(navigation image)
Home American Libraries | Canadian Libraries | Universal Library | Community Texts | Project Gutenberg | Children's Library | Biodiversity Heritage Library | Additional Collections
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload
See other formats

Full text of "Presidential campaign activities of 1972, Senate resolution 60; Watergate and related activities"

^^^ PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES OF 1972 

^-] SENATE RESOLUTION 60 

EXECUTIVE SESSION HEARINGS 



BEFORE THE 



SELECT COMMITTEE ON 
PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES 



OF THE 



UNITED STATES SENATE 

NINETY-THIRD CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



WATERGATE AND RELATED ACTIVITIES 
Milk Fund Investigation 

WASHINGTON, D.C., DECEMBER 14, 18, 19, 20, AND 21, 1973 

Book 15 




Printed for the use of the 
Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities 

FRANKLIN PIERCE LAW CENTER 
Concord, New Hampshire Q33QI 

ON DEPOSIT OCT 7-^975 



PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES OF 1972 

SENATE RESOLUTION 60 



EXECUTIVE SESSION HEARINGS 



p. E FORE THE 



SELECT COMMITTEE ON 
PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES 



OF THE 



UNITED STATES SENATE 

NINETY-THIRD CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



WATERGxVTE AND RELATED ACTIVITIES 
Milk Fund Investigation 

WASHINGTON. D.C.. DECEMBER 14, IS. 19. 20, AND 21, 1973 

Book 15 




Printed for the use of the 
Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities 

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
30-337 O WASHINGTON : 1974 



For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office 
Washington, D.C. 20402 - Price $3.90 



SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON PRESIDENTIAL 
CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES 

(Established by S. Res. 60, 93d Congress, 1st Session) 



SAM J. ERVIN, Jr., North Carolina, Chairman 
HOWARD H. BAKER, Jr., Tennessee, Vice Chairman 

HERMAN B. TALMADGE, Georgia EDWARD J. GURNEY, Florida 

DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii LOWELL P. WEICKER, Jr., Connecticut 

JOSEPH M. MONTOYA, New Mexico 

Samuel Dash, Chief Counnel and Staff Director 

Fred D. Thompson, Minority Counsel 

RUFDS L. Edmisten, Deputy Chief Counsel 

Arthur S. Miller, Chief Consultant 

David M. Dorsen, Assistant Chief Counsel 

Terry F. Lenzner, Assistant Chief Counsel 

James Hamilton, Assistant Chief Counsel 

Carmine S. Bellino, Chief Investigator 

Marc Lackritz, Assistant Counsel 

James C. Moore, Assistant Counsel 

Ronald D. Rotunda, Assistant Counsel 

W. Dennis Summers, Assistant Counsel 

Alan S. Weitz, Assistatit Counsel 

Robert F. Muse, Jr., Assistant Counsel 

Mark J. Biros, Assistant Counsel 

Wayne H. Bishop, Chief Field Investigator 

R. Scott Armstrong, Investigator 

Michael J. Hersiiman, Investigator 

Donald G. Sanders, Deputy Minority Counsel 

Howard S. Liebengood, Assistant Minority Counsel 

Michael J. Madigan, Assistant Minority Counsel 

Richard L. Schultz, Assistant Minority Counsel 

Robert Silverstein, Assistant Minority Counsel 

Carolyn M. Anduade, Administrative Assistant 

Carolyn E. Cohen, Office Manager 

Joan C. Cole, Secretary to the Minority 

[Executive session hearings released to tlie public after the filing 
of the final report of the Senate Select Committee.] 

(II) 



CONTENTS 



HEARING DAYS Page 

Fridav, December 14. 1973 0379 

Tuesday. December IS, 1973 6.j01 

Wednesday, December 19, 1973 6599 

Thursday. December 20. 1973 6755 

Friday. December 21. 1973 6791 

CHRONOLOGICAL LLST OF WITNESSES 

Friday, Dpx'embek 14, 1973 

Jacobseu. Jake, former member of the hiw tirms of .Tacobsen and Long of 
Austin, Tex., and Semer. White and .Tacobsen of Washington. D.C. ISotli 
tiruLs were retained by Associated ^lilk I'roducers. Inc.. accompani(>d by 
Charles A. McNeils, counsel 6379 

Tuesday, December 18, 1973 

Nelson, Harold S.. former general manager of Associated Milk I'rodncers, 
Inc.. accompanied by James W. Gallman, counsel 6501 

Wednesday, December 19, 1973 

Nelson, Harold S., testimony resumed 6599 

Thursday, December 20. 1973 

Parr. David L.. former assistant to the general manager. Associated Milk 
I'roducers. Inc.. accompanied by Fred Gibson, counsel 6775 

Friday, December 21, 1973 

Parr, David L., testimony resumed 6791 

EXHIBITS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD 

Jacobsen Exhibits 

No. 1 — (6383) Check and voucher of Associated Milk Producers for 
$12,013.37. dated September IS. 1970. Attached is 
Jacobsen and Long invoice dated Seiitemlier 11. 1970_ 6479 
No. 2— (G392) Loan application for Bob Lilly, dated Decemljer 17, 

1909. in the amount of $100.(XK)— payable in (iO days__ 6481 

No. 3 — Previously printed as Lilly exhibit No. 4 in Book 14 5995 

No. 4 — (6397) Invoice from AMPI to Bob Lillv in amount of $10,000. 

dated December 17 1969 6482 

No. 5— (6397) L^eposit slip dated Decemlter 17. 1969, for accotnit of 

Jacobsen and Long in amoiuit of $10.000 0483 

Nos. thru 17— (0398-0404) Citizens National Bank of Austin cliecks 
made out to Jake J;icobsen or .Toe R. Long, in vari- 
ous amounts from $1,000 to $20,000, all dated in 

1970 and signed by Eula Bulkley 0484-87 

No. 18— (0426) FBI inventory list of $10,000 that was in Jake Jacob- 
sen's safety deposit box G4S8 

Nos. 19 thru 22 — ((>432-33) Four checks to Jake Jacobsen or Joe R. 
Long ; two checks for $2,250 and two for $2,750. 
Dates are February 15 and November 10, 1971 — 

all signed by Eula I'.ulkley 0495-96 

Nos. 23 and 24 — (6435) Two checks from AMPI to Jacobsen and Long 
dated February 8, 1971. One check is for $11,000 
and the other is for .$5,636. with an attaclied 

invoice 6497-98 

No. 25— (6430) Check to Jake Jacobsen for $30,000 dated Novemljer 

10, 1971. signed by Eula Bulkley 0500 

Nelson Exhibits 

No. 1 — (0541) Letter to I'resident Nixon from Patrick J. Hillings 
dated December 10. 1970, re section 22, Tariff Com- 
mission (Milk) Recommendation — Presidential Proc- 
lamation 0701 

No. 2 — (0545) News release dated January 5, 1971, re speech made by 
Mr. Butterbrodt with respect to import quotas 6703 

Note. — Figures in parentheses indieate r-ige that exhibit was made part of the record. 

(Ill) 



IV 
Nexson Exhibits — Cont. Page 

No. 3 — (6546) Letter to Harold Nelson from Henry Oashen dated 
January 30, 1971, re photographs taken at a briefing 

at the White House 6704 

No. 4 — (6553) Letter to Clifford M. Hardin from Marion Harrison 
dated January 14, 1971, re meeting with the presi- 
dent of dairy industry. Enclosure attaclied 6705 

No. 5 — (6561) Handwritten notes of Mr. Nelson 6709 

No. 6 — (6568) Part of phone call records of Mr. Nelsoa for March 23, 

1971 6710 

No. 7 — (6634) Marion Harrison letter to Charles Colson dated March 
11, 1971, re dairy industry — S5 pen-eat of parity. 
Also one page of March 4, 1971, Congressional 

Record 6711 

Letter from Marion Harrison to John C. Whitaker 
dated March 19, 1971, re S5 percent of parity for 

dairy industry, Ai)ril 1, 1971 6714 

Letter from DeVier Pierson to Robet-: Isham dated 
March .30, 1971, re legality of loan by TAPE to an- 
other trust 6716 

) AiJril 29, 1971, letter to DeVier Pierson from Rol>ert 
Isham re reporting requirements of loan to Al^El'T 

from TAPE 6717 

) Note from Marion Harrison listing 101 committee 

names 671S 

) Letter from Marion Harrison to Har(;Id Nelson dated 
.Tune 29. 1971. enclosing 24 names and addresses of 

committees to use in contributi(ms 6723 

) Marion Harrii^on letter to Rol)ert Isham dated July 8, 
1971, enclosing names and addresses of committees 

for contributions 6730 

) Letter from Robert Isham to Marion Manison dated 
October 4. 1971. enclosing correspondence to and 
from W. Pat Jennings. Clerk of the House, concern- 
ing contributions. Some attaclunents are included 6742 

No. 15 — (6()55) Letter from George ^Mehren to Harold Nelson dated 
May 19, 1971, concerning discussions ",'ith Assistant 

Secretarie.s' Lyng and Palmby on May 13 6750 

No. 16 — (6682) Long-distance telephone charges 6754 



No. 


8— (6634) 


No. 


9— (6640) 


No. 


10— (6640 


No. 


11— (6641; 


No. 


12— (6644 


No. 


13— (6645 


No. 


14— (6647 



Parr E.xiiibits 

No. 1— (6756) 

No. 2— (6769) 

No. 3— (6779) 

No. 4— (68.35) 
No. 5— (6836) 
No. 6— (6839) 

No. 7— (68-10) 

No. 8— (6842) 
No. 9— (6888) 
No. 10— (6890 
No. 11— (6893 



Letter from David Parr to Harold Nelson dated June 

12, 1908, concerning objectives and progress reptu-t- P^ifo 
ing within MPI 6907 

Memorandum to Harry S. Dent from Harold Nelson 
dated August 19. 1969. Subject : Invitatiim to Presi- 
dent to address annual meeting of Associated 
Dairymeu, Ine 6909 

Letter from Stuart Russell to Alan Weitz of the Select 
Committee regarding money delivered to certain 
employees of AMPI 6910 

Letter to David Parr from William Coiiaell dated Jan- 
uary 22, 1971, re meeting in Louisville 6911 

AMPI Outline Proposal prepared by Valentine, Sher- 
man and Associates 6912 

— Six AMPI checks to Valentine, Sherman and Associ- 
ates in amounts ranging from $7,000 to $27,500, 
dated from July to December 1971 6919 

Letter from Jack Valentine to Dave Parr dated August 
3, 1971, re AMPI's payment to A''aleutine. Sherman 
and Associates 0923 

Valentine letter to Dave I'arr enclosing various in- 
voices for Iowa project 6924 

Letter to David Parr from ^Murray Ciiotiner regarding 

list of 1(K) conunittees for use in cont riluitions 0930 

) David Parr letter to Rob Isham dated August 9, 1971. 

regarding mailing of contributions 6931 

) :Memorandum from Robert Isham to H. S. Nelson, in- 
cluding correspondence to and from W. Pat .Ten- 
nings, Clerk of the House, concerning TAPE re- 
ports 6932 



Note. — Figures in pareutheses iiuliCcite page that exhibit was made Dart of the record. 



PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES OF 1972 
MILK Fl NI) INVESTIGATION 



PKIDAY, DECEMBER 14, 1973 

U.S. Sexate, 
Select Comiviittee on 
Pkesidexi'IAl Caimeaicx Activities, 

W ashington., D .C . 

The Select Coininittee met. pursuant to notice, at 10 i-lo a.m., in room 
109, Russell Senate Office Buiklin<j;. 

Present : Senator Talmadfre. 

Also present: Sanniel Dash, chief counsel; David Doi'sen, assistant 
chief counsel: Alan Weitz, assistant majority counsel; and Don Sand- 
ers, deputy minority counsel. 

Senator Tal^madge. ]Nfr. Jacohscn, will you hold up your I'i^ht hand? 

Do you solemnly swear that tlie evidence that you shall give the 
Select'Committee of the Senate to investigate the election irregulari- 
ties of the Presidential campaign in 1!)72, Avill be the truth, tlie whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Jacobsex. 1 do, sir. 

Senator Talmadge. Anything else ? 

Mr. Dorsex'. Xo, Senator. 

We will adjourn to room 1 41S. 

[Whereupo]!, tlie hearing was adjoui'nod to room 1418, Dirksen 
Senate Oihce IVuilding.] 

Mr. Weitz. ]\Ir. Jacobsen, for the re<'ord would you state your full 
name and address, please ? 

TESTIMONY OF JAKE JACOBSEN, AUSTIN. TEX., ACCOMPANIED 
BY CHARLES A. McNELIS, COUNSEL 

]Mr. Jacorsex. Jake Jacobst>n, 2305 Sunnyslope. Austin, Tex. 

Mr. Weitz. And would your comisel please identify himself for the 
recoi-d ? 

Mr. INIcXelis. Charles A. McXelis, attorney in Washington, the 
firm of Welch and ^Morgan. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Jacobs(>n, 1 undeistand you worked in the White 
House for a period of time in tlie mid-lJ)60's. 

Could you tell us what your position was, and for what term? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. I woi'ked in the. White House fiom ^lay 1965 
until May 19GG. And I was called legislative counsel to the President. 

Mr. Weitz. And in 1067 did you leave the White House I 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Weitz. And what did you become employed in at that time? 

Mr. Jacobsex^. I practiced law. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you have a firm at that time ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you state the name of the firm ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, Jacobsen and Long. 

Mr. Weitz. And that was located in Austin, Tex. ? 

(6379) 



6380 

Mv. Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wkitz. And jou remained a member of that linu until 1!)72 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. That is right. 

Mr. WErrz. Did you affiliate with another firm at the same time in 
19C8 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, I affiliated with another man, Milton Semer. 
And we became the firm of Semer and Jacobsen. 

And su})sequently Mr. Lee White came in with us, and ^^•e l)ecame 
the firm of Semer, White and Jacobsen. 

Mr. Weitz. And that firm was in existence until l'.»72 also? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. WErrz. You knew both Mr. Semei- and Mr. White from the 
Wliite House ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

j\Ir. WErrz. Were both firms of Jacobsen and T^ong and Semer, 
White and Jacobsen retained by Associated Milk Piothicers and its 
predecessors, Milk Producers, Inc. 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Can you tell us when these firms were first retained by 
them? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I think the Austin firm was retained in 1*J()S. 

Mr. McNelts. Mr. Jacobsen, for the record, can we get the Austin 
firm? Is that .lacobsen and Long? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. WErrz. And the Washington firm is Semer, White and 
Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. I figured I would cut it short. And the Wash- 
ington firm was employed in the same year. I think. 

Mr. Weitz. 1968? 

INIr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

]\Ir. Weitz. I think for the record we may refer to Associated ]VIilk 
Producers as AMPI and Milk Producers as MPI. 

Who did you have contact with at AMPI and MPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Mr. Nelson and Mr. Pair. 

Mr. Weitz. When did you first meet those gentlemen ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. At the White House. 

Mr. Weitz. When you were employed at the White House? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And for what purpose were you retained ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. General legal woi'k. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us principally what tyi)e of legal Avork 
you, in fact, performed for them for their organizations? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Well, our firm performed all types of work. We ap- 
peared before State agencies, and represented them in lawsuits, and 
just did general legal work. 

Mr. Weitz. How about yourself, did you, as opposed to your part- 
ners, perform or give advise in a particular area primarily? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Well, I think I primarily gave advice in the })olitical 
area. 

Mr. Weitz. What do you mean by that ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Well, the relationship — the govermnental relations. 

Mr. Weitz. Primarily relations with the Federal (Tovernment ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes — and State government. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. 



6381 

Did there come a time ■\vlien yon advised tliem in coimection with tlie 
formation of the Trnst for Ao-ricnitnral Politicnl Edncation known 
as l^ATM^: ( 

JNIr. Jacobsex. Yes, sii'. 

Mr. WF.rrz. Could yon tell ns about that I 

Mr. Jacobskx. Well, someone came to me with the idea o^ -ganizing 
a i)olitical activity fund trust, similar to AFL(^I()'s (X)l'.!, and they 
asked me about the feasibility of doin<i- that, and how it would woik. 

And I thon<jht that it was a i>ood idea, and so told tlieni. 

Mr. Weitz. "Who came to you for this advice I 

Mr. Jacobsex. I think ]\Ir. Xelson and Mr. Parr, either. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember when they first came to you and dis- 
cussed this with you ? 

j\Ir. Jacobsex. No, I don't. 

Mr. WErrz. Was it in 1968 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Probably. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know wlien TAPE was formed? 

Mr. Jacobsex. In 1968, 1 believe. 

]Mr. Weitz. Do 3'ou know when it first started to icceive contril)u- 
tions from members? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't, INIr. Weitz, no. 

Mr. Weitz. Did there come a time when you discussed the possibility 
or in fact the organization of TAl^E with ]Mr. Comially ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No; I don't remember talking to ]Mr. (V)imallv about 
TAPE at all. 

Mr. Weitz. How^ long had you known ]Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Oh, about 25 years. 

Mr. Weitz. Had you ever "held any formal positions in either his 
administi'ation or any offices that he held '( 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. No, sir. 

]\rr. Weitz. Were you a close personal friend of the (TO^'ernor's? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

]Mr. Weitz. Did you advise him on political matters? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. I did later, yes. 

Maybe I ought to explain. My primary association was with a man 
named Price Daniel. And I woi-ked for Price Daniel when he was at- 
torney general, I^.S. Senator, and Governor. And in working with 
Price Daniel I got to know Seci'etary Connally. And eventually Con- 
nally ran against Daniel foi' (Jovernor, and beat him. And in that elec- 
tion I was Daniel's cami)aign manager. So, I didn't advise Connally 
much about politics until after that election was o\-er, and then we 
became friends. 

JNIr. Weitz. And would you say you have seen him fre(}uently over 
the years since that time ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know ■ ■• 

]Mr. Dash. The question was aftei- he became Governor did you ad- 
vise him on political matters. 

]Mr. Jacobsex'. Not really, after he became Governoi- T didn't advise 
him much. I talked to him from time to time about political matters, 
but I wasn't really one of his advisers ; I wouldn't call myself that. 

Mr. Weitz. For the years 1068 and 1969, after you Avere retained by 
AMPI, did you ever discuss with him any matters in connection with 
the dairy co-ops ? 



6382 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. "VVeitz. In those 2 years ? 

Mr. Jacobsen-. No, sir. 

Mr. :McNelis. Excuse me. That was 1968 and 1969 ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Did you ever discuss during those 2 years any contemplated or com- 
pleted political coiitributions by TAPE with Mr. Connally^ 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

JNIr. Weitz. Do you know whether he was aware of any contributions 
mad(> during that period of time ^ 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't know. 

Mr. Dash. He was aware of your relationshi]) with AiSlPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't think he was. When he was Governor, he 
was aware of it. 

Mr. Dash. During the 1968-69 period ? 

INIr. Jacobsen. I don't know that he was. 

Mr. Dash. In your friendly or frequent meetings or discussions it 
never came up that you had this relationship ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. It may have, but I don't recall that specifically. 

Mr. McNelis. Is it fair to say you do not know whethei" he was or 
was not aware of your relationship with the (lovernor ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. That is right, that is what I am saying to you. 

Mr. Weitz. At least he didn't know of it from you '? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Can you also have any other formal or infornral rela- 
tionship with the other dairy co-ops, one being Mid-America Dairy- 
men, Inc., and the other one, Dairymen, Inc. 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir, not during that period of time. 

Mr. Weitz. When you say informal relationships, did you meet 
with any officials of those two co-ops or engage in any discussions with 
them, even though you may not have been retained by them? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Are you talking about 1968 and 1969'^ 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't think so. 

Mr. Weitz. Did there come a time wdien in fact you were either 
retained by them or had contact w4th them, in 1973? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. You ultimately were retained by them? 

Mr. Jacobsen. In 1973. 

Mr. Weitz. Before that time, between 1970 and 1973. did you ever 
have contact w'itli the other two dairy co-ops? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

]SIr. Weitz. And wdiat was the nature of your contact? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I made speeches for them and advised their 
memberships. 

Mr. Weitz. What type of advice did you give their membership? 

Mr. Jacobsen. On political activities. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you advise them with regard to the formation 
of organizations similar to TAPE? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No; I didn't advise them as to that. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you aware that in fact they did form organi- 
zations similar to TAPE? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I was aw-are of that; yes. 



6383 

]Mr. Weitz. And the organization formed by INIid-America is called 
ADEPT, and the oroanization formed by Dairymen was SPACE; 
were you aAvare of that? 

jNIr. Jacobsex. Yes; I was aware of that. 

]Mr. Weitz. "Who did you have contact with in those two other co- 
ops, ]Mi(l-America first and then Dairymen, Inc.? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. Mid-America was primarily Gary Hanman; and 
Dairymen, Inc., was primarily Ben Morgan. 

Mr. Weitz. And before you were i-etained by either of the two 
co-ops in 1973. did you ever receive any form of compensation from 
them? 

^[r. Jacobsex. No. sir. 

:Sh\ Weitz. In the period IOCS to 1072? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Not that I know of. The AAIIT might have billed 
them for the speeches I made for t1iem. l)Ut 1 didn't receive compen- 
sation direct from theui. 

Mr. Weefz. I have here — I woidd like to mark it as exhibit 1 — a 
check and voucher of Associated Milk I'roducers dated September 18, 
1970, in tlie amount of $1-2.()1.">.;)7 to Jacobsen and Long. Attached to it 
is an invoice, Jacobsen and Long, dated September 11. 1970. And 
there are two items listed: "For professional services rendered on 
behalf of Mid-America, 5>.5.0()0; for professional services rendered on 
behalf of Dairymen, Incorporated, S2/)00."' 

Will you identify these, please? 

[The "documents 'referred to were marked Jacobsen exhibit No. 

jNIr. Weitz. Have you ever seen a copy of that check or this invoice ? 

^Ir. Jacobsex. Yes, I have seen the invoice, and I liave seen the 
check. 

Mr. AVeitz. So in fact did this represent services that you rendered 
to the other two co-ops and for which vou received compensation 
directly from A^NIPI? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. That is correct. 

Mr. McNelis. Mr. Weitz, rather than putting the question that 
way, could you have the witness say liimself what that represents? 

^Iv. Weei'z. He has answered the (piestion. but he may elaborate. 

Mr. McNelis. For the future. 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. As I say, I didn't receive any compensation direct 
from Dairymen or Mid-America. I received compensation from AINIPI 
for work tliat I did for Dairymen and Mid- America, and they may 
have received compensation. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Just to backtrack for a moment and get a general 
picture of your relationship, for example, with AMPI — could you 
tell us what compensation arrangements you had with them, each 
of your two firms? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes. ... : . 

I know the Austin firm had an arrangement for a retainer of 
$•2,500 a month, plus billing extra i'or work done, majcn- work done. 
And the same arrangement was with the Washington firm, 

Mr. Weitz. And tliat was also $2,500 a month? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes. 

*Seep. 6479. 



6384 

Mv. Weitz. Did the amount of the retainer remain constant 
throughout the period that you were retained? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

Ml". Weitz. And did you bill for additional work done ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was tliat based on hours spent on work for them. 

Mr. Jacobsex. Well, generally, yes. 

Mv. Weitz. And did your firm retain records of hourly work and 
so forth? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, only in certain instances. For example, if I 
went to make a speech I didn't bill them on the number of hours I 
spent, that would have been too high. I billed them a -set rate. 

JNIr. Weitz. And what was your retainer relationship — or were 
you on a retainer relationship with either ]Mid-America or Dairymen? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Just for work performed on an hourly or billed basis? 

Mr. Jacobsen. You mean since 1973? 

]Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. I am on a retainer basis now. 

Mr. Weitz. V/hat is the retainer now^? 

Mr. Jacobsen. $1,000 a month. 

]Mr. Weitz. For each of the other two ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. For each of the other two. 

Mr. Weitz. In 19()S) did you ever discuss with au^^one from TAPE the 
possibility of TAPE or those on behalf of TA1*E making unreported 
political contributions. 

Mr. McNelis. Excuse me. 

Do you get the full import of that question ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, I clo. 

Mr. McNeijs. Could we have the question restated ? 

Mr. Weitz. I would like to have the witness answer that question, 
and then if he has additional response, or if I feel an additional ques- 
tion is necessary. I will ask it. 

Mr. McNelis. My objection is for the future. You are reading into 
the ([uestion assumptions that are not necessarily grounded in fact. 

Mr. Jacobsen. I was going to take cai'e of that. 

Mr. McNelis. OK, Mr. Jacobsen. (to ahead. 

Mr. jAcor.SEN. I discussed with TAPE the possibility of making 
some contributions to the Kepublican Paity, not necessarily unre- 
poi-ted; I didn't discuss anything about lepoited or unreported. 

Mr. Weitz. Who did you discuss these matters with, people from 
TAPE? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Nelson and Parr. 

Mi-. Weitz. Now about Bob Isham, did you ever discuss any such 
matter with him ? 

Mr. Jacob.sen. No, sir, I don't think I did. 

Mr. Weitz. And you nevei- suggested to him that moneys collected 
from time to time from TAPE members should not be reported in 
TAPE'S reporting and that those moneys be available for cash political 
contributions. 

Ml'. Jacobsen. Oh, no. 

Mr. Weitz. Or i)olitical contributions of any sort, but not reported? 

Mr, Jacobsen. I don't remember ever saying that. 



6385 
Mr. Weitz. Did you evor <>i\e any advice to Mr. Isliain with regard 

to tapp: i 

Mr. Jacohskx. I am sure I did. V>\\t 1 don't recall what it was specifi- 
cally. 

^ir. AVrnz. Aiid wasn't Mr. Ishaiii the trustee for TAPE, and there- 
fore he had the sole responsibility for disbursement of funds from 
TAPE I 

Mr. Jacobsex. That is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever give him ad\icc with regard to reporting 
requirements for TAPE ? 

Air. Ja('()I5sen. T may have. 

Mr. WErrz. You say you may ha\ c. What exactly is your recollection 
in that regard^ 

^fi'. Jacoe.sex. I don't have a hiin I'ccollection. 1 think he got his 
advice from Mr. Pierson. 

Mr. WErrz. DeVier Pierson '. 

Mr. ] )asi [. Who was he 'I 

Mr. Jacobsex. A lawyer here in Washington. 

iVIr. WErrz. He was retained by AM PI also l 

Mr. Jac'orsex. Yes, he was retained by AMPI. 

Mr. AVErrz. And didn't he work in the White House in 1967-68? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, llXiS ; somewhere in there. 

Mr. Wejtz. Did you know that he was retained by AMPI at the 
time in 1U69, for example i 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, 1 think so. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you e\er discuss with Mr. Pierson the reporting 
recjuirements or other requirements with resi)ect to TAPE? 

Mr. Jacc^bsex'^. Xo, sir. 

Air. Wrrrz. You mentioned that you discussed with Nelson and Parr 
on behalf of TAPE, contributions, without regard to whether or not 
they would be reported. 

Do you recall what con\ersatioiis you had in IIKU) with respect to 
possible contributions to President Nixon oi- to the Republican Party? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Well, during 19()9, the general attitude prevailed that 
the milk peoi)le. Parr, Nelson, et cetera, were trying to find a way to 
get a inore syivq)athetic ear in the Pepublican administration, since they 
had supported Senator Humphrey and had not su])ported President 
Nixon. And it was generally talked about soine way of getting that 
sympathetic ear either l)y making a contribution or by doing some- 
thnig. 

]Mr. Weitz. AVho engaged in these discussions ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. My best recollection is that it was Mr. Nelson, Mr. 
Parr, Mr. Semer. and myself. 

Mr. WErrz. Whei'e did these discussions take place, do you recall? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. No, I don't. 

Ml'. Weitz. Did any take place in the Executive Inn in Dallas, Tex. ? 

Mr. Ja( OBSEX. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Why was Mr. Semer involved ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Well, Mi. Semer was Washington counsel for AMPI 
and advised with AMPI on the Washington problems. 

Mr. Weitz. Was any one of those four gentlemen you have named, 
including yourself, in touch with the administration on this question? 



6386 

Mr. Jacobsen, Well, Mr. Semer did eventually get in touch with Mr. 
Gleason. 

Mr. WErrz. That was Jack Gleason who was in the White House at 
the time? 

Mr. jAroBSP:x, I thought he was in the Commerce Department. 

Mr. WErrz. Your recollection is, he contacted him while he was in 
the Connnerce Department ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Wj:itz. Did he contact anyone else in the administration? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Eventually he talked to Attorney General Mitchell. 
But this was subsequent. 

My recollection has been refreshed. Mr. McNelis refreshed my recol- 
lection. He did not talk to Mr. Mitchell befoi-e he made the cimtribu- 
tion to Mr. Kalmbach. 

Mr. Weij'z. Do you know who suggested, or in fact if anyone sug- 
gested, that ]Mr. Semer or anyone on behalf of AMPl contact Mr. 
Kalmbach ? 

Mv. Jacobsen. Mr. Gleason suggested to Mr. Semer that he get in 
touch with Mr. Kalmbach to handle the problem of trying to get a 
more sympathetic understanding within the Kcpublican administra- 
tion. 

Mr. Weh'z. Do you know whether Mr. Kalmbach had any official 
capacity in the administration? 

JNlr. .Jacobsen. I don't know. 

"Sir. WErjz. What was your understanding of Mr. Kalmbach's rela- 
tionship to the President or to the administration ? 

Mr. .Jacobsen. I understood he was the Piesident's lawyer. 

Mr. Weitz. Was he also a fundraiser for the President? 

Mr, jAC()r>sEX. I didn't know that at the time. I subsequently found 
out he was a fundraiser. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you understand why it was suggested that in order 
to gain a sympathetic ear with the administration that someone on 
l)ehalf of AMPI contact Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. I didn't know why that contact was to be made. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it for the purpose of making a political contribu- 
tion to the President ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, not originally; it didn't start out at that. 

Mr. WErrz. How did it start out? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. It started out that Mr. (jleason advised Mr. Semer 
that the peison he ought to talk to, to get a more sympathetic under- 
standing in the administration, was Mr. Kalmbach. 

Mr. WErrz. You say 3'our recollection was lefreshed by ilr. Semer 
in coimection with his contacts with Attorney General Mitchell? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. WErrz. Gould you tell us under what circumstances you dis- 
cussed this mattei- with Mr. Semer? 

Mr. Jacobsen. He went to the hospital to have an operation, and 
I called Inm to see how he was doing. And he had read the articles in 
the paper that had come out after my deposition for the Nader group. 

Mr. AVeeiz. That is just in the last month ? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. And he said I had made a mistake by saying 
that he had contacted Attorney Geueial Mitchell. 

Mr. AVErrz. l^efore the contiibution was nuide? 



6387 

]Mr. .Tacousex. Yes. 

Mr. Wkitz. In the deposition, in making the statement that you 
understood Mr. Seiner to have contacted Mr. Mitcliell before the con- 
tribution, on what did you base that '( 

Mr. Jacouskx. Tliat was just my ui>derstandin<]:. I just thought that. 

Mr. AVinrz. Mr. Semei' had told you that at the time, is tliat conect? 

Mr. jAconsKx. No. I thoujilit he did, but lie hadn't. 

Mr. AVEnz. lie was your law partner at the time, was he not? 

Mr. ,Ia(()I5sex. Yes. 

Mr. WErrz. "Were you in almost daily contact witli him ( 

Mr. Jac^obsex. Almost, not (piite. 

Mr. AVErrz. Is it likely that he would have told you what he was 
doinii', who in t\\v administration he was contactiiui' on behalf of 
AMPl^ 

^Ir. ]McXeeis. I have an objection to tliat ((uestion. I don't think this 
witness is in a position to say what Mr. Semer likely may or may not 
liave been doin<r. 

Mr. AVeitz. In terms of your experience, did, in fact, Mr. Semer 
report to you fairly regularly witli regard to his actions on behalf of 
clients of yours, ot- common clients? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes ; he did. 

Mr. AA^i ir/. Do voii recall whetlier he did so in connection with 
AMPI? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. He did fairly so. 

Mr. AA^EiTZ. Do you recall wlietlicr he reported to you in connection 
with his contacts with the admiuistiatidu siuh as with Mr. ]Mitchell on 
behalf of AMPI? 

Mr. Jacobsex. He may have. 

Mr. AA^EiTZ. And with Air. Glcason ? 

]Mr. JACf)i'.sEx. Yes, lie may have. 

Mr. AA^EiTZ. Aiul was it based on your recollection of those convei^a- 
tions that you tii'st testified that he contacted Mr. Mitchell before the 
contribution ( 

Mr. Jacobsex. Correct. J got the understanding that he contacted 
Mr. Mitchell before the contiibution was made, and Mr. Semer cor- 
rected me on that. I don't know how I got the impression that he con- 
tacted him befoi'(>. 

Mr. AA^Errz. Did you ever talk with Mr. Kalmbach about this in 
IDCD t 

Mr. jACor.SEX. No; I didn't know Mr. Kalmbach. 

Mr. AA^Errz. AVould you tell us what took place after the suggestion 
was made that Mr. Semer contact ]\lr. Kalmbach? 

yir. Jacobsex. AA^'ell, Mr. Semei' went out and talked to Mr. Kalm- 
bach, talked to him about the milk jjroblems, and about the general 
situation. And Mr. Kalmbach was sym])athetic. And that was the 
end of the conversation. 

Subsequently, Mr. Kalmbach was at the Madison Hotel and ran into 
Mr. Semei-, and suggested to Mr. Semei- that tlie milk people make a 
contribution of $1()0,()00. 

Mr. AA^EiTz. Had ]Mr. Semer, before that time, ever discussed the 
question of contributions with Mr. Kalmbach? 

^Ir. Jacobsex. I don't think so. I don't know. You will have to ask 
Semer. 



6388 

Mr. Wkitz. AVlio did Mr. Kalinbach siigoest would receive the con- 
tribution, or how woukl the contribution be nu\de ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Bear in mind, I am giving you a lot of hearsay, be- 
cause this is Semer's conversation, not mine. But I understand that he 
told Mr. Semer to make that to him. 

Mr. Weitz. Was this connected to the attempt by AMPI to get a 
sympathetic ear or undei-standing from the "White House? 
Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. In fact this was a direct consequence of having contacted 
Mr. Kalmbach as a result of Mr. Semer's contact with the administra- 
tion? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. Kalmbach specified to Mr. 
Semer in what form the contribution should be made? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I understand that he did. I find it very difficult to 
answer hearsay questions. 

Mr. Weitz. You said that you recall Mi'. Semer reported to you 
fairly regularly on his contacts on behalf of common clients? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. So your recollection, although it may be based on hear- 
say, is based on information that you probably received contemporane- 
ous to such events ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. But hearsay nonetheless. 

Mr. Weitz. I understand. 

Mr. Jacobsen. What was your question again ? 

Mr. Weitz. Whether Mr. Kalmbach specified to Mr. Semer the form 
in which the contribution should be made ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. My understanding was that Mr. Kalmbach specified 
that it ought to be made in cash. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Kalmbach say why it should be made in cash? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether there was any discussion between 
Mr. Kalmbach and Mr. Semer concerning the way in which such a 
contribution or payment would be reported to Federal authorities? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Did any convei-sation take place between Mr. Semer and 
either you or anyone at AMPI in connection with reporting such a 
contribution ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No one talked to me about it. I suspect Mr. Semer 
talked to Parr and Nelson. 

Mr. Weitz. AVere you familiar at the time with the Corrupt Practices 
Act then in effect? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And were you aware that the Corrupt Practices Act 
prohibited a contribution to any one political candidate in excess of 
$5,000? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I wasn't aware of that. 

Mr. Weitz. But you were familiar with the Corrupt Practices Act? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I knew there was a Corrupt Practices Act. 

Mr. Weitz. Did anyone at the time, in 1969, speak to you in terms 
of repoiting the contribution ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Someone spoke to me about the fact Mr. Kalmbach 
didn't want that reported. 



6389 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know who told you that ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Probably Mr. Seiner. 

Mr. Weitz. Was this either before or essentially at the tune the con- 
tribution was made that you found out about this information? 

:\[r. Jacobsen. It was essentially at thjc time the contribution was 
made. 

Mr. Weffz. And to your knowledoe was anyone at AMPI informed 
of the fact that Mr. Kalmbach did not want the contribution reported ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, 1 am sure they were. 

Mr. Weffz. Can you tell us how the $100,000 in cash was obtained 
and delivered? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

INIr. Lilly withdrew from the bank $100,000 in cash from TAPE, and 
took it to 'Dallas where he met ]\Ir. Semer. lie gave Mr. Seiner the 
$100,000 in Dallas and Mr. Seiner delivered it to Mr. Kalmbach in 
Newport. Beach. 

Mr. Weffz. Mf. Lilly was an employee of AMPI at the time? 

]\Ir. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. WEFrz. Did you know Mr. Lilly ? 

INIr. Jacobsen. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weffz. Did you talk with him about the aFFangements foF oli- 
taining and delivering the cash ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I may have, I don't recall. 

Mr. Weffz. What bank did TAPE keep its account in ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. It kept one of its acounts at the Citizens National 
Bank, whei'e I was chaiFinan of the boai'd. 

jNIf. Weitz. And that was the account fFom which the $100,000 was 
withdFawn ? 

Mf. Jacobsen. That is coFrect. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know who authoiized the withdFawal of the 
$100,000? 

Mf. Jacobsen. Mf. Isham nnist have authoFized it. 

Mf. Weffz. Do you knoAv whethcF Mf. Isham communicated that 
fact to any employee of the bank ? 

Mr, Jacobsen. No, I don't. I assume he did, because he was the only 
one authorized to withdi'aw money f Fom that account. 

Mf. Weitz. Did you evcF discuss with ]\If. Isham his authoFization, 
or ask him to make an authorization to withdraw the $100,000 from 
the TAPE account? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't recall doing that. 

Mf. Weitz. Did you evei' discuss with Mf. StetleF, the president of 
the bank at that time, preparations for this transaction ? 

]\Ir. Jacobsen. I guess I did. 

Mr. Weitz. You guess you did. Do you Fccall doing so? 

Mf. Jacobsen. No, I don't Fecall. 

Mr. Weffz. Do you i-ecall telling Mf. StetleF that $100,000 would be 
withdFawn shoi-tly on the instFuctions of Mf. Isham ? 

Mf. Jacobsen. I may have done that. I don't have any independent 
Fecollection of it. 

Mf. Weitz. Who would have had to authoFize, at that time in the 
bank, the withdi-awal of $100,000 in cash ? 

Mf. Jacobsen. Mf. StetleF. 



6390 

Mr. Weitz. And you don't know whctlier Mr. Stetler talked to 
Mr. Ishani who had authority over that account? 

Mr. Jacohsen. I assume he did. I don't know. 

ISIr. AVeitz. And you don't recall talking- with either Mr. Isham 
or :Mr. Stetler about "it? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, sir; 1 don't. 

Mr. Dash. I think you said you ""uessed you did it. On what basis 
would you make your ^iiess? Would that be a routine })roceduie for 
you to do that when such a lai'<j:e amount of money was being 
withdrawn ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, it wouldn't be routine. lint siiice it was AMPI 
involved and TAPE, I j\ist assumed that I probably talked to him 
about it. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall giving him instructions to obtain the 
$100,000 in bills from various tellei's in such a way that tlu\v would 
be of different serial numbeis and different ages and therefore more 
difficult to ti'ace ? 

jNIr. Jacobsex. No, I don't recall that at all. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss in any way the possibility of obtain- 
ing the money over a period of time, several days, so as to minimize 
the possibility tluit the withdrawal would be noticed? 

]\rr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Are you fairly certain that you didn't have such con- 
versations with Mr. Stetler? 

Mr. McNelis. His answer was, "I don't recall that." 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't recall talking to him about that at all. 

Mr. Weitz. So you are not certain whether or not you did have 
such conversations? 

Mr. McNelis. His answer again is, he doesn't recall it. 

Mr. Jacobsex. I just don't know. I don't think I talked to him 
at all about that. 

Mr. Weitz. And therefore you cainiot say that you did not? 

Mr. Jacobsex. And, therefore, I cannot say that. 

Mr. INIcNelis. And conversely, can you say that you did ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. DoRSEX. Mr. Jacobsen, to youi" best recollection have you 
ever had conversations with Mr. Stetlei- concerning obtaining a large 
sum of money at different times from different tellers in order to 
avoid tracing the source of cash funds? 

Mr, Jacobsex, No ; I don't recall that. 

Mr. DoKSEX. So if this conversation with Mr. Stetler had oc- 
curred in connection with the $100,000 withdrawal, it would have 
been in all likelihood the only time it would have occuned? 

IVIr. Jacobsex. I would think so. 

Mr. DoRSEX. And based upon the questions I have just asked 
you, can you say with any greater degree of assurance or specificity 
whether or not you believe that you had such a conversation witli 
Mr. Stetler? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't believe 1 ever had such a conversation 
with ]\rr. Stetler. 

INIr. Weitz. After the delivery of the money to Mr. Kalmbach 
by Mr. Semer did you become aware of any contacts thereafter in 
1969, for example, between representatives "of AMPI or employees 
of AMPI and persons in the administration ? 



6391 

Mr. Jacobsen. The only thing 1 became aware of was a meeting 
witli llariy Dent. And 1 don't know wlien that took phice. 

Mr. Weitz. Do yon know who attended that meeting? 

]\lr. Jacobsex. Mr. Semer, Mr. l*arr, and Mr. Nelson, I believe. 

Mv. AVEirz. Dill you know how soon after the payment that that 
meeting took place ? 

Mr. flACor.sKX. No, 1 don't. 

Mi-. Wkviz. Do you know of any effort by AMPI to have the 
President attend some meeting of the dairy people in 1069 and speak 
at some meeting of the dairy people in 1909 ? 

]Mr. fLvcoBSEx. I recall that they tried to get him to sj^eak at their 
annual convention, but I didn't know that was in 19G9. 

Mr. McNelis. As a point of fact for the witness, was the speech 
in 19G9 ^ 

Mr. flAcoBSEX. I don't know. 

Mr. McNelis. Can we give him a definitive date on that and work 
from there i 

Mr. Weitz. AVhicli speech? 

Mr. McNelis. The one he just testified to. 

Mr. Weitz. I think there were several. Do you recall at which 
annual convention of the AMPI the President spoke ^ 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know of anything that — anything else that 
occurred in 1969 as a result, or following, in connection with the 
administration at AMPI following delivery of the money to Mr. 
Kalmbach ? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. No, I don't, 

Mr. Weitz. Did there come a time in 1969 when the question of 
either reporting the contribution or reimbursing TAPE arose? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Well, in December — now this is hearsay, I don't 
know this, nobody told me this — but in December when TAPE was 
about to have to rei)ort, AMPI put up $100,000 of deposit, and 
TAPE borrowed $100,000 from the Citizens' National Bank, based 
on the security of that $100,000 certificate of deposit. 

^Ir. Weitz. You say you have no knowledge of this personally, 
it is hearsa}'? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. Well, hearsay that this had to do with reporting. 

]Mr. AVeitz. What about hearsay in terms of the actual transaction? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I know the transaction took place. 

Mr. Weitz. And how did you know of that fact ? 

Mr. Jacobsex^. Because we checked the bank's records after we were 
hero the last time. 

Mr. Weitz. Prior to that time you did not recall the transaction? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I didn't. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk to Mr. Lilly about the transaction ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't recall. 

Mr. Weitz. It was Mr. Lilly who borrowed the $100,000 from the 
bank ? 

Mr, Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Why was Mr. Lilly chosen to do so? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. And what was he to do with $100,000 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Put it in the TAPE account. 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 2 



6392 

Mr. Weitz. And therefore by the end of tlie year TAPE would not 
report any contribution to the President? 

Mr. Jacorsen. Tliat was my understanding of wlty lie did it. 

Mr. Weitz. I will mark as exhibit 2, a loan application in the name 
of Bob A. Lilly, dated December 17, lOBD, in the amount of $100,000 
payable in 60 days, tlio loaning officer signing it having tlie name of 
Marvin N. Stetlcr. Have you ever seen this loan application ? 

Ml*. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Tliat is the loan application representing tlie loan to 
Mr. Lilly, the transaction 3-ou just described ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. AVeitz. And are those your initials at the bottom? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

[The document refori-ed to was marked .Tacol)sen exliibit No. 2.^] 

Mr, Weitz. Whose ijiitials are the other two sets of initials? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I think the other two people are Morgan E. Pierce 
and Walter Donald Ivoberts. 

Mr. Weitz. How did you come to initial the loan application? 

JVfr. Jacobsen. I was on the loan committee, ajid it took three mem- 
bers of the five-member committee — a loan of that size had to be 
approved by the loan committee. 

Mr. Weitz. Did j'ou talk to the other two gentlemen about the loan 
applicatioji and the transaction ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. They were all in the ineeting together. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you explain what the tiansaction concerned ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I thiidc ]Mr. Stetler did. 

Mr. Weitz. Can you tell us what was said at that meeting ? 
, Mr. Jacobsex. No, I can't. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember what Mr. Stetler explained to the 
gentlemen ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. It has been too long ago. 

I think — I hate to start out and answer a question 'T think," but I 
think all he did was explain that it was a $100,000 loan with a $100,000 
CD as security. 

Mr. Weitz. And the $100,000 CD was whose CD? 

Mr. Jacobsex. AMPI. 

Mr. Weitz. Is this a security agreement — let me mark it as exhibit '^ 
and ask you whether you have ever seen this security agreement in the 
name of Bob A. Lilly for $100.000 '? 

[The document referi'cd to was marked Jacobsen exhibit No. ;>.-] 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I have never seen that before. 

Let me say — I saw that just the other day when we went to check the 
record out of the bank. 

Mr. Weitz. You don't recall sceiiig it before that time? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I didn't see it. 

Mr. Dasit. Is that a secured agreement in support of the loan? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Dash. Wouldn't you have had to have seen it as a member of the 
loan committee '? 

INIr. Jacobsex. Not if the president said he had it, \h\ Dash. If the 
president said he had a secured agreement on the $100,000 CD, I would 
accept his word. 

1 See p. 6481. 

2 Previously printed as Lilly exhibit No. 4 in Book 14, p. 5995. 



6393 

Mr. AVeitz. Do you know wliethei- Mr. Lilly, who is listed here as the 
assistant general manafi:er, had the authority to pledfre a $100,000 CD 
of Milk Producers, Inc., for this loan 'i 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I don't know. 

Mr. WErrz. Did Mr. Stetler tell the conmiittee that he did? 

Mr. Jacobsex. 1 don't know. 

Mr. ]McNelis. Is it that you don't know or you don't recall? 

Mr. Jacobsex^. I don't recall. 

Mr. Dash. A loan by Mr. Lilly — who was, I take it an employee of 
AMPI — of that amount of money, would that be an unusual trans- 
action, $100,000 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex\ I suppose so. But not really, when it was secured by 
$100,000 CD. 

Mr. Dash. Put as a member of the loan committee, and participating 
in that loan, this would not be one of the ordinary transactions that 
you had to look at, is that true? 

Mr. Jacobsex. It is hard for me, Mr. Dash, to disassociate myself 
with the fact that 1 knew about the transaction. But the other two 
members of the loan committee didn't know about it. 

Mr. Dash. I was trying to find out what you did know about the 
transaction and why it was l>eing made. 

What is your best recollection of what you did know about the trans- 
action and why it was being made. 

Mr. Jacobsex^. ]\Iy best recollection is that Nelson or somebody had 
told me tliat they needed to get the $100,000 back into TAPE, because 
it was reporting time. That is my best recollection, Mr, Dash. 

Mr. AYeitz. And because Mr. Kalmbach didn't want the contribution 
reported ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. lie didn't want the contribution reported. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether anyone ever discussed the pos- 
sibility of getting the money back from Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

jNIr, WErrz. Do you know what he did with the money ? 

JMr. McNeeis. Excuse me. A discussion with respect to getting the 
money back from Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Jacobsex, Yes, 

Mv. McNelis. Did you understand the question? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes; I lieard the question. And I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz, Do you know for what purpose he applied the money? 

Mr, Jacobsex, No, I don't, 

JMr. Weitz. What did you understand to be the way in which Mr. 
Lilly, an employee of the company, would recoup the $100,000 to pay 
the loan ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. I didn't have any way of knowing that. 

Mr. AYeitz. As a member of the loan committee, wasn't that a rele- 
vant consideration as to whether or not Mr. Lilly should be extended 
the loan? 

JMr. Jacobsex. Not when you have a CD behind it, you can always 
call on the CD and get that collected. 

Mr. Weitz. And the CD was an MPI CD or an AMPI CD? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And therefore if Mr. Lilly defaulted, the A3IPI cer- 
tificate would be forfeited ? 



6394 

Mr, Jacobsen, Yes, sir. 

i\Ir. Wkitz. And therefore the $100,000 contribution to Mr. Kcahn- 
bach would be refunded to TAPE by way of forfeiture of $100,000 
from AMPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. You knew that botli INIPI and AMPI were incorporated 
and were corporations, didn't you ? 

Mr. Jacobken. Yes, I guess so ; sure. 

^Ir. Weitz. And therefore if the C^I) was forfeited and the $100,000 
of AMPI or MPI reimbursed TAPE for the contribution, it would be 
a corporate fiuul that would be used in efl'ect to subsidize the contribu- 
tion to Mr. Kalmbach and to the President ? 

jNIr. Jacobsen. I never thouglit of that, but that is true. 

Mr. WErrz. Was there any other method other than the forfeiture of 
the CI) tliat was used, discussed, or that you knew of to repay — to help 
Mr. Lilly repay the $100,000 on this loan '^ 

My. JACoiiSKN. No, sir. 

Mr. WErrz. Do you know how mucli Mr. Lilly's salary was at that 
time, npproximately? ;, 

Mr, Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. WErrz. Was he making at least $100,000 a year to your knowl- 
edge ? 

^Ir. Jacobsen, I don't know. 

Mr. WErrz. Did there come a time when, in fact, INIr. Lilly asked you 
and ]Mr. Long, your partner, to give liii]i some money to help repay the 
loan '( 

]Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, 

]Mr, Weitz. When did that take place? 

Mv. Jacobsen, That took place in December of 1969. 

Mr, Weitz. Was it December IT, IDO^ ? 

jNIr. Jacobsen, Yes, sir, 

Mr, Weitz, And wasii't that also the day on which the loan was 
made to Mr. Lilly ? 

Mr, Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Wasn't it. in fact, contemporaneous with the making of 
the loa]i to Mr. Lilly that he asked you for the moiiey ? 

Mr. Jacobsen, Yes. 

Mr, Wkitz, And isn't it a fact that at the tinie of the loan you knew 
that lie would be asking both you ami ]\[r. Long and others who were 
retained by AINIPI to assist him in repaying the loan? 

iMr, Jacobsen, I knew he asked us, Mr. Weitz 

Mr. ]\IcNelis. When you say "us," who are you talking about? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Long and myself. I knew he asked Long and myself 
for some money to help repay the loan. I didn't know what else he was 
going to do. 

]Mr, Weitz, You did not know or did not overhear or understand 
that he or others were to ask other consultants and attorneys for AMPI 
to i^ay him some money to help him repay the loan ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I didn't know that.' 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever hear that discussed at the time? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

iMr. Weitz. IIow nmch money did he ask you for, you and Mr. 
Long? 



6395 

Mr. Jacobsen. He asked us for $5,000. 

Jklr. Weitz. The loan was for $100,000. Where was he to get the 
ackliti(mal$V)5,0()0? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Mr. Weitz, I doivt know. 

Mv. Weitz. And Mr. Nelson or :Mr. Parr Qr Mr. Lilly never told you 
or indicated how they were to help him repay the rest of the loan? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Weeiz. Why did you give him the $5,000 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Because he asked for it. 

Mr. AVeitz. Are these the checks — exhibit 7* to the Lilly executive 
session — are these copies of the checks which you and Mr. Long made 
out and cashed in order to give him the $5,000 ? 

]Nrr. Jacobsex. AVe just gave him the checks; we gave the checks to 
Boh Lilly. 

Mr. Weitz. At the bank? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Who gave them the checks ? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. Mr. Long. 

]Mr. Weitz. So you gave your check to Mr. Long, and he gave it to 
Mr. Lilly ? 

Afr. Jacobsex'^. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. At the bank? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. I don't laiow. 

]Mr. ]McXelis. ]Mr. Weitz, since we are talking about $5,000, can we 
have it understood for the record that the total of the two checks was 
$5,000, if 1 understand it correctly ? 

Mr. Weitz. That is correct. Lilly exhibit 7 consists of copies of two 
checks, one in the amount of $2,0()0 to Mr. Long and endorsed by Mr. 
I^ng and Bob Lilly, and one in the amount of $3,000 to ]\Ir. Jacobsen 
on tlieir firm accounts endorsed by Mr. Jacobsen and INlr. Lilly, both 
dated December 17, 1969. 

Did Mr. Lilly ever discuss with you the possibility of your firm bill- 
ing AMPI for these payments ? 

]Mr. Jacobsex'. lie may have. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't know. He may have talked to INIr. Long about 
that. 

Mr. Weitz. Didn't in fact you understand that you were to be re- 
paid by AMPI, and tha't was the reason you agreed to pay him the 
money ? 

jVIr. Jacobsex'. No. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Why did you pay him the money ? 

INIr. Jacobsex'. Because they were a good client, and it was worth the 
good business relations. 

Mr. Weitz. So you understand Mr. Lilly in this transaction was 
acting on behalf of the client ? 

]Mr. Jacobsex'. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you check with IVIr. Nelson about this before you 
gave him the $5,000? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. No. 

i\Ir. Weitz. How did you know that INIr. Lilly wasn't going to ab- 
scond and leave A]MPI to pay the $100,000 ? 



*See Book 14, p. 6002. 



6396 

Mr. Jacobsen. Becaiise I just didn't think he would. 

Mr. "Wkitz. And you never discussed it witli Mr. Nelson ? 

Mr. Jacohsen. I don't believe so. 

Mr. Weitz. You say they may have discussed with you — Mr. Lilly 
may have discussed with you the possibility of — witli you or Mr. 
Long — the possibilty of recouping the money from A^lPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, he may have. 

Mr. WErrz. Did lie also discuss, with either you or ]Mr. Long, the 
possibility of charging AIMPI for excess taxes incurred as a result of 
payments from jNIPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. lie may liave, T don't know. He didn't talk to me 
about it. 

Mr. ]\foNELis. T get a little confused wlien you say "we may have," 
the way the question is pOvSed, since we are talldng aliout a loan to Mr. 
Lilly. Can you answer with respect to yourself? It would help the 
record. 

Mr. Jacobsex. Ho didn't talk to me about it; he talked to Mr. Long, 
if he did any talkiiig about it. 

Mr. Weitz, Did Mr. Long tell you al)out any such con\ ersation or 
any such arrangements? 

Mr. Jacobsex. T don't recall ; he may liave, 

INIr, AVeitz. You lia\e ]io greater recollection, you can't be any more 
specific other than that he may have done so ? 

Mr. Jacobsex\ No, I i-eally can't, ]\Ir. Weitz, I am sorry: because 
Mr. Lilly did most of his dealings with Mr. Long. 

Mr. Dash. This was a contemporaneous pa^^ment. It was not a loan; 
it was a payment to INIr. Lilly, totaling $5,000. Other than, you say, the 
relatiojiship of a good client, was there any reason for you to give 
Mr, Lilly the $5,000? 

Mr. Jacobsex", Mr. Lilly was svnonvmnus witli AMPI tons. 

Mr. Dash. So you tliouglit you wer^- giving A^IPI $5,000? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes. 

INIr. Dash, And it was contemporaneous to the loan. So was it your 
understanding at the time this happened that at the time $100,000 was 
])eing borrowed by Mi'. Lilly with a security from AMPI, and you are 
giving Mr. Lilly $5,000, you understood tliat to be really part of one 
transaction? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't know if I understood it that wav or not, ."Mr. 
Dash. 

Mr. Dash. Mr. Lilly was just getting $100,000 from the bank on a 
loan, and on that same da}' you were giving him $5,000 yourself? 

Mr, Jacobsex. Correct. 

Mr, Dash, What Avas vour understandinr;' of why vou were giving 
Mr, Lilly $5,000? 

Mr. Jacobsex. To repay on tlie loan. 

Mr. Dash, To repay on the loan. So, it was really part of one 
transaction? 

Mv. Jacobsex. Well 

Mr. Weitz. I would like to show you an invoice dated December 17, 
1969, to, "Attention Mr. Bob Lilly,''' in the amount of $10,000 for spe- 
cific litigation. And there is marked on it, "Paid 12-17-69," that very 
day. 

Is this a copy of an invoice that your firm submitted ? 



6397 

Mr. ]McXelis. Are we o;oinii- to make that, an exliibit with the next 
number i 

Mr. Weitz. Yes, exhibit 4. 

[The document referred to was marked Jacobsen exhibit No. 4.^] 

Mv. Jacoi5si;x. Yes, that is a copy. 

A[r. A^'KITZ. Who prepared the invoice? 

]Mr. Jacobskx. ^Fi-. Lonir ]>rei)ared this billing. 

Mr. AVkit/,. Do you attach any significance to the fact that that is on 
the very same day, and it is iiulicated as being paid on the same day, as 
the transaction involving ]Mr. Lilly ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. You would have to ask Mr. Long that, JSIr. Weitz. 

^Ir. ]McNelis. In all fairness, with respect to the qu(>stion I do be- 
lieve that that exhibit reflects that it is for a specific account with the 
firm for what is done, does it not ? 

]Mr. Weitz. That is what it indicates. I am asking Mr, Jacobsen the 
significance of this having been made and paid on the same day as the 
transaction. 

Mr. elAcoBSEX. You will just have to ask Mr. Ijong that. I don't 
know. 

]\rr. AVeitz. Was it your experience that bills to AMPI were paid on 
the same day that they received them? 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. And that, in fact, you dated the invoice? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, sir. That is most unusual. 

Mr. Weitz. Your law firm was located in Austin? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And AMPI was located in San Antonio ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you normally mail your bills to them ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And they normally mailed their checks to you? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, I show you a copy, which I will mark as exhibit 5, 
which you have submitted to us, of a deposit slip dated December 17, 
1969, for Jacobsen and Long, depositing $10,000 in your account. Is 
that a deposit slip indicating a deposit of the money from AMPI? 

[Tlie document referred to was marked Jacobsen exhibit No. 5.-] 

^Ir. Jacobsex^. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And that indicates to you, therefore, that the $10,000 
paid to you on December 17 for a December 17 invoice was received and 
deposited by you also on December 17 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex\ That is what those papers indicate. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall any circumstances in connection Avith this 
billing or payment or the deposits? 

ISIr. Jacobsex'. No, I don't. It is Mr. Long's billing. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Long ever tell you anything about it? 

Mr, Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. And you did not know that on the same day that you 
would pay Mr. Lilly $5,000, you or Mr. Long, that you would recoup 
the money from AMPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I didn't. 



1 See p. 6482. 
= See p. 6483. 



6398 

Mr. McNelis. That question again assumes, Mv. AVeitz, that they 
recouped llic money. That is a fact that I don't think you can assume 
in your question. There is no sitrjation here yet that I have lieard that 
there was an understanding that they were going to recoup the money 
in the sense that you are tallcing about — the $5,000. I just don't see tlie 
fairness of a question the way it was put. There was no understanding 
of recoupment, according to this witness. 

Mr. Weitz. And that is what the witness answered. 

Do you luive any itlea how mucli work was represented by this in- 
voice for tliis partieuhu- case? 

Mr. Jacorsex. No, I don.'t. Tluit was 'Sir. Long's case. 

Mr. AVeitz. I want to show you, as part of exhibit ' oi' the Till.y 
executive session, an invoice of Jacobsen and Long dated January G, 
1970, to Associated Milk Producers, "Attention Mi-. Lilly,"' for 'the 
same case for $10,000. ■ ' - 

Is this such an in\'oice '^ 

Mr, Jacohsex. Yes. 

Mr. WErrz. Do^/ou kjiow what work that represented ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, Init Mr. Txnig, I know, did ;i lot of work on that 
case. It was an antitrust suit for some million or so dollars. And i\Ir. 
Long v.as lead counsel and did a lot of work on the case. Ihit I don't 
know s];>ecifically what tliat represented. 

Mr. Weitz. And do you, know whv there were two invoices, each in 
the amount of $10,000.' billed to AM" LI in ilw .-|'ac(> of liO days on the 
same casei^ 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Attached to tlie Lilly exhibit \) also is a note indicat- 
ing- — it reads: ''Lob IsJuiiu ; I'his is a s))ecial billing from Joe Long."' 

I)o you know anything conrerniiig the- bac-kgi'oimd of ( hal billing^ 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. WEurz. Did you normally bill foi' work sepai'alely from your 
monthly retainer' bills 'f 

Mr. Jacobsex. Mr. W'eitz, I don't knox.v whav Mi'. Long tlid. I gener- 
ally billed on the I'etainoi- bills. Jbir Mr. Long ovldiniily billed 
sejoarately. 

Mr. Weitz. 1 would like to go through ,i number of check's, copies of 
checks, which you ]ii'o\-ided to us, and ask you whether you I'ecall any- 
thing in connect ion with these checks. 

Th.e iirst one. whicli I v\'ill mark as exhiliit (k is a check dated Jann- 
ary S. l'.)TO. in the amount of $l.()()(i to lak'e Jacobsen — and on the 
back it is endorsed '%)ake Jacobsen" and "rloe IL Long." And the 
number of the check is 1485. 

[The document referred to was marked Jacobsen exhibit No. 6.-] 

Do you recall that check :' And. if so. do you recall anything in con- 
nection with it? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, sir. I don't recall the check or anything in con- 
nection with it. 

Mr. Weitz. Does that indicate to you that the check was caslied as 
opposed to deposited i 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, not necessarily. 

It might have been deposited to one of Mr. Long's accounts. 



1 See P.oolv 14, p.Tge 0005. 
- See I). «484. 



6399 

Mr. Wkitz. Did you nonnany, when yon wore depositing; a check, 
indicate "for deposit" on the back of the check '. 

Mr. Jacousen. Sometinios. 

Mr. MrXKr.is. I raii't make that out. 

Mr. .Iacobsex. 1 can't eitlier. 

Afr. Dash. AVhat was that ^ 

JVfr. "Wnrrz. All of those checks are Jacol)Scn and Long account 
checks. 

Mr. Dash. And the amount ■ 

Mr. AVErrz.^l, <)»)(). 

Another choclc on Januaiy 8, No. 1186, exhibit No. 7, to Mr. Long in 
the amount of $1.( '<>() with his endoi'soment on tlio back. 

[The document referred to was marked Jacobsen exhibit No. 7.^] 

Mr. "WErrz. Do you recall anythiuix in connection with that check? 

Mr. .Tacohsex. No. sir; 1 don't. 

Mr. Weitz. a third chock, exhibit No. 8, to Mr. Jacobsen on your 
account, Januaiy -lO, 11)70, for $2,500. And thore is no endorsement on 
the baok. 

[The document referred to was marked Jacobsen exhibit No. 8.^] 

]Mr. Weitz. Do you recall anything in connection w'ith that check? 

Mr. Jacobsen. L sure don't. 

Mr. Weitz. When there is no endorsement, did you normally take 
such a check over to tlie bank and cash it when there is no endorse- 
ment on the back^ 

Mr. Jacobsex. Oh, no. I believe I would have had to endorse it 
on the back if it were cashed. The check is to me from Mrs. Buckley. 

Mr. AVeitz. Sho w^as your secretary? 

Mr. Jacobsex. \es. 

And I would have had to endorse it. This check must have been 
deposited. 

Mr. Wrrrz. \i you took it over to :i bank. t(~) a teller who knew you, 
would they cash the chock without your endorsement^ 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Oh, I doubt it. 

Mr. Weitz. AVhere would the chock have been deposited. 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't know — Citizens' National, probably. 

Mr. AVeitz. AVas that your personal account? 

Air. Jacobsex^ 1 had several accounts there, as you know. 

Air. AVeitz. I have two checks dated February 2, 1970, which I 
will mark as exhibits 9 and 10; chock No. 15-')7 is exhibit 9 for $3,000 
to you, with your endorsement on the back; and check No. 1538 for 
$2,000 to Air. Long, which is exhibit 10, with his endorsement on the 
back. 

[The documents referred to were marked Jacobsen exhibits Nos. 9 
and 10.=] 

Air. AVeitz. Ha\e you ever seen those two checks? 

Air. Jacobsex'. T don't recall; no. 

Air. AVeitz. Did Air. Lilly ever 

Mr. Dash. Did you say one of the checks has your signature on 
the back? 

Mr. AVeitz. Yes — one is Air. Jacobsen and his endorsement, and 
one is Air. Lonir and his endorsement. 



1 See p. 6484. 

2 See |). 6485. 



6400 

Mr. Dash. Yoii must have at one time seen tlie check 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, I saw it. 

Mr. Dash. Or you wouldn't have signed it 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. McNi:lis. That is your signature? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall in eitlier late January or early February 
Mr. Lilly coming to eitlier you or Mr. Long and requesting an addi- 
tional $5,000 to help liim repay tlie loan, or for any other purpose? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No; 1 don't recall it. 

jNIr. Weitz. Late Jamiary oi- early February 1970? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No; I don't locall it. 

He did come one othei- time, but I forget wlien that was. 

Mr. WErrz. We will get to that sliortly. 

Exhibit No. 11 is check No. 1569, your account, to you, Jake 
Jacobsen, dated February 23, 1970, in the amount of $20,000. And 
that, too, has no endorsement. 

Have you ever seen this check ? 

[The document refei-red to Avas marked Jacobsen exhibit No. 11.^] 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't recall liaving seen the check. It was evi- 
dently with a withdraAval from the firm, and it went into one of 
my accounts. 

Mr. WErrz. Exhibit No. 12, I will mark for identification check 
No. 1577 to you on March 2, 1970, in the amount of $4,000. And that 
also has no endorsement. 

Have you ever seen that checlv, do you recall? 

[The document referred to was marked Jacobsen exhibit No. 12."] 

Mr. Jacobsen. I doii't recall having seen the check. 

Mr. Weitz. But tliat, too, you assume was deposited in your 
account ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And you don't recall cashing that check? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Oh, no. 

Mr. Weitz. I want to show you two checks, exhibit No. 8 ^ to the 
Lilly executive session. 

Exhibit 8 consists of check No. 1763, June 12, 1970, to Jake Jacob- 
sen, in the amount of $2,875, and on the back it is endorsed ''Jake 
Jacobsen, pay to order First Natioiial Bank. Bob A. Lillv." and check 
No. 1764 dated June 12. 1970, to .Toe R. Lojig, in the amount of $2,125. 
And that is endorsed ".Toe K. Long, for deposit oidy, pay * * * First 
National Bank, Bob A. Lilly." 

Have you ever seen, or do you lecall, those two check in particular? 

Mr. Jacobsen. That is my signature on the back of it. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall tlie circumstances under which those 
checks were made? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. j\Ir. Lilly asked us for another $5,000, and 
we gave it to him. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember ^^■]len he asked for the $5,000 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. It must have been around June 12. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he tell you what he wanted the $5,000 for? 

Mr. Jacobsen. To repay on the loan. 



iSeep. 6485. 

2 See p. 6486. 

3 See Book 14. p.-ige 6003. 



6401 

Mr. Weitz. If T recall, tlio loan was a GOnlay loan made on Decem- 
ber 17, 19G9, and June of 11)70 was well beyoild the GO-day period. 

Did he explain to you what had happened in the interim? 

Mr. jAConsF.N. Xd; Y don't think ho explained it, but I assume the 
loan had )>een renewed. 

Mr. Wkitz. Do you know how ituK^i was still owing on the loan? 

Mr. jAConsKN. No, I dichrt know. 

Mr. "Wfatz. Did he tell you, or did you know whether he had paid 
or obtained any dher funds toward the loan other than the first 
$5,000 from you and jSlr. [^(mg? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, he didn't say. 

IMr. Dash. To renew tlie loan — "would the loan committee have to 
do that? 

ISIr. Jacobsen. Xo, the j)resident of the bank' could renew the loan. 

Mr. WrJTZ. Do you know whether Mr. Lilly or Mr. Nelson or anyone 
else from AMPI discussed with you or Mr. Long at that time the 
arrangement for recouping this $5,000 from AMPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you bill AMPI to cover thoii- $5,000 payment? 

Mr. J.'.coBSEX. No, not that I know of. 

Mr. "Weitz. Did IMr. Long do so ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't think so. 

Ml'. Weffz. Did you ever discuss tlie matter with Mr. Long at that 
time or before or after ? 

Mr, Jacobsex. No, sir. 

Mr. "NA'eitz. I would like to show you Lilly exhibit 10,^ an invoice 
dated April 21, 1070, from Jacobson and Long to Mr. Lilly, which is 
a cover letter to an invoice in the amount of $10,000 of the same date — 
and the letter reads : 

Dear Bon : Enclosed is the bill with regard to Associated Milk Producers versus 
Texas Agricultural Animal Health Commission, whicli you requested. 

Have you ever seen that invoice ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weftz. Is that an invoice of your firm ? 

Mr. Jacobsex^. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you have any idea in what connection Mr. Lilly re- 
quested that that invoice be submitted to AMPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsex^. Probably after Mr. Long got through doing the 
work. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that the termination of that matter? 

Mr. Jacobsex^ Evidently. 

Mr. Weitz. You don't recall ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't know. You will have to ask Mr. Long. 

Mr. Weitz. I would like to mark for identdication exhibit 13, which 
is a check No. 1811, on Jacobsen and Long firm account, dated July 14, 
1970, to Jake Jacobsen, in the amount of $10,000, with no endorsement 
on the back. 

Is that a check to you ? 

[The document referred to was marked Jacobsen exhibit No. 13.-] 



1 See Book 14, page 6007. 
= See p. 0486. 



6402 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, tliat is a check to mo. That is a check to me, and 
I can t understand liow f liese "no endorsemonts" got in tliis tiling at all. 
She must have been dc])ositing to the account without endorsing it. 

Mr. Weitz. Would those all have been deposited at the same time? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Not necessarily, they Avould have been deposited in 
one of my accounts at Citizens' ]S;i(ional Bajik. 

Mr. Dash. Does the back of the clieck show the deposit stamp ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes— 1 can't icad that— it has the teller's number on 
it. 

[Off the record.] 

Mr. WErrz. Let me go back for a minute and ask you — the checks 
dated December 17, 19G9. which w(> first identified, were in the amounts 
of $3,000 to you and $i^.,(H)0 to Mr. Long. AVhy were the two checks in 
different amounts? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Becaus^e it was our percentage of ownershi]:) in the 
firm. 

Mr. Weitz. GO percent and 40 percent? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And the i wo checks dated June 12, 1070, which you ideii- 
tified in the amounts of $2,875 a}id $2,125 -what was the reason for 
that split? 

Mr. Jacobsen. That was our jji'icentago of the firm at the time. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it 55 jicicent, 4 5 ]jercent ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I think so. I doj)!^ know what that comes from. 

Mr. Weitz. Did there come a tiDie whoi Mr. Lilly, aftei- these two 
occasions that you have ijidicated. asked you or Mr. Loiig for additional 
moneys ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, he didn't aslv me for any additional money. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ask Mr. l»)ig for additional moneys? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't know\ 

Mr. Weitz. Let me juark as exhibits 14 and 15 — check No. 1836, 
which is exhibit 14, July 24, li>70. to Jake Jacobsen, in the amount of 
$5,750; and on the same date, exliibit 15, check No. 1835 in the amount 
of $4,250 to Joe R.Long, 

[The documents referied to >ve)e marked Jacobsen exhibits Nos. 
14 and 15.*] 

Mr. Weitz. Your check is endorsed witli your signature, it appears, 
and Mr. Long's with his. 

First of all, exhibit 14 — is that your signature on the back? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And exhiint No. 15— either of the checks — do you i-ccall 
ever seeing them, other than the fact that your endoisement is on one? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Otliei' than the fact that my endorseinent is on them ; 
no, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you at) ach anytliijig sig)iificant to the fact that those 
two checks are in relatio)i of 55 iHMcent and 45 percent, one to the other ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. Wc probably drew that much out of the firm. 

Mr. Weitz. And you don't attacl) any significance to that in relation 
to any transaction invoh ijig Mi-. Lilly ? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. No. 



*Seepp. 6486 and 6487. 



6403 

jNIr. Wphtz. I A\ ould like to show )ou Lilly exhibit 11 *, an invoice 
from Jacobson and Long to the Associated Milk Producers, dated 
July IG, 1970, in the amount of $22,000, broken down on three dif- 
ferent matt<>rs. 

Orio, for $10,000 for Associated Milk Producers v. I'exas Anhmil 
Health Commission, which was the matter wliich was the subject of 
the April billing, and two other matters. 

Is this an invoice of your iiriu— a copy of an invoice from your 
firm? 

JSIr. Jacobskn. Ves. 

Ml". WErrz. Do you recall the ciicumstances or the reason for that 
billing f 

Mr. Jacobsen. Xo. 

This is one of Mr. Thong's billings. 

Mr. Wkitz. Anil that portion of that bill did not represent payment 
to your Hrni to co\ ( i- the [)ayinent of $10,000 iti July or August of 1970 
to iMr. Lilly? 

]\Ir. J.vcoBSEX. .V('tthat I know of. 

]Mr. "Wkitz. Ar. 1 to your knowledge neither you nor IVIr. Long made 
any additional pitynients to Mr. Lilly or at the direction of Mr. Lilly 
or anyone at A^M PI for political purposes following the payment in 
June 1070? 

ISlr. Jacobskn'. To my best knowledge, that is correct. 

^Ir. Wr.rrz. Did you evoi- make a contribution as a campaign contri- 
bution out of your own funds to the Nixon campaign? 

]Mr. ,Tacobsex. No. 

Mr. 'WvA'xz. "What do the two payments which you made to Mr. Lilly 
rep?"csent? 

Mr. Jacobsex. l\e])ayments of a loan. 

ISIr. AVeitz. And what was the purpose of tiio loan? 

INIr, ,L\('<j]4SEx. To reimburse ^WPE for the money that they had 
taken out of the baidv. 

Mr. Weitz. Didn't you in fact help Mr. Lilly refund TAPE and 
therefore pay for a contribution to Mr. Nixon ? 

jNIr. McXeeis. Mr. Weitz, if you were going to ask the question 
whether he made any contribution to INIr. Nixon out of his own funds, 
and thfji in a logical deduction from that to compel the answer that he 
did in etl'ect through a chain of events wind up making a contribution 
to Mr. Nixon, if tliit is what you arc driving at, I will let the witness 
explain how that happeiu^d. lint to put the question this way, did he 
make a contribution to Nixon out of his own fimds, to the Nixon cam- 
paign, his answer is no. Is that correct? 

Mr. Jacobsex. That is con-ect. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you make funds available to enable a contribution to 
be made or to be completed for the Piesident ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I made funds available to r(>pay a loan for Bob Lilly 
that went to replace money from TAPE that went to Mr. Kalmbach. 

Mr. Dash. And your only reasoii for doing that was your business 
relationship with him? 

Mr. Jacobsex\ Yes. 

Mr. I>ASii. So in a sense it was a ffift to him? 



♦ See Book 14, page 6010. 



6404 

Mv. Jacobsex. Yes. They were fiur business clients. 

]\Ir. Dash. Did you consider it as sort of a fee return — returning 
some of tlie fee ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, si r. 

Mr. Weitz. I would like tx) s]iow you Lilly exhil)it 12,^ an invoice 
dated August ;U, 1970. to AJNIPl fi-om your'finn for $-22,0()0— in the 
amount of $22,000, including an $.S,00(J charge foi- Associated Milk 
Producers v. Texas Agricultural . 1 nimal Health Commission Aho same 
subject matter of the July and A))iil billings that we have identified. 

Is this an invoice of your firm ;' 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, sii'. 

Mr. Weitz. And do you recall llic reason for the Ijilling, other than 
what is stated on the face of it '^ 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, sir. It is Mr, l^ong's billing. 

jNIr. WErrz. And do you know Avhether oi- not any of that money 
represented a repayment to your firm for jiioneys paid to Mr. Lilly or 
at liis direction for AIM PI ? 

INIr. Jacobsex. No, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whet her that ^\as the case? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I don't. 

Mr. Wehz. The check which 1 want to mai-k as e.\liibit Kl. No. 1920, 
dated September 9, 1970. to you. with apparently your endorsement on 
the back in the amount of $5,7,"i() - is that your signature on the back 
of the check ( 

[The document referred to >Aas marked Jacobsen exhibit No. IG.-] 

Sir. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. The records of x(n\r bank statements indicate another 
check on that day which was Jiol provided to us, in the amount of 
$4,250. 

Do you know of any ^\]c]\ othei' dieck ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you search your recoi'ds or those of the trustees 
in bankruptcy to find Ihe check tliat apixii-ently the witluliawal re- 
flected on your bank statement for ( hat month ? 

[Off the record.] 

Mr. Weitz. Finally, foi- the year 197o. ] will mark as exhibit 17, a 
check in the amount of ^'.'kOOO to Mr. Long, with check No. 1951. dated 
October 5, 1970. And in the record provided us tluMc was ]io cop^' of 
an endorsement on the back. 

[The document referred to was marked Jacobsen exhibit No. 17.-] 

Air. Weitz. Do you know amiliing in connection witli a copy of 
that check? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

The boy who made tlie copies told me tliat he just didn't <xvt the 
copies l)ack on this one. 

Do you want us to get if for yon ^ 

]Mr. Weitz. Please. 

Mr. McNelis. I don't know wlicther 1 left a note on yoiu- [)ile or 
not — tliere is no endor^;(■ment to ojic checlc. 

I'm sorrv; that is n\\ iiiistakc 

[Ofl' the record.] 



1 See Book 14, page 6012. 
= See p. 6487. 



6405 

Mr. Weitz. In connection with !he mattei- of import quotas for 
dairy products, tlid you have anything to di^ with AMPl"s eti'orts to 
reduce or eliminate such quotas in t\\v fall of 1 1)70 'i 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. None whatsoever? 

Mr. ,J.\fonsEX. No. 

A[r. Wf.itz. "Were you aware — did you attend the annual conven- 
tion of AMPl in K^M^ptemher 1970 { 

Mr. Jacobsex. I attendetl one of the two con\ entions. 

Mr. "Wkitz. And you attended the one at which the President did 
not speak? 

Mr. JAtxmsEx. That is correct. 

]Mr. AVeitz. Do you recall whether that Avas the one in 1970 ? 

INIr. Jacobsex'. Xo, I don't, Mr. Weitz. 

Wo went through this once before, T should have called somebody to 
refresh my memory, but 1 didn't. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk to Mr. Xelson ov Mr. Parr at any time 
during the fall of 1970 in connection with tluir attempt — the summer 
or fall of 1970, in connection with their attempts to have the President 
attend that annual meeting ? 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. Yes, I ditl. 

i\[r. Weitz. And what did they tel I you ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. That they were ti} ing to get the President. 

Again, let me siiy that the one tliat he didn't speak at, is that the 
one you were talking about ? 

INI r. Weitz. I believe that was in 197i>. 

]\[r. Jacobsex. I'hat is the one he didn't attend ? 

Mr. AVeitz. Yes ; the first one. 

jNIr. Jacobsex. 1970 — he attended the one in 1971. 

Mr. Weitz. That is wliat I understand. 

Mr. Jacobsex. That gives me a point to talk from. 

In 1970 I knew tliey tried to get President Nixon to attend the con- 
vention, because they talked to me and talked to me about the feasi- 
bility of having President Johnson call President Nixon to try to get 
him to attend. 

Mr. Weitz. Was President Johnjon contacted? 

Mr. JAC0BSEx^ No, not by me, he wasn't. I w ouldn't do that. 

Mr, Weitz. Did tlicy ask you to gain the asoistance of JNIr, Connally 
in that connection^ 

jNIr. Jacobsex', No. 

IMr. Weitz. Do you know who in the administration they did talk 
to to ivy to obtain the Pi'esident's attendance at that meeting? - 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I really don't, Mr. Weitz. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know the firm of Reeves Harrison? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I know — which one is Harrison— his first name? 

Mr. Weitz. Would that be ]Marion Harrison ? 

Ml-. Jacobsex. Yes, I knew Mr. Harrison. 

Ml'. Weitz. AVere you aware that they were retained by A]\H*I at 
that time in 1970? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

JNIr. Weitz. Do you know that Pat Hillings \vas counsel to that firm? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I didn't. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know Pat Hillings ? 



6406 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you aware ^^ liether Mr. Nelson and INIr. Parr met 
with the President sometime in 1070 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Has someone told _\()U that they met witli him, or have 
yon heard that they met with him ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. In 1970 ? 

Mv. AVeitz. Yes. 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I don't know iii 1970 

INIr. Weitz. Were you aware of any discussions in connection with 
additional contribntiojis to the Pi-esideiifs campaign by TAPP^ or 
any of the dairy compan ics ? 

]\[r. Jacobsen. No, I was not aware of tlic additional contril)utions in 
1970. 

Mr. Weitz. AAHiat alxnit discai.'sions v>ith regard to making addi- 
tional contributions? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. No, I didn't k]i(nv about tliat. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you 'niow wlio the dairy people contacted or met 
with principally in the White House when they had any such meeting 
or contacts? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. That was all done (lirougli IJeeves aiul Tlarri- 
son. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you understand t liat jNIr. ( 'olson was one of tlie prin- 
cipal contacts in the White House ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't Ivuow. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ]:!iow in 1070 of any discussions or any other 
references to possible rontributions or commitments of contri])utions 
by the dairy people to t]ie President's reelection ? 

JNIr. Jacobsen. No, I didn't. 

All I know about that is what 1 read in vhc paper in that lettci' from 
;Mr. Hillings. 

Mr. Weitz. Other than what you have read in tlie paper, do you 
know whether the daiiv people in the fall of 1970 were in contact 
with jNIr. Kalmbach again in cojuu-ction ^^ itli contributions^ 

Mr. Jacobsen. Not through me. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whedier thi'ongh anyone else? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I don't. 

jNIr. jNIcNelis. Excuse me. 

I don't know whether that is an ans\\er to the question you are 
asking. 

The question was, does he know '(■ 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't ]<now. 

]\Ir. Weitz. They weren't through you. And do you know whethei- 
they were in contact witli iiim tliKiUgh anyone else ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't, 

IMr. Weitz. Do you know Tom K\ ans ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know wheihier the dairy people Avere in contact 
with him with regard to contrilmtions to tlie President's reelection? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I don't. 

Mr. Dash. You were still retained during this period of time as 
sort of a political advise i- to him, weren't you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, tliey didn't talk to me about Tom Evans; I don't 
even know who he is. 



6407 

]\rr. Weitz. Did there come a time in 1971 wlien you represented 
AMPI in their effort to obtain an increase in milk price supports? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And could you tell us what you did in their behalf? 

Mr. Jacobsex. "Well, I talked to Secretary Connally twice about the 
increase in ])rice suppoits, once before March 1:2. and once after March 
12 and l)cfore ]\Iarch 25. 

Mr. AVeitz. Do you recall how often you talked with Mr. Connally 
or how many times you talked with Mr. Connally? Were these the 
only two times you talked with ]\Ir. Connally during that period of 
time ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall any otlier matter that you discussed 
with Mr. Connally during that i)eriod of time? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Can you tell us how you came to talk with liim the 
first time ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Well, the hi-st time I knew from Mr. Parr and Mr. 
Nelson that the dairy quota was under considei-ation. And I liad 
hoped that Secretary Connally would be consulted about it, or at 
least become interested in it. And I made it a point to talk to him 
about the fact that 1 thought the Agriculture Department was 
planning to set the import ({uota or the price-support level at a low 
figure and hoped that he would try to use his influence to get it raised 
to a more reasonable figure. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk to him at this time or any other time 
about import quotas in connection with the dairy industry? 

Mr. McXelis. Excuse me. I do understand that he says he had 
two convei'sations. 1 am getting confused. 

jNIr. Weitz. We are still talking about the first one, but since I 
mentioned import quotas 

Mr. McXelis. And the first one was around ^Nlarcli 12, or 
prior 

Mr. Weitz. That was Mr. Jacobsen's testimony. 

Mr. ^IcXelis. I don't recall talking to him about it. 

Mr. Weitz. What was Mr. (^onnally's response ? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. He said he would try to be helpful if he could. 

jVIr. Weitz. Did he say how he would be helpful ? 

]\Ir, Jacobsex. No. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Did you say he would discuss it with the Secretary 
of Agriculture ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, he didn't say what he would do or wouldn't; 
he said he would try to be helpful if he could. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you or he discuss political contributions by the 
dairy people ? 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. Xo. sir. 

]Mr. Weitz. Did you and he discuss political support by the dairy 
people for the President ? 

^Ir. Jacobsex. Well. I believe I mentioned that this was a large 
organization, and that if the quotas were set low and it would hurt 
the President's support within this organization 

Mr. Weitz. You say you did not discuss contributions with Mr, 
Connally? 



30-33: (book 15) O 



6408 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Who asked you to go to see Mr. Connally? 

Mv. Jacobsex. Nobody. 

Mr. Weitz. You volunteered ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I volunteered. 

Mr. Weitz. Who in AMPI did vou tell you were going to see Mr. 
Connally? 

Mr. Jacobsex. INIr. Parr and Mr. Nelson. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you report back to them after your meeting with 
Mr. Connally? 

INIr. Jacobsex. I am sure I did. 

Ml'. Weitz. Do you recall leporting back to them ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't recall it, no; but I am sure I did. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember what you told them about your 
meeting with Mr. Connally ? 

jNfr. Jacobsex. No. I am sure I told them that I had a ver}^ sat- 
isfactory meeting with Secretaiy Connally, and that he said he 
would be as helpful as he could. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Secretary Connally optimistic in the meeting 
about the likelihood of obtaining an increavSe for the dairy industry? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I couldn't say he Avas either optimistic or pessi- 
mistic. 

Mr. Weitz. At this time when you presumably reported back to 
Mr. Nelson and Mr. Parr about your meeting with ]\lr. Connally, 
did you discuss political support or political contributions with 
them to the Republican Party ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Well, I don't recall if it was at that time or some 
other time. But they did a lot of talking about making substantial 
contributions to the Nixon administration. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they indicate any specific amounts ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Oh, the figures weie in the millions. 

]\Ir. Weitz. In the millions ? 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. More than $2 million ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't recall 

Mr. Weitz. Did they use the phrase "millions,"' or did they men- 
tion some various amounts that were in the millions ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't recall specifically, but the talk was about 
big money. 

Mr. Weitz. To the President foi- his reelection ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they indicate that they had discussed contribu- 
tions with any fundraisers or anyone else representing the 
President ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I don't think they did. 

Mr. Weitz. With anyone in the administration or any adminis- 
tration fundraisers? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, sir, not that I know of. 

Mr. Weitz. So this was just a discussion which they had with you 
al)out contributing in the millions to the Presidents reelection? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Tliat is all I can testify to. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall when this conversation or conversations 
took place ? 



6409 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, it was diuiiig the period of time — I know it 
was diii-ing the period of time that tlie price support problem came 

j\Ir. Weitz. This was in Februai'v and INIarch of 1971 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. AVeitz. The 1972 election was a year and a lialf away. 

Did they indicate why they were interested at that time in dis- 
cussing, or why in fact they discussed making; contributions in the 
millions to the President's reelection ^ 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they indicate that such contributions might increase 
the likelihood of obtaining an increase ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, not that I know of, Mr. "Weitz. 

Mr. Weitz. You were there. 

Mr. Jacobsex. I was there, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they express the hope that it would have that effect? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't recall, Mr. Weitz. And I hate to speculate 
about something like that. 

Mr. Dash. This conyersation, I understand, was in conjunction with 
your reporting back to them as to your meeting with Mr. Connally? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, it wasn't. 

Mr. Weitz, It definitely was not — there were two separate meetings? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, there were several meetings during this time. And 
what I am saying is, these conversations about money took place at the 
time — during the period of time the price support matter was before 
the administration. 

Mr. Weitz, And you saw the Secretary when that matter was before 
the administration ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Dash. I understand that their interest in supporting the Presi- 
dent still was to get a beneficial reaction. 

Mr. Jacobsex. He has asked me to assume that, and I would liaye to 
assume it. 

Mr. Weitz. I didn't ask you to assume it. I asked you whether in fact 
they expressed the hope or indicated that that was the purpose. 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo ; they did not. 

Mr. Dash. Was it necessary to express it? You all were working in 
the same direction. Was it an understanding that you all had that such 
a contribution would be aimed in the direction of getting a beneficial 
result? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Mr. Dash, I would have to assume that would be right. 

Mr. Dash. I mean, reasonable men working together under such cir- 
cumstances would expect a particular result, would they not? 

Mr. Jacobsex*. I would have to assume that would be right. But I 
hate to assume the answei- to a question. 

Mr. Weitz. In 1969, $100,(100 had been contributed, you have testified, 
in order to gain, as you understood it. a sympathetic ear in the 
administration? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And was any such similar characterization or expression 
made with regard to contributions in the millions when these references 
were made in 1970-71 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Mr. Weitz, let me explain. These conversations took 
place with Mr. Xelson and Mr. Parr primarily talking to each other. 



6410 

and I would just overhear what they were saying. I was not involved in 
the contributions to the Rej)ublicans. That was done all through Reeves 
and Harrison. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall whether Mr. Lilly was present during any 
such meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall whether Marion Harrison was present 
during any of these meetings or discussions ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Harrison present during most of the meetings 
in February and March that you attended in w^hich strategy and con- 
tacts with various administration officials were discussed ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. He was not? 

Mr. Jacobsen, No. 

Mr. Weitz. How often was he there when you were there? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall any instances in which you were present 
and he was present ? 

Mr. Jacobsen.. I don't really recall any that he was present. But I am 
just assuming that he was present at some of them. 

Mr. Weitz. And did there come a time when you discussed this 
matter again with Secretary Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes; after the unfavorable action by the admin- 
istration. 

Mr. Weitz. And if that was on jMarcli 12, then it would have been 
after JNlarch 12, 1971, but before the second decision ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mv. Weitz. Do you recall whether it was closer to the first or closer 
to the second decision in time when you talked to the Secretary ? 

Mr, Jacobsen, No, I don't, Mr, Weitz, 

Mr. Weitz. And did someone ask you to meet with him ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I think I volunteered to do that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you tell Mr. Nelson and Mr. Parr that you were 
going to meet with the Secretary ? 

Mr. Jacobsen, Yes, 

Mr, Weitz, And it — did they express approval ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. They were anxious that you meet with him ? 

Mr, Jacobsen. Oh. yes. 

Mr. Weftz. What took place at your meeting with Mr. Connally? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Again, I expressed the bad consequences of the ad- 
ministration's action, with the cost of feed going up and the various 
problems in the dairy industry. I discussed the bad consequences of the 
administration's decision to lower or to have the lowest price support 
in the history of the dairy industi-y. And I asked Secretary Connally 
if he would help if he was consulted to get it raised. 

Mr. Wfjtz. What was his response? 

Mr. Jacobsen, He said he would do what he could to be helpful, 

JVIi". Weitz. He said that the first time? Did he indicate who he 
might talk to to be more effective the second time? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate whether, in fact, after the first meeting 
whether he had talked to anyone on behalf of the dairy people? 



6411 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes; lie told me that he had talked to some people. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he say he had talked to the President ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No ; he didn't tell me that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he — he didn't tell you he hadn't talked to the 
President ^ 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he tell you to whom he had talked? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. At that meeting", did you discuss political contributions 
by the dairy people ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss political support by the dairy industry? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo; I don't believe I did. I Ijclieve I mentioned the 
eft'ectiveness of these people, in that they had gone up to the Hill and 
gotten some signatures on a bill which \\ould be in efi'ect talking about 
politics. 

Mr. W^eitz. You say that you did not have any other meetings with 
Secretary Connally on the question of milk price supports during this 
period between — in February or March of 1970 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Xot to my best recollection. 

Mr. Weitz. I have here a summary — which I won't enter as an ex- 
hibit because it is just a summary — of Mr. Connally's logs for that 
period — indicate that you talked or ii\et with Mr. Connally four times 
from February 25, 1971, to March 25, 1971. 

I would like you to go througn this and see if you can pinpoint the 
date when you met Secretary Connally with reference to the milk price 
support fjuestion. 

On February 25. 1971, you called Mr. Coimall}'. The first time you 
met with him you actually met with him in person in his ofRce? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Y'es. 

Mr. Weitz. And so that was not the occasion you first described? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know why you called him on February 25 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Xo. sir. 

]\Ir. Weitz. You don't recall any other matters that you may have 
discussed with the Secretary in P\>bruarv and March of 1971? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Xo ; I don't. 

Mr. Dash. To set up a meeting with the Secretary, would you have 
called him on the telephone ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. I probably would. 

Mr. Weitz. The next occasion is March 4, 1971 — you met w'ith Mr. 
Connally and an agent named Larry Temple from 9 :20 to 10 :30 a.m. 

Do you recall that meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Y\'S ; I recall it. 

Mr. Weitz. What was the purpose of that meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. The purpose of that meeting was to give Secretary 
Connally some photographs that we had nuide for him. 

Mr. Weitz. Who was Larry Temple ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. He is a lawyer in Austin. He used to be Secretary 
Connally's assistant. 

Mr. Weitz. Why did it take an hour and 10 minutes? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Because he wanted to talk about Texas politics. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he talk about the X)rice support question at all? 



6412 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you raise it at all ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Oh, no. 

Mr. Weitz. The next occasion is March 19, 1971. And that means 
that the only time 

Mr. Jacobsex. Then I must have raised it at the time Temple was 
there. 

Mr. Weitz. With Mr. Temple present '\ 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't know if Temple — Temple might have left the 
room ; I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall conferring with the Secretary alone on 
that occasion 'I 

Mr. Jacobsen. I may have ; yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you alone when you discussed the matter of milk 
price supports before the first decision ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes ; I think I was. 

Mr. Weitz. So if the Secretary's records are accurate, and if you 
only met with him in February and March of 1971, once before the 
first decision, the — presumably on March 4, 1971, for a portion of the 
time indicated in his records 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And do you recall how long the meeting took place? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Wliere is Mr. Temple now ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. He is in Austin. 

Mr. Weitz. And what is his position? He is a lawyer there, you 
say? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. You were in Washington for a f)eriod of time in ]March 
1971 ? In other words for more than a day or two, for more than the 
times when you met with the Secretary % 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. That was during the period of time when I would 
come up here about once a week, ]Mr. Weitz, and spend 2 or 3 days up 
here, 

Mr. Weitz. So you were here for a number of days in INIarch of 
1971 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, the next time you met with the Secretary, it was 
also in person in his office ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. How was that meeting arranged ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I called the Secretary, I think, and made the appoint- 
ment. 

Mr. Weitz. ^Yliy didn't you call his secretary the first time to make 
an appointment rather than the Secretary himself ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Well, sometimes when I Avould try to talk to the 
Secretary he would find out I was on the line and get on the line. I 
always tried to make them through his secretary. 

Mr. Weitz. And the next meeting indicated with vou and Mr. Con- 
nally is on March 19, 1971, from 12 :10 to 12 :25, you and Mr. Connally. 
Is that the meeting in which you discussed milk price supports? 

Mr. Jacobsen. It sounds like it. 

Mr. Weitz. And neither at that meeting or the first meeting did you 
discuss political contributions ? 



6413 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, in your deposition of November 7, 1973, in tlie 
case of Nader ao;ainst Butz, on {nx^e 29 you were asked the folloAving: 

'"Did you discuss at either of those meetinos" — referring; to the two 
meetings with Mr. Connally — "the question of political campaign con- 
tributions by the dairy industry to President Nixon V 

And your answer: ''1 don't recall mentionin<j that, but I may." 

Mr. Jacobsex. In the original of that deposition, the signed copy, 
I struck off ''but I may." 

Mr. "Weitz. Are you referring to the previous question which said 
"at either of those meetings did you discuss the question of political 
support for President Nixon from the dairy f aimers?" 

Your answer: "I don't recall mentioning that.'- Period. And you 
struck out after that "but I may have." 

Now, there is no similar line for the answer which I first read. 

Mr. Jacobsex. I meant to do that. 

]\Ir. Weitz. So your testimony now — your intended testimony now — 
is that you don't recall mentioning that? 

Mr. Jacobsex. That is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. And today you have told us that you did not mention 
that? 

jNIr. Jacobsex. That is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. How have you refreshed your recollection? Are you 
more certain today than you were at that time ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No; not any more certain. 

Mr. Weitz. So, in fact, your answer to us today is that you don't 
recall mentioning either political support or campaign contributions? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Well, actually, a mistake was made. 

I meant to strike through the one down here 

Mr. Dash. When you say you don't recall, just so that I understand, 
does that mean that you could have but don't recall ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. That is right. 

]Mr. Dash. So that "but I may," is correct in that answer — you don't 
recall, but you may have ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I meant to strike out "but I may.'' Down here. And 
leave it up here. 

Mr. Weitz. ]Mr. Dash's question is, the answer to both of those 
questions is: "I don't recall." To which you attach the significance, the 
meaning that you may or may not have. You said this in your deposi- 
tion, and the answers are correct as originally recorded and 
transcribed? 

Mr. Jacobsex. They may be. 

[Off the record.] 

5lr. Weitz. Did you report back after your second meeting with Mr. 
Connally to the dairy people ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, I did. 

jMr. Weitz. What did you tell them about the meeting ? 

ISIr. Jacobsex. I told them I had another satisfactory meeting with. 
Secretary Connally, and he said he would try to be as helpful as he 
could. 

Mr. Weitz. This was on March 19 — and then there is a call indi- 
cated on INIarch 23, 1971, Jacobsen called Connally. 

Do you recall that call ? 



6414 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember that on Marcli 23, 1971, the dairy 
people met with the President? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, they told me they did. 

Mr. Weitz. In your call to Mr. Connally did you discuss that meet- 
ing? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. You definitely did not discuss that meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I didn't discuss it. 

Mr. Weitz. What did you discuss? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't remember. 

Mr. Weitz. How can you be certain, then, that you didn't discuss the 
price support question? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I may have discussed the price support question, but 
I dichi't discuss the meeting of the dairy people with the President, 
because I didn't know much about that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did the Secretary indicate that the President had met 
with him that day ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, he didn't. 

Mr. McNelts. May I ask a question ? 

Were you aware of the meeting with the President, the dairy people ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. They told me about it. Parr and Nelson. 

Mr. McNelis. Prior or after? Were you aware that they were going 
to meet w^ith the Pi-esident — is my specific question ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I'm not sure. 

Mr. Weitz. Are you aware that Mr. Connally met with the President 
and other Presidential advisers also on the 23d ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did INIr. Connally mention any meeting or any conver- 
sations he had or was going to have with the President in your call to 
him on March 23 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, he didn't. 

Mr. Weitz. On ]\Iarch 23, was Mr. Connally encouraging about the 
milk price support question ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. You don't recall discussing it at all ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't recall discussing it, but I probably did discuss 
it. It was a matter that was on my mind. 

Mr. McNelts. Do you have the time of that telephone conversation 
of March 23, Mr. Weitz ? 

Mr. Weitz. No. Mr, Connally's logs don't indicate times generally, 
except in calls to and from the President. 

Do you recall, or are you aware of any conversations on March 23 or 
March 24 of 1971, that is, the day they have met with the President — 
the dairy people met with the President— and the subsequent day, in 
which the matter of dairy price supports were discussed which you 
either attended or which you heard about ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I don't recall any meeting at all. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you meeting with them at that time, were you in 
Wasliington at that time? 

Mr, Jacobsen, I don't know if I was in Washington or not, Mr. 
Weitz. 



6415 

Mr. Weitz. Do yoii know of any discussions concerning political 
contributions on either of those 2 days ? 
Mr. Jacobsen. No. I don't recall. 

Mr. Weitz. You saiil before that there wei-e a number of meetings 
throughout this period in which Mr. Nelson and Mr. Parr were talk- 
ing about political contributions to the President? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. So you are not certain whether or not they took place 
on March 23 or ^laVch 24 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I am not sure. I know on March 25 I was some- 
place in Iowa. And I don't know if I was in Washington on the 23d 
or 24th or not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever discuss with ]\Ir. Nelson or Mr. Parr during 
February or March of 1971 the necessity of contributing new money 
to the President's reelection effort, or neW money to the Republicans? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No more than just their regular conversations that 
they were having about distributing money. 

Mr. ]McNelis. That expense record we sent up, do you have it here ? 
I bring it up because since he mentioned the visit to Iowa, it may re- 
fresh his recollection as to that. 

Mr. WErrz. We have it here. 

You will have to identify it. This was provided to me. I don't know 
what tliis is. 

Mr. Jacobsen. It is a client disbursement sheet for AMPI. 

Did you have the page ? 

Mr. Weitz. It is toward the back. 

Did you fill this out? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; my secretary filled it out. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you review this after it was completed ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. McNelis. I might say, Mr. Weitz, that document to my imder- 
standing was presented to you through me, I received it from the firm 
after talking to Mr. Long and advising him as to what you want with 
respect to the AMPI records that the firm liad, that came to me and 
I delivered it to you. 

Mr. Weitz. I believe that this is the page that has no page number 
on it. But it seems to reflect cei-tain disbursements in March of 1971. 

Did that reflect all disbursements and all travels of yourself? 

Mr. Jacobsen. It is supi:)Osed to, Mr. Weitz. 

Mr. Weitz. If you flew on a company plane would it indicate that? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. AMPI had a company jet at that point ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. And I flew on it considerably. 

On the 25th I had a trip to Minnesota. On the 18th I had a trip to 
Washington. So I wasn't in low^a, I was in ]\Iinnesota on the 25th. 

Mr. Weitz. Rut vou were in Washington before that time, some time 
in March of 1971 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, on the 18th. 

Mr. Dash. That was probably just prior to your meeting Avith Mr. 
Connally ? 

Mr. Weitz. That is right, on the 19th. 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 



6416 

Mr. Weitz. Are you aware of political contributions made by TAPE 
to Republican committees in March of 1971 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I am aware of them now. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And how did you become aware of them ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. They told me they were making them. 

Mr. Weitz. A¥1io told you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Nelson and Parr. 

Mr. Weitz. When did they tell you of that ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. They might have told me at the time they made the 
contributions, Mr. Weitz, I am not sure. 

Mr. Weitz. If the report of TAPE indicates that on March 22, 1971, 
TAPE made a contribution of $10,000 to four Republican national 
committees, does that refresh your recollection as to when you were 
told that they were making some contributions to the Republican 
Party? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, it doesn't refresh my recollection; it would just 
tell me that they made the contributions. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk about political contributions to Mr. Nelson 
both during March 1971 and thereafter. 

Mr. Jacobsen. I am sure I did. 

Mr. Dash. You talked about them in March 1971. So you could have 
learned contemporaneously about the contributions — that they were 
being made — or later ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I could have. Bear in mind, Mr. Dash, that all these 
contributions were made through Reeves & Harrison, and not through 
me. 

Mr. Dash. I understand that. But since you were counsel, and you 
had a special political relationship, would it not again be reasonable 
that they would discuss this with you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Not necessarily, Mr. Dash. 

Mr. Dash. Or at least mention it to you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Not necessarily. Mr. Parr and Mr. Nelson were rather 
jealous about the prerogative of making contributions. And if they 
were going to make contributions that I didn't have anything to do 
with they would probably mention them to me. But they wouldn't ask 
my advice or go out of their way to talk to me about \t. They figured 
that was their business. 

Mr. Dash. But they would want you to know that they made them; 
would they not ? It would assist you at least in your relationship as a 
political liaison to be knowledgeable as to what they were doing in 
terms of political contributions? 

Mr. Jacobsen. They might, Mr. Dash. But they might not. They 
were pretty jealous in their keeping the information to tliemselves 
about the contributions that I didn't have anything to do with. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know of any contacts between the dairy people 
and Mr. Kalmbach in March of 1971? 

Mr. Sanders. I didn't hear the question. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know at the time of any contacts between the 
daily people and Mr. Kalmbach in March of" 1971 ( 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I didn't. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you learn since of any such contact at that time? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No; I haven't. 



6417 

You could help me by telling mo wIumi the first time was ihat I took 
Nelson out to see Kalmbacli. AVas that iu 1972? 

Mr. "Weitz. "Was that the first time around that time when you first 
learned or knew of a contact between the dairy people and INlr. Kalm- 
bach, other than IDOl) ( 

Mr. Jacobsen. That is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. So between 1969, and perhaps, you said, in 1972, when 
you took Nelson out to see Kalmbach, you don't know of any contact 
during that time between the dairy people and ]Mr. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No; I didn't know that. 

Mr. McNelis. When was that time? (^an we establish it? 

Mr. Weitz. I belie\e Mr. Jacobsen said he thought it was 1972. We 
will get to that later after the break. 

Do you know IMurray Chotiner ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know that he was of counsel in 1971 in the firm 
of Eeeves & Ha rrison ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I heard that : yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether any of the dairy people had any 
contact with jMr. Chotiner during March of 1971 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know at the time or subsequently of any politi- 
cal contributions by either of the other two dairy trusts, ADEPT and 
SPACE, to the President's reelection committee or Republican com- 
mittee in March of 1971? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you have any meeting with any representatives of 
those trusts or those other two co-ops ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, sir. 

]Mr. Weitz. Were you aware whether Mr. Nelson and Mr. Parr were 
meeting during that period with Mr. Hanman, for example, of Mid- 
America ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. I think I was aware of that. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you aware, for example, that they were also meet- 
ing with Mr. Westwater and others of Dairymen, Inc. ? 

Mr. Ja( obsex. I didn't know Mr. Westwater at the time. I was 
aware tliat they were meeting with Ben Morgan. 

Mr. Weitz. Ben Morgan of Dairymen, Inc. ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr, Weitz. Were they also meeting with Paul Alagia at that time? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. What did you understand about the meetings that were 
taking place between the three co-ops? 

Mr. JAcoBSE^^ Primarily I understood that what they were talking 
about was trying to get an effective merger between the co-ops. 

Mr. Weitz. Did it have anything to do with the milk price support 
question ? 

Mr. Jacobsex-^. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether they were discussing political 
contributions by one or more of the dairy co-ops or their trusts to the 
President's reelection or the Republican National Committees. 

Mr. Jacobsex. No ; I don't. 



6418 

Mr. Weitz. You said before that Mr. Nelson and Mr. Parr had dis- 
cussed throughout that period in a number of meetings, contributions 
in the milhons to the President? 

Mr. Jacobsen, Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. I3o you know whether they took any steps to make con- 
tributions to the President, or to the President's reelection effort. 

Mr. Jacobsen. The only efforts I know of where those to that num- 
ber of committees, $2,500 apiece to a lot of committees. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it your understanding that that was for the Presi- 
dent or the President's reelection ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz, Who provided those committees ? Who organized those 
committees, do you know ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know how it came about that the dairy people 
contributed to those committees 'i 

Mr. Jacobsen. I think Reeves & Harrison worked it out. 

Mr. Weitz. Worked it out ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know who in the Republican fundraising effort 
provided the names of those committees to them ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. Kalmbach was involved in 
providing or helping to assist in providing those names to them? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know who in the administration, Mr. Harrison 
or the firm of Reeves & Harrison, were contacted about such contribu- 
tions if they contacted anyone? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know of any contacts that were being made in 
March of 1971 with Mr. Dent, by the claiiy people — with either Mr. 
Dent or Mr. Colson ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Or Mr. Ehrlichman ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I don't, 

Mr. Weitz. Were you aware of a loan from TAPE to ADEPT in 
March or April of 1971 in the amount of $50,000 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I was not aware of that. 

Mr. Weitz. Exactly what did you know about the contribution to 
the multiple committees in 1971 by the dairy people ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Only that they were going to be made. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know for what purpose ? 

Mr. Jacobsen, No, 

Mr, Weitz, Do you know whether there were any commitments 
made in March of 1971 by the dairy people to either Republican fund- 
raiser's or anyone in the administration that such contributions would 
be made? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Weitz, Such commitments could have been made, though, since 
you were not advised of all of their effoi"ts. 

Mr. Jacobsen, Absolutely, 

Mr, Weitz. At any time after the price support decision in 1971 — 
the second one, to increase supports — ^lias anyone, other than what you 



6419 

have I'ead in the paper, ever talked to you, or have you ever learned 
about any understandin^j or comniitnient for contributions by the dairy 
people in the hope of obtaining an increase, or in fact in the expecta- 
tion of obtaining an increase ? 

Mr. Jacouskx. No; I don't know that. 

Mr. Wkitz. Have you e\er discussed this matter with ]\Ir. Parr or 
Mr. Xelson since ]\larch 1971, the matter of political contributions 
and milk price support decisions ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. To the present time ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't think so. 

Mr. DoRSEX'. Do you know whethei- the second increase decision 
was handled in any way other than the Jiormal procedure that was 
customarily followinl by the Department of Agriculture and theWiite 
House ? 

INIr. Jacobsex'. Xo ; I don't know. 

Mr. McXelis. Do you know how it was handled ? 

Mr. Jacobsex". Xo ; I don't. I said I don't know. 

Mr. McXelis. Meaning you don't know how it w^as handled, period? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. I don't know how it was handled, and I don't know 
what the normal procedure would be. 

Mr. DoKSEX'. And you did not hear, or it was never suggested to you 
that it Avas handled in a manner other than was customary' ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. It was not suggested to me, no, sir. 

Mr. DoRSEX'. This probably would be a good time for a break. 

[Whereupon, at 12 :53 p.m., the committee recessed to reconvene at 
1 :30 p.m., the same day.] 



Atternoon Session 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Jacobsen, did there come a time iii April or May 
of 1971 when you approaclied Bob Lilly for some moneys not in con- 
nection with your legal fees i 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us about that i 

Mr. Jacobsen. 1 approached Bob Lilly to arrange for me to get 
$10,000 that we would make available to Secretary Connally to give 
out as he pleased to any politicians he wanted to give it to. 

Mr. Weitz. Had you done this before? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Had you ever approached anyone else for Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Wli}' did you do so in this case ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Well, I thought it would be helpful to Secretary 
Connally, since he has been lielpful to us in the price-support thing, 
I thought it would be helpful to him if he could make some political 
donations to politicians he wanted to make them to. 

Mr. Weitz. Exactly how had Mr. Connally been helpful to you in 
the milk price-support decision ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Well, he had spoken to whoever he spoke to in the 
administration. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you liave any understanding or was there any 
indication that that had some relationship to the increase ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Xo. But 1 just assumed that he, being who he was, and 
him saying a good word for us, it would have been helpful to us. 

Mr. Weitz. And he did this by way of trying to have the dairy peo- 
ple show their appreciation to Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. ^Vliy did you approach :Mr. Lilly rather than Mr. Isham 
or Mr. Nelson ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Because Lilly was the one I generally dealt with in 
politics. 

Mr. Weitz. Did it have anything to do with the fact that Mr. Lilly 
had come to you for payments toward that loan ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. We just generally dealt with Mr. Lilly in the 
political area. 

Mr. Weitz. How did you expect Mr. Lilly to provide you with the 
money ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I did not know. Mr. Weitz. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you exjiect it to be from his personal finances, or 
would it be from contributions from employees, or from T4PE or 
what? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I did not know. T just asked him if he could get it 
for me. 

Mv. AVeitz. And you told him that it would pei-haps go for what- 
ever purposes Mr. Connally directed yo\i to put it to ? 

(6421) 



6422 

Mr. Jacobsen. Correct. 

Mr. Wkitz. Did you indicate tliat you had talked to Mr. Coiinally 
about it ? 

Mr. Jacobskx. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you indicate tluit to Mr. Lilly at that time? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No'; I do not think that I did. 

Mr, Weitz. When was it that you api^roached him ; do you recall ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Wefiz. Some time about a month after the milk price-support 
decision in March ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Some time al)Out a month, I guess. I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you tell Lilly it would be for political contribu- 
tions ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not remember exactly what I told Mr. Lilly. I 
think I told him it would be for Connally's use. 

Mr. Weitz. For Connally's use. Did you tell Mr. Lilly — I am sorry 
if you said this before, but did you tell him how much money you 
wanted ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes ; I told him $10,000. 

Mr. Weitz. And did you say in what foi-m you wanted the money? 

Mr. Jacobsen. In cash. 

Mr. Weitz. Why did you ask that it be in cash ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. "WellJ because it would be hard for Mr. Connally 
to make a contribution to somebody with a TAPE check, that would 
be a contribution from TAPPl 

Mr. Weitz. So you viewed this as money to be made available for 
personal political contributions by Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Correct. 

Mr. Weitz. And you had no idea how Mr. Lilly or AMPI or TAPE 
would account for that $10,000 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Weitz. What made you think that Mr. Lilly would comply with 
your i-equest ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I did not know that he would. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you then talk to Mr. Connally about this? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes ; I did talk to him. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk with him at that time, or after you 
received the money ? 

Mr. Jacobsen, After I received the money. 

Mr. Weitz. What next transpired between you and Mr. Lilly? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Mr. Lilly brought the money for me. 

Mr. Weitz. How did he deliver it to you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. In an envelope. 

Mr. Weitz. Where? 

Mr. Jacobsen. In my office, I think. 

Mr. Weitz. In Austin ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall when he delivered it to you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I do not, 

Mr, Weitz, Did he tell you when he delivered the money to you 
where he got the money from ? 

Mr, Jacobsen, No ; he did not, 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ask him ? 



6423 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Is this the only occasion tliat 3'Ou know of in which you 
asked Mr. Lilly or he provided to you or to anyone else cash for some 
political or siniilai- transaction i 

Mr. Jacobsen. To nie, this is the only occasion. 

Mr. "Weitz. Do you know of any other transaction in which Mr. 
Lilly handled cash and (r<ive it to either political candidates or for 
political contributions directly or indirectly i 

Mr. Jacobsex Xo, 1 do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you not consider this request somewhat unusual ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Lilly indicate that he considered it unusual? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No ; he did not seem to say anthing. 

Mr. Weitz. What did you do with the money ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Well, first of all, I took it 

Mr. Weitz. What form was it in when he o;ave it to you? You say it 
was in an envelope ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. It was in $100 bills. The first thino^ I did was change 
it into smaller bills, because there are a lot of politicians that do not 
like to take $100 bills. So I changed it and put it in a safety deposit box. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Kalmbach took $100 bills ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Wi:iTz. How did you know that the delivery was in $100 bills 
to Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. You just said so. 

Mr. Weitz. You said yes. Do you know that ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I clo not. 

Mr. McNelis. Excuse me. Were you answering affirmatively that his 
statement Avas correct, or were you just saying yes? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I was just saying yes. He said it was in $100 bills. 

Mr. Weitz. You do not know that it Avas ? 

JNIr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. This $10,000 was in $100 bills from Mr. Lilly to you? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

]\rr. Weitz. At Citizens' National Bank? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No ; different banks. 

yir. Weitz. AAHiy. 

Mr. Jacobsex. It Avas just simpler to do it that way. 

Mr. Weitz. Could it not be traced ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No; it was just easier to go to a bank and take $1,000 
and say. oTA'e me $1,000 in twenties. 

Mr. Weitz. So you took the envelope and you immediately started 
going from bank to bank that day ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Oh. no : just in the next Aveek or so. 

Mr. Weitz. What did you do Avith the money upon receipt of it? 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. Left it at home. 

Mr. Weitz. Left it at home ? 

INIr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. AVeitz. And the fact that the entry record to your — let me put 
it this way: First of all. do you recall whether the delivery was made 
to you on ]May 4, 19T1 ? 

;Slr. Jacobsex'. No ; I do not. 

Mv. Weitz. But you did not put the money into one of your safety 
deposit boxes at Citizens' National Bank upon receiving it? 

30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 4 



6424 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Wp:itz. And you never told Mr. Lilly that you wanted $10,000 
to put into your lockbox for Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not think I put it that way. 

jNIr. Weitz. Ultimately, though, you did put the money into your 
safety deposit box ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. But you did not do so right away, you left $10,000 right 
at home ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you normally keep cash in that amount at home? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I have done it. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there any reason that you did not put it directly 
into your safety deposit box and break it down at some later time? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, because I wanted to change it, and it was easier 
to have it out of the safety deposit box when 1 was doing that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you make it down into smaller bills after you 
talked to Mr. Connally, or before? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, before. 

Mr. Weitz. When did you talk to Mr. Connally about this? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I think it was in June or July. 

Mv. Weitz. What did you tell him ? 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. I told him I had $10,000 that was available for him 
to give to any politicians he wanted to give it to. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you tell him how you had gotten the money, or who 
had given you the money ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I said the milk people. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you understand him to understand you about what 
that meant ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. The dairy co-ops ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And AMPI in particular? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. AMPI — well, I just said milk people, as I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. What was his i-esponse ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. His response was that he did not want to make any 
contributions. 

Mr. Weitz. So did he tell you to return the money ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. He did not tell me to do anything with it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you tell him that you had the money at that time? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. I think I did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you tell him you had it in cash ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not remember, Mv. Weitz, if I did or not, if I 
got that specific or not. 

Mr. Weitz. But you think you indicated that you had already 
received the money and had it available for his use? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I think I did indicate that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Secretary Connally express surprise that you made 
this re([uest, or told him of the fact ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No ; I do not think so. 

INIr. Weitz. Had you ever done so before— made money avail- 
al)1e to him? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 



6425 

Mr. Weitz. Was any things else said about the transaction or the 
availability of the money ? 

Mr, Jacobsex. No ; except he did not want it. 

]Mr. Weitz. But he did not tell you to return it ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No ; he did not tell me to return it. 

Mr. Dash. Did he give any reasons to explain why he did not want 
it? 

Mr. Jacobsex. He did explain why, T think. Briefly he said, 

I am a Democrat in a Republican administration, and I do not want to be 
giving money to Democrats, since I am in a Republican administration, and I 
do not want to be giving money to Republicans since I am a l^emocrat, so I 
would just rather not give anything. 

Mr. Weffz. This conversation, was this in person or over the phone? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. No ; this was in person. 

INIr. Weitz. And you say it was your best recollection that it would 
have been sometime either in ISIay or June of 1971 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, June or July. 

Mr. Weitz. June or July. And you say you made the request of Mr. 
Lilly approximately a month after the price-support decision? 

Mr. Jacobsex. You said that. 

Mr. AVeitz. Was it about a montli later? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. I do not know for sure when it was. 

Mr. Weitz. If Mr. Lilly said it was May 4, 1971, that he gave you 
the money, would you dispute that ? 

Mr. Jacobsex^. No, I would not dispute it. 

Mr. Weitz. And you say about a week later you broke the l)ills 
down? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Into smaller bills? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Within a week or two. 

Mr. Weitz. So that would be, say, the middle of May 1971? 

Mr. Jacobsex. During May of 1971. 

Mr. Weitz. And how soon thereafter did you meet with Secretary 
Connally to discuss this with him ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. In either June or Jn\y, I am not sure which. 

Mr. Weitz. And you do not remember how long after you broke 
down the bills to the time you met Secretary Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I do not remember. 

Mr. Wi:iTz. Do you recall how often or how many times you met 
with him during June or July ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, sir; I do not. His records will show that. 

Mr, Weitz. More than once ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I think so. His records will show that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you meet with him on an occasion in connection 
with lunch or dinner in the Madison Hotel when you discussed this? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not know. I have taken him to dinner at the 
Madison Hotel, but I do not know whether it was in connection with 
this or not. 

Mr. Weitz. Approximately how long did the meeting in which 
you discussed this matter last? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not remember. 

Mr. Weitz. Who is Warren Woodward ? 



6426 

Mf. Jacobsen, Warren Woodward is the vice president of American 
Airlines. 

Mr. Weitz. When jou met with the Secretary about this, were you 
alone? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember any meeting in which you and Mr. 
Long met with Mr. Connally in June? 

Mr. Jacobsen. One meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. One meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. One meeting ever between you, Mr. Long and Mr. Con- 
nally, or one meeting during that time ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. One meeting ever. 

Mr. McNelis. May I ask if the Long we are talking about is the 
Long of Jacobsen \s and Long law firm ? 

Mr. Weitz. That is my question. 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. When was that ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not remember. 

Mr. Weitz. What was the purpose of that meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsen. We took something to the Secretary. It was in two big 
boxes, and Mr. Long had to help me carry the box. I forget what it 
was. 

Mr, Weitz. Were they papers or objects or what? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Papers, I think. 

Mr. Weitz. Were they political papers ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. I think that was when we delivered the photo- 
graphs that Larry Temple and I talked to him about. 

Mr. Weitz. Two big boxes of photographs? 

Mr. Jacobsen. A box, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you deliver any money to him at that time? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever deliver any money to Mr. Connally? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir, I did not. 

Mr, Weitz. Just for identification purposes, I will mark as exhibit 18 
what appears to be — which was forwarded to us by you — an FBI in- 
ventory of a sum of money in your safety deposit box. 

[The document referred to was marked Jacobsen exhibit No. 18.*] 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Is this the inventory that you forwarded to us? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Is thei-e any reason that — how much money was counted 
by the FBI agents ? 
* Mr. Jacobsen. $10,000, 

Mr. Weitz. Were you present when they counted it ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. And they had me sign a slip to the effect that 
they counted $10,000 in my presence. 

Mr. Weitz. So, therefore, the fact that the inventory indicates only 
the amount, bills in the amount of $9,950, you ascribed earlier to a 
technical error? 

Mr. Jackson. They missed a $50 bill. 

Mr. McNelis. I do not know whether you checked that inventory or 
not, Mr. Weitz. That came to you through me. I twice went through it. 

*See p. 6488. 



6427 

And I came up with that fig:ure there. And I had another fellow check 
it in the office and he still came up $50 short. And T understand Mr. 
Jacobsen's position was that the count actually was $10,000. 

Mr. "Weitz. Have you ever delivered any money or directed the de- 
livery of any moneys — delivered any moneys oi- had any moneys de- 
livered for political purposes at the direction of Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, sir. 

Mr. "Weitz. In 1971, let us say, start with that ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. Did vou ever talk to Mr. Lilly subsequent to your con- 
versation with Mr. Connally about the $10,000 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not recall if I did. 

Mr. AVeitz. Why did you not return the money ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Well, I thouo;ht I would hold it a while, I knew we 
were (joiner to ^et into this Presidential campaio^n, and I thought maybe 
1 Avould give it to the Secretaiy then, into the Nixon election cam- 
paign. And I just did not return it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you have any idea of the source of the money? 

yh'. Jacobsex. No, I did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you speculate as to where it came from ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Correct me if I am wrong. There are at least several pos- 
sibilities. It could have come from TAPE, it could have come from Mr. 
Lilly's personal funds, and it could have come from corporate funds, 
or it could have been borrowed from a bank. Do you know whether it 
was borrowed from Citizens' National Bank? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. I do not know. 

INIr. jVIcNelis. Mr. Weitz. ]\Ir. Jacobsen says he does not know the 
source of it. If you speculate — — 

Mr. Weitz. I did not ask him to speculate, I asked him an exact 
question. 

Mr. McNelis. His answer is that he does not know. 

^Ir. Weitz. I think it is necessary to probe his understanding of 
the transaction. 

Let me ask the necessary question rather than ask for speculation. 

If it was from TAPE, you would have had to give them some, I take 
it — and if it was it would be a reported transaction. You would have 
to give them some committee or candidate to which to report the con- 
tribution, isthat correct? 

Mr. McNelis. Just a minute. It was not from TAPE. He spoke to 
Mr. Lilly. And it came from Mr. Lilly, if I understand his testimony. 

Mr. Weitz. I am saying, the source of the funds. 

But you never gave to ^Ir. Lilly any information as to the recipients 
either in terms of a political committee or political candidate for that 
money ? 

Mr. Jacobsex^. No. 

Mr. AYeitz. Did Mr. Lilly ever ask you ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. When you say you were going to hold it for at least until 
possibly the Presidential campaign of the following year, you in- 
tended, therefore, to hold it for at least several months or longer? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever make use of that $10,000 yourself? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. No, sir. 



6428 

Mr. Weitz. Why did you not break it into smaller bills when yon 
were goino- to make the particular contributions? 

Mr. McNelis. May I have the question ag-ain, please ? 

Mr. Weitz. Let me rephrase it. 

Why did you not wait to break down the bills? 

Mr. Jacohsen. Just because I did not. I did it when I got the money. 

Mr. WErrz. And you know of no use either by yourself, Mr. Long 
or anyone else, that has ever been made of that money ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. WErrz. Did you ever ask Mr. Lilly for any additional moneys 
for any purpose? 

Mr. Jacohsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Other than in connection with your fees ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. The matter of $10,000, was that ever discussed again by 
you and Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Only during the Democi-ats for Nixon campaign. 

Mr. Weitz. When was that? Not the campaign, the conversation. 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not remember. 

Mr. Weitz. It was in 1972 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. In 1972. 

Mr. Weitz. In the second half of 1972 ? 

Mr. Jac'Obsex. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Sometime between August 1, for example, and the 
election ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. What was Mr. Connally's position at that time? Was he 
still in Government? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; he was head of the Democrats for Nixon. 

]\Tr. Weitz. And you brought up the subject spontaneously? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I told him I still had that $10,000, and I would be glad 
to out it in the Democrats for Nixon cam]iaign. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ask you what $10,000 you were talking about? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not remember if he did or if he remembered the 
$10,000. 

Mr. Weitz. What was his res]^onse ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. lie did not want it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he say why ? 

Mr. Jabobsen. He did not want any money from AMPI because, I 
suppose, of the publicity they had received as a result of these series 
of small donations. 

Mr. Weitz. The pul)licity I'elatingto their donations in 1971 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whetliei- donations were made in 1971 by 
the otlier two co-ons in the same fashion ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you aware of the publicity in 1971, or subsequent 
to the donations ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And were you aware that the pii])li('ity related to con- 
tributions made bv all three co-ops? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I thought it was mostly AMPI. 

Mr. Weitz. Mostly or entirely? 



6429 

Mr. Jacobsex. Woll. I thoii^rlit it was all AMPI. But if you said it 
was related to the other two co-ops 

Mr. Wicrrz. Xo ; I am askino- for youi- knowledge. 

Mr. Jacobsex. OK. 

Mr. ^IcXelis. Can we cleai- up the record ? 

What did vou think it to he at the time ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I thouoht it related to AMPI. 

Mr. AVeitz. Only AMPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know of any other contributions in similar 
fashion to the committee in 1071 from the other two co-ops? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 1 did not know about that. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Connally aware of the publicity, adverse pub- 
licity in connection with those 1071 contributions? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I assume he was, I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. And do you know whether he was aAvare that the pub- 
licity was attributed to all three co-ops ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not know. And I am just assuming that that is 
the reason he did not want money from AMPI. 

:Mr. Weitz. You are aware that in 1972 both SPACE and ADEPT 
did contribute to Democrats for Nixon ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Weitz. But at the time those contributions were made, or any 
time in 1972, you were not aware that they had made contributions 
to nuiltiple committees in 1971 together wnth TAPE ? 

Mr. Jacobsex". I was not aware that they had been the subject of all 
the publicity. 

Mr. Weitz. Was any other reason given by Mr. Connally for not ac- 
cepting the $10,000 in 1972 ^ 

Mr. McNelis. Excuse me. This witness did not testify that Mr. 
Connally gave any reason at all. My understanding of his testimony, 
he supposed Mr. Connally did not want the money because of the 
publicity that was 

Mr. Jacobsex'. That is what I said. 

Ml'. Weitz. Mr. Connally gave you no reason ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No: ]Mr. Connally said he would just as soon not have 
any money from AoNIPI. 

Mr. Weitz. But there came a time when he was aware that contri- 
butions Avere going to be or were made by tlie other two co-ops? 

]\Ir. Jacobsex'. Sure. 

Mr. Weitz. And he did not raise objection to those ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. No. 

Mr. Weitz. And the conversation with Mr. Connally in connection — 
when you mentioned the $10,000 in 1972 — was anything else said be- 
tween you at that time ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. I do not recall, Mr. Weitz. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you have any other conversations with him about 
that money ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Or about A^NIPI, or contributions from AMPI. 

iSIr. Jacobsex'. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Have you ever handled or delivered to anyone cash in 
excess of $1,000 for political purposes or for some political campaign? 



6430 

Mv. Jacx)Bsex. Just the checks tlmt you had tliat Ave delivered to yon 
the first time we delivered you information, just those. 

Mr. Wettz. You said you gave Mr. Lilly checks, though, in both 
cases ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No; I am not talking about that. We delivered you 
some checks showing we made a contribution to a Democratic gala 

Mr. AVeitz. Eight. 

Mr. Jacobsen. And to Governor Preston Smith, or something like 
that. 

Mr. Weitz. Were these made in cash ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; they were made by check. 

Mr. Weitz. I am asking about amounts in excess of $1,000 or more, 
have you evei- delivered to anyone cash in excess of $1,000 for a politi- 
cal campaign or for political purposes? 

Mr. Jacop.sen. No, T have not. 

Mr. Weitz. Besides Mr. Lilly, has anyone connected w^ith AINIPI 
ever asked you for cash or for a contribution for political campaigns? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Ml-. Weitz. Did you have much contact with David Parr? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Frequent contact ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Frequent, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And what would be the nature of the contacts, for what 
purpose would you talk or meet with him ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Well, he was alwavs talking about various dairy 
problems and TAPE and just general problems relating to the co-op. 

Mv. Weitz. Do you know Tom Townsend ? 

INIr. Jacobsen. Yes : T have met Tom Townsend. 

Mr. Weitz. At one time he worked in Mr. Pai'i's office in Little 
Rock ; is that right ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever deliver any money in cash or otherwise, 
or whatever other form, to Mr. Parr for Wilbur Mills' campaign? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Have you ever met wnth Mr. Pan- in the Austin 
Airi)ort ? 

Mr. Ja(T)bsen. Yes ; I met with him. 

INIr. Weitz. Do you know how many times you met with him in the 
Austin Airport? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Several times. 

Mr. Weitz. Several times. Do you recall any meeting with him in 
1 070 in the Austin Airport ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And Avhat was the occasion foi- that? ITow manv meet- 
ings in 1970? 

Ml'. Jacobsen. T do not recall the number of meetings 

Mr. Weitz. jNIore than tM'o? 

Mr. Jacobsen. There may have been more than two. 

Mr. Weitz. What Avould be the reason for you meeting him in the 
Austin Airport? 

INfr. J.vcoiiSEN. WelL sometimes he would pick me up to go to San 
Antonio and sometimes — I know what you are talking about, T re- 
freshed my memory — yes, T delivered $5,000 to David Parr for Wilbur 
Mills. 



6431 

^Iv. Wkitz. And whou was that ? 

Ml*. Ja( onsKN. Tliat was in — T do not know. 

Mr. AVkitz. Can yon <i-ive ns the year '^ 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. $5,()0() in cash ? 

^fr. Jacohsex. Yes. 

INIr. Weitz. In an envelope ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. AVeitz. Who else was present ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I think jnst David Parr and myself. 

]Mr. Weitz. Was anyone else fi-oni AMPI. to yonr knowledge, at the 
ail-port even thon<rh they were not in place when yon oave ^Ir. Parr 
the money? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not know. There might have been somebody in 
the airplane, I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. But you recall just you and Mr. Parr being present 
when this exchange was being made ? 

!Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

INfr. Weitz. How did you come to give him that money ? 

]\l'r. Jacobsex. He asked for it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ask for it in cash ? 

Mv. Jacobsex. Yes. 

]Mr. Weitz. Did he say for Avhat purpose he wanted the money? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. He wanted it for Mr. Mills. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall when this took place ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. Can we place it by year ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, I really cannot. It was during Mr. Mills' Presi- 
dential ambitions. 

Mr. Weitz. So probably either lOTl or 1972, is that correct ? 

INIr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. It was in fact while Mr. Parr was still emploved by 
AMPI, is that correct? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

]\Ir. Weitz. And if I am not mistaken, Mr. Parr left the emplov of 
A^H^I early in 1972. So it is likely that it was in 1971 or early 1972? 
Does that refresh your recollection ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, it does not. 

Mr. McXelis. ]Mr. Weitz, I do not mean to suggest in any way how 
you should conduct your interrogation. The witness is here to tell you 
everything he knows about anything that you want to ask him about. 
We are covering (|uite a bit of ground. If you have anything there to 
show him or help him with a date, we would appreciate it. And maybe 
he can then be more definitive with his answers and tie things in. We 
will accept whatever document you have to help the gentleman. 

iNIr. Weitz. Do you recall any particular occasion that led to the 
request — in other words, was the request and the delivery of money 
made in conjunction with any particular ^•isit by Wilbur Mills to 
Texas ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, I do not think so. 

Mr. Weitz. It was just a general retjuest for $5,000 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Where did the $5,000 come from ? 



6432 

]Mr. Jacobsex, It came from my account. 
Mr. Weitz. Did you cash a check ? 
Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

JNIr. Weitz. Did it come from your funds solely, or from Mr. Long's 
funds ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Was this money drawn from the firm account or from 
one of your personal accounts ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I think it was drawn from the firm account. 
Mr. Weitz. From the firm account. Does it make any difference, 
then, if the $5,000 was drawn in one check on the firm's account or in 
separate checks pro rata accordintr to your firm split by you and also 
byMr. Lono;? 

INIr. Jacobsex. Yes, it would make a difference. 
Mr. Weitz. It would make a difference. How? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Well, if you made the check for $5,000 to me I would 
have drawn $5,000 out of the firm. 

]Mr. Weitz. Suppose the check was draw^n to cash, it would not have 
been done that way ? 
]\Ir. Jacobsen. No, it would not. 

Mr. Weitz. It would either have been to you or Mr. Long ? 
Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. McNelis. And if you have a check there we would be delighted 
to see it. Do you recall a check ? 

ISIr. Jacobsex. No, I do not remember the check. 

Mr. Weitz. Was this the only occasion when Mr. Parr or anyone 
else of AMPI asked you for money other than wdiat we have just had 
with Mr. Lilly? 
Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

]Mr. Weitz. Why did he make tlu^ request of you ? 
Mr. Jacobsen. Well, Mr. Mills needed money, and he wanted some- 
body to help him. And I w\as elected, I guess. 

Mr. Weitz. From the records we have, and from the checks you have 
• given us, we have two checks which — because of the endorsement or 
lack of endorsement — two sets of checks in the amount of $5,000. 
Perhaps you can help clear up — for 1071, I should say. 

Mr. Jacobsen. If I knew the date of the contribution to Mills I 
could help you clear it up, but I do not know the date of it. 
Mr. Weitz. Was it reported, to your knowledge ? 
INIr. Jacobsen. No, it was not reported. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Do you know whether in fact Mr. Parr gave the money 
to Mr. Mills? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. How do you know Mr. Parr did not pocket the money ? 
Mr. Jacobsex. I do not know that. 
Mr. Weitz. But you gave him the $5,000 ? 
Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 1 

Mr. Weitz. Did he give you a i-eceipt ? 
Mr. Ja( OBSEx. No. 

Mr. Weitz. I have here two checks. I^t me mark them exhibits 19 
and 20. 

[The checks referi-ed to weie marked Jacobsen exhibits Nos. 19 and 
20.*] 

*See p. 6495. 



6433 

Exhibit 19 is check No. 2229, February 15, 1971, to Joe R. Long, 
with what aj^pears to be Mr, Long's signature, or someone writing Mr. 
Ivong on tlie back, in the auiount of $2,250. And exhibit 20, check No. 
2280, the same date, for $2,750 to Jake Jacobsen. Is that your 
signature ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. AVeitz. Now, looking at these two checlcs, does that refresh 
your recollection as to whether or not those checks represent the $5,000 
delivered to Mr. Parr ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, it sure does not. I wish I could help you, but I 
cannot. I do not know the date of the contribution. 

Mr. AVeitz. The other set of checks we have for 1971 is dated Novem- 
ber 10. Let me mark those exhibits 21 and 22. 

[The checks referred to were marked Jacobsen exhibits Nos. 21 and 
22.*] 

Exhibit 21 is check No. 2710, again on the firm account, dated No- 
vember 10, 1971, to Jake Jacobsen for $2,750. Is that your signature on 
the back of endoi-sement i 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And exhibit No. 22, No. 2711, November 10, 1971, $2,250 
to Mr. Joe Long. Now, I show you both of these checks and ask you 
Mhether this refreshes your recollection as to whether these two checks 
represent the $5,000 to Mr. Parr? 

Mr, Jacobsex. No, it does not refresh my recollection. 

Mr. Weitz. It may, but you do not know ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. It may, but I do not know. 

Mr. McNelis. In all fairness, it may have been some other purposes 
too, particularly with reference to Mr. Long. 

'Mv. "Weitz. I invite you to look through your bank records and 
checks and so forth, to find whether you can locate the check or checks 
and transactions that would reflect this delivery of $5,000 to Mr. Parr, 
if you would do that, please. 

*Mr. McNelis. You leave me up in the air. The witness, if I under- 
stand his testimony correctly, admits that he got that $5,000 that he 
gave to Mr. Parr for Wilbur Mills. He delivered it at the airport. It 
was asked for in cash, and it was delivered, if I understand him cor- 
rectly, in cas^h. And he further goes on to say that whether or not his 
associate, Joe Ivong. contributed part of that he really does not know. 

Is that a fair resume of your testimony ? 

Mr. Jacobsex^. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. I am just asking him to review his records and see if he 
can refresh his recollection and produce any records in connection with 
tliat transaction. 

Mr. McNelis. I do think, in all fairness to everybody here concerned, 
I should state that I have reprCvSented Mr. Joe Long before the grand 
jury. And as you know, ]Mr. ^Morgan, my associate, is with Mr. Joe 
Long. INIr. Long is not too desirous to come to Washington, to be 
perfectly frank about it. But with respect to whether or not he partici- 
pated in this, I will be happy to call him on the phone and give you 
his answer to it if it will help you unravel this matter. 

Mr. Weitz. Off the record a minute. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

♦Seep. 6496. 



6434 

Mr. Weitz. Back on the record. 

Let me ask a question in that connection. Do you know how JSIr. 
Parr came to be at Austin airport that day ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. He came to pick up the money. 

Mr. Weitz. I understand that. ITow did he arrive ; how did he come? 
Did he come from Little Rock, do you know^ ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I think so. 

Mr. Weitz. In the Austin airport, is there a separate area for com- 
mercial aircraft as opposed to private aircraft? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. He taxied up to the part whei-e the commercial 
aircraft come in. 

Mr. Weitz. Was he in the company plane or some commercial plane ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. He w^as not in a commercial plane ; he was in a 
private plane. 

Mr. Weitz. He was in a pri\ ate ])lane. And you do not recall whether 
there was anyone else there with him ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No : I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Lilly there? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Long there ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Why don't we take this opportunity to look at a few 
remaining checks in 1971 that I w^anted to ask you about? 

Mr. Sanders. Have you finished with this? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Sanders. Let me ask a few questions on this aspect, and we will 
not have to come back to it. 

My questions relate to what you might remember of the circum- 
stances of Parr asking you to produce $5,000 for Mills. Do you remem- 
ber when he asked you and under what circumstances? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. x\11 I remember, ]Mr. Sanders, is that he asked 
me to get $5,000 for Mr. Mills if I would— if I could get $5,000 for 
Mr. Mills. And I said I could. 

Mr. Sanders. You do not remember where this occurred? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I think it was on the telephone. 

Mr. Sanders. Did he furnish you any other circumstances of the 
need that he had ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; he just said, "Mr. Mills needs $5,000 in his Presi- 
dential campaign." 

Mr. Sanders. Can you recall discussing this with Long to see if he 
wanted to share in the contribution you were going to make to Parr? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; I do not, Mr. Sanders. I do not remember discuss- 
ing it with Joe at all. 

Mr. Sanders. Did you bill AMPI in a w^ay to recover this money? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Sanders. Did you have any subsequent discussion with Parr 
about this $5,000 after the time when you delivered it to him ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir ; not that I i-ecall, Mr. Sanders. 

Mr. Sanders. At any time did vou provide to Parr anv other funds 
for Mills? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Sanders. Did you furnish to anyone else any money which it 
was indicated to you would be for the benefit of Wilbur Mills? 



6435 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, sir. 

INIr. Weitz. I want to cover a few tT'ansactions in 1971 and see if you 
can slied any lig:ht on those. 

First of all. we have discussed, I believe, tlie two checks in February 
1971, exhibits 19 and 20. 

!Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, sir. 

Mr. AVErrz. For a total of $5,000. Now, T have here— and T will mark 
them exhibit 23 — an invoice — I should say voucher or check No. 4419 
from AMPT to Jacobsen and Lonir, dated February 8, 1971, in the 
amount of $11,000. And on the same day, check No, 4420, which I will 
mark as exhibit 24, to Jacobsen and Long- for $5,636. First of all, with 
re<2:ard to exhibit 24. is that a copy of the Jacobsen and Long invoice? 

[The documents referred to were marked Jacobsen exhibits Nos. 23 
and 24.*] 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. Yes. 

]\Ir. Weitz. And do you know whether either of these payments were 
received by you as inclicated by the two checks, exhibits 23 and 24? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I assume they were received. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, do you have any explanation for why there were 
two different checks in tw^o amounts received made out for you on the 
same day? 

Mr. Jacobsex. The oidy explanation I have is that this is one of my 
billings, this billing here. 

]Mr. INIcNelis. A^Hien we say this billing, can we have the record, the 
vouchers which is attached to it? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Exhibit 24 is my billing. And probably exhibit 23 is 
one of Mr. Long's billings. 

i\Ir. Weitz. Did you submit separate billings ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Evidently. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, on exhibit 24, if you will notice, I think this a 
thiixl category, thei'e is a category for retainer 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. And expenses and professional services rendered in 
excess of the retainer. 

Mr. Weitz. What category of work does that cover ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Probably a speech or two — two speeches, probably. 

INIr. Weitz. I thought you indicated before that you normally would 
not bill that separately, that would be covered in your retainer, a 
speech or speeches. 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. What I said is I w^ould also bill that with the re- 
tainer as excess. 

Mr. Weitz. How would you compute the billing for these speeches, 
for example ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I generally charged about $1,500 a speech. 

Mr. Weitz. On the average, how many hours would that take of 
your time ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. It would take probably 2 or 3 days, or a couple of 
days, because I would have to fly to the place and make my speech 
and then fly back. 

Mr. Wi:iTz. Generally, you charged $1,500 a speech ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Around $1,500 a speech. 

Mr. Weitz. How manv speeches would you estimate during the first 
several months of 1971 did vou make for AMPI ? 



•See pp. 6497 and 6498. 



6436 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not really have any idea. 

Mr. Weitz. More than one a month 'i 

Mr. Jacobsen. Much more than one a month. 

Mr. Weitz. Five a month ? 

Mr. Jacxjbsen. Maybe hve a month, 

Mr. WErrz. And that would be what, $7,500 a month, if it was $1,500 
a speech ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Sometimes I charged less if it took me less time to get 
to the place. 

Mr. McNelis. The question is: Did you ever charge more than 
$1,500? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I do not think so. 

Mr. Weitz. So throughout 1971 invoices, or at any time, any invoices 
on which you merely described as professional services rendered in 
excess of the amount covered by the retainer, that would represent 
speeches ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. It would probably i-e{)resent speeches, or it could 
represent the trip I made to "Washington for them, or something, some- 
thing in excess of the retainer. 

Mr. Weitz. But which was not billed separately for a particular 
matter 'i 

Mr. Jacobsen. Correct. 

Mr. Weitz. And which was not covered — did you do any work with 
them for which you did not bill in addition to the retainer itself? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, I did a lot of little things for them that I figure 
the retainer covered. 

Mr. Weitz. Did anyone at AMPI ever discuss your billings with 
you and question any particular billing or fees? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did vou ever submit expense accounts oi- ex])ense reports 
to them? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Jacobsen. I have given tliem iletailed expenses on my last bill- 
ing, for example, I gave them the details. 

Mr. Weitz. But before January of 1972, do you recall whetlier you 
gave them any ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I do not think so. 

Mr. Weitz. You did not. And did anyone ever question any of the 
bills tliat cauie in, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. Tliis was a good client. 

Mr. Weitz. I have marked for identification exhibit 25, which is a 
check on your firm account, check No. 2715, dated November 10, 1971, 
to Jake Jacobsen in the amount of $30,000. And on the back it does 
say, "For deposit only, Joe K. Long," and it has some explanation. 
Do you know of that check or know^ of the transaction represented 
by that check ? 

[The document referred to was marked Jacol)sen exhibit No. 25.*] 

Ml-. Jacobsen. No, I do not, only what is written on the front of 
the check here. 

Mr. Weitz. Why don't you read that for the record ? 

*See p. 6500. 



6437 



r. Jacobsen. It says, "the balanco 1970 income from SWJ," which 
'mer, "White and jacobsen, "i)ait 1971 income, Semer, White and 



Mr, 

is Semei 

Jacobsen, withdrawal from Jacobsen and Long." 

Mr. Weitz. The nature of the check, as you described it before, if 
a check is made out to you on the firm account that is against your 
draw? 

Mr, Jacobsen. That is correct. 

Mr. "Weitz. And on the back if it is deposited by Joe K. Long, does 
that indicate that it went not into your account, but Mr. Long's^ 

Mr. Jacobsen. This check went into Mr. Long's account. 

Mr. Weitz. And you do not recall anything in connection with that 
transaction ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Xo, I sure do not. 

Mr. McXelis. On the back of it I note that there is a specific account 
number recorded. And I do think, with the information we have sent 
you, we could determine rather (juickly that that is one of Joe Long's 
accounts. You have them here. 

Mr. Weitz. AVere similar billings with amounts labeled as profes- 
sional services rendered in excess of retainer made to your recollection, 
throughout 1971, for example, or from time to time ^ 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. WErrz. And would it refresh your recollection in any way as 
to any particular transactions or sei'vices or speeches rendered on 
behalf of AMPI to look at any of those other billings with that type 
of categorization ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Xo. You will find listed in this client sheet the 
speeches I made. 

Mr. AVeitz. I would like to turn to 1972 with you. In either late 
1971 or early 1972, did you have an occasion to discuss with Mr. Nelson 
the matter of political contiibutions to the President's reelection? 

Mr. Jacobsen. AVell. Mr. Xelson was desirous of making a substan- 
tial contribution to the Xixon reelection campaign. lie wanted to 
make one. And since the first contribution turned out to be such a 
mess — I say first, the donation to all those little committees — he wanted 
to find a new way to give the money. And I got in touch with Mr. 
Kalmbach and arranged for a meeting between Xelson and Kalmbach 
where we could discuss with Mr. Kalmbach how to give money with- 
out getting into the mess we got into before. 

Mr. AA'eitz. Xow, let me ask you this. AA^hen he discussed — when 
he, Mr. Xelson, discussed with you the matter of additional contribu- 
tions and perhaps a new way of doing so, did he discuss how much had 
been in fact contributed in 1971 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Xo, he did not. 

Mr. AA^eitz. AA'^as that not relevant to a contribution ? 

Let me ask you this. Did he say how much, in addition, he was 
interested in contributing? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Xo, just a substantial amount of money. 

Mr. AA^eitz. AA'^hat did you understand him to mean by that ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I assume $500,000. 

Mr. AA^EiTz. And your iindei'standing was not based on any par- 
ticular facts he gave you as to how much they had contributed or 
how much in total amount he expected to contribute ? 

Mr, Jacobsen. Xo, he did not get into that. 



6438 

Mr. Wkitz. Did anyone else discuss that with you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ask you to contact Mr. Kahnbach ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. He asked me to find out a way to do it better than 
they had been doing it, and I contacted Mr. Kahnbach. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you tell him you were going to do so ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you call Mr. Kahnbach or meet w ith him '^ 

Mr. Jac;obsen. No. I called him hrst and told him I represented the 
dairy people, AMPl, and I understood that he was handling contri- 
butions for the President, and asked him if we could meet with him 
to discuss the possibility of making a substantial contribution. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you indicate that they had already made a sub- 
stantial contribution the previous year ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that not relevant; — does that not put you in some- 
what of a difference stance, if you talked to a fundraiser and indicate 
that you have already made substantial contributions^ It certainly 
puts you in a different position. 

Mr. Jacobsen. I assume Mr. Kahnbach knew what these people 
had given. 

Mr. Weitz. Would you not want to know as much as you could from 
Mr. Kahnbach what your client had contributed before you talked 
to him? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, not necessarily. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know that they contributed more than $10,000 
in 1971 to the President's reelection campaign ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I read in the paper where they had contributed 
$200,000 and some. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you confirm tliat with Mr. Nelson ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. I assumed that it was correct. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss the publicity in the newspaper articles 
that were written ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he deny that that amount had been given ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss either the truth or the falsity of any 
particular aspect of the articles ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. McNelis. In all fairness to Mi*. Nelson, I do not know him from 
Adam, but did he affii-m that that much was given or deny it? 

Mr. Jacobsen. He did not affirm or deny it. 

Mr. Weitz. That is what I was getting at, did you discuss either the 
truth or falsity of any aspect of the newspaper articles? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Nelson's concern, though, was with the publicity 
itself? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. What did Mr. Kalmbach say to you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Mr. Kalmbach said he would be glad to see us. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ask you how much they intended to contribute? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No; I just said a substantial amount. 

Mr. Weitz. Reasonable men might differ on the amount of substan- 
tiality. Did you indicate it would be several hundred thousand dollars? 



6439 

Mr. Jacobskx. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Weitz. And lie did not ask yon? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. t^- i 

Mr. ^yvATZ. Uj) to that tinio, ^vhat had been the bi^^rest political con- 
tribntion yon had ever an-an<red for. if yon had arrano-ed for any pohti- 
cal contribntions ? 

Mr. McNelis. Jnst a moment. 

Mr. Weitz. Have yon ever arranged for any pobtical contribntions 
before Jannary of 1972? 

Mr. Jacobsex. For President Johnson. 

Mr. Weitz. Up to Jannary of 1072 what was the hirgfest contribntion 
yon ever made arrangements for ;' 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did yon arrano-e a meeting with Mr. Kahnbach? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And that was set for when, for what time? 

Mr. Jacobsex. It was set for Jannary, the first Friday after Jann- 
ary 13 in 1972. 

Mr. Weitz. How can von be so specific ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Because the i;')th was when :Mr. Nelson was deposed 
as general manager of AMPI. 

Mr. Weitz. Did yon attend the board meeting in which Mr. Nelson 
was deposed? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, sir. 

]\Ir. Weitz. How soon thereafter — do yon know what day of the 
week January 18. 1972. was? 

Mr. Dorsex. The 18tli was a Tliursday. 

Mr. McNelis. That was a Thursday. It was the second full week 
of the month. 

Mr. Weitz. So yon met Avith Mr. Kahnbach the very next day after 
Mr. Nelson was deposed ? 

]\Ir. Jacobsex'. Yes, sir ; I guess so. 

Mr. Weitz, How are yon sure of the date of tlie 13th? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Because it is in my mind. 

Mr. Weitz. Where did you meet with Mr. Kahnbach? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. In his office in Los Angeles — no, I did not, we met at 
the California Clnb. 

Mr. Weitz. You went directly to the California Club and not to his 
office first? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. We went directly to the California Club and not to 
his office first ? 

Mr. Weitz. Who Avas present at the meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Mr. Kahnbach, ]\Ir. Nelson and myself. 

Mr. Weitz. Did yon introduce Mr. Nelson and Mr. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they seem to appear to know each other? 

]Mr. Jacobsex'. I do not remembei-. Mr. Weitz. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Nelson ever indicate to yon before that meeting 
that he knew ^Ir. Kahnbach or had met him ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. He never did. 

Mr. Wi:iTz. Is that the first time you had ever met Mr. Kalmbach? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. What was discussed at the meeting ? 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 5 



6440 

Mr. Jacobsen. Well, the discussion was that Mr. Nelson said that 
he wanted to make a substantial contribution to the President's cam- 
paign. First of all, he told him he had been deposed as general man- 
ager, thercfo)-e, he was in a different capacity when we made the ap- 
pointment than when he had the meeting. 

Mr. McNelis, Ma}'^ I ask a question ? 

AVas the fact that he was deposed fix the date, whatever date that 
was? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. MoNeeis. OK. Go ahead. 

Mr. Jacobsex. And he said that the dairy people wanted to make a 
substantial contribution to the President's reelection campaign, he 
could not say how much because he was not general manager any 
more, but he knew that they wanted to make a substantial contribution. 

And Mr. Kalmbacli discussed the possibility of getting a contribu- 
tion, and whetlier or not he wanted a contribution from AINIPI, and 
just general discussion. 

JNIr. WErrz. IJetween the time Mr. Nelson was deposed and the meet- 
ing with Mr. Kalmbacli, did you and Mr. Nelson discuss the possibility 
of not going ahead with the meeting? 

ISIr. Jacobsen. Yes, we did. 

Mr. WErrz. What was the nature of that conversation? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Actually, I did not — let me say this. Actually, I did 
not know Mr. Nelson was deposed until I got on the plane with him to 
go to California. So he said that he had thought about calling off the 
trip, but that he talked to Dr. jNIehren, and Dr. Mehren had suggested 
that he go on the trip. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, at the meeting with Mr. Kalmbacli when Mr. 
Nelson said ho was deposed, and so forth, what was Mr. Kalmbach's 
response ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. He was very pleasant. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there any specific mention of amounts or com- 
mittees ? 

Mr. Jacobsex, No. 

]Mr. Wei'j z. Any mention of commitments or amounts that had been 
discussed previously ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Was the figure $1 million mentioned? 

INIr. Jacobsex. I do not think so. 

Mr. WErrz. You do not think so ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not think so. 

INIr. Weitz. Was a figure of $2 million mentioned ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not think so. I do not think Nelson mentioned any 
figures at all. 

Mr. Weitz. How about you ? 

Mr. Jac'obsen. 1 did not, no. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Kalmbacli ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I do not think so. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you ])resent with Mv. Kalmbacli and Mr. Nelson 
for the entire meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsex^ Yes, we ate breakfast. And we talked about mostly 
things other than money. We talked about just general jiolitics. 

Mr. Weitz. And Avhat was your discussion with regard to money? 



6441 

Mr. Jacobsex. Just that tlie dairy people wanted to make a substan- 
tial contribution. 

Mr. WErrz. I would like to read you from your deposition on No- 
vem])er T, 197-5, in Ndder v. Jhitz and see whether this refreshes your 
recollection. 

This says — the question is as follows: "I am goino- to read to you 
from the memorandum which we did get from the White House" 

Mr. McNelis. May I ask who is talking i 

Mr. Weepz. This is the questioner, Mr! Dobrovir : 

I am goinj; to read to you from the memoramliim which we did set from the 
White Ilouse. I do not have the memorandum in front (tf me. We were only sup- 
plied with one page or two. 

I will read it, and then! will show it to you. It says: 

Kahnhach is very concerned about his involvement in the milk producers situa- 
tion. He believes that Jacobsen and Nelson will deliver, though they have cut 
the original .$2,000 commitment back to $1,000. Kalmbach's concern centers 
around the recent press disclosures that link Jack Gleason in the 1970 campaign 
election funding. Kalmbach will accept the risk of being subpoenaed by the 
court in connection with the Nader milk suit. The Attorney General believes 
Kalmbach should continue to handle the milk project, but Kalmbach wants your 
advice. 

And then on the same page — this is pages 43 and 44 of the deposi- 
tion — he goes on to read from another memo whicli indicates that 
thousands really meant millions in terms of White House 
memorandum. 

And he goes on to say, this was a memoi-andum written by Gordon 
Strachan to H. K. Haldeman on February 1, 1972. Now, that, according 
to your testimony, would be approximately li weeks after your meet- 
ing with Nelson and Kalmbach. 

Does that refresh your recollection as to the discussion of what took 
place at that meeting I 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. I think that ]\Ir. Kalmbach might have gotten 
some sort of impression about — first of all, I know he got the impres- 
sion that we wanted to be helpful. But insofar as amounts are con- 
cerned, I remember Nelson did not talk al)out amounts because he did 
not have authority to. 

Mr. Weepz. I understand, in other words, he had been deposed, and 
Dr. Afehren was then head of the AMPI, so he had no final autliority ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. That is I'ight. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he not, though, discuss amounts which he hoped 
they would contribute nonetheless? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. I do not think he did. I think he was very care- 
ful not to try to commit Dr. Mehren. 

Mr. WErrz. What about between the time of that meeting Avith Mr. 
Kalmbach and February 1, 1972? Did you have any further conver- 
sations witli Mr. Kalmbach, or do you know whether Mr. Nelson did? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I do not. 

Mr. McNelis. Let us start with No. 1. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you have any further conversations? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I don't believe I did — yes, I did, to make an ap- 
poi' (ment for Dr. Mehren and Nelson. 

Mr. Weitz. For a second meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And when did that meeting take j)lace ? 



6442 

Mr. elAcoBSEN. February 3, 1 tliink. 

Mr. Weitz. 1972 ? 

Mr. Jacorsen. Yes. 

Mr. AVeitz. So between the time of the first meeting between you 
and Kalmbacli and Nelson and tlie second meeting, which included 
Dr. Mehren, which you remember to be February 8, li)72, the only 
conversation you know of between any of those three gentlemen and 
Mr. Kalmbacli is your call to Mr. Kalmbacli to set up the date of the 
meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And in that telephone conversation, did you discuss 
anything else other than just the mechanics of setting up the time and 
place ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, other than the fact that Dr Mehren was the new 
general manager, and if we were going to do anything at all, Dr. 
Mehren had to get in the act. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss the matter with Dr. Mehren between 
the first and seconcl meeting with Mr. Kalmbacli? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz, And what did you tell him ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I told him about the appointment. 

Mr. Wei'iz. Did you make any recommendations with regard to 
political contributions? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I recommended that they make a substantial contri- 
bution. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ask how^ much ? 

jVIr. Jacobsen. No. 

]Mr. Weitz. Did you tell him how much ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. What was his response to your suggestion ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. He wasn't too excited about it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ever ask you whether a commitment had been 
made to the Eepublicans the previous year ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, he didn't ask me. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ask you whether any commitment had been made 
at any time to Republicans or Republican fundraisers? 

Mr. McNells. Who do you mean by "lie" ? 

Mr. Weitz. Dr. Mehren. 

Ml-. Jacobsen. No. I don't think he did. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether he asked Mr. Nelson or anyone 
else about an}' such commitments? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you and Mr. Nelson discuss the possibility of Dr. 
Mehren agreeing to a contribution to the Republican Party or to the 
President? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. I gather INIr. Nelson was in favor of a contribution, 
certainly from the time before he was deposed as head of the AMPI? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And you were in favor of such a contribution ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. But you did not discuss with each other the possibility 
of whether Dr. Mehren would agree to such a contribution, is that 
what vou are telline; us ? 



6443 

Mr. Jacobsen. "We know Dr. Moliroii liad considerable doubt about 
making a contril)ution. 

^Iv. "WKrrz. But you didn't discuss between the tAvo of you the likeli- 
hood of his makino- a contribution, a<ii'eein<r to a contribution? 

^fr. Ja(C)i?skx. No. I doji't tliink so. 

Mr. Weitz. On i)ao,e 45 of the same deposition, you state, in re- 
sponse to a question about whether oi- not a coinmitnient existed, or 
Avhether or not specific amounts were mentioned : 

"We said we Avanted to fret help for the Eepublicans, all of the 
money we could <,^et for them." 

Did you tell Mi-. Kalmbach that ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. AVeitz. How much money did you think that was? 

]\ri". Jacobsex. I didn't know. I was thinkino- in terms of $500,000. 
I don't know wliy tliat hauire stuck in my mind. 

Ml'. WErrz. Was tliat half a million dollar commitment for the pre- 
vious 3'ear i 

]Mr. Jacobsex. Xo. 

Mr. Weefz. Did you communicate that to Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo. T didn't. I didn't feel like T was in a position to. 

Mr. McXelis. May I ask a (juestiou ? 

Did you ever mention a specific amount of money in your conversa- 
tion with Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo. T never did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did anyone at the meetino; which you attended? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo. 

]Mr. Weei-z. Who was present at the second ineetin<x? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Dr. Mehren, Mr. Xelson. ]Mr. Kalmbach, Mr. De 
Marco, and myself, I believe all of them were present. 

Mr. AVeefz. Mr. DeMarco is the pai-tner of Mr. Kalmbach? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was a Mr. Olson of his office also present ? 

yiv. Jacobsex. There mi<xht have been another person from his of- 
fice present. 

Mr. Weitz. And this to the V)est of vour recollection was February 
3, 1972 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I believe that is rio;ht. 

]\rr. Weitz. Where did tlie meetinn; take place ? 

]\rr. Jacobsex. Well, it took place in Mv. Kalmbach's office in Los 
Ano'eles. 

Mr. Weitz. Did tlie eiitiie meetino- take place there ? 

]\Ir. Jacobsex'. Xo. we went to lunch at some club. I don't remember 
the name of tlie club. 

Mr. Weitz. When the meetino^ began, what was discussed with re- 
gard to contributions? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Well, I don't remember who started the discussions 
or who said what to whom. But my recollection is that Mr. Kalmbach 
said. "I understand you would want to make a substantial contribu- 
tion to the reelection of the President," and we just started talking 
about how the contribution would be made. 

]Mr. Weitz. Did anvone say what magnitude the contribution would 
be? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. Or how much the contribution would be ? 



6444 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, there was never any decision about amounts. 

Mr. Wkttz. Did anyone raise a liypothetical amount that would be 
contributed ? 

Mi: Jacohskn. Xo. Tlie only tliinof that was discussed was that part 
of tliem would come in before April 7 — is that tlie key date? 

Mv. Weitz. Do you recall tliat from tlie meetino;? 

Mr. Jacobsex, Yes. And part of it would come in after April 7. 

Mr. Weitz. What part before and what part after? 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. I don't remember. 

Mr. Weitz. One would come before April 7 and one after, is that 
your recollection. 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo. there were several before April 7 and one after, 
is my best recollection. 

Mr, Weitz. Was it Mr. Kalmbach who was making the discussion or 
discussions in those terms? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, I think so. 

Mr, Weitz. Didn't he, in fact, say that if a contribution was made 
it could be made one-third, one-third, and one-fourth before April 7 
and the remaider after April 7 ? 

Does that refresh your recollection ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Somethino; like that. I don't remember tlie exact 
figure. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. DeMarco or the other gentleman from his firm 
say anytliing about that ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't recall, Mr. Weitz. 

Mr. Weitz, What was your response? What did vou say in response 
to that? 

]\fr. Jacobsex. I said that sounded fine to me. 

Mr. Weitz. Did that, to your wav of thinking, take care of the 
]n-oblem that had arisen with regard to the 1071 contributions and 
Avhich led to your contactiuir Mi-. Kalmbach in 1972? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No; it took care of it only to the extent that the con- 
tribution would be made in one bulk amount rather than to a series of 
small nonexistent committees. 

Mr. Weitz, But in several pieces 

Mr. Jacobsex. Several pieces. 

Mr. Weitz. I^ut only three, perhaps, before April 7? 

Mr. JAcoBSEx^ But in bigger auiounts. T think Mr, Kalmbach had 
in mind that the contributions before April 7 wouldn't have to be re- 
ported but TAPE would have had to have reported that, 

Mr. Weitz. If you were talking about — if substantial amounts were 
contemplated, even breaking it down into four parts, it was likely that 
more than $20,000 would be contributed, or contemplated, was it not? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. So more than $5,000 at each stage would l)e contributed? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And for the year 1972, or certainly after April 7, more 
than $5,000 would have been contributed for the President's re-elec- 
tion ? 

INIr, Jacobsex, Yes. 

]\fr. Weitz, Was there anv discussion as to what form the contribu- 
tion would take other than the bulk amount, and so forth ? 

Mv. Jacobsex^. No, 

Mr. Weitz. Was there anv discussion that it would be made in cash? 



6445 

^Iv. Jacobskx. No. 

Mr. Wr.iTz. Or by chock ? 

Mr. Jacobskx. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. There Avas no discussion eithoi- way? 

INfi-. Jacorskx. No discussion. 

^h: Wkitz. What was Di-. Mehivn's ivsponse to ]Mr. Kabnbach's 
sniriicstion ? 

Mr. Jacobskx. Dr. Melu-en was very nonconnnittaL 

Mr. WKrrz. Wliat (bd lie say ( 

Mr. Jacobskx. T (U)n*t leineinber. 

]\rr. "\VKrrz. Von mean he (bd not make a connnitment at that time? 

Mr. Jacobskx. Oh, no. 

Ml'. "Weitz. Jiut did he respond in some way to the sntigjestions that 
conti'ibutions. if tliey were <join<>: to be made, could be made or should 
be made in that fashion? 

Mr. Jacobskx. No. He said he would thiidv about it. 

Mr. Wkitz. Did he ask Mi-. Ivalmbach why he was in the business of 
fuiulraisiuiT ^ 

Mr. Jacobskx. He asked him at lunch. 

Mr. AVeitz. He asked liiui at lunch ? 

^fr. Jacobskx. Yes. 

]Mr. AYeitz. And what was Mi*. Kalmbaclrs response? 

Mr. Jacobsex. To help the President. 

Mr. AYeitz. Either at the tii'st i)art of the meetino- or at lunch, didn't 
Dr. ]\[elu-en ask Mr. Kalmbach why he wanted to i)ut them throufi:h 
anothei- bloodbath by havino- contributions in sevei'al sta<;es before 
April 7? ' 

Mr. Jacobsex. If he did, I didn't heai- it. He mioht have done it at 
lunch. They were sittinir at a round table, and I may not have heard 
what they said. 

Ml". AA'eitz. It was then at the meetinji; in Mi'. Kalml)ach's firm 
beforehand, thou<'h '( 

Mr. Jacobsex'. T don't believe so. 

Air. AA^EiTz. AA^hat was Mr. Nelson's response at the meetino-? 

Mr. Jacobsex. He didn't say anythin<r or speak up. 

Afr. AVeefz. AA'as there any other discussion with rei>ar(i to contri- 
butions? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Air. AA'^Errz. At this meeting or at lunch ? 

Air. Jacobsex'. No. 

Air. AYErrz. AA^as the matter of the lawsuit Nader v. Bafz discussed 
at the meeting or at lunch 1 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; not that I know of. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss it with Mr. Nelson, apart from the 
meetino^ ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I did at one time or another. I knew about the laAv- 
suit; 3'es. 

Mr. AA'^EiTZ. AAHiat was the nature of those conversations? 

Mr. Jacobsex*. Just that they told me Nader Avas suino; over the 
increase in price support. 

Mr. AAVjtz. Did Mr. Nelson ever explain to you anythino- in con- 
nection with the price-suppoi-t decision in this conversation in con- 
nection with the lawsuit ? 



6446 

Mr. Jacobsen. All he said was that there was never a commitment 
to do anythina". 

Mr. Weitz. Yon say at the meeting Mr. Kalmbach had made the 
suggestion of contributions in stages, bulk stages before April 7, 
and some smaller contributions after April 7? 

Mr. MgNelis. Excuse me. With respect to smaller, that is my little 
issue. I understood the testimony to be, there would be parts paid 
before and parts after, rather than any 

Mr. Jaoobsex. That was your testimony. 

INIi". Weitz. You thought you said there may have been a discussion 
of a third, a third and a quarter before April 7. 

Mr. Jacobsen. There may have been. 

Mr. Weitz. That would have left a smaller proportion of the 100- 
percent contribution after April 7. 

Mr. Jacobsen. It may have been. 

Mr. Weitz. Can you tell us why you understood Mr. Kalmbach to 
have made that suggestion as to the significance of pre-April 7 versus 
post- April 7 contributions? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I think he was thinking in terms of reporting that 
the contributions made prior to April 7 wouldn't have to be reported. 

Mr. WiHTz. Do you know what he based that understanding on? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No; I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Did it have anything to do with the fact that he had 
received $100,000 in 1969 from the dairy people which he didn't want 
reported ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I don't think so. I don't know, ]Mr. Weitz. 

]Mr. DoRSEN. If I may, do you recall whether the con\ersation was 
such that it was contemplated that a larger proportion of the gift 
would be made i:>rior to April 7 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, that is my best recollection, that the larger por- 
tion would be made prior to April 7. 

Mr. DoRSRN. Since the whole assumption regarding the April 7 
day on Mr. Kalmbach's part was that that portion would not have to 
be reported, did anyone mention to him that it was the anticipation 
of TAPE that they would report all contiibutions? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

]\fr. DoRSEN. If the contributions were reported, wouldn't you run 
into the same problem that was run into in 1971 ? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. No; I don't think so. because in 1972 you remember 
they gave to a series of nonexistent committees, and that was really the 
problem. 

jNIr. DoRSKN. It was anticipated that they would give through a series 
of committees that were in existence at this time ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. They would be in existence, and they would be opera- 
tive committees, and they would not create the problem. 

yiv. DoRSEN. It was clear by the early part of 1972 that tlie campaign 
was, of course, Avell underway, and that committees had been formed 
for the pur])ose of receiving conti'ibutions: isn't that correct? 

jNIr. Jacobsen. Repeat your question. I am sorry- 
Mr. DoRSEN. Was it your understanding that the leason — I am re- 
phrasing it, actually — was it your understanding that the reason 
for the problems in 1971 was that the cam]:)aign was not sufficiently 
far along that enough committees had been formed to receive the milk 
contributions? 



6447 
Mr. Jacobsen, I am not sure that — voii say was that my understand- 



]\[r. DoKSF.x. Your und(M'standiii<:- of tlic problem as to why the com- 
mittee had been nonexistent, was tliat it was so. just so eai'ly in the cam- 
pa igrn that the committees had not been formed 'i 

Mr. Jacobsex. Probably so. 

Mr. DoRSEN. And this would presumably not be a problem in 1972? 

Mr. Jacobsen. That is correct. 

]Mr. DoRSEX. Am I correct, then, that it was not necessary to see Mr. 
Kalmbach. in order to find or locate committees that were in existence? 

JNfr. Jacobsex. No. ^Nlr. Kalmbach was the fundraiser as I recall. 

Mr. DoRSEX'. But couldn't checks have been mailed in — couldn't the 
Finance Committee To Ke-Elect headquarters be called, and a list of 
committees obtained, and checks made out to those committees ? 

]\rr. ,rAC0BSEx\ 1 suppose so. 

Mr. DoRSEX. What I am getting at. what was that that Mr. Kalm- 
bach contributed to the solution of AMPI's problems ? 

Mr. Jacobsex^. He was in charge of the Committee To Re-Elect the 
President raising the money. 

]\f r. DoRSEX'. And he wanted to make sure that the person in charge of 
it was the one with whom KMVl or TAPE dealt? 

INIr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

jNlr. DoRSEX. Was this so that there would be maximum exposure and 
knowledge of the contribution ? 

jNIr. Jacobsex. I think the problem was that AMPI didn't know" who 
to deal with besides ]Mi'. Kalmbach. 

]\[r. Dorsex. So that Mr. Kalmbach was clearly the ]na jor fundraiser 
on behalf of the President's reelection ? 

INIr. Jacobsex\ Yes. 

]\Ir. Weitz. How did you know that it was Mr. Kalmbach with whom 
they should deal ? What about Mr. Stans? 

Mr. ]McXelis. In the chronology of events as he would understand 
it. Mr. Stans did not come on board until a certain date, and Kalmbach 
at one time was here and head of it, as I referred to it. until Stans came 
on board. 

]Mr. Weitz. Mr. Jacobsen, did you know that ]Mr. Kalmbach ever held 
an official position in the Committee To Re-Elect the President? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, I think he did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know what he did ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Ilead of the Finance Committee To Re-Elect. I think. 

]\fr. DoRSEX'. That is your understanding. T assume? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. That is my understanding. Maybe he didn't. 

]\rr. DoRSEX'. But you were operating on the assumption that he was 
in fact the head of the Finance Committee To Re-Elect the President? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. That is right. 

Air. Weitz. Was there anything else about the second meeting that 
related to campaign contributions ? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. Xot that I remember. 

]Mr. Weitz. Ts there anything else that took place at that meeting 
that related to any substantive problems or governmental programs in- 
volving AMPI or the milk producers? 

INIr. Jacobsex. Mr. Weitz, I don't remember. I think Dr. Mehren, at 
lunch, mentioned substantial problems that the dairy people were 
having. 



6448 

Mr, Weitz. Did he refer to the antitrust suit that had just been, filed 
against AMPI? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, I am sure he did.\ 

jMr. Weitz. xVnd what did he say aboiit it ? 

Mv. Jacobsen. Well, he said that the Government wasn't treating 
them very good, or this administration wasn't treating them very good. 
And he mentiojied the reasons why. 

JMr. WErrz. Was there anything else other than the antitrust suit 
that you recall he mentioned ? 

]\Ir. Jacobsen. No, I don't recall specifically what he mentioned. 

]Mr. Weitz. But at least you do recall that he referred to the anti- 
trust suit? 

Mr. Jacobsen. And some other problems. 

Mr. AVeitz. Did he refer to an IRS investigation of.MPI or AJNIPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't think so. 

]Mr. AYeitz. AVhat did he say with regard to the antitrust suits? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't know. I don't recall. 

jNIr. AYeitz. AVhat did Mr. Kalmbach say ? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. JMr. Kalmbach was sympathetic with it. 

Air. AA^EiTz. At that time or any subsequent time, or even before that 
meeting, did Dr. Alehren ever indicate to you that he hoped that the 
contnl)utions, if they were to be made, subsequent contributions would 
help to alleviate their problems with regard to the antitrust suit? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I think he did. 

Mr. AYeitz. AYhen was that, do you recall ? 

JMr. Jacobsen. No, I don't. 

JMr. AYeitz. AA^as this in a private con\ersation with you ? 

JMr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. AYeitz. AYas Mr. Nelson present ? 

JMr. Jacobsen. I don't know. 

Mr. AYeitz. Did he ever indicate why that was his hope? Did he 
base it on any contacts or discussions he had with anyone else? 

JMr. Jacobsen. No, not that I know of. 

Mr. AYeitz. It was just his hope? 

JMr. Jacobsen. It was his hope. 

JMr. AA'^EiTz. Did you communicate that to anyone else ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I did not. And he was very uncertain about 
whether he Avanted to make a contribution, in view of the antitrust 
suit. He didn't want to be giving his money to a party that had filed 
suit against him. 

Mr. AYeitz. Did he tell that to Mr. Kalmbach ? 

JMr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. AYeitz. Tliat he didn't want to give any money 

JMr. Jacobsen. He said he was uncertain as to whether or not he 
wanted to give any money. 

Mr. AA^EiTz. Because of the antitrust suit ? 

JMr. Jacobsen. That is one of the things. 

Air. Weitz. Did he mention any others that you can recall ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

JMr. AYeitz. Did he mention others that you can't recall ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes; he did mention others that I can't recall. 

Mr. AA^EiTz. Do you recall with any specificity what AIi-. Kalmbach 
said in response to that ? 



6449 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. Mr. Kalmbach was just sympathetic, and that is 
all. He didn't say anything. He didn't say he would get the suits 
dismissed. 

Mr. AA^EiTz. Did he say he would hope that maybe the matter could 
be resohed somehow ^ 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't recall him saying that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate that lie would take any action? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, he did not. 

Mr. AVeitz. Did he indicate that he would talk to anyone about the 
antitrust suit? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't recall. 

Mr. AVeitz. AVas there anything else that was discussed at the meet- 
ing with regard to either political contributions or governmental pol- 
icies ali'ecting the dairy industry ? 

yir. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Dash. Have you tixed the date ? 

Mr. AA'eitz. February 3, 1972. 

^Ir. Jacobsen. Are you taking that from me ? 

ilr. AA^Errz. That is what you have testified to. 

Mr. Jacobsen. But you got it from somebody else, too, I hope. 

]Mr. AA^EiTZ. AA"e won't dispute your word today. 

]\Ir. Jacobsen. OK, that is good. 

Mr. McNelis. Are we fixed on the date, then ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I thought it w^as February 8, 1972. 

]Mr. AA^EiTz. After that meeting, did you ha\e subsequent discussions 
with ]Mr. Nelson and/or Dr. ]Mehren concerning making a contribu- 
tion from TAPE to the Republicans and President Nixon? 

Mr. Jacobsen. 1 am sure 1 did. 

]Mr. AA^EiTz. Did you continue to counsel in favor of such a contri- 
bution ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, I did. 

Mr. AA^EiTz. AA^as ISIr. Nelson in agreement that a contribution should 
be made ? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

]Mr. AA'^EiTz. AA^as Dr. INIehren in agreement ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. AVeitz. AVas he against a contribution? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. AA^EiTz. Did he communicate liis decision to anyone? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No 

Mr. AA^EiTz. Other than the two of you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. He just kept telling us, he didn't think he wanted 
to give his money to tlie liepublicans. 

Mr. AA^EiTz. Did he ever comnnmicate that to any Republican fund- 
raisers or anyone coimected with the administration? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Not that I know. He may have. I don't know who 
he was talking to. 

]Mr. Wfatz. AA^ere you in contact with ]\ri-. Kalmbach after the Feb- 
ruary meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, I talked to him several times on the telephone. 

Mr. AAV.iTz. Did he call you or did you call him? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. I don't remember. 



6450 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. Kahiibaeh was in contact 
directly with Dr. Mehren after the February meeting other than 
before a subsequent meeting? 

Mr. Jacobskx. No, T don't. 

Mr. AVeitz. Did there come a time, subsequent to tlie February meet- 
ing, when you and Dr. Mehren and Mr. Nelson met again with Mr. 
Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. We met at the Madison Hotel. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know when that took place ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Approximately how long after the February meeting 
did it take place? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't know, ]Mr. Weitz. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it more than 2 months later '. 

Mr. Jaoobsen. It might have been. 

Mr. Weitz. Was ]Mr. Kahnbach staying at the Madison at the time? 

Mr. Jacobsex*. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And were you staying there, too ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, sir. 

Mr. WErrz. And so were Dr. Mehren and Mr. Nelson ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes; if that would })in it down with your folios? 

Mr. Weitz. How did you come to Washington for that meeting? 

Mr. Jacoi'.sex. On a. commercial airline. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you come to Washington for that meeting specifi- 
cally ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. No, I don't think so. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that the same week that you met with Mr. Connally 
together with Dr. Mehren and Mr. Nelson ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't recall. 

Mr. Weitz. It may have been, but you do not lecall ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. It may have been. 

Mr. Weitz. Was the meeting before Ai)ril 7, this subsequent meeting 
with Mr. Kalmbach? 

Ml'. Jacobsex'. I don't know, Mr. Weitz. 

Mi-. Weitz. Was it later than April oO i 

]Nfr. Jacobsex. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. If it was later than April ;](). that would place it 3 
months after the first meeting. Would it have been 3 months after the 
first meeting — second meeting? 

Ml'. Jacobsex'. I don't know, Mr. Weitz. 

Mr. McNelis. Have you got anything that will fix the date? 

Mr. Dash. Can he fix that with respect to price supports? 

Mr. Weitz. This is 11)72. 

Mr. McNelis. If you fellows will suggest a date, it may jog his 
recollection and wo can go on from there. 

Mr. Weitz. We have the Madison Hotel records through April of 
1972. In February, March, and April that indicate — I will have you 
identify your records, I don't think it is appropriate for you to identify 
the records for JNIr. Kalmbach, Mr. Nelson or Dr. ]Mehren — that the 
only days on which the four of you were all in the ^Madison is the pe- 
riod of March 15 and 16 of 1972. Does that refresh your recollection? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me just show you the packet of ^Madison Hotel rec- 
ords for the period March 1 to April 30, 1972, in your name. Why don't 



6451 

you look through that and see whether aaiy of the charges or any of the 
other dates listed here will refresh your recollection as to the approxi- 
mate time of that meeting. 

Mr. Jacobsex. Mr. Weitz, this doesn't help me a bit. 

Mr. "\Veitz. But for the months of April and May, Mv. Kalmbach's 
records don't indicate that he was in the jNIadison after the 7th or the 
8th of April 197'2. Would that indicate to you, then — did the meeting 
take place, for example, before the summer of 1972? Is that consist- 
ent with your recollection ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, I think so. 

Mr. Weitz. So sometime between February 3, 1972, and perhaps 
June of 1972? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Perhaps, that is right. 

]Mr. Weitz. When you met Mr. Kalmbach, was he packing and leav- 
ing the hotel ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, he was going to New York. 

Mr. Weitz. He was going to New York ? 

And again if Mr. Kalmbach's calendar indicates that on the 16th 
of ^March 1972, he left Washington from the Madison Hotel and went 
to New York, Avould that refresh your recollection ? 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. Well, nothing is going to refresh my recollection. It 
will be pinned down by the facts. 

^Ir. Weitz. But you do remember he was on his way from the JNIad- 
ison to New York. 

Mr. Jacobsex. Correct, he was packing his bag as he was talking 
to us. 

]Mr. Weitz. And he was staying at the Madison when you met with 
him ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

^Ir. Weitz. And it would have been before June of 1972, and after 
February 3, 1972? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that also the same week that you met with INIr. 
Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. If Mr. Connally's records indicate that on March 16, 
1972, he met with you, Mr. Jacobsen, Mr. Nelson and Dr. ^Nlehren, 
would that refresh your recollection ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, that might — nothing is going to — you are being 
too persistent. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me ask you tliis. 

In 1972, how many times did you meet with Mr. Connally together 
with Mr. Nelson and Dr. Mehren ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Just once. 

Mr. Weitz. And if Mr. Connally's records show that meeting to 
ho March 16, 1972, you would not dispute that? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

]Mr. ^NIcNelis. What those records reflect, as I understand it. that 
it is what it will ])e whatever it is, according to the records? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And March 16, 1972, is also the day, as I indicated, 
that 'Sir. Kalm])ach left the aSIadison for New York. 

But you are not sure whetlier that is the same day that you met with 
Mr. Connallv and Mr. Kalmbach? 



6452 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. You don't place the record in sequence at that point 
in time? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Not at this time, today I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. How did you come to meet with Mr. Kahnbach on this 
third occasion ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. He called and said he wanted to see us in his room. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know ahead of time that you would be meeting 
with him sometime in that time period, or in some time period, in 
other words, were you waiting for his call ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Had you arranged for that before you came to Wash- 
ington ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I think I had talked to him in the hotel, 

Mr. Weitz. Did Dr. Mehren and Mr. Nelson kno\^- that they would 
be meeting with Mr. Kalmbach 'I 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, I think so. 

Mr. Weitz. ]3efore you saw Kalmback in the hotel, or after that? 

Mr. Jacobsen. After. 

Mr. Weitz. What did you talk to Mr. Kalmbach about in the hotel 
when you ran into him ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Well, I talked to him about the milk contribution, 
what was the situation, and what was going to happen, did he want 
the contribution, or did they want to make it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know whether Dr. Mehren was prepared to 
make it or not. 

Mr. Jacobsen. No; I still didn't know for sure whether he would 
make it or not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you check with Dr. Mehren as to whether he wanted 
to meet with Mr. Kalmbach before he had decided whether or not 
he wanted to make a contribution? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I didn't check with him. 

Mr. Weitz. And what did Mr. Kalmbach tell you when you talked 
to him? 

Mr. Jacobsen. In his room? 

Mr. Weitz. No, before that, in setting up the meeting. 

Mr. Jacobsen. He said he would find out more about the milk 
situation and let us know. 

Mr. Weitz. Who was he going to check with? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. At that meeting Mr. Mitchell was heading the cam- 
paign, was he not? 

Mr. Jacobsen. T guess so. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. If Mr. Mitchell came in the cami^aign in February, 
1972, it would have been after that. So, jn-esumably ]Mr. ^Mitchell was 
head of the campaign. 

Do you know whether he checked witli Mr. Mitchell ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whetliei- lie cliecked with ^Nfr. Stans? 

jMr. Jacobsen. No, I don't. 

Mr. Wettz. Do you know whether he checked with Mr. Coimally?' 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. How did you come to meet in Mr. Kalnibach's room? 
He called you? 



6453 

Mr. Jacobsen. He called and asked nie to come down to his room. 

Mr. Weitz. The three of yon'^ 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And did you do so? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And what took place there? 

Mr. Jacobsen. He said that the Committee To Re-Eloct the Presi- 
dent was not interested in any more contributions from the milk 
people. 

Mr. Weitz. And all three of you were present with Mr. Kalmbach? 

My. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And you came in together? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. AVeitz. So everything that transpired, transpired in the pres- 
ence of all four of you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz, Did he give a reason for the decision? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Xo, not that I i-ecall. He was in such a hurry, he 
just gave us the decision and kind of grabbed his bags and went oft". 

Mr. Weitz. Did Dr. JNIehren or any of you say anything in response? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Nothing at all ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he say anything to tlie effect that, "Dr. Mehren, if 
you want to take your weary bones back to California someday, you 
will be happy to hear that I don't want an}- money from you,*' does 
that refresh your recollection ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Xo. I don't remember that. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you surprised at the decision, or the information 
that he gave you ? 

INIr. Jacobsen. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Weitz. And none of you said anything of any significance when 
he said that ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. You just said, thank you and left? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Substantially, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. After tlie meeting did you discuss it with ]Mr. X^elson or 
Dr. Mehren ? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

]Mr. Weitz. What did you discuss ? 

JNIr. Jacobsen. We discussed the fact that they didn't want a 
contribution. 

And Mehren said, "Well, I don't believe I wanted to make one 
anyway." 

]Mr. Weitz. Was there any speculation or discussion as to why they 
didn't want any f urtlier contributions ? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. I don't remember, ]Mr. Weitz. 

^fr. Weitz. Approximately what time of tlie day was the meeting, 
do you recall ? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. It was in the late afternoon. 

^fr. Weitz. Late afternoon. After that meeting, did vou have any 
further conversation witli :\rr. Kalmbach about contributions from 
the dairy people ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. X'^o, I don't believe so. 



6454 

Mr. Weitz. None at all ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't believe so. 

Oh, yes, of course, I did. 

Mr. Weitz. What were those conversations? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I don't remember when that meeting was with the 
Dairymen, Inc., group. 

Mr. Weitz. Did there come a time when you met with Mr. Kalmbach 
and several representatives of Dairymen, Inc. ? 

Mr, Jacobsex. Dairymen's, Inc. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Who from Dairymen? 

Mr. Jacobsex. ]Mr. Westwater and ISIr. Morgan. 

Mr. Weitz. How did they come to meet with Mr. Kalmbach and you ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I made the appoint uient. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you first contact theui, "them" meaning Mr. Morgan 
and Mr. Westwater ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes, I talked to them. 

Mr. Weitz. You first contacted them about this meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Why did you contact tlieui ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I asked theui if they wouldn't like to go out and meet 
with Mr. Kalmbach. 

Mr. Weitz. Had you checked with Mf. Kaluibach first about this? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

]Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Kalmbach ever indicate that lie Avanted to solicit 
contributions from any other of the daiiy co-ops? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever arrange any other meeting Avith Mr. Kalm- 
bach and any other ])ossible or ])otential contributors? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. This was the only instance ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Tliis was the only instance. 

Mr. Weitz. This and the meetings with Dr. Mehren ? 

Ml*. Jacobsex. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you do so at Mr. Connally's suggestion ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you tell Mr. Connally that you were doing so ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you tell Mr. Nelson that you were doing so ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Doing what ? 

Mr. Weitz. Arranging a meeting between Mr. Kalmbach and some 
people from the other co-ops ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't recall if I did or not. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you in contact with Mr. Nelson about trying to 
arrange contributions from the other co-ops in 1072 ? 

Ml-. Jacobsex. No, I don't think so. 

Mr. Weitz. What was Mr. ^[organ's and ]Mr. Westwater's response 
to your suggestion ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. They thought they would like to meet Mr. Kalmbach. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they indicate they wanted to make a contribution ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, they did. 

Mr. Weitz. In wliat amount ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. They didn't say. 

Mr. Weitz. What did you next do ? Did you then call Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 



6455 

Mr. Weitz. What did he say ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. He said he would meet with them. 

Mr. "Weitz. AVas he rehictant, or did lie seem fairly anxious and 
congenial about meetino- witli them ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. He seemed congenial about meeting with them. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know, in fact, when the meeting took place? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it sometime in the summer of 1972 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

I\Ir. Weitz. Did you fly out with those two gentlemen to see Mr. 
Kalmbach ? 

]\rr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

]Mr. Weitz. And the meeting took place where ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. In his office. 

Mr. Weitz. In T>(OS Angeles ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. What took place at the meeting ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. It was just a general discussion, a friendly discussion, 
they didn't talk about conti'ibutions or anything else. 

Mr. Weitz. They flew from Louisville to Los Angeles and didn't 
talk about contributions? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No; they just talked about the dairy industiy prob- 
lems. I don't really recall everything that was said at the meeting. 

yir. Weitz. Let's try a few things. Did they discuss the Justice De- 
[)artment or FBI investigation of Dairymen, Inc., in connection with 
antitrust matters? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

jNIr. Weitz. Did they discuss price supports with Mr. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Jacobsex. They may have. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they discuss import quotas with ^Ir. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Jacobsex. They may have. 

Mr. AVeitz. Did they discuss political contributions with ]Mr. Kalm- 
bach? 

Mr. Jacobsex. They may have mentioned political contributions in 
the meeting. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Did they indicate they wanted to make a contribution, or 
be helpful, or support the President ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. I think they did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they say what amount? 

yir. Jacobsex. No, they did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they say substantial ? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. I don't think they did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did ]Mr. Kalmbach suggest hoAv much contributions 
could be made? 

Mr. Jacobsex. He may have. 

Mr. Weitz. What did he suggest? 

Mr. Jacobsex. That they be made to the Committee To Re-Elect ? 

Mr. McNelis. Do you have any recollection, Jake, whether he did 
or did not at this stage of the game ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I don't really have any recollection at all. 

Mr. Dash. Is this a meeting after the meeting when ]\Ir. Kalmbach 
said the committee didn't want any moi'c money from the dairy people ? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. I don't recall. 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 



6456 

Mr. ISIcNelis. It is not fixed at all Arhen this was. 

Mr. Weitz. I take it from what you said that the meeting with Mr. 
Kalmbach in the Madison Hotel took place sometime in the summer of 
197'2? 

INlr. Jacx)bsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And you believe the meeting Avith Mr. Kalmbach and 
the Dairymen, Inc., people took place sometime in the summer or 
middle of 1972'^ 

Mr. Ja( obsen. That is my recollection, that it was after he said he 
didn^t want any money from AM PI. 

Mr. Dash. After he said he didn't want any money, wliat made you 
pui'sue this? 

Mr. Jacorsex. This wasn't AMPI, this was a different aiea. 

Mr. Dash. But specifically he didn't want it from AMPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo. 

Mr. Weffz. Didn't Mr. Kalmbacli say in fact he didn't want any 
more money at tliis time from AMPI or the dairy people? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I don't recall wliether he said that or not, Mr. Weitz. 

Mr. Dash. I am trying to figure out why you draw a distinction 
between who gave money. Mr. Kalmbach was raising financial 
contributions. 

Do you u.nderstand what distinctions there would be as to whether 
or not he would accept so nnicli fiom A]MPI, or wouldn't want any 
more from AMPI. but he would accept some fi'om some other dairy 
co-ops ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I don't know, Mr. Dash, any more than I under- 
stand why Connally would take money from Dairymen, Inc., and not 
take any from AMPI. 

Mr. Weffz. You indicated that Dr. ]Mehren, had he been asked to, 
would have been disposed not to make contributions ? 

Mr. J.vcoBSEX. That is correct, that is what he said. 

Mr. Weitz. Put he did indicate that Mr. ]Morgan and Mr. West- 
water were intcFested in making contributions? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes. 

Ml'. Weitz. Is there anything else at the meeting which took place 
in connection witli the contributioiis or substantive matters iiiA'olving 
the dairy industry? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Not that I recall. 

Mf. McXelis. And this meeting we have been talking about, we are 
talking about the DaiFymen, Inc., gFoup ? 

Ml-. Weitz. Yes, siF. WestwatcF and MoFgan. 

AftcF that meeting did you contact ]Mf. Kalmbach to make ai'Fange- 
ments foF a contFiluition to be made to the (^oiinnittee To Re-Elect ? 

Mf. Jacobsex. No, I did not. 

"Sh: Weitz. Why was that '? 

Mf. Jacobsex. I just didn't. 

]\rF. Weitz. Do you know wliethcF in fact ^NIf. ^NloFgan and Mf. West- 
AvatcF made the decision of had made tlie decision to contiibute money 
to the Committee To Re-Elect. 

Mf. Jacobsex. Yes, they did. 

Mf. Weitz. I^ut it wasn't done tliFough you? 

Ml'. Jacobsex. No. 

ATf. Wefiz. Put it was done thiouiih Mf. Kalmbach ? 



6457 

Mr. Jacobsex, I don't know. 

JNIr. Weitz. So to your undcrstandino- there was 210 follow-up to that 
meeting with Mr. Kahnbach? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. AVeitz. Were there any other discussions that you had with Mr. 
Kahnbach about contributions from the dairy industry ? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. No, not that I recall. 

]\Ir. "Weitz. Let's go off the record. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

ilr. Sanders. Back on the record. 

Going back to an earlj^ aspect of this interview, you said that Semer, 
Parr and Nelson had met with Harry Dent sometime after the 1969 
contribution to Kalmbach. 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Saxders. And you were not present at that meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsex*. No, I wasn't. 

Mr. Saxders. And did one of those gentlemen tell you of the meet- 
ing? 

Mr. Jacobsen. They just told me that that took place. 

Mr. Sax'ders. Did they tell you of any of the circumstances? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. No. 

Mr. Sax^ders. Did you know the purpose of the meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsex". No, I don't. I think it was — no, this is the wrong 
way — I think it was to discuss daily problems — I don't know the pur- 
pose of the meeting, Mv. Sanders. 

ISIr. Sax^ders. Are you aware that the milk trusts made contributions 
to Republican and Democratic Congressmen in 1971 who supported 
milk legislation introduced in March 1971 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Saxders. Did you have any involvement in arranging the con- 
tributions to these Congressmen? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I did not. 

Mr. Saxders. Did you have any discussions with any officials of 
AMPI concerning the contributions to these Congressmen ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I did not. 

Mr. Sax'ders. Were you involved in any way in the effort made by the 
dairy industry to obtain a statutory increase in the price support as 
opposed to the executive ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. No, sir. 

Mv. Dash. Was that a different liaison ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Let me explain something. 

Wlien TAPE made contributions to Congressmen I really didn^t 
know anything about it. Mr. Nelson, ]\Ir. Parr, Mr. Lilly, and Mr. 
Isham did those things themselves, I didn't know, they didn't tell me 
anything about it. And so, therefore. I didn't know what contributions 
were made to any Congressman. 

Mr. Saxders. In March 1971 were you aware that AMPI had mount- 
ed an effort to get legislation introduced and passed? 

Mr, Jacobsex^ Oh, yes, sir. 

Mr. Sanders. How did you become aware of this ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Well. I was told that by Parr and Nelson, they told 
me they were working real hard to get Congressmen lined up. 



6458 

Mr. Sanders. Did they tell you that— let me ask you. first of all, 
were you aware of who had drafted the legislation? 
Mr. Jacobsex. No, sir ; I was not. 
Mr. McNelis. May I ask one question. 
Did Mr. Long draft the legislation, do you know ? 
Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. McNelis. Did you draft any legislation? 
Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Sanders. Did they mention any particular Congressmen to you 
whom they felt were key or vital in the introduction and passage of 
the legislation? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I don't believe they did, Mr. Sanders. 
Mr. Sanders. Did they explain to you in any way their tactics or 
strategy in this lobbying effort ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. They were bringing farmers in from different 
States and calling on the Congressmen. 

Mr. Sanders. And how were they accomplishing this? How were 
they getting the dairymen into Washington ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Through the different organizations. 
Mr. Sanders. Did they mention to you the matter of contributions to 
key Congressmen ? 
Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Sanders. Would this have been at a time after the initial deci- 
sion by the Secretary of Agriculture to maintain supports at the previ- 
ous year's level ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I think so. 

Mr. Sanders. Was anything said to you by any officials of AMPI 
with respect to congressional pressure on the AYhite House? 
Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you have any knowledge of an arrangement be- 
tween AMPI and an organization in IMinneapolis under the name of 
Valentine, Sherman & Associates ? 
Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Sanders. Is the name of that firm familiar to you? 
Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Sanders. And you have never heard of that before? 
Mr. Jacobsen. I never heard of it before. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you have any knowledge of funds being made avail- 
able by A]MPI to the 1072 Pi'csidential cam})aign of Senator Hum- 
phrey ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, I knew they made substantial contributions. 
Mr. Sanders. In what form ? 
Mr. McNelis. You mean currency or cash ? 

Mr. Sanders. I mean, just what do you know about those con- 
tributions? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I just know they told me they had made substantial 
contributions to Senator Humphrey. 
Mr. Sanders. Who told you this ? 
Mr. Jacobsen. Parr and Nelson. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you remember when they might have told you? 
Mr. Jacobsen. No, I don't. 

Mr. Sanders. Did it appear to you that they were speaking of funds 
from TAPE? 



6459 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr, Sanders. Did you ever learn that they might have made con- 
tributions other than through TAPE ? 
Mr. Jacobsex. Xo. 
Mr. ]\IcXelis. To Senator Humphrey you are still talking about? 

Mr. Sanders. Yes. 

Mr, Jacobsex. No. I didn't know that. 

Mr. Saxders. Did you ever learn of AMPI payments for goods or 
services rendered to the Humphrey campaign? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. No. sir ; I didn't. 

JNIr. Sax'ders. Do you have aiiy knowledge of A^NIPI funds being 
made available for the campaign of Senator Muskie, the Presidential 
campaign ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes. I understand that they made some funds avail- 
able to Senator Muskie. 

Mr. Sax'ders. Again you are talking about TAPE funds? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Yes. 

Mr. Sax'ders. Are you acquainted with Stuart Russell ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. No, I don't know ]Mr, Russell. 

Mr. Sax'ders. Do you have any knowledge of any funds being made 
available to Senator Muskie's Presidential campaign by reason of any 
involvement of or services of Stuart Russell ? 

]Mr. Jacobsex'. No, I don't. 

Mr. AYeitz, Off the record. 

[Discussion oft' the record.] 

]Mr. Weitz. Back on the record. 

Before we leave it I just want to understand, the meeting that we 
have discussed with Mr. Kalmbach in 1972 that you attended, the two 
meetings in Los Angeles involving ^Nlr. Nelson and one with Dr. 
Mehren in January and Februaiy of 1972, and again the meeting with 
you and ]Mr. Morgan and ]Mr. West water sometime in the middle of 
1972. and Mr. Kalmbach, on each of those occasions was it your under- 
standing that the sole purpose for those gentlemen and yourself going 
to Los Angeles was for the meeting with Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Correct. 

Mr. Weitz. And immediately after the meeting in each case they 
returned to either Texas or Louisville, whatever the case may be? 

]Mr. Jacobsex'. That is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. I Avould like to turn to the meeting with Mr. Connally. 
But before we do, did you know of any contact or any meeting, how- 
ever brief, between Mr. Lilly and ]\Ir. Connally in 1971 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did anyone ever tell you of such meeting ? 

Mr, Jacobsex. No, 

Mr, Weitz. Did either ]Mr. Connally or ^Ir. Lilly ever mention to 
you any contact that they had with each other in 1971 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. Lilly and Mt. Connally know 
each other? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. I would assume that the Secretary ^ 

Mr. McNelis. The question Avas, do you know ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you assume that they do? Do you have any facts on 
which to base any assumption ? 



6460 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I have no facts, excei^t that Lilly hung around the 
State capitol a lot. 

Mr. Wefpz. This was in the IDOO's when Coniially was Governor? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. How long a period of tiine was that when he was Gov- 
ernor in the sixties ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Three terms, 6 years. 

Mr. Weitz. And throughout tliat period you saw Mr. Lilly quite a 
bit at the State eapitol, frequently at tlie State eapitol? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. I was in Washington part of the time. But I knew^ 
Mr. Lilly spent a lot of time at the State capitol. 

Mr. WErrz. Do you know whetlier he met with Mv. Connally any 
time during that period ? 

Mr. Jac-obsen. Now, I am just assuming. You said assume. 

Mr. Dash. When did you fix the date on the time when you went to 
Mr. Lilly for the moneys for ]Mr. Comially's use '( 

Mr. Jacobsen. Sometime in May, 1 think. 

Mr. Dash. May of 1 97 1 , was that it ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Dash. You said you linked Mr. Lilly because you went to him 
for political matters. 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. McNelis. It was a little more definitive than that. 

Mr. Dash. And at no time, at that time when you went to Mr. Lilly, 
did you tell Mr. Lilly that you had money for Mr. Connally's — I think 
that is the way you used it — you nevei' mentioned that you had ever 
met ^^•ith Mr. Connally or talked to Mi-. ( 'onnally about the interest 
of the milk industry. 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. I believe you said that thei-e was a meeting that took 
place in 1972, only one meeting between Mr. Connally, yourself. Dr. 
Mehren, and Mr. Nelson. 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us about tliat meeting, how that came 
to pass ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Well, I thought I ought to introduce Dr. Mehren to 
Secretary Connally, since he was the new general managei- of the 
AMPI. iVnd I did arrange for a time for that meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you introduce him to any otlier Government officials? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. He wanted to meet a lot of them, but I had other 
people introduce thejn. 

Mr. Weitz. Did lie ask you to introduce him to Mr. Connally? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not i-ecall if he asked me or if I suggested it. T 
may have suggested it. 

Ml". Weitz. And did you also suggest why it would be a good reason 
for him to meet Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Secretary (^onnallv was Secretary of the Treasury, 
and that he was verv influential iu this administration. 

?vTr. AVErrz. Did that have anvtliiug to do — did you I'elate that in any 
way to the pending antitrust suit against AINIPT ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No; T did not relate it to anvthing. T figui'ed that 
from my standpoint this was purely a meeting for them to o-ot to know 
each otlier. When we got there Dr. Mehren mentioned the antitrust 
suit and se\'eral other matters. 



6461 

Mr. Dash. You know JNIr. Connally, I think 3^ou indicated, from 
way back. 
Mr. Jacobsen. About 25 years. 

Mr. Dash. Did you know any other Cabinet member or person 
hokling a high AVhite House position as well as you did Mr. Connally ? 
Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Dash. As a matter of fact, did you know any of them well ? 
Mr. Jacobsex. I did not know any of them. 

Mr. Dash. So ]\ir. Connally was the only one you knew of importance 
in the administration ? 
Mr. Jacobsex'. Correct. 

Mr. Dash. And you had access to Mr. Connally in introducing 
Dr. Mehren ? 
Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, sir. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Did you also indicate to Dr. Mehren that it would be 
good for him to meet someone who was very close to the President or 
had access to the President ? 

Mr. Jacobsex', Xo ; I do not think I indicated that. 
Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether ]\Ir. Connally was very close to 
the President? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, I assumed he Avas. 

Mr. AVeitz. Did you aj'range a meeting with INIr. Connally ? 
Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Weitz. For a meeting in his office with the other two gentlemen ? 
Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you fly into Washington with the other gentlemen 
to meet with Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsex, Xo, I do not think so. 

Mr, Weitz. Do you know whether tliey came to Washington pri- 
marily or specifically to meet with Mr. Connally ? 

yir. elACOBSEX, I think Dr. Mehren came to meet a lot of the new 
people in the administration. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know who else he met with during that trip '? 
Mr. Jacobsex'. Xo, I do not, 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us what took place at the meeting? 
Mr. Jacobsex. Well. I introduced Dr. Mehren to Secretary Connally, 
and Connally was pleased to meet him, and grinned and smiled. And 
Dr. Mehren proceeded to tell Secretary Connally about the jn^oblems 
that AMPI had been having with this administration. 
Mr. Weitz. "\Miat problems did he mention ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. He mentioned the antitrust suit, and dairy imports, 
and price supports, I believe. He mentioned several problems. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he mention an Internal Revenue Service investiga- 
tor audit of AMPI or of FMPI ? 
]Mr. Jacobsex. He may have. 

Mr. Weitz. What did he say specifically with regard to each of these 
matters? 

Mr. Jacobsex. He just stated the AMPI position. 
]\rr. Weitz. What was the AMPI position with regard to the anti- 
trust suit that he stated ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. That it was precipitately filed, that it was filed in a 
hurry, and he did not think it was proper, it was not justified, and they 
should not have filed it. 



6462 

Mr. Weitz. Had you been aware of tlie antitrust suit prior to that 
time ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Dr. ]VIeliren ask Mr. Counally to do anythinj^ for 
them with respect to the antitrust suit ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, he did not ask. 

Mr. Weitz. He said it was precipitately filed. Did he say anything 
else about the antitrust suit? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not remember what he said. 

Mr. Weitz. What was Mr. Connally's response ? 

Mr. elACOBSEN. He was sympathetic. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate there was notliing he could do, or was he 
merely sympathetic ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. He was merely sympathetic. 

Mr. Weitz. What was discussed with regard to import quotas? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. What was discussed with regard to price supports? 

jMr. Jacobsen. I think they reviewed the byplay of what had hap- 
pened before. That was about it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did INIr. Connally say that it was not wise just after 
another increase after all the furor over the previous year's increase? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not think he said that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Dr. Mehren ask jNIr. Connally to do what he could to 
help them obtain another increase? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I do not believe so. 

INIr. Weitz. Did he ask Mr. Connally to help them in the import 
quotas area to eliminate import quotas for competing dairy products! 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not think he asked the Secretary to really do any- 
thing, I think he just stated the problems. 

Mr. Weitz. And in general you say Mr. Connally was sympathetic. 
Did he say, ''Tliat is really too bad, and I certainly understand, and 
something ought to be done about it"? Did he give any specific type of 
response ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, he just said. "That is certainly too bad." 

Mr. Weitz. Did he say he would contact anyone about these matters? 

Mr. Jacobsen. He did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he in fact call anyone about these matters? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he speak to Mr. Mitchell about them ? 

Mr. Jacobsi:n. Not while we were in the room, I do not believe. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate that he would speak to anvone else other 
than Mr. Mitchell? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, he did not. 

Mr. McNelis. Is it accepted as a fact tliat lie did indicate that he 
spoke to Mr. Mitchell ? 

Mr. Weitz. No, I said anyone else other than Mr. Mitchell. 

Ml-. Dash. Again, the purpose of introducing Dr. Mehren to Secre- 
taiv Connally, I take it, was to introduce liim to an influential mem- 
ber of tlie (xovernment ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Correct. 

Ml". Dash. Not just to say hello, was it? Ccuiainly, Di-. Mehren 
wanted to express his dissatisfaction. 

Ml'. Jacobsen. Oh, he did express it. 



6463 

Mr. Dash. And I take it, he was not just expressing dissatisfaction 
to Secretary (^onnally just to be heard. I^ut would it bo your under- 
standinof, being- present at that meeting, that he liopod that Secretary 
Connally would favor them or do something to help them? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I think in the back of his mind he was hoping that by 
stating the problems that he could get sympathetic undei-standing from 
Secretary Connally. 

Mr. Dash. And whatever Secretary Connally could do he would do, 
otherwise the meeting 

Mr. Jacobsex. I think that is right. I think that was in Dr. Meh- 
ren's mind. But I cannot read Dr. jNIehren'S mind. 

Mr. Dash. I guess it was part of your purpose to introduce Dr. 
Melu'en to assist that relationship, was it not? 

Mr. Jacobsex". Xo, I i-eally thought by introducing Dr. Mehren, when 
some specific problem came up later he might then want to talk to 
Secretary Connall}'. I did not think he was going to uso it as a forum 
for discussing all the problems. 

Mr. Dash. Were you surprised when he suddenly let loose on all his 
])i'oblems ? 

Mr. Jacobsex*. Yes, I was, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Were political contributions discussed? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Was political support by the dairy people for the Presi- 
dent or his reelection mentioned in any way ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, I do not think it was. 

Mr. Weitz. There was no reference to tlie relationship between these 
problems the dairy industry was having with the administration as 
Dr. Mehren explained them and the 1972 election ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I think that that — it might have been mentioned, Mr. 
Weitz, but if it Avas not mentioned, it was implicit in what was being 
said. 

^Ir. Weitz. It was under that that these problems might atfect the 
election ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Sure. 

Mr. Weitz. Or support of the dairy people for the President? 

Mr. Jacobsex-. Of course. 

Mr. Weitz. Did anyone address themselves to that problem or men- 
tion it in any way ? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. ^Mehren may have, but I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there anything that took place at the meeting that 
you recall ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo. 

]Mr. Weitz. Did ]SIr. Xelson say anything at the meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, he did not say anything. 

Mr. Weitz. "V\^iy did Mr. X'elson accompany the two of you? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. Because he was here in Washington with Dr. Mehren. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know why he was in Washington with Dr. 
Mehren? 

Mr. Jacobsex'. I think he was on a consultant basis, and Dr. Mehren 
wanted him to attend tlie different meetings with him. 

Mr. Dash. How long did the meetings last? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I would say about 30 minutes. 

Mr. Dash. And where was the meetingplace? 



6464 

Mr. Jacobsen. In Secretary Connally's office. 

Does his log show how long we met ? 

Mr. Weitz. His log indicates it was a 40-miniite meeting. 

Mr. Jacobsek. Ten minutes longer than I thought. 

Mr. Weitz. In that respect, did you consult with or meet with Mr. 
Connally for an}' period of time, either before or after that meeting, 
alone, without the presence of the other two gentlemen ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, after the meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. At the end of the meeting with the four of you. And 
how did that take place ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. The other two left and I stayed behind. 

Mr. Weitz. For how long? 

yiv. Jacobsen. Five minutes or so. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they leave the building or did they just wait for you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. They waited for me in the outer office. 

Mr. Weitz. And how did it come to pass that you stayed behind? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I think I wanted to talk a little Texas politics with 
the Secretary, I just lagged behind. 

]Mr. Weitz. And you stayed behind for about 5 minutes ? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. For about 5 minutes. 

Mr. Weitz. And what did you discuss with Mr. Connally? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Texas politics is all I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Is that all ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I belie\e that is all. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss the IRS investigation with him? 

INIr. McNelis. Which one ? 

Mr. Weitz. The IRS investigation of AMPI. 

Mr. Jacobsen. The only time I talked — and it may have been at 
this time, I am not sure — but I talked to Secretary Connally one 
time about the IRS investigation, to ask him if it was all right if we 
approached his law partner to represent AINIPI in the IRS investiga- 
tion, the head of their tax division. 

Mr. Weitz. Which partner was that ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Marvin Collie, C-o-l-l-i-e. 

Mr. Dash. When you stayed behind, did ]Mr. Connally express any 
surprise at Dr. Mehren's behavior? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No: he has been in politics too long for that; he did 
not express any surprise. 

Mr. Weitz. Beside Texas politics, did he discuss possible contribu- 
tions for the dairy people ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he discuss their possible support or lack of support 
for the Presidential campaign? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he discuss with you the antitrust suit? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he call Mr. ]\Iitchell in youi- pi-esence? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Not while I was there. 

Mr. Weitz. You do not recall right after that meeting — sometime 
that afternoon — meeting with Mr. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No; I really do not, Mr. Weitz. I would like to — I 
would very much like to please you by saying yes, but I do not recall it. 

Mr. Dash. Do not please us; tell us your best recollection. 



6465 

INIr. ]McNelis. But you do remember meeting Kalmbacli in the 
Madison Hotel ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes ; I do remember that. 

Mr. McNelts. There is no question that that meeting occurred? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. Xo question. 

Mr. McNelis. And the hotel's record will reflect when all of you were 
there, and then is when it was ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Probably, yes. 

Mv. Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. Connally did anything as a 
result of that meeting, or as a result of that information to assist the 
dairy people in their problems with the administration? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo ; I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Dr. Mehren ever ask you about that or even ask to 
see Mr. Connally again ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo ; he never did. 

Mr. Weitz. You said you were aware of the antitrust suit before the 
time of this particular meeting with Mr. Connally. What did you know 
about the antitrust suit ? 

^Ir. Jacobsex. That it had been filed, that AMPI thought it was a 
horrible thing. 

Mr. Weitz. What else did you know about it ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. That is all. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they ask you to assist them in any way ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know who they retained to assist them with 
respect to the litigation or with respect to any matters in connection 
with the antitrust suit? 

Mr. Jacobsex. A law firm out of Chicago. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether Keeves and Harrison had played 
any role in connection with the antitrust suit ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk with Marion Harrison about the problem? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, I did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk with Mun^.y Chotiner about the problem? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not know Murray Chotiner. 

Mr. Weitz. I have here a letter dated February 25, 1972, from 
Marion Harrison to George Mehren, with a copy to Stuart Russell, and 
the subject heading United States versus AMPI. And the first para- 
graph reads : 

Dear George : In view of the changing of the guard, apart from Jalve's reason- 
ing. I decided with Murray's concurrence not to talk with the incumbent hut to 
take the matter up anew with his successor. 

And the letter goes on to discuss a meeting between Murray and 
John, and it goes on to discuss a confirmation vote no earlier than 
February 29. 

Were you commonly referred to by people who knew you as Jake? 

Mr, Jacobsex. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you have any idea whether this reference was to your 
reasoning ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you have any reasoning that you imparted to Dr. 
Mehren about the antitiust suit ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, I did not. 



6466 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss the antitrust suit with Dr. Mehren ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And did you have a theory as to why it should be filed, 
which you imparted to Dr. Mehren? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I did not have any theory as to why it had been 
filed, other than the fact that they had probably violated the antitrust 
law. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you have a theory as to who they should approach 
in the Department of Justice in terms of the Attorney General or the 
Assistant Attorney General for the Antitrust Division ? 

Ml-. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you ever asked? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I do not thinlv so. I did not know anybody in the 
Justice Department. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you aware that at this time in February 1972, that 
Mr. Mitchell had just stepped down as Attoi'uey (xeneral t 

Mr. Jacobsen. I sui)pose I was. I read it in the paper. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you aware that jNIr. INIcLaren had also just re- 
cently left to become a judge in Chicago ? 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And were you also aware that Mr. Kliendienst had been 
nominated as Attorney General and that his confirmation hearings 
had just been completed — or the confirmation process was in process? 

JNIr. Jacobsex. I guess I read that in the paper. 

Mr. Weitz. And you were neitlier asked nor expressed any views on 
who AMPI should confer with at the Justice Department? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not believe so. 

Mr. Weitz. And you did not suggest that perhaps they should seek 
help from JNIr. Connally with regard to the antitrust suit? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you make any suggestions whatsoever to Dr. Mehren 
with regard to the antitrust suit, or to Dr. Mehren's attorneys? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Not that I recall, Mr. Weitz. 

Mr. Weitz. In what connection did you discuss the antitrust suit 
with them ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Just generally, that it had been filed, and it was so 
bad, and it was costing them so much money, and they were hoping 
that they could get rid of it. 

Mr. Weitz. In what connection did you discuss the antitrust suit 
among AMPI's lawyers? 

INIr. Jacobsex. None. 

Mr. Weitz. Just Dr. Mehren ? 

Mr. Jacobsex, Just Dr. ]Mehren. 

Mr. Weitz. And did you discuss it with Mr. Nelson? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I am sure I did. 

Mr. Weitz. And did you discuss it with Stuart Russell ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. I do not know Stuart Russell. 

Mr. Weitz. Or with any of their Chicago attorneys that you said 
they retained ? 

Ml'. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Or witli ]\farion Han-ison or with Chotiner? 

Mr. Jacob.sex. They know who it is. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know a Richard Grossman? 



6467 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. Or Edwin Ileininger ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I have met Mr. Heininger. 

Mr. Weitz. Is Heiiiinoer a inember of the Chicago Law firm that they 
retained for the antitrust litigation? 

Mv. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. You have no idea what the reference to Jake's reasoning 
is about? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I really do not. 

Mr. DoRSEX. AVere you advocating making political contributions 
at this time ? 

jNIr. Jacobsex. What date ? 

Mr. Weitz. The date of the particular letter is February 25, 1972. 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, I was advocating it, 

Mr. DoRSEX. Is it possible that the reference to Jake's reasoning has 
something to do with political contributions ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever suggest that contributions to the Presi- 
dent's reelection could assist in alleviating or helping to soften what- 
ever reasons they had with the administration, including the antitrust 
suit ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Say that again. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever suggest that by making contributions in 
1972 to the President's reelection effort that AlNIPI's position with 
regard to any problems he had with the administration would be 
helped ? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. I always took the position that it could not be hurt. 

Mr. Weitz. And that they could be helped? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Maybe. 

Mr. Weitz. And did that include a reference to the antitrust suit? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Maybe. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that suggestion ever made in the context or at the 
same time when the antitrust was discussed whether or not you spe- 
cifically referred to it ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. But you might have referred to the antitrust suit as one 
item which might have been helped by way of contributions? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. That is right. 

^Ir. Weitz. Did you ever hear from whatever source other than what 
you have read in the paper, whetlier Mr. Connally did in fact contact 
^Ir. Mitchell about the antitrust suit ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Xo, I did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether the dairy people or yourself or 
anyone on their behalf contacted Mr. Dole in 1972 about the antitrust 
suit? 

INIr. Jacobsex. Xo, I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know of any meeting that the dairy people held 
m :March of 1972 or sometime in 1972 with Robert Strauss? 

^Slr. Jacobsex. I think I went to one meeting with Mehren and 
Strauss. 

Mr. AYeitz. ^Ylciiit did they discuss? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Contributions. 

^Ir. Weitz. Any particular contribution in mind? 



6468 

Mr. Jacobsex. I think Strauss was trying to get them to contribute 
to the program at tlie Democratic Convention. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall whether that took place at the same series 
o.f days and meetings at which the meeting with Connally took place? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not recall that. 

Mr. Weitz. Who else was present, just Dr. Mehren, yourself and 
Mr. Strauss, or anyone else^ 

]\Ir. Jacobsex. Mr. Nelson, I think. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you arrange that meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, I think I did. I think Strauss wanted me to 
arrange it. 

Mr. Weitz. And he contacted you ? 

Mr. Jacobse^t. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And you have known Mr. Strauss for a long time ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, many years. 

Mr. Weitz. And did you advise AMPI to make contributions as 
Mr. Strauss suggested ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Weitz. AA'ould that way of thinking have a detrimental effect 
on their antitrust suit, since it would have been to the Democratic 
Party ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not think it would have made any difference. 

Mr. Weitz. Did not Mr. Strauss indicate that this woukl be a joint 
contribution to both the Ilepublican aiul the Democratic National 
Conventions ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. So in fact, it was part of the contributions to both the 
Republican and the Democrats? 

Mr. Jacobsex. That is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. Were there any other meetings that you recall or know 
about between the dairy peojjle and Mr. Connally in 197"2 with regard 
to AMPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did there come a time in 1972 when you were contacted 
by the dairy people or you contacted them in connection with a larOT 
contribution just before April 7 to 80 State committees to the Repub- 
lican Party ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Not me ; no, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. You know of no such contribution ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And you recall no contacts between Nelson and yourself 
in 1972 concerning the need to reacli Mr. Kalmbach concerning con- 
tributions to 80 State committees of the Republican Party? 

?v[r. Jacobsex. No, sir, I do not recall that. 

Mr. Weitz. Other than the meetings you have told us about between 
the dairy people and Kalmbach in 1972, did you know of any other 
contacts between Mr. Kalmbach and the dairy people either direct 
or indirect in 1972? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. sir — what do you mean by indirect? 

Ml'. Weitz. Through others. 

]Mr. McNelis. Hearsay, or rumors? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. No others ? 



6469 

yir. Jacobsf.x. I miffht liave mot with Mr. Kalmbach in the Madison 
several times, ran into him at the Madison. 

Mr. "Weitz. But at no time do you recall cither hearing of or, in fact, 
askin<2: the dairy people to make out 30 checks or numerous checks for 
contributions totaling either $150,000 or $300,000 just prior to April 
7,1972? 

jNIr. Jacobsen. Xo, sir. 

jMr. AVeitz. Do you know the fii'm of Wagner & Baroody ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Mr. Dohrovir asked me about that, too. I think I met 
a ]Mr. Baroody through the Democrats for Nixon. He came around 
once or twice and I met a ]Mr. Baroody. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know of any connection between Wagner & 
Baroody and AMPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I do not. 

jMr. Weitz. Do you know that they were retained by AMPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I did not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know of any connection between Charles Colson 
and Wagner & Baroody ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know George Webster? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know of any contributions that the dairy people, 
including A^NIPI or TAPE, made to any committees established for 
Mr. Colson? 

Mr. Jacobsex". No. I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Eepublican committees established for Mr. Colson? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I do not, Mr. Weitz. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know of any contributions the dairy people 
made at the suggestion or request of Mi\ Colson ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I do not. Are you referring to the same thing 
IMr. Dobrovir referred to? He went through this long explanation 
about the money borrowed from Baioody and money going 

Mr. Weitz. Do you have any knowledge of any in that regard ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. You mentioned the IRS investigation and the reten- 
tion of Marvin Collie by AMPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And you discussed this with Mr. Connally sometime 
in 1972 ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And what did you ask him about it? 

]Mr. Jacobsex. I asked him if it would be all right if we approached 
Mr. Collie. 

Mr. Weitz. Why did you ask Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Because Mr. Connally was Secretary of the Treasury 
and has the IRS under his jurisdiction, and I did not want to be 
meddling in his law firm if he did not w'ant me to. 

Mr. Weitz. Did the law firm of Vinson Elkins do other work for 
AMPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Was this to your knowledge, the only instance in which 
they were retained by AISIPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I think it was the first instance. I think they were re- 
tained in the antitrust suit too, to some extent now. 



6470 

Mr. Weitz. At that time it was the first instance ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Had Mr. Lilly or someone at AMPI asked you to re- 
tain Iiim ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. T suggested Mr. Collie. He is the best tax lawyer in 
Texas. 

Mr. Weitz, And who asked you for your help and advice ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Mr. — I am not suie it Avas Dr. Mehren or Mr. Nel- 
son — it was Nelson. 

Mr. Weitz. Sometime in 1972'? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And what did he ask you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. He asked me wlio they should hire to handle this 
tax matter. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ask you who they should try to contact in the 
administration ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they not think that it would be useful to contact 
someone in the administration — did you think it would be useful to 
contact someone in the administration? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I did not see how you could do it. I did not think 
you could contact Secretary Connally, tliat it would be improper. 
And he is the only one I know. 

Mr. Weitz. I take it Dr. Mehren discussed the antitrust suit with 
Mr. Connally? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And he did not think that was improper? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I thought it was. 

Mr. Weitz. You thouofht it was improper? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. McNixis. If you recall his testimony, lie was surprised when 
he brought it up. 

Mr. Weitz, As I recall his testimony, did you say that the first meet- 
ing was for get-acquainted purposes, and you thought at some later 
time if Dr. Mehren had any problems or wanted to meet Mr. Connally 
later he would do so? 

Mr. Jaco^iEn. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. You were surjirised oi- you were not surprised at 
the first meeting, he made some i-efereiice about a governmental 
official ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. You ai-e talking about the future. I do not know 
what might have happened in the future. 

Mr. Dash. If you have an antitrust matter, the persons you usually 
deal with aiv the Govei-nment officials. And if you had a real beef, a 
legitimate one, would it be a])])ro])i'iate to talk to the highest official 
to get an opinion? 

Mr. Jacobsen. T thought it was ina))i)i-opi-iate at the first meeting, 
but T do not think it would be otherwise. 

Mr. Weitz. Would it not be inappropriate for somebody to discuss 
the IRS investigation? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I think it would be inappi'opriute to talk about it to 
Secretarv Connally. 

Mr. Weitz. Why? 

INIr. J.\c<msEN. Because he is the Secretarv of the Treasury. 



6471 

Mr. Weitz. Because he is the Secretary of the Treasury? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. With responsibility to IKS? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Would he not be the one to talk to if you thought this 
was an injustice, or there was some problem in the investigation? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No; I think that would have been improper. 

Mr. Weitz. And Mr. Connally had no objection to the retention by 
AMPI of Mr. Collie? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Was anything else said about the investigation? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you explain to him what was involved ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; just the tax matter involving AMPI. 

Mr. Weitz. You did not indicate what the tax matter related to ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I do not think so. 

Mr. Weitz. And he did not ask you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Dash. Your role was just to introduce him. "Wlio from AMPI 
would he deal with to get the facts ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I took Mr. Nelson down to Marvin Collie's office after 
we had this discussion with Secretary Connally. 

Mr. Dash. So the role you played was just introducing him? 

Mr. Jacobsen. That is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Nelson at this time was a consultant ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; Mr. Nelson was still the chief, head man. 

Mr. Weitz. And this would have been before he was deposed in 
January 1972 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I believe that is right. 

Mr. Weitz. So you would have discussed this with Mr. Connally pre- 
sumably in 1971 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Let me be — I am tired — I am not sure if Mr. Nelson 
had been deposed or not, I am not sure. 

Mr. Weitz. So it was either in 1971 or 1972 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. 1972. 

Mr. Dorsen. As I understand it, Mr. Nelson was deposed on January 
13, 12 or 13, 1972. The antitrust suit was not brought until February 
1,1972. 

Mr. Jacobsen. That is correct. 

Mr. DoRSEN. If you discussed the antitrust suit at this meeting it 
must have been after Mr. Nelson was deposed. 

Mr. Jacobsen. You are right. And Mr. Nelson went with me to 
see Mr. Collie at Dr. Mehren's request. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. Is that because it involves some matter that came 
up back when Mr. Nelson was the head of AMPI ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. And Mr. Nelson was a legal consultant. 

Mr. McNelis. Off the record. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. AVeitz. Back on the record. 

After the meeting with Mr. Collie and Mr. Nelson, were any further 
contacts made with Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No ; not that I know of, not by me. 

Mr. Weitz. How was the matter ultimately resolved, do you know ? 



30-337 (book 15) O 



6472 

Mr. Jacx)bsen. Well, the co-ops paid a pretty sizaible deficiency. 

Mr. Weitz. After the meeting with Mr. Connally and Dr. Mehren 
was there any contact you had in connection with the antitrust suit 
with the AMPI people ? Did you represent them in any way, or did 
you talk to anyone else on their behalf ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did there come a time in 1972 when several representa- 
tives of the other two co-ops. Mid- America, and Dairymen, Inc., met 
with Mr. Connally and yourself ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us about that ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. They met with — I am not sure if I was present at 
that meeting or not, but they met with Mr. Connally to discuss the 
problems of the dairy industry after the Democrats for Nixon got 
organized. 

Mr. Weitz. And that would have been in August ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. In August. 

Mr. Weitz. And if Mr. Connally's records indicate that it was 
August 2, 1972, would that be consistent with your recollection? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. How did the meeting come about ? Did they contact you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I believe they contacted me and said they wanted to 
make a contribution but they wanted to talk to Secretary Connally. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they say how much they wanted to contribute ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. And these were representatives of both SPACE and 
ADEPT? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And do you remember who the representatives were ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. It was Gary Hanman and his general manager, whose 
name • 

Mr. Weitz. Gene Baldi. 

Mr. Jacobsen. Gene Baldi. And Joe Westwater, and Ben Morgan. 

Mr. Weitz. Of Dairymen, Inc. ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Of Dairymen, Inc. 

Mr. Weitz. Can you place this in time — this meeting took place 
where, in Washington? 

Mr. Jacobsen. In Washington, in the Madison Hotel. 

Mr. Weitz. Can you place this meeting in time with reference to 
the meeting that Mr. Westwater, Morgan, and you had with Mr. Kalm- 
bach in 1972? Was it no more than a month or two apart? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. But you place the other meetings sometime in the middle 
of 1972? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And this meeting has been placed at August 2, 1972. So 
it was sometime within a few months apart at the moment. Did one 
meeting have any relation to the other ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. For example, after the meeting with Mr. Kalmbach, 
did you suggest that they might be interested in meeting with Mr. 
Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 



6473 

Mr. Weitz. Did you initiate the contact, or did they initiate the 
contact ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I think they initiated the contact. 

Mr. Weitz. A^Hiy did they contact you ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Because they knew me. 

Mr. "Weitz. Were you retained by them at that point ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

]Mr. AVeitz. They indicated they wanted to make some contribution to 
Democrats for Nixon ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Correct. 

Mr. Weitz. And did they also indicate that they wanted to make 
or were going to make some contributions to the Committee To Re- 
Elect? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And did they indicate how much thev wanted to con- 
tribute? 

Mr. Jacobsex. They did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Before the meeting ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they indicate that they wanted to tell Mr. Connally 
of their interest in making contributions ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No ; I do not tliink they did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Hanman come in from Missouri for the 
meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I guess so. 

Mr. McNelis. Do you know how he got here ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No : I do not know. I have no idea. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Morgan and Mr. Westwater come in from Louis- 
ville for the meeting ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I guess they did. 

]Mr. ]McNelis. Again, do you know where they came from when they 
were here ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Dash. I guess in order to have the meeting — none of these men 
are residents or do business in Washington — they would all have to 
come to Washington ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. That is right. 

Mr. Dash. And they came to Washington just for this meeting. 

]Mr. Jacobsex. That is true. 

Mr. Weitz. "\ATiat took place at the meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsex. With Secretary Connally ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not think I was present at the meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you usher them in and then leave? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes : I think so. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you normally sit in on meetings that you had ar- 
ranged with people that you knew and that Mr. Connally did not 
know ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Not necessarily. 

Mr. Weitz. You introduced them, and so forth. You have no recol- 
lection, then — your recollection is that you did not attend the meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsex. My recollection is that I did not attend the meeting. 
I do not know what Secretary Connally's records show. 



6474 

Mr. McNelis. Right now your recollection is that you did not at- 
tend this meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk with Mr. Connally and these gentlemen 
about the purpose of the meeting before or after the meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I am sure I did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you tell them that the purpose of the meeting was 
for them to discuss their problems with Secretary Connally ? Did they 
indicate that is what they wanted to discuss with the Secretary ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And did they also indicate they wanted to discuss possi- 
ble contributions with the Secretary ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. They did not indicate that to me. 

Mr. Weitz. But they did indicate that they wanted to make contri- 
butions ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. They may have talked to Secretary Connally 
about it, I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk with Secretary Connally about this after 
the meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. About the meeting after it took place? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I do not think I did. 

Mr. Weitz. He did not tell you what took place ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. He said they presented a lot of problems, and he 
asked me to put it in letter form. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate that he discussed contributions with 
them? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, he did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk with the other gentlemen after the meeting ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, I did, sometime after the meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk with them immediately after the meeting? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not think so. 

Mr. Weitz. At some later time when they discussed the meeting with 
you, what did they tell you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. They told me they were going to write Secretary Con- 
nally a letter about the problems. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they just mention contributions to Democrats for 
Nixon with you ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not know. 

Mr. Dash. I think you started to say earlier that at some time you 
did find out what, in fact, they had in mind as to the amount? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes; they finally made the contributions. 

Mr. Dash. When did you learn about that ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. They came to me. 

Mr. Weitz. Both groups ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall when they did so ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. If tlie records of SPACE indicate that on the day of 
the meeting with Mr. Connally a check for $25,000 was drawn to 
Democrats for Nixon, and a receipt given, does that refresh your 
recollection ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. They came to me after the meeting and gave 
me the contribution. 



6475 

Mr. Weitz. And was that also the time when they discussed the 
meeting with you? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. So it is the day of the meeting ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. "Weitz. After the meeting. 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. And then ADEPT did it later. 

jNIr. Weitz. But did they talk to you about it at that time, even 
though they contributed sometime later? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I think they did later. 

Mr. Weitz. What do you know about the other contributions? Do 
you recall how much ADEPT gave ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. $25,000. 

Mr. Weitz. And was it all turned over to the National Committee 
for Nixon? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No; it Avas given to different State committees. 

Mr. Weitz. How was that decision made ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. It was made based on the needs of the State 
committees. 

Mr. Weitz. And how was that need communicated to ADEPT? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Through me. 

Mr. Weitz. And you talked with the officials, Leonard Marx? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. You talked with Leonard INIarx when he was treasurer 
for Democrats for Nixon ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

]Mr. Weitz. And he told you where the $25,000 should best be placed ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And you told that to ADEPT ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Correct. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you communicate any information with respect to 
either of those two contributions, the fact that they had been made, 
or the amounts, to Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. So you would have told them that each organization 
contributed $25,000 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you tell him as to which committees, and so forth? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Wefiz. But you did tell them $25,000 each ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I think I did, yes. 

Mr. McNelis. Do I understand you now to say you think you 
told 

Mr. Jacobsen. I think I told Secretary Connally that they each 
contributed $25,000, but I am not sure. 

Mr. Weitz. Because in fact, that is what they contributed ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And the only reason that ADEPT contributed to the 
various committees was that was where the money was needed? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Correct. 

Mr. Dash. And you told them that ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Correct. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether SPACE and ADEPT contributed 
to the Committee To Re-Elect or the Finance Committee To Re-Elect? 



6476 

Mr. Jacobsen. I have heard that they did. 

Mr. Weitz. You have no personal knowledge of that ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever discuss with Lee Nunn during any time 
in 1972, possible contributions or solicitations of contributions from 
the dairy people? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes, I think I did. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us anything about those conversations? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Just that I thought they wanted to make a contri- 
bution, and that he ought to get in touch with them. 

Mr. Weitz. How did you know that ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Well, they must have indicated to me that they 
wanted to make a contribution to the Democrats for Nixon, and also 
to the Committee To Re-Elect. 

Mr. Weitz. And that would have been SPACE and ADEPT ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. So you communicated that to Lee Nunn ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And did they communicate that to Mr. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you understand that Mr. Nunn had replaced Mr. 
Kalmbach as a fundraiser? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I did not know that. I had gotten to know Lee 
Nunn through Democrats for Nixon. 

Mr. Weitz. Was he coordinating their solicitation effort with 
Democrats for Nixon ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Is there any reason that you know of that SPACE and 
ADEPT gave contributions to each of the two as opposed to just 
Democrats for Nixon or just the finance committee? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it ever suggested to them that it would be advisable 
to split their contribution between the two options ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. You never gave them such advice ? 

Ml*. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Lee Nunn ever discuss with you or you with him, 
the amount of money that the finance committee expected from the 
dairy people ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever discuss with him, or he with you, the 
amounts that were still forthcoming as a result of the 1971 price sup- 
port decision? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I do not think so. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ever mention the price-support decision with 
you? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I do not believe he did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ever mention the antitrust suit? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I do not believe so. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you aware of any conversations that Dr. Mehren 
had with Lee Nunn in 1972 ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. It seems to me that Lee Nunn called me to get Dr. 
Mehren's phone number. And that is about all I know, that he was 
evidently going to call Dr. Mehren. 



6477 

Mr. McNelis. Did you have the number ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. Yes. 

Mr. McNelis. Did you give it to him ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk to Dr. Mehren about this? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. "Weitz. You never talked to Dr. Mehren about a conversation 
or a possible meeting between he and Lee Nunn? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not think I did. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether Dr. Mehren ever consulted with 
President Johnson in 1972 concerning contributions to the President's 
reelection ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Dr. Mehren ever discuss with you other than meet- 
ings that you had with Mr. Kalmbach and Dr. Mehren in 1972, any 
meetings he had with any Republican fundraisers ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether TAPE contributed or the Com- 
mittee for TAPE contributed any moneys to the President's reelection 
in 1972? 

^Ir. Jacobsen. No, I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Nunn ever discuss with you the possibility of 
obtaining moneys from TAPE for the President's reelection campaign 
through contributions to any senatorial or congressional campaign 
committees? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, he did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know^ whether any such contributions were made 
to the President's reelection campaign in such a manner? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I do not. 

Mr. DoRSEX. Do you know whether TAPE or the Committee for 
TAPE contributed to the Eepublican congressional or senatorial cam- 
paigns in 1972, made contributions to the Republican congressional 
or senatorial campaign committees? 

Mr. Jacobsex. No, I do not. 

Mr. DoRSEX. Did you ever discuss contributions by the dairy indus- 
try with Maurice Stans ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. I met with Mr. Stans, but I do not recall discussing 
dairy industry contributions with him. 

Mr. Dorsen. You say you met with Mr. Stans. Do you know Mr. 
Stans ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Dorsen. How long have you known him ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Since the campaign. 

Mr. Dorsen. And you met him in connection with the campaign? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. 

Mr. Dorsen. And how many meetings did you have with him ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Maybe three or four. 

Mr. Dorsen. And did they deal with fundraising? 

]Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. They dealt not with fundraising so much as with 
the financial problems of the Democrats for Nixon. 

Mr. Dorsen. And do you recall whether the dairy industry's role in 
the campaign came up with Mr. Stans ? 

Mr. Jacobsex. I do not believe so. 



6478 

Mr. DoRSEN. Do you know whether any representatives of the dairy 
industry ever met with Maurice Stans ? 

Mr. Jacobsen, No, I do not. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Did you ever discuss the dairy industry's role in the 
campaign with John Mitchell ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. I do not know Mr. Mitchell. 

Mr. DoRSEN. You never met Mr. Mitchell ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Do you know whether any meetings were held between 
Mr. Mitchell and representatives of the dairy industry ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, I do not. 

Mr. Dash. When you say that you "do not know" to some of these 
questions like whether Mr. Stans and any member of the daii-y indus- 
try discussed contributions, or whether the dairy industry gave any 
particular contributions to the campaign, or whether Mr. Mitchell had 
any discussions with the dairy industi^y, would it be likely that you 
would know ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, not likely. 

Mr. Dash. Are you the person who would be in touch with this kind 
of information ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. I believe it would be the Republican law firm, 
Reeves & Harrison. 

Mr. McNelis. You never talked to Mitchell even on the telephone? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Do you have any other infonnation concerning cam- 
paign contributions that were in fact made or solicited in comiection 
with the 1972 Presidential campaigns that you have not testified about 
here today ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. No, sir. 

Mr. McNelis. I would recognize that at this hour of the day, put it 
to liim that way 

Mr. DoRSEN. In case he was waiting for a question which was not 
asked, I thought 

Mr. McNelis. I would understand his answer to reflect, not at this 
time. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Realizing that the hour of the day and the amomit of 
time that has been spent, as well as the opportunities that Mr. Jacob- 
sen has had, happily or unhappily, to think about this problem, I will 
put it in that context, I still would ask him whether he has any addi- 
tional information. 

Mr. McNelis. You are talking about at this time — and frankly, we 
can leave it this way — that he feels free to call me or you people and 
advise you if he has anything to add. Is that right Mr. Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Jacobsen. Yes. Wliat was the question ? 

Mr. Dorsen. Any additional information concerning campaign solic- 
itation or contributions by the dairy industry to the 1972 reelection 
effort of President Nixon. 

Mr. Jacobsen. I do not know of any. 

Mr. Dorsen. I would be happy to leave it on that basis. 

Mr. McNelis. Surely. 

Mr. Weitz. I have no other questions. 

Mr. Dorsen. I have no others. 

Mr. Weitz. Tliank you, Mr. Jacobsen. 

[Whereupon, at 4 :40 p.m., the hearing was concluded.] 



6479 



Jacobsen Exhibit No. l 



SCOCIATED ii^ILK FRQDUCEfiSjrJC. 

PHONE A/C 512 344-1392 TELEX 76-7446 

P. O. BOX 32287 

SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 78216 



\eAf\ 



Sopteriber 18, 1 9_7P_ 

K ^- ? ? ? ^ y 1, -<.^ i-XL «?;:??«« g^: / ClS $.12,013.37 



TO THE ORDER OF 



. JACOBS^' & LO>!G 
WESTGATE 
P. 0. BOX 222 
AUSTIN, TEX.\S 78767 



ASSOCIATED MILK PRODUCERS, INC. 



■ ''^;<^ i!?=ij5i>-r^^^s^vT^n^ (O'^^^^^y^'/'^'^ 



HE ALAMO NATIONAL I 



ASSOCIATED MILK PftODUCERS, INC. 



9/11/70 



Legal Fees 
Legal Expenses 



OL 



6-08-16 
6-08-16-02 



9,500.00 
2,513.37 



6480 



JaCOBSEN a LOMC 
WEsTo^Tt 5emer.\'*'hite a Jacobsen 

P.O.Box 232 IISS FlFTEEWTM St..>sI.>«'. 

Ausri>g,TEX.«^ 7&7e>7 >X'asmivicxo^j, D. C 2000S 

512-172-1131 202-659-2900 



September 11, 1970 



Associated Milk Producers, Inc. 
Post Office Box 32287 
San Antonio, Texas 78216 

Attention Mr. Bob Lilly 



For professional services rendered as part 

of retainer for month of August, 1970 . . $2, 500.00 

Expenses 973. 35 

For professioral services rendered on behalf 

of Mid-America Milk Producers Association 5, 000. 00 

Expenses 992. 72 

For professional services rendered or. behalf 

of Dairymen, Inc 2, 000. 00 

Expenses 547. 30 

Total $12,013.37 



Thank you. 
eqb 



fi-r'-"'-'— -r—i-r-^ BY ' DATE 

CHARGE ACCOUNT NO. _ _ 

APPROVED FOR FAV.-.E.ST ^^ , . ^ . y A 

PAID — CHECK NO. O-.'J h ^ . 



Jake Jacobsen Joe R.Lonc Gary Evatt. Assoctate 



6481 



JACOBSEN EXfflBIT No. 2 
LOAN APPL.ICATION 

To be filed with Credit Uepartnient 



Name Bob A. Lilly 



AnPRESS 101 1 N ^ MilitPry t?^-^-^. '^an flnmnin, Tp 

Assistant General Manager, 
Business j ^ jin^ produccrg. Inc. 



. Date. 
. Lastr 



Amount of j 

Present debt 

Present debt direct— Unsec'd 

Less amt. participate3) 

Total— Com'l Dept. 

Installment Loan Dept. 



)*«KWftJW^x $100.000-00 
r— Sec'd $ 



Paying Record _ 

Payable 60 Days 



Date ok last statement S-25-69 

Out of our debt since 

Present debt indibect $ 

Deposit to loan ratio 



•(See Reverse) 



Purpose and Collateral: 



Secured by Citizens National Bank Certificate of Deposit No. 188 in the amount of 
$100,000.00 in the name of Milk Producers, Inc. 



Source of Repayment: 



Detail of Other 
Notes in Bank: 



COLLATERAL 



Special Comments: 

Replaced by CD #219 of T. A. P. E. 12-22-69 



Marvin M. Stetler 






/; / 



CITIZENS MAT'L ACCTS. 



I — & — E — t. 



Acer. # 
61 - 101 8 



^^il^ P-m^„rpT-i rn ^ ax 



Last mo. 3 MO. Mlv. Curbent 

■•^H e, 133.0 ^ 80,4.-^7.00 8 1.^5. 4.-?2..-^0 S 192.717.92 
.$ inn,nnn nn .$ ^^^ $ 100.000.00$ lOn.nnn.DO 

. $ $ $ $ 100.000.00 

.$ $ S .<; 100.000.00 



,437.00 235,432.50 492,717.92 



6482 



Jacobsen Exhibit No. 4 

December 17, 1969 



Associated Milk Producera, Inc. 
1011 N. W. Military Highway 
SaALAatoaio, Texas 



b 



rr^ 



^ 



F 



Attention Mr. Bob Lilly 



For professional services rendered in 

connection with Cause No. 68-H-930 

Marketing Assistance Plan, Inc. , et al 

V. South Texas Producers Association, 

et al $10,000.00 



Thank you. 



eqb 




6483 



Jacobsen Exhibit No. 5 



DEPOSITED WITH 




^■7l"vi::iTIZEI\]S NATIONAL BANK 



fcUSTIN, TEXAS 



rOR THE ACCOUNT OF 



JACOBSEN AND LONG 

P. O. Box 222 • 472-1 131 

Austin, Texas 78767 



CHECKS AND OTHER ITEMS ARE RECEIVED FOR DE- 
POSIT SUBJECT TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF 
THIS BANKS COLLECTION AGREEMENT. 



LU 
03 



IP 

a 
o 
a 

•- 
o 
o 
o 
o 
o 
a 



p 

: c 

• 'J- 


TATF 


uec 


emD 


ST i 1 1 q 


uv 


PLEASE LIST 


EACH 


TEM SEPARATELY 


ITEM 




DOLLARS 


CENTS 














c-' 


1 






HECKS 










\ ^92 1 


V ", 


'; 


10. 000 


00 


! 

r 




' 






1— 






























-, i, 


Y-:: 


', 






•■"? . 


c. 








.. . — - 


— 


- 


























































TOTAL 


DEPOSIT ► 


10, 000 


00 



. /. I .".IS r l'/mNn. r.r.i^. 

CnZCNS NaTIO.\'AL 

BAN:< of AUSTIN 

AUSTIN. T£XAS 



" 1 3 -9 



i| '^ S 1 



6484 



Jacobsen ExmBiT No. 6 



Xri 



■Ax." 



^«)^ITIZcl\IS NATIONAL BAN:< 



'o'tVSr JAKEJACOBPEN ;■ - 

n ni'^i . - I i- MrTT-Tii- 

,V-One Thousand and no/100 - 



January 8 70 



^ 



^ 1 ,000.00 






rAconsuN a.\i> i.o.vg 






;!,ll.l-53E.7i: 3E>-2&3 £« 



E.a/DDOO iOOOOQ.' 



Jacobsen Exhibit No. 7 



-<. 



1^ 

IS?""" ' 

L-One Thousand and no/ 100- 



G?)=ITI2Ei\!S NATIONAL B/.NX 



JOE R. iLONG 



January S ^^T(i_ 



JACOItSIiX AX!) i.o.w; 



\=::^V^^,/C,^ : 



.- : cy^ '-■c^-":_ 



1:1 iL, 1"' e3E,7i: 3E,"'e&3 



E,a,'-ooao iQOooo.'' 



Jacobsen Exidbit No. 8 



f -iVi^II^ITIZENS NATIONAL B; .WK 



JAKE JACOBSf.N 



^ 7, son no 



Two Thousand Five Hundred and no/ 100- 



J I 



;HM'"2iE.7i: 36-59.3 £i.' 



.iAi:<)::si;\ a.\i> i.oxo 

' ■ ■-, .--J/.' -7 



/0000 3-50DOQ.'' 



6485 



JACOBSEN EXfflBIT NO. 9 



^ 



kUu ^-t^o-sW 



AurriiJ.rayi 



.-i- -2 ID Of. ■? 7 1 <) < 





PAY TO THE 


^ITIZENS NATIONAL BANK 
JAKE JACOBSEN-'- 


February 2 


1537 

,g70_ 

t3,000.00 


i 


Three Thousand 


and no/100 




rtm 1. Ann > 


I 


....».„.,... ~«... 


-Woo-. .».— i ~a.. 


;jACOBSEN 

BE, 3 flii" 


AND LONG 1 

.'■DOOOioOOOO/ ' 


a 


1 1 ) * - ■ 1 


< 


1 1 i "~ 




; 1 i . . 




1 1 






lll,l"'S3&7': IE- 



JACOBSEN Exhibit No. 10 



CL, /l Cj^r™J 



/lM';i. rcvi 



-i :■' 1 J ;, T 7 1 s 



(^^ITIZENS NATIONAL BANK 



JOE R. LONG 



1538 



February 2 70 



^ 2, 000. 00 



Two Thousand and no/100 -:-- 



JACOBSEN AND LONG 



I i:i;m"'a3E>7i: 3e,"'ae>3 &«' 



'•DDOD?OOaOO/ 



JACOBSEN Exhibit No. 11 



C--'\r<i l.'.M!CM,M. 
l.„,K C^ AllJ.'ill 



FE'3 Z'l 70 U 5 2 5 1 



i^^ ' -NS NATIONAL B/.NK 



JAKE JACOBSEI^ 



February 23 , a 70 



.20, 000.00 



Twenty Thousand and no/100 



t 



t i: lll,l"'5 3&7i: 3&'"2E,3 fl"' 



.JACOBSEN AND J.ONG 

7 7/0a0SB600D0.'" 



no fAO.£iI-PAt THROUGH Ar*» , . 

.ANK. h>;k;r. oj m. co. p i a. -'■ 

I k ',IN AUSTIM. mXAS'i'tJ 

•■ -2(0 OeJ 2 153 



6486 



JACOBSEN Exhibit No. 12 





PAY TC 




^^^ITIZENS NATIONAL BANK 
JAKE JACq_BSEN - 


March 2 


1577 

,gJ70 

t4. 000. 00 




^ Four Th 


ousand and no/100 i..~- — 


■ ■:.:'.■'.. ■:: i'" ' ' • 










• 'J 19i/l\C0iiSKN ANU l.ONG 

jg,3 a»' /ooociiXoooo.'* 










i ^-- 1 










irtrl 




















i 1 " '" 






M:ill.l"'J3E.7': '3E," 



JACOBSEN Exhibit No. 13 



jKi-i i;iJ- 



-.•7 DO :-■'■•■ 

u .'0 1 :< 8 - ■ 



^)^ITIZENS NATIONAL BAfJK 



JAKE JACOBSEN 



© '. .-•' ;''; Juiy 14 , 
"■■'~"MTI{ -ii. rAW('6F»-l':T''.'i 



;!; 10, 000. 00 



Ten Thousand and no/100 '-'-^ Ut-lfi-lSJQ. 



1 1 


- <~\ — 


1 1 






1 






1 





w 



I ^ACOUSKN ANI> l.ONG 



/C'-UJ^/X^. 



IllM-eJE,?!: 3&-S6 3 flif 



.■•oocKiooooc 



JACOBSEN Exhibit No. 14 



/ 



(^^ITIZENS NATIONAL BAfJK 



JAKE JAbOBSENi,;' '. .. 



1836 



Five Thousand Seven Hundred Fifty ^nd n^t^/100- 



1573] 



r J^ACOHSKX AND l.ONO 



is^m -j^.£:q</^.. 



■: I ml- e3E,7i: 3&-2&3 B"' .■•ooooe^saoo.' 



^^/r^^j 



6487 



JACOBSEN Exhibit No. 15 



^=1TIZENS NATIONAL BAtJK 



1835 



^Av^TOTwe JOE R. LONG '?';/-»o.- 




^ 4, 250. 00 


CL.l'*'' ^l . 






Four Thousand Two Hundred Fifty and no/iod"-- 







^ ""<= 7/9:. 



/ '"'-^ ■ 31 .((tcOltSKN AND I.ONC; 



.A,2^ 



\ss^-^^,^^^^Q:&jmL 



; i: I mi- 2 36 7": 3&-5E.3 an- 



■onoQi^psnnn.. 



JACOBSEN EXfflBIT NO. 16 



(^J^ITIZENS NATIONAL BANK 



1920 



. Septe mber 9 ipTO 

JAKE JACQ ^S' ^N.':.. T-Av " "irVTlc '•'."■■ i 5,750.00 



/■'-..■ 

Five Thousand Seven Hup'dred If ifty ^and no/ 10 



I — r 



_^ ^fc<'. i— , SilP 1 OI9TO 

li^^ U-(4S- I I .IAL O»Sl::.\ AND LONG 



i:ilM"'S3&7i: 3E.-5E,3 flu- 



.'•a00O'S7 50OO.'' 



JACOBSEN Exhibit No. 17 



V 


Five Tho 


/^^^ 1951 

f^)=ITIZENS NATIONAL BANK 

S October 5 ,^ 70 


s 


JOE R. LONG .5,5,000.00 


: 


usand and no/ 100 no, . .=, 


J 


.. ,.,., — , .. 




5 




■* 


i 1 : : 1 - ■■ ■ '^ , 1 




; 1 \ '■- \ - ^' /J -^-v;- /■.' //^/7 1 




1 ! : 1 1 /cr.u-<-i:a.^ri,<'<^Uu<^N^.--<r \ 




I >:ilUl"'2367i: 3E.-5E.3 fl"' 7 7/0000 SQOOOO.'' ■ 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 8 



6488 



JACOBSEN Exhibit No. 18 



/ 't. / i '^ i c- .1 

■■'7/ .1 iob /H 
■ Uil : iS! 7 /^ 

. • I / . r ^ 7 i . .-< 

I ,■.■': I '■ -I -^ :'■■■ 
<■■■ / -^ . '-/ 7 ■'- 7 '''*' 

. / < ■■•<o -n A 

'■ /- / . '. i':- •* 

/. •; ^ ■, /'■" A 
{-), ; ;, s '>^ /-l 
..-^ '. ^// /i. V 

''o :.. .. . i\ 





^ 
i 


1 h -.. -A 


r. 


'■'/.-iH 


c 


/ ;'■•■, 


t 


//C,i-\ 


'S 


/ (.. ^ '•; 


L 


/'/t', 


L 


'■ /< ^.' 


L 



rut- ;\ 



'■'■•■ , 



/■/..i-J 



• , ' w ;, ■, V 7 A 

' / S 7 5 w t ■-, 5 A 
Cvca <-/-/ S i7 /-', 
•:7'7 '-.'»' '7 A 
-i S b ^ j / o b A 
o7 afe £.WOb /-V 
^-•S^JW "-13 3 a'^ 
f,'-ct- ■';7^c. /4 
^ . j i t> I i 7 /i, 

v/^y .'A 3 ii A 
•■I iw-i ^IH 10 A 
/'KW 7:J^7 '^ 
. t'u bwN A b A 
'r^"''<i WW ■>'; ''I 
';. -;^ o :.i -To'/ M 

- / ^ ^ .V 3 4 V -T /-J, 

'A I -7 1 ^Ic i 7 ,-i 

. .;;;.! 5-7 L i/6 /•! 

/iVr'/,v7& A 

•-"oOc? /7 o7 A 



-Ayy. 



,v. .,', /; 





/ 'i ' <> A 


fur, 


1 ' 1 1 '7 


/•-) C/ 


l' '/ 1*"! 


/'/o', 


' /■•-.> A 


I'll^^A 


TK-i.'^ 




.•7t--jr 



/ '• 



• ;c.-; 

/7(.') 






/" 



/" / 



/ 



6489 






/\ c// -ijc ;^ // 

/ / / rv -/^^y J 

,/ .■•7/7/ /^V '/ 
/^ /■ A ^v: ycS// 

.: c : / r/S' .-^z ri 
, • .:' .;. 7/V^7.^,V . 

/ / . ./. •, - -) ■ -' 



/. 



// 



J 



'y ■/ rf 



/7C3 /^ 

/■7C7 

/U9 

/7.<J .V 
/7l 3ri 
/■7iy 

/96J^ 

/77r7 

/7Ur/ 

/7i^^-l 

777.3.4 
/77-S'-l 

/^^J.y 
/7ii^-^ 

/y^^3.¥ 
/77.-.i 
/7i,7 



C. r3o 79 J^^ // 
/= JSV'7-/ 73/,i 
/- y/^/f-fy:'^-.-^ 
L 7j. 71- ^S'l-^ J 
7^ y-y-/'f(<- ^'^ 7i 

/ /-79 /&i>rc J 

/- y'j¥--^cc7^7 /^ 
/ /.W/v?/// 
/ 7S7?^Vr^'y-f 
/ 7?S'33 7^:,-.^ 

A c 3^9 7:i'Si /} 
& J^797/'7-7- .J 
/- //// ^jy.< W 

/^^ 77C'-j xZLi /^ 
/</^;V 7/ /.<->"../ 
^ /_'// 7c 77 .7 
/ 7///j"/.V^^ 
/f7-^7.:^-'v//// 
y. r73r^yc3J 

^^/7 ^?3lS3^ 



/T" 



7:..-7./ 
7.-V 

/:...^/V^ 

.77.3^ 

77- -V/ 

/7/ '/ 
/v. 7 

7S'. 7-^' 
/v. 7 
/•/-••■' 

/7^^// 
/ 7-' . 
7>^.. .-^ 
77- 7 

/73y 
//'.-'. 7." 



6490 



.0-^---vc"! '. / I // '■ v.r. 



■:S///. 



.7 yJ 



"D / 


/j:u-.r 


C?^/7' 


3 


r;- 


i- /v 


Ll 


^^ / /7 


L 


.• 1^ 


3'/: 


'■f t 




/. 




oi/ 


^-. 


•3 


l_; 


(-■/■ 


,7c. 


,f /^ /y- 


// 


.'■: 


~''7' 


' ■/■ 


■ ■':'./ 


/ ■ 


''//- 


/, // 


•/.' 


/ /^ 


/'. 


■ r' 


/v/. 


?/ 


^/^ 


/- 


/ . 




7. 


-,, .y 


r 


s/ 


' ~ i r 


j ^ 


7/> 


:~ 


>' ~ 


.-: .;.' 




_; 7 , y 


/ 


,.' . 


' ' 


,;i^ 


■ / // 


/ 








3./ 
- .J 


/■■- 


/:. 


i . > ': 


/ , 


JyJ 


A 


-■ / 


'/'/; 


^,' 


' // 






- - 




..Sri 


.'- 




► ■- <* 


*o 


,•'- 


/'.':■ 


: ^-r- 


r 7 


.'. J 


/ 

/- 


V ■ 


r /' .; 


"■-'i 


- T 1 


/-' 


/ 


-^ / .' 


r) 


v7/.^ 


/. 


:.[( 


'/ . - 


- ^ 


7^ .c' 



■n ./■•/^.^7/.' 



/"/i-^/l 



/- /-7 '?/■:/,-) 
J. /•• /■ ifr K'r-J /J 
S 0/.-.- /7i/ 

/2 !!-■/-- '- 7c '7::. // 
6-.'//^.:<7 7f.7.v 

/ .r y/.;r/? a:^ 
^//-^//:".£^ -■/ 
Z)--//7 7 7.:,: // 

(=r ^/^ // 7Z:^ ../ 

y.^.:sy/-^/y .■' 



7 /-■ 



/■;■/■/.' 
/7^'y 



/?v 


.-■,'/ 


//■• 


. '/ 


/■v',. • 


',7 


/f'V 




/v- 




/v.-. 




Z;-.^/ 


/ '■ 


/y c . 


J 


/y^'.' 








6491 



',/, 



///y >■/ 



/ /('"/.^ :r.v-/J /V 

A' /'/.'. y7v„?7// 

/: 7^.^c'^ 7/c^ /V 
/ /^ /<i.' •/<•■■- //V 

/ /V." 7 7r.^J^^'' 

C- '■/;■/ i^'-/ '/ S>. fJ 

J- •;/ ^-^J'" J' ^' j^ .;2 i::- // 
.//.;■■/.:.:-:-/.../ 



.V.J/'icV 




/ ' 


/'v^'-j 


^ /// ;v /'- 7 'c' 


/7^7.7 


/"fi-f 


G- /^i^ ?^?:.'o // 


/'/^■; 


/0^9 


/ 7/00 3^0'/ /-/ 


/•7r.3 .) 


/9^9 


/J ri:7S--~'-/:<^ rf 


/v^.') 


A^7 


^ ^/7y.i.V.-; ^ 


/•?S -y^ 


/^•Sori 


/7 S^oSy^7//9 


/7.<7,'/ 


/"/l^ rl 


/. ^:-'/yo7'/:.- J 


77-7/ 


z^^zA 


/- //^"/^'VJ ■/ ^ 


7^^'-:''/ 


/^/'i/^ 


/. / ^;^ 7 ^ ;?^- ^^ 


//. / 


//-'^'/' 


/ ^-^-"7/^'?--// 


/7/:y 


/C'63.-1 


/ ^'/c'c?7 7/.;/y 


/9^y 


/7^7 


/J ^y/r; :^^'r/7 


/?■ V 


/?/-'/^ 


7 oi -/i-/-:- •/7/7' 


/7c 7./ 


/;?^i./ 


/ 77-^2./^^^/-^ 


77<.7 


/?c^^ 


C- r S c- c //. 7^/ ,-/ 


77^7.7 


/^/'j.y 


c^S- 76<r-;r7 7'^'-/^'' 


/7...-./ 


/'7ci,l 


/...-:7.r--7.y 


77.7./ 


/W^ 


e- o^y/v -^^7/- 


/v^--.: 


/7^-7 


X^i-^- /J"7// /■/ 


/9i :\ / 


/vC'/ 


Z 7^7 ^7x7/^ // 


77^- -7 ^ 


/%'J/7^ 


7 ¥S'^^o^^^ ^ 


A6 •■,^' 


/v...:y 


l^n^J'^^y^i 


/>7 7 


/9^9 


■ Jr 3r -fr^'f- '/^ // 


/'/ry 


/O/? 


/ 7^-'v^.v 7y y' 


/y/-.i 


/7^^J 


(7r,:/Jji7/^c ^' 


A^yJ 



6492 



.^ / yy.A~^j ■ 

A y.y r c Jy / -:"// 
A /r/:-y7^ 
/: /r y c/y cy // 

I.) rSy 6cyo3// 
(■■ Yy-" •^v7v^.;..-.o' 

/ yy /- ■;- ...^/t' 
r -/rS-Jyr 3.-^rj 

/--' r->yy/y:r^J 
,L '■/ ..yy-Ay^J 
/'.. .^-^/y ,.yj yj ,f 
// /-.■-:::■.::/.;//; 
/-' ryyy^rjyy,^ 



.;/' 



.//o y 


/ 


/9^-y 


I 


y^c.3 4 


/ 


^yy? 


(y 


yji-c/) 


,'v 


y<y- V 


, 


/'ycy 


l^ 


/yyj.-J 


iS 


/9^-2J 




yyy.3y/ 


i> 


/U.3^ 


:. 


/>^-y 


i\ 


/^^s. 1 


i_ 


/Oyj.^ 


L. 


y9o y 


L 


yy^.s,^ 


;- 


/yy^y/ 


J 


y'yC 7 


L 


/J7.<J--/ 


!': 


/HyJ 


l_ 


yory 


ii 


/■/^j 


L 


/y^^A 


> T 


/yi^3.'i' 


l_ 


/y^sri 





< iy- y/ y/<^ /^ 



/ •' '- / 



Jr. 



- c i- :w y'l V 7 /H 

■ L'Tc,C-.'| '/ bt, /-I 

■ ^lOi 11 'tic /\ 
'-'■-J'. 3?.G^ /-i 

/ / i fe i o i I -A 
oc-^ 7 -J -li V /3 

i ''■ I '-I ^6 Li a 
■rziyi j'-!7 A 
niH-^ 'o lo lo 
/ i c -: ' 7 ^/ 7 M 

I J 'I '.J -J w 5 ^ 

■it? O I OcDl A 

^-■■1^ y 1 Z-7^1 A 
-]•''/ . ^1 u^ A 

'lyo i'lohi A 



//• y 



n (.y 

I'Ur'l 
I'lL-iM 

l'l(.':i A 

I'lG'l 

J'/l^A 
I'll'i A 
/■it.iA 

/'/bi A 
ru,', 

'■'i h', 

rihli /A 
/'/ti-. 
I'ICJ A 



6493 



f ■j'--> ibi. ~'- — . ^A-.-, 

/< ,-,.'..V ^. V7 /> 

X r / / V Jo 'i o A 

L .-•;v ,•/''.<'< A 

[_ <■■/•,:.- 1(^ 7 1 H . ., 

Cf Ol i --iW^. 7t. ,A 

/ . '•■ J I o -■/ i t b /\ 

5 ;7 // ^ /■: /V 
1 ■• 1^ I I O'/ 7 '' 
L f^rS <'>•■>(-) ,\ 

6 '■"'- -'Vi 16 A 
A f oi' .;, '/i A 

L U ^7 'X3 \ K 

,i . ,r; i II / o /:\ 

', -o . //^.-^ /\ 

i .>■--! /I' I ( r^, 



/^o. 



/y'a. 



/>C ■'/ 
/'(<.->', 

/'V< 1 
//C 
/■//-', 
/'/ i'c.i o 

/ ,1.-1 

l'iu.U 
/--«,•, 

llh'l 
lit,/ 
I ,<, , 



6 - Oir ■^i:3t . aA ■ 

^h - ( iy / ,(><,<^ i\ 
/< ■ ciio'oj-:^ /^ 

o - O'/ ', ? i. 7 /<- A 

r,, • C.i-i<-/nh ;•/ ^ 

^ - r-o^tj 5/ 7 i A 

< - r c^ - <^l';l A 

L ■ a ...■ (,'■'' -7 'A 

L ■ o J 1 1 1 ( 'j 7 H 

■^ - L'S-a'wV /s ( -'> 

L. ' >' ^-1 sa^-.<7 /i 

£ •■■"•/ ■■■■/'/ ->'/ ,4 

J} - COS y<.. -rli, iV 
.■- ■ . ' ■* I )C~I ,■) /, 
I > ■ .■ I , I ^ I -I I /\ 



IK -J t\ 

I l^.' M 
III I 

> l<r\ 

/ '■■■ ■■/ 
/ ,.,- , 



I'U-i 



I I'.-C- -A 
I I- , 



6494 



.- ri J..' ■.:■■ ■■■ , ■: A 

- r.>)7 -J /(-.-> 

• .' ' / » c- -■( r\ 

■ < -fi /■■',', o^ 4 

• ( f (■•-/. y i i ,-•1 

- , ri ) 1 'i > 'I h\ 

- < / / ; / >' i-'i M 

■ <■ I -^ ft yot, A 

- ' f '/ i .■■! < ,- /-; 
-.,'■''. Ill i h ^ 

■ < I'- ..<-a3 I r\ 

■ ■■ ■ -I 'h II a /I 

- <:.-..• .'.,<.^ 7 //.- ' -k- 

- • 'o ..-,,/, ; A 

- ■ ' - ^s • ; V / '„ ^ 

■ •■■' . ■ 7^5-7 ,i 

- c ' < .. , ,■} , ,\ 

- < ■■ J , '^ ■''• 

- ,11 O 1 '7t- /! 

- ..'■.' ■:? y^ A 



/■ 


i.'i 


\ 


/ ' 


--'/ 




/ 


;:-.< 




/ 


^-.. 


6 


/■ 


(f-' 




/ 


c i 


A 






riL- 



<i- oh; I -^7 / ^ A /.;),,,, 

L • o<.7-:.7-,-7.4 
iT CO'.' /<-//-/ /4 <. 

L - L (.-/t-.- ?77/ ''1 

iT"- oofjh o'li^ A 

.-'. - (■>7c>/ (. /ot, /A 

£ - O/ :i7 ^ V'i-J. A 

L - r l-(-. / 7 J ) 7 W 

' 1 ■■■'/i:-6 ■ ri M 
i. • "/■'•,/: I-. /, ■ . V 

L- '7 -'"//./ -' ^1 
''l - ''■ if, Jt j't'O ,-t 

K ■ <-'/ J -.Ts-yo ; /( 

i>- '..•-■-j : I -s / .\ 



I-'- li> ri^ ^7 /•; 






'.'■■ / 



A'civx^ 



. I -^o c 



6495 



o 

H 

n 

X 
X 

w 

z 

a 

CO 

CQ 
O 
O 





^:~.' h ri 





*' L ' 




1 


i; 
J 


1 






L 






1 


-- 




- 



irii8i SVX3X Niisnv 




V 



6496 



o 

;? 

Eh 

»-( 

n 

W 
X 

GO 

o 
o 

<! 
•-» 




^ 




=g<^s^^^5^:^:^^^^■^^v•^.^^\^^.\^^.\^^:^^^ 


^^ 




^g^ 


^^^^^^ 


>~]^S<^>|W 


iU^i^^32^^aiy^'^3^*Sfe 






;$«^c;pc^.^;xf3^S^2:^^ 


i.^>W^s^ ~ " ■ ■ '" 


:s^^^^;R^^c5c^i^ 


Ssi 




^^ 


?$=e^K=^s::^^s-U$5s-=^ 



o 

H 
« 

w 

12; 

OQ 
O 
O 

1-5 










^,^^s=;5~i^-;:^^^^^^: 



6497 



JACOBSEN ExraBIT NO. 23 



ASSOCIATED MILK PRODUCERS. INC. 

PHONE A/C 512 341-8651 TELEX 76 7446 

P.O. BOX 32287 

SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 78216 



N9 4419 



Febmary 8 , i9_Zi_ 



{^ 0» S 3 1 7 i. J» U U U t^ iX Ui} O C t. ^ ^; Xl.000.00 



TO THE ORDER OF 



JACD3CEN & LONG 

KCSTGATE 

F. 0. DOX 222 

AUSTItl, TEX/.S 78767 



ASSOCIATED MILK PRODUCERS, INC. 






HE ALAMO NATIONAL BANK 



ASSOCIATED MILK PRODUCERS, INC. 



1309 



6-0 



3-16-01-00 



11,000.00 



6498 



JACOBSEN Exhibit No. 24 



ASSOCIATED MILK PRODUCERS, INC. 

PHONE A/C 5:2 341-3651 TELEX 76-7446 

P.O. BOX 32287 

SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 78216 



N9 4420 



February 8, 



1140 N. ^ 



_19ji- 



Wimfm €l€MiOOets 



. g 5, 636. 00 



, jAOonss; & loii; 

WEGIGMi- 

P. 0. DOX 222 

AUSriI!, TEX,'iS 78767 



ASSOCIATED MILK PRODUCERS, INC. 



/.-'■ .?•■ f^ '•'^•■. ',■'r"v'■-^••■■• 



REMITTANCE STA 




HIS STATEMENT BEFORE OEPOSITINO CHECK 


ASSOCIATED MILK PRODUCERS, INC. 


INVOICE 


INVOICE 


DESCRIPTION 


AMOUNT OF 


DEDUCTIONS 


NET AMOUNT 


DATE 


NUMBER 




INVOICE 








1310 


Legal Fee January 1971 
Legal Fee 


2,500.00 
3,000.00 












6- 


53- 16-01-00 


5,500.00 






Legal Expenses 


6- 


33-16-02-00 


126.00 



6499 



Jacobsen a Long 



>X'ESTOATC 
P.O.BOX 222 

/\usTn-j,TtXAS 7S767 

512-472-1131 



Semer. 'White S Jacobseis; 

use FlFTEHNTH ST , N . NX'. 
^OCASHrMCTON. D. C. 20005 
202-659-2900 



Invoice No. 1310 



February 5, 1971 



Associated Milk Producers, Inc. 
Post Office Box 32287 
San Antonio, Texas 78216 

Attention Mr. Bob Lilly 



For professional services rendered as 

part of retainer for month of January, 

1971 $2, 500. 00 

Expenses 136.00 

For professional services rendered in 

excess of the amount covered by the 

retainer 3, 000.00 



Total 



$5, 636. 00 



Thank you. 



eqb 



Jake Jacobsen 



Joe R..LONC 



Gary Evatt, Associate 



6500 



o 

n 
S 

X 

Z 
H 
tn 

PQ 
O 

a 
<«: 




A 



TUESDAY, DECEMBER 18, 1973 

U.S. Senate, 
Select Committee on 
Presidential Campaign Activities, 

Washingtooi, D.C. 
The Select Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 :25 a.m., in room 
34o, Russell Senate Office Building. 
Present : Senator Weicker. 

Also present: David Dorsen and James Hamilton, assistant chief 
counsels; Alan Weitz, assistant majority counsel; Donald Sanders, 
deputy minority counsel. 

Senator Weicker. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 
Mr. Nelson. I do. 

[Whereupon, at 10:25 a.m., the hearing in the abovo-entitled mat- 
ter recessed to reconvene at 10 :40 a.m., at 129 C Street NE., the same 
day.] 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Nelson, for the record, would you state your full 
name and address, please ? 

TESTIMONY OF HAROLD S. NELSON, ACCOMPANIED BY 
JAMES W. GALLMAN, COUNSEL 

Mr. Nelson. Harold S. Nelson, 108 Cobblestone, San Antonio, Tex. 

Mr. Weitz. And would your counsel identify himself for the record, 
please? 

Mr. Gallman, James W. Gallman, 201 Northeast A. venue, Fayette- 
ville, Ark. 

Mr. Weitz. For the record, it should be noted that Mr. Nelson has 
pi'oduced for us, and we will just generally describe them at this point 
and if there is a need, the specific documents may be entered as exhibits 
later. 

A record of his — actually, copies of his long-distance charges are to 
a credit card. Am I correct ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. To a credit card, from the period January 1972 approxi- 
mately until the latest bill — it looks like October 1973. 

The second document is a worksheet, prepared by D, Kirkland, who 
I believe is an employee of AMPI, of disbursements to Harold S. Nel- 
son from AMPI for the period June 1968 through October 1972, with 
a summary at the bottom of payroll disbursements for the years, cal- 
endar years, 1968 through 1973. 

Mr. Nelson. All right ; you said through October 1972— it's through 
October 1973, 1 believe. 

(6501) 



6502 

Mr. Weitz. Well, the specific disbursements are listed as October 
1972, and then there is a summary of payroll disbursements through 
the year 1973. ^ 

Mr. Nelson, could you give us a background of your association with 
various co-ops, dairy co-ops, or associations let's say back from 1960, 
forward — the principal associations ? 

Mr. Nelson. From 1960 forward ? 

Mr. Weitz. Please. 

Mr. Nelson. If you want me to start earlier, I can. 

I'll start with 1959, the Texas Milk Producers Federation; I was 
the manager of the Texas Milk Producers Federation which was a 
federation of cooperatives marketing the milk of the in-members in 
the State of Texas. The South Texas Producers Association in 
Houston, Tex. Most of them are producers associations, in Corpus 
Christi, Tex. The North Texas Producers Association in Arlington, 
Tex. ; the Mid-Texas Producers Association in Austin, Tex., Producers' 
Association of San Antonio, San Antonio, Tex. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you affiliated with all these at the same time ? 

Mr. Nelson. All of these made up the membership of the Texas 
Milk Producers Federation. I was the manager. 

Mr. Weitz. Previous to that had you been manager of the North 
Texas Milk Producers ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Or counsel to them ? 

Mr. Nelson. That was in my capacity as manager of Texas Milk 
Producers Federation. 

Mr. AVeitz. Now you continued as manager of the federation until 
what time ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, until the federation was dissolved, technically it 
may not have been, but anyway for all ]:)ractical purposes it ceased to 
function, when MPI, Milk Producers Inc., or when AMPI Associated 
Milk Producers Inc., was formed. 

Mr. Weitz. MPI was formed in 1967 'I 

Mr. Nelson. I believe that is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. And you were general manager of that ? 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. 

Mr. Weitz. And AMPI was formed in 1969 ? 

Mr. Nelson. That's approximate — I can't give you the exact dates; 
that's about right. 

Mr. Weitz. And you became general manager of AMPI ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, in your capacity as general manager of AMPI, 
what were your responsibilities ? 

Mr. Nelson. Generally — well, the nearest, concise description I 
could give you would be chief executive officer. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you have responsibility for hiring and firing of 
employees '( 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir ; yes, sir. 

INIr. Weitz. What other types of duties? Did you have general re- 
sponsibilities for all administrative 



6503 

Mr. Nelson. General responsibility for all administrative duties. 
Mr. Weitz. Who were your assistants — at lirst Ml*l and then 

Mr. JS'elsox. Well, with MPl, we had regional managers who would 
have been Mr. l^arr, Mr. Moore 

Mr. Weitz. AMiat was Mr. Moore's full name i 

Mr. JS'elsox. Charlie — Charles Moore; Mr. Suttle and jNlr. Bart — 

lioss Bart; and Mr. J. G. Anderson. Then under those [pause]. 

Each one of these — not each one, but some of these had divisions — 
were broken down into divisions, and each one had a division manager. 

Mr. ^^'E1TZ. AMiere were you located as the general manager of Mi*l i 

Mr. Nelson. Ksaii Antonio. 

Mr. Weitz. And AMPl i 

Mr. Nelson. 8an Antonio. 

Mr. Weitz. \Mio were the officials, or assistants, in your office, or 
actually in iSan Antonio with you in MPI ? 

Mr. Nelson. Initially, there was no one, so not all of these were 
moved at the same time, this was an evolving process. But eventually, 
Mr. 13ain 

Mr. AVeitz. B-a-i-n ? 

Mr, Nelson. Yes, sir. Bob Lill}-, Lyim Elrod, Kobert Ishaiii — I be- 
lieve that's it. 

Mr. Weitz. Wliat were Mr. Lilly's responsibilities ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Lilly's responsibilities were primarily dealing with 
legislation or regulation, and so forth, more or less at the State level. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he also have some political responsibilities with 
regard to both State and Federal political activity? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you describe those, pleaise? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, it wasn't a rigidly defined thing. It was any 
activity that we wanted to be involved in concerning the election of 
State or Federal candidates. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he have what would commonly be termed as lobby- 
ing responsibilities ? 

Mr. Nelson. In a sense, yes; but in another sense, no; because at 
the national level, as I recall, he spent very little time on any national 
lobbying as such. I think that he probably spent some time in con- 
nection with the price support decision, the price support bill that 
had — let's see, what was it — 150 Congressmen — I don't know, some 
28 Senators on it. He spent some time in Washington on that. I don't 
recall that he spent much time in Washington lobbying. 

Mr. Weitz, All right. We will return to that particular area 
somewhat later. 

Mr. Nelson. All right. 

Mr. Weitz. What about Mr. Parr? 

What were his responsibilities? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Parr's responsibilities were primarily, initially 
the formation of MPI, Mr. Parr was manager of the Arkansas divi- 
sion or region. I forget what we called in at that time. 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 9 



6504 

But also, Mr. Parr was one of the — 1 guess you would call it prime 
movers in putting together MPl and AMPl, and his responsibilities 
were much broader. He became involved in, 1 would say that, in all 
phases of activities of both groups. 

Mr. Weitz. Was his title, do you recall, special counsel to you? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, it was. I believe that was after the AMPI. I 
don't think that 

Mr. Weitz. Yes, during the existence of AMPI? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And w^as he your — you say he was involved essentially 
in all phases of AMPI's activities? 

Mr Nelson. Yes. 

Mr, Weitz. Was he involved in as many activities or as broad a 
range of activities as yourself? 

Mr Nelson. Yes. 

Ml'. Weitz. A^^^s there anyone else besides you and Mr. Parr who 
had that l)road a range of responsibilities and involvement? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall in appi'oximately what year TAPE — 
Trust for Agricultural Political Education — was formed? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe 1969, but I'll tell you right now I'm not good 
at recalling dates. But I believe it was 1969. It might have been a little 
earlier. But I think it was 1969. 

Mr. Weitz. Who was responsible for its formation ? 

Mr. Nelson. I would say that — well. I don't want to be misunder- 
stood. I would say that I and others. 

Mr. Weitz. Can you mention any others who were primarily 
responsible ? 

Mr. Nelson. Primarily. I would say ]\Ir. Parr. 

Mr. Weitz. ]\Ir. Parr and yourself ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't want to be misunderstood about it. Other 
people, you know, participated, and so on. But I would say that Mr. 
Parr was the 

Mr. Weitz. All right. 

Did you consult with any others, such as attorneys for AMPI, with 
respect to — or MPI at that time, with respect to the formation of 
TAPE? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, as I recall. I think we discussed it with — I can't 
remember his name. 

Mr. Weitz. Was this an attorney for AMPI ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it DeVier Pierson ? 

Mr. Nelson. He's one it was discussed with, but he's not the one I'm 
trying to recall right now. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it Pichard Maguire? 

Mr. Nelson. That's who it was, Kichard ^Nfaguire. I discussed it with 
Richard INfaguire. I believe it was later that it was discussed with 
DeVier Pierson. And I believe we discussed it with Jake Jacobsen, 
but I'm not sure whether it was before or after the formation of it 
that it was discussed with him. 



6505 

Mr. Weitz. What was the context of your discussion, or the sub- 
stance of your discussion with Mr. Maguire? 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, about the need for this sort of thing, and about 
the mechanics involved in setting up this sort of thing, and just how 
you did it, and that sort of thing as I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. What mechanics were you concerned about in terms 
of 

Mr. Xelsox. AVell, just what was involved in setting it up, you 
Imow. Did you have to have a charter, you know, just the usual — the 
legal mechanics. 

Mr. AVeitz. Now, Mr. Isham was the sole trustee of TAPE at the 
outset ; is that true ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Under the trust agreement, did not Mr. Isham have sole 
responsibility for the disbursement of funds from TAPE 'i 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes, sir. 

]Mr. Weitz. Did he, in fact, have final decisionmaking authority 
with respect to disbursements by TAPE ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Under the terms of that agreement he did ; yes. 

Mr. Weitz. But in practical terms ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. In practical terms you mean. Who made the decision? 

Mr. Weitz. As a practical matter, who made the decision with re- 
spect to contribution? 

Mr. Xelsox. I Avould say that I did. 

^Mr. Weitz. Is tliere anyone else to your knowledge who had, as a 
general matter, responsibility or final decisionmaking authority with 
respect to those contributions? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, Mr. Lilly and INIr. Parr. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember any instances in which disbursements 
or contributions were made without you being consulted? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Xo ; I don't remember any instances. 

Let me say this. There were instances, but in tliose instances where 
it was done it was done because they knew that they had my full con- 
fidence and they wouldn't have disbursed any funds tliat they weren't 
certain in their own mind that would have met with my approval. 

Mr. Weitz. And this in general terms would have been based — 
generally would have been based upon previous discussions about such 
matters ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Previous discussions or previous expressed attitudes. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. 

If you were readily available in the office, would they have gone 
ahead and approved it without conferring with you briefly, or did 
they? 

Mr. Nelsox. I don't know. Of course, I wasn't readily available in 
the office, you know. I was gone most of the time. 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Xelsox. In addition to them, there was a committee, and you 
will have to ask Mr. — maybe you ali'eady have, but you'll have 
to ask Mr. Lilly about — there was a committee of board members who 



6506 

received reports and with whom these TAPE contributions were 
discussed. 

Mr. Weitz. The reports were reports of contributions that had been 
made, is that correct? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Were they consulted before the contributions were 
made? 

Mr. Nelson. In some instances. 

Mr. Lilly would be the one who would have to talk to you about 
that. 

Mr. Weitz. But in all instances, the decisions would either accord 
to your ])reviously expressed attitudes or would actually be at your 
authorization ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. I'm sorry if I didn't catch it before. Could you just tell 
us what your current employment is? 

Mr. Nelson. Currently? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Nelson. American Grain and Cattle. 

]Mr. Weitz. AVhat is your position? 

Mr. Nelson. Tm president of the American Grain and Cattle man- 
affement. 

Mr. Weitz. When did you cease to be the general manager of AMPI ? 

]Mr. Nelson. January 1972. 

Mr. Weitz. And you've been associated with American Grain and 
Cattle since that time ? 

Mr. Nelson. No; it's been formed since that time. Since its incep- 
tion I've been associated with it. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. And are you affiliated with AMPI in any way at 
this time? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, in any way is pretty broad. 

INIr. Weitz. Do you receive any moneys from AISIPI? 

Mr. Nelson. Not currently, not since October 1973. 

ISIr. Weitz. Now, between January 1972 and October 1973, were you 
affiliated witli AMPI and receiving compensation from them? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And what was your position? 

Mr. Nelson. It was on a contractual relationship in which I agreed 
to consult with them and not to engage in any activities that might be 
detiimental to them. 

Mr. AVeitz. And wliat was your compensation? 

Mr. Nelson. It was $100,000 a yeai', plus the fringe benefits pro- 
vided any other employee. 

Mr. Weitz. And are you still receiving compensation from them? 

Mr. Nelson. Not since October-. The last compensation was from 
October, and of course that's a matter that is presently in dispute. 

Mr. Wefiz. Is that because the contract as you interpret it was, had 
a 7-year term beginning in January 1 972 ? 



6507 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. All right. 

Let's get back to TAPE. 

Could you tell us what the substance of your discussion with Mr. 
Jacobsen was in connection with TAPE at the outset? 

]SIr. Xelsox. No; I can't, because 1 can't recall that. It just seems to 
me that we did discuss with him the need for the organization. And I 
will be candid with 3'ou. I can't tell you who it was who actually pre- 
pared the trust agreement. It was — as I recall, it was either DeVier 
Pierson, Mr. Maguire, or Jake Jacobsen, but I can't tell you which one. 
And it might have actually been some other attorney, but I don't 
think so. I think it was one of those three. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you consult with anyone else that you can recall 
outside of AMPI with respect to the formation of TAPE ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes; with Dairymen Inc. and with Mid-America 
Dairj-men. 

INIr. Weitz. Can you recall which gentlemen or persons you dis- 
cussed the formation of TAPE with ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I don't recall a specific discussion. I can tell you w'ho I 
assume we would haye discussed with. It would haye been w4th Gary 
Hanman of Mid- America and Paul Alagia of Dairymen, Inc. 

]Mr. Weitz. Was this in connection with the formation of TAPE or 
in connection with similar organizations of trusts — other coopei-atiyes ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Formations of similar trusts wnth their cooperatives. 

Mr. WErrz. Was this also in 1969 ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I think so, but I'm not certain about that. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, if the trust for IMid- America, which was originally 
called Ayery Associates and then became ADEPT — a-d-e-p-t — was 
formed in 1970. would your discussions with Gary Hanman and those 
of Mid- America have been essentially contemporaneous with the for- 
mation of their trusts? 

Mr. Nelsox. I would say so, or prior to. 

Mr. Weitz. Or prior to. 

And similarly for SPACE and for Dairymen, Inc.? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss the formation of TAPE with anyone 
else? 

Mr. Nelsox. Oh, with board members and members. I'm sure it was 
discussed even in country meetings. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss it with any government officials, either 
State or Federal ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss 

Mr. Nelsox. I may have, but- 



]Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss the formation of TAPE Avith John 
Connally? 

Mr. Nelsox. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. Jacobsen discussed the forma- 
tion of TAPE with :Mr. Connally ? 



6508 

Mr. Nelson. No, I don't. 

Mr, Weitz. Do you know Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Nelson. Let me tell you- — the answer is "Yes," I do. And I would 
like to tell you how I know him. 

Mr. Weitz. Go ahead. 

Mr. Nelson. The first time I met John Connally was about 1950 or 
1951, about there. They were having an election in Texas. He Avas then 
an administrative assistant to Lyndon Johnson, and a friend of mine. 
A dairyman, who was a director of the local milk producers associa- 
tion, came to me and asked me, did I know anything about the new 
Texas election code. I told him no, and he asked me if I could find out 
about it. And I said yes. And he said, well, they would like to retain 
me to come down to Wilson County, which immediately adjoins Bexar 
County, 80 miles from San Antonio, because they were interested in 
getting a new sheriff elected, and they were convinced that they 
wouldn't have an honest election if they didn't get educated on the 
subject of Avhat the rules and regulations concerning elections were. 
And they wanted to have some meetings. They had a committee and 
they wanted to have some meetings in various homes so as to prepare 
for the election, and also retain me to be present on election day to cope 
with any kind of court relief that might be indicated. 

So they set up one of the meetings. As I recall, I believe it was at 
the home of John Connally *s mother, because one of the people on this 
committee was his brother Merle Connally, who was a county judge of 
Wilson County. And John Connally happened to to be home at that 
time, so 1 met him then. 

The next time I met him was, as I recall, when he was a candi- 
date for Governor. And he was at one of the — well, the then-president 
of North Texas Association, W. T. Crouch, was very interested in help- 
ing him become Governor, and he had him as a guest at the annual 
meeting of the North Texas Producers Association, and I met him just 
briefly there. 

And then the next time that I recall meeting him was in March of 
1972, when — oh, there was one other time in between. They had the 
Inter-American Cattlemen's Confederation, Confederation Interna- 
tional de Ganaderos, which is a hemispheric cattlemen's organization 
of Avhich I was vice pi-esidcnt at the time. They had its annual meeting 
in San Antonio, and this has been 6 or 7 years as I recall — it might 
have been 5. And John Connally was a speaker. I don't recall — I know 
I was on the s])eakers' platform. I may ha\e introduced him, or I may 
not. But I did talk to him briefly. 

Then the next time I talked to him was in March of 1972 with Mr. 
Jacobsen and Di-. Mehren and I. 

Mr. WErrz. We will i-etui-n to that meeting later also. 

Mr. Nelson. All right. I'm just trying to 

Ml'. WiaTz. I understand. I appreciate it. 

But l)etween the times of these earlier meetings, fir^^t in the early 
1960's, then sometime in the middle of the 10(iO's. until March of 1972, 
you had no contact with the Governor ? 



6509 

Mr. Nelson. Well, through Jake Jacobsen. 

Mr. Weitz. Yes ; but directly ^ 

Mr. Xelsox. No ; thafs right. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Clili' Carter ever introduce you to Mr. Connally, or 
was he ever present when you were with Mr. Connally ^ 

Mr. Xelsox. No : 1 don't believe so. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, you talked about the advice and counsel you may 
have received from various gentlemen— Mr. Maguire, Mr. I'ierson, Mr. 
Jacobsen — with respect to the formation of TAPE. 

What advice, if any, did you receive with respect to the reporting 
requirements of TAPE i 

]Mr. Nelsox. I believe the advice as to the reporting requirements 
was given to ^Nlr. Isham. 

Mr. AVeitz. By :Mr. Pierson? 

Air. Nelsox. 1 believe by Mr. Pierson. 

Air. Weitz. Was this at the outset or close to the time when 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, I think so. Close to the time. 

Air. Weitz. And do you remember what that advice was as recounted 
to you by Air. Isham ? 

Mr. Nelsox. lie didn't go into specifics. I never did concern myself 
with all that stuff. 

Air. Weitz. 1 understand that, but — first, were you aware, for exam- 
ple, that Air. Pierson advised Air. Isham that 'TAPE was, as Mr. 
Pierson understood it, required to report to the Clerk of the House of 
Representatives under the then-existing legislation? 

Mr. Nelsox. That's my understanding. I knew that Air. Isham was 
making reports and was required to make reports to the Clerk of the 
House. 

Air. Weitz. And that was pursuant to the advice of Air. Pierson ? 

Air. Nelsox. Yes. 

Air. Weitz. Do you Iviiow whether Air. Isham consulted with Mr. 
Jacobsen — now this is Air. Isham with Air. Jacobsen — concerning the 
operation of TAPE or political contributions? 

Air. Nelsox. I don't know. He may have. I really don't know. 

Air. AVeitz. Do you know whether Air. Jacobsen ever suggested to 
Air. Isham that moneys be set aside and not reported from the receipts 
of TAPE so as to enable those affiliated with TAPE to make a non- 
reporting or nonreported political contribution from time to time? 

Air. Nelsox. No. 

Air. Weitz. To your knowledge, Air. Jacobsen never made that sug- 
gestion of Air. Isham ? 

Air. Nelsox. I'm not sure that I understand. 

Air. Weitz. Let me repeat it; it is a little complicated. Do you know 
whether Air. Jacobsen ever discussed with Air. Isham the possibility 
of making contributions from moneys received by TAPE without 
those contributions being reported ? 

Air. Nelsox. No; the only thing I recall in connection with Air. 
Jacobsen advising Air. Isham was that — I believe it was Air. Jacobsen 
who advised him that it might jeopardize — and it may have been Mr. 



6510 

Pierson who said this, but I believe it was Mr. Jacobsen — it might 
jeopardize TAPE if the contributions weren't expended and were 
placed on interest deposits so that the interest placed — the amount 
when the interest added to the contribution amounted to over $100: 
That's the only — there was a question about that. 

Mr. Weitz. My question, however, did not relate to that type of 
transaction. 

Mr. Nelson. No, I know. And I say that's the only thing I recall 
in connection with that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever discuss that possibility with Mr. Jacobsen 
of making an unreported contribution from TAPE money ^ 

Mr. Nelson. I don't recall that I did. I may have, but I don't recall 
having discussed that with him, because it was my understanding that 
all the contributions of TAPE had to be reported. 

Mr. Weitz. That was your understanding essentially from the 
outset ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, you mentioned Mr. Pierson, He had been employed 
in the White House, had he not, in 1968 ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. I would like to review some of the other attorneys who 
were then in the employ or retained by AMPI or ^SIPI. 

James Jones — was he retained l)y or employed by AMPI '? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And he also had been emploved in the White House in 
1968 ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Clifford Carter—was he also retained by :MPI or AMPI ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, but that was — he is not an attorney. 

Mr. Weitz. He was a consultant 'I 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. A lobbyist ? 

Mr. Nelson. More or less an ombudsman. 

]Mr. Weitz. With respect to political matters in Washington? 

Mi\ Nelson. With respect to regulatory anything in Washington- — 
legislative, regulatory agencies. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, Richard Maguire — he also was retained by AMPI ? 

JNIr. Nelson. Yes, he was an attorney. Now, wait a minute. I don't 
know wliethei' Ricliard Maguire was retained by A^NIPI or by Asso- 
ciated Milk Producers — one or the other. 

Mr. Weitz. AMPI is Associated ^lilk Producers, is it not ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I mean by Associated Dairymen. I'm sorry. 

Mr. Weitz. Oh, all rio-ht. 

But if the records show that he was retained by AMPI 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, it was by one or the other. 

Mr. Weitz. Ted van Dyk Associates, he also was retained by AMPI ? 

INIr. Nei,son. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. ]Mr. Jacobsen's two firms wcic retaiiied by A^NIPI, is that 
correct — one in Austin, one in Washington ? 

Mr. Nelson. Right. 



6511 

Mr. Weitz. The one in Austin was Jacobsen & Long? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. WErrz. And the one in Washington was Semer, White & Jacob- 
sen ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, I don't know the second name that you men- 
tioned. I know the names Semer and Mr. Jacobsen. Right. 

Mr. WErrz. And both Mr. Jacobsen's Washington hrni and Austin 
firm were retained by AjNlPI ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Right. 

]\Ir. Weitz. What type of work did Mr. Jacobsen do for AMPI? 

Mr. Xelsox. A^"elh Mr. Jacobsen did anything Ave called on him to 
do. For instance, he talked to Mr. Connall}' about problems ayc had, 
such as the support price matter, imports, or whatever. Mr. »Tacobsen 
attended and made speeches at meetings, both country and general. 

]Mr. Weitz. IIow about jNIr. Semei-? What was his function or re- 
sponsibilities for AMPI^ 

]Mr. Xelsox'. The only thing — now, there may have been something 
else. I won't say that — but the only thing that I really recall jNIr. Semer 
being involved in is when I asked oNIr. Jacobsen if he knew someone we 
could get who could give us an entree with the administi'ation where 
Ave could get our story heard. 

]Mr. Weitz. .Vnd Avhat Avas his response ? 

Mr. Xelsox. You Avant me to go into that now ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes ; Avhy don't we. 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, ]Mr. Jacobsen said "Xo'' ; but he would try to find 
out — he would see. And he came back and he said he had talked to 
JNIilt Semer, and that he had talked to John jNIitchell, Avhom he kneAV, 
and that John ]\Iitchell had suggested Herb Kalmbach. 

Mr. Weitz. Xow, had you asked anyone else for similar advice, or to 
find out similar information for you ? 

Mr. XELS0X^ Well, as I recall, Ave had asked Cliff Carter. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he give you any type of response ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, it was as a result of the conversation Avith Cliff 
Carter that Ave Avoimd up retaining Marion Harrison. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that during the same time period when Mr. Semer 
was making contact Avith Mr. Mitchell and reporting back to you 
through ]Mr. Jacobsen ? 

]Mr. Xelsox'. Well uoav. I can't tell you. One may have preceded 
the other. 

Mr. Weitz. All right. 

XoAv, Avith respect to the contact Avitli Mr. Mitchell, Avho did you 
talk to about ]Mr. Seiner's contact? 

Was it Mr. Seiner directly or iSIr. Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. I talked to ]Mr. Jacobsen about it. 

Mr. Weitz. So Mr. Jacobsen essentially reported back to you as 
to the success or the contacts being made by ]\Ir. Semer on your behalf ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Right. I may — that is as I recall it — I may haA^e actu- 
ally talked to Semer, but I belicA^e it Avas Mr. Jacobsen coming back 
and telling me. 



6512 

Mr. Weitz. And if you talked to Mr. Semer, was Mr. Jacobsen 
usually in your presence or aware of the contacts and the information 
you were receiving from Mr. tjemer, his partner 'i 

Mr. Nelson. Well, not always. He may have been aware, but I'm 
talking about — he wasn't always in the presence. Later Mr. Semer- — 
I believe it was Mr. Semer who went with Mr. Parr and me to see Mr. 
Dent. 

Mr. Weitz. We'll get to that in a minute. 

That was sometime later, though. That was also in 1969, after some 
contact with Mr. Kalmbach, was it not ? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe so ; yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there anyone else that Mr. Semer contacted be- 
sides the contact with Mr. Mitchell, and eventually contacts with Mr. 
Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Dent. 

Mr. Weitz. In the administration ? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe that's right. I believe it was Mr. Dent. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he contact Mr. Gleason also ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes; and I believe he also went with us to see Mr. 
Gleason. I may be wrong. It may be he didn't go with us to see Mr. 
Dent, and it was Mr. Gleason. But I believe he went with both. 

Mr. Weitz. Let's take it one at a time. 

You talked with Mr. Mitchell, who suggested that you or someone 
on your behalf contact Mr. Kalmbach, is that correct ? 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, do you know what Mr. Semer told Mr. Mitchell 
as to what it was that you wanted ? 

Mr. Nelson. That we wanted to find somebody who could open some 
doors, so to speak, so that we could present our story, our position, in 
the administration, and we had no one to wdiom we could talk at the 
White House level. 

Mr. Weitz. And Mr. Mitchell suggested that you contact Mr. 
Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes ; that's my understanding. Mr. Mitchell gave Mr. 
Kalmbach's name to Mr. Semer. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, what was Mr. Kalmbach's position in the admin- 
istration at that time ? 

Mr, Nelson. He had none as far as I knew. The position that I un- 
derstood he had was not in the administration. I understood that he 
was the President's personal lawyer. 

Mr. Weitz. Was he also involved in fundraising ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, yes; but I don't view that as — I didn't view that 
as being within the administration. 

Mr. WErrz. Neither was attorney for the President a title within the 
administration either? 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. 

jNIr. Weitz. Do you knov,' why it was suggested, or foi' what purpose 
you were to speak to Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr, Nelson, To aceoini)lisli the ])urp<)S(> of getting some doors 
opened for us. 



6513 

Mr. Weitz. "Well. Mr. Mitchell — 3'ou made the request to Mr. 
Mitchell. Could he not have seen to it that doors were opened to you at 
the White House i 

Mr. Nelson. I assume that ho could have. Of course, we didn't 
know him, von understand. 

;Mr. AVeitz. Mr. Seiner knew him, didn't he ? 

]Mr. Xelsox. Mr. Seiner knew him. Of course, they Avere of opposite 
political persuasions, the way I understand it. But Mr. Semer had 
had some position in some reg^idatory agency — I don't know Avhich 
one — that 5lr. ^litchell as a private attorney had dealt with, or they 
had known each other before. And I don't mean that they were, you 
know, long intimate friends or auA'thing, but they did know each 
other. And so that's why Milt Semer went to him to ask him. you know, 
what to do. 

Mr. WErrz. And he was told to contact Mr. Kalmbach. 

I take it Mr. Kalmbach and Mr. Semer were also of opposite politi- 
cal persuasions i 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes, sir. 

]Mr. Weitz. What was the purposes of contactings 

Mr. Xelsox. It was my understanding that Mr, Semer did not know 
jNIr. Kalmbach at this time. 

Mr. Weitz. What Avas the purpose of contacting ]Mr. Kalmbach? 
Wasn't it to make a political contribution ( 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, the purpose Avas to try to see Avhat could be done 
to get Mr. Kalmbach to open the doors. 

^Ir. AA^EiTz. Was it contemplated by you or anyone else at AMPI 
that a contribution should be ma<le in order to facilitate that effort? 

Mr. Xelsox. We assumed that there aa-ouIcI be some contributions 
made. 

Mr. Weitz. Wasn't that the reason you thought you Avere put in con- 
tact Avith Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Xelsox. We didn't know Avhether it Avas that or for fees at the 
time. We didn't know Avhether it Avas a fee or a contribution. 

Mr. Weitz. What do you mean by fees ? 

Mr. Xelson. Lawyers' fees. 

Mr. Weitz. Are you suggesting that you thought that you Avould 
be asked to retain Mr. Kalmbach — AMPI Avould be asked to retain? 

Mr. Xelsox"^. That's one of the possibilities that — yes, Ave Averen't 
sure. 

Mr. Weitz. Hoav Avould he eft'ect your access to the administration ? 
Mr. Kalmbach Avould act on your behalf as your attorney? 

Mr. Xelsox. Mr. Kalmbach or someone associated Avith him. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. Xoav, could you tell us what transpired in that 
context? Hoav many contacts AA-ere there, do you knoAv, betAveen Mr. 
Semer or anyone else on your behalf in 1969 and ]\Ir. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Well, no. I don't. I don't knoAv hoAv many contacts. I 
knoAV that Mr. Semer came back and said that it had been suggested 
that he see Mr. Kalmbach. As I recall, at the time he didn't tell us 
it Avas Mr. Kalmbach. He said, "See a California laAvyer." He may 
have said "Kalmbach.'' I don't really think so at that time. And I 



6514 

don't know whether he told Mr. Jacobsen or whether he told me. I 
rather think it was Mr. Jacobsen that he told. 

And so we said, go ahead and see, which he did. And then, as I 
recall, he came back and said if we want to go forward with tlie rela- 
tionship, that we should deliver $100,000 in cash. 

Mr. Weitz. This was Mr. Kalmbach's suggestion to Mr. Semer ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Wliich Mr Semer in turn related to yon? 

Mr. Nelson. Related to me. 

Mr. Weitz. Through Mr. Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Nelson. Either way. He may have related it to me personally. 
It was either through Jacobsen or personally. I don't recall which it 
was. 

Mr. Weltz. Now, before Mr. Semer made contact with Mr. Kalm- 
bach, did he tell you what Mr. Mitchell had suggested? First of all, 
were there any 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, he told us that Mr. Mitchell had — as I recall, he 
said that he went to Mr. Mitchell. I don't remember whether at that 
time he told me that, or whether I found that out after we got in- 
volved in all of this, and I started tiying to recall them talking to 
them about how it happened. It may l)e that I found out that it was 
actuall}^ Mitchell that he talked to after I first talked to you, or just 
prior to that sometime. Anyway, it is my present undeistanding that 
^litchell is who he talked to. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. Mitchell suggested or dis- 
cussed anything else with him besides contacting ]Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, you say it was — the two possibilities, as you un- 
derstood it in contacting Mr. Kalmbach, was either a contribution to 
Mr. Kalmbach or perhaps legal fees retaining him ? 

Mr. Nelson. I wasn't sure at the tiuie, as I recall, whether the inoney 
was going as a political contribution or whether it was going to be a fee. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, who did you discuss these possibilities with? 

Mr. Nelson. It would have been with either ^iv. Jacobsen or Mr. 
Semer. 

Mr. Weitz. Anyone else ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't recall anyone else. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, when you say as a fee, who was to retain — who 
would have been paying the fee ? 

Mr. Nelson. We would have been paying the fee. 

Mr. Weitz. "We" meaning whom ? 

Mr. Nelson. Associated INIilk Producers. 

Mr. Weitz. T see. 

Now, when Mr. Semer brought back this information to you, did he 
tell you anything else about his contact with Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't recall that he did. 

Mr. Weitz. So all he related to you was that Mr. Kalmbach had re- 
quested the $100,000 contribution. ' 

Did he use that term, or did he use the term "'pavmcnt," or just 
$100,000? - 



6515 

Mr. Nelsox. I don't recall, he may have. Like I say, I don't recall. 
But it was $100,000 in cash. 

Mr. Weitz. That it be delivered to Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. And as I recall, at the time I don't even know that 
he told me it was Kalmbach at that time. Later I knew it was. 

Mr, Weitz. To this California lawyer ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. Later I knew it was Kalmbach, but at the time, I 
don't recall. I don't really believe he did. He may have. But just as 
my memory serves me, at that point I didn't really know it was 
Kalmbach. 

INIr. Weitz. You knew that he was a California lawyer who was in 
some way affiliated with the White House or the President? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

INIr. Weitz. That was sufficient for you at that time ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, when i\Ir. Semer reported this back to you, did 
that resolve the ambiguity, or did there still remain an ambiguity as 
to what you would do in terms of delivering the money ? 

I mean, in other words, did you understand it to be a contribution as 
opposed to a legal fee ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, we understood it could be, as I recall we under- 
stood it to be — Ave weren't sure what they were going to do with the 
money. 

Mr. Weitz. What was this California lawyer going to do for you 
if, in fact, it was a legal fee t 

]\Ir. Nelson. It was going to have the same result, whether it was 
a contribution or a fee. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, not exactly. Who was going to keep the fee ? 

]Mr. Nelson. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. What was the money for ? 

Mr. Nelson. The money was to try to open some doors so we could 
get ^ 

]Mr. Weitz. All right. That was the result you hoped you would ob- 
tain by giving the money to them ? 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. 

^Nlr. Weitz. AVliat was to be done Avith the money if it was a legal 
fee as opposed to a contribution? Presumably, there would be a dif- 
ferent use made of the money. 

Mr. Gallman. How in the world does he know, Mr. Weitz, what 
he's going to do with it ? 

]Mr. Weitz. I'm asking what you were told or what you understood. 

Mr. Nelson. I wasn't told anything specific. As I recall, it Avas a 
very ambiguous thing. I assume that it Avas — you see in my OAvn mind 
I thought it Avas a contribution. I figured that, and that is the reason 
Ave initially took that money out of TAPE to pay it. 

Mr. Weitz. All right. And Avlien Mr. Semer reported this back to 
you, Avhat steps did you next take ? What next happened Avith respect 
to these contacts? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, this is going to sound strange to j'ou, but actual- 
ly for scA-eral months thereafter I figured Ave had just paid the money 
and nothing had happened. 



6516 

]\Ir. Weitz. Well now, let me ask. I am asking: with respect to pay- 
ment of the money. How was the money actually delivered? 

]Mr, Nelson. Oh, I misunderstood your question. You're still on it. 

Mr. Weitz. Before the payment, leadings up to the payment. 
■ Mr. Nelson. All right. 

Well, Mr. Lilly took the money to Mr. Semer, I believe. Now, I 
believe this was the way it was done — to Mr. Semer in Dallas. Mr. 
Semer met him in Dallas. Mr. Semer delivered the money to 
California. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, in advance of that, did any meetings take place 
between you and INIr. Parr and "Sir. Jacobsen to discuss this matter? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't believe any meetings took place. I don't believe 
any meetings took place with Mr. Parr on that. They might have, 
but I 

]Mr. Weitz. Did you meet with Mr. Parr, Mr. Jacobsen, Mr. Semer 
in the Executive Inn in Dallas just before one of Mr. Semer's trips to 
Califoi-nia? 

]Mr. Nelson. I don't remember. We could have, but I don't remember 
that. As a matter of fact, I don't believe I even went to Dallas. I think 
Ml'. Lilly took the money. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, I'm not talking about the delivery of the money. 

In advance of the delivery of the money to discuss a meeting be- 
tween — an upcoming meeting between Mr. Semer and Mr. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't recall that meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Besides that specific meeting, do you recall conferring 
with Mr. Jacobsen and Mr. Parr about these contacts in advance of the 
delivery of the money ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I recall conversing with ]\Ir. Jacobsen. 

Mr. Weitz. And Mr. Semer ? 

Mr. Nelson. And Mr. Semer — both. 

Mr. Weitz. What about Mr. Parr? 

Mr. Nelson. You see, the logical thing is that Mr. Parr — I would 
have, because I conferred witli him on almost everything. But I have 
no specific recollection of discussing this with Mr. Parr, or a meeting 
in the Executive Inn. I don't remember ever meeting Mr. Semer in the 
Executive Inn in Dallas. My recollection is that all of the meetings I 
had with Mr. Semer were actually in Washington, but I was in an 
awful lot of meetings, so I may well have met hiuL But I sure don't 
rememl)er. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Who arranged for the — whei'e was the money taken 
from? 

Mr. Nelson. From Austin, Tex. 

Mr. Weitz. '\^^lat was the source of the funds ? 

Mr. Nelson. The TAP!" account at the Citizens' National Bank. 

Mr. Weitz. That was the bank where TAPE kept its account? 

Mr. Nelson. Right. 

Mr. Weitz. And Mr. Jacobsen was chaiiinan of the board of that 
bank? 

]Mr. Nelson. He was a major .stockholder, and I don't know whether 
he was chairman of the board. 



6517 

Mr. Weitz. "\'\Tio arranged to have the money withdrawn? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe Mr. Lilly. Well, after we talked to Mr. Jacob- 
sen and the rest of it was handled by Mr. Lilly and somebody at the 
bank. 

Mr. "Weitz. Was ]\Ir, Jacobsen also involved and aware of the trans- 
action? 

Mr, Xelsox. It is my recollection that he was, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Isham involved in it in any way? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes, ]Mr. Isham was aware. 

]Mr. Weitz. Before the money was withdrawn he was aware of the 
transaction ? 

^Ir. Xelsox. Yes, I'm sure he was. 

^Ir. Weitz. And the money was withdrawn from the TAPE account? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And it was delivered to Mr. Semer ? 

^Ir. Xelsox. It was delivered to Mr. Lilly, who then delivered it to 
'Mr. Semer. 

Mr. Weitz. Who then delivered it to ^Ir. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. X^ELSox. That's my — yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was a receipt obtained from Kalmbach ? 

]\Ir. Xelsox. I don't know. I don't think so. 

]Mr. Weitz. Was there evev any discussion, either before the money 
was delivered, as to, first of all. the reason it was to be made in cash? 

If your answer is yes by shaidng your head, could you tell us what 
discussion took place? 

Mr. X^ELSox. 'So, I don't recall any discussion other than — I remem- 
ber that crossing my mind that either, if it is a fee, they don't want 
to be identified with us, and if it's a political contribution they don't 
want to report it. 

]Mr. Weitz. One way or the other they didn't want it to be known ? 

]Mr. Xelsox. That's right. 

]Mr. Weitz. "V^Hiatever form it took. 

^Ir. Xelsox'. That's right. 

]Mr. Weitz. Xow, we discussed before that ]Mr. Pierson had advised 
Mr. Isham, and you were aware, that as a general matter TAPE, as 
Mr. Pierson understood it, had to report to the Clerk of the House 
under then-existing law? 

^h\ Xelsox. That's right. 

Mr. Weitz. And are you familiar with, or were you familiar at the 
time of the Corrupt Practices Act ? 

]Mr. Xelsox'. X'o, I wasn't. But I am now. Well, I don't want to say 
"familiar." I'm no expert, but I am aware of it. 

Mr. Weitz. Xow, at the time this contribution or this payment was 
made, and you understood that the money was to be delivered in 
cash so that somehow ]Mr. Kalmbach or the President would not be 
associated with Associated Milk Producers, what did you contemplate 
would be done with i-espect to the rej^orting requirements of TAPE? 

]\Ir. Xelsox. Well, I had actuallv in the back of my mind hoped that 
we would be able to — after we had done it, be able to get them to give 
us some information or something that we could use to report. But it 
became obvious — we heard nothing after we made that. 



6518 

Mr. Weitz. But wasn't it also made clear to you at the outset before 

the payment ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, it was. 

Mr. Weitz. That they did not want it reported ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir ; it sure was. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know if anyone on your behalf, either Mr. 
Semer or Mr. Jacobsen or anyone else, ever asked for information 
from Mr. Kalmbach in order to enable TAPE to report the contri- 
bution ? 

Mr. Nelson. I think they did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Either before or after the contribution was made? 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it, in fact, a contribution or was it a legal fee? 

Mr. Nelson. Since then I have been told that it was a contribution. 

Mr. Weitz, Well, I don't understand. In other words, if it was a 
legal fee, was TAPE going to pay $100,000 as legal expense ? Was that 
what you contemplated? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, there is probably some wisliful tliinking in that 
deal about the legal fee. I tliink that TAPE could have paid a legal fee, 

Mr. Weitz. Of $100,000? 

Mr. Nelson. Of whatever. 

Mr. Weitz. For access by AMPI to the administration? 

Mr. Nelson, If it were in fact a legal fee, I think they could. 

Mr. Weitz. If in fact it were a legal fee? 

Mr. Nelson. I think so. 

Mr. Weitz. And then it would bo a legitimate expenditure by 
TAPE, and it would not be a corporate expense or something con- 
nected with the business activity of AMPI? 

Mr. Nelson. Actually, I think the corporation itself could have 
paid the legal fee. 

Mr. Weitz. But the money was withdrawn from TAPE? 

Mr. Nelson. The money was withdrawn from TAPE. 

Mr. Weitz. So at the outset the transaction appeared to be a 
contribution from TAPE of $100,000 in a manner in which it was 
made clear to you at the outset was not intended to be reported? 

Mr. Nelson, That's right. 

Mr. Weitz, At least the recipient did not want it reported ? 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. 

Mr, Weitz, Do you know wliat Mr. Kalmbach did with the money? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I don't, 

Mr, Weitz. Do you know whether he received any other amounts 
in cash from any other persons or organizations? 

Mr, Nelson, No. 

Mr. Weitz, Now, in gathering the cash together, do you know of 
any prejiaration on the part of AMPI or TAPE or anyone at the 
bank to ol)tain bills in such n manner so that the $100,000 transaction 
could not be traced? 

Mr. Nelson, No, I don't know anvthing about that. 

Mr. Weitz, Do you know of any instructions tn that effect? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 



6519 

Mr. Weitz. Did anyone ever tell you of any such arrangement? 

Mr. Nelson. Not that I recall. I don't recall any. 

Mr. Weitz. So to your knowledge the transaction would be readily 
reportable and readily traceable in the bank's records? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. I think the transaction would be right there in 
the bank's records where you could find it. 

Mr. Weitz. In what form did the $100,000 take— what size bills? 

Mr. Nelson. I can't tell you that. Mr. Lilly could tell you, but I 
can't. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Jacobsen also ? 

Mr. Nelson. I assume that he could. I don't know who actually 
handled it out there at the bank. I doubt that Mr. Jacobsen could tell 
you, you know, the size of the bills. He might. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you aware at the time of the transaction that a 
contribution in excess of $5,000 to any one political candidate or 
committee in any 1 year was prohibited b}^ Federal law? 

Mr. Nelson. 1 believe I was. I don't recall specifically, but I think 
I was aware of it. 

Mr. Weitz. Can you explain to us why the contribution was made 
nonetheless in that form and in that amount? 

Mr. Nelson. Just out of — it was made just like a lot of other con- 
tributions were made, just borne out of desperation in trying to deal 
with the administration. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it ever made — were you ever led to believe or 
understand, or was that the natural consequence of this transaction, 
that this money was necessary in order to successfully gain access to 
the White House or someone in the administration? I mean, was that 
your understanding of the transaction ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, let's put it this way. We hadn't been able to gain 
access. 

Mr. Weitz. And you were told to contact Mr. Kalmbach, and he 
told you, or he told Mr. Semer, that $100,000 should be delivered to 
him in cash ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is my understanding ; yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Is it your understanding, then, that that was part of 
the process of obtaining access to someone in the administration? 

Mr. Nelson. We hoped that it would result in that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did jNIr. Semer report back to you about anything with 
respect to the deli^'ory of the money, or did you iniderstand from any 
source what happened with respect to the delivery of the money? 

Mr. Nelson. I understood it had been delivered to the California 
lawyer, and later I learned — as I recall, I don't believe at the time 
they told me his name. They may have. But anyway, I miderstood 
that it had been delivered. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, following delivery of that money, did you become 
aware of any contacts or any greater access to anyone in the adminis- 
tration ? 

Mr. Nelson. That's what I started to say earlier when I misunder- 
stood your question. 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 10 



6520 

It seemed to us then that nothinf>: was ha])poiiin<r as a result of 
that. But since then, just by readino- ]Mihlished accounts, wliy, in 
retrospect I woukl tie the fact that we did see Mr. Dent. 

Mr. Weitz. That was sometime shortly after the deli\'ery of the 
money ? 

Mr. Nelson. I can't tell you just how — not a whole lot of time 
elapsed. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you see him with Mr. Semer ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I believe Mr. Semer and ^Iv. PaiT. 

Mr. Weitz. And yourself — met Harry Dent in the White House, in 
his White House office ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes ; in his office. 

Mr. Weitz. The Executive Office Buildin<i: ? 

Mr. Nelson. No; as I recall his office — I may be wrona- al)out this — 
but as I recall, his office w^as in the East Wing: of the White House 
when we saw him. It wasn't in the Executive Office Buildino;. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, if INIi-. Semei'"s records indicate that he met with 
Mr, Dent on Auo;ust 19, 1909. which Avould have l)een a]^])roximately 
21/2 weeks after the delivery of the money to ]Mr. Kahnl)ach, does that 
refresh your recollection as to the time you met with ]\Ir. Dent and 
Mr. Parr? 

Mr. Nelson. I'm sure that's when I was there. 

Mr. Weitz. What was discussed at the meeting- with Mr. Dent? 

]Mr. Nelson. I believe that we discussed some problems that we had. 
I can't recall what specific ju'oblem we were tallcino- about then. It 
]:>robably had to do with import reoulations or tariffs, or something 
like that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did anyone at tliat meetincf 

Mr. Nelson. It would have been on dairy ]n'ol)lems. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it your uuderstandini:-, then, that Mr. Dent was 
Cfoino- to be your contact or the person that you could reach in the 
White House with respect to dairy ])rob1ems? 

Mr. Nelson. No. It would just — it was just kind of ho])ed that maybe 
he would. 

Mr. Weitz. Did INIr. Semer or Mr. Dent or anyone else indicate at 
the meeting' that you were supporters of the President? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe that at the meeting it was indicated that we 
wanted to supi)oi't the President. You see, we were always very candid 
about it, that we were Democrats who had a ti-ack record that, you 
know, couldn't be denied. That was, dependino; upon your political 
persuasion, that is a cross that you had to beai'. And so we made no 
bones about the fact. But we also told him that we wanted to support 
the President and that we would su})))ort the President. 

Mr. Weitz. But there Avas no indication to your recollection that 
you were supporters of the President? 

Mr. Nelson. That we were at that time? No. T wouldn't sav so. 

Mr. Weitz. What about the $100,000 contribution ? 

Mr. Nelson. That was a payment. As far as I recall, that $100,000 
was never mentioned bv anybody. 



6521 

Mr. Weitz. N"o: not specifically. But didn't that make you sup- 
porters of the President ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Oh, you mean — 3'es: it did. It did in our view. But I 
don't tliink that — T am quite sure that at that point they didn't con- 
sider us to be sup]5ortcrs. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Did you ever meet with Mr. Gleason? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr.WETTz.Inl9B9? 

Mr. Xelsox. "Well. I can't tell you the date. But I tell you, I believe 
"we met with Mr. Gleason more than once. And as I recall, it was either 
very shortly after or maybe a little before meetinof with Mr. Dent. 

Mr. "Weitz. Xow, let me show you a letter. It is a letter from Jack 
Gleason to ]\[ilt Semer, dated September 16. 1069. 

Have you ever seen this letter, or a copy of it ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I will put it this way. I do not recall having seen it, 
and I do not recall ever havin<r suo-ffested to anybody to serve on such 
boards. AYe may have, but T do not recall. 

Mr. AYeitz. Do you recall in 1969, for example, an effort to have Mr. 
Xixon attend and speak at some tj^pe of dairy meeting or convention 
in Fayetteville ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo ; it is 

Mr. YV.iTz. I am not sure whether it is Fayetteville. Ark., or In- 
diana, or some other Fayetteville. 

Mr. Gallmax. He came to the football game there once. 

Mr. Xelsox. I was there when he came to the football game. I did 
not see him, but I did go to that football game. 

^fr. "\Yeitz. AYas that in 1969 ? In connection with his attendance at 
that football game, or that weekend, was there any attempt to have 
liim meet or address any dairy meeting that you know of? 

Mr. Xelsox. As far as I know, there was not even a dairy meeting 
tliat week. Y> flew to tlie game from San Antonio. We were not attend- 
ing any dairy meeting or anything. 

Mr. AYeitz. And you recall no meetings in December 1969 in Fayette- 
ville for which an attempt was made to have the President attend and 
speak to the meeting ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo ; T sure do not. I just do not recall. 

Mr. AYeitz. AYas the $100,000 the first payment in 1969 to either a 
fundraiser for the Pi'esident or some other representative of the Presi- 
dent from A:\rPI or TAPE ? 

^Ir. Xelsox. Are you talking about a different amount now? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes: other than the $100,000, was there any other pay- 
ments to the President in 1969 ? 

Mr. Xki.sox. 1969? 

Mr. Y^EiTZ. Yes; or a Republican fundraiser on behalf of the Presi- 
dent ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, if you have a date, or can tell me the kind of 
function. 

Mr. Y'eitz. Do vou recall a dinner in 1969, which you attended? 

Afr. Xelsox. I attended a lot of dinners. 

Mr. AVeitz. A Republican fundraising dinner? 



6522 

Let me show yon a copy of the check from Milk Producers, Inc., to 
you for $5,000, and tlie request for check indicates i-eimbursement for 
expenses in connection with "\yashin<>;ton, D.C., dinner, and then at- 
tached to it is a letter from you to Republican victory dinner. May 1, 
1969. 

"Enclosed is a check in the amount of $5,000 for five tickets to the 
victory dinner to be held on May 7," and so forth. Have you ever seen 
either that check or the attached letter? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, I have seen both. 

Mr. Weitz. And was that a Xixon victory dinner, as I recall ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. As it indicates on there ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Gallman. May I see that ? 

Mr. Weitz. Now, in the attached letter, it indicates that two of the 
five tickets were to 0:0 to Mr. Bryce Plarlow and his wife. Who ar- 
ranged that ? 

Mr. Nelson. I would say Mr. Marion Harrison. 

]\fr. Weitz. You had no direct contract with Mr. Harlow before the 
dinner ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, and not at the dinner. 

Mr. Weitz. You did not meet or see him at the dinner ? 

Mr. Nelson. Now, wait a minute. I might have said, "How do you 
do," but he was not at the table or anythino;. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. Was Mr. Harrison retained by A]\IPI at the time? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe so. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, did you pay for the tickets originally out of your 
own funds? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I wrote a check for the payinents, and then I was 
reimbursed. I had totally forgotten that until I got this list from 
AMPI of payments to me, and Mr. Sale showed me these instruments. 

Mr. Weitz. And T gather the pavment to you of $5,000 on June 7, 
1969— is this $5,000 payment indicated by this check? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Am I correct in saying then that MPT paid for tickets 
to this dinner — this fundraising dinner? 

Ml'. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. AMPT is a corporation — T am sorry, MPT made the 
payment. MPI at the time was a corporation ? 

Mr. Nelson. It was either A^NIPI or MPI. 

Mr. Weitz. This is MPI. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. It was a corporation at that time ? 

Mr. Nelson. A cooperative ; that is right. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you familiar at that time with a prohibition 
against corporate contributions to committees or political campaigns? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. Actually, we were or I was, but we did not view 
those dinners and that sort of thing as being — it is probably very naive 
on our part, but wo did not view dinners as being political contribu- 
tions, CA^en though they were political in nature. I am not arguing 
the point with you. I am just telling you about the climate. 



6523 

Mr. Weitz. But you are aware tliat TAPE from time to time has 
purchased dimier tickets for fundraising dinners, and has re^^orted it 
a.3 a political contribution? 

Mr. Xelsox. That is right, that is right. 

Mr, Weitz. Did you discuss with anyone either before or after this 
dinner, other than what you have already told us, of your hope that 
your participation at this dinner would in some way lead to greater 
success to the administration? 

Mr. Nelsox. It probably was with several people. I do not recall 
any specific discussions, because it was a new experience for us to 
attend Republican fundraising dinners. 

Mr. "Weitz. Did Mr. Harrison, to your knowledge, discuss, either 
with Mr. Harlow or anyone else, the possibility of access to the ad- 
ministration b}^ the dairy people? 

Mr. Nelsox. He probably did, but I do not have any specific knowl- 
edge. 

Mr. Weitz. Why did you have Mr. Semer act on your behalf, either 
first with Mr. Mitchell, other than because of his original contact 
with him, and then with ]Mr. Kalmbach when you had hired Mr 
Harrison, who was of the same political persuasion as the administra- 
tion? 

Mr. Xelsox. Mr. Harrison was getting no place. 

Mr. Weitz. Who did he talk to ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. But he was attempting to reach people in the adminis- 
tration on your behalf? 

Mr. Nelsox. He was, yes. but we were not getting any place, 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know who he tried to contact? 

Mr. Nelsox. No, I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. But he was trying to reach people on your behalf, and 
was not being successful ? 

Mr. Nelsox'. Mr. Harrison later was very effective because he be- 
came knowledgeable on a subject that requires a lot of expertise in 
dairy, insofar as support and imports and so forth were concerned. 
And he became very effective; he could write ver}^ effective memos, 
and do it with considerable expertise. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, you said that the reason the payment was made 
was that you hoped that as a result you gained greater access. In 
your deposition in the case of Nader v. Butz, I believe the date was 
sometime in February 1973. 1 believe. 

Mr. Nelsox. That is about right. 

Mr. Weitz. February 7, 1973, on page 4 and — pages 4 and 5 of your 
deposition, you were asked, "Did you feel that the establishment of a 
program of political contributions would give you access to elected 
officials?" And your answer was, "Not necessarily. I do not recall ever 
having had any great difficulty in getting access to an elected official." 

Would vou care to say that that did not applv to the administration 
in 1969? 

Mr. Nelsox. That is right. It did not apply. 

Mr. Weitz. It did not apply ? 



6524 

Mr. Nelson. It did not apply. 

Mr. Weitz. You felt you did have to indicate, through contributions, 
your willingness to support the administration in order to gain access 
toit'^ 

Mr. Nelson. Well, we had not — you see, this is — here is the thing 
we had in 1969. We had gone all out to support Hinnphrey, and you 
know, we backed the wrong party. That is what it amounted to. Part of 
that time, we had had access, but we did not know anybody over there 
to talk to. 

Mr. Weitz. So, a contribution was ultimately made to the Presi- 
dent's attorney and fundraiser, or an attorney who you assumed to be 
in that role, in order to gain access. And Mr. Nixon's next campaign 
was to be in 1 972 to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, did there come a time later in 1969, when the mat- 
ter of either reporting the contribution or otherwise reimbursing 
TAPE arose? 

Mr. Nelson. You are talking about this particular transaction ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes ; tlie $100,000. 

Mr. Nelson. I really do not know the details of this, but I believe 
the money was put back into TAPE out of corporate funds. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, let us step back a minute. Who brought this matter 
to your attention ? 

Mr. Nelson. It would have to be Mr, Isham. 

Mr. Weitz. He was responsible for the reporting requirements and 
the disbursement of money in TAPE ( 

Mr. Nelson. Either Mr. Isham or Mr. Lilly; I do not recall a spe- 
cific instance. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you confer with Mr. Pierson about this? 

Mr. Nelson. I have no independent recollection of that meeting. I 
have been told that Mr. Pierson came to San Antonio, that I picked 
him up at the airport, and met with Mr. Isham. And that he then re- 
turned, I believe, that same evening, I am not sure, to Washington. 

Mr. Weitz. Who told you of this 'f 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Sale"? 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Sale, of the Special Prosecutor's office ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Is that inconsistent with your recollection ? 

Mr, Nelson. No, no. It is not inconsistent. I just do not recall meet- 
ing in San Antonio. I knew that Mr. Isham was going to discuss this 
in tlie whole broad spectrum. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you not ask Mr. Pierson to come out to San An- 
tonio in order to discuss the matter of future plans for TAPE and 
the reporting requirements? 

Mr. Nelson. As I say, I remember that part. l)ut I do not remember 
the meeting taking place in San Antonio. 

Mr. Weitz. When you asked him to come to San Antonio, was not 
your princii)al problem that of reporting or not reporting or somehow 
accounting for this $100,000? 



6525 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, I am sure that was probably the biggest problem 
we had, but there were others, too. 

Mr. Weitz. That was the biggest problem ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Insofar as I laiow. 

Mr. Weitz. Xow, at the meeting with Mr. Isham and Mr. Pierson 
that you attended, do you recall what was discussed ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo ; that is what I say ; I do not remember that meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Have you ever seen this document, Lilly exhibit 2*, not 
necessarily all of the markings on it, but at least some of the markings ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes ; I have seen it. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember whether that document was drawn in 
your presence or shown to you at sometime in connection with the 
meeting with ]Mr. Pierson ? 

Mr. Xelsox. It was shown to me by Mr. Sale. 

Mr. Weitz. You did not see it until that time ? 

Mr. X^ELSOX'. I do not recall having seen it. 

Mr. Weitz. That was what ? In the last month or two ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And looking at that document does not refresh your rec- 
ollection as to anything you might have discussed with Mr. Pierson, 
]Mr. Isham, or ]Mr. Lilly, or any of the other gentlemen on that list, 
listed on the exhibit in connection with the reimbursement of moneys 
to TAPE ? 

]\Ir. Xelsox. X"o; I knew that — you see, I do not remember that 
specific meeting, that is what I am telling you. 

Mr. Weitz. But in general, with respect to matters relating to reim- 
bursement, do you remember discussions what might have taken place 
over a period of several days, for example, or a month with respect to 
reimbursing TAPE for the $100,000 withdrawal? 

Mr. X'elsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. All right. Can you take it one at a time? Do you remem- 
ber what you talked about with Mr. Pierson? 

Mr. X'elsox'. You see, I do not remember explicitly talking with 
]Mr. Pierson about this. ]My conversation would be mostly with Mr. 
Lilly. 

Mr. Weitz. All right. 

Do you remember what you discussed with Mr. Lilly ? 

]Mr. Xelsox. With ]Mr. Lilly, about getting contributions from peo- 
ple who were associated with us, in order to reimburse TAPE for the 
money tliat had been taken out of there. 

Mr. Weitz. Xow, the persons listed on Lilly exhibit 2 — "DeVier 
Pierson, Joe Long, F. Master, S. Russell, Jim Jones, Dick McGuire, 
Cliff Carter, Ted van Dyk, Gary Evat," with a question mark — and 
then under that, "expense advances, Lilly, Parr, Anderson, Suttle"; 
do you recall anything with respect to conversations you had either 
with Mr. Lilly, Mr. Pierson, Mr. Isham with respect to any of these 
individuals that I have named ? 

^Ir. X'elsox, Well, the one that I specifically recall is with Mr. Pier- 
son— I mean with Mr. van Dyk, because Mr. van Dyk — Lilly told me 

♦See Book 14, p. 5991. 



6526 

that he had talked to Mr. van Dyk, and had obtained a contribution 
from Mr. van Dyk for it. ]\Ir. van Dyk had billed Associated Milk 
Producers for the money, but he had then sent Mr. Lilly a withholding 
form on the money, which created a tax problem for ]\Ir. Lilly. 

Mr. Weitz. We are getting ahead of ourselves. Let us stick to the 
preparation of this-^the planning for the recoupment or the reim- 
bursement to TAPE. 

Do you recall any conversations with Mr. Pierson, Mr. Isham or 
]\Ir. Lilly with respect to setting up the mechanism or obtaining the 
moneys to reimburse TAPE for the withdraw^al? 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not recall any specific conversation. 

Mr. Weitz. What do you recall with respect to this? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I recall that that was the system that was used. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, was it contemplated or discussed that AMPI could 
be billed and would pay the attorneys not only for out-of-pocket dis- 
bursement of Mr. Lilly, but also for excess taxes incurred? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 

]\Ir. Weitz. And your understanding was that the money was to be 
repaid to Mr. Lilly, and INIr. Lilly was to borrow the money and repay 
TAPE, the $100,000, and then be repaid by these various attorneys 
and consultants ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. that is right; and that TAPE— that AINIPI 
would — that they would be billed for a sufficient amount to take care 
of the taxes. 

Mr. W^EiTz. Out-of-pocket expense plus taxes, out-of-pocket costs 
by j)aying INIr. Lilly plus their excess taxes b}^ reporting that as 
income ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

INIr. Weitz. Now, all of the people that I have mentioned on this list, 
on Lilly exhibit 2, were then either attorneys, consultants or in the 
employ of AMPI ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, let me look. I think that is right. 

Ml'. Weitz. Why do you not go one-by-one, and just tell us what 
their position was ? 

Mr. Nelson. DeYier Pierson Avas an attorney. Joe Long was an 
attorney, Frank ^Masters was an attorney. And Stuart Kussell was an 
attorney, and Jim Jones is an attorney, but he was employed actually 
to — he is also a journalist, and he actually put out the house organ. 

Mr. Weitz. The Daii-yman's Digest? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sii'. He actually did that, and Dick ^NLiguire is an 
attorney, and Clitl' Carter, I have already said what he 

Ml-. Weitz. Right. 

These were all people who were retained or who were in the employ 
of AMPI ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right; Lilly, Parr, Anderson, Suttle were all 
employees. 

Mi-.'Weitz. What about Gary Evat? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, the other day I did not recall about him or know, 
but Mr. Sale told me that he was a lawyer that worked in Mr. Jacob- 
sen's office in Austin. 



6527 

Mr. Weitz. How lono^ ago? When did you iivst learn of that? 

Mr. Nelson. When I talked to Mr. 

]Mr. Weitz. When do voii recall first of learning of it ? 

Mr. Xelsox. When I talked to Mr. Sale. I say I did not recall who 
Gary Evat is. 

^Ir. Weitz. Xow, there is a question mark listed next to his name. 

Mr. Xelsox. There are two question marks there. 

Mr. Weitz. Two question marks. 

Do you know the reasons those question marks are placed there? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. Xow. at the top of the document, it indicates shorthand 
for check or cash to Bob Lilly. Do you know whether there was — 
whether he indicated an}' of those gentlemen listed how he should 
receive payment from them ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo. Mr. Lilly would be the one who would have to tell 
vou, which of them he got payments from, and how much, because 
they all did, all of them did business with Associated Milk Producers. 

Mr. Weitz. Xow, the list, Lilly exhibit 2, indicates two separate col- 
unnis of figures: one under 1969, totaling $80,000; and then $5,000 for 
each of the employees for a total of $100,000; and then a separate list 
for 1970, a separate column of figures totaling $80,000. 

Xow, was it contemplated that moneys would be paid to them in two 
installments totaling $100,000 in 1969' and $80,000 in 1970 ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Well, you would have to ask Mr. Isham about how he 
divided. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Isham — first of all, do you recognize the hand- 
writing on the document? There appear to be two different handwrit- 
ings: first of all, the column of names and figures. 

Mr. Xelsox'. Xo. I tell you, you see, it has been so long since I have 
actually been associated with him; I would assume that this is Mr. 
Isham, but I would not want to say it is. 

Mr. Weitz. To your knowledge, ]Mr. Isham or Mr. Lilly, if they 
prepared such a document or at least followed through on the plans 
for reimbursement pursuant to your direction ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. So, therefore, whatever is listed here, whatever — what 
in fact was done to pursue this plan was as a result of your meetings, 
or your authorization to reimburse TAPE ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Absolutely. 

Mr. Weitz. Xow, did you tell Mr. Lilly to borrow the money in 
order to reimburse TAPE before the end of the year? 

Mr. Xelsox'. I do not recall having told him that, but I am sure if 
he did it, like I say. he did it because it was pursuant to his knowing 
that it was something I would approve of. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk to Mr. Jacobsen about the arrangement of 
the loan to Mr. Lilly ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I am sure that Mr. Isham or I, one, would have talked 
to Mr. Jacobsen about it. 

Mr. Weitz. How much was Mr. Lilly making at that time ? What 
was his salary ? 



6528 

Mr. Nelsox. I cannot tell you. I can tell yon approximately. 

Mr. Weitz. Approximately? 

Mr. Nelson. I would say $30,000 or $35,000, but the money was 
borrowed, as I understand it, against a certificate of deposit that 
TAPE had there. 

Mr. Weitz. To secure the loan ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. If this plan was put in oifect and completed as contem- 
plated at the outset, it would entail AMPI effectively covering for the 
initial $100,000 contribution to ]\Ir. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Weitz. Plus, perhaps as an additional, as this column indicates, 
excess money perliaps in the amount of $80,000 for excess taxes to the 
individuals 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Weitz [continuing]. Serving as conduits for the money to Mr. 
Lilly? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Weitz. I would like to go through each of these individuals and 
see if you recall what contact you had or witness their involvement and 
discussions with them. First of all, DeViei- Pierson, did you discuss 
this matter, either of the oi'ganizatiton of the ]dan or his actual partic- 
ipation in the plan with him ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not lecall that I did, but I eviclentally did, because, 
you know, I was in the meeting. T do not recall. You see, I cannot tell 
you about any of these people, whethei- any of these specifically gave 
money or did not give money, or how nnich they gave. 

Mr. Weitz. You do not recall anything with respect to that? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall anything with respect to amounts. I 
assume that some of them did and some of them did not. 

I know tliat Stuart Russell billed for — Mr. Lilly got monej' from 
Stuart Russell, and that Stuaif Russell billed and was paid, but I can- 
not tell you the amounts and so on. I know about Ted van Dyk, be- 
cause Lilly brought it specifically to my attention when he mailed him 
a withholding form, or a reporting form. 

Ml-. Weitz. You mentioned this before. Let us talk about Van Dyk. 

Did you talk to him before the payment was made ? 

Mr. Nelson. T do not recall that I did. 

Mr. Weitz. And what was your understanding of the transaction 
involving Mi-, van Dyk and Mr. Lilly ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, my understanding was that Mr. van Dyk — that 
Mr. Lilly got some money from JNIr. van Dyk, and that Mr. van Dyk 
billed AMPI, and was reimbursed for the money that he had given to 
Mr. Lilly. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you approve any of the billings that came in. either 
from Mr. van Dyk or from anyone else ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. AYeitz. So whether or not you recall it now, at the time you 
would have been aware of excess billings from these various 
individuals ? 



6529 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And you knew that it was pursuant to the plan that had 
been worked out, at least in oeneral terms with Mr. Pierson, Mr. Isham, 
and Mr. Lilly? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. that is riaht. 

Mv. Weitz. Do you remember speaking to Frank Masters about any 
of his involvement in this plan? 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not remember. I believe — -I do not believe that I 
did. I think that would have been done by Mr. Lilly. 

]Mr. Weitz. You had known Mr. Masters for a number of years, had 
you not ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And you do not recall him ever contacting you to ask 
specifically about this transaction or his involvement in the trans- 
action ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No, but if he had called mo I would have told him to do 
what Mr. Lilly asked him to do. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever tell any of these individuals, including) Mr. 
van Dyk or Mr. Russell or Mr. ^Masters, or anyone alse, the purpose 
for which — the pur})ose for giving the money to JNIr. Lilly ? 

]\[r. Nelsox. I do not recall their explicitly asking me. I assume that 
they knew, l)ecause I did state at board meetings on more than one 
occasion, tliat attoi-ney's fees were high l)ecause they rofiected the fact 
that some of these attorneys made political contributions, and that 
they had to be reimbursed on their taxes for them. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall which board meetings these were? 

Mr, Nelsox. One was in Las Vegas, Nev., and one was in Madison, 
Wis. 

Mr. Weitz. How do you recall those two meetings ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Because it was kind of a donneybrook, and I will be 
honest with you, I had forgotten that until this whole Watergate thing 
started to exjilodc, and you know, we got involved. And then I was 
reminded that I had on those two occasions made an issue of it. 

Mr, Weitz. When you told the board members of this, was there 
any further discussion or questions that ensued ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No, not that I recall. 

Mr. AVeitz. Do vou recall wdiether any of the attorneys or other 
gentlemen on this list were present at those board meetings when you 
gave such an exjilanation ? 

!Mr. Nelsox. The two attorneys who would ordinarily be there, and 
I assume they were at these two meetings, were Mr. Russell and Mr. 
Masters. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Parr at the meetings ? 

Mr, Nelsox. Ordinarily, ves; I cannot tell you — I am sure that he 
was at these two, l>iit he mav not have been at either one of them. My 
recollection is tliat he was. lie was ordinarily at every board meeting. 
He did miss a few. 

Mr. Weitz. Did either Mr. Russell or Mr. Masters, after that meet- 
ing or any other time, ask vou what von meant by tliat, or further 
innuire as to the purposes for which their money to Mr. Lilly was 
being put? 



6530 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did there ever coine a time when Mr. Russell asked you 
about tlie purpose for the contributions, or what Lilly was doing with 
the money ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Eussell asked me — called me on the phone one 
time, and asked me — said that he had a request from Lilly for money, 
and what should he do about it, is my recollection. And I told him 
to check with Mr. Isham, and to do whate\^er jNIr. Isham told him to 
do. 

Mr. Weitz. Why was he to check with Mr. Isham if the request came 
from Mr. Lilly ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mv. Isham Avas a comptroller. 

Mr. Weitz. Did it not really relate to whether or not he would be 
compensated for it, for the payment 'i 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Isham was a comptroller, and if 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Isham would not have been able to tell him, if I 
understand Mr. Isham's role, about the validity of the request or 
whether or not it was going to a particular candidate, or for what pur- 
pose it was going; but rather, whether or not he would be compensated 
for his billings to reflect that payment. 

Is that correct ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, Mr. Isham— Mr. Isham and Mr. Lilly, I think, 
enjoyed each other's confidence, I may be wrong about that. But I do 
not think that there was any question about that. 

And my thought was, if he is calling to question whether ISIr. Lilly 
should be given the money, Mr. Isham is a comptroller, if he tells — if 
Mr. Isham tells him to, he has got no question about getting his pay- 
ment. 

Mr. Weitz. That is what he was concerned about ? 

Mr. Nelson. I am sure he was, yes. He did not express it at the 
time, but I am sure that is what — he wanted to make sure he could get 
his money. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ask for your authorization ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, in effect, he was when he was asking me what to 
do. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you not, in fact, tell him to call Isham and tell him 
it was OK with you '^. 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I said, "Any time you get a request for funds 
from Lilly, if you lia\e any question about it" — this is the effect of 
what I am telling him — "you do not need to check with me ; check with 
Isham."" 

Mr. Weitz. And tell Isham you are going to do it; is that right? 

Mr. Nelson. Right, or ask him ; ask him what he knows about it. 

Ml". Weitz. Did Ishaui ever ask you about any of these contribu- 
tions, or any of these transactions ? 

Mr. Nelson. I am sure lie did. I do not recall any ex]ilicit deal. He 
would not ([uestion Lilly, because he knew that — he did froui time to 
time ask me about, or I would tell hiui. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether any of the four employees — Lilly, 
Parr, Anderson or Suttle — participated in this plan ? 



6531 



Mr. Nelson. I know that- 



Mr. Weitz. To the extent of inakino; payments to INIr. Lilly? 
Mv. Nelson. Well, now, 1 do not know about their niakin<r payments 
to Mr. Lilly. You will have to ask ^Mr. Lilly about that. I do not know 
whether tliey made payments to Mr. I^illy or not. I know that some 
employee bonuses were paid, but I do not know whether the money 
went to Lilly, or whether it went to Ishaui, who in turn gave it to 
Lilly, or whether it went for some other political contribution. 

Mr. WErrz. Do you remember what year this was, or political can- 
didates these were i 

Mr. Nelson. I think these were for Hubert Humphrey. 
Mr. Weitz. And for the 1968 campaign ? 
Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

:Mr. Weitz. So that had nothing to do with — that was not in 1969, 
forward to your recollection ? 

]Mr. Nelson. That is my recollection. Now, there may have been 
some, but you would have to ask Mr. Isham about that, because I do 
not recall that. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Parr aware of this plan or this procedure 
whereby attorneys would receive— would pay moneys to Mr. Lilly 
for various purposes, and be reimbursed by AMPI ? 
Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. AVeitz. Did you discuss this with him '? 
Mr. Nelson. You mean this specific '( 

Mr. Weitz. No, either this original transaction or any subsequent 
transactions of a similar nature? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, yes. He kncAv about it. I do not know that he knew 
about that specific list or anything like that, but he knew that it was 
done. 

Mr. Weitz. And he knew the moneys were for various jDolitical 
contributions. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Dorsen. Excuse me. Who was that you were talking about? 
]\Ir. Nelson. Parr, P-a-r-r. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, you say you mentioned at several board meet- 
ings — you gave the explanation with respect to the high legal fees. 
Do you recall if Mr. Butterbrodt was at that meeting, those meetings? 
]\ir. Nelson. Yes, sir. He was. 

]Mr. Weitz. And he was president of the board of directors at that 
time ? 

Mr. Nelson. Right. 

Mr. Weitz. What about Mr. Griffith, Preach Griffith, W. R. Griffith, 
who was chairman of the TAPE committee and a board member? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I would not be positive that Mr. Griffith was there 
because — I think he was, you understand, but he — you would have to 
look at the minutes to determine that because he did not attend every 
board meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Were there an}- other occasions in Avhich you either 
know of or had direct conversations with Mr. Griffith about the orig- 
inal transaction or similar transactions? 



6532 

Mr. Nelson. No, I did not have any explicit conversations with 
him. Mr. Lill}^ would be the one who would have that. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know wliether he knew of these types of 
transactions ? 

Mr. Nelson. I assume that he did. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you base that on any facts or understandings of 
any transactions in which he either participated directly, or had 
knowledge of them? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I would not have personal knowledge of those. 
Mr. Lilly would be the one who would know. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you not, with respect to a contribution in the 1970 
campaign, know of the participation of Mr. Griffith witli respect 
to a cash contribution? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, but, you see, I did not handle that directly with 
Mr. Griffith. As I say, Mr. Lilly would be the one. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. 

Do you knoAv whether Mr. Griffith was aware of such a contribution 
through the same type of transaction? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, it is my understanding that he certainly did. 
I am saying that I did not handle it. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. 

Now, with regard to Mr. Jones, were you aware, based on any- 
thing that you know of, that he knew of the tyj^e of transaction that 
was involved, these types of transaction? 

Mr. Nelson. No. You would have to talk to Bob Lilly about that, 
because I did not deal with Jim Jones directly on that either. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mv. Jones ever talk with you about this contri- 
bution in the 1970 campaign that involved — that was effected through 
such a transaction? 

Mr. Nelson. What contribution are you talking about? 

Mr. Weitz. Well, it is a particular contribution to a congressional 
candidate from a IVfidwest State in 1970, that involved a cash contri- 
bution, the funds for which were generated through this type of 
ti'ansaction. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, I believe — now, T could be wrong about this, 
but it seems to me he talked to me about the fact that he knew that 
Mr. Griffith had been involved in this sort of a contribution. 

Mr. Weitz. That involved corporate funds that had been funneled 
through attornevs or consultants? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I do not recall the si^ecifics, l)ut he was aware 

Mr. Weitz. But that was the transaction? 

Mr. Nklson. That was the trau'iaction. 

Mr. Weitz. You were aware of the tiansaction. were you not? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, but as I say, I did not deal with Mr. Griffith 
myself on that transactioii. 

Mr. Weitz. But Mr. Jones indicated to you that he knew of the 
transaction? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall. I believe he called me ou the phone and 
made some reference to that. 

Mr. Gallman. Ts that a Couiiiessuian froui Oklahoma? 



6538 

Mr. XELSOx.Yes. I do not recall that he knew that they had made a 
contribution to this other man. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Xow, did there come a time in 1970 when you met with 
Mr. Colson and Mr. Gleason and others with respect to contributions, 
cash contributions, or TAPE contributions to the 1970 campaign? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. M3' recollection is that the — I believe we just met 
with Mr. Gleason once or twice. It might have been another time, but 
then we met with Mr. Colson. 

Mr. Weitz. In 1970 ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there any discussion — Avas Mr. Gleason also pres- 
ent? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xow, I can be wrong about this, but I do not believe 
Mr. Gleason was ever present when we met with ]\Ir. Colson. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Kalmbach ever present when you met with 
Mr. Gleason? 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not believe so. 

Mr. Weitz. Xow, your meetings with Mr. Gleason just related to 
the 1970 campaign or did it relate to the Presidential — any contribu- 
tions to the President or the Presidential campaign ? 

Mr. Xelsox". I cannot really recall, but it seems to me that we met 
with Mr. Gleason either shortly after or shortly before Mr. Dent, and 
that we only met with Mv. Gleason once or twice. 

And then as I recall, we never met with Mr. Gleason any more. 

Mr. Weitz. Xow, what was the substance of the meeting with Mr. 
Gleason ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, we were talking about what we — whatever prob- 
lems were pressing at the moment, and there may have been some dis- 
cussion about, you know, our desire and ability to make contributions. 
But I do not recall ever getting down to anything. 

It just seemed to me that Mr. Gleason was more or less pushed aside 
as far as we were concerned, or he just sort of faded away. 

Mr. Weitz. Xow, I am still trying to pin it down, whether this meet- 
ing had anything to do with Presidential contributions, or was it solely 
1970 campaign contributions? 

Mr. Xelsox. With Gleason? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Xelsox'. I believe it was just 1970. 

Mr. Weitz. Xow, in that connection, I would like to show you a let- 
ter, dated November 2, 1970, from Mr. Harrison to you ; it is exhibit 
1 to ]\fr. Harrison's testimony.* 

Do you remember that letter? Have you ever seen a copy of that 
letter f 

Mr. Gallman. This is long-winded. What is the point of it? Can 
you say ? 

Mr. Weitz. Well, first I am asking Mr. Xelson if he recalls the letter. 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo, I really do not. I would like to read it since you 
are asking me about it. 



♦See Book 14, p. 6282. 



6534 

Let lis say I do not recall it a fter liavino- read up throuc;!! parao-raph 
3. 1 am now at 4. [Pause.] I do not recall havinii" <2:otten that letter. 

Mv. Wktiz. Now. with respect to pao-e 2, i)araoiaj)h 4 of the letter, 
at the bottom of the pafje, there is a sentence which says — it was talk- 
ing in advance of this about contributions and political campaigns and 
some embarrassment that may accrue from making contributions to 
opposing candidates. 

ConseqiK'iitly, it would be my strong rceoinmendatioii Hint TAPE and/oi' otlior 
like organizations contribute only to candidates who are opposed, and let sources 
which can contribute in cash and without the risk of pul)licity do the contribut- 
ing to those candidates who are unopposed. 

My question is, do you know what source Mr. TTai-rison was referring 
to? ' 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever discuss with Mr. TTan-ison the ])ossibility 
or the actunlitv of cash contributions by TAPE or auA' one on behalf 
ofTAPEorAMPI? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall that w^e did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss Avith him this letter or any matters 
contained in the letter? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, yes. I did not discuss the letter Avith him. but I 
I'ecall at the time tliat he Avas u]iset because he did not knoAv that Ave 
Avere suppoiting an o})ponent of l\age Belcher. 

Mi: WErrz. I^ut you never discussed Avitli him the impossible avail- 
ability of cash for political contributions? 

INfr. Nei,son. I do not believe Ave did Avith him. 

Mr. "\Yeitz. Do you have any idea Avhat lead hiui to make that re- 
mark in that letter? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, the Avay T interpreted the letter Avas that he Avas 
talking about just people other than us. 

Mr. Weitz. Put avIia' in cash? You could make a contribution by 
check, T take it? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And if you were not reimbursed by AMPI. that Avould 
be — you Avould not have to report the contribution, as a personal 
contribution. 

Why Avould you liave to make it in cash then ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not knoAv. 

Mr. Weitz. You have no idea Avhat he Avas referring to? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; T really do not. 

Mr. Weeiz. And to your knoAvledge, you never discussed Avith him 
any of the transactions involving AMPI's attoi-neys or Bob Lilly, 
that involved cash or other unreported contributions? 

Mr. Nelson. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Weeiz. And you never discussed Avitli him the possible use of 
corporate funds for certain political contributions? 

Ml-. Nelson. No; I believe all of the disc\issious aa'c had Avith liim, 
I think. Avere concerning TAPE funds. 

Ml'. WEFrz. Did you ever discuss Avith him the possibility of TAPE 
making unreported cash contril)utions? 



6535 

Mv. Nelsox. T do not believe so. 

Mr. Weitz. Are you aware of any cash that was delivered to James 
(rleason by anyone— or Jack Gleason— on behalf of AMPI in 1970? 

]\rr. Nelson. No, I have been asked that before, and I do not recall 
any delivery of cash to Gleason. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall any request or anythin<r about, or dis- 
cussion about such a transaction, whether or not you recall the actual 
transaction? 
Air. Xelsox. Xo; I do not. As I say, I was asked that recently. 

Mr. Weitz. In 1970, did you coordinate the contributions beinjv 
made bv TAP?] witli the conti-ibutions bein<>- made by the other two 
co-ops, by ADP]PT and by SPACP], by their political trusts? 

Mr. Xelsox. Did I personally do it, you mean ? 

Mr. "Weitz. Were you aware of coordination, or did you ever see 
such coordination? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo: I would not sav that I ever saw it, but I was aware 
of it. 

Mr. Weitz. Who actually carried out the coordination? 

]Mr. Xelsox. It would be more Mr. Parr who did more of that. I 
l)articipated in it, and had discussions, but I did not really — I do 
not know what you really mean by "coordination." 

Mr. Weitz. Well, actually taikinp;- to other people and bein^: told 
what they were oivinii:, and tellino; them what you were giving. 

INIr. Xelsox. Well, I think there was full and open disclosure among 
the three about who was giving what, and we discussed about how 
mucli can you give, and what you will give, and who it should be 
given to. 

Mr. Weitz. Xow, with the formation of Avery Associates and then 
ADEPT in 1970, a $8,500 loan was made fi-om TAPE to ADEPT. 
Do you remember that transaction ? 

Mv. Xelsox. I have been asked about that. 

Mr. Weitz. And you recall the transaction ? 

]\rr. Xelsox. I was thinking that there was two or more loans, 
but 

Mr. Weitz. I am asking, in 1970 ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I believe — I may be wrong about that. I recall that we 
did make a loan from TAPE to — that was to Mid-America Dairy- 
men's ))olitical arm. 

Mr. Weitz. Yes; do you Icnow the reason for that loan? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, tliey wanted to make a conti-ibution, and I guess 
they did not have the money for it at the time. 

Xlr. Weitz. Was this a contribution that eitlier you or they had 
pi'omised to ]Mr. Colson or Mr. (rleason would be made shortly? 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not recall what the contribution was. If you can 
tell me what it was, I can tell you. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you meet with ]\Ir. Kalmbach in 1970 with respect 
to the 1970 political contributions — with res])ect to the 1970 campaign? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, we met with Mr. Kalmbach in an effort to get 
them to give us tlie names of connnittees to which we could make these 
contributions. 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 11 



6536 

Mr. Weitz. "Who else did you meet witli at tliat meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, tliere was a Tom Evans, and Marion Harrison. 

Mr. Weitz. Was ]Mr. Parr there? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe Mr. Parr was there, and Mr. Colson was there 
for just — I am not sure about Mr. Parr being at that. particular meet- 
ing. I believe he was, but Mr. Colson was there for just a short time. 

As I recall that meeting, Mr. Harrison and I had been over to the 
Secretary's office. I do not remember whether we saw him. 

Mr. Weitz. What Secretary ? 

Mr. Nelson. Of Agriculture. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Hardin ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes ; and I do not know whether we saw Mr. Hardin 
or somebody else there that day. We might have seen the Under Secre- 
tary or the Assistant Secretary. Any way, this meeting was in the 
Madison Hotel. 

And when we got back, Mr. Colson was in the meeting, but he could 
not wait, and he had his hat on and was about to leave. 

Mr. Weitz. What was the pur-pose of the meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. To obtain the name of connnittees to which we could 
make contributions. 

Mr. Weitz. To the President ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Hillings also there ? 

Mr. Nelson. He may have been in that meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Pat Hillings was an attorney of counsel to the firm of 
Reeves and Harrison at that time ? 

Mr. Nelson. Right. 

Mr. Weitz. You knew INIr. Hillings ? 

Mr. Nelson. I knew him about the same time, or after I met INIr. 
Harrison. 

Mr. Weitz. So the purpose of the meeting was to discuss the oi'gani- 
zation of committees to receive contributions for the President's 
reelection? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. How many committees were contemplated, or requested, 
or discussed? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, -vve indicated to them that if they would give 
names of legitimate committees, that we would make the contributions. 

Mr. Weitz. How many committees ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well - 

Mr. Weitz. Ten, a hundred, several hundred ? 

Mr. Nelson. It would be more like several hundred committees. 

Mr. Weitz. Several hundred committees? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. What total amount did you contemplate contributing, 
or did you tell them you would contribute? 

Mr. Nelson. Well,' we did not tell them any si)ecific amount; at 
various times, $1 million, $2 million, or even more monev was discussed. 
And had they given us the names of the committees, they could have 
gotten much more money from us. 



6537 

Mr. "Wettz. "When you say $1 million, $2 million or more was dis- 
cussed at various times, who discussed it ? Did you discuss it Avith some 
individuals, or did you 

Mr. Nelsox. These would just be amounts that would be thrown 
out about the ■ 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. Did you hear those amounts discussed, or did 
you, yourself, discuss those amounts? 

jSIr. Nelsox. Ordinarily, I would not be the one to mention those 
amounts. 

Mv. Weitz. "Who did ? 

Mr. Xelson. ]Mr. Parr. 

]\Ir. "Weitz. In your presence ? 

^Ir. Xelsox. He has mentioned those amounts in my })resence ; yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Who else was present at any of the times that Mr. Parr 
mentioned those amounts ? 

Mv. Xelsox. ]Mr. Colson. 

]Mr. Weitz. Mr. Colson. Was it at this meetino^ in 1970, for example? 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not recall it beino- at that meeting;. Everybody 
knew that they had demonstrated their — to me, it is an unfathomable 
thing — inability to come with a list of committees. 

]Mr. Weitz. Well, how early — was this the first meeting's when you 
raised the first possibility of committees being organized, or had you 
asked for these committees earlier? 

Mr. Nelsox. We had asked for these committees earlier. 

]Mr. Weitz. How much earlier ? 

]Mr. Nelsox. I cannot tell you when it would be. 

Mr. Weitz. 1969? 

Mr, Nelsox. No, I do not recall in 1969, but among the first meet- 
ings we had with ]\Ir. Colson we asked for committees. 

^h'. Weitz. When was the first time you met Avith ]\fr. Colson? 

]Mi". Nelsox. Let us say, we may have met with him in 1969, but if 
not, it was certainly early 1970. 

Mr. Weitz. And at one of the first or early meetings, you mentioned 
that you wanted to make conti'ibutions and wanted the names of 
committees? 

]Mr. Nelsox. Yes, sir. We sure did. 

:Nrr. Weitz. Did you mention the contribution in 1969, the $100,000? 

Mr. Nelsox. No, that was never mentioned. 

Mr. Weitz. Why in that case did you ask for — in 1970 — did you ask 
for committees when you did not insist on committees in 1969 from 
Mr. Kalmbach ? 

]Mr. Nelsox. Well, it was an entirely — we did not have anybody 
to talk to. 

yiv. Weitz. Well, you have Mr. Kalmbach. 

]Mr. Nelsox. No, we did not have him. We had not talked to him at 
all. 

^Ir. Weitz. Well. ^Slr. Semer talked to him on your behalf ? 

^Ir. Nelsox. Yes. ]Mr. Semer said he wanted $100,000. 

]\ri". Weitz. Why did Mr. Semer ask for committees from Mv. 
Kalmbach? 



6538 

Mr. Nelson". I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. He was acting on 3'our behalf, was lie not ? 

INIr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever ask Mi'. Senier to ask for committees? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. But the first time yon met with Mr. Colson, or the first 
time to discuss contributions, you asked for committees? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Seiner present ? 

INIi'. Nelson. I do not believe ]Mr. Seiner was. 

Mr. AVeitz. Was Mi-. Harrison present? 

INIr. Nelson. I think jNIr. Harrison was. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he arrange the meetino-? 

Mr. Nelson. It is my understandino; on my recollection that Mr. 
Plarrison arranged the meetings that we had with Mr. Colson. 

Mr. Weitz. And what was the purpose of these meetings with Mr. 
Colson? 

INfr. Nelson. Well, the pui-poses of the meetings was to press our 
position on such things as price support, imports, that sort of thing. 

Mr. Weitz. What relation did that have to contributions? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I do not know. I can tell you how it appeared to 
us. Mr. Colson was represented to us as being the man Avho was more 
or less in charge, insofar as the White House was concerned, with 
contact with trade associations. And they viewed us as somewhat in 
that category, apparently. 

And we wanted to educate Mr. Colson on our position concerning 
these matters, so that we would have a friend in court, «o to speak. 

]Mr. Weitz. And in what connection was the matter of contributions 
discussed ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, the matter of contributions was discussed on the 
basis that we wanted to support the President, that we knew we had 
not in the past, that we wanted to, we had the ability to; and if they 
would come up with the names of committees, we would go forward 
and do it. 

Mr. Weitz. Why did you tell Mv. Colson this ? 

Mr. Nelson. It was our understanding that he also had something to 
do with fundraising. 

Mr. Weitz. He was certainly aware, was he not, of your intention 
to contribute, and in fact of your contributions? Is that your undei-- 
standing? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir ; no question ab(nit that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he raise the mattei- of contributions with you? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, he discussed the matter of contr-ibutions with 
us. I will say this, I think in order to be fair we would have to say 
that they did not come seeking us, we sought them, because it appeared 
that we were not going to get any place if we did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Was this a continuation of your efforts from lOCiO to 
gain an audience and to retain access to administration officials? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you view your contributions to the President, or 
your intended contribution to" the President, as part of that effoit? 



6539 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. sir. 

Mr. AVeitz. Xow. what did Mr. (^olson say to you in tlicso earlier 
ineetinos in lOTO, Avheu you asked him for names of committees? Did 
he tell you who to contact, or did he provide committee names to you? 

]SIr. Nfxsox. No. It was left that he would see what he could do. He 
did not say who or what or when or where. It was just left that he 
would see what he could do, and more or less in the posture of. you 
will hear from me. 

^Tr. WErrz. Did you also tiy to work throu<ih Mr. Colson to obtain 
thi^ President's appearance at youi' annual convention in 1070? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes, sir. 

^fr. "Weitz. Did the President attend ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo. 

Mr. "Weitz. Secretaiy Hardin attended, did he not? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes. 

Mr. "Weitz. And the President called you, called tlie convention 
wliile it was in procuress ? 

!Mr. Xelsox. He called me and talked to me just as we were about to 
convene the meeting-. 

^Ir. "Weitz. "Was it your liope tliat by makino; conti'i])utions as eai'ly 
as 1970, you would be able to obtain the President's appearance at your 
liist annual convention? 

]\rr. Xelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. "Weitz. Did 3'ou conyey that to ]Mr. Colson ? 

]Mr. Xelsox. "Well, we conyeyed it to ]Mr. Colson more in the aspect 
that it was, of course, it was somethino- that we desired, but that it was 
a hio-hly desirable thino-, politically for the President, to appear before 
tliis lartre "'roup of farmers; and that it would be politically advan- 
tao-eous for the President to do it. 

Mr. "\A^EiTz. And did you feel that your announcement or intention to 
make lai-fje contributions would assist 3'ou in obtaininfj his presence or 
his cooperation and his fayor? 

]Mr. Xelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. "Who arranged for the meeting- in — when was the meet- 
ing that we were discussing with Mr. Kalmbach, Mr. Evans, ]Mr. Col- 
son and so forth in 1970 ? Do you recall ? 

]Mr. Xelsox". No. 

Mr. "Weitz. "Was it after the Xovember election, sometime in Xoyein- 
ber of 1970 ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not really i-ecall. It just seems to me it was before, 
but it may haye been after. 

]Mr. "Weitz. Sometime in 1970 ? 

]Mr. Xelsox. Yes. 

Mr. "Weitz. Did Mr. Parr at tliat meeting mention $1 — $2 million 
or more amounts? 

Mr. Xelsox. As I say, I am not real sure Mr. Parr was in that meet- 
ing; and if he did, I do not recall it coming up there. Tliis was more 
a discussion of lawyers about how are we going to get these committees 
named, and saying, you haye not furnished us with these committees. 

]Mr. "Weitz. And what was resolved at the meeting? 



6540 

Mr. Nelson. Notliing; the end result was — it was resolved they were 
goiiif^ to give us the names of the committees. 

INIr. Wi-:iTz. What did ]\Ir. Colson say at the mectiiii>;? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Colson was about to leave, he had his hat on and 
was putting his coat on when we got back over there. 

Mr. Weitz. Where did the meeting take place ? 

Mr. Nelson. In the INIadison Hotel. 

]\Ir. Weitz. In someone's suite ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Whose suite ? 

Mr. Nelson. I am not sure, but I believe it was mine. 

Mr. Weitz. But you arrived just as Mr. Colson was leaving? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. How did Mv. Colson get in, or arrive ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, the others were there. INIr. Harrison and T had 
been over at the Secretary's office. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Hillings was waiting for you with Mr. Kalmbach, 
Mr. Evans, and Mr. Colson ? 

Mr. Nelson. I am sure Mr. Evans was there. I am sure Mv. Kalm- 
bach was thei'e. I am sure Mr. Colson was there for a short time. 

I am not real sure that INIr. Hillings was in there. He may have been. 

Mr. Weitz. What did INIr. Kalmbach say about the contributions and 
the committees ? 

Mv. Nelson. Well, he was — it seemed to me that he was in the posture 
of relying on these other people to get the names of the committees; 
that he had more or less done what he was supposed to, he performed 
his function insofar as the deal was concerned, when he brought it to 
their attention that committees needed to be named. 

Mv. Weitz. ^\niat deal ? 

Mr. Nelson. Of getting the committees. He was in the posture of 
having said that I will get the names of committees. 

INIr. Weitz. And what was Mv. Evans' role there ? 

INIr. Nelson. Mv. Evans' role was — he was in the I'olc of supposed to 
come up with committees, as I read it, 

Mr. Weitz. And you say several hundred committees is what you 
had in mind ? 

Mv. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you communicate that to them ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know how much Avould be contributed to each 
committee ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I was thinkinir at the time, T believe, it was 
cither $2,500 or $5,000. 1 believe it was $2,500. 

INIr. Weitz. So several hundred committees might entail at least 
several hundred thousand, or as much as $1 million ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. $5,000 a committee would entail more ? 

Mr. Nelson. Right; not necessarily, it would just entail more com- 
mittees. 

Mr. Weitz. And more contributions ? 



6541 

INIr. Nelson. Well, oitlior way ; you could have fewer numbers of the 
committees and $12,500, or more committees, and $5,000. 

Mr. DoRSEN. No, it is the other way around. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, it is the other way around. T misspoke myself. 

]Mr. "Weitz. The more money per committee, the fewer number of 
committees needed unless there was no limit set on the number of com- 
mittees or the amount of contribution? 

Mr. Nelsox. That is ri^ht. 

Mr. WErrz. Do you recall any meetino;s in 1070 between you and Mr. 
Parr and Mr. Colson ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Could you tell us about those ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, just like I have just described. 

Mr. Weitz. Those are part of the meetings you had as a series of 
meetings in 1970. 

ISIr. Nelson. This would take place in ^Ir. Colson's office. 

INIr. Weitz. And what Avas the purpose of those meetings? 

Mr. Nelson. To ])i-ess the jwsition we were seeking to luive adopted 
concerning supports, imports or whatever it would be at the moment, 
and to get the names of committees. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that discussed generally? Both items were usually 
discussed at each of these meetings ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, they were. 

Mr. Weitz. And was it at one or more of these meetings when Mr. 
Parr mentioned various goals, or amounts tliat might be contributed, 
$1 million, $2 million or more ? 

]Mr. Nelson. Right. 

^fr. Weitz. Was Mr. Caslien present at any of those meetings ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not believe. He may have been. It seems to me the 
few times I — you see, I am not sure. 

Can Ave go off the record just a minute, just to get something 
straightened out? 

Mr. Weitz. All right. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

^Ir. Nelson. I do not recall. He may have been in on one or more 
of these discussions. It seemed to me that he was sometimes there just 
as the discussions began, and I do not recall him as being a real par- 
ticipant. I may be wrong about that. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me show you, and mark as exhibit 1 to your testi- 
monv, a letter from Pat Hillings to the President, dated December 
16.1970. 

[Whereupon, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 
No. 1 for identification.*] 

Mr. Weitz. Have you ever seen the letter or a copy of the letter? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, I have seen a copy of it. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember seeing the letter or knowing of the 
letter or its contents at the time it was — approximately at that time? 

Mr. Nelson. Tlie first I ever heard of that letter, as I recall, was 
when it was published. 

*See p. 6701. 



6542 

]\fr. Weitz. Now, let me ask you about a particular paragraph. 
In general the matter — the letter relates to quotas, which were then 
under consideration at the AYhite House. The third paragraph of the 
letter reads as follows : 

AMPI has followed onr advice explicitly, and will do so in the future. AMPI 
contributed about $135,000 to Repul)lican candidates in the 1070 election. 

We are now workingr with Tom Evans and Herb Kalmbach in setting up appro- 
priate channels for AMPI to contribute .$2 million for your reelection. AMPI 
is also funding a special project. 

Was it your understanding that you did follow, or did you follow 
the instructions of Reeves and ITai'rison with respect to contributions 
fairly explicitly? 

INfr. Nelsox. Yes, we did. The instructions, actually, were in the 
form of furnishing committee names. 

Mr. Weitz. Furnishing committee names; could j'ou explain? 

Mr. Nelson. They furnished the names of the committees. 

Mr. Weitz. Oh, they furnished the names and you made the con- 
tributions? 

Mr. Nelsot^. Yes; those were the instructions. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it your recollection that AISIPI or TAPE con- 
tributed $135,000 in the'll)70 campaign? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot — I would say at least that. 

ISIr. Weitz. Did AIMPI do that or was it TAPE ? 

INIr. Nelson. TAPE. 

Mr. Weitz. Thei-e were no corporate funds involved ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not believe so. 

Mr. Weitz. Did this result from your meetings with Mr. Gleason 
and Mr. Col son? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you meet with Mr. Kalmbach in connection with 
those contributions ? 

Mr. Nelson. We met with Mr. Kalmbach initially, and then they 
would agree to furnish us committee names, when we bogged down and 
could not get tlie names of committees, then we would get^ — ^jNIr. Kalm- 
bach would come back on the scene in an effort to try to get somebody to 
give names of committees. 

Mr. Weitz. But in 1970, at this time, that was already the case? In 
other words, you had met with Mr. Kalmbach from time to time about 
obtaining committee names ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Now. the next sentence concerns setting up appropriate 
channels with Mr. Evans and Mr. Colson for the contribution of $2 
million. Was that a result of the meeting we talked about with Mr. 
Evans, Mr. Kalmbach, Mr. Colson and yourself and IMr. Harrison? 

Mr. Nelson. What is the date of that letter ? 

Mr. Weitz. The date of the lettei- is December 16, 1970. 

Mr. Nelson. I would say that is right. 

Mr. Weitz. So this meeting we are talking about took place in 1970 
before December 16. Do you recall how much in advance of the letter? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I do not. 



6543 

Mr. AVeitz. Do you recall if it was in the period when you were press- 
ino- for a reduction of import quotas? 

Mr. Nelson. Probably, because we were pressing for that over quite 
a period of time. 
Mr. Weitz. I see. 

That would not help you recollect the exact time of the meeting? 
]Mr. Xeesox. No, no. because there is too much time involved there. 
Mr. Weitz. And does this refresh your recollection, the $2 million 
was in fact discussed in the meeting with JNIr. Colson, Kalmbach, and 
Evans? 

Mr. Nelson. I am sure that — no, what I am thinking is that that is 
the date that had been discussed; you know, any amount had been 
discussed. I view that letter, really, as being an attempt on the part 
of Hillings to get something done, and this $2 million is a figure that 
appealed to him, and so he adopted it. 

I do not think the $2 million was actually discussed at that meeting. 
Mr. Weitz. But was it not consistent ? In fact, such a figure was to 
your recollection, in fact, discussed by Mr. Parr in the presence of 
Mr. Colson from time to time in 1970 ? 
]\Ir. Nelson. Or even more, or even moi^e. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know what the reference is to a special project, 
"AMPI is also funding a special project" ? 
Mr. Nelson. No, I don't. 

Mr. AVeitz. Were there any other projects, or any other contribu- 
tions made to the Republicans, or the Eepublican fundraisers in 1970, 
or later, besides the committees provided by at the instance of 
]\Ir. Kalml)ach and the Republican senatorial contributions campaigns 
in 1970 ? Do you know of any other contributions ? 
Mv. Nelson. There may have been, at the State level. 
Mr. AVeitz. But you don't ascribe that to necessarily any significance 
or relationship between the contributions, and this project ? 
INIr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did the special project have anything to do with 
iVIr. Colson ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, not that T know 

Mv. Gallman. Just a minute. Wasn't that filling up the football 
field ? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, the special project — oh, that wouldn't have any- 
thing to do with this. There was — he may have been refei-ring to the 
fact that we did present to the board a plan to try to get all of agricul- 
ture involved, all organized agriculture involved, and actually have a 
big i)olitical rally and fill a place like Chicago Stadium or some similar 
bowl, 

Mr. Weitz. For the President ? 

Mv. Nelson. And have the President come and speak and we tried to 
sell it on the basis that, as well as other candidates too, not just limited 
to the Pi-esident. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that ever undertaken ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. When was that pro]:)Osed ? 



6544 

Mr. Nelson, I don't know. That was a Parr idea and— 

Mr. Weitz. Did he propose it to Mr. (^olson ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't recall. He may have, I don't recall that. We 
did disciiss it with the board. 

Mv. Weitz. Do yon know who, oi- who it was intended, would receive 
this letter? Or who, in fact, received this letter in the White House — 
in the administration ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. 

Mr. AYeitz. Did Mr. Colson receive the letter, amono; others ? 

Mr. Nfxson. I don't know, T don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever meet and discuss this letter with 
Mr. Colson? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. 

INIr. Weitz. You and INIr. Parr and INIr. Colson never talked about 
the intent or the effect of this letter upon his reputation and the "Wliite 
House ? 

Mr. Nelson. Not that I remember, no. I want to make sure T under- 
stand the question. 

Mr. Weitz. Any impact or comment on Mr. Colson, Mr. Colson's 
work in the Wliite House ? You knew of no such inference or any dis- 
cussion yon had with Mr. Colson, concerning the letter, or any in- 
ferences, negative inferences, on INIr. Colson ? 

Mv. Nelson. I don't recall ever having discussed that letter with Mr. 
Colson. 

]\rr. Weitz. And you can ascribe no reason that Mr. Hillings or no 
explanation for an oblique reference in a letter from Mv. Hillings to 
the President, without Mr, Colson's understanding of it, or without 
ever having discussed it with Mr. Colson or anv other representative 
of the AAHiite House? 

Mr. Nelson. I am not following what you are asking me here. 

Mr. Weitz. In other words, Mr. Hillings writes the President and 
makes an oblique reference to a special project which you have no un- 
derstanding of and you say you never discussed with Mr. Colson, Mr. 
Harrison, Mr. Hillings, or anyone, what was intended by this rather 
oblique comment? 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. That's right, they never discussed that 
letter with me. 

Mr. Weitz. Now at that time, you w^ere pressing for a decrease in 
import quotas for a number of products? 

Mr. Nelson. [Nods affirmatively.] 

Mr. Weitz. "VAHiat ultimately resulted? What ultimately resulted 
from your efforts, or what actually took place? 

Mr." Nelson. The Tariff Commission met and actually imposed some 
quotas, and I can't give you the details — too much time has elapsed 
on several items — I mean recommended that the President issue a 
proclamation imposing such quotas. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he do so ? 

Mr, Nelson. He did not do so for quite a period of time. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ultimately do so ? 

Mr. Nelson. He ultimately did so. 



i 



6545 

Mr. "Weitz. Did it meet with — generally accord witli the industry-s 
requests, or efforts'? 

Mr. Nelson. "Well, it didn't go as far as the industry had requested, 
or would have liked it to go. It did cover some evasion practices as he 
mentions in his letter. The letter is a pix^tty good letter on this matter 
of the action of the President, that he took aaid the position that he was 
in at the time. 

]\[r. Weitz. In connection with that, I have a press release which 1 
will nuirk as exhibit 2. 

["Whereupon, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 
No. '2 for identification.*] 

Mr. AVeitz. From AMPI, dated January 5, 1971, referring to the 
speech that jNIr. Butterbrodt made with respect to the import quotas. 
Do you recall the speech which is summarized or referred to in that 
press release ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I don't recall this specific press release if that's 
what you mean. 

Mr. Weitz. No, I asked — the speech. 

]\Ir. Nelson. The speech ? 

^Mr. Weitz. "\Aliich is referred to by Mr. Butterbrodt? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, I don't think he made a speech, I think that 

]\Ir. Weitz. It was just a statement for purposes of the press release. 

Mr. Nelson. Just a statement. I don't believe it was a speech. 

Mr. Weitz. In the last portion of it he says, "President Nixon's 
decision was a stej) toward more stability in our market that will be 
remembered and appreciated by dairy farmers." 

]Mr. Nelson. Yes. Notice he also complains in there. 

Mr. Weitz. There was still an effort to gain low quotas on cheese? 

Mr. Nelson. On lactose and cheese. 

Mr. Weitz. But as far as it went, there was general industry satis- 
faction, or satisfaction on the part of the people at AMPI with respect 
to the import quotas ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. That was a matter that j-ou had discussed with Mr. 
Colson, Itakeit? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes ; we discussed it with Mr. Colson — I'm trying to 
think of — but this is a matter that really involves a lot of expertise, 
these quota things, and we had a discussion with somebody else in the 
AVhite House, over in the Executive Office Building, about this. 

We had several, and I can't think of — T can't recall his name, it 
seems to me at one point we had a meeting with INIr. Peterson. I know 
we had a meeting. Dr. INIehren and I, and I believe Mr. Harrison, Mr. 
Parr, maybe met with Mr. Peterson. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Were contributions discussed? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mv. Weitz. Solely the import quota question? 

'Sir. Nelson. Eight. 

Mv. Weitz. Did you meet with Mr. Cliotiner during that period 
while he was still in the White House, with respect to import quotas? 

*Seep. 6703. 



6546 

Mr. Nelsoist. We met with Mr. Chotiner. I don't — we may have dis- 
cussed import quotas — I can't recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether anyone was meeting with Mr. 
Chotiner, or discussing the import quota question with him while he 
was still in tlie 'Wliite House, on your behalf? 

Mr. Nelson. I think IVIr. Harrison was. 

Mr. Weitz. I would like to mark as exhibit 3, for your identification, 
a letter from Henry Cashen to you, dated January 30, 1971. 

["WHiereupon, tlie document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 
No. 3 for identification.*] 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall receiving a copy of that letter ? 

Mr. Nelson. You know, I received the picture but I don't recall 
receiving this letter. 

Mr. Weitz. This reference to a briefing? What was involved in 
that briefing? Who attended the briefing and for what purpose was 
it held? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, I know what this was now. 

I didn't receive these pictures. This was a briefing on — the Presi- 
dent was adopting some sort of a — this may be totally wrong — it seems 
to me that it had to do with the President's announced intention of 
giving more of the funds used for social welfare programs and that 
sort of thing, to the municipalities — the States and municipalities 
instead of to the — instead of having the Federal Government control it. 

And he lield, over a period of 3 or 4 days, a series of what he called 
briefings, and they would call people in from all over the country 
who were representative of various segments of the economy and 
industry. And they had these things in the Cabinet room and they 
would have the — it seems to me like it was somebody, the Assistant 
Secretary of Treasury, or you know somebody from HEW, I forget — 
but anyway they would have you in there, liave the Cabinet room 
about full. These people would make their pitch, and the President 
would come in and make about a 3-, 4-, 5-minute pitch on the thing, 
trying to build up support or acceptance, that's what this is about. 

Mr. Weitz. Did INIr. Colson or Mr. Colson's office arrange for your 
attendance at one of the briefings? 

Mr. Nelson. Somebody did and I did attend. 

Mr. Weitz. Did anyone else from AMPI attend, or from any of the 
other dairy co-ops ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't remember. There was someone there. I did see 
someone there from — it seems to me, like from the Farm Bureau 
and someone there from, you know, one or two other agricultural 
co-ops, I can't remember who, though. 

Mr. Weitz. Were there contributions in 19G9, after the 1968 elec- 
tion, until the end of 1970, let's take that period of approximately 
slightly more than 2 years. During that period of time, were there 
any contributions, either by TAPE or by AINIPI, through its attor- 
neys and consultants, or by any other means, to any Democratic 
Presidential candidates for the 1972 campaign, for their Presidential 
campaigns ? 

♦See p. 6704. 



6547 

Mr. Nelson. From 1968 to 1070? 

Mr. AVeitz. From the 1968 election to the end of 1970. Were there 
any contributions from TAPE or A]MPI directly or indirectly, to 
1972 Presidential candidates, for their Presidential campaign? 

Mr. Nelsox. From 1968 to 1970, I would say there were contribu- 
tions — let me ask you this. "When did — when was Hubert Humphrey's 
senatorial race ? 

Mr. "\Veitz. "Well. I believe he ran for the Senate in 1970. 

Mr. Neesox. "Well, we contributed to that. 

Mr. "Weitz. And it was your understandings that those contributions, 
those were TAPE contributions or AMPI contributions? 

Mr. Nelsox. I believe that- — you will have to check this out with 
Mr. Lilly, but I believe that those were AMPI contributions. I don't 
believe they were TAPE contributions. There may have been some 
TAPE contributions, too. 

Mr. "Weitz. Xow, those contributions, you don't recall the specific 
amounts or the specific transactions themselves? 

Mr. Xelsox. I don't recall any specific amounts. 

]Mr. Weitz. "Was it your understanding that those contributions by 
TAPE and A^IPI were to the 1970 senatorial campaign of Mr. Hum- 
phrey, or were they also, or in part, to his 1972 Presidential campaign? 

Mr. Xelsox. "Well, I think they were probably both. I don't recall the 
specifics of how it was divided up. I would say it was both. 

Mr. "Weitz. I'm talking about just to the end of 1970, the 1970 
elections. 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, to the end of 1970 — I just believe they were for 
the senatorial, to the end of 1970 I'm just not sure, 

Mr. Weitz. Did you receive requests for those contributions, or were 
you aware how such requests were made or how such contributions 
camo about? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes. 

^Ir. Weitz. Who made those requests? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, those requests were made to me by Mr. Parr. 

Mr. Weitz. And you then communicated them to Mr. Lilly ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, yes. And sometimes — there may have been some 
of those that were handled by Mr. Parr, too; I'm not sure. 

Mr. Weitz. What did Mr. Parr tell you about those requests? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, he just told me, you know, he wanted to make 
the contributions. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he tell you who had asked him for the contributions? 
Who he was in touch with ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Oh, I don't recall Avhat he said at the moment. It would 
be somebody close to Senator Humphrey, somebody in his campaign. 

Mr. Weitz. Were there any reasons why those contributions, if the}' 
were made from AMPI funds, which is your recollection, Avhy they 
were not made from TAPE ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I would say that they didn't want to incur the enmity 
of the administration in power. 



6548 

Mr. Weitz. Were they made in cash ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, you'll have to ask Mr. Lilly, about some — it 
seems to me that those contributions — I don't recall any cash con- 
tributions. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, still talking about this 2-year period until the 
end of 1970, were there any other contributions that were made by 
either TAPE or AMPI that you are aware of, or have heard about, 
that were made at the request of other administration officials? 

Mr. Nelson. Other administration officials? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. Federal administration officials. 

Mr. Nelson. I thought you were talking to me about — made by 
other candidates, requests of other candidates? 

]\fr. Weitz. Well, let's finish that before we get to this. You talked 
about ISIr. Humphrey. Are there any other contributions in 19 — the 
end of 1968, 1969, or'l970, to Presidential Democratic candidates, for 
their Presidential campaigns? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, yes. I can't give you the details on these; for in- 
stance, we made contributions to Wallace. 

Mr. Weitz. That was TAPE ? Or was that AIMPI ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't recall whether it was TAPE or AINIPI, but we 
did make contributions to his campaign. 

Mr. Weitz. What campaign was that in 1969 and 1970? His guber- 
natorial campaign, or his Presidential campaign ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, it nnist have been his Presidential campaign. 

Mr. Weitz. Any others that you can recall ? 

Mr. Nelson. I am sure that we made some contributions to Senator 
Muskie's campaign. 

Mr, Weitz. Senatorial, or the Presidential? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I'm sure it was Presidential; I could be wrong 
about that. I don't have a list of these things, you see, but I know that 
we supported Senator Muskie, 

Mr. Weitz. I'm talking about 1969, 1970 for the Presidential 
campaign. 

Mr. Nelson. You're talking about 1969, 1970, for the 1972 Presi- 
dential campaign ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Nelson. 1969 and 1970 — it is hard for me to pin it down to those 
dates. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Maybe the thing to do is then — wlien we go into the 
Democrats, which we will do in greater detail 

INIr. Sanders. Without limiting it to a specific period- 



Mr. Weitz. I just wanted to make it neater now. Maybe we had best 
return to this at a later time. 

Mr. Nelson. All right. 

Mr. Weitz. Off the record. 

[Discussion off the recorcL] 

[Whereupon, at 1 :05 p.m., the hearing in the above-entitled matter 
recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m., the same day.] 



6549 

Afterxoox Sessiox 

Mr. Weitz. Back on the record. 

Now, Mr. Xelson, before our recess, I think I asked you about an 
attempt to gain the President's attendance at a convention, annual con- 
vention at AMPI in 1970. September of 1970, do you recall that? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And, as I understand it, Secretary Hardin did attend 
and speak to the convention ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. I don't believe he spoke. 

INIr. "Weitz. He attended ? 

Mr. Xelsox. He attended and sat at the speakers table. 

Mr. Weitz. Xow, who were you in contact with to try and have the 
President attend? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, we were in contact with ]Mr. Harrison, Mr. Parr 
did not attend the meeting, he stayed in Little Rock the day of the 
meeting and I don't know who all he was contacting. I didn't per- 
sonally make any contacts that day in connection with getting the 
President to attend. I had given up on his attending by then. 

Mr. Weitz. Before the day of the meeting, who had you — who did 
you, or on 3'our behalf 

Mr. Xelsox\ Well, we were relying on Mr. Colson, as I recall, and of 
course Mr. Harrison. 

Mr. Weitz. Was any reason given to you why the President wasn't 
able to attend ? 

]Mr. Xelsox. Yes, sir. He said tliat he was at San Clemente with the 
President of Mexico. 

yir. Weitz. Xow, during the course of the convention, you received 
a telephone call from the President ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. I believe I earlier responded that we received a call, 
I received a call from the President, just as the convention was being 
convened. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ask someone that he call, or how did it come 
about that he called you at tlie convention ? 

Mr. Xelsox\ Xo : t don't recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ask for you specifically ? 

]Mr. Xelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Had you ever met the President before that time? 

Mr. Xelsox\ I don't believe I had. 

ISfr. Weitz. Do you know how he obtained your name ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Well, I'm sure through the people who were urging him 
to come to the meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. I see, including 

]\[r. Xelsox. And this mav. or mav not, be so. T feel sure that we 
had sent a written invitation, but maybe not. 

Mr. Weitz. What did the President tell you over the phone ? 

Mr. Xetsox. The gist of it was that he asked me to express to the 
meeting his recrrets at being unable to attend ; to remind them that 
even though he hadn't — that he didn't have a farm background : hadn't 



6550 

been reared on a farm as such, and so forth, he wasn't an agriculturist ; 
that ho was aware of their ])robleni ; he had been close to people who 
were in agriculture; that a matter of fact I believe he said that his 
onginal district as a Congressman from Orange County, that agi'icul- 
ture was an important economic segment of that county and that he 
had long demonstrated his concern in matters agricultural and that 
he had asked Secretary Hardin to announce favorable action on — I 
can't recall whether it was school lunch or school milk program — I 
believe it was school milk program and that he was going to announce 
it there that evening and also that he would like to attend our next 
meeting, the next annual meeting. 

He also mentioned that Secretary Hardin had talked to him about 
having dairy leaders meet with him and that we would be hearing 
from him shortly to arrange such a meeting. That is the general gist 
of the convei'sation as I recall it. I put up the receiver and went back 
in and as soon as the meeting was convened, I reported that I had just 
had that conversation with the President. 

Mr. Wp:itz. Had you discussed with Secretary Hardin, before that 
conversation, the desirability of a meeting between the President and 
dairy leaders? 

Mr. Nelsox. As I recall, we had. 

Mr. Weitz. Had you done it on a number of occasions, or just once? 

Mr. Nelsox. Oh, I can't tell you. 

Mr. Weitz. And was Mr. Parr — did he accompany you when you 
went to speak with Mr. Hardin about that matter ? 

Mr. Nelsox. As I recall, he did. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Harrison with you ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I believe so, 

Mr. Weitz. Anyone else that you can recall ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I don't believe there was anyone else. 

Mr. Weitz. What other matters did you discuss with Secretary 
Hardin ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Oh, matters pertaining to the dairy industry in which 
we were interested. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, do you recall meeting Avitli the President at the 
White House shortly after the 1970 convention ? I mean shortly there- 
after, within a couple of weeks ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Who met with the President ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Mv. Par-r and I. 

Mr, Weitz. How" did that come about? Who arranged the meeting, 
and so forth ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I don't know. I believe we received the information 
from ]Mr. Harrison that we were going to be invited — this was pur- 
suant to that telephone call, I mean made at the meeting, that was 
the followup. 

Mr. Weitz. Did the President, or you, during the telephone con- 
versation, indicate that you wanted to meet witli the President? Or 
did he ask to meet with you very soon thereafter? 



6551 

Mr. Nfxsox. He expressed— he was saying that— he referred to his 
conversation with Secretary Hardin and said that we would be hear- 
ing from him, as I recall he said we would be hearing from him veiy 
soon, or words to that effect. 

Mr. Weitz. But I thought you said that referred to a meeting be- 
tween him and a number of dairy leaders ? 

Mr. Nelsox. It did, but also, this meeting that you are now asking 
me about, I view as a preliminary to that other meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Well you had met with :Mr. Colson and kept meeting 
with :Mr. Colson ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And with Secretary Hardin. Was it necessai-y as you 
underetood it, for there to be a preliminary meeting with the President 
himself in advance of another meeting with the President? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I didn't feel it was necessary. 

Mr. Weitz. 'Who arranged the meeting ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't know. I wouM assume that Mr. Colson did. 

Mr. Weitz. And did you deal directly with Mr. Colson or through 
Mr. Harrison, with respect to attendance at that meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, I don't recall. It seems to me we got a call from 
somebody at the White House who said that, you know, the President 
would see us on a given date at a given time and we went. Probably 
through Mr. Harrison. 

Mr. Weitz. Why did not Mr. Harrison attend the meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. I assume he wasn't invited, 

Mr. Weitz. What was discussed at the meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall the meeting, it was a very short meeting. 
The President, once again, told us that he had had good reports about 
the — you know, the meeting, we sure had a big meeting, and expressed 
his regrets at not having come ; and kidded Dave Parr about having 
football shoulders, as I recall, or a football neck. And once again re- 
ferred to the conversation he had had with Secretary Hardin about 
setting up a meeting of dairy industry leaders, and said that he wanted 
to do that as quickly as he could, ancl that was just about the sum and 
substance of that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you indicate that you were supporters of the Presi- 
dent, or that your group was a supporter of the President? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't recall that I did at that time, I believe I re- 
sponded on the telephone by telling him that there were — that we 
regretted that he wasn't there because he would have found a very 
friendly audience. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you mention, or were campaign contributions men- 
tioned, in any way ? 

]Mr. Nelson. No, not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss any dairy problems, or matters that were 
then pending? 

Mr. Nelson. No, it Avasn't that kind of a — it wasn't that kind of a 
meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us, turning now to the question of milk 
price supports for 1971, when the first effort began on the part of 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 12 



6552 

AMPI to obtain an increase, by whatever means, for the 1971-72 
marketing year? 

Mr. Nelson. I can't tell you precisely. It would have begun months 
before in assembling data and projections, and that sort of thing, in 
support of favorable action. 

Mr. Weitz. "When you say "months before," would it have been as 
early as late 1970, for example? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh , yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And with whom did you, or representatives of the dairy 
people, meet with members of the administration ? 

Mr. Nelson. We met with Secretary Hardin, we met with Secretary 
Campbell — let's see, we met with Tender Secretary Campbell, Secre- 
tary Lyng, Secretary — we talked with ]\Ir. Colson. 

My. Weitz. Did you meet with all of those individuals ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Vfiio was present at those meetings ? 

Mr. Nelson. The various people. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Parr generally present at those meetings? 

Mr. Nelson. Generally, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Harrison? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Hillings? Was Mr. Hillings present at all those 
meetings ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Hillings may have been present one time when wc 
met with Secretary Hardin, I don't really recall that he was, but I 
don't believe he was ever present when we met with any of those other 
people. 

Mr. Weitz. And at these meetings, you presented various data to 
them with respect to the position of the dairy co-ops ? 

Mr. Nelson. What you might call, mostly unwritten views and argu- 
ments, and also some written papers on the subject. 

Mr. Weitz. And did you, during this period late 1970, the first sev- 
eral months of 1971, mount an effort or organize to obtain congres- 
sional support? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, we did. 

Mr. Weitz. How did you go about doing that ? 

"Mr. Nelson. Well, the congressional effort, you understand, wasn't 
an A;MPI effort alone. The head of this was the National ^lilk Pro- 
ducers Federation which enlisted the aid of its — or attempted to en- 
list the aid of all of its members. 

The prime movers in this effort, I would say, were AMPI, Mid- 
America, and Dairymen, Inc. Those were the prime movers. We also 
had, as I recall, one prime op])onent to it, initially, and that was an- 
other cooperative Land O' Lakes, which is legally a cooperative, but 
has a different philosophical approach to the whole thing than these 
other marketing groups. And so this support was pretty widespread 
throughout the United States, as far as dairy cooperatives were 
concerned. 

And their members, or representatives, would call on their respective 
Congressmen and Senators asking them to coauthor a bill setting the 
supports at 90 percent. 



6553 

Mr. "Weitz. Xow, what time period are we talkino; about? The first 
decision by tlie vSecretary of Aoricnlture, not raising price supports, 
was March 12. Would you have begun this effort, let's say, a month or 
2 months befoi-e that time ? 

Mr. Nklsox. I would say at least that. 

Mr. AVeitz. At least a month or 2 months ? 

Mr. Xelsox. At least that. 

Mr. Weitz. So it would be fair to say that throughout the early part 
of 1971, the first 2iA. 8 months of 1971, you were meeting both with 
representatives of the administration, and also with the various Con- 
gressmen and so forth, to obtain their support, in contracting whoever 
they felt was appropi-iate in ordei- to try to obtain an increase, and also 
to perhaps solicit their support for a bill to raise the support level? 

Mr. Xelsox. You're talking about ''you.'' you're not using the per- 
sonal pronoun, you're using the whole collective effort? Yes, that's 
right. 

^Ii'. Weitz. Was it contemplated, let's say, in February or March 
1971, that a bill would be, or you hoped, would be introduced into Con- 
gress to raise the support level ? 

Mr, Xelsox. I believe it was before that. 

Mr. Weitz. So part of this whole strategy was both to approach the 
administration pretty much from the outset in obtaining an adminis- 
trative increase if possible, but also to obtain congressional support 
and possibly congressional action ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes. 

Mr, Weitz. Did you communicate your information, or the fact that 
you were making this effort, this congressional effort to anyone in the 
administration ? 

]Mr. Xelsox. I don't recall any specific communication, but it was no 
secret. There wasn't anything furtive about the effort with Congress, 
It was a well-known, well -publicized fact. 

Mr. Weitz. Let's go off the record. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

[A brief recess was taken.] 

^Ir. Weitz. ^Ir. Xelson, I would like to mark as exhibit Xo. 4 a letter 
and and attachment from Marion Harrison to Secretary Hardin, dated 
January 14, 1971. 

[Whereupon, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 
Xo. 4 for identification.*] 

Mr. Weitz. Have you ever seen a copy of this letter or the 
attachment ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I don't remember having seen a copy of it, but this last, 
this list of names on here, I believe pretty well — I think it pretty well 
reflects the list of people who were at that meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you provide this list to Mr. Harrison? 

Mr. Xelsox. I don't recall having provided it to him. As I recall, he 
did ask me who we thought should be present, and we suggested names 

to him. 

. ■ ; . ■•" ' '. . 

♦See p. 6705. JT 



6554 

I believe there is one person wlio attended tliat meeting — I could 
be wrong — whose name is not on there. 

Mr. Weitz. Who is that? 

jNIr. Nklson. That's what I was looking for. I believe Mv. Sullivan 
was there. They have Mr. Griffin there, and I think he was there. But 
T also believe Mr. Sullivan was there. T might be wrong. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, in January of 1971, when this letter was written, 
was it already known that there would be a meeting, or was it as- 
sumed there would be a meeting with the Pi'esident sometime in the 
spi'ing or sometiuie following 

]\rr. Nei^sox. Well, that was the meeting I was telling you, that 
the President talked to us about having. 

^Ir. Weitz. Right. But at that time, did he indicate when it would 
take place? 

Mv. Nelson. Well, as I recall at that time we were thinking that 
it would occur much earlier than this. 

Mr. Weitz. T see. 

Now, were you told in January of 1071. that the meeting was being 
planned, and these names had been ]:)i-ovided to Secretary ITardin ? 

Mv. Nelsox. I don't recall having been told they were i)io\ided to 
Seci'etary Hardin. I was thinking they had been provided to the 
White PTouse. 

Mr. Weitz. You were told that? You were told thev were ]n'o\'ided 
to the White House? 

Mr. Nelson. That is my recollection, that I was told they were 
provided to the White House. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, on the last page on the attachment on the list of 
names there is written in "Chotiner ?" 

Do you know the significance of that ? 

Mr. Nelson. I didn't notice that. 

Mr. Wi':itz. The very last page of the attachment. 

Mr. Nelson. T — no, I don't know the significance. 
' Mr. Weitz. Was there ever a question or did you know of any dis- 
cussion with resjH^ct to whether Mr. Chotiner wo\dd attend (lie meet- 
ing Avith the President ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I don't recall any discussion about whether he 
would attend. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know when Mr. Chotiner left the White House ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. PTariison was in contact 
Avith Mr. Chotiner before he left the White House in 1971 Avith respect 
to this meeting? 

Mv. Nelson. I don't knoAv about Avith respect to the meeting, but 
he Avas in contact Avitli him Avith respect to matters pertaining to the 
dairy industry. 

Mr. Weitz.' Was he in contact Avith him Avith respect to the ])rice- 
sui^jiort increase? 

Mv. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you attend any of those meetings? 



6555 

j\fr Xei.sotst. I met with j\fr. Cliotiner once in a small office at the 
White House. I believe it was either Mr. Harrison and I or Mr. Harri- 
son and ]\rr. Parr and I. 

Mr. Weitz. And you discussed dairy price supports ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I don't remember whether it was price supports or 
whether it was the import. 

Mr. Weitz. One of the two ? 

Mr. Nelsox. One of the two and maybe both. 

Mr. Weitz. Was this in 1970 or 1971 '? 

INIr. Xelsox. I can't be sure about that. 

Mr. Weitz. It was in ^Nlr. Chotiner's office, did you say ? 

Mr. Xelsox. It was in an office in the White House. 

jNIr, Weitz. And ]Mr. Chotiner was still a member of the A'NHiite 
House staff? 

Mv. Xelsox. Yes. I don't recall when he left the White House. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you have any knowledfje of any meetings between 
someone on behalf of AMPI and either Mv. Dent or Mr. Ehrlichman 
with respect to milk price supports in 1971 ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I liave no knowledi^e of any. We met with INIr. Dent, 
but it seems to me that tliat was in 1970, and I have no knowledge, or 
I don't recall any meetino; with Mr. Dent other than that one time. 

Xow. as far as ^Ir. P^hrlichman is concerned, I never had any meeting 
with Mv. Ehrlichman at any time. 

Mv. Weitz. Do you know whether anyone on your behalf did? 

My. Xelsox'. Xo, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mv. Harrison normally report to you with whom he 
was meeting? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo, he just would report that he had certain informa- 
tion, or that he had talked 

Mr. Weitz. Was he meeting with Mv. Colson in early 1971? 

Mr. Xelsox'. I was under the impression that Mr. "Colson was the 
man he met. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. 

Xow, you mentioned before that the contact Avith various congres- 
sional leaders and various Members of Congress was also pait of the 
strategy- in early 1971 to obtain a milk price-support increase, either 
legislatively or administratively. With whom did 3'oii meet? 

Mr. Xelsox'. I met with Wilbur drills and — as I recall — and this can 
be wrong — I may have met with Chairman Poage, and probably with 
Page Belcher, and I'm sure that I met with one or two or maybe more 
others, but not very many. 

Mr. Weitz. And the thi'ust of your meetings was to obtain their sup- 
port in introducing legislation and also asking the administration to 
i-aise the |)rice-support level ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And this was well in advance of the first decision? 

Mv. Xelsox. Oh. yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Months before, perhaps? 

Mv. Xelsox^. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. One or 2 months before, you said ? 



6556 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Who accompanied yon to these meetings ? 

Mr. Nelson. Genei-ally, Mr. Parr. 

;Mr. Weitz. ^Vliat aboiit Mr. Lilly ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't recall that ]Mr. Lilly accompanied me on these 
things. He might have. 

Mr. Weitz. What was Mr. Lilly's role during this period? Was he 
in contact with either Members of Congress or anyone in the admin- 
istration on your behalf ? 

J\Ir. Nelson. Well, Mr. Lilly would have contacted Congressmen 
other than those I would be talking to in the main, and he would be 
working with people out in the various regions and divisions, getting 
them to talk to their Congressmen, and then going and talking to them. 

Mr. Weitz. "V^Hio from the other co-ops was actively engaged in the 
activities similar to yours ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, there was a large number of people. 

Mr. Weitz. How about — let's say from INIid-America ? Who would 
be the principal persons ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, the principal person would be Gary Hanman. 

Mr. Weitz. Wliat about Dairymen, Inc ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, the principal person would have been Paul 
Alagia and Paul Westwater, and Ben Morgan and others. You under- 
stand, the way this was done, you brought in dairy farmers themselves 
to go talk to their Congressmen. 

Mr. Weitz. And they were also encouraged to write to their 
Congressmen ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. -• 

Mr. Weitz. And this was done well in advance of the first decision — 
January, February, March, all the way through that period ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Now, there were other — I don't mean to try to say that this was an 
effort exclusively by these three cooperatives. There were others, but 
I would say that I didn't consider them to be as effective because they 
didn't keep at it as far as getting their members in there to talk to 
these Congressmen and so forth. 

Mr. Weitz. Were there documents that were prepared and pre- 
sented to either Congressmen or members of the administration? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me show you Townsend exhibit 3*, a document en- 
titled "The Dairy Industry and the Public Interest : The Need for a 
Price Support Increase,'" dated February 24, 1971, and signed Asso- 
ciated Dairymen, Inc. 

Mr. Weitz. Have you ever seen that document ? 

Mr. Nelson. I'm sure I have if it was put out by Associated Dairy- 
men. 

Do you want me to take time to read this Avhole thing? 

Mr. Weitz. I'm not going to ask 

Mv. Nelson. If it's an Associated Dairymen docmnent. I was the 
manager of Associated Dairvmen also. 



♦See Book 14, p. 6332. 



6557 

Mv. Weitz. Who was rosponsihle. to your kuowlodf^e, in preparing 
that document i 

^Iv. Xelsox. AVell, this would liave been a joint effort, and I can 
just name a gi'oup of individuals whoui I feel contributed to it. Or 
do you want to ask me ? 

Mr. Weitz. All from AINIPI ? 

]\Ir. Xelsox. From AINIPI it would have been — let's see — what's the 
date of this thino;? 

Well, I would say Dr. INIehren, Lynn Elrod, Tom Townsend, Joe 
Murphy, probably Arthur INIiller. 

You're talkin<; about just f roui AINIPI ? 

Mr. "Weitz. "What about the other two co-ops ? 

]\Ir. Xelsox. Well, it would not be the other tAvo particularly'. There 
wouhl be — Associated Dairymen was made up of a broader spectrum 
than just the other two, so there would have been — let's see, probably 
Jim Reeves is another one I didn't name. 

Mr. Weitz. And others ? ■ 

Mr. Xelsox. And others, people who are primarily marketing 
specialists. 

]Mr. Weitz. And did a document like this — or does that document 
generally reflect the arguments that were presented to the various 
Members of Congress and the administration during that period? 

Mr. Nelsox'^. Yes. 

You understand I don't recall the document, but this is the sort of 
thing. It's labeled "xVssociated Daiiymen." It would have been — I 
would have been familiar with it at the time. 

^Iv. Weitz. Do you recall whether the matter of increased feed cost 
from the previous year was a matter that was pressed and raised in 
these various meetings as one reason for an increase in price supports? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Ordinarily that would be one of the reasons raised. 

jNIr. Weitz. In fact, if I may have the document back, I think I 
can show you a section which refers to that. 

Mr. Xelsox'. All right. 

]Mr. Weitz. And see whether that i-efreshes your recollection. 

Beginning on page 9 of the document, Roman numeral III, the 
heading reads, "Despite recent milk price increases, average income to 
dairy farmers remains extremely low and dairy producers are faced 
with a continuing cost-pi'ice squeeze." 

Is that the section — if you Avill look at it — that would refer to the 
question of prices, feed costs to farmei's and their relation to prices? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Here you have a table of milk feed price ratios in here. 

INIr. Weitz. So that would presumably cover the matter of increased 
feed cost? 

]Mr. Xelsox'. Yes. 

]Mr. Weitz. Xow, you've mentioned the contacts with officials in 
the Department of Agriculture and various Congressmen, and also in 
the White House. INIr. Colson among others, and perhaps INIr. Chotiner. 
Were you aware of any contacts that were being made on your behalf 
with Mr. Connally. 



6558 

jVIr. Nklson. ]\Ir. Jacobsen. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us what his contacts were with jNIr. Con- 
nally diirino; this period, during the period up to ]March, through 
March of 1971? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, he would take a position paper to Mr. Connally, 
as I recall, and try to make him, or educate him on the facts sur- 
rounding the contentions we were making. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know how many times he talked to Mr. 
Connally? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't really know. I really don't know how man}' 
times. 

INIr. "Weitz. Could you tell us how many times, let's say. before the 
first decision by the Secretary of Agriculture? 

Mr. Nelson. T really can't tell you. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he report back to you about his meetings with Sec- 
retary Connally? 

]Mr. Nelson. I knew that he was having theuL He told me that he 
was having the meetings with Secretary Connally. 

Mr. Weitz. Did anyone accompany him on those meetings? 

ISIr. Nelson. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ev^er have an opportunity, or did you ever dis- 
cuss during February or March of 1971 with Mr. Jacobsen and others 
the desirability of committing or contributing additional moneys in 
order to secui'e Mr. Connally's assistance with regard to tlie milk price- 
su]:)port decision? 

INIr. Nelson. I don't think that was a condition of securing his as- 
sistance. We were in tliis position, you understand, of already liaving 
expressed our willingness, what I view as repeatedly, to make con- 
tributions in much greater amounts than we had made, and we were 
in^I know it's hard to believe, but this is an absolute- fact. They 
wouldn't come up with the committees. We couldn't believe it ourselves. 
But that is the position we were constantly in with these people. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Well, let me ask you this. Did you have a discussion with 
Mr. Jacobsen with respect to making additional contributions, whether 
or not — and at the same time you had discussed a meeting he had had 
with Mr. Connally, quite apart from whether one was antecedent or 
dependent on the other? 

In other words, did you have discussions in Avhich you discussed 
Mr. Connally's assistance, and in the same discussion discussed the 
need for or the desirability of making additional contril^utions? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't recall that. jNfr. Jacobsen was well aware of the 
fact that we had made these offers of contributions and had asked for 
names of committees, and that we didn't have them. 

Mr. Weitz. How was he aware of that ? 

Mr. Nelson. Because 1 had told hiuL 

INfr. Weitz. You told him specifically about the attempts in 1970 to 
obtain committee names, the attempt to contribute perhaps even $1 
m illion or $2 million ? 

Mr. Nelson. T don't recall that we liad told him about specific 
amounts, but we piobably did. But I do recall having mentioned to him 



6559 

that wo couldn't iioi committeos out of those })eoplo. "Wo just couldn't 
understand wiiy wo couldn't aot comniittoos. And as a niattor of fact, 
at tho time T loft tlio position of iionoral niana<ior, wo wore still tryin*]^ 
to irot nanios of comniittoos. 

^Iv. AV?:rrz. AVoll, lot me ask you tliis. I can undoi'stand that someone 
wants to show tiioirsu]iport and ap])ro('iation. 

If the candidate — in this case, on behalf of the President, the fund- 
raisers for the President are unable repeatedly upon your request to 
produce names of committeos. which is the only leaal way you are per- 
mitted to make such contributions in excess of $5,000 

^fr. Xei>sox. Ki<jht. 

]\rr. AVF.rrz. Why did you constantly press foi- the names, if you had 
a))parently fulHlled tho need to appear to be voit willing suppoi-tors 
of the I'rosidont ? 

Mr. Nelson. I think that's a "food question. "Constantly" is prob- 
ably a little too strono- a word. 

Mr. Weitz. Frequently. 

Mr. Nei.sox. But continually or frequently. 

Because — T will toll you why. Others may have had other reasons, 
but the main reason in tho back of my mind was that it was well known 
that we wore supporting: the President, that wo had conducted drives 
amon<>: dairy farmers and othoi^, not oidy in TAPE but in other 
groups — ADEPT and SPACE and elsewhere — urging: them to become 
involved politically, and talkinfj about the fact that we would he called 
upon to ^ive these lartje sums of money. And it was a constant thing 
in tho back of my mind that if we didn't got the names of these com- 
mittees we might bo i-oad off just because of some inept — foi- want of 
a better term I will say "bureaucrat'' — within the ]>arty hierarchy not 
coming f oith and giving us the names of the committees. 

Mr. Weitz. Did this also prevent you from obtaining more subscrib- 
oi's to TAPE, by having this large surplus in your account? 

Mr. Nei^^ox. Well, it's always 

Mr. Weitz. Or did you think that w^as the case ? 

Mr. Xei^sox. Well, I don't recall liaving thought that at the time. 
Now it sounds like a very good reason. You see — but just to l>e candid 
with you, I don't believe that occurred to me at the time. 

Mr. Weitz. You didn't mind having a lot of money in the account, 
in the TAPE account, that had not boon expended ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, one reason for continuing — no, that wasn't the 
main i-eason. The main reason was 

Afr. Weitz And you never expressed that to anyone? 

Mr. Neusox-^. Not that I recall. I don't believe that occurred to me. 
Th.en it may have, but if it did I have forgotten it. 

The thing that occurred to me then was that in connection mth 
those large amounts, that if you're going to malce such contributions, 
it is much better to make them ovoi- a longer period of time than to 
go whomp, you know, and get a largo amount of publicity over the 
fact that you are contributing. I've used that contention a lot in talk- 
ing to these people about — get the names of the committoes. 



6560 

Mr, Weitz. Was that discussed in tlie meotiiiu' witli Mv. Evans 
and Mr. Ivalni})acli and Colson in 1970? That is, o(>ttin<i" the committees 
so that contributions could be^in and be made over a period of time? 

Mr. Nelsox. I don't recall diseiissinii; it in that meeting", but I recall 
discussing it in earlier meetinos with Mr. Colson. 

Mr. Weitz. And that was one of the reasons v:hy you were inter- 
ested* — if you were going to make a large contribution, yon did not 
w^ant to make it all at once so as to attract publicity? 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. 

Mr. Weitz. Did jNIr. Colson ever ex])i-ess displeasure to yon or to 
anyone representing you with respect to the fact that you had not yet 
made any contributions other than in the 1970 campaign and in 1969? 

Mr. Nelson. He wasn't in any position to do that because he hadn't 
produced the names of the committees. He was in no position at all. 

Mr. WvATZ. Did he ever express his displeasure to you or to anyone ? 
Are you aware of a displeasure he expressed with respect to the Pat 
Hillings letter which we referred to before as exhibit — just for the 
record it is identified as Nelson exhibit No. 1? 

;Mr. Nelson. No, I don't recall that at all. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he express displeasure with either Mr. Harrison or 
Mr. Hillings because of the letter ? 

Mr. Nelson. Not that I know of. 

Mr, Weitz, Were you ever told of that ? 

Mr. Nelson. The first I heard of that letter was when it became a 
matter of public knowledge. 

INIr. Weitz. Did he ever expi-ess displeasure with INIr. PTarrison and 
Mr. Hillings, no matter what the reason ? In otlier words, did it ever 
come to your attention that Mr. Colson was unhappy with INIr. Harrison 
or Mr. Hillings representing AMPI ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. With respect to the administration — representing AMPI 
with respect to the administratioii ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, not to me. No. 

]Mr. Weitz. Now, you mentioned that Mr. Jacobsen saw Mr. Con- 
nally. Did you say "several times," you believed, during this period, on 
the price-support question? 

]Mr. Nelson. That is the impiession I am under, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did INIr. Connallv say that he would talk to someone in 
the administi'ation on your behalf to assist von ? 

Mr. Nelson. It was my understanding th.at Mr. Connally was going 
to attempt to use his ability, whatever it might be, to further the posi- 
tion we were takini*;. 

Mr. Weitz. Didn't IMr. Jacobsen tell you that it would be wise to 
commit additional moneys in addition to what had been mentioned 
before in order to assure yourself of Mr. C^onnally's assistance ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Jacobsen knew — no, Mr. Jacobsen didn't tell me 
that because Mr. Jacobsen knew that we were ]irepared, if they would 
give ns the names of committees — anybody that was, you know, under 
the proper auspices of the White House that gave us names of com- 
mittees — we were prepared to make contributions. 



6561 

Mr. Weitz. Above and bovond what had been discussed, and above 
and beyond perhaps tlio intended tiniin<; at some hiter date. 

There was no discussion of niakinjj: (■ontril)utions rig^ht aAvay in a 
sul)stantial amount as a ^ood faith indication of your support in order 
to obtain, or because of, Mr. (^onnally s assistance on the price-support 
question ? 

Mr. Nei^sox. I don't recall any specifics of that. I may have said that 
myself, because I constantly made it known that I was unhappy with 
the fact that we couldn't (jet names of committees. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Connally talk to anyone in the administration 
on your behalf or on the price-support question ? 

Mr. Nei^ox. Well of course, you liave to ask JNIr. Connally that. 

Mr. Weitz. Are j'ou aware of any contracts ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No one over there has told me specifically that he did 
talk, but I assume that Mr. Connally talked to the President. 

Mr. Weitz. Why do you assume that ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Because he Mas in a position to talk to the President 
about it. And I further assume that he talked to the Council — well, 
I don't know whether you say in this administration or not — but the 
Council of Economic Advisers, or its equivalent, because that is where 
the roadblock in any administration oenerally is to obtaining favorable 
action on such prooframs. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there any attempt by AMPI to ]3urchase cheese 
in the be^innin^ of 1971 to drive the jirice up to better improve the 
chances of obtaining a price-support increase ? 

Mr. Neesox. There Avere purchases made by AMPI of cheese in an 
attempt to neonate what AMPI considered to be the rigging of the price 
downward by a few large dealers. 

Mr. Weitz. So you are saying it was an attempt to raise the price 
back up subject to pressure, as a result of pressure from others ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. AMPI purchased the cheese for that purpose and not 
l)ecause it needed the cheese ? 

Mr. Nelsox. AMPI was marketing cheese continuously. 

Mr. Weitz. But the reason for purchasing the cheese was not pri- 
marily for the need of the cheese at that time, Init was to counter this 
artificial pressure downward ; is that what you are saying? 

Mr. NfJvSOX. That would be one of the primary reasons, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. All right. 

Now, you said you assume that IVIr. Connally spoke with the Presi- 
dent. I would like to show you — and you have been shown it a number 
of times before, but I think it behooves us to sliow it to you again — a 
copy, which I will mark as exhibit No. 5, of what has been testified 
to in a previous deposition of yours to have come from the back of a 
fact document relatinir to milk price supports. 

["\^niereupon, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 
No. 5 for identification.*] 

Mr. Weitz. I know you have seen this before. I would like to show 
it to you again, though, and go over with you the circumstance which 

•See p. 6709. 



6562 

you believe resulted in that written piece of paper and what it might 
mean or read. 

Could you first try to read it for us as best you can ? 

Mr. Nelsox. "Well, this was — I don't want to cast any aspersion on 
your copies, but this is about tlie worst one I liave seen of this thing. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, wlien you get copies of copies this is what liappens. 

How about if I read to you from your previous dei)Osition and see 
wliether you disagree with any of the reading of it, ancl you can follow 
along on the exhibit ? 

Mr. Nelson. All right. 

Mr. Weitz. And this is on page 75 of your deposition in Nader v. 
Blitz: "Schultz, every dime nnist be cut down, squiggle,'' whicli I as- 
sume is trying to read something tliat you feel is ilk^gible. 

"Schultz has got to be instructed." Tlien an illegible word. Tlien, 
"Talk to Schultz and Pres. 30 minutes. Told Pres. we were most ag- 
gressive political organization in America.'' 

Then another line, an uncom])leted sentence, plus, "didn't give." 
And that is the end of your reading. 

And then you are coi-rected. You said, "in America,'" ancl it was 
pointed out ])or]iaps that was, "in agriculture," and you agreed witli 
tliat rereading of it. 

Does that accord with, no matter how bad our copy is, with wliat 
you remember to have read f roui that document ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall the circumstances in whicli you wrote 
this document? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. This is your handwiiting? 

Mr. Nelson. Thafs mv handwriting. 

Mr. Weitz. And you recall that in the previous deposition you indi- 
cate, it was indicated to you that it was taken from the back of a work- 
ing paper with respect to milk price supports ? 

Mr. Nelson. The sort of thing that 

Mr. Weitz. We have indicated before. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

INfr. Weitz. But you do not remember wlien you wrote this ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. What is now marked as exhil)it No. 5 ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

INIr. Weitz. Now, would you like to take another look at it and 
under the word that you designated as illegible, would you like to 
look at that word, which I am iiow pointing to, and tell us whether 
you can now identify that, or whether you know that to be "Connally" ? 

INIr. Nelson. Well, I don't know that <o be, but I would agi-ee with 
you that I can see how it could be. That could be the construction you 
put on it. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, let me ask you this. I can put a lot of construc- 
tions on this. You ai*e here under oath. You may not remember writing 
that document as to the date, the time, the place, and so forth. But I am 
asking vou whether, looking at that document and looking at that 



6563 

word, whether j'oiir best reading of it and your- best recollection is that 
that word is "Connally"? 

Mr. Nelson. I just can't toll what the woi'd is. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, let ns think back now. This is not a document that 
someone else prepared. You prepaied the document. 

Mr. Xelsox. Now, this is not part of a document that T prepared. 
This is off tlie back of some document. 

Mr. Weitz. Yes, I'm sorry. Now I'm just talking about what you 
wrote on the back of the document. 

The handwritino: is yours, therefore you wrote those woi-ds that ap- 
pear, a copy of Avliich we now have as exhibit No. 5. Now you wrote 
those word's, and it talks about Scliultz, "Every dime nuist be cut 
down," "Schultz has got to be instructed," blank, squiggle oi- whatever 
that we are trying now to decipher, ''talk to Schultz," and it goes on to 
say riglit after that, "talk to Schultz and Pres. 30 minutes," and so 
foi-th. NoAv, in the context of what we have been discussing and the 
context of the people you were trying to contact and the context of 
the effort of trying to obtain an increase in price suppoi'ts, together 
with what you are able to decipher fi'om youi* own handwriting, can 
you tell us whether that appeal's to be the name "Connally"? 

Mr. Neesox. Well, I can't tell it any more now than I ever could. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you assume it to be Mr. Connally's name? 

Do you assume that in the context there of what is written there that 
you would have Avritten "Connally"? 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, it just hard for me to say. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me put it this way. 

Have you ever tal]\ed to anyone else in 1971 with respect to milk price 
supi)orts who told you they had talked to — have you talked to aiiyone 
who told you they had talked to Schultz or the President about milk 
price supports? 

Mv. Nelsox. Well probably, I don't recall any specific conversa- 
tions, but T would say it is likely that Secretary Hardin told ns that 
he talked to Schultz and the President. 

^fr. AVeitz. Well that doesn't look like Hardin, in any way? 

Mr. Nelsox. No, it doesn't. 

Afr. Weitz. Did anyone else, to your knowledge, on your behalf or 
with respect to this matter, talk to Scliultz or the President that you 
would have become aware of? 

Mr. Nelsox. I understand it could have been some of the key con- 
gressional chairmen, had done that. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there anybody else that 3'ou can read into that 
word ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No. 

]\rr. Weitz. AMint your testimony is, that you still do not read that 
as Connally? Or, in the context of what you know to have been the 
facts at the time, who you were talking to and what knowledge von 
had? 

Mr. Nelsox. You see, I don't even know when this Avas Avritten, you 
see — as far as putting it in context is concerned — as to when it was 
written. 



6564 

Mr. Weitz. Well if it was written on the back of a docinnent relat- 
in»i- to milk price supports in 1071. do you assume, or do you have any 
recollection that it was probably written sometime durino- that period 
when you were trying to obtain a price suppoit incix-ase? 

Mr. Nelson. "Well if it was written on the back of one of those docu- 
ments, yes. But you understand we had documents on other thinos. too. 

Mr. Weitz. What does this mean : "The President aware, the Presi- 
dent, we were most ao;(rressive political organization in agriculture." 

Mr. Nelsox. Well I think that's true, that we M-ere the most. 

Mr. Weitz. And to your knowledg;e, or your understanding, was the 
President aware of that ? 

Mr. Nelsox. That would be the connotation that I would — either 
that he was aware, or that he had been told that. 

Mr. Weitz. So that would make him aware of it ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, I'm just talking- about the implication of the note. 

Mr. Weitz. Right. And then the final line— "didn't give."— The 
last line, as I say, indicates "didn't give", what does that mean ? 

jNIr. Nelsox. It looks to me — I looked at it there — just the two woixls 
there, it looks to me like I started to wiite a sentence and didn't finish 
it. 

Mr. Weitz. Besides what it looks like to you, do you recall whether 
it, in fact, refers to the fact that you didn't give to the Pi-esident 

Mr. Nelsox. I have no recollection of having written that at all. 

Mr. Weitz. I'm not asking you that. I say, having shown you this, 
does it refresh your recollection of what you meant by this, or what 
you had in mind during this period, was the fact that your organiza- 
tion had not given to the President ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No. I just don't — I'm not trying to not respond to your 
question, but I just flat don't remember that memo and I don't know 
what that means. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Your testimony is that you don't know what it means ? 

Mr. Nelsox. The "didn't give" ? 

]Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

INIr. Nelsox. Yes, as a matter of fact, I think your construction 
would be wrong because I believe at that point we had given — we had 
given, w^e had made contributions. 

Mr. Weitz. How much ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I can't tell you. 

Mr. Weitz. At what point ? 

Mr. Nelsox. You said this was supposed to have been sometime 
prior to the price support increase ? 

Mr. Weitz. Right. Right, you had already given $10,000 hadn't 
you? 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, I think we had given more than that, hadn't 
w^e? 

Mr. Weitz. Well I'm asking you. 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, you've got the record and I don't, here, Mr. 
Weitz. I haven't had access to these records in over 2 years — well in 
about 2 yeai'S, you see. 



6565 

Mr. Weitz. But you have had a number of opportunities and this 
really applies to a lot of the questions we're ^oincr over now, you've 
had opportunity in the last month or 2 — which is often helpful — to be 
questioned a number of times about these matters and oftentimes that 
permits someone to reconstruct and recall things that without ques- 
ioning you would not normally recall. 

Mv. Nelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Now my question is, "When yon say that you gave, are 
you talking first of all about TAPE, or all of the co-ops? 

Mr. Nei.sox. I'm talking about all of them. 

yir. Wettz. All of them. Now can you tell us what your best recol- 
lection is as to when this was, so we can determine wdiether or not you 
had given, to determine when this document — when you wrote these 
words ? 

Ml-. Neesox. I told you that T don't know when T wrote them. You 
liave said that it Avas sometime on some document in connection wath 
the price support increase. 

Mr. Weitz. Wasn't this the day after the meeting with the Presi- 
dent, or the day of the meeting with the President on the 23d ? 

jVIi-. Nelsox. I don't know, 

Mr. Weitz. Was it one of those 2 days? 

Mr. Neesox. I don't know. You see I don't know what document 
that was on. 

Mr. Weitz. Would that clear it up for you if you were able to 
determine ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I don't know that it would because I just don't remem- 
ber the thing. 

Mr. Weitz. Ivct's go off the record for a minute. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

^Ir, AVeitz. Back on the record. 

Now in your deposition which we referred to previously, it appears 
that on the bottom of page 49, you were asked about whether you 
recall when or under what circumstances you wrote this document, 
and you say : "No, T don't, but I said that I assume that since it was on 
that document which was the sort of document that was used in 
presenting our case for price support, that it was done in the meeting 
with the Pi-esident because Secretary Schultz was there, and I never 
had any meetings with Secrotai'y Shultz that I recall mj^self. And so 
I assume it was there because his name was there. I assume that that 
is the name, Shultz." 

Now does that refresh your recollection as to the type of document 
we are talking about and the time period which you would have writ- 
ten this document, whether or not it was specifically at the meeting 
with the President? 

Mv. Neesox. You know T had forgotten it. I still don't rememl:)er 
what the document was, but when they showed me that, it was on the 
back of some document. The thought — and this is just conjecture — but 
the "didn't give" pai't, connotes presently to me that what I was react- 
ing to was the thought that Shultz was not "giving" insofar as chang- 



6566 

ing his position in tlio matters concerned. I tliink that that is 
really 

IMr. "Weitz. But you didn't write "Shiiltz didn't give." This follows 
the phrase : "Pres. we were tlie most aggressive political organization 
in agriculture'' but nonetlieloss that is the connotation you place on 
it? 

]\Ir. Nei^sox. Yes, let me say why. 

Mr. "Weitz. That's the best of your recollection ? 

Mr. Nelson. Why I placed that on it ])resently, in thinking about 
it, in that meeting that we had with the President, I'm talking about 
the meeting where the people are listed in the letter, we had a con- 
siderably longer — as I recall they told us we could be in there 20 
minutes and I may be wrong about the time, but it seems to me we 
were in there about 45 minutes at least — and the reason we wanted the 
meeting was that based on past experience, the Council of Economic 
Advisere resists, regardless of how many papers you submit sup- 
porting your position, the Council of Economic Advisers has access 
to the President, so they get in and make a refutation of your position, 
and you are not there to make a refutation of theirs. 

So what we were seeking, when we had this meeting, was more or 
less a confrontation that would enable all of the contingents to be 
heard by the President. One of the things that was said to him was — 
every daiiy farmer in the country pays income tax and most of them 
are not in high income, but you can assume that at least 20 percent — 
that they are going to pay 20-percent tax and that the Government — 
that inasmuch as the price su]:>]:)ort — not permitting that, that con- 
tinuing the price support at the percentage level of the vear pi'evious, 
would have an etfect of keeping the price on all milk, not just on 
manufactured milk, at a higher level than it would otherwise be. Ajid 
that this would effect all milk income by all dairy farmers in the 
country, whether they produced manufactured milk that was in fact 
purchased by the Government, or not. Therefore, the Government 
would get back more in tax dollars than the support jirogram would 
cost them. 

This diffei'ence in the suj^port program that we were contending, 
and those would have had it lowei-, and they didn't think that this 
had ever been presented to him and he said, right there. "That has 
never been explained to me that way.'' And he turned right around to 
his people who were in l)ack of him and as I recall, including Shultz, 
and said : "has it, to you — " and I have said lepeatedly that that is 
the point that I think that he considered to l)e cogent, that hadn't 
been brought to his attention. 

Mr. Weitz. Rased 07i that, you are saying that, based on that argu- 
ment, that he instructed the Secretary to change the decision? 

Mr. Nelson. I am saying that T think that is the cogent ai'gument. 

Mr. Weitz. The cogent argument ? 

Mr. Nelson. I think that is the point that api^ealed to him. 

Mr. Weitz. Not feed costs? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, I sui^pose feed costs, I'm sure that that had been 
presented to him as one of our contingents. 



6567 

Mr. "Weitz. And that liad been pi'esentod to the Socretarv of Aori- 
cultiire before tlie firet decision ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Oh, yes, the Secretary of Airi'iculture always knows 
about feed costs. As a matter of fact, lie lias all the fi<riires, but I will 
say this about feed costs. Feed costs, in the lon<>: — if you draw a o-i-a])h 
of feed costs from that point to this point, you will see, there has been 
some temporary alienations downward, but the feed cost has con- 
tinued to spiral, it is now at an all time hioh. 

Mr. Weitz. You are aware that the second price suppoit announce- 
ment by the Secretary of Afrriculture, did not refer to incomes and 
taxes, hnt only to feed costs ? 

^fi'. Xelsox. T am aware of that, yes. 

^Ir. "Weitz. Tn your opinion, is that the only reason the Secretary 
of Aofriculture chano-ed the price supjiorts^ 

Mr. Xelsox. I will tell you frankly 1 think thev changed it be- 
cause they realized they had made a mistake in the fiist place. Xow I 
know that other thinofs have been said 

]\[r. Weitz. So it had nothino^ to do with taxes and farmer income? 

INIr. Xelsox. X^o, I think that was also — I think as far as the Presi- 
dent was concerned, <i-ettin<i his attention, just from observinir his 
demeanor at the meetina", I think that is the thina- that c'ot his atten- 
tion because he reacted specifjcally, the minute I said it. When you fi'ct 
the tapes, you'll hear that that's in there. 

I have been wantin<2: them to ^'ct these ta|)cs. 

]\rr. Weitz. Do you I'ecall ^U\ Jacobsen tellino- you. sometime the 
same day of the meetinjj; with the President, of his contact with ^Iv. 
Connally that day ? 

INIr. Xelsox. Of his contact witli ^fr. Coimally the sam(> day of the 
meeting? 

]\rr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo, I don't. T didn't recall that ^Nfr. Jacobsen was actu- 
allv up there that day. 

jMr. Weitz. Do you recall what ^Nlr. Jacobsen told you around that 
time, or around the time of the 28d. with respect to contacts he was 
havinrr. or had had, with Mr. Comially ? 

]\rr. Xelsox. ^Nfr. Jacobsen rei)orted to me that Secretary Connally 
understood the ])i-oblem, which T knew that he would because of his 
background. He is from a county where daii'vino- is iin})ortant. Tie was 
reared on a faruL I didn't think we would have any problem with 
him insofar as understandino- the iiroblem and he rejiorted to me that 
Secretary Connally understood the ])roblem and was o-oino- to see 
what he could do about it. 

]\rr. Weitz. Did you talk to ^Iv. Campbell that day, T^ndei- Secretary 
Campbell ( 

]Mr. Xelsox. He was there, he was at the meetin<r with the Pi'esident. 

INIr. Weitz. Did you speak to him, a])art fi-om Jiis presence at the 
meetinir ? 

]\rr. Xelsox. I don't believe T did. T spoke to him at the meetin<r. 
Secretary Campbell, as T recall, when the meetina* bi'oke up, I walked 
around the table and as I recall, I believe this is rio;ht, had a vshort 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 13 



6568 

conversation with liim and lie expressed concern over — said liis only 
concern, as I recall and this may be wrono- but as T recall, his only con- 
cern was that we mi^ht stimulate overi)roductioii and 1 told liim tliat 
I didn't share that concern at all. 

Mr. Weitz. I want to show you a document I'll Jiiark as exhibit fi 
which I would like you to identify. Does this look lik'c a co))y of your 
phono call records for the day of — part of the day of — Marcli 2o, 
1971? 

[Whereupon, the document referred to was markiMl Nelson exhibit 
No. G for identification.*] 

Mr. Nfxson". Yes, this is the sort of records they kept. 

Mr. "Wkitz. Do you recognize the handwriting? Was that kept liy 
your secretary, or by the receptionist at AMPI ? 

Mr. Xei.son. The only phone record I am aware of was ke])t by the 
secretar-y, and she didn't keep these on a continuina', well, like, see — 
she did, here are her initials right here, that's Jane Wright. 

Mr. Weitz. That's your secretary? 

Mr. Neeson. Yes. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Now on that it is indicated that you i ecei\od a telej-jhone 
call from Phil Campbell, who left a message for you to call him at 
home in Virginia. Did you talk to him that day. or did you talk to 
him the next day ? 

Mr. Neesox. Well isn't this the day we had the meeting \\ ith the 
President ? 

]\rr. Wettz. March 23, 1971, yes. 

Mr. Nelson. Well T was thinking that I stayed in Washington. 

Mr. Wettz. Well, let's say you were staying in Wa^liington, did Mr. 
Campbell know where you were staying? Did you tell him you were 
staying at the Madison Hotel ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No, no, no — well, he could have known, I don't recall. 

Mr. Wf:.ttz. So if he wanted to reach you, the onlv number he had 
would have been your number at AMPI in San Ant(^nio. right ? 

Mr. Nees(^n. Right. 

Mr. Weitz. So if he wanted to reach you he could rail, leave a mes- 
sacre, and you could return his call ? 

Mr. Neesox. That's right. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall gettinof that message, either that day or 
the next day, and returning that call ? 

Mr. Neesox. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk to Mr. Campbell between the time of the 
meeting with the President and the time of the milk price-suj)port 
increase? 

Mr. Neesox. Well the only conversation I really iimmII with him was 
right at that time. It was just right after the meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate whether or not he belie\(Ml the increase 
would be granted ? 

Mr. Neesox. Well, as I say, he said that — he didn't speak up, par- 
ticularly, I think maybe he did si)eak u]) at one ])oint, and raised the 

♦See p. 6710. 



6569 

question of — and not vio:oroiisly — but the possibilitv of stimnlating 
overproduction. And then after tlie meeting broke up, I walked around 
the tabk^ and we stood there and talked a moment and he said, you 
understand my concern, and so forth. 

Mr. "Weitz.' Did Mr. Campbell call you to tell you that the price 
supports were <roino: to be increased ? 

Mr. Xelson. No, he didn't. 

Mr. Weitz. AAHien was the first time you learned of that ? 

Mr. Xelsox. The first time I learned of it was about 11 o'clock that 
morninfj. 

Mr. AVeitz. AMiich morning:? 

Mr. Nelson. That thev put out tlie announcement, whatever, 
11:80 

Mr. "Weitz. The 25th? That was the first time you learned it? The 
public announcement ? 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. 

Mr. "Weitz. "When was the first time j'ou learned that it looked as 
if the administration was going to increase the price supports ? 

Mr. Nelsox. "Well, that evening at- — I can't remember what the name 
of the function was — it was one of those political dinner things 

Mr. "Weitz. "What evening is this ? 

Mr. Nfxsox. "Well, it was right close to this time. 

Mr. "Weitz. The 23d. or the 24th ? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall. 

Mr. "Weitz. After the meeting with the President, but before the 
decision was publicly announced on the 25th ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Who told you that ? 

Mr. Nelson. "Well, Page Belcher was saying that all over that meet- 
ing — but nobody had told me then. Page Belcher was telling our mem- 
bers this, telling the dairy farmers that. Two or three of them came up 
to me 

Mr. "Weitz. That the levels were going to be increased? 

Mr. Nelson. That there was going to be an increase, but I have had 
that sort of tiling ha])pen before. I don't mean specifically that, but 
somebody saying — well, some action is going to be taken. So I kept 
telling these people not to be sure, you see, not to be sure about that. 

Mr. "Weitz. "When did you receive — or did you receive, any other 
information tliat evening? 

Mr. Nelson. That the ]:)rice support was going to be increased? 

Mr. Weitz. Or it looked like it was likely to be increased. 

Mr. Nelson. I received information that it was, that it looked fa- 
vorable, but that we — that there wasn't anything absolutely sure 
about it. 

:\rr. "Weitz. ^Mio told you that? 

INTr. Nelson, ^furrav Chotiner. 

Arr. "Weitz. AAlio told him ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't know who told him. 

]\rr. "Weitz. "Who Avas present M'hen he told you that ? 



6570 

Mr. Nelson. I don't believe anybody else was present. We were 
sittino; in the lobby, as I recall, we were sittino; in the lobby of the 
Madison Hotel. 

Mr. Weitz. Waitino; to see Mv. Kalnibach ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate how he found that out ? 

Mr. Nei,son. No. I jnst assumed — yon know, I assnnunl tliat he had 
found it out from him — the President or somebody ^ery close to the 
President. 

Mr. WErrz. Did he say he talked to Mr. Ehrlicinnnn ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know that he had talked to ^h\ Ehrlicliman 
that eyening? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I didn't. I didn't know that uiiv of those people 
nobody that I ever talked to at any time, ever talked to me in terms of 
Ehrlichman or ITaldeman. It was always Colson. 

INIr. Wp:itz. Did he indicate that he had found tliat out from JNIr. 
Colson? 

Mr. Nelson. No. He didn't. 

INIr. Weitz. But it was clear that someone in the administration who 
would know, had told him ? 

Mr. Nelson. That it looked favorable. That's tlio way he put it to 
me, and he also 

Mr. Weitz-. He wasn't speculatina? He based it on somothino- tliat 
someone in the administration had told him ? 

Mv. Nelson. He wasn't ffuessinjr, but he also admonished mi' not to 
count on it until it was absolutely done, that it could not happen. 

Mv. Weitz. And he also admonished you not to tell anyone yet? 

Mv. Nei>son. Yes. 

Mv. Weitz. How did you come to be sittino; \yith Mv. Chotiner in the 
lobby of the INIadison Hotel ? 

Mr. Nelson. He called, and T cannot tell you when : either he— I do 
not want to say he called. It mi^rht have been Mr. Harrison, Tt was 
either Mr, Harrison or Mr. Chotiner called me. and aslced me to meet 
them there, because INIr. Kalmbach was }i"oin<j: to be thoiv. 

Mr. Weitz. You say he called you. Did you attend the dinner that 
evening? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And did Mr, Chotiner attend that dinner? 

Mr, Nelson. I have been told that Mr. Chotiner did attend the 
dinner. I do not remember him being at the dinner. 

INIr. Weitz. Did Mr. Harrison attend the dinner? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, as I recall, he did. 

Mv. Weitz. And how soon after the dimier did you meet with INIr. 
Chotiner in the lobby of the Madison Hotel ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, T would say right after the dinner. 

Mr. Weitz. So did he call you, or did he in fact not tell you at the 
end at the dinner to meet him in the lobby of the INIadison Hotel ? 

INIr. Nelson. I think it was before. T think it was e\('n before we ever 
went to the dinner, that he either called me or Mv. Harrison told me. 



6571 

I do not really remember what time. I do jiot remember talldiifr to him 
at all at the dinner. T do not even remember 

^[r. Wkitz. :Mr. Chotiner? 

]\rr. Xklsox. Yes. 

]Mr. Wi:rrz. Xow, up to that time, you had been in contact primarily 
with Mr. Harrison with res]iect to ineetinos and so forth for the milk 
price support increase ? 

Mr. Xklson. Yes, 

Mr. Wkitz. Had you been in contact with jNIr. Chotiner before that, 
after he left the White House and until this time? 

Mr. Xelsox. You see, that is the point ; when did he leave the "White 
House ? 

Mr. Wefi-z. T believe he left api)roximately March 5. 1071. 

Mr. Nelson. March 5, 1971. 

Mr. WErrz. Let me put it this way : do you recall tallcino- to or in any 
way dealino; with ]Mr. Chotiner with respect to his representation of 
you to p;ain a milk ])rice support increase after he left the "^"Sniite House 
and before the evenin<j of the dinner ? 

]Mr. Xeesox. I cannot o-ivc you the date, l)ut we had a conversation 
over in the office of Mr. — the law firm. 

Mr. "Weefz. Was Mr. Harrison present? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Ho you recall any instances in which— before the eve- 
ninfr of the dinner or ri<>-ht after the dinner and since the. time Mr. 
Chotiner left the White House that you talked to Mr. Chotiner about 
the milk question without Mr. Harrison beinof present? 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not believe so. I do not believe — I do not believe 
we did. 

Mr. WErrz. Xow, did either Mr. Harrison or Mr. Chotiner. who- 
ever told you to meet ]Mr. ClK)tiner in the lobby, tell you why you were 
to meet with him, and ultimately ^Nlr. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Xelsox. It seems, and I could be wron"; about this. It seems to 
me we were ^"oino: to meet with INIr. Kalmbach to ^et that Mr. Chotiner 
was o:oin<r to p^t ]Mr. Kalmbach to produce the committees. 

Mr. Weitz. These are the same committees you had asked for the 
year l:)efore ? 

]\rr. Xelsox. It is a contimiino- thinii;. 

Ml'. Weitz. Why was Mr. Chotiner o-oinpf to intervene at this point ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, I <2:uess because he thoup:ht he could ^rpt the job 
done, and no one else had succeeded up to that point in really o-ettmg 
it done. 

]Mr, Weitz. And he was to meet with you and Mr. Kalmbach to make 
sure that ]\Ir. Kalmbach obtained the committees, produced the com- 
mittee for you ? 

Mr. Xelsox. That is my recollection of it. 

Mr. Weitz. Was ]\Ir. Colson in any way mentioned with respect to 
this, or the administration in o-eneral ? 

^Ir. Xelsox. Xo. He was going to fret jMr. Kalmbach. We were to 
meet ]Mr. Kalmbach. 



6572 

Mr. Weitz. Was there any reason give that — wliat time did the 
dinner end, approximately ? 

Mv. Np:lson. I do not know. I would say 10 o'clock. 

]Mr. Weitz. When did you meet witli ]\Ir. Kalmbach ? 

]Mr. Nelson. AYell, it \yas very late wlien we met with Mi. Kalm- 
bach. We sat and sat and sat down there, and no INIr. Kalmbach, and 
Mr. Chotiner went over to the phone repeatedly and called, and just 
to be very candid about it, he became pretty exercised. He was kind of 
embarrassed to think that here he was going to produce this man, and 
there was no man, you see. 

And I cannot remember, you see, I really cannot remember what 
the deal was, but it was quite late. It was way after midnight, and we 
were still sitting there, and Chotiner is just getting ready to leave, you 
know. And I do not know what the mixup was. 

It turns out that Kalmbach has been in the hotel all the time, and 
Kalmbach was asleep. He was in bed asleep up there. And for some 
reason, there was some mixup, I do not know what 

Mr. Weffz. You had the wrong number or sometlnng? 

Mr. Nelsox. Something like that. I do not remember. 

Anyway, Kalmbach — really, there was no point to being mad at 
Kalmbach for not having shown, because he was in liis room all of the 
time. 

INIr. Weitz. Did you wake him, and did you meet with him ulti- 
mately ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, we went upstairs. 

Mr. Weitz. Why did you decide to? Why did you and Mr. Chotiner 
decide to meet with him if he already was in bed and asleep and so 
forth, and it was way past 12 o'clock? 

Mr. Nelson. You know, I do not really recall why. If I could talk 
to Mr. Chotiner and find out, I would be glad to tell you. I just do not 
recall right at the moment why that was, but he was in his pajanuis. 

Mr. Weitz. Did INIr. Kalmbach, fi'om the conversation on the phone 
and then ultimately in the meeting in his room, indicate that he under- 
stood or knew ahead of time that you and ^Nlr. Chotiner had come to 
meet with him? 

]\Ir. Nelson. Y^es. 

INIr. Weitz. Was he expecting your visit ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, he was apologetic over the mixup. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall what the pui-pose of the meeting was? 

Mr. Nelson. No, it seemed to me that it was to get the committees, 
that he was going to see that we got committees. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you have any contributions to make that evening, 
or any checks to deliver? 

]Mi-. Nelson. I am not certain about that. I do not want to say that 
I did, because I want to check and see. I do not really rec^all that I did. 
I would have to check and see whether or not I did do that, because 
I do not know. 

I do not want to say that T did imless I check on it and find out 
that I actually had some checks, but Kalmbach was expecting us. That 
was obvious. There was not any question. 



6573 

Mr. Wkitz. What liappeiUMi whon you arrivod in his room? 

Mr. Nelson. T would say we were not in tliere 10 minutes. 

Mr. WKrrz. And what w'as said, if you can follow alonu: as closely as 
YOU recall i 

Mr. Nelsox. You see. 1 had for<rotten all a.hout this thin^i' untd 
they started pressing me about wliat did you— actually, they were 
askino- lue. did T leave there and go to a meeting and so forth. T said, 
no, 1 did not leave and go to any meeting and so forth. 

Then T ran it through and l" said, what I did was met Murray 
Chotiner downstairs in the hotel lobby. So I cannot tell you exactly 
what went on in that room when we got u]) there. Tt Avas — my recollec- 
tion of it is that he put it on him about getting names of the com- 
mittees, and he said he Avould. 

:\Ir. Weitz. Mr. ('hotiner to Mr. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

]Mr. Weitz. Was ]Mr. Harrison mentioned at all or INIr. Hillings? 

Mr. Nelsox. In that, no. not that I recall. They were not there. 

Mr. Weitz. And there was no leference to them? 

]\[r. Nelsox. Not that T recall, no. 

Mr. "Weitz. What did Mr. Kalmbach say? 

Mr. Nelsox. AVell, ^h\ Kalmbach had just been awakened, and he is 
not a ver}' verbose guy to start with, and he did not have a whole lot 
to say. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, you had made this lequest before to him a num- 
ber of times? 

Ml'. Nelsox. Yes, sir. I sure had. 

]\[r. Weitz. Did he appear ii'ritated, or did he wondei- why he had 
to be awakened at after 12 o'clock that night to be told of a request 
that had been made to him once before? 

Mr. Nelsox-^. He had already been told on the ]:)hone when Chotiner 
got him downstairs, you know, he was exorcised about the fact that 
we had been waiting. Well Kalmbach obviously had been thei-e all the 
time, so he was not remiss in any way. 

]\rr. WErrz. Why were you present ? Why did you have to be pi-esent 
for this if Mr. Chotiner was brought in to see what he could do about 
obtaining committees ? 

Why did you not just call Mr. Kalmbach directly? 

]Mr. Nelsox\ W^ell, I do not know^ why. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you say anytliing during the meeting? 

Mr. Nelsox. Oh, I am sure t did. 

I\rr. Weitz. Do you recall what you said, or the substance of what 
you said? 

~Mv. Nelsox'. Well, T am sure the substance of what T said was to 
agree to whatever ari-angement they made between themselves as to 
how we would make payments. 

Mr. Weitz. Was tliere any reference to governmental policies or 
rej^resentation of AMPI in governmental action? 

Mr. Nelsox. You mean by Kalmbach? 

Mr. Weitz. By Chotiner, Kalmbach or anyone else. 

Mr. Nelsox*. Well, T am not following youi- question. 



6574 

INIr. Wkitz. "Well, all ri^ht. Let me ^o at it this Avay. 

Is there anything else that was said with respect to contributions 
or committees? 

]Mr. Nelsox. Not that T recall. 

Mr. Weitz. "Was anything else said at the meeting? 

Mr. Nelsox. Contributions was all that was discussed, as far as I 
remember. 

Mr. Weitz. And then you left Mi". Kalmbaclrs room? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, sir; but then T camiot lemember a specific time, 
but it seems to me it was about 2:30 or -3 o'clock; by then, it was very 
late, I will tell you. I will put it that way. 

Mr. "Weffz. Whei-e did ^Nfi-. Chotinei- go aftei- the meeting? 

Mr. Nelsox'. Whei-e did he go? T do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. He left the iiotel? He left your presence? 

Mr. Nelsox. "We went- — yes. As I recall, we ^^■ent back down to the 
lobby, and he snid, good night and left. 

JNIr. "Weitz. "Wliere did you go ? 

Mr. Nelsox-^. I went back upstairs. 

INIr. Weitz. To your room ? 

]Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

INIi'. Weitz. Your suite ? 

INIr. Nelson. Yes. 

ISIr. Weitz. Did you share a room, a suite at that time with ISIr. 
Parr? 

Mr. Nelsox\ Yes. I say Mr. Parr; it was probably Mr. Parr. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall whether he was there that evening? 

Mr. Nelsox\ jNIr. Parr was there, and there were others there as I 
recall. 

Mv. Weitz. In your suite ? 

]Mr. Nelsox". Not spending the night, but I mean in the — you know. 

Mr. Weitz. But in your suite. Did you stoj:) by and see Mr. Parr that 
evening after the meeting with INIr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, ]\Ir. Parr would be in the 

Mr. Weitz. Did you see anyone after the meeting, any AMPI 
people ? 

INIr. Nelsox\ I do not recall whether they were still up or not. You 
have got to understand this, in all probability they were. Any time 
we traveled with IMr. Parr, you stood a good chance of being kept up 
a big share of the night. 

Mv. Weitz. He goes to bed late and you go to bed early. Is that not 
right? 

Mr. Nelsox. That is right. I get up early, and he gets up late. 

INIr. Weitz. Was he awake when you went back to your suite? 

Mv. Nelsox. Well, I do not remember. 

INIr. Weitz. Did you talk with him that evening, do you recall, or 
early that morning? 

Mr. Nelson. I would say the probability — oh, I am sure that I did, 
either one or the other. 

Mr. Weitz. Not the next morning, but after the meeting, late at 
night or early in the morning, however you want to characterize it? 



6575 

Mr. Nelsox. I just do not recall. The probabilities are that Mr. Parr 
was not only thei-e, but lie would have somebody else, one or more 
people around any time he could <^ot them to talk to him; he would 
liave them there. I M'ill o-uarantee you. 

]\rr. Wrrrz. Did you communicate to anyone the fact that you had 
attended this meetino-? 

]\rr. Xelsox. With Kalmbach and Cliotiner? 

]\rr. Wr.iTz. Kalmbach and Chotiner? 

]\ri-. Xelsox. I do not believe I did. If I did, I do not recall it. 

]Mr. Sanders. T^t me <2:o off the record a minute. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

r.V brief recess was taken.] 

^Iv. TTA:\riLTox. We want to ask you some questions concernino- the 
relationslii}) of A^NIPT and Valentine, Sherman, and I think that the 
best way to start off initially. T think, is just let you tell us in your 
own words the nature of this relationship. And I tliink if I just might 
structui-e wliat you are g-oino- to say a little bit, I would like to know — 
T would like for you to start Avith the initial contact, by whom it was 
made, who put you in touch witli tliem. the types of business relation- 
sliips you worked out. what services were purchased from AMPT. how 
tliey were ])aid — I mean from Valentine. Slierman— how Valentine, 
Slierman was paid, etc. 

And I think — T do think it would be Ijetter if you would just tell us 
tliat in your own words. 

Mr. Xei.sox. All rioflit. Let me ask vou this. T cannot give you the 
(late. 

Do you know tlie date, if you can give me 

]\rr. ITA:\rii/rox. Which date are you talking about? 

^Iv. Xelsox. Well, the date of a meeting in ^Nliniieapolis. and there 
was some sort of a political function up there conceining Hubert 
Humphrey. 

Ml-. HA^riLTox. Well, T think the fundraising you are probably talk- 
ing about was in the summer of 1071 ; if that is at Humphrey's home? 

^Iv. Xet,sox. Xo. When you — when you are talking about 
Humphrev's home, are vou talkiiia- about his home — what is the name 
of 

^Iv. H.\:\riLTox. Waverley. 

^Ir. Xelsox. I have been asked this before, and T do not believe — 
as a matter of fact. I am certain that T have never been to Senator 
Humphrey's home at Waverley, IVIinn. 

I am talking about a meeting in a hotel close to the airport in 
]\fiiineai)()lis. 

]\rr. Ha:mietox. Xow that, T believe, was in the early winter of 1971. 

]\rr. Xei.sox. All right. 

]\rr. Hamiltox. But again, I want to let you do this in your own 
words. 

^Iv. Xelsox. Yes. 

.Nfr. Hamiltox. But T would think it is getting ahead of yourself a 
little bit, is it not, because you had — my understanding is that AMPI 
and Valentine. Sherman had relationships before that time. 



6576 

ISIr. Nelsox, Well, I do not — before the winter of 1971 ? 

Mv. Hamilton. Yes. 

jNIr. Nelsox. "Well, lot me tell you what my recollection is, and then 
we are ftoing to have to — because I do not recall any before this time. 

Mr. Hamilton. All right. Go ahead. 

Mr. Nelson. Tlie way I recall it is that there was a mooting' of some 
kind for Senator Humphrey in tliis motel. 

Mr. Sanders. The Kadison South? 

Ml'. Nelson. Is that close to the airport? Radison is a hotel in down- 
town. It was not downtown; it was out in tlio airport in a big, new 
motol complex there. And Mr. Parr introduced mo to — I do not know 
whicli is whic'li; one of them is sliort and stocky, and tliat is the one 
that I met of Valentino, Sherman. 

And tlio proposition was this, that Valentino. Sherman wore per- 
forming — had tlie capability of doing all of this computerizing, for 
want of a better term, of farm numbois in given locations and so forth ; 
and that this would be useful to AINIPI in its meml>ership drives. And 
they also 

]Mi". Hamiltox'. I am sori-y. T believe you wore 

Mr. Gallman. You were in the motel. 

Mr. Nelson. AVe were in the motol, and the idea was that Valentino, 
Sherman would perform services of computerizing faim population, 
farmers numbers by counties and so forth; that would bo useful to 
AMPI in its membership drives, and would also be useful — would 
reduce the cost that would be involved in doing computoi- work in 
connection with the Humphrey cam])aign. 

And that they would bill AMPI for these services and furnish 
tapes, or discs or something — I do not recall the details of that, of 
these fai-m population numbers. And that is what was done, and they 
did bill us, and they were paid by us. I know that is an over — but that 
is — and you say that is ahead of myself, that there was a relationship 
other than that. I do not recall that. 

Ml'. Hamiltox. "Well, now, what you just said is that the first time 
that this arrangement was worked up was in December of 1971. 

]Mr. Nelsox. No, I say whenever that mooting was, that political 
meeting, and I cannot place the date for you. 

Mr. Hamiltox. Well, we have hoard from otlior individuals that 
it was in December of 1971, in the early winter, maybe early Decem- 
ber, but we do have some documentation in the files that places the 
start of this thing a good bit earlier, and documentation that was sent 
to you. 

Now, let me just — T think this is probabl_y the best way. 

Mr. Nelsox. When Avas this mooting that you were talking about at 
Senator Humphrey's home ? 

Mr. Hamiltox. Well, there was a meeting at Humphrey's home, 
a fund raiser, that was in the summer of 1971. 

Mr. Nelson. Well, that was not the mooting — that was not the meet- 
ing where I met Valentine, Sherman, because I was not at that 
meeting. 



6577 

]\rr. Hamilton'. Well, just to oot us started then. Mr. Nelson, maybe 
work backward in time' a little bit. I.et me show you this contract 
between AMPI and VaUmtine, Sherman. 

You will note on the second ])a<ie that it was signed by you and Mr. 
Valentine, and the date on it is June 10, 1971. And there is a coyer 
letter to you from Mr. Valentine, whicli is dated August 2, 11)71, which 
of course indicates that the contract, since this is for the contract, 
indicates that the contract was backdated. 

Now. does that refresh your recollection somewhat? 

Mr. Nelsox. It seems to me, if I can recall, that this is pursuant 
to the meetin<T I am talkino; about, whenever it was, in Minneapolis. 

]Mr. IlArMiLTOx. Well. 1 want to just make sure that we are talk- 
infr about the same meeting. Mr. Nelson — I mean I think you said that 
tho meetinir was 

jNIr. Nelson. It had somethino- to do with Senator Humphrey. 

]Mi-. Hamilton. Well, we have indications that the meeting- that I 
think you ai-e talking about, the fundraiser, was in December of 1971 ; 
so that would — this would be prior 

Mr. Nelson. Prior to. but there was bound to have been another 
meeting up there having to do with Senator Humphrey, prior to the 
date of this contract, because that is how I met whichever it was, 
Valentine or Sherman; the short, stocky one of the two w\as at one of 
those meetings. 

As my memory serves me. he actually gave us a ride back to the 
aii'port from the meeting. 

Mr. HA:\nLTON. Well, what is the exact nature of the arrangement 
that you reached at that time ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, just as I told you, that they would bill us for 
preparing these lists, and by perfoiining these services for ns, and 
charging the amount, whatever it was, that they were going to charge 
us. And we understood that they were going to bo able to perform 
sei'vices also for Senator Humphrey at a much lower rate. 

Mr. Hamilton. Nom'. is it your understanding that they would also 
give Senator Humphrey certain lists ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes ; that is right. 

^Ir. IlA:\riLTON. So, as you remember it. they would give you some 
rural route lists, is that correct ? 

]Mr. Nelson. Rural po])ulation lists. 

Mr. Hamilton. Rural population lists, and they would give 
Humphrey what kind of lists '( 

]Mr. Nelson. AVell, lists useful in voter campaigns. There was not 
any explicit understanding about the kind of lists. I assume they were 
going to give him the kind of list that he wanted them to prepare 
for him. 

Mr. Hamilton. And what is your recollection as to how much work 
Valentine, Shei'man did foi- you ? 

Mr. Nelson. ]My recollection is tliat — well, I really do not know. I 
understand that there are some discs — that they furnished these things 
in the form of discs — that are actually out at the AMPI office in San 
Antonio now. 



6578 

I cannot tell you how much work actually went into them. 

Mr. Hamilton. Do you know how much AINIPI paid Valentine, 
Shennan ? 

Mv. Nelson. No. I can ^ivo you — I would say it is over $100,000. I 
cannot jrive 3'ou the exact fi<2:ure. 

INIr. Hamilton. And do you know what States the work was done in? 

Mr. Nelson. No. but the lists were furnished. 

Mr. Haimtlton. Yes. 

My. Nelson. I cannot give you that list, because I do not know. 

Mr. Hamilton. Was it more than one State ? 

INIr. Nelson. It is my mulerstandinp; it was probal)ly five or six States, 
and I could be wrono- about tliat. Mr. T^illy could tell you what States 
thev actually sent discs oil But I do not know. 

INIr. Hamilton. "Well, do you know what material went to 
Humphrey ? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I sure do not. 

Mr. Hamilton. Do vou know if the material was from the same 
States? 

Mr. Nelson. No; T do not know that at all. T would imaofine there 
are some from the same States, and some that was not. 

Mr. Haisiilton. So it was your impression that Humphrey was 
getting lists from other States than those that AMPI was getting, was 
for 

Mv. Nelson. Yes — well, T iust do not know what States, but I would 
just assume that it included States other than the AINIPI list. 

Mr. HA:NriLT0N. Did you jierceive this arrangement as — well, let me 
ask you another question first. Wliat mon(>y was used for paying for 
these lists? 

Mr. Nelson. Corporate — it was AINIPI coi-porate funds. 

Mv. Hamilton. It was corporate money? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mv. Hamilton. And was it your recollection the payment was all in 
one sum, or that it was 

Mr. Nelson. No; my recollection is that the payment was in several 
installments. I can be wrong about that, but I think it Avas over a 
period of months. 

Mr. Hamilton. Were the payments made before you left AINIPI? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall, some were made before and I assume that 
it was continued at least a while after I left AMPI. 

INfr. Ha^iilton. And you left AINIPI in January of 1972? 

INIr. Net,son. Yes, sir. 

INIr. Haimilton. So, do you know how long before that payments 
began to be made ? 

INIr. Nelson. No, I do not. 

Mr. Hamilton. Could you make a guess? 

Mv. Nelson. Well, I can check the date on here, and make a — that 
would be the only way I could. 

INIi-. Hamilton. Well, that is not jroing to help you too much unless 
I lead you thi'ough some of this a little bit, because I have just given 
vou OEie document here. 



6579 

Mv. Nelsox. All rio;ht. 

]\rr. PT.\7»rTT/r()X. "Would von say — T am just ti-yinof to irot your recol- 
lection befoi'e Ave ffo ])rtck throuirh some of these documents. 

Mv. Nf.lsox. All riffht. 

Mr. Hamiltox. AVould vou say that payments started to be made 
about () months before you left ? Would that be fair ? 

Mv. ?s^F.LSox. I would say so, yes. 

Mr. HA:>rTLT0X. So you would place this initial meeting Avith Val- 
entine. Slierman before that? 

Mr. Xr.r.sox. Yes, sir. 

Mv. HAArii/rox. Xoav, avIio Avas in this meetinfr? You and 

:\rr. Xkt.sox. Mv. Parr. 

Mv. TTA:\rTLTOx. And ^fr. Valentine? 

^fr. Xelsox. If he is the stocky one of tlie tAvo. 

Mv. TlA:\riLT()X. ]-5oth of them are short, and Valentine is stockier 
than Sherman. 

^Ir. Xelsox. I Avould just have to tell you T do not know which one. 
It Avas one of the two. 

^fr. HA:\riLTOx. Well. T think. Mv. Xelson, not to overly sha]')e 
Avliat you are tellinp- us, tluit it Avas ^Fr. Valentine that you met Avith. 

^Nfr. Xelsox. All rifjht. 

Mv. TrA:\rrLTOx. In your recollection. Avas this the first time you had 
ever met Mv. Valentine ? 

Mv. Xelsox. I believe so. I do not recall ever haA'ino; metliim. 

Mv. TTA:\nLTox. TToav Avere you jiut in contact Avithhim? 

Mv. X>.LSox. ^Ir. Parr. 

Mv. Hamiltox. Xoav, Iioav did Mr. Parr meet him ? 

Mv. Xelsox. T do not knoAv. T assume throuo;h someone on Senator 
ITumphrey's staff, the reelection committee or somethin":- 

Mr. ITamiltox. Did ^Mi-. Chestnut have anythino:to do Avith this? 

Mv. Xelsox. I do not know : he might have. PTe miijht have been the 
one Avho introduced Sherman and Pan-, but Parr is the one who in- 
trodufed me to Valentine, as I recall. 

Mv. HA?>riLT0x. So basicallv. vou do not know then Iioav Mv. Parr 
met Mv. Valentine? 

Mv. Xelsox. I am sure he told me at the time, but T just do not 
recall. 

Mv. HA:\riLTox. Xoav. did you have any knoAvledce that other politi- 
cal candidates or org-anizations l^esides Senator Humphrey Avere 
ji-etting political lists from Valentine. Sherman that Avere partially 
bein<r financed by the money that A^MPT Avas jiayino-? 

Mv. Xelsox. Xo. 

Mv. HA:\rTLTOx. So it Avas your notion that the only one <rettino: aiiy 
benefit Avas Mv. PTumphrey ? 

^Nlr. Xelsox. Mv. Humphrey and A]\IPT. 

Mv. Hamiltox. Yes. and AMPI. 

Mv. Xelsox. It has been since su<rg"ested to me. and T cannot recall 
Avhether it Avas somebody questionino' me or otherAvise. that there Avere 
some otheis Avho <rot some benefit, but my impression at the time Avas 
it Avas strictly for Humphrey. 



6580 

Mr. Hamtltox. Strictly for Mr. Humphrey. And when did yon 
receive the list from Valentine. Sherman, that yon ordered? Do yon 
know that? 

INIr. Nelsox. No, I do not. 

]\Ir. Hamilton. Do yon know if they came in before yon left? 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not know that either. Mr. Lilly can tell you when 
they came ; he is the one that told me they are there. 

]Mr. Hamilton. Well, what were you ^oinii; to use these lists for? 

Mr. Nelsox. In recruitinfj drives, in areas where we were: member- 
ship drives. 

Mr. Ha:miltox. INIembership drives ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. 

]\rr. HA:\riLTox. Did you have any connnercial schemes that 3'on were 
goin": to use the lists for, any marketing schemes ? 

Mr. Ni:lsox. Not that I am aware of or recall. As I remember it, the 
idea was that we Avould get these lists of these farmers by counties, and 
that we could pinpoint the counties and the numbers in them and so 
foi-th. 

Now, I will be frank with you. It had not occurred to me until you 
just suggested to me about using it in connection with advertising 
drives. Ordinarily, in promoting agricultural products, you do Jiot 
look for farm population to promote them with. 

Mr. Hamiltox. Well, for exam])le, did you have any jilans that 
maybe AMPI would market some life insurance by use of these lists? 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, AMPI did not have a life insurance. 

ISIr. Hamiltox. But was there in AiNIPI some type of — or did AMPI 
have an arrangement with some type of insurance company where you 
had, not a group policy, but a policy that would cover all members of 
AlNfPI or all farmers, where they could get it at reduced rates or some- 
thing like that? 

Were you thinking along those lines ? 

]Mr. Nelsox. Do you want to go off the record just a second ? 

]Mr. Hamiltox. Sure. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

IVIr. Nelsox. To my knowledge, that Avas not the use contemplated. 

Mr. Hamiltox. Did AMPI ever have any type of plan to market 
cheese by use of these lists, cheese products ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, AINIPI marketed cheese among its own members 
but I do not recall any plan to market cheese. 

]Mr. Hamiltox. So as far as you know, the only reason you wanted 
these lists was to use in the recruiting drives ? 

]Mr. Nelsox. That is right. That was the only reason discussed at the 
time. 

Now, somebody subsequently may have decided that they could con- 
ceivably use them in the type of programs you are talking about, but 
that was not the thing that motivated me in making the deal. I am just 
being candid with you. 

Mr. Hamiltox. When you say the only thing being discussed at the 
time, there was this discussion, I take it, about how Senator Humphrey 
could also benefit. 



6581 

INIr. Nelsox. Yes. 

jVIr. Ha:miltox. And for less money he could <iet — — 

]Mr. Nklsox. That is ria-ht; there was that discussion but the discus- 
sion from our point of view was that we could use them in membei'ship. 

]Mr. IlAMii/rox. AVell. how interested were you in tliese lists ? Did you 
really feel you needed them ? 

Mr. Xklsox. The primary motive was to help Senator Humphrey. 

Mr. Hamilton. The primary motive was to lielp Humphrey? 

Mr. Xklsox"^. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Ha:miltox'. Do I take it from that that you really did not plan 
to use these lists? 

]\rr. Xf:Lsox. Xo. We })lanned to use the lists; you know, it is a li'ood 
tiling to know, numbers of farmei'S by counties. 

^[r. Hamiltox. But the ])riniary motive was to help Humphrey? 

JNIr, Nelsox^. Yes. sir. 

]\rr. Hamietox. You say that the conunitment to Humphrey was over 
$100,000. Can you be more specific in that ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Xo. I cannot recall Avhat the amount was. I do not even 
recall the amounts that were paid while 1 was still there. 

Mr. Saxders. Mav T pose a (juestion ? 

Did you frame that question in the sense of saying a conunitment to 
Humphrey of $100,000? 

jNIr. Hamietox. If I did — — 

jNIr. Saxders. I think you did, and I do not think he said that. 

Mr. Hajiiltox. AVell, since we are having an exact transcript, I 
think that is good tliat v;e should correct that, Don. The initial 
commitment of money to AMPI, by AMPI to Valentine, Sherman, 
you say. wa s over $100'.000 ? 

Mr. Xelsox. That is right. 

;Mr. Hamiltox. The question is, do you remember 

Mr. Xelsox^. Xo, I do not rememl)er the specific amount. 

Mr. Ha^iiltox. Would a figure of $140,000 or $137,000 ring a bell ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, that would not be inconsistent with my idea of 
the size of the transaction. 

Mr. HA:\rTET0x. Xow, at this meeting between you and Mr. Parr 
and Mr. Valentine, was there anybody there from the Humphrey 
organization ? 

Mr. Xelsox. As I recall, it was Just Mr. Parr, Mr. Valentine and I. 

Mr, Hamiltox. Well, who in the Humphrey organization was 
aware of this? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, tlie only person that I know of would be Mr. 
Chestnut, because we asked him to pi-epare tlie deal. 

Mr. Hamiltox. Xow, was that of your recollection, or do you say 
that because I just showed you the contract ? 

Mr. Xelsox. That is right. 

Mr. Hamtltox. And you know of no other ])eo])le that — connected 
with Humphrey in any way- — that are interested in this? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo. 

Mr. Hamiltox. Did Mr. Connell have anything to do in arranging 
this deal? 



6582 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Hamilton. How sibout INIr. van Dyk? 

Mr. Nelson. I say no, neither one did insofar as I know, and if 
tlioy did, tliey would have to have done that witli Mr. Pan-. 

Mr. HAi\riLT0N. But you said, 1 believe, that you do not know who 
put ]Mr. Parr in connection with Mr. Valentine or Mr. Sherman? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Hamilton. Let us o-o off the record just a minute. 

[Discussion oft' the record.] 

Mr. Sanders. I would like to develop some details about some 
things you have already told us about. 

Mr. Nelson. All rio-ht. 

Mr. Sanders. First, the matter of your meetino- Valentine in a hotel 
or motel close to the airport. Do you think he may have taken you 
back to the airport? Do you have any recollection that he met you 
at the airport, and drove you to the hotel ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, it seems to me it was tlie other way around. It 
could have been otherwise. He may have done both. 

Mr. Sanders. And your purpose in g'oino- to Minneapolis then was 
not to meet with Valentine ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, there was a meetino- — there was a function of some 
kind for Hubert Humphrey, is my recollection. 

INIr. Sanders. "Was it a dinner ? 

]\Ir. Nelson. I do not remember. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you think that T-*arr was the only other official 
from AMPI to attend tliat function with you ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is my recollection. 

Mr. Sanders. Mio-ht you recall that officials from other area asso- 
ciations were in attendance at this function ? 

Mr. Nelson. You see, I do not remember that much about the func- 
tion itself; except it seems to me that it was a Hum]ihrey function. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you have a recollection of yon or Parr expressing: 
some financial commitment to Humphrey at tliat meetino;? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, and that was not a dinner meetino;; as I recall, 
that was a meeting, as I recall, of about — I could be wi'ono- on this — 
it seems to me just 25 or 30 people. 

Mr. Sanders. Would yon explain to me what you recall about a 
commitment or a declaration ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, goins; around there and talkino- about the 
amount of funds that could be raised in the event — T hope I am not 
wrone; about this. This is to the best of my recollection. This was a 
meetinp; in which the discussion was the amount of money that could 
be raised in the event Senatoi- Humphrey decided to run. That is the 
way I recall it. 

Mr. Sanders. Was the Senator present ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, my recollection is that he was present. 

jNIr. Sanders. Do you have a recollection of Chestnut being- there? 

j\Ir. Nelson. I think Chestnut was there, too. 

Mr. Sanders. How long have you known Chestnut ? 



6583 

Mr. Nelson. I do not roally — I would say he is an acquaintance. 
I do not really know liini. 1 met liiin on four or five occasions at meet- 
ings such as this, and that sort of thino^. 

Mv. Saxdkks. Do you have a personal ac(i[uaintancesliip with 
Senator ITumplirey ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, T know him better than I know Chestnut. I will 
not say I am close to Senator Humphrey. I will say this; I have been 
an admirer of Senator Hunii)hrey ever since I was in junior high 
school. 

Mr. Saxdkks. Before going to the meeting, did you and Parr dis- 
cuss a sum which might be declared at the meeting? 

Mv. Nelsox. No. Actually, when we went to the meeting, we were 
not — as I recall — we were not aware that there was going to be any 
declarations. That is the sort of thing that Parr calls "i)unt meetings," 
punt meetings or something like that, l)ut it developed that that w^as 
the kind of meeting it was. 

Mr. Saxders. How much did you declare that could be raised for 
Senator Plumphrey? 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not recall, but it was a substantial amount. 

Mr. Saxders. Would the sum of $50,000 refresh your recollection? 

Mr. Nelsox^. I would say it was at least that much. 

]Mr. Sanders. Now would it have been your thought and under- 
standing that that meant $50,000 from TAPE ? 

Mr. Nelsox'. Well, in the terms of our thinking, that means $50,000 
from TAPE or ADl^^PT or SPACE, or whoever we could get it from, 
to identify it with dairy farmers. 

Mr. Sax^ders. Did you have any thought that corporate funds would 
be included to make up that money ? 

Mr. Nelsox'. I don't recall that we did, but I wouldn't say that we 
didn't, either. 

ISfr. Saxders. Now, this was in latter 1971 ; to your knowledge, 
did 

Mr. Hamilton'. Don, if I may say, I don't believe that he has said it's 
latter 1971, he doesn't remember the time. 

Mr. Sanders. Well, actually I had in mind that whether it was sum- 
mer or December, it would be the latter part of 1971. 

Mr. Hamiltox'. INIay I suggest a question? INlay I ask a question? 

Mr. Sax'ders. Yes. 

Mr. Hamtltox'. Do you remember wdiat the weather was ? 

]\Ir. Nelsox'. No. T sure don't. It seems to me that it was— I just don't 
remember what the w eather was. 

Mr. Sanders. I presume your travel records would reflect — your 
expense accounts might reflect travel to Minneapolis for 1971? 

INIr. Nelsox-^. Yes, they would reflect it only if I stayed there. If I 
didn't stay there, there w'ouldn't be anything to indicate Minneapolis 
on expense records. 

^[r. Saxders. In other words, it would show air travel, but it 
wouldn't show the destination, is that what you're saying ? 

Mr. Nelson^. No, no, wdiat I'm thinking is that I probably w^ent there 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 14 



6584 

in a private airplane, so the airplane lo^; would show, but there 
wouldn't be anythinu- on the expense records that would show. 

]Mr. Sandeus. All right, so if we had the logs to the AMPI 
aircraft 

INIr. Nelsox. It would show whether it Avent there. 

Mv. Sanders. I think we have some of those, I don't know if we've 
gotten them for all of that period, but I think we ought to search it. 

Do you have a recollection that prior to this declaration at this meet- 
ing, that any A]MPI or TAPE funds had been made availal)le to Sena- 
tor Humphrey that year, for his coming Presidential race, or in the 
previous year ? 

Mr. Nelsox. "What date are we talking about here ? 

Mr. Sanders. We're talking some time, about the last half of 1071. 

Mr. Nelson. I don't believe any had, in that period. 

Mr. Sanders. You think that in the prior year oi- two, you hadn't 
yet made any funds available to Senator Ilumphrey in anticipation of 
his Presidential race? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe that's right. 

Mr. Sanders. This would have been the first time that you had to 
face up to that ])ros])ect of him running ? 

IMr. Nelson. I think that's right. 

Mr. Sanders. And it would have been under Parr's auspices that 
you attended this function? 

INIr. Nelson. Yes. 

INIr. Sanders. And under Parr's auspices that you met with Valen- 
tine on the occasion of your visit to JMinneapolis ? 

My. Nelson. That's right. 

Now, when you say, "under Parr's auspices" 

Mr. Sanders. I mean under his arrangement. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. "Auspices" was a word that was kind of bugging 
me there. 

Mr. Sanders. "Would "arrangement" make you feel better? 

Mr. Nelson. T'm not fjuarreling about the words. What he did. he 
called me and asked me to go to this meeting and have this man meet 
me, and so forth. Parr was the man who knew, or saw Senator TTmn- 
phrey much more often and knew him lietter than T. 

Mr. Sanders. T presume that Valentine would not have been in 
attendance at the function ? 

Mr. Nelson. T don't believe he was. 

Mr. Sanders. Is it your recollection, then, that when he drove you 
to the airport you and Parr were the only ones in the automobile? 

Mr. Nelson. That is my recollection. 

Mv. Sanders. "\'\niat did Valentine state to you to be his purpose in 
wanting to have the opportimity to visit with you ? 

Mr. Nelson. As T recall. ]Mr. Parr already told me the purpose. 

Mr. Sanders. Befoi-e the ride? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, that's as I recall. 

Mr. Sanders. Did it appear to you that what Valentine was inter- 
ested in was an understanding or agreement Avith AMPI whereby 
AMPI would be provided witli computer-address listings and make 



6585 

some payments to Valentine, Slieniian to help out with the Humphrey 
campai<i:n? Or did it aj^poar to yon that what Valentine was interested 
in was A^IPI payments for arran^rements which had previously been 
entered into between AMPI and Valentine, Sherman? 

]Mr. Xklsox. You mean previously in the sense that innnediately 
previously ? 

Mr. Saxders. No. I am exploring the possibility that at some earlier 
time, perhaps even months before, that someone in AMPT had made an 
arran<;ement or afjreement with Valentine, Sherman for the overall 
project, and I am wondering if this contact, at tliis time by Valentine, 
was merely to produce payment for the project previously atjreed to. 

]Mr. Xklsox. Well that wasn't the postui'e it was put in to me. If 
that is. in fact, the case it isn't the posture 

Mr. Saxdkks. All right, now it appeared to you, as of the time that 
you met with Valentine, that there still at that point was no agreement 
With AMPI? 

Mr. Nelsox. That's right. In other words, he didn't indicate to me 
in any way that he felt at that point tliat we owed him any money. I 
take it that's what you're getting at. He didn't — as I recall, he didn't 
indicate that to me at that time. 

Mr. Saxders. Now, as of that time, that day, had you ever before 
been aware that Valentime, Sherman was interested in doing work for 
AMPI? 

INIr. Nelsox. I don't recall, you know, any — I don't recall their hav- 
ing done any work before. I don't recall having met with Mr. Valen- 
tine or Mr. Sherman before that. 

Mr. Saxders. AVould you judge it to be unlikely tliat Lilly would 
have — Lilly or Parr — would have entered into any sucli agreement 
with Valentine, Sherman without in some manner consulting with 
you? 

ISIr. Nei-sox. I would judge it unlikely that Lilly would. 

Mr. Saxders. And from the posture of the meeting, it appeared to 
5'ou that Parr had not made any prior arrangements? 

INIr. Nelsox. That was the — as far as anything that — now I want to 
make it clear; it was clear to me that ISIr. Parr had discussed this with 
them, and had told him that he would have me there to talk to him ; 
that was clear. 

Mr. Saxders. But not that he had made any 

Mr. Nelsox. There wasn't any indication on the part of Mr. Valen- 
tine that lie liad made — that Mr. Parr had made a commitment to him 
or had employed him, and so forth. That wasn't the posture of the 
meeting. 

^Ir. Hamiltox ISIay I ask a question here ? 

Mr. Saxders. Yes. 

jNIr. Ha:miltox. Do you remember IMr. Parr saying when he discussed 
it with Mv. Valentine? 

Mr. Nelsox. It was when we got to ISIinneapolis. 

Mr. Hamiltox. I'm sorry; that question was ambiguous. I don't 
mean when he said it to you, I mean did he say it when he and Mr. 
Valentine had gotten together? 



6586 

]Mr. NrxsoN. No, he didn't as I recall. He may have, but I don't 
remember. 

Mr. PIamiltox. Well, do you remember him sayinc; that they met on 
an airplane, a ])rivate plane, when ^Iv. IImn])hrey was — and ]\[r Con- 
nell was, I believe — flying from Kentucky, back to ^linnesota ? Does 
that rino- a bell at all? 

Mr. Nelson. No, it doesn't. This all took place pretty quick, this 
particular transaction. I think he took us back to the airport and ]Mr. 
Parr made his pitch on the deal and so on. 

Now, it might have been that he actually picked us up at the airport 
and took us to the meeting: and he may have done l)oth, but the way 
it comes to my mind is that we met him right after the meeting and 
went to the airport with him, and that's the way it happened. 

Mr. Hamilton. Do 3'ou remember evei' seeing, or hearing, ]Mr. Parr 
talk about a written proposal given A^NIPI by Valentine, Sherman that 
spelled out the services that Valentine, Sherman could jierform for 
them ? 

Mr. Nelson. I sure don't. AVas tliis something that was su})posed to 
have been submitted to the board of AMPT or something!' 

Mr. Hamilton. Well, something he submitted to ]Mr. Pan-. 

Mr, Nelson. I don't recall ever having seen that. 

Mr. Sanders. ]^efore the date of this meeting with Valentine, had 
you had any discussions with Parr or Lilly concerning the idea of pur- 
chasing farmers' lists for expanding the membership ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. 

INIr. Sandees. This Avas tlie first occasion when this subject had been 
broached? 

Ml'. Nelson. I believe so; I don't remembei- Lilly ai)proaching me 
at all on this. And, as I I'ecall, the first time this had been bi'ought u]) 
to me was when we met jNIr. Valentine. Mr. Parr may have mentioned 
this to me pi'ior to this time, going up there, but I don't believe so. 

Mv. Sanders. Was it indicated to you that these farmers' lists, rural 
lists, Avould identify those persons who were dairy farmers ? 

]Mr. Nei-son. T believe that it was — that we would have dairy farm- 
ei"S by counties. Now I may be wrong on that, but I believe that's 

Mr. Sanders. If the dairy farmers had not been indicated, it would 
have ]iot been of great value to you? 

Nr. Nelson. Well, it would have been of value, but it wouldn't have 
been of much value. Tt would have eliminated a lot of needless mail- 
ing. But it obviously wouldn't havC' beeii as valuable if they were by — 
if it wei'e by dairy farmers, as opposed to all farmers. 

Mr. Sanders. As of that ])oint in time, had AMPI engaged in any 
mass mailing to increase membei'ship? 

Mr. Nelson. No; I don't believe so. The general method was to have 
country meetings and fieldmen to call on farmers who hadn't yet 
joined, that sort of thing. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you feel that this was a reasonable, rational way 
to approach enlarging membership for your association? That is, by 
a mailing process? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I question its value. 



6587 

Mr. Sanders. During the meeting with Valentine — this may have 
been asked and I think in one way yon may have answered this — was 
it indicated to you what the cost would be to AMPI ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Just as I responded to his question, as I recall the figure 
he gave is within the ball ])ark on it 

Mr. Sanders. About $140,000 ? 

Mr. Xeesox. Or something like that. I really don't recall the spe- 
cifics, but that is the general impression I retained. 

Mr. Saxders. I guess what I want to say is that that seems like a 
substantial expenditure. 

Mr. Nelsox. Xo question about it. 

Mr. Saxders. And I presume that in the ride with Valentine, you 
agreed with him that you would — that AIMPT would be committed 
to that extent ? Is that correct ? 

Mr. XEr>;ox. Well, to whatever — as I say, that figur-e is in the ball 
park and it was agreed that AMPI would be committed to whatever 
the agreed-on figure Avas. 

Mr. Saxders. So that inasmuch as the rural listings, as you said, 
might be of some questionable value to AMPI, would it be fair to say 
that the true thrust of your agi-eement there was to be of benefit to 
the Humphrey campaign ? 

jNIr. Xelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Saxders. Did it appear to you that the idea to produce member- 
ship, or rural lists, for AMPI was a Valentine idea or a Parr-Lilly 
idea ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Well. I would say that it was a Parr idea. I don't 
think — as I recall, I don't think Lilly is the guy who thought this up at 
all. He is the one who later, you know, carried out more or less the 
execution of the agreement, but he wasn't, as I recall — now I might 
be wrong about that^but as I recall this was a Parr idea. 

Mr. SAXDf:RS. And what I am trving to get at is whether it might 
have actually been initiated by Valentine, Sherman, or by Parr in 
order to be of help to the Humphrey campaign ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I think it was initiated by Parr. 

Mr, Sanders. Did you learn at any time from Parr or anyone else 
that Chestnut had approached one of them — Parr or someone else in 
AMPI — with respect to this idea ; that is, that they solicited assistance 
for the Humphrey campaign in this manner? 

Mr. Xeijsox'. I don't recall that. 

Mr. Saxders. You had no indication that Chestnut was involved? 

;Mr. Xelsox. Xot that I recall. If I did, I didn't have the indication 
from Valentine at all. It would be, you know — if that was suggested 
to me, it would have been Parr; he would have been the one that told 
me that. I don't recall him saying that. 

Mr. Sax-^ders. Were you contemporaneously notified at the time that 
a reel or tape was, in fact, received by AMPI ? 

Mr. Xelsox-^. I don't know that I was ; I don't believe I was. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you think that this was received before you left 
AMPI? 



6588 

Mr. Xet.sox. T don't know: it soems to me tliat I was notified after 
I left A^NIPI that tliey did have this, or. yon know, some of these. But 
I don't know wlietliei' thev were received before or after. 

Mr. SAXDETts. From tlie time of your meetin£>: with Valentine until 
tlie time you left A^IPI. did you ever have any discussions or confer- 
ences with other AMPI officials, about makino- some use of the tapes 
for the benefit of AMPI? 

Mr. Nf-lsox. I don't recall any. I may have if I knew about it, but 
I don't recall. 

Mr. Saxdeus. All ri<rht ; now in the ride witli Valentine, what was 
the understandino- as to tlie first payment to ])e made — how much? Do 
you have any recollection ? 

Mr. Neesox. No. 

Mr. Saxders. Do you have any recollection of a mention of reducing 
the aoreement to writing? 

Mr. Neusox. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Saxders. When you were shown, by Mr. Hamilton, tliis coii- 
tract liearino- your signature, dated June 10, which is part of Lilly 
exhibit No. o'i*, did you say that you recall signing it? 

Mr. Nelsox. That's my signature on it. 

Mr. Saxuers. Aside from recognizing your handwriting, do you 
recall signing it? 

Mr. Nelsox. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Saxders. In response to some question by 'Sir. ITamilton, you 
did make some mention of iust not — I am not sure I understood the 
full im]wrt of M'hat you said. It was sometliin2r about Chestnut would 
have known aliout — that he would liave been the one in the Humphrey 
cam])aign ; he would have been the one who knew about it ? 

Mr. Neesox. Yes ; he prepared the instrument. 

Mr. Saxders. I wanted to ask you, what is the basis of your state- 
ment in that respect? 

Mr. Nelsox. Because I have beeii shown the instrument that had 
been prepared by him. There is a cover letter prepared by him with 
the instrument. 

Mr. Saxders. The cover letter is from Valentine. 

Mr. Nelsox. Chestnut's name is mentioni'd. 

Mr. Saxders. Is it solely because of the mention in that letter that 
you say he would have known about it ? 

Mr.'NELSOx". Yes; and. also, he was — as I recall, he was the cam- 
paign manager for a while. 

jNIr. Saxders. But you have no indoi)endent. personal I'ecollection 
of any knowledge on the part of Chestnut ? 

]Mr. Nelsox. No. 
fDiscussion off the record.] 

Mr. Hamtltox. Let's look again at tliis contract. Why don't you 
read it here with me? Can you see it ? And T want you to answer some 
questions after reading it. 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. 

INIr. Hamtltox^. Now let me also let you I'ead again the cover letter 
that was sent to you by Jack Valentine. 
INIr. Nelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Hamiltox. Now, do you remember, having read this, the cir- 
cumstances surrounding the drawing up of this contract? 



♦See Book 14, p. 6216. 



6589 

Mr. Nelson. Xo; that may have been discussed tliat iii<iht, when we 
ao;reed to do this. 

IMr. Hamiltox. Well you say here^ — some of the things in this con- 
tract — it sa^'s: "The list is desired by AiNIPI for use in direct mail 
and/or mai'ketino- services as they may pertain to its commercial 
needs." Xow what does that mean ? 

INIr. Nelsox. Tt doesn't mean anythino; specific to me because I was 
thinkino; of the tliino- always in terms of membership. 

jMr. Hamii.tox. AVould it be fail- to say that this contract was to 
cover the services that were ^oinfj to be rendered to Mr. Humphrey? 
In other words, it was a document that really didn't have much mean- 
ing- but it was to provide a justification for the services provided 
Humphrey ? 

^h'. Xelsox. "Well, just as I described it earlier, that is exactly — I 
think this is designed to cover the agreement that we made with 
Valentine. 

ISIr. Hamietox'. Now do you have any idea what the two $25,000's 
are for? In other words, you notice the contract says that you will 
pay, immediately, $25,000, and it is expected in another 6 to 8 weeks; 
another $25,000 would be forthcoming. 

Mr. Xelsox^. No; just a part of tlie total consideration. 

lSh\ Hamietox\ Let me show you this invoice that is dated June 15, 
also part of Lilly exhibit No. 82, which is right after the contract 
signing date, and this says, "$25,000, OK, H. I^ " 

IMr. Nelsox. H-S-N. 

IVIr. Hamilton. Are those your initials? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Hamiltox'^. Did you make this script here? I mean this is your 
writing? 

]Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Hamiltox\ This says, "Re Iowa project, consulting services." 
Do you have any idea what that was for ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, I think that is just Valentine, Sherman disk 
thing that we were talking about. 

Mr. Hamiltox'. But clo you know exactly what services you per- 
formed — Valentine, Sherman performed? 

Mr. Nelsox. Furnishing those names. 

Mr. Hamiltox'^. To Humphrey? 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, furnishing us the disks, too, with Iowa names on 
it. 

]\Ir. Hamiltox. But is it your understanding that in June you got 
actual lists? 

Mr. Nelson. No; I can't tell you that we did. I don't believe that 
we did have them by theiL We might have, but I don't think so. 

Mr. Hamilton. Do you know if this money went solely for lists 
furnished to Hum))hrey or some other political candidate? 

Mr. Nelsox. Well I think they furnished us this list, too, ultimately. 
I mean I think they furnished this list of rural people — I might be 
wrong about that, but I think they did. 

Mr. Hamiltox. Well, now, there is another invoice here — a dift'erent 
number; actually it is 

INIr. Nelsox'. No ; 157— it's got the same number. 



6590 

Mr. ITamiltox. It's o;ot tlie same number, but it's a different invoice, 
same date, also part of Lilly exhibit No. 82. And, you've <>ot "OK" 
on here. And this says "$25,000 for consult inc: services, see ajj:reeinent 
between A'alentine, Sherman and AjNIPI." Now do you happen to 
know what this refers to? 

Mr. Nelson. I would think it was the same tliino;. 

Mr. HajMiltox. The same tliino-? 

Mr. Nelson. As far as I know. Let's see what this was paid — same 
invoice, only this says 

]\Ir. ITaimiltox. Same invoice number, only tliey'A'c aot different 
descriptions. 

Mr. Nelson. There's no indication of whether this was — you see 
they were both sent to Dave Parr before they were sent on to me. I 
would say it is the same thing. That would be my judgment. 

Mr. Hamilton. What does this "OK'' mean:' Did you ]ia\e to ap- 
prove all payments? 

]\rr. Nklson. No; but I OK'd those liefore they went to the comp- 
trolUr for payment. 

]Mr. ITamiltox". Why did you OK these ? 

j\Ir. Nelson. Well, an effort to exercise souie control over the amount 
of this sort of thino- that was done. 

yiv. Hamilton. I don't understand. Tlie amount of what sort of 
thing ? 

^fr. Ni:l><on. Of this sort of expenditure. 

^Iv. irA:\nL'niN. When you say "this soit" you mean political ex- 
penditiii'es? You iiica]! iiinjor exjxnulitui'es ^ 

jNfr. Nelson. I mean ])olitical expenditures. 

;Mr. Ha:miltox. And I take it. this amount was i)aid by corporate 
funds, is that right ? 

j\Ir. Nelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Ha:miltox. All these payments we are talkiiig about were cor- 
porate funds ? 

]Mr. Nelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Ha:\iiltox, In that contract I showed you a minute ago, it was 
dated .Tune 10, but the letter, cover letter, was dated August 2. Do 
you have any idea why the contract was backdated? 

iNIr. Nelsox. No; let's see what the date was on this thing. It's sup- 
posed to make it covei- these. I would just assume it was just so it 
would cover those. 

]\rr. Hamiltox. Well there ai'e a nuuiber of otlier invoices here that 
I haACu't juit in any order, but here is one for Kansas ? 

^Ir. Nelsox. It would be the same sort of 

Mr. HA]\riLTox. Are these your initials again? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. 

ISIr. Hamiltox. And vou don't remember anv specifics ? What it was 
for? 

]Mr. Nelsox. No. 

INIr. TTA:NriLTox. Your understanding of this ijivoice and the rest of 
it — I guess the last one I'm going to show you is that they aie all pay- 
ments to Valentine, Sherman and the benefits from these payments 
would ffo, one to AMPI, at some future time, and two to Humphrey? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 



6591 

Mr. Hamilton. I've fi^ot a number of iiuoices here, hut I'm just 
showing you the ones with your initials. 

Mr. Nklsox. Yes; that is my untleistandiiio- of it. 

]\lr. IIamiltox. Here is one, this is a<»:ain for the recoixl. 

:Mr. (Iallmax. Tliat hist one was for $25,000 wasn't it? 

]\Ir. IIamiltox. For $!20.()0(). It was Kansas and it was dated Xo- 
\emher 12. 

Here is one dated December 1, for Wisconsin, and it is $7,000, with 
your initials on it. 

Mr. Nklsox. Yes; I think that's riij:ht. 

Mr. IIamiltox. Again, that is your initial, isn't it? 

This one is July HO, 1971. and it is for compilation of residents of 
rural areas in ^liunesota. Xorth Dalcota, and iMwa. It is $2r),()00. 

Mr. Xklsox. Yes. 

]Mr. IIamiltox. And heie is an invoice dated September 21, no area. 
It just says: "Consulting services and the creation of various farm 
mailing lists." The amount is $7,000. 

Again, that is your signature? 

Mr. Xelsox^. Yes. 

^Ir, IIamiltox'. And one dated Septembe!' 1, 1971, for Nebraska, 
$15,000. And then it's got up here— what is th:\t, "BAL for IISN"? 

Mr. Nklson. ok, B-something. That's Bob Tilly for HSN. 

Mr. IIamiltox. That's whose handwriting^ 

Mr. Nelson. I can't tell. 

Mr. IIamiltox". You don't knoA\' ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Hamilton". And I think the next one is September 24 for South 
Dakota, and it says, "BAL for HSN." 

]\Ir. Saxders. i'liat's a duplicate of the other. 

:Mr. Hamilton. Oh, for $10,500 ^ 

Mr. Saxders. I thought you said $7,000. 

Mr. IIamiltox'. No. I believe these are the only invoices that we 
have received with your initials on them, or \vith somebody initialing 
for you. 

Do you recall how many of these invoices you actually saw? 

Mr. Nelsox. No. It seems like those that Mv. Lilly OK'd, he wouldn't 
feel comi)elled to show them to me because he wouldn't OK one that 
he didn't knoAv was all right with me. 

^Ir. IIamiltox'. So you didn't ha\e to see major expenditures of this 
type— $10,000? 

]\Ir. Nelson. No, not if it was something that, you know — that thing 
was just so big that there was no way that you could sit down and vSee 
all the expenditure's. 

Mr. IIamiltox'. Sure. 

And vou don't know if you appioved in\'oices for a total of over 
$100,000 commitment? 

Mr. Nelson. No. I would say that I came close to it. 

Mr. Gallman. That's $134,000 right there. 

:Mr. Hamilton. That's $134,000 right there. 

]Mr. Nelson. Of course, all of those didn't have my initials on them. 
I think that's the gist of your question. 



6592 

Mr. TTA:\rri.Tox. Did y(m ever <2'et the impression or uiuleistancliiio; 
from ]\[r. Valentine or fiom ]Mi'. Lilly oi' from anybody that certain 
political lists were <join<z to peo])le other than Hum})hrey? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, let's see. I don't knoAv that it was political lists. 
That may be the reason these things Averc ])illed the way they were, 
some of them showino- Kansas, some of tliem showinf; Oklahoma, and 
others that wouldn't be in Huiiiphrey's normal area. 

Mv. Lilly would be the one wlio w^oiild have to tell you about that, 
or Mi: Parr, about money going other than to Humphrey on those 
situations. 

Mr. Hamii>ton. What about Oklahoma? 

Do you remember any specifics in Oklahoma as to who was getting 
some benefits ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I don't remember the specifics. There may have 
been some to Governor Hall, and there may have been some in Kansas 
to Governor Docking. I^ut I can't tell you the specifics. 

]\Ir. Hamilton, Well, were these jn^earranged ? 

In other words, do you know if — do you know how it was deter- 
mined that these payments or these lists would be provided? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't know that lists were provided. That's what 
I'm saying. There may have been some money sent there. I don't 
know that lists were provided. 

Mr. }L\MiLT0N. Money sent from AMPI there? 

IMr. Nelson. INIoney sent— initially, the money that originated with 
AINIPI, yes. 

]Mr. Hamilton. Sent there for what? 

]Mr. Nelson. Political purposes. 

Mr. Hamilton. Political contributions, directly? 

]Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Hamilton. I want to make sure I understand you right. 

]\fr. Nelson. Yes. 

iNfr. IL\MiLT0N. Are you — it sounds like what you are saying is that 
some of these invoices were foi- services that w^eren't rendered, and 
they were straight political contvibutions, 

Mr. Nelson. That's Avhat I'm saying. It's a possibility. I'm not sure 
about that. Mv. Lilly or INIr. Parr would be the ones who would have to 
tell you that. 

Mv. HA:\nLT0N. Why do you say it is a possibility? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, because on some of those things it says Kansas 
and Oklahoma and so forth, aiid I don't believe we were given any 
lists for those States. 

Mr. Hamilton. When vou say "we" 

jNIr. Nelson. AINIPI, 

Mr, Hamilton. Well, do you luiow of people in the States Avho were 
given any list ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, they would l»e sent to AMPI headquarters. 

Mr. Hamilton. No, I mean political people. 

]\Ir. Nelson. No, I don't. No, I don't know that. 

INIr, Hamilton. Is it fair to say that you're really just speculating, 
you have no facts ? 

Mr. Nelson. I have no direct si)ecific knowledge about those situa- 
tions. 



6503 

Mr. HAMn.Tox. Do you liave any knowledge besides your specula- 
tion, based upon your seeing invoices now and your not thinking that 
anv lists wei'c received from those States by AMPI ? 

^fr. Xi-i.sox. "Well then too, T ha\e been told that there were some 
contributions in tliose States. 

Mr. ITamii.tox. AVho told you that ? 

^h\ Xki>;ox. I'm not sure. I believe it Avas Mr. Lilly, or way back 
there 'Sir. Parr. 

Ml". ITamiltox. (^ontri])utions to whom? 

Mr. Xelsox. To tlie people I mentioned. 

Mr. ITamtltox. TTall and Docking? 

Mv. Xei.sox. TTall and Docking campaigns. 

]\rr. Saxdf.rs. Ta t me ask a question. 

ATi'. TTA^rir.TOx. Sure. 

INIr. Saxders. What we have just l)een l(M)king at aie Valentine, 
Sherman invoices to AINTPT. Xow. if AlNfri — presumably, AMPI 
actually sent cheeks to Valentine, Sherman in payment. 

Mr. Nfj-sox. Tluit's right. That's right. 

'Mr. Saxders. And what you seem to be indicating is that Valen- 
tine, Sherman was the conduit for some money for the candidates? 

]\Tr. Xkesox. I'm just raising that as a possibility. I don't know 
that. I had no such understanding A\'ith them. I don't know that. But 
]\rr. T^illy or Mr. T^irr would know that. 

Mr. Saxders. OTC. 

Mr. TTA:>riETox. Well, did vou ever hear of any work being done in 
the States of Iowa and South'Dakota ? 

In other words, there are a couple of invoices here for work sup- 
posedly done in Iowa. 

Mr. Xelsox. AW'll, I think we got lists for those States. 

Mr. IlA^riETox. Do you know if any political figures in those States 
other than IIum])hi-ey got political lists from Valentine, Sherman? 

]\rr. Xfxsox. Xo. I don't. 

^Tr. IIamiltox. Do vou know if Humphrey got any lists from 
those ? 

Mr. Xfxsox-^. X^o. I don't actually know that. 

Mr. IIa:miltox. Do you remember a situation in December of 1971 
where AMPI Avas asked to giA^e $25,000 to Valentine, Sherman to pay 
off. or help pay off, a campaign debt that Humphrey had owed Valen- 
tine, Sherman? 

Ml-. Xelsox. Xo. '\Mien Avas this ? 

Mr. IIamiltox. In December 1971. 

]\rr. Xelsox. X^o, I don't. We Avere already making payments to 
Valentine, Sherman. 

You mean in addition to the payments we were making? 

Mr. IIamiltox. Well, a specific instance— Did anyone come to you 
in December or maybe XoA'ember, Jack Chestnut or Valentine, Sher- 
man, anybody, and ask you to pay an additional $25,000 to meet a debt, 
another debt that Humphrey had? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xot that I recall. I doubt that they would have come 
to me, to tell a'ou the truth. ThcA' probablv would have gone to Mr. 
Parr or to Bob Lilly. 

Mr. Hamiltox. You don't remember having any discussions about 
this with Mr. Valentine? 



6594 

]Mr. Nelsox. No, I don't beliovo — the only time I recall having any 
discussion with Mr. Valentine is up there at that airport that time. 
Now, I might have had another discussion with him, but I sure don't 
recall it. 

Mr. Hamilton, Do you recall having any discussion with Mr. 
Sherman ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't recall ever having seen but one of those gen- 
tlemen. 

Mr. Hamilton. So tliis instance doesn't ring anv kind of a bell at 
all? 
Mr. Nelson. No. 
]Mr. Hamilton. Do you remcmlier ever Iniving any discussion with 

Valentine about the dangers of using corporate moiiej' to pay 

]Mr. Nelson. Yes, I tliink tliat was just discussed in passing that 
night in the car. 

Mr. Hamilton. Do you remomlier the sulistance, if it was just dis- 
cussed in passing, what A'alentine said and what you said ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I can't tell you. you know, what lie said and what I 
said. I said something to the effe^'t that I wanted to make sure that we 
got services and so fortli to back up the invoices. And as I recall, his 
general attitude was tliat he waiited it as much as I did. 

I\Ir. Haimilton. Do you rememlier who i-aised it, wlio brought it up? 
Mr. Nelson. No, I doii't recall wliether I In'ought it up or wliether he 
brought it up. 

Mr. Hamilton. But you say tlicre was mutual concern about it? 
Mr. Nelson. That's I'ight. 

]\Ir. Hamilton. Did you then, or do you now think that in this you 
were operating illegally ? 

]Mr. Nelson. Do I now tliink that ? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes. 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. I don't think that. 

INIr. Hamilton. You think there was notliing wrong with Humphrey 

getting these services if 

Mr. Nelson. I misunderstood your question. I thought you asked if 
I now think it was operated illegally. 

]Mr. Hamilton. No. My question was whether at that time — let me 
stick to that time for the moment — you thought this arrangement by 
which you would pay Valentine, Sherman a certain amount of money 
and they would provide lists to you and lists to Humphrey was illegal 
in any way ? 

Mr. Nelson. At that time? 
INIr. Hamilton. Yes. 
_ IMr. Nelson. No, I didn't think so at tliat time. I thought, at that 
time — I thought well, to do it this way will be legal. 

But I understood your question a while ago, do I noAv think that— — 
Mr. Hamilton. Well, let me ask you that one. 
INIr. Nelson. T now think it is illegal. 
IMr. Haimilton. You think it's illegal? 
INIr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hamilton, And at that time, did you consult a lawyer as to 
the legality? 

Mr. Nelson. No. I don't want to be misunderstood. At that time, 
when I say at that time I thought it was legal, I'm not trying to make a 



6595 

self-serving statement, just in the circumstances at tlie time and so 
forth, and with the desire to do this thing anyway this seemed to be a 
lo<iioal way that it couhl be done leijally. We were going- to get these 
lis'ts and so forth, and PTuniphrey woidd get lists cheaper and so forth. 
But I am not here to try to say that then it was legal and now it's 
illegal. 

Mr. IIa:mtlt()x. Xo, I understand. T understand. 

INfr. Nki.sox. I am just saying that there's no point in trying to gild 
the lillv. I recognize it as being illegal. 

;Mr. ITamit.ton. Xo, I understand you, and I'm sorry if I didn't make 
tlie question clear at first. 

^Nlr. X'ki.sox. Xo. T prol)ably misunderstood you. 

Mr. IIamiltox. Don, I interrupted you. 

]Mr. Saxokrs. You then liave no recollection of receiving any — of 
liaving any discussions witli Parr or Lilly as the months progressed 
after the nieeting with Valentine about making payments to Valentine, 
Sherman? 

Mr. X'ki.son. Well, if T had any, they would have been with Lilly 
a])Out making payments. But I don't 

Mr. Sandp:rs. Aside from the fact that your initials appear on any 
of these invoices, you have no independent recollection of any conver- 
sations with any other A^MPI ofhcials concerning these payments to 
Valentine, Sherman? 

jNTr. Nklson. No. 

]\rr. Saxders. Have you at any time talked with Jack Chestnut or 
Senator ITumpliiey concerning this AMPI arrangement with Valen- 
tine, Slierman? 

]Mr. Xki>sox. X'o. T might have with Jack Chestnut at the time he 
sent that contract. You know, he might have called me or something. 
But I don't recall liaving had a conversation \^•ith him about this, and 
certaiidy not with Senator Humphrey. 

^fi'. Saxdkrs. During your auto ride w'ith Valentine, did he give 
you any indication of — did he make any statements concerning benefit 
of any kind which would accrue to the Humphrey campaign ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes; he said that this would make it possible for them 
to furnish lists to the Humphrey campaign for much less than they 
otherwise would ho able to do it. 

Afi-. Saxders. Did Parr make any remarks with regard to benefits 
which would accrue to the Humphrev campaign ? 

Ml". X^Ei.sox. ^Vell, I can't tell you specific remarks, of course. Parr 
wanted to do it. 

Mr. Saxders. That's all. Jim. ,' 

Mr. GAEE:NrAx. Off the record. 

[Discussion ofi the record.] 

Mr. Hamiltox. Go back on the record. 

This is someAvhat of a pedantic question, hut as we talk, can you 
i-emember any meeting that 3^ou had with the Humphrey people — 
the A]\n^I people had with the Humphrey people, somewhere in 
^Minnesota, maybe in a tent at a fundraiser? 

Mr. X^'elsox. You see, this is a question that has bugged me, because 
you're not the first person who has asked me, and that's the first time 
the tent question has been raised, but at a raeeting like at Waverley 
and so forth, and I've never been to Waverly in my life. The only 



6596 

pt'T'sou tliat I know of wlio would havo been in any such of these 
tliinos that you're asking- about, this would be ]Mr. Parr. I don't think 
any otlier peison from AJNIPI would have been there. I don't think 
^[r. Lilly would have. T Mas at a nieetino-. it was a vei'y short lueetino^, 
one time, and I can't really remember the purpose of it. It was when 
Senator Humphrey was teachiiiii* at MacAlister College — I think it's 
INIacAlister Colleo-e there— and he had a home close to the campus. 
And Ml'. Parr and I went by there, and there were a few other people 
there. Put T was never at his home at Waverley, and T have never had 
a meetino;, I have never attended a meeting" in a tent, and I have never 
heard that one until just I'io-ht ]k>w when you asked the question. 

Mr. IlA^vriLTox. Well, you say other people have been asking about 
this meeting. ; • 

Who do you mean, the prosecutois ? 

INIr. Nki.sox. Yes. They asked me about tlie meeting, and then some- 
body — ^I guess it was you or Cartel' asked me about it. And I just don't 
know anything about it. 

Mr. TTA:\rii/r()X. Well, considci-ing your meeting with the prose- 
cutors in regard to this Valentine, Sherman business, did they go into 
any areas, or did you tell them anything more than you just told us? 

Mr. Xelsox. As a matter of fact, I told them less, because they 
didn't show me these documents and take me through it like you did. 
I told them essentially that it v.as a deal to provide these tapes so 
that irumi)hrey would get the money, get tlu^se services for less money, 
and that we did make ])ayments. and I couldn't tell them the amount. 
That is just about the sum and substance of my testimony. 

Mr. Hv^riLTOX. Well, are there any aspects of your relationship 
with Valentine, Sherman that you haven't told us now ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No, there sure aren't. 

INfr. PTa^ftltox. I mean, have we exhausted your knowledge? 

]\fr. Nei.sox. You've exhausted my knowledge. I'll tell you, the 
only person I could talk to that might refresh me or give me more than 
I have told you M'ould ])e Mr. Lilly. If I called him and told him that 
we had luul this conversation about this 

^iv. Hamiltox. Whv do vou think ]Mr. Lillv would be 



Mr. Nelsox. He's the only one who knows about the actual tapes 
that were received and that sort of thing. 

I don't think — I'll bo honest with you — I don't think he can tell me 
anything I haven't told you. 

]\Ir. IIa:miltox. Well, liave \(ni had discussions with Mr. Lillv 
since you left AMT^I? 

^Ir. Nelsox. I asked him about Valentino. Sherman one time, and 
he told me they did have some tai)es over there. Tliat's the only dis- 
cussions I have had with him. 

]\Ir. ITA:\iir;r()x. Did lie evei- tell you that any documentation had 
been prepared to support the recei))t of those tapes ? 

^Nlr. Nelsox. No. To su))port tlie receipt of the ta])es by 

Mr. IIa^nftltox. l^y AMPI. To support the expenditures in more 
detail ? 

Did he ever tell you that a sei'ies of coircspondence between him- 
self and Mr. \''alentine had been ])repared by Mr. Valentine ? 

Mv. Nelsox. I don't recall this. 



6597 

Mr. Hamilton. And a set of invoices that would support the 
transaction? 

^Fi-. Xklsox. No. I knew these invoices that you sliowcd nie, 

]\Ir. ITamiltox. Xo, I'm talking al)out other invoices. 

Mr. Nelson. No. 1 don't recall his having told me that at all. 

You in(>:in in addition to these ? 

Mr. ITAMH/roN. Yes. 

Mr. Nklson". No. 

Mr. Hamilton'. This is the liist time you've heardof that? 

Mr. Nklsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. (tallmax. OtY the record. 

[Discussion oil' the recoid.] 

Mr. Sanders. On the recnn-d. 

I want to show you, ]Mr. Nelson, some notes which have ])een pro- 
Aided to us by Lilly*, and it runs for several pages here, and I would 
like you to l(K)k at this ami see if it moans anything to you, or refreshes 
}()ur memory'. 

Mr. Nelsox. This is referi'ing to that agieement that I looked at 
a while ago? 

iNIr. Saxdeiis. Well, possibly, yes. You sec, liilly is getting a lot of 
this second-hand and making notes, as it comes to him. 

Mr. Nelsox. I see. 

I assume, you see, that this means that T OK'd bills for this, and 
Dave Viirv did for these two, and I did for these two. 

^Ir. Sanders, ^^-s, and so your initials in Lilly's handwriting appear 
opposite — ■ — ■ 

Mr. Nelsox. INfinnesota. 

Mr. Saxders [(continuing]. Pavuionts of $45,000 and $5,000 for 
:Minnesota, a total of $50,000. 

]Mi-. Nklsox. And also for Iowa. 

jNIr. Sanders. Ivight. 

NoAV, does that rucan anything to you ? 

Does it indicat" to you that you had approved some payment of 
funds to Valentine, Sherman in ad\'ance for projects in Iowa and 
Minnesota, or only that you approved payments? 

jNIr. Nelsox. I think, as far as I'm concerned, I approved the pay- 
ments as invoices came across. 

;Mr. Saxders. OK. 

liCt's take a look at the next page now. Nimv, this mdicates "50 for 
THTH, 50 Iowa to Hughes per HSN." 

Do }ou lune any recollection that Senator Hughes was getting any 
beiiefits for the I(nva work? 

"Sir. Nelsox'. No. 

Ml". Saxders. T )eloss Walkei-, "West Memphis. 

Do you know "W'alker? 

Mr. Nelsox'. I don't. I think I met him o]ie time on an airplane. He 
has been a campaign manager for some candidates, I think among 
othei'S 

^Ir. Saxders. He was a professional ? 

]\rr. Nelsox. A professional campaign manager. 

Mr. Saxders. This is similar. 

Mv. Nelsox. This is "5 TAPE. HSN". I guess that means that was 
expended by TAPE out of TAPE funds as per me, I guess. I think 
that's what he's talking about. 



*See Wcitz affidavit, Book 14, p. 6222. 



6598 

Mr. Sanders. But all of the invoices that we have just shown you 
today were paid out of AMPI funds. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes; now, that is my understanding. That is my 
total understanding. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think 
they were paid. 

Mr. Sanders. This says, "Cheese pro and INS". 

Mr. Nelson. What does that ](jok like to you, "thermal mugs"? 

Mr. Sanders. It could be. 

Does that mean anything to you ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Sanders. That would merelv be an accounting of the invoices in 
there? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

lh\ Sanders. That's a duplicate ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr, Sanders. That also looks like a duplicate. 

OK, that's all. 

Mr. Nelson. That's it ? 

Mr. Sanders. Did A:MPI fulfi]] the $50.000— approximately $50,000 
declaration which was made for Senator Humphrey at the function in 
]\Iinneapolis ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't icnow. I forcfet. When was that function? Was 
that the fall of 19Y1? 

Mr. Sanders. I don't Ivuow tlie date. We're going to liave to look at 
the private plane logs to come u}i with that. 

Mr. Nelson. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Its almost 6:30 p.m. and we can't finish tonight so 
maybe we should recess imtil tomorrow n^orning at o'clock. 

[Whereupon, at G:25 p.m., the liearing in the al)(i\e-entitled matter 
recessed, to reconvene at a.m., December li), 1973.] 



WEDNESDAY, DECEMBEK 19, 1973 

U.S. Senate, 
Select Commiiit.e on 
Presidential Campaign Acti\t[ties, 

W ashing t mi.) D.G. 
The Select Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9 :10 a.m. in room 
G-33i, Dirksen Semite Office l^uilding;. 

Present: David Dorsen and Jim Hamilton, assistant chief coun- 
sels; Alan Weitz and Dennis Summers, assistant majority counsels; 
Donald Sandei-s, dcput y minority counsel. 

Mr. Sanders. This is a continuation of the executive session we held 
yesterday, December 18, with ^Mr. Nelson, and it is understood that 
he continues to be under oath today as he was yesterday. 

Mr. Nelson, I want to read into the record these two short para- 
graphs, and tlien ask your comment on them. These are from notes 
Avhich were furnished to us by Bob Lilly : 

On July 19. 1971, Harold Nelson requested Bob Isham to issue a check to 
Valentine & Associates for $25,000. Isham complied, and Harold Nelson took 
the check with him, and I assume delivered it to Valentiut. On the da.Y he 
issuetl the check, Isham asked me if I knew who Valentine was. I told him I 
had no idea. 

I think it might be better to take these two paragraphs separately. 
Do you have a recollection of asking Isham to issue a $25,000 check 
to Valentine & Associates in July of 1971 ? < 

TESTIMONY OF HAROLD S. NELSON— Resumed 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I liave no independent recollection of that. 

]Mr. Sanders. Is this something that is impossible or possible and 
you just do not recall ? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, yes. It is possible. I do not question that the check 
was issued. I just say that I have no recollection of the transaction. 

Mr. Sanders. It is then said that you took the check with you and 
delivered it to Valentine. 

Now, if you had personally delivered a check to Valentine, I presume 
you would have some recollection of it. 

Mr. Nelson. I assume so, and I have no recollection of having de- 
livered it to him myself. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you think, then, that this is incorrect? 

Mr. Nelson. I think he is in error there as to how the transaction 
was handled. 

Mr. Sanders. Did you want to ask something Jim ? 

Mr. Haimtlton. This said, "I assumed delivered it to Valentine." 

Do you remember, instead of delivering it to Valentine, putting it in 
the mail ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. You see. the way any checks are handled, I would 
not have personally put them in the mail. And I have no recollection 
of having taken a check to Valentine at any time. So I assume the 

(6599) 



30-3:7 (book 15) O 



6600 

check was either taken by someone else or mailed, but I cannot tell 
you how it was actually delivered to Valentine. 

Mr. Gallman. There is a possibility that Dave took it. 

Mr. Nelson. There is. It is possible. It is possible that Mr. Parr 
took it. But I cannot tell you that he did, because I have no recollection 
of that particular check. 

Mr. Sanders. From your knowledge of the general operation of your 
association, would you think it more likely that a $25,000 check foij 
such purposes would have been personally delivered, as opposed to 
mailed? 

Mr. Nelson. It could have been either way. It just could have been 
either way. 

Mr. Sanders. All right. 

The next paragraph : 

At about the same time, Harold Nelson, Dave Parr, .Tack Chestnut, and possibly 
Tom Townsend and others met at the home of Hubert Humphrey in Waverly, 
Minn. Shortly after this meeting. Harold Nelson, Dave Parr, and Tom Townsend 
told me in San Antonio that we were committed to $140,000 to Hubert Humphrey 
and Wilbur Mills through Valentine and Associates, who were to print names 
and addresses of farmers in Iowa, $50,000; Kansas. $25,000; Oklahoma. $15,000; 
Minnesota, $45,000 ; Minnesota, $5,000, the last $5,000 to go to Hubert Humphrey 
from TAPE. 

Now, you indicated, I believe, to us yesterday that you have abso- 
lutely no recollection of ever being at the home of Humphrey in 
Waverly ? 

Mr. Nelson. Tliat is right. 

Mr. Sanders. In fact, that you can say that you have not been there. 
You would remember it if you had been there ? 

Mr. Nelson. I am certain I would, and I have no memory of ever 
being in Waverly, ]\Iinn., at any time. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you knoAv whether Parr ever met in Humphrey's 
home with any persons from the Humphrey campaign ? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot tell you when and so forth, but I know that 
Dave Pan- has told mo that he has been to Hubert Humphi-ey's home in 
Waverly, Minn. 

Mr. Sanders. Would you know the time frame on this? 

Mr. Nelson. No. What's in this paragraph ? I'm thinking it might 
help us. 

Mr. Sanders. The first paragraph said : "On July 19," and the sec- 
ond paragraph begins by saying : "At about the fsame time." 

Mr. Nelson, Right. Yes, I am just trying to — ^when I talk to this 
pilot I might be able to get something. 

Mr. Sanders. Can you put any time frame on Parr's presence in 
Humphrey's home? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Sanders. Would it be on more than one occasion, do you think? 

Mr. Nelson. I am under the impression that it was on more than 
one occasion. But I could be wrong about that. 

Parr on several occasions talked to me about the possibilitv of 
our going to Senator Humphrev's home, but we never did. As I told 
you, the only home was the one on the cam])us or close to the campus 
at Macalester CollP5re. I was there one time. 

Mr. Sanders. What was the context of Parr saying to you that 
3^ou might go to Humphrey's home? 



6601 

Mr. Nelson. Well, to participate in activities concerning the Hum- 
phrey campaign. 

Mr. Sanders. Following the lOTO senatorial campaign or during 
that time? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot tell you. 

In context, ais I recall, it was both during that time and following. 

Mr. Sanders. Did Parr ever tell you of a meeting he had with 
Chestnuts 

Mr. Nelson. T think lie has had more than one meeting with 
Chestnut. 

Ml'. Sanders. Do you remember any in particular? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I cannot pinpoint them. Chestnut would be present 
at any meetings Avhere we met with Senator Humphrey, to the best 
of my recollection. There may have been some in which he w^asn't 
present, but I would say he was generally there. 

Mr. Sanders. Did you ever learn that Townsend had been in Senator 
Humphrey's home ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. If he was at the time, they probably told me. But 
I do not recall anything about Townsend being in Senator Hum- 
phrey's home. The only one I really recall l)eing there is Parr. 

jNfr. Sanders. Townsend worked for Parr, would that be a correct 
description ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. Townsend, I believe during all of this 
period — ^there was a period when Townsend, I believe, w\as in San 
Antonio. But I believe d\iring this period Ave are talking about that 
Townsend was actually living in Little Kock and w^orking with Parr. 

]\Ir. Sanders. The paragraph continues to say that: "Shortly after 
the Waverely meeting. Nelson. Parr, and Townsend told me — Lilly — 
"that we were committed to $140,000 to Humphrey and Mills through 
Valentine and Associates." 

Do you recall making such a statement to Lilly? 

]Mr. Nelson. No, I do not. I think he w^as probably told that by 
Parr, and he just remembers it otherwise. I do not recall Mills being 
connected with this in any way. shape, or form. My recollection is that 
it started off as strictly a Hubert Humphrey matter. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you have a recollection of any decision to pay 
part of whatever you felt was your obligation to Humphrey from 
TAPE, and to pay the rest of it through — by use of AMPI funds — 
through Valentine and Associates? 

Mr. Nelson. No, that would be the .sort of thing that Lilly would 
keep track of. 

Mr. Hamilton. A^Hien Parr talked about meeting at Humphrey's 
home, did he mention that there was a tent put up on the lawn, a 
fundraiser? 

INIr. Nelson. No. the first I recall about a tent was when one of you 
mentioned a tent to me yesterday. 

Mr. Hamilton. T think it w^as me, but I just wondered now if you 
can recall that Parr said something about that. We know that there 
were certain AINIPI officials there. 

Mr. Nelson. It would be Parr who was there. There may have been 
somebody else, but I am sure that at any such thing where we w^ere 
represented Parr would be there, and he might have had one or two 



6602 

other people there. I do not believe that it was Lilly. He might have 
had Townsend because Townsend did go with him frequently. 

]\Ir. Hamilton. Would Parr have had the authority to commit 
AMPI to $140,000? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, Parr would have done it mihesitatingly. I can 
tell you that. There is a question about whether he actually had the 
authority or not. 

Isn't this the same money that we were talking about that — ^my 
recollection is that we agreed — in that car in Minneapolis? 

]Mr. Hamilton. There is some confusion there as to when that meet- 
ing in ]\Iinneapolis took place, and what the substance was. I don't 
want to hide the ball from you. Mr. Valentine has a different recollec- 
tion of that meeting, and he thinks it was at the tail end of your rela- 
tionship, rather than at the beginning. 

The meeting in Minneapolis was at the tail end rather than the 
beginning. 

Mr. Sanders. And his purpose in seeing you was to expedite pay- 
ment, rather than to enter into an agreement. 

Mr. Nelson. His recollection is that the agreement had already been 
entered into? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes. 

Mr. Nelson. That is not mine. I am sorry. 

Mr. Sanders. We are not offering that as the gospel truth. 

JNIr. Nelson. I'm telling you. I'm sorry. His memory may bo 
better than mine, but my recollection is that that is when this whole 
thing was discussed — it was not a long discussion. That this was a way 
to get this done, and I just do not think that it was ever discussed 
earlier. 

JNIr. Hamilton. Are you pretty firm in that recollection ? 

Mr. Nelson. I'll tell you what. I have been, during the course of all 
this I liave been going thi'ough. it becomes increasingly difficult for me 
to be firm in recollections, but that is the recollection I have of it. that 
that is when it took place. That is the only discussion I ever recall hav- 
ing had about this sort of thing. 

Mr. Hamilton. Do not get us wrong. Mr. Nelson. I think you have 
been rather fortliright in admitting that this proposition that you en- 
tered into, you now think was illegal. We do not think you are trying 
to duck anything. 

Mr. Nelson. I understand that. 

Mr. Hamilton. But these confusions in facts, we are just trying to 
work them out. 

Mr. Nelson. I understand that, and I want to say to you, I appre- 
ciate the whole tone and tenor, the way I have been treated yesterday 
and today. I want to make tliat clear. And I am trying to cooperate, 
and I do not like to dispute something when I do not have a concrete 
deal, but in my best recollection I do not believe I met Mr. Valentine 
on any other occasion. If you have some date or something when I 
was supposed to, it might help me recall. But I do not believe that I 
ever net liim before. 

Mr. Hamilton. I think that the account tliat we have — I do not want 
to go into it all, but I am not sure that we do liave you meeting with 
Valentine on any other occasion. But we do have Parr meeting at an 
earlier time. 



6603 

Mr. Nelsox. I think that is probably correct, because the impression 
that I had at tliat time was that Parr had seen him. 

Mr. Hamilton. But considei'ably before. 

Mr. Nelson. Well, that could be. 

Mr. Haimilton. Well. Don, do you want to move on from there? 

Mr. Sanders. I think that is all on that point. 

Mr. Xelson. And 1 am firm on this. It was in connection with some 
Humphrey meeting we attended there, and I think I can find out from 
this pilot. 

Mv. Hamilton . Well, that is agreed. I want to ask you about AMPI's 
relationship with Wilbur Mills. 

Mr. Xelson. All right. 

Mr. Hamilton. And I guess maybe we should start this the same 
way that we started the Valentine, Sherman business yesterday, just 
let you tell us what you know about AMPI's support for Mills, either 
in terms of contributions from TAPE or SPACE, from AMPI, on 
terms of services rendered for Mills by AMPI, or anything of that 
nature, bills paid for ^fills and so forth. 

Mr. Xelson. Well, first, just a little background on the situation. 
Chairman Mills is probably the most knowledgeable man in Washing- 
ton when it comes to milk marketing problems. I am talking about 
Federal milk orders. They are very technical things and take a lot of 
expertise. It fits his general intellectual bent and so forth, and he has 
devoted a lot of time to it because he has a lot of dairy farmers in his 
district. And I would say when it came to that sort of thing, he could — 
well, he would know more than a Secretary of Agriculture about the 
niceties of the Federal orders and so forth, and he was full of the sub- 
ject. And he performed a yeoman's service, not just on AMPI, but for 
all dairymen when it came to putting forth their position. 

So they were all very favorably disposed. In other words, Wilbur 
Mills is the man who has a great constituency among dairy farmers 
generally. There is no question about that. 

Xow, insofar as I know — you understand, this Mills Presidential 
campaign thing really got rolling after I was no longer general man- 
ager, so I cannot tell you about TAPE funds that went to Wilbur 
Mills, or I am not aware of any bills that were paid for Wilbur Mills. 

Xow, a short time after I left, it was brought to my attention that 
we had two people who — a man and a secretary — who had an apart- 
ment in Washington, and had had an apartment since within, say, 60 
days of my leaving. 

^Ir. Gallman. It was two apariinents. 

Mr. Xelson. Yes. I do not want to make it sound like a clandestine 
affair. There were two apartments, and they were devoting a substan- 
tial time, if not all of their efforts, to try to generate support for Mills' 
campaign. 

Xow, I want to say this. I was not consulted about that. That was 
done at the instance of Mr. Parr. I do not want to te misunderstood on 
this. I will be candid to you. I think the dairymen of this country owed 
that guy everything they could do for him, and had I been consulted 
at that time in the content of the situation then, I would have unhesi- 
tatingly approved it. But it was just something that I did not know 
about. 



6604 

Now with that, I will be glad to answer any questions you want to 
ask me about anything. 

Mr. Hamilton. What were these people's names ? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot give you the girl's name. The man's name was 
Joe Johnson. 

Mr. Hamilton. And he was on the AMPI payroll ? 

Mr. Nelson. He was on the AMPI payroll at that thne. 

Mr. Hamilton. Do you know where he is now ? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I do not know where he is right now. 

Mr. Hamilton. With whom in the Mills staff was this arrange- 
ment worked out? 

INIr. Nelson. I do not know. I do not know that it was actually any- 
bodj^ on the Mills staff. I do not know that the chairman even knew 
of the situation, I am inclined to think that it was with somebody 
connected with the campaign. I tell you frankly, I think if the chair- 
man would have known it, he would have said, don't do it. 

Mr. Haiviilton. You make a distinction between the campaign staff 
and the Hill staff? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hamilton. But this thing was arranged by Parr ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hamilton. Now, in 1971 are you aware of AMPT's paying for 
some farm rallies that were held for Mills ? 

Mr. Sanders. Jim, before we leave the Washington sequence, let me 
ask some questions about that. You are apparently going on to some- 
thing else. 

Did you have direct conversation with Parr about the persons work- 
ing in Washington? 

Mr. Nelson. The conversations I had, I had witli — Dr. Mehren is 
the one who told me about it. You know, I do not remember whether 
I did because at that time I was no longer general manager, and I did 
have a few conversations with Parr after that. But I do not know that 
I ever really discussed that with him. 

Mr. Gallman. You confirmed it with Joe. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes; but he is asking me about Parr now. 

Mr. Sanders. You have confirmed it with Joe Johnson after you 
left AMPI ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Sanders. For what purpose? 

Mr. Nelson. For determining the facts. 

INIr. Sanders. And under what circumstances did you talk Avith 
him — by telephone? 

JNIr. Nelson. T talked to him personally about it. 

:Mr. Sanders. ^Yliere ? 

Mr. Nelson. I talked to him in San Antonio. 

Mr. S \NDERS. Was he called back there for this purpose? 

INIr. Nelson. He came back there to tell them — I do not recall 
whether he was called back or whether he voluntarily went back to 
tell them that he was going to quit because — you would have to get 
him to tell you about the conversation. He told me. but I do not re'- 
member. He had a conversation with Dr. INIehren and it was indicated 
that Dr. Mehren did not want to continue that arrangement, and he 



6605 

told me that in that event he wonld resign because he wanted to work 
on this thing for INIills. I think it was an amicable separation. 

Mr. Saxders. Could you give me an approximation of how long after 
you left AMPI this occurred ? 

ISIr. Nelsox. This is an absolute approximation. I want to make that 
clear. But I would say 2 or 3 weeks. 

Mv. Saxders. I do have documentation from AMPI showing that 
Johnson was discontinued as of the end of January 1972. 

Mr. Nelsox. That would be within 2 weeks. 

Mr. Saxders. Could you provide me with some more details of what 
Johnson told you of his work in Washington, or the arrangement by 
which he came to be doing it? 

Mr. Nelsox. As I understand it, it is a thing that evolved out of 
Johnson's starting out doing a little, and gradually doing more. He is 
a very capable fellow, the kind of guy that responsibilities flow to, and 
it was just a thing that evolved to the point to where he would not be 
doing anything but that. 

]\Ir. Saxders. Toward the end of his employment with AMPI, 
would he have been under the supervision of Mr. Parr? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. I will tell you what. If this is real important to 
you, I would have to check it. He initially was under the supervision 
of I\Ir. Parr, and then for a time he was in another division, and then 
as I recall he went back with Mr. Parr. But at the time he was doing 
this he was under jNIr. Parr's supervision. 

IMr. Saxders. It would be highly unlikely that Johnson would have 
been doing this work in Washington for Mills without the knowledge 
of Parr? 

Mr. Nelsox. I adopt your phraseology. 

Mr. Saxders. In your conversation with Johnson in San Antonio, 
did he tell you of approval by Parr or involvement by Parr in his ac- 
tivities in Washington? That is. that Parr was involved in Johnson 
working into this arrangement? 

Mr. Nelsox. Oh, yes. That is no — I would view that as an undisputed 
fact. 

Mr. Saxders. You might say that from your knowledge of Parr 
and Johnson but I am wanting to know whether you recall whether 
Johnson actually articulated this to you ? 

Mr. Nelsox. You mean that Mr. Parr knew and that he did this at 
his instance and request ? 

Mr. Saxders. Yes. 

]\Ir. Nelsox. That is not his phraseology, but that is the sense of 
what he told me. 

Mr. Saxders. All right. 

Did vou get some idea of how long it had been continuing ? 

Mr. Nelsox^ Yes. My understanding is that it was from November, 
the preceding November. 

Mr. Haimtltox'. In other words, 3 months ? 

Mr. Saxders. It could be November. December, and January pos- 
sibly. 

Mr. Nelsox*. I do not know what time in November. 

Mr. Saxders. Could the other pei'son be Terry Shea? 

ISTr. Nelsox". It was a girl, a secretary. 

Mr. Saxders. Is Terry Shea a male ? 



6606 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you laiow whether Terry Shea was also working in 
Washington for Mills? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes; I know that he worked for Mills. But I cannot 
tell you when. You see, I am under the impression that it was after this 
time. It may have been contemporaneously. 

Mr. Sanders. Are you saying that you have no knowledge that Terry 
Shea worked for Mills before he was terminated from the AMPI pay- 
roll? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not even know when he was terminated, to tell you 
the truth. 

Mr. Sanders. He was terminated in January. 

]\Ir. Nelson. At the same time. Well, Mr. Johnson could tell you. I 
cannot tell you. 

Mr. Sanders. In your conversation with Johnson, did he mention 
any work of Shea for Mills ? 

ISIr. Nelson. I do not have an independent recollection of that, but 
I do know that Shea was doing some work. And that is what I say. I 
cannot tell you at what period of time Shea was doing this. 

Mr. Sanders. Under whose supervision would Shea have worked in 
AMPI at the end of 1971 ? 

INIr. Nelson. I will tell you. I never did really know Shea. I knew 
who he was. I could point him out. I do not recall whose division he 
was in. 

INIr. Sanders. It is your understanding that in addition to Johnson 
and Sliea there was also a secretary here in Washington ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Sanders. Do vou think the secretary was under Parr's super- 
vision at AMPI? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, she was from the Arkansas division. I don't re- 
call her name, do you ? 

Mr. Gallman. I think it was Marie something, wasn't it? She 
woidflivt have been Parr's secretaiw ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not think so — she may have. 

Mr. Gali>man. She had been a longtime emplovee, I remember. 

1^1'r. Nelson. Yes. T would know her name if I heard it, see. but 

Mr. Sanders. Does the first name "Marie" sound right to you ? 

Mr. Nelson. It may be that, but it is not ringing a bell with me right 
now. 

Mr. Sanders. You learned then that in addition to these employees 
working for INfills while on the AMPI payroll — let me ask you also. 
Is it your undorstandinc; that durinor the tail end of 1971 and the 
first part of 1972 they were workinfif fulltime for IMills, or virtually 
fulltime wliile on the'AlSrPI payroll? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not want to say that they did not do other things, 
but substantially that is what thev were doing. 

Mr. Sanders. Then you learned that AMPI was paying for apart- 
ments they had in Washington? 

Mr. Nelson. On the theory that it was cheaper to have an apartment 
than to pay hotel rooms. 

Mr. Sanders. Did vou ever learn that AMPI was paying for Mills' 
office space in Washington — campaign offices space? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. 



6607 

Mr. Sanders. Do you Imvo any kiiowledo;e of AMPI payments for 
any other jNIills expenses in Washington ? 

^Ir. Xelsox. No, sir. 

INIr. HAMir/roN. Well, I was groing to ask you about some rallies, farm 
rallies that were held for Mills in 1971. 1 do not know where these were. 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, I will tell you what. I do not know precisely to 
Avhat you are i-eferring. I tliink I know. They have been called Mills 
farm rally, a big meeting in Iowa. But that was not a Mills rally. Mills 
spoke because we asked him to at this rally, but there were a lot of 
other — I cannot tell you avIio, but there were a lot of other elected 
people there. And the idea was to make a big show of farm strength 
at this meeting, and thei-e were a lot of other organizations involved 
besides AMPI in getting this group together. I cannot tell you now. 
I can find out Avho all worked in this effort, but it was— that is the 
only rally as such that I recall. 

]\Ir. Hamilton. How about one in Arkansas? 

Mr. Sanders. I am going to ask a few more about Iowa, if you are 
going on. 

Mr. Hamilton. Well, OK. I was going to come back to that, but go 
ahead. 

Mr. Sanders I do have some documents from AMPI concerning the 
Iowa rallies which were given to an accountant to schedule. I do not 
have them with me this morning, but I do recall that they relate to a 
rally in Ames on October 2, 1971. 

Mr. Xelson. That would be the one that T am talking about. 

Mr. Sanders. And it seemed to me that there were invoices for ex- 
penses of transportation from various points in Iowa. 

Mr. NeIvSON. Farmers [nods in the affirmative]. 

]Mr. Sanders. And you think that this rally on that occasion was not 
specifically for the benefit of Wilbur Mills? 

]Mr. Nelson. That is right. That is right. And I will tell you frank- 
ly, in that, I think that is a proper expenditure of AMPI funds, to get 
those farmers to that rally. 

]Mr. Sanders. You say other persons spoke? 

Mr. Nelson. I say other elected officials were there. I could not tell 
you who all was there, but there was an effort made to sret as broad a 
spectrum as possible at that meeting. I think you will find that there 
were both Republicans and Democrats there. I do not think it was a 
partisan 

]\Tr. Sanders. It was a show of dairy strength ? 

^Ir. Nelson. Not only dairy, but others. It was not strictly dairy. 

INIr. Sanders. Were you present at the rally ? 

IVIr. Nelson. No, T don't believe so. As a matter of fact. I believe we 
had a board meeting the same day. and I believe the board meeting was 
in Wisconsin. That is just my memory. T have not checked any records. 

ISIr. Sanders. Do you know whether Parr attended? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe he did. I believe Parr attended. 

Mr. Hamilton. Are vou asking about the rally or the board meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. T am talkino: about the rally. 

Mr. Sanders. That is what I am talking about. Since Mills was there, 
I Avondered if Parr mi.eht have been there? 

Mr. Nelson. I am sure that Parr was at the rally. That is my recol- 
lection of it. 



6608 

Mr. Sanders. Whose idea was it to hold this rally ? 

Mr. Nelson. I would say it was Parr's. He gets maligned a lot, but 
he is a very creative guy, and I would say that it was conceived by him. 

He also had the idea of trying to fill a football stadium with farm- 
ers, which actually sounds wild, but it's not such a bad idea. He just 
never did get around to getting it done. 

Mr. Sanders. You do not know of any other Iowa rallies which were 
addressed by Mills, other than the one that we have just mentioned ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not believe so. 

Mr. Hamilton. Well, let me stay on the Iowa rallies. 

Wlio gave you your account of the rally ? 

Was it Parr? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall. I will tell you, it was probably Parr, 
and it was probably Johnson, and that would be about it. 

Mr. Hamilton. Was Mills the only speaker ? 

Mr. Nelson. I am not sure. I believe maybe — you see, I do not re- 
member much about this rally. I think that probably the Governor 
spoke too. I do not know. It seems to me that there were some — a lot 
of things happen when you start setting up things like this, and I 
think as I recall, there was a football game that day too, w^hich did 
not do a lot for attendance. They had a big rally, as I recall. But foot- 
ball weekend is a bad weekend to have rallies, as far as attendance is 
concerned. I cannot tell you who the speakers were. Mills would be 
the — he was the top luminary tliere, if you want to put it that way. 

Mr. Hamilton. Do you know if there were any placards or signs 
around, "Mills for President"? 

Mr. Nelson. If there were it was not reported to me. 

Mr. Hamilton. I take it then, that to your knowledge AMPI did not 
organize the preparation of signs ? 

Mr. Nelson. Of Mills for President? Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Hamilton. Plow much money did you spend on this, do you 
know? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall. As I recall, it was a large amount of 
money. 

Mr. Hamilton. Are you thinking of $25,000 ? 

Mr. Nelson. I was thinking more than that. 

Mr. Hamilton. How much were you thinking? 

Mr. Nelson. I was thinking of as much as $100,000. I don't know, 
but it's iust in the back of my mind. I was thinking that. 

Mr. Hamilton, How many people attended? 

Mr. Nelson. T do not know. Several thousand as T recall. 

Mr. Hamilton. How manv were you shooting for ? 

Mr. Net>son, We always shot for more than we got — I would say if 
there were 10,000 there, we were prolinbly shooting for 20.000.^ 

Mr. Hamh^ton. It would cost you $10 a head. Was any publicity put 
out — nnv fliers or anvthin.o;? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't know about those details, but T am sure the main 
effort made to get people to a rally like that would be made through 
farm orp-anizations, getting them to notify their memberships, send 
their people out. 

Mr. HamiIvTON. What was the purpose of the rally ? 

Mr. Nelson. The purpose of the rnllv wns to get farmers to come, 
and to get them to start participating in political efforts, show strength. 



6609 

Mr. Hamilton. But most rallies have a theme, either you want some- 
thing or you want to support somebody. 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know what the theme of the thing was. I do 
not recall. 

jMr. Hamilton. But the theme, according to you, was not "T^t's 
select Wilbur Mills"'? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not thijik so. T would toll you this much, if it were, 
I would be greatly surprised. It is not my recollection of that. 

Mr. Sanders. Was it your understanding that Parr was an early sup- 
porter of the idea of ^lills for President ? 

Mr. Nelson. I think there Avould be no question about that. 

Mr. Sanders. And might not it be possible that at the beginning of 
October of 1071, the idea in Parr's mind for developing support for 
Mills for President might have been w^orking already, and that he 
might have conceived this rallv as something to give greater exposure 
to Wilbur Mills? 

Mv. Nelson. That is a j^ossible hypothesis. 

]\Ir. Sanders. I recognize that it is just a hypothesis, and 3;ou do not 
know any facts to boar on it. 

]Mr. Ha^iilton. Do you have any other facts about this rally ? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; because I did not attend the thing. 

Mr. Hamilton. Did you apj^rove the expenditures? 

Mr. Nelson. I approved going ahead with the project, if that is what 
you mean. 

Mr. Hamilton. I am still a little confused about tho theme. I do not 
undoi-stand why you had a rally unless you Avanted to show support 
for higher milk support prices or- 

Mr. Nelson. It was generally for farmers. I recall it was not limited 
to dairy, it was broader than dairy. It was agricultural, but it was not^ — 
it was broadoT than dairy, as I recall, it was the whole broad spec- 
trum of agriculture. 

Mr, Hamilton. How long did it last? Was that a whole day thing? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I do not believe so. To my recollection, it was a 2 
or a 3 hour thing. 

Mr. Hamilton. Was food served, drinks? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall. I do not remember that. 

Mr, Hamilton. What kind of hall was it in, do you remember that, 
or was it out in the 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know. 

Mr. Hamilton, I w^ould take it, October in Iowa, it would have been 
pretty chilly. 

Mr. Nelson. I^nloss it was a football field, it would have had to have 
been in some fioldhonso or something like that, a coliseum or something 
of this sort. I do not know that much about it. I probably know at the 
time. 

Mr. Haimilton. Well, do vou know about anv other rallies that were 
paid for by A:MPI that Mills attended ? 

Was there one in Arkansas ? 

Mr. Nelson. There would be — I am sure there were a lot of rallies, 
yon know, in Arkansas. I cannot give you any specifics about Arkansas 
rallies. 

Mr. Hamilton. Would AMPI hold or sponsor rallies on a frequent 
basis ? 



6610 

Mr. Nelson. I would not say on a frequent basis, no. 

Mr. Hamilton. How often ? 

Mr. Nelson. I really cannot tell you. You would have to ask the 
people from Arkansas, if they were going to have a rally 

Mr. Hamilton. No ; I mean generally. 

Mr. Nelson. Grenerally ? No. 

Mr. Hamilton. Rallies anywhere in the country ? 

Mr. Nelson. [Nods negatively.] 

Mr. Hamilton. Would a rally in Arkansas be sponsored by the na- 
tional office of AMPI, or by local offices ? 

Mr. Nelson. It would be a local thing ? 

Mr. Hamilton. Funded nationally, or funded locally? 

Mr.' Nelson. Anything out of AMPI — it appears to be a question 
of easy answer, but it is not necessarily, because actually AMPI is a 
monolith, so to sj)eak. It is not broken down other than for pooling 
purposes on milk, and so forth. 

So I would say that if it was the national offices it would ultimately 
come from, even though they miglit have been paid locally. Now, an 
accountant might put a different construction on it, that would be my 
view. 

Mr. Hamilton, Well, do you remember any specific rallies in Ar- 
kansas, which Mills attended ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I do not remember specific rallies. You can get all 
that from their records, but I just cannot give it to you. 

Mr. Hamilton. How about any specific rallies in other States be- 
sides Arkansas and Iowa ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, we had a banquet, I recall, for Page Belcher in 
Dallas. 

Mr. Hamilton. Page Belcher being whom ? 

Mr. Nelson. He was the ranking minority member of the House 
Agricultural Committeo. 

Mr. Hamilton. And Mills attended that ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, he attended. Now, wait a minute. Do not put it 
down. I think he attended it. 

Mr. Hamilton. But the way you describe it, this in no way was a 
rallv to support Mills' Presidency ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Another one I recall, there was n bnnquet, and T believe it was Law- 
ton, Okla., for Sam Steed, and AMPI was lanrelv instrumental, and 
there were others involved to honor Congressman Steed. And Mr. Mills 
went to that. 

Mr. PIamtlton. Is it correct to say that Parr was the man who usual- 
ly sponsored things of this type, sponsored, dreamed them up and 
planned them ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hamilton. And he would be our best source on various things 
done for Mills, and various things that Mills participated in? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir: Mills or anybody else. 

Mr. Hamilton. Do you have any more questions ? 

Mr. Sandeks. About Mills yes. but^ 

Mr. Hamilton. I mean about farm rallies? 

Mr. Sanders. [Nods negatively.] 



6611 

Mr. Hamilton". Well, to change the subject, still on Mills, but to 
change the subject from rallies, do you know of any employee contribu- 
tions of AjSIPI employees that -were solicited for Mills? 

Mr. Nelson. I know that INIr. Parr, and he is the best source of in- 
formation on this, too : but I know that he did report to me that em- 
ployees were wanting to do this sort o'' thing. And I told him that any 
employee who wanted to do it could do it, but that it should be made 
explicitly clear to the employees that it was something they could do 
of their own volition ; and not because of any predilections we might 
have had concerning that. I made it abundantly clear to him. 

Mr. Hamilton. Did he, in fact, solicit employee contributions? 

Mr. Xelson. Yes, but I cannot give you the specifics of it. 

Mr. Hamilton. Do you know how much he solicited ? 

Mr. Xelson. No, this was brought to my attention, as I recall, in 
early January about 1 or 2 weeks before I was no longer general 
manager. 

Mr. Hamilton. "Well, by that time, had the solicitations already, 
taken place, or were they taking place ? 

Mr. Xelson. I think taking place is the best word. 

Mr. Hamilton. Was there any type of organized employee cam- 
paign ? In other words, was there any employee-wide canvas, any ma- 
terial, leaflets sent out ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I do not belicA'e so. I think it was more a phone 
call, or a personal approach sort of thing. I do not believe there were 
any 

iSIr. Hamilton. Was this solicitation of AMPI employees on a na- 
tional basis ? Is that what he was talkinjr about ? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall, and I could be a little confused on this, as 
I recall what he was doing was calling key employees of AMPI. 

Mr. Hamilton. So, he was talking to a person, calling them per- 
sonally ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is my recollection. 

Mr. Hamilton. What is your understanding as to the number of em- 
ployees he talked to ? 

Mr. Nelson. As I say, it was my understanding that he was talking 
to the key employees. It might have been one dozen, two dozen, or it 
might have l3een more. 

Mr. Hamilton. Did any of these employees ever complain to you? 

Mr. Nelson. No. they did not. I do not recall any employee ever 
complaining. 

Mr. Hamilton. Had AMPI conducted this kind of employee solici- 
tation previouslv for other candidates? 

Mr. Nelson. Not to my knowledge ; I do not recall any. 

Mr. Hamilton. Now some AMPI employees had contributed to 
other candidates. 

Mr. Nekson. I am sure they had. 

Mr. Hamllton. In the 1968 or 1970 campaign, was there any orga- 
nized emplovee solicitation of contributions? 

Mr. Nelson. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Hamilton. So this was a new practice among AMPI members. 
What I am getting at is — I take it there was no pattern in AMPI 
that would lead emplovees to believe that when the management so- 
licited contributions they had better give or else ? 



6612 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir ; there surely was not. Now, I say on my part ; 
you have to understand that Mr. Parr is a pretty forceful character, 
and I do not know what he might have said to these people. 

Mr. Hamilton. You have said he is the best source of information. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you have any concept of how much lie might have 
collected in this campaign ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Sanders. Would you suspect that he would have contacted all 
regional managers? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, most all ; if not all. 

Mr. Sanders. And key home office personnel ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Sanders. Down to what level, do you think ? 

Mr. NeIvSon. It is hard to define the level. I would say clown to di- 
vision manager level. Now, I do not know that he contacted all of 
these. That is just speculation on my part about how far down he 
went. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you have knowledge of any corporate funds of 
AMPI being furnished in the form of cash to ]NIills or to anv persons 
for Mills? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. 

Mr. Sanders. Do vou have any recollection of telling Bob Lillv in 
August of 1971, to giVe $5,000 to Parr for Mills ? 

Mr. Nelson. No; I do not remember that. I want to say this, if 
Lilly said that I did it, I am perfectly willing to accept the fact that 
I did, if Lilly said that I did. But I do not remember that. 

Mr. Sanders. Well, I want to read you from notes Avhich were fur- 
nished to us by Lilly, which are to the effect of what I have already 
asked you : 

On August 17, 1971, Harold Nelson, in the presence of Robert Isham, told me 
to get $5,000 to Mr. Dave Parr, AMPI employee in Little Rock, Arkansas, for 
Wilbur Mills. 

I was instructed to deliver it to Parr personally. On August 17, 1971. I went to 
Austin in the company jet, borrowed $10,000. and delivered the $.5,000 to Little 
Rock, Arkansas, to Dave Parr's secretary. Norma Kirk or Eunice Hunt. 

Does that helj:) to refresh your memory ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, T do not remember, but if Lilly said that T did, I 
accept the fact that I did. 

Mr. HAiNtTLTON. Do you say that because you think Lilly is generally 
a man of his word ? 

ISIr. Nelson. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Hamilton. IMaybe T picked up something in the tone of your 
voice, that mavbe is not there; but were you implying that Parr is 
not a man of his word ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I would I'ust put it this wav. I would have much 
more confidence in Mr. Lilly's recitation of the facts, and as he re- 
calls them, than I would of 

Mr. Hamilton. T do not mean to put you on the spot, but we ob- 
viously have credibility to deal with, and we have to make decisions 
about them. 

Mr. Nelson. I would rely on INfr. Lilly's memory of the fact. 

Mr. LTamtlton. You say you would rely on his veracity. Would you 
rely on his memory as well ? 



6613 

Mr. Xelsox. I would say irenerall3\ He is subject to human frailties 
as all of us are, but I would say generally yes. 

Mr. Hamtltox. That is all I have on that. 

INIr. Sanders. "We have some information on another instance of 
$5,000 being delivered to Parr for Mills by Jacobsen in the presence 
of Lilly. Do you have any knowledge of that transaction ? 

Mr. Nelson. Of $5,000 being delivered to Parr by Jacobsen? 

Mr. Sanders. Yes. 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I do not recall. 

Mr. Sanders. Or any sum of money by Jacobsen for Mills? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I do not recall that. 

I\Ir. Sanders. Well, during the entire time of 1969 through 1972, at 
any time were you aware of corporate funds being made available in 
the form of currency for Mills ? 

Mr. Nelson. No; I do not recall any corporate funds being made 
available for ]\Iills, but as I say, I would rely upon Lilly's recollection 
of it. 

Mr. Sanders. I think that is all I have on Mills. 

Mr. Hamilton. Did the prosecutors ask you about any Mills' trans- 
actions? 

^Ir. Nelson. I do not believe they did ; if they did, it was so cursory, 
that I do not recall it. I do not believe that they asked me. 

Mr. Hamilton. Can you think of any information regarding Mr. 
Mills of the character that we are looking for? I am sure you know 
what Ave are looking for. 

Mr. Nelson. I would say the one to talk to about it is Parr. 

Mr. Hamilton. But you have no personal, even hearsay, knowledge 
of information relating to Mills of this character ? 

ISIr. Nelson. No; nothing other than what you have talked to me 
about. If I talked to Lilly, he could tell me more of the circumstances 
and so forth, and I probably would recall a lot more. But Lilly is the 
man who would give you the accurate information. 

Mr. Sanders. Did the Special Prosecutor ask you questions concern- 
ing Valentine, Sherman Associates? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hamilton. We talked about that yesterday. 

I think we can go off the record. 

Mr. Sanders. Let us go off the record. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. DoRSEN. Mr. Nelson, directing your attention to other contribu- 
tions to Democratic Presidential candidates, whether from AMPI 
funds or TAPE funds, are you aware of any such contributions that 
you have not testified to either yesterday or today ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. Contributions were made to — let me ask you this. 
What period of time are vou talking about ? 

Mr. DoRSEN. I am talking about late 1968, 1969, 1970. 1971, and 1972, 
all of those periods for Democratic Presidential candidates. 

Mr. NEr>>0N. Gooi^ge Wallace. 

Mr. DoRSEN. T^et us take Mr. Wallace then. "Wliat is your knowledge 
and understanding of contributions made by AMPI or TAPE to Mr. 
Wallace's Presidential campaign? 

Mr. Nei.son. I believe there were TAPE funds, I am not certain of 
that, but there were contributions made to Mr. Wallace's campaign. 



6614 

Mr. DoRSEN. And how did these contributions come about? 

Mr. Nelson. The contributions came about because we had members, 
particularly in Tennessee, and as I recall, also some in east Texas as 
well as Arkansas who were strong advocates of Mr. AVallace. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Were AMPI or TAPE funds solicited by Mr. Wal- 
lace's campaign, or did the initiative come from AMPI or TAPE ? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot tell you that. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Do you know who, at Mr. Wallace's headquarters, or 
at Mr. Wallace's campaign, was the contact point for contril)utions ? 

Mr. Nelson. No; I was not personally contacted on this, so I would 
not know. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Who would have the knowledge? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Parr. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Did you have any discussions with Mr. Parr or Mr. 
Lilly concerning these contributions? 

Mr. Nelson. I knew^ that there were some made; that is about as 
much as I remember about that. I believe they were with Mr. Parr. 
I do not believe they were with Mr. Lilly. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Do you liave any recollection of the time or amounts of 
these contributions ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Did you authorize these contributions to be made? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall, tliese contributions were made at the in- 
stance of some division board member from Tennessee and Mississippi, 
and I cannot recall his name. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Is it your understanding, however, that these were 
TAPE funds that were withdrawn, that were paid from the TAPE 
accounts, and were reported in the ordinary course of TAPE'S re- 
ports? 

Mr. Nelson. I am not certain that they were. I think that they were, 
but I am not certain that they were TAPE funds. 

Mr, DoRSEN. What other sources could the money have come from? 

Mr. Nelson. They could have come from corporate funds, or from 
individual checks written by dairy farmer members who wanted to 
support him. 

Mr. Dorsen. Do you have any knowledge of any source that would 
provide us with leads as to how we could trace any funds other than 
TAPE funds that might have been contributed ? 

Mr, Nelson. Mr, Lilly could give you those. 

Mr. Dorsen. Are you testifying that you have no personal laiowl- 
edge? 

Mr. Nelson, I have no personal knowledge about how it was done. 

Mr. Dorsen. Do you have any information that you liave not given 
us concerning contributions tliat might have been made to ]\Ir. Wal- 
lace's campaign ? 

Mr. Nelson. No; I am telling you all I know about it. 

Mr. Sanders. T^t mo ask one question, if you are going to leave 
Wallace. 

Mr. Dorsen. Cei'tainly. 

Mr. Sanders. I do not want to flog this thing, but are you saying 
that there is a possibility that some corporate funds were made avail- 
able to Wallace ? 



6615 

Mr. Nelson. That is a possibility. It it not my impression, or pres- 
ent recollection, but it is possible. Yes. 

ISfr. Saxders. Yon are awai-e, of course, of the system by which a 
nunil)er of attorneys and consultants were making funds available 
to Lilly to pay off the loans ho had used to make the payment to 
Kalmbach. 

Are you aware of any similar system of using attorneys or consult- 
ants as conduits to provide funds for the Wallace campaign? 

Mv. Xelsox. No, as I say, -I am not, but I say that it is entirely 
possible that it did happen. 

j\Ir. Sanders. OK. 

Mr. Dorsen. Is there any other Deniocratic candidate to whom 
A^NIPI or TAPE made contributions in connection with the 1972 Pres- 
idential campaign about which you have not testified ? 

Mr. Xelson. I am not certain about this, but I believe Senator 
Muskie. 

Mr. DoRSEN. ^Aliat is your recollection of contributions that might 
have been made to Senator Muskie's campaign ? 

INIr. Nelson. Just that we were supporting Muskie. I do not recall 
the details. 

]Mr. DoRSEN. Were you personally in touch with anyone from Mr. 
Muskie's campaigni? 

Mv. Nelson. Senator ^Nluskie appeared at our annual meeting and 
spoke in 1970. I do not recall — he appeared and spoke. He opened his 
previous campaign in front of the Alamo in San Antonio. I cannot — 
I do not recall the names of his people. 

ISIr. DoRSEN. And did you at that meeting or at any other time per- 
sonally have a conversation with Mv. INIuskie concerning campaign 
contributions or support? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Do you know whether any other official of AMPI or 
TAPE at that meeting, or at any other time, personally had a con- 
versation with ]Mr. jSIuskie concerning campaign contributions or 
support ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not believe so. 

ISIr. Dorsen. Do vou know who in Mr. INIuskie's campaign was in 
contact with A]VIPI or TAPE ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. I do not. I do not remember their names. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Do you know who at AMPI or TAPE w\as the person 
who was in contact or Avas contacted by Mr. Muskie's campaign? 

Mr. Nelson. I think that would be Mr. Parr ; possibly Mr. Lilly, but 
probably INIr. Parr. 

INIr. DoRSEN. Do you have any personal knowledge, and I include 
hearsay statements that may have been made to you, of a contribution 
that may have been made to Mr. Muskie's campaign, other than the 
possibility that such a contribution was made? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I can tell you nothing specific. I am under the im- 
pression that a contribution was made. 

]\rr. DoRSEN. And do you have any reason to believe that any contri- 
bution that may have been made to Mr. Muskie's campaign came from 
AMPI corporate funds rather than TAPE funds that were duly 
reported ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, but it is possible. 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 16 



6616 

Mr. DoRSEN. And to repeat Mr. Sanders' question, were you aware, 
or do you have any information concerning any conduit system or 
other device that may have been used to funnel funds to Mr. Muskie's 
Presidential campaign ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, other than the system that is described by Mr. 
Sanders. 

Mr. Sanders. Did you ever learn that Stuart Russell had been used 
as a conduit for providing funds to Muskie ? 

Mr. Nelson. Not explicitly for Muskie, no. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Do you loiow whether Stuart Russell personally made 
a contribution to Mr. Muskie's campaign? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I do not. 

Mr. Dorsen. Do you know whether he was ever asked by any official 
of AMPI or TAPE to make a contribution to Mr. Muskie's campaign ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall knowing that. 

Mr. Sanders. You were asked if you had any personal contact with 
Senator Muskie. Did you have any personal contact with any key per- 
sons in his Presidential campaign ? 

Mr. Nelson. As I say, if I did, I do not recall it. I do not even re- 
call the names of the key people in his campaign. If I were given a 
name, I might recall it. I really do not think that they did. 

Mr. DoRSEN. Are there any other campaigns to which AINIPI or 
TAPE may have made a contribution in connection with the 1972 
Presidential race about which you have not testified ? 

Mr. Nelson. Do you want to go off the record just a minute? 

Mr. Dorsen. ok. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Dorsen. Mr. Nelson, are you aware of any other contributions 
of AMPI or TAPE in connection with the 1972 Presidential cam- 
paign ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall any. 

Mr. Dorsen. To the best of your knowledge or infomiation, are you 
aware of any contributions other than the ones to which you have tes- 
tified to, to a 1972 Presidential candidate that came from funds other 
than TAPE funds that were duly reported on TAPE's reports? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Dorsen. I have no further questions along this line. 

Mr. Nelson. Let me explain; you see, most of this 1972 campaign 
money would have been put in after I was no longer general manager, 
and I have no knowledge of any of that. 

Mr. Sanders. Yesterday, you told us that AMPI was interested in 
opening doore with the Republican administration, and in countering 
the image you had acquired as being a Democratic organization, and 
having supported a Democratic candidate or candidates in the 1968 
election. 

I presume, or I believe you did say that AMPI liad supported Sena- 
tor Humphrey's Presidential race in 1968. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Sanders. Did you say that ? I believe you said that. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. sir. I said that. 

Mr. Sanders. Financially supported him ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 



6617 

Mr. Sanders. And this would have been at a time when TAPE was 
not in existence? 

Mr. Nelsox. That is right. 

Mr. Saxders. At a time in which you had no means by which your 
organization could make legal contributions to a Presidential 
candidate ? 

Mr. Xelsox. [Nods affirmatively.] Prior to the existence of TAPE. 

Mr. Saxders. Sir? 

Mr. Nelsox. That was prior to the existence of TAPE. 

Mr. Saxders. .Vnd at a time w^hen you had no other means of making 
legal contributions to a Presidential candidate? 

Mr. Nelsox. [Nods affirmatively.] 

Mr. Saxders. May the record show that Mr. Nelson is nodding as- 
sent to the question. 

Mr. Nelsox. I thought I testified to that yesterday. 

Mr. Gallmax. You did. 

Mr. Saxders. But probably not in as much detail to this. 

Mr. Hamiltox. I am sure this is a repetitive question, not from me 
but from somebody. ^Mien was TAPE established ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I cannot give you the exact date, but in 1969. 

Mr. Saxders. It was in September 1969, 1 believe. 

Mr. DoRSEX. Off the record. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Nelson, I would like to return to the period of 
Marcli 1971. in connection with the milk price-support decision. 

Now, I believe you said yesterday that Mr. Jacobsen was in contact 
with Mr. Connally for AIMPI during this period ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know of anyone else who talked to Mr. Connally 
during that period relative to price supports or anyone else at AMPI ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Are you talkino: about March 1971 ? 

Mr. Weitz. February and March 1971, yes. 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, now I do not know. Are you referring to — ^the 
only one I know is Mr. Lilly, very briefly, outside the Washington 
airport if that is what you are referring to? 

Mr. Weitz, Did you know when that occurred ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, yes and no. There seems to be confusion about 
when it occurred. I now think that it occurred on March 5, and the 
reason that I think it occurred on March 5 is that I checked with the 
pilot on the loff and he says that on March 5 we left Page Airways and 
flew to Little Rock and on to San Antonio and I think it was INIarch 5. 

ISIr. Weitz. The contact between Mr. Lilly and ]\Ir. Comially took 
place at Page Airways at National Airport? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes ; we were in a taxicab going to take our own plane 
at Paffe Airways and Secretary Connally's limousine passed us and 
he and his wife were in it, and they pulled up just ahead of us. By 
the time that thev got there, they w^ere already out of their limousine, 
as I recall, and Bob Lilly went over and talked to Mr. Connally very 
briefly, and then came Ijack while the rest of us stood on the sidewalk 
to wait. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me ask a few questions about that. 

"\"\nio from AMPI was with you at the time ? 



6618 

Mr. Nelson. I know Mr. Parr was because he started to walk over 
and I told him, "No, let Mr. Lilly go" ; and Mr. Townsend was there, 
and T believe — I am not sure, but I believe Mr. Elrod was there. I have 
been told that he was there ; I really did not recall, until I started talk- 
ing about this thing, who was there. 

]\|r. Weitz. Who did you talk to about this meeting, other than your 
attorneys ? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, I have talked to Mr. Lilly about tliis meeting. I 
have talked to^ — well, other than my attorneys, I guess that is it. 

Mr. Gallman. Well, obviously 

Mr. Nelson. I have talked to the Prosecutor. 

Mr. Weitz, Was it in the last several months that you have talked 
to Mr, Lilly about the meeting ? 

^Ir. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr, Weitz. Was it he who refreshed your memory about Mr. El- 
rod's presence? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Have you talked to Mr. Townsend about the meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. No; I have not talked to Mr. Townsend about the 
meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Have you talked to Mr. Parr about the meeting in the 
last several months ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Who was the driver from AMPI that took you to the 
airport ? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot tell you for sure, who it was. I have been told 
it was Willy Pleasant, he did drive for us a lot, but I do not recall. I 
do not have an independent recollection. 

Mr. Weitz. He's a taxi driver in Washing-ton ? 

Mr. Nelson. He's a taxi driver in Washington. He was used by us a 
great deal. 

Mr. Weitz. Where did you leave from to go to the airport? Did 
you leave from INIr. Harrison's office ? 

Mr. Nelson. That could be. 

Mr. Weitz. "VYlien you got in the car to leave for the airport, did you 
know you would be seeing Mr. Connally, or were you attempting to 
catch Mr. Connally at the airport ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. It was purely by chance ? 

Mr. Nelson. Purely by chance, he passed us in his limousine as we 
got to the bridge, it seems to me. 

Mr. Weitz. "WHien he passed in the limousine, what discussion took 
place? Wlm first mentioned that it was Secretary Connally, and so 
forth? 

Mr. Nelson. T cannot remember. 

Mr. Wettz. Was there any discussion about it ? 

Mr. l^ET,soN. Sure. It was said, "Thei-e is Secretary Connally." 

Mr. Weitz. Was there any further discussion after it was noticed 
that he was passinq: alongside the car? 

Mr. Nelson. T dont know, somebodv mi.frht have said "I wonder if 
he's goino; to Texas" — that's iust coniecture on mv part. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Jaco])sen with you at that time ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I don't believe so. 



6619 

Mr. Weitz. If Mr. Jacobsen was in contact or AMPI with Mr. Con- 
nally in February and March, was there some discussion even though 
Mr. Jacobsen was not i)i'esent, of perhaps someone speaking to him 
in some way, of what his importance in the price-support decision 
might l)e? 

Mr. Nelson. No — are you talking about Jacobsen now ? 

Mr. Weitz. No, I understand Jacobsen was not with you, but he was 
contacting Secretary Connally on your behalf about the price-support 
decision and Mv. Connally, you hoped therefore, might play a role 
in assisting you to obtain an increase, is that correct? 

Mr. Nelsox. That's right. 

Mr. Weitz. Secretary Connally passed you in the car on the way to 
the airport, and you noticed that it was he. My question is, did anyone 
then go on to discuss talking with him about the price-support 
decision ? 

Mr. Nelson. Talking with Connally ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Nelson. Not until we got there and saw that he was on the side- 
walk as I recall. The minute we saw him on the sidewalk. Bob Lilly 
went over, ]SIr. Parr started to go over, and I said, "No, let Bob go." 

Mr. Weitz. Did you suggest to Lilly that he go over and speak to 
Secretary Connally ? 

Mr. Nelson. I may have. I do not think I really had to. 

Mr. Weitz. "\^niat do you mean by that ? 

Mr. Nelson. I think he did it just naturally. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know that he was going over? Did he say, 
"I'm going over to speak to Secretary Connally" ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't know whether he said, "I'm going to speak to 
Secretarj^ Connally," but — or whether I told him to go speak to Secre- 
tary Connally, but we both knew that he was going to go speak to 
Secretary Connally. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he know Secretary Connally ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, he knew Secretary Connally. 

Mr. Weitz. How long had he known the Secretary? 

Mr. Nelson. I could not tell you that, but he knew Secretary Con- 
nally when he was Governor. The reason I say that is this. Mr. Lilly, 
as I recall at the time Secretar}^ Connally was Governor, Mr. Lilly 
was manager of either the State farm bureau, worked for the State 
farm bureau or the Texas farm bureau, or for the valley farm bureau 
and spent what you might call an inordinate amount of time in Austin, 
Tex., dealing with legislative and regulatory matters on behalf of 
that organization. And he would have bills signed and he knew the 
Governor. 

Mr. Weitz. Would you say that he had fairly frequent contact with 
him during those years ? 

Mr. Nelson. He can tell you how often, but I would say more con- 
tact than the usual citizen would have. 

Mr. Weitz. He certainly knew him much better than you did? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. You mentioned, I believe, that you had had up until 
that time in 1971, three previous meetings with Mr. Connally. 

Mr. Nelson. Right. 



6620 

Mr. Weitz. And you avouIcI say that he knew him much better than 
you did ? How many more contacts did we have with him ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, I would. 

Mr. Weitz. Now about Mr. Parr? Did he know Secretary Connally ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't think he knew him at all. 

Mr. Weitz. To your knowledge he had never met with him ? 

Mr. Nelson. To my knowledge, he never had. 

Mr. Weitz. When Mr. Parr indicated he wanted to go over and talk 
to Secretary Connally also, what did you say ? 

Mr. Nelson. I said something like, "No, no, Bob knows him." 

Mr. Weitz. And Mr. Parr did not go over and speak to Secretary 
Connally ? 

Mr. Nelson. He did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Why were you interested in not having Mr. Parr go 
over and at least meet the Secretary ? 

Mr. Nelson. I knew that liob Lilly knew him. I was hoping he 
might disclose something to Mr. Lilly about his efforts on our behalf 
that he otherwise, not knowing Mr. Parr, might not want to talk about. 

Mr. Weitz, How long did the discussion last between Mr. Lilly and 
Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Nelson. Very short. I wotild say 2 or 3 minutes. 

Mr. Weitz. And then what happened ? 

Mr. Nelson. That's just an estimate. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Connally left, and Mr. Lilly came back to your 
group ? 

Mr. Nelson. We all left. 

Mr. Weitz. But you left separately, so actually you had no contact 
with Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Wliat did Mr. Lilly tell you upon his return ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall specifically except that he was optimistic. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss the matter further with Mr. Lilly — for 
example, on the plane ride home ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall discussing it. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall what Mr. Lilly said? ^^Tien you say he 
was optimistic, were you referring to Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Nelson. That Mr. Lilly was optimistic after talking to JNIr. 
Connally. I do not recall how lie put it, but my impression was that 
Lilly felt that Secretary Connally was optimistic about the possibili- 
ties of our getting favorable action. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. Now at that time, you say you talked to the pilot. 
Is it your recollection, or are you relying solely on the pilot's estimate, 
that-^ 

Mr. Nelson. There is no way that I can remember whether it was 
the .5th or the (ith or the 18th oi' the 20th. I do not think anybody else 
can, to tell you the tnith : I think it has got to rely on some record. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, let me ask you this. Do you recall in the context, 
not of a specific date, but rather in terms of events, whether, for exam- 
ple, it was l)eforc or after the first decision by the Secretary of Agri- 
culture not to raise price supports ? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot tell you that either. 

Mr. Weitz. What did you understand by Mr. Lilly's comment that. 



6621 

after talking to Mr. Connally, he was optimistic— "he" meaning Mr. 
Lilly — optimistic about what? 

Mr. Nei.sox. About favorable action on the price support. That is 
what we were 

Mr. Weitz. By whom ? 

Mr. Nelsox. By the President. That is the only person who can take 
a favorable action on the price support in my view. I have said that 
repeatedly. 

Mr. Wfatz. So you understood, therefore, that he was referring to 
administrative action by the President and the Secretary of Agricul- 
ture ? 

Mr. N'elsox. Yes, that is what it meant to me. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate whether Mr. Connally had talked to 
anyone in the administration, including the President? 

iMr. Xelsox. Xo. 

Mr. "Weitz. Did he indicate what Mr. Connally or he based his op- 
timism on? 

Mr. Nelsox. Xo: he did not go into details as I recall, he just said 
that he is optimistic. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you relate that to anyone? That viewpoint? 

Mr. Xelsox. Probably, to whoever was — you see, I do not recall. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Well, were the othei-s — did Mr. Parr overhear the com- 
ment from Mr. Lilly ? 

]\Ir. Xelsox. I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Was he present, standing next to you ? 

IMr. Xelsox. He was present. And knowing ^Ir. Parr as I know him, 
I feel certain that Mr. Parr would have extracted from Mr. Lilly or 
me whatever it Avas tliat had just been said between us, reluctant 
though we may have been to tell him. 

Mr. Weitz." So, in fact, he was anxious to talk to the Secretary ; he 
certainly would like to know what the Secretary said ? 

Mr. Xelsox. But I cannot tell you whether I did or did not tell him. 

Mr. Weitz. What about Mr. Townsend? You said he was there; 
what about Mr. Elrod ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not recall either of them being there. _ 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever relate the fact tbat this meeting took place, 
or anythinof about it, to Mr. Jacobsen? After all, he was in contact 
with Ml-. Connallv. 

Mr. Xelsox. I have no independent recollection having said it to 
him, but I am sure the next time I talked to Mr. Jacobsen — I said we 
ran into Secrotaiy Connally on the sidewalk at Page. That is the logi- 
cal thing. I do not reallv remember doing that, but I feel certain that 
I did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you relate it to Mr. Harrison ? 

Mr. Xef-sox. T may have. We were working on the same thing. I 
probablv did. I do not remember that. 

Mr. Weitz. After the meeting you boarded the aircraft, your 
aircraft 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes. 

]Mr. AVeitz. Wioi-o did you fly to ? 

Mr. Xelsox. To Little Rock, to let those who were living in Little 
Rock off. 



6622 

Mr. Wkitz. That would be ]\Ir. Parr and INIr. Townsend ? 

Mr. Nelson. And ]SIr. Elrod, I believe, at that time. I could be 
wrong about that, but I believe that Mr. Elrod was also living in 
Little Rock at that time, and then on to San Antonio. 

Mr. Weitz. For you and ^Iv. Lilly ? 

Mi-. Nelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. No other stops ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. That day ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mv. Weitz. A^liere did Mr. Connally fly to ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there any discussion about either his aircraft, or 
where he was flying to ? 

Mr. Nelson. I think there was some conjecture on the way to the 
airport; after he passed us, I w^ondered if he was going to Houston 
or the ranch or wherever. 

My. Weitz. How about after the meeting, and on the way out to 
the aircraft? Was there any discussion between any of you, the AMPI 
people, with respect to wliat plane he was fl3'ing out on, or where he 
w^as going? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall it. There could have been, but I do not 
recall it. 

Mr. Weitz. He flew out of Page Airways on some private plane. 
Do you know that ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know^ whethei- it w^as a Govej-nment plane 
or a private plane. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you hare any other contacts directly w^itli Mr, 
Connally during, let's say. March of 1971 ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. 

ISIr. Weitz. Did ]\Ir. Lilly have any other contacts with Mr. 
Connally, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Nelson. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Weitz. The only other contacts with Mr. Connally by the 
dairy people, other than Mr. Jacobsen, was this one instance of Mr. 
Lilly? 

Mr. Nelson. To the best of my knowledge, yes, sir; but even, to be 
very candid with you, I've been reading these accounts, but they do 
not live with mv knowledge. I am talking about published accounts. 

Mr, Weitz. After the meeting with Mr. Connally, do you recall 
any change in strategy, or any effect that that meeting had upon your 
thinking in terms of what was the best route to attain the price sup- 
port increase ? 

Mr. Nelson. As far as I was concerned, we were full steam ahead 
with what we were doing at the time. 

Mv. Weitz. With both legislative and administrative ? 

Mr. Nelson. I think the record, or a checkout, Avill reflect that we 
kept right on pressing Congressmen 

Mr. Sanders. Before you leave the Page Airways incident, could 
I ask a question ? 

Mr. Weitz. Cei'tainly. 

Mv. Sandeus. T believe the flight logs show an entrv for the AMPI 
aircraft traveling fi'om Washington. D.C., leavinc: Washinofton Na- 



6623 

tional Airport on :March 20, 1971, which gave us a little trouble because 
of Lilly's recollection that it occurred on tlic 19th. But I am wonder- 
iiitr — YOU have told us you checked Avith the pilot Avho has checked 
tlie logs, and your best judgment was that it would be the 5th. I am 
wondering, were you aware that there was an entry for the 20th? 

]\fr. Nelsox. The pilot tells nie tliat there is not an entry for the 
20th from Washington to Little Rock to San Antonio. 

Mr. Saxdicks. lie told you there was not ? 

]\rr. Xelsox. It does not show Washington-Little Rock-San 
Antonio. 

]Mr. Saxders. The one on the 20th did not include a stop at Little 
Rock? 

]Mr. Xelsox. That is right. But this is not the 5th. The 5th shows 
"Washington-Little Rock-San Antonio, and the one on the 19th or 20th 
shows AVasliing-ton-San Antonio, not the Little Rock stop, and if you 
know this pilot— anybody can make a mistake, but this guy — he just 
ordinarily does not make mistakes, is what I'm saying. 

Mr. Sanders. Did you establish, then, that later in the month, any 
time later in the month, there was not a flight from Washington to 
San Antonio via Little Rock? 

INIr. Nelsox. Xo; because later in the month the action would have 
already been taken, and we would not have been meeting Secretary 
Connally. 

Mr. Saxders. I mean up until the 25th. 

^Ir. Xelsox. I believe — I do not absolutely recall, but I believe I 
did, and I think he told me that there was not. I think that is what 
the logs will show. 

Mr. Gallmax. Well, Harold, you checked this another way too. 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes; let's see. Wliat other way are you talking about? 

Mr. Gallmax'. Where Connally's aircraft went. 

]SIr. Xelsox. Oh, yes. And Connally's aircraft — he was not in Wash- 
ington on that 19th or 20th date, so he could not have been out there 
to the airport. 

Mr. Weitz. Where was he ? 

Mr. Xelsox". I am not sure, but I think they said he was in New 
York. 

Mr. Weitz. On the 19th and 20th ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes ; he was not out there. 

Mr. Weitz. On the 19th? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Of March 1971? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Galuviax. But he was there on the 5th. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk to Mr. Connally about it ? 

Mr. Nelsox. X^o ; I did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk with his attorney about it? 

Mr. Nelsox. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Weitz. How did you obtain this information ? 

Mr. X'elsox. I talked to Joe Long or someone. I cannot recall who 
it was. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you laiow whether Mr. Long has been in contact 
with either Mr. Connally or some representative of Mr. Connally? 

Mr. Nelsox^. I assume that he has. 



6624 

Mr. Weitz. How about INIr. Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Nelson. I am sure he has. 

Mr. AVeitz. Do you remember discussions during INInrcli of 1971 con- 
cerning contributions to the Republican Party and to the l-*resident's 
reelection effort by TAPE and the other da iry trusts ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. No^Y, the record shows tliat on March 22 TAPE made 
a contribution of $10,000 to four Republican committees. 

Do you recall the contribution of that nature and any circumstances 
surroimding it ? 

Mr. Nelson. I have been told about it, but I do not recall the 
incident. 

Mr. Weitz. I believe you testified that TAPE contributions would 
not be made without your authorization or without it being consist- 
ent with your prior discussions or authorizations. 

Mr. Nelson. I said any TAPE contribution would have to go 
through Isham. 

Mr. Weitz. As a legal matter? 

Mr. Nelson. He would have to sign the checks. That's tlie only way 
they were issued. And I just did not believe that Mr. Isham would 
issue any TAPE checks except some that I told him to issue or 
Mr. Lilly had told him to issue. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall discussing with him the issuance of those 
checks or the making of that contribution ? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; you see, there are too manj' 

Mr. Weitz. Do you laiow if Mr. I^illy did ? 

Mr. Nelson. I assume he did. I don't tliink Mr. Isham would have 
done it if it was not discussed with liim by one or tlie otiier of us. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you and Mr. Lilly in Washington on the week of 
the 22d, the 23d? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know wliether Mr. Lilly was here. I assume he 
was. But I was. 

Mr. Weitz. And do you remember discussing with Mr. Lilly the 
question of contributions? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I do not remember that specific time. 

Mr. Weitz. Wliat was the nature of your conversations, let's say 
during the last half of March 1971 ? What conversations or substance 
of conversations did you have with your own people, and also with 
those of other dairy trusts, with respect to contributions to the Presi- 
dent's reelection ? 

Mr. Nelson. That we had to get the committees and we liad to get 
ready to make the contributions. 

Mr. Weitz. At that time, of course, you were seeking a reversal of 
the Marcli 12 decision of tlie Secretary of Agriculture ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes 

Mr. Weitz. Did you feel that it was important to make those con- 
tributions — some contributions in INIarch in order to help your posture 
with respect to obtaining an increase from the administration ? 

Mr. Nelson. I have thought that it is always important to make the 
contributions that you have indicated that you want to make so that 
they know tliat you do what you profess tliat you will do. 

Mr. Weitz. That you are serious about it ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. To give you more credibility. Absolutely. 



6625 

One thing- that bugged me about those contributions from the first 
time we ever started talking about we would make them, is that we 
could not get the conunittces. 

Mr. "Weitz. Now, in a previous interview that we conducted, you and 
I, several months ago, I believe you indicated to me that you thought 
that the President was aware of the contributions that the dairy peo- 
ple had made and were intending to make. 

Could you tell us on what you base that opinion ? 

^Ir. Xelsox. I base it on the fact that we had talked to Charles Col- 
son, who was at least reputed to be a man of easy access to the 
President. 

j\Ir. Weitz. And he knew about jour intentions — your actual contri- 
butions and your intentions to make adtlitional substantial contribu- 
tions ^ 

]Mr. Xelsox. ]Maybe you were not in here. I testified to this yester- 
day-. Yes, he did, 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ever tell vou that he talked to the President 
about it ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate that he talked to anyone else about it, 
anyone else in the "Wliite House ? 

5lr. Xelsox. Xot explicitly ; no. 

Mr. Weitz. But it was your understanding ? 

Mr. Xelsox. We assumed that, and that was the general tenor. 

Mr. Weitz. Are these the conversations you had with liim, for 
example, in 1070 ? 

]Mr. Xelsox. The conversations we had with him — you see, I cannot 
tell you the date. But whenever we liad conversations with him 

Mr. Weitz. The matter came up and you reiterated your interest in 
making contributions ? 

Mr. Xelsox. It never failed, is my recollection of it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you meet with him in March of 1971 or around that 
time in connection with the milk price support decision ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not know. I do not remember. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you laiow whether anyone on your behalf Avas 
meeting with Mr. Colson, any of j'our attorneys? 

]Mr. Xelsox. The only other person would have been Mr. Harrison 
possibly. 

Mr. Weitz. How about Mr. Chotiner ? 

Mr. Xelsox. He may have, but I doubt it. I would assume that 
Mr. Chotiner, if he was going to do something, would not have needed 
to go through Mr. Colson. I may be wrong; I don't know that much 
about the hierarchy over thei'e. 

Mr. Weitz. '\A^io would he talk to ? Who was it your understanding 
that he had talked to? 

Mr. Xelsox. He never did say. But I knew that he had loiown the 
President long before most of these people, and I assumed that he was 
talking to him if he was going to talk. Xoav that may be absolutely 
wrong, you see. But that was our assumption. 

]\Ir. Weitz. "WTiat about Mr. Hillings ? He had written a letter to the 
President in December 1970 and signed it "Pat,*" and from previous 
expectations you were aware that he had a personal friendship with 
the President. 



6626 

Mr. Nelson, I would say demonstrably so, based — you know, you 
cannot rely on what people tell you, because everybody says of a 
prominent politician, "Oli, I know him,'' if they met him in a reception 
line somewhere ; and he wouldn't even know him again if he saw him. 

But when we had the meeting with the President of — when we had 
the dairy leadere in, I will put in that way, in March of 1971, I did 
not really remember that Hillings was there until we got involved in 
all of this. But then it occurred to me that the President referred to 
Hillings warmly, you know, in a very cordial and jovial manner, and 
more or less treated him as the court jester, I would say. I had earlier 
said that that is what really caused me to decide, I think, that he was 
close to the President. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you Iniow whether he met with the President or 
anyone else in the White House in March of 1971 on milk price sup- 
ports, other than this open meeting that you attended ? 

Mr. Nelson. To be very honest with you about it, I do not think 
that he did. I do not think that he had that kind of access. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall any meetings with Mr. Harrison or any 
discussions in the last half of ]\Iarch 1971 — more particularly, about 
setting up committees, or somehow actually getting the contributions 
going? I take it that up until March 22 there had been no contributions 
to Republican national committees or on behalf of the President? 

Mr. Nelson. I am not sure about that. If they were, they were TAPE 
and it is a matter of record. 

Mr. Weitz. For example, as a result of your meeting with 
Mr. Kalmbach and Mr. Evans and Mr. Colson in November 1970, 
nothing had come out of that meeting yet ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. Nothing had come out of that meeting 

Mr. Weitz. In fact, I believe you said yesterday that you met with 
Mr. Chotiner and ISIr. Kalmbach on the evening of the 24th to discuss 
the possibility of getting these committees. So until the 24th certainly 
you had not gotten any results that you could — with respect to com- 
mittees for contributions? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. The reason I'm saying this is l^ecause I 
cannot recall if we had a few committees before that and we were 
trying to go ahead and get more, or whether we had not gotten any 
up to that point. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall any specific conversations with Mr. Har- 
rison about moving ahead in a more substantial way with committees 
and contributions ? This would be in the last half of March 1971. 

Mr. Nelson. I will be very candid with you about it. When we got — 
that veiy short meeting that we had there when we went up to 
Mr. Kalmbach's room, it was explicitly understood that we would ha\ e 
the committees forthcoming. 

Mr. Weitz. And that you would make the contributions in how short 
a period of time, do you know ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Within 1 month's time? 

Mr. Nelson. Well actually, we would just have done it when they 
gave us the connnittees. All we wanted were the committees. It was a 
simple act of writing checks. So there was no quibbling over time at 



6627 

all. We were willing to do it instantly if tliey had given us the com- 
mittees. And as I recall, avc still did not get them. 

I cannot remember when we got the first bunch of committees that 
got all the unfavorable publicity, because even when they gave us the 
committees they bungled it. Now, this may seem extra harsh, but it is 
a published fact that they did. For instance, one of the committee's 
address was a hotel ballroom. We didn't know that until we got down 
to it. Another one, the chairman was a Washington lawyer whose 
name T cannot tell you. He had not even been consulted, and he was 
of the opposite political persuasion, and it made him so mad that he 
blew his stack and called the Clerk of the House — is the report I 
got. So that is the sort of manner in which they handled this. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, the contribution that you were talking about — 
were these to come from TAPE, or also from the other two trusts? 

Mr. Nelson. When I say this — from TAPE and the other two 
trusts. 

Mr. Weitz. You felt that— were you speaking on behalf of them 
when you met, for example, with Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr.'NEESOx. I would not say that I was speaking on behalf of them. 

Mr. Weitz. You felt fairly confident that they would make 
contributions? 

Mr. Nelsox. I felt absolutely confident of it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk to them about that? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Let's take Mid-America. Did you talk to Gary Haimian 
about it ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate how much they were willing to 
contribute ? 

Mr. NeLvSon. I'm sure he did, but I could not tell you. 

Mr. Weitz. How much did you feel you could count on them to 
contribute thouirh ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know. At the time we knew and hoped for more, 
but I can't tell you because then they were in their infancy and they 
did not have the money or the membershi]) that we did. 

Mr. Weitz. AAHiat about Dairymen, Inc? 

Mr. Nelson. Same thing. 

^fr. Weitz. ^Ylio did yoii talk to ? 

Mr. Nelson. Paul Alagia. 

Mr. Weitz. And did he indicate he would contribute some ? 

]\f r. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. How much ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall the amount. 

IVfr. Weitz. Were these meetings all taking place in Washington? 

]\Ir. Nelson. There were more than one of these. INIeotings took place 
in Washington, Louisville, or any other place that we might happen 
to be meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. '\Anien you talked to them — this was something that 
did not just come up in ISrarch, I take it. This is something that had 
been going on for a period of time in terms of talking to them and ■ 

Mr. Nelson. And getting them to foiTii these organizations. 

:Mr. WErrz. Not only form the organizations, but talking to them 
about contributing with you to the President's reelection ? 



6628 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, yes. They understood that. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us what was the urgency of flying to 
Louisville at 4 in tlie morning on the morning of the 24th of March 
to discuss the matter with Mr. Alagia ? 

Mr. Nelson. The urgency was that you had a — in my view, the 
urgency was that people get complacent. As long as you have still got 
something pending you can get a commitment out of them ahout their 
contribution. 

Mr. Weitz. Let's step back for a minute. Did you talk on the 23d 
with Mr. Alagia while he was still in Washington ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall that I did. I may have. I do not recall 
seeing him in Washington. 

Mr. Weitz. He was at the meeting with the President, was he not? 

Mr. Nelson. I thought that he was. That was my memory. But on 
that list that I was shown yesterday he was not included, so I do not 
know whether he was in that meeting or not. 

Mr. Weitz. But presumably before that time you talked to him 
about this matter of contributing to the President? 

Mr. Nelson. We had talked to him about it, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And he had indicated previously that he would con- 
tribute some moneys to the President— SPACE would contribute some 
moneys to the President ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. On the evening of the 23d before you flew out, who were 
you conferring with that evening? 

Mr. Nelson. On the 23d ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes, after the meeting with the President. 

Mr. Nelson. I do not 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember talking with Mr. Hanman ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Hanman was with me when I went to Louisville. 

Mr. Weitz. Wio else was with you ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Parr. 

Mr. Weitz. Anyone else ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't belie^-e so. 

Mr. Weitz. The three of you ? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe that is all. 

Mr. Weitz. And you flew to Louisville; what time did you- 



Mr. Nelson. See, I was on my way to Jacksonville, Fla., to make a 
speech at a dairy meeting, so it was decided— why don't we go down 
there. And Parr was really the pusher. He is always the pusher on this 
sort of an effort. 

So the idea was, we would go down there and talk to Paul and get a 
commitment about what contributions they would make, and then T 
would continue on to Jacksonville. 

Well, by the time we got down there and got to talking to him, the 
time for them to get a flight back to Washington was gone. I flew 
them back to Washington, and then I went to Jacksonville. 

Mr. Weitz. This all would have been in the early morning houi-s of 
the 24th of March? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, whatever the date was on that flight. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, you referred to the jet log before. Let's refer to 
that again and see if that clears it up. 



6629 

On the 23d it indicates D.C. to Louisville, and on the 24th 
Louisville to D.C, D.C. to ,Tacksonville, Jacksonville to D.C. So you 
flew out, at least according to the record, at least left Washington late 
at night on the 23d, arrived in Louisville early in the morning. 

Mr. Xelsox. Whatever time it was. 

Mr. Weitz. During the night of the 23d — 2-l:th, flew hack to Wash- 
ington, down to Jacksonville and back to Washington. You said you at- 
tended the dinner on the night of the 24th5 so you were back in Wash- 
ington for the dinner ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Weitz. Why were you seeking a commitment on the morning 
of the 24th of Mr. Alagia if he had already expressed his interest in 
contributing? 

Mr. Xelsox. AVe did not have a — actually, I personally, at the 
time — just trying to recall — I figured we were more certain to get the 
money from Mr. Alagia than we were from ]Mr. Hanman, and we got 
Mr. Hanman in the posture of going down there to get Alagia, and 
incidentally we were getting Mr. Hanman, 

Mr. Weitz. So you wanted to line up everybody ? 

Mr. Nelsox. That is right. 

Mr. Weitz. How much money did you want to tell Mr. Kalmbach 
the next day that you wanted to contribute ? 

Mr. Xelsox. We had already told him long before this. 

Mr. Weitz. How much ? 

Mr. Xelsox. As I have told you repeatedly 

Mr. Weitz. There's the $2 million figure that Mr. Hillings stated. 
Would that be consistent with your previous conversation? 

Mr. Xelsox. Oh, it would have been — that was not too much. 

Mr. Weitz. More than $2 million ? 

Mr. Nelson. We would have if they would have given us the 
committees. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, you could make that representation, and you had 
already made that representation according to your testimony, with- 
out talking to Mr. Alagia. What was the purpose of getting a com- 
mitment from him on some specific amount in the morning of the 24th ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Just because we wanted to — if we got the committees 
we wanted to be in a position to have them start contributing. 

Mr. Weitz. But you did not have the committees. You had not had 
them for 3 or 4 months, at least, since the last time that you had met 
with Mr. Kalmbach and Mr. Evans. 

Did you not, in fact, want to get specific amounts from him so you 
knew you could tell Mr. Kalmbach or some one of the Republican fund- 
raisers on the 24th that within 1 week or 2 weeks time you could con- 
tribute X amount of dollars if the committees were provided ? 

Mr. Nelson^. I don't think we were getting enough money from them 
to make a whole lot of difference. 

Mr. Weitz. How much did you ask them for? 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ask them for $300,000 ? 

Mr. Nelsox. They did not have $300,000, as I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. SPACE? 

Mr. Nelsox. I don't believe so. 



6630 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ask them for $300,000 ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I don't recall. jMr. Alagia might remember, but I 
do not remember how much we might have asked liim for. 

Mr. Weitz. How much did you ask him for? 

Mr. Nelson. As I say, I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you mention a figure? 

Mr. Nelson. I am sure we tallced about a figure. 

Mr. Weitz. You asked for some specific amount wliich you cannot 
recall at this particular time? 

Mr. Nelson. That's right, we asked him for a figure. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he agree to make that contribution that you asked 
for? 

Mr. Nelson. He agreed to see what he could do. I do not think he 
made any firm 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ask him to make a loan to ADEPT — to have his 
organization make a loan to ADEPT ? 

Mr. Nelson. We asked him or it was discussed. I don't remember 
whether w^e asked him. It was discussed that one or the other of us 
would make a loan to ADEPT, and I believe it wound up with TAPE 
making a loan to ADEPT. 

Mr. Weitz. That's the way it wound up. Did you ask Mr. Alagia to 
have SPACE make a loan to ADEPT? 

Mr. Nelson. We talked to him, whether it would be them or us. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ask him whether they would be interested in 
doing so ? 

Mr. Nelson. I think there was no question about thc}^ would have 
been interested in doing it if they had the money available. As I recall, 
he did not know how much they had available at that time. 

Mr. Weitz. Was he interested in helping you, but just wanted to 
check how much they had, and would do everything lie could? 

Mr. Nelson. My recollection is he w^as very interested. There was no 
problem from that standpoint at all. 

Mr. Weitz. He did not think the amoimts you suggested were too 
high. 

Mr. Nelson. T have no recollection of his thinking that. He might 
have said that the money that we were asking for Mas more than they 
could do or did have. 

Mr. Weitz. Off the record. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Weitz. Now, you said that Mr. Hanman and his organization 
did not have enoupfh money at that time. They wore more or less in 
their infancy. Was not the purpose of talking to ]\Ir. Alagia because 
they did have along with TAPE — well, not as much as TAPE, but 
certainly, they had more than ADEPT, and the hope was that they 
would take up a sul:)stantial i')ortion of the amount of money that you 
wanted to contribute to the President's reelection. 

Mr. Nelson. To give as much as they could. 

Mr. Weitz. Wliat would be the idea of a loan to ADEPT? So they 
could make a contribution right away along with you, and conld re- 
pay it as they received money from their members? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. What was the urgency of them making a contribution 
before they, in fact, had enough money to cover the contribution? 



6631 

Mr. Nelson. I think the urgency of that is, when they make the con- 
tribution, then that is a spur — go out and secure participants in the 
program. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, they did not have much funds at that point, cer- 
tainly not enough to cover the contributions that you ai'e talking about. 
Isn't tliat enough of a spur that here we're trying to make contributions, 
and we don't have enough money ? It would have to put them in the 
deficit. 

Mr. Nelsox. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. It had not 
served as a spur, Mr. Weitz ; it had not served as a spur up to that point. 

Mr. Weitz. That Avas the reason they did not have enough money in 
their treasury ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you give a time limit to Mr. Alagia, or a deadline, 
or a goal ? 

ISIr. Nelson. I believe I told him that I wanted to know by the next 
morning. 

ISIr. Weitz. The morning of the 24th ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, the same 

Mr. Weitz. Some time that day? 

INIr. Nelson. I may be wrong. I may not have, but I think I did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he tell you ho woidd let you know that day ? 

Mr. Nelson. He told me he would let me know as soon as they 

Mr. Weitz. Did he later on tell you ? 

INIr. Nelson. I don't believe he called me, because I was going on to 
Florida, down at the meeting, making a speech, and so forth. I be- 
lieve he talked to Mr. Parr. 

Mr. Weitz. ^^Hiat was their decision that was made that day? Do 
you know ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't recall. I think they 

]\Ir. Weitz. Did they make the contribution? 

Mr. Nelson. I think so. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that as a result of your meeting with him that morn- 
ing, or at least his response was the result of your 

Mr. Nelson. I think so ; yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Is it vour recollection that vou asked him for at least 
$100,000? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not remember how much we asked him for. We 
would ask him to contribute up to the limit of their ability, whatever 
money they had. 

Mr. Weitz. You were talkinflf al)ont — ^2 million, vou said, Avonld not 
have been too much. "\^niat percentage of that did you envision SPACE 
and ADEPT each contributing? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, say — I do not recall breaking it down that way, 
but I would say, just in retrospect, at least one-third. 

Mr. Weitz. Together, or each? 

Mr. Nelson. One-third to one-half together. 

Mr. Weitz. Or somewhere between $650,000 to $1 million together? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

;Mr. Weitz. So that would mean anywhere from over $300,000 apiece 
to almost f?5500.OOO apiece? 

Mr. Nelson. Eight. 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 17 



6632 

Mr. Weitz. Is it likely, then, that you did, in fact, make some request 
in that range to Mr. Alagia on the morning of the 24th ? 

Mr. Nelson. It is hard to say. At that point, we were not trying to 
get the total contribution at that point. 

Mr. Weftz. You were trying to get some portion ? 

Mr. Nelson. We were trying to get some portion of it, and what- 
ever money they had, that's wliat we would have })cen trying to get. 

Mr. Weitz. You were trying to get the $250,000 to cover the first 
round for the committees ? 

Mr. Nelson. Do you mean get all of it from him ? 

Mr. Weitz. No, $250,000 ; a portion from him, and a portion from 
ADEPT. 

Mr. Nelson. As I say, I do not recall the amount. We were trying 
to get whatever they could contribute, because — you have got to re- 
member also that, at this point, there was — a lot of us felt that there 
was a real possibility of consolidating those other two associations 
into Associated Milk Producers, and we viewed it as one effort. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall liow many times you met with Mr. Alagia 
at that airport, or any airport, at 4 in the morning, or thereabouts, 
either very late at night or very early in the morning ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Alagia and I have been involved in milk hearings 
for over a long period of years, and I would say meeting at midnight 
at an airport is unusual, but not — meeting late at night is not at 
all an uncommon thing to do with him. 

Mr. Weitz. Was 4 in the morning even more unusual ? 

Mr. Nelson. We did not get there at 4 o'clock, as I recall. We got 
there around midnight. 

Mr. Weitz. You waited for him to arrive? You liad called his wife 
to see when he was flying in ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't remember if he was at home, or flying in, or 
what. 

Mr. Weitz. On the 23d, you met with the President. Midnight, or 
very early in the morning on tlie 24th, you flew out to Louisville, and 
asked Mr. Alagia, on behalf of SPACE, to contril)ute some substan- 
tial amounts, but you do not remember what, perhaps to make a loan to 
ADEPT so that they could also make a contribution. And on the 
night of the 24th, you met with Mr. Kalmbach and Mr. Cliotiner. 

Mr. Nelson. No, I met with Mr. Chotiner on the night of the 24th. 
Mr. Kalmbach was in the next morning. It was after midnight when 
we finally got Mr. Chotiner to answer tlie phone in his room. 

Mr. Weitz. It was the night of the 24th, going into tlie 25th. You 
met with INIr. Chotiner and INIr. Kalmbach and discussed contribu- 
tions. Did not these meetings take place because you were making a 
concerted effort to actually have a specific, substantial amount of 
money ready to be contributed, or actually contributed in time to 
get a milk price-support decision ? 

Mr. Nelson. We had worked on this long before. 
Mr. Weitz. I know, but did you not try to seize the opportunity of 
the night of the dinner, the meeting with the President, the interven- 
tion of Mr. Cliotiner and Mr. Kahnliach, to sliow that vou were 
contributors of some substantial amount on the money right at that 
time, in order to enhance your chances to get a price-support increase? 
Mr. Nelson. If you mean, would I say that I thought that would 
hurt our chances — of course I didn't tliink it would hurt them. 



6633 

Mr, Weitz. Put it the other way around. Did you do it with the in- 
tention of having those in the administration aware that you were, 
in fact, making substantial contributions at that time, with the hope 
of getting the increase ? 

Mr. Nelsox. We always hoped to get the increase, No. 1. 

Mr. Wectz. And you hoped that those who were in the administra- 
tion with some input into the decisionmaking process, were aware 
that you were making substantial contributions ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I think they all Imew that. 

Mr. Weitz. ^Yho do yoii mean by "they all" ? Mr. Colson, certainly. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. "Weitz. Anyone else that you know of? Did Mr. Ehrlichman 
know ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. ]\rr. Haldeman ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know anything about INIr. Ehrlichman or Mr. 
Haldeman. 

Mr. WErrz. But it was your understanding from INIr. Colson that 
others in the administration were aware of your meetings with him, 
and your intention to make substantial contributions ? 

Mr. Nelson. The impression I had from Mr. Colson was that the 
President was aware of it. Let me say this. You have asked me two 
or three times about Mr. Ehrlichman and Mr. Haldeman. Mr. Colson 
never indicated to us anything about Mr. Ehrlichman or Mr. 
Haldeman. 

Mr. AVeitz. Did ]Mr. Colson indicate how he had informed the 
President, or the President's advisor, of your 

Mr. Nelson. He always wanted short memos. 

Mr. "\Yeitz. We wrote out short memos ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, we prepared memos for him to submit. 

Mr. Weitz. And what did the memos contain ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, they contained data, facts supporting the propo- 
sition we were seeking to have adopted. 

Mr. WErrz. I am not talking now — I understand. Obviously, you 
were doing whatever you could to obtain the increase, in terms of the 
merits of the case. But I thought that you just indicated that Mr. 
Colson — that your impi-ession from Mr. Colson was that he had told 
the Pi-esident, and the President was aware of j^our intention to make 
substantial contributions. Is that correct? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us if he indicated how he had informed 
either the President or the President's advisors of that fact? 

Mr. Nelson. No. I just assumed that he had done it verbally. He 
might have done it otherwise. I^ut he never said, I went in and I said 
this to the President, or, I told the President so and so. That never 
took place. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether any copies of any of the docu- 
ments that you submitted, the short fact memos to Mr. Colson, were 
retained? 

Mr. Nelson. T would imagine that Mr. Plarrison has those. As a 
matter of fact, some were prepared by Mr. Harrison. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you see those documents before they were handed 
to Mr. Colson ? 



6634 

Mr. Nelsox. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I would say, most of 
the time I did. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me show you a document dated March 11, 1971, 
a letter from Mr. Harrison to Mr. Colson, marked as exhibit 7. 

[Wliereupon, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 

7 for identification.^] 

Mr. Weitz. Now, is this the type of — first of all, have you ever 
seen this letter? [Pause] 

I am not going to ask you in detail about the letter, but I do want 
to know whether you remember that letter, or letters of that type. 

Mr. Nelsox. This is not — I do not i-emember seeing this, but this is 
not the sort of thing that I am talking about. 

Mr. Weitz. You were talking about a one-page, very brief, fact 
memorandum. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, not dealing with this aspect of the thing. I am 
talking about the supportive views. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me mark as exhibit 8, and show you another letter, 
dated March 19, from Mr. Harrison to John Whitaker, whom I 
believe was at the Wiite House at that time. 

[Wiereupon, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 

8 for identification.-] 

Mr. Nelson. I have been asked by others if I knew Mr. Whitaker, 
and I do not remember ever having met him. 

Mr. Weitz. But are you familiar with either Mr. Harrison's con- 
tacts, or with that letter from Mr. Whitaker? [Pause.] Do you recall 
that letter ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall it. Harrison probably showed me both 
of these things at the time, but I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. To your knowledge, Mr. Harrison prepared some of 
these memorandums that were submitted to Mr. Colson ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Which, as you understand it, Mr. Colson forwarded 
to others in the administration ? 

Mr. Nelson. [Nods in the affirmative.] 

Mr. Weitz. On the top of the second page of exhibit 8, it reads: 
"This is a political question and requires a political answer." It is 
referring to the price support question. Is that your understanding 
of the arguments that were being made, some of the arguments being 
made by Mr. Hari-ison to Wiitaker and others in the administration? 

Mr. Nelson. I think all of the economics were on our side. The only 
argument you could make against not lowering supports — you talk 
about a price-support increase. It was not an increase. It was a low- 
ering. It was keeping it from being lowered. All we were seeking in 
this action was to have them maintain it at the same percentage as 
the previous year. So it was not a price-support increase. 

The only argmnent you could make against it was the political argu- 
ment that it would not be popular with consumers. In my view, that 
is the only argument that the opponents had. I do not think it would 
stand up to any economic argument against it. 

Mr. Wettz. In the last sentence of exhibit 8, it says : 



iSeep. fi711. 
2 See p. 6714. 



6635 

"The President's name, not the Secretary's, is on the ballot." Do 
you know -vvliat he meant by that? 

Mr. Nelson. I think it is very apparent what he meant by that — 
that the President runs for election, and the Secretary does not. 

Mr. Wf:iTz. "Was that one of the arguments that was being made 
tliat for the President not to raise the support price might mean a 
loss of political support for the President? 

Mr. Nelsox. Absolutely; I think it w^ould have. Not to raise — I 
don't like your 

Mr. Weitz. To raise the price. 

]\Ir. Nelsox. To maintain the price support at the percentage level 
of the previous year is all that we were asking. 

Mr. AVeitz. To raise the dollar amount. 

Mr. Nelsox. It does not raise the dollar amount of income to 
farmers. 

Mr. Weitz. I said the dollar amount of the price level. 

INIr. Nelsox. Well, all right. That is the language of the opponents. 

Mr. Gallmax. They have had inflation too. 

Mr. Nelsox. Just a little. 

Mr. AVeitz. On the day of the 24th, when you came back from 
Jacksonville 

Mr. Saxders. You do not have to agree to his language if you don't 
want to. 

Mr. Nelsox. I know. I just would like the record to reflect that. 

Mr. DoRSEx. We are all entitled to our own characterizations. 

Mr. Weitz. On the day of the 24th, after your meeting at the airport 
with i\Ir. Alagia, did either you or anyone else with AMPI discuss fur- 
ther with i\fr. Hanman or any others from the dairy trusts, political 
contributions to the President ? This was on the 24th. 

Mr. Nelsox. You see, I left— when we originally went down to 
Louisville, the idea was they Avould return by commercial air, and I 
would go to Florida and come back. As a result, I wound up with no 
sleep that night, and making that speech down there. 

Mr. Weitz. AAliat time did you get back to Washington ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not know, but I would say it had to be no earlier 
than the middle of the afternoon or late afternoon. 

]Mr. Weitz. Did you talk to Mr. Harrison upon returning to Wash- 
ington and before going to the dinner ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not believe so. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you not interested in getting those committed as 
soon as possible? After all, you had flown in the middle of the night 
to Louisville to talk about a contribution. 

Mr. Nelsox'. I figured there were people left there in Washington 
who could get them. 

Mr. Weitz. Who was working on that? 

]Mr. Nelsox. Mr. Parr. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he talk to Mr. Harrison? 

Mr. Nelsox. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he report to you about what was being done in the 
way of contributions ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not remembcT. My recollection is, we still did not 
get the committees right away. I don't think we got any committees 
while we were there in Washinoton. 



6636 

Mr. Weitz. When did you first learn of the possibility of meeting 
with Mr. Kalmbach that night, or early the next day ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it before the dinner ? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall, it was before the dinner, and it may have 
been the day before, even, or something. I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you in contact directly with Mr. Kalmbach on 
either of those 2 days ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Who was talking to Mr. Kalmbach for you ? 

Mr. Nelson. I assume Mr. Chotiner. It was either Mr. Chotiner 
or Mr. Harrison that^ 

Mr. Weitz. Were you talking with them? Mr. Chotiner and Mr. 
Harrison ? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot recall. I do not knOw, as testified previously, 
whether it was Mr. Chotiner or Mr. Harrison who told me that they 
had an appointment with Mr. Kalmbach. He would be there after 
that dinner and, if I would be back over to the liotel, that Mr. Chotiner 
would see that Mr. Kalmbach came up with the committees. That was 
the whole thing. Nobody else had been able to, and we had had previ- 
ous meetings with them. 

Mr. Weitz. And you were told this sometime before the dinner? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot tell you if it was the day of the dinner or the 
day before the dinner, or when they told me this, but it was before 
the dinner. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know this when you flew out to I^uisville? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't remember. 

Mr. Weitz. Wasn't one of the reasons you were flying to Louisville 
was with the expectation that you would be meeting Mr. Kalmbach ? 
You hadn't met with him for a number of months. Supposedly, he 
was going to come up with the name of committees, and you assumed 
you would, since a number of months had elapsed since November 
1970, and you wanted to be able to tell him exactly what you and the 
other dairy trusts were to contribute now that the committees were 
available. 

Mr. Nelson. Well, No. 1, there is a certain validity to some of the 
predicates on which you base your question, and there is a certain in- 
validity there, too. I won't accept the premise that you say that I was 
expecting them to come up with the committees, because their track 
record of coming up with the committees had left me with — I did not 
expect to get committees, period. That was kind of the stance I was in. 

Mr. Weitz. Wliy bother to fly to Louisville ? 

Mr. Nelson. Because 

Mr. Weitz. In the event they did, you wanted to be prepared to 
tell them, "this is what we're going to contribute" ? 

Mr. Nelson, I wanted to be prepared to say, "OK," and not have 
to be running around. 

Mr. Weitz. In other words, in case they surprised you 

Mr. Nelson. Surprise is a long word, you know. 

Mr. Weitz. In case Mr. Kalmbach was prepared, either that night 
or very shortly thereafter, to present you with the names of actual 
committees who would be prepared to receive contributions, you 



6637 

wanted to be prepared at the meeting after the dinner to tell him exactly 
what the dairy trusts were prepared to contribute. 

Mr. Xelsox. I would say that would be logical, if I in fact knew 
that at the time I went there. I. do not recall whether I did know. 

Mr. Weitz. But you say you did know at some thne before the 
dinner i 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes ; I did, and I assume that I knew it aL the time I 
went down there. I am just telling you that I cannot recall when they 
told me that INIr. Kalmbach would be there, and we would see him. 
I cannot tell you. 

Mr. Weitz. You said that Mr. Parr, who had returned to Washing- 
ton — you dropped him oif on your way to Jacksonville. 

Mr^ Xelsox. Xo ; we returned — well, a roundabout way, 

Mr. "\Veitz. But he was in Washington while you were in Jackson- 
ville, the day of the 24th ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. You assumed that he was in contact, perhaps with Mr. 
Harrison, to pursue the matter of contributions and of committees? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Pie was aware, for example — was he aware of the pos- 
sibility that you had met with Mr. Kalmbach that night? 

Mr. Xelsox-. I do not think so. 

Mr. Weitz. Did lie know that you would be meeting with someone 
in connection with contributions and committees? 

Mr. X^ELSOX'. I do not recall having discussed that with him. 

Mr. Weitz. But he was aware of the effort to try to get committees 
as soon as possible ? 

]\fr. Xelsox'. He knew that we had made an effort to get committees, 
and had failed. 

Mr. Weitz. He, of course, was with you in Louisville, so he was also 
aware of the effort to get the other dairy trusts to contribute along 
with you. 

Mr. Xelsox. Oh, yes, he was veiw aware of that. He is a very 
vigorous iruy in that kind of an effort. 

i\Ir. Weitz. All riglit. I believe you said that Mr. Chotiner had told 
you, on the night of the 24th, that it was not certain, but it looked 
like the price supports were going to be maintained at 85 percent, or 
increased, however, you want to phrase it. 

Mr. Xelsox. He said not to count on it, you know, because this 
conversation had been going on over there ; Page Belcher had been 
telling it all over tlie banquet. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he tell you where he got his information ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. He really did not tell it to me. 

Mr. Weitz. Did anybody hear? 

Mr. Xelso^t. There's no question about liis doing it, because these 
farmers started coming to me, and said that he was saying this, and 
at first I thouglit they were kidding me, you know. So finally, one of 
tliem took me bv him, you know, and before I could say anything to 
him, he was telling another one. I was standing there hearing him tell 
another one that it was a fact. I just could not believe that, you see, 
that they would make an announcement in that manner. So then, I do 
not recall the specific discussion, specifically what Chotiner said. He 



6638 

admonished me not to count on it, that there was still many a slip, 
and even thoiigli we were getting those reports and so for-th, not to 
count on it until the thing was actually signed — not to count your 
chickens before they hatch, in other words. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate that you Avould still be well-advised to 
meet with Kalmbach and make a commitment of contributions that 
night ? 

Mr. Nelson. That did not — we were going to meet with Kalmbach. 
That had nothing to do with whether we should not count our chickens 
before tliey hatched, or anything like that. 

Mr. Weitz. All right. 

Did you talk witli Belcher, and did he tell you how he found out 
about it, or what he knew about it ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I didn't. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Chotiner tell you how he found out what he knew ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. But you again assumed that it was someone knowledge- 
able in the administration with whom he had talked? 

Mr. Nelson. [Nods in the affirmative.] 

Mr. Weitz. Did he tell you he had met with Colson either on the 
23d or the 24th? 

Mr. Nelson. No, he did not. If he did, I have forgotten it. I do not 
recall. You see, once again, I do not know who was friendly with 
whom over there, and I do not know that Chotiner ever talked with 
him. 

Mr. Weitz. Other than what Mr. Chotiner told you, what other 
indications did you receive — you heard about Mr. Belcher's comments 
at the dinner, what other indications did you receive that the price 
supports would probably be raised in advance of the actual public 
announcement? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, Lilly saying that Connally said he was optimistic 
about getting something done ; that is about here. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Connally's name come up again on the 23d or 
24th in connection with the decision? Did you talk to Jacobsen about 
it, or Lilly about it ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't believe so. As I remember that meeting, we had 
for the President — I am not sure, but I do not believe that Connally 
was in that meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Are you aware of tlie meeting on the afternoon of the 
23d, sometime on the 23d, between the President and his advisors? 

Mr. Nelson. The President told tho whole group there — when you 
l^lay the tape, you will heai- it — he told the whole group that they were 
going to get together and discuss it further, as I recalled. 

Mr: Weitz. Did you understand that Mr. Connally was to attend 
that meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. T do not remember whether Mr. Connally was in the 
meetin.fr that we wore all in. 

Mr. Weitz. I'm talking about the meeting just between the Presi- 
dent and his advisors. 

Mr. Nelson. I just assumed he would, because, in the position he was 
in, as Secretary of the Treasury, it was a matter of 

Mr. Weitz, No one in your group knew Mr. Shultz very well. Is that 
riirht? 



6639 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. "\Yeitz. Or anyone on the Council of Economic Advisers very 
well? 

Mr. Nelsox. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Of course, you had met with Secretary Hardin and Mr. 
Campbell frequently. 

Mr. Nelsox. "We knew them. 

]\Ir. "Weitz. And Mr. Jacobsen and Mr. Lilly knew Mr. Connally? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, I would say ]Mr. Jacobsen knew ]Mr. Connally far 
better than Mr. Lilly. 

Mr. Weitz. And'^NIr. Lilly knew him far better than yourself and 
Mr. Parr? 

Mr. Nelsox. No question about that. 

!Mr. "Weitz. I am not askino- you that so much as with relation to 
other members of the President's closest advisors, that if you under- 
stood or felt that Mr. Connally would be meeting with the President on 
the 23d to either make the decision or, certainly counsel him with re- 
spect to the decision ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, I assumed that. 

Mr. "\Yeitz. Did anyone suo-gest that they talk again with Mr. Con- 
nally on either of those 2 days, to either urge him on or find out what 
was happening, or see what else you could do, who you could talk to, 
and so forth ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I don't remember. I will tell you, it would be very like 
Mr. Parr to be trying to get everybody to call everybody that they 
could about that, and he may liave suggested that, but I don't recall it. 

Mr. "\Yeitz. Did anyone suggest that tliey inform Secretary Connally 
that contributions are going to he made, so as to perhaps make — give 
some assistance to Mr. Connally's arguments to someone in the admin- 
istration? 

Mr. Nelsox. I think tliey always knew that we were ready to make 
the contributions. 

Mr. "\Yeitz. Did Mr. Connally know that? 

Mr. Nelsox. "\Yell, JNIr. Jacobsen knew it, so I am sure that Mr. Con- 
nally knew it. Mr. Jacobsen actually made speeches out in the country- 
side, at country meetings, on the TAPE program, and so forth, not 
only for AMPI, but for ADEPT ; and I think mavbe for— I forget 
which one is whicli— SPACE is DI, I guess. So for SPACE I know, 
and I think also for ADEPT. I am not sure. 

jNIr. "\Yeitz. After jVIr. Chotiner's discussion witli you on the night 
of the 24th about the possibility of an increase. Init it not being certain 
at that point, later that night, or early on the 2r)th, did you receive any 
further information from anyone, before the decision was announced, 
that the decision was going to be announced, or was probably going to 
be announced? 

]\Ir. Nelsox. As I recall, we got a call, about — I cannot tell you when 
the decision was announced. It seems to me it was around noon. We got 
a call just about contemporaneously with the announcement, saying 
that it was being announced. 

Mr. "Weitz. "\Yho cal led you ? 

Mr. Nelsox. As I say, I cannot remember. It seems to me that it was 
either Mr. Harrison or ]Mr. Chotiner who called me, but I cannot tell 
you. 



6640 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know wlio they had talked to ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. I assume that they had talked over in the Agricul- 
ture Department, where the announcement was actually })ut forth, and 
they said, "Now it is a fact, we are announcing- it, and you can release 
it," and they called me. And, you know, it might have been somebody 
from the Secretary's office that called me, too; l)ut my best recollection 
is that it was Chotiner or Harrison. 

Mr. Weitz. You referred, I think, yesterday to the message on the 
23d, phone message to you from Mr. Campbell. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall talking to Mr. Campbell between the 23d 
and the 25th? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not believe — I might have run him down then. That 
was the day of the meeting we had. 

Mr. Weitz. The 23d, yes. Did you talk with him before you left 
Washington that week ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not remember. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know why he called you ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, you said that TAPE and not SPACE had made a 
loan to ADEPT. 

Mr. Nelson. I believe that. I know that TAPE had, and I do not 
know that SPACE did not. Let me put it that way. 

And you said that SPACE didn't. I don't know that SPACE did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know how much the loan from TAPE to ADEPT 
was? 

Mr. Nelson. It seems to me that it was $.50,000, but I could be wrong. 
The reason for that is, it seems to me, that the prosecutor has asked me 
about that, or maybe you did the first time I talked to you. I don't really 
remember. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me show you a letter, which I will mark as exhibit 9 
from DeVier Pierson to Mr. Isham, dated INIarch 30, 1971. Have you 
ever seen that letter ? 

[Whereupon, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 

9 for identification.^] 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall the letter specifically, but I do recall that 
Mr. Isham was going to check with Mr. Pierson on the thing. 

Mr. Wettz. I will mark as exhibit 10, and show you a letter, dated 
April 29, 1971, from Isham to Pierson, with a copy to you, requesting 
instructions with regard to the reporting requirements for the loan. 
Have you ever seen a copy of that letter? 

[Whereu]ion, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 

10 for identification.^] 

Mr. Nelson. It shows here that I did, and I am sure that I did, but 
I do not remember it. 

Mr. Weitz. Does that refresh your recollection that a $50,000 loan 
was made from ADEPT to TAPE ? 

Mr. Nelson. That confirms my recollection. 

Mr. Weitz. What was the purpose of the loan ? Wi\j was the loan 
made ? 

Mr. Nelson. So ADEPT would have money with whicli to make 
contributions. 



1 Seep. 6716. 

2 See p. 6717. 



6641 

Mr. Weitz. Was this connected to the meeting with Mr. Alagia on 
the morning of the 24th ? 

Mr, Nelson. That was discussed at that meeting. 

Mr. AVeitz. And was this also in connection with your interest that 
the three dairy trusts would make contributions to committees pro- 
vided on behalf of the President ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, not only^ — I want to make it clear. It wasn't only 
for committees on behalf of the President. It was for any other candi- 
dates that the dairy industry was going to support. 

Mr. Weitz. Was your meeting with Mr. Kalmbach about 

Mv. Xelson. That was strictly on the President's bill. That's all we 
ever discussed with Mr. Kalmbach. 

Mr. Weitz. And he provided the names of committees to use up that 
$50,000. Do you feel that you would have preferred at that time — did 
you prefer that ADEPT contribute to Mr. Kalmbach's committee, as 
opposed to any other Republican committees that they had ? 

Mr. Nelson. I personally did, because that was the whole thrust of' 
our effort. 

Mr. Weitz. AATien did you first receive the nmnes of committees as 
a result of your contacts with Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot tell you. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me see if I can show you something to refresh your 
recollection. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. All right. 

Mr. Weitz. I will mark as exhibit 11 a note, a memo, from the desk 
of Jane S. Wright, dated April 1, 1971, and it reads: "From Marion 
Harrison : 'Don't do anything with the following, as there will prob- 
ably be a name change. We will be back in touch in a day.' " and there 
are a list of numbers below that, and the attachment lists the names of 
101 committees. 

[Whereupon, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 
11 for identification.*] 

Mr. Weitz. Have you ever seen either that memo from the desk of 
Jane Wright, or the accompanying list ? 

Mr. Nelson. That looks like the sort of list— that was the first list 
we received. 

j\Ir. Weitz. Does it refresh your recollection that on or around 
April 1 of 1971, you received a list of committee names from 
Mr. Harrison? 

Mr. Nelson. And I believe that is the first list that we received. 

Mr. Weitz. So within a week's time after this meeting with 
Mr. Kalmbach, committee names were provided to you? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Were any contributions made at that time ? 

Mr. Nelson, I believe 

Mr, Weitz. On or around that time? 

Mr, Nelson, Well, my best recollection is that we then proceeded to 
issue checks payable to these committees. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me ask you this before we get to the contributions. 
There are 101 committees listed there. Was it your understanding that 
TAPE would contribute several thousand dollars to each of those 

*See p. 6718. 



6642 

committees, or was it your understanding or intention that the other 
dairy trusts would contribute some, also ? 

]\fr. Nelsox. It was my understandino; and intent that the others 
would contribute also. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you contact them as soon as you received the names 
of these committees ? 

Mr, Nelson. No; I did not. If they were contacted, they would have 
been contacted by Mr. Parr. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me show you exhibit 27 to the testimony of Mr. 
Lilly.* I will not re-mark it for our purposes. It is a copy of check 
stubs, I believe 11 check stubs, from the checkbook of TAPE, dated 
April 26, representing- checks, dated April 26, 1971, which — and 
across the check stubs are written, "void," each check to a different 
committee name, and in the amount of $2,500. 

Have you ever seen those checks, or does that refresh your recollec- 
tion as to any transactions in April with respect to these committees ? 
I might add that those committee names represented on those stubs are 
numbered 10 through 22 minus 21 on this list. 

Mr. Nelson. OK, they are off of that list. No; I do not think that I 
would have ever seen the check stubs. 

Mr. Weitz. T\niy, on this list, there are some "X's" and tliere are 
some clashes on exhibit 11. Do you know why there are different mark- 
ings next to each of the numbers ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. Mr. Lilly 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall, in April of 1071. checks being issued, or 
at least drawn and voided, because of some problem with respect to 
those committees ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. I recall that there was generally a problem with 
respect to the committees, if that is what you are wanting to know 
about, but not with any specific committee named on here. 

Mr. Weitz. Without regard to any specific names, do you recall as 
to some of the early names you received, whetlier tliere was some 
adjustment and some additional delay that was involved? 

Mr. Nelson. Let me look at this thing here. Let us see if this thing 
will speak for itself. 

Mr. Weitz. All right. 

Mr. Nelson. This memo was from Marion Harrison. 

Mr. Weitz. This is exhibit 11 you are looking at ? 

Mr. Nelson. Right, a memo from Marion Harrison, dated April 1, 
1971, which says, "Do not do anything with the following numbered 
committees, as there will probably be a name change now." 

So as I see this here, you asked me about the significance of the 
diagonal dash, as opposed to an "X" being placed next to the numbers. 
It seems, at least to start off with, that those included on this list, which 
he said, do not do anything with, have an "X" opposite — do you want 
me to go through the whole thing? 

Mr. Weitz. No, that is all right. 

But I notice, for example, that on that list of numbers, on the front 
page of exhibit 11, all the checks that are drawn, on exhibit 27 of the 
Lilly testimony, are not marked as being so-called — well, committee 
names that should be delayed, or perhaps bad names and so forth. 

*SeeBook 14, p. 6050. 



6643 

And yet, those checks that were drawn were later voided. And I am 
askino- you wliether you recalled any transaction wliere checks were 
voided, and then because of some delay or some problem with respect 
to those committees, or with respect to any committees provided to you 
by Mr. Harrison? 

*Mr. Nelsox. I do not remember. I do recall problems in con- 
nection with committees, if that is what you mean. 

]Mr. AVeitz. And did tliose problems continue after your meeting 
with Mr. Kalmbach and Mr. Chotiner on the night of the 24tli, to the 
best of your recollection ? 

Mv. Nelsox. Yes. Well, the problems were 

Mr. Weitz. The problems in obtaining committee names. 

]Mr. Nelsox. I am not talking about that. I am talking about prob- 
lems with committees not being what they purported to be. 

Mr. "Weitz. All riglit. Do you recall whether, in the summer of 1971, 
contributions were in fact made from TAPE ? 

Mr. Saxders. Before you get to the summer 

INIr. Weitz. Let's go off the record for a minute. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Weitz. Back on the record. 

Mr. Saxders. The document sliown you by INIr. Weitz from Harri- 
son, dated Ajiril 1, indicate an enclosure of 101 names of committees, 
and you had been waiting for the names of these committees for some 
timel TAPE reports do not show the issuance of any checks to any 
reelection committees until July 1971. 

Do you know why checks were not issued before that time ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I do not. 

Mr. Saxders. Did you think they had been? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, I did. I do not recall. I do not recall that there was 
a delay. 

Mr. 'Saxders. OK. That is all. 

ISIr. Weitz. Do you recall when the first contributions to committee 
names provided by Harrison from Kalmbach were made? 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, he has just told me July. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall anything with respect to that transaction ? 

Mr. Nelsox'. No, I liave no independent recollection of that at all. 
Then, we had a lot of problems as a result of the names. 

Mr. Weitz. That was after the contributions were made? 

Mr. Nelsox. [Nods in the affirmative.] 

Mr. Weitz. I am still talking about the making of the contributions. 
Let me show you exhibit No. 3 of the Harrison executive session,* 
which is a letter from Harrison to you, dated June 16, 1971, with an 
attached list of committees with names and addresses and so forth. 

Do you recall that letter, or the transactions surrounding that letter ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I recall that he sent this later. I cannot recall if this 
is the specific list. Let me see that thing. I am trying to refresh my 
memorv. 

That first list — it may be that that thing was not coniplete enough 
to go ahead and send, so that we could do the reporting. I am just 
trying to think. I do not really recall, but does that contain sufficient 
information to make payments ? 

♦See Book 14, p. 6287. 



6644 

Mr. Weitz. Exhibit No. 11, as I indicated, besides a list of numbers 
also has a list of names of committees. It does not have addresses or 
chairmen or treasurers. 

Mr. Nelson. That is probably the reason, then. I do not recall, 
and then seeing this thing coupled with it — he refers to there, we 
haven't completed — instead of just giving us the list of names, they 
had to give us addresses and names of people who were chairmen. 

Mr. Gallman, Let's see the check stubs. 

Mr. Nelson. What's the date on that ? 

Mr. Weitz. You are looking now at the Lilly exhibit No. 27. 

Mr. Nelson. I am wondering if they were written, and then it 
was decided that it was not complete enough to go ahead. [Pause.] 
April 26. 

Mr. Weftz. They are all April 26, 1971. 

Mr. Nelson. I have no independent recollection of it, but just from 
seeing these exhibits, I would say that the delay was caused because 
all they gave us was the names and not sufficient information to go 
ahead. 

Mr. Weffz. At the bottom of the last sentence of the letter, June 
16, 1971, the Harrison exhibit that I was just showing you, reads as 
follows : "Sometimes it is difficidt to honor a commitment." 

What commitment was Mr. Harrison referring to ? 

Mr. Nelson. I assume that he was referring to the fact that we were 
committed to the proposition that we would raise large sums of money. 

Mr. Weitz. Perhaps $2 million ? 

Mr. Nelson. Or more. I don't know Avhy people do not want to 
accept that fact. 

Mr. Weitz. If you give us a higher figure, we'll accept that. 

Mr. Nelson. I want to make it clear, it was one of those areas where 
there was no specific amount, because w^e could never get them to give 
the committees, to even get a portion of it. That's the only point I 
want to make. 

Mr. Weitz. I want to show you a letter, dated June 29, 1971, which 
I will mark as exhibit No. 12, which is from Mr. Harrison to you 
concerning the subject matter of contributions with an attached list 
of committee names. This is June 29. 

Do you remember that letter, or anything in connection with that 
transaction ? 

[Whereupon, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 
No. 12 for identification.*] 

Mr. Nelson. I remember that there were, that these sort of lists 
were sent by Mr. Harrison. Obviously, I cannot remember the specific 
letter. 

Mr. Weitz. If you look at the list of names, none of them indicate 
President Nixon's name or the President's name or a reference to 
the President, is that correct ? 

Mr. Nelson. Insofar as I recall — do you want me to look at that? 
But insofar as I recall, I do not recall any of them ever listing the 
President's name. They were misleading. 

Mr, Weitz. In that connection, did INIr. Isham eA^er discuss with 
you the legality of the committees or the legality of TAPE making 
contributions without some assurance that they were in fact in sup- 
port of President Nixon's reelection ? 

♦Seep. 6723. 



6645 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall, but he probably did. 

Mr. Wefpz. Let me show you exhibit No. 13, a letter dated July 8, 
1971, from Harrison to Isham, I-s-h-a-m, which is an opinion letter 
with an attached list of committee names indicating- that the attached 
list of connnittees are bona fide committees capable of receiving con- 
tributions. 

["Whereupon, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 
No. 1-3 for identification*] 

Mr. Weitz. Does that refresh your recollection ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, it does, because I believe Mr. Isham asked me to 
get ]Mr, Harrison to write this letter, and as I recall, I called Mr. 
Harrison and asked him to write the letter, and he did. 

That last paragraph takes on significance in view of the fact of 
what I understand happened to one of those checks. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you want to read that if you think it has some 
significance ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I am just talking. 

Mr. Weftz. ok. 

In your deposition in the case Nader v. Butz on page 60 you were 
asked about why there were only checks issued to 50 committees, 
and a number of other checks later in August by the other two 
trusts, and tlien in September. The question goes: "Well, you seem 
to be saying, if I understand your testimony, that a commitment was 
made and tlie money was delivered as requested." And that would be 
referring to the timing of contributions, and you said : "That's right. 
That's the way it operates." 

Is that your recollection, that contributions were made in install- 
ments, so to speak, based upon earlier commitments ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, based on the fact that, just as I have told you, 
we told them from the word "go," that we would make large contri- 
butions. And I know people have a difficult time believing that we had 
the money and were ready to contribute it, and you couldn't get the 
committees. But now I suppose it is not so difficult for you all since you 
have the documentary evidence here of how long it took us to get 
committees that you could properly issue a check to. 

I fail to see anything so difficult about forming committees. 

JNIr. Weitz. So you were willing to contribute, as you have said 
all along in your testimony, so long as the committees were provided 
to you I 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. 

Mr. Weitz. And it was really up to the recipients to determine 
when you would contribute — when they would provide you with 
committees ? 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall in the summer of 1971, in connection with 
either these or any later contributions of any persons that you dis- 
cussed this with at AMPI or any of your attorneys, or any of the other 
dairy trusts? 

Let's take Mr. Parr. Did you discuss these contributions with Mr. 
Parr? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. He was aware that contributions were being made? 

♦Seep. 6730. 



6646 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Tliis Avas in a sense a followiip to the earlier conversa- 
tions with Mr. Kahnbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Parr, I do not believe — ^he may have been in the 
meeting with Mr. Kalmbach, but I would say his view would be that 
it would be a followup conversation with Colson. Let's get this in the 
right posture. Mr. Kalmbach was not the one to whom these protesta- 
tions were made. They were made to Mr. Colson. "We were referred 
to Kalmbach as being the man who would give us the counnittees, you 
see. 

Mr. Weitz. So Mr. Colson received the information about what 
you were interested in doing, and Mr. Kalmbach would actually pro- 
vide the committees and actually oversee the making of the 
contribution ? 

Mr. Nelson. And then at the tail end of the thing, just as I was 
going out as general manager, w^e were still discussing with Mr. Kalm- 
bach getting committees. 

Mr. Weitz. I understand that, but before we get to that, did Mr. 
Parr ever question in 1971 why or to whom the contributions were 
being made? Was he fully aware why they were being made and 
to whom they were being made ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. How about INIr. Lilly ? Was he aware of them ? 

Mr. Nelson. Of these TAPE contributions ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. How about the people in the other dairy trusts — Gary 
Hanman? As a result of these earlier conversations did he know you 
were making contributions ? 

Mr. Nelson. They knew. If you mean, did he know the detail 
of every committee and all of that; no. But he knew we were making 
contributions to the committees fui-nished to us by Marion Harrison. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you aware of the contributions that they were 
making, SPACE and" ADEPT ? 

Mr. Nelson. If you mean Mr. Parr was aware, and I was in a gen- 
eral sort of way. 

Mr. Weitz. And of course Mr. Harrison was providing names of 
committees, so he was aware. 

What about Mr. Chotiner? Were you ever in contact with him? 

Mr. Nelson. I did not discuss the details of this with Mv. Chotiner, 
as I recall. I think this was pretty well handled by Mr. Harrison, 
this aspect. 

Mr. Weitz. You have referred to it once before. 

Did there come a time in the fall of 1971, after some of these con- 
tributions liad been made, that it was bi-ouglit to your attention that 
there was some irregularity in connection with the committees to which 
you had contributed moneys for the President ? 

Mr. Net.son. I cannot tell vou exactly when, but IVfr. Tsham told me 
that — ^well, I believe it was in the papers first — one of the first things 
that I remember was that one of these men had said that he was not 
the chairman of any such committee, he knew nothing about it and 
so on. And I believe tlie newspaper account said that he had com- 
plained to the Clerk of the House. 



6647 

Then we got a bunch of unfavorable publicity in Eastern newspapers 
about it. 

Mr. AVeitz. I have liere a letter whicli I will mark as exhibit No. 
14, with attachments from Isliam to Harrison, dated October 4, 1971, 
in connection witli the matter of irreguhir committees, and a copy to 
Mr. Nelson, :Mr. Lilly and Mr. Parr. 

Is that some of the correspondence that related to those irregular 
conmiittoes ^ 

[Whereupon, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 
No. 14 for identification.*] 

Mr. Nelsox. This is the sort of tiling I am talking about. 

]Mr. AVeitz. How was that matter ultimately resolved with respect 
to the irregular committees with the wrong chairmen? 

Mr. Nelsox. I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Let's go off the record. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Weitz. Back on the record. 

Now, I believe you said that Mr. Jacobsen, and on one occasion 
Mr. Lilly, talked to INIr. Connally with respect to the milk price sup- 
port matter, and you understood that perhaps he had talked to others 
in the administration about that matter ; is that correct? 

Mr. Nelson. I assumed that he had. 

Mr. Weitz. Did there come a time, sometime after the next 2 
or 3 months, let's say, after the increase in the milk price support 
level, in which Mr. Lilly talked to you about a request for money 
for ]Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No; not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. To your knowledge, was any money or moneys ever made 
available to Mr. Jacobsen for Mr. Connally or to Mr. Connally by 
Mr. Lilly or anyone in connection with TAPE or AMPI? 

Mr. Nelsox. t was not aware of that. I did not recall this, and I 
do not recall it now. I had no awareness of it that I recall until after 
I was called up here to meet with the prosecutors. Mr. Jacobsen ad- 
vised my attorneys at that time that Mr. Lilly had given him $10,000 
to be used for such ])olitical purposes as Mr. Connally might wish to 
designate, and Mr. Connally had accepted it and that he had it in his 
locked lx)x. 

Mr. Weitz. This is what Mr. Jacobsen informed your attorney? 

Mr. Nelsox^. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall talking to Mr. Lilly about anything re- 
lated to that transaction ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you ever recall that Mr. Lilly talked to you about 
a request of money for Mr. Jacobsen, a request that came from Mr. 
Jacobsen or a request concerninof money to go to Mr. Jacobsen? 

Mr. Nelsox. For Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Weitz. To Mr. Jacobsen for whatever purpose? 

Mr. Nei^ox. No, no. 

Mr. Weitz. You said before that normally Mr. Lilly or Mr. Parr or 
others did not act with respect to political matters, political contribu- 
tions without either checking with you and getting your specific au- 
thorization or acting consonant with previous discussions they had 
had with you. 



•See p. 6742. 

30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 18 



6648 

Mr. Nelson. Or Avitli what they, in their jiidg-i-nent, knew I would 
approve of. 

Mr. Weitz. Had you ever discussed making moneys avaiLable to 
Mr. Jacobsen for political purposes? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Plad you ever discussed Mr. Lilly's making moneys 
available for political funds from AMPI's funds for whomever 
would ask for it ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't know. I really do not get wliat you are driving 
at. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, your attornev was informed by jNIr. Jacobsen that 
Mr. Lilly gave him $10,000 for l\Ir. Connally. You have told us that 
you do not recall discussing witli INIr. Lilly that matter, that request. 

Mr. Nelson. No, but Mr. Lilly would have known if Mr. Jacobsen 
wanted $10,000 to contribute for political purposes at ]\Ir. Connally's 
direction, he would have known that I would have approved that. 

Mr. Weitz. Would it refresh your recollection if — well, does it re- 
fresh your recollection that Mr. Lilly told you of this request by Mr. 
Jacobsen and asked you how he should obtain the money, and you 
said you would confer witli Mr. Parr about it? 

Mr. Nelson. That I would confer with Mr. Parr about it ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. Did you ever talk to Mr. Parr about a request for 
money by Mr. Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall talking to Mr. Parr about that either, 
and I would think that it would not be. I do not see the logic in my 
talking to Mr. Parr about it. 

Mr. Weitz. "\^^Iat was the source of the money that went to Mr. 
Jacobsen? 

Mr. Nelson. T do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. "V^Hiat did INIr. Jacobsen do with the money ? 

Mr. Nelson. What they told me was that he kept it in his locked 
box. 

Mr. Weitz. Did TAPE report that transaction ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. If it was TAPE money, TAPE would have had to re- 
port it, wouldn't it ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. If it was AMPI money, how would it have been 
reported ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. Lilly borrowed moneys for 
political purposes in addition to the original loan that we have talked 
about ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, he did. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether he borrowed money to satisfy 
the request by jNIr. ffacobsen in this instance? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. You say he did borrow money subsequent to the original 
loan that we talked about? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. For political purposes? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And he was repaid in those instances in the same manner 
that he was repaid, or he was given money to repay the loan in those 



6649 

subsequent instances in the same manner in which he was paid for the 
original loan, is that correct ? 

Mr. Nelsox. That is my understanding, yes. 

Mr. "Weitz. From various lawyers and consultants of AMPI? 

Mr. Nelsox. Mr. Lilly would have to tell you which. I cannot. But 
that is the same manner. 

]Mr. Weitz. Clearly, if he was repaid in that manner it would have 
been corporate funds paying Mr. Lilly to cover loans which he took 
out for political purposes? 

Mr. Nelson. Right. 

jSIr. Weitz. Did he ever get your approval for any of these subse- 
quent transactions ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Do you mean each time he would make a loan, did he ? 
No. 

Mr. Weitz. That's right, or in any of those instances, did he ever tell 
you about them ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Oh, I was aware he was making loans. 

Mr. Weitz. And he was acting with your approval? 

INIr. Nelsox. There is no question about that, yes. But as I recall, he 
did not come and say to me, "now, I'm going to get a loan for this and 
that." It was a continuing problem and he solved it. He knew it was 
with my approval. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether he discussed the matter with Mr. 
Parr? 

Mr. Nelsox. I would doubt very seriously whether he discussed it 
with Mr. Parr. 

Mr. Weitz. Why? 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, No. 1, 1 would rather let Mr. Lilly say this than 
I, but he was never a big admirer of Mr. Parr's. They never were too 
close. And No. 2, I think that ]\Ir. Lilly would have considered Mr. 
Parr to be one who would not maintain the confidentiality of some- 
thing, 

Mr. Weitz. Were any of these other moneys — did any of these other 
transactions these subsequent loans involve moneys that Mr. Lilly made 
available for Presidential campaigns or Presidential candidates. 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, I do not know. You will have to get the list from 
Mr. Lilly. 

Mr. Gallmax. Just a minute. 

Mr. Weitz. Off the record. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Nelsox. He reminds me that you were out of the room when 
there were some questions, I believe from your colleague here, about 
$15,000 or $10,000 in Mills' Presidential campaign that Lilly delivered. 
That has already been testified to. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. 

Mr. Saxders. With Hamilton in here we got into the Mills' money. 

Mr. Weitz. That is fine. OK. And if you want to return to it later, 
that is fine. 

But other than Mills, you do not recall any other transaction involv- 
ing Lilly of moneys that went to Presidential candidates? 

Mr. Nelsox. No. I do not. Lilly would know. 

Mr. Weitz. I have one other area I want to cover before I recess. 

Mr. Gallmax. Just a minute here. 



6650 

Mr. Weitz. Off the record. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Nelson. You are talking about the 1972 campaign ? 

Mr. Weitz. The 1972 campaign, but of course transactions that 
might precede it, the years preceding. 

Mr. Nelson. I understand tliat. That is what I am talking about. 

Mr. Weitz. All right. I have one other area I want to ask you about 
before our recess. 

Do you know how much money was contributed by TAPE to each 
of the committees provided by :Mr. Harrison in the middle of 1971 ? 

Mr. Nelson. Generally, $2,500. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there one exception to that that you know of? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did there come a time when he, in fact, asked you for 
a $5,000 contribution to another committee? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Can you tell us about that ? 

Mr. Nelson. I have told you all I know about it. It was brought to 
my attention when I Avas told that there were suggestions that the 
money had been used in the Ellsbcrg break-in, to finance it. 

Mr. Weitz. Let's step bade for a minute. Did you receive the request 
personally from Mr, Harrison ? 

Mr. Nelson. I could not tell you if I did or did not. 

Mr. Weitz. But you are aware of some additional request. When was 
this — August or September of 1971 ? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot tell you. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know when the contribution was made? 

Mr. Nelson. I would have to see the check. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall delivering the check to Mr. Harrison at 
the 1971 annual convention? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did vou ever deliver any checks to Mr. PTarrison? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I possibly did. but I do not have any independent 
recollection of delivering any checks to him. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember any request for one particular con- 
tribution with a great deal of urgency in terms of time? 

Mr. Nelson. No; I will tell vou franklv thnt all of the checks that 
they requested were practically that way. That was one of their 
problems. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall anv other request, or one request in which 
there was only one other contribution requested, in addition to all 
the others ? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; and T do not recall that one. 

Mr. Wettz. So, aside from what you have read in the papers and 
been asked by the prosecutors you have no independent recollection 
of that transaction ? 

Mr. Nelson. No : T do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know or have you ever heard anvthino; concern- 
ing any moneys that were being raised by Mr. Colson for any of 
his operations ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. .. ' 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know George Webster ? 



6651 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I do not. I know who he is because Marion Harri- 
son told me who he is. 

Mr. Weitz. Who is lie ? 

Mr. Nelson. He is a Washino-ton— to put it in the phrase used in 
the newspapers, he is a ''prominent AVashington attorney." 

]\Ir. Weftz. Do you know of the firm of Wagner & Baroody ? 

Mr. Nelson. I'm aware of that firm, yes, sir. 

Mr. Wenz. Were they in the employ of AMPI at any particular 
time ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Could j^ou tell us what time? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Would that have been before 1971 ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't believe so. It could have been. 

Mr. Weitz. AVliat does Wagner & Baroody do ? What type of firm 
is it? 

Mr. Nelson. I think it is — I am under the impression that it is a 
public relations firm. 

Mr. Weitz. You are under the impression ? You do not know your- 
self? 

Mr. Nelson. I have no experience with them at all. 

]Mr. Weitz. You said that it was an employee of AMPI, and as 
general manager you have responsibility for hiring and firing em- 
ployees, consultants, and so forth. 

Did you hire Wagner & Baroody ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk with them ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. AAHio recommended that you hire them ? 

Mr. Nelson. It was recommended — I will tell you frankly, I have 
no independent recollection of this, but I talked to Marion Harrison, 
and he did not have any independent recollection of it until he talked 
to some attorney, he told me, who said, and refreshed his memory 
on it, and then he talked to me about it, that it was recommended 
that Wagner & Baroody be employed by AMPI as a public relations 
representative in Washington because we needed someone, and the 
recommendation was made by INIr. Colson. 

Mr. Weptz. To Mr. Harrison ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weftz. And Mr. Harrison told you of Mr. Colson's recommen- 
dation ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes ; Mr. Harrison and I discussed it and said, "Well, 
you know, what are they going to do for us," and did not do anything 
about it. 

Mr. Weitz. You did not do anything about it ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Weitz. You did not hire them ? 

Mr. Nelson. Not then. 

IVIr. Weitz. When was this recommendation ? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot tell you. I cannot tell you when we had this. 

Mr. Weitz. I^t me tell you this. If the records of AINIPI showing 
billings from Wagner & Baroody covering the period beginning in 



6652 

October of 1970, does tliat refresh your recollection as to when they 
were first hired ? 

Mr. Nelson. I would say shortly before that. 

Mr. Weitz. Docs that refresh your recollection as to how much 
before that time that j' ou liad this discussion with Mr. Harrison ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Sometime that year ? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, yes. It would have been reasonably close to that. 

Mr. Weitz. Would it have been in the time in 1970 that you were 
also meeting with Mr. Colson from time to time ? 

Mr. Nelson. Sure, I'm sure it was. 

Mr. Weitz. You never talked to him directly about Wagner & 
Baroody ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not believe so. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk to him in general about public relations 
firms or the need for public relations firms by AIMPI ^ 

Mr. Nelson. No; I think all this was handled by him talking to 
Mr. Harrison. 

Mr. Weitz. Why didn't you follow his recommendation at the out- 
set when it was first made to you ? 

Mr. Nelson. We did not see what they were going to do for us. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Colson or Mr. Harrison indicate how much 
they thought Wagner & Baroody should be paid or would ask for 
their services ? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall, it was $25,000. 

Mr. Weitz. $25,000 a year ? 

Mr. Nelson. I think that is what it was. I might be wrong, but that 
is the figure that kind of sticks in my mind. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it ever indicated to you that iSIr. C^olson Avanted 
you to hire them because they were friends of his or he had some 
other projects for them ? 

Mr. Nelson. No; it was not. It was just suggested that we hire 
them. 

Mr. Weitz. Did they make any other suggestions with respect to 
hiring firms or consuhing firms of any sort ? 

Mr. Nelson. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. This was the only reconunendation that ]\Ir. Colson ever 
made through Mr. Plarrison to you ? 

Mr. Nelson. [Nods in the affirmative.] 

Mr. Weitz. This is the only recommendation that anyone made to 
you al^out hiring firms ? 

Mr. Nelson. As far as I know. 

Mr. Weitz. At a later time did Mr. Harrison ask you again about 
hiring firms? 

Mr. Nelson. AVell, at a later time, yes. Mr. Colson 

Mr. Weitz. Insisted? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, let's say — tliat miglit be a strong way to put it, 
but urged. Repeated the request is a better way. 

Mr. Weitz. Again to Mr. Harrison? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Harrison again relayed that to you ? 

Mr. Nelson. And we decided that Ave had better do it. 

Mr. Weitz. Why ? 



6653 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, because it had been suggested by Mr. Colson was 
the only reason. 

]Mr. AVeitz. Did you feel if you did not hire the firm at Mr. Colson's 
repeated request tliat you somehow might lose some favor or it might 
impede your efforts with Mr. Colson ? 

Mr. Nllsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there anything stronger to it than that ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you then contact the Wagner firm ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not believe I did. 

Mr. Weitz. You said you never talked to them ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I don't believe I've ever talked to them. 

Mr. Weitz. Either IMr. Wagner or Mr. Baroody ? 

Mr. Nelsox. If I have, I draw a total blank on that. 

Mr. Weitz. Who hired them — who talked to them ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I assume Mr. Harrison did. I have not asked him that, 
but I assume that's the way it was done. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate that he knew the firm or any of the 
gentlemen in the firm ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I believe — I don't think — Mr. Harrison ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

]Mr. Nelsox. I believe Mr. Harrison indicated that he did not laiow 
tliem. IVIr. Harrison was not urging that this be done until the 
second 

Mr. Weitz. Until the second message? 

Mr. Nelsox. Then after the second time 

Mr. Weitz. He advised you to do so ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. Well, yes. That's right. 

]\Ir. Weitz. At the second conversation, was it explained to you or 
did you discuss what the firm would do for their fee ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No. 

Mr. Weitz. And to your laiowledge they were hired for AMPI? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. We paid them. I know that. 

Mr. Weitz. And if the billings for AMPI indicate a fee from October 
1970 through January 1972 of $2,500 a month, is that consistent with 
■«^our recollection ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Let's see, that would be 

Mr. Weitz. That would be $30,000 a year. 

Mr. Nelsox. That's close enough. 

Mr. Weitz. To your knowledge, did any employee at AMPI ever 
meet with or talk to anybody from the Wagner & Baroody firm ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Weitz. '\^niat did they do for their fee ? 

[No response.] 

Mr. Weitz. Nothing to your knowledge? 

Mr. Nelsox. I have said that repeatedly, nothing that I know of. 

IMr. Weitz. Do you know whether they did anything for Mr. Colson? 

Mr. Nelsox. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether they did anything for Mr. 
Harrison ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not know that they did. 

INIr. Weitz. Did you consider this in the nature of a contribution or 
gift of the firm to keep the favor of Mr. Colson ? 



6654 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I guess contribution is a better word. 

Mr. Weitz. Did this have anything, to your knowledge, to do with 
the special projects referred to in the Hillings letter ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't think so at all. 

Mr. Weitz. Not to your knowdedge ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Was the firm of Wagner & Baroody or any of their 
principals ever mentioned to you in connection wdth the contribution ? 
You have talked about the $5,000 contribution that was made at INIr. 
Harrison's request. 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know whether Mv. Colson had made that re- 
quest, b}^ the way, or was tliis just another request from Mr. Harrison? 

Mr. Nelson. It w^as just another request. To my recollection, it was 
just another request. I have no independent recollection of it. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Colson's name was never recommended in that 
connection ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Colson to your knowledge ever malce any rec- 
ommeiulation to you or to anyone representing AMPI about political 
contributions? 

Mr. Nelson. I think he did. I cannot tell you which ones or what 
I think he did — maybe to Mr. Harrison — suggested some committees 
or something. 

Mr. Weitz. Committees or candidates? 

Mr. Nelson. Maybe candidates. 

Mr. Weitz. Was this in connection Avith the 1970 senatorial cam- 
paign ? 

Mr. Nelson. I am not sure about that, but I believe he did. 

Mr. Weitz. Were vou not present at that meeting in liis office in the 
^Vhite House ? 

Mr. Nelson. What meeting? 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Colson and Mr. Harrison, where ]\Ir. Colson made 
particular suggestions about particular contrilmtions. 

Mr. Nelson. That's what I'm saving. I tliink he did. I cannot tell 
you wdiat candidates and so forth. 

Mr. Weitz. But other than that, were there any other instances in 
which you were aware that ISlr. Colson made recommendations for 
political contributions to eitlier vou, ]\Ir. Harrison, or anvone else 
at AMPI? 

Mr. Nelson. I assume that he had a lot to do with the getting of 
these committees. 

Mr. Weitz. The committees in 1071 for the President? 

Mr. Nelson. [Nods in the affirmative.] 

Mr. Weitz. Has Mr. Harrison ever told vou what Avas done with 
that $5,000 contribution ? 

Mr. Nelson. He has told me what he has been told and Avhat he has 
been asked about it, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he tell you what he did ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes; he told me what he liad done. 

Mr. Weitz. What did he do with the contribution ? 

Mr. Nelson. I may even remember Avhat he told me wrong, but it 
seems to me that he' took it to George Webster's office, or whatever 
Webster's first name is. 



6655 

Mr. Weitz. Did he mention the relationship to Wagner & Baroody 
of that contribution ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Or to Mr. Colson ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, that was in the newspapei*s. 

Mr. Weitz. But other than what you've read in the newspapers? 

Mr. Nelson. No; he told me how he took the check to George 
Webster. 

Mr. Weitz. Off the record. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Weitz. Let's recess for lunch. 

[Whereupon, at 12 :45 p.m., the committee recessed, to reconvene at 
1 :30 p.m. the same day.] 

Afternoon Session 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Nelson, I would just like to ask you a few more 
questions about the price support pressure in 1971 before I move on 
to 1972. One, have you ever seen the report to the general manager 
dated December 1, 1971, of AMPI to its board of directors? 

Mr. Nelson. A report of the general manager? 

Mr. Weitz. I am sorry, of the general manager of AMPI to its board 
of directors. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. There is one page I wanted to direct your attention to. 
Now, on page 14 of the report, it says, the full paragraph reads as 
follows : 

What we have done has been worth the doing. Adjustments in price supports 
were worth at least $300 million in income to dairy farmers. 

And this I think is referring to the TAPE program mentioned just 
before. 

Was that, and is that still, your evaluation of the benefit derived as 
a result of the price-support increase in 1971 ? 

Mr. Nelson. You have to underetand, that is to all dairy farmers. 

Mr. Weitz. As opposed to whom ? 

Mr. Nelson. As opposed to just members of Associated Milk Pro- 
ducers. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. 

I would like to mark as exhibit 15 a memorandum to you dated 
May 19, 1971, from George Mehren. 

[Whereupon, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 
No. 15 for identification.*] 

Mr. Weitz. Have you ever seen a copy of that memorandum — be- 
fore I question you with regards to specific items, do you recall the 
memorandum ? 

Mr. Nelson. I recall Dr. Mehren discussing these matters with me. 
I do not recall the memorandum, but the contents of it are familiar 
to me. 

Mr. Weitz. On page 2 of the memorandum, which is item No. 4, 
it refers — it goes as follows : 

Reference is made to alleged bragging by people affiliated with AMPI after 
the reversal of the price support decision. 

*See p. 6750. 



6656 

Were you aware of an}' such boasting or bragging or any such con- 
versations in the industry in that coiniection ? 

Mr. Nelson. I admonished tlie key people not to engage in that sort 
of thing, and I have no 

Mr. Weitz. Were those people involved in such 

Mr. Nelson. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Weitz. Wio did you admonish ? 

Mr. Nelson. Just anybody. People were pleased that the thing had 
been reversed. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you admonish Mr. Parr? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall specifically admonishing jNIr. Parr. 

Mr. Weitz. AVas he boasting or bragging ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall that he was. 

Mr. AVeitz. Item No. 15 in the memo, a portion of which reads as 
follows : 

My reaction is a fairly firm opinion tliat the Department has now decided to 
work with us. After talliing with Messrs. Palmby and Lyng, I spent some 20 
minutes on the patio witli the SecretaiT,'. Again, the reception was gratious and 
the tone of the conversation was warm. 

Purely as a guess, I suspect that the means for resolution of the price sup- 
port controversy has impressed tlie Department. I get the feeling that the 
Department officers have been instructed to cooperate with us. Accordingly, I 
have agreed periodically to discuss specific interests of AMPI with them. 

Do you know what Dr. Mehren was referring to when he refers to 
"the means for resolution of the price support controversy'' ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes ; I would think that he was referring to the fact 
that we took the decision to the President. 

Mr. Weitz. And that the President overruled the Secretary? 

Mr. Nelson. I know that the press has reported that the Secretary 
said that he was against it and so forth, but I vStill think that Secretary 
Hardin is enough of an agricultural economist that he recognized 
the validity of our position and he was overruled by the Council of 
Economic Advisers, wliich is a customary thing in any administration. 
It happens in all of them, and I do not think Secretary Hardin was 
ever unhappy that we got our facts before the President, and that the 
decision was made. 

He raised a question of oversupply, which certainly did not 
materialize. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he raise that question at the meeting wnth the 
President ? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall, I do not believe he said anything there, 
He probably did, since it was an agricultural thing, but really, I do 
not recall that he said anything in that meeting. He may have said, 
you know, a word or two. but 2iot very much. 

I did not view Secretary Hardin — I want to say this. I did not view 
Secretary Hardin as an adversary. 

Mr. Weitz. What about the position taken bv Under Secretary 
Campbell? 

Mr. Nelson. I did not view Tender Secretary Campbell as an adver- 
sary. I viewed him making the statement that he made solely because 
he was in the posture of defending a position that had been taken by 
his superior, the Secretary. 

Mr. Weitz. But at least ostensibly, he had defended the jDosition 
at the meeting with the President ? 



6657 

Mr. Nelson. Not vigorously; he just raised that as one possibility. 
He was not an adversary in the nieeting with the President. 

Mr. Weitz. I did not say an adversary, but he spoke up in favor 
of the position that had been taken ^ 

Mr. Nelson. No, he just said there is one thing to take into con- 
sideration in deciding — there is one thing to be considered in reaching 
a decision as to whether or not this decision to maintain the supports 
at the level of last year shoidd be made, and that is the question of 
what will it do to— insofar as attracting additional supplies of milk. 

Those are my words and not his, but that is the sense of it. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, I would like to turn your attention to principally 
1972. I believe that you said before, you testified to some mixup that 
had occurred and some publicity in 1971 as a residt of the contri- 
butions to a number of the multiple committees provided by Mr. 
Harrison. 

Was there an}^ discussion or decision in late 1971 to try to either 
delay further contributions for a time, or to lind an alternative means 
to make additional contributions? 

Mr. Nei^sox. In 1971 ? 

Mr. Weitz. Late 1971, before the President's reelection. 

Mr. Nelsox. Not that I recall. 

Mr. AVeitz. Was there anything that grew out of any discussion of 
Avhether or not additional contributions should be made, and if so, 
how that resulted from the publicity and so forth in the fall of 1971 ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Not that I recall. I did not know any other way to 
do it. 

Mr, Weitz. Did there come a time in 1972 when you met with Mr. 
Kalmbach with respect to political contributions? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. By the way, did you meet with Mr. Kalmbach after the 
meeting on March 24, and before 1972 ? 

Mr. Nelsox. T^t us go otf the record for a minute, if I may. 

Mr. Weitz. All right. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Weitz. Back on the record. 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not recall ; I may have. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk to anyone from any fundraisers? 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, that is all I recall. 

Mr, Weitz. Did you have any further meetings in 1971 with Mr. 
Colson ? 

Mr. Nelsox. The dates bother me. I cannot remember when it was 
that we were talking about the decision on the Tariff Commission's 
recommendations, and the attempt to get a proclamation from the 
President, 

Mr, Weitz, With regard to cheese or the other products? 

Mr, Nelson, Either one or both, 

Mr. Weitz. There were some meetings in that connection in 1970. 
I do not know about 1971. 

Mr. Nelsox. I probably did not haA^e any additional meetings with 
him. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you meet with Mr. Colson with respect to getting 
the President to attend the 1971 convention ? 



6658 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, we met — well, wait a minute. That was pretty well 
set when we met in September, the latter part of September 1970, is 
when we met with the President, and discussed with him personally 
his speaking at the 1971 convention. 

Mr. Weitz. And you met again of course, with the President in 
March 1971. After that time, did you meet again with Mr. Colson to 
arrange for the President's attendance at the 1971 convention? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. And do you recall whether you met with ]\Ir. Kalmbach 
in 1971 after the price support increase? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not believe that we did. 

Mr. Weitz. You said there did come a time when you met with 
Mr. Kalmbach in 1972? 

Mr. Nelson. Right. 

Mr. Weitz. Approximately, Avhen was the first time you met with 
him? 

Mr. Nelson. In 1972? 

Mr. Weitz. In 1972. 

Mr. Nelson. Approximately, January 15 or 16. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that 1 or 2 days after you were replaced as general 
manager of AMPI ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is the reason I can fix the date, j^es. 

Mr. Weitz. TYlio arraiiged for tlie meeting ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Jacobsen. 

Mr. Weitz. Was this tlie first time that lie had arranged a meeting 
between you and Mr. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot tell you. I cannot tell you whether it was — I 
believe he arranged an earlier meeting that we had had with Mr. 
Kalmbach in an attempt — with Mr. Kalmbach and others — in an 
attempt to get these committees named. 

Mr. Weitz. \Vlien was that? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know. I can tell you Avhere it was. It was in the 
Madison Hotel, and those present were Tom Evans, Mv. Kalmbach, 
Marion Harrison, for a sliort period of time, a very short period of 
time while we were there, Mr. Colson. 

Mr. Weitz. Was this the meetiiig in November 1970, or sometime 
in 1970, to which we have already referred ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, that is the same meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Jacobsen arranged that meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. As I say, I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. I thought you were testifying that you thought Mr. Har- 
rison or Hillings had arranged that meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. It was either they or ]Mr. Jacobseii. I do not know 
which. 

Mr. Weitz. In addition to that meeting, and before the meeting in 
1972, in January of 1972 with Mr. Kalmbach, do you know of any other 
meetings wliich Mr. Jacobsen ■ 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall any. 

Mr. Weitz. Why did Mr. Jacobsen arrange the meeting and not 
Mr. Harrison or Mr. Cliotiner? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not believe that Mr. — I am not sure about how 
things were done over there. 



6659 

Mr. Weitz. These were your lawyers. 

Mr. Nelson. That is right ; they were my lawyers, but they all did 
different — 'they worked with different people. And Mr. Jacobsen was 
the one whose partner, Mr. Semer, had made the initial contact with 
Mr. Kalmbach. 

Mr. Weitz. That was over 2 years before ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. And Mr. Harrison and — they were work- 
ing through the contacts that Mr. Harrison had, that I was aware of, 
with Mr. Colson ; and I believe the first time Harrison was in a meet- 
ing with Kalmbach, was in that meeting that I told you about where 
we had been over to the Secietary's office. 

Mr. Weitz. September of 1970, but again, we are talking about early 
1972. And what I am asking you, was there any, to your recollection, 
any change in strategy or conscious effort to have someone else deal 
with Mr. Kalmbach rather than Mr. Harrison, or Mr. Harrison's firm ? 

Mr. Nelson. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ask Mr. Jacobsen to arrange the meeting with 
Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. For what purpose ? 

Mr. Nelson. Once again, to see what we could do about getting 
committees. 

Mr. Weitz. I think the records would show that you and the other 
dairy co-ops had received the names of 100 committees, and contribu- 
tions had been made to nearly all of them ; I think approximately 93 
of them. 

What was the need to meet with Mr. Kalmbach again ? Apparently 
the mechanism had been put into order. 

Mr. Nelson. It was not being followed through. 

Mr. Weitz. In other words, you wanted to make additional 
contributions ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. At least as much as had been made before ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall how much had been made before. 

Mr. Weitz. If the 100 committees had received $232,500, would it 
have been at least as much as that ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Why did you not make additional contributions to those 
same committees ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I do not — it had not occurred to me in the first 
place to make them to those same committees, I do not know that those 
were continuing and ongoing committees. And there had been a lot of 
unfavorable publicity in connection with the makeup or the locations, 
and the questions that I raised before and you showed me the articles 
about letters. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there not really a desire to find another method, or 
at least other committees or something? 

Mr. Nelson. Other committees of a more solid basis, a more credible 
basis. 

Mr. Weitz. Committees that perhaps had existed for other purposes, 
and had some other reason to exist, other than to receive contributions 
from you ? 



6660 

Mr. Nelson. No, I do not recall that as being 

Mr. Weitz, But at least other committees ? 

Mr. Nelson [continuing]. Just a valid — other committees, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss this with Mr. Harrison ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall that. 

Mr. Weitz. This interest in meeting with Mr. Kalmbach to getting 
other different types of committees ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall discussing this meeting with Mr. Har- 
rison. 

Mr. Weitz. What about this interest in getting different committees, 
different types of committees ? 

Mr. Nelson. We discussed tliat from time to time, and Mr. Harrison 
fully agreed, that this was just a poor way of doing it. He was a victim 
of it, you understand. They forced these committees on him. 

Mr. Weitz. Had Mr. Kalmbacli, between tlie time that you met with 
him in March of 1971 and the time that you met again with him in Jan- 
uary of 1972, indicated to anyone that he wanted to meet with you 
again or meet with the dairy people to discuss furtlier contributions? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe that the meeting that we have just been talking 
about was — I do not believe it was at his request. I believe it was at 
mine. 

Mr. Weitz. The one in January ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. I believe that is the way it was. 

Mr. Weitz. But had there been any earlier requests by Mr. Kalm- 
bach to meet with you, or to see about more money coming in from the 
dairy people? 

Mr. Nelson. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Where did this meeting take place in January of 1972? 

Mr. Nelson. In California, in Mr. Kalmbach's office. 

Mr. Weitz. And who was present ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Jacolisen, Mr. Kalmbach, and I. 

Mr. Weitz. And you place that at about January the 15th or 16th? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. How many days after were you replaced as general 
manager ? 

Mr. Nelson. Two or three. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you and Mr. Jacobsen fly out to California from 
Texas? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And flv back immediately after the meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Your sole purpose in going to California was to meet 
with Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. What took jilace at the meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. We just met with Mr. Kalmbach, and discussed the need 
for committees, and that is about the sum and substance of it. And it 
was agreed, as T recall, it was agreed that we would be back, or that Dr. 
Mehren would be back. 

Mr. Weitz. And by this time, of course, Dr. Mehren was general 
manager? 

Mr. Nelson. He was general manager when I left. 



6661 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss this meeting or tell Dr. Mehren of the 
meeting before yon left ? 

Mr. Nklson. We certainly did. Now, T am surprised — I have just 
read in the press where Dr. Mehren testified in the deposition in San 
Antonio that he was not aware that Mr. Jacobsen and I had the honor. 
We had not told him about the trip. 

But the fact is, and I could see how he might have forgotten, but the 
fact is that he asked me, was there anything pending that I needed to 
take care of, and so on. And I told him, that I did have this meeting 
with Mr. Kalmbach, and asked him whether he wanted me to do it, or 
whether he wanted to do it. And he told me to go ahead and go. And I 
took the jet. 

Mr. Weitz. The company jet? 

Mr. NEii^ox. Yes; and ^Ir. Jacobsen and T flew out in that jet and 
flew back, and then I reported to him about the meeting. And approxi- 
mately 2 weeks after that — approximately — Dr. Mehren, Mr. Jacobsen 
and I went back to California and met with Mr. Kalmbach. 

Mr. Wettz. In your conversation with Dr. Mehren either before the 
first meeting in January, or between the first and second meeting with 
Mr. Kalmbach, did he ask you whether any commitments had been 
made for political contributions? 

Mr. Nelson. I think he asked me what we were committed to do 
or 

Mr. Weitz. "WHiat you had told him ? 

INIr. Nelson. What we had told him. 

Mr. Weitz. Wliat did you tell him ? 

Mr. Nelson. I told him the same thing I have told everybody else, 
that we indicated that we would make large contributions, and had 
been unable to get the committees. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you indicate, for example, that the figure of $1 
or $2 million or more had been mentioned from time to time ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not remember giving him specific figures, but I 
indicated large sums. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ask for specific figures? 

Mr. Nelson. T do not recall that he did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you indicate that those intentions or commit- 
ments, however you want to characterize them, had been fully 
satisfied? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I told him they had not been. 

Mr. Weitz. So your understanding is that he asked you, and under- 
stood from yoTL that you represented that large contributions would 
be made, and that not all of those contributions represented had, in 
fact, been made? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right, but T do not mean that I represented 
to him that we had any contractural or anything that binding; but just 
as vou say. 

Mr. Wettz. Have you ever been a party to a contractural agreement 
to make political contributions? 

Mr. Nei^son. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Tn fact, it is unusual if ever such an agreement is entered 
into, but rather one states what one is going to contribute and goes 
ahead and makes those contributions? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 



6662 

Mr. Weitz. And you had made representations to Mr. Kalmbach 
and othere as to substantial contributions to be made, wliicli had not 
yet fully been made ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. That was my view. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you talk to JNIr. Kalmbacli about meeting or making 
substantial contributions but perhaps in lesser amounts than had 
previously been contemplated or mentioned ? 

Mr. Nelson. Do you mean in lesser installments? 

Mr. Weitz. No. 

You had spoken and he perhaps understood, either directly or in- 
directly of the amounts that liad been mentioned, and the fact that 
you had intended to make substantial contributions perhaps in excess 
of $2 million. 

Did you indicate in some way that you hoped or intended that con- 
tributions would be made, but that perhaps in lesser amounts or in an 
aggregate smaller than had originally been intended ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall doing that. 

Mr. Weitz. I would like to show you the portion that we have of 
a memorandum dated February 1, 1972 from Gordon Strachan to 
H. R. Haldeman, and tlie subject is political matters. We only have 
page 2 of the memorandum. 

Mr. Weitz. I do not expect you to be familiar with this particular 
memorandum, but let me read it to you. 

Kalmbach is very concerned al^ont liis involvement in the Milk Producers' 
situation. He believes that Jacobsen and Nelson will deliver, although they have 
cut the original $2,000 commitment back to .$1,000. Kalml»ach's concern centers 
around recent press disclosures that link .Jack (ileason and tlie 1970 campaign 
election funding. 

Kalmbach will accept the risk of being snbpenaed by the court in connection 
with the Nader milk suit. The Attorney Genei'al l)elieves Kalmbach should con- 
tinue to handle the milk project, but Kalmbach wants your advice. 

Recommendation that Kalmbach not be involved in the milk project, because 
of the risk of disclosure. 

Did you make a representation that your original commitment 
would be cut in half, or down to $1 million in your conversation with 
Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall that at all. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Jacobsen do so ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not tliink so. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he tell you that he was doing so, or was indicating 
to Mr. Kalmbach that the original commitment would be approxi- 
mately one-half ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not remember that. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you have any idea, if, in fact, INIr. Kalmbach told 
Gordon Strachan this as a result of that meeting in January, how 
Mr. Kalmbach arrived at that conclusion? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, he is bound to have — if he arrived at it as a 
result of that meeting on the basis of something that was said there, 
I do not recall having produced that amount. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you tell hiiri to the contrary, that the original 
commitment would be honored, or something to that effect ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes; that was the general tenor of the whole meeting. 
But you see, once again, there was never any specific amount, so when 
you say, well, they cut the specific amount in half, it is whether the 



6663 

oriofiiial agreement or whatever you want to call it ; it all depends on 
wliat your notion of the amount was. 

Mr. Weitz. Lot us say no spociHc amounts wore discussed at the 
niettina', but tliat ^Fr. Kahnbach was aware of previous discussions or 
tlie Ilillinas letter, or wliatever else had been discussed: so that he was 
aware, lot us say. of a $2 million representation or commitment. 

Mr. Xki.son'. But you see thouo-h, if jou followed that line of reason- 
ing, we had already, as you pointed out, made substantial contribu- 
tions. I do not remember what they were. 

Mr. Weitz. Close to one-quarter of a million dollars. 

Mr. Xeesox. You see. if you proceeded on the assumption that there 
was an original deal of $2 million, an original agreement $2 million 
cut to $1 million, then that would just leave $750,000 under that. 
Right? 

l\Ir. TW.iTz. Right: that is a substantial amoimt of money though. 

Mr. Nelsox. Oh. yes, it certainly is. 

j\fr. "Weitz. How did it come to pass that you met again with Mr. 
Kahnbach? "Was that arranged at the first meeting with him in 
Januai^? 

j\Ir. Nelsox. I believe it was agreed that we would be back in touch; 
as I recall, there was no specific date set at that time. Then we got back 
with Dr. ]Mohren. and it was agreed — I do not recall how it was agreed, 
but anyway, it was agreed— we would return there in approximately 
2 weeks after the date that we had returned from California. 

]\Ir. "Weitz. "Who arranged that second meeting? 

Mr. Nelsox'. I think Mr. Jacobsen. 

INIr. "Weitz. Between the first and second meetings, was there any 
further discussions with Mr. Kahnbach, other than Mr. Jacobsen ar- 
ranging for the meeting? 

IMr. Nelsox'. I do not believe so. 

Mr. Weitz. "Who was present at the second meeting? 

]\rr. Xeesox". Dr. INIehren, Mv. Jacobsen, and I, and as I recall, one 
of 'Sir. Kalml)ach''s partners. T do not remember his name. 

Mr. Weitz. One or two of his partners ? 

]Mr. Xelsox'. As I recall, it was one. It might have been two. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it Frank DeMarko? 

Mr. Nelsox'. I believe that is the name. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there a Robert Olson also present ? Do a- ou recall 
that? 

Mr. Xelsox'. T do not recall that. 

Mr. Weitz. And the meeting took place in California ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. It began in Mr. Kalmbach's law office ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. Yes. We ate breakfast or lunch, I forget which, at a 
club very close to the office. 

Mr. "\Yeitz. Did the three of you fly out from Texas to the meeting? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And you flew back after the meeting? 

Mr. jSTelsox". Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And the sole purpose of flying to California was this 
meeting with Mr. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Xelsox*. I do not believe tliere was any other business transacted 
at all. 



39-337 (book 15) O - '4 - 19 



6664 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us what was said at the meeting;, or the 
substance of what was said at the meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I will tell you. I cannot tell you — the net effect 
or result of the meeting was that Mr. Kalmbach was _i»-oino- to think 
about methods or the manner in which contributions should be re- 
ceived, and Dr. Mehren was g'oing- to return and consider whether or 
not contributions were groing- to be made. 

That is just about the best way I know how to put it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Kalmbach in a general, nonpressurized way in- 
dicate that they would appreciate support from the daily trusts or 
dairy people? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, he did not indicate that it would not be welcome, 
I will put it that way, as I recall. I do not think there was any evidence 
from ]Mr. Kalmbach at that point that they did not want the 
contributions. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Kalmbach make any sug-gfestions or g:ive any 
hypothetical examples of how additional contributions could be made 
or should be made ? 

l\Ir. Nelson. It seems to me some question came up about when. 

Mr. Weitz. Meaning: the timing;? 

Mr. Nelson. Meaning; the timing;, but I do not really recall the 
details. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall, for example, any discussion of one-third 
of a total contribution being; made in Febniary, and another third in 
March, and another quarter just before April Y, and the remainder 
after April Y ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall how it was put, but there was some dis- 
cussion about the desirability or undesirability, either way, of getting 
these contributions in before the deadline. 

Mr. Weitz. The deadline being April 7, 1972 ? 

Mr. Nelson. [Nods affirmatively.] 

Mr. Weitz. "\'\niat did you understand to be the significance of that 
deadline or that date ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, that was the date they felt the new legislation 
would lie effective requiring repoi-ting, 

Mr. Weitz. So the thnist of the discussion was, if contributions 
were to be made, how they might be made to minimize the reporting 
tliat would be required after April 7 ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, both of those ; how they should be made ; both be- 
fore and after. 

Mr. Weitz. And was there an indication that jVIr. Kalmbach pre- 
ferred that they be made prior to April 7 ? 

Mr. Net,son. T think, as T recall, we were discussing the method of 
doing — the desirability of doing some before, but also how it should be 
done after. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. 

Were there going to be a number of committees to receive the con- 
tributions prior to' April 7? Was that the suggested arrangement? 

Mr. Net-son. As I recall , yes. 

Mr. Weitz. What was Dr. INfehren's reaction to that? Did he have 
any reaction, or did he comment on that ? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall. Dr. Mehren preserved his options. 



6665 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate any displeasure with that suggestion, 
even if he did not ultimately reject it ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not recall that he did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you connnent on it ? 

]\Ir. Nelson. I do not recall that I did. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you in favor of additional contributions prior to 
April 7 by such an arrangement ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Would I have been ? 

IMr. Weitz. Were you ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, at that point, you see, I had no — I was trying 
to be very, let us say, chameleonlike, and just fade into the back- 
ground. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you express your opinion, or did Dr. Mehren ever 
ask for your opinion with i-es]>ect to contributions ? 

JNIr. Nelson. I do not believe that he did ; he may have. 

Mr. Weitz. How about Mr. Jacobsen? Did he express an opinion 
either during the meeting or after ? 

Mr. Nelson. I just do not remember that much about the meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. Were any figures discussed, any amounts of contribu- 
tions, even in the hypothetical sense ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall. 

]Mr. Weitz. Do you recall — was the figure of $350,000 discussed or 
mentioned ? 

Mr. Nelson. I just cannot tell you. I would say this though. In my 
mind at least, we were certainly talking abou', that much or more. 

Mr. WEnz. Was the figure of $750,000 discr.ssed ? 

Mr. Nelson. I just do not remember the figure, but it was sub- 
stantial. 

Mr. Weitz. Was a figure discussed or mentioned by anyone ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not remember. There probably was, but I just 
could not tell you what the figure was; if it was, in fact, mentioned. 

Mr. Weitz. What was the result of the meeting? How was it left? 

Mr. Nelson. Just as I said, that we would be back in touch. 

Mr. Weitz. Who was to take the initiative? What was the 
contingency ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not think it was clearly defined, as I remember, 
who was going to take the initiative. Dr. Mehren was going back, 
and he was going to consider, you know, whether and how much. And 
Mr. Kalml)ach Avas going to ex}ilore the ways and means, and I do 
not — undoubtedly one of them said who would call whom, but I do not 
remember. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Dr. Mehren ever tell you that he wanted to honor 
or intended to honor any commitments that had been made ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he do that before or after this meeting with Mr. 
Kalmbach, which he attended ? 

Mr. Nelson. He told me that immediately after the change, and I 
think he reiterated that on other occasions at later times. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me ask you this. In late 1971 or any time in 1971, 
had ]\Ir. Kalmbach come to you with additional committees in addition 
to the 100 committees ? 

Mr. Nelson. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. No ; I am asking had he done so. 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, had he done so. 



6666 

Mr. Weitz. Had he done so, would you have felt that you had repre- 
sented that you would make contributions to those additional com- 
mittees? 

]\Ir. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. WErrz. Did you consider that a commitment, as political con- 
tributions go ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. I would. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it a commitment on behalf of AINIPI or TAPE ? 

]Vfr. Nelson. To the extent that — yes. It was made on their behalf. 

Mr. Weitz. When Dr. Mehren asked you — did he ask you whether 
any commitments had been made ? I believe I have asked you this, and 
1 l)elieve you said, "he did." 

Mr. Nelson. Yes ; he wanted to know what major obli<2;ations we had. 

Mr. Weitz. So you had recounted what had gone on, and in your 
mind, that amounted to a commitment ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you tell him so ? 

Mr. Nelson. I told him how I felt about it, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. That you had made a representation that they were 
expecting 

Mr. Nelson. Yes ; and the only reason that it had not been carried 
out previously was that they had not given us the committees. 

Mr. Weitz. So, therefore, when Dr. INIehren took over and said that 
he would honor commitments that liad been made, was he not, in effect, 
telling you that he would make contributions sufficient to satisfy what 
lie construed to be the representations of the prior year ? 

Mr. Nelson. I think he was — well, in a sense, yes, but I think when 
he was saying those commitments, he was dealing in things in addi- 
tion to, and not limited to, political matters. 

Mr. Weitz. But including political matters? 

Mr. Nelson. But including them, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Now l)etween the February meeting, that we have 
described 

Mr. Nelson. And I want to say this, too. Different people put a 
different construction on given situations. In my own mind, it was 
a continuing commitment that had not been fulfilled ; in other minds, 
they might have said it was fulfilled, you gave all of the committees, 
for which they furnished you names, and you had. 

I could see liow they could argue that way, but that was not the way 
] felt. You asked me how I felt about it, and I am telling you in all 
candor. 

Mr. Weitz. On the other hand, you had asked Mr. Jacobsen to 
contact ]\Ir. Kalmbach in January with the purpose of obtaining com- 
mittees to make additional contributions ? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall, I was the movement on that. I am not posi- 
tive Mr. Kalmbach — it might have been the other way. 

Mr. Weitz. Were not the two meetings tliat took place — one in 
January and one in Fel:)ruary 1972 — for the puiposc and the result 
of trying to find ways to make additional contributions ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

]\Ir. Weitz. The only new factoi-, or one of the new factors was Dr. 
Mehren's rejilacement of you, and his decisionmaking authority. 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 



6667 

Mr. Weitz. That was tlie new ingredient, but yet he said he wanted 
to honor existing coniniitnicnts, both in the i)olitical area and else- 
where. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

IMr. Wiorrz. Between tlie second meeting with Mr. Kalmbach, there 
was a time wlien you met him again. Is that not true ? 

INIr. Nelson. Two weeks later, about 2 weeks later. 

Mr. Weitz. Some time in February or March. Could it have been 
as late as March 1972 ( 

Mr. Nelson. It could have been. 

Mr. "Weitz. Between the second, and shall we call it the third 

Mr. Nelson. "Wait a minute. There was a meeting 2 days, 2 to 3 
days after I was replaced as general manager. And then there Avas 
another meeting approximately 2 weeks after that, as I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Early February ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is the one I have just talked about. Then follow- 
ing that, there was another meeting in Washington. - 

Mr. Weitz. All right. 

Between the second, and what we will call the third meeting — before 
we get to the third meeting— were there any contacts, to your knowl- 
edge, between you or anyone else on behalf of AINIPI and Mr. 
Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe that Dr. Mehren talked to him a time or two 
on the phone. I am not sure about that, but I believe he did. 

JNIr. Weitz. Do you Icnow what was discussed, or what the substance 
of those conversations were ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, forming committees and what have you. I do 
not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Dr. INIehren talk to you about any of those contacts ? 

Mr. Nelson. I am not sure whether he did or did not. I think he 

^Ir. Weitz. How did you come to know of those contacts. 

Mr. Nelson. Either Dr. INIehren told me, or when we got in the 
meeting in Washington, they were referred to. I believe he probably 
told me that he had had a phone conversation, or conversations. I just 
do not remember that. 

]Mr. Weitz. To your knowledge, was a decision made between the 
second and third meeting, or befoi'e the meeting in Washington with 
Mr. Kalmbach as to whether or not Dr. Mehren and TAPE would 
make additional contributions? 

Mr. Nelson. Well. I am under the impression, as I recall, the deci- 
sion was made that they would. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that Dr. INIehren's decision, or do you know whether 
he consulted with TAPE committee members about that? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know. I do not recall. 

INIr. Weitz. How did you come to meet with ]\Ir. Kalmbach in AYash- 
ington? YHio arranged that meeting? 

]Mi-. Nelson. I assume Mr. Jacobsen. 

Mr. Weitz. And who was present at the meeting? 

]Mr. Nelson. Dr. Mehren asked me to accompany him and IMr. Jacob- 
sen to that meeting, and, as I recall, Mr. Kalmbach. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Before we get to the meeting, I am still trying to ascer- 
tain the attendance and the circumstances leading up to the meeting. 

Did you fly to AYashinglon with Dr. Mehren? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall. 



6668 

Mr. Weitz. Was it solely to meet with Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nklson. I believe so. That was the main reason for being there. 

Mr. Weit/. Do you recall when the meeting- took place ? 

Mr. Nelson. It took place, I believe, around 10 or 11 in the morning. 
I might be wrong ; it might have been noon. 

Mr. Weitz. What about the date ? Do you recall approximately when 
in time it took place ? 

Mr, Nelson. No. I could not tell you. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you associate it with a meeting — when T say "associ- 
ated," I mean in terms of time ? 

Mr. Nelson. There was another meeting that day, if that is what you 
mean. 
■ Mr. Weitz. Was that a meeting with Mv. Connally ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. So it was on the same day that you met with Mr. 
Connally? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Off the record. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

INIr. Weitz. Could you tell us what took place at the meeting with 
Mr. Kahnbach in Washington? 

INIr. Nelson. Yes. It was a very brief meeting, and Mr. Kalmbach 
advised us that at that time they did not wish to give us the names of 
committees or receive any contributions. 

Mr. Weitz. You have referred to another meeting that day with 
Mr. Connally. Was this meeting with Mr. Kalmbach before or after 
that meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. Before. 

Mr. Weitz. Before the meeting with ISIr. Connally? 

Mr. Nelson. [Nods affirmatively.] I will tell you why I am able to 
place it that way. 

Mr. Weitz. Wiy are you able to place it that way ? 

Mr. Nelson. Because Dr. ^lehren had a dinner engagement that 
evening with one of his friends, a ]:)ersonal deal, who is head of a re- 
tail grocer's association, or some chain store deal or something. And 
Jake suggested that we could go by and see Secretary Connally and 
Dr. Mehren, as the new manager of AMPI, could meet him. And this 
was, as I recall, around 2 or 3 in the afternoon. 

Mr. Weitz. The meeting for Mr. Connally was set at that time ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right, so Dr. INIehren said fine, or there was 
some alternative there as to times, and Dr. INIehren said, "I can do that 
and still have dimier with my friend." 

We had the meeting with Mr. Connally and looked at our watches 
and said, shoot, we could make the 5 o'clock plane at Dulles or what- 
ever it Avas, and we were on the airplane, and it dawned on Dr. Mehren 
that he had left Washington, and had a dinner engagement with his 
friend, and the poor guy was sitting some place waiting for him, and 
he was on an airplane heading to San Antonio: and it was the source 
of consideral)le emban-assment to him. And that is why I have the 
time locked in my head like that. Just flat flew off and left him. 

Mr. Weitz. I am still not clear; given that time frame, why you are 
sure the meeting with Mr. Kalmbach did not take place between the 
meeting with Mr. Connally and the time the three of you left Wash- 
ington, as opposed to before the meeting with INIr. Connally. 



6669 
Mr. Xelson. As I recall, we left the Secretary's office and went 



to- 



Mr. Weitz. You liad your bags with you ? 
Mr. Nelson. I believe we did. 
Mv. WErrz. I see. 

Mr. Nelson. I could be wrong about that. I am just telling you as 
I remember it. As I remember it, the meeting with Kalmbach was first. 
Mr. WErrz. In the morning sometime, midday, and then you met 
withMr.Connally? 

Mr. Nelson, Tliat is the Ayay I remember it. 
Mr. "Weitz. At the meeting- 
Mr. Nelson. It might have been reversed, but I do not think so. 
Mr. Weitz. At this brief meeting— well, I think Mr. Connally's logs 
indicate that you met with him in the afternoon, so it would just be a 
question of whether the meeting with Kalmbach was earlier or later 
in the afternoon. 

Mr. Nelson. What time does it say ? 

Mv. Weitz. 2 o'clock, I think. 

Mr. Nelson. There is no way we could have met with ISIr. Kalmbach 
and then gone to Dulles, I don't believe. 

Mr. Weitz. What took place at the meeting with Mr. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Nelson. He politely advised us that they did not wish at that 
time to receive contributions. You talk about a shock. 

]\rr. Weitz. On jiage H2 of your deposition in the Nader v. Butz 
case, you were asked about the same meeting, and your answer is as 
follows : 

"I remember that I was there at that meeting after that California 
meeting. ]My recollection is that he said," and I assume you are re- 
feiring to ]\Ir. Kahuhach — "they were not going to — that presently, 
they were not going to seek any additional contributions from TAPE, 
and just let the matter close as far as the meeting in California in the 
first place." 

Is that consistent with your recollection ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. I have a couple of questions about your answer. 

First of all, what did you mean hy "presently they were not going 
to seek any additional contributions"? Do you attach any significance 
to the word in the sentence? 

INIr. Nelson. That is my word. 

Mr. Wettz. I understand. 

iNIr. Nelson. I mean as of ]iow they were not going to. He was not 
giving us any iron-clad 

]Mr. Weitz. For the rest of the campaign ? 

Mr. Nelson. For the i-est of the campaign. 

Mr. Weitz. Was not in fact Mr. Kalmbach saying : 

"T am going to ]>hase out, and as far as I am concerned, I am not 
going to j)e meeting with you to ask for any more contributions"? 

Mr. Nelson. That is a reasonable construction. You could put that 
on. 

Mr. Wettz. And in fnrt, did you not understand or did you not be- 
lieve that there would be fnrtheT- solicitations and possible contribu- 
tions later in the campaign after April 7? 

Mr. Nelson. Did I? 



6670 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, I believed that. 

Mr. Weitz. And wlien you referred, in the same answer that I read, 
to "that just left the matter closed as far as the meeting in California 
in the first place." Besides the possible errors in syntax, were you not 
in effect saying that the meeting in California was arranged with Mr. 
Kalmbach and Dr. Mehren to see whether contributions should be 
made? 

The question arose as to pre-April 7 contributions. With a little bit 
after April 7, and Mr. Kalmbach at this time, March 16, 1972, was 
closing off contributions far before April 7? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes ; but not limited to April 7. 

Mr. Weitz. It could have gone beyond that ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Weitz. But you felt that there could be or might be contribu- 
tions later in the campaign ? 

Mr, Nelson. I felt that undoubtedly there would be. I have never 
seen a candidate for office yet who did not 

Mr. Weitz. If Mr. Kalmbach had said unequivocably : "We do not 
want any money from you people at all any more this year," or "We 
just do not want any of your money," that would have closed it off, 
would it not, at least as far as Mr. Kalmbach was concerned? 

Mr, Nelson, That is right. Mr, Kalmbach was not that blunt or di- 
rect, or gauche, if you want. I am just looking for words here. He was 
not that way at all, 

Mr, Weitz, Right. But did you understand him to be saying that 
under no circumstances would the Republican Presidential fundraisers 
seek more money from them, or was he merely saying. "We do not 
think it is advisable at this time to accept any more contributions"? 

Mr. Nelson. He did not put it either way. 

Mr, Wettz. I am talking about the intent of his Avords, as you under- 
stood them, as opposed to the actual words, 

Mr, Nelson, I tell you. you could read either way on it; and at the 
time it crossed my mind, is he trying to say "We do not want any more 
to do with you," or is he trying to say "We do not want to go forward 
with this now" ? And I just resolved it in my own mind as they do not 
want to do it presently. 

INIr. Wettz, So you do attach some significance to the word "pres- 
entlv" in your answer in the deposition ? 

Mr, Nelson, I want it understood that "presently" is not a quote 
from liim. It is mine, 

Mr. Weitz, I understand. But he did not state his intention in 
such a way so that you did not understand that there would be the 
possibility of additional solicitations or contributions at a later time? 

Mr. Nelson. No, he did not 

Mr. Wettz. Close it off? 

Mr, Nelson [continuing]. Close it off, but he did as far as then and 
there and now is concerned ; he closed it. 

Mr. Weitz, Insofar as IVfarch 16. 1972, on or around that time, 
was ronceiTied ? 

Mr. Nelson. [Nods affirmatively.] 

INIr. Weitz. You refei-i-ed to the meeting with Mv. Connally. Before 
I get to that, T would like to ask you quickly about two other areas. 



6671 

Were you aware in 1971 or 1972 of an lES investigation or audit of 
the tax returns of Milk Producers, Inc. ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes. 

!Mr. Weitz. What did you know about that ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, Mr. Ishani told me about it, that there was a 
question about a deduction that had been made for taking for pay- 
ment of — I cannot remember the name of the book written by Presi- 
dent Johnson. 

Mr. Sanders. "No Retreat From Tomorrow"? 

Mr. Xelsox. '"Xo Eetreat From Tomorrow." 

]Mr. AVeitz. And this was an investigation that was pending still 
in 1972 ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not recall the date. 

Mr. Weitz. I^t me ask you this. Do you remember when it first 
came to your attention ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo, I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. I have a letter here which I think for the time being, 
because of possible questions concerning IRS investigation and so 
forth, that I would rather not enter as an exhibit; but a letter from 
Bob Lilly to Jake Jacobsen dated August 26, 1971. which you are 
Avelcome "to look at. But it discusses the problem of the audit, and so 
forth. 

My question is : Does that refresh your recollection as to when you 
became aware of, or when the audit began ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo, but I will tell you ; ISIr. Isham, I am sure, told me 
about it as soon as the matter came to his attention. 

Mr. Weitz. My questions are these, first of all, when it was brought 
to your attenton. what action did you take ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not recall that I took any. 

Mr. Wfjtz. D'd vou ask anyone on your behalf to do something about 
it, to represent AMPI or to find out the facts, and so forth? 

Mr. Xelsox. I think that — I believe I asked Mr. Jacobsen to find 
out — to get the facts on this thing, because when we made that pay- 
ment, it was represented to us that it was properly — a properly tax- 
deductible deal : that the book was going to be put in libraries and cir- 
culated among various schools, and so forth; and that it was a tax- 
deductible iDublication. 

Mr. Weitz. xVt this point, I am not going to discuss with you the in- 
come tax eifects of that, but what I am interested in for the time being 
is whether you asked Mr. Jacobsen to contact anyone on your behalf. 

Mr. Xelsox. I asked Mr. Jacobsen to get a hold of — there was some 
question about the check that we paid the publisher, having been en- 
dorsed, ns I recall, to the national committee or some political arm. And 
I asked him to (ret in touch with the fellow who handled that sort of 
thing at the White House at that time. I cannot even think of his name. 

Mr. Weitz. Handled what sort of thing? I am not sure I understand 
you. 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, he was the chairman of the committee that the 
publisher's check went to. 

Mr. Weitz. This is in 1971 during the Nixon administration? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes, but this check was not written in 1971 during the 
Xixon administration. 



6672 

Mr. Weitz. I understand that ; it was written during the previous 
administration. 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Weitz. So the person at the White House 

Mr. Nelson. I am talking about the person at the White House at the 
time that check was issued, not to contact someone currently at the 
Wliite House at the time this was — contemporaneous at the White 
House 

Mr. Weitz. Did you subsequently meet with anyone in connection 
with this audit ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us who ? 

Mr. Nelson. An attorney named — I believe his name is Collie. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that Marvin Collie of the Vinson, Elkins firm ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is who it is. 

Mr. Weitz. Was he retained by you previous to that time for other 
matters ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, he was retained because Mr. Jacobsen recommended 
him as being a very competent attorney in such tax matters. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know how soon after the matter rose that you 
met with Mr. Collie ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. A matter of months or more? 

Mr. Nelson. It seems to me that it was a matter of months. 

Mr. Weitz. Several months ? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe it was. As a matter of fact — I am not sure, 
but I believe that I met with Mr. Collie; even after I was no longer 
general manager, I believe that Dr. Mehren asked me to meet with 
him. I am not sure. I could be wrong about that. 

Mr. Weitz. So it could be either 1971 or 1972 ? 

Mr. Nelson. Right. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. Jacobsen talked to anyone 
else about this besides the people who had been at the White House 
previously and besides Mr. Collie ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he speak to Mr. Connally about this ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Jacobsen. 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall whether he did or not. I do not remember. 

Mr. Weitz. How was the matter ultimately resolved ? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot tell you that. 

Mr. Wettz. Do you know whether anyone contacted either the dis- 
trict director or someone else in Washington ? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Collie contacted the district director. That is my 
understanding. He made a report back to us about it, and he contacted 
the district director, I believe. 

Mr. Weitz. Why was the Vinson, Elkins firm retained for this 
purpose ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, because Collie was a recognized expert in this 
field. Now, if you are driving — I will help you a little bit. Are you 
driving at the fact that Mr. Connally had been a member of that firm ? 

Mr. Weitz. Is there any significance to that ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not think so in this instance, because this man 
was a 



6673 

Mr. Weitz. Just a pure coincidence? 

Mr. Nelson. It would be only natural that Mr. Jacobsen, being 
close to Mr. Connally, would be close to lawyers that he was close to. 

Mr. Wkitz. At that time Mr. Connally was Secretary of the Treas- 
ury, was he not ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And the Secretary of the Treasury has responsibility 
for IRS ; overseeing IRS is part of his responsibility. 

Mr. Nei^on. That's right. 

Mr. Weitz. Would you have considered, it improper for anyone to 
approach him with respect to the IRS matter ? 

Mr. Nelsox. To approach the Secretary of the Treasury ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Nelson. I have never seen it improper to approach any Cabinet 
Minister about any problem confronting him as long as there is noth- 
ing secretive about it. As a matter of fact, I consider that to be in the 
best tradition of democracy; and I say God help us if it gets to the 
point where we cannot petition our Cabinet officers, committee chair- 
men, and Congressmen. I'm a firm believer in that. 

Mr. Weitz. In that connection, did Mr. Jacobsen discuss the matter 
with Mr. Connally ? 

Mr, Nelson. I don't know. I really do not know if he did. 

Mr. Weitz. He had discussed the price support question the previous 
year with him, and he approached a member of his former firm to rep- 
resent you. Would it have been 

Mr. Nelson. I do not consider this to be of the magnitude of those 
others. That's the reason I don't 

Mr. Weitz, At the same time in 1972, was there also pending an anti- 
trust suit by the Department of Justice against AMPI ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. That was filed shortly after I left as general 
manager. 

Mr. Weitz. Other than the fact that it was filed, had you any knowl- 
edge of the substance of the complaint or the negotiations then pend- 
ing with respect to the complaint ? 

Mr. Nelson. Do you mean after it was filed ? 

Mr. Weitz. Either before or after it was filed. 

Mr. Nelson. It was not. You see, I was given no notice that the suit 
was going to be filed. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you aware whether it was a serious attack on 
AMPI ? 

Mr. Nei^on. Well, once it was filed 

Mt. AVeitz. Yes, once it was filed. 

Mr. Nelson [continuing]. Once it was filed, I certainly was. Dr. 
Mehren called me in. I went over there, and he told me about what he 
considered to be a very summary and preemptory manner in which 
it had been handled; that they had been given 24 hours in which to 
accept or reject a decree that — a proposed decree that was very far- 
reaching in its scope and impact, instead of the usual — what is it? — 30 
to 60 da^-B that is ordinarily given. And he was quite exercised about 
the whole thing at the time it happened. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he tell von or were you aware of any contacts being 
made on behalf of AMPI with anyone in the Doi^artment of Justice in 
connection with trying to mitigate or negotiate out the complaint? 



6674 

Mr. Nelson. I understood that Mr. Heininger, a Chicago lawyer, 
was doing that. 

Mr. Weitz. What about Mr. Harrison ? Was he involved in any way ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall that he was. He may have been. As I re- 
call, it was Mr. Heininger. 

Mr. Weitz. What about ]\Ir. Russell, Mr. Stuart Russell? Was he 
involved in any way with respect to representing AMPI in the anti- 
trust suit at that time ? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot be sure. He probably was insofar as — I do not 
recall, but I assume that he would have been. And let me say why. I as- 
sume that Mr. Russell is a lawyer with expertise concerning milk mat- 
ters, and Mr. Heininger is an antitrust lawyer, but he had not had much 
experience with milk marketing matters and dairy cooperatives. So 
in order to appreciate the impact of the various provisions of this pro- 
posed decree, I am sure — and I recall vaguely that he was consulting 
Mr. Russell, but I believe the contacts with the Department of Justice 
were by Mr. Heininger. I may be wrong. 

Mr. Weitz. How about ex-officials with the Department of Justice 
such as John Mitchell — this is February 1972 — for example? 

Mr. Nelson, I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Chotiner acting on behalf of AMPI or in any 
way representing them in connection with the antitrust suit or any 
contacts with then present or past Government officials? 

Mr, Nelson. You see, I would not laiow about those things after 
I left. 

Mr. Weitz, How about Jake Jacobsen ? Did you laiow whether he 
was in any way involved in the antitrust suit? 

Mr. Nelson. I would not know. 

Mr, Weitz. In the meetings, that you had with INIr. Kalmbach that 
we have talked about, was there any reference, direct or indirect, to 
the antitrust suit or the IRS investigation ? 

Mr, Nelson, I do not recall any, 

Mr, Weitz, Was tliere any discussion outside of those meetings be- 
tween any of the AMPI, including yourself, such as Mr, Jacobsen 
or Dr. INIehren, concerning the antitrust suit or the IRS investigation 
and their possible relationship to political contributions ? 

Mr, Nelson, My recollection is, and I have been reading about this 
lately, is mainly what I know about this part of it — that was not ini- 
tially a reaction, that that was something that arose later, the sugges- 
tion about this was a vendetta, 

Mr, Weitz. How about the opposite ? How about an attempt to pla- 
cate the administration and eret the antitrust suit toned down as a 
result of more contributions ? Was that ever discussed ? 

Mr. Nelson, Not with me it was not. 

Mr. Weitz. Have you ever heard that suggestion, other than what 
you have read in the paper, or other than my questions ? 

Mr. Nelson, I have not even read in the papers about the attempt to 
placate them by giving them additional contributions, 

Mr, Weitz. Before the antitrust suits were being filed — and this 
would have been while you were still head of AMPI — let's say the 
end of 1071 up until January 12, 1972, were you aware of any contacts 
or any conversations which took place between anyone representing 
AMPI and any Republican fundraisers or anyone in the administra- 



6675 

tion, such as Mr. Colson, concerning the antitrust suit or a possible 
antitrust suit or grand jury investigation of AMPI ? 

Mr. Nelsox. The only thing I recall was that there had been an 
investigation of DI, I believe 

Mr. Weitz. Dairyman's Inc.? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. There liad been someone — I do not know who it 
was. I assume it was someone from the Department of Justice — had 
made some sort of investigation or inquiries with them ; and that is 
the only thing I remember. 

IMr. Weitz. Nothing with respect to AMPI ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Nobody had contacted me at all. 

Mr. Weitz. And conversely, of course, no one at AMPI or on behalf 
of AMPI had contacted anyone in the administration about an anti- 
trust problem ? 

^Ir. Nelsox'. No ; not that I recall. 

INIr. Weitz. And therefore, no one had discussed any possible re- 
lationship between an antitrust investigation on the one hand, and ad- 
ditional contributions on the other? 

Mr. Nelsox. Not that I recall. 

]Mr. Weitz. After the antitrust suit was filed were there any such 
conversations? 

Mr. Nelsox. No; not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. In the meeting with Mr. Connally — could you tell us 
how that came about ? 

;Mr. Nelsox. That came about, as I said just 30 minutes ago, Mr. 
Jacobsen suggested that if we wished w^e could go by and Dr. Mehren 
could meet Secretary Connally as the new manager of AMPI. 

Mr. Weitz. Before you left Texas to come to Washington did you 
knoAv you would be meeting with Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not recall. The possibility may have been raised, 
but I do not think that we had any firm appointment because we were 
not sure how long it would take. 

Mr. Weitz. But there was an idea that you would try to meet with 
Secretary Connally if he was free? 

Mr. Nelsox. I think that had been discussed, maybe with just Mr. 
Jacobsen and me, and maybe it had not. That just may be in my mind, 
but^ 

Mr. Weitz. Why did you come to Washington with Dr. Mehren? 

Mr. Nelsox. Well 

Mr. Weitz. First of all. did you come with Dr. Mehren ? 

]Mr. Nelsox. My recollection is that I came with Dr. Mehren. 

Mr. Weitz. And second, why ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Second, I don't really know. He asked me to come. 

Mr. Weitz. Did it have anything to do either with the possible 
meeting with Secretary Connally or the possible meeting with Mr. 
Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelsox. It had to do with the possible meeting with Mr. 
Kalmbach. 

Mr. Weitz. It did? 

]Mr. Nelsox. I assume. I am sure that that is the reason. And at that 
point there was some question as to what sort of circumstances were 
existing in view of the change in top management; and I feel that 
there was some desire to make an open show of unity. 



6676 

Mr. Weitz. Did you accompany him on some other meetings when 
you were in Washington at that time ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I had accompanied him on some. I don't know that we 
met with anybody else that day ; but I had accompanied him on an- 
other occasion. 

Mr. AVeitz. Who arranged the meeting with ISIr. Connally on the 
16th? 

Mr. Nelson. Mr. Jacobsen. 

Mr. Weitz. And what was the purpose of the meeting ? 

Mr. Nelson. So that Dr. Mehren could be introduced — to meet Sec- 
retary Connally. 

Mr. Weitz. Did it have anything to do with an effort or an interest 
in trying to present certain problems to the Secretary ? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall — and I have heard reports to the contrary, 
too — as I recall, there were no problems presented to the Secretary. 
It was a relatively short meeting, and he met him, and that was it. 

Mr. Weitz. What matters were discussed ? You first introduced him, 
I assume, as Dr. Mehren who was the new general manager of AMPI 
and so forth. Was there any substantive discussion of any sort? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't recall any substantive discussions. 

Mr. Weitz. There was no mention of price supports ? 

Mr. Nelson. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Or import quotas ? 

Mr. Nelson. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz, Or the antitrust suit ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, not that I recall. I recall no substantive discussions. 

Mr. Weitz. And if the three other gentlemen at the meeting recall, 
you would not dispute them ? 

Mr. Nelson. No; I would not dispute them. It's just a matter that I 
do not recall. To me it was a polite courtesy call sort of thing. 

Mr. Weitz. Was this the first time, to your knowledge, that Dr. 
Mehren had met IVIr. Connally ? 

Mr. Nelson. I think so. 

Mr. Weitz. And this was the fourth time that you had met Mr. 
Connally over a period of af)proximately 10 years ? 

Mr. Nelson. Longer than 10 years. 

Mr. Weitz. In your whole life? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. Of course, you understand, I knew his brother. 

Mr. Weitz. You had met him. You had not talked wnth him, I think 
you said, for about 5 or 6 or 7 years before the 1972 meeting, is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Nelson. Something like that. 

Mr. Weitz. And Mr. Jacobsen, therefore, had to introduce you to 
him again? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, no. He's too much of a — well, I don't want to put 
it that way. He is too accomplished. He w^ould never put Mr. Jacob- 
sen — he knew who was coming in there to see him ; his secretary told 
him; and I was not in the posture of having to be reintroduced. If he 
met you once and knew that he met you once 

Mr. Weitz. Did he actually indicate that he remembered you or did 
he try not to ? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, he indicated that he remembered me. 



6677 

Mr. Wettz. So once he has mot an indivridual, to your impression he 
never forgets them if it's any sif^nificance at all to him? 

Mr. Nelson. I^et's go off the record for a minute. 

Mr. Weitz. Off the record a minute. 
[Discussion oft' the record.] 

Mr. Weitz. Were the thi-ee of you with Dr. Mehren for the entire 
meeting? 

'Sir. Xelsox. 1 am not sure. T think I waited a while for Jake at the 
end of the meeting. It might have been at the beginning, but Jake 
stayed back and had a discussion, a short discussion, with him. I may 
be wrong about that. 

Mr. "Weitz. How long did the meeting that you attended last? 

How long were you present with INIr. Connally ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is hard to say. I Avould say 10 minutes, 15. 

Mr. Weitz. And how long did the discussion between only Mr. Ja- 
cobsen and Mr. Connally take place ? 

Air. Nelson. As I say. as I recall — and T am not sure about this — I 
believe he stayed back in there though as we left maybe 5 minutes. 

Air. "Weitz. Do you know what he discussed with Mr. Connally ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Air. Weitz. How did it take vou 10 or 15 minutes just to introduce 
Dr. Alehren? 

Air. Nelson. It didn't take 10 or 15 minutes to introduce Dr. Alehren. 

Air. Weitz. AVhat else was discussed ? 

Air. Nelson. I am just talking about 

Air. AVeitz. Pleasantries? 

Air. Nelson. That's right. 

Air. AVeitz. And there was no reference to the antitrust suit or prob- 
lems the dairy people were having or anything? 

Air. Nelson. Not that I recall. 

Air. AVeitz. AYas there any reference to political contributions ? 

All'. Nelson. No. 

Air. AVeitz. Have you ever discussed political contributions with Air. 
Connally ? 

Air. Nelson. I may have when he was running for Governor, but 
then I don't think I did at that point other than he said, you Imow. 
see what you can do to help me. The president of the North Texas 
Producers Association was actively interested in getting him elected. 

Air. AVeitz. Did Air. Jacobsen give any explanation as to why he 
stayed behind or what he talked about with the Secretary? 

Air. Nelson. No. You know, he would not be called upon to do that. 

Air. Weitz. A^ou do not meet Air. Connally very often; in fact, you 
had specifically asked Air. Jacobsen here before to talk to Secretary 
Connally on a very important matter. There was then pending a very 
serious antitrust suit against AAIPI. And I am just asking you 
whether, given that oppoi'tunity or the opportunity to discuss with 
the Secretary, as you quite properly point out a proper discussion of 
an IRS investicration of AAIPI, whether you took that opportunity to 
discuss any of those pending matters? 

Air. Nelson. No. A^ou see, I was not in the position 

Air. Wettz. D'd Dr. Alehren do so ? 

Air. Nelson. No. I do not think so. 

Air. AVeitz. He made no reference to it ? 



6678 

Mr. Nelson. I don't think he did. Not as I recalh I just do not think 
that — the meeting was not set up to do that. 

Mr. Weitz. When you were in Washington around the 16th of 
March 1972, did you meet with anyone else that you can recall with 
Dr. Mehren and Mr. Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Nelson. Do you mean at this meeting with the Secretary? 

Mr. W^EiTz. No, other than tlie meeting with the Secretary and other 
than the meeting with Mr. Kalmbach, did you meet with anyone else? 

Mr. Nelson. Those are the only two I recall. 

Mr. W^EiTz. Did you meet with Mr. JNIitchell ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. I have never met with jNlr. INIitchell at any time. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you aware whether Dr. Mehren or Mr. Jacobsen 
talked with or met Mr. Mitchell ? 

Mr. Nelson. Not that I am aware of. 

Mr. W^EiTz. Are you aware or do you know whether Mr. Connally 
contacted Mr. Mitchell on your behalf or with relation to dairy mat- 
ters on or around the 16th of March ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know. 

Mr. W^EiTz. Did you meet with any Republican National Committee 
or Democratic National Committee representatives in Washington 
during that time — Robert Strauss, for example, or Senator Dole? 

Mr. Nelson. W^e did not meet with Senator Dole. One time — I do not 
believe it Avas the same date though — we did meet Robert Strauss, as I 
recall, Dr. Mehren and Jake and I. I could be wrong about that. 

Mr. Weitz. I am not saying that particular day, but during that 
trip to Washington. 

Mr. Nelson. You see, I do not remember whether it was a 1-day or 
2-day trip; but I do seem to recall that we did meet with Robert 
Strauss for just a few minutes. 

Mr. Weitz, What was the purpose of that meeting ? 

Mr. Nelson. For Dr. Mehren to meet Robert Strauss. 

Mr. Weitz. Were there any specific conti'ibutions or solicitations dis- 
cussed at that meeting ? 

Mr. Nelson. As I recall, Strauss^you know, Strauss is a very force- 
ful and aggressive guy. As I recall, he threw out something about some 
program that they were developing that might be a good idea for 
AMPI to consider. And I do not even recall what it was. 

Mr. Weitz. Did it relate to funding of Democratic and Republican 
Convention booklets? 

Mr. Nelson. That's what it was. 

Mr. Weitz. Was the suggestion made that AMPI or TAPE should 
contribute $100,000 to each party's convention ? 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot recall the amount, but there was some sug- 
gestion. 

Mr. W^eitz. There would be equal amounts to both parties ? 

Mr. Nelson. Something like that. 

Mr. Weitz. And it related to convention booklets ? 

Mr. Nelson. The convention booklet part is the part I remember. I 
do not remember the amounts. 

Mr. Weitz. Did this meeting take place close to the time of the 16th, 
if not on that day ? 

Mr. Nelson. I think that is the onlv time I came back up here with 
Dr. Mehren, so it is likely that it was then. Yes. 



6679 

Mr. Weitz. What was Dr. Mehren's response or how was that sug- 
gestion — what was his response ? 

^h: Nelson. It was made by Strauss, and as I recall, the response 
by Mehren was more or less bantering. They were bantering back and 
forth about it. 

Mr. Weitz. He neither said yes or no to that request ? 

Mr. Nelsox. That is right. 

Mr. Weitz. Do 30U know whether ultimately — did he go back and 
recommend that to the TAPE Committee ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know. 

;Mr. Weitz. You know nothing else about that other than that 
meeting? 

Mr. Nelson. [Nods negatively.] 

;Mr. Weitz. When you were in AVashington at that time ; did you also 
meet with Secretary of Agriculture Butz ? 

Mr. Nelson. Dr. Mehren and I met with him. And that is what I say. 
I do not remember whether it was a part of that trip or another trip 
that Dr. Mehren and I did meet "with Secretary Butz. 

Mr. Weitz. You discussed, presumably, dairy problems at that 
meeting ? 

Mr. Nelson. It was a very short meeting, and I'm not sure that we 
actually discussed any specific problem. It was more like a deal of, you 
laiow, there has been a change here, and we are still together. You know, 
it was just a very — I viewed it kind of like I did the Connally meeting. 
It was a courtesy call sort of thing. 

We may have discussed something of substance, but if we did, I 
sure don't remember it. 

Mr. Weitz. Your recollection is you can only recall one instance 
when you came to Washington with Dr. Mehren to go around to meet 
various officials and so forth ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. There may have been another. I'm not saying that 
I did not come with him. 

Mr. Weitz. But you can recall only one ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, subsequent to the change in management. 

Mr. Weitz. And that would include the time when you met with 
both Mr. Connally and Mr. Kalmbach separately on March 16, 1972? 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. And it might have been a 2-day trip. I do 
not remember. 

Mr. Weitz. And if the Madison Hotel records indicate that you were 
here for 2 days, it probably was a 2-day trip, and you probably did 
spend those days meeting with the officials you have mentioned ? 

Mr. Nelson. Right. 

Mr. Weitz. OK. I would like to ask you did there come a time within 
several weeks or within the next month following this March 16 series 
of meetings in 1972 when there was a suggestion made that 3^ou were 
aware of, that TAPE contributed to a number of committees, Republi- 
can National Committees or Presidential committees, just prior to 
April 7 ? 

Mr, Nelson. I have heard about that. I had no knowledge, you know. 

Mr. Weitz. What have you heard about that ? 

Mr. Nelson. I have heard that the suggestion was made, the decision 
was made to do it, and then something happened and they didn't do it, 

Mr. Weitz. Do you knoAv who made the suggestion ? 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 20 



6680 

Mr. Nelsox. No. It seems to me — I don't know who. 
Mr. Weitz. Was your understanding that these contributions would 
be made to committees for the President's reelection ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not know that much about it. 

Mr. Weitz. Would they be contributions to Republicans as opposed 
to Democrats ? 

Mr. Nelson. It was my understanding that they were contribution' 
to Republicans. 

Mr. Weitz. Would they have anything to do with — would they be 
similar to committees or possible committees that you had been seek- 
ing from Mr. Kalmbach, for example, in the past 2 years? I mean, 
would tliey come from the same sources '. 

Mr. Nelson. This is really conjecture on my part. I am telling yor 
I really do not know about this. 

Mr. Weitz. I am trying to probe as to your knowledge, not really 
your conjecture. 

Mr. Nelson. I do not have any knowledge. 

Mr. Weitz. How did you come to whatever knowledge you had of 
that incident ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I was told that a question had been raised about 
it and that Lynn Elrod had signed tlie checks and didn't remember 
signing them. 

Mr. Weiiz. Who told you that ? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe Bob Lilly told me that. 

Mr. Weitz. Have you talked to Bob Lilly about this in the last 
several months ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he tell you an_>i:hing else about that incident or ask 
you anything in connection with that ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, he was not asking me. He just told me about it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ask him ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, because I didn't know anything about it. 

Mr. AVeitz. How did you come to talk about it at all I 

Mr. Nelson. I cannot tell you. It just came up in the discussion. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he indicate that you were somehow involved in it ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you involved in that transaction? 

Mr. Nelson. I recall nothing about that transaction. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know how much money was involved ? 

Mr. Nelson. It seems to me there were 39 checks. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know how much each check was foi- ? 

Mr, Nelson. I just assumed $2,500. 

Mr. Weitz. So that would be about $100,000. 

Mr. Nelson. Right, if the $2,500 amount is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember discussing the possibility of addi- 
tional contributions just prior to April 7 with Dr. ^Nlehren? 

Mr. Nelson. No; I do not. I am not saying that I did not. I just am 
saving I do not recall it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you not meet with Dr. Mohren just prior to April 
7 in San Antonio to discuss an additional $150,000 in contributions 
or thereabouts to committees provided bv — well, on behalf of the 
President's reelection or the Republican National Committee? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not remember it. 



6681 

Mr. Weitz. If you did so you would i)resumably remember it? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes ; but I could have done it and not remember it too. 

Mr. Weitz. Even amounts of $100,000 or more of political con- 
tributions? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. 

]\Ir. Weitz. You have recounted a number of matters to us with a 
fair degree of specificity. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. "\^'EITz. You recounted your meetings with Mr. Connally over a 
l^eriod of more than 10 3'ears with a degree of specificity, and your 
meetings with Mr. Kalmbacli and Mr. Colson and so forth. 

Can you explain to us how you are not sure one way or another 
whether you participated in or had contemporaneous knowledge of 
an intended transaction of $100,000 or more just prior to April 7, 1972? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not really believe that I did, see. 

Mr. Weitz. Your best recollection is that you did not? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. AA^eitz. But you are not saying that you did not ? 

You are just saying you do not recall ? 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. 

]Mr. Weitz. I take that to mean you may have, but you do not 
recall ? 

Mr. Nelson. It is possible they did call me over there on — you see, 
I was just available wlien they called me, and they called me over 
there on a few occasions. But I do not recall being called over there 
about any contributions. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall discussing the possibility with Mr. Jacob- 
sen just prior to April 7 ? 

When I say just prior, a week or 2 weeks prior. 

Mr. Nelson. The discussions we had with Kalmbach, you know 

]Mr. Weitz. In Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Nelson. In Los Angeles and in Washington, where he advised 
us that he did not want any more. 

Mr. Weitz. But he did not mention April 7 at that point ? 

Mr. Nelson. No; it was not limited to April 7 at that point, and 
I do not recall any discussion with Dr. Meliren subsequent to that 

Mr. Weitz. IVIeeting in Washington ? 

Mr. Nelson. Meeting in Washington concerning political contri- 
butions. 

Mr. Weitz. Not with Mr. Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Nelson. [Nods in the neijative.] 

INIr. Weitz. Nor with Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Nor with Secretary Connally ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. I just do not believe 

Mr. Weitz. How frequently did you talk to Mr. Jacobsen in those 
days — let's say April of 1972 ? 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, that is very difficult for me to say, you Iniow. 

Mr. Weitz. Weekly, monthly? He wasn't representing you in any 
legal matters ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well. hi= partner Avas. 

INIr. Weitz. Joe Lone ? 



6682 

Mr. Nelson. Joe Long was representing me in legal matters in con- 
ection Avitli exporting cattle to Peru. So I do not knoAv how often. 
That is the reason I say it is diflicult for me to tell you how often. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you have any records of those meetings ? Were they 
meetings or conversations ? 

Mr. Nelson. I never kept records of any meetings and conversa- 
tions. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, in the record of telephone calls that we described 
at the outset of this executive session, I would like to make this one 
page [indicating] part of the record as exhibit 16. 

[Whereupon, the document referred to was marked Nelson exhibit 
No. 16 for identification.*] 

Mr. Weitz. These would be your telephone charge records for that 
period which we described at the outset ? 

Mr. Nelson. Right. Yes, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. It appears on tlie appropriate page showing charges 
for April 4. 1972, and on that date there are only three charges. They 
are all to Austin. They do not indicate where they are from. They are 
presumably from San Antonio, cliarged to your home number or even 
from your home number. 

Mr. Nelson. That's right. 

Mr. Weitz. Is 344-8557 your home number? Was it at that time, 
April 1972 ? 

Mr. Nelson. Right. 

Mr. Weitz. So, on that day, you made three long-distance calls, all 
to Austin. Two of the phone calls were to 472-1131. 

Mr. Nelson. That is Mr. Long and Jacobsen's number. 

Mr. Weitz. One to 471-1131. ^ 

Mr. Nelson. I think that is an error. 

Mr. Weitz. So there are probably two intended or completed phone 
calls that you attempted to make, both to the phone number of the 
Jacobsen and Long law firm ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Does that refresh your recollection as to any particular 
conversation you had on or around April the 4th with ISIr. Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Nelson, No. Let me explain to you. There are a lot of phone 
calls, and there will continue to be. Most of those pertain to those cattle 
transactions, because they were all financed through lottere of credit 
at the Bank of America in Houston, and then through the Citizens 
Bank in Austin, and Mr. Long was familiar with those. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me ask you this. You have said that you do not think 
you did, but you are not certain, so, therefore, you cannot recall 
whether you had anything to do with the possible transaction involving 
an intended but uncompleted contribution just prior to April 7. 

Is that correct? 

Mr. Nelson. That is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, if others remember your participation, would you 
dispute their recollection ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, it would all depend on who the others are. 

Mr. Weitz. If Mr. Lilly recalled your participation ? 

Mr. Nelson. I would be glad to accept his recollection. 

♦See p. 6754. 



6683 

Mr. "\Yeitz. And if he recalled that you called Mr. Jacobsen in con- 
nection with that transaction on April 4 several times, would you dis- 
pute that ? 

Mr. Xelsox. No, no. 

Mr. Weitz. So therefore, these two completed calls on April 4, 1972, 
from your number to Austin mi<i;ht very well refer to the transaction 
that we are talkino; about ? 

Mr. Xelson. Sure. 

If you can describe the transaction further to me I might recall it. 
But I surely do not recall it now. 

Mr. Weitz. But he did not and you did not afk him in this con- 
versation you had with him in the last several months about that? 

Mr. Xelsox. About my participation ? 

Mr. Weitz. That's right. Nothing more than you related to us ? 

Mr. Nei.sox. That is right. 

Oh, I don't know. He may have even said to me something about 

Mr. Weitz. Xow we are'just talking about the last several months, 
figlit ? 

So presumably you would recall if he told you anything further, so 
he didn't do that ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xot that I recall. 

;Mr. Gale^ax. I again want to state that for some i^teriod of time now, 
^Ir. Xelson has not been able to converse with Mr. Lillv because of the 
prosecutor's instructions, or extractions of promises from Mr. Lilly. 

Mr. Weitz. OK. 

Mr. X^elson. are you aware of any further solicitations from April 4, 
1972, until the time of the election by any Rejniblican fundraisers, in- 
cluding My. Kalmbach or others of TAPE or the committee for 
TAPE? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo ; because I was not in a position where they would 
call me. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know Lee Xunn ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo; I was not in a position to Imow him. But I was 
told by Dr. ISIehren that he had contacted him. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he say when ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not recall. 

^Ir. Weitz. Sometime before the election ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And sometime after your meetings with Mr. Kalmbach ? 

iNIr. X^ELsox. As I recall, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Who contacted whom with respect to Lee Xunn and 
Dr. ]\Iehren ? 

Mv. Xelsox. It was my understanding that Lee X^unn contacted Dr. 
Mehren. 

Mr. Weitz. To solicit contributions for the President; is that correct? 

Mr. X'elsox. For the President's campaign. 

Mr. Weitz. For the Presidential campaign of 1972 ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And Lee Xunn was a Eepublican fundraiser ? 

]Mr. X'elsox'. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know where the meeting took place if there was a 
meeting? 

Mr. Xelsox. I believe Dr. Mehren said he came to San Antonio. 



6684 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know what took place at that meeting ? 

Mr. NELSOiV. I understood tliat Dr. Mehren agreed to make some con- 
tributions. I do not remember wlietlier lie agreed or disagreed. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Dr. ISIehren talk to you before and after the meeting, 
or just after the meeting ? 

Mr. Nelson. It was after the meeting, and I do not recall how long 
it was after the meeting. He told me that Lee Nunn had been to San 
Antonio, as I recall. 

Mr. AVeitz. Do you recall whether he 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall the details. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Dr. INIehren agree to make contributions ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is what I say. I do not recall whether he did or 
did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you have any knowledge as to any contributions to 
the Presidential campaign of 1972 ? 

Let's take the Republicans first because we've been talking about 
that. In connection with solicitations first by Mr. Kalmbach and per- 
haps later Mr. Nunn. 

Do you have any knowledge of any contributions in 1972, to the 
Republican Presidential candidate by TAPE or the Committee for 
TAPE ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether they made any such contributions ? 

Mr. Nelson. I am under the understanding that they did make some. 
I cannot tell you the amount, nor when they were made. 

Mr. Weitz. For President Nixon's reelection? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. AVeitz. In 1972 ? 

Mr. Nelson. In 1972. 

Mr. Weitz. How- did you gain such knowledge ? 

Mr. Nelson. It is hard to say. I might have read it in the paper, or 
some person over there told me. I cannot tell you. 

But I was under the impression that they did make some 
contributions. 

Mr. Weitz. What about the other two dairy trusts, SPACE and 
ADEPT? 

Mr. Nelson. I am not sure. 

Mr. Weitz. Are you familiar, or are you aware of any contacts after 
April of 1972, between Mr. Kalmbach and either Dr. Mehren or any- 
one else on behalf of the three dairy trusts ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr, Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. Kalmbach met with Mr. 
Jacobsen at any time thereafter ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do'not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he meet with you ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he meet with Gary Hanman ? 

Mr. Nelson. I w^ould not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Wliat about Ben Morgan of Dairymen ? 

Mr. Nelson. I have not talked to either one of them about that. 

Mr. Weitz. What about Mr. Connally? Did you have any further 
conversation in 1972 with him after the meeting on March 16? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. 



6685 

Mr. Weitz. ^Vhat about Dr. Mehren ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not know. He did not — Dr. Mehren did not report 

to me that he had. 

Mr. Weitz. "\Miat about Mr. Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, Mr. Jacobsen worked with the Democrats for 
Nixon, so I assume that he intended to have frequent conversations. 

Mr. Weitz. Wliat about people from the otlier two cooperatives, 
either Mr. Hanman or Mr. Morgan with Mr. Connally i 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. In that comiection I just want to go back and ask a couple 
of questions I neglected to before. We were talking, if you recall, about 
the meetings on March 24, 1971, in connection with the milk price- 
support decision of that year. And you said you met with Mr. Alagia 
in the Louisville airport early in the morning of the 2'4th. 

Do you recall whether you told him at that time of your meeting 
on the following evening with Mr. Kalmbach and Mr. Chotiner? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo ; I do not. You see, I do not recall if I knew^ at that 
time that I as going to meet 

Mr. Weitz. If you had known at that time, at the time you met with 
Mr. Alagia, if you had known of your meeting with Mr. Kalmbach 
and Mr. Chotiner, given jour practice with individuals and so forth, 
is it likely you would have told Mr. Alagia of the sj)ecifics of that 
meeting ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I probably would have told Mr. Alagia if I had known 
of it at that time. 

Mr. Weitz. In connection with the contributions that were made in 
1971 by TAPE to the multiple committees provided by Mr. Harrison, 
are you aware whether those committees received any further con- 
tributions from any other sources other than the three dairy trusts? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo, sir. I am not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever discuss the matter with anyone as to 
whether those committees would or would not receive contributions 
from other sources, from anj' other contiibutors. 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not remember any discussion about that. 

Mr. Weitz. If the records of those committees indicate that they 
received no other contributions except the $2,500 apiece that each com- 
mittee received from one of the three dairy trusts or their political 
arms, do you have any explanation for that — ^any significance or any 
reason why they would have received contributions just from the dairy 
trusts? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo; other than that they were created for that purpose 
only. 

Mr. Weitz. That is my question. Why were they created for that 
purpose only ? 

Mr. Xelsox'. I do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me ask you this. You have personal knowledge and 
experience of the difficulty, the apparent difficulty or at least delay in 
time between your requests that the committees be furnished to you 
and the furnishing of such connnittees, and in fact even afterwards, the 
difficulty in providing committees that complied in every respect with 
the then-existing requirements. At least there was some great difficulty 
in i^roviding 100 committees to you. 

Xow, given that difficulty and given the fact that each of those com- 
mittees could receive up to $5,000 from any one contributor in any one 



6686 

year, and thereforo could be used to l•ecei^-e contributions from an un- 
limited number of contributors, do you have any explanation as to 
why they were not used for other contributors? 

Mr. Nelsox. No; the only thing that comes to my mind just as you 
ask me the question is, perhaps there was a paucity of political trusts 
to make contributions. 

Mr. Wettz. Are you saying there was a paucity of contributors or 
political trusts? 

Mr, Nelsox. I am saying political trusts. 

Mr. Weitz. But if you or I, aside from TAPE, wanted to make 
a contribution of, say $10,000, the then-existing tax and other require- 
ments limited it to $5,000 for political purposes and $3,000 in terms 
of gift tax purposes, it would then require at least two and perhaps 
as man}' as three or four committees, is that correct? 

Mr. Nelsox. That is right. 

]Mr. Weitz. So that any contributor contributing over $3,000 or $5,- 
000 would require, if he wanted to minimize his tax exposure and so 
forth, more than one committee, and someone who was contributing 
$100,000 might require as many as 30 or 40 committees? 

Mr. Nelsox. That is right. 

Mr. Weitz. Given that fact, and given the fact that there were large 
contributors to the Republican campaign in 1972, as well as the Demo- 
cratic campaign, do you have any understanding or reason as to why 
those committees were used only to receive dairy money? 

Mr. Nelsox. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, the trusts that you indicated early yesterday re- 
ported to the Clerk of the House — is that correct — before April 7, 
1973? 

Mr. Nelsox. That is right. 

Mr. Weitz. And that was on the advice of counsel ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Weitz. Are you familiar wath whether individuals, if they make 
contributions, have to report their contributions to the Clerk of the 
House ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No ; I am not. 

Mr. Weitz. Have you ever made a personal contribution prior to 
April 7, 1972? 

Mr. Nelsox. The only personal contribution that T recall 

Mr. Weitz. Federal contribution. 

Mr. Nelsox. Well, Federal or otherwise — is like to the President's 
club. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you report that ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you have any understanding that you were required 
to report that ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No. 

Mr. Weitz, And assuming that that assumption is correct, and 
assuming that individuals were not required ])rior to April 7, 1972, 
to report their individual contributions, does that indicate to you, or 
do you have, based upon that, any opinion or understanding as to why 
committees that were receiving money from tlie dairy trusts that were 
reporting were used only for that purpose, and not used to receive 
moneys from individual contributors or any other contributor? 



6687 

Mr. Nelsox. You can carry it a lof^ical step further and say that it 
was not necessary for indi\idual contributors to use committees. I do 
not kno^y. 

Mr. "Weitz. The short of it is, thoucrh, that you had never discussed, 
or you recall no discussions or any connnunications concerning the need 
or existence of separate committees only to receive dairy money for 
some specific purpose? 

]\rr. Xelsox. Xo ; I did not understand tliat they would receive dairy 
funds only. It does not surprise me, but that was never 

Mr. Weitz. All right. 

Let's go oil' the record for 1 minute. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Weitz. Back on the record. 

]Nfr, Sr>i:^rERS. Mr. Xelson, with respect to the civil antitrust suit 
against AMPI, did you ever have any discussions yourself with Mr. 
Kleindienst? 

Mr. X'elsox. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Summers. ^Ir. McLaren ? 

Mr. X^elsox. X'o, sir. 

Mr. Su^iMEPuS. Did you at one point discuss the antitrust suit with 
Mr. Connally? 

]\Ir. X^'elsox'. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Summers. During your meeting with Mr. Connally. I believe it 
was March 16, 1972 — did you at that meeting discuss the antitrust 
suit ? 

Mr. X"ei,sox'. We have been over that. 

Mr. Weitz. To follow up on those questions, did anyone on your 
behalf or that you know of, or on behalf of A]MPI, discuss the anti- 
trust suit with either Mr. Kleindienst or Mr. McLaren ? 

Mr. X^'ei.sox. I have read someplace where I believe it was Mr. Har- 
rison who said that Mr. Chotiner had run into Mr. Mitchell at some 
party, and it seems to me that there was some report about that and 
that there had been discussion. That is the only thing I know about 
that. 

I do not know Mr. McLaren. I have never met him. I am not sure 
that I know Mr. Kleindienst. I think that Mr. Kleindienst did at one 
point, years ago, represent a dairymen's co-op at Tempe, Ariz., and 
that I did meet him at that time when I went out there to help them in 
a Federal milk order meeting. But I am not even sure that it was 
Kleindienst that I met. So I have never talked to them. 

Mr. SuAiMERS. Other than the discussion of that meeting with Mr. 
Mitchell that was in the newspaper, did you have any independent 
knowledge of that ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo, sir. I have not. 

ISIr. Weitz. Have yon since that time received any knowledge? 

Mr. X'elsox. I talked to Marion Harrison about it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he confirm the meeting? 

Mr. X'elsox. Pie was more or less exercised that the reporter had not 
cone fhead and used the whole information and the context in whicli 
he had sent the letter. He felt, and he said thnt he had called the fel- 
low anrl had a discu'^sion with him about it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he tell you anything else about any contacts being 



6688 

made at that time between representatives of AMPI and then, present 
or past officials in the administration ^ 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not recall tluit he did. 

Mr. Weitz. How about Mr. Chotiner? Did you ever discuss it with 
him? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Weitz. I asked you, and you did not know of any involvement 
by Mr. Jacobsen. 

Did you ever discuss with Mr. Jacol:)sen the possibility that addi- 
tional contributions in 197:2 might have a beneficial eU'ect'with respect 
to the antitrust suit ^ 

Mr. Nelsox. No, the antitrust suit was filed after I left. 

Mr. Weitz. But you were still attending meetings with Mr. Kalm- 
bach after you were replaced ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes, just three times. 

Mr. Weitz. That related to contributions ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Just three times. That was about it. 

Mr. Weitz. I understand. 

In connection with those meetings or outside of those meetings, did 
you talk about what impact additional contributions would have, or 
did you overhear any such discussions on pending matters such as the 
antitrust suit ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I do not recall tliat at all, because substantial contribu- 
tions had been made when the antitrust suit was filed. I do not think it 
had any relationship to it. Now, I know this is contrary to what the pre- 
sent management stated they feel about this. I personally do not 
feel that the antitrust suit is related in any way to political contribu- 
tions and I do not want to be misunderstood in what I say. 1 also do 
not think that it is a well-founded suit. I do not agree with it. That's 
what makes lawsuits, you understand, but I do not think that it is 
politically motivated. 

Mr. Weitz. I will put it the other way around. Were any of the in- 
tended contributions or the contacts of 197'2 with resi^ect to contribu- 
tions made with any intention to eifect the antitrust suit ? 

Mr. Nelsox^. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Weitz. And that was never discussed ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Not as far as I recall, no, sir. I think that would be 
utterly ridiculous. 

Mr. Weitz. Wait a second. AVe just talked about the previous year 
with respect to price supports. I believe you said 

Mr. Nelsox. That is an entirely different matter. One is a political 
decision and the other is a legal and judicial decision. 

Mr. Weitz. It is supposed to he a legal decision. 

What I am asking you is, was thei-e any discussion with respect to 
getting a more favorable approach from the administration as a result 
of additional contributions ? 

Mr. NF,LSox^ No, not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. But you felt price supports was a political matter, so 
that you — that it would not be ino])portune to make contributions, and 
therefore seek greater favor or at least appear in a more favorable light 
with certain administration officials? 

Mr. Nei-sox. In order to be heard. 

Mr. Weitz. Right. AVith this administration, as I think you testi- 
fied yesterday ? 



6689 

Mr. Nelson. Within any — well, yes, with this administration. That's 
the only administration we had. 

^Ir. Weitz. As I recall — well, I won't go through yesterday's testi- 
mony. I think the recoi'd will speak for itself. 

Mr. Summers. Alan, let mc ask one more question. 

With respect to the investigation by the Justice Department of 
AMPI that preceded the filing of a lawsuit, were there any discussions 
between you or anyone else at AMPI and Justice Department officials 
which indicated that the suit might be a criminal antitrust suit rather 
than a civil one ? 

Mr. Nelsox. No, sir. 

]Mr. Sum:mers. Was there ever any discussion with your attorneys as 
to whether there would be a civil or a criminal suit ? 

Mr. Xelsox. That suit was filed very shortly after I left. The suit 
was never discussed, or the fact that it was about to be filed was never 
discussed with me, or insofar as I know, with any of the attorneys rep- 
resenting AJNIPI during that period. 

Mr. Summers. Thank vou. 

That is all. 

Mr. Weitz. ]Mr. Sanders I 

Mr. Sanders. I am going to have to go back over, touch upon a few 
matters here and there that we have covered in the last— yesterday and 
today, and I thought, rather than interrupt Alan every time I had 
something to ask, I would just save them up to the end. 

With regard to the $100,000 contribution to Kalmbach in 1969, and 
the source of that money by Lilly, can you enlighten me on the decision- 
making process to use TAPE funds for that, or to borrow from TAPE 
in order to make that payment ? 

Who ultimatel V made the decision in that respect ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well ultimately, any decision made would have to be 
mine. The buck stops here. 

]Mr. Sanders. You did have a personal involvement in it, and you did 
pereonally make the decision? 

Mr. Xelson. I was personally involved in it, and — I do not recall. 
I recall telling Mr. Isham we needed the $100,000, and that was the way 
it was decided. And I cannot tell you the thought processes or the input 
by whom and what. Put that is the way it was done. 

Mr. Sanders. Now, bearing in mind tliat this was in 1969, bearing 
in mind that the*tiext election that the Pi-esident might encounter 
would be 3 years hence, and that circumstances might evolve where- 
bv he might not even run, and bearing in mind that he had just been 
tlirouMi the expense of a campaign, can you say that this $100,000 
contribution to Kalmbach was given with any thought toward the 
expenses of the 1972 campaign ? 

]Mr. Nelson. No. Either way, there was not any thought of saying it 
would be foi- 1972. or pay debts for 1968, or that sort of thing. We're 
not even sure vrhether it was a conti-ibution or whether it was for legal 
fees. 

Mr. Sanders. So it miflrht just as well hnve been for use in cleaning 
ui) exi:)enses of the 1968 campaign as it might be for the 1972 



campairrn 



Mr. Nelson. That is correct. 



6690 

Mr. Saxders. Or as well, to be used for the Republican 1970 congres- 
sional races, if they saw fit to use it for that ? 

Mr. Xei.sox. Yes, sir. 

]Mr. Saxdkrs. So there was no representation to you from Kalmbach 
or anyone else connected with the administration that this money was 
to be used for any one of these purposes as opposed to another? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. S AXDERS. As a matter of fact, in one of the exhibits shown to you 
by ]Mr. Weitz — I have forgotten which one now — there was some indi- 
cation tliat the money was for the 1970 races. Do you recall seeing that ? 

Mr. Nelsox. Yes. T^o you mean in connection with some of those 
committees ? 

Mr. Sanders. Yes, sir. 

I am sorry. That reference was not with regard to the Kalmbach 
money, but with regard to the 1970 committee contributions. 

Mr, Neeson. I recall discussions concerning the possibilities that 
some of the money would be used for that. 

Mr. Sanders. You do recall discussions with whom? 

Mr. Neeson. T believe with Mr. Colson. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know which exhibit, what the exhibit refers 
to? 

Mr. Sanders. I might be able to identify it from the marginal 
note I have here. 

Mr. Gallmax. It is Tilly exhibit Xo. 2. I think. It is that list of 
payments showing $80,000 for 1970. 

^Ir. Saxders. Xo. it is a rather late exhibit, one within the last hour 
or two, probably a Harrison writing. It may be [pause]. Xo, I am 
sorry. T cannot pin it down for you. 

I want to explore, just a little bit, your remarks about the need to 
open doors with the Xixon administration. 

As of 1969, can you state with any more particularity what favors, 
if any. were desired by AMPI ? 

]Mr. Nelsox. It was not favors. I do not think it was favore. "We did 
not seek favors for AMPI. and we did not receive favors for A^NIPL 

We sought action which you could call favorable action on mattere 
such as imports, price supports and so forth. But those were all for 
the industry as a whole, not for the organization AMPI or the other 
two dairy organizations that have been mentioned in previous testi- 
mony. 

"\Ve knew that we were goinof to have price-support problems. You 
always have price-support problems coming up. You will always have 
this constant specter of these imports, and this is not a partisan thing. 
This is not something that is true of a Republican administration or 
the Xixon administration, as opposed to a Democratic administration. 
This is something that you need to be able to get over there and dis- 
cuss, because the Council of Economic advisers, I say, whether in a 
Republican administration or Democratic administration, you cannot 
tell them apart, other than that there are some other different person- 
alities. They are all monetary economists Avho think like monetary 
economists and do not think in the terms of the agricultural economists, 
and therefore, Avhen you start presenting your position, if you are 
not there so that you can be heard at the highest level, you are shot 



6691 

out of the saddle by virtue of the fact that 3^011 cannot refute what 
the}' have said. 

So, that is what makes it incumbent upon you to have the ultimate 
ability, when it <rets down to it, to ^et in there and be heard. 

INIr! Saxdeks. As of the time of the 1969 delivery to Kalmbach, had 
you found any doors closed in tryin*!; to ffain access ''i 

Mr. Xei^ox. Let's put it the other way. We had not found any open. 
You see, we were in this position. 

Mr. Sanders. You had not vet had the need ? 

Mr. Xelsox. "We had had the need, but we had not been able to get 
in tliere. simply because we were all Democrats. All — well, I say all 
of us in key positions and so forth in there. We just had no one 
we knew. 

]Mr. Saxders. All right. If you say you could not find any doors 
open, vou are also saving thev are closed. 

Mr.'XELSox.Well 

Mr. Saxders. You don't have to accept my language either. 

Mr. Xelsox. I am just saying that we had not found a way to open 
the doors. Obviously, if you want to open a door, it follows that it's 
closed. 

]Mr. Saxders. ^"S'liat I am getting at is, can you cite to me any ex- 
auiples of where you encountered doors not open to you in 1969 as of 
the time of the delivery of money to Kalmbach? 

Mr. Xelsox. We hadn't found them open, is the way I put it. 

Mr. Saxders. Can you cite any examples ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, we had just been unable to get there. We had not 
had a meeting with the President. 

Mr. Saxders. Had vou been trying? 

Mr. Xelsox. We had asked, but we had not succeeded. 

]\f r. Sax'ders. Who had you been talking with ? 

yiv. Xelsox. We had been tallcing mainly to the people we had been 
talking to before, who were unable to do it. You see, they admitted 
tliey were finable to do it. 

Mr. Saxders. Had you actually gone so far as to talk to any mem- 
ber of the staff in the White House ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo; we didn't know any of them to talk to. You see, 
we didn't know any of them. 

We had talked to some of our Republican friends, who said that they 
did not have the abilitv to get in over there either. 

Mr. Saxders. AAHien billings came in to AINIPI from attorneys and 
consultants who were providing money to Lilly to repay the loan, was 
it your understanding that they were all supposed to come in to you 
for approval ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Some did and some did not. 

]Mr. Saxders. But you thought that they were supposed to come 
in to you ? 

yiv. Xelsox. Like I say. some did come to me and some did not 
come to me. Some were paid, you know, that I had formally approved, 
and some that I did not. 

Mr. Saxders. Did you give any instructions to Tsham with regard 
to what should be sent to you for approval ? 

oNIr. Xelsox. T think Isliam knew. I do not recall any formal in- 
structions. It was a matter that he knew. 



6692 

Mr. Sanders, Did you J?fiin any understandino; as to how Isham 
would know that a billing was spurious, as opposed to one for services 
truly rendered ? 

Mr. Nelson. I don't know^ that lie always knew. I don't know that 
I ahvays knew. 

Mr. Sanders. Are you saying that there was no system by which 
Isham or you would be alerted ? 

Mr. Nelson. I am saying there is no real way that you can tell, like 
on legal fees, when a large amount of legal work is being done, that 
you can really pin down, you know, that closely. 

Mr. Sanders. Were you aware of any arrangement with the firms 
by which they would perhaps identify such billings by some code? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I was not. 

Mr. Sanders. Or by a cover note to be detached later ? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; I am not aware of that. 

Mr. Sanders. You told us that possibly at two board meetings you 
made some mention that the attorney fees were high because they 
were being reimbursed for political contributions. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Sanders. Was it understood that these remarks were not to be 
included in the minutes? Was thei'e any instruction or understanding? 

Mr. Nelson. I would say it was understood that those remarks were 
not to be included in the minutes. 

IVfr. Sanders. Was the board informed on these occasions of the 
means by wdiich the money was passing from these firms to the ulti- 
mate recipients, that is, by the device of Lilly, let's say ? 

Mr. Nelson. They knew^ that Lilly was involved in that sort of 
thing. Some of the board members actually called on him to do some 
of those things. 

Mr. Sanders. Was the board informed of the identity of the 
recipients ? 

Mr. Nelson. In some instances, yes. In some instances, no. Do you 
mean did the board know^ who we were supporting? 

Mr. Sanders. Yes. 

Mr. Nelson. Pretty generally, I think. 

Mr. Sanders. Did the board know that the great burden of con- 
tributions presumably in 1969 and 1970 was to pay for the money 
given to Kalmbach ? 

ISIr. Nelson. No ; that was not spelled out. 

Mr. Sanders, Did the board know that Kalmbach had received 
any- 



Mr. Nelson. Not Kalmbach as such ; no. 

Mr. Sanders. Did the board know that money had been given for the 
Republican administration ? 

Mr. Nelson, Yes; as a matter of fact, board members themselves — 
I think if you would check the records, the expense accounts of board 
members who themselves turned in their own expense accounts to re- 
•cover political contributions that they themselves had made. 

Mr. Sanders. For what period of time are you speaking? 

Mr. Nelson. Any period of time. 

Mr. Sanders. Over the last 4 years ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Sanders. Prior to that time also ? 



6693 

Mr. Xelsox. Prior to that time also. I do not say every board mem- 
ber, i say you will liiid that that was done. 

Mr. Zanders. Can you give us an approximation of the nmnber that 
were involved^ 

Mr. ^s'elson. i\o; I have not gone over that. You would just have to 
let the record speak lor itself on that. 

Mr. Sanders. Of course there would be no way of telling from the 
records on the face of them. 

^Ir. Xelsox. You understand that in the matter of the board's ex- 
penses the board policed itself. The management did not do that. 

Mr. Sanders. What i am saying is, tiie mere examination of the 
records would not show which were for legitimate expenses and which 
were not. 

Mr. Nelson. I guess you would have to ask, but I understand that — 
well, 1 guess you would have to ask the board members. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you know for a fact that Mr. iiutterbrodt was in- 
volved in such contributions^ 

Mr. Nelson. 1 have been told that he has publicly stated that before 
the board. 

^Ir. Sanders. That he has submitted vouchers to cover contributions 
that he has made to candidates i 

yh: Nelson. That is my undei'standing. 

Mr. Sanders. To Democratic candidates as well as Republican 
candidates? 

Mr. Nelson. I could not tell you the candidates. I believe that Mr. 
Butterbrodt is a Kepublican, but I do not Iviiow^ if that has any sig- 
nihcance as to what candidates he gave contributions to. And 1 may be 
wrong about his being a Republican, but I believe he is. 

Mr. Weitz. We will not hold you to that. 

Mr. Nelson. I don't want to get Mr. Butterbrodt — either way, he 
might be alt'ronted by what I call him. 

Mr. Sanders. I think I missed out on the approximate date of your 
meeting with Kalmbach at the Madison Hotel where Colson, Tom 
Evans, and Harrison were present. 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, boy. I can't 

Mr. Sanders. I think you did say it was in 1970. 

Mr. Gallman. The record shows late November 1970. 

Mr. Sanders. Our record? 

Mr. Gallman. Yes; in this interview. 

Mr. Sanders. Thank you. 

You made mention yesterday of AMPI contributions to Hum- 
phrey in 1970. I believe you said that a request was made to you 
by Parr. Am I recalling this correctly? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not remember in what connection you are talking 
about there. We did contribute to Senator Humphrey's campaign 
in 1970. 

Mr. Sanders. Funds aside from TAPE funds? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe that is right. 

Mr. Sanders. And what I am trying to ascertain is the means by 
which the funds were made obtainable 

Mr. Nelson. You would have to get that from Bob Lilly. 

]\fr. Sanders. You have no understanding of the obtaining of 
funds? 



6694 

Mr. Nelson. I would if m}^ memory was refreshed, but I just do 
not recall, and I cannot tell you the amounts either. 

Mr. Sanders. Did you have any success in contacting: the pilot ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. I (ruess I told Alan in youi- absence that I have 
not. But I will pursue that, and I will got a hold of him, and I will 
inform you as to wliat he says about that in Minneapolis. I will make 
a note on the dates that we are talkinfr about. "We are talking about 

Mr. Sanders. July of 1971. 

Mr. Weitz. Is this in respect to Valentine, Sherman? 

Mr. Sanders. July of 1971 and December of 1971. Do you want 
any other dates ? Oh. Alan, you were not here. 

Mr. Weitz. No. 

Mr. Sanders. I think I may have asked you this. Did you have 
any direct conversation with Parr concernino; tlie activities of John- 
son in "Washington, D.C., on behalf of Mills? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Sanders. In your trip to Louisville on ]\farch 23-24. 1971, in 
your effort to induce Ala.eia to free some SPACE funds for the 
reelection, was there any tliought on vour part tliat funds other than 
trust funds would be used bv any of the dairy cooperatives? 

Mr. Nelson. No ; we were talking aV)out trust funds. 

Mr. Sanders. For quite some time. ^AfPT had used corporate funds 
to assist political candidates. And then it appears we come into an era 
when you have in mind the usf^ of trust funds, and perhaps actually 
getting away from the other system. 

Can you recall any waterslied conference or discussion at which you 
or any of your staff decided that from here on out we are going to use 
trust funds ? 

Mr. Nelson. It was after the campaign of 1068 that we decided that 
we wanted to find a better way. So that led to the fonnation of TAPE. 

Mr. Sanders. Did this occur in a meeting or a conference, or Avas it 
some sort of evolving thing? 

Mr. Nelson. Just an evolving thing. It was not in a meeting or a 
conference. 

Mr. Sanders. Yet. you did not adhere to this with regard to lending 
and payment to Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Nelson. That's ri^ht. "Well, we did initially. It came out of 
TAPE funds. 

Mr. Sanders. You reverted for a while there ? 

jNIr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Sanders. Did you at any time articulate any promise to any of- 
ficial of the Nixon administration or the Nixon reelection effort to 
make a certain amount of money available for the reelection of the 
President in return for an increase in milk price supports ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you have knowledge that anyone else in AMPI 
did so? 

Mr. Nelson. No, sir. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you have knowledge that any official of any other 
dairy co-op or trust did so ? 

Mr. Nelson. No. sir. 

Mr. Sanders. Did you ever hear anyone in any of the dairy co-ops 
verbalize the idea that the payments which were made to Aarious ad- 



6695 

juncts of the reelection effort were in fulfillment of any understand- 
ing that this would be done if the milk price support were increased? 
. ^Ir. Xelsox. Do you mean in connection with payments that they 
were making subsequent to it and that sort of thing ? 

Mr. Saxders. After the support. 

Mr. Nelsox. That has been put in print. I have seen that idea ex- 
pressed in print by the president of Mid-America Dairymen, I be- 
lieve. Mv. Powell. I have heard people say that sort of thing. That was 
done by people who really did not participate in actually pressing and 
getting the job done. 

Mr. Saxders. Has anyone from AMPI ever said that? 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not believe you've seen anything in print from 
AMPI. but I'm sure that's been said by farmers out in the countryside. 
That is the sort of thing 

]Mr. Saxders. Principally, I was talking about officials of the co-ops. 

Mr. Xelsox. Well, Mid- Am — he was the president of it, and his 
intentions were good. It's just that he was not aware of the full facts. 

]Mr. Saxders. There would be a difference between making the con- 
tributions in the way of gratitude for action taken by the administra- 
tion, as opposed to making the payments in fulfillment of an obliga- 
tion? 

]Mr. Xelsox. That is rio^ht. There is a matter of semantics involved 
there, too. There is no obligation to fulfill because of the price support 
increase. 

^Ir. Saxders. You have told us of one occasion when Kalmbach 
told you the reelection effort did not desire any further contributions 
by the dairy industry. 

Do you know of any other instances when it was conveyed to you or 
your staff that the reelection effort did not desire any further contri- 
butions? 

^Ir. Xelsox. Xot that I recall. 

Mr. Saxders. At any time since March 24, 1971, have you been 
apprised by any responsible official in the Xixon administration or 
reelection effort that any action taken by you on March 24, 1971, or 
any representations made by you on that day resulted in the price 
increase, the increase in the support level the following day ? 

]Mr. Xelsox. Xo. 

]Mr. Saxders. The various dairy trusts, as the record shows, made 
many contributions to a great vai'iety of (Congressmen and Senators, 
Eepublicans and Democrats, and to a great variety of Presidential 
candidates. 

Do you know of any formalized allocation of funds at the beginning 
of a period of time Avhereby these contributions ensued ? 

Do you understand ? 

]Mr. Xelsox. Yes. Xo. 

]\Ir. Saxders. In other words, let's say at the beginning, when a 
Presidential race began sometime in the beginning, sometime in 1971, 
let's say, would anybody from AMPI or the other co-ops have gotten 
together and said, now, we are going to try to allocate this much money 
to Democratic Congressmen and this much to the Democratic Senators, 
and this much to Republican Senators ? 

You know of no arrangement such as that ? 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo, I don't recall any ari-angement such as that. 

Mr. Saxders. You were asked a number of (luestions about conversa- 
tions between you and Dr. Mehren at the time you left AMPI, and 

30-33" (book IS) O - 74 - 21 



6696 

the word "co?nm it merit" was used ir; many of thee- 4. 'oiions to you 
and ir many of your answers. What I want to clarify is how the word 
"'comniihrM'rit" mij^lit have been used by you, and how it might have 
been tlio'^rht of Ijy Dr. Melireii, if we can. . 

I <j,Ht}ier tlvat 3'ou are tclliiij;- us tliat you felt thai, there was some 
corninitnient (>!i the basis of what you had told various administration 
and reeh'etion peophs in general toj ins that a great sum of money 
would be avaihiltk^ if th(\v ]~>rovided y. ii '-ommittee nvi ■nes. 

Wliat 1 ;;t;i vondoriug is whethei" th;it type of a comnntrM'TU ean 
be distingiii-hi(l from what some poplo may think of as aconi![(hTacnt 
to niahe conti i>)utions Ixcause of a pr'-T-iise based upon a representation 
tlint the .-^iii'poit k'vel wouhl be irure;!,~ed. AA'o might be tahcing about 
two diJTcr.i.t ty{K-s of i-onuiptnu jit ii( r.-. and wliat T a r.nt to 'l.-iiify is 
lioAv you u.-ed tliis in tallving with D;-. ^b.hr( n. 

Mr. Xelsox. Dr. Mehren uiuhusto -d that there v,;^s no ('oiniiiiiment 
ba-ed upon any ])ast favors granted on bolialf of rii- cidministiation, 
if you want to put it tliat way, or ba-i-l u})on the fti -T tluit tli-y liad 
taken spccifii' a<hninistrative actions vx itli regard to :;;:■. laatters atlect- 
ing the dairy industry. 

Mr. Saxdvi:^. "VMien he asked you — and vou did ttll u-^ on the i-eeord 
here that Dr. Meliren had asked you if A^IPI liad unAo any connnit- 
ment for political contributions, and your aijswer vns yes. 

Is your answer there related only to i-onnnitment.- i o give to the com- 
mittees, rather than a coinmitment to pav foi- a pr(ji. ;~e to iia-rease the 
support level ? 

]NIr. Xelsox. Absohitely. 

^Ir. SaxdJ:rs. I found it, Alan. It is in the Straclian memo with re- 
gard to tlie 1070 election, page 2 of the Strachan memo. Let me read it. 

"Kalmbaeh's concerns center around rci-ent pn .-- tlischisuros that 
linked Jack Gleason and the 1970 campaign election fmnling.'' 

Mr. AYeii z. Right. And you are saying that that- 

Mr. Saxd]:rs. Well, wliat I say or argue is immaterial. 

!Mr. Weitz. ok, that is the reference you are makit.ir ? 

Mr. Saxheiis. f Nods in the affirmatixe.] 

Mr. WriTZ. OK. 

Mr. Saxdeks. Do you think that Ivalmba.h never knew that TAPH 
was submitting repoi ts to the Clerk of the House i 

Mr. Xelsox. I do not l:now. 

]\fr. Saxders. You do not knov/ wht'ther lie did or not ? 

jNIr. Xelsox. 1 do not kr^ow. 

Mr. Saxders. He was concerned aljout ih(> mmiiio ,,f r},o doiidline of 
April 7, after which thei-e would be full ])ublic di-closures. which 
would seem to indicate tiiat he thongiit connibution- before rh;it date 
were not lieingmade a m.atter of public record. 

Mr. Xelsox'. [Xods in the affirmati\e.] That Incln'r occurreil to me. 

Mr. Saxhers. There was never any di-aission ^ 

Mr. Xelsox. Xo: there wasn't. 

Mr. Saxders, Mr. Weitz asked you a fevv- (juestio!:- concerning the 
"Xo Retreat From Totnorrow."" 

Mr. Wnrrz. I thiidc the record shows that I asked who ordered the 
TTiS investigation. 

]Mr. Saxders. OK. Did AMPI pav for the costs in publishing of this 
book? 

Mr. Xelsox. We paid part of it. 



6697 

Mr. Saxders. "WHiat part ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I cannot tell you the amount. It was a substantial part 
of the money. 

Mr. Sanders. By percentages, do you have any idea ? 

Mr. Nelsox. I don't have any idea. 

Mr. Sanders. At whose request was this payment made ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall who it was that asked us to do that. 

Mr. Sanders. Was it someone in the Johnson administration ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Sanders. Someone working in the White House ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do not recall. fLither that, or for the national commit- 
tee. Somebody connected with the administration. 

]Mr. Sanders. Did it appear to you tliat this was a project desired 
by the Democratic National Conunittee ^ 

]Mr. Nelson. It appeared to me it was a project desired by the 
President. 

Mr. Sanders. For what overall purpose ? 

Mr. Nelson, (jf getting the stoi-y of the administration, an objective 
story, out to libraries. That's the way it was presented to us — libraries, 
schools — a message about not the adminish'ation so nuich, but as about 
wliat America was about. 

]\Ir. Sanders. Did the volume that was eveiitually distributed bear 
any indication that it was ]Kii'tially funded by AMPI '. 

Mr. Nelson. I don't think so. As a matter of fact, I know I have 
one of those vohimes. Put I cannot — and I think if it did })ear an 
indication that I would remeuiber it. 1 am all l)ut cei-tain that it did not. 

Mr. Sanders. So that AMPI recoixcd no actual pul)licity benefit 
from this ^ 

Mr. Nelson. No. sir. 

]Mr. Sanders. Wliat benefit did A^IPI receive from it \ 

Mr. Nelson. No directly measuralde benefit. It was looked upon as 
a juiblic service soi't of ex^ieiulituii'. 

Mr. Sanders. Do you recall in wliat year that was pul)lis]icd and 
distributed I 

Mr. NfiLSON. It seems to mc that it was IDOT or 1068. I am not sure. 

Mr. Sanders. And coi'poi'atc fluids \vim(> ust'd to pay for this? 

]N[r. Nelson. \'es. sir. 

]Mr. Sanders. Is tliere oiu' hotel in ^Pnnosota where you customarily 
s'ay wlien you are there, or do you have a variety '. 

Mr. Nelson. I haven't stayed there that often, that much. I have 
sayed at the IJadisson. Pve stayed — 1 think tliero is a motel out near 
ttie airport caHed the Tluuiderbifd. I have stayed — I cannot think of 
the name I was tryiner to think of yesterday. It is a new, large motel 
o-it near the airport. There is another hotel downtown that I've stayed 
a'".. I cannot think of the name of it. I did not stay theie often. 

Mr. Sanders. I am finished. 

Mr. Weitz. I have a few more questions. 

At the time of the delivery of money to Mr. Kalmbach in lOGO, on 
or around that time, were you aware of any surplus or deficit in the 
1968 Presidential campaign of President Nixon ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I was not. 

Mr. Weffz. You were not aware of whctliei' there was a deficit, or 
vi'hether or not there was a suri)lus '. 

Mr. Nelson. There was a rumor that there was actually a surplus. 



669S 

Mr. Weitz. So that to the extoiit that you had any knowledge or 
recollection you would not have thoiitrht the payment was •roiiiir to 
l)ay for the lOGS canipaiiru ? 

Mr. Nelsox. That is riirht. 

Mr. Wettz. Did you have any Iniov.ledire of Mr. Kalnibach's role 
vfith. resj)ef"t to the President, other rh;iu a freneral f;i.!idrai-:er for the 
President and his artornev ? 

>rr. Xr.i.>.ix.ThitV:all." 

Mr. Wetiz. '^'ou did not knov,- his i\ iatiori-^dp lu a p;i.rri"nl;ir <on- 
gressional or other cainji:UL''n ^ 

Afr. Xels'-x. Xo. 

Mr. Weeiz. Xov>-, in <'\hi})it X^). "^. v.lijch v-.i^ refi r!\:d to before as a 
memorandum from Marioji IFarrisn:! t) John Whitn'ccr ori March 19, 
1971 . is the following sentence oi- senr encos : 

Last year t^ecrotary Hartliii favired ^^'i rercoiu. Binle-': .Urootor M:iyo and 
others were opposed <ni the grounds that it w-uld cost too nu: -h : S'> penont won 
out. This- year, the Secretary leans strontrly r;._';^inst Sr> perci ::'. 

Does that accord with vour recollection? 

]\Ir. Xelsox. That is in accordajic:^ v.lth liis decision. 

Mr. Weitz. X^'ow, you have talked about no parti ^ilar favors that 
you were seeking, or at least trying: to purchase or b:;y with yor.r con- 
tributions to tiie Pre5i<li-nt in 1071 nr.l I'-T'i. 

Without putting any words into y..;ir mout]i as to prior test':ooriy, 
but to ask you directly : Were you concerned, howe\ ar, in light of the 
represei)tatio;5s throughout 197(>-7l. tlutt there w<. ■■•1 be subs-Iaiitial 
amounts forthcoming, were you concerned that if y:)U did not in fact 
make such contributions when aske>l, v/hen the comniittees were ul- 
timately organized, th;it you and riie co-(^p part", i^arly wndd Im 
placed in disfavor in the administration ? 

Mr. X'et.sox. I think that T wo.ild have filt tb'i there certainly 
wouldn't be many doors o])en. You wouldn't have ni'U'h of a basis to 
talk to anybody and got them to believe you concrii'.ii lt positions yovi 
were taking and repiesentations that }ou were mak';ig if you didn't 
keep otlier representations that you had niailc. That i-onld be my con- 
struction on it, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. When you talked abor.t •(•mmitment-. •.■. iih Dr. Meliren, 
whatever the meaning of the term, ci itainly at least it i-onnores a rej)re- 
sentati(m or a promise without reganl foi- somctinng in return, at 
least a promise tJiat certain contributions '.v<>ald b. !:iadr Avlien cor:i- 
mittees v.-ero availalde. It certairJy iiieans tiuit. 

i^^r. Xeesox. It certainly does. 

Mr. Weitz. And tiiat is the least meaning that you irdended to con- 
vey to Dr. Mrhren ? 

Mr. XEL-iox'. That is the meaning I intended to c.-uvey. 

Mr. Weitz. You were asked Avhetiier it refers to a i>romise in. return 
for a ]>arti<'ular favor. 

In light of what you have testifii-il. does it also nn-an that it was a 
promisA- that you iiad made in exchai-'i;' . or in the iiope of Ix-ing gen- 
erally in favor with thi' administration on a numb.-i of matter- or on 
all ilairy matters? 

Mr. iNTEEsoN. In the hope of bciuL' in fa\"or on al! dairy matters, 
with the realization that you tuner can pre\ai! I'M) j-.ri.'int ot tlic time 
on anything. 



6699 

Mr. Weitz. And in the hope of avoidinjj: bcinji in disfavor Avith the 
administration. Is that also correct ? 

Mr. Xelsox. The opposite of bein^r in favor is disfavor. 

Mr. Weitz. And that was particidaily true after the earlier repre- 
sentations had been made that contributions would Ix' forthcomiuir ? 

Mr. Xelsox. I think it would be worse to reprCvSent that you were 
froing: to make contril)utions and not make them. If you're going to do 
that, 1 think vou'd be l)etter.olT never to make any representations 
at all. 

Mr. "Weitz. "Were you generally in the habit of. or did you gen- 
erally tell members of the other co-ops — meaning their leaders — of 
your meetings with top Government officials or fundraisers such as 
Mr. (onnally or Mr. Kalmbach I 

Mr. Xei.sox. Yes: they were aware. You see. 'Mv. Connally was not 
a to]) fundi'aiser for the Republicans. 

Mr. Weitz. I said top (rovcrinnent officials or fundraisers. 

Mr. Xei.sox. Oh. 

"Well. I think any time we met with, for instance the Secretary or 
the President, they knew it. 

Mr. "Wkitz. Can von exi:)^ain t1icn whv you did ]iot toll Mr. Parr 
of vour meeting with Mr. Kalmbach on ^larch 24? 

]\Ir. Xei.sox'. I did not put Mr. Kalmbach in the same category. 

Mr. Weitz. You are saving you did not generally tell others of 
your meetings with Mr. Kalmbach ? 

]Mr. Xelsox'. I did not generally tell people altout the $100,000 con- 
tribution to ]Mr. Kalmbach. 

Mr. Weitz. I am not talking about 1000. I am talking about 1971 
when you met with ^Ir. Kalmbach. 

Did you tell others of your meeting with ]\Ir. Kalmbach. or was 
that the type of meeting you would have informed others of? 

^Ir. Xelsox'. Yes: I believe we did tell them of the meeting with 
]Mr. Kalmbach in 1971. 

]\Ir. Weitz. March 1971 at the ^Madison Hotel with Mr. Chotiner? 

Mr. X>.LSox-. Oh, you are talking about the meeting at night? 

Mr. Weitz. What meeting are you talking about? 

]Mr. X>.LSox'. I was thinking in terms of the meeting with Mr. Kalm- 
bach when we had Mr. Evans and Mr. ]\Iitchell. 

]Mr. Weitz. Xo: I am talking about the meetinar late at night at 
the Madison Hotel, :March 24. 1971. 

Did you tell anyone else about the meeting that you can recall? 

^Ir. Xelsox*. I do not recall that I did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you tell Mr. Parr about the meeting? 

Mr. Xelsox'. I do not believe that I did. 

Mr. Weitz. And is it likelv vou would have told others if vou did 
not tell Mr. Parr? 

]Mr. Xelsox. Oh, there might have been others that I would have 
told and not told ]Mr. Parr. 

]Mr. Weitz. Dike whom ? 

Mr. X'elsox. If Mr. Lilly had been there I might have told him. 
If Mr. Alagia had been there I might have told him. 

You have got to understand Mr. Parr. If Mr. Parr had known that 
you were going to meet anyone down there, he would want to be sitting 
down there talking, to keep pressing on the price support thing. I fig- 



6700 

ured ■wo liad done all avo could vip in liiat point, and there wasn't anj" 
point of heating it any mo)r. We had >oen the Piosideju. 

Mr. Wkhz. In fact, you said that Mr. Chotiner .-ai I it was not cer- 
tain, but it hooked like you had the increased 

Mr. Xr.i.sox. No; 1 didn't say that. I -aid Mr. Cli-Aijier told us not 
to count on anytliinij initil we got it — nv)t to coiuit on. it . 

I said thjd Congi'essMian JJelcher was telling that it was done. 

^Fr. DoKSPLN. If 1 uiay just ask a ({u '.-iloii - ,vas M;. ( "lioii:i' : trying 
to give you some encouraging tVeling aljuut tiiv admini-t ration's 
decision ? 

Mr. XiiLSox. No; he sure wasn't. 

Mr. DoRsiTN-. Wafc: lie trying to give yo;i anj- iinpi .'S-io!- with re^piTt 
to any possihle chai:go in a<hninistrari\':' |.0sition ? 

Mr. Nr^LsO-v. No; Mv. Chotiner was mainly ^)iqi:t d and excrci-;ed at 
■he fact that Mr. Kalii:!>a.';h was not ih*:u;. 

Mr. Wf.7 Tz. What about before that, thougli ■ 

Mr. N ■:L^• IN. I hacbi't t v on seen him 1 elure tl\at. 

Mr. Wt:itz. Who told you of the meeting with Mr. iCalmbach? 

Mr. Nelj^on". T said 1 don't recnjJ who caD^d aii-l ':aid there .va? a 
iiieGting or when. It was either Mr. Chotiner or Mr. Jlarristm. And the 
pi-;-po&c of the m->eting \vith Mr. Krilmbach, as I reeail, \vas that Mr. 
C'U>tiner was going to see that l\ii . Kalnibach got the comndttees. 

■ Ir. Weitz. Xnd it didn't deal wirii siibstantJFe pf 'licies? 
Fr. Nr.T.sox. No. 

idr. DoRssx. So at that point ihe p^ipoacj of the mi.v:ri;,g was in effect 
sti ictly one dealing with contributions p ' a time 

■ vfr. Nel-on. That's right. It wasii'l. a meeting, really, yon know. 
Here this guy's a law^yei. He is in tlie position of '-'jing };:\y iuwye.'-. 
Yott .ay— ".veil, you Iiad a meetirjg. W ' Vveic siltin?.' right there in the 
Mod; on Hotel in the lobby befoif God and everybody v/nJtin.g on 
Kair. bach t^- gei: there, jnd it took uk all of 5 miiiutes at the most 
one*- wo got uvstairs aiitl ivoJcc Kahnba-'h up ;vnd found him. And I.'?. 
said that he would get the :-.oriimittc.3~, and it is uaoquixocally under 
sto; d that hfi is going to get them. That's the position we. are in. 

'■[v. Do'tip.Ey. 8o Ov^t this conver^ati<;u — ni exchange I guess is a 
bef r word - looi: place between the President's decision on March 12, 
19 'I, and t)\Q. rr>Wti\8 dale of tliar decision, which was on April 1, 
19! I. T.he discussion, conversation, or v.'hate\'tir it vvu^, took juace in 
thf period? 

lir. Net-soic. Took place in that p.iiod ? 

i\ I'c. DoRSEN. Yes. 

Mv. Niirsoii. Yes; ih ihd peri':;]. Aju 1 follo\viiig ;hai in-z-tion 
right? 

>Jr. GAr.T.:\rA y. Yes. sir. 

J ' i\ Nft.sox. y\li ri:.rhf. 

}.. :•. DoRSEX. I have no f\irthor questions. I'oes anyone else ? 

i\ 1. ?>ANn>T.K ^ [N;hL- i.'i ilie uegntive.] 

IS r. Wkttt;. [Nods in ilie negati>e.] 

j^■ r. Nfjsox. Who do you want me to •'•aU ;d'Oi;t ;!;is date, ii I tind 
out- and I am jroin-T to make a dil ig'. Jit vi]'oY\ . 

^. ■". S\ vnr.j.s. Call mi . 
.Wirr/.. Off the record. 
iscus^i•'ln off (he it-, oid. \ 
. Weit/. If thei-e are uo .niov(» nuestions we v.iii adinurn. 

i 'hereupon, at 1 :'20 p.m.. th.' hearinii- in the abine-(>Jitith^d matter 
adj irned.] 



6701 



Nelson Exhibit No. 1 

LAW OFFICES 

Reeves 6c Harrison 

SUITE 500 
I70I PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE. N , W. 

CDwvN HARRISON W A S H I N G TO N , D . C . 2 O O O 6 



OeCRT F SACCC 
TRON SOlTER 



TELEPHONE a02 29S-9030 wu. MONTOOMtR 

TELEX •4A0376 CRCK 



December 16, 1970 



The Honorable Richard Nixon ... ^ - ■ 

The White House 
Washington, D. C. 

Re: §22 Tariff Commission (Milk) Recoirimendations 
Presidential Proclamation 

Dear Mr. President: 

This letter discusses a matter of some delicacy 
and of significant political impact. 

Since January 1 my Washington partner Mari6n 
Harrison (one of your 1968 Virginia Co-Chairmen) and I have 
represented Associated Milk Producers, Inc. ("AMPI"). At 
the White House in September you privately met AMPI's two 
key leaders, Harold Nelson and Dave Parr. You spoke by tele- 
phone from the beach at San Clemente to Secretary Hardin and 
to Harold Nelson during AMPI's annual convention in Chicago 
Labor Day weekend. You told Harold of your intent person- 
ally to address AMPI's next annual convention (a gathering 
of almost 30,000 dairy farmers and their families). 

AMPI has followed our advice explicitly and will 
do so in the future. AMPI contributed about $135,000.00 to 
Republican candidates in the 1970 election. We are now work- 
ing with Tom Evans and Herb Kalmbach in setting up appropri- 
ate channels for AMPI to contribute $2 million for your re- 
election. AMPI also is funding a special project. 

On September 21 the Tariff Commission recommended 
to you, after it did a study you requested in May, four spe- 
cific quotas for four specific dairy products. These recom- 
mendations are well documented and by now are well known in 
the dairy and related industries. No Presidential Proclama- 
tion has been issued. 

The problem is this. The dairy industry cannot 
understand why these recommendations were not implemented 



very quickly. The lor.gost the Doir.ccratJ ev.?r took to in- 
^:le»Tient a Tariff Ccniir.issicn dairy recomMi.endation v/as 16 
days. Oa cr. : c :c;.'\s.lori , Presicant O'onnscn evan imposed 
quotas beic;r-2 he receive", the Taririf Ccnunisaion ' -s recori- 
men jatioas ! 

The cverall parity ratio is at it'.; iowtst since 
Dacen'bor 1933. Fariricrs a-;r.erilly nre iinliarpy with the 
economy. Ycu kr.ov/ cur far.r.b-slt losses in th-i olcccioa. 

The Government saves money (by saving price sup- 
port payments) and the farner n;akes a.oney whin the recc.T\- 
mended quotas are imposed. The products are all "evasion" 
products - that is, products v/hich historically vvsre rr)t 
imported but which started tc be iin.p:)rted only after q-ntas 
were imposed on other products. 

The dairy and related industries have great faith 
in your personal leadership. At the. same time, they are 
shajicn by the economy. The right kind of Proclamation is- 
sued quickly would dramatize your personal interest in a 
large segment of agriculture. 

This problem is bcgcjed down v/ithin the White 
ilouse. It is i\ victim of the bureaucracy - the Trade Bill 
people, the National Security Council people, the domestic 
people. It has been studied snd restudied. It is not 
moving. 

V'-3 write you both a3 advocates and 3s supporters. 
The time is ripe politically and economically to impose the 
recoirmended quotas. Secretary Hardin, the Tariff Comjnission 
a-id the dairy industry all support this. All that is neces- 
t;ary is a s im.pl e Proclan-ation impieinenting the four specific 
Tariff Commission recomm.endations. 

(We attach a nore detailed Memorandum. The sub- 
ject is quits interestiuvj if yova have tine .Scr it.) 

Re &peetTii ily , .,.,-■■ 









HILLINGS 



P JH : ek 
Enclosure 



6703 
Nelson Exhibit No. 2 

roR iy>:i;:n T ATC uriLKASE ko:--. n -RxnER T':r ^r-'-ATio:; co-:tait : 

Artlnir I-'oczyyeinba 
^A!;'JARY b, 1971 Associated Milk Producers, Inc. 

4tli Floor, GPr: Life Building 
San Antonio, Texas 78216 
Aroa Codo: 512 3 11-8651 

ELKIiORN, 'a'TSCONSIN — "The Nixon Administration is to be commended for taking decisive ac-ion to 

restore congressional intent and to prevent 'over-burdening' the domestic r,ar-;et for d=iry 

oroiucts through evasions of import quota regulations," John Butterbrodt, Burnett, '.%'i~rcr.sin, 

said today. 

"The Presidornt's December 31 proclamation establishing import quotas for four catcvories of 
dairy products has been the object of a lot of work by A^-iPI for many monti:;?," he said. 

Butterbrcdt, President of Associated Milk Producers, Inc., spc^aking to a dairy farr.er r^^eti 
at Elkhorn, Wisconsin, said that dairy products dccignrd to circumvent the Tariff Corr-.issicn 
product definition and to circumvent congressional intent have rcluced farm prices fcr milk ard 
have increased Department of Agriculture purchases ci dairy rrcducts under the price support 
program. "USDA purchases of butter, non-fat dry milk and cheese have been srnewhat hi^":ier this 
past year than in 1969, and i.iuch of the increase has come about because oi inc^reased irports of 
the products that President Nixon specified in his proclamation," Eutterbrcdt sto.ted. "Furtl-ier 
action is needed to deal with lactose and cheese varieties priced higher than 47C per pound," 
he said, "and hopefully, the President will soon deal with tho?3 products." 

"V.'ithout President Nixon's proclamation, American dairy farriers could n::;t have hoped for 
market prices that would reflect rising production ccsts, and the damage to cur dc:r'tstic dairy 
industry v.ould have been costly to ccnHumers. Daity Farmer rAmb-srs have been going dcvn too 
rapidly," Buttorbrodt said, and "Pre:5ident vixen's decision is a step .tcvard rr.ore stability in 
our market that will be remembered and appreciated by dairy farmers." 



G704 
Neisdn KxiriBiT No. 3 

WASil i NO TON 



Jaiiu'irv 30, \ 



' i I. 



Air. Harold S. Mel sun 

General Manager 

Associated iVlilk Produce i-s. Inc. 

800 N. W. Loop 41U 

Post Office Box 3 2 287 

San Antonio, Texas 73216 

Dear Mr. Nelson: 

I thought you might be interested in }i3,ving some 
photograplis taken at the recent briefing hi.ld at 
the White House. 

The President considered it a ni'^st worlhwlvile 
session and we look forward to working with you 
iri the future. 



)ince rel V, 



(L/- 



IleiiVy C]. C'asiien II 
Deputy y\ssistant to (he pj-esidcP-l 



Ehiclosures. 






••''7? 



6705 



Nelson Exhibit No. 4 

LAW orncES 

Reeves & H^vrhisox 

SUITE 500 
\70l PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE. N. W. 

WASHINGTON, DC. SOOOe 

telephone s02 298-9030 

telex 1«c376 crok 

casle"heevi.*w" 

January 14, 1971 



The Honorable Clifford M. Hardin 
Secretary of Agriculture 
Department of Agriculture 
Room 20 
V.'ashington, D. C. 



Re: 



Meeting with the President 
Dairy Industry 



Dear Mr. Secretary: 



vta buuiuj-L iierewiLu luc xi5._ y^u , t^Ci. hj-^j.^h^z 
and I discussed wtien v;e met in your office on January 
11, 1971. The list names those p-^^ple ovr client Associ- 
ated Milk Producers, Inc. v.'ould like to see inx'ited to 
meet with the Presiden;: and yourself at the V/hite House. 

Please note we have listed se^'eral learors of 
the dairy industry v;ho are officials of dairy cr'^-iniza- 
tions other than ?i-l?I so that v;e might have broad dairy 
leadership representation at the meeting. 

VJe appreciate your generous cffer to carry the 
ball in setting up this m.eeting. 




TTkICIJ EDVri'N HARPvISOI-l 



MEH:ek 
Enclosure 



6706 



LIST C:~ KEY D.M RV INDUSrrRV riL;'~G:;NHL 
lO MEilT 'vITH TiiE PkHSIDK-iT 

Li sted Alpbab cti cal Ij/ 



Mr. Paul Affeldt, Prosidcnt 

Pure Milk Products <" o-Op.?r?, t ive ' ' ^ 

Sparta, V.'isconsin , 1656 

608 269-4356 

Paul Alagia, Esquire-, Executive Director and General Counsel 
Dairymen, Inc. 

506 Portland Federal Building 
Louisville, Kentucky 40218 
502 585-4301 

Mr. Melvin Besemer ,' . ■ 

Route 1 

Kev; Ulm, Minnesota 56073 

507 354-4404 

Mr. John E. Butterbrodt, Prcridr^nt " -. 

Associated Milk Producers, Inc. 

Route 1 ■• 

Burnett, Wisconsin 33922 

414 885-f-.076 

Mr. aill Eckles, General Managr-r 
Pure Milk Products Co-Cperative 
500 North Park Avenue ^ 

Fond du Lac, VJisconsin 549 35 
414 921-4720 

Mr. Don Gregg, Regional Manager 

Associated Milk Producers, Inc. 

Central Region 

1020 North Fourth Avenue 

Sibley, lov.a 51249 

712 754-2 511 • 

Mr. v;. R. Griffin 

Route 1 ^ ■ •' 

Newcastle, Oklahoma 73501 

405 778-3474 



6707 



Mr. C<-ir]ylc? IkinsGn, Regional Manc\ger 

Associated Milk Producers, Inc. 

Northern Region 

Box 455 

New Uln, Minnesota 56073 

507 354-8354 " • 

Marion Edv.yn Harrison, Fsquire 

V.'ashingtbn Counsel for Associated Milk Producers, Inc. 

Reeves & Harrison 

1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, N . W. 

Washington, D. C. 2000o 

202 SgS-QCJSO - . . 

Honorable Patrick J. Hillings 

V.'ashington Counsel for Associated Mill; Producers, Inc. 

Reeves & Harrison 

1701 Pennsylvania Avenue, N. W. 

V'ashington, D. C. 20006 

202 298-9030 ./ • 

Mr. Wesley Johnson, Executive Vice President and General 'anager 

Mid-America Dairymen, Inc. 

1101 East University ; "• 

Springfield, Missouri 65804 ' '■ 

417 881-8112 ^ . • 

Mr. John A. V.osQr, President . ■• 

Dairymen, Inc. 
'Route 1, Box 560 

Louisville, Kentucky 40218 ' ' ' ■ ' 

502 241-8281 . . ; " 

Harold S. Nelson, Esquire, General Manager 

Associated Milk Producers, Inc. 

GPM Building, 4th Floor • " . 

San Antonia, Texas 78216 

512 341-8651 

Mr. David L. Parr 

Associated Milk Producers, Inc. 

Box 9589 

Little Rock, Arkansas 72209 

501 562-1900 



>) (<»8 



Mr. bill rcnv-n, l'r.:zif]r,:-.t 
- Mid-An;erica Dairymr-n, Inc. 
Route ] 

P r 3 n ■: r. t --> n , M i s s ou r x C '\ 3 7 3 
816 71 «- 3101 

Mr. P. L. Robinson 
Dairynrn, Inc. 
Jonesboro, TcnnesscG 37659 
615 753-3306 

Mr. Avery Vose 

As50ciatr>d Milk Producers, Inc. 

Route 2 

Antiocl-!; Illinois 60002 

312 -127-2255 office 

Mr. Frajik OTiite 

Associatod Milk Producers, Inc. 

Route 2 

Cedar Vale, K^vnsas 6/024 

316 758-3600 

'"I 



cy 



Jv^ 



6709 



Nelson Exhibit No. 5 



r 







t-^^ 



8710 



NEi..Si>.\" EXHUUT N«>, t! 



'1 0- - 






j-^iioits L^aii t% SCO I'd 



iAr — :_ 
Ci't 



o Mcss-nao i^-icn^y . : .... 



i,' ?.p-^-/,ij 



i!!i-!-ii 



1 



To— 



.t h\or 









//'"^Z /-^ .^v? //5 



Mr 



~ ■ :■■ ,^.-. ,j ■-v--'*< ^( ^- i'~ — 



''~y'~-~-j.'\yi. ;-Cf.e ~y 



r 






Daie_ 



-^ Tsrna ^^^ :-.:_.Z.. _^^ — ^^. 






of_ 



$ M c 5 : 1 1; e Ts ;< ii i3 > 



Phone^ 



"o" LfD To;::c ■'C; i { willc-m l again 



rJ! 



To 
Dat 

Mr. 
of „ 










^'cv 




1 


MssMS'j 










p 






■ 7 




J. 


' ■IX*,.-^-... 


< 








PL 




c. 


'\ 


r:'^^. y 


-'/ 




-^t^/ 


7 






^ 




/ 

/ 


Viissifjs T;;ksti 


Sy- 








/ 















1 





— 


T^cn^Sr^ 


♦'" 


i - 'JNE 


o- 


1 ',' 

ne. _; -- 


'- 


■' '.' 


>•■ .> 


/ 


y? 


'^ -•'>■- A-.>A 


■^ 1 ij 


1 Ph.- 


! ". ■•■■-. ■ ■■ • ■ 




' ■ : = '. 







G711 



iJDv R. FOTTCft 



Nei.son ExinRJT Xo. 7 

I A// C •' <■ i C L -i 

RkK\J:'. S (5v: IlAiVICISOX 

S -^i I - £ 6 C O 

I70I r -IN". SYL^'A" ~ •■-vr-;uE. n w. 
Wi-SHINOTOK D C. 2000S 

7 1 •- 1 x -s - ; :• - c c -o < 



;-;arch 11, 19 71 



The Konorr.ble Chsrlcs '.". Colder. 
Special Ccjinsc] to tr.e Presidsr.t 
The \,'hite House 
V.'ashingVor,, D. C. 

R e : Dai ry Industr y - 851- of F r. ritv 

Dear Chuc];: 

You thir.": "rolizical" r.s I do so you c£=.n unc'er- 

closed - v.-hich blasts t\e .-.f :..i:ii s tration z-S thcv.'. h nc--;-i- 

ing liad been dcr.c; fc- zr.e csi-'v i.-.dustry. In t':;c ccurs2 

of the blast, he does hit upcn Bcr'.s things that need to 
be done. 

Mr. Hurr.rhrey can't loss. ^,ny tiling v.'e do he can 
attcrpt to take creii": fcr. Anything v;c don't do or delay 
in doing he co^r. Czrr. v.? fcr f riling to do cr fcr delaying 
in -doing. Of course, our rsrcle knc." \.'ho is doing vhat 

of 'it" tfor '..'liich, scsf-'ifng s-~riccly" politically , 'I su'_po = e 
one cannot blJure hi::.) . 

Our people often are frustrated - I know I am 
and I suspect you are - by una fact that i.-e have been able 
to v;ork out for the diiry industry r.-.ore or less v.hat it 
has v;anted during the presen- .".d::.inistrrition but often 
the strain on all cf us arc 'Jr.c delay are so great that 
the V2ter:.:e] on dees net 3ee:\ as juicy >.'hen the cai.cj- in- 
dustry fina]]y bit:;? into it, 1'he last r;ijor itcn the 
indu.::try v;ill rcguest fcr 5s:~.r. tire to ccr.s, ot'r.ir tl^.an 
tlio cver-<-7.c cheese 7 re c Ian..-, ni :<:-., is i:i>Z cf parity fcr 

announced, t).-- seener ic;.:_c.-.' j-.:e ..r. }'u.:.yhrey can be 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 22 



6712 



lion. Charlci: W. Colr.on 



2 - 



r-;ircli 11, 1971 



silenced. There arc sott.q DGr.iocr£its v;hom v.'c can keep quiet 
publicly. Mr. }Iun";phrcy is not one of t.hcjn. Klien lie sce-s 
an issue or the cppcaranco of an issue, he seizes it. 
Pcrhaos th-r.t is one of the preronj:tives of not h£vii-;rj the 
executive responsibility. 



At any rate, \ve mioht .as v;ell looh at the bad 
publicity as v;cll as the crod, so whatever it's v/o:;th the 
enclosure might interest yuu. ^^ 

// /I - 

Sincerely, 



C 




MARio:;'~:<.crj''i' 



J'jEH : ek 
Enclosure 
cc: Henry C, 



Cashen II, Esq. 



6713 



S217S 



COXGRtSSIOXAI. RrCORD — SI.XAT E 



M'D 



19'. 



•^Vhy not?" sske<l the wosriftn. iier arthritic 
hands clutuliiiij a n'.ei.ii.«.r\lk^r. 

"Sliut up. rrog rr.oiith; we're runnlii' tlils 
kit-.-J^cn." the jUJe snapped. The woman stood 
t.vprfiKjonlcrs lor ft iEoine;;t. thca cliuiBcd 
away to her room. 

ftO-YEj\K-OLD KITCHEN 

It WMf. 7 .im. In the Beacon Hill Nursing 
Home. 4530 N. Beat^on St.. where I ■.vorVcd as 
a niamtcUiUice man. Tlie verb.'xl abuse !n- 
nlrr'.*<l u{>'.>n thl.i helpless womart "was niHd 
ccmpan^d with the oU^er tnlstreatment tlio 
33 pati-.nt,; In t!ie home sullered at the hands 
of t;ie staft 

Before my brief stay was over. I would seo 
a 90-year-cld cripple punched and kicked 
f'^r bru.shii.g a di'^e'scd 'ool against Ihe i:nl- 
fonn of all employee. I would also obsen-e 
two aged women reduced to the deptlis of 
degradation as they screeched and clawed 
for possession of a tattered blanket after a 
winter njght withoirt heat. 

I would see rc:ichej scurrying across floors 
that were cni.=;ted with pj:ruruiilar.ed filth, 
smell the persistent stench of human w.osle, 
hear the hx-sterical cries of fom.er mental 
paticnU who had lived in the homo amid tiie 
elderly, ."-nd I would feel the touch of an old 
v/omari's trembljufr h:(nd as she begijcd me to 
sweep l.er out cf the place. 

"SWEEP ME AWAY" 

Her poi:(naiit plea w.-w; mn<^e on my first 
day as I was cleaning the floor. "Go aliead, 
sweep me out of here." she said. "Sweep me 
•away. I don't care. It's more than I can 
stand." 

Most .Amcric.Ttis will rtcall Feb. 5 as the 
day Apollo 14 Ir.iidcd on the moon. The [>.'.- 
tients in Beacon Hill will remember It as 
the ci.iy the boiler ruptured and near-zero 
cold, driven by ga/e-like winds, pierced tho 
walla of the decayinj building. 

Ti-^ruout the day. the words. "I'm cold. 
I'm cold." echoed down the eloomy halls of 
Beacon Hill. 

WaAPPED IN SW&\TEB3 

Wrapped in threadbare swoa'.ars. In v,orn 
blankcr-s and shabby co.ats. many of the pa- 
tients huddled silently in dim corners. 

A 60-5-e.ir-uId man named Monroe sat In 
the second fleer IT room watching the m^■>n 
landing. 

"Well, thri-e Ihe:' arc." he said, "vniat the 
hell are tiiey coing up there? What ^ood does 
It do for us? We need money for schools, 
far the pf>^r. for jilnrc* Ijke tiiis " 

llonroc ask.;.! me to flnd Morrl.^! '.yeintraub. 
the administrator, and tell him to turn up 
the heat. KL-i'i.her the p:''ients rior I knew 
at the tMne that the boiler hcid ruptured dur- 
ing the night. 

HSLriEbS ON FXOOP. 

"Teil him we're free7.ing. The heat ■:^'.'is oJf 
all last night. It could km some of these peo- 
ple." Monroe said. 

As 1 .-.uvioiLsIy searched for th-^ adnunls- 
Iralor. I heard au elderly a ->mc>,'-. rc^o-jnt her 
o.vn nighi; of agony as she lay helpless on a 
cold floor. She cctiaplained to a ccj.-^'panion: 

"Tlie window In my room slipped last 
nlfht and all ih.at cl'l .air w.is coming in. 
I pot up io ;.:rot It. b'Jt I si.pped ; nd fell 
and couldn't get up again. I c.-'ilM fcr a 
nurse, out one didn't cofne for the longest 
time. I do.i't know how long 1 was on that 



fljor." 

ITtcn ?:he brjke into c-^ijs: "Oh. C'.na, ■. h 
Ctd, r>h G-..d. I'm so sl-k oi It." 

uravccLE for dlauket 

In another rcoin. a woman accxised another 
of stealing her blanket. "It's my blr-nkct. you 
eUjIo it," she screeched. "No, it isut. I found 
It on the flocr." shouted Iho other. Tllcy 
£t.art<:d stnigghng for '-ha b!aj;;:ot. 

A mule's aide entered and mediated t!ie 
d'.i-.putc with curses and Ihrca'.s. 'Shut your 
damned nicuihs. b-?',h of you." .-.he shout.i'd. 
■ If you don't sl-.ut up Uils niinvit.;-, I'll t.-ike 



all your bl-iuUet.; away and you both can 
freeze!" 

The women kept yelllnj and 'ho ftiJs 
readied Into her pocket and brandished a 
drug-filled syringe. "Now you gonna shut up. 
or do 1 have to Jab you with this !" slie yelled. 
The women cowed, sobbing, "Yes. all right, 
yes." 

When I finally found Welntraub, he dis- 
missed the lack of heat as a problem that 
would be .solved later In the day and Iti- 
sistcd that I turn my attention to waxing the 
front hallway. His rirtual obsession with the 
appearance of tho front hallway stemmed 
from his fear of the City Health Department. 

"Forget the room.s." he told ma on nioro 
than one decision, "'nie ioi>by and [frDi...j 
hall arc the flrot thing the health depart- 
ment win see If they sl-.ow up." 

Later the same day. I saw a 90-year-oi(^ 
man suiTer the Indignity and pain of physlc.-.l 
punishm,-iit. administered by a young 
nurses a:< o Tue man was senile ar.ci enn- 
fincd to a wheelchair. 

As the aide was j.-laclng a slipper on his 
Infected ?.x>i. he accidentally brushed her 
uniform with his foot. 

KICKS HIM ON LEG 

Calling him a "no good bastard" she kicked 
him on the leg and punched him in tho 
Eiioulder. Ilie man cried out, and the aide 

barked, " you, you do that again and 

I'm gonna beat you." 

The aide did not str:p there. A short time 
later, after the man had involuntarily u.i- 
nated in his pauts, she called him a series 
of -.ile names, then left him to sit In his 
own waste. Another nurse's al;';e tlireatened 
to hold his pant leg out the window uutU 
It froze. 

Perhaps the one statement that best cv- 
presscs tlic attitude of the staff at Bencon 
Hill toward the elderly and mentally ill came 
during my final hours of employment. As I 
was about to leave one afternoon, the direc- 
tor of nursing made this observation: 

"I wish they'd Ji^-t get the.-e paticD!.s out 
of here. They're the most disgusting peoplo 
I've ever seen." 



DAIRY FARMERS FACE ROUGH 
TIMES 

Jlr. HUMPHREY. Mr. President, these 
have been ro'jgh limes lor America's 
dairj- farmer.s. 

Tiiey are gcins out or business al a 
rapid rate. 

And the Nixon administration .-Lcrnis 
content to sit idly by ^iiile tiic situation 
continues to get 'worse. 

First, th? Department of Agriculture 
rel'jsed to buy any clieese for tlie scliool 
lunch program during the first semester 
of the sciiool year, whicii begun last XaU. 
And it has p'jrcha.sed little or none ttiis 
semester. Yet tliis same Department esti- 
mates that some 80 million poiuids of 
cheese could be used for .«chool lunches 
during this fiscal year. 

Second, the Nixon administration 
v.'antcd to 'Kill the special milk r-rogi'am 
la.'Jt year. It took a Democratic Congress 
to restore it. And the President's budget 
d^cs not incl'jde ,iny recommendation for 
th:.'i year. 

Tiiird, the administration has failed 
this year to increase farm values of rnlli 
through adjustments In the price-sup- 
port program. 

Fourlli, the administration .stood by 
for a lyng period of time while daiiT 
iaimtrs were ha> med by imports broucliC 
into this country under evasions of the 
imiiort control prcgram. 



This is tJiO p;cLiire the Nixon admlnis- 
tr?.lion has presented to the dairy farn - 
er. It is not a r^rctty one. 

It is time tlmt tlie dairy farmer be 
given licli>— mid liope. 

I lijve contocted the Secretary of Agri- 
cidture and asked that the foUo-H'in^', 
steps be taken : 

First, befiin iir.mcdiote purciiases of 
cheese for tho jcliool hmcii program at i\ 
level suflicient to provide the real needs 
cf the program. 

Second, raise tlie price support on mil'K 
to 00 percent of parity, as autiiorized by 
tlie Con,gress. 

Tliird. hold down imports of dairy 
products to a level that will enable U.S. 
producers to r.iarket their products in a;; 
orderly manner. 

Finally, I inlond to submit a resolu- 
tion in the Senate to restore the special 
milk program, and to see that EUfTicient 
funds are provided to meet the needs of 
tliat program. 

As for our dairy farmers, one -way to 
make tlieir voices heard is to unite so tlie,'/ 
can set their goals and policies together. 
People in every .section of the economy 
have done tliis. And they have done it 
v/itli success. 

There are milk markciing organiza- • 
tions that care about the farm price of 
milk, and -which work on the national 
scene to protect the dairy farmer's in- 
terest. 

These organi:;atioiis deserve tlie sup- 
port of every dairy farmer. Their work, 
in milk mark-c-ts and in V.'ashington. 
oScrs the greatest single hope for a self- 
sufficicnt agriculture. 

LEAD EASf.'D PAINT POISONING 
PREVENTION 

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, on 
January 14. 1971. the Lead-Cased Paint 
Poisoning Prevention Act was signed into 
law. That was the first piece cf legislation 
specifically designed to provide Federal 
a.'isiitance for those 'wi'io suffer from 
cliiidhood lead poisoning. 

la.st year, in hearin.gs on that bill, 
Uealtii of;iciai.= testified that lead poison- 
ing is a sickness that can be completely 
avoided. But it has become one more 
liazard confronting the poor that has 
received too litt.'e attention. Since Icao 
poisoning in children -usually result.^ 
v.hcn ycungstr-rs v.ho live in diiapidated 
housing swallo'j small bits of pecliiVT 
paint and pla.=-ter from the valls most 
people are unaware of the liazards 
involved. 

Even a motiier who sees her child 
chewing paint chips may not kno-,v th.at 
her little one can be sickened and per- 
haps be killed by this poison from the 
v.alls. Shamefully, because mo.-t of thor" 
living in our big-city slums are black or 
Puerto Rir.Tn and most of tho victims are 
black and Puerto Rican. 

If this -wcio a disease of the suburb.;. 
Its toll wo'..!;d r.ot bo nearly so dreadful. 

Mr. Picsidcnt. I worked for approval 
of the Lead-Based Paint Poisoning Pre- 
vention Act because I want to end tiio 
needless suffering caused by this insidi • 
oius disease. As the ne-w chairman of tho 
iienate Health S'J.bcommJttce. I am firml.v 
and clearly bfhir.d all effori.-s to provide 



6714 



Nelson Exhibit No. 8 

LAv^ orri:-:E 

JiiL i:\-TZS 6<; 1I.-;.Tv>ijtsox 

sunt E c ;■ 
i/oi rr-N NSYi '.'/■; I •- / -. tnue:. K. w 
v/ASHirgcTotj. D c soooe 

TELEPHONT ?CJ Jns-D030 

T E I E X ■-. ^ C- :• 7 •-. ; " D K 

CABLE ' rr.EVLAW 

March' 19, 19 71 



liEJiorj'.'.iDu."'. TO Tin: hcxnIORAble ooiu-i c. \;!'.itaker 



Re: 8 5^ of Parity 
/>Fril 1, 19 7] 



Dairy Industry/ 



Goajl. The dairy ir.custry •.•.•anted the Secretary 
O-f Agri c-u] tr.re to 5:o;t p-arity at £5.05 per hu.-idreclv.-ei cht, 
•.■■;■ ich cqv.^ls 85'c of. parity, icr the year beainninq Anril 1, 
] ^' 7 1 . 

."?•■. .GG, v.-liich thfe!i eq-aallcc; & I. , i r. ::arch 197C, effective 
April 1, 1970. To continue C:'v of parity, it v.'o-ald bo 
I'locessary to set t:-,o collar price at $5.05 tc compensate 
for abort 6'.i inflation. The dairy iiidustry is. vigorously 
opposed to cutting the parity ratio and thus v.-ants parity, 
'-;ct ar .$5.05. 

■"-'ctitudi^ c ■- Pccrctr'!- -.• . By £tat\-ite the Secretary 

can sot : -ri'ty'at :' ;- y figure '^^Vich c-uaO s frcn 75^: tc ?C\. 
j.ast ye: • i^ocretary H; rdin favored 85^.; ?ud"Gt Director 
;Pyo ^.:;u ct! c:rs vrere orpos c:': , ^n the ground la \v"culd cast 
ioo rr.-uc;'. . S5':; v.-ar, out. This year the Secretary leaned 
strongly ^cainst 15$.. His reasoning '.vas that (1) continued 
cS'o parit\" '..•o'alc result in exccssi\'e production and (2) if 
need be for political reasons, parity could be raised back 
tc 8 5$ at a later date. 



-''a rch 12, 19 71 annou ncenent . On Karch 12 the 
Secretary ar; parity for the year begir;r.ing /.pril 1 again 
at ?;<.',r. , \.-hich nov." eguals only about CO 5 of parity. 0."-.D 
birector fichultz stronnly fa^.^orcd keeping $4.G6. The dairy 
i]-:dustry reaction l.ais been t-osc unfavorable. 



G715 



- 2 



Econon '.ic c onsid e rati 
question ar.d rsquires a pcliti 
revic'.v economic considerations 
there is no econc:rdc problo:?, . 
that total dairy product cons-u 
ing the tliird quarter 1S70 ove 
and increased 0.8S in the four 
fourth quarter 1969. USDA's f 
consumption drop:Ded in 1958 an 
ally turned around, rising' 0.4 
tention that rr.aintaining 8 5% c 
over production and decreased 
roneous by use of USDA's own f 
the i-ast seven years, USDA's f 
justed about six months after, 
justrient usually resulting in 
lov.-er production figures. Ken 
for the third and fourth quart 
actually tc be creater v:hen th 



ons . T}iis is a v 
cal ansDe/'. To n 
is dangoi'cur. . H 
USDA's cv.'n figur 
laption increased 
r the third quart 
th quarter 19.7 o 
igures shov- furth 
d 19 69 and then d 
v; in 1970. 'i'hub , 
f parity '.•.•ou3d re 
consurnpticn is pr 
igures. In <;ddit 
igu.res have had t 
their publication 
higher consumptio 
CG, the announced 
ors cf 1970 is vo 
nal ficrures a 



C 1 'I 


tical 


lore 


tl-^an 


:ov;c- 


ver , 


c s 


shov; 


l.G 


» dur- 


.er 


1959 


IV er 


the 


:tr 


that 


;rajv, 


,atic- 


til 


e ccn- 


■sul 


t in 


ovc 


-2 er- 


Jon 


, for 


o h 


e ad- 


:, t 


he ad- 


n a 


r.d . 


, in 


crease 


;ry 


likely 


re 


analyzed 



PoU 
ship has been 
tion ■;angibly 



tical ccnsideratio-.s 



'■11 n: 

agri 

good 

atte 

dyna 

(2) 

crea 

at $ 

1, 1 

or a 

is s 

Spea 

to s 

he o 

if h 

ally 

this 

unfo 



Dairy industry leader- 
very n-aterially as-sisting the fJixon .-.dninis tra- 
and intangibly. Tamers voutd Der.^ocratic m 

F.'-ra'f'inn v."as ber;inning to pro-iect a "'-,■'->- der-i ; :_V'.-. r<xc:- 
cuiture iraage. To reduce p;.rity nov is to unco tr.e 

••-.■h.ich was being done. To reduce parity nov.' ar.d then 
r.-.pt to increase it effective April 1, 1972 i?: political 
.nite because (1) the purpose v.-ould be transp: r-ar.t and 
the increa.se at that tJ-e '..ovld result in a rjrrce in- 
Ke to co!-isur.ers (which it '..-ould not if paritv ware set 
5.05 fcr April 1, 1971 and continued ---t SS.OL for April 
^'72} . I'he increase - if th:-re is L' i.e one - :-u5t co:.: , 
announced, within tiie next fev; weeks. There 
ocratic support on the Kill, appars.ritly led by 



t least be 
trcng Der.', 
ker Altera: 
andbag tlie 
pposes or 
e signs it 
, until lia 
Ad."ninistr 
rtunately , 



to legislate 85'^. This ray be an a-^tarr.pt 
President, I'uinin^j hiiti with dairy far.T-ers- i: 
vetoes the bill, giving the Deiriocrats credit 
or ad"inistrative] y raises parity. Ironic- 
rch 12, the dairy .industry h-i^s gotten from 
ation substantially what it '..•anted although., 
always after a vigorous effc^rt. 



Con^'} usic n. Tor political, if no ether, rc-asonr, 
ct at eS".;, even if Ikc Pre-::--: f : nt h;.a 
L creta. y ' ;■ , is on 



parity nus t a--;a.\n i 

to do it. The President':; nc;rae, not f< 

the ballot. 



(' ' 



•APHiFc:: 



6716 



Nelson Exhibit No. 9 

SHARON, PIERSON AND SEMMES 

CANAL SODATi' 

I05* THIRTY- r'iROT STt-^JCT. H W 

WASHINGTON, D. C. 20007 

(iOZ) 333-»000 

JOHN M EHABON CABI.E9 -SM 

W. DrVIER PIERSON 
THEODORE F T, CROLIUS 

WILLIAM T, riNLEY. jF. MarcliSO, 1971 

KNOX BEMIS 

PETER J LEVIN ■ _ 

SHELDON e. HOCHOERG - 

Mr. Robert O. Isham 

Trustee 

Trust for Agricultural Political Education 

P.O. Box 32287 

San Antonio, Texas 78216 ' 

Dear Bob: " ,. 

You have roquestc-d our opinion with respect to the legality 
of a loan by TAPE to another trust winch has as its purpose the 
making of political contributions. As I understand it, the loan would 
be on an accommodation basis and tiie bciTCvcr would rapay the loan 
in full v/itliin the next 130 day.-,. 

V/e are of the opin.'on that such a loan would be lawlu] . .Al- 
though TAPE has taken the status oi a political coinrnittee, t};e Corrupt 
Practices Act does not prohibit a loan to another political co.'j.niittee. 
However, the loan should be a bona fide transaction and evidenced by 
a promisory note reflecting the obligaUon for repayment. In addition, 
the boiTower will be required to report any expenditures for political 
purposes from the loan proceeds and you may wish to advise ther.i of 
this fact. . 

Such a loan does not appear to be reportable by TAPE as a poli- 
tical contribution since, although "expendiiurcs" under the Federal 
CoiTUpt Practices Act include loans or advances, the expenditures will 
not bo made by TAPE "for the purpose of influencing or attempting to 
influence the elcc:ion of candidates." Rather, the contributions will 
be made and reported by the borrowing irurt. This assumes that the 
funds are repaid to TAPE in accordance with the note. Cf course, any 
subsequent political contributions by TAPE with iho funds would be 
subject to the normal reporting requirements. 

PleasA advise if we can provide you with any additional 
information. 

,,_, Sincerely, 

RECEIVED APR ^V) .-.,-: f i.-,-—- 

W. DeVier Fierson 



'i^^ 



a 


Li 



V 



•3717 
Xr.i-soN Exhibit Xo. lu 

April 29, 1971 



Ij 1100 iiivoaiteentii ttroct, U. .V- 

'..'iihiivjton, 0. C. 20:->3(.. 



■^ , . - ■ " ■ I- 

Oecii- L'cVicr: • . 

i.iXli.:!., ;H-la:;o, Trustee Zor .".D-rT, has rr/nicstod 5nstruct-.ior.3 as to 
tiii; i-tportir.'7 ro-niire.nents .?,nplical-.lQ to tit-^ ;; ',0,000 locr, ■.-.Micii 

■.i'ill yoa plec-iso £>.dvis« hi.:., and. i^rovidc 'c %.'ith a copy oi' Vv. lotter. 



Vours truly. 



r.OI:v-i,> 

CC : 

!i. S. liclbon 

••.illiiia bclar.c 



^ol-ort O. T3>ir-'.i 
iiV'jL'-i-.yi: 



6718 

Nelson Exhibit No. 11 

FRO\, TME D:Si< CF ..... Jnne S. Wright 

Don ' V do anythLng v/ith tho follov.nng as there 
will pirobably bo a name change «.-^ vrill be 
back in touch in a day oi:^ cwo 

3 

6 • 

(9 - \ . ..■ • 

28 

38 

41 

42 

45 

51 

54 

58 

59 

64 

65 

66 

67 

75 

84 

85 

86 

90 

91 

97 

98 ^ 



Gllv 



\ s. 

\9. 
MO. 

^17. 

'^18. 

/19. 

. \2(). 

'^^' 21, 

'■^22. 
"■*« 23. 

"^24. 

"% 25. 
'■^ 26. 



OrgnniMtion of ■"'eJicated .Viiericc.'T' 

Leaiiue of Invojved Citizens. 

Association of .^ietropolitan Washington Residents for Sound Government. 

Association of Metropolitan Washington Residci>i.;-. for Ba];inceJ 
Transportation Gro'.vth. 

Conimittee for a T3etter Nation. ■ - • ' ' ' ' - ' 

/>.niericans United for Honorable End to !\'ar. • ■•• *- 

Association of /viioricans for llonorable Peace. 

Citizens for Soiuid Policies at Home aiid Abro;id, ■"■■•''- ' ' - 

Amciicans United for Sensible Agricultural Policy. ' .' : 

Citizens for a Fetler Lnviroiiniont. ' ■- ' '- -■ •' '-Vj. 

Americiins for Sound Ecological Policy. - • ■■ '^' •'' 

Coiiimittee for Better Government. '" ■ "' -' -' - '■:-•■■■ 

A'~sociation of i'olitical Activists, ■'•'- " ' ' '' 

Aiiiericans Dedic;ited to Pe.-.ce. 

Americans Dedicated to Better Public 'vdjninistrai. inji. 

Americans United for Bettei^ Leadershiji. ■ - 

Association of A;;\ericans for Good Gevji-nment . •--"' ■- ■' '" ^ ■ ' 

League for Concerted Action. - ■' . •'■ .'•■' 

/jncricans Unitet; for Econoiiiic Recovery. - ' "' ■ ' ""'■ • ' 

Association for fair Press. '■ ' - ' ' •' •■■ ' *' ' 

League of Dedicated Voters. ' • •■ ' - ' '- ■ 

Association of Political \': )]untecrs. ''''■ 

Coiinnttee for Cne'Uer Coiii", .n ity Inv;.ii\"!;-ment. ' "' ' ■■ - ' 

Org;;nization oi roiiirnunity Voiunteeis . ui.V .-', • . ■ J- 

Americans Dedi-;ated to Grc-iter Rihtie /xwareness . ■•'' '■' '''--'■'-"■■■■/' i' 

AjTicricans Unitv-d fcr Sound Consuricr Ivdicies. ■ ■ -i---i-.v-' 



6720 

*^27. -VTicricans United for Better Pederal Administration. 

X 28. D. C. League of /jiierican Volunteers. 

'^^ 29. Americans United for Objective Reported. 

'' 50. Association for Sensible Disarmament. 

X 31. Orga:iization of Moderate Americans 

'n,52. .\;;;oricans Organized for Political Stability. 

^ 33. Association of Neigliborhood \'olunteers. 

"^ 54. League of Citizen Activists. 

"^*35. Citizens for Better Government. 

"'>" 36. A:-;ericans United for Honesty in Government. 

'^ 37. Coiuitittee for I'olitical Integrity. 

V 38. .AiTi.-'ricans Dedicated to Peace in the World. 

'^ 39. A'nericans Dedicated to Stable Growth. 

'■•* 4(1. Americans Dedicated to a Clean Environment. 

•' 41. League of ;'\mericans for Peace with Honor. 

.■'- 42. Association for an Adequate National Defense. 

***■ 43. Americans United for Political Ntoderation. 

^"^ 44. Americans United for Sensible Politics. 

y 45. U. C. Committee for Effective Goverruiient . 

"•■^ 46. .Association for Representative Government. 

^ 47. Anericans United for Responsive Administration. 

"^ 48. Organization of Responsible Americans . 

'"^49. Organization of Sensible Citizens. 

50. Anericans for Sound Educational Policies. 

i- 51. .Association of Metropolitan Washington Residents for Better Communities. 

'^^^^ 52. A'nericans Concerned. 



■\ 

\ S3. Fr;-)on?r,s of Roi i -jr.al Federal Rooi.uTnization. '• 

■/• 5-1. n. C. Cori;nitl:et um a St;.b!o l;coiKimy. 

55. SouikI Politics AL-si-ciatio i, 

56. Coimaittec lor Adequate Political fntormation, 

"''*57. Oi-gar.i/:ation of Citizen Politicians. ' • 

"f- 58. Association for Peace in the Middle liast. 

r 59. Association for Peace Thiuugli Strength. 

^ 60. Americans United for Sound CovernmcTit. 

"^^61. Aiiioricans United for Econoaiy in Govenment. 

"^62. Americans Unite i lor Ecoi:o;iuc StabiJity. 

o3. .A.;-:i it'.ani llnitrJ i,,r a La-wM.l Society, - 

/• 64. Friends of Middle East Stability. 

■/> 65. Coinriiittee for Soiuvl Policy in Southeast Asia. 

/■ 66. Co-nimittee for Ir.telligent 'Vithdrciwal in South.- -t Asia. 

V"- 67. Association for Son. id U.S. Involvemtnt in Euroi'io. 

T^^S. Ariericans United for Decent Government. 

^69. Association for Concerned 'Citizens. ■ 

"^^ 70. A'lmricans United loi' an Iriionned t:it:v '.orate. 

""^yi. The Organization of Involved .'^jner icnns. 

^"'72. .%erica3is United for Political A\varoii .-ss. 

"^73. Americans United ior Political Involvement. 

^"'•74. Araericans Participating. 

V 7S. League of Concerned Conservatives. 

"•/G. /vmericans United for a Mori! Society. 

'''•■7?. Americans Org.ini7.';-d for Action. 

''"^78. ArierJcnns Organ: z'.-.l for Cm izcn Acliviiy. 



6722 

''-79. /'Jiicric-Ln Asso^viat i jn for CiV.i;-c)i I'artjc ipation. 

. "\S0. .-V.iericans Organized 'v Freso ve Good (^cntiT.r.icnt. 

"^^•81. Ajncricans Organiz'.d for Sour:J 1 i.scal Po]icy. 

"'"82. Ainericiais United for Sound ?'!onoy. ' 

V,83. /TOcricans Pcdlcated i-j Sound JfoiioniJc ("rov.th. 

'/. 84. Association for So'jj.i U.S. 1 (jj icy in .Asia. ; 

.' S5. n. C. Coiiiir.i t tee of i -- Jicerncd /.^iglibor?. 

■.' SO. 1). C. '.'oluritecri. 

^v 87. .AMcricaiis IVorking ic mild a Jvtter (A'*i:;;;:iity. 

"■'^ 88. .'ji'.ericans United for J'ctter J ...!:■ ral ri;;!;;ing. 

'"' 89. Association for Ik-r-. ).ffccti'\ Icderal Action. 

'■ 9(J. D. C. Citizens fo]' (>r::minity ijj\olv'en:cn.t . ■! 

V 91. I). C. Stable Goveu:. it Society. 

''^92. Association for Pii.:. .•ratio;) -.f Ba.sic A..,.rican Ideals. 

'*^93. .'Vssociation for Pre: '. j-vatio, r f Sour.d fuitical Ideals. 

'•'■94. Cor.iiaittee for a Bel . i j\meriL,j. 

^■'^95. Supporters of the A.i.vrican Dieam. 

"*^'*96. A'Tiericans Involved. '■ . ■ 

y 97. Association for Prc;r;j'(.ssive Ixdicy i]i Latin Aiiierica. 

/ 98. ;\jnericans United for i eace ii; the Cariileaii. 

*"'■* 99. .\ssociation of In\Cij',id VoIu.mic ers. 

''^lOO. Ap.iericans for the pjesei-vatiLJi of a Decent Society. 

^■4 101. The League of Mature Auericans. 



672:'. 



Nelson Exhibit No. 12 

LAW OFnc^^o 

Hkf.n ics & Ilahkiso.v 

SUITC --CO 
170r rE'NN -YLVANi'\ A\f,NUE.N vV 

WASHINGTON. D C SOOOG 

TCttPl^ONE 2C.7 L'OM t-030 

T£l(:x •'•■JO--7G Cf?DK 

CABLE' Rr.eVLA.V 

Juua 29, 1971 



Harold S, Nelson, Esq. 

General Manager 

Associated Milk Producsi-s, Inc. 

GPM Building, Fourth Floor - 

San Antonio, Taxas 78216 

Re: Co ntrib'j . i- ions 

Dear Harold: 

Do yovj think Rob Isharn or somebody can move 
fairly fast en cl'.o 25 checks discussed in my letter to 
you of June 16? The people on the other side of the 
fence took fcrcvcr and a day to get us the addresses 
of the conmittecs but inasmuch as we have had the nar'.e.s 
of the coirjiiittees for several months, it might be good 
politics to move fast. 

VJe enclose a list of 2 4 more coinmittees , in 
the same format a.-3 the original 25. All 24 are from 
the list I originally gave you. In sequence, beginning 
with the first page, the committees as they correspond 
to that list are h^20 , 26, 29, 34, 35, 36, 37, 39, 40, 
43, 44, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 53, 54, 56, 57, 60, 61 
and 62. 

If it would delay getting in t)ie original 2 5 
to add these 24, I would suggest we move on the original 
25 forrh^'ith end then take up these 24 I'.ii'pdue course. 




MA i^TO??^ I /, V\ N HARRI S ON 



I-IEH : ek 
Enclosu; 



6724 



Association for Fair P ress 

Chairman: Muriel Quinones 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Was]iington, D. C. 

Treasurer: VJilliam L. Ritchie 

Union Trust Building 
15th and II Streets, N.W. 
VJashington, D. C. 



Association of Political Volunteers 
Chairman: Harold Smith 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Wasi-iington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Eleai~,or P. Ritchie 

Unioi'i Trust Building 
15th and H S treetF , " N . W. 
Washington, J. . C. 



Americans United for Sound 



ij'isumer Policies 



Chairman: Ralpl^. E. 11. -.cs 

Union Trust Building 
15th and II Streets, N.W. 
Wash i ngton , i? . C . 



Treasurer: 


Lo\: 


.so L. i 


. -chie 






Uni. 


.n Trur-l 


Buildi.^' 






15tl 


1 and H 


' treets , 


N.W 




Wasl 


'ling ton, 


D . C . 




TUTiOricans United 


fo.: 


' 'O j ect :. 


■; Rcpo:--; 


.ing 


Chairman: 


Lin 


iTi Barrn 


.ll 






Uni- 


y:\ Tru; - 


:Juild:nc 


' 




15t! 


. and i: 


' '.reets , 


:; . w 




Was' 


ling ton. 


:•. C. 




Treasurer: 


Pav- 


. L. 0'. 


. len 





U n 1 o n T r u .s t i! u i 1 d i Vi r, 
15th and I; S.treets, N'.W. 
Was*\i ngton, D . C. 



6725 



League of Citizen Acti vis ts __^ 

Chairman: v.'illiair. Louden "l^ ,:^o^ 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N'.V7, 
VTashir.gLon, D, C. 

Treasurer: Arthuz A. Binv-y 

Union Trust Hi. ilding 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



;iti^:e r. s for !5cv .t:. -r Gov e r nine at 
Chciirinan: :i. L. vs.- then 

'.'nion Trust Ba.iding 
15th and H Sic-Ots, M.W. 
V.'.ishington, :■. C. 

Treasurer: '•■"'illiar,: J. !;■.. Lier, Jr. 
Union Jrust f . : Iding 
]. 5 th ; • : d H P c r ^:- e ts , M' . W . 
\.'ashir. :. ton, i). C. 



Aiiiori can. s United for Honest y in^ Govern ui mt 

Ci'iairruan: Bill Emerson 

Union Trust Bi;ilding 
15th ar.J H S v-. ^!ets , N,W. 
Washington, .''. C. 

Treasurer: W. Fr.:-ink Stickle, Jr, 
Union Irust :-u ilding 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Vt' a s h i i i g to n , D . C . 



Committee for Po 1 i tical I nteg fi ty 

Ciiaxrinan: iierma;i F. Scr.earer, Jr. 
Union Trust r.vi ilding 
15th a -1 d H St. i: c e t s , f-i . vl . 
Aashia j ton, i^ . C. 

Treasurer: Robert Lee (">'i":ien 

Union Jrust '''lilding 
15th and H Jr-iets, N.W. 
Vv a s h i :\ g con, , C . 



a/ 



6726 



- 3 - 



America :is Dcdicat o d to Stable Grov .-th 
Chairman: Paul Wagner 

Union Trust Building 
15th and U Streets, N.W. 
VJashington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Bradford M. Patterson 
Union Trust Building 
15th and li Streets, N.W. 
VJashington, D. C. 



Americans Dedicate d to Cl ea n En v ironment 
Chairman: Harold Rivera 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
VJashington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Robert K. Stuart 

U)iion Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.V;. 
VJashington, D. C. 



Air.erica n United f c r Politi c al Mo oe ration 
Chairman: Eorothy i^. Hunt 

Union Trust Building 
15th and }] Streets, N.W. 
Washingtoii, D. C. 

Treasurer: Foster v; . Terrell 

Uiiion Tr^?t Building 
IS-ch and V. Streets, N.W. 
V^ashingto!'!, D. C. 



Americans United for Sensible Politics '''^ .'1' '/ 
Chairman: Martin Sorkin 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Jonathan H. Laslay 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



6727 



Association for Rcpro scntativc Govornricn t 
Chairiiian: Sally Sorkin 

Union Trust Building 
15th and II Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Annette G. Las lay ■•: 
Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.VJ. 
Washington, D. C. 



Americans United for Responsive Administration 

Chairman: Jay Classman -' -■ '/ 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. • 
V'Jashington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Betty Bruce Bov;ersock 
Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



Organization of Responsible Americans 
Chairman: Rose F. Kobylinski 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Jack D. Neal, Jr. 

Union Trust Company 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



Organization of Sensible Citizens 

Chairman: Elizabeth Mitchell 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D, C. 

Treasurer: Claudia H. Neal 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W, 
Washington, D. C. 



:; J 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 23 



6728 



Americans for Sou nd Educ a tior.^il Policies 
Chairman: G. Morgan 

Union Trust Building 
15th and II Streets, N.v;. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Everett E. Rovercomb 
Union Trust Building 
. 15th and H Streets, N.W. 
; Washington, D. C. 



Americans Concerned 

Chairman: Edward L. NcQueon 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
VJashington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Lynda J. Revercomb 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



y'r 



Supporters of Rational Federal Reorganization 
Chairman: J. R. Locher 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: William K. Scott 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



Sound Politics Association 

Chairman: Jo Ella McQueen 

Union Trust Building 
15th and II Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Elfriede L. Scott 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



^'0:7^ 



■ M 



6729 



- 6 



Corrunittee for Ad e q uate Politica l In formation 
Chairman: Vincent Pepper 

Union Trust Building 
15th and II Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: F. E. Walter 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D, C. 



Organization of Citizen Politicians 
Chairman: Shirlene Glassman 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Julia M. V\'alter 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
VJashington, D. C. 



Americans United for Sound Government 
Chairman: Michael X. Dolan 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Hester A. Naylor 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



Americans United for Economy in Government 
Chairman: Edward Dingevan 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Philip K. Watts 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



Americans United for Economic Stability 'fy '>/''_, 
Chairman:' Robert F, Bennett 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Margaret T. Booth 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



6730 



Nelson ExraeiT No. 13 



JUOV R. POTTCn 



LAW orricES 

Reeves & Harrison 

SUITE SOO 

170I PrNNSrVVANIA AVCNUE, N. W. 

WASHINGTON, D. C. 20006 

TELEPHONE 202 29a-9030 

telex a4o370 cwok 
cable"reevlaw" 



July 8, 1971 



Kr. Robert O. Isham, Trustee 
The Trust for Agricultural 

Political Education 
Box 32287 
San Antonio, Texas 78216 

-u 

Dear Mr. Isham: 



We are of the professional opinion that the 
committees named in the attached lists are bona fide 
political committees now complying with applicable state 
and federal statutes and regulations. 

We have reviewed that certain Trust Agreement 
dated February 2, 1969, which establishes the Trust for 
Agricultural Political Education (hereinafter, "t;-J>E"). 
Ke opine that any contributions by TAPE to the cor-.it- 
toes named in the attached lists would be in accordance 
with the requirements and purposes outlined in said 
Trust Agreement. 

We are assured that disbursements from each 
of the listed committees to any other entity will be 
Blade solely for the purpose of re-electing the President 
and will be in sums at least equal to the contributions 
received from TAPE. 




^-^^^xy^j-^C'-t^i 



MARION EDWYN HARRISON 



n 



^JEH : ek 
Enclosures 



r.EcavBDJ"^-^^ 



m- 



6731 



■.■3 



League of Dodicat o- a Voters : 

Qiairinan: ;;rs . Inga Vi.rr 

2148 Georgian Woods Place 
Silver Spring, Maryland 

Treasurer: Kenneth A. Willia^-ns 
Union Trust Building 
Washington, D.C. 



Association of Political Volunteers; 






Ar-. eric.'.ns Dedicated to P - ' ■ '^r Public AcL-ninistrati 
Oiai nnan: Kobort ' ■ c 

1000 Co. :ticut Avenue, N.V;. 
Washinyt.n, D.C. 

Treasurer: Vera I den 

Union Trust building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washiiigton, D.C. ■ 



Association <5f /-jnoricarirj for Good Govern-Tient : ^ <7 ry 

Chairriari: Leonard J. Bonner ' 

1420 Nov/ York Avenue 
V;ashington, D.C. 20005 

Treasurer: Rosemary Hutchinson ' ' 

Union Trust Building 
15th and n Streets, N.W.- 
Washington, D.C. 



League for Concerted Action : , . ,-, ,^ 

ChairTTioJ-i : Xaurice S. V.'il lianas "' ■' ' ■ -" ' ■ .; ' "^ sJ^ 

2104 Orchard Place 
Landover, ;;i.ryland 20795 

Treasurer: J. D. Bowersock ' ' ' ' . - 

Union Trust I-uilding 
15th and V. Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D.C. 



<^-7y^ 



Ciairrfian: Jiaroid Smith /■/ 

1420 X^eii York Avenue 
Washington, D.C. 20005 

Treasurer: August Zinsser 

Union Trust 3uilding 
15ih cu-.d H Streets, KW 
Washington, D.C. 



6732 



- 2 - 



nT an i = -'.tior. of Co.-.r.\unit:y Voluntircrs : 
Chaii"man: ."■'.is . Krcdric To.vcr 

8033 Ilorb Fai-n Drive 
Bethesda, Maryland 20030 



4^^^ 



Trccisurer: Paul M. Garden 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, NW 
Washington, D.C. 



A-Tcricans Dedicatod to Greater Public Awareness i 
Chainr.an: John M. Quick 

10134 Little Pond Drive 
Gaithersburg , Maryland 20760 



<^i^-7 



Treasurer: Wilbur Biggs 

Union Tr\ist Building 
15th and H Streets, NW 
Washington, D.C. 



Ar.ericans United for Better Federal Adninistration ; 
ChairTTian: I'.rs . John '■;. Quick 

10134 Little Pond Drive 
Gciithersburg, Maryland 20760 






Treasurer: Ridiard Barrett 

Union Trust Building 
15th and U Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D.C. 



Association for Sensible Disarma-rient ; 
Cheu-rman: Kathoryn Beck 

6609 Hillendale Road 

Chevy Chase, Mciryland 20015 



¥9/ 



Treasurer: Jar.ies Shank 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, NW 
Washington, D.C. 



Orgar.ization of 
Ciairman! 



'•'odo r r.tc 7~.e ri cans : 
Y.x . John Packard 
IBIO 14th Street, N.W. 
Washington, D.C. 



^-^'J C) 



Treasurer: Stephen D. Kozna 

Unicn Trust Building 
15th £inu H Streets, N'W 
Washington, D.C. 



6733 



- 3 



A.-;\c rica ns Orc.'.nizod for I'olitic.il Strihility 
Chairman: IV. Carter Uowlcs 

10100 ncntcroiis Drive 
Potor.unc, Maryiai^d 20854 



^■\'^/ 



Treasurer: Gordon Silcox 

Union Trust Building 
IStJi and H Streets, NW 
Washington, D.C. 



Association of Neighborhood Volunteers ; 
Chair.r.an: Maston M. Jacks 

1451 Aldenham Lane 
Reston, Virginia 22070 



<r<o.':y 



Treasurer: Jackson Ritchie 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, NW 
Washington, D.C. 



Citizens for ".ore Effective Con'.nMnity Involverr.ent ; 
Chair;aan: John L. Kilcullen 

1250 Connecticut Avenue, t<»W 
Washington, D.C. 



r^i- 



Treasurer: J. G. Addison 

. Union Trust Building 
15th and K Streets, NW 
Washington, D.C. 



A.Ttericans Dacicated to Su j -iport of Der.ocracy ; 
ChairiT..\n: Jerome Powell 

1250 Connecticut Avenue 
\. Washington, D.C. 



-^^o.y^ 



Treasurer: Suscin Xuhn 

Union Trust Building 
15th ar.d H Streets, NW 
Washir.gton, D.C. 



6734 



- 4 - 



Ora ani::ation of 



Dodic.il.od AiriQv icaiis : 
David L. ■ ••• 

1420 New Avenue 

Washingtc- .C. 



-^-^^'i 



Treasurer: Harriet Aim Pals 

Union Tru.it Uuilding 
IStli and II Streets, NW 
Washington, D.C. 



League of Involved Citizens : 

Qiairraan: Jordan S. Himelfarb 
1420 New York Avenue 
Washington, D.C. 



r^^ 



Treasurer: Clifford C.Caslow 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, NW 
VJashington, D.C. 



CoTiCTJttee for a Better Nation : 

Chairman: Sarapson P. Holland 
■ ■ 1809 Varnu.-n Street, N,W. 

Wcishington, D.C. 



<rdy 



Treasurer: Brainard W. VJarner III 
Union Trust Quilding 
15th and if Streets, NW 
Washington, D.C. 



Citizens for i^oxind Policies at Home and M)rop.d i 
Chairman: Harold Loure 

Wood\>;ard Building 
Washington, D.C. 

Treasurer: Beedy T. Ritchie 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, NW 
,. Washington, D.C. 



"f^^ 



' toericans Urdted for Sensible Agricultural Policy t 

ChciiKnan: Calvin D. Johnson 
. ■ 2121 v;isconsin Avenue, NVJ 

. Washington, D.C. 20007 



-i-'o f 



Treasurer: Xilcred J. Warner 

Union Trust Building 
15th -i-id H St-.cets, 2W 
Washington, D.C. 



6735 



- 5 - 



r^-ri.-.cns fo r a Bettor En v ronmcnt : ^— ^ ^ 

Chaii-on: Lcward '.'cggans 

250-1 Sou. Dakota Avenue, N.E. 

Washingt. . , D.C. ■ . ' • 

Treasurer: James M. linynes , Jr. 

Union Trust Building ' . . ' 

15th and H Streets, N.W. ■■ ' 

Washington, D.C. 



A.T\ ericans for Sound Ecological Policy ; .- • P // 

Chairr:\an: V.'alter C. Barber 

1000 Connecticut Avenue, N.W. ■.; , • ; • ' 

Washington, D.C. . -^ •■ ' 

Treasurer; Thomas L. Anglin . j ' -(f , 

Union Trust Building ... , ; . . 

15th and H Streets, N.W. , ; .- - , ■ , .... 
Washington, D.C. ^ .. ...... ..-,, . .'..■ ■ ■' 



Conmitteo for Batter Governir.Gnt : , '_ ^ / 

Chairman: Peter R. Taylor • .. 

108 ya.rriOsa Lone - ■■ ■ 

Silver Spring, Harylxnd 20904 ' " ■• . 

Treasurer: James M. Johnston, III 
Union Trust Building 
, 15th and !> Streets, N.W. ■;■-■■ ,' '-^ , ":'-■'- 
Washington, D.C. 



Assoc^^^tion of Political Activists : 
Chairmari: Cnarles G. Eotsford 
1730 M Street, N.W. 
V.'ashington, D.C. 20036 

Treasurer: Irma ;<. Orpin 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
VJashington, D.C. 



Ariericans D::cicateQ to Peace : 

Chair^naxi: Rose M. Eotsford 

1730 M Street, N.W. 
• • Washington, D.C. ' ' ' ■ 

Treasurer: Juliaj\ Gillespie ,; 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
V7ashington, D.C. 



fl.T, ericans United for Better Leader - ' '-i; 
Chaiman: Ozra Y. Foggajis 

128 Kennedy Strc. ' N.W, 
Washington, D.C. i^CiOll 

Treasurer: John W. Maxwell 

Union Trust Building 
■ _ 15th and H Streets, N.W. 

Washington, D.C. 



"S^y 



'T/.y 



ir/5— 



^ 



'/<^ 



6736 



Assoc! atiion for Fa ir Press 

Chairman: Muriel Quinoncs 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: William L. Ritchie 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Associa t ion of Political Volunteers "^ ^ '~7 

Chairman: Harold Smith 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Eleanor P. Ritchie 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



Arnericans United for Sound Consumer Policies '^5'^/ 'p 
Chairman: Ralph E. Hawes 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Louise L. Ritchie 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Ampricans United for Objective Reporting ''? ^ ^? 
Chairman: Linda Barnhill 

Union Trust Building 
15th and II Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Paul L. O'Brien 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



6737 



- 2 - 

League of Citizen /acti v ists -^ ^ O 

Chairman: William Louden . ,.. ,. , 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.V7. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Arthur A. Birney ". . • (^ • ^ 
Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
■ '■■ ■ Washington, D. C. 



Citizens for Better Government if^JS- / 

Chairman: H. L. Kathen 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. • - . , 

Treasurer: William J. Butler, Jr. i;. ••. ^ 
Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



^""-^ .-^ 



Americans United for Honesty in Government 
Chairman: Bill Emerson 

Union Trust Building 
15th and K Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: W. Frank Stickle, Jr. 
Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. .<, . 



Committee for Political Integrity ^ ^-1- ^■■ 

Chairman: Herman F. Scheurer, Jr. ;,; •-• 
Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Robert Lee O'Brien . - ._ .n;^ • •. --• 
Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



6738 



- 3 - 

Americans Dedicated to Stable Growth t5^«^ r 

Chairman: Paul Wagner ■ / 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
V;ashington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Bradford M. Patterson -' - ' 
Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Americans Dedicated to Clean Environment ^ ,^2. -^j 
Chairman: Harold Rivera 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Robert K. Stuart 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

American United for Political Moderation ^ r -^ iA 

Chairman: Dorothy L. Hunt 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Foster W. Terrell ~ -^ 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D, C. 



Americans United for Sensible Politics 
Chairman: Martin Sorkin 

Union Trust Building 
15th and II Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D, C. 

Treasurer: Jonathan H. Laslay 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
V7ashington, D. C. — 



'■•'7 



6739 



- 4 



Association for Rep rGsentr.t ivc Government •^'^,^ f^ 

Chairnu-in: Sally Sorkin '" .. 

Union Trust Ruilding 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Annette G. Laslay ■; ;■ >.:•,£.--■/:• 
Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.v;. 
Washington, D. C. 

Americans United for Responsive Administration -^ c^ ^/ 
Chairman: Jay Classman 

Union Trust Building 
15th and 11 Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Betty Bruce Bov.'ersock j ■ - ■.::.■ 
Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Organization of Responsible Americans - .? C- C^ 
Chairman: Rose F. Kobylinski . • 
Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Jack D, Neal, Jr. " • :,.:;*; r 
Union Trust Company 
15th and II Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



Organization of Sensible Citizens 

Chairman: Elizabeth Mitchell 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
' Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Claudia H. Neal . •-,- 
Union Trust Building 
.. .. 15th and H Streets, N.W, 
Washington, D. C. 



<ro7 



6740 



- 5 - 



Americans for Sound Educational Policies 
Chairman: G. ."'.organ 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.V7. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Everett E. Revercomb 
Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



Americans Concerned 

Chairman: Edward L. McQueen -i- "^ ^^ 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
V7ashington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Lynda J. Revercomb ^. . :. r. 
Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Supporters of Rational Federal Reorganization ^ .'^> /j 
Chairman: J. R. Locher *' ^'^r 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



T^ ^.. 



Treasurer: V7illiam K. Scott 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Wasliington, D. C. 



Sound Politics Association _ .. __ ^ ^„ 

Chairman: Jo Dlla KcQueen "^ Z^ :■> 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Elfriede L. Scott .:.;?:. -v2l 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



6741 



- 6 



Committee for- Adequate Political Information 
Chairman: Vincent Pepper 

Union Trust Building 
. . 15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: F. E. Walter 

Union Trust Building 
. . 15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



^ / 



Organization of Citizen Politicians 
Chairman: Shirlene Glassman 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Julia M. VJalter 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
VJashington, D. C. 



<3 



7 



Americans United for Sound Government 
Chairman: Michael X. Dolan 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Hester A. Naylor 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W, 
■ Washington, D, C. 



■r-6^ 



Americans United for Economy in Government 
Chairman: Edu'ard Dingevan 

Union Trust Building 
15th and 11 Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

•■' Treasurer: Philip H, V'Jatts 

Union Trust Building 
15th and K Streets, N.W. 
Washington, D. C. 



a? ::>' y 



Americans United for Economic Stability 
Chairman: Robert F. Bennett 

Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
-■- -^ V7ashington, D. C. 

Treasurer: Margaret T. Booth 

Union Trust Building 
. . 15th and H Streets, N.W. 
- ; Washington, D. G. 



^^<^ 



6742 
Nelson Exhibit No. 14 

Octo'jor -1, 1Q71 



Mr. "Sarion K. Harrison 

Reeves & UarriKon Law offices ■■ -' : '-- 

SuitG 500 

1701 Pennsylvania Avenue N. K. 

Wasain'jton, D. C. 2000& - 

Dear vlarion: 

Enclosed are coiiies of corre.'jpondence froia W. Pat Jennings, Clerk, 
U. S. House of ':<-:nrGScntatives rcjardin'j our contribution to 
Americans Organii-ed for Political Stability. I a;a also enclo:iin>j 
a copy of the canco^ilcd check paid t.o t;ii;; cor.wittcc and a co>.y 
of our receipt. '.vill you i"l»;aae advir.e ne i;v>i-ncu lately ass to vj'nat 
action T.A.l'.iS. should take in this '.iiatter. 

\ . >- ■ Yours truly. 



Robert 0. I 3 ham 
Trustee 



ROI :vp 
(Enclonures) 

CC: 

H. S. Kelson 
D. A. Lilly 
Dave Parr 



6743 



Covington £. Burling 

OOa SlXTCCNTH STPEfT. u w ' 

WASHINGTON D C ^oO'^o 



Septer.bor 27, 1971 



The Honorable W. Pat Jtii)iings .,,,.' 

Clerk of the House of : •■ . ,• ■■ • 

Ro'presentutlvas ■ ■> , 

Washington, D.C. 20I315 

Re: Americans Or^a-nized for 
Polit ical Str.bil lty 

Dear Mr. Jennlnf^s: 

Accordirs to o. storj' "^n the firi^t pSf^e cf th' s 
morning's V.'ashirsTton^ Post, v, politicr.l cor'T-ictee jr.titied 
/jnericans '0.i't.vjinr?.ftTi /or Political Stability has reports i 
receivin,'; fron Tne Trust for Agricultural Politic?,! Zduca- 
tion, oa.n Antonio, Texas, a cciiicribucicn of c2,5-- se\iz ~o 
10100 DentcroRS Drive, Potomac, Maryland, r.y hcr.s addrer-3. 

No contribution, check or other form of money 
lias ever been received from or on behalf of any person cr 
organization by any member of roy household or me for or en 
behalf of Americans Organized for Political Stability. Tne 
use of ray address by said coioinittee is \,'holly un'-uthorized. 

Lot your records indicat'e ohac i^o n'j..;0_i cf r.y 
household nor I is a founder, risnbor, o-.ficer, •:.. "icyee r.or 
is in any v;ay associateiii \rith Americans Or.^aiTizeu for 
Political Stability. I'o member of r^y household r.or I >-r.c>.- 
or Imow of any person? v,'ho are associated •,;ith said ccrr.T.it- 
tee in any v;ay. 

Resp^ctf- lly ?\-b::d.tt3.~ , 
W. Carter Bcwles, Jr. / 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 24 



6744 



^l./i.>. iiiHisp of 3.lrprrc.nit<'ittuf3 

V;!.!v.l.iiirtmi, '0.'£. 211315 



September 28. 1971 



Mr. W. Carter Bowlos, Jr. 
Covinj'.ton *« Burl.ins; 
888 Sixtecnlii Street, N.W 
WoshiiigCon, D. C. 2uuO(i 

Dear Mr. i3owles: 



This is to acknowledge receipt of your lettir of 
September 27, 1971, concerning an alleged contribution of 
$2500.00 r.'.ade by The Trust for Agricultural Political 
Education, San Aiitonio, Texas, to .Vnerican ' s Organized for 
Political Stability. 

Your letter has been rr.adc part of the file of The 
Trust lor A[;ricul tural Political l^ducation available ior 
public inspection. 



With kindest regards, 1 ani 



Sincerely , 






r. 



--:,;-:vNiKGS, />^cTk 

n/use of RcL.resentativqs 



JD. $Iat 3rimiiig« 
Cbrk 



^^CBVEO' 



6745 



©ffite of tl{c Ollcrh 
^^. ^^ousc of Jlcprcseutathics 

JUnssliingtou, Jl.C. 20515 
September 28, 1971 



Mr. Robert O. Isham "' ' ; 

Treasurer and Trustee 

The Trust for Agricultural I,' - 

Political Education 
Post Office Box 32287 ^ 

San Antonio, Texas 78284 

Dear Mr. Isham: 

This is to advise you that on this date the Clerk 
received the attached letter from Mr. W. Carter Bowles, 
Jr., dated September 27, 1971, concerning an allegation 
against The Trust for Agricultural Political Education, 
and it has been made part of the file available for 
public inspection. 

For your information I am also attaching a copy of 
the Clerk's letter acknowledging receipt to Mr. Bowles 
also of this date. 

With kindest regards, I am 

Sincerely yours, 

W. PA^i^^NNINGSy CTErk 

U. S'5^^iouse of Representatives 

Attachments 



<Dffirf of tfjf Clfrh 

Jbousc of 2Acprtecnta(il)c« 

aUiHiiiglm, D.C. 1'05I5 




cunc uj. Houx or kpcesintativu 



t/s'8<r&^ 



Mr. Robert O. Isham 

Treasurer and Trustee 

The Trust for Agricultural 

Political Education 
Post Office Box 32287 
San Antonio, Texas 78284 



6746 



Rf;CEIPT 
TRUST FOR AGRICULTURAL POLITICAL EDUCATION 

As Treasurer of Americans Organized for Political Stability 
I acknowledge receipt of check number ^0^ in the amount of $2, 500 .00 

and dated "^^^y ^ , 19 ^^ The funds represented by this check 

will be used for no other purpose than to support candidates for Federal 
offices. 



I also certify that Americans Organized for Political Stability 
is a bona fide political committee operating in compliance with all 
applicable state and federal statutes and regulations. 



/-/f-7/ 



Americans Organized for Political St5 



Conimittee 



-pr-'^.^- (-^ -^ w-c — 



Treasurer 




UNION TRUST C OMPANY 
AddreaiT the district of cclui/sia 



6747 



MTRO 


N SOLTEO 


CMAB 


LES EMM 


JUOT 


R. POTTE 



LAW OFFICES 

Reeves & ILvrriso^^ 

SUITE SOO 
I701 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE N W 

WASHINGTON. D. C 20006 

TELEPHONE 202 298-9030 

TELEX -tA0376 CROK 

CABLE "REEVLAW 



c 



(1^ 



RRAY M C-OTCI 



November 24, 1971 



Mr. Robert O. Isham, Trustee 

Trust for Agricultural Political Education 

P. O. Box 32287 

San Antonio, Texas 78216 



Dear- 



The enclosed photocopies of letters dated 
November 5 and 15 solve the problem about which you 
wrote me on October 18, 1971. 





MEH:ek 

Enclosures 



6748 



Novonber 5,. 1971 



The Honorable W. Pat Jennings 

Clerk 

House of Representatives, U. S. 

Washington, D. C. 20515 

Dear Mr. Jennings: 

I have received a copy of your correspondence relating to 
the Organization of Cormunity Volunteers. 

On August 19, 1971, the Organization of Commuiiity Volunteers, 
15th and H Streets, N.W., VJashington, D. C, received a contribution of 
$2,500.00 from the Trust for Agricultural Political Education. As 
Treasurer of the Organization of ComiTiunity Volunteers I deposited this 
contribution to its account. 



The Chairman of the Organization of Community^Vol'jnteers is 
William Emerson. 




Union Trust Building 
15th and H Streets, N.W. 
VJashington, D. C. 




PAUL M. GARDEN, Treasurer 
Organization of Community 
Volunteers 



^^CA 



i^SOti 



^^2 9 



J9?) 



6749 



/ 



Union Trust Buildjnq 
15th and 1! Streets /n.W. 
Washington, D. C. 

November 15, 1971 



\; 



Mr. W. Pat Jennings, Clerk 

U. S. House of Representatives 

Washington, D. C. 20515 



Dear Mr. Jennings: 



I am the successor treasurer for the committee 
known as the Americans Organized for Political Stability. 
As such, I am in receipt of correspondence relating to 
this CoTaiiittee forwarded to me by the Trustee of the Trust 
for Agricultural Political Education (TAPE). 

I have investigated the subject of the correspondence 

and can verify that on August 19, 1971, a contribution in the 

amount of $2,500 was received from TAPE. This amount was 

deposited on that date to the account of the Committee. 

I can advise that the Chairman of Americans Organized 
for Political stability is Elmira C. Carmen. 



Sincerely, 




Treasurer, Leonard 
Americans Organized for 
Political Stability 



6750 



TO: 

Subject: 



Nelson Exhibit No. 15 

^:ay 19, 1971 

^^r. Harold Nelson 

Washington Discussions, Kay 13 



(.S V I 



o 

CD 



I set out herewith the matters discussed v.'ith /\sslstant Secretary 
lyng and Assistant Secretory Palmby. I as.ced no cuestlons and 
made no suggestions. The secruence of subject matter is theirs. 



1, 



They reported tlie action taken on Way 13 with respect 
to CMDorts of butter. They believe that the United 
Kingdom mir;ht take as much as 25-million pounds. 
They intended to remain totally flexible in response 
to the initial set of tenders. They also said that 
they might be able to ship some butter into the 
Continent as vvell. Full understanding v/as reported 
to have been reached with New Tealand and Australia. 
However, they expect this to be a short-term or a 
one-shot activity. They are not sure with respect 
to the declining productive capacity in New Zealand. 
Similarly, they have conflicting reports v/ith respect 
to declining production in Europe. Generally, they 
soem to think that there vrauld be a return to higher 
level of produclioTi in both areas. 

r/r. Palmby then asked a series of ruestlons seeking 
my personal opinion with respect to the liltely duration 
of need for import ouotas and for price supports. 
Specifying the response as purely personal and based 
largely on intuition, I told them that I sav.' no present 
possibilities for termination of im.port quotas or of 
price supports either. Thay asked if I were Secretary 
if I would be required to continue these. I said yes. 
Both of them seemed to agree that they could not be 
relieved of these programs during their tenure. 






6751 



3. Reference \:nz r.v-GO to I.'r. I-clnon's stntcrncnt to 

the rreckiOr.t that tlio d-iLry irioustr/ now had tl-irounh 
ClssG I bace plons and itc own cooprrotivc orranlzo- 
tionr. the rr.oans to control supply. They oucstiored 
whetivor this wca accurate. They said they would 
like to l;riov/ currently as time passes v/hat in fact 
is belno done by the cooperatives to contain produc- 
tion within tenable limits. , r- . ■ fj 



\y 



4. , ^ ReTcrcnce is rrac'e to alleged boasting and bragnlng 

by people afrUir;ted with AK'PI after the reversal of 
the price support decision. I responded that this 
clearly was not the policy of the officers or manage- 
ment i<or had any such ctatGn-Jcnts been made, Tliey 
scciT.cd to consider that to be rcr;uired to reverse 
themselves was a necessary hazard of political life. 
They did, hov.'cver, emphasize their beliefs that our 
people should not rub it in. I do not know the facts 
of this matter. 

I;cj:t, they questioned me exhaustively with respect 
to the findings on the European trip. Tiiey v.'cre fully 
Gv/are of what I was doinci. They were especially 
interested in reactions in each of the countries to 
protection against dairy imports. They also asked 
with respect to possibilities of exportation of dairy 
products and how long I tliought such market openings 
might exist. 

They then referred to adverse comments v/ith respect 
to the Press facilities and functions of AKvPI. They 
made special reference to the Secretary's displeasure 
at the absence of v.'hat he considered appropriate 
facilities and Press treatment at the Chicago conven- 
tion. I told them, quite honestly, that I was again 
not aw-::re of the facts. 

Reference was made, at first in unfavorable terms, 
to alleged manipulation of the cheese market price. 
To this I responded quite definitely that I saw nothing 
particularly wrong at all and Associated was quite 
reasonable in what had been done in cheese. I also 






, r 



6752 



7. (cortlnucd) 

poinisd out ti-jot it was nc-vc-r a rr.odal of cor.\r>otitive 
marketing procticos. They then retroctoci by merely 
saying that we should not have made cuite so much 
noire, as they put it, about v/hdt we v.-ere doing. 

s 1/ 3 

8. 1 There then follov/s a long and candid sot of state- 

ments v/hloh ui.'cuntGd to a general declaration of 
general rood v/ill toward /\?v1PI. My own reoction 
is that tins was honestly ir> tended. Vhile the 
dcclarcLion of good will may not reflect personal 
attitudes, it does seem to have become a dcpartirent- 
wide polio/. V.'e should discuss this issue. 

9, - Rofcrenco was made to the iirpossibility of direct and 

effective collaboration v/ith certain of the opponents of 
:• the Drpcr£;iiont at lov.er adrr.inistrntive levels in the 
Secrstery's cfiice, Tlic S?crctar/'s cffico considered 
that rot iTT.uch if anything could be done about this. 
They thcrerore reiterated their viev/point that v/e should 
find syscCT.-'atic bases for discussion of matters of 
mutual interest v/ith people in the Secretary's office . 

10. Vork is urderway for ultimate presentation of an 

• economic formula basis for pricing. V c should dis- 
V. ■ cuss this also. 

11, Similar reference v.'as rr.ade with respect to base plans. 
Mr. Lyng indicated that he himself had in the past 
worked with such plans. He reiterated his statement 

.' that decisions of this sort, as well as those v/ith 
respect to pricing formulas, were being made by him. 
Ke v.-ns prirticularly anxious that we talk over base 
plan pfoc-dures with him. 

12, The ir.ltlal reference to premium pricing at above- 
order levels v/as somewhat derogatory' in tone. How- 
ever, as discussion proceeded, they agreed that they 

.' • v/cre seeking different pricing bases because the 
present operational basis of price fi>dng under the 
- orders vi^as not adequate. They seemed to be somewhat 



6753 



12. (continued) 

irritated at above-order prices but can give no cpccific 
baser; for objections. Implicitly at least, they seem 
to believe that given effective formula pricing, the 
necessities for negotiation of above-order prices might 
well be lessened. ,/ 

Cr 5 \ 'f 

13. The /Assistant Secretary did not seem to consider that 
much could be expected from a bargaining bill. How- 
ever, their attitude was affirmative, if somev/hat 
pallid. On the contrar/, the Farmers Cooperative 
Service apparently v/ishes to muster support for its 
bill. 

14. Knov/ing that I planned to sec the Administrator of 
the Farmers Cooperative Service on Friday afternoon, 
he was colled to the Secretary's office that morning. 
In general, his r/ititude v/as affirmative and helpful. 
He had apparently been advised that office space and 
stenographic assistance should be made available when- 
ever we are in Washington. Reference v/as made to 
possible conflict and means for resolution thereof 
between such cooperatives as MAPI and others v/hich 
were primarily in the operating end. 

15. No reference v.as made by Assistant Secretory I yng 
or Assistant Secretary Palmby to the proposals for 
suspension or termination pooling and diversion 
provisions in the selected order area. Hov.'ever, the 
Administrator of the Farmers Cooperative Service, 
after his talk in the head office, indicated quite 
directly that if \:e sat still for at least a few days, 
tlicre v/ould probably be appropriate resolution 

of what the Department nov/ considers to have been 
a mistako. 

My reaction is a fairly firm opinion that the Depart- 
ment has now decided to work with us. After talking 
v/ith iJcssrs. Palmby and Lyng, I spent some twenty 
minutes in the patio v/ith the Secretary. Again, the 
reception was gracious and tho tone of the conversation 
v^as v.-arm. Purely as a guess, I suspect that the means 
for resolution of the price support controversy has 
impressed the Department. I get the feeling that 
Dcpcirtrricnt Oific^rs have b:cn Instructed lo cooperate 
v.ith us. /ccorclncjly, I have ac-rccd periodically to 
discuss cnecific interests of AMPI with then. 

C S 1/ S 
George I , Mehron 
GLM:lhJ 



6754 



Nelson ExmBiT No. 16 







«OWTHWCSTCim aC!.!. TCLCVHOMC COMPANT 

LONG DIltANCE SERVICE 










-fl^^^tJsliUiy^i^ l-o. 


OAv| PLACK CALLED 


1 AREA 




NUMBCR 


AMOUNT 


~-t^-> ^h^l 


^: 


^i SAN ANI" 


TETT^ 














FROM MEX HEX 








5 


53 


I * 


3 


13 NFWRQNFFLS 


TFX 


512 


625 


4054 




77 


fy : 


3 


13 AUSTIN 


TEX 


512 


465 


5073 


I 


96 


3 


14 SEGUIN 


TEX 


512 


379 


5628 




38 


1 / 


3 


15 SANAMTONIO 


TEX 


512 


344 


8557 








FROM WASH ( 


DC 


202 


785 


1000 


1 


30 




3 


15 SANANTONIO 


TEX 


512 


344 


8557 








FROM WASH OC 


202 


785 


1000 


2 


90 


* 


3 


17 LAKEFORFST 


ILL 


312 


234 


3417 


3 


50 


* 


3 


20 NFWBRNFELS 


TEX 


512 


625 


4054 




11 


* 


3 


20 HOUSTON 


TEX 


713 


772 


4385 




90 


« 


3 


20 LOUISVILLE 


KY 


502 


5R9 


4120 


1 


15 


* 


3 


20 HniJSTON 


TEX 


713 


861 


3123 


1 


07 




3 


20 HOUSTON 


TFX 


713 


861 


3123 








FROM SANANT TX 


512 


344 


85 5 7 


1 


DO 


* 


3 


22 HOUSTON 


TEX 


713 


526 


6413 




-^3 


« 


3 


22 LOUISVILLE 


K Y 


502 


5Rn 


4120 


4 


30 


♦ 


3 


23 BILOXI 


MIS 


601 


388 


2211 


1 


00 


■* 


3 


23 NFWRRNFELS 


TEX 


512 


625 


4054 




3=^ 


If 


3 


23 STERLINGCY 


TEX 


915 


37^1 


2034 




83 


« 


3 


26 NEWRRNFELS 


TEX 


512 


62 5 


4054 




30 


* 


3 


26 NEWBRNFEL S 


TEX 


512 


625 


4054 




3D 


* 


3 


27 NEWOR\'FELS 


TEX 


512 


625 


4054 




38 


* 


3 


27 SORINGFLD 


MO 


417 


862 


7071 


1 


3 


♦ 


3 


29 RR ITTON 


OKL 


405 


84 3 


0781 


6 


80 


1 -I1X--OME MUMBEJt MO. 


oay| place called 


Parea 




NUMBER 


AMC 


JLST 


144 \^^-l h 


^T 


30 MPWBONFFlS 


TEX 


bl2 


62 b 


<»054 




35 


2^ : 


4 


01 AUSTIN 


TFX 


512 


476 


2544 


1 


10 


4 


01 PITTSBURG 


KAN 


316 


231 


2790 


2 


90 


♦ 


4 


02 PITTSBURG 


KAN 


316 


231 


5843 


1 


55 


*■ 


4 


02 MARSHFIELO 


MO 


417 


468 


3775 




80 


♦ 


4 


03 LOUISVILLE 


KY 


j02 


589 


4120 




25 


* 


4 


03 LOUISVILLE 


KY 


502 


89 3 


7669 




25 


♦ 


4 


03 LOUISVILLE 


KY 


502 


589 


4120 




25 


* 


4 


03 NEWBRNFELS 


TEX 


512 


625 


405^ 




33 


♦ 


4 


03 AUSTIN 


TFX 


512 


472 


1131 


I 


03 


♦ 


4 


03 SPRINGFLD 


MO 


417 


862 


7071 


1 


00 


* 


4 


03 AUSTIN 


TEX 


512 


472 


1131 


1 


54 


* 


4 


03 CHICAGO 


ILL 


312 


693 


5000 


1 


15 


♦ 


4 


03 CHICAGO 


ILL 


312 


693 


5800 


I 


50 


« 


4 


03 NEWBRNFELS 


TEX 


512 


625 


4054 




60 


* 


4 


03 AUSTIN 


TEX 


512 


476 


2544 




56 


* 


4 


04 AUSTIN 


TEX 


512 


472 


1131 


1 


71 


* 


4 


04 AUSTIN 


TEX 


512 


471 


1131 




52 


* 


4 


04 AUSTIN 


TEX 


512 


472 


1131 




86 


■'• * 


4 


05 NEWBRNFELS 


TEX 


512 


62 5 


4054 




38 


♦ 


4 


05 AUSTIN 


TEX 


512 


472 


1131 




52 


« 


4 


05 LOUISVILLE 


KY 


502 


584 


8123 


1 


50 


* 


4 


05 LOUISVILLE 


KY 


502 


584 


8123 


1 


50 


♦ 


4 


05 AUSTIN 


TEX 


512 


472 


1131 




52 


* 


4 


05 AUSTIN 


TEX 


512 


45? 


8821 




52 


* 


4 


06 NEWBRNFELS 


TEX 


512 


62 5 


2810 


1 


16 


rzuE^-oNC HUMBca i mo. 


|DAY| r-L-v-t V-...- 


cu 


1 Ar\b#^ 


'a,* 


■';:;;rr:^ 


.._.. 


\X 


'.i.L, '.^'^1 T 


~5" 


06 MrAMI 


FlA 


:jdb 


sr^ 


2935 


1 


^ X 


<f 


06 M I AMI 


FLA 


305 


873 


2415 


1 


\\ 


4 


Oft MI AMI 


FLA 


305 


873 


293*^ 


6 


7^ 


« 


4 


06 DALLAS 


TEX 


214 


748 


621 I 








FRPM SANANT TX 


512 


826 


9772 


1 


20 




4 


07 SANANTONIO 


TFX 


512 


344 


8557 








FRPM DALLAS ^ 


rx 


214 


748 


6211 


1 


20 


■ .■■■.-: V 


4 


1)7 WASHINGTON 


DC 


202 


872 


1600 








FROM DALLAS 


rx 


214 


74 8 


6211 


? 


65 




4 


8 ARLINGTON! 


TEX 


817 


274 


2932 


1 


04 




4 


10 NEWBRNFEL S 


TEX 


512 


62 5 


4054 




38 




4 


11 n«^wbrnfels 


TFX 


512 


62 5 


4054 




!? 




4 


11 AUSTIN 


TFX 


512 


476 


2544 




84 




4 


11 NEWBRNFELS 


TEX 


512 


62 5 


4054 




30 




4 


1? AUSTIN 


TFX 


512 


472 


1131 




86 




4 


12 NEWBRNFELS 


TFX 


512 


62 5 


4054 




'38 




4 


12 NEWBRNFFLS 


TFX 


512 


625 


4054 




\% 








US TAX 


7.97 TOTAL 


87 


62 



THUBSDAY, DECEMBER 20, 1973 

U.S. Senate, 
Select Committee on 
Presidential Campaign Activities, 

Washirigton, D.G. 

The Select Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 5 :30 p.m., in room 
G-334:, Dirksen Senate Office Building. 

Present : Senator Joseph M. Montoya (presiding). 

Also present : Alan Weitz, assistant majority counsel, and Donald 
Sanders, deputy minority counsel. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Parr is here for an executive session, and v^^e would 
appreciate it if you will swear him in. 

Senator Montoya. Will you please state your name for the record. 

Mr. Parr, David L. Parr. 

Senator Montoya. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that 
you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Parr, Yes. 

Senator Montoya. Fine. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Parr, for the record would you please state your 
address ? 

TESTIMONY OF DAVID L. PARR, ACCOMPANIED BY FRED GIBSON, 

COUNSEL 

Mr. Parr. 2605 Justin Matthews Drive, North Little Eock, Ark. 

Mr. Weitz. And would your counsel please identify himself for the 
record ? 

Mr. Gibson. Yes. Fred Gibson, 1700 Pennsylvania Avenue, Wash- 
ington, D.C. 

Mr. Weitz, Mr, Parr, where are you presently employed? 

Mr, Parr, Dairymen, Inc, 

Mr. Weitz. And what is your position there? 

Mr. Parr. Staff adviser. 

Mr. Weitz. How long have you been employed by Dairymen, Inc. 

Mr. Parr. Since March of 1972. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us for the previous 10-year period your 
positions of employment, or if you want to start earlier if there is a 
convenient breaking point ? 

Mr. Parr. I was manager of Central Arkansas Milk Producers As- 
sociation in Little Rock, Ark., from August 1953 until September 1967, 
I believe. And then I was division manager of Milk Producers, Inc. 
from 1967 to 1969, and I was on the staff of Associated Milk Pro- 
ducers from 1969 to mv present employment. 

Mr. Weitz. Until 1972 ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

(6755) 



6756 

Mr. Weitz. What were your responsibilities, first at MPI, Milk 
Producers, Inc., and then at AMPI, Associated Milk Producers? 

Mr. Parr. I was involved in getting the consolidations in all the 
problems, and the consolidation uniformity of the organization. I was 
involved in politics. I was involved in promotion. I was involved in lots 
of country meetings. 

Mr. Weitz. What was the nature of the country meetings ? 

Mr. Parr. District meetings on membership. 

Mr. Weitz. Who worked with you ? Who were the other principal 
employees in Little Rock ? 

You were stationed in Little Rock the whole period of time ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. And who were your principal employees ? 

Mr. Parr. Kieffer Howard, Forest Wisdom, Tom Townsend, Joe 
Murphy, Lynn Elrod. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Bob Justice work for you ? 

Mr. Parr, Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. I've heard a number of times people working with you 
referred to as the "think-tank." I have also heard other references to 
them, but have you ever heard that term, and, if so, who constituted 
the think-tank in Little Rock ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. Mr. Murphy and Mr. Elrod and Mr. Townsend. 

Mr. Weitz. Did that refer to the agricultural economists there who 
worked up position papers and so forth ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, you refer to one of your areas of responsibility as 
that of politics. 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you expand on that, what that included ? 

Mr. Parr. That included the TAPE program, which I believe was 
started in, sometime in early 1969, and getting people to go out to 
visit with individual farmers to sign up for the TAPE program, 
and visiting with the Department of Agriculture, government officials 
in Washington and some States. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know Bob Lilly ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me show you what I will identify, I will mark as 
exhibit No. 1 for your identification. 

[Whereupon, the document referred to was marked Parr exhibit 
No. 1 for identification.*] 

Mr. Weitz. It is a letter, dated June 12, 1968, from you to Mr. Harold 
Nelson. Do you recall that letter ? 

Mr. pARR. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, in the letter you refer to various assignments, and 
one of the areas that you list is politics, and you list Parr and Lilly. 
Now, I'm not interested in — this is again by way of background. Our 
mandate does not go back to 1968. But by way of background, coming 
forward, let's say at MPI and particularly at AMPI, did you w^ork 
closely on political mattprs, as you have described, Avitli Mr. Lilly? 

Mr. Parr, No, not in a matter of closeness. Mr. Lilly had been expe- 
rienced in Texas politics, it was jny understanding, and he had con- 
siderable experience in the Texas Legislature. But during the course 

•See p. 6907. 



6757 

of working, ^Ir. Lilly and I were of course together on occasion, but 
day-to-day operations we were not. 

Mr. AVeitz. In terms of day-to-day operations or other significant 
areas ? 

Well in general, first of all, you were responsible, you reported to 
Mr. Xelson ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Throughout your employment both at MPI and then at 
AMPI? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, your position, I understand, at AMPI was spe- 
cial counsel to the general manager, ]\Ir. Nelson. Is that right? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you as a general matter involve yourself or have 
contact with most of the principal areas of activity in which Mr. Nel- 
son engaged? 

In other words, were your activities approximately as or nearly as 
broad as those of Mr. Nelson ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, it is a very difficult question to answer. I was with 
him a lot, but then I went other places Mr. Nelson did not go. So I do 
not know how to really describe it. 

Mr. Weitz. But you might deal with a number of areas which Mr. 
Nelson dealt with and you had a lot of contact with him ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, I had a lot of contact with him. 

jNIr. Weitz. Now, you mentioned the TAPE, program. When was 
TAPE formed? 

Mr. Parr. I believe in 1969. 

Mr. Weitz. xind who was principally responsible at AISIPI for its 
formation ? 

Mr. Parr. I would say Mr. Nelson and myself. 

jNIr. Weitz. Did you or Mr. Nelson discuss the matter with anyone 
else — for example, anj^ attorneys — for AINIPI to receive any type of 
legal advice or political advice? 

^Ir. Parr. Yes, I think we visited with Jake Jacobsen. 

Mr. Weitz. What type of advice did you ask for or did you receive ? 

Mr. Parr. How to set it up, the types of papers that needed to be 
filed, and the paperwork on it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you consult with anyone else outside of AMPI, in- 
cluding other attorneys or consultants ? 

Mr. Parr. I do not recall. I am sure we did, but I don't know how 
we did it. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember any discussions with DeVier Pierson? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, I l^elieve we did. 

Mr. Weitz. Was he then an attorney for AMPI ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't know exactly what time of year he worked for us, 
but it was sometime. I know DeVier had worked on that, yes. But I 
don't know at what period of time. 

Mr. Weitz. What about Richard Maguire ? You consulted with him ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz, Did he introduce you to anyone, or give you informa- 
tion about similar organizations? 

Mr. Parr. I don't remember, Mr. Weitz. I don't remember the details. 
I just remember looking around. It was new to us, the idea, and we were 



6758 

seeking advice. But I don't remember who we talked to. But those were 
two we did. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, with regard to Mr. Jacobsen's advice, you saiy he 
advised you in terms of drawing up papers and such ? 

Mr. Parr. How you really set up in a trust. I am not an attorney, so 
I do not know any legal terminology, but the type of papers that we 
needed, the way you set it up — on a State basis or some other basis. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, in 1969, in connection with the formation of TAPE 
or shortly after its formation, were there any discussions, either with 
Mr. Jacobsen or anyone else, in connection with reporting require- 
ments for TAPE to the Federal Government or any other authorities ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't recall that there were any specifically. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall any discussions in 1969 in connection with 
the formation of TAPE or shortly thereafter, concerning whether con- 
tributions could be made, whether the contributions of TAPE would 
have to be reported ? 

Mr. Parr. No, I don't remember anything like that. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know of or remember any discussions in which it 
was specifically suggested that contributions be made from TAPE that 
should not be reported or should not be somehow reflected on TAPE'S 
books of account ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. I do not remember that either. 

Mr. Weitz. What about contributions by members to TAPE? 

Do you remember any discussions about receiving money from 
TAPE members but not reflecting it on TAPE's books, so as to gene- 
rate funds for unreported or cash political contributions ? 

Mr. Parr. I do not remember that either. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Weitz. Did there come a time in 1969 when you were a party 
to or knew of discussions taking place concerning methods by which 
AMPI sought to have access to or an audience with administration of- 
ficials, Nixon administration officials ? 

Mr. Parr. Could you be more specific? 

Mr. Weitz. Was there any discussion about the availability or the 
ability of representatives of AjMPI to meet with Government officials 
to discuss problems with them, or was there a problem in that regard? 

Mr. Parr. We didn't know anybody in Nixon's administration. 

Mr. Weitz. Without putting words in your mouth, was there a 
problem with regard to meeting with or contacting or communicating 
with administration officials? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it a matter of just not knowing anyone, or was it 
a matter of actually trying to make contacts and finding that you 
could not reach anyone, or find someone who had time or wanted to 
sit down and speak with you ? 

Mr. Parr. We just didn't know anyone. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever just try to call the White House, or you 
felt without knowing anyone that would not be very fruitful ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't know what we thought, but we just did not know 
anybody. 

Mr. Weitz. And did you feel that it was important to know some- 
one, or at least be known to some extent, in order to have some fruitful 
or beneficial contacts or discussions with administration officials? 



6759 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss this with others at AINIPI, this matter? 

Mr. Pakr. I don't recall specifically, but I am sure we did. 

Mr. AVeitz. Was Mr. Nelson also aware of this problem? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was ^Ir. Lilly aware of the problem ? 

Mr. Parr. I am sure that everyone at AMPI was assured that we 
did not have any rapport with the Xixon administration. 

Mr. "Weitz. AVhen 1 ask you about their awareness, even though you 
recall no specific conversations, you are assuming, or are fairly sure, 
that there were or there must have been some discussion amongst you 
about this problem ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was ]\Ir. Jacobsen aware of this problem ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. AVeitz. Were any other attorneys or consultants of AJSIPI 
aware of the problem ? 

Mr. Parr. I guess we all were. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember any particular, if not discussions, at 
least people with whom you discussed this problem with in 1969? 

Do you remember discussing it with Mr. Jacobsen or Mr. Nelson, or 
anyone, else ? 

Mr. Parr. Are you trying to get to the Kalmbach discussion ? If you 
are, I will be most happy to talk about it. 

Mr. Weitz. All right. Were there particular meetings that resulted 
in a contribution being made or payment being made ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us about those meetings? 

Mr. Parr. Yes; there was a meeting in Dallas, Tex., at the Execu- 
tive Inn — and if you will refresh my memory 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember when that meeting took place? 

Mr. Parr. Some — I do not remember exactly, but it was sometime 
in the summer of 1969. 

Mr. Weitz. AVell, who was present at the meeting? 

Mr. Parr. ]\Ir. Semer, Mr. Jacobsen, Mr. Nelson, and myself. 

Mr. Weitz. And ^Slr. Semer was a Washington attorney who was a 
partner to Mr. Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

^Ir. Weitz. In advance of that meeting, before we pin down that 
meeting, do you know whether Mr. Semer had, or anyone on behalf 
of AMPI had, in fact, contacted any Government officials ? 

Mr. Parr. He had contacted ]Mr. Kalmbach. 

Mr. Weitz. That was before this meeting at the Executive Inn? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

]Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether he contacted anyone in the 
Government ? 

Mr. Parr. No, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know how he came to contact Mr. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Parr. No, I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. That was not discussed at the meeting ? 

Mr. Parr. No : as I recall 

Mr. Weitz. Were any other names mentioned at the meeting of Gov- 
ernment officials or other Hepublican fundraisei-s or so forth? 



30-337 (book 15) O 



6760 

Mr. Parr. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Kalmbach's name mentioned at the meeting? 

Mr. Parr. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Who mentioned his name ? 

Mr. Parr. JSIr. Semer had mentioned that he had been in touch with 
Mr. Kalmbach, and I had trouble spelling the name at that time. 

Mr. Weitz. You did? 

Mr. Parr. I did. I had never heard Kalmbach before, and Mr. Semer 
was from the Northeast and he had trouble saying Kalmbach. So I 
didn't understand Kalmbach. And Mr. Semer reported that he had 
had a conversation with j\Ir. Kalmbach. 

Mr. Weitz. He did not mention a California lawyer, but he men- 
tioned him by name ? 

Mr. Parr. I believe 

Mr. Weitz. He did not identify him merely as a California lawyer, 
he mentioned his name ? 

Mr. Parr. He mentioned his name. 

Mr. Weitz. And that was the first time to your recollection you had 
ever heard the name ? 

Mr. Parr. Kalmbach, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Is it likely — I am looking, and I will not have you 
identify them because I will assure you that you have never seen them 
before. But I am looking at Mr. Semer's chronology established by 
Mr. Seiner from his logs, and they indicate a meeting in the Executive 
Inn in Dallas, July 10, 1969. 

Does that refresh your recollection as to the period or the possible 
date of that ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there more than one meeting at the Executive Inn 
that you are aware of with these gentlemen present concerning this 
matter? 

Mr. Parr. That is the only one that I recall. 

iSIr. Weitz. How did you come, or who arranged the meeting in 
Dallas? 

Mr. Parr. I do not know who called who, Mr. Weitz. 

Mr. Weitz. Who told you about the meeting? 

Mr. Parr. I don't know that. 

Mr, Weitz. You say it was Mr. Jacobsen, Mr. Nelson, yourself, and 
Mr. Semer? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you go to Dallas with Mr. Nelson? 

Mr. Parr. You see, I am in Little Rock. 

Mr. Weitz. So you went directly from Little Rock to Dallas and 
met the other gentlemen there ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Where did the meeting take place, in someone's hotel 
room? 

Mr. Parr. Yes ; I don't know whether someone was registered there 
or what room it was. 

Mr. Weitz. Had you met Mr. Semer before that meeting ? 

Mr. Pare. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know why he was present, what role he played 
in this matter ? 



6761 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. A^^lat role was that ? 

Mr. Parr. He was the man that was looking for — he was the scout, 
I guess. 

Mr. "Weitz. He was the Washington contact? He was looking for a 
Washington contact for AMPI in the administration? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And this contact thus far, was Mr. Kalmbach, to your 
knowledge ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was ^Nlr. Kalmbach in the administration, do you know ? 

Mr. Parr. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. Was he located in Washington, do you know ? 

Mr. Parr. No; he was in California. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know what relationship existed between Mr. 
Kalmbach and the administration if any. or the President, if any? 

Mr. Parr. Well, I believe he was identified — I am not sure about this, 
but I believe he was identified as a very close associate of the President. 

Mr. AVeitz. Close personal associate ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether he was affiliated or associated with 
the President in any official capacity ? 

Mr. Parr. At that time I was not too up on who Mr. Nixon's — I 
did not know his chronological makeup. I mean, his makeup of people. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know whether Mr. Kalmbach was a fund- 
raiser? 

Mr. Parr. It could have been reported to me. I do not know that. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, what was discussed at the meeting? 

Mr. Parr. Well, as I recall Mr. Semer reported, I believe this to 
be correct — Mr. Kalmbach wanted cash. I believe it was $100,000, or 
there was a discussion about $100,000, and whether Mr. Kalmbach had 
asked for it or^ — anyway, it was cash. 

Mr. AVeitz. There had been some contact previously to this between 
Mr. Semer and ^Ir. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Parr. That is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you also get the impression or actually understand 
that there had been previous discussion between Mr. Semer and some 
of the people at this meeting, such as Mr. Xelson and Mr. Jacobsen 
about this matter, or did you understand that they were hearing it for 
the first time ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't remember getting any impression on that. 

Mr. Weitz. Is your limitation of knowledge merely one of recollec- 
tion, or also because your attendance at this meeting brought you into 
the transaction or series of contacts not at the very outset ? 

In other words, had there been previous contacts that you were not 
aware of at the time of this Dallas meeting ? 

Mr. Parr. I just don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. But $100,000 in cash, as I understand your testimony, 
was discussed ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And you are not clear whether Mr. Kalmbach had orig- 
inally asked for it, or whether it had been offered to Mr. Kalmbach, 
but that was being discussed ? 



6762 

Mr. Parr. That was the discussion ; yes, sir, 

Mr. Weitz. It could have been either way ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, I don't want to make a — falsely accuse anyone 
either way. But I just do not recall. One thing was clear to me. What- 
ever it was and however it started, it was cash. 

Mr. Weitz. That was clear. 

Mr. Parr. That was clear. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it discussed or explained as to why it was to be 
in cash? 

Mr. Parr. No. sir. I do not recall that. 

Mr. "Weitz. Was there any reference at the meeting to reporting 
the contribution or not reporting the contribution ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't recall any discussion of that nature. 

Mr. Wefiz. What was the discussion, other than their mention- 
ing $100,000 in cash ? What else can you recall ? 

Mr. Parr. Who was going to California, and who was not going 
to California. 

Mr. Weffz. "Who was and who wasn\.? I am asking you. 

Mr. Parr. Well, it was finally decided that Mr. Semer would go. 

Mr. Weitz. And none of the others ? 

Mr. Parr. None of the others. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there some discussion about^ — or you indica^ted 
there was. "Was there some suggestion that others might accompany 
Mr. Semer? 

Mr. Parr. Yes ; there was discussion. 

Mr. Weitz. Who suggested that others might go ? 

Mr. Parr. I clon^. know the discussion, but at one point in the 
discussion I guess all four of us were going, or any combination 
of the four. 

Mr. Weitz. "Wliy was it determined that only Mr. Semer would 
go? 

Mr. Parr. I just don't remember. 

Mr. Weitz. What else was discussed at the meeting, or what 
other facets of this transaction ? 

Mr. Parr. That is about the only thing I remember. If you want 
to ask me something and refresh my memorj^, I will be glad to 

Mr. Weitz. Well, I'm trying to exhaust your own recollection first. 

Mr. Parr. That is really all. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me ask you this. Was it your understanding that 
someone had the money at this meeting and was going to take it 
out to Mr. Kalmbach immediately after the meeting ? 

Mr. Parr. No, nobody had any money that I knew of. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it your understanding that the trip to Califor- 
nia that was then being discussed was immediately after the meeting 
to just meet with Mr. Kalmbach, or was it the trip to deliver the 
money that was being discussed ? 

Mr. Parr. The trip to deliver the money. 

Mr. Weitz. And was it your understanding that that was to take 
place rie:ht after this meeting, or at some future time ? 

IVIr. Parr. I believe, if my memory serves me correctly, that — 
at least I got the impression that Mr. Semer would leave the follow- 
ing day, I believe, or later that day. 

Mr. Weitz. For California? 



6763 

Mr, Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. AVith oi* without the money ? 

Mr. Parr. "With the money. 

j\rr. Weitz. "With tlie money ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. sir. And of course I had no access to any funds, 
so Mr. Nelson took it from there. 

Mr. "Weitz. "Well, what was decided at the meeting — ^that Mr. 
Semer would go to California with the money ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. "Weitz. How was the money to be obtained? "What was the 
source of the funds ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't recall that I had any knowledge of that. He 
had to get tlie money from some pla^e. 

]Mr. "Weitz. Xow. at this meeting— now, searcli back — was there 
any reference at all b}' anyone to TAPE, or did it strike you, for 
whatever reason, that the money was going to come from TAPE ? 

Mr. Parr. I'll be very honest with you, Mr. Weitz. Mr. Nelson, 
Mr. Semer. Mr. Jacobsen. all three were attorneys. I guess it didn't 
cross my mind. 

Mr, "\Veitz. You did not have any impression it was coming from 
TAPE one way or the other ? 

Mr. Parr. No. sir. I didn't. 

:Mr. Weitz. Well. $100,000 is a lot of money. 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wettz. Was it clear that they were not talking about per- 
sonal contributions? I mean, the four of vou were each not going 
to dve $25,000? 

Mr. Parr. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, this w^as at least an effort on behalf of AMPI, 
from whatever source, to provide the funds; it was an effort to — 
or was your meeting, as representatives of AINIPI, in connection with 
a matter relevant to AMPI ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Air. Weitz. What was the purpose of the delivery of the money? 
What was the reason for giving the money to jNIr. Kalmbach? Did 
you know that, or did you have an understanding as to that ? 

]\rr. Parr. I don't recall any specific thing that Mr. Semer had 
repoi-ted after his conversation with Mr. Kalmbach, other than he 
was high in Nixon's organization. 

Mr. Weitz. '\"\niat was the purpose of the money? Was there any 
discussion as to wliother it was a contribution or Avhether it was — 
or. for example, did you know that >\[r. Kalmbach was a lawyer? 

^fr. P»RR. Yes; T guess I did know tliat he was a lawyer. 

]\fr. Wettz. Was that mentioned, that he was an attorney or lawyer? 

Mr. Parr. I belie\-e I remember them saying that he was an at- 
torney. I believe I knew he was an attorney. 

Mr. Wettz. Did you understand from anything that was said that 
it was to be a contribution, as opposed to a gift or a payment for legal 
fees of some sort ? 

Mr. Parr. No. sir. I did not know really what disposition of the 
money would be made. 

'Sir. Weitz. Well, what did you consider, or what did those people 
at the meeting consider the money to be for? Obviously, when, you 



6764 

^ive money to someone they can use it for a number of purposes. But 
do you know what you intended by the payment? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, was it for Mr. Nixon's personal or private use? 

Mr. Parr. I do not know. I did not get that inference. It was — 
again, I just do not recall anything about that. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, let me a=k you this. You understood that rhe money 
was going to be delivered to Mr. Kalmbach. I take it, because of — 
or in some way in relation to the effort of AMPI, to gain access to 
the administration, or at least because they did not know anyone 
in the administration ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you understand that the money was in some way 
going to the President, or at least was money that was being given — 
not to some lower echelon employee, but rather was being contributed — 
to whom it was being contributed because of his relationship to the 
President ? 

Mr. Parr. That sort of messed me up. 

Mr. Weitz. It is confusing. Let me just step back. 

Did you essentially consider it, for whatever purpose it was going 
to bo used, did you consider it in the nature of a political contribution? 

IMr. Parr. Really, at the time — and that is where I'm having 
trouble — at the time, I do not know whether it was political, whether 
it was to hire Mr. Kahnbach. All I remember about that conversation 
is that there was $100,000 and they wanted it in cash. 

Mr. Weitz. And it could have been used for whatever purpose they 
saw fit. as far as you were concerned ? 

Mr. Parr. I suppose so. 

]\Ir. Weitz. The money was ultimately delivered, was it not? 

IMr. Parr. I do not know that. And the reason I say I do not know 
is because I never did hand the money to anybody. 

Mr. Weitz. Did anyone ever tell you it was delivered ? 

Mr. Parr. I do not recall anybody ever telling me. I am not saying 
they didn't, but I don't recall it. 

Mr. Weitz. Was San Clemente mentioned at that meeting in Dallas ? 

Mr. Parr. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever hear any reference to San Clemente in 
relationship to this transaction or payment ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. But at the conclusion of the meeting it was decided that 
Mr. Semer would go to California, that he was the one that was to 
deliver the money, and you did not know where the money was to 
come from? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. I knew Mr. Nelson had to get it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ever talk to you about it afterward? 

Mr. Parr. That's what I said before. I don't recall whether he 
did or not, but I am not denying he did. I assume that the discussion 
was held, because I have been reading about it. 

Mr. Weitz. Now you say you did not know anything about this 
transaction. 

What contact did you have with Mr. Semer, if any, before this 
meeting ? You say you knew him. 



6765 

Mr. Parr. I have forcfotten when Mr. Semer was hired, or when 
I first met him, ]\Ir. Wcitz. But I had met him prior to that. I know 
that. 

Mr. Weitz. "Was it at least several months before the meeting? 

Mr. Parr. I would think so. 

Mr. "Weitz. Did you talk with him by telephone several times, or 
frequently before this meetinfj ? 

yiv. Parr. AVell, I was in "Washington and I met him here in "Wash- 
ington. I had known ]Mr. Jacobsen, and I have forgotten how we — 
as I recall, the first instance T had with Mr. Semer, Mr. Nelson told 
me — I believe this to be correct — that Mr. Jacobsen had a partner: 
and they were going to hire a Mr. Semer. I believe that was the way 
it was. 

Mr. "Weitz. After having met him in "Washington, did you have 
further contact with him by telephone or in person until the time of 
that meeting in Dallas? 

Mr. Parr. I'm sure I did. 

^Ir. "Weitz. And what did you discuss with him? "What were the 
reasons for those contacts ? 

Mr. Parr. I guess — I would think it would be to acquaint him with 
the pi'oblems of the milk industry. 

]Mr. AVeitz. Did he ever inform you prior to the meeting in Dallas 
about his meetings with Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Parr. Xo. 

Mr. "Weitz. Before the meeting in Dallas, did he ever discuss with 
you or mention these contacts he was making with anyone in the ad- 
ministration, or with Mr. Kalmbach? 

Mr. Parr. I've forgotten the first time I heard the word "Kalm- 
bach." whether it was in Dallas or whether it was in "Washington. I 
don't know whether it was from Mr. Semer or not. I don't know where 
I heard it from. 

Mr. Weitz. "Well, the reason I am asking you these questions, in 
this chronologv I refer to, prenared by Mr. Semer, his losfs indicate 
a number of phone calls to you in June and July of 1969, sometimes 
on the same day as contacts with Mr. Kalmbach. and I am just 
curious as to whether he ever talked to you about them, 

^Ir. Parr. Xo, I don't recall. I don't recall that at all. 

]Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. Semer ever met with Mr. 
Kalmbncli or <-nlke(l to him ? 

Mr. Parr. He rejoorted he talked to him. 

]Mr. "Weitz. He reported that at this Dallas meeting ? 

Mr. Parr. He might have reported that before then, Mr. "Weitz. 
I just recall that I first heard of 'Sir. Kalmbach from Mr. Semer. and 
I don't know whether it was thnt first time in Dallas or whether I had 
heard it before, or just where I heard it. and when he had talked to 
him. and whether he had talked to him the same day or not 

Mr. "Weitz. "What was the purpose of the payment, if in fact it was 
made, insofar as the intended payment ? "What was the purpose of the 
payment insofar as you understood ? 

]Mr. Parr. I don't know how to phrase it. 

Mr. "Weitz. Just tell us what you thought it was. 

Mr. Parr. "Well. I guess it was for having somebody in the Nixon 
administration know who we were. 



6766 

Mr. Weitz. Well, has it been your experience that it was necessary, 
what I would characterize at least was a substantial payment, in order 
to have someone know who you are ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. You consider that somewhat unusual ? 

Mr. Parr. I guess we did then. 

Mr. Wettz. If it had been for legal fees, would it be usual to make 
a $100,000 downpayment on legal fees in cash ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, I never had to make one that way. 

]Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether any other payment for legal fees 
had ever been made that way by AMPI ? 

Mr. Parr. Not that I know of. 

^Ir. Weitz. Whether or not it was called legal fees or contribution 
or payment, however, the purpose you have stated is the purpose that 
you understood the delivery of the money to be for ? 

]\Ir. Parr. Yes, sir. 

]\Ir. Weitz. And it was to go to someone who was a close associate 
of the President because, I take it, he wavS — or had some relationship 
to the President ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever talk with Mr. Lilly about this transaction, 
the delivery of the money, or at least discussion of the delivery of the 
money ? 

]Mr. Parr. I don't recall that. 

Mr. Weitz. And you have no idea to this day, other than what you 
have read in the paper, wdiat the source of those funds were, if in fact 
a payinent was made ? 

Mr. Parr. No ; I don't know how the money was moved. 

INIi-. Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. ,Tacobsen had anything to 
do with generating the sources of those funds ? 

Mr. Parr. No ; I don't guess I do. 

Mv. Weitz. Until the time of that meeting, had you met with any 
administration olficials, Nixon administration officials ? 

Mr. Parr. I met with ]Mr. Nelson. I met with Mr. Glcason, Jack 
Gleason. 

Mr. Weitz. AVhen was that ? 

Mr. P VRR. I don't remember the time. 

Mr. Weitz. What matters were discussed at that meeting with Mr. 
Gleason ? 

Mr. Parr. Do you know that I met with ]\Ir. Gleason? If you do, if 
you can refresh my memory it Avoiild help me. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, did you have any discussion about campaign 
contributions at that meeting? 

Ml'. Parr. When I met Mr. Gleason — I was trying to get the chrono- 
logical order — Mr. Semer, I believe, was the man who arranged for 
the meeting. I believe this to be correct. It was for us to meet with 
Mr. Gleason. And we got a request from Mr. Gleason for $5,000. 

]Mr. Weitz. In cash ? 

Mr. Parr. In cash. And I reported that to Mr. Nelson. 

Mr. Weitz. You met with ]Mr. Gleason in his office in the Executive 
Office Building? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that the first time you met Mr. Gleason ? 



6767 

Mr. Parr. Xo ; I believe this was the second time. 

Mr. Weitz. What about the first meeting? Was that also with Mr. 
Nelson ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

]Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Semer at either of these two meetings, or Mr. 
Harrison at either of these two meetings? 

Mr. Parr. I don't recall whether they were or not. I think Mr. 
Nelson was at the first meeting, and as I remember I was at the second 
meeting. 

^Ir. Weitz. With anj-one else ? 

Mr. Parr. I just don't remember. I've been trying to refresh my 
memory. 

Mr. Weitz. And was it at the second meeting that Mr. Gleason 
asked for $5,000 in cash I 

]Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he say what he wanted the money for ? 

Mr. Parr. Xo, sir. 

]Mr. Weitz. Did you ask him ? 

^Ir. Parr. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Had you discussed political matters or political con- 
tributions with him before his request, or in connection with his 
request ? 

5lr. Parr. I just don't remember the conversation surrounding that. 
I just remember the 

Mr. Weitz. Did that surprise you ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. When he asked for the cash, did he mean that he wanted 
your personal funds or your company's funds, or what ? 

]Mr. Parr. Well, I know' what the answer would have been if he 
would have asked me for my personal funds. 

Mr. Weitz. You would have told him no ? 

]Mr. Parr. Yes. sir. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Did you get the impression he was asking you to find 
$5,000 from whatever source, or did you talk about TAPE with him? 

!Mr. Parr. Yes; I'm sure he knew about our TAPE program. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he know TAPE was a reporting entity ? 

]\Ir. Parr. I don't know what he knew. 

^Ir. Weitz. But he asked for the money in cash ? 

]Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

^Nlr. Weitz. And he did not tell you for what purpose? 

!Mr. Parr. Xo, sir. 

lsl\\ Weitz. Did he say it was to be a political contribution to some 
candidate ? 

]Nrr. Parr. I just don't remember what that was. I just remember 
tliat there was $5,000. 

]Mr. Weitz. Do you have any idea what year this meeting took place, 
in what year? 

Mr. Parr. Xo, sir. I don't. 

INIr. Weitz. Was it before or after this meeting in Dallas that you 
have descril^ed ? 

jNIr. Parr. I don't remember that either. You see, the reason I am not, 
or cannot answer your question— if I were working for AMPI now I 



6768 

could get the records and in some way decipher what you are asking 
me. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, what records would reflect that? 

Mr. Parr. Well, someone at AMPI would— Bob Isham or Nelson or 
Lilly would know. 

:Nir. Weitz. Well, let me ask you this. :Maybe we can pursue it an- 
other way. After this request, what did you tell Mr. Gleason? 

Mr. Parr. I told him I would report it to :Mr. Nelson. 

Mr. Weitz. And did you do so ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

;Mr. Weitz. And what did j\Ir. Nelson say ? 

Mr. Parr. "I heard you," or something to that effect. 

Mr. Weitz. He did not ask any further questions ? 

Mr. Parr. No. 

Mr. Weitz. After you reported to Mr. Nelson, did you have any oc- 
casion to discuss it with anyone else at AMPI ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't recall discussing it. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Nelson ever talk to you about it again ? 

Mr. Parr. Not that I recall. 

]\Ir. AVeitz. Did ]Mr. Lilly ever discuss it with you? 

Mr. Parr. I don't recall he did. 

INIr. Weitz. Did you meet with Mr. Gleason after that meeting? 

Mr. Parr. If I knew what year it was I could tell you. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, I think the records of the White House reflect that 
Mr. Gleason left the employ of the "WHiite House somewhere in the 
middle of 1970, so if you met with him at his office while he was em- 
ployed at the "Wliite House 

Mr. Parr. It would have to be sometime in 1969 or 1970. 

Mr. Weitz. 1969 or the first half of 1970, if possible. 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

jNIr. Weitz. Well, if in that period — do you recall whether you met 
with Mr. Gleason subsequent to his request? 

Mr. Parr. You mean before or afterwards ? 

Mr. Weitz. Afterwards. 

Mr. Parr. It is just my recollection that I met with Mr. Gleason 
about three or four different times. 

Mr. Weitz. And this, to your best recollection, was the second time 
you met with him ? 

Mr. Parr. I'm a little confused. I do not know the time and place. I 
just remember the $5,000. 

JNIr. Weitz. What I am getting at is, do you recall ever discussing 
that request for $5,000 again with ^Ir. Gleason after he first raised it? 

iVfr. Parr. No. I do not think so. 

i\Ir. Weitz. Do you know whether some cash or some moneys were 
delivered to IVIr. Gleason by anyone on behalf of A]\IPI or TAPE ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

]Mr. Weitz. Has anyone ever told you that they were ? 

Mr. Parr. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Harrison involved in any way with this re- 
quest — do you associate him with being at the meeting or anything of 
that type? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. I do not remember Mr. Harrison. 



6769 

]Mr. Weitz. Do you remember anyone else in connection with this 
request, anyone that you associate with it, either as being there or dis- 
cussing it with you at any time? 

Mr. Parr. Xo, sir. I don\ remember. 

:Mr. AVeitz. Do you know what that money was to go to, if in fact it 
was ever delivered? 

Mr. Parr. I don't know. 

]Mr. "Weitz. Xow. by the time that request was made, do you have a 
recollection that the problem you described in terms of AINIPI people 
not knowing anyone in tiie administration, had that been resolved, or 
at least had that situation improved somewhat? 

]Mr. Parr. Xo, I don't recall any significant 

Mr. Weitz. Well you at least knew Mr. Gleason enough to meet with 
him ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

INIr. Weitz. And he knew you well enough to ask for the money? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall any meetings with Harry Dent? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you meet with Mr. Dent? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. How many times, do you recall ? 

Mr. Parr. Once, I believe. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me mark for identification exhibit Xo. 2, a memoran- 
dum dated August 19, 1969, to the Honorable Harry S. Dent from 
Harold Xelson. 

[Whereupon, the document referred to was marked Parr exhibit 
Xo. 2 for identification.*] 

Mr. Weitz. First of all, it has your name listed below, along with 
Mr. Xelson's and Mr. Semer's. Have you ever seen a copy of that 
memorandum ? 

Mr. Parr. It says I got a copy of the letter, but I do not recall this. 
But it says I got it. so I guess I got it. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, it lists your name there. So you may not have got- 
ten it. But I am just asking you Avhether you have ever seen it. 

Mr. Parr. I do not recall this. Xo. I don't remember that. 

Mr. Weitz. This is from !Mr. Xelson, as it reads anyway. The first 
sentence reads : "In accordance with your suggestion made in your of- 
fice this morning, here are the details of our invitation to the President 
to address the annual meeting of Associated Daiiyman, Inc." 

I have several questions in connection with that. Fii-st of all, that 
indicates that Mr. Xelson met with Mr, Dent on the day of the 19th, 
and I might add, Mr. Semer's logs apparently indicate that also. 

Do you recall being at that meeting with Mr. Xelson and Mr. Dent? 

]Mr. Parr. I really don't recall it, but if you say I was there, I was 
there. 

Mr. Weitz. Xo, I am not saying that. 

Mr. Parr. I just don't recall if I was there. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know if Mr. Xelson met with Mr. Dent more 
than once? 

Mr. Parr. X^, I don't. 

*See p. 6909. 



6770 

Mr. Weitz. But you met with Mr. Dent once that you recall ? 

Mr. Parr. I just remember one tinw, but I might have met him twice. 

Mr. Weitz. What was discussed at the meeting at which you 
attended ? 

Mr. Parr. I believe we were getting acquainted with Mr. Dent. I 
mean, we had heard his name mentioned, that he was from South 
Carolina. I don't know whether I knew that then or not. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you associate that meeting, the meeting you attended 
in any way — within a month or tvvo — with the meeting in Dallas in 
whicli the payment of money was discussed ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it shortly thereafter, or you do not recall ? 

Mr. Parr. I do not recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, exhibit No. 2 discusses, as I read, an invitation to 
the President to attend an annual meeting of the Associated Dairymen. 

Was an attempt made in 1969 or an invitation extended to have the 
President attend such a meeting ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, you see, that is what is confusing me about that 
letter. Associated Dairymen. That was in 1969, was it not? 

Mr. Weitz. The memorandum was in 1969, yes. 

Mr. Parr. Associated Dairymen was in existence. Mr. Nelson was 
general manager of Associated Dairymen. It was a federation of dairy- 
men cooperatives. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall an effort to get the President to attend an 
annual meeting of that organization ? 

Mr. Parr. If it indicates that, we did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you have any contact or participation in that effort? 

Mr. Parr. I could have even been at that meeting, but that is just 
blank to me. That is the first time I remember seeing that letter. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me ask you this. 

After the meeting which you attended in Dallas which discussed the 
payment of money to Mr. Kalmbach, do you recall any events that took 
place, or any meetings or a series of meetings, in which your access 
to the administration improved or by which you began meeting people 
in the administration, as contrasted with prior to that meeting in 
Dallas? 

Mr. Parr. Well, let me phrase it this way. During the Johnson ad- 
ministration we had close relationships with the Johnson administra- 
tion. And we never did spend that much time with the White House 
during the Nixon administration, I do not know whether that answers 
your question or not. 

Mr. Weitz. All right. Well, maybe we'll come to some other meet- 
ing later. 

Mr. Parr, OK. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall a meeting at all with Mr. Colson? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember meeting with him as early as 1969 ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't remember the exact time. 

Mr, Weitz. But you met with him a number of times ? 

Mr. Parr. I would say three or four. 

Mr. Weitz, What was the first time you met with him, do you 
recall ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 



6771 

Mr. Weitz. Who arrang^ed your meotino;s with Mr. Colson ? 

Mr. Parr. I believe ]Mr. Harrison. 

Mr. Weitz. ]Mr. Harrison was at the time representing AMPI? 

Mv. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember meeting with INIr. Cashen? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Would he usually be in the same meetings with you and 
]Mr. Colson. or would those be separate meetings ? 

Mr. Parr. I believe Mr. Cashen was INIr. Colson's assistant. I do not 
remember how that— I remember meeting ]Mr. Cashen, though. I re- 
member meeting ]Mr. Colson. 

jNIr. Weitz. Would they be together or separate meetings? 

Mr. Parr. I believe they had adjoining offices or close offices. I do 
not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Hid it develop, or did you understand Mr. Colson to be 
one of your principal contacts or people in the administration to see 
in the White House ? 

]Mr. Parr. I believe he was identified as a special interest organiza- 
tions or associations. 

j\Ir. Weitz. That was his area of responsibility? 

]Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

]Mr. Weitz. And as such that was the person you met with, he was 
the person you saw in the White House? 

]\Ir. Parr. Well, that was the person we had an appointment with. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever discuss anj^ prior or contemplated political 
contributions Avith ]Mr. Colson? 

iSIr. Parr. Did we ever discuss with him ? 

]Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

]Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did vou ever discuss any Presidential contributions with 
Mr. Colson ? 

Mr. Parr. I think yes. 

Mr. Weitz. I do not want to get ahead of ourselves. Was this in 
1970 or was it later? 

When I say Presidential, I mean particularly 1972 Presidential 
campaign, such as contributions to the President. 

Mr. Parr. Well, ]\Ir. Xixon was inaugurated in 1969? 

]\rr. Weitz. Yes. 

]Mr. Parr. And the farmers, our dairy farmers were overwhelm- 
ingly for Xixon. We were getting more Republican members as we 
consolidated dairy farmers, and we were being cast as strictly pro- 
Democrats because that's Avhere we come from. So we were very con- 
scious from the standpoint of oui- own membership relations to — that 
the President was a Republican and the farmers did support him, 
and that he was the President. 

Mr. Weitz. And that is the reason that a-ou discussed or intended 
to make political contributions to the President ? 

^fr. Parr. Yes. Because we had. T recall — T have forgotten the A^ear — 
but in the sixties. States in the MPI area — I don't know whether it was 
1969 or 1970, but in that period of time we Avere getting Avritten up 
by papers constantly that we Avere pro-Democrats. And I guess we 
Avere. because that Avas just about all we had doAvn there in our part 
of the country. 



6772 

Mr. Weitz. So the organization was trying to more or less offset or 
dispel that image with the administration as being Democratic? 

Before we get into some of tlie later contacts, just to keep this in 
order — 

Did there come a time in 1969 when you became aware of or some- 
how heard of an effort to raise $100,000 to pay someone back — or 
somehow to compensate someone for the previous — or some organiza- 
tion for the previous delivery of money to Mr. Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you have any knowledge of a loan of $100,000 that 
Mr. Lilly took out in December 1969 ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. I would like to ask you about a number of attorneys and 
consultants who were retained or were in the employ of A]MPI at one 
time or the other? 

Were you aware that Ted van Dyk was retained by AMPI? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Wei^z. Do you know for what purpose ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, he had been, had worked for Vice President 
Humphrey. He was a very knowledgeable person about national pol- 
itics. The dairy farmers had had a problem for 80 years with not un- 
derstanding about how Government really affected their price. And 
he was a very — he impressed us. 

Mr, Weitz. Do you have any knowledge whether during any of the 
period for which Mr. van Dyk was retained by AMPI, that any of his 
billings, either for expenses or services rendered were in fact to fun- 
nel money from AlVIPI through to any other source ? 

Mr. Parr. Can I go oft' the record just a second ? 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Weitz. You have no personal knowledge? 

Mr. Parr. I don't recall any. 

Mr. Weitz. Has anvone ever told you, other than what you have 
read in the paper, of any instance Avhere Mr. van Dyk has billed 
AMPI, and with the money received given that to someone else for 
political purposes? 

Mr. Parr. I know that Mr. van Dyk had some polling work done 
for us in the Northeast, I believe it was. I don't know if this is what 
you are talking about or not. I believe he did a survey for us, I believe 
in the State of Arkansas. I believe also that there was some work in 
one of the Dakotas. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, for that work Mr. van Dyk paid for that work and 
then billed AMPI, is that correct ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. In addition to those instances, do you know of any 
instances in which he gave money, he or anyone in his organization 
gave any moneys received from AMPI back to any AMPI employees? 

Mr. Parr. That I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Has anyone told you of that ? 

Mr. Parr. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you as a p-eneral matter review or approve his bills, 
Mr. van Dyk's bills, to AMPI ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes ; I believe they come to our office. 

Mr, Weitz. Did you generally approve most of the bills for attorneys 
and consultants of AMPI ? 



6773 

Mr. Parr. "Well, the records reveal that Mr. van Dyk's bills came to 
mv office. 

^:Mr. AVeitz . "\"\li y Avas that ? 

Mr. Parr. T jnst don't really recall how it got started. 

;Mr. "Weitz. Did you have frequent contact with Mr. van Dyk? 

Mr. Parr. Yes; I <ruess it was for the reasoii thnt he Avas writing" up 
reports to us all the time about what the mood of the country was and 
Avhat politics was doino; and AA-hat issues Avere cominT up and all those 
type of tliinirs. He Avas verA' sensitive to that type of thina;. 

Mr. "Weitz. I think he referred, vou said that DeVier Pierson was 
a lawyer for A:MPI ? 

Mv. Parr, Yes. 

Mr. "\Yeitz. Do you have aTiy knowledofe from auA- other source other 
than Avhat vou'a'c read in the ncAvsnaper^ Avhetb.er Mr. Pierson gave 
any moneys that he receiA-ed to A^NIPI back to employees or anyone 
representiuEf AMPI. or otherAvise paid them out for political purposes? 

Mr. Parr. Xo. sir. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Was Frank ^Masters a lawyer for AMPI ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. sir. 

^[r. "Weitz. I'll ask tlie same question. 

Do you knoAv of auA' such instance with rejiard to ]\Ir. Masters? 

]\rr. Parr. Xo. sir. And let me sav this. I do not Avant to say I had 
not heard about it, because I do not knoAv Avhat I haA'e heard and Avhat 
I have not heard. 

Mr. Weitz. But you know of no particular instances, or know of 
no circumstances that Avould relate to any such matters? 

]\rr. Parr. Xo, sir. 

]\Ir. "\Veitz. Other than what you may A'aguely haA'e heard at some 
point or another ? 

Mr. Parr. That is correct. 

]Mr. "\Veitz. And vou are not even sure a^ou heard that? 

^Ir. Parr. I am not eA'cn sure of that. 

Mr. "\Veitz. Do you knoAv Stu Russell ? 

]\Ir. Parr. Yes, sir. 

^Ir. "\Veitz. And he has been an attorney for AINIPI for a period of 
time, or he Avas? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. sir. 

]Mr. "\Veitz. Before that time he was an attorney for Central Arkan- 
sas Milk Producers Association, for you, Avas he not? 

]\rr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

!Mr. "Weitz. For the co-op ? 

Mr. Parr. He was on retainer fee for a number of co-ops. 

Mr. Weitz. Including yours at that time ? 

^NTr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. "\Yeitz. Did he ever talk to you about any transactions or in- 
stances in AA'hich he Avas receivinof moneys from AMPI and paying 
them out to either A^NIPI employees or anyone else for political pur- 
poses or for other purposes? 

Mr. Parr. Xot to my — that Avas general knoAvledcre. 

Mr. "\Yeitz. (xeneral knoAvledsre in the organization of AMPI ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, let me — hesitant to say specifically, I do not know 
of auA^ indiA'idual transactions. 

Mr. Weitz. Did vou knoAv of anv transactions ? 



6774 

Mr. Parr. No, not if you can refresh my memory. But I do not 
recall any. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it common knowledge or general knowledge, as you 
say, that the moneys he was receiving or paying out were for various 
political purposes? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Political contributions? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it your understanding that Mr. Russell was aware 
of this common knowledge, or that he in fact was aware that the 
moneys he was paying out were for political purposes ? 

Mr. Parr. That I don't know about. 

Mr. Weitz. But you seem to know it. 

Mr. Parr. Yes, I know it. 

Mr. Weitz. How did you come to know it, do you know? Did you 
ever discuss it with anyone ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't recall discussing it with anybody, but I am sure 
that I could have or probably did. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever ask Mr. Russell for any moneys for 
political purposes? 

Mr. Parr. I recall the situation that — I have forgotten the year, 
Mr. Weitz, but I believe it was 1970 that Jim Jones ran for Congress- 
man against Page Belcher, who was the incumbent. And I recall there 
was a furor over there within the AMPI board of directors and the 
Oklahoma people, and I believe I got a call from a Mr. Tom Townsend 
asking my advice on what to do about a request that he had from, I 
guess Mr. Belcher — I don't know whether Mr. Belcher per se or 
Belcher's representatives — for $5,000 in cash. 

Mr. Weitz. From AMPI ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

And I referred him to Mr. Russell, because he was in Oklahoma to 
seek advice and counsel on what to do. And I do not know what 
happened after that, but I remembered that instance. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, let me ask you this. You say either Mr. Belcher 
or his representatives asked Mr. Townsend ? 

Mr. Parr. I believe Mr. Townsend was in Oklahoma. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Townsend normally at that time was in Little 
Rock, or worked for you in Little Rock? 

Mr. Parr. Well, I'm talking about — Mr. Belcher liked Mr. Town- 
send. They had a relationship. He thought Mr. Townsend was a law- 
yer. He used to call him the lawyer, which he wasn't. But I don't 
know the facts surrounding it, but I know there was something. 

Mr. Weitz. Why did Mr. Townsend ask you or tell you about this? 

Mr. Parr. Well, I guess he wanted advice. 

Mr. Weitz. And you gave him the advice to talk to Mr. Russell? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Why did you do that ? 

Mr. Parr. Because Mr. Russell was in Oklahoma, and just general 
knowledge that I had. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, when Mr. Gleason asked you for money you went 
to Mr. Nelson. 

Why did you not tell ]\Ir. Townsend to go to Mr. Nelson? He was 
the head of the organization. 



6775 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. Well, I am sure that Mr. Russell — I mean, they 
were in Oklahoma. They knew what the situation was going on in 
Oklahoma, and I am sure that Mr. Nelson had to be contacted, or Mr. 
Russell, to get approval of it. 

Mr. AVeitz. Did you not have fairly specific knowledge, or at least 
better than just a general rumor source, for Mr. Russell's activities? 

Didn't you either overhear or know of other instances in which he 
had provided moneys, and that's why you sent Townsend to him? 

Mr. Parr. Mr. Nelson had told me that on these type of matters you 
are not to be involved. 

Mr. Weitz. What types of matters ? 

Mr. Parr. Like the Russell deal. 

Mr. Weitz. What brought that conversation up ? Did you ask him 
about it ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't recall the instance about that. I am not trying 
to be vague about anything; I'm just trying to say that that's the way 
it was. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, you say this original request came about because 
Mr. Jones had received a contribution from TAPE? 

Mr. Parr. I just remember there was quite a furor over the Jones- 
Belcher thing. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, why was not the contribution made to Mr. Belcher 
by TAPE in 1970 ? 

Mr. Parr. As I recall, he asked for it in cash. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether the money was delivered? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. Did ]Mr. Townsend ever talk to you about it again? 

Mr. Parr. I am sure he did. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me show you exhibit No. 1 to the Marion Harrison 
deposition,* which I will not ask you to identify since it is identified 
there. It is a letter from Mr. Harrison to Mr. Nelson. But I want to 
direct your attention to paragraph 4 of the letter on page 2. Have you 
read it ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. My question is this. The last sentence of the paragraph, 
of paragraph 4, says: "Consequently, it would be my strong recom- 
mendation that TAPE and our other like organizations contribute only 
to candidates who are opposed, and let sources which can contribute in 
cash and without the risk of publicity do the contributing to those can- 
didates who are unopposed.'' 

Now. mv question is this. Do you know to Avhat sources Mr. Harrison 
was referring to? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know, either from your own conversation or 
otherwise, whether Mr. Harrison was aware that either this particular 
request from Mr. Belcher or other transactions regarding cash 
contributions ? 

Mr. Parr. Could vou start a<rain ? I was reading. 

Mr. Weitz. I said, do you know, either from personal knowledge or 
what you have overheard, whether ^iv. Harrison — I think I am re- 
phrasing it, but essentially the same— whether Mr. Harrison knew 



♦See Book 14, p. 6282. 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 26 



6776 

of either this request from Mr. Belcher or any other transactions in- 
voh'inp: cash political contributions ? 

Mr. Parr. No, I do not know that. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he know of the request by Mr. Gleason, did you say ? 

Mr. Parr. Did Mr. Harrison know? I am not aware of whether he 
was informed of that or not. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know of any other instances in which Mr. Town- 
send either asked foj- — any other instances in which Mr. Townsend was 
involved in any matter concernino; cash ]^olitical contributions? 

Mr. Parr. What do you mean, "involved" ? 

Mr. Weitz. He was asked to do something or did something, or even 
knew of another transaction, picked up money, delivered money? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Could you tell us about that ? 

Mr. Parr. I believe this to be correct, that he brought to Congress- 
man Mills — I am hazy on this because the testimony I just gave at 
the other place, and I am confused on two points. But Mr. Townsend 
brought $5,000 from Little Rock to Washington. I don't remember 
when it was, but I believe it would be for the appreciation rally for 
Mills. 

Mr. Weitz. Took it to Washington ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, I believe, and I am also — Mr. Sale asked me about 
a transaction, and I am not sure which it was. But I just don't have 
access to the records. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, are you describing two separate transactions? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. I am. 

Mr. Weitz. The first that vou have described is the $5,000 that vou 
believe he took from Tittle Rock to Washington to deliver to Mr. Mills' 
campaign or office of Mr. ]\Iills ? 

Mr. Parr. I am confused on this, and I have to get some wav of 
getting it corrected, and I don't know how to do it. But the other thing 
i am thinking about is this, that Mi'. — I met Mr. Jacobsen in Austin 
one dav. 

Mr. Wettz. At the airport ? 

]Nfr. Parr. Yes. And I don't know — he gave me $5,000, and T don't 
know what that was for. I can't remember what that Avas for, and 
I've go<" the two confused. 

Mr. Weitz. Was the second transaction you are talking about for 
Congressman ]VIills? 

Mr. Parr. That I don't know. But T know we gave $5,000. to the 
best I can reme^iber. for the appreciation rally. 

Mr. Weitz. When was that rail v ? 

Mr. Parr. That was in August of 1071. 

But this other one that Mr. Sale asked me about. T don't know 
whether that is the same i^5.000. Tt don't seei^i to me it is. because it 
seems like to me that Mr. Lillv brought the $5,000 to Little Rock. 
Mr. Weitz. And delivered it to Noi-ma Kirk ? 

Mr. Parr. I've got these two things in my mind, and I can't get 
them straight as to Avhat it was. 

]\rr. Wettz. Well, while we are on this — this is jumping ahead a 
little bit — while we are on this, mavbe we can clear it up. 

Do vou recall a situation in which you asked Mr. Lilly to bring 
$5,000"to Little Rock ? 



6777 

Mr. Parr. I think I asked Mr. Xelson. 

Mr. AVeitz. And that was for Congressman Mills? 

Mr. Parr. That was for the Congressman's appreciation rally. 

Mr. "Weitz. In August 1971 ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, that is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. And your understanding is that Mr. Lilly brought 
$5,000 to Little Eock'and delivered it to Norma Kirk at the airport? 

Mr. Parr. I am confused about this, and I don't know whether that 
was for — I know that there are two transactions, and I don't know 
whether the one involved Mills. I don't know whether the other one 
did or not. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. 

But one also invol\-ed Mr. Lilly delivering money to your secretary, 
Norma Kirk? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know what happened to that money ; what was 
done with the money ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. I believe that went to the — I believe that was the 
time of the Mills appreciation rally. 

Mr. Weitz. August 1971? 

Mr. Parr. I believe that is correct. But there is also this other one 
I am telling j^ou about, and I cannot get the two straight in my mind. 

Mr. Weitz. AVell, this other one you are talking about, for what- 
ever purpose, you received the money personally from Mr. Jacobsen, 
did you not ? 

Mr. Parr. I believe that is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. It did not involve Mr. Lilly directly or your secretary, 
Xormn Kirk, directly? 

Mr. Parr. I believe that is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. So we are talking about two separate transactions? 

Mr. Parr. I believe that is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. And you are sure that at least one of them was in con- 
nection for Congressman Mills in connection wnth the Mills apprecia- 
tion rally? 

Mr. Parr. I believe that is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know what the source of either or both of the 
moneys were, what the sources were? 

Mr. Parr. Xo, sir. I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. "\"\Tiere did Mr. Lilly get his money ? 

]Mr. Parr. Well, this Russell thing was going on, and I don't know 
whether Jacobsen Avas or was not involved in that. I don't think that 
that's where it was. 

Mr. Weitz. Let me just understand vou. You sav this Russell thing 
was going on. you don't know whether Jacobsen was involved. 

You mean Jacobsen was doing something similar to Russell, or he 
was getting his money from Russell ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't know which way it was. 

Mr. Weitz. It could have been either way. You don't know ? 

Mr. Parr. I really don't know how that part of it worked. 

Mr. Weitz. But whichever wnv it was. that would mean that in 
addition to Mr. Russell being involved in such ti'ansactions, Mr. Jacob- 
sen knew of and to an extent was involved, either as a direct conduit or 
getting money from ISIr. Russell, is that correct ? 



6778 

Mr. Parr. No. Well, I don't know how tliat was exactly. 

Mr, Weitz. Well, let me ask you tliis. You say you are not sure 
whether the money for Jacobsen was for iSIills oi' not ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. AVas it for some political contribution ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mv. Weitz. And did Mr. Jacobsen know that ? 

INIr. Parr. T don't know whether it was identified or not. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall whetlier the — — 

Mr. Parr. I just remember meetin<T ]Mr. Weitz in the airport. 

Mv. Weitz. You mean Mr. .Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Parr. I'm sorry. Mr. Weitz. I remember meeting ]Mr. Jacobsen. 

Mr, Weitz. Was anyone else with you at the airport ? 

Mr. Parr. I believe Tom Townsend was there. 

INIr. Weitz. Was he there and know what was going on ? 

Did he know you were receiving a package of money from ]\Ir. 
Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Parr. T don't know whether he did or not. 

Mr. Weitz. Was anyone else at the airport ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes ; I met ]\Ir. Lilly there. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that by accident or did you plan to meet him at 
the airpoit? 

Mr. Parr. Not that I can remember. 

Mr. Weitz. What about Joe Long, Mr. Jacobsen's partner? Was he 
at the airport at the time of the transfer ? 

Mv. Parr. I know Mv. Long, but I don't remember whether lie was 
there or not. 

Mr. Wettz. Had you gone to Austin just to pick up the money? 

Mr. Parr. No ; I was on my way to someplace. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there a INIills address to the Texas joint session, a 
joint session of the Texas legislature that you recall ? 

Mr. Parr. I went to that. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you associate in time the Mills speech with this 
transfer of money ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. I mean, it could have been at the same time, but I 
don't recall that. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall what the weather was like in the airport, 
cold or warm ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. I don't. I have forgotten even how we got to 
Austin. 

Mr. Weitz. You and Mv. Townsend ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. But it seemed like Mr. Townsend was with me. Wo 
were going someplace, and Mv. Townsend and I did attend the meeting 
of the Texas Legislature. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall any other instances in which you ran into 
Mr. Lilly at the Austin airport with Mr. Tovrnsend accompanying you 
or anyone else accompanying you in the cii'cumstances in Avliich you 
just mentioned? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. So the time that you ran into Mr. Lilly, by accident, and 
Mr. Townsend was accompanving you and Mr. Jacobsen delivered the 
money to you, that all took place on the same day ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 



6779 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know how many times you have been in the 
Austin aii-povt that you recall ? More than once? 

Mr. Parr. Oh, yes. 

^Ir. "Weitz. Do you know how mau}^ times Mr. Townsend has accom- 
panied you to the Austin airport ? 

Mr. Parr. No. 

]\Ir. "Weitz. ]\Iore than once ? 

]Vrr. Parr. T iust don't know. 

]Mr. "\A"eitz. I'm asking you these questions in order to see whether we 
can pini)oint the time. 

]\rr. Parr. Yes: that's right. 

Mr. "Weitz. But you don't necessarily associate the speech by Mills 
to the joint session of the Texas Legislature with this transfer of 
money ? 

Mi\ Parr. Xo, sir. 

Mr. "Weitz. Did you have anything to do with ]Mr. Mills appearing 
before the Texas Legislature ? 

Mr. Parr. No. 

Mr. "Weitz. Do vou know whether anybody at AMPI had anything 
to do with it ? 

^Ir. Parr. Xo ; not that I know of. 

Mr. "Weitz. Now, you mentioned the delivery of money by IVfr. 
Townsend to "Washington for ]Mills. Did you have anything to do with 
that ? Did you direct him to do so ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. AVeitz. "Who asked you for the money ? 

]\Ir. Parr. Xo one. 

^Ir. "Weitz. It was just a voluntary contribution. "\'\niat was the 
source of that money ? 

]Mr. Parr. T don't know the — I don't know what. I just requested it 
from ^Ir. Xelson. I don't know how they got the money. 

]\Ir. "Weitz. Did Mv. Townsend pick up the money ? 

Mr. Parr. "WHiere? 

Mr. "Weitz. I am asking you, did Mr. Townsend receive the money, 
or did you give him the money ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't know how that was done. 

]\Ir. "Weitz. But you did not tell him to go see Mr. Russell on that 
occasion? 

Mr. Parr. Xo, sir. 

]\Ir. "Weitz. You only told him to go see Mr. Russell on the occasion of 
the request from ^Nlr. Belcher? 

ATr. Parr. That is what I recall. 

Mr. "Weitz. "We have n letter here from ]\rr. RusseH addressed to me, 
dated December 11. 1078. Let me just mark it as exhibit Xo. 3. 

["Whei-eupon. the rlo'^ument referred to was marked Parr exhibit 
Xo. 8 for identification.*] 

Mr. "Weitz. Xow. I don't expect you to identify it, since it is not 
addressed to vou. it doesn't show any copies to you. But in the letter 
it says that ^Vfr. Russell says: "I do recall that I delivered $5,000 in 
cash to Mr. Tom Townsend. a former employee of Associated ISIilk 
Producers. Inc.'' 

Xow, do you know Avhat $5,000 he's talking about ? 

♦Seep. 6910. 



6780 

Mr. Parr, To Belcher. 

Mr. Weitz. And you cloivt believe that that is the money that he 
deliveredto Mr. Mills ? 

Mr. Parr. No. 

Mr. Weitz. How can you be cei-tain ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, on this basis, that I do recall the Belcher-Jones furor 
over there, and Mr. Lilly did come to Little Rock. There was $5,000 
there. 

Mr. Weitz. The one he delivered to your secretary? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. And the other time I was telling you about. 

Mr, Weitz. You sent him to liupsell, so you just assume, then, that 
his contact to Russell was on the Belcher matter, and these other 
moneys were (generated not with Mr. Townsend's direct involvement, 
other than deliverinp; the money to Washinoton to Mr. Mills? 

Mr. Parr. I think that is correct. 

]Mr. Weitz. Now, he goes on to say: "And $15,000 in cash to Mr. 
Wim Horowel], also a former employee of Associated Milk Producers. 
Inc." 

Do you know 'Sir. LTollowell ? 

Mr." Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know anything about this $15,000 ? 

Mr. Parr. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever direct Mr. Hollowell to get money or any- 
thing like that ? 

:Mr. Parr. No. 

IVIr. Weitz. Do you knoAV from any other sources that, whether Mr. 
Hollowell picked up $15,000 ? 

Mr. P,\RR. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know what purpose ]Mr. Hollowell would use 
$15,000? 

Mr. Parr. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Hollowell working in Little Rock? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Where was he employed ? 

Mr. Parr. I believe in the north Texas division. 

Mr. Weitz. No, other than sending Mr. Townsend to Mr. Russell on 
that occasion 

Mr. Parr. I don't think T sent him. I think I just suggested. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, were there any othei- occasions where you were 
aware that Mr. Townsend was involved in a cash transaction, other 
than the delivery that you mentioned to Mr. Mills or Mr. Russell's 
involvement in any other transaction — any other political trans- 
action ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't remember anything about Mr. Townsend, and T 
don't recall anything about Mr. Russell. 

Mr. Wp:itz. What about other employees at AiVH^I other than what 
you ha^'e already described ? 

Mr. Parr, Well, if you could refresh my memory. Right offhand 
I don't I'emember anything. 

Mr. Weitz. Not right offhand anything that you can recall? 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Weitz. I just want to touch on the other attorneys and consult- 
ants for AMPI, some of the others. 



6781 

Mr. Clifford Carter, you were aware that he was retained by AMPI ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether anyone ever asked him for money, 
any enii)loyee, for political purposes, or whether he delivered or 
produced any money for political purposes from his fees, or whatever 
source ? 

Mr. Parr. How long has he been dead ? 

Mr. Weitz. Maybe a year, maybe more. I'm not sure. 

I'm talking about the period 1969 through 1972. 

Mr. Parr. I cannot recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you recall any instance where Bob Justice went and 
asked Mr. Maguire, Richard Maguire or Clifford Carter, one or both 
of them, for money ^ 

Mr. Parr. That rings a bell. 

Mr. Weitz. Bob Justice worked in Little Rock? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever tell Bob Justice to get some money from 
somebody for political purposes ? 

Mr Parr. That rings a bell with me, Mr. Weitz. But I don't know 
what it was. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you Imow whether Mr. Maguire or Mr. Carter 
provided any moneys or were asked for moneys for political purposes 
b}' anybcKl}' connected with AMPI^ 

"^Mr. Park. I just don t remember the facts surrounding it, but there 
was something thei'e. 

Mr. Weitz. Sounds familiar, but you do not remember? 

;Mr. Parr. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether ]Mr. Justice received any such 
requests from anyone else at A]\IPI ( 

5lr. Parr. Xo. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether he ever was instructed to do some- 
thing by INIr. Xelson, for example ? 

^Ir. Parr. Xo ; I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. Was he primarily or strictly acted at your direction? 

Mr. Parr. Mostly, yes. 

]Mr. Weitz. Well, if he went to pick up such money it would have 
been at your direction ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

^Ir. Weitz. Do you know how many sources you had in terms of 
moneys generated for either Mr. Mills or anyone else? 

In other words, you've mentioned a possible source in Mr. Russell, 
and a source in Mr. Jacobsen. 

Is tliere anyone else that you knew of that generated such funds for 
political purposes, or that you ever asked for funds for political pur- 
poses directly or indirectly ? 

Mr. Parr. Xo ; I don't. I had even forgotten what you were talking 
al>out there — something there, I don't know what it was. 

^Ir. AVeitz. Do you recall Mr. Carter or Mr. jNIaguire calling either 
you or anyone else at AINIPI to complain about the request from Mr. 
Justice? 

Mr. Parr. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Bob Lilly ever tell you that he had received a call 
from ^Ir. Carter complaining about "^a request by Mr. Justice for 
money ? 



6782 

Mr. Parr. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Jim Jones was employed by AMPI for a time, was he 
not? 

IVIr. Parr. Yes. 

^Ir. Weitz. And do you know whether he ever paid any moneys for 
the AMPI employees for political purposes or otherwise? 

Mr. Parr. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, besides the instance — well, let me ask you this. 

How did you come to receive the money from Mr. Jacobsen at the 
Austin airport ? 

Did you describe— did you ask him for the money ? 

Mr. Parr. No; I don't think so. I think that I talked to Mr. Nelson 
about it. 

Mr. Weitz. How did you Imow to go to the Austin airport to pick 
up the money? 

Mr. Parr. I really don't remember? 

Mr. Weitz. Did you have any discussion that you recall with Mr. 
Jacobsen about it ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't recall any. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether, other than that instance, Mr. 
Jacobsen ever paid any moneys or delivered any moneys in cash or 
otherwise to employees or anyone for AMPI ? 

Mr. Parr. No; I don't. 

Mr. Weitz. How about Joe Long, his partner? 

Do you know whether he ever was involved in any such transaction? 

Mr. Parr. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know the source of tliat $5,000 you received from 
Mr. Jacobsen ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. But it was in cash, though ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. $100 bills? 

Mr. Parr. I have no idea. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever receive any other request from anyone in 
Government besides Mr. Gleason for political contributions, either to 
the President or anj^one else ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz .Who was that ? 

Mr. Parr. Mr. Campbell. 

Mr. Weitz. Phil Campbell of the Department of Agriculture? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And his requests were related to the President or some 
other contribution ? 

Mr. Parr. They were related to somebodv in Georgia. 

Mr. Weitz. State candidate ? 

Mr. Parr. I didn't knoM- that until someone this morning refreshed 
my memory. I didn't know who it was at the time. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know when Mr. Camplx'll made the i-equest ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Do yon know what year ? 

Ml". Parr. T believe it was 1970, but T am not sure. 

Mr. Weitz. AYas that the only request that he ever made of you for 
a contribution ? 



6783 

Mr. Parr. I believe there was — I believe there Avas two. 

Mr. Weitz. Two requests i 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. "\Veitz. AVhat was the total amount, or what was the amount of 
each request ? 

Mr. Parr. I just don't recall. 

]\Ir. Weitz. Do you know why he made a request for you for a polit- 
ical contribution ? 

]Mr. Parr. Xo; T don't even remember how the conversation went. 
"Would you consider," or something of that nature — I don't know. 

Mr. Weitz. It was made to you personally in his oflice ^ 

Mr. Parr. Xo; over the telephone. 

]Mr. AVeitz. Over the telephone? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Had you ever discussed political contributions Avith him, 
or the availability of moneys for political contributions? 

^fr. Parr. I don't recall any specific instance. 

]Mr. Weitz. Did he ask that the contributions be made in cash? 

Mr. Parr. I really, really don't loiow how they w^ere made. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, you know about the requests — were the requests 
made for cash? 

Mr. Parr. Xo: T had completely forgotten about it until I was 
refreshed todaA' about it. 

Mr. Weitz. Who did you pass the request on to. if you did? 

jNIr. Parr. ^Nlr. Xelson. 

Mr. Weitz. In each case ? 

iSIr. Parr. As I recall. Mr. Sale asked me a question of Avhether or 
not I asked Mr. Lilly, and I just cannot remember whether I talked 
to ]\Ir. Lilly. It seemed to me that on further reflection — I Avas thinking 
about here, since I left there a Avhile ago — that maj'be ]Mr. Lilly asked 
me Avhere it Avas to go. or Avho it Avas. I just do not recall the exact 
details. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you knoAv Avhether the contributions Avere made as 
requested ? 

]NIr. Parr. I suppose they were. 

Mr. Weitz. What do you mean by that ? 

^Ir. Parr. Well. I just don't knoAv. I just did not keep up Avith that 
type of thing. 

Mr. Weitz. But you passed on the request ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

:Mr. Weitz. Were they made by TAPE ? 

Mr. Parr. I just don't remember how they Avere made? 

^Ir. Weitz. i\Ir. Campbell made these requests at tAvo different 
times ; is that right ? 

Mr. Parr. I believe so. 

Mr. Weitz. In making the second request, did he refer to the first 
request at all? 

Mr. Parr. X^ot that I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he ever complain to you that the first request had 
not been honored ? 

Mr. Parr. Xo, sir. 

]Mr. Weitz. And Avhen he made the second request, did he indicate 
that he hoped or expected that it aa'ouIcI be honored? 

Mr. Parr. I suppose so. 



6784 

Mr. Wettz. Did that indicate to you that the first request had been 
honored ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, I had not even ejiven it a thought. 

Mr. Weitz. ^Yhy did you pass the request on. or Avhy do you think 
Mr. Campbell even made the request to you in the first place? 

Mr. Parr. I i^uess he was tryino- to help one of his friends down 
there. 

]Mr. WErrz. Did he know that your oi-ganization was engaged in 
making political contributions? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did vou ever discuss Presidential contributions with 
Mr. Campbell ? 

Mr. Papr. Not that T recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he know that vou had delivered money to Mr. 
Kalmbachinl969? 

Mr. Parr. I don't remember discussing anything like that with 
him. 

Mr. Weitz. Did he know that you planned to make ]-)olitical con- 
tributions to the President's reelection, or were otherwise trying to 
support the President? 

Mr. Parr. I think he knew we were trying to support the President. 

Mr. Weitz. With political conti'ibutions. among other things? 

Mr. Parr. I don't know whether he knew that or not. T don't remem- 
ber discussinjr with INTr, Campbell — I mean, the general knowledge 
that we had TAPE and that we were making conti-il)utious, but I don't 
remember any specific discussions with Mr. Campbell other than these 
two questions. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, if the contributions were made in cash and not 
from TAPE at all, can you ex]:>lain why it woidd be true ? 

Does that in any way i-elate back to the original request ? 

Was there any reason for TAPE not to make the contribution for the 
matter to be reported, that you know of ? 

Mr. Parr. If, in fact, it wei-e made in cash it would have been be- 
cause it was requested that way. 

Mr. Weitz. And that request would have hoon Hi rough you ? 

Mr. Parr. Tt would have come — T would relate the message, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. But you do not reallv recall ? 

Mr. Parr. T do not really recall, T iust do not know. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, we have talked about requests of Mr. Gleason, Mr. 
Belcher, Mr. Campliell. Are there any other requests that you can 
recall for political contributions made to you by Government officials 
in the period 1 069-72 ? 

Mr. Parr. Not that T recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, turning to the ]ieriod 1970. did you meet in 1970 
with Mr. Colson, Mr. Gleason. and Mr. Kalmbach in ^Ir. Colson's 
office ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Nelson *"here with you ? 

Mr. Parr. T believe so. 

Mr. Wettz. What was the purpose of that meeting? 

Mr. Parr. I believe we were supporting a group of Eepublican 
Senatoi-s. 

Mr. Weitz. In the 1970 campaign ? 



6785 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. "Weitz. And were any Presidential contributions discussed at 
that nieetino;, or any in general — the discussion of support for the 
President discussed? 

Mr. Parr. "Well, we were expressing; our interest in the President 
constantly, that he was well received, and T think it was pretty well 
undei-stood that we were going to support the President. 

Mr. "VVeitz. Did you discuss at that meeting, though, any particular 
amounts that you had in mind ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't remember. 

^Ir. "Weitz. "\"\"ith respect to Presidential contributions? 

Mr. Parr. I don't remember. Mi-. "Weitz. 

INIr. "Weitz. Xow. in 1970. do you recall, or did you meet with Mr. 
Colson a number of times in 1970? 

Mr. Parr. The best I can remember, we met with Mr. Colson about 
three or four different times. 

Mr. Weitz. In 1970 or in all ? 

Mr. Parr. I'm trying to recall back 3 years. But it seems to me we 
met with him three or four different times. I just don't remember 
exactly. 

yiv. Weitz. Do you recall any meetings in which you discussed 
the amounts that you hoped or intended would be contributed by 
A]MPI or TAPE, probably to the President's reelection, where you 
mentioned particular amounts? 

Mr. Parr. I recall, as I told you before, that there was a discussion 
about $1 million, and then the figure said $2 million. 

Mr. "Weitz. Xow. what meeting was this, do you recall? 

Mr, Parr. This was in ]Mr. Col son's office. 

iSIr. "\"\"eitz. One of these meetings in Mr. Colson's office? Who else 
was present at that meeting ? 

Mr. Parr. Mr. Nelson — I don't know who else, but Mr. Nelson was. 

^Ir. Weitz. "Was Mr. Harrison present? 

Mr. Parr. I just don't recall. 

Mr. "Weitz. Did he usually accompany vou with meetings to Mr. 
Colson? 

Mr. Parr. It was both ways. 

jNIr. Weitz. Some with, some without? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

]Mr. Weitz. And you were the one who mentioned, or did someone 
else mention the amounts of $1 million, $2 million? 

Mr. Parr. I've been trying to recall that ever since. I don't know 
how. I just remember there was a discussion about $1 million, and 
somebody mentioned $2 million. It was done sort of in jest at that 
time, as I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Now. were these amounts mentioned — these were the 
amounts that were discussed as the amounts that might be contributed 
to th.e President's reelection ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Wettz. Were these the amounts that were mentioned that would 
be contributed ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, I don't know how to phrase that, really. 

Arr. Weitz. Did you ever mention or tell anyone that you wanted 
to have TAPE contribute, or wanted to have contributed money to 



6786 

the President's reelection in the amount greater than the Seafarers 
Union ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. I never said anything about the Seafarers. 
Mr. Weitz. How al)out tlio AFI^CIO ? 
Mr. Parr. I could have said that. 
Mr. Weitz. Did you ever tell that to Mr. Harrison ? 
Mr. Parr. Not that I recall. But I knew this. We were new on the 
political scene. Labor had been contributing for years, and agricul- 
ture had not made many contributions in Government. 
Mr. Weitz. Let me ask you this. 
Mr, Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. You said that certainly the leadership of your orga- 
nization had been identified as Democratic from previous years? 
Mr. Park. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. At the beginning of the Nixon administration you did 
not know anybody in the administration. Could you tell us why you 
were interested in making contributions of $1 million, $2 million, or 
such large amounts for tlie President? Had you changed party 
affiliation? 
Mr. Parr. Not me. No, I hadn't. 

Mr. Weitz. IVliat was the purpose or the reason, as you under- 
stood it, for wanting to contribute those amounts of money to the 
President ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, it was my firm belief that the agricultural com- 
munity has, for whate^-er reason — I do not know what reason, be- 
cause it v/as misunderstood or what have you — never participated in 
Government fully. Every other organization was contributing large 
sums of money to Congress and to the Senators and to Presidents, and 
I read about different figures. And we all knew about all this, and we 
wanted to — I think the consensus of opinion was we w^anted to let 
people know that we were, or had availability of these type funds. 
Mr. Weitz. Well, there are lots of ways of doing that. Why did 
you consider contributing so nuicli to one candidate, that is, the 
President ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, at that particular time back in 1969-70, there was 
40-some-odd-thousand-dairy-fa.r)ners in just AMPT and a lot of them 
were contributing $8 a month, and you multiply that and it is quite 
a lot of dollars a month. And two other organizations had political 
trust funds. 

Mr. Weitz. Mid- America and Dairymen, Inc. ? 

Mr. Parr. They had 25,000 dairy farmers, and DI had 10,000. They 
were all set about the same way, and so the real issue was in 1972, the 
Presidential election for 1972, the idea being that the agricultural com- 
munity had been under, through the Government policy, what is 
known in agricultural circles as a cheap food policy — have had support 
prices, but the support price had not only been the floor, it had been 
the ceiling. And we saw in the case of dairying tJiat dairy farmere were 
going out at an alarming rate. T have forgotten how many dairy 
farmers we lost, but I mean, it had just gone down drastically. And 
one of the reasons has been the Government ])olicies. 

Mr. Weitz. Was the purpose, then, for these contributions to gain 
a more favorable policy or policies from the Federal Government? 

Mr. Parr. In my opinion, the reason for it was to get so that we 
could visit with Congressmen, Senators, Presidents, to give us an op- 



6787 

portnnity to present our case. And we looked at what other organiza- 
tions liad done and how they had performed, and ao:ricnUurc was the 
lowest down on the totem pole, so there must be some correlation be- 
tween political power, if you ]5leasc, and being involved actively as 
labor and others have been, and wo had not done that before into the 
IDGO's. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you feel that if you did not make contributions, 
substantial contributions, perhaps of the magnitude that you were 
discussing, that you would not have an opportunity to either have 
access to the administration or influence Government policy in any 
way ? 

Air. Parr. This was a new frontier to us, and I think the consistent 
opinion was that nobody liad a book to go by, and we were just doing 
the l^est we could as to what we were trying to accomplish at that 
time. 

Mr. Weitz. By making such contributions, did you feel that that 
would ]iermit you to have access and influence Government policy? 

Mr. Parr. Well, I have heard of people who say they have friends, 
and you hear about Congressman so and so is a friend of so-and-so type 
business, and another Congressman is a friend of so-and-so type of 
business, and generally when you look back you find the reason being 
that for some reason they have been supporting them or not supporting 
them, according to the way they have been voting, their interests and 
what have you. 

Mr. Weitz. Including contributions? . 
Mr. Parr. I guess so. 

Mr. Weitz. Did there come a time in 1970 when you met with 
^Ir. Kalmbach, Mr. Colson and Mr. Tom Evans to discuss contribu- 
tions? 

Mr. Parr. I don't know when it was. 
Mr. Weitz. Was it in 1970, do you recall ? 
Mr. Parr. I don't recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you attend that meeting just after having come 
from a meeting with the Secretai-y of Agriculture with Mr. Nelson 
and INfr. Harrison ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't recall that. 

Mr. Weitz. '\\Tio Avas present at that meeting, the meeting of Mr. 
Evans and Mr. Colson and Mr. Kalmbach? Anyone else in addition 
to yourself ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't remember. 
Mr. Weitz. Was Mr. Nelson there ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't remember whether ]\Ir. Colson was there or not. 
Mr. Weitz Mr. Evans was there ? 
Mr. Parr. I remember Mr. Evans was. 
Mr. WEiTz.Was tliat tlie first time you met liim ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't remember the first time I ever met him. T don't 
know what date it was. Rut I did meet a Mr. Evans. 
Mr. Weitz. At that meeting? 
Mr. Parr. At a meeting. I don't know when it was. 
Mr. Weitz. And you recall him being at this particular meeting 
with INIr. Kalmbach or at a meeting with Mr. Kalmbach and, or at least 
with Mr. Kalmbach and yourself ? 

Mr. Parr. I can't get Mr. Kalmbach and Mr. Evans at the same 
meeting. 



6788 

Mr. Weitz. You don't remember meeting: with the two of them ? 

Mr. Parr. At the same time, no. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you remember meetino; Mr. Evans in some meeting? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And you were there, you recall. Were there any other 
attendance ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't know when it was, Mr. Weitz. T believe Mr. Hil- 
linofs was there, Mr. Harrison, Mr. Nelson, Mr. Evans, and myself. 

Mr. Weitz. And what was the purpose of the meeting? 

Mr. Parr. That was discussions of these committees. 

Mr. Weitz. What committees? 

Mr. Parr. The ones that were made in 1971, as I recall. 

Mr. Weitz. Was the purpose to discuss contributions to the Presi- 
dent? 

Mr, Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Through multiple committees to receive such contribu- 
tions? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz, Was this the first such meeting you attended at which 
multiple committees or committees had been discussed with relation to 
Presidential contributions ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. I just don't remember. I think so. We met one time 
with Mr. — I guess the meeting you described with those people, and 
another time I met with INIr. Kalmbach. T met him with Mr. Oolson. 

Mr. Weitz. So you remember at least two meetings, in which Mr. 
Kalmbach and Mr. Colson were there, and one in which Mr. Evans 
was there with Mr. Hillings and Mr. Harrison. 

And the purpose of these meetings, both meetings, was to discuss 
organizational committees for contributions ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr, Weitz. How many committees were envisioned ? ^^^lat were you 
talking about? 

Mr. Parr. I have forgotten how many there were. 

Mr. Weitz. 100 ? More than 100 ? Several hundred ? 

Mr. Parr. I think it was 100. I just don't remember the number. I 
know there was quite a discussion about — Mr. Nelson had quite a lot 
of discussion with him about the committees. T just don't remember 
what the- 

Mr. Weitz. Wliat was the purpose of having committees? Were 
they representing different candidates or just one candidate? 

Mr. Parr. They were all from one party. 

Mr. Weitz. The President in particular? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr, Weitz, And what was in the need for varioiLS committees? 

Mr, Parr. I just don't remember. That was — whether it was some- 
thing 

Mr. Weitz, Were you familiar at that time with the Corrupt Prac- 
tices Act ? 

Mr, Parr. What is that ? 

Mr. Weitz. Have you ever heard of it, the Federal Corrupt Prac- 
tices Act, relating to political contributions? 

Mr. Parr. I guess T have, but that name doesn't ring a bell with me. 



6789 

Mr. Weitz. Do you Imow when someone wants to give more than 
$5^000 — were you aware at that time of the need to have more than one 
committee receive such funds for it to comply with the law ? 

Mr. Parr. AVhen something like that occurred— INIr. Nelson, being 
an attorney — that did not mean anything to me. 

Mr. Weitz. How nuich money was being discussed ? How large were 
the contributions that were being planned ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't know whether I remember exactly or not. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it related to your, or consistent with your earlier 
meetings where $1 million or $2\nillion had been mentioned? 

Was that the magnitude that was contemplated ? 

Mr. Parr. I just don't recall whethei- there was ever any exact 
amount mentioned or not mentioned. 

Mr. Weitz. But it was substantial 't 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. What was the purpose in 1970, when the election was 
2 years away ? 

"Mr. Parr. Well, I didn't think this was— what I am talking about is 
in 1971. 

Mr. Weitz. I see, the meetings with Mr. Evans? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. That was the first time you ever met him, as I recall ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. AVeitz. How about the meeting you described between Mr. 
Colson, Kalmbach, and you? 

Mr. Parr. That was 1972. 

Mr. Weitz. The meetings you recall were in 1972 ? 

Mr. Parr. You asked me about another meeting there with Mr. 
Gleason, I believe, didn't you ? 

Mr. Weitz. T believe previously we had— that was with regard to 
senatorial campaigns. But with regard to the Presidential campaign, 
your recollection is these meetings were in 1971 ? 

Mr. Parr. I wouldn't be absolutely sure about that. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it after the 1970 election ? 

Mr. Parr. That slips by me. I just don't know when it was. 

IVIr. Weitz. Just one final area before we recess this evening. Let 
me show you exhibit No. 1 to the Nelson deposition,* which is a copy 
of a letter, dated December 16, 1970, fi-om Pat Hillings to the Presi- 
dent. Have you ever seen a copy of that letter? Have you ever heard of, 
or other than what you have seen in the papers, or seen the letter? 
I want to ask you about some particular paragraph. If you don't 
remember the letter I can still ask you about it. Do you remember 
the letter? 

Mr. Parr. I never saw that letter until I heard about it in the 
newspapers. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, the letter refers to the fact that AMPI contributed 
about $135,000 to Republican candidates in the 1970 election. Is that 
in connection with the meetings that vou had with Mr. Colson and 
Gleason in 1970? 

Mr. Parr. I believe so. Yes, sir. 

♦See p. 6701. 



6790 

Mr. Weitz. It ^oes on to say, "We are now working: with Tom 
Evans and Herb Kalmbacli in setting up appropriate channels for 
AMPI to contribute $2 million for your reelection.'' This is addressed 
to the President. 

Does that refresh your recollection as to any meetings or conversa- 
tions you were aware of at that point, prior to that, with respect to 
contributions through Tom Evans and Herb Kalmbach ? 

Mr. Pare. The Evans name — I met Mr. Evans, as I recall, at the 
Madison Hotel. But I don't exactly remember the time we met him. 

Mr. Weitz. But the time you met with Mr. Evans, whether it was 
before or aft^r this meeting, was with respect to making substantial 
contributions to multiple committees to the President? 

Mr. Parr. We were talking about the committees. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Was that the first time that you understood these gentle- 
men had come together and discussed this with you and INIr. Nelson and 
so forth, that meeting? 

Mr. Parr. Well, I did not know him. 

Mr. Weitz. And then it goes on finally to say, "AMPI also is fund- 
ing a special project." 

Mr. Parr. I don't know what that is. 

Mr. Weitz. Have you ever heard that terminology ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you know of any special projects, for example, that 
Mr. Colson had asked AMPI to organize for him? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir, I didn't. 

Mr. Weitz. Finally, are you aware of whether Mr, Evans ever pro- 
duced any committees to receive contributions ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir, I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know whether Mr. Kalmbach did ? 

Mr. Parr. I don't know how that- 

Mr. Weitz. Committees were ultimately produced, but you are not 
clear whether Mr. Evans was in any way associated with that? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir, I don't know how it was. 

Mr. Weitz. Is it your understanding of the committees that we will 
discuss tomorrow, that they were introduced in 1971, related back in 
some way to these meetings that you attended, discussing committees 
and contributions? 

Mr. Parr. I didn't quite get that question. 

Mr. Weitz. Ultimately, committees were produced in 1971 which 
received contributions from the dairy trusts for the President's re- 
election ? ' 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Is it your understanding that those committees were the 
result of the efforts that came out of some of the meetings that you 
attended, or were the same committees that essentially were discussed 
at the meetings that you attended with Mr. Kalmbach and Mr. Evans 
and Mr. Colson? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Well, we will recess until tomorrow morning. 

[Whereupon, at 7:40 p.m., the hearing in the above-entitled matter 
was recessed, to reconvene at 8 a.m., Friday, December 21, 1973.] 



FRIDAY, DECEMBER 21, 1973 

U.S. Senate, 
Select Committee on 
Presidential Campaign Activities, 

Washington, D.O. 
The Select Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 8 :15 a.m., in room 
G-334, Dirksen Senate Office Building. 

Present: David Dorsen and James Hamilton, assistant chief coun- 
sels; Alan Weitz, assistant majority counsel; and Donald Sanders, 
deputy minority counsel. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Parr, just to clear up one matter we talked about 
yesterday, before I move on, I believe you referred yesterday to a 
$5,000 payment which you received from Mr. Jacobsen in the Austin 
airport, and you were not certain for what purpose you received that 
money. Is that correct ? 

TESTIMONY OF DAVID L. PARR— Resumed 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do 3^ou recall now what it was for ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, on page 6430 of Mr. Jacobsen's testimony on Fri- 
day, December 14 of this year, Mr. Jacobsen was asked the following : 

"Did you ever deliver any money in cash or otherwise or whatever 
form to Mr. Parr for Wilbur Mills' campaign ?" 

And on that page the response is, from Mr. Jacobsen : "I know what 
you are talking about. I refreshed my memory. Yes, I delivered $5,000 
to David Parr for Wilbur Mills." And this, he indicates, was at the 
Austin airport. It was $5,000 in cash in an envelope. 

Mr. Parr. Did he say what date that was ? 

Mr. Weitz. No, he does not recall either. Does that refresh your 
recollection as to the purpose of the payment from Mr. Jacobsen to 
you? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, but it does not — I do not know whether that is the 
one — Lilly or Jacobsen. 

Mr. Weitz. On page 6431 1 ask him : "Can we place it by year?" He 
said: "No, I really cannot. It was during Mr. Mills' Presidential 
ambitions." 

My question : "So probably either 1971 or 1972, is that correct? Mr. 
Jacobsen : 'Yes'." 

Does that help you in any way? 

Mr. Parr. No. I would be glad to state that I know it went to a cam- 
paign, but I just do not know which one. 

Mr. Weitz. Did there come a time in 1970, when AMPI attempted 
to have the President attend its first annual convention ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

(6791) 



30-337 (book 15) O - 74 - 27 



6792 

Mr. Weitz. Who was involved in contacting the administration or 
trying to obtain the President's attendance ? 

Mr Parr. Do you mean from the dairy industry, by AMPI? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Parr. Mr. Nelson and I. 

Mr. Weitz. Who did you contact in that reg.ard ? 

Mr. Parr. We were working through Mr. Harrison, our attorney. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, you had met, I believe you testified, with Mr. Col- 
son three or four times. In any of those meetings, did you discuss the 
President coming to your convention ? 

Mr. Parr. I am sure we could have. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you ever present any written paper ? I know earlier 
yesterday we identified exhibit No. 2* with reference to an invitation 
to the President from Mr. Nelson in 1969. Was there any similar docu- 
ment or summary that you recall was prepared and delivered to any- 
one in the administration in connection with that invitation in 1970? 

Mr. Parr. I do not recall exactly, Mr. Weitz. There could have been. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Colson, at that time when you discussed these mat- 
ters, was he aware of your intentions and either past or present efforts 
to support the President, or support the Republican Party, for ex- 
ample, in connection with the senatorial campaign in 1970 and other 
matters ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, I just do not know whether he was or not. 

Mr. Weitz. But you have indicated to us that you did discuss with 
Mr. Colson from time to time, for example, your interest in contribut- 
ing substantial amounts to the President's reelection, is that correct? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know what Mr. Colson or anyone else in the 
administration did, or who they talked to in connection with having 
the President attend your convention ? 

Mr. Parr. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Did the President attend your convention ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Secretary Hardin attend your convention ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you speak to him, or do you know if anyone on 
behalf of AMPI spoke to him about that ? 

Mr. Parr. About Mr. Hardin's going ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Parr. No, I did not go to the convention. 

Mr. Weitz. In 1970? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. I personally did not go. 

Mr. Weitz. Were you aware of the arrangements to have the Secre- 
tary attend the convention ? 

Mr. Parr. It seems to me that Mr. Hardin and Mr. Campbell went 
at the last minute in 1970. The school milk program in 1970 was not 
funded until about Labor Day. About the same time — well, in fact 
it was announced at that annual meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. And was that a program that AMPI was interested in? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, all 

Mr. Weitz. Dairy farmers ? 

Mr. Parr. All dairy farmers. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it the Secretary who made the announcement? 



6793 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And was the announcement that the program would 
be continued ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it expanded from the previous year ? 

Mr. Parr. I do not recall. About the same dollar amount. 

Mr. Weitz. Had you discussed that matter previously with anyone 
in the Department of Agriculture, or anyone at the White House? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. You were pressing for a renewal of the program ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. It had been a longstanding program. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss that with Mr. Colson ? 

Mr. Parr. I do not recall whether I discussed it with Colson or not. 

It was highly unusual for the administration — for school to be 
starting without the school milk program being funded. That is what 
was happening. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Secretary Hardin announce it at the meeting, or 
was it just announced at that time that it was instituted, or the program 
was renewed ? 

Mr. Parr. No, it was announced at that meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. By whom ? 

Mr. Parr. Mr. Hardin, as I understand it. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. Were you aware whether President Nixon talked 
by telephone with Mr. Nelson at the convention ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know how that came about? 

Mr. Parr. Do you mean who arranged it ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. 

Mr. Parr. No, I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you know what they discussed ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. How did you know of the phone call ? 

Mr. Parr. It was just general knowledge that he got called. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Nelson ever discuss it with you specifically ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, I think — I am sure that he did. It was quite a 
highlight to get a call from the President on the telephone from Cali- 
fornia, but I do not remember anything specific about it other than 
just calling. 

Mr. Weitz. Shortly after that convention and phone call, did you 
and Mr. Nelson meet with the President in the White House ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Was anyone else present at the time of that meeting? 

Mr. Gibson. Could we take a break here just one second ? 

Mr. Weitz. Off the record. 

[Discussion off the record.] 

Mr. Weitz. Back on the record. 

I believe I had asked you whether you knew how the meeting with 
the President, yourself, and Mr. Nelson, shortly after the 1970 con- 
vention, came about ? 

Mr. Parr. I got the call, I believe, on a Sunday. I do not remember 
who I got the call from. But the President wanted to see Mr. Nelson 
and I on Wednesday, I believe it was. following the annual meeting. 



6794 

Mr. Weitz. Was this about a week after the meeting — the conven- 
tion? 

Mr. Parr. This was from the weekend to Wednesday. 

Mr. Weitz. But the meeting with the President was what — approxi- 
mately 1 week or 2 after the annual convention ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. From the weekend. 

Mr. Weitz. Just several days ? 

Mr. Parr. Like Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Wednesday. 

Mr. Weitz. I see. Who contacted you ? 

Mr. Parr. I said I do not remember. 

Mr. Weitz. Was it Mr. Nelson ? 

Mr. Parr. It could have been. I mean, I just do not remember. 

Mr. Weitz. What was the purpose of the meeting? 

Mr. Parr. Well, we had been trying to see the iPresident ever since 
he got in office. 

Mr. Weitz. Through Mr. Colson and others ? 

Mr. Parr. Mr. Harrison, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And was this to present to the President, or describe to 
him matters of interest to you ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. What matters would then have been of interest to you, 
do you recall ? 

Mr. Parr. In other words, what dairy farmers were trying to do 
by their cooperatives; their intentions of trying to get themselves 
out of GoveiTiment ; not to depend on Government; acquaint them 
with the various and sundry types of ways this could be done. In 
other words, give him a general view of the dairy industry and the 
problems attached to it. 

Mr. Weitz. Would it include particular problems, such as, would 
you want to refer to import quota problems ? 

Mr. Parr. Imports. 

Mr. Weitz. Price supports? 

Mr. Parr. Price supports, school milk programs. 

Mr. Weitz. You mentioned the school milk program. I just wanted 
to ask you. 

Mr. Parr. Yes? 

Mr. Weitz. Before the issuance of that announcement order in Sep- 
tember at the convention by Secretary Hardin, do you recall who else 
you spoke to? You said you spoke to Mr. Colson about it. Who else 
did you speak to ? 

Mr. Parr. T am sure we spoke to Mr. Hardin. We had talked. I am 
sure this was an industrywide problem. The entire dairy industry was 
quite alarmed at this not being done. I am sure that we had talked 
to Congressmen, Senators. 

Mr. Weitz. Besides the beneficial effect, or possible beneficial effect 
to schoolchildren as a result of the school program, can you estimate 
what amount of money or Federal subsidies were involved, or income 
to dairy farmers that were related to these school lunch programs? 

Mr. Parr. Well, the school milk program is a very universal pro- 
gram for the consumers, tlie schoolchildren, and everyone. It has just 
been a very fine program for farmers and schoolchildren. I believe the 
funding of the bill is about $100 million. I think it has been going on 
since the 1950's — three or four, I believe. 



6795 

Mr. Weitz. But it has to bo reinstituted or renewed every year by 
the administration ? 

Mr. Parr. I believe that is correct. 

Mr. "Weitz. And you were concerned that it had not been by the 
time of the annual convention? 

Mr. Parr. School was opening, and I believe it was not funded, not 
appropriated. Funded, I believe that's what it was. 

Mr. Weitz. I believe you said that at one time or another you had 
met with Harry Dent in the White House, and also Jack Gleason? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. "Weitz. Do you recall discussine; this matter of the school lunch 
program with them at any time? 

Mr. Parr. Well. I just cannot remember specifically Avhat we talked 
about to each individual there. 

Mr. Weitz. How about Mr. Chotiner? Do you remember meeting: 
him and discussing; either this or other dairv problems with him in 
the Whito House? 

Mr. Parr. Any time we Avere in the White House Ave were trying to 
talk to them about dairv problems. 

Mr. Weitz. Mr. Chotiner? 

Mr. Parr. INIr. Dent, Mr. Gleason, or Mr. Chotiner. Anybody. 

Mr. Weitz. Vou had met him while he was in the White House ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And do you remember discussing dairy problems with 
him? 

Mr. Parr. I am sure. 

Mr. Weitz. Was anyone else at the "N^Hiite House that you recall that 
you talked to about this program ? 

Mr. Parr. That we ever met? 

Mr. Weitz. About the school lunch program. 

Mr. Parr. I do not remember particularly talking to them, Mr. 
Weitz. about the school milk program per se, because it was just — 
these things would come up from time to time. 

Mr. Weitz. How about Henry Cashen ? 

ISIr. Parr. I do not know whether I talked to him about it or not 
either. 

Mr. Weitz. These are people that you talked to at the White House 
at one time or another about dairy problems? 

Mr. Parr. That is correct. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you have any idea or understanding as to why the 
program had not been reinstituted or the announcement that you were 
Avaitincf for made l^efore that meeting, before the convention? 

Mr. Parr. No, I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. Was there an attempt to cut it back or — do you have any 
idea why it was held up, why it Avas made so late that year ? 

Mr. Parr. No. I do not. 

Mr. Weitz. What Avas the substance of your discussion Avitli people 
about it? Were you just saving, "When is it going to come out," or 
were you debating substantive points Avith them about the program, 
Avhether it should be reinstituted and at Avhat level ? 

]\Ir. Parr. I do not recall all of the particular areas of it. I just know 
that school Avas about to open and it Avas not funded. I believe the cor- 
rect Avord is "funding." 



6796 

Mr. Weitz. You did meet with the President and Mr. Nelson in 
September of 1970? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. At the White House? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. Was anyone else present that you recall ? 

Mr. Parr. I believe Mr. Colson was there. 

Mr. Weitz. Anyone else ? Mr. Cashen ? 

Mr. Parr. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did Mr. Colson brin^ you in to meet the President ? 

Mr. Parr. I believe that would be correct. 

Mr. Weitz. This was the first time that you met with the President? 

Mr. Parr. President Nixon, yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Yes ? 

Mr. Parr. [Nods in the affirmative.] 

Mr. Weitz. What was discussed ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, Mr. Nixon — do you mean to tell you the discus- 
sion ? 

Mr. Weitz. Yes. Who said what ? 

Mr. Parr. Well, Mr. Nixon said — the first thing: we did was to get 
our picture taken with him. 

Mr. Weitz. Just the three of you ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Not Mr. Colson ? 

Mr. Parr. No. And the second thing that happened, he got on his 
yellow cabinet and we all sat down and he said, "You people must have 
a real good organization. I have heard some very good things about 
it. I know that you tried every way in the world to get me to come, 
and I understand that you had a successful meeting. And when is 
your next one? I want to be there." I believe was the right word. And 
I believe we told him that our next one would of course be 1971, and 
that we did not really want him to come. 

Then he said, "Well, I do not understand that." 

We said, "We want you to come in 1972, and we will have it in 
Los Angeles, and we will have it in the coliseum, and we will have 
100,000 people. And if you don't come we'll get the Democrat." 

And that's when he said, "No, I want to come in 1971." 

Now, we were sort of joshing with him then. 

Mr. Weitz. In fact, you hoped he would come to your 1971 conven- 
tion, did you not? 

Mr. Parr. Well 

Mr. Weitz. You would have taken liim any time, would you not 
have? 

Mr. Parr. Certainly. Oh, certainly. And in 1972 we could have had 
quite a number of people at our meeting. 

Mr. Weitz. You mentioned that because you were trying to impress 
him with the growth of the organization ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. Of course, we were not thinking about California, 
really, and said so. 

Mr. Weitz. But you were actually thinking about a meeting in Chi- 
cago in 1971 with upward of 30.000 and 40,000 people? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. You told him that ? 



6797 

Mr. Parr. I am sure that we did. And then he said something about, 
he would like to meet with our leaders later on, get to know our farm- 
ers better, and to work with Secretary Hardin on getting a meeting 
set up. 

Mr. Weitz. He was or you ^yere to work with him ? 
Mr. Parr, He told us to talk to Secretary Hardin, as I recall it, and 
remind him. Well, anyway, to get a meeting arranged between then 
and early 1971. 

Mr. Weitz. This was in September, so sometime in the next 3 or 4 
months ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. He said sometime around the first of the year, as I 
recall his statement. I mean, he has got a tape, so I guess we will hear 
about it if you ever get it. I did not know we w^ere being taped at the 
time. 

Mr. Weitz. Where was the meeting held? 

Mr. Parr. In his 

Mr. Weitz. In the Oval Office ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. The meeting lasted about 15 minutes. 
Mr. Weitz. Did he stand by his desk during the entire meeting, or 
did you meet, or sit away from the desk ? 

Mr. Parr. He sat behind his desk and we sat in front of his desk. 
Mr. Weitz. I see. 

Mr. Parr. He also congratulated us on having a growing organiza- 
tion. And that was about all I recall he said. 

Mr. Weitz. Do you have any idea who gave him the information 
that he knew of concerning your organization, its growth, its size, its 
activity ? 

Mr. Parr. No ; I am not sure who gave it to him. 
Mr. Weitz. You had given that information to Mr. Oolson, among 
others, though? 
Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And he had come into the room and introduced you to 
the President? 
Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. And I believe you had also discussed your interest in 
supporting the President by contributions and otherwise with Mr. 
Colson, is that correct ? 
Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss that with the President directly? 
Mr. Parr. No. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you say, "We are big supporters of you and we want 
you to know we want to support you" ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes ; I am sure we did that, because we faced up to the 
facts that he was very popular out in the Midwest. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you discuss any problems or substantive policies 
with him, dairy policies, dairy problems? 

Mr. Parr. Well, I think we were there about 15 or 20 minutes, and 
we tried to give him a bird's-eye view of the cooperative, of what milk 
was. And I just do not remember all of the discussion we had. In other 
words, it was a very light -veined type of discussion. It was the first 
time we had ever seen him, the first time I had ever seen him. 

Mr. Weitz. He appeared knowledgeable, though, about your organi- 
zation and activities? 



6798 

Mr. Parr. He complimented us on the type of organization we had. 

Mr. Weitz. So apparently he had been informed of what you were 
doing and what the organization was ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes, sir. I guess so. 

Mr. Weitz. After that meeting, did you have any meetings with Mr. 
Colson in the fall, by the end of the year, about setting up a meeting 
with the President and other dairy leaders ? 

Mr. Parr. I have forgotten how we proceeded to this, when I first 
knew we were going to have a meeting with the President. But it seems 
to me it was sometime in January that Mr. Harrison visited with the 
administration people, told him about what the President had said. 
I believe Mr. Harrison was continuing to follow up on the meeting 
with the President. Then it seemed that it was sometime in January. 

Mr. Weitz. 1971 ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes ; that the meeting was getting close at hand, or some- 
thing of that nature. I am not positive about that, but it seemed like 
that. 

Mr. Weitz. Now, in the fall — ^I think we showed you the Hillings 
letter of December 16 yesterday, and that referred to the question of 
import quotas. Were you aware of an eifort by AMPI and other dairy 
people to obtain la decrease in import quotas in 1970 ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did you meet or discuss that mat.ter with anyone in the 
administration ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Who did you meet with? 

Mr. Parr. Met with Mr. Cashen, Mr. Colson. Of course, we met 
with the people at Agriculture. 

Mr. Weitz. Would that include the Secretary and Under Secretary, 
Hardin and Campbell ? 

Mr. Parr. Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. How about Mr. Chotiner? 

Mr. Parr. I do not remember whether we met with Mr. Chotiner on 
that or not. You never knew. I mean, at least I never knew. We would 
try to, when we had a problem, the first thinor we would do is to con- 
tact Mr. Harrison, and from there we would try to get to a point 
where somebody, either at the White House, because it seemed like 
more and more decisions are made at the Wliite House than they are 
at Agriculture. I mean, you talk to somebody down in the dairy 
branch, and he said, "I'd love to help you, but you have got to talk to 
the people across the street." You go to the people across the street — 
and that's the top brass in Agriculture — they say, "We'd love to help 
you. We understand your problem. But you have to go across the 
street again," And then it goes to umpteen different bureaus. That is 
the way it worked. 

Mr, Weitz, You felt that you could try to short circuit that process 
if you could talk to someone in the Wliite House ? 

Mr, Parr. We thought we could touch all the people who made de- 
cisions, so they could all underetand wliat we were talking about. And 
we found that one of the biggest problems that we all have in Wash- 
ington, the farm community, Avas to be understood, what this does or 
does not do, 

Mr, Weitz. ITltimately, the President did issue a proclamation with 
regard to import quotas in 1970 ? 



6799 

Mr. Parr, Yes. 

Mr. Weitz. Did that generally accord with the requests of the dairy 
people ? Did it satisfy you ? 

Mr. Parr. No, sir. Well, it was better than what we may be facing, 
but— 

Mr, Weitz. It did not go far enough ? 
Mr. Parr. No, sir. 

Mr. Weitz. But it was an improvement over, from your point of 
A'iew. of then-existing levels? 

jNIr. Parr. Yes ; I would say so. Yes. 

INIr. Weitz. Do you recall any specific meetings or conversations that 
you either attended or were told about with people in the administra- 
tion or the White House with respect to the import quota question? 
Mr. Parr. No ; I do not remember any specific — all we wanted was 
for them to be familiar with the statistics as to what poun