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+ T. E. PAGE, C.H., urr.D. / 
E. CAPPS, PH.D., LL.D. W. H. D. ROUSE, utt.d. 




PAUL SHOREY, Ph.D., LL.D., Lrrr.D. 










First printed 1930 
Revised and Reprinted 1937 


Printed in Great Britain 



Introduction ^,jj 

The Text ...... xlv 

The Translation jjjj 

Book I. 

Book II. 
Book III. 
Book IV. 
Book V. 






Analyses of the Republic abound." The object of 
this sketch is not to follow all the windings of its 
ideas, but to indicate sufficiently their literary frame- 
work and setting. Socrates speaks in the first person, 
as in the Charmides and the Lysis. He relates to 
Critias, Timaeus, Hermocrates, and an unnamed 
fourth person, as we learn from the introduction of 
the Timaeus, a conversation which took place " yester- 
day " at the Peiraeus. The narrative falls on the 
day of the Lesser Panathenaea, and its scene, like 
that of the Timaeus, Proclus affirms to be the city 
or the Acropolis, a more suitable place, he thinks, 
for the quieter theme and the fit audience but few 
than the noisy seaport, apt symbol of Socrates' 
contention with the sophists.* 

The Timaeus, composed some time later than the 
Republic, is by an afterthought represented as its 

* Jowett, Dialogues of Plato, vol. iii. pp. xvi-clvii ; Grote'a 
P/a<o, vol. iv. pp. 1-94: Gomperz, Greek Thinkers, iii. pp. 
54-105 ; William Boyd, An Introduction to the Republic of 
Plato, London, 1904, pp. 196 flF. ; Richard Lewis Nettleship, 
Lectures on the Republic o/ P/a<o, Ix)ndon, 1904; Ueberwe^- 
Praechter, Geschichte der PhiJosophie, Altertum, pp. 231-234 
and 269-279 ; Wilamowitz, Platan^ i. pp. 393-449 ; etc. 

» Cf. Proclus, In Rem P. vol. i. p. 17. 3 KrolL Of. also 
Laws, 705 A. 

VOL. I b Vii 


sequel. And the Republic, Timaeus, and unfinished 
Critias constitute the first of the " trilogies " in 
which Aristophanes of Byzantium arranged the 
Platonic dialogues." The Timaeus accordingly opens 
with a brief recapitulation of the main political and 
social features of the Republic. But nothing can be 
inferred from the variations of this slight summary.*' 

The dramatic date of the dialogue is plausibly 
assigned by Boeckh '^ to the year 411 or 410.'* Proof 
is impossible because Plato admits anachronisms in 
his dramas.* 

Socrates tells how he went down to the Peiraeus 
to attend the new festival of the Thracian Artemis, 
Bendis/ and, turning homewards, was detained by 

" Cf. Diogenes Laertius, iii. 61, and Zeller, Philosophie 
der Griechen*, vol. ii. pt. i. pp. 494 f., n. 2. 

" Proclus tries to show that the points selected for em- 
phasis are those which prefigure the constitution and govern- 
ment of the universe by the Creator (In Tim. 17 e-f). His 
reasoning is differently presented but hardly more fantastic 
than that of modern critics who endeavour to determine by 
this means the original design or order of publication of the 
parts of the Rep^iblic. Cf. further Taylor, Plato, p. 264, n. 2. 

" Kleine Schriften, iv. pp. 437 ff., especially 448. 

** A. E. Taylor, Plato, p. 263, n. 1, argues that this is the 
worst of all possible dates. 

' Cf. Jowett and Campbell, vol. iii. pp. 2-3 ; Zeller, 
vol. ii. pt. i. p. 489. Arguments are based on the circum- 
stances of the family of Lysias, the presumable age of 
Socrates, Glaucon, Adeimantus and Thrasymachus, and the 
extreme old age of Sophocles. 

f The religion of Bendis may have been known at Athens 
as early as Cratinus's Thraitfai {4'iS B.C.), Kock, Fragmenfa, 
i. 34. Mommsen, Fe.ste der Stadt Athen, p. 490, cites 
inscriptions to prove its establishment in Attica as early as 
429-428 B.C. But he thinks Plato's " inasmuch as this was 
the first celebration " may refer to special ceremonies first 
instituted circa 411 b.c. 


a group of friends who took him to the house of 
Polemarchus, brother of the orator Lysias." A goodly 
company was assembled there, Lysias and a younger 
brother Euthydemus — yea, and Thrasymachus of 
Chalcedon,* Charmantides of the deme Paiania,'' 
Cleitophon,'* and conspicuous among them the 
venerable Cephalus, cro^\•ned from a recent sacrifice 
and a prefiguring t\"pe of the happy old age of the 
just man.* A conversation springs up which Socrates 
guides to an inquiry into the definition and nature y 
of justice (330 d, 331 c, 332 b) and to the conclusion 
that the conventional Greek formula, " Help your 
friends and harm your enemies," cannot be right 
(335 E-336 a), since it is not the function (epyov, 335 d) 
of the good man to do evil to any. The sophist 

" See Lysias in any classical dictionary. He returned to 
Athens from Thurii circa 413 b.c. Polemarchus was the older 
brother. He was a student of philosophy {Phaedr. 257 b). 
Whether he lived with Cephalus or Cephalus with him cannot 
be inferred with certainty. Lysias perhaps had a separate 
house at the Peiraeus (c/. Phaedr. 227 b). The family owned 
three houses in 404 B.C. (Lysias, Or. 12. lS),andBlass{Attische 
Beredsamkeit, i. p. 347) infers from Lysias, 12. 16 that Polem- 
archus resided at Athens. Lysias takes no part in the 
conversation. He was no philosopher {^Phaedr. 257 b). 

* A noted sophist and rhetorician. Cf. Phaedr. 266 c, 
Zeller*, i. pp. 1321 ff. ; Blass, Attische Beredsamkeit^, i. pp. 
244-258; Sidgwick, Jc-Mrn. o/ PA//. (English), v. pp. 78-79, 
who denies that Thrasymachus was, properly speaking, a 
sophist ; Diels, Fragmented, ii. pp. 276-282. 

' Blass, op. cit. ii. p. 19. 

'* Apparently a partisan of Thrasymachus. His name is 
given to a short, probably spurious, dialogue, of which the 
main thought is that Socrates, though excellent in exhorta- 
tion or protreptic, is totally lacking in a positive and 
coherent philosophy. Grote and others have conjectured it 
to be a discarded introduction to the Republic. 

• Cf. 329 D, 331 A with 613 b-c 


Thrasymachus, intervening brutally (336 b), affirms 
the immoralist thesis that j ustice is only the advantage 
of the (politically) stronger, and with humorous 
dramatic touches of character-portrayal is finally 
silenced (350 c-d), much as Callicles is refuted in the 
Gorgias. The conclusion, in the manner of the minor 
dialogues, is that Socrates knows nothing (354 c). 
For since he does not know what justice is, he cannot 
a fortiori determine the larger question raised by 
Thrasymachus 's later contention (352 d), whether the 
just life or the unjust life is the happier. 

Either the first half or the whole of this book 
detached would be a plausible companion to such 
dialogues as the Charmides and Laches, which deal 
in similar manner with two other cardinal virtues, 
temperance and bravery. It is an easy but idle 
and unverifiable conjecture that it was in Plato's 
original intention composed as a separate work, 
perhaps a discarded sketch for the Gorgias, and only 
by an afterthought became an introduction for the 
Republic.'* It is now an excellent introduction and 
not, in view of the extent of the Republic, dis- 
proportionate in length. That is all we know or 
can know. 

The second book opens with what Mill describes 
as a " monument of the essential fairness of Plato's 
mind " ^ — a powerful restatement of the theory of 
Thrasymachus by the brothers of Plato, Glaucon 
and Adeimantus. They are not content with the 
dialectic that reduced Thrasymachus to silence (358 b). 
They demand a demonstration which will convince 
the youth hesitating at the cross-roads of virtue and 

" Cf. infra, p. xxv, note 6. 
' Cf. Dissertations and Discussions, vol. iv. p. 311. 


vice (365 a-b) " that it is really and intrinsically better 
to be than to seem just.** 

It is Plato's method always to restate a satirized 
and controverted doctrine in its most plausible form 
before proceeding to a definitive refutation. '^ As he 
himself says in the Phaedrus (272 c), " it is right to 
give the wolf too a hearincr." 

It is also characteristic of Plato that he prefers to 
put the strongest statement of the sophistic, im- 
moralist, Machiavellian, Hobbesian, Nietzschean 
political ethics in the mouths of speakers who are 
themselves on the side of the angels. ** There is this 
historical justification of the procedure, that there 
exists not a shred of evidence that any contemporary 
or predecessor of Plato could state any of their 
theories which he assailed as well, as fully, as 
coherently, as systematically, as he has done it for 

In response to the challenge of Glaucon and 
Adeimantus, Socrates proposes to study the nature 
of justice and injustice wTit large in the larger 
organism of the state, and to test the conceptions 
so won by their application to the individual also 
(368 E, 369 a). Plato, though he freely employs 

• Cf. my Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 25, n. 164. 

" Cf. 362 A with 367 e. 

« Cf. my Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 8 : ... the 
elaborate refutations which Plato thinks fit to give of the 
crudest form of hostile theories sometimes produce an 
impression of unfairness upon modern critics. They forget 
two things : First, that he always goes on to restate the 
theory and refute its fair meaning ; second, that in the case 
of many doctrines combated by Plato there is no evidence 
that they were ever formulated with the proper logical 
qualifications except by himself." 

" Cf. 368 A-B. 


metaphor, symbolism, and myth, never bases his 
argument on them." The figurative language here, 
as elsewhere, serves as a transition to, a framework 
for, an illustration of, the argument. Man is a social 
and political animal, and nothing but abstract 
dialectics can come of the attempt to isolate his 
psychology and ethics from the political and social 
environment that shapes them.*" The question 
whether the main subject of the Republic is justice 
or the state is, as Proclus already in effect said, a 
logomachy.'' The construction of an ideal state was 
a necessary part of Plato's design, and actually 
occupies the larger part of the Republic. But it is, 
as he repeatedly tells us, logically subordinated to 
the proof that the just is the happy life."* 

It is idle to object that it is not true and cannot 
be proved that righteousness is verifiably happiness. 
The question still interests humanity, and Plato's 
discussion of it, whether it does or does not amount 
to a demonstration, still remains the most instructive 
and suggestive treatment of the theme in all literature. 

There is little profit also in scrutinizing too curiously 
the unity or lack of unity of design in the Republic, the 

" Cf. my review of Barker, " Greek Political Theory," in 
the Philosophical Review, vol. xxix., 1920, p. 86 : " To say (on 
p. 119) that ' by considering the temper of the watchdog 
Plato arrives at the principle,' etc., is to make no allowance 
for Plato's literary art and his humour. Plato never really 
deduces his conclusions from the figurative analogies which 
he uses to illustrate them." 

* Cf., e.g.. Rep. 544 d-e, and infra, p. xxvi. 

' Cf. the long discussion of Stallbaum in his Introduction 
to the Republic, pp. vii-lxv. For Proclus cf. On Rep. p. 349 
(ed. of Kroll, p. 5 and p. 11). 

"* Cf. 352 D, 367 E, 369 a, 427 d, 445 a-b, 576 c, and 
especially 472 b with 588 b and 612 b. 


scale and proportion of the various topics introduced, 
the justification and relevance of what may seem to 
some modern readers disproportionate digressions. 
The rigid, undeviating logic which Poe postulates for 
the short story or poem has no application to the 
large-scale masterpieces of literature as we actually 
find them. And it is the height of naivete for philo- 
logical critics who have never themselves composed 
any work of literary art to schoolmaster such creations 
by their own a priori canons of the logic and architec- 
tonic unity of composition. Such speculations have 
made wild work of Homeric criticism. They have 
been appUed to Demosthenes On the Crotvn and 
Virgil's Aeneid. Their employment either in criti- 
cism of the Republic or in support of unverifiable 
hj^otheses about the order of composition of its 
different books is sufficiently disposed of by the 
common sense of the passages which I have quoted 
below." For the reader who intelligently follows the 

" Cf. my review of Diesendruck's " Struktur and Cha- 
rakter des Platonischen Phaidros," Class. Phil. vol. xxiii., 
1928, pp. 79 f. : " In the Introduction to the Republic, Jowett 
writes, ' Nor need anji;hing be excluded from the plan of a 
great work to which the mind is naturally led by the 
association of ideas and which does not interfere with the 
general purpose.' Goethe in conversation with Eckermann 
said on May 6, 1827, ' Da kommen sie und fragen, welche 
Idee ich in meinem Faust zu verkorpern gesucht. Als ob 
ich das selber wiisste und aussprechen konnte.' Or with 
more special application to the Phaedrus I may quote 
Bourguet's review of Raeder, ' Cet eniiemble, on pensera 
sans doute que M. Raeder a eu tort de le juger mal construit. 
Au lieu d'une imperfection d'assemblage, c'est le plan 
raeme que le sujet indiquait. Et peut-etre est-il permis 
d'ajouter qu'on arrive ainsi a une autre id^e de la com- 
position, plus large et plus profonde, que celle qui est 
d'ordinaire acceptee, trop asservie a des canons d'ecole.' " 


main argument of the Republic, minor disproportions 
and irrelevancies disappear in the total impression of 
the unity and designed convergence of all its parts in 
a predetermined conclusion. If it pleases Plato to 
dwell a little longer than interests the modern reader 
on the expurgation of Homer (379 d-394)i the regula- 
tion of warfare between Greek states (469-471 c), the 
postulates of elementary logic (438-439), the pro- 
gramme of the higher education (521 fF.) and its 
psychological presuppositions (522-524), and the 
justification of the banishment of the poets (595-608 c), 
criticism has only to note and accept the fact. 

Socrates constructs the indispensable minimum 
(369 i>-e) of a state or city from the necessities of 
human Hfe, food, shelter, clothing, the inability of the 
isolated individual to provide for these needs and the 
principle of the division of labour." Plato is aware 
that the historic origin of society is to be looked for 
in the family and the clan. But he reserves this 
aspect of the subject for the Larvs.^ The hypothetical, 
simple primitive state, which Glaucon stigmatizes as 
a city of pigs (372 d), is developed into a normal 
modern society or city by the demand for customary 
luxuries, and by Herbert Spencer's principle of 
" tie multiplication of effects," one thing leading 
to another (373-374). The luxurious and inflamed 
city (372 e) is then purged and purified by the 
reform of ordinary Greek education," in which the 
expurgation of Homer and Homeric mythology holds 
a place that may weary the modern reader but is not 

" Cf. 369 B-372 c and my paper on " The Idea of Justice 
in Plato's Republic,'" The Ethical Record, January 1890. 

* 677 ff., 680 A-B ff. 

" Cf. my paper, " Some Ideals of Education in Plato's 
Republic," The Educational Bi-Monthly, February 1908. 


disproportionate to the importance of the matter for 
Plato's generation and for the Christian Fathers who 
quote it almost entire. Luxury- makes war unavoid- 
able (373 e). The principle of division of labour 
(374- b-e) is applied to the military class, who receive 
a special education, and who, to secure the disin- 
terested use of their power,'' are subjected to a 
Spartan disciphne and not permitted to touch gold 
or to own property (416-417). 

In such a state the four cardinal \irtues, the defini- 
tions of which were vainly sought in the minor dia- 
logues, are easily seen to be realizations on a higher 
plane of the principle of the di\ision of labour.^ It is 
further pro\-isionally assumed that the four cardinal 
\'irtues constitute and in some sort define goodness.*" 
The wisdom of such a state resides predominantlv 
in the rulers (428) : its bravery- in the soldiers (429), 
who acquire from their education a fixed and settled 
right opinion as to what things are reallv to be 
feared. Its sobriety, moderation, and temperance 
{sophrosyne) are the willingness of all classes to 
accept this di\ision of function (431 e). Its justice 
is the fulfilment of its own function by ever\' class 
(433). A pro\isional psychology (435 c-d) discovers 
in the human soul faculties corresponding to tfie 
three social classes (435 e ff.)."* And the social and 
poHtical definitions of these \-irtues are then seen to 

» Cf. my article, " Plato and His Lessons for To-day," in 
the Independent, vol. Ix., 1906, pp. -253-256. 

* Cf. 433, 443 c and Unity of Plato's Thought, pp. 15-16, 

• Cf. i-27 E with 449 a, and Gorgias, 507 c. 

•* There is no real evidence that this is derived from a 
Pythagorean doctrine of the three lives. There is a con- 
siderable recent literature that affirms it. It is enoush here 
to refer to Mr. A. E. Taylor's Plato, p. 281, and Burnet, 
Early Greek Philosophy', p. 296, n. 2. 



fit the individual. Sobriety and temperance are the 
acceptance by every faculty of this higher division of 
labour (441-442). Justice is the performance by every 
faculty of its proper task (433 a-b with 441 n). These 
definitions will stand the test of vulgar instances. 
The man whose own soul is inherently just in this 
ideal sense of the word will also be just in the ordinary 
relations of life. He will not pick and steal and cheat 
and break his promises (442 e-443 a). Justice in 
man and state is health. It is as absurd to maintain 
that the unjust man can be happier than the just as it 
would be to argue that the unhealthy man is happier 
than the healthy (445 a)." Our problem is apparently 

It has been argued that this conclusion marks the 
end of a first edition of the Republic to which there are 
vague references in antiquity. There can be no proof 
for such an hypothesis.'' Plato's plan from the first 
presumably contemplated an ideal state governed 
by philosophers (347 d), and there is distinct reference 
in the first four books to the necessity of securing 
the perpetuity of the reformed state by the superior 
intelligence of its rulers.*^ 

" Cf. my paper on " The Idea of Good in Plato's Republic,'' 
University of Chicago Studies in Classical Philology, vol. i. 
p. 194 : " Utilitarian ethics differs from the evolutionist, 
says Leslie Stephen ... in that ' the one lays down as a 
criterion the happiness, the other the health of the society. 
. . .' Mr. Stephen adds, ' the two are not really divergent,' 
and this is the thesis which Plato strains every nerve to 
prove throughout the Republic and Laws." 

* Cf. infra, p. xxv, note b. 

' Cf. 412 A with 429 a, 497 c-d, 502 d. Cf. also the 
•* longer way," 435 d with 504 b-c, and further. The Unity 
of Plato's Thought, note 650, and the article " Plato's Laws 
and the Unity of Plato's Thought," Classical Philology, 
October 1914, 


The transition at the beginning of the fifth book is 
quite in Plato's manner and recalls the transition in 
the Phaedo (84< c) to a renewal of the discussion of im- 
mortality. Here Glaucon and Adeimantus, as there 
Simmias and Cebes, are conversing in low tones and 
are challenged by Socrates to speak their mind openly 
(449 b). They desire a fuller explanation and justifi- 
cation of the paradox, too hghtly let fall by Socrates, 
that the guardians will have all things in common, 
including wives and children (449 c, cf. 424 a). Soc- 
rates, after some demur, undertakes to expound this 
topic and in general the pre-conditions of the realiza- 
tion of the ideal state under the continued metaphor 
of three waves of paradox. They are (1) the exercise 
of the same functions by men and Avomen (457 a, 
453 to 457) ; (2) the community of wives (457 c) ; (3) 
(which is the condition of the realization of all these 
ideals) the postulate that either philosophers must 
become kings or kings philosophers. 

The discussion of these topics and the digressions 
which they suggest give to this transitio nal book an 
appearance of confusion which attention to the clue 
of the three waves of paradox and the distinction 
between the desirabiUty and the possibility of the 
Utopia contemplated will remove." The last few 
pages of the book deprecate prevailing prejudice 
against the philosophers and prepare the way for the 
theory and description of the higher education in 
Books VI and VH by distinguishing from the many 
pretenders the true philosophers who are those who 
are lovers of ideas, capable of appreciating them, and 
able to reason in abstractions.^ Whatever the meta- 

« Cf. 452 E, 457 c, 457 d-e, 458 a-b, 461 e, 466 d, 471 c, 
472 D, 473 c-D. » Cf. 474 b, 475 d-e. 477-4S0. 479 a-b. 


physical implications of this passage " its practical 
significance for the higher education and the main 
argument of the Republic is that stated here. 

The sixth book continues this topic with an enum- 
eration of the qualities of the perfect student, the 
natural endowments that are the prerequisites of 
the higher education (4-85 ff.) and the reasons why 
so few (496 a) of those thus fortunately endowed are 
saved (-tQ* a) for philosophy from the corrupting 
influences of the crowd and the crowd-compelling 

In an ideal state these sports of nature (as Huxley 
styles them) will be systematically selected (499 b ff.), 
tested through all the stages of ordinary education 
and finally conducted by the longer way (504 b with 
435 d) of the higher education in the abstract sciences 
and mathematics and dialectics to the apprehension of 
the idea of good, which will be their guide in the con- 
duct of the state. This simple thought is expressed in 
a series of symbols — the sun (506 e ff.), the divided 
line (509 d), the cave (514 ff.) — which has obscured its 
plain meaning for the majority of readers." For the 
purposes of the Republic and apart from disputable 
metaphysical implications it means simply that ethics 
and politics ought to be something more than mere 
empiricism. Their principles and practice must be 
consistently related to a '^learly conceived final 
standard and ideal of human welfare and good. To 
conceive such a standard and apply it systematically 

» Cf. The Unity of Plato's Thought, pp. 55-56. 

" Cf. 490 E, 492 ff. 

' Cf. my paper on " The Idea of Good," The Unity 
of Plato's Thovffht, pp. 16 ff. and 74, and my article 
'* Summum Bonum " in Hastings, Encyclopaedia of 
Religion and Ethics, 


to the complications of institutions, law, and educa- 
tion is possible only for first-class minds who have 
undergone a severe discipline in abstract thought, 
supplemented by a long experience in affairs (-tS-i a, 
539 e). But it is even more impossible that the 
multitude should be critics than that they should be 
philosophers (49^ a). And so this which is Plato's 
plain meaning has been lost in the literature of 
mystic and fanciful interpretation of the imagery 
in which he clothes it. 

From these heights the seventh book descends to 
a sober account of the higher education in the 
mathematical sciences and dialectic (521 c ff.). The 
passage is an interesting document for Plato's con- 
ception of education and perhaps for the practice in 
his Academy. It also is the chief text for the con- 
troverted question of Plato's attitude towards science 
and the place of Platonism in the history of science, 
but it need not further detain us here." This book, 
in a sense, completes the description of the ideal 

The eighth book, one of the most brilliant pieces 
of writing in Plato, is a rapid survey of the diver- 
gence, the progressive degeneracy from the ideal 
state in the four types to which Plato thinks the 
tiresome infinity of the forms of government that 
minute research enunr 'grates among Greeks and 
barbarians may be conveniently reduced (54'+ c-d). 
These are the timocracy, whose principle is honour 
(545 c ff.), the oUgarchy, which regards wealth 
(550 c ff., 551c), the democracy, whose slogan is 

• Cf. my paper, " Platonism and the History of Science," 
American Philosophical Society's Proceedings, vol. Ixvi., 
1927, pp. 171 ff. 


liberty, or " doing as one likes " (557 B-E),the tyranny, 
enslaved to appetite. In this review history, satire, 
political philosophy, and the special literary motives 
of the Republic are blended in a mixture hopelessly 
disconcerting to all literal-minded critics from 
Aristotle down. 

In the first two types Plato is evidently thinking 
of the better (544 c) and the worse aspects (548 a) of 
Sparta. In his portrayal of the democratic state he 
lets himself go in satire of fourth-century Athens 
(557 B ff.), intoxicated with too heady draughts of 
liberty (562 d) and dying of the triumph of the liberal 
party. His picture of the tyrant is in part a powerful 
restatement of Greek commonplace (5G5 a-576) and 
in part a preparation for the return to the main 
argument of the Republic (577 ff.) by direct applica- 
tion of the analogy between the individual and the 
state with which he began. 

In the ninth book all the lines converge on the 
original problem. After adding the final touches to 
the picture of the terrors and inner discords (576-580) 
of the tyrant's soul, Plato finally decides the issue 
between the just and the unjust life by three argu- 
ments. The just life is proved the happier (1) by the 
analogy with the contrasted happiness of the royal 
(ideal) and the unhappiness of the tyrannized state 
(577 c ff.), (2) by reason of an argument which Plato 
never repeats but which John Stuart Mill seriously 
accepts (582-583) : The man who lives mainly for 
the higher spiritual satisfactions has necessarily had 
experience of the pleasures of sense and ambition 
also. He only can compare and judge. The 
devotees of sense and ambition know little or nothing 
of the higher happiness of the intellect and the soul. 


(S) The third and perhaps the most weighty proof is 
the principle on which the Platonic philosophy or 
science of ethics rests, the fact that the pleasures of 
sense are essentially negative, not to say worthless, 
because thev are preconditioned by equivalent wants 
which are pains.'' This principle is clearly suggested 
in the Gorgias, Meno, Phaedrns, and Phaedo, and is 
elaborately explained in the psychology of the 
Philehus. It is in fact the basis of the Platonic ethics, 
which the majority of critics persist in deducing from 
their notion of Plato's metaphysics. These three 
arguments, however, are not the last word. For final 
conviction Plato falls back on the old analogy of 
health and disease, with which the fourth book 
provisionally concluded the argument, and which as 
we there saw is all that the scientific ethics of Leslie 
Stephen can urge in the last resort.* The immoral 
soul is diseased and cannot enjoy true happiness. 
This thought is expressed in the image of the 
many-headed beast (588 c ff.) and confirmed in 
a final passage of moral eloquence which forms a 
climax and the apparent conclusion of the whole 

The tenth book may be regarded either as an 
appendix and after-piece or as the second and higher 
climax prepared bv an intervening level tract separat- 
ing it from the eloquent conclusion of the ninth book. 
The discussion in the first half of the book of the 
deeper psychological justification of the banishment 
of imitative poets is interesting in itself. It is 
something that Plato had to say and that could be 

» C/. 583 B ff. and Unity of Plato's Thought, pp. 23 f. and 
26 f., and '* The Idea of Good in Plato's Republic," pp. 192 ff. 
* Cf. supra, p. xvi, note a. 


said here with the least interruption of the general 
design. But its chief service is that it rests the 
emotions between two culminating points and so 
allows each its full force. Whether by accident or 
design, this method of composition is found in the 
Iliad, where the games of the twenty-third book 
relieve the emotional tension of the death of Hector 
in the twenty-second and prepare us for the final 
climax of the ransom of his body and his burial in 
the twenty-fourth. It is also found in the oration 
On the Crofim, which has two almost equally eloquent 
perorations separated by a tame level tract. In 
Plato's case there is no improbability in the assump- 
tion of conscious design. The intrinsic preferability 
of justice has been proved and eloquently summed 
up. The impression of that moral eloquence would 
have been weakened if Plato had immediately pro- 
ceeded to the myth that sets forth the rewards that 
await the just man in the life to come. And the 
mvth itself is much more effective after an interval 
of sober argument and discussion. Then that natural 
human desire for variation and relief of monotony 
for which the modulations of Plato's art everywhere 
provide makes us welcome the tale of Er the son 
of Arminius (614 b), the " angel " from over there 
(614 d). And we listen entranced to the myth that 
was saved and will save us if we believe it — believe 
that the soul is immortal, capable of infinite issues 
of good and evil, of weal or woe. So shall we hold 
ever to the upward way and follow righteousness 
and sobriety with clear-eyed reason that we may be 
dear to ourselves and to God, both in the time of 
our sojourn and trial here below and also when, like 
victors in the games, we receive the final crown and 


prize, that thus both here and in aU the millennial 
pilgrim's progress of the soul of which we fable we 
shall fare well (621 c-d). 

This smnmary presents only the bare frame- 
work of the ideas of the Republic. But we may 
fittingly add here a partial list of the many brilhant 
passages of description, character - painting, satire, 
imagery, and moral eloquence dispersed through the 

They include the dramatic introduction (327-331) 
with the picture of the old age of the just man, 
prefiguring the conclusion of the whole work ; the 
angry intervention of Thrasymachus (336 b ff.) ; the 
altercation between Thras\-machus and Cleitophon 
(340) ; Thrasymachus perspiring under Socrates' 
questions because it was a hot dav (350 d) ; the 
magnificent restatement of the case for injustice by 
Glaucon and Adeimantus (357-367) ; the Words- 
worthian idea of the influence of a beautiful environ- 
ment on the young soul (4-01) ; the satiric description 
of the valetudinarian and malade imaginaire (406- 
407) ; the eloquent forecast of the fate of a society 
in which the guardians exploit their charges and the 
watchdogs become grey wolves (416-417) ; the satire 
on the lazy workman's or sociahst paradise (420 d-e) ; 
the completion of the dream and the first of three 
noble statements of what Emerson calls the sove- 
reignty of ethics, the moral ideal, the anticipated 
Stoic principle that nothing really matters but the 
good vriW (443-444 ; cf. 591 E, 618 c) ; the soul that 
contemplates all time and all existence (486 a) ; the 
allegory of the disorderly ship and the riotous crew 
(488-489) ; the power of popular assembUes to 


corrupt the youthful soul and all souls that have not 
a footing somewhere in eternity (492) ; the great 
beast that symbolizes the public (493 a-b) — not to 
be confused, as often happens, with the composite 
beast that is an allegory of the mixed nature of man ; 
the little bald tinker who marries his master's 
daughter, an allegory of the unworthy wooers of 
divine philosophy (495 e) ; the true philosophers 
whose contemplation of the heavens and of eternal 
things leaves them no leisure for petty bickerings 
and jealousies (500 c-d) ; the sun as symbol of the 
idea of good (507-509) ; the divided line illustrating 
the faculties of mind and the distinction between 
the sciences and pure philosophy or dialectics (510- 
511) ; the prisoners in the fire-lit cave, an allegory 
of the unphilosophic, unreleased mind (514-518) ; 
the entire eighth book, which Macaulay so greatly 
admired ; and especially its satire on democracy 
doing as it likes, the inspiration of Matthew Arnold 
(562-563) ; Plato's evening prayer, as it has been 
called, anticipating all that is true and significant 
in the Freudian psychology (571); the description of 
the tortured tyrant's soul, applied by Tacitus to the 
Roman emperors (578-579) ; the comparison of the 
shadows we are and the shadows we pursue with 
the Greeks and Trojans who fought for a phantom 
Helen (586 B-c) ; the likening of the human soul to 
a many-headed beast (588 c) ; the city of which the 
pattern is laid up in heaven (592 a-b) ; the spell of 
Homer (607 c-d) ; the crowning myth of immortality 

The Republic is the central and most comprehensive 
work of Plato's maturity. It may have been com- 


posed between the years 380 and 370 b.c. in the fifth 
or sixth decade of Plato's life." 

The tradition that the earlier books were published 
earlier can neither be proved nor disproved.** 

The invention of printing has given to the idea of 
" publication " a precision of meaning which it could 
not bear in the Athens of the fourth century b.c. 
Long before its formal completion the plan and the 
main ideas of Plato's masterpiece were doubtless 
familiar, not only to the students of the Academy 
but to the rival school of Isocrates and the literary 
gossips of Athens. 

Unlike the presumably earlier Charmides, Laches, 
Lysis, Euthyphro, Meno, Protagoras, Gorgias, Euthy- 
demus, the Republic is a positive, not to say a dog- 
matic, exposition of Plato's thought, and not, except 
in the introductory first book, an idealizing dra- 

• Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 78, n. 606 ; Zeller, 
Plato*, p. 551, discusses the evidence and anticipates 
without accepting Taylor's argument {Plato, p. 20) that 
the quotation of the sentence about philosophers being kings 
{Rep. 473 c-D, 499 b c) by the author of the seventh Epistle 
proves that the Republic was already written in the year 388/7. 

* Cf. Aulus Gellius, Nodes Atticae, xiv. 3. 3 and other 
passages cited by Henri Alline, Histoire dii texte de Platon, 
p. 14, and Hirmer, " Entstehung und Komp. d. Plat. Rep.," 
Jahrbiicher fiir Phil., Suppl., N.F., vol. xxiii. p. 654 ; 
Wilamowitz, i. pp. 209 ff. on the " Thrasymachus " ; Hans 
Raeder, Platons philosophische Entwicklung, pp. 187 ff. ; 
Ueberweg-Praechter {Altertum), p. 217. Cf. Ivo Bruns, 
Das literarische Portrdt der Griechen, etc., p. 322 : " Vor 
allem aber bestimmt mich der Gesammtscharakter des 
ersten Buches, welches zu keinem anderen Zwecke ge- 
schrieben sein kann, als demjenigen, den es in dem jetzigen 
Zusammenhange erfiillt, namlich, als Einleitung in ein 
grosseres Ganzes zu dienen. Es kann nie dazu bestimmt 
gewesen sein, eine Sonderexistenz zu fuhren, wie etwa der 


matization of Socrates' talks with Athenian youths 
and sophists. 

Aristotle cites the Republic as the Politeia,'^ and 
this was the name given to it by Plato. In 527 c 
it is playfully called the Kallipolis. The secondary 
title y] Trept ^iKaiov is not found in the best manu- 
scripts, and, as the peculiar use of t] indicates, was 
probably added later. 

But, as already said, we cannot infer from this that 
the ethical interest is subordinated to the political.'' 
The two are inseparable. The distinction between 
ethics and politics tends to vanish in early as in recent 
philosophy. Even Aristotle, who first perhaps wrote 
separate treatises on ethics and politics, combines 
them as 7) Trept to. dvdpwTTLva </)iAoa"o</)ta. He speaks 
of ethics as a kind of politics. And though he regards 
the family and the individual as historically preceding 
the state, in the order of nature and the idea the state 
is prior. The modern sociologist who insists that the 
psychological and moral life of the individual apart from 
the social organism is an unreal abstraction is merely 
returning to the standpoint of the Greek who could 
not conceive man as a moral being outside of the polis.'^ 
In the consciously figurative language of Plato,<* the 
I idea of justice is reflected both in the individual and 
1! the state, the latter merely exhibits it on a larger 
r scale. Or, to put it more simply, the true and only 
aim of the political art is to make the citizens happier 
by making them better.* And though good men 

" Politics, 1264, b 24. The plural also occurs, ibid. 
1293 b 1. 

* Cf. supra, p. xii, note c. ' Cf. supra, p. xii, 

^ 368 D-369 A. It is uncritical to press the metaphysical 
suggestions of this passage. 

« Euthydemus 291 c ff., Gorgias 621 d, Euthyphro 2 d. 


arise sporadically," and are preserved by the grace of 
God in corrupt states,* the only hope for mankind is in 
a state governed by philosophical wisdom (473 d), and 
the ideal man can attain to his full stature and live a 
complete life only in the ideal city/ 

The larger part of the Republic is in fact occupied 
with the ideal state, with problems of education and 
social control, but, as already said, we are repeatedly 
reminded (supra, p. xii) that all these discussions are 
in Plato's intention subordinated to the main ethical 
proof that the just life is happier than the unjust. 
Ethics takes precedence in that the final appeal is to 
the individual will and the individual thirst for happi- 
ness. Plato is to that extent an indi%idualist and a 
utilitarian. Politics is primary in so far as man's 
moral life cannot exist outside of the state. 

There are hints of the notion of an ideal state before 
Plato."* And the literary motif of Utopia has a long 
history.* But it was the success of the Republic and 
Larvs that made the portrayal of the best state the 
chief problem, not to say the sole theme, of Greek 
political science. In Plato this was due to an idealistic 
temper and a conviction of the irremediable corrup- 
tion of Greek social and political life. The place 

« Rep. 520 B, Protag. 320 a, Meno 92 d-e, Laws 642 c, 
951 B. 

* Meno 99 e. Rep. 493 a. 

• Cf. Rfp. 497 A ; Spencer, Ethics, vol. i. p. 280. 

' Cf. Newman, Politics of Aristotle, vol. i. pp. 85 S, 
' Of the immense literature of the subject it is enough to 
refer to Alfred Dorens' " Wiinschraume und Wiinschzeiten " 
in Vortrage der Bibliothek Warburg, 1924-1925, Berlin, 1927 ; 
Fr. Klein wachter. Die Staats Romane, Vienna, 1891 ; Edgar 
Salin, Platon und die griechische Utopie, Leipzig, 1921. An 
incomplete list collected from these essays includes more 
than fifty examples. 



assigned to the ideal state in Aristotle's Politics is 
sometimes deplored by the admirers of the matter- 
of-fact and inductive methods of the first and fifth 
books. And in our own day the value of this motif 
for the serious science of society is still debated by 

The eternal fascination of the literary motif is in- 
disputable, and we may enjoy without cavil the form 
which the artist Plato preferred for the exposition of 
his thought, while careful to distinguish the thoughts 
themselves from their sometimes fantastic embodi- 
ment. But we must first note one or two of the funda- 
mental differences between the presuppositions of 
Plato's speculations and our own. (1) Plato's state is 
a Greek city, not a Persian empire, a European nation, 
or a conglomerate America. To Greek feeling com- 
plete and rational life was impossible for the in- 
habitant of a village or the subject of a satrap. It 
was attainable only through the varied social and 
political activities of the Greek polis, equipped with 
agora, gymnasium, assembly, theatre, and temple- 
crowned acropolis. It resulted from the action and 
interaction upon themselves and the world of in- 
telligent and equal freemen conscious of kinship and 
not too nuinerous for self-knowledge or too few for 
self-defence. From this point of view Babylon, 
Alexandria, Rome, London, and New York would not 
be cities but chaotic aggregations of men. And in the 
absence of steam, telegraphy, and representative 
government the empires of Darius, Alexander, and 
Augustus would not be states but loose associations 
of cities, tribes, and provinces. Much of Plato's 
sociology is therefore inapplicable to modern con- 
ditions. But though we recognize, we must not 



exaggerate the difference. The Stoic and Christian 
city of God, the world citizenship into which the 
subjects of Rome were progressively adopted, the 
mediaeval papacy and empire, the twentieth-century 
democratic nation are the expressions of larger and 
perhaps more generous ideals. But in respect of the 
achievement of a complete life for all their members, 
they still remain failures or experiments. The city- 
state, on the other hand, has once and again at Athens 
and Florence so nearly solved its lesser problem as to 
make the ideal city appear not altogether a dream. 
And, accordingly, modern idealists are returning to 
the conception of smaller cantonal communities, inter- 
connected, it is true, by all the agencies of modern 
science and industrialism, but in their social tissue and 
structure not altogether incomparable to the small 
city-state which Plato contemplated as the only 
practical vehicle of the higher life. 

(2) The developments of science and industry have 
made the idea of progress an essential part of every 
modern Utopia. The subjugation of nature by man 
predicted in Bacon's New Atlantis has come more and 
more to dominate all modern dreams of social reform. 
It is this which is to lay the spectre of Malthusianism. 
It is this which is to give us the four-hour day and \n\\ 
furnish the workman's dwelling with all the labour- 
saving conveniences of electricity, supply his table 
with all the delicacies of all the seasons, entertain his 
cultivated leisure with automatic reproductions of all 
the arts, and place flying machines and automobiles 
at his disposal when he would take the air. 

This is not the place to estimate the part of illusion 
in these fancies. It is enough to observe that in 
dwelling too complacently upon them modern utop- 


ians are apt to forget the moral and spiritual pre- 
conditions of any fundamental betterment of human 
life. Whereas Plato, conceiving the external con- 
dition of man's existence to be essentially fixed, has 
more to tell us of the discipline of character and the 
elevation of intelligence. In Xavier Demaistre's 
Voyage autour de ma ckambre, Plato, revisiting the 
glimpses of the moon, is made to say, " In spite of 
your glorious gains in physical science, my opinion of 
human nature is unchanged — but I presume that your 
progress in psychology, history, and the scientific 
control of human nature, has by this time made 
possible that ideal Republic which in the conditions of 
my own age I regarded as an impracticable dream." 
Demaistre was sorely embarrassed for a reply. Have 
we one ready ? 

Living in a milder climate and before the birth of 
the modern industrial proletariat, Plato is less haunted 
than we by the problem of pauperism.*' And his 
austerity of temper would have left him indifferent, 
if not hostile, to the ideal of universal luxury and ease. 
It was not the life he appointed for his guardians, and 
the demand of the workers for it he has satirized in 
advance (420 d-e). If we add to the two points here 
considered some shades of ethical and religious feel- 
ing, associated with Christianity, we shall have nearly 
exhausted the list of fundamental differences between 
Plato's political and social thought and our own. 
The Republic, if we look beneath the vesture of 
paradox to the body of its substantive thought, might 

" Cf.y however, Pohlmann, Oeschichte der sozialen Frage 
und des Sozialismus in der antiken Welt, who, however, in 
the opinion of some of his critics, exaggerates the industrialism 
and industrial problems of Athens. 


seem a book of yesterday or to-morrow. The concep- 
tion of society as an organism, %\-ith the dependence 
of laws and institutions upon national temperament, 
and customs, the omnipotence of public opinion, the 
division of labour and the reasons for it, the necessity 
of specialization, the formation of a trained standing 
army, the Hmitation of the right of private property, 
the industrial and political equality of women, the 
reform of the letter of the creeds in order to save the 
spirit, the proscription of unwholesome art and litera- 
ture, the reorganization of education, eugenics, the 
kindergarten method, the distinction between higher 
and secondary education, the endowment of research, 
the application of the higher mathematics to astron- 
omy and physics — all this and much more may be read 
in it by him who runs. 

A critical interpretation would first remove some 
obstacles to a true appreciation interposed by cap- 
tious cavils or over-ingenious scholarship, and then 
proceed to study Plato's ideas (1) as embedded in the 
artistic structure of the Republic, (2) as the outgrowth 
of Plato's thought and experience as a whole, and of 
the suggestions that came to him from his predeces- 
sors and contemporaries. The Republic is, in Huxley's 
words, a " noble, philosophical romance " — it is a dis- 
cussion of ethics, poUtics, sociology, religion and edu- 
cation cast in the form of a Utopia or an Emile. The 
criticism of Plato's serious meanings is one thing. The 
observation of the wav in which thev are coloured and 
heightened by the exigencies of this special literary 
form is another. Plato himself has told us that the 
Republic is a fairy-tale or fable about justice. And he 
has warned us that ever}' such finished composition 
must contain a large measure of what in contrast to 


the severity of pure dialectic he calls jest or play." 
Within the work itself the artistic illusion had to be 
preserved. But even there Plato makes it plain that 
his chief purpose is to embody certain ideas in an 
ideal, not to formulate a working constitution or body 
of legislation for an actual state. An ideal retains its 
value even though it may never be precisely realized 
in experience. It is a pattern laid up in heaven for 
those who can see and understand. Plato will not 
even assert that the education which he prescribes is 
the best. He is certain only that the best education, 
whatever it may be, is a pre-condition of the ideal 
state (416 B-c). Somewhere in the infinite past or 
future — it may be in the barbarian world beyond our 
ken — the true city may be visioned whenever and 
wherever political power and philosophic wisdom are 
wedded and not as now divorced. He affirms no more. 

It is a waste of ink to refute the paradoxes or harp 
upon the omissions of the Republic in disregard of 
these considerations. The paradoxes are softened 
and explained, the omissions supplied in the Politicus 
and the Laws, which express fundamentally identical 
ethical and political convictions from a slightly 
different point of view and a perhaps somewhat 
sobered mood.'' To assume that differences which are 
easily explained by the moulding of the ideas in their 
literary framework are caused by revolutions in 
Plato's beliefs is to violate all canons of sound criti- 
cism and all the established presumptions of the 
unity of Plato's thought. 

The right way to read the Republic is fairly indicated 

" Phaedr. 278 e. 

* Cf. my paper, " Plato's Laics and the Unity of Plato's 
Thought," Class. Phil. vol. ix., 1914, pp. 345-369. 


by casual utterances of such critics as Renan, Pater, 
Emerson, and Emile Faguet. The captious attitude 
of mind is illustrated by the set criticism of Aristotle, 
the Christian Fathers, Zeller, De Quincey, Landor, 
Spencer, and too large a proportion of professional 
philologists and commentators. " As the poet too," 
says Emerson, " he (Plato) is only contemplative. He 
did not, like Pythagoras, break himself with an insti- 
tution. All his painting in the Republic must be 
esteemed mythical with the intent to bring out, 
sometimes in violent colours, his thought." 

This disposes at once of all criticism, hostile or 
friendly, aesthetic or philological, that scrutinizes the 
Republic as if it were a bill at its second reading in 
Parliament, or a draft of a constitution presented to 
an American state convention. The greater the in- 
genuity and industry applied to such interpretations 
the further we are led astray. Even in the Lans 
Plato warns us that we are not yet, but are only 
becoming, legislators. 

In the Republic it suits Plato's design to build up the 
state from indi\idual units and their economic needs. 
But his critics, from Aristotle to Sir Henry Maine, 
derive their conception of the patriarchal theory of 
society from his exposition of it in the Lans. 

He embodies his criticism of existing Greek institu- 
tions in a scheme for the training of his soldiers, supple- 
mented by the higher education of the guardians. 
But we cannot infer, as hasty critics have done, from 
421 A that he would not educate the masses at all. 
The banishment of Homer is a vivid expression of 
Plato's demand that theology be purified and art 
moralized. But Milton wisely declined to treat it as 
a serious argument against the liberty of unlicensed 


printing in England. And nothing can be more pre- 
posterous than the statement still current in books of 
supposed authority that the severity of dialectics had 
suppressed in Plato the capacity for emotion and the 
appreciation of beauty. The abolition of private 
property among the ruling classes is partly the ex- 
pression of a religious, a Pythagorean, not to say a 
Christian, ideal, which Plato reluctantly renounces in 
the Laws.'^ But it is mainly a desperate attempt to 
square the circle of politics and justify the rule of the 
intelligent few by an enforced disinterestedness and 
the annihilation of all possible " sinister interests." ^ 
All criticism that ignores this vital point is worthless." 

The same may be said of the community of wives, 
which is further, as Schopenhauer remarks, merely a 
drastic expression of the thought that the breeding of 
men ought to be as carefully managed as that of 
animals. It is abandoned in the Laws. The detailed 
refutations of Aristotle are beside the mark, and the 
denunciations of the Christian Fathers and De 
Quincey and Landor are sufficiently met by Lucian's 
remark that those who find in the Republic an apology 
for licentiousness little apprehend in what sense the 
divine philosopher meant his doctrine of communistic 

It is the height of naivete to demonstrate by the 
statistics of a Parisian creche that the children of the 
guardians would die in infancy, or to inquire too 
curiously into the risks they would run in accompany- 
ing their parents on horseback to war (A'&Q f, 467 f). 

« Rep. 416, 462-463, 465 b, Timaeus 18 b, Laws 739 b-d. 

* Cf. supra, p. XV and infra, p. xlii. 

' Even Newman, for example, seems to accept the Aristo- 
telian objection that such a military caste will tyrannize. 
See Newman's Politics of Aristotle, vol. i. pp. 326 f. 


The comparison of the individual to the state is a 
suggestive analogy for sociology and at the same 
time a literary motif that is vi'orth precisely what the 
writer's tact and skill can make of it. Plato's use of 
the idea is most effective. By subtle artifices of style 
the cumulative effect of which can be felt only in the 
original, the reader is brought to conceive of the social 
organism as one monster man or leviathan, whose 
sensuous appetites are the unruly mechanic mob, 
whose disciplined emotions are the trained force that 
checks rebelhon within and guards against invasion 
from without, and whose reason is the philosophic 
statesmanship that directs each and all for the good 
of the whole. And conversely the individual man is 
pictured as a biological colony of passions and appetites 
which " swarm like worms ^nthin our living clay " — a 
curious compound of beast and man which can attain 
real unity and personality only by the conscious 
domination of the monarchical reason. The origina- 
tion of this idea apparently belongs to Plato. But he 
can hardly be held responsible for the abuse of it by 
modern sociologists, or for Herbert Spencer's pon- 
derous demonstration that with the aid of Huxley 
and Carpenter he can discover analogies between the 
body politic and the physiological body in comparison 
with which those of Plato are mere child's-play. 

It is unnecessary to multiply illustrations of such 
matter-of-fact and misconceived criticism. Enough 
has been said perhaps to prepare the way for the 
broad literary common-sense appreciation of the 
Republic, which an intelligent reader, even of a trans- 
lation, will arrive at for himself if he reads without 
prejudice and without checking at every Uttle 
apparent oddity in the reasoning or the expression. 


The proper historical background for such a broad 
understanding of Plato's political and social philosophy 
is Thucydides' account of the thirty years' Pelo- 
ponnesian war, which Hobbes translated in order to 
exhibit to England and Europe the evils of un- 
bridled democracy. Thucydides' history is the 
ultimate source of all the hard-headed cynical politi- 
cal philosophy of Realpolitik and the Superman, from 
Machiavelli, Guicciardini, and Hobbes to Nietzsche 
and Bernardi. And in recent years the speeches 
which he attributes to the Athenian ambassadors 
proposing to violate the neutrality of Melos have 
been repeatedly rediscovered and quoted. They are 
merely the most drastic expression of a philosophy 
of life and politics which pervades the entire history 
and which I studied many years ago in a paper on 
the " Implicit Ethics and Psychology of Thucy- 
dides," " some of the ideas of which are reproduced 
apparently by accident in Mr. Cornford's Thucydides 
Mythistoricus. The moral disintegration of a pro- 
longed world war is the predestined medium for the 
culture of this poisonous germ. And the Pelo- 
ponnesian war was a world war for the smaller 
international system of the Greek states. It was 
for Greece that suicide which our civil war may 
prove to have been for the old American New 
England and Virginia, and which we pray the World 
War may not prove to have been for Europe. The 
analogy, which we need not verify in detail, is 
startling, though the scale in Greece was infinitely 
smaller. In both cases we see an inner ring or focus 
of intense higher civilization encompassed by a vast 

" Transactions of Amer. Philol. Assoc, vol. xxiv. pp. 66 fF. 
The Dial, Chicago, 1907, xliii. p. 202. 


outer semi-civib'zed or barbarian world of coloniza- 
tion, places in the sun, trade monopolies, and spheres 
of influence. In both the inner ring is subdivided 
into jealous states whose unstable equihbrium 
depends on the maintenance of the balance of power 
between two great systems, one commercial, demo- 
cratic, and naval, the other authoritative, dis- 
ciplined, militar}-. The speeches of Pericles and 
King Archidamus in Thucydides analyse, contrast, 
and develop the conflicting ideals and weigh sea 
power against land power, as the speeches of rival 
prime ministers have done in our day. I merely 
suggest the parallel. What coacerns us here is that 
to understand Plato we must compare, I do not say 
identify, him with Renan vTiting about la reforme 
intellectuelk et morale of France after the annee 
terrible, or, absit omen, an EngUsh philosopher of 
1950 speculating on the decline and fall of the 
British Empire, or an American philosopher of 1980 
meditating on the failure of American democracy. 
The background of the comparatively optimistic 
Socrates was the triumphant progressive imperialistic 
democracy of the age of Pericles, and the choric 
odes of the poets and prophets of the imaginative 
reason, Aeschylus and Sophocles. The background 
of Plato, the experience that ground to devihsh 
colours all his dreams and permanently darkened his 
vision of life, was the world war that made ship^^Teck 
of the Periclean ideal and lowered the level of 
Hellenic civilization in preparation for its final 
overthrow. The philosophy which he strove to 
overcome in himself and others was the philosophy 
of the political speeches in Thucydides and of those 
bitter disillusionized later plays of Euripides, His 


middle age fell and his Republic was conceived in an 
Athens stagnating under the hateful oppression of 
the Sp&rtan Junker dominating Greece in alliance 
with the unspeakable Persian. The environment 
of his old age and its masterpiece, the Laws, was 
the soft, relaxed, sensuous, cynical, pococurante, 
^n de siecle Athens of the New Comedy, drifting 
helplessly to the catastrophe of Chaeronea — the 
Athens which Isocrates expected to save by treaties 
of peace with all mankind and shutting up the wine- 
shops, and which Demosthenes vainly admonished 
to build up its fleet and drill its armies against the 
Macedonian peril. When Plato is characterized as 
an unpatriotic, undemocratic, conservative reaction- 
ary, false to the splendid Periclean tradition, we must 
remember that Pericles' funeral oration had become 
for all but the fourth of July orators of Plato's 
generation as intolerable and ironic a mockery as 
Lowell's Commemoration Ode and Lincoln's Gettysburg 
address will seem to America if democracy fails to 
unify us into a real people. His philosophy was 
" reactionary " in the sense that it was his own 
inevitable psychological and moral reaction against 
the sophistical ethics " of the Superman on one 
side and on the other against the cult of inefficiency 
and indiscipline which he had come to regard 
as wholly inseparable from unlimited democracy. 
This reactionary aspect of Plato's political and social 
philosophy has been vividly depicted, though perhaps 
with some strained allusions to the democracy of 
contemporary France, in Faguet's five chapters on 
the hatreds of Plato. 

" Cf. my paper on the " Interpretation of the Timaeus" 
A.J.P. vol. ix. pp. 395 ff. 


The equivocal labels radical and conservative mean 
little in their application to minds of the calibre of 
a Plato or even of a Burke. What really matters is 
the kind of conservative, the kind of radical that 
you are. As Mill says, there is a distinction ignored 
in all political classification, and more important than 
any political classification, the difference between 
superior and inferior minds. 

As a thinker for all time, Plato in logical grasp 
and coherency of consecutive and subtle thought, 
stands apart from and above a Renan, a Burke, an 
Arnold, or a Ruskin. But as a man, his mood, in- 
e\itably determined by his historical environment, 
was that of Matthew Arnold in the 'sixties, en- 
deavouring to prick with satire the hide of the 
British Philistine, or of Ruskin in the 'seventies 
embittered by the horrors of the Franco-Prussian 
War and seeking consolation in the political economy 
of the future. We may denominate him a conserv^a- 
tive and a reactionary, in view of this personal mood 
and temper, and his despair of the democracy of 
fin de Steele Athens. But his Utopian Republic 
advocated not only higher education and votes, but 
offices for women, and a eugenic legislation that 
would stagger Oklahoma. And so if you turn to 
Professor Murray's delightful Euripides and his Age, 
you \\ill read that Euripides is the child of a strong 
and splendid tradition and is, together with Plato, 
the first of all rebels against it. Suppose Professor 
Murray had ^vTitten, Bernard Shaw is the child of 
a strong and splendid tradition and, together with 
Matthew Arnold, the first of all rebels against it. 
I think we should demur, and feel that something 
was wrong. We should decline to bracket Arnold 

VOL. 1 d xxxix 


and Shaw as rebels to English tradition, despite the 
fact that both endeavoured to stir up the British 
Philistine with satire and wit. As a matter of fact, 
Plato detested Euripides and all his works, and 
generally alludes to him with Aristophanic irony. 

If we pass by the terrible arraignment in the 
Gorgias of the democracy that was guilty of the 
judicial murder of Socrates, the pohtical philosophy 
of the minor dialogues is mainly a Socratic canvassing 
of definitions, and an apparently vain but illuminating 
quest for the supreme art of Hfe, the art that will make 
us happy, the political or royal art, which guides and 
controls all else, including music, Hterature, and edu- 
cation. This conception is represented in the Republic 
by the poetic allegory of the Idea of Good and the 
description of the higher education of the true states- 
man which alone lends it real content. The matter is 
quite simple, and has been confused . only by the 
refusal to accept Plato's own plain statements about 
it and the persistent tendency to translate Plato's 
good poetry into bad metaphysics." 

The metaphysics of the Idea of Good will be treated 
in the introduction to the second volume. Here it is 
enough to quote Mr. Chesterton, who, whether by 
accident or design, in a lively passage of his Heretics, 
expresses the essential meaning of the doctrine in the 
political, ethical, and educational philosophy of the 
Republic quite sufficiently for practical purposes. 

Every one of the popular modern phrases and 
ideals is a dodge in order to shirk the problem of 
what is good. We are fond of talking about ' hberty '; 
that, as we talk of it, is a dodge to avoid discussing 

" Cf. my article " Summum Bonum " in Hastings' Encyclo- 
pedia of Religion and Ethics. 


what is good. We are fond of talking about * pro- 
gress ' ; that is a dodge to avoid discussing what is 
good. We are fond of talking about ' education ' ; 
that is a dodge to avoid discussing what is good. The 
modern man says, ' Let us leave all these arbitrary 
standards and embrace liberty.' That is, logically 
rendered, ' Let us not decide what is good, but let 
it be considered good not to decide it.' He says, 
' Away with your old moral formulae ; I am for 
progress.' This, logically stated, means, ' Let us not 
settle what is good ; but let us settle whether we are 
getting more of it.' He says, ' Neither in religion nor 
morality, my friend, lie the hopes of the race, but in 
education.' This, clearly expressed, means, ' We 
cannot decide what is good, but let us give it to our 
children.' " So far Mr. Chesterton. 

Plato's Idea of Good, then, means that the educa- 
tion of his philosophic statesmen must lift them to 
a region of thought which transcends the intellectual 
confusion in which these dodges and evasions alike 
of the ward boss and the gushing settlement-worker 
dwell. He does not tell us in a quotable formula 
what the good is, because it remains an inexhaust- 
ible ideal. But he portrays with entire lucidity his 
own imaginative conception of Greek social good 
in his Republic and Laivs. 

The doctrine of the Idea of Good is simply the 
postulate that social well-being must be organized not 
by rule-of-thumb, hand-to-mouth opportunist politi- 
cians, but by highly trained statesmen systematically 
keeping in view large and consciously apprehended 
ends. The only way to compass this, Plato affirms, is 
first to prepare and test your rulers by the severest 
education physical and mental, theoretical and 



practical that the world has yet seen, and secondly 
to insure their freedom from what Bentham calls 
" sinister interests " by taking away from them 
their safe-deposit vaults and their investments in 
corporation stock and requiring them to live on a 
moderate salary and a reasonable pension. 

This, or so much of it as may be translated into 
modern terms, is the essence of Plato's social and 
political philosophy. 

But Plato's Republic, whatever its contributions to 
political theory or its suggestiveness to the practical 
politician or social reformer, is not a treatise on 
political science or a text-book of civics. It is the 
City of God in which Plato's soul sought refuge from 
the abasement of Athenian politics which he felt 
himself impotent to reform. The philosopher, he 
says (496 d) with unmistakable reference to Socrates 
(^Apology 31 e) and apology for himself, knows that no 
politician is honest nor is there any champion of justice 
at whose side he may fight and be saved. He resem- 
bles a man fallen among wild beasts. He is unwilling 
to share and impotent singly to oppose their rapine. 
He is like one who in a driving storm of dust and sleet 
stands aside under shelter of a wall and seeing others 
filled full with all iniquity, must be content to live 
his own life, keep his soul unspotted from the world, 
and depart at last with peace and good will and gracious 
hopes. This is something. But how much more could 
he accomplish for himself and others, Plato wistfully 
adds, in a society in harmony with his true nature. 
And so he plays (it is his own word) with the construc- 
tion of such a state. But when the dream is finished, 
his epilogue is : We have built a city in words, since 
it exists nowhere on earth, though there may be a 



pattern of it laid up in heaven. But whether it exists 
or not, the true philosopher will concern himself with 
the politics of this city only, of this city only will he 
constitute himself a citizen. As Emerson puts it, he 
was born to other politics. The witty and cynical 
Lucian mocks at this city in the clouds where Socrates 
lives all alone by himself, governed by his own laws. 
And I have no time to answer him now, even by enum- 
eration of the great spirits who have taken refuge 
in the Platonic City of God. It was there that St. 
Augustine found consolation and hope in the crash 
and downfall of the Roman Empire. And fifteen 
hundred years later an unwonted glow suffuses the 
arid style of Kant when he speaks of the man who is 
conscious of an inward call to constitute himself by 
his conduct in this world the citizen of a better. 

But to those political and social philosophers who 
disdain a fugitive and cloistered virtue and ask for 
some more helpful practical lesson than this, Plato's 
Republic offers two main suggestions. 

The first is the way of St. Francis : the acceptance 
of the simple life, which by a startling coincidence 
Glaucon, in reply to Socrates, and the Pope, in remon- 
strance with St. Francis, designate as a city of pigs.** 
But if we insist on a sophisticated civilization, a 
fevered city as Plato styles it, we shall find no remedy 
for the ills to which human nature is heir so long as our 
guiding principle is the equality of unequals (558 c) and 
the liberty of every one to do as he pleases. The only 
way of political and social salvation for such a state is 
self-sacrificing discipline, specialized efficiency, and 
government administered by men whom we have 

" Matthew Paris apud Sabatier, Life of St. Francis, p. 97 
" vade frater et quaere porous («jc)," etc. 



educated for the function and whom we compel to be 

We shall not wrong them by this suppression of 
their lower selves. For they will find in it their 
highest happiness and so apprehend the full meaning 
of old Hesiod's saying that the half is more than the 
whole." All this, though often confounded with the 
gospel of the strong man, is in Plato's intentions its 
diametrical opposite. Plato's strong man is not, and 
is not permitted to be, strong for himself. And find- 
ing his own happiness in duty fulfilled he will procure 
through just and wise government as much happiness 
as government and education can bestow upon men. 
Plato never loses faith in the leadership of the right 
leaders nor in the government of scholars and idealists, 
provided always that the scholarship is really the 
highest and severest that the age can furnish, the 
idealism tempered by long apprenticeship to practical 
administration, and the mortal nature which cannot 
endure the temptations of irresponsible power held 
in check by self-denying ordinances of enforced 

Such scholars in politics and such idealists, and they 
only, can do for us what the practical politician and 
the opportunist who never even in dreams have seen 
the things that are more excellent, can never achieve. 
Think you (Rep. 500) that such a man, if called to the 
conduct of human affairs and given the opportunity 
not merely to mould his own soul but to realize and 
embody his vision in the institutions and characters of 
men, will be a contemptible artizan of sobriety and 
righteousness and all social and human virtue ? Will 
he not like an artist glance frequently back and forth 

« Cf. Rep. 419, 420 b, c, 466 b-c. 


from his model, the city in the clouds, home of the 
absolute good, the true and the beautiful, to the 
mortal copy which he fashions so far as may be in its 
image ? And so mixing and mingling the pigments 
on his palette he \\i\\ reproduce the true measure and 
hkeness of man which even old Homer hints is or 
ought to be the likeness of God. 

The Text 

Convention requires that something should be said 
about the text. How little need be said appears 
from the fact that the translation was originally 
made from two or three texts taken at random. The 
text of this edition was for convenience set up from 
the Teubner text, and the adjustments in either 
case have presented no difficulty. I have tried to 
indicate all really significant divergences and my 
reasons. That is all that the student of Plato's 
philosophy or literary art needs. 

The tradition of the text of the Republicis excellent." 
The chief manuscripts have been repeatedly collated, 
and the Republic has been printed in many critical 
editions that record variations significant and in- 
significant. The text criticism of Plato to-day is a 
game that is played for its own sake, and not for 
any important results for the text itself or the 
interpretation. The validity of a new text to-day 
depends far more on acquaintance with Platonic 
Greek and Platonic thought than on any rigour of 
the text-critical and palaeographic game. Nothing 
whatever results from the hundred and six pages of 
" Cf. the work of Alline referred to supra, p. xxv, note b. 



" Textkritik " in the Appendix to Professor Wila- 
mowitz's Platon. Adam repeatedly changed his 
mind about the readings of his preliminary text 
edition when he came to write his commentary, and 
with a candour rare in the irritabile genus of text 
critics withdrew an emendation which I showed to 
be superfluous by a reference to the Sophist. 

The Jowett and Campbell edition devotes about 
a hundred pages of costly print to what are for the 
most part unessential and uncertain variations. As I 
said in reviewing it (A.J.P. xvi. pp. 229 ff-) • " There is 
something disheartening in the exiguity of the out- 
come of all this toil, and one is tempted to repeat 
Professor Jowett's heretical dictum, that ' such 
inquiries have certainly been carried far enough and 
need no longer detain us from more important 
subjects.' There is really not much to be done with 
the text of Plato. The game must be played strictly 
according to the rules, but when it is played out we 
feel that it was hardly worth the midnight oil. The 
text of this edition must have cost Professor Campbell 
a considerable portion of the leisure hours of two or 
three years. Yet, as he himself says at the close of 
his interesting, if discursive, essay : ' Were the 
corruptions and interpolations of the text of the 
Republic as numerous as recent scholars have imagined, 
the difference of meaning involved would be still 
infinitesimal. Some feature of an image might be 
obscured, or some idiomatic phrase enfeebled, but 
Plato's philosophy would remain uninjured.' 

" Of the twelve passages which Professor Campbell 
regards as still open to suspicion (vol. ii. p. 115), 
only two affect the sense even slightly. 387 c 
cfiptTTeLv 8r) TTotet ws oierat, for which our editors read 



ws oTov T£ (which they refer to q, and the correction 
of Par. A by q, not to Par. A, as hitherto), rejecting 
Hermann's more vigorous ocr' erv; and not venturing 
to insert in the text L. C.'s suggestion, Jjs e'rea. 
In ix. 581 E, rvy? rjSovrj'i ov irdvv TToppw, there is no 
real difficulty if we accept, with nearly all editors, 
Graser's rl olwfiida and place interrogation points 
after fiavOdvovTa and -oppo). Professor Jowett would 
retain Trotw/xe^a and take the words t/)s t)8ovrj^ ov 
Trdi'v TToppd} as ironical ; I do not care to try to 
convert anyone whose perceptions of Greek style 
do not tell him that this is impossible. Professor 
Campbell's suggestion, -rj<; dX.y]6u-T}s, of which he 
thinks i']8ov?)^ a substituted gloss, does not aflfect the 
meaning and supplies a plausible remedy for the 
seemingly objectionable repetition of i)8oini^. But 
it is, I think, unnecessary. The Platonic philosopher 
thinks that sensual pleasures are no pleasures. Cf. 
Philebus 44 C uxTTe Kal airrb tovto avrrj'; to eTraywyov 
yoriTev[xa ov^ rjSovrfv eivai. The difficulties in 388 E, 
359 c, 567 E, 590 d, 603 c, 615 c are too trifling for 
further debate. 439 e Trore uKovo-as ti TricrTei'to rorrw is 
certainly awkward. L. C.'s suggestion, ov ttkttci'w 
TovToj, with changed reference of tovtw, equally so. 

533 E o av /JLOVOV dr^Aoi :rpo9 rrjv e^iv cra(f>rjy€ia o Aeyet 
ev xjyvxy is impossible, and the ingenuity is wasted 
that is spent upon it in the commentary to this 
result : ' An expression which may indicate with a 
clearness proportioned to the mental condition that 
of which it speaks as existing in the mind.' All we 
want is the thought of Charmides 163 d 6>}Aoi' Se 
fxovov ecf> 6 Ti ai' (fi€p7]<i Tovvo/xa on ai' keyij^, and that 
is given by the only tolerable text yet proposed, 
that of Hermann : d\k' o av /xovov 8i]\ol irpos rqv e^w 



<ra<ji7]veiav a Aeyet iv i^i'XS {apKecrii}, which is ignored 
by our editors and which is indeed too remote from 
the Mss. to be susceptible of proof. In 562 b the 
unwarranted virepTrXovros, which B. J. defends more 
suo, mav be emended by deleting vTrep or by L. C.'s 
plausible suggestion, irov ttAovtos. In 568 d L. C.'s 
suggestion, TrwAoi/jtei'wv, is as easy a way as any of 
securing the required meaning which grammar 
forbids us to extract from oLTroSo/xeviov. 

" Of the 29 passages in which the present text 
relies on conjectures by various hands, none affects 
the sense except possibly the obvious Traialv for iraa-iv 
(494 B and 431 c), Schneider's palmary koi irifxa 
fiaXuTTa for koI €ti [idXurTa, 554 B, Graser's ri 
olo)fj.(6a, 581 D, Vermehren's -x^aipMv kuI ^v<T^epaiv()}i', 
which restores concinnity in 401 e, and L. C.'s 8ia 
To{! bis, 440 c, for 6ia to, an emendation which was 
pencilled on the margin of my Teubner text some 
years ago. The others restore a paragogic 1/ or a 
dropped dv or an iota subscript, or smooth out an 
anacoluthon. Professor Campbell himself suggests 
some fifteen emendations in addition to the one 
admitted to the text (vol. ii. p. 1 23) ; three or four 
of these have already been considered. Of the 
others the most important are the (in the context) 
cacophonous u^tws, 496 a, for a^iov which is better 
omitted altogether, with Hermann ; eyyv<s n t€lv(du 
Twv Tou a-MpuTos fov €ivaL, 518 D, which is clever 
and would commend itself but for a lingering doubt 
whether the phrase had not a half-humorous sug- 
gestion in Plato's usage ; and 7} ovk (sic q) . . . 
dkXoLav T€ [Stallb. for roi] </)7yo-ets, 500 A. It is 
unnecessary to follow Professor Campbell in his 
recension of the superfluous emendations of Cobet, 



Madvig and others not admitted into the text. The 
man who prints an emendation that is not required 
but is merely possible Greek in the context is a 
thief of our time and should be suppressed by a 
conspiracy of silence. I could wish, however, that 
our editors had followed Hermann in admitting 
Nagelsbach's en dSwafiia, supported by a quotation 
from lamblichus, for err dSvya/jLia in 532 b-c. ctt' 
dSivaixia j3\e-eLi' ' to look powerlessly,' i.e. ' to be 
without the power to see,' as our editors construe, 
after Schneider, makes large demands on our faith 
in the flexibihty of Greek idiom, and Stallbaum's 
' bei dem Unvermogen zu sehen ' is not much 
better. Moreover, the Irt adds a touch that is 
needed; cf. 516 a -pCJrov fxlv, etc. For the rest, 
all this matter, with much besides, is conscientiously 
repeated in the commentary, though exhaustiveness 
is after all not attained, and many useful readings 
recorded in Stallbaum or Hermann are ignored. I 
have noted the following points, which might (^\"ithout 
much profit) be indefinitely added to. In 332 E no 
notice is taken of the plausible -poivoXejitlv approved 
by Ast and Stephanus, In 365 b kav p-q kuI Sokm, 
which has sufficient ms. authority, is better than iav 
Kal firj 8oKh). The thought is : ' I shall profit nothing 
from being just (even) if I seem the opposite.' 
What our editors mean by saying that e'av Kal fir} 
8oKU) is more idiomatic I cannot guess. In 365 d, 
Kttt (oL'8' Jowett and Campbell) I'jfuv ixeXqrtov row 
kavddveiv, I think the consensus of the mss. could be 
defended, despite the necessity for a negative that 
nearly all editors have felt here. The argument of the 
entire passage would run : There exist (1) political 
clubs cTTi TO Aav^aveiv, and (2) teachers of persuasion 



who will enable us to evade punishment if detected. 
But, you will say, we cannot (1) elude or (2) constrain 
the gods. The answer is (transferring the question 
to the higher sphere), as for gods, perhaps (1) they 
do not exist or are careless of mankind, or (2) can 
be persuaded or bought off by prayers and cere- 
monies. Accordingly, we must either (1) try to 
escape detection, as on the previous supposition, 
before the gods were introduced into the argument, 
or (2) invoke priests and hierophants as in the former 
case teachers of the art of persuasion. The logic of 
Kal rjfiLv jXiXrjTkov to{5 Aav^avfii' is loose, but it is quite 
as good as that of et fi-q elcriv as an answer to Beovs 
ovT€ Aai'^avftv Svvarov, and it is not absolutely neces- 
sary to read ov8\ ovkow ri or d/iekrjTeov. The koi 
of Kal rjfi.ii' indicates an illogical but perfectly natural 
antithesis between ' us ' on the present supposition 
and the members of the political clubs above. In 
378 D our editors follow Baiter in punctuating after 
ypaiKTi. The antithesis thus secured between TraiSia 
€v6v^ and 7rpecrf3vT€poi<i ytyi'o/xevots (an yei'o/xei'oi? ?) 
favours this. The awkwardness of the four times 
repeated ambiguous Kal, and the difficulty of the 
dative with AoyoTroteiv and the emphasis thus lost of 
the triplet Kal yepovcrt Kal ypavcrl Kal —pea-fSvTepots 
yiyofxivoL^ are against it. 397 a, L. G, accepts 
Madvig's (Schneider's ?) /^t/xTjcreTat for St7/y?^creTat, 
adversante B. J., but Stv/yvycrerai seems to be favoured 
by the balance of the sentence : Travra re fj.aXXov 

Str^yvycreTat Kal . , . olijcreTai wcrre Travra eTTi^^cipvycret 
fiLfxilcrdai. 442 C cro<f>ov 8e ye cKfiVoj tw a-p-iKpi^ jjLepei 
Tw 6 ^px^ t' iv avTW Kal ravra TrapqyyeXXev ^x^^ 
av KOKet.vo, etc. Our editors seem to feel no difficulty 
in the tw o, etc., nor do they note the omission of 



Tw by Par, K and Mon. A simple remedy would be 
to omit the tw before 5 and insert it after Trapn]y- 
ycAAer, reading rcj €X^"'- ^^ "^^1 A"^' ^^ reading oxttc 
ev (for ov) fj.€ irapafivOei, our editors, here as elsewhere, 
over-estimate the possibihties of Socratic irony. 
500 A. In arguing against the repetition of aAAotav in 
a different sense, 499 k-500 a, our editors should not 
have ignored the reading of M, aAA' o'lar (recorded, 
it is true, in the footnotes to the text), which, with 
the pointing and interrogation marks of Hermann, 
yields a much more \ivacious and idiomatic text than 
that adopted here. Moreover, aAAa u—oKpive'ia-tiai 
fits the defiant ovk av SoKel above much better if 
taken in the sense ' contradict us ' than in the sense 
' change their reply.' In 521 c Hermann's oicra 
€-avo8o9 (after lamblichus) is the only readable idio- 
matic text here. Only desperate ingenuity can con- 
strue the others. In 606 c the text or footnotes 
should indicate Hermann's 8r] (for Si), which the 
commentary' rightly prefers." 

These observations are not intended as a renewal 
of Jowett's attack on text criticism or an illiberal 
disparagement of an indispensable technique. They 
merely explain why it was not thought necessarv' to 
waste the limited space of this edition by reprinting 
information which would interest a half dozen 
speciaUsts at the most and which they know where to 
find in more detail than could possibly be given here. 

The Republic has been endlessly edited, commented, 
summarized, and paraphrased (cf. stipra, p. vii). The 
chief editions are enumerated in Ueberweg-Praechter, 
Die Philosophie des Altertums, 12th ed., Berlin (1926), 
pp. 190 ff. Schneidewin's edition is curt, critical, and 



sagacious. Stallbaum's Latin commentary is still 
useful for idioms and parallel passages. The two 
most helpful editions are English. The great three- 
volume work of Jowett and Campbell was critically 
reviewed by me in A.J.P. vol. xvi. pp. 223 ff., and 
from another point of view in the New York Nation, 
vol. Ixi. (1895) pp. 82-84. Adam's painstaking and 
faithful commentary does not supersede, but in- 
dispensably supplements, Jowett and Campbell's. 
Apelt's German translation is, with a few exceptions, 
substantially correct, and the appended notes supply 
most of the information which the ordinary reader 

The history of the Platonic text is most amply set 
forth in the excellent and readable book of AUine 
(Histoire du texte de Plaion, par Henri AUine, Paris, 
1915). Other general discussions of the text and its 
history are : H. Usener, Unser Platontext {Kleine 
Schriften, vol. ii. pp. 104-162) ; M. Schanz, Studien zur 
Geschichte des platonischen Textes, Wiirzburg, 1874 ; 
Wohlrab, " Die Platon-Handschriften und ihre gegen- 
seitigen Beziehungen," Jahrhucherfiir klassische Philo- 
logie, Suppl. 15 (1887), pp. 641-728. Cf. further 
Ueberweg-Praechter, vol. i., appendix pp. 67 fF. The 
manuscripts of Plato are enumerated end described 
by Jowett and Campbell, vol. ii. pp. 67-131, Essay 
II. " On the Text of this Edition of Plato's Republic " ; 
less fully by Adam, who did not live to write a pro- 
posed introductory volume supplementing his com- 
mentary (The Republic of Plato, vol. i. pp. xiii-xvi) ; 
and, sufficiently for the ordinary student, by Maurice i 
Croiset in the Bude Plato, vol. i. pp. 14-18. I, 

The best manuscript is thought to be Parisinus ' 
graecus 1807 (ninth century), generally designated! 

Hi ' 


have lost my voice." But as it is, at the very moment 
when he began to be exasperated by the course 
of the argument I glanced at him first, so that I 
became capable of answering him and said ^\ith a 
slight tremor : " Thrasyniachus, don't be harsh ^ with 
us. If I and my friend have made mistakes in the 
consideration of the question, rest assured that it is 
unwillingly that we err. For you surely must not 
suppose that while " if our quest were for gold <* we 
would never willingly truckle to one another and 
make concessions in the search and so spoil our 
chances of finding it, yet that when we are searching 
for justice, a thing more precious than much fine 
gold, we should then be so foolish as to give way to 
one another and not rather do our serious best to 
have it discovered. You surely must not suppose 
that, my friend. But you see it is our lack of ability 
that is at fault. It is pity then that we should far 
more reasonably receive from clever fellows like 
you than severity." 

XI. And he on hearing this gave a great guffaw and 
laughed sardonically and said, " Ye gods ! here we 
have the well-known irony * of Socrates, and I knew 
it and predicted that when it came to rephing you 
would refuse and dissemble and do anything rather 
than answer any question that anyone asked you." 
" That's because you are wise, ThrasjTnachus, and 
so you knew very well that if you asked a man how- 
many are twelve, and in putting the question warned 
him : don't you be telling me, fellow, that twelve 

589 E, 600 c-D, Crito 46 d, Zatrs 6 17 c, 931 c, Protag. 325 b-c, 
Phaedo 68 a, Thompson on Meno 91 e. 

"* 6/. Ilci a Jeit: fr. 22 Diets, and Ruskin, /Tf'n^'s TreasunVa 
"The physical type of wisdom, gold," Psalms xix. 10. 

' Cf. Syinp. 21 6 E, and Gomperz, Greek Thinkers iii. p. 277. 



fx,r]8 OTL rpls rirrapa /xtjS' ort e^a/ct? 8uo /xt^S' 
OTi TerpaKtg rpta* co? ouk aTToSe^o/xat ctou, ecti 
TOiavra (f)Xvapfjs' SrjXov, olfxai, aol ■^v otl ovSels 
aTTOKpivolro tw ovtio TTwdavofidvco. oAA' el aoi 
€L7T€v a> Qpaavfxaxe, ttws Xiyeis; fir] anoKpLvojixai 
0)v TTpoeiTTes ixrjSev; TTorepov, cS dav[xdaL€, /inyS 
ei TOVTcov Tt rvyxo.vei 6v, aXX erepov etVco rt, rov 

^ aAiqdovs; rj TTwg Xeyetg; ri du avTO) etTre? rrpos 
Tavra; Etev, €(f)r]- co? h-q op,oiov tovto eKeivoi. 
Ovoev ye KcoXvei, rjv 8' iyw- el 8' ovv /cat firj 
ecTTLv op.oLov, (f>aiveTai 8e to) epcoTr^Oivri tolovtov, 
rjTTov TL avTov oiet aTTOKpiveiadai to <f)aiv6pevov 
eavTO), edv re r]p,€LS aTrayopevcopLev idv re ^t^; 
AAAo Tt ow, e^Ty, /cat au ooto; Troti^crets; cSv eyw 
aTrecTTov, toutcov Tt dwoKpLvel; Ovk du davpdcraiiJii, 
rjv 8' eyttj, et /xot CT/cei/ra/xeVoj outco 8ofetev'. Tt 

^' ovv, €(f)rj, du iyd) 8ei^6L) irepau diroKpiaiv irapd 
TTaaas ravrag Trepl SLKaioauvqs ^eXrioj tovtcdv; 
Tt actors' TTadeiv; Tt dXXo, -^v 8' iyd), r] orrep 
TTpoa-qKei Trdax^iv ro) p,ri etSoTt; TrpoarJKeL 8e 
TTOV piadeiv TTapd rov et8oTOS" /cat eyco oyv' tovto 
a^idj nadelv. 'HSu? yap et, €(f>r]' dXXd rrpos tw 
p-adelv Kal diroTLOov dpyvpiov. Ovkovv iveiSav 
jLtoi yev7]Tai, eiTTov. 'AAA' eoTiv, €(f)-q 6 FXavKcov 

" In "American," "nerve." vSocrates' statement that 
the TraOeiv " due him " is /xaOelf (gratis) aflFects Thrasy- 
machus as the dicasts were affected by the proposal in the 
Apology that his punishment should be^to dine at the City 
Hall. The pun on the legal formula cculd he rep-->telj 
rendered : " In addition to the recoverij of your wits, you 
must pay a fine." Plato constantly harps on the taking 



is twice six or three times four or six times two 
or four times three, for I won't accept any such ' 
drivel as that from you as an answer — it was obvious 
I fancy to you that no one could give an answer to 
a question framed in that fashion. Suppose he had 
said to you, ' Thras}'machus, what do you mean ? 
Am I not to give any of the prohibited answers, not 
even, do you mean to say, if the thing really is one 
of these, but must I say something different from 
the truth, or what do you mean ? ' What would 
have been your answer to him ? " " Humph ! " 
said he, " how very like the two cases are ! " " There 
is nothing to prevent," said I ; " yet even granted 
that they are not alike, yet if it appears to the 
person asked the question that they are alike, do 
you suppose that he will any the less answer what 
appears to him, whether we forbid him or whether 
we don't ? " " Is that, then." said he, " what you 
are going to do ? Are you going to give one of the 
forbidden answers ? " "I shouldn't be surprised," 
I said, " if on reflection that would be my \iew." 
" What then," he said, " if I show you another 
answer about justice differing from all these, a better 
one — what penalty do you think you deserve ? " 
" Why, what else," said I, " than that which it 
befits anyone who is ignorant to suffer ? It befits 
him, I presume, to learn from the one who does 
know. That then is what I propose that I should 
suffer." " I like your simplicity," " said h " but 
in addition to ' learning ' you must pay a ^ of 
money." " Well, I will when I have got it," 1 id. 
" It is there," said Glaucon : " if money is all t.iat 

of pay by the Sophists, but Thrasymachus is trying to 



aAA' ev€Ka apyvplov, o) Qpaav^iax^, Aeye* TrdvTes 
yap rjfxelg HcoKpdrei etaotaojuev. Ilavu ye, oi/xat, 

E '^ 8' OS, Ivo. Scu/cpaTTj? TO elcodos htavpa^-qrat, 
avTOS fiev jxr] d.TTOKpivrjTai, aXXov S arroKpLVO- 
jxevov XafjL^dvrj Xoyov Kal iXeyxjj- Hois' yo.p dv, 
k^rjv eyo), c5 jSe'^TtCTxe, ns drroKpivaiTO Trpcbrov 
[lev fir] el8d)S p,rj8e (f)d(JKcov etSeVat, eiretra, et Tt 
Krai oterat nepl rovrcov, dTreiprjpievov avrcb elr], 
OTTCxis fJiTjSev ipel (Lv rjyelTai, V'n dvhpos ov (f)avXov; 
338 aAAa ae Si] fxaXXov et/co? Xeyeiv av yap S17 (f)f]g 
etSeVai /cat ^x^i^v eiTTelv. fir] ovv aAAcus' ttoUi, dXX 
ifioL T€ ;\;api^ou aTTOKpivojjLevos Kal jir] (f>6ovr]ar]s 
Kal TXavKcova rovBe SiSd^at Kal rovs dXXovs. 

XII. Wlttovtos Be ]iov ravra 6 re VXavKiav Kal 
ol dXXoL iheovro avrov firj aAAai? TroLelv Kat, 
Qpaavfiaxos (f)avep6s jiev r]V emdvfidjv emelv, iv 
evhoKLpL-qaeiev , 'qyovfievos ^x^tv d-noKpiaLV iray- 
KoXrfV' TrpoaeTToieiTO 8e ^iXoveiKeiv vpos to efie 
etvai Tov aTTOKpivofievov. TeXevTOiv he ^uj^ep^coprjae, 

B Kaireira AvTr] h-q, e(f)r], r] HwKpdTOVs cro(f>ia, avTOV 
(lev [ir] edeXeiv hihdoKeiv, Trapd he tcov dXXcov 
TTepuovTa fiavddveLV Kal tovtojv [xrjhe X^P^^ ano- 
StSdvcu. "0x4 ]i€V, "qv S' eyco, fiavddvoj Trapd tcjv 
aXXoiv, dXrjdfj eiTre?, c5 Qpaovfiax^' otl he ov fie 
4'V^ X^P''^ e/CTiVetv, tjjevhei. e/crtVcu yap bar]v 
hvvafiai' hvvafxaL he eTraivelv fiovov XP'^P-^'^^ V^P 
ovK ex(JO' (hs 8e TrpoOvfiojg tovto hpco, eav tls p-oi 
hoKj) ev Xeyeiv, ev elaei, avriKa hr] fidXa, eTreihdv 

C aTTOKpLvrj' otfiai ydp ae ev epelv. "Akovc hrj, rj 

""Grudging." Cf. Laches 200 b. " Of. Crof^J. 291 i^. 

« Socrates' poverty {Apol. 38 a-b) was denied by some later 
writers who disliked to have him classed with the Cynics. 



-tiinds in the way, Thrasymachus, go on with your 
speech. We will all contribute for Socrates." " Oh 
yes, of course," said he, " so that Socrates may 
contrive, as he always does, to evade answering 
himself but may cross-examine the other man and 
refute his repHes." " Why, how," I said, " my dear 
fellow, could anybodS' answer if m the first place 
he did not know and did not even profess to know, 
and secondly even if he had some notion of the 
matter, he had been told by a man of weight that 
he mustn't give any of his suppositions as an answer ? 
Nay, it is more reasonable that you should be the 
speaker. For you do affirm that you know and are 
able to tell. Don't be obstinate, but do me the 
favour to reply and don't be charj- "^ of your wisdom, 
and instruct Glaucon here and the rest of us." 

XII. When I had spoken thus Glaucon and the 
others urged him not to be obstinate. It was quite 
plain that Thrasymachus was eager to speak in order 
that he might do himself credit, since he believed that 
he had a most excellent answer to our question. 
But he demurred and pretended to make a point 
of my being the respondent. Finally he gave way 
and then said, " Here you have the \visdom of 
Socrates, to refuse himself to teach, but go about 
and learn from others and not even pay thanks* 
therefor." " That I learn from others," I said, " you 
said truly, Thrasymachus. But in saving that I do 
not pay thanks you are mistaken. I pay as much 
as I am able. And I am able only to bestow praise. 
For money I lack.<^ But that I praise right wilhngly 
those who appear to speak well you will well know 
forthwith as soon as you have given your answer. 
For 1 think that you will speak well." " Hearken 



S' OS. <f>rjyi\ yap iy<h etvai to BiKaiov ovk dXXo ti 


eTTatvels; dXX* ovk IdeXiqcjeis. 'Eav [xddoj ye 
TTpcbrov, k(f)'qv, ti Xiyets' vvv yap ovttco otSa. to 
Tou KpeiTTOVOS (f>lis ^vpicfiepov St/caiov etvaL. Kal 
TOVTo, c5 Spaavixaxe, tl ttot€ Xeyeis ; oi) yap ttov 
TO ye Toiovhe (j>ris' el YlovXvhdpias rjfxcov KpeiTTCov 
o TTayKpaTiaaTTjs Kai avTco ^Vfjicfyepei to. jSoeta Kpea 
D npos TO CT6u/xa, tovto to gltlov elvai Kal rjfjuv tols 
rJTTOGLV eKeivov ^vpL(^epov a/xa /cat hiKaiov. BSe- 
Xvpos yap et, e(f>rj, c5 HcoKpaTes, Kal TavTif] vtto- 
XapL^dvets , ■§ dv KaKovpyrjaais pudXiOTa tov Aoyor. 
OvhapLiLs, c5 dpioTe, ^v 8' eyoj' dXXd aa^ioTepov 
etTTe, Tt Aeyeis. H/tT ovk olgu , e<pT7, oti, tcov 
TToXeoiv at p,ev TvpavvovvTai, at Se 8r)p.oKpaTOvvTai, 
at Se dpLOTOKpaTOVVTai; Yicos ydp ov ; Ovkovv 

' For this dogmatic formulation of a definition c/. 
Theaetet. 151 e. 

* To idealists law is the perfection of reason, or vov 
diavofxri. Laws 714a; "her seat is the bosom of God" 
(Hooker). To the political positivist there is no justice 
outside of positive law, and " law is the command of a 
political superior to a political inferior." "Whatsoever 
any state decrees and establishes is just for the state while 
it is in force," Theaetet. 177 d. The formula "justice is the 
advantage of the superior" means, as explained in Laws 714, 
that the ruling class legislates in its own interest, that is, 
to keep itself in power. This interpretation is here drawn 
out of Thrasymachus by Socrates' affected misapprehen- 
sions (c/. further Pascal, Pensees iv. 4, "lacommodite du 
souverain." Leibniz approves Thrasymachus's definition: 
" justum potentiori utile . . . nam Deus ceteris potentior ! "). 

" The unwholesomeness of this diet for the ordinary man 
proves nothing for Plato's alleged vegetarianism. The 
Athenians ate but little meat. 



and hear then," said he. " I affirm that the just 
is nothing else than " the advantage of the stronger."* 
Well, why don't you applaud ? Nay, you'll do any- 
thing but that." " Pro\ided only I first understand 
vour meaning," said I ; " for I don't yet apprehend 
it. The advantage of the stronger is what you affirm 
the just to be. But what in the world do you mean 
by this ? I presume you don't intend to affirm this, 
that if Polydamas the pancratiast is stronger than 
we are and the flesh of beeves ' is advantageous for 
him, for his body, this \iand is also for us who are 
weaker than he both advantageous and just." " You 
are a buffoon,"* Socrates, and take my statement ' in 
the most detrimental sense." " Not at all, my dear 
fellow," said I ; " I only want you to make your 
meaning plainer."^ " Don't you know then," said 
he, " that some cities are governed by t}Tants, in 
others democracy rules, in others aristocracy ? " " 
" Assuredly." " And is not this the thing that is 

* The Greek is stronger — a beastly cad. A common term 
of abuse in the orators. Cf. Aristoph. Frogs 465, Theophrast. 
Char. xvii. (Jebb). 

• Cf. 392 c, 394 B, 424 c, Meno 78 c, Euthydem. 295 c, 
Gorg. 451 a 5t«ata;s iiroXaft^avfn, " you take my meaning 
fairly." For complaints of unfair argument cf. 340 d. Charm. 
166 c, Meno 80 a, Theaetet. 167 e, Oorg. 461 b-c, 482 e. 

' This is the point. Thrasymachus is represented as 
challenging assent before explaining his meaning, and 
Socrates forces him to be more explicit by jocosely putting 
a perverse interpretation on his words. Similarly in Gorg. 
451 E, 453 B, 489 d, 490 c, Lav:s 714 c. To the misunder- 
standing of such dramatic passages is due the impression 
of hasty readers that Plato is a sophist. 

' These three forms of government are mentioned by 
Pindar, Pyth. ii. 86, Aeschin. In Ctes. 6. See 445 d, Whib- 
ley, Or«ek Oligarehu*, and Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 62. 



TOVTO Kparet iv eKoiarr) TrdAet, to dpxov; Udvv ye. 
E TiOerat, 8e ye rovs vofiovs iKaarr) rj apxr) Trpos to 
avrfj ^vfji(f)€pov, hrjpiOKparia p,€v hripiOKpariKovs , 
Tvpavvls Se TvpavvLKovs , Kal at aAAat ovro) ' 6ep,€vai 
8e d'7T€(f)rjvav rovro hiKaiov toIs dp^opiivois elvai, 
TO a^iai ^vfx^epov, /cat rov tovtov cK^aivovTa 
KoXdl,ovaLV cos TTapavojjiovvTa t€ /cat aSLKOvvra, 
tout' ovv icrriv, c3 ^eXriare, o Xeyco iv ctTraaats 
339 Tat? TToAeat ravrov etvat Si'/catov, to rrjs KaQeaT-q- 
Kvias dpx'fjs ^vp,(f)€pov avrr] 8e ttov Kparel, cSotc 
^vpi^aivei t<x> opdws Xoyil^ofxivcp Ttavraxov elvai 
TO avTO SiKatov, to tov KpeiTTOvos ^vpL^ipov. 
Nw, Tfv 8' eyc6, ifiadov o Ae'yets" ei 8e dXrjdes rj 
yLTj, TreLpdaofjiai, fiadetv. to ^vficfiepov p,kv ovv, ol 
Qpacrufxax^, Kal av aTre/cptVco 8t/catov eti^af kultoi 
ejxoiye aTT-qyopeves ottcos {mt] tovto dTTOKpLvotfxrjV 
B TTpoaeaTi 8e 817 avTodi to tov KpeiTTovos- S/xt- 
Kpd ye tacos, e(f)7], TTpoad-qKr], Ovttio hrjXov ovh* 
el jjieydXr]- aAA' oTt jxev tovto OKerrTeov el dXrjdrj 
Xeyeis, SrjXov. eTretSr) yap ^vfxcf}epov ye Tt etvai 

" Kparei with emphasis to suggest Kpeirrtjjv. Of. Menex. 
238 D, Xen. Mem. i. 2. 43. Platonic dialectic proceeds by 
minute steps and linked synonyms. Cf. 333 a, 339 a. 342 c, 
346 A, 353 E, 354 a-b, 369 c, 370 a-b, 379 b, 380-381, 394 b, 
400 c, 402 D, 412 D, 433-434, 486, 585 c, Meno 77 a. Lysis 
215 B, where L. & S. miss the point. 

'' On this view justice is simply to voixlixov (Xen. Mem. iv. 
4. 12; cf. Gorg. 504 d). This is the doctrine of the "Old 
Oligarch," [Xen.] R^p. Ath. 2. Against this conception of 
class domination as political justice, Plato (Laws 713 ff.) and 
Aristotle {Pol. iii. 7) protest. Cf. Arnold, Culture and Anarchy. 



strong and has the mastery " in each — the ruling 
party?" "Certainly." " And each form of govern- 
ment enacts the laws with a \iew tqits own advantage, 
a democracy democratic laws and tyTanny autocratic 
and the others likewise, and by so legislating they . 
proclaim that the just for their subjects is that which ^ 
is for their — the rulers' — advantage and the man " 
who de\iates ^ from this law they chastise as a law- 
breaker and a wrongdoer. This, then, my good sir, 
is what I understand as the identical principle of 
justice that obtains in all states — the advantage 
of the established government. This I presume 
you vriW admit holds power and is strong, so that, 
if one reasons rightly, it works out that the just is 
the same thing ever}-where,*^ the advantage of the i 
stronger." " Now," said I, " I have learned your 
meaning, but whether it is true or not I have to try 
to learn. The advantageous, then, is also your 
reply, ThrasjTnachus, to the question, what is the 
just — though you forbade me to give that answer. 
But you add thereto that of the stronger." " A 
trifling addition** perhaps you think it," he said. 
" It is not yet clear * whether it is a big one either ; 
but that we must inquire Avhether what you say is 
true, is clear.* For since I too admit that the just 

chap. ii. : "We only conceive of the State as something 
equivalent to the class in occupation of the executive govern- 
ment " etc. 

* Thrasymachus makes it plain that he, unlike Meno (7 1 t), 
Euthyphro (5 ff.). Laches ( 19 1 e), Hippias {Hipp. Maj. 286 ff.\ 
and even Theaetetus ( 1 46 c-d) at firsC understands Uie nature 
of a definition. 

" C/. Laches 182 c. 

* For the teasing or challenging repetition cf. 394 b, 470 
B-c 487 E, 493 A, 500 s, 505 d, 514 s, 517 c, 523 a, 527 c. 
Lysis 203 b, Soph. O.T. 327. 

VOL. I X 49 


Kal iyoi oiJLoXoyci) ro StVatoi^, av 8e TrpoaTiOrjs KaC 
avTO (f)fjg elvai to tou Kpeirrovos , iy<x> Se dyvooj, 
aK€7TT€OV hrj . S/coTret, ecf)r). 

XIII. Tavr' earai, fjv 8' eycu. /cat /Aot eiTre* 
ou /cat TTeiOeaOai fievroi rols ap^ovoi hiKaiov (f)rjs 

C elvat; "Eycuye. Xldrepor 8e dvajjLdprrjToi eiaiv oi 
dp)(ovT€s €v rats trokeaiv iKdarms rj olol ti Kai 
ap.apreiv ; WdvTOis ttov, e(f)r], olol tl /cat a/xapreti'. 
OvKovi' iTTLx^tpovvreg vofiovs TLdevat tovs p.ev 
opddjg TLdeaai, tovs 8e TLvas ovk opddJs; Ot/xat 
eycoye. To 8e opdws dpa ro rd ^vpi^epovra earL 
rid^adai iavrols, ro 8e jxr) dpSdjs d^vp.<f)opa; 7) 
TTUis Xeyeig; Ovrcos. "A 8' dv dcouraL, TTOLr]r€Ov 
rols dpxofievoLs, /cat rovro iari ro hiKaLov; YicJs 

D ydp ov; Ov ixovov dpa hiKaLov eari Kara rov aov 
Aoyov TO TOU Kpeirrovos ^vpn^ipov TTOielv, aAAa 
/cat Touj'ai^Tiov' to ixtj ^vfX(f)€pov. Tt Aeyei? crv; 
ccf)!/]. "A art) Xeyeis, efioiye Sokco' oKOTTcbfiev 8e 
^iXriov. ovx d)p.oX6yrjrat, rovs dp^ovras tols 
dpxop.€i'OLs TTpoardrrovr as ttolclv drra eviore 8ta- 
fiaprdveLv rov iavrols ^eXriorov, d h dv npocr- 
rdrrcoGLV ol dp^ovres, hiKaLov elvai rols ap^opi^voLS 

" For Plato's so-called utilitarianism or eudaemonism see 
457 b, Unity of Plato's Thovglit, pp. 21-22, Gomperz, ii. 
p. 262. He would have nearly accepted Bentham's state- 
ment that while the proper end of government is the greatest 
happiness of the greatest number, the actual end of every 
government is the greatest happiness of the governors. Cf. 
Leslie Stephen, English Utilitarianism, i. p. 282, ii. p. 89. 

"" This profession of ignorance may have been a trait of 
the real Socrates, but in Plato it is a dramatic device for the 
evolution of the argument. 

" The argument turns on the opposition between the real 
(i.e. ideal) and the mistakenly supposed interest of the 
rulers. See on 334 c. 


is something that is of advantage " — but you are for 
making an addition and affirm it to be the advantage 
of the stronger, while I don't profess to know,^ we 
must pursue the inquiry. " Inquire away," he said. 
XIII. " I will do so," said I. '• Tell me, then ; you 
affirm also, do you not, that obedience to rulers is 
just ? " "I do." " May I ask whether the rulers in 
the various states are infallible '^ or capable sometimes 
of error ? " " Surely," he said, " they are hable to 
err." " Then in their attempts at legislation they 
enact some laws rightly and some not rightly, do 
they not?" "So I suppose." "And by rightly 
we are to understand for their advantage, and by 
WTongly to their disadvantage ? Do you mean that 
or not?" "That." "But whatever they enact"* 
must be performed by their subjects and is justice ? " 
" Of course." " Then on your theory it is just not 
only to do what is the advantage of the stronger but 
also the opposite, what is not to his advantage." 
" What's that you're saying ? « " he repUed. " What 
you yourself are saying,^ I think. Let us consider 
it more closely. Have we not agreed that the rulers 
in giving orders to the ruled sometimes mistake their 
o>vn advantage, and that whatever the rulers enjoin 
it is just for the subjects to perform ? Was not that 

<* Cf. supra 338 E and TheaeM. 177 d. 

• Ti XtyfLs av ; is rude. See Blaydes on Aristoph. Clouds 
1174. The suspicion that he is being refuted makes Thrasy- 
machus rude again. But cf. Euthydem. 290 e. 

' C/. Berkeley, Divine Visual Language, 13: "The con- 
clusions are yours as much as mine, for you were led to 
them by your own concessions." See on 33-t d. Ale. I. 112- 
1 13. On a misunderstanding of this passage and 344 e, 
Herbert Spencer (Data of Ethics, § 19) bases the statement 
that Plato (and Aristotle), like Hobbes, made state enact- 
ments the source of right and wrong. 



TTOieZv; raOr' ov^ (LfxoXoyrjTai; Ot/xat eycoye, £^17. 
E O'iov Toivvv, -qv 8' iyo), /cat to d^vfji(f)opa TTOietv 
Tot? dpxovaL re /cat Kpeirrooi St/catot' eu'at a>/i.o- 
XoyrjaOaL aoL, orav ol fxev ap^ovres o-Kovres /ca/ca 
auTot? TTpoaTdrro}aL, rois Se St/catov etv'at (f)fjs 
ravra TTOielv, d e/cetvot Trpoaera^av apa rore, d> 
ao(f)a)TaT€ Qpaavfiaxe, ovk dvayKatov avfx^atveLv 
avro ovTcoal 8i/catov eti^at TTOcelv Tovvavriov 7} o 
av Xeyeig; to yap tov KpeiTTOvos d^vpb^opov hrjTTOV 
340 TTpoCTTarTerat tols rJTTOGL TTOLelv. Nat jLta At , 
€cf)r], CO HojKpaTes, 6 WoXeixapxos , cra^ecrTaTa ye. 
Eat' av y , ^V*^> ovtO) [xapTVpT^arjg, 6 ViXeiTocfycov 
VTToXa^cov. Kat tl, €(f)r], SeZrai pidpTVpos ; avTOs 
yap SpaaujjLaxos 6p,oXoy€l tovs fi€v dpxovTas 
evLOTC eavTols /ca/ca Tr/DOCTrarret^, rot? 8e (^PX^' 
jjidvois StKaiov elvai raura ttolcIv. To yap Ta 
KeXevojxeva TToieLV, t5 HoXej-capx^, vtto tcov apxov- 
Tojv ^LKaLov eh'ai eOeTO Qpaavp.axos. Kat yap 
TO TOV KpeiTTOVOS, CO KX€LTO(f)(x)v , ^vpi^epov St/catov 
B etvat edsTO. TavTa 8e a/x<^oTepa 6ep.evos cu/xoAd- 
yrjaev av evioTe tovs KpciTTovs to. aurots' d^vpi(f)opa 
KeXeveiv tovs rjTTovs re /cat dpxoj-Uvovs TTOielv. 
e/c 8e TOVTCxiv tow ofioXoyidjv ov^ev fidXXov to tov 
KpeiTTOvos ^vpitjjepov hiKaiov av e'Lrj rj to fXT] 
^vix(f)epov. 'AAA', e^T] o KAetro^cDi', to tov KpeiT- 
Tovos ^vjji(f)epov eXeyev o rjyoLTO 6 KpeiTTOiv avTU) 

" Socrates is himself a little rude. 

* Cf. Gorgias 495 d. 

« Cf. Laches 215 e, Phaedo 62 e. 

'' It is familiar Socratic doctrine that the only witness 
needed in argument is the admission of your opponent. Cf. 
Gorg. 472 a-b. 

* TO, K€\€v6/j.eva iroutv is a term of praise for obedience to 



admitted ? " "I think it was," he replied. " Then 
vou will have to think,** I said, that to do what is dis- 
advantageous to the rulers and the stronger has been 
adnnitted by you to be just in the case when the 
rulers unwittingly enjoin what is bad for themselves, 
while you affirm that it is just for the others to do 
what they enjoined. In that way does not this con- 
clusion inevitably follow, my most sapient * Thrasy- 
machus, that it is just to do the very opposite "^ of what 
vou say ? For it is in that case surely the dis- 
advantage of the stronger or superior that the 
inferior are commanded to perform." " Yes, by Zeus, 
Socrates," said Polemarchus, " nothing could be 
more conclusive." " Of course," said Cleitophon, 
breaking in, " if you are his \\itness." '^ " Wliat need 
is there of a witness? " Polemarchus said. " Thrasy- 
machus himself admits that the rulers sometimes 
enjoin what is evil for themselves and yet says that 
it is just for the subjects to do this." " That, 
Polemarchus, is because Thras}TTiachus laid it dovm 
that it is just to obey the orders ' of the rulers." 
" Yes, Cleitophon, but he also took the position 
that the advantage of the stronger is just. And 
after these two assumptions he again admitted that 
the stronger sometimes bid the inferior and their 
subjects do what is to the disadvantage of the rulers. 
And from these admissions the just would no more 
be the advantage of the stronger than the contrary." 
" O well," said Cleitophon. " by the advantage of the 
superior he meant what the superior supposed to be 

lawful authorit}-, and of disdain for a i>eople or state that 
takes orders from another. Cleitophon does not apprehend 
the argument and, thinking only of the last clause, reaffirms 
the detinition in the form " it is just to do what rulers bid." 
Polemarchus retorts : '* And (I was right,) for he (also) . . ." 



^vijt.(f)epei.v' rovTO TTOirjTeov etvai tco tjttovi, koi to 
hiKaiov TOVTO irldero. 'AAA' ovx ovrcos, rj S' o? 

C d YloXefjiapxos, iXeyero. OuSeV, rjv 8' eyco, cL 
UoXefiapx^ > ?iLa(f>€peL, dAA' et vvv ovtco Ae'yet 
QpaavfMaxos, ovrcos avrov a.TToSexc^P'^da. 

XIV. Kai [XOL elire, w Qpaavp,a)(€- rovro rjV o 
i^ovXov Xeyeiv to St/catoi/, to rov Kp^iTTOvos ^vp,- 
c/yepou 80KOVV etvai to) KpeiTTOvi, idv re ^vpcfieprj 
idv T€ pij; OVTW oe (jicopev Xiyeiv; "H/ctcrTa y', 
e</)7j' dAAd KpeLTTco pe olei KaXelv tou €^ap,apTd- 
vovTa, orav c^apapTavr] ; "Kycoye, €L7tov, a>p,t]i' 
ae TOVTO Xeyeiv, ot€ tou? dp^ovras (hpLoXoyeis ovk 

D dvap,apTT^TOVs elvat, dXXd ti /cat e^apapTdveiv . 
JLvKO(f)dvTr]s yap el, e.(j>rj, a) Sctj/cpares', ev rot? 
Adyots" eVet avTiKa larpov KaXelg av tov i^ap,ap- 
rdvovTa irepi, tovs KapivovTas KaT avTO tovto o 
€^ap,apTdv€t ; 7) XoytOTtKov, o? dv iv XoyLopcp 
dpiaprdvrj, TOTe OTav dpapTdvrj, Kara TavTrjv t7]v 
dpapTLav ; dXX , oipai, Xeyopev Tip prjpiaTL ovtcos, 
OTL 6 laTpos i^-qpapTe /cat d XoyLaTTjs e^rjpLapTe 
/cat d ypapLpaTLGT-qs' to 8\ ot/xat, eKaoTos tovtidv, 

^ /ca^' oaov tout' eoTiv o Ttpoaayopevopev avTOv, 
ovSeTTOTe dpaprdvei djCTTe Kara tov aKpi^rj Xoyov, 
eTTeihr] /cat av aKpi^oXoyel, ovSels Tajv- 8rjp.Lovpya)v 

" Socrates always allows his interlocutors to amend their 
statements. Cf. Gorg. 491 b, 499 b, Protag. 349 c, Xen. Mem. 
iv. 2. 18. 

*■ Thrasymachus rejects the aid of an interpretation which 
Socrates would apply not only to the politician's miscalcula- 
tions but to his total misapprehension of his true ideal 
interests. He resorts to the subtlety that the ruler qua ruler 
is infallible, which Socrates meets by the fair retort that the 
ruler gwa ruler, the artist qua artist has no "sinister" or 
seltish interest but cares only for the work. If we are to 




for his advantage . This was what the inferior had to do, 
and that this is the just was his position." " That isn't 
what he said," rephed Polemarchus. " Never mind, 
Polemarchus," said I, "but if that is Thrasymachus's 
present meaning, let us take it from him "in that sense. 

" XIV. So tell me, Thras^Tnachus, was this what 
you intended to say, that the just is the advantage 
of the superior as it appears to the superior whether 
it really is or not ? Are we to say this was your 
meaning ? " " Not in the least," he said ; * "do you 
suppose that I call one who is in error a superior when 
he errs ? " "I certainly did suppose that you meant 
that," I replied, " when you agreed that rulers are 
not infalHble but sometimes make mistakes." " That 
is because you argue like a pettifogger, Socrates. 
\Miy, to take the nearest example, do you call one 
who is mistaken about the sick a physician in respect 
of his mistake or one who goes ^\Tong in a calculation 
a calculator when he goes wrong and in respect of 
this error ? Yet that is what we say literally — we 
say that the physician <= erred and the calculator and 
the schoolmaster. But the truth, I take it, is, that 
each of these in so far as he is that which we 
entitle him never errs ; so that, speaking precisely, 
since you are such a stickler for precision ,** no crafts- 
substitute an abstraction or an ideal for the concrete man 
we must do so consistently. Cf. modern debates about the 
" economic man.'' 

* For the idea r/. Rousseau's Em He, i. : " On me dira . . . que 
les fautes sent du medecin, mais que la medicine en elle-meme 
est infaillible. A la bonne heure : mais qu'elle viennedonc sans 
le medecin." Lucian, De Parasilo 54,parodies this reasoning. 

"* F'or the invidious associations o(dKpi3o\o~,ia (1) in money 
dealings, (2) in argument, cf. Aristot. Met. 995 all, Cratyl. 
415 a, Lysias vii. 12, Antiphon B 3, Dcmosth. xxiii. 148, 
Timon in Diog. Laert. ii. 19. 



aiiaprdvei. im,XenTOvarjs yap iTnaTrjfx-qs 6 d/xap- 
rdvcov dfxaprdvei, iv a) ovk ecrri SrjpLLOvpyos' ayare 
BrjULovpyos t) crof^o? rj dpxcov ousels' dpLaprdvei 
Tore orav dp^oiv 17, dAAa Tra? y dv clttoi, on 6 
larpos r]fiapr€ Kal 6 dp)(^cov rjp.apTe. tolovtov 
ovv hri aoL kol e/xe VTToXa^e vvv Srj aTTOKpiveadaf 
TO Se aKpi^iararov eKelvo Tvyxctvei 6v, tou 
341 dpxpvra, Kad' oaov dp^oiv ian, fxrj dixaprdvetv, 
p,r) dfiaprdvovTa Se to avTO) ^cXtlgtov TiOeadat, 
TOVTO 8e TO) dpxofievo) TTOLrjTeov waTe, OTrep i^ 
dpxy]S eXeyov, SuKaLov Xeycv to tov KpeiTTOvos 
TTOielv avpi(f>epov. 

XV. YIev, riv 8' eyco, J) Spaavfiax^' Sokco ctoi 
(jVKO(f)avT€iv; Ilai'i' pikv ovv, €(f)r). O'Ul ydp fxe 
€^ iiTL^ovXrjs iv TOLs Xoyois KaKovpyovvTd ae 
ipeadai d)S yjpdfirjv; Kv jxev oSv otSa, €(f>rj' Kal 
ov8ev ye aoL ttXIov earaf ovTe ydp dv fie XddoLs 

B KaKovpyoJV, ovTe jxrj XaOdw ^idcraadaL tw Xoyco 
Bvvaio. Ovhe y dv eTTLX^ip'qaaLfjit, -qv 8' eycx). 
c3 /xa/capie. aAA' Iva jjirj avdts rfplv tolovtov 
iyyevr)TaL, 8topicrat, rroTepcos Xeyeis tov dpxovTd 
T6 /cat TOV KpetTTOva, TOV ojs erros elrrelv t] tov 
dKpi^el Xoyo), ov^ vvv Srj eXeyes, ov to ^vix(f>epov 
KpeiTTOvos ovTOs SiKaiov eoTai tco i^ttovl TTOielv. 
Tov T<x) aKpi^euTdTO), ecfy-q, Xoyco dpxovra ovTa. 
TTpos TavTa KaKovpyei Kal (TVKO(f)dvTeL, et ti 

C Bvvaaai' ovSev aov TrapiefxaL' dXX ov {jlt] olos t 

^ tv probable conjecture of Benedictus : mss. 5. 

" Cf. 365 D. 

* i.e., the one who in vulgar parlance is so ; cf. n^ pruj-art, 
340 D, 


man errs. For it is when his knowledge abandons 
hini that he who goes ^^Tong goes \^Tong — when he 
is not a craftsman. So that no craftsman, wise man, 
or ruler makes a mistake then when he is a ruler, 
though everybody would use the expression that 
the physician made a mistake and the ruler erred. 
It is in this loose way of speaking, then, that you 
must take the answer I gave you a httle while ago. 
But the most precise statement is that other, that 
the ruler in so far forth as ruler does not err, and not 
erring he enacts what is best for himself, and this 
the subject must do, so that, even as I meant from 
the start, I say the just is to do what is for the 
advantage of the stronger." 

XV. " So then, Thrasymachus,"said I, " my manner 
of argument seems to you pettifogging ? " " It does," 
he said. " You think, do you, that it was with 
malice aforethought and trying to get the better of 
you unfairly that I asked that question ? " "I don't 
think it, I know it," he said, " and you won't make 
anything by it, for you won't get the better of me 
by stealth and, failing stealth, you are not of the force" 
to beat me in debate." " Bless your soul," said I, 
" I wouldn't even attempt such a thing. But that 
nothing of the sort may spring up between us again, 
define in which sense you take the ruler and stronger. 
Do you mean the so-called ruler * or that ruler in 
the precise sense of whom you were just now telhng 
us, and for whose advantage as being the superior 
it Mill be just for the inferior to act ? " "I mean 
the ruler in the very most precise sense of the word," 
he said. " Now bring on against this yoiu- ca\ils 
and your shyster's tricks if you are able. I ask 
no quarter. But you'll find yourself unable." 



1)5. Otei yap av fie, elrrov, ovtcd /jiaurjvai, caare 
gvpeiv €in)(€(,p€LP Xeovra koi avKO(f)avTelv Qpaav- 
fxaxov; Nw yovv, e(j)r], eTrex^lp-qaas, ovhev wv 
Kai ravra. "ASrju, rjv 8' iyd), rGiv tolovtcov. dAA' 
€1776 /jLOi- o Tcii OLKpL^eL Xoycx) laTpos, ov dpTi 
eXeyes, Ttorepov XRVI^^'^'-^'^V^ eariv •^ rcJov Kap,v6v- 
Tiov depanevTijg ; Kal Xdye top tu> ovtl larpov 
ovTa. TcDi/ KaiMVOvTCov, €(j)rj, depajrevT'qg. Ti Se 
Kv^epvqrrjs ; 6 opdcos Kv^epvqrrjs t'auTcSi^ ap^oiv 

D eariv r^ vavTrjs; Navrcvv apxoiv. OvSev, otfiai, 
TOVTO VTToXoyLGTeov , on TrXel iu rfj vrfC, ouS' eVrt 
KXrjrdos vavrr]^- ov yap Kara to TrXelv KV^epi'Tjrrjs 
KaXelraL, dXXa Kara ttjv re)(yr]v /cat Tr]v ru)V 
vavrcju ap)(r]v. ^AXr)drj, €(f)r]. Ovkovv eKdaro) 
Tovrcov eari tl ^vfj,(f)epov ; riap'U ye. Ov Kal -q 
rexvr], '^i^ S* dy<^> ctti tovto) ni^vKev, iirl rw to 
^vp.(f>ipov eKaaTcp t^rjTeZv re /cat eKTTopit,€iv; 'Etti 
TOVTO), €(f)r]. 'Ap' ovv Kal iKaaTrj tcov Texvcov 
eoTL TI, ^vpLcjiipov dXXo t) o tl /xaAicrra reAeat' 

E elvai; Hcvs tovto epcjTas; "Qanep, ecjuqv eyoi, 

" A rare but obvious proverb. C/. Schol. ad loc. and 
Aristides, Orat. Plat. ii. p. 143. 

* Kai ravra — idque, normally precedes (cf. 404 c, 419 e, 
etc.). But Thrasymachus is angry and the whole phrase is 
short. Commentators on Aristoph. Wasps 1184, Frogs 704, 
and Acharn. 168 allow this position. See my note in A.J. P. 
vol. xvi. p. 234. Others : " though you failed in that too." 

" Cf. infra 54:1 b, Euthyphro 11 e, Charm. 153 n. 

■* Plato, like Herodotus and most idiomatic and elliptical 
writers, is content if his antecedents can be fairly inferred 
from the context. Cf. 330 c rodro, 373 c, 396 b, 598 c 
rtxvCov, Protag. 327 c. 

• Pater, Plato and Platonism, p. 242, fancifully cites this 
for " art for art's sake." See Zeller, p. 605. Thrasymachus 



"Why, do you suppose," I said. " that I am so mad 
as to try to beard a Uon ^ and try the pettifogger on 
Thrasymachus ? " " You did try it just now," he 
said, " paltry fellow though you be." * " Something 
too much "^ of this sort of thing," said I. " But tell 
me, your physician in the precise sense of whom you 
were just now speaking, is he a moneymaker, an 
earnerof fees, or a healer of the sick ? And remember 
to speak of the physician who is really such," " A 
healer of the sick," he replied. " And what of the 
pilot — the pilot rightly so called — is he a ruler of 
sailors or a sailor ? " "A ruler of sailors." " We 
don't, I fancy, have to take into account the fact that 
he actually sails in the ship, nor is he to be de- 
nominated a sailor. For it is not in respect of his 
sailing that he is called a pilot but in respect of his 
art and his ruhng of the sailors." " True," he said. 
" Then for each of them <^ is there not a something 
that is for his advantage?" "Quite so." "And 
is it not also true," said I, " that the art naturally 
exists for this, to discover and provide for each his 
advantage ? " " Yes, for this." " Is there, then, 
for each of the arts any other advantage than to be 
as perfect as possible * .'* " " What do you mean by 

does not understand what is meant by saying that the art 
( = the artist qua artist) has no interest save the perfection 
of its (his) own function. Socrates explains that the body 
by its very nature needs art to remedy its defects (Herod, 
i. 32, Lysis 217 b). But the nature of art is fulfilled in its 
service, and it has no other ends to he accomplished by 
another art and so on ad infinitum. It is idle to cavil and 
emend the text, because of the shift from the statement 
(341 d) that art has no interest save its perfection, to the 
statement that it needs nothing except to be itself (342 a-b). 
The art and the artist qua artist are ideals whose being by 
hypothesis is their perfection. 



et jj.€ epoLo, el i^apKel aonxari etvat, aajfiari t) 
TTpoaheiTai tlvos, etVot/x' av on iravraTraai p-ev 
ovv TTpoahelrai. 8ia ravra /cat rj rex^r] iariv 17 
larpiKT] vvv evpr]pievrj, otl crcJopid iari, TTOirqpov 
/cat ovK i^apKet avro) roiovrw elvai. rovrcp ovv 
oTTCos €KTTopit,ri TO, ^vp.(f)€povTa, ivl rovTw TTap- 
ea-Keudadr] 7) rex^r]. ■^ opdojs o-ot SoarcD, €^171^, 
342 at- elnelv ovtco Xeycov, -q ov; *Op6cos, ecft-q. Ti 
Se 87); avrrj rj larpLKri iari TTOvrjpd, rj aXXr] rt? 
rexvn) ecrd" 6 tl npoaSeXraL rivos apeTTJs, coavep 
d(/)^aA/xot oijjeojs /cat cSra olkotjs /cat 8ta ravra en 
avrols Set rivos rexvr]? rrjs to ^vpi(f)epov et? raura^ 
OKeifjop^ivris re /cat eKTropiovcT-qg^ ; dpa /cat ev 
avrfj rfi rexvrj evi rt? TTOvrjpla, /cat 8et eKaarrj 
rexvr) aAArj? rexvr]S, Wts avrfj ro ^vpL(f)epov oKe- 
tjjerai, /cat rfj aK07T0vp.evr) erepag av roiavrrjs, 
/cat rovr eariv diTepavrov; 7) avrT] avrfj ro gvp,- 

B (f>epov cTKei/rerat ; rj ovre avrrjs ovre dX/\r]s Trpoa- 
Selrai eirl rr]v avrrjs irovripiav ro ^vp^^epov 
aKoneiv ovre yap TTOvrjpia ovre dp^apria ovhep-ia 
ouSe/xia rex^rj Trdpeariv, ovhe TrpoarjKeL rex^r) 
ctAAo) ro ^vp-cbepov t,rjrelv TJ eKeivip ov rex^f] eariv, 
avrrj he d^Xaf^rjg /cat a/cepato? eariv opdr] ovoa, 
eojcjTTep av fj eKacrrr] dKpt^rjs oXrj rj-nep eon; /cat 
OKOTTei, e/cetVoj ro) dKpi^et Xoycp- ovrws t] dXXcos 
e^et; Ovrcos, ^'^17, (f)ai.verat. OvK dpa, 77V 8' 

C iyo), larpLKYj larptKfj ro ^vp.(f)€pov aKonel aXXa 
acupiarL. Nat, £^17. OvSe 'nnnKrj lirTrLKfj dAA 
Ittttols' ovhe dXXr] Texvq ov8ep,ta eavrfj, ov8e 

* A. M. Burnet improbably reads avra ravra with FD. 
* The future (q) is better than the present (A112). 



that question ? " " Just as if," I said, " you should 
ask me whether it is enough for the body to be the 
body or whether it stands in need of something else, 
I would reply, ' By all means it stands in need. 
That is the reason why the art of medicine has now 
been invented, because the body is defective and 
such defect is unsatisfactory. To proWde for this, 
then, what is advantageous, that is the end for which 
the art was devised.' Do you think that would be 
a correct answer, or not ? " " Correct," he said. 
" But how about this ? Is the medical art itself 
defective or faulty, or has any other art any need of 
some virtue, quality, or excellence — as the eyes of 
\ision, the ears of hearing, and for this reason is 
there need of some art over them that will consider 
and provide what is advantageous for these very 
ends — does there exist in the art itself some defect 
and does each art require another art to consider its 
advantage and is there need of still another for the 
considering art and so on ad infinitum, or will the art 
look out for its own advantage ? Or is it a fact that 
it needs neither itself nor another art to consider its 
advantage and provide against its deficiency ? For 
there is no defect or error at all that dwells in any 
art. Nor does it befit an art to seek the advantage 
of anything else than that of its object. But the art 
itself is free from all harm and admixture of evil, and 
is right so long as each art is precisely and entirely 
that which it is. And consider the matter in that 
' precise ' way of speaking. Is it so or not ? " " It 
appears to be so," he said. " Then medicine," said I, 
" does not consider the advantage of medicine but of 
the body ? " " Yes." " Nor horsemanship of horse- 
manship but of horses, nor does any other art look out 



yap TTpoaSeiTat, dAA' eKeivcp oS rexvr] eariv. 
OaiVerai, e07^, ovtcos. 'AAAa jU.Tyv', a> Qpaavfjiax^, 
apxoval ye at rexyat Koi Kparovaiv eKeivov, ovirep 
€L(7L rexvai. Yivvexcoprjcrev ivravOa Kai /xctAa jxoyLg. 
OvK apa ijTLar'qiJ.rj ye ovSepta to rod Kpeirrovos 
^vfxcj)€pov OKOTTeZ oj)8' €7nrdTT€i, dAAa to tov 
•D rJTTovo? re /cat dpxop.€Vov vtto iavrrjs. Hur- 
ojfxoXoyrjae fiev /cat raura reXevTOjv, erre^^etpet 8e 
TTepl avrd /xctp^eo-^ai • erreLhrj 8e wp-oXoyqaev, 
"AAAo Tt ow, i^i' S' iyco, ovSe larpos ouSet?, Ka9 
oaov tarpon, ro r(x> larpo) ^vpi^epov aKorrel ovS 
eTrtTctTTet, dAAd to to) KapLVOvri; cu/xoAdyryTai 
yap 6 aKpL^rjs larpos acofxarcov elvaL dpxojv dAA 
ov ;)^/3r^^aTtcrT'»ys'. rj ovx (v fxoXoyrjr at ; avv€(f)rj. 
OvKovv Kal 6 KV^epv-qrrjs 6 aKpi^rjs vavrcjv elvai 
^ dpxcov dAA' ov vavriqg; ' QfioXoy-qraL . Ovk dpa 
6 ye roiovros Kv^epvT^rrjg re /cat dpxojv ro rco 
Kv^epVT^rrj ^vpL(^epov OKeiperal re /cat Trpoard^ei, 
dAAd TO rip vavrrj re /cat dpxofievo). "Rvveffy-qae 
pLoyis. OvKovv, rjv 8' eyco, w Qpaavfxax^, ov8' 
dXXos ovSels ev ovSefxia dpxfj, /ca^' oaov dpxojv 
eari, ro avrco ^vfx(f)epov oKOTrel ou8' emrdrrei, 
dAAd ro roi dpxop^evcp /cat ch dv auro? Srjfxtovpyfj, 
/cat TTpos eKeZvo ^XeTTCov /cat ro e/cetVo) ^up(l>epov 
/cat TTperrov, Kal Xeyei a Xeyei /cat rroLel a TTOtet 
343 XVI. 'ETretSi^ ovv evravda rjpiev rov Adyou /cat 

" The next step is the identification of (true) politics with 
the disinterested arts which also rule and are the stronger. 
Cf. Xen. Mem. iii. 9. 11. ye emphasizes the argumentative 
implication of dpxovai to which Thrasymachus assents 
reluctantly; and Socrates develops and repeats the thought 




for itself — for it has no need — but for that of which 
it is the art." "So it seems," he rephed. " But 
surely," Thras}Tnachus, the arts do hold rule and are 
stronger than that of which they are the arts." He 
conceded this but it went very hard. " Then no 
art considers or enjoins ^ the advantage of the stronger 
but every art that of the weaker which is ruled by it." 
This too he was finally brought to admit though he 
tried to contest it. But when he had agreed — " Can we 
deny, then," said I, " that neither does any physician 
in so far as he is a physician seek or enjoin the 
advantage of the physician but that of the patient } 
For we have agreed that the physician, ' precisely ' 
speaking, is a ruler and governor of bodies and not 
a money-maker. Did we agree on that ? " He 
assented. " And so the ' precise * pilot is a ruler of 
sailors, not a sailor ? " That was admitted. " Then 
that sort of a pilot and ruler will not consider and 
enjoin the advantage of the pilot but that of the sailor 
whose ruler he is." He assented reluctantly. "Then," . 
said I, " Tlirasjinachus, neither does anyone in anyf ■ 
office of rule in so far as he is a ruler consider and 
enjoin his own advantage but that of the one whom 
he rules and for whom he exercises his craft, and he 
k^eps his eyes fixed on that and on what is advan- 
tageous and suitable to that in all that he says and 

XVI. When we had come to this point in the dis- 

for half a page. Art is virtually science, as contrasted with 
empiric rule of thumb, and Thrasymachus's infallible rulers 
are of course scientific. " Ruler " is added lest we forget the 
analogy between political rule and that of the arts. Cf. 
Newman, Introd. Aristot. Pol. 244, Ijaics 875 c. 

* It is not content with theoretic knowledge, but like other 
arts gives orders to achieve results. Cf. Politicua 260 a, c. 



TTdai KaTa(f)av€s ■^v, on 6 rod BtKatov Xoyos et? 
TovvavTLOV nepLeiarT^Kei, 6 Qpaavfiaxos olvtI rov 
anoKpiveadai, EtTre /i,oi, e^>7, c5 HcoKpares, TLrdr] 
aoL eaTLv; Tt 84; -^v 8' iyu)- ovk aTTOKpiveaQai 
XP'^v p.dXXov rj TOiavra epojrav; "On rot ae, e(f)r], 
Kopvl,cJL)vra Trepiopa koI ovk anopivrTei, Seofxevov, 
OS ye avrfj ouSe Trpo^ara ovSe irocfieva yiyvaxTKeis. 
"On Srj ri pLaXicrra; rjv 8' eyco "On olei tovs 

B TTOipbivas rj tovs ^ovkoXovs to tcov TTpo^aTCOv rj to 
Tcuv ^ocov dyadov aKonelv Kal Tra)(vveiv avTovs 
/cat depaTvevecv rrpos dWo tl ^XinovTas rj to TOiv 
SeaTTOTcov dyadov /cat to avrajv /cat Srj /cat tovs 
ev Tols TToXecTLv dpxovTas, ol chs dXrjdcbs dp^ovaiv, 
dXXcos TTOis rjyel SiavoeiaOai. npos tovs dpxopivovs 
rj ctJCTTre/j dv tls Trpos npo^aTa Stare^eti], Kat aAAo 
Tl OKOTTetv avTovs Std vvKTOs /cat rjfxepas •^ tovto 

C odev avTol co^eATjaovrat. /cat ovtco iroppcx) el nepi 

" Thrasymachus first vents his irritation by calling 
Socrates a snivelling innocent, and then, like Protagoras 
{Protag. 334), when pressed by Socrates' dialectic makes a 
speech. He abandons the abstract (ideal) ruler, whom he 
assumed to be infallible and Socrates proved to be dis- 
interested, for the actual ruler or shepherd of the people, 
who tends the flock only that he may shear it. All political 
experience and the career of successful tyrants, whom all 
men count happy, he thinks confirms this view, which is 
that of Callicles in the Gorgias. Justice is another's good 
which only the naive and "innocent" pursue. It is better 
to inflict than to suffer wrong. The main problem of the 
Republic is clearly indicated, but we are not yet ready to 
debate it seriously. 

^ Kopv^uivra L. & S., also s.v. xdpv^a. Lucian, Lexiphanes 
18, treats the expression as an affectation, but elsewhere 
employs it. The philosophers used this and similar terms 


cussion and it was apparent to everybody that his 
formula of justice had suffered a reversal of form, 
Thras)Tiiachus, instead of replying,** said, " Tell me, 
Socrates, have you got a nurse ? " " What do you 
mean?" said I. "Why didn't you answer me 
instead of asking such a question ? " " Because," he 
said, " she lets her Httle ' snotty ' run about drivel- 
ling ^ and doesn't wipe your face clean, though you 
need it badly, if she can't get you to know '^ the 
difference between the shepherd and the sheep." 
" And what, pray, makes you think that ? " 
said I. " Because you think that the shepherds 
and the neat-herds are considering the good of 
the sheep and the cattle and fatten and tend 
them with anything else in view than the good of 
their masters and themselves ; and by the same token 
you seem to suppose that the rulers in our cities, I 
mean the real rulers,** differ at all in their thoughts 
of the governed from a man's attitude towards his 
sheep * or that they think of anything else night and 
day than the sources of their own profit. And you 

(1) of stupidity, (2) as a type of the minor ills of the flesh. 
Horace, Sat. i. 4. 8, ii. 2. 76, Epictet. i. 6. 30 d\X' ai fj-v^ai 
fiov peovcn, 

* Literally, " if you don't know for her." For the ethical 
dative cf. Shakes. Taming of the Shrew, i. ii. 8 " Knock m« 
here soundly." Not to know the shepherd from the sheep 
seems to be proverbial. " Shepherd of the people," like 
" survival of the fittest," may be used to prove anything in 
ethics and politics. Cf. Newman, Introd. Aristot, Pol. p. 
431, Xen. 3/m. iii. 2. 1, Sueton. Vit. Tib. 32, and my note 
in Class. Phil. vol. i. p. 298. 

•* Thrasymachus's real rulers are the bosses and tyrants. 
Socrates' true rulers are the true kings of the Stoics and 
Ruskin, the true shepherds of Ruskin and Milton. 

• Cf. Aristoph. Clouds 1203 irpo^ar' dXkui, Herrick, "Kings 
ought to shear, not skin their siieep." 

VOL. I . » 65 


T€ Tov SiKatov Kal SiKaLoavvqg /cat aSt/cou re Kai 
dSiKias, coCTTe dyvoels, otl rj fiev StKaLoavvr] Kai ro 
SiKaiov dXXorpLov dyadou rco ovri, tov KpeiTTOvos 
T€ Kal dpxovTos ^vix(f>€pov, oLKeia he tov Treido- 
fievov T€ Kal VTTTjpeTovvTOs pXd^rj, rj 8e aStKita 
TOVvavTLOV, Kal d.p)(et tojv cos dXrjdoJs evrjdiKciJv t€ 
Kai SLKalojv, ol S' dpxopievoL iroLovai to cKeivov 
^viJ,(f>€pov KpeiTTOVos ovTOS , Kal evSaipiova CKeivov 

D TTOiovaiv V7Trjp€T0vvT€s avTO), iavTOvg 8e ou8' 
oTTOjaTLOvv. aKOTTeladaL 8e, c5 evr^OeaTaTe 2cu- 
KpaTcs, ovTa>al XP1> ^'^'- hcKaios dvrjp dSiKov 
TTavTaxov eXaTTOv ex^i. TrpcoTOV jxev iv toIs Trpos 
oAATyAous' ^vp-^oXaioLs, ottov dv 6 tolovtos tco 
TOLOVTU) KOLvcov-qarj , ovSapLov dv evpotg iv Trj 
SiaXvaei ttjs Koivcovias ttXcov e^ovTa tov hiKaiov 
TOV dSiKov dAA' eXaTTOV eVetTa iv toi? TTpos ttjv 
TToXiv, OTav T€ TLvcs €Lacf)opal (Latv, 6 fiev SiKaios 
aTTo Tcov Xaojv rrXiov elacjiipet,, 6 8' eXaTTOv, oTav 

E T€ Xijifjeis, 6 fiev ouSeV, o 8€ ttoAAo, Kepbacvei. Kal 
yap OTav dpxT]v Tiva dpxj) e/carepos", tw fiev 

" This (quite possible) sense rather than the ironical, " so 
far advanced," better accords with ayvods and with the direct 
brutality of Thrasymachus. 

' T(p 6vTi like lis dXrjOQs, drexi'iis, etc., marks the application 
(often ironical or emphatic) of an image or familiar pro- 
verbial or technical expression or etymology. Cf. 443 d, 
442 A, 419 A, 432 a, Laches 187 b, Phileb. 64 e. Similarly 
(TriTVfj.ov of a proverb. Archil, fr. 35 (87). The origin of the 
usage appears in Aristoph. Birds 507 tout' dp' ^Keiv' ifv touttos 
a\r]dQ9, etc. Cf. Anth. Pal. v. 6. 3. With ev-qdiKuv, however, 
ws dXrjdQs does not verify the etymology but ironically 
emphasizes the contradiction between the etymology and 
the conventional meaning, "simple," which Thrasymachus 
thinks truly fits those to whom Socrates would apply the 
full etymological meaning " of good character." C/. 348 c, 



are so far out " concerning the just and justice and 
the unjust and injustice that you don't know that 
justice and the just are hterally ** the other fellow's 
good '^ — the advantage of the stronger and the ruler, 
but a detriment that is all his own of the subject 
who obeys and serves ; while injustice is the contrary 
and rules those who are simple in every sense of the 
word and just, and they being thus ruled do what is 
for his advantage who is the stronger and make him 
happy by ser\ing him, but themselves by no manner 
of means. And you must look at the matter, my 
simple-minded Socrates, in this way : that the just 
man always comes out at a disadvantage in his 
relation with the unjust. To begin with, in their 
business dealings in any joint undertaking of the 
two you will never find that the just man has the 
advantage over the unjust at the dissolution of the 
partnership but that he always has the worst of it. 
Then again, in their relations with the state, if there 
are direct taxes or contributions to be paid, the just 
man contributes more from an equal estate and the 
other less, and when there is a distribution the one 
gains much and the other nothing. And so when 
each holds office, apart from any other loss the just 

400 E, Laics 679 c, Thucyd. iii. 83. Cf. in English the con- 
nexion of " silly " with selig, and in Italian, Leopardi's 
bitter comment on dabbenaggine {Pensieri xxvi.). 

' Justice not being primarily a self-regarding virtue, like 
prudence, is of course another's good. Cf. Aristot. Eth. Xic. 
1130a3; 1134b 5. Thrasymachus ironically accepts the 
formula, adding the cynical or pessimistic comment, "but 
one's own harm," for which see 392 b, Eurip. Heracleid. 1-5, 
and Isocrates' protest (viii. 32). Bion (Diog. Laert. iv. 7. 48) 
wittily defined beauty as " the other fellow's good " ; which 
recalls Woodrow Wilson's favourite limerick, and the 
definition of business as " I'argent des autres," 



SiKalo) virapyei, /cat el /xrySe/xta olAAt^ ^rjfXLa, rd yc 
OLKela Si o-ixeXeiav noxdrjpoTepcog ex^iv, ck Se rov 
Srjfjioaiov p.r]hev oi^eAeta^ai Sio. to SiKaiov etvai, 
Tipos Se TOVTOLs a.TT€)(6eadai. tols re OLKeiois /cat 
rots' yvcopijjbOLs, orav p,7]Sev edeXr) avrots VTTrjpeTelv 
TTapa TO St'/catov tco Se dbiKcp TrdvTa tovtcov 
rdvavTLa virdp^ei. Xeyo) yap ovTrep vvv 817 eXeyov, 
344 Tov fxeydXa bvvdfxevov irXeoveKTelv. tovtov ovv 
oKOTTeL, eiTTep ^ovXei KpiveLv, oacp fidXXov ^vp.<j>epei 
iSt'a avTO) dhiKov elvai t) to St/catov". TrdvTCOv Se 
paoTa fiaO-qaei, idv cttI ttjv TeXecDrdTrjv dBcKiav 
eXdrjs, 7] TOV fjL€v aSt/CT^aavra euSat/xoi^e'araTOV 
TTOtei, TOWS' Se dSiKrjdevTas /cat dSt/cTjcrat ovk dv 
ideXovras ddXicoTdrovs . eart Se tovto Tvpavvis, 
Tj ov /cara ap-LKpov ToXXorpia /cat Xddpa /cat ^t'a 
d<f)aipeiTaL, /cat tepa /cat oata /cat tSta /cat Srjp^oaLa, 
B aAAo. ^vXXi^^SrjV (Lv e(f) eKaoTcp /xepet orai^ rt? 
dSt/cT^aas pLT] Xddr], ^r]ptovTai. re /cat ov-etSTy e;;^et Ta 
fieyiara' /cat ydp lepoavXoi /cat di^SpaTToSiarat 
/cat Toix^P^X'^'' '^'^^ dTToaTep-qTal /cat /cAeVrat ot 
Kara, /^teprj dStKoui/res TtDv toiovtojv KaKovpyrj- 
fidTciiv KaXovPTai' eVetSdi' Se' Tt? Trpos rols rcov 
ttoXltcov xPVf^'^^'' '^^^ avTovs dvhpaTTohiadpievos 
BovXd)<yr]Tai, dvTL tovtcov twv aloxpcov 6vop,dTa>v 

" For the idea that the just ruler neglects his own business 
and gains no compensating " graft " c/. the story of Dei'oces 
in Herod, i. 97, Democ. fr. 253 Dials, Laches 180 b, Isoc 
xii. 145, Aristot. Pol. v. 8. 15-20, For office as a means of 
helping friends and harming enemies cf. Meno 71 e, Lysias 
ix. 14, and the anecdote of Themistocles (Plutarch, Praecept. 




man must count on his own affairs " falling into dis- 
order through neglect, while because of his justice 
he makes no profit from the state, and thereto he will 
displease his friends and his acquaintances by his 
unwilhngness to serve them unjustly. But to the 
unjust man all the opposite advantages accrue. I 
mean, of course, the one I was just speaking of, the 
man who has the abihty to overreach on a large scale. 
Consider this t}"pe of man, then, if you wish to judge 
how much more profitable it is to him personally to 
be unjust than to be just. And the easiest way of 
all to understand this matter will be to turn to the 
most consummate form of injustice which makes the 
man who has done the wTong most happy and those 
who are wronged and who would not themselves will- 
ingly do wTong most miserable. And this is tyranny, 
which both by stealth and by force takes away what 
belongs to others, both sacred and profane, both 
private and public, not httle by httle but at one 
swoop.* For each several part of such wrongdoing 
the malefactor who fails to escape detection is fined 
and incurs the extreme of contumely ; for temple- 
robbers, kidnappers, burglars, swindlers, and thieves 
are the appellations of those who commit these 
several forms of injustice. But when in addition to 
the property of the citizens men kidnap and enslave 
the citizens themselves, instead of these opprobrious 

reipub. per. 13) cited by Godwin {Political Justice) in the 
form: "God forbid that I should sit upon a bench of justice 
where my friends found no more favour than my enemies." 
Democr. (fr. 266 Diels) adds that the just ruler on laying 
down his office is exposed to the revenge of wrongdoers with 
whom he has dealt severely. 

* The order of words dramatically expresses Thrasy- 
machus's excitement and the sweeping success of the tyrant. 



evSai/xoves Kai ixaKapioi KeKXrjvrai, ov fxovov vtto 
C Tcov ttoXltcHv aAAa Kal vtto tojv aAAcoi/, ocrot av 
TTvOcovrai a'UTOv Trjv oXrjv dSiKLav rjSLKrjKOTa' ov 
yap TO TTOielv to, a8i/ca dAAa ro -ndaxeiv (jio^ovfjie- 
voi oveSiS^ovaiv ol 6veihit,ovT€s ttjv dSiKiav, ovrcos, 
<L TicoKpares, Kal la-)(yp6repov Kal iXcvOepicoTe- 
pov Kal heoTTOTLKcorepov dScKia St/caiocrwTjs" earlv 
LKavojs yiyvopiivrj, Kal oirep i^ o.pxrjs eXeyov, ro p.kv 
Tov KpeLTTOvos ^vpL<f>€pov TO BiKaiov TvyxoLVCL ov, 
TO 8' dSiKov iavTcp XvctltcXovv T€ Kal ^VfX<f)€pOV. 
J) XVII. Taura eiTrdjv 6 QpacrvpLaxos iv va> elx^v 
aTTievai, uyairep ^aXavevs 'qp.uiv KaTavTXrjaas Kara 
Tu>v (VTCOV ddpoov Kal TToXvv TOV Xoyov . ov fxrjv 
eiaaav ye avTOv ol vapovTcs, dXX* TjvdyKaaav 
vnopLeivai re /cat Trapaaxelv tojv elprjfxevcov Xoyov 
Kal Stj eycoye Kal avros Trdvv iSeofxrjv re Kal cIttov 
Q. Sai/jLovLc Qpacrvfxax^, olov ipL^aXdjv Xoyov ev 
vo) ep^et? diTtevai,, Trplv StSa^at i/cavcos' tj fxadelv 
ecre ovtojs €lt€ dXXojs ^x^l; ^ apuKpov oiet evrt- 
E x^^P^^^ rrpdyfia Siopl^eadai, dXX' ov ^iov hiayoiyi^v , 
fj dv Siayofxevos eKaoTOS rjudJv XvaiTeXeaTaTrjv 
t,(x)rjv ^cpT); 'Eyco yap olp-ai, e^t] 6 Qpaavfjiaxos, 
TOVTt dXXojs ^x^i'V; "Eot/cas', "^v 8 eyci, •^rot 
rjjxiov ye ovSev K-qSeadai, ovSe tl <f>povTit,eiv eire 

" The European estimate of Louis N-apoleon before 1870 
is a good illustration. Cf. Theopompus on Philip, Polybius 
viii. 11. Euripides' Bellerophon (fr. 288) uses the happiness 
of the tyrant as an argument against the moral government 
of the world. 

' Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1 130 b 15 uses the expression in a 
different sense. 

* The main issue of the Republic. Cf. 360 d, 358 e and 
Gorg. 469 b. 

•* Cf, Theophrastus, Char. xv. 19 (Jebb), Tucker, Life in 


names they are pronounced happy and blessed * not 

only by their fellow-citizens but by all who hear the 
story of the man who has committed complete and 
entire injustice. *" For it is not the fear of doing '' but 
of suffering wTong that calls forth the reproaches of 
those who re\ile injustice. Thus, Socrates, injustice 
on a sufficiently large scale is a stronger, freer, and 
more masterful thing than justice, and, as I said in 
the beginning, it is the advantage of the stronger 
that is the just, while the unjust is what profits a 
man's self and is for his advantage." 

XVII. After this Thrasymachus was minded to 
depart when like a bathman** he had poured his speech 
in a sudden flood over our ears. But the company 
would not suffer him and were insistent that he should 
remain and render an account of what he had said. 
And I was particularly urgent and said, " I am sur- 
prised at you, Thrasymachus ; after hvu-ling * such a 
doctrine at us, can it be that you propose to depart 
without staying to teach us properly or learn your- 
self whether this thing is so or not ? Do you think 
it is a small matter ^ that you are attempting to deter- 
mine and not the entire conduct of life that for each 
of us would make living most worth while ? " " Well, 
do I deny it ? " " said Thrasymachus. " You seem to," 
said I, " or else ^ to care nothing for us and so feel no 

Ancient Athens, p. 134. For the metaphor cf. 536 b. Lysis 
204 D, Aristoph. Wasps 483. "Sudden," lit. "all at once." 

* Cf. Eurip. Alcestis 680 ov ^aXdiv ovrus direi, 

' Socrates reminds us that a serious moral issue is involved 
in all this word-play. So 352 d, Gorg. 492 c, 500 c. Laches 
185 A. Cf. infra 377 b, 578 c, 608 b. 

' Plainly a protesting question, " Why, do I think other- 
wise ? " Cf. supra 339 d. 

* For the impossibility of J. and C.'s '* or rather " see my 
note in A. J. P. vol. xiii. p. 234. 



Xetpov etre ^iXriov ^icoaofxeOa dyvoovvres o crv 
^rjs etSeVai. dAA', tS 'yadd, TrpodvfjLov /cat rjfuv 
345 ivhei^aadai' ovroi /ca/ccu? crot Keiaerai, o rt av 
T^/za? TOcroucrSe ovras' evepyeriijarjs. iy OJ yap Srj 
aoL Xeyoi to y' ifiov, on ov TreldopiaL ov8' oijuat 
dSt/ctat* Si,Kaioovv7]s KepSaXedorepov elvai, ovo eav 
ea TLs avTTjv /cat pcrj hiaKcoXvr] TrparreLV a jSouAeraf 
dAA', c5 'yade, earroj pcev dSt/co?, Suma^oj Se 
dSiKelv T] rep Xavddueiv •»} to) Siapdx^o^dai, o/xcu? 
e/xe ye ov Treidei <hs eWt tt^? St/catoawTj? /cepSa- 

B Xecorepov. TavT ovv /cat erepos tacos ns rjp-ivv 
TTeTTOvdev, ov fJLOvos iyo). Trelaov ovv, co jxaKapie, 
LKavcos r)p-ds, art ovk opdcos ^ovXevojxeda St/caio- 
avvrjv dSt/cias' nept TrXeiovos TTOtovpevoi. Kat ttojs, 
€(f)r], ere Treioco; el ydp ols vvv Srj eXeyov p,rj ire- 
TTeiaai, ri ool ert Troi-qaoi; r) et? r-qv ipvxW ^^P^^ 
ivdu) Tov Xoyov; Md At", rjv 8' iycd, prj av ye' 
dXXd vpcoTOV jxev, a dv e'LTTrjs, efxpieve tovtois. •^ 
idv fxeTaTLdrj, cf)av€pd)s nerartdeao /cat rjjjids p^r] 

C e^a-n-dra. vvv 8e opas, c5 Qpaavfxax^, ert ydp 
rd epLTTpoadev eTnaKeijjoipieda, on rov ws aXrjddJs 
tarpov TO TTpdJTOv 6piil,6p,evos rov cos aXr]dcos ttoi- 

» Keherai of an investment perhaps. Cf. Plautus, Rudens 
939 "bonis quod bene fit, baud perit." 

'' Isocrates viii. 31 and elsewhere seems to be copying 
Plato's idea that injustice can never be profitable in the higher 
sense of the word. Cf. also the proof in the Hipparchus that 
all true K^pdos is dyadov. 

" Plato neglects for the present the refinement that the 
unjust man does not do what he really wishes, since all 
desire the good. Cf. infra 438 a, 577 d, and Gorg. 467 b. 

" Cf. 365 D. 

' Thrasymachus has stated his doctrine. Like Dr. Johnson 



concern whether we axe going to live worse or better 
lives in our ignorance of what you affirm that you 
know. Nay, my good fellow, do your best to make 
the matter clear to us also : it will be no bad invest- 
ment " for you — any benefit that you bestow on such 
a company as this. For I tell you for my part that 
I am not con\inced, neither do I think that injustice 
is more profitable * than justice, not even if one gives 
it free scope and does not hinder it of its \nll.'^ But, 
suppose, sir, a man to be unjust and to be able to 
act unjustly either because he is not detected or can 
maintain it by violence,** all the same he does not 
convince me that it is more profitable than justice. 
Now it may be that there is someone else among us 
who feels in this way and that I am not the only one. 
Persuade us, then, my dear fellow, convince us satis- 
factorily that we are ill advised in preferring justice 
to injustice." " And how am I to persuade you ? " * 
he said. " If you are not convinced by what I just 
now was saying, what more can I do for you ? Shall 
I take the argument and ram ^ it into your head ? " 
" Heaven forbid ! " I said, " don't do that. But in 
the first place when you have said a thing stand by 
it," or if you shift your ground change openly and 
don't try to deceive us. But, as it is, you see, 
Thrasymachus — let us return to the previous ex- 
amples — you see that while you began by taking the 
physician in the true sense of the word, you did not 

he cannot supply brains to understand it. Cf. Gorg. 489 c, 
499 B, Meno 75 d. 

' The language is idiomatic, and the metaphor of a nurse 
feeding a baby, Aristoph. Ecd. 7 1 6, is rude. Cf. Shakespeare, 
"He crams these words into my eats against the stomach of 
my sense." 

' Cf. Socrates' complaint of Callicles' shifts, Gorg. 499 b-c, 
but cf. supra 334 e, 340 b-c. 



fxeva ovKeri coov Setv varepov aKpi^cbs <f)vXd^ai, 
dXXa TTOt/xatVetr^ otet avrov to. Trpo^ara, Kad oaou 


pXeTToma, aAA' cScrTrep dairvixova tlvo. Kal /tcA- 
Xovra iaridaeadai Trpos Trjv evcox^av, r] av irpos 
D TO drrohoadai, ojOTtep xpr]p,amcnr\v dAA ov ttol- 
fieva. TTJ §6 7TOLfji€viKfj ov S'qTTOv dXXov rov fieXei 
7], i(f>' (L rera/CTat, ottcos tovtu) to ^iXricnov 
eKTropieZ' inel rd ye avrijg, u)(jt elvai ^eXTLarr], 
t/cavcDs' B-qnov e/CTreTrdptcTTai, ecos y' dv [irjhev 
ivher) Tov TTocfievLK-q elvai' ovtoj 8e <f»/AT7v eyojye 
vvv Bt] dvayKOLOv etvai r)fuv o/JuoXoyelv, ndaav 
dpx'^v, Kad^ daov dpx'^, pi'qhevl dXXo) to ^iXTiaTOV 
aKOTT€iadai "q eKelvcp tu> dpxoixevco re Kal depa- 
E Treuo/xeVo), ev t€ TToXtTLKTJ Kal ISLcoTiKfj OLpxjj- ov 
8e Tovs dpxovTas iv Tat? TToXeat, tovs dX-qoaJs 
dpxovTas, CKovTas otet dpx^iv; Mo. At" ovk, e(f>r], 
aAA' €v ol8a. 

XVIII. Ti Se; rjv S' iyco, w Qpacrvfiaxe, Tas 
dXXas dpxds OVK ivvoeis oti ouSet? ideXei apx^-iv 
CKcov, dXXd jjiiadov aLTOvaLv, co? ovxl avTolaiv 
cu^e'Aetav ecrofjievTjv eV tov dpx^i'V dXXd toXs ct/^X^' 
346 jxevois; eVei TocrdvSe eiTre- ovxl iKdaT7]v p.4vTOi 
(jtapikv eKdoTOTe tojv tcxvcov tovtco CTepav etvai, 

* irotMaiVetv (tt yp in marg. A*)] iriaiveiv (A) might seem to 
fit SaiTviuL6va better but does not accord so well with Kad' 
6(jov, etc. For the thought cf. Dio Chrys. Or. i. 48 R., 
who virtually quotes, adding lis i(pr] tis, 

« The art = the ideal abstract artist. See on 342 a-c. 
Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1098 a 8 ff. says that the function of a 
harper and that of a good harper are generically the same. 
Cf. Crito 48 a. 


tliink fit afterwards to be consistent and maintain 
with precision the notion of the true shepherd, but 
\i)u apparently think that he herds his sheep in his 
liuality of shepherd, not with regard to what is best 
tor the sheep, but as if he were a banqueter about to 
be feasted with regard to the good cheer or again 
with a view to the sale of them, as if he were a 
money-maker and not a shepherd. But the art of 
the shepherd " surely is concerned with nothing else 
than how to proxide what is best for that over which 
it is set, since its own affairs, its own best estate, are 
siu-ely sufficiently provided for so long as it in novvise 
fails of being the shepherd's art. And in like manner 
I supposed that we just now were constrained to 
acknowledge that every form of rule * in so far as it 
is rule considers what is best for nothing else than 
that which is governed and cared for by it, alike in 
political and private rule. Why, do you think that 
the rulers and holders of office in our cities — the 
true rulers '^ — willingly hold office and rule ? " "I 
don't think," he said, " I know right well they do." 

XVIII. " But what of other forms of rule, Thrasy- 
machus ? Do you not perceive that no one chooses of 
his own will to hold the office of rule, but they demand 
pay, which implies that not to them will benefit accrue 
from their holding office but to those whom they 
rule ? For tell me this : we ordinarily say, do we 
not, that each of the arts is different from others 

* Aristotle's despotic rule over slaves would seem to be 
an exception (Newman, Introd. Aristot. Pol. p. 245). But 
that too should be for the good of the slave ; infra 590 d. 

« See on 343 b, Aristot. Eth. Xic. 1 102 a 8. The new point 
that good rulers are reluctant to take office is discussed to 
347 E, and recalled later, 520 d. See Newman, I.e. pp. 244- 
245, Dio Cass, xxxvi. 27. 1. 



TO) irepav rrjv SvvafXLV e^^eiv; Ka(, tS fjiaKapte, firj 
rrapa So^av airoKplvov, Iva tl Kal nepalvcofjLev. 
AAAa TOVTO), €(f)rj, irepa. Ovkovv /cat dxjieXeiav 
eKacTTT] IBiav riva Trapex^rat, dAA' ov kolv^v, 
olov iarpLKT] p,€v vyUiav, Kv^epvrjTLKrj Se aojTqpLav 
iv rep TrXeiv, Kal at aAAat ovtojs; Ilain; ye. 
Ovkovv Kal p,La6coTLKr) pucrdov; avrrj yap avTTJs 

B rj Svvap-is' iq Tqv LaTpiKiqv av Kal nqv KV^epvTjTLKTjv 
rrjv avTTjv KaXels; rj iavrrep ^ovXr] oLKpi^ws 
Stopt'^eiv', wanep vrredov, ovSev ri fxdXXov, idv tls 
Kv^epvcov vyLYjg yiyvTjrai Sta ro ^vp.(f>€p€i,v avro) 
TrXelv iv rfj daXdrTrj, eveKa tovtov /caAet? pioXXov 
avrrjv larpiK-qv; Ov hrJTa, €(f)7). OvSd y , olpLai, 
TTjv p,ia6a)TiKT]v, cdv vyialvr] ris p^iadapvcov. Ov 

C Srjra. Tt 8e; rrjv larpLKrjv p,ta6apv7^riK-qv, iav 
iwjjievog Tt? p.iadapv7J; Ovk, €(f)r]. Ovkovv ttjv 
ye a)(f)dX€iav eKaarr^s ttjs T€xvr]s I8iav (hp.oXoyri- 
aa[jL€v elvai; "Earco, e(f)r]. "Hvrtva apa dxfyeXeiav 
KOLvfj (h^eXovvrai Travres ol 8r]p,iovpyoL, SijXov 


W(j>eXovvrai . "Eot/cev', ^4*1 • Oa^e^' 8e ye to 
pLiadov dpwp.evovs o)(f>eX€iadai rovs 8r)p.iovpyovs 
OLTTO Tov TTpoaxpTJcrdaL Tjj fjLicrdiOTLKfj TexvT) ylyve- 
adai avTOLs- ^vv€(f)r) p^oyis. Ovk apa aTTO ttjs 

" Cf. Gorg. 495 a. But elsewhere Socrates admits that 
the "argument" maybe discussed regardless of the belief 
of the respondent (349 a). Cf. Thompson on Meno 83 j>, 
Campbell on Soph. 246 d. 

* As each art has a specific function, so it renders a specific 
service and aims at a specific good. This idea and the 
examples of the physician and the pilot are commonplaces 
in Plato and Aristotle. 

* Hence, as argued below, from this abstract point of 
view wage-earning, which is common to many arts, cannot 



because its power or function is different ? And, 
my dear fellow, in order that we may reach some 
result, don't answer counter to your real belief." " 
" Well, yes," he said, " that is what renders it 
different." " And does not each art also yield us 
benefit ^ that is peculiar to itself and not general," as 
for example medicine health, the pilot's art safety 
at sea, and the other arts similarly ? " " Assuredly." 
" And does not the wage-earner's art yield wage ? 
For that is its function. Would you identify medicine 
and the pilot's art ? Or if you please to discriminate 
* precisely ' as you proposed, none the more if a pilot 
regains his health because a sea voyage is good for 
him, no whit the more, I say, for this reason do 
you call his art medicine, do you ? " "Of com^e 
not," he said. " Neither, I take it, do you call wage- 
earning medicine if a man earning wages is in 
health." "Surely not." " But what of this r Do you 
call medicine wage-earning, if a man when giving 
treatment earns wages ? " " No," he said. " And did 
we not agree that the benefit derived from each art is 
peculiar to it ? " "So be it." he said. "Any common 
or general benefit that all craftsmen receive, then, 
they ob\iously derive from their common use of some 
further identical thing." " It seems so," he said. 
" And we say that the benefit of earning wages 
accrues to the craftsmen from their further exercise 
of the wage-earning art." He assented reluctantly 
be the specific service of any of them, but must pertain to 
the special art tiiaduTiKij, This refinement is justified by 
Thrasymachus's original abstraction of the infallible crafts- 
man as such. It has also this much moral truth, that the 
good workman, as Ruskin says, rarely thinks first of his 
pay, and that the knack of getting well paid does not 
always go \»ith the ability to do the work welL See Aristotle 
on xp'?A«irio-ri(ci7, Pol. i. 3 (1253 b 14). 



D avTov rexvTjs iKaara) avrrj rj co^eAeia iariv, rj 
rod fxiadov XrjijjLs, aAA', el Set OLKpL^cos aKOTreZadai, 
Tj ^jikv larpiKT] vyieiav ttolcI, rj 8e fxcadapvrjTLKrj 
pnadov, Kal rj jiev oiKoSofiiKrj oiKiav, rj 8e jjucrOap- 
VTjTiKrj avrfj eTTO/jLevrj jjnadov, Kat ai aAAai Trdaai 
ovTO)' TO avrrjs eKaarrj epyov epya^erai Kal 
co^eAet iK€Lvo, icf)' a> reVa/CTat. iav 8e [xrj jiiaSos 
avrfj TTpoayiyvTjrai, ead^ o ri u)(f)eXelraL 6 Srjjxiovp- 
yos 0,770 rijs t^X^V^> Oi) ^aiverai, ^(f>'^' ^Ap' 
E ovv oi)8' (h^eXel rore, orav TrpoiKa epydt,rjrai ; 
Otfiai eyoiye. Ovkovv, cS Qpaavjiaxe, rovro rjBrj 
SijXov, on ovhejiia re-)(yrj ovhk apx^j ro avrfj 
<h(f}e.Xiixov TTapaaKevdt,ei, aAA', orrep TraAai iXeyo- 
fj-ev, ro rip dpxojieva) /cat rrapaaK€vdl,€L /cat 
imrdrrei, ro eKeivov ^vp.<jiepov rjrrovos ovros 
(XKOTTOvaa, dAA' ov ro rod Kpeirrovos. 8td hrj 
ravra eycoye, a) ^lAe Qpaavjiaxe, /cat dpri eXeyov 
fxrjheva ideXeiv eKovra dpx^tv /cat rd dAAdrpta 
/ca/cd fierax^t'P^C^o-dai dvopdovvra, dXXd pnadov 
347 alreZv, ort d jxeXXcuv /caAcus" rfj re^yrj rrpd^etv ovSe- 
TTore avrw ro ^eXriarov rrpdrrei oi5S' iinrdrreL 
Kara rrjv rexvrjv emrdrrcov, dXXd ro) dp^ojievco' 
<x)v Srj eVe/ca, (hs koiKe, jxiadov helv vndpx^LV rots 
fxeXXovaiv ideXrjaeiv dp^eiv, rj dpyvpiov ^ njxrjv, 
rj l,rjjjLiav, iav firj dpxj)- 

XIX. Hcbs rovro Xeyeis, c5 HojKpares; e(f>rj 6 
TXavKOjv. rovs picv yap Svo jxiadovs yiyvcoaKCD' 
rrjv 8e t,rjjxiav rjvriva Xeyets Kal cos eV jiiadov jiepeL 
CLprjKas, ov ^vvTjKa. Tov rcbv ^eXriarcov dpa 

" Acaxd = troubles, miseres, 517 d. For the thought cf. 
343 E, 345 E, Xen. Mem. ii. 1. 8, Herod, i. 97. 
* Cf. 345 E, Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1134 b 6. 



" Then the benefit, the receiving of wages does not 
accrue to each from his own art. But if we are to 
consider it ' precisely ' medicine produces health but 
the fee-earning art the pay, and architecture a house 
but the fee-earning art accompanying it the fee, and 
so with all the others, each performs its own task and 
benefits that over which it is set, but unless pay is 
added to it is there any benefit which the craftsman 
receives from the craft ? " "Apparently not," he said. 
" Does he then bestow no benefit either when he 
works for nothing ? " "I'll say he does." " Then, 
Thrasymachus, is not this immediately apparent, that 
no art or office pro\ides what is beneficial for itself 
— but as we said long ago it provides and enjoins 
what is beneficial to its subject, considering the ad- 
vantage of that, the weaker, and not the advantage 
of the stronger ? That was why , friend ThrasjTnachus, 
I was just now saying that no one of his own will 
chooses to hold rule and office and take other people's 
troubles " in hand to straighten them out, but every- 
body expects pay for that, because he who is to 
exercise the art rightly never does what is best for 
himself or enjoins it when he gives commands accord- 
ing to the art, but what is best for the subject. 
That is the reason, it seems, why pay '' must be pro- 
vided for those who are to consent to rule, either in 
the form of money or honour or a penalty if they 

XIX. " WTiat do you mean by that, Socrates ? " 
said Glaucon. " The two wages I recognize, but the 
penalty you speak of and described as a form of wage 
I don't understand."^ " " Then," said I, " you don't 

' Plato habitually explains metaphors, abstractions, and 
complicated definitions in this dramatic fashion. Cf. 352 e, 
377 A, 413 A, 429 c, 438 b, 510 b. 



B fJLiaOov, €<J)rjv, ov ^vvicZs, 8t' ou apxovaiv ol iin- 
eiKeararoiy orav ideXcoGiv apx^iv. rj ovk olada, 
ort TO (jytXoTLfjiov re koI (f)i,Xdpyvpov elvai oveihos 
Xeyerai re kolI eariv; "Kycoye, €(f)r]. Aia ravra 
Toivvv, rjv 8' ey-ctj, ovre p^pT^/xarcot' eveKa ideXovaiv 
ap)(€Lv OL ayadoL ovre TLp,rjs' ovre yap (jiavepoJs 
TTparrofievoL rrjs OLpXV^ eveKa piodov fiLadcorol 
^ovXovrai KeKXrjadai,, ovre Xddpa avrol e/c rrjs 
OLpx^s XafjL^dvovres tcXeTrraf oi)S' av rifMTJs eveKa' 

C ov yap etat ^lAdrt/xoi. Set hrj avrol? dvdytcqv 
TTpoaelvai /cat l,7]piiav, el fieXXovcnv edeXetv dp^eiv 
odev KLvhwevet ro eKovra evl to dp)(etv levai dXXd 
fXTj dvdyKr]v TrepifxeveLV alaxpov vevop.iadai. rrjg^ 
8e t,r)p,Las fxeyiarr) ro vtto TTOvrjporepov dpxeadai, 
edv fir) avrog edeXrj dpxeiv tjv heiaavres fxoi 
(jjaivovraL dpxeiv, orav apx^iaiv, ol imeiKels, Kal 
Tore epxovrai errl to apxeiv, ovx cu? ctt' dyaOov 
Ti lovre'S oi)S' CO? evrrad-qaovres ev avrcp, dXX d)s 
en avayKaiov /cat ovk exovreg eavrcbv ^eXriocnv 

D eTTLTpeipai ovhe o/xotots'. enel Kivhwevei, ttoXls 
dvSpaJv dyadajv el yevoiro, Tre pcfidx^jrov av elvai 
TO fJiTj dpxecv, waTTep vvvl ro dpxetv, Kal evravd^ 

" C/. Aristot.PoL1318 b36. In a good democracy the better 
classes will be content, for they will not be ruled by worse 
men. Cf. Cicero, Ad Att. ii. 9 " male vehi malo alio guber- 
nante quam tam ingratis vectoribus bene gubernare"; 
Democ. fr. 49 D. : " It is hard to be ruled by a worse man ; " 
Spencer, Data of Ethics, § 77. 

* The good and the necessary is a favourite Platonic 
antithesis, but the rjecessary is often the condicio sine qua 
nan of the good. Cf. 358 c, 493 c, 540 b. Laws 628 c-d, 
858 A. Aristotle took over the idea. Met. 1072 b 12. 

' This suggests an ideal state, but not more strongly than 
Meno 100 a, 89 b. 


understand the wages of the best men for the sake 
of which the finest spirits hold office and rule when 
they consent to do so. Don't you know that to be 
covetous of honour and covetous of money is said to 
be and is a reproach ? " "I do," he said. " Well, 
then," said I, " that is why the good are not \^-illing 
to rule either for the sake of money or of honour. 
They do not wish to collect pay openly for their 
service of rule and be styled hirelings nor to take it 
by stealth from their office and be called thieves, 
nor yet for the sake of honour, for they are 
not covetous of honour. So there must be imposed 
some compulsion and penalty to constrain them 
to rule if they are to consent to hold office. That is 
perhaps why to seek office oneself and not await 
compulsion is thought disgraceful. But the chief 
penalty is to be governed by someone worse" if 
a man will not himself hold office and rule. It is 
from fear of this, as it appears to me, that the better 
sort hold office when they do, and then they go to it 
not in the expectation of enjoyment nor as to a 
good thing,** but as to a necessary evil and because 
they are unable to turn it over to better men 
than themselves or to their like. For we may ven- 
ture to say that, if there should be a city of good 
men " only, immunity from office-holding would be as 
eagerly contended for as office is now,'^ and there it 

■* The paradox suggests Spencer's altruistic competition 
and Archibald Marshall's Upsidonia. Cf. infra 521 a, 586 c, 
Isoc. vii. 24, xii. 145 ; Mill, On Representative Government, 
p. 56 : *' The good despot . . . can hardly be imagined as 
consenting to undertake it unless as a refuge from intolerable 
evils ; ' ibid. p. 200 : " Until mankind in general are of 
opinion with Plato that the proper person to be entrusted 
with power is the person most unwilling to accept it." 

VOL. I G 81 


ai' Korat^avk'S yeveadai, on rco ovri olXtjOlvos 
ap^ojv ov tt4<^vkg to avro) avi.i(f)€pov OKOTretadai, 
oAAa TO TO) dp^Ofxewo)- toare ttoLs a.v 6 yiyvoicrKcov 
TO ax^eXetadai fxdXXov eXocro VTr* dXXov •^ dXXov 
dxfieXaJp 77 pay fjLara €X^i-v- tovto pikv ovv eyojye 
E ovSafifj avyxojpdj Qpaavp-dxco, ws to SiKaiov eWi 

TO TOV KpeiTTOVOS ^VjX(f)€pOV. dXXd TOVTO fiev St) 

/cat elaavdi's aKei/jopieda- ttoXv 8e fioL BoKei ix€lt,ov 
ttvai, o vvu Ae'yei Qpaavfxaxos, tov tov olBlkov 
^Lov (f>d(7Kcov elvai KpetTTOj rj tov tov SiKaiov, ov 
ovv TTOTcpov, rjv 8' iyw, c5 VXavKOiv , alpei Kai 
TTOTepws dXr]deaTepoj<; 8ok€l aoi Xeyeudai; Tov 
TOV hiKaiov eycoye, e(f)7], XvaiTeXeaTcpov ^iov 
348 elvat.. "H/coyo-a?, yjv 8* iyco, daa dpTi Qpaav- 
/j-axos dyadd StrjXde to) tov dhiKov; "H/couora, 
6(^17, dAA* ov TTeido/jLaL. BoyAet ovv avTOV rret- 
6iofM€v, dv Swco/xeOd rrr] i^evpeiv, ws ovk dXrjdrj 
Ae'yei; Ilais" ydp ov ^ovXopiai; r) 8' o?. *Av p-ev 
Toiwv, Tjv 8* iyoi, dvTLKaTaTeivavreg Xeycofxev 
avTcp Xoyov napd Xoyov, daa av dyadd e;(et to 
hiKaiov elvai, /cat avOis ovtos, /cat aAAov rjp,€LS, 
apidpielv Seijaec Tdyadd /cat pbeTpelv, daa cKdTepoL 
B ev cKaTepo) Xeyop-ev, /cat rjSrj ScKaaTajv tlvcov tcov 
SiaKpivovvTCov Se-qaop-eda- dv 8e coGTrep dpTi dvop,o- 
Xoyovp,€voi trpos oAATjAoy? aKonciJp^ev, dp.a avToi 

' fl<Tav6is lays the matter on the table. Cf. 430 c. The 
suggestiveness of Thrasymachus's definition is exhausted, 
and Socrates turns to the larger question and main theme 
of the Republic raised by the contention that the unjust life 
is happier and more profitable than the just. 

* This is done in 358 d if . It is the favourite Greek 

O V" 


would be made plain that in very truth the true 
ruler does not naturally seek his own advantage but 
that of the ruled ; so that every man of understand- 
ing would rather choose to be benefited by another 
than to be bothered \\ith benefiting him. This point 
then I by no means concede to Thrasymachus, that 
justice is the advantage of the superior. But that 
we \^ill reserve for another occasion." A far weightier 
matter seems to me Thrasymachus 's present state- 
ment, his assertion that the hfe of the unjust man is 
better than that of the just. Which now do you 
choose, Glaucon ? " said I, " and which seems to you 
to be the truer statement ? " " That the hfe of the 
just man is more profitable, I say," he repUed. " Did 
you hear," said I, " all the goods that Thrasymachus 
just now enumerated for the hfe of the unjust man? " 
" I heard," he said, " but I am not convinced." - 
" Do you wish us then to try to persuade him, 
supposing we can find a way, that what he says is 
not true .'' " " Of course I wish it," he said. " If 
then we oppose ^ him in a set speech enumerating in ^ 
turn the advantages of being just and he replies and 
we rejoin, we shall have to count up and measure the 
goods listed in the respective speeches and we shall 
forthwith be in need of judges to decide between 
us. But if, as in the preceding discussion, we come 
to terms with one another as to what we admit in 
the inquiry, we shall be ourselves both judges and 

method of balancing pros and cons in set speeches and anti- 
thetic enumerations. Cf. Herod, viii. 83, the StaX^ftis (Diels, 
Vorsokratiker ii. pp. 334-34.5), the choice of Heracles (Xen. 
Mem. ii. 1), and the set speeches in Euripides. With this 
method the short question and answer of the Socratic dia- 
lectic is often contrasted. C/. Prolog. 329 a, 334-335, Gorg. 
461-462, also Gorg. 471 e, Cratyl. 437 d, TheaeUt. 171a. 



T€ SiKaaral Kal piqTopes icrofieda. Haw fxev ovv, 
€(f)r). Uorepiog ovv aoi, rjv 8' cyto, dpea/cet; 

XX. "Wl 8i], rjv S' iyco, c5 Qpacrvfiaxe, a/no- 
Kpivai rjjjuv i^ dpxyjs' rr]v reXeav dSLKiav reAea? 
ovar]g SiKaioavvr^s XvaLreXearepav (f>r)g etvat; 

C riai'i' fi€v ovv /cat (ftrjj^u, e^rj, /cat 8t' a, etp-qKa. 
Oepe hrj to roiovhe irepl avT(jL>v ttcus Aeyei?; to 
pL€v 7TOV dp€Trjv avTolv /caAei?, to 8e /ca/ciav; 
IIcos" yap ov; Ovkovv ttjv fiev BiKatoavvrjv dpeTqv, 
TTjV 8e aSt/ciW KaKLav; Et/cd? y', e^^, a) rihiaT€, 
eTTeiBrj /cat Aeyoj dSt/ciai^ fxev XvaLTeXelv, 8t/cato- 
avvrjv 8' ou. 'AAAd ti /xt^v; Touvavriot', ■^ 8' os". 
^H TT^i' St/catoCTui^p' KaKiav; Ovk, dXXd Trdvv 
yevvaiav ev-qdeiav. Ttjv dStKiav dpa KaKO'qdeiav 

D KaXels; Ovk, dAA' ev^ovXiav, ^^rj. *H /cat (f)p6vi- 
/jLot aoi, (L Qpaavixax^, Sokovctlv elvai /cat dya^ot 
OL dSt/coi; or ye TcXecos, e(f)r), otoi re dSt/cetv, tto- 
Aet? re /cat e^t-Tj hwafxevoi dvdpcoTTcov i30' iavTovs 
Troi€ia6aL' av he olei p,e taws tovs to. ^aXdvTia 
dTTOTefivovTas Xeyeiv. XvaiTeXel fiev ovv, -^ 8' og, 
Kal Ta TOiavTa, eavrrep Xavddvrj- ecrrt 8e ovk d^ta 

E Adyou, dAA' d vvv 8rj eXeyov. Tovto fievToc, €<f)r)v, 
OVK ayvocb 6 rt ^ovXei Xeyeiv dXXd rdSe idavjxaaa, 

" Thrasymachus's " Umwertung aller Werte" reverses the 
normal application of the words, as Callicles does in Gorg. 
491 E. 

' Thrasymachus recoils from the extreme position. 
Socrates' inference from the etymology of ev-qOeia {cf. 343 c) 
is repudiated. Injustice is not turpitude (bad character) but 
— discretion. ev^ovXia in a higher sense is what Protagoras 
teaches {Protag. 318 e) and in the highest sense is the wisdom 
of Plato's guardians (infra 428 b). 

TH£ republic, book II ;^^ 

pleaders." " Quite so," he said. " Which method 
do you hke best ? " said I. " This one," he said. 

XX. " Come then, Thrasymachus," I said, "go back 
to the beginning and answer us. You affirm that per- 
fect and complete injustice is more profitable than 
justice that is complete.' " I affirm it," he said, 
" and have told you my reasons." " Tell me then 
how you would express yourself on this point about 
them. You call one of them, I presume, a virtue 
and the other a vice ? " " Of course." " Justice 
the \-irtue and injustice the vice ? " " It is likely," 
you innocent, when I say that injustice pays and 
justice doesn't pay." " But what then, pray ? " 
" The opposite," he replied. " What ! justice \ice ? " 
" No, but a most noble simphcity ^ or goodness of 
heart." " Then do you call injustice badness of 
heart ? " " No, but goodness of judgement." " Do 
you also, Thrasymachus, regard the unjust as in- 
telligent and good ? " " Yes, if they are capable of 
complete injustice," he said, " and are able to sub- 
ject to themselves cities and tribes of men. But you 
probably suppose that I mean those who take purses. 
There is profit to be sure even in that sort of thing," 
he said, " if it goes undetected. But such things are 
not worth taking into the account, but only what I 
just described." " I am not unaware of your mean- 
ing in that," I said ; " but this is what surprised me,* 

" Socrates understands the theory, and the distinction 
between wholesale injustice and the petty profits that are 
not worth mentioning, but is startled by the paradox that 
injustice will then fall in the category of virtue and wisdom. 
Thrasymachus affirms the paradox and is brought to self- 
contradiction by a subtle argument (349-350 c) which may 
pass as a dramatic illustration of the game of question and 
answer. Cf. Introd. p. x. 




€L iv dpeTrjs Kal ao<j>ias Ttdrjs fiepei ttjv dhiKiav, 
Trjv 8e SiKaLoavvTjv iv rots ivavrlois. *AAAa ttolvv 
ovTOi Tid-qfii. TovTO, -^v S' iyo), rjSr) arepecorepov, 
o) iralpe, Kal ovkctl paSiov ex^tv o ri ris eiTrr). 
el yhp XvcnreXelv fxev rrjv dSiKLav crcdeao, KaKiav 
jxevTOi ^ aia^pov avro oijioXoyeis etvai, ioanep 
dXXoL Tives, el-)(op-ev dv tl Xeyeiv Kara to. vofii^o- 
fxeva XeyovTCS' vvv Be SrjXos el on <f)'qcr€is avro /cat 
KaXov Kai laxvpov elvai Kal raAAa avTU) Trai/ra 
349 TTpoad'qcjeLg, d rjfiets to) SiKaico TTpoaeTLdefxev, eireL- 
hiq ye Kal iv dperrj avro Kal ao(j)ia iroXfirjaas 
delvai. ^AXrjdecrraTa, e^t], pbavrevei. 'AAA' ov 
juevTOi, Tjv 8' iy(x), diroKvqreov ye rep Xoycp iire^- 
eXdelv aKOTTOVfxevov, ecus dv ae VTToXafx^dvio Xeyeiv 
aTTep BLavoei. ip,ol yap Sokcls av, co Spacrvfiax^y 
drexvcjs vvv ov OKcoTneiv, dXXd rd SoKovvra Ttepi 
TTJs dXyjOetas Xeyeiv. Tt 8e croi, e(f)rj, rovro 
hia<f}epei, elre p,OL SoKel eXre firj, aAA' ov tov Xoyov 
B iXeyxeis; OvSev, rjv 8' iyco. dXXd roBe jxoi 
TTeipd) en Trpos tovtoi? dTTOKpivaadai' 6 BiKaios 
TOV BiKaiov BoKel ri aoi dv ideXeiv irXeov exeiv; 

" rjSij marks the advance from the affirmation that injustice 
is profitable to the point of asserting that it is a virtue. 
This is a " stiffer proposition," i.e. harder to refute, or 
possibly more stubborn. 

*" e.g. Polus in Gorg. 474 ff., 482 d-e. C/. Isoc. De Pace 
31. Thrasymachus is too wary to separate the KaKdv and 
the aiffxpo" ^^^ expose himself to a refutation based on con- 
ventional usage. Cf. Laws 627 d, Polit. 306 a, Laws 662 a. 

" Cf. supra on 346 a. 

' irepi TTJi dXr;^eias suggests the dogmatic titles of sophistic 
and pre-Socratic books. Cf. Antiphon, p. 553 Diels, 
Campbell on Theaetet. 161 c, and Aristot. Met. passim. 



that you should range injustice under the head 
of virtue and wisdom, and justice in the opposite 
class." " Well, I do so class them," he said. " That," 
said I, "is a stiffer proposition," my friend, and if 
you are going as far as that it is hard to know 
what to answer. For if your position were that in- 
justice is profitable yet you conceded it to be \-icious 
and disgraceful as some other ** disputants do, there 
would be a chance for an argument on conventional 
principles. But, as it is, you obviously are going to 
affirm that it is honourable and strong and you will 
attach to it all the other qualities that we were 
assigning to the just, since you don't shrink from 
putting it in the category of \-irtue and ^nsdom." 
" You are a most veritable prophet," he replied. 
" Well," said I, " I mustn't flinch from follo\*'ing out 
the logic of the inquiry, so long as I conceive you to 
be saying what you think.'' For now, Thrasymachus, 
I absolutely believe that you are not * mocking ' us 
but telling us your real opinions about the truth.** " 
" What difference does it make to you," he said, 
" whether I beheve it or not ? Why don't you test 
the argument ? " " No difference," said I, " but 
here is something I want you to tell me in addition 
to what you have said. Do you think the just man 
would want to overreach* or exceed another just 

• In pursuance of the analogy between the virtues and the 
arts the moral idea TrXeove^ja (overreaching, getting more 
than your share; see on 359 c) is generalized to include 
doing more than or differently from. English can hardly 
reproduce this. Jowett's Shakespearian quotation {King 
John rv. ii. 28), 

WTien workmen strive to do better than well. 
They do confound their skill in covetousness, 
though apt, only illustrates the thought in part, 



OvSafxojs, €(f>rj' ov yap dv rjv darelos, wairep vvv, 
KoX €vij6r)s. Tt Se; rrjs St/catas' irpa^ecos; OySe 
T'jjs" SiKaias, ^(f>f]- Tov 8e dSiKov iroTepov d^ioZ dv 
TrXeoveKTclv /cat rjyolro SiKatov elvai, rj ovk dv 
•qyotro SiKaiov; 'Hyoir' dv, ^ 8' o?, Kal d^Loi, 
dW OVK dv SvvaiTO. 'AAA' ov rovro, -qv 8' eyu), 

C ipcoTO), aAA' ei rov fxev StKalov ixrj d^toX TrXeov 
^x^i-v [XT]Se ^ouAerai o SiKaios, rov 8e aSiKov; 
'AAA' ovTcos, ^(f>T]) ^'x^i. Tt 8e 8'?^ o dSiKos; dpa 
a^tot Tov SiKalov TrXeoveKrelv /cat rrjs St/caias' 
Trpd^ewg; 11 coy yap oy/c; e(^^, o? ye TravTOiV 
TrXiov ex^iv d^tot. Ou/cow Kat d8i/cou dvdpco- 
7TOV T€ /cat TTpd^eojs 6 dSiKos TrXeoveKTT^aet, /cat 
d/itAAT^CTerat cu? drrav'TWi' TrXelcrrov avTos Xd^rj; 
"Eo-Tt ravra. 

XXI. ^Q.h€ Srj XeycDj-iev, €(f)r)v 6 8i/caios rov fxev 
OfjLolov ov TrXeoveKTcl, tov 8e dvoixolov, 6 8e d8i/co? 

D Tou re 6p,OLOV /cat tou dvofxolov. "ApLara, ^4>f}y 
eipr]Kas. "Ecrrt 8e ye, ^<j)riv, (f>povLii6s re /cat 
dya^oj d d8t/co?, d 8e Si/caio? ovSerepa. Kat 
Tovr , €(f)r), €v. OvKovv, rjv 8' e'yco, /cat eot/ce rd) 
^povipup Kal TO) dyad<p 6 dSiKos, 6 8e St/catoj ou/c 
€Oi,K€v; Tlcbs yap ov /ne'AAet, e07y, d tolovtos cov 
Kal ioLKevai rot? tolovtois, d 8e />f)7 ioiKevat; 
KaAdj?. TOLovTos dpa iarlv e'/cdrepo? avrcov OLOirep 
€oiKev. 'AAAd Tt /xe'AAet; e0?^. Eiev, cS Gpacrd- 

" The assumption that a thing is what it is like is put as 
an inference from Thrasymachus's ready admission that the 
unjust man is wise and good and is like the wise and good. 
Jevons says in " Substitution of Similars " : " Whatever is true 
of a thing is true of its like." But practical logic requires 
the qualification "in respect of their likeness." Socrates, 


man ? " " By no means," he said; " otherwise he 
would not be the dehghtful simpleton that he is." 
" And would he exceed or overreach or go beyond 
the just action ? " " Not that either," he replied. 
" But how would he treat the unjust man — ■ 
M'ould he deem it proper and just to outdo, over- 
reach, or go beyond him or would he not ? " " He 
would," he said, " but be wouldn't be able to." 
" That is not my question," I said, " but whether it 
is not the fact that the just man does not claim or 
wish to outdo the just man but only the unjust ? " 
" That is the case," he rephed. " How about the 
unjust then ? Does he claim to overreach and outdo 
the just man and the just action ? " " Of course," 
he said, " since he claim* to overreach and get the 
better of everything." " Then the unjust man will 
overreach and outdo also both the unjust man and the 
unjust action, and all his endeavour will be to get 
the most in everything for himself." " That is so." 
XXI. " Let us put it in this way," I said ; " the 
just man does not seek to take advantage of his hke 
but of his unlike, but the unjust man of both." " Ad- 
mirably put," he said. " But the unjust man is in- 
telhgent and good and the just man neither." " That, 
too, is right," he said. " Is it not also true," I said, 
" that the unjust man is Hke the intelhgent and 
good and the just man is not ? " " Of course," he 
said, " being such he will be Uke to such and the 
other not." "Excellent. Then each is such " as that 
to which he is Uke." " What else do you suppose ? " 

however, argues that since the just man is like the good 
craftsman in not overreaching, and the good craftsman is 
good, therefore the just man is good. The conclusion is 
sound, and the analogy may have a basis of psycholc^cal 
truth ; but the argument is a verbal fallacy. 



ficLX^' fiovaiKov Be Ttva Ae'yei?, erepou 8e dfxovaov 
"Eyojye. Horepov ^poviyiov kol TTorcpov acjipova; 
Tov fxev fjLOVcrtKov 8t]7tov (f)p6vt[xov, tov Se ajxovaov 
a.(f)pova. OvKovv Kal arrep ^povipLov, ayadov, a 
Be a^pova, KaKov; Nat. Tt Se tarpi-Kov; ou;^ 
ovTcos; OvTcos. AoKcX av ovv ris aoi, cS aptcrre, 
fiovGLKos dvrjp appLOTrofxevos Xvpav ideXecv puovai- 
Kov dvBpos €v TTJ imrdaei Kal dveacL rcvv x^pBdii' 
TrXeoveKTelv 7) d(iovv nXeov ex^^-v; Ovk epoiye. 
Tt Be; dp.ovaov ; 'AvdyKTj, e<f)r], Tt Se larpi- 
350 Kos; ev rfj eBcoBfj 7) TToaei edeXetv dv tl larpiKov 
TrXeoveKrelv •)} dvBpos r} TTpdyp,aTos; Ov BrJTa. 
Mr} larpiKov Be; Nat. Ilept Tracrrj? Se opa 
eiriaT'qp.iqs re /cat dveTnarrjp^oavvris , et ris aoi 
BoKel eTTiar-qpnov oaricrovv TrXeio) dv edeXeiv alpei- 
adai iq oaa dXXos eTTtar-qpcov t] Trpdrreiv •^ Xeyeiv, 
Kal ov ravrd tco opoLco eavrco et? rrjv avTrjv 
TTpd^LV. 'AAA' tCTojs", €(f)''^, dvdyKTj TOUTO ye ovtcos 
ex^LV. Tt Se o dveTTiaTripiCLiv ; ovxj. 6p,OLCos p.ev 
J3 eTTiarrjpiovos TrXeoveKTTjaeiev dv, ofioLOJs Be dvcTTt- 
aTqpiovos ; "lao)?. '0 Se eTTia'rqp.ojv ao(f)6s; Oi]- 
/xi. '0 Se ao<f>6s dyados; ^rjp,L '0 apa dyados 
re Kal ao<j>6s tov fiev ofioLov ovk ideX-qaei rrXeov- 

» C/. 608 E, Gorg. 463 e, Protag. 332 a, 358 d, Phaedo 
103 c, Soph. 226 b, Phileb. 34 e, Meno 15 d, 88 a, Ale. I. 
128 B, Cratyl. 385 b. The formula, which is merely used to 
obtain formal recognition of a term or idea required in the 
argument, readily lends itself to modern parody. Socrates 
seems to have gone far afield. Thrasymachus answers quite 
confidently, ^yt-rye, but in 517x01; there is a hint of bewilder- 
ment as to the object of it all. 

* Familiar Socratic doctrine. Cf. Laches 194 v. Lysis 
210 D, Gorg. 504 d. 

' wXeoveKTeiv is here a virtual synonym of tX^ov ^x^iv. The 



he said. " Very well, Thrasymachus, but do you 
recognize that one man is a musician " and another 
unmusical ? " "I do." " Which is the intelligent 
and which the unintelhgent ? " " The musician, I 
presume, is the intelligent and the unmusical the 
imintelligent." " And is he not good in the things 
in which he is intelligent * and bad in the things in 
which he is unintelligent ? " " Yes." " And the 
same of the physician ? " " The same." " Do you 
think then, my friend, that any musician in the 
tuning of a lyre would want to overreach '^ another 
musician in the tightening and relaxing of the strings 
or would claim and think fit to exceed or outdo him ? " 
" I do not." " But would he the unmusical man ? " 
" Of necessity." he said. " And how about the 
medical man ? In prescribing food and drink would 
he want to outdo the medical man or the medical 
procedure?" " Surely not." " But he would the un- 
medical man? " " Yes." " Consider then with regard 
to all •* forms of knowledge and ignorance whether 
you think that anyone who knows would choose to 
do or say other or more than what another who 
knows would do or say, and not rather exactly what 
his like would do in the same action." " Why, 
perhaps it must be so," he said, " in such cases." 
" But what of the ignorant man — of him who does 
not know ? Would he not overreach or outdo equally 
the knower and the ignorant ? " " It may be." 
" But the one who knows is \\ise ? " " I'll say so." 
" And the wise is good ? " " I'll say so." " Then 
he who is good and wise will not ■wish to overreach 

two terms help the double meaning. Cf. Laws 691 a TXeor- 
' Generalizing from the inductive instances. 



€KT€lv, Tov §€ avofioLov T€ Kal ivavTiov. "Eoi/cev, 
€017. *0 8e KaKos re /cat ajxadrig rov re ofioLOV 
Kal rov ivavTLov. Oait'erai. Ovkovv, co Qpaav- 
lio-X^y W ^' ^y^j o dSiKOs y]jx1v rod avofiotov re /cat 
ofjiOLov TrXeovcKrel; ^ ovx ovrcos eXeyes; "Eyojye, 

C €(f>r], '0 8e ye St/cato? rov fxev ofxotov ov rrXeov- 
eKrrjaei, rov he dvofxoiov; Nat. "Eoi/cev a/ja, t^v 
S' eyco, o /x,ev Si/catos' roi ao<f}a) /cat dya^oj, o Se 
aSt/coy TO) KaKO) Kal afxadeZ. Kti'SweJet. 'AAAa 
/x-)7i' (hixoXoyovfxev, <L ye ofxoios eKarepos ei.7], 
roiovrov Kal eKarepov elvai. 'Q-fioXoyovfjiev yap. 
*0 p,ev dpa St/cato? rjpXv dvarre^avrai, d)v dyados 
re Kal ao(f>6s, 6 8e dSt/co? dpuadiq's re Kat /ca/co?. 
XXII. '0 Se Qpaavp^axos (hpioXoyrjae fxev Trdvra 

D ravra, ovx d)S eyd> vvv paSicos Xeyco, dXX* eA/co- 
fievos Kal fioyLs, fierd ISpcjros davfxaarov oaov, 
are Kal depovs ovros' rare Kal elhov eyco, irpo- 
repov he ovttco, Qpaavp^axov epvdpicovra. eireihrj 
he ovv hicoixoXoyrjadfjieda rrju hiKaLoavvrjv dperrjv 
etvai Kal ao<f>iav, rrjv he dhcKiav KaKiav re /cat 
djjLadiav, Filev, -^v S' eyo), rovro fxev rjpuv ovroj 
Keiadio, e(f)apLev he hrj Kal laxvpov elvai rijv 
dhiKLav 7] ov fxe/jivqcrat,, cS QpaavfJLax^; Me/iV'i^- 
jLtat, e(f>r]' dAA' e/xotye ovhe a vvv Ae'yet? dpeoKei, 

E /cat ex^JO TTepl avra)v Ae'yetv. ei ovv Xeyoifxi, ev 
otS' on, h-qjxrjyopelv dv /xe (f)airjs' •^ ovv ea pie 

' C/. 334 a. 

" C/. Protag. 333 b. 

" Cf. the blush of the sophist in Euthydem. 297 a. 

<* The main paradox of Thrasymachus is refuted. It will 
be easy to transfer the other laudatory epithets iffxvpiy, etc., 
from injustice back to justice. Thrasymachus at first refuses 



his like but his unlike and opposite." " It seems so," 
he said. " But the bad man and the ignoramus will 
overreach both Uke and unlike ? " " So it appears." 
" And does not our unjust man, Thrasymachus, over- 
reach both unlike and like ? Did you not say that .'' " 
" I did," he replied. " But the just man will not 
overreach his like but only his unhke ? " " Yes." 
" Then the just man is like the wise and good, and 
the unjust is like the bad and the ignoramus." " It 
seems likely." "But furthermore we agreed that 
each is such as that to which he is like." " Yes, we 
did." "Then the just man has turned out" on our 
hands to be good and ^vise and the unjust man bad 
and ignorant." 

XXII. Thrasymachus made all these admissions not 
as I now lightly narrate them, but with much baulk- 
ing and reluctance * and prodigious sweating, it being 
summer, and it was then I beheld what I had never 
seen before — Thrasymachus blushing." But when we 
did reach our conclusion that justice is virtue and 
wisdom and injustice \'ice and ignorance, " Good," 
said I, " let this be taken as established.** But we 
were also affirming that injustice is a strong and 
potent thing. Don't you remember, Thrasymachus ? " 
" I remember," he said ; " but I don't agree with 
what you are now saying either and I have an answer 
to it, but if I were to attempt to state it, I know 
very well that you would say that I was delivering 
a harangue.* Either then allow me to speak at such 

to share in the discussion but finally nods an ironical assent 
to everything that Socrates says. So Callicles in Gorg. 510 a. 
• This is really a reminiscence of such passages as Theaetet. 
162 D,Protag. 336 b, Gorg. 482 c, 494 d, 513 a flf., 519 d. The 
only justification for it in the preening conversation is 
348 A-B. 



elTTelv oaa ^ovXofjLaL, rj, el jSoyAei ipcoTav, ipcLra' 
eyo) 8e crot, (Lcnrep rats ypaval rals rovs fMvdovs 
Xeyovaais, euv ipw Kal Karavevaopiai koX dj/a- 
vevarofxai. M-qSafxojs, -^v 8' iyco, Trapd ye ttju 
aavTov So^av. "Qare aot, e<f)rj, apioKeiv, eirei- 
hrjTTep 01) K ids Xeyeiv. kultol tl aAAo jSoJAei; 
Ovhkv /xa Ata, -^v S' eyco, dAA' etrrep rovro ttoltj- 
aeis, TTOief ey<h 8e epwrrjaa). 'E/scora S-q. Tovto 
Toivvv epcoTU), orrep aprt, tva Kal e^rjs SiaaKeipd)- 
351 ixeda rov Xoyov, ottoIov ti rvyxavei ov SiKaLoavvq 
vpos ahiKiav. eXex^y) yap ttov, on /cat hvvaTOi- 
repov /cat laxvporepov etr] d8i/cta St/catoauj^?' 
vvv 8e y', e(f>riv, elirep ao(f>La re /cat aperrj iari 
SiKaLoavvT), paSicos, OLfxat, (f)avT](Terai Kal laxvpo- 
repov dSt/cta?, €7T€t,S-qTT€p earlv dfxadla rj dStKt'a. 
ovSeis dv en rovro dyvorjaeiev , dXX ovri ovrois 
aTtXaJs, c5 Qpaavpiax^, eycoye eTndvfjiw, dXXd rfjSe 
TTT) aKeipaaOaL' ttoXiv (f)aL7)s dv dSiKov elvai Kal 

B dAAa? TToXeLs eTTix^ipeZv hovXovadai dSiKOJs Kal 
KaraSeSovXcbaOai , ttoXXols 8e /cat y<^' eavrfj ex^i-v 
8ovXo}aap,€vr]v ; Ucos yap ovk; e<j)rf /cat rovro 
ye rj dpiarrj pidXiara TTOtrjaeL Kal reXecorara ovcra 
dSiKos. IS/iavddvo), etfyrjv, on aos ovros "qv 6 
Xoyos' dXXd ToSe nepl avrov crKOTrdj' TTorepov rj 
Kpetrrojv ytyvo/xevr) ttoXls TToXecos dvev SiKaioavvrjs 
rrjv SvvanLV ravrrjv e^et, ■^ dvdyKT] avrfj fxerd 

C 8iKaLoavvT]s ; Et jxev, eff)!^, (Ls ov dpn eXeyes 

' So Polus in Gorff. 461 d. 

' Cf. Gorg. 527 a. 

" Cf. 331 c, 386 B, Instead of the simple or absolute 
argument that justice, since it is wisdom and virtue, must 
be stronger, etc., than injustice, Socrates wishes to bring out 
the deeper thought that the unjust city or man is strong not 



length as I desire," or, if you prefer to ask questions, 
go on questioning and I, as we do for old wives * telling 
their tales, will say ' Very good ' and will nod assent 
and dissent." " No, no," said I, " not counter to 
your own belief." "Yes, to please you," he said, 
" since you don't allow me freedom of speech. And 
yet what more do you want ? " " Nothing, indeed," 
said I ; " but if this is what you propose to do, do 
it, and I will ask the questions." " Ask on, then." 
" This, then, is the question I ask, the same as before,, , 
so that our inquiry may proceed in sequence. What I P' \ 
is the nature of injustice as compared with justice ?l VNwj^ 
For the statement made, I beUeve, was that injustice I 
is a more p>otent and stronger thing than justice.! o / ^ 
But now," I said, " if justice is wisdom and virtue, it 
will easily, I take it, be shown to be also a stronger 
thing than injustice, since injustice is ignorance — no > 

one could now fail to recognize that — but what I 
want is not quite so simple <^ as that. I wish, Thrasy- 
machus, to consider it in some such fashion as this. 
A city, you would say, may be unjust and try <-v . 

to enslave other cities unjustly, have them enslaved *'' 
and hold many of them in subjection." " Certainly," 
he said ; " and this is what the best state will 
chiefly do, the state whose injustice is most com- 
plete." " I understand," I said, " that this was your 
view. But the point that I am considering is this : 
whether the city that thus shows itself superior to 
another will have this power -without justice or 
whether she must of necessity combine it with jus- 
tice." " If,'' " he rephed, " what you were just now 

because but in spite of his injustice and by virtue of some 
saving residue of justice. 

•* Thrasymachus can foresee the implications of either 



€X€i, rj SiKaiocTvvr] (jo(j>ia, fxera SiKaLoarvinrjs' ei 
8' CVS eyo) eXeyov, fiera dSi/cta?. Ildvu dyafiai, 
■^v 8' eyco, J) Qpaavfxax^, °''"' ^^'^ eTTiveveis fxovov 
Kal dvaveveis, aAAa /cat aTTOKpivei tto-vv KaXcog. 
Sot yap, €cf)r), ;\;a/Dt^O|Uat. 

XXIII. El) ye au ttolwv aAAa 81) /cat rdSe fioi 
XOLpiaai /cat Aeye* So/cet? dv rj ttoXlv r) crTpaTOTreSov 
t] Xrjards t] /cAcTrra? ■^ aAAo rt edvos, oaa Kotvfj 
6771 Ti epx^rat, dSt/cajs", vpd^ai, dv ri Bvvaadai, el 

D dSt/cotei' dAATyAoy?; Ou S-j^ra, 7^ 8' os. Tt 8' 
et fiT] dSiKolev; ov fxdXXov; Hdvv ye. SraCTet? 
yap 7TOV, o) Qpaav/Jiaxe, r) ye dSt/cta /cat fiLOT] 
/cat fidxas ev dAAT^Aots' Trapexei, rj Be SiKaLoa-vvr) 
ofxovoLav /cat <f>iXiav y] ydp; "Karco, ■^ 8' o?, 
tt'a (70t jXTj Si,a(f>€pa>fjiai. 'AAA' ev ye av ttoicjv, 
c5 dpiare. roSe 8e /not Aeye- apa et rovro epyov 
d8t/cia?, fucros epLTToieZv ottov dv evij, ov Kal ev 
eXevdepoLS re Kal 8ouAot? eyyiyvofxevT] fxtaelv 
TTotijcret dAATyAous' /cat araaidt^eiv /cat dhvvaTOVs 

E etp-at KOLvrj dXXiqXijJv TrpdrreLv; Yldvv ye. 
Tt 8e; dv ev Svolv eyyevrjrai, ov SioiaovTaL Kat 
IxiaijcrovcTt Kal ex^pol eaovrat, dXXijXois re Kat 
Tot? 8t/catots'; "Eo-ovrat, ecfirj, ^Edv Se Sr], co 

' For the thought cf. Spencer, Data of Ethics, § 144: 
"Joint aggressions upon men outside the society cannot 
prosper if there are many aggressions of man on man within 
the society; " Leslie Stephen, Science 0/ Ethics, Chap. VIII. 
§ 31 : "It (the loyalty of a thief to his gang) is rather a kind 
of spurious or class morality," etc.; Carlyle: "Neither 
James Boswell's good book, nor any other good thing . , . 
is or can be performed by any man in virtue of his badness, 
but always solely in spite thereof." Proclus, In Rempub. 



ajang holds good, that justice is wisdom, with jus- 
tice ; if it is as I said, with injustice." " Admirable, 
Thrasymachus," I said; "you not only nod assent 
and dissent, but give excellent answers." " I am 
trying to please you," he replied. 

XXIII. " Very kind of you. But please me in one 
thing more and tell me this : do you think that a city,** 
an army, or bandits , or thieves, or any other group that 
attempted any action in common, could accompUsh 
anything if they wronged one another ? " " Certainly 
not," said he. " But if they didn't, wouldn't they 
be more likely to ? " " Assuredly." " For factions, 
Thrasymachus, are the outcome of injustice, and 
hatreds and internecine conflicts, but justice brings 
oneness of mind and love. Is it not so ? " " So be 
it," he replied, " not to differ from you." " That is 
good of you, my friend ; but tell me this : if it is 
the business of injustice to engender hatred wherever 
it is found, will it not, when it springs up either 
among freemen or slaves, cause them to hate and be 
at strife with one another, and make them incapable 
of effective action in common ? " " By all means." 
" Suppose, then, it springs up between two, will they 
not be at outs with and hate each other and be 
enemies both to one another and to the j ust ? " " They 
will," he said. " And then will you tell me that if 

KroU i. 20 expands this idea. Dante {Convivio i. xii.) 
attributes to the Philosopher in the fifth of the ethics the 
saying that even robbers and plunderers love justice. Locke 
{Human Understanding i. 3) denies that this proves the 
principles of justice innate : " They practise them as rules 
of convenience within their own communities," etc. Cf. 
further Isoc xii. 226 on the Spartans, and Plato, Protag. 
222 B, on the inconveniences of injustice in the state of 
nature, rjSiKovv aSXrjXovs. 

VOL. r H 97 


Oavfidaie, iv evl eyyevqrai dSt/cta, yLCov firj dnoXel 
Tr]v avrrjs SvvafXLV, 7} ovhev rJTrov e^et; MtjScv 
'^TTOv ix^Tco, ^cjirj, OvKovv ToidvSe rivd ^atVerai 
exovaa rrjv Buvafiiv, olav, w dv eyyevTqraL, etre 
TToAet Tivl eire yeuei etre arparoTreSa) etVe ctAAo) 
352 6tu)Ovv, TTpwrov [Mev dSvvarov avro TTOielv Trpdrreiv 
ixed' avTov Bid to aracndt^eiv koL hia^epeadai, 
eri 8' ixdpov etvai, eavrco t€ Kai ro) evavriip 
TTOVTi Kai to; St/cato); ovx ovrcog; Yldvv ye. 
Kai iv ivl S-q, ot/xai, ivovaa ravra TrdvTa TTOL-qaei, 
dnep TT€(f)VK€v epydt,€a9at' Trpcurov jxkv dhvvarov 
avTOv Trpdrreiv TTOLr]aei araaLdl,ovTa /cat ov^ 
opLOVOovvra avTov iavr<x>, eTreira ixdpov Kai eavrco 
Kai Tols St/cat'ot?* ry ydp; Nat. At/caiot Se y 
B elalv, a> (^iXe, /cat ol deoi; "^arcoaav, ecjin). Kai 
deoZs dpa exOpos eWat o aSt/cos", c5€, 
6 §e SiKaios (f)tXos. Kvcoxov rov Xoyov, e(f)7j, 
dappcov OX) ydp eycoye croc evavriojaopiai, Iva 
pLT) rolahe dTrexdojfxaL. "Wl Stj, -^v 8' eyo), Kai 
Ttt Aoi77a fiOL rrjs eartdaeios dTTorrX'qpcoiJOV dTTO- 
KptvopLevos coGTTep Kai vvv. on fiev ydp Kai 

" The specific function must operate universally in bond 
or free, in many, two or one. The application to the 
individual reminds us of the main argument of the Republic. 
Cf. 369 A, 434 D, 441 c. For the argument many, few or 
two, one, cf. Laws 626 c. 

* Plato paradoxically treats the state as one organism 
and the individual as many warring members {cf. Introd. 
p. xxxv). Hence, justice in one, and being a friend to 
oneself are more than metaphors for him. Cf. 621 c, 416 c, 
428 D, Laws 626 e, 693 b, Epist. vii. 332 d, Antiphon 556. 45 
Diels ofiovod irpbs eavruv. Aristotle, Eth. A^ic. v. 11, inquires 
whether a man can wrong himself, and Chrysippus (Plutarch, 
Stoic. Repvg. xvi.) pronounces the expression absurd. 

'^ This is the conventional climax of the plea for any 


injustice arises in one^it will lose its force and function 
■>r will it none the less keep it ? " " Have it that it 
^eeps it," he said. " And is it not apparent that its 
oroe is such that wherever it is found in cit}^, family, 
t-amp, or in anything else, it first renders the thing 
incapable of co-operation with itself owing to faction 
and difference, and secondly an enemy to itself* and 
to its opp>osite in every case, the just ? Isn't that 
so?" " By all means." " Then in the individual too, 
I presume, its presence will operate all these effects 
which it is its nature to produce. It will in the first 
place make him incapable of accomplishing anything 
because of inner faction and lack of self-agreement, 
and then an enemy to himself and to the just. Is it 
not so ? " " Yes." " But, my friend, the gods too ^ 
are just." " Have it that they are," he said. " So 
to the gods also, it seems, the unjust man will be 
hateful, but the just man dear." " Revel in your 
discoiirse," he said, " without fear, for I shall not 
oppose you, so as not to offend your partisans 
here." " Fill up the measure of my feast,"* then, 
and complete it for me," I said, " by continuing 
to answer as you have been doing. Now that 

moral ideal. So Aristotle, Eth. Nic. 1179 a 24, proves that 
the ffo^os being likest God is dfo<f>t.\i<rTaT(n. Cf. Democ. fr. 
217 D. fiovvoi 6fo<pi\^€i 5crots exdpcv rh aiiKtlv \ infra 382 e, 
612 E, P/u766.39e, Laws 716 d. The" enlightened " Thrasy- 
machus is disgusted at this dragging in of the gods. Cf. 
Theaetet. 162 d Oeovs re ei's to fif<Tov dyovrts. He is reported 
as saying (Diets p. 544. 40) that the gods regard not human 
affairs, else they would not have overlooked the greatest of 
goods, justice, which men plainly do not use. 

■* ecTTidffeuj keeps up the image of the feast of reason. Cf. 
354 A-B, Lysii 211c, Gorg. 52-2 a, Phaedr. 227 b, and Tim. 
17 A, from which perhaps it became a commonplace in Dante 
and the Middle Ages. 



ao(f)c6T€poi Kal dfxeLvovs /cat Suvarcarepot TrpdrTeiv 
ol StVatot (j)aLvovrai, ol Se aSt/cot ovhcv TrpdrreLV 

C ju-er' dAAi^Aojv otot t€, aAAd 817 /cat ovs" ^a^ei' 
eppconevcos TTCoTTOTe tl jxer' dXX'qXojv kolvjj Ttpd^ai 
dSt/cof? ovTa?, TOVTO ov TTavrdTTaaLv dXr]d€s 
Xeyop,ev ov yap dv dTreixovTO dX\-qXcov Kop^ihrj 
6uT€g dSt/coi, dAAd SrjXov on ivrjv rig avrols 8t- 
Kaioavvq, rj avrovs inoUi, jxajroL Kal dXX-qXovs ye 
/cat ecf) ovs rjeaav a/xa aStKetv, St ■r]v eirpa^av 
d eirpa^av, a}pp,rjaav he inl rd dSt/ca dSt/cta 
rjp.Lfi6xdrjpot, 6vT€S, €7ret 01 ye Trap.TToi'ripoi /cat 

D TeAea>? dSt/cot reAeo)? etcrt /cat Trpdrreiv dhdvaroi' 
ravTa fiev ouv on ovrcos e;\;et, p,avddva>, dXX' ovx 
wg av TO 7Tpd)TOV endeao. el Se /cat dpLeivov 
t,a)aiv ol 8t/catot tcx)v dhiKcov /cat evhaipbovioTepoi 
elaiv, onep to vaTepov TrpovdefMeda aKeif/aadai, 
aK€7TT€ov. (f>aLvovTaL p,ev ovv /cat vvv, ojs ye /xot 
So/cei, e^ cSi' elpriKapbev opicos 8' ert ^eXnov 
OKeTTTeov. ov yap Trepl tov eiriTv^ovTog 6 Xoyos, 
dXXd Trepl tov ovTiva TpoTTOv XP^ ^fj^- ^kottcl Sij, 
e(f)r]. Hkottw, rjv 8 iyco' /cat poi Xeye- 80/cet tL 

E aoi elvat lttttov epyov; "E/xotye. ^A/)' ovv tovto 

" For the idea cf. the argument in Protag. 327 c-d, that 
Socrates would yearn for the wickedness of Athens if he 
found himself among wild men who knew no justice at all. 

'' The main ethical question of the Republic, suggested 
in 347 E, now recurs. 

' Similarly 578 c. What has been said implies that 
injustice is the corruption and disease of the soul (see on 
445 a-b). But Socrates wishes to make further use of the 
argument from ipyov or specific function. 

"* Cf. on 344 D, supra, pp. 71 f. 

« See on 335 d, and Aristot. Eth. Nic. i. 7. 14. The 
virtue or excellence of a thing is the right performance of 



the just appear to be wiser and better and more 
capable of action and the unjust incapable of any 
common action, and that if we ever say that any 
men who are unjust have \igorously combined to 
put something over, our statement is not altogether 
true, for they would not have kept their hands from 
one another if they had been thoroughly unjust, but 
it is ob\ious that there was in them some justice 
which prevented them from "WTonging at the same 
time one another too as well as those whom they 
attacked ; and by dint of this they accomplished 
whatever they did and set out to do injustice only 
half corrupted" by injustice, since utter rascals com- 
pletely unjust are completely incapable of effective 
action — all this I understand to be the truth, and 
not what you originally laid do^vn. But whether it 
is also true * that the just have a better hfe than the 
unjust and are happier, which is the question we 
afterwards proposed for examination, is what we 
now have to consider. It appears even now that 
they are, I think, from what has already been said. 
But all the same we must examine it more carefully." 
For it is no ordinary "* matter that we are discussing, 
but the right conduct of life." " Proceed A\-ith your 
inquiry," he said. " I proceed," said I. " Tell me 
then — would you say that a horse has a specific work * 
or function ? " "I would." " Would you be willing 

its specific function. See Schmidt, Ethik der Griechen, i. 
p. 301, Newman, Introd. Aristot. Pol. p. 48. The following 
argument is in a sense a fallacy, since it relies on the double 
meaning of life, physical and moral (c/. 445 b and Cratyl. 
399 d) and on the ambiguity of ev ■n-paTTeiv, " fare well " and 
" do well." The Aristotelian commentator, Alexander, anim- 
adverts on the fallacy. For tpyov cf. further Epictet. Z>w. 
i. 4. 11, Max. Tyr. Di». ii. 4, Musonius, apud Stob. 117. 8, 
Thompson on ideno 90 e, Plato, Lnxca 896 d, Phaedr. 246 b. 



av deirjs Kal lttttov /cat aXXov orovovv epyov, o 
av 7] fiovo) eKeivo) TTOtrj ns rj dpiara; Ov fiav- 
ddvcx), e^Tj. 'AAA' c58e- ead* otu) av aAAoj tSots' 
7] o<j)daXp.ols ; Ov Srjra. Tt Se; d/coJcrats' aAAoi 
T] ojcnv; OuSa/xcus'. Ovkovv StKatcos av ravra 
TOVTcov <^aZjxev epya elvat; Udvv ye. Ti 8e; 
353 fJ-axai,pa av dfxneXov KXrjfia aTTOTipLOis /cat afxlXr) 
Kai aXXoLs TToXXols; Ylws yap ov; 'AAA' ovhevi 
y av, olfxai, ovtco KaXcos, d)s SpeTrdvco rw errt 
TOVTO epyaadevTL. AXrjdrj. ^Ap' ovv ov rovro 
rovTov epyov d-qoonev; Qrjcrofjiev fxev ovv. 

XXIV. Nvv B-q, olfxaL, dfieLvov av jxddois o 
apTL 7]pci}rcov Trvvdavofievos, el ov rovro CKdorov 
€17] epyov, o dv "q fMovov ri -q KaXXiara rcov d?<Xa>v 
aTTepydt,7]raL. 'AAA', e07^, fiavddvo) re /cat p,oi 
B 8o/cet rovro cKdarov Trpdyp-aros epyov elvai, 
YiLev, Tjv S eycu* ovkovv /cat dperrj So/cet ooi elvai 
eKaaro), coTrep Kal epyov ri tt poorer aKrai; tcop^ev 
8e em rd avrd ttoXlv. 6(f>daXpLdjv, (fyapuev, eariv 
epyov; "Ecttiv. *A/)' ovv /cat dperrj 6(f)daXp.(Ji)v 
ecrriv; Kat dper-q. Tt Se; <jjra)v "qv ri epyov; 
Nat. Ovkovv kol dperrj ; Kat dperrj. Tt Se 
Trdvrcov Trepi rcbv aAAa>i^; ov)( ovrw; Ovrco. 
"E;^e §7^* a/)' av irore ojxjjiara ro avrcbv epyov 
C KaXcbs dTTepydaacvro jirj e^ovra rTjv avrcbv oiKeiav 
dper-qv, dXX dvrl rrjs dperijs KaKcav; Kai ttcD? dv; 
e(f)7j- rv(f)X6rrjra yap tocos Xeyeis avn rTJs oipecog. 
"Hris, 'qv 8' eyo), avrcbv -q dperrj- ov yap ttco 



to define the work of a horse or of anything else to 
be that which one can do only Avith it or best with 
it ? " "I don't understand," he replied. " Well, 
take it this way : is there anything else with which 
you can see except the eyes ? " " Certainly not." 
" Again, could you hear with anything but ears ? " 
" By no means." " Would you not rightly say that 
these are the functions of these (organs) ? " " By all 
means." " Once more, you could use a dirk to trim 
\ine branches and a knife and many other instru- 
ments." " Certainly." " But nothing so well, I take 
it, as a pruning-knife fashioned for this purpose." 
" That is true." " Must we not then assume this to 
be the work or function of that ? " " We must." 

XXIV. " You will now, then, I fancy, better appre- 
hend the meaning of my question when I asked whether 
that is not the work of a thing which it only or it better 
than anything else can perform." " Well," he said, 
" I do understand, and agree that the work of anything 
is that." " Very good," said 1. " Do you not also 
think that there is a specific virtue or excellence of 
everything for which a specific work or function is 
appointed ? Let us return to the same examples. 
The eyes we say have a function ? " " They have." 
" Is tihere also a virtue of the eyes ? " " There is." 
" And was there not a function of the ears ? ' " Yes." 
" And so also a \irtue ? " " Also a virtue." " And 
what of all other things ? Is the case not the same ? " 
" The same." " Take note now. Could the eyes 
possibly fulfil their function well if they lacked their 
own proper excellence and had in its stead the 
defect ? " " How could they ? " he said ; " for I 
presume you meant blindness instead of vision." 
" Whatever," said I, " the excellence may be. For 



rovTO epcoTcb, dAA' ei rfj oiKeia fiev aperfj to 
avTCov epyov ev ipydaerai, to, ipya^ofxeva, KaKta 
he KaKOJS. ^AXrjdcs, ^^y], rovro ye Xeyeis. Ovkovv 
/cat cora arepofxeva rrjs avrcbv dperrjs KaKcos to 
avTCov epyov dTrepydaerai; Udvv ye. TlOefiev 
D ovv /cat TaAAa Trdvra els tov avTov Xoyov; "E/xoiye 
hoKel. "\di hrj, iierd ravra roSe aKeijjai' ipvx^s eari 
TL epyov, o a'AAo) tojv ovtcov owS' dv ivl Trpd^ais, 
otov TO ToiovSe- TO evLfxeXeladai /cat apx^tv /cat 
^ovXeveadai, /cat to. Totaura Trdvra, ead^ otco dXXcp 
r) 4'^Xl\ St/catoj? dv aura aTroSot/xev /cat <f)aLp,€v 
i8ta €Keivr]s elvat; OvSevl dXXo). Tt S' av to 
^fjv; i/ivxyjs (f)'i]crofiev epyov elvai; MaAtcrra y*, 
e^r], Ovkovv /cat dpeT-qv (f)ap,€v Tiva ^v-xrjs 
E elvai; ^ajxev. *A/d' ovv rroTe, c5 Qpaarvfiaxe, 
^^XV '^^ a.VTrjg epya ev dnepyaaeTai aTepofxevr] 
TTJg OLKeias dpeTrjs, ^ dSvvaTov; 'ASvvaTov. 
AvdyKT] dpa KaKrj ^vxfj KaKOJS dpx^i'V /cat 
eTTLfieXeladai, Trj 8e dyadfj irdvTa raura ev 
TrpdTTeiv. * AvdyKT]. Ovkovv dpeTr^v ye ^vvex<J^py]- 
aajxev ijivx^js elvai StKaioovvrjv, KaKiav 8e dhtKiav; 
^vvexojprjaapuev ydp. 'H fxev dpa St/cat'a i/jvxrj 
/cat o St/cato? dvrjp ev ^layaeTai, /ca/cdij he 6 
dhiKos. OatVerat, ^(f>V> xo-'^'d tov adv Xoyov. 
354 AAAo. pb7]v d ye ev t,cx)v /xa/captos" re /cat evhalpicov, 
6 he 1X7] TdvavTia. Ylcos ydp ov; '0 piev St/caioy 
apa evhaipLCx)v, 6 S' dhiKOS ddXios. 'Earcocrav, 

" Platonic dialectic asks and affirms only so much as is 
needed for the present purpose. 

'' For the equivocation c/. Charm. 172 a, Gorg. 507 c, 
Xen. Mem. iii. 9. 14, Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1098 b21, Newman, 
Introd. Aristot. Pol. p. 401, Gomperz, Greek Thinkers 



I have not yet come * to that question, but am only 
asking whether whatever operates will not do its 
own work well by its own virtue and badly by its 
own defect." " That much," he said, " you may 
safely affirm to be true." " Then the ears, too, if 
deprived of their own virtue will do their work ill ? " 
" Assuredly." " And do we then apply the same 
principle to all things ? " "I think so." " Then 
next consider this. The soul, has it a work which 
you couldn't accomplish with anything else in the 
world, as for example, management, rule, dehbera- 
tion, and the like, is there anything else than soul 
to which you could rightly assign these and say that 
they were its peculiar work ? " " Nothing else." 
" And again life ? Shall we say that too is the 
function of the soul ? " " Most certainly," he said. 
" And do we not also say that there is an excellence 
or virtue of the soul ? " " We do." " Will the soul 
ever accomplish its own work well if deprived of 
its own virtue, or is this impossible ? " " It is im- 
possible." " Of necessity, then, a bad soul will 
govern and manage things badly while the good 
soul will in all these things do well.* " " Of necessity." 
" And did we not agree that the excellence or virtue 
of soul is justice and its defect injustice ? " " Yes, 
we did." " The just soul and the just man then 
will live well and the unjust ill ? " " So it appears," 
he said, " by your reasoning." " But furthermore, 
he who lives well is blessed and happy, and he who 
does not the contrary." " Of course." " Then the 
just is happy and the unjust miserable." "So be 

(English ed.), 11. p. 70. It does not seriously affect the 
validity of the argrument, for it is used only as a rhetorical 
confirmation of the implication that Kaxus ipxfw, etc = 
misery and the reverse of happiness. 



€<pr). AAAa firjv adXiov ye elvai ov AucrtTeAet, 
evSaLfiova Be. Ilcbs yap ov; OvScttot* apa, (L 
jxaKoipie Qpaa-v/xax^, XvaireXearepov dSt/cta 8t- 
KaioavvTjg. Tavra S-q aoi, ^j)rj, cu HcoKpares, 
el(TTtdadoi ev tols Bei^StSeiot?. 'Ttto aov ye, rjv 
8' eyw, c5 Qpaavfxax^, iTretSij p.oi Trpdos eyevov 
KaL )(aXeTraLvo)v eiravaco. ov fievroi KaXcos ye 

B etarta/Liat, 8t' ifiavrov, dAA' ov Sid ae' dXX wairep 
ol Xixvoi Tov atel irapa^epoixevov oLTroyevovTai 
dp7Tdl,ovTes, TTplv TOV TTporepov fxerplcDS aTToXavaai, 
/cat eyu) fioi Sokco ovtco, irplv o to rrpcoTOV eoKO- 
TTovfxev evpeZv, to SiKaiov 6 tl ttot' eartV, d(f)e[jLevos 
eKCLvov opixrjaai eTTt to OKeifjacrdat Ttepl avTov, 
eiTe KaKia ioTi Kal dfj,adta etre ao^ia /cat dperq, 
/cat ifiTrearovTOS av voTepov Xoyov, ort AucrtreAe- 
QTepov T] dSt/cta t^? Si/catoaui^S', ovk dTreoxofxriv 
TO firj OVK eTTt TOVTO eXdelv drr^ e/cetVou, cooTe jjloi 

C vvvl yeyovev e/c tov StaXoyov fjL-qbev elSevaf 
OTTOTe ydp to hiKaiov firj olda o eoTL, '^X'^^fi 
etCTO/xat etre dpeT-q rt? ovaa Tvy^dvei etre /cat 
ov, Kal TTOTepov 6 exojv avTO ovk evSaifJicov ioTiv 
Tj evSatficov . 

" For similar irony cf. Gorg. 489 d, Euthydem. 304 c. 

* Similarly Holmes {Poet at the Breakfast Table, p. 108) 
of the poet : " He takes a bite out of the sunny side of this 
and the other, and ever stimulated and never satisfied," etc. 
Cf. Lucian, Demosth. Encom. 18, Julian, Orat. ii. p. 69 c, 
Polyb. iii. 57. 7. 



it," he said. " But it surely does not pay to be 
miserable, but to be happy." " Of course not." 
" Never, then, most worshipful Thrasymachus, can 
injustice be more profitable than justice." " Let this 
complete your entertainment, Socrates, at the festival 
of Bendis." " A feast furnished by you, Thrasy- 
machus," I said, " now that you have become gentle 
with me and are no longer angry." I have not dined 
well, however— by my own fault, not yours. But just 
as gluttons ^ snatch at every dish that is handed along 
and taste it before they have properly enjoyed the 
preceding, so I, methinks, before finding the first 
object of our inquiry — what justice is — let go of that 
and set out to consider something about it, namely 
whether it is vice and ignorance or wisdom and virtue ; 
and again, when later the \-iew was sprung upon us 
that injustice is more profitable than justice I could 
not refrain from turning to that from the other topic. 
So that for me the present outcome of the discussion " 
is that I know nothing.** For if I don't know what 
the just is,« I shall hardly know whether it is a \-irtue 
or not, and whether its possessor is or is not happy." 

* Hirzel, Der Dialog, i. p. 4, n. 1, argues that 5taX(i7ou 
here means " inquiry " (ErdrUrung\ not the dialogue with 

■* For the profession of ignorance at the close of a Socratic 
dialogue cf. Charm. 175 a-b. Lysis 222 d-e, Protag. 361 a-b, 
Xen. Mem. iv. 2. 39. Cf. also Introd. p. x. 

* Knowledge of the essence, or definition, must precede 
discussion of qualities and relations. Cf. Meno 71 b, 86 d-e. 
Laches 190 b, Gorg. 448 e. 



357 I. *E'yco fiev ovv ravra el-noiv (vfxrjv Xoyov 
aTTrjXXdxdo.!.' TO 8' "^v dpa, cos eoi/ce, Trpooi^iov. 
6 yap TXavKcov del re avSpeioTaros cov rvyxdvet 
TTpos aTTavra, Kal Srj Kai Tore tov Qpacrvfiaxov 
TTjv dnopprjcnv ovk aTreSe^aro, dAA' €cf)r]' 'Q, 
HcoKpareg, noTepov rjfidg ^ovXei SoKelv TreTTeiKevai, 
B Tj cos aX7]dd)s TTelaai, on Travrl rpoTTCp dp,eiv6v 
icTTi SiKatov etv-at •^ dSiKov; 'Q.s dXr]6a>s, cIttov, 
eyojy dv eXoLpirjv, el iir^ e/JLol etrj. Ov tolvvv, 
€(/)7), TTOLets o ^ovXet. Xeye yap fioi- dpd aoi SoKel 
ToiovSe Ti etvai dyadov, o Se^acfied dv e^^i'V ov 
rd)v aTTo^aivovTCOv €(f)Lefievot,, dAA' avro avrov 
eveKa d(X7Ta(,6ixevoi ; otov to xP-ipeiv Kal at 
r^hoval oaai d^Xa^els /cat fjurjSev els tov eTretra 
Xpdvov 8td ravTas yiyveTai dXXo rj xclpeiv exovTa. 

" So in Philebus lie, Philebus cries off or throws up the 
sponge in the argument. 

^ Aristotle borrows this classification from Plato (Topics 
118 b 20-22), but liking to differ from his teacher, says in 
one place that the good which is desired solely for itself is the 
highest. The Stoics apply the classification to " preferables " 
(Diog. Laert. vii. 107). Cf. Hooker, Eccles. Pol. i. 11. 
Elsewhere Plato distinguishes goods of the soul, of the body, 


I. When I had said this 1 supposed that I was done 
with the subject, but it all turned out to be only a 
prelude. For Glaucon, who is always an intrepid, 
enterprising spirit in everything, would not on this 
occasion acquiesce inThras}'Tnachus's abandonment •* 
of his case, but said, " Socrates, is it your desire to 
seem to have persuaded us or really to persuade us 
that it is without exception better to be just than 
unjust ? " " Really," I said, " if the choice rested 
with me." " Well, then, you are not doing what you 
wish. For tell me : do you agree that there is a 
kind of good *' which we would choose to possess, not 
from desire for its after effects, but welcoming it for 
its own sake ? As, for example, joy and such pleasures 
as are harmless*^ and nothing results from them after- 
wards save to have and to hold the enjoyment." " I 

and of possessions {Laws 697 b, 727-729) or as the first 
Alcibiades puts it (131) the self, the things of the self, and 
other things. 

* Plato here speaks of harmless pleasures, from the point 
of view of common sense and prudential morality. Cf. Tim. 
59 D afierafj^XifTov tjSovtjv, Milton's 

Mirth that after no repyenting draws. 

But the Republic (583 d) like the Gorgiaa (493 E-49-t c) knows 
the more technical distinction of the Philebus (42 c ff., 53 c flF.) 
between pure pleasures and impure, which are conditioned 
by desire and pain. 



CKfioLye, '^v S' eyo), So/cet ti etvai roiovrov. Tt 
Se; o avTO re aurou X^P''^ ayaTTOJ/jLev /cai tcSi' 
aTT* avTov ytyvojjbevwv ; olov av to (f>pove'iv Kal 
TO opav Kal TO vyiatveiv to, yap ToiavTO. ttov Si' 
dfji(f)6Tepa aaTTal,6ixeda. Nat, eiTTOv. TptTov Se 
opas TL, '^<f>i), ethos dyadou, iv a> to yvjxvdl^eadai 
Kal TO KdpLvovTa laTpeveadai /cai tarpeuCTts' t€ 
Kal 6 dXXos ;\;pi7/x.aTiCT/xds'; raura yap iiTLTTova 
(^at/xer dv, dxfiiXelv Se rjfxds, Kal avTa [xev eavTcov 

D €V€Ka ovK dv be^aifxeda ^x^iv, tcov 8e jxiadcbv re 
Xdpi-v Kal Tcbv dXXcov oaa yiyveTai art avTcov. 
"EcTTi yap ovv, €(f)r]v, Kal tovto TpiTov. aXXd tl 
S-q; 'Er TTOtcp, e(f)r], tovtcov ttjv SiKaioavvrjv 
358 Tidrjs; 'Eyco /xev ot/xat, rjv 8' eyco, ev tco KaXXiaTO), 
o Kal hi avTO Kal hid Ta yiyvofxeva dri" avTOV 
dyaTTTjTeov tco fxeXXovTi fiaKapto) eaeadat. Ov 
Toivvv So/cet, e(j)r], toZs ttoXXoZs, aAAa tov eTTiTTOvov 
€lBovs, o fXLadcbv 6^ €V€Ka Kal evSoKLfiT^aecov Sta 
So^av iTTLTTjSevTeov, avTO Se St' avTO (f>evKT€ov 
ihs ov ;^aAe7roi^. 

II. OtSa, '^v S' iyo), otl So/cet ovto), Kal TrctAai 
V7t6 Qpaavjjidxov d>s tolovtov ov i/reyerat, aSt/cta S' 
eTTaLveLTai,^ • dAA' iyo) Tt?, d)s eoiKe, hvap,adr]s- I^i 

B Siy, e(j)ri, aKovaov Kal ijxov, idv aoL raura SoKrj. 
Qpaavp,axos ydp jjloi ^atVerat TTpwiahepov tov 
heovTos VTTo GOV oxTTTcp 6(f)i,s KrjXr]drjvai, , ifiol 8e 

* ddiKia S' iTraiveiTai A omits. 

" Isoc. i. 47 has this distinction, as well as Aristotle. 

^ Some philosophers, as Aristippus (Diog. Laert. x. 1. 138), 
said that intelligence is a good only for its consequences, but 
the opening sentences of Aristotle's Metaphysics treat all 
forms of knowledge as goods in themselves. 



recofifnize that kind," said I. " And again a kind that 
we love both for its o^^^l sake and for its consequences," 
such as understanding,* sight, and health ? '^ For these 
I presume we welcome for both reasons." " Yes," 
I said. " And can you discern a third form of good 
under which falls exercise and being healed when 
sick and the art of healing and the making of money 
generally ? For of them we would say that they are 
laborious and painful yet beneficial, and for their 
own sake we would not accept them, but only for the 
rewards and other benefits that accrue from them," 
" Why yes," I said, " I must admit this third class 
also. But what of it ? " "In which of these classes 
do you place justice } " he said. " In my opinion, 
I said, " it belongs in the fairest class, that which a 
man who is to be happy must love both for its o^^^l 
sake and for the results." " Yet the niultitude," he 
said, " do not think so, but that it belongs to the 
toilsome class of things that must be practised for 
the sake of rewards and repute due to opinion but 
that in itself is to be shunned as an affliction." 

II. " I am aware," said I, " that that is the general 
opinion and Thrasymachus has for some time been 
disparaging it as such and praising injustice. But I, 
it seems, am somewhat slow to learn." " Come 
now," he said, " hear what I too have to say and see 
if you agree with me. For Thrasymachus seems to 
me to have given up to you too soon, as if he were a 
serpent** that you had charmed, but I am not yet satis- 

* Plutarch (1040 c) says that Chrysippus censured Plato 
for recognizing health as a good, but elsewhere Plato ex- 
plicitly says that even health is to be disregarded when the 
true interests of the soul require it. 

•* For Plato's fondness for the idea of Kij^eiv cf. The Unity 
of Plato's Thought, note 300. 



ovTTOi Kara vovv rj aTroSei^i? yiyove Trepl eKarepov 
inidv^ici) yap aKovaai, tl t ecmv CKarepov /cat nva 
€)(€L Svvap,Lv avTO Kad^ avTO evov iv rfj i/jv^fj, tovs 
Se fiicrOovs Kal ra yiyvofieva citt' avrojv edaai x^^' 
peiv. ovrcoal ovv 7TOLr]aoj, iav /cat aol Sokjj- irr- 

C avavecoaofiai top Qpaavfia-xov Xoyov, /cat irpcoTOv 
fiev ipco SiKaioavjrqv olov elvai <f>aai /cat odev yeyo- 
vevaL- hevrepov 8e ort rravres avro ol €7nTT]B€vovTes 
aKovres iTTLT-qSevovatv ws avayKalov aAA' ovx cos 
ayadov rpiTOv Se ort elKOTWs avro Spcoac itoXv 
yap ajxeivcov apa 6 rov dSiKov t] 6 rov St/catou 
pios, (hs XeyovGLv. eTrei ep^oLye, c5 HwKpares, ovri 
So/cet ovrois' airopoi pevroi 8i,aredpvXr]p,€vos ra 
(Lra, aKovcov Qpaavp,dxov /cat p.vpia>v aXXoiv, rov 

D Se vTTep rrjs St/catoawTjs' Xoyov, (Ls djxeivov aSt/cta?, 
ovSevos rrco aKrjKoa d)s ^ovXopaf ^ovXop,ai Se 
avro Kad" avro iyKa)p,Lat,6fX€vov d/coucrat. p^dXiara 
8' olp,ac av GOV TTvdeadai' 8i6 Karareivas ipco rov 
dSiKov piov iTTatvcov, eliroiv Se ivSei^op^at. aoi, ov 
rpoTTOv av ^ /cat aov aKoveiv aScKLav p,€v 
ijjeyovros, St/catocrwyyv Se eTraivovvros . aAA' opa, 
et orot ^ovXofievcp a Xeyco. IldvTa}v p.dXiara, -qv 

E S' iyo)' rrepl yap nvos av fxaXXov iroXXdKis ris 
vovv exoiv p^atpot Xeycov /cat dKOvcov; KaAAtara, 
e^T^, Ae'yets" /cat o TrpdJrov ecfirjv ipeZv, rrepl rovrov 

" Cf. infra 366 e. 
"• Cf. supra 347 c-d. 

" Cf. Phileb. 66 e. Plato affirms that the immoralism of 
Thrasymachus and Callicles was widespread in Greece. Cf. 



fied with the proof that has been offered about justice 
and injustice. For what I desire is to hear what 
each of them is and what potency and effect it has 
in and of itself dwelUng in the soul," but to dismiss"" 
their rewards and consequences. This, then, is what ' 
I propose to do, with your concurrence. I wall renew 
the argument of Thrasymachus and will first state 
what men say is the nature and origin of justice ; 
secondly, that all who practise it do so reluctantly, 
regarding it as something necessary * and not as a 
good ; and thirdly, that they have plausible grounds 
for thus acting, since forsooth the life of the unjust 
man is far better than that of the just rnan — as 
they say ; though I, Socrates, don't believe^ it. Yet 
I am disconcerted when my ears are dinned by 
the arguments of Thrasymachus and innumerable 
others."^ But the case for justice, to prove that 
it is better than injustice, I have never yet heard 
stated by any as I desire to hear it. What I desire 
is to hear an encomium on justice in and by 
itself. And I think I am most hkely to get that 
from you. For which reason I will lay myself out 
in praise of the hfe of injustice, and in so speaking 
will give you an example of the manner in which I 
desire to hear from you in turn the dispraise of 
injustice and the praise of justice. Consider whether 
my proposal pleases you." " Nothing could please 
me more," said I ; " for on what subject would a man 
of sense rather delight to hold and hear discourse 
again and again ? " " That is excellent," he said ; 
" and now hsten to what I said would be the first topic 

Introd. x-xi, and Gorg. 511b, Protag. 333 c, Euthydem. 
279 B, and my paper on the interpretation of the TimaeuSt 
AJ.P. vol. ix. pp. 403-404. 

VOL.1 I lis 


aKove, otov re tl^ /cat odev yeyove ScKaioavvrj. 
7T€(j)VK€vaL yap 8t^ (j)aaL to jxev ahiK^lv dyadov, to 
8e a8t/cet(T^at KaKov, ttXcovl Se /ca/coj VTrep^dXXeiv 
TO dSiKelo-dai t] dyado) to dSiKeZv, wot eTretSav 
dAA7^Aoi's' aSt/cajcTt re koX dSi/ccDi^ai /cat d/Ltc^orepajv 
y^voiVTai, TOLS jxr] Swajj-evois to fiev iKcl)€vyeLV 
359 TO Se alpelv So/cet Au o-treAeit' ^vvdeaOai dAAi^Aot? 
/xt^t' dSt/cetv" jLt'^jr' dSt/cetcr^at. /cat ivTevdev Srj 
dp^aadai vofxovs TiOeadai /cat ^vvdr^Kas avrdij^, 
/cat ovofiaaac to vtto tov vofiov eTrtVay/xa vopup-ov 
T€ Kal Si/catov, /cat eii'at 817 TavT-qv yeveaiv re /cat 
ovatav SiKaioavvr]? , jjieTa^v ovaav tov piev dpiuTOV 
ovTos, edv dSiKcov pirj 8t8aj StK-qv, tov 8e KaKioTOV, 
idv dSiKovpevos TtpcopeiaOai dSvvaTog fj, to 8e 
St/caiof €v pLeacp ov tovtojv dp(f)OT€pcov dyairdadai 
B ov)(^ (hs ayadov, dXX' a»? dppaxjTLo, tov dSiKelv 
Tipicopievov eTret tov Svvdpevov avTo ttol€lv /cat cvs 
dXrjOoJs dvSpa ovS' dv ivi ttotc ^vvdeadac to pi,-qT€ 
dSiKeXv jMi^re d8t/cetCT^af pLau'eadai yap dv. rj 
pikv ovv 8r] (^vaig SLKaLoavvqg , S HcoKpaTes, avT'q 
re /cat TocauTrj, /cat ef cSv- 7re^u/ce rotayra, ci? d 

III. 'Q? Se /cat ot iTriTTjSevovTes dhwapbia tov 
aSiKeiv aKovTes avTO eTnTr^SevovoL, /xdAiCTT* dv 
aLodoLpieda, el TocovSe TTOt-qaaipLev Trj SiavoLO.' 

Tt OLov re 


" Glaucon employs the antithesis between nature and law 
and the theory of an original social contract to expound the 
doctrine of Thrasymachus and Callicles in the Gorgias. His 
statement is more systematic than theirs, but the principle is 
the same ; for, though Callicles does not explicitly speak of a 



— the nature and origin of justice. By nature," they 
say, to commit injustice is a good and to suffer it is 
an evil, but that the excess of e\il in being ^^Tonged 
is greater than the excess of good in doing wrong. 
So that when men do ^\Tong and are WTonged by one 
another and taste of both, those who lack-the power 
to avoid the one and take the other determine that 
it is for their profit to make a compact with one another 
neither to commit nor to suffer injustice ; and that 
this is the beginning of legislation and of covenants 
between men, and that they name thecofnnrandment 
of the law the lawful and the just, and that this is 
the genesis and essential nature of justice — a com- 
promise between the best, which is to do wTong ^vith 
impunity, and the worst, which is to be wTonged and 
be impotent to get one's revenge. Justice, they tell 
us, being mid-way between the two, is accepted and 
approved, not as a real good, but as a thing honoured 
in the lack of vigour to do injustice, since anyone 
who had the power to do it and was in reality 
' a man ' would never make a compact with anybody 
neither to wrong nor to be WTonged ; for he would 
be mad. The nature, then, of justice is this and such 
as this, Socrates, and such are the conditions in 
which it originates, according to the theory. 

III. " But as for the second point, that those who 
practise it do so unwillingly and from want of power to 
commit injustice — we shall be most hkely to appre- 
hend that if we entertain some such supposition as 

social contract, he implies that conventional justice is an 
agreement of the weak devised to hold the strong in awe 
(Gorg. 492 c), and Glaucon here affirms that no really strong 
man would enter into any such agreement. The social 
contract without the immoral application is also suggested 
in Protag. 322 b. Cf. also Crito 50 c, f. 



C S6vT€s i^ovaiav eKarepa) rroielv 6 ri dv ^ovXrjrai,, 
TO) re BiKaio) /cat Tip ahiKix), eir' eTraKoXovdiqaai- 
fi€V decvixevoL, ttol -q iindv^ia eKarepov d^ei. in* 
avro(f)(Lpcp ovv Xd^oifiev dv top hiKaiov tco dSi/coi 
et? ravTOV lovra Sto. Trjv irXeove^iav, o Trdaa (f>vaLg 
hiajKeiv 7T€(f)VK€V to? dyadov, vojxiv Se jSta rrap- 
ayerat ctti rrjv tov laov TLfXTJv. etrj 8' dv rj e^ovaia 
r]v Xeyco roidSe p.dXiara, el avroZs yevocro olav 

T) TTore (f>aat Swafiiv rtv Trjyov tov Avbov vpoyovo) 
yeveadai. elvai fiev yap avTOV votp^eva OrjTevovTa 
irapa tco totc AuSta? dpxovri, 6p,^pov 8e ttoXXov 
y€Vop,€vov /cat aeiap-ov payrjvat ri ttJs yijs Kal 
yeveadai ;^aCT/xa /caro. tov tottov t) evep,ev ISovTa 
Se /cat davp,daavTa Kara^rjvai, Kal ISelv dXXa re 
817 p,vdoXoyovai davp^aard /cat lttttov ^^Xkovv 
kolXov, dvpiSas exovra, /ca^' a? iyKvipavTa ISeZv 
evovTa veKpov, (hs (f>aLveadai, pLelt^oj ^ /car' 

E dvdpcoTTOv, TOVTOV Se dXXo p,ev ovSev,^ Trepl Se tjj 
X^i-pi- XP^^^^^ SaKTvXj.ov, ov 7TepteX6p.evov eK^rjvai,, 
avXXoyov Se y€vop,evov rols TTOtp^eatv elajdoros, 
iv i^ayyeXXoiev Kara firjva^ tu) ^aaiXel ra Trepl rd 

* &X\o fikv ovSev A ; the translation tries to preserve the 
idiomatic ambiguity of the text : fX"" ov5ev of II would 
explicitly affirm the nakedness of the corpse. 

' The antithesis of (pinxis and v6fj.o^, nature and law, custom 
or convention, is a commonplace of both Greek rhetoric and 
Greek ethics. Cf. the Chicago Dissertation of John Walter 
Beardslee, T/w Use of cfuJais in Fifth Century Greek Liter- 
ature, ch. X. p. 68. Cf. Herod, iii. 38, Pindar, quoted by 
Plato, Gorg. 484 b. Laws 690 b. 715 a ; Euripides or Critias, 
Frag, of Sisyphus, Aristoph. Birds 755 flf., Plato, Protag. 
337 D, Gorg. 483 e, Laws 889 c and 890 d. It was misused 
by ancient as it is by modern radicals. Cf. my interpretation 
of the Timaeus, A.J.P, vol. ix. p. 405. The ingenuity of 



this in thought : if we grant to each, the just and the 
unjust, Hcence and power to do whatever he pleases, 
and then accompany them in imagination and see 
whither his desire will conduct each. We should then 
catch the just man in the very act of resorting to the 
same conduct as the unjust man because of the self- 
advantage which every creature by its nature pursues 
as a good, while by the convention of law " it is forcibly 
diverted to paying honour to ' equality.'^ The licence 
that I mean would be most nearly such as would result 
from supposing them to have the power which men say 
once came to the ancestor of Gyges the Lydian/ They 
relate that he was a shepherd in the service of the ruler 
at that time of Lydia, and that after a great deluge of 
rain and an earthquake the ground opened and a chasm 
appeared in the place where he was pasturing ; and 
they say that he saw and wondered and went down 
into the chasm ; and the story goes that he beheld 
other marvels there and a hollow bronze horse with 
little doors, and that he peeped in and saw a corpse 
within, as it seemed, of more than mortal stature, 
and that there was nothing else but a gold ring on 
its hand, which he took off and went forth. And 
when the shepherds held their customary assembly 
to make their monthly report to the king about the 

modern philologians has tried to classify the Greek sophists 
as distinctly partisans of vofios or ^I'crts. It cannot be done. 
Cf. my unsigned review of Alfred Benn in the New York 
Nation, July 20, 1899, p. 57. * Cf. Gorg. 508 a. 

' So manuscripts and Proclus. There are many emenda- 
tions which the curious will find in Adam's first appendix to 
this book. Herod, i. 8-13 tells a similar but not identical 
story of Gyges himself, in which the magic ring and many 
other points of Plato's tale are lacking. On the whole 
legend cf. the study of Kirby Flower Smith, A.J. P. voL 
xxiii. pp. 261-282, 361-387, and Frazer's Pans. iii. p. 417. 



rroLfxvia, d(f)i,K€adat Kal eKelvov exovra tov SaKrv- 
Xiov. Kadrnievov ovv jxera TOJv aAAojt' rv)(^eLV rrjv 
acfievhovriv tov SaKTvXiov Trepiayayovra vpos iav- 
Tov els TO etaco rrjs x^^P^^' tovtov 8e yevo/jLcvov 
360 o.<j)avr\ avrov yeveadai rots 7TapaKadr)fX€VOLs , Kal 
StaXeyeaOai co? Trept oixofJ-evov. /cat tov davfJidl^eLV 
T€ Kal ttolXlv €7ni/»7^Aa0a>v'Ta tov SaKTvXtov oTpeif/aL 
e^io TTjv a(f>€vS6vrjv , Kal a-TpeipavTa ^avepov ye- 
veadaL. Kal tovto ivvo-qaavTa aTToneipdadai tov 
haKTvXiov, el TavTTjv exoc ttjv Bvvap,iv, Kal avTO) 
OVTO) ^VfJL^aiveLV, aTp€(f)ovTL p.ev elaco ttjv a(f)€v- 
boinjv dSi^Aoj ylyveadai, e^w Se Si^Aoi. alado- 
fxevov 8e evdvs hiaTrpd^aodai twv dyyeXwv yev4- 

B crdai Tcbv rrapd tov ^aaiXea- iXdovTa 8e Kal ttjv 
yvvalKa avTOV pLOLxevaavTa, pLGT eKetvqs eni- 
dep.evov T<x> ^aaiXel aTTOKTelvat, /cat tyjv dpx^jv /cara- 
axelv. el ovv Svo toiovtco Sa/CTfAtco yevoiadrjv, 
Kal TOV fxev 6 8t/cato? TrepidetTO, tov 8e o d'Si/cos', 
ovSels dv yevoiTO, d)S 86^€L€v, ovtcos dSa/xavTcvos, 
OS dv fielveiev ev ttj hiKaioavvr] /cat ToXp^rjaeiev 
direxeodai TOJv aXXoTptcov /cat fiiq aTTTeadai, e^ov 
avTU) Kal €K TTJs dyopds dSecDs' o tl ^ovXoito Xafx- 

C ^dvetv, Kal elaiovTi els Tas olKias avyyiyveaOai 
OTcp ^ovXoLTO, Kal aTTOKTivvvvai Kal €K Sea/xcov 
Xveiv ovaTivas ^ovXolto, Kal rdAAa TrpaTTeiv ev 
Tols dvdpcoTTOts loodeov dvTa. ovtcd Se hpcbv ovhev 
dv hid^opov TOV eTepov ttolol, dAA' errl TavTOv 
toiev dpL(f)6Tepoi. KaiToi, fxiya tovto TeKi.i-qpi,ov dv 

° Mr. H. G. Wells' The Invisible Man rests on a similar 
fancy. Cf. also the lawless fancies of Aristoph. Birds 785 ff. 


, Hi r. h:.'_ 

flocks, he ako attended wearing the ring. So as he 
sat there it chanced that he turned the collet of the 
ring towards himself, towards the inner part of his 
hand, and when this took place they say that he 
became invisible" to those who sat by him and they 
spoke of him as absent ; and that he was amazed, 
and again fumbling with the ring turned the collet 
outwards and so became visible. On noting this he 
experimented >vith the ring to see if it j>ossessed 
this \irtue, and he found the result to be that when he 
turned the collet inwards he became in\isible, and 
when outwards \isible ; and becoming aware of this, 
he immediately managed things so that he became 
one of the messengers who went up to the king, and 
on coming there he seduced the king's wife and with 
her aid set ujjon the king and slew him and possessed 
his kingdom. If now there should be two such rings, 
and the just man should put on one and the unjust 
the other, no one could be found, it would seem, of 
such adamantine * temper as to persevere in justice 
and endure to refrain his hands from the possessions 
of others and not touch them, though he might with 
impunity take what he wished even from the market- 
place, and enter into houses and lie with whom he 
pleased, a nd slay and loose fr om bonds whomsoever 
he would^ ^d jn an o ther things conduct himself 
among mankind as the equal of a god.- And in so 
acting he wouH do' rib' differently from the other man, 
but both would pursue the same course. And yet 

* The word is used of the firmness of moral faith in Gorg. 
509 A and i?€p. 618 e. 

* iabdim. The word is a leit-motif anticipating Plato's 
rebuke of the tragedians for their praises of the tyrant Cf. 
infra 568 a-b. It does not, as Adam suggests, foreshadow 
Plato's attack on the popular theology. 



(paLT] Tt?, ort, ovoeig ckcov oiKaios aAA avayKaL,o- 
fievos, CO? OVK ayadov iSia ovrog, eTiei ottov y av 
OLrjrai eKaarog olos re eaeadai, aSi/cetr, dSiKeZv. 

D XvaiTcXelv yap Sr) oterai Trds dvrjp ttoXv fidXXov 
tSia rrjv dhtKLav Trjs SiKaioavv-qg , dXr}6rj olofxevos, 
(hs (f)T^a€i 6 vept Tov TOLOurov Xoyov Xeycov evret 
€1 TLs rotavrr^s e^ovaias eTriXa^opbevos fjirjhev vrore 
iOeXoi dSLKTJaai fxrjSe dipairo rcov aXXorpicov, 
ddXnjoTaTOs fi€v dv So^eiev elvai tols aladavo- 
fxeuois Kal dvo7]T6Taros , eTraivolev 8' dv avrov 
dXXyjXcov ivavriov i^aTTarcovreg dXX-qXovs Sta tov 
TOV dhiKelaOai cf)6^ov. ravra jxev ovv 8r) ovtcjs. 

E IV. Tt^v" 8e KpiGiv avrrjv tov ^lov nepi Sv Xeyo- 
fX€V, idv SiaGTrjacofxeda rov re hiKaiorarov Kal 
TOV dhiKcoraTov, oloi t eaofieda Kplvai opdcos' el 
8e fi-q, ov. Ti? ovv Srj tj SidaTaaig ; T]8e' fxrjhev 
d(f)aipcb(xev fXiJTe tov dScKov dno ttjs aSt/cia?, /A7^T€ 
TOV SiKalov (XTTO TTJs 8LKaLoavv7]s, ttAAtt TcXeov 
eKarepov els to eavTOV emr-qSevfia Tidcofxev. 
TrpcoTov fiev ovv 6 dSiKog wairep ol heivot hrjpnovp- 
yol TTOieLTO)' olov KV^epv^T-qg aKpog rj larpos Ta 
Te dSvvaTa ev ttj Tex^rj Kal Ta Bward hiaiadd- 
361 veTai. Kal toZs p-ev eTTix^ipei, Ta he id, eVt 8e 
idv dpa TTT] G(f)aXfj, iKavos iTravopdovadaf ovtco 
Kal 6 dStKos iTTix^i'POJV opddjg tols dScK'^fxaat. 
XavdaveTCj, el pLeXXei a(f)68pa aSt/co? elvac- tov 

" Of. supra 344 a, Gorg. 492 b. 

* aiadavofj-ivois suggests men of discernment who are not 
taken in by phrases, " the knowing ones." Cf. Protag. 317 a, 
and Aristoph. Clouds 1241 rots eiboaiv. 

' Cf. GoTQ. 483 B, 492 a, Protag. 327 b, Aristot. Rhet. ii. 23. 

<» Cf. infra 580 b-c, Phileb. 27 c. 



this is a great proof, one might argue, that no one J 
is just of his own will but only from constraint, in the || 
belief that justice is not his personal good, inasmuch 
as every man, when he supposes himself to have the 
power to do wTong, does wrong. For that there is 
far more profit for him personally in injustice than 
in justice is what every man believes, and believes 
truly, as the proponent of this theory will maintain. 
For if anyone who had got such a licence within his 
grasp should refuse to do any wrong or lay his hands 
on others' possessions, he would be regarded as most 
pitiable " and a great fool by all who took note of it,** 
though they would praise him '^ before one another's 
faces, deceiving one another because of their fear 
of suffering injustice. So much for this point. 

IV. "But to come now to the decision** between our 
two kinds of life, if we separate the most completely 
just and the most completely unjust man, we shall 
be able to decide rightlv, but if not, not. How, then, 
is this separation to oe made ? Thus : we must 
subtract noticing of his injustice from the unjust man 
or of his justice from the just, but assume the per- 
fection of each in his own mode of conduct. In the 
first place, the unjust man must act as clever crafts- 
men do : a first-rate pilot or physician, for example, 
feels the difference between impossibilities * and 
possibilities in his art and attempts the one and lets 
the others go ; and then, too, if he does happen to 
trip, he is equal to correcting his error. Similarly, 
the unjust man who attempts injustice rightly must 
be supposed to escape detection if he is to be alto- 
gether unjust, and we must regard the man who is 

• Cf. Quint, iv. 5. 17 " recte enim Graeci praecipiunt 
non tentanda quae effici omnino non possint." 



oAiaKo^evov 8e (f)avXov rjyqTeov la'x^a.r'q yap 
dSiKta SoKelv SiKaiov elvai firj ovra. Soreov ovv 
TO) reAeo)? aSt'/co) tt]v TeXeajraT-qv dStKiav, Kal 
ovK a(f)aLp€T€OV , aAA' iareov rd p,eytara dSi/cow- 
ra TTjv fieyiar-qv 86^av avro) TrapeaKevaKevai els 

B SLKaioavvrjv, /cat idv dpa acjidXXrjrai ri, irrav- 
opoovadai, Swaro) elvai, Xeyeiv re Ikovu) ovri irpos 
TO TTeLdeiv, idv ri firjvvr]raL rwv d^LKrjfidrcov, Kal 
^idaaadat oaa dv jStaj hi-qrai, hid re dvhpeiav Kal 
pojfXTjv Kal 8id TTapaaKetrfjV (^iXiov Kal ovaias. 
TovTov Se ToiovTov devTCs rov StKaiov nap* avrov 
laraJpLev rco Xoyco, dvSpa drrXovu Kal yevvalov, 
Kar Aia)(vXov ov Sokclv dXX elvai dyadov ideXovra. 
a(f>aLp€r€ov 6rj to Sok€lv. el yap So^ei St/catos 

C eivat, eaovrai avra> Tijxal Kal Scopeal Sokovvti 
roiovrcp etvai' dSrjXov ovv, etre tov St/catof etre 
ToJv Scopedjv re Kal rifiajv eveKa roiovros etrj. 
yvfXvojTeos 8r) Trdvrcov ttXt^v ScKaioavvqs, /cat 
7TOL7jT€os evavTLOis SiaKelpLevos TO) TTporepcp- [xrjSev 
yap dSiKCov So^av exerco ttjv fieylarT'qv dSiKLas, 
Lva jj ^e^aaavLafxevos els SiKaioavvqv rw firj 
reyyeadai vtto /ca/coSo^ias' Kal rcov dn' avrrjs yi- 
yvojxevcov dXX ltco djxerdararos p^expi davdrov, 
D So/ccuv fjiev elvai dhiKos 8ta ^lov, d)v Se SiKatos, 
Iv dpLcjiorepoi, els to ea^arov eXrjXvdoTes, o [xev 

" Cf. Emerson, Eloquence : " Yet any swindlers we have 
known are novices and bunglers. ... A greater power of 
face would accomplish anything and with the rest of the 
takings take away the bad name." 

* Cf. Cic. Be offic. i. 13. 



caught as a bungler." For the height of injustice * is 
to seem just without being so. To the perfectly 
unjust man, then, we must assign perfect injustice 
and ■withhold nothing of it, but we must allow him, 
while committing the greatest WTongs, to have 
secured for himself the greatest reputation for j ustice ; 
and if he does happen to trip,*' we must concede to 
him the power to correct his mistakes by his ability 
to speak persuasively if any of his misdeeds come to 
light, and when force is needed, to employ force by 
reason of his manly spirit and vigour and his provision 
of friends and money ; and when we have set up an 
unjust man of this character, our theory must set 
the just man at his side — a simple and noble man, 
who, in the phrase of Aeschylus, does not wish to 
seem but be good. Then we must deprive him 
of the seeming.** For if he is going to be thought 
just he will have honours and gifts because of that 
esteem. We cannot be sure in that case whether 
he is just for justice' sake or for the sake of the 
gifts and the honours. So we must strip him bare 
of everything but justice and make his state the 
opposite of his imagined counterpart.* Though doing 
no wrong he must have the repute of the greatest 
injustice, so that he may be put to the test as regards 
justice through not softening because of ill repute 
and the consequences thereof. But let him hold on 
his course unchangeable even unto death, seeming 
all his life to be unjust though being just, that so, 
both men attaining to the limit, the one of injustice, 

* Cf. Thucyd. viii. 24 on the miscalculation of the shrewd 

"* As Aristotle sententiously says, Spoj 5^ rov Tp6s hb^av 8 
X^vBaviiv fjif\\(ov ovK 8lv IXolto (Rhet. 1365 b 1, Topics iii. 3. 14). 

• For the thought c/. Eurip. Hel. 270-271. 



biKaioavvrjs , 6 8e dSt/cta?, Kptvcovrai OTTorepos 
avTotv evSaifioveaTcpog . 

V. BajSat, '^v 8' iydi), co <f>iX€ VXavKcov, (vs 
eppctiixevojs iKarepov oxmep av^piavra els ttjv 
Kpiaiv eKKadatpeis rotv avSpolv. 'Q.s pidXtar* , €(j)rj, 
ovvapLai. ovTOLv 8e roiovrow , 013861^ en, cos iyco- 
p.aL, ^(aXeTTOv iTre^eXdelv rep Xoyoj, otos eKarepov 

E ^to? €Tnp,€V€t. XeKriov ovv koL St) kov dypoi- 
KOTepctis XeyrjTai, firj e/xe oiov Xeyeiv, a> Hoj- 
KpaTGs, aXXa rovs iiraLvovvras 7rp6 8tKaLoavvr]s 
aoiKiav. ipovai 8e rdSe, otl ovtoj hiaKeipuevos 
o SiKaios pLaaTiywaerai, arpe^Xwaerai, SeS-qaerai, 
362 eKKavdrjcrerai Td)(f)6 aXpco , reXevraJv Trdvra KaKo. 
vadcbv dt'aCT;^tv8yAey^7yCTeTai, /cat yvioaerai, on 
OVK eivai SiKaiov dXXd SoKelv Set ideXeiv to Se 
rov AloxvXou ttoXv rjv dpa opdorepov Xeyeiv Kara 
rov dhiKOV. ra> ovn yap ^rjaovai rov dSiKov, aire 
€mrr]8evovra TrpdypLa dXrjdeias exop-evov koi ov 
TTpos So^av ^cvvra, ov Sokclv dSiKOv dAA' elvat 

^adelav dXoKa Sid <f)pevds Kapirovpievov, 

g e^ •^S" rd KeSvd ^Xaardvei jSouAeu/xara, 

TTpojrov p,€v dpx^tv iv rfj iroXei hoKovvn SiKatco 
€tvai, eTTeira yapLelv orrodev dv ^ovXrjrai, CKSihovat 
€LS ovs dv ^ovXr)rai, ^vp^dXXetv, Koivojvelv ols 
dv edeXrj, Kal irapd ravra Trdvra oj^eXeZadai 
Kephaivovra rep p,rj Svaxepaiveiv rd dSt/ceti^- els 

" Cf. infra 540 c. 

" Cf. infra 613 e, Gorg. 486 c, 509 a, Apol. 32 d. The 
Greeks were sensitive to rude or boastful speech. 

" Or strictly " impaled." Cf. Cic. De Rep. iii. 27. Writers 
on Plato and Christianity have often compared the fate 
of Plato's just man with the Crucifixion. 


THE REPUBLIC, BOOK 11^ .--'J^.J/'^ui'k. 

the other of justice, we may pass judgement which 
of the two is the happier." 

V. "Bless me, my dear Glaucon," said I, "how 
strenuously you polish off each of your two men for 
the competition for the prize as if it were a statue !**" 
" To the best of my ability," he replied, " and if such 
is the nature of the two, it becomes an easy matter, 
I fancy, to unfold the tale of the sort of life that 
awaits each. We must tell it, then ; and even if my 
language is somewhat rude and brutal,'' you must not 
suppose, Socrates, that it is I who speak thus, but 
those who commend injustice above justice. What 
they will say is this : that such being his disposition 
the just man -will have to endure the lash, the rack, 
chains, the branding-iron in his eyes, and finally, 
after every extremity of suffering, he will be crucified,*' 
and so will learn his lesson that not to be but to seem 
just is what we ought to desire. And the saying of 
Aeschylus'* was, it seems, far more correctly appUcable 
to the unjust man. For it is literally true, they will 
say, that the unjust man, as pursuing what clings 
closely to reality, to truth, and not regulating his 
hfe by opinion, desires not to seem but to be unjust, 

Exploiting the deep furrows of his wit 

From which there grows the fruit of counsels shrewd, 

first office and rule in the state because of his reputa- 
tion for justice, then a wife from any family he 
chooses, and the giving of his children in marriage 
to whomsoever he pleases, dealings and partnerships 
with whom he will, and in all these transactions 
advantage and profit for himself because he has no 
squeamishness about committing injustice ; and so 


Septem 592-594. 

1 ■ 


dyojvas roivvv lovra /cat tSta /cai SrjiJLoaia irepi- 
yiyveadai koI rrXeoveKrelv rcov e-xQpcJov, irXeov- 
€Krovvra he TrXovretv Kat rovs re cfiiXovg ev 

C TTOielv /cat Tovg i)(dpovs ^XaTTTeiv, Kal Oeolg Ovacas 
/cat dvad-qfJiaTa LKavois Kal jJieyaXoTrpeTTCos dv€iv 
T€ Kal dvaridivai, /cat depaTreveiv rov SiKalov 
TToXi) dfieivov rovs Oeovs /cat rtov dvdpcoTTOiv ovs 
dv ^ovXrjTai, axTTC Kal OeocfjtXearepov avrov etvat 
pidXXov TTpoaT^KCLv e/c Tojv €lk6tcov T] tov SlKaLOV. 
ovroi (fiaoLv, d) ILcoKpares, Trapd dedjv Kai Trap 
dvdpcoTTcov Tcp dhtKcp irapeaKevdadai rov ^iov 
dfjueivov 7) Tip hiKaicp. 

VI. Taur' eliTovTos rov TXavKcovos, iyd) fxev 

D iv v<p elxov TL Xeyeiv rrpos ravra, 6 8e dSeA^o? 
avTov 'ASet/xavTO?, Ov tl ttov otet, 6^17, c5 2a»- 
Kpareg, LKavdjs elpijadat Tiepl rod Xoyov; 'AAAa 
Tt piTiv; eiTTOv. Auto, '^ 8' ds, ovk eipiqr ai o 
jjidXiara eSet p'q6r]vai. Ovkovv, ■^v 8 eyd), to 
Xeyopuevov, d8€Xcf)6s av8pt Trapei-q- ojare Kal gv, 
et Tl oSe eAAeiTret, indp^vve. Kairoi e/xe ye t/cam 
/cat TCI VTTo TOVTOV piqdivTa /caTaTraAataat /cat 

E a8waTOi' TTOirjaai ^orjOeXv SiKaioavvrj . /cat os", 
Oi5SeV, e(f)r], Xeyeig, dXX eVt /cat Ta8e a/coye* Set 
ydp hieXdelv rjjjLds Kal rovs ivavrtovg Xoyovs d>v 
oSe eiTTev, ol SiKaiocrvvrjv [xev iiraivovaiv, dSiKiav 
8e ipeyovatv, tv' t? cra^earcpov fxoi So/cet jSouAe- 
CT^at rAau/cojr. XiyovoL 8e' ttou /cat TrapaKeXevovrai 
Trarepes re vleai /cat ndvres ol rivd)v Kr)S6p,evoL, 

" Cf. supra on StS d, 349 b, " Cf. supra 333 d. 

" fieyaXoirpeirws. Usually a word of ironical connotation 
in Plato. 

•* Cf. Euthyphro 12 e ff. and supra 331 b, ^ec^ Ovalas, where 





they say that if he enters into lawsuits, pubUc or 
private, he ^\'ins and gets the better of his opponents, 
and. getting the better,^ is rich and benefits his friends 
and harms his enemies ^ ; and he performs sacrifices 
and dedicates votive offerings to the gods adequately 
and magnificently,*^ and he serves and pays court ^ to 
men whom he favours and to the gods far better 
than the just man, so that he may reasonably expect 
the favour of heaven * also to fall rather to him than 
to the just. So much better they say, Socrates, is 
the life that is prepared for the unjust man from 
gods and men than that which awaits the just." 

VI. When Glaucon had thus spoken, I had a mind to 
make some reply thereto, but his brother Adeimantus 
said, " You surely don't suppose, Socrates, that the 
statement of the case is complete t " " Why, what 
else?" I said. " The very most essential point," said 
he, " has not been mentioned." " Then," said I, " as 
the proverb has it, ' Let a brother help a man ' ^ — and 
so, if Glaucon omits any word or deed, do you come 
to his aid. Though for my part what he has already 
said is quite enough to overthrow me and incapacitate 
meforcoming to the rescue of justice." " Nonsense," 
he said, " but listen to this further point. We must 
set forth the reasoning and the language of the 
opposite party, of those who commend justice and 
dispraise injustice, if what I conceive to be Glaucon's 
meaning is to be made more clear. Fathers, when 
they address exhortations to their sons, and all 

the respectable morality of the good Cephalus is virtually 
identical with this commercial view of religion. 

* Cf. supra 352 b and 613 a-b. 

' dSeX^s dvSpi irapeiri. The rhythm perhaps indicates a 
proverb of which the scholiast found the source in Odyssey 
xvi. 97. 



363 CD? XP^ SiKaiov etvai, ovk avro SiKaLoavvrjv in- 
aLvovvres, aAAa rag oltt* avrrjs evSoKLfjirjaeig, tva 
SoKovvTt SiKrato) elvai yiyvriraL airo Trjs So^t]? 
apxo.1 T€ Kal ydfiOL /cai ocraTrep TXavKcov SirjXdev 
dpTL (XTTO Tov evSoKifielv ovra rep ahiKcp} inl 
TrXeov 8e ovtol to. rcJov So^cbv Xeyovai' ras yap 
TTapa Oecjv eySo/ci/xrycrets efx^aWovres a(f)dova 
exovai, Xiyeiv ayadd, rots oaiois a. ^aot deovs 
Si86vat, coa-nep 6 yevvaZos 'HatoSo? re /cat "O/xtj- 
B pos <^a(TLV, 6 piev rds Spvg rols St/caiot? rovs deovs 

OLKpas p-ev T€ (f)€p€LV ^aXdvovs, /xecTCTa? 8e p,eXiauas 
CLpoTTOKOL 8' olcs, (firjaiv, pLoXXois KaTa^e^ptdaai, 

Kal dXXa Srj 77oAAd dyadd tovtcov ixopLCva' Trapa- 
irTXrjai^a Se Kal 6 erepos' ware rev ydp ^r^aiv 

rj ^aaiXrjos dpivp,ovos , oare deovSrjs 
evBiKias dvexDOi, (jyeprjai 8e yaZa p^eXaiva 
C TTvpovs Kal Kpidds, fipid-QOi 8e SevSpea KapTTCO, 
TLKTT} 8' €p,7TeSa p,rjXa, ddXaaaa 8e Trapexj] Ix^^^- 

Movaralos Se tovtcov veaviKcorepa Tayadd Kal 6 

^ dSiKif) recent mss. : cf. 362 b : the SiKai(f} of A and 11 can 
be defended. 

" Who, in Quaker language, have a concern for, who 
have charge of souls, Cf. the admonitions of the father 
of Horace, Sat. i. 4. 105 ff., Protag. 325 d, Xen. Cyr. i. 
5. 9, Isoc. iii. 2, Terence, Adelphi 414 f., Schmidt, Ethik 
der Griechen, i. p. 187, and the letters of Lord Chesterfield 
passim, as well as Plato himself. Laics 662 e, 

* Hesiod, Works and Days 232 f.. Homer, Od. xix. 109 if. 

' Cf. Kern, Orphicorum Fragmenta, iv. p. 83. The son is 
possibly Eumolpus. 


those who have others in their charge," urge the '*^''^* 

\0' ik^^^i\c<i. 

necessity of being just, not by praising justice itself, 
but the good repute -with mankind that accrues from 
it, the object that they hold before us being that by 
seeming to be just the man may get from the 
reputation office and alliances and all the good things 
that Glaucon just now enumerated as coming to the 
unjust man fi-om his good name. But those people 
draw out still further this topic of reputation. For, 
throwing in good standing with the gods, they 
have no lack of blessings to describe, which they 
affirm the gods give to pious men, even as the worthy 
Hesiod and Homer ^ declare, the one that the gods 
make the oaks bear for the just : 

Acorns on topmost branches and swarms of bees on their 

and he tells how the 

Flocks of the fleece-bearing sheep are laden and weighted 
with soft wool, 

and of many other blessings akin to these ; and 
similarly the other poet : 

Even as when a good king, who rules in the fear of the 

high gods, 
Upholds justice and right, and the black earth yields him 

her foison. 
Barley and wheat, and his trees are laden and weighted 

with fair fruits. 
Increase comes to his flocks and the ocean is teeming with 


And Musaeus and his son'' have** a more excellent 

■* For the thought of the following cf. Emerson, Compensa- 
tion: "He (the preacher) assumed that judgement is not 
executed in this world ; that the wicked are successful ; that 
the good are miserable; and then urged from reason and 
scripture a compensation to be made to both parties in the 
next life. No oiFence appeared to be taken by the congrega- 
tion at this doctrine." 

VOL. I K 129 


vlos avTOV TTapa decov SiSdaat Tot? St/catot?* ei? 
"AiSou yap dyayovres to) Adyoj /cat KaraKXivavres 
/cat avfJLTTOGiov Ta>v oglwv KaraaKevaaavreg ear€- 
D cf)aua)p.€uovg ttolovgl t6i> aTravra xpo^ov rjSr] hiayeiv 
jxeOvovrag, rjyr]crdix€VOL /caAAtcrrov dperrjs ixiadov 
fxedrju alojvLov ol S' ert tovtwv jJiaKporepous 
diToreivovaL^ pnadovs Trapd decov TraiSa? yap 
■naihoiv (f)aal /cat yevos KaroTTiaOev XciTreadai rov 
ooiov /cat evopKov. ravra Srj /cat aAAa roiavra 
iyKioyndt^ovai hiKaioavvrjV' rovs Be avocrLovs av 
/cat dSiKovs ets tttjXov riva KaTopvrrovaiv ev 
"AtSoy /cat KoaKLVcp vhu>p dvayKa^ovat (fiepeiv, ert 
E re l,(ji)vra'5 els /ca/ca? Sd^a? ayoi'Tes', aTrep VXavKa)v 
TTepl TOiv hLKaia)v ho^at^opLevcjv he aSt/cajv 8ifjX6e 
TtpLOJp-qfxaTa, ravra rrepl rcbv dhiKOiv Xeyovaiv, 
aAAa Se ovk exovaiv. 6 piev ovv eTraivos /cat o 
ijjoyos ovrog eKarepcov. 

VII. rTpd? Se roTjrois crKei/jaL, cb HcoKpares, dXXo 
av el8os X6ya>v Trepl St/catoawryS" Te /cat aSt/cta? 
364 iSt'a re Xeyofxevov /cat utto TTOi-qrcav . vdvreg yap 
e^ evog aropcaros vpivovaiv, cos KaXov puev rj ao)(f)po- 
avvT] re Kal StKaLoavvrj, ;^aAe7rdi' p,evroL /cat 
eTTLTTOvov dKoXaoia he /cat dhiKta rjhv puev /cat 
evTTeres Kr-qaaadat,, ho^rj he pLOVOV /cat vopiO) at- 
axpov. XvaireXearepa he raJv St/catcov rd aSi/ca 

^ airoTtivovaiv AIIS: airorlvovaiv q. 

<• veaviKtbrepa is in Plato often humorous and depreciative, 
Cf. infra 563 e yeacu-r}. 

'' avuwoaiov tO)v oaluv. Jowett's notion that this is a jingle 
is due to the English pronunciation of Greek. 

' Kern, ibid., quotes Servius ad Virgil, Aen. iii. 98 " et nati 



song" than these of the blessings that the gods 
bestow on the righteous. For they conduct them 
to the house of Hades in their tale and arrange a 
symposium of the saints,'' where, reclined on couches 
and crowned \nth wreaths, they entertain the time 
henceforth with wine, as if the fairest meed of virtue 
were an everlasting drunk. And others extend still 
further the rewards of virtue from the gods. For 
they say that the children's children '^ of the pious 
and oath-keeping man and his race thereafter never 
fail. Such and such-like are their praises of justice. 
But the impious and the unjust they bury in mud** 
in the house of Hades and compel them to fetch water 
in a sieve,* and, while they still live, they bring them 
into evil repute, and all the sufferings that Glaucon 
enumerated as befalling just men who are thought 
to be unjust, these they recite about the unjust, but 
they have nothing else to say.^ Such is the praise 
and the censure of the just and of the unjust. 

VH. " Consider further, Socrates, another kind of 
language about justice and injustice employed by both 
laymen and poets. All with one accord reiterate that 
soberness and righteousness are fair and honourable, 
to be sure, but unpleasant and laborious, while licen- 
tiousness and injustice are pleasant and easy to win 
and are only in opinion and by convention disgraceful. 
They say that injustice pays better than justice, 

natorum" and opines that Homer took //. xx. 308 from 

" Cf. Zeller, Phil. d. Gr. i. pp. 56-57, infra 533 d, 
Pkaedo 69 c, commentators on Aristoph. Frogs 146. 

' Cf. my note on Horace, Odes iii. 11. 22, and, with an 
allegorical application, Gorg. 493 b. 

' Plato elsewhere teaches that the real punishment of sin 
is to be cut off from communion with the good. Theaetet. 
176 D-E, Laws 728 b, infra 367 a. 



COS" iTTL TO TTXrjdos Xiyovot, Koi TTOvrjpovs nXovaiovs 
Koi aXXas hvvdjxei's €)(ovTas euSat/xovt^etv' /cat 
TLjjiav evx^poJ? edeXovai hrjiioaia re /cat tSta, tous" 

B Se drtju.a^eit' Kat virepopav, ol av irrj aadevelg re 
/cat 7T€vr)T€s (Laiv, opoXoyovvres avrovg d/xetVou? 
eiv'at Tcbv irepcov. rovroiv he navTiov ol nepl deutv 
re Xoyoi /cat dperrjs davpLaaLcoraTOL Xeyovrai, d>s 
dpa /cat deal ttoXXols p-ev dyadolg 8uaTV)(las re 
/cat ^iov KaKov evetpav, rolg §' evavriois evavriav 
p,olpav. dyvprai Se /cat pcavreLS ern TrXovaicov 
dvpas lovres Treidovaiv co? eoTi Trapd acjiiai Swa/Lttj 
e/c decov Tropt^o/xeVrj dvaiais re /cat eTTcpSais, etre 

C TL dSiKrjpd Tov yeyovev avrov rj TvpoyovoiV, a/cet- 
CT^at p,ed^ rjSovaJv re /cat eoproiv, edv re TLva 
i)(dp6v 7Tr]p,rjvat, eOeXrj, puerd apuKpcov SaTravatv 
opLOLOJS St'/catop' dSt/coj ^Xdtpeiv, eTraycoyais tlgl 
/cat KaraSeapLoig rovs deovs, o)s <l>aut, Treidovres 
a^Laiv 1)777] perelv. rovToig he Trdai rols Aoyot? 
p.dpTvpag 7TOt.r]rds eTrdyovrai, ol p,ev /ca/ctaj Trepi 
ev7Tereias hihovres, co? 

rrjv p,ev KaKOTTjra /cat iXahov eoTiv eXeadai 

J) prjChlaJS' Xeir] p,ev oho?, pdXa S' iyyvdi vaUf 
Trjs S' dperrjs Ihpcora deol 7Tpo7TdpoLdev edrjKav 
Kat Tiva ohdv piaKpdv re /cat dvdvrr]' ol he rrjs rdjv 

" The gnomic poets complain that bad men prosper for a 
time, but they have faith in the late punishment of the wicked 
and the final triumph of justice. 

'' There is a striking analogy between Plato's language 
here and the description by Protestant historians of the sale 
of indulgences by Tetzel in Germany. Rich men's doors is 
proverbial. C/. 489 b. 

" Cf. Mill, " Utility of Religion," Three Essays on Religion, 
p. 90: "All positive religions aid this self-delusion. Bad 
religions teach that divine vengeance may be bought off by 

THE REPUBLIC, BOOK if'»'^''^r^^ ^\*- 

for the most part, and they do not scruple to fehcitate 
bad men who are rich or have other kinds of power 
and to do them honour in pubhc and private, and to 
dishonour and disregard those who are in any way 
weak or poor, even while admitting that they are 
better men than the others. But the strangest of 
all these speeches are the things they say about the 
gods " and \irtue, how so it is that the gods themselves 
assign to many good men misfortunes and an evil 
life, but to their opposites a contrary lot ; and begging 
priests ^ and soothsayers go to rich men's doors and 
make them believe that they by means of sacrifices 
and incantations have accumulated a treasure of 
power from the gods "^ that can expiate and cure ^nth 
pleasurable festivals any misdeed of a man or his 
ancestors, and that if a man wishes to harm an 
enemy, at slight cost he will be enabled to injure 
just and unjust ahke.. since they are masters of 
spells and enchantments ** that constrain the gods to 
serve their end. And for all these sayings they cite 
the poets as witnesses, with regard to the ease and 
plentifulness of vice, quoting : 

Evil-doing in plenty a man shall find for the seeking ; 
Smooth is the way and it lies near at hand and is easy 

to enter ; 
But on the pathway of virtue the gods put sweat from 

the first step,* 

and a certain long and uphill road. And others cite 

offerings or personal abasement." Plato, Laws 885 d, 
anticipates M ill. With the whole passage compare the scenes 
at the founding of Cloudcuckootown, Aristoph. Birds 960- 
990, and more seriously the mediaeval doctrine of the 
" treasure of the church " and the Hindu tapas. 

■* In Laws 933 d both are used of the victim with irt^SaU, 
which primarily applies to the god. Cf. Lucan, Phars. vi. 493 
and 527. • Hesiod, Works and Bays 287-289. 



deoiv VTT* dvdpcoTTCov TTapaycoyrjs tov "Ojxrjpov [xap- 
Tvpovrat, oTi /cat e/ceipo? eiTre 

Atarot 84 T€ /cat Oeol avroi, 
KOI rovs fiev dvaiaiai koL ej);;^ci»Aar? ayavaZaiv 
E Xot^fj re KVLcrp re TraparpajTrcba dvOpcoTroi 
Xiaaofxevoi, ore k€v tls VTrep^-qrj Kal dixap-rrj. 

^L^Xcov 8e ofxaSov Trapexovrat Movcraiov /cat 'Op- 
(f}€a)s, HeX-qvTjg t€ /cat Movacov iyyovtov, cos (f>aat, 
Kad' aj dvrjTToXovat,, Treidovres ov jxovov tStaJras' 
oAAo. Kal TToXeig, wg dpa Xvaei? re /cat KadappLot 
dSiK-qixdrcov Std dvaicov /cat TratSta? riSovdJv etcri 
365 /i.ev ert l^ajatv, etcrt Se /cat reXevT-qaacriu , a? 817 
TeAera? /caAoyati^, at tojv e/cet /ca/ca)v aTToAuouCTtv 
rjp,ds, pir] duaavras 8e 8etm rrepipevei. 

VIII. Taura TTai^Ta, €<^t7, cS ^I'Ae Haj/cpaTe?, 
TOtayTa /cat roaavra Xeyopeva dperij? nepL Kal 
KaKtas, cos dvdpcoTTOC Kal deol nepl avrd kxovcrt 
TLprjs, ri olop^eda dKovovaas vioiv ijjvxds irotitv, 
oaroL €V(f)V€Ls Kal LKavol inl Trdvra rd Xeyojjieva 
wdTTcp €.TTL7Tr6jX€VOi (TvXXoyLaaadai ef avrcbv, 

B TTOLOS TIS dv (X)V Kal TTJ] TTOpevdcls TOV ^LOV Ol? 

dptara SUXdoi; Xeyot yap dv e/c tojv clkotcov 
TTpos avTov /card IltVSapot' eKclvo to 

» Iliad, ix. 4.97 ff. adapted. 

* S/xadov, lit. noise, hubbub, babel, here contemptuous. 
There is no need of the emendation dp/jLadov. Cf. infra 387 a, 
and Kern, Orphicorum Fragmenta, p. 82 ; cf. John Morley, 
Lit. Studies, p. 184, " A bushel of books." 

" Cf. Laws 819 b. 

" Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 25: "His (Plato's) 
imagination was beset by the picture of some brilliant young 



Homer as a witness to the beguiling of gods by men, 
since he too said : 

The gods themselves are moved by prayers. 
And men by sacrifice and soothing vows. 
And incense and libation turn their wills 
Praying, whene'er they have sinned and made trans- 
gression. ^ 

And they produce a bushel ^ of books of Musaeus and 
Orpheus, the offspring of the Moon and of the 
Muses, as they affirm, and these books they use in 
their ritual, and make not only ordinary men but 
states believe that there really are remissions of 
sins and purifications for deeds of injustice, by means 
of sacrifice and pleasant sport <^ for the living, and that 
there are also special rites for the defunct, which 
they call functions, that deUver us from evils in that 
other world, while terrible things await those who 
have neglected to sacrifice. 

VIII. " Wliat, Socrates, do Ave suppose is the effect 
of all such sayings about the esteem in which men and 
gods hold \irtue and \ice upon the souls that hear 
them, the souls of young men who are quick-witted 
and capable of flitting, as it were, from one expres- 
sion of opinion to another and inferring from them 
all the character and the path whereby a man would 
lead the best life ? Such a youth <* would most hkely 
put to himself the question Pindar asks, ' Is it by 

Alcibiades standing at the crossways of life and debating in 
his mind whether his best chance of happiness lay in accept- 
ing the conventional moral law that serves to police the 
vulgar or in giving rein to the instincts and appetites of his 
own stronger nature. To confute the one, to convince the 
other, became to him the main problem of moral philosophy." 
Cf. Introd. x-xi ; also " The Idea of Good in Plato's Republic," 
p. 214.. 



TTorepov Slko. reZ)(os vifjiov 
7] CKoXials airdrais 

ava^as /cat ifxavTOv ovtco 7T€pL(f)pd^ag Stasia); 
ra fxev yap Xeyo/xeva St/caio) fxev ovri pLoi, idv 
fXT] Kai hoKU),^ 6(f>€Xos ovSev (f>aaLV elvai, ttovovs 
oe Koi ^-qpLLas (f)av€pds' aSi/coj Se 86^av SLKaioavvrjs 
7TapacrK€vauap.€va) OeaTreuLos ^iog Xeyerai. ovkovv, 

C €7T€LSrj TO 8oK€LV, COS Sr^AoUCTl [JLOL ol aO(f)Ol,, /Cat 

rdv dXddeiav ^tarat /cat Kvptov evSaifxovias, €7rt 
TOVTo Srj rpcTTriov oXojs' rrpoOvpa p-kv /cat crxrjp-o. 
kvkXo) TTepl ifxavTov aKiaypa<f>iav dp^rrjs Trepi- 
ypaTTTeov, ttjv Se rov aocfxjjTdrov 'Ap;^tAd;(ou 
dXa)7T€Ka IXktIov i^OTTiadev K€pSaXeav /cat ttolklXt^v. 
dXXd ydp, ^Tjai rig, ov pdhiov del Xavddveiv 
KaKov ovra. ovhe ydp aAAo ovBev evrrereg, 
D (f)'qaop,eVy Ta>v p,€ydXcov' aAA' dpujos, et /xeAAo^Ltev 
ev^aipLOvrjaeiv , ravrrj Ireov, cu? ra t-X^ ''"^^ 
XoycDV (f>ipei. cttI ydp to Xavddveiv ^vvcop.oaias 
T€ /cat iraipeias avvd^op,ev, elai re Treidovs 8t- 
hdoKaXoi ao(f)Lav SrjfjL-qyopLK-qv re /cat SLKavtKrjv 
SiSovres, e^ (I>v rd [xev TTeiaop^ev, rd Se ^taaop,eda, 
o)? TrXeoveKrovvres Slktjv p,rj Sihovat. dXXd orj 
deovs ovre XavOdvetv ovre ^idaaaOai Svvarov. 
OVKOVV, el jxev pLrj elaiv rj p,7]8ev avrols tcov av- 

^ eav 117) Kal doKui] cf. Introd. xlix. ^ai' Kai fir} 5okGi would, 
unless we assume careless displacement of the Kai, mean " if 
I also seem not to be (just)." 

<» (pavipa fTjjLtj'a is familiar and slightly humorous. Cf. 
Starkie on Aristoph. Acharn. 737. 

* Simonides, Fr. 76 Bergk, and Eurip. Orest. 236. 



justice or by crooked deceit that I the higher tower 
shall scale and so hve my life out in fenced and 
guarded security ? ' The consequences of my being 
just are, unless I likewise seem so, not assets,'^ they 
say, but habilities, labour and total loss ; but if I 
am unjust and have procured myself a reputation 
for justice a godlike life is promised. Then since it 
is ' the seeming,' as the wise men * show me, that 
' masters the reality ' and is lord of happiness, to this 
I must devote myself without reserve. For a front 
and a show <= I must draw about myself a shadow- 
outline of virtue, but trail behind me the fox of 
the most sage Archilochus,** shifty and bent on gain. 
Nay, 'tis objected, it is not easy for a wTong-doer 
always to lie hid.* Neither is any other big thing 
facile, we shall reply. But all the same if we expect 
to be happy, we must pursue the path to which the 
footprints of our arguments point. For with a view 
to lying hid we will organize societies and political 
clubs,/ and there are teachers of cajolery' who impart 
the arts of the popular assembly and the court-room. 
So that, partly by persuasion, partly by force, we 
shall contrive to overreach with impunity. But 
against the gods, it may be said, neither secrecy nor 
force can avail. Well, if there are no gods, or they 

" A Pindaric mixture of metaphors beginning with a portico 
and garb, continuing with the illusory perspective of scene- 
painting, and concluding with the crafty fox trailed behind. 

^ Cf. Fr. 86-89 Bergk, and Dio Chrysost. Or. 55. 285 R. 
KepSaXfav is a standing epithet of Reynard. Cf. Gildersleeve 
on Find. Pyth. ii. 78. 

' Cf. my review of Jebb's " Bacchylides," Class. Phil., 
1907, vol. ii. p. 235. 

^ Cf. George Miller Calhoun, Athenian Clubs in Politico 
and Litigation, University of Chicago Dissertation, 1911. 

' Lit. persuasion. Cf. the definition of rhetoric, Gorg. 453 a. 



E 9pco7TLV(jov /xe'Aet, ovS'^ rjfui' fjieXrjTeov rod Xavddveiv 
el 8e etcrt re /cat einixeXovvr ai, ovk dXXoOev rot 
avTovs tcT^iev rj dKr]K6afjiev ^ €K re tcov Xoywv 
/cat TCOV yeveaXoyqadvTOJV ttoitjtcov' ol 8e aurot 
ovTOC XeyovGLv, (vs elalv otot dvaiais t€ /cat 
ev)(a)XaLS dyavfjai /cat dvaO-q^xaai Trapdyeadat 
auaTTeLOofievof otg r] dfxcfiOTepa -^ ovSerepa Tret- 
crreov el S' ovv ireioreov, dSt.Kr]T€OV Kal dvreov 
366 CLTTO Tcjv dSiKrjjjLdrcDV. Si/catot fiev yap ovres 
a^Ty/xtoi VTTo decbv iaofxeda, rd S' e^ dSt/ctaj 
KepSrj aTTCoaopLeda' aSt/cot 8e Kephavovp^ev re /cat 
Xtacjofievoi inrep^alvovres /cat dpiaprdvovreg Tret- 
^om-e? ayroi)? a^7]/xtot aTraAAa^OjU-ev'. aAAa yap 
ei' "AtSou SiKrjv hdxTopLev atv dv evddhe dSt/ojcrcD/xev, 
r) avrol -q TratSe? Traihojv. dXX d> (f>lXe, <j)rjaei 
Aoyt^o/xevo?, at reAerat av peya hvvavrai^ /cat ol 

B Auatot 0€ot, to? at fieyicrrat TToXets Xeyovat /cat ot 
^ecup' TratSej, TTOirjral /cat 7Tpo(f>rjrai, rojv 6ea>v 
yevopievoL, ot ravra ovrcas ex^iv p,-qvvovacv. 

IX. Kara rtVa ovv en Xoyov BLKatoavvrjv av 
TTpo pLeyiarrfg dSt/ctas" alpoLp,ed^ dv; 7]V eav per 
evaxT^poavvqs Kt^hr^Xov KriqawpeOa, /cat Trapa 
deals /cat Trap' dvOpwTTOis npd^opev Kara vovv 
^djvres re /cat reXevriijaavres, d)s 6 rcov ttoAXiov 

^ ov5' q: Kai A. This is the simplest and most plausible 
text. For a possible defence of Kai cf. Introd. p. xlix. 
^ aB fi^ya. SvfavTai : A omits. 

" For the thought compare Tennyson, " Lucretius" : 
But he that holds 
The Gods are careless, wherefore need he care 
Greatly for them ? 
Cf. also Eurip. J.A. 1034-1035, Anth. Pal. x. 34. 
* €/■ Verres' distribution of his three years' spoliation of 


do not concern themselves with the doings of men, 
neither need we concern ourselves with eluding their 
observation." If they do exist and pay heed, we 
know and hear of them only from such discourses 
and from the poets who have described their pedigrees . 
But these same authorities tell us that the gods 
are capable of being persuaded and swerved from 
their course by ' sacrifice and soothing vows ' and 
dedications. We must believe them in both or 
neither. And if we are to believe them, the thing 
to do is to commit injustice and offer sacrifice from 
the fruits of our wrong-doing. ** For if we are just, 
we shall, it is true, be unscathed by the gods, but we 
shall be putting away from us the profits of injustice ; 
but if we are unjust, we shall win those profits, and, 
by the importunity of our prayers, when we trans- 
gress and sin we shall persuade them and escape 
scot-free. Yes, it will be objected, but we shall be 
brought to judgement in the world below for our un- 
just deeds here, we or our children's children. ' Nay, 
my dear sir,' our calculating friend "^ will say, ' here 
again the rites for the dead<^ have much efficacy, and the 
absolving di\inities, as the greatest cities declare, and 
the sons of gods, who became the poets and prophets * 
of the gods, and who reveal that this is the truth.' 

IX. " On what further ground, then, could we prefer 
justice to supreme injustice .'' If we combine this 
with a counterfeit decorum, we shall prosper to our 
heart's desire, with gods and men, in life and death, as 
the words of the multitude and of men of the highest 

Sicily, Cic. In C. Verrem actio prima 14 (40), and Plato, 
Lairs 906 c-d, Lysias xxvii. 6. 

* His morality is the hedonistic calculus of the Protagora$ 
or the commercial religion of " other-worldliness." 

* For these TtXerai c/. 365 a. * Or rather " mouthpieces." 



re /cat aKpcov Xeyo^evos Xoyog. e/c Srj ttolvtcov 
Tcov elp-Qfievcvv ris iJLr])(^avrj , c5 ILajKpares, St/cato- 

C avmrjv np^av ideXcLv, a> ti? hvvayns VTrdpx^i tjjvx'rjs 
T] ;^/37y/xaTa>v 7} acLpLaros ri yevovs, dXXa p,rj yeXdv 
€7TaLvovp,ev'qg aKovovra; cu? S17 TOi ei ns ex^i 
ipevhi] fiev d7TO(f)rjvai d elp-qKap^ev, LKavoJs 8e 
eyv(OK€v on dpiOTOv SiKatoavvrj , TToXX-qv ttov 
avyyvojp.rjv ex^L /cat OVK opyi^erat rols aSt/cots', 
aAA' olSev, on ttXtjv et ns deia (f)va€i hvax^po-ivoiv 
TO dhiKelv r) €7nar'qp,rjv Xa^d)V dirix'^TCii avrov, 

D TUiv ye (lAAcov ouSet? eKcjv St/caios", dAA' utto 
ai'av'Spta? "^ yrjpojs rj tlvo? dXXrjs dadeveia^ ipeyei 
TO dSi/cetr, dSvvarcJov avro Spav. cos Se, SrjXov 
o yap TTpdJrog tojv tolovtcvv els Svvapav eXdojv 
TTpdjTos dSiKel, Kad^ ocrov dv olos t' 7y. /cat tovtojv 
dnavTCov ovSev ctAAo atrtov iq eKelvo, odevirep 
airas 6 Xoyos ovros ojp[XT]ae /cat rcpSe /cat ep.oi 
■npos oe, & YidiKpares , el-neXv, on, c5 Oavpdaie, 

E TTavTcov vp,cov, oaoi eiraiveTaL <^are SLKaioavvrjs 
elvai, drro tcov e^ dpXTJS rjpcocov dp^djjievoL, ocrojv 
XoyoL AeAet/x^eVot, P'^XP^ '^^^ ^^^ dvdpcoiTCDU 
ovSels TTioTTOTe eifje^ev dSt/ctav ouS' eTT-pveae 
hLKaLoavvTjv dXXcos rj Sofa? re /cat Tipds /cat 
Sojpeds Tcts" aTr' aurojv yiyvopbivas' avTO 8 
eKaTepov ttj avTOV Swdpet ev ttj tov exovTos 
fpvxfj evov /cat Xavddvov deovs Te /cat avOpayrrovs 
oySet? TTcoTTOTe out^ ev TTOi-qaei ovt* ev IhioLS XoyoLS 
erre^rjXdev LKavdjs tco Xoyco, (hs to pev p,eytaTOV 
KaKOiv oaa laxei ^^xh ^^ o-^tjj, SiKaLocrvvr] 8s 
367 peyiCTTOv dyadov. el yap ovtcos eXeyeTO e'f dpx^js 

« Aristoph. Clouds 1241. " Cf. Gorg. 492 a. 



authority declare. In consequence, then, of all 
that has been said, what possibility is there, Socrates, 
that any man who has the power of any resources 
of mind, money, body, or family should consent to 
honour justice and not rather laugh" when he hears 
her praised ? In sooth, if anyone is able to show the 
falsity of these arguments, and has come to know 
with sufficient assurance that justice is best, he 
feels much indulgence for the unjust, and is not 
angry with them, but is aware that except a man 
by inbgrn_di\'inity of his nature disdains injustice, 
or,4javing won to knowledge, refrains from it, no one 
else is willingly just, but that it is from lack of manly 
spirit or from old 4ge. or some other weakness '' that 
men dispraise injustice, lacking the power to practise 
it. The fact is patent. For no sooner does such 
an one come into the power than he works injustice 
to the extent of his ability. And the sole cause of 
all this is the fact that was the starting-point of this 
entire plea of my friend here and of myself to you, 
Socrates, pointing out how strange it is that of all 
you self-styled advocates of justice, from the heroes 
of old whose discourses survive to the men of the 
present day, not one has ever censured injustice or 
commended justice otherwise than in respect of the 
repute, the honours, and the gifts that accrue from 
each. But what each one of them is in itself, by 
its own inherent force, when it is within the soul of 
the possessor and escapes the eyes of both gods and 
men, no one has ever adequately set forth in poetry 
or prose — the proof that the one is the greatest of all 
evils that the soul contains within itself, while justice 
is the greatest good. For if you had all spoken in 
this way from the beginning and from our youth up 



VTTO TTavTCov vfjLoJv Kai €K v4iov rjfids eTTetOere, ovk 
av dXXrjXovs e^vXarTOjxev [xtj dSiKelv, dAA' avros 
aVTOV rjv eKaarog dpiaros (f)vXa^, SeStcb? /xt) dSiKcov 
Ta> fieyiGTW KaKO) ^vvolkos fj. ravra, c5 Soj- 
KpaTes, tacos Be /cat ert TOVTotv ttAcio) Qpaavfxaxos 
re /cat aAAo? ttov tls vrrep SiKaioavinjs re /cat 
dSt/cia? Xeyoiev dv, pi€Taarp€(f)Ovres avrolv rrjv 
BvvafiLV, (f)opT(,KCi>s, (x)S ye fiot So/cet* dAA' eyo), 

B ovBev yap ae 8eo/xai dTTOKpuTTTecrdat, aov eTndvp.a)V 
aKovaat ravavria, ws BvvafiaL jxaXiaTa Karareivas 
Xeyo). fjLTj ovv r^plv fxovov euBet^rj r<2) Xoyco, on 
hiKaioavvrj dSt/ctaj Kpelrrov, dXXd ri TTOtovaa 
CKarepa rov e^ovra avrrj 8i' avrrjv 7] fiev KaKov, 
7] he dyadov eart,' rds Be Bo^ag d(^aipei, oioirep 
VXavKUiv BieKeXevaaro. el yap fxrj dtpaip-qaeig 
eKarepojdev rag dXr^Oeis, rag Be ipevBels TrpoadiqaeLs, 
oi) TO BiKaiov (f)t^aoiJLev erraivelv ae, dXXd to BoKelv, 

C ovBe TO dBiKov elvai, ifieyeLV, dXXd to BoKeiv, /cat 
■napaKeXeveaOai dBiKov ovra Xavddvetv, Kal opuo- 
XoyeZv Qpa<TviJ.d)(a), OTt, to fiev BiKaiov dXXorpiov 
dyadov, ^vpL(f)epov tov KpeiTTOvos, to Be oBlkov 
avTO) p.ev ^vficjiepov Kal XvcrireXovv, rco Be rjTTOVL 
d^vix<^opov. eTreiBr] ovv d)iioX6yqaas tcov fxeyLOTajv 
dyadwv etvai BiKacoavvqv, d tcov re dTTO^aLvovTCov 
dn* avTOJv eveKa d^ca KeKTrjadai, ttoXv Be jxaXXov 
avrd avTCov, olov dpav, dKoveiv, (jypovelv, /cat 

D vyiaiveiv Bri, /cat oai* dXXa dyaOd yovifxa ttj av- 
TCJbv (f)V(jei dAA' ov Bo^jj eari, tout' ovv avTO 
€7Talveaov BiKaioavvrjg, o avTT] St avr-qv rov 

<• Cf. supra 363 e. " Cf. supra 343 c. 

• Adam's note on ydvtfxa : i.q. yvTiaia is, I think, wrong. 



had sought to convince us, we should not now be 
guarding against one another's injustice, but each 
would be his own best guardian, for fear lest by 
working injustice he should dwell in communion 
with the greatest of evils." This, Socrates, and 
perhaps even more than this, Thras}'Tnachus and 
haply another might say in pleas for and against 
justice and injustice, inverting their true potencies, 
as I beheve, grossly. But I — for I have no reason 
to hide anything from you — am lapng myself out to 
the utmost on the theory, because I wish to hear 
its refutation from you. Do not merely show us by 
argument that justice is superior to injustice, but 
make clear to us what each in and of itself does to 
its possessor, whereby the one is e\il and the other 
good. Biit do away with the repute of both, as 
Glaucon urged. For, unless you take away from 
either the true repute and attach to each the false, 
we shall say that it is not justice that you are praising 
but the semblance, nor injustice that you censure, 
but the seeming, and that you really are exhorting 
us to be unjust but conceal it, and that you are at 
one with ThrasjTiiachus in the opinion that justice 
is the other man's good,*" the advantage of the 
stronger, and that injustice is advantageous and 
profitable to oneself but disadvantageous to the 
inferior. Since, then, you have admitted that 
justice belongs to the class of those highest goods 
which are desirable both for their consequences and 
still more for their own sake, as sight, hearing, 
intelligence, yes and health too, and all other goods 
that are productive " by their very nature and not by 
opinion, this is what I would have you praise about 
justice — the benefit which it and the harm which 



e^ovTa ovLvqcTC Kat dSiKia ^XaTrrei' fxiadovg 8e 
/cai Sd^aj Trapes a'AAots' iTraivelv. <x)s iyo) ru)v 
fxev aXXcvv dvacr)(OLfi,rjv dv ovrcos iTTatvovvrcov 
SiKatoavvrjv Kal ipeyovTcov dSiKLav, Sofa? re irepl 
avTcbv Kat fxicrdovg iyKco/jiia^ovrcov Kal XoiSopovv- 
roWy GOV Se ovk dv, el [jltj av KeXeuoig, Slotl 
E TTavra tov ^iov ovhkv aAAo gkottcov hieX-qAvOas t) 

TOVTO. pLTj OVV T^flLV evSei^Tj flOVOV TO) XoyCp , OTL 

SiKaioavvT] dSiKtas Kpelrrov, dAAa /cat ri TTOiovaa 
CKarepa tov exovra avrrj 8t' auTT^v, edv re XavOdvrj 
eav re jxr) deovs re Kal dvdpwTTOvs, r) fiev dyadov, 
rj Se KaKov eanv. 

X. Kai iydi dKovaas del ptev St] rrjv <j>vaLV rov 
re VXavKcovos Kal rov ^ASetpidvrov rjydpLrjv, drdp 
368 OVV Kat, rore Ttdw ye rjaO-qv Kal elirov Ov KaKcos 
et? vpidg, CO Tralhes eKeivov rov dvhpos, rrjv dpx^v 
rdjv eXeyeicov eiroL-qcrev 6 TXavKcovog epaarrjs, 
evSoKtpi-qaavras irepl rrjv Meyapol /ia;^r/v, eiTTCov 

TTtttSes ^ApLGTOjvos, KXeLvov deZov yevos dvBpog. 

rovro pioi, c5 ^I'Aot, ev hoKel €X^t,v' Trdvv yap delov 
ireTTovdare, el pb-q TreTreiade dhiKiav SiKaioauvrjs 
apiecvov etvat, ovra> Svvdpievoi elTrelv vrrep avrov. 
B 8oKeire h-q p,oc d)S dXrjdcos ov TreTreladai. reK- 
pLaipopiai he eK rod dXXov rov vpieripov rpovov, 

" Cf. infra 506 c. 

* Cf. my note in Class. Phil. 1917, vol. xii. p. 436. It does 
not refer to Thrasymachus facetiously as Adam fancies, but 
is an honorific expression borrowed from the Pythagoreans. 

' Possibly Critias, 

■* Probably the battle of 409 B.C., reported in Diodor. Sic. 
xiii. 65. Cf. Introd. p. viii. 

* The implied pun on the name is made explicit in 580 c-D. 


injustice inherently works upon its possessor. But 
tlie rewards and the honours that depend on opinion, 
leave to others to praise. For while I would listen 
to others who thus commended justice and dis- 
paraged injustice, besto\\'ing their praise and their 
blame on the reputation and the rewards of either, 
I could not accept that sort of thing from you unless 
you say I must, because you have passed your entire 
hfe ^ in the consideration of this very matter. Do 
not, then, I repeat, merely prove to us in argument 
the superiority of justice to injustice, but show us 
what it is that each inherently does to its possessor 
— whether he does or does not escape the eyes of 
gods and men — whereby the one is good and the 
other e\il." 

X. While I had always admired the natural parts of 
Glaucon and Adeimantus, I was especially pleased by 
their words on this occasion, and said: "It was ex- 
cellently spoken of you, sons of the man we know,* 
in the beginning of the elegy which the admirer '^ of 
Glaucon wTote when you distinguished yourselves in 
the battle of Megara •* — 

Sons of Ariston,' whose race from a glorious sire is 

This, my friends, I think, was well said. For there 
must indeed be a touch of the god-like in your dis- 
position if you are not convinced that injustice is 
preferable to justice though you can plead its case 
in such fashion. And I beUeve that you are really 
not convinced. I infer this from your general char- 
Some have held that Glaucon and Adeimantus were uncles 
of Plato, but Zeller decides for the usual view that they were 
his brothers. Cf. Ph. d. Gr. ii. 1, 4th ed. 1889, p. 392, and 
Abhandl. d. Berl. Akad., 1873, Hlst.-Phil. Kl. pp. 86 ff. 

VOL. I L 145 


eVei Kara ye avrovs tovs Xoyovs "qTrlarovv av 
v/jllv oaco Be fiaXXov TTtaTevo), roaovTco fxaXXov 
aTTopco 6 Ti -)(piqaa)jiaf ovre yap ottco? ^oiqOa) e;^co* 
BoKO) yap [XOL dSuvaros elvai- cn^/Ltetov Se fiOL, on. 
a TTpog Q paavfiaxov Xeycov u)p.rjv aTio^atvetv, d)S 
dfieivov hiKaLoavvT] dSt/ctas", ovk drreSe^aade jxov 
OVT av OTTOJS piy] ^orjd-^aoj ep^Of SeSoi/ca yap, firj 

C ov8* OCTLOV 7) TrapayevojJLevov hiKaioavvr] KaKrjyopov- 
p-evrj anayopeveLV /cat jxtj ^oiqdeiv en epurveovra 
Kal Svvdfxevov <j)deyyea6aL. Kpdncrrov ovv ovtojs 
oTTCos Swa/xat emKovpelv aurfj. 6 re ovv TXavKcjv 
Kal ol aXXoL eheovTO Travrl rpoTrcp ^orjdrjaai Kal 
firj aveivaL rov Xoyov, dXXd hiepewTqaaaQaL n re 
eoTLv eKdrepov Kal Trepl rrjs co^eAeta? avTolv 
rdX-rjOes rrorepcDS exet. eLTTOV ovv onep efiol eSo^ev, 
on To ^-qTTjiJLa a> eTTixetpovfiev ov (f)avXov dAA' 

D o^v pXenovTos, (VS ep.ol ^aiverai. e-neihri ovv 
Tjnels ov SetvoL, SoKel fxoL, -^v 8' eyo), roLavrrjv 
TTOLTiaaadai t^rjrrjaiv avrov, otavrrep dv el irpoaera^e 
ns ypafx/xara apuKpd Troppojdev dvayviovai firj 
TTavv o^v ^XeTTOvaiv , eTreird ns evevoiqaev , on rd 
avrd ypdfxixara ean ttov Kal dXXodi pieil^co re koX 
ev fJLet^ovL, epfiaiov dv e(f>dvr], ot/xai, eKeZva 
irpcbrov dvayvovras ovrcos emaKOTTelv rd eXdrTW, 
el rd avrd ovra rvyxdvei. Haw fiev ovv, e^r) 6 

E 'ASeifiavTos' dXXd tL tolovtov, to HwKpares, ev 
rfj Trepl to hiKaiov ^■qT'^aei Ka6opq.g; 'Eyco aot, 
e(f)7]v, epw. SiKaioavvq, ^a/^eV, ean jiev dvBpos 
evos, ean. 8e ttov Kal dXr]g TToXeixts; Yldvv ye, rj 
8' OS. OvKovv /xet^ov TToXis evos dvSpos; Met^oi', 

« So Aristot. Eth. Nic. i. 2. 8 (1094 b 10). 


acter, since from your words alone I should have 
distrusted you. But the more I trust you the more 
I am at a loss what to make of the matter. I do 
not know how I can come to the rescue. For I 
doubt my abiUty for the reason that you have not 
accepted the arguments whereby I thought I proved 
against Thrasymachus that justice is better than in- 
justice. Nor yet again do I know how I can refuse 
to come to the rescue. For I fear lest it be actually 
impious to stand idly by when justice is resiled and 
be "famt^heaTted "and cot defend her so long as one 
has breath and can utter his voice. The best thing, 
then, is to aid her as best I can." Glaucon, then, and 
the rest besought me by all means to come to the 
rescue and not to drop the argument but to pursue 
to the end the investigation as to the nature of 
each and the truth about their respective advantages. 
I said then as I thought : " The inquiry we are 
undertaking is no easy one but calls for keen \ision, 
as it seems to me. So, since we are not clever 
persons, I think we should employ the method of 
search that we should use if we, with not very keen 
vision,~^ere- bidden to read small letters from a 
distance, and then someone had observed that these 
same letters exist elsewhere larger and on a larger 
surface. We should have accounted it a godsend, I 
fancy, to be allowed to read those letters first, and 
then examine the smaller, if they are the same." 
" Quite so," said Adeimantus ; *' but what analogy to 
this do you detect in the inquiry about justice ? " 
" I will tell you," I said : " there is a justice of one 
man, we say, and, I suppose, also of an entire city?" 
" Assuredly," said he. " Is not the city larger " than 
the man ? " " It is larger," he said. " Then, per- 



ecf>r). "lacos Toivvv irXeioiv av StKaioavvr) iv rco 
[xeL^ovi eveirj kol pacjv KarafxaOelv. el ovv 
369 ^ovXeade, Trpcbrov iv rat? TToXeai ^rjT'^crcoiJiev 
TTolov TL iuTLv eTTCtTa ovTCos eTTta/cei/faJ/xe^a /cat 
€V evt eKaaro), ttjv tov fjiei^ovos ofjioiorrjra iv rfj 
Tov iXdrrovog tSea imaKOTTOVvres . 'AAAa /toi 
So/cet?, €(f>rj, KaXaJg Xeyeiv. ^Ap^ ovv, -qv 8' iyco, 
€L yiyvofxivriv ttoXlv deaaatp^eda Xoyo), /cat Tr)V 
SiKaioavvr^v avrijs 'iboLp,€v av yLyvop,€vrjv /cat Tqv 
aSt/ctav; Ta;i^' av, rj 8' os. Ovkovv yevopiivov 
avTOv iXirlg evTreriarepov tSetv o t,r]rovp.€v; 
B rioAu ye. Ao/c€t ovv xp'^^o-i- e77t;^etp7jcrat Trepalveiv ; 
oipuai pbkv yap ovk oXiyov epyov avro elvac 
GKOTTeZre ovv. "Ecr/ceTTTat, e^ry d ASelpiavTOS' 
dXXa p,7j dXXcos TTOiei. 

XI. Tlyverai roivvv, tJv 8' eyco, ttoAis', ojs 
iyippLaL, iTreihy] rvyxdveL rjpLcJov eKaaros ovk 
avTapKrjg, dXXd ttoXXcov ivSe-qg' iq tlv* otet ap)(r]V 
dXXT]v ttoXlv OLKLl,eiv; OvSepLLav, i) 8' 6s. Ovtco 
C Sr] dpa TTapaXapL^dvcov aAAo? aAAov in* dXXov, 
TOV 8' ctt' aAAou xP^^^^t TToXXdJv 8e6p,evot, ttoXXovs 
els piiav olkt^civ dyeipavres kolvcovovs re Kal 
^oTjdovs, ravTTj rfj ^vvotKia idepLeda ttoXlv ovop,a. 
rj ydp; Yidvv p.ev ovv. MeTa8tS6DCTt hrj dXXos 
dXXo), et Tt pLerahihcoaiv , rj pLeraXapL^dvei , OLop,evos 
avTcp dpieivov elvai. Ildvv ye. "16l Si], -qv 8' 
iyw, Tip Xoyo) i^ ^PXV^ 7Tot(bp,ev noXcv. TTOi-qaei 

" Lit., coming into being. Cf. Introd. p. xiv. So Aristot. 
Pol. i. 1 , but iv. 4 he criticizes Plato. 

^ " C'est tout reflechi." 

" Often imitated, as e.g. Hooker, Eccles. Pol. i. 10 : 
*' Forasmuch as we are not by ourselves sufficient to furnish 


haps, there would be more justice in the larger 
object and more easy to apprehend. If it please you, 
then, let us first look for its quahty in states, and 
then only examine it also in the individual, looking 
for the likeness of the greater in the form of the 
less." " I think that is a good suggestion," he said. 
" If, then," said I, " our argument should observe 
the origin " of a state, we should see also the origin 
of justice and injustice in it ? " " It may be," said 
he. " And if this is done, we may expect to find 
more easily what we are seeking ? " " Much more." 
" Shall we try it, then, and go through with it ? I 
fancy it is no slight task. Reflect, then." " We have 
reflected,* " said Adeimantus ; " proceed and don't 

XI. "The origin of the city, then," said I, "in my 
opinion, is to be found in the fact that we do not 
severally suflice for our own needs,*^ but each of us 
lacks many things. Do you think any other prin- 
ciple establishes the state ? " " No other," said he. 
" As a result of this, then, one man calling in another 
for one service and another for another, we, being 
in need of many things, gather many into one place 
of abode as associates and helpers, and to this 
dwelling together we give the name city or state, 
do we not .'' " " By all means." " And between one 
man and another there is an interchange of giving, if 
it so happens, and taking, because each supposes this 
to be better for himself." " Certainly." " Come, 
then, let us create a city from the beginning, in our 

ourselves with a competent store of things needful for such a 
life as our nature doth desire . . . therefore to supply these 
defects ... we are naturally inclined to seek communion 
and fellowship with others ; this was the cause of men uniting 
themselves at first in civil societies." 



D ov; AAAct fxr^v Trpcor-q ye /cat fieyLcrrr] roJv p^peicDt' 
T] TTJs Tpo<f)rjs rrapaoKevrj rod elvai re Kal t,fjv 
€V€Ka. HavraTTaai. ye. Aevrepa Srj oLK-qaecos, 
rpiTTj Se iadijros Kal rcbv tolovtcov. "Eart ravra. 
Oepe St^, -^v S' iyo), ttcos tj ttoXis apKeaet, irrl 
Toaavrr]v TrapaaKevrjv ; aXXo t6 yeojpyog fiev ets, 
6 8e OLKoSofios, aXXos 8e' tls ix/xivrr]?; 7} /cat 
aKVTOTopLOV avToae Trpoad-qaofiev rj tiv* aX\ov 
rcbv Trept ro acofjia depairevTiqv ; \iavv ye. Etry 
8 av * q ye dvayKaiordrr] ttoXls e'/c reTrdpojv rj 

E rrevre dvSpcov. (I>atVeTat. Tt 817 ow; eVa e/ca- 
aroi^ TovTiov Set to ayrou epyov aTraat koivov 
Kararidevai, olov rov yecopyov eva ovra napa- 
OKevdl^eiv <jLria rerrapai /cat TerpanXdcnov xpdvov 
re /cat ttovov dvaXioKeiv errl oirov TrapaaKevfj, /cat 
dWoLs KoivcoveZv; -q d/xeX-qaavra eavraj fxovov 
370 reraprov [xepog TTOieZv rovrov rov airov ev rerdprcp 
fiepeL rov xpovov, rd 8e rpta, ro p.ev €7tI rfj rrjs 
OLKias TrapaaKevfj hiarpi^eiv, ro 8e Ip-arlov, ro 
8e vTToSrjiJidrcov, Kal fir) dXXois Koivoivovvra 
TrpdyjJLara ^X^^^> ^'^ avrov 8t' avrov rd avrov 
TTpdrreiv; Kal 6 *A8etyu.avT0? ecjirj 'AAA' tcrcDS', 
c3 HcoKpares, ovrco paov r) 'Ketvcog. OuSeV, rju 
8' eyo), /Jid At droTTOv. evvod) ydp Kal avros 
elrrovros aov, on rrpdJrov fiev (f)verat, eKaaros ov 

B ndvv dfjioios e'/cao-TOj, aAAci 8ta0ep6uv rrjv (f>vaLv, 
dXXog €77 dXXov epyov rrpd^LV. rj ov 80/cet aoi; 

" Aristotle says that the city comes into being for the sake 
of life, but exists for the sake of the good life, which, of 
course, is also Plato's view of the true raison d'etre of the 
State. Cf. Laws 828 d and Crito 48 b. 

*■ It is characteristic of Plato's drama of ideas to give this 


theory. Its real creator, as it appears, will be our 
needs." "Obviously." " Now the first and chief of 
our needs is the provision of food for existence and 
life."" "Assuredly." " The second is housing and 
the third is raiment and that sort of thing." " That 
is so." " Tell me, then," said I, " how our city will 
suffice for the provision of all these things. Will 
there not be a farmer for one, and a builder, and 
then again a weaver ? And shall we add thereto a 
cobbler and some other purveyor for the needs of 
the body ? " " Certainly." " The indispensable 
minimum of a city, then, would consist of ibur or 
five men." " Apparently." " What of this, then ? 
Shall each of these contribute his work for the 
common use of all ? I mean shall the farmer, who 
is one, provide food for four and spend fourfold time 
and toil on the production of food and share it with 
the others, or shall he take no thought for them and 
provide a fourth portion of the food for himself alone 
in a quarter of the time and employ the other three- 
quarters, the one in the provision of a house, the 
other of a garment, the other of shoes, and not have 
the bother of associating vrith other people, but, 
himself for himself, mind his o\\ti affairs } " ^ And 
Adeimantus said, " But, perhaps, Socrates, the former 
way is easier." " It would not, by Zeus, be at all 
strange," said I ; " for now that you have mentioned 
it, it occurs to me myself that, to begin ^vith, our 
several natures are not all alike but different. One 
man is naturally fitted for one task, and another for 

kind of rhetorical advantage to the expression of the view 
that he intends to reject. In what follows Plato anticipates 
the advantages of the division of labour as set forth in Adam 
Smith, with the characteristic exception of its stimulus to 
new inventions. Cf. Introd. xv. 



"E/Ltotye. Tt Se; rrorepov kolXXiov Trpdrroi av 
rig els cov rroXXas Te^vas ipyal,6fi€vos, rj orav 
/Litav' ety; Urav, r] d 09, ei? /iiav. AAAa /xtjv, 
oi/xai, /cai ToSe S77A0V, cu?, eai' ti? tij/o? Trapiy 
epyov Kaipov, SioXXvrai. ArjXov yap. Ov yap, 
oljJLai, ideXei ro TTparropievov ttjv rov Trpdrrovros 
a)(oXrjv TTeptfieveiv, dXX' dvdyKrj rov Trpdrrovra 

C ra> TTpaTTopceva) erraKoXovOelv fxri iv napepyov 
fiepei. 'AvdyKT). 'E/c §17 rovrcvv irXeioi re eKacrra 
yiyverai /cat KdXXiov Kal paov, orav els ev Kara 
(f>vaiv /cat iv Kaipa>, axoXrjv ribv dXXojv dyoiv, 
TTpdrrrj. p-kv ovv. WXeiovcov hrj, tS 
'ASetjuavre, Set ttoXltiJjv -^ rerrdpiov eVt rds 
■napaoKevdg wv eXeyop,ev 6 yap yecopyos, d)S eoiKev, 
ovK avros TTOiiqcrerai eavrco ro dporpov, el pLeXXei 

P KaXov elvai, ovSe (Tp,Linjrjv ovSe rdXXa opyava oaa 
V^pl yewpyiav owS' av 6 olkoSojjlos- ttoXXcov Se 
Kttt rovrcp Set" (Laavrcos S' o V(f)dvr7]s re /cat o 
aKvror6p.os. ^AX7]drj. TeKroves Srj Kal ;^aA/C7y9 
/cat roiovroL rives ttoXXol hrjpiovpyol, kolvcovoI 
"fjpuv rod ttoXlxvlov yiyvop^evoi, avxvov avro 

TTOlOVaiV. UdvV p,€V ovv. 'AAA' OVK dv TTO) 

Ttdw ye peya ri etrj, 01)8'' et avrols ^ovkoXovs 
re Kal iroip-evas rovs re dXXovs vopeas rrpoadelpev, 
E tva OL re yewpyol em ro dpovv e^oiev ^ovs, ol 
re oIkoSoj-col rrpos rds dya)yds perd rdJv yecopywv 
)(pT]a9ai VTTot,vyiOLs, ixfydvrat Se /cat OKvroropLoi 
Se'p/xaCTt re Kal epiois. Ovhe ye, -q 8' os, ap.iKpd 
TToAtj av eirj exovaa irdvra ravra. 'AAAa p-y]v, 
rjv 8' eyoi, /carot/cto-at ye avrrjv rrjv ttoXiv els 
roLOvrov rorrov, ov eTreiaaycxyyipoiv p,r) Se-qaerai, 

^ ov5' add. Hermann: it Is better but not indispensable. 


another. Don't you think so ? " "I do." " A^ain, 
would one man do better working at many tasks or 
one at one ? " " One at one," he said. " And, fur- 
thermore, this, I fancy, is obvious — that if one lets shp 
the right season, the favourable moment in any task, 
the work is spoiled." " Obvious." '" That, I take it, is 
because the business will not wait upon the leisure of 
the workman, but the workman must attend to it as 
his main affair, and not as a by-work." " He must 
indeed." " The result, then, is that more things are 
produced, and better and more easily when one man 
performs one task according to his nature, at the right 
moment, and at leisure from other occupations." " By 
all means." " Then, Adeimantus, we need more than 
four citizens for the provision of the things we have 
mentioned. For the farmer, it appears, will not make 
his ovvTi plough if it is to be a good one, nor his hoe, 
nor his other agricultural implements, nor will the 
builder, who also needs many ; and similarly the weaver 
and cobbler." "True." "Carpenters, then, and smiths 
and many similar craftsmen, associating themselves 
with our hamlet, will enlarge it considerably." " Cer- 
tainly." " Yet it still wouldn't be very large even if 
we should add to them neat-herds and shepherds and 
other herders, so that the farmers might have cattle 
for ploughing," and the builders oxen to use with the 
farmers for transportation, and the weavers and 
cobblers liides and fleeces for their use." " It 
wouldn't be a small city, either, if it had all these." 
" But further," said I, " it is practically impossible 
to estabhsh the city in a region where it will not 

" Butcher's meat and pork appear first in the luxurious 
citj', 373 c. We cannot infer that Plato was a vegetarian. 



a^eBov TL dSvvaTov. ^ASvvarov ydp. Ylpoaherjoei 
dpa eVt Kal dXXcov, ot e^ dXXr]s TToXecos avrfj 
KOfxiaovGLV Sv Selrai. Ae^aet. Kat firjv k€v6s 
dv LT] 6 SiaKovos, jjLTjSev dyoiv a>v CKelvoi, Seovrat, 
371 Trap' J)v dv KoiiLt,o)VTaL a)v dv avrois xp^^^^t kcvos 
dveicnv. rj yap; Ao/cet juot. Act St) rd o'Ikol 
p,rj fxovov iavrois TTOieiv iKavd, dXXd /cat ota /cat 
oaa eKeivois d)v dv Secovrai. Act ydp. UXeiovcov 
St] yeoipyCi)v re /cat tcov dXXcov SrjjjiiovpydJv Set 
rjpXv rfj TToAet. HXeiovcov ydp. Kat Srj Kal rdjv 
dXXo)v ScaKovcov ttov tcov re elaa^ovrcov Kal i^- 
a^6vra>v eKaara' ovroi he elaiv epLiropoi' rj ydp; 
Nat. Kat ifiTTopuyv Srj Berjaofxeda. Hdvu ye. 
Kai idv fiev ye Kara ddXarrav r^ cfXTTopia yLyvrjTai, 

B avxvdJv Kal dXXcov TrpoaSe-qaeTai tcov imaTrjfjLOvcov 
TTJs TTepl TTjV ddXaTTOv ipyaaias. Y^vxvdyv /xeWot. 
XII. Tt Se St^ iv avTjj ttj 77oAet; ttcos dXXijXoLS 
p,€Ta8co(TovcrLV Sv dv cKaaTOL ipydl,ci}VTai ; cLv 
8rj eVe/ca /cat KoivcMviav TTOiriadpLevoi ttoXlv cpKtaa- 
fxev. ArjXov Si^, ■^ 8' os, otl ttcoXovvtcs Kal 
(LvovfxevoL. ^Ayopd Srj rjpLV Kal v6pnap.a ^u/x- 
^oXov Trjs aAAay^j eVe/ca yej^TJcrerat e'/c_ tovtov. 

C Ilavi; pL€v ovv. "^Kv ovv /co/xtaa? o yecopyog els 
TTjv dyopdv Ti cLv TTOtet, ri rt? a'AAos' Tchv Srjfjitovpycov, 
fjirj els Tov avTov XP^^^^ V'^V T'ots' Seo/ieVots Ta 
Trap* avTOV dXXd^aodai, dpyiqaei ttjs avTov 
hripuiovpyias KaOijp^evos ev dyopd; OvSap^cbg, ■^ 
S' OS, dAA' etCTtP" ot TOVTO opdJvTes eavTovs eirl 
TTjv SiaKoviav TaTTOvai TavTrjv, iv p,ev Tois 
opddJs oiKovpievaLs rroXecrL ax^Sov ti oi dadeve- 

" Aristotle adds that the medium of exchange must of 
itself have value {Pol. 1257 a 36). 



need imports." " It is." " There will be a further 
need, then, of those who will bring in from some other 
city what it requires." " There will." " And again, 
if our ser\itor goes forth empty-handed, not taking 
with him any of the things needed by those from 
whom they procure what they themselves require, 
he will come back \vith empty hands, will he not ? " 
" I think so." " Then their home production must 
not merely suffice for themselves but in quality and 
quantity meet the needs of those of whom they have 
need." " It must." So our city will require more 
farmers and other craftsmen." " Yes, more." " And 
also of other ministrants who are to export and import 
the merchandise. These are traders, are they not ? " 
" Yes." " We shall also need traders, then." 
" Assuredly." " And if the trading is carried on by 
sea, we shall need quite a number of others who are 
expert in maritime business." " Quite a number." 

XII. "But again, within the city itself how will they 
share with one another the products of their labour ? 
This was the very purpose of our association and 
estabhshment of a state." " Obviously," he said, 
" by buying and selling." " A market-place, then, 
and money as a token " for the purpose of exchange 
will be the result of this." " By all means." " If, 
then, the farmer or any other craftsman taking his 
products to the market-place does not arrive at the 
same time with those who desire to exchange with 
him, is he to sit idle in the market-place and lose 
time from his own work ? " " By no means," he said, 
" but there are men who see this need and appoint 
themselves for this service — in well-conducted cities 
they are generally those who are weakest ^ in body 

* Similarly Laws 918-920. 



araroL to, CTco/xara /cat dxp^toC tl aAAo epyov 
TTparreiv. avrov yap Set fxevovrag avrovs Trepl 
D Ty]v dyopav ra [xev dvr apyvptou dXXd^aadaL rots' 
Tt Seo/jLCVOLS a7To8oa9ai, rots Se dvrl av dpyvpiov 
StaAAarreit', ocrot tl Seovrat Trpiaadai. Avtt] 
dpa, rjv 8' iyo), rj XP^^^ Kam^Xcov rjyuv yiveaiv 
ifMTTOiet TTJ TToAet. ■^ ov KaTT-qXovs KaXovfxev TOVS 
TTpos (hv^v T€ /cat TTpdauv BtaKovovvras ISpVfxevovs 
iv dyopa, rovg Se TrAat^ra? CTrt rds TroAet? 
ifjLTTopovs ; Ildvu fxev ovv. "Ert 817 rtves, (hs 
€yd), eicn Kat aAAot 8ta/covot, ot dv rd [xev rrjs 
E ScavoLas fJi'q Trdvv d^toKotvdovrjroc wat,, ttjv 8e 
rov Gwixaros taxvv iKavrjv ctti tovs ttovovs exoiaiv 
ot S-q vcoXovvres ttjv ttjs: laxvos xP^'-^^> '''V^ 
rLp,r)v ravTTjv /jbicrdov KaXouvres, /ce/cAi^vrat, d)s 
iycajxaL, paaQcorot,' rj yap; Udvv /xcv ovv. IIAr^- 
pcofia Srj TToXed)^ eLOLV, d)S eot/ce, /cat jJnadcoroL. 
Ao/cet fxoL. 'Ap' ovv, CO Aheijxavre, TJSrj 'qfxlv 
rjv^rjrai, rj ttoXis, ojgt etvai reXea; "locos. Hov 
ovv dv 7TOT€ iv avTjj elrj rj re St/catocrun^ /cat rj 
dSiKia; Kttt TtVi dp,a eyyevojievr] cLv icTKefifieda; 
372 'Eyco fiev, €(f)r), ovk ivvodj, c3 Sco/cpare?, et fJLt^ 
TTOV iv avrcvv tovtcxjv XP^'-^ ''"'■^^ ''"fj '^P'^S dXXr^Xovs. 
'AAA' 'iacos, rjv 8' iyco, KaXcos Xiyeis' /cat oKeTTreov 
ye /cat ouk arroKvrjriov. rrpwrov ovv aKeipcLfxeda, 
Tiva rpoTTOv SiaiTTJaovrai ol ovrcx) rrapeoKevacrpiivoL. 
dXXo TL -q alrov re rroLovvres /cat otvov /cat lp,dria 
/cat VTroS'ijixara, /cat olKoSo/Jt-ricrdpievoi oiKias, 
depovs jJiev rd rroXXd yv/xvoi re /cat dvvTToSrjroi 
ipydoovrai, rod he x^'-P^djvos rip.^Leap.evoi re /cat 

" Aristotle {Pol. 1354 b 18) says that those, the use of whose 
bodies is the best thing they have to offer, are by nature 


aiid those who are useless for any other task. They 
must wait there in the agora and exchange mc^ey 
tor goods A^-ith those who wisli to sell, and gooris for 
money ynih as many as desire to buy." " This 
need, then," said I, " creates the class of shopke epers 
in our city. Or is not shopkeepers the namo we 
give to those w'ho, planted in the agora, serve us- 
in buying and selling, while we call those who 
roam from city to city merchants ? " " Certainly." 
" And there are, furthermore, I believe, other 
servitors who in the things of the mind are not 
altogether worthy of our fellowship, but whose 
strength of body is sufficient for toil ; so they, selUng 
the use of this strength and calling the price wages, 
are designated, I believe, wage-earners, are they 
not?" "Certainly." " Wage-earners, then, it seems, 
are the complement that helps to fill up the state."" 
" I think so." " Has our city, then, Adeimantus, 
reached its full growth and is it complete ? " 
" Perhaps." " Where, then, can justice and injustice 
be found in it ? And along with which of the con- 
stituents that we have considered does it come into 
the state ? " "I cannot conceive, Socrates," he 
said, " unless it be in some need that those very 
constituents have of one another." " Perhaps that 
is a good suggestion," said I ; "we must examine 
it and not hold back. First of all, then, let us 
consider what will be the manner of life of men thus 
provided. Will they not make bread and wine and 
garments and shoes ? And they \\'ill build themselves 
houses and carry on their work in summer for the 
most part unclad and unshod and in ^\inter clothed 
slaves. Cf. Jesus of Sirach xxxviii. 36 avtv avrQv ovk 
oiKiadriTeTai 7r6Xt?. So Carlyle, and Shakespeare on Caliban : 
"We cannot miss him " {Tempest, i. ii.) 



B VTTohehe^iivoL LKavoJs; OpiifsovTai Se e/c f.L€V tCiv 
Kpldfiv aX(f)tTa aKeval,6iievoL, ck 8e riJbv TTvpwv 
aXevpfl, TO. p-kv Trei/javre?, ra 8e p.a^avr€s, fMal^as 
yevvai'-o-S Kal dprovg eVt Ka\ap.6v riva Trapa- 
^aXXSfJi^voi -^ (f)vXXa Kadapd, KaraKXivevres ctti 
aT'~p(iSa)v iarpcoixevoiv pLiXaKc re /cat fxvppLvais, 
evojxf]<^ovTaL avroi re Kai rd TxatSta, eTrnnvovTe^ 
rov oLVov, eaTe(f>avcoijLevoL Kal vpLVovvres tovs 
deovs, "qSecog ^vvovres aAAT^Aoi?, ovx vrrkp rr]v 

C ovaiav TToiovpievoi rovs TToiSas, evXa^ovp.evoi. 
Treviav tj TToXep-ov; 

XIII. Kat o VXavKOiv inroXa^cov, "Avev oifsov, 
€(f>r], d)S eoiKag, notels rovs dvSpag eaTLajp.evovg. 
AXrjdrj, rjv 8' iyd), Xeyeis. eTreXadopuqv on Kal 
oipov e^ovoLv dXas re St^Aoj^ on Kal e'Aaa? /cat 
rvpov Kal ^oX^ovg /cat Xd)(ava, ota Srj iv dypotg 
eifjrjp^ara, eip-qaovraL' Kal rpay-qp-ard ttov rrapa- 
dtjaofxev avTols rcov re q-vkcov Kal ipe^ivdcov Kal 

D Kvdp,cov, Kal p.vpra /cat (f>r]yovs ctttoSioucti tt/do? to 
TTvp, p.€Tpi(jos VTTOTTLvovreg- Kal ovTco Si,dyovTes 
Tov ^Lov iv elpy^vr) pierd vyieiag, wg elKog, yrjpaiol 
reXevrdJvres dXXov tolovtov ^lov toi? eKyovoig 
TTapaScoaovaiv. Kal os, Et 8e vcov ttoXiv, co Jlco- 
K pares, ^^^, KareoKevat^es, ri dv avrds dXXo rj 
ravra exopral,eg ; 'AAAa tto)? XPV> V^ ^' ^y^> ^ 
TXavKCov; "Anep vop-H^erai, €<^rf eVt re kXlvwv 
KaraKeladai, ot/xat, rovg pueXXovras p.-?) raXanTUi- 

E peladaiy Kal aTro rpane^ajv SetTTvelv Kal oipa drrep 
Kal ol vvv exovai Kal rpayrjpLara. Etev, rjV 8' 

" 6\j/ov is anj-thing eaten with bread, usually meat or fish, 
as Glaucon means ; but Socrates gives it a different sense. 
'' Cf. Introd. p. xiv. By the mouth of the fine gentleman, 



id shod sufficiently ? And for their nourishment 
they 'v^ill provide h^eal from their barley and flour 
from their wheat, abd kneading and cooking these 
they \\ill serve noble cakes and loaves on some 
arrangement of reed?^ or clean leaves, and, rechned 
on rustic beds strewii -with bryony and myrtle, they 
vri\\ feast with their children, drinking of their wine 
thereto, garlanded ar,(l singing hymn? to the gods in 
pleasant fellowship, no^ '-'-orpttinjr offspring beyond 
their means lest they fall into poverty or war ? " 

XIII. Here Glaucon broke in: " No relishes " appar- 
ently,"he said, " forthe men you describe asfeasting." 
" True," said I ; " I forgot that they will also have 
relishes — salt, of course, and olives and cheese ; and 
onions and greens, the sort of things they boil in 
the countr}', they will boil up together. But for 
dessert we ^^^ll serve them figs and chickpeas and 
beans, and they will toast myrtle-berries and acorns 
before the fire, washing them do>\'n A\ith moderate 
potations ; and so, living in peace and health, they 
wll probably die in old age and hand on a hke life to 
their offspring." And he said, " If you were founding 
a city of pigs,* Socrates, what other fodder than this 
would you provide .'' " " Why, what would you have, 
Glaucon ? " said I, " What is customary," he rephed; 
" they must rechne on couches, I presume, if they are 
not to be uncomfortable, and dine from tables and 
have made dishes and sweetmeats such as are now 

Glaucon, Plato expresses with humorous exaggeration his 
own recognition of the inadequacy for ethical and social 
philosophy of his idyllic ideal. Cf. Mandeville, Preface to 
Fable of the Bees : 

A golden age must be as free 
For acorns as for honesty. 



eyu), fxavddvco- ov ttoXiv, cos ^olk€, OKOTToufjiev 
fxovov OTTOis ylyverai, aXXa Kf^l Tpv(f)coaav ttoXlv. 
icrws ovp ovSe Aca/cajj c;\;ei- crKOTrovvres yap /cat 
TOLavT7]v Tax* ^^ KarihoLfxev t"'^v t€ SiKaioavvrjv 
Kat, aSiKLav otttj ttotc rals Trv'^Aecrii/ ificfjuovraL. r) 
fX€v ovv aXvidiVT] ttoXls So','^€t /ACH et^at rjv 8t- 
eXrjXvda[jL€v, J>aTnsp vyi-qs ris ' ei S' av ^ovXeade 
Kai (jjXeyjjiaLVOvcTov 7T6X^\,^<.ajp'qa(jt)fi€v, ovbeu drro- 
373 KcoXvei. ravra yap Sij riaiv, a)s So/cet, ouk i^- 
apKeaei, ov8 avr-q rj hiaira, dXXd KXlvai re irpoa- 
euoprai Kal rpaTve^at Kai TtlAAa OKevrj, Kal oijja 8r) 
/cat fxvpa /cat dvfiLafiaTa /cat eralpai Kal TTefji/jLara, 
e/caCTTa Tovra>v TTavroSaTrd' /cat Stj /cat a to 
TTpcJTOv eXeyofiev ovkctl to. dvayKala OcTeov, 
ot/cta? re /cat t/xarta /cat VTTohrjpLaTa , dXXd Tiqv t€ 
t,ojypa(f>iav Kivi^reov /cat Trjv iroLKLXiav^ Kal ^pvaov 
Kai €X4(f)avTa Kai TrdvTa ra rotaura ktt]T€ov. -^ ydp; 
B Nat, e<j)rj. OvKovv jjiei^ovd t€ av Trjv ttoXiv Set 
TTOieZv; €K€Lvr] ydp 7] vyieivr] ovkctl CKavq, dAA' 
rjSrj oyKov e/XTrAijcrrea /cat rrXT^dovg, a ou/cert tov 
dvayKaiov eveKd iaTLV ev Talg TToXeacv, olov ot re 
drjpevral TrdvTes, ot re fiifi-qrai, ttoXXoI /xev ot Trepl 
ra o'X'^P'Ctrd re Kal ;)(pdj/>taTa, TroAAot 8e ot Trepl 

^ Kai TTiv iroLKiXLav 11 : A omits. 

" On flute-girls as the accompaniment of a banquet cf. 
Symp. 176 e, Aristoph. Ach. 1090-1092, Catullus 13. 4. But 
apart from this, the sudden mention of an incongruous item 
in a list is a device of Aristophanic humour which even the 
philosophic Emerson did not disdain : " The love of little 
maids and berries." 

* TO. dvayKala predicatively, " in the measure prescribed by 



use." " Good," said I, " I understand. It is 
r merely the origin of a city, it seems, that we 
• considering but the origin of a luxurious city, 
rhaps that isn't such a bad suggestion, either. 
r by observation of such a city it may be we could 
v.ii-cem the origin of justice and injustice in states. 
The true state I believe to be the one we have 
described — the healthy state, as it were. But if it 
is your pleasure that we contemplate also a fevered 
state, there is nothing to hinder. For there are 
some, it appears, who will not be contented with 
this sort of fare or ^\'ith this way of life ; but couches 
will have to be added thereto and tables and other 
furniture, yes, and rehshes and mjTrh and incense 
and girls " and cakes — all sorts of all of them. And 
the requirements we first mentioned, houses and 
garments and shoes, will no longer be confined to 
necessities,* but we must set painting to work and 
embroidery, and procure gold and ivory and similar 
adorimients, must we not ? " " Yes," he said. " Then 
shall we not have to enlarge the city again ? For that 
healthy state is no longer sufficient, but we must 
proceed to swell out its bulk and fill it up with a 
multitude of things that exceed the requirements of 
necessity in states, as, for example, the entire class of 
huntsmen, and the imitators,*^ many of them occupied 
with figures and colours and many with music — the 

neccssitj'." Cf. 369 d " the indispensable minimum of a 
city." The historical order is: (1) arts of necessity, (2) arts 
of pleasure and luxurv, (3) disinterested science. Cf. Critiaa 
110 a, Aristot. Met. 981 b 20. 

' dripevrai and /xifi-riTai are generalized Platonic categories, 
including much not ordinarily signified by the words. For 
a list of such Platonic generalizations cf. Unity of Plato's 
Thought, note 500. 

VOL. I M 16 1 


fiovaiKT^v, TTOLTjrai T€ /cat TovTcov VTTTjpeTai, paijj- 
ojSot, VTTOKpnai, ^(opevrai, ipyoXd^oi, oKevoiv re 

C TTavToSaTTOJV SrjfXLovpyoL, tcov re dXXcov Kal tcov 
TTcpl rov yvvaiKeiov Koapiov. Kal Sr) Kal SiaKovojv 
ttXciovcov Serjaop-eOa. rj ov SoKel Sei^aeiv TratS- 
aycoyaJv, tltBcov, rpocfxvv, KopLpbcoTpicov, Kovpemv, 
Kat av oi/joTTOiojv re Kal pLayeipojv ; en 8e /cat 
av^coTcbv TTpoaSerjaopLeda' rovro yap rjpuv iv rfj 
TTporepa TroAet ovk ivrjv eSet yap ovSev iv Se 
Tavrrj Kal tovtov TrpoaSe-^creL, Sei^aec Se /cat tcDp' 
dXXcov Po(TKrjp,dTCOV irapiTToXXcjov , et ns avrd eSerat. 

J) Tj ydp; Yld)s yap ov; Ovkovv Kal larpcov iv 
XpeiaLs ia6p.e0a ttoXv p.dXXov ovrco hiaircLpievoi 'q 
ws TO TTporepov; IToAu ye. 

XIV. Kat T] X^P^ ""^^ ^ Tore iKavrj Tp€(f)eiv tovs 
Tore ap^iKpd Srj i^ LKavrjs ecrraf t] ttojs Xiyop.ev; 
OvTCOs, €<f)r]. Ovkovv rrjs tcov TrX-qoiov x(^po-s rjpuv 
dTTorp^rjreov, et /xeAAo/zei' LKavrjv e^eiv vepueiv re 
icai dpovv, Kal iKelvoig av rrjs rjixcTepas, idv Kal 
iKcZvot d(j)d>aLV avrovs inl XPVP''^'''^^ Krijcnv 

E aTTeipov, V7T€p^dvT€s rov TCOV dvayKaia)v opov; 
WoXXrj dvdyKT], i(j>'i), to HwKpares. UoXep.'qaopiev 

" Contractors generally, and especially theatrical managers. 

* The mothers of the idjllic state nursed their own children, 
but in the ideal state the wives of the guardians are relieved 
of this burden by special provision. Cf. infra 460 d. 



poets and their assistants, rhapsodists, actors, chorus- 
dancers, contractors " — and the manufacturers of all 
kinds of articles, especially those that have to do 
with women's adornment. And so we shall also 
want more servitors. Don't you think that we shall 
need tutors, nurses wet '' and dry, beauty-shop ladies, 
barbers " and yet again cooks and chefs ? And we 
shall have need, further, of s\%ineherds ; there were 
none of these creatures •* in our former city, for we 
had no need of them, but in this city there \vi\\ 
be this further need ; and we shall also require 
other cattle in great numbers if they are to be 
eaten, shall we not ? " " Yes." " Doctors, too, are 
something whose services * we shall be much more 
likely to require if we hve thus than as before ? " 
" Much." 

XIV. " And the territory, I presume, that was then 
sufficient to feed the then population, from being 
adequate will become too small. Is that so or not ? " 
" It is." " Then we shall have to cut out a cantle' 
of our neighbour's land if we are to have enough for 
pasture and ploughing, and they in turn of ours if 
they too abandon themselves to the unlimited ^ acqui- 
sition of wealth, disregarding the limit set by our 
necessary wants." " Ine\itably, Socrates." " We 

' The rhetoricians of the empire liked to repeat that no 
barber was known at Rome in the first 200 or 300 years of 
the city. 

•* Illc^ical idiom referring to the swine. C/. infra 598 c. 

• XP"*'s '■ Greek idiom could use either singular or plural. 
Cf. 410 A ; Phaedo 87 c ; Imws 630 e. The plural here avoids 

' Cf. Isocrates iii. 34. 

' Cf. 591 D. Natural desires are limited. Luxury and 
unnatural forms of wealth are limitless, as the Greek moralists 
repeat from Solon down. Cf. Aristot. Politics 1257 b 23. 



TO fiera tovto, co TXavKcov; t] ttcD? ecrrai; 
OuTCos, ^(l>f]- Kai firjSev ye ttco Xeyojjjiev, rjv 8 
iyd), iirjT* ei ti KaKov fiiJT* el dyadov 6 TToXcfios 
epydt^erai, dAAa Tocrovrov yuovov, on TToXefiov av 
yeveaiv evp-qKa^iev, i^ (Lv fidXicrra rats noXeai /cat 
tSi'a. Kal hrjuoata} /ca/ca yiyverai, orav yiyvriTai. 
riai'D /xev ovv. "Ert 817, cS ^iXe, jxell^ovos rrjg tto- 
374 Aeco? Set ovri afUKpw, dXX' oXo) aTparoirehco, o 
e^eXdov vnep rrjg ovaias aTrdar^s /cat virep (Lv vvv 
Srj eXeyojJLev Sta/xa;^etTat rots' eTTiovaiv. Ti 8e; 
'q 8' OS" auTOt ov;^ LKavoi; Ouk, el av ye, rjv 8' 
iyo), Kal rjp,els drravTes (hiioXoyqcTaiJLev KaXcos, 
rjviKa eTrXdrrofiev rrjv ttoXiv (LjJioXoyovfiev 8e ttov, 
el jxep-vrjaat, dSuvarov eva TToXXds /caAcD? epya- 
^eoOaL Te^vas. ^AXrjdrj Xeyeig, e(f>r]. Tt ovv; "^v 
B 8' iyo)' rj Trepl tov TToXejjiov aycovia ov re^^vLK'q 
SoKeZ elvai; Kal fidXa, €<f)r]. ^H ovv ti, GKVTiKrjs 
Set i^aXXov Kr'jSeadat. rj rroXejjiiKrjs ; OvSafjicog. 
'AAA' dpa TOV p,ev aKVTOT6p,ov hieKOiXvop^ev p,'qTe 

^ Kal idiq. Kai drj/aofflg. 11. 

" The unnecessary desires are the ultimate cause of wars. 
Phaedo GQ c. The simple life once abandoned, war is in- 
evitable. " My lord," said St. Francis to the Bishop of 
Assisi, " if we possessed property we should have need 
of arms for its defence" (Sabatier, p. 81). Similarly that 
very dissimilar thinker, Mandeville. Cf. supra on 372 c. 
Plato recognizes the struggle for existence (Spencer, Data 
of Ethics, § 6), and the " bellum omnium contra omnes," 
Lnws 625 E. Cf. Sidgwick, Method of Ethics, i. 2 : " The 
Republic of Plato seems in many respects sufficiently 
divergent from the reality. And yet he contemplates war as 
a permanent, unalterable fact to be provided for in the ideal 
state." Spencer on the contrary contemplates a completely 



shall go to war" as the next step, Glaucon — or what 
will happen ? " " What you say," he said. " And we 
are not yet to speak," said I, " of any evil or good 
effect of war, but only to affirm that we have further ^ 
discovered the origin of war, namely, from those 
things from which " the greatest disasters, public and 
private, come to states when they come." " Cer- 
tainly." " Then, my friend, we must still further 
enlarge our city by no small increment, but by a 
whole army, that will march forth and fight it out 
with assailants in defence of all our wealth and the 
luxuries we have just described." " How so ? " he 
said ; " are the citizens themselves "* not sufficient for 
that ? " " Not if you," said I, " and we all were 
right in the admission we made when we M-ere 
moulding our city. We surely agreed, if you remem- 
ber, that it is impossible for one man to do the work 
of many arts well." " True," he said. " Well, then," 
said I, " don't you think that the business of fighting 
is an art and a profession ? " " It is indeed," he 
said. " Should our concern be greater, then, for the 
cobbler's art than for the art of war ? " " By no 
means." " Can we suppose,* then, that while we were 

evolved society in which the ethics of militarism will dis- 

* i.e. as well as the genesis of society. 369 b. 

" e^ (Lv : i.e. iK toutwv i^ Sjy, namely the appetites and the 
love of money. 

'' Cf. 567 E TL 54 ; avT60ei>. In the fourth century " it was 
found that amateur soldiers could not compete with pro- 
fessionals, and war became a trade" (Butcher, Demosth. 
p. 17). Plato arrives at the same result by his principle 
" one man one task " (370 a-b). He is not here " making 
citizens synonymous with soldiers " nor " laconizing " as 
Adam saj-s. 

• For the thought of this a fortiori or ex eontrario argument 
ef. 421 A. 



yeojpyov imx^ipelv elvaL ajxa fXTJre V(f)dvTrjv fXT^re 
OLKoSo/xov dXXa aKVTOTOfjiou,^ tva Sr) rjpXv to rrjg 
aKUTiKTJg epyov KaXibs yiyvoiro, kol tcov dXXcov 
evL eKaarco cocravrios ev dTTeSiSofJiev, npo? o 
i7Te(f>vK€t, eKacrros /cat icf)' S e/xeAAe rajv dXXcov 

C axoXrjv dyojv 8ta ^iov avro ipya^ofxevos ov 
TTapieis rovs Kaipovs koXCj'S dTTepydl,eadaL- rd Se 
017 Trepl Tov TToXejxov rrorepov ov nepl TrXeiarov 
eariv ev drrepyaadevTa; rj ovrco paStov, ware 
Kai yecopya)V rts" a/ia TToXejJLLKOs earai Kol 
cfKVTOTOfMOJv Kai dXXrjp Texvqv tjvtivovv ipyal,6- 
fxevos, TTerreuTLKOs Se r) Kv^evriKog tKavd)s owS' 
av eis yevoLTo pi-q avro tovto e/c TraiSos eTnrrj- 
oevojv, dXXd rrapepyo) ;^p66/xep'os"; /cat daviba piev 

J) Xa^cbv rj Ti dXXo rdJv TToXepLiKcov oirXoiv re /cat 
opyauojv avd-qpiepov oTrXtTLKrjs t) tlvos dXXrjs p^d^rfS 
Tcov Kara TroXepiov iKavos earat dya>vi.aTi^s, tcjv 
oe dXXix)v opydvcov ovSev ovSeva SrjpiLovpyov ov8e 
dOXrjTTjv Xr](f)dev TTOitjaeL, ovB' earac ;^/37^CTtyLtoi' rep 

pL7)T€ TTJV €771(7X7^ pLTjV eKdoTOV Xa^OVTL jLlTJTe ry]V 

pLeXerrjv LKavrjv Trapaaxop-eva); YloXXov yap dv, 
■^ S' OS, rd dpyava rjv d^ta. 

XV. OuKovv, rjv S' eyco, oaco p^eytarov to twv 

E (f)vXdKcov epyov, ToaovTcp axoXrjs re tiov dXXcov 

TrXeLaTrjs dv eirj Kai av Texvr]S re /cat e77t/ieAeta? 

pLeyiarrj's Seop-evov. Ot/xat eywye, rj 8' 6s. ^A/a' 

^ dXXd aKHTOTo/xov II : not indispensable, and A omits. 

" IVa drj ironical. 
* Cf. 370 B-c. 

' The ironical argument ex contrario is continued with 
fresh illustrations to the end of the chapter. 
" Cf. on 467 A. 



at pains to prevent the cobbler from attempting to 
be at the same time a farmer, a weaver, or a builder 
instead of just a cobbler, to the end that" we might 
have the cobbler's business well done, and similarly 
assigned to each and every one man one occupation, 
for which he was fit and naturally adapted and at 
which he was to work all his days, at leisure * from 
other pursuits and not letting slip the right moments 
for doing the work well, and that yet we are in doubt 
whether the right accomplishment of the business of 
war is not of supreme moment ? Is it so easy <^ that a 
man who is cultivating the soil will be at the same time 
a soldier and one who is practising cobbhng or any other 
trade, though no man in the world could make himself 
a competent expert at draughts or the dice who did not 
practise that and nothing else from childhood <* but 
treated it as an occasional business ? And are we to 
believe that a man who takes in hand a shield or any 
other instrument of war springs up on that very day 
a competent combatant in heavy armour or in any 
other form of warfare — though no other tool will 
make a man be an artist or an athlete by his taking 
it in hand, nor will it be of any service to those who 
have neither acquired the science* of it nor sufficiently 
practised themselves in its use ? " " Great indeed," 
he said, " would be the value of tools in that case !'" 
XV. " Then," said I, " in the same degree that the 
task of our guardians » is the greatest of all, it would 
require more leisure than any other business and the 
greatest science and training." " I think so," said he. 

• For the three requisites, science, practice, and natural 
ability cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, note 396, and ray paper 
on <I>iVtj. MeXerr/, 'ETritrT^^uT;, Tr. A. Ph. A. vol. xL, 1910. 

* Cf. Thucyd. ii. 40. 

» First mention. Cf. 428 d note, 414 b. 



ovv ov KaL (f)va€cos iTnrrjSeias els avro to imTij- 
oevfia; Ucijg S' ov; 'Idfierepov St] epyov av eirj, 
CO? koLKev, e'lTTep oloi t' ecr/xeV, eKXe^aadai, rives 
re KaL rroZai (jyvaeis eTnTT^SeLai elg TToXeojg (f)vXaK'qv. 
Hfierepov pbivroi. Mo. Ata, fjv 8' eya», ovk dpa 
(jyavXov TTpdypLa r^pdpieda- o/xcos 8e ovk d77o8et- 
375 Xtareov, oaov y dv Svvapiis TrapeLKrj. Ov yap ovv, 
ecfyf]- Otei ovv ri, ■^v 8' eyd), hia^epeiv (f)vaiv 
yevvaiov uKvXaKos ets (f)vXaKrjv veaviaKov ev- 
yevovs; To ttoZov Xeyets; Olov o^vv re ttov Sei 
avroLv eKarepov elvai rrpos atadrjcrtv Kal eXa^pov 
TTpos ro aladav6f.ievov BcwKdOeiv, Kal laxvpov av, 
idv Ser) eXovra Sta/xap^eo-^at. Aet yap ovv, e^f], 
Trdvrojv rovrcov. Kat ixtjv dvhpeZov ye, etirep ev 
/jLaxeZrai. IlcD? 8' ov; 'ArSpeto? 86 etvai, dpa 
edeXrjaeL 6 jjct] dvfioeiSrjg e'ire Ittttos elre kvcov tj 
B aAAo oriovv t^cbov; r) ovk evvevorjKas, d)S ajxaxov 
re KaL avLKrjrov dvfios, ov Trapovros ^v^r] irdaa 
TTpos TTavra d(f)o^6s re earL Kal d'qrrrjros; Ei^- 
vevo-qKa. To. fxev roivvv rod acofxaros olov Set rov 
(f)vXaKa elvai, SrjXa. Nat. Kat fjLrjv Kal rd rrjs 
fpvx'rjs, OTL ye dvpLoeLSij. Kat rovro. IT a)? ovv, 
rjv 8' eyd), & VXavKOiv , ovk dypLOL dXXrjXoLS re 
eaovraL KaL rots dXXoLs TToAtrats", dvres tolovtol 
rds (jivaeLs; Ma Ata, rj 8' ds, ov paSlcos. 'AAAa 
C fievroL 8et ye Tvpos piev rovs oIkclovs irpdovs avrovs 

" aiadavd/xevov : present. There is no pause between per- 
ception and pursuit. 

* In common parlance. Philosophically speaking, no 
brute is brave. Laches 196 d, infra 430 b. 

* Anger (or the heart's desire ?) buys its wUI at the price 
of life, as Heracleitus says (Fr. 105 Bywater). Cf. Aristot. 
Eth. Nic. 1 105 a 9, 1 1 16 b 23. 



" Does it not also require a nature adapted to that 
very pursuit ? " "Of course." " It becomes our task, 
then, it seems, if we are able, to select which and 
what kind of natures are suited for the guardianship 
of a state." "Yes, ours." " Upon my word," said I, 
" it is no light task that we have taken upon our- 
selves. But we must not faint so far as our strength 
allows." " No, we mustn't." " Do you think," said 
I, " that there is any difference between the nature 
of a well-bred hound for this watch-dog's work and 
that of a well-born lad ? " " What point have you 
in mind ? " "I mean that each of them must be 
keen of perception, quick in pursuit of what it has 
apprehended," and strong too if it has to fight it out 
with its captive." " Why, yes," said he, " there is 
need of all these qualities." " And it must, further, 
be brave * if it is to fight well." "Of course." "And 
will a creature be ready to be brave that is not 
high-spirited, whether horse or dog or anything else ? 
Have you never observed what an irresistible and 
invincible thing is spirit,*^ the presence of which makes 
every soul in the face of everything fearless and un- 
conquerable } " " I have." " Tlie physical qualities 
of the guardian, then, are obvious." "Yes." "And 
also those of his soul, namely that he must be 
of high spirit." " Yes, this too." " How then, 
Glaucon," said I, " will they escape being savage to 
one another <* and to the other citizens if this is to be 
their nature ? " " Not easily, by Zeus," said he. 
" And yet we must have them gentle to their friends 

' Cf. Spencer, Psychology § 511: "Men cannot be kept 
unsympathetic towards external enemies without being kept 
unsvmpathetic towards internal enemies." For what follows 
cf. Dio Chrys. Or. i. 44 R., Julian, Or. ii. 86 D. 



eii^at, irpog 8e tows' TToXefxiovs xciAe77oys" et 8e ju-"*?, 
ov TTepifxevovatv dXXovs a(f)ds StoAe'crai, dAA' aurot 
<f)6rjaovTaL avTO Spdaavreg. 'AXr]dT], €(f)r]. Tt ow, 
•^t' 8' eyco, TTOL-qcrofjiev ; TtoOev dfia Ttpdov /cat 
fjLeyaXoOvixov rjOos evp-qaofiev ; evavria yap ttov 
dvpLoeLhel Trpaela (f)vais. OatVerat. 'AAAa fievTOi 
TOVTOiv oTTOTcpov dv areprjTaL, 0uAa^ dyaOos ov 
fiTj yevqraf ravra 8e dSvvdrois €oiK€, kol ovroi 

D 817 ^v/jL^aLvet, dyadov ^uAa/ca aSwaroi^ yeviadai. 
¥s.Lvhvvevei, €(/)r]. /cat eyct) dTToprjaas re /cat ctti- 
aKeifjdfjLcvos rd efnrpoadev, At/catco? ye, i^v 8' eyc5, 
c5 0iAe, dnopovp^ev rjs ydp rrpovdefieda cIkovos 
a7T€XeL(f>drjixev. Ilais" Aeyets; Ovk ivon^aajxev, on 
etoti' apa (fyvaets, olas rjixels ovk (h'q6r]p,€v, exovaai 
rdvavria ravra. Y\.ov h-q; "ISoi pbkv dv ris /cat 
iv aAAot? ^wots", ov /xeW ai^ rJKicrra iv co 'qpiels 

E TTape^dXKopLev rep (f)vXaKt. olada ydp ttov rojv 
yevvatcDV kvvcov, on rovro (fyvaei avrcov ro "^dog, 
TTpos pLcv rovs avvT^deis re /cat yvcopijxovs co? oiov 
re TTpaordrovs elvat,, Trpos 8e rovs ayvcoras 
rovvavriov. Ot8a fievroi. Touto jxev dpa, rjv 8 
iyco, Svvarov, /cat ov Trapd ^vaiv t;r]rovpLev roiov- 
rov elvai rov (f)vXaKa. Ovk eoiKev. 

XVI. ^Ap' ovu aoL So/cet eVi rou8e TrpoaSeiadai o 
(fjvXaKiKOs eaop.evo'S, Trpos rep 6vp.oei,SeL en Trpoa- 
veveadai (f)iX6ao(j>os rrjv (fyvaiv; YidJs hiq^ ; €(f>r]' ov 

^ 5rj q: others 5e' or ye. 

" The contrast of the strenuous and gentle temperaments 
is a chief point in Platonic ethics and education. Cf. Unity 
0/ Plato's Thought, nn. 59, 70, 481. 




and h arsh to theirenemies ; otherwise they ^^'ill not 
await their destruction^aT the hands of others, but 
will be first themselves in bringing it about." " True," 
he said. " What, then, are we to do ? " said 1 
" W here shall we discover a disposition tJiat is at / 
once gentle and great-spirited ? For there appears 
to be an opposition * between the spirited type and 
the gentle nature." " There does." " But yet if 
one lacks either of these qualities, a good guardian 
he never can be. But these requirements resemble 
impossibilities, and so the result is that a good 
guardian is impossible." " It seems hkely," he said. 
And I was at a standstill, and after reconsidering 
what we had been saying, I said, " We deserve to be 
at a loss, my friend, for we have lost sight of the 
comparison that we set before ourselves.* " " What 
do you mean ? " " We failed to note that there are 
after all such natures as we thought impossible, en- 
dowed with these opposite qualities." " WTiere ? " 
" It may be observed in other animals, but especially 
in that which we Ukened to the guardian. You surely 
have observed in well-bred hounds that their natural 
disposition is to be most gentle to their familiars and 
those whom they recognize, but the contrary to those 
whom they do not know." " I am aware of that." 
" The thing is possible, then," said I, " and it is not 
an unnatural requirement that we are looking for in 
our guardian." " It seems not." 

X\T. " And does it seem to you that our guardian- 
to-be will also need, in addition to the being high- 
spirited, the further quahty of ha\ing the love of 
wisdom in his nature ? " " How so ? "^ he safdT " r3on't 

* Plato never really deduces his ai^ument from the imagery 
which he uses to illustrate it. 



376 y^P €wou). Kat tovto, ■^v 8' iyo), iv toXs Kval 
KaTotpei, o /cat a^iov Oavfidarai rov drjpiov. To 
TToiov; Ov fiev dv tSr) dyvcoTa, ;(aAe77atVei, ovSev 
oe KaKov TTpo7T€7T0vdcos^ • OV S' dv yva)pL[xov, daird- 
^erai, Kav fjirjSev TTcvrrore vtt* avrov dyadov ttc- 
TTOvdrj. Tj OV7TCO TOVTO eOaufxaaag; Ov Trdvv, €cf)r], 
fi^xpi- TOVTOV 7rpo(jea-)(ov tov vovv otl Se ttov Spa 
TavTa, SrjXov. 'AA,\a firjv KOfxijjov ye (j^aiveTai to 

B nddos avTOV Trjg cfivaeojs /cat d>s dXrjOiog ^i\6ao<j>ov . 
Yifj hri; *"Ht, Tjv S' eyo), oijjLv ovSevl aAAoi ^iXrjV 
/cat ixdpdv Sta/cptVet, rj tw ttju [xev KaTafxadelv, Trjv 
8e dyvoTJaai' KaiTot ttcos ovk dv ^iXoyiaOes e'irj, 
avveaet re /cat ayvoia 6pLl,6fX€vov to re ot/cetov /cat 
TO dXXoTpiov; OySa/xcDs", ■^ S' o?, ottcos ov. 
AAAa fievTOL, €LTrov iyo), to ye cfjiXofxades /cat 
(f)iX6ao(f)ov TavTov; TavTOV ydp, e(f)r). Ovkovv 
6appovvT€s Tidayfiev /cat iv dvdpcoTrcp, el fxeXXei 

C TTpos Tovs OLKeiovs /cat yvcopipLOVs Trpdos tls 
eaeaOai, (fivaei ^iX6ao(j)ov /cat (j)iXofxadrj avTov Selv 
etvai; Tidoj/JLev, e(f)-Q. OtAoao^o? §17 /cat dvfxoeLSrjs 
/cat Tail's /cat taxvpog rjfiXv ttjv c^vaiv earat o 
fieXXajv KaXos Kdyados ecreadai (f)vXa^ TToXeojs; 
WavTdiTaai fxev ovv, ^.^i)' Ovtos piev Srj dv ovtcos 
VTrdpxoL' dpeifjovTai. he Srj rjfuv oStoi. /cat TratSeu- 

^ wpoireiroi'0d)s 11. 

" (piXocro^ov : etymologically here, as a;s dXrjOQs indicates. 
" Your dog now is j'our only philosopher," says Plato, not 
more seriously than Rabelais (Prologue): " Mais vistes vous 
oncques chien rencontrant quelque os meduUaire: c'est 
comme dit Platon, lib. ii. de Rep., la beste du monde plus 
philosophe." Cf. Huxley, Hume, p. 104 : "The dog who 
barks furiously at a beggar will let a well-dressed man pass 
him without opposition. Has he not a ' general idea ' of rags 
and dirt associated with the idea of aversion?" Diimmler 


aj)prehend your meaning." " This too," said I, " is 
something that you will discover in dogs and which 
is worth our wonder in the creature." " What ? " 
" That the sight of an unknown person angers him 
before he has suffered any injury, but an acquaintance 
he will fa^vn upon though he has never received any 
kindness from him. Have you never marvelled at 
that ? " "I never paid any attention to the matter 
before now, but that he acts in some such way is 
obvious." " But surely that is an exquisite trait of his 
nature and one that shows a true love of wisdom." " 
" In what respect, pray ? " " In respect," said I, 
" that he distinguishes a friendly from a hostile aspect 
by nothing save his apprehension of the one and his 
failure to recognize the other. How, I ask you,'' can 
the love of learning be denied to a creature whose 
criterion of the friendly and the alien is intelligence 
and ignorance ? " " It certainly cannot," he said. 
" But you will admit," said I, " that the love of 
learning and the love of wisdom are the same ? " 
" The same," he said. " Then may we not confidently 
lay it down in the case of man too, that if he is to 
be in some sort gentle to friends and familiars he must 
be T)y nature a lover of wisdom and of learning ? " 
"Let us so assume," he replied. " The love of wisdom,- 
then, and high spirit and quickness and strength will 
be combined for us in the nature of him who is to 
be a good and true guardian of the state," " By 
all means," he said. " Such, then," I said, "would 
be the basis'' of his character. But the rearing of 

and others assume that Plato is satirizing the Cynics, but 
who were the Cynics in 380-370 b.c. ? 

* Kairoi TTws : humorous oratorical appeal. Cf. 360 c kolltol. 

* Cf. 343 E. v-irdpxoi marks the basis of nature as opposed 
to teaching. 



diqaovTai, riva rpoirov; /cat dpd rt TTpovpyov 'qplv 
D iarlv avTo aKo-novai irpos to KariSelu, ovirep eVe/ca 
TtdvTa GKOTToujjLev, hiKaioavvrjv re /cat aStKtav' rtVa 
rpoTTOv €V TToAet ytyj^erat; tva jxrj iwjxev iKavov 
Xoyov ^ avxvov Ste^tco/xev. /cat o tou VXavKoivo^ 
d8eX.(f)6g riai'U fiev ovv, €(f)rj, eyayye TrpoahoKO) 
TTpovpyov elvai et? tovto ravrrjv ttju aid^Lv. Ma 
Ata, riv 8' €y(xj, a) <f)i\€ ^ASeifxavre, ovk dpa 
a<j>eTeoVy ouS' et jxaKporepa rvyxd-vet ovaa. Ov 
yap ovv. Idi ovv, (jjairep iv jjivdu) /xvOoXoyovvres 
E re /cat axoXrjv dyovreg Xoycp TraLSevcofiev tovs 
dvSpas. 'AAAa XPV- 

XVII. Ti? ovv Tj TTatSeta; ■^ ;;^aAe7roi' evpelv 
^eXrio) TTJg. vtto rov ttoXXov xP^^^^ €vpr][ji€vr]<;; 
eoTL Se TTOV rj jxev CTrt acofiaai yvfMvaarcKTJ , r] 8' 
67rt ^vxfi pLovaiKiq. "Ectti ydp. ^Ap' ovv ov fxovai- 
KTJ TTporepov dp^ofieda TraiSevovrcs "^ yvixvaoTLKfj ; 
ricDs" 8' ov; Moucri/c^S' 8' etVaji'^ Ti6r]g Xoyovs, 17 
ou; "Eya;ye. Aoycoi' 8e 8tTToi' elSos, to /tev 
dXrjdes, ijjevSos 8' erepov; Nai. Ylaihevreov 8' 
377 ei' dpi<j)orepois, TTporepov 8' et" toi? i/jevSecnv; Ov 
fiavddvo), €(f)r), ttws Aeyet?. Oi) [xavddvei?, rjv 8 
eyco, OTt TTpdJrov rols Traihiois fivOovg Xeyofiev, 

TOVTO 8e TTOV d)5 TO oXoV €LTT€lv ifjCvSoS, €Vl 8e /Cttt 
^ etTrd)!' All : elTroy v. 

" Cf. Introd. pp. xxi-xxii, and Phaedr. 276 e. 

'' Plato likes to contrast the leisure of philosophy with the 
hurry of business and law. Cf. Theaetet. 172 c-d. 

" For the abrupt question cf. 360 e. Plato here prescribes 
for all the guardians, or military class, the normal Greek 
education in music and gymnastics, purged of what he 
considers its errors. A higher philosophic education will 
prepare a selected few for the office of guardians par excellence 


these men and their education, how shall we manage 
that ? And ^vill the consideration of this topic 
advance us in any way towards discerning what is 
the object of our entire inquiry — the origin of justice 
and injustice in a state — our aim must be to omit 

thing of a sufficient discussion, and yet not to 
\y it out to tiresome length ? " And Glaucon's 
■ rother rephed, "Certainly, I expect that this in- 
quiry will bring us nearer to that end." " Certainly, 
then, my dear Adeimantus," said I, " we must not 
abandon it even if it prove to be rather long." " No, 
must not." " Come, then, just as if we were 

hng stories or fables" and had ample leisure,* let 
us educate these men in our discourse." " So we 
must." -f[ -%., i' . * . 

XVII. "WTiat, then, isour education?" Orisithard 
to find a better than that which long time has dis- 
covered ? "* Which is, I suppose, gymnastics for the 
body * and for the soul music." " It is." "And shall 
we not begin education in music earUer than in g}"m- 
nastics?" "Of course." "And under music you include 
tales, do you not ? " "I do." " And tales are of two 
species, the one true and the other false ? " " Yes." 
" And education must make use of both, but first 
of the false ' ? " "I don't understand your meaning." 
" Don't you understand," I said, " that we begin 
by telhng children fables, and the fable is, taken as a 
or rulers. Quite unwarranted is the supposition that the 
higher education was not in Plato's mind when he described 
the lower. Cf. il2 a, 429 d-430 c, 497 c-d. Unity of 
Plato's Thought, n. 650. 

* For this conservative argument cf. Politieus 300 b. Lores 
844 a. 

• Qualified in 410 c. fiowiK-f) is playing the lyre, music, 
poetry, letters, culture, philosophy, according to the context. 

' A slight paradox to surprise attention. 



aXrjOr}; -npoTepov Se fivOoi? rrpos ra Traihia r^ 
yvjxvaaiois y^pojixeda. "Ectti ravra. Tovro 8r) 
eXsyov, OTL fiovcnKrjg Trporepov aTrreov rj yvfxva- 
(TTiKrjg. OpOoiSy ^(j^V- OvKovv olad* on o.pXV 
TTavTos epyov pbeyiarov, dXXoJS re Srj /cat via) Kal 

B airaXcp otcoovv; ixaXiaTa yap hr] tot€ TrXdrreTai 
Kai ivSverai tvttos, ov dv rt? ^ovXrirai ivarjpL-q- 
vaadai eKaarco. Ko/miStj /xer ovv. ^Ap' ovv paSlcos 
ovTCo Trapiqaoixev rovs eTnrvxovras vtto raJv ein- 
rv^ovrajv jxvdovs TrXaadevrag aKovecv rovs TralSas 
Kal Xafx^dv€LV iv rals i/jvxcus OJS evrt to ttoXv 
evavTiag Bo^as eKelvaig, a?, iTretSdv reXeoidwaiv, 
ex^i-v olrjGOfxeda Selv avTovs; OuS' oTTioarLOVv 
TTaprjaofjiev. Ylpcorov Sr), (Ls eoiKev, €7Tt- 

C crraTTjrdov tols pLvOoTToiols, /cat ov fxev dv KaXoi 
TTOLrjacoaiv , eyKpireov, ov 8' dv puf^, aTTOKpiriov 
Tovs 8' eyKpiOevras Treiaopiev rag Tpocf)ovs re /cat 
pLT^Tepas Xeyeiv toZs Traial /cat TtXarreLV rds tfivxds 
avTcjv rots pvdoig ttoXv pbaXXov ^ ra acjpara rals 
X^pcTLV, u)v 8e vvv XeyovoL rovs ttoXXovs eK^Xr^reov. 
Iloioys' 87^; i(f>'f]- 'Eiv roLs pieit^oaiv, rjv 8' iyd), 
pLvdois oijjopiGda Kal rovs eXdrrovg. 8et yap 817 
rov avrov rvTTOv etvat Kal ravrov Svvaadai rovs t€ 

D p,€L^ovs Kal rovs iXdrrovs. 17 ovk o'Ul; "Eycoy', 

" Cf. Laws 753 E, 765 e, Antiphon, fr. 134 Blass. 
' Cf. Laws 664: b, and Shelley's 

" Specious names 
Learned in soft childhood's unsuspecting hour," 

perhaps derived from the educational philosophy of Rousseau. 

* The image became a commonplace. Cf. Theaetet. 191 d, 

Horace, Ep. ii. 2. 8, the Stoic Tvirucm (v \pvxv, and Byron's 

" Wax to receive and marble to retain." 




whole, false, but there is truth in it also ? And we 
make use of fable with children before gymnastics." 
" That is so." " That, then, is what I meant by 
saying that we must take up music before gym- 
nastics." " You were right," he said. " Do you 
not know, then, that the beginning in every task is 
the chief thing," especially for any creature that is 
young and tender ^ ? For it is then that it is best 
moulded and takes the impression " that one wishes 
to stamp upon it." " Quite so." " Shall we, then, 
thus lightly suffer'' our children to listen to any 
chance stories fashioned by any chance teachers 
and so to take into their minds opinions for the most 
part contrary to those that we shall think it desirable 
for them to hold when they are grown up ? " "By 
no manner of means will we allow it." " We must 
begin, then, it seems, by a censorship over our story- 
makers, and what they do well we must pass and what 
not, reject. And the stories on the accepted list 
we will induce nurses and mothers to tell to the 
children and so shape their souls by these stories far 
rather than their bodies by their hands. But most 
of the stories they now tell we must reject." " What 
sort of stories ? " he said. " The example of the 
greater stories," I said, " will show us the lesser also. 
For surely the pattern must be the same and the 
greater and the less must have a like tendency. 
Don't you think so ? " "I do," he said ; " but I 

^ Cf. the censorship proposed in Laws 656 c. Plato's 
criticism of the mythology is anticipated in part by Euripides, 
Xenophanes, Heracleitus, and Pji:hagoras. Cf. Decharme, 
Euripides and the Spirit of his Dramas, translated by James 
Loeb, chap. ii. Many of the Christian Fathers repeated his 
criticism almost verbatim, 

VOL. 1 N 177 


cfpt]' aAA' ovK evvoo) ovhk rovs ixeiljOVs rivas Xeyeig. 
Ovs 'HaioSos re, eiTTov, koI "Ofxr^pos rjixlv iXeyerr^v 
/cat OL aXXoi TTOLTjrat. oSroi yap ttov fivdovs rots 
avdpcoTTois i/jevSeXg avvTidevres eXeyov re koI Xeyov- 
aiv. riotous' Siq, rj S' 6s, Kal ri avribv fieficfiofjievos 
Xeyeis; "OTrep, rju 8' iyo), XPV '^'^^ Trpcorov /cat 
fxaXiGTa pi€fx(f)€a6ai, a'AAcos" re Kat idv Ti? p-rj KaXoJs 
E ipevSrjTai,. Tt tovto; "Orav eiKa^r) tls KaKcos rep 
Xoytp TTcpl deojv re Kal rjpcowv otoi elaiv, cjairep 
ypa(f)evs pbtjSev eoiKora ypd(f)a>v ols av 6/xota 
^ovX-qdfj ypdipai. Kat ycip, e^ry, opdojs e;\;et ra 
ye Totavra p,ep.(f>eadat. dXXd ttcDs" Btj Xeyop,ev /cat 
TTola; Y{pu)Tov p-ev, rjv 8' eyo), to p^eyiarov Kat 
TTepl Tcov pLeyiarojv ifievhos 6 eliroiv ov KaXoJS 
eipevaaro, cos Ovpavos re elpydaaTO a (jyiqaL hpdaai, 
avrov 'HatoSo?, o re av V^povos (Jos erLpnapiqaaro 
378 avrov ra he Stj rod Ys^povov epya /cat rrddrj vtto 
rod vleos, oi58' av el rjV dXrjdrj, <pp,7]v Setv paStois 
ovrcD Xeyeodai irpos d^povds re /cat veovs, dXXd 
pidXiara piev aiydaOai, el he dvdyKrj rts rjv Xeyecv, 
8t' dTTopprjraiv aKoveiv (hs oXLyiarovs, dvaapevovs 
ov xo^pov, dXXd ri p,eya /cat drropov dvpa, ottcos o 
ri eXaxloroLs ovve^rj aKovaai. Kat ydp, rj 8 os, 
ovroi ye ol Xoyoi x^XerToi. Kat ov Ae/creot y , 
B €(f)rjv, (L ^Ahetpiavre, iv rfj rjpierepa noXei, ovhe 
XeKreov vecp aKovovn, (hs dhiKcov rd eaxo.ra ovhev 

" Theogony 151-181. 

"" Conservative feeling or caution prevents Plato from pro- 
scribing absolutely what may be a necessary part of 
traditional or mystical religion. 

* The ordinary sacrifice at the Eleusinian mysteries. Cf. 



don't apprehend which you mean by the greater, 
either." " Those." I said, " that Hesiod ^ and Homer 
and the other poets related to us. These, methinks, 
composed false stories which they told and still tell 
to mankind." " Of what sort ? " he said; " and 
with what in them do you find fault ? " " With 
that," I said, " which one ought first and chiefly to 
blame, especially if the Ke is not a pretty one." 
" WTiat is that ? " " When anyone images badly in 
his speech the true nature of gods and heroes, like 
a painter whose portraits bear no resemblance to 
his models." " It is certainly right to condemn 
things like that," he said; "but just what do we 
mean and what particular things ? " " There is, 
first of all," I said, " the greatest lie about the things 
of greatest concernment, which was no pretty 
invention of him who told how Uranus did what 
Hesiod says he did to Cronos, and how Cronos in 
turn took his revenge ; and then there are the doings 
and sufferings of Cronos at the hands of his son. 
Even if they were true I should not think that they 
ought to be thus lightly told to thoughtless young 
persons. But the best way would be to bury them 
in silence, and if there were some necessity* for 
relating them, that only a very small audience 
should be admitted under pledge of secrecy and after 
sacrificing, not a pig.*" but some huge and unprocural^le 
victim, to the end that as few as possible should have 
heard these tales." " Why, yes," said he, " such 
stories are hard sayings." " Yes, and they are not 
to be told, Adeimantus, in our city, nor is it to be 
said in the hearing of a young man, that in doing 

Aristoph. Aeham. 747, Peacs 374-375 : Walter Pater, Denut&r 
and the Pig. 



av Oavfiaarov ttolol, o?5S' av dSiKovvra Trarepa 
KoXdt,0}v iravrl rpoTTCo, aAAa 8pa>rj dv orrep deojv ol 
irpcoTOL T€ Kal pLeycaroL. Ov p,d rov Ata, rj 8' os, 
ouSe avTO) pLot Sofcet eTriri^Seta elvai XeyeLv. OvSe 
ye, "^v S' iycL), to Trapdrrav, cos Oeol deots ttoAc- 
pLOvai T€ Kal iin^ovXevovaL /cat pbd^ovrai- ovhk 

C ydp dX-qdrj- et ye Sei r)p,LV rovs pieXXovras rrjv 
TToXiv (jyvXd^eiv acaxtcrTOv vopblt^eiv to pahiois d^Xt]- 
XoLs dTTexddveaOaf ttoXXov Set yLyavTOpia)(Las re 
pLvdoXoyrjTeov avTolg Kal ttolklXtcov, Kal dXXas 
€)(Opas TToAAa? Kal iravTohaTTas dewv re Kal rjpwcov 
npos avyyeveis re Kal oIk€lovs avTcov dXX' e't 
7TWS p-eXXopiev ireiaeiv, cos ouSei? najTroTe ttoXittjs 
€Tepos €T€pq) d7Tri-)(deTO ouS' eart tovto daiov, 

D TOiavTa pdXXov Trpos ra TratSta evdvs Kal yepovai 
Kai ypavoL, /cat npea^vTepoLg yiyvop,€voLS, Kai tovs 
TTOL-qTas iyyvs tovtcdv dvayKaoTcov XoyoTToielv. 
"Upas 8e Seopiovs vtto vUos Kal 'H^atWou pttpeis 


velv, /cat deopLaxicLS oaas "0p,7]pos TreTToirjKev ov 

" Plato does not sympathize with the Samuel Butlers of 
his day. Cf. Euthyphro 4 b, Crito 51b. 

' The argument, whether used in jest or earnest, was a 
commonplace. Cf. Schmidt, Ethik der Oriechen, i. 137, 
Laws 941 B, Aeschyl. Eumen. 640-641, Terence, Eunuchus 
590 " At quem deum ! . . . ego homuncio hoc non facerem." 
The Neoplatonists met the criticism of Plato and the Christian 
Fathers by allegorizing or refining away the immoral parts 
of the mythology, but St. Augustine cleverly retorts {De Civ. 
Dei, ii. 7): "Omnes enim . . . cultores talium deorum . . . 
magis intuentur quid lupiter fecerit quam quid docuerit 

" Cf. the protest in the Euthyphro 6 b, beautifully trans- 
lated by Ruskin, Aratra Pentelici § 107 : " And think you 
that there is verily war with each other among the gods? 



the utmost wrong he would do nothing to surprise 
anyBody7 nor again in punishing his father's " wTong- 
doings to the hmit, but would only be following the 
example of the first and greatest of the gods.*" 
" No, by heaven," said he, " I do not myself think 
that they are fit to be told." " Neither must we 
admit at all," said I, " that gods war with gods "^ and 
plot against one another and contend — for it is not 
true either — if we wish our future guardians to deem 
nothing more shameful than lightly to fall out with 
one another ; still less must we make battles of gods 
and giants the subject for them of stories and 
embroideries,'* and other enmities many and manifold 
of gods and heroes toward their kith and kin. But 
if there is any likelihood of our persuading them that 
no citizen ever quarrelled with his fellow-citizen and 
that the very idea of it is an impiety, that is the sort 
of thing that ought rather to be said by their elders, 
men and women, to children from the beginning 
and as they grow older, and we must compel the 
poets to keep close to this in their compositions. 
But Hera's fetterings * by her son and the hurling 
out of heaven of Hephaestus by his father when he 
was trying to save his mother from a beating, and 
the battles of the gods ^ in Homer's verse are things 

And dreadful enmities and battles, such as the poets have 
told, and such as our painters set forth in graven sculpture 
to adorn all our sacred rites and holy places. Yes, and in 
the great Panathenaia themselves the Peplus, full of such 
wild picturing, is carried up into the Acropolis — shall we 
say that these things are true, oh Euthyphron, right-minded 
friend ? " 

•* On the Panathenaic WirXoj of Athena. 

• The title of a play by Epicharmus. The hurling of 
Hephaestus, 11. i. 586-594. 

' //. XX. 1-74; xxi. 385-513. 



■napaheKTeov els ttji' ttoXcv, ovt iu virovoiais 

7Te7TOir]iJL€vas ovre avev vttovoicov. 6 yap veog ovx 

olos re Kpiveiv 6 ri re VTTOvoia /cat o pirj, aAA' a 

av TTjXtKovTog a)v Xd^rj ev rals So^aig, hvaeKVLTrrd 

E re Kol dixerdarara (f>LXel yiyveodai. ayv hrj lotos 

eveKa vepl iravros noi-qreov, d Trpwra 6.Kovovaiv, 

6 Tt KoXXiara fxepLvOoXoyripieva vpos dperrjv aKoveiv. 

XVIII. "EiX^i- ydp, €(l)r), Xoyov. aAA' et tls av 

Kal Tavra epcorcprj rjpLds, ravra drra earl Kal rives 

OL pivdoiy rivas av ^at/xei^; Kal eyoj etTTOv ^Q. 

ASeijxavre,ovK eapev TTOirjral eyco re Kal av ev rat 

379 TTapovri, aAA OLKLarat voXecos- OLKiaralg 8e rovs 

fiev rvTTOVs Tvpoa-qKet elhevai, ev ols Set pivOoXoyelv 

rovs TTOi'qrds, rtap ovs edv ttoiwolv ovk einrpeTT- 

reov, ov p.r]v avrois ye TTOirjreov puvdovs. ^OpOaJs, 

e^rj- aAA' avro Srj rovro, ol rvTTOi Trepl deoXoyias 

rives dv elev; Toioihe ttov rives, rjv S' eyay olos 

rvyxdvet o deos <x>v, del hrjTTOv drrohoreov , edv re 

ris avrov ev eireoi ttoltj edv re ev peXeoiv^ edv re ev 

rpayojSia. Aet ydp. Ovkovv dyaOos 6 ye deos ro) 

B ovri re Kal XeKreov ovrcos; Tt p.i]v; 'AAAa fjbrjv 

ovSev ye rcov dyadcov fiXa^epov. rj ydp; Ov p,OL 

hoKel. 'Ap' ovv, o fiTj ^Xa^epov, BXaTrrei; OySa- 

^ idv re ev /xiXeffiv II : om. A. 

" vTToi'OLa : the older word for allegory : Plutarch, De Aud. 
Poet. 19 E. For the allegorical interpretation of Homer in 
Plato's time cf. Jebb, Homer, p. 89, and Mrs. Anne Bates 
Hersman's Chicago Dissertation: Studies in Greek Allegorical 

*" The poet, like the rhetorician {Politicus 304 d), is a 
ministerial agent of the royal or political art. So virtually 
Aristotle, Politics 1336 b. 

' The ye implies that God is good ex vi termini. 

"* It is characteristic of Plato to distinguish the fact and 


that we must not admit into our city either wrought 
in allegory " or without allegory. For the young are 
not able to distinguish what is and what is not 
allegory, but whatever opinions are taken into the 
mind at that age are wont to prove indelible and 
unalterable. For whi ch reason, maybe, we should 
do our utmost that the first stories that they hear 
should be so composed as to bring the fairest lessons 
of \irtue to their ears." 

XVIII. " Yes, that is reasonable," he said ; " but if 
again someone should ask us to be specific and say 
what these compositions may be and what are the 
tales, what could we name ? " And I replied, " Adei- 
mantus, we are not poets,* you and I at present, but 
founders of a state. And to founders it pertains to 
know the patterns on which poets must compose 
their fables and from which their poems must not be 
allowed to de\iate ; but the founders are not required 
themselves to compose fables." " Right," he said ; 
" but this very thing — the patterns or norms of right 
speech about the gods, what wauld^Jth-ey. be ? " 
"Something like this," I said,. _ '.'.The-true quality 
of. God we must always surely attribute- -io him 
whether we compose in epic, melic, or tragic verse." 
" We must." " And is not God of course*^ good in 
reality and always to be spoken of** as such ? " " Cer- 
tainly." " But further, no good thing is harmful, is 
it ? " "1 think not." '* Can what isjadt harmful 

the desirability of proclaiming it. The argument proceeds 
by the minute links which tempt to parody. 

Below TO dyaSov, followed by ov8' apa ... 6 dfos, is in 
itself a refutation of the ontological identification in Plato of 
God and the Idea of Good. But the essential goodness of 
God is a commonplace of liberal and philosophical theology, 
from the Stoics to Whittier's hymn, ** The Eternal Goodness." 



fxcos. "O 8e fjirj jSAaTTTCi, KaKov ti TTOtel; OuSe 
rovro. "0 8e ye fxrjSev KaKov Trotet, oi5S' ai^ tivo? 
eirj KaKOV alriov; Dais" yap; Tt Se; dxjiiXiixov ro 
dyadov; Nat. Amov' apa evrrpaytas ; Nat. Ouk 
apa TravTCDV' ye atTtot' to dyadov, dXXd ro)v fxev ev 
exovTOJV aiTLov, rcov Se KaKwv dvaLTiov. Ilai'- 

C TeXojs y , €017. Oj)S' dpa, r\v V iyo), 6 deos, eVeiSi^ 
dyadov, TrdvTOiv dv etr) airios, d)S oi TroAAot Ae'- 
yovaiv, dAA' oXiycov fiev rolg dvdpcoTTOcs atrto?, ttoA- 
AcDt' 8e dvaiTtos' ttoXv yap eXaxTOi ray add rojv 
KaKcov Tjixlv Kal TU)v p.kv dyadcbv ovSeva dXXoi' 
aLTLareov, rtov Se KaKcbv d'AA' drTa Set l^rjreiv rd 
atria, dAA' ov rov deov. ^AXrjdearara, 'e<})rj, hoKels 
fioi Ae'yetf . Ovk dpa, rjv S' iyo), dTToheKreov ovre 

D 'OpLTjpov ovr dXXov TTOLrjTOV ravT-qv ttjv dpiapriav 
irept Tovs Oeoix; dvoT]TOJS dp-aprdvovTOs Kal Xeyovros 

CU? SotOt TTldoL 

KaraKetarai iv Ato? ouSei 
Krjpiov ejUTrAeiot, d p.€v iaOXcov, avrdp o SeiAdiv 

Kal (S p,ev dv p.i^as 6 Zeu? Sdj dp.(f>OT€poiv , 

d'AAore /zeV re KaKw 6 ye Kvperai, dXXore S' 

o) 8' di^ jLtTy, dAA' aKpara rd erepa, 

" Anticipates the proclamation of the prophet in the final 
myth, 617 e: alria eXofievov debi dvainos. The idea, elabor- 
ated in Cleanthes' hymn to Zeus, may be traced back to the 
speech of the Homeric Zeus in Od. i. 33 e^ rjfxeGiv yap <j)a<TL 
KCLK,€vai. St. Thomas distinguishes : ' Deus est auctor 
mali quod est poena, non autem mali quod est culpa." 

* A pessimistic commonplace more emphasized in the 



harm ? " " By no means." " Can that which does 
not harm do any evi\ ? " " Not that either." " But 
that which does no e\il would not be cause of any 
e\il either ? " " How could it ? " " Once more, is 
the good beneficent ? " " Yes." " It is the cause, 
then, of welfare ? " " Yes." " Then the good is not 
the cause of all things, but of things that are well it 
is the cause — of things that are ill it is blameless." 
" Entirely so," he said. " Neither, then, could God," 
said I, " since he is good, be, as the multitude say, 
the cause of all things, but for mankind he is the 
cause of few things, but of many things nof the 
cause." For good things are far fewer * with us than 
evil, and for the good we must assume no other cause 
than God, but the cause of evil we must look for in 
other things and not in God." " What you say seems 
to me most true," he replied. " Then," said I, " we 
must not accept from Homer or any other poet the 
folly of such error as this about the gods when he 
says '^ — 

Two urns stand on the floor of the palace of Zeus and 

are filled with 
Dooms he allots, one of blessings, the other of gifts 

that are evil, 

and to whomsoever Zeus gives of both commingled — 

Now upon evil he chances and now again good is his 

but the man for whom he does not blend the lots, 
but to whom he gives unmixed evil — 

Laws than in the Republic. Cf. Laws 896 e, where the 
Manichean hypothesis of an evil world-soul is suggested. 

' II. xxiv. 5:27-532. Plato, perhaps quoting from memory, 
abbreviates and adapts the Homeric quotation. This does 
not justify inferences about the Homeric text. 



Tov 8e KaKTj ^ov^pojaTis eVi x^^^*^ S^ci^ iXavvei' 

E oyS' cos rafjiias rjixlv Xevg 

dyadcbv re KaKcov re rervKrai. 

XIX. T'171' Se roJv opKcov Kai OTTOvSajv avyxvmv, 

rjv 6 HdvSapos avvex^^v, edv ns <j)fj hi *Adr]vds re 

Kal Aids yeyovevai, ovk eTraLvecrofjieda- ov8e dear. 

380 ^'ptp- re Kal KpiuLV hid Qepuros re Kal Atos" oi58' av, 

ws AlaxvXos Xeyei, eareov dKoveiv rovs veovs, on 

deos puev alriav (fivei ^porols, 
orav KaKcbcraL Sai/xa TrafXTnjhrjv deXrj. 

dAA' edv rig ttoljj, ev of? ravra rd lapL^ela eueari, 
rd rrjs Nto^Ty? rrddrj rj rd IleXoTnScbv t^ rd TpcoLKd 
7] rL dXXo rcov roiovrcov, -q ov deov epya eareov 
avrd Xeyeiv, r] el deov, e^evpereov avrois ax^hov ov 
vvv rjjxels Xoyov t^qrovp^eVy Kal XeKreov, cog 6 puev 
B deos hiKaid re Kal dyadd elpydt,ero , ol he covivavro 
KoXat,6p,evoL. cos he ddXioi piev ol hiKTjv hihovres. 
r^v he hrj 6 hpcov ravra Oeos, ovk eareov Xeyeiv rov 
TTOLrjrtjv dXX ei piev on eherjQriaav KoXdaecos 
Xeyoiev, cos ddXioi ol KaKoL, hihovres he hiK-qv 
(h<f>eXovvro vrro rod deov, eareov KaKcov he alnov 

" The line is not found in Homer, nor does Plato explicitly 
say that it is. Zeus is dispenser of war in II. iv. 84. 

" II. iv. 69 ff. 

" Ipif re Kal Kplaiv is used in Menex. 237 c of the contest of 
the gods for Attica. Here it is generally taken of the theo- 
machy, II. xx. 1-74, which begins with the summons of the 
gods to a council by Themis at the command of Zeus. It 
has also been understood, rather improbably, of the judge- 
ment of Paris. 

"* For the idea, " quem deus vult perdere dementat prius," 



Hunger devouring drives him. a wanderer over the wide 

nor will we tolerate the saying that 

Zeus is dispenser ahke of good and of evil to mortals." 

XIX. " But as to the violation of the oaths ^ and the 
truce by Pandarus, if anyone affirms it to have been 
brought about by the action of Athena and Zeus, we 
will not approve, nor that the strife and contention « of 
the gods was the doing of Themis and Zeus ; nor again 
must we permit our youth to hear what Aeschylus 
says — 

A god implants the guilty cause in men 
When he would utterly destroy a house,** 

but if any poets compose a ' Sorrows of Niobe,' the 
poem that contains these iambics, or a tale of the 
Pelopidae or of Troy, or anything else of the kind, 
we must either forbid them to say that these woes 
are the work of God, or they must devise some 
such interpretation as we now require, and must 
declare that what God did was righteous and good, 
and they were benefited * by their chastisement. But 
that they were miserable who paid the penalty, and 
that the doer of this was God, is a thing that the 
poet must not be suffered to say ; if on the other 
hand he should say that for needing chastisement 
the wicked were miserable and that in paying the 
penalty they were benefited by God, that we must 
allow. But as to saying that God, who is good, 

c/. Theognis 405, Schmidt, Ethik d. Griechen, i. pp. 235 and 
247, and Jebb on Soph. Antig. 620-624. 

• Plato's doctrine that punishment is remedial must apply 
to punishments inflicted by the gods. Cf. Prolog. 324 b, 
Gorg. 478 e, 480 a, 505 b, 525 b, infra 590 a-b. Yet there 
are some incurables. Cf. infra 615 e. 



<f)dvai deov tivi, yiyveadai ayadov ovra, 8ia- 
fiax^reov Travrl rpoTTW jji-qre tlvo. Xeyeiv ravra Iv 
T7J avrov TToAet, el jue'AAet evvofi'qaeadai, [x-qrc tlvo. 

C oLKoveLV, fJirjre veojrepov fjiii]T€ Trpea^vrepov, p,rjT Iv 
IX€Tp(p ixT]T€ dvev fJt,€Tpov fjLvdoXoyovvra, d)S ovre 
oaia dv Xeyofxeva, el Xeyoiro, ovre ^vp,(f)opa rjplv 
ovre avpL<f)Oiva avra avTols. ^vp-iprjcfiog aoi eljjLt, 
€<f)ri, Tovrov rou vofxov, /cat /xot dpeaKei. Ovtos 
fjuev roLvvv, rjv 8 eyco, els dv e'lrj tcjv irepl deovs 
vofJLCOv re Kal tvttcov, ev a> Sei^crei rovs Xeyovras 
Xeyeiv /cat tovs TTOiovvras TTOielv, fxrj Trdvrcov atriov 
TOP deov dXXd rdjv ayadcov. Kat fidX', ^(f>f], diro- 

D xpi]. Tt 8e 817 o 8ei)Tepo? o^e; dpa yorjra rov 
deov otet eti^at /cat oiov e^ eTn^ovXi]? (fjavrd^eadai 
aAAore ev dXXais I8eai,s, rore jxev avrov yiyvo- 
fxevov Kal dXXdrrovra ro avrov ethos ets TToXXds 
fjLop(f)ds, rore 8e rjiJids dirarcovra /cat TTOiovvra irepl 
avrov roiavra BoKelv, i] dnXovv re etvai /cat Trdvrcjov 
rJKiara rrjs eavrov ISeag eK^aiveiv; Ovk e^oj, e(f)T], 
vvv ye ovrws enrelv. Tt 8e roSe; ovk dvdyKrj, 
einep ri e^Lorairo rrjs avrov ISeas, rj avro vcf)^ 

E eavrov fxedlaraadac -q vtt' dXXov; 'Amy/C7y. Ovk- 
ovv VTTO fjiev d'AAoy rd dpcara e^ovra -rJKLara 
dXXoLovraL re /cat KiveZraL; olov adjpa vtto atriiov 

" Minucius Felix says of Plato's theology, Octav. chap, xix : 
" Platoni apertior de deo et rebus ipsis et nominibus oratio 
est et quae tota esset caelestis nisi persuasionis civilis non- 
nunquam admixtione sordesceret." 

* The two methods, (1) self-transformation, and (2) pro- 
duction of illusions in our minds, answer broadly to the two 
methods of deception distinguished in the Sophist 236 c. 

" Cf. Tim. 50 b, Cratyl. 439 e. Aristotle, H. A. i. 1. 32, 



becomes the cause of evil to anyone, we must con- 
tend in every way that neither should anyone assert 
this in his own city if it is to be well governed, nor 
anyone hear it, neither younger nor older, neither 
telling a story in metre or without metre ; for neither 
would the saying of such things, if they are said, be 
holy, nor would they be profitable to us or concordant 
with themselves." " I cast my vote with yours for this 
lawV* he said, " and am well pleased with it." " This, 
then," said I, " will be one of the laws and patterns 
concerning the gods ** to which speakers and poets will 
be required to conform, that God is not the cause of 
all things, but only of the good." " And an entirely 
satisfactory one," he said. " And what of this, the 
second. Do you think that God is a wizard and 
capable of manifesting himself by design, now in one 
aspect, now in another, at one time '' himself changing 
and altering his shape in many transformations and 
at another decei\ing us and causing us to beheve 
such things about him ; or that he is simple and 
less likely than anything else to depart from his own 
form ? " "I cannot say oifhand," he replied. " But 
what of this : If anything went out from "^ its own 
form, would it not be displaced and changed, either 
by itself or by something else ? " " Necessarily." 
" Is it not true that to be altered and moved"* by 
something else happens least to things that are in 
the best condition, as, for example, a body by food 

applies it to biology : to yewaiov ian rb fir] i^iaTaixtvov €k ttjs 
avTov 0i(rea;s. Plato's proof from the idea of perfection tiiat 
God is changeless has little in common with the Eleatic 
argument that pure being cannot change. 

•* The Theaetetns explicitly distinguishes two kinds of 
motion, qualitative change and motion proper (181 c-d), but 
the distinction is in Plato's mind here and in CrcUyl. 439 e. 



re /cat ttotojv Kai ttovcov, /cat ttclv cfyvrov vtto 
elXtjaewv re /cat dveixojv /cat tcov toiovtcov Trad-q- 
fidrcDV, ov TO vyilararov /cat laxvporarov i^/ctara 
381 dXXoLovrai ; Hws 8' ov; ^vx^ju Se ov ttjv dv- 
Speiordr-qv /cat (fipovifJLCDrdT'qv tJklctt^ dv ri e^ojdev 
vados rapd^eU re /cat dAAotajcretev; Nat. Kai 
li7]v vov Kai rd ye ^vvdera rrdvra aKevr] re /cat 
OLKoSofi-^fjiaTa /cat dpi(f)ieap,aTa} Kara top avrov 
Xoyov, rd ev elpyaapiiva koL ev ixovra vtto xpovov 
re /cat tcov dXXcov rraOiqjxdTOJV rJKiorTa aAAotourat. 
Effrt St) TavTa. Yidv Srj to /caAto.? ^xov rj (fivaeu rj 
B 'T^Xni '^ diJi(f)OTepoL5 iXax^CTTrjv fiCTa^oXr^v vtt' dXXov 
evhex^Tai. "Eot/cer. 'AAAa pLrjv 6 deos ye /cat Td 
Tov deov TravTT] dpiOTa exet. Ilcbg 8' ov; TavTjj 
liev hi] T^KLCTTa dv TroAAd? p.op(j)d? taxoi 6 deos. 
"H/ctcrra ST^ra. 

XX. 'AAA' dpa avTO? avTov [xeTa^dXXot dv Kai 
aAAoiot; A'qXov, e(f>rj, otl, e'lTrep dAAotourat. Ild- 
Tepov ovv cTrl to ^eXTiov re /cat koXXiov /LterajSdAAet 
eavTov Tj eTTL to ^etpor /cat to atcr;^toi^ iavTov; 
C 'AvdyKT], e^Tj, eirl to x^^pov, ecTrep dAAoiouraf ov 
ydp TTov ivSed ye ^iqaofjiev tov deov KctAAous ^ 
apeTTJs elvai. 'OpOoTaTa, rjv 8' iyco, Xeyeis' Kai 
ovTCOs exovTOs SoKel dv tls ool, w 'ASeifxavTe, 
eKCiiv avTOV x^^P^ TTOielv otttjovv t) ded)V t) dvdpoj- 
TTCov; ^ASvvaTov, e(f>r]. ^ASvvaTOV dpa, e(j)'r]v, Kai 
dech edeXeiv avTov dAAotow, dAA', d>s eoLKe, /cctA- 
AtCTTO? /cat dpiOTOs d)v elg to SvvaTov e/cao-ro? 

^ Kai diJ.(pte<Tjj.aTa H : om. A. 

« Cf. Laws 765 e. 
' rapd^eie suggests the drapa^ia of the sage in the later schools. 



and drink and toil, and plants " by the heat of the 
sun and winds and similar influences — is it not true 
that the healthiest and strongest is least altered ? " 
" Certainly." " And is it not the soul that is bravest 
and most intelhgent, that would be least disturbed *• 
and altered by any external affection ? " " Yes." 
" And, again, it is surely true of all composite im- 
plements, edifices, and habiliments, by parity of 
reasoning, that those which are well made and in 
good condition are least hable to be changed by time 
and other influences." " That is so." " It is uni- 
versally " true, then, that that which is in the best 
state by nature or art or both admits least alteration 
by something else." " So it seems." " But God, 
surely, and everything that belongs to God is in 
every way in the best possible state." " Of course." 
" From this point of \iew, then, it would be least of 
all likely that there would be many forms in God." 
" Least indeed." 

XX. "But would he transform and alter himself?" 
" Obviously," he said, " if he is altered." " Then 
does he change himself for the better and to some- 
thing fairer, or for the worse "* and to something ugher 
than himself ? " " It must necessarily," said he, 
" be for the worse if he is changed. For we surely 
will not say that God is deficient in either beauty or 
excellence." " Most rightly spoken," said I. "And 
if that were his condition, do you think, Adeimantus, 
that any one god or man would of his own will worsen 
himself in any way?" " Impossible," he replied. "It 
is impossible then," said I, " even for a god to wish to 
alter himself, but, as it appears, each of them being 

• Trav Stj generalizes from the preceding exhaustive eniun- 
eration of cases. C'f. 3S2 e, Parmen. 139 a. 

* So .\ristoL Met. 1074 b 26. 



avTcDv jxevei del aTrAaj? iv rfj avrov yL,op(j>fi. 

"Azracra, e^TJ, dvdyKr} efiotye So/cet. Mi^Set? dpa, 

D ')]u S eyco, ct) dpicrre, Xeyerco "qyilv tcov 7TOLr)Ta)i>, cos 

deol ^eivoLCTLV iotKoreg dXXoSaTrolai 
TravTOLoi TeXedovres €7Ti,arpoj(f)Oj(n TToXrjag' 

jjLTjbe UpcoTecos /cat ©ertSos' KaraijjevSecrda) jx-qSeCs, 
/xTjS' iv Tpaycphiais p-rfh^ iv rots dXXoLs TrotTy/xacrti' 
eicrayeVct) "Hpav T^AAotcojiteVryj' at? lepeiav dyei- 

lua^ov Apyeiov TTorafiov TratcrtP' ^loScopois' 

E /cat aAAa roiavra ttoAAo. /xt^ t^/xii' ijjevSeadcoaav' ftr^S' 
au WTTO Tovrcov dvaTTeiOopLCvai at pLrjrepeg Ta rraiSta 
e/cSei/xarowTO)!^, Xiyovaai rovs puvdovs KaKcos, cos 
dpa deoi nves TrepLep^ovrat, vvKTCop ttoXXols pivots 
/cat TTavTohaTToZs IvSaXXofievoc, tva jjLrj a/xa p.ev etf 
deovs pXacTcjiTjpLcocnv, a/xa Se tou? TratSa? aTTepyd' 
^covrai SeiXorepovg. Mrj ydp, e(f>rj. 'AAA' dpa, rji 
S' iyco, avTOL pbev ol deoi elaiu oloi p,r^ pbeTa^dXXecv 
rjplv he TTOLovat SoKelv a(f}ds TravroBaTTOvs (f)aLveadai 
i^anaTcZvTes /cat yorjrevovres ; "IcroJS", e^ry. Tt 
382 Se; tjv S' iyco' ipevheadai, deos edeXoi dv r) Xoyco 
7] epycp (f>dvTaap,a TrpoTeivcov; Ovk otSa, 7) 8' 6?. 
Ou/c olada, rjv S' iyco, on to ye cos dXrjdcos ipevSos, 
el otov re tovto el-nelv, rrdvTes deoi re /cat dv- 
OpcoTTOi fiiaovcTLv; Ilcos, ^(f>f], Xeyeis; Ovtcos, "^v 
8' iyco, OTL ra> KvpicoTarco ttov eavrcjjv ipevBeadat 

" Cf. Tim. 42 e ^fievev, which suggested the Neoplatonic 
and Miltonic paradox that the divine abides even when it 
goes forth. 



the fairest and best possible abides " for ever simply in 
his own form." " An absohrtelj necessary conclusion 
to my thinking." " No poet then/' i said, " my good 
friend, must be allowed to tell us that 

The gods, in the likeness of strangers. 
Many disguises assume as they visit the cities of mortals.'' 

Nor must anyone tell falsehoods about Proteus * 
and Thetis, nor in any tragedy or in other poems 
bring in Hera disguised as a priestess collecting alms 
' for the Hfe-giving sons of Inachus, the Argive 
stream.'** And many similar falsehoods they must 
not tell. Nor again must mothers under the influence 
of such poets terrify their children * with harmful 
tales, how that there are certain gods whose appari- 
tions haunt the night in the likeness of many strangers 
from all manner of lands, lest while they speak evil 
of the gods they at the same time make cowards of 
the children." " They must not," he said. " But," 
said I, " may we suppose that while the gods them- 
selves are incapable of change they cause us to 
fancy that they appear in many shapes deceiving and 
practising magic upon us ? " " Perhaps," said he. 
" Gansider," said I ; " would a god wish to deceive, 
or lie, by presenting in either word or action what 
is only appearance ? " " I don't know," said he. 
" Don't you know," said I, " that the veritable lie, 
if the expression is permissible, is a thing that all 
gods and men abhor ? " " What do you mean ? " 
he said. " This," said I, " that falsehood in the most 

* Od. xvii. 485 486, quoted again in Sophist 216 b-c C/. 
Tim. 41 A. 

* Cf. Od. iv. 456-8. Thetis transformed herself to avoid 
the wooing of Peleus. Cf. Pindar, Nem. iv. 

^ From the Zavrpiai of Aeschylus. 

' Rousseau also deprecates this. 

VOL. I O 193 



Kal 7T€pL TO. Kvpicorara ovSels ckcov edeXcL, aXXa 
TrdvTCov ndXiara (j>o^eZrai e/cet avro KeKrijcrdai. 
Ovbe vvv vco, rj S' 6s, fiavdava). Oiei yap ri p,e, 

B e(f)rjv, aejjLVOv Xeyeiv iyd) Se Xeyco, otl rfj ipv)(fj 
TTcpl TO. ovra ipevSeadal re Kai eipevadai Kal 
dfiaOrj etvaL /cat evravQa ^x^t-v re Kai K€KTrja6ai 
TO iftevdos rrdvreg -^Kt-ara av Se^atvTO Kal jxiaovaL 
fxdXiara avro iv rw rotovrcp. IloAu ye, e^y], 
'AAAo. pir]v opdorard y av, 6 vvv Sr] eXeyov, rovro 
cos dXrjdcbs ifjevSos KaXoZro, rj ev rfj ihvxfj dyvoia 
rj rod ei/jevapLevov ertel ro ye ev rols Xoyois jxi- 
p^rjjjid ri rov iv rfj ipvxfj earl TTa6rjp.aros Kal 

C varepov yeyovos etBcoXov, ov rrdw aKparov ifjevSos. 
Tj ovx ovra)s; Yldvv p,ev ovv. 

XXI. To [xev Srj TO) ovri ipevSos ov jxovov vtto 
decov dXXd Kal vtt^ dvOpcoTTCov puGelraL. AoKel pboi. 
Ti Se S-q; ro ev rols Xoyois ijjevhos rrore Kal rw 
Xprjoip^ov, ujare pi,rj d^iov elvai piiaovs; dp* ov 
TTpos re rovs noXepilovs, Kal rcov KaXovfieva)v 
(f>iXcov orav Sta jxaviav rj rLva dvoiav KaKov ri 
e7Tt;)^eipct;crt Trpdrreiv, rore dTTorpoirrjs eveKa ws 

I) (f)dpp,aKov ;\;/3T7cri/xov' yiyverai; Kal ev ats vvv Sr) 
eXeyo/xev rals pivdoXoyiais Std ro (jltj elSevat, otttj 
rdXrjdes exec Trepl rcov iraXaicov, d(f>op,OLOVvres rco 
aXrjOel ro ipevSog 6 ri p-dXiara ovrco XPV^^P'OV 
TTOLOvfiev; Kal jxdXa, ^ S' os, ovrcos e^ei. Kara 
ri hrj ovv rovrcov rco deep ro ipevSos XRV^''^-^^) 

" Cf. Aristot. De Interp. i. 1-2 icm nh oZ'v to. ev rrj ^wvri twv 
iv T-Q V"^x5 Tra6r]fj.dTui> avfj-jioXa. Cf. also Cratyl. 428 D, infra 
535 E, Laws 730 c, Bacon, Of Truth: "But it is not the 
lie that passes through the mind but the lie that sinketh in 
and settleth in it that doth the hurt." 

* Cf. Phaedr. 245 a fxvpia tCiv iraXaiuiv Ipya Kocfj-oiaa toih 



vital part of themselves, and about their most vital 
concerns, is something that no one wilhngly accepts, 
but it is there above all that everyone fears it." " I 
don't understand yet either." " That is because you 
suspect me of some grand meaning," I said; "but 
what I mean is, that deception in the soul about 
realities, to have been deceived and to be blindly 
ignorant and to have and hold the falsehood there, is 
what all men would least of all accept, and it is in 
that case that they loathe it most of all." " Quite so," 
he said. " But surely it would be most wholly right, 
as I was just now saying, to describe this as in very- 
truth falsehood — ignorance namely in the soul of 
the man deceived. For the falsehood in words is a 
copy" of the affection in the soul, an after-rising image 
of it and not an altogether unmixed falsehood. Is 
not that so ? " " By all means." 

XXI. " Essential falsehood, then, is hated not only 
by gods but by men." " I agree." "But what of 
the falsehood in words, when and for whom is it 
serviceable so as not to merit abhorrence ? Will 
it not be against enemies ? And when any of 
those whom we call friends owing to madness or 
folly attempts to do some •WTong, does it not then 
become useful to avert the e\il — as a medicine ? 
And also in the fables of which we were just now 
speaking owing to our ignorance of the truth about 
antiquity, we liken the false to the true as far as we 
may and so make it edifying.^ " " We most certainly 
do," he said. " Tell me, then, on which of these 
grounds falsehood would be serviceable to God. 
iiri-^L-yvoiJjetiovs irat5ei)ei, Isoc. xii. 149 and Livy's Preface. 
For xP^'M-ov cf. Politicus 274 e. We must not infer that 
Plato is trying to sophisticate away the moral virtue of 



TTorepov Bia to firj elSevai ra TraAatd d(f>ofjLoia)v av 
ipevSoLTo; TeXoiov jxevr^ dv eir], €(f)r). IlotrjTrjs 
fxev apa iftevS-qs iv dew ovk evt,. Ov fxoi SokcI. 
E 'AAAa SeStcoj Tovg ix^povs ifsevSoLTo; IloAAoi; ye 
Set. 'AAAa St' oIkclcov avotav rj fxaviav; 'AAA' 
onsets', €(f)-q, Tcbv dvo-qrcov /cat fiaivofievcov 9eo(f>iXrjs. 
Ovk dpa eariv ov eveKa dv deos ipevSoLTO. Ovk 
ecTTiv. Yldvrr) dpa dipevSeg to Sacnoviov re /cat 
TO Oelov. narTaTTaat fxev ovv, e(f)r]. Ko/xtS7y apa 
d deos aTrXovv /cat dXrjdes ev t€ epyo) /cat iv Xoyo), 
/cat ouTe auTO? fxedlaTaTac ovre aAAoy? e^aTrara, 
ovre Kara (jiavraalas ovre Kara Xoyovs ovre /cara 
383 arjixetcov TTOjJiTras, ovd VTrap ovt ovap. OuVo)?, e^ry, 
CjLtotye /cat avro) (^aiverat. aov Xeyovros- Suy^^oipet? 
apa, ecjiTjV, rovrov Bevrepov tvttov etvai' iv a) Set 77ept 
^ecDv /cat Xeyeiv /cat Trotetv, to? fit^re avrovs yorjras 
ovras TO) fji€Ta^dXXeiv iavTovs p-rfre ^qfids i/jevSeai 
TTapdyeiv iv Xoyto ^ iv epycv; ^vyxojpdj. FIoAAd 
apa 'Op.7jpou iTTatvovvres dXXa tovto ovk irr- 
aiveaofMeda, r-qv rov ivvrrvlov TTOfXTTrjv vtto Aioj 
to) 'Aya/xe/xt'oi'f ouSe Atap^yAou, drav (jyfj -q Qiris 
B Tov 'AttoAAoj iv Tot? auT^? ydjiOLs dSovra 
ivhareladai, rag eds euTratSta?, 
voacDV T dTTeipovs /cat fiaKpaicovas ^iovg. 
^vixTTavrd r eLTTCJV Oeo^tXelg ijxdg tv^o-s 
TTaidv* iTrev(f)iqiJir]aev , evdvjjiiov ijxi. 
Kdyd) TO ^oi^ov delov dipevBes crTo/xa 
-qXTTtl^ov elvai, fjiauTLKfj ^pvov Tex^rj. 

" Generalizing after the exhaustive classification that 

' II. ii. 1-34. This apparent attribution of falsehood to 
Zeus was an " Homeric problem " which some solved by a 



Would he because of his ignorance of antiquity make 
false Ukenesses of it ? " " An absurd supposition, 
that," he said. " Then there is no lying poet in 
God." " I think not." " Well then, would it be 
through fear of his enemies that he would He ? " 
" Far from it." " Would it be because of the folly 
or madness of his friends ? " " Nay, no fool or 
madman is a friend of God." " Then there is no 
motive for God to deceive." " None." " So from 
every point of view ^ the diWne and the divinity are 
free from falsehood." " By all means." " Then God 
is altogether simple and true in deed and word, and 
neither changes himself nor deceives others by 
visions or words or the sending of signs in waking 
or in dreams." " I myself think so," he said, " when 
I hear you say it." " You concur then," I said, 
" in this as our second norm or canon for speech 
and poetry about the gods, — that they are neither 
wizards in shape-shifting nor do they mislead us 
by falsehoods in words or deed ? " "I concur." 
" Then, though there are many other things that we 
praise in Homer, this we ^nll not applaud, the 
sending of the dream by Zeus ^ to Agamemnon, nor 
shall we approve of Aeschylus when his Thetis " avers 
that Apollo, singing at her wedding, ' foretold the 
happy fortunes of her issue ' — 

Their days prolonged, from pain and sickness free. 
And rounding out the tale of heaven's blessings. 
Raised the proud paean, making glad my heart. 
And I believed that Phoebus' mouth divine. 
Filled w ith the breath of prophecy, could not lie. 

change of accent from dlSofiev to SiSdney. Cf. Aristot. Poetics 
1 i6l a 22. 
" C/. Aeschyl. Fray. 350. Possibly from the 'OxXwr cp^tf. 



o 8', avTos viiva)v, avros iv doivrj rrapcov, 
avTos raS' €LTra)V, avros icrriv 6 Kravwv 
rov TratSa tov i^iov. 

C orav Tig roiavra Xeyj] Ttepl decov, ■)(aXeTTavovixev t€ 
/cat -)(op6v ov Sioaofiev, ouSe tous" dthaaKaXovs 
idaofxev inl TraiSeta -^^prjcrOaL twv vioiv, €i [xeX- 
Xovacv rjfjLiv ol cjivXaKes deoae^els re koL detoi 
yiyveadai, Kad^ ocrov dvdpcoTTa) cttI TrXeiarov otov 
T€. UavroLTTaaLv, €(f}rj, eyojyc roiis rvirovs rov- 
Tovs crvyx(Jopa) /cat ca? vofiois dv )(pa)p.r]v. 



But he himself, the singer, himself who sat 
At meat \*ith us, himself who promised all, 
Is now himself the slayer of my son. 

When anyone says that sort of thing about the 
gods, we shall be wroth with him, we will refuse him 
a chorus, neither will we allow teachers to use him 
for the education of the young if our guardians are to 
be god-fearing men and god-like in so far as that 
is possible for humanity." " By all means," he said, 
" I accept these norms and would use them as canons 
and laws." 


386 !• Ta fjL€v S-q TTepl deovs, rjv 8* eyw, TOiavr 
arra, cos eoiKev, aKovariov re Koi ovk aKovareov 
€v6vs eK TTaihojv roZs deovs re TLixtjaovai, /cat 
yoveas ttjv re dAAr^Acuv (fnXiav fir) irepl afiiKpov 
TTOiTjcrofievois. Kai otfiai y', e(f)r), opdats rjfJLiv 
<j>aLveadai. Tt 8e Siy; el fxeXXovcriv elvat dvhpeloL, 
dp ov Tavrd re XeKTeov /cat ota avrovs TTOirjaat 

B TjKLara rov ddvarov hehievai; "q r^yel rivd ttot av 
•yeveaOai dvSpelov, e^ovra iv avrcp tovto to Set/Lta; 
Ma Ata, rj S' os, ovk eyojye. Tt Se; rdv "AtSoy 
"qyovjxevov elvai re koX heivd etvai otet, rivd davdrov 
dSerj eaeaOat /cat ev rats fxdxdts atprjaeadaL Trpo 
tJtttjs re Kal SovXetas ddvarov; Ov^afxaJS' Aei 
B-q, cos eoiKev, rjpids e-niararelv /cat Trepl rovrtov 
TOW fjLvdcov roLS eTTLxeipovai Xeyeiv, /cat Seta^at fXT] 
XoiSopelv aTrXcos ovrcos rd ev "AtSou, dXXd jxdXXov 

C enatvelv, d)s ovr* dXrjdfj Xeyovras ovr co^eXifxa 
rols fieXXovai fjuax^p-ois eaeadai. Aet jxevroi, e(f>7]. 

" We may, if we choose, see here a reference to the virtue 
of piety, which some critics fancifully suppose was eliminated 
by the Euthyphro. Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, note 58. 

* For the idea that death is no evil cf. Apology, in fine, 


T. " Concerning the gods then," said I, " this is the 
L t of thing that we must allow or not allow them to 
hear from childhood up, if they are to honour the gods* 
and their fathers and mothers, and not to hold their 
Iriendship with one another in light esteem." " That 
was our view and I beheve it right." " WTiat then 
uf this ? If they are to be brave, must we not 
extend our prescription to include also the sayings 
that will make them least hkely to fear death ? 
Or do you suppose that anyone could ever become 
brave who had that dread in his heart ? " " No 
indeed, I do not," he rephed. " And again if he 
beheves in the reahty of the underworld and its 
terrors,^ do you think that any man will be fearless 
of death and in battle will prefer death to defeat 
and slavery ? " " By no means." " Then it seems 
we must exercise supervision " also, in the matter of 
such tales as these, over those who undertake to 
supply them and request them not to dispraise in 
this undiscriminating fashion the hfe in Hades but 
rather praise it, since what they now tell us is neither 
true nor edifying to men who are destined to be 
warriors." " Yes, we must," he said. " Then," 

Laws 727 d, 828 d, and 881 a, where, however, the fear of 
hell is approved as a deterrent. 
« C/. 377 B. 



E^aAeii/'o/i.ei' apa, '^v S' eyco, oltto rovSe rov 
eiTovs ap^afxevoi Trdvra to, Toiavra, 

^ovXoifjLTjv K CTTapovpos iojv drjTevefjiev ctAAo) 
au8pl Trap' olkX^pco . . . 

7] irdaiv veKveacrt Kara(j>dipiivoLaLV dvdaaetv 
/cat TO 

D OLKia 8e durjTolaL /cat d^amrotat (fiavetrj 

cr/zepSaAe", evpcoevra, rd re aTvyeovai deoi rrep' 


(X) TTOTTOi, rj pd Ttj ecTTt /cat €tv 'AtSao hopLOiaL 
tpv)^rj Kal elBcoXov, drdp (j)p4v€s ovk evi TrdjXTrav 

Kal TO 

otcp 7T€TTVva9at, ral 8e cr/ciai dtaaovai' 

" Spoken by Achilles when Odysseus sought to console 
him for his death, Od. xi. 489-491. Lucian, Dialog. Mort .18, 
develops the idea. Proclus comments on it for a page. Cf. 
Matthew Arnold's imitation in " Balder Dead " : 
Hermod the nimble, gild me not my death ! 
Better to live a serf, a captured man. 
Who scatters rushes in a master's hall 
Than be a crown'd king here, and rule the dead ; 
Lowell, " After the Burial " : 

But not all the preaching since Adam 
Has made death other than death ; 
Heine, Das Buck Le Grand, chap. iii. ; Education of Henry 
Adams : " After sixty or seventy years of growing astonish- 
ment the mind wakes to find itself looking blankly into the 
void of death . . . that it should actually be satisfied would 
prove . . . idiocy." Per contra, cf. Landor: 

Death stands beside me whispering low 
I know not what into my ear. 
Of his strange language all I know 
Is, there is not a word of fear ; 



said I, " beginning x^ath this verse we will expunge 
everything of the same kind : 

Liefer were I in the fields up above to be serf to another 
Tiller of some poor plot which yields him a scanty sub- 
Than to be ruler and king over all the dead who have 

and this : 

Lest unto men and immortals the homes of the dead be 

Horrible, noisome, dank, that the gods too hold in abhor- 
and : 

Ah me ! so it is true that e'en in the dwellings of Hades 
Spirit there is and wraith, but within there is no under- 

and this : 

Sole to have wisdom and wit, but the others are shadowy 

and the passage of the Cratylus 403 d, exquisitely rendered 
by Ruskin, Time and Tide xxiv. : " And none of those who 
dwell there desire to depart thence — no, not even the sirens ; 
but even they the seducers are there themselves beguiled, 
and they who lulled all men, themselves laid to rest — they 
and all others — such sweet songs doth death know how to 
sing to them." 

* II. XX. 64. SetVas ij.t] precedes. 

* II. xxiii. 103. The exclamation and inference {'pa) of 
Achilles when the shade of Patroclus eludes his embrace in 
the dream. The text is endlessly quoted by writers on 
religious origins and dream and ghost theories of the origin 
of the belief in the soul. 

^ Od. x. 495. Said of the prophet Teiresias. The pre- 
ceding line is. 

Unto him even in death was it granted by Persephoneia. 

The line is quoted also in Meno 100 a. 




ifjvxr) 8' CK pedecov Trrafjievr) "AiSoaSe ^ejS^/cei, 
ov TTorixov yoocoaa, Aittouct' dvSpoTrjra /cat rj^-qv 

387 Kal TO 

ipvx'Tj Se Kara ■)(dov6s, rjvre Kairvo?, 
aJp^ero rerpiyvta' 

(hs S' ore vvKreplSes t^^x^ dvrpov OeaTrecrioio 
rpit,ovaai TTOTeovrai, iiTei /ce tls dTTOTTecrrjatv 
opfiadov e/c TrdTprjs, dvd t dXh-qX-Qaiv exovrai, 
COS" ctt rerpiyvlaL dp, -rjeaav. 

B raura /cat rd rotaura iravra TrapaiTrjaopLeQa 
"Opirjpov re /cat rous" aAAou? TTOtrjTds p.r] ;YaAe7rat- 
vetv ai' SLaypd(f)a)p,ev, ovx to? oi5 TTOtrjTiKa /cat 
T^Sea Tot? 77oAAots' a/coueiv, dAA' oaco TToi-qriKioTepa, 
roaovTcp rJTTOv dKovareov rraial /cat avhpaaiv, ovs 
Set iXevdepovs elvai, SovXelav davdrov p,dXXov 
TT€<j)0^rjp.evovs . naj^TaTraCTt jLtev ovv. 

II. OvKovv eVt /cat to. 77ept ravra ovop^ara 
Trdvra rd Seivd re /cat (f}0^epd dirofiXrirea, kcokv- 

C Toyj T€ /cat CTTuyas" /cat ivepovs Kal dXi^avras , /cat 

" Said of the death of Patroclus, 11. xvi. 856, and Hector, 
xxii. 382 ; imitated in the last Hne of the Aeneid " Vitaque 
cum gemitu fugit indignata sub umbras," which is in turn 
expanded by Masefield in "August 1914." Cf. Matthew 
Arnold in " Sohrab and Rustum " : 

Till now all strength was ebb'd and from his limbs 
Unwillingly the spirit fled away. 
Regretting the warm mansion which it left, 
And youth, and bloom, and this delightful world; 



and : 

Forth from his limbs unwilling his spirit flitted to Hades, 
Wailing its doom and its lustihood lost and the May of its 

and : 

Under the earth like a vapour vanished the gibbering soul,* 

and : 

Even as bats in the hollow of some mysterious grotto 
Fly with a flittermouse shriek when one of them falls from 

the cluster 
Whereby they hold to the rock and are clinging the one to 

the other, 
Flitted their gibbering ghosts." 

We will beg Homer and the other poets not to be 
angry if we cancel those and all similar passages, 
not that they are not poetic and pleasing ** to most 
hearers, but because the more poetic they are the 
less are they suited to the ears of boys and men who 
are destined to be free and to be more afraid of 
slavery than of death." " By all means." 

II. " Then we must further taboo in these matters 
the entire vocabulary of terror and fear, Cocytus * 
named of lamentation loud, abhorred Styx, the flood 
of deadly hate, the people of the infernal pit and of 

Bacchyl. v. 153-4: 

TTvfiaTOP S^ irviwv BdKpvffa T\d/}p 
d7\adi' ^jSa;' TrpoXeiiruv. 
" Cf. II. xxiii. 100. 

* Od. xxiv. 6-10. Said of the souk of the suitors sJain by 
Odysseus. Cf. Tennyson, " Oenone " : 

Thin as the bat-like shrillings of the dead. 
"* Cf. Theaetet. 177 c ovk d-riSiffTepa 6.Koieiv. 
' >iilton's words, which I have borrowed, are the best 
expression of Plato's thought. 



aAAa oaa rovrov rod tvttov ovofxa^oixeva ^piTTetv 
St) TToiei oaa erif Trdvras rovs oLKovovras. Kal 
laois €u e;)^et irpos aXko tl- rjfjiels 8e inrep rcbv 
(j}vXa.KO}v (f)0^oviJieda, fxr) e/c rrjs roiavTTjs (ftpiK-qs 
depfxorepot Kal pbaXaKcorepoi rod Sdovros yevwvrai 
7]pZv. Kat opdcos y , ^^V' ^ojSou/ze^a. 'A(^- 
acperea dpa; Nai. Tov 8e evavriov tvttov tovtois 
XcKTeov T€ /cat TTOcqreov; A'^Aa Bij. Kal tovs 

D oSvpfjiovs dpa i^aiprjaonev /cat rovs olktovs rovg 
rwv iXXoyLfjLCJV dvSpcov; ^AvdyKt), e^-q, elirep Kal 
rd TTporepa. S/co77et 817, rjv S eyco, et opddJs 
i^aipT^crofiev t) ov. (f)afJL€V 8e S-q, otl 6 eTvtet/n^s' 
dvr)p rep CTTtet/cet, ovTrep /cat eratpos iari, rd 
redvdvai ov Seivov rjyTJaerat. ^afxev yap. Ovk 
dpa VTTcp y cKetvov cus" Beivov tl TrevovOorog 
oSupotr' dv. Ov Srjra. AAAct fxrjv Kal roSe 
Xeyofiev, d)S 6 roiovros fidXtara avros avrw avr" 

E dpKTjs TTpds rd ev t^fjv, /cat Sta^epovTCu? rcov dXXwv 
■qKiara irepov Trpoahelrai. ^AXr]drj, '^^'T). "H/cto-r' 
ap' avro) Setvov areprjdrjvai vleos "^ dSeXc/iov r] 

1 oVa Itt] is a plausible emendation of Hermann, referring 
to annual recitations of rhapsodists and performances of 
tragedy. The best mss. read ilis okrai, some others ws otov re. 
Perhaps the words are best omitted. 

" (ftplTTBiv and (}>piKr) are often used of the thrill or terror 
of tragedy. Cf. Soph. El. 1402, O.T. 1306, Aeschyl. 
Prom. 540. 

" Some say, to frighten the wicked, but more probably 
for their aesthetic effect. Cf. 390 a d 5i riva aWrjv i]dov7]v 
Trap^X^'"' Laws 886 c ei fiiv et's &\\o tl KaXws ij nr; koXQs ^x^'- 

« dep/j-drepoi contains a playful suggestion of the fevei 



the charnel-house, and all other terms of this type, 
whose very names send a shudder " through all the 
hearers every year. And they may be excellent for 
other purposes,*" but we are in fear for our guardians 
lest the habit of such thrills make them more sensi- 
tive '^ and soft than we would have them." " And we 
are right in so fearing." " We must remove those 
things then ? " " Yes." " And the opposite t\-pe 
to them is what we must require in speech and in 
verse ? " " Ob\-iously." " And shall we also do 
away with the wailings and lamentations of men of 
repute ? " " That necessarily follows," he said, 
" from the other." " Consider," said I, " whether 
we shall be right in thus getting rid of them or not. 
What we affirm is that a good man '^ will not think 
that for a good man, whose friend he also is, death 
is a terrible thing." "Yes, we say that." "Then 
it would not be for his friend's « sake as if he had 
suffered something dreadful that he would make 
lament." " Certainly not." " But we also say this, 
that such a one is most of all men sufficient unto 
himself ■'^ for a good life and is distinguished from 
other men in having least need of anybody else." 
" True," he replied. " Least of all then to him is 

following the chill; cf. Phaedr. 251 a. With fiaXaKurrepoi 
the image passes into that of softened metal ; cf. 41 1 b. Laics 
666 B-c, 671 B. 

•* That only the good can be truly friends was a favourite 
doctrine of the ancient moralists. C/. Lysis 214 c, Xen. 
Mem. ii, 6. 9, 20. 

' Cf. Phaedo 117 c "1 wept for myself, for surely not 
for him." 

' aLiTdpKr]s is the equivalent of iKavbi avrcf in I/ysis 215 a. 
For the idea rf. Menex. 247 e. Self-sufficiency is the mark 
of the good rnan, of God, of the universe (2'im. 33 d), of 
happiness in Aristotle, and of the Stoic sage. 



Xpr)[xdTa)v -q dXXov rov ToJv tolovtcov. "H/ctCTra 
fievTOi. "Hkictt' dpa /cat oSvperat, ^epet^ Se d)s 
TTpaorara, orav rt? avrov roiavTH] ^vpi^opa Kara- 
Xd^T]. IToAu ye. ^Opdcos a/a' dv i^acpolfiev rovs 
dpiqvovs Tcbv 6vo[xaarTa)v dvhpcbv, yvvai^l 8e airo- 
388 StSot/xef, /cat ouSe Tayrat? (T77oy8atatS', /cat ocrot 
/ca/cot Tcav di^Spajv, iva tj/juv hva)(epaLvaicnv opLOia 
rovTois TTOielv ovs S"*^ (f)afX€v im <j}vXaKfi rrjs p^oJpa? 
rpe(j)eLV. ^Opdcbs, €(l)rj. YidXiv 8rj 'Ofi'qpov re 
Serjaofieda /cat tcov dXXtov ttolt^tcvv [xrj TTOielv 
'A^i'XXea Beds TTotSa 

ctAAor' inl TrXevpds KaraKeifJievov, dXXore S' ay re 
V7TTLOV, aAAore Be Trprjvfj, 

Tore S' opdov dvaardvra 

a>t4ovT aAvovr errt (7iv aAo? arpvyeroLO, 

B /xr^Se d[icf)or€pr]aL )(epaLv eXovra koviv atdaXo- 
eaaav x^vajxevov /ca/c Ke(f)aXrjs, /xT^Se aAAa /cAai- 
ovTct re /cat oSvpopievov, oaa /cat oia e/cetvos 
eTToi-qae' [xrjhe Hpiafiov iyyvs decbv yeyovora 
XLTavevovrd re /cat /cyAtvSd/xevov' /cara Kovpov, 

i^ovofxaKXTjSrjv ovopidt^ovr dvSpa eKaarov. 

^ ddiperai, ^^pet] this conjecture of Stallbaum reads more 
smoothly : the mss. have 65vp€<rdai (pepeiv. 

" Cf. the anecdotes of Pericles and Xenophon and the 
comment of Pater on Marcus Aurelius in Marius the 
Epicurean. Plato qualifies the Stoic extreme in 603 e. The 
Platonic ideal is fj^Tpioirddeia, the Stoic airddeia, 

» Cf. 398 E. 


it a terrible thing to lose son " or brother or his wealth 
or anything of the sort." " Least of all." " Then 
he makes the least lament and bears it most 
moderately when any such misfortune overtakes 
him." " Certainly." " Then we should be right 
in doing away with the lamentations of men of note 
and in attributing them to women,** and not to the 
most worthy of them either, and to inferior men. in 
order that those whom we say we are breeding 
for the guardianship of the land may disdain to act 
like these." "We should be right," said he. "Again 
then we shall request Homer and the other poets not 
to portray Achilles, the son of a goddess, as, 

Lying now on his side, and then again on his back. 
And again on his face,' 

and then rising up and 

Drifting distraught on the shore of the waste unharvested 

nor as clutching with both hands the sooty dust and 
strewing it over his head,* nor as weeping and 
lamenting in the measure and manner attributed to 
him bv the poet ; nor yet Priam/ near kinsman of the 
gods, making supplication and rolling in the dung. 
Calling aloud unto each, by name to each man appealing. 

• The description of Achilles mourning for Patroclus, II, 
xxiv. 10-12. C/. Juvenal iii. 279-280: 

Noctem patitur lugentis amicum 
Pelidae, cubat in faciem mox deinde supinus. 

* //• xxiv. 12. Our text of Homer reads divei-effK d\iWi» 
irapa div dX6j, ov5i fiiv ijois. Plato's text may be intentional 
burlesque or it may be corrupt. 

' //. xviii. 23-34. When he heard of Patroclus's death. 
f Jl. xxii. 414-415. 
VOL. I p 209 


TToXv 8' en Tovrojv fidXXov Serjaofxcda ji'qTOi dcovs 
ye TTOielv oBvpofievovs /cat XeyovTas 

C cjfJLOL ey<h beiXij, to/xot SvaapLaroroKeLa' 

€L 8 oSv deovs, fi'qTOi rov ye fjiiyiaTov rwv decov 
ToXfirjaai ovtcos dvojjLOLcos ixip-iqaaadai, coare' co 
TTOTTOi, (f>dvaL, 

rj ^iXov dvSpa SicoKoixevov rrepl durv 
o<f)daXpiOLaLV opcbpuai, ifxov 8' oXo(f)vpeTat rJTop' 


at at iywv, ore fxoi Tiap7Tr)86va <j>iXraTOV dvhpcjv 
D //.ot/D* VTTo YlarpoKXoLO MevotTtaSao Saprjvai. 

III. Et yap, CO (f>iXe 'ASelpLavre, rd roLavra rjfuv 
ol vioi OTTovSij dKovoL€v /cat [XT) KarayeXcpev a>? 
dva^Lcos XeyofxevcDV, crxoXfj dv iavrov ye Tt? dv- 
dpojTTOv ovra dva^Lou -qytjaaLro rovrcov /cat ein- 
TrX'Q^eiei', el /cat evLoi, avro) roiovrov t) Xeyeiv r] 
TTOielv, dXX ovhev alaxw6p.evos ovhe Kaprepcbv ttoX- 
Xovs €7tI apLiKpotai TTaOrjjxaaL Oprjvovs dv aSot /cat 
E ohvpixovs. ^ AXrjOeoTaTa, e(f)r), Xeyeig. Aet 8e ye 
ovx> d)s dpri -qpuv 6 Xoyog eaiqpLaLvev cb ireiaTeov, 
ecu? dv TLS '^p-dg dXXo) koXXlovl TreLar). Ov yap 
ovv 8el. 'AAAd p.7]v ouSe (fiiXoyeXojrds ye 8et 

» Thetis in II. xviii. 54. " Cf. 377 e. 

" //. xxii. 168. Zeus of Hector. 

"* //. xvi. 433-434. Cf. Virgil's imitation. Am. x. 465 ff., 
Cicero, Be Div. ii. ch. 10, and the imitation of the whole 
passage in Matthew Arnold's " Balder Dead." 

* I nave imitated the suggestion of rhythm in the original 
which with its Ionic dative is perhaps a latent quotation 
from tragedy. Cf. Chairemon, oiiSeis iirl crfiiKpoiffi Xvirelrai 
(To<p6i, N.-^ fr. 37. 


And yet more than this shall we beg of them at 
least not to describe the gods as lamenting and 

Ah, woe is me, woeful mother who bore to my sorrow the 
and if they will so picture the gods at least not to 
have the effrontery to present so unlikely a likeness * 
of the supreme god as to make him say : 

Out on it, dear to my heart is the man whose pursuit 
around Troy-town 

I must behold with my eyes while my spirit is grieving 
within me,' 
and : 

Ah, woe is me ! of all men to me is Sarpedon the dearest. 

Fated to fall by the hands of Patroclus, Menoitius' off- 
spring. ■* 

III. " For if, dear Adeimantus, our young men 
should seriously incline to listen to such tales and 
not laugh at them as unworthy utterances, still less 
Ukely would any man be to think such conduct 
unworthy of himself and to rebuke himself if it 
occurred to him to do or say anything of that kind, 
but without shame or restraint full many a dirge 
for trifles would he chant* and many a lament." 
" You say most truly," he replied. " But that must 
not be, as our reasoning but now showed us, in 
which we must put our trust until someone convinces 
us with a better reason." " No, it must not be." 
" Again, they must not be prone to laughter.^ For 

' The ancients generally thought violent laughter un- 
dignified. Cf. Isoc. Demon. 15, Plato, Laws 732 c, 935 b, 
Epictet. Encheirid. xxxiii. 4, Dio Chrys. Or. 33. 703 R. Diog. 
Laert. iii. 26, reports that Plato never laughed excessively in 
his youth. Aristotle's great-souled man would presumably 
have eschewed laughter {Eth. iv. 8, Rhet. 1389 b 10), as Lord 
Chesterfield advises his son to do. 



ett'ttt. CT;^eSoi' yap orav tls ^4"''fi ^^X^P^ ylXcori, 
laxvpav Kal ixera^oXrjv t,r)T€L to toiovtov. AoKet 
/Ltot, e^^. Ovre dpa dvdpcoTTOVs d^iovs Aoyou 
389 KparovfjLevovs vtto yeXcoTOs dv Tt? TTotfj, arro- 
BeKTeov, TToXv 8e rJTTOV, idv deovg. IloAy fxevroi, 
iq o OS. UvKovv Up,rjpov ovoe ra roiavra \aTTO- 
Se^ofxeda rrepl ^ecup-], 

da^earos S' a/a' ivcbpro yeXcos fiaKapecrai Oedlcnv, 
(OS tbov "H^aicrror Sta Scofiara TTonrvvovra, 

ovK aTToSeKTeov Kara tov aov Xoyov. Et av, €(f>r], 

B ^ovXcL ifjLov TiOevac- ov yap ovv Srj dTTobeKreov. 

AAAa fxrjv Kal dXi]d€tdv ye TTCpl ttoXXou TTOirjTeov. 

et yap opdcos iXeyofxev dprt Kal rco ovn deoXai fxav 

dxprjcrrov i/jevSog, dvdpcoTTOLS Se ;(p7^at/xov d)s iv 

(fyappiaKov etSet, SrjXov, otl to ye roiovrov larpols 

Soreov, ISicoraLS 8e ovx drrreov. ArjXov, e^y]. 

ToLs dpxovai St] rrjs TToXeojs e'lTrep rialv dXXoLs 

TTpoai^KeL if/evSeadaL fj TToXepuioiv "q ttoXitcov eve/ca 

en (x)(j)eXeLa rrjs TToXecog- rols Se aAAot? ndatv ovx 

C arrreov tov toiovtov, dXXd rrpos ye 8r) tovs tolov- 

Tovs dpxovTas IhicjoTT] ^evaaadai TavTov Kal ixell,ov 

dpLapTrjfia cjjrjaoiJiev fj KafivovTi. Tvpos carpov r] 


"In 563 E Plato generalizes this psychological principle. 

'' This laughter of the Homeric gods has been endlessly 
commented upon. Hegel allegorizes it. Mrs. Browning 
(" Aurora Leigh ") says : 

And all true poets laugh unquenchably 
Like Shakespeare and the gods. 

Proclus, In Rempub. i. 127 Kroll, says that it is an expression 
of the abundance of the divine energy. It is a commonplace 
repeated by George Eliot that the primitive sense of humour 


ordinarily when one abandons himself to \-iolent 
laughter his condition provokes a %"iolent reaction." " 
" I think so," he said. " Then if anyone represents 
men of worth as overpowered by laughter we must 
not accept it, much less if gods." " Much indeed," 
he repUed. " Then we must not accept from Homer 
such sayings as these either about the gods : 

Quenchless then was the laughter'' that rose from the 

blessed immortals 
When they beheld Hephaestus officiously puffing and 


— ^we must not accept it on your ^^ew.'' " " If it 
pleases you to call it mine," he said ; " at any rate 
we must not accept it." " But further we must 
surely prize truth most highly. For if we were right 
in what we were just saying and falsehood is in 
very deed useless to gods, but to men useful as a 
remedy or form of medicine,'* it is ob\ious that such 
a thing must be assigned to physicians, and laymen 
should have nothing to do with it." " Ob\'iously," 
he replied. " The rulers then of the city may, if 
anybody, fitly lie on account of enemies or citizens 
for the benefit * of the state ; no others may have 
anything to do with it, but for a laj-man to lie to 
rulers of that kind we shall affirm to be as great a 
sin, nay a greater, than it is for a patient not to tell 
his physician or an athlete his trainer the truth 

of the Homeric gods laughs at the personal deformity of 
Hephaestus, but they really laugh at his officiousness and the 
contrast he presents to Hebe. Cf. my note in Class. Phil. 
xxii. (1927) pp. 222-223. 

' Cf. on 334 D. ' Cf. 382 d. 

* Cf. 334 B, 459 D. A cynic might compare Cleon's plea 
in Aristoph. Knights 1226 ^70; S" fK\eirTov ex' dya6i2 ye t§ 
TToXd. Cf. Xen. Mem. ii. 6. 37, Bolingbroke, Letters to 
Pope, p. 1 72. 



acofiaros TTaOyjixaTiov ^rj rdX-qdrj Xeyeiv, 'q Trpos 
KV^epvTJrrjv Trepl rrjg vecog re Kal toji' vavTcbv pnq 
ra ovra Xeyovri, orrcos r) avro? jj rig riov ^vv- 
vavrcx)v Trpd^ecos e'xei. 'AXrjdearara, e<f>r]. *Av 
D dp' dXXov Tivd XapL^avT) ifjevSofxevov iv Trj ttoXcl 
Tcbv ot St] fxLovpyol eaai, 

fxdvTiv T] lr]Trjpa kukcov ^ reKrova Sovpojv, 

KoXdaei (hs iTTLT-qSevfia clcrdyovra rroXetog axjTrep 
vecjg dvarpeiTTLKov re Kai oXedpiov. Eai^ ye, tj 
8' OS, €771 ye Xoyo) epya TeXrJTat. Ti 84; aa}(f)po- 
avvTjs apa ov Sei^cret rjixlv tols veaviais; Ylcos S 
oij ; Jlw(f)poauyrjg 8e co? rrX-qdei ov rd rocdoe 
/xeyicrra, dpxdvTOJV p,kv vTTrjKoovg elvai, avrovs 8e 
E dpxovras tojv Trepl ttotovs Kal d^pohiaia Kai Trepi 
ehcoZd? rjhovcov; "E^otye So/cet. Ta hr] Toidhe 
<j)rjao}xev, olfxat,, KaXojs Xeyeadac, ota Kal 'O/xi^/ao) 
Aiofi-qS-qs Xiyei, 

rerra, ohotttj rjao, e/xo) 8' eTnTreWeo jjivvu), 

Kal rd TOVTCov ixdfieva, rd 

[laav jxevea Trveiovres *Axo.ioC] 
oiyfj SetSiore? ay]p.dvropas, 

390 Kal oaa dXXa roiavra. KaAcD?. Tt 8e; ra roiaSe 

" Od. xvii. 383-384. Jebb, Homer, p. 69. 

* The word is chosen to fit both ship and state. Cf. 
434 E, 442 B : and Alcaeus apitd Aristoph. Wasps 1235, Eurip. 
Phoen. 888, Aeschines iii. 158, Epictet. iii. 7. 20. 

" That is, probably, if our Utopia is realized. Cf. 452 a 
et irpd^eTai. ^ X^yerai. Cf. the imitation in Epistles 357 a 
elirep ^pya ^nl vi^ iyiyvero. 

** For the mass of men, as distinguished from the higher 



about his bodily condition, or for a man to deceive 
the pilot about the ship and the sailors as to the 
real condition of himself or a fellow-sailor, and how 
they fare." " Most true," he replied. " If then 
the ruler catches anybody else in the city lying, any 
of the craftsmen 
Whether a prophet or healer of sickness or joiner of 

he will chastise him for introducing a practice as 
subversive ''and destructive of astate as it is of a ship." 
" He \n\\," he said, " if deed follows upon word.<^ " 
" Again, will our lads not need the \-irtue of self- 
control ? " "Of course." " And for the multitude "* 
are not the main points of self-control these — to be 
obedient to their rulers and themselves to be rulers * 
over the bodily appetites and pleasures of food, 
drink, and the rest ? " "I think so." " Then, I 
take it, we will think well said such sayings as that 
of Homer's Diomede : 

Friend, sit down and be silent and hark to the word of my 

and what follows • 

Breathing high spirit the Greeks marched silently fearing 
their captains," 

and all similar passages." " Yes, well said." " But 
what of this sort of thing ? 

philosophical virtue. Often misunderstood. For the mean- 
ings of (rij<ppo<Ti'VTj cf. my review of Jowett's Plato, A. J. P. 
vol. xiu. (1892) p. 361. Cf. Unity of Plato's Thouffht, 
p. 15 and n. 77. 

* In Gorg. 491 d-e, Callicles does not understand what 
Socrates means by a similar expression. 

' II. iv. -112. Diomede to Sthenelos. 

* In our Homer this is //. iii. 8, and criyy kt\. iv. 431. 
See Howes in Uarvard Studies, vi. pp. 153-237. 



olvo^apes, Kvvos o/JLixar^ ^X^^> xpo.^^'^v S' iXd(f)oio 

/cat ra tovtcov i^rjs 3,pa KaXws, /cat oaa ctAAa ri? 
€V Aoyoj ^ iv TTOtTjcret etprj/ce veavtevfxara tStcoTcor 
et? dpxovrag; Ov /caAaj?. Oj) yap, ot^Ltat, et? ye 
aiO(j)pouvvr]v veots eTnrrjSeia OLKOveiv et 8e rti^a 
dXXrjv rjSovrjv TTapex^rai., OavfxaaTov ovhiv rj ttcvs 
aoi ^atVerat; Ovrcos, ecfy-q. 

IV. Ti 8e; TTOLGLV dvhpa rov aof^cLraTOV Ae- 
yoi'Ttt, cu? 8o/cet awTo) /caAAtcrTOV eti^at volvtojv, 
orav TTapaTrXetaL coat rpaTre^at 

B airov /cat Kpeicov, p^edv S' e'/c Kprjrrjpos a.(f)V<j(JO}V 
olvoxoos (l)oper}cn /cat eyx^^J] SeTrdeaai, 

So/cet CTOt eTTtTrjSetov ett-at Trpos ey/cpareiai^ eavrov 
o.KO'ueLV vecp; i] to 

XijjLcp S ot/CTtcTTOi' davieiv /cat TTOTfxov iTTiaTTelv; 

ri Ata, Kadevhovrojv raJv dXXcuv deaJv re /cat 
dvdpioTTCov /cat pLOVos eyprjyopo)^ a i^ouXevaaro, 
C TOUTCuv' navrajv pabtajs einXavdavoixevov Sta tt^j' 
Toit' di^poSiaricov eTTidvpLiav, /cat ovrcos eKTrXayevra 
ISovra rrjv "Hpav, cScrre /x^S' et? to hcop,driov 
edeXeiv eXdeiv, dAA auTOU ^ovX6p,€vov ;^a^at ^yy- 
ytyvecrdai, /cat Xeyovra cos ovrcos vtto eTTidvpiias 
ex^Tai, cos ov8 ore ro rrpcorov e(f)oiroiv Trpos 

" II. i. 225. Achilles to the commander-in-chief. Aga- 
memnon. Several lines of insult follow. 

* Cf. Philebus 42 c. " Cf. Gorgias 482 c. 

'' Odysseus in Od. ix. 8-10. For TrapawXeiai the Homeric 
text has irapa 8^ irXijOua-i. Plato's treatment of the quotation 



Heavy with wine with the eyes of a dog and the heart of 
a fleet deer," 

and the lines that follow,* are these well— and other 
impertinences " in prose or verse of private citizens 
to their rulers ? " " They are not well." " They 
certainly are not suitable for youth to hear for the 
inculcation of self-control. But if from another 
point of view they yield some pleasure we must not 
be surprised; or what is your view of it ? " " This," 
he said. 

IV . " Again, to represent the wisest man as saying 
that this seems to him the fairest thing in the world, 

When the bounteous tables are standing 
Laden with bread and with meat and the cupbearer ladles 

the sweet wine 
Out of the mixer and bears it and empties it into the 


— do you think the hearing of that sort of thing will 
conduce to a young man's temperance or self-control ? 
or this : 

Hunger is the most piteous death that a mortal may suffer.* 

Or to hear how Zeus^ lightly forgot all the designs 
which he de\'ised, awake while the other gods and 
men slept, because of the excitement of his passions, 
and was so overcome by the sight of Hera that he 
is not even wilUng to go to their chamber, but wants 
to lie \\-ith her there on the ground and says that 
he is possessed by a fiercer desire than when they 
first consorted with one another, 

is hardly fair to Homer. Aristotle, Pol. 1338 a 28, cites it 
more fairly to illustrate the use of music for entertainment 
(8taya>y^). The passage, however, was liable to abuse. See 
the use made of it by Lucian, Parasite 10. 

• Od. xii. 342. / II. xiv. 294-341. 



(f)LXovs Xijdovre roKrjas; 

ovSe "Apecos re kol 'A(/)pohirrjs vtto 'H^aicrToy 
SeafjLOV 8t' erepa roiavra. Ov p,a tov Ata, rj 8' og, 
D ov fjioi, (^atVerat eTTLT-qSetov. 'AAA' et ttov nveg, 
rjv 8' iyo), Kaprepiat npos aTravra /cat Xiyovrai 
Koi TTpdrrovrai vtto iXXoyijjuov di'Spojv, deareov re 
/cat OLKovareov, olov /cat ro 

arrjdos Se irXirj^as KpaSlrjv rjvnraTTe fxvdcp' 
rerXadt Srj, Kpahir]' /cat Kvvrepov dXXo ttot* erXyj^. 

UavraTTaat, jxev ovv, etjir]. Ov p-kv Srj ScopoSoKovs 
ye iardov elvat rovs dvSpas ovSe (/)iXoxp'f}P'dirovs. 
E OvSap,cos- Oi)8' aareov aurot? ort 

Sojpa deoijs Treidei, Scop atSotous' ^aaiXTJas' 

ovhe TOV TOV 'Ax^'XXeajs TraiBaycoyov OotVt/ca 
irraLveTeov , cos pLeTptcos eXeye avp^ovXevcov avTco 
Sctjpa piev Xa^ovTL inapvveiv toIs ^A)(aLoXg, dvev hk 
hojpcov prj 0.77 aXXoLTTead at Trjg pL-qvios. ouS' avTOV 
TOV 'A;^tAAea d^Lcoaopev ou8' opboXoyqaopev ovtco 
(f)LXo)(prjpaTov elvai, cocrre Trapa tov 'Ayapepvovos 
Scbpa Xa^elv, /cat Tipirjv av Xa^ovTa veKpov oltto- 
391 Aueiv, aAAco? 8e ^17 deXeiv. Ovkovv 8t/caior ye, 
€(f)r], iiraLveXv to, rotaura. ^Okvco Se ye, -^v 8' 
eyo), 81' "Opirjpov Xeyeiv, otl ovSi* oaiov rauTct ye 
Kara 'Ap^iAAe'aj? ^dvai /cat aAAcov XeyovTcov Tret- 
Beadai, /cat ay ct*? 77p6s" top' 'AttoAAo} €L7T€v 

" Od. viii. 266 ff. 

'' May include on Platonic principles the temptations of 
pleasure. Cf. Laws 633 d. Laches 191 d-e. 

" Od. XX. 17-18. Quoted also in Phaedo 94 d-e. 

** Suidas s.v. BQpa says that some attributed the line to 



Deceiving their dear parents. 
Nor will it profit them to hear of Hephaestus 's fettering 
of Ares and Aphrodite ** for a like motive." " No, 
by Zeus," he said, " I don't think it will." " But 
any words or deeds of endurance in the face of all 
odds * attributed to famous men are suitable for our 
youth to see represented and to hear, such as : 

He smote his breast and chided thus his heart, 

' Endure, my heart, for worse hast thou endured.' • " 

" By all means," he said. " It is certain that we 
cannot allow our men to be acceptors of bribes or 
greedy for gain." " By no means." " Then they 
must not chant : 

Gifts move the gods and gifts persuade dread kings.** 
Nor should we approve Achilles* attendant Phoenix * 
as speaking fairly when he counselled him if he 
received gifts for it to defend the Achaeans, but 
without gifts not to lay aside liis wrath ; nor shall we 
think it proper nor admit that Achilles ^ himself was 
so greedy as to accept gifts from Agamemnon and 
again to give up a dead body after receiving 
payment" but otherwise to refuse." " It is not 
right," he said, " to commend such conduct." " But, 
for Homer's sake," said I. " I hesitate to say that it is 
positively impious * to affirm such things of Achilles 
and to believe them when told by others ; or again 
to beh'eve that he said to Apollo 

Hesiod. Cf. Eurip. Medfa 964, Ovid, Ars Am. iii. 653, 
Otto, Sprichw. d. R<}m. 233. 

« See his speech, 77. ix. 515 ff. 

' Cf. II. xix. 278 ff. But Achilles in Homer is indifferent 
to the gifts. 

' //. xxiv. 502, 555, 594. But in 560 he does not explicitly 
mention the ransom. * Cf. 368 b. 



e^Xa^ds fx eKaepye, decuv oXowTare rravrajv 
rj a av TiaaL/jLrjv, ec fioi, Swa/xt? ye Trapeirj' 

B Kal CO? TTpos Tov TTorafxov, Oeov ovra, OLTreiOws elx^ 
KaL fjiaxeordai erotpiog -qv /cat av ras rov erepov 
TTorafiov UTTepx^Lov Upas rptxag 

UarpoKXa) rjpto'C, €(f>r], Kofjurjv OTraaai/xi (f)ep€adai, 

v€Kpcp ovTL, Kal COS cS/jaffe tovto, ov Treiariov. 
TOLS re av "E/cropo? eX^eis Trepl to aijfjia to Ila- 
TpoKXov Kai TOLS Tojv t,coyprjd€VT(ov CTciayas" els ttjv 
TTvpdv, ^vfiTTavTa TavTa ov <j)rjaop,ev dXyjOrj elprj- 

C adaL, ovh idaojxev Treideadai rovs rjixeTcpovs (Jos 
Axi-XXevs, Oeds cov irals Kal YirjXews, aax^poveaTd- 
Tov Te KaL Tpirov diro Ato?, Kal vtto tco CTo^coraTO) 
Xetpcovt Te9pa[jLfxevos, ToaavTTjs r^v Tapax^js vXecos, 
oiOT ex^i-v iv avTO) voa-q/xaTe hvo ivavTLO) dXXrjXoLV, 
dveXevdepLav fieTOL cfiLXoxprjfxaTLas Kal av inrep- 
rj(f)avLav dedJv t€ Kal dvOpcoTTCov 'OpddJs, ^<f>f]j 

V. Mt^ tolvvv, Tjv 8' eyco, /xrySe raSe TreLdcofxeOa 
/XT^S' idjfiev XeyeLv, d>s Q-qaevs YloaeLScovos vlos 

D IleLpLdovs Te Alos a)pixriaev ovtws eirl Setvaj 
apvayds, /xrjSe tlv' dXXov deov nalSd Te Kat, -qpo) 

" n. xxii. 15. Professor Wilamowitz uses dXoiirare to 
prove that Apollo was a god of destruction. But Menelaus 
says the same of Zeus in //. iii. 365. Cf. Class. Phil. vol. iv. 
(1909) p. 329. 

" Scamander. II. xxi. 130-132. 

" //. xxiii. 151. Cf. Proclus, p. 146 KroU. Plato ex- 
aggerates to make his case. The locks were vowed to 
Spercheius on the condition of Achilles' return. In their 
context the words are innocent enough. 

" II. xxiv. 14 ff. ' II. xxiii. 175-176. 



Me thou hast baulked, Far-darter, the most pernicious of 

all gods, 
Mightily would I requite thee if only my hands had the 


And how he was disobedient to the river,^ who was 
a god, and was ready to fight ^^^th him, and again 
that he said of the locks of his hair, consecrated to 
the other river Spercheius : 

This let me give to take with him my hair to the hero, 

who was a dead body, and that he did so we must 
not believe. And again the trailings ** of Hector's 
body round the grave of Patroclus and the slaughter * 
of the living captives upon his pyre, all these we 
will affirm to be lies, nor will we suffer our youth to 
believe that Achilles, the son of a goddess and of 
Peleus the most chaste ^ of men, grandson ' of Zeus, 
and himself bred under the care of the most sage 
Cheiron, was of so perturbed a spirit as to be affected 
with two contradictory maladies, the greed that 
becomes no free man and at the same time over- 
weening arrogance towards gods and men." " You 
are right," he said. 

V. " Neither, then," said I, " must we believe this 
or suffer it to be said, that Theseus, the son of 
Poseidon, and Peirithoiis, the son of Zeus, attempted 
such dreadful rapes,'' nor that any other child of a 

' Proverbially. Cf. Find. l^em. iv. S^, v. 26, Aristoph. 
Clouds 1063, and my note on Horace iii. 7. 17. 

' Zeus, Aeacus, Peleus. For the education of Achilles by 
Cheiron <•/. II. xi. S3-2, Pindar, Nem. iii., Eurip. LA. 926-927, 
Plato, Hipp. Miji&r 371 d. 

* Theseus was assisted by Peirithoiis in the rape of Helen 
and joined Peirithoiis in the attempt to abduct Persephone. 
Theseus was the theme of epics and of lost plays by 
Sophocles and Euripides. 



roXixrjaai. av heiva kol aae^rj epydaaadai, ota vvv 
Karai/jevSovrai, avruiv aAAa TrpoaavayKo.t.CDiiev 
rovg TTOnqras r} fJir) tovtcov avra epya (f)dvai r] 
rovTOvg firj elvaL deojv Tralbas,€pa Se fJLT] 
Xdyeiv, fiTj^e ripZv eTn)(€ipeZv Treideiv rovs viovs, 
d)s ol deol KaKo. yevvcocn, Kal rjpcjes dvdpcoTTCov 
■t" ovSev ^eXriovs. oTrep yap iv rots' vpoadev eAe- 
yofjiev, ovd^ ocrta ravra ovt dXrjdij- eTreSetfaftev' 
ydp 7TOV, OTL CK deixiv KaKO. yiyveadai dhvvarov. 
ITaj? ydp ov; Kai fX'qv rols ye aKovovai jSAajSepa* 
7ra? ydp iavrco ^vyyvcopLrjv e^et KaKw ovti, irei- 
adels (hs dpa roLavra TrpdrrovJi re /cat eTrparrov /cat 

ol Oecbv dyx^cTTTopoi, 
"ZjTjvos iyyvs, Sv /car ISaXov ndyov 
Aio? TTarpcpov ^cofxo? ear iv aWepi, 
Kal ov 7T(x) a^LV i^lrrjXov alpbi SaLpiovcov. 

(x)V ev€Ka TTavareov rovs roiovrovs p-vdovs, /xr^ r^/xtv 
392 TToXXrjv ev^epeiav evriKrcoai rots veois TTOvr]pias- 
K.opLi,8fj p.ev ovv, €(f)r]. Tt ovv, '^v S eycu, ert 
XoLTTOV elSos Xoyoiv rrept, opt^opievois olovs re 
XeKreov /cat pLrj; rrepl ydp dedju cLs Set Xeyeadai 
etpjjrai, /cat Trepl Saipiovcov re /cat -qpojcov /cat rdjv 
iv "AlSov; Ilai^Li p,ev ovv. Ovkovv /cat jrepl dvdpcx)- 
TTOiV rd XoLTTOV eirj av; ArjXa 817. 'ABvvarov 
Stj, a> (f)tXe, rjpLLV rovro ye iv rw Trapovri ragai. 
I\.d)s; "On ot/xat rjpids ipelv, (hs dpa Kai TToirjraL 
■D /cat XoyoTTOLol /ca/ccDy Xeyovai Trepl dvdpcoTTOJV ra 

" Plato was probably thinking of this passage when he 
wrote the last paragraph of the Critias. 
" From Aeschylus's Niobe. 
' Cf. my note in Class. Phil. vol. xii. (1910) p. 308. 



srod and hero would have brought himself to accom- 
plish the terrible and impious deeds that they now 
falsely relate of him. But we must constrain the 
poets either to deny that these are their deeds or 
that they are the children of gods, but not to make 
both statements or attempt to persuade our youth 
that the gods are the begetters of evil, and that 
heroes are no better than men. For, as we were 
saying, such utterances are both impious and false. 
For we proved, I take it, that for e\il to arise from 
gods is an impossibility." "Certainly." " And they 
are furthermore harmful to those that hear them. 
For every man will be very lenient with his own 
misdeeds if he is convinced that such are and were 
the actions of 

The near-sown seed of gods. 
Close kin to Zeus, for whom on Ida's top 
Ancestral altars flame to highest heaven. 
Nor in their life-blood fails " the fire divine.* 

For which cause we must put down such fables, lest 
they breed in our youth great laxity ^ in turpitude." 
" Most assuredly." " What type of discourse remains 
for our definition of our prescriptions and proscrip- 
tions } We have declared the right way of speaking 
about gods and daemons and heroes and that other 
world?" "Wehave." "Speech, then, about men would 
be the remainder." " Ob\iously." " It is impossible 
for us, my friend, to place this here.'* " " Why ? " 
" Because I presume we are going to say that so it 
is that both poets and writers of prose speak wrongly 
about men in matters of greatest moment, saying 

'' Or possibly " determine this at present." The prohibi- 
tion which it would beg the question to place here is made 
explicit in Tjgws 660 £. Cf. Laws 899 d, and supra .S64 b. 



fxeyLara, on elalv aSt/coi fiev, evSaifjioves Se ttoAAo/, 
BiKaiot, Be aOXioL, /cat cos XvcnreXel to aSt/cetV, iav 
Xavddvrj, 17 8e 8i/<:aiocri;i^ dAAorptov /u.ei' dya^dt', 
ot/ceta 8e t,7]jxia' /cat rd /uei' rotaura dTrepeti' Ae- 
yeiv, TO. 8' ivavria tovtcov vpoard^eLV aSeii' re 
/cat fivdoXoyeXv •^ ou/c otet; Eu /tei' ow, €(f)r], 
otSa. OyKow edi' ofXoXoyfjs 6pda)<; fie Xeyeiv, 
(fyT^aco ae (hfioXoyrjKevaL d TzdAat t,T]roviJiev ; 

C ^Opdajs, e(f)r], vireXa^eg. Ou/cow Trepi dvdpcvTTCOv 
OTi rotovTovs Bel Xoyovs Xeyeadai, Tore 8t- 
ofioXoyrjao/jieda, orav evpcufjiev, olov eari 8i/cato- 
avvrj, /cat (hs (f)vaei XvatreXovv to) exovrt, edv re 
BoKjj edv T€ firj tolovtos etvai; 'AAT^^eWara, ecfir]. 
VI. Td fiev Brj Xoycov Trepi e)(^eTCx} reXos, to Be 
Xd^ecos, COS eyatjxaL, pLerd tovto OKeineov, /cat rjpuv 
d T€ XeKreov /cat (hs XeKreov iravreXcos iaKeifierai,. 
/cat d *ABeLjj.avTos, Tovto, rj 8' os, ov pavddvco o 

D Tt Xeyeis. 'AAAd pLevroi, rjv 8' iyco, Set ye. tcrcu? 
ovv' r^8e p,dXXov etaet. dp ov TrdvTa, baa vtto 
pLvdoXoyoiv ri ttoltjtojv Xeyerai, BL-qy-qaLS ovaa 
TvyxdveL iq yeyovoTOJV iq ovtcov t] peXXovTCvv; Tt 
ydp, ecfyrj, dXXo; *Ap' ovv oi3;^t tJtol aTrXfj Bi-qyT^aei 7] 
Bid fiLpL-qaecos ycyvopLevr) ^ 8t' dp,(f)OTepo}v Trepai- 
vovaiv; Kat tovto, tj 8' ds, ert 8eoyLtat aa^earepov 
jxadeiv. TeXolos, rjv 8* eyco, eot/ca StSdcr/caAos" 

" \6yu)v here practically means the matter, and Xe^ewy, 
which became a technical term for diction, the manner, as 
Socrates explains when Adeimantus fails to understand. 

" Cf. Aristot. Poet. 1449 b 27. 

* All art is essentially imitation for Plato and Aristotle. 
But imitation means for them not only the portrayal or 
description of visible and tangible things, but more especially 
the communication of a mood or feeling, hence the (to a 
modern) paradox that music is the most imitative of the arts. 


that there are many examples of men who, though 
unjust, are happy, and of just men who are ^^Tetched, 
and that there is profit in injustice if it be concealed, 
and that justice is the other man's good and your 
own loss ; and I presume that we shall forbid them to 
say this sort of thing and command them to sing and 
fable the opposite. Don't you think so ? " " Nay, 
I well know it," he said. " Then, if you admit that 
I am right, I will say that you have conceded the 
original point of our inquiry ? " " Rightly appre- 
hended," he said. " Then, as regards men that 
speech must be of this kind, that is a point that 
we will agree upon when we have discovered the 
nature of justice and the proof that it is profitable 
to its possessor whether he does or does not appear 
to be just." " Most true," he replied. 

VI. " So this concludes the topic of tales." That 
of diction, I take it, is to be considered next. So we 
shall have completely examined both the matter 
and the manner of speech." And Adeimantus said, 
" I don't understand what you mean by this." 
" Well," said I, " we must have you understand. 
Perhaps you will be more Ukely to apprehend it 
thus. Is not everything that is said by fabulists or 
poets a narration of past, present, or future things ? " 
" What else could it be ? " he said. " Do not they 
proceed ^ either bv pure narration or by a narrative 
that is effected through imitation,'' or by both ? " 
" This too," he said, " I still need to have made 
plainer." " I seem to be a ridiculous and obscure 

But Plato here complicates the matter further by sometimes 
using imitation in the narrower sense of dramatic dialogue 
as opposed to narration. An attentive reader will easily 
observe these distinctions. Aristotle's Poetics makes much 
use of the ideas and the terminology of the following pages. 
VOL. I Q 225 


etvai Kal daacfj-qg. waTrep ovv ol ahvvaTOi Xeyeiv, 
E ov Kara oXov aAA' arroAa^cov fxepos ri Treipdao^iai 
aoL €v Tovro) S7]Xa)aai o ^ovXoyLai. Kai fioi eiVe* 
eTTLaracrai ttjs lAtaSos to, Trpcora, iv ots 6 ttoi7]T7]s 
(f)r)ai Tov fxev ^pva'qv SelaOat, rov ^ Ayayicjxvovos 
aTToXvaai ttjv Ovyarepa, rov Be x^XeTraiveLV, tov 
393 8e, eTTecSrj ovk irvyxo-ve, Karevx^adai rojv 'AxcuoJv 
irpos rov deov; "Eycoye. Otod' ovv on fi^XP'' H'^^ 
rovrcov rcov €7t6jv 

Kal iXiaaero Trdvras 'Axo.i'Ovs, 
ArpetSa 8e [xdXiara Svco, Koap.'qrope Xacbv 

XeyeL re avros 6 Trorjrrjs Kal owS' eTTix^ipei rjixcov 
rrjv Sidvoiav dXXoae rpeTreiv, cos dXAos ns 6 Xeycov 

B rj avros' rd Se fxerd ravra aiOTrep avro's iov 6 
^pvarjg Xeyet Kal Treipdrai rjfxds o n p,dXtara 
TTOirjaai [xr] "OfjLrjpov SoKetv elvai rov Xeyovra 
dXXd rov Upea, Trpea^vrrjv ovra' Kal rrjV d?^T]v 
St] ndaav ax^^dv n ovrco TTeTTolrjrai SLtjyrjaLV Trepi 
re rdJv ev 'IXiw Kal rrepl rcov ev 'lOdKT) /cat oXr) 
Ohvoaeia Tradripidrwv . Ilavu puev ovv, e(f>rj. Ovk- 
ovv Si-^yrjOLs fxev eart Kal orav rds p'qaeis €Kd- 
arore Xeyrj Kal orav rd p,era^v rcov prjaecov; 
Ucbs yap ov; 'AAA' orav ye riva Xeyrj prjatv 

C ws ns dXXos (jov, dp* ov rore op-OLovv avrov 
<f>riaopLev o tl fidXiara rrjv avrov Xe^tv e/caaroj. 

" Socratic urbanity professes that the speaker, not the 
hearer, is at fault. Cf. Protag. 340 e, Phileb. 23 d. 

* Plato and Aristotle often contrast the universal and the 
particular as whole and part. Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought^ 

f). 52. Though a good style is concrete, it is a mark of 
inguistic helplessness not to be able to state an idea in 


teacher," " I said ; " so like men who are unable to 
express themselves I won't try to speak in wholes ^ 
and universals but ■s^ill separate off a particular part 
and by the example of that try to show you my 
meaning. Tell me. Do you know the first lines 
of the Iliad in which the poet says that Chryses 
implored Agamemnon to release his daughter, and 
that the king was angry and that Chryses, failing of 
his request, imprecated curses on the Achaeans in 
his prayers to the god ? " "I do." " You know 
then that as far as these verses, 

And prayed unto all the Achaeans, 
Chiefly to Atreus' sons, twin leaders who marshalled the 

the poet himself is the speaker and does not even 
attempt to suggest to us that anyone but himself 
is speaking. But what follows he delivers as if he 
were himself Chryses and tries as far as may be to 
make us feel that not Homer is the speaker, but the 
priest, an old man. And in this manner he has carried 
on nearly all the rest of his narration about affairs 
in Ilion, all that happened in Ithaca, and the entire 
Odyssey." " Quite so," he said. " Now, it is 
narration, is it not, both when he presents the 
several speeches and the matter between the 
speeches ? " " Of course." " But when he delivers 
a speech as if he were someone else, shall we not 
say that he then assimilates thereby his own diction 
as far as possible to that of the person whom he 

general terms. Cf. Locke, Human Understanding, iii. 10. 27: 
" This man is hindered in his discourse for want of words to 
communicate his complex ideas, which he is therefore forced 
to make known by an enumeration of the simple ones that 
compose them." 
« II. i. 15 f. 



ov av TTpoeLTTTj cu? ipovvra; ^-qcrojJLev tl ydp; 
OvKovv TO ye ofxoiovv eavrov aAAoj rj Kara (fxvvrjv 
7] Kara axrjfia /xt/xetcr^at iariv €K€lvov a> dv rt? 
ofiOLol; Tl IjLT]v; 'Et- Srj rep roiovrcp, wg eoiKev, 
ovTos re /cat ot a'AAot iroirjTal 8ta piprjaecos ttjv 
BLijyr]at.v TTOiovvrai. Yldvv p,ev ovv. Et Se ye 
p^TjoapLov eavTov dTTOKpvTTTOtro 6 TTOLrjTTjs, irdaa 
dv avTcp dvev pupirjaecos rj TToirjais re Kal SLrjyqaLs 
D yeyovvXa elt], tva he pirj eiTrrjs, on ovk av piavdd- 
v€is, o7Taj<; dv tovto yevoiro, eyd) ^pdaoj. el ydp 
'Opiqpos elvcov, on rjXdev 6 \pvar]s rrjs re dvya- 
rpos Xvrpa (f)€pcov Kal LKerr]? tojv 'A;^ai6t)v, pbdXiara 
oe rdjv ^aaiXeiov , puerd tovto pirj d)s ^pvcrrjs yevo- 
pLevos eXeyev, dAA' en d)s "Opiqpos, olad^ otl ovk 
av pLpLTjais '^v dAA' dTrXij Si-^yrjaLg. eip^e S dv 
6t)8e TTCos' cf)pdaoj Se dvev pceTpov ov ydp elpn 
E TTOirjTLKos' eX6d)v 6 tepevs r)v)(^eTO eKeivois p-ev tovs 
Oeovg Sovvai eXovTas ttjv Tpotav avTovs aa)di]vai, 
TTjv Se dvyaTepa ol XvaaL be^apuevovs dnoiva Kal 
rov Qeov alheadevTag. raura Se elirovTos avTOV ol 
pLev dXXoL eae^ovTO Kal crvvrjvovv, 6 Se 'Ayapepivcov 
TjypLatvev evTeXXopuevos vvv re dinevai Kal av9is pirj 
eXdelv, pir) avTcp to re OKrJTTTpov Kal Td tov deov 
GTeppaTa ovk eirapKeaoL' irplv Se Xvdrjvat avTov 
TTJV dvyaTepa, iv "Apyei e(f>r] yiqpdaeiv p-eTd ov- 
dinevaL S' eKeXeve Kal purj epedil,ew, Iva aojs ot/caSe 
394 eXdoL. 6 Se Trpea^vTrjg aKovaas eSetae re /cat 

" In the narrower sense. 

'' Cf. Hazlitt, Antony and Cleopatra: " Shakespeare does 
not stand reasoning on what his characters would do or say, 
but at once becomes them and speaks and acts for them." 

" From here to 394 b, Plato gives a prose paraphrase of 



announces as about to speak ? " " We shall ob- 
viously." " And is not likening one's self to another 
in speech or bodily bearing an imitation of him 
to whom one likens one's self? " " Surely." " In 
such case then, it appears, he and the other poets 
effect their narration through imitation." "Certainly." 
" But if the poet should conceal himself nowhere, 
then his entire poetizing and narration would have 
been accomplished without imitation." And lest 
you may say again that you don't understand, I will 
explain to you how this would be done. If Homer, 
after telling us that Chryses came with the ransom 
of his daughter and as a supphant of the Achaeans 
but chiefly of the kings, had gone on speaking not 
as if made or being Chryses '' but still as Homer, you 
are aware that it would not be imitation but narration, 
pure and simple. It would have been somewhat in 
this wise. I will state it without metre for I am not 
a poet : " the priest came and prayed that to them 
the gods should gi-ant to take Troy and come safely 
home, but that they should accept the ransom and 
release his daughter, out of reverence for the god ; and 
when he had thus spoken the others were of reverent 
mind and approved, but Agamemnon was angry and 
bade him depart and not come again lest the sceptre 
and the fillets of the god should not avail him. And 
ere his daughter should be released, he said, she 
would grow old in Argos with himself, and he ordered 
him to be off and not vex him if he wished to 
get home safe. And the old man on hearing this 
was frightened and departed in silence, and ha\ing 

II. i. 12-42. Roger Ascham in his Schoolmaster quotes it as 
a perfect example of the best form of exercise for learning 
a language. 



aTT^et (Tcyfj, aTrop^copi^cras" 8e e/c rov crrpaTOTreSov 
TToAAa to) 'Att-oAAcoi'i Tjvx^TO, rds re eTTCovvnias 
Tov deov dvaKaXwv /cat VTrofiifivqaKcov /cat OLTraiTcov, 
€L Tt TTcoTTore ^ iv vacbv oLKohoyiiqaeaLv rf iv lepojv 
Ovaiais€vov Sajp-^aairo- wv 817 X^P''^ 
KaTrjV)(€TO TtCTat rovg A)(atovs to. a. SaKpva rols 
eK€Lvov ^eXeaiv. ovrcos, rjv S eyco, c3 eratpe, 
B dv€V fiijJL'^aecos aTrXij bL-q-yqcns yiyvcTai. Mavdavco, 

VII. M.dvdave tolvvv, rjv S' iyo), ore Tavrrjs av 
evavTia yiyverai, orav Tt? to. rov ttoltjtov tu 
/Ltera^i) rcov p-r^aecov i^aipcov rd a/xot^ata KaraXeiTTT). 
Kat TOVTO, €(1)7], jxavOdvco, otl ecrrt ro rrepl ra? 
TpaycpSlag tolovtov. 'Opdorara, €(l)rjv, UTreAajSe?, 
/cat olfial aoL TJSrj SrjXovv o efivpoaOev ovx olos t' 
'qv, OTL T'fjg TTOLrjaecos T€ Kal /JLvdoXoyias rj p.ev hid 

C fjitfx'^aecos oXrj iarlv, (Lairep au Xeyeis, rpaycphia 
re /cat KOipuphia, rj 8e §t' aTrayyeAia? avrov tov 
7TOtr]Tov- evpois 8 dv avTrjv pidXioTd ttov ev 
StdvpdfM^oLs- r] 8' au 8t' djx^oT€pojv ev re rrj tcov 
eTTCJv TTOi-qaei, rroXXaxov Se /cat dXXodi, et /itot 
fjiavddveis- 'AAAd ^vvLrjut,, €<f>r], o t6t€ i^ovXov 
Xeyeiv. Kai to tt/jo tovtov Srj dvafivrjcrdrjTL, otl 
e^apuev, d fxev XcKreov, rjdr) elprjadaL, (hs 8e 
XeKriov, ctl aKerrreov elvaL. AAAd ix4pivr]p.aL. 

D ToL>To TOLvvv avTO rjv o eXeyov, otl XP^^V ^'■" 
OfxoXoyqGaadaL, rroTepov idaofiev tovs 7TOLr]Tds /it- 
fjLOVpLevovs rjfjLLV rds SLTjyrjoreLS TTOLcladaL, rj rd 
fM€V fjLLfjLOVfjuevovs, Ta 8e /XT], /cat OTTOia e/cctTepa, •^ 

" The dithyramb was technically a poem in honour of 
Bacchus. For its more or less conjectural history cf. 
Pickard-Cambridge, Dithyramb, Tragedy and Comedy. 



gone apart from the camp he prayed at length to 
Apollo, invoking the appellations of the god, and 
reminding him of and asking requital for any of his 
gifts that had found favour whether in the building 
of temples or the sacrifice of victims. In return for 
these things he prayed that the Achaeans should 
suffer for his tears by the god's shafts. It is in this 
way, my dear fellow," I said, " that -without imitation 
simple narration results." " I understand," he said. 
VII. " Understand then," said I," that the opposite 
of this arises when one removes the words of the poet 
between and leaves the alternation of speeches." 
" This too I understand," he said, " — it is what 
happens in tragedy." " You have conceived me 
most rightly," I said, " and now I think I can make 
plain to you what I was unable to before, that there 
is one kind of poetry and tale-telhng which works 
wholly through imitation, as you remarked, tragedy 
and comedy ; and another which enaploys the recital 
of the poet himself, best exemphfied, I presume, in 
the dithyramb " ; and there is again that which 
employs both, in epic poetry and in many other places, 
if you apprehend me." " I understand now," he 
said, " what you then meant." " Recall then also the 
preceding statement that we were done with the 
' what 'ofspeech and still had to consider the' how.' " 
" I remember." " What I meant then was just this, 
that we must reach a decision whether we are to 
suffer our poets to narrate as imitators or in part as 
imitators and in part not, and what sort of things in 

Here, however, it is used broadly to designate the type of 
elaborate Greek lyric which like the odes of Pindar and 
Bacchylides narrates a myth or legend with little if any 



oySe fiLfieLaOai. Mavrevofxai,, €(f)7], aKOTrelaOai ae, 
elre TrapaSe^ofieda rpaycpSiav re /cat Kcofxcuhiav et? 
TTjv ttoAlv, etTe Kai ov. Lacos, rjv o eyco' taojs oe 
Kai TrXeioj eVi rovrcov ov yap Srj eycoye ttco olSa, 
aAA OTTT) av 6 Xoyos wcnrep TTvevfxa (f^^pj), ravrrj 
E treov. Kat KaXajg y', €(f)r], Aeyeij. ToSe toivvv, 
d) ASeLjxavTe , ddpei, norepov fiijJirjTLKOvs 'qp.'iv Set 
elvai Tovs cf)vXaKas r) ov; ■^ /cat tovto rot? 
ep-TTpoadev eTverai, ort els eKaaros ev fxev av 
€Tnrri^evp.a /caAco? evrtTr^Seuot, 77oAAa 8' ou, aAA 
ei TOVTO eTTLX^tpo'L, TToXXaJv e(f>aTrTop.evos iravTOiv 
diTOTvyxoLvoi av, wot' elvai ttov iXXoyifios ; Tt 8 
oj) yLte'AAet; Oi5/cow /cat Trept pupiiqaews o avTOS 
Aoyos", ort TToAAa o auTO? fJUfxeladai ev ayairep iv 
ov SvvaTos; Ov yap ovv. ^x^^V ^P^ eTrtrrjSeuCTet 
395 ye Tt d'/ta roii' a^ioiv Xoyov eTTLTTqhevp.a.TCov /cat 
77oAAd jiLjjLiqaeTai /cat ecrrat [xifirjTLKo?, errei ttov 
ovSe TO, SoKovvTa iyyvs dAAT^Acoi' etv-at §uo yupir]- 
fxaTO^ SvvavTai, ol avTol afxa ev jXLjJieLaOat, otov 
KcopLcpSlav /cat Tpaya>hiav TTOiovvTeg. t] ov /xt/x7^- 
jLtara dprt tovtcd e/cctAets"; "Eyajye* /cat dXrjOij ye 
Xeyets, ort oi) Swa^rat ol avToi. Ovhe pirjv 
paipcpSoi ye /cat VTTOKpiTal dfxa. 'AXrjdrj. AAA 

1 fj.i/j,TifiaTa is more euphonious: some mss. and editors 
read fufirifiare. 

" Again in the special limited sense. 

'' This seems to imply that Plato already had in mind the 
extension of the discussion in the tenth book to the whole 
question of the moral effect of poetry and art. 

' Cf. Theaetet. 172 d. But it is very naive to suppose 
that the sequence of Plato's argument is not carefully 
planned in his own mind. Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, 
p. 5. 


each case, or not allow them to imitate " at all." 
" I di\ine," he said, " that you are considering 
whether we shall admit tragedy and comedy into 
our city or not." " Perhaps," said I, " and perhaps 
even more than that.** For I certainly do not yet 
know myself, but whithersoever the wind, as it were, 
of the argument blows,'' there lies our course." 
" Well said," he replied. " This then, Adeimantus, 
is the point we must keep in view, do we Avish our 
guardians to be good mimics or not ? Or is tliis 
also a consequence of what we said before, that each 
one could practise well only one pursuit and not 
many, but if he attempted the latter, dabbling in 
many things, he would fail of distinction in all ? " 
" Of course it is." " And does not the same rule 
hold for imitation, that the same man is not able to 
imitate many things well as he can one ? " " No, 
he is not." " Still less, then, will he be able to 
combine the practice of any worthy pursuit with the 
imitation of many things and the quality of a mimic ; 
since, unless I mistake, the same men cannot 
practise well at once even the two forms of imitation 
that appear most nearly akin, as the ^mting of 
tragedy and comedy "*? Did you not just now call 
these two imitations ? " "I did, and you are right 
in saying that the same men are not able to succeed 
in both, nor yet to be at once good rhapsodists * and 
actors." " True. But neither can the same men 

** At the close of the Symposium Socrates constrains 
Agathon and Aristophanes to admit that one who has the 
science {rex^'v) of writing tragedy will also be able to write 
comedy. There is for Plato no contradiction, since poetry 
is for him not a science or art, but an inspiration. 

• The rhapsode Ion is a Homeric specialist who cannot 
interpret other poets. Cf. Ion 533 c. 



B ovoe Toi VTTOKpiTal /cco/zajSot? re Kol rpaycpZotg oi 
avTOL- TTavra 8e ravra /xt/MT^/xara . rj ov; Mi/i7y- 
fiara. Kai ert ye tovtcov, c5 'ASetjuarre, (f>aiv€raL 
{xot €Ls afjitKpoTepa KaraKeKepfxaTiadai, rj rod av- 
6pd)7Tov (f>vaL£, cuctt' ahvvaTos etvai TroAAd KaXcos 
fiLfMelaOai, rj avra iKelva Trpdrreiv, (Lv 8rj Kal to. 
IxipLTiixard iariv dcfio/jLOicofjiaTa. ^AXrjdeaTara, ■^ 
8' OS. 

VIII. Et dpa Tov TTpcDrov Xoyop 8(,aaa>aopi€V, 
Tovs cfivXaKas 7jp.LV Tcov dXXojv TTaaojv Srjpiovp- 

C yicov d(f)€tp,€vovs Selv elvai h-qpnovpyovs iXevde- 
pias TT]s TToXeojs rrdw aKpi^els Kal p,T]Sev oAAo 
€.TnTT]heveiv , 6 tl p,r) et? tovto (f)ep€L, ovhkv 8r] Seoi 
av avTovs dXXo Trpdrreiv ovhe pupeZadaf edv 8c 
piLp.6jvraL, pLjjietadat rd rovroLs TrpoaijKovra evdvs 
CK iraiScov, dvSpetovs, acj^povas, oaiovs, iXevde- 
povs, Kai ra roiavra rrdvra, rd Se dveXevdepa 
fi'^re TTOieiv p,T]re Seivovs etvai p,Lp.riaaad ai, p,r]hk 
dXXo p,7]8ev rwv alaxpdjv, tva p,rj e/c rrjg p.i,p,rja€(x>s 

D rov eivat drToXavacoaiv. r] ovk rjadrjaai, on at 
p,tp.-qa€Ls, edv eV vecor noppco hiareXeaioaiv , els 
edrj re Kal (f)vaiv Kadiaravrai Kal Kard aa)p,a Kai 
^ojvds Kal Kard rrjv Sidvoiav; Kat pdXa, ri S' 6s. 
Ov hrj eTnrpeiJjop,ev, ■^v 8' eyo), Sv (f)ap.ev KrjSeadai 

» Cf. Classical Revieio, vol. xiv. (1900), pp. 201 ff. 
'' Cf. Laws 846e, Montaigne, "Nostra suffisance estdetaill^ 
k menues pieces," Pope, Essay on Criticism, 60: 

One science only will one genius fit, 
So vast is art, so narrow human wit. 

• Cf. the fine passage in Laics 817 b ^^uels iafxev rpaywSlas 
avTol 7roir]Tal, [Pindarj apud Plut. 807 c 5r]fMovpybs fvvojdat 
Kal 5iK7)s. 



be actors for tragedies and comedies " — and all these 
are imitations, are they not ? " " Yes, imitations." 
" And to still smaller coinage ^ than this, in my opinion, 
Adeimantus, proceeds the fractioning of human 
faculty, so as to be incapable of imitating many 
things or of doing the things themselves of which 
the imitations are likenesses." " Most true," he 

VIII. " If, then, we are to maintain our original 
principle, that our guardians, released from all other 
crafts, are to be expert craftsmen of ciWc hberty j"' and 
pursue nothing else that does not conduce to this, it 
would not be fitting for these to do nor yet to imitate 
anything else. But if they imitate they should from 
childhood up** imitate what is appropriate to them* — 
men, that is, who are brave, sober, pious, free and 
all things of that kind ; but things unbecoming the 
free man they should neither do nor be clever at 
imitating, nor yet any other shameful thing, lest 
from the imitation they imbibe the reality.^ Or have 
you not observed that imitations, if continued from 
youth far into life, settle down into habits and 
(second) nature ' in the body, the speech, and the 
thought ? " " Yes, indeed," said he. " We will 
not then allow our charges, whom we expect to 

" Cf. 386 A. 

* i.e., Srjijuovpyots {Kevdepias. 

' Cf. infra 606 b. Lows 656 b, 669 b-c, and Burke, 
Sublime and Beautiful iv. 4, anticipating James, Psychology 
ii. pp. 449, 451, and anticipated by Shakespeare's {Cor. 
m. ii. 123) 

By my body's action teach my mind 
A most inherent baseness. 

' Cf. my paper on 4>iVis, MeX^, 'EriffT^fii], T.A.P.A. 
vol. xl. (1910) pp. 185 ff. 



Kal helv avTov? avSpag dyadovs yeveadai, yvvatKa 
IXLfxeZadai avhpas ovras, rj viav rj Trpea^vrepav, rj 
dvBpl Xoihopovfxevqv iq irpos deovs epit,ovadv re Koi 
fieyaXavxovfiemjv, olofxevr^v evhaipiova elvai, r) ev 
E ^vfjicjiopaXs T€ Kal Trivdecji /cat dp-qvots exop-evT^v 
Kajjivovaav Se t] epcoaav iq dihivovaav ttoXKov koI 
heiqaopev. YiavrdiTaai pikv ovv, rj S' o?. OuSe ye 
hovXas re /cat ^ovXovs TTpdrrovras oaa SovXcov. 
OvSe rovTO. Ov8e ye dvSpas kukovs, d)S eot/ce, 
SeiXovs re /cat rd evavria rrpdrrovrag (Lv vvv Srj 
e'lTTopLev, KaKTiyopovvrds re /cat KCop-coSovvra^ 
dXAT]Xovg /cat ala)(poXoyovvTas, p^edvovras t] /cat 
396 viq(jiovras , r) /cat d'AAa oaa ol roiovroi Kat ev 
XoyoL'S /cat ev epyoLs duaprdvovaiv elg avrovs re 
/cat et? dXXovs' olpai he ouSe pbaivopevoLs ediareov 
a(f)opioLovv avroug ev Xoyois ovS^ ev epyoig. yvco- 
areov pev yap Kal p,acvop.evovs Kal rrovqpovs 
dvSpas re /cat yvvalKag, TTOi-qreov he ovhev rovrwv 
ovhe pLipLTjreov. 'AXrjdearara, e(f>r]. Ti S'; rjv h 
eyco' ;)^aA/ceuo;'Tas" rj n dXXo hrjpiovpyovvras, r) 
eXavvovras rpt-qpeis ^ KeXevovras rovrois, rj ti- 
B dXXo rwv irepl ravra p,Lp,r]reov ; Kat rrajg, e(f)7], 
ots" ye ovhe Trpoaex^i'V rov vovv rovrcov ovhevL 
e^earai; Tt he; ittttovs xpe/xeri^orra? /cat rav- 
povs p,VKO}pevovs Kal 7rorap,ovg i/jo(f)Ovvras Kac 
ddXarrav Krvrrovaav Kal fipovrds Kal Trdvra av ra 
Toiavra "q pupLiqaovrai ; 'AAA' dneip-qrat avrols, 

' Cf. Laws 816 d-e. 

'' For this rejection of violent realism cf. Laws 669 c-d. 
Plato describes precisely what Verhaeren's admirers approve: 
" often in his rhythm can be heard the beat of hammers, the 
hard, edged, regular whizzing of wheels, the whirring of 


prove good men, being men, to play the parts of 
women and imitate a woman young or old \\Tangling 
with her husband, defying heaven, loudly boasting, 
fortunate in her own conceit, or involved in mis- 
fortune and possessed by grief and lamentation — 
still less a woman that is sick, in love, or in labour." 
" Most certainly not," he replied. " Nor may they 
imitate slaves, female and male, doing the offices 
of slaves." " No, not that either." " Nor yet, as it 
seems, bad men who are cowards and who do the 
opposite of the things we just now spoke of, re\iling 
and lampooning one another, speaking foul words in 
their cups or when sober and in other ways sinning 
against themselves and others in word and deed after 
the fashion of such men. And I take it they must 
not form the habit of likening themselves to madmen 
either in words nor yet in deeds. For while know- 
ledge they must have " both of mad and bad men and 
women, they must do and imitate nothing of this 
kind." " >Iost true," he said. " What of this ? " 
I said, " — are they to imitate smiths and other crafts- 
men or the rowers of triremes and those who call 
the time to them or other things connected there- 
with ? " " How could they," he said, " since it 
will be forbidden them even to pay any attention 
to such things ? " " Well, then, neighing horses * 
and lo\\'ing bulls, and the noise of rivers and the 
roar of the sea and the thunder and everj^thing 
of that kind — \^'ill they imitate these ? " " Nay, 

looms, the hissing of locomotives ; oflen the wild, restless 
tumult of streets, the humming and rumbling of dense 
masses of the people " (Stefan Zweig). So another modern 
critic celebrates ** the cry of the baby in a Strauss svmphony, 
the sneers and snarls of the critics in his Helden 'Leben, the 
contortions of the Dragon in Wagner's Siegfried." 



€(f>r], jx-qre fxaiveaOai fXT^re ixaivojxevoig d(f>ofJLOiov- 
adai. Et ap', rjv 8' eyto, fiavOdvco d av Aeyetj, 
ecTTi Tt etSo? Xe^ecog re /cai StTjyTjcrecD?, er a) at* 

C StT^yotro o TO) ovri KaXos KdyaOos, ottotc tl 8eot 
avTOv XeycLV Kal erepov av dvofioiov tovtco etSog, 
ov dv €)(oiTO alel /cat iv cS Str^yotTo o evavTio)? 
€K€LV(x) (f)vs T€ Kal Tpa(f)€Lg. Ilola St], €(f)ri, ravTa; 
*0 fJL€v fiot SoK€L, Tjv 8' iyoi , fJi€TpLos dvijp, eTTeihav 
d(f)LK'r)TaL €V TTJ SLTjy^aei. ivl Xe^iv nvd 'q Ttpd^iv 
dvSpos dyadov, ideXiqaeiv co? avros cov eKeXvos 
aTTayyeXXeiv Kal ovk alaxvveladai ctti rfj Toiavrrj 
/LttjLtT^cret, fxaXiara jxev fiijiovfjievos tov dyadov 

D dcr(f)aXa>s re Kal €fX(f)p6vojs TTpdrrovra, iXdrTCt) oe 
Kal rjTTOV r) vtto voocov tj vtto ipcorcov iacfyaXjxevov 
•^ Kal VTTO jjLedrjs 17 tivos dXXrjs ^vjx^opds' orav 8e 
yiyvrjTai Kara rtva eavrov dvd^tov, ovk ideXrjaeiv 
ottovStj drreLKal^eiv iavrov tw x^ipovi, €t, fxr] apa 
Kara ^pa^v, orav rt ;;^p7j(7Tov TTOtfj, dXX* aLax^- 
veladai, dfia jxkv dyvpivaaros a)v tov fiiixeladai 
Tovs TOiovTOVs, d/xa Se Kal Svax^po-Lvcuv avrov 
iKfidrreLv re Kal iviardvai els rous rdJv KaKiovojv 

E TVTTOVs, dri/xa^CDV rfj hiavoia, o tl [xt] TratSia? 
Xdpiv. KIkos, €(f)r]. 

IX. OvKovv SiT^yT^CTei j^pi^CTerai ota rifiels oXiyov 
TTporepov SirjXdofxev Trepl rd rov 'Ofi'qpov eTrrj, /cai 
earai avrov rj Ae'fis" puerexovaa /xev dp.(f)or€pa)v, 

" Chaucer drew from a misapplication of Tim. 29 b or 
Boethius the opposite moral : 

Who so shall telle a tale after a man, 

He most reherse, as neighe as ever he can, 

Everich word, if it be in his charge. 

All speke he never so rudely and so large ; 



they have been forbidden," he said, " to be mad or 
Uken themselves to madmen." " If, then, I under- 
stand your meaning," said I, " there is a form of 
diction and narrative in which the really good and 
true man would narrate anything that he had to say, 
and another form unlike this to which the man of 
the opposite birth and breeding would cleave and 
in which he would tell his story." " What are these 
forms ? " he said. " A man of the right sort, I think, 
when he comes in the course of liis narrative to 
some word or act of a good man will be wilhng 
to impersonate the other in reporting it, and will 
feel no shame at that kind of mimicr}', by preference 
imitating the good man when he acts steadfastly 
and sensibly, and less and more reluctantly when he 
is upset by sickness or love or drunkenness or any 
other mishap. But when he comes to someone 
unworthy of himself, he will not wish to liken himself 
in earnest to one who is inferior," except in the few- 
cases where he is doing something good, but ^v^ll 
be embarrassed both because he is unpractised in 
the mimicry of such characters, and also because he 
shrinks in distaste from moulding and fitting himself 
to the types of baser things. His mind disdains 
them, unless it be for jest.'' " " Naturally," he said. 
IX. " Then the narrative that he will employ will be 
of the kind that we just now illustrated by the verses 
of Homer, and his diction will be one that partakes 

Eke Plato sayeth, who so can him rede. 

The wordes most ben cosin to the dede. 

* Plato, like Howells and some other modern novelists, 

would have thought somewhat gross comedy less harmful 

than the tragedy or romance that insidiously instils false 




fiifx-qaecos re Kal Trjg dTrXrjs^ SLrjyijaeojs, ajxiKpov Se 
Ti (xdpos iv voXXcp Xoyo) rrjg jjufji-^aecos' ^ ovhev 
\iyco; Kat jxaXa, e(j>ri, olov ye avdyK-q rov tvttov 
elvai rov tolovtov piqropos. Ovkovv, -^v S' eyo), 
397 o jxr] TOLOuros a.v, oa<x> dv ^avXorepos f\, Trdvra 
re p,dXXov p^ipiqaeraL Kai ovSev eavrov dvd^Lov 
olr^aerai eti^at, d>are Trdvra emxeLpijaeL piijxeZaQaL 
aTTOvhfj re Kal evavriov ttoXXcov, /cat a vvv Srj 
eXeyofxev , ^povrds re Kai tp6(f>ovs dvepLOjv re /cat 
')(^aXat,ci)V Kal d^ovcuv Kal rpox^'Xlcov Kal aaXTTtyycov 
Kal auAcDi' /cat ovpcyycov Kal Trdvrcov opydvcov 
(jicovdg, Kal en kuvcov Kal rrpofidrajv Kal opveoiv 
(f)d6yyovs- Kat earai 8rj 7] rovrov Xe^ts diraaa hid 
B jjup-qaecos (fjcovals re /cat a^cqpLaaiv , "^ apuKpov ri 
Sirjy-^aecos e^ouaa; 'Amy/cr^, e^i^, /cat rovro. 
Tavra roLVVv, 'qv S eycL, eXeyov rd hvo etS-q rfjs 
Xe^ea)S. Kat yap eartv, e(f)r]. Ovkovv avrdlv ro 
[xev crfiLKpdg rag [xera^oXds e^ei, Kal edv rig 
aTToStSa/ TTpeTTOvaav dpfioviav Kal pvOpiov rfj Xe^ei, 
oXiyov irpog rrjv avrrjv yiyverai Xeyeiv rep opdajg 
Xeyovri Kal ev /xta dpjxovia — apuKpal ydp at fiera- 
C jSoAat — /cat St] ev pvO/xcp diaavrojg TTapaTrXrjoiw 
rivi; K.ofii8ij p,ev ovv, e(f)r], ovrcos exei. Tt he 
ro rov erepov eiSos; ov rdJv evavricov Setrat, 
TTaadJv fjiev app^ovicov, rrdvrcov Se pvdpidjv, el fjieXXei 
av oiKeioiS Xeyeadai, Sta to Travrohandg pi,op(f)d'S 
rdJv fxera^oXcbv exeiv; Kat a(f>6hpa ye ovrcos 

' (iTrX^s Adam plausibly : the siss. ixXXtjj idiomatically, 
"as well." 

" The respondent plays on the double meaning of ovUv 
\^yeLs and replies, ** Yes indeed, you do say something, 
namely the type and pattern," etc. 



of both, of imitation and simple narration, but there 
will be a small portion of imitation in a long dis- 
course — or is there nothing in what I say ? " " Yes, 
indeed," " he said, " that is the type and pattern of 
such a speaker." " Then," said I, " the other kind 
of speaker, the more debased he is the less viiW he 
shrink from imitating anything and everything. He 
will think nothing unworthy of himself, so that he 
will attempt, seriously and in the presence of many,^ 
to imitate all things, including those we just now 
mentioned — claps of thunder, and the noise of -wind 
and hail and axles and pulleys, and the notes of 
trumpets and flutes and pan-pipes, and the sounds 
of all instruments, and the cries of dogs, sheep, 
and birds ; and so his style will depend wholly 
on imitation in voice and gesture, or ■will con- 
tain but a little of pure narration." " That too 
follows of necessity," he said. " These, then," said 
I, " were the two t}'pes of diction of which I was 
speaking." " There are those two," he replied. 
" Now does not one of the two involve shght varia- 
tions,*' and if we assign a suitable pitch and rhythm 
to the diction, is not the result that the right speaker 
speaks almost on the same note and in one cadence 
— for the changes are slight — and similarly in a 
rhythm of nearly the same kind ? " " Quite so." 
" But what of the other type ? Does it not require 
the opposite, every kind of pitch and all rhythms, if 
it too is to have appropriate expression, since it 
involves manifold forms of variation ? " " Emphat- 

* Cf. Gorg. 487 b, Euthydem. 305 b, Protag. 323 b. 

* Besides its suggestion of change and reaction the word 
is technical in music for the transition from one harmony 
to another. 

VOL. I R 241 


ej^et. '^Ap' odu Trdvreg oi TTOirjral /cat ol tl Xeyov- 
T€s rj TO) erepo) tovtojv eTTLTvyxdvovai tvttco rijs 
Xe^ecos rj rco erlpco r] e^ djjL(f)OT€pcov rivl ^vyKepav- 

D vvvTes; 'AvdyKT], e</)7^. Tt ovu rroL'qaofxev ; -^v 8' 
iyco' TTorepov els rrjv ttoXlv Trdvras tovtovs Trapa- 
Se^OfxeOa 7] raJv aKpdrcov rov erepov 7] rov 
K€Kpap,€vov; 'Eat" rj ep-rj, €(f)r), vlko., tov rov 
imeLKovs p,Lp.r]T7]v aKparov. 'AAAct p^i^v, o) 'ASet- 
[xavre, 'qSvs ye Kal 6 KeKpap,ivos , ttoXv 8e r^StaTOS 
TTaiai re /cat TraLhayoiyoZs o evavTios ov av atpeZ 
/cat TOi TrXeiarcp oxXo). "HSiaTos ydp. AAA 
tcnos, rjv 8' eyoj, ovk dv avrov apporreiv ^ati^s" 

E Tjj rjp,€T€pa TToAtreta, on ovk eari hnrXovs avqp 
Trap* rjfjLLv ovSe rroXXaTrXovs , irTeiBrj eKaaros ev 
TTpdrrei. Ov ydp ovv ap/iorret. Ovkovv 8td 
ravra eV piovr] rfj Toiavrrj ttoXcl tov re oKvroropiOv 
aKVTOT6p,ov evp-qaofjiev /cat ov Kv^epvr^rrjv vpos rfj 
aKvrorop,ia, /cat rov yecopyov yeojpyov /cat ov 
SiKaarrjv Trpos rfj yeojpyia, /cat rov TToAe/xt/cov 
TToXepLiKov /cat ov ;)(pT7/iaTiaT')7V' rrpos rfj noXepiKfj, 
/cat irdvras ovrco; ^AXrjOrj, ^(f^f]- "AvSpa Si], cos 
398 eoiKe, 8vvdp,evov vtto ao(f)ias TravroSaTTOV yiyveadai 
/cat p^ipieZodai Trdvra ;\;p7^/xaTa, et rjpxv d(f> 
els rrjv ttoXlv avros re /cat to, TTOt.rjp.ara ^ov- 
Xofievos eTTiSei^aaOai, TrpoaKWolpiev dv avrov cos 
lepov Kal davp,aar6v Kal rjSvv, e'LTTOLp,ev 8' dv 
on OVK eon roiovros dvrjp ev rfj TToXei rrap rjpuv 
ovSe depLis eyyeveadai, dTTOvepLTTotpiev re els dXXr]v 

" The reverse of the Periclean ideal. Cf. Thucyd. ii. 41. 

* The famous banishment of Homer, regarded as the 
prototype of the tragedian. C/. 568 a-c, 595 b, 605 c, 
607 D,'Laws 656 c, 817 b. 


ically so." " And do all poets and speakers hit upon 
one type or the other of diction or some blend which 
they combine of both ? " " They must," he said. 
" What, then," said I, " are we to do ? Shall we 
admit all of these into the city, or one of the unmixed 
types, or the mixed t}*pe ? " " If my vote prevails," 
he said, " the unmixed imitator of the good." " Nay, 
but the mixed type also is pleasing, Adeimantus, and 
far most pleasing to boys and their tutors and the 
great mob is the opposite of your choice." " Most 
pleasing it is." " But perhaps," said I, " you would 
affirm it to be ill-suited to our pohty, because there is 
no twofold or manifold man " among us, since every 
man does one thing." " It is not suited." ** And is 
this not the reason why such a city is the only one in 
which we shall find the cobbler a cobbler and not a 
pilot in addition to his cobbling, and the farmer a 
farmer and not a judge added to his farming, and 
the soldier a soldier and not a money-maker in addi- 
tion to his soldiery, and so of all the rest ? " " True," 
he said. " * If a man, then, it seems, who was capable 
by his cunning of assuming every kind of shape and 
imitating all things should arrive in our city, bringing 
with himself*^ the poems which he wished to exhibit, 
we should fall down and worship him as a holy and 
wondrous and delightful creature, but should say to 
him that there is no man of that kind among us in 
our city, nor is it lawful for such a man to arise 
among us, and we should send him away to another 

' Greek idiom achieves an effect impossible to English 
here, by the shift from the co-ordination of roi^nara with 
airroi to the treatment of it as the object of eiridei^affOai and 
the possible double use of the latter as middle with airros 
and transitive with Troirjfj.aTa. Cf. for a less striking example 
427 D, Phaedr. 250 b-c. 



voXlv fjivpov Kara ttjs K€(f)aXrjs Karax^OLines /cat 
epto) ardifjavTes, avrol 8' ai' rco avar-qporepo) Kai 

B drjSearepcx) TTOirjTjj ^pcofxeda Kat pivdo\6y<x> cuipe- 
Aeta? eVe/ca, os ripuv ttjv tov eTVieiKovs Xe^iv jxipiOLTO 
Kat, ra Xeyojxeva Xiyoi iv eKcivois rots tvitols, ois 
Kar ap^oLS ivojJLoderrjadiJieda, ore rovs crr/aartoj- 
ras iTTex^ipovfxev TratSeuetv. Kat /xaA', €^17, ovtojs 
av TTOiolfiev , el €(f>' rjjjuv etTy. Nvv hrj, elnov eyco, 
& <j>i\€, Kivhvvevei rjulv rrjs fjLovaiKrjs ro nepi 
Xoyovs re /cat fivdovs TravreXcog SiaTTeTrepdvdaf a 
re yap XeKreov /cat a>s" XeKreov, eLprjrai. Kat 
avrw fioL 80/cet, e(f)r]. 

C X. OvKovv pierd rovro, rjv 8' eyco, ro rrepl worjs 
rpoTTOV /cat fieXaJv Xolttov; ArjXa 8ij. 'Ap ovv 
ov Trds yjSrj dv evpoi, d rjplv XeKreov Trepl avrtbv, 
Ota hel elvai, e'iirep jxeXXopiev rot? Trpoeip-qpevois 
avpcfxjovqoretv ; /cat o TXavKCov einyeXdaas , Eyco 
roivvv, ecf>'rj, c5 UdoKpares, KtvSvvevco eKros rcov 
Trdvrcov elvaL' ovkovv LKavdJs ye e^ca iv rip rrapovri 
^vpL^aXeadai, rrof drra 8et rjpids Xeyeiv, VTroTrrevo) 
IxevroL. Oai^TaJS' 8177701;, -^v 8' eyd), Trpdjrov pev 

D To8e LKavajg ^x^t-S Xeyeiv, on ro peXog e'/c rpcajv 
earl avyKeipuevov, Xoyov re /cat dppovlas Kat 
pvOpxtv. Nat, €^17, rovro ye. Ovkovv ocrov ye 
avrov Xoyog eariv, ov^ev hiqTrov Scacfjepei rov 
p,r} dSop,evov Xoyov irpog ro ev rols avrols 8€tv 

<» Cf. from a diiFerent point of view Arnold's The Austerity 
of Poetry. 

* Cf. 379 A if. 

" He laughs at his own mild joke, which Professor 
Wilamowitz {Platon ii. p. 192) does not understand, Cf. Laws 



city, after pouring myrrh down over his head and 
crowning him with fillets of wool, but we ourselves, 
for our souls' good, should continue to employ the 
more austere <* and less delightful poet and tale-teller, 
who would imitate the diction of the good man and 
would tell his tale in the patterns which we pre- 
scribed in the beginning,* when we set out to educate 
our soldiers." " We certainly should do that if it 
rested Asith us." " And now, my friend," said I, 
" we may say that we have completely finished the 
part of music that concerns speeches and tales. For 
we have set forth what is to be said and how it is to 
be said." " I think so too," he rephed. 

X. " After this, then," said I, " comes the manner 
of song and tunes ? " " Obviously." " And having 
gone thus far, could not everybody discover what 
we must say of their character in order to con- 
form to what has already been said ? " "I am 
afraid that ' everybody ' does not include me," 
laughed Glaucon "^ ; " I cannot sufficientlv divine off- 
hand what we ought to say, though I have a sus- 
picion." " You certainly, I presume," said I, " have 
a sufficient understanding of this — that the song ** is 
composed of three things, the words, the tune, and 
the rhythm ? " " Yes," said he, " that much." 
" And so far as it is words, it surely in no manner 
differs from words not sung in the requirement of 

859 E, Hipp. Major 293 a ^ ovx eU tCiv cnravTwv Kal 'HpaicX^y 
Ijv ; and in a recent novel, " ' I am afraid everybody does not 
include me,' she smiled." 

•* The complete song includes words, rhythm, and 
"harmony," that is, a pitch system of high and' low notes. 
Harmony is also used technically of the peculiar Greek 
system of scales or modes. Cf. Monro, Modes of Ancient 
Greek Music. 



TVTTOis XeyeadaL of? dpri Trpoemofiev Kal (La- 
avrcos; ^AX-qdrj, e(f>rj. Kai fjirjv tt^v ye dpfjiovlav 
Kal pvd/JLov aLKoXovdeiv Set to) Aoyoj. Ilcjs 8' ov; 
'AAAo, puevTOL dprjvojv re Kal 68vpp,cov €<f)apLev iv 
XoyoLS ov8ev TrpoaSeladai. Ov yap ovv. Tives ovv 
E dprjvcjjheis appLoviai; Aeye /uot* cry yap pLovaiKos. 
Mi^oAuStart, €<j^^> xal avvTovo\vht.aTl Kal tol- 
avrai rives. Ovkovv avrat, rjv 8' eycv, d(f)aip€TeaL' 
dxpy]crTOt yap Kai yvvac^LV a? 8et eTTieLKels elvai, 
p,rj on dvSpdaiv. Hdvv ye. 'AAAa p.7jv fjLedrj ye 
<j)vXa^iv dnpeTTeaTarov Kal p^aXaKia Kal dpyia. 
IlcDs" yap ov; Tiveg ovv fiaXaKai re Kal avp.7To- 
rcKal rdJv dpjjiovidjv ; lacrrt, rj 8 os, Kal XvSlotl, 
399 aiTti'es' ;\;aAapai KaXovvrai. Taurat? ovv, co (jiiXe, 
CTTt 7ToXep,LKdJv dvSpcov eod 6 ri xprjaei; Ou8a- 
/xo)?., e<f>7]' dXXd KLvSvvevei (jol Sojptorl XeiTreadai 
Kal (f)pvyLari. Ovk ot8a, e(f>riv eyco, rds dpfiovlas, 
dXXd KardXeiTTe eKecvrjv rrjv dpp,oviav, rj ev re 

" The poets at first composed their own music to fit the 
words. When, with the further development of music, there 
arose the practice of distorting the words, as in a mere libretto, 
it provoked a storm of protest from conservatives in aesthetics 
and morals. 

* The modes of Greek music are known to the English 
reader only from Milton's allusions, his " Lap me in soft 
Lydian airs " and, P.L. i. 549 f., his 

Anon they move 
In perfect phalanx to the Dorian mood 
Of flutes and soft recorders ; such as raised 
To highth of noblest temper heroes old. 

The adaptation of particular modes, harmonies or scales to 
the expression of particular feelings is something that we are 
obliged to accept on faith. Plato's statements here were 
challenged by some later critics, but the majority believed 
that there was a real connexion between modes of music 



conformity to the patterns and manner that "we have 
prescribed ? " " True," he said. " And again, the 
music and the rhythm must follow the speech.* " 
" Of course." " But we said we did not require 
dirges and lamentations in words." " We do not." 
" What, then, are the dirge-like modes of music ? Tell 
me, for you are a musician." " The mixed Lydian,* " 
he said, " and the tense or higher Lydian, and similar 
modes." " These, then," said I, " we must do away 
with. For they are useless even to women " who are 
to make the best of themselves, let alone to men." 
" Assuredly." " But again, drunkenness is a thing 
most unbefitting guardians, and so is softness and 
sloth." " Yes." " What, then, are the soft and con- 
\i\ial modes ? " " There are certain Ionian and also 
Lydian modes that are called lax." " Will you make 
any use of them for warriors ? " " None at all," he 
said ; " but it would seem that you have left the 
Dorian and the Phrygian." "I don't know** the 
musical modes," I said, " but leave us that mode * 
that would fittingly imitate the utterances and the 

and modes of feeling, as Ruskin and many others have in 
our day. The hard-headed Epicureans and sceptics denied 
it, as well as the moral significance of music generally. 
« Cf. 387 E. 

* Plato, like a lawyer or popular essayist, affects ignorance 
of the technical details ; or perhaps rather he wishes to 
disengage his main principle from the specialists' controversy 
about particular modes of music and their names. 

• €Keivr]v may mean, but does not say, Dorian, which the 
Laches (1S8 d) pronounces the only true Greek harmony.* 

This long anacoluthic sentence sums up the whole matter 
with impressive repetition and explicit enumeration of all 
types of conduct in peace and war, and implied reference to 
Plato's doctrine of the two fundamental temperaments, the 
swift and the slow, the energetic and the mild. Cf. Unity of 
Plato's lliought, nn. 59, 70, 481. 



TToXefxtKyj TTpd^et ovrog avhpeiov /cat iv Trdar] ^laicp 
ipyaGLO. TrpeTTOVTCos oiv fJup.'qaatTO (fidoyyovs re /cat 
TTpouiphias, Kal aTTOTV)(6vTos , ■^ els Tpavfiara rj 
els davdrovs lovros f] els TLva aXXrjv ^vpL(j)opdv 

B TTcaovTOS , iv TrdcTi tovtols TTaparerayfievojs Kal 
Kaprepovvrcxis apLVvopbivov ttjv rvx^^v- Kal dXXrjv 
av ev elpr]vtKfj re Kal per) jStatoj dAA' ev eKovoicp 
TTpd^ei ovTOs, yj TLvd rt neidovros re Kal heop,evov , 
ri evxfj deov t] hcSaxfj Kal vovderi^aeL dvdpcoTTOv, rj 
rovvavTLov aXXco Seopievcp -^ StSaa/coi^Tt r) pLera- 
TieidovTL eavTOV eirexovra,^ Kal ck tovtojv Trpd^avra 
Kard vovv, Kal per] virep-qcfidvois e^ovra, aAAa 
aojcf)p6va)s re /cat pcerpLcos ev Trdai tovtols Trpdr- 

C TOVTd Te /cat ra aTTO^alvovTa dyaTrdJvra. ravTas 
Svo dppLovias, ^taiov, eKovaiov, Svcttvxovvtojv , 
evTV^ovvTCov , aa)(f)p6vcx)v, duBpetajv [dpp.ovLas] at- 
TLves (f)96yyovs pLipufjaovrai KdWicTTa, TavTag XetTre. 
'AAA', rj 8' OS, ovK aAAa? atTet? XeiTreiv, if] a? 
vuv 8rj eyd) eXeyov. Ovk dpa, rjv 8' eyo), ttoXv- 
Xophlas ye ovhe iravappLOviov rjpiiv Ser^aet ev Tats 
cpSals re Kal pteXeatv. Ov pLOi, e(f)r], (fyalveraL. 
T piyojvcov dpa Kai 7Tr]KTi.8(x)V Kal TrdvTCov opydvoiv, 

D oaa TToXvxopSa Kal rroXvappLOVia, Sr^pnovpyovs ov 
dpeipopLev. Ov (fiaivopieda. Tt Be; avXonoiovs rj 
avXrjTds TTapaSe^et els Tfjv ttoXlv; rj ov tovto 
TToXvxopSoTaTov, /cat awra Ta TravappLovia avXov 
Tvyxdvei oVra pLipLrjpta; ArjXa S-q, -^ 8' os. Avpa 
StJ crot, iqv 8' eycv, Kal Kiddpa AetTrerat /cat Kara 

^ iirexovra has most ms. authority, but inrixovra or irap- 
4xovTa is more normal Greek for the idea. 

° Cf. Laws 814 E. 

* Metaphorically. The " many-toned instrumentation of 


accents of a brave man who is engaged in warfare 
or in any enforced business, and who, when he has 
failed, either meeting wounds or death or ha\"ing 
fallen into some other mishap, in all these condi- 
tions confronts fortune with steadfast endurance and 
repels her strokes. And another for such a man 
engaged in works of peace, not enforced but volun- 
tary,"" either trying to persuade somebody of some- 
thing and imploring him — whether it be a god, 
through prayer, or a man, by teaching and admoni- 
tion — or contrariwise yielding himself to another who 
is petitioning or teaching him or trying to change his 
opinions, and in consequence faring according to his 
wish, and not bearing himself arrogantly, but in all 
this acting modestly and moderately and acquiescing 
in the outcome. Leave us these two modes — the 
enforced and the voluntary — that will best imitate the 
utterances of men faiUng or succeeding, the temper- 
ate, the brave — leave us these." " Well," said he, 
"you are asking me to leave none other than those 
I just spoke of." " Then," said I, " we shall not need 
in our songs and airs instruments of many strings or 
whose compass includes all the harmonies." " Not in 
my opinion," said he. " Then we shall not maintain 
makers of triangles and harps and all other many- 
stringed and poly-harmonic'' instruments." "Ap- 
parently not." "Well, will you admit to the city 
flute-makers and flute-players ? Or is not the flute the 
most ' many-stringed ' of instruments and do not the 
pan-harmonics '^ themselves imitate it ? " " Clearly," 
he said. " You have left," said I, " the lyre and the 

the flutes," as Pindar calls it, 01. vii. 12, can vie with the 

most complex and many-stringed lyre of musical innovation. 

* Cf. 404 D, the only other occurrence of the word in Plato. 



voXiv xPV^''f^(^' 'fci' ^^ /car' dypovs rols vofievcri 
avpiy^ dv ns eirj. 'Qg yovv, €(f)rj, 6 Aoyo? rjijuv 
E arjiiaivei. OwSeV ye, rjv S' eya>, Kaivov TTovovfJiev, 
(h (^tAe, KpLvovres rov 'AttoAAo) /cat to, tov 'AttoA- 
Acov'o? opyava Trpo Mapcruou re icat rail' eKeivov 
opydvcov. Ma At", 17 8' 6s, ov [xol (f)aiv6p,€da. 
Kat VT] rov Kvva, elirov, XeXijdafiev ye Sta- 
Kadatpovres vdXiv t]v dpri Tpv(f)av e^a/xev ttoXlv. 
Hcxxjipovovvres ye rjixeXs, rj S' o?- 

XI. "I^t Srj, €(/)rjv, /cat rd XotTrd Kadatpajfjuev. 
CTTOfievov yap 8r] rats' dpfioviais dv rjfJLiv etr] to 
TTepl pvOfiovs, i^y] ttolklXovs avrovs Slwkciv fjLTjSe 
TTavToSaTrds ^daets, dXXd ^iov pvdfxovs ISelv 
Koajxiov T€ /cat dvSpelov Tives elaiv ovs ISovra 
400 TOV TToSa Tcp TOLOVTOV Xoycp dvayKd^eiv CTTeadac 
/cat TO fjieXos, dXXd fxrj Xoyov ttoSl re /cat /ie'Aet. 
otTtve? 8' dv elev ovtol ol pvdpiOL, aov epyov, warrep 
TO,? dpjjiovias, (^pdcrat. AAAa jxd At", e^r^, ovk 
exoj Ae'yetv. on fxev yap Tpi arra eaTtv e'ihrj, e^ 
<x)v at ^daeis TrXeKovrai, uiairep ev tois (ftdoyyois 
rcTTapa, odev at Trdaai apjxoviai, Tedea/xevos dv 

" Cf. my note on Tim. 47 c, in A.J. P. vol. x. p. 61. 

* Ancient critics noted this sentence as an example of 
adaptation of sound to sense. Gf. Demetr. Ylepl epfi. 185. 
The sigmas and iotas may be fancied to suggest the whistling 
notes of the syrinx. So Lucretius v. 1385 "tibia quas 
fundit digitis pulsata canentum." Of. on Catull. 61. 13 
"voce carmina tinnula." 

' The so-called Rhadamanthine oath to avoid taking the 
names of the gods in vain. Cf. 592 a, Apol. 21 e, Blaydes 
on Aristoph. Wasps 83. 

'' Cf. 373 E. Diimmler, Proleg. p. 62, strangely affirms 
that this is an express retractation of the oKt^Blvt) irdXis. This 
is to misapprehend Plato's method. He starts with the in- 
dispensable minimum of a simple society, develops it by 



either. These are useful" in the city, and in the fields 
the shepherds would have a little piccolo to pipe on.** " 
"So our argument indicates," he said. "We are not 
innovating, my friend, in preferring Apollo and the 
instruments of Apollo to Marsyas and his instruments. ' ' 
" No, by heaven! " he said, " I think not." " And by 
the dog,''" said I, "we have all unawares purged the 
city which a little while ago we said was luxurious.'* " 
" In that we show our good sense," he said. 

XI. " Come then, let us complete the purification. 
For upon harmonies would follow the consideration of 
rhythms : we must not pursue complexity nor great 
variety in the basic movements,* but must observe 
what are the rhythms of a life that is orderly and brave, 
and after observing them require the foot and the air 
to conform to that kind of man's speech and not 
the speech to the foot and the tune. What those 
rhythms would be, it is for you to tell us as you did 
the musical modes." " Nay, in faith," he said, " I 
cannot tell. For that there are some three forms' 
from which the feet are combined, just as there are 
four' in the notes of the voice whence come all 
harmonies, is a thing that I have observed and could 

Herbert Spencer's multiplication of effects into an ordinary 
Greek city, then reforms it by a reform of education and 
finally transforms it into his ideal state by the rule of the 
philosopher kings. Cf. Introd. p. xiv. 

' Practically the feet. 

' According to the ancient musicians these are the equal as 

e.g. in dactyls (— ^ J)., spondees ( ) and anapaests (w w — ), 

where the foot divides into two equal quantities ; the % ratio, 
as in the so-called cretic (— v.^ -) ; the \ as in the iamb (w -) 
and trochee (— v^). Cf. Aristid. Quint, i. pp. 34-35. 

" Possibly the four notes of the tetrachord, but there is no 
agreement among experts. Cf. Monro, Modes of Ancient 
Greek Music, 



eiTToifiL- TToXa Se ttolov ^lov jLitjuryjuaTa, Xeyeiv ovk 
B exio. 'AAAa ravra ^lev, rjv 8' eyco, kol jjLera 
Ad/xiovos ^ovXevcrofxeda, rives re dveXevdepcas Kal 
v^peojs ^ jJiavlas /cat dXXrjs KaKias TrpeTTOvaai 
^daeis, Kal rtvas rots ivavrioLs Xenrreov pvOfxovs. 
OLfiaL Se fie dKrjKoevai ov (jacf)a)s ivoTrXiov re rcva 
ovopLdt,ovros avrov ^vvderov /cat hdKrvXov /cat 
rjpcpov ye, ovk otSa ottcos hLaKOGp,ovvros /cat laov 
dvoi /cat Karco ridevros, els ^po-X^' "^^ ^'^^ jxaKpov 
yLyvojxevov, /cat, d)s eyaJ/xat, lajx^ov /cat nv' dXXov 
C rpoxoLLOv cx)v6p,at,e, [xt^kt] Se /cat ^paxvrr^ras irpoa- 
rJTTre' /cat toiJtoji^ Ttatv' olp,ai rds dyojyds rov 
TToSos avrov ovx rjrrov ifteyeiv re Kal eTraivelv t] 
rovs pvdpiovs avrovs, rjroL ^vvap,cf)6rep6v ri' ov 
yap e;^co Aeyetv. dAAa ravra f-tev, axjirep elrrov, els 
AdjJicova dva^e^Xi'iGdoi- hieXeadai yap ov apLiKpov 
Xoyov rj av otet; Md At", ovk eywye. *AAAd. 
ToSe ye, ort ro rrjs evcrxT^p-oavvQs Te Kal dax'Qlxo- 
crvvT]s ra> evpvdjJLOJ re /cat dppvdpLOJ aKoXovdeX, 
Swacrat SieXeadai; Ucos 8' ov; 'AAAd firjv ro 

" Modern psychologists are still debating the question. 

* The Platonic Socrates frequentlj' refers to Damon as his 
musical expert. Cf. Laches 200 b, infra 424 c, Ale. I, 118 c. 

" There is a hint of satire in this disclaimer of expert 
knowledge. Cf. 399 a. There is no agreement among 
modern experts with regard to the precise form of the so- 
called enoplios. Cf. my review of Herkenrath's " Der 
Enoplios," Class. Phil. vol. iii. p. 360, Goodell, Chapters on 
Greek Metric, pp. 185 and 189, Blaydes on Aristoph. 
^'ubes 651. 

"* Possibly foot, possibly rhythm. oolktuXov seems to mean 
the foot, while Tip(^os is the measure based on dactyls but 
admitting spondees. 



tell. But which are imitations of which sort of life, 
I am unable to say.** " " Well," said I, "on this 
point we will take counsel ^^ith Damon,* too, as to 
which are the feet appropriate to illiberality, and 
insolence or madness or other evils, and what 
rhythms we must leave for their opposites ; and 
I beheve I have heard him obscurely speaking "^ of a 
foot that he called the enoplios, a composite foot, 
and a dactyl and an heroic <* foot, wliich he arranged, 
I know not how, to be equal up and dovvn « in the 
interchange of long and short,'' and unless I am 
mistaken he used the term iambic, and there was 
another foot that he called the trochaic, and he added 
the quantities long and short. And in some of these, 
I believe, he censured and commended the tempo 
of the foot no less than the rhythm itself, or else some 
combination of the two; I can't say. But, as I said, 
let this matter be postponed for Damon's considera- 
tion. For to determine the truth of these would 
require no little discourse. Do you think otherwise?" 
" No, by heaven, I do not." " But this you are able 
to determine — that seemliness and unseemliness are 
attendant upon the good rhythm and the bad." 
" Of course." " And, further,^ that good rhythm and 

• dvoj Kai KCLTu is an untranslatable gibe meaning literally 
and technically the upper and lower half of the foot, the 
arsis and thesis, but idiomatically meaning topsy-turvy. 
There is a similar play on the idiom in Phileh. 43 a and 43 b. 

f Literally "becoming" or "Issuing in long and short," 
long, that is, when a spondee is used, short when a dactyl. 

' Plato, as often, employs the forms of an argument pro- 
ceeding by minute links to accumulate synonyms in illustra- 
tion of a moral or aesthetic analogy. He is working up to 
the Wordsworthian thought that order, harmony, and Ijeauty 
in nature and art are akin to these qualities in the soul. 



D evpvOfjiov ye Kal to appvOfiov to fxev rfj KaXfj 
Ae'^ei eirerai o^ioiovfjievov , ro hk rfj ivavria, Kal to 
evapjxoaTOV Kal dvdpixoaTOV coaavTCOs, eiTrep pv- 
dfxos ye Kal dpfiovia Xoyco, oiairep dpTi eXeyeTO, 
dXXd pLTj Xoyos TOVTOLs. 'AAAa p-riv, rj S' 6s, 
TavTa ye Xoycp aKoXovOrjTeov . Tt 8' o TpoTTOS Trjs 
Xe^ecos, "^v 8' eyo), Kal 6 Xoyos; ov to) ttjs ^^x^js 
Tjdei, eireTai; Iltds yap ov; Tfj Se Xe^ei ToiXXa; 
Nai. EuAoyia dpa Kal evappLoaTia Kal evcrxrj- 
E jxoavvr} Kal evpvdfila evrjdeta aKoXovOet, ovx t]v 
avoiav ovaav VTTOKopit,6pLevoi KaXov/xev d)s ev- 
rjdeiav, aXXd ttjv d)s dXrjOcbs ev Te Kal KaXcos to 
rjdos KaTeaKevaafJbevqv StdvoLav. HaPTdnaarL jxev 
ovv, ecjirj. 'A/a' ovv ov TravTaxov TavTa 8ta»/CTea 
TOLs veoLs, el fxeXXovcri to avTcbv TrpdTTeiv; Atcu- 
KTea fj,ev ovv. "Ectti 8e ye ttov irX-^p-qs p-kv 
401 ypa(f)LKrj avTUiv Kal Tidaa ^ TOiavTr] BrjpLovpyio., 
irXrip-qs 8e vcjyavTiKr] Kal TTOiKiXia Kal olKoSop^ia 
Kal irdaa av rj tcov dXXcov oKevibv epyaala, eTi Se 
Tj T(x)v aoipidTOiv (f)vcns Kal tj tcov dXXa)V (f>VTdJv 
ev TTaai yap tovtols eveoTtv evaxi^poavvq -q dax'"]' 
fjLoavvT]. Kal ri p,€v dcrx'^P'Oavvr] Kal dppvdpLia Kal 
avappuooTLa KaKoXoyias Kal KaKorjdeias dheX<f)d, 
Ta 8' evavTia tov evavTiov, aco(f)pov6s Te Kal 

" Plato recurs to the etymological meaning of eirfiOeia. 
Cf. on 343 c. 

* The Ruskinian and Wordsworthian generalization is ex- 
tended from music to all the fine arts, including, by the way, 



bad rhythm accompany, the one fair diction, as- 
similating itself thereto, and the other the opposite, 
and so of the apt and the unapt, if, as we were just 
now saying, the rhythm and harmony follow the 
words and not the words these." " They certainly 
must follow the speech," he said. " And what of the 
manner of the diction, and the speech ? " said I. 
" Do they not follow and conform to the disposition 
of the soul ? " " Of course." " And all the rest to 
the diction ? " " Yes." " Good speech, then, good 
accord, and good grace, and good rhythm wait upon 
a good disposition, not that weakness of head which 
we euphemistically style goodness of heart, but the 
truly good and fair disposition of the character and 
the mind.'' " " By all means," he said. " And must 
not our youth pursue these everywhere * if they are 
to do what it is truly theirs to do <^ ? " " They must 
indeed." " And there is surely much of these 
quahties in painting and in all similar craftsmanship ** 
— wea\ing is full of them and embroidery and archi- 
tecture and likewise the manufacture of household 
furnishings and thereto the natural bodies of animals 
and plants as well. For in all these there is grace or 
gracelessness. And gracelessness and e\il rhythm 
and disharmony are akin to evil speaking and the evil 
temper, but the opposites are the symbols and the 

architecture (oiKodo/ua), which Butcher {Aristotle's Theory 
of Poetry, p. 138) says is ignored by Plato and Aristotle. 

' Their special task is to cultivate the true fvrjdeLa in their 
souls. For rd avrdiv irpdmiv here cf. 443 c-d. 

** The following page is Plato's most eloquent statement of 
Wordsworth's, Ruskin's, and Tennyson's gospel of beauty 
for the education of the young. He repeats it in Laws 668 b. 
Cf. my paper on "Some Ideals of Education in Plato's 
Republic" Educational Bi-monthly, vol. ii. (1907-1908) 
pp. 2\o S. 



dyadov rjdovs, d8eA(^a re /cat /xtjUT^/xara. Hav- 
TeAco? /xev ovv, €(f)rj. 

B XII. *A/)' ovv Tols TTOir]Tats rjfuv fxovov ctti- 
aTarrjTeov Kal TrpoaavayKaareov rrjv rod dyaOov 
eiKova rjdovs ifiTToieXv rols TTOtT^fxaaiv rj fxrj Trap" 
rjjjilv TTOielv, ^ Kal rolg dXXoLs Srjfxtovpyolg Itti- 
ararrjreov /cat Sta/cojAureov' to KaKorjdes tovto /cat 
aKoXacTTOv /cat dveXevdepov /cat da)(7]ixov [xi^Te iv 
ei/coCTt ^cocov p.rjT€ ev oiKoSofX'qfxacn p^'^re iv aAAo) 
p.r]8€vl 8rjpLovpyovp,€va) ip-TTOielv, r^ 6 p,rj otd? t€ 
cov ovK iareos Trap* rj/jLLv hT]p.iovpyeiv, Iva p,ri iv 
KaKias eiKoai Tp€(f)6p,€voL rjpXv ot (f)vXaKes ojoTTep 

^ iv KaKjj ^ordvr], ttoAAo. iKdarrjs rjpiipas Kara 
ap,LKp6v aTTO TToAAcDi' Spenop^evoL re Kal vepiopevoi, 
€v Ti ^vvLcrrdvTes XavOdvcocn /ca/cov /x,eya iv rfj 
avTcov ifjvxfj' dXX' iKeivovs t,YjTr]T€ov tovs S-qpn- 
ovpyovs Toiis €V(f)va)s hvvap,€vovs Ixveveiv ttjv rod 
KoXov re Kal €va)('qpovos (f>vaLV, iv' cocrTrep iv 
vyieivcp roTTCp oiKovvres ol veot, diro rravros 
CD^eXoJvrai, oTTodev dv avrols o-tto rcov KaXdJv 
epycDV Tj TTpos oi/jlv t] TTpos dKo-qv ri Trpoa^dXr], 
waTTep avpa (f)epovaa dm XPV^'''^^ roncov vyUiav, 

D /cat evdvs iK Traihayv Xavddvr) els 6p,oi6rr]rd re 
Kal i^iXiav /cat ^vp,cf)a>VLav rip KaXo) X6ya> dyovcra; 
HoXii yap dv, ecf)!), KoXXiara ovrco rpac/teiev. '"A/a' 
ovv, rjv 8' iyco, CO TXavKOJV, rovrojv eVe/ca Kvptco- 
rdrr) iv pLovcriKfj rpo(f)TJ, on pidXicrra KarahveraL 



kin of the opposites, the sober and good disposition." 
" Entirely so," he said. 

XII. " Is it, then, only the poets that we must 
super\-ise and compel to embody in their poems the 
semblance of the good character or else not vrrite poetry 
among us, or must we keep watch over the other crafts- 
men, and forbid them to represent the e\il disposition, 
the licentious, the illiberal, the graceless, either in 
the likeness of li\inor creatures or in buildino^s or in 
any other product of their art, on penalty, if unable to 
obey, of being forbidden to practise their art among 
us, that our guardians may not be bred among 
symbols of e\il, as it were in a pasturage of poisonous 
herbs, lest grazing freely and cropping from many 
such day by day they little by little and all unawares 
accumulate and build up a huge mass of e\i\ in their 
own souls. But we must look for those craftsmen 
who by the happy gift of nature are capable of 
following the trail of true beauty and grace, that 
our young men, dwelUng as it were in a salubrious 
region, may receive benefit from all things about 
them, whence the influence that emanates from works 
of beauty may waft itself to eye or ear hke a breeze 
that brings from wholesome places health, and so 
from earliest childhood insensibly guide them to 
hkeness, to friendship, to harmony N^ith beautiful 
reason." " Yes," he said, " that would be far the 
best education for them." " And is it not for this 
reason, Glaucon," said I, " that education in music 
is most sovereign," because more than anything else 

" Schopenhauer, following Plato, adds the further meta- 
physical reason that while the other arts imitate the external 
manifestations of the universal Will, music represents the 
Will itself. 

VOL. I s 257 


€1? TO ivTOs rrjs ipvxV^ '^ "^^ pvdfxos Koi dpfiovia, 
Kai eppoj/xeveaTara aTrreraL avrrj^, (f>€povTa nqv 
€va)(7^[j,oauvr]v , Kai TTOtel evax^fxova, idv rt? opdoJs 

E Tpa<f>fj, el 8e /itry, rovvavriov ; /cat on av rcbv 
TtapaXeiTTOjxevcxiv /cat /xt] /caAcD? hrjpLLOvpyrjdevTCov 
rj jJLTj KaXcjg (f)vvrwv o^vrar' dv aladdvoiro 6 e/cet 
Tpa(j>els d)S e'Set, /cat opdcog 8r] Svax^pctivcov rd 
[X€V KoXd €7Tat,voL Kai xaipcov /cat Karahe^dpievos 
els T7]V ifivx^v Tpe(f)Ot.T dv an' avrcov Kai yiyvoiTO 
402 KaXos re Kayados, rd 8' ala^pd ifjeyoi t' dv 6p6a)s 
Kai pnaol ert veos cx)v, Trpiv \6yov hvvaros elvai 
Xa^elvy eXdovTos 8e rov Xoyov aCTTra^otr' dv avrov 
yvcopL^wv 8t' OLKeioTTjTa pbaXiara 6 ovtoj Tpa(f>eLs; 
'E/Ltot yovv hoKei, €cf>r), tojv tolovtcov eveKa iv 
pLOVCTLKfj etvai, 7] rpocf)-^. "Q-cnrep dpa, rjv 8' eyctj, 
ypapLpLdrcov Trept Tore LKavdys ecxofxev, ore rd 
OTOLX^^OL jJLTj XavddvoL Tjfids oXiya ovra ev aTraoiv 
ols eari 7T€pi(l>€p6pi€va, Kai out* iv apuKpo) ovt 

B iv p,eydXcp rjTCfxd^opLev avrd, d)s ov 8eot alaQd- 
veadai, dXXd navraxov TrpovdvpLovixeda hiayLyvoj- 
OKeiv, (hs ov TTporepov iaopievoL ypapipbarLKol rrplv 
OVTOJS exoifiev. 'AXrjdrj. Ovkovv Kai elKovas 

" Cf. supra 362 b, 366 c, 388 a, 391 e, and Ruskin's 
paradox that taste is the only morahty. 

*" Cf. Laws 653 b-c, where Plato defines education by this 
principle. Aristotle virtually accepts it {Ethics ii. 3. 2). The 
Stoics somewhat pedantically laid it down that reason 
entered into the youth at the age of fourteen. 

' Plato often employs letters or elements (crrotxfta) to 



rhythm and harmony find their way to the inmost 
soul and take strongest hold upon it, bringing with 
them and imparting grace, if one is rightly trained, 
and other^^-ise the contrary ? And further, because 
omissions and the failure of beauty in things badly 
made or growTi would be most quickly perceived by 
one who was properly educated in music, and so, 
feeling distaste " rightly, he would praise beautiful 
things and take delight in them and receive them 
into his soul to foster its growth and become himself 
beautiful and good. The ugly he would rightly dis- 
approve of and hate while still young and yet unable 
to apprehend the reason, but when reason came ^ 
the man thus nurtured would be the first to give 
her welcome, for by this affinity he would know her." 
" I certainly think," he said, " that such is the cause 
of education in music." " It is, then," said I, " as it 
was when we learned our letters "^ and felt that we 
knew them sufficiently only when the separate 
letters did not elude us, appearing as few elements 
in all the combinations that convey them, and when 
we did not disregard them in small things or great ** 
and think it unnecessary to recognize them, but 
were eager to distinguish them everywhere, in the 
belief that we should never be literate and letter- 
perfect till we could do this." " True." " And is 

illustrate the acquisition of knowledge (TheMtet. 206 a), the 
relation of elements to compounds, the principles of classifi- 
cation {Phileb. 18 c, Cratyl. 393 d), and the theory of ideas 
{Polit. 278 A. Cf. Isoc. xiii. 13, Xen. Mem. iv. 4. 7, Blass, 
Attische Beredsa'mkelt, ii. pp. 23 f., 348 f., Cic. De or. ii. 130). 
<* It is fundamental Platonic doctrine that truth is not 
concerned with size or seeming importance. (Cf. Parmdi. 
130 D-E, Polit. 266 D, Laics 793 c, 901-902, Sophist 227 b, 
Hipp. Major 288 d. 



ypafifidrojv, et ttov tj iv vSaaiv rj iv KaroTTrpoig 
ip,(j)aivoiVTO , ov irporepov yvoxjofxeda, rrplv dv 
avrd yvtofxev, dAA' eari rrjs avrrjs Te;^ny? re Kal 
fxeXerr]?; HavraTraat fxev ovv. 'Ap' ovv, o Aeyco, 
■npos Oecov, ovrcog ovSe pLovaiKol Trporepov iaofxeOa, 

C ovre avTOL oure ovg (f)afxev rjpuv TraihevTCov elvai 
rovs (f>vXaKas, nplv dv to. ttjs aco(f>poavinr]s et8rj 
Kal avSpeiag Kal iXevdepiOTTjTos Kal fieyaXo- 
TTpeTTcias Kal oaa rovrwv aSeA^a Kal to. tovtojv av 
evavTta 7Tavra)(ov 7TepL({)ep6[ji€va yv(jopit,a>p,ev Kal 
ivovra ev ols evearcv alaOavwfxeda Kal avTO. Kal 
CLKovag avr(x)V, Kal p,rjT€ iv OjUKpols fxrjre iv 
fieydXoLg drLixdt,cop.ev, dWd ttjs avT-fjg otco/xe^a 
Texvrjg elvat Kal pieXirrjs ; IloAAi^ dvdyKTj, €(l)r]. 

D OvKovv, rjv 8' iyco, otov dv ^vfiTTtrrTrj ev re rij 
i/jvxjj KaXd rjdrj ivovra Kal iv rat etSet oixo- 
Xoyovvra eKetvoig Kal ^vpLcfiOJvovvra, rov avrou 
/LteTe;!^op'Ta tvttov, tovt* dv etr] KaXXt-arov diajxa 

" It is of course possible to contrast images with the 
things themselves, and to speak of forms or species without 
explicit allusion to the metaphysical doctrine of ideas. But 
on the other hand there is not the slightest reason to assume 
that the doctrine and its terminology were not familiar to 
Plato at the time when this part of the Republic was written. 
Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, pp. 31 ff., 35. Statistics of 
the uses of etSos andiSe'a (Peiper's OntologicaPlatonica,Tajlor, 
Varia Socratica, Wilamowitz, Platon, ii. pp. 249-253), what- 
ever their philological interest, contribute nothing to the in- 
terpretation of Plato's thought. Cf. my De Platonis Idearum 
Doctrina, pp. 1, 30, and Class. Phil. vol. vi. pp. 363-364. 

There is for common sense no contradiction or problem 
in the fact that Plato here says that we cannot be true 
" musicians " till we recognize both the forms and all copies 
of, or approximations to, them in art or nature, while in 
Book X. (601) he argues that the poet and artist copy not 
the idea but its copy in the material world. 


it not also true that if there are any hkenesses " of 
letters reflected in water or mirrors, we shall never 
know them until we know the originals, but such 
knowledge belongs to the same art and discipline * ? " 
" By all means." " Then, by heaven, am I not 
right in saying that by the same token we shall 
never be true musicians, either — neither we nor the 
guardians that we have undertaken to educate — 
until we are able to recognize the forms of soberness, 
courage, hberality,'"and high-mindedness and all their 
kindred and their opposites, too, in all the combina- 
tions that contain and convey them, and to apprehend 
them and their images wherever found, disregarding 
them neither in trifles nor in great things, but believ- 
ing the knowledge of them to belong to the same 
art and discipline ? " " The conclusion is inevitable," 
he said. " Then," said I, " when there is a coin- 
cidence "* of a beautiful disposition in the soul and cor- 
responding and harmonious beauties of the same type 
in the bodily form — is not this the fairest spectacle 
for one who is capable of its contemplation « ? " 

' Plato, like all intellectuals, habitually assumes that 
knowledge of principles helps practice. C/. Phaedr. 259 e, 
262 B, and infra 484 d, 520 c, 540 a. 

' Liberality and high-mindedness, or rather, perhaps, 
magniticence, are among the virtues defined in Aristotle's 
list {Eth. yie. 1107 b 17), but are not among the four 
cardinal virtues which the Republic will use in Book IV. 
in the comparison of the individual with the state. 

** Symp. 209 b to a\'vafjL(j>6Tipov, 210 c, Wilamowitz, vol. ii. 
p. 192. 

' Music and beauty lead to the philosophy of love, more 
fully set forth in the Phaedrus and St/mposium, and here 
dismissed in a page. Plato's practical conclusion here may 
be summed up in the Virgilian line {Aen. v. 344): 

Gratior at pulchro veniens in corpore virtus. 



to) Svva^evo) dedadai; IloAy ye. Kat fxrjv to ye 
KaWidTov ipaaixLcoraTov . ITcu? 8' ov; Tojv Brj o 
ri /xaAtCTxa roiovrcov dvdpwTTCov 6 ye jjlovglkos 
epcprj av el 8e d^vfj,(f)a>vos eirj, ovk av epcor). OvK 
av, e'i ye n, e(f}r], Kara tyjv tfjvx'Tjv eAAetVof et p-ev- 
TOL Ti Kara ro <7cop,a, VTTop.elveLev dv (Lot edeXeiv 
E daTra.t,eadaL. ^{avddvoi, rjv S' eyu), otl eari. aoL r) 
yeyove TratSt/cd TOiavra, /cat avyxiopco' dXXd roSe 
p,OL eme' aco(f>poarvvrj /cat rjSovfj vnepBaXXovcrrj eart 
Tig Koivoivia; Kai ttcDs", ^4*V> V 7^ eK<f)pova TTOiel 
403 ov)( TjTTOv Tj XvTTTj; 'AAAd rfj dXXr] dperfj ; OuSa- 
jjicjg. Ti 8e ; v^pei re /cat d/coAaata; IldvTcov 
/xdAtcrra. Met^w 8e Tiva /cat o^vrepav ex^t? et- 
Tretv rjbovrjv rrjs nepi rd d^pohiaia; Ovk e'xcti, tj 
S' o?, ovhe ye piavLKcorepav. *0 8e opdog epojs 
7Te(f)VKe Koapnov re /cat KaXov cra)(f>p6vcog re /cat 
pLovaLKws epav; Kat /xdAa, ■i^ 8' os'. OuSev' dpa 
TTpoaocareov p^aviKOV ovhe ^vyyeveg d/coAaata? Toi 
opdcp epojTi; Ov Trpoaoioreov. Ov npoaoLcrreov 
E dpa avrt] rj rjSovq, ovSe KOLVcovrjreov avrrjg epaarfj 
re /cat TratSt/cot? opdcbg epcbai re Kal epa)p.evoLS ; 
Ov pLevTOL, p.d At", e(f>rj, co Sco/cparej, Trpocjoiareov. 
OvTCO S-q, d)s eoLKe, vopLoderijaetg ev rfj oiKi^opLevr) 
TToAet (f>LXeXv p,ev Kal ^vvelvat Kal diTTeaOat ayoTrep 
vleog TraihiKaiv epaariqv, tcov KaXcvv x^P'-^> ^^^ 
TTeldr]- rd 8' dAAa ovrcos d/ttAeti^ Trpog ov ti? 
OTTOvBdl^oL, OTTCxis p,r]he7Tore So^ei piaKporepa rov- 

" Extravagant pleasure is akin to madness. Cf. Phileh. 
4~ A-c, Phaedo 83 c-d. 
" Cf. 468 B-c. 



" Far the fairest." " And surely the fairest is the 
most lovable." "Of course." " The true musician, 
then, would love by preference persons of this sort ; 
but if there were disharmony he would not love 
this." " No," he said, " not if there was a defect 
in the soul ; but if it were in the body he would bear 
with it and still be wilUng to bestow his love." 
" I understand," I said, " that you have or have had 
favourites of this sort and I grant your distinction. 
But tell me this — can there be any communion 
between soberness and extravagant pleasure <» ? " 
" How could there be," he said, " since such 
pleasure puts a man beside himself no less than 
pain?" "Or between it and \-irtue generally?" 
" By no means." " But is there between pleasure 
and insolence and licence ? " " Most assuredly." 
" Do you know of greater or keener pleasure than 
that associated with Aphrodite ? " "I don't," he 
said, " nor yet of any more insane." " But is not 
the right love a sober and harmonious love of the 
orderly and the beautiful ? " " It is indeed," said 
he. " Then nothing of madness, nothing akin to 
licence, must be allowed to come nigh the right 
love ? " "No." " Then this kind of pleasure may 
not come nigh, nor may lover and beloved who rightly 
love and are loved have anything to do with it ? " 
" No, by heaven, Socrates," he said, " it must not 
come nigh them." " Thus, then, as it seems, you 
will lay down the law in the city that we are founding, 
that the lover may kiss ** and pass the time with and 
touch the beloved as a father would a son, for honour- 
able ends, if he persuade him. But otherwise he must 
so associate with the objects of his care that there 
should never be any suspicion of anything further, 



C Tcov ^vyyiyveadaf el 8e /zt^, ipoyov dfiovaias Kal 
a-neipoKaXias V(f>€^ovra. Ovrcos, e(f>rj. 'A/a' ovv, 
rjv B' iyci), Kal crol ^aiverai reXos rnuv ex^iv 6 
Trepi f.LovaiK7Js Xoyog- ol yovv Set TeXevrav, Tcre- 
XevTTjKe' Set 8e ttov reXevrav ra jxovaiKa els to. 
Tov KaXov epcoTiKa. Hu/>t<^7^/xi, ■:^ 8' o?. 

XIII. Mera Sr) puOvaiKrjv yvfxvaaTLKfj dpeirreoi ol 
veavlai. Tt pL-qv; Aet puev S-q Kal ravrr) aKpi^ws 

D rpe(j>€adaL eV Traihoiv Sta ^lov, ex^i 8e ttcjs, cos 
eya)piaL, cSSe- OKOTrei he Kal av' ep.ol p,ev yap ov 
cfiaiveraL, o av p^pTjcrroi' fj awpa, tovto ttj avTov 
aperfj i/jvxrjv ayaO-qv TTOielv, dAAa rovvavriov ^'^Xl 
dyadrj rfj avTTJs dpeTrj acbpLa Trapex^iv ws otov re 
^eXTLOTOv aol he ttcos ^atVerat; Kat epol, e^r), 
ovTcog. OvKovv el ttjv htdvoiav LKavcos depanev- 
aavres napaholpev avrfj Ta irepl to acopia dKpi^o- 

E XoyeZadat, rjpLels he oaou tovs tvttovs vcf>r]yr]aaL- 
pLeda, Iva pirj pLaKpoXoyoJpLev, opdtbs dv iroiolpev; 
Yidw puev ovv. Medrjs P'^v h-q ehrop-ev otl dc/)eK- 
reov avToXs' navrl ydp ttov p,dXXov eyxojpeZ rj 
(f)vXaKi pLedvcrdevTL p,rj elhevai ottov yrjg eariv. 
TeXolov ydp, 7^ S' os, tov ye cf)vXaKa (f>vXaKos 
heladai. Ti he hr) gltcdv rrepi; dOXrjTal p,ev ydp 

" The dependence of body on soul, whether in a mystical, 
a moral, or a medical sense, is a favourite doctrine of Plato 
and Platonists. Cf. Charm. 156-157, Spenser, "An Hymn 
in Honour of Beauty " : 

For of the soul the body form doth take, 
For soul is form, and doth the body make, 

and Shelley, "The Sensitive Plant": 


on penalty of being stigmatized for want of taste 
and true musical culture." " Even so," he said. 
" Do you not agree, then, that our discourse on music 
has come to an end ? It has certainly made a fitting 
end, for surely the end and consummation of culture 
is the love of the beautiful." " I concur," he said. 

XIII. " After music our youth are to be educated 
by gj^mnastics ? " " Certainly." " In this too they 
must be carefully trained from boyhood through life, 
and the way of it is this, I beheve ; but consider it 
yourself too. For I, for my part, do not believe that 
a sound body by its excellence makes the soul good, 
but on the contrary that a good soul by its \irtue 
renders the body the best that is possible." What is 
your opinion ? " "I think so too." " Then if we 
should sufficiently train the mind and turn over to it 
the minutiae of the care of the body, and content 
ourselves with merely indicating the norms or 
patterns, not to make a long story of it, we should 
be acting rightly ? " " By all means." " From in- 
toxication ** we said that they must abstain. For a 
guardian is surely the last person in the world to 
whom it is allowable to get drunk and not know 
where on earth he is." " Yes," he said, " it would 
be absurd that a guardian*' should need a guard." 
" What next about their food ? These men are 
A lady, the wonder. of her kind. 
Whose form was upborne by a lovely mind. 
Which dilating had moulded her mien and motion 
Like a sea-ttower unfolded beneath the ocean. 
Cf. also Democr. fr. B. 187 Diels^, 

* Cf. 398 E. There is no contradiction between this and 
the half-serious proposal of the Laws to use supervised 
drinking-bouts as a safe test of character (Laws 641). 

• 7e emphasizes what follows from the very meaning of 
the word. Cf. 379 b, 389 b. 435 a. 



oi avSpes rov ^eyiarov dycovos' rj ovx^; Nai. 
Ap ovv rj TCOvSe rcbv daKrjraJv e^ts" TrpoarJKOVa' 
404 av etr] tovtols; "lacog. 'AAA', -^v S' iyoj, VTTVCoSrjs 
avTY] ye rt? Kal a(j)aXepa Trpos vyUiav t) ovx 6pa<; 
OTL KaOevSoval re rov ^iov, /cat edv crpiKpd eK^chai 
TTJs T€Tayp,€vr]s Stairrjs, pieydXa Kal a(f)6hpa 
vocrovcTLv ovToi Oi dcTKTjrai; 'Opco. ViopulsoTepas 
hrj Tivos, -qv S' eyoj, daK'qaecos Set rols 77oAe/xtKOt? 
ddXrjTals, ovs ye warrep Kvvas dypvTTvovs re 
dvdyKrj etvat /cat o rt /xaAicrra d^v opav Kal 
dKovetv Kal TzoAAd? fiera^oXds ev rals OTpareiais 

B fxera^aXXovras vSarcov re Kal rcbv dWcov aircnv 
Kal elX-qaeoiv Kal ;Yet)Ltdjva)v ^^,17 dKpoa(j)a\€Ls elvai 
TTpog vyLeLav. OatVerat /xot. ^Ap* ovv tj ^€Xtlgtt] 
yvp^vaariKT] dSeXt^-q tls dv eirj rrjg pLovcnKrjg, tjv 
oXiyov Trporepov Sifjjxev; Ylwg Xeyeis; 'AttXtj ttov 
Kal eTTLecKT)? yvpvaariKij, Kal pidXiara rj tcov Tvepi 
Tov TToXepiov. Wfj hrj; Kai Trap' 'Oprjpov, fjv 8' 
^yoi, ra ye roiavra pddoi dv tls. olada yap on 
iirl OTparelas iv rats ratv rjpcocov iarLdaeatv ovre 

C ix^^^^^ avTous icTTLa, /cat raura eTTt daXarrr) ev 
'EAAryo-Trdrro) ovras, ovre e^Bots Kplaaiv aAAd 

" Of. 543 B, 621 D, Laches 182 a, Laws 830 a, Demosth. 
XXV. 97 ad\y}ral tGiv koKCiv Ipyuv. 

'' Cf. 'Epdo-rat 132 c KadeiSwv wavra rov §iov. Xenophanes, 
Euripides, Aristotle, and the medical writers, like Plato, 
protest against the exaggerated honour paid to athletes 
and the heavy sluggishness induced by overfeeding and 

" Laws 797 d. Cf. supra 380 e. Aristotle's comment on 
fiera^oXr], Eth. Nic. 1154 b 28 ff., is curiously reminiscent of 
Plato, including the phrase dTrXi; oi)5' iinuKrjs. 

■* Perhaps in the context "cold." 

* Literally "equitable," if we translate etrLeiKrjs by its later 
meaning, that is, not over-precise or rigid in conformity to 



athletes in the greatest of contests," are they not ? " . 
" Yes." " Is, then, the bodily habit of the athletes 
we see about us suitable for such ? " " Perhaps." 
" Nay," said I, " that is a drowsy habit and pre- 
cai*ious for health. Don't you observe that they 
sleep away their hves,^ and that if they depart ever 
so httle from their prescribed regimen these athletes 
are hable to great and \iolent diseases ? " "I do." 
" Then," said I, " we need some more ingenious form 
of training for our athletes of war, since these must 
be as it were sleepless hounds, and have the keenest 
possible perceptions of sight and hearing, and in 
their campaigns undergo many changes '^ in their 
drinking water, their food, and in exposure to the 
heat of the sun and to storms,** without disturbance 
of their health." " I think so." " Would not, then, 
the best gymnastics be akin to the music that we 
were just now describing .' " " \\'hat do you mean ? " 
" It would be a simple and flexible* gymnastic, and 
especially so in the training for war." " In what 
way ? " " One could learn that," said I, " even from 
Homer.' For you are aware that in the banqueting 
of the heroes on campaign he does not feast them on 
fish,» though they are at the sea-side on the Helles- 
pont,* nor on boiled meat, but only on roast, which is 

rule. Adam Is mistaken in saying that iirieiKris is practically 
synonymous with aya$rj. It sometimes is, but not here. 
C/. Plutarch, De san. 13 axpi^ris . . . Kal 5t' Swxos. 

* So Laws 706 d. The *-oi is perhaps merely idiomatic in 

" Homer's ignoring of fish diet, except in stress of starva- 
tion, has been much and idly discussed both in antiquitj^ 
and by modern scholars. Modern pseudo-science has even 
inferred from this passage that Plato placed a "taboo" 
on fish. 

' Which Homer calk " fish-teeming," It. ix. 360. 



fiovov OTTTOLs, o. St] jLtaAicrr' av etrj (TTpancoTats 
evTTopa' TTavraxov ydp, chs enos eiTretv, aura* tco 
TTvpl )(p7JadaL evTTopcorepov t) dyyela ^vixirepi^epeiv. 
Kat fidXa. OvSe fjLrjv rjhvap.dro)v, d>s iycLpLai, 
Opir]pos TTCOTTOTe ipLvrjodr]' t) tovto pukv /cat ol dXXoL 
aGKr]rat iaaaiv, on to) jxeXXovn (Tco/xart ev e^eiv 
a(f)eKT€.ov Tojv TOLOVTOJV OLTjavTCxiv ; Kat opdaJs ye, 

D ecfiYj, LcracTL re /cat dire^^^ovraL. HvpaKOoiav he, ch 
(j>iXe, Tpdrrei^av Koi HcKeXcKrjv iroiKiXiav oifjov, cos 
koLKas, OVK aLvels, etirep aoi ravra 8oKei opdajs 
ex^i'V. Ov fxOL SoKcb. ^eyeLs dpa /cat K.opi,vdtav 
Koprjv (^lXtjv etvai dvSpdcn fieXXovatv ev CTaJ/xaros' 
e^eiv. Ylavrdiraai. p.ev ovv. Ovkovv /cat ^Attlkwv 
TTefjifidrcov rds SoKovcras elvai evTraOeias ; ^AvdyKT). 
' OXrjv ydp, otjjiaL, rrjv Toiavrrjv aLTr]aiv /cat 
Statrav rfj fieXoTTOua re /cat cpSij rfj ev ra> Tvavap- 

E pLOVLcp /cat ev Trdai pvdfxoXs TreTTOtrjuevrj aTretKd^ov- 
res dpOcbs dv dTreLKdi^oLfJcev. Ilcos ydp ov; Ovkovv 
e/cei fxev dKoXaaiav r^ TTOt/ciAt'a everiKrev, evravda 
Se voaov, rj 8e aTrXoTrfs Kara /xev jJLovcnKrjv 
iv i/jvxo.L9 (Jco(f)poavvr}v, Kara Se yvp.vaart,Kr]V 
ev arco/Jiacnv vyieiav; 'AXr^OeaTara, e(f)7]. 'A/coAa- 
405 CTta? Se /cat voctojv irXrjdvovaibv iv TToXei dp^ ov 
hiKaanqpid re /cat larpela ttoAAo. dvoiyerai, /cat 
hiKavLKr^ re /cat larptKrj aepivvvovrai, orav §17 Kat 
eXevdepoL 77oAAot /cat acf)68pa Trepl avrd anovSd- 
l^ojOLv; Tt ydp ov jxeXXei; 

" Cf. Green, History of English People, Book II. chap, ii., 
an old description of the Scotch army : " They have therefore 
no occasion for pots or pans, for they dress the flesh of the 
cattle in their skins after they have flayed them," etc. But 
cf. Athenaeus, i. 8-9 (vol. i. p. 36 L.C.L.), Diog. Laert. viii. 
13 aicrre evTropi<rTOVS airols elvai. rdj Tpo(pds. 



what soldiers could most easily procure. For every- 
where, one may say, it is of easier provision to use 
the bare fire than to convey pots and pans " along." 
" Indeed it is." " Neither, as I believe, does Homer 
ever make mention of sweetmeats. Is not that 
something which all men in training understand — that 
if one is to keep his body in good condition he must 
abstain from such things altogether ? " " They are 
right," he said, " in that they know it and do abstain." 
" Then, my friend, if you think this is the right way, 
you apparently do not approve of a Syracusan table ^ 
and Sicihan variety of made dishes." " I think not." 
" You would fro^^'n, then, on a little Corinthian maid 
as the chere amie of men who were to keep themselves 
fit ? " " Most certainly." " And also on the seem- 
ing dehghts of Attic pastry ? " " Inevitably." " In 
general, I take it, if we hkened that kind of food and 
regimen to music and song expressed in the pan- 
harmonic mode and in every variety of rhythm it 
would be a fair comparison." " Quite so." " And 
there variety engendered licentiousness, diditnot,but 
here disease ? While simplicity in music begets sobriety 
in the souls, and in gymnastic training it begets 
health in bodies." " Most true," he said. " And 
when licentiousness and disease multiply in a city, 
are not many courts of law and dispensaries opened, 
and the arts of chicane " and medicine give themselves 
airs when even free men in great numbers take them 
very seriously ? " " How can they help it ? " he said. 

* Proverbial, like the "Corinthian maid" and the "Attic 
pastry." Cf. Otto, Sprichw. d. Rom. p. 321, Newman, 
Introduction to Aristotle's Politics, p. 302. Cf. also Phaedr. 
240 B. 

« SiKavtKTj : more contemptuous than St/ccuTTtnc^. 



XIV. Trjg he KaKrjs re Kal alaxpas TraiSeta? iv 
TToXet apa p,-^ tl ixell,ov e^ei? Xa^elv reKfi-qpiov, rj 
TO Seladai larpcvv /cat BtKaaTwv aKpojv, [xrj piovov 
Tovs (f)avXovs T€ /cat ■)(^eLpoT€Xva? , aAAo. /cat Toys' ^v 
iXevdeptp a)(r)pLaTL -npoaTTOLOvpuevovs redpacfydai; t] 
B ovK alcTXpov So/cet /cat aTratSeufftas' /Lteya reKpiTj- 
piov TO eTTaKTO) ■nap' aAAoiP", cw? heairorcjjv re /cat 
Kpircov, TO) SiKalcp dvay/ca^ea^at ;^p7]CT^ai, /cat 
aTTopia OLKeicov; YldvTOJV pLev ovv, e(f)r], aiaxiarov. 
*H 8o/cet CTOt, T^r 8 eyw, tovtov ata^iov etvat 


hiKacTTrjpiois (f)evya)v Te /cat Sicjokcov KaraTpL^rjrai, 
aAAa /cat utto (XTretpo/caAtas' eV avra> hr] tovto) 
neiadfi KaXXcoTTi^eadaL, chs Seti^o? cov Trepl to 

C dSiKelv /cat t/cai'o? rrdaas f-iev arpo(f)ds arpe(f)eadai, 
ndaas Se Ste^oSous' Sie^eXdcbv dTToarpacJjrjvai, Auyt^d- 
pievos, ware p-rj Tvapaax^lv Slktjv, /cat Tavra 
ap,LKpcov T€ /cat ovSevos d^tcov eveKa, dyvoiov oacp 
KoXXiov /cat dp,eivov to 7TapaaKevdl,eiv tov ^lov 
avTcp pLTjSev heZuOai vvaTdl,ovros hiKaorov ; Ovk, 
dXXd TOVT , e(f)rj, e/cetVou eVt atCT;^toP'. To 8e 
laTpiKrjs, Tiv 8' eyco, heZadai, o ti pLt] TpavpidTCJU 
eveKa rj tlvcov eTreTeicov voarjp.dTO}v einTTeaovTOiv , 

D dAAd St' dpyiav Te /cat StatTav otai' Si,t^Xdopiev 
pevpidrajv Te /cat TTvevpLdrcov cooTrep Xipivas ep,- 

" I have given the sense. The construction is debated 
accordingly as we read awopla or diropig,. Cf. Phaedr. 239 d, 
of the use of cosmetics, XHTet- olKdwu. The Kai with d-rropLa 
is awkward or expresses the carelessness of conversation. 

* Plato likes to emphasize by pointing to a lower depth or 
a higher height beyond the superlative. 

' There is no exact English equivalent for dweipoKaXia, the 



XIV. " Will you be able to find a surer proof of an 
e\i\ and shameful state of education in a city than the 
necessity of first-rate physicians and judges, not only 
for the base and mechanical, but for those who claim 
to have been bred in the fashion of free men ? Do 
you not think it disgraceful and a notable mark of 
bad breeding to have to make use of a justice im- 
ported from others, who thus become your masters 
and judges, from lack of such qualities in yourself" ? " 
" The most shameful thing in the world." " Is it ? " 
said I, " or is this still more shameful ** — when a man 
not only wears out the better part of his days in the 
courts of law as defendant or accuser, but from the 
lack of all true sense of values '^ is led to plume himself 
on this very thing, as being a smart fellow to ' put 
over ' an unjust act and cunningly to try every dodge 
and practice,** every evasion, and wriggle* out of every 
hold in defeating justice, and that too for trifles and 
worthless things, because he does not know how much 
nobler and better it is to arrange his life so as to 
have no need' of a nodding jurj'man ? " " That is," 
said he, " still more shameful than the other." " And 
to require medicine," said I, " not merely for wounds 
or the incidence of some seasonal maladies, but, 
because of sloth and such a regimen as we described, 
to fill one's body up with winds and humours like a 

insensitiveness to the KaXov of the banausic, the nouveau riche 
and the Philistine. 

"* The phrasing of this passage recalls p«issages of Aristo- 
phanes' Clouds, and the description of the pettifo^ing 
lawyer and politician in the Theaetetus 172 e. Cf. infra 
319, also Euthydem. 302 b, and Porphyry, De abstimntla, 
i. 34. The metaphors are partly from wrestling. 

• Cf. Blaydes on Aristoph. Knights 263. 

' Cf. Gorg. 507 d, Thucyd. iii. 82, Isoc. Antid. 238, 
Antiphanes, fr. 288 Kock 6 fjLjjdiv dSiKuf ovSeyds Selrot vofiov. 



TTiTrXaiiivovs <j>'uaas re /cat Kardppovs voorjixaaiv 
ovoixara Ttdeadai dvayKa^eLV tovs KOjjiipovs 'A- 
aKX7]7ndBas , ovk alaxpov SoKel; Kat fxdX\ €(f)r), 
d)s dXrjdcos Kaivd ravra /cat droira voarjiJidrcov 
ovofJLara. Ola, -^v 8' eyoj, (Ls ot/xat, ovk rjv ctt' 
AcrKXr]7TLOV' reKixalpopiai he, on avrov ol utet? 

E €v Tpota KvpvTTvXcp T€Tpa>p.evcp ctt' olvov Ilpa- 
fiveiov dX(f)LTa ttoAAo. eTrnraadevra Kat, rvpov errt- 
406 ^vadevra, d 8r] So/cet <j>Xeyp.ard>hri etvat, ovk 
eixeiJufjavTO rfj Sovarj Tneiv, ovSe IlarpoKXcp rco 
lcop.eva> eTTeripLrjaav. Kat piev h-q, e^T^, droTTOV ye 
TO TToypia ovTixis exovTi. Ovk, el y evvoeis, elnov, 
ort rfi TTaLSaycoyLKfj tcov voarjpidTCOV Tavrrj rfj vvv 
tarpLKfj irpo rod AaKXrjTTidhai ovk e)(pa)VTO, ojs 
(jiaai, TTplv ^YipohiKov yeveadai' 'HpoSt/co? he 
TTaiSorpL^rjs cov /cat voo'coS'qs yevopuevos, jUt^aj 

B yvpLvaarriKrjv tarpLK-fj, dTreKvaiae Trpcbrov pcev /cat 
pLaXiara eavrov, eVetr' dXXovs varepov ttoXXovs. 
Ylfj hrj; e(f)rj, M^aKpov, rjv S' eyco, tov Odvarov 
avro) TTOLTjaas. TrapaKoXovOdJv yap rw vo(7r]p,aTL 
OavauipLO) ovtl ovre IdaaadaL, ot/itat, otd? t' tjv 
eavTov, ev da)(oXia re TrdvTcuv larpevopLevos hid 
^Lov e^rj dTTOKvaLopievos , et ti ttjs elcodvlas Siairrjs 

" Plato ridicules the unsavoury metaphors required to 
describe the effects of auto-intoxication. There is a similar 
bit of somewhat heavier satire in Spencer's Social Statics, 
1868, p. 32: " Carbuncled noses, cadaverous faces, foetid 
breaths, and plethoric bodies meet us at every turn; 
and our condolences are perpetually asked for headaches, 
flatulences, nightmare, heartburn, and endless other dyspeptic 

* Plato is probably quoting from memory. In our text, 
II. xi. 624, Hecamede gives the draught to Machaon and 
Nestor as the Ion (538 b) correctly states. 


marsh and compel the ingenious sons of Aesculapius 
to invent for diseases such names as fluxes and 
flatulences — don't you think that disgraceful ? " " 
" Those surely are," he said, " new-fangled and 
monstrous strange names of diseases." " There was 
nothing of the kind, I fancy," said I, " in the days 
of Aesculapius. I infer this from the fact that at 
Troy his sons did not find fault \vith the damsel who 
gave to the wounded Eurypylus ^ to drink a posset of 
Pramnian wine plentifully sprinkled with barley and 
gratings of cheese, inflammatory ingredients of a 
surety, nor did they censure Patroclus, who was in 
charge of the case." " It was indeed," said he, " a 
strange potion for a man in that condition." " Not 
so strange," said I, " if you reflect that the former 
Asclepiads made no use of our modern coddling* 
medication of diseases before the time of Herodicus. 
But Herodicus** was a trainer and became a vale- 
tudinarian, and blended gymnastics and medicine., 
for the torment first and chiefly of himself and then 
of many successors." " How so ? " he said. " By 
lingering out his death," said I ; " for living in 
perpetual observance of his malady, which was in- 
curable, he was not able to effect a cure, but lived 
through his days unfit for the business of life, suffering 
the tortures of the damned if he departed a whit 

' This coddling treatment of disease, which Plato affects 
to reprobate here, he recommends from the point of view 
of science in the Timaeus (89 c) : bib TratSayoryuv Sfl Siairan, 
etc. Cf. Eurip. Orestes 883; and even in the Republic 
459 c. 

" Cf. Protag. 316 e, Phaedr. 227 d. To be distinguished 

from his namesake, the brother of Gorgias in Gorg. 448 b. 

Cf. Cope on Aristot. Rhet. i. 5, Wilamowitz-Kiessling, PAj7. 

Unt. XV. p. 220, Jiithner, Philostratus fiber Gymnastikf p. 10. 

VOL. I T 273 


eKpairj, Svadavarcov Se vtto ao(f)ias els yrjpas 
acpiKero. KaXov apa to yipas, e(f)r], rrjg re^vrj? 

C rjveyKaro. Olov eiKos, rjv 8' eyco, top /jL-q elSora, 
on AaKXr]7n6s ovk ayvoia ovhe aTretpta rovTov 
rod etSofS' rrjs larpLKrjs rols eKyovois ov Kar- 
€0€igev avTO, dAA' eiSco? on Traat rols evvo/iov- 
fxevots epyov n eKaarco iv rfj irdAet TrpoareraKrat., 
o avayKotov ipydS^eadai, /cat ovSevl oxoXt) 8ia 
piov KapLvetv larpevopbevcp- o rjfiets yeXoicos inl 
fjiev rojv hrjpLLovpycbv alaOavofxeda, eVt 8e roJv 
ttXovgiojv re /cat evhaipiovwv Bokovvtcov etvai ovk 
aladavofJLcda. IlcDs"; e(f)rj. 

D XV, TeKTCov fjL€V, '^v S' eyo), Kayivwv d^iot 
Trapa rov larpov (f)dppiaKov 7nd>v i^efieaai ro 
voarjjxa t] Kdrco Kadapdels rj /caucret r) TOfxfj ^(^pr^ad- 
fxevos avrjXXdxOaf idv 84 tls avro) fxaKpdv hiairav 
TTpoardrrr} , TrtAtSta re Trepl rrjv Ke^aXrjv ■nepirtdels 
/cat Tct rovTOLs eTTOfxeva, ra^v elirev on ov axoXr] 
Kdfxveiv ovSe XvaireXel ovroi t,fjv, voa'qjjian rov 

" Cf. Macaulay on Mitford's History of Greece : '* It 
(oligarchical government) has a sort of valetudinarian long- 
evity ; it lives in the balance of Sanctorius ; it takes no 
exercise ; it exposes itself to no accident ; it is seized with a 
hypochondriac alarm at every new sensation ; it trembles at 
every breath ; it lets blood for every inflammation ; and 
thus, without ever enjoying a day of health or plea.sure, drags 
out its existence to a doting and debilitated old age." That 
Macaulay here is consciously paraphrasing Plato is apparent 
from his unfair use of the Platonic passage in his essay on 
Bacon. Cf. further Eurip. Supp. 1109-1113; Seneca on 
early medicine. Epistles xv. 3 (95) 14 ff., overdoes both 
Spencer and Macaulay. Cf. Rousseau, Emile, Book I. : 
"Je ne sais point apprendre a vivre a qui ne songe qu'a 



from his fixed regimen, and struggling against death 
by reason of his science he won the prize of a doting 
old age." " " A noble prize * indeed for his science," 
he said. " The appropriate one," said I, " for a man 
who did not know that it was not from ignorance or 
inacquaintance with this type of medicine that 
Aesculapius did not discover it to his descendants, 
but because he knew that for all well-governed 
peoples there is a work assigned to each man in the 
city which he must perform, and no one has leisure 
to be sick * and doctor himself all his days. And this 
we absurdly enough perceive in the case of a crafts- 
man, but don't see in the case of the rich and so-called 
fortunate." " How so ? " he said. 

XV. " A carpenter," said I, " when he is sick 
expects his physician to give him a drug which will 
operate as an emetic on the disease, or to get rid of it 
by purging ** or the use of cautery or the knife. But if 
anyone prescribes for him a long course of treatment 
with swathings * about the head and their accompani- 
ments, he hastily says that he has no leisure to be 
sick, and that such a life of preoccupation with his 

s'empecher de mourir;" La Rochefoucauld {Max. 282): 
" C'est une ennuyeuse maladie que de conserver sa sante par 
un trop grand regime." 

* The pun yvpoLs and yepas is hardly translatable. Cf. 
Pherecydes apud Diog. Laert. i. 119 x^°'-"-V ^^ ivofjui eyivtro 
Ft), iirubr} ai'-rj Zaj yrjy ytpas diSoi (vol. 1. p. 124 L.C.L.). 
For the ironical use of KaXdc cf. Eurip. Cyclops 351, Sappho, 
fr. 5S (58). 

' Cf. Plutarch, De sanitate tuenda 23, Sophocles, fr. 
88. 11 (?), Lucian, Nigrinus 22, differently; Hotspur's, 
" Zounds ! how has he the leisure to be sick ? " 

"* For 9) KCLTta cf. Chaucer, "Ne upward purgative ne 
downward laxative." 
• • Cf. Blaydes on Aristoph. Achamians 439. 



vovv npoaexovTa, rrjs 8e TrpoKeijJievrjs ipyaaiag 
dfxeXovvTa- /cat [xera ravra x^^P^'-^ eLTTivv rco 

^ TotovTW larpo), els rrjv elcodvlav hianav ifi^ds, 
vyiTjs yevofJLevos Cfj rd eavrov Trpdrrcov edv 8e jxtj 
LKavov fj TO adjfia inreveyKelv, reXevr-qaas rrpay- 
fiaTOJv dTTTjXXdyrj. Kai rco tolovtco fiev y , ^(j^rj, 
hoK€L 7Tp€Tr€LV OVTWS larpiKrj XPV^^^'" '^p'j V^ 
iv< 5 eyco, on rjv ri avrco epyov, o et /x?) TTparroi, ovk 
iXvatreXet, Cfji'; A.rjXov, €(f)rj. '0 8e hrj rrXovacos, 
a)S (f)aiJL€v, ovSev cx^i roiovrov epyov TrpoKeijjievov, 
ov dvayKat,opL€va) drrex^cydaL d^iojTOV. Ovkovv Srj 
Xeyerai ye. Q)<x}KvXihov ydp, -^v 8' eyw, ovk 
aKoveis, TTOJS (f)rjal helv, orav tco TJBr] ^los fj, 
dperrjv doKelv. Ot/xat 8e ye, e^T], Kai rrporepov. 
Mr]8ev, eiTTOv, Trepl tovtov avrco pLaxioixeda, aAA' 
rjpids avTOVS SiSd^copiev, TTorepov ixeXerrjTeov tovto 

B TO) vXoVGLOJ /cat d^LOJTOP TO) p-Tj peXeTcovTi, t) 
voaorpo^ia reKTOvcKfj p,ev /cat rat? aAAat? rexvais 
epnohLov rfj vpoae^ei rov vov, to he ^ojkvXlSov 
7rapaKeXevp,a ovSev e/x7ro8t^et. Nat pa tov Aia, 
rj 8' og, ax^Sop ye tl TrdvTcov p,dXiara rj ye 
TTepaiTepoj yvpvaariKrjg rj TrepirTrj avTiq cttl- 
p^eXeta rov ad)p,aros' /cat ydp vpos oiKovopLLag /cat 
Trpos arparelas /cat vpos eSpaiovs ev noXei dpxds 
SvaKoXos. To Se St] pbeyiarov, on /cat irpos 

° This alone marks the humour of the whole passage, 
which Macaulay's Essay on Bacon seems to miss. Cf. 
Aristoph. Acharnians 757; Apology 41 d. 

" The line of Phocylides is toyed with merely to vary the 
expression of the thought. Bergk restores it Stfijo-^at ^lor-qv, 
apeTT)!/ 5' 6rav fi fSios ijdrj, which is Horace's {Ep. i. 1. 53 f.): 

Quaerenda pecunia primum est; 
Virtus post nummos ! 



illness and neglect of the work that lies before him 
isn't worth living. And thereupon he bids fare- 
well to that kind of physician, enters upon his 
customary way of Hfe, regains his health, and lives 
attending to his afFairs^-or, if his body is not equal to 
the strain, he dies and is freed from all his troubles." " 
" For such a man," he said, " that appears to be the 
right use of medicine." " And is not the reason," I 
said, " that he had a task and that life wasn't wortli 
acceptance on condition of not doing his work ? " 
" Obviously," he said. " But the rich man, we say, 
has no such appointed task, the necessity of abstaining 
from which renders life intolerable." " I haven't 
heard of any." " Why, haven't you heard that 
saying of Phocylides,* that after a man has ' made his 
pile ' he ought to practise virtue ? " " Before, too, 
I fancy," he said. " Let us not quarrel \^ith him on 
that point," I said, " but inform ourselves whether 
this \-irtue is something for the rich man to practise, 
and life is intolerable if he does not, or whether we 
are to suppose that while valetudinarianism is a hind- 
rance to single-minded attention to carpentry and the 
other arts, it is no obstacle to the fulfilment of Pho- 
cylides' exhortation." " Yes, indeed," he said, " this 
excessive care for the body that goes beyond simple 
gymnastics*^ is about the greatest of all obstacles. 
For it is troublesome in household affairs and military 
service and sedentary offices in the city." "And, chief 
of all, it puts difficulties in the way of any kind of 

' In the Gorgias (464 b) iarpiKr) is recognized as co-ordinate 
in the care of the body with yvfivaariKri. Here, whatever 
goes beyond the training and care that will preserve the 
health of a normal body is austerely rejected. Cf. 410 b. 



fiaO-qcreis darTtva<7ovv /cat eVi'OT^aei? re Kal fxeXdras 
C npos iavTOV p^aAeTr?^, K€<f)aXrjs rivas aUl Sia- 
Tctaei?^ /cat IXiyyovs VTroTrrevovaa /cat alTLajfievTi 
€K <f)LXoao(f)La£ eyyiyveadaL, (Zare, otttj ravTr) 
aperr) aa/cetTat /cat So/ct^a^erat, Trdvrrj e/MTToSio?* 
KO-ixveiv yap o'Uadat 770tet det /cat (hhivovra pL-qiroTe 
Xijyetv 7T€pl rod awfMaros. Et/cos" y', e^")?- Oy/cow 
Tavra yiyvojoKovra ipcofjcev /cat 'Aa/cAi777t6v tou? 
jtiep <^va€L T€ /cat Siairr) vyieivcos exovras to. 
D aoipiara, vocrrjjxa Se rt dTTOKeKpijxivov taxovrag iv 
avroLs, rovTOis fxev /cat ravrr] rfj e^et /caraSet^at 
laTpiK'qv, (^apixaKOLS re /cat rofxats rd voar^p^ara 
eK^dXXovra avrajv rrju eicodvlav TrpoardrTeiv 
hiairav, Iva fXTj rd TroAtrt/ca /SAarrrot, ra S' etaoj 
8td Trai^TO? vevoaiqKora adofiaTa ovk iinx^ipelv 
StaiTat? /card afiuKpov aTravrXovvra /cat eTTix^ovra 
jxaKpov Kal KaKov ^iov dvdpcoTTO) TTOietv, /cat 
eKyova avTcov, (hs to et/co?, erepa Toiavra (f)VT€V€LV, 
E dAAct Tov firj Svi'dixeuov iv rfj KadearrjKVLa TreptdSo) 
i,fjv jXYj o'Uadai h^iv depaTreveiv, co? ovr€ avTco ovre 
TToXet XvaireXrj; IIoAtTt/cdp', e^^, Xdyeus 'Act/cAt^- 
TTtdt'. Ai]Xov, rjv S' eyo)-^ /cat ot TratSes" avrov, 
^ diaTOLcrcreis Galen : SLacTrdcreis mss., plainly wrong. 
^ 8fi\ov, Tjv 5' ^701 kt\.] this, the ms. reading, will not construe 
smoothly, and many emendations have been proposed, none 
of which seriously affects the sense. I have translated 
Schneider's transposition of on toioCtos fjv after iyw and 

before Kal. 

" As Macaulay, Essay on " Bacon," puts it : " That a vale- 
tudinarian . . . who enjoyed a hearty laugh over the Queen of 
Navarre's tales should be treated as a caput lupinum because 
he could not read the Timaeits without a headache, was a 
notion which the humane spirit of the English schools of 
wisdom altogether rejected." For tlie thought cf. Xen. Mem. 
iii. 12. 6-7. 


instruction, thinking, or private meditation, forever 
imagining headaches " and dizziness and attributing 
their origin to philosophy. So that wherever this 
kind of virtue is practised * and tested it is in every 
way a hindrance. "^ For it makes the man always 
fancy himself sick and never cease from anguishing 
about his body." " Naturally," he said. " Then 
shall we not say that it was because Asclepius knew 
this — that for those who were by nature and course 
of life sound of body but had some localized disease, 
that for such, I say, and for this habit he revealed the 
art of medicine, and, driving out their disease by drugs 
and surgery, prescribed for them their customary 
regimen in order not to interfere vWth their civic 
duties, but that, when bodies were diseased inwardly 
and throughout, he did not attempt by diet and 
by gradual evacuations and infusions to prolong a 
wTctched existence for the man and have him beget 
in all hkelihood similar \\Tetched offspring ? But if a 
man was incapable of li\ing in the established round <* 
and order of life, he did not think it worth while to 
treat him, since such a fellow is of no use either to 
himself or to the state." " A most politic Asclepius 
you're telling us of,* " he said. " Obviously," said I, 

* Literally "virtue is practised in this way." Cf. 503 d 
for a similar contrast between mental and other labours. 
And for the meaning of virtue cf. the Elizabethan : " Virtue 
is ever sowing of her seeds." 

« There is a suggestion of Stoic terminology in Plato's 
use of ifiiroOLO! and similar words. Cf. Xen. M(m. i. 2. 4. On 
the whole passage cf. again Macaulay's Essay on " Bacon," 
Maximus of Tyre (Duebn.) 10, and the diatribe on modern 
medicine and valetudinarianism in Edward Carpenter's 
Civilization, Its Cause and Cure. "* Cf. Thucyd. i. 130. 

« There is a touch of comedy in the Greek. Cf. Eupolis, 
fr. 94 Kock raxw X^yeis fUv. 



OTt TOiovTOS '^v, ovx opas COS /cat iv TpoLO, dyaOol 

408 TTpos Tov TToXejjLov e(l)dvrjcrav, Kal rfj larpiKfj, (Lg 

eyd) Xeyo), ixpcjvro; r) ov ixeixvrjaai, on Kal to) 

MeveXecx) €K tov Tpavfiaros ov 6 UdvSapos e^aXev 

alfx eKiivl,riaavr ctti r -qTria 0(x/)jU,a/<' eTraaaov, 

6 TV 8' ^XPW H'^'^^ rovTo i) TTielv ri (f>ayeZv ovZkv 
fidXXov rj Tcp KvpvTTvXcp TTpoairarrov, (Ls iKavcov 
OVTOJV Tcbv ^apfxdKcov idaaadai dvSpas rrpo rwv 
TpavfxdTcov vyi.€Lvovs re Kal Koafitovs iv StaLrr], 

B Kav el rvxpiev iv rep Trapaxp^jP'O. KVKeoJva Tnovreg, 
voacoSr] Be <f)V(Tei re Kat aKoXaaTov ovre avrols 
ovre rot? aAAotS' coovto XvaLxeXelv t,fjv, ovS' eVt 
TOVTOLs TT]v TexvTjv Selv eti^at, ouSe depaTrevreov 
avTovs, oi)S' el Mi8ov TrXovaicorepOL elev. Yldvv 
Kopufjovs, e(f)'r], Xeyeis 'AaKX7]7nov TratSas". 

XVI. UpeTTei,, -qv 8' eyco' Kairoi aTreidovvres 
ye 'qpuv ol rpaycphioTTOiol re Kal HivSapog 'AttoA- 
Xcovos fiev (jiaaiv ' AcrKXr^Tnov elvac, vtto 8e xP^'^ov 

C Treiadrjvai TrXovaiov dvSpa davdaipLov rjSr] ovra 
Idaaadai, odev hrj Kal Kepavvcodrjvai, avrov. rjp.€Ls 
Se Kara rd TTpoeipiqp,eva ov 7Tei96p.e6a avrols dp,- 
<f)6repa, aAA' el p,ev deov rjv, ovk ■^v, (f)TJaop.ev, 
alaxpoKepS-qs, el 8' alaxpoKepSiqs, ovk '^v deov. 
^OpOorara, rj 8' o?, ravrd ye. dXXd Trepl rovBe 
tL Xeyeis, cb TicoKpares ; dp^ ovk dyaOovs Bel 
iv rfj TToXei KeKrijadai larpovs; eiev 8' dv ttov 

" Cf. the Homeric 9j ov iJ.4fjLVTi ; 

* Plato is quoting loosely or adapting II. iv. 218. at/M' 
iKfiv^Tjffas ^tt' ap i'lwia. <pa.p/j.aKa etStlis trdaa-e is said of Machaon, 
not of Menelaus. 

' Proverbial and suggests Tyrtaeus. Cf. Imws 660 e. 


' that was his character. And his sons too, don't 
you see that at Troy they approved themselves 
good fighting-men and practised medicine as I 
described it ? Don't you remember*' that in the 
case of Menelaus too from the wound that Pandarus 

They sucked the blood, and soothing simples sprinkled ? " 
But what he was to eat or drink thereafter they no 
more prescribed than for Eurypylus, taking it for 
granted that the remedies sufficed to heal men who 
before their wounds were healthy and temperate in 
diet even if they did happen for the nonce to drink 
a posset ; but they thought that the hfe of a man 
constitutionally sickly and intemperate was of no use 
to himself or others, and that the art of medicine 
should not be for such nor should they be given treat- 
ment even if they were richer than Nlidas.*^ " " Very 
ingenious fellows," he said, " you make out these 
sons of Asclepius to be." 

XVI. " 'Tis fitting," said I ; " and yet in disregard 
of our principles the tragedians and Pindar ** affirm 
that Asclepius, though he was the son of Apollo, was 
bribed by gold to heal a man already at the point of 
death, and that for this cause he was struck by the 
lightning. But we in accordance \nth the aforesaid 
principles * refuse to believe both statements, but if 
he was the son of a god he was not avaricious, we 
will insist, and if he was greedy of gain he was not 
the son of a god." " That much," said he, " is most 
certainly true. But what have you to say to this, 
Socrates, must we not have good physicians in our 
city ? And they would be the most hkely to be good 

■* Cf. Aeschyl. Ag. 1022 ff., Eurip. Alcest. 3-4, Pindar, 
Pi/th. iii. 53. • Cf. 379 fiF., also 365 e. 



IxaXiara tolovtol, ogol ttAcicttous' fi€v vyieLVOvs, 
D TrXeicTTOvs Se voudtheis iJierex^tpiaavro , /cat Si^a- 
CTxat av (jjaavrcos ol TravToSaTralg (f>vaecnv (v/xl- 
XrjKOTeg. Kai fidXa, eiTTOV, dyadovs Xeyco- dAA' 
oXada ovs TjyovfiaL tolovtovs; *Av ei-nr^s, €(f>7]. 
'AAAa 7retpaCTo/xat, -^v S' iyco' av /xeVroi ovx 
ofjLoiov TTpdyfia tw avra> Xoyco rjpov. Rajs'; €(f)rj. 
'larpot jxev, cIttov, Setvoraroi dv yevoLVTO, el in- 
iraihcov dp^ajjievoi npos rat jj-avdaveiv rrjv Te^v^v 
a»9 TrXeLarois re /cat irovripoTdTOis acopiaaLv ofiiXi]- 
E CTetav /cat aurot Traaa? voaovg /ca/xoter /cat etev ixrj 
Ttdw vyieLvol cjjvaei. ov ydp, oi/Aat, crco/xart aoj^a 
depaTTeuovGLV ov ydp dv avrd evexcopet /ca/cd etj^at 
TTore /cat yeveaOaf dXXa ipvxjj adjfxa, fj ovk 
iyXCop€i KaKTjV yevopLevqv re /cat ovaav ev tl 
depanevcLv. ^OpOu)s, €cf)'r]. AiKaarrjs Se ye, o) 
409 ^t'Ae, ^vxfl ^^XV^ dpx^i, fj OVK iyxojpei e'/c veas 
ev TTOV-qpalg i^vxalg Tedpa(f)9ai re /cat djjjLiXrjKevaL 
/cat Trdvra dhiKr^pLara avrrjv rjhiKrjKvlav Ste^eAry- 
Xvdevat, cjare o^ecog d<f>' avrrjs TeKfiaLpeaOat rd 
TcJov dXXcov dSt/cr^/xara, otov Kara ad)p,a voaovs' 
dAA' aTTetpov avrrjv /cat dKepatov Set KaKwv rj9cov 
veav ovaav yeyovevac, el /MeAAet KaXrj Kayadrj ovaa 
Kpiveiv vyL(jJS rd St/cata. Sto §17 /cat evrjdeLs veoi 
ovres ol eTnet/cet? (f)aLVovrai /cat eve^aTrdnqroi, vtto 
B TtDv dSt/ccop', are ovk exovreg ev eavrols TrapaSely- 
/Ltara oixoLOTradrj tols TTovrjpoLs. Kat p.ev 8-q, e(f>r], 
a(f>68pa ye avro irdaxovaLv. Toiydproi, •^v 8' 

o Slight colloquial jest. Cf. Aristoph. Eq. 1158, Pax 1061. 

* Cf. Gorg. 465 c-u. 


who had treated the greatest number of healthy and 
diseased men, and so good judges would be those who 
had associated with all sorts and conditions of men." 
" Most assuredly I want them good," I said ; " but 
do you know whom I regard as such ? " "I'll know 
if you tell," " he said. " Well, I will try," said I. 
" You, however, have put unhke cases in one 
question." " How so ? " said he. " Physicians, it 
is true," I said, " would prove most skilled if, from 
childhood up, in addition to learning the principles 
of the art they had famiharized themselves ^\-ith the 
greatest possible number of the most sickly bodies, 
and if they themselves had suffered all diseases and 
were not of very healthy constitution. For you see 
they do not treat the body by the body.* If they did, 
it would not be allowable for their bodies to be or to 
have been in e\il condition. But they treat the body 
with the mind — and it is not competent for a mind 
that is or has been e\il to treat anything well." 
" Right," he said. " But a judge, mark you, my 
friend, rules soul with soul and it is not allowable for 
a soul to have been bred from youth up among e\il 
souls and to have grown familiar with them, and itself 
to have run the gauntlet of every kind of wTong-doing 
and injustice so as quickly to infer from itself the 
misdeeds of others as it might diseases in the body, 
but it must have been inexperienced in evil natures 
and uncontaminated by them while young, if it is to 
be truly fair and good and judge soundly of justice. 
For which cause the better sort seem to be simple- 
minded in youth and are easily deceived by the 
wicked, since they do not have within themselves 
patterns answering to the affections of the bad." 
'■ That is indeed their experience," he said. " There- 



eyc6, ov veov aXXa yepovra Set tov ayadov 8t/ca- 
arrjv elvat, oifjLjxadi] yeyovora rrjs aSi/ctas olov 
ecrriv ovk oiKeiav ev rfj avrov tpv)(fj evovaav 
fja6r]fM€Vov, dAA' aXXorpiav iv dXXorptais /xe/xeAe- 
TrfKora iv ttoXXw xpovco hiaKjO dvead ai , olov 7Te(f)VK€ 

C KaKov, eTnarinp.rj , ovk efXTreipia ot/ceia Kexprjfievov. 
TcvvaLOTaros yovv, €(f)rj, golkcv elvai 6 toiovtos 
SiKaar7]s. Kat dyaOos ye, rjv 8' iyco, o av rjpcoras' 
6 yap exiov ipv^-qv dyadrjv dyaOos. 6 Se Setvo? 
CKelvos Kat Ka)(VTTonros, o ttoXXo. avros rjStKr^Kws 
Kal navovpyos re /cat GO(f>6s OLO/xevos elvat, orav 
fiev opLOLOLs 6p.t,Xf], Seivos (fiaLverai i^evXa^oufJievos, 
npos rd iv avrco TrapaSeiyfiara dnoGKOTTaJv 
orav 8e dyadoXs /cat irpea^vrepoLS rjSr] TrXfjatdar) , 

D d^iXrepos av (jyaiverai, dmarcov rrapd Kaipov /cat 
dyvodjv vyLes rjdos, are ovk e^cov TrapdSeiyjJia rov 
TOiovTOV TrXeovaKis 8e TTOvrjpoZs y) ;^/37iCTTOtS' ivTvy- 
)(dvojv ao(f>ci)Tepos r] djxadiarepos hoKel elvai avrco 
re Kal dXXocs. YlavrdTraoi fxev ovv, €(f)r], dXrjdrj. 

XVII. Ov roLvvv, Tjv 8' iyci), roiovrov ■)(pr) rov 
SiKaarrjv t,rjrelv rov dyadov re /cat ao<j>6v, dXXd 
rov TTporepov. rrovrjpia fiev yap dper-qv re Kal 
avrrjv oviror dv yvolr], aperrj 8e (j)vaea)s naiSevo- 

E ^levrjs XP'^^V ^H-*^ avrrjs Te Kal TTOvrjpLas imarT^- 

" o^j/LixaOrj : here in a favourable sense, but usually an un- 
translatable Greek word for a type portrayed in a character 
of Theophrastus. 

" For this type of character cf. Thucyd. iii. 83, and my 
comments in T.A.P.A. vol. xxiv. p. 79. Cf. Burke, Letter 
to the Sheriffs of Bristol: "They who raise suspicions on 
the good on account of the behaviour of ill men, are of the 
party of the latter ; " Stobaeus ii. p. 46 Bias i<fyri, ol dyadol 
eva-rrdTTiTot, Menander, fr. 84a Kock XP'?"''""^ '"'"■P' eLvdpos 

fXT]5^V VTTOvbei KaKOV, 



fore it is," said I, " that the good judge must not be 
a youth but an old man, a late learner ^ of the nature 
of injustice, one who has not become aware of it as a 
property in his o-wn soul, but one who has through the 
long years trained himself to understand it as an aUen 
thing in alien souls, and to discern how great an e\il it 
is by the instrument of mere knowledge and not by 
experience of his own." " That at any rate," he 
said, " appears to be the noblest kind of judge." 
" And what is more, a good one," I said, " which was 
the gist of vour question. For he who has a good 
soul is good. But that cunning fellow quick to 
suspect e\i\,^ and who has himself done many unjust 
acts and who thinks himself a smart trickster, when 
he associates with his like does appear to be clever, 
being on his guard and fixing his eyes on the patterns 
within himself. But when the time comes for him to 
mingle with the good and his elders, then on the 
contrary he appears stupid. He is unseasonably 
distrustful and he cannot recognize a sound character 
because he has no such pattern in himself. But 
since he more often meets with the bad than the 
good, he seems to himself and to others to be rather 
wise than foolish." " That is quite true," he said. 

XVII. " Well then," said I, " such a one must not 
be our ideal of the good and wise judge but the former. 
For while badness could never come to know both 
virtue and itself, native \irtue through education will 
at last acquire the science of both itself and badness.*^ 

* Cf. George Eliot, Adam Bede, chap. xiv. : " It is our 
habit to say that while the lower nature can never understand 
the higher, the higher nature commands a complete view of 
the lower. But I think the higher nature has to learn this 
comprehension by a good deal of hard experience." 



fiTjv \rnf}erai. ao(f)6s ovv ovtos, co? /xot So/cei, aAA 
ovx 6 KaKos yiyverai. Kat e/xot, e^^, ^vvhoKeZ. 
OvKovv /cat larptK-qv, olav €L7to[X€v, /xera tt^s" 
TOiavTTjs St,KaaTi,K7Js Kara ttoXcv vofJioOerT^aeis, at 
rGiv ttoXltcov aoL rovs fi€v evcfjuelg ra cjcojuara /cat 
410 TOLS ifjv)(as deparrevaovai, rovs Se ^Ltrj, oaoi /xev 
/cara crcofia roiovroi, drrodv-qaKeiv edaovai, rovs 
Be Kara rrjv ifjvx^v KaKocfivels /cat dvtdrovs aurot 
arroKrevovaiv ; To yovv dpiarov, €(f)T], avrols tc 
rots Trdaxovai /cat rfj ttoXci ovrco Tre^avrat. Ot 
8e Srj veoL, rjv 8' eyct», 8'^Aoi' on, evXa^rjOOvrai aoi 
SiKaartKTJs els xpetat' teVat, tt^ aTrXfj eKeivrj fxov- 
acKrj )(^pa)fX€voL, rjv Srj ecjiafxev aco(f)poavvrjv iv- 
riKreiv. Tt fnjv; ^'j^V' ^-^p' o^^' o^ Kara ravrd 
B t;)^i^7^ ravra 6 fiovatKos yvfivaarcK-qv Slcokwv, idv 
ideXr], alp'jaeL, Mare jx'qSev larpiKrjs SelaOai 6 rt, 
fXT] dvdyKrj; "E^otye So/cet. Avrd fxrjv ra yvfi- 
vdaia /cat rovs ttovovs Trpos ro 6vfioei,8es rrjs 
<f)vaecos ^XeTTOJV KdKelvo eyeipa>v TTOvrjaei fxdXXov 
^ TTpos loxvv, ovx djcT'^^P ol dXXoL ddXr]raL pcofirjs 
eVe/ca atria Kal ttovovs pLeraxeipi^ovrat. Op96- 
rara, rj 8' os. ^Ap' ovv, ■^v 8' iyo), c5 TXavKcov, 

°- Cf. Theaetet. 176 d " It is far best not to concede to the 
unjust that they are clever knaves, for they glory in the 
taunt." Cf. Unity of Vlato's Thought, n. 21. 

'' Only the incurable suffer a purely exemplary and 
deterrent punishment in this world or the next. Cf. infra 
615 E, Protag. 335 a, Gorg. 525 c, Phaedo 113 e. 

" ultro, as opposed to ida-ovaiv. 

■* Cf. 405 c. Plato always allows for the limitation of the 
ideal by necessity. 

' The welfare of the soul is always the prime object for 



This one, then, as I think, is the man who proves 
to be wise and not the bad man." " " And I concur," 
he said. " Then will you not establish bv law in 
your city such an art of medicine as we have described 
in conjunction with this kind of justice ? And these 
arts will care for the bodies and souls of such of 
your citizens as are truly well born, but of those 
who are not, such as are defective in body they will 
suffer to die and those who are e\il-natured and 
incurable ^ in soul they will themselves*^ put to death." 
" This certainly," he said, " has been shown to be 
the best thing for the sufferers themselves and for 
the state." " And so your youths," said I, " employ- 
ing that simple music which we said engendered 
sobriety will, it is clear, guard themselves against 
falhng into the need of the justice of the court-room." 
" Yes," he said. " And will not our musician, pur- 
suing the same trail in his use of gymnastics, if he 
please, get to have no need of medicine save when 
indispensable'*?" "I think so." "And even the 
exercises and toils of gymnastics he will undertake 
with a view to the spirited part of his nature * to 
arouse that rather than for mere strength, unhke 
ordinarv" athletes, who treat' diet and exercise only 
as a means to muscle." " Nothing could be truer," 
he said. " Then may we not say, Glaucon," said I, 

Plato. (C/. 591 c.) But he cannot always delay to correct 
ordinary speech in this sense. The correction of 376 e here 
is of course not a change of opinion, and it is no more a 
criticism of Isocrates, Antld. 180-185, than it is of Gorgias 
464 B, or Soph. 228 e, or Rep. 521 e. 

f /xfTaxfipifoj'Tai : this reading of Galen is more idiomatic 
than the ms. MfTaxetptetrai. Where English says " he is not 
covetous of honour as other men are," Greek says " he (is) 
not as other men are covetous of honour." 



/cat ol KadiaTOLVTes fMovaiKjj /cat yvfjLvaariKfj 
C TTaiSevetv ovx ov eveKoi rives oiovTai KaduaTdcnv, 
Iva rfj fiev to crcD/xa depaTrevoivro, rfj he. r-qv 
ifivxriv; 'AAAo. ri yirjv; e<^f]- Ys^ivhwevovoLV , rjv 
8' iycji), dfi(f)6Tepa rrjs ^vx^js eVe/ca to fxeyLcrrov 
Kadiardvai. Ucos B-q; Ovk ivvoels, elirov, (hs 
hiaridevTai avrrjv ttjv Sidvoiav, ot dv yujjivaaTLKij 
fxev 8id ^iov ofxiXijcrcDat, [xovacKrjs Se fJir] difjcovTai; 
r) oaoL dv rovvavriov SiaredcbaLV ; TiVo? 8e, rj 8' 
D OS, Trepi XeyeLs; 'AypLorrjTos re /cat aKXrjpoTTjTOS, 
/cat av fiaXaKuas re /cat rnjLeporrjros, rjv 8' iyco. 
"Eycoye, ^4*1 > ^'^'' °^ 1^^^ yvjxvacmKfj aKpdrcp 
Xpy)<ydp,evoi dypuvrepoi rov beovros dTTo^aivovaiv , 
ol 8e pLOvaiKfj fiaXaKwrepoi av ytyvovrat, rj cos 
/cctAAtoj/ avTOLS. Kai fnjv, fjv 8' eyco, to ye dypiov 
TO dufioethes dv rrjs (f>vae(x>s napexoLTO, /cat opdcbs 
fxev rpa(f)€v dvSpeZov dv eurj, jxaXXov 8' eTnradev 
rod Seovros OKXrjpov re /cat ;^aAe7roi' ytyt'otT' dv, 
(hs ro et/cos". Ao/cet /xot, e^Tj. Tt Be; to r^fxepov 
E ovx V <l>i'X6ao(f)os dv exoi (fivais; /cat /jidXXov fiev 
dvedevTOs avrov jxaXaKwrepov elrj rov Seovros, 
KaXcbs Be rpatjievTOs rj/xepov re Kai koctjxlov; 'EaTt 
ravra. Aelv Be ye (^apuev rovs (f>vXaKas dii(f)orepa 
ex^i'V Tovrco rw (f)vaeL. Aet ydp. Ovkovv rjpjxo- 
a6aL Bel avrds Trpos dXXrjXas; Ilcjjs 8' ov; Kat 
Tou piev rjppioapevov aaxppcov re /cat dvBpeia r] 

" Plato half seriously attributes his own purposes to 
the founders. Cf. 405-406 on medicine and Phlleb. 16 c on 

* For the thought cf. Eurip. Suppl. 882 f. and Polybius's 
account of the effect of the neglect of music on the 
Arcadians (iv. 20). 

" Cf. supra 375 c. With Plato's doctrine of the two 



that those who established " an education in music 
and gymnastics had not the purpose in \iew that 
some attribute to them in so instituting, namely to 
treat the body by one and the soul by the other ? " 
" But what ? " he said. " It seems likely," I said, 
" that they ordained both chiefly for the soul's sake." 
" How so ? " " Have you not observed," said I, 
" the effect on the disposition of the mind itself" of 
lifelong devotion to gymnastics with total neglect of 
music ? Or the disposition of those of the opposite 
habit ? " " In what respect do you mean ? " he said. 
" In respect of savagery and hardness or, on the 
other hand, of softness and gentleness ? " "I have ob- 
served," he said," " that the devotees of unmitigated 
gymnastics turn out more brutal than they should 
be and those of music softer than is good for them." 
" And surely," said I, " this savagery is a quality 
derived from the high-spirited element in our nature, 
which, if rightly trained, becomes brave, but if over- 
strained, would naturally become hard and harsh." 
" I think so," he said. " And again, is not the gentle- 
ness a quality which the philosophic nature would 
yield ? This if relaxed too far would be softer than 
is desirable but if rightly trained gentle and orderly ? " 
" That is so." " But our requirement, we say,<= is 
that the guardians should possess both natures." 
" It is." " And must they not be harmoniously 
adjusted to one another ? " " Of course." " And 
the soul of the man thus attuned is sober and brave ? " 

temperaments c/. the distinction of quick-wits and hard- 
wits in Ascham's Schoolmaster. Ascham is thinking of 
Plato, for he says : " Galen saith much music marreth men's 
manners; and Plato hath a notable place of the same thing 
in his book De rep., well marked also and excellently 
translated by Tully himself." 

VOL. I U 289 


411 iffvx'^; Ilai'y ye. Tou 8e avapixourov SetAi^ /cat 
aypoLKos ; Kat fxaXa. 

XVIII. Oi3/<:ow orav fxev tls fiovaiKfj rrapexj] 
KaravXelv Kat Kara^elv rrjs 4*^X1^ ^'^ "^^^ (vtojv 
ctJCTTrep 8ta x^^V^ ^^ ^^^ ^V VI^^^S iXeyojjiev rag 
yXvKeias re /cat /xaAa/cas" /cat Op-qvcoSeis appiovta?, 
/cat piivvpit,cjL>v re Kal yeyaucopievos vtto t^? (hSijs 
hiareXfj rov ^lov oXov, ovtos to fxev Trpojrov, ei 

B Tt dvjJLoeLhes ^^X^^> <^cr7rep aihiqpov ifxaXa^e Kat 
XP'jcrt.fJiov €^ dxpy^f^TOV Kal aKXrjpov eTTOirjaev 
orav S' eTTexcov p-rj dvirj aXXd KrjXfjy to /xera tovto 
T]8rj TrJK€L Kat Xei^ei, eois olv iKrr]^rj rov dvpuov Kat 
CKrep^r] cjOTTep vevpa eK tt]? i/jvxfjs Kat TTOfqcrr) 
piaXdaKov alxP'T^Tt^i' . Hdvv pikv ovv, €(f)r]. Kat 
idv pL€V ye, -qv S' eycv, e^ '^PXV^ <f>v(T€i. dOvpiov 
Xd^Tj, raxv rovro SieTrpd^aro' idv Se OvpLoeihfi, 
daOevfj TTOLiqGas rov dvjxov o^vpporrov dTreipydaaro, 

C 0.770 crpiiKpcbv raxv epe6i(^6p,ev6v re Kal Karaa^ev- 
vvp.evov. dKpdxoXoi ovv Kal opyiXoi dvrl 6vp,o- 
eiSovs yeyevrjvrai, SuoKoAta? epLirXeoL. K-op-iSfj p.€v 
ovv. Ti Se; dv av yvp^vacrnKji ttoAAo. TTOvfj Kal 
evcoX'^Tai ei) pidXa, pLOvaiKrjs Se Kat (jiLXoao(f>Lag 
pLTj drrrrjraL, ov TrpaJrov pikv ev laxojv ro adjpia 
(/ipovTjfiaros re Kal 6vp,ov e/XTrtrrAarat Kat dvSpeio- 

» Cf. 561 c. 

* Demetrius, Ilepl 'Ep/x. 51, quotes this and the following 
sentence as an example of the more vivid expression following 
the less vivid. For the image cf. Blaydes on Aristoph. T/iesm. 
18, Aeschyl. Choeph. 451, Shakespeare, Cymbeline ur. ii. 59 
" Love's counsellor should fill the bores of hearing." 

" Cf. 398 D-E, where the Oprji'wdeis ap/moviai are rejected 
altogether, while here they are used to illustrate the softening 
eifect of music on a hard temperament. It is misspent 
ingenuity to harp on such '* contradictions." 


" Certainly." " And that of the ill adjusted is 
cowardly and rude ? " "It surely is." 

XV'III. " Now when a man abandons himself to 
music to play " upon him and pour ^ into his soul as it 
were through the funnel of his ears those sweet, soft, 
and dirge-like airs of which we were j ust now '^ speak- 
ing, and gives his entire time to the warblings and 
blandishments of song, the first result is that the 
principle of high spirit, if he had it, is softened like 
iron •* and is made useful instead of useless and brittle. 
But when he continues * the practice without remission 
and is spellbound, the effect begins to be that he 
melts and liquefies ^ till he completely dissolves away 
his spirit, cuts out as it were the very sinews of his 
soul and makes of himself a 'feeble warrior.'"" 
" Assuredly," he said. " And if," said I, " he has 
to begin with a spiritless ^ nature he reaches this 
result quickly, but if a high-spirited, by weakening 
the spirit he makes it unstable, quickly irritated by 
slight stimuli, and as quickly quelled. The outcome 
is that such men are choleric and irascible instead of 
high-spirited, and are peevish and discontented." 
" Precisely so." " On the other hand, if a man toils 
hard at gymnastics and eats right lustily and holds no 
truck with music and philosophy, does he not at first 
get very fit and full of pride and high spirit and 

^ For images drawn from the tempering of metals cf. 
Aeschyl. Ag. 612 and Jebb on Soph. Ajax 650. 

' Cf. Theaetet. 165 e (ir^x^" f*' <"^f <i'''f's, and Blaydes 
on Aristoph. Peace 1121. 

^ Cf. Tennyson's "Molten down in mere uxoriousness " 
("Geraint and Enid "). 

» A familiar Homeric reminiscence (II. xvii. 588) quoted 
also in Symp. 174 c. Cf. Froissart's " un mol chevalier." 

* Etymologically d^i^juoj «=" deficient in dv/xdi." 



repos yiyverai avros avrov; Kat fxdXa ye. Tt 
8ai; €TT€i.Sav dXXo firjhev Trpdrrr] fir]S€ kolvcdvjj 
D MoucTTj? iJL7]SaiJirj , ovK et ti Kal ivrji' avrov (f)iXo- 
jxaOes €V rfj iffvxf]> dire ovre ixad-^fiaTos yevofxevov 
ovSevos ovre t,rjTy][xaTOS, ovre \6yov fj.€riaxov 
ovre rrfs dXXrjs fxovaiKTJs, dadeves re Kal KOi<f>6v 
Kal rv(f)X6v yiyverai, are ovk eyecpofxevov oi'Se 
rpe(j>6jxevov ovhe BiaKaBaLpofxevajv rcov alodr^aeajv 
avrov; Ovrxvs, e^^- MiaoXoyog St], olfxai,, 6 
roLOvros ytyverai /cat ajxovaos, Kal rreidol jxev Sta 
Xoycov ovhev en XPV'''^'') ^^9- ^^ '^'^^ dypiorrjn 
^ iLarrep dr^piov vpos rravra hiaiTpdrrerai, Kal ev 
d/xa^ta Kal aKaiorrjri fxerd dppvdfMtas re Kal ^fj. Havrdnaaiv, -^ 8' 6V, ovrcog €;^ei. 
'Evrt St) Su' ovre rovrco, co? eoiKe, hvo rexva deov 
eyoiy dv riva ^avi]v SeScoKevai, rot? dvdpconoLs, 
fXovuLKrjv re /cat yv/xvaariK-qv eVt to dv[xoet,8e? Kal 
ro (f)LX6ao(f)OV , ovk eirl i/jvxrjv Kal awfia, el /jltj el 
irdpepyov, dXX eir* eKeivoj, orrcDg dv dXXijXoLv 
412 ^vvapjjLoadijrov eTrtretvo/zeVw /cat dvLefievco p-expi 
rov TTpoaiqKovros. Kat yap eoiKev, e^rj. Tov 
KdXXiar' dpa pLovaiKij yvjJLvaariKr]v Kepavvvvra Kal 
fxerpicjrara rfj ^vxfj rrpoaffiepovra, rovrov opdorar^ 
dv (^aZfxev elvat reXecos p,ovaiK(Jorarov /cat ev- 
apfioarorarov, ttoXv p,dXXov 7] rov rds x^P^^^ 
dXXrjXai.s ^vvLardvra. Et/cdrca? y', ^<}>'^> <3 2cu- 

" A hater of rational discussion, as explained in Laches 
188 c, and the beautiful passage in the Pliaedo 89 d ff. Cf. 
Minucius Felix, Octavius 14. 6 " Igitur nobis providendum 
est ne odio identidem sermonum laboremus." John Morley 
describes obscurantists as " sombre hierophants of misology." 

* For virtue as "music" cf. Pliaedo 61 a. Laches 188 d, 
and lago's "There is a daily music in his life." The 



become more brave and bold than he was ? " " He 
does indeed." " But what if he does nothing but 
this and has no contact with the Muse in any way, 
is not the result that even if there was some principle 
of the love of knowledge in his soul, since it tastes 
of no instruction nor of any inquiry and does not 
participate in any discussion or any other form of 
culture, it becomes feeble, deaf, and blind, because it 
is not aroused or fed nor are its perceptions purified 
and quickened ? " " That is so," he said. " And 
so such a man, I take it, becomes a misologist " and 
a stranger to the Muses. He no longer makes any 
use of persuasion by speech but achieves all his ends 
like a beast by violence and savagery, and in his 
brute ignorance and ineptitude lives a hfe of dis- 
harmony and gracelessness." " That is entirely 
true," he said. " For these two, then, it seems there 
are two arts which I would say some god gave to 
mankind, music and gymnastics for the service of 
the high-spirited principle and the love of knowledge 
in them — not for the soul and the body except 
incidentally, but for the harmonious adjustment of 
these two principles by the proper degree of tension 
and relaxation of each." " Yes, so it appears," he 
said. " Then he who best blends gymnastics \\ith 
music and appUes them most suitably to the soul is 
the man whom we should most rightly pronounce to 
be the most perfect and harmonious musician, far 
rather than the one who brings the strings into 
unison with one another.'' " " That seems likely, 

** perfect musician " is the professor of the royal art of 
Politicus 306-308 fF. which harmonizes the two temperaments, 
not merely by education, but by eliminating extremes 
through judicious marriages. 



Kpares. Ovkovv /cat iv rfj TToAet r)[juv, c5 VXavKCov, 
Be-qaet rov roiovrov rivog del iTnardrov, el fxeXXet 

B ■Jy TToAtreta ad}t,eadai; AcT^cret fievTOL (Ls otov re 
ye ndXiara. 

XIX. Ot fiev 817 rvTTot rijs 77ai8eta? re /cat 
rpocprjs ovToi dv elev. p^op^tas' ydp tI dv ris 
Steftot Tcjjv rotovTOJV /cat drjpas re /cat Kvviqyeata 
/cat yvpiVLKovs aycovas /cat Ittttlkovs ; ax'^^^^ Y^P 
Tt Si^Aa S')7 OTt TovroLs eTTOjxeva Set aura eii'at, /cat 
ovKeri xo-Xend evpeZv. "Icrajs", 17 S' o?, oj) ;)(aAe7ra. 
Etei', 7^1/ 8' eyco* to hrj puerd tovto ti dv rjplv 
Siaipereov e'irj; dp* ovk avrcbv tovtojv otrives 

C dp^ovai re /cat dp^ovrai; Tt /xt^i/; "Ort juei/ 
TTpea^vrepovg rovs dpxovras 8et eti^at, vecorepovs 
8e Toys' dpxofievovs, SrjXov; ArjXov. Kat ort ye 
Touj apiarovs avrdJv; Kat tovto. Ot Se yecopycov 
dpiaroi dp ov yecopyiKoyraTOL yiyuovTat; Nat. 
Nw 8', eTTeihrj ^uAa/ccov auTou? dpioTOVs Set etvai, 
ap' 01) (f)vXaKLKOjTdTOVs TToXeojs; Nat. Oj3/cow 
(f)povLpLovs Te et? tovto Set virdpX'^i'V /cat Svt'aToi'S' 

D /cat ert KrjSep^ovas ttjs TToXecos; "Eart raura. 
K?j8otTO Se' y av rt? p,dXiara tovtov o Tvyxdvot. 
(/)iXdJv. ^AvdyKT]. Kat /LtT^j/ tovto y' av pidXcaTa 
<J>lXoI, (L ^vpb(f)epeLv rjyoiTO tu avrd /cat eavTO) /cat 

" This "epistates" is not the director of education of 
Laws 765 d ff., though of course he or it will control educa- 
tion. It is rather an anticipation of the philosophic rulers, 
as appears from 497 c-n. and corresponds to the nocturnal 
council of Laws 950 b ff. Cf. Unity of Plato's Thouglit, 
p. 86, note 650. 

* ydp explains tvwoi, or outlines. Both in the Republic 
and the Laws Plato frequently states that many details must 
be left to subsequent legislation. Cf. Rep. 379 a, 400 b-c. 


Socrates," he said. " And shall we not also need 
hi our city, Glaucon, a permanent overseer *" of this 
kind if its constitution is to be preserved ? " " We 
most certainly shall." 

XIX. " Such would be the outhnes of their educa- 
tion and breeding. For why * should one recite the 
h'st of the dances of such citizens, their hunts and 
chases with hounds, their athletic contests and races ? 
It is pretty plain that they must conform to these 
principles and there is no longer any difficulty in 
discovering them." " There is, it may be, no 
difficulty," he said. "Very well," said I; "what, 
then, have we next to determine ? Is it not which 
ones among them ' shall be the rulers and the ruled ? " 
" Certainly." " That the rulers must be the elder 
and the ruled the younger is obvious." " It is." 
" And that the rulers must be their best ? " " This 
too." " And do not the best of the farmers prove 
the best farmers ? " " Yes." " And in this case, 
since we want them to be the best of the guardians, 
must they not be the best guardians, the most 
regardful of the state ? " " Yes." " They must 
then to begin with be intelligent in such matters 
and capable, and furthermore careful ** of the interests 
of the state ? " " That is so." " But one would be 
most likely to be careful of that which he loved." 
" Necessarily." " And again, one would be most 
likely to love that whose interests he supposed to 

403 i>-E, 425 A-E, Laws 770 b, 772 a-b, 785 a, 788 a-b, 
807 E, 828 B, 846 c, 855 d, 876 d-e, 957 a, 968 c. 

" aiTtZ'v ToiTwv marks a class within a class. Cf. Class. 
Phil. vol. vii. (1912) p. 485. 5S5 a refers back to this passage. 

■* The argument proceeds by minute links. Cf. supra 
on 338 D. 



[oTav juaAiCTTa]^ eKeivov jxev ev TTpdrrovros ololto 
^V[.i^aLV€LV Kal eavTcv ev TTpdrreiv, jxt] he, rovvav- 
Tiov. Ovrcos, €(f>7]. 'E/cAe/CTeop' ap' ck tcjv dXXojv 
(fivXciKcov TOLovTovs dvSpag, ot dv OKorrovaiv rjiMV 
pidXiara (f>aiv(x)VTaL irapd Trdvra top ^iov, o jiev 
E av Tjj TToXei rjyrjaoiVTaL ^vptjiepeiv, Trdar] TrpoOvpua 
TTOieiv, o 8' dv p-q, p-qhevl rpoTTOj Trpd^ai dv edeXeiv. 
'ETTtTTySetot ydp, e(f)rj. AoKel Srj p,oi rr)pr]Teov 
avTovs etvai ev ctTrctaais" rats' T^Ai/ctatS", el (f)vXaKi,KOi 
eLai rovrov rod hoyp^arog /cat p^rjTe yoiqTevopLevoi 
pLTire ^Lat,6pLevoi. eK^dXXovaiv eTnXavdavopLevoi 
86^av TTjv Tov TTOietv Selv, d rfj TroAet ^eXriara. 
TtVa, e^Tj, XeyeLS, ttjv eK^oXr]v ; 'Eyoj croi, e(f}r]Vy 
ipdj. (jiaiverai poi ho^a efteVat e/c Stav'otas" t] 
413 CKovalcvs T] aKovaicos , eKovaiios pev t) ifjevSrjg rod 
p,erap,av6dvovTos , aKovaLcos 8e Trdua tj dXrjdrjs- 
To pev rrjs eKovaiov, ecfi-q, p,avddvo), to Se Trjg 
aKovalov 8eo/xat puadeZv. Tt Sat; ov Kat av y]yel, 
e(f)rjv eycx), twv pcev dyaddjv aKovuiaJS crrepeadai 
Toijs dvdpcoTTOvs, Twv 8e KaKoJv eKovGLOJs ; y] ov 
TO pev ei/jevadaL ttjs dXrjdetas KaKov, to 8e 
dXrjdeveLV dyaOov; rj ov to ra orra So^a^eiv 
dXrjdeveLV 8o/cet aot etvai; 'AAA', 77 8' o?, opda>s 
Xeyets, Kat p,oi Sokovolv aKOVTes dXrjdovs ho^rjs 
aTepiOKeadai. Ovkovv /cAaTreWe? r} yorjTevdevTes 
rj fiiaadevTes tovto Trdaxovaiv ; OuSe vvv, e(f)rj, 
pavOdvo). TpayLKcog, rjv 8' eyo), KLvSvvevoj Xeyeiv. 
^ Bracketed by Hermann. 

" Cf. Crito 46 b, Xen. Mem. iii. 12. 7. 

* Cf. on 382 A and Sophist. 228 c, Marcus Aurelius vii. 63. 

" The preceding metaphors are in the high-flown, obscure 
style of tragedy. Cf. Thompson on Meno 76 e, Cratyl. 
418 b, Aristoph. Frogs, passim, Wilamowitz, Platan, ii. p. 146. 


coincide •with his own, and thought that when it 
prospered he too would prosper and if not, the 
contrar}'." "So it is," he said. " Then we must 
pick out from the other guardians such men as to 
our observation appear most inchned through the 
entire course of their Hves to be zealous to do what 
they think for the interest of the state, and who 
would be least likely to consent to do the opposite." 
" That would be a suitable choice," he said. " I 
think, then, we shall have to observe them at every 
period of life, to see if they are conservators and 
guardians of this conviction in their minds and never 
by sorcery nor by force can be brought to expel " from 
their souls unawares this conviction that they must 
do what is best for the state." " What do you mean 
by the ' expelling ' ? " he said. " I will tell you, 
said I ; "it seems to me that the exit of a belief from 
the mind is either voluntary or involuntary, ^"olun- 
tary is the departure of the false belief from one who 
learns better, involuntary that of every true belief." 
" The voluntary," he said, " I understand, but I need 
instruction about the involuntar}-." " How now," 
said I, " don't you agree with me in thinking that 
men are unwillingly deprived of good things but 
willingly of e\il ? Or is it not an evil to be deceived 
in respect of the truth and a good to possess truth ? 
And don't you think that to opine the things that are 
is to possess the truth ? " " Why, yes," said he, 
" you are right, and I agree that men are unwilhngly 
deprived of true opinions.'' " " And doesn't this 
happen to them by theft, by the spells of sorcery or by 
force ? " "I don't understand now either," he said. 
" I must be talking in high tragic style,'' " I said ; " by 



B KXarrevTas fxev yap rovg jxeraTreiadevras Xlyoi koi 
Tovs €7nXaudavoix€vovs, on ra)v fiev )(p6vo5, T(ji)v 
Se Xoyos e^atpovfievos Xavddv€i. vvv yap ttov 
pLavSaveig ; Nat. Tovg roivvv ^laadevras Xeyoj 
ovs av ohvvT] Tis 1) aXyri^wv ixeraho^daai TTOt-qar). 
Kat TOVT , €(f)r], €[jLa6ov, Kal opdcos Xeyeis. Tovs 

C iJir}v yoTjreudevTas, o)s iyiofxai, Koiv cri) (f)acr)s elvai 
OL av pLeraho^dacoaiv rj v(f>' rj8ovfjs KrjXrjdevTes ^ 
VTTO (f)6^ov Tt Seiaavres. "Eoi/ce ydp, ^ 8' os, 
yor]T€V€i,v Trdvra ooa aTrara. 

XX. "0 roivvv dpri eXeyov, tpq-r^riov , rives 
dptaroi (f>vXaK€s rov irap avrols 86yp,aros, rovro 
<1)S 7TOir]T€ov, o dv rfj ttoXci del SoKcoai ^eXriarov 
etvai airovs TTOietv. rrjprjTeov 8rj evdvs ^k -naihcov, 
7Tpo6€jj,€voL£ €pya, €v ols dv TLs TO TOLovTov jidXiaTa 
eTTiXavOdvoiTO Kal e^aTrarcoro, /cat tov fxev pLvq- 

D jxova Kal Svae^aTrdTTjTov iyKptreov, rov Se firj 
diTOKpireov. rj ydp; Nat. Kat ttovovs ye av Kat 
dXyqSovas Kal dycovas avrols dereov, ev ols ravrd 
ravra riqprireov. ^Opdcos, e^^. Ovkovv, -^v 8' 
eyo), Kal rplrov eihovs rovrocs yorjrecas dfjciXXav 
TTOLYjreov, Kal deareov, wairep rovs ttcoXovs eirl 
rovs i/j6(^ovs re Kal dopv^ovs dyovres aKOTTOvaiv 
el (f)o^epoi, ovro) veovs ovras elg Set/Ltar' arra 

E KOfiiareov Kal els rjSovds av fjLera^Xrjreov , ^a- 
aavit,ovras ttoXv fjbd?^ov t] xP^^°^ ^^ irvpi, el 
hvayorirevros Kal evaxTJp-iov ev Trdai ^atVerat, 

" Cf. Dionysius 6 fieTadefiefos, who went over from the 
Stoics to the Cyrenaics because of pain in his eyes, Diog. 
Laert. vii. 166. 

* Cf. 584 A ymjrela. 



those who have their opinions stolen from them I 
mean those who are over-persuaded and those who 
forget, because in the one case time, in the other 
argument strips them unawares of their beliefs. Now 
I presume you understand, do you not ? " " Yes." 
" Well then, by those who are constrained or forced 
I mean those whom some pain or suffering compels " 
to change their minds." " That too I understand 
and you are right." " And the \ictims of sorcery ^ I 
am sure you too would say are they who alter their 
opinions under the spell of pleasure or terrified by 
some fear." "Yes," he said: "everything that 
deceives appears to cast a spell upon the mind." 

XX. "Well then, as I was just saying, we must 
lookforthose who are the best guardians of the indwell- 
ing conviction that what they have to do is what they 
at any time beUeve to be best for the state. Then we 
must observe them from childhood up and propose 
for them tasks in which one would be most likely to 
forget this principle or be deceived, and he whose 
memory is sure and who cannot be beguiled we must 
accept and the other kind we must cross off from our 
list. Is not that so ? " " Yes." " And again we 
must subject them to toils and pains and com- 
petitions in which we have to watch for the same 
traits." " Right," he said. " Then," said I, " must 
we not institute a third kind of competitive test with 
regard to sorcery and observe them in that .'' Just 
as men conduct colts to noises and uproar to see if 
they are Uable to take fright, so we must bring these 
lads while young into fears and again pass them into 
pleasures, testing them much more carefully than 
men do gold in the fire, to see if the man remains 
immune to such witchcraft and preserves his com- 



^vXa^ avrov cov dyadog /cat fjiovGLKrjg '^s ifidv- 
davev, evpvdfjLov re /cat evdpfJLoarov iavrov iv 
TTctat rovTOLs TTapex^ov, otos 81] dv cov /cat eavrcp 
/cat TToAet ■)(^prjaijjia)Taros etr]. /cat tov del ev re 
TratcTt /cat veavioKois /cat ei^ avSpacn jSaaa- 
il4 vil^ofievov /cat dKiqparov eK^aivovra Karaarareov 
dp)(ovTa TTJs TToXeoJs /cat cf)v\aKa, /cat Tip,ds horiov 
/cat ^cDrrt /cat TcAeyrT^CTavrt, rd<j)0)v re /cat roiv' 
aAAojp' pii'r]fM€LOJV fxeyLara yepa Xayxdvovra- tov Se 

jLtT^ TOLOVTOV d7TOKpiT€OV. TOiaVTTj Tt?, "^V" 8' Cydj, 

So/cet /i.ot, c5 rAau/C6t»v, tj eKXoyq etvaL Kai Kara- 
araais tcov dp-^6vrcx}v re /cat <f)uXaKajVy to? ev 
rvTTtp, fXTj St' d/cpt^eta?, elprjadac. Kat e//,ot, 7^ 
8* oj, ovTCo TTTj ^atVerat. ^Ap' ow co? dX'qOcos 

B opdorarov KaXelv tovtovs fiev ^uAa/ca? TravTeAet? 
Tcav' re e^codev TToXejiioiV rcov re et'TO? (juXtoiv, 
07TC0S ol fxev fjirj ^ovX^aovrai, ol 8e /ai^ Svvr^aovrai, 
KaKovpyelv , roug 8e veovg, ous vvv Srj ^uAa/ca? 
eKaXovpLev, eTTLKoupovs re /cat ^oiqdovs rot? tcoj' 
dpxovTcov SoypaoLV ; "Kpotye 80/cet, e^^]. 

XXI. Ti? ai' ow 'qplu, rjv 8' e'yti, I^IX^^ 
yevoLTO Tojv ipevScov rdjv iv Seovri yiyvopevcov, (hv 

C St) vvv iXeyopLev, yevvalov rt ei^ ipevBopievovs Treiaat 
fidXiara fxev /cat avrovs rovs dp^ovras, ei 8e /xt^, 
riyt' dXXrjv TToXiv; Ilolov rt; e<^>]. Mt^Sgv /catt'di', 

" The concept fiTjxavv or ingenious device employed by a 
superior intelligence to circumvent necessity or play provi- 



posure throughout, a good guardian of himself and 
the culture which he has received, maintaining the 
true rhythm and harmony of his being in all those 
conditions, and the character that would make him 
most useful to himself and to the state. And he 
who as boy, lad, and man endures the test and issues 
from it unspoiled we must establish as ruler over our 
city and its guardian, and bestow rewards upon him 
in hfe, and in death the allotment of the supreme 
honours of burial-rites and other memorials. But 
the man of the other t}-pe we must reject. Such," 
said I, " appears to me, Glaucon, the general notion 
of our selection and appointment of rulers and 
guardians as sketched in outline, but not dra>\-n out 
in detail." " I too," he said, " think much the 
same." " Then would it not truly be most proper 
to designate these as guardians in the full sense of 
the word, watchers against foemen \\ithout and 
friends >nthin, so that the latter shall not wish and the 
former shall not be able to work harm, but to name 
those youths whom we were calling guardians just 
now, helpers and aids for the decrees of the rulers ? " 
" I think so," he repHed. 

XXI. " How, then," said I, " might we contrive" 
one of those opportune falsehoods ^ of which we were 
just now '^ speaking, so as by one noble he to persuade 
if possible the rulers themselves, but faiHng that the 
rest of the city ? " " What kind of a fiction do you 
mean } " said he. " Nothing unprecedented," said 

dence with the vulgar holds a prominent place in Plato's 
physics, and is for Rousseau -minded readers one of the 
dangerous features of his political and educational philosophy. 
C/. infra 415 c, Laws 664 a, 752 c, 769 e, 798 b, 640 b. 
» C/. 389 B. « 389 B f, 



"qv 8' iyw, dXXa Q^oivlklkov ti, nporepov fiev TJSrj 
7ToXXa)(ov yeyovo?, (Ls cf>aaLV ol 7TOir]Tal /cat 
TTeTTCLKaaiv, icj)^ rnjichv 8e ov yeyovos oi58' oi8a et 
yevopievov av, TreZaaL 8e avxvijg TreiOovg. 'Q,s 
eoLKas, €(f)r], okvovvtl Xiyeiv. Ao^co Se aoi, -qv 8' 
iyo), Kal /xaA' et/coTCo? OKvelv, iireihav etTTo;. 

D Ae'y'j ^4'!' '^^' A'-''? (f'^^ov. Acyoj 817- Kairoi ovk 
olha OTTola rdA/xrj r^ ttoLols XoyoLs p^pcu/xevos' e/aco* 
/cat iTTLxetp'qcrco Trpcorov fiev avroiis rovs dpxovTas 
TTetdeiv /cat rovg arpariwras, erreira 8e /cat tt^;^ 
ciAAtji' TToAtP', COS" dp d 'qfielg avrovs €Tp€.<j>oix€v re 
/cat iTTaihevo/xcv, djairep oveipara iSoKovv ravra 
Trdvra Trdax^iv re /cat ytyveadat Trepl avrovs, 
■^aav Se rore rfj dXi^Oeia vtto yrfs ivrds 
TrXaTTOfievoi /cat Tpecfjofxevoi Kai avrol /cat ret 

E OTzAa avrwv /cat t^ ciAAtj aKevrj S-qpaovpyovp.ei'r] , 
eTTeiBr] Se TxapreAais- e^etpyaa/xeVot rjaav, d)s r) 
yfj avTOVS jjL-qriqp ovaa dvrJKe, /cat vuv 8et co? 

" As was the Cadmus legend of the men who sprang from 
the dragon's teeth, which the Greeks believed ovrwi aTrldavov 
dv. Laws 663 e. Pater, who translates the passage {Plato 
and Plafonism, p. 223), fancifully suggests that it is a 
" miners' story." Others read into it an allusion to 
Egyptian castes. The proverb xpevcfxa '^olviklkov (Strabo 
259 b) probably goes back to the Phoenician tales of the 

" Plato never attempts a Voltairian polemic against the 
general faith in the supernatural, which he is willing to 
utilize for ethical ends, but he never himself affirms " le 
surnaturel particulier." 

« Kai fjidX' here as often adds a touch of humorous col- 
loquial emphasis, which our conception of the dignity of 
Plato does not allow a translator to reproduce. 

<* Perhaps " that so it is that " would be better. ti)s apa as 



I, " but a sort of Phoenician tale," something that has 
happened ere now in many parts of the world, as the 
poets aver and have induced men to believe, but that 
has not happened and perhaps would not be likely to 
happen in our day * and demanding no little persuasion 
to make it believable." " You act like one who 
shrinks from telling his thought," he said. " You 
will think that I have right good reason '^ for shrinking 
when I have told," I said " Say on," said he, " and 
don't be afraid." " Very well, I will. And yet I 
hardly know how to find the audacity or the words 
to speak and undertake to persuade first the rulers 
themselves and the soldiers and then the rest of the 
city, that in good sooth ** all our training and educat- 
ing of them were things that they imagined and that 
happened to them as it were in a dream ; but that in 
reality at that time they were down within the earth 
being moulded and fostered themselves while their 
weapons and the rest of their equipment were being 
fashioned. And when they were quite finished the 
earth as being their mother * delivered them, and now 
as if their land were their mother and their nurse 

often disclaims responsibility for the tale. Plato's fancy of 
men reared beneath the earth is the basis of Bulwer-Lytton's 
Utopia, The Coming Race, as his use of the ring of Gyges 
(3o9 D-360 b) is of H. G. Wells' Invisible Man. 

' The symbolism expresses the Athenian boast of auto- 
chthony and Plato's patriotic application of it, Menex. 237 e- 
238 A. Cf. Burgess, " Epideictic Literature," University 
of Chigago Studies in Classical Philology, vol. iii. pp. 153- 
154; Tim. 24 c-D, Aeschyl. Septem 17. Lucretius ii. 641 f., 
and Swinburne, " Erechtheus " : 

All races but one are as aliens engrafted or sown. 
Strange children and changelings, but we, O our mother, 
thine own. 



rrepl fxrjTpos Kal rpo(f)ov ttj? x^P^^ ^^ fl ^'^"^ ^ov- 
XeveaOaL re Kal dfxvveLV avrovg, idv tis eV avrrjv 
trj, Kal v-rrep rcov dXXcov ttoXitcov oj? aSeA^ojt' 
ovtcjov Kal yrjyevojv SiavoeLadai. Ovk irog, €(f)rj, 
■ndXat fia')(vvov to ipevBos XeyeLv. Ildvv, ^v 8' 
415 €y(x}, etKOTcos' dAA' opccos aKove Kal to Xolttov tov 
fivdov. iare fxev yap Srj rravTCS ol iv rfj rroXei 
aSeA^oi, (hs <f>rj(ToiJ,€v irpog avTOVs fivOoXoyovvres, 
aAA' d Oeos TrXdrrajv, oaoi fxev vjxchv iKavol apx^iv, 
Xpvaov €V rfj yeveaet ^vvepn^ev avrols, Std rifiicoTa- 
Toi elatv oaoi 8' eTTLKovpoL, dpyvpov aihy]pov 8e 
/cat ^^oXkov rols t€ yecopyolg Kal roils aAAot? 
Sr]p,Lovpyolg. are ovv ^vyyevets ovreg vdures to 
fxev TToXv o/JiOLOvs dv vplv avrotg yevvcpre, eari 
B 8' ore CK ;^puCTOi; yevv-qdetrj dv dpyvpovv Kal e^ 
dpyvpov xpvaovv eKyovov /cat rdXXa Trdvra ovrcos 
€^ dAAi^Ao;!^. roXg ovv dp^ovai Kal Trpwrov Kal jxd- 
Xiara napayyeXXet o deos, ottcos fi-qSevos ovrat 
(f)vXaK€s dyaOol eaovrat, ^178' ovrco a(f>6Spa 
<f)vXd^ovcrL firjSev cu? rovs eKyovovs, 6 rt, avrolg 

" OVK fris is comic. Cf. 568 a, and Blaydes on Aristoph. 
Acharn. 411. 

* Cf. 468 E, 547 A, and "already" Cratyl. 394 d, 398 a. 
Hesiod's four metals. Works and Days 109-201, symbolize 
four successive oges. Plato's myth cannot of course be 
interpreted literally or made to express the whole of his 
apparently undemocratic theory, of which the biologist 
Huxlej' in his essay on Administrative Nihilism sa}'S: 
" The lapse of more than 2000 years has not weakened the 
force of these wise words." 



they ought to take thought for her and defend her 
against any attack and regard the other citizens as 
their brothers and children of the self-same earth." 
" It is not for nothing," " he said, " that you were so 
bashful about coming out with your he." "It was 
quite natural that I should be," I said ; " but all the 
same hear the rest of the story. While all of you in 
the city are brothers, we «ill say in our tale, yet God 
in fashioning those of you who are fitted to hold rule 
mingled gold in their generation,* for which reason 
they are the most precious — but in the helpers silver, 
and iron and brass in the farmers and other craftsmen. 
And as you are all akin, though for the most part you 
will breed after your kinds, "^ it may sometimes happen 
that a golden father would beget a silver son and that 
a golden offspring would come from a silver sire and 
that the rest would in hke manner be born of 
one another. So that the first and chief injunction 
that the god lays upon the rulers is that of nothing 
else ** are they to be such careful guardians and so 
intently observant as of the intermixture of these 

* The four classes are not castes, but are species which 
will generally breed true. Cf. Cratyl. 393 b, 39 1 a. 

** The phrasing of this injunction recalls Shakespeare's 
Merchant of Venice, in fine : 

I'll fear no other thing 
So sore as keeping safe Xerissa's ring. 
The securing of disinterested capacity in the rulers is the 
pons asinorum of political theory. Plato constructs his 
whole state for this end. Cf. Introd. p. xv. Aristotle, Pol. 
1262 b 27, raises the obvious objection that the transference 
from class to class will not be an easy matter. But Plato 
here and in 423 d-e is merely stating emphatically the 
postulates of an ideal state. He admits that even if estab- 
lished it will some time break down, and that the causes of 
its failure will lie beyond human ken, and can only be 
expressed in symbol. See on 5i6-547. 

VOL. I X 305 


TOVTOiv €v rais ifivxcus vapaixeixiKTat,, Kal idv re 
acfjerepog eK-yovos VTroxa^Kos rj VTroaiS-qpos yevrjrai, 

C /JirjSevl rpoTTCo KareXerjaovaiv , aAAo. rr^v rfj cjivaei 
TTpooTjKovaav Tipirjv aTToSovres a)aovai,v els hripnovp- 
yovs ^ els yecjpyovs, Kal av av e/c tovtcov tls 
VTToxpvaos 7] vrrdpyvpos (f>vj], TtpLT^aavres dvd^ovai 
Tovs piev els <f>vXaKiqv, rovs Se els eTTiKovpiav, ws 
XpT^crpiov ovros Tore t7]v ttoXlv SLa(f)6aprjvai, orav 
avTT]v o aihiqpos rj 6 ■)(aXK6s (f)vXd^rj. tovtov ovv 
Tov pLvdov oTTCvs dv TTeiadeXev, ex^ts nvd pir)xo.vrjv; 

D OvSapicos, e^^, OTTOJS y' dv avrol ovrof ottcos 
fievr' dv oi tovtcov vlels Kal ol eTreira 61 t' aAAoi 
avdpcoTTOi ol varepov. 'AAAo, /cat touto, -^v S' 
eyo), ev dv e^oi Trpds rd p,dXXov avrovs rrjs TToXecos 
re Kal d?^XrjXa)v KiqheaOai' axe^dv ydp tl piavdavco 
o Xeyets. XXII. /cat rovro p,ev hrj e^ei ottj] dv 
avTo Tj ^rjpi'r] dydyrj. 

Hyucts- 8e Tovrovs rovs yqyevels oTrXiaavres 
TTpodycxipiev 'qyovpcevcov tojv dpxdvTcov. eXOov- 
res 8e deaadaOcDV rrjs TToXecos ottov KdXXiarov 

E arparoTTehevaaaOai, ddev rovs re evSov pidXtar' 
av Kare^oiev, el ns p-rj eOeXot rdls vopiois Tret- 
deadai, rovs re e^codev dnapivvotev , el TToXepnos 
cjOTTep XvKos eirl rroLpivrjv ns tot, arparoTrehev- 

" The summary in Tim. 19 a varies somewhat from this. 
Plato does not stress the details. Cf. Introd. p. viii. 

*" Plato's oracle aptly copies the ambiguity of the bronze 
men's answer to Psammctik (Herod, ii. 152), and admits of 
both a moral and a literal physical interpretation, like the 
"lame reign " against which Sparta was warned. Cf. Xen. 
Hellenica iii. 3. 3. 

" Plato repeats the thought that since the mass of men 



metals in the souls of their oflPspring, and if sons are 
born to them ^\•ith an infusion of brass or iron they 
shall by no means give way to pity in their treatment 
of them, but shall assign to each the status due to 
his nature and thrust them out "■ among the artizans 
or the farmers. And again, if from these there is 
born a son with unexpected gold or silver in his com- 
position they shall honour such and bid them go up 
higher, some to the office of guardian, some to the 
assistanceship, alleging that tliere is an oracle * that 
the state shall then be overthrown when the man of 
iron or brass is its guardian. Do you see any way of 
getting them to believe this tale ? " " No, not these 
themselves," he said, " but I do, their sons and 
successors and the rest of mankind who come after. '^ " 
" Well," said I, " even that Mould have a good effect 
in making them more inclined to care for the state 
and one another. For I think I apprehend your 
meaning. XXII. And this shall fall out as tradition '^ 

" But let us arm these sons of earth and conduct 
them under the leadership of their rulers. And when 
they have arrived they must look out for the fairest 
site in the city for their encampment,* a position from 
which they could best hold down rebellion against 
the laws from within and repel aggression from with- 
out as of a wolf against the fold. And after they 

can be brought to believe anything by repetition, myths 
framed for edification are a useful instrument of education 
and government. Cf. Laws 663 e-664 a. 

■* 0T7/XV7, not any particular oracular utterance, but popular 
belief from mouth to mouth. 

• The Platonic guardians, like the ruling class at Sparta, 
"Will live the life of a camp. Cf. Laws 666 e, Isoc. 



adfxevoi 8e, Bvaavres ols XPV' ^^^^S TTotrjad- 
adcov ri TTOJs; Ovrcos, '^(f>l- Ovkovv roiavras, 
oias xeifxojvo's re areyeiv koL depovs LKavdg elvai; 
Ucos yap ov^i; OLKiqaeL? y^Ry ^4'V> ^OKclg fxoi 
Xeyeiv. Nat, rju 8' eyoj, OTpaTLOJTtKds ye, aAA' 
416 ov ;^/3i7/zaTto-Tt/cas'. Tlcos, e(j>T], av rovro Xeyeis 
oiacfiepetv €K€lvov; 'Eyco aoi, ■^v 8' iyco, Treipd- 
aojxai eiTTelv. Seivorarov yap ttov Trdvrcov /cat 
aLa)(LaTov Trotyuecrt tolovtovs ye /cat ovtoj rpecfyetv 
Kvvas CTTLKoupovg TTOLpiviwv , a)aT€ VTTO aKoXaaias 
7] XtpLOV Tj TLVos a'AAou KaKov edovs avrovs rovs 
Kvvas eTTixeLpijaai rot? irpo^droLs KaKovpyelv /cat 
av'Tt Kvviov XvKoig oixotcDdrjvat. Aeivov, rj 8' os" 
B TTws 8' ov; Ovkovv (/)vXaKT€ov Travrl rpoTTCp, fir] 
roLovrov rjplv ol eTTtKovpoi TTOLrjacoat npog rov^ 

TToXlTaS, €7T€LSrj aVTcbv KpCLTTOVS etCTtV, dvTt 

^Vfifjidxcov evfievcov SeaTToraig dyplois d(f>ofjioico- 
dcoaiv; OyAa/CTe'ov, €^17. Ovkovv ttjv fxeyiaTTjv 
Trjs euAa^eta? Tra^peaKevaajxevoL av elev, et rep 
ovTi KaXcog 7Te7rat8eu/x€Vot elaiv; 'AAAa fx'r]v etat 
y', e<f)rj. /cat eyojy^^ eiTTOv, Tovto fiev ovk d^iov 
huG-)(vpill^ea9aL, w 0iAe VXavKcov o fievTOL dpri 
C iXeyojxev, d^cov, on Set avrov? rrjs opOrjs rvx^lv 
7rat8eta?, tJtls 7tot€ eariv, et jLte'AAouat to //.e'yt- 
OTOv e^etv TTpog ro rjfxepoL etvat avTolg re /cat rot? 
^ Burnet and Adam read iydi. 

" Partly from caution, partly from genuine religious 
feeling, Plato leaves all details of the cult to Delphi. 
Cf. 427 B. " For the limiting ye cf. 430 c. 

" Aristotle's objection {Pol. 1264 a 24) that the Platonic 
state will break up into two hostile camps, is plagiarized in 
expression from Plato's similar censure of existing Greek 
cities (422 e) and assumes that the enforced disinterestedness, 


have encamped and sacrificed to the proper gods" 
they must make their lairs, must they not ? " 
" Yes," he said. " And these must be of a character 
to keep out the cold in ■winter and be sufficient in 
summer ? " " Of course. For I presume you are 
speaking of their houses." " Yes," said I, " the 
houses of soldiers'* not of money-makers." " What 
distinction do you intend by that ? " he said. " I 
Mill try to tell you," I said. " It is surely the 
most monstrous and shameful thing in the world for 
shepherds to breed the dogs who are to help them 
with their flocks in such wise and of such a nature 
that from indisciphne or hunger or some other e\il 
condition the dogs themselves shall attack the sheep 
and injure them and be likened to wolves "^ instead 
of dogs." " A terrible thing, indeed," he said. 
Must we not then guard by every means in our 
power against our helpers treating the citizens in 
any such way and, because they are the stronger, 
converting themselves from benign assistants into 
savage masters ? " " We must," he said. " And 
would they not have been pro\ided with the chief 
safeguard if their education has really been a good 
one ? " " But it surely has," he said. " That," said 
I, " dear Glaucon, we may not properly affirm,** but 
what we were just now saying we may, that they 
must have the right education, whatever it is, if they 
are to have what will do most to make them gentle 

the higher education, and other precautions of the Platonic 
Republic will not suffice to conjure away the danger to 
which Plato first calls attention. 

** This is not so much a reservation in reference to the 
higher education as a characteristic refusal of Plato to 
dogmatize. Cf. Meno 86 B and my paper " Recent Platonism 
in England," A J, P. vol. ix. pp. 7-8. 



<f>v\aTTOix4voLS vrr* avrayv. Kai 6p6a>s ye, rj 8' 
OS". ITpos' roivvv rfj TxaiSeia Tavrrj <f)alr] av ns 
vovv €Xit)v Seiv Kal ras" oiKT^aeis Kal ttjv dXXiqv 
ovatav TOiavTTjv avrolg TrapacrKevdaaadai, 17x15' 
fir^re rovs (f)vXaKas cog apiarovs elvai Travuot 
avTOVs, KaKovpyeZv re [mt] inapol Ttepl rovs aAAou? 
D TToXtras. Kat dXrjdoj? ye ^i^cret. "Opa §7^, eiTTOV 
eyo), €1 TotdvSe rivd rponov Sei avTovs Cjj^ '^^ '^^^ 
OLKelv, €1 fieXXovai roiovrot eaeadai' irpcoTOV fiev 
ovatav KeKrrjpLevov pirjhep.iav fxrjheva IStav, av jjlt] 
irdaa dvdyKrj- eTreira OLKrjaiv Kal rafxielov fxrjhevl 
€Lvai jjiT^Sev TOLOUTOV, els o ov TTas 6 ^ovXoixevos 
eluetaf rd 8' evrtTT^Seta, oacov Beovrai dv8peg 
ddXr]Tal TToXefiov adxfypoves re koI dvSpeZot,, 
E ra^afievovs napd rojv dXXojv ttoXltcov he^eadai 
fxiadov TTJs cfivXaKrjs roaovrov, oaov puryre Trepielvai 
avTolg els rdv eviavrov p.T]Te evSelv (f>oira)vras 8e 
els ^vaoLTia coarrep eaTparo-nehevp^evovs kolvtj 
l,fjv )(pvaLOV 8e Kal dpyvpiov elirelv avrots on 
deZov Trapd decov del ev rfj i/jv^fj exovoL Kal ovoev 
TTpoaSeovrat rod dvOpajTrelou, oi)Se ocrta rrjv e/cet- 
vov Krrjaiv rfj rod dvqrov xpvaoC Krrjaei gvp.- 
payvvvras pnaiveLV, Siori TToXXd Kal avoaia Trepi ro 
417 rdjv TToXXdJv vopiLapia yeyovev, ro irap eKelvois oe 
dKTjparov dAAd p.6voLS avrols rdJv ev rf rroXei 

" Plato's communism is primarily a device to secure dis- 
interestedness in the ruling class, though he sometimes treats 
it as a counsel of perfection for all men and states. C/. 
Introd. p. XV note a. 

* C/. supra 403 e. 

" Cf. 551 B, Meno 91 b, Thucyd. i. 108, O.M.T. 837. 

<* They are worthy of their hire. Cf. on 347 a. It is a 
strange misapprehension to speak of Plato as careless of 



to one another and to their charges." " That is 
right," he said. " In addition, moreover, to such an 
education a thoughtful man would affirm that their 
houses and the possessions proWded for them ought 
to be such as not to interfere with the best per- 
formance of their own work as guardians and not 
to incite them to WTong the other citizens." " He 
will rightly affirm that." "Consider then," said I, 
" whether, if that is to be their character, their 
habitations and ways of hfe must not be something 
after this fashion. In the first place, none must 
possess any private property " save the indispensable. 
Secondly, none must have any habitation or treasure- 
house which is not open for all to enter at will. 
Their food, in such quantities as are needful for 
athletes of war '' sober and brave, they must receive 
as an agreed "^ stipend ** from the other citizens as the 
wages of their guardianship, so measured that there 
shall be neither superfluity at the end of the year 
nor any lack.* And resorting to a common mess ' like 
soldiers on campaign they will Uve together. Gold 
and silver, we will tell them, they have of the di\ine 
quality from the gods always in their souls, and they 
have no need of the metal of men nor does holiness 
suffer them to mingle and contaminate that heavenly 
possession with the acquisition of mortal gold, since 
many impious deeds have been done about the coin 
of the multitude, while that which dwells ^^-ithin them 
is unsulhed. But for these only of all the dwellers in 

the welfare of the masses. His aristocracy is one of social 
service, not of selfish enjoyment of wealth and power. 

• This is precisely .\ristophanes' distinction betweti 
beggary and honourable poverty, Pluius 553-553. 

' As at Sparta. Cf. 458 c, Newman, Introduction to 
Aristotle's Politics, p. 334. 



/Lierap^eipi^eCT^ai Kal aTrreadai ;^puCTOi} /cat dpyv- 
pov ov dejXis, oyS' vno rov avrov 6po(f)ov livai 
ovhk TTepidijjaadai ovhe Triveiv l^ dpyvpov rj 
Xpvaov. Kal ovrco pikv acol^oivro t dv Kal acv^oiev 
Tqv ttoXlv OTTore 8' avrol yrjv re IScav Kal OLKtag 
Kal vojJLLGjJLara KTijcrovrat, OLKOVOfiot, fiev Kal 
yecopyoL dvrl (f>vXdKOjv eaovrai, Searrorai 8 
B ix^pol dvrl ^vfxfidxojv twv dXXwu ttoXitcov yeirfj- 
aovrai, fitaovvres Se Sr] Kal fucrovfievoL /cat ctti- 
^ovXevovres Kal ivL^ovXevofievot Sid^ovcn ndvTa 
Tov ^lov, TToXv TrAetct) Kal fidXAov 8e8toTe? tovs 
evSov rj rovs e^cxjdev TroXep-iovs, Oeovreg rjSr] rore 
iyyvrara oXedpov avroi re Kal rj dXXrj ttoXls. 
rovroiv ovv Trdvrcov eVe/ca, rjv 8' iyco, (fxjofxev ovro) 
belv KareaKevdrrdat rovs cfiuXaKag OLK-qaeios re 
TTepL Kal rdjv dXXuiv, Kal raura voixoderrjaiojiev , rj 
pufj; Yidvv ye, t) 8' o? o VXavKcov. 

" As if the accursed and tainted metal were a polluted 
murderer or temple-robber. Cf. my note on Horace, Odes 
iii. 2. 27 " sub isdem trabibus," Antiphon v. 11. 

* Cf. 621 B-c, and Laws 692 a. 

" decTwoTai. Cf. Menex. 238 e. 

■* Cf. Laws 697 d in a passage of similar import, nia-ovvres 



the city it is not lawful to handle gold and silver and 
to touch them nor yet to come under the same roof" 
with them, nor to hang them as ornaments on their 
hmbs nor to drink from silver and gold. So li\ing 
they would save themselves and save their city.* But 
whenever they shall acquire for themselves land of 
their o>vn and houses and coin, they viiW be house- 
holders and farmers instead of guardians, and will be 
transformed from the helpers of their fellow-citizens 
to their enemies and masters,"^ and so in hating and 
being hated,** plotting and being plotted against they 
will pass their days fearing far more and rather * the 
townsmen within than the foemen without — and 
then even then laying the course ' of near shipwTeck 
for themselves and the state. For all these reasons," 
said I, " let us declare that such must be the pro- 
vision for our guardians in lodging and other respects 
and so legislate. Shall we not ? " " By all means," 
said Glaucon. 

' more and rather: so 396 d, 551 b. 

' The image is that of a ship nearing the fatal reef. C/. 
Aeschyl. Eumen. 56-2. The sentiment and the heightened 
rhetorical tone of the whole passage recall the last page of 
the Critias, with Ruskin's translation and comment in 
A Crown of Wild Olice. 


419 I. Kai o *AS€Lfxavros vrroXa^cov , Tt ovv, €(f)rj, cu 
HcoKpareg, dTToXoyijaet , idv tls ere <f)fi nrj Trdvv ri 
evhatfxovas TTOielv tovtovs tov? dvSpas, Kal ravra 
Sl' iavTOVS, <I)v eart fiev r] ttoXls ttj aXiqOeia, ol 
Se fxrjSev dTToXavovai.v dyadov rrjs TroAecu?, olov 

dXXoL dypOVS re K€KT7]fl€VOi Kal OLKtaS OLKoSofJiOV- 

fxevot, KaXds Kal fieydXas, Kal ravrais TrpeTTOuaav 
KaraaK€V7]V KTCofxevoL, /cat dvatas OeoZs Ihias 
6vovT€s Kal ^evoSoKovvres , /cat 8rj Kai a vvv Srj cJi) 
e'Aeye?, )(pva6v re Kai dpyvpov KeKr'qpievoL Kal 
irdvra oaa voiiit,eraL rolg fieXXovat jjiaKapiotg 
elvat; dXX' dre)(va)s, <j>airi dv, oiotrep ertlKovpoi 

420 pnaQoirol ev rfj TrdAet ^aivovrai Kadrjadai ovSev 
dXXo 7] (f)povpovvres. Nat, t^v 8' eyio, Kal ravrd 

" Adeimantus's criticism is made from the point of view of 
a Thrasymachus (343 a, 3t5 b) or a Callicles {Oorgias 492 
B-c) or of Solon's critics {cf. my note on Solon's Trochaics 
to Phokos, Class. Phil. vol. vi. pp. 216 ff.). The captious 
objection is repeated by Aristotle, Pol. 1264 b 15 ff., though 
he later (1325 a 9-10) himself uses Plato's answer to it, and 
by moderns, as Herbert Spencer, Grote, Newman to some 
extent (Introduction to Aristotle's Politics, p. 69), and Zeller 
(Aristotle, ii. p. 224) who has the audacity to say that 
" Plato demanded the abolition of all private possession and 
the suppression of all individual interests because it is only 



I. And Adeimantus broke in and said, " What ^^^ll be 
your defence, Socrates, if anyone objects that you 
are not making these men very happy ,** and tliat 
through their own fault ? For the city really belongs 
to them and yet they get no enjoyment out of it as 
ordinary' men do by owning lands and building fine 
big houses and providing them with suitable furni- 
ture and winning the favour of the gods by private 
sacrifices ** and entertaining guests and enjo\nng too 
those possessions which you just now spoke of, gold 
and silver and all that is customary for those who 
are expecting to be happy ? But they seem, one 
might say, to be estabhshed in idleness in the city, 
exactly like hired mercenaries, with nothing to do 
but keep guard." " Yes," said I, " and what is 

in the Idea or Universal that he acknowledges any title to 
true reality." Leslie Stephen does not diverge so far 
from Plato when he says {Science of Ethics, p. 397): 
"The virtuous men may be the very salt of the earth, and 
yet the discharge of a function socially necessarj- may 
involve their own misery." By the happiness of the whole 
Plato obviously means not an abstraction but the concrete 
whole of which Leslie Stephen is thinking. But from a 
higher point of view Plato eloquently argues (465 b-c) that 
duty fulfilled will yield truer happiness to the guardians 
than seeking their own advantage in the lower sense of 
the word. 
* Cj. 362 c, and Laws 909 d fF. where they are forbidden. 



ye eTTtairLOL Kal oi3Se fjLt,a96v Trpog rot? airiois 
Xafx^dvovres (Zairep ol d'AAot, cucttc ovh av airo- 
SrjixrjaaL ^ouXcovTai tSia, e^earai avrois, ovh 
eraipais hihovai ovh^ avaXioKeiv av ttol ^ovXaivrai 
aXXoae, ola Brj ol evSaifxoves hoKovvreg elvai 
dvaXlcTKOvai. ravra Kal d'AAa rotavra av)(va rrjs 
Karr^yopias aTToXeiiTeis . 'AAA', i) 8' 6s, karoi Kai 

B ravra Karrjyopr^neva. Tt ovv hrj dTToXoyiqoopLeda, 
(f>jjs; Nai. Tov avrov olp.ov, rjv 8' iyco, iropevo- 
ixevoi evpr^aojxev, chs eySjJiai, d Ae/crea. epovfxev 
yap, on davfxaarov fxev av ovSev etr), el Kau ovroL 
ovrois €v8at jxoveararoL etaiv, ov jxrjv rrpos rovro 
^XcTTOvres rrjv ttoXlv olKit,op.ev, ottcos €V n ry/xiv 
edvos earac hLa<^€p6vraJS evhaifxov, dXX ottws 6 n 
fidXtara oXrj rj ttoXis- wt^drjiJiev yap iv rfj roi- 
avrrj fidXiara av evpelv Si,Kai.oavvr]v Kal aS ev rfj 

C KaKiara OLKOvixevrj dStKiav, KartSovres 8e Kplvai 
av, o TToXai l^rjrovfxev. vvv jxev ovv, to? OLOfieda, 
rrjv evSalfiova TrXdrrofiev ovk dnoXa^ovres oXi- 
yovs iv avrfi roLovrovs rivds ndivres, dXX oXr^v 
avriKa 8e r7]v evavriav aKeifjofxeda. cuaTrep ovv 
av, el rjpLas dvSptdvra ypd(j)ovras irpoaeXdcov ris 
eijjeye Xeycov, on ov roXs KaXXlaroLS tov ^coov ra 

" Other men, ordinary men. Cf. 543 b wv vvv ol 
&\\oi, which disposes of other interpretations and mis- 

* This is, for a diiferent reason, one of the deprivations of 
the tyrant (579 b). The Latcs strictly limits travel (949 e). 
Here Plato is speaking from the point of view of the 
ordinary citizen. 

" The Platonic Socrates always states the adverse case 
strongly (Introd. p. xi), and observes the rule : 

\^'ould you adopt a strong logical attitude. 
Always allow your opponent full latitude. 



more, they serve for board-wages and do not even 
receive pay in addition to their food as others do,*' so 
that they will not even be able to take a journey *• on 
their own account, if they wish to, or make presents 
to their mistresses, or spend money in other directions 
according to their desires hke the men who are 
thought to be happy. These and many similar 
counts of the indictment you are omitting." " Well, 
said he, " assume these counts too.*^ " " What then 
will be our apologj' you ask ? " " Yes." " By follow- 
ing the same path I think we shall find what to reply. 
For we shall say that while it would not surprise us 
if these men thus living prove to be the most happy, 
yet the object on which we fixed our eyes in the 
establishment of our state was not the exceptional 
happiness of any one class but the greatest possible 
happiness of the city as a whole. For we thought** 
that in a state so constituted we should be most 
likely to discover justice as we should injustice in 
the worst governed state, and that when we had 
made these out we could pass judgement on the issue 
of our long inquiry. Our first task then, we take 
it, is to mould the model of a happy state — we are 
not isolating « a small class in it and postulating their 
happiness, but that of the city as a whole. But the 
opposite tj-pe of state we will consider presently.^ It 
is as if we were colouring a statue and someone ap- 
proached and censured us, saying that we did not 

" CJ. 369 A. 

' ciTToAa/SdiTe?, " separating off," " abstracting," may be 
used absolutely as in Gorgias 495 e, or with an object as 
fupra 392 e. 

' That is 449 a and books VIII. and IX. The degenerate 
types of state are four, but the extreme opposite of the good 
state, the tyranny, is one. 



/caAAtcTTa (f>dpfiaKa TrpoarWefiev ol yap 6(f>9aXfxoL 
KaXXcarov ov ovk oarpeicp eVaAryAt/x/xeVoi etev aAAa 
D fxeXavL' /jLerpicjs oiv eSoKovfiev irpos avrov oltto- 
XoyeZadai Xeyovres, a> davfidaie, [xrj otov Seiv i^/xa? 
ovTco KoXovs 6<f>6a\piovs ypd(f)eiv, (Zare p,rjSe 
o<f}6aXiJiovs <f)aiveodai, p-y]^* av raAAa P'^prj, dXX 
ddpei el rd TrpoaiqKovTa CKdaroLS aTroStSovre? to 
oXov KaXov TTOiovpev Kal Srj /cat vvv p,'rj dvdyKa^e 
7]fids TOLavTrjv €v8aLp,oviav toZs (f)vXa^L rrpoa- 
dnreiv, rj eKcivovs Trdv p.dXXov dTTepydaerai 7] 
E (f>vXaKas. €TTLardpbeda yap Kal rovs yempyovs 
^vcrrihas dp^ilaavTes Kal -)(^pva6v irepLdevres irpos 
TjSovrjv epydl,e(jdaL KeXeveiv ttjv yrjv, Kal rov<; 
K€pap,€ag KaraKXlvavres eTnSe^ia Trpog to Trvp 8ta- 
mvovTds re Kal evoj)(ovp.evovs , rov rpo^ov vrapa- 
dejxevovs, oaov dv imdvpcocn Kepapevetv, /cat rovs 
dXXovs Trdvras tolovtoj rpoiTcp piaKapiovs TTOielv, 
Lva St] oXt] rj ttoXls ^vhaipovff dXX rjpds p-f] ovTOi 
421 vovderef cos, dp aot Treidcopieda, ovre 6 yecopyos 
yecopyds earai ovre 6 Kepapbevs Kepap,evg ovre 
a'AAo? ouSei? ovSeu e^coi/ a'xfjpa, e^ Sv ttoXis 
yiyverai. aAAa rcJov p,ev dXXa}v eXdrrcov Xoyos' 
veupoppd<poL yap (f)avXoi. yevopevoi Kal hia(f>dap€VTes 

" So Hippias Major 290 b. 

* For this principle of aesthetics cf. Pha^drus 264 c, 
Aristot. Poetics 1450 b 1-2. 

" " We know how to." For the satire of the Socialistic 
millennium which follows cf. Introd. p. xxlx, and Ruskin, 
Fors Clavigera. Plato may have been thinking of the scene 
on the shield of Achilles, //. xviii. 541-560. 

"* i.e. so that the guest on the right hand occupied a lower 
place and the wine circulated in the same direction. Many 
write (TTL df^id, but A einde^ia. " Forever, 'tis a single word. 
Our rude forefathers thought it two." 




apply the most beautiful pigments to the most beauti- 
ful parts of the image, since the eyes," -which are the 
most beautiful part, have not been painted Avith purple 
l)ut M-iih black — we should think it a reasonable justi- 
fication to reply, ' Don't expect us, quaint friend, to 
paint the eyes so fine that they will not be like eyes 
at all, nor the other parts, but observe whether by 
assigning what is proper to each we render the whole 
beautiful.^ ' And so in the present case you must not 
require us to attach to the guardians a happiness 
that will make them anything but guardians. For 
in like manner we could "^ clothe the farmers in robes 
of state and deck them with gold and bid them 
cultivate the soil at their pleasure, and we could 
make the potters recline on couches from left to 
right <* before the fire drinking toasts and feasting with 
their wheel alongside to potter with when they are 
so disposed, and we can make all the others happy 
in the same fashion, so that thus the entire city may 
be happy. But urge us not to this, since, if we yield, 
the farmer will not be a farmer nor the potter a 
potter, nor will any other of the types that constitute 
a state keep its form. However, for the others it 
matters less. For cobblers * who deteriorate and are 

• Note the " ab urbe condita " construction. For the 
thought cf. 374 b. Zeller and many who follow him are not 
justified in inferring that Plato would not educate the masses. 
(Cf. Newman, Introduction to Aristotle's Politics, i. p. 160.) 
It might as well be argued that the high schools of the 
United States are not intended for the masses because some 
people sometimes emphasize their function of " fitting for 
college." In the Republic Plato describes secondary educa- 
tion as a preparation for the higher training. The secondary 
education of the entire citizenry in the Laws marks no 
change of opinion {Laws 818 ff.). Cf. Introd. p. xxxiii. 



Kol Trpoa7TOLr)adiX€voL eluaL fjurj ovreg TrdAet ovoeu 
Seij^di'" (f)vXaKes 8e voficov re /cat TrdAeoj? [xr] ovreg 
dXXa SoKovureg opag Sr) on irdaav dphrjv ttoXiv 
OLTToXXvaaiv , /cai av rov ev olkclv /cat evSaifioveh' 
fjLOVot Tov Katpov exovoLV. €1 jiev ovv rjfieLS ftep- 

B <f)vXaKas cus dXr]da)s rroiovfjiev, -qKiara KaKovp- 
yovs TTJs TToXecDS, 6 8' CKetvo Xeyojv yecopyovs 
TLvas Kal cuCTTTep iv Travrjyvpei dAA' ovk iv TToXei 
icmdropas evSaifiovag , dXXo dv tl r) ttoXlv Xeyot. 
aKCTTreov ovv, Tzorepov Trpos tovto ^XeirovTcg rovg 
(f)vXaKag KadLardJfiev, ottcos 6 rt, TrXeLarrj av- 
Tols evSaLfxovia iyyevqaeraL, ^ tovto fjiev et? ttjv 
TToXiv oXr]v pXeTTOVTa? OeaTeov el eKeivr) iyyiyve- 
Tai, Tovs S' cTTiKovpovs TOVTOvg /cat Tovg ^yAa/cas 

C €KeZvo dvayKaoTeov Troielu /cat TTeiareov, ottcos o 
Tl dpiGTOL h'qp.LovpyoL tov eavTibv epyov eaovTai, 
/cat TOWS' ctAAou? aTTavTag coaavrcog, /cat ovtoj 
^vpLTrdarjs Trjs TToXeoJS av^avofxevqs xal KaXdJg 
olKit.opivqs iaTeov ottcos e/cacrrots' rot? edvecLV rj 
<f>vaLg (XTroStSaxTt tov ficTaXap-^dveiv evSaipiovLas. 

II. 'AAA', 7^ S' OS, KaXdJs fiOL So/cet? Xeyetv. 
*A/3' ovv, rjv S' iyu), /cat to tovtov dS€X(f)6v 86^oj 
crot /xerpiaj? Xeyeiv; Tt /aaAtara; Tou? aAAou? 

D av St] fXLovpyovs aKonei el raSe Sta(f)9eLpeL, coGTe 
/cat KaKovs yiyveadai. Ta Troia 817 raura; IIAoiJ- 
Tos, rjv 8' eyd), /cat Trevia. Y{(x)s 817; *Q.he- ttXov- 

" The expression is loose, but the meaning is plain. The 
principle " one man, one task " makes the guardians real 
guardians. The assumption that their happiness is the end 
is incompatible with the very idea of a state. Cf. Introd. 
pp. xxix f. fffTidropas recalls fieWovra ecrTidaecrdai 345 C, but 
we are expected to think also of the farmers of 420 e. 

'' The guardians are dri/xiovpyol eXevdepia^ (395 c). 


spoiled and pretend to be the workmen that they are 
not are no great danger to a state. But guardians 
of laws and of the city who are not what they pre- 
tend to be, but only seem, destroy utterly, I would 
have you note, the entire state, and on the other 
liand, they alone are decisive of its good government 
and happiness . If then we are forming true guardians 
and keepers of our liberties, men least hkely to harm 
the commonwealth, but the proponent of the other 
ideal is thinking of farmers and ' happy ' feasters 
as it were in a festival and not in a ch-ic community, 
he would have something else in mind " than a state. 
Consider, then, whether our aim in estabhshing the 
guardians is the greatest possible happiness among 
them or whether that is something we must look to 
see develop in the city as a whole, but these helpers 
and guardians are to be constrained and persuaded 
to do what will make them the best craftsmen in 
their own work, and similarly all the rest. And so, 
as the entire city develops and is ordered well, each 
class is to be left to the share of happiness that its 
nature comports." 

II. " Well," he said, " I think you are right." 
" And will you then," I said, " also think me reason- 
able in another point akin to this .'' " " What pray ? " 
" Consider whether these are th6 causes that corrupt 
other * craftsmen too so as positively to spoil them."^ " 
" What caxises ? " " Wealth and poverty," ** said I. 

* Siare vai Kaicoi'S, I think, means " so that they become actually 
bad," not " so that they also become bad." Cf. Lysis 217 b. 

'' For the dangers of wealth <•/. 550, 553 d, 555 b, 556 a, 
562, Laics 831 c, 919 b, and for the praises of poverty r/. 
Aristoph. Plutu^ 510-591, Lucian, Xiprinus 12, Eurip. fr, 
55 N., Stobaeus. Flor. 94 (.Meineke iu. 198), Class. Phil. 
vol. xxii. pp. 235-236. 

VOL. I Y 321 


Tiycra? x^'^P^^S So/cet ctoi en deX-rjaeiv eTnixeXeXaOat 
rrjs rexv-qs; OvSa/Jicbs, e^Tj. 'Apyos Se /cat 
d/jLeXrjs yeirqaerai ixdXXov avros avrov; YloXv ye. 
OvKovv KaKLCov ;)(i'T/)eus' yiyverai; Kat tovto, 
€<f>rj, TToXv. Kat fjLrjv /cat opyavd ye fMrj ex<JOV 
TTapexeadai vtto 'iTevias yj n dXXo tmv els rrjv 
E rexvrjv, TO. re epya TTOvqporepa epydaeraL /cat 
rovs vlels rj dXXovs ovs dv StSaa/cr^ x^^povg 
brjixLovpyovg StSa^erat. Udjs 8' ov; 'IV dp.^o- 
repiov Siy, TTevias re /cat ttAoutou, X^^P^ P-^^ '''^ 
Tcov rexvdjv epya, p^etpou? Be avroi. OatVerat. 
"Erepa 817, cuj eot/ce, rots' (f)vXa^Lv evpi^Kajxev, d 
TTavri rpoTTcp <j>vXaKreov ottcos fi'^rrore avrovs 
X-qaei els rrjv ttoXlv TrapaSvvra. Ylola ravra; 
422 YlXoijros re, ■^v 8' eycv, /cat Trevia, u)S rov (jlcv 
rpv^r]v /cat dpyiav /cat vecorepLap^ov TTOLovvros , rov 
he dveXevdepiav /cat KaKoepylav irpos ra> vecore- 
piap,a). Udvv p.ev ovv, e(f)rj. roSe fxevroi, (L 
HcoKpares, GKovei, ttcos r}p,Lv rj ttoXls ota r earai 
7ToXep.elv, eneiSdv xP'^P^o.ra per] KeKrrjpLevrj fj, dXXa>s 
re Kav irpos p,eydXrjv re /cat irXovaiav dvayKaadfj 
TToXepielv. ArjXov, rjv 8' eyo), on irpos pev piiav 
]3 XO-Xemorepov, rrpos 8e 8vo rotavras paov. Yld)s 
elrres ; rj 8' 6s. Ylpcjrov p.ev ttov, elrrov, edv Ser) 
pidxeodaL, dpa ov irXovaiois dvSpdai paxovvrai 
avrol ovres 7ToXep,ov ddXrjrai; Nat rovro ye, e(j>r]. 

" Apparent paradox to stimulate attention. Cf. 377 a, 
334 A, 382 A, 414 b-c, 544 c, Laws 646 b. To fight against 
two was quasi-proverbial. Cf. Laws 919 b. For images 
from boxing cf. Aristot. Met. 985 a 14, and Demosthenes' 
statement (P/u/i/). i. 40-41) that the Athenians fight Philip 
as the barbarians box. The Greeks felt that " lesser breeds 


" How so ? " " Thus ! do you think a potter who 
grew rich would any longer be \villing to give his 
mind to his craft ? " " By no means," said he. 
" But will he become more idle and negligent than 
he was ? " " Far more." " Then he becomes a 
worse potter ? " " Far worse too." " And vet again, 
if from poverty he is unable to provide himself with 
tools and other requirements of his art, the work 
that he turns out will be worse, and he will also make 
inferior workmen of his sons or any others whom he 
teaches." " Of course." " From both causes, then, 
poverty and wealth, the products of the arts deteri- 
orate, and so do the artisans .'' " " So it appears." 
" Here, then, is a second group of things, it seems, that 
our guardians must guard against and do all in their 
power to keep from slipping into the city without 
their knowledge." " What are they ? " " Wealth 
and poverty," said I. " since the one brings luxurv^, 
idleness and innovation, and the other illiberahty 
and the evil of bad workmanship in addition to in- 
novation." " Assuredly," he said ; " yet here is a 
point for your consideration, Socrates, how our city, 
possessing no wealth, will be able to wage war, 
especially if compelled to fight a large and wealthy 
state." " Ob\iously," said I, " it would be rather 
difficult to fight one such, but easier to fight two." " 
" What did you mean by that ? " he said. " Tell 
me first," I said, " whether, if they have to fight, 
they will not be fighting as athletes of war ^ against 
men of wealth ? " " Yes, that is true," he said. 

without the law " were inferior in this manly art of self- de- 
rnce. Cf. the amusing description of the boxing of Orestes 
and Py lades by the dT^eXos in Eurip. I.T. 1366 ff. 
» Cf. 416 E, 403 E. 



Tt ovv, Tjv S' iyo), d> ^ASelfiavTe; elg mjKTTjg co? 
otov r€ KaXXtara iirl tovto TrapeoKevaafxevos 
Svolv fir] TTVKraiv, ttXovololv he /cat ttlovolv, ovk 
dv So/cet (TOL paSlcos ixdxeadai; Ovk dv taws, 
€<p'r], a/xa ye. Uvo et e^eirj, rjv o eya>, vtto- 

^ (f)evyovri rov Trporepov del iTpoac^epojxevov dva- 
arpe^ovra Kpoveiv, Kat tovto ttoioI TToXXaKis iv rjXlq) 
T€ /cat TTviyei; dpd ye ov /cat irXeiovs x^'^P^oratr' 
dv TotovTovs 6 ToiovTos; ^AjJLeXeL, e(f>rj, ovhev 
dv yevoLTO davpLacTov. 'AAA' ovk otei TTVKTiKrjs 
■nXeov p,€T€X€tv Tovs TrXovaiovs CTnaTTJpLrj re /cat 
ipLTTecpia fj TToXepiKrjs; "Kycoy* , ^^V' 'PaStw? 
apa Tjpuv ol dOXrjTal e/c Tcav elKOTOiv hiTrXaaiois 
T€ /cat TptTrXaatotg avTCJV piaxovvTai. Hvyxo^pTJcro- 

D /Ltat crot, ecjyrj' So/cet? ydp /xot opdaJs Xeyeiv. Tt 
8', dv TTpea^eiav rrepiipavTes eis ttjv CTepav ttoXlv 
TdXT]d7J eiTTCoaiv, OTt rjpiels p,ev ovSev ;^puaia) ouS' 
dpyvpLcp ;)^pc(j)U,e^a, ouS' rjp,LV depts, vpuv Se* 
^vpiTToXepLt^aavTes ovv pied rjpojv ep^ere to. tcov 
eTepcov otet Tivds aKovoavTas TavTa alp'qaeadai 
Kval TToXepcelv OTepeoZs re /cat laxvolg pcdXXov ^ 
jLtera /cyvcDr rrpo^aTois Trioai re /cat aTraAotj; Ov 
pLOL So/cet. aAA' e'ap' et? p,iav, e(f)rj, ttoXlv ^vv- 

E adpoiadfj TO. Tcbv dXXojv ;^/37^/>tara, opa pirj klvSvvov 
4>^prj TTJ pLTj rrXovTOvar). EvSaipicov et, '^v S' iyco, 
OTL otet d^LOv etvai dXXrjv Tivd TTpoaenrelv rroXiv ^ 
Tr]v TOiavTTjv olav 'qp-ets KaT€aK€vd[,op,ev . 'AAAct 
Tt pii^v; e^f*!^. Metl^ovcos, rjv S' e'ycu, XPV "^poa- 

' Cf. Herod, iv. 111. 

* Two elements of the triad ^i/(ris, /xeXirr], iirLCTT-quTt). Cf. 
supra 374 d. 


" Answer me then, Adeimantus. Do you not think 
that one boxer perfectly trained in the art could 
easily fight two fat rich men who knew nothing of 
it ? " " Not at the same time perhaps," said he. 
" Not even," said I, " if he were allowed to retreat" 
and then turn and strike the one who came up first, 
and if he repeated the procedure many times under 
a burning and stifling sun ? Would not such a fighter 
down even a number of such opponents ? " " Doubt- 
less," he said ; "it wouldn't be surprising if he did." 
" Well, don't you think that the rich have more of the 
skill and practice * of boxing than of the art of war ? " 
" I do," he said. " It will be easy, then, for our 
athletes in all probability to fight with double and 
triple their number." " I shall have to concede 
the point," he said, " for I believe you are right." 
" Well then, if they send an embassy to the other 
city and say what is in fact true " : ' We make no use 
of gold and silver nor is it lawful for us but it is for 
you ; do you then join us in the war and keep the 
spoils of the enemy,' ^ — do you suppose any who heard 
such a proposal would choose to fight against hard 
and wiry hounds rather than with the aid of the 
hounds against fat and tender sheep ? " "I think 
not. Yet consider whether the accumulation of 
all the wealth of other cities in one does not involve 
danger for the state that has no wealth." " What 
happy innocence," said I, " to suppose that you can 
properly use the name city of any other than the 
one we are constructing." " Why, what should we 
say ? " he said. " A greater predication," said I, 

' Cf. Herod, vii. 233 rbv a\r]deffTaTov rwv \6rywv, Catull. x. 
9 "id quod erat." 

** The style is of intentional Spartan curtness. 



ayopeveiv rag aXXas' eKaaTTj yap avrcJov TToXets 
eiCTt TTafiTToXXat,, dAA' ov TToXtg, to tcov Trait^ovTCOv . 
ovo fiev, Kov oTLovv fj, TToXefxta aXX-qXaLs, rj fxev 
423 7T€V7]Tcov, 7] §6 vXovcrcojv' TOVTOJv 8' iv eKaTcpo. 
TTavu TToXXai, als iav [xkv u)s /xia TTpoa<^epr], iravros 
av afiapTois, eav Se w? TroAAat?, BlBovs to. rcbv 
erepojv rols irepois XPVH'^'^^ '^^ '^ci^ Swdfieig rj /cat 
avTovs, ^vfj,[jLa.)(ois p.kv ad ttoXXoZ? xPV^^''> '^°' 
Xefxiots S' oXiyoLs- Kal eois av 7) ttoXis ooi oiKfj 
aaj(f)p6vo)s ios dpTL iraxdr], {MeylaTr) earat,, ov tco 
evSoKtfjLelv Xeyo), oAA' cLs dXrjOcos ixeyiarrj, Kal idv 
fjLovov fi x^Xlcov Tctjv TTpoTToXefxovvTOJV ovTco ydp 
B fJL€ydXr]v ttoXlv fxiav ov paBcios ovre iv "K?<Xr]atv 
ovre ev ^ap^dpoLS evp-qaeis, hoKovaas 8e ttoXXols 
/cat TToXXanXaaLag rrjs TT^AtKauxTys. ■^ dXXcos otet; 
Ov [jid Tov At", €<f)rj. 

III. OvKovv, r]v S' iyco, ovTOS av et-q /cat /caA- 
Xtcrros opos roZg rjfierepois dpxovaiv, oarjv Set to 
fieyedos ttjv ttoXlv TTOieZadai /cat rjXiKrj ovarj oarjv 
Xijopav d(f)opLaap,€VOVs ttjv dXXr}v ;)^at/3etv eav. Ttj, 
e(/>T7, opos; Otyuat /xeV, -qv S' iyo), rovhe' fJ^^xpt^ ov 

" " As they say in the game " or " in the jest." The general 
meaning is plain. We do not know enough about the game 
called irdXeis {cf. scholiast, Suidas, Hesychius, and Photius) 
to be more specific. Cf. for conjectures and details Adam's 
note, and for the phrase Thompson on Meno 77 a. 

* Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1316 b 7 and 1264 a 25. 

" Aristotle, Pol. 1261 b 38, takes this as the actual number 
of the military class. Sparta, according to Xenophon, Rep. 
Lac. 1. 1, was tQv dXiyavOpwirordricv iroKeuv, yet one of the 
strongest. Cf. also Aristot. Pol. 1270 a 14. f. In the Laws 


" must be applied to the others. For they are each 
one of them many cities, not a city, as it goes in the 
game." There are two at the least at enmity >\-ith 
one another, the city of the rich and the city of the 
poor,** and in each of these there are many. If yon 
deal \\ith them as one you will altogether miss the 
mark, but if you treat them as a multiplicity by offer- 
ing to the one faction the property, the power, the 
very persons of the other, you will continue always 
to have few enemies and many alUes. And so long 
as your city is governed soberly in the order just laid 
down, it ^\-ill be the greatest of cities. I do not mean 
greatest in repute, but in reality, even though it have 
only a thousand "^ defenders. For a city of this size 
that is really one •* you will not easily discover either 
among Greeks or barbarians — but of those that seem 
so you will find many and many times the size of this. 
Or do you think otherwise ? " " No, indeed I don't," 
said he. 

III. " Would not this, then, be the best rule and 
measure for our governors of the proper size of 
the city and of the territory that they should 
mark off for a city of that size and seek no more ? " 
" What is the measure ? " "I think," said I, " that 

Plato proposes the number 5040 which Aristotle thinks too 
large, Pol. 1265 a 15. 

^ Commentators, I think, miss the subtlety of this sentence ; 
/uap means truly one as below in d, and its antithesis is not 
so much xoWds as doKovaas which means primarily the 
appearance of unity, and only secondarily refers to fj-eydX-qp. 
Kai then is rather "and" than "even."' "So large a city 
that is really one jou will not easily find, but the semblance 
(of one big city) you will find in cities many and many times 
the size of this." Cf. also 4-62 a-b, and mv paper " Plato's 
Laws and the Unity of Plato's Thought," Class. Phil. 1914, 
p. 358. For Aristotle's comment cf. Pol. 1261 a 15. 



av edeXrj av^ofiemj elvai jxia, fJ-^xpi' tovtov av^^iv, 
C Tripa 8e /xTy. Kat koXcos y , e^ry. Ovkovv koX 
rovTO av aAAo Trpocrrayfxa tols (f)vXa^t, Trpoard^ofxev, 
(fivXaTTeiv TTavTL rpoTTCp, OTTCos p-'^TC apiLKpa 7] 
TToXis earat pu-qre p,€ydX'r] SoKovaa, dXXd ns iKavr) 
Kal p.La. Kai ^avXov y , ^^^V' '^-^^^ avroZs -npoa- 
rd^op,ev. Kat tovtov ye, rjv 8' eyco, eVi (f>avX6- 
T€pov ToSe, ov Kal iv tu) Trpoadev eTTep.vr]adr]p.€v 
Xeyovres, cos Seoi, idu re tcov (f)vXdKO)v tls (f)avXos 
cKyovos yevrjTai, els tovs dXXovs avTov aTTO- 
D TTepiTreadai, idv t' eV tcov dXXcjv ajTOvSalos, ei? tovs 
(f)vXaKas. tovto 8' i^ovXeTO Br]Xovv, otl Kai tovs 


eva TTpos €v eKaoTOv epyov Set Kop,L^eiv, ottojs av 
€v TO avTOV iTTiTrjSevcov e/cacrros' P''f] ttoXXol, aAAa 
els yiyvrjTai, /cat ovtco Srj ^vpLiraaa t) ttoXis /xta 
(f)vr]Tai,, dXXd /xt) TroAAat. "Ecrrt ydp, e^^, tovto 
cKeivov apLLKpoTepov . Ovtoi, "^v 8' iyco, c5 'yaOe 
'ASetjaavre, co? So^eiev av tis, raCra TToAAa /cat 
E p-€ydXa avTols TvpooTdTTop^ev, aAAa TrdvTa cf)avXa, 
idv TO Xeyop^evov ev p,e.ya ^vXaTTOXJi, puoXXov 8 
dvTL pbeydXov tKavov. Tt tovto; e(f)r]. Trjv Trat- 

" The Greek idea of government required that the citizens 
should know one another. They would not have called 
Babylon, London or Chicago cities. Cf. Introd. p. xxviii. 
Fowler, Greek City State, passim, Newman, Aristot. Pol. 
vol. i. Introd. pp. 314-315, and Isocrates' complaint that 
Athens was too large, Antid. 171-172. 

* Ironical, of course. 

« Of. on 415 B. 

"* The special precept with regard to the guardians was 
significant of the universal principal, " one man, one task." 



they should let it grow so long as in its growth 
it consents'^ to remain a unity, but no further." 
" Excellent," he said. " Then is not this still 
another injunction that we should lay upon our 
guardians, to keep guard in every way that the city 
shall not be too small, nor great only in seeming, but 
that it shall be a sufficient city and one ? " " That 
behest will perhaps be an easy*" onefor them," he said. 
"And still easier,* haply," I said, " is this that we men- 
tioned before " when we said that if a degenerate off- 
spring was born to the guardians he must be sent away 
to the other classes, and likewise if a superior to the 
others he must be enrolled among the guardians ; 
and the purport of all this was ^ that the other citizens 
too must be sent to the task for which their natures 
were fitted, one man to one work, in order that each 
of them fulfilling his own function may be not 
many men, but one, and so the entire city may come 
to be not a multipUcity but a unity .^ " " Why yes," 
he said, " this is even more trifling than that." 
" These are not, my good Adeimantus, as one might 
suppose, numerous and difficult injunctions that we 
are imposing upon them, but they are all easy, 
provided they guard, as the saying is, the one great 
thing ^ — or instead of great let us call it sufficient.^ " 
" What is that ? " he said. " Their education and 

Cf. 443 c, 370 B-c (note), 394 e, 374 a-d, Laws 846 d- 
847 b. 

• It is a natural growth, not an artificial contrivance. 
For Aristotle's criticism cf. Pol. 1261 a. 

^ The proverbial one great thing (one thing needful). 
The proverb perhaps is : ttoXX' old' dXwwrj^ dW ex'""' ^'' M* 7^ 
(Suidas). Cf. Archil, fr. 61 Iv 5' iiriaraiMi fi^ya, Polit. 297 a 
tiAxp<-''''ip Sy iv niya (pvXdrTWffi. 

" /leya has the unfavourable associations of ?xos n^ya, and 
Uavdv, "adequate," is characteristically preferred by Plato. 



Seiav, ■^r S' iya>, /cat Tpo(f)rjv. iav yap er5 Trat- 
Sevofievoi ixirpioi av^pes yiyva>vrai, iravra ravra 
paSicos Sioipovrai, /cat a'AAa ye, ocra vvv rjixels 
TTapaXeLTTOfxev, rr]v re rcjv yvvaiK<jL)v Krrjaiv /cat 
424 ydjxcov /cat 77at8o770tta?, on Set ravra Kara rrjv 
TTapotpiiav iravra 6 ri [xdXiara kolvo. rd (f>i\cov 
TTOielodai. 'Opdorara yap, €(f>r], yiyvoir dv. Kat 
fi'qv, cIttov, TToAtreta, idvTrep drra^ oppbrjorj ev, 
epx^rai coairep kvk\os av^avojjievq. rpo(f)rj yap 
Kai TTalBevais XPl^^^l aiol^opiivr] (f>vaet,s dyadas 
ifiTTOLel, /cat av (f>vaei,s XPV^'^'^'' Totayrrj? TratSetas 
avriXapi^av6pL€vai en ^cXriovs rdJv -nporepayv 
B (jivovrai et? re rdAAa /cat els to yevvav, uiairep koX 
ev rols aAAot? ^(Locs. Et/co? y', ecj)r]. 'Q,g roLuvv 
Sid ^paxecov eiTTelv, rovrov dvdeKreov rols em- 
/jieXrjrais rrjs TToXecos, ottcos dv avrovs fir) Xadrj 
St,a(f)dapev, dXXd irapd Trdvra avrd <f>vXdrrco(n, ro 
fiTj vecorepit,eLV rrepl yvixvaanKijv re /cat jxovaiKrjv 
TTapd rr)v rd^tv, dXX ws olov re fxdXiara (f)vXar- 
reiv (f)o^ovp,evovs, orav ns Xeyrj, (hs r'qv doiSr^v 
fidXXov eTTL(f)poveov(Jiv dvdpOJTTOL, 

" Cf. on 416 B. Plato of course has in mind both the 
education already described and the higher education of 
books VI. and VII. 

* The indirect introduction of the proverb is characteristic 
of Plato's style. Cf. on 41.9 c, where the paradox thus lightly 
introduced is taken up for serious discussion. Quite 
fantastic is the hypthesis on which much ink has been 
wasted, that the Ecclesiazusae of Aristophanes was suggested 
by this sentence and is answered by the fifth book. Cf. 
Introd. pp. XXV and xxxiv. It ought not to be necessary to 
repeat that Plato's communism applies only to the guardians, 
and that its main purpose is to enforce their disinterested- 



nurture," I replied. " For if a right education* 
makes of them reasonable men they will easily dis- 
cover everything of this kind — and other principles 
that we now pass over, as that the possession of wives 
and marriage, and the procreation of children and all 
that sort of thing should be made as far as possible 
the proverbial goods of friends that are common.^" 
" Yes, that would be the best way," he said. "And, 
moreover," said I, " the state, if it once starts '^ well, 
proceeds as it were in a cycle ^ of growth. I mean that 
a sound nurture and education if kept up creates 
good natures in the state, and sound natures in turn 
receiving an education of this sort develop into better 
men than their predecessors both for other purposes 
and for the production of offspring as among animals 
also.* " " It is probable," he said. " To put it 
briefly, then," said I, " it is to this that the overseers 
of our state must cleave and be watchful against its 
insensible corruption. They must throughout be 
watchful against innovations in music and gyni- 
nastics counter to the estabhshed order, and to the 
best of their power guard against them, fearing when 
anyone says that that song is most regarded among 

iiess. Cf. Introd. pp. xv and note a, xxxiv, xlii, xliv, and 
" Plato's Laws and the Unity of Plato's Thought," p. 358. 
Aristotle's criticism is that the possessions of friends ought to 
be common in use but not in ownership. Cf. Pol. 1263 a 30, 
and Eurip. Androm. 376-377. 

' Cf. Polit. 305 D Tr)v apxw '''^ fit bpfiT)v. 

^ No concrete metaphor of wheel, hook or circle seems 
to be intended, but only the cycle of cumulative effect of 
education on nature and nature on education, described in 
what follows. See the evidence collected in my note, Class. 
Phil. vol. V. pp. 305-507. 

• Cf. 459 A. 



r^Tis" aetSovTCcrai v€(x)rdrrj afj,(f>i,7T€X7]Tai, 


acr/xara via, aAAa rpoirov (hSrjs veov, Kal tovto 
€7TaLvfj. Sei S' ovT^ iiraLvelv to toiovtov ovre 
V7ToXap.^dv€Lv. ethos yap Kacvov fjLovatKi]s fxera- 
jSaAAeit' €i)Xa^7]Teov ct»s" iv oXo) Kivhvvevovra' 
ovSa/xov yap Ktvovvrac [xovaLKrjs rpoiroL dvev 
TToXiriKibv vofJLCDV Tcjov fieyiaTCov, co? (f)r]<Jt re 
Aafi(vv Kal iyo) TTcWofxai. Kat e/xe tolvvv, €(f)r) 6 
ASeifjiavTos, des twv TreTTetaixevwv . 
D IV. To St^ (f)vXaKrrjpLov, rjv S' iyco, d)s eoiKev, 
evTavdd ttov oLKoSofxrjreov tols (f)vXa^t.v, iv fiovaiKfj. 
H yovv TTapavofJila, i(f>y], paSto)? avrr] Xavddvei, 
TTapabvopLiviq. Nai, €(f)7]v, cos iv TratSias' ye fxipet 
/cat d)s KaKov ovhev ipyal^ofiivr]. OvSe yap ipyd- 
t,€raL, i(f)rj, dXXo ye -q Kara aynKpov elaoLKLcrajJiivr] 
rjpejxa viroppeZ npos rd tJOtj re Kal rd inirr)- 
Sevjxara' iK Se TOVTa>v els rd rrpos dXXTJXovs 

" Od. i. 351. Our text has eTriKXeiova and dKov6vTe<r(ri. 
For the variant cf, Howes in Harvard Studies, vi. p. 205. 
For the commonplace that new songs are best cf. Pindar, 
01. ix. 52. 

" Cf. Stallbaum on Phaedr. 238 d-e, Forman, Plato 
Selections, p. 457. 

* The meaning of the similar phrase in Pindar, 01. iii. 4 
is different. 

^ fiovffiKrjs rpbiroi need not be so technical as it is in later 
Greek writers on music, who, however, were greatly in- 
fluenced by Plato. For the ethical and social power of 
music cf. Introd. p. xiv note c, and supra 401 d-404 a, also 
Laws 700 D-E, 701 A. 

' Cf. Protag. 316 a, Julian 150 b. 

* The etymological force of the word makes the metaphor 
less harsh than the English translation " guard-house." Cf, 
Laics 962 c, where Bury renders '* safeguard." Cf. Pindar's 


which hovers newest on the singer's lips,* 

kst haply ** it be supposed that the poet means not 
new songs but a new way of song <^ and is commending 
tliis. But we must not praise that sort of thing nor 
conceive it to be the poet's meaning. For a change 
to a new type of music is something to beware of 
;is a hazard of all our fortunes. For the modes of 
music '^ are never disturbed without unsettling of the 
most fundamental political and social conventions, as 
Damon affirms and as I am convinced/ " " Set me 
too do\vn in the number of the convinced," said 

IV. " It is here, then," I said, "in music, as it seems, 
that our guardians must build their guard-house ' and 
post of watch." " It is certain," he said, " that 
this is the kind of lawlessness ' that easily insinuates * 
itself unobserved." " Yes," said I, " because it is 
supposed to be only a form of play ♦ and to work no 
harm." " Nor does it work any," he said, " except 
that by gradual infiltration it softly overflows ^ upon 
the characters and pursuits of men and from these 
issues forth grown greater to attack their business 

dAcoi-as Xtyvpdsj the sharpening thing, that is, the whetstone, 
01. vi. 82. 

» rapavofiia besides its moral meaning (537 e) suggests 
lawless innovation in music, from association with the musical 
sense of vdfios. Cf. Chicago Studies in Class. Phil. i. p. 22 
n. 4. 

* So Aristot. Pol. 1307 b 33. 

• Cf. the warning against innovation in children's games. 
Laws 797 a-b. But music is iraiSeta as well as wai8id. Cf, 
Aristotle's three uses of music, for play, education, and the 
entertainment of leisure {Pol. 1339 a 16). 

^ Cf. Demosth. xix. 228. The image is that of a stream 
overflowing and spreading. Cf, Eurip. /r. 499 N. and 
Cicero's use of " serpit," Cat. iv. 3, and passim. 



^UjUjSdAata yieit^cov e/c^atVet, e/c Se 817 rojt' ^u/u- 
E ^oXalcov epx^Tat eirl rovs vojjlovs /cat TroAtretas" crvv 
TToXXfj, o) YiUjKpares, daeXyeia, eco? oil' reXevTioaa 
TTavra ISta /cat SrjfioaLO. dvarpeifjr]. Kiev, -qv 8' 
iyw' ovTCo tovt' €-)(€l; AoKet jjLOi, €(f)r). Ovkovv 
o i^ ^PXV^ eXeyoixev, TOig rjiJierepotg Traiarlv iv- 
vofjicorepov evdvs TiatSta? /xedeKreov, a>? Trapavofiov 
ytyvofjLevrjs avrrjs /cat TTaiSow roiovrcov iwofxavg re. 
425 Krai aTTouSatous" e^ avroiv dvBpas av^dveadai 
dhvvaTOV 6v; Ylcos 8 ov^i; e(f>r]. "Orav' 817 apa 
KaXcos dp^d/Jievoi, nalSes TTatt,eiv evvofxiav Std ttjs 
fXOvaiKrjs eiahe^covrai, irdXiv rovvavriov •^ *K€lvois 
€Ls TTavra ^vvcTreraL re /cat av^ei, eTravopdovaa el 
ri /cat nporepov rrjs iroXecos e/cetro. ^AXrjdrj fievroL, 
e<f)r]. Kat rd apuKpd dpa, etTTOV, SoKovvra eirat 
rd/tt/Lta e^evpiaKovaiv ovroi, a ol irporepov drr- 
(vXXvaav TTavra. noia; Td TotdSe* aiydg re 
•^ T(X)V veojrepoiv Trapd TTpecr^vrepois, as vpeTTei, /cat 
/cara/cAtCTet? /cat VTTavaardaeis /cat yovewv depa- 
TTeias, /cat Kovpds ye /cat dfiTTe^ovas /cat i57ro8eCTets' 
/cat oAot' rot' tou acofjLaros axi^p-arLapiov /cat xdAAa 
OCTa roiavra. rj ovk o'Ui; "Eycoye. No/xo^ereti' 
8' auTCt olpLaL ev-qdes' ovre yap ttov yiyverai ovr^ 
dv jxelvecev, Xoycp re /cat ypdfi/jiaat, voixoderrjdevra. 

' Cf. on 389 D. 

'' The reference is to the general tenour of what precedes, 

' irpdrepov is an unconscious lapse from the construction 
of an ideal state to the reformation of degenerate Athens. 
Cf. Isoc. Areopagiticus 41 ff., and Laws 876 b-c, 948 c-d. 

"* For these traits of old-fashioned decorum and modesty 
cf. Aristoph. Clouds 961-1023, Blaydes on 991, Herod, ii. 
80, Isoc. Areopagit. 48-49. 

' Cf. Starkie on Aristoph. Wasps 1069. 


dealings, and from these relations it proceeds 
against the laws and the constitution with wanton 
licence, Socrates, till finally it overthrows" all things 
pubhc and private." " Well," said I, " are these 
things so ? " " I think so," he said. " Then, as we 
were saying '' in the beginning, our youth must join 
in a more law-abiding play, since, if play grows law- 
less and the children like^^ise, it is impossible that 
they should grow up to be men of serious temper and 
lawful spirit." " Of course," he said. " And so we 
may reason that when children in their earliest play 
are imbued with the spirit of law and order through 
their music, the opposite of the former supposition 
happens — this spirit waits upon them in all things and 
fosters their gro^^i:h, and restores and sets up again 
whatever was overthrown in the other'' type of state." 
*' True, indeed," he said. " Then such men redis- 
cover for themselves those seemingly trifling conven- 
tions which their predecessors abolished altogether." 
" Of what sort ? " " Such things as the becoming 
silence ** of the young in the presence of their elders ; 
the giving place to them and rising up before them, 
and dutiful service of parents, and the cut of the 
hair * and the garments and the fashion of the foot- 
gear, and in general the deportment of the body and 
everything of the kind. Don't you think so ? " 
" I do." " Yet to enact them into laws would, I 
think, be silly .-^ For such laws are not obeyed nor 
would they last, being enacted only in words and on 

* Cf. on 412 B, Isoc. Areopagit. 41, and Laics 788 b, 
where the further, still pertinent consideration is added that 
the multiplication of minor enactments tends to bring funda- 
mental laws into contempt. Cf. " Plato's Laves and the 
Unity of Plato's Thought," p. 353, n. 2. 



rioj:? yap; J^ivSwevei, yovv, ■^v 8' iyo), cS 'ASet- 
fiavre, e/c rrjs TratSetas', ottol av ns opfii^arj, 

C ToiauTa KaL ra errofxeva etvat. r^ ovk del to 
ofjLotov ov ofxoLov TTapaKoXeZ ; Ti fxriv; Kat re- 
AeuTcDi' St^, olp,ai, ^ai/xev at' et? eV rt reAeot' /cat 
t'eap'i/cov aTTo^aiveiv avro r) dya^ov ^ /cat rouvai'- 
Tt'ov. Tt yap ovk; 77 S' o?. 'Eyco /xet' roivvv, 
cIttov, Std ravra ovk av en to, roiavra cttl- 
X€ipTJaai,[jii vopLodereZv. Et/coroj? y', e^''?- Tt 8e, 
c5 77p6? decov, €(f)r]v, ra dyopala ^vfjc^oXaicov re 
Trept /car' dyopdv e/cacTTOt d Trpds' dAArjAows' ivp,- 

D ^dXXovcnv, ei 8e ^ovXei, Kal ;^et/)OTe;)^vt/cdjv Trept 
^vfji^oXalcov Kal XoiSopLcov Kal at/cta? /cat St/ccuv 
Ary^et?^ /cat St/cacrrajr KaTaordaeis , /cat et ttou 
TeAcDt' Ttve? r^ Trpd^etg t] Oeueis dvayKalot elcnv •^ 
/car' dyopd? ■^ At/xeVa?, •^ /cat rd TTapdnav dyopa- 
vofMLKa drra r} daTWOfiLKa t) iXXcfieviKa rj oaa 
dXXa TOLavra, tovtcov ToXp^rjaopiiv ri vopboOeTelv ; 
'AAA' OVK d^iov, €(f>r], dvSpdai KaXols Kdyadols 
eTTtraTTetv Ta TToXXd yap avrcov, oaa Set vop.oder'q- 

E aaadai, pahicos ttov evpr^aovaiv. Nat, cS (j)iXe, 
cIttov, idv ye 9e6g avrols StSoi acoTr^piav rcuv 

1 X^^ews q : X-q^eis others. 

" Cf. 401 c, Demosth. 01 y nth. iii. 33 riXewv n Kal ixiya. 

'> TO. roiavra is slightly contemptuous. Specific commercial, 
industrial and criminal legislation was not compatible with 
the plan of the Republic, and so Plato omits it here. Much 
of it is given in the Laws, but even there details are left to 
the citizens and their rulers. Cf. supra on 413 b. 

" Cf. Laws 922 a, Aristot. Pol. J 263 b 21. All legal 
relations of contract, implied contract and tort. 

''In Laws 920 d Plato allows a dlKr] dreXovs ofioXoyias against 



paper." " How could they ? " " At any rate, 
Adeimantus," I said, " the direction of the education 
from whence one starts is Ukely to determine the 
quahty of what follows. Does not like ever summon 
like?" "Surely." "And the final" outcome, 1 
]Hesume, we would say is one complete and vigorous 
product of good or the reverse." " Of course," said 
he. " For my part, then," I said, " for these reasons 
I would not go on to try to legislate on such 
matters. *"" "With good reason," said he. "But what, 
in heaven's name," said I, " about business matters, 
the deals " that men make with one another in the 
agora — and, if you please, contracts with workmen'* 
and actions for foul language* and assault, the filing of 
declarations,' the impanelling of juries, the payment 
and exaction of any dues that may be needful in 
markets or harbours and in general market, police or 
harbour regulations and the like, can we brings our- 
selves to legislate about these ? " " Nay, 'twould not 
be fitting," he said, "to dictate to good and honour- 
able men.'^ For most of the enactments that are 
needed about these things they will easily, I presume, 
discover." "Yes, myfriend, provided Godgrants them 
the preservation of the principles of law that we have 

workmen or contractors who break or fail to complete con- 

* Cf. Laws 935 c. There was no \oidopias SUr) under that 
name at Athens, but certain words were actionable, dirdpfynra, 
and there was a SiK-q KaK-r]yopla%. 

^ Plato shows his contempt for the subject by this confused 
enumeration, passing without warning from contracts and 
torts to procedure and then to taxes, market, harbour and 
police regulations. 

" To\ii.y\(joii.iv is both " venture " and " deign." 

* Cf. Isoc. Panegyr. 78 Srt roils KaXoh KayaOoh tSjv avdpui-ruv 
ovSiv derjaei iroWwv ypap.n6.ru3v, 

VOL. I z 337 


voficov (Lv efMTTpoaOev Si-qXBofiev. Et 8e fx-q ye, Ty 
8' OS, TToAAo. roiavra rcdefxevoL del Kal eiravopdov- 
fxevoL rov ^iov StareAecrouatv, olojxevoL e7nXT]ifjeadai 
Tov ^eXriarov . Aeyeij, e^T^t- eyco, ^LOjaeadaL tous 
TOLovTOVs axTvep Tovs Kajjivovrds re Kal ovk 
edeXovras vtto aKoXaaias eK^rjvai TTOvqpds SiatT'qs. 
426 Yldvv puev ovv. Kat fj,r]v odrol ye ■)(apUvrais 
SiareXovaiv. larpevofjievoL yap ovBev Trepaivovai, 
ttXtiv ye TTOiKiXajrepa Kal ju,ei^a> ttoiovgl to. vo- 
a-q/jiara, Kal del eXTTLt,ovres, edv tls ^dpfxaKov 
^v/jL^ouXevarj, vtto tovtov eaeadai vyiels. Yldvv 
yap, e(f>rj, tcjv ovro) Kapivovrcov rd roiavra Trddrj. 
I oe; rjv o eyco' rode avrojv ov )(apLev, ro 
rravroiv exOi^f^Tov rjyeiodai, rov rdXrjdrj Xeyovra, 
on rrplv dv /jlcBvcov Kal ejXTrnrXdpLevos Kal d(f)poBL- 
B aid^cDV Kal dpycbv Travar^rai, ovre (f)dpfiaKa ovre 
Kavcreis ovre rofial ov8^ av eTTcoSal avrov ouSe 
TTepiawra ovBe dXXo rdJv roiovrojv ovhev ovrjoet; 
Ov irdvv )(^apLev, e^rj' rd yap rep ev Xeyovri 
XO-XeTTaiveiv ovk ep^et X'^piv. Ovk eTTaiverrjs et, 
€(/)rjv iyio, ws eoiKas, ru)v roLovra>v dvhpojv. Ov 
fjLevroL fid At'a. 

" Cf. Emerson, " Experience " : " Thej' wish to be saved 
from the mischiefs of their vices but not from their vices. 
Charity would be wasted on this poor waiting on the 
symptoms. A wise and hardy physician will say, ' Come 
out of that ' as the first condition of advice." 

" Ironical. Quite fanciful is Dummler's supposition 
(Kleine Schriften, i. p. 99) that this passage was meant as 
destructive criticism of Isocrates' Panegyrkus and that 
Anfid. 62 is a reply, Plato is obviously thinking of practical 
politicians rather than of Isocrates. 

" wXr/v ye etc., Is loosely elliptical, but emendations are 


already discussed." " Failing that," said he, " they 
will pass their lives multiplying such petty laws and 
amending them in the expectation of attaining what is 
best." "You mean," said I, "that the life of such 
citizens will resemble that of men who are sick, yet 
from intemperance are unwilling to abandon <" their 
unwholesome regimen." " By all means." " And 
truly," said I, " these latter go on in a most charming** 
fashion. For vdih all their doctoring they accomplish 
nothing except to complicate and augment their 
maladies. And '^ they are always hoping that some 
one will recommend a panacea that \^-ill restore their 
health." " A perfect description," he said, " of the 
state of such invalids." " And isn't this a charming 
trait in them, that they hate most in all the world him 
who tells them the truth that until a man stops drinking 
and gorging and wenching and idhng, neither drugs •* 
nor cautery nor the knife, no, nor spells nor periapts « 
nor anything of that kind will be of any avail?" 
" Not altogether charming," he said, " for there is no 
grace or charm in being angrj' ' with him who speaks 
well." "You do not seem to be an admirer^ of 
such people," said I. " No, by heaven, I am not." 

'' For the list c/. Pindar, Pyth. iii. 50-54.. ovo at em- 
phasizes the transition to superstitious remedies in which 
Plato doesn't reallv believe. Cf. his rationalizing interpreta- 
tion of eircjjSat, Charm. 157 a, flieaetet. 149 c. Laws 933 a-b 
is to be interpreted in the spirit of the observation in Selden's 
Table Talk : "The law against witches does not prove that there 
bee any but it punishes the malice," etc. [Demosthenes] 
XXV. 80 is sceptical. 

• Cf. anv lexicon. Shakes. 1 Henry VI. v. iii. 2 "Now 
help, ye charming spells and periapts," and Plutarch's story 
of the women who hung them on Pericles' neck on his 
death-bed. ' Cf. 480 a, 354 a. 

' The noim is more forcible than the verb would be. Cf. 
Protag. 309 a eiraiv^TTis. 



V. OuS' ai^ Tj TToXis apa, oTrep dprt, iXeyofxev, 
oXrj TOLOvrov noLrj, ovk ivaLvecreL. rj ov <f>aivov- 
rat (JOL raVTOV ipyd^eadai rovrois rcov ttoXccov 

C ocrat KaKcos TToXiTevoyLevai rrpoayopevovcn rots 
TToXtrais Tr)v jxkv Kardaraatv rrjs TToXeojs oXrjv [myj 
KLvelv, d>s oLTTodavovfievovg , o? a;' tovto 8/>a* o? 
8' av a(f)dg ovrco TToXirevofJievovs -qSiara OepaTrevr) 
/cat ■x^apil,riTaL VTTorpextov Kal TrpoytyvcooKcov rds 
CT^erepas' ^ovXrjcjeLs koL ravrag Seivos fj oltto- 
rrXrjpovv, ovrog dpa dyados re earai dvr]p Kal aocjiog 
ra fxeydXa koL ripur^aeraL vtto a(j>cbv; Tavrov fxev 
ovv, €(f)r], efioiye hoKovai hpdv, Kal oyS' oTTOianovv 

D eTTaLvdJ. Tt S' av rovs deXovra? Bepaireveiv rds 
roiavras ttoXcls Kal TrpodvpLovp^evovs ovk dyaaai 
rrjs dvSpeias re Kal ev)(epeias; "Eycuy', e<^i7, 
ttXtjv y' oaoL e^rjTTdrrjvrai vtt' avrcbv Kal o'iovrai, 
rfj dXrjdeia TToXiriKol elvac, on eTraivovvrai vtto 
rdiv TToXXdjv. HdJs Xeyeis; ov (JvyyiyvwaKeis, 

" We return from the illustration to its application to the 

* bf. 497 B, Aristot. Pol, 1301 b 11. Cf. the obvious 
imitation in the (probably spurious) Epistle vii. 330 e. 
For the thought, from the point of view of an enemy of 
democracy, cf. the statement in [Xen.] Rep. Ath. 3. 9, that 
the faults of Athens cannot be corrected while she remains a 
democracy. The Athenians naturally guarded their con- 
stitution and viewed with equal suspicion the idealistic re- 
former and the oligarchical reactionary. 

" Gf. supra, p. 65 note d, and Imws 923 b. The phraseology 
here recalls Gorg. 517 b, Aristoph. Knights 46-63. Gf. 
" Plato's Laws and the Unity of Plato's Thought," Class. 
Phil. vol. ix. (Oct. 1914) p. 363, n. 3, 

" Almost technical. Gf. 538 b. 

' Here " serve," not " flatter." 

f This word evx^peia is often misunderstood by lexicons and 
commentators. It is of course not " dexterity " (L. & S.) nor 


V. " Neither then, if an entire city," as we were 
just now saying, acts in this way, will it have your 
approval, or don't you think that the way of such 
invalids is precisely that of those cities which being 
badly governed forewarn their citizens not to meddle ^ 
with the general constitution of the state, denouncing 
death to whosoever attempts that — while whoever 
most agreeably serves '^ them governed as they are and 
who curries favour with them by fawning upon them 
and anticipating their desires and by his cleverness in 
irratifying them, him they will account the good man, 
the man wise in worthwhile things,** the man they will 
delight to honour ? " " Yes," he said, " I think their 
conduct is identical, and I don't approve it in the very 
least." " And what again of those who are willing 
and eager to serve ^ such states ? Don't you admire 
their vahance and light-hearted irresponsibility-'^? " 

I do," he said, " except those who are actually 
deluded and suppose themselves to be in truth 
statesmen' because they are praised by the many." 
" What do you mean ? Can't you make allowances '^ 

yet probably " complaisance," nor yet " humanitas " or 
" Gutmiitigkeit," as Adam and Schneider think. It ex- 
presses rather the lightheartedness with which such politicians 
rush in where wiser men fear to tread, which is akin to the 
lightness with which men plunge into crime. Cf. Laws 690 d 
tQv iiri vbixiav dfcriv Iovtuv p<}diw^ and 969 a avSpeioraroi. Plato's 
political physician makes " come out of that " a precondition 
of his treatment. Cf. Laws 736-737, Pol it. 299 a-b, in/ra 
501 A, 540 E, Epistle vii. 330 c-d, and the story in Aelian, 
V.H. ii. 42, of Plato's refusal to legislate for the Arcadians 
because they would not accept an equalization of propertv. 

' Cf. Euthyphro 2 c-d, Gorg. 513 b, Polit. 275 c and 
292 D. 

* Plato often condescendingly and half ironically pardons 
psychologically inevitable errors. Cf. 366 c, Phaedr. 269 b, 
Euthydem. 306 c. 



rjv 8' iyco, Tols dvBpdaLv; rj o'Ul olov r elvai 
dvhpX jxr) iTTiaTafievct) fierpeiv, irepcov toiovtcov 
TToAAcui' Xcyovrcxjv otl r€Tpd7r7])(vs eariv, avrov 

E ravra p,rj -qyeladaL rrepl avrov; Ovk av, €(f>7], 
rovro ye. Mt) tolvvv ;)^aAe7raiv'e • /cat yap ttov 
etai TTai'TWV ■)^apUararoL ol tolovtol, vofioOeTOvv- 
re? T€ Ota aprt Bi-qXdojxev /cat eTravopOovvres del 
olofievoi TL TTepas evprjaeiv irepl rd ev rols ivjx- 
^oXaioLs KaKovpyrjpLara /cat Trepl a vvv Srj eyd) 
eXeyov, dyvoovvTe<s on tco ovtl cjOTrep "YSpav 
427 repLvovaiv . Kat p-rjv, e(f)r), ovk aAAo ti ye TTOiovaiv. 
'Eyw fiev roivvv, rjv §' eyo), ro roiovrov etSo? 
vofiojv irept, /cat TToXireias ovr^ ev /ca/ccD? ovr* ev ev 
TToXtrevo^evr) TToXec cpjxrjv av helv rov dXrjdivov 
vofxoderrjv Trpayiiareveodai, ev rfj fxev on dvco(f>eXri 
/cat TrXeov ovSev, ev 8e rfj, on rd fiev avrdJv Kav 
oariaovv evpoi, rd he on avrofiara eTreiartv eV 
rcbv efiTTpoaOev emrrjhevixdnxiv . 

B Tt ovv, ecfy-q, en, dv rjjjiiv Xolttov rrjg vopLodeaiag 
elrj; /cat eyoj elirov on 'Wplv piev ov8ev, rip pevrot, 
'AttoAAcovi r(p ev AeA^otj rd re peyiara /cat /caAAtcrra 
Kal TTpoJra rojv vop,oderr]pidrcov. Tdnola; ■^ 8 os. 

" For OVK a5 cf. 393 d, 442 a, Theaetet. 161a, Class. Phil. 
vol. xxiii. pp. 285-287. i^yw-^e above concurs with Ayaaai, 
ignoring the irony. TrX^f ye etc. marks dissent on one 
point. This dissent is challenged, and is withdrawn by 
OVK aC . . . TovTo ye (ol/xai)- 

* T(fi 6vTi points the application of the proverbial vSpav 
riixviiv, which appears in its now trite metaphorical use for 
the first time here and in Euthydem. 297 c. Cf. my note on 
Horace iv. 4. 61. For the thought cf. Isoc. vii. 40, Macrob. 
Sat. ii. 13 "leges bonae ex malis moribus procreantur," 
Arcesilaus apud Stob. Flor. xliii. 91 ovtu Srj Kal Sirov vo/xoi 



for the men ? Do you think it possible for a man who 
does not know how to measure when a multitude of 
others equally ignorant assure him that he is four 
cubits tall not to suppose this to be the fact about 
himself?" "Why no,"" he said, "I don't think 
that." " Then don't be harsh with them. For surely 
such fellows are the most charming spectacle in the 
world when they enact and amend such laws as we 
just now described and are perpetually expecting to 
find a way of putting an end to frauds in business and 
in the other matters of which I was speaking because 
they can't see that they are in very truth ^ trying to 
cut off a Hydra's head." " Indeed," he said, " that 
is exactly what they are doing." " I, then," said I, 
" should not have supposed ' that the true lawgiver 
ought to work out matters of that kind'' in the laws and 
the constitution of either an ill-governed or a well- 
governed state — in the one because they are useless 
and accomplish nothing, in the other because some of 
them anybody could discover and others will result 
spontaneously from the pursuits already described." 
" What part of legislation, then," he said, " is still 
left for us ? " And I replied, " For us nothing, but 
for the Apollo of Delphi, the chief, the fairest and the 
first of enactments." '* What are they ? " he said. 

rXewTot iKCi /cat aSiKiav tlrai fieyia-rqw, Theophrastus apud 
Stob. Flor. xxxvii. 21 dXiycjv ol ayadoi pSfuav dtovrau 

' Ironically, " I should not have supposed, but for the 
practice of our politicians." 

"* elooi vofiuiv -ripi is here a mere periphrasis, though the 
true classification of laws was a topic of the day. Cf. 
Ijows 630 E, Aristot. PoL 1267 b 37. Plato is not always 
careful to mark the distinction between the legislation 
which he rejects altogether and that which he leaves to the 
discretion of the citizens. 



'lepaJv re ISpvaeis Kal dvaiai koL aAAat decbv re 
/cat Saifiovcov Kal -qpcocov depaTreZai. reXevr-qadv- 
rojv* re' av drJKac Kal oaa rois eKel hel vrnqpe- 
Tovvras lAeoj? avrov? ^X^'-^' '''^ Y^P ^V TOLavra 
C ovr^ eTTLcrrdfjieOa rjp.els olKil^ovres re ttoXlv ovSevl 
dXXu) TTeiaofxeda, idv vovv e;)^a>/x€i', ouSe xPV^^fxeda 
i^-qyrjrfj dAA' rj rep Trarplco. ovrog yap Si^ttou 
o deos nepl rd roiavra Trdaiv dvOpconoLS rrarpLOS 
e^Tjyqrr]? ev p,eacp rijs yrjs eirl rov 6pi(f)aXov Kad- 
7][jLevos e^rjyetrat,. Kat KaXws y* , e(j>v^, Xeyeis' /cat 


J) VI. 'Q.LKL(jfi€inf] fxev roivvv, rjv 8' eyco, rjSrj av 
aoi €L7], c5 TTttt ^ Kpiarojvos , rj ttoXis' to Se 8rj jxerd 
rovro OKOTTei ev avrfj (f>a)g iroQev TTopiaapievos 
LKavov avTos re Kal rov d8eX(f>6v rrapaKdXet Kal 
YloXefjLapxov Kal rovs dXXovg, edv ttcds lha>pLev, ttov 
ttot' dv e'ir] rj StKaioavvr] Kal ttov rj dSt/cta, /cat ri 

"» ^A:et = in the other world. So often. 

*■ For the exegete as a special religious functionary at 
Athens cf. L. & S. s.v. and Laws 759 c-d. Apollo in a 
higher sense is the interpreter of religion for all mankind. 
He is technically warpt^os at Athens {Euthydem. 302 d) but 
he is Trdrpios for all Greeks and all men. Plato does not, as 
Thiimser says (p. 301), confuse the Dorian and the Ionian 
Apollo, but rises above the distinction. 

" Plato prudently or piously leaves the details of cere- 
monial and institutional religion to Delphi. Cf. 540 b-c. 
Laws 759 c, 738 b-c, 828 a, 856 e, 865 b, 914 a, 947 d. 

■* This " navel " stone, supposed to mark the centre of the 
earth, has now been found. Cf. Poulsen's Delphi, pp. 19, 
29, 157, and Frazer on Pausanias x. 16. 

* Not the dvayKaioTarr] w6\ts of 369 E, nor the (fAeyfiaivovffa 
TToXts of 372 E, but the purified city of 399 e has now been 
established and described. The search for justice that follows 
formulates for the first time the doctrine of the four cardinal 
virtues and defines each provisionally and sufficiently for the 



" The founding of temples, and sacrifices, and other 
forms of worship of gods, daemons, and heroes ; and 
likewise the burial of the dead and the ser^■ices we 
must render to the dwellers in the world beyond " to 
keep them gracious. For of such matters we neither 
know anything nor in the founding of our city if we 
are wise shall we entrust them to any other or make 
use of any other interpreter ^ than the God of our 
fathers.'' For this God surely is in such matters for 
all mankind the interpreter of the religion of their 
fathers who from his seat in the middle and at the 
very navel <* of the earth delivers his interpretation." 
" Excellently said," he replied ; " and that is what we 
must do." 

VI. " Atlast,then,sonof Ariston,"saidI,"yourcity* 
may be considered as established. The next thing is to 
procure a sufficient light somewhere and to look your- 
self,/ and call in the aid of your brother and of Polem- 
archus and the rest, if we may in an}- wise discover 
where justice and injustice' should be in it, wherein 

present purpose, and solves the problems dramatically pre- 
sented in the minor dialogues, Charmides, Laches, etc, Cf. 
Unity of Plato's Thought, pp. 15-18, nn. 81-102, and the 
introduction to the second volume of this translation. 

' airroi re Kai : cf. 398 A. 

• See on 369 a. Matter-of-fact critics may object that there 
is no injustice in the perfectly good state. But we know 
the bad best by the canon of the good. Cf. on 409 a-b. 
The knowledge of opposites is the same. 

Injustice can be defined only in relation to its opposite 
(444 a-b), and in the final argument the most unjust man 
and state are set up as the extreme antitypes of the ideal 
(571-580). By the perfect state Plato does not mean a 
state in which no individual retains any human imperfections. 

It is idle then to speak of "difficulties" or "contradic- 
tions " or changes of plan in the composition of the Republic. 



aXXrjXoiv Sta(f)€peTOV, Kal TTorepov Set KeKrijaOai 
Tov fieXAovra evSaifiova etvai, idv re Xavddvrj idv 
T€ fiTj TTOLVTas deovs re /cat dvdpcoTTovs. OvSev 
Aeyets", €(f>r] 6 VXauKcov av yap vnecrxov t,irjr'^Geiv, 
E d)s oux ooLov aoi ov jxr] ov ^o-qdeXu SiKacocrvvrj 
ei? SuvajJiLV TTavTL rpoTTCo. ^AXtjOt], e(f>rjv iyco, vtto- 
IXLjxvqaKetg, Kal TTOirjreov jxiv ye ovrco, xpr] 8e /cat 
UjLta? ^vXAa/jL^dveiv. 'AAA', e^r^, TTonjaopLev ovtoj. 
EiXttl(,(x) ToivvVy rjv S iyw, evprjaeiv avro o58e. 
ot/xat r^pJiv TTjv ttoXlv, eiTrep 6p9cbg ye wKiarai, 
reXecos dyadrjv elvai. 'Amy/CTj, €(f)r]. ArjXov 8-q 
OTt ao<f}ri T e'cTTt /cat dvSpela /cat aco(f)p(X)v /cat 
St/cata. A'^Aot'. Ou/cow o Tt ai/ auTOJV' €vpa)pev 
iv avTjj, TO VTToXoiTTov eaxttt to ovx €vp-qp,€vov ; 
428 Tt /AT^i^; "Q-arrep tolvvv dXXcov tivcov TeTrdpoju, 
et eV Tt it,rjTovp€v avrcov iv orcoovv, ottotc 
TTpwTov eKelvo eyva>p.€V, LKavoJs dv elx^v rjplv, et 
Se TO. rpta Trporepov iyvojpcaapev, avrw du tovtco 
eyvioptaro to ^-qTOvpevov SrjXov yap otl ovk dXXo 

" For idv re . . . idv re cf. 367 E, 

"" Cf. supra 331 e. Emphatic as in 41.9 d-4o0 a, Phaedo 
95 A, and Ahib. I. 135 d. 

" Cf. 368 B-c. 

"* Cf. 434 E, 449 A. This in a sense begs the original 
question in controversy with Thrasymachus, by the assump- 
tion that justice and the other moral virtues are goods. Cf. 
Oorg. 507 c. See The Idea of Good in Plato's Republic, p. 205. 
Por the cardinal virtues cf. Schmidt, Ethik der Oriechen, i. 
p. 304, Pearson, Fragments of Zeno and Cleanthes, pp. 173f., 
and commentators on Pindar, Nem. iii. 74, which seems to 
refer to four periods of human life, and Xen. Mem. iii. 9. 
1-5, and iv. 6. 1-12. 

Plato recognizes other virtues even in the Repxiblic {supra 
402 c iXivdepioT-qs and fjieyaXowpiireM. Cf. 536 a), and would 
have been as ready to admit that the number four was a 


they differ from one another and which of the two he 
must have who is to be happy, aUke " whether his 
condition is known or not known to all gods and men." 
" Nonsense," said Glaucon, " you * promised that you 
would carry on the search yourself, admitting that 
it would be impious "^ for you not to come to the aid of 
justice by every means in your power." " A true 
reminder," I said, " and I must do so, but you also 
must lend a hand." " Well," he said, " we will." 
" I expect then," said I, " that we shall find it in this 
way. I think our city, if it has been rightly founded, 
is good inthefullsenseof the word.**" "Necessarily," 
he said. " Clearly, then, it will be wise, brave, sober, 
and just." " Clearly." " Then if we find any of 
these qualities in it, the remainder « will be that which 
we have not found ? " " Surely." " Take the case 
of any four other things. If we were looking for any 
one of them in anything and recognized the object 
of our search first, that would have been enough for 
us, but if we had recognized the other three first, 
that in itself would have made known to us the thing 
we were seeking. For plainly there was nothing 

part of his literary machinery as Ruskin was to confess the 
arbitrariness of his Seven Lamps of Architecture. 

» It is pedantry to identify this with Mill's method of 
residues and then comment on the primitive naivete of such 
an application of Logic to ethics. One might as well speak 
of Andocides' employment of the method {De myst. 109) or 
of its use by Gorgias in the disjunctive dilemma of the 
Palamedes 1 1 and passim, or say that the dog of the anec- 
dote employs it when he sniffs at one trail and immediately 
runs up the other. Plato obviously employs it merely as a 
literary device for the presentation of his material under the 
figure of a search. He, " in the infancy of philosophy," is 
quite as well aware as his censors can be in the senility of 
criticism that he is not proving anything by this method, but 
merely setting forth what he has assumed for other reasons. 



ert rjv rj ro VTToXei^dev. 'Opdcos, ^4'V> ^^yet?- 
OvKovv Kol rrepl tovtcov, eVeiS?) rerrapa ovra 
Tvyxavei, (haavrcos ^rjTTjreov; A-fjAa Srj. Kat jxev 

K St) TTpcoTov yi /xot So/cet ev avrGi KaTaSiqXov elvai 
rj aocj)La' /cat Tt droTTov vepl avrrjv ^atVerai. Tt; 
rj S' 6'?. YiO^Tj p.kv TO) ovri So/cet jxoi rj ttoAi? eti^at 
'^i' hiriXdopiev ev^ovXos yap. ov;^t; Nat. Kat jjltjv 
TOVTo ye avTO, rj ev^ovXia, drjXov on eTTiarripLr] ns 
iariv ov yap ttov ap,adia ye dXX eTnarrjiirj ev 
^ovXevovrai. ArjXov. IloAAat Se ye /cat rravTO- 
SaTTal eTTLarrjfiai ev rfj TToXei elaiv. Ylo)^ yap ov; 
^Ap' ovv Std Trjv Tcbv t€kt6v(ov eTnar'jpirjV ao(f>r] 

C /cat ev^ouXos rj ttoXls Trpoaprjrea; OuSa/xcD?, 6^17, 
8ta ye TavrrjV, dXXa reKTOVLKifj. Ovk dpa Sid rrjv 
vrrep rdjv ^vXivojv crKevwv €7TtaT'qp,r]v, ^ovXevofxevr) ,^ 
ojs dv exoi ^eXriara, ao(f>rj KXrjrea ttoXls. Ov 
pbevTOi. Tt he; rrjv inrep ru)v e/c rov xoXkov rj 
Ttra dXXrjv twv roiovrcov; OwS' rjVTLVovv, e<f>rj. 
Ovhe Trjv vrrep rod Kaprrov rrjs yeveaecos e/c rrjs 
^ ^ovXevofiivri codd. : ^ovXevo/jLivriv Heindorf. 

<» ffO(j>ia is wisdom par excellence. Aristotle, Met. i., traces 
the history of the idea from Homer to its identification in 
Aristotle's mind with first philosophy or metaphysics. For 
Plato, the moralist, it is virtue and the fear of the Lord ; for 
his political theory it is the " political or royal art " which 
the dramatic dialogues fail to distinguish from the special 
sciences and arts. Cf. Unity of Plato's Thouqht, p. 17, 
n. 97, Protag. 319 a, Euthyd. 283 e, 291 c, Gorg. 501 a-b, etc. 

In the unreformed Greek state its counterfeit counterpart 
is the art of the politician. 

In the Republic its reality will be found in the selected 
guardians who are to receive the higher education, and who 
alone will apprehend the idea of good, which is not mentioned 
here simply because Plato, not Krohn, is writing the 


left for it to be but the remainder." " Right," he 
said. " And so, since these are four, we must 
conduct the search in the same way." " Clearly." 
" And, moreover, the first thing that I think I clearly 
see therein is the \nsdom,'' and there is something 
odd about that, it appears." " What ? " said he. 
" Wise in very deed I think the city that we have 
described is, for it is well counselled, is it not ? " 
" Yes." "And surely this very thing, good counsel,* 
is a form of wisdom. For it is not by ignorance but 
by knowledge that men counsel well." " ObWously." 
" But there are many and manifold knowledges or 
sciences in the city." " Of course." " Is it then 
owing to the science of her carpenters that a city is 
to be called wise and well advised ? " " By no means 
for that, but rather mistress of the arts of building." 
" Then a city is not to be styled wise because of the 
deliberations '^ of the science of wooden utensils for 
their best production ? " " No, I grant you." " Is 
it, then, because of that of brass implements or any 
other of that kind ? " " None whatsoever," he said. 
" Nor yet because of the science of the production 
of crops from the soil, but the name it takes from that 

* Protagoras, like Isocrates, professed to teach ev^ovkia. 
{Protag. 318 e), which Socrates at once identifies with the 
political art. Plato would accept Protagoras's discrimination 
of this from the special arts {ibid. 318 e ff.), but he does not 
believe that such as Protagoras can teach it. His political art 
is a very diflFerent thing from Protagoras's ev^ovXia and is ap- 
prehended by a very different education from that offered by 
Protagoras. Cf. " Plato's Ijaws and the Unity of Plato's 
Thought," p. 348, n. 5, Euihydem. 291 b-c. Charm. 170 b, 
Protag. 319 a, Gorg. 501 a-b, 503 d, Polit. 289 c, 393 d, 309 c. 

* ^ovXevotxivi) : Heindorf's ^ovXevofi^vrjv is perhaps sup- 
ported by 5 . . . /Joi'Xei'CTai below, but in view of Plato's 
colloquial anacoluthic style is unnecessary. 



yrjg, dAAa yecDpyLK-q. AoKet /zot. Ti 8e; ■^v 8* 
eyco- ecrri rij eTncrr'qix'q ev rfj apri vcf)' rjfjicbv 
OLKLadeLaj] Trapd tlol rcou ttoXltcov, fj ovx virep rcbv 
D €v Tjj TToXei TLi'os ^ovXevexai, dAA' inrep iavT'qs oXrjs, 
ovTiv av rpoTTov avr'q re rrpos avTrjv /cat Trpos Tas 
aXXas TToXeis apiara ofjuXol; "Ecrrt jjiivroi. Ti?, 
€cl)r]v iyo), /cat eV riaiv; KvTr], r^ S' 6'?, 17 <f)vXaKt.K7] 
/cat ev TODTots" Tot? ap-^ovaiv , ovs vvv Srj reXeovs 
<f>vXaKas (vvofxaS^opiev. Atd TavTT]v ovv rrjv evrt- 
arrjfji'qv ri Trjv ttoXlu Trpoaayopeveis ; EyjSouAov, 
e^Ty, /cat to) wrt ao(f)t]v. Horepov ovv, rjv 8' eyco, 
E ei' TTJ TToXet o'Ui 'qplv ;^aA/ceas' irXeiovs iveaeadai 
7] Tovs (xXtjOluovs (f)vXaKas tovtovs; IIoAv, etprj, 
XoXKeas. OvKovv, €(f)rjv, /cat rcbv dXXcov, oaoi 
eTTLGT-qixas e^ovTes 6voiidl,ovrai tlv€s elvai, TrdvTiDV 
rovrojv ovroi dv elev oXlyiOTOi; YloXv ye. To) 
afXiKpordrcp dpa eOvei /cat fiepei iavrrjg /cat tt] ev 
TovTcp emaTTJfxr), raJ TrpoearcuTi /cat dpxovri, oXrj 
ao(j>r] dv eirj /caret <f)vuLV olKiadelaa ttoXls' /cat 
429 Tovro, d)s eoLKe, <f>va€i oXiyLarov yiyverai yevog, (h 
TTpotyrjKeL ravrrjg rrjs eTnur-qixrjs jJieraXayxdveLV, 
r]v pLovrjv 8et tcjv dXXcJv iTnarrjficov ao(f>Lav 
KaXeladat. 'AXrjdearaTa, €(f)rj, Ae'yeis'. Tovro fxev 
Srj ev Tcov rerrdpcov ovk otSa ovTiva rpoTTOv 
evpiJKafxev avro re /cat ottov rrjs iroXeois tSpvrai. 
'E/xot yovv 80/cet, e(f)r], aTTOXP^vraJS evprjadaL. 
VII. 'AAAct fJLTjv dvhpeia ye avT-q re Kal ev J) 
1 SvTip' Sf Ast's conjecture : ovTiva codd. 

» Cf. on 416 c. 

^ Cf. Protag. 31 1 e ri 6vo/j,a fiXXo ye Xeyofj^evov irtpl Upuir- 



is agricultural." " I think so." " Then," said I, 
" is there any science in the city just founded by us 
residing in any of its citizens which does not take 
counsel about some particular thing in the city but 
about the city as a whole and the betterment of its 
relations with itself" and other states ? " " Why, 
yes, there is." " What is it," said I, " and in whom 
is it found ? " " It is the science of guardianship 
or government and it is to be found in those rulers to 
whom we just now gave the name of guardians in the 
full sense of the word." " And what tenn then do 
you apply to the city because of this knowledge ? " 
" Well advised," he said, " and truly ^^ise." " Which 
class, then," said I, " do you suppose will be the more 
numerous in our city, the smiths or these true 
guardians ? " " The smiths, by far," he said. "And 
would not these rulers be the smallest of all the groups 
of those who possess special knowledge and receive 
distinctive appellations *? " "By far." "Then it is by 
virtue of its smallest class and minutest part of itself, 
and the ii^isdom that resides therein, in the part which 
takes the lead and rules, that a city established on 
principles of nature would be wise as a whole. And 
as it appears these are by nature the fewest, the class 
to which it pertains to partake of the knowledge 
which alone of all forms of knowledge deserves the 
name of wisdom." " Most true," he said. " This 
one of our four, then, we have, I know not how, dis- 
covered, the thing itself and its place in the state." 
" I certainly think," said he, " that it has been dis- 
covered sufficiently." 

VII. " But again there is no difficulty in seeing 

ay6pov aKovofiev ; warep xepl ^eiSiov dya\fULTOT0ibt> Kal -repl 

O/JirjpOV lrOL7)TT]V. 



/^eirat rrjg TToAecu?, 8t' o roLavrrj KXrjrea rj ttoAis", 

ov TTOLVV ;^aAe7r6p' iSetv. 11 cD? 8^; Tt? az/, •i^v S' 

B eyo), els dXXo ri CLTTo^Xeijias "q BeiXrjv ■^ dvSpeiav 

TToXlV eiTTOl, oAA' T] cls TOVTO TO fldpOS, O TTpOTToXejJLel 

T€ Kai arpareverai VTrkp avrrjs; OuS' dv els, e^^, 
eij ctAAo TL. Ov yap, elrrov, ol ye ctAAoi iv 
avTTJ 7) oecXoi ?} dvSpeXoi, ovres Kvpioi dv etev r) 
TOiav avTTjv etvai •^ roLav. Ov ydp. Kat dvBpela 
dpa ttoXls jue'pei rivl eavrfjs ecTTt, hid ro iv eKeivcp 
^X^''^ ^vvaficv TOiavTTjv, ■^ Std Travros' crcoaei rrjv 

C Trept tcDp* Seivdjv So^av, ravrd re avrd elvai /cat 
TOLavTa, a re /cat oia o vojjLoOerrjs TTaprjyyeiXev iv 
rfj TratSeta. ■^ oi5 tovto dvhpelav KaXets; Ov 
Trdvv, €cf)r], efiaOov o eiTres, aAA' avOis etTre. Hcott]- 
piav eycoy , elirov, Xeycj rivd elvai rrjv dvSpeiav. 
riotW 817 ao)T7]piav; T'r]v rrjs So^tj? ttjs vtto 
vo/JLOv 8ta TTJs 77at8eta? yeyovviag Trepl rdjv Seivcbv, 
d T€ CCTTt /cat Ota. 8td Txav-TO? 8e e'Aeyoi' avTrjv^ 
acorqpiav to eV t€ AuTrat? wra 8tao-aj^ecr^ai 

D avTTjv^ /cat er •)J8ovars /cat ev eTTidvixiais /cat ev 
(f>6^oi,s /cat ju.17 e/c^dAAeir. a) 8e /xoi 80/cet ofxoiov 

^ avTTjv codd. : Adam unnecessarily ai/T-^s. 

" Toiai^Tj = such, that is, brave. The courage of a state, 
qua such, also resides in a small class, the warriors. 

* dvdpewi 6vTes : the ab urbe condita construction. Cf. supra 
421 A. 

" Tolav . . . fi rolav: cf. 437 e, Phaedr. 271 d. Laws 721 b. 



bravery itself and the part of the city in which it 
resides for which the city is called brave." " " How 
so ? " " Who," said I, " in calling a city cowardly 
or brave would fix his eyes on any other part of it 
than that which defends it and wages war in its 
behalf?" "No one at all," he said. "For the 
reason, I take it," said I, " that the cowardice or the 
bravery * of the other inhabitants does not determine 
for it the one quality or the other.'' " " It does not," 
" Bravery too, then, belongs to a city by virtue of a 
part of itself owing to its possession in that part of a 
quahty that under all conditions will preserve the 
conviction that things to be feared are precisely those 
which and such as the lawgiver <* inculcated in their 
education. Is not that what you call bravery ? " 
" I don't altogether understand* what you said," he 
replied; "but say it again." "A kind of conservation," 
I said, " is what I mean by bravery." " What sort 
of a conservation / ? " " The conservation of the con- 
viction which the law has created by education about 
fearful things — what and what sort of things are to 
be feared. And by the phrase ' under all conditions' ' I 
mean that the brave man preserves it both in pain 
and pleasures and in desires and fears and does not 
expel '' it from his soul. And I may illustrate it by a 

" Cf. 442 c, Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1129 b 19 a-poordTrei 8' o 
i'6/ios (cai TO, Tov avopeiov ipya iroLeiv, 

* Cf. supra on 347 a. 

' ffwnjpiai' is the genus; Phileb. 34 a, Def. Plat. 412 a-b. 
Hence woiav as often in the minor dialogues sometimes 
with a play on its idiomatic, contemptuous meaning. Cf. 
Laches 194 d. 

» In the Laches 191 d-e, and the Laws 633 d also, Plato 
generalizes courage to include resistance to the lure of 

* Cf. supra 412 e. 

VOL. I 2 A 353 


etvai, ideXco d7ret/<racrat, et ^ovXei. 'AAAct ^ov- 
Xofxai. OvKovv otada, rjv S' eycu, otl ol jSa^Set?, 
eTretSai^ ^ovX-qOcbai, ^dipai epia coctt' elvai dXovpyd, 
TTpoJTOv iikv e/cAeyoj^rat e/c roaovTCxiv xpojixaTOJv 
fxlav (jivaiv rrjv roJv XevKcov, erreira npoTrapa- 
aKevdt,ovaiv ovk oXiyrj TrapaaKevfj depaTrevaav- 
T€s, OTTCOs Several o rt /xaAiara ro dvdos, /cat 
E ovTO) 8rj ^aTTTOvai' /cat o /xei' ai^ tovto) tco rponco 
^ci(l)fj, SevaoTToiov yiyverai ro ^a(f>ev, /cat 'q ttXvgls 
ovr dvev pv^xpidTCOv ovre [xerd pufifidTCov Swarat 
avTCJV TO dvdos d(f)aipelu6af d S' ai^ fx-q, otaOa ola 
Srj yiyverai, idv re rt? aAAa ;^/3a;/x,aTa ^dTrrrj 
idv re /cat ravra [xt] TTpodepaTrevaas. OtSa, e(j>t), 
on. eKTrXvra /cat yeAota. Toiovrov roivvv, rjv S' 
iyo), VTToXa^e Kard Svva/xiv epydt^eadai /cat rjfids, 
ore e^eXeyofxeOa rovs arrparicoras /cat €7Tai8evop,ev 
430 fiovacKfj /cat yvfivaaTiKT]' fi-qSev o'lov dXXo p-rj^a- 
vdcrdai, "q ottcos rjfJilv 6 ri KdXXtara rovs v6p.ovs 
TTeiadevres Se^otvro coarrep ^a(f>riv, Iva hevaoTTOids 
avrojv rj So^a yiyvoiro /cat Trepl heivdiv /cat irepl 
rdjv dXXo)v, Sta to r'qv re (f)vaLV /cat tt^i^ rpocfyrjv 
eTTirriheiav eap^rj/ceVat, /cat p,r^ avrdJv eKTrAvvat rrjv 

" The moral training of the guardians is likened to the 
dyeing of selected white wools with fast colours. Cf. Aristot 
Etit. Nic. 1 105 a 2, Marc. Aurel. iii. 4. 3 diKaioavvri ^e^a/jL/xevov 
fis (iddos. Sir Thomas Browne, Christian Morals, i. 9 " Be 
what thou virtuously art, and let not the ocean wash away thy 
tincture." The idea that the underlying substance must be 
of neutral quality may have been suggested to Plato by 
Anaxagoras. It occurs in the Tiinaeus 50 d-e, whence it 
passed to Aristotle's psychology and Lucretius. Cf. my 
paper on " Plato, Epicurus and Lucretius," Harvard Studies, 
vol. xii. p. 204. 



similitude^if you please." " I do." " You are aware 
that dyers when they wish to dye wool so as to hold 
the purple hue begin by selecting from the many 
colours there be the one nature of the white and then 
give it a careful preparatory treatment so that it will 
take the hue in the best way, and after the treat- 
ment,'' then and then only, dip it in the dye. And 
things that are dyed by this process become fast- 
coloured'' and washing either with or without lyes 
cannot take away the sheen of their hues. But 
otlierwise you know what happens to them, whether •* 
anyone dips other colours or even these without the 
preparatory treatment." " I know," he said, " that 
they present a ridiculous and washed-out appearance. 
" By this analogy, then," said I, " you must conceive 
what we too to the best of our ability were doing 
when we selected our soldiers and educated them in 
music* and exercises of the body. The sole aim of our 
contrivance was that they should be convinced and re- 
ceive our laws hke a dye as it were, so that their belief 
andfaithmight bedfast-coloured bothabout the things 
that are to be feared and all other things because 
of the fitness of their nature and nurture, and that so 
their dyes might not be washed out by those lyes 

' For the technique c/. BlUmner, Technologie, vol. i. pp. 
227 S. The depd-n-tvan seems to be virtually identical with 
the irpoTrapa<rK€V7i, SO that the aorist seems inappropriate, 
unless with Adam's earlier edition we transpose it immedi- 
ately before oitw 5^. 

' For Sevffoirotds cf. L. & S., and Nauck, 'ASeffirora 441 
rois devcroTToiots 0apyudKois ^avdi^erai. 

■* The two points of precaution are ( 1 ) to select white wool, 
not &\\a xpw/iara, (2) to prepare by treatment even this. 

• C/. 522 A, Phileb. 17 b. 

' yiyvoiro is process ; (KTrXvvai (aorist) is a single event (mi?). 



^a(f>rjv TO. pvufiara ravra, Seit'o, ovra eKKXvt^eiv, 
Tj T€ 'qSovq, TTavTos y^aXeaTpaiov heivorepa ovaa 

B TOVTO Spav Kal Kovias, Xvirr] re /cat <^6^09 koX 
€TndvpiLa, Tiavros aXKov pvp^jxarog. ttjv St] roiav- 
T7JV hvvapLLV Kal aoirripiav 8ia iravro? ho^7]s opdrjs 
T€ Kal vopiipLOV heivcbv irepi Kal firj dvSpelav eytoye 
KaXoj Kal Tt'^e/xat, et /ii^ ri av dXXo Xeyeis. 'AAA' 
ovSev, ■^ 8' OS, Xeyoj. So/cet? yap (mol ttjv opOrjv 
So^au TT€pl rGiv avrGiv tovtcov dvev TraiSeias 
yeyovvZav , rqv re Qrjpicjhr] /cai dvhpa7Tohd)hri , ovre 
TTavv v6pip.ov^ rjyeZadat, dXXo re Ti t) avSpelav 

C KaXelv. 'AXrjd^aTara, rjv S' eyco, Xeyeis. 'Atto- roivvv tovto dvSpeiav eti^ai. Kat yap 
aTToSexov, ■^v 8' iyco, TroXiTLK-qv ye, Kal 6pda>s 
aTToSe^ei' avdis Se Trept avrov, edv ^ovXj), en 
KaXXiov Su[X€v. vvv yap ov tovto i^rjTovjxev , dXXd 
SLKaLOcrvvTjv TTpos ovv TrjV cKeivov ^"qT-qoLV, a»s 
iycpfxai, iKavdJs ^X^*" 'AAAa KaXcjg, ecjur], Xeyeis. 

D VIII. Auo l-'-'^v, riv S' eyoi, ert AoiTra, a Set 
KaTiZelv ev ttj TrdAet, 17 re actxjypoavvq Kal ov Srj 
^ vo/xifiov codd. ; fibvLnov Stob. Flor. xliii. 97. 

" buva: it is not fanciful to feel the unity of Plato's im- 
agination as well as of his thought in the recurrence of this 
word in the 5eiva Kal dvayKoia. . . . iradrj/xaTa of the mortal 
soul in Tim. 69 c. 

* C/. Protag. 360 c-d. Laws 632 c. Aristot. Eth. Nic. 
1116 b 24. Strictly speaking, Plato would recognize four 
grades, (1) philosophic bravery, (2) the bravery of the 
(iriKovpoi here defined, (3) casual civic bravery in ordinary 
states, (4) animal instinct, which hardly deserves the name. 
Cf. Laches 196 e. Mill, Nature, p. 47 "Consistent courage 
is always the effect of cultivation," etc.. Unity of Plato's 
Thought, nn. 46 and 77. 

' Pluiedo 69 B. 

"* vofjLi/jLov of the Mss. yields quite as good a meaning as 


that have such dread" p>ower to scour our faiths away, 
pleasure more potent than any detergent or abstergent 
to accomplish this, and pain and fear and desire more 
sure than any lye. This power in the soul, then, this 
unfaihng conservation of right and lawful behef* about 
things to be and not to be feared is what I call and 
would assume to be courage , unless you have something 
different to say." "No, nothing," said he; "for I pre- 
sume that you consider mere right opinion about the 
same matters not produced by education, that which 
may manifest itself in a beast or a slave,*^ to have little 
or nothing to do with law "* and that you would call it by 
another name than courage." " That is most true," 
said I. " Well then," he said, "I accept this as bravery." 
" Do so," said I, " and you will be right with the 
reservation ' that it is the courage of a citizen. Some 
other time.' if it please you, we will discuss it more 
fully. At present we were not seeking this but justice ; 
and for the purpose of that inquiry I beheve we have 
done enough." " You are quite right," he said. 

VIII. " Two things still remain," said I, " to make 
out in our city, soberness ' and the object of the whole 

Stobaeus's ix6vifjLov. The virtuous habit that is inculcated 
by law is more abiding than accidental virtue. 

* 7e marks a reservation as 415 e uTpaTiurriKdi y(,Polit. 309 e, 
Lcncs 710a TTjv 8T},uivdr]yf. Plotinus, unlike some modern com- 
mentators, perceived this. C/. Enn. i. 2. 3. In Phaedo 82 a 
Tro\tTi<ci7«' is used disparaginglvof ordinarvbourgeoisvirtue. In 
Xen. R^p. Lac. 10. 7 and Aristot. Etk. Nic. iii. 8. 1 (1116 a 17) 
there is no disparagement. The word is often used of citizen 
soldiery as opposed to professional mercenaries. 

' This dismissal of the subject is sometimes fancifully 
taken as a promise of the Laches. Cf. Unity of Plato's 
Thought, nn. 77 and 603. 

» Slatthew Arnold's word. Bute/, on 389 d and 430 e — 
"sobriety," "temperance," " Besonnenheit." 



evGKa TTOLVTa t,rjTov[ji€v SLKatoavvrj. Ilai'i' fiev ovv. 
Hcos ovv dv rr)u 8iKaioavi'r]v evpoLfiev, Iva ^rjKeri 
TTpayixarevcoixeda rrepl aco(l>poavvris ; 'Eyco puev 
roLvvv, €(f)rj, ovre olSa ovr dv ^ovXoLfjLrjv avro 
TTporepov (^avrjvai, etVep /XTj/ceri eTnarKeipoixeda 
aaxjypoavvrjv aAA' et e^otye jSoyAet )(apit,€adaL, 
OKOTTet nporepov tovto iKeivov. 'AAAa jxevToi, r)v 
E S' eyd), PovXojxaL ye, el firj dSt/ccD. Z/coTret S-q, 
€^17. XKCTTTeov, elnov Kal cos" ye ivrevdev ISelv, 
^vp,cf)covta TLvl Kal dpfxovia rrpoaeoiKe p,dXXov 7) ra 
TTporepov. Ylihs; KdajMO? ttov tis, rjv S' e'yco, rj 
aaxjipoGvvrj earl Kal tjSovcjv tlvcov /cat eTndvjjitdJv 
eyKpdreia, cos cf)aai, Kpelrrco St) avrov Xeyovres 
ovK ofS' ovnva rpoTTOV, Kal dXXa drra roiavra 
oiOTTep l^vf] avrfjs t^aiverai' rj yap; Havrcov 
p-aXiara, €(f)rj. Ovkovv to fxev Kpeirro) avrov 
yeXolov; 6 yap eavrov Kpeirrcxyv Kal rjrrcov S-qirov 
**Ji av avrov evrj /cai o rjrrcov Kpeirrojv o avros yap 
ev dvacn, rovrois TTpoaayopeverai. TiS'ov; 'AAA', 
■^v S' eyo), (j)aiverai poi ^ovXeadat Xeyeiv ovros o 
Xoyos, COS" Ti ev avrcp rch dvdpcoTTO) irepl rrjv ^vx'^v 
ro fxev ^eXriov evt, ro 8e -x^elpov, Kal orav p,ev 
ro ^eXnov ^vaet rod ■)(eLpovos eyKpares fj, rovro 
Xeyeiv ro Kpeirroi avrov' erraLvel yovv orav 8e vtto 

" ft fiT] ddiKw is idiomatic, " I ought to." Cf. 608 d, 
612, Menex. 236 b. 

* Cf. Gorg. 506 e ff. crcx>(f>po(Tvvr] and crw^povflv sometimes 
mean etymologically of sound mind or level head, with or 
without ethical suggestion, according to the standpoint of 
the speaker. Cf. Protag. 333 b-c. Its two chief meanings 
in Greek usage are given in 389 d-e : subordination to due 
authority, and control of appetite, both raised to higher 



inquiry, justice." " Quite so." " If there were 
only some way to discover justice so that we need 
not further concern ourselves about soberness." 
*' Well, I, for my part," he said, " neither know of 
any such way nor would I wish justice to be dis- 
covered first if that means that we are not to go on 
to the consideration of soberness. But if you desire 
to please me, consider this before that." " It would 
certainly be very WTong " of me not to desire it," said 
I. " Go on with the inquiry then," he said. " I 
must go on," I replied, " and \-iewed from here it 
bears more likeness to a kind of concord and harmony 
than the other \irtues did." " How so ? " " Sober- 
ness is a kind of beautiful order * and a continence of 
certain pleasures and appetites, as they say, using 
the phrase ' master of himself ' I know not how ; 
and there are other similar expressions that as it 
were point us to the same trail. Is that not so ? " 
" Most certainly." " Now the phrase ' master of 
himself is an absurdity, is it not ? For he who is 
master of himself would also be subject to himself, 
and he who is subject to himself would be master. 
For the same person is spoken of in all these expres- 
sions." " Of course." " But," said I," the intended 
meaning of this way of speaking appears to me to be 
that the soul of a man within him has a better part 
and a worse part, and the expression self-mastery 
means the control of the worse by the naturally 
better part. It is, at any rate, a term of praise. But 

significance in Plato's definition. As in the case of bravery, 
Plato distinguishes the temperamental, the bourgeois, the 
disciplined and the philosophical virtue. But he affects to 
feel something paradoxical in the very idea of self-control, 
as perhaps there is. Cf. Laws 62Q e ff., 863 d, A.J.P. vol. 
xiiL pp. 361 f.. Unity of Plato's Thought, no. 77 and 78. 



rpocjirjs KaKTJs rj tlvos ofiiXias KparrjOfj vtto ttAt^- 
6ovs rov x^ipovos apuKpoT^pov to ^eXrtov 6v, tovto 

B Se ws eV oveiSei ipeyetv re /cat KaXeiv tJttcd iavrov 
Koi oLKoXaarov tov ovtoj htaKei/jLevov. Kat yap 
eoiK€i>, ^(f>rj. 'ATTO^AeTre roivvv, rjv 8' iyco, irpos 
TTjv viav rjfjuv ttoXiv, koI evprjoets ev avrij to 
erepov rovrcov ivov KpeirTO) yap avrrjp avrrj'; 
BtKalcDS ^iqaeis TrpoaayopeveaOai etirep ov to 
afxetvov rov x^ipovo^ ^PX^'' croi^pov kXt^tcov Kai 
Kpelrrov avrov. 'AAA' aTro^XeTTCO , €(f)7], Kal dXrjdrj 
AeyeiS". Kai pL-qv Kal rds ye TroAAds' Kal iravro- 

C SaTrd? eTndvpiias Kal rjSovds re Kal XvTras €V Traial 
fxaXtara dv ns evpoi Kal yvvat^l Kal OLKerais Kal 
Tcjv iXevOepcov Xeyofieviov iv rols TroXXoXs re Kal 
(f)avXoLs. Ildvv piey ovv. Td? 8e ye dTzAaj re Kal 
fierpias, at Brj p-erd vov re Kal Bo^rjs dpdrjs Xoyi- 
ap-tp dyovrai, ev dXlyois re eTTirev^ei Kal rols 
^eXricrra p,ev <f>vai, ^eXricrra Se TTaiSevdeZaiv. 
AXrjdrj, ecfj'T]. Ovkovv Kal ravra opas evovra aoi ev 
rfj TToXei, Kal Kparovp,evas avrodt ras emdvpLas 

D rds ev rols ttoXXoIs re Kal <f>avXois vtto re rcbv 
emOvpiicov Kal rrjs (f>povr^aeo}s rrjs ev rols eXdrroat, 
re Kal eTneiKearepots ; "Eycay', e(f)rj. 

IX. Et dpa Sel rivd ttoXlv rrpoaayopeveLv Kpeirrco 
"qSovaJv re Kal eTndvp.ia)v Kal avrrjv avrijs, Kal rav- 

» Cf. Phaedr. 250 a. 

* Cf. 442 A, Laws 689 a-b. The expression is intended to 
remind us of the parallelism between man and state. See 
Introd. p. XXXV. * Cf. Symp. 189 e. 

"» Cf. 441 D, 443 B, 573 d. 

' iravTodaTrds is disparaging in Plato. Cf. 557 c. 

' iraKTl : so Wolf, for ms. Tracrt, a frequent error. Cf. 494 b. 


when, because of bad breeding or some association," 
the better part, which is the smaller, is dominated 
by the multitude * of the worse, I think that our speech 
censures this as a reproach,*^ and calls the man in 
this plight unselfcontrolled and licentious." " That 
seems hkely," he said. " Turn your eyes now upon 
our new city," said I, " and you will find one of these 
conditions existent in it. For you will say that it is 
justly spoken of as master of itself if that in which "* 
the superior rules the inferior is to be called sober 
and self-mastered." " I do turn my eyes upon it," he 
said, " and it is as you say." " And again, the mob of 
motley * appetites and pleasures and pains one would 
find chiefly in children ^ and women and slaves and in 
the base rabble of those who are freemen in name.^ " 
" By all means." " But the simple and moderate 
appetites which with the aid of reason and right 
opinion are guided by consideration you will find in 
few and those the best bom and best educated." 
" True," he said. " And do you not find this too in 
your city and a domination there of the desires in the 
multitude and the rabble by the desires and the 
wisdom that dwell in the minority of the better 
sort ? " "I do," he said, 

IX. " If, then, there is any city that deserves to be 
described as master of its pleasures and desires and 
self-mastered, this one merits that designation." 

Plato, like Shakespeare's Rosalind, brackets boys and women 
as creatures who have for every passion something and for 
no passion truly anj'thing. 

" Cf. on 336 A. The ordinary man who is passion's slave 
is not truly free. The Stoics and Cynics preached many 
sermons on this text. See Persius, Sat. v. 73 and 124, 
Epictet. Diss. iv. 1, Xen. Mem. iv. 5. 4, Xen. Oecon. 1. 



rrjv 7rpoapr)T€ov. UavTarraat, fxev ovv, €<f)7}. *Ap 
ovv ov /cat aco(f>pova /caret iravra ravra; Kat jxaXa, 
^^Tj. Kat jLtT^v eiTrep ay iv dXXr) TToAei ij aun^ Sdl'a 
E kveari rols re ap^ovai /cat apxofievoLS irepi roO 
ovarivas Set apx^i'V, /cat ev' ravrr) av etr) rovro 
ivov •^ oi) §o/cet; Kat fidXa, e(f)r), a^ohpa. 'Et* 
TTorepoLs ovv ^-qaeLs tcov ttoXltcov to aoj^povelv 
ei'eti/at, oVav ovtcos €X(j^olv, iv rots dpxpvoLV 7] ev 
ToZs dpxppiivois ; 'Ei' d[Ji,(f)OTepoLS ttov, €(f)7]. 'Opa? 
ovv, '^v 8' iyo), OTi, imetKcos epiavrevopLeda aprt, 
(hs dppbovia Tivl T) aojcfipoavvrj (hpoLciirai; Tt or]; 
"On ovx (ZcTTTep r) avSpela /cat rj ao(f>La ev pepei 
432 Tivl eKarepa ivovaa t) pev ao^rjv, rj Se dvBpei,av Tqv 
ttoXlv TTapeix^TOy ovx ovno Trotet avrrj, aAAa ot 
OATHS' drexvcos rerarai, Sta TraadJv TrapexopevT] 
^vvaSovras rovs re dadevea-rdrovg ravrov /cat 
Tovs laxvpoTdrovs /cat rovs p,eaovs, eL pev povXei, 
<f>povT^aeL, el Se ^ovXei, laxvC, el Be, /cat TrArj^et r/ 
XP'TiP'OLOLV rj a'AAo) otcoovv rd>v roLovrcov ojcrre 

" Plato is again proceeding by seemingly minute verbal 
links. Cf. supra 354 a, 379 b, 412 d. /cat /iriv introduces 
a further verification of the definition. 

'' TTOV marks the slight hesitation at the deviation from the 
symmetry of the scheme which would lead us to expect, as 
Aristotle and others have taken it, that (TU}<f>poaiJvri is the 
distinctive virtue of the lowest class. It is so practically for 
the lower sense of a-ioippoavvr], but in the higher sense of the 
willingness of each to fulfil his function in due subordination 
to the whole, it is common to all classes. 

« Cf. 430 E. Aristotle gives this as an example of 
(faulty) definition by metaphor {Topics iv. 3. 5). 



" Most assuredly," he said. " And is it not also to 
be called sober *" in all these respects ? " " Indeed it 
is," he said. " And yet again, if there is any city 
in which the rulers and the ruled are of one mind 
as to who ought to rule, that condition will be found 
in this. Don't you think so ? " "I most emphatic- 
ally do," he said. " In which class of the citizens, 
then, will you say that the \irtue of soberness has 
its seat when this is their condition ? In the rulers 
or in the ruled? " " In both, I suppose,* " he said. 
" Do you see then," said I, " that our intuition was 
not a bad one just now that discerned a likeness 
between soberness and a kind of harmony "^ ? " " Why 
so ? " " Because its operation is unhke that of 
courage and wisdom, which residing in separate 
parts respectively made the city, the one wise and 
the other brave. That is not the way of soberness, 
but it extends literally through the entire gamut ** 
throughout, bringing about « the unison in the same 
chant of the strongest, the weakest and the inter- 
mediate, whether in wisdom or, if you please,^ in 
strength, or for that matter in numbers, wealth, or any 
similar criterion. So that we should be quite right 

"* 01 0X17? : sc. rrjs iroXfojs, but as drex>''i's shows (c/. supra on 
419 z) it already suggests the musical metaphor of the entire 
octave Sia ir-a.auiv. 

' The word order of the following is noteworthy. The 
translation gives the meaning, ravrov, the object of aw- 
a5ovTai, is, by a trait of style that grows more frequent in 
the Laws and was imitated by Cicero, so placed as to break 
the monotony of the accusative terminations. 

^ For the comparison the kind of superiority is indifferent. 
See Thompson on Meno 7 1 e and compare the enumeration of 
claims to power in the Laics, a^nIifuxTa . . . toO apxdv. Laws 
690 A flF. and in/ra 434 b. 



opdorar* av (f)al[ji€V ravrriv rrjv ofJLOvoiav aco^po- 
avvTjv etvai, ;)^etpoi/os' re /cat dixeivovos Kara ^ucriv 

B ^vfji(f)0)VLav, OTTorepov Set dpx^i'V Kal iv rroXei /cat 
iv ivl eKaaroi. XVavv [xoc, €(f)r), ^wSo/cet. Etev, 
"^v S' iyo)' rd fiev rpia y^pXv iv rfj ttoXcl /carcoTrTai, 
o)s y€ ovTOJGL oogai- to oe orj Aoittov eloog, oi o 
dv eVi dperrjs p^erexoi ttoXls, rt ttot' av etrj; 8rjXov 
ydp, on TOVTO ioTiv rj St/catoawT]. ArjXov. Ou/c- 
ovv, (L TXavKcov, vvv hrj i^/xa? Set coOTrep KVV7]yiTas 
TLvds ddfjivov kvkXu) TTepuGTaadai 7Tpoa€)(ovras rdv 
vovv, p,i] TTTj Sta^uyry rj hiKaiocrvvrj /cat d<f)avi- 

C cr^etcra aSTjAos" yevrjTai' (j)avep6v ydp hrj otl ravrrf 
TTj] eariv Spa ovv /cat Trpodvixov /cartSetv, idv ttcos 
rrpoTCpos epiov iSt^? /cat e/xot (f)pd(jr)g. Et yap 
w<f>eXov, e^T)' dXXd [xaXXov, idv jjlol eTTopiiva) xpfj 
/cat TO. Sei/cvu/Ltej/a Svvafievo) Kadopav, Trdw pioi 

fji€TpLC05 p^pTJCTet. "EtTOU, T^V 8' Cyca, €V^dp.€VOS p,€T* 

ipiov. Uoirjaoj raura, dAAa p,6vov, rj 8' o?, rjyov. 
Kat jMTjv, etTTov e'yoa, dva^aTos ye rts 6 tottos 

" The final statement of the definition, which, however, 
has little significance for Plato's thought, when isolated from 
its explanatory context. Cf. Def. Plat. 413 e. Unity of 
Plato's Thought, pp. 15 f., n. 82. Quite idle is the discussion 
whether crcj<ppo<rOv7] is otiose, and whether it can be absolutely 
distinguished from dLKaioa-vvrj. They are sufficiently dis- 
tinguished for Plato's purpose in the imagery and analogies 
of the Republic. * Cf. on 351 e. 

" Cf. Dem. XX. 18 and 430 e ws ye ivrevdev iSetv. Plato's 
definitions and analyses are never presented as final. They 
are always sufficient for the purpose in hand. Cf. Unity of 
Plato's Thought, p. 13, nn. 63-67 and 519. 

'' 5l 6' : cf. my paper on the Origin of the Syllogism, CTtws. 
Phil. vol. xix. pp. 7 IF. This is an example of the terminology 
of the theory of ideas " already " in the first four books. 
Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 35, n. 238, p. 38. 



in affirming this unanimity " to be soberness, the con- 
cord of the naturally superior and inferior as to which 
ought to rule both in the state and the indi\idual.'' " 
" I entirely concur," he said. " Very well," said 
I ; " we have made out these three forms in our 
city to the best of our present judgement.'^ What 
can be the remaining form that ** would give the city 
still another virtue ? For it is obvious that the 
remainder is justice." " Obvious." " Now then,* 
Glaucon, is the time for us like huntsmen ^ to surround 
the covert and keep close watch that justice may not 
slip through and get away from us and vanish from 
our sight. It plainly must be somewhere hereabouts. 
Keep your eyes open then and do your best to descry 
it. You may see it before I do and point it out 
to me." " Would that I could," he said ; " but I 
think rather that if you find in me one who can 
follow you and discern what you point out to him 
you will be making a very fair ^ use of me." " Pray '* 
for success then," said I, " and follow along with 
me." " That I will do, only lead on," he said. 
" And truly," said I, " it appears to be an inaccessible 

* vvv 5tj : i.e. vvv ijST]. 

f Cf. Soph. 235 B, Euthydem. 290 b-c, Phaedo 66 c, Laws 
654 E, Parmen. 128 c. Lysis 218 c, Thompson on Meno 96 e, 
Huxley, Hume, p. 139 "There cannot be two passions more 
nearly resembling each other than hunting and philosophy." 
Cf. also Hardy's " He never could beat the covert of con- 
versation without starting the game." The elaboration of 
the image here is partly to mark the importance of SiKaioffvvT] 
and partly to relieve the monotony of continuous argument, 

' It is not necessary, though plausible, to emend /x«rpta>s 
to fierpitf). The latter is slightly more idiomaticai. Cf. 
Terence's "benigno me utetur patre." 

* Prayer is the proper preface of any act. Cf. Tim. 27 c. 
Laws 712 B. 



^aiverai /cat iviaKtos' eWi yovv okotclvos Kai 
D SvaSiepevvTjTos' dXXa yap o[jlojs Iriov. ^Ireov yap, 
e(j)rj. Kal iyo) Karchajv 'loi) lou, etTTOv, to TXavKCOv 
KivBuveuofxeu ri ^X^^^ ''■X^^^> '^^^ /^°^ So/cet ov ttolvv 
TL iK(f)€v^ela6ac rjp,dg. Ei5 dyyeXXeig, -^ 8' o?. 
*H p-'qv, rjv S' iyo), ^XaKiKov ye t^/xcDv to Trddos. 
To TTOLOv; IlaAat, c5 /xaKrapte, ^aiverai irpo 
TTohayv riixlv e^ dpxrjs KuXivSeLadat, Kal ovx icopco- 
p.ev dp' avTo, aAA' rjixeu KarayeXaaroraroL- cjg- 
E TT€p ol iv ralg x^P^'-^ exovres t^rjTovaiv iviore o 
Gxovai, Kal rjiiels els avro puev ovk dTre^XeiropLev, 
TToppo) 8e TTOt direaKOTTOvpiev y fj Br) Kal eXdvdavev 
tacos r^fxas. Yici)s, e^T], Xeyeis; Ovrcos, elTTOv, d)s 
SoKovjxev fxot, Kal Xeyovres avro Kal dKOvovres 
TxdXai ov fxavdavew -qpicbv avrcov, on eXeyofxev 

TpOTTOV TLvd aVTO . }AaKp6v, €(1)7], TO TTpOOipLLOV TO) 

emdvfxovvTi dKovaai . 
433 X. 'AAA', ■^v 8' eyco, aKove, el ri dpa Xeyco. 
o yap e^ dpx^js ediyieda Belv iroLelv Sto. Travros, 
ore TTjv ttoXlv KaTcpKit^opiev, rovro eariv, ojs ifxol 
BoK€i, rjToi rovTov Ti etSos" t] hiKaioavvr]. iddfieda 
Be BrjTTOV Kal TToAAa/ci? eXeyofJLev, el piepLV7]aaL, on 
eva eKaarov ev Beoi eTrirrjSeJeiv tcDv TTepl Tr}v 
TToXtv, els o avTov tJ (f>vai,s eTnr-qBeiordTrj ■ne(j>VKvla 

" TO Trd&os: for the periphrasis cf. 376 a. 

" C/. Theaetet. 201 a. 

" A homely figure such as Dante and Tennyson sometimes 

<* This sounds like Hegel but is not Hegelian thought. 

' Cf. on 344 E. Justice is a species falling under the 
vague genus to iavTov wpaTTeiv, which Critias in the Char- 
midC'S proposed as a definition of (ruKppoavvr) {Charm. 161 b), 



place, lying in deep shadows." " It certainly is a 
dark covert, not easy to beat up." " But all the 
same on we must go." " Yes, on." And I caught 
view and gave a huUoa and said, " Glaucon, I think 
we have found its trail and I don't beheve it will get 
awav from us." " I am glad to hear that," said he. 
" Truly," said I, " we were slackers" indeed." " How 
so ? " " Why, all the time, bless your heart, the 
thing apparently was tumbUng about our feet* from 
the start and yet we couldn't see it, but were most 
ludicrous, like people who sometimes hunt for what 
they hold in their hands.'' So we did not turn our 
eyes upon it, but looked off into the distance, which 
was perhaps the reason it escaped us." " What do 
you mean ? " he said. " This," I replied, " that it 
seems to me that though we were speaking of it 
and hearing about it all the time we did not under- 
stand ourselves ** or realize that we were speaking of 
it in a sense." " That is a tedious prologue," he 
said, " for an eager hstener." 

X. " Listen then," said I, " and learn if there is any- 
thing in what I say. For what we laid down in the 
beginning as a universal requirement when we were 
founding our city, this I think, or « some form of this, 
is justice. And what we did lay down, and often said, 
if you recall, was that each one man must perform 
one social service in the state for which his nature 
was best adapted." " Yes, we said that." " And 

but failed to sustain owing to his inability to distinguish the 
various possible meanings of the phrase. In the Republic 
too we have hitherto failed to "learn from ourselves" its 
true meaning, till now when Socrates begins to perceive that 
if taken in the higher sense of spiritual division of labour in 
the soul and in the state, it is the long-sought justice. Cf. 
infra 433 b-c-d, 443 c-d. 



elrj. 'EAeyo/xev yap. Kai jxrjv on ye to to. avTov 
TTpoiTTeLV Kal ^rj TToXvirpay^ovelv SLKaLoavvq iari, 

B /cat TOVTO dXXojv T€ TToXXcjv OLK-qKoajJiev Kal avrol 
TToXXaKLS elprjKaixev. EtpT^Ka/^tev yap. Tovto tol- 
vvv, r^v 8' eyctj, c5 j)iXe, Kivhvvevei rpoirov riva 
ytyv6pi€vov r) SLKatoavvq elvai, to to. avrov irpdr- 
reiv. olada odev reK/xaipo/Mat; Ovk, aXXd Aey', 
e<f)rj. AoK€L jJiOi, '^v 8* iyco, to vttoXolttov ev ttj 
TToAet (l)v eaKeyLfxeOa, Ga>(f)poovvr]s Kal avSpeta? 
Kal <f)povT^aecos , tovto elvat, o Trdcnv eKewois Trjv 
hvvapLiv rrapeaxev , woTe eyyeveaOai, Kal iyyevojjie- 
vots ye aojTiqpiav irapexetv, ecoairep dv ivfj. KaiTOi 

C e^ajLtev BLKaLoavvrjv eaeadai to VTroXeif^Oev eKetvcov, 
el Ta Tpia evpoifiev. Kat yap dvayKiq, e(f)r]. 
'AAAo. fievTOi, rjv 8' eyd), el 8eot ye Kplvai, tl ttjv 
ttoXlv rj/juv TOVTCOV jLiaAtCTTa dyadrjv a-nepyaaeTai 
eyyev6p,evov, hvoKpiTov dv etrj, iroTepov rj ofioSo^ia 
tG)v dpxovTiov TC Kal dpxop.evcov, rj rj irepl Seivcjv 
Te Kal pLifj, (ZTTa eo-Tt, ho^rj^ ewop-ov acoTrjpia ev 
TOts aTpaTicjjTais eyyevofievr], ^ rj ev toIs dp^ovat 

J) (fipovrjais Te Kal ^uAa/07 evovaa, •^ tovto pidXiaTa 
dyadrjv avTXjv Trotet evov Kal ev 7Tat8t Kal ev 
yvvaiKL Kal ^ovXco Kal eXevdepco Kal SrjiJLLovpya) 
Kal dpxovTL Kal dpxofMevcp, otl to avTov eKauTOS els 
cov enpaTTC Kal ovk eTroXvirpaypiovei. AvoKpiTOV, 
€(f>rj' TTcos 8' ov; 'EivapaXXov dpa, ai? eot/ce, Trpos 

" This need not refer to any specific passage in the 
dialogues. C/. Unity of Plato's Thought, n. 236. A 
Greek could at any time say that minding one's own 
business and not being a busybody is aOicppov or dUaiov or 

" rpoirov TLva yi.yv6ixei>ov: as in the translation, not "justice 



again that to do one's own business and not to be a 
busybody is justice, is a saying that we have heard 
from many and have very often repeated ourselves." " 
" We have." " This, then," I said, " my friend, if 
taken in a certain sense appears to be justice,* this 
principle of doing one's ovm business. Do you know 
whence I infer this ? " "No, but tell me," he said. 
" I think that this is the remaining virtue in the 
state after our consideration of soberness, courage, 
and intelligence, a quahty which made it possible 
for them all to grow up in the body politic and which 
when they have sprung up preserves them as long 
as it is present. And I hardly need to remind you 
that " we said that justice would be the residue after 
we had found the other three." " That is an un- 
avoidable conclusion," he said. " But moreover," 
said I, "if we were required to decide what it is 
whose indwelling presence will contribute most to 
making our city good, it would be a difficult decision 
whether it was the unanimity of rulers and ruled or 
the conservation in the minds of the soldiers of the 
convictions produced by law as to what things are 
or are not to be feared, or the watchful intelligence 
that resides in the guardians, or whether this is the 
chief cause of its goodness, the principle embodied 
in child, woman, slave, free, artisan, ruler, and ruled, 
that each performed his one task as one man and was 
not a versatile busybody." " Hard to decide indeed," 
he said. " A thing, then, that in its contribution to 

seems somehow to be proving to be this." Cf. 432 z, 516 c. 
Lysis 217 E, Lairs 910 b, infra 495 a, 596 d, Goodwin, Moods 
and Tenses, 830. Yet, cf. Polit. 291 d. 

' KOLLToi : cf. on 360 c and 376 b. Here it points out the 
significance of t6 viroXoi-n-ov if true, while d\Xd fievroi. intro- 
duces the considerations that prove it true. 

VOL. I 2 B 369 


aperrjv ttoXccos ttj re aocftla avrijs Kal rfj aa)(j)po- 
avvTj Kai Tjj avSpeta rj tov eKaarov ev avrfj to. 
avTov TTpdrTeiv Svvafiis. Kat p,aX , €(f)r]. Ovk- 
ovv BiKaLoavvqv ro ye tovtols evap^iXkov av els 

E dperr^v ttoXccos dei-qs; YVavraTTaai p,€v ovv. Skto- 
Trei 8t^ kol rfjBe, el ovrco So^ei. dpa TOt? d.p- 
Xovatv ev rfj 77oAei to,? StVa? TTpoard^etg St/ca^eiv; 
Ti pLTJv; ^H dXXov ovTLVoaovv p,dXXov e^iepievoi. 
hiKdaovoLV ri tovtov, ottojs dv eKaaroi ju.7^t' exfoai 
rdXX6rpi,a fx-qre rcot' avrcbv arepcovrai; Ovk, dXXd 
TOVTOV. 'Q.S hiKaiov ovtos ; Nat. Kai TavTrj 
dpa TTT] rj TOV olKeiov re /cat eavTov e^is re /cat 
434 TTpd^Ls hiKatoavvfj dv op-oXoyolTO. "Ecrrt TavTa. 
'ISe 8rj, edv aol oirep ipLol ^vvSoKrj. tcktcov 
OKVTOTopLov eTn-)^eipcx)v epya epydt^eadai rj okvto- 
TOfios TeKTovos, rj ra opyava jieToXajx^dvovTes 
rdXXrjXcjv rj rt/xa?, rj /cat o avrd? eTn\eipS)V djX(f>6- 
Tepa TTpaTTeiv, rrdvTa rdAAa jiCTaXXarTOfieva dpa 
aoL dv Ti 8oK€L jjidya ^Xdifjai, ttoXiv; Ov rrdw, e(f)rj. 
AAA' oTav ye, oljxat, SrjjXLOvpyog cov rj tls dXXos 

B -x^pi-jjxaTLOTrjS ^vaei, erreiTa eTraipofjievog t] ttXovto) 
rj TrXrjdeL rj la)(VL rj dXXo) to) tolovtco et? to tov 
TToXejxiKOV ethos em^^eipfj levai, rj tcov jToXejiLKCov 
TLS els TO TOV ^ovXevTLKOv Kal (f)vXaKos dvd^ios 

" ye argues from the very meaning of evdjj.i\\oi>. Cf. supra 
379 b. 

* So Phaedo 79 e Spa 5t) Kal ryde. It introduces a further 
confirmation. The mere judicial and conventional concep- 
tion of justice can be brought under the formula in a fashion 
{■n-Tj infra), for legal justice " est constans et perpetua voluntas 
ius suum cuique tribuens." Cf. supra 331 e and Aristot. 
Rhet. 1366 b 9 ^(ttl 8^ SiKcuoavvrj jjAv dperr] 8l ■i)y rd aiirwv iKaara. 

^XOU(T£, Kal (is 6 v6piOS, 

* rdWdrpia : the article is normal; Stallb. on Phaedr. 230 a. 


the excellence of a state vies with and rivals its 
■v^isdom, its soberness, its bravery, is this principle 
of everyone in it doing his o>vn task." " It is indeed," 
he said. " And is not justice the name you would 
have to give " to the principle that rivals these as con- 
ducing to the \irtue of state ? " " By all means," 
" Consider it in this wise too '' if so you will be con- 
vinced. Will you not assign the conduct of lawsuits 
in your state to the rulers ? " " Of course." "Will 
not this be the chief aim of their decisions, that no 
one shall have what belongs to others '^ or be deprived 
of his own ? " " Nothing else but this." " On the 
assumption that this is just ? " " Yes." " From 
this point of view too, then, the having "^ and doing 
of one's own and what belongs to oneself would 
admittedly be justice." " That is so." " Consider 
now « whether you agree with me. A carpenter under- 
taking to do the work of a cobbler or a cobbler of a 
carpenter or their interchange of one another's tools 
or honours or even the attempt of the same man 
to do both — the confounding of all other functions 
would not, think you, greatly injure a state, would 
it ? " " Not much," he said. " But when I fancy 
one who is by nature an artisan or some kind of 
money-maker tempted and incited by wealth or 
command of votes or bodily strength or some similar 
advantage tries to enter into the class of the soldiers 
or one of the soldiers into the class of counsellors and 
guardians, for which he is not fitted, and these inter- 

For the ambiguity of TaXXdrpia cf. 443 d. So oUfiov is one's 
own in either the literal or in the ideal sense of the Stoics and 
Emerson, and eaiToiJ is similarly ambiguous. Cf. on 443 d. 

** «^is is still fluid in Plato and has not yet taken the 
technical Aristotelian meaning of habit or state. 

' A further confirmation. For what follows cf. 421 a. 



wv, Kat TO. aXX-qXcov oSrot opyava fxeToXafx^dvcoai 
/cat Tas TLfjids, ^ orav 6 avros vdvra ravra d/xa 
€7n)^€i,pfj TTpdrreiv, totc olfxai /cat aol So/ceiv Tavrrjv 
TTju TovTOiv ixeTa^oXrjv /cat TToXvTrpayfiocrvvqv oXe- 
Opov elvairfj TToXei. YiavTdTraai pikv ovv . 'Yi rpicov 
apa ovTOJV yevcov TToXvirpayixoavvri /cat piera^oXr] els 
C dXXt)Xa pbeyiarT) re ^Xd^n) rij iroXei, /cat opdoraT 
av TTpoaayopevoiTO p.dXiara KaKovpyia. Ko^LttS?^ 
p,ev ovv. KaKovpylav 8e ttjv pLeyiarrjV ttjs eavTOV 
"TToXeois ovK aSt/ctW ^-qaeis elvai; ITcD? 8' ov; 
TovTO fiev dpa aSt/cia. 

XI. YldXiv 8e cSSe Xeycofxev ^^pT^jLtartCTTt/cou, ctti- 
KovpiKov, (f)vXaKLKOv yivovs oi/ceiOTT/jayta, cKdarov 


eKclvov SiKaLoavvTj t' ai' etT^ /cat ttjv ttoXiv SiKaiav 
D TTapexoc. OvK dXXr) efxoiye 8o/cet, -q S' os, ex^tv 
rj ravrrj. MrjSev, '^v 8' iyco, noj Tvdvv Trayt'o;? 
avTo Xiycopuev, dXX idv p.kv -qp^lv /cat els era 
cKaarov TOiv dvdpcjTTCxiv lov to etSo? tovto 6p,o- 

" fidXiffTa with KaKovpyia. 

* irdXiv, " again," here means conversely. Cf. 425 a. 
The definition is repeated in terms of the three citizen classes 
to prepare the way for testing it in relation to the individual 
soul, which, if the analogy is to hold, must possess three 
corresponding faculties or parts. The order of words in this 
and many Platonic sentences is justified by the psychological 
" investigation," which showed that when the question 
" which do you like best, apples, pears, or cherries ? " was 

f)resented in the form " apples, pears, cherries, which do you 
ike best ? " the reaction time was appreciably shortened. 



change their tools and their honours or when the 
same man undertakes all these functions at once, 
then, I take it, you too believe that this kind of sub- 
stitution and meddlesomeness is the ruin of a state." 
"By all means." "The interference with one another's 
business, then, of three existent classes and the sub- 
stitution of the one for the other is the greatest injury 
to a state and would most rightly be designated 
as the thing which chiefly" works it harm." " Pre- 
cisely so." " And the thing that works the greatest 
harm to one's o\s'n state, will you not pronounce 
to be injustice ? " " Of course." " This, then, is 

XI. "Again,^ let us put it in this way. The proper 
functioning " of the money-making class, the helpers 
and the guardians, each doing its own work in the 
state, being the reverse of that '^ just described, would 
be justice and would render the city just." " I 
think the case is thus and no otherwise," said he. 
" Let us not yet affirm it quite fixedly,* " I said, " but 
if this form ' when apphed to the individual man, is 

* oiKeioTTpayia : this coinage is explained by the genitive 
absolute. Proclus (KroU i. p. 207) substitutes avroTrpayia. 
So Def. Plat. 41 1 e. 

* iKEivov : cf. (Keivois, 425 a. 

* irayiws : cf. 479 c, Aristot. Met. 1062 b 15. 

' The doctrine of the transcendental ideas was undoubtedly 
familiar to Plato at this time. Cf. supra on 402 b, and 
Unity of Plato's Thmight, p. 31, n, 194, p. 35. But we 
need not invoke the theorj' of -irapovffia here to account for 
this slight personification of the form, idea, or definition of 
justice. Cf. 538 d, and the use of iXduv in Eurip. Suppl. 
562 and of ioy in Pkileb. 52 e. Plato, in short, is merely 
saying vivaciously what Aristotle technically says in the 
words Set 5^ toOto firj fiMvov KadSXov X^7t(r&ai, dXXa icai toU 
Kad' iKaffra itpap/ioTTdi', Eth. Nic. 1107 a 28, 



XoyrJTai, /cat e/cei SiKaioavvr] etvai, ^vy)(0)pri(y6^€da 
t]8t]' ri yap /cat ipovfjiev; el 8e ii-q, t6t€ dXXo ri 
aKeipo/xeda' vvv 8' eKreXcaajfjuev ttjv OKeipLV, rjv 
d)7jdiqfji€v, ei iv fxell^ovi rivi rGiv ixovrojv 8i/caio- 
avvqv nporepov e/cet iTTix^ipT^araifjiev Oedaaadai, 
paop dv iv ivl dvdpcoTTcp KarLSclv olov ion, /cat 
E eSo^e Srj rjfxlv tovto etvai ttoXls, Kal ovtojs a>/ci- 
t,opiev d)s eSvvdfxeda dpiar'qv, eS ei8oTe? on €v ye 
rfj dyadfj dv e'lrj. o ovv rjfxlv €K€l €(f)dvr], errava- 
<f>€p<x)fi€v els Tov eva, Kdv fxev o/xoAoy^rai, KaXdJs 
e^ef edv 8e rt aAAo ev rd> ivl efJL(f>aLvr]Tai,, TrdXiv 
435 eiravLovTes eirl ttjv ttoXlv ^aaavLovp^ev, /cat rax 
dv Trap* dXX-qXa gkottovvt€s Kal rpi^ovres ojaTrep 
€/c TTvpeiojv e/cAajLtj/rat TTOLijaaifjbev Tqv Si,Kaiocruv7)v, 
Kal (f)avepdv yevofxevrjv fie^aiojaaipied av avrrjv 
•nap* rjp.LV avrols. 'AAA', e^Tj, /ca^' oBov re Xeyets 
Kal TToielv xP'h ovrcos- *A/3' ovv, -qv 8 eyoj, o ye 

' In 368 E. For the loose internal accusative ijv cf. 443 b, 
Imws 666 B, Phaedr. 249 d. Sophist 264 b, my paper on 
Illogical Idiom, T.A.P.A., 1916, vol. xlvii. p. 213, and the 
school-girl's " This is the play that the reward is offered for 
the best name suggested for it." 


accepted there also as a definition of justice, we will 
then concede the point — for what else will there be 
to say ? But if not, then we will look for something 
else. But now let us work out the inquiry in which " 
we supposed that, if we found some larger thing that 
contained justice and viewed it there,* we should 
more easily discover its nature in the individual man. 
And we agreed that this larger thing is the city, and 
so we constructed the best city in our power, well 
knowing that in the good " city it would of course be 
found. What, then, we thought we saw there we 
must refer back to the individual and, if it is con- 
firmed, all will be well. But if something different 
manifests itself in the individual, we will return again 
to the state and test it there and it may be that, by 
examining them side by side "* and rubbing them 
against one another, as it were from the fire-sticks * 
we may cause the spark of justice to flash forth,^ and 
when it is thus revealed confirm it in our own minds." 
" Well," he said, " that seems a sound method^ and 
that is what we must do." " Then," said I, " if you 

* ixel though redundant need not offend in this inten- 
tionally anacoluthic and resumptive sentence. Some inferior 
Mss. read iKdvo. Burnet's <^> is impossible. 

' iv ye ry 0170^5 : cf. on 427 E, and for the force of ye cf. 
379 B, 403 E. 

^ Cf. Sophist 230 b Ti6ia<n trap dXXiJXaj, Isoc. Areopagit. 
79, Nic. 17. 

' Cf. L. & S. and Morgan, " De Ignis Eliciendi Modis," 
Harvard Studies, vol. i. pp. 15, 21 ff. and 30 ; and Damascius 
(Ruelle, p. 54, line 18) koX rourd eariv oirep e^ai<pvrfs dvdirTeTai 
(pCii dXyjdeiai wcnrep « xvpelwv TrpocTpi^ofUvuv. 

f Cf. Gorg. 484 b. Epistle vii. 344 b. 

' Plato often observes that a certain procedure is 
methodical and we must follow it, or that it is at least 
methodical or consistent, whatever the results may be. 



ravTov av rig irpoaeiTTOi fjiet^ov t€ Kal eXarrov, 
avofMoiov Tvyxdvei ov ravrrj fj ravrov irpoa- 
ayopeverai, t) o/xoiov; "Ofxotov, €<f)r). Kal Si/cato? 

B dpa dv^p SiKaias noXecos Kar avro ro rijs 
SiKaLoavvqs etSos ovSev Siolaei, aAA' ofMoios earai. 
"O/Ltotos', €(f)r]. 'AAAa fxevTOL ttoXis ye eSo^ev elvai 
SiKaia, OT€ iv avrij rpirrd yevr) <f)vaecov ivovra to 
avTcbv eKaoTOV enparTe' aa)cf>pa)v 8e av /cat 
avSpeLa /cat ao(f)rj Sta twv avTcov rovrcov yevwv 
a'AA' arra TrdOr] re /cat e^et?. 'AAt^^t^, i(f)r]. Kal 
Tov €va apa, u> ^iXe, ovrcos d^tcoaofjiev, rd avrd 

C ravra e'lSr] iv rfj avrov ipvxfj exovra, Sta rd avrd 
Trddrj CKeLVOLS tcDv avTcbv dvop,dr(x)v opdojs dftou- 
cr^at rfj noXei. Ilacra dvdyK-q, e^ii). Et? (f)avX6v 
ye av, rjv S' iyco, cL dav/jbdate, aKijxjJia ifnTeTTTCo- 
Ka/xev TTepl t/jvx'fjs, e'ire ex^i rd rpia etSr] ravra 
iv avrfj elre fxirj. Ov vdvv fjLoi SoKov/xev, €(f)7j, et? 
<f)avXov. 'iaa)s ydp, co HwKpares, ro Xcyofxevov 

" 6' 7e ravrdv : there are several reasons for the seeming 
over-elaboration of the logic in the next few pages. The 
analogy between the three classes in the state and the 
tripartite soul is an important point in Plato's ethical theory 
and an essential feature in the structure of the Republic. 
Very nice distinctions are involved in the attempt to prove 
the validity of the analogy for the present argument without 
too flagrant contradiction of the faith elsewhere expressed 
in the essential unity of the soul. Cf. Unity of Plato's 
Thought, p. 42. These distinctions in the infancy of logic 
Plato is obliged to set forth and explain as he proceeds. 
Moreover, he is interested in logical method for its own sake 
(<•/. Introd. p. xiv), and is here stating for the first time 
important principles of logic afterwards codified in the 
treatises of Aristotle. 


call a thing by the same " name whether it is big or 
little, is it unlike in the way in which it is called the 
same or like ? " " Like," he said. " Then a just 
man too will not differ * at all from a just city in re- 
spect of the very form of justice, but will be like it." 
" Yes, like." " But now the city was thought to be 
just because three natural kinds existing in it per- 
formed each its own function, and again it was sober, 
brave, and ■wise because of certain other affections 
and habits <^ of these three kinds." " True," he said. 
" Then, my friend, we shall thus expect the individual 
also to have these same forms in his soul, and by 
reason of identical affections of these ^^^th those in 
the city to receive properly the same appellations." 
" Inevitable," he said. "Goodness gracious," said I, 
" here is another trifling '^ inquiry into which we have 
plunged, the question whether the soul really con- 
tains these three forms in itself or not." " It does 
not seem to me at all trifling," he said, " for perhaps, 
Socrates, the saying is true that ' fine things are 

7c marks the inference from the verv meaning of rairrbv. 
Cf. on 379 B, 389 b, and PoUt. 278 e ; cf. also Parmen. 139 e. 

The language suggests the theory of ideas. But Plato is 
not now thinking primarily of that. He is merely repeating 
in precise logical form the point already made' (434 d-e), 
that the definition of justice in the individual must corres- 
pond point for point with that worked out for the state 

* Cf. 369 A and Meno 72 b. In Phileb. 12 e-13 c, Plato 
points out that the generic or specific identity does not 
exclude specific or sub-specific differences. 

' ?feis is here abnost the Aristotelian Ifiy. Aristotle, 
Eth. Nic. 1105 b 20, regards Trde-q, i^eis and Swd/zeis as an 
exhaustive enumeration of mental states. For Sij-d/teu rf. 
477 c. Simplic. De An. Hayduck, p. 289 d\Xa rd uv irpol 
rpaKTLKrjv idelro tbrrtv, to. rpia aova irapfi\v<i>ey. 

" Cf. 423 c 



dXrjdes, on ;)^aAe7ra ra KoXd. OatVerat, 171^ 8' 
D eyoj • /cat ev y laQi, cu VXavKCov, cos r) ifirj Sofa, 
aKpt^ojs fX€v TOVTO €K ToiovTcov /xedoScov, oiat? 
vuv iv rot? Xoyois ;^/3(X)/xe^a, ou fXT^ 7tot€ Xd^ajfJiev 
dXXrj^ yap fiaKporepa /cat TrXelcov 686s r] €7rl rovro 
ayovaa' icrcog jxevroc tojv ye 7Tpo€ipT)p,€VU)v tc fcat 
TTpoeaKe/jipLevcov d^icos. Ovkovv dyaTrrjrov; €(f)rj- 
ep-OL p,€v yap ev ye tco TTap6vri i/cavaj? dv exoi. 
AAAa p^evTot, eiTTov, e/zotye /cat Trdvv i^apKeaei. 
Mrj roivvv d7TOKdp.rjs, e(f)r], dXXd okottci,. *Ap' 
E ovv rjplv, rjv S' iyco, ttoAAt^ dvayK-q 6poXoy€iv on 
ye ra avrd ev CKdaro) eveariv rjp.cijv etSr] re /cat 
■qdr) dnep ev rfj rroXei; ov ydp ttov dXXodev cKetae 

1 The inferior reading dXXA of several good mss. would 
not appreciably affect the meaning. 

" A proverb often cited by Plato with variations. Cf. 
497 D-E. 

* TouTo by strict grammatical implication means the 
problem of the tripartite soul, but the reference to this 
passage in 504 b shows that it includes the whole question 
of the definition of the virtues, and so ultimately the whole 
of ethical and political philosophy. We are there told again 
that the definitions of the fourth book are sufficient for the 
purpose, but that complete insight can be attained only by 
relating them to the idea of good. That required a longer 
and more circuitous way of discipline and training. Plato 
then does not propose the " longer way " as a method of 
reasoning which he himself employs to correct the approxi- 
mations of the present discussion. He merely describes it 
as the higher education which will enable his philosophical 
rulers to do that. We may then disregard all idle guesses 
about a "new logic" hinted at in the longer way, and all 
fantastic hypotheses about the evolution of Plato's thought 
and the composition of the Republic based on supposed 
contradictions between this passage and the later books. 



difficult.'"" " Apparently," said I; " and let me tell 
vou, Glaucon,that in my opinion we shall never appre- 
hend this matter'' accurately from such methods 
as we are now employing in discussion. For there 
is another longer and harder way that conducts to 
this. Yet we may perhaps discuss it on the level of 
our previous statements and inquiries." " May we 
not acquiesce in that ? " he said; " I for my part 
should be quite satisfied with that for the present." 
" And I surely should be more than satisfied," I 
replied. " Don't you weary then," he said, " but 
go on with the inquiry." "Is it not, then," said I, 
"impossible for us to avoid admitting'' this much, 
that the same forms and qualities are to be found in 
each one of us that are in the state .'' They could 

Cf. Introd. p. xvi, " Idea of Good," p. 190, Unity of Plato's 
Thought, p. 16, n. 90; followed by Professor Wilamowitz, 
ii. p. 218, who, however, does not understand the connexion 
of it all with the idea of good. 

Plato the logician never commits himself to more than is 
required by the problem under discussion (cf. on 333 c), and 
Plato the moralist never admits that the ideal has been 
adequatelv expressed, but alwavs points to heights beyond. 
Cf. infra 506 e, 533 a, Phaedo 85 c, Tim. 29 b-c. Soph. 
254 c. 

• Plato takes for granted as obvious the general corres- 
pondence which some modern philosophers think it necessary 
to reaffirm. Cf. Mill, Logic, vi. 7. 1 "Human beings 
in society have no properties, but those which are derived 
from and may be resolved into the laws and the nature of 
individual man"; Spencer, Autobiog. ii. p. 543 "Society is 
created by its units. . . . The nature of its organization is 
determined by the nature of its units." 

Plato illustrates the commonplace in a slight digression 
on national characteristics, with a hint of the thought partly 
anticipated by Hippocrates and now identified with Buckle's 
name, that they are determined by climate and environment. 
Cf. Newman, Introd. to Aristot. Pol. pp. 318-320. 



d<f)LKTai. yeXotov yap av eir], et ti? olrjdeir} to 

OvfjioeiSeg fjirj e/c tcov lSicotcov iv TaZs TToXeaiv 

iyyeyovevai, 61 S17 /cat exovai ravrrjv rrjv aiTLav, 

OLOv ol Kara ttjv QpaKrjv re /cat HKvdi,K7)v /cat 

ax^Sov Tt /caret rov dvco ronov, rj ro (fnXojxadis, o 

8rj TTcpt rov Trap* r]pXv fidXicrr* dv rig atrtdaairo 

436 roTTOv, ?} ro ^iXoxp'rjpiarov , o Trepi rovs re OotVi/caj 

etvat /cat rovs Kara PuyvTrrov (f>airi ris dv ov^ 

TjKKTra. Kat /xaAa, e(/)r]. Tovro fiev 8rj ovrojs exei, 

"qv S' iyo), /cat ovSev p^aAeTTor yvci)vat, Ov Sijra. 

XII. TdSe 8e rjSr] ;;^aAe770V', et to) avroj rovrcov^ 

eKaara Trpdrrofiev "q rpialv ovatv dXXo dXXoj' 

fxavOdvofiev fxev ere pep, dvfjLovfxeda 8e dXXa> rdjv iv 

rjpxv, eTTidvpiovpLev 8' av rpirco rivl rdJv irepl rrjv 

B rpo(f)'qv re Kat. yevvrjaiv rjSovcov /cat oaa rovrcov 

d8eX(f)d, iq oXr) rfj fpvxfj Kad^ eKaarov avrcov 

TTpdrrofiev, orav oppLifjawfJiev' ravr* earai rd x^' 

XeTTa SuyptaaadaL dgicos Xoyov. Kat e/xot 80/cet, 

e^Tj. ^ilhe rolwv eTTLxetpcJofiev avrd 6plL,ea6ai, elre 

rd avrd dAAT^Aoi? elre erepd eariv. Wibs; ArjXov 

^ Obviously better than the To&r<fi of the better mss. 
accepted by Burnet. 

" alriacraiTo : this merely varies the idiom am'av fx^iv 
above, " predicate of," " say of." Cf. 599 e. It was a 
common boast of the Athenians that the fine air of Athens 
produced a corresponding subtlety of wit. Cf. Eurip. 
Medea 829-830, Isoc. vii. 74, Roberts, The Ancient Boeotians, 
pp. 59, 76. 

* ^iXoxp'?MaTO»' is a virtual synonym of iiridvfirjTiKdv. Cf. 
580 E and Phaedo 68 c, S2 c. 

" In Laws 747 c, Plato tells us that for this or some other 
cause the mathematical education of the Phoenicians and 
Egyptians, which he commends, developed in them iravovpyla 
rather than ffo<pla. 

•* The question debatied by psychologists from Aristotle 


not get there from any other source. It would be 
absurd to suppose that the element of high spirit 
was not derived in states from the private citizens 
who are reputed to have this quality, as the popula- 
tions of the Thracian and Scythian lands and generally 
of northern regions ; or the quaUty of love of know- 
ledge, which would chiefly be attributed to" the region 
where we dwell, or the love of money * which we might 
say is not least hkely to be found in Phoenicians "^ and 
the population of Egypt." " One certainly might," 
he replied. " This is the fact then," said I, " and there 
is no difficulty in recognizing it." " Certainly not." 
*XII. " But the matter begins to be difficult when 
j^ou ask whether we do all these things with the 
same thing or whether there are three things and we 
do one thing with one and one ^\'ith another — learn 
with one part of ourselves, feel anger with another, 
and with yet a third desire the pleasures of nutri- 
tion and generation and their kind, or whether it 
is \^ith the entire soul ** that we function in each case 
when we once begin. That is what is really hard to 
determine properly." " I think so too," he said. 
" Let us then attempt to define the boundary and 
decide whether they are identical with one another in 
this way." " How ? " " It is obvious that the same 

{Eth. Xic. 11Q2 a 31) to the present day is still a matter of 
rhetoric, poetry and point of view rather than of strict 
science. For some purposes we must treat the " faculties " of 
the mind as distinct entities, for others we must revert to the 
essential unity of the soul. C/. Arnold's " Lines on Butler's 
Sermons " and my remarks in The Assault on Humanism. 

Plato himself is well aware of this, and in different 
dialogues emphasizes the aspect that suits his purpose. 
There is no contradiction between this passage and Phaedo 
68 c, 8:2 c, and Rep. x. 61 1-12. Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, 
pp. 42-43. 



> \ 

OTi ravTOV ravavna ttol^lv t) 7Tacr;(eiv Kara ravTov 
ye Kal rrpog ravrov ovk edeX-qaci a/ia, aJare eav 
TTOV evpLaKCDjjLei' iv avrols ravra yiyvojxeva, 

C elaojJLcda on ov ravrov rjv dXXa TrAeto). Etev. 
2/co7ret §17 o Xeyco. A eye, e^ry. '^ardvai, cIttov, 
Kal Kiveladat ro avro a/xa /caret to avro dpa 
Svvarov; OvSaficbs • "Ert roivvv aKpi^earepov op.o- 
Xoyrjaa)[X€da, fiij ttt] npo'Covreg dfKJiLa^rjr-qcrojpLev. 
€1 ydp rts Xeyot, dvOpcoirov earr^Kora, Ktvovvra oe 
TO,? p^eipct? re /cat rrjv Kecf^aXriv, on 6 avrog 
earrjKe re Kal KLvelrai a/xa, ovK dv, of/xai, 
d^ioifjiev ovrco Xeyeiv helv, dXX on ro fiev n 

D avrov earrjKe, ro he KLvelrai. ovx ovrcog; Ovra>s. 
OvKovv Kal el en p,dXXov ■)(^apLevrit,oLro o ravra 
Xeyojv KOfjii/jevofxevos, cLg ol ye arpo^iXoi oXol 
eardai re a/xa /cat Ktvovvrai, orav ev rat avrco 
TT'q^avreg ro Kevrpov 7Tepi,(f)€pcovrai, iq Kal dXXo n 
kvkXo) TTepuov ev rfj avrfj eSpa rovro Spa, ovk av 

" The first, formulation of the law of contradiction. Cf. 
Phaedo 102 e, Theaetet. 188 a, Soph. 220 b, infra 602 e. 

Sophistical objections are anticipated here and below 
(436 e) by attaching to it nearly all the qualifying distinc- 
tions of the categories which Aristotle wearily observes are 
necessary irpbs ras <TO(f>iffTiKas ivo-x\-r](TiLs {De interp. 17 a 
36-37). Cf. Met. 1005 b 22 wpos ras \oyiKas Sva-x^peias, and 
Bhet. ii. 24. 

Plato invokes the principle against Heraclitism and other 
philosophies of relativity and the sophistries that grew out 
of them or played with their formulas. Cf. Unity of 
Plato's Thought, pp. 50 ff., 53, 58, 68. Aristotle follows 
Plato in this, pronouncing it iraffCiv ^e^aioTdrr) apxv {Met. 
1005 b 18). 

* Kara raur6c = in the same part of or aspect of itself; 
7rp6r TavTov — in relation to the same (other) thing. Cf. 
Sophist 230 B d/J.a irepl tlov auruiv wpos to, avra Kara ravra. 


thing will never do or suffer opposites " in the same 
respect'' in relation to the same thing and at the same 
time. So that if ever we find "^ these contradictions in 
the functions of the mind Me shall know that it was ^ 
not the same thing functioning but a plurahty." 
" Very well." " Consider, then, what I am saying." 
"Say on," he replied. "Is it possible for the same 
thing at the same time in the same respect to be at 
rest* and in motion ? " " By no means." " Let us 
have our understanding still more precise, lest as we 
proceed we become involved in dispute. If anyone 
should say of a man standing still but mo\'ing his 
hands and head that the same man is at the same time 
at rest and in motion we should not, I take it, regard 
that as the right way of expressing it, but rather 
that a part ^ of him is at rest and a part in motion. Is 
not that so?" "It is." "Then if the disputant 
should carry the jest still further with the subtlety 
that tops at any rate ^ stand still as a whole at the same 
time that they are in motion when with the peg fixed 
in one point they revolve, and that the same is true of 
any other case of circular motion about the same spot 

« For this method of reasoning cf. 478 d, 609 b. Laws 
896 c, Charjn. 168 b-c, Gorg. 496 c, Phileb. 11 d-e. 

■* ^;/ = " was all along and is." 

' The maxim is applied to the antithesis of rest and 
motion, so prominent in the dialectics of the day. C/. 
Sophist 249 c-D, Parmen. 156 d and passim. 

f Cf. Theaetet. 181 e. 

' The argumentative ye is controversial. For the illustra- 
tion of the top cf. Spencer, First Principles, § 170, who 
analyzes " certain oscillations described by the expressive 
though inelegant word ' wobbling ' " and their final dissipa- 
tion when the top appears stationary in the equilibrium 



dnoSexoLfieda, d)s ov /card ravra eavrojv ra 
roiavra t6t€ yievovroiv re kol (ftepofjievcov, dAAd 
E (^alfxev av ex^tv avra evdv re /cat Trept^epe? ev 
auTOts, /cat Kara jxev ro €vdv iardvai,, yap 
dnoKXtvetv, Kara 8e to Trepn^epes kvkXo) Kiveladai' 
orav 8e rrjv evdva>piav r^ els Se^idv t] els dpiarepdv 
ri els ro Trpoadev rj els ro oniadev iyKXlvr) dpa 
7TepL(f)ep6p,evov, rore ovSafxij eariv ecrrdvai. Kat 
opdcos ye, e(f)rj. Ovhev dpa rjp,ds rdv roiovroiv 
Xeyofjuevov eKTrX-q^ei, ovhe iiaXXov rt, -netaeL, cos 
TTore rt. dv ro auro ov dpa Kara ro avro rrpos ro 
437 avro rdvavria Trddoi ■^ /cat €117 r} /cat iroiriaeiev . 
OvKOvv ip,€ ye, ecfuq. 'AAA' op.o)s, rjv 8' eyco, iva 
jx'q dvayKa^copeda rrdaas rds roiavras dp(f>ia- 
p-qr-qcrets eire^Lovres /cat ^e^aiovpbevoi d>s ovk 
dXrjdeis ovaas pirjKvveiv, vrrodep^evoi cos rovrov 
ovrws exovros els ro rrpoadev 7TpoLa>p,ev, op,o- 
Xoyqcravres , edv irore dXXrj (f)avfj ravra 7] ravrj], 
irdvra rjpXv rd drro rovrov ^vpi^aivovra XeXvp.eva 
eaeaO at. 'AAAd XPV* ^'^V' Tctura TroieZv. 

" The meaning is plain, the alleged rest and motion do 
not relate to the same parts of the objects. But the syntax 
of rd ToiaOra is difficult. Obvious remedies are to expunge 
the words or to read t^v toiovtuv, the cacophony of which 
in the context Plato perhaps rejected at the cost of leaving 
his syntax to our conjectures. 

* Cf. Aristot. Met. 1022 a 23 in di t6 Kadb rb Kark diixiv 
X^yerai, Kadb laTTjKev, etc. 

* €17], the reading of most mss., should stand. It covers 
the case of contradictory predicates, especially of relation, 
that do not readily fall under the dichotomy noLdv Trdaxc"'. 
So Phaedo 97 C •^ etvai ij &\\o otlovv ■n-acrx^'-v ^ Troielv. 

•* dfX(pL(7^r}TriaeLs is slightly contemptuous. Cf. Aristot. supra, 
^yoxXweis, and Theaetet. 158 c ro 76 dfxcpLcr^tjTria-ai ov xa^^e'rAi'. 

* It is almost a Platonic method thus to emphasize the 


— we should reject the statement on the ground that 
the repose and the movement in such cases " were not 
in relation to the same parts of the objects, but we 
would say that there was a straight line and a cir- 
cumference in them and that in respect of the straight 
Une they are standing still ^ since they do not inchne 
to either side, but in respect of the circumference 
they move in a circle ; but that when as they revolve 
they inchne the perpendicular to right or left or 
forward or back, then they are in no wise at rest." 
" And that would be right," he said. " No such 
remarks then will disconcert us or any whit the more 
make us believe that it is ever possible for the same 
thing at the same time in the same respect and the 
same relation to suffer, be,'^ or do opposites." " They 
will not me, I am sure," said he. " All the same," 
said I, " that we may not be forced to examine at 
tedious length the entire Hst of such contentions <* and 
convince ourselves that they are false, let us proceed 
on the hypothesis « that this is so, with the understand- 
ing that, if it ever appear otherwise, everything that 
results from the assumption shall be invahdated." 
" That is what we must do," he said. 

dependence of one conclusion on another already accepted. 
Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, n. 471, Polk. 284 d, 
Pha«do 77 a, 92 d, Tim. 51 d, Parmen. 149 a. It may be 
used to cut short discussion {Unity of Plato's Thought, 
n. 471) or divert it into another channel. Here, however, 
he is aware, as Aristotle is, that the maxim of contradiction 
can be proved only controversially against an adversary 
who says something {cf. my De Platonis Idearum Doctrina, 
pp. 7-9, Aristot. Met. 1012 b 1-10) ; and so, having suffi- 
ciently guarded his meaning, he dismisses the subject with 
the ironical observation that, if the maxim is ever proved 
false, he will give up all that he bases on the hypothesis 
of its truth. Cf, Sophist 247 e. 

vou I 2 c 385 


B XIII. *Ap ovv, -^v 8' eyctj, to iinveveiv rw 
avaveveiv /cat to €(f)Uadai rtvos Xa^eiv ro) oltt- 
apveladai Kat to Trpoadyeadai ro) oLTTCodeladaL, Travra 
TO. TOiavra rcov ivavrccov av^ dXX-qXoLs dei-qs etre 
TTOLTjfioLTOjv eLTC TTadrjixdroov ; ovSev yap ravrr] 
Stoicrec. 'AAA', ^ 8' OS, rcov ivavTLCov. Tt ovv; 
rjv 8' iyu)- Snjjfjv /cat Treivfjv /cat oAoj? rag eTTi- 
dvfjLias, /cat av ro ideXeiv /cat ro ^ovXeadat, ov 
Trdvra ravra els e/cetm Trot dv deirjs rd eihrj rd 

C vvv St] Xe)(devTa; olov del ttjv tov eTndvfxovvTos 
tpv)(r]v ovxi tJtol e<f)ie(j9ai (f)rjaeLS eKeivov ov dv 
eTTtOvpLf], t) TTpoadyeaQaL rovro o dv ^ovXrjrai ot 
yeveaduL, r) av, /ca^' oaov edeXei ri ol TTopLddrjvaL, 
eTTivevetv rovro Trpds avriqv (Larrep rivos epwrdjvros, 
eTTopeyofxevrjv avrov rfjs yeveaeajs; "Eyoiye. Tt 
Sat; ro d^ovXelv /cat p,ri eOeXeiv p-r)8^ eTTidvp^eZv 
ovK €LS ro diTCxideZv /cat a77eAawetv oltt' avrrjs /cat 

D els diravra rdvavria eKeivois drjoop^ev; 11 a)? ydp 
ov; Tovroiv Srj ovrcos e)(ovrajv e7ndvp.iu)v tl 

^ Baiter's ay is of course necessary. 

" Cf. Oorg. 496 e, and supra on 435 d. 

^ iOdXeiv in Plato normally means to be willing, and 
/Soi'Xecr^at to wish or desire. But unlike Prodicus, Plato 
emphasizes distinctions of synonyms only when relevant 
to his purpose. Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 47 and 
n. 339, Phileb. 60 d. irpoadyeaBai below relates to iTriBviua 
and (Tn-veveiv to id^XeLv . . . (iovXecrdai., 

' Cf. Aristot. De anima 434 a 9. The Platonic doctrine 
that opinion, dd^a, is discussion of the soul with herself, or 
the judgement in which such discussion terminates {cf. 
Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 47) is here applied to the 
specific case of the practical reason issuing in an affirmation 
of the will. 



XIII. " Will you not then," said I, " set down as 
opposed to one another assent and dissent, and the en- 
deavour after a thing to the rejection of it, and embrac- 
ing to repelUng — do not these and all things like these 
belong to the class of opposite actions or passions ; 
it will make no difference which ? " " " None," said 
he, " but they are opposites." " What then," said 
I, " of thirst and hunger and the appetites generally, 
and again consenting *• and willing, would you not put 
them all somewhere in the classes just described ? 
Will you not say, for example, that the soul of one 
who desires either strives for that which he desires 
or draws towards its embrace what it \\'ishes to accrue 
to it ; or again, in so far as it wills that anything 
be presented to it, nods assent to itself thereon as 
if someone put the question,"^ striving towards its 
attainment?" " I would say so," he said. "But what 
of not-willing <* and not consenting nor yet desiring, 
shall we not put these under the soul's rejection * and 
repulsion from itself and generally into the opposite 
class from all the former ? " " Of course." " This 
being so, shall we say that the desires constitute a 

* i^ovXelv recalls the French coinage " nolont6," and the 
Southern mule's " won't-power." Cf. Epist. vii. 347 a, 
Demosth. Epist. ii. 17. 

• Cf. Aristotle's dve^XKew, De an. 433 b 8. " All willing 
is either pushing or pulling," Jastrow, Fact and Fable in 
Psychology, p. 336. Cf. the argument in Spencer's First 
Principles § 80, that the phrase " impelled by desires " is 
not a metaphor but a physical fact. Plato's generalization 
of the concepts "attraction" and "repulsion" brings about 
a curious coincidence with the language of a materialistic, 
physiological psychology (c/. Lange, History of Materialism, 
passim), just as his rejection in the Timaeus of attraction 
and actio in distans allies his physics with that of the 
most consistent materialists. 



(f)rjaoiJLev elvai elSog, /cat evapyearaTas avrcov 
Tovroiv "qv re Slipau KaXovfiev /cat t]v Treivav; 
^T]aofX€v, rj S' OS. Ovkovv ttjv /xev ttotov, ttjv 8' 
iScoSrjs; Nat. ^Ap* ovv, Kad oaov Slifja iari, 
•nXeovos civ tlvos ^ ov^ Xeyofxev eTndvjjiia iv rfj 
ijfvxfj €t7y; OLOV 8ti/»a earl Biifja dpd ye depfxov 

TTOTOV 7] l/jUXpOV, 7j TToXXoV ^ oXtyOV, ^ /Cttt iul 
XoyCp 7TOLOV TtVOS 7T(LjXaTOS I T] ^CLV fxiv Tt? 

E depfxoTTjs TO) Siipei Trpoaij, ttjv rod i/jvxpov iiri- 
dvjjLiav TTpooTTTapexoLT^ dv, idv 8e ijjvxporrjs, ttjv 
rod depjjLov; idv Se 8ta ttXtjOovs Trapovaiav ttoXX^ 
7) 8ti/»a ^, r'r]v rod ttoXXov Trape^erai, idv Se oXlyrj, 
r7]v rod oXiyov; avro 8e to Siijjfjv ov pLrj TTore 
dXXov yivrjrai iTTidvpiia tj ovirep 7T€(f>vK€v, avrod 
TTcojjiaros, /cat av ro Treivfjv ^pcofxaros ; Ovrcos, 
€(f)r], avrrj ye rj iTTiOvjiia eKaarr] avrod fxovov 
eKaarov ov 7Te(f)VKe, rod Se roiov rj roiov rd 
438 TTpoayiyvofieva. M-qroi ri?, 'qv 8' iyo), daKerrrovg 
7)p,ds ovras dopv^-qar), (hs ousels' rrorod i7ndv[xel 

^ Several good mss. have the obviously wrong wov, others 
^ oi). 

« Cf. on 349 E. 

» Cf. supra 412 b and Class. Phil. vii. (1912) pp. 485-486. 

* The argument might proceed with 439 a roO 5i^Q)vtos 
&pa i] ^I'xv. All that intervenes is a digression on logic, a 
caveat against possible misunderstandings of the proposition 
that thirst qua thirst is a desire for drink only and un- 
qualifiedly. We are especially warned (438 a) against the 
misconception that since all men desire the good, thirst must 
be a desire not for mere drink but for good drink. Cf. 
the dramatic correction of a misconception, Phaedo 79 b, 
infra 529 a-b. 

•* In the terminology of the doctrine of ideas the " pre- 
sence " of cold is the cause of cool, and that of heat, of hot. 



class* and that the most conspicuous members of 
that class * are what we call thirst and hunger ? " 
" We shall," said he. " Is not the one desire of 
drink, the other of food ? " " Yes." " Then in so far 
as it is thirst, would it be of anything more than that 
of which we say it is a desire in the soul ? " I mean is 
thirst thirst for hot drink or cold or much or Httle or 
in a word for a draught of any particular quality, or 
is it the fact that if heat <* is attached ' to the thirst it 
would further render the desire — a desire of cold, and 
if cold of hot ? But if o^nng to the presence of much- 
ness the thirst is much it would render it a thirst for 
much and if Httle for little. But mere thirst will 
never be desire of anything else than that of which 
it is its nature to be, mere drink,^ and so hunger of 
food." "That is so," he said; "each desire in 
itself is of that thing only of which it is its nature to 
be. The epithets belong to the quality — such or 
such.' " " Let no one then," * said I, " disconcert us 
when off our guard with the objection that everybody 

Cf. "The Origin of the Syllc^ism," Class. Phil. vol. xix. 
p. 10. But in the concrete instance heat caxises the desire 
of cool and vice versa. Cf. Phileb. 35 a i-riOvfut tCov inwTiuv 
fj rdtrx,fi. 

If we assume that Plato is here speaking from the point 
of view of common sense (cf. Lysis 215 e to 5^ \lji'xpi)v 6ep/xov), 
there is no need of Hermann's transposition of \pvxj>ov and 
depfjLov, even though we do thereby get a more exact sym- 
metry with rXTjOovs Trapovffiav . , . tov toWov below. 

• Tpoffj denotes that the " presence " is an addition. Cf. 
rpofffiTj in Parmen. 149 e. 

' Phileb. 35 a adds a refinement not needed here, that 
thirst is, strictly speaking, a desire for repletion by drink. 

» Cf. 429 B. But (the desires) of such or such a 
(specific) drink are (due to) that added qualification (of 
the thirst). 

* ii.^01 Tii = look you to it that no one, etc 



dAAa )(^pr]<jTov ttotov, Kal ov airov aAAa ;^/j-)yaToi> 
OLTOV. TTOLvreg yap dpa tcov dyadcov ivtdvfxovatv 
€t oSv rj St'i/ia eTndvjxia eari, ■)(priarov dv etrj etre 
TTcofxaros etre dXXov otou ia-rlv i-mSvpLia, kol at 
aAAai ovTco. "lacos ydp dv, 6^17, So/cot rl Xeyeiv 6 
ravra Xeycov. 'AAAa fxevroi, rjv S' eyco, daa y" 

B ecTTt TOiavra oia elvai tov, to. [xev 77010. arra ttoiov 
Ttvos eoTLV, d)s ejxol So/cet, ra 8' aura CKaara 
avTov eKaarov jxovov. Ovk ejxadov, €(f)r]. Ovk 
efxades, c^'rjv, on to fxel^ov tolovtov eariv olov 
TLVos etvaL ixell^ov; Yldw ye. Ovkovv tov eXdr- 
Tovos; Nai. To 8e ye ttoXv jjiel^ov ttoXv eXdr- 
Tovos. rj ydp; Nat. ^Ap' ovi^ Kal to ttotc 
fiet^ov TTore eAaTTOi^os", Kal to eaofievov fjL€tt,ov 
eaofievov eXaTTOvos; 'AAAa rt fii^v; ■^ 8' o?. 

C Kat ra TrXeioj Srj Trpos ra eXaTTOi /cat ra StTrAa- 
CTta TTpos Ta Tjpiiaea Kat, rrdvTa Ta ToiavTa, Kal av 
^apvTepa TTpos Kovc/iOTepa Kal ddTTCO vpog Ta 
PpaSvTepa, Kal ert ye Ta depfxd Trpos rd i/jv^pd Kal 

" dpa marks the rejection of this reasoning. C/. supra 
358 c, 364 E, 381 e, 499 c. Plato of course is not repudiat- 
ing his doctrine that all men really will the good, but the 
logic of this passage requires us to treat the desire of good 
€is a distinct qualiiication of the mere drink. 

* &(ja 7' iffTL Toiavra etc. : a palmary example of the 
concrete simplicity of Greek idiom in the expression of 
abstract ideas, bcra etc. (that is, relative terms) divide by 
partitive apposition into two classes, to. fxiv . . . rd 5^. The 
meaning is that if one term of the relation is qualified, the 
other must be, but if one term is without qualification, the 
other also is taken absolutely. Plato, as usual (c/. supra on 
347 b), represents the interlocutor as not understanding the 
first general abstract statement, which he therefore interprets 
and repeats. I have varied the translation in the repetition 



desires not drink but good drink and not food but 
good food, because (the argument will run '') all men 
desire good, and so, if thirst is desire, it would be 
of good drink or of good whatsoever it is ; and so 
similarly of other desires." " WTiy," he said, " there 
perhaps would seem to be something in that 
objection." " But I need hardly remind you," said 
I, " that of relative terms those that are somehow 
quahfied are related to a quaUfied correlate, those 
that are severally just themselves to a correlate that 
is just itself.* " I don't understand," he said. 
" Don't you understand," said I, " that the greater "^ 
is such as to be greater than something ? " " Cer- 
tainly." " Is it not than the less ? " " Yes." 
" But the much greater than the much less. Is that 
not so ? " " Yes." " And may we add the one 
time greater than the one time less and that which 
will be greater than that which ^\'ill be less ? " 
" Surely." " And similarly of the more towards the 
fewer, and the double towards the half and of all like 
cases, and again of the hea\ier towards the lighter, 
the s\vifter towards the slower, and yet again of the 
hot towards the cold and all cases of that kind,** 
in order to bring out the full meaning, and some of the 
differences between Greek and English idiom. 

' The notion of relative terms is familiar. Cf. Charm. 
167 E, Theaetet. 160 a, Symp. 199 d-e, Parmen. 133 c flF., 
Sophist 255 d, Aristot. Topics vi. 4, and Cat. v. It is 
expounded here only to insure the apprehension of the 
further point that the qualifications of either term of the 
relation are relative to each other. In the Politicus :283 f. 
Plato adds that the great and small are measured not only 
in relation to each other, but by absolute standards. Cf. 
Unity of Plato's Thought, pp. 61, 62, and infra 531 a. 

^ Kai . . . Kal ad . . . Kai In yt etc. mark different classes 
of relations, magnitudes, precise quantities, the mechanical 
properties of matter and the physical properties. 



TTavra ra tovtols ofioia dp' ov^ ovrcos ^x^i; Ildvv 
p,ev ovv. Tt 8e to. Trepl rds iTTiari^jjias; ovx o 
avTos TpoTTOs; emaTrjiXT) fxev avrrj pLad-qpiaTOS 
avTOV eTTKTT'qpirj ecrrlv fj otov 817 Set delvai ttjv 
€7n(jTr]p,r)v, eTnarTjpr] 8e ris Kal ttolo. ti? ttoiov 

D TLVos Kat TLVos. Ae'yoj 8e to roLovSe- ovk, 67761817 
OLKias epyacrias iTriGrrjpir] iyevero, Stt^vcyKe tcov 
aAAair iTTiCTTrjpuju, ware oLKoSopLiKrj KXrjdijvat, ; 
IL p.rjv; 'A/a' ov tcu ttolol Tig elvai, ola CTepa 
ovBepLia T(x)v aXXcov; Nat. Ovkovv ineiSr] ttolov 
Tivos, Kal avTT] TTOLO. TLs iy€V€TO ; Kal at ctAAat 
OVTOJ Tcx^at T€ Kal iTTLOTrjpat; "Ecttip' ovtcd. 

XIV. TovTo Toivvv, ■^v 8' iyco, (f)ddL pe totc 
^ovXeadai Xeyetv, el apa vvv epades, otl oaa cotIv 
ola cLvai Tov, avTo. p,ev pova avTCJV p.6vcov ioTiv, 

E Tcbv 8e TTOLcov Tivcov TTOid OLTTa. Kal ov TL Xeyoj, 
COS", oicov av 7], ToiavTa Kal eaTLv, to? apa Kal tGjv 
vyuLvcov Kal vocrcoBcov rj eTnoTrip-q vyieivr] Kal 
voawSrjg Kat tojv KaKCov Kal tcov dyadaJv KaKrj Kat, 
ayadrj' dAA' iTretS-q ovk avTov ovirep eTncJTrjpy] 
€(TTiv eyeveTO imaT'qpLr), dXXa ttoiov tivos, tovto 

" Plato does not wish to complicate his logic with meta- 
physics. The objective correlate of einaTriiLLr) is a difficult 
problem. In the highest sense it is the ideas. Cf. Parmen. 
134 a. 

But the relativity of iwiar-qixy) (Aristot. Top. iv. 1. 5) leads 
to psychological difficulties in Charm. 168 and to theological 
in Parmen. 134 c-e, which are waived by this phrase. 
Science in the abstract is of knowledge in the abstract, 
architectural science is of the specific knowledge called 
architecture. Cf. Sophist 257 c. 

" Cf. Phileh. 37 c. 

" Cf. Cratyl. 393 b, Phaedo 81 d, and for the thought 
Aristot. Met. 1030 b 2 ff. The " added determinants " need 
not be the same. The study of useful things is not necessarily 


does not the same hold ? " " By all means." " But 
what of the sciences ? Is not the May of it the same ? 
Science which is just that, is of knowledge which is 
just that, or is of whatsoever " we must assume the 
correlate of science to be. But a particular science of 
a particular kind is of some particular thing of a 
particular kind. I mean something like this : As 
there was a science of making a house it differed from 
other sciences so as to be named architecture." 
" Certainly." " Was not this by reason of its being 
of a certain kind ** such as no other of all the rest r " 
" Yes." " And was it not because it was of some- 
thing of a certain kind that it itself became a certain 
kind of science ? And similarly of the other arts 
and sciences ? " " That is so." 

XIV. " This then,' said I, " if haply you now under- 
stand, is what you must say I then meant, by the state- 
ment that of all things that are such as to be of some- 
thing, those that are just themselves only are of things 
just themselves only, but things of a certainkind are of 
things of a kind. And I don't at all mean '' that they 
are of the same kind as the things of which they are, 
so that we are to suppose that the science of health 
and disease is a healthy and diseased science and that 
of evil and good, evil and good. I only mean that as 
science became the science not of just the thing ** of 
which science is but of some particular kind of thing, 
a useful study, as opponents of the Classics argue. In Gorg. 
476 B this principle is violated by the wilful fallacy that if to 
do justice is fine, so must it be to suffer justice, but the 
motive for this is explained in Latcs 859-860. 

** ai'Tov oCirep ^irtcTrifiJ} IsTiv is here a mere periphrasis for 
fiadri/jiaTOi, aiTov expressing the idea abstract, mere, absolute, 
or per ge, but oirep or ijirep einiv is often a synonym of aiVoj 
or aiVi; in the sense of abstract, absolute, or ideal. Cf. 
Thompson on Aleno 71b, Sophist 255 d toOto Srep itniv elvai, 



8' -^v vyi,€Lv6v Kal voacoSes, ttoio. 8t] ris ^vve^rj /cai 
auTi7 yeveadai, /cat tovto avrrjv eTToirjoe fXT^Keri 
tTTicTT'qfjLrjv aTrAo)? KaXeladai, dAAo. rov ttolov rtvos 
TTpoayevofxevou larpiK-qv. "Kjjiadov, ^(f)y], kul [jlol 
8oK€L ovTOjg '^X^^^' To 8e hrj Siijjog, rjv 8' iycv, ov 
439 TOVTCOV d-qaeis rchv rivog etvai tovto oirep eoTiv; 
€aTi 8e 8t]ttov Slifjos; "Eycuye, rj 8' 6s' Trctj/xaros' 
ye. OvKovv ttoiov fxev tlvos 7Ta)[xaTos ttolov ti /cat 
Slifjos, Blifjos 8' ouv auTo oure ttoXXov ovt€ oAtyou, 
oure dya^ou ovTe KaKov, ou8' ert Aoya» ttoiov tlvos, 
dAA' auTou TTci/xaros' fJiovov avTO hlifjos 7T€(JjVK€v; 
UavTaTTaat [xev ovv. Tov Sufjibi'TOS dpa r) «/'fX^» 
Ka9* oaov ^Lijjfj, ovK ciAAo ti jSouAerat •^ Tneiv, /cat 
I> TOUTOU opeycTaL /cat e77t tovto opuq.. ^rjXov or], 
OvKovv et 77ore ti avTTjv dvOeXKei biiffoJaav, €Tepov 
av TL iv auT27 etr] avTov tov SliJjcovtos /cat dyovTos 
(xiairep Orjpiov ini to TTieiv; ov yap Srj, (f)ap,€V, 

" 5ri marks the application of this digression on relativity, 
for Stt/'oj is itself a relative term and is what it is in relation 
to something else, namely drink. 

" rQv Ttvos elvai : if the text is sound, eTvai seems to be 
taken twice, (1) with rovro etc., (2) rQv tiv6s as predicates. 
This is perhaps no harsher than t6 SoKdv elvai in Aesch. Ag. 
788. Cf. Tennyson's 

How sweet are looks that ladies bend 
On whom their favours fall, 
and Pope's 

And virgins smiled at what they blushed before. 

Possibly 6ri(T€is tQjv nvos is incomplete in itself (cf. 437 b) and 
elvai TOVTO etc. is a loose epexegesis. The only emendation 
worth notice is Adam's insertion of km tivos between rivbs 
and ehat, which yields a smooth, but painfully explicit, 

« Cf. further Sophist 255 d, Aristot. 3feL 1021 a 27, 
Aristot. Cat. v.. Top. vi. 4. So Plotinus vi. 1. 7 says that 



namely, of health and disease, the result" was that 
it itself became some kind of science and this caused 
it to be no longer called simply science but with the 
addition of the particular kind, medical science." 
" I understand," he said, " and agree that it is so." 
" To return to thirst, then," said I, " will you not 
class it with the things * that are of something and 
say that it is what it is "^ in relation to something — and 
it is, I presume, thirst ? " "I will," said he, " — 
namely of drink." " Then if the drink is of a certain 
kind, so is the thirst, but thirst that is just thirst is 
neither of much nor little nor good nor bad, nor in a 
word of any kind, but just thirst is naturally of just 
drink only." " By all means." " The soul of the 
thirsty then, in so far as it thirsts, wishes nothing else 
than to drink, and yearns for this and its impulse is 
towards this." " Obviously." " Then if anything 
draws it back <* when thirsty it must be something 
different in it from that which thirsts and drives it 
like a beast * to drink. For it cannot be, we say, that 

relative terms are those whose very being is the relation Kal 
rb elvai ovk &\\o ti fj rb aWijXois elvai. 

* Cf. on 437 c, Aristot. De an. 433 b 8, Laws 644 e, infra 
604 B, Phaedr. 238 c. The practical moral truth of this is 
independent of our metaphysical psychology. Plato means 
that the something which made King David refuse the 
draught purchased by the blood of his soldiers and Sir 
Philip Sidney pass the cup to a wounded comrade is some- 
how different from the animal appetite which it overpowers. 
Cf. Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1 102 b 24, Laws 863 e. 

' Cf. infra 589, Epist. 335 b. Cf. Descartes, Les Passions 
de Vdme, article xlvii : "En quoi consistent les combats 
qu'on a coutume d'imaginer entre la partie inferieure et la 
superieure de I'ame." He says in effect that the soul is a 
unit and the " lower soul " is the body. Cf. ibid. Ixviii, where 
he rejects the " concupiscible " and the " irascible." 



TO ye avTO toj avrco eavrov Trepl to avTO dfxa 
TovavTia TTpaTTei} Ov yap ovv. "ClaTrep ye, otfiai, 
Tov To^oTov ov KaXcos ex^i Xeyetv, otl avTov ajxa 
at x^^P^^ '^^ To^ov aTTcodovvTai re koI TrpoaeXKovTai, 
aAA' OTL aXXrj fxev rj dTTCodovaa x^^P> ere/aa 8e rj 

C npoaayoiJLevrj. HavTOLTTacri jxev ovv, e(f>ri. IloTepov 
OTj (f)a)fjiev TLvas ecxTiv oTe SiipcovTas ovk ideXeiv 
TTLelv; Kat pLoXa y' , €<f)rj, voWovs Kal ttoXXolkis. 
Ti ovv, €<l)r]v eyo), (f)air) ti? dv tovtojv Ttepi; ovk 
evetp'at jxev ev tjj ijjvxfj avTcov to KeXevov, evelvat 
8e TO KcoXvov TTLelv, dXXo ov Kal KpaTovv tov KeXev- 
ovTos ; "EjLtotye, 6^17, hoKeZ. ^Ap^ ovv ov to pikv 
KUiXvov TO, TOLavTa eyyiyveTaL, OTav eyyiyvrjTaL,^ e/c 

D XoyLcrp,ov, to. he dyovTa Kal eXKovTa Sia 7Tadrjp,dT(ov 

Te Kal voarjfxdTa)v TrapayiyveTai; OaiVerai. Ov 

Srj dXoyo)?, rjv S' iyo), d^La)aop,ev aura Sirra re 

Kal eTepa aAAr^AoJi' etvaL, to piev J) Aoyt^erat 

XoyLGTLKov npoaayopevovTes ttjs ifjvx^]?, to 8e o) 

^ So Ast for MS. irpoLTTOL — necessarily, unless we read with 
Campbell &fjL av. 

* So Schneider ; cf. 373 e : iyy^virjTai codd. 

» Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, p, 68: "Plato ... de- 
lights to prick . . . the bubbles of imagery, rhetoric and 
antithesis blown by his predecessors. Heraclitus means well 
when he says that the one is united by disunion {Symp. 187 a) 
or that the hands at once draw and repel the bow. But the 
epigram vanishes under logical analysis." 

For the conceit cf. Samuel Butler's lines : 

He that will win his dame must do 
As love does when he bends his bow. 
With one hand thrust his lady from 
And with the other pull her home. 

* iveTvai fih . . . helvai 5e : the slight artificiality of the 
anaphora matches well with the Gorgian jingle KekexJov . . . 



the same thing with the same part of itself at the same 
time acts in opposite ways about the same thing." 
" We must admit that it does not." " So I fancy it 
is not well said of the archer " that his hands at the 
same time thrust away the bow and draw it nigh, 
but we should rather say that there is one hand that 
puts it away and another that draws it to." " By 
all means," he said. " Are we to say, then, that some 
men sometimes though thirsty refuse to drink ? " 
" We are indeed," he said, " many and often." 
" What then," said I, " should one affirm about them ? 
Is it not that there is ** a something in the soul that 
bids them drink and a something that forbids, a 
different something that masters that which bids ? " 
" I think so." " And is it not the fact that that which 
Inhibits such actions arises when it arises from the 
calculations of reason, but the impulses which draw 
and drag come through affections ^ and diseases ?" 
" Apparently." " Not unreasonably," said I, " shall 
we claim that they are two and different from one 
another, naming that in the soul whereby it reckons 
and reasons the rational <* and that with which it loves, 

KuXvov. Cf. Iambi. Protrept. p. 41 Postelli icrri yap Toiovroy 
6 KfXevei Kai KuiXvet. 

' The " pulls " are distinguished verbally from the passions 
that are their instruments. voari/j.d.Twv suggests the Stoic 
doctrine that passions are diseases. Cf. Cic. Tusc. iii. 4 
perturbationeg, and passim, and Phileb. 45 c. 

"* \oyi<TTiK6v is one of Plato's many synonyms for the in- 
tellectual principle. Cf. 441 c, 571 c, 587 d, 605 b. It em- 
phasizes the moral calculation of consequences, as opposed 
to blind passion. Cf. Crito 46 b (one of the passages which 
the Christian apologists used to prove that Socrates knew 
the X670S), Theaetet. 186 C avoKoyiaixaTa -rrpo^ re ovaia.v koX 
<b<l>4\(iav, and Laws 644 d. Aristot. Eth. 1139 a 12 somewhat 



ipa T€ Kal veLvfj Kal Supfj koI ircpl ras oAAa? 
€7n6vjJiias eTTTorjTaL dXoyLarov re Kal eTndvfxiqTiKov, 
TrXrjpdiaediv tivojv Kal rjSovoJv eralpov. Ovk, aAA' 
E ei/coTCt)?, e^"*;, "qyoijxed^ dv ovtojs. Taura [xev 
TOLvvv, rjv 8' iyo), Svo rjfxiv (hpiadco eihy] iv ifjvxfj 
evovra' to Se Srj rod dvjjLov Kal co Ovp-ovpieda 
7TOT€pov rpirov ri tovtcov TTorepco dv etrj 6p,ocf)V€s; 
laojs, e^^y, to) irepu), ro) imdvixr^TiKa). 'AAA', 
■^v S eyctj, TTore aKovaas tl TTiaTevco tovtco, a»? 
apa Aeovrios 6 ^AyXatatvog dvicbv €k Heipaiecos 
VTTo TO ^opeiov relxos cktos, aladop^evos veKpovs 
Trapa Tcp S-qfita) K€L[M€Vovs, dp.a jxev ISelv eTTtOvfiol, 
a/ta 8' ay Svax^palvoi Kal aTTOTpeTTOi eavTov, Kai 

" iirrdriTai : almost technical, as in Sappho's ode, for the 
flutter of desire. d\6yia-Tov, though applied here to the 
eTTidv^iriTiKov only, suggests the bipartite division of Aristotle, 
Eth. Nic. 1102 a 28. 

* So the bad steed which symbolizes the iiri8vfir]TiK6v in 
Phaedr. 253 e is dXa^oveias eraipos. 

* We now approach the distinctively Platonic sense of 
Ovfios as the power of noble wrath, which, unless perverted 
by a bad education, is naturally the ally of the reason, 
though as mere angry passion it might seem to belong to 
the irrational part of the soul, and so, as Glaucon suggests, 
be akin to appetite, with which it is associated in the mortal 
soul of the Timaeus 69 n. 

In Laws 731 b-c Plato tells us again that the soul cannot 
combat injustice without the capacity for righteous indigna- 
tion. The Stoics affected to deprecate anger always, and the 
difference remained a theme of controversy between them 
and the Platonists. C/. Schmidt, Ethik der Griechen, ii. pp. 
321 ff., Seneca, De ira, i. 9, and passim. Moralists are still 
divided on the point. Cf. Bagehot, Lord Brougham : '* An- 
other faculty of Brougham ... is the faculty of easy tinger. 



hungers, thirsts, and feels the flutter" and titillation 
of other desires, the irrational and appetitive — ■ 
companion^ of various repletions and pleasures." 
" It would not be unreasonable but quite natural," he 
said, " for us to think this." " These two forms, 
then, let us assume to have been marked off as 
actually existing in the soul. But now the Thumos*' 
or principle of high spirit, that with which we feel 
anger, is it a third, or would it be identical in nature 
with one of these ? " " Perhaps," he said, " with 
one of these, the appetitive." " But," I said, " I 
once heard a story" which I believe, that Leontius the 
son of Aglaion, on his way up from the Peiraeus under 
the outer side of the northern wall,* becoming aware 
of dead bodies ' that lay at the place of public execu- 
tion at the same time felt a desire to see them and a 
repugnance and aversion, and that for a time he 

The supine placidity of civilization is not favourable to ani- 
mosity [Bacon's word for dv/j-os]." Leslie Stephen, Science of 
Ethics, pp. 60 ff. and p. 62, seems to contradict Plato : "The 
supposed conflict between reason and passion is, as I hold, 
meaningless if it is taken to imply that the reason is a 
facultj' separate from the emotions," etc. But this is only 
his metaphysics. On the practical ethical issue he is with 

** Socrates has heard and trusts a, to us, obscure anecdote 
which shows how emotion may act as a distinct principle re- 
buking the lower appetites or curiosities. Leontius is un- 
known, except for Bergk's guess identifying him with the 
Leotrophides of a corrupt fragment of Theopompus Comicus, 
fr. 1 Kock, p. 739. 

• He was following the outer side of the north wall up to 
the city. Cf. Lysis 203 a, Frazer, Paus. ii. 40, Wachsmuth, 
Stadt At hen, i. p. 190. 

' The corpses were by, near, or with the executioner (6 ivl 
T<p opvy/xari) whether he had thrown them into the pit 
(fiipadpov) or not. 



440 Tea)s jxaxoLro re kol TrapaKaXvTTTOiTO , Kparov- 
fievos S' ovv VTTo rrjs iTTtdvfilas, SteA/cytra? rovs 
ocpOaXjXovs, TTpoahpafxibv irpos rov? veKpovg, ISov 
vpXv, €(f)r],^ KaKoSaCpLOves , epLTrXrjadrjTe rov KaXov 
dedpiaros.jliKovaa, €(j)rj, /cat auro?. Ovros p-€v- 
TOL, €cl)riv, 6 Xoyos aqpLaivei ttjv 6pyr]v rroXepieiv 
evLOT€ rals eTnOvpiLais cu? ctAAo 6V aAAoj. Sr^/xatVet 
yap, e(f)-q. 

XV. OvKovv Koi aXXoOi, €(f>r]v, TToXXaxov al- 
adavopueda, orav ^Ld[,a>VTaL nva napd top Xoyccrpiov 
B eTTidvpiiai, XoihopovvTo. re avrov /cat 6vp.ovpL€vov 
ra> ^ta^ojueVo) iv avro), /cat woTrep hvolv araaia- 
C,ovTOiv ^vpLp,axov rep Xoytp yiyvopievov rov dvpcov 
rov roLovrov; rats S' CTrt^u/xtats' avrov KOivco- 
vrjaavra, alpovvros Xoyov pLT] Setv, avmrparreLV, 
olpiai Se ovK av (fxivai yevop-evov irore iv aavrco 
rov rotovrov aladecrdai, OLp,ai 8' ovS^ iv aXXcp. 
C Ov p,a rov Ata, e^Tj. Tt 8e; ■^v S' iyo)- orav 
Tt? o'liqrai dhiKeZv, ov)( oaco av yevvaiorepos fj, 
roaovrcp rjrrov Svvarai 6pyit,eadai /cat 7T€Lva)v /cat 
piya)v /cat aAAo oriovv rihv roiovrayv rrday^uiv vti* 

" Cf. Antiph. fr. 18 Kock wXrjyels, rius fiiv iireKpirei, r^j 
avfKpopds, etc., and 

Maids who shrieked to see the heads 
Yet shrieking pressed more nigh. 

* He apostrophizes his eyes, in a different style from 
Romeo's, "Eyes, look your last." 

" avTov : we shift from the Ovfios to the man and back again. 

^ dvrnrpd.TTfti' : that is, oppose the reason. It may be 
construed with Seiv or as the verb of avrdv. There are no 
real difficulties in the passage, though many have been 
found. The order of words and the anacoluthon are inten- 
tional and effective. Cf. supra on 434 c. oiiK clv . . . irori 
is to literal understanding an exaggeration. But Plato is 



resisted* and veiled his head, but overpowered in 
despite of all by his desire, with wide staring eyes 
he rushed up to the corpses and cried, ' There, ye 
wretches,'' take your fill of the fine spectacle ! ' " 
" I too," he said, " have heard the story." " Yet, 
surely, this anecdote," I said, " signifies that the 
principle of anger sometimes fights against desires as 
an ahen thing against an alien." " Yes, it does," he 

XV. "And do we not," said I, " on many other occa- 
sions observe when his desires constrain a man con- 
trary' to his reason that he re\iles himself and is angry 
\tith that -svithin which masters him ; and that as it 
were in a faction of two parties the high spirit of such 
a man becomes the ally of his reason ? But its * 
making common cause <* with the desires against the 
reason when reason whispers low * ' Thou must not ' — 
that, I think, is a kind of thing you would not affirm 
ever to have perceived in yourself, nor, I fancy, in any- 
body else either." "No, by heaven," he said. "Again, 
when a man thinks himself to be in the >%Tong,' is it 
not true that the nobler he is the less is he capable of 
anger though suffering hunger and cold ' and what- 

speaking of the normal action of uncorrupted 6vii6s. Plato 
would not accept the psvchology of Euripides' Medea 

Koi fiauOdyu (tip ota Spay /liXXu /caxd, 
Bvubs Sk KpeiiTffw Twp ift-Qv ^ovKevfjArur, 

Cf. Dr. Loeb's translation of Decharme, p. 340. 

• aipoivTos : cf. 604 c, and L. & S. s.T. A. ii. 5. 

' So Aristot. Rhet. 1380 b 17 ov yiyverai yap rj opyrj rpbi rb 
bUaiov, and Eth. 37c. 1135 b 28 i-ri tpaivofievr) yap ddiKia 
ri ipryif iarur. This is true only with Plato's reservation 
yarpaibrepoi. The baser type is angry when in the wrong. 

* Cf. Demosth. xv. 10 for the same general idea. 

VOL. I 2 D 401 


CKeivov, ov dv oiy]rai hiKaicjs ravra ^pav, /cat, o 
Xeyo), ovK ideXec Trpog tovtov avrov eyeipeadai 6 
dvfios; ^AXtjOt], €</>')7. Tt Se; orav ahiKeiadai tis 
rjyrjrai, ovk iv tovtco t^el re koI ;^aAe7ratVet /cat 
^Vfjifiaxei r(x> SoKovvTi 8t/caia> /cat 8ta to Treivfjv 

D Kol 8ia TO piyovv /cat TtavTa to. roiavra Trdcrxeiv 
VTTOfxevojv /cat vlkS, Kal ov Xyye i tcov yej^vaiu iiLf 
rrpLV dv t] biaTrpd^rjTat -q TeXevrT^arj rj ojcnrep kvcov 
V7TO vojjieojs VTTO Tov Xoyov Tov 77ap' avTcp dva- 
KX-qdels ^o.vvdfj; Yidw /xev ovv, €(f>rj, eoLKe tovtu) 
(h Xeyeis, KaiTOL y' iv rfj TjixeTepa TToXei tovs 
CTTLKovpovs wanep Kvvas cde^eda vtttjkoovs tcov 
apxovTCov oiOTTep TTOtp-evcov TToXecos- KaAcD? ydp, 
Tjv 8' eydi, voels o ^ovXop,ai Xeyeiv. dXX ■^ Trpos 

E TovTcp /cat ToSe iv6yfi£X : To rrolov; "On rovvav- 
TLov 7] apTLCos rjpuv (^atVerat Trept tov BvfxoeiSovs. 
TOT€ ii€v yap eTndvfirjTLKov tl avTO (hofieda etvai, 
vvv Se TToXXov Setv <j>apiev, dXXd ttoXv fxdXXov avTO 
€v TTJ TTJg ifjvxTj? CTTCiCTet Tideadai Ta orrXa npos to 
XoyicTTtKov. YlavrdTTaaiv, €cj)rj. ^Ap^ ovv CTepov 
ov /cat TOVTOV, r} Aoyto-rt/cou rt etSo?, caCTxe /x')7 
T/3ta aAAa hvo elSYj elvaL iv ifjvxfj, XoytaTLKov Kal 

" d \4yu: idiomatic, "as I was saying." 

* iv TotJT(fi : possibly " in such an one," preferably " in 
such a case." 9i'/j.6s is plainly the subject of fet. (Cf. the 
physiological definition in Aristot. De an. 403 a 31 ^iaiv tov 
irepl T7)v Kapdiav aifiaro^), and SO, strictly speaking, of all 
the other verbs down to X-riyei. Kai dia. to veivijv . , . iraax^i-v 
is best taken as a parenthesis giving an additional reason 
for the anger, besides the sense of injustice. 

" tG>v yevvaiwv : i.e. the 6vfi6i of the noble, repeating So-y 
hv yevfaioTepoi ^ above. The interpretation " does not desist 
from his noble (acts) " destroys this symmetry and has no 


soever else at the hands of him whom he beheves to 
be acting justly therein, and as I say" his spirit refuses 
to be aroused against such a one ? " " True," he said. 
" But what when a man believes himself to be 
\vronged, does not his spirit in that case ^ seethe and 
grow fierce (and also because of his suffering hunger, 
cold and the hke) and make itself the ally of what lie 
judges just, and in noble souls " it endures and wins 
the \ictory and will not let go until either it achieves 
its purpose, or death ends all, or, as a dog is called 
back by a shepherd, it is called back by the reason 
wthin and calmed." " Your simihtude is perfect," 
he said, " and it confirms <* our former statements that 
the helpers are as it were dogs subject to the rulers 
who are as it were the shepherds of the city." "You 
apprehend my meaning excellently," said I. " But 
do you also take note of this ? " " Of what ? " 
" That what we now think about the spirited element 
is just the opposite of our recent surmise. For then 
we supposed it to be a part of the appetitive, but now, 
far from that, we say that, in the factions * of the soul, 
it much rather marshals itself on the side of the 
reason." " By all means," he said. "Is it then 
distinct from this too, or is it a form of the rational, so 
that there are not three but two kinds in the soul, 

warrant in Plato's use of ytwaioi. Cf. 375 e, 4o9 a. The 
only ailment against the view here taken is that "^1^0$ 
is not the subject of Xirvet," which it plainly is. The shift 
from dvfioi to the man in what follows is no diiBculty and 
is required only bv TeXevrVl?. which may weU be a gloss. 
Cf. A. J. P. xvi. p. 237. 

' KcuTOL ye calls attention to the confirmation supplied by 
the image. Cf. supra on 376 b, and my article in Class. 
Joum. vol. iiL p. 29. 

• C/. 440 B and Phaedr. 237 s. 



iTTidvfX'qTiKov; i^ KaOdnep ev rfj TToXei ^vvetx^v 
441 avTTjv rpia ovra ycvrj, )(pr]iJLaTiaTLK6v , eTTiKovprj- 
TLKOV, ^ovXevTLKov, ovTCti Kol ev ^V)(rj rpirov tovto 
ioTi TO dvjjLoeiSes, CTTLKOvpov ov rep XoyiarLKO) 
(f>va€i, iav p,rj vtto /ca/crj? rpocjirjs hia(f>dapfj; 
^AvdyKrj, c(f)r], rpirov. ^ai, rjv 8 eyo), dv ye rov 
XoyiariKov aAAo ri (f)avfj wcrTrep rov iTndufirjriKov 
i(f>dvrj crepov 6v. 'AAA' ov xaAeTTov', e</>7], (f)avrjvaL. 
Kal yap iv rols TraiStois' rovro y dv rig tSot, on 
dvp,ov fiev evOvs yev6p.€va jxeara eari, Xoyiajxov 
B 8' evioi p,€v efxoiye SoKovaiv ovSerrore pberaXap,- 
^dveiv, oi 8e ttoXXoi oifje irore. Nat /xa Ai", 7]v 8' 
eyd>, KaXu)s ye etTre?. en he ev rois dripiois dv ns 
I'Soi o Xeyeig, on ovrcog e^ei. irpos 8e rovrois Kal 
o dva> TTOV €Kei eiiropiev, ro rod 'Op.'jpov {xaprv- 
p'qcrei, ro 

arrjOos 8e TrAi^^a? KpaSirjv r]viTiaTT€ fxvOco' 

evravda yap Brj Ga(f)djs co? erepov erepco eTTnrXrjrTov 
C 7Te7Toir]Kev "Op,rjpos ro dvaXoyiadjjievov Trepi rod 
^eXriovos re Kal ■)(^eipovos rep dXoyiarws dvjxovpievcp. 
K.oijLihij, e(f)r], opdcjs Xeyeig. 

XVI. Taura piev dpa, rjv 8' eyco, p,6yis 8ta- 
V€vevKap,ev, Kal rjfXLv eTTieiKcos ofioXoyeirai, rd 
avrd [xev iv TToXei, rd avrd 8 ev evos eKaarov rfj 
tlfvxfj yevTj iveivai Kal taa rov dpidpiov. "Eari 

" It still remains to distinguish the \oyi(rri.K6v from 0vfi6i, 
which is done first by pointing out that young children 
and animals possess 6vfx6i {cf. Laws 963 e, Aristot. Pol. 
1334 b 22 IF.), and by quoting a line of Homer already 
cited in 390 d, and used in Phaedo 94 e, to prove that 
the soul, regarded there as a unit, is distinct from the 



the rational and the appetitive, or just as in the 
city there were three existing kinds that composed 
its structure, the money-makers, the helpers, the 
counsellors, so also in the soul there exists a third 
kind, this principle of high spirit, which is the helper 
of reason by nature unless it is corrupted by evil 
nurture ? " " We have to assume it as a third," he 
said, " Yes," said I, " provided" it shall have been 
shown to be something different from the rational, 
as it has been shown to be other than the appetitive." 
"That is not hard to be shown," he said; "for 
that much one can see in children, that thev are from 
their very birth chock-full of rage and high spirit, 
but as for reason, some of them, to my thinking, 
never participate in it, and the majority quite late." 
" Yes, by heaven, excellently said," I rephed ; " and 
further, one could see in animals that what you say 
is true. And to these instances we may add the 
testimony of Homer quoted above : 

He smote his breast and chided thus his heart. 

For there Homer has clearly represented that in us 
which has reflected about the better and the worse 
as rebuking that which feels unreasoning anger as if 
it were a distinct and different thing." " You are 
entirely right," he said. 

XVI. " Through these waters, then," said I, " we 
have with difficulty made our way * and we are fairly 
agreed that the same kinds equal in number are to be 
found in the state and in the soul of each one of us." 

passions, there treated as belonging to the body, like the 
mortal soul of the Timaeus. See Unity of Plato's Thouaht 
pp. 42-43. ^ ' 

* Cf. Parmen. 137 a, Pindar, 01. xili. 114 (Kvevvai. 



ravra. Ovkovv ckcIvo ye TJBr) dvayKotov, cos 
TToXts rjv ao(f)r) /cai a>, ovto) koI rov Ihiwrrjv Kai 
rovTcp ao(f)6v eivat; Ti fii^v; Kat a> Srj avSpetos 

D tbicoTrjg Kal cos", tovto) /cai ttoXlv avSpelav /cat 
OVTCDS, /cat TaAAa Trdvra npos dperrjv (Lcravrcos 
dix(f>6Tepa €X€iv. ^AvdyK-q. Kat SiKaiov Si^, c5 
TXavKcov, otfxai,, (fi'qaopLev dvSpa elvat, ra> avrco 
rpoTTCp, ojTTep /cat ttoXls ■^v 8t/cata. Kai tovto 
Trdaa dvdyKTj. 'AAA' ov ttt) nrjv tovto im- 
XeX-qafxeda, otl eKeivrj ye tco to iavTOV eKaoTov iv 
avTjj TTpaTTetv Tpiwv ovTOiv yevdjv 8t/cata rjv. Ov 
fiOL BoKOVfiev, €<j>ri, eTnXeXrjaOai. MvrjfjLovevTeov 
dpa 7j[juv, OTi /cai -qfjLcov e/caaros', otov dv to, avTOV 

E €KaaTOV tcov ev avrio TrpaTTT), ovtos St/catds" t€ 

eoTat, /cai ra avTOV TrpdTTCOv. Kai /xaAa, ■^ 8' 09, 

pLvripiovevTeov . Ovkovv toj /xei^ XoyiaTiKO) dp)(€tv 

TTpoa'qKeL, ao(f)cp ovtl Kai e^ovTi ttjv virep aTrdarjs 

TTJg i/jvxrjs TT pofiT^ 6 eiav, tco 8e dvpLoeiSel VTrriKoco 

elvai /cai ^vpipidxcp tovtov; Yldvv ye. Ap' ovv 

ovx, oiOTxep iXeyoixev, p.ovaLKrjs /cai yvpLvaaTLKrjs 

KpdoLs ^viJ.^(x)va avTa TTOi-qaei, to jxev eTnTeivovaa 

442 Kal Tp€(f)ovoa Xoyoig re KaXolg /cai [xad-qixacri, to 

Se di'tetcra Trapaiivdovp-evrj, r]p.epovaa dpp.ovia re 

/cai pvdfxip; K.op.tSrj ye, rj 8' os. Kat Toyrto 817 

ovTio Tpa(f>€VT€ Kal d)S dX-qddJs to, avTwv jxadovTC 

Kal TTaiSevdevTe TrpoaTaT-qaeTOV^ tov eTndvpurjTiKov, 

o Brj TrXeLOTOv ttjs ^vxrjs iv eKdaTcp cutI /cat 

^ Bekker's irpotxTaT-qireTov is better than the ms. it/joo-tij- 

<• Cf. 435 B. 

* Cf. Meno 73 c, Hipp. Major 295 d. A virtual synonym 
for T(^ a(rr(} eZ5et, ilfewo 72 E. 



" That is so." " Then does not the necessity of our 
former postulate immediately follow, that as and 
whereby " the state was wise so and thereby is the 
individual wise ? " " Surely." " And so whereby and 
as the individual is brave, thereby and so is the state 
brave, and that both should have all the other constitu- 
ents of virtue in the same way * ? " " Necessarily." 
" Just too, then, Glaucon, I presume we shall say a 
man is in the same way in which a city was just." 
" That too is quite inevitable." " But we surely 
cannot have forgotten this, that the state was just 
by reason of each of the three classes found in it ful- 
filling its own function." "I don't think we have 
forgotten," he said. " We must remember, then, 
that each of us also in whom '^ the several parts within 
him perform each their own task — he will be a just 
man and one who minds his own affair." " We must 
indeed remember," he said. " Does it not belong to 
the rational part to rule, being wise and exercising 
forethought in behalf of the entire soul, and to the 
principle of high spirit to be subject to this and its 
ally ? " " Assuredly." " Then is it not, as we said,** 
the blending of music and gymnastics that will 
render them concordant, intensifying and fostering 
the one with fair words and teachings and relaxing 
and soothing and making gentle the other by har- 
mony and rhythm ? " " Quite so," said he. "And 
these two thus reared and having learned and been 
educated to do their own work in the true sense of 
the phrase,* will preside over the appetitive part 
which is the mass ^ of the soul in each of us and the 

' 5tov: ef. 431 b ov, and 573 d Cjy. * Cf. 41 1 e, 412 a. 

* Cf. supra cm 433 b-e, infra 443 d, and Charm. 161 b. 

' Cf. on 431 A-B, Laics 669 a-b. 



XP'TifiOLTiov (f)va€i aTrXrjaroTaTov' o rrjp-qaeTov, [xr] 
rep TTLpLTrXaadai ra)v Trept, to aa)p,a KaXovp.eva>v 
rj8ova>v TToXi) /cat la-)(vp6v yevopcevov ovk av ra av- 
B Tov TTpdrTTj, aAAct KaraSovXioaaaOai Kai dpx^t-v 
eTTix^ip-qarj ojv ov TrpoarJKov avrcp yevec, /cat ^vp- 
TTavTa TOV ^Lov TTavTCov avarpeiprj. Hdvv p,ev 
ovv, 6(^17. 'A/a' ovv, rjv S' eyo), /cat Toys' e^codeu 


GLTTdarjs TTJs ^vx^js T€ /cat TOV aojpLaTos, to p.kv 
^ovXevopevov, to Se TrpoTroXepuovv, irropevov 8e t<S 
dpxovTL Kai Tjj avSpeia eTTLTeXovv to. ^ovXevdevTa; 
"Ectti TavTa. Kat dvSpelov Si], olp-ai, tovtco tco 

C pipei KaXovpiev eva eKaoTov, OTav avTov to dvp,o- 
eiSe? hiaa(jot,rj hid t€ Xuttcov /cat rjSovcjv to vtto 
TOV Xoyov TrapayyeXOev Setvov tg /cat p/r]. 'OpOcos 
y', €(f)r]. 'EiO(f)6v 8e ye eKeivo) tco apuKpcp puipei, 
TW o rjpx^ t' iv avTtp /cat TavTa TraprjyyeXXev , 
e^ov av /ca/cetvo eTnaTrjpr]v iv avTO) ttjv tov $vpb- 
(^epovTog eKdcTTCp t€ kol oXco tco koivo) a(f)Cov avTcov 
Tpicbv ovTcov. Ilai'i; pev ovv. Ti 8e; aco(j>pova 

D ov TTJ (fycXici /cat ^vp.<j)covLa Trj avTcov tovtojv, orav 
TO Te dpxov /cat tco dp^opevco to XoyioTLKov 
o/xo8o^a>CTt 8etv dpx^iv /cat piT] aTaatd^coaLV avTcp; 
^co<j>poavv7] yovv, r] S 6s, ovk dXXo tC ioTLV rj 

" Strictly speaking, pleasure is in the mind, not in the 
body. Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, n. 330. KaXovpLevwv 
implies the doctrine of the Gorgias 493 e, 494 c, Phileb. 
42 c, Phaedr. 258 e, and infra 583 b-584 a, that the 
pleasures of appetite are not pure or real. Cf. Unity 
of Plato's Thought, n. 152. Cf. on Xeyofiivuv 431 c. 

" Cf. on 426 E, 606 b. 

" irpocxriKov : sc. iarlv dpxeif. y^fei, by affinity, birth or 
nature. Cf. 444 b. q reads yevQy. 


most insatiate by nature of wealth. They will keep 
watch upon it, lest, by being filled and infected with 
the so-called pleasures associated vrith the body ^ and 
so waxing big and strong, it may not keep to *• its own 
work but may undertake to enslave and rule over the 
classes which it is not fitting ' that it should, and so 
overturn** the entire life of all." " By all means," 
he said. " Would not these two, then, best keep 
guard against enemies from without « also in behalf of 
the entire soul and body, the one taking counsel,^ the 
other gi\ing battle, attending upon the ruler, and by 
its courage executing the ruler's designs? " " That 
is so." " Brave, too, then. I take it, we call each in- 
dividual by virtue of this part in him, when, namely, 
his high spirit preserves in the midst of pains and 
pleasures ^ the rule handed down by the reason as to 
what is or is not to be feared." " Right," he said. 
" But wise by that small part that * ruled in him and 
handed down these commands, by its possession* in 
turn within it of the knowledge of what is beneficial 
for each and for the whole, the community composed 
of the three." " By all means." "And again, was he 
not sober by reason of the friendship and concord of 
these same parts, when, namely, the ruling principle 
and its two subjects are at one in the behef that the 
reason ought to rule, and do not raise faction against 
it ? " " The virtue of soberness certainly," said he, 
" is nothing else than this, whether in a city or an 

' Cf. mpra 389 d. 

• Cf. supra 415 e. 

' Cf. Isoc. xii. 138 avn] ydp i<my ij ^ovXevo/jJrr) repl 
aratrruv. ' Cf. 429 C-D. 

• Cf. Goodwin's Cfreek Grammar, § 1027. 

• ixo' '• anacoluthic epexegesLs, corresponding to 5rar . . . 
dioffu^j/. av probably merely marks the correspondence. 



TOVTO, TToXews re Kal lSlwtov. 'AAAa fxev Srj 
ScKaLos ye, a> ttoXXolkis Xeyofiev, rovrw Kal outcos" 
€CTTat. IIoAAt^ dvayKT). Tt ovv; elirov eyoj' fi-q 
TTTj TjiMV dTTafi^Xvverai ctAAo ti St/catocrwi^ SoKeXv 
etvai rj oirep iv rfj TroAet i(f)dvr) ; Ovk ejLtotye, €<f)r], 
E SoKel. ^nSe ydp, rjv S' eyco, TTavraTTaaiv dv 
^e^aicoaaiiJieda, el' rt, r)[Jid)v en iv rfj fpvxjj d^L^i- 
a^-qrei, rd (^opriKd avrco 7Tpoa(f)epovTes. Iloia S-q ; 
Otov el Se'ot rjfxds dvofioXoyeladai Trepi re eKeivqs 
Trfs TToXecjos Kal rov eK€Lvr] opioiois 7T€(f>VK6Tos re 
Kal red papup-evov dvhpos, el So/cet cti^ irapaKara- 
d-qKrjv ;!(puatou ■^ dpyvpiov he^dp.evos d roLovros 
dTTOGreprjaaL, rtv dv otei olrjdrjvai rovro avrov 
443 hpdaai p,dXXov t) ocrot pLTj roLovroi; OvSev* dv, 
e(f)rj. OvKovv Kal lepocrvXiibv Kal kXottcov Kal 
■npoSoaicov, t] tSia eraipojv r] hripLoaia TroXecov, 
€Kr6g dv ovros eir]; 'Ekto?. Kat pirjv ou8' 
oTTCoariovv dinaros "^ Kara opKovs t] Kara rds 
oAAaj op-oXoyias. Hcos yap dv; Motx^lai prjv 
Kal yovewv dpeXetai Kal 6ed)v ddepaTrevaiai Travrl 
dXXcp pidXXov rj rep roiovrcp Trpoa-qKovaiv. Ylavrl 
B pevrot, e(f)r]. Ovkovv rovrcov Trdvrcov alriov, on 

" <J woWdKis: that is, by the principle of rb eavToO 

* d-rrafx^XvufTai : is the edge or outline of the definition 
blunted or dimmed when we transfer it to the individual ? 

" The transcendental or philosophical definition is con- 
firmed by vulgar tests. The man who is just in Plato's 
sense will not steal or betray or fail in ordinary duties. 
Cf. Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1178 b 16 ^ (pofyriKbs 6 iwaivos . . . 
to say that the gods are adxppoves. Similarly Plato feels 
that there is a certain vulgarity in applying the cheap 
tests of prudential morality (cf. Phaedo 68 c-d) to intrinsic 
virtue. " Be this," is the highest expression of the moral 



indi\-idual." " But surely, now, a man is just by that 
which and in the way we have so often" described." 
" That is altogether necessary." " Well then," said 
I, " has our idea of justice in any way lost the edge ^ 
of its contour so as to look like anything else than 
precisely what it showed itself to be in the state ? " 
" I think not," he said. " We might," I said, " com- 
pletely confirm your reply and our o\\ti con\iction 
thus, if anything in our minds still disputes our defini- 
tion — by applying commonplace and vulgar <= tests to 
it." " What are these ? " " For example, if an 
answer were demanded to the question concerning 
that city and the man whose birth and breeding was 
in harmony \nth it, whether we beUeve that such a 
man, entrusted with a deposit <* of gold or silver, would 
withhold it and embezzle it, who do you suppose 
would think that he would be more likely so to act 
than men of a different kind ? " " No one would," 
he said. ** And would not he be far removed from 
sacrilege and theft and betrayal of comrades in 
private hfe or of the state in public ? " " He would." 
" And, moreover, he would not be in any way faithless 
either in the keeping of his oaths or in other agree- 
ments." " How could he ? " " Adultery, surely, and 
neglect of parents and of the due ser\ice of the gods 
would pertain to anyone rather than to such a man." 
" To anyone indeed," he said. " And is not the cause 

law. *' Do this," inevitably follows. C/. Leslie Stephen, 
Science of Ethics, pp. 376 and 385, and Emerson, Self- 
Reliance : " But I may also neglect the reflex standard, 
and absolve me to myself ... If anyone imagines that this 
law is lax, let him keep its commandment one day." The 
Xenophontic Socrates (Xen. Mem. iv. 4. 10-11 and iv. 4. 17) 
relies on these vulgar tests. 

* C/. aupra on 332 a and Aristot Bhet. 1383 b 21. 



avTOV Tcov iv avra> eKaarov ra avrov TrpdrTci 
dpXV^ re Trepi Kai rov dpxecrdat; Tovto {xev ovv, 
Kal ovSev aAAo. "Ert tl ovv erepov ^rjrelg SLKaio- 
Gvvqv elvat t] Tavrrjv ttjv SuvajxtVy ^ Toys' tolov- 
Tovs dvSpas re vapexerai, /cat TroAet?; Md Ai'a, 
rj o OS, ovK eycoye. 

XVII. TeXeov dpa "qplv to evvTTvtov diroreTi- 
Aearai, o e^afxev VTroirrevaai , (x)S evdv? dp^opLevoi 
rrjs TToAeco? OLKil,etv Kara deov riva els dpxrjv re 

C Kal rvTTOv TLvd ttjs StKacoavvrjs KLvhvvevop.ev 
efi^e^rjKevaL. YlavraTraaL jxev ovv. To Se ye -^v 
dpa, J} YXavKCJv , hi o Kai (hcf>eXeT, eiBwXov tl rrjs 
BLKaioavvTjs, to tov p.ev aKVTOTopuKOv ^vaei opdcos 
e^eiv GKVTOTOjJielv Kal dXXo jxrjhev TTpdrreiv, rov 8e 
reKTOVLKov TeKTaiveaOai, Kal rdXXa 8rj ovtojs. 
OatVerat. To 8e ye aAi^^e? tocovto fxev tl ■^v, to? 

D eoLKev, Tj SiKaioavvT], dAA' ov Trepl ttjv e^o) Trpd^iv 
TOJv avTOV, dXXd Trepl ttjv evTOs d)s dXrjddJs Trepl 
eavTov Kal Ta eavTOV, pir] edaavTa ToXXoTpia 

'^ 6 . cf. supra on 434 d. 

* The contemplation of the etSuKov, image or symbol, 
leads us to the reality. The reality is always the Platonic 
Idea. The d5w\ov, in the case of ordinary *' things," is the 
material copy which men mistake for the reality (516 a). 
In the case of spiritual things and moral ideas, there is 
no visible image or symbol (Polit. 286 a), but imperfect 
analogies, popular definitions, suggestive phrases, as to. eavrov 
irpdiTTeiv, well-meant laws and institutions serve as the etduXa 
in which the philosophic dialectician may find a reflection 
of the true idea. Cff. on 520 c, Sophist 234 c, Theaetet. 
150 b. 

« Cf. Tim. 86 d, Laws 731 e, Apol. 23 a. The reality of 
justice as distinguished from the dSwKov, which in this case 
is merely the economic division of labour. Adam errs in 



of this to be found in the fact that each of the 
principles -within him does its owti work in the 
matter of ruhnor and beinor ruled ? " " Yes, that and 
nothing else." " Do you still, then, look for justice 
to be anything else than this potency which pro\-ides 
men and cities of this sort ? " " No, by heaven," 
he said, " I do not." 

XVII. " Finished, then, is our dream and perfected 
— the surmise we spoke of," that, by some Providence, 
at the ver}' beginning of our foundation of the state, 
we chanced to hit upon the original principle and a sort 
of type of justice." " Most assuredly." " It really 
was, it seems, Glaucon, which is why it helps,* a sort 
of adumbration of justice, this principle that it is right 
for the cobbler by nature to cobble and occupy him- 
self with nothing else, and the carpenter to practise 
carpentry, and similarly all others. But the truth of 
the matter*' was, as it seems, that justice is indeed 
something of this kind, yet not in regard to the doing 
of one's own business externally, but with regard to 
that which is within and in the true sense concerns 
one's self, and the things of one's self — it means that •* 

thinking that the real justice is justice in the soul, and the 
efSwXoi' is justice in the state. In the state too the division 
of labour may be taken in the lower or in the higher sense. 
Cf. supra on 370 a, Introd. p. xv. 

"* 1X7) edffavTa . . . do^av 444 a : cf. Gorgias 459 c, 462 c. 
A series of participles in implied indirect discourse expand 
the meaning of ttjv ivTo^ [irpa^iv), and enumerate the con- 
ditions precedent (resumed in oitw S-h 443 e; cf. Protag. 
325 a) of all action which is to be called just if it tends to 
preserve this inner harmony of soul, and the reverse if it 
tends to dissolve it. The subject of irp6.TT€iv is anybody or 
Everyman. For the general type of sentence and the Stoic 
principle that nothing imports but virtue cf. 591 e and 
618 c. 



TTpdrreLV eKaarov iv avrco fjirjSe TToXv7Tpay[j.ov€LV 
TTpos dXX-qXa rd iv rfj fffvxfj yivrj, dXXd rto 
ovTi rd OLKela ev deixe.vov /cat dp^avra avrov 
avTOV /cat Koap^-qaavra /cat ^iXov yevofxevov iavro) 
/cat ^vvapixoaavra rpia ovra ojairep opovs rpet? 
apfjLovLas drexvaJs vedrrjg re /cat VTrdr-qs xai 
E fiearjs, /cat et aAAa arra p-era^v rvyxdvei ovra, 
TTavTa ravra ^wSrjaavTa /cat TTavraTTaaiv iva 
yevofievov €/c ttoXXcov, Gco(f)pova /cat rjppocrpevov, 
OVTOJ Sr] TTpdrreiv tJStj, idv ti TTpdrTT) iq Trept 
XP'Qpdrwv KTTjaiv t) TTcpl acoparo? depairelav 'q /cat 
TToXiTLKov TL Tj 7T€pl rd iSta ^u/XjSoAaia, iv Tracri 
TovTois rjyovpevov /cat 6vopdl,ovTa St/catav pev 
Kal KaXrjv irpd^LV, rj dv ravT-qv rqv i^iv arco^T] re 
/cat ^vvairepydtpqrai, ao^iav 8e rriv irrLararovaav 
444 ravrj) rfj rrpd^ei iTnarrjprjv , dStKOV 8e Trpd^LV, 
7) dv del ravrrjv Xvr), dpadlav Se rr)v ravrrj av 

' Cf. supra on 433 e. 

* Cf. Gorg. 491 d where Callicles does not understand. 

<= Cf. Gorg. 504. 

•* Cf. infra 621 c and supra on 352 a. 

' The harmony of the three parts of the soul is compared 
to that of the three fundamental notes or strings in the 
octave, including any intervening tones, and so by implica- 
tion any faculties of the soul overlooked in the preceding 
classification. Cf. Plutarch, Plat. Quest. 9, Proclus, p. 230 
Kroll. wairep introduces the images, the exact application 
of which is pointed by drexvois. Cf. on 343 c. The scholiast 
tries to make two octaves {8U dia iraauiv) of it. The technical 
musical details have at the most an antiquarian interest, and 
in no way affect the thought, which is that of Shakespeare's 

For government, though high and low and lower. 
Put into parts, doth keep in one concent, 



a man must not suffer the principles in his soul to do 
each the work of some other and interfere and meddle 
with one another, but that he should dispose well of 
what in the true sense of the word is properly his own," 
and ha\ing first attained to self-mastery ** and beauti- 
ful order "= within himself,'' and ha\ing harmonized * 
these three principles, the notes or intervals of three 
terms quite hterally the lowest, the highest, and the 
mean, and all others there may be between them, 
and ha\ing linked and bound all three together and 
made of himself a unit,^ one man instead of many, 
self-controlled and in unison, he should then and then 
only turn to practice if he find aught to do either in the 
getting of wealth or the tendance of the body or it may 
be in pohtical action or private business, in all such 
doings beHe\ing and naming ^ the just and honour- 
able action to be that which preserves and helps to 
produce this condition of soul, and wisdom the science 
that presides over such conduct ; and beheving and 
naming the unjust action to be that which ever tends 
to overthrow this spiritual constitution, and brutish 

Congreeing in a full and natural close 

Like music. {Henry V. i. ii. 179.) 

Cf. Cicero, De Rep. ii. 42, and Milton {Reason of Church 
Government), " Discipline • . . which with her musical 
chords preserves and holds all the parts thereof together." 

' Cf. Epin. 992 b. The idea was claimed for the Pjili- 
agoreans; cf. Zeller i. i. p. 463, Guyau, Esquisse (Tunt 
Morale, p. 109 "La moralite n'est autre chose que l'unit6 
de I'etre." " The key to effective life is unity of life," says 
another modern rationalist. 

» ovofjid^ovTa betrays a consciousness that the ordinary 
meaning of words is somewhat forced for edification. Cf. 
Laws 864 a-b and Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 9, n. 21. 
Aristotle {Eth. Nic. 1138 b 6) would regard all this as mere 



eTTLaraTovaav So^av. YlavTaiTaaiv , rj S' 6s, co 
HcoKpares, dXrjOrj Aeyet?. Kiev, ■^v 8* iyo)' tov 
fiev SiKatov Kal dvSpa Kal ttoXlv Kal SLKaioavmjv, 
o Tvy)(dv€i, €v avrols 6v, el (f)aifjL€V €vpr]K€vat, ovk 
av irdvv ri, otfiat,, Bo^aifxev ipevSeadai,. Ma Ata 
ov jjievTOL, €(f)rj. ^coixev dpa; Oco/xcr. 

XVIII. "Earoj 817, ^v 8' iyo)' fxerd yap tovto 
aK€7TT€ov, olfxaL, dSiKLav. AijXov on. Ovkovv 

B oTdaiv TLvd av rpLwv ovroiv rovroiv 8et avrrjv 
€LvaL Kal TToXvTTpaypioavvrjv Kal aXXorpioTTpaypio- 
avvTjv Kal eTTavdaraaiv fxepov? tlvos to) oXco rrjs 
fpvxrjs, Lv' dpx'H €v avrfj ov TrpoarJKov, dXXd rot- 
ovTov ovros (f)va€i, otov TrpeTreiv avrcp SovXeveiv 
Tcp TOV apxi'Kov yevovg ovtl^ ; roiavr* drra, ot/xai, 
^T]uopL€v Kal rr]v tovtwv rapa^^v /cat TrXdvrjv 
CLvai T-qv T€ dSiKLav Kal dKoXaaiav Kal heiXiav Kal 
apLaQiav /cat ^vXXrj^hiqv Traaav KaKiav. Taura piev 

C ouv ravra, €(j)r]. Ovkovv, rju 8' iyco, Kal to dSiKa 
Ttpdrreiv /cat ro dhiKeZv /cat av ro 8t/cata TTOieZv, 
ravra irdvra rvyxdvei ovra KardS-qXa -qSr] aa<f)wg, 
€L7Tep Kal rj d8t/cta re Kal St/catocrwi] ; ITcSs' S17; 
On, rjv 8 eyco, rvyxdvei ovdev Siacfjepovra rcov 
vyteivdjv re Kal voaojSojv, d)s eKelva iv acopian, 

^ irp^ireiv . . . 6^71 is plainly the better reading. Burnet 
amends the additional ToO 5' a5 Soi/Xei^eivof several mss. to T<f) 5' 
ov dovXeijeiv, which might be justified by 358 a. 

' €Tn(TT-^fj.riv . . . do^av : a hint of a fundamental distinc- 
tion, not explicitly mentioned before in the Republic. Cf. 
Meno 97 b ff. and Unity of Plato's Thoxight, pp. 47-49. 
It is used here rhetorically to exalt justice and disparage 
injustice, afxadla is a very strong word, possibly used here 
already in the special Platonic sense : the ignorance that 
mistakes itself for knowledge. Cf. Sophist 229 c. 


ignorance, to be the opinion " that in turn presides * 
over this." "What you say is entirely true, Socrates." 
" Well," said I, "if we should affirm that we had 
found the just man and state and what justice really 
is " in them, I think we should not be much mis- 
taken " " No indeed, we should not," he said. 
" Shall we affirm it, then ? " " Let us so affirm." 

XVIII. " So be it, then," said I ; " next after this, I 
take it, we must consider injustice." " Ob\iously." 
" Must not this be a kind of ci\"il war** of these three 
principles, their meddlesomeness* and interference 
with one another's functions, and the revolt of one 
part against the whole of the soul that it may hold 
therein a rule which does not belong to it, since its 
nature is such that it befits it to serve as a slave to 
the ruling principle ? Something of this sort, I fancy, 
is what we shall say, and that the confusion of these 
principles and their straying from their proper course 
is injustice and licentiousness and cowardice and 
brutish ignorance and, in general,^ all tvu-pitude." 
" Precisely this," he replied. " Then," said I, " to 
act unjustly and be unjust and in turn to act justly — 
the meaning of all these terms becomes at once plain 
and clear, since injustice and justice are so." " How 
so ? " " Because," said I, " these are in the soul 
what" the healthful and thediseaseful are in the body ; 

' ixKTTOLTovffav : Isocrates would have used a synonym 
instead of repeating the word. 
' Cf. 337 B. 

* (iTaffLv : cf. 440 e. It is defined in Sophist 2-2S B. 
Aristotle would again regard this as mere metaphor. 

* xo\virpayfio<rvvr]v : supra 434 b and Isoc. viii. 39. 
' ^vWrj^driv : summing up, as in Phaedo 69 b. 

* lii iKflva: a proportion is thus usually stated in an- 
acoluthic apposition. 

VOL.1 2£ 417 


ravra iv iffvxfj- ^fji ^<^^- To, jxev ttov vyieiva 
vyUiav ifiTroLel, to. 8e voacoSr] voaov. Nat. 
OvKovv /cat TO ix€v StKata Trpdrreiv St/catocrui^v 

D e/XTTOiet, to S' aSt/ca aSt/ctav'; ^KvayK-q. "Ecrrt Se 
TO /Ltep' vyieiav TTOielv to, ev to) aajyuari Kara 
(f)V(jLv Kadiardvai, Kparelv re Kal Kpareladai utt' 
dXKr]Xci)v, TO Se voaov irapa <j)vaLV apx^iv re /cat 
apx^aOai oAAo utt' aAAou. "EaTi yap. Ou/cow 
av, €(f)rjv, TO SiKaLoavvqv epLTTOLelv to. iv ttj tpv)(TJ 
KaTO. (f)vaiv KadicrTavaL Kparelv t€ /cat TTpaTeZadai 
VTT* d?OiT]X(ov, TO Se aSt/ctav Trapd ^vaiv dp^eiv 
Te /cat dpxecrdai dXXo vtt aAAou; Ko/LtiS^, ^'0''?- 
*Ap€Tr] pi€v dpa, (hs colkcv, vyUid T€ tis dv etrj 

E Kal KdXXos /cat eue^ta t^vx^js, /ca/cta Se foaoj Te 
/cat atcrxos Kal dadeveia. "EaTtv ovtco. ^Ap* ovv 
ov Kal TO, fiev /caAct eTTLTrjSevjjiaTa els dpeTTJs kttj- 
aiv (f)epei,, Ta S aiaxpd eis Ka/cta?; AvdyKTj. 

XIX. To Brj XoiTTOV TJSr), co? eoLKev, rjfxtv earl 
(JKeipaadai,, noTcpov av AuotreAet St/catct Te irpdr- 
445 TetJ/ /cat /caAo. cTTtTi^Seuetv /cat eti^at St/cator, ear Te 
Xavddvrj idv Te pLTj tolovtos wv, •^ dSt/ceiv Te /cat 
aSt/cot" ett'at, eavnep fjir) StSoj 8iKr]v ixrjSe ^eXriojv 
yiyv7]TaL KoXaiC,6pLevos. AAA', e^^, a) HiOKpaTes, 

" The common-sense point of view, " fit fabricando faber." 
Cf. Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1 103 a 32. 

In Gorg. 460 b, Socrates argues the paradox that he who 
knows justice does it. Cf. Unity of Plato^s Thought, p. 11, 
n. 42. 

' Cf. the generalization of ^pws to include medicine and 
music in Symp. 186-187, and Tim. 82 a, Laws 906 c. Unity of 
Plato's Thought, n. 500. 

* The identification of virtue with spiritual health really, 
as Plato says (445 a), answers the main question of the 


there is no difference." " In what respect ? " he 
said. " Healthful things surely engender health" and 
diseaseful disease." "Yes." " Then does not doing 
just acts engender justice and unjust injustice ? " 
" Of necessity." " But to produce health is to 
establish the elements in a body in the natural 
relation gf dominating and being dominated ^ bv one 
another, while to cause disease is to bring it about 
that one rules or is ruled by the other contrary to 
nature." " Yes, that is so." " And is it not like- 
wise the production of justice in the soul to establish 
its principles in the natural relation of controlling 
and being controlled by one another, while injustice 
is to cause the one to rule or be ruled by the other 
contrary to nature ? " " Exactly so," he said. 
" Mrtue, then, as it seems, would be a kind of health" 
and beauty and good condition of the soul, and \ice 
would be disease,** ugliness, and weakness." "It is 
so." "Then is it not also true that beautiful and 
honourable pursuits tend to the winning of virtue 
and the ugly to \'ice ? " " Of necessit}-." 

XIX. " And now at last, it seems, it remains for us 
to consider whether it is profitable to do justice and 
practise honourable pursuits and be just, whether* one 
is known to be such or not, or whether injustice 
profits, and to be unjust, if only a man escape punish- 
ment and is not bettered by chastisement.' " " Nav, 

Republic. It is not explicitly used as one of the three final 
arguments in the ninth book, but is implied in 591 b. It is 
found "already " in Crito 47 d-e. Cf. Gorg. 479 b. 

* KaKia . . . oto-xoj : Sophist 22S E distinguishes two forms 
of KaKia : ytxros or moral evil, and ignorance or oio-xos. C/. 
Oorg. 477 b. 

* iiv re . . . iav re : cf. supra 337 c, 367 e, 427 d, 429 E. 
' Cf. Gorg. 512 a-b, and supra on 380 b. 



yeAolov e/xoiye (f)aLV€Tat. to oKefifia yiyveaOai TJhr], 
et Tov fjiev (TiofjLaTos rrjs (f>va€a)s Siacfideipofxdvrjs 
ooK€L ov ^lOiTov elvai ov8e /xera ttolvtcdv airicov re 
/cat 7TOTCOV /cat Travros ttXovtov /cat Trdarjg o.px^S, 
TTJs oe avTov tovtov (L ^ivfjiev (j>vae(x)s rapar- 

B TOixevTjs /cat 8i,a(f)6eLpoiJ.€vr]s ^lcotov dpa ecrrai, 
eavTTcp ris ttoitj o dv ^ovXrjdfj aAAo ttXtjv tovto, 
OTTodev /caKta? fxev /cat aStKrta? aTraAAayTJcreTat, 
oi/catoawT^v 8e Kat dperrfv KT-qaerac, CTretSi^Trep 
€(j}dvri ye ovra eKdrepa ola rjfxels BieXrjXvdajJiev. 
leXolov ydp, -^v S' eyoj* aAA' opicos cTretVep 
evravda eXrjXvdapiev, daov olov re o-a^eaTara 
/cartSeti' ort ravra ovtcos ^x^t, ov XPV dTTOKdpLveiv. 
"H/ctcrra ri) ror Ata, e^"??, Trdvrcov d7TOKp.rjT€OV. 

^ Aevpo vvv, rjv 8' eyco, tv'a /cat iSt^?, oaa /cat etSr) 
ex^i' yj /ca/cta, cu? e/xot 8o/cet, a ye 8t] /cat al'ta Oeas. 
"EiTTOfjiai, €(f)rj- pLovov Xeye. Kat /-ti^i', •^i' 8' eyw, 
wairep diro aKovcds p,oi ^atVerai, €7T€LSrj ivravda 
dva^e^rjKapev rov Xoyov, ev p-kv etrat etSo? r^? 

" C/. 456 D. On the following argumentum ex contrario 
cf. supra on 336 e. 

» C/. on 353 D and Aristot. De an. 414 a 12 ff. C/. 
Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 41. 

" Cf. 577 D, Gorg. 466 e. If all men desire the good, he 
who does evil does not do what he really wishes. 

^ oaov . . . Karidelv is generally taken as epexegetic of 
ipTavda. It is rather felt with oii xpV d,TroKdfj.i>eiv. 

' Cf. Apol. 25 c. 

f &y€ df) Kai d^La d^as : for Kai cf. Soph. 223 a, 229 D, Tim. 
83 c, Polit. 285 b, and infra 544 a, c-d. By the strict 
theory of ideas any distinction may mark a class, and so 
constitute an idea. (Cf. De Platonis Idearum JDoctrina, 
pp. 22-25.) But Plato's logical practice recognizes that 



Socrates," he said, " I think that from this point on 
our inquiry becomes an absurdity " — if, while life is 
admittedly intolerable \^'ith a ruined constitution of 
body even though accompanied by all the food and 
drink and wealth and power in the world, we are 
yet to be asked to suppose that, when the very nature 
and constitution of that whereby we Uve '' is disordered 
and corrupted, hfe is going to be worth hWng, if a 
man can only do as he pleases,*^ and pleases to do any- 
thing save that which ^^^ll rid him of evil and injustice 
and make him possessed of justice and virtue — now 
that the two have been shown to be as we have 
described them." " Yes, it is absurd," said I ; " but 
nevertheless, now that we have won to this height, 
we must not grow weary in endeavouring to discover •* 
with the utmost possible clearness that these things 
are so." " That is the last thing in the world we 
must do," he said. " Come up here* then," said I, 
" that you may see how many are the kinds of evil, 
I mean those that it is worth while to observe and 
distinguish.^ " "I am with you," he said ; " only do 
you say on." " And truly," said I, " now that we 
have come to this height ' of argument I seem to see 

only typical or relevant " Ideas " are worth naming or 
considering. The Republic does not raise the metaphysical 
question how a true idea is to be distinguished from a part 
or from a partial or casual concept. Cf. Unity of Plato's 
Thought, pp. 52-53, n. 381, Polit. 26S a-b. 

' Cf. 588 B, Emerson, NoTninalist and Realist, ii. p. 256 ; 
" We like to come to a height of land and see the landscape, 
just as we value a general remark in conversation." Cf. 
Lowell, Democracy, Prose Works, vi. 8 : " He who has 
mounted the tower of Plato to look abroad from it will 
never hope to climb another with so lofty a vantage of 
speculation." From this and 517 a-b, the ava^aais b«arae 
a technical or cant term in Neoplatonism. 



apeTTJs, arreipa Se rrjs Ka/ciaj, rerrapa S' ev 
avTols arra cov Kal d^iov iTTifXvqodfjvaL. Hois 
Aeyetj; ^(f>'^- "OaoL, rjv 8' iyo), TToXirei-cov rpoTTOi 
€Lcnv €i,8rj €)(ovT€s, ToaovToi KivSvvevovcTL Kai 

D tpuxrjs rpoTTOL elvai. Yioaoi 817; ITeVre fxiv, riv 
8' eyoi, TToXi,T€ia)V, irevTe Se ipv^rj^. Aeye, €(/)rj, 
TiV€s. Aeyu), ciTTov, oTi et? jxev ovTog ov rjfjieXs 
OLeXr)XvdaiJi€v TToXireias etrj av rpoTTOS, irrovo- 
fxaadeirj 8' av Kal ^t-xfj' €yy€vop,€vov p-kv yap 
avhpos ivos iv rols ap-)(ovaL hia(f>€povros ^aaiXeia 
av KXrfdeiri, TrXetovoiv 8e dptaroKpaTLa. ^AXrjdrj, 
e<p7^. TovTo p,kv roivvv, rjv 8' eyo), ev ethos Xeyo)' 

E ovre yap av irXeiovg ovt€ els iyyevopevos KLvq- 
a€L€v av Tojv d^icxiv Xoyov v6p.a)v tt]s 7ToXea)s, 
Tpo(f)fj re Kal rraiBeia xprjcdp.evos, fj SLijXdop,ev. 
Ov yap €lk6s, ^(f>^- 

" iv fxiv, etc. : perhaps a faint reminiscence of the line 
iadXol fxiv yap aTrXcDs, TravTo8airu)s 5t KaKoi, 
quoted by Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1 106 b 35. It suggests Plato's 
principle of the unity of virtue, as dwetpa below suggests 
the logical doctrine of the Phileh. 16 and Parmen. 145 a, 
158 B-c that the other of the definite idea is the indefinite and 

* The true state is that in which knowledge governs. It 
may be named indifi'erently monarchy, or aristocracy, accord- 
ing as such knowledge happens to be found in one or more 
than one. It can never be the possession of many. Cf. 
infra 494 a. The inconsistencies which some critics have 



as from a point of outlook that there is one form " of 
excellence, a)id that the forms of evil are infinite, 
yet that there are some four among them that it is 
worth while to take note of." " What do you mean?" 
he said. " As many as are the varieties of political 
constitutions that constitute specific types, so many, 
it seems likely, are the characters of soul." " How 
many, pray ? " " There are five kinds of constitu- 
tions," said I, " and five kinds of soul." " Tell me 
what they are," he said. " I tell you," said I, " that 
one way of government would be the constitution 
that we have just expounded, but the names that 
might be applied to it are two.* If one man of sur- 
passing merit rose among the rulers, it would be 
denominated royalty ; if more than one, aristocracy." 
" True," he said. " Well, then," I said, " this is one 
of the forms I have in mind. For neither would a 
number of such men, nor one if he arose among them, 
alter to any extent worth mentioning the laws of 
our city — if he preserved the breeding and the educa- 
tion that we have described." "It is not Ukely," 
he said. 

found between this statement and other parts of the Republic, 
are imaginary. Hitherto the Republic has contemplated a 
plurality of rulers, and such is its scheme to the end. But 
we are explicitly warned in 540 d and 587 d that this is 
a matter of indifference. It is idle then to argue with 
Immisch, Krohn, and others that the passage marks a 
sudden, violent alteration of the original design. 



I. ^Ayadrjv fxev rotvvv rrjv roiavTrjv ttoXiv t€ /cat 
TToXireiav /cat 6pdr)v KaXcb, /cat dvhpa rov toiovtov 
/ca/cd? 8e ras aAAa? /cat rjixaprrjiMevas, etVep avTT] 
opdrj, 7T€pi T€ TToXecov Stot/CT^crets' /cat vepl IdicoTcov 
fpvxyjs rpoTTOV KaracKev-qv, iv rerrapai irov-qpcas 
etSeaiv ovaag. nota? 817 ravras; ^j>f]- koL iyo) 
fxev fja ras i(f)€^rjs ipcov, a)s />tot e^aivovro eKaarai 
B e^ aXXrjXcov jxera^aiveiv 6 Se YloXeixapxos — 
GfiLKpov yap aTTCorepoj rov 'ASet/xavrou Kadrjaro — 
CKTeivas ttjv X^^P^ '^^^ Xa^ofxevos rov [{xariov avcx}- 
uev avTov 77apd rov a>p,ov eKelvov re Trpoo'^yayero 
/cat TTporelvas iavrov eXeyev drra TrpoaKeKVcfxvs, 
cov ctAAo fjL€v ovSev KarrjKovaafxev, roSe Se' 
A(f>'qaofX€v odv, €(f)rj, ^ ri Spdaofiev ; "H/cto-ra 
ye, e(f>7] 6 'ASet/xavTO? fieya tJSt] Xeycov. /cat 
eyw, Tt fidXiara, €(f)7]v, vfxels ovk d^iere; 2e, 

" Cf. on 427 E, and Newman, Introd. to Aristot. Pol. p. 14 ; 
for 6pdi}f "normal," see p. 423. 

* KaTaffKevrjv : a highly general word not to be pressed in 
this periphrasis. Cf. Gorg. 455 e, 477 b. 

' Cf. 562 c, Theaetet. 180 c. Stein on Herod, i. 5. For the 
transition here to the digression of books V., VI., and VII. 
cf. Introd. p. xvii, Phaedo 84c. "Digression" need not 
imply that these books were not a part of the original 


I. " To such a city, then, or constitution I apply the 
terms good" and right — and to the corresponding kind 
of man ; but the others I describe as bad and mis- 
taken, if this one is right, in respect both to the 
administration of states and to the formation' of 
the character of the indi\idual soul, they falling under 
four forms of badness." " What are these," he said. 
And I was going on" to enumerate them in what 
seemed to me the order of their evolution "* from one 
another, when Polemarchus — he sat at some little 
distance « from Adeimantus — stretched forth his hand, 
and, taking hold of his garment ^ from above by the 
shoulder, drew the other toward him and, leaning 
forward himself, spoke a few words in his ear, of 
which we overheard nothing" else save only this, 
" Shall we let him off,'' then," he said, " or what shall 
we do?" "By no means," said Adeimantus, now 
raising his voice.^ " What, pray," » said I, " is it that 
you are not letting off? " " You," said he. " And 

* fiera^aiveiv i the word is half technical. Cf, 547 c, 
550 D, Latcs 676 a, 736 d-e, 894 a. 

* dirwre'pw absolutely. Cf. Cratinus 229 Kock 6voi KaBrjvTat. 
Tri% Xi'pas dirwr^pw. 

f Cf. 327 B. " Cf. 359 e. » Cf. on 327 c. 

* Cf. 337 D, 343 B, 421 c, 612 c. Laches 188 "e, Meno 80 b. 
There is a play on the double meaning, " What, pray?" and 
"Why, pray?" 



Q T] o 05. "On, iyd) emov, rl ^dXiara; ^Arrop- 
padvixelv rjfuv So/cet?, ecfirj, /cat etSos- oXov ov to 
eAa)(iaTOV eKKXeTrreiv rov Xoyov, Iva (jltj Ste'A^r^s", 
/cat Xn^aetv olrjdrjvaL elvajv avro (j)avXa)S, cos apa 
Trepi yvvaiKcbv re /cat rraihcov Travrl BrjXov, OTi 
Koiva TO. (f)LXcov earai. Ovkovv opduis, ^(jyrjv, c5 
ABeifxavre ; Nat, rj 8' og- dXXa to 6pdd>s tovto, 
coijTrep TaXXa, Xoyov Setxat, ti's o rpoTTO? rrjs 
KOLvojvias' TToXXol ydp dv yevotvro. firj ovv Trapfjs 
D ovTiva av Xlyeis. a>S" rjiJuets TraAat Trepnxivop.€v 
Oiop.evoL oi 7TOV jjivqadiqaeadai, TratSoTTOtta? re rrepL, 
7TCOS TTaiSoTTOL-qaovTaf,, /cat yevojxevovs ttcos dpi- 
ipovcn, /cat oX'qv ravrrjv rjv Xeyets Kotvoiviav 
yvvaiKcov re /cat TTaiScov jjueya ydp tl olojjieda 
(f>€peiv /cat oAov et? TToXiTeiav opdojs ^ ixrj opddJs 
ytyvofxevov. vvv ovv eTreiSr} dXXr)s einXafx^dveL 
TToXireias irplv ravra LKavdJs SteXeadai, SeSo/CTat 
450 rjijuv TOVTO, o av -rJKOvaas, to ae fir] ixedievaL, 
irpiv dv TavTa ndvTa oiairep TaAAa BUXdrjs. Kat 
e/xe TOLVvv, 6 TXavKcov e(j)r], Koivoivov ttjs i/ri^i^ou 
TavTrjs TcOeTe. 'A/xe'Aet, e(j)7] 6 Qpaavfxaxos, Trdai 
TavTa SeSoyjxeva rjjjilv i^djixt^e, w Sco/cpaTej- 

II. Otoi^, rjv 8' iyu), elpydaaade emXa^opievoL 

« Of. Soph, Track. 437. " So Isoc. xv, 74 SXois erSeo-t. 

' C/. 4:24 A, Laws 739 c. Aristotle says that the posses- 
sions of friends should be separate in ownership but common 
in use, as at Sparta. Cf. Newman, Introd. to Aristot. Pol. 
p. 201, Epicurus in Diog. Laert. x. 11, Aristot. Pol. 1263 a 
30 if., Eurip. Androm. 270. 

■* Cf. 459 D, Laws 668 d, Aristot. Pol. 1369 b 13, Shakes. 
Tro. and Ores. i. i. 23 " But here's yet in the word hereafter 
the kneading, the making of the cake," etc. 

" Cf. Laics 665 b 7. 

f Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1264 a 13. 



for what special reason, pray? " said I. " We think 
you are a slacker," he said, " and are trying to cheat" 
us out of a whole division,** and that not the least, of 
the argument to avoid the trouble of expounding it, 
and expect to ' get away with it ' by observing thus 
lightly that, of course, in respect to women and 
children it is ob\'ious to everybody that the posses- 
sions of friends will be in common.'^ " " Well, isn't 
that right, Adeimantus ? " I said. " Yes," said he, 
" but this word ' right,' ** like other things, requires 
defining « as to the way ^ and manner of such a com- 
munity. There might be many ways. Don't, then, 
pass over the one that you^ have in mind. For we 
have long been lying in wait for you, expecting that 
you would say something both of the procreation of 
children and their bringing up,* and would explain 
the whole matter of the community of women and 
children of which you speak. We think that the 
right or wTong management of this makes a great 
difference, all the difference in the world,* in the 
constitution of a state ; so now, since you are begin- 
ning on another constitution before sufficiently defin- 
ing this, we are firmly resolved, as you overheard, not 
to let you go till you have expounded all this as fully 
as you did the rest." " Set me dowTi, too," said 
Glaucon, " as voting this ticket.' " " Surely," said 
Thrasymachus, " you may consider it a joint resolu- 
tion of us all, Socrates." 

II. " What a thing you have done," said I, " in thus 

» Emphatic. Cf. 427 e. 

* -^ivouAvox.^ : a noun is supplied from tlie preceding verb. 
Cf. on 598 c, and supra on 341 d. 

* fiiya ... /cat iiXov : cf. 469 c, 527 c, Phaedo 79 e. Laws 
779 B, 944 c Symp. 188 d, Demosth. ii. 22, Aescfivl. Prom, 
961. * Cf. Protag. 330 c 



fxov. oaov \6yov ttolXlv wajrep i^ ^PXV^ Kivelr^ 
7T€pl rrjs TroAiTeta?/ 7]^ cos TJbrj SteXrjXvdoJS eytoye 
e^aipov ayaTTchv, et ns eaaoi ravra o.TToSe^a/xev'os 

B (vs Tore ipp'qdr]- a vvv voxels TrapaKaXovvres ovk 
tare oaov iafxov Xoycov irreyeipeTe- ov opojv eyco 
TTaprJKa Tore, pur] rrapdaxoi ttoXvv oxXov. Tt oe; 
^ 8' o? d Qpacrvp^axos' XP^^^X^V^^^'^'^^ °''^'' 
rovcrSe vvv ivOdSe d<l>lxQo.i, dXX ov Xoyoiv aKovoo- 
pbivovs; Nat, eiTTOv, /xerpicur ye. ^slerpov Se y , 
€(f)rj, u) HivKpares, 6 TXavKcov, tolovtojv Xoycov 
aKoveLv 'oXos 6 ^ios vovv exovatv. dXXd to puev 
rjjxdTepov ea- av 8e Trepl iov ipo}Ta)p,€v pLrjSaixaJs 

C dTTOKdjJLrjs f) croL boKeZ hie^iatv, tls tj KOLVcovia Tolg 
(f)vXa^LV -qplv rralScuv re Tzepi /cat yvvaLKoJv eo-rac 
/cat Tpodiri'S vecov eVt ovtojv, Trjs ev to) jMeragu 
Xpovcp yiyvojxeviqs yeveaeojs re /cat Traioetas', r] or) 
€7n7TOV(x)rdTr] SoKet eirat. TTeipcb ovv enreZv ni'a 
TpoTTOV Set yiyvead ai auxTjv'. Ov pdBiov, a> 
evhaip^ov, ^v 8' eycu, SteA^etf • TToXXds yap amoTLas 
ex^i eVt pidXXov TiJov efXTrpoadev ihv dfqXdop.ev. /cat 
yap (hs SvvaTa Xeyerai, aTnaTOLT av, /cat et o ti 
pidXiOTa yevoiTO, to? dpiaT dv etTj raura, /cat 

D TavTT) aTTtcTTTjo-eTat. 8t6 817 /cat o/cvo? rt? avTcbv 

» C/. Theaetet. 184 c, (?or<7. 469 c. 

* For the metaphor c/. Eurip. Bacchae 710 and (tutjvos. 
Rep. 574 D, Cra^yL 401 c, Meno 72 a. 

" Cf. Phileb. 36 d, Theaetet. 184 a, Cra/yL 411a. 

<* Thrasymachus speaks here for the last time. He is 
mentioned in 357 a, 358 b-c, 498 c, 545 b, 590 d. 

« Lit. "to smelt ore." The expression was proverbial 
and was explained by an obscure anecdote. C/. Leutsch, 
Paroemioffraphi, ii. pp. 91, 727, and i. p. 464, and com- 
mentators on Herod, iii. 102. 

^ Plato often anticipates and repels the charge of tedious 



challenging " me I What a huge debate you have 
started afresh, as it were, about this polity, in the 
supposed completion of which I was rejoicing, being 
only too glad to have it accepted as I then set it 
forth I You don't realize what a swarm '' of arguments 
you are stirring up ' by this demand, which I foresaw 
and evaded to save us no end of trouble." " Well," 
said ThrasjTnachus,'* " do you suppose this company 
has come here to prospect for gold ^ and not to hsten 
to discussions ? " " Yes," I said, " in measure." 
" Nay, Socrates," said Glaucon, "the measure^ of 
listening to such discussions is the whole of life for 
reasonable men. So don't consider us, and do not 
you yourself grow wear^" in explaining to us what we 
ask for, your \iews as to how this communion of \\ives 
and children among our guardians will be naanaged, 
and also about the rearing of the children while still 
young in the interval between' birth and formal 
schoohng which is thought to be the most difficult 
part of education. Try, then, to tell us what must 
be the manner of it." " It is not an easy thing to 
expound, my dear fellow," said I, " for even more 
than the pro\isions that precede it, it raises many 
doubts. For one might doubt whether what is pro- 
posed is possible'' and, even conceding the possibility,* 
one might still be sceptical whether it is best. For 
which reason one, as it were, shrinks from touching 

length (see Polit. 286 c, PhiUb. 28 d, 36 d). Here the 
thought takes a different turn (as 504 c). The 5^ -/e implies 
a slight rebuke {rf. Class. Phil. xiv. pp. 165-174). 

' So 498 A. Cf. on Aristoph. Acharn. 434, and Laws 792 a. 

* Cf. 456 c, Thucyd. vi. 98, Introd. xvii. 

' do Ti /idXicTTa : a common formula for what a disputant 
can afford to concede. Cf. Lysias xiii. 52, xxii. 1, xxiL 10. 
It occurs six times in the Charmides. 



diTTeaOai, [xrj evx'fj ^oktj elvai. 6 X6yo$, a» ^lAc 
eratpe. mrjoev, rj o os, OKVcr ovre yap ayvco- 
ixoves ovT€ aTTCcrroL ovre Svavoi ol aKovaofxcvoi. 
/cat eyo) enrov 'Q. apiare, rj rrov ^ovXafievos p.c 
TTapadappvveiv Aeyets'; "Eycoy', €cf)r]. Yldv roivvv, 
"qv 8' eyd), rovvavriov ttolcls. Tnarevovro? [xev yap 
efjLov ip,OL etSeVat a Xdyco, KaXcbs ^Ix^v rj irapa- 
E p.vdia' iv yap <j>povipioig re Koi ^iXois rrepl tojv 
fxeyicTTCov re Kal (J)lXo)v TaXrjdrj et'Sora Xeyeiv 
aa(f>aX€s Kal dappaXeov aTnarovvra Se /cat t^rj- 
Tovvra a/xa tovs Xoyovs TTOLetadai, o Brj eycb Spcj, 
451 (f)o^€p6v re /cat acftaXepov, ov tl yeXcora 6(f>X€Zv 
TTatSiKov yap rovro ye' aAAd fXTj a(f>aXel'5 rrjs 
dXrjdeias ov fxovov avros dXXd /cat rovs (f>iXovs 
^vveTTLairaaapLevos Keiao/JLai rrepi a rjKtora Set 
a(f)dXXea6aL. TrpoaKvvo) 8e ASpaareiav', cb FAau- 
Kojv, x^P''^ o^ jLteAAo) Xeyetv eXTrit^oi yap ovv eXar- 
Tov dfJLdpTr)p.a aKovaiois rtvo? cf)OV€a yeveadai rj 
dTTaredJva KaXojv re Kal dyadcov Kal St-Kalajv 
vofiCfxaiv 776/31. rovro ovv ro KivSvvevfia KivBv- 

* Cf. Introd. xxxi-xxxii, infra 456 c, 499 c, 540 d. 
Laws 736 d, Aristot. Pol. 1260 b 29, 1265 a 17 deX /xef otv 
inroTideadai /car' evxv^t fJ-V^^" )^i''TOi dbi'varov. 

* d7J'a!/xo»'es::= inconsiderate, unreasonable, as Andoc. ii. 6 

* Cf. on 452 c-D, Euthydem. 3 c " To be laughed at is no 
matter," Laws 830 b tov tCov avo-fjTwv yiXwra, Eurip. 
fr. 495. 

<* 'A5 pdffTeiaf : practically equivalent to Nemesis. Cf. 
our "knock on wood." Cf. Posnansky in Breslauer Phil, 


on the matter lest the theory be regarded as nothing 
but a ' wish-thought,' <* my dear friend." " Do not 
shrink," he said, " for your hearers will not be incon- 
siderate* nor distrustful nor hostile." And I said, 
' ' My good fellow , is that remark intended to encourage 
me?" "It is," he said. "Well then," said I, "it 
has just the contrary effect. For, if I were confident 
that I was speaking with knowledge, it would be an 
excellent encouragement. For there is both safety 
and boldness in speaking the truth with knowledge 
about our greatest and dearest concerns to those 
who are both wise and dear. But to speak when one 
doubts himself and is seeking while he talks, as I am 
doing, is a fearful and slippery venture. The fear is 
not of being laughed at,'' for that is childish, but, lest, 
missing the truth, I fall down and drag my friends 
with me in matters where it most imports not to 
stumble. So I salute NemesiSj'^Glaucon, in what I am 
about to say. For, indeed,* I believe that involun- 
tary homicide is a lesser fault than to mislead opinion 
about the honourable, the good, and the just. This 
is a risk that it is better to run with enemies ^ than 

Abhandl. v. 2, " Nemesis und Adrasteia " : Herod, i. 35, 
Aeschyl. Prom. 936, Eurip. Rhesus 342, Demosth. xxv. 37 
Kai 'ASpdcrretai' fj-iv avdportroi wv ^70; irpocKvvCi. For the moral 
earnestness of what follows cf. 336 e, Gorg. 458 a, and 
Joubert apud Arnold, Essays in Crit. p. 29 *' Ignorance . . . 
is in itself in intellectual matters a crime of the first order." 

• yixp of'v, "for in fact," but often with the suggestion that 
the fact has to be faced, as e.g. in Tim. 47 e, where the point 
is often missed. 

' Almost proverbial. Cf. vny note on Horace, Odes 
iii. 27. 21. Plato is speaking here from the point of view of 
the ordinary man, and not from that of his *' Sermon on the 
Mount ethics." Cf. Phileb. 49 d and Gorg. 480 e, where 
Gomperz, Greek Thinkers, ii. pp. 332 and 350, goes astray. 
Cf. Class. Phil. vol. i. p. 297. 



B veveiv iv exSpolg Kpelrrov rj ^tAoi?, (Zare ov^ fie 
TTapajJivdeX. /cat o TXavKCJV yeXdaas 'AAA', c5 
TicoKpareg, €(f)r], idv ri Trddcofxeu TrAT^/ijueAes' vtto 
rod Xoyov, d(f)Lep,€v ae wairep (f)6vov Kal Kadapov 
€Lvat /cat [17] aTTaTecJbva rjjjicbv dXXd dappiqaas Aeye. 
AAAa jxevTOi, elrrov, Kadapos ye /cat e/cet o d(f)edeig, 
(xiS o vojxos XeyeL- et/cos" Se ye, e'lTrep eKel, KavddSe. 
Aeye tolvvv, e(f>r], rovrov y* eveKa. Keyeiv hr\, 
€(j)rjv eyu), XPV dvdTraXcv av vvv, d Tore taojs eSet 
C e<j>e^rjq Xeyeiv rd^a he ovrcjs dv opddjs exoi, [lerd 
avSpelov SpdjjLa rtavreXdjs hiaTtepavdev ro yvvai- 
Kelov av TTepaiveiv, dXXois re /cat eTreiSr] av ovrco 

III. ^AvdpcoTTOLs ydp (f)vaL /cat TraiSevdetaLv d)s 
rjpLets hL'qXQojxev, /car' epLrjv ho^av ovk ear dXXrj 
opdrj TTaihcov re /cat yvvaiKcov Kr-fjals re /cat XP^^^ 
rj /car' eKeiv7]v rrjv op/jLrjv lovaiv, rjvTrep ro TrpoJrov 
(hpixriaapLev eTTex^i-prjaapLev he ttov dig dyeXrjs 
(f>vXaKas rovs dvhpas KaOiardvai rep Xoyo). Nat. 
D ^AKoXovdwfxev roLvvv /cat rrjv yeveaiv /cat rpo(f)rjv 
TTapairXriaiav dTTohihovres , /cat aKOTraJfiev, ei T]p.iv 
TTpeTTeL ri ov. ncus"; €(f)r]. ^QSe. rds ^T^Aeta? 
rdJv (fivXdKcov KvvdJv TTorepa ^vfi(f)vXdrrei.v ol6p.eda 
heZv, direp dv ol dppeve? (f>vXdrrcoaL, /cat ^vv- 
drjpeveiv /cat xaAAa KOivfj rrpdrreiv, r) rds fiev 

^ oS Hermann : mss. ovk ed and e5, which would be ironical. 
Adam is mistaken in supposing that Glaucon laughs at 
the irony. 

" Cbairep marks the legal metaphor to which iKel below 
refers. Cf. Laws 869 e, and Eurip. Hippol. 1433 and 1448- 
1450, withHirzel, AtKT/etc. p. 191, n. 1, Demosth. xxxvii. 58-59. 
Plato transfers the idea to the other world in Phaedo 114 a-b, 
where the pardon of their victims is required for the release 


with friends, so that your encouragement is none." 
And Glaucon, with a laugh, said, " Nay, Socrates, if 
any false note in the argument does us any harm, we 
release you as " in a homicide case, and warrant you 
pure of hand and no deceiver of us. So speak on 
with confidence." " Well," said I, " he who is 
released in that case is counted pure as the law 
bids, and, presumably, if there, here too." " Speak 
on, then," he said, " for all this objection." " We 
must return then," said I, " and say now what 
perhaps ought to have been said in due sequence 
there. But maybe this way is right, that after the 
completion of the male drama we should in turn go 
through with the female,* especially since you are so 

III. " Formen,then,born and bred as we described, 
there is in my opinion no other right possession and 
use of children and women than that which accords 
with the start we gave them. Our endeavour, I 
beheve, was to estabhsh these men in our discourse 
as the guardians of a flock '^ ? " " Yes." " Let us 
preserve the analogy, then, and assign them a 
generation and breeding answering to it, and see if 
it suits us or not." " In what way ? " he said. " In 
this. Do we expect the females of watch-dogs to join 
in guarding what the males guard and to hunt with 
them and share all their pursuits or do we expect the 

of sinners. The passage is used by the older critics in the 
comparison of Plato with Christianity. 

* Sophron's Mimes are said to have been so classified. 
For Spdfia cf. also Theaetet. 150 a. 

" For the use of analogies drawn from animals cf. 375-376, 
\22 D, 466 D. 467 b, 491 d-e, 537 a, 546 a-b, 564 a'. Plato is 
only pretending to deduce his conclusions from his imagery. 
Aristotle's literal-minded criticism objects that animals have 
no "economy," Pol. 1264 b 4-6. 

VOL. I ^ F 433 


OLKovpeTv €vSov CO? dBwdrovs 8ia tov twv aKvXd- 
Kcov roKov T€ Kal Tpo(f)'qv, Tovs 8e novelv re /fat 
Trdaav eTTLfieXeiav ^X^'-^ irepl to. TTolfivLa; Koiriy, 
E e(pr], TTavra- ttXtjv d>s dodevearepais ^^pctj^e^a, rots' 
oe a*? la-)(yporlpoLs. Olov r* ovv, €(f)r]v iyco, cttl 
Ttt avrd XPV^^^^ '^''^'' ^^V> ^^ l^V '^^ avr7]v 
rpo(f>'qv re Kal TraiSeLav aTToStSws ; Ovx otov re. 
Et dpa rats yvvai^lv inl ravrd ;^/37^CTOjU.e^a koL 
452 rots dvSpdcri, Tavrd /cat StSa/creov auras'. Nat. 
MovaiKT] fiev^ iKctvoLs re /cat yvfMvaaTLKrj iSodrj. 
Nat. Kat rats ywat^tr apa tovtco tco rexvo- xal 
Ttt nepi TOV TroXepiov dTToSoreov Kal ;(p7^CTreov fcarct 
Tavrd. Et/cos e^ ojv Aeyets, e^^. "lo-ws 8''?, 
elnov, TTapd ro edos yeXoZa dv ^aivoiro rroXXd irepi 
ra vvv Xeyofxeva, el Trpd^erai fj Xeyerai. Kat 
fidXa, e^Tj. Ti, rfv S' eyw, yeXoiorarov avrcov 
opas; T] SrjXa Sr] on yvfivds rag yvvaiKag iv rats 
B TTaXaiarpaLS yy/xva^o/xeVas jLtera rcbv dvSpoJv, ov 
fiovov rds veas, dXXd /cat 17817 ras Trpea^vrepas, 
loavep rovs yepovras iv rots yv/xvaoLOLs, orav 
pvaol Kal fXTj rjSeZs rrjv oi/jlv opaog ^iXoyvpLva- 
arcoaiv; ^t] tov Aia, 6^77" yeXoiov yap dv, c5s ye 
^ M^j*] Richards' conjecture /xriv is attractive. 

" Reformers always denounce this source of wit while 
conservative satirists maintain that ridicule is a test of truth. 
Cf. e.g. Renan, Avenir de la Science, p. 439 " Le premier 
pas dans la carriere philosophique est de se cuirasser centre 
le ridicule," and Lucian, Piscator 14 "No harm can be 
done by a joke ; that on the contrary, whatever is beautiful 
shines brighter . . . like gold cleansed," Harmon in Loeb 
translation, iii. 23. There was a literature for and against 



females to stay indoors as being incapacitated by the 
bearing and the breeding of the whelps while the 
males toil and have all the care of the flock ? " " They 
have all things in common," he replied, " except that 
we treat the females as weaker and the males as 
stronger." " Is it possible, then," said I, " to employ 
any creature for the same ends as another if you 
do not assign it the same nurture and education ? " 
" It is not possible." " If, then, we are to use 
the women for the same things as the men, we must 
also teach them the same things." " Yes." " Now 
music together with g\Tnnastic was the training we 
gave the men." "Yes." " Then we must assign 
these two arts to the women also and the offices of 
war and employ them in the same way." " It would 
seem likely from what you say," he replied. " Per- 
haps, then," said I, " the contrast with present 
custom " would make much in our proposals look 
ridiculous if our words ^ are to be realized in fact." 
" Yes, indeed," he said. " What then," said I, " is 
the funniest thing you note in them ? Is it not 
obviously the women exercising unclad in the 
palestra together with the men, not only the young, 
but even the older, like old men in gvmnasiums,^ 
when, though wTinkled and unpleasant to look at, 
they still persist in exercising ? " " Yes, on my word," 
he replied, " it would seem ridiculous under present 

custom (sometimes called ffwriOeia) of which there are echoes 
in Cicero's use of consuetudo, Acad. ii. 75, De off. i. 148, 
De tiat. deor. i. 83. 

'' Tj Xfyerai : cf. on 389 d. 

' Cf. Theaetet. 162 b, and the oxpifiadT]^ or late learner in 
Theophrastus' Characters xxvii. 14 Loeb. Eurip. Androm. 
596 ff. denoimces the light attire of Spartan women when 



€v rco TTapearwri, ^av^irj. Ovkovv, rjv S' iycb, 
€7Tei7T€p (LpfiTJaajxev Xeyetv, ov (f)o^rjr€ov to. tcov 
\apL€VTCov aKcojjLfxara, oaa Kal ola civ etnoLev els 
rrjv TOLavT7]v fiera^oXrjv yevofievqv Kal nepl to, 

(3 yvpivaaia Kai rrepi /jLovaLKrjv Kal ovk iXdxi-cyTa 
TTepi rr]v TCJov ottXojv a)(^aLV Kai LiTTrojv d;^r^creis". 
Opdojs, €(1)7], Xeyeis. 'AAA* eVetTrep Xeyeiv rjp^d- 
fjieda, TTopevreov npos ro rpa^v rod vo/xov, 
herjdeZai re tovtcov firj rd avroJv Trpdrreiv dXXd 
a7Tovhd[,eiv, Kal VTTOfxvqaacrLV, on ov ttoXvs xP^vos 
e^ ov tols "KXXrjaLV e'Sd/cet ataxpd eivai. Kal yeXola, 
aTTep vvv roLS ttoXXois tcov ^ap^dpcov, yvfxvovs dv- 
hpas opdadai, Kal ore rjpxovro rcov yvjxvaaicov Trpcb- 

D Tot ixev Ys.prjres, eireira AaKehat,fx6vL0i, e^yjv rols 
rore dareioLs rrdvra ravra Kotjicphelv r) ovk o'iei; 
'Eycoye. 'AAA' €7T€lSt], otfiai, xp<^fJ'^^OLs dp^etvov 
ro arroSveaOai, rod avyKaXvTTreiv irdvra rd rotavra 
ecfydvn], Kal ro ev rols 6(j)9aXp,ols Srj yeXolov e^eppvrj 
vrro rod ev rots Xoyois p.rjvvdevros dpiarov, Kal 
rovro evehei^aro, on p,draLos og yeXolov dXXo n 
rjyeXrai i] ro KaKov, Kai 6 yeXcoroTTOielv eTTix^'-pdJv 
TTpds dXXrjv nvd oipiv diro^XeTrcov (hg yeXoiov r^ 

E rr^v rod d(f>pov6s re Kal KaKov, Kal KaXov av 
aTTOvSd^ei rrpds dXXov nvd okottov arriadp,evos rj 
rov rod dyadod. Havrdnaai p,ev ovv, e(f>r]. 

IV. *A/3' ovv ov TTpcorov p,ev rodro Trepl avrcov 
dvop,oXoyr]r€OV, el Sward rj ov, Kal Soreov dpicf)i- 
a^Tqrrjaiv, e'ire ng (juXoTraiapLajv elre airovSaanKos 

" Cf. Propert. iv. 13 Miiller. 

* For a variation of this image cf. 568 d. 

"^ Plato plays on his own favourite phrase. The proper 
business of the wit is to raise a laugh. Cf. Symp. 189 b. 

•* Cf. Thucyd. i. 6, Herod, i. 10. Sikes in Anthropology 
436 ■ 


conditions." " Then," said I, " since we have set out 
to speak our minds, we must not fear all the jibes" 
\vith which the wits would greet so great a revolu- 
tion, and the sort of things they would say about 
gynmastics and culture, and most of all about the 
bearing of arms and the bestriding of horses." 
" You're right," he said. " But since we have begun 
we must go forward to the rough part of our law,*" 
after begging these fellows not to mind their own 
business '^ but to be serious, and reminding them that 
it is not long since the Greeks thought it disgraceful 
and ridiculous, as most of the barbarians ^ do now, for 
men to be seen naked. And when the practice of 
athletics began, first with the Cretans and then with 
the Lacedaemonians, it was open to the wits of that 
time to make fun of these practices, don't you think 
so ? " "I do." " But when, I take it, experience 
showed that it is better to strip than to veil all things 
of this sort, then the laughter of the eyes * faded away 
before that which reason revealed to be best, and 
this made it plain that he talks idly who deems any- 
thing else ridiculous but evil, and who tries to raise 
a laugh by looking to any other pattern of absurdity 
than that of folly and wTong or sets up any other 
standard of the beautiful as a mark for his seriousness 
than the good." " Most assuredly," said he. 

IV. " Then is not the first thing that we have to 
agree upon with regard to these proposals whether they 
are possible or not } And we must throw open the de- 
bate' to anyone who wishes either in jest or earnest to 

and the Classics says this was borrowed from Thucydides, 
whom Wilamowitz says Plato never read. Cf. Dio Chrys. 
xiii. 226 M. For e$ ov cf. Demosth. iv. 3, Isoc. v. 47. 

• Lit. " what (seemed) laughable to (in) the eyes." 

/ Cf. ^01 D Soifiev . . . Xo^ov. 



453 edeXei d/i^iCT^T^r'^crat, TTorepov Swarr] (f)vaLs rj 
avdpcoTTLvri rj d-qXet,a rfj rov dppevos yevovs KOivco- 
vrjaai els aTravra ra epya, ^ ouS' els ev, r^ els rd 
yiev Ota re, eis Se ra ov, Kal rovro Srj to rrepl rov 
TToXefiov TTorepoiv eariv; dp* ovx ovrcos oiv kolX- 
Xiard rLs dpxopievos ois to elKos /cat KaAAiara 
reXevr-qcreiev ; IIoAu ye, €(l>rj. BoyAei ovv, ■^v 8' 
iy<x), rj/jieis rrpos 'qfxds avrovs vvep roiv dXXcov 
djji(^t(x^r]rT]acoiJLev, tva p^rj €prjfj,a rd rov erepov 

B Xoyov TT oXio p Krjr ai ; Ovhev, e(f>r^, KcoXvei. Aeyco- 
piev Srj virep avrcov on, " o) HcoKpares re Kal 
rXavKcov, ovSev Set vpilv aAAoy? dp,(f)LG^7]reXv' 
avrol ydp ev dpxfj ttjs KaroiKtaeais , rjv cpKL^ere 
TToXiv, dipLoXoyeZre heZv /card (f>vaiv eKaarov eva ev 
TO avrou Trpdrreiv." ' Q.pioXoyrjaap.ev , olp,aL' ttcos 
yap ov; 'J^ariv ovv ottcos ov TrdpnToXv Sta^epet 
yvvrj dvhpos rr)v (f)vat.v; IldJs 8' ov Sia^e/aet; 
OvKovv dXXo /cat epyov eKarepco TTpoarjKei nrpoa- 

C rdrreiv ro /card rr^v avrov (f)vai,v; Tt p.TJv; Ildjs 
ovv ovx dpiaprdvere vvv /cat rdvavria vpilv avrols 
Xeyere, (fidoKovres aS rovs dvSpas /cat rds yvvaiKas 
Selv rd avrd Trpdrreiv, TrXeZarov Kexoipiap,evrjv 
(f)vaLV e^ovras; e^eis tl, (L davpidaie, irpos ravr' 

" Plato as elsewhere asks whether it is true of all, some, 
or none. So of the commingling of ideas in Sophist 251 d. 
Aristotle {Pol. 1260 b 38) employs the same would-be ex- 
, haustive method. 

"" apxbfievos . . . Te\fVTri<rei€i> : an overlooked reference to 
a proverb also overlooked by commentators on Pindar, Pyfh. 
i. 35. C/. Pindar, fr. 108 a Loeb, Laws 775 e, Sophocles, 
fr. 831 (Pearson), Antiphon the Sophist, fr. 60 (Diels). 

" This pleading the opponent's case for him is common 



raise the question whether female human nature 
is capable of sharing with the male all tasks or none 
at all, or some but not others," and under which of 
these heads this business of war falls. Would not 
this be that best beginning which would naturally and 
proverbially lead to the best end * ? " " Far the best," 
he said. " Shall we then conduct the debate with 
ourselves in behalf of those others " so that the 
case of the other side may not be taken defence- 
less and go by default**?" "Nothing hinders," 
he said. "Shall we say then in their behalf: 
' There is no need, Socrates and Glaucon, of others 
disputing against you, for you yourselves at the 
beginning of the foundation of your city agreed * 
that each one ought to mind as his own business the 
one thing for which he was fitted by nature ? ' ' We 
did so agree, I think ; certainly ! ' ' Can it be 
denied then that there is by nature a great difference 
between men and women ? ' ' Surely there is.' 
' Is it not fitting, then, that a different function 
should be appointed for each corresponding to this 
difference of nature ? ' ' Certainly.' ' How, then, 
can you deny that you are mistaken and in contra- 
diction with yourselves when you turn around and 
affirm that the men and the women ought to do the 
same thing, though their natures are so far apart ? ' 
Can you surprise me with an answer to that ques- 

in Plato. Cf. especially the plea for Protagoras in Theaetet. 

^ Apparently a mixture of militarj- and legal phraseology. 
Cf. iKirepffT} in Protag, 340 a, 11. v. 140 to. 5' ipij/ia (pojie'iTai, 
and the legal phrase efjrjfjLriv KaraotaiTdv or 6<p\€tv. 

* wpLoXoyelre : cf. 369 E f. For Kara <f>vffLV cf, 370 c and 
456 c. The apparent emphasis of <pvffi% in this book is of 
little significance. Cf. Laics, passim. 



OLTToXoyeladai ; 'Qs fJi'^v e^ai(j>vrjs, ecfirj, ov ttolvv 
paSiov aAAa crov Se'qcroixai re Kal Seofiai Kal rov 
VTTep rjfjiojv Xoyov, oar is nor iarlv, ipp,rjvevaaL. 
Taur' iariv, rjv 8' eycL, co TXavKcov, Kal d'AAa 
D 77oAAa roLavra, a, iyd) TraXai TrpoopaJv icfio^ovpirjv 
re /cat ojkvovv aTrreadat rod vofiov rov Tvepl rrjv 
rcbv yvvaLKWv /cat TralScov Krijaiv /cat rpo(f)rjv. 
Ov na rov Ata, ei^f], ov yap evKoXio eoiKev. Oi5 
yap, cIttov dAAa 817 c58' ex^f av re ris els KoXvfx- 
^rjdpav fiiKpav ep,7Tearj av re els ro fjueyiarov 
TTeXayos ixeaov, o/xcos ye vel ovhev rjrrov. Wdvv 
ptev ovv. OvKovv /cat rjpLiv vevareov /cat Tretpareov 
aco^eaOai e'/c rov Xoyov, rjrot SeXcfilvd rLva eXirl- 
l,ovras rjpLas vnoXa^eiv av rj riva dXXrjv diropov 
E aojr-qpiav. "EoLKev, €(f)r]. ^epe Srj, -^v 8' eyo), 
edv TTT] evpcopiev rrjv e^o8ov. iup,oXoyovp,ev yap Srj 
dXXrjv (f>vaiv dXXo Setv CTnrrjSeveiv, yvvacKos 8e 
/cat dvSpos dXXrjv elvai- rds 8e d'AAas' (f)vaeis rd 
avrd cf)apev vvv Selv eTnriqhevaaL, ravra rjfxcov 
KariqyopeZre; K-opuSfj ye. H yei'vata, ■^v 8' eyco, 
454 CO TXavKcov, rj 8wa/xt9 rrjs dvrLXoyiKrjs re)(vrjs. 
Ti Brj ; "On, elrrov, hoKovai piOL els avrrjv /cat 
aKovres ttoXXoI epLTTCTrreiv /cat o'ieadai ovk epl^eiv, 
dAAd hi-aXeyeadai, hid ro p,rj hvvaadat /car' etSr^ 
SiaipovpievoL ro Xeyopevov eTnoKOTrelv , dXXd /car' 

<• Cf. the TriXayos tGiv \byuv Protag. 338 a. Similarly Sidney 
Smith : " cut his cable, and spread his enormous canvas, and 
launch into the wide sea of reasoning eloquence." 

* AnallusiontothestoryofArion and the dolphin in Herod, 
i. 24, as vTro\a(3e7v perhaps proves. For airopov cf. 378 a. 

" yevvaia : often as here ironical in Plato. Cf. Sophist 231 b, 
where interpreters misunderstand it. But the new L. & S. 
is correct. 

<* avTiXoyiKiis : one of several designations for the eristic 



tion ? " " Not easily on this sudden challenge," he 
replied : " but I will and do beg you to lend your 
voice to the plea in our behalf, whatever it may be." 
" These and many similar difficulties, Glaucon," said 
I, " I foresaw and feared, and so shrank from touch- 
ing on the law concerning the getting and breeding of 
women and children." " It does not seem an easy 
thing, by heaven," he said, " no, by heaven," " No, 
it is not," said I ; " but the fact is that whether one 
tumbles into a little di\ing-pool or plump into the 
great sea he s^\ims all the same." " By all means." 
" Then we, too, must swim and try to escape out of 
the sea*" of argument in the hope that either some 
dolphin * will take us on its back or some other 
desperate rescue." " So it seems," he said. " Come 
then, consider," said I, " if we can find a way out. We 
did agree that different natures should have diflPering 
pursuits and that the nature of men and women 
differ. And yet now we affirm that these differing 
natures should have the same pursuits. That is the 
indictment?" " It is." "What a grand "^ thing, 
Glaucon," said I, " is the power of the art of contra- 
diction <* ! " " Why so? " "Because," said I, " many 
appear to me to fall into it even against their wills, 
and to suppose that they are not wTangling but 
arguing, owing to their inability to apply the proper 
divisions and distinctions to the subject under con- 

which Isocrates maliciously confounds with dialectic while 
Plato is careful to distinguish them. Cf. E. S. Thompson, 
The Meno of Plato, Excursus V., pp. 272 ff. and the introduc- 
tion to E. H. Gifford's Euthydemus, p. 42. Among the 
marks of eristic are the pursuit of merely verbal oppositions 
as here and Euthydem. 278 a, 301 b, Theaetet. 164 c; the 
neglect to distingiaish and divide, Phileb. 17 a, Phaedr. 265 e, 
266 A, B : the failure to distinguish the hypothesis from its 
consequences, Phaedo 101 e, Parmen. 13o-"l36. 



avTo TO ovofia Slwkclv rov X^xd^vrog rrjv ivavTum- 
cnv, epihi, ov SiaAe/cro) Trpos dXXi]Xovs yP^H'^^^'" 
"Kan yap Sij, €(f)r], Trepl ttoXXovs rovro to Trddos' 
dXXd [xcov Kal npos rj/jidg rovro reivei. ev rep 

"BTTapovri; Ylavrdnacn, fxev ovv, rjv S' eyay Kivhv- 
vevofxev yovv aKovres dvriXoyLas aTrreadaL. Udjs; 
To TTjv dXXrjv (f>vaLv on ov rcov avrcov Set evn- 
r-qSevixdrcov rvyxdvetv irdw dvhpeioys re fcat 
ipLari.K<x)s Kara ro ovojxa hLcoKop.€v, eTreaKeifjdjjLeda 
8e ovS^ oTTTjovv, ri ethos ro rrjs erepag re /cat rrjs 
avrrjs (f>vacois Kal Trpos ri reZvov cupt^o/xe^a rore, 
ore rd €7nr7]S€vp.ara dXXrj ^vaet aAAa, rfj 8e 
avrfj rd avrd dTreSlSofxev. Ov ydp ovv, €(f)r], 

C €7T€aK€iJfd[jL€da. ToiydproL, eliTOv, e^eariv rjfjup, 
(VS €OLK€v, dvepcordv rjpids avrovs, et r) avrrj (f)vats 
<j)aXaKpa)v Kal Kop.-qrcbv Kal ovy "^ ivavria, /cat 
eTTeihdv ojjLoXoydJfjiev evavriav elvat, idv (j>aXaKpoL 
QKvroropLcZai, firj idv KopL'^ras, idv 8' av Koprjrai, 
pLT) Tovs irepovs. VeXolov pivr^ dv etrj, ecf)!/]. 
*A/3a Kar^ dXXo rt, cIttov iyco, yeXoiov, 7] on rore 
ov Trdvrcjos rrjv avrrjv Kal rrjv erepav (pvaiv 
indep.eda, dAA' iKclvo ro eiSo? rrjs dXXoicoaecos re 

D Kal ofxoLCoaeivs povov icf)vXarrop,€v ro Trpos avra 
retvov rd irrLrrjSevpiara; otov larpiKOV fxev /cat 

" dKovres is almost "unconscious." Cf. Phileb. 14 c. 

^ Greek style often couples thus two adverbs, the second 
defining more specifically the first, and, as here and often 
in Plato and Aristophanes, with humorous or paradoxical 
effect. Cf. Aristoph. Knights 800 ev Kal fiiapQs. So Shakes. 
" well and chirurgeonly." 

" Cf. Sophist 256 A-B for the relativity of "same" and 
"other." Polit. 292 c describes in different language the 
correct method. 

•* For this humorously trivial illustration cf. Mill, Rep. Gov. 



sideration. They pursue purely verbal oppositions, 
practising eristic, not dialectic on one another." 
" Yes, this does happen to many," he said ; " but 
does this observation apply to us too at present ? " 
" Absolutely," said I ; "at any rate I am afraid 
that we are unawares" slipping into contentiousness." 
" In what way ? " " The principle that natm-es not 
the same ought not to share in the same pursuits we 
are follo^ving up most manfully and eristically * in the 
literal and verbal sense ; but we did not delay to 
consider at all what particular kind of diversity and 
identity '^ of nature we had in mind and yviih reference 
to what we were trying to define it when we assigned 
different pursuits to different natures and the same 
to the same." " No, we didn't consider that," he 
said. " Wherefore, by the same token," I said, " we 
might ask ourselves whether the natures of bald** and 
long-haired men are the same and not, rather, the 
contrary. And, after agreeing that they were 
opposed, we might, if the bald cobbled, forbid the 
long-haired to do so, or vice versa." " That would be 
ridiculous," he said. "Would it be so," said I, "for 
any other reason than that we did not then posit like- 
ness and difference of nature in any and every sense, 
but were papng heed solely to the kind of diversity 
and homogeneity that was pertinent * to the pursuits 
themselves ? We meant, for example, that a man and 

chap. viii. p. 190: "I have taken no account of difference 
of sex. I consider it to be as entirely irrelevant to political 
rights as difference in height, or in the colour of the hair; " 
and Mill's disciple Leslie Stephen, The English Utilitarians, 
i. 291: "We may at least grant that the burden of proof 
should be upon those who would disfranchise all red-haired 

• C/. Laches 190 d eli 6 Teipetw SoKel, Prolog. 345 b. 



larpLKTjV TTjv il;v)(rjv ovras ttjv avrrjv cfyvaiv €)(€iv 
eXeyo/juev r) ovk o'Ui; 'Eycuye. larpiKOv Se /cat 
t€ktovik6v dWrjv ; Wavroj? ttov. 

V. OvKodv, '^v 8 iycx), /cat to tcDv dvSpojv /cai 
TO Tcbv yvvaiKcov yivos, edv fjbev TTpos rexvrjv rivd 
Tj aAAo imr'qSeviJ.a hiacjiepov (f)aLvr]Tai, tovto Stj 
(fiTiaopiev CKaTepo) Seti^ dnoSiSovai, idv 8' avro) 
TOVTO) (^aivrjTai 8La(f>ep€iv, to) to fiev drjXv tlkt€lv, 
E TO Se dppev ox^veLV, ouSeV rt ttco (fiijaofxev fxdXXov 
diroSeSelxdaL, cos Trpog o rjfieLg Xdyofxev Sta^epet 
yvvT] dvSpos, aAA' en OL7]a6[xeda Seiv ret aura 
eTTLTTjSeveiv tovs re <f)v\aKas rjpuv Kal Tas yvvatKas 
avTwv. Kat opddJs, ^V*^- Ovkovv jxcTa tovto 
KeXevofxev tov Ta ivavTca XeyovTa tovto avTO 
455 hihaoKeiv T^/xas", TTpos Tiva Texvrjv t] tl CTTiT'^Sevfia 
Tcov TTepl TToXecos KaTaaKevrjv ovx "Q avTrj dXXd 
€T€pa (f)vaLs yvvaiKos re /cat dvhpos; AiKaiov 
yovv. Tdxo. Toivvv dv, OTrep av oXiyov TrpoTepov 
eXeyes, etTrot dv Kal dXXos, otc iv pikv tco vapa- 
Xpfjp-o- iKavcos etTTelv ov pdSiov, iTno-Keifja/jievcp 8e 
ovSev ;!^aAe77dp'. EtVoi ydp dv. BoyAet ovv Seco- 
fjieda TOV ra rotaura dvTiXeyovTOS aKoXovdrjaai 
B '^filv, idv TTOJ? rjfxels e/cetVoj evhei^ojjJbeOa, otl ovSev 
ioTiv eTTLTT^Sevfia tStov yvvatKL irpos StoLKrjaiv 
TToXecos; Ildvv ye. "Wi 8t], ^rjaopiev irpos avTov, 
drroKpivov dpa ovtojs eXeyes tov pukv €V(f}vrj TTpos 
Tt eii^at, TOV Se d(f)vrj, iv S 6 fxev paSicos Ti 

" Adam makes difficulties, but cf. Laws 963 a foOv . . . 
Kv^epvrjTLKov fxkv Kal iarpiKov Kal aTparriyLKov. The translation 
follows Hermann despite the objection that this reading 
forestalls the next sentence. Cf. Campbell ad loc. and Apelt, 
Woch.fUr klass. Phil., 1903, p. 344. 

* Plato anticipates the objection that the Socratic dialectic 


a woman who have a physician's" mind have the 
same nature. Don't you think so ? " " I do." "But 
that a man physician and a man carpenter have 
different natures ? " " Certainly, I suppose." 

V. " Similarly, then," said I, " if it appears that the 
male and the female sex have distinct qualifications for 
any arts or ])ursuits, w^e shall affirm that they ought to 
be assigned respectively to each. But if it appears 
that they differ only in just this respect that the 
female bears and the male begets, we shall say that no 
proof has yet been produced that the woman differs 
from the man for our purposes, but we shall continue 
to think that our guardians and their wives ought to 
follow the same pursuits." " And rightly," said he. 
" Then, is it not the next thing to bid our opponent 
tell us precisely for what art or pursuit concerned 
with the conduct of a state the woman's nature 
differs from the man's ? " " That would be at any 
rate fair." " Perhaps, then, someone else, too, 
might say what you were saying a while ago, that it 
is not easy to find a satisfactory answer on a sudden, *" 
but that with time for reflection there is no difficulty." 
" He might say that." " Shall we, then, beg the 
raiser of such objections to follow us, if we may 
perhaps prove able to make it plain to him that there 
is no pursuit connected with the administration of a 
state that is peculiar to woman ? " " By all means." 
" Come then, we shall say to him, answer our 
question. Was this the basis of your distinction 
between the man naturally gifted for anything and 
the one not so gifted — that the one learned easily, 

surprises assent. Cf. more fully 487 b, and for a comic 
version Hippias Major 295 a " if I could go off for a little 
by myself in solitude I would tell you the answer more 
precisely than precision itself." 



jxavdavoi, 6 8e x^Xcttcos, Kal 6 fiev avo ^pa^^eta? 
fxad-qaeojs irrl ttoXv evperiKOs etrj ov efxaOev, 6 Se 
7TO?^Xrjs fxad-^aeojs tvxojv /cat iieXerrjs fJ'^]^' o. 
ejjiade a<Lt,OLro, /cat rco [xev ra rov acofxaros iKavaJg 

C VTTTjpeToX TTJ hiavoia, rtp Se ivavrioZro ; dp' aAA 
arra ecrrlv •^ ravra, ots rov €V<^V7J Trpos CKaara 
Kal Tov fiTj (hpit^ov; 0?3Set?, rj 8' 6s, aAAa <f>iqa€L. 
Oladd Tt ovv VTTO avdpd>7TCDV p^eXeTco/jievov, iv co 
ov TTOLVTa ravra ro rwv dvBpcov yevos hia^epovroyg 
€)(£L 7] ro ra>v yvvaiKOiv; rj paKpoXoya)p,ev rrjv 
re v(f)avrLKr)v Xeyovres Kal rrjv rcov Trovdviov re 

D /cat €iftr)p.drcov depaTreiav, ev ots Sry rt So/cet to 
yvvaiKeZov yevog elvai, ov /cat KarayeXaarorarov 
ear I Trdvrcov 7jrrcop,€Vov ; 'AXrjdrj, e(f>rj, Xeyeis, on 
TToXv KpareZrat ev drraaiv cog eVo? elnelv ro yevos 
rod yevovg. yvvacKeg p,ev roi rroXXai ttoXXcov 
dvdpoJv ^eXriovs els noXXd- ro Be oXov e;\;et d>s 
av Xeyets- Ovhev dpa eariv, cb (jiiXe, eTTir-qSevfia 
rcbv ttoXlv SioLKovvrajv yvvaiKos Stort yvvrj, ovB 
dvSpos Stort dvT]p, dAA' op^oicos hieaTTappLevai at 
^vaeis ev dp(j)oZv roZv I^coolv, /cat irdvrojv p.ev 
puerexet yvvrj eTnrrjSevpdrojv Kara (f>vaLV, Travrcov 

E Be dv-qp, errl irdaL he dodevearepov yvvrj dvBpos. 
Hdvv ye. *H ovv dvSpdat Trdvra vpoard^opev, 
yvvaiKi 8e ovSev; Kat ttcos; 'AAA' earn ydp, 

" C/.Poii<. 286 E, where this is said to be the object of teaching. 

* Cf. Protag. 326 b, Rep. 498 b, 410 c, Isoc. xv. 180, Xen. 
Mem. ii. 1. 28. 

" On the alleged superiority of men even in women's 
occupations cf. the amusing diatribe of the old bachelor in 
George Eliot's Adam Bede, chap. xxi. : "I tell you there 
isn't a thing under the sun that needs to be done at all but 
what a man can do better than women, unless it's bearing 
children, and they do that in a poor makeshift way," and 


the other ■«ith difficulty ; that the one with sHght 
instruction could discover ° much for himself in the 
matter studied, but the other, after much instruction 
and drill, could not even remember what he had 
learned ; and that the bodily faculties of the one 
adequately served ^ his mind, while, for the other, the 
body was a hindrance ? Were there any other points 
than these by which you distinguish the well 
endowed man in every subject and the poorly 
endowed ? " " No one," said he, " vsill be able to name 
any others." " Do you know, then, of anything 
practised by mankind in which the mascuhne sex 
does not surpass the female on all these points ? " 
Must we make a long story of it by alleging wea\ing 
and the watching of pancakes and the boihng pot, 
whereon the sex plumes itself and wherein its defeat 
will expose it to most laughter ? " " You are right," 
he said, " that the one sex** is far surpassed by the 
other in everything, one may say. Many women, it 
is true, are better than many men in many things, 
but broadly speaking, it is as you say." " Then 
there is no pursuit of the administrators of a state 
that belongs to a woman because she is a woman or 
to a man because he is a man. But the natural 
capacities are distributed ahke among both creatures, 
and women naturally share in all pursuits and men in 
all — yet for all the woman is weaker than the man." 
" Assuredly." " Shall we, then, assign them all to 
men and nothing to women ? " " How could we?" 
" We shall rather, I take it, say that one woman has 

the remarks on women as cooks of the bachelor Nietzsche, 
Beyond Good and Evil, § 234. But Xen. Hem. iii. 9. 11 
takes the ordinary view. On the character of women 
generally cf. Laves 781 and Aristotle in Zeller trans, ii. 215. 
' Cf. Cratyl. 392 C u« rd 6\ov eiirflv yefos. 



OLfxai, d>s (f)iqaoiJL€V, /cat ywq larpLK-q, rj 8' ov, /cat 
fiovaLK-^, rj S' dfjiovaos (f)ua€L. Ti jut^v; Vvfiva- 
456 aTLKTj 8' apa ou, oj)8e TToXefxiKij, rj 8e aTroAe^Lto? 
/cat ov ^iXoyvixvaoTLKri ; Ot/xat eycoye. Tt 8e; 
<f)cX6ao(f)6s T€ /cat ixia6ao(f)os ; Kal dvjjLoeiS'qs, rj 
S' dOvixos; "Eari /cat raura. "Earti^ apa /cat 
<f)vXaKLKr) yvvrj, tj 8' ou. •^ ou roiavrr]v /cat TtSi' 
dt-Spcov rail' (f>vXaKLKCJV (f)VGtv i^eXe^dfieOa; Toiav- 
rr]v [jL€v ovv. Kat yui'at/cos' apa /cat avSpo? t] avrrj 
<j>vais els (^vXaKTjv ttoXccos, vXrjv oaa dadevearepa 
T] laxvpoTcpa ioTLV. OatVerat. 

B VI. Kai yvvoLKes dpa at Toiaurat rot? tolovtols 
dvSpdcnv e/cAe/creat ^vvoiKeZv re /cat ^v[xcf)vXdTT€iv, 
iveLTrep elcrlv LKaval Kal ^vyyevels avrols Tr)v 
^vaiv. Ildvv ye. Ta 8' eTrtTT^Seu/xara ou ra 
aura aTroSorea rat? aurat? (fivaeaiv ; Ta avra. 
"HKOfxev dpa els rd Trporepa Trepi^epopievoi, /cat 
ofxoXoyovfjLev firj -napd <j)vcnv elvai rals rwv <f>v- 
XaKOJV yvvac^l p.ovaiK'^v re Kal yvpLvaarLK-qv 

C (XTroStSot'at. YlavrdTTauL jxev ovv. Ovk dpa dhv- 
vard ye ovhe ev^o-ls opLoca evop^oderovpuev , eireLTrep 
Kara (fivaiv irldefxev rov vopuov dXXd rd vvv rrapa 
ravra ytyvofxeva vapd (fivaiv puaXXov, cos eoiKe, 
yiyverai. "Eot/cei'. Ovkovv rj eTrlaKei/jts 'f]pA,v -qv, 
el hvvard re Kal ^eXriara Xeyoip.ev ; 'Hv yap. 
Kat OTt iiev Sr) Sward, SicoixoXoyrjrai; Nat. 
"On 8e 8r) ^eXriara, ro p-erd rovro Set Stouo- 
Xoyrjdrjvai; At^Aop'. Ovkovv Trpos ye to (f)vXa- 
KiKTjv yvvalKa yeviadai ovk dXXr) fiev rjixlv dvSpas 

" Cf. Gorg. 517 c. " C/. on 450 d. 

" Cf. Introd. p. xvii. 



the nature of a physician and another not, and one 
is by nature musical, and another unmusical ? " 
'' Surely." " Can we, then, deny that one woman is 
naturally athletic and warhke and another unwarlike 
and averse to gymnastics ? " " I think not." " And 
again, one a lover, another a hater, of ^^^sdom? And 
one high-spirited, and the other lacking spirit ? " 
" That also is true." " Then it is like\\-ise true that 
one woman has the qualities of a guardian and 
another not. Were not these the natural qualities 
of the men also whom we selected for guardians ? " 
" They were." " The women and the men, then, 
have the same nature in respect to the guardianship 
of the state, save in so far as the one is weaker, the 
other stronger." " Apparently." 

VI. " Women of this kind, then, must be selected to 
cohabit with men of this kind and to serve vnth them 
as guardians since they are capable of it and akin by 
nature." " By all means." " And to the same 
natures must we not assign the same pursuits ? " 
" The same." " We come round,'' then, to our 
pre\ious statement, and agree that it does not run 
counter to nature to assign music and gymnastics 
to the wves of the guardians." " By all means." 
" Our legislation, then, was not impracticable or 
Utopian, ** since the law we proposed accorded with 
nature. Rather, the other way of doing things, 
prevalent to-day, proves, as it seems, unnatural." 
" Apparently." " The object of our inquiry was the 
possibihty and the desirability <^ of what we were pro- 
posing?" "It was." "That it is possible has been 
admitted." "Yes." "The next point to be agreed 
uponisthat itis the best way." "Obviously." "For 
the production of a female guardian, then, our educa- 

voL. I 2 a 449 


TTOL-qcrei TraiSeta, aAArj 8e yvvalKas, dXXcos re Kal 

D T-qv avT7]v (f)vaiv TrapaXa^ouaa ; Ovk dXXr). Ilajs" 

ovv ex^iS S6^r]s rod roLovhe 77ept; Tlvos S-q; Tov 

VTroXa/jL^dveLV Trapd aeavro) tov fxev dfieivu) dvSpa, 

TOV §€ ■x.^ipaj- 7) TrdvTas opLoiovs •^yet; OvSajxcos . 

lEiV ovv Tjj TToXei, rjV cpKL^ofxev, iroTepov oiet r]p.Zv 

dfieLvovs dvSpas i^eipydadai tovs (f>vXaKas tvxov- 

Ttt? 'qs Si'qXdoiJiev TTaiheias, iq tov? aKVTOTopiovs 

TTJ aKVTLKjj TTaiSevdevTas; TeXolov, €(f>rj, ipajTag. 

E M.avddvco, e(f)7jv ti Se; tojv dXXcov ttoXltwv ovx 

OVTOL dpiOTOi; TloXv ye. Tt 8e; at yvvaiKes 

T(x)v yvvaiK(x)v ovx cturat eaovTai ^eArtarat; Kat 

TOVTO, €(f)rj, TToXv. "EctTI Sc Tl TToXei dfJi€l,VOV Tj 

yvvaiKdg re /cat dvSpas d)s dpioTovs eyyiyveadai; 
Ovk eoTLV. Tovto he piovaiKiq t€ Kal yvjxvaaTiKr] 
457 TrapaytyvofievaL, d}s rjfiels hirjXdofxev , dTrepydaovrai, ; 
Yicjs 8' ov ; Ov jxovov dpa SvvaTov dXXd Kai 
dpiOTOv TtoXei vofitfiov eTiOep^ev. OvTUjg. 'Atto- 
8vT€ov Srj Tols Tcov ^vXaKcov yvvai^iv, ineLTrep 
dpeTTjv dvTL LjxaTLCJV dpL<^L€aovTaL , xrai kolvci)V7]t4ov 
TToXejJiOV T€ Kal TTJs dXXrjg (f)vXaKfjs ttjs rrepi ttjv 
ttoXlv, Kal OVK d/\Xa vpaKTeov tovtcov 8 avTCov 
ra eXa(j>p6T€pa rat? yvvai^lv r) rots' dv8paCTt SoTeov 
B 8ta Tr]v TOV yevovs dadeveiav o 8e yeXdJv avT]p eTTt 
yvfxvals yvvai^i, tov ^eXriuTov eveKa yvfiva^o- 

" This is only a more complicated case of the point of 
style noted on 349 d. C/. Cratyl. 386 a. Sophist 24.7 a. 

* Cf. on 421 A. We should not press this incidental 
phrase to prove that Plato would not educate all the citizens, 
as he in fact does in the Laws and by implication in the 

' Cf. Morley, Voltaire, p. 103: "It has been rather the 
fashion to laugh at the Marquise de Chatelet, for no better 
reason than that she, being a woman, studied Newton. . . . 



tion will not be one thing for men and another for 
women, especially since the nature which we hand 
over to it is the same." " There will be no differ- 
ence." " How are you minded, now, in this matter ? " 
" In what ? " "In the matter of supposing some 
men to be better and some worse," or do you think 
them all aUke ? " " By no means." " In the city, 
then, that we are founding, which do you think will 
prove the better men, the guardians recei\ing the 
education which we have described or the cobblers 
educated by the art of cobbhng* ? " " An absurd 
question," he said. " I understand," said I ; " and 
are not these the best of all the citizens ? " " By 
far." " And will not these women be the best of all 
the women ? " " They, too, by far." " Is there 
anything better for a state than the generation in it 
of the best possible women "^ and men ? " " There 
is not." " And this, music and gj'mnastics applied 
as we described will effect." " Surely." " Then 
the institution we proposed is not only possible but 
the best for the state." "That is so." "Thewomen 
of the guardians, then, must strip, since they will 
be clothed with virtue as a garment,'' and must take 
their part with the men in war and the other duties 
of civic guardianship and have no other occupation. 
But in these very duties lighter tasks must be assigned 
to the women than to the men because of their weak- 
ness as a class. But the man who ridicules unclad 
women, exercising because it is best that they 

There is probably nothing which would lead to so rapid and 
Fiiarked an improvement in the world as a large increase of 
the number of women in it with the will and the capacity 
to master Newton as thoroughly as she did." 

* Cf. Rousseau, Lettre a d'Alembert, "Couvertes de 
rhonnetet6 pubJique." 



fievais, dreXrj rod yeXoiov Spencov Kapnov, ovSev 
ofSev, (l)s €oiK€V, i(f)' (h yeXa ovB 6 rt TTpdrrei,' 
KoXXiara yap Srj rovro /cai Aeyerai /fat AeAe'f erat, 
on TO fiev d)cf)eXLfjLOV KaXov, to 8e ^Xa^epov 
alaxpov. UavTaTTacn fxev ovv. 


8La(f)€vyeLV, tov yvvaiKeiov Trepi vofxov XeyovTCs, 
C ware fxr) TravTaTTacti KaraKXvadrjvai TiOevTas, o)? 
Set KOivfj TTOLVTa iTTLTrjSeveiv tovs re cf)vXaKas 'Qpuv 
Kal Tas (fivXaKcSas, dXXd tttj tov Xoyov avTOV 
avTCp ofjLoXoyeladai, (hs Swara re /cat ctx^eAt^a 
Xeyei; Kai fxdXa, €(/)'r], ov ap.iKp6v /cu/xa 8ia- 
^evyeis. Oi^aets' ye, rjv 8 eycu, ov fJLeya avTO 
etvat, OTav to pLerd tovto lBtjs- Aeye Si], tSoj, 
€^17. TovTO), rjv S' iyo), eVerat vopios kul tols e/x- 
TTpoadev ToZs aAAot?, (lis ey<S/xai, oSe. TtV; Ta? 
yyp'at/ca? Taura? tcDv dvSpoii' tovtiov irdvTiov 
" C/. Pindar, fr. 209 Schroeder, dreXi) aocpias Kapirbv 
Sp^ir{eiv). Plato varies the quotation to suit his purpose. 

* This is one of the chief texts for the alleged utilitarianism 
of Plato, a question too complicated to be settled by anything 
less than a comparative study of the Protagoras, Gorgias, 
Phaedo, Philebus, Republic (IX) and Laws. ihcpiXifiou sug- 
gests " benefit " rather than " utility." Cf. Introd. to second 
volume of this translation, and supra on 339 a-b. 

" Cf. Aeschyl. Septem, in fine. 

^ For this form of exaggeration cf. supra on 414 c, 339 b. 

* On the whole topic cf. Introd. p. xxxiv, Lucian, Fugitivi 
18 ovK ei'56r€S oirws 6 iepbs eKelvos ij^Lov Koivas riyecadai tAs 
yvvaiKai, Epictet. /r. 53, p. 21, Rousseau, t^mile, v: "je 
ne parle point de cette pretendue communaute de femmes 
dont le reproche tant r^pete prouve que ceux qui le lui font 
ne I'ont jamais lu." But Rousseau dissents violently from 
what he calls " cette promiscuite civile qui confond partout 
les deux sexes dans les memes emplois." Cf. further the 
denunciations of the Christian fathers passim, who are 
outdone by De Quincey's *' Otaheitian carnival of licentious 



should, "plucks the unripe" fruit" of laughter and 
does not know, it appears, the end of his laughter nor 
what he would be at. For the fairest thing that is 
said or ever will be said is this, that the helpful is 
fair * and the harmful foul." " Assuredly." 

VII. " In this matter, then, of the regulation of 
women, we may say that we have surmounted one of 
the waves of our paradox and have not been quite 
swept <^ away by it in ordaining that our guardians and 
female guardians must have all pursuits in common, 
but that in some sort the argument concurs with itself 
in the assurance that what it proposes is both possible 
and beneficial." " It is no slight wave that vou are 
thus escaping." "You will not think it a great '^ one," 
I said, " when you have seen the one that follows." 
" Say on then and show me," said he. " This," 
said I, " and all that precedes has for its sequel, in 
my opinion, the following law." " What ? " " That 
these women shall all be common* to all these men, and 

appetite, connected with a contempt of human life which is 
excessive even for paganism." 

Most of the obvious parallels between Plato and Aristo- 
phanes' Ecdesiazusae follow as a matter of course from the 
very notion of communal marriage and supplj' no evidence for 
the dating of a supposed earlier edition of the whole or a part of 
the Republic. In any case the ideas of the Republic might 
have come to Aristophanes in conversation before publication ; 
and the Greeks knew enough of the facts collected in such 
books as Westermarck's Marriage, not to be taken altogether 
by surprise by Plato's speculations. Cf. Herod, iv. 104, and 
Aristot. Pol. 126:3 a 20. Cf. further Adam's exhaustive dis- 
cussion in the appendix to this book, Grul>e, "The Marriage 
Laws in Plato's Republic,"'' Classical Qumrterly, 1927, pp. 
95S.,Te\c\iTau\\cr, Literarische F€hden,\.Y>. 19 n., and the more 
recent literature collected in Praechter-Ueberweg, 12th ed. i. 
p. 207, Pohlmann, Gfschichte der Soztal en/rage und des Sozia- 
lismus in der antiken Welt, ii. p. 578, Pohlenz, Aus Plafonds 
Werdezeit, pp. 225-228, C. Robert, Hermes Mi. pp. 351 ff. 



D TTaaag eivai kolvols, tSta 8e firjSevl fjLrjSefiiav 
avvoiKelv /cat rovs TrarSa? av kolvovs, kol ixrjre 
yovea eKyovov clSevat rov avTov fx-qre TraiSa 
yovea. IIoAu, ^4'1> '^ovto cKeivov /.let^oi' rrpos 
aTTiaTtav Kal rod Svvarov vepi /cat rov (h^eXiixov. 
OvK olfiaL, rjv 8' iyo), Tiepi ye rov d)(f)eXifxov 
apL(f)LG^iqr€ia9ai av, ojs ov fieyLarov dya66v Kotvag 
fiev rag yvvacKas etvai,, kolvovs Se rovs TralSas, 
ctTTep olov re- dXX* otfxai nepl rov el Svvarov t^ firj 

E TrXeiarrjv dp(f>Lup-qTr]aiv dv yeveadai. Hepl dp(f)0- 
repcov, rj 8' og, ev fidX^ dv dp(f)La^r]Tr]d€L7] . Aeyeig, 
rjv 8' eyco, Xoycov ^varaaiv eyd) 8' (Vjxrjv e/c ye 
Tov erepov dTTohpdaeadai, e'l crot ho^eiev (}>(f>eXipLOV 
etvai, XoLTTOv 8e hrj p,OL eaeadai, Trepl rod Svvarov 
/cat fiT]. 'AAA' OVK eXadeg, rj 8' os, dirohthpaaKOiV, 
dXX dp,(f)OTepoiv TTepi 8t8oy Xoyov. 'Y<^eKTeov, 
Tjv 8 eyco, Slktjv. roaovSe [xevroi )(dpiaai fXOL' 
458 eacrov fxe eoprdaaiy d'joirep ot dpyol ttjv Sidvotav 
eiwdaaiv eoTidadai vcf)^ eavrwv, orav piovoi iropev- 
cxjvrai. /cat yap ol tolovtol ttov, rrplv i^evpelv, 
TLva rpoTTOv earai ti Sv eniOvfiovaL, rovro Trap- 
evres, Iva fxr) Kafxvcoat ^ovXevojjLevoL Trepl tov 
Bvvarov Kal p,-^, devreg wg vnap^ov etvai o ^ov- 
Xovrai, TJSr) rd XoLwd SiaTarTovaL /cat p^atpoucri 
Ste^Lovreg ola Spdoovai yevopuevov, dpydv /cat 
ctAAoj? i/)V)('^v eri, dpyorepav TTOiovvreg. 7)^7] ovv 

" A distinct suggestion of the topics of the " useful " and 
the "possible" in Aristotle's Rhetoric. 

'' Cf. Isoc. ii. 47, on "those who in solitude do not 
deliberate but imagine what they wish," and Chesterton's 
saying, "All feeble spirits live in the future, because it is a 
soft job"; cf. further on day-dreams, Schmidt, Ethik der 



that none shall cohabit with any privately ; and that 
the children shall be common, and that no parent 
shall know its own offspring nor any child its parent." 
" This is a far bigger paradox than the other, and 
provokes more distrust as to its possibility and its 
utihty." " " I presume," said I, " that there would 
be no debate about its utility, no denial that the 
community of women and children would be the 
greatest good, supposing it possible. But I take it 
that its possibility or the contrary would be the chief 
topic of contention." " Both," he said, " would be 
right sharply debated." " You mean," said I, " that 
I have to meet a coalition of arguments. But I 
expected to escape from one of them, and that if you 
agreed that the thing was beneficial, it would remain 
for me to speak only of its feasibihty." "You have 
not escaped detection," he said, " in your attempted 
flight, but you must render an account of both." " I 
must pay the penalty," I said, " yet do me this much 
grace : Permit me to take a holiday, just as men of 
lazy minds are wont to feast themselves on their own 
thoughts when they walk alone.* Such persons, 
without waiting to discover how their desires may 
be realized, dismiss that topic to save themselves the 
labour of deliberating about possibilities and im- 
possibilities, assume their wish fulfilled, and proceed 
to work out the details in imagination, and take 
pleasure in portraying what they will do when it is 
realized, thus making still more idle a mind that is 
idle without that." I too now succumb to this weak- 

Griechen, ii. p. 71, and Lucian's IlXotoi' ^ e^x"'- Plato's 
description anticipates the most recent psychology in every- 
thing except the term *' autistic thinking." 
* aWws : c/. infra 495 b. 



B /cat avTog fiaXOaKil^ofiaL , /cat €K€tva [xev iiriOviico 
dva^aXeaOaL /cat varepov eTnoKeiliaodat, fj hvvard, 
vvv 8e (Ls hvvaTa)v ovrcov dels GKeipofxai, dv /not 
TTapLTjs, TTOJs Siard^ovaLv avrd ol dpxovTes yiyvo- 
fieva, /cat on rrdvTWV ^vpic^opajrar^ dv etr] TrpaX' 
devra Tjj iroXet /cat rotj (f)vXa^i. ravra Treipd- 
aopLal CTOi Tzporepa avvSiauKOTreLadat, varepa 8 
CKelva, eiTrep TTapLTjs. 'AAAd TrapirjfjLi, ccfif], Kal 
aK07T€i. Oi/xat roivvv, -qv S' eyd>, etTrep eaovrai, 

C OL apxovres d^Lot, tovtov tov dvopiaros, ol re 
rovrots eTTtKovpoL Kara ravrd, tovs fiev edeXiqaeiv 
TTOielv rd eTnTarropieva, tovs Se eTTtrd^eiv, rd p-kv 
avTOVs 7Tei6op.evovs rots vopiois, rd 8e /cat pApov- 
p.4vovs daa dv eKeivoLS iTnrpeif/ojpiev. Et/cos", e</>T7» 
Su p,€v roivvv, rjv 8' eyw, 6 vopLoBerrjs avrols, 
ojomep rovs dvSpas i^eXe^as, ovrco /cat ras 
yvvaiKas e/cAe^a? TrapaScoaet-s /ca^' oaov olov re 
op,o(f)V€ls' ol 8e are oIkms re /cat ^voatria Kotva 
exovres, t8ta 8e ovSevos ovSev roiovrov KeKrr)p.evov, 

D opLov Sr) eaovrai, opLOV 8e dvapiepLiypievoiV /cat ev 
yvp,vaaioLs Kal ev rfj dXXr] rpo(f)fj vtt avayKrjs, 
olpiaL, rrjs ep.(f)vrov d^ovrai Trpos rrjv dXXtjXatv 
px^LV. Tj ovK dvayKaZd crot 8o/caj Xeyeiv ; Ot5 
yecopLerpiKats ye, 7y 8' os, dAA' epcorLKais avay- 

" Cf. Blaydes on Aristoph. Clouds 727. 

* Cf. Herod, ix. 8. He returns to the postponed topic in 
466 D, but again digresses and does not take it up definitely 
till 471 c or rather 473 c-d. The reason is that the third 
wave of paradox is also the condition of the possibility of 
realisation. Cf. Introd. p. xvii, 

■^ Cf. supra on 340 a-b. 

** That is to say, they are to imitate or conform to our 



ness " and desire to postpone ^ and examine later the 
question of feasibility, but will at present assume 
that, and will, with your permission, inquire how the 
rulers will work out the details in practice, and try 
to show that nothing could be more beneficial to the 
state and its guardians than the effective operation 
of our plan. This is what I would try to consider 
first together with you, and thereafter the other 
topic, if you allow it." "I do allow it," he said : 
"proceed with the inquiry." " I think, then," said 
I, "that the rulers, if they are to deserve that name, 
and their helpers likewise, will, the one, be wilhng 
to accept orders,*^ and the other, to give them, in some 
things obe}ing our laws, and imitating** them in 
others which we leave to their discretion." " Pre- 
sumably." " You, then, the lawgiver," I said, " have 
picked these men and similarly will select to give 
over to them women as nearly as possible of the same 
nature.* And thev, having houses and meals in 
common, and no private possessions of that kind, 
will dwell together, and being commingled in gym- 
nastics and in all their life and education, will be 
conducted by innate necessity to sexual union. Is 
not what I say a necessary consequence ? " " Not 
by the necessities of geometry," he said, " but by 

principles in the details which we leave to them. So in the 
Laws, 770 b, 846 c, 876 e, and the secondary divinities in 
the Timaeits, 69 c. Cf. Polit. 301 a, and Aristot. Pol. 
1^261 b 2 fxifieiTai. 

' Cf. 456 B. Plato has already explained that he means 
"of like nature in respect to capacity for government." 
There is no contradiction of the doctrine of the Politicus, 
310 A {cf. Laws 773 a-b) that the mating should blend 
opposite temperaments. Those elements are already mixed 
in the selection of the guardians. Cf. supra 375 b-c, 410 d-e 
and Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 62, n. 481. 



Kais, at KtvSvvevovaiv eKetvajv SpLfxvrepai etvat 
TTpos TO TreiOeiv re Kal eXKetv rov ttoXvv Xewv. 

VIII. Kat fidXa, etiTOV dXXa fxera 817 ravra, 
o) VXavKcx)v, droLKTcos p.ev fjiiyvvadai dXX-qXois y] 

E aAAo oTLovv TToielv ovre oaiov iv evBai/Jiovcov TToAet 
oiir' edcrovcnv ol dpxovres- Ov yap 81/caior, €(f)r}. 
ArjXov br) OTL ydjxovs to fierd tovto Troiryao/iev 
lepovs els SvvafXLv 6 ri fxdXiara' etev 8' dv lepol ol 
459 (hcj>eXipLdjTaroL. YlavTairaai fxev ovv. Ilcos ovv 
8rj (l)(j>eXip.(l)raTOL eaovrai; roSe jxoi Xeye, a> 
TXavKcvv opo) ydp aov ev ttj olklo. /cat /divas' 
drjpevTLKovs Kal rcov yevvalcov opvidoiv jxdXa 
avxvovs' dp^ ovv, co irpos Atos", 7Tpoaeaxy]Kds ri 
ToZs Tovrcov ydfiois re Kal TratSoTrou'ais'; To 
TToXov; e(f)r). Upcorov fiev avro)v rovrojv, Katrrep 
ovrcov yevvalcov, dp* ovk elul rive? Kal yiyvovrai 
dpiaroi; EtCTtV. Yiorepov ovv e^ drravrcov o/Ltoto)? 
yevvas, rj TTpodufiel 6 n jxdXiara eK ra)v apiarojv; 

B 'Ek rdjv dplcrrcov. Tt 8'; €k rdjv vecordrcov t] eK 
rcbv yepairdrcov rj e^ dKfia^ovrcov o Ti jxdXtara; 
'Ef dKfjLai,6vr(ov. Kat edv yurj ovrco yevvdrai, 
TToXv aoL riyel y^Zpov eaeadai ro re rdJv dpvidcov 
Kai ro raw kvvcjov yevos; tiycoy , ecpr]. 1 1 oe 
iTTTTCDV o'lei, rjv 8' eyo), Kal rwv dXXcov t,cLa)v; rj 
dXXrj TTT) exeiv; "AroTTOv pievr dv, rj 8 6s, eir]. 
Ba^at, rjv 8' eycv, oJ (j)iXe eraipe, d)s dpa a^ohpa 

« The phrase is imitated by Plutarch, Adv. Col. 1122 d 
^vffiKois, ov -yew/jifTpiKais iXKdfievoi dpdyKais. 

» Cf. Laics 789 b-c. 

' The riddling question to which the response is "what?" 
is a mannerism derived from tragedy, which becomes very 



those of love," which are perhaps keener and more 
potent than the other to persuade and constrain the 

VIII. "They are, indeed," I said; "but next, 
Glaucon, disorder and promiscuity in these unions or 
in anything else they do would be an unhallowed thing 
in a happy state and the rulers will not suffer it." 
" It would not be right," he said. " Obviously, then, 
we must arrange marriages, sacramental so far as may 
be. And the most sacred marriages would be those 
that were most beneficial." " By all means." " How, 
then, would the greatest benefit result ? Tell me 
this, Glaucon. I see that you have in your house 
hunting-dogs and a number of pedigree cocks. ^ Have 
you ever considered something about their unions 
and procreations ? " " What ? " ^ he said. " In the 
first place," I said, " among these themselves, 
although they are a select breed, do not some prove 
better than the rest? " " They do." " Do you then 
breed from all indiscriminately, or are you careful 
to breed from the best •*? " " From the best." "And, 
again, do you breed from the youngest or the oldest, 
or, so far as may be, from those in their prime ? " 
" From those in their prime." " And if they are not 
thus bred, you expect, do you not, that your birds' 
breed and hounds will greatly degenerate ? " " I do," 
he said. " And what of horses and other animals?" 
I said ; " is it otherwise with them ? " " It would be 
strange if it were," said he. " Gracious," said I, 
" dear friend, how imperative, then, is our need of the 

frequent in the later style of the Sophist, Politicus and 

■* This commonplace of stirpiculture or eugenics, as it is 
now called, begins with Theognis 184, and has thus far got 
no further. 



rjixLV Set OLKpcDV elvat raJv dpxovrojv, etTTcp Krai 
776/31 TO TOJV avOpcoTTiov yivo'S waavTcos ^X^'" 

C 'AAAa fjikv 8r) €X€i, e(f)rj- aAAa ri hrj; "On avdyKt] 
avTOLs, -^v 8' iycoy (f)appLa.Kots ttoXXoIs xPV^^'^'" 
Larpov he ttov firj heopbivois fxev acopiaat (f)appaKOJV, 
dXXd SiaLTT) edeXovrcov viraKoveiv , /cat ^avXorepov 
e^apKelv rjyovfxeOa etvai- orav 8e S-;^ /cat (^apfia- 
K€veiv Sei7, ta/xei/ otl avSpeLorepov Set rov tarpov. 
'AXrjdrj' dXXd rrpog ri Xeyeig; Ylpos rdSe, '^v o 
eyo)' avxvci) rco i/reuSet /cat rfj dTrdrr] KivBvvevet, 

D rjiJiiv SerjacLv ;^/3^CT^at rovs dpxovras ctt^ ci^eAeta 
Tcbv dpxopevcov. ecfyafiev 8e ttov iv ^apfxaKOV 
etSet Trdvra ret rotaura XP"Q^^P-^ elvai. Kat opuajg 
ye, €(f)r]. 'Et* rot? ydpois roivvv /cat TratSoTrottatj 
eot/ce TO opdov rovro yiyveadai ovk eXaxt-crrov. 
Ilcbs 8t^; Aet fjiev, elirov, e/c Ta>v ojpLoXoyqpievoJV 
rovs dpiarovs rats" dpiarais avyyiyveadaL cos 
TrXeiaraKLs, rovs 8e <f>avXordrovs rals (j>avXorarais 

E rovvavriov, /cat tcDv /xei' ra e/cyova rpe(f>eLV, roJv 
Se jLf^, et /ueAAei to TToipviov 6 n dKporarov etvaf 
/cat ravra Trdvra yiyvop^eva Xavddveiv ttXt^v avrovs 
rovs dpxovras , et ai) t^ dyeXr] rcov (j^vXdKOiv o ri 
fidXtara daraaiaaros earai. 'OpOorara, et^TJ- 
OvKovv Srj ioprai rives vofxoderrjreat [eoovTat], ev 
als ivvd^ofxev rds re vvp,(f)as /cat rovs vvp<^tovs, 
/cat dvaiai /cat vfivoi TToi-qreoi roXs r]fierepoLs 
460 TTOL-qrats Trperrovres rots yiyvo/xevots yapots' ro 
Se TrXridos rGyv ydpcov errL rots dpxovai TTOnqaopuev, 

" A recurrence to the metaphor of 389 b, as we are re- 
minded below in d. 

* Cf. 389 B, 414 c, and Laws 663 d eir' ayadt^ ^evSecdai.. 
Cf. on 343 A-B and Polit. 267 b-c, 268 b. ad below merely 


highest skill in our rulers, if the principle holds also 
for mankind." " Well, it does," he said, " but what 
of it ? " " Tliis," said I, " that they ^^■ill have to 
employ many of those drugs" of which we were 
speaking. We thought that an inferior physician 
sufficed for bodies that do not need drugs but yield 
to diet and regimen. But when it is necessary to 
prescribe drugs we know that a more enterprising 
and venturesome physician is required." " True ; 
but what is the pertinency ? " " This," said I : " it 
seems likely that our rulers will have to make con- 
siderable use of falsehood and deception for the 
benefit* of their subjects. We said, I believe, that 
the use of that sort of thing was in the category of 
medicine." " And that was right," he said. " In 
our marriages, then, and the procreation of children, 
it seems there will be no slight need of this kind of 
' right.' " " How so ? " " It follows from our 
former admissions," I said, " that the best men must 
cohabit with the best women in as many cases as 
possible and the worst with the worst in the fewest, 
and that the offspring of the one must be reared and 
that of the other not, if the flock "^ is to be as perfect 
as possible. And the way in which all this is brought 
to pass must be unknown to any but the rulers, if, 
again, the herd of guardians is to be as free as possible 
from dissension." " Most true," he said. " We 
shall, then, have to ordain certain festivals and sacri- 
fices, in which we shall bring together the brides and 
the bridegrooms, and our poets must compose hvinns 
suitable to the marriages that then take place. But 
the number of the marriages we will leave to the dis- 

marks the second consideration, harmony, the first being 



tv* (Lg ndXiara Staaco^coat top avrov dpidfjiov rcov 
dvhpcov, irpos TToAe/xou? re kol voaovs koL Trdvra 
Ttt roiavra aTToaKOTTOVvres , Kal fxi^re jxeydXy] rjfiLV 
rj TToXis Kara ro Svvarov fx'qre afxiKpa ylyvrjrai. 
Opdajs, €(f)rj. KAtjpoi S'q riveg, of/zat, TTOirjreoi 
ko/jli/jol, ware rov (jyavXov eKeZvov alridadai i(f) 
eKdarrjs avvep^ewg rvx'rjv, dXXd jxr] rovg dpxovrag. 
Kat jxdXa, €(f>r). 

B IX. Kat rolg dyadolg ye ttov rdJv vecov ev Tto- 
XepiO) rj dXXoOi ttov yepa Soreov Kal ddXa dXXa re 
Kal d^dovearepa -q e^ovaia rfjg rcov yvvaiKOJv 
^vyKOLix'qaea)s, tva Kal dpca fxerd iTpo(f>daecog cog 
TrXelcrroL rcbv Traiha)v €k rcov roiovrcov a7reipa>vrai . 
Opdcjjg. OvKovv Kal rd del yiyvofieva eKyova 
TTapaXajjL^dvovaaL ai inl rovrcov e(f)ear7]KVLai ap- 
)(aL e'ire dv8pa>v etre yvvatKcov e'ire dpi(f)orepa' 
Koival fiev ydp ttov Kal dp-^oX yvvai^i re /cai 

C dvhpdaiv. Nat. Td p,ev Srj rcov dyadcov, Sokco, 
Xa^ovaai, elg rov gtjkov oiaovai Trapd rLvag rpo(f)Ovs, 
Xcoplg OLKOvaas ev rivi fxepec rfjs TToXecos' Ta 8e 
rcov x^'-pdvcov , Kal edv ri rcov erepcov avaTTTjpov 
yiyvqr at, ev aTTOpprjrcp re Kal dh-qXai KaraKpv- 
ijjovaiv (vs TTpevei. K'lTTep fxeXXet, e(j)rj, Kadapov ro 
yevos rcov cfivXaKcov eoeadai. Ovkovv Kal rpo<f)7Js 
ovroi eTTiixeXrjaovraL, rdg re firjrepas ctti rov 
arjKov dyovres, orav OTTapycbaij Trdaav p,7]xo-vrjv 

D firjxavcojjLevoc, ottcos pLrjSepica ro avrrjs alad-qaerai, 

" Plato apparently forgets that this legislation applies 
only to the guardians. The statement that ancient civiliza- 
tion was free from the shadow of Malthusianism requires 
qualification by this and many other passages. Cf. 372 c 
and Laws 740 d-e. The ancients in fact took it for granted . 


cretion of the rulers, that they may keep the number 
of the citizens as nearly as may be the same,*' taking 
into account wars and diseases and all such considera- 
tions, and that, so far as possible, our city may not 
grow too great or too small." " Right," he said. 
" Certain ingenious lots, then, I suppose, must be 
devised so that the inferior man at each conjugation 
may blame chance and not the rulers." " Yes, 
indeed," he said. 

IX. "Andon the youngmen, surely, whoexcelin war 
and other pursuits we must bestow honours and prizes, 
and, in particular, the opportunity of more frequent 
intercourse with the women, which will at the same 
time be a plausible pretext for having them beget as 
many of the children as possible." " Right." " And 
the children thus born will be taken over by the 
officials appointed for this, men or women or both, 
since, I take it, the official posts too are common to 
women and men. The offspring of the good, I suppose, 
they will take to the pen or creche, to certain nurses 
who Uve apart in a quarter of the city, but the offspring 
of the inferior, and any of those of the other sort who 
are born defective, they will properly dispose of in 
secret,* so that no one will know what has become of 
them." " That is the condition," he said, " of pre- 
serving the purity of the guardians' breed." " They 
will also supervise the nursing of the cliildren, con- 
ducting the mothers to the pen when their breasts 
are full, but employing every device ^ to prevent any- 

* Opinions differ whether this is euphemism for exposure. 
On the frequency or infrequency of this practice cf. Professor 
La Rue Van Hook's article in T.A.P.A. vol. li, and that 
of H. Bolkestein, Class. Phil. vol. xvii. (19^2) pp. 222-2SQ. 

« Cf. supra on 414 b and Aristot. Pol. \2&2 a 14 ff. 


KaL oAAas" yaXa ixovaas iKTropt^ovres, iav fxr] 
aurat LKavai (bai, Kai avTcov rovrcov e7niie\r\Govrai, 
oTTOis ixerpiov -)(^povov drjXaaovrai, aypvTTviag 8e 
/cat Tov aXXov ttovov rirdais re Kal rpo(f)OLS rrapa- 
ScocTovaiv; UoXXrjv paarcovqv, €(f)rj, Aeyets" Trjs 
TraiSoTTOtias' Tat? rcov (j>vXa.K(jov yvvai^iv. YVpeTrei 
yap, rjv S' iyo). ro S' ecjie^rjs hieXdcop^ev o Trpo- 
dvfiovfxeda. €(j)afji€v yap Sr) i^,6vTU)v 8etv 

E TCI €Kyova yiyveadat. ^AX'qdfj. '^A.p^ ovv aoi ^vv- 
So/cet jJLerpios p^poP'OS' dKp,i]s to. eiKoaL err] yvvaiKL, 
avhpl Se ra rptaKovra; Td 770ta avra)v; e^'jy. 
VvvaLKL fjidv, rjv S' iyu), dp^apLevrj oltto et/coat- 
eVtSo? p-^xpt TerTapaKOVTaeTiSos TLKreiv rfj TToXer 
avSpi Se, eTretSdv" rrjv o^VTO.r'qv Spofiov dKpLr]V 
napfj, TO 0.770 TOVTOV yevvav rfj iroXec p-^xpt irevre- 
461 KanT€vrrjKOVTa€TOVs . ^AfKfiorepojv yovv, €(f)rj, avrrj 
aKpLT] acopiaros re Kal (f)pov'qa€cos. Ovkovv iav tc 
TTpea^vrepos rovrcov edv re vecorepos r&v els ro 
KOLvov yevvqaewv dipTjrac, ovre oaiov ovre SiKaiov 
(fir^oopiev ro dpLdprrjpLa, (hs 77atSa ^irvovros rfj 
TToXei, OS, dv Xddrj, yewiqaeraL oux i^tto dvaiajv 
ouS' V7t6 evxojv <^vs, as ecf)* eKaarois rols ydfiots 
ev^ovraL /cat lepeiai /cat lepeZs /cat ^vp.Traaa tj tto- 
Xls e^ dyaddJv dp^eivovs /cat e^ w^eXlpiajv cu^eAi- 

B pLCorepovs del rovs eKyovovs yiyveodai, dXX vtto 
OKorov pierd Beivijs dKpareias yeyovojs. Opdcos, 

" Another favourite idea and expression. Cf. Oorg. 459 c, 
Laws 648 c, 713 d, 720 c, 779 a, 903 e, Isoc. iv. 36, Xen. 
Mem. iii. 13. 5. * Cf. supra on 458 c. 

' Half humorous legal language. Cf. Aristot. Pol. 
13.S5 b 28 \eiTovpyeiv . . . Trpbs reKvoirodav, and Lucan's 
" urbi pater est, urbique maritus " {Phars. ii. 388). The 
dates for marriage are given a little differently in the Laws, 



one from recognizing her own infant. And they will 
proxide others who have milk if the mothers are in- 
sufficient. But they will take care that the mothers 
themselves shall not suckle too long, and the trouble 
of wakeful nights and similar burdens they will 
devolve upon the nurses, wet and dry." " You are 
making maternity a soft job'' for the women of the 
guardians." " It ought to be," said I, " but let us 
pursue our design. We said that the offspring should 
come from parents in their prime." " True." " Do 
you agree that the period of the prime may be fairly 
estimated at twenty years for a woman and thirty 
for a man ? " " How do you reckon it r " * he said. 
" The women," I said, " beginning at the age of 
twenty, shall bear for the state '^ to the age of forty, 
and the man shall beget for the state from the time 
he passes liis prime in swiftness in running to the age 
of fifty-five." " That is," he said, " the maturity 
and prime for both of body and mind." " Then, if 
anyone older or younger than the prescribed age 
meddles with procreation for the state, we shall say 
that his error is an impiety and an injustice, since he 
is begetting for the city a child whose birth, if it 
escapes discovery, will not be^ttended by the sacri- 
fices and the prayers which the priests and priest- 
esses and the entire city prefer at the ceremonial 
marriages, that ever better offspring may spring from 
good sires'* and from fathers helpful to the state 
sons more helpful still. But this child will be born 
in darkness and conceived in foul incontinence." 

785 B, 833 c-D, men 30-35, women 16-20. On tfie whole 
question and Aristotle's opinion cf. Newman, Introd. to 
Aristot. Pol. p. 183: cf. also Grube, Class. Quarterly 1927, 
pp. 95 ff., " The Marriage Laws in Plato's Republic." 
* Cf. Horace, Odes iv. 4. 29. 
VOL. I 2 H 465 


^cfiYj. *0 avTos 8e y', clttov, vo^os, idv tls tcov 
€Ti yevvcovTCOv fxrj ^vvep^avrog ap^ovros aTTTrjrat 
rcov iv rjXiKia yvvatKcbv vodov yap /cat aviyyvov 
/cat aviepov (fiT^aofiev avrov TratSa rfj TToAet Kad- 
lardvai. 'Opdorara, €(f)7). "Orav Se St], otpuai, at 
re yuvat/ce? /cat ol dvSpes tov yevvav eK^wai rrjv 
rjXiKiav, d(f)riaopiev ttov eXevdepovs avrovs avyyi- 

C yveadai <L dv ideXcoGi, ttXtjv dvyarpl /cat fiTjTpi /cat 
rat? TOJv Ovyarepoiv Tratcrt /cat rat? dvo) ixrjTpos, 
/cat yvvoLKag av TrXrjv vUl /cat Trarpl /cat rots 
TOVTCjv €LS TO /caTOJ /Cat €771 TO dvct), /Cat TavTa y 
TJSr) Trdvra hiaKeXevodfxevoi Trpodvpieladat, fxaXiara 
jxev JUTES' ei? ^ois" €K(f)€p€LV KV7]pLa fjLTjBe y* eV, eai/ 
yevTjrai, edv 8e rt ^idcrrjrai, ovto) ridevai, ojs 
ovK ovarjg rpocf)rjg to) rotovTcp. Kat ravra fiev 
y , €(/)rj, fxerptws Xeyerai' Trarepas 8e /cat dvya- 

D T€pas /cat a vw 8')7 e'Aeye? ttcos Siayvcoaovrai 
dXX-qXcov; OvSapLCos, rjv S' iyo), dXX' d(f)* 17? ai' 
rjpiepas tis avTOJV vvp.(f>ios yevqrai, /xer' eKeLvqp 
Se/caro) /ZT^t't /cat i^Sopicp Srj d dv yevqrai eKyova, 
ravra Trdvra npoaepei rd jxev dppeva vlels, rd 8e 
0-qXea dvyarepas , /cat CKelva cKeivov Trarepa, /cat 
ovro) Srj rd rovrcuv eKyova Traihcov TratSa? Kat 
eKelva av e/cetVoy? Trdmrovs re kol rr]dds, rd 8 
ev eKeivcp rw xpovio yeyovora, iv S at pLT^repes 
/cat ol rrarepes avrcov eyevvcov, d8eX(j)ds re /cat 

E d8eX(f)OVS' oiore, o vvv 8r) eXeyop,ev, dAAi^Aoii' p.7] 
dnreadai' d8eX(f>ovs Se /cat d8eX(f)ds 8a>aei 6 vopLos 

» Cf. Laws 838 a and 924 e. 

" Cf. Newman, op. cit. p. 187. 

" Cf. Wundt, Elements of Folk Psychology, p. 89 ; "A 
native of Hawaii, for example, calls by the name of father 


" Right," he said. " And the same rule will apply," 
I said, " if any of those still within the age of 
procreation goes in to a woman of that age with 
whom the ruler has not paired him. We shall 
say that he is imposing on the state a base-born, 
uncertified, and unhallowed child." " Most rightly," 
he said. " But when, I take it, the men and the 
women have passed the age of lawful procreation, 
we shall leave the men free to form such relations 
with whomsoever they please, except " daughter and 
mother and their direct descendants and ascendants, 
and likewise the women, save with son and father, 
and so on, first admonishing them preferably not even 
to bring to light ** anything whatever thus conceived, 
but if they are unable to prevent a birth to dispose of it 
on the understanding that we cannot rear such an 
offspring." " All that sounds reasonable," he said ; 
" but how are they to distinguish one another's 
fathers and daughters, and the other degrees of kin 
that you have just mentioned ? " " They won't," 
said I, " except that a man will call all male offspring 
born in the tenth and in the seventh month after he 
becamie a bridegroom his sons, and all female, 
daughters, and they will call him father.*^ And, 
similarly, he will call their offspring his grandchildren'' 
and they will call his group grandfathers and grand- 
mothers. And all children born in the period in 
which their fathers and mojhers were procreating 
will regard one another as brothers and sisters. This 
will suffice for the prohibitions of intercourse of which 
we just now spoke. But the law will allow brothers 

. . . every man of an age such that he could be his father." 
Cf. Aristoph. Eccles. 636-637. 
* Cf. 363 D and Laws 899 e, 927 b. 



avvoiKelv, eav 6 KXijpos ravry] ^vfjLTTLTTTrj Kal 17 
YlvOta Trpoaavaipfj. 'Opdorara, rj 8' og. 

X. 'H iJ,€v Srj KOLVOivia, ai VXavKcov, avrrj re 
Kal TOLavTTj yvvaiKcop re /cat TraiScop' tols <f)v\a^i 
aoL TTJs TToXecos' (OS 8e inofievrj re rfj dXXr] TToAtreta 
/cat p,aKpa) ^eXnarr], Set Si) to fiera rovro jSe^aicu- 
462 aaadai Trapa tov Xoyov -^ ttcos 7roiai/i,ev; OuVcu 
vi] Z\ta, 7] o OS. Ap ovv ov^ 'f]oe apxt] t7]s 
opLoXoyias, ipeadaL 7)p,ds avTovs, ri nore to fie- 
yiOTov dyaOov exopuev eiTTeiv els noXecos /cara- 
GK€vriv, ov Set aTO')(^at,6pievov tov vopLodeT7]V Tidevai 
Tovs vofjiovs, /cat TL fieyiaTOV /ca/cdv, etra eVtcr/ce'i/fa- 
cr^at, dpa a vvv St) Bi'qXdofxev els fJLev to tov 
dyadov 'i)(yos r^filv dpfioTTei, to) Se tov /ca/cou 
dvapjjioaTeZ ; YldvTCOv pudXiOTa, e(/)r]. "Kxopiev ovv 
TL puelt^ov KaKov TToXet, T] eKelvOy o dv avTTjv StacTTra 

B /cat TTOifj TToXXds dvTl pjids ; f] /xet^ov ayadov tov 
o dv ^vvSfj re /cat 77017^ piiav; Ou/c e^opiev. 
OvKovv rj puev rjSovijs re /cat Xvtttjs KOLvojvia ^vvSel, 
OTav 6 TL pidXiaTa rrdvTes ol TroAtrat twv avTcbv 
yLyvopievojv re /cat drroXXvpievwv TTapaTrXrjaLcos 
;^atp6DCTt /cat XvTTCOVTaL; UavTdTiaaL fxev o^v, e^^). 
'H Se' ye tcov tolovtcov ISlojols StaAuei, oTav ol 
piev TTepLoXyels , ol Se Trepixapels yiyvcxiVTaL enl tols 

C avTOLS TTadrjpLaaL ttjs voXecos T€ /cat tcSv ev Tjj 
TToAet; Tt 8' ov; ^Ap' ovv Ik TovSe to TOLovSe 
yiyveTaL, oTav purj dpua (f)9eyyojVTaL ev ttj TToAei Ta 
TotaSe piy/xara, to re ey^toi' /cat to ovk ep.6v, /cat 


and sisters to cohabit if the lot so falls out and 
the Delphic oracle approves." " Quite right," 
said he. 

X. " This, then, Glaucon, is the manner of the com- 
munity of Mrives and cliildren among the guardians. 
That it is consistent with the rest of our polity and bv 
far the best way is the next point that we must get 
confirmed by the argument. Is not that so ? " "It 
is, indeed," he said. " Is not the logical first step 
towards such an agreement to ask ourselves what we 
could name as the greatest good for the constitution 
of a state and the proper aim of a lawgiver in his 
legislation, and what would be the greatest e\il, and 
then to consider whether the proposals we have just 
set forth fit into the footprints '^ of the good and do not 
suit those of the evil ? " " By all means," he said. 
" Do we know of any greater e\il for a state than the 
thing that distracts it and makes it many instead of 
one, or a greater good than that which binds it to- 
gether and makes it one ? " " We do not." " Is 
not, then, the community of pleasure and pain the tie 
that binds, when, so far as may be, all the citizens 
rejoice and grieve alike at the same births and 
deaths ? " " By all means," he said. " But the 
indi\idualization of these feelings is a dissolvent, 
when some grieve exceedingly and others rejoice at 
the same happenings to the city and its inhabi- 
tants ? " " Of course." " And the chief cause of this 
is when the citizens do not utter in unison such words 
as ' mine ' and ' not mine,' and similarly with regard 

" We may perhaps infer from the more explicit reference 
in Theaetet. 193 c that Plato is thinking of the " recognition " 
by footprints in .\eschyl. Choeph. 205-210. 



Trept Tov aSXoTpiov Kara ravrd; KofiiSfj fxev ovv. 
'Kv fjTivL Br] TToAei TrXeXaroL ein to avro Kara 
ravra rovro Xeyovai ro efxov /cai ro ovk ifiov. 
avrrj apiara SioLKCirai; IloAu ye. Kat -rjris 817 
iyyvrara evos dvOpconov e;^et, oiov orav vov rjfiojv 
SaKrvXos rov TrXrjyfj, rrdaa rj KOLVCOvia 7] Kara ro 
acofxa 77/30? riju ifjvx^v rerap-evrj elg piiav avvra^iv 

D TTjv rod dp)(ovros iv avrfj jjadero re /cat rrdaa a/xa 
^wqXyiqae jxepovs Trovqaavros oXrj, /cat ovrco Srj 
Xeyofxev on 6 dvdpcoTTOs rov SaKrvXov dXyel- /cat 
776/31 aAAoy orovovv ra>v rov dvOpcorrov 6 avros X6- 
yog, TTepi re Xvtttjs ttovovvtos fjuepovs Kat, irepi 
rjBovrjs patt,ovros. *0 avros ydp, €(f>r], Kal rovro 
o epcorag, rov roiovrov eyyvrara rj dpiara ttoXl- 
revofxevq ttoXls ot/cet. 'Evo? 8ij, otfiai, Trdaxovrog 
rcov TToXirdjv oriovv 7} dyadov r) KaKov, rj roiavrrj 

E 77dAts fxdXiard re 07ycret eavrrjs elvai ro Trdaxov, 
Kal rj ^vvrjad-^aerat drraaa ^ ^vXXvTrrjaerai, 
*AvdyKr], e(f)rj, rr^v ye evvofjuov. 

XL Llpa av eir], rjv o eyco, e77ai'terat tjixlv em 
rr]v rjfxerepav ttoXiv, Kal rd rov Xoyov opioXoyq- 
piara aKoireZv ev avrfj, el avrrj pLoXiar' ex^t- ft^e 

" Cf. supra 423 b, Aristot. Pol. 1261 b 16 ff., "Plato's 
Lmcs and the Unity of Plato's Thought," Class. Phil. ix. 
(1914) p. 358, Laws 664 a, 739 c-e, Julian (Teubner) ii. 459, 
Teichmiiller, Lit. Fehden, vol. i. p. 19, Mill, Utilitarianism, 
iii. 345 : " In an iniproving state of the human mind the 
influences are constantly on the increase which tend to 
generate in each individual a feeling of unitj' with all the 
rest, which, if perfect, would make him never think of or 
desire any beneficial condition for himself in the benefits 
of which they are not included ; " Spinoza, paraphrased by 
HoflFding, Hist, of Mod. Phil. i. p. 325 : " It would be best, 
since they seek a common good, if all could be like one 
mind and one body." Rabelais I. Ivii. parodies Plato : *' Si 


to the word ' alien '? "^ " Precisely so." " That city, 
then, is best ordered in which the greatest number 
use the expression ' mine ' and ' not mine ' of the 
same things in the same way." " Much the best." 
" And the city whose state is most hke that of an 
indi\idual man.* For example, if the finger of one 
of us is wounded, the entire community of bodily 
connexions stretching to the soul for ' integration ' " 
with the dominant part is made aware, and all of it 
feels the pain as a whole, though it is a part that 
suffers, and that is how we come to say that the 
man has a pain in his finger. And for any other 
member of the man the same statement holds, aUke 
for a part that labours in pain or is eased bv pleasure." 
"The same," he said, " and, to returnto your question, 
the best governed state most nearly resembles such 
an organism." " That is the kind of a state, then, 
I presume, that, when anyone of the citizens suffers 
aught of good or e\il, will be most likely to speak of 
the part that suffers as its own and will share the 
pleasure or the pain as a whole." " Ine\itably," he 
said, " if it is well governed." 

XI. " It is time," I said, " to return to our city and 
observe whether it, rather than any other, embodies 

quelqu'un ou quelqu'une disoit 'beuvons,' tous beuvoient" 
etc. Aristotle's criticism, though using some of Plato's 
phrases, does not mention his name at this point but speaks 
of Tives, Pol. 1261 b 7. 

» C/. Laws 829 a. v 

* I so translate to bring out the analogy between Plato 
and e.ff. Sherrington. For "to the soul" r/. Unity of 
Plato's Thought, n. 328, Laws 673 a, Tim. 45 d, infra 584 c, 
Phileb. 33, 34, 43 b-c. Poschenrieder, Die Platonischen 
Dialoge in ihrem Verhdltnisse zu den Hippocratischen 
Schriften, p. 67, compares the De loci^ in homine, vi. p. 278 



Kal dXXrj Tig [xdXXov. Ovkovv XPV> ^4*1 ' Tt ovv; 
463 ecTTi /xeV ttov /cat ev rats dXXaLs TToXeaLv dpxovrds 
re Kal Srjfxos, eari Se Kal iv avrfj: "Ecttiv. 
rToAiVas' jLiev 817 TTavres ovroi aXXrjXovg Trpoa- 
epovaiv ; Y\.a)s 8 ov; 'AAAa TTpog tco TToXiras ri 
6 iv raZs aAAat? 8r][xos rovs dp^ovrag Trpoaayo- 
pevei; '£>• /xev rats ttoXXoIs Searroras, iv 8e ralg 
S7][xoKparovfxevai,s avro rovvojxa rovro, dpxovras. 
Tt 8' d iv rfj -qfieripa Srjfjios; trpos rep TToXiras 

B ri rovs dpxovrds (f)r]C7Lv elvai; Hwrrjpds re Kal 
imKovpovs, e^Tj. Tt 8' ovroL rov Srjixov; Mtcr^o- 
86ras re /cat rpocf)eas. Ot 8 iv rat? aAAat? 
dpxovres rovs 8T]piovs; AovXovs, ^<j>'^- Tt 8' 01 
dpxovres dXXrjXovs; 'E.vvdpxovras , d(f>f]- Tt 8' ot 
■qfierepoL; 'EvfX(f)vXaKas. "Kx^i-S ovv eiTrelv rcbv 
dpxovrcov rdjv iv raZs dXXais iroXeaiv, el ris riva 
ex^i TTpoaenreZv rcbv ^vvapxovrcov rov fiev cos" 
OLKeZov, rov 8' d>s dXXorpiov ; Kat TroAAoys" ye. 
Ovkovv rov fxev oIk€lov co? eavrov vo/xt^et re Kal 

C Aeyet, rov 8' aAAdrptov co? ovx eavrov; Ovrcos. 
Tt 8e ot rrapd ool (f>vXaKes ; ead^ oaris avrdjv 
exoL dv rd>v ^vfji(f)vXdKOJV vopLiaai Ttm t] Trpocrenrelv 
COS" aAAdrptov"; OvSajxaJS, ec^r]' iravrt ydp, & dv 
ivrvyxdvT) ris, "^ d)s aSeA^o) rj d)S d8eX(l)fj t] d)s 
rrarpl iq d)s fir]rpl 7] vlet 7) dvyarpi rj rovrcov 
iKyovois Tj npoyovoLS vofxiel ivrvy^dveLV. KaA- 
Atora, '^v 8' iyco, Xeyets' aAA' ert /cat roSe eliri' 

D TTorepov avroLS rd ovoptara p,6vov oi/ceta vopio6er-q- 
creLS, 7] Kal rds Trpd^eis Trdaas Kard rd ovoptara 

" For these further confirmations of an established thesis 
cf. on 442-443. 



the qualities agreed upon in our argument." " " We 
must," he said. " Well, then, there are to be found 
in other cities rulers and the people as in it, are there 
not ? " " There are." " Will not all these address 
one another as fellow-citizens ? " " Of course." 
" But in addition to citizens, what does the people 
in other states call its rulers ? " " In most cities, 
masters, in democratic cities, just this — rulers.'' 
" But what of the people in our city. In addition to 
citizens, what do they call their rulers ? " " Saviours 
and helpers," he said. " And what term do these 
apply to the people ? " " Payers of their wage and 
supporters." " And how do the rulers in other 
states denominate the populace ? " " Slaves," he 
said. " And how do the rulers describe one 
another ? " " Co-rulers," he said. " And oiu*s ? " 
" Co-guardians." " Can you tell me whether any of 
the rulers in other states would speak of some of their 
co-rulers as ' belonging ' and others as outsiders ? " 
" Yes, many would." " And such a one thinks and 
speaks of the one that ' belongs ' as his own, doesn't 
he, and of the outsider as not his own ? " " That is 
so." " But what of your guardians. Could any of 
them think or speak of his co-guardian as an out- 
sider ? " " By no means," he said ; " for no matter 
whom he meets, he vvill feel that he is meeting a 
brother, a sister, a father, a mother, a son, a daughter, 
or the offspring or forebears of these." " Excellent," 
said I ; " but tell me this farther, will it be merely 
the names * of this kinship that you have prescribed 
for them or must all their actions conform to the 

* TO dvofiara fj-dvov may be thought to anticipate Aristotle's 



TTpdrreiv, rrepi re rovg narepas, oaa vofios vepl 
TTaripas alSovs re Trept Kal KrjSefxovias /cat rov 
vvTjKoov helv elvai tcov yoveojv, rj jxrjTe jrpos decov 
{.L-qre vpog dvOpcoTTCov avrco dfieivov eaeadai, cvs 
ovT€ oata ovre StVata npaTTOvTos dv, el aAAa 
TrpdrroL ^ ravra; avrai aoi -q dXXai (f)fJiJLai e^ 
dndpTCDV T(ji)v TToXiToJv vfivqaovaiv evdvs irepl Ta 
T(x)v TraiSojv ajra /cat Trept Tcaripcov, ovs dv avToXs 

E TLS d7TO(f)-qvr} , Kal Trept rcbv dXXojv ^vyyevdjv ; Av- 
rai, €(f)7]- yeXolov yap dv etrj, el dvev epycov oi/ceta 
ovojjLara Sid rdJv arofidrojv fjiovov ^deyyoivro. 
IlaauJv dpa TToXecov p.dXiara ev avrfj ^vfjKJxDvq- 
aovcriv evog rivos rj ev rj KaKOjg irpdrrovro?, o vvv 
Srj eXeyojxev ro prjixa, rd on rd e/xov ei5 rrpdrrei 
"q on rd efidv /ca/ccS?. ^AXrjdecrrara, ■^ 8' o?. 
464 OvKovv fierd rovrov rov Soyfiards re /cat prjjiaro^ 
e(f>aixev ^vvaKoXovdeiv rds re -qSovds Kal rds 
XvTras Koivfj ; Kat opddjg ye e^ap,ev. Ovkovv 
fidXiara rov avrov Koivcovqaovaiv -qfxiv ol TToXlrai, 
o Srj ifidv ovofiaaovcTL' rovrov Se Koivcovovvres 
ovroi Sri XvTTrjs re Kal 'qSov-qs fidXiara Koivcoviav 
e^ovaiv; IloAu ye. ^Ap' ovv rovroiv air la rrpos 
rfj dXXr) Karaarrdaei rj rojv yvvaiKOJv re Kal rraiScov 
Koivuivia rois (^vXa^iv; HoXv fxev ovv fidXiara, e(f)rj, 

B XII. 'AAAa ixrjv fxeyiarov ye rroXei avrd diyi,o- 
Xoyqoafxev dyadov, aTreiKal^ovres ev olKovfievrjv 
TToXiv acofxan rrpds p-epos avrov Xvrrrjg re Trept /cat 
r\Sovris dis e^ei. Kat dpQdis y , €(f)r), dipioXoyri- 

" Cf. 534 D 6tl oiK d/xeipov. 

* C/. the reliance on a unanimous public opinion in the 
Laws, 838 c-d. 

' irepl . . . irepi : for the preposition repeated in a different 



names in all customary observance toward fathers 
and in awe and care and obedience for parents, if 
they look for the favour " of either gods or men, since 
any other beha\iour would be neither just nor pious? 
Shall these be the unanimous oracular voices that 
they hear from all the people, or shall some other kind 
of teaching beset * the ears of your children from their 
birth, both concerning '^ what is due to those who are 
pointed out as their fathers and to their other kin ? " 
" These," he said ; " for it would be absurd for them 
merely to pronounce with their lips the names of 
kinship without the deeds." " Then, in this city 
more than in any other, when one citizen fares well 
or ill, men will pronounce in unison the word of which 
we spoke : ' It is mine that does well ; it is mine 
that does ill.' " " That is most true," he said. " And 
did we not say that this conviction and way of speech ** 
brings with it a community in pleasures and pains ? " 
" And rightly, too." " Then these citizens, above 
all others, will have one and the same thing in com- 
mon which they will name mine, and by \irtue of this 
communion they will have their pleasures and pains 
in common." " Quite so." " And is not the cause 
of this, besides the general constitution of the state, 
the community of wives and children among the 
guardians ? " " It will certainly be the chief cause," 
he said. 

XII. " But we further agreed that this unity is 
the greatest blessing for a state, and we compared a 
well governed state to the human body in its relation 
to the pleasure and pain of its parts." " And we 

sense cf. Isoc. iv. 34, ix. 3, and Shakespeare, Julius Caesar, 
m. i. " As here by Caesar and by you cut off." 

<• dbyiMTbs re Ka.1 prinaros : cf. Sophist 265 c, Laws 797 c. 



aauev. Toy fieycarov dpa dyadov rrj TroXei alria 
Tjfjuv 7T€(f)avTai 7] KOtvcovia roZs eniKovpoig twv re 
iraihcov /cat rctiv yvvaiKcov. Kai ^LtaA , €^17. Kat 
/xev 81^ Kol ToXs irpoadev ye 6ixoXoyovp.ev' e(f}afji€v 
yap TTOV, ovre OLKias rovroig ISias Sett' eivai ovre 

C yrjv ovre ti KTrjixa, dXXd Trapd tcjv dXXoiv Tpo(f>'qv 
Xafx^dvovras J p-iudov rfjs <f)vXaKrjs, KOivrj irdvras 
dvaXiaKetv, el fieXXoiev ovtcos ^uAa/ce? elvai. 
^Opdois, e(f)y]- ^Ap' ovv ovx, OTTep Xiyoi, rd re 
TTpoadev elprjfxeva /cat rd vvv Xeyopbeva en [xdXXov 
dTTepydt,€raL avrovs dXrjdLvovs (f)vXaKas, /cat Trotet 
^Tj SiacTTTav rrjv ttoXlv, to epiov ovoixat,ovras p.rj 
TO avTO aAA' dXXov dXXo, tov /juev elg Trjv eavTov 
oiKLav eXKOVTa, d tl dv SvvrjTai xiopl's twv dXXcov 

D KTiqaaodai, tov Se els ttjv eavTov erepav ovaav, 
/cat yvvaiKd re /cat TratSa? CTepovs, rjSovds re /cat 
dXyrjhovas e/JLTTOiovvTas t8ta>v ovtcov tSta?, aAA 
evl SoyfxaTi tov ot/cetou Trept ctti to avTO ret- 
vovrag TrdvTas els to hvvaTOV opiOTraOeZs XvTrrjs re 
/cat r]hovrjs elvai; KofXiSfj fxev ovv, e(f)rj. Ti Sat; 
St/cat re /cat ey/cAr^/xara Trpds dXX-qXovs ovK olxrj- 
aerai e^ avrcov, (vs enos elrreiv, Sta ro ixrjhev IhLOV 
eKrijaOaL ttXtjv to acofia, rd 8' aAAa Koivd; odev 

E St) VTrdpx^i- tovtols dcrraaidaroLS etvai, oaa ye 
Sta XPVH''^'^^^ V TTatSajv /cat ^vyyevcov KTrjaiv 
dvdpcoTTOi <TTaai,dt,ovatv ; IToAAt) dvdyKT], ^4>'r}, 

» Cf. 416-417. 

" For a similar list c/.iyows 842 D, Aristotle.Po/. 1263b20f., 



were right in so agreeing." " Then it is the greatest 
blessing for a state of which the community of women 
and children among the helpers has been shown to 
be the cause." " Quite so," he said. " And this is 
consistent with what we said before. For we said,*" 
I beheve, that these helpers must not possess houses 
of their own or land or any other property, but that 
they should receive from the other citizens for their 
support the wage of their guardianship and all spend 
it in common. That was the condition of their being 
true guardians." " Right," he said. " Is it not true, 
then, as I am trying to say, that those former and 
these present prescriptions tend to make them still 
more truly guardians and prevent them from dis- 
tracting the city by referring ' mine ' not to the same 
but to different things, one man dragging off to his 
own house anything he is able to acquire apart from 
the rest, and another doing the same to his own 
separate house, and having women and children 
apart, thus introducing into the state the pleasures 
and pains of individuals ? They should all rather, 
we said, share one conviction about their owti, 
tend to one goal, and so far as practicable have one 
experience of pleasure and pain." " By all means," 
he said. " Then \vill not law-suits and accusations 
against one another vanish,*" one may say 5*^ from among 
them, because they have nothing in private possession 
but their bodies, but all els^ in common ? So that 
we can count on their being free from the dissensions 
that arise among men from the possession of property, 
children, and kin." "They will necessarily be quit 

objects that it is not lack of unity but wickedness that 
causes these evils. 

* Softens the strong word oixn<yi'rax. 



amq^axdoit,. Kai fjirjv ovSe ^laicov ye ou8' ai/cia? 
St/cat hiKaiois av etev iv avrols. ')7Aift fxev yap 
rjXLKas dfjLvveaOai, KaXov Kal ScKatov ttov (^Tycro/Aev, 
avdyKTjv acofidrcov iiTifxeXeia Tidevreg. ^Opdcos, 
465 e(f>rj, Kat yap roSe opdov 'e)(eL, rjv 8' eyc6, ovros 


TrX-qpcov Tov 9up,6v rJTTOV eirl pL€lt,ovs av 'lot gto.- 
aeis- riat'u p.€v ovv. Upea^vrepco fjbrjv v€a)T€pcov 
TTOVTOiv dpx^iv re /cat KoXdt,eLV TrpoareTd^erai. 
^rjXov. Kai fxrjv on ye vecorepos irpea^vrepov, 
dv fXTj dpxovreg TrpoaTdrrcoaiv, ovre aAAo ^td- 
^eadac eTTtx^tp-qaei TTore ovre rvirreiv, cu? ro ecKos' 
Oifjiai 8' ovSe dXXcos drLfidaei' iKavd) yap T(h 

B (j)vXaKe KcoXvovre , Seog re /cat alScos, alSojs p^ev 
cos yovecov p.r) diTTeadai e'ipyovaa, Seos 8e to to) 
Trdaxovri rovs dXXovs ^orjdeZv, tovs fJiev d)s vlets, 
rovs 8e CL>? dSeXcfiOvg, tovs 8e cos Txarepas'. Sujti- 
^atVei yap ovtcds, €(f)r]. HavTa;;^^ St^ e/c tcov 
vopLoyv elpT^vrjv npos dXX-qXovs ol dvSpes d^ovaiv; 
YloXXriv ye. Tovroiv pLrjv iv eavroXg pr] araaia- 
^OVTCOV ovSev Seivov pirj ttotc -q dXXrj noXis vpos 
TovTovs '^ TTpos dXXi^Xovs 8t;(OCTTaT7^CT2? • 0*^ ydp 

C ovv. Ta ye purjv apuKpoTaTa tcov KaKwv St' 
dTTpeTTetav okvco Kal Xeyeiv, (Lv aTTr]XXayp,evoL dv 
etev, KoXaKelas re irXovaicjov nevrjTes^ diropias re 

^ The text is probably corrupt. The genitive, singular or 
plural, is an easy emendation. But the harsh construction 
of irevryres as subject of icrxovcri yields the sense required. 

' Cf. A.J.P. vol. xiii. p. 364, Aeschines iii. 255, Xen. Rep. 
Lac. 4. 5, Laws 880 a. 

* One of the profoundest of Plato's many political 



of these," he said. " And again, there could not 
rightly arise among them any law-suit for assault 
or bodily injury. For as between age-fellows" we 
shall say that self-defence is honourable and just, 
thereby compelling them to keep their bodies 
in condition." " Right," he said. " And there 
will be the further advantage in such a law that 
an angry man, satisfying his anger in such wise, 
would be less likely to carry the quarrel to further 
extremes." " Assuredly." " As for an older man, 
he will always have the charge of ruhng and 
chastising the younger." " Obviously." " Again, 
it is plain that the young man, except by command 
of the rulers, will probably not do violence to an 
elder or strike him, or, I take it, dishonour him in any 
other way. There being the two competent guardians 
to prevent that, fear and awe, awe restraining him 
from laying hands on one who may be his parent, 
and fear in that the others will rush to the aid of the 
sufferer, some as sons, some as brothers, some as 
fathers." " That is the way it works out," he said. 
" Then in all cases the laws will leave these men to 
dwell in peace together." " Great peace." " And 
if these are free from dissensions among themselves, 
there is no fear that ^ the rest of the city will ever 
start faction against them or with one another." 
" No, there is not." " But I hesitate, so unseemly" 
are they, even to mention ^the pettiest troubles of 
which they would be rid, the flatterings '^ of the rich, 
the embarrassments and pains of the poor in the 

aphorisms. Cf. on oio d, Laws 683 e, and Aristot. Pol. 
1305 a 39. 

« Alma sdegnosa. Cf. 371 e, 396 b, 397 d, 525 d. 

* Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1263 b 22. 



Kal dXyriSovas, ocras iv Trat^OT po<j)ia Kol XPVH'^' 
TiGfiols Sia Tpocl)r)v otKercov avayKaiav ta^^ovGi, 
ra fxev Savet^d/xev'ot, to. 8e e^apvovfievoi, ra 8e 
Trdvrcos TTopiadixevoi depievoi irapd yvvaiKag t€ /cat 
oiKeras, ra/XLeveiv TrapaSovres, oaa re, co (jyLXe, 
7T€pl avra Kal ola Trdaxovat, SrjXd re Srj Kal 
D dyevvrj Kal ovk d^ia Xeyeiv. 

XIII. A'^Aa ydp, e(f)7], Kal rucf)Xa). Hdvrcov re 
St] rovroiv drraXXd^ovraL, t^rjoovai re rov jxaKa- 
piarrov ^Lov, ov ol oXvfnnovLKaL t,cocn, /xa/captco- 
repov. Hfj; Aid apuiKpov ttov p,epos evSatpiovL- 
t,ovrai eKelvoi cLv rovrois VTrdpx^t- ^j Te yap 
TCJvSe VLKrj KaXXioiv, rj t' ck rov drjixoacov rpo<f>r] 
reXewrlpa. viKrjv re ydp viKCjat ^vpbTrdarjs rrjs 
TToXecos acxirrjpiav, rpocjifj re Kal rols dXXois Tvaaiv, 
oacjjv jSio? Setrat, avroi re Kal rralhes dvahovvrai, 
E Kal yepa Sexovrai Trapd rrjs avrcov TToXecog t,a)vres 
re Kal reXevrrjCjavres racfiijs d^cas jxerexovcnv . 
Kat fxdXa, e<j)7], KoXd. Mep,vr](7ai ovv, rjv 8' eyco, 
on €V rols TTpoadev ovk oXha orov Xoyos 'qpuv 
eTTeTrXrj^ev, on, rovs <f)vXaKas ovk evSaifJLOvas 
46G TTOLOvjxev , ols i^ov irdvra e^eiv ra rdv troXiroiv 
ovhev eypiev; rjpieLS 8e ttov eLTTOjJLev, on rovro [xev, 
el TTOV TTapaTTLTTroL, elaavdis OKeijjopLeda, vvu oe 
rovs fJiev (f)vXaKas (j)vXaKas TTOLOV/jLev, r-qv 8e ttoXlv 
(Ls oloi r* elfxev evSaLfioveardrrjv , dAA' ovk ets ^v 

« Cf. 416 D, 548 A, 550 d. 

^ Proverbial. Cf. Sophist 241 d. 

' Cf. 540 B-c, 621 D, Laws 715 c, 807 c, 840 a, 946-947, 964 c, 
Cic. Pro Flacco 31 " Olympionicen esse apud Graecos prope 
maius et gloriosius est quam Romae triumphasse." The 
motive is anticipated or parodied by Dracontion, Athenaeus 
237 D, where the parasite boasts — 


bringing-up of their children and the procuring of 
money for the necessities of life for their households, 
the borrowings, the repudiations, all the de\'ices with 
which they acquire what they deposit with wives 
and serntors to husband," and all the indignities that 
they endure in such matters, which are obvious and 
ignoble and not deserving of mention." " Even a 
blind ** man can see these," he said. 

XIII. " From all these, then, they will be finally 
free, and they will live a happier life than that men 
count most happy, the life of the victors at Olympia.*^ " 
" How so ? " " The things for which those are 
felicitated are a small part of what is secured for 
these. Their victory is fairer and their pubhc suj)- 
port more complete. For the prize of \ictory that 
they win is the salvation of the entire state, the fillet 
that binds their brows is the pubhc support of them- 
selves and their children — they receive honour from 
the city while they live and when they die a worthy 
burial." " A fair guerdon, indeed," he said. " Do 
you recall," said I, '" that in the preceding** argument 
the objection of somebody or other rebuked us for 
not making our guardians happy, since, though it 
was in their power to have everything of the citizens, 
they had nothing, and we, I beUeve, replied that this 
was a consideration to which we would return if 
occasion offered, but that at present we were making 
our guardians guardians and the city as a whole as 
happy as possible, and that we were not modelhng' 

7e'pa yap aiiroU ravra rots rdXiy/iWia 
fiKuiffi d^doTOLi x/>'7<rr<5Ti7T05 ovvfKa. 
" C/. 419 E-20. 

* C/. 420 c. Omitting to, translate " that we were not 
fixing our eyes on any one class, and portraying that as 

VOL. I 2 I 481 


eOvos CLTTO^XeTTOVTes iv avrfj tovto [to] evSaii-iov 
TrXoLTTOLixev ; Mejxvrjfiai, e^i^. Ti ovv; vvv rjixlv 
6 T(x)v iiTLKovpoiv ^Log, €L7Tep Tov yc Tcjbv oXvfnno- 
viKcov TToXv T€ KaXXicov Kal dfietvcov <J)aLV€raL, fxij 

B 7T7] Kara rov rcov (tkvtotoixojv ^atVerat ^lov 'q 
TLVcov aXXcov BrjjjLLOvpycbv -^ rov rcov yecopyojv ; 
Ov pLOi So/cet, e^>7. AAAa jxevTOi,, 6 ye Kal e/cei 
eXeyov, hiKaiov /cat ivravOa elirelv, on, el ovrojg 
6 (f>vXa^ eTTi;^^^!^^^ evSaLficov yiyveadai, cucrre 
/xiySe (f)vXa^ eit'at, firjS^ apKeaei avro) ^ios ovtoj 
fxerpios Kal ^e^aios Kal ws rjfJ.els ^ajxev dpiarog, 
dAA' dvoTjTos re /cat p.eLpaKia)8r]s ho^a ep^Treaovaa 
evSaifJLOVias Trepi opfi-qaei avrov 8td Svvafjuv errl 

C TO dnavra rd ev rfj ttoXcl olKeiovadai, yvcoaerai 
rov 'Waiohov on rw ovn rjv ao(f)6s Xeycov TrXeov 
elvai TTOJS rjixtav Travros. 'E/xot pLev, ei^t], ^vp,- 
^ovXcp -x^pcLpievos pLevel eirl rovrcp ra> ^icp. Hvy- 
Xiopels dpa, rjV 8' eyo), rrjv rcov yvvaiKOJv Koivco- 
viav roLS dvSpdaiv, rjv SieXrjXvdapiev TraiSeta? re 
TTepi /cat TTathcov /cat (f)vXaKrjs rcov dXXoJV TToXircov, 
Kara re ttoXlv puevovaas els TToXepLOv re lovaas Kal 
^vpi(f)vXdrrei,v Selv Kal ^vvdr^peveLV uionep Kvvas 

D /cat TTavra Travrj) Kara ro Svvarov KoivcoveZv , Kal 
ravra irparrovaas rd re ^eXnara rrpd^etv Kal ov 
TTapd (f>vaiv rrjv rod diqXeos Trpos ro dppev, fj ire^v- 
Karov TTpos dXXrjXco KOLVojveiv ; ^vyxiopdj, e(f)rj. 

XIV. OvKovv, rjv S' eyoiy eKelvo Xolttov 8t- 
eXiadai, el dpa Kal ev dvdpcoiroLs Svvarov coairep 

" iwiKovpuv : the word here includes the rulers. 

* Kara, "comparable to, on a level with." C/. Apol. 
17 b, Gorff. 512 B. " ^ijSe : c/. 420 d. 

•* Works and Days 40. So Laws 690 e. 


our ideal of happiness with reference to any one 
class ? " "I do remember," he said. " Well then, 
since now the life of our helpers " has been sho\vn to 
be far fairer and better than that of the victors at 
01ympia,need we compare ** it with the life of cobblers 
and other craftsmen and farmers ? " "I think not," 
he said. " But further, we may fairly repeat what 
I was saying then also, that if the guardian shall 
strive for a kind of happiness that will unmake '^ him 
as a guardian and shall not be content with the way of 
life that is so moderate and secure and, as we affirm, 
the best, but if some senseless and childish opinion 
about happiness shall beset him and impel him to use 
his power to appropriate everytliing in the city for 
himself, then he will find out that Hesiod ** was indeed 
wise, who said that the half was in some sort more 
than the whole." " If he accepts my counsel," he 
said, " he will abide in this way of life." " You 
accept, then, as we have described it, this partner- 
ship of the women ^vith our men in the matter of 
education and children and the guardianship of the 
other citizens, and you admit that both within the 
city and when they go forth to war they ought to 
keep guard together and hunt together as it were 
like hounds, and have all things in every way, so far 
as possible, in common, and that so doing they will 
do what is for the best and nothing that is contrary 
to female human nature * in comparison with male or 
to their natural fellowshij5 with one another." " I 
do admit it," he said. 

XIV. " Then," I said, " is not the thing that it re- 
mains to determine this, whether, namely, it is possible 

• Ti)v : this order is frequent and sometimes significant in 
the Laws. Cf. 690 c, 720 e, 8U e, 853 a, 857 d, 923 b. 



iv aAAoi? ^coot? ravrrjv rr^v Koivcxiviav eyyeveaOaL, 
Kal OTTT) Svvarov; "Ei<f>9r)s, €(f)rj, elTToyv fj efxeXkov 
VTroX-qij/ecrdaL. He pi fxev yap twv iv rep -noXefxcp 

E oi/xat, €(f)r]v, SrjXov ov rporrov TToXepurjaovatv . ITcDs'; 
rj 8' OS. "On Koivfj arparevaovraL, /cat rrpos ye 
a^ovGL rojv Traihcov ei? tov TToXep^ov ogol dhpoi, 
ir' wcnrep ol rcov d'AAcut' hr]p,Lovpya)v Oecovrai 
ravra, d reXecvdevras Se-qaei hr]p,iovpy€lv npos 
467 Se rfj dea SiaKovetv /cat vTrrjperelv Travra ra Trepl 
TOV TToXepiov, /cat depaTreveiv irarepas re /cat 
[xrjrepas. rj ovk rjaOrjaai ra nepl ras ri)(yas, otov 
rovs rcov Kepap-ecov TratSas", to? ttoXvv )^p6vov 
BiaKovovvres decjpovoi Trplv airreadaL rov Kepa- 
fxeveiv; Kat fidXa. 'H ovv e/cetVoi? evrt/LteAe- 
arepov TratSeureov r) roZs (fivXa^L rovs avrojv 
ifXTreipla re /cat dea rwv TrpoarjKovrcov; Karaye- 
Xacrrov p.evr dv, e^rj, etrj. 'AAAd p,rjv Kal fxax^lral 

B ye ndv l,d)ov Sta^epdvra)? Trapovrcov (Lv dv reKT], 
"Eartr ovrco- klvSvvos 8e, c5 HioKpares, ov apuKpos 
a(f)aXetacv, ota 8r] iv TToXepicp ^iXeX, Trpos eavrois 
TTatSa? aTToXeaavras voLrjaai /cat rrjv dXXr]v rroXiv 
dSvvarov dvaXa^etv. ^AXr]dij, '^v S' iya>, Xeyeis' 

" Cf. on 451 D. The community in this case, of course, 
refers only to occupations. 

* fiev yap : forced transition to a delaying digression. 

" So with modifications Laws 785 b, 794 c-d, 804 d-e, 
806 A-B, 813-814, 829 e. 

•* For this practice of Greek artists see Klein, Praxiteles, 
Newman, Introd. to Aristot. Pol. p. 352, Pater, The Renaiss- 
ance 104, Protag. 328 a. Laws 643 b-c, Protagoras frag. 3 
(Diels), Aristot. Pol. 1336 b 36, Iambi. Protrept. xx., 
Polyb. vi. 2. 16, iii. 71. 6 koI iratSoixadri irepi to. iroXefUKdt 
Aristides x. 72 who quotes Plato; Antidotus, Athenaeus, 



for such a community to be brought about among 
men as it is in the other animals," and in what way it 
is possible ? " " You have anticipated," he said, 
" the point I was about to raise." " For * as for their 
wars," I said, " the manner in which they will conduct 
them is too ob\ious for discussion." " How so," said 
he. " It is ob\-ious that they will march out together,*' 
and, what is more, will conduct their children to war 
when they are sturdy, in order that, like the children 
of other craftsmen,'' they may observe the processes 
of which they must be masters in their maturity ; 
and in addition to looking on they must assist and 
minister in all the business of war and serve their 
fathers and mothers. Or have you never noticed 
the practice in the arts, how for example the sons of 
potters look on as helpers a long time before they 
put their hands to the clay ? " " They do," indeed. 
" Should these then be more concerned than our 
guardians to train the children by obser^-ation and 
experience of what is to be their proper business ? " 
" That would be ridiculous," he said. " But, further, 
when it comes to fighting, every creature mil do 
better in the presence of its offspring ? " " That is 
so, but the risk, Socrates, is not slight, in the event 
of disasters such as may happen in war, that, losing 
their children as well as themselves, they make it 
impossible for the remnant of the state to recover." 
" What you say is true," I repUed ; " but, in the 

240 B, where the parasite boasts that he was a iraidouadris in 
his art, and Sosipater, Athenaeus 377 f, where the cook 
makes the same boast, Phocyl. frag. 13 (Edmonds, Elegy 
and Iambus I., L.C.L.), Henry Arthur Jones, Patriotism 
and popular Education, Kipling, From Sea to Sea, p. 361. 
Greek language and satire contrasted such iraiSonadeis v. ith 
the oipitiaOeZs or late learners. 



dAAa cri) Trpcorov fjLcv rjyeL TrapaaKevaareou to [xi] 
TTOTe KLvdvv€vaat; OuSa/xcDs". Tt'S'; et vov Kivhv- 
V€VT€ov, ovK iv S ^eXriovg eaovrai Karopdovvres ; 

C ArjXov §7^. 'AAAd afxiKpov o'Ul hia(f)€pei.v Kol ovk 
d^iov KivSvvov, dewpeZv rj fjurj to. rrepl rov TToXepiov 
TTalSa^ Tovs dpSpas TroAe/xi/coi)? ecrop^lvovs ; Ovk, 
dXXd Sta^epei irpog o Xeyets. Tovro p.kv dpa 
VTTapKTeoVy deojpovs iroXepLOV rov£ iralhas ttolclv, 
TrpoaixT]X'^^da6 at S' avrols dacfydXeiav, /cat /caAcD? 
e^ei* 7j yap; Nai. Ovkovv, rjv 8' iyw, irpcoTov 
fxev avrdjv oi rrarepes ocra dvdpcoTTOi ovk d/xa^ets' 

D eaovrai dXXd yvojjxovLKol rdjv arpareiaJv, oaai re 
/cat /xt) eTTLKLvhwoi; Ei/cd?, e0'»y. Ets p-ev dpa 
ras d^ovaiv, et? 8e rds evXa^rjaovrai. ^Opdcos. 
Kat dpxovrds ye ttov, rjv S' iyco, ov rovs (f)avXoTd- 
Tovs avTOLS imuTiqaovaiv , dXXd tovs e^vretpta re 
fcat T^At/cta LKavovs rjyep^ovas re /cat TratSayoiyous' 
eivaL. UpeTiei yap. 'AAAd yap, cfi'qaop.ev, Kat 
Trapd ho^av jroXXd ttoXXoZs St) lyevero. Kat pidXa. 
Upos roivvv rd roLavra, c5 (/)tAe, Trrepovv XPV 
TratSia ovra evdvs, Iv' dv tl Serj Treropievot aTTO- 

E (j>€vycoaiv . YVwg Xeyets; ^(f>'>]- 'Etti tovs lttttovs, 
rjv S' iyco, dva^L^aareov d)s vecordrovs, /cat 
SiSa^apievovs iTTTreveLV e^' tTnroiV aKreou eVt rrjv 
deav, pLTj 6vpiO€iSd)v pirjhe pLaxT]Ti,Kdjv, dXX 6 tl 
TTohcoKeaTdTCov Kat €vr]VLOjTdTU)v . ovTco yap /caA- 
Atard re dedaovrai to avTcov epyov, /cat da<f>aX4- 

" irpoafjLTjxavaadai: cf. supra on 4 14 b. 

* Trapd do^av : cf. Thucyd. i. 122 fjKLcrra b TroXefxoi cttI prjTois 
XwpeZ, ii. 11, iii. 30, iv. 102, vii. 61. 

" TTTepovi/: metaphorical. In Aristoph. Birds 1436-1438 



first place, is it your idea that the one thing for which 
we must provide is the avoidance of all danger?" 
"By no means." " And, if they must incur danger, 
should it not be for something in which success will 
make them better ? " " Clearly." " Do you think 
it makes a slight difference and not worth some risk 
whether men who are to be warriors do or do not 
observe w^ar as boys ? " " No, it makes a great 
difference for the purpose of which you speak." 
" Starting, then, from this assumption that we are to 
make the boys spectators of war, we must further 
contrive " security for them and all ynW be well, vdW 
it not ? " " Yes." " To begin ^nth, then," said I, 
" will not the fathers be, humanly speaking, not 
ignorant of war and shrewd judges of which cam- 
paigns are hazardous and which not ? " " Presum- 
ably," he said. " They vdW take the boys -svith them 
to the one and avoid the others ? " " Rightly." 
" And for officers, I presume," said I, " they will put 
in charge of them not those who are good for nothing 
else but men who by age and experience are qualified 
to serve at once as leaders and as caretakers of 
children." " Yes, that would be the proper way." 
" Still, we may object, it is the unexpected ** that 
happens to many in many cases." " Yes, indeed." 
" To pro%ide against such chances, then, we must 
wing <= the children from the start so that if need arises 
they may fly away and escape." " WTiat do you 
mean r " he said. " We must mount them when very 
young," said I, " and first have them taught to ride, 
and then conduct them to the scene of war, not on 
mettlesome war-steeds, but on the swiftest and 
gentlest horses possible ; for thus they will have the 
best view of their own future business and also, if 



arara, dv ri Bcrj, acodtjcrovrai jxeTO. TTpecr^vrepcuv 
Tjyefxovcov eTTOjxevoL. ^Opdcos, €(f)r], yuoi hoKels 
468 Aeyetv. Tt Sat hrf, clttov, ra Tvepl rov iroXepiov; 
TTcbs eKT€ov aoL rovs arpartcoTas npos avrovs re 
/cat rovs ttoX^plIovs ; o.p' opdwg [xol /cara^atVerai 
7] ov; Ae'y', e^^y, 7701' dv. AuTtov fxdv, elTTOv, 
Tov XiTTOvra rd^iv ^ oTrAa aTTO^aXovra -q ri rGiv 
roioxrrmv Troi.'qcravTa Sto, KaK-qv dpa ov SrjfjbLovpyov 
Tiva Set KadiaTavaL •^ yeojpyov; Ildvv [xev ovv. 
Tov Se ^dJvTa et? tovs voXefxiovs dXovra dp* 
ov oajpedv StSoi^at rots iXovai^ XPV^^'^'' "^V ^79^ 

B o Tt at' ^ovXcovraL ; KopuSfj ye. Tov Se dpicrrev- 
aavra re /cat evSoKipL-qaavra ov TTpcJorov [xev cttI 
arpaTetas vtto tcov avcTTparevopLevcov pbeipaKtcov 
re /cat TratScov iv pbipei vtto eKacrrov So/cet aoi 
Xpyjvai GTe(f>avcodrjvaL ; ^ ov; "Eyuotye. Tt Sat; 
he^ioidrjvai ; Kat rovro. 'AAAd roS', oTfiai, -qv 
8' eyci), ovKeri aoi So/cet. To ttoZov; To (^iXqaai 
re Kat (f)i,Xr]6i]vai vtto eKdarov. Yldvrcuv, e(f>7], 
fxdXiara' /cat TTpoaridrjpii ye rep vopup, ecjs dv 

C eTTL ravrr]s coat rrjs arparetas, p,r)Bevl efetvat aTT- 
apmjdrjvai, ov dv ^ovX-qrai ^lAetv, ti^a Kat, e'ctv ris 
rov rvxj) epd)v ^ dppevos rj d-qXelas, TTpodvp.6repos 
7] rrpos ro rdpiarela (f)€p€tv. KaAo)?, rjv S' iyw. 
on fiev yap dyadcp ovrt ydp.01 re eroifxoi TrXeiovg 
^ van Leeuwen : mss. deXovcri. 

" The terms are technical. Cf. Laws 943 d ff., Lipsius, 
Da^ attische Recht (1908), ii. pp. 453 flf. 

* eis Toiis iroXefxiovs : technical. Cf. inscription in Bulletin 
de corr. helle'nique, xii. p. 224, n. 1 tQv oKovtwv eis rovs 

" dypq. : the word is chosen to give a touch of Spartan, 
or, as we should say, Roman severity. Cf. Sophist 235 c, 


need arises, will most securely escape to safety in 
the train of elder guides." " I think you are right," 
he said. " But now what of the conduct of war? 
\Miat should be the attitude of the soldiers to one 
another and the enemy ? Am I right in my notions 
or not ? " " Tell me what notions," he said. " Any- 
one of them who deserts his post, or flings away his 
weapons," or is guilty of any similar act of cowardice, 
should be reduced to the artisan or farmer class, 
should he not ? " " By all means." " And anyone 
who is taken alive by the enemy * we will make a 
present of to his captors, shall we not, to deal with 
their catch "^ as they please ? " " Quite so." " And 
don't you agree that the one who wins the prize of 
valour and distinguishes himself shall first be crowned 
by his fellows in the campaign, by the lads and boys 
each in turn ? " "I do." " And be greeted with 
the right hand ? " " That, too." " But I presume 
you wouldn't go as far as this ? " " \Miat ? " " That 
he should kiss and be kissed by everj'one'*? " " By 
all means," he said, " and I add to the law the pro- 
vision that during that campaign none whom he 
wishes to kiss be allowed to refuse, so that if one is 
in love with anyone, male or female, he may be the 
more eager to ^vin the prize." " Excellent," said I, 
" and we have already said that the opportunity- of 
marriage will be more readily pro\ided for the good 

Aeschyl. Eumen. 148, Horace, \)des, iji. 5, 33 ff. Plutarch, 
De aud. poet. 30, says that in Homer no Greeks are taken 
prisoners, only Trojans. 

'' The deplorable facetiousness of the following recalls the 
vulgarity of Xenophon's guard-house conversations. It is 
almost the only passage in Plato that one would wish to blot. 
Helvetius, otherwise an\-thing but a Platonist, characteristic- 
ally adopts it, Lange, History of Materialism, ii. p. S6. 



7) TOLs dXXoLg /cat alpeaeis riJov tolovtoju ttoXXolkis 
TTapa rovs dXXovs eaovrai, Iv^ 6 Tt TrAetarot e/c rov 
TotovTov yiyvoiVTai, €Lpr]rai tJSt]. EtVojuev' ydp, 

XV. 'AAAa fJLTjv /cat /ca^' "Oixrjpov toZ<; TOtotaSc 

D SiKaiov Tifjiav rdjv vecov oool dyadoi. koI yap 

"Ofxrjpos Tov evSoKLfiijaavra iv ra> TToAe/xoj vcorotaiv 

Acavra €cf)rj SLTjveKeeaaL yepaipeaQai, chs ravTrjv 

ot/cetW ovcrav Ti,p,rjv ro) rj^covTi. re /cat avSpeio), 

ef -^s dfjia rep rcfxaadat, /cat rrjv la^vv av^rjoei. 

Opdorara, €(f)rj. HeiaofieOa dpa, rjv 8 iyd), 

ravrd ye '0[jii]pcp. /cat yap rj[j,€is ev re dvaiais 

/cat rois roLovroLS irdai, rovs dyadovs, Ka9 ooov 

dv dyadoi ^atVcov-rat, /cat vfxvoLS /cat ols vvv Srj 

E eXeyofxev ri,p,')]crofxev, Trpos 8e rovrots eSpais re Kat 

Kpeaaiv tSe TrAetots' heTrdeaoLV, Iva dfia rep ripbdv 

daKdjjJiev rovs dyadovs dvSpas re /cat yvvalKas. 

KaAAtCTra, e(f)r], Xeyeis- ^lev rdJv Se 8r) drro- 

davovrcov errl arpareias og dv evhoKipuqaas re- 

Xevrrjcrrj, dp* ov npcbrov fxev (l)rjGOjxev rod ■)(^pvaov 

yevovs etvai; Hdvrcov ye jLtaAtcrra. 'AAA ov Tret- 

aofxeda 'HatdSo), eTreiSdv rives rov roiovrov yevovs 

reXevrijaojaiv , dis dpa 

469 oi jjiev Saifxoves dyvoi eTTixOovioi reXedovaiv , 

eadXol, dAe^t/ca/cot, (f>vXaKes fieponojv dvOpcoTTCOv; 
UeiaoiJieda jxev ovv. AiarrvOofxevoi dpa rod deov, 
TTOJS XPl Tovs SaifjiovLOVs re /cat deiovs ridevai /cat 
TiVi 8ia(f)6pa), ovro) /cat ravrr) d-^ao/jiev fj dv 

« //. vii. 321-322. Cf. also viii. 162, xii. 311. 

6 Cf. 415 A. 

« Works and Days 121 ff. Stewart, Myths of Plato, p. 437. 



man, and that he -will be more frequently selected 
than the others for participation in that sort of thing, 
in order that as many children as possible may be 
born from such stock." " We have," he replied. 

XV. " But, furthermore, we may cite Homer'' too 
for the justice of honouring in such ways the vahant 
among our youth. For Homer says that Ajax, who 
had distinguished himself in the war, was honoured 
with the long chine, assuming that the most 
fitting meed for a brave man in the prime of his 
youth is that from which both honour and strength 
will accrue to him." " Most rightly," he said. " We 
will then," said I, " take Homer as our guide in this 
at least. We, too, at sacrifices and on other like 
occasions, will reward the good so far as they have 
proved themselves good with hymns and the other 
privileges of which we have just spoken, and also 
with seats of honour and meat and full cups, so as to 
combine physical training with honour for the good, 
both men and women." " Nothing could be better," 
he said. " Very well ; and of those who die on cam- 
paign, if anyone's death has been especially glorious, 
shall we not, to begin with, affirm that he belongs to 
the golden race * ? " " By all means." " And shall 
we not beheve Hesiod "= who tells us that when any- 
one of this race dies, so it is that they become 

Hallowed spirits dwelling on earth, averters of evil. 
Guardians watchful and gopd of articulate-speaking 
mortals ? " 

" We certainly shall believe him." " We will inquire 
of Apollo,'' then, how and with what distinction we 
are to bury men of more than human, of di\ine, 
qualities, and deal with them according to his 
* C/. 427 B-c. 



e^TqyfJTat; Ti 8' ov /xeAAojLiev; Kat tov Xoittov 
St] xpovov (1)5 BaifjLovcov ovtco depaTTCvaofiev re Kat 
B TTpoaKwrjcrofxev avrcov to.? d-qKas' ravra 8e ravra 
vofxiovfiev, orav ris y^po. rj rivi aAAoj TpoTTO) 
TcXevrrjcrrj rcbv oaoi av hLa^epovrcjs iv tco piu) 
dyadol KpidoJaiv; AiKaiov yovv, e^Tj. Ti Sat; 


arpariu)Tai; To ttoIov Snj; Ylpcorov p-ev avhpa- 
TTohiapiOV TTepi SoK€L hiKaiov "EAATyva? 'EAAr^P'tSas' 
TToXeig avhpaTTohil^eaOai, -q /atjS' ctAAry enirpeTTeLV 
Kara to hvvarov kol tovto edit^eiv, tov 'EAAt^- 

C viKov yevovs (f)eLheadai, evXa^ovpevovs ttjv vtto 
rcov ^ap^dpcov SovXeiav; "OAoi Kal ttovti, €(f)r], 
8ia(f)€p€i TO <j>eiheadai. M^^Se "EAA^^va dpa hovXov 
eKTTJadaL p,rjTe avTOVs Tot? re aAAoi? "EAAt^ctiv 
OVTCO ^vpL^ovXevecv ; Yldvv p,ev ovv, €<f>rj' p.dXXov 
y dv ovv OVTCO rrpos tovs ^ap^dpovs Tpe-noiVTO, 
iavTcov 8' dnexoLVTO. Tt 8at; oKvXeveiv, rjv 8 
iyco, TOVS TeXevTT^oavTas ttXtjv ottXcov, €7T€ioav 
VLKrjacxiaiv, rj koXcos ^x^t; -q ov TTp6(f)aaiv fiev toXs 

D BeiXoXs ^x^i' pirj npos tov p.ax6p€vov levai, cos tl 
Tcov SeovTcov SpdJvTas, oTav Trepi tov TeuvecoTa 
KVTTTd^coac, TToXXd Se rj^-q OTpaTOTreSa 8ta tt^p' 
TOLavT7]v dpvayqv drrcoXeTo; Kat jLtaAa. Av- 
eXevdepov 8e ov SoKel /cat (f)LXoxprjpo-TOv veKpov 
avXav, /cat yvvaiKeias re /cat apuKpds Siavotas to 


" i^fiyrjTai : cf. 427 c. 

^ TOV Xoiirbv Stj xP<>''°''' «/. Pindar in Meno 81 c, Phaedo 
81 A. 

« For this Pan-Hellenic feeling cf. Xen. Apes. 7. 6, 
Hellen. i. 6. 14, Aeschines ii. 115, Isoc. Panegyricus. 



response." " " How can we do otherwise ? " " And 
ever after * we will bestow on their graves the tend- 
ance and worship paid to spirits di\ine. And we will 
practise the same observance when any who have 
been adjudged exceptionally good in the ordinary 
course of hfe die of old age or otherwise ? " "That 
will surely be right," he said. " But again, how will 
our soldiers conduct themselves toward enemies ? " 
" In what respect ? " " First, in the matter of 
making slaves of the defeated, do you think it right 
for Greeks to reduce Greek cities'^ to slaverj^, or rather 
that, so far as they are able, they should not suffer 
any other city to do so, but should accustom Greeks 
to spare Greeks, foreseeing the danger*^ of enslave- 
ment by the barbarians ? " " Sparing them is wholly 
and altogether the better," said he. " They are not, 
then, themselves to own Greek slaves, either, and 
they should adWse the other Greeks not to ? " " By 
all means," he said ; " at any rate in that way they 
would be more hkely to turn against the barbarians 
and keep their hands from one another." " And how 
about stripping the dead after victor}* of anything 
except their weapons : is that well ? Does it not fur- 
nish a pretext to cowards not to advance on the li\ing 
foe, as if they were doing something needful when 
poking * about the dead ? Has not this snatching at 
the spoils ere now destroyed many an army ? " " Yes, 
indeed." " And don't you think it ilhberal and 
greedy to plunder a corpse, and is it not the mark 
of a womanish and petty ^ spirit to deem the body of 
the dead an enemy when the real foeman has flown 

"* For the following cf. Laws 693 a, and Gomperz, Oreek 
Thinkers, iii. p. 275. 

' KviTTd^wai : cf. Blaydes on Aristoph. Nubes 509, 
' Of. Juvenal, Sat. xiii. 189-191. 



fievov Tov €)(6pov, XeXoiTToros 8e o) e7roAe)uet; rj 
E otei TL hid(f)opov Spav rovg rovTO TTOiovvras tix)V 
Kvvcx)v, at rot's XlOols ols oiv ^XrjdoJaL )(aX€7TaivovaL, 
TOV ^aXovTOS^ ovx a.TTTop.evai,; Ovhk (jfiLKpov, e^t]. 
'Eareoi' apa ras veKpoavXias /cat ras" rcov avaipi- 
aeojv SiaKcoXvaeis ; 'Eareov fxevroL, €.<f>r], vrj Ata. 
XVI. OvSe fjLTJv TTOV TTpos TO, Upa TO. OTrXa 
otaofiev d)s avadrjaovTes , aXXcos re koI to. t<i>v 
470 '^XX-qviov , idv rt rj^itu p.eXrj rrjs TTpos tovs dXXovs 
"EXXrjvag evvotas' pidXXov 8e /cat (fyo^rjaofxeda, fxi^ 
TL fiiaapia fj TTpos lepov to. roiavra drro raJv oiKeciov 
<j>ipeiv, idv fi-q rt, S-q 6 Oeos d'AAo Xeyrj. 'Opdorara, 
€07y. Tt Sat; yrjs re Tpiiqaeois rrjs 'EiXXrjviKrjs 
/cat oiKLcbv epuTrprjaeaJS ttoZov ti aoi hpdaovaiv 
ol arpartcoTai Trpos tovs TToXefxiovs ; Yiov, €(f)7], 
So^av aTro^aivopuevov r]8ecos a.v aKovaaipn. 'Eyitot 
B li^v Toivvv, Tjv 8' iya>, hoKeZ tovtcov fxrjSeTepa 
TTOieiv, dXXd TOV eTreTeiov KapTTOV acj^aipelaOaf /cat 
u)V eVe/ca, ^ovXei aoi Xeyaj; Hdvv ye. OatVerat 
fioi, a)CTTT€p /cat ovojjid^eTai Svo raura ovajxaTa, 
TToXe/xos T€ /cat ardaLS, ovtco /cat eti^at hvo, ovTa 
^ The Mss. vary between ^aXovros and (idWouTos, which 
Aristotle, who refers to the passage {Rhet. 1406 b 33), 
seems to have read. It might be important in the class- 
room to distinguish the continuous present from the matter- 
of-fact aorist. 

" aTTOTTauivov : both Homer and Sappho so speak of the 
soul as flitting away. 

* The body is only the instrument of the soul. Cf. 
Socrates' answer to the question, " How shall we bury 
you?" Phaedo 115 cff. and the elaboration of the idea in 
Ale. I. 129 E, whence it passed into European literature. 

' Quoted by Aristotle, Rhet. 1406 b. Epictetus iii. 19. 4 
complains that nurses encourage children to strike the stone 
on which they stumble. C/. also Lucan vi. 220-223. Otto, 


away" and left behind only the instrument * with which 
he fought ? Do you see any difference between such 
conduct and that of the dogs '^ who snarl at the 
stones that hit them but don't touch the thrower ? " 
" Not the slightest." " We must abandon, then, the 
plundering of corpses and the refusal to permit their 
burial.** " " By heaven, we certainly must," he said. 
XVI. "And again, we will not take weapons to 
the temples for dedicatory * offerings, especially the 
weapons of Greeks, if we are at all concerned to 
preserve friendly relations with the other Greeks. 
Rather we shall fear that there is pollution in 
bringing such offerings to the temples from our 
kind unless in a case where the god bids other- 
>vise./ " " Most rightly," he said. " And in the 
matter of devastating the land of Greeks and burn- 
ing their houses, how will your soldiers deal with their 
enemies." " I would gladly hear your opinion of 
that." " In my view," said I, " they ought to do 
neither, but confine themselves to taking away the 
annual harvest. Shall I tell you why ? " " Do." 
" In my opinion, just as we have the two terms, war 
and faction, so there are also two things, distinguished 

Sprichworter der Romer, p. 70, cites Pliny, N.H. xxix. 102, 
and Pacuv. v. 38, Ribb. Trag.^ Cf. Montaigne i. 4, " Ainsin 
emporte les bestes leur rage a s'attaquer a la pierre et au fer 
qui les a blecees." 

"* Plato as a boy may have heard of the Thebans' refusal 
to allow the Athenians to hurt their dead after Delium. 
Cf. Thucyd. iv. 97-101, and Eurip. Supplices. 

* For the practice cf. Aeschyl. Septem 215-219 and Ag. 
577-579. Italian cities and American states have restored to 
one another the flags so dedicated from old wars. Cf. Cic. 
De invent, ii. 70 "at tamen aeternum inimicitiarum monu- 
mentum Graios de Graiis statuere non oportet." 

•^ For similar caution cf. on 427 b-c. 



€7tI Svolv TivoLV Bi.acf)opaiv . Xeyo) Se to, Svo to 
/JLCV oIk€lov Kal ^vyyeves, to 8e aXXorpLOV Kal 
oQvelov. 6771 fxev ovv rfj tov oiKeiov e^dpa ardoLs 
K€KXqrai, irn he rfj rov aAAorpiou TroXefJcos. Kat 
ovSev ye, e<f)7], oltto rpoTTOV Xeyeis. "Opa 817 Kal 

C et ToSe TTpos rpoTTOV Xeyco. (f)r]jjil yap ro fieu 
EiXXt]vlk6v yivos avro avrco olk€lov elvaL Kal 
^vyyeves, ra> Se ^ap^apiKO) odvelov re Kal dXXo- 
rpiov. KaXcos ye, ej>y]. "^XXrjvas p,ev dpa ^ap- 
^dpoLs Kal ^ap^dpovs EAAr^at TToXepielv jxa)(o- 
jxevovs re (f)rjaop,ev Kal TToXefiiovs ^vaei elvai, 
Kal TToXefMOV Trjv e)(6pav ravrrjv KXrjreov "KXXrjvas 
Se "KXXr]aLV, orav tl tolovto hpcoat, (fyvaei p,ev 
(f>LXovs elvai, voaelv S ev rco toiovto) ttju 'EAAaSa 

D Kal araaidt^eiv , Kal ardaiv ttjv TocavTrjv e^Opav 
KXrjreov . 'Eyco p,€V, e^rj, ^vyxoipa> oiirco vopiit^eiv. 
2/co77€i hrj, eiTTOv, OTi ev rfj vvv o/xoXoyovfievrj 
ardaei, ottov dv tl tolovtov yeviqTai Kal hiaaTrj 
ttoXls, edv eKdrepoL eKarepcov Tep,vojaLv dypovs Kal 
olKias ejXTTLTTpojaLV, cos dXLrrjpiojSrjs re hoKel rj 
ardais elvai Kal ovherepoi avrcjv (^iXoTToXiheg ■ 
ov yap dv rrore iroXficov rrjv rpo(f)6v re Kal {jlt}- 
repa Keipeiv dXXd [xerpiov elvat rovs Kaprrovs 

" I have so translated technically in order to imply that 
the Plato of the Republic is already acquainted with 
the terminology of the Sophist. Cf. Unity of Plato's 
Thought, notes 375 and 377. followed by Wilamowitz, 
Platan, i. p. 504. But most editors take 5ia<f>opd here as 
dissension, and construe "applied to the disagreements of 
two things," which may be right. Cf. Sophist 228 a 
ardaii' . . . Trjv tov (pvffei cri'77€J'oC'S ^/c nvoi biatpdopas 8ia<popd.v. 

'' Plato shared the natural feelings of Isocrates, Demo- 
sthenes, and all patriotic Greeks. Cf. Isoc. Panegyr. 157, 
184, Panath. 163; Menex. 237 ff.. Laws 692 c and 693 a. 


by two differentiae." The two things I mean are the 
friendly and kindred on the one hand and the alien 
and foreign on the other. Now the term employed 
for the hostihty of the friendly is faction, and for that 
of the alien is war." " What you say is in nothing 
beside the mark," he replied. " Consider, then, if 
this goes to the mark. I affirm that the Hellenic race 
is friendly to itself and akin, and foreign and alien to 
the barbarian." " Rightly," he said. " We shall then 
say that Greeks fight and wage war with barbarians, 
and barbarians with Greeks, and are enemies by 
nature,* and that war is the fit name for this enmity 
and hatred. Greeks, however, we shall say, are still 
by nature the friends of Greeks when they act in this 
way, but that Greece is sick in that case and di\'ided 
by faction, and faction is the name we must give 
to that enmity." " I will allow you that habit of 
speech," he said. " Then observe," said I, " that 
when anything of this sort occurs in faction, as the 
word is now used, and a state is divided against itself, 
if either party devastates the land and burns the 
houses of the other such factional strife is thought 
to be an accursed thing and neither party to be true 
patriots. Otherwise, they would never have endured 
thus to outrage their nurse and mother." But the 
moderate and reasonable thing is thought to be that 
the victors shall take away the crops of the van- 
It is uncritical then with Xewma^ (op. cit. p. 430) and many 
others to take as a recantation of this passage the purely 
logical observation in Polit. 262 d that Greek and barbarian 
is an unscientific dichotomy of mankind. Cf. on the 
whole question the dissertation of Friedrich Weber, PIcUotu 
Stellung zu den Barbaren. 

' Cf. supra 414 e, ilenex. 237 E, Tim. 40 b, Jmvds 740 
A. Aeschyl. Septem 16. 

VOL. I 2 K 497 


E acpaipeXadai rot? Kparovai tojv KpaTovyiivcxiv , KaX^ 
hiavoeiaOai ojs SLa?<Xayr]aofievcov /cat ovk ael tto-M 
XefiTjaovTcov . IloAi) yap, e^rj, rj fie poor epcov avrif] rm 
Sidvoia eKeivrjs. Ti 8e 8-q; e(f)r]v rjv av ttoXlv 
OLKi^eis, ovx 'KXXrjvls earai; Aet y' ayxT^v', c^t;* 
OvKOVv Kal ayadoi re /cat rjpiepoi eaovrai; S^dSpa 
ye. AAA' oi) (/)iXeXX7]ves ovhe oiKetav ttjv 'EAAaSa 
'qyrjOovraL, ovhe KOLVcovrjaovaiv covTrep ol a'AAot 
tepcov; Kat a(f)68pa ye. Ovkovv rrjv irpos rovs 
471 EAAT^va? Sta^o/adt' cos olKeiovs ardaiv rjyijaovTai 
Kal ovSe 6vop.daovai TToXe/xov; Ov yap. Kat (Ls 
ScaXXayrjaofxevoL dpa hioiaovraL; Haw {xev ovv, 
Eu/LtevcDs" §17 aa}(f)povLovau>, ovk eTTi bovXeia 
KoXaL,ovr€s or58' eV oXedpco, acjffjpovicJTal ovres, 
ov TToXe/jLLOL. OvTO)?, e(j)T] . Oi)S' dpa rrjv 'EAAaSa 
^XXrjves ovres Kepovaiv, ovhe OLKrjaeis ep.- 
7TpT]aovaiv, ovSe opLoXoy-qaovaLV ev eKdarrj TToXet 
TTavras e^dpovs avrols elvai, Kal dvhpas /cat 
yvvaiKas Kal TratSa?, dAA' dAtyou? det e^^povs 

B Tovs alriov? ttjs 8ia(f>opds' Kal 8td ravra Trdvra 
ovre Tiqv yrjv eOeX-qaovoL Keipeiv avrcJov, ws (j>iXujv 
rcx)v TToXXcbv, ovre ot/cta? dvarpeTreiv, dXXd p^expf- 
TOVTOV TTOLrjaovTai rrjv hia^opdv, p.expi' ov dv oi 
atTtot avayKaadcoaiv vtto rcov dvatTicov dXyovvrtov 

" Cf. Epist. 354 A, Herod, ii. 178, Isoc. Phil. 122, 
Panegyr. 96, Evag. 40, Panath. 241. The word is still 
significant for international politics, and must be retained 
in the translation. 

* Cf. Newman, op. cit. p. 143. 

" The same language was frequently used in the recent 
World War, but the practice was sometimes less civilized 
than that which Plato recommends. Hobhouse (Mind in 
Evolution, p. 384), writing earlier, said, " Plato's conclusions 


quished, but that their temper shall be that of men 
who expect to be reconciled and not always to wage 
war." " That way of feeling," he said, " is far less 
savage than the other." " Well, then," said I, " is 
not the city that you are founding to be a Greek 
city?" " It must be," he said. " Will they then 
not be good and gentle ? " " Indeed they will." 
" And won't they be philhellenes,^ lovers of Greeks, 
and will they not regard all Greece as their own and 
not renounce their part in the holy places common to 
all Greeks ? " " Most certainly." *' Will they not 
then regard any difference with Greeks who are their 
own people as a form of faction and refuse even to 
speak of it as war ? " " Most certainly." " And they 
will conduct their quarrels always looking forward to 
a reconciliation ? " " By all means." " They will 
correct them, then, for their own good, not chastis- 
ing them with a view to their enslavement ** or their 
destruction, but acting as correctors, not as enemies." 
" They will," he said. " They will not, being Greeks, 
ravage Greek territory nor burn habitations, and they 
will not admit that in any city all the population are 
their enemies, men, women and children, but will 
say that only a few at any time are their foes,'' 
those, namely, who are to blame for the quarrel. 
And on all these considerations they will not be 
willing to lay waste the soil, since the majority are 
their friends, nor to destroy* the houses, but will 
carry the conflict only to the point of compelling 
the guilty to do justice by the pressure of the 

(Rep. 469-471) show how narrow was the conception of 
humanitarian duties in the fourth century." It is, I think, 
only modem fancy that sees irony in the conclusion : " treat- 
ing barbarians as Greeks now treat Greeks." 



Sovvai SiKrjv. 'Eyo) fxev, e(f>'r], ofxoXoyoj ovrco 

SeXv TTpos Tovs ivavTLovs rovs rj^erepovs TToXiras 

vpoacjiepeadaf rrpos Se rovs ^ap^dpovs OJS vvv ol 

EAAT^ve? TTpos aXXriXovs. Tidchiiev Srj /cat rovrov 

C rov vojJiov rols (f>vXa^i, pbiqTe yijv rejxveLV fJiT^re 
OLKias ifiTTiTTpdvai; Qa>fX€v, €(f)r], Kal e'xeti' ye 
/caAco? ravrd re Kal rd TrpoaOev, 

XVII. 'AAAd ydp fxoc 8oK€LS, <S YiWKpares, edv 
Tts" crot rd roiavra iinrpeTTrj Xeyeiv, ovSeTTore 
pLvqoOiqaeadai o iv rep rrpoadev rrapojadpievos Trdvra 
ravra eiprjKas, ro d)? Svvarr] avrr] tj TToXireia 
yeveadai Kat riva rporrov rrore hvvarrf eirel on ye, 
€L yevoiro, Trdvr' dv eir] dyaOd TroXet fi yevoiro, 
/cat a av TrapaXeiTreig iyd) Xeyoj, ore /cat rols tto- 

D Xefxiois dpiar dv fxdxocvro rep -^Kiara dvoXeLTreLv 
dXX-qXov?, yiyvwGKovres re /cat ai/a/caAowTe? 
ravra rd ovopara eavrovs, dSeX(f)ovs, Trarepas, 
vleZs, el he /cat rd OrjXv avarparevotro , elre /cat 
€v rfj avrfj rd^ei elre Kal dmadev emrerayp-evov , 
^ofiwv re eVe/ca rots' exOpols Kal et rrore rt? 
avayKT] ^orjOeias yevoiro, otS' on ravrr) rrdvrjj 
dp,axoi dv elev Kal o'Lkol ye d TrapaXeiTrerai 
dyaOd, daa dv eirj avrols, opdj- dAA' cos epov 

E opLoXoyovvros Trdvra ravra on e'lr) dv Kal dXXa 

ye pvpca, el yevoiro rj TToXireia avrrj, p,7]Ken 

TrXeioi rrepl avrrjs Xeye, dXXd rovro avro t^'St^ Tret- 

pcopeda r^pas avrovs Treideiv, djs hvvarov Kat i) 

472 hvvarov, rd 8' d'AAa ;;^atpett' €d)p,ev. 'E^at(^i^S ye 

" It is a mistaken ingenuity that finds a juncture between 
two distinct versions here. 

* iravT . . . dyadd : idiomatically colloquial. Cf. Polit. 



suffering of the innocent." " I," he said, " agree 
that our citizens ought to deal with their Greek 
opponents on this wise, while treating barbarians 
as Greeks now treat Greeks." " Shall we lay 
dowTi this law also, then, for our guardians, that 
they are not to lay waste the land or burn the 
houses ? " " Let us so decree," he said, " and assume 
that this and our preceding prescriptions are right. 

XVn. "But ''I fear, Socrates, that, if you are alio wed 
to go on in this fashion, you will never get to speak of 
the matter you put aside in order to say all this, namely , 
the possibility of such a polity coming into existence, 
and the way in which it could be brought to pass. I 
too am ready to admit that if it could be reahzed 
everything would be lovely * for the state that had it, 
and I will add what you passed by, that they would 
also be most successful in war because they would 
be least likely to desert one another, knowing and 
addressing each other by the names of brothers, 
fathers, sons. And if the females should also join 
in their campaigns, whether in the ranks or mar- 
shalled behind to intimidate the enemy ,•= or as re- 
serves in case of need, I recognize that all this too 
would make them irresistible. And at home, also, 
I observe all the benefits that you omit to mention. 
But, taking it for granted that I concede these and 
countless other advantages, consequent on the realiza- 
tion of this polity, don't labour that point further ; 
but let us at once proceed to try to comince our- 
selves of just this, that it is possible and how it is 
possible, dismissing everything else." " This is a 

284 B, Laws 711 d, 757 D, 780 D, Aristoph. Acharn. 978, 
983, Frogs 302. 
• Cf. Laws 806 b. 



au, '^v 8' iyo), coairep KaraSpofX'^v CTTOiiqaa} €7tI 
rov Xoyov [jlov, /cat ov avyyiyvcuaKeis arpay- 
yevop,€va}.^ laws yap ovk olada, on fxoyis fioi 
T(o dvco KVjxare iK(f>vy6vri vvv to fieyiarov Kal 
"X^aXeTTOjTaTOv rr\<5 rpLKV/JLLag iirdyeis, o eTretSav 
iSjjs T€ Kal aKovarrjs, irdw avyyvwixiqv e^ets", ort 
eiKOTCJS dpa wkvovv re Kal eSeSoi/cr^ ovtco Trapd- 
So^ov XeyeLV Xoyov re Kal emx^ipelv SiaaKOTrelv. 
"Oacp dv, 6^17, TOiavra TrXeLco Xeyrjs, rJTTOV 

B d^edrjoei vcj)' rjjjicov irpos ro fxr] elireZv, Trfj Swarrj 
yiyveadai avriq rj TToXireia' dXXd Xeye Kai pur] 
Sidrpi^e. OvKovv, rjv S' eyu), irpwrov pueu ToSe 
Xprj dvapLvr^adijvai, ort rjpiels ^rjrovvres St/caio- 
avvrjv olov ioTL Kal dhiKiav Seupo rJKopev. Xprj* 
aAAa Tt TOVTO y'; e^^?. OuSeV* dAA' idv evpajf-iev 
olov iarL SiKaioavvrj, dpa Kal dvhpa rov hiKaiov 
d^Lw(Jop.ev prjSev Belv avTrjg eKetvrjs 8La(f)epeLV, 

C dXXd TTavraxfi tolovtov elvac, olov Si,Kaioavvr] 
ioTLv, 7) ayaTTT^CTO/xev, edv 6 ri eyyvrara avrrjs f) 
Kal TrXelora rajv dXXa)v CKeLvrjg fxeTexfj; Ovtcos, 
* ffTpayyevo/xivii^, " loitering." A rare word. See Blaydes 
on Aristoph. Acharn. 126. Most mss. read less aptly o-rpa- 
jevoixivi^, "my stratagem." 

" wcrwep marks the figurative use as nva in Aeschines, Tim. 
] 35 TLva KaraSpofiriv. 

" Cf. Introd. p. xvii. The third wave, sometimes the ninth, 
was proverbially the greatest. C/. Euthydem. 293 a, Lucan 
V. 672 "decimus dictu mirabile fluctus," and Swinburne: 
Who swims in sight of the great third wave 
That never a swimmer shall cross or climb. 

' cvyyvwfx-qv : L. & S. wrongly with 6rt, *' to acknowledge 
that . . ." 

"* Cf. Introd. p. xii and note d. Plato seems to overlook 
the fact that the search was virtually completed in the 
fourth book. 


sudden assault," indeed," said I, " that you have made 
on my theory, without any regard for my natural 
hesitation. Perhaps you don't realize that when I 
have hardly escaped the first two waves, you are now 
rolUng up against me the ' great third wave ^ ' of 
paradox, the worst of all. When you have seen and 
heard that, you will be very ready to be lenient," 
recognizing that I had good reason after all for 
shrinking and fearing to enter upon the discussion 
of so paradoxical a notion." " The more such 
excuses you offer," he said, " the less you ^\-ill be 
released by us from telhng in what way the realization 
of this pohty is possible. Speak on, then, and do not 
put us off." " The first thing to recall, then," I said, 
" is that it was the inquiry into the nature of justice 
and injustice that brought us to this pass.'* " " Yes ; 
but what of it ?" he said. " Oh, nothing,* " I replied, 
only this : if we do discover what justice is, are we 
to demand that the just man shall differ from it in no 
respect, but shall conform in every way to the ideal ? 
Or ^vill it suffice us if he approximate to it as nearly 
as possible and partake of it more than others ? " 

• 01-5^;' : idiomatic, like the English of the translation. 
Cf. Charm. 164 a, Gorg. 498 a, 515 e. The emphatic 
statement that follows of the value of ideals as ideals is 
Plato's warning hint that he does not expect the literal 
realization of his Utopia, though it would be disillusionizing 
to say so too explicitly. Cf. introd. pp. xxxi-xxxii, and 
my paper on Plato's Lmcs, Class. Phil. ix. (1914) pp. 351 
and 353. This is one of the chief ideas which Cicero derived 
from Plato. He applies it to his picture of the ideal orator, 
and the mistaken ingenuity of modern scholarship has 
deduced from this and attributed to the maleficent influence 
of Plato the post-Renaissance and eighteenth-century doctrine 
of fixed literarv kinds. Cf. mv note in the New York 
Nation, vol, ciii." p. 238, Sept. 7, 1916. 



€(f)rj' ayaTTT^crofiev. HapaSeiyfiaros apa evcKa, 
■^v 8' iyo), i^rjTOViJi€v avro re SiKaLoavvrjv olov 
ecTTL, /cat dvSpa tou reXecos Slkuiov el yevoiro Kat 
olos dv eir] yev6p.€vos, /cat ahiKiav av Kat rov 
dSiKioraTov, Iva els eKeivovg aTTO^XevovTes, otoi 
du rjpuv (jiaivajvraL evSaifiovias re Ttepi Kat rov 
evavTLov, dvayKal^copieda /cat Trepl rjixojv avrcbv 

D opioXoyelv, os div e/ceiVots o ti opLOioraros fj T-qv 
eKeLvoLs fjiotpav ofjLoiOTaT'qv e^euv, dAA' ov tovtov 
eVe/ca, ti^' dTToSel^cofxev d)s Sward ravra ylyveadai. 
Tovro [X€V, e(f)r], dXr^Oes Xeyeis. O't'et av ovv 
■^rrov Tt aya^ov t,a)ypdcf)OV elvai, og dv ypdi/jas 
TTapdSeiyjxa, olov dv e'irj 6 KaXXicrros dvdpcoTTOs, 
/cat Txdvra els ro ypd/xfia LKavdas drroSovs [Jirj exu 
aTToSet^ai, d)S Kal Svvarov yeveuOai roiovrov 
dvSpa; Ma At" ovk eyoiy , €<f)rj. Tt ovv; ov /cat 

E rjfMels, (f)afX€V, Trapdhecyfia eTTOLovp-ev Xoyco dyadrjs 
TToXectJs; Ildvv ye. ^Hrrov ri ovv otet rapids eS 
Xeyeiv rovrov eVe/ca, edv p,r] €XCop,ev aTToSei^ai, 
(Ls Svvarov ovroj ttoXlv olKrjaai ws eXeyero; Ov 
hr^ra, ecf)7]. To p.ev roivvv dX-qdes, 'qv 8' eyco, 
ovrcos' el he hr] /cat rovro TrpoOvpi-qOrjvai, Set ar]v 
xdpiv, aTToSet^at, ttt) p,dXiara /cat Kara ri hvva- 
Tcorar^ dv eirj, TrdXiv p,oL tt/jo? rrjv roiavriqv 
aTTohei^iv rd avrd SLopboXoyrjaai. To, vrota; 'A/a 

"An ideal in the plastic arts is used to illustrate the 
thought. Cf. Aristot. Poetics 1461 b 14, Politics 1281 b 10, 
Cicero, Orator ii. 3, Xen. Atem. iii. 10, Finsler, Platon 
u. d. aristotelische Poetik, p. 56. Polj^b. vi. 47. 7 gives a 
different turn to the comparison of the Republic to a statue. 
Plato is speaking from the point of view of ordinary opinion, 
and it is uncritical to find here and in 501 an admission that 


" That will content us," he said. " A pattern, then,** 
said I, " was what we wanted when we were inquiring 
into the nature of ideal justice and asking what would 
be the character of the perfectly just man, supposing 
him to exist, and, likewise, in regard to injustice and 
the completely unjust man. We wished to fix our 
eyes upon them as types and models, so that what- 
ever we discerned in them of happiness or the reverse 
would necessarily apply to ourselves in the sense that 
whosoever is likest them ^^^ll have the allotment most 
like to theirs. Our purpose was not to demonstrate 
the possibility of the reahzation of these ideals." 
" In that," he said, " you speak truly." " Do you 
think, then, that he would be any the less a good 
painter," who, after portraying a pattern of the ideally 
beautiful man and omitting no touch required for the 
perfection of the picture, should not be able to prove 
that it is actually possible for such a man to exist ? " 
" Not I, by Zeus," he said. " Then were not we, as 
we say, trying to create in words the pattern of a 
good state ? " " Certainly." " Do you think, then, 
that our words are any the less well spoken if we find 
ourselves unable to prove that it is possible for a state 
to be governed in accordance with our words ? " " Of 
course not," he said. " That, then," said I, " is the 
truth * of the matter. But if, to please you, we must 
do our best to show how most probably and in what 
respect these things would he most nearly realized, 
again, with a view to such a demonstration, grant 
me the same point .'^ " "What?" " Is it possible for 

the artist copies the idea, which is denied in Book X. 597 e S. 
Apelt, Platonische Aufsatze, p. 67. 

» Cf. 372 E. 

" The point is so important that Plato repeats it more 



473 OLOU re ri TTpaxBrjvat (vs Xeyerai, t] (f)vaiv ex^t 
TTpd^LV Ae^eoj? rjrrov aXrjdeias icfidTrreadai, Koiv 
€L fiT] Tcp SoKci; dXXa av norepov ofxoXoyels 
ovTCog Tq ov ; ' fioXoyo) , €(f)r). Tovro jxev 8r] jxtj 
avdyKat,e fie, ola tw Xoycp hiiqXOojxev , roiavTa 
TTavTarracn /cat toD epycp Setv yiyv6p.eva diro^aLveLV' 
aXX , eav oloi re yevcopieda evpeZv, ojs du eyyvrara 
Tcov elprjpievcov tioXls OLKrjaeiev, (f>dvai rjpbds e^- 
evprjKevai, cus Sward ravra yiyveadai, d av eVi- 


rarrets. rj ovk ayairriaeL^ rovrcov rvyxavojv; eyco 

p-ev yap av ayancpr^v. Kai yap eyco, e<fir]. 

XVIII. To he St] pierd rovro, d)s eoiKe, ireL- 
pcLpeda /[^-qreZv re Kal dTToheLKVvvat, ri Ttore vvv 
KaKcbs ev rats rroXeai Trpdrrerai, hi o ovx ovrcus 
OLKovvrai, Kal rivos dv aptKpordrov puera^aXovros 
kXdoL ei? rovrov rdv rporrov rrjs noXirelas ttoXls, 
pidXcara p,ev ivos, el he pi-^, Suolv, el 8e pnq, 6 ri 
oXiyLcrrajv rov dptOpov Kal arpuKpordrcov rrjv 
C huvapuv. HavrdnaaL p,ev ovv, e(j)rj. 'Ei'OS' piev 
roivvv, rjv 8' eyco, pera^aXovros hoKovpcev pioi 
ex^i'V Sel^ai on pberaneaoL dv, ov piivroi apuKpov 
ye ovSe pahiov, Svvarov Se* Tivos; ^<j>l- 'Ett' 
avro^ hrj, rjv S eyco, elpi, o ra> pLeycarcp TrpoeiKa- 
^opiev p(;u/xaTf elp-qaerai S ovv, el Kal peXXei ye- 
Xoiri re drexvdis coairep Kvpa eKyeXcJov Kal dSo^la 
KaraKXvaeiv. aKOTrei he o pLeXXco Xeyetv. Aeye, 

^ itr avTo] the translation nearly enough fits both this 
and Burnet's reading iir' avn^ . . . el/xi. 

" Plato is contradicting the Greek commonplace which 
contrasts the word with the deed. Cf. Apol. 32 a, Sophist 
234 E, Eurip. frag. Alcmene X670S yap roCpyov ov vikS. ttots, 
and perhaps Democritus's \670s ipyov o-KtiJ. Cf. A.J.P. xiii. 



anything to be realized in deed as it is spoken in word, 
or is it the nature of things that action should partake 
of exact truth less than speech, even if some deny it " ? 
Do you admit it or not ? " " I do," he said. "Then 
don't insist," said I, " that I must exhibit as realized 
in action precisely what we expounded in words. 
But if we can discover how a state might be con- 
stituted most nearly answering to our description, you 
must say that we have discovered that possibility of 
realization which you demanded. Will you not be 
content if you get this ? I for my part would." 
" And I too," he said. 

XVm. " Next, it seems, we must try todiscoverand 
point out what it is that is now badly managed in our 
cities, and that prevents them from being so governed, 
and what is the smallest change that would bring 
a state to this manner of government, preferably a 
change in one thing, if not, then in two, and, failing 
that, the fewest possible in number and the shghtest 
in potency." " By all means," he said. " There is 
one change, then," said I, " which I think that we 
can show would bring about the desired transforma- 
tion. It is not a slight or an easy thing but it is 
possible." " What is that ? " said he. " I am on 
the very verge," said I, " of what we likened to the 
greatest wave of paradox. But say it ** I will, even if, 
to keep the figure, it is likely to wash*^ us away on 
billows of laughter and scorn* Listen." " I am all 

p. 64. The word is the expression of the thought. It is 
more plastic {infra 588 d. Lares 736 b) and, as Goethe says 
" von einem Wort lasst sich kein Iota rauben." 

* eipTJcrerat : so used by the orators to introduce a bold 
statement. Cf. Aeschines ii. 22, Demosth. xL\. 224, xi. 17, 
xiv. 24, xxi. 198, etc. 

* More literally " deluge or overwhelm with ridicule." 



e^T^. 'Ear fJii], Tjv 8' eyo), •^ ol <f)iX6ao<j)Oi jSacriAeu- 
D crcoaiv iv rals TToXecrtv t) ol ^aaiAets" re vvv Aeyo- 
/xevoL /cat Suraarat (f>LXoao(f}'qaaiai yvrjaicos re Kai 
tKavcbs /cat TOVTo els ravrov ^vfirrecrr), Svvafxts re 
TToXiTiKrj /cat (f)i\oao(f>ia, tcov 8e t-w nopevofievcov 
X<^pls e^' eKarepov at TroAAat (f)vaeLg e| dmy/cT]? 
aTTo/cAetCT^ajCTtt', oi)/c eart /ca/ccDv TrauAa, (3 ^t'Ae 
FAay/cajv, rats' TroAeat, So/coi 8' ou8e ra> dvdpcoTTLVU) 
yevei, ovSe avrr] rj TToXurela fxtj ttotc irporepov 
E <^yi7 re ei? to hvvarov /cat ^tu? rjXiov 'ISr), rjv vvv 
Xoyo) BieXrjXvOafiev. dXXa rovro ecmv, o ifxoL 
irdXai oKvov evriOiqaL Xeyeiv, opaJVTi ws ttoXv Trapd 
So^av prjd^aeTaf x'^Xcttov yap ISelv, on ovk dv 
aAAr^ Ti? evSaifjLOvqaeiev ovre t8ia ovre SrjixouLa. 
/cat OS, ^Q. llcoKpares, €<f)r), rotovrov eK^e^XrjKas 
prjfid TC /cat Xoyov, ov elTrdyv rjyov inl ae irdvv 
TioXXovs re /cat ov (f>avXovs vvv ovtcds otov pli/javras 

" This is perhaps the most famous sentence in Plato, C/. 
for the idea 499 b, 540 d, Laws 711 d, 712 a, 713 e ff. It 
is paraphrased by the author of the seventh Epistle (324 b. 
326 A-B, 328 a-b) who perhaps quotes Plato too frequently 
to be Plato himself. Epistle ii. 310 e, though sometimes 
quoted in this connexion, is not quite the same thought. It 
is implied in Phaedrus 252 e (piKoaoipos Kal ijyenoviKds, and 
Polit. 293 c, and only seems to be contradicted in Euthydem. 
306 B. Aristotle is said to have contradicted it in a lost 
work (fr. 79, 1489 b 8 if.). It is paraphrased or parodied by 
a score of writers from Polybius xii. 28 to Bacon, Hobbes, 
More, Erasmus, and Bernard Shaw. Boethius transmitted 
it to the Middle Ages (Cons. Phil. i. 4. 11). It was always 
on the lips of Marcus Aurelius. Cf. Capitol, Aurel. i. 1 
and iv. 27, It was a standardized topic of compliment to 
princes in Themistius, Julian, the Panegyrici Latini, and 
many modern imitators. Among the rulers who have been 


attention," he said. " Unless," said I, " either 
philosophers become kings " in our states or those 
whom we now call our kings and rulers take to the 
pursuit of philosophy seriously and adequately, and 
there is a conjunction of these two things, political 
power and philosophic intelhgence, while the motley 
horde of the natures who at present pursue either 
apart from the other are compulsorily excluded, 
there can be no cessation of troubles, dear Glaucon, 
for our states, nor, I fancy, for the human race either. 
Nor, until this happens, will this constitution which 
we have been expounding in theory ever be put into 
practice within the hmits of possibility and see the 
hght of the sun. But this is the thing that has made 
me so long shrink from speaking out, because I saw 
that it would be a very paradoxical saying. For it is 
not easy '' to see that there is no other way of happiness 
either for private or public hfe." Whereupon he, 
" Socrates," said he, " after hurling at us such an 
utterance and statement as that, you must expect to 
be attacked by a great multitude of our men of hght 
and leading,*' who forthwith will, so to speak, cast off 

thus compared with Plato's philosophic king are Marcus 
Aurelius, Constantine, Arcadius, James I., Frederick the 
Great, and Napoleon. There is a partial history of the 
commonplace in T. Sinko's Program, Sententiae Platonicae 
de philosaphis regnantibus fata quae fuerint, Krakow, 
1904, in the supplementary artV;le of Karl Praechter, 
Byzantinische Zeilschrift, xiv. (1905) pp. 479-491, and in 
the dissertation of Emil Wolff, Francis Bacons Verhdltnis zu 
Platon, Berlin, 1908, pp. 60 ff. 

* Plato's condescension to the ordinary mind that cannot 
be expected to understand often finds expression in this 
form. Cf. supra 366 c, infra 489 c, Theaetet. 176 c, and 
Rep. 495 E d»'d7(C77. 

* Lit. " many and not slight men." 



474 ra ifidrLa yvfivovg, Xa^ovras o tl e/cctcrTO) Trap- 
ervx^v ottXov, 9elv Siarerafjievovs co? davfxdaia 
epyaaofxevovg- ovs ei jxr] dfjLVvel tw Xoyo) /cat 
€K(f)€v^e(., Tu> ovri TCodal,6fi€vos ScoaeLs Slkt]v. 
OvKovv av fiot, Tjv 8' eyd), tovtojv a'ircos; KaAcD? 
y , e<^y], iyoj ttolojv dXXd rot ere ov rrpo^coaa), dXX 
a/jivva) ots SvvapiaL' 8wa/xat Se evvoia re Kai rip 
TTapaKeXeveadai, koL tacos au dXXov rov ejU.jU.eAe- 

B arepov aoi d7TOKpivoifjir)v. dAA' d)s ex<J^v tolovtov 
^orjdov 7T€Lpco TOis dTnoTovatv ivhei^aadai, on 
e;^et fj crv Xeyeis. YleipaTeov, -^v 8' iyco, erreiSTj 
/cat aif ovrco p.eydXrjv ^Vfifiax^oLV Trapex^t. dvay- 
KOLOV o5v fioL SoK€L, et /ue'AAo/xeV TTT) €K(f)ev^eadaL 
ovg Xeyeis, htopiaaaOai rrpog avrovs, rovg (jaXo- 
a6(f)0vs rivas Xeyovreg roA^to/i.ev ^dvai heZv ap;^etv, 
ii^a 8ta87^Acoj^ yevopLCVCjJv SvvrjTai Tt? dfivveadai 
ivSeiKvvfievos , on rolg piev TrpoarjKei (pvaei dine- 

C CT^at re (jyiXocjocfiias rjyepioveveiv r' iv TrdAet, TOt? 
8' aAAoi? j-fqTe aVrea^at aKoXovdelu re rep rjyov- 
pbivcp. "£lpa dv ^trj, €<f)7j, opit^eadaL. "Ydi Br), 
aKoXovdrjoov pLoi rfjSe, idv avro dpifj yd tttj 
LKavd)s €^rjyrjaa)p,€6a. "Aye, €(f)r]. 'AvapiLpivrj- 
aK€LV ovv ae, rjv 8' eyco, Sei^aei, r] pLepuvrjaai on 
ov dv (f)Copi€V (j^iXeZv n, Set <f)avr\vaL avrov, eav 
opddJs Xeyrjrai, ov ro p.ev ^iXovvra eKeivov, ro Se 
/xiy, dAAa rrdv aripyovra; 

" Cf. Hipponax, fr. 74 (58), Theophrast. Char. 27, 
Aristoph. Wasps 408. 

* Cf. Apol. 35 A, Theaetet. 151 a. 

* T^ 6vTi verifies the strong word rcoda^onevoi. 

<* Cf. Theaetet. 162 a 7. The dialectician prefers a docile 
respondent. Cf. Sophist 217 c, Parmen. 137 b. 

' TO 5i fxTj : for the idiom cf. Phileb. 22 a. Laws 797 e, 



their garments" and strip and, snatching the first 
weapon that comes to hand, rush at you with might 
and main, prepared to do '' dreadful deeds. Andif you 
don't find words to defend yourself against them, and 
escape their assault, then to be scorned and flouted 
will in very truth "^ be the penalty you will have to pay." 
" And isn't it you," said I, " that have brought this 
upon me and are to blame? " " And a good thing, 
too," said he ; " but I won't let you down, and will 
defend you with what I can. I can do so with my good 
will and my encouragement, and perhaps I might 
answer your questions more suitably <^ than another. 
So, ^vith such an aid to back you, try to make it plain 
to the doubters that the truth is as you say," " I 
must try," I replied, " since you proffer so strong 
an alhance. I think it requisite, then, if we are to 
escape the assailants you speak of, that we should 
define for them whom we mean by the philosophers, 
who we dare to say ought to be our rulers. When 
these are clearly discriminated it will be possible to 
defend ourselves by showing that to them by their 
very nature belong the study of philosophy and 
pohtical leadership, while it befits the other sort 
to let philosophy alone and to follow their leader." 
" It is high time," he said, " to produce your defini- 
tion." " Come, then, follow me on this line, if we 
may in some fashion or other explain our meaning." 
" Proceed," he said. " Must I remind you, then," 
said I, " or do you remember, that when we affirm 
that a man is a lover of something, it must be apparent 
that he is fond of all of it ? It will not do to say that 
some of it he likes and some * does not." 

923 c, Demodocus's epigram on the Chians, Aeschyl. Persae 
802, Soph. O.C. 1671, 



XIX, ^Avafiiixvi]aK€LV, €<f)r), co? eoLKe, Sei* ov 
D yap Trdvv ye ivvoco. "AAAoi, elrrov, enpeTrev, c5 
TXavKcov, Xiyeiv a Xiyeis' dvSpl 8' ipcoriKO) ov 
7Tpe7T€L afxvr^fioveLV, on Trdvres ol iv copa tov 
^lAoTTatSa /cat ipcoriKov dfxfj ye 777^ SdKuovai re 
/cat KLVovai, SoKovvres a^tot etvat eTT-t/AeAeta? tc 
/cat Tou daTrd^eadai. ^ ov^ ovtco TTOtetre rrpo? 
Tou? /caAou?; o /ier, ort aipios, iTri^apis KXrjdels 
eTraivedrjaeraL vc/)* vficav, tov Se to ypvTTOV ^a- 
aiXiKov (J^are elvai,, rov 8e hrj Sta p^eaov tovtojv 
E €[xp.erp6rara ^x^lv, fxeXavas Se dvSpt/cous" tSeti', 
Aey/coys' Se decov TTolSas elvai' [xeXix^^^povs Se /cat 
Tovvopia otei rti'os aAAou TTOirjfxa elvai, t] ipaarov 


ojxpoTTjTa, eav cttl ojpa fj; /cat evl Xoyo) Trdaas 
475 7Tpo(l>dcj€is TTpo(j)aait,ea9e re /cat Traaas' (f>a)vds 
a^t'ere, cacrre jxrjbeva diro^dXXeiv rdjv dvdovvrojv 
€v djpa. Et ^ovXei, €(f)rj, evr' eyuou Ae'yetv Trepl rcov 
ipcDTLKCov OTL ovTOj TTOtouCTt, avyxcopco TOV Xoyov 
Xo-pcv. It oat; t^v o eyac rovg (ptAotvovs ov ra 
avrd ravra TToiovvrag opas, Trdvra olvov inl Trdarjs 
7rpo(f)daea)s da7Tat,ofX€vovs ; Kat fidXa. Kat firjv 
(f>iXoTCfxovs ye, cos eycLfxai, Kadopas, on, dv fir] 
(TTparrjyrjaaL SvvcovraL, rpLTTvapxovai,, /car jjltj 
B v7t6 fjLei^ovcov /cat aejxvoripcov np,dadaL, vtto 

" Another of the famous sentences that would be worth 
a monograph. Cf. Lucretius iv. 1160, Moliere, Misan- 
thrope, ii. 5, Horace, Sat. i. 338. F. Brunetiere, Les l^poques 
du theatre fran^ais, p. 76, thinks that Moliere took it from 
Scarron, not from Lucretius. Shakes. Much Ado, in. i. 
reverses the conceit, Santayana, Reason in Society, p. 25, 
writes prettily about it. 

* Cf. Aristot. Eth. i. 8. 10 eK&ffTui 5' ^cttIv ijdii irpbs 6 X^yerai 
(piXoToiovTos. Cf. the old Latin hexameters — 


XIX. " I think you >vill have to remind me," he 
said, " for I don't apprehend at all." " That reply, 
Glaucon," said I, " befitted another rather than you. 
It does not become a lover to forget that all adoles- 
cents in some sort sting and stir the amorous lover 
of youth and appear to him deserving of his attention 
and desirable. Is not that your ' reaction ' to the 
fair ? One, because his nose is tip-tilted," you will 
praise as piquant, the beak of another you pronounce 
right-royal, the intermediate t)^e you say strikes the 
harmonious mean, the swarthy are of manly aspect, 
the white are children of the gods divinely fair, and as 
for honey-hued, do you suppose the very word is 
anything but the euphemistic invention of some lover 
who can feel no distaste for sallowness when it 
accompanies the blooming time of youth ? And, in 
short, there is no pretext you do not allege and there 
is nothing you shrink from saying to justify you in not 
rejecting any who are in the bloom of their prime." 
" If it is your pleasure," he said, " to take me as your 
example of this trait in lovers, I admit it for the sake 
of the argument." " Again," said I, " do you not 
observe the same thing in the lovers of wine ? ^ They 
welcome every wine on any pretext." " They do, 
indeed." " And so I take it you have observed that 
men who are covetous of honour,*^ if they can't get 
themselves elected generals, are captains of a com- 
pany .'* And if they can't be honoured by great men 

Si bene quid memini causae sunt quinque bibendi : 
Hospitis adventus, praesens sitis atque futura, 
Aut vini bonitas, aut quaelibet altera causa. 

* Cf. Theophrastus, Char. 21 (Loeb) /juKpo^iXorifjiiai, petty 

"* TpLTTvapxov<Ti, "command the soldiers of a trittys" or 
third of one of the ten tribes. 

VOL. I 2 L 513 


a^iKporepojv /cat <f)avXor€pcov rificofievoi ayarrcoaiv , 
d)S oXojs TLfjirjs eTnOvfi-qral ovreg. iiofiiSfj fxev ovv. 
TovTO 8r) (f>d9i rj ii-q- a.p' ov av tlvos eTndvfirjriKov 
Xeycofxev, rravTOS rov etSovs rovrov ^rjaojxev Itti- 
dvjxelv, T] rov /xeV, tov 8e ov; Ylavros, ^<i>Ti'l- 
OvKovv Kal TOV (f)iX6ao(j)ov ao(f)Las (fyrjaajxev ein- 
dvixrjTrjV elvai, ov rrjs [Jiev, rrjs S' ov, dAAa Tracn^?; 

C ^AXiqdrj. Tov dpa irepl to. /xa^i^/xara 8ucr;^epat- 
vovra, dXXcos re Kal veov ovra Kal fi-qino Xoyov 
exovra re re Xprjurov Kal fiij, ov (f)T]aopiev (f)cXofxadrj 
ovhe (f)iX6ao(f)OV elvai, oiaTrep rov rrepi rd crirta 
Svaxeprj ovre TTeLvfjv (f)ap,ev ovr^ eTndvjxeZv airiojv, 
ovhe ^iXoairov dXXd KaKoatrov elvai. Kat opOoJs 
ye (f)'iqaopLev. Tov he 8rj evxepcos eOeXovra rravros 
jxadrjixaros yeveaOat Kal dapievcog eirl ro piavdd- 
veiv lovra Kal aTrXriarcos exovra, rovrov 8' ev Sikt] 
^-qaopiev (j)iX6(Jo<j)ov . rj ydp; Kal 6 TXavKcov e(f)r], 

D rioAAot dpa Kal droiroL eaovrai aoi roiovroL- ot re 
ydp (f)LXodedfxoves irdvres e/xotye SoKovat r(p 
KarapuavdaveLV p^aipoi^res" roiovroi elvai, ot re 
(f)iXriKoot droTTcoraroL rives elatv o)? y' ev (f)iXo- 
a6(fjois ndevai, ol irpos p,ev Xoyovs Kal roLavrrjV 

" SufTxepaiVo^'Ta, squeamish, particular, "choicy." Cf. 
supra 391 e, 426 d, and Pope, Essay on Criticism, 288— 

Those heads, as stomachs, are not sure the best. 
Which nauseate all, and nothing can digest. 

'' Plato as usual anticipates objections and misunderstand- 
ings. Cf. e.g. on 487 b, 

" Cf. the argument in the first sentence of Aristotle's 



and dignitaries, are satisfied with honour from httle 
men and nobodies. But honour they desire and must 
have." " Yes, indeed." " Admit, then, or reject 
my proposition. When we say a man is keen about 
something, shall we say that he has an appetite 
for the whole class or that he desires only a part 
and a part not ? " " The whole," he said. " Then 
the lover of wisdom, too, we shall affirm, desires all 
wisdom, not a part and a part not." " Certainly." 
" The student, then, who is finical *' about his studies, 
especially when he is young and cannot yet know by 
reason what is useful and what is not, we shall say is 
not a lover of learning or a lover of wisdom, just as we 
say that one who is dainty about his food is not 
really hungry, has not an appetite for food, and is 
not a lover of food, but a poor feeder." " We shall 
rightly say so." " But the one who feels no dis- 
taste in sampling every study, and who attacks his 
task of learning gladly and cannot get enough of it, 
him we shall justly pronounce the lover of wisdom, 
the philosopher, shall we not ? " To which Glaucon 
rephed,'' " You will then be giving the name to a 
numerous and strange band, for all the lovers of 
spectacles'^ are what they are, I fancy, by \irtue of 
their delight in learning something. And those who 
always want to hear some new thing •* are a very queer 
lot to be reckoned among philosophers. You 
couldn't induce them to attend a serious debate or 

Metaphysics that men's pleasure in" sense-perception is a 
form of their love of knowledge. 

' <pi\riKooi : the word, like curiosity in Ruskin's interpreta- 
tion, may have a higher and a lower meaning. It is used 
half technically of intellectual interests generally. Cf. 
Euthydem. 304 b. The abstract (piXrjKota became a virtual 
synonym of culture and reading. 



BiaTpi^7jv GKovres ovk dv ediXoiev iXOetv, coanep 
ok oLTToixefiLaOcoKOTes ra (Lra iiraKovaaL TrdvrcDV 
Xopcjv TTeptddovai rot? Aiovvaiois, ovre rwv Kara 
TToXeLs ovT€ rcov Kara Kcofxas oLTToXeLTTOfievoi. 


E fxadr]TiKovs Kal rovs rcov Tex^vSpLajv (l)i.Xoa6(f>ovs 
<f)'iq(Top.€v; OvSafiojs, eiTTOv, aXX 6p.oiovs fxev 

XX. Toys' Se olXtjOlvovs, e^^, rivas Xdyeis; Tovs 
Trjs dXr]deLas, '^v S' iyco, (jaXodedpLovas. Kat tovto 
p,€.v y , kt^f], opdcvs' dXXd ttcos avro Xeyeis; Ov- 
Safico?, 'qv S' eyctj, paSici/s" Trpos ye dXXov ae 
Se OLfxai ofioXoyqaeiv p,oi to roiovhe. To ttolov; 
ETTetSi] eariv evavriov KaXov alaxpco, Svo avTcb 
476 elvai. TLcos 8' ov; Ovkovv ivetSr] Svo, Kal 
€v cKdrepov; Kai tovto. Kat -nepl StKaiov Kal 
dhiKov Kai ayadov Kal KaKov Kal TrdvTcov twv 
elSdjv 776/31 o avTos Xoyos, avTO p,€v ev e/caarov 
elvai, TTJ 8e tcjv Trpd^eojv /cat acofxdTcov Kal dX- 
Xi]Xcov KOLVoivia vavTaxov (f}avTal,6p,€va ttoXXo. 

° Cf. on 498 A, and in Parmenides 126 e, Antiphon, who 
studied Eleatic dialectic in his youth, but now gives his time 
to horses. The word diarpL^rj has a long history in phil- 
osophy and literature, starting from such passages as 
Charmides 153 a and Lysis 204 a. 

^ In addition to the presentation of new plays at the city 
Dionysia, there were performances at the Peiraeus and in the 

« Cf. Theaetet. 201 b 3, Sophist 240 b ov8a/ dXrjdi.i'ov 
ye, dXX' ioiKos /xiy. 

" Cf. Aristot. Eth. 1098 a 32 dearrii yap TdXridovi. 

' Cf. 449 c. 

^ Plato is merely restating the theory of Ideas to prepare 
for his practical distinction between minds that can and 
minds that cannot apprehend abstractions. He does not here 



any such entertainment," but as if they had farmed out 
their ears to listen to every chorus in the land, they 
run about to all the Dionysiac festivals,* never missing 
one, either in the towns or in the country-villages. 
Are we to designate all these, then, and similar 
folk and all the practitioners of the minor arts as 
philosophers ? " " Not at all," I said ; " but they do 
bear a certain likeness*^ to philosophers." 

XX, " Whom do you mean, then, by the true 
philosophers? " "Those for whom the truth is the 
spectacle of which they are enamoured,** " said I. 
" Right again," " said he ; " but in what sense do 
you mean it ? " "It would be by no means easy 
to explain it to another," I said, "but I think that 
you will grant me this." " What ? " " That since 
the fair and honourable is the opposite of the base 
and ugly, they are two." " Of course." " And 
since they are two, each is one.' " " That also." 
" And in respect of the just and the unjust, the 
good and the bad, and all the ideas or forms, the 
same statement holds, that in itself each is one, 
but that by virtue of their communion A\ith actions 
and bodies and with one another they present 
themselves everywhere, each as a multiplicity of 

enter into the metaphysics of the subject. But he does 
distinctly show that he is " already " aware of the difficulties 
raised in the Parmenides, 131 b fF., and of the misapprehen- 
sion disposed of in the Sophist 2S-2 fiF. that the metaphysical 
isolation of the Ideas precludes their combination and inter- 
mingling in human thought and speech. For the many 
attempts to evade aWiiXwv KoivujvLa cf. Unity of Plato's 
Thought, n. 244, and add now Wilamowitz, Platon, i. p. 567, 
who, completely missing the point, refers to 505 a, which is 
also misunderstood. He adds " mit den Problemen des 
Sopkistes hat das gar nichts zu tun; sie waren ihm noch 
nicht aufgestossen," which begs the question. 



(fyaiveadaL eKaarov. *Op9(Jos, ^^T)y Aeyet?. Tavrrj 

Toivvv, rjv S* eycu, Siaipoi, x^P'-^ H'^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^V 

e'Aeye? ^tAo^ea/xoi^a? re /cat <J)i\otIxvovs /cat 

B irpaKTiKOvs, /cat x^P'-^ "^ Trept c5v o Aoyo?, ou? 

jjLovovs av TLS opdaJs TTpoaeLTToi (jiL\o(j6(j)Ovs * Ila)?, 

€(j)ri, Aeyetj; Ot /xev ttou, 7]v S' eyco, (fiiXrjKOOi /cat 

(f)LXoded[xoi'es rds re /caAd? ^oivds daTrd^ovraL /cat 

p^pda? /cat ax'riP'O.ra /cat Trav'Ta to, e/c tcDi' toiovtojv 

hr)u.iovpyovLi€va, avTov 8e tou /caAou aSut'aTos' 

auTOJi^ t) oiap'ota ttjv cpvatv Loeiu re Kai aoTraaaavai. 

"E;^et yap ovv b-q, €(f>r], ovroig. Ot Se hrj eV avTO 

TO KoXov hvvarol teVat re /cat opav Kad avro dpa 

C ov andvLoi dv etev; Kat /xaAa. '0 ovv /caAa //.ev" 

TTpdypiara vofXLt,cjiJV, avro 8e /caAAoj jLtrjre vojjllCoiv 

fJL-qre, dv tis rjyrJTai eVi rrjv yvcocriv avTov, Svva- 

fxevos eTTeadai, dvap r) vnap So/cet ctoi ^t^v; aKorrei 

be. TO 6v€tpd)TTeiv dpa ov roSe eariv, eav re 

iv VTTVcp Tis edv re iyprjyopd>s ro dpLoiov rep p-t] 

opLOLOv aAA' avro rjyrjraL elvai S eoiKev; Eya> 

yovv dv, rj S' o?, (^aiqv oveipajTreLV rov roiovrov. 

Tt Se; o rdvavria rovrojv rjyovpievos re rt auro 

D KaXov /cat Sym/xero? Kadopav /cat auro /cat ra 

€K€LVOv p,€T€xovra, /cat oyre ra [xerexovra avro 

ovre avro ra fierexovra r)yovp,€vos, vTrap r] ovap 

av /cat ovros hoKeZ aoi ^fjv; Kat fidXa, e(f)r], 

VTrap. OvKovv rovrov p-ev rrjv hidvoiav d)s yiyvo)- 

CTKovros yvcop,'qv dv opOcbs (f>aLp,ev elvai, rod oe 

" " Le petit nombre des 6Ius " is a common topic in Plato. 
Cf. on 494 A. 

" ^ The dream state is a very different thing for Plato from 
what it is for some modern sentimental Platonists. Cf. 



aspects." " Right," he said. " This, then," said I, 
" is my division. I set apart and distinguish those 
of whom you were just speaking, the lovers of 
spectacles and the arts, and men of action, and 
separate from them again those %\'ith whom our 
argument is concerned and who alone deserve the 
appellation of philosophers or lovers of wisdom." 
" What do you mean ? " he said. " The lovers of 
sounds and sights," I said, " dehght in beautiful tones 
and colours and shapes and in everything that art 
fashions out of these, but their thought is incapable 
of apprehending and taking delight in the nature of. 
the beautiful in itself." " \Vhy, yes," he said, " that 
is so." " And on the other liand, will not those be 
few " who would be able to approach beauty itself and 
contemplate it in and by itself? " "' They would, 
indeed." " He, then, who beheves in beautiful 
things, but neither believes in beauty itself nor is 
able to follow when someone tries to guide him to the 
knowledge of it — do you think that his hfe is a dream 
or a waking ^ ? Just consider. Is not the dream 
state, whether the man is asleep or awake, just this : 
the mistaking of resemblance for identity ? " "I 
should certainly call that dreaming," he said. " Well, 
then, take the opposite case : the man whose thought 
recognizes a beauty in itself, and is able to distinguish 
that self-beautiful and the things that participate in 
it, and neither supposes the participants to be it nor 
it the participants — is his life, in your opinion, a 
waking or a dream state ? " " He is very much 
awake," he replied. " Could we not rightly, then, 
caU the mental state of the one as knowing, know- 

520 c-D, Phaedr. 211 d, Tim. 52 b, and 71 e, if rightly 



So^av to? So^d^ovTos; ITai^y fiev ovv. Ti ovv, 
iav rjfjuv ■x^aX^rraivrj ovrog, ov (jiafxev So^a^etv dAA' 
ov yiyvcoaKGLV, koL dix(/)i(Tp'rjTfj a*? ovk dXrjdi] 
E Xeyofxev, e^ofxev tl TrapafJcvOeladai avrou /cat Tret- 
deiv rjp€f.La eTnKpvTTTOfjievoi, on ovx vycacvei; Aet 
ye roL hrj, e(f}r]. "Wi S-q, aKoirei ri ipovfxev Trpog 
avTOV. 7] jSouAet (58e TTVvdavcofieda Trap* avrov, 
Xeyovres, co? et ti olSev ovSels avrco (jidovos, aAA' 
dafievoL dv 'iSoLfiev elSora tl, dAA' rjfxlv eiTre roSe- 
.6 yiyvcoaKOiV yiyvojCKei tl t] ovSev; av ovv pLoi 

VTTCp €K€LVOV dTTOKpLvOV. ^ATTOKpiVOVfXai, €(/)r) , OTl 

yiyvcoaKeL tl. YloTcpov ov rj ovk ov; "Ov ttcos 
477 ydp dv pLT] ov ye tl yvojadeLT] ; 'I/cav'cDs' ovv tovto 
exop-eVj Kdv el TrXeova)(rj GKOTTotfjLev, otl to [xev 
TTavTeXd)^ ov TTavreXdJs yvcooTOV, jjltj ov Se fxrjSapifj 
TTdvTT] dyvcoGTOv; 'iKavcoTaTa. Eiei/* et 8e St) 
TL ovTCOs e^eL (l)s elvai re /cat /lit) etvat, ov fxeTa^v 
dv KeoLTo Tov elXiKpLvcbs dvTos KOL Tov av fl-qSapLTJ 

" vpi/jia : cf. Symp. 221 b. Plato's humorous use of this 
word is the source of Emerson's humorous use of "gently." 

* For the humour of the sudden shift to the second person 
cf. Juvenal, Sat. i. " profer, Galla, caput." 

" To understand what follows it is necessary (1) to assume 
that Plato is not talking nonsense; (2) to make allowance 
for the necessity that he is under of combating contemporary 
fallacies and sophisms which may seem trivial to us (cf. 
Unity of Plato's Thought, pp. 50 if. ; (3) to remember the 
greater richness of the Greek language in forms of the verb 
" to be " ; and the misunderstandings introduced by the indis- 
criminate use of the abstract verbal noun " being " in English 
— a difficulty which I have tried to meet by varying the 
terms of the translation ; (4) to recognize that apart from 



ledge, and that of the other as opining, opinion ? " 
" Assuredly." " Suppose, now, he who we say 
opines but does not know should be angry and chal- 
lenge our statement as not true — can we find any 
way of soothing him and gently ** winning him over, 
without telling him too plainly that he is not in his 
right mind?" "We must try," he said. "Come, 
then, consider what we are to say to him, or would 
you have us question him in this fashion — premising 
that if he knows anything, nobody grudges it him, but 
we should be very glad to see him knowing something 
— but tell ^ us this : Does he who knows know some- 
thing or nothing ? Do you reply in his behalf." " I 
■will reply," he said, " that he knows something." 
"Is it something that is or is not "^ ? " "That is. 
How could that which is not be known ? " *! We are 
sufficiently assured of this, then, even if we should 
examine it from every point of view, that that which 
entirely ** ' is ' is entirely knowable, and that which in 
no way ' is ' is in every way unknowable ? " " Most 
sufficiently." " Good. If a thing, then, is so con- 
ditioned as both to be and not to be, would it not lie 
between that which absolutely and unqualifiedly is 

metaphysics Plato's main purpose is to insist on the ability 
to think abstractly as a prerequisite of the higher education ; 
(5) to observe the qualifications and turns of phrase which 
indicate that Plato himself was not confused by the double 
meaning of " is not," but was already aware of the distinc- 
tions explicitly explained in the Sophist (Cf. Unity of 
Plato's Thought, pp. 53 ff. nn. 389 flF.) 

■* TravTf\wi : cf. ur]5a/ and 478 d Trdin-on. Not foreseeing 
modern philology Plato did not think it necessary to repeat 
these qualifying adverbs in 478 b ^ dSiyaroi' Kai Bo^daai rb 
fir) 6v, which is still sometirties quoted to prove that Plato 
was "yet" naively unaware of the distinction between is- 
not-at-all (does not exist) and is-not-this-or-that. 



ovTOs; Mera^v. Ovkovv eVet^ em fxev tco ovri 
yvayats tjv, dyvcoaia 8' e^ dvd'yK7]s evrt firj ovri, 

B €771 TO) fxera^v rovro) fxera^v rt Kal ^t^tt^tcov 
ayvoias re Kal iTTi,aT'q[xr)s, et ti rvyxdvet ov 
roiovrov; Ilap'u fxev ovv. *Ap' ovv Xeyofxev ri 
So^av elvai; Ylwg ydp ov; tlorepov dXXrjv Bv- 
vafiLV €7TL(TT-qfJirjs rj rrjv avr'qv; "AXXrjv. 'Ett' 
aAAo) dpa TeraKTai So^a Kal iir* aXXco iTTtaTrjijir], 
Kara rrjv dXXrjv Svvafiiv eKarepa rrjv avrrjs. 
OvTco. Ovkovv eTTiarrnxrj fiev irrl rw ovti TT€<j)VKe 
yvajvai d)s eari to ov; fxdXXov 8e cSSe fioi SoKeX 
nporepov dvayKalov elvai SieXeadai. HdJs; 

C XXI. ^TJao/xev Swafxeis elvai yevos rt, rcov 
ovTOJV, at? 8rj /cat rj/jLeis hvvdjxeda a SvvdfieOa /cat 
aAAo Trdv 6 tl nep dv Svvrjrai, olov Xeyo) oiJjlv Kal 
aK07]v rcov 8vvdp.ea)v elvai, el dpa fxavdaveis o 
jSoyAojuai Xeyeiv to ethos. 'AAAo. fxavddvco, e(f>7]. 
Pi.Kovaov hrj, 6 fiot ^aiverai Trepl avTcov Svvd[xecos 
ydp eyd) ovre rivd XP^^^ ^P^ ovre ax'rjP'Ct. ovre ri 
r(x)v TOiovrwv, olov Kal dXXcov ttoAAcDv, -npos a 
aTTo^XeTTCov evta hiopLt, Trap' e/xaura) rd jxev 

^ iwil Hermann: Adam reads ei iwl, for which there is 
some MS. authority, Burnet iwl, which yields a harsh but 
possible construction. 

" Apart from the metaphysical question of the relativity 
of all knowledge, the word iiriuTrjixr) in Greek usage connotes 
certainty, and so Plato and Aristotle always take it. But 
more specifically that which (always) is, for Plato, is the 
" idea " which is not subject to change and therefore always 
is what it is, while a particular material thing subject to 
change and relativity both is and is not any and every 
predicate that can be applied to it. And since knowledge 
in the highest sense is for Plato knowledge of abstract and 
general ideas, both in his and in our sense of the word idea, 



and that which in no way is ? " "Between." " Then 
since knowledge pertains to that which is and ignor- 
ance of necessity to that which is not, for that which 
hes between we must seek for something between 
nescience and science, if such a thing there be." 
" By all means." " Is there a thing which we call 
opinion ? " " Surely." " Is it a different faculty 
from science or the same ? " " A different." " Then 
opinion is set over one thing and science over another, 
each by \Trtue of its own distinctive power or faculty." 
" That is so." " May we say, then, that science is 
naturally related to that which is," to know that and 
how that which is is ? But rather, before we proceed, 
I think we must draw the following distinctions." 
" What ones ? " 

XXI . " Shall we say that faculties,^ powers, abiUties 
are a class of entities by \irtue of which we and all other 
things are able to do what we or they are able to do ? I 
mean that sight and hearing, for example, are facul- 
ties, if so be that you understand the class or type that 
I am trying to describe." " I understand," he said. 
" Hear, then, my notion about them. In a faculty 
I cannot see any colour or shape or similar mark 
such as those on which in many other cases I fix my 
eyes in discriminating in my thought one thing from 

knowledge is said to be of that which is. It is uncritical to 
ignore Plato's terminology and purpose and to talk con- 
descendingly of his confusing subjective with objective 
certainty in what follows. 

* The history of the word dvvafus has been studied in 
recent monographs and its various meanings, from potenti- 
ality to active power, discriminated. C/. J. Souilhe, Etude 
sur le terme Suvoyutj dans les Dialogues de Platan, Paris, 1919, 
pp. 96, 163 ff. But Plato makes his simple meaning here 
quite plain, and it would be irrelevant to bring in modern 
denunciations of the " old faculty psycholt^y." 



D aAAa etvat, ra Se ctAAa* Swdixecos 8' ei? CKetvo 
[xovov jSAeTTCrJ, e^' (5 re eWt /cat o anepydt^eraL, koi 
Tavrji eKaarrjv avrwv Syva/jLiv eVaAecra, /cat TT7r 
)U,ei' eTTt rep avrcp Teraypevrjv /cat to avro oltt- 
€pya^op,€vr]v rrjv avr-qv koXo), ttjv Se eVt iripcp 
/cat erepov ajre pya^op^evrjv dXXrjv. ri §e cru; ttw? 
Trotet?; Ovrois, ecj^r]. Aevpo Srj TrdXtv, rjV S' eyco, 
o) dpLGTe. eTTLarrjpirjv TTorepov Swa/xtV rtva 0t)? 
E etvat avrrjv r) et? rt yevos rtdrjs; Et? tovto, €(l)rj, 
Traaojv ye hvvdp.€a>v eppcoixevecrTdrrjv. Tt Sat; 
So^av els Suva/jLtv rj els a'AAo elSos o'iaopiev; 
OvSapLOJs, e(f)r]' a> yap ho^dt,eiv Svvdpeda, ovk 
dXXo Tt •^ Sd^a euriv. 'AAAa puev 8rj oXlyov ye 
TTporepov (hpioXoyeis firj to avro etvau'^pL'qv 
re /cat 86^ av. Ucos yap av, e(f>rj, to ye dvapdp- 
TTjTOV TO) fMrj avapaprrjTcp ravrov ttot€ Tt? vovv 
exojv TLdeir); KaXcbs, rjv 8' eyo), /cat STyAov, OTt 
478 erepov einaT'^iirjs ho^a opioXoyeiTaL rjpXv. "Ytrepov. 
E0' erepcp dpa erepov rt Svvap,€vrj CKarepa avra>v 
7Tecf)VKev. AvdyKTj. ETrtorT^ltxr^ p,ev ye ttov e-m 
Tip ovTi, TO 6V yvcbvai ws e;^et; Nat. Ad^a Se, 
(f)anev,So^dl,eLV^ ; Nat. *l{ ravrov one p eTTtar-qp.r] 
yiyvojcyKei,, /cat earai yvcoarov re /cat SofaoToi' 

^ So^dfety] I translate Adam's 5o|dfet, but it makes 
little diiference. 

" Cf. my note on Simplic. De An. 146. 21, Class. Phil. 
xvii. p. 143. 

* Q/". Ion 537 d oiJrw /caXw ttjv fiiv aWrjv, ttjv di &Wr]v 

' (TTi : cf. Parmen. 1 47 d-e ^Kaa-rov rCov ovofj-drwu ovk etrl 
Tivi KoKels ; 

^ Cf. Protag. 352 b, Aristot. Eth. 1145 b 24. 

* For the various meanings of 56^a cf. Unity of Plato's 


another. But in the case of a faculty I look to one 
thing only — that to which it is related and what it 
effects," and it is in this way that I come to call * each 
one of them a faculty, and that which is related to ' 
the same thing and accomplishes the same thing I 
call the same faculty, and that to another I call other. 
How about you, what is your practice ? " " The 
same," he said. " To return, then, my friend," said 
I, " to science or true knowledge, do you say that it 
is a faculty and a power, or in what class do you put 
it ? " " Into this," he said, " the most potent of all ^ 
faculties." " And opinion^shall we assign it to some 
other class than faculty." " By no means," he said, 
" for that by which we are able to opine is nothing 
else than the faculty of opinion.* " " But not long 
ago you agreed that science and opinion are not 
identical." " How could any rational man affirm the 
identity of the infallible with the fallible ? " " Ex- 
cellent," said I, " and we are plainly agreed that 
opinion is a differ ent ' thing from scientific knowledge ." 
" Yes, different." " Each of them, then, since it 
has a different power, is related to a different object." 
" Of necessity." " Science, I presume, to that which 
is, to know the condition of that which is ? " "Yes." 
"But opinion, we say, opines." "Yes." "Does it 
opine the same thing that science knows, and will the 

Thought, p. 47 " the word 56^a may be used in this 
neutral, psychological sense; it may be taken unfavourably 
to denote mere opinion as opposed to knowledge, or favour- 
ably when true opinions and beliefs are set in antithesis to 
the appetites and instincts." 

' Plato reaffirms this strongly Tiin. 51 e, where, however, 
vovs is used, not firto-r^^ir;. Of course where distinctions are 
irrelevant Plato may use many of the terms that denote 
mental processes as virtual synonyms. Cf. Unity of Plato's 
Thought, pp. 47-49. 



TO avTo; rj aSvi'arov; 'ASvvarov, €(f)7], Ik roiv 
wfioXoyqjjievcov , etVep ctt' aAAoi dXXr] Svvafxis ire- 

B (jiVKe, SvvdfxeLS Se d^xtjiorepai iarov, So^a re /cat 
iTTLCTTTJixr], dXXr] Se e/carepa, cos (f>afjL€v Ik tovtcov 
Srj ovK i'yx<^pei yvcjoarov /cat ho^aoTov Tavrov 
etvai. OvKovv et to ov yvcoarov, dXXo Tt dv 
Bo^aaTOV rj to ov ei7]; 'AAAo. *Ap' ovv ro firj 
ov So^a^et; r^ aSui^aTOV /cat So^daat to fjir] ov; 
evvoet oe. ovx o oogaQwv evri ti (pepei Trjv oogav; 
■^ orov Te ay So^a^ett' fteV, So^a^etP' Se fjbrjSev; 
*ASvvaTov. 'AAA' €v ye tl So^a^et o Sofa^cor; 
Nat. 'AAAa iiTjV 117] ov ye ovx ^^ ''''-> oiXXd fxrj8ev 

C opdoTaT* dv TTpoaayopevoLTO. Wdvv ye. Mi) ovtl 
p.rjv dyvotav e^ dvdyK-qs dTTehopuev, ovtl Se yvdJaLV. 
^Opd(vs, e(f)r]. OvK dpa ov ovSe jxrj ov So^a^et. 
Ov yap. OuTe apa dyvoia ovTe yvcoaLs So^a dv 
eirj. OvK eoiKev. ' A.p ovv e/CTO? toutcov' earlv 
VTrep^aivovaa rj yvdJaiv oa^Tjveta ■^ ayi'otav 
daaffyeia; OvSerepa. AAA apa, -^v 8' eyo), 
yvcoaecos fiev aoi (jiaiverai Sd^a aKorcoSearepov, 
dyvoias Se (f)avorepov; Kai ttoAu ye, e<^rj. 'Ei^tos" 

D S' dp,<f)OLV KeZrai; Nat. MeTa^y apa dv eirj 
TovroLV Sd^a. Ko/xtS^ jxev ovv. Ovkovv ecjiapuev 
iv roLS vpoadev, et Tt (j^avetrj olov a/xa ov re /cat 

° Cf. Symp. 200 b, 201 d. 

" Cf. on 477 c. 

' Plato is, of course, aware that this is true only if /j.7] dv be 
taken in the absoUite sense. We cannot suppose that he 
himself is puzzled by a fallacy which he ironically attributes 
to the Sophists and to Protagoras {Tkeaetet. 167 a), and 
ridicules in the Cratylus 188 d and Euthydemus 286 c. Cf. 
Unity of Plato's Thoufflit, pp. 53, 54. As Aristotle ex- 
plicitly puts it, De interpr. 11. 11 to 8i fj^rj 61/ 6tl So^aarbv ovk 


knowable and the opinable be identical, or is that 
impossible ? " " Impossible by our admissions,** " he 
said. " If difi'erent faculties are naturally related to 
different objects and both opinion and science are 
faculties, but each different from the other, as we 
say — these admissions do not leave place for the 
identity of the knowable and the opinable.^ " " Then, 
if that which is is knowable, something other than that 
which is would be the opinable." " Something else." 
" Does it opine that which is not," or is it impossible 
even to opine that which is not ? Reflect : Does 
not he who opines bring his opinion to bear upon 
something or shall we reverse ourselves and say that 
it is possible to opine, yet opine nothing ? " " That 
is impossible." " Then he who opines opines some 
one thing.''" "Yes." "But surely that which is not 
could not be designated as some one thing, but most 
rightly as nothing at all." "Yes." " To that which is 
not we of necessity assigned nescience, and to that 
which is, knowledge." " Rightly," he said. "Then 
neither that which is nor that which is not is the 
object of opinion." " It seems not." " Then 
opinion would be neither nescience nor knowledge." 
"So it seems." "Is it then a faculty outside of 
these, exceeding either knowledge in lucidity or 
ignorance in obscurity ? " " It is neither." " But 
do you deem opinion something darker than know- 
ledge but brighter than ignorance ? " " Much so," 
he said. " And does it he within the boundaries 
of the two ? " " Yes." " Then opinion would be 
between the two." " Most assuredly." " Were we 
not saying a Uttle while ago ** that if anything should 

dXrjtiis diTitv 6v Tf 56|a 7dp airrod iartv, ovx 5ti 1<jtlv dW Srt 



fx-q 6v, TO TOLOVTOv fj,€Ta^v KelaOai tov elXiKpivaJs 
ovTOS re /cai rov iravrajs f^rj ovtos, /cat ovre 
iTnaTT^jji'qv out€ dyvoiav €77* avTW eaeadat, aAAa 
TO (jLera^i) av <f)av€v dyvolas /cat eTTLaTrjjXT]? ; 
Opdcjs. Nw 8e ye Tretfyavrai, fiera^v tovtoiv o 
hrj KaXovfji€v ho^av. Uecjiavrai. 
E XXII. 'EiKCLVo 8r] XeinoiT dv r^ixlv evpelv, cos 
€OLK€, TO dfx,(f>OT€pa)V fierexov, rov elvai t€ /cat ixrj 
etvai, /cat ovSerepov etAt/cptve? opdcos dv rrpoaayo- 
pevojxevov, tva idv (f>avfj, So^aarov avro elvai ii 
Slkj) TTpoaayopevoiixev, toZs /J-ev aKpois rd a/c/aa, 
Tots 8e fxera^v rd fiera^v dTToSiSovres' ^ ovx 
ovTOis; OvTcos. Tovrojv Sr) UTro/cet/xeVoiP' Xeye- 
479 Toj fJ-OL, ^iqaa>, /cat diroKpiveadoj 6 ;;^p7^CTT0S', o? 
auTO fjiev KaXov /cat tSeav rivd avrou /caAAou? 
fiTjhefjLLav r^yeZrai aet fxev Kara ravra ivaavrws 
exovaav, ttoAAo. 8e rd /caAa vo{xlI,€l, eKeivos 6 
(f)i,Xodedfxcov /cat ovhaixrj dvexofxevos, dv ris ev to 
KaXov (j>fj elvai /cat St/catov, /cat TaAAa ovroj, 
Tourwv yap Sij, (L dpiare, (f)'qaon€V, rdJv ttoXXojv 
KaXd)v ixdJv Tt eoTLV, o ovK alaxpov (f)avrja€TaL ; 



turn up" such that it both is and is not, that sort of 
thing would he between that which purely and 
absolutely is and that which wholly is not, and that 
the faculty correlated with it would be neither science 
nor nescience, but that which should appear to hold 
a place correspondingly between nescience and 
science." " Right." " And now there has turned up 
between these two the thing that we call opinion." 
" There has." 

XXII. " It would remain, then, as it seems, for us to 
discover that which partakes of both, of to be and 
not to be, and that could not be rightly designated 
either in its exclusive purity ; so that, if it shall be 
discovered, we may justly pronounce it to be the 
opinable, thus assigning extremes to extremes and the 
intermediate to the intermediate. Is not that so ? " 
" It is." " This much premised, let him tell me, I 
will say, let him answer me, that good '' fellow who 
does not think there is a beautiful in itself or any '^ idea 
of beauty in itself always remaining the same and 
unchanged, but who does believe in many beautiful 
things — the lover of spectacles, I mean, who cannot 
endure to hear anybody say that the beautiful is one 
and the just one, and so of other things — and this will 
be our question : My good fellow, is there any one 
of these many fair-and-honourable things that will 

" Cf. 477 A-B. This is almost a standardized method with 
Plato. Cf. infra 609 b, Charmides 168 b, Gorgias 496 c, 
supra 436 b, Phileb. 11 d, 66 e. Laws 896 c. 

* Ironical. Cf. Phaedr. 266 e. 

' TLva does not mean that the theory of Ideas is a novelty 
here or that the terminology is new and strange. It merely 
says that the type of mind that is absorbed in the concrete 
cannot apprehend any general aspect of things, avro and 
Kark Tavrd are the technical designation of the Idea here. 
Cf. my note on Phileb. 64 a. Class. Phil. xx. (1925) p. 347. 
VOL. I 2 11 529 


/cat ro)v ScKaLcov, o ovk dSiKov; Kal roiv ooicov, 
o OVK dvoatov; Ovk, aAA' dvdyK'q, e(f)7j, /cat KaXd 

B 7TC0S avrd Kal alaxpd (f)avrji'at, Kal oaa d'AAa 
epcoras. Tt Sat; rd ttoAAo, StTrAacrta rJTTOV ri 
rjfiLaea rj StTrAaata ^atVerat; OvSev. Kal /xeyaAa 
Br) Kal afXLKpd Kal Kov(J)a Kal ^apea fxrj rt p-aXXov, 
a av (f>-qaa)pi€v, ravra TrpoaprjdijcTerai. rj rdvavria; 
Ovk, aAA' dei, €(f)rj, eKaarov dfj,(J)OT€pa>v e^erat. 
Horepov ovv eari fxdXXov rj ovk eariv ^Kaarov tcov 
TToXXcov Tovro, o av ns <^fj avro elvai; ToZs iv 
Tat? eariaaeaiv, ^<l>r], eTrafK/jorepL^ovaiv eoiKC, /cat 

C Tw Tojv rraiSajv alviyixari ra> Trepl tov evPovxov 
rrjs ^oXrjs nepi rrjs vvKreplBos, u) Kal e^' ov avrov 
avrr^v aiVLTrovrai fiaXelv Kal yap ravra eTra/x^ore- 
pL^eiv, Kal ovr* elvat ovre [irj eivat ovSev avrcJov 
Svvarov Trayto)? vorjaai,, ovre dfx<j)6r€pa ovre 
ovSerepov. "E;\;eis' ovv avrols, '^v S' iyd), o ri 
XP'Tjctei, rj onoi dtjcreis /caAAtco deaiv rfjs fiera^v 

" Plato consciously uses mere logic to lend the emphasis 
and dignity of absolute metaphysics to his distinction 
between the two types of mind, which is for all practical 
purposes his main point here. If you cannot correctly 
define the beautiful, all your imperfect definitions will be 
refuted by showing that they sometimes describe what is 
ugly. Cf. Hippias Major 289 c and note on Rep. i. 333 e. The 
many concrete objects are this and are not that, and so with 
conscious use of the ambiguity of the copula may be said to 
tumble about between being and not-being. That this is 
the consciously intended meaning may be inferred from the 
fact that in Tim. 37 e, where Plato must have had in mind 
the conclusions of the Sophist, he still avails himself of this 
ambiguity to suggest an absolute being behind phenomena. 
Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, pp. 55, 56, 60, De Platonis 
Idearum doctrina, pp. 48, 49. * Cf. on 524 a, b. 

« The scholiast (Hermann vi. 34) quotes the riddle in two 
forms. It might run in English — 


not sometimes appear ugly-and-base " ? And of the 
just things, that ^vill not seem unjust ? And of the 
pious things, that will not seem impious ? " No, 
it is ine\itable," he said, " that they would appear to 
be both beautiful in a way and ugly, and so with all the 
other things you asked about." " And again, do 
the many double things * appear any the less halves 
than doubles ? " " None the less." " And like-wise 
of the great and the small things, the light and 
the hea\-y things— will they admit these predicates 
any more than their opposites ? " " No," he said, 
" each of them will always hold of, partake of, both." 
" Then is each of these multiples rather than it is not 
that which one affirms it to be ? " " They are like 
those jesters who palter with us in a double sense at 
banquets," he replied, " and resemble the children's 
riddle <^ about the eunuch and his hitting of the bat — 
Math what and as it sat on what they signify that he 
struck it. For these things too equivocate, and it is 
impossible to conceive firmly ** any one of them to be 
or not to be or both or neither." " Do you know 
what to do with them, then ? " said I, " and can you 
find a better place to put them than that midway 

A tale there is, a man yet not a man, 
Seeing, saw not, a bird and not a bird. 
Perching upon a bough and not a bough, 
And hit it — not, with a stone and not a stone. 

The key words of the answer are eunuch, bat, reed, pumice- 
stone. Cf. also Athenaeus 448 e, 45-2 e, Gifford on Eufhy- 
demus 300 d. It was used in the Stoic schools of logic, and 
Epicurus is said to have used it to disprove Plato's statement 
that either the negative or the affirmative of a proposition 
must be true or false. Cf. Usener, Epicurea, p. 348. 
* Cf. Theattet. 157 a. 



ovGLas re /cat tov /u,-)^ etvai; ovre yap ttov okotoj- 
hearepa jxtj ovtos npos to fxdXXov fxr] eivai (j^avrj- 

iJ acTat, ovre (jyavorepa ovros tt/Oo? to fiaXXov eluai. 
AXT]deaTara, €(^7). Eupr^/cajuei/ dpa, co? eoiKev, 
OTL Ta raJv ttoXXoji' ttoXXol vofiLfia KaXov T€ irdpL 
Kai rwu dXXcov jxera^v ttov KuXivSelrai. tov t€ 
fir] ouros Kal tov ovtos eiXiKpLvcos. ^vp-qKa/xev. 
Ylpooj/jLoXoyqaafiev Se ye, et ti toiovtov (f)avei7], 
ho^aoTov avTO dXX ov yvcxjOTOV heZv Xiyeadai, Trj 
fieTa^v SwajxeL to pucTa^v TrXavrjTOV aXiOKop^evov. 
'Q,pLoXoyrjKap.ev. Tovs dpa TroXXd KaXd 6e(v- 

E piivovs, avTO 8e to KaXov pirj opcbvTas /u-t^S' dXXco 
677 auTO dyovTL 8vuap,evovg e-neaOaL, /cat TToXXd 
hiKaia, avTo Se to Siicatov [xt], Kal navTa ovtco, 
So^dl^etv <f)TJaopL€P dnavTa, yiyvcouKeiv 8e cbi' 
8o^dl,ovaip ovhev. 'AvdyKrj, e^rj. Tt 8e av tovs 
avTa eKaoTa Oea)p.evovs /cat aet /caTO, TavTa 
(haavTCJS ovTa; dp^ ov yiyvojoKeiv aXX ov 
ho^dt^eiv ; 'Amy/cr/ /cat TavTa. Ovkovv /cat aoTra- 
t^eadai t€ /cat ^iXelv tovtovs p.ev TavTa (f)'qaopiev, 

" Cf. Sopldst 254 A ft? Tr}V TOV 1X7) OVTOS (TKOTeiVOTTJTa. 

* A further thought is developed here, suggested in 
479 A, B. Just as the many particular horses, trees or tables 
shift and change, and are and are not in comparison with 
the unchanging idea of each, so the many opinions of the 
multitude about justice and the good and the beautiful and 
other moral conceptions change, and both are and are not 
in comparison with the unalterable ideas of justice and 
beautj% which the philosopher more nearly apprehends. 
Thus, for the purposes of this contrast, notions, opinions, and 
what English usage would call ideas, fall into the same class 
as material objects. C/. Euthyphro 6 d, Phaedo 78 d, 
Parmen. 131 d, Gorgias 488 d to, tQiv ttoWwu dpa vSfxLfxa, 
Laws 715 B TO, TovTwv 8iKaia, 860 c rots fi^v toIvvv 
woWois etc., 962 d to, tCjv TroXecov (of states) v6/j.i/j.a. The 


between existence or essence and the not-to-be ? 
For we shall surely not discover a darker region than 
not-being '' that they should still more not be, nor a 
brighter than being that they should still more be." 
" Most true," he said. " We would seem to have 
found, then, that the many conventions ^ of the many 
about the fair and honourable and other things are 
tumbled about in - the mid-region between that which 
is not and that which is in the true and absolute 
sense" " We have so found it." " But we agreed 
in advance that, if anything of that sort should be 
discovered, it must be denominated opinable, not 
knowable, the wanderer between being caught by 
the faculty that is betwixt and between." " We 
did." " We shall affirm, then, that those who \iew 
many beautiful things but do not see the beautiful 
itself and are unable to follow another's guidance '^ to 
it, and many just things, but not justice itself, and so 
in all cases — we shall say that such men have opinions 
about all things, but know nothing of the things they 
opine." " Of necessity." " And, on the other hand, 
what of those who contemplate the veiy things them- 
selves in each case, ever remaining the same and 
unchanged — shall we not say that they know and 
do not merely opine ? " " That, too, necessarily 
follows." " Shall we not also say that the one 
welcomes to his thought and loves the things subject 

practical truth of this distinction is unaffected by our meta- 
physics. Plato is speaking of what he elsewhere calls the 
ei5ui\a of justice, beauty and the like. Cf. 517 d, 532 d, 
Theaetet. 150 b, and " The Idea of Good in Plato's Republic,'''' 
University of Chicago Studies in Classical Philology, i. p. 238. 

" Cf. Phaedr. 275 e, Phaedo 81 c, 82 e. Isocrates uses 
Ka\iv5iofia(. in similar contemptuous connotation, v. 82, xiii. 20, 
XV. 30. 

" Cf. Aristot. Met. 989 a 33 tms iTrdyovffiu aMv. 



480 e<p OLS yvojoLs eariv, e/cetvou? be ecp ois ooga; rj 
ov iJLViqyiovevo^ev , on (f)0jvds re /cat XP^^^ KaXas 
/cat TO. roiavra e^aj.Lev tovtovs cf>tXeiv re /cat 
Oedcrdai, avro Se to KaXov ouS' avix^odai &s n 
6v; Mefiv-qfieda. Mrj ovv tl TTXTjuixeX-^aofiev (J)lXo- 
So^ovs KaXovvreg avrous fiaXXov ^ ^iXoao^ovg, 
/cat apa rfixlv a(f)68pa ;^aAe77avoi'ati', av outoj 
Aeya>ixev; Ovk, av y ifiol TrelOcovrai, e(f>r]- ro) 
yap aX-ndeX vaXeTraiveiv ov Beats. Tovs avro apa 
eKaoTOV TO ov aa7TaL,ofxevovs (pLAoao<povg aAA ov 
(f)iXo86^ovs KXrjTeov; UavraTTaaL fiev ovv, 

' Plato coins a word which means " lovers of opinion." 



to knowledge and the other those to opinion ? Do 
we not remember that we said that those loved and 
regarded tones and beautiful colours and the like, 
but they could not endure the notion of the reality 
of the beautiful itself?" "We do remember." 
" Shall we then offend their ears if we call them 
doxophilists " rather than philosophers and will they 
be ver\' angry if we so speak ? " " Not if they heed 
my counsel," he said, " for to be angry with truth is 
not lawful." " Then to those who in each and every 
kind welcome the true bemg, lovers of wisdom and 
not lovers of opinion * is the name we must give." 
" By all means." 

* Isoc. XV. 271 is conceivably an answer to this. 


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MANETHO. W. G. Waddell. 

NONNUS. W. H. D. Rouse. 

PAPYRI: LITERARY PAPYRI. Selected and trans- 
lated by C. H. Roberts. 





CICERO: DEORATORE. Charles Stuttaford and W. E. 

CICERO : BRUTUS, ORATOR. G. L. Hendrickson and 

H. M. Hubbell. 


BALBO. J. H. Freese. 
PRUDENTIUS. J. H. Baxter. 

J. C. Rolfe. 





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