  him 
from  the  age  of  1 2.  Although  she  had  the  support  of  her  older  half-brother  Louis  and  experienced  employees 
it  was  nevertheless  an  amazing  undertaking  for  someone  her  age  But  she  met  the  challenge  and  managed 
the  business  alone  until  her  marriage  to  Fred  Haigh.  a  Healdsburg  bank  teller,  in  1908.  Over  the  years  he 
came  to  share  in  the  direction  of  the  Simi  business  and  finally  resigned  from  the  bank  in  1915. 

Then  came  Prohibition.  The  United  States  Congress  declared  it  illegal  to  manufacture  wine  after  May 
1.  1919.  or  to  sell  or  distribute  any  alcoholic  beverages  after  |une  30.  1919.  No  one  in  the  thriving  wine  in 
dustry  seemed  to  realize  the  havoc  this  amendment  would  cause.  Fred  Haigh.  like  many  winery  operators, 
believed  such  a  law  would  be  short-lived.  He  refused  to  sell  Simi  s  half  million  gallons  of  wine  on  hand  before 
the  deadline,  keeping  the  winery  full  as  Prohibition  went  into  effect  Simi  continued  to  work  the  vineyards 
and  made  small  amounts  of  sacramental  wines  under  strict  government  control,  but  the  financial  consequences 
of  restricted  business  for  the  1 4  years  of  Prohibition  were  the  eventual  loss  of  most  lands  and  vineyards  through 
forced  sale  or  foreclosure. 

Repeal  arrived  on  December  1933.  Much  of  the  first  wine  produced  to  satisfy  the  new  demand  was 
very  young  and  of  poor  quality— but  not  at  Simi.  Because  Guiseppes  rigid  quality  standards  maintained 
by  Isabelle.  included  harvesting  grapes  at  a  minimum  of  22  °  Brix  and  aging  the  red  wines  at  least  five  to  seven 
years,  and  because  Fred  Haigh  had  decided  not  to  sell  Simi  s  wine  14  years  earlier.  Simi  had  good  wines 


SIMI  WINERY.  PO  BOX  698  HEALDSBURC  CALIFORNIA  95448  •  (707)  433-t^KI  •  TWX  SIO  740-4244 


100 

immediately  available.  Some  were  exceptional.  Those  that  had  not  survived  the  many  years  of  aging  were 
sold  for  brandy-making  or  vinegar 

The  original  Simi  winery  in  south  Healdsburg  had  ceased  production  after  the  1906  earthquake  and 
ail  wines  were  made  at  Montepulciano.  During  the  reorganization  following  Repeal.  Isabelle  decided  to  label 
ail  wines  with  "Simi"  rather  than  the  difficult  to  pronounce  "Montepulciano." 

In  1936  she  had  one  of  the  winery's  enormous  redwood  champagne  tanks  rolled  outside  along  the 
road  and  created  a  retail  tasting  room  which  can  still  be  seen  today. 

By  1938  Parrot  &  Company  had  been  named  the  exclusive  distributor  of  Simi  Wines.  When  the  Hotel 
Del  Monte,  a  famous  old  Monterey  resort,  began  to  experience  difficulty  getting  fine  wines  from  Europe  during 
World  War  II.  they  enlisted  |ohn  Parrot  s  help  in  locating  a  high  quality  California  wine.  Their  red  wines  soon 
carried  the  Simi  name 

While  it  had  never  been  the  family's  practice  to  seek  publicity  or  promote  their  wines.  Parrot  manag 
ed  to  convince  Isabelle  to  enter  the  1 93  5  wines  in  the  1 94 1  California  State  Fair.  Simi  took  Gold  Medals,  the 
top  award,  for  its  'California  Cabernet."  "California  Zinfandel.  and  "California  Burgundy."  and  a  Silver  Medal 
(2nd  placet  for  its  'Pink  Champagne."  The  winery  s  reputation  for  quality  was  established  overnight  and  its 
wines  rapidly  appeared  on  the  menus  of  San  Franciscos  most  fashionable  restaurants 

Publicity  began  to  fade  when  Simi's  relationship  with  Parrot  ended  in  1 948.  Fred  Haigh  became  seriously 
ill.  An  only  child.  Vivien,  had  joined  the  family  business  following  Prohibition  under  parental  pressure.  Now 
more  responsibility  fell  on  her  shoulders  Upon  Fred  s  death  in  1 954.  mother  and  daughter  carried  on:  when 
Vivien  died  in  1968.  Isabelle.  still  tenacious  in  spirit  although  around  80  years  old.  continued  alone.  Finally. 
in  1970  Russell  Green,  a  former  President  of  Signal  Oil  Company  who  had  moved  to  the  Alexander  Vfelley 
and  planted  vineyards,  took  note  of  the  winery  s  neglected  and  disorganized  condition  and  convinced  Isabelle 
to  sell  Simi  to  him. 

Isabelle  still  did  not  abandon  what  had  been  so  much  a  part  of  her  life.  Through  three  subsequent 
ownership  changes  she  could  be  found  seated  on  her  stool  in  the  tasting  room  recounting  Simi  s  history  to 
visitors.  She  died  at  her  home  in  Healdsburg  October  16.  1981. 

Russell  Green  brought  Simi  into  the  modern  winemaking  world.  He  added  the  first  stainless  steel  tanks 
and  built  a  new.  larger  tasting  room  and  office  building.  During  the  reorganization,  he  discovered  old  wines. 
including  cases  of  the  famous  1935  Cabernet  Sauvignon.  forgotten  in  dark  comers  of  the  vast  stone  winery. 
He  hired  consulting  enologistAndre'Tchelistcheff  and  in  1972  they  took  the  forward-looking  step  of  appoint 
ing  Mary  Ann  Graf  as  Winemaker.  Acknowledged  as  America  s  first  woman  college-trained  winemaker.  her 
appointment  was  a  milestone  for  women  in  a  then  male-dominated  industry. 

Eventually  Russell  Green  grew  tired  of  the  heavy  demands  the  winery  placed  upon  him.  In  August  of 
1974  he  sold  Simi  to  Scottish  &  Newcastle  Vintners,  a  California-based  subsidiary  of  a  Scottish  brewing  com 
pany.  Its  Chairman.  Michael  Dixon.  had  spent  two  years  looking  for  the  right  California  winery  to  buy.  He 
had  become  so  involved  with  Simi  that  when  Scottish  &  Newcastle  decided  to  divest  itself  of  all  foreign  in 
vestments  and  sold  the  winery  to  Schieffelin  &  Co..  a  New  York  based  wine  and  spirits  importer,  in  May  1976. 
he  agreed  to  remain  as  President  of  Simi. 

Under  Schieffelin  s  ownership,  a  3-year.  $5.5  million  expansion  and  renovation  was  begun.  In  August 
of  1 980  a  1 4 .000  square  foot  fermentation  cellar  was  completed,  increasing  Simi  s  capacity  to  1 50.000  cases. 
Fifty-six  temperature-controlled  stainless  steel  tanks  ranging  in  size  from  500  to  1 2 .000  gallons  filled  the  new 
cellar.  Four  custom-designed  4 . 500  gallon  stainless  steel  tanks  elevated  20  feet  above  the  floor  directly  over 
a  state-of-the-art  bladder  press  allowed  the  skins  of  white  grapes  to  remain  in  contact  with  the  juice  to  ab 
sorb  the  grape  flavors  and  aromas  concentrated  in  the  skins. 

The  historic  stone  cellar  was  renovated.  Its  three-foot  thick  stone  walls,  ideal  for  maintaining  a  cool 
temperature  year-round,  were  stabilized.  Concrete  floors  and  drains  were  replaced  on  the  lower  levels  Wooden 
floors  and  support  beams  were  replaced  throughout  to  assure  that  all  four  levels  within  the  ancient  struc 
ture  were  capable  of  holding  the  more  than  7.000  60-gallon  new  French  oak  barrels  purchased  over  the  next 
few  years.  A  new  slant-beam  concrete  tile  root  covered  the  complex.  It  was  a  tremendous  effort  and  no  small 
expense,  an  indication  of  Simi  s  total  dedication  to  excellence. 

On  lanuary  6.  1981.  Moet-Hennessy.  Frances  second  largest  wine  and  spirits  company,  purchased 
Schieffelin.  its  U.S.  distributor,  and  thereby  acquired  Simi.  Moet-Hennessy  s  reputation  for  high-quality  lux 
ury  products  with  strong  traditions  of  fine  workmanship,  enhanced  Simi  s  stature  and  made  its  future  even 
more  promising. 


101 


INDEX- -Zelma  R.  Long 


A  x  R  rootstock,   78-80 

Alary,  Larry,   39 

American  Society  for  Enology  and 

Viticulture,   56 

American  Vineyard  Foundation,   88 
Amerine,  Maynard,   3 
appellation,  American  system  of, 

73-75 

Beringer  winery,   54,  83 
Biever,  Margrit,   20 

Biggers,  ,   36,  44 

Black,   Michael,   57-60 
Bureau  of  Alcohol ,  Tobacco ,  and 
Firearms,   73 

centrifuging,   19-20 
Christman,  Monika,   60-61 
Cooke ,  George  M. ,   4 
cooperage,   9,  11-13,  18,  20-23, 

25,  32,  33,  36,  43-46,  49,  51, 

82 
Croser,  Brian,   63 

Dixon,  Michael,   30,  37,  53,  63-65 
Domaine  Chandon  winery,   54,  83 
Dow,  Glen  and  Mary  Beth,   45 

Elliott-Fisk,  Deborah,   55,  57,  74 
equipment,   8,  10,  11,  19,  25,  26, 

28,  30,  32,  35.  36,  38-45,  50, 

58,  62,  79 

must  chiller,  38-41 

flavor,   5,  15,  22,  41,  45,  46, 
48,  51,  56,  57,  67-69,  84 

fermentation,   38-42,  44-45,  50-51 

Foundation  Plant  Material  Service, 
89 

"French  paradox,"   90 

Goldschmidt,  Nick,   60,  82-83 
Graf,  Mary  Ann,   29 
Grahm,  Randall,   77 
Grgich,  Miljenko  (Mike),   6-9, 
16-18,  20,  59 


Hobbs,  Paul,   51,  52,  57 
Horn,  Keith,   60 

Industry  Advisory  Council  for  the 
Department  of  Enology  and 
Viticulture,  UC  Davis,   89 

Kenworthy,  Diane,   37,  47,  48,  53, 

57,  59,  60 
Kliewer,   Mark,   54 

Lider,  Lloyd,   3,  4 

Lider,  Jim,   4 

Lindblom,   Barbara,   34,  44 

Long,  Zelma  R. 

as  Mondavi  head  enologist,   16-28 
family  and  childhood,   1 
education,   2,  3 
joins  Simi,   29 
professional  activities  and 
awards,   86-91 

Markel,  Chris,   36 

Masi  International  Award,   86 

McCorkle,  Tasha,   52 

Moet-Hennessy,   63,  64 

Mondavi,  Michael,   8 

Mondavi,  Robert,   6,  8-10,  15-17, 
23,  27,  83 

Mondavi,  Robert,  Winery,   6-28, 
29,  32,  34,  46,  54,  56,  59,  76 
change  and  innovation,   8 
vineyards  and  grapes,   23 

Napa  Valley  Wine  Technical  Group, 

88 
National  Grape  Crop  Advisory 

Council,   89 

Navarro  River  Vineyards,   77 
Noble,  Ann,   55,  67,  68 
North  Coast  Viticultural  Research 

Group,   54,  67,  83 

Olmo,  Harold  Paul,   5 


102 


Phelps  (Joseph)  Vineyards,   54,  83 
phylloxera,   78-81,  91 
Policy  Advisory  Committee, 

School  of  Agriculture,  UC  Davis, 

89 
Preston,  Lou,   76 

Ramey,  Dave,   39,  44,  51 
research,   10,  11,  25,  40,  54-56, 

59,  60,  66-68,  81,  83,  88 
Holland,  Michel,   60-61 

Scottish  &  Newcastle  Vintners,   65 
Schieffelin  &  Co. ,   64,  65 
Simi  Winery,   31-65 

growth  of,   32-36 

image  of,   63 

in  1979,   31 

international  business 

development,   64 
Smart,  Richard,   56,  67 
Sonoma  County  Wine  Technical 

Group,   88 

Stanford  Executive  Program,   64 
Stewart,  Leland,   4,  7 
Stony  Hill  winery,   4 

Tchelistcheff,  Andre,,   7,  27,  29, 

31 
terroir,   70-75 

United  Winegrowers  of  Sonoma 

County,   89 
University  of  California  at  Davis, 

2-6,  29,  39,  51,  54,  55,  57,  60, 

66,  67,  72,  74,  88,  89 

vineyards , 

close-spaced,   55 
importance  of  in  winemaking, 
68,  passim. 

Vintners  Club:  Fourteen  Years  of 

Wine  Tastings,   46 
viticulture,  2,  3,  9,  12,  23-24, 

37-39,  45,  47,  52-57,  59-61,  72, 

80,  82,  85,  86,  88,  89 

integration  with  winemaking,  66- 
70 


Werner,  Karl,   16,  17,  27 
winemaker,  changes  in  role,   85 
winemaking,   3,  6-13,  15-18,  20, 
22,  25,  26,  28-31,  33-36,  38,  39, 
41-46,  49,  51,  52,  55,  58,  60-63, 
66-69,  81,  82,  85,  86,  88 
temperature  in,  39-42 
evolution  of,   11-13 
site  specific,   12 
Women  for  Wine  Sense ,   86 


Grapes  Mentioned  in  Interview: 

Cabernet  Franc,   50,  77,  84 
Cabernet  Sauvignon,   49-50,  52, 

53,  55-57,  61,  75-77 
Carignane,   25 
Chardonnay,   4,  5,  40,  45,  46,  52, 

53,  75-77,  81 
French  Colombard,   25 
Malbec,   77 
Mataro,   76,  77 
Merlot,   50,  77 
Mondeuse ,   26,76 
Mourvedre ,   76 
Nebbiolo,   77 
Petit  Verdot,   50,  77 
Pinot  noir,   35,  75-77,  83 
Refosco,   77 

Riesling,   4,  5,  15,  25,  26,  76 
Sangiovese,   77 
Sauvignon  blanc ,   35,  51,  76,  77, 

83 

Semillon,   84 
Sylvaner,   76 


Wines  Mentioned  in  Interview: 

Cabernet  Franc,   50,  69,  77,  83 
Cabernet  Sauvignon,   11,  14,  15, 

23-26,  29,  35,  44,  60,  61,  67, 

69,  75-77,  83-84 
Chardonnay,   4,  5,  11-15,  20,  21, 

23,  25,  26,  28,  35,  40,  44-46, 

48,  49,  51,  52,  63,  70,  75-77, 

81-83 


103 


Chenin  Blanc,   35 

Camay  Beaujolais,   35 

Gewurztraminer,   35,  76,  77 

Malbec,   77 

Mataro,   77 

Heritage,   77 

Merlot,   50,  77,  83,  84 

Pinot  Noir,   35,  77,  83 

Petit  Verdot,   50,  77,  83 

Petite  Sirah,   76 

Riesling,   4,  5,  15,  25,  26,  76 

Rose  of  Cabernet,   35 

Sauvignon  Blanc,   14,  51,  76,  77 

Sylvaner,   25,  76 

Zinfandel,   14,  18,  25,  35,  76,  77 


Carole  E.  Hicke 


B.A. ,  University  of  Iowa;  economics 

M.A. ,  San  Francisco  State  University;  U.S.  history  with  emphasis  on  the 
American  West;  thesis:  "James  Rolph,  Mayor  of  San  Francisco." 

Interviewer/editor/writer,  1978 -present,  for  business  and  law  firm 
histories,  specializing  in  oral  history  techniques.  Independently 
employed. 

Interviewer-editor,  Regional  Oral  History  Office,  University  of  California, 
Berkeley,  1985  to  present,  specializing  in  California  legal,  political,  and 
business  histories. 

Author:  Heller.  Ehrman.  White  &  McAuliffe:  A  Century  of  Service  to  Clients 
and  Community.  1991. 

Editor  (1980-1985)  newsletters  of  two  professional  historical  associations: 
Western  Association  of  Women  Historians  and  Coordinating  Committee  for 
Women  in  the  Historical  Profession. 

Visiting  lecturer,  San  Francisco  State  University  in  U.S.  history,  history 
of  California,  history  of  Hawaii,  legal  oral  history. 


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