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THE LOEB CLASSICAL LIBRARY 

FOUNDED BY JAMES LOEB, LL.D. 

EDITED BY 
t T. E. PAGE, CH., LITT.D. 

E. CAPPS, PH.D., LUD. W. H. D. ROUSE, Lrrr.D. 
L. A. POST, M.A. E. H. WARMINGTON, ma. 



PLATO'S REPUBLIC 
II 



PLATO 

THE REPUBLIC 

WITH AN ENGLISH TRANSLATION BY 
PAUL SHOREY, Ph.D., LL.D., Lirr.D. 

L.ATE PROKESSOR OF GREEK, IXIVERSITY OF CnlCAGO 

IN TWO VOLUMES 

II 

BOOKS VI-X 




CAMBRIDGF, MASSACHUSETTS 

HARVARD UNIVERSITY PRESS 

T.OXDON 

WILLIAM HEINEMANN LTD 

UCUXUI 










c"^. ^' 



First printed 1935 
Reprinted 1942 



Printed in Great Britainf 



PREFATORY NOTE 

While actively engaged, so far as his failing strength 
would permit, in completing for publication this the 
second volume of his translation of the Republic of Plato, 
Professor Shorey passed away on April 24, 1934, in the 
seventy-eighth year of his life. In justice to him as 
weU as to the many thousands of readers who will study 
and cherish this last and perhaps the greatest scholarly 
work of the distinguished Platonist, the Editors of the 
Loeb Classical Library- desire to place on record here a 
brief statement of the pertinent facts relating to the com- 
position and the proof-revision of this volume. Behind 
the bare narrative lies a record of unwavering courage 
in the face of fast-approaching death on the part of the 
veteran scholar and of dauntless determination both to 
achieve a long-cherished purpose and to fulfil an obligation 
entered into many years before with his friend Dr. James 
Loeb and his collaborators in the editing of the Library ; 
and the Editors thought it right to offer this volume to the 
public as nearly as possible approximating to the condition 
in which the latest proofs passed under the author's eye. 

The translation had been finished and was in Professor 
Shorey's hands in proof form for about two years and had 
been partially, though not finally, revised by him. The 
Introduction was dictated by him, paragraph by para- 
graph, in the scant hours of work permitted him by his 
physicians after his first break-down in December 1933. 
The same is true of those notes accompanying the trans- 
lation which are of an interpretative, literary or philo- 
sophical character. The many notes on Platonic diction 
and on matters of Greek grammar and idiom were in 
large part compiled from Professor Shorey's jottings on 
the well-filled margins of his desk-copy of the Republic by 
his research secretary, Miss Stella Lange, who had assisted 



PREFATORY NOTE 

him in that capacity during the preparation of What 
Plato Said, to which important work she added many 
references in the notes of this volume. The critical notes 
under the text were added by Miss Lange during the 
revision of the proofs, often from notes made by Professor 
Shorey himself. 

The assembling in the form of copy for the printer of all 
the material which is found in the Introduction and notes 
has been the work of Miss Lange, undertaken at the 
request of Mrs. Shorey ; and she has read all the galley 
and page proofs of the volume in co-operation with Dr. 
Page and myself. Miss Lange 's familiarity with her 
teacher's Platonic studies, his methods of work, his views 
on the interpretation of passages of peculiar difficulty 
has rendered her co-operation invaluable, and generous 
acknowledgements are due to her for her fidelity to the 
heavy task which she willingly undertook. 

To the writer of these words it would have been a grate- 
ful task, had this been an appropriate place, to add a per- 
sonal tribute to his colleague of many years at the Uni- 
versity of Chicago. The familiar correspondence which 
grew out of their renewed relationship during the prepara- 
tion of the two volumes of the Republic has iUuminated for 
him in unexpected ways the life of tremendous and varied 
activities of the great scholar and humanist during the 
years which for the ordinary man would have been a 
period of decreasing labours. The literary and scholarly 

f)roductivity of Professor Shorey in these later years fails 
ittle short of heroism. But the readers of this interpre- 
tation of the Republic who would know more about the 
remarkable man and his life are referred to the review of 
his career which introduces the July 1934 number of 
Classical Philology, the journal which he edited for twenty- 
five years, and especially to President George Norlin's 
eloquent appreciation of " Paul Shorey the Teacher," on 
pp. 188-191. 

For the Editors 

EDWARD GAPPS. 

September 18, 1934. 
vi 



CONTENTS OF VOLUME II 



Prefatory Note 
Introduction . 

The Text 

The Translation 
Book VI. 
Book VII. 
Book VIII. 
Book IX. 
Book X. . 
I. Index of Names 
II. Index of Subjects 



PAGE 

V 

ix 

Ixxi 

Ixxii 

2 

118 

234 

334 

418 

525 

529 



INTRODUCTION 

There is a sufficient outline of the Republic in the 
introduction to the first volume. Here it remains 
to consider more argumentatively certain topics of 
the last five books which were treated summarily 
there. They may be listed as (1) the theory of ideas 
and the idea of good, (2) the higher education and 
Plato's attitude toward science, (3) some further 
details of Plato's political theories, (4) the logic and 
psychology of the main ethical argument of the 
Republic, (5) the banishment of poetry, (6) the con- 
cluding myth. 

Regarded as metaphysics, Plato's theory of ideas The xiieory 
is, technically speaking, the deliberate and conscious 
hypostatization of all concepts — the affirmation that 
every abstract general notion of the human mind is 
also somehow, somewhere, in some sense, an objective 
entity, a real thing, outside of any mind. Some 
philologians and some sensitive aesthetic critics 
object to the use of the words concept and hypo- 
statization in this connexion. They have a right 
to their personal distaste, but it contributes nothing 
to the interpretation of Plato. Both words convey 
definite meanings to students of philosophy and 
there are no words that can replace them. The 
Socratic dialogues are in fact largely concerned with 
the definition of concepts, general or abstract ideas, 

ix 



INTRODUCTION 

general terms, Begriffe, call them what you will, 
and some convenient synonym for this meaning is 
indispensable in any rational discussion of Plato's 
philosophy. The Platonic word eidos may have 
retained some of the associations of physical form, 
and the modern psychology of the concept may 
involve in some cases a more developed logic than 
Plato possessed. • The word eidos or idea in Hero- 
dotus, Thucydides, Democritus, the Hippocratic 
corpus and Isocrates * may show the meaning con- 
cept or Begr?^ imperfectly freed from the association 
of physical form, but that does not justify the in- 
ference that it was never so freed in Plato. The 
terminology of the transcendental idea is indis- 
tinguishable from the terminology of the concept 
and the definition.'' It is impossible to say at what 
point the metaphysical doctrine emerges in the minor 
dialogues, or — on the, I believe, mistaken hypothesis 
that the later dialogues abandon it — ^just when the 
change took place. The logic of the definition in 
the minor dialogues implies a practically sufficient 
notion of the nature of a concept,*^ and it is sophistry 

" Cf. Shorey, I)e Platonis Idearum Doctrina, Munich, 
1884, p. 1, and review of A. E. Taylor's Varia Socratica, in 
C?ass.P/ii7.vi.,1911,pp.361 fF.; Ritter, Neue Untersuchungen, 
Munich, 1910, pp. 228-326 ; Lewis Campbell, The Theaetetus 
of Plato, 2nd ed., Oxford, 1883, pp. 268-269 ; C. M. Gillespie, 
" The Use of Eidos and Idea in Hippocrates," Class. 
Quarterly, vi., 1912, pp. 178-203; Zeller, ii. l\ pp. 658, n. 2 
and 661, n. 1; Wilamowitz, Platon, ii. pp. 248 ff.; Fried- 
lander, Platon, i. pp. 16 fF. 

* Cf. What Plato Said, p. 75. 

« It is hard to understand the acceptance by several 
scholars of Stenzel's view that the concept and consequently 
the idea is a late discovery in the Platonic dialogues, a result 
in fact of the analyses of the Sophist. He must take concept 



INTRODUCTION 

to trv to suppress so plain a fact by capitalizing the 
word Form and insisting that Plato always or till 
his latest works visualized the " Forms " as t\-pes. 
He did for some purposes and for others he did not, 
and he always knew what he was doing. The ideas, 
as I have often pointed out, are ideals, types, or 
hypostatized concepts or simply concepts according 
to the purpose and the context." 

Many interpreters of Plato seem to assume that 
philosophy is, like mathematics or chemistry, a pro- 

in some very esoteric significance. For to common sense 
nothing can be plainer than that the concept is implied in 
Socrates' attempts to define ethical terijns and that it distinctly 
emerges together with the terminology at least of the idea in 
the minor dialogues of Plato and especially in the Euthyphro. 
Stenzel's thought seems to be that the concept involves 
predication and that predication can be fully understood only 
after the analysis of sentence structure in the Sophist and the 
discovery of the meaning of " is." But surely the conscious 
analysis of sentence structure and the function of the copula 
is one thing and the correct use of predication, of propositions 
and the conversion of propositions and their combination in 
virtual syllogisms is another. All the elements of a sound 
logic are present in Plato's minor dialogues. They are 
correctly employed in inductive and deductive reasoning, in 
the quest for definitions and in the testing of them when 
found. If Stenzel means that the nature of the concept, of 
the general idea, of abstractions is not definitively understood 
in the minor dialogues his postulate proves or demands too 
much. The ultimate nature of the concept is still debatetl 
to-day. But for all practical purposes of common sense any 
one who consistently endeavours to define abstract and 
general terms and who applies a sound logic to the testing of 
the definitions proposed, has a suflBcient notion of the concept. 
And anyone who apprehends the concept may go on to 
hypostatize it either by an instinctive tendency of human 
nature and speech, or with conscious metaphysics as Plato 
did. 

• Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, pp. 27 flF. 
VOL. n 6 xi 



INTRODUCTION 

gressive science ; that Plato, though a great artist, 
was a primitive thinker whose methods and opinions 
have only an historical interest to-day ; and that his 
doctrine of ideas is the endeavour of an immature 
mind to deal with a problem which modern psych- 
ology or the common sense of any dissertation- 
writing philologian can settle in a paragraph. These 
assumptions close the door to any real understand- 
ing of Plato's philosophy. The ultimate nature of 
general ideas, of abstract and conceptual thought in 
relation both to the human mind and to the uni- 
verse is as much a matter of debate to-day as it was 
in the age of the schoolmen. This plain fact of 
literary history is not affected by the opinion of a 
certain number of materialists and behaviourists that 
the matter is quite simple and that there is or ought 
to be no problem. They may or may not be right. 
But the discussion continues, as any bibliography of 
psychology and philosophy will show. The entire 
literature of the " meaning of meaning " and of 
" imageless thought" is a renewal of the contro- 
versy in other terms. 

A great many thinkers are not satisfied with the 
simple evasion of Aristotle that the human mind is 
" such " as to be able to experience this, namely the 
separation in thought of things inseparable in ex- 
perience. They cannot find any enlightenment in 
the modern tautology that a general idea is an image 
of a particular idea plus a feeling of generality. And 
they are not convinced that the movements of the 
body, even if we concede that they run exactly 
])arallel to the movements of the mind, really explain 
them. And if we turn to the other side of the 
problem we find that many of the leaders of modern 



INTRODUCTION 

physics and mathematics are imable to conceive and 
refuse to admit that there is nothing in the objective 
universe corresponding to the ideas, the concepts, 
the laws, the principles by which they get their 
results. 

The Platonic theory of ideas is a convenient short- 
hand, symbolic expression of the opinions that I have 
thus summarized. If we disregard the rhetoric 
and physical imagery of the myths by which Plato 
exalts the importance of the doctrine or makes it 
the expression of the ideal for ethics, poUtics and 
aesthetics, all that it affirms is, first, that conceptual 
thought is a distinct and differentiated prerogative 
of man not sufficiently accounted for by the structure 
of his body and the sensations which he shares with 
the animals ; and second, that there must be some- 
thing in the universe, something in the nature of 
things, that corresponds to our concepts and our 
ideals — to the principles, for example, of ethics and 
mathematics. These affirmations of Plato are primi- 
tive animism only in the sense in which the same could 
be said of the beUefs of some of the greatest mathe- 
maticians and physicists of to-day or of Matthew 
Arnold when he talks of a power not ourselves that 
makes for righteousness. This is not reading modern 
philosophies into Plato. It is merely giving him 
credit for knowing and intending what he in fact 
says. The opposite interpretation underrates his 
intelUgence and really does read into his wTitings 
modern ideas, the notions, namely, of modern anthro- 
pologists as to how savages think. Gomperz' 
comparison of the doctrine of ideas to Iroquois 
animism (iii. 323 ; cf. iii. 1-2), Ogden and Richards' 
designation of the ideas as " name-souls " {The Meaning 

xiii 



INTRODUCTION 

of Meaning, p. 45), Jowett's illustration of what he 
deems hair-splitting refinements in Plato by the 
" distinction so plentiful in savage languages," Corn- 
ford's fancy {From ReUgioti to Philosophy, p. 254) that 
" the idea is a group-soul related to its group as a 
mystery -demon like Dionysus is related to the group 
of worshippers, his thiasos," and all similar utter- 
ances are uncritical, whatever airs of science or 
pseudo-science they assume. The relevant illustra- 
tions of Plato's doctrine of ideas are to be sought 
in the most subtle debates of the schoolmen, or in 
modern psychological and epistemological literature 
about the meaning of meaning." 

There were, of course, some other more special con- 
siderations that determined Plato's deliberate and 
defiant hypostatization of all concepts. It accepted 
a natural tendency of the human, and not merely of 
the primitive , mind, and rendered it harmless by apply- 
ing it consistently to everything. If all concepts are 
hypostatized, the result for practical logic and for 
everything except metaphysics and ultimate epistem- 
ological psychology is to leave concepts where they 
were, as indispensable instruments of human think- 
ing. The hypostatization of abstractions operated 
practically as a short answer to the sophisms of crude 
nominalists who obstructed ordinary reasoning by 
raising ultimate objections to the validity of all ab- 
stractions or general terms. This motive is distinctly 
apparent in Plato's writings and there is a strong 
presumption that he was conscious of it. 

However that may be, Plato did in fact, partly as a 
matter of imaginative style, partly as a matter of 

" Sec Shorey in Proceedings of the Sixth International 
Congress of Philosophy, pp. 579-583. 



I 



INTRODUCTION 

metaphysics, speak of concepts as if they were real 
objects. He did, as his MTitings conclusively show, 
hypostatize all concepts, and all attempts to show 
that he hypostatized only a few of the sublimer or 
more dignified concepts are a priori improbable 
because they deprive the doctrine of all rational 
meaning and consistency," and they are also refuted 
by the incontrovertible evidence of the dialogues 
themselves. Plato affirms this monstrous paradox, 
not because he is a naive thinker unacquainted with 
the elementary psychology of abstraction and general- 
ization,'' but because, as we have said, he regards it 
as the most convenient expression of his rejection 
of all materiahstic and relativistic philosophies "^ and 
of all crude nominalism.'* He recognized that the 
doctrine is a paradox hard to accept but also hard to 
reject.* But he deliberately affirmed it as the most 
convenient alternative to inacceptable or unworkable 
philosophies.^ He perhaps, as we have already sug- 
gested, justified this procedure to himself, and we 
may certainly justify it for him, by the reflection that 
the theor}' is no more of a paradox than that involved 
in every theology and ultimately in all science and 
philosophy except the crudest dogmatic materialism. 
And we may find further confirmation of this opinion 
in the fact that both the metaphysics and the tran- 
scendental physics of the past two decades discover 

" Cf. Aristot. Met. 1043 b 21 and 991 b 6 ; Ross, i. pp. 192 
and 199 ; and What Plato Said, p. 584. 

" Cf. Charm ides 158 e, Phaedo 96 b, What Plato Said, 
p. 533, Unity of Plato's Thought, pp. 47-48. 

■= Cf. Cratyl. 440 b-c. 

" Cf. What Plato Said, p. 574. 

• Cf. What Plato Said, p. 586, on Parmen. 135 c. 

' Cf. What Plato Said, pp. 39, 268, 574. 

XV 



INTRODUCTION^ 

more helpful analogies in the Platonic theory of ideas 
and in Plato's applications of it to the philosophy of 
nature than they do in any other philosophy of the 
past. 

In disregard of these considerations many critics in 
every age, and notably Natorp and Stewart in ours, 
have tried to free Plato from the stigma of paradox or 
naivete by trying to show that this uncompromising 
realism (in the proper medieval sense of the word) is 
not to be taken seriously, and that it was only a 
poetic and emphatic form of conceptualism. This, as 
we have seen, is at the best a half truth. All Platonic 
ideas are also concepts, but we cannot infer that they 
were only concepts.* For many purposes of logic, 
ethics and politics Plato practically treats them as 
concepts. Why not ? No reasonable writer ob- 
trudes his ultimate metaphysics into everything. 
And Plato is always particularly careful to distinguish 
metaphysical hypotheses and their imaginative em- 
bodiments in myth and allegory from the simple 
truths of a working logic and a practical ethics which 
are all that he dogmatically affirms.'' But he always 
affirms the metaphysical idea when challenged. To 
this extent Natorp and those who agree with him 
are right. But they pay too high a price for their 
Tightness on this point when they insist on deducing 
all Plato's opinions from his ontology, and obtrude 
the metaphysical idea into passages where the doc- 
trine at the most lends rhetorical and poetical colour- 
ing to the practical affirmation of the necessity of 
concepts and the value of ideals. 

" See Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 30, What Plato Said, 
p. 585, on Parmen. 132 b. 

'' Cf. Meno 81 d-e and What Plato Said, p. 515, on 3Teno 
86 B. 
xvi 



INTRODUCTION 

An example \*ill pediaps make these distinctions 
more plain. Plato in the Republic (501) says that 
his philosophic statesman will contemplate the divine 
pattern of justice as an artist looks away to his model, 
and that like the artist he will frequently glance from 
the copy that he is producing to the model and back 
again to the copy." This may reasonably be under- 
stood as only a heightened way of saying that the 
true statesman must be guided by definite concep- 
tions and strive for the realization of clearly ap- 
prehended ideals. The fact that Plato, the meta- 
physician, believed the transcendental reality of the 
idea to be a necessary assumption of ultimate epistem- 
ology adds nothing to the practical meaning of this 
passage. When in the Phaedrus, however (24'7 d, 
249 B-c), Plato says that every human soul has beheld 
the idea of justice in pre-natal \-ision, since otherwise 
it would not have the power to reduce the confused 
multiplicity of sensation to the unities of conceptual 
thought, he is clothing in mythical garb an epistem- 
ological argument for the reality of the transcend- 
ental idea, and he is not, as in the Republic passage, 
thinking mainly of the exphcit affirmation that the 
true statesman must have submitted to a higher educa- 
tion in conceptual thinking and have thus framed in 
his mind ideals to guide his practice. The historian 
of philosophy who, ^^^thout calling attention to this 
distinction, merely cites the two passages together 
in a footnote, only confuses the uncritical reader. 

But again in the Parmenides (135 a-c), the Sophist 

(246-247), the Cratyhs (439 d f. ; cf. What Plato Said, 

pp. 266-267), the Politicus (283-284, What Plato Said, 

p. 309), the Timaeus (51-52 and What Plato Said, p. 

" Cf. What Plato Said, p. 458, on Euthyphro 6 e. 



INTRODUCTION 

613 on 28 a-b), there are passages in which, without 
mythical dress, and with no specific reference to the 
practical value of concepts and ideals, Plato postulates 
the transcendental ideas as an epistemological neces- 
sity, and the only escape from materialism and the 
flux of relativity. No legerdemain of interpretation 
or speculations about the chronology of the evolution 
of Plato's thought can explain away these passages, 
and the interpreter who realizes that some virtual 
equivalent of the Platonic idea is still to-day the alter- 
native to thorough-going and unequivocal material- 
ism will not desire to explain them away. 

All that is needed in order to understand Plato 
and to do justice to him as a rational philosopher is 
to remember again " that, though the doctrine of ideas 
is always in the background of his mind and would 
always be reaffirmed on a challenge, he is not always 
thinking explicitly of it when he is speaking of 
logic, ethics, or politics, and we need not think of it 
in order to enjoy his art or apprehend his meaning. 
The transcendental idea, for example, is not needed 
in the Reptiblic except for the characterization of the 
philosophic mind and the higher education of the 
Platonic rulers.^ It is not indispensable even there. 
The concept will serve. The philosopher is he who 
can think and reason consecutively in abstr actions. '^ 

" See supra, p. xvi. 

" Cf. Vol. I. pp. xl-xli, and What Plato Said, pp. 226-227. 
It is also used in an intentionally crude form to confirm the 
banishment of the poets. The poet does not deal in essential 
truth, he copies the copy of the reality. Cf. infra, p. Ixii, 
on 596 A ff. and What Plato Said, p. 249. Stenzel's 
justification of this (Platon der Erzieher, p. 175) by the 
consideration that good joiners' work involves mathematics 
seems fanciful and is certainly not in Plato's text. 

* Supra, Vol. I. pp. 516 ff. 



INTRODUCTION 

The curriculum of the higher education is designed to 
develop this faculty in those naturally fitted to re- 
ceive it.<* The thought and the practical conclusions 
will not be affected if we treat the accompanying 
symbolic rhetoric as surplusage. Such statements as 
that the philosopher is concerned with pure being,* 
dwells in a world of light/ is devoted to the most 
blessed part of reality j*^ satisfies and fills the continent 
part of his soul,* undoubtedly suggest the meta- 
physical background of Plato's thought and the 
emotional and imaginative connotations of his ideas. 
But in the context of the Republic they are little 
more than an expression of the intensity of Plato's 
feeling about his political and educational ideas. 

It is ob\ious that the concept or idea is in many 
eloquent Platonic passages an ideal, a type, a pattern, 
to which aesthetic, moral and social experience may 
approximate but which they never perfectly realize, 
just as mathematical conceptions are ideals never 
actually met with in the w^orld of sense.^ It is 
possible, though not probable, that in some of the 
minor dialogues we get glimpses of a stage of Plato's 
youthful thought in which, though he already uses, 
in speaking of the concept or the definition, much of 
the terminology associated with the doctrine of ideas, 

• Cf. supra. Vol. I. pp. 51^-517, 520-521, What Plato Said^ 
pp. 233-234. 

" 477 A ff., 479 E, 484 b, 486 a, 500 b. 

' 517 B, 518 A, 518 c, 520 d. ■* 526 e. 

* Rep. o%6 B, Gorg. 493 b. 

f Phaedo 74 a. For the threefold aspect of the Platonic 
ideas in metaphysics, logic and aesthetics see my Unity of 
Plato's Thought, p. 27, and T. E. Jessup, " The Metaphysics 
of Plato," Journ. of Philos. Studies (1930), pp. 41-42. See 
supra. Vol. I. pp. 504-505. 



INTRODUCTION 

he has not yet consciously and systematically hyposta- 
tized the concept." These and similar qualifications 
and speculative possibilities do not in the least alter 
the fact that throughout the main body of his work 
Plato is ready to affirm the metaphysical theory of 
the hypostatized idea whenever the issue is raised,'' 
and there is not an iota of evidence in his own writings 
that he ever abandoned or altered the doctrine, how- 
ever much he varied the metaphors and the terms in 
which he expressed it. It is quite certain that he did 
not, except in obviously mythical or poetical passages, 
say more of the ideas than that they exist and that 
they are in some sense real." He did not say that 
they are the thoughts of God.** There is no indica- 
tion in his writings that he said that they are numbers.* 

" See Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 31, What Plato Said, 
p. 458. 

* Cf. supra, pp. xvi and xviii. 

« Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 28 and p. 29, n. 188. 

^ This Neoplatonic doctrine — based on a misinterpretation 
of such passages as Rep. 597 b f.— was adopted by many 
Christian fathers and mediaeval scholars. Cf. Alcinous 
in Hermann, Plato, vi. p. 163 ; Baumgartner, Philos. des 
Alanus de Insulis, p. 54; Zeller ii. 1*, p. 664, n. 5 ; Taylor, 
Mediaeval Mind, ii. pp. 485-486 ; ^^'ebb, Studies in the 
Hist, of Nat. Theol. p. 241 ; Harris, Duns Scotus, ii. p. 195: 
C. G. Field, The Origin and Development of Plato's Theory 
of Ideas, pp. 21-22 ; Otto Kluge, Darstellung u. Beur- 
teilung der Einwendungen des Aristot. gegen die Plat. Ideen- 
lehre, p. 24. 

• It is very difficult to argue with those who attribute this 
doctrine of ideas and numbers to Plato. Sometimes they 
seem to affirm it only on the authority of Aristotle, which they 
admit is in most cases hopelessly confused with his statements 
about Speusippus and Xenocrates and other members of the 
Academy. Sometimes they seem to admit that the doctrine 
is not to be found in Plato's extant writings. Sometimes 
they hint rather than say that certain passages of the Philebus 



INTRODUCTION 

And he never admitted that they are only thoughts in 
the human mind," though for practical purposes, as 
we have said, they may usually be treated as such 
when no metaphysical issue is involved. 

It ought not to be necessary to debate these ques- 
tions further. The only question open to debate 
is the extent of Plato's consciousness of what some 
critics think the modem meanings that I have read 
into him. The question of course is not whether he 

and the Timaeus suggest that Plato's mind was working in 
this direction, though they are usually too cautious now to 
affirm anything positive about Philebus 15-16 d, or Timaeus 
53 B. I have more than once shown that there is no difficulty 
in treating numerical ideas precisely like other ideas in their 
relation to concretes. The number live is to five apples as 
redness is to red apples. It is present with them. I have 
repeatedly collected and interpreted the Platonic passages 
that probably misled uncritical students of the Academy 
{cf. What Plato Said, p. 605, and infra on 525 d, 526 a). 
And the distinction that there is only one idea while there 
are many numbers of the same kind is quite pointless. There 
is one idea of redness that is metaphysically or teleologically 
really present entire in many red things and there is one 
idea of five or fiveness which is similarly present in many 
groups of five. There is no more difficulty about the fives 
that are present as factors in ten, fifteen, twenty, and twenty- 
five than there is about any other ideas that may mingle 
with or enter into the definition of another idea. The whole 
theory is a piece of scholastic hair-splitting to which a sound 
interpretation of what Plato says lends no support. And there 
is no space and no need to transcribe here the exhaustive 
collections of Robin {La Th-^orie platonicienne dfs ld4es et 
des Nombres d'apres Aristote) or Ross's repeated summaries 
of them in his commentary on Aristotle's Metaphysics. 

If Plato's mind was really working towards such con- 
clusions, why is there no hint of them in his huge work of the 
Laws, or — if we grant them genuine for the sake of the 
argument — in the Epistles ? 

• Cf. Parmen. 132 b-c, and What Plato Said, p. 585, and 
ibid. p. 594 on Soph. 250 b. Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 30. 



INTRODUCTION 

could feel all the associations and connotations of the 
modern words in which we have to express his mean- 
ing, but whether his meaning is on the whole sub- 
stantially that which I have attributed to him. 

The obvious conclusion is that we can infer nothing 
as to the composition or date of the Republic from the 
fact that the ideas are not mentioned where there 
is no reason for mentioning them, and that all hypo- 
theses that different stages of the evolution of Plato's 
thought are indicated by the various aspects in which 
the ideas are presented when they are mentioned are 
uncritical." There is no occasion for the metaphysical 
doctrine of ideas in the first four books. But the 
general concept, the type, the ideal are referred to 
in language which could be understood of the ideas. 
The fact that it does not necessarily have to be so 
understood is no proof that the doctrine was not 
present to Plato's mind at the time. 

In the fifth, sixth, and seventh books the theory is 
explicitly enunciated,'' illustrated by imagery and 
applied to education. There is even a much disputed 
but certain anticipation of the later doctrine that 
while the idea is a unity its relation to things and to 
other ideas seems to break it up into a plurality." 

The uncompromising statement of the subject in 
the tenth book is sometimes taken to represent an 
earlier and more naive form of the doctrine. But the 
style of the passage is evidently that of a defiant 
affirmation of the whole length of the paradox, or 
rather perhaps of an expert explaining the matter to 

" Cf. What Plato Said, p. 560, Unity of Plato's Thought, 
p. 35 and n. 238. 

* 476 A f. Cf. Vol. I. pp. 516-517, 505 a ff., 517 b ff. 
' Cf. 476 A, Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 34. 



INTRODUCTION 

lavmen." The fact that the argument of the third 
man is distinctly mentioned in the same connexion is 
in itself exidence that the passage does not represent 
an earlier and more primitive stage of Plato's thought. 
For the third man is mentioned in the Parmenides.^ 
But there would not be much profit in further discus- 
sion of hypotheses that have no basis in the text of 
Plato or in the philosophical probabilities of the case. 

All that has been said of the ideas in general applies ^^^'^ 
to the idea of good. It is the hypostatization of the 
concept " good." Its significance in the Platonic 
system is that of its importance in human thought. 
In ethics it is what modern ethical philosophy calls 
the sanction. In politics it is the ideal, whatever it 
may be, of social welfare. In theology and the phil- 
osophy of nature it is the teleological principle, the 
design that implies a designing mind in the universe. 

The first of these meanings is predominant in the 
minor dialogues where all problems and all attempted 
definitions point to an unknown good so consistently 
and systematically that Plato must have been aware 
of the reference.*^ The second meaning is most 
prominent in the Republic, but there is explicit refer- 
ence to the first and to the discussions of the minor 
dialogues. In any case, ethical and social good are 
not sharply separable in Plato. 

The idea of good is nowhere defined, but its supreme 
importance and all of its meanings are symbolized in 
the images of the sun and the cave. Its main mean- 

" Cf. 597 A ibt y' div So^fif roii irtpi tovs roioivde \oyovt 
SuLTpiSoiviy. 

" 132 z-133 A. Cf. infra on 597 c. 

* See What Plato Said, pp. 71-73, with marginal references 
there. 



INTRODUCTION 

ing for the Republic is the ideal of social welfare on 
which the statesman, as opposed to the opportunist 
politician, must fix his eye, and which he can appre- 
hend only by a long course of higher education which 
will enable him to grasp it. Plato rightly feels that 
no other definition is possible or desirable unless the 
entire polity of the Republic was to be taken as its 
definition. The Timaeus is the poetical embodiment 
of the third meaning, though single phrases of the 
Republic glance at it.** If there is a beneficent 
creator, his purpose, his idea of good, is the chief 
cause of the existence of the world and the best key 
to the understanding of it. 

I am not attributing these three meanings of the 
good to Plato by an imposed symmetry of my own. 
It is what Plato himself says and the chief problem 
of my interpretation is not to understand Plato 
but to account for the failure to recognize his plain 
mieaning. 

In view of my repeated expositions of Plato's 
doctrine of the idea of good there would be little 
point in attempting here once more to set it forth in 
a smooth, consecutive, literary statement.'' It will be 
more to my purpose to enumerate in the briefest, 
baldest, most explicit fashion some of my reasons for 
feeling that I have been misunderstood, and that the 
definite issues raised by my arguments have never 

" Cf. infra, pp. xxv and 102. 

"" See my paper, " The Idea of Good in Plato's Republic," 
University of Chicago Studies in Classical Philology, vol. i. 
(1895), pp. 188-239; my article, " Summum Bonum," in 
Hastings' Encycl. of Relig. and Ethics, vol. xii. pp. 44-48 ; 
my review of Jowett and Campbell's Republic, The Nation, 
61, 1895, pp. 83-84 ; Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 17 and n. 
94 ; What Plato Said, pp. 71-72, 230 ff., 534 on Phaedo 99 a. 



INTRODUCTION 

been met. I have never intended to deny that 
Plato's language about the idea of good is in large 
part the language of poetry and religion, that he 
intends to suggest by it the ineffable and infinite 
unknowable beyond our ken, and that his eloquence 
has been a source of inspiration to many readers who 
care little for his dialectics and for the critical inter- 
pretation of his specific thought. What I have been 
trying to say is that the mere repetition of Plato's 
rhetoric or the attempt to better it in our o\vn para- 
phrases will not contribute much to the interpretation 
of the precise meaning of the passages of the Republic 
in question, assuming that in addition to their in- 
spirational value they are intended to convey some 
definite meaning and are not merely ejaculations 
thrown out at an infinite object. 

In the first place, then, since all Platonic ideas 
are hypostatized concepts the hypostatization of the 
idea of good is presumably irrelevant to its main 
significance for the ethical and political thought of 
the Republic . It does, of course, suggest the meta- 
physical background of Plato's thought ; there are 
a few sentences in which it involves the goodness 
which teleologists discover in the structure of the 
universe and in the designs of its creator, the theme 
of the Timaeus ; <* and since goodness is the chief 
attribute of God in religious literature from the New 
Testament to \\Tiittier's hymn, there is a certain 
plausibility in identifying it ^Tith God himself. But 
the text of Plato, and especially the text of the 
Republic, does not justify any of these extensions of 
the idea if taken absolutely. The idea of good is 
undoubtedly the most important of ideas, but it is 

« Cf. on 508 B and 509 b ; Zeller 11, 1*, pp. 687-688. 

xxv 



INTRODUCTION 

not true that it is the most comprehensive in the 
sense that all other ideas are deduced from it," as in 
some Platonizing pantheistic philosophies they are 
deduced from the idea of Being. There is no hint 
of such deduction in Plato's writings. It is only 
teleological ideas in ethics, politics and cosmogony 
that are referred to the idea of good as the common 
generalization or idea that includes them all. Even 
the ideas are not in Plato's own reasoning deduced 
from the idea of good. It is merely said that a 
scientific moralist, a true statesman, will be able so 
to deduce them, and that the higher education is 
designed to give him this ability. In Republic 534 
B-c, the dialectician is he who is able eKaa-rov . . . 
\6yov . . . 8i86va(. and the idea of good is a special 
example of the 'iKacrrov. It is not said that the man 
who does not know the idea of good does not know 
any other idea, but that he does not know SAAo 
dyadoi' ovSev. 

It is not even true that Plato's philosophic ethics 
is deduced from the idea of good. He only says that 
the ethics of the guardians will be so deduced. So 
far as Plato himself expounds a scientific ethics it rests 
on the preferability of the intellectual life and the 
comparative worthlessness of the pleasures of sense. ^ 
The idea of good in the dialogues is a regulative not 
a substantive concept. 

Whatever its religious suggestions it cannot in 
any metaphysical or literal sense be identified with 
the Deity." The idea of God was taken by Plato 

" Cf. my review of Paul Hinneberg, Die Kultur der 
Gegenwart, Class. Phil. vi. p. 108. 

* Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 24, and infra, pp. Ivi f. 

« Cf. my Idea of Good, pp. 188-189, Unity of Plato's 
Thought, n. 94, What Plato Said, p. 231. 
xxvi 



INTRODUCTION 

from the religion of the Greek people and purified 
by criticism. The idea of good came to him on an 
altogether different line of thought. It is the out- 
come of those Socratic quests for definitions of 
ethical virtues and social ends which always break 
do^v-n because the interlocutors are never able to 
discover the sanction which makes the proposed 
virtue or end a good and desirable thing." 

WTien these misapprehensions are cleared awav I 
trust that I shall not any longer be misunderstood if 

I say that the chief and essential meaning of the idea 
of good in the Republic is " precisely " that conception 
of an ultimate sanction for ethics and politics which 
the minor dialogues sought in vain. Plato does not 
profess to have discovered it in the Republic except 
so far as it is implied in the entire ethical, social and 
poUtical ideals of his reformed state. He intention- 
ally and wisely refuses to define it in a formula.^ 
He merely affirms that it is something which can be 
apprehended only by those who have received the 
training and the discipline of his higher education. 

" For the idea of good and God cf. also V. Brochard, " Les 
Mythes dans la philos. de Platon," L'Annee Philos., 1900, p. 

II ; Pierre Bovet, Le Dieu de Platon, Paris, 1902, p. 177 
Raeder, Platos philosophische Enticicklung, pp. 237, 381 f. 
Zeller, Phil. d. Gr. ii. 1*, p. 718, n. 1, pp. 667, 694, 707 ff. 
Aristotle and the Earlier Peripatetics (Eng. tr.), ii. p. 327 
Gomperz, Greek Thinkers, iii. pp. 85 and 21 1 ; Inge, The Philo- 
sophy of Plotimis, ii. p. 126 ; Gustave Schneider, Die plat. 
Metaphysik, p. 109 ; Taylor, Plato, pp. 85-89 ; Adam, 
The Vitality of Platonism, pp. 22 and 132 ; The Religious 
Teachers of Greece, pp. 442 f., with my review in Philos. 
Rev. vol. 18, pp. 62-63; Apelt, Beitrage zvr Geschichte der 
griechischen Philos., Vorrede, p. vi. ; H. Tietzel, Die Idee 
des Guten in Platons Staat und der Gottesbegriff, Progr. 
Wetzlar, 1894. 

* Cf. infra on 506 e, p. 95, note/. 
VOL. II c xxvii 



INTRODUCTION 

The consummation of this education is characterized 
briefly and soberly as a vision, just as in the Sym- 
posium the long ascent of the scale of beauty cul- 
minates in a vision which alone makes life worth 
living." This language expresses the intensity of 
Plato's feeling about the intellectual life and his 
own ethical and social ideals, but it does not make 
him a visionary or a mystic in the ordinary sense of 
the words. 

If the interpretation here outlined is in itself a 
rational sequence of thought and makes sense of 
what Plato says, it surely creates a presumption 
which cannot be rebutted by evading issues and 
charging me with insensibility to Plato's deeper 
religious and mystic meanings. It can be refuted 
only by giving specific answers to specific arguments 
and testing them by the texts. The interpretation 
of the images, symbols, allegories (the synonym 
does not matter) of the sun, the divided line and 
the cave, provides the chief test, as the too literal 
acceptance of them is perhaps the main cause of 
misunderstanding. 

The aptness of the sun as a symbol of Plato's idea 
of good might be illustrated by many quotations 
from modern poetry and from the literature of sun- 
worship.'' It would be interesting to compare what 
Plato says of the sun as the primal source of light, 
heat, life, growth, all things, with the language of 
modern science. Herbert Spencer, for example, 
innocently says {First Principles of a New System of 
Philos., 1865, Amer. ed. p. 454.) : " Until I recently 

• Rep. 516 u, 517 B-c, Symp. 210 b flF. Cf. Rep. 500 b-c. 
" Cf. infra, pp. 100-101, on 508 a. 

xxviii 



INTRODUCTION 

consulted his Outlines of Astronomy on another ques- 
tion I was not aware that so far back as 1833 Sir 
John Herschel had enunciated the doctrine that 
' the sun's rays are the ultimate source of almost 
every motion which takes place on the surface of the 
earth.' " Another line of illustration would lead 
through the Latin poet Manilius and Plotinus to 
Goethe's " War' nicht das Auge sonnenhaft." " 
This thought might be extended to include modern 
debates on the nice preadjustment of the eye to 
its function of \-ision. Does it, or does it not, imply 
a creator and a design ? Lastly, Plato's statement 
that, as the sun is the source of light, but is not itself 
light (508 b), so the idea of good is not knowledge or 
being but the cause of both and something that is 
beyond and transcends being — this superhuman 
hyperbole (509 b-c) is the source of all so-called 
negative theologies and transcendental metaphysics 
from Philo and Plotinus to the present day. 

But our present concern is not with these things 
but with the direct evidence that the idea of good 
is essentially for the interpretation of the Republic 
what modern ethical theory calls the sanction. One 
sentence I admit seems to identify the idea of good 
with God. The sun, it is said, is that which the Good 
created in the visible world to be its symbol and 
analogue. This would seem to identify the idea of 
good with the Demiurgos of the Timaeus, who is 
both the supreme God and a personification of the 
idea of good or the principle of teleology in nature. 
But we have already seen that it is uncritical to 
press Plato's language about God, a word which 
he accepts from traditional religion and employs as 
» Cf. infra, p. 101, note c, on 508 b. 

xxix 



INTRODUCTION 

freely for edification and the rejection of militant 
atheism as Matthew Arnold does. Moreover, there 
are other sentences in this part of the Republic -which, 
if pressed, are irreconcilable with the identification 
of the idea of good with God. In any case, apart from 
one or two sentences of vague and disputable meaning, 
the acceptance of the idea of good as the sanction more 
nearly lends an intelligible and reasonable meaning 
to everything that Plato says than does any other 
interpretation. On this view, then, I repeat, the 
idea of good is simply the hypostatization of what 
the idea of good means for common sense in modern 
usage. It is the good purpose in some mind able 
to execute its purposes. It is what such a mind 
conceives to be the supreme end to which all other 
ends are subordinated and referred. 

The divided line and the cave are also images and 
symbols employed to bring out certain other aspects 
of the theory of ideas and of the idea of good in 
particular. The main object common to both is to 
put the thought " Alles vergangliche ist nur ein 
Gleichnis " into a proportion. The four terms of such 
a proportion may be secured either by invention or by 
forcing special meanings on some of the terms. In 
the case of the cave, the cave itself, the fettered 
prisoners, the fire and the apparatus by which the 
shadows of graven images are cast on the wall of the 
cave are clearly inventions. There is a real analogy 
between the release of the prisoners with their ascent 
to the light of day (515 c fF.) and the Socratic elenchus 
which releases the mind and draws it up from a world 
of sense to the world of thought (517 b-c). But it is 
obvious that all the details of the imagery cannot be 
pressed and that we need not ask too curiously to 



INTRODUCTION 

what in Plato's serious thought every touch that fills 
out the picture corresponds. 

On my interpretation critics have likewise erred by 
refusing to admit a similar qualification of their too 
literal acceptance of the image of the divided line. 
The proportion : ideas are to things as things are to 
their reflections in mirrors or in water, has only three 
terms. The fourth term is found in mathematical 
ideas, which in their use in education and in respect 
of the method by which the mind deals with them are 
in some sort intermediate between ideas and things. 
We thus get our proportion. But in the description 
of it Plato is careful to distinguish the mathematical 
ideas only by the method of their treatment in science, 
not in dialectics, and not as entities of another kind. 
This raises the presumption that Plato, as usual, 
knows what he is doing and does not intend to dis- 
tinguish objectively mathematical ideas as ideas from 
other ideas. I support this presumption by pointing 
out that in the later and final interpretation of 
the line Plato names the objective correlates of the 
mental processes corresponding to three divisions 
of the line but omits the fourth on the pretext that 
it would take too long. (Cf. on 534 a.) He names 
the mathematical attitude of mind or method but 
does not name its objects as something distinct from 
ideas or a distinct kind of ideas. I go on to snow that 
there is no evidence in the Platonic Avritings for the 
doctrine that mathematical ideas differ in themselves 
from other concepts, and that the testimony of Aris- 
totle is too confused to prove anything." These 
assumptions raise a definite issue which can only be 
met by equally definite arguments. Instead of that 

' Cf. »upra, pp. xx-xxi. Unity of Platans Thought, pp. 82 f. 

xxxi 



INTRODUCTION 

critics rebuke me for attributing insincerity to Plato, 
or at the best they ask, How could Aristotle be mis- 
taken ? 

Plato himself regards all literature except dia- 
lectics as a form of play and much that passes for 
dialectics as conscious or unconscious j esting. When- 
ever he himself employs imagery, symbolism and 
myth or an eristic dialectic he is careful to warn us 
that it is not to be taken too literally or seriously,* 
and he usually points out just how much of his 
apparent conclusions it is necessary to accept for the 
carrying on of the argument. Now the particular 
synonyms I employ to describe this characteristic 
trait of Plato's method and style are obviously ir- 
relevant to my main argument. Yet if in view of 
the frequency of the idea and word irai^nv in Plato 
I express the thought that the intermediate place of 
mathematical ideas in the proportion of the divided 
line is not to be taken literally and add that the 
ambiguous coinage eiKaa-La, or conjecture, is a term 
of disparagement playfully thrown in to secure sym- 
metry of subdivision in the two worlds and to suggest 
a depth below the lowest depth, *" I am sternly told 
that " It is surely a strange reading of the character 
of Plato as a seeker after truth to maintain that in 
the very heart of his greatest work and at the very 
core of the problem of knowledge he should disturb 
and confuse those who are seeking to understand his 
doctrine with a little wholly uncalled-for ' playful- 
ness,' even though it should be for the sake of 
* symmetry.' " " Now I am quite willing to sub- 

" Cf. infra on 539 c, p. 227, note d. 

* Idea of Good, p. 229. 

« H. J. Paton, Plato's Theory of EIKASIA, Aristotelian 
Society, 1922, p. 69. 
xxxii 



INTRODUCTION 

stitute some other expression for " playfully thrown 
in." But my precise expression. I repeat, is not the 
point. Plato in fact does here, as elsewhere, resort 
to artificial constructions and inventions in order to 
express the relation between the ideas and what we 
call realities by proportion. The eiKoves and 6t\-acria 
are in fact introduced here to complete the symmetry 
of such a proportion and to suggest ironical disparage- 
ment of the inferior type of thought. They contri- 
bute nothing further to the solution of the " problem 
of knowledge." To recognize this plain fact is not to 
impugn the character of Plato, and to rebuke my 
frivohty with solemn eloquence is no answer to my 
argument. Plato himself never thinks it incompat- 
ible with a serious search for truth to mingle jest \»'ith 
earnest and seriousness \\-ith irony. 

Similarly of the dvinrodeTov (510 b). It ob\aously 
suggests to modern interpreters the metaphysical first 
principle, the Unconditioned, the absolute ground, 
the noumenon, call it what you will. Plato himself 
may have been Nvilling to let the word convey such 
overtones, and those who are not interested in his 
precise meanings may stop there and cry with Rous- 
seau, " O Mighty Being ! " But it is also equally 
obvious that the avinrobi-ov has a definite and less 
purely emotional meaning in its context. It ex- 
presses Plato's distinction between the man of science, 
who starts from assumptions that he does not allow 
to be questioned (510 c-o), and the philosopher or 
Platonic dialectician, who is able and willing to carry 
the discussion back, not necessarily always to a meta- 
physical first principle, but at least to a proposition on 
which both parties to the argiunent agree and which 
therefore is not arbitrarily assumed as an hypothesis 



INTRODUCTION 

by the questioner. This meaning could be illustrated 
by the Crito, in which it is said that all discussion is 
vain without such a starting-point of agreement." It 
is the essential meaning of the passage in the Phaedo 
(101 d-e), where luavov, the adequate, the sufficient, 
is for all practical purposes a virtual synonym of the 
dvvTTo^tToi', though it does not suggest the possible 
metaphysical connotations of the word. 

Now this distinction between dialectics or philo- 
sophy and the sciences is repeatedly borrowed by 
Aristotle * and even retains much of its validity under 
the changed conditions of modern thought. There 
will always be these two ways of thinking and these 
two types of mind. The passage, then, makes good 
sense so interpreted and lends a rational meaning 
to the avvTTo^eTo;' without denying the mystic over- 
tones which are all that seem to interest some inter- 
preters of Plato. 

To return to the political and social idea of good. 
Plato's conception of ultimate good in this sense must 
be gathered from his writings as a whole. Neither 
in the Republic nor elsewhere does he commit him- 
self to a defining formula of social welfare. It is 
enough for his purpose to emphasize the distinction 
between the statesman and the politician and describe 
the education and the way of life that will produce 
the statesman and develop in him the ideals and the 
unity of purpose that distinguish him. But it would 
not be difficult to gather Plato's general conception 
of political and social good from the Republic and the 
Laws and certain passages of the Gorgias and Poli- 
ticus. The true statesman's chief aim vdll be not 

*» CrIto 49 D, infra, p. 175, note c, on 537 E. 
" Cf. infra, p. 111. 

xxxiv 



INTRODUCTION 

wealth and power and amusements, but the virtue of 

the citizens.'' A sober disciplined life is preferable 
to the unlimited license and expansiveness of an im- 
perialistic and decadent democracy. The states- 
man's chief instruments for reahzing his ideals will 
be the control of education and what to-day is called 
eugenics.* 

Is this plain common sense, then, all that is meant 
by Plato's idealistic eloquence and the imagery of the 
sun, the di\ided Une and the cave ? I never meant 
to say that it is all, but it is the central core of 
meaning without which Plato's transcendentalism is 
only a rhapsody of words. If nature is more than 
mechanism, if there is a God, as Plato himself be- 
Ueves and beheves indispensable to morahty and 
social order, his purposes, his idea of good, or, meta- 
physically or mythologically speaking, the idea of 
good which he contemplates as a pattern,"^ becomes 
the first and chief cause of the ordered world, and 
such understanding of his purposes as is possible for 
us is a better explanation of things than the material 
instruments that serve his ends.** This is the type of 
explanation that the Socrates of the Phaedo desires 
but cannot discover and that the Timaeus ventures 
to present only in mythical and poetical form." It 
has httle place in the Republic, though we may sup- 
pose it to be in the background of Plato's mind and to 
be suggested by his allegories. The idea of good in 

• Gorg. 513 e, 517 b-c, 504 d-e. Laws 705 d-e, 693 b-c, 
770 D, 963 D, 963 a. 

• Polit. 309-310, Unity of Plato' $ Thought, p. 62, n. 481 : 
Laws and Rep. passim. 

' Cf. What Plato Said, p. 613 on Tim. 28 a-b. 
' Cf. What Plato Said, pp. 3-29, 346-347. 

• Cf. my Idea of Good, p. 232. 



INTRODUCTION 

this sense, like the heat and light of the sun, is both 
the cause of the things we think " real " and the con- 
dition of our apprehension and understanding of 
them. It is not the substance of things ; it is not 
their " being," but something apart from and tran- 
scending " being " in the ordinary sense of the word 
(509 b). But the allegory and the transcendental 
language apply equally well to the ethical and poli- 
tical ideas which are the chief theme of the Republic, 
and it is not necessary to look further. The cause of 
any political or social institution is the purpose or 
idea of good in some controlling mind, and, as Cole- 
ridge said and Mill repeated after him, the best way 
to understand any human institution or contrivance 
is to appreciate that purpose. That will throw a 
flood of light on everything." 

I have never meant to deny the mystic and meta- 
physical suggestions of Plato's language. I have 
merely tried to bring out the residuum of practical 
and intelligible meaning for the political and ethical 
philosophy of the Republic. It is a meaning that is 
still true to-day, and it is the only interpretation that 
makes intelligible sense of what Plato says. That 
surely creates a presumption which can be met only 
by definite arguments. 

Whatever the more remote suggestions of the idea 
of good for general or ethical philosophy, this its 
simple practical meaning for the Republic is clearly 
indicated by Plato himself. It symbolizes the distinc- 
tion between the ideal statesman and the politician 
of decadent Athens and marks the purpose and goal 
of all the studies of the Platonic higher education. 
The guardians have already received in a purified 
" Cf. my Idea of Good, p. 227. 



INTRODUCTION 

form the normal Greek education in gjTnnastics and 
"music," described in the Protagoras, 325 c ff., and 
virtually repeated in the education prescribed for the 
entire citizenship in the Laws. The product of this 
Platonic elementary and secondary education would 
be a band of healthy, wholesome, sunburnt boys and 
girls, who, in Ruskin's phrase, " have had all the 
nonsense boxed and raced and spun out of them." 
They would have dipped into fewer books than our 
graduates, but they would know a few of the world's 
greatest books by heart, they would have no theory 
of art or sentimentality about it, but their taste 
would have been refined, almost to infallibility, by 
hearing only the best music and seeing only the best 
statues. They would have heard of fewer things 
but would know what they did know perfectly. 
They would have never studied a text-book of ci\ics, 
ethics, or " sociology'," but the essential principles 
of obedience, patriotism, modesty, order, temperance, 
good manners, would have been so instilled into them 
that the possibility of violating them would hardly 
occur to their minds. They would not only be strong 
and healthy, but through gymnastics, choral singing 
and dancing, and military drill, would have acquired 
the mastery of their bodies and a dignified and grace- 
ful bearing. 

But already in the age of the sophists Athens had 
become too sophisticated for her ambitious youth to 
remain content with this simple old Greek education 
however reformed and idealized. There was a de- 
mand for a higher university education, which was 
met first by the sophists, and then in the next 
generation by Plato himself and his great rival, the 
orator Isocrates, who conducted academies side by 



INTRODUCTION 

side in Athens for fox'ty years. The content of this 
higher education is given in every age by the know- 
ledge of that age. What else can it be ? These Greek 
teachers did not offer " electives " in the chemistry 
of the carbon compounds, or the origin of Shintoism 
in Japan, or the evolution of the English novel from 
Tom Jones to Ulysses, for the simple reason that these 
interesting branches of study had not yet been de- 
veloped. The sophists taught a practical theory of 
politics and business and the new art of rhetoric, 
promising to make their pupils effective speakers 
and shrewd men of affairs." The publicist Isocrates 
taught what he knew, the application of this sophistic 
doctrine to the composition of more serious political 
and ethical essays. Plato taught what we should 
call ethics, sociology and philosophy, but what he 
called dialectics — the closely reasoned argumentative 
discussion of problems of ethics, politics, social life, 
philosophy and religion. 

But with wider experience Plato came to feel that 
the " Socratic method " of plunging mere lads 
directly into these difficult questions was unwise. 
It was doubtless stimulating ; but it unsettled their 
moral faith, confused their minds, and converted 
them into pert and precocious disputants.* Dia- 
lectics demanded a preparatory training in some 
simpler methods of close, consecutive, abstract 
thinking. This preparation Plato found in the new 
sciences of arithmetic and geometry and in the 
sciences which he was among the first to constitute 
or predict — the sciences of mathematical astronomy, 

° Of. Protag. 318-319, Gorg. 452 e, 456-457. 
* Of. infra, p. 220, note a, on 537 d ff. 



INTRODUCTION 

physics, and acoustics.<» By these studies the youth- 
ful mind could be gradually lifted out of the region 
of loose pictorial thinking, habituated to the thin 
pure air of abstractions, taught the essential nature 
of definitions, axioms, principles, and rules of logic, 
and made capable of following with continuous 
attention long trains of reasoning. We value 
mathematics and the exact sciences largely for their 
practical appHcations.* In the Republic Plato prized 
them as* the indispensable preparation for equally 
severe abstract thinking about the more complex 
and difficult problems of life, morals and society.* 
In his Republic he combines this idea drawn from 
the practice of his own school with his fundamental 
poUtical and social ideal, the government of mankind 
by the really wise, and not by the politicians who 
happen to get the votes. We need not stop to ask 
whether a Utopia designed for a small Greek city is 
appUcable to a democracy of 120 milUons inhabiting 
a territory of three million square miles. We are 
concerned with the ideal and its embodiment in a 
theory of education. 

The Platonic rulers are chosen by a process of 
progressive selection through ever higher educa- 
tional tests applied to young men and women who 
have stood most successfully the tests of the lower 
education,** Through arithmetic, geometry, and astro- 

" Cf. notes on Book vii. 521 flF., esp. on 521 c, 523 a, 527 a. 

* C/. on 525 c. 

' Herbert Spencer speaks of " Social science . . . the 
science standing above all others in subtlety and complexity ; 
the science which the highest intelligence alone can master . . ." 
— the science now taught to undergraduates who have not 
received the Platonic preparation. 

' Cf. 537 A, B, D. 



INTRODUCTION 

nomy, mechanics and acoustics, so far as these admit 
of mathematical treatment, they are led up to the 
final test in ethics and sociology, which is not speech- 
making or slumming, or the running of university 
settlements, but the power of close, exact, consecu- 
tive reasoning about complex moral phenomena. It 
must not be forgotten, however, that this theoretical 
discipline is supplemented by many years of practical 
experience in minor offices of administration." 

The consummation of it all is described poetically 
as the " vision of the idea of good " (540 a) — which, 
however, as we have seen, turns out to mean for all 
practical purposes the apprehension of some rational 
unified conception of the social aim and human well- 
being, and the consistent relating of all particular 
beliefs and measures to that ideal — a thing which 
can be achieved only by the most highly disciplined 
intelligence. For in Plato's time as in ours the 
opinions of the average man are not so unified and 
connected, but jostle one another in hopeless con- 
fusion in his brain, Plato's conception of the higher 
education, then, may be summed up in a sentence : 
" Until a man is able to abstract and define rationally 
his idea of good, and unless he can run the gauntlet 
of all objections and is ready to meet them, not by 
appeals to opinion but to absolute truth, never 
faltering at any stage of the argument — unless he 
can do all this he knows neither the idea of good nor 
any other good. He apprehends only a shadow of 
opinion, not true and real knowledge." ^ 

Starting from the sound psychological principle 
that the old-fashioned rote recitation of a text-book 

» Cf. 539 E-540 A. 
' See Rep. 534 b-c and notes. 

xl 



INTRODUCTION 

is an abomination, that verbal knowledge is no know- 
ledge, that the concrete must precede the abstract, 
that we must visualize before we theorize, and 
apprehend objects before we analyse relations, we 
have in practice abandoned altogether the attempt 
to teach young people hard consecutive abstract 
thinking. We scorn to drill them in the old- 
fashioned studies that developed this power, such 
as grammatical analysis, " parsing," puzzling prob- 
lems in arithmetic, algebra, or mechanics, elementary 
logic, — mental science, as it was called, — and the 
exact, if incomplete, methods of the orthodox 
political economy ; and instead of this we encourage 
them to have and express opinions about large and 
vague questions of literary criticism, aesthetics, 
ethics and social reform. A true apprehension of 
Plato's ideal of education would not swing the 
pendulum back again to the other extreme, but it 
would help us to realize that no multipHcation of 
entertaining knowledge, and no refinements of the 
new psychology, can alter the fact that all instruction 
is wasted on a flabby mind, and that true education, 
while it will not neglect entertainment, useful know- 
ledge, and the training of the eye and hand, will 
always consist largely in the development of firm, 
hard, intellectual muscle. The studies best adapted 
to this end will always retain a value independent 
of practical utility or superficial attractiveness ; for 
to change the figure and adapt Plato's own language : 
By such studies the eye of the mind, more precious 
than a thousand bodily eyes, is purged and quickened 
and made more keen for whatever truth higher 
education or life or business may present to it 
(527 d-e). 



INTRODUCTION 

Plato's own account of the curriculum of his higher 
education ought to be a sufficient answer to the 
charge that in the training of his guardians he 
manifests an anti-scientific spirit. It is only by 
wresting phrases from their context and refusing to 
make allowances for the quality of Plato's rhetoric 
that the imputation of hostility to modern experi- 
mental science can be fastened upon him." As I 
have shown elsewhere ^ and point out again in the 
notes, Plato is (1) using scientific studies to develop 
the faculty of abstract reasoning ; (2) incidentally 
predicting the mathematical astronomy and physics 
of the future. <= Both purposes tempt him to hammer 
his main point with Emersonian emphasis and to 
surprise attention with Ruskinian boutades in order to 
mark more clearly the distinction between himself 
and contemporary empiricists. Hence his satire of 
the substitution of experiment for mathematics in 
acoustics (531 a-b), and the intentional epigram- 
matic extravagance of his " leave the stars alone " 
(530 b). It is uncritical to quote these sentences 
apart from their entire context and treat them as 
if they were a deliberate and systematic attack on 
modern experimental science. 

The Four The description of the four degenerate types of 
Polities, state in the eighth book relieves the strain of dia- 
lectics and the tedium of continuous argument by 
one of the most brilliant pieces of A\Titing in Plato. 
Macaulay says it is " . . . beyond all criticism. I 

« Cf. on 529 A, 530 b. 

* " Platonism and the History of Science," Am. Philos. 
Soc. Proc. Ixvi. pp. 171 f.. What Plato Said, pp. 235-236 
" Cf. on 530 B. 

xlii 



INTRODUCTION 

remember nothing in Greek philosophy superior to 
tliis in profundity, ingenuity and eloquence." It 
serves further to lead up to the embodiment in the 
tyrant of the analogical argument that the unhappi- 

-s of the worst man matches the misery of the worst 
te. The objections to the book or to its place in 
tlie economy of the Republic raised by Aristotle and 
others are mostly captious irrelevances." 

The transition from the ideal state is resumed at 
the point where it was interrupted at the beginning 
of the fifth book,* and it is pretended that Books V., 
\'I. and VII. are a digression, though they are 
oljviously an indispensable part of the Republic." 
Matter-of-fact critics have argued that an ideal 
or perfect state would contain \Wthin itself no seeds 
of destruction and could not decay. But as Plato 
himself said, the philosophic state is a pattern or 
ideal which retains its value even if imperfectly 
realized.** It is a fundamental Platonic principle that 
only the divine is eternal and unchangeable. « All 
created and material things are subject to change. 
The universe itself is only as good as the Demiurgos 
was able to make it, and the created gods are pre- 
served from destruction only by his sustaining will.^ 

The riddle of the " nuptial " number that deter- 

" Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1316 a I f. iv d^ ry HoXirdtf Xiyerai fup 
Tepi Tuiv fiera^oKwv vnb rod 'ZwKpa.Tovt, ov fiivroi Xeyerai koKws, 
which is rather cool after all his borrowings from Rep. viii. 
in the preceding: pages. And in 1286 b 15 ff. he seems to 
accept the development of Rep. viii. See also Frutiger, 
Mythes de Platon, p. 42, 

* Cf. Vol. I. on 449 a-b. 
. • Cf. Vol. I. p. xvi. What Plato Said, p. 225. 

' Cf. on 499 D and What Plato Said, p. 564. 

' Cf. Symp. 207-208, Rep. vii. on the heavens, 530 b. 

f Cf. Tim. 37 d, 41 c-D, What Plato Said, p. 335. 
VOL. 11 d xliH 



INTRODUCTION 

mines the beginning of the dechne has never been 
solved to the satisfaction of a majority of competent 
critics. The solution would contribute something to 
our knowledge of early Greek mathematical termin- 
ology but nothing to our understanding of Plato's 
thought. Emerson's definitive word about it is, 
" He (Plato) sometimes throws a little mathematical 
dust into our eyes." The " meaning " of the number 
is simply Burke's statement (iv. p. 312) in Regicide 
Peace, p. 2, " I doubt whether the history of man- 
kind is yet complete enough, if ever it can be so, to 
furnish grounds for a sure theory on the internal 
causes which necessarily affect the fortune of a 
state."" But though the ultimate causes of de- 

" For Aristotle's opinion cf. Pol. 1316 a 5 If. For dis- 
cussions of the number cf. Zeller, Phil. d. Or. ii. 1*, pp. 
857-860 ; Jowett's translation of the Republic (1888), pp. 
cxxx ff. ; Adam, Republic, vol. ii. pp. 264-312 ; Ueberweg- 
Praechter, Philos. des Altertums (1926), 94* ff. ; Paul 
Tannery, " Le Nombre Nuptial dans Platon," Rev. Philos. i., 
1876, pp. 170-188 ; Georg Albert, Die platonische Zahl, 
Wien, 1896, and " Der Sinn der plat. Zahl," Philologus, vol. 
66(1907), pp. 153-156 ; J. Dupuis, " Le Nombre Geometrique 
de Platon," Annuaire de V Assoc, des Et. grecques, vol. 18, 
pp. 218-255 ; Frutiger, Mythes de Platon, pp. 47-48. Cf. 
also Gomperz, Greek Thinkers, iii. p. 336, C. Ritter, Platons 
Stellung zu den Aufgaben der Naturwissenschaft, pp. 91-94 ; 
Friedlander, Platon, i. p. 108; G. Kafka in Philologus 73, 
pp. 109-121 ; D. B. Monro in Class. Rev. vi. (1892) pp. 
152-156 ; and Adam, ibid. pp. 240-244, and xvi. pp. 17-23 ; 
Fr. Hultsch in Phil. Woch. xii. (1892) pp. 1256-1258. Cf. 
further Burnet, Early Greek Philosophy, p. 25 " It is to 
be observed that Plato's ' perfect year ' is also 36,000 solar 
years (Adam's Republic, vol. ii. p. 302), and that it is probably 
connected with the precession of the equinoxes " ; Carl 
Vering, Platons Staat, p. 167 " Den Biologen wird die 
Zahlenmystik Platons an die Mendelschen Vererbungs- 
tabellen erinnern, durch welche die geniale Ahnung Platons, 
dass as zahlenmassig darstellbare Vererbungsgesetze geben 
xliv 



INTRODUCTION 

generation escape our ken, Plato mentions a practical 
point that is of considerable significance to-day. 
Revolutions are due to the di\isions and discords of 
the dominant and educated classes." The allegory 
of the four metals is kept up. The dechne begins 
when the rulers no longer breed true and the gold 
is mixed with base alloy.* 

The limitation of the degenerate types of state to 
four is conscious and artistic. It should not be used 
to prove Plato's impatience of facts. There are end- 
less minor varieties of social and pohtical structure 
among the barbarians (5ii c-d). Plato leaves it to 
Aristotle and the political and social science depart- 
ments of the American universities to collect them." 
The sequence, timocracy, oligarchy, democracy and 
tyranny does not always reproduce the actual history 
of cities of Greece, but it anticipates many of the 
vicissitudes of modem history more suggestively than 
Aristotle's laborious collection of instances.** Plato 
occasionally forgets himself or lets himself go in con- 
temporary satire or allusion that points to Athens 

musse, nach mehr als 2000 Jahren ihre wlssenschafUiche 
Rechtfertigung gefimden hat." Cf. Baudrillart, J. Bodin 
et son temps, p. 360 "... A tout cela Bodin ajoute des 
calculs cabalistiques sur la duree des empires, sur le nombre 
nuptial ..." 

" R^. 545 D, Laws 683 e, 682 i>-e. Class. Phil. xvii. 
pp. 154-155. Cf. .\ristot. Pol. 1305 a 39. 

" 547 B. C/. 415 A-B. 

* Aristotle says that there are not only more kinds of 
government than these, but there are many sub-species of 
each. Cf. Aristot. Pol. vi., 1288 ff., 1279 b, 1229 a 8, 1289 a 8, 
Newman, vol. i. pp. 494 ff., and also Unity of Plato's Thought, 
pp. 62-63. 

'' The case of the French Revolution and the rise of 
Napoleon is one of the most outstanding examples. 

xlv 



INTRODUCTION 

rather than to any one of his four or five types." But 
the consistency of his hypothesis is sufficiently main- 
tained to satisfy any reasonable reader. The in- 
dividual types corresponding to the four political 
patterns are the earliest and among the best system- 
atic character-sketches in extant European literature 
and may be counted among the sources of the 
Characters of Theophrastus and their successors.* 

Book IX. sums up and concludes the main ethical 
argument of the Reptiblic. This is not the place for 
a systematic exposition of the Platonic ethics. 
Ethical philosophy as distinguished from exhortation 
and the code can always be stated in the form of a 
discussion of the validity of the moral law and the 
motives for obedience to it, in other words, the quest 
for the sanction." But this mode of statement is 
especially suited to ages of so-called enlightenment 
and transition when the very existence of a moral 
law or its binding force is challenged, whether seri- 
ously or as an intellectual game. 

Such in Plato's opinion was the age in which he 
lived. The main drift of the speculations of the 
pre-Socratic philosophers had been in the direction of 
materialism if not exactly atheism.** The populariza- 

" Cf., e.g., 549 c and 553 a with Adam's notes, 551 b, 
556 E, 562 D, 563 c, 565 b. 

^ Cf. also Matthew Arnold's description of the Barbarians 
and the Philistines in Culture and Anarchy. 

" Cf. Mill, Diss, and Disc. iii. p. 300 " The question con- 
cerning the summum bonum or what is the same thing, 
concerning the foundation of morality," etc. 

"* This has recently been denied. But the essential truth 
of the generalization is not appreciably affected by a few 
fragments whose religious, ethical and spiritual purpose is 
doubtful. 
xlvi 



INTRODUCTION 

tion of these ideas by the so-called sophists and their 
anplication to education, morals, politics and criticism 
of life had further tended to do away \\'ith all tradi- 
tional moral and religious checks upon instinct and 
individualism. And the embittered class conflicts 
and the long demoralization of the thirty years' war 
had completed the work of moral and spiritual dis- 
integration." The Greeks had lost their old stand- 
ards and had acquired no new, more philosophic, prin- 
ciples to take their place.* Plato's ears were dinned, 
he said, by the negations of materialists, atheists, 
relativists, and immoralists." How to answer them 
was the chief problem of his ethical philosophy. To 
satirize these immoralists or to depict their defeat 
in argument was one of the main motives of his 
dramatic art."^ 

The evidence in support of Plato's interpretation 
of contemporary Greek life and thought has been 
repeatedly collected from Aristophanes, Euripides, 
and Thucydides, the fragments of the sophists and 
the pre-Socratics and Plato's own writings.* This 
conservative view of the Greek " enlightenment " 
has in turn often been challenged by modern his- 
torians of liberal or radical tendencies, a Grote, a 

"■ See T. R. Glover, Democracy in the Ancient World, pp. 
7j-~7; supra. Vol. I. p. xxxvi; What Plato Said, pp. 6, 

in-u2. 

Cf. Rep. 538 c-e. 

Cf. Rep. 358 c, Protag. 333 c, Euthydem. 279 b, Phileb. 
(jt) E, Gorg. 470 d. Laws 662 c, 885 d. Soph. 265 c, Phaedo 
93 D. 

■* Cf. Gorg. 521 a-b. Rep. \., Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 25. 

' Cf. What Plato Said, p. 503, on Goro. 461 c, for references, 

and ibid. pp. 137, 145, 215 ff., 392-393, also W. Jaeger, 

" Die griechische Staatsethik im Zeitalter des Platon," Die 

Antike, Bd. x. Heft 1, esp. p. 8. 

xlvii 



INTRODUCTION 

Mill, a Gomperz, and their followers." The inter- 
preter of the Republic need only note the sincerity 
and intensity of Plato's conviction and its effect 
upon the form of his presentation of ethics. 

A complete study of the Platonic ethics would in- 
corporate many other ideas drawn from the Prot- 
agoras, the Philebus, the Laws, the minor Socratic 
dialogues, and perhaps from the Phaedrus and 
Symposium^' But the two chief ethical dialogues, 
the Gorgias and the Republic, are cast in the form 
of an answer to dogmatic and unabashed ethical 
nihilism. What is to be said to an uncompromising 
immoralist ? Is it possible to convince him, or failing 
that, to refute or seem to refute him to the edifica- 
tion of the bystander ? " The serious aim of both 
Gorgias and Republic is to convince and refute, but 
there are parts of the Gorgias and of the first book 
of the Republic in which the chief dramatic purpose 
is the exhibition of Socrates' superiority in argument 
to the sceptic. 

Many commentators ancient and modern object 
that Plato has not proved his case. They are not 
necessarily such immoralists as Plato had in mind. 
Such moralists as Grote, Mill and Leslie Stephen say 
that all men of goodwill would like to believe in the 
identity of virtue and happiness, but that the facts 
of experience are against it.** It is at best a general 

" Cf., e.g., Greek Thinkers, vol. i. ch. iv., esp. pp. 403-411. 

" See International Journal of Ethics, Jan. 19:^9, pp. 
232-233 ; What Plato Said, pp. 317, and 364 ; Unity of 
Plato's Thought, pp. 9-27. 

' Cf. What Plato Said, p. 141. 

"• Cf., e.g.. Science of Ethics, pp. 397-398, 434, and the 
whole problem of the book of Job. Cf. also Sidgwick, 
Method of Ethics, pp. 172-173. 

xlviii 



INTRODUCTION 

tendency or probability, not an invariable rule. 
Dryden is not sure that the law can always be verified 
on indiWduals, but is half humorously certain that it 
infallibly applies to nations, because in their case 
Pro\idence is too deeply engaged. 

The problem is too large to be incidentally solved 
by a commentator on the Republic. It is, as Plato 
himself would admit, partly a question of faith," 
and partly of the kind of evidence that is admitted 
as relevant. " Do you ask for sanctions ? " exclaims 
John Morley. " One whose conscience has been 
strengthened from youth in this faith can know no 
greater bitterness than the stain cast by a wrong act 
. . . and the discords that have become the ruling 
harmony of his days." * That is the kind of evidence 
to which Plato appeals when he argues that his 

« Cf. Gorg. 526 d. Laws 728, 904 d-e, Crito 54 b-c ; and 
Arnold, God and the Bible, chap. iii. p. 136 : " These truths 
. . . are the matter of an immense experience which is still 
going forward. . . . But if any man is so entirely without 
affinity for them ... for him Literature and Dogma was not 
written." 

* Cf. also Morley, Rousseau, ii. 280, Voltaire, p. 293; 
Fa^et, Pour qu'on Use Platon, pp. 99-101, 138 ; Gomperz, 
Greek Thinkers, iv. 257-258, 293-294 ; Huxley, Science and 
Hebrew Tradition, p. 339, and the entire controversy arising 
out of his Evolution and Ethics ; Arcesilas apud Brochard, 
Les Sceptiques grecs, p. 17 1. Cf. George Eliot's novels passim, 
and Mill's " Those whose conscientious feelings are so weak 
as to allow of their asking this question," which is practically 
equivalent to Shaftesbury's " If any gentleman asks why he 
should not wear a dirty shirt I reply that he must be a very 
dirty gentleman to ask the question." Cf. also Cicero, De 
officiis, iii. 29 ; Leslie Stephen, Science of Ethics, passim, 
e.g. 426 ff., and the arguments of Hazlitt, Macaulay and 
others against the Utilitarians. Such passages are a con- 
chisrve answer to the objection that Plato has not proved his 
case. 

xlix 



INTRODUCTION 

guardians will find more happiness in duty fulfilled 
than they would by grasping at what are commonly 
thought the good things of life." It is an argument 
that will not appeal to men of stunted moral sensi- 
bilities. The issue is, as Plato says, whether they are 
the best judges.'' The question has always been 
debated and always will be debatable, and there is 
little to add to the considerations on either side which 
Cicero develops in his perpetual reargument of the 
Stoic paradox, that virtue alone suffices for a happy 
life, and that the sage will be happy on the rack. 
Matthew Arnold, Emerson and George Eliot are as 
fixed in the faith as Plato. Experience, says Arnold, 
is perpetually sending the denier who says in his 
heart. There is no God, back to school to learn his 
lesson better.'' The writers most in vogue to-day 
would agree with Mill and Leslie Stephen, if not with 
Thrasymachus and Callicles.'* It is not necessary to 
determine this controversy in order to justify the 
Republic. To condemn the Republic because it is not 
a demonstration that leaves no room for doubt is to 
affirm that the question is not worth discussing, or 
that Plato's treatment of it falls short of what could 
reasonably be expected. If it is not a proof, has any 
one come nearer to a demonstration ? * 

" Rep. 419-420. Cf. Vol. I. pp. 314-315. 

" Cf. Rep. 580 D ff., Laws 658-659. 

" God and the Bible, p. xxxv. 

•^ Brochard, La Morale de Platan, says : "Aucun moraliste 
moderne n'entreprendrait de defendre la doctrine de Platon, 
qui apparait comme une gageure." Cf. Westermarck, Origin 
and Development of Moral Ideas, i. pp. 17, 18, 32 1 , and pas«m. 

' Cf. Leslie Stephen, Science of Ethics, p. 354 : " Evolution 
implies that there must be at least an approximate coincidence, 
and there is no apparent a priori reason why the coincidence 
should not be indefinitely close." 

1 



INTRODUCTION 

As to the desirability of the attempt, Plato thought 
that it is not safe to expose young minds to the un- 
answered propaganda of philosophies of immoralism 
and relativity. And recent experience of an amoral 
and irreligious education of the masses has not yet 
proved him WTong.** He beheved in his own argu- 
ments and in the doctrine which he taught. But 
apart from that he also beUeved that civilized society 
would disintegrate if morahty were not effectively 
preached.^ The charge hinted by Aristotle {Eth. x., 
1172 a 34-35) and often repeated that this implies the 
" economy of truth " '^ and the inner or double doc- 
trine is sufficiently refuted by the depth and intensity 
of Plato's own " adamantine " moral faith.** But 
however that may be, the question which he asks in 
his Laws still brings heart-searchings to the parent 
who has inherited a conscience from a generation 
that had not been swept from its moorings : What is 
a father to tell his son ? « But I cannot give more 
space to these eternal controversies and must turn 
to the direct summing-up of Plato's argument in the 
ninth book. 

Plato sums up the conclusions of the Republic in 
three formal arguments. The first is the broad 

" See my article in the June, 1934, number of the Atlantic 
Monthly, pp. 722-723. 

" Cf. Laws 890 d, 907 c, 718 d. 

• Laws 663 c-d (What Plato Said, p. 364) may imply 
" economy " in theology, but not in ethical religion. Cf. also 
What Plato Said, p. 626, and Isoc. Antid. 283 koL raPra 
KoX rah dXry^etatj oCtcjs ?xf' i^"-'- (TVfKp^pei t'ov rpoirov tovtov 
"KkyeadaL irepl axnCiv. Cf. Harnack, Hist, of Dogma, pp. 183- 
184 : " Gregory of Nazianzus speaks of a necessary and 
salutary olKOVotiridriva.L riqv dXTj^eiaf." 

«« Cf. Rep. 618 E, Laws 662 b. 

• Cf. Laws 662 d-663 a, What Plato Said, p. 364. 

li 



INTRODUCTION 

analogy between the individual and the state, which 
runs through the entire work." Plato feels that here 
he is not only clinching the subject, but finally 
grappling with the problem debated in the Gorgias 
and to which he returns in the Laws. He is gather- 
ing up all his forces for a defiant reply to the im- 
moralist and ethical nihilist. The result is an elabora- 
tion, an intensity, an insistency, a repetition that are 
offensive to readers who feel distaste for anything 
that savours of moral didacticism. 

The argumentative force of such an analogy is the 
cumulative impression of the detail that makes it 
plausible. Plato points the application of this argu- 
ment by a psychological portrait of the typical tyran- 
nical man, developed out of the democratic man as 
the democrat was developed from the oligarch. The 
literary symmetry strains the logic a little, for while 
the democratic man is the typical citizen of a demo- 
cracy, the typical citizen of a tyranny is not the tyrant 
himself, but any one of those whom he oppresses. 
But it does not matter. To heighten his effect Plato 
describes first the soul of the man destined to become 
a Greek tyrant, and then the intensification of all 
its defects and miseries by the actual possession 
and exercise of usurped power. 

Latent in all men are lawless instincts and appetites 
which reason and disciplined emotion hold in check, 
but which are sometimes revealed in dreams (571 b f.). 
In the tyrannical soul these lower propensities are 
unleashed. The censor, to borrow the language of 
a fashionable modern psychology, is dethroned, all 
control is abolished and the soul is at the mercy of 
the instincts of the night. Plato depicts the rake's 

" Cf. \'ol. I. p. XXXV. 

lii 



INTRODUCTION 

progress of what again in modern terminology we 
may call the typical gangster and boss in a lawless 
democracy. He is the son of a democratic father, 
but, milike his father, does not settle down into a 
tolerable compromise between the caprices of un- 
regulated desire and the principles of tradition (572 d). 
In him desire grown great, a monstrous Eros, a ruhng 
passion with its attendant train of appetites, usurps 
the throne and seizes the empty citadel of the mind, 
vacant of the only true guardians, the precepts of 
culture and right reason (573 a). He wastes his 
portion of the family inheritance, encroaches on the 
portion of his brothers, and if further advances are 
refused him does not shrink from the last outrage 
that Greek conservatism attributed to the " younger 
generation" — and "strikes his father."" He be- 
comes the chosen leader of a gang of like-minded 
roisterers from whom he is distinguished only by a 
more enterprising spirit and the greater strength of 
the principle of desire in his soul ; and the gang, 
if few, terrorize the city with crime (575 a-b), 
if many, strike the father- and mother-land, over- 
throw the constitution and estabUsh a tyranny 
(575 d). 

A modem moralist might improve the text that 
tile gangster lives in an atmosphere of greed, sus- 
picion and fear, and is destined finally to be shot 
by an ambitious rival. Plato, speaking in terms of 
Greek experience, makes the " tyrannical man " ful- 
fil his nature and perfect his type by becoming an 
actual tyrant of a Greek city. And he then de- 
scribes, perhaps in reminiscence of his own observa- 
tions at the court of Dionysius at Syracuse, and in 

« 674 c. Cf. Aristoph. Cloud» 1321 flF., 1421 flF. 

Uii 



INTRODUCTION 

prophetic anticipation of Caligula and Louis Napoleon, 
the hell of suspicion, fear and insatiate and un- 
satisfied desires in which such a tyrant lives." As 
the city which he misrules is, for all the splendour of 
the court and the courtiers, as a whole the most 
miserable of states, so is he, to the eye that can 
penetrate the dazzling disguise of pomp and power, 
" the farced title running 'fore the king," the most 
miserable of men (577-579). 

It is obvious that Plato forces the note a little 
in the interest of his thesis. In actual history the 
tyrant need not be the sensualist of Plato's descrip- 
tion. He may be only a cold-blooded, hard-headed 
Machiavellian, — in Plato's language a lover of honour 
and victory, not a lover of the pleasures that money 
purchases. But these cavils of a meticulous logic are 
beside the mark. The real argument, as we have 
said, is the psychological analysis and the facts of 
Greek experience that lend plausibility to the ana- 
logy. It prepares us to receive the more strictly 
philosophic and scientific arguments that are to 
follow. 

The gist of the second argument is that the intel- 
lectual, the philosopher, has necessarily experienced 
all three kinds of pleasure in his life, while the repre- 
sentatives of the two other types have no experience 
of the pleasures of pure intelligence (581-582). To this 
is added the consideration that the organ or instru- 
ment of all such judgements, reason and rational 

<• Cf. Tacitus, Ann. vi. 6 " neque frustra praestantissimus 
sapientiae firmare solitus est, si recludantur tyrannorum 
mentes, posse aspici laniatus et ictus, quando ut corpora 
verberibus, ita saevitia, libidine, malis consultis animus 
dilaceretur." 

Uv 



INTRODUCTION 

speech, is the special possession of the philosopher 
(582 a). This argument is never mentioned again 
by Plato and is by many critics, including Leslie 
Stephen," rejected as a fallacy. But John Stuart 
Mill accepts and makes use of it. 

The issue thus raised is really the old question of 
a distinction of quality and value in pleasure. No 
one can judge or prescribe another's pleasure, it is 
argued ; pleasure qua pleasure admits no differences.* 
But is there any such thing as pleasure qua pleasure ? 
Are there not always inseparable accompaniments 
and consequences ? And though the hog may be 
sole judge of his owti pleasures, is it on the whole as 
desirable or as pleasurable to be a hog as a man ? " 
There is room for interminable argument, for the 
entire problem of relativity is involved. If all judge- 
ments are relative, Plato elsewhere argues, we are 
committed to chaos. The dog-faced baboon, and 
not man or God, is the measure of all things.'* The 
very existence of the arts and the sciences pre- 
supposes that things are measured against standards 
and not merely against one another.^ Thus, though 
the argument is not repeated by Plato in this form, 
it suggests and implies most of the fundamental 
questions of his ethical philosophy. 

" He calls it " a familiar short cut to the desired con- 
clusion " {Science of Ethics, p. 399). Cf. also Sidgwick, 
Method of Ethics, p. 148. 

" Cf. Gorg. 494 e {What Plato Said, p. 508) and 499 b. 
See too Leslie Stephen, Science of Ethics, p. 400. 

Cf. Phileh. 67 b. What Plato Said, p. 611. There is no 
space to repeat or quote here the arguments against the utili- 
tarian point of view set forth by Macaulav and others.. Cf. 
also Sidg\iick, Method of Ethics, pp. 93-94, 121. 

" Cf. Theaet. 161 c. Laws 716 c. 

• Cf. Politicus 284 B-c, 285 a-b. 

Iv 



INTRODUCTION 

The third argument, drawn from the negativity of 
the pleasure of sense, is the basis of the Platonic 
ethics, so far as it is an arguable doctrine. It is 
necessary to dwell upon this point, for it is commonly 
said that Plato's ethical philosophy is deduced from 
the idea of good.** That is true only from one quite 
special point of view. The idea of good, as we have 
seen, is a postulate of the logic of ethics and of the 
higher education of the philosopher. It is a blank 
cheque that supports the credit of the system but 
which is not filled in. No virtue and no particular 
" good " is adequately defined until it is explicitly 
related to an idea of good (505 a, 506 a). It may 
be defined provisionally and sufficiently for a given 
purpose in terms of psychology or tradition or with 
a tacit reference to an implied conception of good 
(504 a-b). But nowhere in Plato's writings are de- 
finite controversial arguments or substantive prin- 
ciples of ethical philosophy or rules of practice de- 
duced from the idea of good. It is merely said that 
an ethical philosophy is not complete until we have 
decided what is our sanction. 

But such principles are deduced from the negativity 
of the "lower " pleasures throughout Plato's writings.^ 
This supplies the missing link in the argument of the 
Protagoras that virtue and happiness depend on the 
correct estimate of pleasures and pains.'' The doc- 
trine is implied in the Phaedo (83-84). It is distinctly 
suggested in the Gorgias (493 ff.). It crowns the 

" Of. W. H. Fairbrother, " The Relation of Ethics to 
Metaphysics," Mind, xiii., 1904, p. 43; Martineau, Types 
of Ethical Theory, 1886, p. xxvi. Gf. supra, p. xxvi. 

" Cf. supra, p. xxvi. 

" Cf. What Plato Said, pp. 130-131. 

ivi 



11 



INTRODUCTION 

argument of the Republic (583 b fF.). It is elaborated 
ill the Pkilebus in order to reach a final settlement 
of the controversy dramatized in the Gorgias. It is 
tacitly employed in the endeavour of the Laws (660 
E-663 e) to attach a practicable edifying conclusion 
to the utilitarian arguments of the Protagoras. The 
statement of the doctrine in the Republic, though 
briefer than that of the Pkilebus, touches on all the 
essential points, as the notes will show. It cannot be 
proved to be either a resume or an imperfect anticipa- 
tion of the developed theory. It cannot be used to 
date the ninth book of the Republic relatively to the 
Pkilebus.'^ 

I am not here speaking of the absolute truth of 
the doctrine, but only of its demonstrable relation 
to Plato's ethical philosophy. As I have elsewhere 
said,^ Plato teaches that sensuous pleasures are in 
their nature impure and illusory. They are precon- 
ditioned by, and mixed with, desire, want, pain. 
" Surgit amari aliquid " is ever true of them. They 
are the relief of an uneasiness, the scratching of an 
itch, the filling of a vacuum." To treat them as real, 
or to make them one's aim (except so far as our 
human estate requires), is to seek happiness in a pro- 

' Though the Philehus is in fact later than the Republic, as 
Mill said long before style statistics were thought of. 

* Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 24. 

* Already in the Gorgias, 493 e, 494 c and the Phaedrus 
258 E wv irpoXvTrjdrjvai 5u fj firjde rjcrdTJvai, etc. ; Rep. 584 
A-B, It has even been argued that the Phaedrus passage 
takes for granted the fuller discussion of the Pkilebus 
(W. H. Thompson, Phaedrus, ad loc.), and why not? 
Anything may be argued if the dialogues are supposed 
to grow out of one another and not out of Plato's 
mind. 

Ivii 



INTRODUCTION 

cess rather than a state,** in becoming rather than in 
being. It is to bind oneself to the wheel of Ixion 
and pour water into the bottomless jar of the 
Danaids.^ Far happier, far more pleasurable, is the 
life that consistently aims at few and calm pleasures, 
to which the sensualist would hardly give the name, 
a hfe which he would regard as torpor or death." 

Both the physiology and the psychology of this 
doctrine have been impugned. It has been argued 
that, up to the point of fatigue, the action of healthy 
nerves involves no pain, and must yield a surplus 
of positive sensuous pleasure. It is urged that the 
present uneasiness of appetite is normally more than 
counterbalanced by the anticipation of immediate 
satisfaction. Such arguments will carry no weight 
with those who accept Plato's main contention, that 
the satisfactions of sense and ambition, however 
" necessary," have no real worth, and that to seek 
our true life in them is to weave and unweave the 
futile web of Penelope. Whatever qualifications 
modern psychology may attach to the doctrine, it is 
the logical basis of Plato's ethics. The unfeigned 

° Phileb. 53 c ff., 54 e virtually = (?or5r. 493 e. Cf. What 
Plato Said, pp. 322-323. The literal-minded objection of 
Aristotle, Eth. Nic. 1174 b, and some moderns, that pleasure 
is not literally — KlvrjCTis, is beside the point. 

* Gorg. 493 b T€Tpr)/j.^vos widos, etc., Phaedo 84 a av- 
■Ijvvrov ipyov . . . UrjveXdirrjs 1<tt6v, Gorg. 507 E, Phileb. 
54 E. 

" Phaedo 64 b, Gor^. 492 e, Phileb. 54 e Kai (paai ^rjv ovk 
&v Si^aadai, etc. In Laws 733, 734 b, the hedonistic calculus 
of the Protagoras is retained, but is applied not directly to 
the individual acts, but to types of life. The life of moderate 
pleasures is a priori the more pleasurable because it neces- 
sarily yields a more favourable balance than the life of intense 
pleasures. 
Iviii 



INTRODUCTION 

recognition of the inherent worthlessness of the lower 
pleasures removes at once the motive and the lures 
to evil." It is the chief link in the proof that virtue 
is happiness. It insures the domination of reason 
over feeling and appetite. It moulds man into 
that likeness to the divine pattern which is Plato's 
expression for the ethical ideal," for the divine life 
knows neither pleasure nor pain." It is the serious 
argument that explains Plato's repudiation of the 
hedonistic formulas of the Protagoras ^ and justifies 
the noble anti-hedonistic rhetoric of the Gorgias,' 
the Phaedo/ and the Philebus (in fine). 

Regarded as a logical system, then, and meta- 
physics apart, the Platonic ethics is not to be de- 
duced from the idea of good. It is best studied and 
expounded under a few simple heads : (1) illustrations 
in the minor dialogues of the necessity and the diffi- 
culty of defining ethical terms ; (:2) the search for 
arguments that vdW convince, or at least confute, the 
ethical nihilism of a war-weary, cynical and over- 
enhghtened generation — for proof, in short, that 
virtue and happiness coincide ; (3) the attempt to 
find a compromise between the necessity of acknow- 
ledging the truth in a certain sense of hedonistic 
utilitarianism and our justifiable idealistic distaste 
for that way of describing the moral life ; (l) as an 
essential part of the argument of both (2) and (3), the 
principle of the comparative worthlessness of the 

• Phaedo &Q c. Rep. 586 a-b, 588. 

» Theaetet. 176 b ff.. Laws 716 d, 728 a-b, Rep. 352 a-b, 
•12 E, Phileh. 39 E. 

• Phileb. 33 b. 

• Cf. What Plato Said, p. 500. 

• 512 D-E, What Plato Said, p. 149. 

' 69 A, What Plato Said, pp. 171 and 174. 
VOL. 11 « lix 



INTRODUCTION 

lower or sensual pleasures, which, except so far as 
necessary, are bought at too high a price, because 
they are preconditioned by pain." 

These categories are not of my invention. They are 
the topics on which ethical discussion actually turns 
in the dialogues. The Republic supplies ample illus- 
tration of all these topics. The first book, like the 
Gorgias, dramatizes Socrates' dialectic superiority 
to the immoralist. The second book restates the 
issue in its most fundamental form. The fourth book 
resumes and for practical purposes provisionally 
solves the puzzles of the definition of the virtues in the 
minor Socratic dialogues. The allegory of the idea of 
good, rightly understood, shows what Plato meant in 
these minor dialogues by making the failure to define 
virtue always turn on the inability to discover the 
" good." The ninth book, as we have seen, sums up 
the argument and adds a sufficiently explicit exposi- 
tion of the doctrine of the negativity of pleasure, 
which, as the Philehus shows, is the indispensable basis 
of the scientific and calculating ethics postulated in 
the Protagoras. 

But true virtue is something more than argument, 
and its mood, as an eloquent passage of the Phaedo 
protests, is not that of the prudential, calculating 
reason. '' And so the argument of the ninth book, 
like that of the fourth, culminates in an appeal through 
imagery and analogy to the imaginative reason and 
the soul. There (444-145) it was urged that the health 
and harmony of the soul must be still more indispens- 

<• See my review of Lodge in International Journal of 
Ethics, xxxix. pp. 232-233, and for the ethical argument 
of the Republic as a whole my " Idea of Justice in Plato's 
RepubHc," The Ethical Record, January 1890, pp. 185-199. 

" Phaedo 69 a f., What Plato Said, p. 500. 
Ix 



INTRODUCTION 

able to true happiness than that of the body. And 
we saw that the most scientific of modern ethical 
philosophies is finally forced back upon the same 
analogy." In the conclusion of the ninth book the 
motif recurs with still greater elaboration and in a 
more eloquent chmax. Every animal of the barn- 
yard, Plato says in anticipation of Emerson and Freud, 
has found lodgement ^vithin this external sheath of 
humanity. And the issue for every human soul is 
whether it chooses to foster the snake, the lion and 
the ape, or the man, the mind, and the god A^ithin the 
mind.* Surely the wiser choice is that which values 
all the so-called goods, for which men scramble and 
contend, only as they tend to preserve or destroy the 
true constitution and health of the soul. This polity 
of the sober and righteous soul is the symbol of that 
City of God which may exist nowhere on earth but 
on which as a pattern laid up in heaven he who will 
may fix his eyes and constitute himself its citizen.*' 

A characteristic feature of Plato's art both in great The Banish- 
and Uttle matters is the climax after the apparent poetry. 
climax.'* The tenth book of the Republic, which is in 
a sense an appendix, adds the climax of the originally 
disavowed religious sanction of immortality to that of 
the appeal to the imaginative reason. The interven- 
ing digression in defence of the banishment of the 
poets is in effect, if not in Plato's conscious intention, 
a relieving interval of calm between the two peaks of 
feeling. For the rest, the deeper psychology of the 

" Cf. Vol. I. p. xvi. 
» Rep. 589 i>-E. Cf. Tim. 90 a-b. 
* Cf. Vol. I. pp. xlii-xliii. 

*• Cf. supra. Vol. I. pp. xxi-xxii, Wfiat Plato Said, pp. 140, 
189, 248, infra, p. 104. 

Ixi 



INTRODUCTION 

philosophic books and the theory of ideas expounded 
there invited a reconsideration of the subject and 
provided arguments based, not on the content of the 
Homeric epic, but on the essential nature of poetry 
and its influence. 

The two arguments that have exercised the de- 
fenders of poetry from Aristotle to Arnold * are that 
poetry is not truth but imitation, a copy of a copy, 
and that poetry fosters emotion and so weakens the 
salutary control of feeling by the reason and the will. 
In support of the first the theory of ideas is invoked 
in a form so intentionally simplified that it has given 
rise to the fantastic hypothesis that this book must 
represent an earlier period of Plato's philosophy.^ 
God made one idea of a couch. The artisan copies it 
in many material couches. The artist with words or 
colours copies, not the idea, but the copy. This argu- 
ment of course could be and has been answered in its 
own terms by the claim of Browning's Fra Lippo 
Lippi that the genius of the artist does directly appre- 
hend the idea or essence of things and reveal it to 
those who can see only through his eyes." But the 
real question whether art deals with truth or appear- 
ance is independent of Plato's half-serious formulation 
of it in the language of the theory of ideas. It is 
still debated, and it is the business of the interpreters 
of Plato to understand, not necessarily to pronounce 
judgement. 

The question whether poetry's chief function is to 

" Sidney's Defense of Poesy is probably the most familiar. 

* Cf. What Plato Said, p. 249, supra, p. xviii. 

" For, don't you mark, we're made so that we love 

First when we see them painted, things we have passed 
Perhaps a hundred times nor cared to see ; 
And so they are better, painted — better to us. 

Ixii 



INTRODUCTION 

stimulate and exercise emotion, or to relieve, purge,"* 
refine, purify, sublimate and exalt it, likewise raises 
an issue which still di\'ides psychologists, educators 
and critics. Its determination perhaps involves a 
great and deliberate choice in the acceptance and 
management of life as a whole. Plato's decision to 
banish the honeyed Muse from his ideal city repre- 
sents only one aspect of his many-sided nature. It is 
obviously not, as is sometimes absurdly said, an 
expression of his insensibiUty to Hellenic poetry and 
art. It was his o\\"n sensitiveness that made him fear 
its power. He himself wrote verse in youth.* His 
imagery, the invention of his myths and the poetic 
quality of his prose rank him with the world's major 
poets." He quotes poetry with exquisite and fond 
aptness throughout his writings.** And there are no 
more mstful words than his reluctant dismissal of the 
supreme poet, the author and source of all these 
beauties of epic and tragedy, the Ionian father of the 
rest — Homer.* However, Plato's ethical convictions 
gave him the courage of Guyon (Faery Queene, il. xii. 
83) in dealing with these enchantments : 

" Aristotle's doctrine of Kd6ap<ns. Cf. my review of 
Finsler, " Platon and die aristotelische Poetik," Class. Phil. 
iii. pp. 461-462 ; also The Xation, xc. (1910) p. 319 ; Sikes, 
Greek View of Poetry, pp. 118-125. 

" Cf. What Plato Said, pp. 17 ff. 

' Cf. Friedlander, Platon, i. pp. 196 and 200 ; Sidney, in 
English Men of Letters, p. 150 " Of all the philosophers he 
is the most poetical ; " Chesterton, The Resurrection of Rome, 
p. 57 " But when we remember that the great poet Plato (as 
he must be called) banished poets from his Republic, we have 
a glimmer of why the great Greek Emperor banished sculptors 
from his empire." 

"* Cf. What Plato Said, pp. 7-9 ; Unity of Plato's Thought, 
pp. 81-82. 

' Rep. 607 c-D ; cf. What Plato Said, p. 250. 

Ixiii 



INTRODUCTION 

But all those pleasaunt bowres and Pallace brave 
Guyon broke downe with rigour pittilesse ; 
Ne ought their goodly workmansnip might save 
Them from the tempest of his wrathfulnesse." 

i^eDoctrine The guerdons of righteousness, worldly or other- 
lity. worldly, were explicitly excluded in the original 

formulation of the question whether justice is or is 
not intrinsically its own reward. ** But now, having 
proved his case independently of these, Plato thinks 
that no one can fairly object if he points out that in 
fact honesty is usually the best policy even in this 
world, and that there is good hope that the legends 
of a life and judgement to come are in essence true." 
There are hints of a life after death earlier in 
the Republic.'^ And nothing can be inferred from 
Glaucon's perhaps affected surprise at Socrates' offer 
to prove it. The immortality of the soul as an article 
of faith and hope, a sanction of moral law, an inspira- 
tion of poetry, will be treated lightly by no student of 
humanity. But there is a certain lack of intellectual 
seriousness in taking it seriously as a thesis of meta- 
physical demonstration.^ Plato's belief in immortal- 
ity was a conviction of the psychological and moral 
impossibility of sheer materialism, and a broad faith 
in the unseen, the spiritual, the ideal. The logical 
obstacles to a positive demonstration of personal 
immortality were as obvious to him as they are to 
his critics./ The immortality of the individual soul 

" See also my review of Pater, Plato and Platonism in The 
Dial, xiv. (1893) p. 211. 

<- Cf. Bk. ii., esp. 367 b-e. 

" Cf. What Plato Said, p. 251. 

" Cf. 330 D-E and Vol. I. p. 16. 

* Cf. Wfiat Plato Said, pp. 180, 177, 535. 

' See my review of Gaye, The Platonic Conception of 
Immortality, in Philos. Rev. xiv., 1905, pp. 590-595, 

Ixiv 



INTRODUCTION 

is for Plato a pious hope " and an ethical postulate ^ 
rather than a demonstrable certainty.'' He essays 
various demonstrations, but nearly always in con- 
nexion ^vith a myth, and of all the proofs attempted 
but one is repeated.** In the Apology Socrates, 
addressing his judges, affects to leave the question 
open.* But we cannot infer from this that the 
Apology antedates Plato's belief in immortality, and 
Socrates' language in Crito 54 b is precisely in the 
tone of the Gorgias and the PhaedoJ 

Immortality was affirmed before Plato by Pyth- 
agorean and Orphic mystics, and in the magnificent 
poetry of Pindar's Second Olympian Ode it is distinctly 
associated with a doctrine of future rewards and 
punishments. But Plato was the first great writer 
to enforce it by philosophical arguments, or impress 
it upon the imagination by \i\id eschatological myths. 
And the Platonic dialogues, as Rohde shows ,» re- 
mained the chief source of the hopes and aspirations 
of the educated minority throughout subsequent 
antiquity. Plato's name was the symbol and rally- 
ing point of the entire reUgious and philosophic 

" Phaedo 1 14 d xPV ■''« roiavra. Siairep iTrq.S€iv eavrt^, Gorg. 
524 A-B, Phaedo 67 b. 

» Rep. 608 c ff.. Laws 881 a, 967 d-e, 959 a-b ; with rbv 
Hi 6vTa i)ixQjv (KavTov 6vtus dddvarov [ehai] •^I'X^" cf. 
Phaedo 115 d-e, and with the idea, 959 b, that the only 
Pofri0€ia at the bar of Hades is a just life in this world, cf. 
Gorg. 522 c-d, 526 e, Crito 54 b. 

* Phaedo 85 c t6 niv craipii eidevcu iv rtp yOv /3t<(> ^ 
ASwarov elfai ij TrayxaXfirov ri. Cf. 107 A-B, Tim. 72 d, 
Meno 86 a-b, Phaedr. 265 c. 

" That based on the theory that the soul is the source of all 
motion, Phaedr. 245 c flF., I^ics 893 b flF. 

• 40 D. Cf. also Phaedo 91 b. 

' Cratylus 403 d-e implies the doctrine of Phaedo 67, 68. 
" Pg^yche 5th and 6th ed., vol. ii. p. 265. 



INTRODUCTION 

opposition to the dogmatic materialism of the 
Epicureans and of the positive wing of the Peri- 
patetics. Cicero and Plutarch were in this his 
disciples. The more wistful and religious spirits of 
Stoicism — a Seneca, a Marcus Aurelius — came more 
and more to see in Platonism the hopeful " alterna- 
tive " of the great perhaps. Neo-Platonists and 
Neo-Pythagoreans never grew weary of expanding 
and allegorizing the great myths of the Gorgias, 
Phaedo, and Republic. They were directly or in- 
directly the chief inspiration of the sixth book of 
the Aeneid, and in the majority of later sepulchral 
epigrams that express the hope of immortality a 
Platonic colouring is perceptible. All this was due 
far more to the spell of Plato's genius than to the 
force of his arguments. That the soul is the principle 
of motion {Phaedr. 245 c ff., Laws 893 b fF.), that it 
must have pre-existed because its apprehension of 
the ideas is reminiscence (Phaedo 72 e ff.), that it 
could be destroyed only by its own specific evil, 
injustice, which does not in fact destroy it (Rep. 
608-611), that it cannot cease to exist because the 
idea of life which is essentially present with it will 
not admit its opposite (Phaedo 105 d-e) — these argu- 
ments may convince metaphysicians, but they will 
not stir the " emotion of conviction " that is fostered 
by the serene confidence of Socrates in the hour of 
death (Phaedo 114-118), by the vivid vision of the 
scarred and naked soul shivering at the bar of 
Rhadamanthus (Gorg. 524 d-e), by the detailed 
verisimilitude of the message brought back by the 
" Angel from there," Er, the son of Armenius (Rep. 
614 B ff.). 

The Epicureans and the more austere Stoics 

Ixvi 



INTRODUCTION 

I ensured this mythological symbolism as unworthy 
of a philosopher ; and Emerson contrasts Plato's 
license of affirmation with the self-restraint of the 
Author of Christianity, who refused to entertain the 
populace with that picture. But Plato has antici- 
pated their criticism, saying in substance : No 
reasonable man will affirm that these things are 
])recisely as I have described them. But since the 
soul is immortal, something of the kind must be true, 
and we ought to repeat and croon it over to ourselves 
in order to keep faith and hope alive {Phaedo 114 d). 
This plea could be rejected only by those who are 
willing to affirm that Plato's poetical imaginings have 
been more harmful in the encouragement of super- 
stition than helpful in the maintenance of religious 
hope and moral faith." 

But what of the metaphysical arguments ? Did 
Plato himself take them seriously ? And are they, 
therefore, to be taken seriously by the interpreters 
of his philosophy ? Are they essential links in a 
svstem ? Can we find in them clues to the progress 
and development of his thought and even date the 
dialogues with their aid ? It is not necessary to 
answer these questions here. On the validity of the 
arguments it would be idle to waste words. Some of 
them, reinforced bv the Theaetetus, may help to show 
the inadequacy of a dogmatic materialistic psychology . 
At the most they prove the eternity of something 
other than " matter " which may be called " soul." 
They do not prove the immortality of the individual 
soul, which is nevertheless plainly taken as proved 
in the eschatological myths and their ethical applica- 

* Cf. my article in the June, 1934, number of the Atlantic 
Monthly, p. 1-21. 

Ixvii 



INTRODUCTION 

tions. That the supreme dialectician, Plato, was him- 
self unaware of that which is so readily perceived by 
every puny whipster who thinks to get his sword is 
to me unthinkable. A semblance of precedent proof 
was essential even to the literary effect of the con- 
cluding myths. And Plato himself in the Laws has 
warned us that an affirmative answer to some questions 
is required for the salvation of society and the moral 
government of mankind." 

But the myth itself is the really significant ex- 
pression of Plato's hope and faith, and of its influence, 
hardly less than that of some national religions, upon 
the souls of men. After enumerating the blessings 
that normally attend the old age of the righteous 
man in this world, he says, we may fitly allow our 
imagination to dwell upon the rewards that await 
him in the world to come. 

The enormous literature of the Platonic myths ^ 
deals partly with their conjectural sources, partly 
with their place and function in Plato's art and philo- 
sophy, and too little with the framework of definite 
meaning as distinguished from the remoter and more 
fanciful suggestions with which the ingenuity of 
commentators has sometimes obscured it. Leaving 
the translation and the notes to speak for themselves, 
I need here say only a few words on this last point. 

" Cf. supra, p. li. 

* Cf., e.g., L. Couturat, De mythis Platonicis, Stewart, 
The Myths of Plato, with my review in Journal of Philos., 
Psy. and Scientific Method, 3, pp. 495-498 ; P. Frutiger, Les 
Mythes de Platon ; Karl Reinhardt, Platons Mythen, Bonn, 
1937; Friedlander, Platon, i. pp. 199 ff . ; W. Willi, Versuch 
einer Grundlegung der platonischen Mythopoiie; J. Tate, 
" Socrates and the Myths," Class. Quarterly, xxvii. (April 
1933) pp. 74-80; V. Brochard, "Les Mythes dans la philo- 
sophic de Platon," UAnnee Philos., 1900, pp. 1-13. 
Ixviii 



INTRODUCTION 

If I may use without entirely adopting Professor 
Stewart's distinction between myth and allegory, the 
distinctive feature of the Platonic myth is that it 
embodies and reconciles the conflicting excellences 
of both — -the transcendental feeling, the poetic 
mysticism of the true myth and the, to Professor 
Stewart, almost offensive lucidity of the allegory. 
In this it only exalts and intensifies a feature of 
Plato's style as a whole. He is unique in his power 
to reconcile formal dialectic and deliberate rhetoric 
with imagination and sincerity of feeling. He 
announces the effect that he intends to produce and 
produces it in defiance of the psychology of Goethe's 
" Da fuhlt man Absicht und man wird verstimmt." 
He can pour his imagination, his poetry, his mysti- 
cism, his exhortation, and his edification into a pre- 
determined logical mould. He modulates from one 
chord to the other at the precise moment when 
satiety begins." He starts from a definition, pro- 
ceeds by analysis and division through firsthes and 
secondlies to perorations that sweep the emotional 
reader off his feet and make him forget or deny the 
dialectic that conducted him to the mount of vision. 
As Emerson puts it, " He points and quibbles ; and 
by and by comes a sentence that moves the sea and 
land." ^ 

• Cf., e.g., Phaedo 115 a, 77 e-78 a, Euthyphro 6 b-c, 11 
B-c, Gorg. 507 e. The little sermons scattered through the 
Laws have the same effect. C/. in Goethe's Faust the chorus 
of angels followed by the devil. Cf. Carl Vering, Platans 
Staat, p. 7 " Ein Dialog Platons wirkt niemals ermudend ; 
jedesmal greift der Dichter Platon sofort ein, wenn der 
Philosoph durch ein schweres Problem dem Leser hart 
zugesetzt hat." Cf. also Sikes, Greek View of Poetry, p. 128. 

• Cf, e.g., Symp. 211-212, Gorgias, in fine, Phaedo 114 c. 
Rep., in fine. 

Ixix 



INTRODUCTION 

The definite thoughts embodied in the myth of Er 
the son of Armenius belong to Plato's permanent 
stock of opinions and do not differ appreciably from 
those of his other myths or the implied conclusions of 
his arguments." The saving faith in immortality and 
judgement to come cannot rest on scientific demon- 
stration only. It needs the confirmations of imagina- 
tion, intuition, vision, revelation. The universe is a 
wonderful place whose structure is known to us only 
imperfectly and in part. Symbols are the fit expres- 
sion of our dim apprehensions of its infinite possi- 
bilities. Heaven and hell are symbols of the most 
vital of all divisions, that which separates the virtuous 
from the vicious will. Purgatory may mark the dis- 
tinction between remediable and curable wrong and 
that which admits of no pardon.* They are perhaps 
states of mind rather than places, but imagination 
may use what our imperfect science knows or divines 
of the world beneath our feet or the universe above 
our heads to give them a local habitation and a 
name, and our fancy may play in like manner Avith 
the ultimate unanswerable questions of philosophy : 
Whence comes evil " ? and are our wills free ** ? If the 
soul is immortal and lives through endless transforma- 
tions and transmigrations, it may be that the evil 
which baffles us here had its origin in some defect of 
will in worlds before the man {Rep. 613 a). Perhaps 
a great choice was offered to us and we chose wrong 
under the influence of mistaken ideas acquired in 
a former misspent life (618-619). Whatever the 

" Cf. the notes on 614 ff. 

* Cf. What Plato Said, p. 536, on Phaedo 113 d and 113 e. 

' Cf. What Plato Said, p. 578, on Theaet. 176 a. 

<* Cf. What Plato Said, pp. 644-645, on Laws 904 c. 

Ixx 



INTRODUCTION 

measure of truth in these fancies two principles of 
religion and morals stand fast. God is blameless 
17 e), and we must always blame rather ourselves." 
iir wills are somehow ours to make them his ; though 
we must think of the sins of others as due solely to 
i'rnorance.'' It matters not that the Aristotelians 
^^ill argue that this is reasoning in a circle." We 
know and must believe that virtue is free (617 e). 
And all the divinations of the soul and all the pro- 
founder interpretations of experience reiterate the 
lesson that the way of life that will present us fearless 
at the bar of eternal justice is the way that ^vill yield 
the truest happiness here.'' If we hold to that faith, 
then both in our earthly pilgrimage and in all the 
adventures of the soul hereafter, with us it will be 
well. 



The Text 

As regards the text I have little to add to what was 
said in the first volume, except a few qualifications to 
avoid misunderstanding. I have tried to be a little 
more careful than I was in the first volume in correct- 
ing minor inconsistencies due to the reprinting of the 
Teubner text of Hermann. But the opportunities 
which these might afford to captious criticism do not 
in the least affect the main principle or its applica- 
tions. That is simply that the variations between the 

" Cf. Laws 727 b, R«p. 619 c, Phaedo 90 d, Cratyl. 411 c, 
etc. 

" Cf. Protag. M5 d-e, 358 c-d. Laws 734 b, and What Plato 
Said, p. 640, on 860 d. 

« Cf. Aristot. Eth. 1114b 19. 

* R^. 621 c. Cf. Gorg. 526 d-e, Phaedo 114 e. 

Ixxi 



INTRODUCTION 

chief modern editions rarely make any difference for 
Plato's thought or even for his style, and that the 
decision between different readings in the case of 
Plato should usually turn, notonanyscientificprinciple 
of text criticism, but on knowledge of Plato and 
knowledge of the Greek language. To put it drasti- 
cally : for all practical purposes of the student of the 
Greek language, literature and philosophy, Her- 
mann's text of the Republic is quite as good as the 
more scientific text of Burnet or the text that might 
be constructed from the critical notes in Wilamowitz' 
appendix. Hermann's judgement on questions of 
Greek idiom and Platonic usage was quite as good as 
theirs. This is not meant as an illiberal disparage- 
ment of the great and indispensable special disciplines 
of text criticism and palaeography. It is merely a 
commonsense vindication of the intellectual right of 
those who prefer to do so to approach the study of 
Plato from another point of view. 



The Translation 

As regards the translation, I impenitently reaffirm 
the principles that I stated in the preface to the first 
volume — whatever errors of judgement I may commit 
in their application. Much of the Republic can be 
made easy reading for any literate reader. But some 
of the subtler and more metaphysical passages can be 
translated in that way only at the cost of misrepre- 
sentation of the meaning. In order to bring out the 
real significance of Plato's thought it is sometimes 
necessary to translate the same phrase in two ways, 
sometimes to vary a phrase which Plato repeats or 
Ixxii 



I 



INTRODUCTION 

rrj>eat a synonym which he prefers to vary. It is 
(itten desirable to use two words to suggest the two- 
fold associations of one. To take the simplest ex- 
ample, it is even more misleading to translate eidos 
" Form " than it is to translate it " idea " — " idea or 
form " (without a capital letter) is less likely to be 
misunderstood. 

Again, Plato did not write in the smooth, even 
style which Dionysius of Halicamassus admired in 
Lysias and Matthew Arnold in Addison, and it is not 
the business of the translator to clothe him in the 
garb of that style. 

Pro\"ided the meaning is plain and the emphasis 
right, he allows himself unlimited freedom in ana- 
coluthons, short cuts, sharp corners, ellipses and 
generally in what I have elsewhere called illogical 
idiom. Anyone who does not hke that style should 
give his days and nights to the study of Isocrates and 
Lysias. According to his mood and the context 
Plato's style ranges from Attic simplicity to meta- 
physical abstraction, from high-flown poetical prose 
to plain colloquial diction. And his colloquialism, 
though usually kept within the bounds of Attic ur- 
banity, is not lacking in Aristophanic touches which, 
if rightly rendered, shock the taste of critics who 
approach him with a stronger sense of the dignity of 
philosophy than they have of Greek idiom. In defer- 
ence to friendly criticism I have generally suppressed 
or transferred to footnotes my attempts to reproduce 
this feature of Plato's style. But I am not con\inced. 
As Taine aptly says {Life and Letters, p. 53), " M. 
Cousin's elegant Plato is not at all like the easy . . . 
but always natural Plato of reality. He would shock 
us if we saw him as he is." 

Ixxiii 



PLATO 

THE REPUBLIC 
BOOKS VI— X 



VOL. II 



nOAITEIA 

[h nEPI AIKAIOr, nOAITIKOS] 

TA TOT AIAAOrOT HPOSfiHA 

2nKPATH2, TAATKON, nOAEMAPX05, ©PASTMAXOS, 

AAEIMANT02, KE*AA05 

St. T. II. p. ^ ^ 

484 I- 01 fiev hrj (fnXoaocjiOL, '^v 8' iyco, w TXavKcuv, 

Kal ol fxrj Sta fiaKpov tlvos Bie^eXdovTos^ Xoyov \ 

fjLoyLs TTCos ave(l)dvrjaav ol elaiv eKarepoL. "lacos ; 
yap, e^Tj, Sia /3pa;^eos' ov paSiov. Ov ^atVerat, 

CLTTOV epLOL yovv eri. hoKet av ^eXriovcx)? (f)avrjvai, el > 

TTepl rovTov fxovov eSet pr^drjvai, Kal firj ttoXXo. to. ', 

XoLTTO. SieXdcLV fxeXXovTi Karoifjeadai ri hi,a(j)€p€i ' 

"B ^ios St/cato? aSiKov. Tt ovv, €(f>r], to fiera tovto ] 

rjfitv; Ti 8' aAAo, ■^v 8' iyco, ^ to e^rjs; eTretSi^ ! 

^iX6uo(j)OL jxev ol rov aet Kara ravra ojaavrcos \ 

€XOVTOS 8vvd{JL€voi iifxiTTreadaL, ol 8e pL-q dXX iv I 

1 die^eXOofTos ADM, die^eXdSvres F. ' 

" The argument is slightly personified. Cf, on 503 a. I 

* It is captious to object that the actual discussion of the I 

philosopher occupies only a few pages. ' 

' This is the main theme of the Republic, of which Plato 

never loses sight. 

2 






THE REPUBLIC 

[on ON JUSTICE : political] 

CHARACTERS 

SocHATES, Glaucox, Polemahchus, Thrastmachus, 
Adeimaxtcs, Cephall'S 

BOOK VI 

I. " So now, Glaucon," I said, " our argument after 

winding" a long * and wear\' way has at last made clear 

to us who are the philosophers or lovers of wisdom 

and who are not." " Yes," he said, " a shorter way 

erhaps not feasible." " Apparently not," I said. 

i, at any rate, think that the matter would have 
been made still plainer if we had had nothing but this 
to speak of, and if there were not so many things left 
which our purpose " of discerning the diiference be- 
tween the just and the unjust life requires us to 
discuss." " What, then," he said, " comes next ? " 
" WTiat else," said I, " but the next in order ? Since 
the philosophers are those who are capable of appre- 
hending that which is eternal and unchanging,** while 
those who are incapable of this, but lose themselves and 

■* For /card Toirrd wra&rui ^Xo^^os cf. Phcudo 78 C, Soph. 
248 A, Tim. 41 d, 82 b, Epin. 982 b and e. 

3 



PLATO 

TToXXoLs /cat TTavToicos la)(ovaL TrXavtvfievoL ov ^lAd- 
ao(j>ot, TToripovs St) Set TroAeo)? riyefjLovas efrat; 
Uios o6v XiyovTes av avro, €<f)r], jxerpicos Xeyoifxev; 
'OTTorepoL av, -^v S' iyw, Svvarol (f)aivcx}VTai 
(f)vXd^aL vofiovs re /cat eTTLnqhevpLara noXecov, 
C Tovrovs Kadtaravai (ftvXaKas. 'Opdws, €(f)r]. ToSe 
oe, i)v o eyco, apa ot^Aov, etre rvcpAov etre ogw 
6pa)vra XPV ^i^Aa/ca rrjpelv otiow; Kat Tro;?, 
ec^ry, ou St^Aoi^; '^H ow hoKOvai rt TV(f)XcL)v 
St,a(f)ep€iv ol rep ovri rod ovros eKaarov iarepr)p,e- 
voi ri]s yvcocrecos, Kat /itrySev ivapyes iv rfj ifjvxfj 
e^ovres 7rapaSety/xa, jLtTjSe Sum/xev'oi wavep ypa(f)€LS 
€15 ro dXrjdeararov aTTO^XcTTOvres KOLKelae del 
dvacf)€povres re /cat decjpi€voL ojs olov re a/cpijSe- 
D arara, ovrco St) /cat to, ivddSe t'd/xt/Lta /caAcDt' re 
Trept /cat SiKaccov /cat aya^cDr rideadal re, edv Sey 
rideadai, /cat ra Keip^eva (f)vXdrrovres uco^eiv; Oi) 
/xa TOi' Ata, 1^ S' o?, oj} TToAu rt Sta^epet. Toutous' 
oi;p /LtaAAov ^uAa/ca? ar-qaop-eda, ^ rovs eyvtoKora? 
p,ev eKaarov ro ov, epTreipia he pi-qhev eKeivojv 
iXXeiTTOvras p-^jS* ev dXXco p,r)Sevl pepei dperrjs 
varepovvras ; "Aronov pevr dv, e(f>r], eir] dXXovs 
alpeladai, e'i ye rdXXa pirj eXXeiTTOivro' rovrcp yap 
485 avrcp axehov ti rto pieyiarcx) dv Trpoexoiev. Ovkovv 
Tovro hi) XeycopLev, rlva rpovov oXoi r eaovrai ol 



» Cf. p. 89, note h, on 505 c. 

* Cf. Luke vi. 39, Matt. xv. 14, John xix. 39-41. 

" (if. Polit. 277 B, 277 d f., etc., Soph. 226 c, Parmen. 
132 D. 

** diro^XiwovTei belongs to the terminology of the ideas. 
Cf. supra 472 c, Cratyl. 389 a, Gorg. 503 e, Tim. 28 a, 
Prot. 354 c, and my What Plato Said, p. 458 on Euthyph. 6 e. 

4 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

wander** amid the multiplicities of multifarious things, 
are not philosophers, which of the two kinds ought to 
be the leaders in a state ? " " What, then," he said, 
" would be a fair statement of the matter ? " " Which- 
ever," I said, " appear competent to guard the laws 
and pursuits of society, these we should establish as 
guardians." " Right," he said. " Is this, then," said 
I, " clear, whether the guardian who is to keep watch 
over anything ought to be blind or keen of sight ? " 
" Of course it is clear," he said. " Do you think, 
then, that there is any appreciable difference between 
the bhnd ^ and those who are veritably deprived of the 
knowledge of the veritable being of things, those who 
have no vi\dd pattern " in their souls and so cannot, 
as painters look to their models, fix their eyes'* on 
the absolute truth, and always \\ith reference to that 
ideal and in the exactest possible contemplation of 
it establish in this world also the laws of the beautiful, 
the just and the good, when that is needful, or guard 
and preserve those that are established?" "No, 
by heaven," he said, " there is not much difference." 
" Shall we, then, appoint these blind souls as our 
guardians, rather than those who have learned to know 
the ideal reality of things and who do not fall short 
of the others in experience* and are not second to 
them in any part of virtue ? " " It would be strange 
indeed," he said, " to choose others than the philo- 
sophers, pro\ided they were not deficient in those 
other respects, for this very knowledge of the ideal 
would perhaps be the greatest of superiorities." 
" Then what we have to say is how it would be pos- 
sible for the same persons to have both qualifications, 

• Cf. infra 539 e, 531 b, Phileb. 62. Cf. Introd. p. xl; 
Apelt, Republic, p. 490. 

5 



PLATO 

avrol KOLKelva /cat ravra ex^iv; lldvv fxev ovv. 
Toivvv apxofievoi rovrov rov Xoyov iXeyofxev, Trjv 
cf)vaLv avTwv Trpcorov Setv Karafiadeiv /cat olfiai, 
eav iKeivrjv LKavcbg oixoXoyqawfiev , ofioXoyqaeiv /cat 
oTt oloi re ravra ^x^lv ol avroi, on re ovk dXXovg 
TToXecov rjyefxovas Set etvat rj rovrovs. IlaJS'; 
II. Tovro jxev brj rojv (l)iXoa6(f)a)v <^vaecov Tre'pt 

B (OfioXoyT^adco rjfjuv, on, fiad-qfiaros ye aet ipcoaiv, 
o av avrois StjXol eKeiv7]s rrjs ovalas ttjs del ovarjs 
/cat /xTj TrXavcofjievrjs vtto yeveaecog /cat (f)dopds. 
\ Q-lxoXoyrjaOio . Kat p-riv, rjv 8' iycv, /cat on ndtjrjs 
avrrjg, /cat ovre apuKpov ovre pieil,ovos ovre rt/xto)- 
repov ovre dnpiorepov [xepovg eKovres dcjilevrai., 
oio-rrep iv rot? Trpoadev rrepi re rwv (f)tXonfjicov /cat 
ipconKoJv Si-^Xdofjiev. ^Op6a>s, ecfjT], Xeyeis. TdSe 
roivvv /xerd rovro a/coTret et dmy/CTj e;^etv Trpos 

C rovrcp ev rfj ^vaei,, ot av [xeXXcoaiv eaeadai olovs 
eXeyofxev. To ttolov; Tr/v diffevheiav /cat to 
eKovras elvat /xi]§a/x7y TrpoaSex^odac ro i/(eu8o?, 
aAAa fiLaelv, rrjv 8' aAi^^etav' crrepyeiv. Et/cos y', 
e(f)r). Ov fjiovov ye, o) ^t'Ae, et/coy, dXXd /cat Trdaa 
dvdyKT] rov epeoriKcos rov (f>vaeL exovra vrdv ro 
^vyyeves re /cat olKelov roJv 77at8t/ca)i' ayaTrai'. 
Opdojs, e^rj. 'H ovv otKeiorepov ao(f>La n dXrj- 
deias dv evpois; Kai ttcos; "^ 8' o?. *H ovv 
Svvarov elvat ttjv avrrjv (f)V(nv <f>LX6ao(f)6v re /cat 

" Lit. " is not made to wander by generation and decay." 
Cf. Crat. 411c, Phaedo 95 e, whence Aristotle took his title. 
See Class. Phil. xvii. (1922) pp. 334-352. 

* Supra 474 c-d. 

" For similar expressions cf. 519 b, Laws 656 is, 965 c, 
Symp. 200 a. 

^ This and many other passages prove Plato's high regard 

6 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

is it not r " " Quite so." " Then, as we were saying 
at the beginning of this discussion, the first thing to 
understand is the nature that they must have from 
birth ; and I think that if we sufficiently agree on this 
we shall also agree that the combination of qualities 
that we seek belongs to the same persons, and that 
we need no others for guardians of states than these." 
" How so ? " 

II. " We must accept as agreed this trait of the 
philosophical nature, that it is ever enamoured of the 
kind of knowledge which reveals to them something of 
that essence which is eternal, and is not wandering 
between the two poles of generation and decay." " 
" Let us take that as agreed." " And, further," said I, 
^' that their desire is for the whole of it and that they 
do not willingly renounce a small or a great, a more 
precious or a less honoured, part of it. That was the 
point of our former illustration * drawn from lovers and 
men covetous of honour." " You are right," he said. 
" Consider, then, next whether the men who are to 
meet our requirements must not have this further 
quality in their natures." " What quality ? " "The 
spirit of truthfulness, reluctance to admit falsehood 
in any form, the hatred of it and the love of truth." 
" It is likely," he said. " It is not only likely, my 
friend, but there is every necessity "^ that he who is by 
nature enamoured of anything should cherish all that 
is akin and pertaining to the object of his love." 
" Right," he said. " Could you find anything more 
akin to wisdom than truth"*?" "Impossible," he 
said. " Then can the same nature be a lover of 

for the truth. Cf. Laves 730 c, 861 d, Crat. 428 d, m^ra 
882 A. In 389 b he only permits falsehood to the rulers as 
a drastic remedy to be used with care for edification. Cf. 
Vol. I. on 382 c and u. 



PLATO 

D <f)tXoi/j€v8rj ; OySa/xcD? ye. Tov apa to) ovti 
^iXo/xadij Trdarjs aXrjdeia? Sei €v6vs €k viov 6 ri 
jLiaAtara opiyeadai. Ilai'TeAcDs' ye. 'AAAa iirjv 
oro) ye elg cv tl at eTndvfxiai acf^oSpa peTTovcnv, 
LOfiev TTOV OTL CIS" TttAAa rovrcp aaOeviarepai, 
wanep pevpia eKeZoe d7Tco)(eTevp,evov. Tt p'qv; 
Q.L St] rrpos TO, pLadrjpara /cat irdv to tolovtov 
ippvrjKaai, irepl ttjv ttjs ifjvxrjs, ot/xat, rj8ovr]v av- 
rrjs Kad avrrjv elev dv, ra? Se 8ia tov acop,aTOS 
eKXeiTTOiev , el purj TreTrXaapLevcos dAA' dXrjdaJs (f)cX6- 
E ao(j)6s Tis e'lrj. VieydXri dvdyKr). Ha)(/)pa>v pirjv 6 
ye ToiovTo? /cat ovSapfj (^lXoxptjp-o.tos' ojv yap 
eveKa xP'^po-T^ /xera TToXXrjs SaTrdvrjs cnrovBd^eTai, 
dXXo) TLvl pidXXov •^ TOVTCp 7TpoarjK€L anovBdl^eiv. 
OvTCxJS- Kat /xiyv TTOV /cat roSe Set aKOTreZv, OTav 
486 Kpcveiv pLeXXrjs d>vaiv ^iX6(JO(f)6v re /cat p^rj. To 
TTolov; Mry ae Xddr) p,eTexovcra dveXevdepias' 
evavTLojTaTov ydp vov apiKpoXoyla ijjvxfj pieXXovarj 
TOV oXov /cat TTavTos del eiTope^eadat deiov re /cat 
dvdpcoTTLVOV. AX7]6€aTaTa, e(f)7). 'Ht ovv virdp- 
Xet Siavola pLeyaXoTTpeneia /cat deoipia TravTos pLeu 
Xpovov, Trda'qg 8e ovaias, olov re otet tovtco p,eya 



" For this figure cf. Laws 844 a and 736 b, Eurip. Suppl. 
1111 irapeKTpeiroi/res oxerdv, Empedocles, Diels^ 195 Xcyyov 
\6yov i^oxeTevoiv i urretius ii. 365 " derivare queunt ani- 
mum " ; and for the idea cf. also Laws 643 c-d. 

* Cf. my Unify of Plato's Thovghf, pp. 45-46, esp. n. 330, 
followed by Apelt, Republic, pp. '490-491. Cf. also Fried- 
lander, Platon, ii. pp. 579-580, 584. 

" For TreirXaa/xivws cf. Soph. 216 c /J.rj TrXaurtDs dW 6vTUi 

^ Cf, Theaet. 144 d xpVf^<^''''^^ iXevOepidrTp-a. 

8 



i 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

Nvisdom and of falsehood ? " " By no means." 
" Then the true lover of knowledge must, from child- 
hood up, be most of all a striver after truth in every 
form." " By all means." " But, again, we surely 
are aware that when in a man the desires incline 
strongly to any one thing, they are weakened for 
other things. It is as if the stream had been diverted 
into another channel." " " Surely." " So, when a 
man's desires have been taught to flow in the channel 
of learning and all that sort of thing, they will be con- 
cerned, I presume, with the pleasures of the soul in 
itself, and will be indifferent to those of which the body 
is the instrument,* if the man is a true and not a sham " 
philosopher." "That is quite necessary." "Suchaman 
yn\\ be temperate and by no means greedy for wealth ; 
for the things for the sake of which money and great 
expenditure are eagerly sought others may take 
seriously, but not he." " It is so." " And there is 
this further point to be considered in distinguishing 
the philosophical from the unphilosophical nature." 
" What point ? " " You must not overlook any 
touch of illiberality.'' For nothing can be more con- 
trary than such pettiness to the quality of a soul that 
is ever to seek integrity and wholeness* in all things 
human and di\ine." " Most true," he said. "Dovou 
think that a mind habituated to thoughts of grandeur 
wid the contemplation of all time and all existence ' 

• Cf. Goethe's " Im Ganzen, Guten, Schonen resolut zu 
leben." 

' C/. Theaet. 174 e, of the philosopher, e« Siiraffav eltiidwi 
tV fTj" iSX^iren', and 173 e, infra 500 b-c. Cf. Marc. Aurel, 
▼IL 35, Livy xxiv. 34 " Archimedes is erat linicus spectator 
eaeli siderumque," Mayor, Cic. De nat. deor. ii. p. 128. 

For iris x/xi""? cf. infra 498 d, 608 c, Phaedo 107 c, Gorg. 
BQ5 c, Apol. 40 E, Tim. 36 e, 47 b, 90 d. Cf. Isoc. i. 11, 
Pindar, Pyth, 1. 46. 

9 



PLATO 

Tt, BoKclv elvai, tov dvOpcomvov ^iov; ^ASvvarov, 
B 7^ 8 OS". OvKOVv Kal ddvarov ov hecvov rt, rjyqcTerai, 
o TOLovTog; "H/ctara ye. Aet,Xi] Srj /cat dveXev- 
oepct) cpvaei (j>iXoao<jiias dX7]dLvrjg, coj eoiKev, OVK 
av ixGreirj. Ov /xot So/cet. Tt ovv; 6 Koa/xios Kal 
fXT] ^LXoxprnxaros p,r]S^ dveXevdepos /(xt^S' dXa^cbv 
fiTjoe SeiXos ead^ otttj dv Svaavpi^oXos t] dSiKos 
yevoLTO ; Ovk cgtiv. Kat rovro Srj il/v)^r]v cxkottcov 
(f>iX6ao(f)OV /cat fj,r] evdvs veov ovros eTnaKeipei, el 
apa hiKaia re /cat rjfjie^ps ^ SvaKotvcovqros Kal 
dypia. Tiai'u jxev ovv. Ov jjltjv ovSe roSe irapa- 
C Xeiifjeis, (xts eyipjxai. To -notov; KvpiaOrjs t] Sva- 
piadrjS' T] TTpoahoKag irore Tcvd rt iKavcos dv 
arep^ai, o vpaTTCov dv dXydJv re Trpdrroi Kal [xoyis 
apLLKpdv dvvTcov; Ovk dv yevotro. Tt 8'; el 
fjLrjSev (Lv jjiddot aoit^eiv hvvaLro, XrjOiqs wv rrXecDS, 
dp dv otos t' etr] eTnarrjjxris pcrj Kevos elvai; Kat 
TTo)?; 'AvovTjTa St] TTOvcbv OVK, oiei, dvayKaad-q- 
arerat, reXevrcbv avrov re fxicretv Kal rrjv roLavTTjv 
D npd^iv; rTaj? 8' ov; ^KTnXii^afxova apa ijjvx^v ev 
rals LKavdJs cf)iXoa6(f)ois pLT] irore eyKpivcofiev, dXXd 
fivrjfioviKTjv avTTjv ^rjTcbixev Selv etvac. nat-TaTT-acri 
fiev ovv. 'AAA' ov p.rjv ro ye rrjs dpiovaov re Kal 
aa-)(rjpiovos ^vaecos dXXoae ttoi dv ^atpLev e'A/cetv t^ 



^ " Cf. Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1123 b 32, the great-souled man, 
<j5 y' oi'Sfv fxiya, Diog. I.aert. vil. 1'2H irdvTiav vTiepduu, Cic. 
De fin. iii. 8 "infra se omnia humana ducens." Cf. infra 
on 500 B-c. 

For similar pessimistic utterances about human life and 
mankind cf. 60i b-c, 496 d-e, 500 b-c, 516 d, Laws 803 b. 
Cf. also Laws 708 e-709 b. 

* Cf. Vol. I. pp. 200 f. on 386 b-c; Laws 727 n, 828 d, 
881 A, Oorg. 522 e, Phaedo 77 e, Crito 43 b, Apol. 35 a, 
10 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

n deem this life of man a thing of great concern" ? " 

Impossible," said he. " Hence such a mian will not 

appose death to be terrible ? * " " Least of all." 

■ Then a cowardly and illiberal spirit, it seems, could 
have no part in genuine philosophy." " I think not." 

\\'hat then ? Could a man of orderly spirit, not a 
lover of money, not illiberal, nor a braggart nor a 
coward, ever prove imjust, or a driver of hard bar- 
lins "^ ? " " Impossible." " This too, then, is a 
int that in your discrimination of the philosophic 
and unphilosophic soul you will observe — whether 
the man is from youth up just and gentle or unsocial 
and savage.** " " Assuredly." " Nor will you over- 
look this, I fancy." " What ? " " Whether he is 
lick or slow to learn. Or do you suppose that anyone 
uld properly love a task which he performed pain- 
I'uUy « and with little result ' from much toil ? " " That 
could not be." " And if he could not keep what he 
learned, being steeped in oblivion,' could he fail to 
be void of knowledge ? " " How could he .' " " And 
Si >, having all his labour for naught, will he not finally 
be constrained to loathe himself and that occupation ? " 

■ Of course." " The forgetful soul, then, we must 
not list in the roll of competent lovers of wisdom, but 
we require a good memor}'." " By all means." 

■ But assuredly we should not say that the want of 
harmony and seemhness in a nature conduces to 
anything else than the want of measure and propor- 

40 c. Cf. Spinoza's " There is nothing of which the free 
man thinks so httle as death." 

' Cf. swpra, \'ol. I. on 442 e. * Cf. 375 b. 

' Cf. Laches 189 a-b a.r]BQ,i fxavOa-vuv. 

' Cf. Tlieaet. 144 b. 

' Cf. Theaet. 144 b \r,dr)i -^ifxoinet. Cf. Cleopatra's " Oh, 
my oblivion is a very Antony " {Ant. and Cleo. i. iii. 90). 

11 



PLATO 

€Ls a^ierpiav. Tt htjv; ^AXrjOcLav 8e afierpia 
rjyeZ ^vyyevrj elvai rj imxerpLa; ^Efxixerpta. "E/x- 
fierpov dpa Kal ev^apiv ^TjrcD/xer 7rp6? rot? dXXots 
oiavoiav (f)va€L, rjv inl ttjv tov ovtos ISeav eKO.- 
E arov TO avTO(f)ves evdyojyov Trape^ec. Ilcog 8' ov; 
Tt ovv; fji-q TTT) SoKovfjiev aoi ovk dvayKola 
e/cacTTa BieXrjXvdevaL Kal iTTO/xeva dXXyjXoLS rfj 
jxeXXovar] tov ovtos iKavdJs re /cat TeXeoJS 0^X77 
487 ix€TaXijil/eadai ; ^ AvayKaiOTaTa jxev odv, €(f)7]. 

ECTTIV ovv OTTTj fieflllj€t TOLOVTOV eTTlTT^SeU^Lia, O fXT] 

TTOT av Tij oios re yevoiTo iKavcbs eTnTiqhevaai, 
ei piiq <f>vaei etrj fiv^fxcov, evpLadrjS, jjLeyaXoTrpeTnrjs , 
evxctpis, cf)t,Xos T€ Kal ^vyyevrjs dXrjdeias, St/cato- 
Gvvqs, dvSpelas, aco(/)poavvr]s ; Oj)S' dv 6 Mcopbos, 
€(1)7], TO ye TOLOVTOV ixefii/jaiTo. 'AAA', ■^v 8' iyd), 
TeXeicoOelai toIs tolovtols 7rai8eta re Kal rjXLKta 
dpa ov fxovoLs dv Trjv ttoXlv irrLTpeTTOis ; 

III. Kat o ASei/xavTos, ^O Sco/c/aares', €(f)r], 

B TTpos fiev TavTa aoi ouSei? dv olos t' etr] dvTenreZv 

dXXd yap Toiovhe tl TTda)(ovat,v ol dKovovTes 



" idiav is not exactly " idea." Cf. Cratyl. 389 b. What 
Plato Said, p. 458 on Euthyph. 6 d, ibid. p. 560 on Rep. 
369 A and p. 585 on Par men. 130 c-d. Cf. Class. Phil. xx. 
(1925) p. 347. 

* Lit. " following one upon the other." Cf. Tim. 27 c 
fTTO/u^i'cos, Laws 844 e. 

" ti€ya\oirpeirr]s is frequently ironical in Plato, but not here. 

For the list of qualities of the ideal student cf. also 503 c, 
Theaet. 144 a-b, and Friedlander, Platon, ii. p. 418. Cf. Laws 
709 E on the qualifications of the young tyrant, and Cic. 
Tusc. V. 24, with Renaissance literature on education. 

** The god of censure, who finds fault with the gods in 
Lucian's dialogues. Cf. Overbeck, Schriftquellen, p. 208, 

12 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

tion." " Certainly." " And do you think that truth 
is akin to measure and proportion or to dispropor- 
tion ? " " To proportion." " Then in addition to 
our other requirements we look for a mind endowed 
with measure and grace, whose native disposition will 
make it easily guided to the aspect of the ideal'' reahty 
in all things." " Assuredly." " Tell me, then, is 
there any flaw in the argument ? Have we not 
proved the qualities enumerated to be necessary and 
compatible ** with one another for the soul that is to 
have a sufficient and perfect apprehension of reahty?" 
" Nay, most necessary," he said. " Is there any 
fault, then, that you can find ^vith a pursuit which a 
man could not properly practise unless he were by 
nature of good memor\^ quick apprehension, magni- 
ficent,'' gracious, friendly and akin to truth, justice, 
bravery and sobriety ? " " Momus <* himself," he said, 
" could not find fault with such a combination." 
'■ Well, then," said I, '" when men of this sort are 
perfected by education and maturity of age, would 
you not entrust the state solely to them ? " 

III. And Adeimantus said, " No one, Socrates, 
would be able to controvert these statements of yours. 
But, all the same, those who occasionally hear you * 

n. 1091, Otto, p. 227, s.v. Momus. C/. Callimachus, fr. 70; 
and Anth. Pal. xvi. 262. 3-4. : 

avTos 6 3Iu)/ios 
(pdfy^erai, 'Aicpr/ros, Zev xrdrep, i) a-o<plv, 
" Momus himself will cry out ' Father Zeus, this was perfect 
skill.' " (L.C.L. translation.) Stallbaum refers to Erasmus, 
Chiliad, i. 5. 75 and interpreters on Aristaenet. Epist. i. 1, 
p. 239, ed. BoLssonade. 

• Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 35, n. 236, and What 
Plato Said, p. 468 on Crito 46 b. A speaker in Plato may 
thus refer to any fundamental Platonic doctrine. Wilamo- 
witz' suggested emendation (Platon, iL p. 205) 4 &i> hiyrjs is 
due to a misunderstanding of this. 

13 



PLATO 

eKaaTOTG a vvv Aeyeis" rj-yovvTai hi aireLpiav rod 
ipcordv /cat OLTTOKpiveadai vvo rod Xoyov Trap' 
eKaarov ro ipcorrjfia apuKpov Trapayofxevoi, ddpoi- 
adevTCOV rihv ajXLKpoJv eirl TeXevrrjs tcDv Xoycov 
fieya ro acfxiXfia /cat evavriov rots Trpcorois ava^ai- 
veadai, koL worrep vtto ra>v Trerreveiv heivcov ol 
liT] reXevrwvres aTro/cActovrat /cat ovk cxovglv 6 
C Tt (f>€pajaLV, ovro) /cat a^els reXevroyvres aTro/cAet- 
eadat, /cat ovk ^x^tv 6 ri XeywoLV vtto Trerreias av 
ravrrjs rivos irepas, ovk iv ifjT^(f)0Lg dXX' iv Xoyoig- 
eTTCt ro ye dXr]6€S ovSev Tt [jidXXov ravrj) e)(et,v. 
Xeyco 8' et? to Trapov dTTo^XciJjas . vvv yap ^atTy 
dv Tt? crot Xoyo) p,ev ovk ^x^i-v Kad eKaarov ro 
ipa>r(jL)[X€vov evavriovoQai, epycp 8e opdv, oaoi dv 



' A locus classiciis for Plato's anticipation of objections. 
Cf. 475 B, Theaet. 166 a-h, Rfip. (;09 c, 438-439, and Apelt, 
liepuhlic, p. 492. Plato does it more tactfully than Isocrates, 
e.g. Demon. 44. 

* Cf. Apelt, Aufsatze, p. 73, Minto, Logic, Induction and 
Deduction, pp. 4 ff. ; also Gorg. 461 d, 462 a. Soph. 230 b. 

« Cf. Phaedrus 262 it. 

<* Cf. supra 451 a, and Theaet. 166 a, 168 a, infra 534 c 

aiTTQlTl. 

• Cf. Phaedr. 262 b, Cleitophon 410 a, Gorg. 495 a, schol., 
TOi''j irpiliTovs X670US Tovs eavTov dri\oi'6Ti, Gorg. 457 E ols t6 
irpCiTov ?Xe76s, and also Agathon in Symp. 201 b. 

' For this figure cf. Laws 739 a, 820 c-n, 903 d, Eryxias 
395 A-B, Hipparchus 229 e, Eurip. Suppl. 409. 

Aristotle, iSopA. i?/. 165 a 10 ff., borrows the metaphor, but 
his i/'7}</>oi are those of book-keeping or reckoning. Cf. also 
Dem. De cor. 227 f. 

» Cf. Hipp. Minor 369 b-c and Grote ii. p. 64 " Though 
Hippias admits each successive step he still mistrusts the 
conclusion " ; also Apelt, p. 492, supra 357 a-b and Laws 
903 A ^td^ecrdai rols \6yois, and also Hipparchus 232 b for 

14 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

argue thus feel in this way " : They think that owing 
to their inexperience in the game of question and 
answer * they are at every question led astray '^ a little 
bit by the argument, and when these bits are accumu- 
lated at the conclusion of the discussion mighty is their 
fall"* and the apparent contradiction of what they at 
first said* ; and that just as by expert draught-players^ 
the unskilled are finally shut in and cannot make a 
move, so they are finally blocked and have their 
mouths stopped by this other game of draughts 
played not with counters but \yiih words ; yet the 
truth is not affected by that outcome.'' I say this 
with reference to the present case, for in this instance 
on^ might say that he is unable in words to contend 
against you at each question, but that when it comes 
to facts * he sees that of those who turn to philosophy,* 

the idea that dialectic constrains rather than persuades. In 
the Ion, 533 c, Ion says he cannot dvTcXeyeiv, but the fact 
remains that he knows Homer but not other poets. Cf. also 
536 D. The passage virtually anticipates Bacon's Novum 
Organum, App. XIII. " (syllogismus) . . . assensum itaque 
constringit, non res." Cf. Cic. De fin. iv. 3, Tuac. i. 8. 16, 
and the proverbial ov yap iretVets, oiib' f^v Treiff-gs, Aristoph. 
Plutus 600, 

* See Soph. 234 z for a different application of the same 
idea. There is no change of opinion. The commonplace 
Greek contrast of word and deed, theory and fact, is valid 
against eristic but not against dialectic. See What Plato 
Said, p. 534 on Phaedo 99 e, and supra on 473 a ; also What 
Plato Said, p. 625 on Laws 636 a. 

A favourite formula of Aristotle runs, "This is true in 
theory and is confirmed by facts." Cf. Eth. Nic. 1099 b 25, 
1123 b 22, 1131 a 13, Pol. 1323 a 39-b 6, 1326 a 25 and 29, 
1334 a 5-6. 

* Scholars in politics cut a sorry figure. For this popular 
view of philosophers cf. Theaet. 173 c ff., 174 c-d, Gorg. 484- 
486 c, Phaedo 64 b. Cf. also Isoc. passim, e.g. Ant id. 250, 
312. 

13 



PLATO 

€7tI (l)i\oao^lav opfji-^aavres /ii7 rov TTeTTaiSevcrOai 
D €V€Ka ailidfjievoi vioi ovres diraXXdrTcovrai , dAAa 
jxaKporepov ivSiaTpiifjcoaL, rovs fxev TrAeiarou? /cat 
TTavv aXXoKOTovs yiyvofxevovs, tva p-rj TrapTTOvq- 
povs eLTTOjpiev, tovs S' iTneLKcardrovs hoKovvTas 
op,a)s TOVTo ye vtto rod iTnTTjBevp^aros ov av 
eTTaivels Trdcrxovras, dxpT^crrovs rat? voXeai yiyvo- 
p.4vovs. KOL eycb aKovaas, Otet ovv, cittov, tovs 
Tavra Xeyovras ijjevheadai; Ovk olha, rj 8' 6s, 
E dAAa TO crol Sokovv rjSecos dv aKovoipn. 'Akouoi? 
dvy ort, €p.oiy€ ^aivovrai TdXrjOrj Xeyeiv. na;? ovu, 
€<l>rj, ev ex^i- Xiyetv, on ov nporepov KaKcbv Trau- 
aovrai at TToXeis, rrplv dv iv avrals ol (jiiXoao^ot 
dp^ojaiVy ovs dxprjOTovs 6p.oXoyovp,€v avrats elvai; 
EpcoTtt?, '^v S' iyo), ipwTTTjpa Seof-ievov diroKpi- 
aeoj? St' eLKOvos Xeyop,€vr)s . 2u 8e ye, €(f)rj, ot/xat, 
OVK eXcodas St' eiKovcov Xeyeiv. 

IV. Etev, ecTTOv aKcorrreLs ip^^e^XrjKws pe els 
Xoyov ovro) SvaaTToBeLKTOv ; aKove S' ovv ttjs 
488 eiKovos, Iv krc pidXXov tSrjg, cbs yXiaxp(os elKdt,o). 
ovTU) yap x^^Xenov to Trddos rcov inieiKeaTdrcov, o 
irpos rd? TrdAetj TTCTrovdaaiv , oiore ovV eariv iv 
ovSev dXXo roLovrov Treirovdos , dXXd Set enr ttoX- 
Xd)v avTO ^vvayayelv et/cd^ov'Ta /cat dTToXoyov- 

" The perfect tense is ironical in Crat. 384 b, serious in 
Laws 670 a-b. In Gorg. 485 a it is replaced by Sffov Traiddas 

» Cf. What Plato Said, p. 506 on Gorg. 484 c. 

' Cf. Euthydem. 306 e, Protag. 346 a, and for the idea 
without the word. Soph. 216 c. 

<* Cf. Eurip. Medea 299, and on 489 b. 

• Cf. supra 487 a. In Euthydem. 307 b Plato uses both 
iviT'qdevfxa and irpdyna. 

16 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

! "t merely touching upon it to complete their educa- 
tion " and dropping it while still young, but lingering 
> long** in the study of it, the majority become 
iiks,"^ not to say rascals, and those accounted the 
tiiiest spirits among them are still rendered useless'' to 
society by the pursuit * which you commend." And I, 
on hearing this, said, " Do you think that they are 
mistaken in saying so ? " "I don't know," said 
he, " but I would gladly hear your opinion." " You 
may hear, then, that I think that what they say is 
true." " How, then," he replied, " can it be right 
to say that our cities will never be freed from their 
evils until the philosophers, whom we admit to be 
useless to them, become their rulers ? " " Your 
question," I said. " requires an answer expressed in 
a comparison or parable.-^ " " And you," he said, "of 
course, are not accustomed to speak in comparisons ! " 
I\ . " So," said I, " you are making fun of me after 
driving me into such an impasse of argument. But, 
all the same, hear my comparison so that you may 
still better see how I strain after ^ imagery. For so 
cruel is the condition of the better sort in relation to 
the state that there is no single thing'' hke it in nature. 
Ihit to find a likeness for it and a defence for them 
one must bring together many things in such a com- 

^ Cf. Gorff. 517 D, Laws 644 c, Symp. 215 a with Bury's 
note. Cf. the parable of the great beast in/ra 493, and of 
the many-headed beast, 588-589. 

" The word yXicrxfx^s is untranslatable, and often mis- 
understood. In 553 c it means " stingily " ; in Cratyl. 414 c 
it is used of a strained etymology, and so in 435 c, usually 
Illi^understood ; in Crito 53 e of clinging to life ; cf. Phaedo 
117 a; in Plutarch, De Is. et Osir. 2% of a strained allegory 
and ibid. 75 of a strained resemblance; in Aristoph. Peace 
48:2 of a dog. » Cf. Laws 747 b, 

VOL. II C 17 



PLATO 

lji€vov VTT€p avTCov, olov OL ypa^et? rpayeXd^ov? 
Kai ra roiavTa jJnyvvvTes ■ypd(f)ov(n. vorjaov yap 
TOiovTovl yevofxevov etre ttoXXojv vecov Tripi etre 
puds' vavKXrjpov p,eye9€c pi€v /cat po^p-J} VTrep rovs 

B iv rfj vr]t Trdvras, vtt6kix}(J>ov 8e /cat opcovra cba- 
avTios Ppaxv rt Kat yiyvcuaKovra Trepl vavrtKiLv 
erepa roiavra, tovs 8e raura? CTTaata^ovTa? irpos 
aXX-qXov£ Trepl rrjs Kv^epvT^aecos, eKaarov ol6p,evov 
h€lv KV^epvdv, p.rjTe piadovra TTOJTTOTe ttjv re'^v^jv 
P^tJtc exovra dnoSeL^at, SiSdaKaXov iavrov pur^Se 
Xpovov iv <L ep-dvdave, irpos 8e tovtois (f)daKOVTas 
/LtrjSe SiSaKTOV etvai, dXXd /cat rov Xeyovra (os 

C StSa/CTOv eroipiovs Kararipveiv, avTOVS Se avrco 
dei TO) vavKXrjpo) TrepiKexvcrdai 8eopievovs /cat 



" Cf. Horace, Ars Poetica, init. ; Wliat Plato Said, p. 550 
on Phaedr. 229 d-e, and infra 588 c f. The expression is 
still used, or revived, in Modern Greek newspapers. 

^ The syntax of this famous allegory is anacoluthic and 
perhaps uncertain : but there need be no doubt about the 
meaning, Cf. my article in the Classical Review, xx. (1906) 
p. 247. 

Huxley commends the allegory, Methods and Results, 
p. 313. Cf. also Carlyle's famous metaphor of the ship 
doubling Cape Horn by ballot. Cf. Class. Phil. ix. (1914) 
p. 362. 

' The Athenian demos, as portrayed e.ff. in Aristophanes' 
Knights 40 ff. and passim. Cf. Aristot. Rhet. 1406 b 35 Kal 
ri eis Tov Syuov, on 6/xoios vavK\ripLiJ icrx^'pi? Mf'' viroKih(pifi d4, 
Polyb. vi. 44 del yap wore tov tOiv 'A07]vaiwv Sfj/xov irapair^riaiov 
dvai Toh ddeawSTois aKacpeat, etc. Cf. the old sailor in Joseph 
Conrad's Chance, ch. i. " No ship navigated ... in the 
happv-go-lucky manner . . . would ever arrive into port." 

For the figure of the ship of state cf. Polit. 302 a ff.. 
299 B, Euthydem. 291 d, Aesch. Seven against Thebes 2-3, 
Theognis 670-685, Horace, Odes i. 15 with my note, Urwick, 

18 



11 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

bination as painters mix when they portray goat- 
stags " and similar creatures. " Conceive this sort of 
thing happening either on many ships or on one : 
Picture a shipmaster '^ in height and strength surpass- 
ing all others on the ship, but who is slightly deaf 
and of similarly impaired \'ision, and whose know- 
ledge of navigation is on a par A^th * his sight and 
hearing. Conceive the sailors to be wrangling \\-ith 
one another for control of the helm, each claiming 
that it is his riffht to steer though he has never learned 
the art and cannot point out his teacher ' or any time 
when he studied it. And what is more, they affirm 
that it cannot be taught at all,' but they are ready to 
make mincemeat of anyone '' who says that it can be 
taught, and meanwhile they are always clustered 
about * the shipmaster importuning him and sticking 

The Message of Plato, pp. 110-111, Ruskin, Time and 
Tide, xiii: "That the governing authority should be in the 
hands of a true and trained pilot is as clear and as constant. 
In none of these conditions is there any difference between 
a nation and a boat's company." Cf. Longfellow's The 
Building of the Ship, in fine. Cf. Laics 7.58 a, 945 c. 

For the criticism of democracy by a figure cf. also Polit. 
297 Eff. 

" Cf. Aristoph. Knights 42-44. 

• Cf. 390 c, 426 D, 498 b, Theaetet. 167 b, and Milton's 
"unknown and like esteemed," Comus 630. 

. ' For this and similar checks on pretenders to knowledge 
ef. Laches 185 e, 186 a and c. Ale. L 109 d and Gorg. 514 b-c. 

• Plato of course believed that virtue or tiie political art 
can be taught in a reformed state, but practically was not 
taught at Athens. Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 14, 
infra on 518 d. What Plato Said, pp. 70 and 511, Newman, 
Introd. Aristot. Pol. p. 397, Thompson on Me no 70 a. 

• A hint of the fate of Socrates. Cf. infra 517 a, 494 f^ 
and Euthyphro 3 e. 

' The participle TrepiK^x^aevov^ occurs in Polit. 268 c, but 
is avoided here by anacoluthon. 

19 



PLATO 

TTavra TTOtovvras, ottojs av acfiiai ro TTrjSdXtov 
iTTiTpdipr], €VLOT€ S' oiv ixT] Treidioaiv dAAa aXXoi 
fxaXXov, Tovg fiev dXXovs 7) drroKT€LVVvrag rj eK- 
^dXXovrag e/c rrjs veojs, rov 8e yevvaZov vavKXrjpov 
fxavSpayopa rj fxedrj rj nvi dXXcv ^VjjLTToSiaavras 
rrjs V€U)s apx^Lv xP<^P-^^o^S rols ivovat, /cat ttivov- 
rds T€ Kal €va>xoviji€vovs TrXelv (Ls to cIkos tovs 

TOIOVTOVS, TTpOS Se TOVTOLS €7TaiVOVVTas VaVTLKOV 

D />tev KoXovvTas Kal KV^epvrjrtKov /cat e7nard[i€vov 
Ta Kara vavv, o? dv ^vXXafx^dveiv Setvos fj, ottcos 
dp^ovcriv rj TreiQovTcs ?) ^la^opievoi rov vavKXripov, 
rov Se pLT] roLovrov ifjeyovras d)S dxpyjcrrov, rov 8e 
dXr]6ivov KV^epvrjrov rrepi pL-qh^ irraLovras,^ on 
avayKTj avra> tt]v iTTipueXeiav TTOteiadai, iviavrov 

* fTraioi'ras q, fTraio^'Tes AFDM. 

" For the idiom TrdvTa irouw cf. Etithyph. 8 c, infra 504 d-e, 
571 c, 575 E, 494 e, Gorg. 479 c, Phaedr. 252 e, Apol. 39 a, 
and, slightly varied, Eurip. Heracleidae 841. 

* The word eK^dWoura^ helps the obvious allegory, for it 
also means banish. 

" Here figurative. Cf. Gorg. 482 e, Theaet. 165 e. Infra 
615 E it is used literally. 

** Cf. Pol it. 297 E. The expression is slightly ironical. 
Such is frequently the tone of 7fi'i'a?os in Plato. Cf. Rep. 
454 A, 363 A, 544 c, 348 c, Hipp. Min. 370 d. Soph. 231 b, 
Hipp. Maj. 290 e, PoUt. 274 e. 

* Cf. Polit. 302 A, Laws 906 e, Jebb on Soph. Antig. 
1 89-190. 

' Cf. 407 D with Thucyd. iv. 26, vi. 69, vii. 25. 

' Cf. 427 e, Laws 905 c, Eryx. 396 e, Aristoph. Knights 229. 

* Neither here nor in d-e can ottws with the future mean 
"in what way," and all interpretations based on that 
assumption are plainly wrong. The expression in both cases 
refers to getting control. Cf. 338 e, Laicn 757 d, 714 c, 
962 D-E, Xen. Rep. Lac. 14. 5. Cf. Class. Phil. ix. (1914) 
pp. 358 and 362. 

* For Tov di fir] ToiovTov cf. Ale. II. 145 c. 

20 



ii 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

at nothing" to induce him to turnover the hehn to 
ihem. And sometimes, if they fail and others get 
iiis ear, they put the others to death or cast them out * 
from the ship, and then, after binding " and stupefying 
the worthy shipmaster "^ with raandragora or intoxica- 
tion or otherwise, they take command of the ship, 
consume its stores and, drinking and feasting, make 
such a voyage * of it as is to be expected^ from such, 
and as if that were not enough, they praise and cele- 
brate as a navigator, a pilot, a master of shipcraft, 
the man who is most cunning to lend a hand ^ in per- 
suading or constraining the shipmaster to let them 
rule,'' while the man who lacks this craft' they censure 
as useless. They have no suspicion^ that the true 
pilot must give his attention * to the time of the year, 

' The ppl. must refer to the sailors; hence the ace. (see 
crit. note). 

Whatever the text and the amount of probable anacoluthon 

in this sentence, the meaning is that the unruly sailors (the 

mob) have no true conception of the state of mind of the 

real pilot (the philosophic statesman), and that it is he 

i;iilopting Sidgwick's ot'o/ue^'y for the ms. oionevoi in e) who 

-. not believe that the trick of getting possession of the 

I in is an art, or that, if it were, he could afford time to 

practise it. Those who read oi6,u€voi attribute the idea of the 

incompatibility of the two things to the sailors. But that 

overlooks the points I have already made about oirws, and 

rfxvr) and is in any case improbable, because the sentence as 

- whole is concerned with the attitude of the true pilot 

itesman), which may be represented by the words of Burke 

iiis constituents, " I could hardly serve you as I have done 

and court you too." 

Cf. Sidgwick, "On a Passage in Plato's Republic,''* 
' irnal of Philology, v. pp. 274-276, and my notes in A.J.P. 
. p. 361 and xvi. p. 234. 

For the force of the article cf. Thucvd. ii. 65 to iirl(pdoi'O0 
iv^vfi, and my article in T.A.P.A. 1893, p. 81, n. 6. Cf. 
o Charm. 156 e and Rep. 496 e. 

21 



PLATO 

/cat (hpoJv Kai ovpavov Kal darpajv Kal Tn'ev/JidTwv 
/cat Trdvrojv rcbv tjj t^xvtj TrpoarjKOVTCov, el yae'AAet 
TO) ovTi V€(xjs apxtKos eaeadai, ottcos 8e Kv^€pvT]a€t 

E eav T€ rives ^ovXoivrai idv re pL-q, p.rjre rexvrjv rov- 
rov pi-qre pLeXerrjv olop.eva}^ Svvarov elvai Xa^eZv 
a/ta /cat rrjv KV^epvrjrLKTJv. roLovrojv 87) vepl rds 
vavs yiyvopieviov rov cos dXrjdcos Kv^epvrjriKov ov^ 
7)yel dv ru) ovrL fierecopoaKOTTOv re Kal dBoXeaxrjv 
489 /cat dxpr](Tr6v a(f>Lai KaXeladat vtto rcov ev rats 
ovro} KareaKeva(jp,€vats vaval TrXiori^pcov ; Kai 
pidXa, e^Tj 6 'ASei/xavTo?. Ov Sry, riv 8' eytL, olp,at 
heladai ae i^eral,op,evriv rrjv eiKova Ihelv, on rals 
TToXeai TTpos rovs dXrjdLvovs (f>iXoa6(f)Ovs rrjv 8ia- 
decTLv eoLKev, dXXd fiavddveiv o Xeya>. Kat pidXa, 
e(f>r). Upcorov pLev roivvv eKeZvov rov 9avp,dl^ovra, 
on OL (f)iX6ao(f)OL ov npicovrai, ev rats TToXeai, 
SiSaCT/ce re rrjv eiKova /cat Treipco neideiv, on ttoXv 

B dv 6avp,aar6repov -^v, el inpicovro. 'AAAd StSa^oj, 
^ oioixivip Sidgwick : oiofievoi mss. 

" 'Jttws . . . Kv^€pvrj(T€i. Cf. p. 20, note h. 

'' The translation gives the right meaning. Cf. infra 
518 D, and the examples collected in my emendation of 
Gorgias 503 u in Class. Phil. x. (1 9 1 5) 325-326. The contrast 
between subjects which do and those which do not admit of 
constitution as an art and science is ever present to Plato's 
mind, as appears from the Sophist, Politicus, Gorgias, and 
Phaedrus And he would normally express the idea by a 
genitive with t^x^V' Cf. Protag. 357 a, Phaedrus 260 e, 
22 



11 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

the seasons, the sky, the winds, the stars, and all 
that pertains to his art if he is to be a true ruler of a 
ship, and that he does not believe that there is any 
art or science of seizing the helm " with or without the 
consent of others, or any possibihty of mastering this 
alleged art '' and the practice of it at the same time 
with the science of navigation. With such goings-on 
aboard ship do you not think that the real pilot 
would in very deed "^ be called a star-gazer, an idle 
babbler, a useless fellow, by the sailors in ships 
managed after this fashion ? " " Quite so," said 
Adeimantus. " You take my meaning, I presume, 
and do not require us to put the comparison to the 
proof'* and show that the condition* we have described 
is the exact counterpart of the relation of the state 
to the true philosophers." " It is indeed," he said. 
" To begin with, then, teach this parable f to the man 
\\ ho is surprised that philosophers are not honoured 
in our cities, and try to convince him that it would 
be far more surprising if they were honoured." " I 

aho Class. Rev. xx. (1906) p. 247. See too Cic. De or. i. 4 
" neque aliquod praeceptum artis esse arbitrarentur," and 
i'ffra 518 D. 

T($ 6vTi. verifies the allusion to the charge that Socrates 
- a babbler and a star-gazer or weather-prophet. Cf. 
.■>oph. 225 D, Polit. 299 b, and What Plato Said, p. 527 on 
Phcedo 70 c; Blaydes on Aristoph. Clouds 1480. 

■^ Plato like some modern writers is conscious of his own 
imagery and frequently interprets hLs own symbols. Cf. 
517 A-B, 531 B, 588 b, Garg. 493 d, 517 d. Phaedo 87 b. 
Laws Q4A> c, Meno 72 a-b, Tim. 19 b, Polit. 297 e. Cf. 
also the cases where he says he cannot tell what it is but 
onlv what it is like, e.g. Rep. 506 e, Phaedr. 246 a, Symp. 
^215 a 5. 

' oidd€(Tii and f^ts are not discriminated by Plato as by 
Aristotle. 

' Cf. 476 D-E. 

23 



PLATO 

6(^17. Kat oTi Toivvv TaXrjdfj Xeyei, <I)S d)(pr]crTOi 
rots' TT-oAAot? OL €7TL€iK€aTaTOL TcSv iv ^iXoao(f)ia' 
TTJs fxivroi axpriarias tovs jxr) ;^;/3co/xeVous' KeXeve 
aLTidaOaL, aAAa /xt] toi)? eTneiKels. ov yap ^x^t- 
<f>vaLv KV^€pvr)Tr]v vavratv SeXadai apx^adat v^* 
avTov, ovSe rovg aocjiovs cttI ras tcov TrXovaiojv 
dvpas tevai, dAA' o rovro KOfjufjevadfievos ii/jevaaro , 
TO Se aXrjOeg 7Te(f)VK€V, idv re ttXovglos edv re 
TT€V7]s Kdfivrj, dvayKOLOv etvai ctti larpcbv dvpas 
C levai /cat Trdvra rov dpx^odai Seofievov inl rds tou 
apx^LV 8vvap,€vov, ov rov dpxovra Seladai rdyv dpxo- 
fievcov dpx^adai, ov dv rfj dXrjdeia n o^eAo? fj. 
aXXd TOVS vvv TToXiTiKovs dpxovras dneiKd^ajv ols 
dpri iXiyofxev vavrais ovx dixapTrjoei, /cat tovs vtto 
rovTcov dxp'TTicTTOvs Xeyo/xdvovs /cat fieTcajpoXeaxcis 



" This passage illustrates one of the most interesting 
cliaracteristics of Plato's style, namely the representation of 
thought as adventure or action. This procedure is, or was, 
familiar to modern readers in Matthew Arnold's account in 
God and the Bible of his quest for the meaning of God, which 
in turn is imitated in Mr. Updegraff's New Word. It lends 
vivacity and interest to Pascal's Provinciales and many 
other examples of it can be found in modern literature. The 
classical instance of it in Plato is Socrates' narrative in the 
Phaedo of his search for a satisfactory explanation of natural 
phenomena, 96 a ff. In the Sophist the argument is repre- 
sented as an effort to track and capture the sophist. And 
the figure of the himt is common in the dialogues {cf. svpra 
Vol. I. p. 365). Cf. also Pep. 455 a-b, 474 b, 588 c-d, 
612 c, Euthijd. 291 a-b, 293 a, Phileh. 24 a fT., 43 a, 44 n, 
45 A, Lnws 892 d-e, Theaet. 169 d, 180 e, 196 d, Polit. 
265 B, etc. 

^ Cf. 487 D. Cf. Arnold, Culture and Anarchy, p. 3 

24 



il 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

will teach him," ° he said. " And say to him further: 
You are right in affirming that the finest spirits 
among the philosophers are of no service to the multi- 
t ude. But bid him blame for this uselessness,*" not the 
finer spirits, but those who do not know how to make 
u'^e of them. For it is not the natural " course of 
things that the pilot should beg the sailors to be 
ruled by him or that wise men should go to the 
ors of the rich.** The author of that epigram * was a 
r. But the true nature of things is that whether 
i e sick man be rich or poor he must needs go to the 
lor of the physician, and everyone who needs to be i 
iverned' to the door of the man who knows how to I 
'vern, not that the ruler should implore his natural 
bjects to let themselves be ruled, if he is really good 
1 1 ir anything." But you will make no mistake in liken- 
ing our present pohtical rulers to the sort of sailors we 
^^ ere just describing, and those whom these call useless 

" I am not sure that I do not think this the fault of our com- 
iiuinitj- rather than of the men of culture." 

•■ For the idiom (pua-iv ^x" c/. 473 a, Herod, ii. 45, Dem. 
. 26. Similarly ?x«' Xovo;-, Rep. 378 e, 491 d, 564 a, 610 a, 

aedo 62 b and d, Gorg. 501 a, etc. 

•^ This saying was attributed to Simonides. Cf. schol. 
Hfrmann, Plato, vol. vi. p. 346, Joel, Der echte und der 

nophontische Sokrates, ii.^ p. 81, Aristot. Ehet. 1391 a 8. 

'. Phaedr. 245 a iirl iroiyjTLKai dvpas, Thompson on Phaedr. 

■3 E, supra 364 b iirl TrXovcriwv dvpas. Laws 953 d eTri toi 

:• w\ovaiuiv Kai crocpQv dupas, and for the idea cf. also infra 

■^ a and Theaet. 170 a, Tiinon of Athens iv. iii. 17 "The 

rned pate ducks to the golden fool." 

' For Plato's attitude toward the epigrams of the Pre- 

'cratics cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, pp. 68-69. 
Cf. Theaet. 170 b and infra 590 c-d. 

^ For the idiom with 6(j>e\o^ cf. 530 c, 567 e, Euthyphro 

K, Apol. 36 c, Crito 46 a, Euthydem. 289 a. Soph. O.C. 
39, where it is varied. 

25 



PLATO 

TOLS COS dXrjdaJs KV^epv-qraig. 'Opdorara, €(f)r]. 
Ek re Tolvvv tovtcov koL iv tovtols ov pahiov 
€v8oKtfi€iv TO ^iXriaTov eTnrrjhevpa vtto tcov 
D Tavavria cti ir-qSevoJ^TCov , noXv Se jxeyiaTTq Kal 
i(j-)(yporarri Sia^oXrj yiyveraL (fiiXocto^ia 8ta rovs 
TO. Totavra cfxiaKovras eTTirr^Seyetv, ovs Brj ov (f>f]s 
Tov eyKaXovvra rfj (f)iXoao(j)La Xeyetv d)s TrapTTOviqpot, 
oi TrXeiaroL raJv I6vra>v ctt' avrr^v, ol he ctti- 
eiKeoTaroi a\/3TycrT0t, /cat iyoj auvexcoprjaa dXr]9r] 
ere Xiyeiv. rj yo.p; Nat. 

V. OvKOVV TTJS fXeV TU)V €7n€LKCOV dxprjCTTLaS TTjU 

aiTtaf hieXriXvdapev ; Kai pdXa. Tijg Se rcov 
TToXXoJv TTovrjpias rrjv dvdyKTjv ^ovXet, to /xera 
TOUTO BieXdcopev, Kal otl ovSe tovtov (f)iXoao(f>ia 
E atVta, ai' Svvcop^eOa, Treipadcopev Seifat; Ilavu 
fiev ovv. ^AKovcopcv Brj Kal Xeycopev cKeidev 
dva/xmrjcrdevTes , odev Sifjp,€v ttjv cf)vatv, olov avay- 
490 Krj (f)vvai TOV KaXov re KdyaOov iaopevov. Tyyetro 
S* ayro), el vw exits', Trpwrov pev dX-qdeia, 7]v 
StcoKeiv avTov TrdvTOJS Kal TravTrj eSet ■^ dXai^ovi 
ovTi pr)8apfj peTetvat, (f)i,Xoao(f)ias dX7]di.vrjS' Hv 
yap ovT(o Xeyopevov. Ovkovv ev pev tovto 
(T(f)6Spa ovTco vapd 86^av tois vvv boKOvpevocg 
trepl avTOv; Kat pdXa, e(f>y]. 'Ap' ovv 87] ov 
peTplcos dTToXoyrjaopeda, otl Trpos to ov TrecpvKOJS 



" Cf. Theaet. 173 c, why speak of unworthy philosophers? 
and infra 495 c ff. 

* Possibly " wooers." Cf. 347 c, 521 b. Plato frequently 
employs the language of physical love in speaking of 
philosophy. Cf infra 495-496, 490 li, Theaet. 148 e ff., 
Phaedo 66 e, 3feno 70 b, Phaedr. 266 11, etc. 

« Cf. Theaet. 169 t>. 

26 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

and star-gazing ideologists to the true pilots." 
'■ Just so," he said. " Hence, and under these con- 
ditions, we cannot expect that the noblest pursuit 
should be highly esteemed by those whose way of 
lite is quite the contrary. But far the greatest and 
chief disparagement of philosophy is brought upon 
it by the pretenders " to that way of life, those whom 
vou had in mind when you affirmed that the accuser 
of philosophy says that the majority of her followers * 
are rascals and the better sort useless, while I ad- 
mitted "^ that what you said was true. Is not that so ? " 
" Yes." 

V. " Have we not, then, explained the cause of 
the uselessness of the better sort ? " " We have." 
" Shall we next set forth the inevitableness of the 
degeneracy of the majority, and try to show if we 
can that philosophy is not to be blamed for this 
either ? " " By all means." " Let us begin, then, 
what we have to say and hear by recalling the start- 
ing-point of our description of the nature which he 
who is to be a scholar and gentleman ^ must have from 
Ijirth. The leader of the choir for him, if you recol- 
lect, was truth. That he was to seek always and 
altogether, on pain of ' being an impostor without part 
|>r lot in true philosophy." " Yes, that was said." 

Is not this one point quite contrary to the prevaihng 
' ■f»inion about him ? " " It is indeed," he said. " Will 
it not be a fair plea in his defence to say that it was 
the nature of the real lover of knowledge to strive 

'^ The quality of the (ia\6s KuyaOot gave rise to the abstrac- 
tion KaXoKOiyadia used for the moral ideal in the Eudemian 
Kthics. C/. Isoc. Demon. 6, 13, and 51,. Stewart on Eth. 
V'>. 1124 a 4 (p. 339) and 1179 b 10 (p. 460). 

' For t5 = " or else " cf. Prot. 333 a and c, Phaedr. 237 c, 
Jo'J A, 245 D, Gorg. 494'a, Crat. 426 b, etc. 

27 



PLATO 

eiTy dfiiXXdadai o ye ovtcos (f>LXoixa6-qs , koi ovk 
B €7TLfxevoL em toXs So^a^ofxevois elvai ttoXXoIs e/ca- 
CTTOt?, dAA toi /cat OVK OLfx^XuvoiTO ovh^ a.TToX'nyoi 
rod epojTOSt Trplv avrov o eariv eKaarov rrjs 
(fivaecxis difjaadai o) rrpoa-qKei ^vx^^ ecfxtTrrecrdai 
Tov TOiovTOV TTpoGTjKei Sc ^vyyevel' S TrXnTjaiaaas 
Koi pay els Tip ovri ovtcos, yevv^aag vovu /cat aA?^- 
Qeiav, yvoLT] re /cat dXrjdcos (.cot] /cat Tpe<f}oiro /cat 
ovTco XrjyoL (Lhlvos, Trplv S' ov. 'Q.s olov t', 6(^77, 
pLerpiojrara. Tt ovv; tovtco ri pLerearai i/jev8os 
C dyaTTCLV ■^ Trdv rouvavriov pnaelv; Mxaelv, e<f)'r]. 
' HyovfxevTjs 8')7 dX-qdeias ovk dv -noTe, 6lp,ai, 
(f>alp,€V avTjj "xopov KaKcov aKoXovdrjaai. 11 a)? 
yap; 'AAA' vyies re /cat SiKaiov rjOos, a) /cat 
aco(l>poavvr]v erreadai. ^OpOcos, ^ff>'^1' Kat hrj tov 
dXXov TTjS (f)iXoa6(f)ov (f)vaea}s x^P^^ "^^ ^^^ TraAti' 
€^ dpx^js dvayKdl,ovTa raTTetv; piep.vrjaaL yap 
TTOV, OTL ^vve^Tj TTpoarJKOv TOVTOis dvhpela, fxeya- 
XoTTperreia, evp-ddeia, p.vqpr]' /cat aov eTTiXa- 
J) ^ofxevov, OTL TTO-s p-ev dvayKaaOyjaeTac opioXoyelv 
OLS Xeyop,ev, edoas 8e tovs Xoyovs, els avTovs 
dTTO^XeiJjas rrepl cbv 6 Xoyos, (jiairj opdv avTcov 
TOVS piev dxprjOTovs, tovs 8e ttoXXovs KaKovs 
TTaaav KaKiav, ttjs Sia^oXfjs ttjv atrtav eTTtcr/co- 

" Similar metaphors for contact, approach and intercourse 
with the truth are frequent in Aristotle and the Neoplatonists. 
For Plato cf. Campbell on Theaet. 150 b and 186 a. Cf. also 
supra on 489 d. 

" Cf. Phaedo 65 e f., Symp. 211 e-212 a. 

' Lit. " be nourished." Cf. Protag. 313 c-d. Soph. 223 e, 
Phaedr. 248 b. 

^ A Platonic and Neoplatonic metaphor. Cf. Theaet. 
148 E if,, 151 A, and passim, Symp. 206 e, Eplst. ii. 313 a, 
Epictet. Diss. i. 22. 17. 
28 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

emulously for true being and that he would not linger 
over the many particulars that are opined to be real, 
but would hold on his way, and the edge of his passion 
would jiot be blunted nor would his desire fail till he 
came into touch with" the nature of each thing in itself 
by that part of his soul to which it belongs ^ to lay hold 
on that kind of reality — the part akin to it, namely — 
and through that approaching it, and consorting with 
reality really, he would beget intelligence and truth, 
attain to knowledge and truly hve and grow,"^ and so 
find surcease from his travail** of soul, but not before? " 
" No plea could be fairer." " Well, then, ^vill such a 
man love falsehood, or, quite the contrary, hate it ? " 
" Hate it," he said. \" \\Tien truth led the way, no 
choir* of e\ils, we, I fancy, would say, could ever follow 
initstrain." " How could it ."* " "But rather a sound 
and just character, which is accompanied by temper- 
ance." " Right," he said. " What need, then, of re- 
peating from the beginning our proof of the necessary 
order of the choir that attends on the philosophical 
nature ? You surely remember that we found per- 
taining to such a nature courage, grandeur of soul, 
aptness to learn, memory.' And when you interposed 
the objection that though everybody will be com- 
pelled to admit our statements,' yet, if we abandoned 
mere words and fixed our eyes on the persons to whom 
the words referred, everj-one would say that he actu- 
ally saw some of them to be useless and most of them 
base with all baseness, it was in our search for the 

' For the figurative use of the word xopos cf. 560 z, 
580 B, Euthydem. 279 c, Theaet. 173 b. 

' For the list of virtues cf. supra on 487 a. 

' Cf. for the use of the dative Polit. 258 a crx.'^fX'^oih oTv 
oh \i~,eL, Phaedo 100 c ry Toiade airia ffi'yx'^pf^^t Horace, Sat. 
ii. 3. 305 " stultum me fateor, liceat eoncedere veris," 

29 



PLATO 

TTOvvres em rovrto vvv yeyovafiev, rt ttoO^ ol ttoAAoi 
KaKOL, Kal TOVTOV Srj evcKa TrdXtv aveiX-q^ajxev rrjv 
Tcov aXrjOa)? (f)iXoG6(l>a)v (f)vcnv Kal i^ dvdyKr]? 

E d)pLaafjLe6a. "EiCttw, €(f>rj, ravra. 

VI, Tavrrjs hrj, rjv 8' iyco, Trjs (f>va€co? Set 
ueaaraadai rds (f)6opdg, cu? StdAAurat iv ttoXXols, 
ajXLKpov 8e Ti €K(f)evyet,, ovs 817 '<:at ov TTOvrjpovs, 
axprjOTOvs 8e KaXovai- Kal pLcrd rovro av rds 
491 fiLfiovfjievas ravTTjv Kal els to eTTiTrihevp.a KadiOTa- 
fjLevas avT7]g, olai ovaai (f)vaeig tjjvxcov ^Is dvd^Lov 
/cat fxell^ov eavTcvv d(^iKvovpievai eTnTqhevixa, ttoX- 
Xaxfj TrXrjuixeXovaaL, Travraxf] Kal eirl Trdvras 
So^av oiav Xiyeis (f){,Xoao(f)La Trpoarjipav. TtVa? 8e, 
e<^7], TCLS hia^Oopds Xeyeis; 'Eyoi crot, elTTOV, av 
OLOs re yevcofiai, TTeipdaop-ai SieXdelv. roSe fiev 
ovv, ofjLtat, 775? rjixLV 6p.oXoyrjaeL, Toiavrrjv ^vaiv 
/cat Trdvra exovaav, oaa Trpoaerd^afiev vvv S'q, 

B €t reXecos /xe'AAot (/)LX6(TO(f)os yeveadai, oAtya/cis 
ev avdpa)7TOis (f)vea9ai Kal oAtya?" rj ovk otei; 
2(/>dSpa ye. Tovrcov Srj rcov oXiycov OKOTrei d)s 
TToXXol oXedpoL Kal fxeydXoL. TiVe? 8?]; "O fiev 
TrdvTCov davfiaaroTarov aKovaai, on ev eKaarov 
ojv eTTTjveGapLev Trjg (f)vaews dnoXXvai ttjv exovaav 
ijjvx'r]v /cat aTToaTTa (f>LXoao(f)ias' Xeyoj 8e avSpeiav, 
aw(f)poavvrjv, Kal irdvra a hL-qXdop.ev. "Atottov, 

C ^<f)f), aKovaai. "Ert rolvvv, rjv 8' eyo), Trpos 



" Le petit nombre des elus. Cf. infra 496 a-b and Phaedo 
69 c-D, Matt. XX. 16, xxii. 14. 

* For the Greek double use of dfios and di-dfios cf. Laics 
943 E, Aesch. Ag. 1527. Cf. " How worthily he died who 
died unworthily " and Wyatt's line " Disdain me not with- 
out desert." 

80 



fl 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

cause of this ill-repute that we came to the present 
question : Why is it that the majority are bad ? 
And, for the sake of this, we took up again the nature 
of the true philosophers and defined what it must 
necessarily be ? " " That is so," he said. 

VI. " We have, then," I said, " to contemplate the 
causes of the corruption of this nature in the majority, 
while a small part escapes," even those whom men 
call not bad but useless ; and after that in turn we are 
to observe those who imitate this nature and usurp 
its pursuits and see what types of souls they are that 
thus entering upon a way of life which is too high ^ for 
them and exceeds their powers, by the many dis- 
cords and disharmonies of their conduct everywhere 
and among all men bring upon philosophy the repute 
of which you speak." " Of what corruptions are you 
speaking ? " "I ^«11 try," I said, " to explain them 
to you if I can. I think everyone will grant us this 
point, that a nature such as we just now postulated 
for the perfect philosopher is a rare growth among 
men and is found in only a few. Don't you think so ? " 
" Most emphatically." " Observe, then, the number 
and magnitude of the things that operate to destroy 
these few." " What are they ? " " The most sur- 
prising fact of all is that each of the gifts of nature 
which we praise tends to corrupt the soul of its pos- 
sessor and divert it from philosophy. I am speaking 
of braver}', sobriety, and the entire list.'' " " That does 
sound Uke a paradox," said he. "Furthermore," said I, 

• Cf. Burton, Anatomy, i. 1 " This St. Austin acknow- 
ledgeth of himself in his humble confessions, promptness of 
wit, memory, eloquence, they were God's good gifts, but he 
did not use them to his glory." 

Cf. Meno 88 a-c, and Seneca, Ep. v. 7 " multa bona 
nostra nobis nocent." 

31 



PLATO 

TOVTOis TO. XeyojJLeva dyada Travra (f>9eLpeL Kal dvo- 
GTTa, KctAAo? Kal ttXovtos Kal laxvs aco/xaTog Kal 
^vyyeveta eppcofxevr) iv TToAet Kal rravra rd rov- 
Tcov oiKela' kx^ts yap rov tvttov wv Aeyo). "Ep^co, 
€(f>r)' Kal TjSecos y' dv dKptBearepov d Xeyetg ttvOol- 
IJ-fjv. Aa^ov TOLVvv, rjv 8' eyco, oXov avrov opdojg, 
Kai aoi €v87]X6v re (jiavelrai Kal ovk droTra Sofet 
ra TTpoeipr^jxeva jrepl avrcjv. Yichg ovv, e^f], 

D KeXevcLs; Ilavros, -^u S' iyco, aTtepfxaTos Ttepi ■^ 
<j)VTOv, €LT€ eyyeioiv etre rcov t^axxtv, tcrfiev, on to 
H'l Tu;y;ov Tpo<prjs rjs Trpoar^Ket, eKaaroj /xtjS' oipas 
fiiqoe TOTTOV, oao) dv ippcofxeueurepoi' fj, roaovro) 
irXeLovoiv iySel rcbv TrpeTTOvriov dyado) yap ttov 
KaKov evavTLCiirepov -q ro) firj dyadco. IIcD? 8' ov; 
E;^ei 87^, otfiaL, Xoyov, ttjv dpLarrjv (f)vcnv iv 
dXXorpicorepa ovaav rpocjifj KaKiov dTTaXXdrreiv rrjs 
(f)avXrjg. "E;\;ei. Ovkovv, t^v 8' iyco, c5 'A8ei- 

E fjLavT€, Kai rds ipv^dg ovtco ^djfiev rds €V(f>ve- 
araras KaKrjs Traihayojyias TV)(ovaag StacfyepovTCos 
KaKas yiyveaOai; rj otei rd (xeydXa dSiKT^/xara 
Kat, T7}v aKparov TTOvrjpiav iK <j)avXrjs, dAA' ovk 
CK veaviKTJs <l>va€(os rpo<j>fi StoXop.ivrjs yiyveadai,, 

" Cf. What Plato Said, p, 479 on Charm. 158 a. For 
" goods " cf. ibid. p. 629 on Laws 697 b. The minor or 
earlier dialogues constantly lead up to the point that goods 
are no good divorced from wisdom, or the art to use them 
rightly, or the political or royal art, or the art that will make 
us happy. Cf. What Plato Said, p. 71. 

' This is for Plato's purpose a sufficiently clear statement 
of the distinction between contradictory and contrary op- 
position. Plato never drew out an Aristotelian or modern 
logician's table of the opposition of propositions. But it is 
a misunderstanding of Greek idiom or of his style to say 
that he never got clear on the matter. He always understood 

32 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

*' all the so-called goods " corrupt and divert, beauty 
and wealth and strength of body and powerful family 
connexions in the city and all things akin to them — 
you get my general meaning?" " I do," he said, " and 
I would gladly hear a more precise statement of it." 
"Well," said I, "grasp it rightly as a general proposition 
and the matter will be clear and the preceding state- 
ment will not seem to you so strange." " How do you 
bid me proceed ? " he said. " We know it to be univer- 
sally true of every seed and growth, whether vegetable 
or animal, that the more vigorous it is the more it 
falls short of its proper perfection when deprived 
of the food, the season, the place that suits it. For 
evil is more opposed to the good than to the not-good.* " 
"Of course." "So it is, I take it, natural that the best 
nature should fare worse "^ than the inferior under con- 
ditions of nurture unsuited to it." "It is." "Then," 
said I, " Adeimantus, shall we not similarly affirm that 
the best endowed souls become worse than the others 
under a bad education ? Or do you suppose that great 
crimes and unmixed wickedness spring from a slight 
nature '^ and not from a vigorous one corrupted by its 

it. Cf. Symp. 202 a-b, and supra on 437 a-b, What Plato 
Said, p. 595 on Soph. 257 b, and ibid. p. 563 on Rep, 
436 b ff. 

' " Corruptio optimi pessima." Cf. 495 a-b, Xen. Mem. 
L 2. 24, iv. 1. 3-4, Dante, Inferno, vi. 106: 

*; Ed egli a me : Ritorna a tua scienza 

Che vuol, quanto la cosa e piii perfetta. 
Pill senta 11 bene e cosl la doglienza. 

Cf. Livy xxxviii. 17 " generosius in sua quidquid sede gigni- 
tur: insitum alienae terrae in id quo alitur, natura vertente 
se, degenerat," Pausanias vii. 17. 3. 

' Cf. 495 b; La Rochefoucauld, Max. 130 "la faiblesse 
est le seul ddfaut qu'on ne saurait corriger " and 467 " la 
hiblesse est plus oppos^e a la vertu que le vice." i 

VOL. II D S3 



PLATO 

aadevrj Se <f}V(nv fxeyaXiov ovre dyadcov ovre icaKOiv 
aLTiav TTore eaeaoai; Uvk, aAAa, rj o os, ovtcos. 

'2 Hv Toivvv edejxev rod (f)L\oa6(f)OV <f)V(JLV, av fX€v, 
olfjLaL, fxadiqaeois TrpoarjKovarjs tvxJ], €ls Trdaav 
dperrjv dvdyKr] av^avofxevrjv d<^LKveladai, idv Se 
fiTj iv TrpoarjKovarj OTrapelad re Kal (f>VTevdeiaa 
rpe^rjraL, et? vravra rdvavria av, idv p.'q ti? avrfj 
^orjOijcras dewv 'tvxJ)- '^ Kal av 'qyeZ, cooTrep ol 
TToAAoi, hia^deipop^evovs TLvds elvat vtto aotftLarcov 
veovs, hia^deipovras he rivas aocfyLards ISiajrtKovs, 
6 Ti Kal d^Lov Xoyov, dAA ovk avTovs rovs ravra 

B Xeyovrag pieyiaTovs fiev elvai ao(f)icrrds , TratSeueij/ 
Se TeAec^TaTa /cat dTrepydl^eaOai olovs ^ovXovrai 
etvai, Kal veovs Kal Trpea^vrepovs Kal dvSpag Kal 
yvvoLKag; Ilore Stj; rj 8' os. "Orav, eiTTOv, 
^vyKaOel^opievoL ddpoot ol ttoXXoV els eKKXiqaias 
Tj els hiKaarripLa r) dearpa rj arparoTTeha rj riva 
dXXov Koivov TrX-qdovs ^vXXoyov ^vv ttoXXo) dopv^co 
^ oi TToXXoi Hermann: ttoWoI mss., ol seel. Cobet. 

» Cf. infra 497 b, Tim. 4:3 d. 

* This is the d^ia /xoipa of 498 a and Meno 99 e. Cf. What 
Plato Said, p. 517. 

" See What Plato Said, pp. 12 fF. and on Meno 93-94. Plato 
again anticipates many of his modern critics. Cf G rote's 
defence of the sophists passim, and Mill, Utility of Religion 
{Three Essays on Religion, pp. 78, 84 ff.). 

"* iSiojTiKovs refers to individual sophists as opposed to the 
great sophist of public opinion. Cf. 492 d, 493 a, 494 a. 

* For Kal d^Lov \6yov cf. Euthydem. 279 c, Laches 192 a, 
Laws 908 b, supra 445 c, Thucyd. ii. 54. 5, ArLstot. Pol. 
1272 b 32, 1302 a 13, De part. an. 654 a 13, Demosth. v. 16, 
Isoc. vi. 56. 

f Cf. Gorg. 490 b, Emerson, Self-Reliance : " It is easy | 
... to brook the rage of the cultivated classes. ... 
But . . . when the unintelligent brute force that lies at the 

34 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

nurture, while a weak nature wiU never be the cause 
of anything great, either for good or evil ? " " No," 
he said, " that is the case." " Then the nature 
which we assumed in the philosopher, if it receives 
the proper teaching, must needs grow and attain to 
consummate excellence, but, if it be sown** and planted 
and growTi in the WTong en\dronment, the outcome 
will be quite the contrary unless some god comes to 
the rescue.* Or are you too one of the multitude who 
beheve that there are young men who are corrupted 
by the sophists,*' and that there are sophists in private 
life ^ who corrupt to any extent woi'th mentioning,* 
and that it is not rather the very men who talk in this 
strain who are the chief sophists and educate most 
effectively and mould to their own heart's desire 
young and old, men and women ? " " When ? " said 
he. " Why, when," I said, " the multitude are seated 
together ^ in assembUes or in court-rooms or theatres 
or camps or any other pubhc gathering of a crowd, 

bottom of society is made to growl and mow, it needs the 
habit of magnanimity and religion to treat it godlike as a 
trifle of no concernment," Carlyle, French Revolution: 
" Great is the combined voice of men. . . . He who can 
resist that has his footing somewhere beyond time." 

For the public as the great sophist cf. Brimley, Essays, 
p. 224 (The Angel in the House) : " The miserable view of 
life and its purposes which society instils into its youth of 
both sexes, being still, as in Plato's time, the sop'hist par 
excellence of which all individual talking and writing sophists 
are but feeble copies." Cf. Zeller, Ph. d. Gr.* ii. 1 . 601 " Die 
sophistische Ethik ist seiner Ansicht nach die elnfache Kon- 
sequenz der Gewohnlichen." This is denied by some recent 
critics. The question is a logomachy. Of course there is 
more than one sophistic ethics. Cf. Mill, Dissertations and 
Discussions, iv. pp. 247 n., 263 ff., 275. 

For Plato's attitude toward the sophists see also Polit. 
303 c, PlMedr. 260 c,'What Plato Said, pp. U-15, 158. 

35 



PLATO 

. Ta fiev t/jeycoai rwv Xeyofievcjv rj TTparrofxevoiv, to. 
8e eTTaLvcocnv, vvep^aXXomcos iKdrepa, /cat e/c- 

C ^oajvres Kal Kporovvres, npos 8' avrols at re 
TTerpai /cat o tottos ev (h av d)cnv e7T'r]-)(ovvres 
hnrXdaiov dopv^ov Trapexoiai rov ipoyov /cat 
eTTaLvov. iv Srj rep roiovnp rov viov, ro XeyopLevov, 
riva otei Kaphiav tax^tv; •^ TToCav av avra> Trat- 
oetap IBnorLKTjv dvOe^eiv, rjv ov KaraKXvadeZaav 
V7TO rov roLovrov ipoyov rj eTraivov olxTjcreadai 
(jtepop.iv'qv Kara povv, fj av ovros <f>^pijt Kal 
(f)'qa€LV re ra avra rovroLS /caAo. /cat alaxpa elvai, 

D Kal eTTLrrjSevoeLv aTvep av ovroi, Kal eaeaQai 
rotovrov; HoXXij, -^ S' os, & ^coKpares, dvdyKrj. 
VII. Kat fji-qv, rjv 8' eyco, ovrrco rrjv fieyiarrjv 
avdyK-qv elprjKap.€v . Hotav; e^i?. "Wv epyco Trpoa- 
riOeaai, Xoyco fxrj Treidovres, ovroi ol TraiSevrai 
re /cat ao(f>iaraL. rj ovk otuda, on rov firj vetdo- 
puevov art/xtat? re /cat xpiqpaaL Kal OavdroLS 
KoXdi,ovaiv; Kat pidXa, e<f)r], a^ohpa. TtVa ovv 
dXXov aro(f)t,arrjv otet -^ ttolovs IBiconKOVs Xoyovs 

E evavria rovrois reivovras Kpar-qaeiv ; Otfiat. fxev 
ovoeva, i] o os. Uu yap, r\v o eyoi, aAAa /cat ro 
eiTLX^i-p^Zv voXXr] dvota. ovre yap yiyverai ovre 
yeyovev ovhe ovv p,rj yevqrai [aAAo '^^] aXXotov 
•^dos TTpos dperrjv Trapd rrjV rovra)v rraiheiav 
1 (JXXo 7) was added by Hermann, unnecessarily. 

" Cf. Eurip. Orest. 901, they shouted cbs KaXuJs \iyoL, 
also Euthydem. 303 b oi kIov€s, 276 b and d, Shorey on 
Horace, Orf^-s i. 20. 7 "datus intheatrocumtibiplausus," and 
also the account of the moulding process in Protag. 323-326. 

* What would be his plight, his state of mind; how would 
he feel? Cf. Shorey in Class. Phil. y. (1910) pp. 220-221, 
Iliad xxiv. 367, Theognis 748 /cai riva dvfibv ^x'^" > Symp, j 
36 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

and Mritli loud uproar censure some of the things that 
are said and done and approve others, both in excess, 
with full-throated clamour and clapping of hands, 
and thereto the rocks and the region round about 
re-echoing redouble the din of the censure and the 
praise." In such case how do you think the young 
man's heart, as the saying is, is moved within him?* 
WTiat private teaching do you think \vill hold out and 
not rather be swept away by the torrent of censure and 
applause, and borne off on its current, so that he will 
affirm " the same things that they do to be honourable 
and base, and will do as they do, and be even 
such as they ? " " That is quite inevitable, Socrates," 
he said. 

V^II. " And, moreover," I said, " we have not yet 
mentioned the chief necessity and compulsion." 
"What is it.'' " saidhe. " That which these ' educators ' 
and sophists impose by action when their words fail to 
conWnce. Don't you know that they chastise the 
recalcitrant \vith loss of civic rights and fines and 
death ? " " They most emphatically do," he said. 
" What other sophist, then, or what private teaching 
do you think will prevail in opposition to these .'' " 
" None, I fancy," said he. " No," said I, " the very 
attempt"* is the height of folly. For there is not, never 
has been and never will be,* a divergent tvpe of char- 
acter and \lrtue created by an education rimning 

919 D 3 rlva oteaOe fxe didvoiav ^x^'-" i Eurip. I. A. 1173 rir 
iw S6iJXHi fie KapSiav i^etv hoKtis ; 

* Adam translates as if it were Kai (p-qaei. Cf. my " Platon- 
ism and the History of Science," Avier. Philos. Soc. Proc. 
Ixvi. p. 174 n. See Stallbaum ad loc. 

. * Cf. Protag. 317 a-b. Soph. 239 c. Laws 818 d. 

• Cf. Od. xvi. 437. See Friedlander, Platon, ii. 386 n. 
who says aXKolov yiyvfff6ai can only = a\\oiov<T$ai, "be made 
different." 

37 



PLATO 

TTeTTaiSevfievov , av6pd)TT€iov, (h eraipe* deXov fxevroi 
Kara ttjv rrapoLfMiav i^aipwiiev Xoyov ev yap 
Xpy] eiSeVai, o Tt Trep av acodfj re Kal yevrjTai otov 
493 Set iv TOiavrr) Karaardaei TToXcreiaJv, deov {xoZpav 
avro acooaL Xeyojv ov KaKcog ipeis. OuS' e^uot 
dXXcjos, ^4'V> So/cet. "Ert roivvv aoi, rjv 8 eycu, 
irpos Tovrots /cat roSe So^aro). To ttoZov; E/ca- 
CTTo? TcDi' fjLtadapvovvrojv tStwrcDv, oy? St^ ovroi 
ao(l)taTas KaXouGL Kal avrnexvovs 'qyouvrai, (jlt) 
aXXa TTaiSeveLv t) ravra ra rcDr ttoXXu)v Soyp-ara, 
d So^d^ovGLV orav ddpoiaOojai, /cat aocf)iav ravrrjv 
KaXelv olovnep dv el dpep,p,aTOS p.eyaXov /cat 
laxvpov rp€<f)op,€vov rds opyds tls /cat inLdvpias 
B Karepidvdavev, ottt] re TrpoaeXOeiv XPV '^^'' ^'^V 
difjaadai avrov, /cat OTTore ;)(;aAe7rcyTaTOt' t) irpao- 
Tarov Kal e/c rivcov yiyverai, Kal <f)a>vds 817 e0' 
01? eKdaras elojde (f)deyyeadat, Kal olas av dXXov 
(f>deyyop.evov rjpepovrai re /cat dyptaivei, Kara- 
p,add)v 8e raura irdvra ^vvovoia re Kal xpovov 
rpL^fj aoj)iav re KaXeaeiev Kal (hs rexvrjv avarrjad- 

" Cf. 529 c for the idiom, and Laws 696 a ov yap ^^7 ""ore 
yivqrai irais Kai dvrjp Kal yepwv ^k ravrrji ttjs rpoipTJs diaipepuv 
irpos ap^T-qv. 

" Cf. Symp. 176 c (of Socrates), Phaedr. 242 b, Theaet. 

162 D-E, 

" Cf. supra on 492 a, Apol. 33 c, Pliaedo 58 e, Protaj. 
328 z, Mem 99 e, Phaedr. 244 c, Laws 642 c, 875 c. Ion 534 c. 

"* Cf. Arnold, Preface to Essays in Criticism; Pliaedo 
60 D, Laics 817 B, Ora Virtue 376 d. 

' Cf. Epist. V. 321 D ^(jTiv yap 8ri m (puivrj tCiv iroKi.Teiwv 
iKdcrrrjs KaddirepeL rivuiv t;'(foov, " each form of government has 
a sort of voice, as if it were a kind of animal " (tr. L. A. Post), 
Hackforth says this is a clumsy imitation of the Republic 
which proves the letter spurious. Cf. Thomas Browne, 
Religio Medici, ii. 1 " If there be any among those common 

38 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

counter to theirs^ — humanly speaking, I mean, my 
friend; for the divine, astheproverbsays.allrales fail.* 
And you may be sure that, if anything is saved and 
turns out well in the present condition of society and 
government, in saying that the providence of God " 
preserves it you will not be speaking ill." "Neither do 
I think otherwise," he said. " Then," said I, " think 
this also in addition." " What ? " " Each of these 
private teachers who work for pay, whom the politicians 
call sophists and regard as their rivals,** inculcates 
nothing else than these opinions of the multitude 
which they opine when they are assembled and calls 
this knowledge \^'isdom. It is as if a man were acquir- 
ing the knowledge of the humours and desires of a 
great strong beast * which he had in his keeping, how 
it is to be approached and touched, and when and by 
what things it is made most savage or gentlel yes, 
and the several sounds it is wont to utter on the 
occasion of each, and again what sounds uttered by an- 
other make it tame or fierce, and after mastering this 
knowledge by living with the creature and by lapse 
of time should call it wisdom, and should construct 

objects of hatred I do contemn and laugh at, it is that great 
enemy of reason, virtue, and religion, the multitude . . . one 
great beast and a monstrosity more prodigious than Hydra," 
Horace, Epist. i. 1. 76 " belua multorum es capitum." Also 
Hamilton's " Sir, your people is a great beast," Sidney, 
^ircadia, bk. ii. " Many-headed multitude," Wallas, Human 
Nature in Politics, p. 172 " . . . like Plato's sophist is learn- 
ing what the public is and is beginning to understand ' the 
passions and desires ' of that ' huge and powerful brute,' " 
Shakes. Coriolanus iv. i. 2 "The beast with many heads 
Butts me away," ibid. ii. iii. 18 "The many-headed multi- 
tude." For the idea cf. also Gorg. 501 b-c fF., Phaedr. 260 c 
So^as 6e wXridovs ^f/ifXeTT/Ktis, "having studied the opinions 
of the multitude," Isoc. ii. 49-50. 

39 



PLATO 

\ fievos €7tI ScSaaKaXlav TpenoLTO, fj.rjBev etScu? rfj 
' aXrjdeia tovtcov rcov Soyfjudrajv re /cat imdvinajv, 
6 Ti KaXov T] aLO^pov •^ ayaOov ■^ /ca/cov ^ hiKaiov 
C f] aSiKov, ovoixdt,oi Se Trdvra ravra im raXs tov 
fieydXov ^q)ov So^aig, ots fieu x^^^poi- €Kelvo dyadd 
KaX(ov, ots Be dxOoLTO /ca/ca, d'AAoi/ 8e fi-qheva e^oi 
Xoyov 7T€pl avra)v, dXXd rdvayKaZa SiVaia KaXol 
/cat KaXd, TTjv 8e rov dvayKacov /cat dyadov (fivcriv, 
j oaov Si,a(f)ep€L rip ovtl, p,rjTe ecupa/ccb? eir] fxi/jTe 
dXXo) Svvaros Set^at. tolovtos Btj cov irpos Ato? 
OVK droTTog dv crot So/cet eti'at TratSeuri^s'; "E/xoty , 
6^17. ^H ow Tt Toyroy 80/cet Siac^epeti' o ttji' tcDv 
D 77oAAa)t' /cat iravTohaTTibv ^vvlovtcov opy^v /cat 
■^Sovd? Karavevor^Kevai ao(f)i,av rjyovp,evos, etr ei' 
ypa(f)LKfj etr' ei^ jiovaiKfj etre 8t) et' 7ToXiTtKfj;f otl 
fikv ydp, idv tls tovtois opiXfj eTnheLKvvpLevos t] 
TToirjaLV tj riva dXXrjv Srjpiovpyiav t] TrdAet 8ta- 
Koviav, Kvpiovs avrov ttolwv rovs ttoXXovs Trepa 
rdjv dvayKaioiv , rj Ato/x7j8eta Xeyopivq dvdyK-q 
TTOLctv avrdi ravra a dv oSroL iiratvcbcFLV d)s 8e 
/cat dya^d /cat /caAd ravra rfj dX'qdeia, 17877 

« Cf. Class. Phil. ix. (1914) p. 353, n. 1, ibid, xxiii. (1928) 
p. 361 {Tim. 75 d), What Plato Said, p. 616 on Tim. 47 e, 
Aristot. Eth. 1120 b 1 oux tiis Ka\6v dW ws dfayKaiov, Emer- 
son, Circles, " Accept the actual for the necessary," Eurip. 
J.A. 724 KaXuis dvayKaiws re. Mill iv. 299 and Grote iv. 221 
miss the meaning. Cf. supra Bk. I. on 347 c, Newman, 
Aristot. Pol. i. pp. 113-114, lamblichus, Protrept. Teubner 
148 K. dyvoovvTOS . . . oaov SLfary^Kiv ef d.pxn^ to. dyadh /cat ra 
avayKaia, " not knowing how divergent have alwajs been the 
good and the necessary." 
40 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

thereof a system and art and turn to the teaching of 
it, knowing nothing in reality about which of these 
opinions and desires is honourable or base, good or evil, 
just or unjust, but should apply all these terms to the 
judgements of the great beast, calling the things that 
pleased it good, and the things that vexed it bad, 
having no other account to render of them, but should 
call what is necessary just and honourable," never 
having observed how great is the real difference 
between the necessary and the good, and being in- 
capable of explaining it to another. Do you not 
think, by heaven, that such a one would be a stra nge^ 
educator ? " "I do," he said. " Do you suppose 
that there is any difference between such a one and 
the man who thinks that it is wisdom to have learned 
to know the moods and the pleasures of the motley 
multitude in their assembly, whether about painting 
or music or, for that matter, politics ? I For if a man 
associates with these and offers and exhibits to them 
his poetry '' or any other product of his craft or any 
political service,*' and grants the mob authority over 
himself more than is unavoidable j"* the proverbial 
necessity of Diomede * will compel him to give the 
public what it hkes, but that what it likes is really 
good and honourable, have you ever heard an 

* Cf. Laws 659 b, 701 a, Gorg. 502 b. 
« Cf. 371 c, Gorg. 517 a, 518 b. 

•* Plato likes to qualify sweeping statements and allow 
something to necessity and the weakness of human nature. 
Cf. Phaedo 64 e KaO' ocov fj.ri xoXXi; dvd-y/ci;, infra 558 d-e, 
500 D, 383 c. 

* The scholiast derives this expression from Diomedes' 
binding Odysseus and driving him back to camp after the 
latter had attempted to kill him. The schol. on Aristoph. 
Eccl. 10-29 gives a more ingenious explanation. See Frazer, 
Pausanias, ii. p. 264. 

41 



PLATO 

7ra)7Tore rov TJKovaas avrcov Xoyov SiSovTOS" ov 
E KarayiAaaTov ; Oi/xai 8e ye, rj S' 6s, ov8 
aKovao^ai. 

VIII. Taura roivvv Trdvra iworjaas eKelvo 
dvafj.v7^a6T]Tf avro ro KaXov, dAAo. [xr] to, TroAAa 
KaXd, 7] avTO n eKaarov koX fir] rd TroAAa eKacFra, 
€crd' OTTCos vXtjOos dve^erai t] rjyrjaeraL elvai; 
"IIkicttci y', €(f)ri. OtAoao^ov' fxev dpa, rjv 8 eyoj, 
494 ttXtjOos dSvvaTOV etvai. 'ASwarov. Kat tous 
(f)LXoao(f)ovvras dpa dvdyK-q ipeyeadat, vrr avrcov. 
^AvdyKrj. Kai vtto tovtcjjv Stj tcov tSuordJv, baoi 
TTpoaofiiXovvTes op^Ao) dpeaKeiv avrw eTTidvpLOvaiv. 
ArjXov. 'E/c S17 Tovrojv riva opag acjrrjpiav 
(fiiXoaocfxx) (f}vaei, o^gt eV to) eTrtTTjSeujLtari //.et- 
vacraj/ TT-po? reXos iXdeiv; evvoei 8' e/c tcDv e/x- 
B Trpoadev. (hpLoXoyrjr ai yap 8?) T^/itv evjJidOeta Kat 
Ixv-qpLT] Koi dvSpela /cat pLeyaXonpeTTeia ravTrjg eivai 
rrjs J)va€cos. Nat. Ovkovv evdvs eV Tratatt' d 
roLOVTos TTpcoTOs cCTTat €v aTTauLV, aAAois re /cat 
edv TO orwjjLa (f)vfj 7Tpocr(f)€pr)s rfj ijjvx'j]; Tt 8 ou 
/xe'AAet; e^Siy. BoyAT^fforrai Sr^, ot/iat, auroi ^^t^" 

» KarayeKaarou is a strong word. " Make the very jack- 
asses laugh" would give the tone. Cf. Carlyle, Past and 
Present, iv. " Impartial persons have to say with a sigh 
that . . - they have heard no argument advanced for it but 
such as might make the angels and almost the very jack- 

3,SSCS weep. 

Cf. also Isoc. Panegyr. 14, Phil. 84, 101, Antid. ^A,l, 
Peace 36, and KarayeXaaros in Plato passim, e.g. Symp. 189 b. 

* A commonplace of Plato and all intellectual idealists. 
Cf. 503 B, Polit. 292 e, 29T b, 300 e. J 

" Novotnv, Plato's Epistles, p. 87, uses this to support his i 
view that Plato had a secret doctrine. Adam quotes Gorg. 1 
474 A Toh 5e ttoXKois ov8i diaXiyofjLai, which is not quite 

42 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

attempted proof of this that is not simply ridiculous" ?" 
" No," he said, " and I fancy I never shall hear it 
either." 

VIII. " Bearing all this in mind, recall our former 
question. Can the multitude possibly tolerate or 
believe in the reality of the beautiful in itself as 
opposed to the multiplicity of beautiful things, or 
can they beheve in anything conceived in its essence 
as opposed to the many particulars ? " " Not in the 
least," he said. " Philosophy, then, the love of 
wisdom, is impossible for the multitude.^ " " Im- 
possible." " It is inevitable,"^ then, that those who 
philosophize should be censured by them." " In- 
evitable." " And so likewise by those laj-men who, 
associating with the mob, desire to currj- favour •* with 
it." "Ob\"iously." " From this point of view do 
you see any salvation that will suffer the born philo- 
sopher to abide in the pursuit and persevere to the 
end ? Consider it in the light of what we said before. 
We agreed* that quickness in learning, memory, 
courage and magnificence were the traits of this 
nature." "Yes." "Then even as a boy ^ among boys 
such a one ^^ill take the lead in all things, especially 
if the nature of his body matches the soul." " How 
could he fail to do so .? " he said. " His kinsmen and 

relevant- Cf. Renan, Etudes d^histoire relicr. p. 403 " La 
philosophie sera toujours le fait d'une imperceptible 
ininorite," etc. 

* It is ps\ chologically necessary. Cf. supra. Vol. I. on 
4T3 E. Cf. '527 A, Laws 655 e, 658 e, 681 c, 687 c, Phaedr. 
239 c, 271 B, Crito 49 n. 

" Cf. Gorg. 481 e, 510 d, 513 b. 

' In 4S7 A. 

f Cf. 386 A. In what follows Plato is probably thinking of 
Alcibiades. Ale. I. 103 a flF. imitates the passage. Cf. Xen. 
Mem. i. 2. 24. 

43 



PLATO 

aOai, €7T€iBav TTpea^vrepos yiyvrjrai, enl to. avrcjv 
TTpdyixara ol re OLKeloL Kal ol TroAirat. Ilctj? o 

C ov; *Y7TOK€L(jovTaL apa Seofxevot Kal Tip^oJvreg, 
TTpoKaraXapL^avovTeg /cat Trpo/coAa/ceyovres' ttjv 
fieXXovGav avrov Svvap,iv. OtAet yovv, e^t], ovroi 
yiyveadai. Ti ovv olei, rjv 8' eyco, top tolovtov 
iv roLS ToiovTOis TTOLTjaeiv, dXXoJS re /cat eav tvxJ] 
fjLeydXrjs TToXecos ctjv' Kal iv ravrr] rrXovaios re Kai 
yewoLog, Kal en eveLhrjs Kal fieyas; dp ov 
TrXrjpcodriaeadai dfjLrjxdvov eArriSos', r^yovp^evov /cat 
Ta T(ji)v 'YiXk-qvcov Kal rd rdJv ^ap^dpojv iKavov 

D eoreadai irpdrreLV, Kal eirl tovtols vipr]X6v e^apeXv 
avTov, ax'^P'O-TLcrpov /cat (f>povripaTOS Kevov avev 
vou epLTTLTrXdpievov ; Kai pdX , e(f)r]. To) hrj ovru) 
SiaTidepevcp edv rt? rjpep.a TrpoaeXdwv TaXr^urj 
Xeyr], on vovs ovk eveanv avrw, Setrat Se, to Be 
ov KTrjTov pTj hovXevaavn rfj KT'qaei avrov, dp 
evTrereg otet etv'at etaa/couCTat Sio. roaovra)v KaKcov; 
HoXXov ye Set, rj S' 09. 'Eav 8' ovv, '^v 8' eyw, 
Sid ro ev Tre^VKevai Kal ro ^vyyeves rwv X6ya>v 

E els alaOdvrjrai re nrj /cat Kapirr-qrai Kal eA/crjrat 
TTpos (^iXoao(j)Lav , ri olopeda Spdaeiv eKeivovs rovs 
rjyovp,evovs aTToXXvvat avrov rrjv ;)(/jetav re /cat 

" For vwoKeiaovrai cf. Gorg. 510 c, infra 576 a vTroire<r6vTes, 
Eurip. Orest. 670 v-jrorpex^Lv, Theaet. 173 a vireXdeiv. 

* i.e. endeavouring to secure the advantage of it for them- 
selves by winning his favour when he is still young and 
impressionable. 

" Cf. Ale. I. 104 B-c ff, 

* Cf. Ale. I. 105 B-c. 

* iixj/riXbv i^apetv, etc., seems to be a latent poetic quotation. 

44 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

fellow-citizens, then, will desire, I presume, to make 
use of him when he is older for their own affairs." 
"Of course." "Then they will fawn upon" him 
•with petitions and honours, anticipating * and flatter- 
ing the power that will be his." " That certainly 
is the usual way." " How, then, do you think such 
a youth will behave in such conditions, especially if 
it happen that he belongs to a great city and is rich 
and well-born therein, and thereto handsome and 
tall ^ Will his soul not be filled with unbounded 
ambitious hopes,'' and will he not think himself cap- 
able of managing the affairs of both Greeks and 
barbarians,** and thereupon exalt himself, haughty 
of mien and stuffed with empty pride and void 
of sense*?" "He surely will," he said. "And if 
to a man in this state of mind^ someone gently' 
comes and tells him what is the truth, that he has 
no sense and sorely needs it, and that the only way 
to get it is to work like a slave '* to win it, do you think 
it will be easy for him to lend an ear * to the quiet 
voice in the midst of and in spite of these e\-il sur- 
roundings ^ ? " " Far from it," said he. " And even 
supposing," said I, " that owing to a fortunate dis- 
position and his affinity for the words of admonition 
one such youth apprehends something and is moved 
and drawn towards philosophy, what do we suppose 
will be the conduct of those who think that they are 

' Or perhaps " subject to these influences." Adam says 
it is while he is sinking into this condition. 

» Cf. supra Vol. I. on 476 e. Cf. 533 d, Prolog. 333 e, 
Phaedo 83 a, Crat. 413 a, Tkeaet. 154 e. 

» Cf. Phaedo 66 d, Symp. 184 c, Euthydem. 282 b. 

' Cf. Epin. 990 a, Epist. vii. 330 a-b. 

' Cf. Ale. I. 135 E. 

45 



PLATO 

eraipeiav; ov ttolv fxkv epyov, ttolv S' eTTOj Ae- 
yovrds t€ Kal Trpdrrovras /cat Trepl avrov, ottcos 
av ixT) veLcrdfj, Kal nepl tou Treidovra, ottcos av fxrj 
oios T 7], Kai iSta eTTipovXevovras /cat hrifjLoaia els 
495 dycovas Kadiaravras; TioXXrj, rj 8' os, dvdyKT]. 
Kariv odv OTTOis 6 tolovtos (f>LXoao(f)-t^a€i ; Ov 
Trdvv. 

lA. Upas ovv, rjv o eyco, on ov KaKws eAe- 
yofiev (Ls dpa /cat aura ret rrjs (jiiXoao^ou (jivaeois 
liiprj, orav eV /ca/cTy Tpo(f)fj yevrjraL, a'lria rpoTTOv 
TLvd Tov eKveaetv e/c rov iTTiTrjSevfxaros, /cat rd 
Aeyojxeva dyadd, ttXovtol re /cat vdcra 7) Toiavrr) 
TrapaoKevq; Ov ydp, dAA' opdojs, e^i?, eXexdrj. 
OvTOS 8'q, eiTTOV, J) davfxdaie, oXedpos re /cat 
B ^La<j>dopd ToaavTf] re /cat roiavrr] rrjs ^eXrLarrjs 
<j>vaea)s els ro dpiarov eTTcrrjSevfia, oXtyrjs /cat 
dXXcos ytyvofxevTjs, cos rjixels (f>afjiev. /cat e/c tov- 
Tcov St) Tcbv dvSpojv /cat ol rd fieyiara /ca/ca epya- 
t,6iJ.evoL rds TToXeis yiyvovrat /cat tovs tStcora?, /cat 
ol r dyadd, ot av ravrr) Tv^oiai pvevres' apuKpd 
he ^vats ovhev fieya ovheTTore ovheva ovre ISloWtjv 
ovT€ ttoXlv Spa. ^AXyjOeaTara, t^ S' os. Ovtoi 
C p^ev Srj ovTOJS eKTTiTTrovres, ols pLoXiara TTpocriJKei, 
eprjfiov Kal dreXrj (f)iXocro(f)iav XeiTTovres avroi re 
^Lov ov rrpoaT^KOvra ovS' dXrjOrj ^cDcrt, rrjv Se 



" For irai' ipyov cf. Sophocles, El. 613. 
" Cf. 517 A. 

46 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

losing his service and fellowship ? Is there any word 
or deed that they will stick at" to keep him from being 
persuaded and to incapacitate anyone who attempts 
it,* both by private intrigue and public prosecution 
in the court ? " " That is inevitable," he said. 
" Is there any possibility of such a one continuing to 
philosophize ? " " None at all," he said. 

IX. " Do you see, then," said I, " that we were not 
wrongin saying that the very qualities that make up the 
philosophical nature do, in fact, become, when the en- 
vironment and nurture are bad, in some sort the cause 
of its backsliding, '^ and so do the so-called goods — ** 
riches and all such instrumentalities*?" "Xo," 
he rephed, " it was rightly said." " Such, my good 
friend, and so great as regards the noblest pursuit, is 
the destruction and corruption-'' of the most excellent 
nature, which is rare enough in any case,'' as we affirm. 
And it is from men of this type that those spring who 
do the greatest harm to communities and individuals, 
and the greatest good when the stream chances to 
be turned into that channel,'' but a small nature ' never 
does anything great to a man or a city." " Most 
true," said he. " Those, then, to whom she properly 
belongs, thus falling away and leaving philosophy 
forlorn and unwedded, themselves Uve an unreal and 
alien life, while other unworthy wooers '' rush in and 

' For iKit€<xiiv cf. 496 c. 
■* Cf. supra on 491 c, p. 32, note a. 

' Cf. Lysis 220 a ; Arnold's " machinery," Aristotle's 
Xopi77ia. 
' Cf. 491 B-z, Laws 951 b a5Ld<pdapT0i, Xen. Mem. i. 2. 24. 
' For Kal a\\a;s cf. II. ix. 699. 

* Cf. on 485 D ojairfp ptvfia. 

' Cf. on 491 E, p. 33, note d. 

* Cf. on 489 n, and Theaet. 173 c. 

47 



PLATO 

wcrnep 6p(f>avr^v ^vyyevcjv d'AAot eTreiaeXdom-es 
dvd^LOi yjaxvi'dv re /cat dreiSry TrepLrjipav, oia Kai 
av (f)fj? di/etSt^eiv tous dvetSi'^ovras', cvs ol ^vvovres 
avrfj ol jjiev ovSevos, ol Se ttoAAoi ttoXXcov KaKcov 
a^ioi eloLv. Kat yap ovv, €(f>'q, rd ye Xeyofxeva 
Tavra. Klkotcos ye, rjv 8' eyco, Xeyo/jieva. Kad- 
opayvTes yap dXXoi dvOpajTrioKOL KevrjV tt^v' xoopav 
ravrrjv yLyvopbevrjv, KaXojv Se dvofidroiv /cat rrpo- 

D crxrjfidrojv piearrjv, (Lanep ol e/c rdJv elpypucJov els 
rd lepd dTroStSpaa/covre?' dafievoL /cat oStol e/c 
TCi)v Te-)(ya)V eKTrrjScoaiv els ttjv (jyiXoaocJiiav, ol av 
KopuporaroL dvres Tvyxdvaxjt, irepl ro avrcov rex' 
viov. opLois yap Srj npos ye rds dXXas rexvas 
KaiTTep ovTOJ npaTTOvarjs (f>i,Xoao(fHas to d^iiopia 
fieyaXoTTpeTTearepov AetVeTaf oS Sr] €(f)LeiJi€voi 
TToXXoc dreXeXs p-ev rds (f>vaeLS, vtto he tcov rexvcov 
re /cat 8rjp,LovpyLa)v, (Lanep rd awpara XeXco^r^vrai, 

E ovTO) /cat rds ifjvxds ^vyKeKXa<jp,evoL re /cat (ztto- 
Tedpvfxp-evoL Stct rds ^avavaias rvyxdvovoiv. tj ovk 
avayKT); Kat fidXa, e<f)r]. Ao/cetj ovv n, rjv 8' 

" Cf. Taine, a Sainte-Beuve, Aug. 14, 1865: " Comme 
Claude Bernard, il depasse sa specialite et c'est chez des 
specialistes comme ceux-la que la malheureuse philosophie 
livr^e aux mains gantees et parfumees d'eau benite va 
trouver des maris capables de lui faire encore des enfants." 
Cf. Epictet. iii. 21, 21. The passage is imitated by Lucian 
3. 2. 287, 294, 298. 

For the shame that has befallen philosophy cf. Euthydem. 
304 ff., Epist. vii. 328 e, Isoc, Busiris 48, Plutarch 1091 e, 
Boethius, Cons. i. 3. There is no probabihty that this is 
aimed at Isocrates, who certainly had not deserted the 
mechanical arts for what he called philosophy, Rohde, 
Kleine Schri/ten, i. 319, thinks Antisthenes is meant. But 
48 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

defile her as an orphan bereft of her kin," and attach 
to her such reproachesi as you sav her revilers taunt 
her with, declaring that some of her consorts are of 
no account and the many accountable for many 
evils. "\ " Why, yes," he replied, " that is what they 
do say." "And plausibly," said I; "for other 
mannikins, observing that the place is unoccupied 
and full of fine terms and pretensions, just as men 
escape from prison to take sanctuary in temples, so 
these gentlemen joyously bound away from the 
mechanical arts '' to philosophy, those that are most 
cunning in their little craft. '^ For in comparison with 
the other arts the prestige of philosophy even in her 
present low estate retains a superior dignity ; and this 
is the ambition and aspiration of that multitude of 
pretenders unfit by nature, whose souls are bowed 
and mutilated ** by their vulgar occupations * even as 
their bodies are marred by their arts and crafts. Is 
not that inevitable .'' " " Quite so," he said. " Is 

Plato as usual is generalizing. See What Plato Said, p. 593 
on Soph. 242 c. 

* Cf. the dififerent use of the idea in Protag. 318 e. 

' Tfx^iov is a contemptuous diminutive, such as are common 
in Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius. Cf. also di'dpuirla-Koi. 
in c, and \pvxdpiov in 519 a. 

" Cf. infra 611 c-d, Thea£t. 173 a-b. 

* For the idea that trade is ungentlemanly and incompat- 
ible with philosophy cf. infra 522 b and 590 c, Laics 919 c ff., 
and What Plato Said, p. 663 on Rivals 137 b. Cf. Richard 
of Bury, Philobiblon, Prologue, "Fitted for the liberal arts, 
and equally disposed to the contemplation of Scripture, but 
destitute of the needful aid, they revert, as it were, by a 
sort of apostasy, to mechanical arts." Cf. also Xen. Mem. 
iv. 2. 3, and Ecclesiasticus xxxviii. 25 f. " How can he get 
wisdom that holdeth the plough and glorieth in the goad 
. . . and whose talk is of bullocks ? ... so every carpenter 
and workmaster . . . the smith . . . the potter ..." 

VOL. II E 49 



PLATO 

€yu), Sia(f)ep€iv avrovs tSeiv dpyvpiov KTrjaaixivov 
XOL^Kecos (f)aXaKpov /cat crfxiKpov, vecoarl [-lev e/c 
SeapLcbv XeXvpievou, eV ^aXavecco 8e XeXovp.ivov, 
veovpyov IpLartov exovros, cos vvpi<j)iov rrapeaKeva- 
apievov, 8ta rreviav koI iprjptav rod Searrorov 

496 T7]v dvyarepa pLeXXovros yapielv; Ov rrdw, ^(^r], 
Siacfyepei. Hoi* drra ovv et/co? yewdv tovs tolov- 
Tovs; ov voda Kal (f>avXa; HoXXtj dvdyKrj. Ti 
Sat; Tous" dva^lovs rraihcvaecos, orav avTrj irXr^aid- 
t,ovres opLiXwaL purj /car' d^lav, ttoV drra (f)d)pL€V 
yevvdv Stai'OT^/xara re /cat Sd^a?; a/>' ovx d)S 
aXrjddJs irpoa'qKovra dKovaai ao(f>Lap,ara, /cat ov- 
\ Sev yv-qoLov oi)Se (fipovrjaecDS dXrjdtvqs^ ixop^evov; 

' IlavTeXdJs pi€v ovv, e(f>r]. 

X. HdvapLiKpov St] ri, "qv 8' iyco, J) 'ASei/xarre, 

B XeiireTai rwv /car' df tar opuXovvTcov ^lAoao^ta, 77 

TTOV VTTO (f)vyrjg KaTaXrj(f>Qev yevvaiov /cat €v redpap,- 

p-evov TjOos, drropta tcov hia(j>9epovvroiv Kara 

<f)vaLV pLelvav ctt' avrij, ^ iv apiKpa vrdAet orav 

pLeydXi) ipvxrj (f)vij /cat drip-daaaa rd rrjs ttoXccos 

VTrepiSr]- ^paxv Se ttov ri /cat aTr' dXXrjs rex^'V^ 

SiKaccos dripidaav €V(f)ves iir* avrrjv dv eXdoL. €L7j 

8' dv /cat o rov 'qpuerepov iraipov Qedyovs xctAtfo? 

^ d|ioy seel. Ast: d^iov aXTjdivrjs AM, d^iov cjj dXrjdiyijs D, 
dXjj^iv^s wj d^Lov F: d^/ws conj. Campbell. 

" For a similar short vivid description cf. Erasfae 13i b. 
Euthyphro 2 b. Such are common in Plautus, e.g. Mer- 
cator 639. 

'' It is probably fanciful to see in this an allusion to the 
half-Thracian Antisthenes. Cf. also Theaet. 150 c, and Symp. 
212 A. 

« Cf. Euthydem. 306 d. 

■* Cf. Phaedrus 250 a 6\iyai St] XetVocrai, and supra 494 a 
and on 490 e. 
50 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

not the picture which they present," I said, " pre- 
cisely that of a httle bald-headed tinker'* who has 
made money and just been freed from bonds and 
had a bath and is wearing a new garment and has got 
himself up like a bridegroom and is about to marry 
his master's daughter who has fallen into poverty and 
abandonment ? " " There is no difference at all," he 
said. " Of what sort will probably be the offspring of 
such parents ? Will they not be bastard ^ and base ? " 
" Inevitably." " And so when men unfit for cul- 
ture approach philosophy and consort with her un- 
worthily, what sort of ideas and opinions shall we 
say they beget ? Will they not produce what may 
in very deed be fairly called sophisms, and nothing 
that is genuine or that partakes of true intelligence " r " 
" Quite so," he said. 

X. " There is a very small remnant,** then, Adei- 
mantus," I said, " of those mIio consort worthily ^«th 
philosophy, some well-born and well-bred nature, it 
may be, held in check* by exile,' and so in the absence 
of corrupters remaining true to philosophy, as its 
quahty bids, or it may happen that a great soul born 
in a little town scorns ' and disregards its parochial 
affairs ; and a small group perhaps might by natural 
affinity be drawn to it from other arts which they 
justly disdain ; and the bridle of our companion 
Theages^ also might operate as a restraint. For in the 

' Perhaps "overtaken." Cf. Goodwin on Dem. De cor. 
§ 107, 

' It is possible but unnecessary to conjecture that Plato 
may be thinking of Anaxagoras or Xenophon or himself 
or Dion. » C/. Theaef. 173 b, infra 540 d. 

* This bridle has become proverbial. Cf. Plut. De san. 
tuenda 126 b, Aelian, Var. Hist. iv. 15. iPor Theages cf, 
also Apol. 33 e and the spurious dialogue bearing his name. 



PLATO 

otos Karaorx^Lv Kal yap Qedyet, to. jxev aAAa navra 
C TTapeGKevaarai rrpos to iKneaelv (f)iXoao(l)Las, r) 8e 

!' rov acofxaros vo(JOTpocf)ia oLTreipyovaa avrov rcbv 
TToXlTlKOJV KaTeX^I'- TO 8' r)fX,€T€pOV OVK d^LOV 
Xdyeiv, TO Satp^ovLov a-qp^etov rj yap ttov tivi aAAo) 
. rj ovSevl tojv ep,7Tpoadev yeyove. /cat tovtcov St) 
Tcov oXiycov ol yev6p.€V0L /cat yevadp,€VOL cos 7)ov 
j /cat piaKaptov to KTfjp.a, /cat tcov ttoXXcov av LKavaJs 
\ IBovTes TTjV piaviav, /cat ort onsets' ovhev vyt-es co? 
eTTos eliTeiv Trepi to. tcov TToXecov npaTTei, ov8 eart 
D ivp.p.axo9, p-ed^ otov tis Icov inl ttjv twv SiKaicov 
^o-qdeiav crto^otT* dv, dAA' wanep et? Orjpia av- 
dpojTTOS epLTreacov, ovtc ^vvahiKelv ideXcov ovTe 
tKavos cov €Ls ndaiv dypiois dvT€X^t-v, irpiv tl ttjv 

" The enormous fanciful literature on the daimonion does 
not concern the interpretation of Plato, who consistently 
treats it as a kind of spiritual tact checking Socrates from 
any act opposed to his true moral and intellectual interests. 
Cf. What Plato Said, pp. 456-457, on Euthyphro 3 b, Jowett 
and Campbell, p. 285. 

* FoTToiTwv . . . 7ej'6/;t€)'ot c/. Aristoph. Clouds 107 tovtu)!' 
yevov fioi. 

« The irremediable degeneracy of existing governments is 
the starting-point of Plato's political and social specula- 
tions. Cf. infra 497 b. Laws 832 c f., Epist. vii. 326 a ; 
B}'ron, apud Arnold, Essays in Crit. ii. p. 195 "I have 
simplified my politics into an utter detestation of all existing 
governments." 

This passage, Apol. 31 e ff. and Gorg. 521-522 may be con- 
sidered Plato's apology for not engaging in politics. Cf. 
J. V. Novak, Platon u. d. Rhetorik, p. 495 (Schleiermacher, 
Einl. z. Gorg. pp. 15 f.), Wilamowitz, Platon, i. 441-442 
" Wer kann hicr die Klage iiber das eigene Los uberhoren ?" 

There is no probability that, as an eminent scholar has 
maintained, the Republic itself was intended as a programme 
of practical politics for Athens, and that its failure to win 
popular opinion is the chief cause of the disappointed tone 

52 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

case of Theages all other conditions were at hand 
for his backsUding from philosophy, but his sickly 
habit of body keeping him out of politics holds him 
back. My own case, the di\ine sign," is hardly 
worth mentioning — for I suppose it has happened to 
few or none before me. And those who have been 
of this little company '' and have tasted the sweetness 
and blessedness of this possession and who have also 
come to understand the madness of the multitude 
sufficiently and have seen that there is nothing, if I 
may say so, sound or right in any present pohtics,*^ and 
that there is no ally with whose aid the champion 
of justice'' could escape destruction, [but that he 
would be as a man who has fallen among wild beasts,* 
unwilhng to share their misdeeds' and unable to hold 
out singly against the savagery of all, and that he 
would thus, before he could in any way benefit his 

of Plato's later wTitings. Cf. Erwin Wolff in Jaeger's Neue 
Phil. Untersuchungen, Heft 6, Platos Apologie, pp. 31-33, 
who argues that abstinence from politics is proclaimed in the 
Apology before the Gorgias and that the same doctrine in 
the seventh Epistle absolutely proves that the Apology is 
Plato's own. 

Cf. also Theaet. 173 c ff., Hipp. Maj. 281 c, Euthydem, 
306 B, Xen. Mem. i. 6. 15. 

•* Cf. supra 368 b, Apol. 32 e ei . . . i^oriBoiv roh SiKaiois 
and 32 a fiaxovfJ-evov vtrip roc SiKaiov. 

* Cf, Pindar, 01. i. 64. For the antithetic juxtaposition 
rf. also eiy irdo-if below ; see too 520 b, 374 a, Menex. 241 b, 
Pkaedr. 243 c. Laws 906 d, etc. 

More in the Utopia (Morley, Ideal Commonwealths, p. 84) 
paraphrases loosely from memory what he calls " no ill simile 
by which Plato set forth the unreasonableness of a philo- 
sopher's meddling with government." 

' Cf. Democrates fr. 38, Diels ii.' p. 73 KaXbv fiev rdp 
dSiK^oifTa Kw\i-€iv ft 8f fxri, firj ^vvaSiKeiv, " it is well to prevent 
anyone from doing wrong, or else not to join in wrong- 
doing." 

53 



PLATO 

': noXiv ^ <f)iXovs ovfjaai 7Tpoa7ToX6fX€vos ai^co^eAi^S' 

avTO) T€ /cat TOLS d'AAot? O.V yevoLTO — ravra Travra 

Xoyiafjicp Xa^cbv rjavx^av ex^JV /cat ra avrov vrpctT- 

I Tcov, OLOv iv ;^et/i,C(jvi Kovioprov /cat ^aAT^? vtto 

I TTvevfj-aros (f)€pofievov vtto reix^ov aTToaTOLS, opcvv 

f rovs dXXovs KaraTTLfXTrXa/jLevovs dvofjitas dyaTra, et 

i E TTj) avros Kadapos dSt/cta? re /cat dvoaicov epycov 

Tov T€ ivddBe ^Lov ^Lcoaerai /cat rr^v dTToXXayqv 

avrov jxerd KaXrjg eATrtSo? iXecos re /cat evjxevrjs 

drraXXd^eraL. 'AAAd rot, t^ 8' os, ov rd iXdxi-(^ra 

497 dv hiaTTpa^dpievos dTraXXdrrotro. OvSe ye, €L7tov, 

rd fxeytara, jirj rvxd)v noXiretag TrpoarjKovarrjs' ev 

ydp TTpoarjKOvar] avros re jxdXXov av^r^aerai. /cat 

fxerd rdJv ISicov rd Koivd aojaet. 

XI. To p.ev ovv rrjs ^iXoaocj^ias , c5v eveKa 8ta- 
^oXrjV etXrj^e /cat on ov St/cato)?, efiol {xev So/cet 
fxerptajs elprjaOai, el firj er dXXo Xeyeis ri cry. 
'AAA' ouSeV, rj 8' OS, en Xeyco Trepl rovrov dAAd 
rrjv TTpoai]Kovaav avrfj riva rd)v vvv Xeyeis ttoXl- 
B reLOJv; Oj33' rjvnvovv, eiTTOV, dAAd rovro /cat 



" Maximus of Tyre 21. 20 comments, " Show me a safe 
wall." See vStallbaum ad loc. for references to this passage 
in later antiquity. Cf. Heracleit. fr. 44., Diels' i. 67, J. 
Stenzel, Platon der Erzieher, p. 114, Bryce, Studies in 
History and Jurisprudence^ p. 33, Renan, Souvenirs, xviii., 
P. E. More, Shelburm Essays, iii. pp. 280-281. Cf. also 
Epist. vii. 331 u, Eurip, Ion 598-601. 

* Cf. supra Vol. I. on 331 a, infra 621 c-d. Marc. 
Aurel. xii. 36 and vi. 30 in fine. See my article " Hope " in 
Hastings's Encyclopaedia of Relic/ion and Ethics. 

" Cf. Aristot. Eth. JVic. 1094 b 9 tieii^df ye /cat reXewrepoK 
TO TTJs iriXewf (paiviTai. kclI Xafieii' /cat (Tw^eiv, " j'et the good of 

54 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

friends or the state come to an untimely end without 
doinfif any good to himself or others. — for all these 
reasons I say the philosopher remains quiet, minds 
his own affair, and, as it were, standing aside under 
shelter of a wall** in a storm andblast of dust and sleet 
and seeing others filled full of lawlessness, is content 
if in any way he may keep himself free from iniquity 
and unholy deeds through this life and take his 
departure with fair hope,^ serene and well content 
when the end comes." " Well," he said, " that is no 
very slight thing to have achieved before taking his 
departure." " He would not have accomplished any 
very great thing either,*^ " I replied, " if it were not his 
fortune to live in a state adapted to his nature. In 
such a state only will he himself rather attain his full 
stature"* and together with his own preserve the 
common weal. 

XI. " The causes and the injustice of the calumnia- 
tion of philosophy, I think, have been fairly set forth, 
unless you have something to add.* " " No," he said, 
" I have nothing further to offer on that point. But 
which of our present governments do you think is 
suitable for philosophy } " f None whatever," I 
said ; ' ' but the very ground of my complaint is that no 

the state seems a grander and more perfect thing both to 
attain and to secure " (tr. F. H. Peters). 

■* For av^Tjcrerai cf. Theaet. 163 c Iva. koX av^dvrj, and 
Newman, Aristot. Pol. i. p. 68 " As the Christian is said to 
be complete in Christ so the individual is said by Aristotle 
to be complete in the ttoXis," Spencer, Data of Ethics, xv. 
" Hence it is manifest that we must consider the ideal man 
as existing in the ideal social state." Cf. also infra 592 a-b, 
590 A-c and Introd. Vol. I. p. xxvii. 

* An instance of Socrates' Attic courtesy. Cf. 430 b, 
Cratyl 427 n, Theaet. 183 c, Gorg. 513 c, Phaedr. 235 a. 
But in Gorg. t62 c it is ironical and perhaps in Hipp. 
J/aJ. 29lA. 

55 



PLATO 

eTTaiTicoixaiy ix-qhefjiiav a^iav elvat. rcov vvv /cara- 

araatv TToXecos (f)LXoa6(f)ov ^ucrecos"*! Sio /cat arpi- 

^eadai re koL aXXoiovadai avrr^v, woTrep ^eviKOv 

anepixa ev yfj aXXr) aTreLpofxevov i^LrrjXov els to 

' i7TLX<^P^ov ^tAet Kparovfievov levai, ovro) Kal 

TOVTO TO yevos vvv fiev ovk tax^i'V ttjv avrov 

Svvafiiv, dAA' els dXXorptov rjdos eKTrtTTreiv el 8e 

C ATji/rerat rrjv dptarrjv iroXiTeiav, oiOTrep koX (xvto 

aptarov eari, rore SrjXcocreL, on rovro pcev tco ovti 

deZov rjv, TO. Se ctAAa drdpajTrLva, rd re tcov (f)vae(x)v 

/cat TCOV eTnrrjhevpidTOJV . hrjXos St) ovv el on fJLeTO, 

TOVTO ep-qaei Tt? avTT) rj TToAtreta. Ovk eyvcos, 

e<f)rj' ov yap tovto ep,eXXov, dXX el avrrj, rjv rjfxeZs 

hieXiqXvdapiev olKc^ovTes ttjv ttoXiv ^ dXXrj. Ta 

fxev dXXa, rjV S' eyw, avTT]- tovto 8e auro epp-qOr) 

fjiev /cat Tore, OTt Seijaot tl del evelvai ev tjj voXet, 

D Aoyov exov ttjs TToXiTeias tov avTov ovTrep /cat 

CTj) o vofioOeT-qs excov tovs vofiovs eTideis. 'Ep- 

prjdrj ydp, e(f)rj. \ 'AAA' ovx tKavcos, eiTTOV, eSrjXcodri, 

^o^cp (Lv vp.ets dvTLXap.^av6p.evoL SeSrjXcoKaTe 

fiaKpdv /cat x^'-XeTrrjv avTov ttjv diroSeL^iv enel /cat 

TO XoiTTov ov TrdvTOJS^ paarov SieXdelv. To ttoZov; 

\ TiVa TpoTTOv /Lterap^etpi^o/xeVry TToAt? (f)iXoao(f)Lav ov 

I StoAetrai. to. ydp Br] pueydXa TrdvTa ertiaifiaXrj, /cat 

J * TrdjTwy AFDM : Trdi'Twi' conj. Bekker. 

° K-ardcrrao-is = constitution in both senses. Cf. 414 a, 425 d, 
464 A, 493 A, 426 c, 547 b. So also in the Laws. The word 
is rare elsewhere in Plato. 

* For i^LTTjXov cf. Critias 121 a. 

" This need not be a botanical error. In any case the 
meaning is plain. Cf. Tim. 51 b with my emendation. 

** For the idiom cf. avrb Sel^et Phileb. 20 c, with Stallbaiim's 
note, Theaet. 200 e, Hipp. Maj. 288 b, Aristoph. Wasps 
56 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

polity " of to-day is worthy of the philosophic nature. 
AThis is just the cause of its perversion and alteration ; 
as a foreign seed sown in an alien soil is wont to 
be overcome and die out *" into the native growth,"^ 
so this kind does not preserve its own quality but 
falls away and degenerates into an alien type. But 
if ever it finds the best polity as it itself is the 
best, then will it be apparent <* that this was in truth 
divine and all the others human in their natures and 
practices. Obviously then you are next going to ask 
what is this best form of government." " Wrong," 
he said* ; " I was going to ask not that but whether 
it is this one that we have described in our establish- 
ment of a state or another." " In other respects it 
is this one," said I ; " but there is one special further 
point that we mentioned even then, namely that 
there would always have to be resident in such a 
state an element having the same conception of its 
constitution that you the lawgiver had in framing 
its laws.^" "That was said," he replied. /"But it 
was not sufficiently explained," I said, " from fear 
of those objections on your part which have shown 
that the demonstration of it is long and difficult. 
And apart from that the remainder of the exposition 
is by no means easy.^ " " Just what do you mean ? " 
" The manner in which a state that occupies itself 
with philosophy can escape destruction. For all 
great things are precarious and, as the proverb truly 

994, Frogs 1361, etc., Pearson on Soph. fr. 388. Cf. avrb 
ai]fxave7, Eurip. Bacch. 476, etc. 

• Plato similarly plays in dramatic fashion with the order 
of the dialogue in 523 b, 528 a, 451 b-c, 458 b. 

' Cf. supra on 412 a and What Plato Said, p. 647 on 
Laws 962 ; infra 502 d. 

' Cf. Soph. 244 c. See critical note. 

57 



PLATO 

R TO Xeyofxevov ra KaXa to) ovti ^^aAeTra. AAA 
I E ofxcos, €.<f)7], Xa^eroj reXos rj dTToSei^is tovtov 
cf)av€pov yevofxivov. \0v ro [xr) ^ovXeadai, rjv 8 
iyco, dXX eLTTep, to firj SvvaadaL Sia/ccoAucref 
TTapdiv 8e TTiv y* i/jLrjv irpodvpiiav etcret. (jkottci he 
KoX VVV, cos TTpoOvfJLOJS Kal TTapaKLvhwevTiKcos 
fxeXXoj Xdyeiv, oti TovvavTLOv rj vvv Set tov eTrtrrj- 
SevfiaTos tovtov ttoXlv dnTeadaL. UdJs; Nw [xev, 
498 171^ S' ^y<JO, ol Kal dTTTOfievoi, fieipaKia ovTa dpTt e/c 
TTalhoiv TO fxeTa^v olKovofxias Kal ;;^p7y/i,aTt(T)u.oi5 
nXr^cndaavTcs avTov toj )(aX€TTOjTdTcp drraXXaT- 
TOVTai, ol ^iXoGO(f)d)TaTOL TTOLOvfievoL- Xeyco Se 
XaXcTTCoTaTov TO TTepl Tovs Xoyovs' fv Se Ta> e-rreiTa, 
idv Kal aAAcuv tovto TtpaTTovTOjv vapaKaXovfJievoi 
edeXaxjLV dKpoaTal yiyveadai, jxeydXa rjyovvTai, 
Trdpepyov olofievoi avTO Seiv TTpaTTCLV npos Se to 
yrjpas cktos 817 tlvcdv oXtyojv dTToa^evvvvTai ttoXv 
B fxdXXov TOV *Hpa/<rAetretoi» rjXiov, oaov aiJ^tj ovk 
i^dTTTOvTai. Aet Se 770)9; ^^'^- Hav TovvavTiov 
fxeipdKia fX€v ovra Kal TratSa? fxeipaKicLSr) TratSetav 

" So Adam. Others take t(^ 6vtl with x'l^fTd as part of 
the proverb. Cf. 435 c, Crat. 384. a-b with schol. 

* For the idiomatic dXX' elirep cf. Parmen, 150 b, Euthydem. 
296 B, Thompson on Meno, Excursus 2, pp. 258-264, Aristot. 
An. Post. 91 b 33, Eth. Nic. 1 101 a 12, 1 136 b 25, 1 155 b 30, 
1168 a 12, 1174 a 27, 1180 b 27, Met. 1028 a 24, 1044 a 11, 
Rhet. 1371 a 16. 

' What Plato here deprecates Callicles in the Oorgias 
recommends, 484 c-d. For the danger of premature study 
of dialectic cf. 537 d-e ff. Cf. my Idea of Education in 
Plato's Republic, p. 11. Milton develops the thought with 
characteristic exuberance. Of Education : " They present 
their young unmatriculated novices at first coming with the 
most intellective abstractions of logic and metaphysics . . . 
58 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

says, fine tilings are hard."" "All the same," he said, 
■' our exposition must be completed by making this 
plain." I " It will be no lack of -svill," I said, " but if 
anytliing,* a lack of ability, that would prevent that. 
But you shall observe for yourself my zeal. And note 
again how zealouslv and recklessly I am prepared to 
-ay that the state ought to take up this pursuit in 
just the reverse of our present fashion.*^ " "In what 
way ? " " At present," said I, " those who do take 
it up are youths, just out of boyhood,** who in the 
interval * before they engage in business and money- 
making approach the most difficult part of it, and 
then drop it — and these are regarded forsooth as 
the best exemplars of philosophy. By the most 
difficult part I mean discussion. ( In later life they 
think they have done much if, when invited, they 
deign to hsten^^ to the philosophic discussions of others. 
That sort of thing they think should be by-work. 
And towards old age,^ %\'ith few exceptions, their light 
is quenched more completely than the sun of Hera- 
cleitus,'' inasmuch as it is never rekindled." " And 
what should they do ? " he said. " Just the reverse. 
While they are lads and boys they should occupy 

to be tossed and turmoiled with their unballasted wits n 
fathomless and unquiet deeps of controversv," etc. 

^ Cf. 386 A, 395 c. 413 c, 485 d, 519 a, Demosth. xxi. 154, 
Xen. Ages. 10. 4, Ari-,tot. Eth. Nic. 1 103 b 24, 1 104 b 1 1 , Isoc, 
XV. 289. • Cf. 450 c. 

' Cf. 475 D, Isoc. xii. 270 dXX' ov5' dWov deiKvvovroi «rai 
Tov-fjaafTOi 7jdf\r}<rev dArpoarns yevfffdat, " would not even be 
willing to listen to one worked out and submitted bv another " 
(tr. Norlin in L.C.L.). 

» Cf. Antiphon's devotion to horsemanship in the Par- 
menides, 126 c. For ttoos to 7^pas cf. 552 d. Laws 653 a. 

* Diels i.» p. 78, fr. 6. Cf. Aristot. Metfor. ii. 2. 9, 
Lucretius v. 662. 

59 



PLATO 

Kal <j)i\oao<fiLav /xera^^etpi^ea^at, rchv re acofidrcDV, 
iv (I> ^Xaardvei re Kal avSpovraL, ev fidXa im- 
fieXeXadai, VTrrjpeaiav (jiiXoao(f)ia KTCOixevovs' Trpo- 
'Covcrrjs 8e rrjs -qXiKtag, ev fj r) ipvxrj TeXeiovadai 
dpx^Tai, eTTneLveiv rd CKeivrjs yvfxvdata' orav Se 

C XTJyr] fiev rj pcofxr], ttoXitikwv Se Kal arpareicuv 
e/CTo? ylyvriraiy rore rjSr] d(f)eTovs vefxeadai Kat, 
fjLTjBev dXXo TTpdrreiv, o tl fxr) irdpepyov, rovs 
fieXXovras evSaipLovajs ^icoaecrdaL Kal reXevTi]- 
aavras to) ^lco to) ^€^Lcop,eva} rrjv cKel fiotpav 
CTTcar-qaeiv Trpeirovaav. 

W\/'Q.S dXrjdibs /X06 hoKels, e(f)7], Xeyetv ye 
TTpodv/jicos, c5 HcoKpares' of/xat /jLevTOi rovs ttoXXovs 
rcov aKovovrajv TrpoOvpiorepov en avTirelveiv oi)S' 
ottojgtiovv TTeiaojJLevovs , aTTO Qpaavjjidxov dp- 
^afxevovs. Mr] Std^aXXe, 'qv 8' iyco, efie Kal 

D Qpacrvfiaxov dpri cf>LXovs yeyovoras, ovde irpo rov 
exdpovs ovras. rreipas yap ovSev dvrjaofiev, ecos 
dv -q 7T€Laa>fxev Kal rovrov /cat rovs aXXovs, tj 
rrpovpyov n TTOL'qacoiJ.ev els eKeZvov rov ^iov, orav 
avOis yevofievoi rols roiovrois evrvxoidi Xoyois. 

" Cf. 410 c and What Plato Said, p. 496 on Protag. 
326 B-c. 

* Like cattle destined for the sacrifice. A favourite figure 
with Plato. Cf. Laws 635 a, Protag. 320 a. It is used literally 
in Critias 119 d. 

' Cf. infra 540 a-b, Newman, vVristot. Pol. i. pp. 329-330. 
Wilamowitz, Platon, ii. 207-208, fancies that 498 c to 502 a 
is a digression expressing Plato's personal desire to be the 
philosopher in Athenian politics. 

<* A half-playful anticipation of the doctrine of immortality 
reserved for Bk. x. 608 d if . It involves no contradiction 
and justifies no inferences as to the date and composition of 
the Republic. Cf. Gomperz iii. 335. 
60 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

themselves with an education and a culture suitable 
to youth, and while their bodies are growing to man- 
hood take right good care of them, thus securing a 
basis and a support" for the intellectual hfe. But 
with the advance of age, when the soul begins to 
attain its maturity, they should make its exercises 
more severe, and when the bodily strength declines 
and they are past the age of political and military 
ervice, then at last they should be given free range 
' f the pasture '' and do nothing but philosophize,"' 
except incidentally, if they are to live happily, and, 
when the end has come, crown the life they have lived 
\nth a consonant destiny in that other world." 

XII. " You really seem to be very much in earnest, 
Socrates," he said ; " yet I think most of your hearers 
are even more earnest in their opposition and will not 
be in the least convinced, beginning with Thrasy- 
machus." " Do not try to breed a quarrel between 
me and Thrasymachus, who have just become friends 
and were not enemies before either. For we will 
-pare no effort until we either convince him and the 
rest or achieve something that will profit them when 
they come to that life in which they will be born 
again ** and meet with such discussions as these." " A 

Cf. Emerson, Experience, in fine, " which in his passage 
into new worlds he will carry with him." Bayard Taylor 
(American Men of Letters, p. 113), who began to study 
Greek late in life, remarked, "Oh, but I expect to use it 
in the other world." Even the sober positivist Mill says 
Theism, pp. 249-250) " The truth that life is short and art 
^ long is from of old one of the most discouraging facts of 
ur condition: this hoj^e admits the possibility that the art 
mployed in improving and beautifying the soul itself may 
avaU for good in some other life even when seemingly use- 
less in this." 

61 



PLATO 

El? afxiKpov y' , ehrj, )(p6vov etprjKag. Et? ovSev 
fiev ovv, e(f)'rjv, ws ye Trpos rov anavra. ro 
fievTOi pLTj TTeWeardai, rot? Xeyop^evois rovs ttoXXovs 
uavfjLa ovSev ov yap ttcottot^ ethov yevop-evov ro 

E vvv Xeyopievov , aAAo. ttoXv p,dXXov roiavT arra 
p-qp-ara e^eTTiVr/Ses' dAAT^Aot? (hpoicopiva, dAA' 
OVK avo rov avrofidrov waTrep vvv ^vp,7T€a6vra' 
avopa Se aperfj TTapLaa>p,€vov Kal (hpuoicopivov 
P'^xpt' rov Svvarov reXecog cpyco re Kal X6ya>, 
ovvaarevovra iv ttoAci irepq. roiavrrj, ov rroiTTore. 
499 eiopoLKaoLV ovre era ovre TrXetovs' t] otei; OuSa- 
p.a)s ye, Oi3Se ye av Xoywv, cS /xafcdpte, KaXaJv re 
Kai eXevdepcov iKavcZg eTrrjKooi yeyovaaiv, otcov 
C,7]r€LV p.ev ro dXi]6€s ^vvrerapevojs eK Travros 
rpoTTov rov yvdjvai xdpiv, rd he Kopi/jd re Kal 
epiariKa /cat /trjSa^oae dXXoae reivovra t) Trpo? 
ho^av Kat epiv Kal ev SiKats Kal iv Ihiais avvov- 
aiats" TToppojdev aarral^opievcov . Ovhe rovrojv, e(f>'r]. 

B Tovrcjv roL ;\;dpii', rjv 8' eyco, Kal ravra irpoopco- 
p,evoL 7jp,€LS rore Kal BeBiores op,o}g eXeyopev, vtto 

" For ets here rf. Klaydes on Clouds 1180, Herod, vii. 46, 
Eurip. Heracleidae 270. 

* Cf. supra on 486 a. See too Plut. Cons. Apol. 17. 111c 
" a tKousand, yes, ten thousand years are onlj' an Aipio-ros 
point, nav, the smallest part of a point, as Simonides says." 
Cf. also Lyra Graeca (L.C.L.), ii. p. 338, Anth. Pal. x. 78. 

" yefSfxefov . . . \(y6iJ.evov. It is not translating to make no 
attempt to reproduce Plato's parody of " polyphonic prose." 
The allusion here to Isocrates and the Gorgian figure of 
irapiaw<ns and irapo/j.oi(jo<ns is unmistakable. The subtlety of 
Plato's style treats the " accidental " occurrence of a Gorgian 
figure in his own writing as a symbol of the difference 
between the artificial style and insincerity of the sophists and 
the serious truth of his own ideals. 
62 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

brief time" your forecast contemplates," he said. 
" Nay, nothing at all," I replied, " as compared with 
eternity.'' However, the unwillingness of the multi- 
tude to believe what you say is nothing surprising. 
For of the thing here spoken they have never 
beheld a token, •= but only the forced and artificial 
chiming of word and phrase, not spontaneous and 
accidental as has happened here. But the figure of 
a man * equilibrated ' and ' assimilated ' to virtue's self 
perfectly, so far as may be, in word and deed, and 
holding rule in a city of like quahty, that is a thing 
they have never seen in one case or in many. Do you 
think they have ? " " By no means." " Neither, 
my dear fellow, have they ever seriously incUned to 
hearken to fair and free discussions whose sole en- 
deavour was to search out the truth '* at any cost for 
knowledge's sake, and which dwell apart and salute 
from afar * all the subtleties and cavils that lead to 
naught but opinion ^ and strife in court-room and in 
private talk." " They have not," he said. " For 
this cause and foreseeing this, we then despite our 
fears ^ declared under compulsion of the truth * that 

Cf. Isoc. X. 18 Xeyoixevo^ . . . yeybfxeixK, What Plato Said, 
p. 544 on Symp. 185 c, F. Reinhardt, De Tsocratis aemulis, 
p. 39, Lucilius, bk. v. init. " hoc ' nolueris et debueris ' te 
si minu' delectat, quod Texvlov Isocrateium est," etc. 

■* As the Platonic dialectic does iPhileb. 58 c-d, cf. What 
Plato Said, p. 611) in contrast with the rhetorician, the 
lawyer (Theaet. 172 d-e) and the eristic {Euthydem. 272 b, 
Hipp. Maj. 288 d). 

* Cf. Eurip. Hippol. 102, Psalm cxxxviii. 6 "the proud 
he knoweth afar off." 

' Cf. Phaedrus 253 d with Theaetet. 18T c, and Unity 
of Plato's Thought, p. 48. 

» Cf. on 489 A. 

» Cf. Aristot. Met. 984 b 10, 984 a 19. 

63 



PLATO 

Td\y]9ovs 'qvayKaafxevoi, on ovre ttoXls ovre ttoXi- 
reta ovhe y' avrfp ofxoicos fit] ttotc yiinqrac reXeos, 
TTpiv av rois <^tAoCTo^ois' rovrois Tot? oXiyois Koi 
ov TTOVTjpoTs, dxp'']crTois Se vvv K€KXr]p,€Vots, di'dyKT] 
ris e/c rvxf]S trepi^dXri, etre ^ovXovr at etre jxt] tto- 
XeuiS iTTifxeXrjdrjvai, /cat rfj ttoXcl Kar-qKooi yeveadai, 
] T] TU)v VVV ev SwaaTelais ■^ ^aaiXetaLS ovtcov 

C vUoLV ^ aVTOLS €K TIVOS deLaS iTTLTTVOiaS dXr]dl,V7]S 

<l>LXoao<^La<s dXrjdivog epcos ijJiTrearj. tovtcov Be 
TTorepa yeveadac •»} djXi^oTepa (Ls dpa iarlv dSvva- 
rovy iydj fiev ovhiva ^r^piL e^^iv Xoyov. ovtco yap 
dv rjpLeis hiKaiois KarayeXchpieda, cos dXXcos evxdcs 
opLota XeyovTCs. iq ovx ovrcos; Outco?. Et roiwv 
aKpoLs els cl)iXocrocf)Lav ttoXcws tis dvdyKrj ein- 
pieXrjdrjvai r} yeyovev ev ra> diTeipcp rep rrapeXr]- 
XvdoTi XP^^V 'H '^'^^ ^^^ eariv ev tlvl ^ap^apiKco 

D TOTTip, TTOppOi TTOV CKTOS OVTL Trjs TJpLeTepaS €77- 

6if/€0)s, •^ /cat eTTeira yev-qaeTai, Trepl tovtov 
eroipLoi Tip Xoycp hiapidx^odai, (I)s yeyovev -q 
elprjpievr) TToXireia /cat eo-rt /cat yevrioerai ye, orav 
avrr] r) pLovaa TToXecos eyKparrjs yevTjrai. ov yap 
dSvvaTOS yeveaOai, ou8' rjp,eLs dSvvara Xeyopuev 
Xo-Xend Se /cat Trap' r)pL.a)v opLoXoyetrai,. Kat epLoi, 
e(f>'r], ovTOJ So/cet. Tot? he ttoXXoZs, r)V 8 eyw, 

" Cf. Laws 747 e. But we must not attribute personal 
superstition to Plato. See What Plato Said, index, s.v. 
Superstition. 

* Cf, Laws 711 D, Thuc. vi. 24. 3; so iv. 4. 1 opfir] iviireae. 

' We might say, "talking like vain Utopians or idle 
idealists." The scholiast says, p. 348, tovto Kal Kev-qv (paai 
fjLaKaplav, Cf. supra. Vol. I. on 458 a, and for evxai on 450 d, 
and Novotny on Epist. vii. 331 d. 

" Cf. Laws 782 a, 678 a-b, and What Plato Said, p. 627 on 
64 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

neither city nor polity nor man either will ever be 
perfected until some chance compels this uncorrupted 
remnant of philosophers, who now bear the stigma of 
uselessness, to take charge of the state whether they 
wish it or not, and constrains the citizens to obey them, 
\or else until by some divine inspiration" a genuine 
passion for true philosophy takes possession * either 
of the sons of the men now in power and sovereignty 
or of themselves. ^To affirm that either or both of 
these things cannot possibly come to pass is , I say , quite 
unreasonable. Only in that case could we be justly 
ridiculed as uttering things as futile as day-dreams are." 
Isnotthatso?" "Itis." '^If, then, thebest philosophi- 
cal natures have ever been constrained to take charge 
of the state in infinite time past,** or now are in some 
barbaric region * far beyond our ken, or shall hereafter 
be, we are prepared to maintain our contention ^ that 
the constitution we have described has been, is, or 
will be' reahzed'' when this philosophic Muse has 
taken control of the state.* It is not a thing impossible 
to happen, nor are we speaking of impossibilities. 
That it is difficult we too admit." " I also think so," 
he said. "But the multitude — are you going to say ? — 

Laws 676 a-b ; also Isoc. Panath. 204-205, seven hundred 
years seemed a short time. * Cf. Phaedo 78 a. 

' For the ellipsis of the first person of the verb cf. Parmen. 
137 c, Laches 180 a. The omission of the third person is 
very frequent. 

» Cf. 492 E, Laws 71 1 e, 739 c, 888 e. 

* Cf. Vol. I. Introd. p. xxxii, and ibid, on 472 b, and What 
Plato Said, p. 564, also infra 540 d, Newman, Aristot. Pol. 
L p. 377. 

* This is what I have called the ABA style. Cf. 599 e, 
Apol. 20 c, Phaedo 57 b. Laches 185 a, Protag. 344 c, Theaet, 
185 A, 190 B, etc. It is nearly what Riddeil calls binary 
structure. Apology, pp. 204-217. 

VOL. II F 65 



PLATO 

OTL ovK av 8o/cet, epelg; "lacog, €(f)rj. ^Q. jxaKapie, 
E rjv 8' eyco, fjcr] Trary ovtco rcbv ttoXXow Karriyopei, 
dXXotav^ roL ho^av e^ovaiv, iav avTols jxr) 0tAo- 
veiKojv dXXa Trapafivdovixevos Kal aTToXvofxevos ttjP 
rrjs (fjiXofiad las Sia^oXrjv evdeiKvurj ovs Xeyeis tovs 
(f)LXoa6<f)ov<: , Kal hiopit^jj uiavep dpri tt^v re (jyvaiv 
500 avrayv Kal rrjv imr'qSeva'iv, Iva p,rj rjycovrai ae 
XeyeLV ovs avroi OLOirat. iq Kal iav ovto) deaJvrai, 
dXXoiav T ov^ (fj-qaeis avrovs So^av X-^ipeadai koI 
dXXa aTTOKpLvelaOaL ; t] oiet TLvd )(aXeTTaiveLV ro) pur] 
XO-Xerrcp r^ <f>6ov€lv rip pLTj (f)dov€pa), dcf)9ov6v re /cat 
vpdov ovra; iyu) pcev yap ae 7Tpo(/)ddaas Xeyco, 
on ev oXiyois rialv rjyoupiai aAA' ovk ev rw TrXrjdei, 
)(aXeTTrjv ovrco (f)VGLV yiyveadai. Kai eyd) apceXei,, 
B e^rj, ^vvoiop,ai. Ovkovv Kal avro rovro ^vvoUi, 
rov x^XeTTCos rrpos <^iXoao<f)iav rovs ttoXXov? Sia- 
Keiadai CKeivovs alriovs elvaL rovs e^ix)dev ov 
TTpoorJKOv eTretCTKeKcopLaKoras , Xoihopovpievovs re 
avrols^ Kal (fnXaTTexd^Qp-ovcos exovras Kal del Trepi 

1 iXKoLav AD, dW olav F, a\X o'lav M. 

* t' 01^ Baiter : rot mss. Burnet brackets the sentence. 

' aiiTois Burnet and Adam, avrot^ Ast, Stallbaum, Jowett, 
and Campbell. 

" It is uncritical to find "contradictions" in variations of 
mood, emphasis, and expression that are broadly human and 
that no writer can avoid. Any thinker may at one moment 
and for one purpose defy popular oj)inion and for another 
conciliate it ; at one time affirm that it doesn't matter what 
the ignorant people think or say, and at another urge that 
prudence bids us be discreet. So St. Paul who says {Gal. i. 
10) " Do I seek to please men ? for if I yet pleased men I 
should not be the servant of Christ," says also {Bom. xiv. 16) 
" Let not then your good be evil spoken of," Cf. also What 
Plato Said, p. 616 on Laws 950 b. 

* A recurrence to etymological meaning, C/. ddvfiov 

66 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

does not think so," said I. " That may be," he said. 
" My dear fellow," said I, " do not thus absolutely 
condemn the multitude." They will surelv be of 
another mind if in no spirit of contention but sooth- 
ingly and endeavouring to do away with the dispraise 
of learning you point out to them whom you mean 
by philosophers, and define as we recently did their 
nature and their pursuits so that the people may not 
suppose you to mean those of whom they are thinking. 
Or even if they do look at them in that way, are you 
still going to deny that they will change their opinion 
and answer differently ? Or do you think that anyone 
is ungentle to the gentle or grudging to the ungrudging 
if he himself is ungrudging ^ and mild ? I will antici- 
pate you and reply that I think that only in some 
few and not in the mass of mankind is so ungentle or 
harsh a temper to be found." " And I, you may be 
assured," he said, " concur." " And do vou not also 
concur <= in this very point that the blame for this harsh 
attitude of the many towards philosophy falls on that 
riotous crew who have burst in <* where they do not 
belong, wrangling with one another,* filled with spite ^ 
411 B, Laws 888 a, ei'^i-xi'as Laves 791 c, Thompson on Meno 
78 E, Aristot. Topics 1 12 a 32-38, Eurip. Heracleidaf 730 
auKftaXCK, Shakes. Rich. III. v. v. 37 " Reduce these bloody 
days again." 

' For a similar teasing or playful repetition of a word <•/. 
517 c, 394 B, 449 c, 470 b-c. 

* For the figure of the /ci-Mos or revel rout cf. Theaet. 1 84 a, 
Aesch. Ap. 1 ] 89, Eurip. Ion 1 197, and, with a' variation of the 
image, Virgil, Aen. i. 148 and Tennyson, "Lucretius": 

As crowds that in an hour 
Of civic tumult jam the doors. 

• C/. Adam ad loc. and "Wilamowitz, Platon, ii. 121. 

' Isoc. Ant id. 260 seems to take this term to himself; c/. 
Panath. 249, Peacf 65, Ly^ias xxiv. 24 roKvrpa'yiJuuv eifd xal 
Opaais (fat tpikarexOrj/xwy, Demosth. xxiv. 6. 

67 



PLATO 

dvdp(x)7TU)v Tovs Xoyovs TToiovfievovg, 'qKiara <j>i\o- 
ao(f)La rrpenov TTOiovvras; IToAu y', ecfyrj. 

XIII. OuSe yap ttov, c5 'ASeifiavre, axoXrj tco 
y€ d)S aX-qdajs Trpos tols ovai Trjv Sidvoi-av exovTi 

C KOLTOJ ^XeTTCLV cls dvOpcjTTOJV TTpayjxaTeLas, Kal 
fiaxofjuevov avrols (f)96vov re Kal Sucr/xei'etaj ip,- 
TTLTrXaadai, dXX els rerayfieva drra Kal Kara 
ravrd del e^ovra opwvrag /cat dea>p.evovs ovt 
dSiKOVvra ovt' dSLKOvp,eva vtt' dXX'qXojv, Koap-o) Se 
Trdvra /cat Kara Xoyov exovra, ravra p-Lp^eladaL 
re Kal 6 n pudXiara d(f)op.oLovadaL. ^ otei rivd 
p,rixavr]v elvai, orw rig opuXeX dyapievos, p-y] 
piipLeladai eKeivo; 'ASwarov, e^^j. Qeico Srj Kal 

D Koafuo) 6 ye (f)LX6aocf>os opaXcov Koapnos re /cat 
deZo'S els to hvvarov dvdpcoTTcp ytyverai' Sta^oXrj 8 
ev TraCTi ttoXXt]. YlavrdTraai p,ev ovv. *Av ovv ris, 

" i.e. gossip. Cf. Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1125 a .5 odd' dvdpuiro- 
\6yos, Epictetus ili. 16. 4. Cf. also Phileb. 59 b, Theaet. 
173 D, 174 c. 

* Cf. supra on 486 a, also Phileb. 58 d, 59 a, Tim. 90 d, 
and perhaps Tim. 47 a and Phaedo 79. 

This passage is often supposed to refer to the ideas, and 
eVei in 500 d shows that Plato is in fact there thinking of 
them, though in Rep. 529 a-b ff. he protests against this 
identification. And strictly speaking Kara ravra. aei ^xo^'^^ 
in c would on Platonic principles be true only of the ideas. 
Nevertheless poets and imitators have rightly felt that the 
dominating thought of the passage is the effect on the philo- 
sopher's mind of the contemplation of the heavens. This 
confusion or assimilation is, of course, still more natural 
to Aristotle, who thought the stars unchanging. Cf. Met. 
1063 a 16 ravra 5' aiel Kal fxera^oXris ovdefxids KOtvuivovvra. Cf. 
also Sophocles, Ajax 669 ff., and Shorey in Sneath, Evolution 
of Ethics, pp. 261-263, Dio Chrys. xl. (Teubner ii. p. 199), 

68 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

and always talking about persons," a thing least be- 
fitting philosophy ? " " Least of all, indeed," he 
said. 

XIII. " For surely, Adeimantus, the man whose 
mind is truly fixed on eternal realities * has no leisure 
to turn his eyes downward upon the petty affairs of 
men, and so engaging in strife \\ith them to be filled 
with envy and hate, but he fixes his gaze upon the 
things of the eternal and unchanging order, and 
seeing that they neither wrong nor are \\Tonged bv 
one another, but all abide in harmony as reason bids, 
he \v'ill endeavour to imitate them and, as far as may 
be, to fashion himself in their likeness and assimilate" 
himself to them. Or do you think it possible not to 
imitate the things to which anyone attaches himself 
with admiration r " " Impossible," he said. " Then 
the lover of wisdom associating with the divine order 
will himself become orderly and divine in the measure 
permitted to man.** But calumny ^ is plentiful every- 
where." " Yes, truly." " If, then," I said, " some 

Boethius, Cans. iii. 8 " respicite caeli spatium . . . et 
aliquando desinite vilia mirari," Dante, Purg. 14: 

The heavens call you and o'er your heads revolving 
Reveal the lamps of beauty ever burning ; 
Your eyes are fixed on earth and goods dissolving, 
Wherefore He smites you. He, the all-discerning. 

Cf. Arnold, "A Summer Night," infijie: 

. . . you remain 
A world above man's head to let him see 
How boundless might his soul's horizons be, etc. 

« AipouoiovcTdai suggests the 6fwioj<ns detfi Theaet. 176 b. Cf. 
What Plato Said, p. 578. 

" Cf. on 493 D, and for the idea 383 c. 

• Cf. Hamlet in. i. 141 "thou shalt not escape calumny," 
Bacchylides 12 (13). 202-203 ^pordv 8i fjLWfjios wavTeaai /jl^p 
iarip itr' ipyon. 

69 



PLATO 

elnov, avTO) avdyKt] yevrjTai a €K€l opa fieXerrjaai 
els avOpwTTCov tJOt] Kal tSta Kal drjixoata riddvai, Kat, 
yLTj jjLovov iavTOV TrXdrretv, dpa KaKOV S-qfiLOvpyov 
avTov oiei yev^aeadai aco<f)poavvr]s re Kal StKrato- 
avvrjs Kal ^vfMTrdcrrjs rrjs S-qjjLOTiKrjs aperrjs; 
"HKLorrd ye, rj 8' o?. 'AAA' idv Sr] atadcovTai ol 
E TToAAot, oTi dXrjdrj vepl avrov Xeyo^ev, ;)(;aAe- 
TTOvovai Sr) rots <piXo(j6(f)Oi.s Kal aTncTT'^aovcnv rjfuv 
Xeyovaiv, cos ovk dv rrore dXXcos euSat/xovT^o-ete 
TToXiSy el fXT] avTTjv Siaypdi/jeiav ol ro) deuv rrapa- 
Selyixari ^P'-'V^'^^'' C^ypd(f>OL; Ov ;(;aAe7rav'ouatP', 
501 17 S' OS, edvnep a'iaOiovrai. dXXd S-q riva Xeyeis 
rpoTTOV rrjs Siaypa(f)r]s ; Aa^ovres, rjv 8' eyco, 
coairep TTivaKa ttoXlv re Kal tjOt] dvdpojTTOjv, rtpd)- 
rov fiev KaOapdv TTOirjaeiav dv o ov Trdvv pd8iov' 
dXX* ovv olad' ort rovrio dv evdvs rwv dXXojv 

" The philosopher unwillingly holds office. Cf. on 345 e. 

* iKel is frequently used in Plato of the world of ideas. Cf. 
Phaedrus 250 a, Phoedo 109 e. 

" For the word TrXdrretv used of the lawgiver cf. 377 c, 
Laws 671 c, 712 b, 746 a, 800 b, R^p. 374 a, 377 c, 420 c, 
466 A, 588 c, etc. 

For the idea that the ruler shapes the state according to 
the pattern cf. infra 540 a-b. 

Plato applies the language of the theory of ideas to the 
"social tissue" here exactly as he applies it to the making 
of a tool in the Cratylus 389 c. In both cases there is a 
workman, the ideal pattern and the material in which it is 
more or less perfectly embodied. Such passages are the 
source of Aristotle's doctrine of matter and form. Cf. Met. 
1044 a 25, De part. an. 639 b 25-27, 640 b 24 f., 642 a 10 ff., 
De an. 403 b 3, Zeller, Aristot. (Eng.) i. p. 357. Cf, also ^org. 
503 D-E, Polit. 306 c, 309 d and Unity of Plato's Thought, 
pp. 31-32. Cf. Alcinous, Wiaayt^yy) ii. (Teubner vi. p. 153) 
d Karb. rbv OewfrrjTiKOv ^iov opdrai, ^af Xerijcai et's avOpuiiricv i)0-q. 

^ Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1329 a 21 dpfr^s 8vfiiovpy6v. Cf. also 

70 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

compulsion * is laid upon him to practise stamping on 
the plastic matter of human nature in public and 
private the patterns that he visions there,^ and not 
merely to mould "^ and fashion himself, do you think 
he will prove a poor craftsman ** of sobriety and justice 
and all forms of ordinary civic virtue*? " "By no 
means," he said. " But if the multitude become 
aware that what we are saying of the philosopher is 
true, will they still be harsh with philosophers, and will 
they distrust our statement that no city could ever be 
blessed unless its hneaments were traced ^ by artists 
who used the heavenly model ? " " They will not be 
harsh," he said, " if they perceive that. But tell 
me, what is the manner of that sketch you have in 
mind ? " " They will take the city and the characters 
of men, as they might a tablet, and first wipe it clean — ' 
no easy task. But at any rate you know that this 
would be their first point of difference from ordinary 

1275 b 29 with Newman, Introd. Aristot. Fol. p. 229. Cf. 
395 c drjfiiovpyovs iXevdepias, Theages 125 a 5r]niovpy6v . . . t/js 
ffo<piai, 

* Cf. Laws 968 a xpis rors Sni/Moalan dpfrais, Phaedo 
82 A and supra. Vol. I. on 430 c. Brochard, " La Morale 
de Platen," UAnnee Philosophique, xvi. (1905) p. 12 "La 
justice est appel^e une vertu populaire." This is a little 
misleading if he means that justice itself is " une vertu 
populaire." 

^ For diaypd'pei.av cf. 387 b and Laws 778 a. See also 
Stallbaum ad loc. 

' Cf. Vol. L on 426 d. This is one of the passages that 
may be used or misused to class Plato with the radicals. 
Cf. 541 a, Latcs 736 a-b, Polit. 293 d, Euthyphro 2 d-3 a. 
H. W. Schneider, The Puritan Mind, p. 36, says, " Plato 
claimed that before his Republic could be established the 
adult population must be killed off." 

Cf. however Vol. L Introd. p. xxxix. What Plato Said, 
p. 83, and infra, p. 76, note a on 502 a. 

71 



PLATO 

BieveyKOiev, rw [XTJre IBlcotov fi-qre TrdAeco? e^e- 
Ai^crai dv dt/jaadaL fxrjhe ypdcjiitv vofxovs, Ttpiv r] 
napaXa^eXv Kadapdv rj avrol TToirjaai. Kai 6p6a)s 
y* , €(f)r). OvKovv fxerd ravra otei VTToypdif/aadai, 
dv TO ax^jp-o. rrjs TToAiretas'; Tt p^ijv; "ETretra, 

B olfxat, aTTepyat^opLevoi TTVKvd dv e/carepcacr' (XTro- 
pXeTTocev, irpos re to (f)va€t, StVatov /cat KaXov /cat 
a(jL)(f>pov Kal TTavra rd roiavra Kal Trpog eKetvo av 
TO €V TOLs dvdpojTTOis €p.7roLol€v, ^vp.p,tyvvvr€s Te 
/cai Kepawvvres €K tojv €7nTr]S€vp.dTOJv to av- 
hpeiKeXoVy diT* CKeivov T€Kp,aip6fX€vot, o Srj /cai 
Opurjpos eKaXeaev ev tols dvdpd)7TOis eyyt,yvop,€vov 
deoeiSes re Kal deoetKcXov. 'Opdcos, ^4^'^- Kai to 
p,€v dv, pijuai, e^aX€L(f)OLGv , to he ndXiv eyypa- 

C (f>oi€v, ews o Ti jLtaAtCTTa dvOpcoTreia rjOr] els oaov 
evhex^TUL d€0(f>LXrj TTonjaeiav. KaAAto-TTy yovv dv, 
ecf)!], 7] ypa(f)rj yevono. ' A.p' ovv, rjv 8 iyco, 
7Teidop.ev ttt} eKelvovs, ovs SiaTeTUfievovs e^' "qfJ-ds 
e(f)r]ada levai, cos tolovtos eaTi TToXtTeicbv t,a>ypd- 
<l>os, ov tot' eTrrjvovp^ev Trpds avTovs, 8i' ov eKelvot 
ixaXeTTacvov , otl Tag TToXets avTot Trdpehibopiev , Kai 
Tt pidXXov avTO vvv aKovovTes npavvovTai; Kai 

" The theory of ideas frequently employs this image of 
the artist looking off to his model and back again to his 
work. Cf. on 484 c, and What Plato Said, p. 458, Unity of 
Plato's Thought, p. 37. 

* i.fi. the idea of justice. For (pvcris and the theory of ideas 
cf. infra 597 c, Phaedo 103 b, Parmen. 132 d, Cratijl. 389 c-d, 
390 E. 

« For dvopeiKeXov cf. Cratyl. 424 e. 

" II. i. 131, Od. iii. 416. Cf. 589 d, 500 c-n. Laws 818 
B-c, and What Plato Said, p. 578 on Theaet. 176 b, Cic. Tusc. 

72 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

reformers, that they would refuse to take in hand 
either indixidual or state or to legislate before they 
either received a clean slate or themselves made it 
clean." " And they would be right," he said. 
" And thereafter, do you not think that they would 
sketch the figure of the constitution?" " Surely." 
" And then, I take it, in the course of the work 
they would glance " frequently in either direction, at 
justice, beauty, sobriety and the like as they are in 
the nature of things,* and alternately at that which 
they were trying to reproduce in mankind, mingling 
and blending from various pursuits that hue of 
the flesh, so to speak, deriving their judgement from 
that likeness of humanity " which Homer too called 
when it appeared in men the image and likeness of 
God.** " " Right," he said. " And they would erase 
one touch or stroke and paint in another until 
in the measure of the possible * they had made 
the characters of men pleasing and dear to God 
as may be." "That at any rate ^ would be the 
fairest painting." " Are we then making any im- 
pression on those who you said^ were advancing to 
attack us ^^ith might and main ? Can we con\ince 
them that such a political artist of character and such 
a painter exists as the one we then were praising when 
our proposal to entrust the state to him angered them, 
and are they now in a gentler mood when they hear 
what we are now saying?" " Much gentler," he said, 

i. 26, 65 "divina mallem ad nos." Cf. also Tim. 90 a, 
Phaedr. 249 c. 

The modern reader may think of Tennyson, In Mem. 
cviii. " \\ hat find I in the highest place But mine own 
irfiantom chantiner hvmns? " Cf. also Adam ad loc. 

' Cf. 500 u and on 493 d. 

' For fovv cf. supra. Vol. I. on 334 a. * Cf. 474 a. 

73 



PLATO l| 

D TToXv ye, Tj 8' 6'?, et aa}(f>povovaiv . Ufj yap Srf 
e^ovaiv dfi(f)i(T^7]Trj(7aL ; TTorepov pbrj rod ovro'S re 
Kal aXrjdeias ipaaras elvai, tovs (f)iXocr6(f)OVs ; 
"AroTTOv fievT dv, c^f], etrj. AAAa [xtj rrjv ^vaiv 
avTa)v oiKeiav etvai tov dpiarov, rjv rjixeis Sit^A- 
dofiev; OvSe tovto. Ti Se; ttjv TOiavTrjv tvxov' 
aav Tcov TrpoarrjKOVTCov e7Tirr]8evfidTCDV ovk dyadrjv 
TeAe'co? eaeadai Kal <f>iX6(JO(jiOV etirep rivd dXXrjv; 
r) e/ceiVous' ^i^areiv^ fxaXXov, ovg rjfiets d(f>a>piaajxev ; 
E Ov hriTTOV. "Eti ovv dypiavovcn XeyovTCOV rjixcov, 
OTi, TTplv dv TToXccos TO ^lX6uo<J)ov ydvos iyKpares 
yivTjTaL, ovT€ TToXei ovre TToXirais KaKcov TrayAa 
earai, ovhk "q TToXneia, rjv fivdoXoyov/Jiev Xoyco, 
cpycp Te'Ao? X-qi/jerai,; "Icrcos, €(f>r], -^jTrov. BouAei 
ovv, 'qv 8' iycx), fir) fiTTov (f>d)fiev avTovs dAAa 
iravraTTaaL Trpdovg ycyovevai Kal TreTreladai, tva, 
502 €t i^T] Ti, dAAa alaxvvdivres ofioXoyrjacomv ; Hdvv 
ixev ovv, ecjuTj. 

XIV. OvTOL fiev Toivvv, r^v 8' ey(x), tovto 

7T€7T€tap.€VOL eOTCOV TOvSc 8e TTCpi TLS dfM<f)l,a- 

^■qr-qaei, <hs ovk dv Tvxoiev yevojJLevoi ^acriXeajv 
eKyovot Tf hvvaarchv rds (f>vaeL? (f)LX6ao(f)OL ; OuS av 
els, ^4^- ToLOVTOvs 8e yevofxevovs (hs ttoXXtj dvdyKrj 
hiat^daprivai, ex^t- tls Xeyeiv; d)s fiev yap X'^^Xe'ndv 
aojdrjvai, Kal rjfjiels ^vyxoipovfxev d)s 8e ev ttovti 
B TO) xpovip TU)v TTavTCOV ovSeTTOT^ ou8 av eis aoi- 
deirj, ead^ oans dix(f)ia^r]T'qae(,; Kat ttcos ; AAAa 
fXTQV, TjV 8' eyoi, els iKavos yevofxevos , ttoXlv e;^ci>v 
1 tpTiaeiv ADM : Adam reads (py^aei ; see his note ad loc. 

» Cf. 591 A, This affirmation of the impossibility of denial 
or controversy is a motif frequent in the Attic orators. Cf. 
Lj'^sias XXX. 26, xxxi. 21, xiii. 49, vi. 46, etc. 

74 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

" if they are reasonable." " How can they controvert 
it '• ? Will they deny that the lovers of wisdom are 
lovers of reality and truth ? " " That would be 
monstrous," he said. " Or that their nature as we 
have portrayed it is akin to the highest and best ? " 
" Not that either." " Well, then, can they deny that 
such a nature bred in the pursuits that befit it will 
be perfectly good and philosophic so far as that can 
be said of anyone ? Or ^^^ll they rather say it of 
those whom we have excluded ? " " Surely not." 
" Will they, then, any longer be fierce \vith us when 
we declare that, until the philosophic class wins 
control, there will be no surcease of trouble for city 
or citizens nor will the polity which we fable ^ in 
words be brought to pass in deed ? " " They will 
perhaps be less so," he said. " Instead of less so, 
may we not say that they have been altogether 
tamed and convinced, so that for very shame, if 
for no other reason, they may assent ? " " Certainly," 
said he. 

XIV. " Let us assume, then," said I, " that they 
are won over to this view. Will anyone contend that 
there is no chance that the offspring of kings and 
rulers should be born with the philosophic nature ? " 
" Not one," he said. " And can anyone prove that if 
so bom they must necessarily be corrupted ? The 
difficulty "^ of their salvation we too concede ; but that 
in all the course of time not one of all could be saved,'' 
will anyone maintain that ? " " How could he ? " 
" But surely," said I, " the occurrence of one such is 

» Cf. 376 D, Laws 632 e, 841 c, Phaedr. 276 e. 
Frutiger, Les Mythes de Plalon, p. 13, says Plato uses the 
word fivdos only once of his own mvths, Polit. 268 e. 

* C/. Laics 711 D TO xaXexo;', an^ 495 a-b. 

' Cf. 494 A. 

75 



PLATO 

TreiOofievrjv, navr' eTrtTfAecrat ra vvv aTnaTOVii€.va. 
'\Kav6s yap, €(/)rj. "Apxovrog yap ttov, rjv 8 eyco, 
ridevros rovs vofxovs Kal to. eTnrrjhevpLara, a 
hLeX-q\vda}xev , ov hrjrrov ahvvaTOV eQiXetv TTOLeXv 

TOVS TToAlVa?. OuS' OTTCOCTTIOVV. AAAtt St], aiTCp 

ripZi' So/cet, So^at kol oSXols davjxaarov ti /cat 
C dSvvaTOv; Ovk oifxaL eycoye, '^ S' os. Kat [xiqv 
OTL ye ^eXriara, etTrep hward, LKavcos iv toIs 
epuTrpoadev, wg iyipfxai, hiiqXdopLev. 'iKavib'S yap. 
Nur St^, (Ls €OiK€, ^Vfx^alvec rjjxiv irepl rrjs vo/xo- 
deaiag dptara fxev elvat d Xeyojxev, ei yevoLTO, 
XaXeTrd Se yeviadai, ov jxevTOi dSwara ye. Zv/x- 
jSaiVet ydp, e(j>rj. 

XV. OvKovv eTreiSrj rovro pboyis reXog €ax^, "ra 
D i-JTiXoLTra St) fxerd tovto XeKreov, rtva rpoirov rjfXLV 
Kal e/c rivojv pLadrjixaTCOV re /cat eTnrr^SevjJidTOJV ol 
acoTTJpes eveaovrai ttjs TroAtreta?, /cat Kara Trota? 
rjXiKLas e/cuCTTOt ii<d(TTCov aTTTo/Lterot; Ae/creov 
yievroi, e(f>r].i OvSev, -^v 8' eyd), to aocf)ov [xoi 
iyevero rrjv re rdJv yvvaLKciJv rrjs Krijaecos Svaxe- 
peiav iv ro) irpoodev TrapaXnTovri /cat TratSoyoi'tat' 
/cat rr^v rCbv dpxdvrojv KardaTacriv, etSort cos 
eTTLcfjOovos re /cat x^^^'^V yt-yveadai -q TravreXcos 
E dXiqdnjs' vvv ydp ovhev tjttov rjXde ro Betv avra 

' (Jf. Epist. vii. 338 c and Novotny, Plato's Epistles, p. 170. 
Plato's apparent radicalism again. Cf. on 501 a. Cf. also 
Laws 709 e, but note the qualification in 875 c, 713 e-714i a, 
691 c-D. Wilamowitz, Platon, ii. pp. 381-383 seems to say 
that the eh Uavds is the philosopher — Plato. 

' Note the different tone of 565 e \a^<^v cKptiSpa Tretdd/j.evoi' 
6x^01'. Cf. Phaedr. 260 c Xajiihv irdXiv wcraiTws t'xovcj'a*' 
ireiOT]. 

' Cf. on 499 D, and Frutiger, Mythes de Platon, p. 43. 

76 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

enough," if he has a state which obeys him,*' to realize" 
all that now seems so incredible . " " Yes , one is enough , ' ' 
he said. " For if such a ruler," I said, " ordains the 
laws and institutions that we have described it is surely 
not impossible that the citizens should be content to 
carry them out." "By no means." " Would it, then, 
be at all strange or impossible for others to come to the 
opinion to which we have come <* ? " "I think not," 
said he. " And further that these things are best, if 
possible, has already, I take it, been sufficiently 
shown." "Yes, sufficiently." " Our present opinion, 
then, about this legislation is that our plan would be 
best if it could be realized and that this reaUzation 
is difficult* yet not impossible." " That is the con- 
clusion," he said. 

XV. " This difficulty disposed of, we have next to 
speak of what remains, in what way, namely, and as a 
result of what studies and pursuits, these preservers ^ 
of the constitution will form a part of our state, and 
at what ages they will severally take up each study." 
" Yes, we have to speak of that," he said. " I gained 
nothing," I said, " by my cunning ''in omitting hereto- 
fore ^ the distasteful topic of the possession of women 
and procreation of children and the appointment of 
rulers, because I knew that the absolutelv true and 
right way would provoke censure and is difficult of 
realization ; for now I am none the less compelled 

" Cf. Epist. vii. 327 b-c, viii. 357 b ff. 

• Cf. 502 A, Campbell's note on Theaet. 144 a, and Wila- 
mowitz, Platon, ii. p. 208. 

f Cf. on 412 A-B and 497 c-d. Laws 960 b. 463 b is not 
quite relevant. 

» For TO (To<p6v cf. Eutkyd^m. 293 d, 297 d, Garg. 483 a, 
Herod, v. 18 rovro ovdiv elvai (T0(p6v, Synip. 214 a t6 ffd^ua/ia, 
Laches 183 d, 

» Cf 423 E. 

77 



PLATO 

OLeAdeLv. Kat to. fiev St] tcov yvvaiKaJv re /cat 
TTaiScov 7T€7T€pavrai, ro 8e t(x)v dp)(6vrcov (ZcrTrep i^ 
OipXV^ P'^TeXdelv Set. iXeyofxev 8', el pLvrfp^oveveis , 
503 Seiv avTovs t^tAoTToAtSas" re (ftaiveaOat, ^acravt- 
t,ofievovs ev ri^ovaig re /cat AuTrat?, /cat ro Soy/xa 
rovro /xt^t' ev Trov'ots' jLtT^r' ei' ^o^ocs p-^r* ev dXXr} 
fi-qSepLLa p,era^o\fj <f)aiveadai eK^dXXovras, iq rov 
dSvvarovvra diroKpLreov, rov Se Travraxov a/c7^- 
parov cK^aivovra, oiairep xpvcrov ev TTvpl ^aaavLt,6- 
fxevov, arareov dp^ovra /cat yepa Soreov /cat t,covrL 
Kat reXevrrjcavn /cat ddXa. roiavr drra rjv rd 
Xey6p.eva, Trape^iovros /cat TTapaKaXv-nrop-evov rov 

B XoyoVy 7Tecl)o^rjp,evov Kivelv ro vvv Trapov. ^AXrjde- 
, arara, e(f)iq, Aeyei?' pep,v7jp,ai ydp. "Okvos ydp, 

n e(f)r]v, o) (f>LXe, eyco, elrrelv rd vvv d7ToreroXp,r]peva' 
vvv Se rovro fiev reroXfxrjadco elTrelv, on rovs 
aKpL^eardrovs ^uAa/ca? (f)i.Xoa6(f)ovs Set Kadiardvai, 
Yilp-qcrdo} ydp, €(f)r]. Notjctov St], d)s et/corco? oAt'yoi 
eaovrai aoi. r^v ydp 8L'qXdop,ev (f)vatv SeXv vtt- 
dpxeiv avrols, els ravro ^vp,(f)vea6at avrrjs rd p-epy) 

" In Bk. V. 

* Cf. 412 D-E, 413 c-414 a, 430 a-b, 537, 540 a, Laws 751 c. 
" C/. on 412 E, 413 c, Soph. 230 b. 
'' TO 56yfj.a tovto is an illogical idiom. The antecedent is 

only implied. Cf. 373 c, 598 c. See my article in Trans- 
actions of the American Phil. Assoc, xlvii. (1916) pp. 205-236. 

* Cf. Theognis 417-418 Traparpi^ofiai (bare /xoXifidijj xpi'cis, 
ibid. 447-452, 1105-1106, Herod, vii. 10, Eurip. fr. 955 (N.). 

Cf. Zechariah xiii. 9 " I . . . will try them as gold is 
tried," Job xxiii. 10 " When he hath tried me I shall come 
forth as gold." Cf also 1 Peter i. 7, Psalm xii. 6, Ixvi. 10, 
Isaiah xlviii. 10. 

^ The translation preserves the intentional order of the 
Greek. For the idea c/. 414 a and 465 d-e and for &9\a cf 
460 b. Cobet rejects /cat S,d\a, but emendations are needless. 

78 



I 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

to discuss them. The matter of the women and 
children has been disposed of," but the education of 
the rulers has to be examined again, I may say, from 
the starting-point. We were saying, if you recollect, 
that they must approve themselves lovers of the state 
when tested * in pleasures and pains, and make it 
apparent that they do not abandon '^ this fixed faith ^ 
under stress of labours or fears or any other vicissi- 
tude, and that anyone who could not keep that faith 
must be rejected, while he who always issued from 
the test pure and intact, like gold tried in the fire,* is 
to be established as ruler and to receive honours in 
life and after death and prizes as well.^ Something 
of this sort we said while the argument shpped by 
with veiled face " in fear * of starting * our present de- 
bate." "Most true," he said; "I remember." "We 
shrank, my friend," I said, " from uttering the 
audacities which have now been hazarded. But now 
let us find com-age for the definitive pronouncement 
that as the most perfect ^ guardians we must establish 
philosophers." " Yes, assume it to have been said," 
said he. " Note, then, that they ^\ill naturally be few,* 
for the different components of the nature which we 
said their education presupposed rarely consent to 

» Cf. Phaedr. 237 a, Epist. vii. 340 a. For the per- 
sonification of the X670S cf. What Plato Said, p. 500 on 
Protag. 361 a-b. So too Cic. Tusc. i. 45. 108 " sed ita tetra 
sunt quaedam, ut ea fugiat et reformidet oratio." 

* Cf. 387 B. 

* Cf. the proverbial /htj Kiveiv to. aKivrfra, do not move the 
immovable, " let sleeping dogs lie," in Laws 664 d-e, 
913 B. Cf. also Phileb. 16 c, and the American idiom " start 
something." 

' Cf. 503 D. 341 B, 340 e, 342 d. 
» Cf. on 494 A 

79 



PLATO 

oXiyaKis ideXei, ra ttoAAci Se SieaTTacrfjuevrj <f)v€Tai. 
C Hcvs, ^4'1> Aeyet?; Ew/xa^ei? koL yLvrjjxove^ Kal 
ayxi-voL /cat o^els /cat oaa aAAa tovtois eVerat 
olad^ on OVK idiXovaiv a/xa (f)veadai /cat veavcKoi} re 
/cat ixeyaXoTTpeneis rag Stai'oias', oiot Koafilcos 
fiera rjavxiOLS Kal ^e^aLorrjTos iOeXeiv ^rjv, dAA' 

OL TOIOVTOI VTTO O^VrT}TOS (f>ipOVraL OTTTj dv TV)(0)aL, 

Kal TO ^e^aiov drrav avTcov i^oix^rat. *AXr)6rj, 
e(f>r], Xeyeis. Ovkovv tol jSe)8ata av ravra TjOrj Kal 

I OVK evfierd^oXa, ots dv rts fxaXXov cos TnaroZs 

T) ^pi^cratTO, /cat ev rip TToXijxco Trpos tovs (f>6^ovs 
SvGKLVTjTa ovra, irpos rds p^aOrjaeis av iroiel rav- 
rov SvaKivrjTOJS ex^L Kal Svo-fxaOdjs axmep dno- 
vevapKCOjxeva, Kal vttvov re Kal xdcrpL-qs epLTTiTrXavrai, 

' orav Ti Ser) roiovrov SiaTTOveLV. "Eo-rt ravra, e(f)rj. 

i *\{peZs he y' €(/>ap,ev dp,(f)or€pa}v Selv ev re Kal 

KaXcjg p,eT€xetv, iq fi-qre TzatSei'as" rijs aKpi^eardrr]? 

Selv avrcp jjceraSiSovai. jxi^re rt-fxrjs p-i^re dpx'rj?. 

^OpOdJs, rj 8' OS. OvKovv OTrdviov avro o'lei 

E eaeaOai; Y[a)s S' ov; Baaavtareov 8rj ev re ots 
rore eXeyo\iev ttovols re Kal (f)6^ots Kal '^Sovats, 
Kal erL Brj o rore Trapeifiev vvv Xeyofxev, on Kal ev 
^ On the text see end of note a below. 

" The translation is correct. In the Greek the anacoluthon 
is for right emphasis, and the separation of veauiKol re Kal 
neyaXoirpeireh from the other members of the list is also an 
intentional feature of Plato's style to avoid the monotony of 
too long an enumeration. The two things that rarely com- 
bine are Plato's two temperaments. The description of the 
orderly temperament begins with oloi and oi toloOtoi refers to 
the preceding description of the active temperament. The 
Mss. have kui before ptaviKoi ; Heindorf, followed by Wilamo- 
witz, and Adam's minor edition, put it before oXol. Burnet 
follows the MSS. Adam's larger edition puts Kal veaviKoi re 
80 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

grow in one ; but for the most part these qualities 
are found apart." " What do you mean ? " he said. 
" Facihty in learning, memory, sagacity, quickness of 
apprehension and their accompaniments, and youth- 
ful spirit and magnificence in soul are qualities, you 
know, that are rarely combined in human nature with 
a disposition to live orderly, quiet, and stable lives ; " 
but such men, by reason of their quickness,^ are driven 
about just as chance directs, and all steadfastness is 
gone out of them." " You speak truly," he said. 
" And on the other hand, the steadfast and stable 
temperaments, whom one could rather trust in use, 
and who in war are not easily moved and aroused to 
fear, are apt to act in the same way " when confronted 
with studies. They are not easily aroused, learn with 
difficulty, as if benumbed,'* and are filled vriih sleep 
and yawning when an intellectual task is set them." 
" It is so," he said. " But we affirmed that a man 
must partake of both temperaments in due and fair 
combination or else participate in neither the highest* 
education nor in honours nor in rule. " " And rightly," 
he said. " Do you not think, then, that such a blend ^^^ll 
be a rare thing ? " "Of course." "They must, then, 
be tested in the toils and fears and pleasures of which 
we then spoke,^ and we have also now to speak of a 

after fxerai. The right meaning can be got from any of the 
texts in a good viva voce reading. 

Plato's contrast of the two temperaments disregards the 
possible objection of a psychologist that the adventurous 
temperament is not necessarily intellectual. Cf. supra on 
375 c, and What Plato Said, p. 573 on Theaet. 14.4 a-b, Cic. 
Tusc. V. 24. * C/. Theaet. 144 a flF. 

* A touch of humour in a teacher. 

* For the figure cf. Meno 80 a, 84 b and c. 

* Lit. " most precise." Cf. Laws 965 b aKpi^fffripav iraidflav. 
' In 412 c ff. 

VOL. II O 81 



PLATO 

jxad-qixaoL TroXXolg yvfivd^cLv Set, aKOTTOViras el 
Kal TO. fieyiara fiad-q/xara Svvarr) carat iveyKelv, 
504 etre /cat dTToSeiXidaei, wairep ol iv rols ddXois^ 
aTToSeiXicovTes. YlpeTrei ye roi hrj, €(f)r], ovro) 
OKOTTeZv dXkd TTOia S17 Aeyei? fxaOi^fxara iieyiara; 
XVI. Mi/T^jLtofeuet? /xeV ttov, rjv 8' iyco, otl 
rpLTTo. ethrj fpvx'^S hiaarrjodixevoi ^vve^i^dt^oiiev 
hiKaiocTVvris re irepi, /cat au}(f>poavvrig Kal dvBpelas 
Kal ao(f>iag o eKaarov etrj. Mrj yap p,v'rjfj,ov€vcov, 
e(f)r}, rd AotTra dv etrjv St/catoj fir] dKovetv. ^H Kal 

B TO TTpopprjdkv avrcbv; To ttolov S-q; ^KXeyofidv 
TTOV, OTt, d)s /xev Svvarov '^v KdXXiarra avrd Kar- 
ihelv, dXXr) fxaKporepa eiiq Trepiohos, rjv Trept- 
eXdovTL KaTa(f>av7J yiyvoiro, tcHv fievroi efXTrpoadev 
TTpoeLprjjjLevcov eTzo/xera? (XTroSet^ei? olov t' etrj 
TTpoadifjai. Kal vpcets i^apKelv e^are, Kal ovTOi 
hrj ipprjOr] rd Tore rrjg fxev dKpi^elag, d>s efiol 
€(f)aii>€ro, cAAtTTT], el Se vpZv dpeaKovrcog, Vfielg dv 
rovro etrroire. AAA ep.oiye, €(f>r], pierpiajs' e(f>aL- 

C vero [XTju Kal rois dXXoLs. 'AAA', c5 ^t'Ae, -qv 8' 

^ d^Xois Orelli : dXXots mss. 

« Cf. infra 535 b, Protag. 326 c. 

* For the tripartite soul cf. Vol. I. on 435 a and 436 b, i 
Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 42, What Plato Said, p. 526 on 
Phaedo 68 c, p. 552 on Phaedr. 246 b, and p. 563 on Rep. 
4,35 B-c. 

" Cf. Vol. I. on 435 d, Phaedr. 274 a, Friedlander, PZatow, 
ii. pp. 376-377, Jowett and Campbell, p. 300, Frutiger, 
Mythes de Platon, pp. 81 ff., and my Idea of Good in 
Plato's Republic {Univ. of Chicago Studies in Class. Phil. 
vol. i. p. 190). There is no mysticism and no obscurity. The 
longer way is the higher education, which will enable the 
philosopher not only like ordinary citizens to do the right 
from habit and training, but to understand the reasons for it. 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

point we then passed by, that we must exercise them 
in many studies, watching them to see whether their 
nature is capable of enduring the greatest and most 
difficult studies or whether it will faint and flinch ° as 
men flinch in the trials and contests of the body." 
" That is certainly the right way of looking at it," he 
said. " But what do you understand by the greatest 
studies ? " 

XVI. " You remember, I presume," said I, " that 
after distinguishing three kinds * in the soul, we estab- 
Ushed definitions of justice, sobriety, bravery and 
\tisdom severally." " If I did not remember," he 
said, " I should not deserve to hear the rest." " Do 
you also remember what was said before this ? " 
" What ? " " We were saying, I beheve, that for 
the most perfect discernment of these things another 
longer way " was requisite which would make them 
plain to one who took it, but that it was possible 
to add proofs on a par ^Wth the preceding discussion. 
And you said that that was sufficient, and it was on 
this understanding that what we then said was said, 
falling short of ultimate precision as it appeared to 
me, but if it contented you it is for you to say." 
" Well," he said, " it was measurably satisfactory to 
me, and apparently to the rest of the company." 

The outcome of such an education is described as the vision 
of the idea of good, which for ethics and politics means a 
restatement of the provisional psychological definition of the 
cardinal virtues in terms of the ultimate elements of human 
welfare. For metaphysics and cosmogony the vision of the 
idea of good may mean a teleological interpretation of the 
universe and the interpretation of all things in terms of 
benevolent design. That is reserved for poetical and mythical 
treatment in the Timaeus. The Republic merely glances at 
the thought from time to time and returns to its own theme. 
Cf. also Introd.; p. xxxv. 

83 



PLATO 

eyoj, fierpov tcov toiovtcov aTToXeLTTOV Kal oTiovv 
Tov ovTos ov Trdvv /jLerpLcos ylyveraf dreXcs yap 
ovSep ovSevos fxerpov So/cet 8' ivtore riaiv cKavcos 
V^V €;(eiv Kal ovhev Belv Trepairepo) J^rjrelv. Kal 
^oA', €^r), avxvol Trdaxovaiv avro 8ta padvpuiav. 
TouTou Se ye, ^v 8' eyco, tov iradrjpiaTos TJKLcrra 
irpoahel <f>vXaKL rroXecos re Kal vofxojv. EtVds", 17 
8' OS. Trjv pLaKpoTcpav Toivvv, cS eraZpe, €<f)7jv, 

D nepureov tu> tolovtw, Kal ovx ^ttov fiavddvovTi 
TTOvqreov t] yvfivat^ofievip- t], o vvv St) iXeyofiev, 
TOV fieyiOTOV re Kal fidXiara Trpoar^KOVTOs piaO-q- 
pbaros 6771 reXos ovTTore rj^ei. Ov yap ravra, €(f)r], 
pL€yiara, dXX €tl tl piei^ov dLKaioavvqs t€ Kal <Lv 
hiijXdopiev ; Kat pielt^ov, fjv 8' €y(x), Kal avrwv 
TovTCov ovx V7Toypa(f)rjv Set coa-nep vvv dedaaaOai, 
dXXd TTjv reXecordr-qv aTrepyaaiav pLrj Trapiivai' 
ri ov yeXolov, cttI pikv dXXoLS apuKpov d^lots Trdv 

E TTOLeXv avvT€ivopi€vovs oTTOig 6 Tl aKpi^earaTa Kat 
Kadapa)Tara e^ei, tcov 8e p.eyiaT(x)v p.r] pieylaTas 



" Cf. Cic. De fin. i. 1 "nee modus est uUus investigandi 
veri nisi inveneris." 

Note not only the edifying tone and the unction of the 
style but the definite suggestion of Plato's distaste for 
relativity and imperfection which finds expression in the 
criticism of the homo mensura in the Theaetetus, in the state- 
ment of the Laws 716 c, that God is the measure of all things 
{What Plato Said, p. 631), and in the contrast in the Politicus 
283-284 between measuring things against one another and 
measuring them by an idea. Cf. infra 531 a. 
84 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

" Nay, my friend," said I, " a measure of such things 
that in the least degree falls short of reality proves 
no measure at all. For nothing that is imperfect is 
the measure of anything," though some people some- 
times think that they have already done enough ^ and 
that there is no need of further inquiry." " Yes, 
indeed," he said, " many experience this because of 
their sloth." " An experience," said I, " that least 
of all befits the guardians of a state and of its laws." 
" That seems likely," he said. " Then," said I, 
" such a one must go around'' the longer way and must 
labour no less in studies than in the exercises of the 
body ; or else, as we were just sapng, he A^ill never 
come to the end of the greatest study and that which 
most properly belongs to him." " Why, are not 
these things the greatest ? " said he ; " but is there 
still something greater than justice and the other 
virtues we described ? " " There is not only some- 
thing greater," I said, " but of these very things we 
need not merely to contemplate an outline ^ as now, 
but we must omit nothing of their most exact 
elaboration. Or would it not be absurd to strain every 
nerve * to attain to the utmost precision and clarity 
of knowledge about other things of trifling moment 
and not to demand the greatest precision for the 

* Cf. Menex. 234 a. Charm. 158 c, 8ymp. 204 a, EpUt. 
vii. 341 A. 

From here to the end of this Book the notes are to be used 
in connexion with the Introduction, pp. xxiii-xxxvi, where the 
idea of good and the divided line are discussed. 

' Cf. Phaedr. 274 a. 

* i.e. sketch, adumbration. The viroypa<f>-^ is the account 
of the cardinal virtues in Bk. iv. 428-433. 

* For -KcLv Totetv cf, on 4b8 c, for awTeivoftivovs Euthydem. 
£88 D. 

85 



PLATO 

d^Lovv elvai /cat raj oLKpi^eLas; Kat fidXa, €(f)r], 

[d^cov TO hiavorjixaf' o fievroi fieyccrrov fxadrj/jLa koI 

TTepl 6 Ti avTo Xeyeis, oiei riv* dv ae, €<f)7], d<j)eivai 

jjiTj ipcoT'qaavTa tl Iotlv; Oj) Trdw, rjv 8' eyoj, 

aXXd KOL au ipcora. iravrcos avro ovk oAtya/ctf 

aKTJKoas' vvv Se t] ovk ivvoels rj av Biavoel ip.ol 

505 TTpdypiaTa Trapex^i-v avTiXafi^avofievos . otfiai 8e 

Tovro ^LtaAAot'" eTrei on ye rj tov dyaOov iSea 

fieyiarov /xad-qpLa, TroAAa/cis' a/ci^/coa?, -fj Sr] BiKaca 

/cat TttAAa TTpoa)(pTqadiieva p^pT^ot/Lia /cat ci^e'Ai/xa 

yiyverai. /cat ruv op^eSov ota^' ort /xeAAa> touto 

Aeyetr, /cat Trpo? rovrio on avr^v ov)( cKavajs 

tap,€V' el Se firj lap.ev, dvev Se ravrrjs, el o ti 

IxdXiaTa rdXXa eTnaraifxeda, olad^ ort ouSej' 'qpxv 

B 6(f)eXog, woTTep ovS el KeKT'qfieOd rt dvev tov 

dyadov. ■^ otet rt ttXcov elvai irdoav Krqaiv €kt7J- 

aOai, fXTj jxevToi dyaBijv; iq TrdvTa rdAAa ^povelv 

^ Bracketed by Scheiermacher, whom the Oxford text 
follows. Cf. also Adam ad loc. Stallbaum ad loc, defends. 

" Such juxtaposition of different forms of the same word is 
one of the most common features of Plato's style. Cf. 453 b 
iva 'iv, 466 D navTa TrdfTTj, 467 D TroWd ttoWois, 496 c oi'Sfis 
ovoev. Laws 835 c fxjvcf} fiovo^, 958 B eKdvra e/cwj'. Cf. also 
Protag. 327 b, Gorg. 523 b, Symp. 217 b, Tim. 92 b, Phaedo 
109 B, Apol. 32 c, and Laws passim. 

^ The answer is to the sense. Cf. 346 e, Crito 47 c, and d. 
Laches 195 d, Gorg. 467 e. See critical note. 

' Plato assumed that the reader will understand that the 
unavailing quest for " the good " in the earlier dialogues is 
an anticipation of the idea of good. Cf. supra Vol. I. on 
476 A and What Plato Said, p. 71. Wilamowitz, Platan, i. 
p. 567, does not understand. 

"» Cf. 508 E, 517 c, Cratgl. 418 e. Cf. Phileb. 64 e and 
What Plato Said, p. 534, on Phaedo 99 a. 

86 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

greatest " matters ? " "It would indeed,* " he said ; 
" but do you suppose that anyone will let you go 
without asking what is the greatest study and with 
what you think it is concerned ? " " By no means," 
said I ; " but do you ask the question. You cer- 
tainly have heard it often, but now you either do not 
apprehend or again you are minded to make trouble 
for me by attacking the argument. I suspect it is 
rather the latter. For you have often heard" that the 
greatest thing to learn is the idea of good** byreference 
to which ' j ust things f and all the rest become useful and 
beneficial. And now I am almost sure you know that 
this is what I am going to speak of and to say further 
that we have no adequate knowledge of it. And if we 
do not know it, then, even if without the knowledge of 
this we should know all other things never so well, 
you are aware that it would avail us nothing, just as 
no possession either is of any avails \Wthout the posses- 
sion of the good. Or do you think there is any profit '' 
in possessing everything except that which is good, 
or in understanding all things else apart from the 

Plato is unwilling to confine his idea of good to a formula 
and so seems to speak of it as a mystery. It was so regarded 
throughout antiquity (r/. Diog. Laert. iii. 27), and by a 
majority of modern scholars. Cf. mv Idea of Good in Plato's 
Republic, pp. 188-189, What Plato Said, pp. 72, 230-231, 
Introd. Vol. I. pp. xl-xli, and Vol. II. pp. xxvii, xxxiv. 

' Lit. "the use of which," i.e. a theory of the cardinal 
virtues is scientific only if deduced from an ultimate sanction 
or ideal. 

' The omission of the article merely gives a vaguely 
generalizing colour. It makes no difference. 

» For the idiom oiiSiv 6<pe\os cf. Euthyph. 4 e. Lysis 208 e, 
supra 36.5 b. Charm. 155 e, etc 

* Cf. 427 A, Phaedr. 215 c, Cratyl. 387 a, Euthyd. 288 e. 
Laws 751 B, 944 d, etc. 

87 



PLATO 

dv€V Tov dyadov, KaXov Se /cat dyadov firjSev 
(fipoveZv ; Md At" ovk eycoy , ^(f)r). 

XVII. 'AAAd fxrjv /cat rdSe ye olada, on rots 
fiev TToAAot? rjSovT] So/cet etvai to dyadov, tols Se 
KO/jufjOTepoLS (f)p6vr]ais. Ilajs" S' ou; Kat ort ye, 
c5 ^t'Ae, ot rovTO rjyov/jievot ovk €)(ovai Set^at rjTLs 
(f>p6inf]aLS, dXX dvayKdl,ovTaL reXevTOJvres ttjv tov 
ayadov (f>dvat,. Kat fidXa, ^^f], yeAoicus'. YVcjs 
yap ovxi-3 ^iv o eyo), ei oveiOLL,ovT€s ye otl ovk 
tafiev TO dyadov, Xeyovai TrdXiv ws etSocrt; <f)p6- 
VTjaiv yap avTO cfyaatv elvai dyadov, d)s av $vv- 
teWcoi' rjjjLcvv 6 tl Xeyovaw, eTretSdi^ to tov dyadov 
^dey^oiVTaL 6vop,a. ^AXrjdeaTaTa, e07^. Tt Sat; 
ot TTjv TjSovTjv dyadov opit^oixevoi fxcbv ixrj tl eAar- 
Tovos" TrXavr^g efiTrXecp tojv eTepcxiv; rj ov Kai ovtol 
dvayKdt,ovTaL ofxoXoyelv rjSovds etvat, /ca/cas'; 

" KoXbv S^ Kal dya66v suggests but does not mean Kd\oKayad6v 
in its half-technical sense. The two words fill out the rhythm 
with Platonic fulness and are virtual synonyms. Cf. Fhileb. 
65 A and Symp. 210-211 where because of the subject the 
KaXov is substituted for the dyaOou. 

* So Polus and Callicles in the Oorgias and later the 
Epicureans and Cyrenaics. Cf. also What Plato Said, p. 131 ; 
Eurip. IJippol. 383 ol S' ijdovriv irpodivTei avrl rod KaXov, and 
supra on 329 a-b. 

There is no contradiction here with the Philebus. Plato 
does not himself say that either pleasure or knowledge is the 
good. 

" KOfi^j/oripoii is very slightly if at all ironical here. Cf. 
the American " sophisticated " in recent use. See too Theaet. 
156 A, Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1905 a 18 oi x"/''«»'''fs- 

'' Plato does not distingufsh synonyms in the style of 
Prodicus {cf. Protag. 337 a ff.) and Aristotle {cf Eth. Nic. 
1140-1141) when the distinction is irrelevant to his purpose. 
Cf. Euthyd. 281 d, Theaet. 176 b with 176 c. 

• Cf. 428 B-c, Euthydem. 288 d f., Laws 961 e 6 irepl tI 

88 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

good while understanding and knowing nothing that is 
fair and good " ? " " No, by Zeus, I do not," he said. 
XVII. " But, furthermore, you know this too, that 
the multitude believe pleasure* to be the good, and 
the finer <^ spirits intelligence or knowledge.'' " " Cer- 
tainly." " And you are also aware, my friend, that 
those who hold this latter \-iew are not able to point 
out what knowledge * it is but are finally compelled 
to say that it is the knowledge of the good." " Most 
absurdly," he said. " Is it not absurd," said I, " if 
while taunting us with our ignorance of the good they 
turn about and talk to us as if we knew it ? For they 
say it is the knowledge of the good/ as if we under- 
stood their meaning when they utter ^ the word 
' good.' " " Most true," he said. " Well, are those 
who define the good as pleasure infected with any less 
confusion ^ of thought than the others ? Or are not 
they in like manner » compelled to admit that there 

row. See Unity of Plato^a Thought, n. 650. The demand 
for specification Is frequent in the dialogues. Cf. Euthyph. 
13 D, Laches \9i e, G(yrg. 451 a. Charm. 165 c-e. Ale. I. 
124 E ff. 

^ There is no "the" in the Greek. Emendations are idle. 
Plato is supremely indifferent to logical precision when it 
makes no difference for a reasonably intelligent reader. Cf. 
mv note on Phileb. 11 b-c in Class. Phil. vol. iii. (1908) 
pp. 343-.345. 

' <;>de'i^wvTai logically of mere physical utterance {cf. Theaet. 
157 b), not, I think, as Adam says, of high-sounding oracular 
utterance. 

* Lit. " wandering," the mark of error. Cf. 484 b. Lysis 
213 E, Phatdo 79 c. Soph. 230 b, Phaedr. 263 b, Parmen. 135 e. 
Laws 962 d. 

* Kal ofToi is an illogical idiom of over-particularization. 
The sentence begins generally and ends specifically. Plato 
does not care, since the meaning is clear, Cf. Protag. 336 c, 
Gorg. 456 c-d, Phaedo 62 a. 

89 



PLATO 

S^oSpa ye. Su/i^aiVei 8r) avrols, otfiat, ofjLO- 
D Aoyetv dyada eluai, Kal KaKo. Tavrd. 17 ydp; Ti 
/u.T^i'; OuKTOw on fxev fieydXai /cat TroAAat d}x<f>ia- 
PrjT-qcreis Trepl avTOV, ^avepov; Ilaj? ydp ov; 
Ti Se; rdSe oy (f>avep6v, cu? SiVaia /xev /cat /caAa 
TToAAot ai' eXoiVTO rd SoKovvra, Kav p,^ fj, ofxcvs 
ravra TTpdrretv Kal KeKTrjaOai /cat Sokclv, dyaOd 
Se ovSevl en dpKeZ rd SoKovvra KraaOai, dXXd rd 
ovra t^rjTOvai, ttjv 8e 86^av ivravOa rjS-q Trds 
E ari/za^et; Kat pdXa, €(f)rj. "0 8rj StojKet p,ev 
diraaa i/'ux^ '*^^^ royroy eve/ca Trat'Ta Trpdrrei, 
aTTop^avrevopevrj n etvat, aTTopovaa 8e /cat oy/c 
exovaa Xa^elv iKavcbg ri ttot' iarlv oySe TricTTei 
Xprjoaadai povip,a) oia /cat Trept raAAa, Sto, rovro 
be d7TOTuy)(dv€i /cat tcDp' d'AAajv et rt o^eAo? t^i', 
506 Trept Sr/ to rotoyrop' /cat roaovrov ovtco (/xxipev Setv 
iaKOTOJadai /cat CKelvovs rovs ^eXrloTovs iv rfj 



" A distinct reference to Callicles' admission in Gorgias 
499 B Tas fi^v ^eXrlovs riSofdi, rds 5^ x^^P^vi, cf. 499 C, 
Rep. 561 c, and Phileb. 13 c Trdtras ofiolai ehai, Stenzel's 
notion (Studien zur Entw. d. Plat. Dialektik, p. 98) that in 
the Philebus Plato " ist von dem Standpunkt des Staates 
S03c weit entfernt" is uncritical. The Republic merely 
refers to the Gorgias to show that the question is disputed 
and the disputants contradict themselves. 

*" d/ji.(f>iai3T]Tr](r€is is slightly disparaging, c/. Theaet. 163 c, 
158 c, 198 c, Sophist 233 b, 225 b, but less so than ipi!:etv 
in Protag. 337 a. 

" Men may deny the reality of the conventional virtues 
but not of the ultimate sanction, whatever it is. Cf. Theaet, 
167 c, 172 A-B, and Shorey in Class. Phil. xvi. (1921) 
pp. 164-168. 

** Cf. Gorg. 468 b to dyadof dpa duvKovres, supra 505 a-b, 
Phileb. 20 d, Symp. 206 a, Euthyd. 278 e, Aristot. Eth. JVic. 

90 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

are bad pleasures"?" "Most assuredly." "The 
outcome is, I take it, that they are admitting the same 
things to be both good and bad, are they not ? " 
" Certainly." " Then is it not apparent that there 
are many and violent disputes * about it ? " " Of 
course." " And again, is it not apparent that while 
in the case of the just and the honourable many would 
prefer the semblance "^ v.ithout the reality in action, 
possession, and opinion, yet when it comes to the good 
nobody is content -with the possession of the appear- 
ance but all men seek the reality, and the semblance 
satisfies nobody here ? " " Quite so," he said. 
" That, then, which every soul pursues ** and for its sake 
does all that it does, with an intuition* of its reality, 
but yet baffled ^ and unable to apprehend its nature 
adequately, or to attain to any stable belief about it 
as about other things,' and for that reason failing of 
any possible benefit from other things, — in a matter 
of this quality and moment, can we, I ask you, allow 
a hke blindness and obscurity in those best citizens * 

1173 a, 1094 a oO -iravra «<jiierai, Zeller, Aristot. i. pp. 344-345, 
379, Boethius iii. 10, Dante, Purg. xvii. 127-129. 

* Cf. Phileb. 64 A fiavrevrtov. Cf. Arnold's phrase, God 
and the Bible, chap. i. p. 23 "approximate language 
thrown out as it were at certain great objects which the 
human mind augurs and feels after." 

' As throughout the minor dialogues. Cf. What Plato 
Said, p. 71. 

' Because, in the language of Platonic metaphysics, it is 
the wapovaia roC dyadou that makes them good ; but for the 
practical purpose of ethical theory, because they need the 
sanction. Cf. Introd. p. xxvii, and Montaigne i. 24 "Toute 
aultre science est dommageable a celuy qui n'a la science de 
la bonte." 

* As in the " longer way" Plato is careful not to commit 
himself to a definition of the ideal or the sanction, but 
postulates it for his guardians. 

91 



PLATO 

TToXei, OLS Trdvra iyx^tpioCfxev ; "H/ctCTxa y', e^i^. 
Olfiai yovv, eliTOV, St/cata re /cat araAct dyvoov- 
fxeva OTTT) TTOTe ayadd eanv, ov ttoXXov tivos d^iov 
(pvXaKa K€KTrja9aL av eavrojv top tovto dyvoovvra, 
fjLavTevofiat 8e fxrjBeva avrd irporepov yvwcreadai 
LKavcog. KaAtD? ydp, e(f)rj, fxavrevei. Ovkovv yjimv 

B r) TToXiTeia reXeojs KeKoapufjaeTai , idv 6 toiovtos 
avrrjv emaKOTrfj ^vXa^, 6 rovrcov eTriar'qixcov ; 

XVIII. ^AvdyKT), €(1)7). dXXd ai) 817, <L Sco- 
Kpares, rrorepov evLCTT'qiJirjv to dyadov (f>fjs elvai tj 
rjSovT^v; T] dXXo rt Tcapd ravra; Ovrog, ■^v 8' iyco, 
av7]p, KaXcos riaOa /cat TraAat KaTa(f)avr)s on aoi 
ovK aTToxpi^crot to Tolg aAAots' Sokovv Trepl avTcov. 
OvSe ydp SiKaiov [xoi, €(f)r), u> Saj/cpares", ^atVerat 
TCI Tcjjv dXXcov p,€v ex^LV eLTTeZv SoyfMaTa, to 8' 
avTov pLTj, ToaovTov xpovov Trepl TavTa rrpaypiaTevo- 

C fievov. Tt 8at; ■^v 8' iyco- So/cet aoL St/cator eii^ai 
7T€pt a)V Tis fir] otSe Xeyeiv cos eiSora; OvSafioJS 
y , €^77, to? etSora, co? \iivToi olofievov Tavd* a 
oierat edeXetv Xeyetv. Tt Se; elTTOv ovk TJadr^crai 
Tas dvev iTTiaT-qjjLrjs So^as, (vs Trdaai alaxpo.i; 
(Lv at jSeArtcTTat ru^Aat* ■^ SoKovai tL act TV(f)Xa>v 

" The personal or ab urbe condita construction. Cf. 
Thmet. 169 E. 

* The guardians must be able to give a reason, which they 
can do only by reference to the sanction. For the idea that 
the statesman must know better than other men cf. Laws 
968 A, 964 c, 8.58 d-e, 817 c, Xen. Me7n. iii. 6. 8. 

" For the effect of the future perfect rf. 457 b XeX^ferai, 
465 A irpo<TT(Td^€Tai, Eurip. Heracleidae 980 TreTrpd^erat. 

92 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

to whose hands we are to entrust all things ? " 
" Least of all," he said. " 1 fancy, at any rate," said 
I, " that the just and the honourable, if their relation 
and reference to the good is not known," will not have 
secured a guardian * of much worth in the man thus 
ignorant, and my surmise is that no one Asill under- 
stand them adequately before he knows this." " You 
surmise well," he said. " Then our constitution will 
have its perfect and definitive organization" only when 
such a guardian, who knows these things, oversees it." 
X\TII. " Necessarily," he said. " But you your- 
self, Socrates, do you think that knowledge is the 
good or pleasure or something else and different ? " 
" WTiat a man it is," said I ; " you made it very plain"* 
long ago that you would not be satisfied with what 
others think about it." " Why, it does not seem 
right to me either, Socrates," he said, " to be ready to 
state the opinions of others but not one's own when 
one has occupied himself with the matter so long.* " 
" But then," said I, " do you think it right to speak 
as having knowledge about things one does not 
know ? " " By no means," he said, " as having 
knowledge, but one ought to be willing to tell as his 
opinion what he opines." " Nay," said I, " have 
you not observed that opinions divorced from know- 
ledge f are ugly things ? The best of them are 
blind.' Or do you think that those who hold some 

"* For the personal construction c/. 349 e, Isoc. To Nic. 1. 
KaTa<pavi)s is a variation in this idiom for SijXos. Cf. also 
Theaet. 189 c, Syynp. 221 b, Charm. 162 c, etc. 

• Cf. 36T D-E. 

' This is not a contradiction of Meno 97 b, Theaet. 201 b-c, 
and Phileb. 63 a-b, but simply a different context and 
emphasis. Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 47, nn. 338 
and 339. 

• Cf. on 484 c, Phaedr. 270 e. 

93 



PLATO 

Sia(f)€p€iv 686v opdcbs TTopevoficvcov ol avev vov 
dXrjdes TL 8o^dl,ovT€s ; OvSev, etpr]- BoyAei ovv 
D aLa)(pd dedaaadai TV(j)Xd re Kal cr/cdAia, e^ov Trap 
dXXcov aKoveiv <f)avd re Kal KoXd; M17 Trpos Aio?, 
•^ 8' OS, cS Suj/cpares, o TXavKCov, coairep cttI reXei 
a)V aTTOcrrfjs. dp/ce'aei yap rj/JUV, kov coaTrep 
StKaioavvr^S Trepi Kal aaxjipoavvrjs Kal tcov aXXojv 
8ii]X6€s, ovTOi Kal 7T€pl Tov dyadov SUXdrj^. Kat 
yap ifjLOL, rjv S' iyu), w eratpe, Kal pudXa apKeacL' 
dAA' OTTWS fMrj ovx ofds" t' eaofxai, iTpodvp,ovpL€vos 
8e d(y)(rjiiov(i)v yeXojra o^Xiquco. dAA , co fxaKapiot, 
E avTo jxev ri ttot* earl rdyadov, edacofiev ro vvv 
elvai- ttXgov ydp p,oi <f>aiverai n] Kara rr]v rrap- 
ovaav oppLTjv i<f)iK€adai rod ye Sokovvtos efiot ra 
vvv OS Se €Kyov6s re rev dyadov ^aiverat Kat 
opLOioraros eKeivco, Xeyeiv eOeXo), el Kat vpuv 
(f)LXov, el Se jLtT^, edv. 'AAA', ecf>r], Xeye- elaavdis 
ydp rov irarpos dnorlcreLS tt]v hiriyqaiv. Bou- 
507 Xoijxrjv dv, etnov, e'/xe re Svvaadat avrrjv dTToSovvat 



" Probably an allusion to the revelation of the mysteries. 
Cf. Phaedr. 250 c, Phileb. 16 c, Rep. 518 c, 478 c, 479 d, 
518 a. It is fantastic to see in it a reference to what Cicero 
calls the lumina orationis of Isocratean style. The rhetoric 
and synonyms of this passage are not to be pressed. 

* Cf. Phileb. 64 c ^rri /xev rois rod dyadov i^dr] Trpodvpois, 
" we are now in the vestibule of the good." 

* Kal /xaXa, "jolly well," humorous emphasis on the point 
that it is much easier to " define " the conventional virtues 
than to explain the " sanction." Cf. Symp. 189 a, Euthydem. 
298 D-E, Herod, viii. 6Q. It is frequent in the Republic. 
Ritter gives forty-seven cases. I have fifty-four! But the 
point that matters is the humorous tone. Cf. e.g. 610 e. 

•* Excess of zeal, irpodvfila, seemed laughable to the Greeks. 

94> 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

true opinion without intelligence differ appreciably 
from blind men who go the right way ? " " They 
do not differ at all," he said. " Is it, then, ugly things 
that you prefer to contemplate, things bhnd and 
crooked, when you might hear from others what is 
luminous " and fair ? " " Nay, in heaven's name, 
Socrates," said Glaucon, " do not draw back, as it 
were, at the very goal.* For it will content us if 
you explain the good even as you set forth the 
nature of justice, sobriety, and the other virtues." 
" It will right well<^ content me, my dear fellow," I 
said, " but I fear that my powers may fail and that 
in my eagerness I may cut a sorry figure and become 
a laughing-stock.** Nay, my beloved, let us dismiss 
for the time being the nature of the good in itself ; * for 
to attain to my present surmise of that seems a pitch 
above the impulse that wings my flight to-day.^ But 
of what seems to be the offspring of the good and 
most nearly made in its Ukeness' I am willing to 
speak if you too wish it, and otherwise to let the 
matter drop." " Well, speak on," he said, " for you 
will duly pay me the tale of the parent another time." 
" I could wish," I said, " that I were able to make 

Cf. mv interpretation of Iliad i. in fine. Class. Phil. xxil. 
(i927)"pp. ii22-223. 

* Cf. More, Principia Ethica, p. 17 "Good, then, is 
indefinable ; and yet, so far as I know, there is only one 
ethical writer. Professor Henry Sidgwick, who has clearly 
recognized and stated this fact." 

' This is not superstitious mysticism but a deliberate 
refusal to confine in a formula what requires either a volume 
or a symbol. See Introd. p. xxvii, and my Idea of Good in 
Plato's Republic, p. 219. to. vvv repeats to vvv tlvai {cf. Tim. 
48 c), as the evasive phrase flffaCdi^ below sometimes lays the 
topic on the table, never to be taken up again. Cf. 347 e 
and 430 c. 

» Cf. Laics 897 d-e, Phaedr. 246 a. 

95 



PLATO 

KaL vjxds Koiiiaaadai, aAAa ^j] oiarrep vvv rovs 
roKOVs fiovov. rovTov Se Sr] ovv tov tokov re Kat 
CKyovov avTOV rod dyadov KOfjiLcraaOe. evXa^elade 
(livroL fxri tttj i^aTrar'qaa) Vfxds aKcov, KL^SrjXov 
OLTToSiSovs rov Xoyov rod roKov. EuAajSTjcro/xe^a, 
e^ry, Kara Svvafxiv dAAa fiovov Xeye. Ato/jtoAo- 
yr^adfjievos y', €(f>T]v iyco, Kal dvajxviqaa'S vjjidg ra 
r' iv rols eixTrpoadev prjOevra Kal dXXore -^'817 

B TToAAaKts" elp-qjxeva. Tct TTola; rj 8' 6s. IIoAAd 
KoXdy r^v 8' eyctj, /cat TToXXd dyaOd Kat eKacrra 
ovrcos €LvaL 0a/xeV re Kal SiopL^ofxev rep Xoyo). 
Oa/xev yap. Kat avro 877 KaXov Kal avro dyadov 
Kal ovrco Trepl Trdvrwv, d rore co? ttoAAo, endepiev, 
TTaXcv av /car' ISeav pt^iav eKaarov ws jMas ovar^s 
ridivres o eariv eKaarov Trpocrayopevopiev. Ecrrt 
ravra. Kat rd piev Srj opdodai (j)apLev, voetadai, 

C 8' ov, rds 8' av tSea? voeladai piiv, opdaOai, 8 ov. 
YlavrdTTaai pLev ovv. To) ovv opcopiev rjpidjv avrcov 
rd opcopieva; Tfj oxpei, ecjur]. Ovkovv, tjv 8 eyc6, 
Kal dKofj rd aKOVopieva, Kal rals dXXais alad-qaeai 
Trdvra rd alaOr^rd; Tt piT^v; "^Ap' ovv, ■^v 8 eyd), 
iwevoTjKas rov rdJv ala9Tqaea>v hr^pnovpyov oacp 

» This playful interlude relieves the monotony of argument 
and is a transition to the symbolism. rbKos means both 
interest and offspring. Cf. 555 e, Polif. 267 a, Aristoph. 
Clouds 34, Theism. 845, Pindar, 01. x. 12. The equivocation, 
which in other languages became a metaphor, has played a 
great part in the history of opinion about usury. Cf. the 
article " Usury " in Hastings's Encyclopaedia of R^Ug. and 
Ethics, and Antonio's 

. . . when did friendship take 
A breed for barren metal of his friend ? 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

and you to receive the payment and not merely as 
now the interest. But at any rate receive this 
interest " and the offspring of the good. Have a care, 
however, lest I deceive you unintentionally with a 
false reckoning of the interest." " We will do our 
best," he said, " to be on our guard. Only speak on." 
" Yes," I said, "after first coming to an understanding 
with you and reminding vou of what has been said 
here before and often on other occasions.* " "What ?' ' 
said he. " We predicate ' to be ' '^ of many beautiful 
things and many good things, saying of them severally 
that they are, and so define them in our speech. " " We 
do." "And again, we speak of a self-beautiful and of a 
good that is only and merely good, and so, in the 
case of all the things that we then posited as many, 
we turn about and posit each as a single idea or 
aspect, assuming it to be a unity and call it that 
which each really is."* " " It is so." " And the one 
class of things we say can b e seen but not thought, 
while the ideas can be t1l5iight but not seen." " By 
all means." " With which of the parts of ourselves, 
with which of our faculties, then, do we see \isible 
things ? " " With sight," he said. " And do we 
not," I said, " hear audibles with hearing, and per- 
ceive all sensibles with the other senses ? " " Surely." 
" Have you ever observed," said I, " how much the 

* C/. 475 E f. Plato as often begins by a restatement of 
the theory of ideas, i.e. practically of the distinction betw een 
the concept and the objects of sense. Cf. Rep. 596 a if., 
Phofdo 108 B ff. 

* The modern reader will never understand Plato from 
translations that talk about " Being." Cf. What Plato Said, 
p. 605. 

■^ 5 IffTiv is technical for the reality of the ideas. Cf. 
Phaedo 75 b, d, 78 d, Parmen. 129 b, Symp. 211c, R^. 490 b, 
532 A, 597 A. 

VOL. II H 97 



PLATO 

7ro\vT€XeaTdr7]v rrjv rov opdv t€ /cat opdaOai 
SvvafJLiv eSrjfjiLovpyr]cr€v; Ov rrdvv, €(f)7]. 'AAA' 
<LSe (TKOTTei. ear IV 6 tl Trpoahel aKofj /cat cfjcovfj 
yivovs ctAAou els to rrjv p,kv aKovetv, ttjv 8e aKove- 
T) adaL, o idv p,ri TrapayevrjTaL rpirov, rj fiev ovk 
aKovaerai, rj Se ovk aKovadrjaeTai ; Ovhevog, ^<i>f]- 
Olfiai 84 ye, -^v S' eyo), ouS' aAAat? TroAAat?, ti^a 
fiT) etrrco on ovSepud, toiovtov TrpoaheZ ovhevos. rj 
av TLva e^et? eiTTeZv; Ovk eycuye, rj 8' og. Trjv J 
Be rrjs oijjeajs Kal rov oparov ovk evvoels ort " 
77pocrSetTat; Dais'; ^Kvovarjs ttov ev djifxaaiv 
oi/jecos /cat imx^tpovvros rov exovros XPV'^^^'' 
avrfj, TTapovcTTjs 8e ;^pda? ev avrols, edv jjoj 
E TTapayevrjrat, yevog rptrov tSta err* avro rovro 
TcecfiVKO'S, olaOa, on rj re oiJjls ovSev dijjerai rd re 
XpiiiP'CLTa earat, dopara. TtVo? Brj Xeyeis, ecftrj, 
TOVTOv; O 8t) av /caAet?, "^v 8' eyco, (f)(vs- i 
'AXrjdrj, e(j)rj, Xeyeis. Ov ajiiKpd dpa tSea rj tov j 
508 opdv atadrjais /cat rj rov opdadai hvvajxis rcov f 
dXXcov ^v^ev^ecov rifiLCorepco ^vyat et,vyrjaav, etirep 4 
[xrj drcjiov ro (f>CL)s. 'AAAo. pirjv, e(f>rj, ttoXXov ye \ 
Set drijiov elvai. 1 

" Creator, d-q/xiovpyos, God, the gods, and nature, are all 
virtual synonyms in such passages. 

" Cf. Phaedr. 250 d, Tim. 45 b. 

" This is literature, not science. Plato knew that sound 
required a medium, Tim. 67 b. But the statement here is 
true enough to illustrate the thought. 

•* Lit. " kind of thing," yevos. Cf. 507 c-d. 

* Cf. Troland, T/ie Mystery of Mind, p. 82 : " In order that 
there should be vision, it is not sufficient that a physical 
object should exist before the eyes. There must also be a 
source of so-called ' light.' " Cf. Sir John Davies' poem on 
the Soul : 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

greatest expenditure the creator ° of the senses has 
lavished on the faculty of seeing and being seen ? * " 
" \Miy, no, I have not," he said. " Well, look at it 
thus. Do hearing and voice stand in need of another 
medium '^ so that the one may hear and the other be 
heard, in the absence of which third element the 
one \\\]\ not hear and the other not be heard ? " 
" They need nothing," he said. " Neither, I fancy," 
said I, " do many others, not to say that none require 
anything of the sort. Or do you know of any ? " 
" Not I," he said. " But do you not observe that 
vision and the \isible do have this further need ? " 
" How ? " " Though vision may be in the eyes and 
its possessor may try to use it, and though colour be 
present, yet without the presence of a third thing ^ 
specifically and naturally adapted to this purpose, 
you are aware that vision will see nothing and the 
colours will remain invisible.* " " What f is this thing 
of which you speak ? " he said. " The thing," I 
said, " that you call light." " You say truly," he 
replied. " The bond, then, that yokes together visi- 
bility and the faculty of sight is more precious by no 
slight form ^ than that which unites the other pairs, 
if light is not without honour." " It surely is far 
from being so," he said. 

But as the sharpest eye discemeth nought 
Except the sunbeams in the air do shine ; 
So the best soul with her reflecting thought 
Sees not herself without some light divine. 

' Plato would not have tried to explain this loose colloquial 
genitive, and we need not. 

» The loose Herodotean-Thucydidean-Isocratean use of 
/5^o. Cf. Laves 689 d »cai to iTM'fporarov eI5os. " Form " 
over-translates ioeq. here, which is little more than a synonym 
for 76'os above. Cf. Wilamowitz, Platon, ii. p. 250. 

99 



PLATO 
XIX. TiVa ovv €X€is alridaaaOai rcov iv ovpavco 

OeWV TOVTOV KVpiOV, oS rj/XLV TO (f)COS OlfjLV T€ TTOLel 

opdv 6 TL Ka.XX.iara /cat ret opwpLeva opdadai; 
"Ovnep Kal av, ecjirj, /cat ol d'AAof rov 'qXiov yap 
SrjXov OTL epcoras. Ap ovv c58e 7Te(f)VK€v oipis 
TTpos TOVTOV Tov deov ; ricus'; Ou/c eonv rjXios rj 
oipLS ovre avTT] ovt€ ev at eyyiyverai, o Srj Ka- 
li Xovfjuev ofifMa. Ov yap ovv. 'AAA' T^AtoetSeWarov 
ye olp.ai twv rrepl tcls alaO-qaeis opydvcov. IloAi; 
ye. OvKOvv /cat ttjv SvvajXLv, iqv exec, e/c tovtov 
rafjuevofiev-qv cooTrep errippvTov KeKrrjTai; Udvv 
fxev ovv. ^Ap ovv ov Kal 6 rjXiog oi/jcs fxev ovk 
eoTiv, aiTios 8' ivv avTrjs opdrai vtt* avrijs TavTTjs; 

" Plato was willing to call the stars gods as the barbarians 
did {Cratyl. 397 d, Aristoph. Peace 406 ff., Herod, iv. 188). 
Cf. Laws 821 b, 899 b, 950 d, Apol. 26 d, Epinomis 985 b, 
988 B. 

*" Cf. my Idea of Good in Plato's Bepublie, pp. 223-225, 
Reinhardt, Kosmos und Sympathie, pp. 374-384, Arnold, 
" Mycerinus " : 

Yet, surely, O my people, did I deem 
Man's justice from the all-just Gods was given; 
A light that from some upper fount did beam. 
Some better archetype, whose seat was heaven ; 
A light that, shining from the blest abodes. 
Did shadow somewhat of the life of Gods. 

Complete Poems of Henry More, p. 77 : 

Lift myself up in the Theologie 
Of heavenly Plato. There I '11 contemplate 
The Archetype of this sunne, that bright Idee 
Of steddie Good, that doth his beams dilate 
Through all the worlds, all lives and beings 
propagate . . . 

... a fair delineament 
Of that which Good in Plato's school is hight. 
His T'agathon with beauteous rayes bedight. 

100 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

XIX. " Which one can you name of the divinities 
in heaven " as the author and cause of this, whose light 
makes our vision see best and visible things to be 
seen ? " " Why, the one that you too and other people 
mean," he said ; " for your question evidently refers to 
the sun.* " " Is not this, then, the relation of vision to 
that divinity ? " "What?" " Neither vision itself nor 
its vehicle, which we call the eye, is identical with the 
sun." " Why, no." " But it is, I think, the most 
sunlike <= of all the instruments of sense." " By far the 
most." " And does it not receive the power which 
it possesses as an influx, as it were, dispensed from 
the sun ? " " Certainly." " Is it not also true that 
the sun is not vision, yet as being the cause •* thereof 

Mediaeval writers have much to say of Plato's mysterious 
Tagathon. Aristotle, who rejects the idea of good, uses 
rdyadov in much the same way. 

It is naive to take the language of Platonic unction too 
literally. Cf. What Plato Said, pp. 394 ff. 

* Cf. 509 A, Plotinus, Enn. i. 6. 9 ov yap clv wJjwoTe elofv 
6<f>da\ui6s ij\Loi> TjXioeidrjs fir] yeyevrifiivos and vi. 7. 19, Cic. 
Tusc. i. 25. 63 in fine " quod si in hoc mundo fieri sine deo 
non potest, ne in sphaera quidem eosdem motus Archimedes 
sine divino ingenio potuisset imitare," Manilius ii. 115: 



quis caelum posset nisi caeli munere nosse, 
et reperire deum nisi qui pars ipse deorum ? 



Goethe's 



War' nicht das Auge sonnenhaft. 
Die Sonne konnt es nie erblicken. 



and Goethe to Eckermann, Feb. 26, 1824: " Hatte ich nicht 
die Welt durch Anticipation bereits in mir getragen, ich ware 
mit sehenden Augen blind geblieben." 
•* Cf. Complete Poems of Henry More, p. 113: 



Behold a fit resemblance of this truth. 

The Sun begetteth both colours and sight . . ., etc. 



101 



PLATO 

OvTOJS, '^ S' OS. TovTOV TOLVvv, rjv S' eyojy (f)avai 
fxe Xeyetv rov rod dyadov eKyovov, ov rayadov 

C iyevvrjaev avdXoyov iavTco, 6 n Trep avro ev ro) 
vorjTcp TOTTCp TTpos r€ vovv Kal rd voov/xeva, tovto 
TOVTOV iv Tcp opaTCp TTpos TC otfjiv Kat ra opa)[X€va, 
Ucbs; e(f)rj' eVt SteA^e fxoL. 'O^^aA/xot, rjv S 
iyco, olad* on, oTav fxrjKCTL in' CKelvd tis avTovs 
TpeTTTj wv dv TO,? XP^*^^ "^^ 'qfxepLVOv (f)a>s eVe'^T?, 
dAAct Sv vvKTeptvd (f)eyyr], djx^XvcoTTovcn, re /cat 
iyyvs (f)aivovTat TV(f)Xa)v, coairep ovk evovarjs 
KaOapds oifjecos; Kat fidXa, ecjyr). "Otuv 8e y , 

D ot/xat, Sv 6 tJXios KaraXdfJLTTei, aacf>cus opdJai, Kat 
TOLs avTOLS TOVTOLS opLpbaoLV ivovoa ^atVerat. Tt 
pi'qv; OvTCO TOLVVV /cat to ttjs 4'^XV^ '^^^ voei- 

I OTav fxev, ov KaTaXdfMTrei dX-qd.etd re /cat to 6v, et? 
tovto d7T€p€Lar]Taiy ivorjoi re /cat eyvon avTO /cat 
vovp ^X^^^ (f>aiveTaL' oTav 8e et? to to; okoto) 
KeKpajxevov, to ytyvofxevov tc /cat d7TO?^Xv{j,evov, 
So^a^ei T6 /cat dfi^XvcoTTei dvco /cat /caTa> Tct? 
So^a? ficTa^dXXov /cat eocKcv ad vovv ovk cxovtl. 

E'EoiKe ya/). Touto tolvvv to ttjv dX-^deiav rrapixov 
Tols yiyvojoKOfxevoLs Kal tco yiyvojoKovTi ttjv 

" I.e. creation was the work of benevolent design. This is 
one of the few passages in the Republic where the idea of 
good is considered in relation to the universe, a thesis re- 
served for poetical or mythical development in the Timaeus. 
It is idle to construct a systematic metaphysical theology for 
Plato by identification of rayaObv here either with God or 

102 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

is beheld by vision itself? " " That is so," he said. 
" This, then, you must understand that I meant by the 
offspring of the good ° which the good begot to stand 
in a proportion * with itself : as the good is in the in- 
telligible region to reason and the objects of reason, 
so is this in the visible world to vision and the objects 
of vision." " How is that ? " he said; " explain 
further." " You are aware," I said, " that when the 
eyes are no longer turned upon objects upon whose 
colours the hght of day falls but that of the dim 
luminaries of night, their edge is blunted and they 
appear almost blind, as if pure vision did not dwell 
in them." " Yes, indeed," he said. " But when, I 
take it, they are directed upon objects illumined by 
the sun, they see clearly, and vision appears to reside 
in these same eyes." " Certainly." " Apply this 
comparison to the soul also in this way. Wlien it is 
firmly fixed on the domain where truth and reality 
shine resplendent ' it apprehends and knows them and 
appears to possess reason ; but when it inclines to 
that region which is mingled with darkness, the world 
of becoming and passing away, it opines only and its 
edge is blunted, and it shifts its opinions hither and 
thither, and again seems as if it lacked reason." " Yes, 
it does." " This reality, then, that gives their truth to 
the objects of knowledge and the power of knowing 

with the ideas as a whole. Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, 
p. 512. 

* Cf. Gctrg. 46.'^ b-c, infra 510 a-b, 511 e, 5.S0 d, 534 a, 
576 c, Phaedo 111 a-b, Tim. 29 c, 32 a-b. For aviXoyov 
in this sense c/. 511 e, aSi a, Phaedo 110 d. 

' Plato's rhetoric is not to be pressed. Truth, being, the 
good, are virtual synonyms. Still, for Plato's ethical and 
political philosophy the light that makes things intelligible 
is the idea of good, i.e. the "sanction," and not, as some 
commentators insist, the truth. 

103 



PLATO 

hvvafxiv aTTohihov rrjv rod dyadov ISeav </)ddi elvai, 
airiav 8' eTTiarrnxrjs ovaav /cat dXrjdeias cos 
yiyvataKOfxevrjs jjcev htavoov, ovrco Se KaXwv 
d[ji(f)OT€pojv ovTCOv, yvcocr€(x)s re Kal dXrjOetas, ctAAo 
/cat /caAAtov ert Tovrwv '^yovfxevos avro opdcos 
rjyqaef iTTiar-^ixrjv Se /cat dX-r^deiav, wairep cKel 
509 (jicos re /cat oiptv rjXLoetSi] fjuev vo/itt^etv opdov, '^Xlov 
8e rjyetcrdai, ovk opOcbs e'x^'' oyrcu /cat ivTavda 
ayadoetSrj p.€v vo/xi^eiv ravr' dpLi^orepa opdov, 
ayadov Se rjyeladai oirorepov avru>v ovk opdov, 
dXX* €Ti iJL€tl,6vcos TifjirjTeov TTjv rov dyadov e^iv. 
Afi'qxo.vov KaXXos, €(f)r], XeycLs, et imar'qiJLiqv 
fxev /cat dXT]9€Lav napix^i, avTO S' virep ravra 
KoXXei icTTLv ov yap StJttov av ye rjSovrjv avro 



" No absolute distinction can be drawn between etSos and 
id^a in Plato. But id4a may be used to carry the notion of 
"apprehended aspect" which I think is more pertinent here 
than the metaphysical entity of the idea, though of course 
Plato would affirm that. Cf. 369 a, Unity of Plato's Thought, 
p. 35, What Plato Said, p. 585, Class. Phil. xx. (1925) p. 347. 

* The meaning is clear. We really understand and know 
anything only when we apprehend its purpose, the aspect of 
the good that it reveals. Cf. Introd. pp. xxxv-xxxvi. The 
position and case of yLyvwcrKoiJ^prjs are difficult. But no 
change proposed is any improvement. 

' Plato likes to cap a superlative by a further degree 
of completeness, a climax beyond the climax. Cf. 405 b 
aiaxKTTov . . . aiffx^ov, 578 B, Symp. 180 a-b and Bury ad 
loc. The same characteristic can be observed in his method, 
e.g. in the Symposium where Agathon's speech, which seems 
the climax, is surpassed by that of Socrates ; similarly in the 
Gorgias and the tenth book of the Republic. Cf. Friedlander, 
Plat on, i. p. 174, supra Introd. p. Ixi. 

This and the next half page belong, I think, to rhetoric 
rather than to systematic metaphysics. Plato the idealist 
uses transcendental language of his ideal, and is never willing 
104 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

to the knower, you must say is the idea " of good, and 
you must conceive it as being the cause of knowledge, 
and of truth in so far as known. ** Yet fair as they both 
are, knowledge and truth, in supposing it to be some- 
thing fairer still ^ than these you will think rightly 
of it. But as for knowledge and truth, even as in 
our illustration it is right to deem light and vision 
sunlike, but never to think that they are the sun, so 
here it is right to consider these two their counter- 
parts, as being like the good or boniform,'' but to think 
that either of them is the good * is not right. Still 
higher honour belongs to the possession and habit ^ of 
the good." "An inconceivable beauty you speak of," 
he said, " if it is the source of knowledge and truth, 
and yet itself surpasses them in beauty. For you 
surely' cannot mean that it is pleasure." " Hush," 

to admit that expression has done justice to it. But Plato 
the rationalist distinctly draws the line between his relig^ious 
language thrown out at an object and his definite logical and 
practical conclusions. Cf. e.g. Meno 81 i>-e. 

•* d-fadoei5ri occurs only here in classical Greek literature. 
Plato quite probably coined it for hLs purpose. 

* There is no article in the Greek. Plato is not scrupulous 
to distinguish good and the good here. Cf. on 505 c, p. 89, 
note /. 

' ?$t$ is not yet in Plato quite the technical Aristotelian 
"habit." However Protag. 344 c approaches it. Cf. also 
Phileb. 11 D, 41 c, Ritter-Preller, p. 285. 

Plato used many words in periphrasis with the genitive, 
e.g. I^is Laws 6-25 c, yevfo-is Latrs 691 b, Tim. 73 b, 76 e, 
fulpa Phaedr. 255 b, 274 e, Menex. 249 b, (jiiVu Phaedo 
109 E, Symp. 186 b. Laics 729 c, 845 d, 944 d, etc. He may 
have chosen f^'ij here to suggest the ethical aspect of the 
good as a habit or possession of the soul. The introduction 
of iidovri below supports this view. Some interpreters think 
it = T6 d7a^6»' ws ?x*'» which is possible but rather pointless. 

' For oil yap drprov cf. ApoL 20 c, Gorg. 455 a, Euthyph. 
13 a. 

105 



PLATO 

Xeyeis. Ey<^ryju.ei, ■^v S' iyco' dAA' S8e /jLoiXAov 
B T-qv eiKova avrov en i-maKOTret. Ylws; Tov 
tJXlov tols opojfxeuoL? ov ybovov, oi/xat, ttjv tou 
opdadai BvvafiLv rrapex^LV (furjoeis, aAAa /cat tt^v 
yei'ecrii' /cat av^riv /cat rpocb-nv, ov yeveaiv avrov 
ovra. Llajs yap; rvat toij yiyvojaKOfievois rotvvv 
fit] fxovov TO ytyvcoaKeaOai ^dvai vtto rov dyaOov 
TTapelvat, dXXd /cat ro elvai re /cat rriv ovaiav vtt* 
eK€Lvov avTOLs TTpoaetvai, ovk ovcnas ovtos tov 
ayadoVy dAA' ert eTre/cetva t'^s" ovaias irpea^eia 
/cat hvvdpiei VTrepexovros. 
C XX. Kat d rAay/cojr jitdAa yeAoto)?, "AttoAAoi^, 
6(^17, Saifiovias VTrep^oXrjs ! 2u 7ctp> ''?^' S' eyciJ, 
atTio?, avayKdl^cov rd efiol SoKoGvra nepl avrov 
Aeyeiv, Kat fjLrjSap.a>s y' , e^^, navar), et /X17 rt 
dAAd rrjv vrept rdi' tJXlov opioiorr^ra av Ste^tcpv, et 
777^ a77-oAet77eis'. 'AAAd pi'^v, clttov, avxvd ye dno- 

<» i.e. not only do we understand a thing when we know 
its purpose, but a purpose in some mind is the chief cause of 
its existence, God's mind for the universe, man's mind for 
political institutions. This, being the only interpretation 
that makes sense of the passage, is presumably more or less 
consciously Plato's meaning. Cf. Introd. pp. xxxv-xxxvi. 

Quite irrelevant are Plato's supposed identification of the 
ayaOov with the eV, one, and Aristotle's statement, Met. 
988 a, that the ideas are the cause of other things and the 
one is the cause of the ideas. 

The remainder of the paragraph belongs to transcendental 
rhetoric. It has been endlessly quoted and plays a great 
part in Neoplatonism, in all philosophies of the unknowable 
and in all negative and mystic theologies. 

^ It is an error to oppose Plato here to the Alexandrians 
who sometimes said iir^Keiva tov ovtos. Plato's sentence 
would have made dfros very inconvenient here. But dvai 
shows that ovaias is not distinguished from tov dfTos here. 
iiriK€Lva became technical and a symbol for the transcendental 
106 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

said I, " but examine the similitude of it still further 
in this way.** " " How ? " " The sun, I presume you 
-will say, not only furnishes to visibles the power of 
visibility but it also provides for their generation and 
growth and nurture though it is not itself generation." 
" Of course not." " In Uke manner, then, you are 
to say that the objects of knowledge not only receive 
from the presence of the good their being known, but 
their very existence and essence is_derived to them 
from it, though the good itself is not essence but still 
transcends essence ^ in dignity and surpassing power." 
XX. And Glaucon very ludicrously " said, " Heaven 
save us, hyperbole'* can no further go." " The fault 
is yours," I said, " for compelling me to utter my 
thoughts about it." " And don't desist," he said, 
" but at least * expound the simiUtude of the sun, if 
there is anything that you are omitting. " " Why, cer- 
tainly," I said, " I am omitting a great deal." " Well, 

in Neoplatonism and all similar philosophies. Cf. Plotinus 
xvii. 1, Dionysius Areop. De divinis noininibus, ii. 2, Fried- 
lander, Platon, i. p. 87. 

' He is amused at Socrates' emphasis. Fanciful is Wila- 
mowitz' notion (Platon, i. p. 209) that the laughable thing 
is Glaucon's losing control of himself, for which he com- 
pares Aristoph. Birds 61. C/. the extraordinary comment 
of Proclus, p. 265. 

The dramatic humour of Glaucon's surprise is Plato's way 
of smiling at himself, as he frequently does in the dialogues. 
Cf. 536 B, 540 B, Lysis 223 b, Protag. 340 e. Charm. 175 e, 
Cratyl. 426 b. Theatt. 200 b, 197 d, etc. Cf. Friedlander, 
Platon, i. p. 172 on the Phaedo. 

•* "What a combU\'^ would be nearer the tone of the 
Greek. There is no good English equivalent for vxtp^oX^s. 
Cf. Sir Thomas Browne's remark that " nothing can be 
said hyperbolically of God."' The banter here relieves the 
strain, as is Plato's manner. 

• Cf. 502 A, Symp. 222 e, Meno 86 e. 

107 



PLATO 

AeiTTO). M^ySe afjiiKpou tolvvv, ^c/ir], TrapaXiTrr]? . 
Otfiai jxev, rjv S' iyco, /cat ttoXv- ofiojs Se, oaa y 
€v rep TTapovTL Svvarov, eKwv ovk (XTroXeLi/jco . Mi^ 

D yet/), ^4'V' Ndrjcrov roivvv, rjv 8' iyo), uiOTrep 
XeyojJLev, Svco avTcb etvaL, /cat ^aaiXeveiv to pikv 
voTjTOV yevovs re /cat tottov, to 8' av oparov, tva 
pbT] ovpavou etTTcbv So^to CTot ao(j)it,eadaL Trepi to 
ovojxa. dAA' ow e'xet? ravra StTTCt et'Sry, oparov, 
vorjrov; "Kxco- "QoTrep roivvv ypafifxrjv Blxo- 
rerjjir^iJLevTjv Xa^ujv aviaa} rp,r]p,ara, ttolXlv repLve 
eKarepov rpLrjpia dva rov avrov Xoyov, ro re rod 
6pcop,€vov y€vovs /cat to tou voovpLevov, /cat ctoi 
eCTTat (ja(f>r]V€Lq. /cat doa^etct Trpos d'AArjAa iv juev 

E to) opwpivcp ro puev erepov rp,7Jpia eiKoveg. Xeyo) 
510 8e Tcts" eiKovag Trpcorov piev to,? OKids, eveira ra 
iv roZs vBaai, cfyavrdapLara /cat iv rots oaa irvKva 
T€ /cat Aeta /cat ^avd ^vvecrrrjKe, /cat Trdv ro 
roiovrov, el Karavoels. 'AAAd Karavoco.i To toi- 
vvv erepov rldei S rovro eot/ce, tci re irepl rjpids 
^dja /cat TTav ro <j)vrevrdv /cat ro aKevaarov oXov 
yevos. TldripiLy e<j)ri. ^H /cat iOeXoig dv avro 
(f)dvai, rjv 8' iyo), Strjprjadai dXrjdeLO. re /cat pLT^, 
cos TO So^aorov irpos ro yvcoarov, ovrto ro OjxoLOjdev 

B npos ro S djpoicodrj ; "Eycoy', e^^, /cat /xdAa. 
2/co77et S17 av /cat ti^v tou vorjrov rop,rjv ^ rpirjreov. 
^ dvLffa ADM Proclus, dv, Ua F, dv taa Stallbaum. 

" Cf. the similar etymological pun in Crafi/l. t\96 b-c. 
Here, as often, the translator must choose between over- 
translating for some tastes, or not translating at all, 

* The meaning is given in the text. Too many com- 
mentators lose the meaning in their study of the imagery. 
Cf. the notes of vVdam, Jowett, Campbell, and Apelt. See 
Introd. p. xxxi for my interpretation of the passage. 

" Some modern and ancient critics prefer dv' laa. It is a 
108 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

don't omit the least bit," he said. " I fancy," I said, 
" that I shall have to pass over much, but nevertheless 
so far as it is at present practicable I shall not will- 
ingly leave anything out." " Do not," he said. 
" Conceive then," said I, " as we were saying, that 
there are these two entities, and that one of them is 
sovereign over the intelligible order and region and the 
other over the world of the eye-ball, not to say the 
sky-ball," but let that pass. You surely apprehend the 
two types, the visible and the intelligible." "I do." 
" Represent them then, as it were, by a line divided *" 
into two unequal^ sections and cut each section again 
in the same ratio (the section, that is, of the visible 
and that of the intelligible order), and then as an ex- 
pression of the ratio of their comparative clearness 
and obscurity you will have, as one of the sections of 
the visible world, images. By images '^ I mean; first, 
shadows, and then reflections in water and on surfaces 
of dense, smooth and bright texture, and everything 
of that kind, if you apprehend." " I do." J^' As the 
second section assume that of which this is a likeness 
or an image, that is, the animals about us and all plants 
and the whole class of objects made by man." " I so 
assume it," he said. " Would you be wilhng to say," 
said I, " that the divisioo -Ln respect of reality and truth 
or the opposite is expressed by the proportion : * as is 
the opinable to the knowable so is the hkeness to that of 
which it is a likeness ? " "I certainly would." " Con- 
sider then again the way in which we are to make the 
division of the intelUgible section," " In what way? " 

little more plausible to make the sections unequal. But again 
there is doubt which shall be longer, the higher as the more 
honourable or the lower as the more multitudinous. Cf. Plut. 
Flat. Quest. 3. <* Cf. supra 402 b, Soph. 266 b-c. 

• Cf. supra on 508 c, p. 103. note b. 

109 



PLATO 

IIt^; *Ht TO fx€v avTov rot? totc r/jLTjOeiaiv^ los 
eLKoat XP^I^^^V ^^XV ^'^Telv dvayKa^erat, i^ vtto- 
Oeaecov, ovk ctt' dpxrjv TTopevofxivr], dAA' inl reXev- 
Tr\v, TO o av erepov eir ap)(rjv avvTToUeTOV eg 
VTTodecreojs Lovcra Kal dvev SvTrep eKctvo eiKovcov 
avTOLS etSecrt Si' avTcbv ttjv jxiQohov 7TOLOvp,evr]. 
Taur', €07^, a Aeyet?, ovx tKavcos efiaOov. 'AAA' 

C avdi<s, riv 8' eyw' paov yap tovtcdp TTpoeiprjfxevojv 
ixadriaei. oljxaL yap ae elSevai, on ol Trepl tols 
yeco/Aerpta? re Kal Xoyiapiovs Kal to, TOiavTa 
TTpayfiaTevofievoi, vrrodefjievoi, to re rrepiTTOv Kal 
TO dpTiov Kal TO. a-x/ipiara Kal ycovLcov TpiTTO, e'lSr] 
Kal aAAa tovtcov aSeA^a Kad^ eKaaT'qv fiedoSov, 
TavTa [jL€v <x)s elSoTcs, TTOirjadpLevoi viroOeaeis aura, 
ovheva Aoyoi' ovre avroZs ovre dXXots en d^tovai 
TTepi avToJv StSovai cl)? ttovtI <j>av€pdi)v, e/c tovtcx^v 

D S dpxdfievoi Ta Xotna TJBr) Sie^iovTCS TeXevTCoaiv 

OjUoAoyoy/xeVco? em tovto, ov dv errl aKei/jiv opfx'q- 

acoaiv. Udvv fiev ovv, €(f}rj, tovto ye olSa. Ovk- 

^ Tfj.ridelaii' DM, fMHTjOelffiv A Proclus, Tifj.r}9e?cnv F. 
2 [t6] eir' Ast, 

" Cf. my Idea of Oood in Plato's Republic, pp. 230-234, for 
the dvinrddeTov. Ultimately, the awwoderov is the Idea of 
Good so far as we assume that idea to be attainable either 
in ethics or in physics. But it is the Idea of Good, not as a 
transcendental outological mystery, but in the ethical sense 
already explained. The ideal dialictician is the man who 
can, if challenged, run his reasons for any given proposition 
back, not to some assumed axioma medium, but to its 
relation to ultimate Good. To call the a.vvw66eTov the Uncon- 
ditioned or the Absolute introduces metaphysical associations 
foreign to the passage. Gf. also Introd. pp. xxxiii-xxxlv. 

* The practical meaning of this is independent of the 
disputed metaphysics. Cf. Introd. pp. xvi-xviii. 

110 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

" By the distinction that there is one section of it 
which the soul is compelled to investigate by treating 
as images the things imitated in the former di^'ision, 
and by means of assumptions from which it proceeds 
not up to a first principle but down to a conclusion, 
while there is another section in which it advances 
from its assumption to a beginning or principle that 
transcends assumption," and in which it makes no use 
of the images employed by the other section, relying 
on ideas * only and progressing systematically through 
ideas." " I don't fully understand'' what you mean 
by this," he said. " Well, I ^%ill tr\' again," said I, " for 
you will better understand after this preamble. For 
I think you are aware that students of geometry and 
reckoning and such subjects first postulate the odd 
and the even and the various figures and three kinds 
of angles and other things akin to these in each 
branch of science, regard them as known, and, treat- 
ing them as absolute assumptions, do not deign to 
render any further account of them ** to themselves or 
others, taking it for granted that they are ob\ious to 
everybody. They take their start from these, and 
pursuing the inquiry from this point on consistently, 
conclude with that for the investigation of which they 
set out." " Certainly," he said, " I know that." 

« Cf. Vol. I. p. 79, note c on 347 a and p. -47, note / on 
S38 D ; What Plato Said, p. 503 on Gorg. 463 d. 

•* Aristot. Top. 100 b 2-3 ov Sd yap iv ratj inaTJifjioviKaTi 
dpxM evi^rjreiadai to 5ia ri, exactly expresses Plato's thought 
and the truth, though Aristotle may have meant it mainly 
for the principle of non-contradiction and other first principles 
of logic. Cf. the mediaeval " contra principium negantem 
non est disputandum." A teacher of geometry will refuse 
to discuss the psychology of the idea of space, a teacher of 
chemistry will not permit the class to ask whether matter is 
" real." 

Ill 



PLATO 

ovv Kal on rols opcofxevois etSecri TrpoaxpoJVTaL Kal 
Tovs Xoyovs TTepi avTOJv TTOiovvrai, ov nepl tovtoiv 
Siavoovfievoi, aAA' eKctvcov -nipi, ols ravra eoiKe, 
Tov rerpayoivov avrov eveKa rovg Xoyovs voiov- 
fievoL Kal Siafxerpov avrrjg, aAA' ov Tavrrjs rjv 
J] ypd(l)Ovai, Kal raAAa ovrcos, ayra fxev ravra, a 
irXdrrovai re Kal ypdcj)ovaLv, d)v Kal oKial Kal ev 
vSaaiv eiKoves elai, rovrois p-ev ws eiKootv av 
Xpdi)p,evoL, t,7]rovvr€s 8e avrd eKelva IheZv, a ovk 
511 av dXXa)s tSot rts" '^ ttj hiavoia. ^AXrjOrj, €(f)r], 
Ae'yei?. 

XXI.TouTO roLvvv vorjrov p,€v ro elSos eXeyov, 
VTTodeaeai S' dvayKat,opLevr]v ipv^'^v xpfjcrdai Trepl 
TTjv l^rjrrjatv avrov, ovk €tt' d-px^v tovaav, (hs ov 
SvvapevTjv rojv VTTodeaecov dvojrepoj eK^aiveiv, 
CLKoaL 8e XP^H'^^^ avrols tols vtto rcov Kdrco 
dTTeiKaadeZaL Kal eKeivois Trpos eKelva cos ivapyeai 
SeSo^acTjueVois' Te /cat rerLpnqpLCVOLs. M.av6dvcv, 
B e^T], on ro vtto rats yea) pier piais re Kal rats 
ravrrjg dSeXtpals re^vaLS Xeyeig. To roivvv erepov 
[xdvdave Tp,rjp, ov vo-qrov Xeyovrd p.e rovro, ov 
avros 6 Xoyos dirrerai rfj rov SiaXeyeadai Svvdpei, 

" Cf. 527 A-B. This explanation of mathematical reasoning 
does not differ at all from that of Aristotle and Berkeley and 
the moderns who praise Aristotle, except that the meta- 
physical doctrine of ideas is in the background to be asserted 
if challenged. 

^ i.e. a bronze sphere would be the original of its imitative 
reflection in water, but it is in turn only the imperfect 
imitation of the mathematical idea of a sphere. 

" Stenzel, Handbuch, 118 "das er nur mit dem Verstande 
(BLavoiq.) sieht " is mistaken, diavolq. is used not in its special 
sense ("understanding." Seep. 116, note c), but generally 
for the mind as opposed to the senses. Cf. 511 c. 

•* For the concessive /xev cf. 546 e, 529 d, Soph. 225 c. 

112 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

" And do you not also know that they further make 
use of the \isible forms and talk about them, though 
they are not thinking of them but of those things of 
which they are a likeness, pursuing their inquire' for 
the sake of the square as such and the diagonal as 
such, and not for the sake of the image of it which 
they draw" ? And so in all cases. The ver}' things 
which they mould and draw, which have shadows and 
images of themselves in water, these things they treat 
in their turn * as only images, but what they really 
seek is to get sight of those realities which can be 
seen only by the mind.'' " " True," he said. 

XXI. " This then is the class that I described as 
intelligible, it is true,** but with the reservation first 
that the soul is compelled to employ assumptions in 
the investigation of it, not proceeding to a first prin- 
ciple because of its inabihty to extricate itself from 
and rise above its assumptions, and second, that it 
uses as images or hkenesses the very objects that are 
themselves copied and adumbrated by the class below 
them, and that in comparison with these latter* are 
esteemed as clear and held in honour.^ " " I under- 
stand," said he, "that you are spea? '^ of what falls 
under geometry and the kindred arts." " Under- 
stand then," said I, " that by the other section of 
the intelligible I mean that which the reason ' itself 
lays hold of by the power of dialectics,* treating its 

• The loosely appended dative iKtlvon is virtually a dative 
absolute. Cf.PhaedolOSx. Wilamowitz' emendation (P/a/o«, 
ii. p. 384) to 7rp6s iKetva, Kal ^Keivois rests on a misunder- 
standing of the passage. 

' The translation of this sentence is correct. But c/, 
Adam ad loc. 

' \6yos here suggests both the objective personified argu- 
ment and the subjective faculty. 

* C/. 533 A, Phileb. 57 e. 

VOL, II I 113 



PLATO 

rag virodiaeis iroiovficvos ovk apxas, aAAo. to) 
OVTL VTTodeaeis, oTov eTn^aaei? re Kal opixds, Iva. 
fi^xpi' Tov avvTToderov cttI Tr]V tov Travrog ^PXW 
icoVfij a^d/xevos avrrj?, TrdXiv av ixofJt.€vog tojv 
eKeivTjs ixofievcov, ovrojs inl reXevrrjv Kara^aivr], 
C ataOrjTO) TTavrd-naaLV ovhevl Trpoaxpcjof-tevos , oAA 
eiSeacv avrois hi avratv els avrd, Kal reXevTO. ei? 
etSrj. Mavddvcti, €(f)rj, tKavws fJLev ov — So/cei? ydp 
fioL avxvov epyov Xeyeiv — on fievrot ^ovXei 8i- 
opll^eLv aa(f)€aT€pov elvai to vtto rijs tov SiaXeyeadai 
eTTiar-^fxr^S tov ovtos tc Kal vot]tov deoipovpuevov 

7] TO VTTO TCOV T€XV0)V KaXoV pL€Vil)V , OLS ttt U770- 

deaeis dpxoX Kal Siavota pcev dvayKa^ovTai dXXd /lit) 
D aladriaeaiv aura dedadai ol decvpLevot, Sta Se to 

flTj 677* apX^jV dveXdoVTCS OKOTTelv, oAA' €^ VTTO- 

deaecov, vovv ovk tax^LV irepl avTo. hoKovai aoi, 

" ry 6i'Ti emphasizes the etymological meaning of the word. 
Similarly ws dXT/StSs in 551 e, Phaedo 80 d, Phileb. 64 e. For 
hypotheses cf. Bumet, Greek Philosophy, p. 229, Thompson 
on Meno 86 e. But the thing to note is that the word accord- 
ing to the context may emphasize the arbitrariness of an 
assumption or the fact that it is the starting-point — d/>x^ 
—of the inquiry. 

' Cf. Symp. 211 c iaairep ^irava^dcrfiois, "like steps of a 
stair." 

* 7ra;'T5s dpxv" taken literally lends support to the view 
that Plato is thinking of an absolute first principle. But in 
spite of the metaphysical suggestions for practical purposes 
the iravrbs dpxv may be the virtual equivalent of the Uapdv 
of the Phaedo. It is the dpx-n on which all in the particular 
case depends and is reached by dialectical agreement, not by 
arbitrary assumption. Cf. on 510 b, p. 110, note a. 

114 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

assumptions not as absolute beginnings but literally 
as hypotheses,** underpinnings, footings,^ and spring- 
boards so to speak, to enable it to rise to that which 
requires no assumption and is the starting-point of 
all," and after attaining to that again] taking hold of 
the first dependencies from it, so to proceed down- 
ward to the conclusion, making no use whatever of 
any object of sense "* but only of pure ideas mo\-ing 
on through ideas to ideas and ending with ideas. *" " 
" I understand," he said ; " not fully, for it is no 
slight task that you appear to have in mind, but I do 
understand that you mean to distinguish the aspect 
of reality and the intelHgible, which is contemplated 
by the power of dialectic, as something truer and 
more exact than the object of the so-called arts and 
sciences whose assumptions are arbitrary starting- 
points. And though it is true that those who con- 
template them are compelled to use their understand- 
ing / and not their senses, yet because they do not go 
back to the beginning in the study of them but start 
from assumptions you do not think they possess true 

^ This is one of the passages that are misused to attribute 
to Plato disdain for experience and the perceptions of the 
senses. C/. on 530 b, p. 187, note c. The dialectician is able 
to reason purely in concepts and words without recurring 
to images. Plato is not here considering how much or 
little of his knowledge is ultimately derived from experience. 

• The description undoubtedly applies to a metaphysical 
philosophy that deduces all things from a transcendent first 
principle. I have never denied that. The point of my 
interpretation is that it also describes the method which 
distinguishes the dialectician as such from the man of science, 
and that this distinction is for practical and educational 
purposes the chief result of the discussion, as Plato virtually 
says in the next few lines. C/. What Plato Said, pp. 233-234. 

' Siapoij} here as in 511 a is general and not technical. 

115 



PLATO 

KaiTOL voYjTcov ovTiov ybeTCL dpxrjs. Sidvoiav 8e 
KaXetv jLtot SoK€Ls rrjv tcov yeojyierpiKchv re koI 
Tr]v T(x)v ToiovTcov e^iv dAA' ov vovv, (Ls nera^v ri 
h6^r]s re /cat vov rrjv SidvoLav ovarav. 'iKavwrara, 
■^v 8' eydoy drrehe^oi. Kai fioi cttI rols rerrapcn 
rfjurjixaaL rerrapa ravra Trad-qfiara ev rfj ipvxf) 
yiyvofieva Xa^e, voiqaLV fxev cttl r<x> dviordrcj, 
E hidvoiav Se eVt ro) hevrepcp, ro) rpirco Se TrCariv 
diToSos Kal rip reXevraio) elKaaiav, /cat rd^ov 
avrd dvd Xoyov, cooTrep e(j>^ ols eariv dXrjdeias 
fierex^i'V, ovrco ravra aa(f>r]V€Las rjyr^adixevos fxer- 
ex^iv. Mavddvio, e(f)r], Kal ^vyxojpdj /cat rdrrco d)s 
XeyeiS' 



" vovv ovK Icrxeiv is perhaps intentionally ambiguous. 
Colloquially the phrase means " have no sense." For its 
higher meaning rf. Meno 99 c, Laws 963 a. 

* Unnecessary difficulties have been raised about Kairoi 
and juerd here. Wilamowitz, Platon, ii. p. 345 mistakenly 
resorts to emendation. The meaning is plain. Mathematical 
ideas are ideas or concepts like other ideas ; but the mathe- 
matician does not deal with them quite as the dialectician 
deals with ideas and therefore does not possess voCs or reason 
in the highest sense. 

' Here the word didvoia is given a technical meaning as a 



H6 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VI 

intelligence ° about them although ' the things them- 
selves are intelligibles when apprehended in con- 
junction with a first principle. And I think you call 
the mental habit of geometers and their hke mind or 
understanding '^ and not reason because you regard 
understanding as something intermediate between 
opinion and reason." " Your interpretation is quite 
sufficient," I said; " and now, answering to** these 
four sections, assume these four affections occurring 
in the soul : intellection or reason for the highest, 
understanding for the second ; assign belief* to the 
third, and to the last picture-thinking or conjecture,' 
and arrange them in a proportion,^ considering that 
they participate in clearness and precision in the same 
degree as their objects partake of truth and reality." 
" I understand," he said ; " I concur and arrange them 
as you bid." 

faculty inferior to vovs, but, as Plato says, the terminology 
does not matter. The question has been much and often 
idly discussed. 

" For eiri cf. Polit. 280 a, Gorg. 463 b. 

• vLaris is. of course not " faith " in Plato, but Neoplaton- 
ists. Christians, and commentators have confused the two 
ideas hopelessly. 

' eUaaia undoubtedly had this connotation for Plato. 

» C/. on 508 c, p. 103, note b. 



117 



^1* I. Merd ravra S?^, elrrov, aTTecKaaov toiovtw 
7rd0€L TTjv Tjixerepav <f)vai,v Traiheias re Ttipi kol 
aTTaihevaias . tSe yap dudpcoTTOvs olov iv Kara- 
yetoj OLKT^aei CTTTT^AaiojSet, dvaTT€7TrafjLevr]v irpos ro 
(fxMS TTJV etaoSov ixovar] fiaKpav irap^ drrav ro 
OTT-qXaiov, iv ravrr) e/c TratScov om-as iv SeafioXs 

" The image of the cave illustrates by another proportion 
the contrast between the world of sense-perception and 
the world of thought. Instead of going above the plane of 
ordinary experience for the other two members of the pro- 
portion, Plato here goes below and invents a fire and shadows 
cast from it on the walls of a cave to correspond to the sun 
and the " real " objects of sense. In such a proportion our 
" real " world becomes the symbol of Plato's ideal world. 

Modern fancy may read what meanings it pleases into the 
Platonic antithesis of the " real " and the " ideal." It has 
even been treated as an anticipation of the fourth dimension. 
But Plato never leaves an attentive and critical reader in 
doubt as to his own intended meaning. There may be at 
the most a little uncertainty as to which precise traits are 
intended to carry the symbolism and which are merely 
indispensable parts of the picture. 

The source and first suggestion of Plato's imagery is an 
interesting speculation, but it is of no significance for the 
interpretation of the thought. Cf. John Henry Wright, 
"The Origin of Plato's Cave " in Harvard Studies in Class. 
Phil. xvii. (1906) pp. 130-142. Burnet, Earlp Greek Philo- 
sophy, pp. 89-90, thinks the allegory Orphic. Cf. also 
Wright, loc. cit. pp. 134-135. Empedocles likens our world 
118 



BOOK VII 

I. " Next," said I, " compare our nature in respect 
of education and its lack to such an experience as 
this. Picture men dwelling in a sort of subterranean 
cavern " with a long entrance open ^ to the light on its 
entire width. Conceive them as having their legs 
and necks fettered" from childliood, so that they 

to a cave, Diels i.» 269. Cf. Wright, loc. cit. Wright refers 
it to the Cave of Vari in Attica, pp. 140-142. Others have 
supposed that Plato had in mind rather the puppet and 
marionette shows to which he refers. Cf. Dies in Bulletin 
Bude, No. 14 (1927) pp. 8 f. 

The suggestiveness of the image has been endless. The 
most eloquent and frequently quoted passage of Aristotle's 
early wTitings is derived from it, Cic. De nat. dear. ii. 37. 
It is the source of Bacon's " idols of the den." Sir Thomas 
Browne writes in Urn Burial : " We yet discourse in Plato's 
den and are but embryo philosophers." Huxley's allegory 
of " Jack and the Beanstalk " in Evolution and Ethics, 
pp. 47 ff. is a variation on it. Berkeley recurs to it, Siris, 
§ 263. The Freudians would have still more fantastic inter- 
pretations. Cf. Jung, Analytic Psych, p. 232. Eddington 
perhaps glances at it when he attributes to the new physics 
the frank reali2ation that physical science is concerned with 
a world of shadows. Cf. also Complete Poems of Henry 
More (ed. Grossart), p. 44 : 

Like men new made contriv'd into a cave 

That ne'er saw light, but in that shadowy pit 

Some uncouth might them hoodwink hither drave, etc. 

* Cf. Phaedo 111c avaxeitTOLfjAvoxn. 
' Cf. Phaedo 67 d. 

119 



PLATO 

Kai TO, cTKeXr) Kal rovs avx^va?, oiore fxeveiv re 
B avTov^ ets re ro Ttpoadev fiovov opdv, kvkXo) 8e 
Tag Ke(f)aXag vtto tov hea^xov ahwdrovs Trepidyeiv, 
^oj? 8e avToig rrvpog dvwdev /cat TToppcoOev Kao- 
fxevov OTTLoOev avT(Zv, juera^u 8e tov rrvpos Kal 
Tojv SeaficjTwv eTrdvat ohov. Trap* rjv i8e reixiov 
TTapwKoBofiiqiJLevov, (LaTrep tols davfiarorroLOis irpo 
TVjv dvdpdoTTCov TTpoKeirat rd TTapa^pdyjxara, vrrep 
(x)v rd davfxara SeiKvvaaLV. 'Opcb, €<f)r]. "Opa 
roivvv irapd tovto to reixiov (f>€povTas dvdpoiTTovs 
GKevrj TG 7TavTo8a7ra vrrepexovra tov t€lx^ov Kal 
515 dvSpidvTas Kal dXXa ^ioa Xidtvd re Kal ^yAiva Kal 
TTavTola elpyaafieva, otov et/co? tovs fi€v ^dey- 
yopidvovs, tovs 8e atydJVTas tcjv 7Tapa<^ep6vTa>v. 
"AroTTOV, €(f)r], XeyeLs eiKova Kal SeapLcoras aTO- 
7TOVS. 'OpiOLovs Tjpuv, '^v 8 €yd)' TOVS ydp TOIOV- 
Tovs TTpdJrov pikv eavTCOv re Acat dXXrjXcov otei dv Tt 
iojpaKevai aXXo ttXtjv Tas OKids rds vtto tov nvpos 
els TO KaTavTLKpv avTcov TOV a-rrrjXaiov Trpoa- 
TTLTTTOvaas ; YlcJs ydp, e^rj, el aKiv^Tovs ye rds 
B Ke^aXds €X€LV rjvayKacrpLevoi elev 8ta ^Cov; Tt 8e 
Tcbv 7Tapa(f)epo[.ievcov ; ov TavTOV tovto. Tt pirjv; 
Et ovv hiaXeyeadai oloi t elev rrpos dXXrjXovs, ov 
TavTa^ Tjyel dv rd TvaptovTa^ avTovs vopLit,eiv dvopud- 

^ airov Hischig : ainov^. 

* ov ravra D, ov Tavrk AFM, ovk aina ci. Vermehren. 

* wapidvra scr. recc, irapovTa AFDM, 6vTa lamblichus. 

120 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

remain in the same spot, able to look forward only, 
and prevented by the fetters from turning their heads. 
Picture further the liffht from a fire burninor hic^her 
up and at a distance behind them, and between the 
fire and the prisoners and above them a road along 
which a low wall has been built, as the exhibitors of 
puppet-shows " have partitions before the men them- 
selves, above which they show the puppets." " All 
that I see," he said. " See also, then, men carrying ^ 
past the wall implements of all kinds that rise above 
the wall, and human images and shapes of animals 
as well, wTought in stone and wood and every material, 
some of these bearers presumably speaking and 
others silent." " A strange image you speak of," he 
said, " and strange prisoners." " Like to us," I said ; 
" for, to begin ^^-ith, tell me do you think that these 
men would have seen anything of themselves or of 
one another except the shadows cast from the fire 
on the wall of the cave that fronted them ? " " How 
could they," he said, " if they were compelled to 
hold their heads unmoved through Ufe ? " " And 
again, would not the same be true of the objects 
carried past them ? " *' Surely." " If then they 
were able to talk to one another, do you not think 
that they would suppose that in naming the things 

" H. Rackham, Class. Rev. xxix. pp. 77-78, suggests that 
the Tor? 0av^aToiroioU should be translated "at the marion- 
ettes" and be classed with Katvois rpaytfiSoii (Pseph. ap. 
Dem. xviii. 116). For the dative he refers to Kuehner-Gerth, 
II. 1. p. 445. 

* The men are merely a part of the necessary machinery 
of the image. Their shadows are not cast on the wall. The 
artificial objects correspond to the things of sense and opinion 
in the divided line, and the shadows to the world of reflec- 
tions, tUdva. 

121 



PLATO 

^€i.v dnep opojev; 'Amy/CT^. Tt 8'; el /cat "qx^ 

TO SeCTHOJT-qpLOV €K TOV KaXaVTlKpU €XOi, OTTOTe TLS 

ra>v TTapiovroiv (fidiy^ano, otei av ctAAo tl avrovs 
rjyetadai to (jtOeyyopievov ■^ Tr]v vaptovaav oKidv; 
Md Ai" ovK eyuiy' , ^^V- ^o-VTaTraai hij, ■^v 8' eyco, 

C OL TOIOVTOL OVK oiv aAAo Tt VOfll^OLeV TO oXrjdeS Tj 

ras Twv aKevaoTcjv cr/cta?. noAAi7 avdyKT], €^17. 
S/co7Tei Si^, "^v 8* iyo), avTOjv Xvaiv re /cat laati^ 
Tcijv Secrfiojv /cat t^? d^poavvrjs, oia Tt? ai^ 6117, et 
^vaei roidSe ^vjx^aivoi avToZs' oiroTe tls XvdeLTj 
Kai dvayKdt,OLTO i^aL(f)V7]s dviaTaadai t€ /cat Trepi- 
dyeiv TOV ay;)^eva /cat ^ahit,€iv /cat Trpo? to i^oj? 
dva^XcTTeiv, irdvTa 8e TavTa ttolcov dXyol tc koL 
Std TCI? fxapfiapvyds aSvvaTol Kadopdv eKelva, ojv 
D TOTe TO.? cr/cids' ewpa, Tt av otet auToi' etTretv, ei 
Tt? auTW Aeyot, oti totc /i.ev' ecopa ^Xvapias , vvv 
8e fxoAXov Tt iyyvTepco tov ovtos Kai Trpos fidXXov 

' Cf. Parmen. 130 d, Tjw. 51 b, 52 a, and my De 
Platonis Idearum doctrina, pp. 24-25; also E. Hoffmann 
in Wochenschrift f. Mass. Phil, xxxvi. (1919) pp. 196-197. 
As we use the word tree of the trees we see, tliough the 
reality {avrb 5 ^art) is the idea of a tree, so they would speak 
of the shadows as the world, though the real reference im- 
known to them would be to the objects that cause the 
shadows, and back of the objects to the things of the " real " 
world of which they are copies. The general meaning, 
which is quite certain, is that they would suppose the 
shadows to be the realities. The text and the precise turn 
of expression are doubtful. See crit. note. irapLovTo, is 
intentionally ambiguous in its application to the shadows 
or to the objects which cast them. They suppose that the 
names refer to the passing shadows, but (as we know) they 

122 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

that they saw" they were naming the passing objects?" 
" Necessarily." " And if their prison had an echo** 
from the wall opposite them, when one of the passers- 
by uttered a sound, do you think that they would 
suppose anything else than the passing shadow to 
be the speaker ? " " By Zeus, I do not," said he. 
"Then in every way such prisoners would deem 
reahty to be nothing else than the shadows of the 
artificial objects." " Quite inevitably," he said. 
" Consider, then, what would be the manner of the 
release " and healing from these bonds and this folly 
if in the course of nature '^ something of this sort 
should happen to them : When one was freed from 
his fetters and compelled to stand up suddenly and 
turn his head around and walk and to lift up his eyes 
to the light, and in doing all this felt pain and, because 
of the dazzle and ghtter of the light, was unable to 
discern the objects whose shadows he formerly saw, 
what do you suppose would be his answer if someone 
told him that what he had seen before was all a cheat 
and an illusion, but that now, being nearer to reahty 

really apply to the objects. Ideas and particulars are hom- 
onymous. Assuming a slight illogicality we can get some- 
what the same meaning from the text Tavrd. " Do you 
not think that they would identify the passing objects 
(which strictly speaking they do not know) with what they 
saw? " 

Cf. also P. Corssen, Philologische Wochenschrift, 1913, 
p. 286. He prefers oiV ai-ra. and renders : " Sie wurden in 
dem, was sie sahen, das Voriibergehende selbst zu benennen 
glauben." 

* The echo and the voices (515 a) merely complete the 
picture. 

* Cf. Phaedo 67 d \v€iv, and 83 d \i5<rei re /ca2 Kadap/xi^. 
Xiyffts became technical in N'eoplatonism. 

* Lit. " by nature." 0iVis in Plato often suggests reality 
and truth. 

123 



PLATO 

\ ovra TeT/)a/z/LteVos' opOorepa jSAeVot, Kal Sr) /cat 

eKaarov rtov TrapiovTOiv heiKvvs ayroj avayKd.t,oi, 

, cpiOTwv aTTOKpiveadai 6 ri ecrriv; ovk o'Ul avTOv 

/ dvopeLv re av Kal rjyeiadat. ra rore opiofxeva 

j dXrjdearepa 7] rd vvv SeiKvvjxeva; rioAu y', 6^77. 

/ II, OvKovv Koiv el Trpos avro ro cficos dvayKa^oi, 

E avTov ^XiireLv, aXyelv re dv rd opL/xara Kal 

(f)€vyeLv dTTocrrpe(f)6fjievov Trpos eKelva d SvvaraL 

Kadopdv, Kal uopbi^eiv ravra rip ovri cra^earepa 

rdjv SeiKvvfjievojv; Ovrcus, e^Ty. Ei 8e, -^v S' 

eyco, ivrevdev cXkol ris avrov ^ia ^id rpax^tas 

ri]s ava^daecos Kal dvdvrovs Kal p,rj dveiiq irplv 

e^eXKvaeiev els to rod tjXlov (f)a)s, dpa ovxl 

oSwdadal re dv Kal dyavaKreZv eXKopievov, Kal 

516 €7T€i07] irpos TO (f)cx)s eXdoL, avyijs dv e^ovra rd 

opLfxara fxeara opdv ov8' dv ev hvvaadai rcov vvv 

Xeyopievoiv dXrjdcbv; Ov ydp dv, e(fi-q, e^atcfiviqs ye. 

TiVVT^Oelas Srj, otfxai, SeoLr' dv, el fxeXXoi rd dvcj 

oipeadaL' Kal TrpdJrov puev rds oKids dv paara Kad- 

opo), Kai fxerd rovro ev roXs vhaai rd re rcov 

avdpoiTTCJV Kal rd rcov dXXojv e'lhcoXa, varepov he 

avra' eK he rovrcov rd ev rev ovpavcv Kal avrov rov 

ovpavov vvKrcop dv paov dedaairo, Trpoa^XeTTCov ro 

B rcov darpcov re Kal aeXt^vrjs (f><os, t] yiie^' rjfxepav 

" The entire passage is an obvious allegory of the painful 
experience of one whose false conceit of knowledge is tested 
by the Socratic elenchus. Cf. Soph. 230 b-d, and for iiropdv 
Meno 80 a, 84 b-c, Theaet. 149 a, Apol. 23 d. Cf. also 
Wliat Plato Said, p. 513 on Meno 80 a, Eurip. Hippol. 
247 TO yap 6p9ov<T0ai. yvdofxav oSwq,, " it is painful to have 
one's opinions set right," and infra 517 a, supra 494 u. 

* Cf. Theaet. 175 b, Boethius, Cons. iii. 12 "quicunque 
in superum diem mentem ducere quaeritis " ; infra 529 a, 
521 c, and the Neoplatonists' use of avayeLv and their 

124 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

and turned toward more real things, he saw more 
truly ? And if also one should point out to him each 
of the passing objects and constrain him by questions 
to say what it is, do you not think that he would be 
at a loss ° and that he would regard what he formerly 
saw as more real than the things now pointed out 
to him ? " " Far more real," he said. 

II. " And if he were compelled to look at the light 
itself, would not that pain his eyes, and would he not 
turn away and flee to those things which he is able 
to discern and regard them as in very deed more 
clear and exact than the objects pointed out ?" 
" It is so," he said. " And if," said I, " someone 
should drag him thence by force up the ascent ** which 
is rough and steep, and not let him go before he had 
drawn him out into the hght of the sun, do you not 
think that he would find it painful to be so haled 
along, and would chafe at it, and when he came out 
into the hght, that his eyes would be filled with its 
beams so that he would not be able to see "^ even one of 
the things that we call real ? " " \\'hy, no, not im- 
mediately," he said. " Then there would be need 
of habituation, I take it, to enable him to see the 
things higher up. And at first he would most easily 
discern the shadows and, after that, the Ukenesses 
or reflections in water "^ of men and other things, 
and later, the things themselves, and from these he 
would go on to contemplate the appearances in the 
heavens and heaven itself, more easily by night, look- 
ing at the hght of the stars and the moon, than by day 

" anagogical " virtue and interpretation. Cf. Leibniz, ed. 
Gerhardt, vii. 270. 

« C/. Laves 897 d, Phaedo 99 d. 

* Cf. Phaedo 99 d. Stallbaura says this was imitated by 
Themistius, Oral. iv. p. 51 b. 

125 



PLATO 

TOP -^Xlov re /cat ro rov rjXiov. Ilcus" S ov; 
TeXeuralov 817, oljxaL, rov rjAiov, ovk ev vSamv 
oi)S' iv dXXorpla eSpa (fjavrdafjiara avrov, oAA 
avrov Kad^ avrov iv rfj avrov X^P^ Svvair av 
KariSelv Kal QedaaaQai olo? iariv. AvayKatov, 
€(f)7). Kai jxerd ravr dv rj^r] crvXkoyiiC,OLro irepi 
avrov on ovros 6 rag re copas Trapep^cov Kat 
eviavrovs Kal irdvra eirirpoTTeviDV ra ev rw 

Q opcoixevo) roTTCO, /cat eKeivcjJv, (Lv acfieXs eoipcov, 
rpoTTOv rivd Trdvrojv atrtos". At^Aoi^, e<f)7], on evrt 
ravra dv fxer eKelva eXdoi. Tt ovv; dvaixijxvT]- 
OKOfxevov avrov rrjs TrpcorrjS olK-qcreojs Kai rrjs e/cet 
ao(f>Las /cat rcov rare ^vvSeafiajrcov ovk dv otei avrov 
fxev euSat^ovi^etv t^? jiera^oXrjs, roiis be eXeelv; 
Kai ixdXa. Tifxal Se Kat erraivoi et rives avrols 

' rjaav rore Trap d^r]Xa>v Kal yepa ra> o^vrara Kad- 
opojvn ra Traptovra, /cat piVT]p.ovevovn fidXiara 

D oaa re irporepa avrcov Kal varepa elcodei Kai a/xa 
TTopeveaOai, Kal e/c rovrcov Srj hvvarwrara airo- 
fiavrevofievcp ro fieXXov rj^eiv, So/cet? dv avrov 
iTndvixrjnKojg avrcov e^eiv Kal ^ijAout' rovs Trap 
eKeivois nfxojfjLevovs re Kal evSvvaarevovras , y] ro 
rov 'Ofi-qpov dv ireTTOvdevat, Kal a^ohpa ^ovXeadai 

" It is probably a mistake to look for a definite symbolism 
in all the details of this description. There are more stages 
of progress than the proportion of four things calls for. All 
that Plato's thought requires is the general contrast between 
an unreal and a real world, and the goal of the rise from one 
to the other in the contemplation of the sun, or the idea of 
good. C/. 517 B-c. * i.e. a foreign medium. 

• Cf. 508 B, and for the idea of good as the cause of all 
things cf. on 509 b, and Introd. pp. xxxv-xxxvi. 

P. Corssen, Philol. Wochenschri/t, 1913, pp. 287-288, un- 
necessarily proposes to emend Cbi' (T<peh idtpuv to cDv cr/ctdj e. or 

126 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

the sun and the sun's hght." " " Of course." " And 
so, finally, I suppose, he would be able to look upon 
the sun itself and see its true nature, not by reflections 
in water or phantasms of it in an alien setting,^ but in 
and by itself in its own place." " Necessarily," he 
said. " And at this point he would infer and con- 
clude that this it is that provides the seasons and the 
courses of the year and presides over all things in the 
visible region, and is in some sort the cause '^ of all these 
things that they had seen." " Obviously," he said, 
" that would be the next step." " Well then, if he 
recalled to mind his first habitation and what passed 
for wisdom there, and his fellow-bondsmen, do you 
not think that he would count himself happy in the 
change and pity them **? " "He would indeed." "And 
if there had been honours and commendations among 
them which they bestowed on one another and prizes 
for the man who is quickest to make out the shadows as 
they pass and best able to remember their customary 
precedences, sequences andco-existences,* andsomost 
successful in guessing at what was to come, do you 
think he would be very keen about such rewards, and 
that he would envy and emulate those who were 
honoured by these prisoners and lorded it among 
them, or that he would feel with Homer ^ and greatly 

&V ff4>€'ls (TKiai e., " ne sol umbrarum, quas videbant, auctor 
fuisse dicatur, cum potius earum rerum, quarum umbras vide- 
bant, fuerit auctor." '' Cf. on 4S6 a, p. 10, note a. 

' Another of Plato's anticipations of modern thought. This 
is precisely the Humian, Comtian, positivist, pragmatist view 
of causation. Cf. Gorg. 501 a rpi^^ Kal ifxireipig. nvinxTjv 
fiofof (Tiii^ofxeyij tov eicodoros yiyveadcu, " relying on routine and 
habitude for merely preserving a memory of what is wont to 
result." (Loeb tr.) 

' Odyss. xi. 489. The quotation is almost as apt as that 
at the beginning of the Crito. 

127 



PLATO 

errapovpov iovra O-qrevep^ev dXXcp avSpl Trap* 
aKX'qpcp Kal oriovv dv TT^TTOvdivaL p,dXXov rj ^KeZvd 

E re ho^dt,€LV Kal eKcivcos Cw! Ovtcos, €(f)rj, eycoye 
otjuai, Trdv pd?<\ov Trenovdevai, dv hi^aodat ■^ t,rjv 
€K€iva)S. l\at Tooe or] evvor^aov, rjv o eyoj. ei 
TTaXiv 6 Toiovros Kara^ds et? top avrov ddKov 
Kadil,oLTO, dp* ov gkotovs dv TrXecos^ crxoirj rovs 
o(l>daXpovs, €^aL<f)vrjs tJkcov e/c rov tjXlov; Kat 
p,aXa y', €(f>r). Tag 8e Sr] (TKids e/cetVa? TrdXiv el 
Se'ot avTov yvcop,aTevovTa Stap^iXXdaOat rots del 
517 Secr/xajTatS" €K€lvols, ev cL dp,^Xvd)TT€i, , rrplv Kara- 
arijvaL rd oppara, ovtos 8' o xpovog p,rj Trdvv oXiyos 
eir] TTJs (yvvT]9eLag, dp' ov yeAcor' ai' 7Tapda)(OL, Kai 
XeyoiTO dv Tvepl avrov, ws dva^ds dva> SLe(f)dapp,€vos 
rjKet rd 6p.para, Kal on ovk d^tov ovhe Treipdadai 
dvoj levai; Kal rov eiTLX^ipovvra XveLV re Kal dv- 
dyeiv, e'i nwg ev raZs X^P^'- ^vvaivro Xa^elv Kal aTTO- 
Krelveiv, dTTOKreivvvai dv^ ; S^oSpa y* , ecfyr]. 

III. Tavrrjv roivvv, rjv 8' eyw, rrjv eiKova, J) 
(f)iXe TXavKcov, Trpoaarrreov drraaav rots epLrrpoadev 

B XeyopevoLs , rrjv pev St' oi/recD? (f)aLvop,evr]v eSpav rfj 
rov SeapcorrjpLOV oiK-qaei d(f)opoLovvra, ro 8e rov 
TTvpos ev avrfj (jxjjs rfj rov -qXiov Swdp-et' rrjv 8e 
ai^co avd^aoLv Kal deav rwv dva> rrjv els rov vorjrov 

^ &p ir\4(os Stallb., di'txTrXews mss., &v dvdirXeccs Baiter. See 
Adam ad loc. on the text. 

* diroKTilveiv, airoKTuvvvaL &v F : diroKTeivetv, diroKTivviLivai &v 
AD lamblichus : dTroKTfiveiv, dTroKTivv{)vai aD M, dtroicrelveiav 
6.P ci. Baiter. 

"" On the metaphor of darkness and light cf. also Soph. 254 a. 

^ Like the philosopher in the court-room. Cf. TJieaet. 
172 c, 173 c ff., Gorg. 484 d-e. Cf. also supra on 487 c-d. 
515 D, infra 517 d. Soph. 216 d, Laches 196 b, Phaedr. 249 d. 

128 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

prefer while living on earth to be serf of another, a 
landless man, and endure anything rather than opine 
with them and live that life ? " " Yes," he said, " I 
think that he would choose to endure anything rather 
than such a life." " And consider this also," said I, 
" if such a one should go down again and take his old 
place would he not get his eyes full** of darkness, thus 
suddenly coming out of the sunlight ? " " He would 
indeed." " Now if he should be required to contend 
with these perpetual prisoners in ' evaluating ' these 
shadows while his \ision was still dim and before his 
eyes were accustomed to the dark — and this time re- 
quired for habituation would not be very short — would 
he not provoke laughter,* and would it not be said of 
him that he had returned from his journey aloft with 
his eyes ruined and that it was not worth while even to 
attempt the ascent ? And if it were possible to lay 
hands on and to kill the man who tried to release 
them and lead them up, would they not kill him "} " 
" They certainly would," he said. 

III. " This image then, dear Glaucon, we must 
apply as a whole to all that has been said, likening 
the region revealed through sight to the habitation 
of the prison, and the light of the fire in it to the power 
of the sun. And if you assume that the ascent and 
the contemplation of the things above is the soul's 

' An obvious allusion to the fate of Socrates. For other 
stinging allusions to this cf. Gorg. 486 b, 521 c, Meno 100 
B-c. <Jf. Hamlet's " Wormwood, wormwood " (in. ii. 191). 
The text is disputed. See crit. note. A. Drachmann, " Zu 
Platons Staat," Hermes, 1926, p. 1 10, thinks that an oUl or 
something like it must he understood as having preceded, 
at least in Plato's thought, and that diroKTtLviU' can be 
taken as a gloss or variant of dvoKreivvvai and the correct 
reading must be \a/3f ?»', «cai avoKreiviivai df. See also Adam 
ad loc. 

VOL. II K 1S9 



PLATO 

TOTTOV TTJs ^^xrjs avohov Tidels ovx dfiaprqaci rrjs 

. / y* cfjLTJs iXTTiSos, €7761817 TavTTjs eTTLdvfxets aKoveiv 

ji deos Se 7TOV olSev, el dXr]dr]s ovaa rvyxavei. rd 

'' 8' ovv e/xoi (jiaivofMeva ovroi ^aiverai, iv ru) 

yvioarat reAeurata ly rov dyadov iSe'a /cat fjLoyis 

C opdadai, o<f>delaa he avXXoyicrrea elvai cos dpa 

TTaai TTavTcov avrq opdcov re /cat KaXiov alria, ev 

re oparo) ^cos /cat rov tovtov Kvpiov reKovaa, ev 

re voTjTcp avrri KVpia dX-qdeiav /cat vovv irapa- 

axop,evr], /cat on Set ravr-qv ISetv rov fieXXovra 

ep,<f)p6va}s irpd^eiv -q iSt'a ^ br]fioaia. 2ufoio/xat, 

€(1)7], /cat iyco, ov ye 8rj rponov Swa/xat. "I^t 

TOLvvv, -^v S' iyu), /cat roSe ^vvolt^Otjtl /cat fxrj 

davixdajjs on ol evravOa iXOovres ovk edeXovat 

rd rcov dvdpcuTrojv TrpdrTeiv, dXX dvco del eTreiyov- 

D Tat avToJv at ijjvxoX hiaTpi^etv' etKos yap ttov ovtcos, 

eiTTep av Kara Trjv 7TpoeLpr)iJ.4vrjv eiKova tovt' ex^t. 

Ei/cos" fievTot, €(f)rj, Tt 8e; roSe otet n davfxaarov, 

el drro delcov, -^v 8' eyco, decopcajv enl rd dvdpioTTeid 

Tt? eX9d)v /ca/ca daxrjpovel re /cat ^atVerat a(f>6Spa 

yeXolos en dfi^XvcoTTCov /cat Trplv iKavcos crvvqdrjs 

" Cf. 508 B-c, where Arnou {Le Desir de dieu dans la 
phi! OS. de Plot in, p. 48) and Robin {La Theorie plat, de 
Vamour, pp. 83-84) make tqwos voyjTos refer to le del astro- 
nomlque as opposed to the virepovpdvio's rdwos of the Phaedrus 
247 A-E, 248 B, 248 d-249 a. The phrase fOTjTos k6<tixos, often 
attributed to Plato, does not occur in his writings. 

* Plato was much less prodigal of affirmation about meta- 

f)hysical ultimates than interpreters who take his myths 
iterally have supposed. Cf. What Plato Said, p. 515, on 
Meno 86 b. 

130 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

ascension to the intelligible region," you will not miss 
my surmise, since that is what you desire to hear. 
But God knows* whether it is true. But, at any rate, 
my dream as it appears to me is that in the region 
of the known the last thing to be seen and hardly seen 
is the idea of good, and that when seen it must needs 
point us to the conclusion that this is indeed the 
cause for all things of all that is right and beautiful, 
giving birth "^ in the visible world to hght, and the 
author of light and itself in the intelligible world 
being the authentic source of truth and reason, and 
that anyone who is to act wisely'' in private or public 
must have caught sight of this." " I concur," he 
said, " so far as I am able." " Come then," I said, 
" and join me in this further thought, and do not be 
surprised that those who have attained to this height 
are not willing * to occupy themselves with the affairs 
of men, but their souls ever feel the upward urge and 
the yearning for that sojourn above. For this, I 
take it, is Ukely if in this point too the hkeness of 
our image holds." " Yes, it is likely." " And again, 
do you think it at all strange," said I, "if a man 
returning from divine contemplations to the petty 
miseries' of men cuts a sorry figure' and appears most 
ridiculous, if, while still blinking through the gloom, 
and before he has become sufficiently accustomed 

' Cf. 506 E. 

"* This is the main point for the Republic. The significance 
of the idea of good for cosmogony is just glanced at and 
reserved for the Tlmaeus. Cf. on 508 b, p. 10;?, note a and 
pp. 505-506, For the practical application cf. Meno 81 d-e. 
See also Introd. pp. xxxv-xxx\i. 

• Cf. 5-21 A, 345 E, and Vol. I. on 347 d, p. 81, note d. 

f Cf. 346 E. 

' Cf. Theaet. 174 c dtrx'jAioo'i'*'';. 

131 



If 



PLATO 

yeveadai tco TTapovri okotco dvayKa^o/xevos eV 
SiKaarrjpLois ^ aXXodi ttov dycovl^eadat Tvepi tcov 
rod StKaLov uklcov 7} dyaXpLdrcov oJv at oKiai, Kat 

E Sta/xiAAacr^ai Ttepl rovrov, ottt) TTore VTroXajx^dverai 
ravra vtto tcjv avrrjv SiKaioavvrjv fxr} TTWTTore 
lSovtcjov; Ou8' oTTCoaTLOvv davfiaarov, e<f)7]. AAA 
518 ei vovv ye e^ot rts, ■^v S' €yc6, fieixinjr^ dv, on 
SiTTttl Krai a,7TO Slttcov yiyvovrai i-n-Lrapd^eLS ofx- 
IXaOLV, €K T€ (^COTOS CI? CTKOTOS piediaTap,€va)v Kat 
€/<: OKOTovs elg ^cD?* Tayra 8e raura vofiiaas 
yiyvecrdai /cat Ttepl ifjvx'i^i', dnoTe iSot dopv^ov- 
pLevrjv rivd xat dhvvarovadv ti Kadopdv, ovk dv 
dXoyiaroJS yeXcp, dXX enLaKOTTol dv rrorepov e/c 
(f>avoT€pov ^iov -qKovaa vtto ar]6etas eaKorcorai 7) 

B i^ dp,aQias TrXeiovog els cfyavorepov lovaa vtto Aa/z- 
rrporepov jjLapfiapvyfjs ifiTTeTTXrjaraL, /cat ovtoj 817 
rrjv p,€v evhaipioviaeiev dv rov irddovs re Kat ^lov, 
TTjV 8e iXeijaeiev, /cat el yeXdv err' avrfj ^ovXolto, 
■^jrrov dv KarayeXaaros 6 yeXcos avrcp etr] t] 6 eTTt 
rfj dvcoOev e/c (fxjjros TjKovcn). Kat pidXa, e^r], 
fjieTptcos Xeyets. 

IV. Aet 8tJ, eLTTOV, rifids roiovSe vojjLiaat, TTepl 
avTcbv, el TavT dXrjdrj, rr)V TTaiSetav ovx otav rives 
CTTayyeXXofJievoL <f)aaLV elvai roiavrrjv /cat etvai. 

" For the contrast between the philosophical and the 
pettifogging soul cf. Theaet. 173 c-175 e. Cf. also on 
517 A, p. 128, note b. 

* For dya\/idTwi> cf. my Idea of Good in Plato's Republic, 
p. 237, Soph. 234 c, Polit. 303 c. 
182 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

to the environing darkness, he is compelled in court- 
rooms " or elsewhere to contend about the shadows of 
justice or the images '' that cast the shadows and to 
wrangle in debate about the notions of these things 
in the minds of those who have never seen justice 
itself? " " It would be by no means strange," he 
said. " But a sensible man," I said, " would re- 
member that there are two distinct disturbances of 
the eyes arising from two causes, according as the 
shift is from hght to darkness or from darkness to 
light,*' and, believing that the same thing happens 
to the soul too, whenever he saw a soul perturbed 
and unable to discern something, he would not laugh ** 
unthinkingly, but would observe whether coming 
from a brighter life its vision was obscured by the 
unfamiUar darkness, or whether the passage from the 
deeper dark of ignorance into a more luminous world 
and the greater brightness had dazzled its vision.* 
And so ^ he would deem the one happy in its experience 
and way of life and pity the other, and if it pleased 
him to laugh at it, his laughter would be less laugh- 
able than that at the expense of the soul that had 
come down from the light above." " That is a very 
fair statement," he said. 

IV. " Then, if this is true, our view of these 
matters must be this, that education is not in reahty 
what some people proclaim it to be in their profes- 

' Aristotle, De an. 422 a 20 f. says the over-bright is abparw 
but otherwise than the dark. 

" Cf. Theaft. 175 d-e. 

• Lit. " or whether coming from a deeper ignorance into a 
more luminous world, it is dazzled by the brilliance of a 
greater light." 

' i.e. only after that. For oCrw 5iJ in this sense cf, 484 d, 
429 D, 443 E, Charm. 171 e. 

133 



PLATO 

C (paoL oe TTOV ovk evovarjg iv ttj ^v^fj e7TiaTrjfi.rj? 
ar(f>eLS evTiOevai, olov rv<j)Xois 6(j)daX}xoi? oipiv 
evTidemes. Oaai yap ovv, €(f)T]. *0 8e ye vvv 
Xoyos, rjv 8' eyco, arjiialvei, ravrrjv Trjv ivovaav 
€KacrTov BvvajjiLv iv rrj i/fvxjj Kal to opyavov, a> 
KaTa[xav6dv€L eKaaros, olov el o/x/xa pLT] hvvarov 
r)v dXA(x)s ^ $vv oXo) Tw awfjLarL aTp4(f)€iv irpos to 
(pavov CK Tov aKOTcoSovs, ovToj ^vv oXrj TJj iljvxfj 
e/c TOV yiyvofievov nepiaKTeov elvai, eoj? dv els to 
ov /cat tov ovTog to (ftavoTaTov SwaTrj yevrjTai 

D dvaa-)(eadai decofxevr]- tovto S' elval (f)afiev rdya- 
dov rj yap; Nai. Tovtov toLvvv, fjv 8' eyu), 
avTov Te'xyy] av etr] Trjs TrepLaycoyrjs, Tiva TpoTTOV 
(Ls paaTa re /cat dwat^iajTaTa fjieTaaTpa(f)riaeTaL, 
OV TOV efXTTOirjaai avTO) to opdv, dAA' co? e^ovTi jxev 
avTOj OVK opdcb's 8e TeTpajjifievo) ov8e ^XenovTi ot 
c8et, TOVTO Siaix7]xo.v7]aaa6ai. "Eoi/ce yap, €(f)r]. 

" iirayyeWdfieyoi connotes the boastfulness of their claims. 
Cf. Protag. 319 a, Gorg. 447 c. Laches 186 c, Evthyd. 273 e, 
Isoc. Soph. 1, 5, 9, 10, Antid. 193, Xen, Mem. iii. 1. 1, 
i. 2, 8, Aristot. Rhet. 1402 a 25. 

* Cf. Theognis 429 ff. vStallbaiim compares Eurip. Hippol. 
917 f. Similarly Anon. TheaH. Comm. (Berlin, 1905), p. 32, 
48. 4 /cat 5(11' avT^ ovk ivOiaews fj.adr]fj,dTuv, dWa dva/xv^trews. 
Cf. also St. Augustine : " Nolite putare quemquam hominem 
aliquid discere ab homine. Admonere possumus per stre- 
pitum vocis nostrae; " and Emerson's " Strictly speaking, it 
is not instruction but provocation that I can receive from 
another soul." 

* TrepiaKTiov is probably a reference to the weplaKTOi or tri- 
angular prisms on each side of the stage. They revolved on 
an axis and had different scenes painted on their three faces. 
Many scholars are of the opinion that they were not known 
in the classical period, as they are mentioned only by late 
134. 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

sions." What they aver is that they can put true 
knowledge into a soul that does not possess it, as if 
they were inserting* vision into blind eyes." "They 
do indeed," he said. " But our present argument 
indicates," said I, " that the true analogy for this 
indwelling power in the soul and the instrument 
whereby each of us apprehends is that of an eye that 
could not be converted to the light from the darkness 
except by turning the whole body. Even so this 
organ of knowledge must be turned around from 
the world of becoming together ^^■ith the entire 
soul, hke the scene-shifting periacf in the theatre, 
until the soul is able to endure the contemplation 
of essence and the brightest region of being. And 
this, we say, is the good,'' do we not ? " " Yes." 
" Of this very thing, then," I said, " there might be 
an art,* an art of the speediest and most effective 
shifting or conversion of the soul, not an art of pro- 
ducing vision in it, but on the assumption that it 
possesses vision but does not rightly direct it and 
does not look where it should, an art of bringing this 
about." " Yes, that seems likely," he said. " Then 

writers ; but others do not consider this conclusive evidence, 
as a number of classical plays seem to have required some- 
thing of the sort. Cf. O. Navarre in Daremberg-Saglio s.v. 
Machine, p. 1469. 

•* Hard-headed distaste for the unction or seeming mysti- 
cism of Plato's language should not blind us to the plain 
meaning. Unlike Schopenhauer, who affirms the moral 
will to be unchangeable, Plato says that men may be preached 
and drilled into ordinary moralitj-, but that the degree of 
their intelligence is an unalterable endowment of nature. 
Some teachers will concur. 

* Plato often distinguishes the things that do or do not 
admit of reduction to an art or science. Cf. on 488 e, p. 22, 
note 6. Adam is mistaken in taking it " Education (t; ro-Lhiia^ 
would be an art," etc. 

1S5 



PLATO 

At ix€v Tolvvv aAAat dperal KaXovfievai tfivx^js 
KivSvvevovcnv iyyvs Tt elvai tcov tov CTcojuaros" 
E Tw ovTi yap OVK ivovaai TrpoTCpov varepov ijx- 
TTOietadaL eOeai re Kal aoKiqaecjiv' 'q 8e rov (f)povrjcrai, 
iravros iidXXov deiorepov rtvos Tvyxdveu, cos 
eoLKev, ovcra, o ttjv fiev Svvafiiv ovbdrroTe a7r- 
oXXvaiv, VTTO §€ TT^s" 7T€piayioyrjs XPV^^H-^^ "^^ '^^'' 
519 w(f)€Xifxov Kal dxpT)orov av koI ^Xa^epov yiyverai. 
7] ovTTOi ivvevorjKag, tcov Xeyofxevcov TTOvr^poJv pcev, 
ao(f)a)v be, cos Spipiv fxev ^Xerrei to ijiuxo-p^ov /cat 
o^icos Siopa TavTa e'^' a TeTpaiTTaL, cvs ov (jyavXrjv 
€Xov TTJV oijiLv, KaKta S' ^vayKaafievov vmjpeTeiv, 
coaT€ oao) dv o^vTepov ^Xenrj, ToaovTcp irXeico 
KaKOL €pyat,6iievov ; Ilai^u piev ovv, €(f)7). Tovro 
fxevTOi, -qv 8' iyo), to Trjs ToiavTrjs cf)va€cos el €K 

TTtttSoS" evdvS KOTTTOpieVOV TTepteKOTT-q TOLS TTJS 

B yeveaecos ^vyyevels (Zarrep fjboXv^8l8as, at 8rj 



" This then is Plato's answer (intended from the first) to 
the question whether virtue can be taught, debated in the 
Protagoras and Meno. The intellectual virtues (to use Aris- 
totle's term), broadly speaking, cannot be taught ; they are 
a gift. And the highest moral virtue is inseparable from 
rightly directed intellectual virtue. Ordinary moral virtue 
is not rightly taught in democratic Athens, but comes by 
the grace of God. In a reformed state it could be systemati- 
cally inculcated and "taught." Cf. What Plato Said, 
pp. 511-512 on 3feno 70 a. But we need not infer that 
Plato did not believe in mental discipline. Cf. Charles Fox, 
Educational Psychology, p. 164 " The conception of mental 
discipline is at least as old as Plato, as may be seen from the 
seventh book of the Republic , . ." 

* Cf. Aristot. Eth. JVic. 1103 a 14-17 i] S^ iidiKT] i^ Idovs. 
Plato does not explicitly name " ethical " and " intellectual " 
virtues. Cf. Fox, op. cit. p. 104 " Plato correctly believed 

136 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

the other so-called virtues * of the soul do seem akin 
to those of the body. For it is true that where they 
do not pre-exist, they are afterwards created by 
habit ^ and practice. But the excellence of thought," 
it seems, is certainly of a more divine quality, a thing 
that never loses its potency, but, according to the 
direction of its conversion, becomes useful and bene- 
ficent, or, again, useless and harmful. Have you 
never observed in those who are popularly spoken of 
as bad, but smart men,"* how keen is the vision of the 
Uttle soul,* how quick it is to discern the things that 
interest it,' a proof that it is not a poor vision which 
it has, but one forcibly enhsted in the ser\'ice of 
evil, so that the sharper its sight the more mischief 
it accomplishes ? " "I certainly have," he said. 
" Observe then," said I, " that this part of such a 
soul, if it had been hanunered from childhood, and 
had thus been struck free ^ of the leaden weights, so 
that all virtues except wisdom could be acquired habitually 

' Plato uses such synonyms as <pp6vTj(ns, (ro0ta, vovz, Sidi'oia, 
etc., as suits his purpose and context. He makes no attempt 
to define and discriminate them with impracticable Aristo- 
telian meticulousness. 

" C/. Theaet. 176 d. Laws 689 c-d, Cic. De ojic. i. 19, and 
also Laws 819 a. 

' Cf. Theaet. 195 a, ibid. 173 a a/xiKpoi . . . tos \fn'xds, 
Marcus Aurelius' yi'xo-piov el ^affrd^uiv vtKpov, Swinburne's 
" A little soul for a little bears up this corpse which is man " 
(" Hymn to Proserpine," in fine), Tennyson's " If half the little 
soul is dirt." 

' Lit. " Toward which it is turned." 

» The meaning is plain, the precise nature of the image 
that carries it is doubtful. Jowett's " circumcision " was 
suggested by Stalibaum's " purgata ac circumcisa," but 
carries alien associations. The whole may be compared 
with the incrustation of the soul, infra 611 c-d, and with 
Phaedo 81 b f. 

137 



PLATO 

eocoSalg re /cat toiovtcov T^Sovat? re Kal Aip^i'eiat? 
7Tpoa(f)V€is yiyvofxevat, Karo)^ arpecfiovaL rrjV rrj^ 
^'^XV^ o^tt'* cov el OLTTaXXayev 7T€pi€aTp€cf)eTO et? 
rdXrjdrj, Kal e/cetra av to avro tovto rcov avrcbv 
avd pcoTTcov o^vrara iojpa, ctjairep Kal e<fi' a vvv 
TerpaTTTai. EiVo? ye, e^T^. Tt Sat; roSe ovk 
eiKos, rjv 8' iy(x), Kal dvdyKT] e/c rwv TrpoeLpr]p,4vo}v, 
p.TJT€ Toits aTratSeuTou? /cat dXrjdeLas drreLpovs 

C t/cai'cijs' ai' TTore ttoXlv eTTLrpoTTevaai, pbrjre tous iv 
TratSeto. iojixevovs StarptjSetv 8ta reXovs, tovs /xev 
OTt OKOTTOV iv TU) ^Lcp OVK e.)(ovai.v eva, ov arox<i^o- 
fxivovs Set aTravra TrpdrreLV d dv TTpdrrcjaiv tSto, 
re Kal hrip,oaia, rovs 8e on CKovres eivat ov 
TTpd^ovaiv, '^yovp.evoi ev jxaKapcov vqaoLs t,a)VTes 
en aTroj/ctcr^at; ^AXr]9rj, €(f)7]. 'Hfierepov Srj 
epyov, rjv S' eycv, tcov OLKKJrdjv rag re ^eXriaTag 
(jivaeis dvayKaaai dcf)LKecrdai irpos ro fxad-qfia o 
iv TO) TTpoadev e^apiev etvai pueyLarov, ISelv re ro 

D aya^ov' /cat dva^rjvai iKeivqv rrjv dvd^aaiv] /cat 
evretSai' dvafiavres LKavcos tScoffi, /x-t) enLrpeTTeiv 
avTolg o vvv iTTirpeTTerai. To rrotov Si^; To 
auTou, ■^v S' eycu, Karapiiveiv Kal pbrj ideXetv TrdXiv 

^ Kdrco Hermann: irepl kAtco mss. : irepl to, Karw lamblichus. 

" Or "eye of the mind," Cf. 533 d, Sym. 219 a, Soph. 
254 A, Aristot. Eth. 1114 a 30, and the parallels and imita- 
tions collected by Gomperz, Apol. der Heilkunst, 166-167. 
Cf. also What Plato Said, p. 534, on Phaedo 99 e, Ovid, 
Met. XV. 64 : 

. . . quae natura negabat 
visibus humanis, oculis ea pectoris hausit. 

Cf. Friedlander, Platan, i. pp. 12-13, 15, and perhaps Odyssey, 
i. 115, Marc. Aurel. iv. 29 Kara/jivfiv rili voepi^ Sja/xari. 
* For likely and necessary cf. on 485 c, p. 6, note c. 

138 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

to speak, of our birth and becoming, which attaching 
themselves to it by food and similar pleasures and 
gluttonies turn downwards the vision of the soul " 
— if, I say, freed from these, it had suffered a con- 
version towards the things that are real and true, 
that same faculty of the same men would have been 
most keen in its vision of the higher things, just as 
it is for the things toward which it is now turned." 
" It is likely," he said. " Well, then," said I, " is 
not this also Ukely * and a necessary consequence of 
what has been said, that neither could men who 
are uneducated and inexperienced in truth ever 
adequately preside over a state, nor could those 
who had been permitted to linger on to the end 
in the pursuit of culture — the one because they 
have no single aim ^ and purpose in Hfe to which all 
their actions, pubhc and private, must be directed, 
and the others, because they will not voluntarily 
engage in action, beUeving that while still li\'ing 
they have been transported to the Islands of the 
Blest.**" " True," he said. " It is the duty of us, the 
founders, then," said I, " to compel the best natures 
to attain the knowledge which we pronounced 
the greatest, and to vdn to the vision of the good, 
to scale that ascent, and when they have reached 
the heights and taken an adequate view, we must 
not allow what is now permitted." " What is that ? " 
"That they should hnger there," I said, " and refuse 

' ffKowSv : this is what distinguishes the philosophic states- 
man from the opportunist politician. Cf. 452 e. Laics 
962 A-B, D, U71U1/ 0/ Plato's Thought, p. 18, n. 102. 

** Cf. 540 B, (Jorg. 526 c, infra 520 d ^j' ti^ Kadap<^ and 
Phaedo 114 c, 109 b. Because they will still suppose that 
they are " building Jerusalem in England's green and 
pleasant land" (Blake). 

139 



PLATO 

KaraBaiveiv Trap* eKeivovs rows Secrjuajras' /xT^Se 
fierex^iv tcDv Trap' eVeiVois' ttovojv re Kal Tifxcbv, 
elre (ftavXarepai €lt€ OTTOvhaioTepai. "ETretr', e^T/, 
ahLKrjaojxev avrovs, Kal TTOtrjaofiev xetpov ^rjv, 
hwarov avTolg ov afieivov; 

E V. ETreAct^ou, '^v 8' iyo), ttolXlv, c5 (^I'Ae, on 
vofioj ov TOVTO jxeXei, ottcos ev ri yivos iv TvoAei 
OLa(f)€p6vTa)s €v TTpd^ei, dAA' iv oXji rfj ttoXcl tovto 
fjLr])(ava.Tai iyyeveadai, ^vvapfioTTCov rovs TToXlras 
TTeidoZ re Kal dvdyKr), ttoicjv ixeraSiSovai dAAi^Aot? 
520 '"'^S" d)(f)eXetas, 7]v dv eKaaroi ro kolvov hvvarol 
(haiv oj(f>eXelv, Kal avros ifiTTOiajv roiovrovs dvSpas 
ev rfj TToXei, ovx ti^a d^iT^ rpeTreadai OTrrj CKaarog 
^ouXerai, dAA' tva Karaxpyjrai avros avrols cttI 
rov ^vvheajjbov rijs TrdAecos". 'AXrjdij, €<f)T]' err- 
eXadopLTiv yap. HKeipai roivvv, etnov, (L FXaimcov, 
on ov8' dSiK-qcrofiev rovs Trap* 7]p.LV (f)tXoa6(f>ovs 
yiyvopievovg, dXXd StKaia rrpog avrovs epovp-ev, 
7TpoaavayKdt,ovres rcbv dXXcov eTTLfxeXeladai re Kal 

B (JjvXdrrei-v. epovpev ydp, on. ol pev ev rats ctAAais" 
TToXeoL roLovroL yiyv6p,evot, eiKorcos ov p.ere)(ovai 
rdJv ev avrats ttovojv avr6p,aroc ydp ep(f)vovraL 
aKOVcrrjs ri]s ev eKdarj] TToXireias , SiKrjv S' exec ro 
ye avro(f>ves, p,rjSevl rpo(l)rjv 6(j>€lXov, pirjS* eKriveiv 

" Cf. infra 539 e and Laws 803 b-c, and on 520 c, Huxley, 
Evolution and Ethics, p. 53 " the hero of our story descended 
the bean-stalk and came back to the common world," etc. 

* Cf. Vol. I. pp. 3U-315 on 419. 

* i.e. happiness, not of course exceptional happiness. 

'' Persuasion and compulsion are often bracketed or con- 
trasted. Cf. also Laws 661 c, 723 b, 711 c. Rep. 548 b. 

' Gf. 369 c If. The reference there however is only to the 
economic division of labour. For the idea that laws should 
140 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK MI 

to go down again" among those bondsmen and share 
their labours and honours, whether they are of less or 
of greater worth." " Do you mean to say that we 
must do them this wTong, and compel them to Hve 
an inferior life when the better is in their power ? " 
V. " You have again forgotten,* my friend," said I, 
" that the law is not concerned \\ith the special happi- 
ness of any class in the state, but is trying to produce 
this condition <^ in the city as a whole, harmonizing 
and adapting the citizens to one another by per- 
suasion and compulsion,** and requiring them to im- 
part to one another any benefit ^ which they are 
severally able to bestow upon the community, and 
that it itself creates such men in the state, not that it 
may allow each to take what course pleases him, but 
with a view to using them for the binding together of 
the commonwealth." " True," he said, " I did for- 
get it." " Observe, then, Glaucon," said I, " that 
we shall not be wTonging, either, the philosophers who 
arise among us, but that we can justify our action 
when we constrain them to take charge of the other 
citizens and be their guardians.' For we will say to 
them that it is natural that men of similar quality 
who spring up in other cities should not share in the 
labours there. For they grow up spontaneously? from 
no volition of the government in the several states, 
and it is justice that the self-grown, indebted to none 
for its breeding, should not be zealous either to pay 

be for the good of the whole state cf. 420 b if., 466 a, 341-343, 
Lavps 715 B, 757 d, 875 a. 

* JSohlesse oblige. This idea is now a commonplace of 
communist orations. 

» aiTOMaroi : cf. Protag. 320 a, Euthyd. 282 c. For the 
thought that there are a few men naturally good in any 
state cf. also Laws 951 b, 64::? c-d. 

141 



PLATO 

Toj TTpodvixeZadai ra rpo^ela' vfjLois S' rjfjLels vfxiv 

T€ avTols rfj re dXXr] TToXet, cooTzep iv crfi-qveaiv 

Tj-ye/jiovas re /cat ^aaiXeas cyevv-qcrafjiev, dfJieLVov re 

C /cat reXecorepov CKeivcov TreTraiSeu^eVous" /cat jxaXXov 

Svvarovs dfi(f)OT€pojv pLerixeiv. Kara^areov ovv 

iv fjLepei e/caCTTOJ els rrji' rcov dXXoiv ^vvoiKrjat.v /cat 

^vvediareov rd aKoreivd dedaacrOat' ^vvedi^opievoi 

ydp pLvpioj ^eXriov oipeode rdjv eKel, /cat yvojaeaQe 

eKaara rd etScoXa drra earl /cat Sv, 8td to TaXrjOrj 

eo/pa/ceVat KaXdJv re /cat hiKaiojv /cat dyaddJv Trepi' 

/cat ovTio virap r]pu,v /cat vpXv rj ttoXls ot/CT^aerat, 

aAA ovK ovap, cLs vvv at ttoXXol utto aKiap,a-)(ovv- 

D rcjv re Trpos dXXiqXovs /cat araoial,6vTCi}v Trepl rod 

^ apxeiv OLKovvrai, 019 fieydXov rcvos dyadov ovros. 

■; TO Se TTOV dXrjdes coS' e)(eL- iv TToXei ff rjKiara 

I iTpodvfxoL dpx^iv 01 fxeXXovres dp^eiv, ravrrjv 

dpiara /cat aaTaataaTOTara dvdyKrj oi/cetcr^at, rrfv 

S' ivavriovs dpxovras a^ovGav ivavrtcos. Hdvv 

" Cf. Isoc. Archidamus 108 dTroSa'^e;/ ret rpoipeia rrj Trarpidi. 
Stallbauni refers also to Phoenissae 44. For the country as 
Tpo(/>6s see Vol. I. p. 303, note e on 414 e. 

" Cf. Polit. 301 D-E, Xen. Cyr. v. 1. 24, Oecon. 7. 32-33. 

* For TeXewrepov . . . ireiraid€Vfji.ivovs cf. Prot. 342 E reXius 
7r€Trai5evfj.^vov. 

^ They must descend into the cave again. Cf. infra 539 e 
and Lmcs 803 b-c. Cf. Burnet, Early Greek Philos. pp. 89- 
90: " It was he alone, so far as we know, that insisted on 
philosophers descending by turns into the cave from which 
they had been released and coming to the help of their 
former fellow-prisoners." He agrees with Stewart (Myths 
of Plato, p. 252, n. 2) that Plato had in mind the Orphic 
Kard^aaii ets "AtSou to "rescue the spirits in prison." Cf. 
Wright, Harvard Studies, xvii. p. 139 and Complete Poems 
of Henry More, pp. xix-xx " All which is agreeable to that 
opinion of I'lato : That some descend hither to declare the 
Being and Nature of the Gods ; and for the greater Health, 

142 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

to anyone the price of its nurture." But you we have 

enfirendered for yourselves and the rest of the city 
to be, as it were, king-bees ^ and leaders in the hive. 
You have received a better and more complete 
education* than the others, and you are more capable 
of sharing both ways of hfe. Down you must go •* 
then, each in his turn, to the habitation of the others 
and accustom yourselves to the observation of the 
obscure things there. For once habituated you will 
discern them infinitely * better than the dwellers 
there, and you ^vill know what each of the ' idols ' ' is 
and whereof it is a semblance, because you have seen 
the reahty of the beautiful, the just and the good. 
So our city will be governed by us and you with 
waking minds, and not, as most cities now which are 
inhabited and ruled darkly as in a dream » by men 
who fight one another for shadows * and wrangle for 
office as if that were a great good, when the truth is » 
that the city in which those who are to rule are least \ 
eager to hold office* must needs be best administered | 
and most free from dissension, and the state that gets | 
the contrary type of ruler will be the opposite of this." J 

Purity and Perfection of this Lower World." This is taking 
Plato somewhat too literally and confusing him with 
Plotinus. 

* For /xi'ptV cf. Eurip. Androm. 701. 

' i.e. images. Bacon's " idols of the den." 

' Plato is fond of the contrast, vvap . . . 6vap. Cf. 476 c, 
Phaedr. 277 d, Phileh. 36 e, 65 e, PoUt. 277 d, 278 e, 
Theaet. 158 b. Rep. 574 d, 576 b, Tim. 71 e. Laws 969 b, 
also 533 B-c. 

* Cf. on 586 c, p. 393 ; Shelley, Adonais st. 39 " keep with 
phantoms an unprofitable strife " ; Arnold, " Dover Beach '" : 

... a darkling plain . . . 
Wliere ignorant armies clash by night. 

< Cf. on 517 c, p. 131, note e. 

143 



PLATO 

fxev ovv, e(f>r]. ^ATreiO-qaovaiv ovv rjfxlv, otet, ol 

rpo^iyioi ravT oLKOvovTeg, Kal ovk ideAr'jaovat 

^VfXTTOvetv iv rfj ttoXcl eKaarroi iv fiepci, tov 8e 

TtoXvv xpovov fi€T* dXX'qXcov oIk€IV €v TO) KaOapcp ; 

E ASvvarov, ecf)-^' St/caia yap St) SiKaioLS cttl- 

TOL^ofxev. TTavTog p,r^v fiaXXov ois" ctt dvayKaXov 

avrcuv eKaaros etat to dpx^i-v, rovvavriov rcbv vvv 

iv eKaaTTj TToXet dpxovTCov. Ovtoj yap e;cei, rjv S' 

iyoj, d) iralpe' et fxev ^iov e^evpi^aeLs dfieivio rov 

521 dpx^i-v Tot? jxeXXovcTLV dp^eiv, ecm ctoi Swarr) 

yeveadai ttoXls €v OLKOvpievrj- ev fiovj) yap avrfj 

dp^ovaiv ol TO) ovri TrXovaioi, ov xpvaiov, aAA 

ov Set rov evhaipiova TrXovrelv, l,oj7Js dyaOrj^ re Kal 

€fjL(f)povog. el Se tttcoxoc /cat TreLvaJVTes dyadcov 

IhioiV inl rd hiqpioaLa laaiv, ivrevdev OLOfxevoi 

rdyaddv helv dpTrd^eiv, ovk ecrri' Tre pt-fiaxfiTov 

yap TO dpx^i-v yiyvofxevov , oiKetog cov Kal evSov 6 

roLOVTos TToXefxog avrovs re dTToXXvat, Kal rqv 

B dXXr^v TToXiv. ^ KXrjdeaTara, €(f)-q. *'E;YetS' ovv, rjv 

8' iyo), ^iov dXXov rivd ttoXitlkcov dpxdJv Kara- 

^povovvra t) rov rrjs dXrjdLvrj^ (/)LXoao(f)Las ; Ov p,a 

i rov Ata, r^ S' 6s. 'AAAd pLevroi Set ye fir] epacrrds 

I rov dpx^cv levai eV avro' et Se /at^, oi ye dvr- 

jj epaaral pbaxovvrai. Ilcog 8' ov; TiVa? ovv dXXovg 

' dvayKaaeig levai cttI (jyvXaK-qv rrjs TroXecos, r) ol 

" The world of ideas, the upper world as opposed to that 
of the cave. Cf. Stallbaum ad loc. 

* Cf. snpra \^ol. I, p. 80, note b on 347 c. 

' Cf. Phaedru3 in fine, supra 416 e-417 a, infra 547 u. 

^ Stallbaum refers to Xen. Cyr. viii. 3. 39 oto/xal <re Kai dia 
TovTO ijSiov Tr\ovTe2v, on Treivrjcras xp'JA'arwv irewXovTrjKas, " for j'^ou 
must enjoy your riches much more, I think, for the very reason 
that it was only after being hungry for wealth that you became 
rich." (Loebtr.) C/. also /«/ra 577 e-578 a, and Adam ati/oc. 
144 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

" By all means," he said. " Will our alumni, then, 
disobey us when we tell them this, and will they refuse 
to share in the labours of state each in his turn while 
permitted to dwell the most of the time with one 
another in that purer world <> ? " " Impossible," he 
said : " for we shall be imposing just commands on men 
who are just. Yet they will assuredly approach office as 
an unavoidable necessity,* and in the opposite temper 
from that of the present rulers in our cities." " For 
the fact is, dear friend," said I, " if you can discover a 
better way of life than office-holding for your future 
rulers, a well-governed city becomes a possibility. 
For only in such a state will those rule who are really 
rich," not in gold, but in the wealth that makes happi- 
ness — a good and wise Ufe. But if, being beggars and 
starvelings ** from lack of goods of their own, they turn 
to affairs of state thinking that it is thence that they 
should grasp their own good, then it is impossible. 
For when office and rule become the prizes of con- 
tention," such a civil and internecine strife' destroys 
the office-seekers themselves and the city as well." 
" Most true," he said. " Can you name any other 
type or ideal of life that looks vrith scorn on political 
office except the life of true philosophers ' ? " I asked. 
" Xo, by Zeus," he said. " But what we require," I 
said, "is that those who take office^ should not be 
lovers of rule. Otherwise there will be a contest with 
rival lovers." "Surely." " WTiat others, then, will 
you compel to undertake the guardianship of the city 

« Cf. supra 347 d. Laws 715 a, also 586 c and What Plato 
Said, p. 627, on Laics 678 e, Isoc. Areop. 24, Pan. 145 and 146. 

' Cf. Eurip. Herachidae 415 oixeios ijdi] iroXeynos i^apTeverai. 

' Cf. infra 580 d ff., pp. 370 ff. 

* Uvai iirl in erotic language means " to woo." Cf. on 
489 D, p. 96, note b, also 347 c, 588 b, 475 c. 

VOL. II L 145 



PLATO 

TTCpi TOVrCOV T€ <f>pOVLIjLCOTaTOl, 8t' U)V apiCTTtt TToAt? 

OLKeZrai, ^xovai re n/xa? aAAa? Kal ^iov dfieLVco 
Tov ttoXltikov ; OuSeVa? aXXovs, e0^. 

C VI. BouAet ovv rovr* tJSt] aKOTraJfiev, riva rponov 
OL TOiovTOL eyyevrjaovrat Kal ttcjs ris dvd^ei avrous 
€Ls (I>6js, CLiairep e^ "AtSoy Aeyovrat Si] Tires' eis" 
deovs dveXdelv; Ucog yap ov ^ouAo/xat; e^^?. 
TovTO S-q, cos €ot,K€v, ovK OGrpaKov dv etrj Trepi- 
aTpo(f>7^ dXXd ipux'TJ? TrepLaycoyr] eK vvKTepivfjs twos 
Tjfjiepas et? aXrjdivrjV, rod ovros ovaa eTrdvodos,^ rju 
8r) (fnXoaoijiiav dXr]6rj ^-qaopiev elvai. Flai^u pukv 
ovv. OvKovv Set aKOTTcladaL ri twv pLadrjjxdTOiv 

D ^x^t- TOtavTTjv Svvajxiv; Ylajg yap ov; Tt dv ovv 
etq, d> rXavKcov, fxddT]fxa ^vx^S oXkov drro tov 
yiyvofievov inl to ov; rdSe S' ivvoto Xeycov a/i,a* 

OVK dOXTJTaS fieVTOL TToXipLOV €(f>aH€V TOVTOVS 

^ ovffa iwavoSoi Hermann: ovaav itravobov AFDM, lova-T)s 
iiravoSov scr. recc. : ouciav iirdfodos ci. Cobet. 

" C/. on 515 E, p. 124, note b. 

* This has been much debated. C/. Adam ad loc. Pro- 
fessor Linforth argues from Pausanias i. 34 that Amphiaraus 
is meant. 

' Cf. Phaedr. 241 b ; also the description of the game in 
Plato Comicus, fr. 153, apud Norwood, Greek Comedy, 
p. 167. Tiie players were divided into two groups. A shell 
or potsherd, black on one side and white on the other, was 
thrown, and according to the face on which it fell one group 
fled and the other pursued. Cf. also commentators on 
Aristoph. Knights 855. 

** Much quoted by Neoplatonists and Christian Fathers. 
Cf. Stallbaum ad loc. Again we need to remember that 
Plato's main and explicitly reiterated purpose is to describe 
a course of study that will develop the power of consecutive 
consistent abstract thinking. All metaphysical and mystical 
suggestions of the imagery which conveys this idea are 

1*6 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

than those who have most intelligence of the prin- 
ciples that are the means of good government and 
who possess distinctions of another kind and a life 
that is preferable to the political hfe ? " " No 
others," he said. 

VI. " Would you, then, have us proceed to consider 
how such men may be produced in a state and how 
they may be led upward " to the light even as some * 
are fabled to have ascended from Hades to the gods?" 
"Of course I would." "So this, it seems, would not 
be the whirling of the shell" in the children's game, 
but a conversion and turning about of the soul from 
a day whose light is darkness to the veritable day — 
that; ascension ** to reality of our parable which we %vill 
affirm to be true philosophy." " By all means." 
" Must we not, then, consider what studies have the 
power to effect this ? " " Of course." " What, then, 
Glaucon, would be the study that would draw the 
soul away from the world of becoming to the world 
of being ? A thought strikes me while I speak « : Did 
we not say that these men in youth must be athletes 

secondary and subordinate. So, e.g. Urwick, The Message 
of Plato, pp. 66-67. is mistaken when he says "... Plato 
expressly tells us that his education is designed simply and 
solely to awaken the spiritual faculty which every soul 
contains, by ' wheeling the soul round and turning it away 
from the world of change and decay.' He is not concerned 
with any of those ' excellences of mind ' which may be pro- 
duced by training and discipline, his only aim is to open the 
eye of the soul . . ." The general meaning of the sentence 
is plain but the text is disputed. See crit. note. 

• A frequent pretence in Plato. Cf. 370 a, 525 c, Eulhy- 
phro 9 c. Laws 686 c, 702 b, Phaedr. 262 c with Fried- 
lander, Platon, ii. p. 498, Laws 888 d with Tayler Lewis, Plato 
against the Atheists, pp. 118-119. Cf. also Vol. L on 
SQ-t D-z, and Isoc. Antid. 159 ivOvfjMvftai. 5e /xera^u Xiyav, 
Panath. 127. 

147 



PI>ATO 

dvayKOLov elvaL veovg ovras; "E^a/xev yap. Aet 
dpa /cat TOVTO Trpoaex^i-v ro fxddrjixa o ^t^toO/xo', 
TTpos eKeivip. To TToZov; Mi] dxpyjcrrov TToXepLi- 
Kols avSpdaiv etvai. Aet fxevrot, €(f)r], eiTrep otov 
E re. Tv/xvaaTiKfj jjltjv /cat {xovaLKfj ev ye rip rrpoadev 
inaiSevovTO rjulv. *Hv Tavra, €<f)r]. Kat yvpva- 
aTiKrj fiev ttov irepl yiyv6p,€vov /cat aTToXXvpevov 
T€T€VTaK€^' ocopiaTos ydp av^-qs /cat (f>dia€Cos 
eiTLararei. ^atVerat. Tovro pkv 8r] ovk dv clt} 
522 o t,rjTovpev pddrjpa. Ov ydp. 'AAA' dpa povaiKrj, 
ooTjV TO TTporepov Si-qXdopev ; 'AAA' ■T^f e/cet'n^ y*, 
€<^T7, dvTLGrpo(f)os TTJs yvpvacTTiKTJs, €.1 /xe/xi^cat, 
edeoL rraiZevovaa rovs (jivXaKas, /caret re dppdvLav 
evappocTTLav rivd, ovk eTnarrip'qv, irapahiBovaa, 
Kat Kara pvOpov evpvOpiav, ev re rols Adyot? 
irepa tovtcov dSeA^o. ed-q^ drra exovoa, /cat oaot 
•fivdoiheis TOiv Xoyoiv /cat octoi dXii]OLvd)r€pot, rjcav 
pddrjpa 8e Trpos tolovtov tl dyaBov^ otov cru vvv 
B ^Tjrets', ovhev rjv iv avrrj. 'AKpi^earara, rjv S 
iyco, dvapipv-qaKei? pe' t(x> ydp ovtl tolovtov 
ovhkv etj^ei'. dAA', (L haipovie TXavKO)v, tl dv clt] 
tolovtov; at re ydp Te^yaL ^dvavaoL ttov anaaaL 
eSo^av etvaL. ITcos' S' ov; Kal prjv tl er' ciAAo 

* TeTevraK£{i') ADM Euseb., revraKe F, r^revxe d vulg. 

* ^^17 F Euseb., ?<f>ri ADM. 

* dyadbv ADM, S.yov Euseb. et yp D, 07 (sic) F. 

' Cf. 416 D, 422 B, 404 a, and Vol. I. p. 266, note a, on 
403 E. 

* irpocFlx^Lv is here used in its etymological sense. Cf. 
pp. 66-67 on 500 a. 

" This further prerequisite of the higher education follows 
naturally from the plan of the Republic; but it does not 

148 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

of war " ? " " We did." " Then the study for which 
we are seeking must have this additional * qualifica- 
tion." " What one ? " " That it be not useless to 
soldiers." " " \Miy, yes, it must," he said, " if that is 
possible." " But in our previous account they were 
educated in gymnastics and music. <^ " " They were," 
he said. " And gymnastics, I take it, is devoted ^ to 
that which grows and perishes ; for it presides over 
the growth and decay of the body.^ " " Obviously." 
"Then this cannot be the study that we seek." " No." 
" Is it, then, music, so far as we have already de- 
scribed it ?^" "Nay, that," he said," was the counter- 
part of gymnastics, if you remember. It educated 
the guardians through habits, imparting by the 
melody a certain harmony of spirit that is not science,* 
and by the rhythm measure and grace, and also 
quahties akin to these in the words of tales that are 
fables and those that are more nearly true. But it 
included no study that tended to any such good as 
you are now seeking." " Your recollection is most 
exact," I said; "for in fact it had nothing of the 
kind. But in heaven's name, Glaucon, what study 
could there be of that kind ? For all the arts were 
in our opinion base and mechanical.*" "Surely; 

interest Plato much and is, after one or two repetitions, 
dropped. 

<* Cf. supra 376 e flF. 

' For rereiTaKf cf. Tim. 90 B TeTei-ra/cori. 

' Cf. 376 E. This is of course no contradiction of 410 c. 

• The ordinary study of music may cultivate and refine 
feeling. Only the mathematics ai music would develop the 
power of abstract thought. 

* Knowledge in the true sense, as contrasted with opinion 
or habit. 

' Cf. supra, p. 49, note e, on 495 e. This idea, is tlie 
source of much modern prejudice against Plato. 

149 



PLATO 

Xenrerai fxdOrjfxa, jxovaiKrjs Kal yvjxvaaTiKrjs Koi 
Tu>v rexviJJV KexcopLcrfxevov ; Oepe, 'qv 8' iyco, el 
HTjBev en cktos tovtojv cxojxev Xa^elv, tcov im 

C Trdvra reivovrcov tl Xd^co^ev. To ttoZov; OTov 
rovTO TO Koivov, CO TTaaai TTpoa)(^pa)VTai Te^vai re 
Kat, SidvoLaL Kal emarrjiiaL, o Kal Tvavrl ev Trpco- 
Totj avdyKT] jiavddwetv. Ylotov; e(f)7]. To (fyavXov 
rovTO, '^v S' eyo), to ev re Kal rd Svo Kal rd rpia 
8iayt,yvcoaKeLV Xeyco 8e avro ev /ce^aAatoj dptdfxov 
re /cat XoyLajxov. r] ov^ ovtco Trepl rovrcov ej^ei, 
<x)s TTaaa rex^r) re Kal emcrrrjfj,r] dvayKdl,erai 
avrcov fieroxos yiyveadai ; l\al fxdXa, e(f)r]. Ovk- 
ovv, "^v 8' eyo), Kal rj TToXe/xiK-q; IIoXXt], 

D €(1)7), dvdyKrj. YlayyeXoLov yovv, €(f)r]v, arparrjyov 
^Ayafxefivova ev rals rpaycohiais YiaXapnqhrig 
eKdarore a7ro0atVei. t) ovk ewevorjKas on (f)r]alv 
dpt,6jx6v evpojv rds re rd^eis rep arparoTreSo) 
Karaarrjaai, ev TAtoj /cat i^apidfjirjarai vavs re Kal 
rdAAa ndvra, (09 rrpo rod dvapidpL-qrcxiv ovrcov Kal 
rod ^Ayafxefivovos, cl»? eoiKev, ovh oarovs TToSag 
elxev etSdros", etnep dpid/Jielv jxr] rjnLararo ; /cairot 
TTolov nv* avrov otet arparr]y6v elvai; "AroTzov 
nv* , e(f)rj, eywye, el rjv rovr dX-qOes. 

E VII. "AAAo n ovv, rjv S' eyco, [xddr]p,a dvayKaiov 
TToAe/xt/co) dvhpl d-qaofxev Kal Xoyit^eadai re Kal 

' Cf. Symp. 186 b iirl irav reivei, 

^ Sidcotat is not to be pressed in the special sense of 

511 D-E. 

" A playful introduction to Plato's serious treatment of the 
psychology of number and the value of the study of 
mathematics. 
150 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

and yet what other study is left apart from music, 
gj-mnastics and the arts ? " " Come," said I, " if we 
are unable to discover anything outside of these, let us 
take something that applies to all aUke." " " \Miat ? " 
" WTiy, for example, this common thing that all arts 
and forms of thought * and all sciences employ, and 
which is among the first things that everybody must 
learn." " WTiat ? " he said. " This trifling matter,'' " 
I said, " of distinguishing one and two and three. I 
mean, in siun, munber and calculation. Is it not 
true of them that every art and science must neces- 
sarily partake of them ? " " Indeed it is," he said. 
" The art of war too ? " said I. " Most necessarily," 
he said. "Certainly, then," saidI,"Palamedes'*inthe 
play is always making Agamemnon appear a most 
ridiculous * general. Have you not noticed that he 
affirms that by the invention of number he marshalled 
the troops in the army at Troy in ranks and companies 
and enumerated the ships and ever\-thing else as if 
before that they had not been counted, and Aga- 
memnon apparently did not know how many feet 
he had if he couldn't count ? And yet what sort of a 
general do you think he would be in that case ? " 
" A very queer one in my opinion," he said, " if that 
was true." 

VII. " Shall we not, then," I said, " set down as a 
study requisite for a soldier the ability to reckon and 

•* Palamedes, like Prometheus, is a " culture hero," who 
personifies in Greek tragedy the inventions and discoveries 
that produced civilization. Cf. the speech of Prometheus 
la Aesch. Prom. 459 fF. and Harvard Studies, xii. p. 208, 
n. 2. 

• Quoted by later writers in praise of mathematics. Cf. 
Theo Smj-m. p. 7 ed. Gelder. For the necessity of mathe- 
matics cf. Lairs 818 c 

151 



PLATO 

dpidfie'LV Svvacrdai; IldvTcov y , '^^'^> \i6Xiara, et 
/cat oTiovv fieXXei Ta^eoiv eTTOteii^ fxoiXXov S' el Kal 
dvdpojTTos eaeadai. *Eivvo€ts ovv, elnov, Trepl 
Tovro TO fiddrjiia oirep iyco; To ttolov; KtvSy- 
523 V€V€L Tcbv rrpos ttjv vorjoiv dyovrcov <f)V(T€t elvai 
d)v l^r]TOVfi€v, ^^p-i^CT^at 8' ovSels avrcp opdcos, cXkti- 
Kcp dvTi TTavrdTTaai rrpos ovuiav. ITaj?, ^4''^> 
Xeyeis; 'Eycu Treipdaopbat, -^v 8' iyco, to y* €p.oL 
SoKouv Sr]XdJaaL. d yap Siaipovfiai Trap e/xauro) 
dycoyd re etvai ol Xeyo^iev /cat /xt^, ^vvdearrfs 
yevofievos ^vp(^a6i, t} ctTretTre, ii^a /cat tovto aa(f>e- 
arepov lihcofiev et ecrrcv olov fMavrevofxat. AeiKVV, 
ecjiTj. AeiKwiJii Stj, €LTTov, et KadopaSj rd pukv ev 
B rat? alad-qaeaiv ov TrapaKaXovvra ttjv vo-qcriv et? 
inLGKeipiv, COS iKavcos vtto rrjs aladrjcreois Kpivo- 
fieva, rd 8e TravrdTraai SiaKeXevofxeva eKeCvqv 
iTtiOKeipaadai, to? ri)s aladi/^aecos ovSev vytks 
TTOiovarjg. Ta TToppcodev, €(f>r], <f)aiv6p,eva SrjXov 
or I Xeyeis /cat rd eo-/ctaypa^i7/xeVa. Oi5 Trdvv, ■^v 
8' iyd), ervx^s ov Xeyw. Ylota p-rfv, e^rj, Xeyets; 
To. pev ov TrapaKaXovvra, rjv 8' eyd), daa prj 

« Cf. Laws 819 d. 

*" Plato's point of view here, as he will explain, is precisely 
the opposite of that of modern educators who won Id teach 
mathematics concretely and not puzzle the children with 
abstract log'ic. But in the Laws where he is speaking of 
primary and secondary education for the entire population 
he anticipates the modern kindergarten ideas (819 b-c). 

" For (rarpearepov cf. 523 c. Cf. Vol. I. p. 47, note /, on 
338 D, and What Plato Said, p. 503, on Gorg. 463 d. 

" Cf. I'hileb. 38 c. Unity of Plato's ThovgJd, n. 337. 

152 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

number ? " " Most certainly, if he is to know any- 
thing whatever of the ordering of his troops — or 
rather if he is to be a man at all.'*" " Do you observe 
then," said I, " in this study what I do ? " " What ? " 
"It seems hkely that it is one of those studies which 
we are seeking that naturally conduce to the awaken- 
ing of thought, but that no one makes the right use ^ of 
it, though it really does tend to draw the mind to 
essence and reahty." "What do you mean?" he 
said. " I will try," I said, " to show you at least my 
opinion. Do you keep watch and observe the things 
I distinguish in my mind as being or not being con- 
ducive to our purpose, and either concur or dissent, 
in order that here too we may see more clearly ^ 
whether my surmise is right." " Point them out," 
he said. " I do point them out," I said, " if you can 
discern that some reports of our perceptions do not 
provoke thought to reconsideration because the 
judgement** of them by sensation seems adequate,* 
wliile others always invite the intellect to reflection 
because the sensation yields nothing that can be 
trusted.' " " You obviously mean distant ' appear- 
ances," he said, " and shadow-painting.'* " " You 
have quite missed my meaning,* " said I. " Wliat do 
you mean ? " he said. " The experiences that do not 
provoke thought are those that do not at the same 

" lKauQ>s is not to be pressed here. 

' For ovUv vyth cf. 496 c, 5S4. a, 589 c, Phaedo 69 b, 89 e, 
90 E, Garg. 524 e. Laws 776 e, Thecut. 173 b, Eurip. Phoe7i. 
201, Bacch. 262, Hel. 746, etc. 

" The most obvious cause of errors of judgement. Cf.Laxc^ 
663 b. 

* Cf. Vol. I. p. 137 on 365 c. 

* The dramatic misapprehension by the interlocutor is one 
of Plato's methods for enforcing his meaning. Cf. on 529 a, 
p. ISO, note a. Laws 792 b-c. 

153 



PLATO 

C CK^aivei €1? evavriav atadrjaiv afxa' to. 8* eK^ai- 
vovra (OS irapaKaXovvra rid-qixL, eTretSav' -q atad-qais 
fiTjSev {.LoXXov TOVTO t) TO ivavTLOv Sr]XoL, eir' 
eyyvdev TrpocTTTiTTTOvaa etre TToppojdev. tSSe Se a 
Xeyco aa(j>4aTepov eLcrei. ovrot, (/la/xeV, rpets av 
etev SaKTvXoi, 6 re apuKporaTOS koI 6 Sevrepos 
/cat o fieaos. Udvv y', €(f)7j. 'Qg iyyvdev roiwv 
opcofxevovs XeyovTos p-ov hiavoov. aXXd poi nepl 
avTwv ToSe aKoirei. To ttoIov; AolktvXos puev 

D avTciJv (f)atv€Tai, 6p,otcos eKaoTOs, /cat ravrrj ye 
ovhev Sta^e'pei, idv re iv peacp opdrai idv r' iv 
iaxdro), idv re XevKos idv re /xeAa?, eav re vaxvs 
eav T€ AeTTTos, /cat Trai^ o rt tolovtov. iv Trdai yap 
TOVTOLs ovK dvayKdt,€Tai tcov ttoXXcop rj ipvxr] rrjv 
voiqaLV ewepeadai rt ttot iari Sa/cruAos" ovSapLov 
yap r) oipig avrfj apa iarjpr^ve rov SdKTvXov tov- 
vavriov r) hdKTvXov elvai. Ov yap ovv, ecfyrj. OvK- 
ovv, Tjv 8 eyc6, ei/cdro)? to ye tolovtov voiqaecos 

E ou/<r ai' TTapaKXrjTiKov ou8' iyepTLKov eiTj. Ei/coto^?. 
Ti 8€ 8r^; to p,iye9os avTOJV /cat tt);' apiKpoTTjTa 
r^ oipLS dpa LKavdJs opa, Kau ovSev avTjj Sta^epei iv 
piao) Tcvd avTOjv KelcrOat, rj e7r' ia^dTw; /cat 

" Cf. Jacks, Alchemy of Thought, p. 29: "The purpose of 
the world, then, being to attain consciousness of itself as a 
rational or consistent whole, is it not a little strange that the 
first step, so to speak, taken by the world for the attainment 
of this end is that of presenting itself in the form of con- 
tradictory experience ? " atV^Tycris is not to be pressed. Adam's 
condescending apology for the primitive character of Plato's 
psychology here is as uncalled-for as all such apologies. 
Plato varies the expression, but his meaning is clear. Cf. 
524 D. No modern psychologists are able to use " sensa- 
tion," "perception," "judgement," and similar terms with 
perfect consistency. 

* For irpoffTriiTTovcra cf. Tim. 33 a, 44 a, 66 a. Rep. 515 a, 
154, 



I 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

time issue in a contradictory perception.^ Those that 
do have that effect I set down as provocatives, when 
the perception no more manifests one thing than its 
contrary, aUke whether its impact * comes from nearby 
or afar. An illustration will make my meaning 
plain. Here, we say, are three fingers, the Httle 
finger, the second and the middle." " Quite so," he 
said. " Assume that I speak of them as seen near 
at hand. But this is the point that you are to con- 
sider." " What ? " " Each one of them appears to 
be equally a finger,*' and in this respect it makes no 
difference whether it is observed as intermediate or 
at either extreme, whether it is white or black, thick 
or thin, or of any other quality of this kind. For in 
none of these cases is the soul of most men impelled 
to question the reason and to ask what in the world 
is a finger, since the faculty of sight never signifies 
to it at the same time that the finger is the opposite 
of a finger." "Why, no, it does not," he said. 
" Then," said I, " it is to be expected that such a 
perception will not provoke or awaken** reflection and 
thought." " It is." " But now, what about the 
bigness and the smallness of these objects ? Is our 
vision's \iew of them adequate, and does it make no 
difference to it whether one of them is situated * out- 
side or in the middle ; and similarly of the relation of 

561 c. Laics 791 c, 6S-2 a, 637 a, Phileb. 21 c; also accidere in 
Lucretius, f.g. iv. 8S2, ii. 1024-1025, iv. 236 and iii. 841, and 
Goethe's " Das Blenden der Erscheinung, die sich an unsere 
Sinne drangt." 

' This anticipates Aristotle's doctrine that "substances" 
do not, as qualities do, admit of more or less. 

* We should never press sjTionyms which Plato employs 
for ToiKiKia. of style or to avoid falling into a rut of 
terminology. 

• KdaOai perhaps anticipates the Aristotelian category. 

155 



PLATO 

waavTcos Trdxos Kal XeirTOT-qra t) jjbaXaKorrjTa Kat 
aKX-qp6r7]Ta rj d(f)T]; Kal at aAAat atadrjaeis d.p 
ovK ivSecos TO. Toiavra h-qXovaLv; ■^ c58e TTOieZ 
52 A eKd(JT7] avTOJv rrpchTOv jxev rj irrl to) aKXrjpcp re- 
TayfievT] atadrjais rjvdyKacrrai /cat irrl rco piaXaKip 
rerdxdai, /cat TrapayyeXXeL rfj iffvxfj d)S ravrov 
OKXrfpov T€ /cat jxaXaKOV alcrdavof-Levrj ; Ovtojs, 
e^^. OvKovp, rjv S' iyci), dvayKalov ev tols roiov- 
roL'S av TTjv ipvxrjv dnopeZv, ri ttotc arjpLaivGi avrfj 
rj atadrjOLS to aKXrjpov, eluep ro avro /cat piaXaKov 
Xeyci, /cat 17 tov Kov(f)ov Kal rj rov ^apeos, tl to 
Kovcfyov Kal ^apv, et ro re ^apv Kovtfiov /cat ro 
B KOV(J)Ov ^apv a-qpiaivet; Kat yap, e^ry, aurat ye 
droTTOi rfj ifjuxfj 0.I ippLrjvelai Kal eTTKJKeipeoiS 
Seo/xevai. Et/cdrco? dpa, rjv S' iyco, iv rols roiov- 
roLS TTpcoTOv Liev Tretparat Xoyiapiov re /cat vorjaiv 
ifjvxr} TrapaKaAovaa emaKOTreiv, etre €V etre ovo 
iarlv eKaara rcbv elaayyeXXoplvojv. riaj? o ov; 
OvKovv idv 8vo (f>aLvr]rai, erepov re /cat €V e/ca- 

» Cf. Theaet. 186 ff., Tim. 62 b, Taylor, Timaeus, p. 233 
on 63 D-E, Unity of Plato's Thought, nn. 222 and 225, 
Diels, Dialer. 5 (ii.» p. 341). Protag. 331 d anticipates this 
thought, but Protagoras cannot follow it out. Cf. also 
Phileb. 13 a-b. Stallbaum also compares Phileh. 57 d and 
56 c f. 

* Plato gives a very modern psychological explanation. 
Thought is provoked by the contradictions in perceptions 
that suggest problems. The very notion of unity is contra- 
dictory of uninterpreted e.-cperience. This use of airopeiv (cf. 
supra 515 d) anticipates much modern psychology supposed 
to be new. Cf. e.g. Herbert Spencer passim, and Dewey, 
How We Think, p. 12 " We may recapitulate by saying that 
the origin of thinking is some perplexity, confusion, or 
doubt " ; also ibid. p. 72. Meyerson, Deduction relativiste 

156 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

touch, to thickness and thinness, softness and hard- 
ness ? And are not the other senses also defective in 
their reports of such things ? Or is the operation of 
each of them as follows ? In the first place, the sensa- 
tion that is set over the hard is of necessity related 
also to the soft j"^ and it reports to the soul that the same 
thing is both hard and soft to its perception." " It is 
so," he said. " Then," said I, " is not this again a 
case where the soul must be at a loss * as to what sig- 
nificance for it the sensation of hardness has, if the 
sense reports the same thing as also soft ? And, 
similarly, as to what the sensation of light and heavy 
means by light and heavy, if it reports the heavy as 
light, and the light as heavy ? " " Yes, indeed," he 
said, " these communications " to the soul are strange 
and invite reconsideration." " Naturally, then," said 
I, "it is in such cases as these that the soul first 
summons to its aid the calculating reason ** and tries 
to consider whether each of the things reported to it 
is one or two.* " " Of course." " And if it appears 
to be two, each of the two is a distinct unit.' " 

p. 142, says " Mais Platon . . . n'avait-il pas dit qu'il etait 
impossible de raisonner si ce n'est en partant d'une percep- 
tion? " citing Rfp. 523-534, and Rodier, Aristot. De anima, 
i. p. 197. But that is not Plato's point here. Zeller, Aristot. 
i. p. 166 (Eng.), also misses the point when he says " Even 
as to the passage from the former to the latter he had only 
the negative doctrine that the contradictions of opinion and 
fancy ought to lead us to go further and to pass to the pure 
treatment of ideas." 

' For epfjL-qi'eiai cf. Theaet. 209 a. 

' Cf. Parmen. 1.S0 a roh Xoyiaiu} Xafi^avofievot^. 

• Cf. Thmet. 185 b. Laws 963 c, Sophist 254 d, Hipp. 
Major 301 d-e, and, for the dialectic here, Parmen. 143 d. 

^ Or, as the Greek puts it, " both ' one ' and ' other.' " Cf. 
Vol. I. p. 516, note / on 476 a. For Irepoj' cf. What Plato 
Said, pp. 522, 580, 587-588. 

157 



PLATO 

rcpov (f)aiv€Tai; Nat. Ei djja ev eKarepov, aficjio- 
T€pa 8e Svo, ra ye hvo Kexcoptofxeva vorjaei- ov 

C yap av ax(x)piard ye Suo ivoei, dAA' ev. ^Opdws. 
Meya firjv /cat oi/rt? Kal apuKpov ecopa, <f>apLev, 
aAA' oy Kex(iipiopLevov dAAa avyKexv/xevov rt. ■^ 
ya/o; Nai. Aid Se ttjv tovtov aacji-qveiav [xeya av 
Kai afUKpov 7) vo-qais "qvayKaadr) ISelv, ov avy- 
KexvfJLeva aXXa huopiapLeva, Tovvavriov -q ^Keivrj. 
AXi^drj. OvKOVv evrevdev rrodev irpcoTov eirep- 
X^raL epeadai rjixlv, tl ovv ttot' eaTi to /xeya av 
Kai TO apLLKpov ; HavTaTTaai pikv ovv. Kat ovTOi 
Srj TO fiev voTjTov, to 8' opaTov eKoXecrafiev. 

D OpdoTaT^ , e^rj, 

VTII. TavTa Toivvv /cat dprt eTrex^ipovv Xeyeiv, 
(OS TO. pikv TTapaKXrjTLKa ttjs Biavoias eVrt, to. 8' 
ov, a p.€v et? TYjv alaOrjcnv ap,a Totg evavTiots 
eavTois epLTTLTTTei, TrapaKXrjTiKa opil^opievos, oaa 
Se pur], ovK eyepTLKo. Trjg voijaecvs. Mavddvu) 
TOLVvv tJSt], €^^, Kal SoKet puoi ovTCOs. Tt ovv; 

" 76 vi termini. Cf. 379 b, 576 c, Parmen. 145 a, Protag. 
358 c. 

* Kexupicfx^va and ax^pi-cTTa suggest the terminology of 
Aristotle in dealing with the problem of abstraction. 

' Plato's aim is the opposite of that of the modern theorists 
who say that teaching should deal integrally with the total 
experience and not with the artificial division of abstrac- 
tion. 

** The final use of 5ia became more frequent in later Greek. 
Cf. Aristot. Met. 982 b 20, Eth. Nic. 1110 a 4, Gen. an. 
717 a 6, Poetics 1450 b 3, 1451 b 37. Cf. Lysis 218 d, Epin. 
975 A, Olympiodorus, Life of Plato, Teubner vi. 191, ibid. 
p. 218, and schol. passim, Apsines, Spengel i. 361, line 18. 

• Plato merely means that this is the psychological origin 

158 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

" Yes." " If, then, each is one and both two, the 
very meaning " of ' two ' is that th« soul will conceive 
them as distinct.'' For if they were not separable, 
it would not have been thinking of two, but of 
one." "Right." "Sight too saw the great and 
the small, we say, not separated but confounded.*^ 
Is not that so ? " " Yes." " And for <* the clarifica- 
tion of this, the intelligence is compelled to con- 
template the great and small,* not thus confounded 
but as distinct entities, in the opposite way from 
sensation." " True." " And is it not in'some such 
experience as this that the question first occiu-s to us, 
what in the world, then, is the great and the small? " 
" By all means." " And this is the origin of the 
designation intelligible for the one, and visible for the 
other." " Just so," he said. 

VIII. " This, then, is just what I was trying to 
explain a little while ago when I said that some things 
are provocative of thought and some are not, defining 
as provocative things that impinge upon the senses 
together with their opposites, while those that 
do not I said do not tend to awaken reflection." 
"Well, now I understand," he said, "and agree." 

of our attempt to form abstract and general ideas. My 
suggestion that this passage is the probable source of the 
notion which still infests the history of philosophy, that the 
great-and-the-small was a metaphysical entity or principle in 
Plato's later philosophy, to be identified with the indeter- 
minate dyad, has been disregarded. Cf. Unity of Plato's 
Thought, p. 84. But it is the only plausible explanation that 
has ever been proposed of the attribution of that "clotted 
nonsense " to Plato himself. For it is fallacious to identify 
fuaWov rai -frrrov in Philebus 24 c, 25 c, 27 e, and else- 
where with the niya kclI amKpdv. But there is no limit to 
the misapprehension of texts by hasty or fanciful readers in 
any age. 

159 



PLATO 

apiOfMos T€ /cat TO iv TToripcov SoKel etuai,; Ov 
gvvvocb, ^(f>rj. 'AAA' e/c tcov TrpoeiprjfjLevojv, e(f>7}v, 
avaXoyL^ov. el fiev yap LKavws avro Kad^ avro 

E opdrai 7} dXXr] tlvl alad-qaei Xajji^dveTai, ro ev, 
ovK av oXkov e'irj irrl rrjv ovaiav, wairep eTrl rov 
8aKTvXov iXeyofiev el S' del ri aura) djxa opdrai 
evavTUjop,a, mare [x,-r]8ev fidXXov ev rj /cat rovvavrlov 
^alveadai, rov errLKpivovvTo^ Br] Seot av rjSr] /cat 
avayKdt,oiT dv ev auroi ^v)(r} dnopetv /cat tprjreZvy 
KLVovaa €V eavrfj rrjv evvoiav, /cat dvepojrdv, rl 
525 TTOT eoTLV avro to ev, /cat ovrco tcov dycoycbv dv 
eirj /cat fxeraaTpeTTTtKcov eVt rrjv rod ovros deav rj 
rrepL ro ev fxddrjGLs. 'AAAo. jxevroi, e^Tj, rovro y 
e^ei ovx rJKLara rj irepl avro^ oijjis' djia yap 
ravrov d)s ev re opdj/xev /cat cos direipa ro TrXrjdos. 
OvKOVV e'lrrep ro ev, rjv 8' eyay, /cat ^vfxvas dpidpio? 
ravrov Trenovde rovrco; Wcos 8' ov; 'AAAo. jitT^v 
XoyLcrriKTi re /cat dpi,6fMr]rLKr) rrepl dpidjxov rrdaa. 

B Kat fxdXa. Taura 8e ye ihalverat, ay my a rrpos 
dX-rjOeiav. 'TTre/a^ucDj fxev ovv, ^Q.v ^r^rovfiev dpa, 
COS eoLKe, ixadrjpidroiv dv etr)' rroXefxiKip fiev yap 
Std rds rd^eis dvayKaiov fiadetv ravra, (jtiXo- 

^ aiirb F lamblichus, t6 ai>T6 AD, 

" To waive metaphysics, unity is, as modern mathemati- 
cians say, a concept of the mind which experience breaks 
up. The thought is familiar to Plato from the Meno to the 
Parmenides. But it is not true that Plato derived the very 
notion of the concept from the problem of the one and the 
many. Unity is a typical concept, but the consciousness of 
the concept was developed by the Socratic quest for the 
definition. 

^ (7/. 523 b. The meaning must be gathered from the context. 

* See crit. note and Adam ad loc. 

160 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

" To which class, then, do you think number and 
the one belong"?" "I cannot conceive," he said. 
" Well, reason it out from what has already been 
said. For, if unity is adequately ^ seen by itself or 
apprehended by some other sensation, it would not 
tend to draw the mind to the apprehension of essence, 
as we were explaining in the case of the finger. But 
if some contradiction is always seen coincidentally 
with it, so that it no more appears to be one than the 
opposite, there would forthwith be need of something 
to judge between them, and it would compel the soul 
to be at a loss and to inquire, by arousing thought in 
itself, and to ask, whatever then is the one as such, 
and thus the study of unity will be one of the studies 
that guide and convert the soul to the contemplation 
of true being." " But surely," he said, " the \-isual 
perception of it "^ does especially involve this. For we 
see the same thing at once as one and as an indefinite 
plurahty.** " " Then if this is true of the one," I said, 
" the same holds of all number, does it not ? " " Of 
course." " But, further, reckoning and the science 
of arithmetic* are wholly concerned with number." 
" They are, indeed." " And the qualities of number 
appear to lead to the apprehension of truth." " Be- 
yond anything," he said. " Then, as it seems, these 
would be araong the studies that we are seeking. 
For a soldier must learn them in order to marshal his 
troops, and a philosopher, because he must rise out of 

** This is the problem of the one and the many with which 
Piato often plays, which he exhaustively and consciously 
illustrates in the Pannenides, and whicii the introduction 
to the Philebus treats as a metaphysical nuisance to be dis- 
regarded in practical logic. We have not yet got rid of it, 
but have merely transferred it to psychology. 

• Cf. Gorg. 450 d, 451 b-c. 
VOL. II H VS^ 



PLATO 

a6(f)cp 8e Sta to ri]s ovaias aTrreou elvai yeveaecos 

\ i^avaSvvTL, t] fjirjSeTTore XoytariKcp yeviaOai. "Ectti 

j ravr , €(f)7]. *0 Se ye rnxerepos <f)vXa^ noXefMLKos 

I re /cat ^iXoaocjjos rvyxo-vei cov. Ti fii^v; ITpoc7- 

iJKov S-q TO jjiddrjixa dv e'it], (L VXavKcov, vofxode- J 

TTJaaL /cat treideiv Tovg jxeXXovTas iv ttj rroXei. rdv \ 

C [i-eyiaTOiv [xede^eLV cttI XoytaTiKrjv teVat /cat dv9- 

aTTTeadai avTrjs /xtj lSlcotckcos, oAA' ecus d.v Ittl 

Oeav TTJs Tcov dptdfiwv (f)vaea)s d(f)iKO)VTai, rfj 

vo-qcrei avTjj, ovk wvrjs ovSe rrpdaecDS X^P'-^ ^^ 

efXTTopovs T] Ka7T7]Xovs fxeXercvvras , dXX' eVe/ca 

TToXefiov T€ /cat avTTJs rrjs ^^XV^ paaTcovrjs 

i IJieTaaTpo(f)7Js dno yeveaecos eV dXrjOeidv re /cat 

j ovaiav. KctAAtar', e<^'r], Xeyeis- Kat p-rfv, '^v 8' 

eyo), vvv /cat evvoco prjdevros rov irepl rovs Aoytcr- 

D fiovs fiadrjfjiaros, cLs KOfxipov iari /cat TroXXaxfj 

, XPV'^^H-^^ rjpuv rrpos o ^ovXafxeda, edv rov yvcopit^eiv 

[ eveKa ris avro eTrirr^hevrj , dXXd p,rj rov KaTrrjXevetv . 

" Cf. my review of Jowett, A. J. P. xiii. p. 365. My view 
there is adopted by Adam ad loc, and Apelt translates in 
the same way. 

* It is not true as Adam says that " the nature of numbers 
cannot be fully seen except in their connexion with the 
Good." Plato never says that and never really meant it, 
though he might possibly have affirmed it on a challenge. 
Numbers are typical abstractions and educate the mind for 
the apprehension of abstractions if studied in their nature, 
in themselves, and not in the concrete form of five apples. 
There is no common sense nor natural connexion between 
numbers and the good, except the point made in the Timaeus 
53 B, and which is not relevant here, that God used numbers 
and forms to make a cosmos out of a chaos. 

" Instead of remarking on Plato's scorn for the realities 
of experience we should note that he is marking the dis- 
tinctive quality of the mind of the Greeks in contrast with 
the Egyptians and orientals from whom they learned and 

162 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

the region of generation and lay hold on essence or 
he can never become a true reckoner." " " It is so," he 
said. " And our guardian is soldier and philosopher 
in one." " Of course." " It is befitting, then, 
Glaucon, that this branch of learning should be pre- 
scribed by our law and that we should induce those 
who are to share the highest functions of state to 
enter uf>on that study of calculation and take hold of 
it, not as amateurs, but to follow it up until they attain 
to the contemplation of the nature of number,'' by 
pure thought, not for the purpose of buying and 
selling,'' as if they were preparing to be merchants or 
hucksters, but for the uses of war and for facihtating 
the conversion of the soul itself from the world of 
generation to essence and truth." " Excellently 
said," he replied. " And, further," I said, " it occurs 
to me,** now that the study of reckoning has been 
mentioned, that there is something fine in it, and that , 
it is useful for our purpose in many ways, pro\ided 
it is pursued for the sake of knowledge ^ and not for j 

the Romans whom they taught. Cf. infra o2o d Ka-n)\ivetw^ 
and Horace, Ars Poetical 333-332, Cic. Txtsr. i. 2. 5. Per 
contra Xen. Mem. iv. 7, and Libby, Introduction to History 
of Science, p. 49 : " In this the writer did not aim at the 
mental discipline of the students, but sought to confine 
himself to what is easiest and most useful in calculation, 
* such as men constantly require in cases of inheritance, 
legacies, partition, law-suits, and trade, and in all their 
dealings with one another, or where the measuring of lands, 
the digging of canals, geometrical computation, and other 
objects of various sorts and kinds are concerned.' " 

«* Cf. on 521 D, p. 147, note e. 

• Cf. Aristot. Jlet. 982 a 15 toD eiS^pai x<ip"'» and Imws 
747 c. Montesquieu apud Arnold, Culture and Anarchy, 
p. 6 : " The first motive which ought to impel us to study 
is the dciire to augment the excellence of our nature and to 
render an intelligent being more intelligent." 

163 



PLATO 

n^ Srj; e(f>r]. Tovro ye, o vvv Srj eXiyo^ev, wg 
a(f>6hpa avoi ttol ayei rrjv i/jvxrjv /cat Trepl avTcov 
Tcbv apidfxcjv dvay/ca^et StaAeyecr^at, ovSafifj oltto- 
8e)(6fi€vov idv rig avrfj opara r) aina ac6p.aTa 
exovras dpidp^ovs Trporeivofxevog StaXeyrjTai. olada 
J] yap 7TOV Tovs nepc ravra Seivovs (Ls, idv ng 
avTO TO ev emx^tpfj rco Xoyco refxveLV, KarayeXojal 
re Kal ovk dTTohexovrai, aXX idv av KepjxaTil^rjs 
avrOy eKelvoL TroXXaTrXacnovaiv , €vXa^ovfM€voi ixri 
TTore ^avfj ro ev jxtj iv dXXd rroXXd fiopia. ^AXrjOe- 
526 arara, e(f>7], Xeyeis. Tt ovv o'Ul, a> TXavKcov, et 
Ti? kpoLTO avTovs, (I) dav/xdaLoi, Trepl ttolcov dpi- 
Bficbv hiaXiyecrde, iv ols to ev otov vfxeis d^iovTe 
eoTLV, LGOV Te eKaoTov irdv ttovtI /cat ovhe afjuKpov 
Sia(f)epov, ij.6pi.6v T€ exov iv iavTco ovSev; tL dv 
otei auTOUS" aTTOKpivaaOai; Tovto eycoye, otc nepl 
rovTCDV Xeyovaiv, ojv SiavorjdrjvaL p.6vov iyxoipel. 



" Lit, " numbers (in) themselves," i.e. ideal numbers or the 
ideas of numbers. For this and the following as one of the 
sources of the silly notion that mathematical numbers are 
intermediate between ideal and concrete numbers, cf. my 
De Platonis Idearum Doctrina, p. 33, Unity of Plato's Thought, 
pp. 83-84, Class. Phil. xxii. (1927) pp. 213-218. 

* Cf. Meno 79 c KaTaKepnarl^r]?, Aristot. Met. 1041 a 19 
ddiaiperov irpbs avrb '^KaaTov tovto d' 9jt> rd evl elvai. Met. 
1052 b 1 ff., 15 ff. and 1053 a 1 tt)v yap fiovada Tiffiaa-i ir&vrr} 
ddialperov. Kepnari^eLv is also the word used of breaking 
money into small change. 

" Numbers are the aptest illustration of the principle of 
the Philebus and the Parmenides that thought has to 
postulate unities which sensation (sense perception) and also 
dialectics are constantly disintegrating into pluralities. Cf. 
my Idea of Oood in Plato's Reptiblic, p. 222. Stenzel, 
Dialektik, p. 32, says this dismisses the problem of the one 
and the many " das ihn (Plato) spater so lebhaft beschaftigen 

164 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

huckstering." " In whairespect ? " he said. " VVhy, 
in respect of the very point of which we were speaking, 
that it strongly directs the soul upward and compels 
it to discourse about pure numbers ,° never acquiescing 
if anyone proffers to it in the discussion numbers 
attached to \isible and tangible bodies. For you are 
doubtless aware that experts in this study, if anyone 
attempts to cut up the ' one ' in argimnent, laugh at 
him and refuse to allow it ; but if you mince it up,* 
they multiply, always on guard lest the one should 
appear to be not one but a multiphcity of parts.'' " 
" Most true," he replied. " Suppose now, Glaucon, 
someone were to ask them, ' My good friends, what 
numbers ** are these you are talking about, in which 
the one is such as you postulate, each unity equal to 
every other without the slightest difference and 
admitting no division into parts ? ' What do you think 
would be their answer ? " " This, I think — that they 
are speaking of units which can only be conceived by 
thought, and which it is not possible to deal with in 

sollte." But that is refuted by Parmen. 159 c ovU fi^v 
fjLopid ye ^x*"" ^M^** '''o ws akrjdwi fv. The " problem " was 
always in Plato's mind. He played with it when it suited 
his purpose and dismissed it when he wished to go on to 
something else. Cf. on 525 a, Phaedr. 266 b, Meno 12 c, 
IjOws 964 A, Soph. 251. 

^ This is one of the chief sources of the fancy that numbers 
are intermediate entities between ideas and things. Cf. 
Alexander, Space, Time, and Deity, i. p. 219 : '" Mathematical 
particulars are therefore not as Plato thought intermediate 
between sensible figures and universals. Sensible figures 
are only less simple mathematical ones." Cf. on 525 d. 
Plato here and elsewhere simply means that the educator 
may distinguish two kinds of numbers, — five apples, and 
the number five as an abstract idea. Cf. Theaet. 195 e : We 
couldn't err about eleven which we only think, i.e. the 
abstract number eleven. Cf. also Berkeley, Siris, § 288. 

165 



PLATO 

dXXo)s S' ovSafjbOis />teTa;^eipt^ea0at Swarov. 'Opas 
ovv, -qv B €y(x), c5 ^t'Ae, on rep ovri dvayKalov rjfxiv 

B KivSvvevcL eti^at to ^ddrjfjia, eTreiSi) (fiaLverai, ye 
TTpoaavayKa^ov avrfj rfj voijaei ^prjaOat rrfv ipv^^v 
err' avrrjv rrjv aX-qOeiav; Kat p,kv hiq, €(f)T], a^ohpa 
ye 770161 avro. Tt Sat; rdSe rihrj eTreaKeifjoi, (hs 
oi re (f)V(jeL XoycarLKol els Trdvra rd jj-ad-qpiara cos 
errog elneZv d^eZs (f>vovraL, ot re ^paSels, dv ev 
rovro) TTaLhevOcoaL /cat yvpivdacovrai, Kav p,rjSev 
dXXo (l}(j)eXrjda)aiv, dp-cos eXs ye ro o^vrepoi avrol 
avrci)v yiyveadai ndvres eTnSLSoacnv; "Eioriv, e(f)rj, 

C ovrws. Kat pi'i]v, ws eycopLai, d ye pieit,a) ttovov 
TTapex^i' piavddvovri /cat pLeXerwvri, ovk dv paSicos 
ovSe TToAAd dv evpoLs cos rovro. Ov ydp ovv. 
Ildvrciiv Srj eveKa rovrcov ovk dcfiereov ro piddr)p,a, 
dAA' ot dpiaroL rds ^vaeis TraiSevreot ev avraj. 
'H,vpL(l>r]piL, T^ 8' 6'?. 

IX. TouTO pi€V roLVVv, elrrov, ev tjjxlv KelaOco' 
bevrepov Se to i)(6pievov rovrov OKeipcopieOa dpd ri 
7TpoaT]KeL rjp.tv. To ttoIov; r) yewpcerpiav, e(f>7], 
Xeyeis; Avrd rovro, r^v 8' eyd). "Ocrov p-ev, e(j>ri, 

D trpos rd TToXepLLKd avrov retvei, drjXov on TrpoarjKef 
Tipos ydp rds arparoTTeSevcreis /cat KaraXijipeis 

" Cf. Isoc. Antid. 267 avrol 5' avrQv evixadianpoi. For 
the idiom avrol avrwv cf. also 411 c, 421 d, 571 d, Prot. 
350 A and d, Laws 671 b, Parmen. 141 a, Laches 182 c. 
Plato of course believed in mental discipline or " spread." 
" Educators " have actually cited him as authority for the 
opposite view. On the effect of mathematical studies cf. 
also Laws 747 b, 809 c-d, 819 c, Isoc. Antid. 265. Cf. Max. 
Tyr. 37 § 7 aXKa rovro ix^v ett] &v rt, rwv ev yecofxerpig. rd 
<pav\6rarov. Mill on Hamilton ii. 311 "If the practice of 
mathematical reasoning gives nothing else it gives wariness 
of mind." Ibid. 312. 
166 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

any other way." " You see, then, my friend," said 
I, " that this branch of study really seems to be in- 
dispensable for us, since it plainly compels the soul 
to employ pure thought with a view to truth itself." 
" It most emphatically does." " Again, have you 
ever noticed this, that natural reckoners are by nature 
quick in virtually all their studies ? And the slow, 
if they are trained and drilled in this, even if no other 
benefit results, all improve and become quicker than 
they were " ? " " It is so," he said. " And, further, 
as I believe, studies that demand more toil in the 
learning and practice than this we shall not discover 
easily nor find many of them.* " " You will not, in 
fact." " Then, for all these reasons, we must not 
neglect this study, but must use it in the education 
of the best endowed natures." " I agree," he said. 
IX. " Assuming this one point to be established," I 
said, " let us in the second place consider whether the 
study that comes next " is suited to our purpose." 
" What is that ? Do you mean geometry," he said. 
" Precisely that," said I. "So much of it," he said, " as 
applies to the conduct of war** is obxiously suitable. 
For in dealing with encampments and the occupation 

> The translation is, I think, right. Cf. A. J. P. xiii. p. 365, 
and Adam ad loc. 

" Cf. Burnet, Early Greek Philosophy, p. Ill: "Even 
Plato puts arithmetic before geometry in the Republic in 
deference to tradition." For the three branches of higher 
learning, arithmetic, geometry, and astronomy, cf. Laws 
817 E-818 A, Isoc. Antid. 261-267, Panath. 26, Bus. 226; Max. 
Tyr. 37 § 7. 

* Cf. Basilicon Doron (Morley, A Miscellany, p. 144): 
" I graunt it is meete yee have some entrance, specially in 
the Mathematickes, for the knowledge of the art militarie, 
in situation of Campes, ordering of battels, making fortifica- 
tions, placing of batteries, or such like." 

167 



PLATO 

Xcopiiov /cat crvvaywyas Kal CKToicreis arparias, /cat 
baa Stj dXXa ax'r]fjt'0.rit,ovaL ra aTparoveSa iv av- 
rats re tols iia.-)(aig /cat TTopelais, BiacfiepoL av 
avTos avTov yecojJieTpiKos /cat fjirj a)V. 'AAA' ovv 
S-q, €L7Tov, TTpos fx€v TOL ToiavTa ^pa^v Tt av i^apKol 
yeojfjLerpias re /cat Xoyia-jxcov fjLopiov to Se ttoXv 
E avrrjg /cat TToppcorepco irpo'Cov aKOTreZaOai Set, et 
Tt TTpo'5 eKeZvo reivei, rrpos ro ttolcZv KarihcZv paov 
rqv rod dyadov ISeav. reivei hi, (f)afjiev, iravra av- 
rocre, oaa avayKa^eL ipvx'^v et? eKelvov rov roirov 
fxeraarpei^eadai, ev c5 eaTt ro evSaifxoveararov rov 
ovros, o Set avrrjv Travrl rpoTTCp IheZv. 'Opdojs, e(f>rj, 
Xeyeis. Ovkovv et p,ev ovaiav dvayKdt,eL Oedaaadai, 
TTpoarjKei, et Se yiveaiv, ov Trpoa-qKet. Oa/zer ye 
527 St^. Ov roivvv rovro ye, 'qv 8' iyco, dfX(f)iaPr)T'iq- 
Govaiv r]p,Zv, oaoi /cat apuKpd yecojxerpias efineipoi, 
OTi avrrj rj eTTLarrjpLrj rrdv TovvavTLOV e^et Tot? ev 
avrfj Xoyois Xeyofievois vtto rtbv fjL€rax€ipit,op,€V<jDV . 



" This was Xenophon's view, Mem. vi. 7. 2. Whether it 
was Socrates' nobody knows. Cf. supra pp. 162-163 on 525 c, 
Epin. 977 E, Aristoph. Clouds 202. 

* Because it develops the power of abstract thought. Not 
because numbers are deduced from the idea of good. Cf. 
on 525, p. 162, note b. 

' Cf. 518 c. Once more we should remember that for the 
practical and educational application of Plato's main thought 
this and all similar expressions are rhetorical surplusage or 
" unction," which should not be pressed, nor used e.g. to 
identify the idea of good with God. Cf. Introd. p. xxv. 

" Or " becoming." Cf. 485 b, 525 b. 

* ye Si] is frequent in confirming answers. Cf. 557 b, 517 c, 
Symp. 172 c, 173 e, Gorg. 4.49 b, etc. 

168 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

of strong places and the bringing of troops into 
column and line and all the other formations of an 
army in actual battle and on the march, an officer 
who had studied geometry would be a very different 
person from what he would be if he had not." " But 
still," I said, " for such purposes a slight modicum" of 
geometry and calculation would suffice. \Miat we 
have to consider is whether the greater and more 
advanced part of it tends to facilitate the apprehen- 
sion of the idea of good.** That tendency, we affirm, 
is to be found in all studies that force the soul to turn 
its vision round to the region where dwells the most 
blessed part of reality,*^ which it is imperative that it 
should behold." " You are right," he said. " Then 
if it compels the soul to contemplate essence, it is 
suitable ; if genesis,** it is not." " So we affirm.* " 
" This at least," said I, " will not be disputed by those 
who have even a slight acquaintance with geometry, 
that this science is in direct contradiction with the 
language employed in it by its adepts.^ " " How so ? " 

^ Geometry (and mathematics) is inevitably less abstract 
than dialectics. But the special purpose of the Platonic educa- 
tion values mathematics chiefly as a discipline in abstraction. 
Cf. on 523 A, p. 152, note 6; and Titchener, A BeghiiKr^s 
Psychology, pp. 2Q5-2QQ : " There are probably a good many 
of us whose abstract idea of ' triangle ' Is simply a mental 
picture of the little equilateral triangle that stands for the 
word in text-books of geometry." There have been some 
attempts to prove (that of Mr. F. M. Cornford in Mind, 
April 1932, is the most recent) that Plato, if he could not 
anticipate in detail the modern reduction of mathematics 
to logic, did postulate something like it as an ideal, the 
realization of which would abolish his own sharp distinction 
between mathematics and dialectic. The argument rests 
on a remote and strained interpretation of two or three texts 
of the Republic (cf. e.g. 511 and 533 b-d) which, naturally 
interpreted, merely affirm the general inferiority of the 

169 



PLATO 

Hois'; ^</>Tl- Aeyovat, fxdv vov fxdXa yeAoioj? 
re Kai, dvayKaicog' cvs yap TTpdrTovres re /cat 
TTpd^eojs €V€Ka TrdvTag rovs Xoyovs TTotovjjievoi, 
XeyovcTL TcrpaycovL^eLV re Kal TrapareiveLV Kal 
TTpoariOevai Kal Trdvra ovrco (jideyyopievof to S' 
B eart ttov irdv to fid9r][j.a yvcoaecog eVe/ca ctti- 
T-qSevofievov. UavTdTraaL p,kv ovv, ecfiT]. Ovkovv 
TOVTO €TL SioiJioXoyrjTdov ; To ttoIov; 'Qs tov del 
ovTOs yvwcrecos, aXX ov tov ttotc tl yiyvop,ivov 
Kat aTToXXvfievov. Kvop,oX6y7]TOV, e(f)r)- tov yap 
ael ovTog rj yeoifieTptKrj yvcbais ioTiv. *0Xk6v 
apa, (L yevvate, ^v)(T]g rrpos dX-^det-av etrj dv Kal 



mathematical method and the intermediate position for 
education of mathematics as a propaedeutic to dialectics. 
Plato's purpose throughout is not to exhort mathematicians 
as such to question their initiatory postulates, but to mark 
definitely the boundaries between the mathematical and 
other sciences and pure dialectics or philosophy. The dis- 
tinction is a true and useful one to-day. Aristotle often 
refers to it with no hint that it could not be abolished by a 
new and different kind of mathematics. And it is uncritical 
to read that intention into Plato's words. He may have con- 
tributed, and doubtless did contribute, in other ways to the 
improvement and precision of mathematical logic. But he 
had no idea of doing away with the fundamental difference 
that made dialectics and not mathematics the coping- 
stone of the higher education — science as such does not 
question its first principles and dialectic does. Cf. 533 b- 
534 E. 

" The very etymology of " geometry " implies the absurd 
practical conception of the science. Cf. Epin. 990 c yeXowv 
6vofj.a. 

" Cf. Polit. 302 E, Laws 757 e, 818 b, Phileb. 62 b, Tim. 
69 D, and also on 494 a. The word dvayKaio)s has been 
variously misunderstood and mistranslated. It simply 
means that geometers are compelled to use the language 

170 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

he said. " Their language is most ludicrous," though 
they cannot help it,** for they speak as if they were 
doing something " and as if all their words were 
directed towards action. For all their talk** is of 
'squaring and applying* and adding and the like/ 
whereas in fact the real object of the entire study is 
pure knowledge .3 " "That is absolutely true," he said. 
" And must we not agree on a further point ? " 
" WTiat .'* " " That it is the knowledge of that which 
always is,* and not of a something which at some time 
comes into being and passes away." " That is readily 
admitted," he said, " for geometn,- is the knowledge 
of the eternally existent." " Then, my good friend, 
it would tend to draw the soul to truth, and would be 

of sense perception though they are thinking of abstractions 
(ideas) of which sense images are only approximations. 

* Cf. Aristot. 2ilet. 1051 a 22 evpL(TK€Tai 8i Kai to. Siaypdfi- 
fjLara eyepyeig.- Siaipovi'Tf^ yap evpldKovaiv, " geometrical con- 
structions, too, are discovered by an actualization, because it 
is by dividing that we discover them." (Loeb tr.) 

* For (t)d tyy 6 fjLf VOL cf. on 505 c, p. 89, note g. 

* Cf. Thompson on Meno 87 a. 

' E. Hoffmann, Der gegenicdrtige Stand d^r Platonfor- 
schung, p. 1097 (Anhang, Zeller, Plato, 5th ed.), misunder- 
stands the passage when he says : " Die Abneigung Platons, 
dem Ideellen irgendwie einen dynamischen Charakter zuzu- 
schreiben, zeigt sich sogar in terminologischen Andeutungen ; 
so verbietet er Rfpuhl. 527 a fur die Mathematik jede 
Anwendung dynamLscher Termini wie TeTpayufi^eiv, irapa- 
reivfiv, irpoaTidivai." Plato does not forbid the use of such 
terms but merely recognizes their inadequacy to express the 
true nature and purpose of geometry. 

» Cf. Meyerson, De Vexplication dans les sciences, p. 33: 
" En effet, Platon deja fait ressortir que la gdometrie, en 
depit de I'apparence, ne poursuit aucun but pratique et n'a 
tout entiere d'autre objet que la connaissance." 

* i.e. mathematical ideas are (Platonic) ideas like other 
concepts. Cf. on 525 d, p. 164, note a. 

171 



PLATO 

aTTepyaariKov <f)i\oa6(j)ov Siavoias rrpos to dvco 
ax^iv a vvv kolto) ov hiov e;fo/xev. 'Q.s olov re 
C ftaAtara, e^ry. 'Q? olov t' apa, rjv 8' eyco, p,d- 
Xiara TrpoaraKTeov ottcos ol iv rfj /caAAtTidAet crot 
fxrjoevi rpoTTCp yecDixerpias d<j)€^ovTat. Kal yap rd 
vapepya avrov ov apuLKpa. rTota; rj 8' 6'?. "A 

T€ 8r] (TV €ITT€S, TjV 8' €yO) , TO. TTepl TOV TToXepiOV, 

Kal 8r] Kal npos Trdaas piad-qaeis, axTre /caAAtoi^ 
aTTO^exeadat, Xap.€v ttov on rat oXco Kal Travrl 
StOLaeL rjppevos re yeajpLerptas Kal p,rj. To) navrl 
pievToi VT) At", ^<f>T]' Aevrepov 8rj rovro ridcbpiev 
piddrjpLa Tols veoLs; TidcopLev, €(f>r]. 
D X. Tt Sat; Tpirov Qcbp,ev dorpovopLcav ; tj ov 
Sok€l; "E^oty' ovv, e<f>rj- to yap Trepl a)pas ev- 
at,a9r]TOT€pa)s ex^tv Kal p,rjvcov Kal ivtavrcov ov 
fjLoi'ov yecopyia ovhe vavTiXia TrpocrqKei, oAAo. /cat 
OTparrjyia ovx rjTTOv. 'HSy? et, riv 8' lyo), otl 
eoLKag SeStdrt tovs ttoXXovs, pirj Boktjs dxpxjCTTa 
piadrjpiaTa irpoaTdrTeiv. to 8' eoTiv ov Trdvv 
<f>avXov aXXd ;!^aAe7rdv TTLCJTevaai, OTi iv tovtols 
Tot? pLad'qpLaaiv eKdoTov opyavov rt, ifjvx'fjs CKKad- 

° KaWiiroXei : Plato smiles at his own Utopia. There were 
cities named Callipolis, e.ff. in the Thracian Chersonese and 
in Calabria on the Gulf of Tarentum. Cf. also Herod, vii. 154. 
Fanciful is the attempt of some scholars to distinguish the 
Callipolis as a separate section of the Republic, or to take it 
as the title of the i2<>/)?<6//c. 

* Plato briefly anticipates much modern literature on the 
value of the study of mathematics, Cf. on 526 b, p. 166, note 
a. Olympiodorus says that when geometry deigns to enter 
into matter she creates mechanics which is highly esteemed. 

172 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

productive of a philosophic attitude of mind, direct- 
ing upward the faculties that now wTongly are turned 
earthward." " Nothing is surer," he said. " Then 
nothing is surer," said I, " than that we must require 
that the men of your Fair City " shall never neglect 
geometry, for even the by-products of such study are 
not slight." " What are they .'' " said he. " What 
you mentioned," said I, " its uses in war, and also we 
are aware that for the better reception of all studies '' 
there will be an immeasurable ' difference between 
the student who has been imbued with geometrj' and 
the one who has not." " Inunense indeed, by Zeus," 
he said. " Shall we, then, lay this down as a second 
branch of study for our lads ? " " Let us do so," he 
said. 

X. " Shall we set down astronomy as a third, or 
do you dissent?" "I certainly agree," he said; 
" for quickness of perception about the seasons and 
the courses of the months and the years isser\iceable,'' 
not only to agriculture and na\igation, but still more 
to the military art." " I am amused,* " said I, " at 
your apparent fear lest the multitude ^ may suppose 
you to be recommending useless studies. ^ It is indeed 
no trifling task, but very difficult to realize that there 
is in every soul an organ or instrument of knowledge 
that is purified'' and kindled afresh by such studies 

* For oXu] Kai iravri cf. 469 c, Laws 779 b, 734 e, Phaedo 79 e, 
Crat. 434 a. 

* Xen. Mem. iv. 7. 3 ff. attributes to Socrates a similar 
purelv utilitarian view of science. 

* For ^5ij 61 cf. 337 d, Euthydem. 300 a, Gorg. 491 e 
^lare. Rep. 348 c yXi/zcis el, Hipp. Maj. 288 b. 

* Cf. on 499 D-E, p. 66, note a. 

' Again Plato anticipates much modern controversy, 

* Cf. Xen. Symp. 1. 4 ^KKfKadap/iivois tAs yf/vx^^^ and Phaedo 
67B-C. 

173 



PLATO 

E aiperai, re Kal dvat,o)7Tvp€lTai, dnoXAvfievov /cat tv- 
<pAov[xevov VTTO rcov dX^.cov i7TLrT]h€V[xdra)v , KpfEtrrov 
bv acodijvai ixvpicov 6p.pidTCOv fiovqj yap avrd> 

f aXijOeia opdrai. ols fM€v ovu ravra ^vvSoKeX, 
apLr))^avu)s ca? ev So^et? Xeyeiv dcroi Se rovrov p,rj- 
oaixfj fjadrjixevoi elaiv, eiKorcos rjyrjaovrai ere Xeyetv 
ouSev (xAAt^j' yap dn* avrdjv ovx opdJaiv d^iav 
Aoyov (h(f)eX€iav . crKorrei ovv avrodev, rrpos ttotc- 

528 /SOUS' StaAeyet, t] ov irpos ovSerepovs , dXXd aavrov 
€V€Ka TO p,4yi(TTOv TToieZ Tovs Xoyovs, <f)dovois p-yjv 
ouS' dv dXXo), et tls tl Swairo (Xtt' avrdJv ovaadai. 
OvTOJS, ^<j>'Tf], alpovpLai, ifxavTov eveKa to TrXelaTOV 
Xeyeiv re /cat epojTav /cat dTTOKpiveadaL. "Avaye 
TOLWV, 7]V 8 eyo), et? TOVTnaw vvu 8rj yap ovK 
dpdcos TO i^rjs eXd^ofxev ttj yew/xerpt'a. Uojs 
Xa^ovTes; €(f)r]. Mera iTTtTreSov, -^v 8' iyco, iv 
7r€pi(f>opa 6V tJSt] oTepeov Xa^ovTes, Trplv avTO Ka9* 
B avTO Xa^elv 6p9d)s Se e')(ei ^i'>]S jxeTa oevTepav 
av^riv TpiTrjv Xap^^dveiv . ecrrt 8e ttov tovto Trepl 
Tr]V TU)V Kv^cov au^ryv /cat to ^ddovs iJieT€)(ov. 
"EffTt ydp, e(f)r]' oAAd raura ye, o) JlcoKpaTes, 

° Another instance of Plato's " unction." Cf. Tim. 47 a-b, 
Eurip. Orest. 806 fivpiiav Kpelcrauv, and Stallbaum ad loc, 
for imitations of this passage in antiquity. 

'' For afj-rixa-vus ws cf. C/iarm. 155 d aixTjxo-vbv ti oTov. 
Cf. 588 A, Phaedo 80 c, Q5 c. Laws 782 a, also Bep. 331 a 
OavixdaTw ws, Hipp. Maj. 282 c, Epin. 982 g-d, Aristoph. 
Birds 427, Ijysist. 198, 1148. 

" This is the thought more technically expressed in the 
"earlier" work, Crito 49 d. Despite his faith in dialectics 

174. 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

when it has been destroyed and blinded by our 
ordinary pursuits, a faculty whose preservation out- 
weighs ten thousand eyes " ; for by it only is reahty 
beheld. Those who share this faith will think your 
words superlatively ^ true. But those who have and 
have had no inkling of it will naturally think them I 
all moonshine.'' For they can see no other benefit ' 
from such pursuits worth mentioning. Decide, then, 
on the spot, to which party you address yourself. Or 
are you speaking to neither, but chiefly carrying on 
the discussion for your own sake,** without however 
grudging any other who may be able to profit by it ? " 
" This is the alternative I choose," he said, " that it is 
for my own sake chiefly that I speak and ask questions 
and reply." " Fall back* a little, then," said I ; "for 
we just now did not rightly select the study that 
comes next ^ after geometry." " WTiat was our mis- 
take ? " hesaid. " After plane surfaces," said I," we 
went on to sohds in revolution before studying them 
in themselves. The right way is next in order after the 
second dimension' to take the third. This, I suppose, 
is the dimension of cubes and of everything that has 
depth." " Why, yes, it is," he said ; " but this sub- 
ject, Socrates, does not appear to have been investi- 

Plato recognizes that the primary assumptions on which 
argument necessarily proceeds are irreducible choices of 
personality. C/. What Plato Said, p. 468, Class. Phil. ix. 
(1914) p. 352. 

" Cf. Charm. 166 d, Phaedo 64 c. Soph. 265 a, Apol. 33 a. 

* &yayf is a military term. Cf. Aristoph. Birds 383, Xen. 
Cyr. vii. 1. 45, iii. 3. 69. 

' i^fjs: cf. Laches 182 b. 

' Lit. "increase." Cf. Pearson, The Grammar of Science, 
p. 411 : " He proceeds from curves of frequency to surfaces 
of frequency, and then requiring to go beyond these he finds 
his problem lands him in space of many dimensions." 

175 



PLATO 

SoK€l OV7TCO evprjadai. Aitto, yap, '^v S' iyco, ra 
aiTta* OTL re ovhe^iia ttoXls ivTifXWs avra ^x^t, 
dadevaJs ^r]reLTai p^aAe77a ovra, eTTiardrov re 
Beovrai ol ^r^rovvres, dvev ov ovk dv evpoiev, 
ov TTpu)TOv fxev yeviadai ^(^aXeTTov, eTretra Kat yevo- 
fievov, (Ls vvv ep^ei, ovk dv 7T€l9olvto ol Trepi ravra 
ll,r)rrjTLKol p.eya\o^povovp.evoi. el be ttoXis oXrj 
^vveTTiaraToi evrijxois dyovcra avrd, ovroi re dv 
TTeidoiVTO /cat ^vvex^Js re dv Kat ivrovcos ^rjrovfieva 
eK(f)av7J yevoLTO onr} e;^et' CTret Kai vvv vtto tcov 
TToXXcov dTL{xat,6ixeva i<al KoXovopieva} vtto^ tcov 
^-qrovvrcov, Xoyov ovk exovTcov Kad* o ri jj^pi^at/Lia, 
opLcos vpos aTTavra ravra ^ta vtto )(dpLros av^d- 

^ Ko\ov6fi€va AD, KuAvSjueva F. 
* virb Madvig: i;7r6 5^ mss, 

" This is not to be pressed. Plato means only that the 
progress of solid geometry is unsatisfactory. Cf. 528 d. 
There may or may not be a reference here to the " Delian 
problem " of the duplication of the cube (cf. Wilamowitz, 
Platon, i. p. 503 for the story) and other specific problems which 
the historians of mathematics discuss in connexion with this 
passage. Cf. Adam ad loc. To understand Plato we need 
only remember that the extension of geometry to solids was 
being worked out in his day, perhaps partly at his sugges- 
tion, e.ff. by Theaetetus for whom a Platonic dialogue is 
named, and that Plato makes use of the discovery of the five 
regular solids in his theory of the elements in the Timaeus. 
Cf. also Laws 8 1 9 e If . For those who wish to know more of 
the ancient traditions and modern conjectures I add refer- 
ences : Eva Sachs, De Theaeteto Ath. Mathematico, Diss. 
Berlin, 1914, and Die funf platonischen Kurper (Philolog. 
Untersuch. Heft 24), Berlin, 1917; E. Hoppe, Mathematik 
und Astronomie im klass. Altertum, pp. 133 ff . ; Rudolf 
Ebeling, Mathematik und Philosophie bei Plato, Miinden, 
1909, with my review in Glass. Phil. v. (1910) p. 115; Seth 

176 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

gated yet." " " There are two causes of that," said I : 
" first, inasmuch as no city holds them in honour, 
these inquiries are languidly pursued owing to their 
difficulty. And secondly, the investigators need a 
director,* who is indispensable for success and who, to 
begin with, is not easy to find, and then, if he could 
be found, as things are now, seekers in this field 
would be too arrogant" to submit to his guidance. But 
if the state as a whole should join in superintending 
these studies and honour them, these specialists 
would accept advice, and continuous and strenuous 
investigation would bring out the truth. Since even 
now, lightly esteemed as they are by the multitude 
and hampered by the ignorance of their students <* as 
to the true reasons for pursuing them,* they neverthe- 
less in the face of all these obstacles force their way 
by their inherent charm ^ and it would not surprise us 

Demel, Platans Verhdltnis zur Mathematilc, Leipzig, with 
my review. Class. Phil. xxiv. (1929) pp. 312-31.S; and, for 
further bibliography on Plato and mathematics, Bude, Rep. 
Introd. pp. bix-lxxi. 

'' Plato is perhaps speaking from personal experience as 
director of the Academy. Cf. the hint in Euthydem. 290 c. 

* i.e. the mathematicians already feel themselves to be in- 
dependent specialists. 

■* This interpretation is, I think, correct. For the con- 
struction of this sentence cf. Isoc. xv. 84. The text is 
disputed ; see crit. note. 

• Lit. " in what respect they are useful." Plato is 
fond of the half legal kolB' o ti. Cf. Lysis 210 c, PoUt, 
298 c. 

' An eminent modern psychologist innocently writes: " The 
problem of why geometry gives pleasure is therefore a deeper 
problem than the mere assertion of the fact. Furthermore, 
there are many known case^ where the study of geometry 
does not give pleasure to the student." Adam seems to 
think it may refer to the personality of Eudoxus. 

VOL. II N 177 



PLATO 

D verai, /cat ovBev davfiaarov aurd (f)avrjvai. Kat 
fMCV S-q, €(f>r], TO ye eTrt^apt Kal hta<f)€p6vTCos e^et. 
oAAct fjLOL aa(f)earepov etTre a vw 817 eXeyeg. ttjv fxev 
yap TTOV Tov iTnrreSov vrpay/xareiav' yecofxerp^av 
irldeis. Nat, ■^v S' eyco. Etra y', et^"*;, to yxev 
TTpcoTov darpovofiLav fiera ravrr^v, varepov 8 av- 
excoprjcrag. HvevBojv yap, €(f)T]v, raxv Travra 8t- 
€^eXdeiv pLoiXXov ^paSvvco- iirjs yap ovaav ttjv 
^dOovs av^rjs puedoSov, on rfj t,rjTrjaet yeXolcos 
€X€i, VTrep^ds avTTjv pberd yeojpLerpiav darpovopLiav 

E eXcyov, <f)opdi> ovaav ^dOovs. ^Opdcos, e^''7, Xeyeis. 
Teraprov roivvv, rjv 8' eyoj, TtdcJopLev piddr]p,a 
darpovopLLav, cos VTrapxovcrrjs ttjs vvv vapaXei- 
7Topi€vrj9, idv avrrjv ttoXis p-eTLrj. Et/co?, -q S os' 
/cat o ye vvv 87^ p,oL, c5 HwKpares, eTreTrX'q^as rrepl 
darpovopLLas cu? (f)opTi,Kcbs iTraivovvri, vvv fj av 
529 pierepX'^i' eiraLvCo. ttovtI ydp /zot 8o/c€t 8'^Aov, ort 



" vpayndTdav : interesting is the development of this 
word from its use in Phaedo 63 a (" interest," " zeal," 
" inquiring spirit." Cf. 64 e, 67 b) to the later meaning, 
" treatise." Cf. Aristot. Top. 100 a 18, Eth. Nic. 1103 b 26, 
Polyb. i. 1. 4, etc 

'' An obvious allusion to the proverb found in many forms 
in many languages. Cf. also Polit. 277 a-b, 264 b, Soph. 
Antig. 231 ax°^V raxvs, Theognis 335, 401 ix-rjdev a^ov 
(TtrevSeiv, Suetonius, Augustus 25, Aulus Gellius x. 11. 5, 
Macrob. Sat. vi. 8. 9, " festina lente," " hatez-vous 
lentement" (Boileau, Art poetique, i. 171), "Chi va piano 
va sano e va lontano" (Goldoni, / volponi, i. ii.), " Eile 
mit Weile" and similar expressions; Franklin's "Great 
haste makes great waste," etc. 

178 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

if the truth about them were made apparent. " " It is 
true," he said, " that they do possess an extraordinary 
attractiveness and charm. But explain more clearly 
what you were just speaking of. The investigation" of 
plane surfaces, I presume, you took to be geometry ?" 
" Yes," said I. " And then," he said, " at first you 
took astronomy next and then you drew back." 
" Yes," I said, " for in my haste to be done I was mak- 
ing less speed.* For, while the next thing in order is 
the study <^ of the third dimension or solids, I passed it 
over because of our absurd neglect"* to investigate it, 
and mentionednext after geometry astronomy,* which 
deals with the movements of soUds." " That is right," 
he said. " Then, as our fourth study," said I, " let us 
set down astronomy, assuming that this science, the 
discussion of which has been passed over, is available,-^ 
provided, that is, that the state pursues it." " That 
is likely," said he ; " and instead of the vulgar 
utiUtarian^ commendation of astronomy, for which 
you just now rebuked me, Socrates, I now will praise 
it on your principles. For it is ob\-ious to everybody, 

' fUdoSov : this word, like Tpayixareia, came to mean 
"treatise." 

•* This is the meaning. Neither Stallbaura's explanation, 
" quia ita est comparata, ut de ea quaerere ridiculum sit," 
nor that accepted by Adam, "quia ridicule tractatur," is 
correct, and 539 e and 527 a are not in point. Cf. 52S b, 
p. 176, note a. 

' Cf. Laws S22 a ff. 

' i.e. " assuming this to exist," "vorhanden sein," which 
is the usual meaning of vwapxei-v in classical Greek. The 
science, of course, is solid geometry, which is still un- 
developed, but in Plato's state will be constituted as a 
regular science through endowed research. 

» Cf. Vol. I. p. 410, note c, on 442 e, Gorg. 482 e. Rep. 367 
A, 581 D, Cratyl. 400 a, Apol. 32 a, Aristot. Pol. 1333 b 9. 

179 



PLATO 

avrq ye avay/fa^et ilfvxrjv els to dvco opdv /cat oltto 
Twv evdevhe eKeZae ayet. "Icro;?, rjv 8' eyd), Travri 
SrjXov ttXtjv eiioi- ifjiol yap ov So/cet ovtws. 'AAAa 
TTios; €(f>'r]' '^S fiev vvv avrrjv jMerap^etpt^ovTat 
OL eis <f)LAoao(^Lav avdyovres, ttovv iroieZv koltco 
pXeireiv. IlcD?, e^ry, Xeyeig; Ovk dyevvaJs fioi 
SoKels, rjv S' eyd), ttjv irepl rd dvco fxdOrjaiv Xafi- 
]3 ^dveiv TTapd aavTO) ij ecrrf KivSvveveis ydp, Kai 
€L Tis ev opo(f>fj TTOiKiX^aTa ded)jxevos dvaKVTrrcov 
KarajxavOdvoL tl, r^yeZaOai dv avTOV voiqaei dXX 
OVK opLpLaat decopetv. lgcds ovv KaXd)s rjyeZ, eyd) 
o evTjdiKdos. eyd) ydp av ov SvvajxaL dXXo tl 
vopnaai dvco ttolovv i/fvxrjv ^Xeneiv fiddrjixa t] 
eKeZvo o dv rrepl to ov re 17 /cat to dopaTov idv 

" Cf. my review of Warburg, Class. Phil. xxiv. (1929) p. 
319. The dramatic misunderstanding forestalls a possible 
imderstanding by the reader. Cf. supra on 533 b. The 
misapprehension is typical of modern misunderstandings. 
Glaucon is here the prototype of all sentimental Platonists 
or anti-Platonists. The meaning of " higher " things in 
Plato's allegory is obvious. But Glaucon takes it literally. 
Similarly, modern critics, taking Plato's imagery literally 
and pressing single expressions apart from the total context, 
have inferred that Plato would be hostile to all the applica- 
tions of modern science to experience. They refuse to make 
allowance for his special and avowed educational purpose, 
and overlook the fact that he is prophesying the mathe- 
matical astronomy and science of the future. The half-serious 
exaggeration of his rhetoric can easily be matched by similar 
utterances of modern thinkers of the most various schools, 
from Rousseau's "ecarter tons les fa its " to Judd's "Once 
we acquire the power to neglect all the concrete facts . . . 
we are free from the incumbrances that come through atten- 
tion to the concrete facts." Cf. also on 529 b, 530 b and 
534 A. 

"* dvdyoi'Tes is tinged with the suggestions at supra 517 a, but 
180 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

I think, that this study certainly compels the soul to 
look upAvard " and leads it away from things here to 
those higher things." " It may be obvious to every- 
body except me," said I, " for I do not think so." 
" WTiat do you think ? " he said. "As it is now handled 
by those who are trying to lead us up to philosophy,'' 
I think that it turns the soul's gaze very much down- 
ward." " \\Tiat do you mean ? " he said. " You seem 
to me in your thought to put a most hberal '' interpre- 
tation on the ' study of higher things,' " I said, " for 
apparently if anyone with back-throA\Ti head should 
learn something by staring at decorations on a ceil- 
ing, you would regard him as contemplating them with 
the higher reason and not with the eyes.** Perhaps you 
are right and I am a simpleton. For I, for my part, 
am unable to suppose that any other study turns the 
soul's gaze upward * than that which deals -with being 

the meaning here is those who use astronomy as a part 
of the higher education. <pi\o<ro(f>ia is used in the looser 
sense of Isocrates. Cf. A.J.P. xvi. p. 237. 

•^ For ovK a.-/€vvCis cf. Gorg. 462 d, where it is ironical, as 
here, Phaedr. 264 b, Euthyph. 2 c, Theaet. 184 c. In Charm. 
158 c it is not ironical. 

"* The humorous exaggeration of the language reflects 
Plato's exasperation at the sentimentalists who prefer star- 
gazing to mathematical science. Cf. Tim. 91 d on the 
evolution of birds from innocents who supposed that sight 
furnished the surest proof in such matters. Cf. ^^'aIt 
^^^litman : 

When I heard the learned astronomer . . . 
Rising and gliding out I wander'd off by myself 
In the mystical moist night air, and from time to time 
Look'd up in perfect silence at the stars. 
Yet such is the irony of misinterpretation that this and the 
following pages are the chief support of the charge that Plato 
is hostile to science. Cf. on 530 b, p. 187, note c. 
* Cf. Theaet. 174 a avu fiXiirovTa, 

181 



PLATO 

[> 8e Tig dv(x} KexT^voJS •^ kolto} avfifxefxvKcbs roJv 

ataOr^Tcbv eTTLX^Lpfj ri fxavddveiv, ovre fiadeZv av 

TTore <j)T]iii avrov — iTTiar-qfirjv yap ouSev e^^iv 

I Tcov roiovTcov — ovT€ dvoj dXXd /caret) avTov 

C pXeTTeiv TTjv ifivx'^v, Kav i^ virrias vitov ev yfj -q 

€v daXdrTT) fjLavddvT]. 

XI. AtK-qv, e(f)r), ^xoi' opdoJs yap fiOL iTreTrXrj^as. 
aAAd TTto? St) eXeyes Secv darpovopiiav fxavOdveLV 
TTapa a vvv [xavddvovaLV, el [xeXXoiev dx^eXipiOis 
TTpos a Xeyopiev piad-qaeadai ; ^^§e, -qv S' iyw. 
ravra piev ra ev ra> ovpavo) TTOtKiXpLaTa, eTretVep 
ev oparcp TreTTOt/ciATat, /caAAtara p,€v 'qyetadai Kal 
D aKpL^earara tojv tolovtojv e^^iv, tcov Se dX-rjOivaJv 
TToXi) ivSetv, as to ov rdxos Kal rj ovaa ^paSvrrjg 



» Cf. Aristoph. Clouds 112. 

" avjiifivix) probably refers to the eyes. But cf. Adam ad loc. 

' Cf. Phaedr. 264, a, and Adam in Class. Rev. xiii. p. 11. 

'' Or rather, "serves me right," or, in the American 
language, "I've got what's coming to me." The expres- 
sion is colloquial. Cf. Epist. iii. 319 e, Antiphon cxxiv. 45. 
But SiK7)v ^x^L in 520 b = " it is just." 

' Cf. Tim. 40 A KOfffiov a\i]divbv avT<fi treiroLKiKiJ.ivov, Eurip. 
Hel. 1096 darepuv iroiKiXp-aTa, Critias, Sisyphus, Diels ii.' p. 
321, lines 33-34: 

t6 t' MTepojTrbv ovpavoO d^fias 
Xp6vov KoXbv irolKiXfxa t^ktovo^ <TO(pov. 

Cf. also Gorff. 508 a, Lucretius v. 1205 "stellls micanti- 
bus aethera fixum," ii. 1031 ff., Aeneid iv. 482 "stellis 
ardentibus aptum," vi. 797, xi. 202, Ennius, Ann. 372, 
Shakes. Hamlet ii. ii. 313 "This majestical roof fretted with 
golden fire," Arthur Hugh Clough, Uranus: 

Then Plato in me said, 
'Tis but the figured ceiling overhead 
With cunning diagrams bestarred . . . 
Mind not the stars, mind thou thy mind and God 
182 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

and the iii\isible. But if anyone tries to learn about 
the things of sense, whether gaping up" or blinking 
doi^Ti,* I would never say that he really learns — for 
nothing of the kind admits of true knowledge — nor 
would I say that his soul looks up, but down, even 
though he study floating on his back <" on sea or land." 
XI. "A fair retort,**" he said; "your rebuke is 
deserved. But how, then, did you mean that astronomy 
ought to be taught contrary to the present fashion if 
it is to be learned in a way to conduce to our purpose?" 
"Thus," said I: " these sparks that paint the sky,' 
since they are decorations on a visible surface, we 
must regard, to be sure, as the fairest and most exact 
of material things ; but we must recognize that they 
fall far short of the truth,-' the movements, namely, of 

The word roiKiXfiara may further suggest here the com- 
plication of the movements in the heavens. 

' The meaning of this sentence is certain, but the expres- 
sion will no more bear a matter-of-fact logical analysis than 
that of Phafdo 69 a-b, or Rep. 365 c, or many other subtle 
passages in Plato. No material object perfectly embodies 
the ideal and abstract mathematical relation. These mathe- 
matical ideas are designated as the true, d\r]6iyQv, and the 
real, 6v. As in the Timaeus (38 c, 40 a-b, 36 d-e) the 
abstract and ideal has the primacy and by a reversal of the 
ordinary point of view is said to contain or convey the 
concrete. The visible stars are in and are carried by their 
invisible mathematical orbits. By this way of speaking 
Plato, it is true, disregards the apparent difficulty that the 
movement of the visible stars then ought to be mathemati- 
cally perfect. But this interpretation is, I think, more 
probable for Plato than Adam's attempt to secure rigid con- 
sistency by taking to bv rdxoj etc., to represent invisible and 
ideal planets, and to. tvovra. to be the perfect mathematical 
realities, which are in them, ivbvra would hardly retain the 
metaphysical meaning of 6uTa. For the interpretation of 
529 D cf. also my " Platonism and the History of Science," 
Am. Philot. Soc. Proc. Ixvi. p. 172. 

183 



PLATO 

ev rw aXrjdivcp dpidfia) Kal jraai roZs aX'qdeai crxV' 
fiaai ^opds re npos dXX-qXa (f)€perat /cat rd evovra 
(f)€p€f d Srj Xoycp /xev Kal hiavola XrjTrrd, oipet 8' 
ov' 7] arv o'Ui; OuSa/xcD?, c^t;. Ovkovv, cIttov, rfj 
TTept rov ovpavov ttolkiXlo. Trapaheiypiaai )(prjcrTeov 
Ti]s TTpos eKelva [xad-^aecos eVe/ca, ojjlolojs MOirep 
E dv eX Tts ivTvxoL vtto AaiSaAou t] tcvos dXXov 
S-q/jLiovpyov 7) ypa^iois hiacfiepovTCvs yeypajjifievoLs 
Kai eKTTeTTOvrjfievois SLaypdfxpLaatv. rjyqaatro ydp 
dv TTOV Tis epLTTeipos yeoj/xerpias-, lhd}v rd roiavra, 
KaAAiCTxa p,kv exeiv dTrepyaaia, yeXoZov jxtjv 6771- 
aKonetv avra aTTOvSfj, d)s ttjv dXr'jOeLav iv avrols 
530 Xrji/joiJievov icrcov t] hiTrXaaiojv r) dXXt)^ tlvos 
avp-p^erpias. Tt S ov piiXXei yeXolov elvai; e(f)r). 
To) ovTL Srj darpovofxiKov, rjv 8' eyd), ovra ovk 
o'tet ravrov TretaeadaL els rds tcov darpcov <l)Opds 
dTTO^XeTTOvra ; vopbielv jxev, ws olov re KdXXiara 
rd roiavra epya avar-qcraadai, ovroj ^vveardvat 
rep rov ovpavov Sr^jxiovpya) avrov re Kal rd iv 
avrtp' rrjv 8e vvKros Trpos -qp.epav ^vp,p,erpiav Kal 
rovrcov rrpos [xrjva Kal pLTjvos rrpos eviavrov Kal 
B r(x)v dXXcov darpcov Trpos re ravra Kal irpds 
dXXrjXa, OVK drorrov, oiei, rjy-^aerat rov vopLit,ovra 
yiyveadai re ravra del cbaavrojs Kal ov8ap,fj ov8ev 
TTapaXXdrretv , crcofid re evovra Kal 6pa)p,eva, Kal 

° 8r]fjLiovpy(^ : an anticipation of the Timaeus. 

* Cf. Bruno apud Hoffding, History of Modern Philosophy, 
i. 125 and 128, and Galileo, ibid. i. 178; also Lucretius v. 
302-305. 

" Plato was right against the view that Aristotle imposed 
on the world for centuries. We should not therefore say 
with Adam that he would have attached little significance 
to the perturbations of Neptune and the consequent discovery 
184. 



I 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

real speed and real slowness in true number and in 
all true figures both in relation to one another and 
as vehicles of the things they carry and contain. 
These can be apprehended only by reason and thought, 
but not by sight ; or do you think otherwise ? " "By 
no means," he said. " Then," said I, " we must 
use the blazonry of the heavens as patterns to aid 
in the study of those reaUties, just as one would do 
who chanced upon diagrams drawn with special care 
and elaboration by Daedalus or some other craftsman 
or painter. For anyone acquainted ^vith geometry 
who saw such designs would admit the beauty of the 
workmanship, but would think it absurd to examine 
them seriously in the expectation of finding in them 
the absolute truth with regard to equals or doubles 
or any other ratio." " How could it be other- 
wise than absurd.'' " he said. " Do you not think," 
said I, " that one who was an astronomer in very truth 
would feel in the same way when he turned his eyes 
upon the movements of the stars ? He will be willing 
to concede that the artisan" of heaven fashioned it and 
all that it contains in the best possible manner for 
such a fabric ; but when it comes to the proportions 
of day and night, and of their relation to the month, 
and that of the month to the year, and of the other 
stars to these and one another, do you not suppose 
that he will regard as a very strange fellow the man 
who believes that these things go on for ever without 
change * or the least deviation *' — though they possess 

of Uranus. It is to Plato that tradition attributes the problem 
of accounting by the simplest hypothesis for the movement of 
the heavenly bodies and "saving the phenomena." 

The alleged contradiction between this and iaw* 821 b if. and 
Tim. 47 A is due to a misapprehension. That the stars in their 
movements do not perfectly express the exactness of mathe- 

185 



PLATO 

t,r)T€lv iravrl rpo-nco ttjv aXj^deiav avTOJv Xa^elv; 

E/^ot yovv 8oK€L, €(f>r), aov vvv olkovovti. Upo- 

pX-qfxaaLv dpa, '^v 8' iyco, ;!^/Dcu/iep'ot uiaTT^p 

yecofjierpLav ovrco Kal aurpovop,Lav p,eri[X€v ra 

C S eV Tcp ovpavcb edaofiev, el fieXXop^ev ovrcog 

matical conceptions is no more than modern astronomers 
say. In the Laws pas.sage Plato protests against the idea 
that there is no law and order governing the movement of 
the planets, but that they are " wandering stars," as irregular 
in their movements as they seem. In the Timaeus he is saying 
that astronomy or science took its beginning from the sight 
and observation of the heavenly bodies and the changing 
seasons. In the Republic Plato's purpose is to predict and 
encourage a purely mathematical astronomy and to indicate 
its place in the type of education which he wishes to give 
liis guardians. There is not the slightest contradiction or 
change of opinion in the three passages if interpreted rightly 
in their entire context. 

" The meaning is not appreciably affected by a slight 
doubt as to the construction of ^-oTeiv. It is usually taken 
with droTTov (regarded as neuter), the meaning being that the 
philosophic astronomer will think it strange to look for the 
absolute truth in these things. This double use of drowov is 
strained and it either makes iravrl Tpdirip awkward or attri- 
butes to Plato the intention of decrying the concrete study 
of astronomy. I think t'nTelv etc. are added by a trailing 
anacoluthon such as occurs elsewhere in the Republic. Their 
subject is the real astronomer who, using the stars only as 
"diagrams" or patterns (529 d), seeks to learn a higher 
exacter mathematical truth than mere observation could 
yield. Madvig's ^yir-qaeL implies a like view of the meaning 
but smooths out the construction. But my interpretation of 
the passage as a whole does not depend on this construction. 
If we make i^tiTelv depend on drowov (neuter) ijyrifffTai, the 
meaning will be that he thinks it absurd to expect to get 
that higher truth from mere observation. At all events 
Plato is not here objecting to observation as a suggestion 
for mathematical studies but to its substitution for them, as 
the next sentence shows. 

* That is just what the mathematical astronomy of to-day 

186 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

bodies and are visible objects — and that his unre- 
mitting quest " is the realities of these things ? " "I 
at least do think so," he said, " now that I hear it 
from you." " It is by means of problems,'' then," said 
I, " as in the study of geometry, that we will pursue 
astronomy too, and we will let be the things in the 
heavens," if we are to have a part in the true science of 

does, and it is a -iroWairXdfftov Ipyov compared with the 
merely observational astronomy of Plato's day. Cf. the 
interesting remarks of Sir James Jeans, apud S. J. Woolf, 
Drawn from Life, p. 74: "The day is gone when the 
astronomer's work is carried on only at the eyepiece of a 
telescope. Naturally, observations must be made, but these 
must be recorded by men who are trained for that purpose, 
and I am not one of them,"' etc. 

Adam's quotation of Browning's " Abt Vogler *' in con- 
nexion with this passage will only confirm the opinion of those 
who regard Plato as a sentimental enemv of science. 

" Cf. also Phileh. 59 a, Aristot. Met'. 997 b 35 ovlk irepi 
rbv ovpavbv i) aarpoXoyia rovde. 

This intentional Ruskinian houtade has given great 
scandal. The Platonist, we are told ad nauseam, deduces 
the world from his inner consciousness. This Is of course 
not true (cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 45). But Plato, 
like some lesser writers, loves to emphasize his thought by 
paradox and surprise, and his postulation and prediction 
of a mathematical astronomy required emphasis. Cf. my 
Platonism and the History of Science, pp. 171-174. 

This and similar passages cannot be used to prove that 
Plato was unscientific, as many hostile or thoughtless critics 
have attempted to do. Cf. e.g. the severe strictures of Arthur 
Piatt, Nine Essays, Cambridge Univ. Press, 1927, pp. 12-16, 
especially p. 16: "Plato being first and foremost a meta- 
physician with a sort of religious system would not have us 
study anything but metaphysics and a kind of mj'Stic 
religion." WcKKibridge Riley, From Myth to Reason, p. 47 : 
"... Plato . . . was largely responsible for turning back 
the clock of scientific progress. To explain the wonders of 
the world he preferred imagination to observation." Cf. also 
Benn, Greek Philosophers, vol, i. pp. 173 and 3;^7, Herrick, 

187 



PLATO 

darpovo [xias fxeraXafx^dvovTes ;)^/)7^ori/u.of to <j>vaei 
^povijjiov iv rfj ifjvxfj e^ dxprjorov TTonqaeLV. ^H. 
TToXXaTrXdaLOV , ecfirj, ro epyov r^ (hs vvv darpovo- 
ixetrai TrpoaTdrreLS. Olfiai 8e ye, eiTTOV, /cat 
faAAa Kara rov avrov rpoTTOv Trpoard^eiv rjfids, 
idv TL ripLOJv (OS vofioderdjv 6(f)eXos fj. 

XII. 'AAAa yap ri e;\;et? VTTOixvrjaai rcov TTpoa- 
rjKovTwv pLaOrjfxdTCov ; Ovk e^oj, ecf)^], vvv y 
ovTCoai. Ov firjv ev, dXXd TrXeico, rjV 8' eyco, etSry 
D TTapexerai rj (f)opd, ws eycLfxai.. rd [ikv ovv ndvra 
tacos oans (JO(f)6s e^ei, eiTreLV a 8e /cai rjpuv 
7Tpo(j)av7J, Svo. riota 87^; Upos tovtco, 'qv 8' 
iyo), dvrLaTpo<j)OV avrov. To ttolov; K-ivSwevei, 
€(f)rjVy <x)S irpos darpovoiiiav opufxaTa TreirriyeVy co? 
TTpos evapjJLOvcov <f)opdv cLra Trayrjvai, /cat aurat 
dXXTjXcov aSeA^at rtves at eTnaTrjpiaL etvai,, d)s ot 
T€ HvOayopeLOL (^acrt /cat rjpLets, cb TXavKcov, 

The Thinking Machine, p. 335, F. C. S. Schiller, Plato and 
his Predecessors, p. 81 : " . . . that Plato's anti-empirical 
bias renders him profoundly anti-scientific, and that his 
influence has always, openly or subtly, counteracted and 
thwarted the scientific impulse, or at least diverted it into 
unprofitable channels." Dampier-Whetham, A History of 
Science, pp. 27-28 : " Plato was a great philosopher but in 
the history of experimental science he must be counted a 
disaster." 

Such statements disregard the entire context of the 
Platonic passages they exploit, and take no account of 
Plato's purpose or of other passages which counteract his 
seemingly unscientific remarks. 

Equally unfair is the practice of comparing Plato un- 
favourably with Aristotle in this respect, as Grote e.g. 
frequently does (c/. Aristotle, p. 233). Plato was an artist 
and Aristotle an encyclopaedist ; but Plato as a whole is far 
nearer the point of view of recent science than Aristotle. 
Cf. my Platonism and the History of Science, p. 163; also 
532 A and on 529 a, p. 1 80, note a, and What Plato Said, p. 236. 
188 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

astronomy and so convert to right use from useless- 
ness that natural indwelling intelligence of the soul." 
" You enjoin a task," he said, " that will multiply 
the labour ** of our present study of astronomy many 
times." " And I fancy," I said, " that our other 
injunctions will be of the same kind if we are of any 
use as lawgivers. 

XII. " However, what suitable studies have you 
to suggest } " " Nothing," he said, " thus off-hand." 
"Yet, surely," said I, " motion* in general provides 
not one but many forms or species, according to my 
opinion. To enumerate them all will perhaps be the 
task of a wise man,^ but even to us two of them 
are apparent." " What are they ? " " In addition 
to astronomy, its counterpart," I replied. " What 
is that ? " " We may venture to suppose." I said, 
" that as the eyes are framed for astronomy so the 
ears are framed ** for the movements of harmony ; 
and these are in some sort kindred sciences,* as the 
Pythagoreans^ affirm and we admit,' do we not, 

" Cf. Phaedr. 212 b Kairoi ov a^iKpciv ye (paiverai Ipr-fov. 
Plato here generalizes motion as a subject of science. 

"^ The modesty is in the tone of the Timaeus. 

* For T€irTiyf.v cf. 605 a. 

' The similar statement attributed to Archytas, Diels i.' 
p. 331, is probably an imitation of this. 

' Pythagoras is a great name, but little is known of him. 
" Pythagoreans " in later usage sometimes means mystics, 
sometimes mathematical physicists, sometimes both. Plato 
makes use of both traditions but Ls dominated by neither. 
For Erich Frank's recent book, Plato unci die sogenannten 
Pythagoreer, cf. my article in Cla-os. Phil. vol. xxiii. (1928) 
pp. 347 ff. The student of Plato will do well to turn the page 
when he meets the name Pythagoras in a commentator. 

» For this turn of phrase cf. Vol. I. p. 333, 42 1 c, Protag. 
316 A, Symp. 186 e. 

189 



PLATO 

^vyx(opovfjL€v. Tq ttojs Troiovjxev; OuVo)?, e^T?- 
\jvKovv, rjv o eyco, e7T€Lor) ttoAv to epyov, eKei,- 
vcjjv TTevaojJieda, ttcos Xeyovai Trepl avrcjv /cat et 
Ti aAAo TTpos TovTOis; TjfJiels 8e napa navra 
ravra ^uAafo^ev to rjpLeTepov. Yiolov ; Mry ttot* 
avTwv Ti dreAe? eTn)(^eipa>aLV T^pXv yboudaveiv ovs 
6pei/jofji,€v, /cat ovK e^TJKov eKelae det, of TTovTa Set 
d(J)'qKet,v, olov d/art Trepl ttjs aaTpovopLLas eXeyofxev. 
531 ■^ ouAc olad* OTL /cat Trepl dpfxovLas CTcpov tolovtov 
TTOiovai; rd? yap d/couo/xevas' av avjxcfxxJVLas /cat 
(f)06yyovs dAAi^Aots" dvajxeTpovvTes dvqvvTa cocrTrep 
ol daTpovopLOL TTOVouatv. Ni7 tovs deovg, e<j>7], /cat 
yeAoicoj ye, f^^lVKvcajMox*. aspred ovojJidljOVTes /cat 
7rapa^dXXovT€S ra cSra, oiov e/c yecTovcov (jiCDvrjV 
drjpevopievot, ol fiev (f)aaLV ert KaTaKovetv ev pieaco 
TLvd rjXW '^^'' orp't'KpdTaTOV etvaL tovto 8idaTr][xa, 



*» For the reference to experts c/. supra 400 b, 424 c. Cf. 
also What Plato Said, p. 484, on Laches 184 d-e. 

* Trapd of course here means " throughout " and not 
" contrary." 

' I take the word dreXe's etymologically {cf. pp. 66-67, note b, 
on 500 a), with reference to the end in view. Others take it 
in the ordinary Greek sense, "imperfect," "incomplete." 

■* This passage is often taken as another example of Plato's 
hostility to science and the experimental method. It is of 
course not that, but the precise interpretation is difficult. 
Glaucon at first misapprehends {cf. p. 180, note a, on 529 a) 
and gives an amusing description of the mere empiricist in 
music. But Socrates says he does not mean these, but those 
who try to apply mathematics to the perception of sound 
instead of developing a (Kantian) a priori science of harmony 
to match the mathematical science of astronomy. Cf. also 
p. 193, note^-, on 531 b, W. Whewell, Transactions of the Cam- 
bridge Philos. Soc. vol. ix. p. 589, and for music A. Rivaud, 
" Platon et la musique," Rev. d'Histoire de la Philos. 1929, 

190 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

Glaucon ? " " We do," he said. " Then," said I, 
" since the task is so great, shall we not inquire of 
them " what their opinion is and whether they have 
anything to add ? And we in all this ^ \\"ill be on 
the watch for what concerns us." " WTiat is that ? " 
" To prevent our fosterlings from attempting to learn 
anything that does not conduce to the end '^ we have 
in view, and does not always come out at what we said 
ought to be the goal of everything, as we were just 
now saying about astronomy. Or do you not know 
that they repeat the same procedure in the case 
of harmonies'*? They transfer it to hearing and 
measure audible concords and sounds against one an- 
other,* expending much useless labour just as the 
astronomers do." " Yes, by heaven," he said, " and 
most absurdly too. They talk of something they 
call minims ^ and, laying their ears alongside, as if 
trying to catch a voice from next door,^ some affirm 
that they can hear a note between and that this is 
the least interval and the unit of measurement, while 

pp. 1-30; also Stallbaum ad loc., and E. Frank, Platon 
M. d. sog. Pyth., Anhang, on the history of Greek music. 
He expresses surprise (p. 139) that Glaucon knows nothing 
of Pythagorean theories of music. Others use this to prove 
Socrates' ignorance of music. 

• This hints at the distinction developed in the Politicui 
between relative measurement of one thing against another 
and measurement by a standard. Cf. Polit. 283 e, 284 b-c, 
Theat. 186 a. 

' TTiKvufiara (condensed notes). The word is technical. 
Cf. Adam ad loc. But, as drra shows, Plato is using it 
loosely to distinguish a measure of sense perception from a 
mathematically determined interval. 

• Cf. Pater, Renaissance, p. 157. The phrase, ^k yeirovwy, 
is colloquial and, despite the protest of those who insist that 
it only means in the neighbourhood, suggests overhearing 
what goes on next door — as often in tiie New Comedy. 

191 



PLATO 

a» fX€Tpr]T€ov, OL 8e diJi(f>i,a^7jTovvr€s (x)s ofxoiov rjS'q 
B (fydeyyoixevcov, aix^oTepoi cSra rov vov TrpoaTrjcrd- 
fxevoL. YiV fJiev, t^v S' iyco, tovs ;;^/)17CTtous' Xeyets 
Tovs rats ;!^o/)Sars" TTpdyfiaTa napexovras /cat 
^aaavil,ovTas , €7tI tcov koXXottcov arpe^Xovvras' 
Lva he firj fiaKporepa rj cIkcov yiyvrjrai, TrXrjKrpcp 
T€ TrXrjyijjv yiyvojJLevcov /cat Karrjyoplas Trepi /cat 
i^apvqaecos koI dXat^oveias ;\;o/38a)v, rravopai, ttjs 
etKovos /cat ov (f)rjp,i tovtovs Xdyeiv, aAA' eKCcvovg 
ovs e(f)aiJiev vvv Srj Trepl dppovias ip-qaeaOai. 
C ravTov yap iroLovai rots iv rfj darpovofjiiq.' tovs 
yap iv ravrais rals avp^^coviais rat? a/couo/xevat? 
apidp,ov<5 l,rjTovaiv, dAA' ovk els Trpo^X'qp.aTa 
dviacTLv €7n<jK07Teiv, rives ^vfjL(f)<x>vot dpidfxol /cat 
TLves ov, /cat 8ta ri eKdrepoi. Aaifjioviov ydp, e(f>r), 
TTpdyixa Xeyeis. ^prjaijxov p,€v ovv, rjv 8' eyoi, Trpos 

" Cf. Aldous Huxley, Jesting Pilate, p. 152: "Much is 
enthusiastically taught about the use of quarter tones in 
Indian music. I listened attentively at Lucknow in the 
hope of hearing some new and extraordinary kind of melody 
based on these celebrated fractions. But I listened in vain." 
Gomperz, Greek Thinkers, iii. pp. 334-335, n. 85, thinks 
that Plato " shrugs his shoulders at experiments." He refers 
to Plutarch, JAfe of Marcellus, xiv. 5, and Quaest. Conv. 
viii. 2. 1, 7, where Plato is represented as "having been 
angry with Eudoxus and Archytas because they employed 
instruments and apparatus for the solution of a problem, 
instead of relying solely on reasoning." 

*■ So Malebranche, Entretiens sur la metaphysique, 3, x. : 
" Je pense que vous vous moquez de moi. C'est la raison 
et non les sens qu'il faut consulter." 

* For xpV<^Tos in this ironical sense cf. also 479 a, Symp. 
177 b. 

•* The language of the imagery confoimds the torture of 
slaves giving evidence on the rack with the strings and pegs 
of a musical instrument. For the latter cf. Horace, A. P. 348, 

192 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

others insist that the strings now render identical 
sounds," both preferring their ears to their minds.''" 
" You," said I, " are speaking of the worthies'' who 
vex and torture the strings and rack them ** on the 
pegs ; but — not to draw out the comparison with 
strokes of the plectrum and the musician's complaints 
of too responsive and too reluctant strings ^ — I drop 
the figure/ and tell you that I do not mean these 
people, but those others' whom we just now said we 
would interrogate about harmony. Their method 
exactly corresponds to that of the astronomer ; for 
the numbers they seek are those found in these heard 
concords, but they do not ascend'' to generahzed 
problems and the consideration which numbers are 
inherently concordant and which not and why in 
each case." "A superhuman task," he said. " Say, 
rather, useful,* " said I, " for the investigation of the 

nam neque chorda sonum reddit quern vult manus et mens 
poscentique gravem persaepe remittit acutum. 

Stallbaum says that Plato here was imitated by Aristaenetus, 
Epistyxiv, hbr. 1 ri Trpdy/xara irapix^'''^ X°P^°-'* / 

* Tnis also may suggest a reluctant and a too willing 
witness. 

' Cf. on 489 A, p. 23, note d. 

' liedistinguishesfromthepure empirics just satirized those 
w ho apply their mathematics only to the data of observation. 
This is perhaps one of Plato's rare errors. For though there 
may be in some sense a Kantian a priori mechanics of 
astronomy, there can hardly be a purely a priori mathematics 
of acoustics. What numbers are consonantly harmonious 
must always remain a fact of direct experience. Cf. my 
Platonism and the History of Science, p. 176. 

* Cf. Friedlander, Platon, i. p. 108, n. 1. 

* Cf. Tim. 47 c-D. Plato always keeps to his point — cf. 
349 B-c, 564 A-B — or returns to it aft^r a digression. Cf. on 
572 B, p. 339, note e. 

VOL. 11 O 193 



PLATO 

TTjv rov KoXov re kol ayaOov ^-qTrjaiv, aAAco? Se 
fierahiCOKoiJievov axprjarov. EtVo? y', ^'^^• 

XIII. OljxaL 8e ye, rjv 8' eyco, kol rj tovtojv 

J) TTOLVTCov J)v 8t,eXrjXu9aiJi€v jxeOoBos eav fiev em 
TTyv aXX-qXa^v KOLVojviav a(f)LKrjrai /cat ^vyyeveiav, 
/cat ^vXXoytaOfj ravra fj eariv aAAi^Aot? OLKeXa, 
<f)epeLv Tt avTCov els a ^ovXofieda rrjv Trpaynareiav 
/cat ovK dvovTjTa noveiadaL, el he jxifj, dvovrjra. 
Kai eyco, e^^, ovroj ixavTevofxai. dXXd Trd/jiTToXv 
epyov Xeyeis, c5 Hu)Kpares. ToQ Trppoiixiov, 171/ 8' 
eycu, r^ rtVo? Xeyeis; rj ovk lafxev on Trdvra 
ravra TrpootpLca eariv avrov rov vojjlov ov 8et 
fxadeiv; ov ydp ttov Sokovctl ye croi ol ravra 

E 8611^01 8iaAe/CTt/cot eti^at. Ov jxd rov At", e^f], el 

jXT] fidXa ye rives dXlyoi Jjv eyco evrervx'r]Ka. 

AAA' rihrj,^ eiTTOv, ^rj Svvaroi rives ovres^ Sovvai re 

/cat diTohe^aadai Xoyov eiaeaOai rrore ri (Lv 0a/xev 

1 dXXci 1557? ADM, dXXa 57) F. 

' /XT} dvvaroi rives 6vTis A^FDM, oi fiij Swaroi tlvcs 6vr€s A: 
fir] Swarol otrives Burnct. 



" Cf. on 505 B, p. 88, note a. 

' fjL^dodos, like wpay/jiaTelav in D, is used almost in the 
later technical sense of " treatise " or " branch of study." 
Cf. on 528 D, p. 178, note a. 

Cf. on 537 c, Epin. 991 e. 

** Plato is fond of this image. It suggests here also the 
preamble of a law, as the translation more explicitly in- 
dicates. Cf. 532 D, anticipated in 457 c, and Latcs 722 d-e, 
723 A-B and e, 720 d-e, 772 e, 870 d, 854 a, 932 a and passim. 

' Cf. Theaet. 146 b, and perhaps Euthyd. 290 c. Though 
mathematics quicken the mind of the student, it is, apart 
from metaphysics, a patter of common experience that 
mathematicians are not necessarily good reasoners on other 
subjects. Jowett's wicked jest, " I have hardly ever known 
a mathematician who could reason," misled an eminent 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

beautiful and the good," but if otherwise pursued, 
useless," " That is likely," he said. 

XIII. " And what is more," I said, " I take it that 
if the investigation * of all these studies goes far 
enough to bring out their community and kinship " 
>vith one another, and to infer their affinities, then 
to busy ourselves with them contributes to our de- 
sired end, and the labour taken is not lost ; but 
othen^ise it is vain." " I too so surmise," said he ; 
" but it is a huge task of which you speak, Socrates." 
" Are you talking about the prelude,**" I said, " or 
what ? Or do we not know that all this is but the 
preamble of the law itself, the prelude of the strain 
that we have to apprehend ? For you surely do not 
suppose that experts in these matters are reasoners 
and dialecticians*?" "No, by Zeus," he said, 
" except a very few whom I have met." " But have 
you ever supposed," I said, " that men who could 
not render and exact an account ' of opinions in 
discussion would ever know anything of the things 

professor of education who infers that Plato disbelieved in 
"mental discipline" (Yale Review. Julv 1917). C/. also 
Taylor, Note in Reply to Mr. A. W. Benn, Mind, xii. (1903) 
p. 511; Charles Fox, Educational Psychology, pp. 187- 
188 : "... a training in the mathematics may produce 
exactness of thought . . . provided that the training is of 
such a kind as to inculcate an ideal which the pupil values 
and strives to attain. Failing this, Glaucon's observation 
that he had ' hardly ever known a mathematician who was 
capable of reasoning ' is likely to be repeated." On the text 
ef. Wilamowitz, Platan, ii. pp. 384-385, and Adam ad loc. 

' Xo-yox . . . doivai. A commonplace Platonic plea for 
dialectics. Cf. 534 b, Prot. 336 c, Polit. 2S6 a, Theaet. 
202 c, 175 c, 183 d. Soph. 230 a, Phaedo 78 c-d, 95 d. 
Charm. 165 b, Xen. Oecon. 11. 22. Cf. also \6yov Xa^iv 
Rep. 402 A, 534 b. Soph. 246 c, Theaet. 208 d, and Thompson 
on Meno 75 d. 

195 



PLATO 

532 8elv eihivai; Ou8 av, e(f>r], tovto ye. Ovkovv, 
ecTTov, d) TXavKOiv, ottos' yjSrj avros iariv 6 vo/JLog 
ov TO StaXeyecrdaL TrepaLvei; ov /cat ovra votjtov 
/jh/xoXt^ av rj rrjs oiltecog SvvafxLs, rjv iXiyojxev npos 
avra TJhr] ra i^wa einx^Lpetv aTTo^XeTreiv /cai npos 
avra acrrpa re /cai reXevralov Srj Trpos avrov rov 
rjXLOv. ovTio /cat orav tls tco SiaXeyeadai ein- 
X^'-pfi o-vev naacov rcov aladrjaecov Std rod Xoyov 
en avro o eariv eKaarov oppudv^ /cat pirj aTToarfj, 
B TTpiv av avro o eariv dyaOov avrfj voijaeL Xd^j], eV 
avrcp yiyverau rep rov vo-qrov reXei, woTrep eKelvos 
rore em rep rov oparov. YlavraTraai p,ev ovv, e^rj. 
Ti ovv; ov SiaXeKriKiqv ravrr)v rrjv vopeiav 
KaXels; Ti fi'qv; *H 8e ye, t^j/ S' eyo), Xvats re 
drro rcjov heapicov /cat p,eraarpo(J)rj dno rcov aKiwv 
€771 ra e'ihcjXa /cat ro (f)OJs /cat e/c rov Karayeiov eiV 
rov rjXiov eirdvodos, /cat e/cet Trpos p^ev rd ^a>d re 
^ 6p//a»' Clemens : 6p/^a AFDM. 

" C/. Phileb. 58 d, Meno 75 c-d. Charm. 155 a, Cratyl 
390 c, and on 533 b, pp. 200 f., note/. 

* This is not a literal rendering, but gives the meaning. 

" Cf. 516 A-B. Plato interprets his imagery again here 
and in b infra. 

<* Cf. supra p. 180, note a, and p. 187, note c. Cf. also 537 d, 
and on 476 a ff. Cf. Bergson, Introduction to Metaphysics, 
p. 9 : " Metaphysics, then, is the science which claims to dis- 
pense with symbols " ; E. S. Robinson, Readirigs in General 
Psych, p. 295 : " A habit of suppressing mental imagery must 
therefore characterize men who deal much with abstract ideas; 
and as the power of dealing easily and firmly with these 
ideas is the surest criterion of a high order of intellect . . ." ; 
Pear, Remembering and Forgetting, p. 57 : " He (Napoleon) 
is reported to have said that ' there are some who, from 
some physical or moral peculiarity of character, form a 
picture (tableau) of everything. No matter what knowledge, 
intellect, courage, or good qualities they may have, these men 
196 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

we say must be known ? " " No is surely the answer 
to that too." " This, then, at last, Glaucon," I said, 
" is the very law which dialectics '^ recites, the strain 
which it executes, of which, though it belongs to the 
intelligible, we may see an imitation in the progress ^ 
of the faculty of \'ision, as we described" its en- 
deavour to look at hving things themselves and the 
stars themselves and finally at the very sun. In hke 
manner, when anyone by dialectics attempts through 
discourse of reason and apart from all perceptions of 
sense** to find his way to the very essence of each thing 
and does not desist till he apprehends by thought 
itself the nature of the good in itself, he arrives at 
the hmit of the intelligible, as the other in our 
parable came to the goal of the \isible." " By all 
means," he said. " What, then, will you not call this 
progress of thought dialectic ? " " Surely." " And 
the release from bonds," I said, " and the conversion 
from the shadows to the images * that cast them and 
to the Ught and the ascent ' from the subterranean 
cavern to the world above," and there the persisting 

are unfit to command " ; A. Bain, Mind, 1880, p. 570 : " Mr. 
Gallon is naturally startled at finding eminent scientific men, 
by their own account, so verj- low in the visualizing power. His 
explanation, I have no doubt, hits the mark ; the deficiency is 
due to the natural antagonism of pictorial aptitude and abstract 
thought " ; Judd, Psychology of High School Subjects, p. 321 : 
" It did not appear on superficial examination of the stand- 
ings of students that those who can draw best are the best 
students from the point of view of the teacher of science." 

• el5w\a : cf. mv Idea of Good in Plato's Republic, p. 238 ; 
also 516 A, Theaet. 150 c. Soph. 240 a, 241 e, 234 c, 266 b 
with 267 c, and Rep. 517 d d7aX/idra;»'. 

• iiravo5o% became almost technical in Neoplatonism. Cf. 
also 517 A, 529 a, and p. 124, note 6. 

• Lit. "sun," i.e. the world illumined by the sun, not by 
the fire in the cave. 

197 



PLATO 

/cat 0uTa Kal to tov tjXiov (f)cds en aSuva/iita* 
C pAeTTeiv, Trpos Se to. iv v8aac <f)avTaajxaTa ^eta" koX 
GKias Tcbv ovTiov, aAA' ovK elScoXcov aKias St' 
€Tepov TOLOVTov ^coTos (hs TTpos 'qXiov KpLveiv 
aTTO<yKiat,opLivas , Trdcra avTT] r^ TrpaypiaTeia tcov 
Texviov, as Si.ijXdofiev, TavTrjv e;^ei ttjv Svvap,i,v /cat 
evavayioyrjv tov ^eArtCTroy ev ^vxfj Trpos 'rr)v tov 
apioTov iv TOLs ovai dcav, ooairep t6t€ tov aa- 
(f)eaTdTov ev ad>ixaTL TTpos tyjv tov (f)avoTaTov iv 
D TO) CTCD/iaroetSet re /cat opaTO) tottco. 'Eycu fxev, 
e(f)r]j dvoSexofiai ovtoj. KaiToi TravTaTraai ye fioi 
oo/cet ;^aAe7ra fiev OLTTohcx^oOat elvai, dXXov 8' aS 
TpoTTOV ■^(^aXeTTd jXTj OLTTohexeodai. ojjLCos Se — ov yap 
€v Tcp vvv rrapovTi /xovov d/covo-rea, dAAd /cat avdis 
TToXXaKLs €TTaviT€ov — TavTa QivTes ^;\;etv <hs vvv 
Aeyerat, €tt* a^ov hrj tov vsofMOV 'iojpiev, /cat 
SieXdcofxev ovtojs oiairep to Trpooipnov Si'qXdofxev. 
Xeye ovv, tls 6 Tponos ttjs tov StaXeyeadai Svvd- 
E fieojs, Kal /card 770ta Srj ethr] SteaTrjKe, /cat TLves 
av oSot. avTai yap dv rjhrj, (hs eoiKev, at Trpos 
avTo dyovaai elev, ot d^t/co/xeVa> otaTrep oBov 
dmTrauAa dv ett] /cat TeXos ttjs Tropeias. Oy/ceV, 

^ ^rt aSwafxia lamblichus : fTr' aSwafiiq, ADM, ddwafxia F. 
^ de7a Mss., bracketed by Stallbaum : Oea Ast and Apelt. 
Adam once proposed <Kai ev toU oora irvKvd re Kal \>ela. 

" See crit. note. The text of lamblichus is the only reason- 
able one. The reading of the manuscripts is impossible. 
For the adverb modifying a noun cf. 558 b oi)5' bwwaTLovv 
ff/xiKpo\oyia, Laws 638 b cr(p65pa yvfaiKwu, with England's 
note, Theaet. 183 e irdw irpea^vTris, Laws 791 c wavTe'Kwi 
TraiSwv, 698 c acpodpa <pi\ia. Rep. 564 a Ayai' dovXelai/, with 
Stallbaum's note. " 

198 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

inability '* to look directly at animals and plants and 
the light of the sun, but the ability to see the phan- 
tasms created by God * in water and shadows of objects 
that are real and not merely, as before, the shadows 
of images cast through a light which, compared with 
the sun, is as unreal as they — all this procedure of 
the arts and sciences that we have described indicates 
their power to lead the best part of the soul up to the 
contemplation of what is best among realities, as in 
our parable the clearest organ in the body was turned 
to the contemplation of what is brightest in the 
corporeal and visible region." " I accept this," he 
said, "as the truth ; and yet it appears to me very hard 
to accept, and again, from another point of view, hard 
to reject." Nevertheless, since we have not to hear 
it at this time only, but are to repeat it often here- 
after, let us assume that these things are as now has 
been said, and proceed to the melody itself, and go 
through with it as we have gone through the prelude. 
Tell me, then, what is the nature of this faculty of 
dialectic ? Into what divisions does it fall ? And what 
are its ways ? For it is these, it seems, that would 
bring us to the place where we may, so to speak, rest 
on the road and then come to the end of our joumey- 

* Oeia because produced by God or nature and not by man 
with a mirror or a paint-brush. See crlt. note and C7a#.*. 
Revieic, iv. p. 480. I quoted Sophist 266 b-d, and Adam with 
rare candour withdrew his emendation In his Appendix XIII. 
to this book. Apelt still misimderstands and emends, p. 296 
and note. 

' This sentence is fundamental for the understanding of 
Plato's metaphysical philosophv generallv. Cf. Unify of 
Plato's Thought, p. 30, n. 193, Ulmt Plato' Said, p. 268 and 
p. 586 on Parmen. 135 c. So Tennyson says it is hard to 
believe in God and hard not to believe. 

199 



PLATO 

633 7)v 8' iyco, aj ^C\e TXavKOiv, oto? t eaei aKoXovdetv 
€7T€i TO y efjiov ovSev av npoOvfiiag aTToAtVof ouS' 
eiKova av ere o5 Xeyofxev tSot?, aAA' avTo to 
aXrjdes, o ye St^ fJiOL c^atVerat — el 8' ovrcog t] /xtj 
ovK€T* a^iov Tovro huaxvpit,eadai' dAA' on pikv 
hr] Toiovrov tl tSeiv, laxvptareov. t^ yap; Ti fjLrjv; 
OvKovv /cat on rj rov SiaXeyeadai Svvafiis ixovrj av 
(f>'r]V€L€V efiTTeLpcp ovri a)v vvv 8r] Sn^Xdajxev, aXXrj 
8e ovSafifj Svvarov; Kat tout', £9^17, a^iov 8t- 
iGxvpit,€adaL. To8e yow, i^r 8' eyco, o?}8et? y^jxlv 
B afJL<f)caP'r]T'q(T€i Xeyovaiv, ws avTOV ye €Kd(JTOV 



" This is not mysticism or secret doctrine. It is, in fact, 
the avoidance of dogmatism. But that is not all. Plato 
could not be expected to insert a treatise on dialectical 
method here, or risk an absolute definition which would 
only expose him to misinterpretation. The principles and 
methods of such reasoning, and the ultimate metaphysical 
conclusions to which they may lead, cannot be expounded 
in a page or a chapter. They can only be suggested to the 
intelligent, whose own experience will help them to under- 
stand. As the Republic and Laws entire explain Plato's 
idea of social good, so all the arguments in the dialogues 
illustrate his conception of fair and unfair argument. Cf. 
What Plato Said, Index s.v. Dialectics, and note /below. 

* For the idiom ovd^v irpodvfxlas airoKiiroL cf. Symp. 210 a, 
Meno 77 a, Laws 961 c, Aesch. Prom. 343, Thucyd. viii. 
22. 1, Eurip. Ilippol. 285. 

" On Plato's freedojji from the dogmatism often attributed 
to him cf. What Plato Said, p. 515 on Meno 86 b. 

"* The mystical implications of (p-^yeifv are not to be pressed. 
It is followed, as usual in Plato, by a matter-of-fact state- 
ment of the essential practical conclusion (yoOv) that no man 
can be trusted to think straight in large matters who has 
not been educated to reason and argue straight. 

' Plato anticipates the criticism that he neglects experience. 

f i.e. dispute our statement and maintain. The meaning 
is plain. It is a case of what I have called illogical idiom. 
800 • 



n 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

ing." " You will not be able, dear Glaucon, to follow 
me further," though on my part there will be no lack 
of goodwill.* And, if I could, I would show you, no 
longer an image and symbol of my meaning, but the 
very truth, as it appears to me — though whether 
rightly or not I may not properly affirm." But that 
something hke this is what we have to see, I must 
affirm.<= Is not that so?" "Surely." "And may we not 
also declare that nothing less than the power of dia- 
lectics could reveal ** this, and that only to one experi- 
enced * in the studies we have described, and that the 
thing is in no other wise possible ? " " That, too," he 
said, "we may properly affirm." "This, at any rate," 
said I, "no one will maintain in dispute against us^ : 
that there is any other way of inquiry ^ that attempts 

Cf. T.A.P.A. vol. xlvii. pp. 205-234.. The meaning is that 
of Philebus 58 e, 59 a. Other "science" may be more 
interesting or useful, but sound dialectics alone fosters the 
disinterested pursuit of truth for its own sake. Cf. Soph. 
235 c, Phaedr. 265-266. Aristotle, Topics i. 2. 6, practically 
comes back to the Platonic conception of dialectics. 

The full meaning of dialectics in Plato would demand a 
treatise. It is almost the opposite of what Hegelians call by 
that name, which is represented in Plato by the second part 
of the Parmenides. The characteristic Platonic dialectic is 
the checking of the stream of thought by the necessity of 
securing the understanding and assent of an intelligent 
interlocutor at every step, and the habit of noting all relevant 
distinctions, divisions, and ambiguities, in ideas and terms. 
When the interlocutor is used merely to relieve the strain on 
the leader's voice or the reader's attention, as in some of the 
later dialogues, dialectic becomes merely a literary form. 

' Cicero s "via et ratione." irepl vavrbs is virtually 
identical with avrov ye iKaarov wipi. 

It is true that the scientific specialist confines himself to 
his specialty. The dialectician, like his base counterfeit the 
sophist {Soph. 231 a), is prepared to ai^ue about anj-thing. 
Soph. 232 c f., Euthyd. 272 a-b. 

201 



PLATO 

TTepi, o eariv eKacrrov, dXXr) ti? eTn^^eipei fxeOoSos 

oSaJ TTepl navTOs Xafx^dvecv. dAA' at fxev aAAat 

TrdcraL rexvai rj rrpog Sofa? dvdpwTTCov Kal em- 

dvpiias etalv tq rrpog yeviaeis t€ Kal avvdeaeis 7] 

rrpog OepaTTecav tojv (f>voii€vaiV re koI avvTidefxevcov 

aTTaaai rerpd^araL' at 8e AoiTrai, a? tov ovrog tl 

i' e(f)apL€v eTTLXajji^dveadaL, y€Ojp,€TpLas re Kal rds 

C ravTT) eTTOfievas, opdjfiev cos oveipcoTTOvac [xev 

- TTepl TO 6v, VTTap Se dhvvarov avrals ISetv, ecos civ 

j VTToOeaeai xpcofxevai ravras aKivTJrovs icoat,, [xtj 

' hvvdfjievai Xoyov StSorat avrcJjv. (L yap dpx^ j^ter 

o yii] OLoe, reAevTrj oe Kai ra fieragv eg ov /xr) otoe 

avpLTTeTrXeKrai , rig p,r)X(tvr) rrjv roiavrrjv ofxoXoylav 

•jTOTe iTTi(7Tripi'r]v yeveadai; OvScfiia, rj 8' os. 

XIV. OvKovv, rjv 8' eyo), rj StaAeKrrt/ci^ fieOoBos 
fiovT) TavTT) TTopeverai, rds vvodecreis dvaipovaa, 
eTT* avTrjv ttjv dpx'^jv, tva ^e^aicocrrjrat,, Kai rep 

D ovri iv ^op^opcp ^ap^apiKcp tlvI to Trjs ff^vx^js op^pia 

i. 

" Cf. supra 525 c, 527 b. 

* The interpreters of Plato must allow for his Emersonian 
habit of hitting each nail in turn as hard as he can. There 
is no real contradiction between praising mathematics in 
comparison with mere loose popular thinking, and disparag- 
ing it in comparison with dialectics. There is no evidence 
and no probability that Plato is here proposing a reform of 
mathematics in the direction of modern mathematical logic, 
as has been suggested. Cf. on 527 a. It is the nature of 
mathematics to fall short of dialectics. 

" Cf. Phileb. 20 b and on 520 c, p. 143, note g. 
"* Cf. supra on 531 e. 

* The touch of humour in the expression may be illustrated 
by Lucian, Ilermotimus 74, where it is used to justify Lucian's 
scepticism even of mathematics, and by Hazlitt's remark on 
Coleridge, " Excellent talker if you allow him to start from 
no premises and come to no conclusion." 

* Or "admission." Plato thinks of even geometrical 
202 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

f systematically and in all cases to determine what each 
thing really is. But all the other arts have for their 
object the opinions and desires of men or are wholly 
concerned with generation and composition or with 
the service and tendance of the things that grow 
and are put together, while the remnant which we 
said " did in some sort lay hold on reality — geometry 
and the studies that accompany it — are, as we see, 
dreaming ^ about being, but the clear waking vision " 
of it is impossible for them as long as they leave the 
assumptions which they employ undisturbed and 
cannot give any account '^ of them. For where the 
starting-point is something that the reasoner does not 
know, and the conclusion and all that intervenes is 
a tissue of things not really known,* what possibility 
is there that assent ^ in such cases can ever be con- 
verted into true knowledge or science ? " " None," 
said he. 

XIV. " Then," said I, " is not dialectics the only 
process of inquiry that advances in this manner, 
doing away with hypotheses, up to the first principle 
itself in order to find confirmation there ? And it is 
literally true that when the eye of the soul' is sunk in 
reasoning as a Socratic dialogue. Cf. the exaggeration of 
this idea by the Epicureans in Cic. De fin. i. 21 " quae et a 
falsLs initiis profecta, vera esse non possunt : et si essent vera 
nihil afferunt quo iucundius, id est, quo melius viveremus." 

Dialectic proceeds 5ia ai.r^x'^P'h'^^'^^^ the admission of the 
interlocutor. Cf. Laws 957 d, Phaedr. 237 c-d, Gorg. 
487 E, Lysis 219 c, Prot. 350 e, PhiUb. 12 a, Theaet. 162 a, 
169 D-E, 164 c. Rep. 340 b. But such admissions are not 
valid unless when challenged they are carried back to some- 
thing satisfactory — iKavov — (not necessarily in any given 
case to the idea of good). But the mathematician as such 
peremptorily demands the admission of his postulates and 
definitions. Cf. 510 b-d, 511 b. 

» Cf. supra on 519 b, p. 138, note a. 

203 



PLATO 

KaTopojpvynevov rjpeyua eA/<ei koL avayei dvco, 
avvepidoLS koL aviiTTepiayajyols XP^I^^^V ^^^ ^^" 
fiXBopiev rexvo-LS' a? eTTiarrjixa? jxev TToXXaKts Trpoa- 
eiTTOfjiev Sta ro edos, heovrai he ovojjiaros dXXov, 
ivapyearepov p-ev •^ ho^iqs, dpvSporepov 8e t] 
iTnarrjp.ris . Sidvoiav 8e avrrjv eV ye rep Trpoadev 
7TOV (hpiadpeBa- eari S\ cos ep.ol So/cet, ov Trepl 
E ov6p,aros dp.(f)Lcr^'qTqaLs, ots tooovtcov irept OKeifjis 
oaoiv r^pXv TrpoKeiraL. Ov yap ovv, e<jirj- [dAA' o 
dv p.6vov Sr^Aot irpos rrjv e^co aa^iqveiav , d Xeyet 
iv ifjvxfj, dpKeueL.Y 'Apecncet yovv,^ rjv 8' iyd), 
waTTep TO nporepov, r7]v p,ev 7Tpd)T7]v jxolpav 
534 emarripLriv KoXelv, hevrepav he hidvoiav, rptrrjvoe 
TTLCTTLV Kal ecKaalav reTdprrjv /cat ^vvap,(f)6repa p.ev 
ravra ho^av, ^vvafK^orepa 8' CKelva vorjaiv /cai 
ho^av fiev Trepl yeueaiv, vorjaiv he Trepl ovaLav 
Kal o Tt ovaia Trpos yeveaiv, vorjaiv rrpos ho^av, 
Kal o Ti vorjaig Trpog ho^av, eTTiarripLr]v rrpos mariv 
Kal hidvoiav rrpos eiKaaiav rrjv 8' e^' ois raura 

^ The text as printed is that of Hermann, brackets by Adam. 
dW 6 AM, dWo FD : ^^lv (Ta(}>7)vdq. AFDM, ?^w ffa(p7jvdav 
Herm., irws rrjv ?^LV, (Ta(pyjve'iq. Burnet, rr/i' 'i^iv ttcSs ?xf' cracpriveia^ 
Bywater : d addidit et aa(p-r}veiav emendavit Herm. ; Xiya AD, 
\iyeLv FM, X^7eis A* : apKiaei Mss. See also Adam, Appendix. 

* a.pi(TKei MSS., Ka.1 apKiaeL Burnet; -yovv AM, odv FD, Burnet. 

" Orphism pictured the impious souls as buried in mud in 
the world below ; cf. 363 d. Again we should not press Plato's 
rhetoric and imagery either as sentimental Platonists or hostile 
critics. See Newman, Introd. Aristot. Pol. p. 463, n. 3. 

'' All writers and philosophers are compelled to " speak 
with the vulgar." Cf. e.g. Meyerson, De Vexplication dans 
les sciences, i. p. 339 : " Tout en sachant que la couleur n'est 
pas reellement une qualite de I'objet, a se servir cependant, 
dans la vie de tons les jours, d'une locution qui I'affirme." 

204 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

the barbaric slough ^ of the Orphic myth, dialectic 
gently draws it forth and leads it up, employing as 
helpers and co-operators in this conversion the studies 
and sciences which we enumerated, which we called 
sciences often from habit,* though they really need 
some other designation, connoting more clearness than 
opinion and more obscurity than science. 'Under- 
standing,'" I beheve, was the term we employed. But 
I presume we shall not dispute about the name** when 
things of such moment he before us for consideration." 
" No, indeed," he said.* * * * " Are you satisfied, 
then," said I, " as before,' to call the first division 
science, the second understanding, the third belief,' 
and the fourth conjecture or picture-thought — and the 
last two collectively opinion, and the first two intellec- 
tion, opinion deahng with generation, and intellection 
with essence, and this relation being expressed in the 
proportion'' : as essence is to generation, so is intellec- 
tion to opinion ; and as intellection is to opinion, so 
is science to belief, and understanding to image- 
thinking or surmise ? But the relation between 
their objective correlates* and the division into two 

« Cf. on 511 D, pp. 116-117, note c. 

<* This unwillingness to dispute about names when they do 
not concern the argument is characteristic of Plato. Cf. What 
Plato Said, p. 516 on Meno 78 b-c for numerous instances. 
Stallbaum refers to Max. Tyr. Diss, xxvii. p. 40 eyii yap rot 
TO. T€ 3.Wa, /cat ev r^ tQjv ovoijAtwv eXevOepig. irsiOouai UXdrwi'i. 

' The next sentence is hopelessly corrupt and is often 
considered an interpolation. The translation omits it. See 
Adam, Appendix XVI. to Bk. VII., By water. Journal of 
Phil. (Eng.) v. pp. 122-124. ' Supra 511 d-e. 

* Alwavs avoid " faith " in translating Plato. 

* Cf. on 508 c, p. 103, note h. 

* That is the meaning, though some critics will object to 
the phrase. Lit. " the things over which these (mental states) 
are set, or to which ^hey apply." 

205 



PLATO 

avaXoytav /cat hiaipecnv Sixfj eKarepov, ho^aarov 
T€ /cai vo-qrov, eiJofxev, co TAavKOJV, Iva fxrj rjfxds 
TToXKaTrXaaicov Xoywv ifXTrX'^ar} •^ oaojv ol rrap- 

B eXrjXvdoTes. 'AAAd firjv e/ioiy', €</>7j, rd ye oAAa, 
Kad^ oaov Svvafiai CTreadat, ^vvSoKei. ^H /cat 
SiaXeKTiKov KaXets rov Xoyov eKdarov Xap,^dvovra 
TTJs ovcrias ; kol tov p,rj 'iy^ovra, Kad^ oaov civ [xtj 
exj) Xoyov aura) re /cat aAAoj StSovai, /caret 
ToaovTOV vovv TTepi TOVTOV ov (f)rja€LS €)(€i,v; Ylcvs 
yap dv, ri 8' 6s, ^aiiqv; Ovkovv kol Trepl rod 
dyadov (haavrcos' os dv ixrj exjj hiopiaaadai rco 
Xoycx) dno tcov dXXcov Trdvrcov ^i^eAcu^, rr^v rod 

C dyadov I8eav, /cat coaTrep iv /xaj^?^ Sta TrdvTOJv 
iXeyx(ov Ste^tcov, /X17 /caret So^av dXXd /car' ovaiav 
TTpoOvixovfxevos iXeyx^LV, iv Trdai rovrois avrroirt 
Tw Xoycp SiaTTopevTjrai,, ovre avro to dyadov 
<j)ri(J€Ls etSeVat rov ovrcog e^ovra oure aAAo dyadov 
ovSev, dAA et ttt) etScoAou rivo? e^ctTrrerai, 80^77, 

" There are two probable reasons for this : (1) The objective 
dassification is nothing to Plato's present purpose ; (2) The 
second member of the proportion is lacking in the objective 
correlates. Numbers are distinguished from ideas not in 
themselves but only by the difference of method in dialectics 
and in mathematics. Cf. supra on 525 d, 52Q a. Unity of 
Plato's Thought, pp. 83-84, and Class. Phil. xxii. (1927) 
pp. 213-218. The explicit qualifications of my arguments 
there have been neglected and the arguments misquoted but 
not answered. They can be answered only by assuming the 
point at issue and affirming that Plato did assign an inter- 
mediate place to mathematical conceptions, for which there 
is no evidence in Plato's own writings. 

* Cf. supra on 531 e, p. 195, note/. 

" Cf. on 511 D, p. 116, note a. 

•* This would be superfluous on the interpretation that the 
lKav6v must always be the idea of good. What follows dis- 
tinguishes the dialectician from the eristic sophist. For the 
206 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

parts of each of these, the opinable, namely, and the 
intelligible, let us dismiss," Glaucon, lest it involve us 
in discussion many times as long as the preceding." 
" Well," he said, " I agree \vith you about the rest of 
it, so far as I am able to follow." " And do you not 
also give the name dialectician to the man who is able 
to exact an account '' of the essence of each thing ? 
And ^^^i[\ you not say that the one who is unable to 
do this, in so far as he is incapable of rendering an 
account to himself and others, does not possess full 
reason and intelligence " about the matter ? " " How 
could I say that he does ? " he replied. " And is not 
this true of the good likewse ** — that the man who 
is unable to define in his discourse and' distinguish 
and abstract from all other things the aspect or idea 
of the good, and who cannot, as it were in battle, 
running the gauntlet* of all tests, and striving to 
examine everything by essential reahty and not by 
opinion, hold on his way through all this without 
tripping/ in his reasoning — the man who lacks this 
power, you will say, does not really know the good 
itself or any particular good ; but if he apprehends 

short cut, Kai . . , wffavTus, cf. 523 e, 580 d, 585 d, 346 a, 
etc. 

* It imports little whether the objections are in his own 
mind or made bv others. Thought is a discussion of the soul 
with itself {cf. fheaet. 189 z, Phileb. 38 e. Soph. 263 e), and 
when the interlocutor refuses to proceed Socrates sometimes 
continues the argument himself dv supplying both question 
and answer, e.g. Gorg. 506 c fF. Cf. further Phaedrus'27S c, 
Parmen. 136 d-z, Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 17. 

' Cf. Theaet. 160 d, Phileb. 45 a. The practical outcome 
= Laics 966 a-b, Phaedr. 278 c. Soph. 259 b-c. Cf. Mill, 
I>iss. and hiac. iv. p. 283 : " There is no knowledge and no 
assurance of right belief but with him who can both confute 
the opposite opinion and successfully defend his own against 
confutation." 

J207 



PLATO 

ovK iTnarrjfir] e(j>a.TTTeadai, Kol tov vvv jSiov 
QveipoTToXovvTa Kal VTTVcoTTOvra, vrplv ivddS' i^- 

D eypeadai, ets" "AlSov irporepov dt^iKOjxevov reXecos 
eTTCKarahapdaveiv; Nt7 tov Ata, t^ S' 6s, a(f>6Spa 
ye TTOLVTa ravra cf)T^acD. 'AAAd ixtjv tovs ye aavrov 
rralhas, ovs rep Xoycp rpej>€Ls re /cat TratSeuei?, €i 
TTore epycp rpej>OLS, ovk dv edaais, co? eya>p.ai, 
dXoyovs ovras ujairep ypafxpids dp^ovras ev rfj 
TToXei Kvpiovs rojv fxeytarcov etvat. Ov yap oiiv, 
e(f)r). Nop.oderi]aeLS St] avrols ravrrjs ixdXiara 
rrjs TTaiBeiag avrtXapi^dveaOaL, e^ rjs epojrdv re 
/cat aTTOKpLveaOai eTTiar'qpuOvearara olot r eaovrai; 

E Nopioder'^crcx), e<j>7], fierd ye ^IQ^. 'Ap ovv 8o/cet 

aot, €cl)r]v iyd), oioirep dpLyKos )toIs p^adt^fxaaiv rj 

SiaAe/crt/CT^ rjfxXv eTrdvco Heladed, /cat ovKer' dXXo 

rovrov fxddrjfxa dvcorepco opOaJs dv €7nTL9eaOaL, 

535 aAA' ex^iv rjBr] reXos rd rcbv fxaOrjfxdrwv ; "EjjLoiy\ 

XV. AtavofjuT] roivvv, rjv 8' eyco, rd Xolttov aoi, 
rial, ravra rd /xa^i^/xara Scoaopiev /cat rtt-a rpoirov. 
ArjXov, e(f>r). Mep^vrjaat ovv rrjv Trporepav eKXoyiqv 
rcov dpxdvrojv, olovs e^eXe^apiev; Yicbs ydp, ■^ 8 
OS, ov; Ta /Ltef aAAa roivvv, -^v 8' eyd), eKewas 

" For eldiliXov cf. on 532 b, p. 197, note e. This maj^ be one 
of the sources of Epist. vii. 342 b. 

^ For Platonic intellectualism the life of the ordinary man 
is something between sleep and waking. Cf. Apol. 31 a. 
Note the touch of humour in reX^ws iiriKaTaoapddpeiv. Cf. 
Bridges, Psychology, p. 382: "There is really no clear-cut 
distinction between what is usually called sleeping and 
waking. In sleep we are less awake than in the waking 
hours, and in waking life we are less asleej) than in sleep." 

" Plato likes to affirm his ideal only of the philosophic 
rulers. 
208 



THE REPUBLIC, B©®K VII 

any adumbration*' of it, his contact with it is by opinion, 
not by knowledge ; and dreaming and dozing 
through his present life, before he awakens here he 
will arrive at the house of Hades and fall asleep for 
ever ? * " " Yes, by Zeus," said he, " all this I will 
stoutly affirm." " But, surely," said I, " if you 
should ever nurture in fact your children " whom you 
are now nurturing and educating in word,"* you would 
not suffer them, I presume, to hold rule in the state, 
and determine the greatest matters, being them- 
selves as irrational * as the lines so called in geometry"." 
" Why, no," he said. " Then you will provide by 
law that they shall give special heed to the discipline 
that will enable them to ask and answer ^ questions 
in the most scientific manner? " " I will so legislate," 
he said, " in conjunction with you." " Do^ou agree, 
then," said I, " that we have set dialectics above all 
other studies to be as it were the coping-stone ) — and 
that no other higher kind of study^cQuldja^tly be 
placed above it, but that our discussion of studies is 
now complete'* ? " "I do," he said. 

XV. " The distribution, then, remains," said I, " to 
whom we are to assign these studies and in what way." 
" Clearly," he said. " Do you remember, then, the 
kind of man we chose in our former selection* of 
rulers ? " " Of course," he said. " In most re- 
spects, then," said I, " you must suppose that we 

' Cf. 376 D, 369 c, 472 e, Critias 106 a. 

• A slight touch of humour. Cf. the schoolgirl who said, 
"These equations are inconsiderate and will not be solved." 

^ A frequent periphrasis for dialectics. Cf. rb epajTuinevov 
diroKpiv£<reai, Gorg. 461 e. Charm. 166 d, Prot. 338 D, Ale. I. 
106 b. 

' For oDo-TTf/} dpiyKui cf. Eur. Here. Fur. 1280, Aesch. Aff. 
1233; and Phileb. 58 c-d ff. 

» Cf. 541 B. ' Cf. 412 D-E, 485-487, 503 a, c-e. 

VOL. II p 209 



PLATO 

ras (f>v(7€LS otov helv exrAeKxeas' etvai' rovs re yap 
^e^atordrovs Kal rovs avSpeiordrovs trpoaipereov , 
Kol Kara, hvvaixiv rovs eveiSeardrovs' rrpos 8e 

B rovroLS ^rjrrjreov [xrj /jlovov yevvaiovs t€ Kai 
^XoGvpovs rd yjdy], dXXd Kal ^d rfjhe rfj TratSeia 

J rrjs ^vaeo)? 7Tp6a(f)opa CKreov avrots. Hota Srj 
SiaareXXet; ^pijxurjp^a, cS fjuaKapte, ecjuqv. Set au- 
Tots' 77/30? Ta p,a9riixara VTrdpx^iv, Kal jxt] ■)(aAe- 
TTOJS fiavOdvcLV TToXv yap roi fiaXXov aTToSeiXtcouL 
ipv^al iv laxvpols p,adrjjxaaiv rj ev yvfxvaatois' 
oiKetorepos yap avrals 6 ttovos, tSto? aAA ov 
KOLVos cov fxerd rod acjjxaros. 'AX-qdrj, ecfjrj. Kai 

C ixvrjjxova Sr) Kal ^paroV Kal Trdvrr^ ^lXottovov 
tjTjr'qreov . rj rivi rpoTTCp otei ra re rov (jajp.aros 
edeXriaetv rcvd hiaTTOvelv Kal roaavrrjv /xdOrjaLV re 
Kal fjieXerrjv emreXeZv; OuSeVa, rj S og, eav 
fjLT] TTavrdTTaat y* fj <£V(l)vqg. To yovv vvv afxap- 
TTjixa, rjv 8' eycx}, Kal rj art/xia (f)iXoao(f)la Sta 
ravra TrpoaveTrrajKev, o /cat irporepov enrov, on 
ov /car' d^iav avrijs aTTrovrai- ov yap vodovs eBei 
aTTreadai, dXXd yvrjoiovs. HcDs'; e^''?. Yipcbrov 

D jUeV, eliTOVy (jyiXoTTOvia ov /j^coAoi' Set elvat rov 
diftofxevov, rd pev Tjplcrea (f)tX67TOVov , rd o rjp^Laea 

\ dirovov eari he rovro, drav ns (fiiXoyvpvaarTjs pev 

\ Kal (f)iX697]pos fj Kal rrdvra rd Sia rov acvpiaros 

i (f)iXo7TOpfj , (f)iXopLa9rjs he jiij, p,rjBe </)lXt]koos jxrjhe 

^ " Intellectually as well as physically. Cf. 357 a, Prot. 
350 B f. 

* C/. Symp. 209 b-c, Phaedr. 252 e and Vol. I. p. 261 on 
402 D. Ascham, The Schoolmaster, Bk. I. also approves of 
this qualification. " For ^Xoavpovs cf. Theaet. 149 a. 

" Cf. 504 A, 374 E, Gorg. 480 c, Protag. 326 c, Euthyphro 
15 c. 
210 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

have to choose those same natures. The most stable, 
the most brave and enterprising " are to be preferred, 
and, so far as practicable, the most comely.'' But in 
addition v,e must now require that they not only be 
virile and vigorous " in temper, but that they possess 
also the gifts of nature suitable to this type of educa- 
tion." " What qualities are you distinguishing ? " 
" 'rhey-omst have, my friend, to begin with, a certain 
^enness/or study, and must not learn with difficulty. 
iPrrrSouIs are much more likely to flinch and faint <* in | 
severe studies than in gymnastics, because the toil / 
touches them more nearly, being peculiar to them and / 
not shared with the body." " True," he said. "And [ 
we must demand a good memory and doggedness and 
industry « in every sense of the word. Otherwise how 
do you suppose anyone will consent both to undergo 
all the toils of the body and to complete so great a 
course of study and discipline ? " " No one could," 
he said, "n unless most happily endowed." " Our 
present mistake," said I, " and the disesteem that 
has in consequence fallen upon philosophy are, as I 
said before,' caused by the unfitness of her associates 
and wooers. They should not have been bastards ^ but 
true scions." " What do you mean ?" he said. "In 
the first place," I said, "the aspirant to philosophy 
must not limp '' in his industry, in the one half of him 
loving, in the other shunning, toil. This happens when i 
anyone is a lover of gymnastics and hunting and all / 
the labours of the body, yet is not fond of learning or i 



* The qualities of the ideal student again. Cf. on 487 a. 
' Cf. supra 495 c if., pp. 49-51. 

» Montaigne, i. 24 (vol. i. p. 73), "les dines boiteuses, les 
bastardes et vulgaires, sont indignes de la philosophie." 

* Cf. Laws 634 a, Tim. 44 c. 

211 



PLATO 

! ^TjTTjTLKos, aAA' ev TTaai tovtols fiiaoTTOvfj' ;(;a>Aos 

1 8e Kal 6 rdvavTia rovrov fjL€ra^€^Xr]KOJS rrjv 

j <f)(,Xo7Toviav . 'AXr]6eaTaTa, e(f>r), Aeyet?. Ovkovv 

*:, Kal TTpos aX-r^detav, rjv 8' iyco, ravrou rovro am- 

E TTrjpov il}V)(7]V 6T]GOfX€V, 'i] av TO fxev eKovaiov 

ifievSos P'l'Crfj Kal p^aAeTrcD? 4^^P'l] o-VTrj re /cai erepcov 

ilievSofxevcov VTrepayavaKTrj , ro 8' aKovaiov evKoXcos 

7Tpoahexi)Tai Kal dfMaOalvovard ttov dXiaKOixevrj pur] 

dyavaKTTJ, aAA' ev^^pios ojoTvep drjpiov veiov ev 

•^36 dfxaOta pLoXvvqrai; UavrdTraai pev ovv, €(f>y]. 

Kai rrpos" (Jco(f)poavvr)v, rjv 8' iyco, Kal dvSpetav 

Kal pi€yaXo7Tpe7T€iav Kal Trdvra rd rrjs dperrjs 

p^epr] ovx rjKiara 8et <j>vXdrr€iv rov vodov re /cat 

rov yvqcTiOv, orav yap ris pbrj iTTianqraL ra roiavra 

aKonelv Kal ISicorrjs Kal ttoXis, Xavddvovai x<^^ois 

T€ Kal vodoLs xpcoyu.et'ot, TTpoj o TL dv rvx^'yi' TOV- 

Tcov, ol p.ev ^lAois", ol 8e dpxovai. Kal pdXa, k^f], 

ovTws €X€i. 'Hpuv Si], rjv 8' iyco, TrdvTa ra roiavra 

B hievXa^rjriov , ws idv p,ev dpripieXels re Kal dpri- 

(j)povas CTTt roaavrrjv pLad-qcriv Kal rocravrrjv 

daKr]artv Kopioavres 7TatS€vcop,€v, rj re St/CTj '^plv 

ov pep-iperai avrrj, rrjV re ttoXlv Kal TToXiretav 

aa)aop,ev, dXXolovs 8e dyovres eVi ravra rdvavria 



" Cf. 548 E, Lysis 206 c, Euthyd. 274 c, 304 c, and Vol. I. 
p. 515, on 475 d. 

* Cf. supra 382 a-b-c. 

« Cf. Laws 819 D, Rep. 372 d, Politicus 2QQ c, and my note 
in Class. Phil. xii. (1917) pp. 308-310. Cf. too the proverbial 
Cs yvoit). Laches 196 d and Rivals 134 a ; and Apelt's 
emendation of Cratyl. 393 c, Progr. Jena, 1905, p. 19. 

" Cf. 487 A and Vol. I. p. 261, note c on 402 c. The 
cardinal virtues are not rigidly fixed in Plato. Cf. on 427 e, 
Vol, I. p. 346. 
212 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

of listening* or inquiring, but in all such matters hates 
work. And he too is lame whose industry is one- 
sided in the reverse way." " Most true," he said. / 
"Like^vise in respect of truth," I said," we shall Ij 
regard as maimed in precisely the same way the soul 
that hates the voluntary lie and is troubled by it in 
its o-wn self and greatly angered by it in others, but 
cheerfully accepts the involuntary falsehood ^ and is 
not distressed when con\'icted of lack of knowledge, 
but wallows in the mud of ignorance as insensitively 
as a pig.* " " By all means," he said. " And with 
reference to sobriety," said I, " and braverj- and 
loftiness of souH and all the parts of virtue,* we 
must especially be on our guard to distinguish the 
base-born from the true-born. For when the know- 
ledge necessary to make such discriminations is lack- 
ing in indi\idual or state, they unawares employ at 
random ^ for any of these purposes the crippled and 
base-bom natiu-es, as their friends or rulers." " It 
is so indeed," he said. " But we," I said, " must be 
on our guard in all such cases, since, if we bring men 
sound of limb and mind to so great a study and so 
severe a traim'ng, justice herself will have no fault 
to find" with us, and we shall preserve the state and 
our poUty. But, if we introduce into it the other sort, 

' Plato is using ordinary language and not troubling him- 
self with the problem of Protag. 329 d {}Vhat Plato Said, 
p. 497) and Laics 633 a {What Plato Said, p. 624). Cf. also 
on 533 D. 

^ irpds o Ti hv ri-x^o-t : lit. " for whatsoever they happen to of 
these (services)." Cf. Syinp. 181b, Prof. 353 a, Crito 44 d 
and 45 d, Gorg. 522 c, Ixtics 656 c, R^p. 332 b, 561 d, Dem. 
iv. 46, Isoc. Panatfi. 25, 74, 239, Aristot. Met. 1013 a 6. 

' Cf. supra 487 a. For SIky] cf. Hirzel, Dike, Themis und 
Verwandtes, p. 116. 

213 



PLATO 

Trdvra Kal Trpd^ofxev /cat (f>iXoao(f)iag en TrXeico 

yeXcoTa KaravrXrjaojxev . Al(j)(p6v /xeVr' ai' etr], 

rj S' OS. Hdvu fxev ovv, eiTTov yeXoZov S' eycoye 

Kal iv TO) rrapovTi eot/ca rradetv. To ttoZov; €^77. 

C ^EiTreXadojJLTjv, -qv §' iyo), on iTral^ofxev, Kal fxdXXov 

ivreivdiievog eiTTOv. Xeycov yap dfxa e^Xet/ja rrpos 

^iXoao^lav y Kal lhd)v 7Tpo7T€7rrjXaKiafji€vqv dva^LOis 

I dyavaKTT^aas /not Sokco /cat warrep dvp-wdels rots 

I alriois (TTTOvSaLorepov el-netv d elrrov. Ov fxd tov 

)At", ecf)^], ovKovv a)s y cpol aKpoaTrj. 'AAA' coj 
eaot, -^v 8' iyd), p-qropi. roSe Se pLi] iTTiXavdavco- 
fxeOa, on iv jxev rfj Trporepa eKXoyfj vpea^vras 
e^eXeyofxev, iv 8e ravrr] ovk iyxcopijcTet,' ^oXojvl 
D yap ou TTeiareov, <bs yrjpdaKOiv ns ttoAAo, Svvaros 
pLav9dv€LV, aAA' tjttov rj rpix^tv, vicov 8e Trdvres 
ol p,€ydXoL Kal ol ttoXXoI ttovol. 'AvdyKT], e(f)r). 

XVI. Ta fxev roLvvv Xoytop^cov re Kal yecu- 
fierpicov Kal 7Tdar]s rrjs rrpoTraiheLas, rjv rrjs 8ta- 
XeKTiKrjs Set TrpoTraLdevdrjvai, Tracalv ovcri XPV 
Trpo^dXXeiv, ov^ d)S ewavayKes piaOeiv to a)(rjfj.a 
rrjs SiSaxrjs TTOiovpiivovs. Tt 87^; "On, rjv 8' iycv, 
E ovSev p.ddripLa p^erd hovXeias rov iXevdepov xprj 



° KaravrX-rjcro/xei' : cf. 344 D. 

* Jest and earnest are never far apart in Plato. Fabling 
about justice is an old man's game. Laws 685 a, 769 a. Life 
itself is best treated as play, Laws 803 c. Science in Tim. 
59 D is iraiSid, like literature in the Phaedrus 276 d-e, ibid. 
278 B. Cf. Friedlander, Platon, i. pp. 38 and 160, and What 
Plato Said, pp. 553 and 601. 

" For similar self-checks cf. Laws 804 b, 832 b, 907 b-c, 
Phaedr. 260 d, 269 b. For eureiyd/j.evos cf. Blaydes on Aristoph. 
Clouds 969. 

214 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

the outcome will be just the opposite, and we shall 
pour a still greater flood" of ridicule upon philosophy." 
" That would indeed be shameful," he said. " Most 
certainly," said I ; " but here again I am making 
myself a little ridiculous." " In what way ? " "I 
forgot," said I, "that we were jesting,* and I spoke 
with too great intensity." For, while speaking, I 
turned my eyes upon philosophy ,<* and when I saw 
how she is undeservedly reviled, I was revolted, and, 
as if in anger, spoke too earnestly to those who are 
in fault." " No, by Zeus, not too earnestly for me* as 
a hearer." " But too much so for me as a speaker," 
I said. " But this we must not forget, that in our 
former selection we chose old men, but in this one 
that will not do. For we must not take Solon's ^ word 
for it that growing old a man is able to learn many 
things. He is less able to do that than to run a race. 
To the young^ belong all heavy and frequent labours." 
" Necessarily," he said. 

XVI. " Now, all this study of reckoning and geo- 
metry and all the preliminary studies that are indis- 
pensable preparation for dialectics must be presented 
to them while still young, not in the form of compulsory 
instruction.'' " " Why so ? " " Because," said I, " a 
free soul ought not to pursue any study slavishly ; for 

"* Cf. Isoc. Bunris 49. Whatever the difBculties of the 
chronology it is hard to believe that this is not one of Isocrates' 
many endeavours to imitate Platonic effects. 

• Cf. Soph. 226 c, Sophocles, Ajax 397. 

•^ yiipdffKw 5' dei iroXXa diSacTKOnevos, " I grow old ever learn- 
ing many things." Cf. Laches 188 a-b : Otto, p. 317. 

» Cf. Thea^t. 146 b. This has been misquoted to the effect 
that Plato said the young are the best philosophers. 

* This and vai^oi'Ta^ below (537 a) anticipate much modem 
kindergarten rhetoric 

215 



PLATO 

ixavddveiv. ol [xev yap rod aojfxaTos ttovoi ^ta 
7TOVovfjL€voi x^^P°^ ovhkv TO acDjua aTTGpydt,ovrai, 
iftvxfj ^^ jStaiov ovSev e^jxovov fiddr^fxa. 'AX-qdi], 
€(^7). Mr] roivvv ^ia, elnov, a> dptare, rovs TratSa? 
5^7 €V TOts" p.adrjpiaaLV dAAa Trait^ovTas Tp€(f)e, Iva /cat 
' IxdWov olos T fjs Kadopdv i(f)^ o eKaarros tt€^vk€v. 
*'E;^ei o Ae'yei?, ^4*^], Xoyov. Ovkovv /jiVT^fjioveveis, 
Tjv 8' iyo), on /cai els rov Tr6\ep.ov e^a/ief rovs 
rraZhas elvai aKreov errt rajv ittttcov decopovs, xal 
idv 7TOV dcr<^aAe? i^, TTpoaaKreov eyyvs koL yev- 
areov atpt^aros, cooTrep rovs OKvXaKas ; M.dfxv7]fxaL, 
€<f>r}. Et' TTttcrt St] rovroLs, '^v 8' eyco. Tots' re 
TTOvois Kal jxadn^fiaai Kal (f)6^ois, os dv ivrpe^e- 
araros del (f)aivT]rai, els dpidpLov riva iyKpireov. 
J3 'Ep" TtVi, e(f)r}, 7)Xi.KLa; 'HviKa, rjv S' eyco, rdv 
dvayKaiwv yvfivaalcov fiedievrai. oSros yap 6 
Xpovos, edv re hvo idv re rpia errj yiyvrjraL, 
dhvvaros ri dXXo Trpd^ai. kottoi yap Kal vrrvoi. 
jxaOrjp^aai TroAe/xtof Kal ajxa fila Kal avrrj ratv 
pdadvcov ovk eXaxicrrrj, ris eKaaros ev rots yvfx- 
vaaiois (^aveZrai. Ylcjs ydp ovk; e(f)r]. Merd 
Br) rovrov rdv xpovov, ■^v S' eycv, e/c rdjv eiKoai- 



" Newman, Introd. Aristot. Pol. 358, says Aristotle rejects 
this distinction, Pol. 1338 b 40 j"^xP' f^^" 7«P '>i^V^ Koixporepa 
yv/u,vdcna TrpoaoLCtTiov, riqv jSiaiov Tpocprji' /cat ro^s irpbs dvayKiju 
irovovi aTreipyovras, 'iva fj.TjBeu ifitrbSiov rj Trpbs rriv aft^-qcnv. 

^ Cf. 424 E-425 A, Laws 819 b-c, 643 b-d, 797 a-b, Polit. 
308 D. 

Cf. the naive statement in Colvin and Bagley, Human 

216 



f 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

while bodily labours " performed under constraint do 
not harm the body, nothing that is learned under com- 
pulsion stays with the mind." " True," he said. " Do 
not, then, my friend, keep children to their studies 
by compulsion but by play.* That will also better 
enable you to discern the natural capacities of each." 
"There is reason in that," he said. "And do you not 
remember," I said, " that we also declared*' that we 
must conduct the children to war on horseback to be 
spectators, and wherever it may be safe, bring them 
to the front and give them a taste of blood as we do 
with whelps ? " "I do remember." " And those who 
as time goes on show the most facility in all these toils 
and studies and alarms are to be selected and enrolled 
on a list.** " "At what age ? " he said. " When they 
are released from their prescribed gymnastics. For 
that period, whether it be two or three years, incapaci- 
tates them for other occupations.* For great fatigue 
and much sleep are the foes of study, and moreover 
one of our tests of them, and not the least, vriW be 
their beha\-iour in their physical exercises.-^ " " Surely 
it is," he said. " After this period," I said, " those 
who are given preference from the twenty-year class 

Behaviour, p. 41 : " The discovery [sic /] by Karl Groos that 
play was actually a preparation for the business of later life 
was almost revolutionary from the standpoint of educational 
theorv and practice." 

' Cf. supra 467, Vol. I. pp. 485-487. 

<* e-fKpiTiov : cf. 413 d, 377 c, 486 d, Laics 802 b, 820 d, 
936 A, 953 A. 

* Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1339 a 7 f . &/xa yap tt/ re Stavoiq. Kal T<fi 
ffwfjuiTi diairovelv ov del, etc.; Plut. De Ed. Puer. 11, De 
Tu4nda San. c. 25, quoted by Newman, Aristot. Pol. i. p. 
359, are irrelevant to this passage, but could be referred to 
the balancing of music and gymnastics in 410-412. 

' Cf. Laws 829 b-c. 

217 



PLATO 

I CTcov ol TTpoKpidivTes TLjxdg re fxeil,ovs tcov dXXcov 

C oiaovTai, TO. re ;^uS7^v nadTJfiaTa TTaialv iv rfj 
TratSeto. yevojxeva tovtols cwvaKriov els gvvoiJjlv 
OLK€LOT7]ros aAAi^Aoii' rix)v fiadrjfxaTcov Kal rrjs rov 
ovTOs (fivaecos. ^lovq yovv, elirev, -f] TOtavrrj 

\ fiddrjaLs ^e^aios iv ols dv iyyevrjTai. Kal fieyLaTr) 
ye, r)v 8 iy<i>, netpa SiaXeKTiK-fjs ^vaeco? Kal fi-^' 
o jxev yap ovvotttlkos hiaXeKriKos , 6 Se iirj ov. 
"Rvvolopiai, rj S' 6s. Taura toivvv, rjv 8' iyco, 

D SeTyaei ere eTTtaKoirovvra, 61 dv fidXiara tolovtol 
iv avTots cocrt Kal fjLOVLfioi puev iv fjbad-qfxacri, fjLo- 
vijJLOt 8 iv TToXipup Kal rols dXXoLS voixlfiois, 
TOVTOVS av, eireihav rd rpidKovra errj iK^aivojaiv , 

iK TCOV TTpOKplTlOV 7TpOKpivdfjL€VOV fls fXCL^OVS T€ 

Tifias KadcaravaL /cat aKOTreZv, rfj rod hiaXiyeadai 
Swdfjiet ^aaavt^ovra, tis ofxp-aTCOV Kal rrjs dXXrjs 
alad-qcrecos Swards pLediip^evos ctt' avrd rd dv p.€r 
dXrjOeias livai. Kal ivravda Srj ttoXXtjs (f>vXaKrjs 

" ffvvo\piv: cf. 531 D. This thought is endlessly repeated 
by modern writers on education. Cf. Mill, Diss, and Disc. 
iv. 336 ; Bagley, Tlte Educative Process, p. 180 : " The theory 
of concentration proposed by Ziller . . . seeks to organize 
all the subject matter of instruction into a unified system, 
the various units of which shall be consciously related to one 
another in the minds of the pupils"; Haldane, The Philo- 
sophy of Humanism, p. 94 : " There was a conference attended 
by representatives of various German Universities . . . which 
took place at Hanstein, not far from Gottingen in May 1921. 
. . . The purpose of the movement is nominally the establish- 
ment of a Humanistic Faculty. But in this connexion 
' faculty ' does not mean a separate faculty of humanistic 
studies. . . . The real object is to bring these subjects into 
organic relation to one another." 
218 



I 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

will receive greater honours than the others, and they 
Anil be required to jfather the studies which they dis- 
connectedly pursued as children in their former educa- 
tion into a comprehensive survey ° of their affinities 
with one another and -with the nature of things." 
" That, at any rate," he said, " is the only instruction 
that abides with those who receive it." " And it is 
also," said I, " the chief test of the dialectical nature 
and its opposite. For he who can view things in their 
connexion is a dialectician ; he who cannot, is not." 
" I concur," he said. " With these qualities in mind," 
I said, ■' it will be your task to make a selection of 
those who manifest them best from the group who are 
steadfast in their studies and in war and in all lawful 
requirements, and when they have passed the thirtieth 
year to promote them, by a second selection from those 
preferred in the first,'' to still greater honours, and 
to prove and test them by the power of dialectic " to 
see which of them is able to disregard the eyes and 
other senses •* and go on to being itself in company \Wth 
truth. And at this point, my friend, the greatest 

C/. Alexander, Space, Time, and Deity, vol. i. p. 4 " So 
true is it that, as Plato puts it, the metaphysician is a 
'synoptical' man." Cf. also Aristot, Soph. El. 167 a 38 
Sia rb jUTj bvvaadcu. avvopav rb Tairrbv Kai rb irepov. Stenzel, 
Dialektik, p. 8, misuses the passage to support the view 
that Plato's dialectic stUl looks for unity and not for 
divisions and distinctions, as in the Sophist. Cf. also ibid. 
p. 72. 

* For the technical meaning of the word TrpoKpiTw ef. 
Latcs 753 B-D. 

' For this periphrasis cf. Phaedr. 246 d, Tim. 85 e. Cf. also 
on 509 A. 

"* The reader of Plato ought not to misunderstand this 
now. Cf. supra on 532 a, pp. 196 f., note d, and 530 b, 
p. 187, notee. 

219 



/ 



PLATO 

epyov, o) eraipe. It yiaAiara; t) o os. \jvk ev- 
E i/oet?, rjv 8' eyco, to I'w Trepl to SiaXeyeaOai KaKov 
yiyvofjLevov oaov ylyverat,; To ttoIov; 6^17. Ilapa- 
vo/xias TTOVy €(f)rjv iyco, ijjLTTLTrXavTai. Kat yuaXa, 
ecfjr]. QavfjiacrTov ovv tl otet, cIttov, rrdax^i'V av- 
Tovs, Kal ov ^vyyLyvdxJKeig ; Ylfi /xaAicTa; c^t^. 
OToz^, •^i' 8' eyoj, et Tt? V TrofioX i^alos rpacf^eniev 
7ToX\oiSs::^€v xpTjfjiauL, TroAAcp 8 6 KOI fieydXcpCjyev^ 
538 /cat \KoXap, ttoXXoXs, dvr]p 8e yevd/xej^os' atadoLTO, 
OTi ov TOVTCov cCTTi TcDi^ (f)aa KovTixiv yovccov, TOVS 
Se Tip ovTL yewqaavras prj evpoi, tovtov ep^ets" 
fxavTCvaaadai, tto)? dv StaredeLrj vpos re tovs ko- 
XaKas Kai npos tovs v-no^aXopievovs eV cKeiva) t€ 
Tw xpovip, a> ovK fjhei Ta Trepl Trjs VTTo^oXrjg, /cat 
ev (J) av TJSei,; rj jSouAet ipov pavTcvopevov aKovaat; 
BovXopai, ecfjr]. 

XVII. M.avT€vopai Toivvv, cIttov, pdXXov avTov 

B TLpdv dv TOP TTaTcpa Kal Trjv p-qTepa Kal Tovg 

dXXovs oIk€lovs boKovvTas "^ TOVS KoXaKevovTas , 

Kal rJTTOv pkv dv TrepuSelv ivSeeis Tivos, "^ttov Be 

" Plato returns to an idea suggested in 498 a, and warns 
against the mental confusion and moral unsettlement that 
result from premature criticism of life by undisciplined minds. 
In the terminology of modern education, he would not 
encourage students to discuss the validity of the Ten Com- 
mandments and the Constitution of the United States before 
they could spell, construe, cipher, and had learned to dis- 
tinguish an undistributed middle term from a petitio 
principii. Cf. Phaedo 89 d-e. 

We need not suppose with Grote and others that this 
involves any " reaction " or violent change of the opinion he 
held when he ^\Tote the minor dialogues that portray such 
discussions. In fact, the still later Sophist, 230 b-c-d, is more 
friendly to youthful dialectics. 

Whatever the eifect of the practice of Socrates or the 

220 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

care" is requisite." " How so ? " he said. " Do you 
not note," said I, " how great is the harm caused by 
our present treatment of dialectics ? " '' WTiat is 
that ? " he said. " Its practitioners are infected with 
lawlessness. '' " " They are indeed." " Do you sup- 
pose,"! said, "that there is anything surprising in this 
state of mind, and do you not think it pardonable '^ ? " 
" In what way, pray ? " he said. " Their case," said 
I, " resembles that of a supposititious son reareduiQ 
abundant wealthand a great and numerous" family 
amid many fl^erersp who on arriving at manhood 
should become aware that he is not the child of 
those who call themselves his parents, and should 
not be able to find his true father and mother. 
Can you di\ine what would be his feehngs towards 
the flatterers and his supposed parents in the time 
when he did not know the truth about his adoption, 
and, again, when he knew it ? Or would you hke to 
hear my surmise ? " "I would." 

XVII. " Well, then, my surmise is," I said, " that 
he would be more hkely to honour his reputed father 
and mother and other kin than the flatterers, and 
that there would be less Ukelihood of his allowing 
them to lack for anything, and that he would be less 

Sophists, Plato himself anticipates Grote's criticism in the 
Republic by representing Socrates as discoursing with in- 

?enuous vouth in a more simple and edifying stvle. Cf, 
ysis 207 d ff., Euthydem. 278 e-282 c, 288 d-290" d. Yet 
again the Charmides might be thought an exception, 

Cf. also Zeller, Phil. d. Griechen, ii. 1, p. 912, who seems 
to consider the Sophist earlier than the Republic. 

* i.e. they call all restrictions on impulses and instincts 
tjrannical conventions. Cf. Qorg. 483-484, Aristoph. Clouds, 
passim, and on nature and law cf. Vol. I. p. 116, note a, on 
359 c. 

• Cf. on 494 A, p. 43, note o, 

221 



PLATO 

TTapdvofJiov Ti BpdaaL rj elirelv els avrovs, ^rrov Se 
arreidelv ra [jbeydXa ckclvols t) rols KoXa^iv, iv cS 
Xpovcp TO dXr^des fJir) elBelrj. Ei/cds", €(f)r]. Alado- 
fj,evQy TOLvvv to ov jxavTevoiJiai av Trepl fiev tovtovs 
avelvay dv to Tip,dv re /cai airovhdt^eiv , Trepl 8e 
TOvf^ KoXaKcs eTTiTeZvai, koX Tteideadai re avToZs 
C hia^epovToyg rj npoTepov /cat ^rjv dv TJSr) /car' 
cKeivovs, ^vvovra avToZs dTrapaKaXvTTTCos, TraTpos 
Se eKeivov Kal tcov dXXcov TroLovpievcov otKeicov, el 
fXT] Trdvv evq ^vaei eTneLKrjs, jxeXeiv to p.rihiv. 
WavT* , €(f)rj, Xeyets old rrep dv yevoiTO. dXXd tttj 
TTpos Tovs aTTTOfievovs Tcbv Xoyojv auTT] (f)ep€i "q 
cIkcvv; TfjSe. eoTL ttov rjixlv SoyixaTa €k TracScov 
TTcpl SiKaicov Kal KaXd)v, iv oTs eKTedpdfXfxeda 

CJaTTCp VTTO yOVeVGL, 7T€L9apXOVVTeS T€ Kal TlfJiCOVTeS 

D avTd. "EcTTi ydp. Ovkovv Kal dXXa evavTia 
TOVTOiv iTTiTTjSevfiaTa "qSovds exovTa, a KoXaKevet 
fiev rjucov ttjv ipvx'Tjv Kal cXkcl e*^' aura, Treidei S' 
ov "Totf Kal oTf^ryvvfjieTpLovs' dAA' eKeiva Ti/Jicbai 



oTTTjryvv 
rx'tl^evvoi 



TO. iraTpia f^'tt^etvoLS Treidapxovariv. "Ectti 



" dia<l>ep6vru}S fj -R-pbrepov : cf. Phaedo 85 b. 

'' old irep hv yivoiTo is the phrase Aristotle uses to distinguish 
the truth of poetry from the facts of history. 

'^ That is the meaning. Lit. " those who laj^ hold on 
discourse." 

•* Plato's warning applies to our day no less than to his 
own. Like the proponents of ethical nihilism in Plato's 
Athens, much of our present-day literature and teaching 
questions all standards of morality and aesthetics, and con- 
fuses justice and injustice, beauty and ugliness. Its gospel 
is expressed in Mr. Oppenheim's lines : 
222 



, 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

inclined to do or say to them anything unla^v'ful, and 
less liable to disobey them in great matters than to 
disobey the flatterers — during the time when he did 
not know the truth." " It is probable," he said. 
" But when he &uifid_cmt_ih5 truth, I surmise that 
he would g^ow more remiss^ jti honour and devotion 
to them and p w^ more r e gard to the flatterers, whom 
he would heed more than before " and would hence- 
forth live by th^trTuTe7"aLSsbciating viith them openly, 
while for that former father and his adoptive kin he 
would not care at all, unless he was naturally of a 
very good disposition." " All that you say," he 
rephed, "would be Ukely to happen.* But what is the 
pertinency of this comparison to the novices of 
dialectic " ? " " It is this. We have, I take it, certain 
convictions'* from childhood about the just and the 
honourable, in which, in obedience and honour to 
them, we have been bred as children under their 
parents." " Yes, we have." " And are there not 
other practices going counter to these, that have 
pleasures attached to them and that flatter and 
soUcit our souls, but do not win over men of any 
decency ; but they continue to hold in honour the 
teachings of their fathers and obey them ? " " It is 

Let nothing bind you. 

If it is duty, away with it. 

If it is law, disobey it. 

If it is opinion, go against it. 

There is only one divinity, yourself, 

Only one goid, you. 
For the unsettling effects of dialectic ef. Phaedo 90 b ; also 
Chesterton, George Bernard Shaw, p. 249 : " There may have 
been ages so sluggish . . . that anything that woke them up 
at all was a good thing. . . . No one , . . does any good to 
our age merely by asking questions unless he can answer 
the question." Cf. also on 537 d, p. 220, note a. 

22S 



PLATO 

Tt ovv; rjv S' iyo)' orav rov ovtcos e^ovTa iXdov 
ipcoTrjfia ep-qrai, tL ecrrt ro KoKov, /cat OLTTOKpiva- 
fievov, o Tov voixoderov 7]kov€v, i^eXeyxfj o Xoyos, 
Kal TToXXaKLS Kal TToXXaxfj eXeyxcov els Bo^av 

E Kara^dXr), ws rovro ovhev fiaXXov KaXov 7] 
alaxpov, Kal irepl hiKaiov (Laavrcos Kal dyadov 
Kal a, fidXiara rjyev iv TLfxij, fxerd tovto ri oUl 
TTOiT^aeLv avTov npos avrd ripLrj? re rrepi /cai 
TTCiOapxias ; -'Amy/CT^, €(f)r), ixrjre rifidv ert ojjlolojs 
P'T]T€ ireideadai. "Orav ovv, rjv S' iycv, jx-^re Tavra 
^ff^rdfi TLfiia Kal ot/ceta, ojaTrep Trpo rov, ra re 
539 aXrjdrj fir) evplaKj), eart irpos ottolov ^lov dXXov r] 
TOV KoXaKevovra clkotcos Trpoaxiop'^aeTai,; Ovk 
eoTLV, e(f)r]. WapdvopLos hrj, olpai, So^et yeyo- 
vivai eK vop,ip,ov. *AvdyKr]. Ovkovv, €(f>r]v, ecKog 
TO irddos TOiv ovTco Xoyojv dTTrop,ev(x)v Kai, o apri 
eXeyov, TToXXrjs crvyyvcop,rjs d^iov; Kat eAeou y', 
e(f)rj. OvKouv Iva p,r] yiyvrjTai 6 eXeos ovtos rrepi 
roils rpiaKovrovras ooi, evXa^ovfievix) Travri rpomp 
rdJv Xoycjjv drrreov; Kat pdX , -q 8' 6s. Ap ovv 

B ov /uta p.€V evXd^cLa avrr) avxvr), ro firj veovs 



' The question is here personified, as the \6yos so often is, 
e.g. 503 a. Cf. What Plato Said on Protag. 361 a-b. 

* A possible allusion to the KaTa^aXKovres \6yoi of the 
sophists. Cf. Euthychm. 211 d, 288 a, Phaedo 88 c, Phileb. 
15 E and What Plato Said, p. 518, on Crito 272 b, 

« This is the moral counterpart of the intellectual scepti- 

224 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

so." " Well, then," said I, "when a man of this kind 
is met by the question," ' What is the honourable ? * 
and on his giving the answer which he learned from 
the lawgiver, the argument confutes him, and by 
many and various refutations upsets ^ his faith and 
makes him beheve that this thing is no more honour- 
able than it is base,'' and when he has had the same 
experience about the just and the good and every- 
thing that he chiefly held in esteem, how do you 
suppose that he \\i\\ conduct himself thereafter in the 
matter of respect and obedience to this traditional 
morality ? " " It is inevitable," he said, " that he 
>vill not continue to honour and obey as before." 
" And then," said I, " when he ceases to honour 
these principles and to think that they are binding 
on him,'* and cannot discover the true principles, will 
he be likely to adopt any other way of life tnan that 
which flatters his desires * ? " " He will not," he said. 
" He ^vill, then, seem to have become a rebel to law 
and convention instead of the conformer that he 
was." " Necessarily." " And is not this experience 
of those who take up dialectics in this fashion to 
be expected and, as I just now said, deserving of 
much leniency ? " " Yes, and of pity too," he said. 
" Then that we may not have to pity thus your thirty- 
year-old disciples, must you not take every pre- 
caution when you introduce them to the study of 
dialectics ? " " Yes, indeed," he said. " And is it 
not one chief safeguard not to suffer them to taste 

cism or fuaoXoyLa of Phaedo 90 c-d. Cf. What Plato Said, 
p. 531, on Phaedo 89 d. 

'* For oUela cf. supra 433 e, 443 d, and Class. Phil. xxiv. 
(1929) pp. 409-410. 

' Cf. Laws 633 e and supra 443 a-b. Others render it, 

" than the life of the flatterers (parasites)." Why not both ? 

VOL. II Q ^^ 



PLATO 

oi'Ttt? avTOJv yeveadai ;^ oljJiaL yap ore ov XeX-qOevai 
on ol [jieipaKLcrKOL, Srav to Trpcorov Xoycov yev- 
Oivrai, d)S TTaiSia avrois Karaxp<^vrai , det ei? 
avriXoyiav ;!^/3c6/xevoi, /cat fiLfjLovfievoL rovs i^eXdy- 
Xovras avTOL dXXovs iXeyxovuL, ^.'^ipovTes cuanep 
aKvXoLKLa TO) €Xk€lv tc Kul cxTTapdrTeLv ra> fAoyo) 
rovs TrXrioiov det. 'YnepchvaJs ixev oyi^ .-ifMirj , 
UvKovv orav o-q ttoAAovs p-ev avToi eAeygcoatv, vtto 

C TToXXcov 8e eXeyxdoJGL, acjiohpa Kal raxv ip-TTLTTTOvaLV 
ei? TO p^rjhev rjyeladaL (Lvrrep vpoTepov /cai e/c 
TOVTOJV Sr] avToC re Kal to oXov (f>LXooo(f)tas Trepi 
els Tovs dXXovs hia^e^X-qvTai. ^AXqdeaTara, e<f)r). 
'0 8e 8r) rrpea^vrepos, rjv 8' iyco, ttjs /xev tol- 
avT7]s pavias ovk av edeXoi pueTexeiv, tov he 
StaXeyeadai ideXovTa Kal aKOireiv rdXrjdes p,dXAov 
pip-iqaeTaL rj tov TraiSia? X^P''^ TTait,ovTa /cat 

D avriXeyovra, Kal avTos re p,eT£id)Tepos euTai Kai 
TO eTTLTrjhevpa ripicuTepov dvTL drLpborepov Troiiqaei. 
*Opd(x)Sy e<^'f]. OvKovv Kal Ta Trpoecprjpeva tovtov 
eTT* evXafieia TrdvTa 7Tj)£>€Lprjrai, to rd? (fivoeis 
Koapiiovs elvai Kal OTaaipuovs ols tis pbeTaScvaet 

" See on 498 a-b. C/. Richard of Bury, Philobihlon 
(Morley, A Miscellany, pp. 49-50) : " But the contemporaries 
of our age negligently apply a few years of ardent youth, 
burning by turns with the fire of vice ; and when they have 
attained the acumen of discerning a doubtful truth, they 
immediately become involved in extraneous business, retire, 
and say farewell to the schools of philosophy ; they sip the 
frothy must of juvenile wit over the difficulties of philosophy, 
and pour out the purified old wine with economical care." 

" Cf. Apol. 23 c, Phileb. 15 e, Xen. Mem. i. 2. 46, Isoc. 
xii. 26 and x. 6 ; also Friedlander, Platon, ii. p. 568. 

' But in another mood or from another angle this is the 
bacchic madness of philosophy which all the company in the 

226 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

of it while young ? " For I fancy you have not failed 
to observe that lads, when they first get a taste of 
disputation, misuse it as a foi-m of sport, always em- 
ploying it contentiously, and, imitating confuters, 
they themselves confute others.^ They delight like 
puppies in pulling about and tearing with words all 
who approach them." "Exceedingly sorl!- he said. 
" And when they have themselves confute many 
and been confuted by many, they quickly fall into 
a violent distrust of all that they formerly held true ; 
and the outcome is that they themselves and the 
whole business of philosophy are discredited \vith 
other men." " Most true," he said. " But an 
older man will not share this craze,'' " said I, " but 
will rather choose to imitate the one who consents 
to examine truth dialectical}}' than the one who makes 
a jest"* and a sport of mere cbiitradiction, and-^ he 
will himself be more reasonable and moderate, And 
bring credit rather tnan discredit uponTiiS'pTlfsuit." 
" Right," he said. " And were not all our preceding 
statements made with a view to this precaution — 
our requirement that those permitted to taU^ part in 
such discussions must have orderly and stable natures, 

Symposium have shared, 218 a-b. C/. also Phaedr. 245 b-c, 
249 c-E, Sophist 216 d, Phileb. 15 d-e, and What Plato 
Said, p. 493, on Praia ff. 317 d-e. 

•* Cf. Gorg. 500 b-c. Yet the prevailing seriousness of 
Plato's own thought does not excluae touches of humour and 
irony, and he vainly warns the modern reader to distinguish 
between jest and earnest in the drama of disputation in his 
dialogues. Many misinterpretations of Plato's thought are 
due to the failure to heed this warning. Cf. e.g. Uorgias 
474 A {What Plato Said, p. 504), which Robin, L'Annee 
Philos. xxi. p. 29, and others miss. Rep. 376 b, Symp. 196 c, 
Protag. 339 f., Theaet. 157 a-b, 160 b, 165 b, and passim. 
Cf. also on 536 c, p. 214, note 6. 

227 



PLATO 

Twv Xoyoyv, /cat iit] cos vvv 6 rv)((x)v koI ovhev 
rrpoaT^Kcov epx^rai ctt' avTo; Udvv fxkv ovv, €(f)r]. 
XVIII. 'ApKet S-q €7rt Xoycov fieraX-q^ei ixetvai 
evheXex(x>s kol ^vvtovcjs, firjSev dXXo TrpdrTovri, 
aXX dvTL(JTp6(f>cos yvpivat,opLevoi rots Trepl to aatfjLa 
E yvfjLvaaioLs, err] hiTrXdaia r) rore; "E^, ^4^1 > "f) 
rerrapa Xeyeis; ^AfieXei, €L7rov, rrevre des. fxerd 
yap Tovro Kara^i^acrreoi, eaovrai aoi els to 
(jTT'qXaiov TToXiv eKelvo, Koi dvayKaoTeoL apx^LV 
TCI re TTepl tov noXeixov /cat oaat vewu dp)(ai, Iva 
fXTjS^ ifiTreipLa vaTepaJcrt TcJbv dXXoiv /cat eVt Koi 
eV TOVTOLs ^acravicrreot,, el epLfievovaLV eXKOfxevot, 
540 TravTa^oae tJ rt /cat TrapaKiv^crovaLv . ^povov Se, 
■^ 8' OS", TToaov TOVTOV Tid'qs i IlevTe/catSe/ca eT7], 
rjv S' eyo). yevopuevcov Se TrevTrjKOVTOVTWV tovs 
SiaacodevTas /cat dpiaTevaamas TrdvTa TrdvTrj ev 
epyoLS re /cat eTTidT'qfiais irpos TeXos rjSr) aKTeov, 
Kal dvayKaoTeov dvaKXivavTas ttjv ttjs ^^XV^ 
avyrjv els avTo aTrojSAei/rat to Trdot (f)djs Trapexov, 

" For the idiom firj ws vvv etc. cf. supra on 410 b ovx 
ibairep; also 610 D, Gorff. 522 a, Symp. 179 e, 189 c, Epist. 
vii. 333 A, Aristoph. Knights 784, Eurip. Bacchae 929, II. 
xLx. 403, Od. xxiv. 199, xxi. 427, Dem. iv. 34, Aristot. Dean. 
414 a 22. 

* It is very naive of modern commentators to cavil at the 
precise time allotted to dialectic, and still more so to infer 
that there was not much to say about the ideas. Dialectic 
was not exclusively or mainly concerned with the meta- 
physics of the ideas. It was the development of the reason- 
ing powers by rational discussion. 

« Cf. 519 c if., pp. 139-145. 

<* Xen. Cyrop. i. 2. 13 seems to copy this. Cf. on 484 d. 

S28 



\ 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

instead of the present practice " of admitting to it any 
chance and unsuitable applicant? " "By all means," 
he said. 

XVIII. " Is it enough, then, to devote to the con- 
tinuous and strenuous study of dialectics undisturbed 
by anything else, as in the corresponding discipline 
in bodily exercises, twice as many years as were 
allotted to that ? " " Do you mean six or four ? " he 
said. " Well," I said, " set it down as five.^ For 
after that you will have to send them down into the 
cave " again, and compel them to hold commands in 
war and the other offices suitable to youth, so that they 
may not fall short of the other type in experience "* 
either. And in these offices, too, they are to be tested 
to see whether they will remain steadfast under 
diverse sohcitations or whether they will flinch and 
swerve.* " " How much time do you allow for that ? " 
he said. " Fifteen years," said I, " and at the age 
of fifty ^ those who have survived the tests and ap- 
proved themselves altogether the best in every task 
and form of knowledge must be brought at last to the 
goal. We shall require them to turn upwards the 
vision of their souls ' and fix their gaze on that which 
sheds light on all, and when they have thus beheld 

Critics of Plato frequently overlook the fact that he in- 
sisted on practical experience in the training of his rulers. 
Newman, Aristot. Pol. i. p. 5, points out that this experience 
takes the place of special training in political science. 

* Cf. iivoKLvrjaavT, Aristoph. Frogs 643. 

' An eminent scholar quaintly infers that Plato could not 
have written this page before he himself was fifty years old. 

' Plato having made his practical meaning quite clear 
feels that he can safely permit himself the short cut of 
rhetoric and symbolism in summing it up. He reckoned 
without Neoplatonists ancient and modern. Cf. also on 
519 B, p. 138, note a. 

229 



PLATO 

Kal ISovras to dyadov avro, TiapaheiyiiarL XP^' 
jjievovs eKeLvcp, Kal ttoXlv Kal iSicoras Kai, eavrovs 

B KoafJLeZv rov eTriXonrov ^iov ev /xepet eKaaTovs, ro 
fjiev TToXi) rrpos (f)LXoao<f>ia htarpi^ovras, orav Se 
TO fxepos 'fJK-rj, TTpos TToXiriKols iTTLTaXaiTTCopovvras 
/cat dpxovTag eKaarovs rrjs TToXecos evcKa, ovx ojs 
KaXov TL aAA' CO? dvayKalov Trpdrrovras, Kat 
OVTCOS dXXovs del TraiSevcravTas tolovtovs, ovtl- 
KaToXiTTovTas Trfs TToXeojs (j)vXaKas, els fiaKapcov 
vrjaovs dmovras oiKelv iJLV7]p,ela 8 avrolg /cat 

C dvalas TTjv ttoXlv h'qyioaia TTOieZv, edv /cat 17 Ilu^ta 
^vvavatpfj , 60? SaLfjLOcnv, el Se fxi], cu? evSaLfioaL re 
5I Kal delois. riay/caAou?, ^<l>fj> tovs dpxovras, a> 
Sto/cpare?, wajrep S^vSpiavTOTTOLog dTTelpyaaai. Kat 
Ta? dpxovaas ye, rjv 8' eyco, o) VXavKCov jxrjSev 
yap Ti o'lov lie Trepl dv^poiv elprjKevat, fxdXXov a 
etprjKa 7) rrepl yvvaiKchv , oaai dv avrdJv t/cavat ras 
<f)va€t.s eyyiyvctivrai. 'Op^cD?, e^^, eiTrep Xaa ye 
TTavra tols di>SpdaL KOLVcovqaovaiv, d)S hir^Xdopiev . 

D Tt ovv; e^r]V' ^vyxojpeXre irepl rijs iroXews re Kal 
TToAtreta? fxrj TravraTracnv rjfJLds ei3;i^a? elprjKevai, 
dXXd x^^^'^^ P'^v, hvvard he Trrj, Kal ovk dXXr] i] 

" Cf. supra 500 d-e. For Trapddeiy/m cf. 592 b and What 
Plato Said, p. 458, on Euthyphro 6 e, and p. 599, on Polit. 
277 D. 

>> Cf. 520 D, " Cf. 347 c-D, 520 e. 

"* Plato's guardians, unlike Athenian statesmen, could 
train their successors. Cf. Protag. 319 e-320 b, Meno 99 b. 
Also AWovs iroielv Meno 100 a, Gorg. 449 b, 455 c, Euthyph. 
3 c, Phaedr. 266 c, 268 b, Symp. 196 e, Protag. 348 e, Isoc. 
Demon. 3, Panath. 28, Soph. 13, Antid. 204, Xen. Oecon. 15. 
10, and iraiSeveiv avdptJbwovs, generally used of the sophists, 
Gorg. 519 e, Protag. 317 b, Euthyd. 306 e. Laches 186 d. 
Rep. 600 c 
230 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

the good itself they shall use it as a pattern " for the 
right ordering of the state and the citizens and them- 
selves throughout the remainder of their lives, each 
in his turn,^ devoting the greater part of their time to 
the study of philosophy, but when the turn comes for 
each, toiUng in the service of the state and holding 
office for the cit)''s sake, regarding the task not as 
a fine thing but a necessity " ; and so, when each 
generation has educated others ^ like themselves to 
take their place as guardians of the state, they shall 
depart to the Islands of the Blest * and there dwell. 
And the state shall establish public memorials ^ and 
sacrifices for them as to divinities if the Pythian oracle 
approves^ or, if not, as to divine and godhke men.'' " 
" A most beautiful finish, Socrates, you have put upon 
your rulers, as if you were a statuary.* " " And on 
the women •' too, Glaucon," said I ; " for you must not 
suppose that my words apply to the men more than 
to all women who arise among them endowed ^^•ith 
the requisite qualities." " That is right," he said, 
" if they are to share equally in all things with the 
men as we laid it do\vn." " Well, then," said I, " do 
you admit that our notion of the state and its polity 
is not altogether a day-dream ,*= but that though it is 
difficult,' it is in a way possible "» and in no other way 

' Cf. p. 139, note d. Plato checks himself in mid-flight and 
wLstfully smiles at his own idealism. Cf. on 536 b-c, also 
540 c and 509 c. Frutiger, Mythes de Platon, p. 170. 

f Cf. Symp. 209 e, 

» For this caution cf. 461 e and Vol. I. p. 344, note c, on 
437 c. 

* Plato plays on the words daifiuv and evdalfiuv. Cf. also 
Crat. 398 b-c. * Cf. 361 d. * Lit. "female rulers." 

* Cf. on 450 D and 499 c. ' Cf. 499 d. 

*• Cf. What Plato Said, p. 564 on R^. 473 b-e, and siipra 
p. 05, note h, on 499 d. 



PLATO 

etprjTai, orav ol cos dArjdojs (j)i\6uo(f>oi Swdarai, rj 
irXeiovs ^ els, ev vroAei yevofxevoi riov /nev vvv 
Tifiiov KaTa(f)povT^aojaLv, rjyrjadiJievot dveX^vQepovs 
elvac Kal ovSevog d^iag, to 8e dpdov nepl TrXeiarov 
E TTOLrjadpievoi /cat rds dno tovtov rifids, pLeyiarov 
Se Kal dvayKaioTarov to SiKaiov, /cat tovtco or] 
V7r7]peTOVvTes re /cat av^ovTes avTo biaaKevo)- 
prjacovrai ttjv iavTcbv iroXiv; Ilais'; e^^. Oaot 
fxev dv, rjv 8' eyoj, irpea^vTepoL Tvyxdvcoai Se/cercDi/ 
641 iv TTJ TToAet, rrdvTas eKTrefUpcoaiv els tovs aypovs, 
Tovs Se TTatSa? aurcDv vrapaXa^ovTes cktos tu)v 
vvv rjdwv, d /cat ol yovfjs exovai, dpeifjojvTai iv tols 
a^eTepois Tporrois /cat vofxois, ovglv otots ot- 
eXrjXvdaijiev totc- /cat ovto) Tdxt-crTa re /cat paaTa 
TToXiv T€ /cat TToXiTelav, TJv eXeyofiev, /caraaraaar 
avTT^v T€ evhaLpLovrjcreiv /cat to edvos iv d) av 
B iyyevTjTai TrXetOTa ovqaeLv; WoXv y , 'i^f]- /cat 
to? dv yivoiTO, etirep TTore yiyvoLTO, So/cet? /xot, oj 
HcoKpaTes, ev elprjKevai. Ovkovv dhrjv -qSr], eliTOV 
iyco, exovaiv -qfjuZv ol Aoyot Trepi re ttjs ttoXccos 
TavT-qs /cat tov ofioLov TavTrj dvhpos; BrjXos yap ttov 
/cat ovTos, olov (f)t](70{jiev Selv avTov etvai. Ai]Xos, 
€<f>rj' Kal 0776/0 ipoiTas, SoKct /xot t4Xos ex^i'V. 



' Cf. 473 c-D, 499 b-c. 

" Cf. supra 521 b, 516 c-d. 

« Tb opddv: cf. Theaet. 171 c, Meno 99 a. 

^ This is another of the passages in which Plato seems to 
lend support to revolutionaries. Cf. supra p. 71, note g. It 
is what the Soviets are said to be doing. Lowell points out 
that it is what actually happened in the New England of 
16.S0-1660. 

Cf. Laws 752 c, where it is said that the children would 
accept the new laws if the parents would not. Cf. supra 

Sg2 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VII 

than that described — when genuine philosophers,* 
many or one, becoming masters of the state scorn * 
the present honours, regarding them as ilhberal and 
worthless, but prize the right" and the honours that 
come from that above all things, and regarding 
justice as the chief and the one indispensable thing, 
in the service and maintenance of that reorganize and 
administer their city ? " " In what way ? " he said. 
" All inhabitants above the age often," I said, " they 
will send out into the fields, and they will take over 
the children,^ remove them from the manners and 
habits of their parents, and bring them up in their 
own customs and laws which nmiII be such as we have 
described. This is the speediest and easiest way 
in which such a city and constitution as we have por- 
trayed could be established and prosper and bring 
most benefit to the people among whom it arises." 
" Much the easiest," he said, " and I think you have 
well explained the manner of its realization if it should 
ever be realized." "Then," said I, "have we not now 
said enough * about this state and the corresponding 
type of man — for it is evident what our conception of 
him will be?" "It is evident," he said, "and, to 
answer your question, I think we have finished." 

41 5 D, and also What Plato Said, p. 625, on Laws 644 a and 
p. 638, on 813 D. 

There is some confusion in this passage between the 
inauguration and the normal conduct of the ideal state, and 
VVilamowitz, Platon, i. p. 439 calls the idea " ein hingewor- 
fener Einfall." But Plato always held that the reformer 
must have or make a clean slate. Cf. 501 a. Laws 733 e. 
And he constantly emphasizes the supreme importance of 
education; Rep. 377 a-b, 423 e, 416 c. Laws 641 b, 644 a-b, 
752 c, 765 E-766 a, 788 c, 804 d. 

For Tra^aXttiSoiTes cf. Phaedo 82 e vapixKaSovca. 

• Cf. 535 A. 



H 

543 I. Eiev ravra fiev Srj (vjJLoXoyrjTai, co TXavKcov, 
rrj fieXXovcrr) aKptos oIkclv TroAet kolvols fJ-^v 
yvvaiKag, kolvovs 8e TraiSa? elvai, Kal Trdaav 
TTaiheiav, cbcravTCOS 8e to. iTnrrjhevixara KOLva ev 
TToXeficp re Kal elpt^vj), ^aaiXeag Se avrcov elvaL 
Tous" iv (f)LXoao(f)ia re /cat npog tov TToXepiov yeyo- 
voras apiarovs. 'Q/xoAoyTjrat, e^^y. Kai p/riv Kat 
B TttSe ^vvexijop'^aajj.ev, cos, orav 8r] Karaarojaiv ot 
dpxovres, dyovres rovs arpaTiajras KaroiKiovaiv 
els olK-qaeis olas TTpoetTTOfxev, tSuov p,€v ovhev 
ovhevl ixovuas, kolvols 8e Trdai- rrpos Se rat? 
TOLavraLs olKTjaeoL Kal rds KT7]aeis, et pLvqpLoveveis , 
hiOipLoXoyrjadpLeOd ttov otat eaovrai avrols. 'AAAa 
fivr][xov€va>, €(f)rj, on ye ovSev ovSeva cZ»o/x6^a SeZv 
KeKTTJadai Sv vvv ol aXXoi, coarrep he ddXrjrds re 
C TToXepLov Kal (f)vXaKas, pnadov ri]s (f)vXaKrjs hexo- 
pievovs els evLavTOV rrjv els Tavra Tpo(f)rjv irapa row 
dXXcov, avrdjv re Selv Kal rrjs dXXrjs 7r6Xea>s 

" Strictly speaking, this applies only to the guardians, 
but cf. Laws 739 c ff. Aristotle, Pol. 1261 a 6 and 1263 a 
41, like many subsequent commentators, misses the point. 

" Cf. supra 445 d and What Plato Said, p. 539, on 3Ienex. 
238 c-D. 

" So Jowett. Adam ad loc. insists that the genitive is 
partitive, " those of their number are to be kings." 
234, 



BOOK VIII 

I. " Very good. We are agreed then, Glaucon, 
that the state which is to achieve the height of good 
government must have community " of wives and 
children and all education, and also that the pursuits 
of men and women must be the same in peace and 
war, and that the rulers or kings '' over them '^ are to be 
those who ha\ e approved themselves the best in both 
war and philosophy." " We are agreed," he said. 
"And we further granted this, that when the rulers are 
established in office they shall conduct these soldiers 
and settle them in habitations ^ such as we described, 
that have nothing private for anybody but are 
common for all, and in addition to such habitations 
we agreed, if you remember, what should be the 
nature of their possessions.* " " VlTiy, yes, I re- 
member," he said, " that we thought it right that 
none of them should have anything that ordinary men ^ 
now possess, but that, being as it were athletes ' of 
war and guardians, they should receive from the others 
as pay * for their guardianship each year their yearly 
sustenance, and devote their entire attention to the 

<« Cf. 415 E, ' Cf. 416 c. 

' Cf. 420 A. 

" Cf. on 403 E and 521 d. Polyb. i. 6. 6 adXyrral yeyovdret 
a\7]divol tQv Kara rbv ir6\efiOi> ifTfWV. 
* Cf. 416 E. 

335 



PLATO 

eTnjjLeXelad ai. ^OpdaJs, €(f)r]v, Aeyei?. aAA aye, 
€7Tei8r] tovt' dTrereXeaafjiev , dvafxvqadcbiJiev, ttoQcv 
Sevpo i^erpaTTO/xeda, Iva ttoXlv ttjv avrrjv tcopLev. 
Ov ^(aXeTTOv, €cf)r], crx^Bov yap, Kaddnep vvv, cog 

Sl€Xr]Xvdo)S TTepl TTJS TToXeCOS TOVS XoyOVS eTTOLOV 

Xeycov, (xJS dyadrjv fiev ttjv TOLavriqVy oiav Tore 

D hiriXdes, TLdeirjs ttoXlv, kol dvSpa tov eKeivrj o/xotov, 

/cat ravra, (hs eoiKas, KaXXico ert ex<J^v eiTTelv ttoXlv 

544 re koI dvSpa- dAA' ovv Srj rds a'AAa? rjfiapT7]iJievas 

eAeyes", et avrr] opdiq. tcov 8e Xoittcov 7ToXi,TeLcov 

e(f)r](Tda, to? fJLvrjp^ovevco, rerrapa 61817 eluat, cbv /cat 

nepL Xoyov d^iov elf] ex^tv /cat tSeti^ avTcijv ra 

d/xapTT^/xara /cat rovs e/ceiVat? av d/iotous", i-va 

irdvras avrovs ISovres /cat opboXoyqaafxevot, tov 

dpiOTOV /cat TOV KaKLOTOv dvSpa eTTtCT/ce^at/xe^a, et 

d dpiGTOs evSaLjxoviaraTOS /cat d KaKLcrrog dOXno- 

raros rj d'AAojs" ^xot,' /cat e/xou ipofxevov, nvas 

B Aeyot? rd? rerrapas TToXiTeias, ev rovrcp vneXa^e 

YloXejJiapxds re /cat 'A^el/jiavTog, /cat outoj St) cru 



" Cf. Vol. I. p. 424, note c, and IF/ia< Plato Said, p. 640, 
on Laws 857 c. 

* Cy. 449 A-B. " Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1275 b 1-2, 1289 b 9. 

<* Aristot. PoL 1291-1292 censures the limitation to four. 
But cf. supra, Introd. p. xlv. Cf. Laws 693 d, where only two 
mother-forms of government are mentioned, monarchy and 
democracy, with Aristot. Pol. 1301 b 40 drj/uios Kal oXijapxi-"- 
Cf. also Eth. Nic. 1160 a 31 if. The Politicus mentions 
seven (291 f., 301 f.). Isoc. Panath. 1.32-134 names three 
kinds — oligarchy, democracy, and monarchy — adding that 
others may say much more about them. See note ad lor. in 
Loeb Isocrates and Class. Phil. vol. vii. p. 91. Cf. Ilobbes, 
Leviathan 19 "Yet he that shall consider the particular 
commonwealths that have been and are in the world will not 

236 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

care of themselves and the state." " That is right,*' 
I said. " But now that we have finished this topic 
let us recall the point at which we entered on the 
digression" that has brought us here, so that we 
may proceed on our way again by the same path." 
" That is easy," he said; " for at that time, almost 
exactly as now, on the supposition that you had 
finished the description of the city, you were going 
on to say * that you assumed such a city as you 
then described and the corresponding type of man 
to be good, and that too though, as it appears, you 
had a still finer city and type of man to tell of; 
but at any rate you were saying that the others are 
aberrations,*' if this city is right. But regarding the 
other constitutions, my recollection is that you said 
there were four species'* worth speaking of* and 
observing their defects ^ and the corresponding types 
of men, in order that when we had seen them all and 
come to an agreement about the best and the worst 
man, we might determine whether the best is the 
happiest and the worst most wretched or whether 
it is otherwise.'' And when I was asking what were 
the four constitutions you had in mind, Polemarchus 
and Adeimantus thereupon broke in, and that was 
how you took up the discussion again and brought 

perhaps easily reduce them to three ... as, for example, 
elective kingdoms," etc. 

* For Siv Kai vipi \6yov d^iov ftr) cf. Laws 908 b S Kai Sia- 
Kpia^m i^ia, Laches 192 a of (coi irepi d^iov Xeyftv, Tim. 82 c iv 
yivos ivbv &\iov iirwvvijlai. Cf. also Euthydem. 279 c, Aristot. 
Pol. 1272 b 32, 1302 a 13, t)e part. an. 654 a 13, Demosth. 
V. 16, Isoc. vi. 56. and Vol. I. p. 420, note/, on 445 c. 

' For the relative followed by a demonstrative cf. also 
357 b. 

' Plato's main point again. Cf. 545 a, 484 a-b and Vol. I. 
p. xii, note d, 

237 



PLATO 

dvaXa^ojv tov Xoyov Seup' a<j>i^ai. ^Opdorara, 
eiTTOv, i[xvr]fji6v€vaas. YIolXlv toivvv, o^mrep vraAat- 
OTr\s, TTjv avrrjv Xa^rjv Trdpexe, /cat ro avTO ifiov 
ipofievov TTeipco elTrelv, aTrep t6t€ e/xeXXes Xdyeiv. 
*Edv7T€p, rjv S' eyo), Swco/xat. Kat f^rjv, i^ S' os, 
eTnOvfio) Kol avTos a/coucrai rivas eXeyeg tcls 

C rirrapas TToXirelas. Ov ;YaAe77d)S', '^v S' eyco, 
OLKovaei. eicrt yap as Xeyco, amep /cat ovofiara 
exovaiv, rj re vtto tcov TroAAcDt' eTraivov fievr) , rj Kprj- 
riKTi re /cat AaKOiVLKrj avrrj' /cat Sevrepa Kal 
Sevrepcos eTTaivovfievrj , KaXovfievrj 8' oXiyapx^a, 
avyycov yefiovaa KaKOJv TroAtreta* 7] re ravrrj 
8Ld(f>opos Kal €(f)€^fjs yiyvoixevr] Sr]p,OKparia, /cat rj 
yevvaia Sr] rvpavvls Kal TTaaa)v rovrojv 8ta- 
(f)epovaa, reraprov re Kal ea)(arov rroXeajg v6arjp,a. 

D 7] riva dXXrjv ex^is ISeav TToXireLas , rjris Kal iv 
eiSet 8ia(f)avel rivl /ceirat; Suvaffretat yap Kal 
wvTjral ^aaiXelai Kal roiavraL rives TToXirelai 
fiera^v ri rovrcov ttov elaiv, evpoi 8' dv ris avrds 

« Cf. on 572 B, p. 339, note e. 

^ Cf. Phileb, 13 d els ras o/Moias, Phaedr. 236 b, Laws 682 e, 
Aristoph, Clouds 551 (Blaydes), Knights 841, Lysist. 672. 

' Cf. What Plato Said, p. 596, on Sophist 267 d. 

^ Cf. Crito 52 e, Norlin on Isoc. Nicocles 24 (Loeb), Laws 
712 D-E, Aristot. Pol. 1265 b 32, Xen. Mem. iii. 5. 15. 

' rj . . . avTT], "ista." Cf. Midsummer Night''s Dream, 1.U4 
ad fin. and Gorg. 502 b, 452 e. 

^ Of course ironical. Cf. supra 454 a, and What Plato 
Said, p. 592, on Soph. 231 b. 

» Cf. 552 c, Protag. 322 u, Isoc. Ilel. 34, Wilamowitz on 

238 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

to this point." " " Your memory is most exact," 
I said. " A second time then, as in a wrestling- 
match, offer me the same hold,^ and when I repeat 
my question try to tell me what you were then about 
to say." " I will if I can," said I. " And indeed," 
said he, " I am eager myself to hear what four 
forms of government you meant." " There will be 
no difficulty about that," said I. " For those I mean 
are precisely those that have names '^ in common 
usage : that which the many praise,** your * Cretan 
and Spartan constitution ; and the second in place 
and in honour, that which is called ohgarchy, a con- 
stitution teeming Mith many ills, and its sequent 
counterpart and opponent, democracy ; and then the 
noble ^ tyranny surpassing them all, the fourth and 
final malady '' of a state. Can you mention any other 
type^ of government, I mean any other that con- 
stitutes a distinct species * ? For, no doubt, there are 
hereditary principalities^ and purchased^' kingships, 
and similar intermediate constitutions which one 

Eurip. Heracles 542. For the eflFect of surprise cf. Rep. 
334 A, 373 A, 555 a, Theaet. 146 a, Phileb. 46 a KaK^v and 
64 E crvfupopd. 

* iS^av : cf. Introd. p. x. 

* Cf. 445 c. For diaipave^ cf. Tim. 60 A, 67 a, Laws 634 c, 
and infra on 548 c, p. 253, note p. 

^ dwacrreiai: cf. Laws 680 B, 681 d. But the word 
usually has an invidious suggestion. See Newman on 
Aristot. Pol. 1272 b 10. Cf. ibid. 1292 b 5-10, 1293 a 31, 
1298 a 33 ; also Lysias ii. 18, where it is opposed to demo- 
cracy, Isoc. Panath. 148, where it is used of the tyranny of 
Peisistratus, ibid. 43 of Minos. Cf. Panegyr. 39 and NorJin 
on Panegyr. 105 (Loeb). Isocrates also uses it frequently 
of the power or sovereignty of Philip, Phil. 3, 6, 69, 133, 
etc. Cf. also Gorg. 492 b, Polit. 291 d. 

* Newman on Aristot. Pol. 1273 a 35 thinks that Plato 
may have been thinking of Carthage. Cf. Polyb. vi. 56. 4. 

23^ 



PLATO 

OVK iXdrrovs Trepl rovg ^ap^dpovs "^ tovs "EAAt^p'os'. 
IloAAat- yovv Kal dronoi,, ecjir], Xeyovrai. 

II. Olad^ ovv, 'qv S' iyco, OTt /cat dvdpwTTCov 
€1817 Toaavra dvdyKrj rpoTTCOV ' etvai, ocranep Kal 
TToXireioJv ; ^ otet e/c Spvog TTodev rj ck rrerpas rds 
TToXiTeias ylyveadaL, dAA' ovxl €k ra>v rjdaJv rcov 
E iv rats noXeaLV, d dv (Zanep peipavra rdXXa 
€(f>€XKvarjTaL ; OvSap,d)s eycoy* , 6^17, dXXodcv rj 
evTcvdev. Ovkovv el rd rdjv TroXecDv TreVre, /cat at 
TOiv ISlojtcov KaraGKeval ttjs i/jv)('tJs Trlvre dv elev. 
Tt fi'qv; Tov fjL€v hrj rfj dpLaroKparia opiOLOv St- 
eX7]Xv6apL€V rjST], ov dyadov re /cat hiKaiov 6p6a>s 
545 (^ttyuei' etfat, ALeXr]Xvdap,€v . ^Ap' ovv to jLterd 
TOVTo hureov tovs x^^P'^^^> '''^^ (f>iX6vLK6v re Kat 
<J)lX6tlp,ov, /card ttjv AaKOJViKTjv ecrrcDra TroAtretW, 
/cat dAiyap;\;i/cdv av /cat hrjixoKpaTiKov /cat tov 
TVpavvLKov, Lva TOV dSiKcoTaTov iSdv'Te? dvTidcopi,€v 
TO) St/catoraTO) /cat rjpuv TeXea rj aKeipLS rj, 770)5" 
TTore rj aKpaTos SLKaioavvr] rrpd? dhiKiav ttjv 
aKpaTOV ex^i' evhacpiovias re Trept tov e^ovTOS /cat 



" Plato, as often, is impatient of details, for which he was 
rebuked by Aristotle. Cf. also Tim. 57 d, 67 c, and the 
frequent leaving of minor matters to future legislators in the 
Republic and Laws, Vol. I. p. 294, note 6, on 412 b. 

^ For the correspondence of individual and state cf. also 
435 E, 445 c-D, 579 c and on 591 e. Cf. Laws 829 a, Isoc. 
Peace 120. 

" Or "stock or stone," i.e. inanimate, insensible things. 
For the quotation iK 8pv6s woOev fi iK ir^rpas cf. Odyssey 
xix. 163, //. xxii, 126 aliter, Apol. 34 d and Thompson on 
Phaedrus 21 B b ; also Stallbaum ad loc. 

^ The " mores," 435 e, 436 a. Cf. Bagehot, Physics and 
Politics, p. 206 : " A lazy nation may be changed into an 
industrious, a rich into a poor, a religious into a profane, 

240 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

could find in even greater numbers among the bar- 
barians than among the Greeks." " " Certainly many 
strange ones are reported," he said. 

11. " Are you aware, then," said I, " that there 
must be as many types of character among men as 
there are forms of government * ? Or do you suppose 
that coastitutions spring from the proverbial oak 
or rock '^ and not from the characters '^ of the citizens, 
which, as it were, by their momentum and weight 
in the scales * draw other things after them ? " 
" They could not possibly come from any other 
source," he said. " Then if the forms of government 
are five, the patterns of individual souls must be 
five also." " Surely." " Now we have abeady de- 
scribed the man corresponding to aristocracy ^ or the 
government of the best, whom we aver to be the 
truly good and just man." " We have." " Must 
we not, then, next after this, survey the inferior 
types, the man who is contentious and covetous of 
honour," corresponding to the Laconian constitution, 
and the oligarchical man in turn, and the democratic 
and the tyrant, in order that,'' after observing the most 
unjust of all, we may oppose him to the most just, 
and complete our inquiry as to the relation of pure 
justice and pure injustice in respect of the happiness 
and unhappiness of the possessor, so that we may 

as if by magic, if any single cause, though slight, or any 
combination of causes, however subtle, is strong enough to 
change the favourite and detested types of character." 

* For the metaphor cf. also 550 e and on 556 e. 

* apiaTOKparia is used by both Plato and Aristotle some- 
times technically, sometimes etymologically as the govern- 
ment of the best, whoever thev may be. Cf. 445 d, and 

Henex. 2.S8 c-d [What Plato Said, p. 539). 
» Cf. Phaedr. 256 c 1, supra 475 a, 347 b. 

* Cf. on 544 A, p. 237, note g. 

VOL. II R 241 



PLATO 

adXioTrjTos, Iva t) Qpaavfxdxco TTCiOoixevoi Stco- 
B Kcofxev ahiKtav rj rw vvv 7Tpo(f>aivofi€va} Xoyo) 
BiKaioavvrjv ; YlavroLTTacn fiev ovv, ^(f>r}, ovtco 
7TOi7]Teov. 'Ap' ovv, cScTTTep T^p^dpieda iv rals 
7ToAiTet,aLS TTporepov OKOTTeZv rd TJdrj rj iv rolg 
iSicoraLs, COS" ivapyearepov 6v, /cat vvv ovtco Trpdj- 
Tov fxev Trjv <^iAort/xov OKeTrreov TToXneiav ovofxa 
yap ovK e;^a> Xeyopevov aAAo' •^ TLfioKpariav t] 
Tifxapxi-OLV avrr]v KX-qriov irpos he Tavrrjv rov 
C TOLovTov dvSpa OKeifjofxeda, cTretra oXiyapxtav Kal 
dvSpa oXiyapxi-Kov, avOts 8e els hrip^oKpaTiav 
dno^Xeipavres deaaopieda dvhpa BrjfxoKpartKov, to 
Se reraprov els Tvpavvovp,ev7]v ttoXlv eXdovres Kal 
lSovtcs, TToXiv els TVpavvLKTjV i/fv^rju ^XeTTOvreg, 
Treipaaopeda Trepl (Lv Trpovdepueda iKavol Kpiral 
yeveadai; Kara Xoyov ye rot, dv, e(f>rj, ovrco 
yiyvoiro rj re 6ea Kal rj Kpiais. 

" In considering the progress of degeneration portrayed in 
tlie following pages, it is too often forgotten that Plato is 
describing or satirizing divergences from an ideal rather 
than an historical process. Cf. Rehm, Der Untergang Konu 
im abendlcindischen Denken, p. 11: "Plato gibt eine zum 
R^Iythos gesteigerte Naturgeschichte des Staates, so wie 
Hesiod eine als IMythos zu verstehende Natur-, d.h. Entar- 
tungsgeschichte des Menschengeschlechts gibt." Cf. Sidney 
B. Fay, on Bury, The Idea of Progress, in " Methods of Social 
Science," edited by Stuart A. Rice, p. 289 : " . . . there was 
a widely spread belief in an earlier ' golden age ' of simplicity, 
which had been followed by a degeneration and decay of 
the human race. Plato's theory of degradation set forth 
a gradual deterioration through the successive stages of 
timocracy, oligarchy, democracy and despotism. The Greek 
theory of 'cycles,' with its endless, monotonous iteration, 
excluded the possibility of permanent advance or ' progress.' " 

Kurt Singer, Platon der Grilnder, p. 141, says that the 
timocratic state reminds one of late Sparta, the democratic 

242 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

either follow the counsel of Thrasymachus and 
pursue injustice or the present argument and pursue 
justice ? " " Assuredly," he said, " that is what we 
have to do.* " " Shall we, then, as we began by ex- 
amining moral qualities in states before individuals, 
as being more manifest there, so now consider first 
the constitution based on the love of honour ? I do 
not know of any special name * for it in use. We must 
call it either timocracy" or timarchy. And then in 
connexion with this we will consider the man- of that 
type, and thereafter oligarchy and the oligarch, and 
again, fixing our eyes on democracy, we will con- 
template the democratic man ; and fourthly, after 
coming to the city ruled by a tyrant and observing 
it, we mil in turn take a look into the tyrannical soul,** 
and so try to make ourselves competent judges* of 
the question before us." " That would be at least •^ 
a systematic and consistent way of conducting the 
observation and the decision," he said. 

of Athens after Pericles, the oligarchic is related to Corinth, 
and the tyrannical has some Syracusan features. Cicero, 
T)e div. ii., uses this book of the Republic to console himself 
for the revolutions in the Roman state, and Polybias's theory 
of the natural succession of governments is derived from it, 
with modifications (Polyb. vi. 4. 6 ff. C/. vi. 9. 10 avrrj 
TToXiTeiwv dvaKVKXuiffii). Aristotle objects that in a cycle the 
ideal state should follow the tyranny. 

* Cf. on 544 c, p. 238, note b. 

* In Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1 160 a 33-34, the meaning is " the 
rule of those who possess a propertv' qualification." 

<» Cf. 577 A-B. ' • Cf. 582 a ff. 

* For the qualified assent cf. Hamlet i. i. 19 "What? is 
Horatio there? A piece of him." It is very frequent in the 
Republic, usually with -fovv. Cf. 443 d, 469 b, 476 c, 501 c, 
537 c, 584 A, 555 b, 604 d, and Vol. I. p. 30, note a, on 334 a ; 
also 460 c and 398 b, where the interlocutor adds a con- 
dition, 392 B, 405 B, 556 e, 581 b, and 487 a, where he uses 
the corrective niv oOr. 

243 



PLATO 

III. Ofc'/ae roLVVv, '^v S' iyco, TTeipiLjxeda Xeyetv, 
Tiva rpoTTOv Tiyuo/cparta yivoir* av i^ dpiaro- 
D Kpanag. r) rdSe fiev dnXovv, on irdaa TToXireia 
yaerajSaAAei e^ avrov rod exovros rds dp^d-s, orav 
€V avra> rovro) araaig iyyevrjTaL- opLOVoovvros 8e, 
Kav Trdvv oXiyov fj, dhvvarov KLvrjd7]vai, ; "Ecrrt 
yap ovTCos. Hcos ovv S'^, eiTTOv, & VXavKiov, rj 
TToXis rjpuv KLvr]6'qa€TaL, Kal Trfj araaidaovcnv ol 
eTTLKovpoi Kai OL dpxovres Trpos dXXrjXovs re Kal 
TTpos eavTovg; rj ^ovXei, oiaiTep "Ofirjpos, euxcu- 
fxeda rals Movaatg elrTelv rjixlv ottojs 8r) Trpwrov 
E ardais cfnreae, Kal (/)d)[X€v avrds rpayiKdjs cog 
TTpos TTalSas rjixas 7Tail,ovaas Kal epecrxrjXovaag, 
(Ls St] CTTTOfS^ XeyovGag, vi/jrjXoXoyovfxevas Xeyeiv; 
546 Yldjs; ^Q,Se ttcos' ;\;aAe770P' fxev Kivrjdrjvai ttoXlv 
ovroi ^vcrrdaav dXX' inel yevofxevo) rravrl (jjdopd 
ecTTLV, oi5S' rj TOLavrrj ^varaais tov drravTa jieveZ 
Xpovov, dXXd XvOrjueraL- Xvais Se i^Se. ov jjlovov 
(fiVTotg iyyeioLg, dXXd Kal iv iinyeLois ^diois cf>opd 
/cat d(f)Opia i/jux^js re /cat auijidnov yiyvovTai, orav 
TTeptrpoTTal eKaaroig kvkXcov Trepccfiopdg ^wdTrrcoai, 
^paxv^iois fxev ^paxvTTopovs, ivavriotg 8e evavrias' 



" For the idea that the state is destroyed only by factions 
in the ruHng class cf. also Laws 683 e. Cf. 465 b, Lysias 
XXV. 21, Aristot. Pol. 1305 b, 1306 a 10 6/ji,ovoovaa Si oXiyapxia. 
ovK fi'didcpOopos ^^ avTTjs, 1302 a 10, Polybius, Teubner, vol. ii. 
p. 298 (vi. 57). Newman, Aristot. Pol. i. p. 521, says that 
Aristotle "does not remark on Plato's observation . . . 
though he cannot have agreed with it." Cf. Hal6vy, Notes 
et souvenirs, p. 153 " I'histoire est la pour demontrer claire- 
ment que, depuis un siecle, nos gouvernements n'ont jamais 
et6 renvers^s que par eux-memes " ; Bergson, Les Deux 
Sources de la morale et de la religion, p. 303: "Mais 

244 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

III. " Come, then," said I, "let us try to tell in 
hat way a timocracy would arise out of an aristo- 
cracy. Or is tliis the simple and unvarj-ing rule, 
that in every form of government revolution takes 
its start from the ruling class itself,** when dissension 
arises in that, but so long as it is at one with itself, 
however small it be, innovation is impossible ? " 
" Yes, that is so." " How, then, Glaucon," I said, 
" will disturbance arise in our city, and how will our 
helpers and rulers fall out and be at odds ^^•ith one 
another and themselves ? Shall we, Uke Homer, in- 
voke the Muses * to tell ' how faction first fell upon 
them,' and say that these goddesses playing with us 
and teasing us as if we were children address us in 
lofty, mock-serious tragic*^ style?" "How?" "Some- 
what in this fashion. Hard in truth <* it is for a state 
thus constituted to be shaken and disturbed ; but 
since for everything that has come into being destruc- 
tion is appointed,* not even such a fabric as this will 
abide for all time, but it shall surely be dissolved, and 
this is the manner of its dissolution. Not only for 
plants that grow from the earth but also for animals 
that live upon it there is a cycle of bearing and barren- 
ness f for soul and body as often as the revolutions of 
their orbs come full circle, in brief courses for the 
short-lived and oppositely for the opposite ; but the 

rinstinct resiste. II ne commence ^ ceder que lorsque la 
classe superieure elle-meme I'y invite." 

* For the mock-heroic style of this invocation cf. Phaedr. 
237 A, Laves 885 c. 

* Cf. 413 B, Meno 76 e, Aristot. Mete&rol. 353 b 1, 
Wilamowitz, Platan, ii. p. 146. 

" Cf. Ale. I. 104 E. 

* Cf. What Plato Said, p. 627 on Laws 677 a ; also Polyb. 
vi. 57, Cic. De rep. ii. 25. 

' Cf. Pindar, Nem. vi. 10-12 for the thought. 

245 



PLATO 

yevovs Se Vfierepov evyovias re Kal a<j)opiag, Kaiirep 
B ovreg ao(f)OL, ovs rjyeiiovas ttoXcojs eiraihevaaade , 
ovhkx> fxaXKov Xoyia[xa> /ter' alaO-qaeoig Tev^ovrai, 
dXXa TTapeiaLV avTovs /cat yevvqaovaL ttolSols Tvore. 
ov heov. eari 8e deicp pLCV yevvrjrco Trepiohos, t]V 
dpiOpios vepiXajx^dveL reXeios, dvdpoiTTeicp he ev 
d) 7Tpd)TOJ av^rjaeis hvvdjxevai re Kai hvvaarevo- 
ixevai, rpels drTOCTrdaeLS, rerrapag 8e opovs Xa- 
jSouffat ofioLovvTcov re Kal dvopLocovvrcov /cat 
av^ovrcov /cat (f)div6vro)V, rrdvra irpoarjyopa /cat 
C prjrd TTpos dXX'qXa dTTe(f>r]vav cov inirpLros rTv6jjLr)v 
TTefXTrdhi (jvt,vyeis hvo dpfioviag Tra/ae'verat rpls 
av^-qOeis, rrjv fiev tarjv tcra/cts', eKarov roaavrdKig, 
rrjv he laop^r^KT] jxev rfj, TrpojJLrjKrj he, eKarov fiev 
dpidfidJv drro hiafierpcov prjrcjv rrepiTTdhog, heofie- 
vcov evos eKaarcov, dpprjrcov he hvolv, eKarov he 
Kv^cov rpLahog. ^vpLTras he ovros dptdfios yeco- 
fjuerpiKos roLovrov KvpLos, dfJieivovcov re Kai ;\;et- 
D povojv yeveaeojv, a? orav dyvotjaavres vp.lv ol 
(f>vXaKeg crvvotKL^coat vvp.(f)as vvpi^ioLs napd Kaipov, 
OVK ev(j)veis ouS' evrvx^eZs TratSe? eaovrai' d)v 
Karaar'Qcrovat p,ev rovs dpLorovs ol Trporepoi, ofjLCOs 
he ovres dud^toL, els rds rdov Trarepcov av hwap^eis 
eXdovres, rjpidjv Ttpcbrov dp^ovrai dpieXeiv ^uAa/ce? 
ovres. Trap* eXarrov rod heovros rjyr]o-dp,evoL rd 
^xovatKTJs, hevrepov he rd yvfxvaarLKrjs' ddev a- 

" Cf. Tim, 28 a dd^y ixer alcrdrjaeus. 

* For its proverbial obscurity cf. Cic. Ad Alt. vii. 13 
"est enim numero Platonis obscurius," Censorinus, -De die 
natali xi. See supra, Introd. p. xliv for literature on this 
" number." * irpoatjyopa : cf. Theaet. 146 a. 

<« Cf. 534 D ; also Theaet. 202 b p7?rds." 

« Cf. 409 D. 
2^ 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

laws of prosperous birth or infertility for your race, 
the men you have bred to be your rulers will not for 
all their %\-isdoni ascertain by reasoning combined 
•nth sensation,*' but they will escape them, and there 
will be a time when they will beget children out of 
season. Now for di\'ine begettings there is a period 
comprehended by a perfect number,'' and for mortal 
by the first in which augmentations dominating and 
dominated when they have attained to three dis- 
tances and four limits of the assimilating and the 
dissimilating, the waxing and the waning, render 
all things conversable " and conunensurable with one 
another, whereof a basal four-thirds wedded to the 
pempad yields two harmonies at the third augmenta- 
tion, the one the product of equal factors taken one 
hundred times, the other of equal length one way but 
oblong, — one dimension of a hundred numbers deter- 
mined by the rational diameters of the pempad lack- 
ing one in each case, or of the irrational "* lacking two ; 
the other dimension of a hundred cubes of the triad. 
And this entire geometrical number is determinative 
of this thing, of better and inferior births. And when 
your guardians, missing this, bring together brides and 
bridegrooms unseasonably,* the offspring \\-ill not be 
well-born or fortunate. Of such offspring the pre\i- 
ous generation Asill estabhsh the best, to be sure, in 
office, but still these, being unworthy, and having 
entered in turn^ into the powers of their fathers, will 
first as guardians begin to neglect us, paying too 
little heed to music ^ and then to gymnastics, so that 

' aC: ef. my note in Class. Phil, xxiii. (1928) pp. 285- 
287. 

' This does not indicate a change in Plato's attitude toward 
music, as has been alleged. 

247 



PLATO 

fjiovaorepoi yevriaovTai Vfuv ol veoi. €K Se tovtojv 
E ap)(ovTes ov rrdw ^vXaKiKOi Karaar'qaovTai Trpos 
547 TO SoKifMoi^eLv ra 'HatoSou re /cat ra nap 
vplv yevrj, -x^pvaovv re /cat dpyvpovv /cat x'^Xkovv 
Kal aiSrjpovv ojjlov 8e pnyevros athrjpov dpyvptp 
/cat x^Xkov xP^'^^ dvo/xoLorT]? eyyevqaerai /cat 
dva)ixaXia dvdpiioGros , d yevofjieva, ov dv iyyd- 
vrjrai, del riKrei TToXe/xov Kal e^Qpo-v. ravriqs toi 
yeveds XPV ^^^^.i elvai ardaiv, orrov dv yiyvqrai 
del. Kat opddJs y , e(f)rj, avrds diroKpiveadai (fyr]- 
aofiev. Kat yap, '^v 8' iyci), dvdyKrj Movcras ye 
B ovaag. Tt ovv, rj 8' os, ro p.erd rovro Xeyovatv at 
Moucrat; ILrdaeojg, rjv 8' iyo), yevofievqs elXKer-qv 
dpa eKarepoj rd) yevei, ro fxev at.Srjpovv Kal X^-^' 
Kovv €771 ;^/37y/xaTtCT/>toi/ Kol yfjg KrrjGLV /cat ot/cia? 
Xpvalov re Kal dpyvpov, rd} 8' av, ro ;^/5t>CToi;t' re 
Kal dpyvpovv, are ov Trevop^evio, dXXd (f)vaei ovre 
irXovaicx), rds ipvxds errl rrjv dperrjv Kat. rrjv 
dpxo.iav Kardaraaiv rjyerr^v ^iat,opLeva>v 8e /cat 
dvrireivovrcov dXXijXois, els p-ecrov wpoXoyrjoav 
yrjv p,ev Kal otKias KaraveLjxap.evovs IStcvaauBai, 
C rovs 8e TTplv (f)vXarrop.evovs vn avrGiV cLs eXevde- 
povs ^iXovs re Kal rpo(j)eas hovXcoaap^evoL rore 
TTepcoLKOvs re Kal OLKeras exovres avrol TroXep^ov 
re Kal cfivXaKrjs avrdJv eTnpeXeladai. Ao/cet /xot, 
e<f)iq, avrr] rj perd^aais evrevOev yiyveadai. OvK- 
ovv, -^v 8' eyd), iv peacp Tt? av etr) dpioroKparias 



» Cf. supra 415 a-b. * Cf. Theaet. 159 a. 

Cf. Homer, /Z. vi. 211. 
^ ye vi termini. Cf. 379 a-b. 
* Cf. supra 416 E-4 17 A, 521 a, Phaedrus 279 b-c. 

248 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

our young men will deteriorate in their culture ; 
and the rulers selected from them will not approve 
themselves very efficient guardians for testing 
Hesiod's and our races of gold, silver, bronze and 
iron." And this intermixture of the iron with the 
silver and the bronze with the gold will engender 
unlikeness ^ and an unharmonious unevenness, things 
that always beget war and enmity wherever they 
arise. ' Of this lineage," look you,' we must aver the 
dissension to be, wherever it occurs and always." 
" ' And rightly too,' " he said, " we shall affirm that the 
Muses answer." " They must needs," I said, " since 
they are** Muses." " Well, then," said he, " what do 
the Muses say next ? " " WTien strife arose," said 
I, " the two groups were pulling against each other, 
the iron and bronze towards money-making and the 
acquisition of land and houses and gold and silver, 
and the other two, the golden and silvern, not being 
poor, but by nature rich in their souls,* were trying to 
draw them back to \irtue and their original consti- 
tution, and thus, striving and contending against one 
another, they compromised^ on the plan of distributing 
and taking for themselves the land and the houses, 
ensla\ing and subjecting as perioeci and serfs s' their 
former friends* and supporters, of whose freedom 
they had been the guardians, and occupying them- 
selves with war and keeping watch over these 
subjects." " I think," he said, " that this is the 
starting-point of the transformation." " Would not 
this polity, then," said I, " be in some sort inter- 

^ For eh ixicov cf. Protag. 338 a ; infra 572 d, 558 b. 

' An allusion to Sparta. On slavers- in Plato cf. Newman 
i. p. 143. Cf. 549 A, 578-579, LawsllG-lll ; Aristot. Pol. 
1259 a 21 f., 1269 a 36 f., 1330 a 29. 

* Cf. 417 A-B. 



PLATO 

re Kat 6Xiyapxio-S avrr] rj TroAireta; Hdvu [xev 
ovv. 

IV. Mera^T^crerat ixkv hy] ovto}' fxeTa^daa Se 
D TTOJs oiKrjcret,; rj cf>av€p6v on ra fxkv fiifXTJaeraL Trjv 
TTporepav TToAireiav, to. Se rrjv oXtyapxiciv, ar' iv 
jxeacp ouaa, ro Se rt /cat avrrjs e^ei 'i8iov; Ovtojs, 
e(f)rj, OvKovv TO) fiev Ttpidv rovs dpxovras /cat 
yecopyLcbv arrexeodai ro TrpoTToXepiovv avrrjg /cat 
XeiporexvLcov /cat rov a'AAou ;^/37^/iaTio-/u.oy, ^vcr- 
crirta Se KarecTKevdadai /cat yvfxvaarLKrjs re /cat 
rijs rod TToXefxov dycjvias eTTLpieXeZadai, Trdoi rols 
roLovTOis rrjv irporepav piijjivaerat, ; Nat. Toi Se 
E ye ^o^eladai rovs ao(f)ous eVt to.? apxas ayetv, 
are ou/ceVt KeKryj^evriv olttXovs re /cat drevets- rovs 
roiovrovs dvSpas dXXd puKrovs, errl Se dvp-oethels 
re /cat aTrXovarepovs aTTO/cAtWtr, rovs rrpos tto- 

548 XejjLov fidXXov TTetfyvKoras ■^ Ttpos elprjvrjv, Kal rovs 
TTepi ravra BoXovs re /cat iJLr]xo.va.s evripicos ^x^iv, 
/cat TToXep.ovoa rov del xpovov Sidyetv, avrrj eavrijs 
av rd TToXXd rdjv roiovrcov I'Sta efei; Nat. 

' '^mOv/JLT^raL Be ye, '^v S' eyu), XPVI^^'''^^ ^^ 
roLovroL eaovrai, axJTrep ol ev rats oXiyapxiO-is , 
/cat rifjiojvres dypiois vtto cjKorov xP^^ov re /cat 
dpyvpov, are KeKrrjpievoL rapnela /cat oiKeLovs 
drjoavpovs, ol defxevot av avrd Kpvifjetav, Kal av 
Trept^oXovs oiK-qaecov, drexycos veorrids tSta?, 

" Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1328 b 41 and Newman i. pp. 107-108. 

* Cf. supra 416 E, 458 c. Laws 666 b, 762 c, 780 a-b, 781 c, 
806 E, 839 c, Critias 112 c. 

" Cf. 397 E, Isoc. ii. 46 dn-XoOj 5' ijyovi'Tai roi)s povv ovk 
Ixoi'Ttts. Cf. the psychology of Thucyd. iii. 83. 

** This was said to be characteristic of Sparta. Cf. 
Newman on Aristot. Pol. 1270 a 13, Xen. Rep. Lac. 14. 2-3 

250 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

mediate between aristocracy and oligarchy ? " "By 
all means." 

IV. " By this change, then, it would arise. But after 
the change what will be its way of life ? Is it not ob- 
vious that in some things it will imitate the preceding 
polity, in some the oligarchy, since it is intermedi- 
ate, and that it will also have some qualities pecuhar 
to itself ? " " That is so," he said. " Then in honour- 
ing its rulers and in the abstention of its warrior class 
from farming " and handicraft and money-making in 
general, and in the pro\ision of common public tables ^ 
and the devotion to physical training and expertness 
in the game and contest of war — in all these traits it 
will copy the preceding state ? " "Yes." "But in its 
fear to admit clever men to office, since the men it has 
of this kind are no longer simple '^ and strenuous but of 
mixed strain, and in its incUning rather to the more 
high-spirited and simple-minded type, who are better 
suited for war than for peace, and in honouring the 
stratagems and contrivances of war and occupying 
itself with war most of the time — in these respects 
for the most part its qualities will be peculiar to 
itself? " " Yes." " Such men," said I, " will be avid 
of wealth, like those in an oligarchy, and will cherish 
a fierce secret lust for gold '^ and silver, owning store- 
houses * and private treasuries where they may hide 
them away, and also the enclosures-^ of their homes, 
literal private love-nests " in which they can lavish 

and 7. 6, and the Chicago Dissertation of P. H. Epps, 
The Place of Sparta in Greek History and Civilization, 
pp. 180-184.. 

• Cf. 416 D. 

' Cf. Laws 681 A, Theaet. 174 E. 

' veoTTids suggests Horace's " tu nidum servas " (Epist. i. 
10. 6). Cf. also Laws 776 a. 

251 



PLATO 

B €v ats dvaXiaKovres yvvai^i re Kal oh idiXoiev, 
aXXoLS TToXXa av SaTravcovro. ^AXrjdearaTa, €(f)7]. 
OvKovv Kal (fieiBcoXol XPVI^^'''^^> ^'''^ TL^wvTes /cai 
ov (f)av€poJs KTcofxevoL, (f>LXavaXcoTaL Be aXXoTpLOjv 
Si' iTTidv/jLiav, Kal Xddpa rds '^Bovds KapTTOvfxevoi, 
(Zarrep TralBes Trarepa rov vop-ov aTToBiBpaaKovres y 
ovx VTTo TTeidovs dXX' VTTo jSta? TTeTraiSeu/xeVot Sia 
TO T7]s dXr]dLvrjs Movarjs rijs ixerd Xoyojv re Kat 

C <j>LXooo<jiLas rjiJieXr]K€vaL Kal Trpeafivrepcos yvfxva- 
OTLKTjv pLOvaiKrjs TeTLp,r]K€vaL. YlavraTTaaiv, ecprj, 
Xdyeig fX€p.t,yfji€vr]v TToXireiav eK KaKov re /cat 
dyaOov. MepuKrai yap, rjv 8' iyd>- Bia^aveoTarov 
S' i.v avrfj iarlv ev ri p.6vov vtto rov dvpLoeiBovs 
KpaTovvTog, (fyiXoviKtai Kal ^LXoripiiat. ll(j)oBpa 
ye, rj 8' o?. Ovkovv, rjv 8' eyco, avrri p.ev rj 
TToAireLa ovrco yeyovvia Kat roLavrn) av tis etr), to? 

D Xoycp ax^ip-o- TroXLTetag inroypdifjavTa ybTj dKpi^oJs 
dnepydaaadai. Bid to e^apKetv [xev IBelv /cai eK 

T7JS" VTTOypa^T]? TOV T6 BlKaiOTaTOV Kal TOV aBlKO)- 

TaTOV, dfji-qxc-vov Be /ii^/cei epyov elvai irdaas p^ev 

" Cf. Laws 806 a-c, 637 b-c, Aristot. Pol. 1269 b 3, and 
Newman ii. p. 318 on the Spartan women. Cf. Epps.op. cif. 
pp. 322-346. 

'' <pi\ava\wTai, though different, suggests Sallust's " alieni 
appetens sui profusus " {Cat. 5). Cf. Cat. 52 " publice eges- 
tatem, privatim opulentiam." 

" Cf. 587 A, Latcs 636 d, Symp. 187 e, Phaedr. 251 e. 

" Cf. Aristot. PoL 1270 b 34 with Newman's note ; and 
Euthyphro 2c" tell his mother the state." 

« Cf, Laws 720 d-e. This is not inconsistent with Polit. 
293 A, where the context and the point of view are different. 

f This is of course not the mixed government which Plato 
approves Laws 691-692, 712 d-e, 759 b. Cf. What Plato 
Said, p. 629. 

» For diatpav^a-raTOv cf. 544 D. The expression 5ia<paviaTa- 

252 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

their wealth on their women" and any others they 
please with great expenditure." " Most true," he 
said. " And will they not be stingy about money, 
since they prize it and are not allowed to possess it 
openly, prodigal of others' wealth^ because of their 
appetites, enjoying*' their pleasures stealtliily, and 
running away from the law as boys from a father,** 
since they have not been educated by persuasion* but 
by force because of their neglect of the true Muse, the 
companion of discussion and philosophy, and because 
of their preference of gymnastics to music ? " " You 
perfectly describe," he said, " a polity that is a 
mixture^ of good and e\il." " Why, yes, the elements 
have been mixed," I said, " but the most con- 
spicuous ^ feature in it is one thing only, due to the 
predominance of the high-spirited element, namely 
contentiousness and CO vetousness of honour.''" " Very 
much so," said he. " Such, then, would be the origin 
and nature of this polity if we may merely outline the 
figure of a constitution in words and not elaborate it 
precisely, since even the sketch >vill suffice to show us 
the most just and the most unjust type of man, and it 
would be an impracticable task to set forth all forms* 

TOP . . . h> Ti ixbvov, misunderstood and emended by Apelt, 
is coloured by an idea of Anaxagoras expressed by Lucretius 
i. 877-878: 

Ulud 
apparere unum cuius sint plurima mixta. 

Anaxag.fr. \-2 in fine, Diels i.' p. 405 dXV otwv irKelara ^w, 
ravra ivhrfKorixTa tv tKa<yT6v iffTi Kai ^v. Cf. Phaedr. 238 A, 
Crafyl. 393 d, misunderstood by Diimmler and emended 
{(vapyris for iyKparris) with the approval of Wilamowitz, Platon, 
ii. p. 350. 

* There is no contradiction between this and Lares 870 o 
if the passage is read carefully. 

* C/. on 544 D, p. 240, note a. 

25S 



PLATO 

TToAiTeia?, Trdvra 8e rjOr) fx-qhev TrapaXnrovra 
SieXOetv. Kat opdwg, ^4>y]- 

V. Ttj ovv 6 Kara ravTTjv rriv TroXiTelav dvqp; 
7TCOS re yevofxevos ttoZos re tis ojv; Ot/xat /xeV, 
€^17 o 'A8et/xai'TO?, iyyvs rt avrov TXavKcovos 

E ToyTout reip'etv eveKo. ye (f)iXovLKiag. Icro)?, •^v 8 
eycij, TQvro ye* dAAa /xot SoKet raSe ou /cara rou- 
Tov 7T€(f)VKevai. To, TTOia; AvdaSearepov re Set 
auTov', i^v S' iyo), etvac Kal VTToapiovaorepov, 
<f)iX6ixovaov Se Kal (f)LX'qKoov p-iv, prjTopiKOV 8 
549 ovSap,aJs- xal SovXols p,€v tls dv dypios et''7 o 
TOiovros, ov Kara(f)pov(X)V hovXojv, ayoTrep 6 iKavojs 
7re7Tatd€vp.€vog , eXevdepois Se rjpiepos, dpxovrcov 8e 
(T(f)68pa VTTifjKoos, <l>iXap-)(os Se /cat (fnXorip^os, ovk 
aTTO rod Xeyeiv d^id)v dpx^iv oy8' aTro tolovtov 
ovSevos, aAA' dno epyojv tcov re TroXepuKcbv Kal 
Tojv TTcpl rd TToXepLiKa, (f)LXoyvp,vaar'qs re ris cov 
Kal (f)iX69rjpos. "EcTTi ydp, ^f^f], TOVTO TO rjdos 
€K€ivr}s rrjs TToAiTeia?. Ovkovv Kal XPVH-^'''^^* 

■^ rjv 8' eyto, d tolovtos veos p,€V cou Kara(j)povoi dv, 
OGip 8e TTpeaj^vTepos yiyvoiro, p.dXXov del aarra- 
^oiTO dv TO) re pcerex^t-v rrjs rod (l)t.XoxP'>]P-dTov 
<f>vcre(x)s Kal pcrj elvai elXiKpLvrjs Tvpos dperrjv 810. 

" Cf. Phaedo 60 a, Porphyry, De abst. i. 27, Teubner, p, 59 
£771)5 Ttlveiv dTToairlas. 

" av0aSe<TTepov. The fault of Prometheus (Aesch. P.V. 1034, 
1037) and Medea must not be imputed to Glaucon. 

* Cf. Arnold, Culture and Anarchy, who imitates or 
parodies Plato throughout, e.g. p. 83 " A little inaccessible 
to ideas and light," and pp. 54-55 " The peculiar serenity of 
aristocracies of Teutonic origin appears to come from their 
never having had any ideas to trouble them." 

" Cf. 475 D, 535 D, Lysis 206 c. 

' Cf. p. 249, note g, on 547 c, and Newman ii. p. 317. In 

25-i 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

of government without omitting any, and all customs 
and qualities of men." " Quite right," he said. 

v. " \Miat, then, is the man that corresponds to 
this constitution ? What is his origin and what his 
nature? " " I fancy," Adeimantus said, " that he 
comes rather close " to Glaucon here in point of con- 
tentiousness." " Perhaps," said I, " in that, but I 
do not think their natures are ahke in the following 
respects." " In what ? " " He will have to be some- 
what self-willed'' and lacking in culture,*^ yet a lover 
of music and fond of listening'* to talk and speeches, 
though by no means himself a rhetorician ; and to 
slaves such a one would be harsh,* not scorning them 
as the really educated do, but he would be gentle 
with the freebom and very submissive to officials, a 
lover of office and of honour,-^ not basing his claim to 
office ^ on ability to speak or anything of that sort 
but on his exploits in war or preparation for war, and 
he would be a devotee of gymnastics and hunting.* " 
" Why, yes," he said, " that is the spirit of that 
pohty.* " " And would not such a man be disdain- 
ful of wealth too in his youth, but the older he grev>- 
the more he would love it because of his partici- 
pation in the covetous nature and because his virtue 
i. p. 143, n. 3 he says that this implies slavery in the ideal 
state, in spite of 547 c. 

' Cf. Lysias xix. 18. Lysias xxi. portravs a tj'pical </«X6- 
Tifios. Cf. Phaedr. 256 c, Eurip. LA.' 527. He is a 
Xenophontic tj-pe. Cf. Xen. Oecon. 14. 10, Hiero 7. 3, 
Agesil. 10. 4. Isoc. Antid. 141 and -226 uses the word in a 
good sense. Cf. " But if it be a sin to covet honour," Shakes. 
Henry V. iv. i'ii. 28. 

• Cf. the aiiLOfuira of Laws 690 a, Aristot. Pol. 1280 a 8 ff., 
12S2 b26, 1283-1284. 

* Cf. Arnold on the " barbarians " in Cttlture and Anarchy, 
pp. 78, 83, 84. 

' For the ^6os of a state cf. Isoc. Nic. 31. 

255 



PLATO 

TO a7To\€L(f)6rjvaL Tov apiarov ^vXaKos; Tivo?; 

"^ b' og 6 'ASeifxavTOS. Aoyov, "^v S' iyco, [lOvaLKfj 

KeKpafxivov os jJiovog iyyevofievos acorrjp apeTrjs 

8ta piov €voiK€L rco exovri. KaAoJs", e^"*?, Aeyets". 

Kat ecTTi fiev y\ rfv 8' eyco, roiovros 6 tl/jlo- 

KpaTLKOs veavias, tjj roiavTrj TioXei ioiKws. lldvv 

C fJ-^v ovv. Tiyverai Se y* , elirov, ovros c5Se ttcus' 

ivLore jrarpos ayadov cov vdos vlos iv TroAet 

OLKOvvTos OVK €v TToXiTevofMevrj, (l)€vyovTOS Tas T€ 

TijLta? Kat dpxas Kal Slkus Kal rr^v roiavr-qv Trdaav 

(f>i\orrpaypLoavvqv Kal iOeXovTOs iXaTTOvaOat, cjare 

I TTpdyfxara pir) ex^tv. Hfj Si^, e^''?, yiyveTai; "Orav, 

j riv S' eyca, rrpoiTov p,ev ttjs p,r]rp6g aKovrj d^dopie- 

p i^S", OTL ov T<x)v dpxdvTOJV avrfj 6 dvrjp ecrrt, /cat 

j eXarTovpL€vrj£ hid ravra iv rals aAAai? yvvai^iv, 

I eneira opdiarjs prj acJjoSpa rrepl XP'^I^^'^^ anovSa- 

I ^ovra pLTjhe paxdpevcv Kal XoLSopovpevov tSta re 

I iv SiKaaryjpiOLS Kal hiqpiooia, dXXd paOvpLCOS Trdvra 

I rd Tocavra (f)€povra, Kal iavrco pev tov vovv rrpoa- 



\ 



" The Greek words \6yos and ixovcriKi) are untranslatable. 
Cf. also 560 B. For fiovaiK-n cf. 546 D. Newman i. p. 414. 
fancies that this is a return to the position of Book IV. 
from the disparagement of music in 522 a. Cf. Unity of 
Plato's Thought, p. 4 on this supposed ABA development of 
Plato's opinions. 

* c4 y marks the transition from the description of the 
type to its origin. Cf. 547 e, 553 b, 556 b, 557 b, 560 d, 
56i E, 563 B, 566 e. Ritter, pp. 69-70, comments on its 
frequency in this book, but does not note the reason. There 
are no cases in the first five pages. 

" Cf. Lysias xix. 18 iKeiui}) /xh yap Jjv to. eavroO wpaTreiv, 
with the contrasted type a.v7}\ui3CT€v €Tn.dvfiCov TifiaaOai, Isoc. 
Antid. 227 dirpayfioveaTdTOVS fxiv 6i'Tas ev ttJ ir6\ei. Cf. 
iroXvirpayfioffvvr} 444 B, 434 B, Isoc. Antid. 48, Peace 108, 30, 

256 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

is not sincere and pure since it lacks the best 
guardian ? " " What guardian ? " said Adeimantus. 
"Reason," said I, " blended with culture," which is 
the only indwelling preserver of virtue throughout 
life in the soul that possesses it." " Well said," he 
replied. " This is the character," I said, " of the 
timocratic youth, resembling the city that bears his 
name." "By all means." " His origin ^ is somewhat on 
this wise : Sometimes he is the young son of a good 
father who lives in a badly governed state and avoids 
honours and office and law-suits and all such meddle- 
someness '^ and is willing to forbear something of his 
rights'* in order to escape trouble.*" " How does he 
originate ? " he said. " Why, when, to begin ^Wth," 
I said, " he hears his mother complaining' that her 
husband is not one of the rulers and for that reason 
she is slighted among the other women, and when she 
sees that her husband is not much concerned about 
money and does not fight and brawl in private law- 
suits and in the public assembly, but takes all such 
matters lightly, and when she observes that he is self- 

and 26, with Norlin's note (Loeb). Cf. also Aristoph. 
Knights 26\. 

^ eXaTToOffdai : cf. Thuc. i, 77. 1, Aristot Eth. Nic. 1198 b 
26-32, Pol. 1319 a 3. 

' For frpayfjiaTa ^x"" <"/• 370 a, Gorff. 467 D, Ale. I. 119 b, 
Aristoph. Birds 1026, Wasps 1392. Cf. -rpdyfjiaTa irapex^ '» 
Rep. 505 A, 531 b, Theages 121 d, Herod, i. 155, Aristoph. 
Birds 931, Plutus 20, 102. 

' Wilamowitz, Platon, i. p. 434 with some exaggeration 
says that this is the only woman character in Plato and is 
probably his mother, Perictione. Pohlenz, Gott. Gel. Am. 
1921, p. 18, disagrees. For the complaints cf. Gerard, Four 
Years in Germany, p. 1 15 " Now if a lawyer gets to be about 
forty years old and is not some kind of a Rat his wife begins 
to nag hira . . ." 

VOL. II S 257 



PLATO 

exovra del aiadavrjrai, iavr-qv Se fi-qre ttolvu 

j Tifxcovra fn]T€ art/xct^ot'Ta' e^ aTravTcov rovroiv 

I dxdofievTjs T€ Kal Xeyovarjg ws dvavSpos re avTW 

\ 6 TTaTrjp /cat Atai' dveL}j,evos, Kal aAAa Stj oaa Kal 

IE oia (j>iXovaiv at yvvatKes Trepl rCov tolovtcov vixvetv. 

Kat fxdX\ e(f)r] 6 'ASeifiavros, TToXXd re Kal OfiOLa 

eavrals. OlcrOa ovv, rjv S eya>, ore Kal ot oiKerai 

rcov roLovrcov eviore Xddpa Trpos rovs vlets roiavra 

Xeyovaiv, ol SoKovvreg evvoL eti'at, Kal edv riva 

"Sioaiv 7} OKJielXovra xprjfiara, co /jlt] eire^epxerai 6 

TTarrjp, rj rt dXXo dSiKovvra, BiaKeXevovrai ottojs, 

erreihav dvrjp yevrjraL, riixcop-qaerai Trdvras rovs 

550 roLovrovs Kal dvrjp fxaXXov ecrrat rov narpos Kat 

e^icDV erepa roiavra d/couet /cat opa, rovs fiev ra 

avrojv irpdrrovras ev rfj TToAet r^XiOiovs re KaXov- 

fjievovs Kal ev ajxiKpo) X6ya> ovras, rovs Se fxri rd 

avrcov rLfMCOfievovs re Kal erraivov^evovs . rore Srj 

6 veos Trdvra rd roiavra dKova)v re /cat opcov, /cat 

av roils tov rrarpos Xoyovs dKovojv re /cat opa>v 

rd eTnrrjhevpiara avrov eyyvdev irapd rd rdtv 

dXXcov, eXKOfxevos VTr dpK^orepcov rovrcov, rov fxev 

B rrarpos avrov rd XoyiariKov ev rfj ^vxfj dphovros 

re Kal av^ovros, ra>v he aAAcur ro re e7Tidvfjir]riKov 

» Cf. Symp. 174 d, Isoc. Antid. 227. 

'' Cf. the husband in Lysias i. 6. 

* X/a>' aveiixivos : one who has grown too slack or negHgent. 
Cf. Didot, Com. Fr. p. 738 ris <h5e ixQpot Kal \iav ai'eijxivos ; 
Porphyry, De abst. ii. 58. 

"* Cf. Phaedo 60 a. For Plato's attitude towards women 
cf. What Plato Said, p. 632, on Laws 731 n. 

' vfj-ve'iv. Cf. Euthydem. 297 d. Soph. Ajax 292. Com- 
mentators have been troubled by the looseness of Plato's 
style in this sentence. Cf. Wilamowitz, Platon, ii. p. 385. 

258 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

absorbed " in his thoughts and neither regards nor I 
disregards her overmuch,* and in consequence of all 
this laments and tells the boy that his father is too , 
slack "^ and no kind of a man, with all the other com- j 
plaints with which women •* nag* insuch cases." "Many 1 
indeed," said Adeimantus, " and after their kind/ " / 
" You are aware, then," said I, " that the very house- ^ 
slaves of such men, if they are loyal and friendly, f 
privately say the same sort of things to the sons, and 
if they observe a debtor or any other wrongdoer whom 
the father does not prosecute, they urge the boy to 
punish all such when he grows to manhood and prove 
himself more of a man than his father, and when 
the lad goes out he hears and sees the same sort of 
thing.' Men who mind their own affairs'* in the city 
are spoken of as simpletons and are held in slight 
esteem, while meddlejs who mind other people's affairs 
are honoured and praised. Then it is • that the youth, 
hearing and seeing such things, and on the other hand 
listening to the words of his father, and with a near 
view of his pursuits contrasted with those of other 
men, is solicited by both, his father watering and 
fostering the growth of the rational principle ' in his 
soul and the others the appetitive and the passionate* ; 

^ C/. Aristoph. Thesm. 167 &fioia yhp roit'iv aviyKt} r^ <l>{tffu. 

" h-epa Toinvra: cf. on 488 b; also G<yrg. 481 e, 482 a, 
314 D, Euthyd. 298 e, Protag. 326 a, Phaedo 58 d, 80 d, 
Symp. 201 e, etc. 

» Cf. What Plato Said, p. 480, on Charm. 161 b. 

< T(h-€ 5-n: cf. 551 A, 566 c, 330 e, 573 a, 591 a, Phaedo 
85 A, 96 B and d, Polit. 272 e. Cf. also r&r' Mrj, on 
565 c. 

' Cf. on 439 D, Vol. I. p. 397, note d. 

* For these three principles of the soul cf. on 435 a ff., 
439 D-E ff., 441 A. 

259 



PLATO 

Kal TO dvfioetSes, Sta to /jlt] KaKov avhpos elvai 
TTjv (fivaiv, ofiiXiaLs Se Tat? tcDv dXXcov KaKals 
KexpyjcrOaL, ets" to jxeaov eXKOfievos vtt apL(j)OTepojv 
TOVTCOV fjXde, Kal ttjv ev eavTCp dpx'^v rrapeScoKc 
TO) fxeacp T€ Kal (f)iXovLKcp Kal dvpLoethei, koI 
iyevcTO vifjrjXocfjpojv re /cat ^tAort/xos" dvrjp. Ko/xtS^ 
/xoi, €(f)r], SoKets TTJV TOVTOV yevecTLv hteXrjXvdevau. 

C ''E;;^o/xei^ dpa, r}v S' iyio, tt^v re hevTepav TToXiTeiav 
Kal Tov SevTepov dvhpa. "E;!(o/xet', ^V*^- 

VI. OvKovv /xera tovto, to tov AlaxvXov, X4- 
ycofiev dXXov dXXr) npos ttoXcl TeTay/xevov, p,dXXov 
8e /faro. T'r]v VTTodeatv rrpoTcpav Trjv noXiv; Haw 
[X€V ovv, €(f)r]. Eti7 Se y' dv, d>s eya)/xat, oXiyapx^a 
r) fxeTa ttjv TotavTiqv TToXtTeiav. Aeyets 8e, 17 8' 
OS, TTjV TTolav KaTaoTaaLV oXtyapxtav; Trjv (itto 
TtiJ,7]fidTCL>v, rjv 8' iyco, noXtreiav, ev ■^ ol fjiev 

I) TrXovoioi dpxovaty Trev-qTi 8e ov fieTeoTiv dpxrj?- 
^lavddvo), •^ 8' OS. OvKovv d)s jj-eTa^aivei TrpcoTov 
€K Trjs TLp.apxio-S els ttjv oXiyapx^OLV, prjTcov; Nat. 
Kat p-rjv, rjv 8' iyco, Kal 'TV(f)Xcp ye SrjXov u)S 
[jL€Ta^aLV€L. noJs"; To Tapnelov, rjv 8' iycx), eKelvo 
€KdaTOJ ;;^puCTtoy TTXrjpovp^evov aTToXXvai ttjv rotau- 
TTjv TToXLTeiav. npojTOV jxev yap bairavas avTols 

i^eVpLCTKOVGLV, Kal TOVS VOpLOVS €771 TOVTO TTap- 

E ayouCTtv', dTTeidovvTes avTot re Kat yvvoLKes avTcbv. 
EiKOff, ^(1)7]. "ETretTct ye, oXpLai, aAAo? dXXov opcov 

■^ Cf, the fragment of Menander, (pddpova-tv ijdri XPV(^^' 
oniXiai KUKal, quoted in 1 Cor. xv. 33 (Kock, C.A.F. iii. 
No. 218). Cf. also Phaedr. 250 a vir6 tlvwv oixCKiCiv, Aesch. 
Seven Against Thebes 599 iad' bfj.C\ias /ca/c^s kolkiov ovdeu. 

" Cf. p. 249, note/. 

' Cf. infra 553 b-c, 608 b. 

** v\^rj\6(ppwv is a poetical word. Cf. Eurip. LA, 919 
260 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

and as he is not by nature of a bad disposition but has 
fallen into evil communications," under these two 
solicitations he comes to a compromise^ and turns over 
the government in his soul *^ to the intermediate prin- 
ciple of ambition and high spirit and becomes a man 
haughty of soul<* and covetous of honour.* " " You 
have, I think, most exactly described his origin." 
"Then," said I, "we have our second pohty and 
second t^-pe of man." " We have," he said. 

VI. " Shall we then, as Aeschylus^ would say, tell 
pf another champion before another gate, or rather, 
in accordance ^^ith our plan,^ the city first ? " " That, 
by all means," he said. " The next polity, I be- 
lieve, would be oligarchy." " And what kind of a 
regime, " said he, "do you understand by oligarchy 



'-" j/^' 



" That based on a property qualification,* " said W .*/j^ ^ 
" wherein the rich hold office and the poor man is\y >r 
excluded." "I understand," said he. "Then, is'V''^ 
not the first thing to speak of how democracy passes ^ 

over into this ? " " Yes." " And truly," said 1, " the 
manner of the change is plain even to the pro- 
verbial blind man.* " " How so ? " " That treasure- 
house ' which each possesses filled with gold destroys 
that polity ; for first they invent ways of expenditure 
for themselves and pervert the laws to this end, and 
neither they nor their wives obey them." " That is 
hkely," he said. " And then, I take it, by obser\ing 

' C/. p. 255, note/. 

' Seven Against Thebes 451 \ey iWov dWaii Iv xi'Xcus 

» Cf. Laws 743 c, and Class. Phil. ix. (1914) p. 346. 
» Cf. Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1160 a 3S, Isoc. Panath. 131, 
Laics 698 b aliter. 

* Cf. 465 D, Soph. 241 D. 
' Cf. 548 A, 416 D. 

SSI 



PLATO 

/cai et? i,'f]Xov la)v to TrXrjdos tolovtov avrojv 
airetpydaavTO . Et/cd?. TovvTevdev roivvv, elirov, 
TrpoLovres et? to irpoaQev tov ■)(pT]iJiaTLi^€adaL, oacp 
av TOVTO TifJiLcoTepov 'qycovTai, toctovtco dperqv 
aTifiOTepav. ^ ovx ovtoj ttXovtov dp€T7] SieaTTjKev, 
(UGTTep iv TrXdaTiyyt ^vyov Kcifievov eKaTepov aei 

TOVVaVTLOV pCTTOVTC; Kat pidX , ^(f>f]- TipLCOpLCVOV 

51 81) TtXovTOV iv TToAet /cai t(x)v nXovalcov ari/xoTepa 

I dp€Tij re Kal at dyadoi. A'r]Xov. ^ KaKeiTai Srj to 

i del TLpiU)p,evov, d/xeAetTai Se to drifjia^opLevov. 

OvTcos. ^AvTL Srj cfiiXovLKiov Kal (f)LXoTl[xojv dv- 

Spcbv (f)iXoxpy]P'O.TLaTal Kal (^lXoxptJi^o-tol TeXev- 

TOiVTes eyevovTo, Kal tov p,ev irXovaiov eTraivovaL Te 

Kal davfxdH^ovai Kal els ra? dp^ds dyovat, tov Se 

7Tev7]Ta dTLfxal^ovaiv . riavi; ye. O^kovv TOTe hr] 

^ vofJLOv TidevTai opov TToXiTeias dXtyapxt-Krjs Ta^d- 

fievoL TrXrjdos XP'^l^^'^^^ > ^^ 1^^^ puaXXov dXiyapxio-, 

nXeov, ov 8' tJttov, eXaTTov, TTpoenrovTes apx^v 

ixri fieTex^i-v, <S av fxr] fj ovaia els to Ta^Q^v 

TipLTipia, TavTa Se rq ^ia jjced ottXojv SiaTrpaTTOVTai, 

rj Kal TTpo TOVTOV cfyo^-qaavTes Karear-qaavTO ttjv 

TOtavTTjv TToXireiav. 7) ov^ ovtcjs; Ovtoj fJiev 

<» ets t6 Trpbffdev : cf. 437 A, 604 b, Prot, 339 d, Symp. 174 d, 
Polit. 272 D, Soph. 258 c, 261 b, Ale. I. 132 b, Protag. 357 d 
where ^s is plainly wrong, Aristoph. Knights 751. 

" Cf. 591 D, Laws 742 e, 705 b, 831 c ff., 836 a, 919 b 
with Pep. 421 D ; also Aristot. Pol. 1273 a 37-38. 

" Cf. on 544 E, Demosth. v. 12, 

'' This sentence has been much quoted. Cf. Cic. Tusc. i. 
2 " honos alit artes . . . iacentque ea semper, quae apud 
quosque inprobantur." Themistius and Libaniiis worked it 
into almost every oration. Cf. Mrs. W. C. Wright, The 
Emperor Julian, p. 70, n. 3. Cf. also Stallbaum ad loc. 
For dffKeiTai cf. Pindar, 01. viil. 22. 

S62 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

and emulating one another they bring the majority 
of them to this way of thinking." " That is hkely," 
he said. "And so, as time goes on, and they advance** 
in the pursuit of wealth, the more they hold that in 
honour the less they honour virtue. May not the 
opposition of wealth and virtue ^ be conceived as if 
each lay in the scale "^ of a balance inclining opposite 
ways ? " " Yes, indeed," he said. "So, when 
wealth is honoured in a state, and the wealthy, virtue 
and the good are less honoured." " Obviously." 
" And that which men at any time honour they 
practise,** and what is not honoured is neglected." 
"It is so." "Thus, finally, from being lovers of 
victory and lovers of honour they become lovers of 
gain-getting and of money, and they commend and 
admire the rich man and put him in office but despise 
the man who is poor." " Quite so." " And is it not 
then that they pass a law defining the limits * of an 
oligarchical polity, prescribing^ a sum of money, a 
larger sum where it is more ' of an oligarchy, where 
it is less a smaller, and proclaiming that no man shall 
hold office whose property does not come up to the 
required valuation ? And this law they either put 
through by force of arms, or without resorting to that 
they establish their government by terrorization.* 
Is not that the way of it?" "It is." "The 

« 5pov: cf. 531 c. Lares 714 c, 962 d, 739 d, 626 b, 
Menex. 238 d, PoUt. 293 e, 296 e, 292 c, Lysis 209 c, 
Aristot. Pol. 1280 a 7, 1271 a 35, and Newman i. p. 220, 
Eth. Kic. 1138 b 23. Cf. also reXo^ Rhet. 1366 a 3. For 
the true criterion of office-holding see Laws 715 c-d and 
Isoc. xji. 131. For wealth as the criterion cf. Aristot. Pol. 
1273 a 37. 

' For To^&tnaxH. cf. Vol. I. p. 310, note c, on 416 e. 

• Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1301 b l.S-14. 

» Cf. 551 A. 

263 



PLATO 

ovv. *H fiev Brj KardaTacrLS cos cttos elir^lv avrr). 
Nat, e^T]- dAAct TLS Srj 6 rponos rrj? TroAtTeta?, 
Kal TToZd iartv d e(f)a[X€v avTTjv dyaapTrj/xara I 

C ex^Lv; ^ ^^ , , „ ! 

VII. npcorov [xev, €(f)r]v, rovro avro, opos [ 
avTTJs olos iariv. adpei yap, el vewv ovrco rts 
7TOIOLTO KV^epvrjTas diTO TifiTjiJidTcov, rip Se TrevrjTi, 
el Kal KV^epv-qriKcorepos etrj, fxTj CTTirpeVot. 
Uovrjpdv, rj 8' os, rrjv vavriXiav avrovs vavriX- 
Xeadai. Ovkovv /cat Tvepl dXXov ovrcos orovovv 
[rj Tii'os']^ dpxfjs; Ot/xat eywye. IlXrjv ttoXccos, 
-^v 8' eyo), 7] /cat rroXecog rrepi; IloAu y\ e^T^], 
IxdXicTTa, oacp ;\;aAe77a>TdT7^ /cat fxeylaTT) rj dpx^- 

J) Ev iiev Srj rovTO roaovrov oXtyapxla dv e)(OL 
ajxdpT'qiJ.a. OatVerat. Ti Sat; rdSe dpd rt rov- 
Tov eXarrov ; To ttoXov ; To p,7] fiiav dXXd 8vo 
dvayKY) elvaL rrjv Toiavrrjv ttoXlv, ttjv p,ev nevqTOJV, 
rrjV 8e TrXovaicov, olKovvras ev rw avrw, del 

j eTTL^ovXevovras dAATjAots". Oi)8ef /xd At , 6(^7^, 
eXarrov. 'AAAd ixrjv ovSe roSe KaXov, to dSvvd- 
Tovs elvai to^cos TToXefXov riva TToXep,eZv Std to 
dvayKdl,e(jdaL rj p^pco/LteVoyj Tip TrXrjdeL covrAt- 

. 5 afxevip 8e8teVat pidXXov rj tovs rroXejilovs, iQ p,rj 

^ i} rtvos bracketed by Stallbaum, Burnet, and Hermann : 
^Tipos ci. Ast. 

» Cf. supra 488, and PoUt. 299 b-c, What Plato Said, p. 
531, on Euthydem. 291 d. 

* Stallbaum says that iiriTpiiroi is used absolutely as in 
575 D, Symp. 213 e, Lysis 210 b, etc. Similarly Latin per- 
mitto. Cf. Shorey on Jowett's translation of Meno 92 a-b, 
A.J.P. xiii. p. 367. See too Diog. L, i. 65. 

"Men are the hardest creatures to govern. Cf. Pol If. 
292 D, and What Plato Said, p. 635, on Laws 766 a. 
264 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

establishment then, one may say, is in this wise." 
" Yes," he said ; " but what is the character of this 
constitution, and what are the defects that we said 
it had ? " 

VII. " To begin with," said I, " consider the nature 
of its constitutive and defining principle. Suppose 
men should appoint the pilots ° of ships in this way, by 
property quaUfication, and not allow * a poor man to 
navigate, even if he were a better pilot." " A sorry 
voyage they would make of it," he said. " And is 
not the same true of any other form of rule ? " "I 
think so." " Except of a city," said I, " or does it 
hold for a city too ? " " Most of all," he said, " by 
as much as that is the greatest and most difficult '^ rule 
of all." " Here, then, is one very great defect in 
oligarchy." " So it appears." " Well, and is this 
a smaller one ?*" " What ? " " That such a city 
should of necessity be not one,"* but two, a city of 
the rich and a city of the poor, dwelling together, 
and always plotting" against one another." "No, 
by Zeus," said he, " it is not a bit smaller." " Nor, 
further, can we approve of this — the likelihood that 
they will not be able to wage war, because of the 
necessity of either arming and employing the multi- 
tude,^ and fearing them more than the enemy, or else, 
if they do not make use of them, of finding themselves 

'' For the idea that a city should be a unity cf. Laws 739 d 
and supra on 4-23 a-b. Cf. also 4-22 e with 417 a-b, Livy 
ii. 24 " adeo duas ex una civitate discordia fecerat." Aristot. 
Pol. 1316 b 7 comments Sltottov 5k (cai to <f>dvai oi'o xoXeiy elvai 
■riiK dXiyapxi-Krii', ir\oi'<yiwu *rai Tevr/Twv . . . and tries to prove 
the point bv his topical method. 

• C/. 417'b. 

' For the idea that the rulers fear to arm the people cf. 
Thuc. iii. 27, Livy iii. 15 "consules et armare plebiem et 
inermem pati timebant.'' 

265 



PLATO 

Xpoi^evovs ws aXrjOcjs oXiyapxiKov? ^avrjvaL iu 
avTcp Tcp [xdx^crdai, /cat a/xa ;)^/3?^/LtaTa fjcrj ideXeiv 
€ta(f)ipeiv, are (j^iXoxprjixdrov? . Ov koXov. Tt Se; 
o TTaAat eXoiSopovfiev, to TToXvirpaypLOveZv yecop- 

552 yovvras /cat ;\;/)7y/xaTi^O)U,€Voys /cat TroAe/iouiTas 
a/xa Tovs avTovs iv Trj roiavrr) TroAtreta, ■^ So/cet 
opdaJs ^X^'-^' Oj^S' OTTOJcrriovv. "Opa S-q, tovtojv 
TTavrcov rojv /ca/ccDv et roSe pLeyiarov avrr] TrpcoTT) 
vapaSex^Tai. To Trotov'; To e^eivat Trdvra rd 
avTov dnoSoaOai /cat aAAoj KrijaaaOai rd rovrov, 
/cat aTToSojxevov olk€lv iv rfj TToAet [xrjSev ovra Ta>v 
TTJs TToXeojs fxepcbv, fjLrjrc xP'fJP'O.TtCTTrjv jx-qTe Srjfxiovp- 
yov /JiTjre imrea fnjre OTrXiTrjv, dXXd TTevrjra /cat 
B diTopov KeKXiqixivov . Upwrrj, ^4''f].' Ovkovv 8ta- 
/cojAuerat ye iv rats oXiyapxcvfievats to tolovtov 
ov yap dv ol fxev vrrepirXovTOL rjaav, ol he rrav- 
rdnaai Trevrjres. ^OpddJs. ToBe Be ddpei- dpa 
ore nXovacos cov dv^XicrKev 6 roiovros, fiaXXov ri 
ror rjv o(f)eXos rfj noXet els a vvv hr] eXeyojiev; 
-q eSo/cet pikv rwv dpxovrcov etvai, rfj Be dXrjdeia 
ovre dpxcov ovre VTrrjperrjs t^v avrrjs, dXXd rdJv 
eroipLOiv dvaXioriqs; Ovrcos, e^Tj- eSo/cet, -^v Be 

Ac ovBev dXXo T] dvaXa>rrjs. BowAet ovv, ■^v 8' iyco, 

" He plays on the word. In 565 c ws d\r]du>s oXiyapxiKovs 
is used in a different sense. Cf. Symp. 181 a ws d\r)dQs 
7rdvdr]fios, Phaedo 80 d els "Aioov ujs dXrjdQs. 

'' Cf. supra 374 b, 434 a, 443 d-e. For the specialty of 
function cf. What Plato Said, p. 480, on Charm. 161 e. 

' So in the Laws the householder may not sell his lot; 
Laws 741 B-c, 744 d-e. Cf. 755 a, 857 a, Aristot. Pol. 
1270 a 19, Newman i. p. 376. 
266 



i 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

on the field of battle, oligarchs indeed," and rulers 
over a few. And to this must be added their reluc- 
tance to contribute money, because they are lovers 
of money." " No, indeed, that is not admirable." 
" And what of the trait we found fault with long ago "* 
— the fact that in such a state the citizens are busy- 
bodies and jaclcs- of- all -trades, farmers, financiers 
and soldiers all in one ? Do you think that is right ? " 
" By no manner of means." " Consider now whether 
this polity is not the first that admits that which Ls the 
greatest of all such evils." " What } " " The allow- 
ing a man to sell all his possessions,* which another 
is permitted to acquire, and after selling them to go 
on h\ing in the city, but as no part of it,<* neither a 
money-maker, nor a craftsman, nor a knight, nor 
a foot-soldier, but classified only as a pauper * and a 
dependent." " This is the first," he said. " There 
certainly is no prohibition of that sort of thing in 
oligarchical states. Othervnse some of their citizens 
would not be excessively rich, and others out and 
out paupers." "Right." " But observe this. Wlien 
such a fellow was spending his wealth, was he then of 
any more use to the state in the matters of which we 
were speaking, or did he merely seem to belong to the 
ruling class, while in reality he was neither ruler nor 
helper in the state, but only a consumer of goods ' ? " 
" It is so," he said ; " he only seemed, but was just 
a spendthrift." " Shall we, then, say of him that as 

^ Cf. Aristot. Fol. 1336 a 20, Newman i. pp. 9S and 109. 
Cf. Leslie Stephen, Util. ii. Ill "A vast populace has 
grown up outside of the old order." 

• Cy. Aristot. Pol. 1266 b 13. 

^ fToifuav : " things ready at hand." Cf. 573 a, Polyb. vi. 
(Teubner, vol. ii. p. 237); Horace Epist. i. 2. 27 " fruges 
consumere nati." 

267 



) 



PLATO 

f (f)0)ix€v avTov, (x)s eV K-qpuv Kr](f)7}v iyylyverai, 

J a^Tjvovs voarjijia, ovno Kal rov tolovtov iv oIklo. 

w K'r)(f>7Jva eyyiyveadai, vocrqixa ttoXccos; Yldvu fi€V 

I ovv, e(f)rj, CO HcoKpares. Ovkovv, c3 ^A^eifiavre, 

Tovs fiev 7TTr)vovs Krj(f)rjvas Travrag aKevrpovs o 

deos 7T€7TOLrjKev, TOVS Se Tre^oy? tovtovs iviovs {xev 

avTcov oLKeurpovs, Ivlovs Se Seiva Kevrpa exovras; 

Kal €K fi€V Tiov OLKevrpcov TTTOixol TTpos TO yrjpas 

D reXevTcoGLV, e/c 8e tojv KeKevrpcofievcDV Travres 

oaoi K€K\rivrai KaKovpyoi; ^AXrjOeaTara, e^Tj. 

ArjXov apa, rjv 8' eyco, iv iroXei, ov dv lBtjs tttu)- 

Xovs, on elai ttov iv tovtoj rw tottco airoKeKpvp,- 

fievoi /cAcTTTat re Kal ^aXapTLarofioi Kal lepoavXoi 

Kal TTOLVTCov Tctjv TOLovTCov KaKcbv Sr^jJiLOVpyOL. 

ArjXov, €(l>-q. Ti ovv; iv rats oXiyapxov pLcvais tto- 

Aecri TTTOiXOVS ovx 6 pas ivovrag; 'OAtyou y' , €(/)'r], 

■ndvras tovs iKTos tcDv dpxovTOJv. Mt^ ovv olo- 

E jxeOa, e(f)r]v iyco, Kal KaKovpyovs ttoXXovs ev 

avTals etvai KevTpa exovTas, ovg iTTip.eXeia pia 

KaTexovaiv at dpxo.^; OlofMeda p.kv ovv, e^^y. 

*A/3' ovv ov hi dTTaihevaiav /cat KaKTjv Tpo(l)rjv /cat 

KaTaoTaaiv ttjs TToXiTeias <^7^ao/xef tovs tolovtovs 

avTodi iyyiyveadai; ^-qao/jiev. 'AAA' ovv 817 

ToiavTT] ye tis civ eirj 7) oXiyapxovpiivr] TToXts Kat, 

TouavTa KaKOL exovaa, tacos 8e Kal ttXcloj. JjX^oov 

" Cf. Laxos 901 a, Hesiod, Works and Days 300 f., Arlstoph. 
Wasps 1071 ff., Eurip. Suppl. 24:2, Xen, Oecon. 17. 15, and 
Virgil, Georg. iv. 168 " ignavum fucos pecus a praesepibus 
arcent." 

The sentence was much quoted. Stallbaum refers to 
Ruhnken on Tim. 157 ff. for many illustrations, and to 
Petavius ad Themist. Orat. xxiii. p. 285 d. Cf. Shelley, 
Song to the Men of England : 
268 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

the drone " springs up in the cell, a pest of the hive, 
so such a man grows up in his home, a pest of the 
state r " " By all means, Socrates," he said. " And 
has not God, Adeimantus, left the drones which have 
\vings and fly stingless one and all, while of the drones 
here who travel afoot he has made some stingless but 
has armed others with terrible stings ? And from the 
stingless finally issue beggars in old age,*" but from 
those furnished with stings all that are denominated " 
malefactors ? " " Most true," he said. " It is 
plain, then," said I, " that wherever you see beggars 
in a city, there are somewhere in the neighbourhood 
concealed thieves and cutpurses and temple-robbers 
and similar artists in crime." " Clearly," he said. 
" Well, then, in oligarchical cities do you not see 
beggars ? " " Nearly all are such," he said, " except 
the ruHng class." " Are we not to suppose, then, that 
there are also many criminals in them furnished \%-ith 
stings, whom the rulers by their surveillance forcibly ** 
restrain ? " " We must think so," he said. " And 
shall we not say that the presence of such citizens is 
the result of a defective culture and bad breeding 
and a wTong constitution of the state ? " " We 
shall." " Well, at any rate such would be the char- 
acter of the ohgarchical state, and these, or perhaps 
even more than these, would be the evils that afflict 
Wherefore, Bees of England, forge 
Many a weapon, chain and scourge. 
That these stingless drones may spoil 
The forced produce of your toil ? 
* Cf. 498 A, iair« 653 a ; also the modern distinction be- 
tween defectives and delinquents. 
" KeKXrjVTai : cf. 344 B-c. 

■* §i(f is so closely connected with Karixovciy that the double 
dative is not felt to be awkward. But Adam takes itrifieXfiq. 
as an adverb. 

269 



PLATO 

553 Tt, €cf>r]. *AiT€ipydadct) Srj rjfuv Kal avrrj, rjv 8' 
eyo), 7j TToXiTCia, rjv oXiyapxtav KaXovatv, ck 
Tifxr^jjidTCDv exovaa rovs dpxovras. rov Se ravrrj 
oyuoiov jxeTo. ravra (TKOTTOJfjiev, cu? re yiyverai otos 
re yevojxevos eariv. Yldw [xev ovv, e<f)-q. 

VIII. ' Ap ovv a)he /LtaAiCTxa elg oXiyapxi-Kov 

€K rod TLfJLOKpariKOv eKeivov /xera^aAAei; Ylcos; 

Otov avTov TTois yevojJLevos to pikv Trpcorov ^-qXai 

re rov varepa /cat to. eKeivov ix^ Sia)Kr), erreira 

B aurov iSrj e^ai^V7]s nraiaavra Uiairep rrpos ep/jbari 
rrpos rfj TroAet, Kal eKxeavra rd re avrov /cat 
eavrov, t] arparrjyrjcravra rj riv* dXXrjv fieydXrjv 
dpxTjv dp^avra, elra els hLKaarrjpiov e/jLTreaovra, 
^XaTTTOfjLevov VTTO avKo<j>avTii)v, -q aTVodavovTa -q 
€K7Teaovra t] arLpnodevra /cat rr^v ovaiav drraaav 
dno^aXovra. Et/co? y* , €<f)7). ^ISwv 8e ye, co 
0tAe, ravra /cat iradajv /cat aTroAeVa? ra ovra 
Seiarag, ol/xai, evdvs eTrt Kecf)aXr]v wdel e/c rod 

C Opovov rov ev rfj eavrov ifjvxfj (f)iXori[j,Lav re /cat 
ro QvpLoeihes eKeZvo, /cat raTretvcodels vtto Trevias 
rrpos ;\;/37y/zaTicr^ov rpaTTOfjievog yXiaxpcog /cat /caret 
apLLKpov (j)eLh6p,evos Kal epya^op^evos XPVH-^'''^ 

" Cf. on 550 c, p. 261, note h. 

* Cf. 410 B, Homer, Od. xix. 436 Ix^-q ipewun'Tos, ii. 406, 
iii. 30, V. 193, vii. 38 fier' ixvia ^aive. 

" For TTTaLcravTa cf. Aesch. Prom. 926, Ag. 1624 (Butl. 
emend.). 

" Cf. Aesch. Ag. 1007, Eumen. 564, Thuc. vii. 25. 7, and 
Thompson on Phaedr. 255 d. 

• Lit. "spilling." Cf, Lucian, Timon 23, Shakes. Merchant 
of Venice, i. i. 31 IF.: 

270 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

it." " Pretty nearly these," he said. " Then," I said, 
" let us regard as disposed of the constitution called 
oligarchy, whose rulers are determined by a property 
quaUfication." And next we are to consider the man 
who resembles it — how he arises and what after that 
his character is." " Quite so," he said. 

VIII. " Is not the transition from that timocratic 
youth to the oligarchical type mostly on this wise ? " 
" How ? " " WTien a son born to the timocratic man at 
first emulates his father, and follows in his footsteps '' ; 
and then sees him suddenly dashed,*^ as a ship on a 
reef,** against the state, and making complete wreck- 
age ' of both his possessions and himself — perhaps he 
has been a general, or has held some other important 
office, and has then been dragged into court by mis- 
chievous sycophants and put to death or banished^ or 

outlawed and has lost all his property " "It is 

Ukely ," he said. "And the son, my friend, after seeing 
and suffering these things, and losing his property, 
grows timid, I fancy, and forthwith thrusts headlong* 
from his bosom's throne* that principle of love of 
honour and that high spirit, and being humbled by 
poverty turns to the getting of money, and greedily * 
and stingily and little by httle by thrift and hard 

, . . dangerous rocks 
Would scatter all her spices on the stream. 
Enrobe the roaring waters with my silks. 

' For iK-irea-oyra cf. 560 a, 566 a. In Xen. An. vii. 5. 13 
it is used of shipwreck. Cf. £K/3dXXoKT€j 4S8 c. 
» Cf. Herod, vii. 136. 

* Cf. Aesch. Ap. 983, Shakes. Romeo and Juliet v. i. 3 : 

My bosom's lord sits lightly in his throne, 

and supra 550 b. 

• For y\Laxp<^s cf. on 488 a. Class. Phil. iv. p. 86 on Diog. 
L. iv. 59, Aelian, Epist. Rust. 18 y\i<rxp<^^ "re xal *car 6\iyov. 

271 



PLATO 

gvAAeyerai. dp* ovk oiei rov roiovTOV Tore etg 
fiev rov dpovov eKelvov ro iTndvfirjTiKov re Kal 
<jn,\oxprip.aTOV iyKadit^eiv /cat /xeyav ^aaiXea Troielv 
ev eavTcp, rcdpas re Kal crrpeTTTOvs /cat d/ctm/ca? 
TTapa^covvvvra ; "Eycuy', €(f)r]. To Se ye, ot/xat, 

D AoyiCTTt/cdf T€ /cat OvfioeiBes ^ct^iat evOev /cat evdev 
TTapaKadiaas utt' e/cetVa» /cat KarahovX<x)<jdp,€vos , 
ro [xev ovhev aAAo ea Xoylt,eaBai. ovhk aKorreZv dAA' 
r^ OTTodev i^ iXarrovcov p^pT^/idrcoi' TrAet'o) ecrrat, to 
06 au davp,dl,€iv Kal rifxav p,r]hev d'AAo •^ TrAoyrdv' 
re /cat ttXovglovs, Kal ^iXorip.eZa9ai p-f]^* e^' ei^t 
ctAAoj 7) eTTt xPiy-^'^^^ Krrjaei Kal idv ri dXXo et? 
rovro ^^pj). OvK ear' dXXrj, €(f)rj, fjLera^oXrj ovrco 
rax^Zd re Kal laxvpd e/c <j>LXoripLOV veov els 

E (juXoxpripiOLrov . ^A/a' ovv oSros, '^v S' eyo), 

oXiyapxtKog eariv ; *H yovv fiera^oXrj avrov ef 

opLOiov avSpos eari rfj iroXireia, e^ rj^ rj oXiyapx^a 

554 p^erearrj. ^K07Tcdp,ev 817 el op.oto5 dv etrj. 2/co- 

TTWpLeV. 

IX. OvKovv TTpojrov p,ev rco XRVH-^"^^ nepl 
irXeiarov rroLeladat o/zoto? dv etrj; Hobs S' ov; 
Kat fi'qv ra> ye ^etSojAo? eti^at /cat epydrrjs, rds 
dvayKatovs e7n6vp,tas p,6vov rd)v Trap' avrat 
dTTOTnpLTrXds , rd 8e aAAa dvaXa)p.ara p,r] irap- 
exop-evos, dXXd SovXovp,evos rds dXXas e7n9vp,Las 
d)S p,araLOVS. riai^u p,ev ovv. AvxP'T^pos ye ris, "^v 
8' eyo), cov /cat aTro Tramos Trepiovaiav 7roiovp.€vos, 

" iv6ev Kal fvOev: cf, Protag. 315 B, Tim. 46 c, Critias 
117 c, etc., Herod, iv. 175. 

*" Cf. 554 A, 556 c, Xen. 3Iem. ii. 6. 4 /xrjo^ irphs iv dWo 
ffxof^V" TTOLeiTai fj bwbdev avrds tl KepSavei, and Aristot. Pol. 
\2^1l b 4-7, and supra 330 c. See too Inge, Christian Ethics, 

272 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

work collects property. Do you not suppose that such 
a one will then establish on that throne the principle 
of appetite and avarice, and set it up as the great 
king in his soul, adorned with tiaras and collars of 
gold, and girt with the Persian sword ? " "I do," 
he said. " And under this domination he will force 
the rational and high-spirited principles to crouch 
lowly to right and left " as slaves, and will allow the 
one to calculate and consider nothing but the ways of 
making more money from a little,* and the other to 
admire and honour nothing but riches and rich men. 
and to take pride in nothing but the possession of 
wealth and whatever contributes to that ? " " There 
is no other transformation so swift and sure of the 
ambitious youth into the avaricious type." " Is this, 
then, our oligarchical man ? " said I. " He is de- 
veloped, at any rate, out of a man resembhng the 
constitution from which the ohgarchy sprang." " Let 
us see, then, whether he will have a hke character." 
" Let us see." 

IX. " Would he not, in the first place, resemble 
it in prizing wealth above everything ? " " Inevi- 
tably." " And also by being thrifty and laborious, 
satisfying only his own necessary <^ appetites and 
desires and not providing for expenditure on other 
things, but subduing his other appetites as vain and 
unprofitable r " " By all means." " He would be a 
squaUd"* fellow," said I, " looking for a surplus of 

p. 220: " The Tim^s obituarj- notice of Holloway (of the pills) 
will suffice. ' Money-making is an art by itself; it demands 
for success the devotion of the whole man,' " etc. For the 
phrase (TKoxeir ordOty cf. Isoc. Areop. 83, Pan^gyr, 13S-134 
ffKoxelv ^ Hiv. 

* Cf. on 558 D, p. 291, note ». 

'' ai>xP-np6i : ef. Symp. 203 d. 

VOL. II T 273 



PLATO 

13 OrjaavpoTTOtog avvp- ovs Srj /cat iiraivec to ttXtjOos' 
^ ovx ovros dv etr} 6 rfj roiavTr) TToXireia ofjLOios; 
'E/iOt yovv, €(f)r], Sokcl- ;\;p7^/xaTa yovv [xdXiara 
eWi/ta T^ Tfc TToAet Kal Tzapa rco tolovtco. Ov ydp, 
of/xai, -^v 8' iycv, TraiSeta o TOioyTO? rrpocreax'i^Kev. 
Ov SoKOJ, e(j)rj- ov yap dv TV(j>X6v •qyep.ova rov 
Xopov iaTTjaaTO Kal irifxa pLaXiara} Eu, riv 8' 
eycu. ToSe 8e crKOTrer KrjcftrjvcoSeLS eTndvjxias iv 
avTO) bid T7]v oLTTaSevaiav jxrj (f>u)pLev eyyiyveadat, 

C Tas fJLev TTTcoxiKas , rag 8e KaKovpyovs, Kare^o- 

fjLevas ^La vtto T-fjs dXXrjs eTnjxeXeias ; Kat juaA', 

€^77. Olad^ ovv, eiTTOV, ot aTrofiXeijjas Karoipei 

avTwv rds KaKovpy las ; Hoi; €(f)rj. Et? ras" tcoi/ 

6p(f)ava>v €7nrpo7T€va€LS /cat ei,' nov tl avTolg 

TOiovrov ^Vfi^aLvec, ware ttoAAt^s" i^ovartag Xa- 

^eadac rov dhiKeZv. 'AXrjdrj. ^Ap' ovv ov rovra> 

hrjXov, on iv rols dXXots ^vjjL^oXaloLS o roiovros, 

ev OLS euSo/ct/xet Sokcjv SiKacos elvai, evrteiKet tlvl 

D iavrov j8ia /carej^et aAAa? Ka/ca? iTndvfiLas ivovaas, 

^ iri/xa /idXiara Schneider. The ert fidXiffra of the mss. is 
impossible. 

" For TTepiovffiav cf. Blaydes on Aristoph. Clouds 50 and 
Theaet. 154 e. 

" Cf. Phaedr. 256 e, Meno 90 a-b by implication. 
Numenius (ed. Mullach iii. 158) relates of Lacydes that he 
was "a bit greedy (uTroyXiaxpoTepoi) and after a fashion a 
thrifty manager {oikovo/j.ik6s) — as the expression is — the sort 
approved by most people." Emerson, TA« Young American, 
" They recommend conventional virtues, whatever will earn 
and preserve property." But this is not always true in an en- 
vious democracy: cf. Isoc. xv. 159-160 and America to-day. 

274 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

profit ^ in everything, and a hoarder, the type the 
multitude approves.'' Would not this be the char- 
acter of the man who corresponds to such a polity ? " 
" / certainly think so," he said. " Property, at any 
rate, is the thing most esteemed by that state and that 
kind of man." " That, I take it," said I, " is because 
he has never turned his thoughts to true cultru-e." 
" I think not," he said, " else he would not have made 
the bh'nd "^ one leader of his choir and first in honour.'* " 
" Well said," I repUed. " But consider this. Shall 
we not say that owing to this lack of culture the appe- 
tites of the drone spring up in him, some the beggarly, 
others the rascally, but that they are forcibly re- 
strained by his general self-surveillance and self- 
control * ? " " We shall indeed," he said. " Do you 
know, then," said I, " to what you must look to 
discern the rascalities of such men ? " " To what ? " 
he said. " To guardianships of orphans,-^ and any 
such opportunities of doing injustice with impunity." 
" True." " And is it not apparent by this that in 
other deahngs, where he enjoj's the repute of a 
seeming just man, he by some better' element in 
himself forcibly keeps down other cAil desires dwelling 

• Plato distinctly refers to the blind god Wealth. Cf. 
Aristoph. Plutus, Furip. fr. 773, Laxcs 631 c jtXoCtos od 
Tv<p\Q% which was often quoted. Cf. What Plato Said, p. 62i, 
Otto, p. 60. 

' Cf. Herod, iii. 34, vii. 107. 

* Cf. giipra 55-2 e ^TifieXdq. ^ia. For dXXijj cf. 368 b ix 
TOv 4\\oi' Tov V fieri pov rpdirov, 

' For the treatment of inferiors and weaker persons as a 
test of character cf. Laws 777 d-e, Hesiod, irariv* and Days, 
330, and Murray, Rise of the Greek Epic, pp. 84-85, who, 
however, errs on the meaning of ai5u«. For orphans cf. also 
Laws 926-928, 766 c, 877 c, 909 c-d. 

» i-TLfiKil is here used generally, and not in its special sense 
of *' sweet reasonableness." 

275 



PLATO 

ov 7T€i9o}v, on ovK dfxeivov, ovb' 'qfxepcov Xoyco, 
dXX' dvdyKT) Kal (f)6^cp, irepl rijs (iAAt^? ovaiag 
rpejjLwv; Kat Trdvv y , ^(f>r]. Kai vq Ata, -^v 8 
iyu), c5 (f)iXe, rols rroXXois ye avrcvv evpijcreis, orav 
Serj rdXXoTpta dvaXictKeiv, rds rov KT](f)rjvos ivy- 
yeveTs ivovaas iTnOvjiias. Kat fidXa, rj 8 os", 
a(f)6Spa. OvK dp* dv e'iiq daraaiaaTos d tolovtos 
€v eavTCp, ovSe ets" dAAa SlttXovs tls, imdvpLtas 8e 

E inidvfjiLcov (Ls TO TToXv Kparovaas dv exoc ^eXriovs 
X^ipovojv. "EaTiv ovTcoS' Ata raura bij, oi/xat, 
euaxT^fiovearepos dv ttoXXojv 6 tolovtos etr]' 
6fxovor)TLK7Js Be Kal rjpjxoap,iv7]s rrjs ^^XV^ 
dXrjdrjs dperrj TToppco ttol eKifyevyoL dv avTov. 
Ao/<ret fioi. Kai fxrjv dvrayojviCTT'qs ye tSta ev 
555 TToXei 6 (^etScoAos" cf)avXos t] tivos vlktjs t) dXXr]s 
(f)t,XoTtfjiLas rCbv KaXcov, ;!^/37y/xaTa re ovk edeXoiV 
evSo^las eVe/ca Kal rd)v tolovtcov dycovojv dva- 
XiGKecv, SeStcb? ras" iTTidvpLias rds dvaXcoTiKas 
eyeipeiv Kal ^vfnrapaKaXeXv cttI ^vjJifMaxidv re Kai 
^iXovLKLav, oXiyoLS rialv eavrov TroXefxcov oAty- 
apxt-Kws rd 77oAAa 7]rrdrai Kal TrXovrei. Kat pidXa, 
e<j)T]. "Eti ovv, rjv S' eyo), dTTiarov/JLev , firj Kara 
TTiv oXiyapxovfxevrjv ttoXiv op.oioT'qTL tov <f>eLh(x}X6v 

B re /cat ;\;p7^/xaTtcrTT7V' reraxOai; OvSaficbs, e(f)y]. 
X. ArjfjiOKpaTLav St), (Ls €olk€, fxerd tovto 

" For ivovaas cf. Phileb. 16 u, Symp. 187 e. 

" Gf. 463 D. "For the idea here cf. Phaedo 68-69, What 
Plato Said, p. 527. 

" For the idea " at war with himself," cf. supra 440 b and e 
(o-rdo-is), Phaedr. 237 d-e, and Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1099 a 13 f. 

" Cf. 397 E. 

* Cf. on 443 D-E, Vol. I. p. 414, note e\ also Phaedo 61 a, 
and What Plato Said, p. 485, on Laches 188 d. 

' 6\iyapxi-Kws keeps up the analogy betsveen the man and 

276 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

within," not persuading them that it ' is better not ' * 
nor taming them by reason, but by compulsion and 
fear, trembhng for his possessions generally." 
" Quite so," he said. " Yes, by Zeus," said I, " my 
friend. In most of them, when there is occasion to 
spend the money of othei^s, you ^vill discover the 
existence of drone-like appetites." " Most emphati- 
cally." " Such a man, then, would not be free from 
internal dissension. <= He would not be really one, but 
in some sort a double ** man. Yet for the most part, 
his better desires would have the upper hand over the 
worse." " It is so." "And for this reason, I presume, 
such a man would be more seemly, more respectable, 
than many others ; but the true virtue of a soul in 
unison and harmony ^ \vith itself would escape him and 
dwell afar." " I think so." " And again, the thrifty 
stingy man would be a feeble competitor personally 
in the city for any prize of victory or in any other 
honourable emulation. He is um\ilhng to spend 
money for fame and rivalries of that sort, and, fearing 
to awaken his prodigal desires and call them into 
alliance for the winning of the \ictory, he fights 
in true ohgarchical ^ fashion \vith a small part of his 
resources and is defeated for the most part and — finds 
himself rich ! » " " Yes indeed," he said. " Have 
we any further doubt, then," I said," as to the cor- 
respondence and resemblance'' between the thrifty 
and money-making man and the ohgarchical state ? " 
" None," he said. 

X. " We have next to consider, it seems, the origin 

the state. Cf. my " Idea of Justice," Ethical Record, Jan. 
1890, pp. 188, 191, 195. 

» i.e. he saves the cost of a determined fight. For the 
effect of surprise <•/. on 544 c, p. 239, note/. 

* ofUHorrjTi : ef. 576 c. 

277 



PLATO 

aK€TTriov, riva re yiyveraL rpoTTov yevo/xevr] re 
TTolov TLva ej^ei, Iv av rov rod roiovrov dv8p6s 
rpoTTOv yvovres TTapaar-qachp^ed^ avrov et? Kpicnv. 
'OfJLOuos yovv av, e^rj, rjfiLv avrols TTopevoi/xeda. 
OvKovv, ■^v S' iyo), fxera^dXXet puev rporrov rivd 
roiovhe e^ oXtyapxio-s els ^-qjJiOKpariav, hi dnX-qcrrLav 
rov TTpoKetjxevov dyadov, rov cos TrXovatcorarov 

C Selv yiyveadai; Ylois St/; "Are, olpiai, dp^ovres 
ev avrfj ol dpxovres Sid rd noXXd KeKrrjadai, ovk 
ideXovcriv e'ipyeiv vopup rcbv vewv oaoi dv dKoXaaroi 
yiyvcovrai, /Jirj e^elvai avrois dvaXiaKeiv re /cat 
diToXXdvai rd avrcijv, tva (Lvovp.evoi rd rojv roi- 
ovrcxiv Koi elaSavei^ovres en nXovaicvrepoi /cat 
evrijxorepoi yiyvcovrai. Uavros ye jxaXXov. Ovk- 
ovv SrjXov rjS-q rovro ev voXei, on TrXovrov rifidv 
/cat aco(j}poavvrjv dpia iKavcos Krdadai ev rois 

D TToXirais dSvvarov, dAA' dvdyKXj rj rov erepov 
dfieXeiv r) rov erepov; 'FiTTieiKcos, €(f>7], SrjXov. 
UapafieXovvres Srj ev rais oXiyapxiais /cat €(f)ievres 
dKoXaaraiveiv ovk dyevveis eviore dvdpcoTrovs 
TTevTjras rjvdyKaaav yeveadai. MaAa ye. Kdd- 
rjvrai S-q, oip,ai, ovroi ev rfj noXei KeKevrpcofievoi 
re /cat e^conXiafievoi, oi fiev 6(f>€iXovres XPea, ol 
8e drifioi yeyovores, ol he dfji(f>6repa, fiiarovvres re 
/cat eTTi^ovXevovres rois Krrjaapievois rd avrcbv 

E /cat rois dXAois, vecorepiapov epcovres. "Ecrrt 



" C/. Phileb. 55 c eis t^v Kpiaiv, Laws 856 c, 943 c. 
* The (TKO-n-bs or opos. Cf. on 551 a, p. 263, note e, and 
Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1094 a 2. 

278 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

and nature of democracy, that we may next learn the 
character of that type of man and range him beside 
the others for our judgement." " " That would at least 
be a consistent procedure." " Then," said I, " is not 
the transition from oligarchy to democracy effected 
in some such way as this — by the insatiate greed for 
that which it set before itself as the good,* the attain- 
ment of the greatest possible wealth ? " " In what 
way ? " " ^^^ly, since its rulers owe their offices to 
their wealth, they are not willing to prohibit by law 
the prodigals who arise among the youth from spend- 
ing and wasting their substance. Their object is, by 
lending money on the property of such men, and buy- 
ing it in, to become still richer and more esteemed." 
" Bv all means." " And is it not at once apparent 
in a state that this honouring of wealth is incom- 
patible with a sober and temperate citizenship,*^ but 
that one or the other of these two ideals is inevitably 
neglected." " That is pretty clear," he said. " And 
such neghgence and encouragement of licentiousness"^ 
in oligarchies not infrequently has reduced to poverty 
menof no ignoble quality.*" " It surely has." "And 
there they sit, I fancy, ^nthin the city, furnished with 
stings, that is, arms, some burdened ^^•ith debt, others 
disfranchised, others both, hating and conspiring 
against the acquirers of their estates and the rest of 
the citizens, and eager for revolution.^ " " 'Tis so." 

' Ackermann, Das Christliche bei Plato, compares Inike 
xvn. 13 "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon." Cf. also 
Laws 749 d-e, 797 e f,, 831 c. 

** oKoKaaTaivnv : cf. Gorg. 478 a, Phileb. 12 d. 

• Cf. Laws 832 a ovk d<f>veis. For the men reduced to 
poverty swelling the number of drones cf. F.urip. Here. Fur. 
5S8-592, and Wilamowitz ad loc. 

> Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1305 b 40-41, 1266 b 14. 

279 



PLATO 

ravra. Ot 8e brj ;^p7y)u,aTicrTat iyKvi/javres, ovSe 

8oKOVVT€S TOVTOVg Opdv, TWV XoLTTCtJV TOV del V7T- 

ciKovra eviivres dpyvpiov TirpcoaKovres, /cat tov 
TTarpos eKyovovs tokovs TroXXaTrXauLovs Kom^o- 
556 fjievoi, TToXvv rov Kr](l>rjva /cat tttcoxov ipLTTOiovai rfj 
TToAet. ria)? ydp, e(f)ri, ov ttoXvv; Ovre y eKelvrj, 
r]v 8 eyo), to roiovrov KaKov eKKaofxevov ediXovcriv 
OLTToapevvvvat, , etpyovres ra avrov ottol ti? ^ov- 
Aerat rpeTreiv, ovre r^Se, fj av Kara erepov vopuov 
TO, roiavTa Xverat. Kara Srj riva; "Oj /xer' 
eKelvov iari Bevrepos /cat dvayKa^ojv dperrjg 
iTTLfieXeladaL rovs TToXlras. ear yap eVt to) avrov 
KLvhvvcp ra rroXXd rts" rcov eKovaiatv ^vpi^oXaUov 

B TTpoardrrr) ^vpi^aXXeiv, ■xpr]piarit,oivro fiev av 
rjrrov avaiScbs iv rfj TToXei, eXdmo S' iv avrfj 
(f)VOLro raJv roiovrojv KaKwv, olcov vvv 8r} €L7Top,€v. 
Kat TToXv ye, rj 8' 6s. Nvv 8e' y', ec/jrjv iyco, 8td 
rrdvra ra roiavra rovs p-p-V Stj dp-)(op.evovs ovroi 
hiaridiaaiv iv rfj TToAet ot dp^ovres' acjids Be avrovs 
Kat, rovs avrojv dp' ov rpvcfxjovras fiev rovs veovs 
/cat dTTOvovs /cat Trpos rd rov ocopiaros /cat Trpos 

C TCI rrjs ^^Xl^> P'O'XaKovs 8e Kaprepelv TTpos ^Sovds 

" Cf. Persius, Sat. ii. 61 "o curvae in terras animae, et 
caelestium inanes," Rossetti, Niniveh, in fine, " That set 
gaze never on the sky," Dante, Purg. xix. 71-73: 
Vidi gente per esso che piangea, 
Giacendo a terra tutta volta in giuso. 
Adhaesit pavimento anima mea, etc. 

Cf. infra 586 a KeKvcpdres. Cf. also on 553 d for the general 
thought. 

* Cf. Euthyph. 5 c, Polit. 287 a, Aristoph. Peace 1051, 
Pint. 837, Eurip. Hippol. 119, I.T. 956, Medea 67, Xen. 
Hell. iv. 5. 6. 

* Or, as Ast, Stallbaum and others take it, " the poison of 

280 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

" Bat these money-makers with down-bent heads,* 
pretending not even to see * them, but inserting the 
sting of their money "^ into any of the remainder who 
do not resist, and harvesting from them in interest 
as it were a manifold progeny of the parent sum, 
foster the drone and pauper element in the state." 
" They do indeed multiply it," he said. " And they 
are not wilhng to quench the evil as it bursts into flame 
either by way of a law prohibiting a man from doing 
as he likes with his o%vn,'* or in this way, by a second 
law that does away -with such abuses." " \\Tiat law?" 
" The law that is next best, and compels the citizens 
to pay heed to xirtue.* For if a law commanded that 
most voluntary contracts / should be at the contractor's 
risk, the pursuit of wealth would be less shameless 
in the state and fewer of the e\'ils of which we spoke 
just now would grow up there." " Much fewer," 
he said. " But as it is, and for all these reasons, this 
is the plight to which the rulers in the state reduce 
their subjects, and as for themselves and their off- 
spring, do they not make the young spoiled ^ wantons 
averse to toil of body and mind, and too soft to stand 

their money." rirfxixTKorres suggests the poisonous sting, 
especially as Plato has been speaking of hives and drones. 
For ivUvres cf. Eurip. Bacchae 851 iuli . . . \v<y<Tav, " im- 
planting madness." In the second half of the sentence the 
figure is changed, the poison becoming the parent, i.e. the 
principal, which breeds interest, cf. 507 a, p. 96. 

^ Cf. on 552 A, Lav:a 92-2 e-923 a. 

' Cf. Protag. 327 d ava-yKa^ovaa dpeTrjs iirifj.e\eTffdai, Symp. 
185 B, and for i-riy-iKucdai cf. What Plato Said, p. 464, on 
Apol. 29 D-E. 

' For refusing to enforce monetarj' contracts cf. Laws 
742 c, 849 E, 915 e, and Newman ii. p. 254 on Aristot. 
Pol. 1263 b 21. 

' Cf. What Plato Said, p. 483, on Laches 179 d, and 
Aristot. Pol. 1310 a 23. 

281 



PLATO 

re /cat Avnag Kal dpyovg; Tt fiiju; Avtov^ 8e 
TrXrjv ;!^p7]/AaTicr/xoO raji^ aAAcoi' rjfjLeXrjKOTag, /cat 
ouSev TrXeLco eTTi/xeXetav TreTTOirjfievovs dpeTrjs t] 
rovs 7T€vqras; Ov yap ovv. Ovtoj Srj irap- 
eaKevaafievoi orav Trapa^aXXcoaiv dXXrjXots 61 re 
apxovres /cat ot apxap-^voi iq iv oBcov TTopeiais fi iv 
aAAaij TtCTt KoivojviaLs, t] Kara deojpiag rj Kara 
arpareias , rj ^vfxvXoL yiyvopLevoi rj avarparLcbrai, 

D f] /cat ev avrols rots KivSvvots dXX-qXovs dewpi€VOL, 
pLrjhafxfj ravrrj /cara^/aovcDrrat ot 7r€vr]r€s vtto rwv 
irXovaicxiv , aXXd TToXXaKi^ laxvos dvr]p vevrjs, 
rjXLcofievos , Traparaxd^ls iv p-axj) TrXovaico ea/cta- 
rpocfyqKOTi, iroXXas e^ovTi adpKas dXXorpias, iBj} 
dadfiaros re /cat dnopias fiearov, dp' otet avrov 
ovx rjyelaOai KaKta rfj cr<f>€T€pa TrXovrelv tovs 
roiovTovs, /cat dXXov aAAoi TrapayyeXXeiv, orav 

E iSta ^vyytyvcovrai, on dvSpes i^/xeVepot etat nap 
ouSeV; Ei5 otSa jxev ovv, €<f)r], eycoye, on ovroi 
TTOLOvaiv. OvKovv a)<J7T€p ucofia vocroiSe? p,LKpds 
poTTtjs e^codev Setrat TrpoaXa^eadai irpos to 
Kdfiveiv, €VLOT€ 8e /cat dvev tcov e^w araGid^ei 
avTO auT<S, ovtoj hrj /cat rj Kara rauro eKeivoj 
8t,aK€Lp,€inrj ttoXls aTro a/xi/cpas" Trpo^daecos, e^codev 
iTTayofxevcov rj tcov €T€pa>v ef oXiyapxovpievr)^ 
^ dvdpes ijfjL^Tepoi elcrl Trap ovSiv Baiter : yap ovSiv AFDM : 
SvSpes vij-iTepoi' Adam. 

o Cy. 429 c-D, Laches 191 d-e. Laws 633 d. 

* Cf. Tucker on Aesch. Suppl. 726. 

." Cf. Soph. Ajax 758 irepiacra Kavdvrjra crdifxara. 

"* For a similar picture cf. Aristoph. Frogs 1086-1098. 
Cf. also Gorg. 518 c, and for the whole passage Xen. Mem. 
iii. 5. 15, Aristot. Pol. 1310 a 24-25. 

' The poor, though stronger, are too cowardly to use force. 
For KaKiq. rrj ffcper^pa cf. Lysias ii. 65 KaKig. rrj avru/v. Rhesus 

282 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

up against pleasure and pain," and mere idlers ? " 
" Surely." " And do they not fasten upon them- 
selves the habit of neglect of everything except the 
making of money, and as complete an indifference to 
virtue as the paupers exhibit ? " " Little they care." 
" And when, thus conditioned, the rulers and the 
ruled are brought together on the march, in way- 
faring, or in some other common undertaking, either 
a religious festival, or a campaign, or as shipmates or 
fellow-soldiers or, for that matter, in actual battle, and 
observe one another, then the poor are not in the least 
scorned by the rich, but on the contrary-, do you not 
suppose it often happens that when a lean, sinewy, 
sunburnt * pauper is stationed in battle beside a rich 
man bred in the shade, and burdened with superfluous 
flesh, '^ and sees him panting and helpless** — do you not 
suppose he will think that such fellows keep their 
wealth by the cowardice * of the poor, and that when 
the latter are together in private, one \vill pass the 
word to another ' our men are good for nothing ' ? " 
" Nay, I know very well that they do," said he. " And 
just as an unhealthy body requiresbut a shght impulse^ 
from outside to fall into sickness, and sometimes, even 
^^^thout that, all the man is one internal war, in like 
manner does not the corresponding type of state need 
only a sUght occasion,' the one party bringing in'' allies 

813-814 ry ^piryd-v KaKcwSpig., Phaedrus 248 b, Symp. 182 d, 
Crito 43 E, Eurip. Androm. 967, Aristoph. Thesm. 868 rg 
KopcLKUv TTOvrjpiq.. 

' Cf. Soph. O.T. 961 (TfUKpa xaXoja ffiiuar ei/rdftt por^, 
"a slight impulse puts aged bodies to sleep," E)emosth. 
Olynth. ii. 9 and 21. Cf. 544 e. 

» Cf. Polyb. vi. 57. Montaigne, apud Hoffding, i. 30 
" Like every other being each illness has its appointed time 
of development and close — interference is futile," with Tim. 
89 B. » Cf. Thuc. i. 3, ii. 68, iv. 64, Herod, ii. 108. 

283 



PLATO 

TToXecos ^VfjLfjia)(iav -q tcov iripcDV ck hrjfxoKpaTOV- 
ixivrjs, voael re /cat avrrj avrfj {jLax^Tai, iviore 8e 
557 /cat avev ra>v efcu aracrta^ei; Kat a^ohpa ye. 
ArjfioKpaTia S?^, olfiai,, yiyverai, orav ot nevTqres 
VLKrjaavTes rovs pikv aTroKTeivcoat rcbv irepcov, rovs 
Se CKfidXcoaL, rots he XoittoIs e^ laov p.erahcx)ai 
TToAiTctas' re /cat dp^cov /cat (Ls to ttoXv ano 
KX-qpojv at dpxoX ev avrfj yiyvovrai. "Ecrrt yap, 
e(f)7], avrr] rj Kardaraais S-qfioKparia?, edv re Kai 
St' ottXcdv yevrjrai, edv re /cat Std (f)6^ov vrreg- 
eXdovrtov rdv erepcov. 

XI. TtVa Sr] ouv, '^v 8' eycv, ovrot rponov 

B oIkovol; /cat Trota ns rj roiavrrj av TToXireta; 

hriXov ydp on 6 roiovros dvnp hrjixoKpartKOS ris 

dva(f)avriaeraL. ArjXov, e(j)r^. Ovkovv Trpwrov [xev 

; 817 eXevdepoi, Kal eXevdepiag rj ttoXls piearrj Kat 

I Trapprjoias yiyverai, /cat e^ovaia ev avrf] TTOieZv 

o ri Tt? ^ovXerai; Aeyerai ye S-q, ecftr]. "Ottov 

8e ye e^ovaia, SryAov ort tStav eKaarrog av Kara- 

OKev-qv rod avrov ^iov KaraaKevd^oiro ev avrjj, 



" crrao-tdfet is applied here to disease of body. Gf. Herod. 
V. 28 vo(Tri<racra is to. /xaXiara ffrdcn, " grievously ill of faction." 
Cf. supra on 554 d, p. 276, note c. 

* Cf. 488 c, 560 A, Gorff. 466 c, 468 d, Prot. 325 b. Exile, 
either formal or voluntary, was always regarded as the proper 
thing for the defeated party in the Athenian democracy. 
The custom even exists at the present time. Venizelos, for 
instance, has frequently, when defeated at the polls, chosen 
to go into voluntary exile. But that terra, in modern as in 
ancient Greece, must often be interpreted cuyn grano salis. 

« e'f tffov: one of the watchwords of democracy. Cf. 561 b 

284 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

from an oligarchical state, or the other from a demo- 
cratic, to become diseased and wage war with itself, 
and sometimes even apart from any external im- 
pulse faction arises"? " " Most emphatically." "And 
a democracy, I suppose, comes into being when the 
poor, winning the victory, put to death some of the 
other party, drive out ^ others, and grant the rest 
of the citizens an equal share " in both citizenship 
and offices — and for the most part these offices are 
assigned by lot.*^ " " \Miy, yes," he said, " that is the 
constitution of democracy ahke whether it is estab- 
lished by force of arms or by terrorism * resulting in 
the withdrawal of one of the parties." 

XI. " What, then," said I, " is the manner of their 
life and what is the quality of such a constitution ? 
For it is plain that the man of this quahty will turn 
out to be a democratic sort of man." " It is plain," 
he said. " To begin with, are they not free ? and 
is not the city chock-full of Uberty and freedom 
of speech ? and has not every man licence ' to 
do as he hkes ? " " So it is said," he replied. 
" And where there is such licence, it is obxious 
that everyone would arrange a plan " for leading his 

and c, 599 b, 617 c. Lows 919 d, Jlc. I. 115 d, Crito 50 e, 
Isoc. Archid. 96, Peace 3. 

•* But Isoc. Areop. 22-23 considers the lot undemo- 
cratic because it might result in the establishment in oflSce 
of men with oligarchical sentiments. See Norlin ad loc. 
For the use of the lot in Plato <•/. Laws 759 b, 757 z, 690 c, 
741 B-c, 856 D, 946 b. Rep. 460 a, 461 e. C/. Apelt, p. 520. 

' Cf 551 B. 

' i^ovcria : cf. Isoc. xii. 131 riiv 5* i^ovalav 6 rt /Soi/Xerot t« 
■jTotuv €v8atfioviav. Cf. Arnold, Culture and Anarchy, chap. ii. 
Doing as One Likes. 

' KaraffKd'^ is a word of all work in Plato. Cf. 419 a, 
449 A, 455 A, Gorff. 455 e, 477 b, etc. 

285 



PLATO 

T^Ti? eKaoTov apeoKoi. l^ifKov. YlavrohaTTol 817 
C av, OLfiai, iv ravrr) rij TroAireio. ixaXiar ey- 
yiyvoivro dv9pa)7TOi. IloJs yap ov; KivSweyei, 
iqv S iyo), KoXkiarrj avrr] rcbv TroXireiaJv elvaf 
axTTTep Lfxdriov ttolklXov Trdaiv dvdeai ttcttolklX- 
fi€vov, ovTcx) /cat avTTj TTaatv rjOeai TrevoLKiXfjievrj 
KaXXiarT] dv ^aiVotro* koL lgcos fiev, '^v S' eyco, /cat 
Tavrrjv, ojunep ol TratSe? re /cat at yvvoLKes rd 
TTOLKiXa decofMevoL, KaXXiarrjV dv ttoXXoI Kpiveiav. 
D Kat fjidX\ €(f)r). Kat can ye, co jxaKapce, rjv 8' 
eyaj, e-mTrjSeLov ^Tyretv iv avrfj TToXtreiav. Tt Sij; 
Ort Trdvra yevrj 7ToXn€Ld>v e^^^et 8ta tt^v i^ovaiav, 
Kal KLvSvvev€i to) ^ovXofxevci) iroXiv /caraa/ccua^eti', 
o I'w 817 rjpicZs eTTOtovfiev, dvayKolov elvai els 
hrjiioKparovfxevriv iXOovri ttoXlv, og dv avrov 
apeoKji rpoTTOs, tovtov e/cAe^aa^at, axTTrep els 
TTavTOTTCoXtov d(/)iKOfJi€va) TToXireidiv, /cat e/cAe^a- 
fxevcp ovTCD KaroiKLl^eiv. "Ictoj? yovv, ecf>rj, ovk 
E dv aiTopoi 7Tapa8eLyjj.dT(x)v. To 8e fjLTjSefxCav dvdy- 
K7]v, etnov, etvai dp^ecv ev ravrr) rfj rroXei, firjS^ 



" TTavToSawos usually has an unfavourable connotation in 
Plato. Cf. 431 B-c, 561 d, 567 e, 559 d, Symp. 198 b, 
Gorg. 489 c, Laws 788 b, etc. Isoc. iv. 45 uses it in a 
favourable sense, but in iii. 16 more nearly as Plato does. 

For the mixture of things in a democracy cf. Xen. Rep. 
Ath. 2. 8 (pcovrj Kal diairri Kal <TX')t'-o.Ti. . . . ' Ad-qvaloi 8k kc- 
Kpa/xivy ef a.irdvTuii> twv 'EWrjfcjv Kai ^ap^dpuv ; and Laws 
681 D. Libhj% Introduction to History of Science, p. 273, 
says " Arnold failed in his analysis of American civilization 
to confirm Plato's judgement concerning the variety of 
natures to be found in the democratic state." De Tocqueville 
also, and many English observers, have commented on the 
monotony and standardization of American life. 
286 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

own life in the way that pleases him." "Obvious." 
"All sorts" and conditions of men, then, would 
arise in this polity more than in any other ? " " Of 
course." "Possibly," said I, "this is the most 
beautiful of polities ; as a garment of many colours, 
embroidered with all kinds of hues, so this, decked 
and diversified with every type of character, would 
appear the most beautiful. And perhaps," I said, 
" many would judge it to be the most beautiful, like 
boys and women * when they see bright-coloured 
things." "Yes indeed," he said. "Yes," said I, "and 
it is the fit place, my good friend, in which to look for a 
constitution." "Why so?" "Because, owing to this 
hcence, it includes all kinds, and it seems hkely that 
anyone who wishes to organize a state, as we were just 
now doing, must find his way to a democratic city and 
select the model that pleases him, as if in a bazaar "^ of 
constitutions, and after making his choice, establish 
his own." " Perhaps at any rate," he said, " he 
would not be at a loss for patterns." " And the 
freedom from all compulsion to hold office in such a 

* For the idea that women and children like many colours 
ef. Sappho's admiration for Jason's mantle mingled with all 
manner of colours {I-tyr. Graec. i. 196). For the classing 
together of women and boys cf. Laws 658 d. Shakes. As 
You Like It, iii. ii. 435 " As boys and women are for the 
most part cattle of this colour," Faguet, Xineteenth Century 
" Lamartine a 6te infiniment aime des adolescents serieux et 
des femmes distingu6es." 

' Cf. Plutarch, LHan 53. Burke says " A republic, as 
an ancient philosopher has observed, is no one species of 
government, but a magazine of every species." Cf. Laws 
789 B for an illustration of the point. Filmer, Patriarcha, 
misquotes this, saying " The Athenians sold justice . . ., 
which made Plato call a popular estate a fair where every- 
thing is to be sold." 

S87 



PLATO 

av T^? iKavos apx^tv, /xTySe ay dpx^aOai, eav firj 
^ovXrj, /AT^Se TToXe/jLelv TToXefiovvrcov, /xTjSe Glp-qvqv 
dyetv TOJv dXXojv dyovroiv, idv fxrj iTnOvfjifj? 
elprjvrjs, iirjdi' av, idv tls dp^^etv vofjiog ae 8ta- 
KojXvTj T] SiKct^eit', pi-qSev -^ttov koL dpx^i-v /cat 
558 Si/ca^eij^, idv avra> aoi iTrirj, dp* ov deaTreGia Kal 
rySeta r) TOiavrr) hiaycoyr] iv to) rrapavriKa ; ''lCTa>s', 
€(f>rj, ev ye tovto). Tt 8ai; rj TTpaorrjs ivicov rGiv 
SiKaaOevTiov ov KOfxifjij; ^ ovttco elSes iv roiavrr] 
TToXireia, dvdpcomov KaraifirjcfyiadivTcov Oavdrov 
T] (jivyrjs, ovSev "^ttov avTcbv jxevovratv re Kai 
dvaarpecfjopievcov iv fieaco, Kal u)s ovre <jipovril,ovT09 
ovre opdJVTOs ovSevos Trepivoaret coanep -qpojs; 
Kat TToXXovs y', ^4''r]- 'H 8e avyyvcofxr] Kal oj)S' 
B OTTCoaTiovv GficKpoXoyia avrrjs, dXXd KaTa(f)p6vrjaLs 
ojv r^fjiels iXeyofiev ae/JLVvvovres, ore T7]v ttoXiv 
u)Kil,op,ev, (vs el jxrj tls VTrep^€^Xr)fxevr)v (f)vaiv e-)(oi, 
ovttot' dv yivoLTO dvrjp dyados, el pbrj Trals cov 
evdvs TTai^oL iv KaXols Kal iTnTrjSevoL rd roiavra 



° Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1271 a 12 deT yap Kal ^ov\6fj.evoi> Kal fj.i] 
^ov\6fx,€vov dpx^i-v Tov d^iov TTJ9 dp%^s. Cf. 347 B-C. 

* Cf. Laws 955 b-c, where a penalty is pronounced for 
making peace or war privatelj', and the parodj' in Aristoph. 
Acharn. passim. 

' dLayuyri : cf. 344 E, where it is used more seriously of the 
whole conduct of life. Cf. also Theaet. Ill a, Polit. 274 d, 
Tim. 71 D, Laws 806 e. Aristot. Met. 981 b 18 and 982 b 24 
uses the word in virtual anaphora with pleasure. See too 
Zeller, Aristot. ii. pp. 307-309, 266, n. 5. 

** Cf. 562 D. For the mildness of the Athenian demo- 
cracy c/. Aristot. Ath. Pol. 22. 19, Demosth. xxi. 184, xxii. 51, 
xxiv. 51, Lysias vi. 34, Isoc. Antid. 20, Areopagit. 67-68, 
Hel. 37 ; also Menex. 243 e and also Euthydem. 303 d 8-qixoTi.Kbv 
288 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

city, even if you are qualified," or again, to submit to 
rule, unless you please, or to make war when the rest 
are at war,*" or to keep the peace when the others do 
so, unless you desire peace ; and again, the liberty, in 
defiance of any law that forbids you, to hold office and 
sit on juries none the less, if it occurs to you to do so, 
is not all that a heavenly and delicious entertainment " 
for the time being ? " " Perhaps," he said, " for so 
long." " And is not the placability ** of some convicted 
criminals exquisite * ? Or have you never seen in 
such a state men condemned to death or exile who 
none the less stay on, and go to and fro among 
the people, and as if no one saw or heeded him, the 
man shps in and out^ like a revenant^ r " "Yes, 
many," he said. " And the tolerance of demo- 
cracy, its superiority ^ to all our meticulous require- 
ments, its disdain for our solemn • pronouncements ^ 
made when we were founding our citv, that except 
in the case of transcendent * natural gifts no one could 
ever become a good man unless from childhood his 
play and all his pursuits were concerned with things 

Ti Kal irpq.ov iv roli X(ryotj. Here the word vpqbTijt is ironically 
transferred to the criminal himself. 

' KOfM^Tj: cf. 376 A, Theaet. 171 a. 

' For Tfpivoffrei cf. Lucian, Bis Ace. 6, Aristoph. Plut. 
121, 494, Peace 762. 

' His being unnoticed accords better with the rendering 
"spirit," "one returned from the dead" (a perfectlv 
possible meaning for jjpui. Wilamowitz, Platon, i. p. 435 
translates " Geist") than with that of a hero returning from 
the wars. Cf. Adam ad loc. 

For oi'S' 6vu}<TTLovv (rij.iKpo\o~/ia cf. on 533 b en dSvvanla. 
^e/ivvvovres here has an ironical or colloquial tone — 
" high-brow," " top-lofty." 

* C/. 401 B-c, 374 c and on 467 a. Laws 643 b, Delacroix, 
Psychologie d^ Vart, p. 46. 

* For vrep^e^Xrjfievr] cf. Laws 719 d, Eurip. Alcest. 153, 
VOL. II u 289 



PLATO 

TTOLvra, (hg fxeyaXoTrpeTTcos KaraTrarriaaa* arravra 

\ ravra ovSev (f)povTit,€i, i^ ottolcov dv rig eTTiTt]- 

< Sevfidrcov eVt to. ttoXltiko. ld)v TTpdrrrj, dAAd TLfxa, 

C idv (f>fj fjLovov evvous elvai rco TrXrjdei,. Ildvu y', 

kcjiT), yevvaia.^ Tavrd re hrj, €<f>rjv, €)(ol dv /cat 

TOVTcov dXXa a8eA(^d SrjfMOKpaTia, Kal etrj, d)s 

eoiKev, Tj^ela TToAtreia /cat dvap)(os Kal ttolklXtj, 

laoTrjTa riva ofioLcos taois re /cat dviaoLs Sia- 

ve/xovaa. Kat fidX , e<f>rj, yvcopipia Xeyeis- 

XII. "Adpei 87^, -^v S' eyd), ris 6 tolovtos iSi'a. 
Tj TTpcorov OKeTTTeov, oiOTTep TTjv TToXiTeiav eoKeipd- 
fieda, riva rpoTTOv yiyverai; Nat, e<j>r^. ^Ap' ovv 
ovx coSe; rov (f>ei8coXov e/cetVou /cat 6Xiyap)(iKov 
D yevoir' dv, olp-ai, vlos vtto tw rrarpl redpafifxevos 
ev TOLS eKeivov rjOeoLv; Ti yap ov; Bta Srj /cat 
ovTOS dpxojv Tcov ev avrcp rjSovdiv, oaai dva- 
Aa>Tt/cai jLteV, -y^p-qiiariaTtKal he fxrj, at 8r] ovk 
dvayKaiai KeKXrjvraL. AijXov, e(J)rj. BouAet oSv, 
•^v 8' eyu), Iva fx'q aKoreivios SiaXeycojxeda, Trpcorov 
opiacofieda rdg re dvayKaCovs eTndvfiLag /cat rag 
fx-q; BovXofMai, "^ 8' os. Ovkovv d? re ovk dv otoi 

^ yevvaia M, yevva^a AFD. 

"» fMeyaXoirpeww is often ironical in Plato. Cf. 362 c, Symp. 
199 c, Charm. 175 c, Theaet. 161 c, Meno 94 b, Polit. 277 b, 
Hipp. Maj. 291 e. 

^ In Aristoph. Knights 180 ff. Demosthenes tells the 
sausage-seller that his low birth and ignorance and his trade 
are the very things that fit him for political leadership. 

* C/. Aristoph. ^n/^/i<« 732 f., 741 and ^a««m. Andoc.iv. 
16 eHvovs T(p 5T7/it(f!. Emile Faguet, 3foralistes, iii. p. 84, saj^s of 
Tocqueville, " II est bien je crois le premier qui ait dit que la 
democratie abaisse le niveau intellectuel des gouvernements." 
For the other side of the democratic shield see Thucj'd. ii. 39. 

•* For the ironical use of yeyyaia cf. 544 c. Soph. 231 b, 
Theaet. 209 e. 
290 



I 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

fair and good, — how superbly " it tramples under foot 
all such ideals, caring nothing from what practices * 
and way of life a man turns to politics, but honouring 
him if only he says that he loves the people ! " " 
"It is a noble** polity, indeed! " he said. "These 
and qualities akin to these democracy would exhibit, 
and it would, it seems, be a delightful* form of 
government, anarchic and motley, assigning a kind 
of equahty indiscriminately to equals and unequals 
alike ! ^ " " Yes," he said, " everybody knows that." 
XII, " Observe, then, the corresponding private 
character. Or must we first, as in the case of the 
poHty, consider the origin of the type ? " " Yes," 
he said. " Is not this, then, the way of it ? Our 
thrifty " oligarchical man would have a son bred in 
his father's ways." " Why not ? " " And he, too, 
would control by force all his appetites for pleasure 
that are wasters and not winners of wealth, those 
which are denominated unnecessary." " Obviously." 
" And in order not to argue in the dark, shall we first 
define'' our distinction between necessary and un- 
necessary appetites*?" "Let us do so." "Well, 

* ^5e7a : cf. Isoc. vli. 70 of good government, roh xp^M^^ots 
ijSiovs. 

' Cf. What Plato Said, p. 634, on Laws 744 b-c, and ibid, 
p. 508 on Gor^. 508 a, Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1131 a 23-24, New- 
man, i. p. 248, Xen. Cyr. ii. 2. 18. 

" Cf. 572 c, Theogn. 915 f., Anth. Pal. x. 41, Democr. 
fr. 227 and 228, Diels ii.* p. 106, and Epicharm. fr. 45, 
Diels 1.3 p. 126. 

» Cf. What Plato Said, p. 485, on Laches 190 b, and p. 551, 
on Phaedr. 237 e. 

* Cf. 554 A, 571 B, Phaedo 64 d-e, Phileb. 62 e, Aristot. 
Eth. JS'ic. 1147 b 29. The Epicureans made much of this 
distinction. Cf. Cic. De fin. i. 13. 45, Tusc. v. 33, 93, 
Porphyry, Le abst. i. 49. Ath. xii. 511 quotes this passage 
and says it anticipates the Epicureans. 

291 



PLATO 

t' elfxev oLTTOTpeifiai,, SiKaicos civ dvayKalai KaXolvro, 
¥j Kat oaai aTToreXovixevai (h^eXovaiv rj^ds; tovtcov \ 
yap afM(f)OT€pojv i(f)L€adai, rjfxcov rfj (f)vu€i dvdyKT]' I 
559 T] ov; Kat fxdXa. ALKaicos Sr) rovro evr' avrals f 
ipovfiev, TO dvayKotov. AcKaicvs. Tt Sat; as ye ) 
Tis dTTaXXd^eiev dv, el fieXera) ck veov, /cat Trpos | 
ovSev dyadov evovaai Spioaiv, at 8e /cat rovvavriov, 
vdaas ravras el [xr] dvayKaiovs fj>aLp.ev elvai, dp* 
ov KaXwg dv Xeyoifiev; KaAaJ? fJiev ovv. Upo- j 
eXojjxeda St^ tl TTapdSeoyfxa eKar€pa>v, at elatv, Iva 
TVTTO) Xd^cofxev avrds; Ovkovv xPV' ^Ap' ovv 
ovx r) Tov (f)ay€iv fJi^xpt vyieias re /cat eve^ias /cat 
B avTov GLTOV T€ /Cat oifjov dvayKoios dv etr); Ot)uat. 
H ixev ye ttov tov airov /car dpi(f)6repa dvayKala, 
fj re (L^eXLjxo's fj re Travaai ^djvra ov Swart]. ^ 
Nat. 'H 8e oifjov, el ttji riva dx^eXcLav Trpog 
eve^lav Trapex^rai. Hdvv [xev ovv. Tt 84; rj 
TTepa rovrojv /cat dXXoiwv eSecrfxdrcov •^ roLovrcov 
emdvpLia, hvvarrj he KoXa^ofxevrj e/c vecov /cat 
TraiSevofievTj e/c rojv ttoXXojv diraXXdrreadaLy /cat 
pXa^epd fjiev acofiari, ^XafSepd Se tpvxfj Trpos re 
C (f>p6vr)aiv /cat to aa)(f>poveLv , dpa ye opdojs ovk 
dvayKaia dv KaXoiro; ^Opdorara p.ev ovv. Ovk- 
ovv /cat dvaAaJTt/cas ^cofxev elvai ravras, eKeivas 
Be ;;^/3i7/xaTt(TTt/cas" Sta ro xpf]'-'^l^ovs npog rd epya 
elvai; Tt /xt^v; Ovrco hrj /cat Trepl dfjipohiaiayv 
/cat rd)V dXXa>v ^riaopiev; Ovrco. 'A/a' ovv Kat 

^ Travcrai ^wvra ov Swarr; Hermann, iravaai ^wvra Swariq 
AFDM, firj iravcrai fcDjra dwarri Men., Burnet, vavcrai irei.v€>v- 
Ttts Athenaeus, naijaaadai ^wvtos dSi^j'aret Wilamowitz {Plafon, 
ii. pp. 385-386). 
292 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

then, desires that we cannot divert or suppress may 
be properly called necessary, and likewise those 
whose satisfaction is beneficial to us, may they not ? 
For our nature compels us to seek their satisfaction. 
Is not that so ? " " Most assuredly." " Then we 
shall rightly use the word ' necessary ' of them ? " 
" Rightly." " And what of the desires from which a 
man could free himself by discipline from youth up, 
and whose presence in the soul does no good and in 
some cases harm ? Should we not fairly call all such 
unnecessary ? " " Fairly indeed." " Let us select 
an example of either kind, so that we may apprehend 
the type." " " Let us do so." " Would not the 
desire of eating to keep in health and condition and 
the appetite for mere bread and relishes ^ be neces- 
sary ? " "I think so." " The appetite for bread 
is necessary in both respects, in that it is beneficial 
and in that if it fails we die." " Yes." " And the 
desire for relishes, so far as.it conduces to fitness ? " 
" By all means." " And should we not rightly pro- 
nounce unnecessary the appetite that exceeds these 
and seeks other varieties of food, and that by cor- 
rection " and training from youth up can be got rid 
of in most cases and is harmful to the body and a 
hindrance to the soul's attainment of intelligence and 
sobriety?" "Nay, most rightly." "And may we not 
call the one group the spendthrift desires and the 
other the profitable,"^ because they help production?" 
" Surely." " And we shall say the same of sexual 
and other appetites ? " " The same." " And were 

" Or " grasp them in outline." 
* For 6\l,oi> cf. on 372 c, \'ol. I. p. 158, note a. 
« For KoXa^ofjievn cf. 571 b, Gorg. 505 b, 491 e, 507 d. 
For the thought cf. also supra 519 a-b. 
■^ Lit. " money-making." Cf. 558 d. 

293 



PLATO 

ov vvv Srj KT](f>rjva (hvofjidi^ofjLev, rovrov iXeyofiev 
Tov TcDv roiovTCDV rjSovcbv Kal imdvixicbv yeixovra 
/cat apxojx^vov vtto r(i)v fXTj dvayKatcov, rov Be 

D VTTO Tcov dvayKaiiov (f>€iSo)X6v re /cat 6Xiyap)(tK6v 
AAAa TL fi'^v; 

XIII. naAtP" roivvv, rjv 8' iycL, Xeyconev, ojs i^ 
oX(,yap)((-Kov h-qpLOKpariKos ycyvcTai. ^aiverai 8e 
/xot rd ye iroXXd cSSe yiyveadai. Ylcbs; "Orav 
veos redpapfxevos coj vvv Srj eXeyop,ev, ctTratSeuTcos 
re /cat ^eiScuAcos', yevarjrai Krj(f)ijvo}V p^eXiTOs /cat 
^vyyivrjrat. aWojat drjpal /cat Setvots", navToSaTrdg 
rjSovdg /cat TTOt/ctAas' /cat Travroicos e)(Ovaas Svva- 
fxevoLg OKevd^eiv, evravdd ttov o'lov etvai dpx^jv 

E avrcp p.eTaPoXrjg oXiyapxi-K'fjs rrjs ev eavro) et? 
hiqpLOKpaTLKrjV } YioXXrj di'dyKt], e<j)'q. 'Ap ovv, 
oiOTTep 7] TToXis fxere^aXXe ^orjdrjadcrqg rip erepcp 
p,ep€i ^vpp,ax^cLS e^codev opLoias opLoico, ovroj /cat 
o veavias /xera^aAAei ^orjdovvros olv etBovs 
e7ndvp,ia)v e^todev rep erepco rcov Trap eKeivcp 
^vyyevovs re /cat opuoiov; YlavrdTraai p.ev ovv. 
Kat eaj^ pcev, oi/zat, dvri^orjd-qar) rt? rw ev eavrco 
oXiyapxtKO) ^vpcp^ax^OL, rj TTodev rrapa rod jrarpos 
560 T] Kal rcov dXXcov OLKetojv vovderovvrcov re /cat 
/ca/ct^op'Tajv, ardais Srj Kal dvricrraaig Kat, /xct^i^ 

^ So MSS. : fxera^oXTjs . . . dXiyapx^Kiji Burnet, yaera/SoXijs d\i- 
yapxtai , . . Sr]/j.oKpaTiap, or insert iroXireias after eavrc^ Adam. 
Jowett and Campbell suggest inserting i^ after /xera^oXijs. 

<• For y^novra cf. 577 D, 578 a, 603 d, 611 b, Gorg. 525 a, 
522 E, etc. 

* aWuv occurs only here in Plato. It is common in Pindar 
and tragedy. Ernst Maass, " Die Ironie des Sokrates," 
Sokrates, 11, p. 94 " Platon hat an jener Stelle des Staats, 
von der wir ausgingen, die schlimmen Erzieher gefahrliche 
Fuchsbestien genannt." {Cf. Pindar, 01. xi. 20.) , 

294 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

we not saying that the man whom we nicknamed the 
drone is the man who teems " with such pleasures and 
appetites, and who is governed by his unnecessary 
desires, while the one who is ruled by his necessary 
appetites is the thrifty oligarchical man ? " " Why, 
surely." 

XIII. " To return, then," said I, " we have to tell 
how the democratic man develops from the olig- 
archical type. I think it is usually in this way." 
" How ? " " WTien a youth, bred in the illiberal and 
niggardly fashion that we were describing, gets a taste 
of the honey of the drones and associates with fierce ^ 
and cunning creatures who know how to purvey 
pleasures of ever}- kind and variety " and condition, 
there you must doubtless conceive is the beginning of 
the transformation of the ohgarchy in his soul into 
democracy." " Quite inevitably," he said. " May 
we not say that just as the revolution in the city was 
brought about by the aid of an alliance from outside, 
coming to the support of the similar and correspond- 
ing party in the state, so the youth is revolutionized 
when a like and kindred** group of appetites from out- 
side comes to the aid of one of the parties in his soul? " 
" By all means," he said. " And if, I take it, a 
counter-alliance* comes to the rescue of the olig- 
archical part of his soul, either it may be from his 
father or from his other kin, who admonish and re- 
proach him, then there arises faction ' and counter- 

• Cf. on 557 c, p. 286, note a. 

" Cf. 554. D. 

' For the metaphor cf. Xen. Mem. i. 2. 24 idifdadv ^Ktiv(i> 
Xpw/u^vw ffv/j-naxv rCiv fj.r) KaXwv ixidvfuCjv Kparetv, "they 
[Critias and Alcibiades] found in him [Socrates] an ally who 
gave them strength to conquer their evil passions." (Loeb tr.) 

' Cf. *upra on 554 d, p. 276, note e. 

995 



PLATO 

eu avraj rrpos avrov rore yiyverai. Ti ^"qv; Kai 
770X6 {xiv, oi/xai, TO SrjfJLOKpariKOV VTrexcoprjae tw I 
o\iyap)(LKco, Kai rives rcbv eTndvfxiiuv at pikv 
hietfiddprjaav , at 8e /cat i^eneaou, alSovs tivos 
eyyevofxevqs ev rfj rod veov ipv^-^, Kai KarcKoap.'qdrj 
ttoXlv. Tiyverai yap eviore, '^4'1- Au^t? Se, 
ot)uat, TOJi' eKTreaovacov ^ttlOv}xl6l)v aAAat vtto- 

B Tp€(f)6pt,€vaL ^vyyevels St' dveTno'Trjfxoavvqv Tpo(f)rjs 
TTarpos TToAAat re /cat Icfxypal iyevovro. OtAet 
yovVy €<f)7], ovTU) yiyveadai. Ovkovv elXKVodv re i 
TTpos ra? aura? o/xtAtas', /cat XdOpa ^vyyiyvopLevai 
TrXrjdos ivereKov. Tt ^171^; TeAeyrcDcrat Soy, oljxai, 
KareXa^ov rrjv rod veov rTJs il/vxrjs aKpoTToXiv, 
atadojjievai Kevrjv pLadr^fidriov re Kai eTnrrjSevfjLdrcov 
KaXojv Kai Xoycov dXr]dcbv, ot Srj dpiaroi (f)povpoL re 

C /cat ^vXaKes iv dvSpoJv deoc^LXcov elal hiavoiais. 
Kai TToXv y , e(f>r]. WevSets 8r) Kai dXat,6ves, 
olpiai, Xoyoi re /cat Sd^at dvr^ e/cetVojv araSpa- 
fjiovres Karea^ov rov avrov ro-nov rov roiovrov. 
H(f)6hpa y , ^^V' '^Ap' ovv ov irdXiv re els eKeivovs 
rovs X(iiro(f)dyovs eXdcov (^avepa)s /carot/cet, /cat 
eav Trap olKeiojv ris ^o'qOeia ra> ^et5a>Aa> avrov 
rrjs ipv^rjs d(f)LKvrjrai, KXrjaavres ol dXat,6ves XoyoL 
eKeZvoi rds rod ^aaiXiKov rei^ovs ev avrco rrvXas 
U ovre avTTjv rrjv ^vpifxaxlav TtapLaaiv ovre Ttpea^eis 

" TLves . . . al fxh ... at 5^. For the partitive apposition 
cf. 566 E, 584 D, Gorg. 499 c. Cf. also Protag. 330 a, Gorg. 
450 c. Laws 626 e, Eurip. Hec. 1185-1186. 

" Cf. Tim. 90 A. 

"^ For the idea of guardians of the soul cf. Laws 961 d, 
supra 549 b. Cf. also on Phaedo 113 d. What Plato said, 
p. 536. <* Cf. Phaedo 92 d. 

" Plato, like Matthew Arnold, liked to use nicknames for 

296 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

faction and internal strife in the man with himself." 
" Svu-ely." " And sometimes, I suppose, the demo- 
cratic element retires before the ohgarchical, some 
of its appetites ha\ing been destroyed and others '^ 
expelled, and a sense of awe and reverence grows 
up in the young man's soul and order is restored." 
" That sometimes happens," he said. " And some- 
times, again, another brood of desires akin to those 
expelled are stealthily nurtured to take their place, 
owing to the father's ignorance of true education, 
and wax numerous and strong." " Yes, that is wont 
to be the way of it." " And they tug and pull back 
to the same associations and in secret intercourse 
engender a multitude." " Yes indeed." " And in 
the end, I suppose, they seize the citadel* of the yoimg 
man's soul, finding it empty and unoccupied by 
studies and honourable pursuits and true discourses, 
which are the best watchmen and guardians * in the 
minds of men who are dear to the gods." " Much 
the best," he said. " And then false and braggart 
words ^ and opinions charge up the height and take 
their place and occupy that part of such a youth." 
" They do indeed." " And then he returns, does he 
not, to those Lotus-eaters ^ and without disguise hves 
openly with them. And if any support ^ comes from 
his kin to the thrifty element in his soul, those brag- 
gart discourses close the gates of the royal fortress 
within him and refuse admission to the auxiliary 
force itself, and will not grant audience as to envoys 

classes of people; cf. Rep. 415 d y»ry«'«'«. Thecut. 181a 

piovra^. Soph. 248 a eibOiv <pi\ov^, Phileh. 44 e toTj Svffxfpi<T*-v. 
So .\mold in Culture and Anarchy uses Populace, Philistines, 
Barbarians, Friends of Culture, etc.. Friends of Physical 
Science, Lit. and Dogma, p. 3. 
f ^ovOfia I cf. Aristot. De cm. 4M a. 12. 

S97 



PLATO 

TTpea^vrepcov Xoyovg lSlojtcov^ clcrSexovTai, avroi re 

Kparovai fxaxopiGVoi, koI rrjv p,€v at'Sto rjXidLOTrjTa 

oi'Ofid^ovres wdovaiv e^co drLfKos <f)vydha, aa)(f)po- 

avvr^vSe dvavSptav KoXovvres re /cat TTpoTrrjXaKt^ovres 

€K^dXXovaL, ixerpiorrira Se /cat Koapuiav Sarrdv-qv 

COS dypoiKiav kol dveXevdepiav ovaav TTetBovreg 

VTTepopL^ovai fxerd TToAAtDi^ /cat dva)(f>€Xojv Ittl- 

dvfiLwv. lL(f)6Spa ye. Tovrcov Se ye ttov Kevw- 

E (Tavres Kal Kadrjpavres rrjv rod Karexofievov re 

vn avrcov /cat reXovfxevov ipvxrjv fjieydXoLcn reXeai, 

ro fxerd rovro tJStj v^pcv /cat dvap^ioiv /cat dacoriav 

/cat ai^atSetar Xafnrpds fierd ttoXXov )(opov /car- 

dyovaiv earecfjavcvfjievas, eyKOJixidtjOvres /cat vtto- 

Kopil,6pievoL, v^piv fxev eviraihevaiav KaXovvres, 

dvap^x^iav he eXevdeplav, dacoriav 8e fieyaXo- 

561 TTperretav, dvaihetav he dvBpeiav. dp ov^ ovrcu 

TTCOS, rjv 8' eyo), veos cov p,era^dXXei e/c rov ev 

dvayKaioi'S eTTLdvpnais rpe(^oyievov nqv rcov fxr] 

dvayKaLojv /cat dvco(f)eXa)v -qSovcov eXevdepcxiaw re 

/cat dveaiv; Kat fidXa y , r^ V 6s, evcxpyGis. "ZjJJ 

1 Badham, followed by Apelt, reads 5(' dJrwc. See Adam's 
note and Appendix IV. to Book VIII. 

" Cf. 474 D, Thucyd. iii. 82. Wilamowitz, Platon, i. 435-436 
says that Plato had not used Thucj^dides. But cf. Gomperz 
iii. 331, and What Plato Said, pp. 2-3, 6, 8. See Isoc. Antid. 
284 (TKiinrrfiv Kai fiifie^ffdai dwa/xivovs eiKpveh KoXovffi, etc., 
Areop. 20 and 49, Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1180 b 25, Quintil. iii. 
7. 25 and viii. 6. 36, Sallust, Cat. c. 52 " iam pridem equidem 
nos vera vocabula rerum amisimus," etc.. Shakes., Sonnet 
Ixvi., " And simple truth miscalled simplicity . . .," Thomas 
Wyatt, Of the Courtier'' s Life: 

As drunkenness good fellowship to call ; . . . 

Affirm that favel hath a goodly grace 

In eloquence; and cruelty to name 

Zeal of justice and change in time and place, etc. 
298 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

to the words of older friends in private life. And 
they themselves prevail in the conflict, and naming 
reverence and awe ' folly ' " thrust it forth, a dis- 
honoured fugitive. And temperance they call ' want 
of manhood ' and banish it with contumely, and they 
teach that moderation and orderly expenditure are 
'rusticity' and ' illiberality,' and they combine "with a 
gang of unprofitable and harmful appetites to drive 
them over the border.* " " They do indeed." " And 
when they have emptied and purged*^ of all these 
the soul of the youth that they have thus possessed** 
and occupied, and whom they are initiating with 
these magnificent and costly rites,* they proceed to 
lead home from exile insolence and anarchy and 
prodigality and shamelessness,resplendent^ in a great 
attendant choir and crowned ^vith garlands, and in 
celebration of their praises they euphemistically de- 
nominate insolence ' good breeding,' licence ' hberty,' 
prodigahty ' magnificence,' and shamelessness ' manly 
spirit.' And is it not in some such way as this," said 
I, " that in his youth the transformation takes place 
from the restriction to necessary desires in his educa- 
tion to the hberation and release of his unnecessary 
and harmful desires ? " " Yes, your description is 
most vivid," said he. " Then, in his subsequent life, 

* irrepopiiovaii cf. Laws 855 c vrepopiav (pirydSa, 866 d. 

* Cf. 567 c and 573 b, where the word is also used ironi- 
cally, and Laws 735, Polif. 293 d. Soph. 226 d. 

* voT^ouai is used of divine " possession " or inspiration 
in Phaedr. 244 z. Ion 533 e, 536 b, etc., Xen. Symp. 1. 10. 

* Plato frequently emplovs the language of the mvsteries 
for literarv effect. Cf. Gorg. 497 c, Symp. 210 a and 218 b, 
Theaet. 155 e-156 a. Laws 666 b, 870 d-e, Phafdr. 250 b-c, 
249 c, Phaedo 81 a, 69 c, Rfp. 378 a, etc., and Thompson 
on Meno 76 e. 

f Cf. Eurip./r. 628. 5 (Nauck), Soph. El. 1130. 

299 



PLATO 

8t], oLjJiaL, fxera ravra 6 toiovtos ovSev fidXXov els 
dvayicaCovs t] fxrj dvayKaiovs rjSovds dvaXiaKOiv Koi 
Xprjiiara /cat ttovovs /cat SiaTpi^ds' ciAA' idv 
evTVxy]s J} /cat /xiq nepa iK^aK)(€v6fj , dXXd rt /cat 

B TTpea^urepog yevo/xevos, rod ttoXXov dopv^ov Trap- 
eXOovTos, fiep-q re KaraSe^rjraL rcov eKTreaovrojv /cat 
roLs eTTeiaeXOovai fxr] oXov eavrov evSoj, els tcrov 
hrj TL Karaarrjoas rds rjhovds Stayet, rfj napa- 
TTiTTrovcrr] del toorrep Xa)(ovar) rrjv eavrov apXV^ 
TrapaStSovs, ecus dv TrXr]paj9fj, /cat avdis dXXr), 
ovSejxlav drLfxd^cov, dXX' e^ laov rpe^atv. Yidw 
ixev ovv. Kat Xoyov y , rjv 8' eyo), dXrjdrj ov 
TTpoaSexoixevos ovSe Trapiels els ro (f)povpiov, edv 

C ns Xeyr] cos at puev elcti rcov KaXoJv re /cat dyadcov 
eTnOvjJLLcov rjSovai, at 8e rcov Trovrjpcov, /cat rds p-^v 
Xprj eTTLrrjdeveiv /cat np^dv, rds Se KoXdt^eiv re koX 
hovXovadai' dAA' ev Trdat rovrois dvavevei re /cat 
ofioLas (f)7]acv diraaas eivai /cat rip,7]reas ef taov. 
H(f)6Spa yap, ecftrj, ovrco SiaKelfievos rovro Spa. 
OvKovv, rjv 8 eyco, /cat 8iat,fj ro /ca^' rjp,epav ovrco 
XO-pit,6pbevos rfj TTpoaiTLTTrovarj emdvpia, rore p,ev 
jxedvcov /cat KaravXovpevos, avdis 8e vSpoTTorcov 



' For the ironical Sv? cf. 562 d, 563 b, 563 d, 374 b, 420 e 
and on 562 e, p. 307, note h, 

* Cf. Phaedr. 241 a ixera^dKCov 6.\\ov dpxovTa in avrQ. 
For this type of youth cf. Thackeray's Barnes Newcome. 
For the lot cf. supra, p. 285, note d, on 557 a. 

" Notice the frequency of the phrase ef taov in this passage. 
Cf. 557 A. 

* An obvious reference to the Oorgias. Cf. Gorg. 494 e, 
Phileh. 13 B ff., Protag. 353 d ff., Laws 733. 

' The Greek says " throws back his head " — the character- 
SOO 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

I take it, such a one expends money and toil and time 
no more on his necessary than on his unnecessary 
pleasures. But if it is his good fortune that the 
period of storm and stress does not last too long, and 
as he grows older the fiercest tumult within him 
passes, and he receives back a part of the banished 
elements and does not abandon himself altogether 
to the invasion of the others, then he establishes and 
maintains all his pleasures on a footing of equality, 
forsooth," and so lives turning over the guard-house '' 
of his soul to each as it happens along until it is sated, 
as if it had drawn the lot for that office, and then in 
turn to another, disdaining none but fostering them 
all equally/ " " Quite so." " And he does not accept 
or admit into the guard-house the words of truth 
when anyone tells him that some pleasures arise 
from honourable and good desires, and others from 
those that are base,"* and that we ought to practise 
and esteem the one and control and subdue the 
others ; but he shakes his head* at all such admoni- 
tions and avers that they are all alike and to be 
equally esteemed." " Such is indeed his state of 
mind and his conduct." " And does he not," said I, 
" also hve out his life in this fashion, day by day in- 
dulging the appetite of the day, now wine-bibbing 
and abandoning himself to the lasci\Tous pleasing of 
the flute ^ and again drinking only water and dieting ; 

istic negative gesture among Greeks. In Aristoph. Acham. 
115 the supposed Persians give themselves away by nodding 
assent and dissent in Hellenic style, as Dicaeopolis says. 

' For the word KaTaiiKovfievo^ cf. 41 1 a. Laws 790 e, Lncian, 
Bis ace. 17, and for the passive Eur. I.T. S67. Cf. also 
Philetaerus, Philauhis, fr. 18, Kock ii. p. 235, Eur. fr. 187. 
3 fio\ira'iai S" r](T$eh toOt' del dripevfrai. For the type cf. Theo- 
phrastus, Char. 11, Aristoph. Wasps 1475 S. 

201 



PLATO 

jD Kal KaTLaxvaivojxevog, totc S' ay yy/Mva^d/xei/o?, 

I ecTTi 8' ore dpycbv Kal Trdvroiv dfxeXcov, Tore S' d)s 

I iv (f>L\o(yo(j>La StarpL^cov ttoXXolkls 8e TToXireverai, 

Kal dvaTTrjScbv o ri dv rvxj) Aeyet re Kal Trpdrrei- 

Kav TTore rivas TroXefXiKovs t.rjXoja'Q, ravrj) (jyeperai, 

Tj xP'^P'O-Tt'Or'TLKOvs , inl rovr' av, Kal ovre ris rafts" 

ovre avayKT] eTreariv avrov ro) ^tco, dAA' i^Sw re 

8rj Kal eXevOepiov Kal fxaKapiov KaXa)v rov fiiov 

E rovrov ;^pTyTat avro) Sia rravros. YiavraTTaaiv , rj 

S' OS, hieXrjXvdas ^iov laovofiiKov rivos dvSpog. 

OlfJ-ai Se ye, rjv 8' eyco, Kal TravroSaTTov re Kal 

1 TrXeiarajv rjdcov jxearov, Kal rov KaXov re koI 

I ttoikLXov, axjTTep eKeiviqv rrjv ttoXlv, rovrov rov 

dv8pa eii'ttf ov ttoXXoI dv Kal TToXXal IprjXcoaeLav rov 

^Lov, TTapaSeLy/xara TroXiretcbv re Kal rponoiv 

TrXelara iv avrco e^ovra. Ovrco yap, ecf)-q, eariv. 

562 Tt ovv ; rerdxOco rjjJiiV Kara SrjfjLOK par tav 6 

roiovros dvr^p, ojs SrjfioKparLKOs dpdcos dv irpoa- 

ayopevojxevos ; Terdxdco, ^(f>'>]- 

XIV, 'H KaXXiarr] hiq, rjv 8' eyco, TToXireia re 
Kat o KaXXiuros dvrjp XoLrrd dv r^jxiv etrj hteXdeZv, 
rvpavvis re Kal rvpavvog. Ko/xiSt^ y', e^^j. ^epe 
8t], rls rpoTTOs rvpavviSos, a> (f)iXe eraZpe, yiyverai; 
on jxev yap e/c hrjp,oKparias fjcera^aXXei, axeSov 
SrjXov. AtjXov. ^A/a' ovv rponov rivd rov avrov 

" Cf. Protag. 319 d. 

* For 6' Ti civ Tvxv cf. on 536 a, p. 213, note f, 8rav rvxv 
Eurip. Hippol. 428, I'.T. 722, Eurip. fr. 825 (Didot), oVou ai- 
Ti'xwo-ti' Xen. Oec. 20. 28, &v av tvxv^ Eurip. Tro, 68. 

" iravrooaTrSv : cf. on 557 C. 

" Cf. 557 D. 

' For the irony cf. 607 e tuv KaXQv iroXiretuv, supra 544 c 
yevvaia, 558 C ijdeia. 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

and at one time exercising his body, and sometimes 
idling and neglecting all things, and at another time 
seeming to occupy himself with philosophy. And 
frequently he goes in for pohtics and bounces up " and 
says and does whatever enters his head.^ x\nd if 
mihtary men excite his emulation, thither he rushes, 
and if moneyed men, to that he turns, and there is no 
order or compulsion in his existence, but he calls this 
bfe of his the hfe of pleasure and freedom and happi- 
ness and cleaves to it to the end." " That is a perfect 
description," he said, " of a devotee of equality." 
" I certainly think," said I, " that he is a manifold" 
man stuffed with most excellent differences, and that 
hke that city ^ he is the fair and many-coloured one 
whom many a man and woman would count fortunate 
in his life, as containing \vithin himself the greatest 
number of patterns of constitutions and qualities." 
"Yes, that is so," he said. "Shall we definitely 
assert, then, that such a man is to be ranged with 
democracy and would properly be designated as 
democratic ? " " Let that be his place," he said. 

XIV. " And now," said I, " the fairest * pohty and 
the fairest man remain for us to describe, the t}Tanny 
and the tyrant." " Certainly," he said. " Come 
then, tell me, dear friend, how t}'ranny arises.^ That 
it is an outgrowth of democracy is fairly plain." 
" Yes, plain." " Is it, then, in a sense, in the same 

' T<j Tp6xos , . . yiyvercu is a mixture of two expressions 
that need not be pressed. C/. Meno 96 d, Epist. vii. 
324 B. A. G. Laird, in Class. Phil., 1918, pp. 89-90 thinks 
it means " What rpon-os (of the many rpoirot. in a democracy) 
develops into a rporoi of tjTanny; for that tjranny is a 
transformation of democracy is fairly evident." That would 
be a recognition of what Aristotle says previous thinkers 
overlooked in their classitication of polities. 

303 



PLATO 

€K T€ oXiyapx^OLS SrjuoKparia yiyverai /cat eK 
B 8r]fioKpaTLas TVpavvls; Ila)s; Trpovdevro, rjv 
8' iyd), dyadov, koI St' ov 7) oXiyapxio. Kad- 
lararo — tovto S' ■^v ttXovtos^' rj yap; Nat. *H 
ttXovtov roivvv aTrXriaria /cat t] raJv aXXcov afii- 
Aeta 8ta ■)(prjiJiaTi,ap,6v avrrjv OLTrcoXXv. ^AXr^drj, 
€(f)r]. *Ap' ovv /cat o Sr]fjLOKpaTLa opt^erat dyadov, 
rj Tovrov aTrXriaria /cat Tavrrjv KaraXvei; Aeyei? 
8' avrrjv rC opC^eadat; Tr]v eXevdepiav, €lttov. 
rouro yap ttov iv hrjjjiOKparovixevrj rroXei aKovaais 
C dv COS ex^f- Te KaXXcarov /cat 8ta raura iv p.6vr) 
ravrrj d^iov oIk€lv oans <l)vaei iXevdepog. Ae- 
yerai yap 817, ecf)r], /cat ttoXv rovro ro prjp,a. 'Ap' 
oSv, rjv 8' iy(jo, orrep fja vuv Srj ipcjv, rj rov roiov- 
Tov dTrXrjarrla /cat r] rcov dXXwv dp^eXeia /cat rav- 
rr]v rrjv rroXireiav pieOiarrjai re /cat TTapaaKevdt,€t 
rvpavviSos Serjdfjvai; Ylcbg; e<f)rj. "Orav, oi/xat, 
SriixoKparovp^evrj ttoXis eXevdepiag Stipijaaaa KaKOJv 
D olvoxooiv rrpoararovvrcov rvxj], Kal iroppcorepoj 
TOV Siovros aKpdrov avrrjs fxeOvadfj, rovs dpxovras 
87), dv jjirj TTavv Trpdot cScti /cat TroXXrjv Trapexcoai 

^ ttXoi/tos F, vwipirXovTOS ADM, irov irXoOros Campbell, 
etirep ti irXovTos Apelt, vTr^pirXovros irXoOroi Stallbaum. 

" Their idea of good. Cf. supra 555 b trpoKeifxivov dyaffov. 
Of. Lmcs 962 e with Aristot. Pol. 1293 b 14 ff. Cf. also 
Aristot. Pol. 1304 b 20 ai fxiv odv dTj/xoKpariai fx-dXiaTa fiera- 
(idWov(n did ttjv tCjv BTjfjLayuywu daiXyeiap. Cf. also p. 263, 
note e on 551 b (6pos) and p. 139, note c on 519 c {(TKo-n-ds). 

* Cf. 552 B, and for the disparagement of wealth p. 262, 
note b, on 550 e. 

' Zeller, Aristot. ii. p. 285, as usual credits Aristotle with 
the Platonic thought that every form of government brings 
ruin on itself by its own excess. 

" Cf. Arnold, Culture and Anarchy, p. 43 " The central 

304 



I 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

way in which democracy arises out of oligarchy that 
tyranny arises from democracy ? " " How is that ? " 
" The good that they proposed to themselves " and that 
was the cause of the establishment of oligarchy — ^it 
was wealth,'' was it not ? " "Yes." " Well, then, the 
insatiate lust for wealth and the neglect of everything 
else for the sake of money-making was the cause of 
its undoing." " True," he said. " And is not the 
avidity of democracy for that which is its definition and 
criterion of good the thing which dissolves it " too ? " 
" What do you say its criterion to be ? " " Liberty,"* " 
I replied ; " for you may hear it said that this is best 
managed in a democratic city, and for this reason that 
is the only city in which a man of free spirit will care 
to Uve.* " " Why, yes," he replied, " you hear that 
saying everywhere." " Then, as I was about to 
observe,' is it not the excess and greed of this and the 
neglect of all other things that revolutionizes this con- 
stitution too and prepares the way for the necessity of 
a dictatorship ? " " How ? " he said. " Why, when a 
democratic city athirst for liberty gets bad cupbearers 
for its leaders' and is intoxicated by drinking too deep 
of that unmixed wine,'* and then, if its so-called 
governors are not extremely mild and gentle with it 

idea of English life and politics is the assertion of personal 
liberty." 

• Aristot. Pol. 1263 b 29 says life would be impossible in 
Plato's Republic. 

f ria . . . ipOiv : cf. 449 A, Theaet. 180 c. 
' Or " protectors," " tribunes," irpocrraTovvTuv. Cf. infra 
on 565 c, p. 318, note d. 

* Cf. Livy xxxLx. 26 " velut ex diutina siti nimis avide 
meram haurientes libertatem," Seneca, De henefic. i. 10 
"male dispensata libertas," Taine, Letter, Jan. 2, 1867 
"nous avons proclam6 et appliqu6 I'^galite . . . C'est un 
vin pur et genereux ; mais nous avons bu trop du notre." 

VOL. II X 305 



PI.ATO 

' Trjv iXevOeptav, KoXd^ei alriojfj.€vr] a»? [xiapovs re 

Kal oXiyapxi'KOvs . ApojcrL yap, e^iy, rovro. Tovs 

8e ye, elirov, rojv dpxovrcov KaTiqKoovs Trpo- 

TnrjXaKL^ei cos ideXoSovXovs re Kal ovBev ovras, 

TOVS Se dpxovras ixev dp^opuivois , apxcfievovs 8e 

dpxovcTLV ofioLOVs tSio, T€ Kal hy]p,oaia eTTaivel re 

E Kal rip-a. dp* ovk dvayKT] ev rotavrrj TToXei cttl 

Ttdv rd rrjs eXevdepias levai; Ylcos yap ov; Kat 

! Karadveadat ye, ■^v 8' eyo), w ^iXe, els re ras 

■ tSlas OLKias Kal reXevrdv fJiexpi' rdjv d-qpioiv rqv 

dvapxiav eixcjivopLevr^v . Wd)s, rj 8' os, ro roiovrov 

Xeyofxev; Olov, e<j)riv, Trarepa [lev eQil,eadaL Traioi 

ofioiov yiyveadat Kal cfto^eladai rovs vlels, vlov 8e 

TTarpi, Kal /x-qre alaxvveaOai fi-qre SeSteWi rovs 

563 yoveas, ti^a Brj eXevdepos '§' /xerot/cov 8e darco Kai 

darov fieroiKO) e^iaovadai, Kal ^evov cLcravrcos- 

Tlyverai, yap ovrcos, e(j)'iq. Tavrd re, rjv 8' eyo), 

Kal apLLKpd TOtaSe aAAa yiyverai- 8t8aa/caAos' re 

ev rGi roLOvroj (fiOLrrjrds (po^eirai /cat dcoTrevei, 



" fuapous is really stronger, " pestilential fellows." Cf. 
Apol. 23 D, Soph. Antig. 746. It is frequent in Aristo- 
phanes. 

^ For the charge of oligarchical tendencies cf. Isoc. Peace 
5\ and 133, Areop. 57, Antid. 318, Panath. 148. 

' Cf. Symp. 184 c, 183 a. Cf. the essay of Estienne de 
la Boetie, De la servitude volontaire. Also Gray, Ode for 
Music, 6 " Servitude that hugs her chain." 

" For ov8ev 6vTa% cf. 341 c, Apol. 41 e, Symp. 216 e. Gory. 
512 c, Erastae 134 c, Aristoph. Eccles. 144, Horace, Sat. 
ii. 7. 102 "nil ego," Eurip. LA. 371, Herod, ix. 58 oi'S^;'es 
ibvres. 

« Cf. Laws 699 e iirl iraaoLv eXevdeplav, Aristoph. Lysistr. 
543 iirl vav livai. Soph. El. 615 ds irdv (pyov. 

' Cf. 563 c, Laws 943 d. 
806 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK \III 

and do not dispense the liberty unstintedly, it chastises 
them and accuses theraof beins accursed'^ oligarchs.* " 
" Yes, that is what they do," he replied. " But those 
who obey the rulers," I said, " it reviles as willing 
slaves " and men of naught,** but it commends and 
honours in pubhc and private rulers who resemble 
subjects and subjects who are like rulers. Is it not 
inevitable that in such a state the spirit of liberty 
should go to all lengths * ? " " Of course." " And 
this anarchical temper," said I, " my friend, must 
penetrate into private homes and finally enter into 
the ver}" animals.^ " " Just what do we mean by 
that ? " he said. " \\Tiy," I said, " the father habitu- 
ally tries to resemble the child and is afraid of his 
sons, and the son hkens himself to the father and 
feels no awe or fear of his parents,^ so that he may be 
forsooth a free man.'* And the resident alien feels him- 
self equal to the citizen and the citizen to him, and the 
foreigner Ukewise." " Yes, these things do happen," 
he said. " They do," said I, " and such other trifles 
as these. The teacher in such case fears and fawns 

' A common conservative complaint. C/.lsoc. Areop.4,9t 
Aristoph. Clauds, 998, 1321 ff., Xen. Rep. Ath. 1. 10, Mem. 
iii. 5. 15 ; Newman i. pp. 174 and 339-340. Cf. also Renan, 
Souvenirs, xviii.-xx., on American vulgarity and liberty; 
Harold Lasswell, quoting Bryce, " Modern Democracies," 
in Methods of Social Science, ed. by Stuart A. Rice, p. 376 : 
" The spirit of equality is alleged to have diminished the 
respect children owe to parents, and the young to the old. 
This was noted by Plato in Athens. But surely the family 
relations depend much more on the social, structural and 
religious ideas of a race than on forms of government"; 
Whitman, '" Where the men and women think lightly of the 
laws . . . where children are taught to be laws to themselves 
. . . there the great city stands." 

* For the ironical tva. dri cf. on 561 b. Cf. Imws 962 e 
iXevdipov &rj, Meno 86 d and Aristoph. Clouds 1414. 

307 



PLATO 

(poiTTjTai re BiSaaKaXojv oXiycopovaiv, ovtco Be /cat 
! TTatSaYCoycbv /cat oXcos ol fxkv vioi TrpeafivripoLS 
' aTrei/ca^oi'Tat /cat hiaiiiXXwvTai /cat eV Adyot? /cat 
er kpyoLSy ot 8e yepovres ^vyKadievres Tot? veois 
B evrpaTTeXias re /cat ;;^a/)tevTtcr/xo£' ipLTTLTrXavTat, 
fMifiovfievoL Tovs veovs, tva Stj pbrj BoKaJatv aTjBels 
eLvai fi-qSe BeairoTLKoi. Xldvv [lev ovv, e^^y- To 
Se ye, rjv S' eyco, ea)(o.Tov, o) (fiiXe, rrj'S iXevdeplas 
Tov 7tXt]9ovs, oaov yiyveraL iv rfj roiavrrj rroXei, 
brav Br) ol icovqfievot /cat at iojvrjixevaL purjBev 
rjTTOV eXevdepoi cucrt rwv Trpta/xeVoiv. iv yvvai^l 
Be Trpos avBpas /cat dvBpdaL Trpos yvvaiKas oarj rj 
laovopiia /cat eXevdepia yiyveTai, oXiyov cTreXado- 
C fied^ eiTrelv. Ovkovv /car' AlaxvXov, ecj}-/], epov- 
fxev 6 Tt vvv rjXd^ errl aropia; Yldvv ye, eiTrov. 
Kai eyojye ovtco Xeyco' to ptev yap tcov drjpiojv 
Ta)v VTTO TOLS dvdpwTTOLS oooj iXevOepcoTepd eoTiv 
evTavda tj ev dXXrj, ovK dv tis neldoiTO direipos. 
aTexvdJs yap at re Kvves /caret ttjv TrapoipLiav 
olaLTrep at Seo-TrotP'at yiyvovTai re Br] /cat mTroi /cat 
ovoL, iravv eXevdepojs Kal aefivcos eldiopievoi TTopev- 
eadai, Kara Ta? oBoi)^ ep^dXXovTes Tip del dTrav- 
TcovTL, edv piTj e^LGTrjTai' /cat TaXXa rrdvTa ovtco 



" Cf, Protag. 336 a, Theaet. 174 a, 168 b. 

* For eirpaireXlas cf. Isoc. xv. 296, vii. 49, Aristotle, Eth. 
Nic. 1 108 a 24. In Met. 1389 b 1 1 he defines it as Treiraidev- 
jjiivr) ii^pis. Arnold once addressed the Eton boys on the word. 

" Cf. Xen. Rep. Ath. 1. 10 rCiv dovXuiv 5' a5 Kai rdv ixeroiKwu 
nXeiaTTj icxTiv 'Adi'jvrjacv cLKoXaaia, Aristoph. Clouds init., and 
on slavery Laws 777 e, supra p. 249, note g on 547 c and 
549 A. 

" Nauck fr. 351. Cf. Plut. Amat. 763 b, Themist. Orat. 
iv. p. 52 B ; also Otto, p. 39, and Adam ad loc. 
308 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

upon the pupils, and the pupils pay no heed to the 
teacher or to their overseers either. And in general 
the young ape their elders and vie with them in 
speech and action, while the old, accommodating** 
themselves to the young, are full of pleasantry * and 
graciousness, imitating the young for fear they may 
be thought disagreeable and authoritative." " By all 
means," he said. " And the climax of popular liberty, 
my friend, "I said, "is attained in sucha citywhenthe 
purchased slaves, male and female, are no less free " 
than the owners who paid for them. And I almost 
forgot to mention the spirit of freedom and equal 
rights in the relation of men to women and women to / 
men." "Shall we not, then," said he, " in Aeschylean 
phrase,*^ say ' whatever rises to our lips ' ? " " Cer- 
tainly," I said, " so I will. Without experience of it 
no one would beheve how much freer the very beasts * 
subject to men are in such a city than elsewhere. The 
dogs hterally verify the adage ^ and ' hke their mis- 
tresses become.' And likewise the horses and asses 
are wont to hold on their way with the utmost free- 
dom and dignity, bumping into everyone who meets 
them and who does not step aside.^ And so all things 

' C/. 56'2 E, Julian, Misopogon, 355 b . . . fuxp'- ^w** S"'^'' 
iariv i\ev6fp:a nap avrois Kai tQ}v KafiriXuv ; dyoviri roi Kal 
rairras oi fuaOuiTol Sia rCov (ttoQv uffirep rds vvn<pas, "... 
what great independence exists among the citizens, even 
down to the very asses and camels '; The men who hire them 
out lead even these animals through the porticoes as though 
they were brides." (Loeb tr.) Cf. Porphyry, Vit. Pythag. 
Teubner, p. 22, § 23 At^x/" ''^"' '''^'' oXirydiv ^ipwv SuKvelro avrov 

J] VOvO^TTjaiS. 

* Otto, p. 1 19. Cf. " Like mistress, like maid." 

" Eurip. Ion 635-637 mentions being jostled off the street 

by a worse person as one of the indignities of Athenian city 

life. 

S09 



PLATO 

D fieara cXevdeplas yiyveTat. To i/xov y' , €cf)rj, ifxol 
Aeyeis ovap- avrog yap et? dypov Tropevofxevos 
dajxa avTO irdaxo). To Se h-h Ke(f)dXaLOv, rjv 8' 
eyoj, navTcov rovrcov ^vvrjdpoLafievojv evvoeis, cos 
arraXrjv rrjv tpvxrjv twv ttoXltcop 7toi€l, ware kov 
OTLovv SovXeias ris ■npoa(f)epr]Tai, dyavaKTelv Kal 
[XT) dvex^adaL; reXevrcovres yap ttov otad' otl 
ovoe ToJv v6p,cov (f>povTL^ovat yeypapLpidvojv rj 

^ aypd(f>(X)v, Iva hrj fxr]8afxf] jxr^Bels avrols fj SeaTTOTr]^. 
Kal fxdX', €<^rj, ol8a. 

XV. AvTT] fxev Toivvv, rjv 8' eyo), c5 ^t'Ae, r] 
("■PXV ovTCoal KaXr) Kal veaviKrj, o9ev rvpavvls 
(f)V€Tai, (x)s ipLol BoKel. Neavt/ci) SrJTa, €(f)iq- dAAa 
Ti TO fxera tovto; Tavrov, rjv 8' iyco, oirep iv rfj 
oXiyapxia voarjfxa iyyevo/xevov dTTcoXeaev avTrjv, 
TOVTO Kat iv TauTTj irXiov re /cat laxvpoTcpov eK 
TTJs e^ovaias iyyevofievov /caraSouAourat hrjpLO- 
KpaTLav Kal tw ovti to dyav ti Troietv fxeydXrjv 



° Cf. the reflections in Laws 698 f., 701 a-c, Epist. viii. 
354 D, Gorg. 461 e; Isoc. Areop. 20, Panath. 131, Eurip. 
Cyclops 120 OLKoveL 5' oi)5tV oi)5eis oi)5e«'6s, Aristot. Pol. 
1295 b 15 f. 

Plato, by reaction against the excesses of the ultimate 
democracy, always satirizes the shibboleth " liberty " in the 
style of Arnold, Iluskin and Carlyle. He would agree with 
Goethe (Eckermann i. 219, Jan. 18, 1827) " Nicht das niacht 
frei, das wir nichts iiber uns erkennen wollen, sondern eben, 
dass wir etwas verehren, das iiber uns ist." 

Libby, Introd. to Hist, of Science, p. 273, not understand- 
ing the irony of the passage, thinks much of it the unwilling 
tribute of a hostile critic. 

310 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

everywhere are just bursting with the spirit of 
liberty." " " It is my own dream^ you are telling me," 
he said ; "for it often happens to me when I go to 
the country." " And do you note that the sum total 
of all these items when footed up is that they render 
the souls of the citizens so sensitive <= that they chafe 
at the slightest suggestion of ser\-itude <* and will not 
endure it ? For you are aware that they finally pay 
no heed even to the laws* written or unwritten/ so 
that forsooth they may have no master anywhere 
over them." " I know it very well," said he. 

XV. " This, then, my friend," said I, " is the fine 
and vigorous root from which tjnranny grows, in my 
opinion." " Vigorous indeed," he said ; " but what 
next ? " "The same malady," I said, " that, arising 
in oligarchy, destroyed it, this more widely diffused 
and more \iolent as a result of this licence, enslaves 
democracy. And in truth, any excess is wont to 

In Gorg. 48i a Callicles sneers at equality from the point 
of view of the superman. Cf. also on 558 c, p. 291, note/; 
Hpbbes, Leviathan xxi. and Theopompiis's account of 
democracy in Byzantium, fr. 65. Similar phenomena 
may be observed in an American city street or Pullman 
club car. 

> Cf. Callimachus, Antlu Pal. vi. 310, and xii. 148 /x?? X^76 
, . . Toirfidv dvftpov ifioi, Cic. A^t. vi. 9. 3, Lucian, Somnium 
sen Gallus 7 wcTrep yap Tovfxbv ivvvviov iSJif, Tennyson, 
*' Lucretius " : " That was mine, my dream, I Ijnew it." 

' This sensitiveness, on which Grote remarks witli approval, 
i«; characteristic of present-day American democracy. Cf. 
also Arnold, Culture and Anarchy, p. 51 "And so if he is 
stopped from making Hj'de Park a bear garden or the 
streets impassable he says he is being butchered by the 
aristocracy.*' 

'' Cf. Gory. 49 1 e SovXevwv oti^ovv. Laws 890 a. 

* Cf. Laws 701 B ySfjuov j^Tjrtir /ivj v»-ij(c6ots cZi'ai. 

' For unwritten law ef. What Plato Said, p. 637, on Laws 
793 a. 

311 



PLATO 

<j>iAel els rovvavTiov fxera^oXrjV avTaTToSiSovai, iv 
5^4 copais re /cat ei' ^vrois koL iv aco^aai, /cat §17 /cat 
ev TToXireiais ovx ly/ctara. Et/cos", e^^. 'H yap 
dyav eXevdepia eoiKev ovk els aXXo ti rj els ayav 
hovXeiav pLera^dXXeiv /cat ISlcott) /cat TroXei. 
Et/coj yap. Et/coTco? roLvvv, emov, ovk i^ dXXrjs 
TToXireias rvpavvls KadiararaL r^ e/c 8rj [xok par tas, 
e^ olfjiai, rrjs aKpordrrjs eXevdepias SovXeta irXelaTr) 
re /cat dypicordrrj. "E;^et ydp, e<f)r}, Xoyov. 'AAA' 
ov rovr , olfiai, '^v S' eyd), rjpcoras, aAAo. ttolov 

B vocrrjixa iv oXiyapxlo- re (f)v6ixevov ravrov /cat iv 
SrjixoKparla SovXovrai avr-qv. 'AXyjdrj, e(/)r], Xeyeis. 
'E/ceti^o roLvvv, e(f)r]v, eXeyov, ro rdJv dpydjv re /cat 
SaTTavrjpcbv dvSpoJv yevos, ro fxev dvSpeiorarov 
'qyovfievov avrcbv, ro S' dvavSporepov enopLevov 
ovs Srj d(f)a}pioiovp,ev Krj(f)7Jat., rovs piev Kevrpa 
exovat, rovs Se dKevrpois. Kat 6pda)s y', ^tfiit]. 
Tovroi roivvv, rjv 8' eyd), rapdrrerov iv Trdcrr) 
TToXtreia iyyiyvopievo), olov Trepl ad)p,a ^XeypLa re 

C '<ctt xo'^V' d) Srj /cat Set rov dyadov larpov re /cat 
vop,o6eriqv TToXeoJS f-irj rjrrov t] ao(ji6v pLeXirrovpyov 

" Cf. Lysias XXV. 27, Isoc. viii. 108, vii. 5, Cic. De rep. i. 44 
" nam ut ex nimia potentia principum oritur interitus prin- 
cipum, sic hunc nimis libeium ..." etc. ; Emerson, History, 
" A great licentiousness treads on the heels of a reformation." 
Cf. too Wacaulay on the comic dramatists of the Restoration ; 
Arnold, Lit. and Dogma, p. 322 " After too much glorifica- 
tion of art, science and culture, too little; after Rabelais, 
George Fox ; " Tennyson : 

He that roars for liberty 
Faster binds the tyrant's power. 

See Coleridge's Table Talk, p. 149, on the moral law of 
312 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

bring about a corresponding reaction" to the opposite 
in the seasons, in plants, in animal bodies,* and most 
especially in political societies." " Probably," he said. 
" And so the probable outcome of too much freedom 
is only too much slavery in the individual and the 
state." "Yes, that is probable." "Probably, then, 
tyranny develops out of no other constitution*' than 
democracy — from the height of liberty, I take it, the 
fiercest extreme of servitude." "That is reasonable," 
he said. " That, however, I beheve, was not your 
question,"* but what identical* malady arising in demo- 
cracy as well as in oBgarchv enslaves it? " "You say 
truly," he replied. " That then," I said, " was what I 
had in mind, the class of idle and spendthrift men, 
the most enterprising and vigorous portion being 
leaders and the less manly spirits followers. We were 
likening them to drones,' some equipped i^ith stings 
and others stingless." " And rightly too," he said. 
" These two kinds, then," I said, " when they arise 
in any state, create a disturbance Uke that produced 
in the body ' by phlegm and gall. And so a good 
physician and lawgiver must be on his guard from afar 

polarity, fimile Faguet says that this law of reaction is the 
only one in which he believes in Uterary criticism. 

* For the generalization cf. Symp. 188 a-b. 

' Cf. 565 D. The slight exaggeration of the expression is 
solemnly treated by Apelt as a case of logical false con- 
version in Plato. 

'' Plato keeps to the point. Cf. on 531 c, p. 193, note ». 

' TaiToj/ implies the concept. Cf. Parmen. 130 d, Phileb. 
34 E, 13 B, Sfrph. 253 d. Cf. also Tim. 83 c, Meno 72 c. 
Rep. 339 A. 

' Gf. 555 D-E. 

» Cf. the parallel of soul and body in 444 c f.. Soph. 227 e, 
Crito 47 D f., G<yrg. 504 e-c, 505 b, 518 a, 524 d. 

For <p\itfjia cf. Tim. 83 c, 85 a-b. 

313 



PLATO 

TToppcodev evXa^eladai, [xaXiara [xev ottojs /at? 
eyyevrjaeadov, dv 8e iyyevrjadov , ovcos o ri ra- 
Xf'<yTa ^vv avTOiai rot? Krjpiois eKTerfxijcrecrOov. 
Nat fia Ata, t^ 8' os, TTavrdiraai ye. ^£lhe tolvvv, 
rjv 8' eyo), Xd^cofjiev, tv^ evKpcvearepov i8a>/Aev o 
^ovXoi^eda. Ilois'; Tpixj] hiaoTqadipieda to) Xoyco 
S7]ixoKpaTovfji€vr]v ttoXlv, axTTTcp ovv /cat ex^i" ^v 

J) fiev yap ttov to tolovtov yivos iv avrfj e/x^uerai 
St' i^ovaiav ovi< eXarrov 7} iv T-fj oXiyapxovixevjj . 
EcTTtv ovTCos. rioAu Se ye hpipivrepov ev ravrr) rj 
iv eKeivrj. IlaJS'; 'E/cet puev Sto, to per] evrtfiov 
etvai, aAA' oLTreXavveGdai, rcov dpxcov, dyvpLvaarov 
/cat ovK eppoipievov ylyveraL' iv Sr)p,oKparLa 8e 
TOVTo TTOV TO TTpoeoTOS avTTJs, e/CTo? oXiycov, 
/cat TO fjLev SpipLVTaTOv avTov Xiyei Te /cat irpaTTei, 
TO 8' a'AAo TTepi rd ^rjixaTa TTpoait,ov ^ojifiel Te /cat 

E OVK dvixeTai tov d'AAa Aeyoi'TOS', cocttc vavTa vno 
Tov TOLOVTOV 8tot/cetTat iv Tjj TotavTrj iroXiTeia 
XfJ^ph TLvcov oXlycov. MaAa ye, -^ 8' og. "AAAo 
TOLVVV TOtdi'Se aet drroKpLveTaL iK tov ttX-^Oovs. 

To TTOLOV; ^p'r]pLaTLt,Ofl€V(x)V TTOV TrdvTOiV OL 

KocrpLLCoTaTOL (jyvaeL (lis to ttoXv TrXovoLcoTaTOL 
yiyvovTaL. Ei/co?. IlAeto-To;' 817, olixaL, tols 
Kr](f)rjai pueXL /cat evTTopcoTaTOV ivTevdev ^AtTxeTat. 
Ucog yap dv, e(f)r], Trapd ye tcov apLLKpd ixovTcov 



« ,ud\i(7Ta nev . . . a.- 5^: c/. 378 a, 414 c, 461 c, 473 b, 
Apol. 34 A, Soph. 246 d. 

* For evKpLviffTepov cf. Soph. 243 c. 

* Cf. Phileb. 23 c, which Stenzel says argues an advance 
314 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

against the two kinds, like a prudent apiarist, first and 
chiefly " to prevent their springing up, but if they do 
arise to have them as quickly as may be cut out, cells 
and aU." *' Yes, by Zeus," he said, " by all means." 
"Then let us take it in this way," I said, "so that 
we may contemplate our purpose more distinctly.* " 
"How.'" " Let us in our theory make a tripartite'' 
division of the democratic state, which is in fact its 
structure. One such class, as we have described, grows 
up in it because of the licence, no less than in the 
oligarchic state." "That is so." " But it is far fiercer 
in this state than in that." "How so?" "There, be- 
cause it is not held in honour, but is kept out of office, 
it is not exercised and does not grow vigorous. But 
in a democracy this is the dominating class, ^vith rare 
exceptions, and the fiercest part of it makes speeches 
and transacts business, and the remainder swarms 
and settles about the speaker's stand and keeps up a 
buzzing <* and tolerates* no dissent, so that everything 
with slight exceptions is administered by that class 
in such a state." " Quite so," he said. " And so from 
time to time there emerges or is secreted from the 
multitude another group of this sort." "What sort?" 
he said, " WTien all are pursuing wealth the most 
orderly and thrifty natures for the most part become 
the richest." "It is likely." "Then they are the 
most abundant supply of honey for the drones, and 
it is the easiest to extract.^ " " Why, yes," he said, 
" how could one squeeze it out of those who have 

over the Sophist, because Plato is no longer limited to a 
bipartite division. <* C/. 573 a. 

' dv^x^o-i-i cf. Isoc. viii. 14 5rt SrifioKpaTiai oCa-rji ovk l<rrt 
Tappriffla, etc. For the word cf. Aristoph. Ackam. 305 oiiK 
ivacTXTftcro/jLai, Wasps 1337. 

•^ For pXlmrai cf. Blaydes on Aristoph. Knights 79-t. 

315 



PLATO 

TLS ^Xiaeiev; XWovaioi hrj, ol/Jiai, oi roiovroi 
KaXovvrai, Krj(j)'ijv(i>v ^ordvn). Yt^^hov ri, €(f>'q. 
665 XVI. ArjfjLO? S' ai^ eirj rpirov yevog, oaoi avr- 
ovpyoi T€ Kal air pay ixoves, ov Travv TroAAa KeKrr]- 
fjievoL' o Srj TrXelarov re Kal Kvpnorarov ev 
SrjfiOKpaTLa, orav rrep ddpotadfj. "Eart yap, €(f)7]' 
aAA' ov dajxd eOiXei iroLeZv tovto, idv firj ixIXltos 
rt [xeTaXaix^avrj . Ovkovv [xeTaXafi^dvei, rjv 8 
eyoj, del, KaB^ oaov SwatiTat ol Trpoearajres, rovs 
exovras rrjv ovaiav d(f>aipovjxevoL, Siavefiovres Tip 
S-qfxtp TO TrXeZoTOV avrol ex^iv. MeraXapi^aveL 
B yap ovv, rj S' OS, ovtcos. ' AvayKdt,ovrai, 817, 
otpLai, dpLVveardai, Xeyovres re iv ra> hrjpw Kai 
TTpdrrovres ottj) Svvavrat, ovtol (bv d(j>aipovvTaL . 
ricD? yap ov; Alrlav 817 ea^ov vtto tcov erepiov, 
Kav pLTi eTTiOvpicoat, veojrepLl,€iv, cog em^ovXevovai 
TO) hrjpcp /cat elaLV oXtyapxi'KOL. Tt /xiyv; Ovk- 
ovv Kal reXevTcbvTes, inetSdv opwai tov Srjpiov 



" That is the significance of irXoijaioi here, lit. " the 
rich." 

" For the classification of the population cf. Vol. I. pp. 161- 
163, Eurip. Suppl. 238 if., Aristot. Pol. 1.S28 b if., 1289 b 33, 
1290 b 40 fF., Newman i. p. 97. 

* d7rpd7/.io;'es : cf. 620 c, Aristoph. Knights 261, Aristot. 
Ehef. 1.381 a 25, Isoc. Antid. 151, 227. But Pericles in Thuc. 
ii. 40 takes a different view. See my note in Class. Phil. xv. 
(1920) pp. 300-301. 

<* aiiTovpyoi: cf. Soph. 223 d, Eurip. Or. 920, Shorey in 
Class. Phil, xxiii. (1928) pp. 346-347. 

« Cf. Aristot. PoL 1318 b 12. 

' Cf. Isoc. viii. 13 tovs ra rrjs TroXfws diave/xofj-ivov!. 

" For Toi>s ?x°vTas cf. Blaydes on Aristoph. Knights 1295. 
For the exploitation of the rich at Athens cf. Xen. Symp. 4. 
30-32, Lysias xxi. 14, xix. 62, xviii. 20-21, Isoc. Areop. 32 ff., 

^16 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

little?" "The capitalistic" class is, I take it,thename 
by which they are designated — the pasture of the 
drones." " Pretty much so," he said. 

XVI, " And the third class,* composing the 
' people,' would comprise all quiet "^ cultivators of their 
own farms ^ who possess little property. This is the 
largest and most potent group in a democracy when 
it meets in assembly." " Yes, it is," he said, " but it 
will not often do that,* unless it gets a share of the 
honey." "Well, does it not always share," I said, "to 
the extent that the men at the head find it possible, in 
distributing^ to the people what they take from the 
well-to-do,^ to keep the lion's share for themselves'' ?' 
" WTiy, yes," he said, " it shares in that sense. 
" And so, I suppose, those who are thus plundered 
are compelled to defend themselves by speeches in 
the assembly and any action in their power." " Of 
course." " And thereupon the charge is brought 
against them by the other party, though they may 
have no revolutionary designs, that they are plotting 
against the people, and it is said that they are 
oligarchs.'" "Surely." "And then finally, when 
they see the people, not of its own will '' but through 

Peace 131, Dem. De cor. 105 ff., on his triarchiclaw: and 
also Eurip. Here. Fur. 588-592, Shakes. Richard II. i. \\. 49 f. : 

Whereto, when they shall know what men are rich. 

They shall subscribe them for large sums of gold. 

Cf. Inge, More Lay Thoughts of a Dean, p. 13. 

*'C/. Aristoph. Kniqhts 717-718, 1219-1223, and Achilles 
in II. ix. 363. 

* i.e. reactionaries. Cf. supra on 562 d, p. 306, note b, 
Aeschines iii. 1 68, and 566 c fju.abor)fj.o^. The whole passage 
perhaps illustrates the " disharmony " between Plato's upper- 
class sympathies and his liberal philosophy, 

' So the Attic orators frequently say that a popular jury- 
was deceived. Cf. also Aristoph. Acharn. 515-516, 

317 



PLATO 

oux eKovra, aAA' ayvo-qaavrd re /cat i^aTraTrjdlvTa 

C VTTO Tcov Sia^aXXovTcuv, i7n)(€LpovvTa a(f)ds dSiKetv, 

TOT TJSrj, etre ^ovXovrai etre /X7y, a»? dXrjdcos 

oXiyap)(i-KOL yiyvovrai, ovx eKovreg, dXXd /cat 

TOVrO TO KaKOV iK€LVOS 6 KYj^r^V ivTlKTei KeVTiOV 

avTovs. Ko/AtSyy fjbev ovu. EicrayyeAtat Brj /cat 
KpLaeis Kai ay coves nepl dAAi^Aojt' ytyvovrai. Kat 
/LtaAa. OuKovv eva rtvd del Srjp.os etca^e 8ta- 
^epovrcxjg Trpotaraadai iavrov, Kat tovtov Tpe(f)€LV 
re Kat av^eiv fieyav; K'lcode yap. Tovto p-ev 

D apa, rjv S' eyo), hrjXov, on, orav irep ^viqrai 
rvpavvos, e/c TrpoarrarLKijs pit'')S /cat ovk dXXoQev 
eK^Xaardvei. Kat /xaAa hrJiXov. Tis dp)(r] ovv 
fieraPoXrjs e/c TTpouTarov eTTi rvpavvov; ■^ SrjXov 
on eTTeihdv ravrov dp^rjrai Spdv 6 TTpoaTaTrjs tco 
ev TO) p,vdcp, og irepl to ev 'ApKaSia ro rov Atoj 
Tov Au/catoy lepov Xeyerai; Ti?, e(f)r]. *Q.g dpa 
o yevadp.evo's tov dvBpcoTTLvov OTrXdyxyov , ev 
dXXoLS dXXcov lepeioiv evos eyKaraTerp.rip,evov , 

E avayKT] Srj tovtco XvKip yeveadai. "q ovk d/ci^/coas' 
TOV Xoyov; "Eycoye. ^Ap' ovv ovtco /cat os dv 
Srjfiov TTpoeaTcos, Xa^ojv a(j)68pa netdofjievov o^Xov, 
pi'q dTToaxT^Tai epL^vXiov at/a.aro?, dAA' dSt/ccus' 

" Aristotle, Eth. Nic. 1110 a 1, in his discussion of voluntary 
and involuntary acts, says things done under compulsion or 
through misapprehension (5t' dyvoiav) are involuntary. 

* For t6t 7)871 cf. 569 a, Phaedo 87 e, Gorg. 527 d, Laches 
181 D, 184 A, and on 550 a, p. 259, note i. 

" So Aristot. Pol. 1304 b 30 rivayKda6r](rav a-varavTes Kara- 
Xucrai rbp d-rj/xop, Isoc. XV. 318 6\i.yapx(.av 6vei8ll^ovTes . . . i}vdy- 
Kacrav ofxolovs yevicrdai. rals (Xirlais. 

** Cf. 562 D, Eurip. Or. 772 Trpoo-rdTos, Aristoph. Knights 
1128. The irpo(TT6.T7)i rod Sriij.ou was the accepted leader of 
the democracy. Cf. Dittenberger, S.I.0. 2nd ed. 1900, no. 476. 

318 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

misapprehension," and being misled by the calum- 
niators, attempting to wrong them, why then,* 
whether they wish it or not," they become in very 
deed oligarchs, not willingly, but this evil too is en- 
gendered by those drones which sting them." " Pre- 
cisely." " And then there ensue impeachments and 
judgements and lawsuits on either side." " Yes, 
indeed." " And is it not always the way of a demos 
to put forward one man as its special champion and 
protector'* and cherish and magnify him ? " " Yes, 
it is." "This, then, is plain," said I, "that when a 
tyrant arises he sprouts from a protectorate root * and 
from nothing else." "Very plain." " What, then, 
is the starting-point of the transformation of a pro- 
tector into a tyrant ? Is it not obviously when the 
protector's acts begin to reproduce the legend that 
is told of the shrine of Lycaean Zeus in Arcadia ^ ? " 
" What is that ? " he said. " The story goes that he 
who tastes of the one bit of human entrails minced 
up with those of other victims is inevitably trans- 
formed into a wolf. Have you not heard the tale ? " 
" I have." " And is it not true that in like manner 
a leader of the people who, getting control of a docile 
mob,* does not withhold his hand from the shedding of 

The implications of this passage contradict the theory that 
the oligarchy is nearer the ideal than the democracy. But 
Plato is thinking of Athens and not of his own scheme. 
Cf. supra Introd. pp. xlv-xlvi. 

• Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1310 b 14 oi jrX«<rTot rwr rvpdppur 
yey6va<TLv eV Srjfj.aycryu:v, etc., ibid. 1304 b 20 flF. 

' Cf. Frazer on Pausanias viii. 2 (vol. iv. p. 189) and Cook's 
Zevs, vol. i. p. 70. The archaic religious rhetoric of what 
follows testifies to the intensity of Plato's feeling. Cf. the 
language of the Laws on homicide, 865 ff. 

* Note the difference of tone from 502 b. Cf. Phaedr. 
260 c. 

319 



PLATO 

€TTaLTi(x)yi,evos , ola 8r) (fnXovatv, els hiKaaTrjpia 
aycov fjb(,ai(l)ov7J , ^iov dvSpos d(f)avi^ojv, yXcoTTj] re 
Kai aTOfiari dvoaico yevofxevos (f)6vov ^vyyevovg, 
566 /cat avSp-qXarfj /cat OLTTOKTivvvrj /cat VTToa-rjfiaLvr) 
XP^oJv re aTTOKOTrds /cat yrjs dvaSaa/JLOv, dpa rep 
roiovrcp dvdyKTj 8'q ro p,erd rovro /cat ei/xaprat r^ 
anoXcoXevai vtto rojv ex^pcbv t) rvpavvelv /cat Xvkco 
e^ dvdpajTTOv yeveadai; DoAAt^ dvdyKT), e(j>i). 
Ovros 877, €(f)r]v, 6 araaLdl,ojv yiyverai Trpos rovs 
exovras rds ovatas. Ovrog. ^Ap* ovv eKTreawv 
fiev /cat KareXdojv ^ia rdjv ixdpdJv rvpavvos dn- 
eipyaupbivog Karepx^rat; AfjXov. 'Eat' Se dSv- 

B uarot eK^dXXeiv avrov cLctlv rj drroKrelvai Sia^dX- 
Xovres rfj TrdAet, ^tatco 817 davdru) eTTL^ovXevovaiv 
dTTOKrivvvvai XdOpa. OtAet yovv, rj 8' 6s, ovrco 
yiyvecrdai. To 87) rvpavviKov atrrjfia ro noXvdpv- 
Xfjrov eirl rovrco Trdvres ol els rovro Trpo^e^'qKores 
e^evpiaKovGLV, alretv rov Srjfxov (f>vXaKds rivas rod 
(jcufiaros, tva acos avrots fj 6 rov S-^fxov ^oy]66s. 

C Kat jxdX , e<j)-q. At8dacri 877, ot/xat, heiaavres p.^v 
V7T€p eKelvov, Oapprjoavres 8e VTrep eavrojv. Kat 
fidXa. OvKovv rovro orav tSr) dvrjp ;)^p7^/xaTa ex(jov 

" Of. Pindar, Pyth. ii. 32 ; Lucan i. 331 : 

nuUus semel ore receptus 
pollutas patitur sanguis mansuescere fauces. 

* For a<pavi^uv cf. Gorg. 471 b. 

« The apparent contradiction of the tone here with Laws 
684 E could be regarded mistakenly as another "disharmony." 
Grote iii. p. 107 says that there is no case of such radical 
measures in Greek history. Schmidt, Ethik der Griechen, 
ii. p. 374, says that the only case was that of Cleomenes at 
Sparta in the third century. See Georges Mathieu, Les Idees 

^20 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

tribal blood," but by the customary unjust accusations 
brings a citizen into court and assassinates him, 
blotting out ^ a human life, and with unhallowed tongue 
and hps that have tasted kindred blood, banishes and 
slays and hints at the abohtion of debts and the 
partition of lands " — is it not the ine\itable consequence 
and a decree of fate** that such a one be either slain 
by his enemies or become a tyrant and be transformed 
from a man into a wolf ? " " It is quite ine\"itable," 
he said. " He it is," I said, " who becomes the leader 
of faction against the possessors of property.* " "Yes, 
he." " May it not happen that he is driven into 
exile and, being restored in defiance of his enemies, 
returns a finished tyrant ? " " Ob\'iously." " And 
if they are unable to expel him or bring about his 
death by calumniating him to the people, they plot 
to assassinate him by stealth." " That is certainly 
wont to happen," said he. " And thereupon those who 
have reached this stage devise that famous petition ^ 
of the tyrant — to ask from the people a bodyguard 
to make their city safe^ for the friend of democracy." 
"They do indeed," he said. "And the people 
grant it, I suppose, fearing for him but unconcerned 
for themselves." " Yes, indeed." " And when he 
sees this, the man who has wealth and with his wealth 

politiques d^Isocrate, p. 150, who refers to Andoc. De myst. 
88, Plato, Laves 684, Demosth. Against Timocr. 149 (heliastic 
oath), Michel, Recueil d' inscriptions grecques, 1317, the oath 
at Itanos. 

'' Cf. 619 c. • Cf. 565 A. 

f Cf. Herod, i. 59, Aristot. Rhet. 1357 b 30 £F. Aristotle, 
Pol. 1305 a 7-15, says that this sort of thing used to happen 
but does not now, and explains whv. For iro\i/^pi;\77Tov cf. 
Phafdo 100 B. 

» For the ethical dative aiVoiy cf. on 343 a. Vol. I. p. 65, 
note c. 

VOL. II y 2lSt\ 



PLATO 

KaL [xera rcov XPVH''^'^^^ alriav fiiaoSrjfxos elvai. 
Tore Srj ovros, J) iralpe, Kara rov Kpotacp 
yevofievov XPV^H'^^ 

TToXvijirj^iha Trap' "Kp/xov 
<f)€vy€i, ovSe fxevei, oyS' atSeirat /ca/co? elvai. 

Ov yap av, e(f)r], Sevrepov avOig alSeadelr]. '0 Se 

ye, olfxaL, -^v S' eyo), KaraX7](f)9els davdrcp StSorat. 

AvdyKrj. '0 Se 817 TrpoaTar-qs eKeivos avTog 

SrjXov S-q OTL pueyag fieyaXcoarc, ov KeZrai, dXXd 

D Kara^aXcbv aXXovs ttoXXovs ear-qKev iv raj hicjjpcx) 
rrjs TToXeojs, rvpawos dvrl rrpoardrov aTToreTe- 
XeaiJLevos. Tt 8' ov /xe'AAec; ecf)r). 

XVII. ALeXdwjxev Srj ttjv evSaifMOVLav, rjv 8' 
cyoj, Tov re avSpos Kal rrjs TToXecos, ev fj dv 6 
TOLOVTOS PpoTos iyyevTjTaL ; Udvv fxev ovv, €cf)rj, 
OLeXdojfiev. 'Ap' ovv, ecTTOv, ov rats fxev Trpcoracs 
r]fxepais re Kal xpovco TrpoayeXa re Kal daTrdt^erai 
TTavras, cb dv Trepirvyxdvr), Kal ovre rvpawos 

E (jiTjaiv elvat, vmaxvelrai re TToXXd Kal ISia Kal 817- 
fjLoaia, XP^^^ Tf rjXevdepcoae, Kal yijv Sieveifie 
hrjixcp re Kal rots Tvepl eavrov, Kal Trdaiv tXecos re 
Kai rrpdos elvat TTpoanoielrai ; 'AvdyKrj, €(/)7). 
"Orav 8e ye, olfxaL, rrpos rovs e^co ex^povs rols 
fiev KaraXXayfj, rovs 8e Kal SLa(f)detpr], Kal rjovx^a 
CKeiviov yevrjrai, Trpd)rov fiev TToXefxovs rivds del 
KtveX, tv iv xpeta 'qyepiovos 6 St^/xo? i?. EtVoj 

" For iuLicr687]fios cf. Aristoph. Wasps 474, Xen. Hell. ii. 
3. 47, Andoc. iv. 16, and by contrast <{>iK6bi)iJ.ov, Aristoph. 
Knights 787, Clouds 1187. » Herod, i. 55. 

" In //. xvi. 776 Cebriones, Hector's charioteer, slain by 
Patrochis, ksZto ixtya.'s fieyaXcaarl, " mighty in his mightiness." 
(A. T. Murray, Loeb tr.) 

$22 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

the repute of hostility to democracy," then in the 
words of the oracle * delivered to Croesus, 

By the pebble-strewn strand of the Hermos 

Swift is his flight, he stays not nor blushes to show the 
white feather." 
" No, for he would never get a second chance to 
blush." " And he who is caught, methinks, is de- 
livered to his death." " Inevitably." " And then 
obviously that protector does not lie prostrate, 
'mighty with far-flung limbs,' in Homeric overthrow,*' 
but overthrowing many others towers in the car of 
state ** transformed from a protector into a perfect and 
finished tyrant." " Wliat else is Ukely ? " he said. 

XV'II. "Shall we, then, portray the happiness," said 
I, " of the man and the state in which such a creature 
arises ? " " By all means let us describe it," he said, 
" Then at the start and in the first days does he not 
smile* upon all men and greet everj-body he meets and 
deny that he is a tyrant, and promise many things in 
private and public, and having freed men from debts, 
and distributed lands to the people and his own associ- 
ates, he affects a gracious and gentle manner to all ? " 
" Necessarily," he said. " But when, I suppose, he 
has come to terms ^vith some of his exiled enemies * 
and has got others destroyed and is no longer dis- 
turbed by them, in the first place he is always stirring 
up some war 3 so that the people may be in need of 

•* For the figure c/. Polit. 266 e. More common in Plato 
is the figure of the ship in this connexion. Cf. on 488. 

• Cf. Eurip. J.A. 333 fi".. Shakes. Henry IV. Part I. i. ilL 
246 " This king of smiles, this Bolingbroke." 

' Not " foreign enemies " as almost all render it. Cf. my 
note on this passage in Class. Rev. xix. (1905) pp. 438-439, 
573 B l^w liffet, Theognis 56, Thuc. iv, 66 and viii, 64, 

' Cf. Polit. 308 A, and in modern times the case of 
Napoleon. 

SS3 



PLATO 

567 ye. Ovkovv /cai iva y^pr^yiaTa ela<f>4povTCs nevrjTes 
■yiyvofievoL npos rw Kad" rjpLepav dvayKa^cuvTai 
elvai /cat -^ttov avro) im^ovXevojaLV ; ArjXov. 
Kai dv ye riva?, otpLai, VTroTrrevr] iXevdepa cftpov^- 
fxara exovTas firj eTTiTpeipeiv avrcu apx^iv, ottojs 
av TOVTOvs fjuera Trpocfxicreios arroXXurj, evSovs rols 
TToAe/xiots'; TovrcDV TrdvTCov eVe/ca rvpdvva) del 
dvdyKrj TToXe/Jiov rapdrrcLV ; ^AvdyK-q. Taura St) 

B TTOLOVvra eroipLOv fidXXov drrexOdveadai tols ttoXl- 
TaLs; Yicbs ydp ov; Ovkovu Kai rivas tcov 
^vyKaraaTTjadvTiov /cat ev Svvdfxet ovtcdv Trap- 
pr]aid^€a6aL /cat Trpos avrov /cat TTpos dXXT]Xovs, 
eTTiTrX'^TTOVTas toIs yiyvofievois, ot dv rvyxdvco- 
Giv avhpiKcoraroL ovreg; Et/co? ye. 'TTre^atpetv' 
§17 TOVTOVS TrdvTas Set tov Tvpavvov, et /xe'AAet 
dp^eiv, ecu? dv pLr^Te (j>iXa>v firJT^ exOpuiv XtTrr) 
fji-qSeva, otov tl 6(f)eXos. AfjXov. 'O^e'co? dpa Set 

C opdv avTOVy Tis dvdpeios. Tig p.eyaX6<f)po}v , tls 
^povLfxos, TLS ttXovcjlos' koL ovtcds euSat/xcov ioTLV, 
<x)aT€ TOVTOLS drraaiv dvdyKXj avTco, etre ^ouAerat 
etre /X7y, TroXefiLip elvai /cat im^ovXeveLV, icos dv 
KaOripri ttjv ttoXiv. KaAot" ye, e^^y, Kadapfiov. 
Nat, -qv S' iyo), tov ivavTiov •}) ot larpol Ta acofxaTa- 

° For Ta.p6.TTav in this sense cf. Dem. De cor. 151 eyKX'/i/xara 
Kai TToXe/xos . . . iTapaxd-q, Soph. Antig, 795 vukos . . . Tapd^as. 

* ^vyKaTa<TTrj(TdvTCx)v is used in Aesch. Prom. 307 of those 
who helped Zeus to establish his supremacy among the gods. 
See also Xen. Ages. 2. 31, Isoc. Panegyr. 126. 

" Cf. Thucyd. viii. 70, Herod, iii. 80. 5??, as often in the 
Timaeus, marks the logical progression of the thought. Cf. 
Tim. 67 c, 69 a, 77 c, 82 b, and passim. 

** Cf. on 560 D, p. 299, note c. Aristotle says that in a 
democracy ostracism corresponds to this. Cf. Newman i. 

324 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

a leader." " That is likely." " And also that being 
impoverished by war-taxes they may have to devote 
themselves to their daily business and be less likely 
to plot against him ? " " Obviously." " And if, I 
presume, he suspects that there are free spirits who 
A\ill not suffer his domination, his further object is 
to find pretexts for destroying them by exposing 
them to the enemy ? From all these motives a tyrant 
is compelled to be always provoking wars " ? " " Yes, 
he is compelled to do so." " And by such conduct 
will he not the more readily incur the hostility of the 
citizens ? " " Of course." " And is it not likely that 
some of those who helped to establish * and now share 
in his power, voicing their disapproval of the course 
of events, will speak out frankly to him and to one 
another — such of them as happen to be the bravest ? " 
"Yes, it is likely." "Then the tyrant must do away" 
with all such if he is to maintain his rule, until he has 
left no one of any worth, friend or foe." " Obvi- 
ously." " He must look sharp to see, then, who is 
brave, who is great-souled, who is wise, who is rich ; 
and such is his good fortune that, whether he wishes 
it or not, he must be their enemy and plot against 
them all until he purge the city.**" "A fine purga- 
tion," he said. " Yes," said I, "just the opposite of 
that which physicians practise on our bodies. For 

p. 262. For the idea that the tyrant fears good or able and 
outstanding men <•/. Laws 832 c, Gorg. 510 b-c, Xen. Hiero 
5. 1, Isoc. viii. 112, Eurip. Ian 626-6-2S, Milton, Tenure of 
Kings, etc., init.. Shakes., Richard II. iii. iv. 33 ff. : 

Go thou, and like an executioner 
Cut oif the heads of too fast growing sprays 
That look too lofty in our commonwealth. 
All must be even in our government. 

But cf. Pindar, Pyth. iii. 71, of Hiero, ov tpdoftwy dyadois. 

825 



PLATO 

ol jLtev yap ro x^tpiarov dcfyaipovvres AeiTTOvai to 
^eXTiarov , 6 he rovvavriov. 'Q.s €olk€ yap, avrip, 

€(/)7], dvdyKT], €l7T€p dp^€l. 

XVIII. ^Ev piaKapia dpa, elvov iyco, dvdyKT] 
D SeSerai, rj TTpoardTrei avTco •^ fxerd (f>avXa)v rwv 
7ToXXa)v oIk€iv /cat vtto tovtcov pbiaovpievov rj p,r] 
^rjv. 'El' TOtavrr), rj S' 6s. ^Ap' ovv ovxL oaco 
dv p,aXXov rols TroXirais direxOdvrjTaL ravra Bpa>v, 
ToaovTCp TrXcLovajv /cat Tncrrorepcov Sopvcpopojv 
Seijaerat; Uws yap ov; TtVe? ovv ol Trtarot, /cat 
TTodev avTovs fteraTre'iUi/reTat ; Ayro/xaroi, ^9V> 
TToXXot '^^ovGL TTeTopuevoi, idv TOP fiioOov Stocp. 
Virj(f)r]vas, rjv 8' iyco, vr) tov Kvva, So/cet? av nvas 
E jU-ot Xeyeiv ^eviKovs re /cat TravroSaTTOVs • ^AXrjurj 
yap, e(f)r), Sokoj aoi. Tt he; avTodev^ dp ovK av 
edeXr^aeiev ; Ilcbs; Tovs hovXovg dcfyeXojxevos rovs 
TToXiras, eXevOepcLaas, rcov irepl eavrov hopvcfiopcov 
TTOL-qaaadat,. Hcfiohpa y\ ecjyr]- eTvei rot /cat ttloto- 
raroi avrcp oStol eiaiv. ^H fxaKapiov, "^v 8' eyu), 
Xeyeis rvpdvvov XPVH-^' ^^ tolovtols (fiiXoLs re /cat 
568 TTtaTOLS dvhpdai XPW^''> '^ou? Trporepovs eKetvovs 
dnoXeaas. 'AAAo. pit^v, e(f)r], tocovtois ye ;;^p7jTai. 
Kat davpidl^ovaL h'q, etvror, ovroi ot eralpoi avrov 
/cat ^vveiaiv ol vioi TroAiTat, ot 8' e7riei/cet? pnaovcn 

1 Tt 5^; avTbOev Hermann, Adam : tU S^ airrbdev ; AFDM : 
ri di avThdev Mon. (without punctuation) : tovs 5^ ainbdev 
Stephanus. 

<» Cf. Laws 952 e, Rep. 467 d. 

'' Cf. the Scottish guards of Louis XI. of France, the Swiss 
guards of the later French kings, the Hessians hired by 
George HI. against the American colonies, and the Asiatics 
in the Soviet armies. 
326 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

while tliey remove the worst and leave the best, he 
does the reverse." " Yes, for apparently he must," 
he said, " if he is to keep his power." 

XVIII. " Blessed, then, is the necessity that binds 
him," said I, " which bids him dwell for the most part 
with base companions who hate him, or else forfeit his 
life." " Such it is," he said. " And would he not, 
the more he offends the citizens by such conduct, have 
the greater need of more and more trustworthy body- 
guards ? " " Of course." " Whom, then, may he 
trust, and whence shall he fetch them ? " " Un- 
bidden," he said, " thev v.ill wing their wav" to him 
in great numbers if he furnish their wage." " Drones, 
by the dog," I said, " I think you are talking of again, 
an ahen ** and motley crew.<= " " You think rightly," 
he said. " But what of the home supply,"* would he 
not choose to employ that ? " "How?" " By taking 
their slaves from the citizens, emancipating them and 
enhsting them in his bodyguard." " Assuredly," he 
said, "since these are those whom he can most trust." 
" Truly," said I, " this tyrant business « is a blessed' 
thing on your showing, if such are the friends and 
' trusties ' he must employ after destroying his former 
associates." " But such are indeed those he does 
make use of," he said. " And these companions 
admire him," I said, " and these new citizens are his 
associates, while the better sort hate and avoid him." 

' TavToSairoyy : cf. on 557 c. 

* For airrbOev cf. Herod, i. 6-t tCov ftiv avrodev, tGiv 8i dTo 
"ZTpirfwiros, Thuc. i. 11, Xen. Afjes. 1. 28. 

• For the idiomatic and colloquial XPVM^ <"/• Herod, i. 36, 
Eurip. Androm. 181, Theaet. 209 e, Aristoph. Clouds 1, 
Birds 826, Wasps 933, Lysistr. 83, 1085, Acharn. 150, Peace 
1192. Knights 1219, Frogs 1278. 

'' For tiie vrretched lot of the tyrant cf. p. 368, note a. 

327 



PLATO 

re Kal <j)evyovaLV ; Tt S' ov fxeXXovacv ; Ovk iros, 
rjv S' iyo), t] re rpaycohia oXcos ao^ov hoKeZ elvaL 
/cat o ^vpLTTiSrjs hia(j>ep<j)v ev avrfj. Tt 817; "Ort 
/cat rovro rrvKvrjs Stavoia? e^oyievov e<f)dey^aro, 

B oiS oipa ao(f)OL rvpavvoL elai rcov aocf)a)v avvovaia. 
/cat eXeye hrjXov on rovrovs elvai rovs ao<j)Ovs of? 
^vveariv. Kat oi? loodeov y , e(f>y], rrjv rvpavviBa 
eyKiOjJud^eL, /cat erepa ttoXXol, /cat ovros Kal ol 
d'AAot TTOtTyrat. Totyaprot, e(f)r)v, are aocf)ol ovres 
ol rijg rpaycphias iroi-qral ^vyytyvcooKovaiv tjijlXv 
re /cat e/cetVotj, oaoi rjixcov eyyvs TroXirevovrai, 
ort, avrovs els rrjv TroXireiav ov Trapahe^ofxeda are 
rvpawiSos VfMvrjrds. OtjLtat eyoiy' , et^r], ^vyyiyvoj- 

C cjKovaLv oaoLTTep ye aurcbv KOfxijjoi. Et? 8e ye, 
ot/xat, rds dXXas Trepuovres rroXetg, ^vXXeyovreg 
roijg oxXovg, KaXds (f>a>vds /cat fxeydXas Kal mdavds 
pnadcoadfievoL els rvpavvlhas re Kal SrjfMOKparias 
eXKovai rds TToXiretas. MaAa ye. Ovkovv Kal 
rrpoaeri rovrcov fjLiadovs Xafx^dvovat Kal rip-covrai, 
{xdXiara fiev, axTTrep ro et/co?, vtto rvpaMva)v, 
Sevrepov Se vtto hrjpbOKparias' oacp 8 dv aviorepo) 
'iioai npos ro dvavres rcov TToXireioJv, jxdXXov 

D aTTayopevei avrdjv rj rifjurj, oiairep vtto aaOfxaros 
dSvvarovaa TTOpeveadai. Yldvv /jcev ovv. 

" For OVK 4t6s cf. 414 e. The idiom is frequent in Aristoph. 
Cf. e.g. Acharn. 411, 413, Birds 915, Thesm. 921, Plut. 404, 
1166, i?cc«. 245. 

* This is plainly ironical and cannot be used by the 
admirers of Euripides. 

* Cf. irvKival (ppives Iliad xiv. 294, TrvKivbs v6os xv. 41, etc. 

"* Cf. Theages 125 b f. The line is also attributed to 
Sophocles. Cf. Stemplinger, Das Plagiat in der griechi- 
schen Literatur, p. 9; Gellius xiii. 18, F. Dummler, Jka- 
demika, p. 16. Wilamowitz, Platon, i. p. 119 thinks this an 

328 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

" Why should they not ? " " Not for nothing,<» " said 
I, " is tragedy in general esteemed wise, and Euripides 
beyond other tragedians. *' " " Why, pray ? " " Be- 
cause among other utterances of pregnant thought * 
he said, ' T}Tants are wise by converse 'v\ith the ^\'ise.'' ' 
He meant evidently that these associates of the 
tyrant are the \vise." " Yes, he and the other poets," 
he said, "call the tyrant's power 'likest God's'* and 
praise it in many other ways." " Wherefore," said 
I, " being wise as they are, the poets of tragedy will 
pardon us and those whose poUtics resemble ours 
for not admitting them' into our polity, since they 
hymn the praises of tj-ranny." " I think," he said, 
" that the subtle minds^ among them will pardon us." 
" But going about to other cities, I fancy, collecting 
crowds and hiring fine, loud, persuasive voices,'' they 
draw the polities towards tyrannies or democracies." 
" Yes, indeed." " And, further, they are paid and 
honoured for this, chiefly, as is to be expected, by 
tyrants, and secondly by democracy.*' But the higher 
they go, breasting constitution hill, the more their 
honour fails, as it were from lack of breath^ unable to 
proceed." " Quite so." 

allusion to Euripides and Agathon at the court of Archelaus 
of Macedon. 

Isocrates ix. 40, like the poets, praises the tyrants, but ii. 
3-5 contrasts their education unfavourably with that of the 
ordinary citizen. Throughout the passage he is plainly 
thinking of Plato. 

• Cf. Vol. I. p. 119, note c, Eurip. Tro. 1169, Isoc. ii. 5. 
^ Cf. supra 394 d, }rhat Plato Sa!d, p. 561, infra 598 ff. 
» KOfji^poi is used plaj-fully or ironically. 

* Cf. Gorg. 502 b ff., Laws 817 c, and for the expression 
Prota<f. 347 d. 

< Cf. Laches 183 a-b. 

' Cf. Shakes. Ant. and Cleop. in. x. 25 "Our fortune on 
the sea is out of breath." 

929 



PLATO 

XIX. 'AAAd S-q, eiTTOV, ivravda jxev €^e^r)fX€V 
Xeycojjiev Se TrdXiv eKeivo to rov Tvpdvvov arparo- 
neSov TO KaXov re /cat ttoXv /cat ttolklXov /cat 
ovScTTore ravrov, TTodev dpeiperaL. ArjXov, €(f)r], 
OTL, edv re tepo. ;!^p7^ju,aTa fj iv rfj TToAei, ravra 
dvaXcoacL ottol TTore av del i^apKrj, /cat rd ruiv dir- 
oXofxevcov ,^ eXdrrovg ela^opds dvayKdt,cov tov Srjjjiov 

E etCT^epetv. Tt S' drav S17 ravra emXetTTT]; ArjXov, 
etpiq, on e/c rtov Trarpcpojv dpeiperai avros Te /cat 
ot crufjiTTorai re /cat eralpoi /cat iraipai. MavOdvco, 
rjv o iyco' on 6 Srjfxos 6 yevviqaas rov rvpavvov 
dpeifjet avrov re /cat eraipovs. noAAT7 avrip, e(f)r], 
avayKTj. Ilws Se Xeyets; elTTOV edv Be dyavai<rfj 
re /cat Xeyrj 6 8rjp,os, on ovre St/catov rpe(j>eadaL 
VTTO rrarpos vidv rj^covra, aAAct rovvavriov vtto 
569 vieos irarepa, ovre rovrov avrov eveKa eyevvrjoe 
re /cat Karecrrrjoev, tva, erreiBrj p,eyas yevoiro, 
rore avros SovXevcov rocs avrov SovXoig rpe<j)Oi 
eKetvov re /cat rovs SovXovs fierd ^vyKXvdcov 
aAAcov, aAA' iva aTTo rcov TrXovaiojv re /cat KaXcov 
Kayadojv Xeyofxevcov ev rfj rroXet eXevOepcodeir] 
eKetvov TTpoardvros, /cat vvv KeXevei aTTteVat e/c 
rrjs TToXecos avrov re /cat rovg eraipovs, coaTrep 
TTarrjp viov e^ ot/cia? juera o)(Xr]pa)v ^vpLTTorwv 
e^eXavvoiv; Vvcoaerai ye, vrj Ala, rj S' os, ror 

B t^St^ o hrjpuos, OLOs otov dpefjifxa yevvcbv -^cnTdi^ero 

^ Kal TO. Baiter, to, mss.; aTroXo/xivwv A^, dirodofj.^piov AFDM, 
iruXov/xevuv ci. Campbell. See Adam, App. VI. 

« Cf. on 572 B, p. 339, note e. 
" Cf. 574 D, Dielsi p. 578, Anon. Iambi. 3. 
* Cf. Soph. O.T, 873 v^pis (pvre^ei rirpavvov. 

330 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

XIX. " But this," said I, " is a digression.^ Let us 
return to that fair, multitudinous, diversified and 
ever-changing bodyguard of the tyrant and tell how 
it will be supported." " Obvdously," he said, " if 
there are sacred treasures in the city he will spend 
these as lo^ as they last and the property of those 
he has destroyed, thus requiring smaller contribu- 
tions from the populace." " But what when these 
resources fail * ? " " Clearly," he said, " his father's 
estate will have to support him and his wassailers, his 
fellows and his she-fellows." " I understand," I said, 
" that the people which begot the tyrant "^ ■will have 
to feed him and his companions." " It cannot escape 
from that," he said. " And what have you to say," 
I said, " in case the people protests and says that it 
is not right that a grown-up son should be supported 
by his father, but the reverse, and that it did not beget 
and establish him in order that, when he had gro-wn 
great, it, in servitude to its own slaves, should feed 
him and the slaves together with a nondescript rabble 
of aUens, but in order that, with him for protector, 
it might be bberated from the rule of the rich and 
the so-called ' better classes,'*^ and that it now bids him 
and his crew depart from the city as a father expels * 
from his house a son together with troublesome 
revellers?" " The demos,by Zeus," he said," will then 
learn to its cost ^ what it is and what ^ a creature it 

■* For KaXQv KayadQiv ef. Aristoph. Knights 185, and Blaydes 
on 735. See also supra on 489 e, p. 37, note d. 

' Cf. Blaydes on Aristoph. Clouds 123. 

^ For the threatening yvwffeTai cf. 362 a, 466 c, II. xviii. 
270 and 125, Theocr. xxvi. 19 rdxa yvJxTTi, and Lucian, 
Timon 33 et(reTai. 

" For the juxtaposition oTos olov cf. Symp. 195 a, Sophocles 
El. 751, Ajax 557, 923, Track. 995, 1045. 

331 



PLATO 

T€ /cat rjv^e, Kal on aadevecrrepos cov laxvpore- 
povs i^eXavvei. Ylws, rjv 8' eyco, Aeyei?; toA/xtj- 
cret Tov Trarepa ^Ldt,eadaL, Koiv jxr] Treid-qrai, tvtt- 
T€LV 6 Tvpavvos; Nat, ^<f>^) dt^eXofievog ye ra 
OTrXa. liarpaXoLav, rjv 8 eyco, Aeyet? rvpavvov 
Kal ;(;aAe7T6v yrjpoTpofjiov, /cat oi? eoi/ce tovto 817 
6fxoXoyovn€vr] dv rjSr] rupavvls cltj, Kal to Aeyo- 
fievov 6 Srjjjios (f>evya)V dv Kanvov SovXeias iXevde- 
C pctiv els TTvp SovXcov SeCTTTOTeta? ai' e/ATreTrrcu/cots' 
6117, ai'Tt TTy? 7TO?<Xrjs iK€LVT]s Kal aKaipov iXevde- 
pCas TTjv ;\;aAe7r6L>TaT77t' re /cat TnKpordrrjv SovXiov 
SovXeiav jLteTa/XTTtCTp^Ojaero?. Kat fxdXa, ecjif], rauTtt 
ovTco ycyverat. Tt ow; €lttov ovk efxpieXibs 
r)fjiLV elpriaerai, edv cfxjjfxev LKavcbs SLeXrjXvdevat, 
COS fJ-era^aLveL rvpavvls e/c SrjfxoKpaTLag, yevopLevrj 
re Ota earlv ; Yidvv fxev ovv iKavcbs, e^^- 



" Cf. infra on 574 c, pp. 346-347, note e. 

* As we say, " Out of the frying-pan into the fire." Cf. 
Anth. Pal. ix. 17. 5 eK irvpbs ws afj'os 'Tretrfs ii (f>\6ya, Theo- 
doret, Therap. iii. p. 773 Kal rbv Kairvbv Kara ttjv xapoifilav, tos 
?ot/ce, ^&yovT€s, els aiirb 8r] rb irvp ijjLireTcrwKaixev. See Otto, 
p. 137; also Solon 7 (17) {Anth. Lyr., Bergk-Hiller, 9 in 
Edmonds, Greek Elegy and Iambus, i. p. 122, Loeb Classical 



S32 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK VIII 

begot and cherished and bred to greatness, and that in 
its weakness it tries to expel the stronger." " WTiat 
do you mean ? " said I ; " vriW the tyrant dare to use 
force against his father, and, if he does not yield, to 
strike him " ? " " Yes," he said, " after he has once 
taken from him his arms." " A very parricide," said I, 
" you make the tyrant out to be, and a cruel nurse 
of old age, and, as it seems, this is at last tyranny open 
and avowed, and, as the saying goes, the demos trying 
to escape the smoke of submission to the free would 
have plunged into the fire* of enslavement to slaves, 
and in exchange for that excessive and unseasonable 
liberty* has clothed itself in the garb of the most cruel 
and bitter ser\ile servitude.** " " Yes indeed," he said, 
" that is just what happens." " Well, then," said I, 
" shall we not be fairly justified in saying that we 
have sufficiently described the transformation of a 
democracy into a tyranny and the nature of the 
tyranny itself ? " " Quite sufficiently," he said. 

Library) els Si fxoifdpxov Srjuos diSpelr} dovXoativTjv iireafv, 
Herod, ill. 81 rvpavvov vjipiv ^ei^yovraj dydpas ej Sti/jlov 
aKoXdcTTov v^piv TTfadv, and for the idea Epist. viii. 354 d. 

' Cf. Epist. viii. 354 d. 

■* For the rhetorical style ef. Tim. 41 a 6eol dfwp, Polit. 
303 c ffo<piffTQv (ToipKTrd^, and the biblical expressions, God 
of Gods and Lord of Lords, e.q. Dent. x. 17, Ps. cxxxvi. 2-3, 
Dan. xi. 36, Rev. xLx. 16. Cf. Jebb on Soph. O.T. 1063 
rpiSovKos. 



333 





571 I. Auto? S'»7 Xolttos, rjv 8' eyco, 6 rvpavviKog 
dvrjp aKeipaaOai, ttojs re ixediararai Ik hrjixoKpa- 
TLKov, yevofievos re ttoXos tls icTTi Kat riva rpoTTOV 
t,fj, ddXiov Yj jxaKaptov. Aolttos yap ovv en ouros", 
€(f)rj. Otcrd^ ovv, rjv 8' iyo), o ttoBo) en; To 
TToZov; To Tix)v eTTLdvpnaJVy oXai re Kai oaai eicnv, 
ov fxoi SoKovfjuev iKavcos Strjprjadai. rovrov Brj 
B ei^Seo*? e^ovros, daa(l)earepa earai rj ^T^rrjcri-g ov 
t,r)roviJiev . Ovkovv, t^ 8' os, eV iv KaXa>^ ; Ilaj^u 
piev ovv KoX GKOTTei y o iv avrats ^ovXofiai ISelv. 
ear I 8e rdSe. rcbv pirj dvayKaicov rjSovcvv re /cai 
imdvp^iaJv hoKovai rives pioi eivat, Trapavop^oi, at 
Kiv^vvevovai fiev eyyiyveadai rravri, KoXat,op,evai 
Se VTTO re ra>v vopLOJV /cat ra)v ^eXriovcov eTndvpacov 
p,€rd Xoyov iviojv [xev dvOpcoTTCov iq TravraTracriv 
dTToXXdrreadai •^ oAt'yai Xeirreadai /cat ao-^et'ets', 
C rcbv he la)(yp6repai /cat rrXeiovs. Aeyeis 8e /cat 
TtVas", €^^j ravrag; Tds nepl rov vttvov, '^v S' 

^ ev Ka\(^ M and almost all editions : iyKaXd AFD, defended 
by Apelt, Berl. Phil. Woch. 1895, p. 965. 

» For if Ka\<f cf. Soph. El. 348, Eurip. Heracleid. 971, 
Aristoph. Eccl. 321, Thesm. 292. 
" Cf. on 558 D. 

" For Ko\a^6fi€vai cf. on 559 b, p. 293, note c. 
" Cf. Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1102 b 5 ff. 6 5' ayadb^ Kal /ca/c6s 

SS4 



BOOK IX 

I, " There remains for consideration," said I, " the 
tyrannical man himself — the manner of his develop- 
ment out of the democratic t}^e and his character and 
the quahty of his life, whether wTctched or happy." 
" ^\^ly, yes, he still remains," he said. " Do you 
know, then, what it is that I still miss ? " " \\Tiat ? " 
" In the matter of our desires I do not think we suffi- 
ciently distinguished their nature and number. And 
so long as this is lacking our inquiry ^\ill lack clear- 
ness." " Well," said he, " will our consideration of 
them not still be opportune"?" "By all means. And 
observe what it is about them that I ^^•ish to consider. 
It is this. Of our unnecessary pleasures * and appetites 
there are some lawless ones, I think, which probably 
are to be found in us all, but which, when controlled" 
by the laws and the better desires in alliance with 
reason, can in some men be altogether got rid of, 
or so nearly so that only a few weak ones remain, 
while in otners the remnant is stronger and more 
numerous." "What desires do you mean? " he said. 
"Those," said I, "that are awakened in sleep"* when 

IJKKTTa 8idSr]\oi Kad' (nrvov, etc. ; also his Problem. 957 a 21 fF. 
Cic. De divin. i. 29 translates this passage. Cf. further 
Herod, vi. 107, Soph. O.T. 981-982. 

Hazlitt writes " We are not hypocrites in our sleep," 
a modern novelist, " In sleep all barriers are do^vn." 

The Freudians have at last discovered Plato's anticipation 

335 



PLATO 

eyoj, eyeipoixevas , orav to fxev aAAo tt^s" ^P^XV^ 
€v8r), oaov XoyiarLKov Kal rjfxepov /cat ap^pv 
€K€LVov, TO 8e d-qpLcoSes re Kal aypiov, rf aLTCov t] 
/jiiOrjs TrXrjcrddv, aKipra re koI aTTcuadfievov tov 
VTTVov 'Cprjrfi levai koX dTTOTnfnrXdvaL rd avrov rjOrj' 
ola9' on ndvra iv rep roiovrcp roXfia TTOieZv, dig 
dno Trdarjs XeXvjjLevov re Kal aTrriXXaypiivov alaxv- 
vr)s fcat (jipovrjaeojs . [X'qrpL re yap iTTLxeipelv 

J) fiLyvvadat, d)S olerai, ovhev OKvel, aAAoj re orcoovv 
avdpu)7TOJV /cat dediv Kal 6rjpio)v, p.iai(j}OveZv re 
oriovv, ^pdipiaros re aTTex^adac fxrjSevos' Kal evl 
Xoycp ovre dvoias ovSev eAAetVet ovr* dvaiaxvvrias . 
AXfjdearara, e^t], Xeyeig. "Orav he ye, olpiai, 
vyteivdjs Tt? exj} avrdg avrov /cat aoj(f)p6vco£, Kal 
€19 rdv VTTVOV LT) ro XoytarLKOv p,ev eyeipas eavrov 
Kal earidaas Xoycov KaXd)v Kal OKetpecov, els 
avwoLav avrog avrtp d<f>iK6pievos , ro eTndvpb-qrLKov 

E Se pLir^re ivSeia Sovs fii^re TrXr^ajjioinj , ottcds dv 



of their main thesis. Cf. Trotter, Instincts of the Herd in 
Peace and War, p. 74: "It has been perhaps Freud's most 
remarkable thesis that dreams are manifestations of this 
emergence of desires and memories from the unconscious 
into the conscious field." " The barriers of the Freudian 
unconscious are less tightly closed during sleep " senten- 
tiously observes an eminent modern psychologist. Cf. 
Valentine, The Neic Psychology of the Unconscious, p. xiii. 
and ibid. p. 93: "Freud refers to Plato's view that the 
virtuous man contents himself with dreaming that which the 
wicked man does in actual life, but I believe he nowhere shows 
a knowledge of the following passage in the Republic. ..." 
Cf. ibid. p. 95 : " The germ of several aspects of the Freudian 
view of dreams, including the characteristic doctrine of the 
censor, was to be found in Plato. The Freudian view 
becomes at once distinctly more respectable." 

886 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

the rest of the soul, the rational, gentle and dominant 
part, slumbers, but the beastly and savage part, re- 
plete >\-ith food and wine, gambols and, repelling 
sleep, endeavours to sally forth and satisfy its own 
instincts." You are aware that in such case there is 
nothing it will not venture to undertake as being 
released from all sense of shame and all reason. It 
does not shrink from attempting to lie with a mother 
in fancy or with anyone else, man, god or brute. It 
is ready for any foul deed of blood ; it abstains from no 
food, and, in a word, falls short of no extreme of folly '' 
and shamelessness." " Most true," he said. " But 
when, I suppose, a man's condition is healthy and 
sober, and he goes to sleep after arousing his rational 
part and entertaining it with fair words and thoughts, 
and attaining to clear self-consciousness, while he has 
neither starved nor indulged to repletion his appeti- 

Many of the ancients, like some superstitious moderns, ex- 
alted the unconscious which reveals itself in dreams, and 
made it the source of prophecj'. Cf. commentators on 
Aesch. Eumen. 104, Pindar, fr. 131 (96) Loeb, p. 589 : 
eOSet 5^ irpaacrovTitiv fieXfiav, drap eiiSovTfaaiv iv TroWotj oveipoii 

dflKvvfft. ripicvuv icpipiroicTav x"*^^*""^" '''^ Kpiaiv, " but it 
sleepeth while the limbs are active ; yet to them that sleep, 
in many a dream it giveth presage of a decision of things 
delightful or doleful." * (Sandys, Loeb tr.) Cf. Pausan. 
ix. 23, Cic. De div. i. 30, Sir Thomas Browne, Religio 
Medici, pp. 105-107 (ed. J. A. Symonds). Plato did not 
share these superstitions. Cf. the irony of Tim. 71 d-e, 
and my review of Stewart's " Myths of Plato," Journal 
of Philos. Psychol, and Scientific Methods, vol. iii., 1906, 
pp. 495-498. 

' The Greeks had no good word for instinct, but there are 
passages in Plato where this translation is justified by the 
context for ^^os, ^wts and such words. 

"■ For the idiom ovUv eWdirei cf. Soph. Track. 90, Demosth. 
liv. 34. Cf. also 602 d and on 533 a, p. 200, note 6. 

VOL. II Z 887 



PLATO 

572 KOL^TjOfj Koi fjLrj TTapexj) dopv^ov rat ^eXTLara) i 

Xclpov rj XvTTOvfxevov , aAA' ea avTO Kad* avro j 

piovov Kadapov gkottcZv koI opeyeadai rov Kal i 

ata6dvea6at o p,r] olSev, -rj tl raJv yeyovoTcov rj I 

ovTOJV 7) Kal pLeXXovTCDV, (haavrojs 8e Kal to [ 

dvpLoeihes Tipaiivas Kal piiq Tiaiv els opyas iXdcov f 

KeKLvqpiivip tu) OvpLCp KadevSr], aAA' Tjavxa-cras p.ev \. 

TO) 8uo e'ihrj, to TpiTOV Se Kiviqaag, iv cL to <f)povetv I 

eyytyj/erai, ovtcos dvaTravrjTat, olad^ otl ttjs t' i 

aXrjdeias iv tw tolovtco pbaXiaTa aTrreTat Kal | 

B 7)KiaTa TTapdvopLot, t6t€ at oi/jeis (j^avTat^ovTai tcov J 

ivvTTVLCov. UavTeXaJs pLev ovv, ec/ir], olpiai ovtojs. 'I 

Tayra puev tolvvv cttI rrXiov i^-q)(9rjpL€V etneLV o he ; 
^ovXopieda yvcovaL, toS' eoTiv, d)s dpa Setvov tl Kal 

aypiov Acat dvopcov eTnOvpniov elSos eKaaTcp eveoTi, j 

Kal irdw SoKovaiv rjpLtov eviois pieTplois etvaf j 
TOVTO Se apa ev tols vttvols yiyveTai evSrjXov. el 
ovv tI Soko) Xeyeiv koI ^vyxoipels, ddpei. 'AAAa 
$vyx<Jop6j. 

" Cf. Browning, Bishop Blougram^s Apology, " And body 
gets its sop and holds its noise." 

Plato was no ascetic, as some have inferred from passages 
in the Republic, Laws, Gorgias, and Phaedo. Cf. Herbert 
L. Stewart, "Was Plato an Ascetic?" Philos. Rev., 1915, 
pp. 603-613; Dean Inge, Christian Ethics, p. 90: "The 
asceticism of the true Platonist has always been sane and 
moderate ; the hallmark of Platonism is a combination of 
self-restraint and simplicity with humanism." 

" Cf. Ephesians iv. 26 "Let not the sun go down upon 
your wrath." 

" iv TV ToioiTip: cf. 382 b, 465 a, 470 c, 492 c, 590 a, 
Lysis 212 c. Laws 625 d. 

"* This sentence contains 129 words. George Moore says, 
" Pater's complaint that Plato's sentences are long may be 
regarded as Pater's single excursion into humour." But 

338 

f 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

tive part, so that it may be lulled to sleep " and not 
disturb the better part by its pleasure or pain, but 
may suffer that in isolated purity to examine and 
reach out towards and apprehend some of the things 
unknoA^-n to it, past, present or future ; and when he 
has in like manner tamed his passionate part, and 
does not after a quarrel fall asleep * Avith anger still 
awake within him, but if he has thus quieted the 
two elements in his soul and quickened the third, in 
which reason resides, and so goes to his rest, you are 
aware that in such case'' he is most likely to apprehend 
truth, and the visions of his dreams are least likely 
to be lawless."'* "I certainly think so," he said. 
" This description has carried us too far,* but the point 
that we have to notice is this, that in fact there 
exists in every one of us, even in some reputed most 
respectable ,-'^ a terrible, fierce and lawless brood of 
desires, which it seems are revealed in our sleep. 
Consider, then, whether there is anything in what I 
say, and whether you admit it." " Well, I do." 

Pater is in fact justifying his own long sentences by Plato 
example. He calls this passage Plato's evening prayer. 

• Plato alwavs returns to the point after a digression 
Cf. 543 c, 471 c, 344 b, 568 d, 588 b, Phaedo 78 b, Theaet 
177 c, Protag. 359 a, Crat. 438 a, Polit. -2S7 a-b, 263 c, 
302 b. Laws 682 e, 697 c, 864 c, and many other passages. 
Cf. also Lvsias ii. 61 dXXd raiTa fj.b> i'^riX^V^ Demosth. 
De cor. 211", Aristot. De an. 403 b 16, also p. 193, note i, 
and Plato's carefulness in keeping to the point under dis- 
cussion in 353 c, Theaet. 182 c, 206 c, Meno 93 a-b, G<>rff. 
479 D-E, 459 c-D, etc. 

' For the irony of the expression cf. Txiws 633 d, Aesch. 
Eumen. 373, and for the thought Othello ni. iii. 138 : 

who has a breast so pure 
But some uncleanly apprehensions 
Keep leets and law-days, and in session sit 
With meditations lawful ? 

839 



:i 



PLATO 

II. Tov TOLVVV S-qfioTLKOv dvafxvqaOfjTt oiov 
C ecfjajjicv etvai. rjv 8e ttov yeyovojs ck vlov vtto 
(f)€i8o)Xa) TTarpl redpa^^ievos, ras p^pTjyu.aTtcrTiKras' 
€7n6vfilas rifjLOJVTL [xovas, rag Se fxr) dvayKaiovs, 
dAAa TratSta? re /cat KaXXcoTnayiov eVe/ca yiyvo- 
[xevas, drLixd^ovTL. rj yap; Nat. TiVyyevofxevos 
8e KOfiiporepoLs dvSpdai Kal fxeoToZs djv dpn 
Sii^Xdofiev eTTiBuixtaJv, opfx-qaas els v^piv re rrdcrav 
Kat TO eKet,vcov elSos /xtcret ri^s rod narpos ^etSa»- 
Xias, (f)vat.v Se tcov 8La(l)deLp6vrajv ^eXrlco e\oiV, 
D dyopbevos dpL(f>oripa>a€ KaTearrj els p-eaov dp.(/)otv 
TOiv TpoTTOLV, KaL pierpiws 817, (lis cperOy eKaarajv 
diToXavcov ovre dveXevdepov ovre Trapdvopuov fiiov 
^fj, SrjixoTiKos e^ oXiyapxi-KOV yeyovws. ^Yiv yap, 
€(^rj, Kal eartv avrrj r] So^a Trepl tov tolovtov. 
Ses TOLVVV, rjv S' eyw, TrdXiv tov tolovtov 17817 
TTpea^VTepov yeyovoTos veov vlov iv tols tovtov 
aS rjOeai TedpafXfxevov. TiOrjiiL. TideL tolwv Kal 
Ta avTa eKelva Trepl avTOV yLyvojxeva, dnep /cat 
E TrepL TOV iraTepa avTov, dyofxevov Te els Trdcrav 
Trapavofiiav, ovofiat^ojxevrjv 8' vtto tcov dyovTwv 
eXevOeplav aTraaav, ^orjOovvTa T€ rat? iv p.eaa) 
TavTaLS ivLdvpLLats Trarepa Te Kal tovs a'AAou? 
olKelovs, tovs 8' av vapa^or^dovvTas' OTav 8' 
eXTTLacooLv ol ^eLvol fxayoi Te Kal TvpavvoTTOLoi 
OVTOL jjiTj dXXcos TOV veov Kade^eiv, epcoTa Tiva 
avTcp iJ,7])(^ava)fjLevovs efXTTOLrjaaL TrpoardTrjv tcov 

" Cf. 559 D f. 

* eh fiicrov : cf, p. 249, note/. 

' Ironical d-Zj. See p. 300, note a. Cf. modern satire on 
" moderate " drinking and " moderate " preparedness. 
<* il)s c^eTo is another ironical formula like IVa 5^, ws &pa, etc. 

S40 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

II. " Now recall " our characterization of the demo- 
cratic man. His development was determined by 
his education from youth under a thrifty father who 
approved only the acquisitive appetites and dis- 
approved the unnecessary' ones whose object is enter- 
tainment and display. Is not that so ? " " Yes." 
" And by association Avith more sophisticated men, 
teeming with the appetites we have just described, 
he is impelled towards every form of insolence and 
outrage, and to the adoption of their way of life by 
his hatred of his father's niggardliness. But since 
his nature is better than that of his corrupters, being 
drawn both ways he settles down in a compromise '' 
between the two tendencies, and indulging and en- 
joying each in moderation, forsooth,*^ as he supposes."* 
he hves what he deems a life that is neither illiberal 
nor lawless, now transformed from an ohgarch to a 
democrat." " That was and is our belief about this 
type." " Assume,* then, again," said I, " that such a 
manwhenhe is older has ason bred in tum^in his ways 
of life." " I so assume." " And suppose the experi- 
ence of his father to be repeated in his case. He is 
drawn toward utter lawlessness, which is called by 
his seducers complete freedom. His father and his 
other kin lend support to' these compromise appetites 
while the others lend theirs to the opposite group. 
And when these dread magi* and king-makers come 
to realize that they have no hope of controlling the 
youth in any other way, they contrive to engender in 

' 0iii cf. Theaet. 191 c, Phileb. 33 d. 
^ This is the at of the succession of the generations. Cf. 
p. 247, note/. 

• Cf. 559 E. 

* An overlooked reference to the Magi who set up the 
false Smerdis. Cf. Herod, ill. 61 ff. 

341 



PLATO i 

j 

573 apyaJv /cat to. eTOLfjLa hiavefxo^evoiv €7n6v[jn,cov, j 
VTTOTTTepov /ctti fxeyav Kri(f)TJvd nva' rj rt^ aAAo otet j 
elvat Tov Twv tolovtojv epcora; OvSev eycoye, rj ■ 
8' 6'?, aAA' rj TOVTO. OvKovv orav irepl avrov j 
^opu^ovaai ai aAAat imdvpiiai, dvpLLap-drcDv re ' 
yejiovcrai Kal fivpcov Kal aT€(f)dvojv /cat olvojv /cat ! 
Tibv iv rats ToiauTais" avvovaiai's rjhovojv dvei- | 
fjbevcov, irrl ro eaxo-rov av^ovaai re Kal Tpe^ovaai \ 
vodov KevTpov epLTTOi-qcTCjDcn Tip Kr](f>T]Vt,, Tore Srj s 

B Sopv(f)opelTai re vno p-avias /cat olarpa ovros 6 \ 
TTpoardr-qg rrjg i/jvxrjs, Kal idv TLvas iv avro) ho^ag : 
7J emdvpiias ^d^rj TTOLOvpevas XPV^'^^^ '^'^^ ^'''''' \ 
inaicrxwop^evas , drro/CTetVet re /cat e^u) todet Trap 
avrov, eo)? av Kad-qprj aa)(f)poavvr]s, p^avias^ Se 
TrX-qpcjarj inaKrov. YlavreXibs, ^'<^'?j rvpawiKov 
dvhpos Aeyet? yeveaiv. ^Ap^ ovv, rjv 8 eyco, /cat ro 
TTCtAat 8td TO roLOvrov rvpavvos 6 "Epcu? Xeyerai; 
J^LvSvvevet, e<f)r]. Ovkovv, (3 ^t'Ae, elrrov, /cat 

C p^edvadelg dvrjp rvpavviKov Tt ^povrj/xa tcr;(ei; 
"Icr;^et ydp. Kat /itT^v o ye p,aiv6p,evos Kal vrro- 
KeKLvr]K(hs ov puovov dvOpcoTTOjv dAAd /cat 6ea>v 
eiTLX^ipeZ re Kal eATTi^et hvvarog elvai apxeiv. 
Kat p,dX , €017 • Tupawt/co? 8e, t^v 8 eyco, tS 

1 i5 rt A : ^ tI FDM. 2 ixavlas FD : rai /lav/as AM. 

» C/. Sywi). 205 D. 
* irpo(TTd.Tr)v : c/. 562 d and 565 c-d. 

" For TO. iroiixa cf. 552 b, Symp. 200 d and e, and Horace, 
Odes i. 31. 17 " frui paratis." 

^ Cf. Ale. I. 135 E ^pwra virdiTTepov and the fragment of 
Eubulus (fr. 41, Keck ii. p. 178) : 

Tis fj" 6 ypd^as TrpcDros dvdpunro}}' dpa 
^ K7]poTr\a(TTrjffas 'Epu6' vir6irT€pov; 

342 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

his soul a ruling passion " to be the protector * of his idle 
and prodigal*' appetites, a monstrous winged** drone. 
Or do you think the spirit of desire in such men is 
aught else ? " " Nothing but that," he said. " And 
when the other appetites, buzzing*' about it, replete 
Avith incense and myrrh and chaplets and ^vine, and 
the pleasures that are released in such revelries, mag- 
nifying and fostering it to the utmost, awaken in the 
drone the sting of unsatisfied yearnings,^ why then 
this protector of the soul has madness for his body- 
guard and runs amuck,^ and if it finds in the man any 
opinions or appetites accounted'* worthy and still 
capable of shame, it slays them and thrusts them forth 
until it purges * him of sobriety, and fills and infects 
him ynih frenzy brought in from outside.'" "A 
perfect description," he said, " of the generation of the 
tyrannical man." " And is not this analogy, "said I, 
" the reason why Love has long since been called a 
tyrant''?" "That may well be," he said. "And does 
not a drunken man,' mv friend," I said, " have some- 
thing of this tjTannical temper ? " " Yes, he has." 
" And again the madman, the deranged man, attempts 
and expects to rule over not only men but gods." "Yes 
indeed, he does," he said. " Then a man becomes 

* Cf. 564 D. 

f Cf. Phaedrus 253 e. 

» For oiffTp^ cf. Phaedr. 240 d. 

* For ■troiovfi.evas in this sense cf. 538 c, 498 a, 574 D. 
' Cf. on 560 D, p. 299, note c. 

* iiraKrov: cf. 405 b, Pindar, Pyth. vi. 10, Aesch. Seven 
atjainst Thebes 583. Soph. Track. 259. 

* Cf. 573 D, Eurip. Hippol. 538, Andromeda, fr. 136 
(Nauck) BeOiv rvpavvi . . , 'Epwy, and What Pl<xto Said, 
p. 546 on Symp. 197 b. 

' For drunkenness as « t\*rannical mood cf. Laws 649 b, 
671 B, Phaedr. 238 b. 

348 



PLATO 

BaifJiovLe, dvrjp a/cpt^cS? ytyverat, orav rj (f)va€i ^ 
eTTirrjSeviJLacrLv rj aix(f>oripoLs fiedvarLKos re Kal 
epojTLKOs Kal fieXayxoXiKOs yevrjraL. navreAcDs' 
fl€V ovv. 

III. Tlyverai [lev, to? eoiKev, ovrco /cat roLovrog 
dvrjp- t,fj Be Brj ttws; To tcov Trait^ovroiv , €(f>T}, 
D TOVTO au /cat ijJLOt ipeXs. Aeyco S-q, e(l>r]v. olfxai 
yap TO ixerd tovto ioprat, ylyvovrai Trap* avToZs 
/cat Kcj/xoi /cat ddXeiai /cat eralpai Kal rd Toiavra 
■ndvra, cSi^ ai^ "Epo)? Tvpavvos evSov oIkcov 8ta- 
KV^epva rd rrjg ^vx^js drravra. ^AvdyKt), €(f)7]. 
*A/)' ovv ov TToXXal Kal Setval Trapa^XaardvovaLv 
eTTt^u/xtat rjjJLepas re Kal WKTog eKdarrjs, ttoXXcov 
Seojxevai; IIoAAat fievroL. Ta)(v dpa dvaXicTKOv- 
rat, idv rives coat Trpoaohoi. Y\.(x)s S' ov; Kat pierd 
E TOVTO Br] BaveLOfMol Kal rfjs ovaias TTapaipeaeLs . 
I /A7)v; Urav oe o-q ttovt emAeLTTrj, apa ovk 
dvdyKr) fjiev to.? emdvp^ias ^odv TTVKvds re /cat 
CT^oSpa? evveveoTTevpievas, rovs 8 ojaTrep vtto 
KevTpcov eXavvop-evovs rcov re dXXcov eTndvpLLwv 
Kal 8ia(f)ep6vTios vrr' avTov tov epcoTOs, rrdaais Tat? 
aAAai? wcTTTep Sopvcfyopois rjyovpievov, olaTpdv /cat 
OKOTTeZv, Tt? Tt e^et, oi^ Suvarop' dcfjeXeudai aTTar'q- 
571 CTai^ra -^ ^laa-dfievov ; 'L(f)68pa y', e(^')7. 'Avay/catov 
Brj TTavTaxddev ^epeiv, -q /xeyaAat? ciStat re /cat 

" C/. Adam ad loc., who insists it means his origin as well 
as that of others, and says his character is still to be 
described. But it has been in c and before. 

* Cf. Phileb. 25 b and perhaps Rep. 427 e with 449 d. 
The slight jest is a commonplace to-day. Wilamowitz, Platon, 
ii. p. 351, says it is a fragment of an elegy. He forgets the 
Philebus. 
344 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

tyrannical in the full sense of the word, my firiend," 
I said, " when either by nature or by habits or by 
both he has become even as the drunken, the erotic, 
the maniacal." " Assuredly." 

III. " Such, it seems, is his origin and character,** 
but what is his manner of life ? " " As the wits say, 
you shall tell me.^ " " I do," I said ; " for, I take it, 
next there are among them feasts and carousals and 
revelUngs and courtesans ' and all the doings of those 
whose "^ souls are entirely swayed * by the indwelling 
tyrant Eros." " Inevitably," he said. " And do not 
many and dread appetites shoot up beside this master 
passion every day and night in need of many things ? " 
" Many indeed." " And so any revenues there may 
be are quickly expended." " Of course." " And 
after this there are borrowings and levyings ^ upon 
the estate ? " " Of course." " And when all these 
resources fail, must there not come a cry from the 
frequent and fierce nestlings ^ of desire hatched in his 
soul, and must not such men, urged, as it were by 
gcads, by the other desires, and especially by the 
ruling passion itself as captain of their bodyguard — 
to keep up the figure — must they not run wild and 
look to see who has aught that can be taken from 
him by deceit or violence ? " " Most certainly." 
" And so he is compelled to sweep it in from every 

« Cf. Vol. I. p. 160, note a, on 373 a. Emendations are 
superfluous. 

<* (Sj/ 4y : cf. 441 D-E 5tov, etc., 583 a iv w, and my review 
of Jowett and Campbell, A.J.P. xvi. p. 237. 

* Cf. Phaedr. 238 b-c. 

' For xapaip^ffeii cf. Thuc. i. 122. 1, Aristot. Pol. 1311 a 12, 
1315 a 38. 

» (vveveoTTtvfUvas: cf. Ale. I. 135 E, Laws 776 a, 949 c, 
Aristoph. Birds 699, 1 108. 

345 



PLATO 

oSvvais ^vvex^odai. ^AvayKoiov. ^Ap^ ovv, cooTrep 
at ev avTcp 'qSoval eTTiyiyvofxevat, ra>v ap-)(aiiov 
irXeov etxov Kal to. eKetvcov d(l)r}povvTo, ovtoj /cat 
avTOS d^LcocreL vecorepos wv rrarpos re /cat firjTpog 
nXeov €)(eiv /cat dtfiaipeladaL, edv to avrov fxepos 
dvaXcoar), aTrovet/xa/xevo? twv Trarpcpajv ; 'AAAo. 
Tt fJi'qv; €(/)rj. *Av Se 817 aura) firj eTTLrpeTTCoaiv, 

B dp' ov TO fiev TTpcoTov eTTtp^etpot dv /cAeVrett' /cat 
aTrarai' tovs yovias; Yldvrojs. 'Ottotc Se )u,7] 
SwatTo, dpvd^oi dv /cat ^idt^oiro pierd rovro; 
Olp,aL, €(/)r}. ^AvT€)(oiJi€Vcov hrj /cat pLaxop^evcov, a> 
davpidaie, yepovros re /cat ypaos, dp' evXa^r^dei-q 
dv /cat (jjelaaLTO fii] tl Spdaai rcov rvpavviKcov ; Ov 
TTavv, 7] S' 6g, kyojye dappuj rrepl rdv yovdcov tov 
TOLOvrov. 'AAA', (L 'ASet/xavre, irpos Ato?, eVe/ca 
vecoari (f)i.Xr]s Kal ovk dvay/cata? eraipas yeyovvia? 

C Tr]V TTCtAat (f)iX-qv Kal dvayKaiav fjc-qrepa, rj eVe/ca 
ojpaiov vecjoarl (f)iXov yeyovorog ovk dvayKaiav rov 
diopov re Kal dvayKaXov 7Tpe(y^vTT]v rrarepa Kal 
rGiv (f)LX<x)v dpxo.i6rarov 80/cet dv aoi 6 toiovtos 
TrXrjyals Te Sowat /cat KaradovXcoaaadai dv avrovs 
V7T* e/cetVot?, et els rrjv avrrjv olKiav dydyono; 
Nat pid At", 7] S' 6'?. Tt(f)6Spa ye jxaKapiov, rjv 8' 
iyu), eoLKev elvat to rupavviKov vlov TeKelv. Yidw 
y , €<f)rj. Tt 8', OTav Sr] rd Trarpos /cat pur^rpos 



" Cf. Aesch. Eumen. 554. 

* Cf. Gorg. 494 a fj ras icrxdrm XvttoIto Mirai. 

* Cf. Vol. I. 349 B f. 

■^ The word dvayKaiav means both " necessary " and 
"akin." Cf. Eurip. Androm. 671 ToiaOra Xda-Keis roiis 
dvayKaiovs (piKom. 

* For the idiom wXriyais . . . douvai cf. Phaedr^ 254 e 

346 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

source" or else be afflicted with great travail and 
pain.* " " He is." " And just as the new, upspringing 
pleasures in him got the better of the original passions 
of his soul and robbed them, so he himself, though 
younger, \sill claim the right to get the better" of his 
father and mother, and, after spending his own share, 
to seize and convert to his own use a portion of his 
father's estate." " Of course," he said, " what 
else ? " " And if they resist him, would he not at 
first attempt to rob and steal from his parents and 
deceive them ? " " Certainly." " And if he failed 
in that, would he not next seize it by force ? " "I 
think so," he said. " And then, good sir, if the old 
man and the old woman clung to it and resisted him, 
would he be careful to refrain from the acts of a 
tyrant ? " "I am not \\ithout my fears," he said, 
" for the parents of such a one." " Nay, Adeimantus, 
in heaven's name, do you suppose that, for the sake 
of a newly found belle amie bound to him by no neces- 
sary tie, such a one would strike the dear mother, his 
by necessity** and from his birth? Or for the sake of 
a blooming new-found hel ami, not necessary to his 
life, he would rain blows'^ upon the aged father past 
his prime, closest of his kin and oldest of his friends ? 
And would he subject them to those new favourites 
if he brought them under the same roof ? " " Yes, 
by Zeus," he said. " A most blessed lot it seems to 
be," said I, " to be the parent of a tyrant son." " It 
does indeed," he said. " And again, when the re- 
sources of his father and mother are exhausted^ and 

6bvv(us iSuKfP with Thompson's note. Cf. 566 c 6apir<fi 
Sudoral. For striking his father c/. supra 569 b, Latcs 
880 E ff., .\ristoph. Clouds 1375 ff., 1421 flF. 
^ For 6Ti\etTTj cf. 568 e, 573 e. 

^7 



PLATO 

D emXeLTTrj rov tolovtov, ttoXv Se i^hri ^vveiXeyyiivov 
€v avTO) fi TO rcx)v iqSovcjv afjLrjvos, ov TrpojTov fiev 
OLKiag Tivos icfxiifjeTaL tol)(ov t] rivos oipe vvKTCop 
lovros Tov ifiariov, fiera 8e ravra lepov tl veat- 
Koprjaei; /cat ev tovtols S-q ndaiv, as TrdXat, efj^e 
Solas' CK TratSoj Trepl KaXwv re /cat alaxpiov, ras 
St/cata? TTOiovpievas, at veojarl e/c SouAeia? AeAu- 
fjLevai, Sopv(f)opov(Tai rov epcora, Kparijcrovai jxer* 
€K€LVOv, at TTporepov fji€v ovap eXvovro ev vttvco, 

Eore r^v avros eVi vtto vopcoLS re /cat narpl 8rj[xoKpa- 
Tovfjievos iv eavTcp- rvpavvevdels 8e vtto epojTos, 
otos oAiya/ct? iyiyvero ovap, vTTap roLovrog del 
yevojjievos, ovt€ tivos (f)6vov Seivov a^e^erat ovre 
575 ^pdofjuaros ovt epyov, dXXd rvpavviKOJS ev avro) 6 
epoJS ev TTaarj avapx^a /cat dvo^ia ^wv, are avros 
ojv fiovapxos, rov e^ovrd re avrov uiarrep ttoXlv 
d^et errl irdaav roXfiav, odev avrov re /cat rov Trepl 
avrov dopv^ov dpei/tei, rov /xev e^codev elaeXrjXvdora 
dvo KaKTJs o/xtAta?, rov 8 evhodev vtto rcov avrwv 
rpoTTOjv /cat eavrov dvedevra /cat eXevdepatdevra. 
ri ovx ovros 6 ^los tov roiovrov; Ovros fiev ovv, 
6017 . Kai dv fiev ye, rjv 8' eyco, oXiyoi ol roiovroi 

B ev TToXei (Lai /cat to aAAo ttXtjOos a<jo<f>povfj. 



" Cf. Aleno 72 a, Cratyl. 401 e, Blavdes on Arlstoph. 
Clouds 297. 

^ He becomes a Totxi>'pi'xos or a XwttoSvttis (Aristoph. 
Froffs 772-773, Birds 497, Clouds 1327). Cf. 575 b, Laws 
831 E. 

* vewKoprjcrei is an ironical litotes. So i^d\peTai in the pre- 
ceding line. 

•* For iroiov/iivas cf. 573 h. For the thought cf. 538 c. 

348 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

fail such a one, and the swarm " of pleasures collected 
in his soul is gro>\'B great, will he not first lay hands 
on the walP of someone's house or the cloak of some- 
one who walks late at night, and thereafter he \^'ill 
make a clean sweep" of some temple, and in all these 
actions the behefs which he held from boyhood about 
the honourable and the base, the opinions accounted 
just,'' will be overmastered by the opinions newly 
emancipated' and released, which, serving as body- 
guards of the ruhng passion, will prevail in alhance 
with it — I mean the opinions that fomaerly were 
freed from restraint in sleep, when, being still under 
the control of his father and the laws, he maintained 
the democratic constitution in his soul. But now, 
when under the t}Tanny of his ruling passion, he is 
continuously and in waking hours what he rarely 
became in sleep, and he will refrain from no atrocity 
of murder nor from any food or deed, but the passion 
that dwells in him as a tyrant will live in utmost 
anarchy and lawlessness, and, since it is itself sole 
autocrat, will urge the polity,^ so to speak, of him in 
whom it dwells ^ to dare anything and everything in 
order to find support for himself and the hubbub of 
his henchmen,'' in part introduced from outside by 
evil associations, and in part released and liberated 
within by the same habits of life as his. Is not this 
the life of such a one ? " " It is this," he said. " And 
if," I said, " there are only a few of this kind in a city, 
and the others, the multitude as a whole, are sober- 

• Cf. 567 E. 

' Cf. on 591 E. 

Tbv ixovra : cf. Phaedr. 239 c. Laws 837 b. Soph. 
Antig. 790 and also Rep. 610 c and e. 

* For the tyrant's companions cf. Newman, i. p. 274, 
note 1. 

849 



PLATO 

egeXdovTes dXXov Ttva hopv^opovai rvpavvov r^ 
fiiadov iTTLKovpovGLv, idv 7TOV TToAejLtos" fj- iav 8' 
€V eipr^vrj re Kal rjavxio. yevcjovrai, avrov Srj iv rfj 
TToAei KUKo. BpaJat apuKpa TToXKd. To. TTola Br] 
Aeyeis; Ola kX4tttovgl, roixc^pvxovaL, ^aXavrio- 
TOfiovat, X(x)7ToSvTovaiv, iepoavXovaiv , dvhpano- 
Si^oj/raf ecrrt S' ore avKO(f>avTovacv, idv Swarol 
ojcTi Xiyeiv, koI i/jevBofjiaprvpovGL Kal SojpoSo- 

C Kovaiv. HyLiKpd y , €(f)rj, Ka/ca Xeyeis, idv oXiyoi 
waiv OL TOLOVTOi. Td yap afiiKpa, '^v 8' iyco, Trpos 
ra pL€ydXa ajxtKpd iart, Kal ravra 817 Travra Trpos 
rvpavvov TTOvrjpLa re Kal ddXioTqri, rroXecos, to 
Xeyofxevov, o?5S' LKrap ^dXXei. orav yap 817 ttoXXoI 
ev TToXei yeva>vraL ol roiovrot Kal dXXoi ol ^vv- 
CTTOfievoi, avTolsy Kal a'iadcovrai iavrcov to ttXtjOos, 
Tore OVTOL €lulv ol tov Tvpavvov yevvcovres /xerct 
S-q/Jiov dvoias iKelvov, os dv avrwv fxdXiara avros 

D iv avra> p^iyiarov Kal TrXelarov iv rfj iffvxf] rvpav- 
vov €XJ}' Et/coraj? y* , €(f)r]- rvpavvLKwraros ydp 
dv eirj. OvKovv iav jxev eKovres vneLKaxJiv idv 
8e firj iTTLrpeTTT) r) ttoXis, axjirep rare ixrjripa Kal 
TTarepa iK6Xat,€v, ovro) irdXiv rrjv narplSa, idv 
otos r fj, KoXaaerai iTreiaayofievos veovs iraipovs, 
Kal VTTO rovrois 817 hovXevovcrav rrjV TraAat <f>iXr]v 



° Cf. the similar lists of crimes in Oorg. 508 e, Xen. Mem. 
i. 2. 62. 

'' So Shaw and other moderns argue in a somewhat 
different tone that crimes of this sort are an unimportant 
matter. 
S5(i 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

minded, the few go forth into exile and serve some 
tyrant elsewhere as bodyguard or become mercen- 
aries in any war there may be. But if they spring up 
in time of peace and tranquilhty they stay right there 
in the city and effect many small evils." " ^Tiat 
kind of evils do you mean ? " " Oh, they just steal, 
break into houses, cut purses, strip men of their gar- 
ments, plunder temples, and kidnap," and if they are 
fluent speakers they become sycophants and bear 
false witness and take bribes." " Yes, small evils 
indeed,**" he said, " if the men of this sort are few." 
" WTiy, yes," I said, " for small evils are relatively 
small compared with great, and in respect of the 
corruption and misery of a state all of them 
together, as the saying goes, don't come within hail " 
of the mischief done by a tyrant. For when men 
of this sort and their followers become numerous in a 
state and realize their numbers, then it is they who, 
in conjunction with the folly of the people, create a 
tyrant out of that one of them who has the greatest 
and mightiest tyrant in his own soul." " Naturally," 
he said, " for he would be the most tyrannical." 
" Then if the people yield willingly — 'tis well,*^ but if 
the city resists him, then, just as in the previous case 
the man chastized his mother and his father, so now in 
turn will he chastize his fatherland if he can, bringing 
in new boon companions beneath whose sway he 
will hold and keep enslaved his once dear mother- 

* ol'5' Ixrap ^dWei was proverbial, " doesn't strike near," 
"doesn't come within range." Cf. Aelian, y.A. xv. 29. 
Cf. also oCo' (-Tfis, Symp. 198 b, 221 d, Herod, ii. 121, 
Demosth. Da cor. 97. 

"* In the Greek the apodosis is suppressed. Cf. Protag. 
225 D. Adam refers to Herwerden, Mn. xix. pp. 338 f. 

851 



PLATO 

fiTjTpiSa T€, KprJTes (f)aai, Kal TrarpiSa e^ei re Kal 
Speipei,- Kal rovro 817 to re'Ao? dv etrj rrjs inidviiias 

E Tov ToiovTov dvSpos. ToVTO, 7) 8' OS, TTavTaTTaal 
ye. OvKovv, rjv 8' eyo), ovroi ye roioihe yiyvovrai 
iota /cat TTpLv apxeLv rrpajrov /xev ois av gvvojacv, 
7] KoXa^Lv eavToJv ^vvovres Kal ttoLv erot^oi? 
576 VTTrjperelv , rj edv tov tl Becovrai, avTol VTronecrou- 
Tes, TTavra ap^Ty/xara roXncouTes TTOtelv cos OLKeloi, 
StaTrpa^a/xei^ot 86 dAAorptot; Kat orc/ioSpa ye. 
Ev TTavTl dpa tco ^lco ^cDcrt ^t'Aot /xev ovSeiroTe 
ovoevL, act 8e tov SeCTTrd^ovTc? •^ SovXevovTes 
aXXo), eXevdepias 8e Kal ^tAtas dXrjdovs TvpavviKT] 
(ftvoLS del dyevaros. ITav'u jxev ovv. "^A/a' ovv 
ovK opddJs dv Tovs TOLovTovs dTTLGTovs KaXotfxev ; 
Hd>S 8 ov; Kat fjLTjv dSiKovs ye djs olov re 

B fxaXtaTa, etnep opdcos ev rots irpoadev wjjloXo- 
yijaafiev nepl BiKaiocrvvrjs, olov eoTiv. 'AAAci p.rjv, 
ri 8' OS, opdcbs ye. Ke^aAattoacu/i,e0a tolvvv, -qv 8' 
eyaj, tov KaKiOTOV. ecjTi 8e ttov, olov ovap 8t- 
rjXoofiev, OS dv vnap tolovtos fj. riavu fxev ovv. 
OvKovv ovTos yiyverai, os dv TvpavvtKcoTaTOS 
<f)vaeL d)v ixovapxrjo^r] , Kal oaco dv TrXeico xpdvov ev 
TVpavvihi, ^ta>, tooovtu) fxdXAov tolovtos. 'Avay- 
KT], e<f)r] SiaSe^dfievos tov Xoyov 6 TXavKcov, 

" So also the Hindus of Bengal, The Nation, July 13, 1911, 
p. 28. Cf. Isoc. iv. 25 vaTpiSa Kal /x-qripa, Lysias ii. 18 
fi-qTipa. Kal irarpiSa, Plut. 792 E {An seni resp.) ij di trarph 
Kal ixTqrph (is Kp^rer KaXovffi. Cf. Vol. I. p. 303, note e, on 
414 E, Menex. 239 a. 

* Cf. the accidental coincidence of Swinburne's refrain, 
" This is the end of every man's desire " {Ballad of Burdens). 

* vwoireffovTes : cf. on 494 c VTroKeiaovraL, 

^ (rx77/uara was often used for the figures of dancing. Cf. 

358 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

land" — as the Cretans name her — and fatherland. 
And this would be the end of such a man's desire. *" " 
" Yes," he said, " this, just this." " Then," said I, 
" is not this the character of such men in private life 
and before they rule the state : to begin with they 
associate with flatterers, who are ready to do anything 
to serve them, or, if they themselves want something, 
they themselves fawn'' and shrink from no contortion'' 
or abasement in protest of their friendship, though, 
once the object gained, they sing another tune.* " 
" Yes indeed," he said. " Throughout their lives, 
then, they never know what it is to be the friends of 
anybody. They are always either masters or slaves, 
but the tyrannical nature never tastes freedom^ or 
true friendship." " Quite so." " May we not 
rightly call such men faithless^ ? " " Of course." 
*' Yes, and unjust to the last degree, if we were right in 
our previous agreement about the nature of justice." 
" But surely," he said, " we were right." " Let us 
sum up,'' then," said I, " the most evil type of man. 
He is, I presume, the man who, in his waking hours, 
has the qualitieswe found in his dreamstate." " Quite 
so." " And he is developed from the man who, being 
bv nature most of a tyrant, achieves sole power, and 
the longer he lives as an actual tyrant the stronger 
this quality becomes." " Inevitably," said Glaucon, 
taking up the argument. 

Laves 669 d, Aristoph. Peace 323, Xen. Symp. 7. 5, Eurip. 
Cyclops 221. Isoc, Antld. 183 uses it of gymnastics. 

* Cf. Phaedr. 241 a &\\oi -yeyovw, Demosth. xxxiv. 13 
?Tepos fiSrj . . . Kai ovx o airros. 

* Cf. \j\ic\as\, Nigrlnus 15 ayeva-roi fiev i\€v$(pla^, direiparos 
Se vapp-qcxias, Aristot. Eth. Mc. 1176 b 19, 1179 b 15. 

» Cf. Laws 730 c, 705 a. 

* Cf. Phaedr. 239 d iv KetpdXaiov. 

VOL. 11 2 a 353 



PLATO 

IV. 'Ap' ovv, -^v 8' iyco, OS av ^aivrjTai TTomj- 
C poraros, Kal dOXLcoTaros (f)ain^a€TaL ; /cat o? av 
TrXelaTov -^povov /cat /xaAtara Tvpavvevcrr}, jxaXiard. 
re Koi TrXeZaTOv y^povov tolovtos yeyovcbs ttj dXr)- 
deta; tols Se 77oAAots ttoXXo, Kal SoKet. ^AvdyKT), 
e<j}ri, ravra yovv ovtcos ^X^^^- '^^o ti ovv, -^v 
8' eyco, 6 ye rvpavviKos Kara ttjv rvpavvovfxevrjv 
TToXiv dv eXrj ojJLOLOT-qrL, Stj/jlotlkos 8e Kara Srjp,0' 
KparovpievrjV, Kal ol a'AAot ovrcos; Tt jJirjv; Ovk- 
ovv, o TL ttoXls TTpos TToXiv dpeTTj Kal evhaifiovia, 
T) Tovro Kal dvTjp Trpos dvhpa; 11 oj? yap ov; Tt 
ovv dperfj rvpawovfievrj TToXig npos ^aaiXevopLevrjv, 
oiav TO TTpwrov Sn^XOajjiev ; Ildv rovvavriov, ecfyr^' 
7] fiev yap dpiarrj, tj Se KaKLarr]. Ovk ipT^aofxai,, 
cTttov, oTTorepav Xeyeis' SijXov ydp' dAA' ev- 
haijxovias re av /cat ddXiorriros (Laavrcas ■^ dXXcos 
Kpiveis; Kal p.rj iKTrXrjTTcLfieda Trpos tov rvpawov 
€va ovra ^Xerrovres, /-tT^S' ei ri-ves oXiyoi nepl 
eKelvov, dXX ws XPV oAt^v ttjv ttoXlv elaeXOovras 
E Oedaaadaiy KarahvvTes els (XTracrar Kal ISovres 
ovTUi ho^av d7TO(j)aLVO)pi,eda. 'AAA' opdcos, ^4*1 > 
TTpoKaXet- Kal BfjXov Travrt, ort rvpawov fievrjs fxev 
OVK eariv ddXicorepa, ^aatXevo/JLevrjs 8e ovk 

» Cf. Gorgias 473 c-e. 

* Cf. the defiance of 473 a and 579 d kSlv el fi-fi n^ doKei, 
Phaedr. 211 e ov5k hv 6 was SxXos avrb iiratveffr), and Phileb. 
67 B, also Gorg. 473 e " you say what nobody else would 
say," and perhaps 500 d 5ta^o\r] S' iv -traai ■iroWij. Cf. 
Schopenhauer's " The public has a great many bees in its 
bonnet." 
354. 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

IV. " And shall we find," said I, " that the man 
who is shown to be the most e\al ^vill also be the most 
miserable, and the man who is most of a tjTant for 
the longest time is most and longest miserable " in 
sober truth ? Yet the many have many opinions.^ " 
" That much, certainly," he said, " must needs be 
true." " Does not the tyrannical man," said I, 
"correspond to the tyrannical state in simihtude," the 
democratic to the democratic and the others like- 
wise ? " " Surely." " And may we not infer that 
the relation of state to state in respect of virtue and 
happiness is the same as that of the man to the man?" 
" Of course." " \\Tiat is, then, in respect of \artue, 
the relation of a city ruled by a tyrant to a royal city 
as we first described it ? " " They are direct con- 
traries," he said; " the one is the best, the other 
the worst." " I'll not ask which is which," I said, 
" because that is obvious. But again in respect of 
happiness and ^^Tetchedness, is your estimate the 
same or different ? And let us not be dazzled ^ by 
fixing oiu- eyes on that one man, the tyrant, or a few « 
of his court, but let us enter into and survey the entire 
city, as is right, and declare our opinion only 
after we have so dived to its uttermost recesses 
and contemplated its hfe as a whole." " That is a 
fair challenge," he said," and it is clear to every- 
body that there is no city more wretched than that 
in which a tyrant rules, and none more happy than 

' Cf. Tim. 75 d. Rep. 555 a, Parmen. 133 x. For the 
analogy of individual and state cf. on 591 e. 

"* Cf. 5~1 A, 591 D, 619 A aveK-irXriKTos, Crat. 394 b, 
Gorg. 523 d, Protag. 355 b. Cf. also Epictet. iii. 22. 28 vrb 
7-^j (pavTOffias Tr(pi\afj.iro/x(i>ois, and Shelley, "... accursed 
thing to gaze on prosperous tjTants with a dazzled eye." 

* £1 Twes: cf. Gorg, 521 b e'dy n ^X". 

Sd5 



PLATO 

€vBai fxovearepa. 'A/d' ovv, rjv 8' iyco, /cat Trepl 
577 TOJv dvSpcov TO. avra ravra TrpoKaXovjJievos opdoJs 
av TTpoKaXoipirjv, afitov Kpiveiv Trepl avrcov eKelvov, 
OS ovvarai rj) oiavoia eis avopos rjoos evovs ouoeLv, 
/cat firj Kaddirep Trat? e^oiSev 6pa)v iKTrX-qTrerai 

VTTO TTJS T(X)V TVpaVVLKOJV TTpoaTaaeCOS, 7]V TTpos 

rovs e^co crxf]P-o.TLt,ovTaL, dXX' LKavaJs Stopa; et 
ovv oloifMrjv Setv eKeivov Travras rjfxds aKoveiv, rod 
Suvarov jxev Kplvai, ^vvcpKrjKoros Se ev rep avrcp 
/cat TTapayeyovoros ev re rats xar olKLav Trpd^eatv, 

B d)s irpog exdarovs rovs olKeiovs ^X^''* ^^ ^^^ 
/xaAtCTTa yvp^vos dv 6(f)deLr) rrjs rpayLKrjs (TKevfjs, 
/cat ev av rots SrjpLoaioLs Kivhvvois, /cat ravra 
Ttdvra ISovra KeXevoijxev e^ayyeXXeiv , rraJs 'e^^i 
evBaipLOVLas /cat ddXtorrjros 6 rvpawos TTpds rovs 
dXXovs; ^OpOorar dv, e^t], /cat ravra TTpoKaXoto. 
BoyAet ovv, rjv 8 eyoj, TTpoaTTOir^awfieda 7]p,ets 
elvai rcov Svvarojv dv Kplvai /cat •^'87^ evrv^ovrcov 
roiovroLs, Iva exojfxev oaris aTiOKpLveZrai a 
epoircofxev ; Yldw ye. 

C V. "Wi 87J /xot, eSrjv, whe GKoiret,. rrjv op^oio- 

" For the contrast of tyranny and kingdom cf. 587 b, 
Polit. 276 E. It became a commonplace in later orations 
on the true king. Cf. Diimmler, Prohgomena, pp. 38-39. 

* The word irpoardcrews is frequent in Polybius. Cf. also 
Boethius iv. chap. 2. Cf. 1 Maccabees xv. 32, " When he 
saw the glory of Simon, and the cupboard of gold and silver 
plate, and his great attendance [TrapdaTacnv]." Cf. also Isoc. 
ii. 32 6\^Lv, and Shakes. Measure for Measure 11. ii. 59 
" ceremony that to great ones 'longs," Henry V. iv. i. 280 
"farced title running 'fore the king." 

" For axofJ-^Ti^ovTai cf. Xen. Oecon. 2. 4 abv axvi^'^ ° <^^ 
irepil3^^\T}(rai, Dio Cass. iii. fr. 13. 2 (rxfJIJ-o-ri-cTa.^ . . eaiTov 
and (7X'7M«^"''M0St ^ep- '^25 b, 49-4 d. 
356 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

that governed by a true king." " " And would it 
not also be a fair challenge," said I, " to ask you to 
accept as the only proper judge of the two men the 
one who is able in thought to enter with understand- 
ing into the very soul and temper of a man, and who 
is not like a child viewing him from outside, over- 
awed by the tyrants' great attendance,** and the pomp 
and circumstance which they assume * in the eyes 
of the Morld. but is able to see through it all ? And 
what if I should assume, then, that the man to whom 
we ought all to listen is he who has this capacity 
of judgement and who has lived under the same roof 
■with a tyrant •* and has witnessed his conduct in his 
own home and observed in person his dealings with 
his intimates in each instance where he would best 
be seen stripped* of his vesture of tragedy.' and who 
had hkewise observed his beha\iour in the hazards 
of his pubHc hfe — and if we should ask the man who 
has seen all this to be the messenger to report on the 
happiness or misery of the tyrant as compared •with 
other men ? " " That also would be a most just 
challenge," he said. " Shall we, then, make believe," 
said I, " that we are of those who are thus able to 
judge and who have ere now lived with tyrants, so 
that we may have someone to answer our questions ? " 
" By all means." 

V. " Come, then," said I, " examine it thus. Re- 

' It is an easy conjecture that Plato is thinking of himself 
and Dionysius I. Cf. Lawg 711 a. 

• Cf. Thackeray on Ludovicus and Ludovicus rex, 
Hazlitt, " Strip it of its externals and what is it but a jest? " 
also Gorg. 533 e, Xen. Hiero 2. 4, Lucian. Somnium seu 
Gall us 24 f/v di vroKv-J/as togs to. y' tvbov . . . , Boethius, Cons. 
iii. chap. 8 (Loeb, p. 255), and for the thought Herod, i. 99. 

' Cf. Longinus, On the SiibUine 7 t6 f^oidev -rpoffrpaytfidoi- 
f^eifoy, and Diimmler, Akademika p. 5. 

357 



PLATO 

Trjra avaixLfxvrjaKOfxevos Trjs re TToXeiog /cat tov 
dvSpos, ovTO) Kad" eKaarov iv [xepei ddpcov, rd 
TTaO-qfiara cKarepov Aeye. Ta TTOca; €(f>rj. Ilpaj- 
Tov p,€v, riv 8' eyco, (hs ttoXiv etTretv, iXevdepav rj 
SovXrjv Tr)v rvpavvovudvrjv ipeis; '0.s olov r', ec^i?, 
(jLaXiara SovXrjv. Kat p,rjv opag ye iv avrfj SeuTTO- 
ras Kal iXevdepovs- 'Oped, e(j)-q, apLiKpov ye ti 
TOVTO' TO Se oXov, COS €7TOS eLTTelv, iv avrfj Kat, to 
i7Ti€U<€(7TaTOV drifxcDS re Kal ddXicos BovXov. Et 
D oSv, elrrov, ofioLos dvrjp rfj ttoXcl, ov /cat €V eKeivcp 
dvayKT] r7]v avrrjv rd^LV ivelvai, /cat noXXrjs fiev 
SouAeta? re /cat dveXevdepias yepueLV rr]v ifjvxrjv 
avrov, /cat ravra avrrjs rd fiepr] SovXeveiv, arrep 
r^v imeiKearara, apuKpov Se /cat to [xoxOrjporarov 
/cat fjiavLKcorarov SeaTro^etv; 'AvdyK-q, €(f)rj. Tt 
ovv; SovXrjv 7} iXevdepav rrjv roiavrrjv (f)'qaeis 
etvat, ifjvx'>]v; AovXrjv hiq ttov eycoye. Ovkovv t) 
ye av SovXrj Kal rvpavvovpievrj rroXis rjKiara Troiel 
a ^ovXerai; UoXv ye. Kat rj rvpavvovpLevrj dpa 
E ^'^X^ rJKiara noL'^aei a dv ^ovXi^dfj, d)s Trepl oXt]s 
eLTTelv ipvx'fjs' VTTo 8e oiarpov del iXKOfjievrj ^ia ra- 
paxrjs Kal pLerap,eXeias fxearr] ear at. rTcD? yap 
ov; riAoycrtav 8e ■^ Trevofjievrjv dvdyKrj rrjv rv- 
578 pavvovfiivrjv ttoXlv etvat; Hevofxevrjv. Kat ^vx^v 

" In Menex. 238 e Plato says that other states are com- 
posed of slaves and masters, but Athens of equals, 
* For Ta^iv cf. 618 b i/'i'X'?' ^^ rd^iv. 
' y^fieiv : cf. 544 c, 559 c, Gorg. 522 e, 525 a. 
"* Cf. 445 B, Gorg. 467 b, where a verbal distinction is 

358 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

call the general likeness between the city and the 
man, and then observe in turn what happens to each 
of them." " What things ? " he said. " In the first 
place," said I, " will you call the state governed by 
a tjTant free or enslaved, speaking of it as a state ? " 
" Utterly enslaved," he said. " And yet you see in 
it masters and freemen." " I see," he said, " a small 
portion of such, but the entirety, so to speak, and 
the best part of it, is shamefully and wretchedly 
enslaved." " " If, then," I said, " the man resembles 
the state, must not the same proportion * obtain in 
him, and his soul teem" with boundless ser\'ility and 
illiberaUty, the best and most reasonable parts of it 
being enslaved, while a small part, the worst and the 
most frenzied, plays the despot ? " " Inevitably," 
he said. " Then "will you say that such a soul is 
enslaved or free ? " " Enslaved, I should suppose." 
" Again, does not the enslaved and tyrannized city 
least of all do what it really wishes ^} " " Decidedly 
so." " Then the t}Tannized soul — to speak of the soul 
as a whole ' — also will least of all do what it wishes, 
but being always perforce driven and drawn by the 
gadfly of desire it will be full of confusion and repent- 
ance.^ " " Of coxu^e." " And must the tyrannized 
city be rich or poor ? " " Poor." " Then the tyrant 

drawn with which Plato does not trouble himself here. In 
Lavs 661 B (TLdifxy is used. Cf. ibid. 688 b Td.vai'Tia raii 
^ov\r,ae<nv, and Herod, ill. 80. 

• C/. Cratyl. 392 c js to 6\ov eixeiv yevos. 

' Cf. Julian, Or. ii. 50 c. In the Stoic philosophy the 
sttdtus repents, and "omnis stultitia fastidio laborat sui." 
Cf. also Seneca, De bene/, iv. 34 " non mutat sapiens 
consilium . . . ideo numquam ilium poenitentia subit," 
Von Amim, Stoic. Vet. Frag. iii. 147. 21, 149. 20 and 33, 
Stob. Ec. ii. 1 13. 5, 102. 22, and mv emendation of Eclogue* 
IL 104. 6 W. in Claa*. Phil. xi. p. 338, 

S59 



PLATO 

apa TvpawiKTjv Trevixpav Kal anXyjarov dvayKT] del 
etvai. OvTCog, t^ S' os. Tt Sc; (l)6^ov ydfieiv dp' 
OVK avdyKf] ttjv re roiavTiqv ttoXlv tov re tolovtov 
dvBpa; HoXX^ ye. 'OSf/a/xous 8e /cat arevay- 
fxovs Kal dpn^vovs Kal dXyiqhova? o'lei ev rcvi aAAi7 
TrXeiovs evpriaeiv; Ou8a/xa»?. 'Ei' dvhpl 8e r^yel 
rd Toiavra ev dXXco rivl irXeia) elvai r) ev rat 
fiaivofjuevcp vtto eTndvfiLcbv re Kal epcorcov tovtoj 
Tcp TvpavviKcp; Ylcos yap dv; e(f>r]. Ei? rrdvra 

B §7^, OLfxai, ravrd re Kal dXXa rotavTa dno^Xeipas 
riqv ye ttoXiv roJv TToXeoiv ddXicordrr^v cKptvas. 
OvKovv opdcJos; e^^. Kat [xdXa, fjv S' eyo). 
dXXd irepl tov dvSpos av tov TvpavvLKOv tL Xeyets 
els TavTd raura dTTo^XeTTOJv ; Ma/cpoi, e(f)T^y ddXico- 
TaTov elvat tojv dXXojv aTravTOiv. Tovto, rfv 5 
eyd), ovKeT* opdws Xeyeig. YlaJs; 77 8' os. 
OvTTix}, e(f>rjv, otfjiai, ovtos eoTLv 6 toiovtos jJidXiaTa. 
'AAAa TLs p-ijv; "OBe lacos croi en 8o^et elvai 

C TovTov d6Xi(x)Tepos. UoLos; "O? dv, ■^v 8 iyco, 
TvpavvLKOs (x)V fjirj lSicottjv ^lov KaTa^LO), aAAd 
hvaTVX'^S 77 Kal avTCo vtto tivos avfX(f)opds e/c- 
TropiaOfj ojoTe Tvpdvvcp yeviaOai. TeK/jbaipOfxai ae, 
e(f)rj, €K tG)V TTpoeiprjfjLevojv dXrjOrj Xeyeiv. Nai, 171^ 
8' iyu)- dXX* ovK o'ieadai XPV "^^ rotaura, oAA' ed 

" Cf. Laws 832 a neivCxri rijv t/'i'X'?''. Xen. Symp. 4. 36 
irtivGicTL xPV/J-o-Tuv, Oecon. xiii. 9 TrewQtTL yap tov iiraivov, 
Aristot. Pol. 1277 a 24 " Jason said he was hungrj^ when he 
was not a tyrant," Shakes. Tempest i. ii. 112 "so dry he 
was for sway." Cf. Novotny, p. 192, on Epist. vii. 335 b, 
also Max. Tyr. Diss. iv. 4 ri yap &v el'ij wevccrTepov wdpos 
iTTidv/xovvTos diTiveKwi . . . ; Julian, Or. ii. 85 b, Teles (Hense), 

860 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

soul also must of necessity always be needy " and suffer 
from unfulfilled desire." " So it is," he said. " And 
again, must not such a city, as well as such a man, be 
full of terrors and alarms ? " " It must indeed." "And 
do you think you will find more lamentations and 
groans and wailing and anguish in any other city ? " 
" By no means." " And so of man, do you think 
these things will more abound in any other than in 
this tyrant type, that is maddened by its desires and 
passions ? " " How could it be so ? " he said. " In 
vievr of all these and other like considerations, then, 
I take it, you judged that this city is the most miser- 
able of cities." " And was I not right ? " he said. 
" Yes, indeed," said I. " But of the tyrant man, 
what have you to say in \iew of these same things ? " 
" That he is far and away the most miserable of all," 
he said. " I cannot admit," said I, " that you are 
right in that too." " How so ? " said he. " This 
one," said I, " I take it, has not yet attained the 
acme of misery.* " " Then who has ? " " Perhaps 
you will regard the one I am about to name as still 
more wretched." " What one ? " " The one," said 
I, " who, being of tyrannical temper, does not hve 
out'' his hfe in private station •* but is so unfortunate 
that by some unhappy chance he is enabled to 
become an actual tyrant." " I infer from what has 
already been said," he replied, " that you speak 
truly. " " Yes , ' ' said I , " but it is not enough to suppose 
such things. We must examine them thoroughly by 

pp. 32-33. For the thought see also Gorg. 493-194. €/. also 
supra 521 a with 416 z, Phaedr. 279 c, and Epist. 355 c. 

* Cf. supra on 508 e, p. 104, note c. 

« Cf. Protag. 355 a. Ale. I. 104 e, 579 c. 

* Stallbaum quotes Plut. De rirhit. et vit. p. 101 d, Lucian, 
Herm. 67 l5td.Ti}» ^iov f^v, Philo, Vit. Mos. 3. 

361 



PLATO 

fidXa Tcp TOLOVTCp^ Xoycp OKOTretv. irepl yap toi 
rov fieyLCTTOV rj aKeiptg, ayaBov re ^lov Kal KaKov. 
Opdorara, rj S' os. TiKonei S-q, el dpa rl Xeyoj. 
D So/cet yap fxoi Sett' ivvorjaat, e/c rcovSe nepl avrov 
crKOTTOvvras. *EiK tlvcov; 'E^ evos eKaarov tu)v 
tStatrajv, oaoi TrXovatoi iv irokeaw avSpdiToSa 
TToAAa KeKTrji'Tai. ovtol yap rovro ye Txpoaop-oiov 
exovcri toIs Tvpdvvois, to ttoXXcov apx^i-v Sta^e/aet 
Be TO €K€LVov ttXtjOos. Ata^eptt yap. Otad^ ovv 
OTL o5toi dSecos exovai Kal ov (fio^ovvrai tovs 
OLKeras; Tt yap av ^o^oIvto; Ovhev, etnov 
dXXd TO auTLov euvoels; Nat, on ye rrdaa rj ttoXls 
E evl eKdoTOJ ^orjdel rajv IStcoraJv. KaXa>s, rjv 8 
iyco, Xeyeis. ri he; el ris decbv dvBpa eva, ortp 
eoTLV dvSpdTToSa TrevTrJKOvra t] TrAeico, dpas e/c ttjs 
TToXecos avrov re Kal yvvaiKa Kal TratSa? Qeiri et? 
€p7]fxiav p,erd rrjs dXXrjs ovaias re Kal roJv oiKercov, 
OTTov avro) p.7]8els rcov eXevdepoJv fxeXXot porj- 
drjaeiv, ev rroiu) dv rivi koL rroccp <j}6^cp oiei yeve- 
adai avrov Trepi re avrov Kal rraiBoiv Kai yvvaiKos, 
fjLT] aTToXoLvro VTTO rG)v OLKercbv; 'Ei^ Travri, -q o 
579 OS, eywye. Ovkovv dvayKd^oiro dv rivas tJBt] 
OcoTTeveLv avrdJv rcbv BovXojv, Kal VTnaxvelavai 

^ On r<^ TOLovT(f3, the reading of the mss., see note a below. 



' Adam ad loc, emends ri^ tolovtcj} to rw toiovtw, insisting 
that the ms. reading cannot be satisfactorily explained. 

" Cf. supra Vol. I. p. 71, note / on 344 d-e and What 
Plato Said, p. 484, on Laches 185 a. 

« Cf. Polit. 259 B. But Plato is not concerned with the 
question of size or numbers here. 

362 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

reason and an argument such as this." For our in- 
quiry concerns the greatest of all things,*" the good 
life or the bad life." " Quite right," he replied. 
" Consider, then, if there is anything in what I say. 
For I think we must get a notion of the matter from 
these examples." " From which ? " " From indi\'idual 
wealthy private citizens in our states who possess 
many slaves. For these resemble the tyrant in being 
rulers over many, only the tjrant's numbers are 
greater.*" "Yes, they are." "You are aware, 
then, that they are unafraid and do not fear their 
slaves ? " " WTiat should they fear ? " " Nothing," 
I said ; " but do you perceive the reason why ? " 
" Yes, because the entire state is ready to defend each 
citizen." " You are right," I said. " But now sup- 
pose some god should catch up a man who has fifty 
or more slaves '^ and waft him with his wife and children 
away from the city and set him do^vn vrith his other 
possessions and his slaves in a solitude where no free- 
man could come to his rescue. What and how great 
would be his fear,* do you suppose, lest he and his 
wife and children be destroyed by the slaves ? " 
" The greatest in the world,' " he said, " if you ask 
me." " And would he not forthwith find it neces- 
sary to fawn upon some of the slaves and make them 

' Plato's imaginary illustration is one of his many antici- 
pations of later history, and suggests to an American many 
analogies. 

* C/. Critias, /r. 37, Dials ii.» p. 334, on Sparta's fear of 
her slaves. 

' For (V -KavTi cf. 579 b, Symp. 194 a e» xavri flrjs, 
Euthyd. 301 A ev s-acri iytv6fi.rjv i/iro oToptoj, Xen. Hell. 
V. 4. 29, Thucyd. vii. 55, Isoc. xiii. 20 iv xaffw . . KaKois. 
Cf. xajToTos etvai (-/iVveat^ai) Herod. ix. 109, vii. 10. 3, 
iii. 124, Lucian, Pro lapsti 1. 

363 



PLATO 

TToAAa /cat i\€v9epovv ov'^kv heofievoq, koX KoXa^ 
avTos av depaTTOvTiov dvaffjaveit] ; YloXXr] dvdyKrj, 
^(f>r), avTcp, Tj oLTToXcoXevai . Tt 8', et Kal aWovs, 
T^f S iyci), 6 deos kvkXco KarotKLaeie yetrovas 
TToXXovs avTtp, ot firq dvixoiVTO, et Tt? aAAo? ctAAou 
heaTT6t,€iv d^LOL, dAA' et ttov rtva tolovtov Aa/x- 
pavotev, rat? iaxdrais ripnopoivro Tipiiopiais ; "Ert 
B CIV, e(f>T], olfiai, fxdXXov ev Travrl KaKov etrj, kvkXco 

(j)pOVpOVfX€VOS VTTO TTaVTCOV TToXejJLlCOV. ^A/j' OVV OVK 

ev roLovTcp jxev heaixcorr)picp Se'Serai o rvpawos, 
(f>vGei cov olov BieXrjXvOafxev, tto^cov /cat Trar- 
ToBancov cf)6^cov Kal ipcJoTOJV p.earo'S' Xi'xyo) Se 

OVTL aVTCp TTjV IpV^CTjV IXOVW TcijV iv rfj TToAet OVT€ 

a7ToBr)ixrjaai e^ecmv ouSa/xocre ovre deajprjaai oaojv 
hrj /cat ot d'AAot iXevdepoL €inQvpL7]rai elai, /cara- 
SeSu/cco? 8e iv rfj oIkIo. rd TToXXd dis yvvr] ^rjj 
C (f)dovd)v /cat TOLS dAAot? TToAtVatS', idv ns e^oj 
dTTohrjjjifj /cat rt dyaddv opa; Ilai^dTraai p-ev 
OVV, €(/)r}. 

VI. OvKovv rots roiovrois /ca/cot? TrXeioi /cap- 
TTOvrai dvrjp, os dv /ca/ccD? iv iavTco TToXirevopievos, 
ov vvv Srj av ddXtcorarov eKptvas, rdv rvpawiKov, 



» For the idiom ovSkv Sebixevo^ cf. 581 e, 367 a-b, 410 b, 
405 c, Prot. 331 c, and Shorey in Class. Journ. ii, p. 171. 

* For ancient denials of the iustice of slavery cf. Newman, 
Aristot. Pol. i. pp. 140 ff., Philemon, /;•. 95 (Kock ii. p. 508) 
Khv 8ou\os ecTTi, adpKa tt}v avTrjv fx^'» <pv(rei ycip nudels SoOXos 
iyevf)dr} wotL t] 5' a5 tvxv Th atbixa KaredovKdicraTO, and Anth. 
Pal. vii. 553 with Mackail's note, p. 415. 

* Cf. p. 360, note a. For the tyrant's terrors cf. Menander, 
'Affiris {fr. 74, Kock iii. p. 24), Tacitus, Ann. vi. 6, 579 e 
and Xen. Hiero 6. 8. The tyrant sees enemies everywhere. 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

many promises and emancipate them, though nothing 
would be further from his msh <" ? And so he would 
turn out to be the flatterer of his own servants." 
" He would certainly have to," he said, " or else 
perish." " But now suppose," said I, " that god 
established round about him numerous neighbours 
who would not tolerate the claim of one man to be 
master of another,'' but would inflict the utmost 
penalties on any such person on whom they could 
lay their hands." " I think." he said, " that his 
plight would be still more desperate, encompassed 
by nothing but enemies." " And is not that the 
sort of prison-house in which the tyrant is pent, being 
of a nature such as we have described and filled with 
multitudinous and manifold terrors and appetites ? 
Yet greedy "^ and avid of spirit as he is, he only of the 
citizens may not travel abroad or view any of the 
sacred festivals '^ that other freemen yearn to see, 
but he must hve for the most part cowering in the 
recesses of his house like a woman,* envying among 
the other citizens anyone who goes abroad and sees 
any good thing." " Most certainly," he said. 

\ I. " And does not such a harvest of ills •^ measure 
the difference between the man who is merely ill- 
governed in his own soul, the man of tyrannical 
temper, whom you just now judged to be most 
miserable, and the man who, ha\ing this disposition, 

'^ C/. Xen. Hiero 1. 12 ol 5i rvpawoi ov fidXa an<j>l decjpias 
Ixovaiv oihe yap iivat avrdis d<T(pd\^s. C/. Crito 52 B hrl 
ffeuplxw. 

* Cf. Laws 781 c, Gorg. 485 d. 

' rors ToiovTois KaKoh is the measure of the excess of the 
unhappiness of the actual tyrant over that of the tjTannical 
soul in private life. Cf. my review of Jowett, A.J.P. xiii. 
p. 366. 

365 



PLATO 

' /X.T7 COS lht(x)T7)s Kara^Lco, dAA' avayKaaOfj vtto tlvos 
Tvxt]S Tvpawcvcraiy /cat iavrov wv aKparcop dXXcov 

, i7n)(eLp'qarj dpx^Lv, (Zarrcp et ris KapivovTi acofxaTi 
Kal aKparopi iavTOV fxrj 18lojt€vojv dAA' dya}vi,t,6- 
D fievos TTpos dAAa acofxara Kal fiaxofMevos dvayKo.- 
t,oiTO Sidyeiv rov ^iov. WavrdTraaiv , €(f>y], 6[xol6- 
rard re /cat dXrjdearaTa Xeyeis, Jj ^coKpares. 
OvKOVV, -^v S' iyd), 60 0iAe TXavKOJV, TravreAco? to 
TTados dOXiov, /cat tov vtto gov KptdevTOS j^aAevrco- 
rara l,rjv p^aAeTrcorepoi' en t,fj 6 rvpavvcov ; K-o/juBfj 
y\ €(f>r]. "Eiarcv dpa rfj dXrjdeia, Kav et ^?y tco 
8o/cet, o ra> ovti rvpavvos tco ovtl SovXos Tas 
E fieylcTTas OcoTreLas Kal SovXeias Kal /coAaf tcov 
TTOvrjpoTdTCOV Kal Tct? eTTidviiias ouS' orroiaTLOvv 
aTroTnyLTrXds , dXXd TrXeiaTOJV eTTtSeecrraros' /cat 
7T€vr]s TTj dXrideia ^atVerat, edv rt? oAt^v ^vx^v 

I iTTLGTrjTai Oedaaadai, Kal (j)6^ov yepucov Sid Travros' 
Toy ^t'ou, a(/)aSacrp,cdv re /cat dSut'cot' TrX-qprjs, etTrep 
T7^ TTy? TrdAeco? Siadecrei -^s dp^ei eoiKCV, eoLK€ 8e* 
580 ^ y^P> ^oX fjidXa, €(f)r]. Ovkovv Kal npos tov- 
TOLS en aTTohcoaopiev tco dvSpc Kal a to TrpoTepov 
eiTTOfiev, OTL dvdyKTj Kal etvat Kat en fxaXXov 
yiyveadai avTCo ^ TrpoTepov Sid tt^v dpx'rjv (f)6o- 
vepcp, dTTLOTCp, dSt/co), d(f)iXci), dvoalcp, Kal Trdarjs 
KaKtas TravSo/cet re /cat Tpo(f>€i, Kal i^ aTrdvTCDv 

" Cf, infra 580 c and What Plato Said, p, 506, on Gorg. 
491 D. 

■" For the analogy of soul and body cf. 591 b and on 
564 B, p. 313, note g. 

866 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

does not live out his life in private station but is 
constrained by some ill hap to become an actual 
tyrant, and while unable to control himself" attempts 
to rule over others, as if a man with a sick and in- 
continent body ^ should not live the private life but 
should be compelled to pass his days in contention 
and strife with other persons ? " " Your analogy is 
most apt and true," Socrates," he said. " Is not that 
then, dear Glaucon," said I, " a most unhappy ex- 
perience in every way ? And is not the tyrant's life 
still worse than that which was judged by you to be 
the worst ? " " Precisely so," he said. " Then it is 
the truth, though some may deny it,** that the real 
tyrant is really enslaved to cringings and servitudes 
beyond compare, a flatterer of the basest men, and 
that, so far from finding even the least satisfaction for 
his desires, he is in need of most things, and is a poor 
man in very truth, as is apparent if one knows how to 
observe a soul in its entirety ; and throughout his 
life he teems with terrors and is full of convulsions 
and pains, if in fact he resembles the condition of the 
city which he rules ; and he is like it, is he not ? " 
" Yes, indeed," he said. " And in addition, shall we 
not further attribute to him all that we spoke of 
before, and say that he must needs be, and, by reason 
of his rule, come to be still more than he was,* 
envious, faithless, unjust, friendless, impious, a vessel 
and nurse ^ of all iniquity, and so in consequence be 

" Cf. Saph. 252 c 6noi6v re Kai aXridis. 

■* Cf. on 576 c, p. 354, note 6. 

• Cf. 576 B-c. 

' wavSoKevs is a host or inn-keeper; cf. Laws 918 b. Here 
the word is used figuratively. Cf. Aristoph. Wasps 35 
0d\aiva TravdoKfvrpLa, " an all-receptive grampus" (Rogers). 

367 



PLATO 

TovTcov ixaXiara fiev avrcp SvaTVXcX etvat, erreiTa 
06 /cat TOWS' TrX'qatov avro) rotovrovs aTT€.pyat,eadai , 
Ousels' croi, €017, Tojv vovv ixovrcov avrepel. "Wt 
B oiy fioL, e(j)rjv iyco, vvv rjSr], wairep 6 Sta Travrcov 
KpLTTjs a7T0(f)atveTai, /cat crv ovtco, tls Trpcoros /cara 
T7]v crrjv Bo^av evSaLfiovla /cat rt's Sevrepos, Kal 
TOWS' aAAous' ^i'rjs Trevre ovrag Kplve, ^aaiXiKov, 

TlpLOKpaTLKOV, oXiyapXI-KOV , SrjflOKpaTLKOV, TVpav- 

VLKOV. 'AAAa paSta, ^.^rj, rj Kpiais. Kaddrrep yap 
elarjXdov, eycoye atavep x^povs Kpivoi dperfj /cat 
KaKLo. /cat evSaifjiovLa Kal rep ivavTLco. Mto^coo'cij- 
fieda ovv KTjpvKa, rjv 8' iyco, ^ avros dv€i7ra>, oti 

O ApLGTCOVOS vlos TOV apiCTTOV T€ /Cat St/CatOTttTOV 

C ev8aip,ov€(JTaTov CKpcve, tovtov 8' eii^ai top 
^aaiXiKiOTarov Kal ^aaiXevovra avrov, top 8e 
KaKiGTOv re Kal dSiKcoTarov dOXtcorarov, tovtov 
he av Tvyxdveiv ovTa, os dv TvpawiKcoTaTog cov 
iavTov TC o Tt fidXiaTa Tvpavvj] Kal ttjs rroXecusi 
'Aveipijadco aoL, €(f)rj. *H ovv Trpoaavayopevcj, 
etTTOv, idv TC Xavddvwai tolovtoi 6vt€s idv tc pt,r] 

" On the wretched lot of the tj^rant cf. Xen. Hiero passim, 
e.g. 4. 11, 6. 4, 8, 15. The Hiero is Xenophon's 
rendering of the Socratico - Platonic conception of the 
unhappy tyrant. Cf. 1. 2-3. See too Gerhard Heintzeler, 
Bas Bild des Tyrannen bei Platon, esp. pp. 43 ff. and 76 f. ; 
Cic. De amicit. 15, Isoc. Nic. 4-5, Peace 112, Hel. 
32 fF. But in Euag. 40 Isocrates says all men would admit 
that tyranny " is the greatest and noblest and most coveted 
of all good things, both human and divine." In Epist. 6. 1 1 if. 
he agrees with Plato that the life of a private citizen is better 
than the tyrant's. But in 2. 4 he treats this as a thesis which 
many maintain. Cf. further Gorg. 473 e, Ale. I. 135 b, 
Phaedr. 248 e, Symp. 182 c, Eurip. Io7i 621 ff., Stippl. 429 if., 
Medea 119 ff., I. A. 449-450, Plerodotus iii. 80, Soph. Ajax 
1350 "not easy for a tyrant to be pious"; also Dio Chrys. 

S68 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

himself most unhappy ° and make all about him so ? " 

" No man of sense will gainsay that," he said. 
" Come then," said I, " now at last, even as the judge 
of last instance* pronounces, so do you declare who in 
your opinion is first in happiness and who second, and 
similarly judge the others, all five in succession, the 
royal, the timocratic, the obgarchic, the democratic, 
and the tyrannical man." " Nay," he said, " the 
decision is easy. For as if they were choruses I judge 
them in the order of their entrance, and so rank them 
in respect of virtue and \ice, happiness and its con- 
trary." " Shall we hire a herald,*^ then," said I, " or 
shall I mvself make proclamation that the son of 
Ariston pronounced the best man** and the most 
righteous to be the happiest,* and that he is the one 
who is the most kingly and a king over himself ; ^ and 
declared that the most evil and most unjust is the 
most mihappy, who again is the man who, having 
the most of the tyrannical temper in himself, becomes 
most of a tyrant over himself and over the state ? " 
" Let it have been so proclaimed by you," he said. 
" Shall I add the clause ' alike whether their character 

Or. iii. 58 f.. Anon. Iambi, fr. 7. 12, Diels ii.» p. 333, 
J. A. K. Thomson, Greek and Barbarian, pp. Ill ff., 
Diimmler, Prolegomena, p. 31, Baudrillart, /. Bodin et son 
temps, pp. 292-293 " Bodin semble . . . se souvenir de 
Platen netrissant le tyran. ..." 
' Adam has an exhaustive technical note on this. 

• Cf. Phihb. 66 A VTo re d-/yi\(j3v rf/xirwy, etc., Eurip. 
Ale. 737 Ki)pvKwv LTo. Grote and other liberals are offended 
by the intensity of Plato's moral conviction. See What 
Plato Said, p. S6i, Laws 662-663, Unity of Plato's Thought, 
p. 25. 

• Plato puns on the name Ariston. For other such puns 
cf. Gorg. 463 e, 481 d, 513 b. Rep. 600 b, 614 b, Symp. 
174 B. 185 c, 198 c. 

• Cf. Laws 664 b-c. ' Cf. on 579 c, p. 367, note a. 
VOL. n 2 B 369 



PLATO 

TTauras avOptovovg re Kal deovs; II poaavayopeve , 

VII. Efev h-q, eiTTOv avrr) jxev rjfjuv rj avrdSeifi? 

D jxia av etr]- hevripav 8e tSe^ riqvhe, edv tl So^tj 
etvai. Tis" avTT] ; 'ETretS?^, cvairep ttoXls, ■^v 8' 
eyo), hirip-qTai Kara rpia elhrj, ovrco /cat il^vx^ 
€vos eKaarov rpixfj, [to Aoyicrrt/cor]* Several, (hs 
efJiOL SoKel, Kal irepav dnoSeL^LV. TiVa ravrrjv; 
Tt^j'Sc. rpiwv ovrcov rpirral kol rjSoval fjiOL 0at- 
vovrai, evos eKaarov p,la tSia* eTndvfjiLaL re oja- 
avro)s Kal dpxcti. Ilcos Xeyeis; ^4*1 • '^^ H'^^' 
^a/xeV, ■^v (S fxavdavei dvdpojnos, ro he co dvjxovrai, 
TO 8e rpirov hid TToXveiSiav evl ovk eaxofxev ovo- 

E fiari TTpocrenrelv tSi'o) avrov, dXXd o jxeyiarov Kal 
L(j)(vporarov ei^ev iv avrco, rovrco eTrcovofidaafiev 
eTTidvpnqriKov yap avro KeKXiqKapLev 8ia G<f>ohp6- 
TTjra rcbv irepl rrjv i8o)hrjv e-nidvpiiihv Kal ttoolv 
Kal d(f)pohiaLa Kal oaa dXXa rovrois dKoXovda, Kal 
(fnXoxprip-dTov hrj, on 8ta ;\;p7jjU,aTa»i' fidXiara 
581 aTToreXovvrat at roiavrai eTTi^u/xtat. Kat opOcjs 
y', e(f)r]. ^A/a' ovv Kal r'qv rjSovrjv avrov Kal 
^iXiav el 0ai/xev elvai, rov KepSovs, fidXiar^ dv els 

1 5^ Ide Adam : Bel 5^ AFDM : Se Sei mss. recc. 

* rb XoyicTTiKbv A, \oyi(TTiKbu A^FDM, 'koyicrriKby iiridv/xt}- 
TiKbv 6vfiiKbv Par. 1642 : omitted by more recent mss. 

" Cf. supra 367 e, 427 d, 445 a, infra 612 B. 

* Cf. supra 435 b-c ff. 

' Practically all editors reject rb XoyurriKbv. But Apelt, 
p. 525, insists that d^^erai cannot be used without a subject 
on the analogy of 453 d ?oik€v, 497 c 5ri\waei and dei^ei, 
hence we must retain XoyLariKbv, in the sense of " ability to 
reckon," and he compares Charm. 174 b and the double 
sense of XoyiariKbv in Rep. 525 b, 587 d, 602 e. He says it 
is a mild mathematical joke, like Polit. 257 a. 
870 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

is known to all men and gods or is not known ' « ? " 
" Add that to the proclamation," he said. 

VII. " Very good," said I ; " this, then, would 
be one of our proofs, but examine this second one 
and see if there is anything in it." " What is it ? " 
" Since," said I, " corresponding to the three types 
in the city, the soul also is tripartite,* it will admit," 
I think, of another demonstration also." " What 
is that ? " " The following : The three parts have 
also, it appears to me, three kinds of pleasure, one 
peculiar to each, and similarly three appetites and 
controls." " What do you mean ? " he said. " One 
part, we say, is that ^\^th which a man learns, one 
is that with which he feels anger. But the third 
part, owing to its manifold forms,'* we could not 
easily designate by any one distinctive name,* but 
gave it the name of its chief and strongest element ; 
for we called it the appetitive part ^ because of the 
intensity of its appetites concerned with food and 
drink and love and their accompaniments, and hke- 
wise the money-loving part,^ because money is the 
chief instrument for the gratification of such desires." 
" And rightly," he said. " And if we should also say 
that its pleasure and its love were for gain or profit, 

<» Cf. Phileb. 26 c TO . . . ttX^^os. C/. Friedlander, Platon, 
ii. p. 492, n. 2. 

* Here again the concept is implied {cf. supra on 564 b, 
p. 313, note e and Introd. pp. x-xi). Cf. Parrnen. 132 c, 
135 B, Phileb. 16 d, 18 c-d, 23 e, 25 c, Aristot. Eth. Nic. 
1 130 b 2 evi ovofW-Ti wepiXapeiv, and et's iv Ke4>d.\aLov direpeidolfieda, 
581 A, Schleiermacher's interpretation of which, "so wiirden 
wir uns in der Erklarung doch auf ein Hauptstiick stiitzen," 
approved by Stallbaum, misses the point. For the point 
that there is no one name for it cf. What Plato Said, p. 596, 
on Soph. 267 d. 

' Vol. I. 439 D. » Cf. Vol. I. p. 380, note b. 

371 



PLATO 

€V KctpaXaiov aTrepeihoi^eda rm Xoyco, ojare Ti 
rjixlv avTois hrjXovv, ottotc tovto ttjs ^^x'^s to 
[xepos XeyoipLev, Kal KaXovvres avro (f>LXoxprjyLCLrov 
/cat (f)LXoK€phes opdojs av KaXolp.ev ; 'E/i,ot yovv 
SoK€L, eV*T7- Ti Se; ro dvpioeLSes ou Trpos ro 
Kpareiv pievToi (jyapckv Kal VLKav /cat euSo/ct/x.ety 

B aet oXov ibpfxrjadai; Kat pudXa. Ei ovv (f)iX6vcKOV 
avTO Kat (f)LX6Tipiov TTpoaayopevoipiev , rj ipipLeXoJs 
av k^oi; 'KpipLeXearara picv o5v. 'AAAd pirjv <L 
ye piavddvopbev, Travrl S^Aor otl irpos ro etSeVat ttiv 
dXrjdeiav omrj e^^L Trdv del rerarai, Kal xP''^f^dTCOV 
Te Kat 86^r]£ riKiara tovtojv tovtco pueXei. IloAu 
ye. OtAojua^e? hr] Kal <^LX6ao(f)OV KaXovvres avro 
Kara, rpoirov av /caAot/xev; llcog yap ov; Ovkovv, 

C rjv 8' eyco, Kal apx^t ev rats ifjvxous rwv pLev rovro, 
Tcbv Se ro erepov eKelvcov, orrorepov av rvxj); Ov- 
rcos, e^T?. Ata ravra Srj Kal dvdpdjTroiv Xiyopbev 
ra TTpcbra rpirra yevq etvai, (f)iX6ao(f)OV , ^lXovlkov, 
(f>iXoKepSes; Ko/itSry ye. Kat rjSovcov Srj rpia 
e'Lh-q, VTTOKeipLevov^ ev eKaarco rovrcov ; Wdvv ye. 

^ VTTOKdfievov AFD, viroKeifieva A^M defended by Adam. 



" Since there is no one specific name for the manifold 
forms of this part (580 d-e), a makeshift term is to be used 
for convenience' sake. See also p. 371, note e. 

* Or " is bent on," rerarat. Cf. 499 a ^rjTeiv . . . rb dXrides 
axjvreratiivws, Symp. 222 a and Bury ad loc, Symp. 186 b iirl 
irdv 6 debs reivei. For the thought cf. also Phileb. 58 d. 

* Cf. Phaedo 67 b toi>s 6p6Qis (piXo/xadeh. 
^ Cf. 338 D, 342 c. 

' Cf. my review of Jowett in A.J.P. xiii. p. 366, which 
Adam quotes and follows and Jowett and Campbell {Republic) 
adopt. For the three types of men cf. also Phaedo 68 c, 82 c. 
Stewart, Aristot. Eth. Nic. p. 60 (1095 b 17), says, "The 

372 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

should we not thus best bring it together under one 
head " in our discourse so as to understand each other 
when we speak of this part of the soul, and justify 
our calling it the money-loving andgain-lo\'ing part ? " 
" I, at any rate, think so," he said. " And, again, 
of the high-spirited element, do we not say that it 
is wholly set on predominance and victory and good 
repute?" "Yes, indeed." "And might we not 
appropriately designate it as the ambitious part and 
that which is covetous of honour ? " " Most appro- 
priately." " But surely it is obvious to everyone that 
all the endeavour of the part by which we learn is ever 
towards * knowledge of the truth of things, and that it 
least of the three is concerned for wealth and re- 
putation." " Much the least." " Lover of learning ' 
and lover of wisdom would be suitable designations 
for that." " Quite so," he said. " Is it not also 
true," I said, " that the ruling principle ^ of men's 
souls is in some cases this faculty and in others one 
of the other two, as it may happen ? " " That is 
so," he said. " And that is why we say that the 
primary classes* of men also are three, the philosopher 
or lover of wisdom, the lover of victorv' and the lover 
of gain." " Precisely so." " And also that there are 
tljree forms of pleasure, corresponding respectively 

three lives mentioned by Aristotle here answer to the three 
classes of men distinguished by Plato {Rep. 581). . . . 
Michelet and Grant point out that this threefold division 
occurs in a metaphor attributed to Pvthagoras bv Heracleides 
Ponticus (apiid Cic. Tusc. v. 3). .". ." C/. Aristot. Eth. 
Nic. 1097 a-b (i. 5. 1), also Diog. L. vii, 130 on Stoics, 
Plutarch, De liber, educ. x. (8 a), Renan, Avenir de la 
science, Y>. S. Isoc. Antid. 217 characteristically recognizes 
only the three motives, pleasure, gain, and honour. For the 
entire argument cf. Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1176 a 31, 1177 a 10, 
and supra, Introd. pp. liv-lv. 

373 



PLATO 

Olad' ovv, rjv 8' iyco, on el deXois rpels roiov- 
Tovs avdpcoTTOVs iv fjcepei cKaarov dvepcoTav, ris 
rovTOJV T(x)v ^LOiv rjSicrTOs, rov iavrov cKaaros 
pLakiara ey/ccu/xiacreTat; o ye^ ■^(p'qiJiarLarLKos jrpos 

D TO KepSaiveLV rrjv rov rt/xacr^at rjSovrjv rj rr]v tov 
ixavddveiv ovBevos d^iav (f>-qa€i elvai, el pbi] et rt, 
avTcJL)v dpyvpLov TTOcet; 'AXrjOrj, ec/irj. Ti Be 6 
^iXoTipLog ; rjv S' eyo)' ov ttjv jxev oltto tcov XPV~ 
fidrcov TjBovr^v (fyoprLK-^v Tiva rjyelrai, /cat a^ Tqv 
(XTTO TOV fiavOdveiv, 6 ti fxr] j^dd-qixa TLpirjV (f)epeL, 
KaTTVOv /cat (f>XvapLav ; Ovtcos, €.(f)r], e)(ei. Tov Se 
(f)iX6ao(f)ov , rjv 8' eyw, tl old>p,eda Tag aAAa? 

E r]Bovds vopLit,eLV rrpos ttjv tov etSeVat TdXrjdeg otttj 
ex^i /cat ev tco tolovtw tlvI del etvai jxavddvovTa; 
TTJs rjSovrjs^ ov rrdvv rroppco, /cat KaXetv to) ovtl 

^ 6 76 Hermann, followed by Adam, S re mss. 
* T^j T)5ovris punctis notata in A, secl. Baiter: . . . fiavOdvovra 
T^s T/Soc^s ; o6 . . . Adam. 

" For fV fJ-epei cf. 468 b, 520 c and d, 577 c, 615 a, Gorg. 
496 B, La^cs 876 b, 943 a, 947 c, Polit. 265 a; contrasted 
with ef T(^ M^pf'j Meno 92 e, Gorg. 462 a, 474 a. 

The two expressions, similar in appearance, illustrate how 
a slight change alters an idiom. So e.g. Kaivbv ovdev (Gorg. 
448 a) has nothing to do with the idiom ovBev Kaivhv (Phaedo 
100 b) ; TOV \6yov eVe/va {Rep. 612 c) is different from \670i' 
iveKa {Theast. 191 c — dicis cmisa); iravra rdyadd (Latcs 631 b) 
has no connexion with the idiomatic iravT dyadd {Rep. 471 c, 
cf. supra ad loc.) ; nor Pindar's 7r6XX' dvdi rd 5' aC Kdru {01. 
xii. 6) with dvw Kdru as used in Phaedo 96 b, Gorg. 481 d, 
etc. Cf. also fv rix^V Pifot. 319 c with iv rrj rix^'V 317 c, 
v(^ ^X«"' R^P- 490 A with iv vi^ ^x^'-" 344 d, etc., tov Travros 
T)fidpTr)K€v Phaedr. 235 e with ttclvtos d/xaprdveiv 237 c. The 
same is true of words — to confuse KaWlxopos with KaWixoipos 
would be unfortunate; and the medieval debates about 
ofioovaia and ofiotovcria were perhaps not quite as ridiculous 
as they are generall)' considered. 
374 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

to each?" "By all means." " Are you aware, then," 
said I, " that if you should choose to ask men of these 
three classes, each in turn," which is the most pleasur- 
able of these lives, each will chiefly commend his 
o^\^l^ ? The financier will afiirm that in comparison 
with profit the pleasures of honour or of learning are 
of no value except in so far as they produce money." 
" True," he said. " And what of the lover of 
honour " ? " said I ; " does he not regard the pleasure 
that comes from money as vulgar "* and low, and again 
that of learning, save in so far as the knowledge 
confers honour, mere fume * and moonshine ? " " It is 
so," he said. " And what," said I, " are we to sup- 
pose the philosopher thinks of the other pleasures 
compared with the deUght of knowing the truth ^ and 
the reality, and being always occupied with that 
while he learns ? Will he not think them far re- 
moved from true pleasure," and call'' them Hterally* 

* Cf. Laws 658 on judging different kinds of literature. 

* Cf. p. 255, note /, on 549 a. Xenophon is the typical 
tfuXdTLfjLos. In ^fem. iii. 3. 13 he saj's that the Athenians " ex- 
cel all others ... in love of honour, which is the strongest 
incentive to deeds of honour and renown " (Marchant, Loeb 
tr.). Cf. Epist. 320 a, Symp. 178 d, and also Xen. Cyrop. 
i. 9. 1, Mem. iii. i. 10. 

' Cf. Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1095 b 16, and supra on 528 e. 

* Cf. Blaydes on Aristoph. Clouds 320, and Turgeniev's 
novel. Smoke. ' Cf. Phileb. 58 c on dialectic. 

' Cf. 598 B, Epist. iii. 315 c. Marc. Aurel. viii. 1 irhppuy 
4K\oao<f)iai. Hermann's text or something like it is the only 
idiomatic one, and ttjs rjSoviji ov wdw iroppiii must express the 
philosopher's opinion of the pleasurableness of the lower 
pleasures as compared with the higher. Cf. A.J.P. xiii. 
p. 366. 

* For the infinitive cf. 492 c kou <p-qffeiy, 530 b Kal l^ip-eiy. 

< T(|5 6vTi marks the etymological use of dvayKoiau Cf. on 
511 B and 551 e, p. 266, note a. 

375 



PLATO 

avayKalas, (hs ovhev rwv aXXcov Seo/xevov, el [xrj 
dvdyKTj -^v; Kv, €(f)r], Set elhevai. 

VIII. "Ore hrj ovv, elTTOV, afi</)ia^rjrovvrai eKa- 
arov Tov eiSovs at rjSoval /cat avros 6 ^los, firj on 
TTpog TO kolXXlov /cat atcr)^iov /^-rjv fi'qSe to ^elpov 
/cat dfieivov, dXXd Trpog avTO to tJSlov /cat dXv- 
582 TTOTepov, 7760? O-I^ etSeiyuer, rt? avTOJv dXr]6eaTaTa 
At'yet; Ov irdvv, e4>rj, eycoye e^oi eliTeiv. 'AAA' 
O/Se CT/coTret. rtvi XPV Kpiveadai, to, fxeXXovTa 
KaXws Kpid-^aeadat; dp ovk €jXTT€ipia t€ /cat 
(f>poviqa€L /cat Xoytp; r] tovtcov e;\;ot aV tls ^iXTiov 
KpLTiqpiov; Kat tto)? dv; e<j)ri. 2/co77et hrj- TpidJv 
OVTOJV tG)v dvhpdjv tls epLTreipoTaTos Traacov (Lv 
eiTTOfiev rjSovdJv; iroTepov 6 (f}iXoKep8T]g, fxavddvcov 
avTTjv TTjv dXy^deiav olov ioTiv, ipLTreipoTepog So/cet 

B cot eiv'at Trjg dno tov etSeVai rjSovrjs, ^ 6 (f)iX6- 
crocf>os TTJs drro tov KepSaiveiv; IIoAu, ^'f>''^, Sta- 
(f)cp€i. Tip fiev yap dvdyKt] yeveadai tojv CTepcov 
€K naiSos dp^apuivcp' to) 8e cfytXoKepdel, ottj) ttc- 
^u/ce Ta ovTa pavOdvovTi, ttjs rjSovrjg TavTTjg, wg 
yXvKeld ioTiv, ovk dvdyKr] yeveodai ouS' ipLTreLpo) 
yiyveadai, pioXXov Se /cat TrpoOvpLovpLevo) ov pdStov. 
UoXv dpa, rjv S' eyto, Sta^epet tov ye <j)iXoKep- 
hovg 6 ^iX6ao(j)og ifXTreipia dix^oTepoiv tcov -^Sovcov. 

C rioAi) fievTOL. Tt 8e TOV ^cXoTLfiov ; dpa /xaXXov 

<• Cf. 558 D f. 

* This anticipates Latvs 663 a, 733 a-b, 734 a-b. 

* i.e. what is the criterion ? Cf. 582 d Si' ov, Sext. Empir. 
Bekker, p. 60 {Pyrrh. Hypotyp. n. 13-14) and p. 197 {Adv. 
Math. vii. 35). Cf. Diog. L. Prologue 21, and Laches 
1 84 E. For the idea that the better soul is the better judge 
cf. also Lav^s 663 c, Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1176 a 16-19. 

" <* Cf. 582 D, On Virtue 373 d, Xen. Mem. iii. 3. 11. 

376 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

the pleasures of necessity," since he would have no 
use for them if necessity were not laid upon him ? " 
" We may be sure of that," he said. 

VIII. " Since, then, there is contention between 
the several types of pleasure and the lives themselves, 
not merely as to which is the more honourable or the 
more base, or the worse or the better, but which is 
actually the more pleasurable * or free from pain, how 
could we determine which of them speaks most 
truly ? " " In faith, I cannot tell," he said. " Well, 
consider it thus : By what are things to be judged, if 
they are to be judged'' rightly? Is it not by experi- 
ence, intelligence and discussion ^ ? Or could anyone 
name a better criterion than these ? " " How could 
he?" he said. "Observe, then. Of our three types 
of men, which has had the most experience of all 
the pleasures we mentioned ? Do you think that the 
lover of gain by study of the very nature of truth has 
more experience of the pleasure that knowledge 
yields than the philosopher has of that which results 
from gain ? " " There is a vast difference," he said ; 
" for the one, the philosopher, must needs taste of 
the other two kinds of pleasure from childhood ; but 
the lover of gain is not only under no necessity of 
tasting or experiencing the sweetness of the pleasure 
of learning the true natures of things,* but he cannot 
easily do so even if he desires and is eager for it." 
" The lover of wisdom, then," said I, " far surpasses 
the lover of gain in experience of both kinds of 
pleasure." " Yes, far." " And how does he com- 
pare vriih the lover of honour ? Is he more un- 

' The force of ov extends through the sentence. C'f. Class. 
Phil. vi. (1911) p. 218, and mv note on Tim. 77 b in A.J.P. x. 
p. 74. C'f. II. V. 408, xxii. 283, Pindar. Nem. iii. 15, Hymn 
Dem. 157. 

377 



PLATO 

drreipos icrrt. ttjs oltto tov rifidadai rjSovijs •^ e/cei- 
vos ry^s OLTTO tov ^poveZv; 'AAAa TtjLt-17 /ief, 6^77, 
idwep e^ep'ydt,covrai cttI o '^KaoTog &pp,rjKe, 
Trdatv avTOis eTrerai- Kal yap 6 nXovaios vtto 
TToXXaJv TL/jidraL Kal 6 dvSpelos Kal 6 ao(j>6s, uiOTe 
dno ye tov Tipbdadai, olov eVrt, TrdvTes ttjs rjSovfjs 
€fi7T€tpoi' TTJg Se TOV ovTos dcas, oiav TjSovrjv ex^i, 
dSvvaTOV aAAo) yeyevadai TrXrjv t<2> ^iXo(j6(f>cp . 
D 'EjLtTretpt'a? jJi^v dpa, elTVov, eVe/ca /caAAio-ra tcDv' 
dvSpcov Kpivei oStos. HoXv ye. Kai fxrjv fX€Td 
ye (f)povqGecos p-ovos efiTreipos yeyovcbs ecrrai. Tt 
[Mi^v; 'AAAa p.r]v Kal St' ov ye Set dpydvov Kpive- 
adai, ov TOV cfuXoKepSovg tovto opyavov ov8e tov 
(fnXoTLfXOV , dXXa TOV (jiiXoao^ov. To ttoXov; Ata 
Xoyojv TTov e<^ap.ev Setv Kpiveadai. rj ydp; Nat. 
Aoyot Se TOVTov jLtaAtcrra opyavov. Ylojg 8' ov; 
OvKovv el p.ev ttXovto) Kal KepSei dpioTa eKpiveTo 
E Tct Kpiv6p,eva, d eTTT^vet, 6 (f)LXoK€pSr]g Kal eipeyev, 
dvdyKTj dv rjv raura dXrjOeaTaTa elvai. UoXXij ye. 
Et Se Tififj re Kal vlkt) Kal dvSpeca, dp' ovx d 
6 (fyiXoTLfxos T€ Kal 6 (fyiXovLKos ; ArjXov. 'EiTreiSr] 
8* e/x77etpta /cat (f)pov'qaeL Kal Xoyco; 'Amy/cTj, 
ecjiT], a 6 cf)iX6ao(f)6s re /cat o ^lAoAoyos' eTratt'ei, 
583 dXr]deaTaTa elvai. Tpiojv dp' ovcrchv twv -^SovaJv 
"q TOVTOV TOV pepovs Trjs ^^XV^> 4* p-o.vddvop.ev, 
'qhiaTTT) dv etr], Kal ev cp rjp,cijv tovto dpx^i, 6 

" For the periphrasis yeyouihs iarai cf. Charm. 174 d 
dTToXeXoiTTOs iarai. 
* Cf. 508 B, 518 c, 527 d. 
« Cf. on 582 A, p. 376, note d. 

378 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

acquainted with the pleasure of being honoured than 
that other with that which conies from knowledge ? " 
" Nay, honour," he said, " if they achieve their 
several objects, attends them all; for the rich man is 
honoured by many and the brave man and the wise, 
so that all are acquainted with the kind of pleasure 
that honoiu- brings ; but it is impossible for anyone 
except the lover of wisdom to have savoured the 
deUght that the .contemplation of true being and 
reality brings." " Then," said I, " so far as experi- 
ence goes, he is the best judge of the three." " By 
far." " And again, he is the only one whose experi- 
ence will have been accompanied" by intelligence." 
" Surely." " And yet again, that which is the instru- 
ment, or opyavov, of judgement ^ is the instrument, not 
of the lover of gain or of the lover of honour, but of 
the lover of wisdom." " What is that ? " "It was 
by means of words and discussion "^ that we said the 
judgement must be reached ; was it not ? " " Yes." 
" And they are the instrument mainly of the philo- 
sopher." " Of course." " Now if wealth and profit 
were the best criteria by which things are judged, 
the things praised and censured by the lover of gain 
would necessarily be truest and most real." " Quite 
necessarily^." " And if honour, victor)- and courage, 
would it not be the things praised by the lover of 
honour and victory ? " " Obviously." " But since 
the tests are experience and wisdom and discussion, 
what follows ? " " Of necessity," he said, " that the 
things approved by the lover of vvisdom and discussion 
are most vahd and true." " There being, then, three 
kinds of pleasure, the pleasure of that part of the soul 
whereby we learn is the sweetest, and the hfe of the 
man in whom that part dominates is the most pleasur- 

379 



PLATO 

TOVTOV jSio? T^'StCTTO?; Hcos S' ov /xe'AAet; €(1)7]' 
Kvpiog yovv eTraLverrjs a)V eTraivet rov iavrov ^iov 
6 (f>p6vLiJLOS . TCva Se Sevrepov, elrrov, ^iov Kol 
TLva hevrepav -q^ovriv (f)rjaLV 6 KpLrrjg elvai; ArjXov 
OTi rrjv Tov 7ToXep,LKOv re Kal <f)i.XoTLpLov iyyvTepco 
yap avTov iarlv rj rj rov ;(;p7j/LtaTiCTTOU. 'Yarar-qv 
brj TTjV TOV (f}LXoK€p8ovs, CVS eoLKev. Ti fJLirjv; i^ 
8' OS. 
B IX. Tavra jxev tolvvv ovtoj Su" icjie^ijs av clt] 
Kal Sis v€VLKrjK(hs 6 St/catos" rov dSiKOV to 8e 

TpLTOV ^OXvpiTTLKOiS TO) GCOTrjpC T€ Kal TO) 'OAu/A- 

TTLO) Alt', adpei OTL ouSe 7TavaXrjdr]s eoTiv r] tGjv 
dXXcov riSovrj rrXrjv ttjs tov <f)povLpov ovhe. Kadapd, 
dAA' eaKiaypa^rjpLCvrj tls, (1>S iyoj Sokw jxot tcov 
ao<f)CL)v TLVOS dKrjKoivat. Kanoi tovt dv eirj peyi- 
OTOV re /cat KvpicoTaTov tcov TTTcofxaTcov. YloXv 
yc dXXd TTCos XeyeLs; *^Q8', elrrov, i^evprjooi, 
C aov dTTOKpLvopLevov t,r]Tdjv a/xa. 'Ejoajra S-q, e(f>rj. 
Aeye S-q, rjv 8' iyd)' ovk evavTLOV (f>apiev Xvtttjv 
rjSovfj; Kat p.dXa. Ovkovv Kal to fi-qTe ;!^ac/5etp' 
IXTf]T€ XvTTeladai elvai tl; Eti^ai /xeWot. Me- 

" The third cup of wine was always dedicated to Zeus the 
Saviour, and rpiros aiorrjp became proverbial. Cf. Charm. 
167 A, Phileh. 66 d. Laws 692 a, 960 c, Eplst. vii. 334 d, 
340 A. Cf. Hesychius s.v. Tpiros KpaTi)p. Brochard, La 
Morale de Platon, missing the point, says, " Voici enfin un 
troisieme argument qui parait k Platon le plus decisif 
puisqu'il I'appelle une victoire vraiment olympique." For 
the idea of a contest cf. Phileb. passim. 

* Cf. Phileb. 36 c, 44 d iidoval dXr/^ets. For the unreality 
of the lower pleasures cf. Phileb. 36 a ff. and esp. 44 c-d. 
Unity of Plato's Thought, pp. 23-25, What Plato Said, 
pp. 322-323 and 609-610, supra Introd. pp. Ivi-lix, Rodier, 
Remarques sur le Philebe, p. 381. 

" Cf. Phileb. 52 c Kadapas ij^ovds, and 53 C KaOapa. Xi^Trijs. 

380 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

able." " How could it be other^^^se ? " he said. 
" At any rate the man of intelligence speaks %vith 
authority when he commends his own life." " And 
to what life and to what pleasure," I said, " does the 
judge assign the second place ? " " Ob\'iously to 
that of the warrior and honour-loving type, for it is 
nearer to the first than is the life of the money- 
maker." " And so the last place belongs to the lover 
of gain, as it seems." " Surely," said he. 

IX. " That, then, would be two points in succession 
and two \-ictories for the just man over the unjust. 
And now for the third in the Olympian fashion to the 
saviour " and to Olympian Zeus — observe that other 
pleasure than that of the intelligence is not altogether 
even real ^ or pure,*' but is a kind of scene-painting,"^ as 
I seem to have heard from some wise man " ; and yet ^ 
this would be the greatest and most decisive over- 
throw. s " " Much the greatest. But what do you 
mean ? " "I shall discover it," I said, " if you will 
answer my questions while I seek." " Ask, then," 
he said. " Tell me, then," said I, " do we not say that 
pain is the opposite of pleasure ? " " We certainly 
do," " And is there not such a thing as a neutral 
state*?" "There is." "Is it not intermediate be- 

' Cf. Laics 663 c, Phaedo 69 b, supra 365 c, 523 b, 602 d, 
586 B, Wilamowitz, Platon, ii. p. 266. 

• One of Plato's evasions. Cf. What Plato Said, p. 513, on 
Metio 81 A, Phileh. 44 b. Wilamowitz, Platon, ii. p. 266 misses 
the point and says that by the wise man Plato means himself. 

' For this rhetorical kolItol cf. 360 c, 376 b, 433 b, 440 d, 
Gorg. 452 e. Laics 663 e, 690 c. 
» Cf. Phileb. -2-2 E, Aesch. Prom. 919, Soph. Antig. 1046. 

* If any inference could be drawn from the fact that in 
the Philebus 42 d ff. and 32 e the realitj' of the neutral 
state has to be proved, it would be that the Philebus is 
earlier, which it is not. 

S81 



PLATO 

ra^v rovTOLv afji(f)olv iv fxecrw ov 'qavx^o.v riva 
irepi ravTa TTJg ijjv)(7js; ^ ov)( ovtojs avro Ae'yet?; 
OvTws, -q 8' OS. ^Ap' ov fjiV7)fiov€V€i,?, Tjv 8' iyco, 
Tovs Twv Kaixvovrojv Xoyovs, ovs Xeyovatv orav 
KayLVCoaiv ; Yioiovs; 'Q.s ovhev dpa icrrlv tJ^lov 
D Tov vyiaiveiv, dAAo. a^ds eXeX-qdei, Trplv KafxveLV, 
rj^LGTOv ov. Mefjivrjuai, e^T]. Ovkovv Kal tcov 
TTepioihwia rivl exop-ivoiv a/couets' Xeyovroiv, (hs 
ovhev Tjhiov TOV Txavcraadai, oSwcofxevov ; 'A/couco. 
Kai iv dXXoLS ye, olpuat, ttoXXoZs tolovtols aladdvei 
ytyvojxevovs tovs dvdpcoTTOvs, iv of?, OTav Xvttcjv- 
rai, TO pbT] Xv7T€La6ai Kal ttjv rjavx^ct-v tov toiov- 
Tov iyKcop,Ldt,ovaiv d)s 'qSiaTov, ov to y^cLipeLV. 
TovTO ydp, €(f)r], t6t€ rjSv taa>s Kal dya7T7]Tov 
E yiyv€Tai, rjavxia. Kal OTav iravcr-qTai dpa, eiTTOv, 
XOiipoiv TLS, 7) TTJs rjSovqs 'qcrvx^o- Xvvrjpov ecrrat. 
"laojs, €(f)Tr]. "0 fxeTa^v dpa vvv 8rj djJLcfiOTepojv 
€(f)aiJiev etvai, ttjv rjav^Lav, tovto ttotc a/x^orepa 
earatj Xvttt] re Kal tJSov't^. "Eoi/cev. '^H /cat 
hvvaTOV TO jxrjSiTepa ov diJL<f)6T€pa yiyveadai; Ov 
fioL SoKel. Kat fjLTjv TO ye rjBv iv tpvyj] ytyvo/xe- 
vov Kal TO XvTTTjpov KivTjaLS Tis d/x^oTepaj icTTOV 
584 r] ov; Nat. To Se /XT^re Xvirrfpov fx-^Te tjSv ov)(l 
rjavxi-O- fxevTOL Kal iv p,eaoj tovtolv i(f>dvq dprt; 
'Ei(f)dvr) yap. Ylcbs ovv 6p9cos eon to /xt) dXyelv 
TjSv r)yeL(jdai rj to pirj x^ipeiv dvtapov; Ovhap,d)s. 
OvK eoTLV dpa tovto, aXXd ^aiWrai, -qv 8' eycu. 



" For iv fiiffu} cf. Phileb. 35 e. 

» Cf. perhaps Phileb. 45 b, Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1095 a 24, 
and Heracleit./r. Ill, Diels i.' p. 99 vovaoi vyidrjv iirolrjcrev TjdO. 

' Cf. Phileb. 43 e, Hipp. Maj. 300 b f. 
382 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

tween them, and in the mean," being a kind of quietude 
of the soul in these respects ? Or is not that your 
notion of it?" " It is that," said he. " Do you not 
recall the things men say in sickness ? " " \Miat 
sort of things ? " " ^^^ly, that after all there is 
nothingsweeterthan to be well,* though they were not 
aware that it is the highest pleasure before they were 
iU." " I remember," he said. " And do you not 
hear men afflicted with severe pain sapng that there 
is no greater pleasure than the cessation of this 
suffering?" "I do." "And you perceive, I pre- 
smne, many similar conditions in which men while 
suffering pain praise freedom from pain and rehef 
from that as the highest pleasure, and not positive 
delight." " Yes," he said, " for this in such cases is 
perhaps what is felt as pleasurable and acceptable — 
peace." " And so," I said, " when a man's dehght 
comes to an end, the cessation of pleasure will be 
painful." " It may be so," he said. " What, then, we 
just now described as the intermediate state between 
the two — this quietude — ^^•ill sometimes be both pain 
and pleasure." "It seems so." " Is it really possible 
for that which is neither to become both*'?" "I 
think not." " And further, both pleasure and pain 
arising inthesoul are a kind of motion,** are they not ?" 
" Yes." " And did we not just now see that to feel 
neither pain nor pleasure is a quietude of the soul and 
an intermediate state between the two ? " " Yes, 
we did." " How, then, can it be right to think the 
absence of pain pleasure, or the absence of joy pain- 
ful ? " " In no way." " This is not a reahty, then, 
but an illusion," said I ; " in such case the quietude 

•* Aristotle attacks this doctrine with captious dialectic in 
his Topics and De anima. 

383 



PLATO 

irapa ro dXyeivov rjSv Kal Trapa to rjSv aXyeivov 
t6t€ Tj rjavx^CL, Kal ovhev vytes tovtcov tcvv (f>av- 
raajxdrojv Trpos rjSovrjs dXT^deiav, dAAct yoTQTeia ti?. 
*0? yovv 6 Xoyos, e^Tj, crrjixaiveL. 'I8e roivvv, 

B e<j)riv eyd), rjhovds, at ovk ckt Xvtt(x)v elatv, Iva fxr} 
voXXaKLs olrjdfjs iv t(o Trapovri ovroi tovto rrecpv- 
Kevat, rj8ov7]v fj^ev TravXav Xv7r7]s €tvat,, Xvtttjv he 
rjSovrjs. Hod St^, €(f)r], Kal rrolas Aeyeis; IToA- 
Aat fiev, eiTTov, Kal aAAai, juaAiara 8' et OeXeis 
ivvorjaaL rds nepl rds ocr/xa? rjSovds. avrai yap 
ov TTpoXvTTrjdivTL i^aL(f)vr]s dix-q^avoi to fieyedos 
yiyvovrai, Travcrdfievai re XvTT'qv ouSe/u.iai' Kara- 
XeiTTOvaiv. ^AX-qdearara, €cf)r]. Mrj dpa rrada)- 

C fxeda Kadapdv -qhovrjv elvai, tyjv XvTrrjs dvaXXayrju, 
fjLr]8e XvTTTjv TTjv TjBovrjs. M.rj ydp. 'AAAa nevroi, 
cIttov, at ye Sid rod acDfiaros evl rrjv ^v)(7]V reivov- 
aai Kal Xeyofievat rjSoval ax^Sov at TrXetarai re /cai 
fxeyLcrrai, rovrov rod ecSovg elai, Xvttcov rives avr- 
aAAayai. Etat ydp. Ovkovv Kal at Trpo pieXXovraiV 
TovTOJv €K TTpoaSoKLas yiyvofievaL vporjcrdrjaeLS re 
Kal TTpoXyTT-qaeLS Kara ravrd exovaiv; Kara ravra. 
X. KjLau ovv, rjv o eyco, oiai etat /cat a> 
/LtaAtcrra eoLKamv; To); e(f)7). No/xt^et? Tt, eiirov, 
iv rfj (f>vaeL etvai ro {xev dvo), ro he Kdrco, ro oe 

" Cf. 586 c, and Phileb. 42 b and 41 e. 

* For ovd^u iiyi^s in this sense cf. on 523 n. 

' Cf. Phileb. 44 c-d, Xen. Oecon. 1. 20 -rrpoffTroLov/xevai 
i]5ovai eluai, etc. 

"* For the idea that smells are not conditioned by pain 
cf. Tim. 65 a, Phileb. 51 b and e, and Siebeck, Platon als 
Kritiker Aristotelischer Anslchten, p. 161. 

• Cf. Gorg. 493-494, Phileb. 42 c fF., and Phaedr. 258 e, 
which Wilamowitz, Platon, ii. p. 267 overlooks. 

384 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

in juxtaposition " with the pain appears pleasure, and 
in juxtaposition with the pleasure pain. And these 
illusions have no real bearing ** on the truth of pleasure, 
but are a kind of jugglery." " " So at any rate our 
argument signifies," he said. " Take a look, then," 
said I, " at pleasures which do not follow on pain, so 
that you may not haply suppose for the present that 
it is the nature of pleasure to be a cessation from pain 
and pain from pleasure." " \\Tiere shall I look," he 
said, " and what pleasures do you mean ? " " There 
are many others," I said, " and especially, if you 
please to note them, the pleasures connected \\-ith 
smeU.** For these with no antecedent pain * suddenly 
attain an indescribable intensity, and their cessation 
leaves no pain after them." " Most true," he said. 
" Let us not believe, then, that the riddance of pain 
is pure pleasiure or that of pleasure pain." " No, we 
must not." " Yet, surely," said I, " the affections that 
find their way through the body ^ to the soul » and 
are called pleasures are, we may say, the most and 
the greatest of them, of this type, in some sort releases 
from pain.''" " Yes, they are." " And is not this also 
the character of the anticipatory pleasures and pains 
that precede them and arise from the expectation 
©rthem r " " It is." 

X. " Do you know, then, what their quality is and 
what they most resemble ? " " What ? " he said. 
" Do you think that there is such a thing in nature * 

' Cf. Phaedo 65 a, Phaedr. 258 e. Vol. I. p. 8, note o, 
OD 338 D, and supra p. 8, note 6. 

' Cf. Tim. 45 D (of sensations) m^p* t-^s i'^XV^t Laws 673 a. 
Rep. 462 c ir^bs Tr]v xf^i'XV'' reraixevrj. Cf. also Phileb. 33 D-E, 
84, 43 B-c, and What Plato Said, p. 608. 

* Cf. Phileb. 44 B, 44 c XvirCjv . . . awo<pvy6.i, Protag. 354 e. 

* For iy ry <f>voei cf. Parmen. 1S2 D. 

VOL. II 2 C S85 



PLATO 

fjieaov; "Kycoye. Oi'ei ovv av riva eK rov koltoj 
(f)ep6[ji€Vov vpos ju.ecrov aAAo ri oteaOai t] dvoj 
(f)€peaOai; Kal iv fieacp ardvTa, d(f)opa)VTa oOev 
evrjveKrai, dWodi ttov dv rjyelcrdai eluai 'q iv ro) 
dvo), jjiTj icopaKora to dXrjdojs dvco; Ma A", ovk 
eycoye, (.(jnq, dWcos of/xat olrjdrjvaL dv rov roLovrov. 
E AAA' el TrdXiv y , ^4^'^v, (f)epoLTO, Karco t' dv 
OLOLTO (pepecrdai /cat dXr]drj o'ioiro; YiCbs yap ov; 
OvKovv ravra 7Tda)(0L dv Trdvra hid to p.rj epiTreipos 
etvai Tov dXiqB Lvcos dvoi re 6vto£ /cat ej^ jxeaco /cat 
KaTCo; ^rjXov hrj. @avfjidt,oi,s dv ovv, et /cat ol 
dTreipoL dXr]delas Tvepl ttoXXcov re a'AAcui' fxr] yyteij 
Sd^a? exovGi, irpos t€ rjBovrjv /cat XvTrrjv /cat to 
fiCTa^v tovtcov ovtoj Sta/cetP'Tat, cScttc, oTav fxev 
585 677-1 TO XvTTTjpov (f)€pcovTai, dXr]6i] re otoin^at /cat 
rep ovTL XvTTovvTai, OTav 8e aTro Xvtttjs cttI to 
fxCTa^v, a(j>6hpa fiev otorrat irpos TtXrjpcoaei re /cat 
rjSovfj yiyveadai, cooTrep -npo? p^eXav ^aiov drro- 
aKOTTovvTes aTTetpto. XevKov, /cat Trpog to dXvrrov 
OVTOJ XvTTTiv d^opCovTes dTT€Lpia rjSovrjs dTraTcovrai; 
Ma Ata, ?J 8* OS, OVK dv davpidaaLfjLL, dXXd ttoXv 
jxdXXov, el fiT] ovTcos e;\;ei. ^Q.hi y' o^v, elirov, 
ivvoei' ovxl Trelva Kal Stipa Kal Ta Toiavra Kevcoaeis 



" For the purposes of his illustration Plato takes the 
popular view of up and down, which is corrected in Tim. 
62 c-D and perhaps by the ironical Sri in Phaedo 112 c. 
Cf. Zeller, Aristotle (Eng.) i. p. 428. 

"" Cf. Aristot, Met. 1011 b 30-31 and Eth. Nic. 1154 a 30 
Sid rb TTapa to evavriov (paiveadai. 

" The argument from the parallel of body and mind here 
belongs to what we have called confirmation. Cf. What 
Plato Said, p. 528, on Phaedo 78 b. The figurative use of 
repletion and nutrition is not to be pressed in proof of con- 
386 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

as up and down and in the middle ? " "I do." 
" Do you suppose, then, that anyone who is trans- 
ported from below to the centre would have any 
other opinion than that he was moving upward " ? 
And if he took his stand at the centre and looked in 
the direction from which he had been transported, do 
you think he would suppose himself to be anywhere 
but above, never having seen that which is really 
above ? " " No, by Zeus," he said, " I do not think 
that such a person would have any other notion." 
" And if he were borne back," I said, " he would 
both think himself to be mo\'ing downward and would 
think truly." " Of course." " And would not all 
this happen to him because of his non-acquaintance 
with the true and real up and down and middle ? " 
"Obviously." "Would it surprise you, then," said 
I, " if similarly men without experience of truth and 
reahty hold unsound opinions about many other 
matters, and are so disposed towards pleasure and 
pain and the intermediate neutral condition that, 
when they are moved in the direction of the painful, 
they truly think themselves to be, and really are, in a 
state of pain, but, when they move from pain to the 
middle and neutral state, they intensely believe that 
they are approaching fulfilment and pleasure, and just 
as if, in ignorance of white, they were comparing 
grey with black,** so, being inexperienced in true 
pleasure, they are deceived by viewing painlessness 
in its relation to pain ? " " No, by Zeus," he said, 
" it would not surprise me, but far rather if it were 
not so." " In this way, then, consider it." Are not 
hunger and thirst and similar states inanitions or 

tradictions with the Fhilebus or Gorgias. Cf, Matthew v. 6 
" Hunger and thirst after righteousness." 

387 



PLATO 

B rives etai t^s" Trepl to acofia e^ecos; Ti [X'qv; 
"Ayvoia Se /cat d(f)po(Jvvrj dp^ ov K€v6rr)s earl rrjs 
TTcpl ^vx^v av e^ecos; MaAa ye. Ovkovv TtXripotr 
av o T€ Tpo(f)rjs [ji€TaXafi^dva)V /cat o vovv taxojv; 
Hcbs S' ov; riArjpcoats 8e dXrjdeoripa tov fjTTOV 
r) rod jJidXXov ovros; A'^Aov, on rov jxaXXov. 
Uorepa ovv rjyeZ rd yivrj jxdXXov KaOapds ovalas 
fierex^i'V, rd otov airov re /cat ttotov /cat oifjov /cat 
^viJLTrdurjg rpo(j)7Jg, rj ro S6^r]s re dXrjdovs elSos /cat 

C eTTiCTTT^jLtTys' Kal vov /Cat ^vXXi^pSrjv av Trdarjs 
dperrjs; cSSe Se KpZve- ro rov del o/Jioiov ixofxevov 
/cat dOavdrov /cat dX-qdeiag, /cat avro roLovrov ov 
/cat iv roLOvrip yiyvopuevov , pidXXov elvai crot 8o/cet, 
Tj TO jxrjSeTTore ojxolov /cat dviqrov, /cat avro 
roiovro /cat ev roiovrco ytyvo/xevov ; IToAy, e^^, 
Sta^epet to tou act opcoiov. H owi^ dvopLolov^ 
ovaia ovaiag ri fidXXov r) eTnarijurjs ixerexei; 
OvBafiws. Tt 8', dXrjdeias; Ovhe rovro. Et Se 
dXrjdecas rjrrov, ov /cat ovatas; 'Amy/CTy. Ou/c- 

D ow oXcos ra Trepi rrjv rod acofjiaros depaTreiav yevq 
rdJv yevcov av rcbv Trepl rr)v rrjs ^^XV^ depaTreiav 

^ dvo/xoiov Hermann : ael ofiolov Mss. followed by Ast and 
Stallbaum. Adam reads ael dvo/uLolov and inserts -r) before 
fTrtoTTj/xT;?. C. Ritter treats del 6/xoiov ovcrla as a marginal 
note and reads ^H odv ovcrias ri /xaWov -fj iTriaTTj/xrjs fj.er^x^'' 
{Philologus 67, pp. 312-313). Apelt entirely recasts the 
passage {Woch. f. kl. Phil., 1903, pp. 348-350). 



" For Kevijbffeii cf. Phileb. 35 b, 42 c-d, Tim. Q5 a. 
* For the figure of nourishment of the soul cf. Protag. 
313 c, Phaedr. 248 b, and Soph. 223 e. 

Cf. What Plato Said, p. 517, on Meno 98 a-b. 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

emptinesses " of the bodily habit ? " "Surely." "And 
is not ignorance and folly in turn a kind of emptiness 
of the habit of the soul ? " " It is indeed." " And 
he who partakes of nourishment * and he who gets 
wisdom fills the void and is filled ? " "Of course." 
"And which is the truer filling and fulfilment, that 
of the less or of the more real being ? " " E\^dently 
that of the more real." " And which of the two 
groups or kinds do you think has a greater part in pure 
essence, the class of foods, drinks, and relishes and 
nourishment generally, or the kind of true opinion,* 
knowledge and reason,'' and, in sum, all the things 
that are more excellent * ? Form your j udgement thus. 
Which do you think more truly is, that which clings to 
what is ever like itself and immortal and to the truth, 
and that which is itself of such a nature and is bom 
in a thing of that nature, or that which clings to what 
is mortal and never the same and is itself such and 
is bom in such a thing ? " " That which cleaves 
to what is ever the same far surpasses," he said. 
" Does the essence of that which never abides the 
same partake of real essence any more than of 
knowledge ? " " By no means." "Or of truth and 
reality ? " " Not of that, either." " And if a thing 
has less of truth has it not also less of real essence or 
existence?" "Necessarily." " And is it not gener- 
ally true that the kinds concerned with the ser\ice 
of the body partake less of truth and reaUty than 

' Different kinds of intelligence are treated as synonyms 
because for the present purpose their distinctions are ir- 
relevant. Cf. 511 A, c, and d Sidvoia. Cf. Unity of Plato's 
Thought, p. 43 and p. 47, n. 339. Plato does not distinguish 
synonyms nor virtual synonyms for their own sake as Prodicus 
did. Cf. Protag. 358 a-b. 

* Cf. Symp. 209 a <f)p6vr)alv tc icat rrjj' dWi/v a.p€TT}v, 

889 



PLATO 

rjTTOv aXrjOeias re Kal ovalag ix€T€)(et,; UoXv ye. 
ScD/xa 8e avTO tjjvx^S ovk otei ovrcos; "Eycoye. 
OvKovv TO Tcbv fjidXXov ovTCOV TrXrjpovixevov Kai 
avTO [xaXXov ov ovrcos fxaXXov TrXrjpovrat, ■^ to tcov 
rJTTOV ovruiv koL avro rjTTOv 6v; Ylibs yap ov; 
Et apa TO TrXrjpovadaL tcov cfivaeL TrpoarjKOVTCOV 

rjhv ioTt, TO TCp OVTt, Kol TCOV OVTCOV TTXrjpOVJJieVOV 

E fxaXXov pidXXov ovTCos T€ Kal dXr^OeaTepcos X'^^P^^^ 
dv 7TOLOL -qhovfj dXrjOel, to 8e tcov tJttov ovtcov 
pLeTaXap.^dvov rjTTOv t€ dv dXrjOcos Kal ^e^aicos 
TrXrjpolTO Kal aTTiaTOTepas dv i^SovtJ? Kal rjTTOV 
dXrjOovg jjieTaXafM^dvoL. 'AvayKaioTara, €(f)7]. Ot 
586 apa cfipovrjaecos Kal dpeTrjg aTreipoi, evcoxf-ais Se 
Kal Toig ToiovTOis del ^vvovtcs, KaTCo, cog eoiKe, 
Kal fiexpi' TTCtAiP' TTpog to jxeTa^v cf)€povTat re /cat 
ravTTj TrXavcbvTai Sid ^iov, vrrep^avTeg Se tovto 
TTpog TO dXrjdcos dvco ovt€ dve^Xei/jav ttcottot€ ovt6 
"qvex^^'jcrav, ovSe tov ovtos tco ovti eTrXrjpcodrjaav, 
ouSe ^e^aiov t€ /cat Kadapds ^Sovrjg eyevuavTO, 
dXXd ^oaKyjixdrcov Slktjv KaTco aet ^XevovTeg /cat 
K^KVcjiOTe? et? yrfv Kal et? rpane^as ^ooKOVTai 

B ;^o/3Ta^d/iet'ot /cat 6x^vovt€s, Kal eVe/ca ttjs Toprcov 

° For ^vv6vT€s see Blaydes on Aristoph. Clouds 1404. \ 
* Cf. What Plato Said, p. 528, on Phaedo 79 c for rrXai-dw 
of error in thought. This is rather the errare of l/ucretiiis 
ii. 10 and the post-AristoteHan schools. 

" Cf. on 576 A &yev(TTO'i, and for the thought of the whole 

sentence cf, Dio Chrys. Or. xiii., Teubner, vol. i. p. 240, and 

William Watson, " The things that are more excellent": 

To dress, to call, to dine . . . 

How many a soul for these things lives 

With pious passion, grave intent . . . 

And never even in dreams hath seen 

The things that are more excellent. 

390 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

those that serve the soul ? " " Much less." " And 
do you not think that the same holds of the body 
itself in comparison with the soul ? " "I do." 
" Then is not that which is fulfilled of what more 
truly is, and which itself more truly is, more truly 
filled and satisfied than that which being itself less 
real is filled with more unreal things ? " " Of 
course." " If, then, to be filled v^nth what befits nature 
is pleasure, then that which is more really filled 
with real things would more really and truly cause us 
to enjoy a true pleasure, while that which partakes 
of the less truly existent would be less truly and surely 
filled and would partake of a less trustworthy and 
less true pleasure." " Most ine\itably," he said. 
" Then those who have no experience of -vWsdom and 
virtue but are ever devoted to <^ feastings and that sort 
of thing are swept do\\'nward, it seems, and back 
again to the centre, and so sway and roam ^ to and fro 
throughout their lives, but they have never tran- 
scended all this and turned their eyes to the true upper 
region nor been wafted there, nor ever been really 
filled with real things, nor ever tasted"^ stable and pure 
pleasure, but \«th eyes ever bent upon the earth '^ and 
heads bowed dovsTi over their tables they feast hke 
cattle,* grazing and copulating, ever greedy for more 

'' Cf. Milton, ComtUy " Ne'er looks to heaven amid its 
gorgeous feast," Rossetti, " Nineveh," in fine, " That set 
gaze never on the sky," etc. Cf. S. O. Dickermann, De 
Argumentis quibusdam ap. Xenophontem, Platonem, Aristo- 
telem ohviis e structura hominis et animalium petitis, 
Halle, 1909, who lists Plato's Symp. 190 a. Rep. 586 a, 
Cratyl. 396 b, 409 c, Tim. 90 a, 91 e, and many other 
passages. 

• Cf. Aristot. Eih. JS'ic. 1095 b 20 ^oaKrifidTuy ^lov. Cf. 
What Plato Said, p. 611, on Phlleb., in fine. 

391 



PLATO 

TrXeove^las XaKTit,ovT€s Kal KvptrrovTeg aXX'qXovs 

aiSrjpoLS Kcpaat re Kal oTrXats aTTOKTivvvacn 8t' 

I dvX7]aTLav, are ovxi rots ovaiv ovSe to ov ovSe 

\ TO areyov iavrwv TTLfXTrXavTes. HavreXcos, €(f)7] 6 

VXavKOiv, rov rcov ttoXXwv, cS Sco/cpare?, XPV^I^V 

oels ^iov. *Ap' ovv ovK dvdyKr] /cat rjSovals ^vv- 

1 elvai n€fjLiyix4vais AuTrat?, eiSaJAot? rrjs dXr]dovs 

! rjhoprjs Kal iaKiaypacf)rjfxevais, vtto ttjs irap 

^ aAAi^Aas deaeojs aTTOXpacvofxevaLS , ware a(f)ohpovs 

CKarepas <j>aiveadai. Kal epcoras eavrcov XvTTCOvras 

Tols d(f>poaLv ivrLKTCLv Kal TTepipLaxrjTovs elvai, 

(joaiTep TO TTJs KXevrjs e'lScoXov vtto tcov iv Tpoia 

\ laTT]aixop6s (f)rjai yeveadai Trepip.dx'rjTov dyvoia tov 

j aXrjdovs; IIoAAt^ dvdyKT], e^f], toiovtov ti avTO 

etvat . 

XI. Tt Se; TTepl to dvpioeihes ovx erepa roiavTa 
avayKT] yiyveadai, og dv avTo tovto 8 tan pdTTrjTai 
7] (f)d6va) 8ia (f)i,XoTLp,iav "q jSta 8ta (jjiXoviKiav 'q 
■D Qvp.{p hid hvcjKoXiav, TrXrjafjiovrjv Tijjirjs tc /cat 
VLKTjg /cat dvfjiov 8ta)Kcov dveu XoyiapLOV re Kat 
vov; ToiavTa, rj S' os, dvdyKrj /cat irepl tovto 
etvai. Ti ovv; 'qv 8' iyw' dappovvTes XiycopLev, 

« Cf. supra 373 e, Phaedo 66 c ff., Berkeley, Siris 330 
•' For these things men fight, cheat, and scramble." 
" rb (7T{yov : c/. Gorg. 493 b, Laws 714 a. 

* Plato laughs at himself. Cf. supra 509 c and 540 b-c. 
The picturesque, allegorical style of oracles was proverbial. 
For xRV^/^V^^^" c/- Crat. 396 b, Apol. 39 c, Laws 712 a. 

■* Cf. on 584 A, p. 384, note a. 

* For Trepi/j.axvTovs cf. Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1168 b 19, Eth. 
Eud. 1248 b 27, and supra on 531 a, p. 145, note e. 

f For the Stesichorean legend that the real Helen remained 
in Egypt while only her phantom went to Troy cf. Phaedr. 
243 a-b, Eurip. Hel. 605 ff.. Elect. 1282-1283, Isoc. Hel. 64, 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

of these delights; and in their greed** kicking and 
butting one another \\'ith horns and hooves of iron they 
slay one another in sateless a%idity, because they are 
vainly striving to satisfy ^^'ith things that are not real 
the unreal and incontinent part** of their souls." 
" You describe in quite oracular style," Socrates," said 
Glaucon, " the life of the multitude." " And are 
not the pleasures with which they dwell inevitably 
commingled with pains, phantoms of true pleasure, 
illusions of scene-painting, so coloured by contrary 
juxtaposition ** as to seem intense in either kind, and 
to beget mad loves of themselves in senseless souls, 
and to be fought for,* as Stesichorus says the wraith 
of Helen ^ was fought for at Troy through ignorance 
of the truth ? " " It is quite inevitable," he said, 
" that it should be so." 

XI, " So, again, must not the hke hold of the high- 
spirited element, whenever a man succeeds in satis- 
fying that part of his nature — his covetousness of 
honour by envy, his love of \'ictory by violence, his 
ill-temper by indulgence in anger, pursuing these 
ends without regard to consideration and reason ? " 
" The same sort of thing," he said, " must necessarily 
happen in this case too." " Then," said I, " may we 

and Philologus 55, pp. 634 ff. Diimmler, Akademika p. 55, 
thinks this passage a criticism of Isoc. Helena 40. Cf. also 
Teichmiiller, 2,(7. Fehden, i. pp. 113 fF. So Milton, Reason 
of Church Government, " A lawny resemblance of her like 
that air-born Helena in the fables." For the ethical sym- 
bolism cf. 520 c-D, Shelley, " Adonais " 39 : 

'Tis we who, lost in stormy visions, keep 
With phantoms an unprofitable strife. 
Arnold, "Dover Beach," in fine: 

And we are here as on a darkling plain 

Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight. 

Where ignorant armies clash by night. 

393 



PLATO 

on Kal TTcpl TO <f)i.XoK€ph€s Kal TO (jyiXovLKOv oaai 
€7n9vjjitai elaiv, at ^lev av rfj iTnar-qfir) Kal Xoytp 
eTTOjJievai /cat /xeTct toutcov Ta? rjdovag SnoKovaai, 
as av TO (f)p6vifxov i^rjyrJTai,, Xafx^dvcoai, ras 
aXr^deaTdrag re Xrjipovrai, cog olov re auTat? 
aX-qdelg Xa^eZv, dre dXrjOeia eTTO/xevcov, Kat Ta? 
E eavTOJv ot/cetas', einep to ^IXtlgtov eKdarcp tovto 
/cat oLKeioraTov ; 'AAAa p-T^v, ^4''"!' olKeiorarov ye. 
Tip (f)t,XoG6(f)cp dpa e7Topievr]s drrdarjs ttj? ^^XV^ 
Kat p,y] (TTaaial,ova-qg eKdcmp rco p-epei inrdpx^i' et? 
T€ rdXXa rd eavrov Trpdrretv /cat hiKaiip elvaiy /cat hy) 
/cat Tct? T^Som? Ta? eavrov eKaorov Kal to-S" ^eXriaras 
587 Kat elg ro Svvardv rds dXrjdeaTdras KapTTOvadai. 
K.opii8fj p,€V ovv. "Orav Se dpa rdjv erepcov ri 
Kpar-qcrrj, VTrapx^L avraj p^-qre rrjv iavrov rjSovrjv 
i^evpioKeiv, rd re aAA' dvayKdt,eiv dXXorpiav /cat 
firj dXrjdrj rjSovriv SicoKeiv. Ovrois, ^<f>'^' Ovkovv 
a TrXeZcrrov ^iXoao<f)las re /cat Xoyov d<j>earr]Ke, 
/LtaAiCTT* dv roiavra e^epyd^oiro; OoAu ye. HAet- 
arov Se Aoyou d(j)iararaL ovx orrep vopuov re Kat 
rd^ecDs; AijXovS'q. 'Kc/idvrjaav he TrXelarov dcf)earu)- 
aai ovx ^^ epojriKai re Kal rvpavviKal emBvpnai,; 

" Cf. Phaedo 69 b, and Theaet. 176 b /lera tppovi/iaeias. 

* e^vyVTCii has a religious tone. See on i^rjyyjTi^s 427 c. 
Cf. 604 B. 

" Cf. on 583 B, p. 380, note b. 
<» Cf. What Plato Said, p. 491, on Lysis 221 e. 
" Cf. 352 A, 440 B and e, 442 d, 560 a, Phaedr. 237 e. 
f Cf. What Plato Said, p. 480 on Charm. 161 b. 
» For ets to Svvardv cf. 500 d, 381 c, Laws 795 d, 830 b, 
862 B, 900 c. 

* What follows (587 b-588 a) is not to be taken too seri- 
ously. It illustrates the method of procedure by minute 
links, the satisfaction of Plato's feelings by confirmations 

394 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

not confidently declare that in both the gain-loving 
and the contentious part of our nature all the desires 
that wait upon knowledge and reason, and, pursuing 
their pleasiu-es in conjunction with them," take only 
those pleasures which reason approves,* will, since they 
follow truth, enjoy the truest * pleasures, so far as that 
is possible for them, and also the pleasures that are 
proper to them and their o'vvn, if for everything that 
which is best may be said to be most its ' ovra ' <* ? " 
" But indeed," he said, " it is most truly its very 
own." " Then when the entire soul accepts the 
guidance of the wisdom-lo\ing part and is not filled 
with inner dissension,* the result for each part is that 
it in all other respects keeps to its own task ^ and is 
just, and hkewise that each enjoys its own proper 
pleasures and the best pleasures and, so far as such a 
thing is possible,^ the truest." "Precisely so." "And 
so when one of the other two gets the mastery the 
result for it is that it does not find its own proper 
pleasure and constrains the others to pursue an alien 
pleasure and not the true." " That is so," he said. 
" And would not that which is furthest removed from 
philosophy and reason be most hkely to produce this 
effect* ? " " Quite so," he said. " And is not that 
furthest removed from reason which is furthest from 
law and order ? " " Obviously." " And was it not 
made plain that the furthest removed are the erotic 
and tyrannical appetites ? " " Quite so." " And 

and analogies, and his willingness to play with mathematical 
symbolism. Cf. 546 b f. and William Temple, Plato and 
Christianity, p. 55: " Finally the whole thing is a satire on 
the humbug of mystical number, but I need not add that 
the German commentators are seriously exercised. . . ." 
See however A. G. Laird in Clasg. Phil. xi. (1916) pp. 
465-468. 

395 



PLATO 

B IIoAu y€. 'EAa;\;taTOP' Se at ^aaiXiKai re Kat 
/cdcr/xiai; Nai. nAetCTTOv' St^, otjuai, akqdovs rjho- 
vfjs Kal olK€ias 6 rvpawos d^ecm^^et, o 8e oAt- 
y«TTOi'. ^AvdyKiq. Kat di^SeCTTara apa, enrov, o 
Tvpavvos ^Lchaerai, 6 8e ^acnXevs rj^Lara. HoAArj 
avayKiq. Otad^ ovv, rjv S' eyco, ocroj drj^earepov 
t,fj rvpawos ^aaiXecos; "Av eLTrrjs, ^(f>'^- TpioJv 
TjSovaJv, (I)s €OiK€V, ovacbv, fxid? fieu yvrjaias, Bvolv 

C Se vodacv, rojv vodcov els to eTteKeiva VTrep^ds o 
rvpawos, (f)vy(jbv vojxov re /cat Xoyov, BovXais Ttcri 
SopV(f)6poLs Tjbovals ^vvoiK€L, Kal oTToaoj eXarrovrai 
ovbe TTavv pahiov eiTrelv, TrXrjv tacos d)Se. Ila)?; 
€(f)i]. 'Att-o rov oXiyapxt'Kov rpiros ttov 6 rvpawos 
d^eicrrrjKef iv ixeaco yap avrcbv 6 hiqpioriKOS rjv- 
Nat. OvKOVv Kal rjSovrjs rpircp el8d)Xcp Trpos 
dXijOeiav ttTr' CKetvov ^vvolkoI dv, el rd rrpoadev 
dXrjdrj; Ovrcos. '0 8e' ye dXiyapx^-Kos drrd rov 

D ^aaiXcKOv av rpiros, edv els ravrov apiaro- 
KpariKQV Kal ^aaiXiKov rLdcop^ev. Tptro? yct/J- 
TpiTrXaaiov dpa, rjv S' eycL, rpiTrXdaiov dpidfio) 
dXrjdovs TjSovijs d(f)€arr]Ke rvpawos. Oatverat. 
'ETTtVeSov a/a', e(f)rjv, co? eoLKe, ro etSojAot' Kara 
rov rov p/iqKovs dptdfxov rjBovrjs rvpawLKTJs dv eir]. 
KopbiSfj ye. Kara Se Svvafxiv Kal rpirrjv av^rjv 
SrjXov St] dvoaracnv oarjv d(f)ear'qK(hs yiyverai. 
ArjXov, e(f)rj, r<h ye XoyiartKco. Ovkovv eav ns 

E jxeraarpet/jas dXr^deia rjSovi^s tov ^acnXea rov 
rvpdwov d(f>earr]K6ra Xeyrj, oaov a<f)eari]Kev , 

" Cf. Polit. 257 B a4)€<TTacnv. 

^ Cf. Vol. I. p. 282, note a, on 408 d and supra p, 344, 
note 6, on 573 d. 

« For eh rb iiriKeiva cf. Phaedo 1 12 B and svpra 509 b. J 

<* Cf. Vol. I. p. 422, note b, on 445 d and Menex. 238 d. ^ 
396 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

least so the royal and orderly ? " " Yes." " Then the 
tyrant's place, I think, will be fixed at the furthest re- 
move" from true and proper pleasure, and the king's 
at the least." " Necessarily." " Then the tyrant's 
life will be least pleasurable and the king's most." 
" There is every necessity of that." " Do you know, 
then," said I, " how much less pleasurably the tyrant 
lives than the king ? " "I'll know if you tell me,* " he 
said. " There being as it appears three pleasures, 
one genuine and two spurious, the tyrant in his flight 
from law and reason crosses the border beyond " the 
spurious, cohabits with certain sla\ish, mercenary 
pleasures, and the measure of his inferiority is not 
easy to express except perhaps thus." " How ? " he 
said. " The tvrant, I believe, we found at the third 
remove from the oligarch, for the democrat came 
between." " Yes." " And would he not also dwell 
with a phantom of pleasure in respect of reality three 
stages removed from that other, if all that we have 
said is true ? " " That is so." " And the oligarch in 
turn is at the third remove from the royal man if we 
assume the identity of the aristocrat and the king.** " 
" Yes, the third." " Three times three, then, by 
numerical measure is the interval that separates the 
tyrant from true pleasure." " Apparently." " The 
phantom « of the tyrant's pleasure is then by longitu- 
dinal mensuration a plane number." " Quite so." 
" But by squaring and cubing it is clear what the 
interval of this separation becomes." " It is clear," he 
said, " to a reckoner. " " Then taking it the other way 
about, if one tries to express the extent of the interval 
between the king and the tyrant in respect of true 

• Cf. Phaedo 66 c eiSwXwv, where Olympiodorus (Norvin, 
p. 36) takes it of the unreality of the lower pleasures. 



PLATO 

ivveaKaL€LKoaLKat,€TrTaKoai07TXaaLdK ts rjSiov avrov 
^ajvra evprjaei reXeicodeiarj rfj TToXXaTrXaaicoaei, top 
Se Tvpavvov aviaporepov rfj avTrj ravrrj aTToardaei, . 
^ Apirixo.vov , e'^7^, Xoyi.ap.ov KaTa7T€(f)6prjKas ri]? 
SiacfiopoTrjTOS tolv dvSpolv, tov re SiKaiov Kai 
688 TOV dSiKov, irpos rjSovqv re Kal Xvtttjv. Kat 
fievToi Kal dXrjdrj Kal TrpoariKOvrd ye, rfv 8' eyw, 
plots dpiOjxov, €L7Tep avTols TTpocfqKovaiv rjixepai 
Kal vvKTCs Kal fjLrjv€S Kal eviavroi. 'AAAa /ai^v, 
6^17, TTpoarjKovaiv. Ovkovv el roaovrov rjSovfj 
VLKa 6 dyaOos re Kal SiKatos tov KaKov re /cat 
dhiKOVy dfxrj)(dvcp 8r) oacp irXelov viK-qcrei ev- 
ax^piocrvvr) re ^iov Kal KoXXei Kal dpeTrj; 'A/xt^- 
Xdva> fxevTOL vrj Ala, e(f)r]. 

XII. ¥Jtev Si], elnov iiTeihr) evTavda Xoyov 

B yeyovafxev , dvaXd^cop^ev Ta TvpcoTa Xe^devTa, St, 
d Seu/a' rJKoixev -^v Se ttov Xeyofxevov , XvatTeXeZv 
dSiKeiv Tip TeXeojs p-ev dSlKcp, So^at,op,eva) Se 
Si/caio). rj ov)( ovtojs eXex^f]; Ovtco p,ev oiiv. 
Nvv Sij, e(f)r)v, avTCp SiaXeycop^eda, eTreiSrj Siatpio- 
Xoyr]adp,eda to re dhiKeZv Kal to Si/caia TrpaTTCiv 
rjv eKdTepov e^ei Svvapnv, Hcos; ^^V- Et/coi^a 
TT-Aacrarres' ttjs ^vx'rjs Xoycp, iva elSfj 6 eKelva 

C Xeyojv ola eXeyev. IToiW Tivd; rj 8' 6s. TcDi' 
ToiovTwv TLvd, -^v 8' eyctj, otai p,v6oXoyovvTai 
TraAatai yeveadai (f)vaeis, 'rj re Xtjuaipas' Kal r) 

" Cf. Spencer, Data of Ethics, p. 14 "Hence estimating 
life by multiplying its length into its breadth." For the 
mathematical jest cf. Polit. 257 a-b. 

* Humorous as in 509 c bivepfioKrjs. 

' Cf. Phileb. 13 a, 14 a, Parmen. 141 c, Theaet. 209 a 
and D. 
898 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

pleasure he will find on completion of the multiplica- 
tion that he lives 729 times as happily and that the 
tyrant's life is more painful by the same distance." " 
" An overwhelming ^ and baffling calculation," he 
said, " of the difference" between the just and the / 
unjust man in respect of pleasure and pain ! " " And 
what is more, it is a true number and pertinent to the 
lives of men if days and nights and months and years 
pertain to them." " They certainly do," he said. 
" Then if in point of pleasure the victory of the good 
and just man over the bad and unjust is so great as 
this, he will surpass him inconceivably in decency and 
beauty of life and virtue." " Inconceivably indeed, 
by Zeus," he said. 

XII. "Very good," said I. " And now that we have 
come to this point in the argument, let us take up 
again the statement with which we began and that has 
brought us to this pass.'* It was, I believe, averred 
that injustice is profitable to the completely unjust « 
man who is reputed just. Was not that the proposi- 
tion?" "Yes, that." "Let us, then, reason with its 
proponent now that we have agreed on the essential 
nature of injustice and just conduct." " How ? " he 
said. " By fashioning in our discourse a symbohc image 
of the soul, that the maintainer of that proposition 
may see precisely what it is that he was saying." 
" What sort of an image ? " he said. " One of those 
natures that the ancient fables tell of," said I, " as 
that of the Chimaera^ or Scylla^ or Cerberus,'* and 

** Plato keeps to the point. Cf. 4,72 b, Phileb. 27 c, and 
p. 339, note e, on 572 b. ' Cf. 348 b, 361 a. 

f Cf. Homer, II. vi. 179-182, Phaedr. 229 d. 
» Od. xii. 85 S. 
» Hesiod, Theog. 311-312. 

399 



PLATO 

JlKvXXrjg Kal K^ep^epov, Kal aAAai nines' crvxval Ae- 
yovrai ^vpiTT€<j)VKvZai, tSe'at TroAAat et? tv yeviadai. 
AeyovraL yap, ecf^rj. YlXdrre roivvv p,iav fxev ISeav 
Brjpiov ttoikIXov Kal TToXvKe^aXov, rjjxipoiv Se 
drjpioiv €)(ovTog Ke(f)aXag kvkXco Kal aypioov, Kal 
ovvarov jLterajSaAAeiv Kal (f)veiv i^ avrov Trdvra 

D ravra. Aeivov -nXdaTov, e^>7, ro epyov op,a>s 8e, 
eTTeiSr) cvTrXacrTorepov Ktjpov Kal tcov tolovtcdv 
Xoyos, TTCTrXdaOio. Mtar 8r) roivvv dXXriv ISeav 
XeovTos, ixiav 8e dvdpcoTTov ttoXv §e /xeytaTov earo) 
TO TTpojTOV Kal SevTcpov TO ScvTepov. Tayra, e<l>r], 
pdo)' Kal TreTrXaarai. Yivvairre tolvvv avTO. els 
€v Tpia ovra, <x)aTe tttj ^vpLTT€(f)VKevai dAAT^Aots". 
TtVVTJTTTai, €<f>7}. YlepLTrXaaov Br) avrots e^codev 
evos €LKOva, ttjv tov dvOpcoTTOV, u)are Tip fMrj 

E hwafxevcp to. ivros opdv, dXXd to e^co piovov 
eXvTpov opdJvTL, ev l^wov (jyaiveaOat, dvdpCDTTov. 
UepLTTeTrXacTTai, ^<f>'^' Adyojpiev Brj tw Xeyovrc, 

° Stallbaum ad loc. gives a long list of writers who 
imitated this passage. Hesiod, Theog. 823 f., portrays a 
similar monster in Typhoeus, who had a hundred serpent- 
heads. For the animal in man cf. Tim. 70 e, Charm. 155 d-e, 
Phaedr. 230 a, 246 a ff., Boethius, Cons. iv. 2-3, Horace, 
Epist. i. 1. 76, lamblichus, Protrept. chap, iii., Machiavelll, 
Prince xvii. (La Bestia), Emerson, History: "Every animal 
in the barnyard . . . has contrived to get a footing . . . 
in some one or other of these upright heaven-facing speakers. 
Ah, brother, hold fast to the man and awe the beast," etc. 
Cf. Tennyson, lines " By an Evolutionist " : 

But I hear no yelp of the beast, and the Man is quiet at 
last. 

400 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

the numerous other examples that are told of many 
forms grown together in one." " Yes, they do tell 
of them." " Mould, then, a single shape of a manifold 
and many -headed beast " that has a ring of heads of 
tame and wild beasts and can change them and cause 
to spring forth from itself all such growths." " It is the 
task of a cunning artist,* " he said, " but nevertheless, 
since speech is more plastic than wax " and other such 
media, assume that it has been so fashioned." " Then 
fashion one other form of a lion and one of a man and 
let the first be far the largest •* and the second second 
in size." " That is easier," he said, " and is done." 
" Join the three in one, then, so as in some sort to 
grow together." " They are so united," he said. 
" Then mould about them outside the hkeness of one, 
that of the man, so that to anyone who is unable to 
look within * but who can see only the external sheath 
it appears to be one U\ing creature, the man." " The 
sheath is made fast about him," he said. " Let us, 

" In Memoriam," cxviii. : 

Move upward, working out the beast. 
And let the ape and tiger die. 
A modem scientific man solemnly writes : " The theory of 
evolution has prepared us to acknowledge the presence of 
something of the ape and tiger in us." For an example 
of modern nimiety or too-muchness cf. Sandburg's " There 
is a wolf in me. . . . There is a fox in me. . . . There is 
a hog in me ... O, I got a zoo, I got a menagerie inside 
my ribs." Cf. Brunetiere, Questions actuelles, p. 114. 

» Cf. 596 c. 

* Cf. Cic. Be or. iii. 45 " sicut moUissimam ceram . . . 
fingimus." Otto, p. 80, says it is a proverb. For the de- 
velopment of this figure cf. Pliny, Epist. vii. 9 " ut laus est 
cerae, mollis cedensque sequatur." For the idea that word 
is more precise or easy than deed cf. supra 473 a, Phaedo 
99 E, T^ics 636 a, 736 b, Tim. 19 e. 

" Cf. 443 A. • Cf. 577 A. 

VOL. II 2d -401 



PLATO 

(Ls XvaireXel rovro) dStKelv rco avOpoiTTCp, 6t/caia 
Se TTpaTTCiv ov ^Vfji(f)€p€i, OTt ovSev dXXo (fyrjalv rj 
XvaiTeXelv avrw ro TravroBavov drjpLov cvcoxovvtc 
TTOieZv la)(yp6v Kal rov Xeovra /cat rd Trepi rov 
589 Xeovra, rov Se dvdpojTTOv Xip,OKrov€iv Kal TTOieiv 
dadevrj, ware eXKeodai ottyj dv eKelvcov OTTorepov 
dyrj, Kal jxr^Sev erepov erepcp ^vveOit^eiv p.rjhe (faXov 
TToietv, dXX edv avrd ev avrols SaKveadai re Kal 
fxaxofxeva eadieiv dXXrjXa. Ilai'TaTraCTi ydp, ^<f>f], 
ravr dv Xeyot, 6 ro dStKelv erraLvcbv. Ovkovv av 
o rd SiKaia Xeycov Xvat-reXeiv (j^air] dv heZv ravra 
TTpdrreiv /cat ravra Xeyeiv, ddev rov dvdpcoirov o 

B evros dvdpcoTTOs earai eyKpareararos , Kai rov 
TToXvKe<f>dXov dpejxjxaros eTnpieXrjaerai oiorrep yecop- 
yos, rd fiev rjfiepa rpe^ojv Kal ridaaevcov, rd he 
dypia drroKcoXviov ^veadai, ^vfifiaxov 'noL7)adfievos 
rrjv rov Xeovros <j)vaiv, Kal Koivfj iravrcov KTjho- 
fxevos, (/>tAa TTOLrjadixevos dXXtjXois re Kal avrw, 
ovroj Opeifjei; KofiLSfj ydp av Xeyei ravra 6 rd 
SiKaiov eTTaiviov. Kara rrdvra rpoTTOv Srj 6 fxev 

Q rd St/cata eyKOip.idt,ojv aXrjOrj dv Xeyoi, 6 Se rd 
dhiKa ipevSoiro. Trpos re ydp 7j8ovr]V Kal rrpos 
evho^iav Kal d)cf)eXeiav aKOTTOvpievtp 6 p,ev eTTaLverr^s 
Tov biKaiov dXrjdevei, 6 Se ifjeKrT]s ovSev vyi,es ovh* 

" The whole passage illustrates the psjchology of 440 b ff. 

* Cf. Protag. 352 c irepieXKoixivrjs, with Aristot. Eth. Nic. 
1145b 24. 

" Perhaps a latent allusion to Hesiod, Works and 
Days 278. 

•* Cf. "the inward man," Romans vii. 22, 2 Cor. iv. 16, 
Ephes. iii. 16. 

" Cf. Arnold, Culture and Anarchy, p. 10 " Religion 
says : ' The kingdom of God is within you ' ; and culture, in 

402 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

then say to the speaker who avers that it pays this 
man to be unjust, and that to do justice is not for his 
advantage, that he is affirming nothing else than that 
it profits him to feast and make strong the multi- 
farious beast and the lion and all that pertains to the 
lion, but to starve the man " and so enfeeble him that 
he can be pulled about ^ whithersoever either of the 
others drag him, and not to familiarize or reconcile 
with one another the two creatures but suffer them 
to bite and fight and devour one another/ " " Yes," 
he said, " that is precisely what the panegyrist of 
injustice will be found to say." " And on the other 
hand he who says that justice is the more profitable 
affirms that all our actions and words should tend to give 
the man within us ** complete domination « over the 
entire man and make him take charge ■'' of the many- 
headed beast — like a farmer' who cherishes and 
trains the cultivated plants but checks the gro^^'th of 
the y.'ild — and he v,-i\\ make an ally* of the lion's 
nature, and caring for all the beasts alike vriW first 
make them friendly to one another and to himself, 
and so foster their growth." " Yes, that in turn is 
precisely the meaning of the man who commends 
justice." " From every point of \iew, then, the pan- 
egyrist of justice speaks truly and the panegyrist of 
injustice falsely. For whether we consider pleasure, 
reputation, or profit, he who commends justice speaks 
the truth, while there is no soundness or real know- 
like manner, places human perfection in an internal condi- 
tion, in the growth and predominance of our humanity 
proper, as distinguished from our animality." 

' Cf. Oorg. 516 a-b. 

» Cf. Theaft. 167 d-c, and What Plato Said, p. 456, on 
Euthyphro 2 d. 

* C/. 441 A. 

403 



PLATO 

etSco? ipeyei o ri ifjeyei. Ov fxoi So/cet, -q S' os", 
ovSafifj ye. Heidconev roivvv avrov Trpdcos, ov 
yap eKOJv ajxaprdvcty ipcjrwvTes' (o /xa/cctpie, ov 
Kal TO. KaXa koL alaxpo. vofxtfjia Std rd roiavr dv 
D (f>aL[xev yeyovlvaf rd fiev KaXd to, vtto tw dvdpioTTO), 
fjidXXov Se tacos rd vtto ra> deicp rd 6r]pi,c6S7j 
TTOLovvTa TTJs (f>vaecos, alaxpd 8e to, vtto toj dyptxo 
TO yjfjiepov SovXov[ji€va; ^u/x</i7jcret t] ttcos; 'Eav 
/not, ^^y], TTetdrjrat,. "Kariv ovv, eiTTOV, otco Xvai- 
reAet e/c tovtov tov Xoyov ;^/>ucrtor Xajx^dvetv d- 
Slkojs, CLTTep TOLovSe Tt ytyveraL, Xafx^avwv to 
Xpvaiov dfxa KaraSovXovTai to ^IXtlgtov eavTov tco 
E fioxOrjpoTdrcp ; ^ el pt,€v Aa^tov ;)^pucnoi' vlov "q 
dvyaTepa iSovXovro, Kal TavT* els dypicxiv re /cat 
KaKcJbv dvSpcbv, ouK dv avTcp eXvaireXei ovh av 
TTafiTToXv eTTL TOVTcp Xa/ji^dveLV, el Se to eavTOV 
BeioTaTov VTTO Tcp ddecordro) re /cat fiiapcoTdrcp 
SovXovTai /cat p,7]Sev eXeei, ovk dpa adXios ean Kai 
590 TToXi) eTTL SeivoTepu) 6X4.9 pa> ;^/)j;ct6v ScopoSo/cet ■^ 
*^pL(f)vXr] eTTL rfj tov dvSpos 4'^xf} "^^^ opfiov 
he^ayiivrj; IIoAli fievTOL, ^ S' oj o FXavKCov eyd) 
yap aoL vvep eKelvov dTTOKpLvovp.aL. 

XIII. OvKovv Kal TO aKoXaoTaiveLv oiet Sta 
ToiavTa TTaXaL ifjeyeadai, otl dvLeraL ev Tib tolovto) 

" irpdoos : cf. the use of i)pi^a 476 e, 494 d. 

'' Plato always maintains that wrong-doing is involuntary 
and due to ignorance. Cf. What Plato Said, p. 640, on 
Laws 860 d. 

" Cf. supra 501 b, Tennyson, " Locksley Hall Sixty Years 
after, in Uncy " The highest Human Nature is divine." 

" Cf. Matt. xvi. 26, Mark viii. 36, " What shall it profit 
a man if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own 
soul ? " A typical argumentum ex contrario. Cf, 445 a-b and 
404 , 

i 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

ledge of what he censures in him who disparages it." 
" None whatever, I think," said he. " Shall we; then, 
try to persuade hini gently," for he does not wilhngly 
err,* by questioning him thus : Dear friend, should 
we not also say that the things which law and custom 
deem fair or foul have been accounted so for a like 
reason — the fair and honourable things being those 
that subject the brutish part of our nature to that 
which is human in us, or rather, it may be, to that 
which is di\ine,'^ while the foul and base are the things 
that enslave the gentle nature to the wild ? Will he 
assent or not ? " " He will if he is counselled bv me." 
" Can it profit any man in the light of this thought to 
accept gold unjustly if the result is to be that by the 
acceptance he enslaves the best part of himself to the 
worst ? Or is it conceivable that, while, if the taking 
of the gold enslaved his son or daughter and that too to 
fierce and evil men, it would not profit him,<* no matter 
how large the sum, yet that, if the result is to be the 
ruthless enslavement of the divinest part of himself to 
the most despicable and godless part, he is not to be 
deemed wretched and is not taking the golden bribe 
much n\ore disastrously than Eriphyle * did when she 
received the necklace as the price ^ of her husband's 
life ? " " Far more," said Glaucon, " for I vsill 
answer you in his behalf." 

XIII. " And do you not think that the reason for 
the old objection to licentiousness is similarly because 

Vol. I. p. 40, note c. On the supreme value of the soul cf. 
JjOws 726-7:28, 743 e, 697 b, 913 b, 959 a-b. Cf. supra 585 d. 

« Cf. Od. xi. 326, Frazer on Apollodorus iii. 6. 2 (Loeb). 
Stallbaum refers also to Pindar, Nem. ix. 37 ff., and Pausan. 
X. 29. 7. 

^ For f Tt in this sense cf. Thompson on Meno 90 d. Cf, 
Apol. 41a eiri jroffv, Demosth. xlv. 66. 

405 



PLATO 

TO Seivov, TO fjieya eKeivo Kal noXveiSes dpi^^a 
TTepa rod Seovrog; ArjXov, ^4''^' '^ ^' o-vddheta 

B Kal hvdKoXia ifjeyerai ovx orav to XeovrcbSes re 
/cat o^eojSes" av^7]TaL Kal avvretvrjrai avappLoarco? ; 
Yidvv fxev ovv. Tpv^rj Se /cat fiaXdaKia ovk €7tI 
TTJ avTov TOVTOV )('^Xd(7€i Tc Kal dve(T€i ipeyerai, 
orav iv avru) deiXlav iixTTOifj; Ti fx'^v; KoAa/ceta 
Be /cat aveXevdepia ovx orav ns to avro tovto, to 
dvfioecSes, VTTO rep d;^Aa)Set drjpLcp ttoltj, Kal eveKa 
XP'^P'dTOjv Kal TTJs eKeivov drrX'qarias irpoTT'qXa- 
Kt,t,6fJi€VOV €611,1) e/c veov dvrl Xeovros TrWrjKov 

C yiyveadai; Kat /LtctAa, e^fj- Bai^aucria 8e /cat 
X€iporexviCL Sta ti, ot'et, ovetSo? (fiipet; rj hi dXXo 
Tt (f)'qaopL€V ■^ oTttv Ti? do-Welzes' (f>vaei exj) to tov 
^eXTLUTOv eiSo?, cooTe fir) dv hvvaadai, apx^iv Tdv 
kv avTO) dpefifidrcov, dXXd depairevetv CKelva, Kal 
Ta dajTrev/JLaTa avTa)v [jlovov 8vv7]TaL p,av6dv€iv ; 
"Eot/cev, €(f)r). OvKovv Iva /cat o toioutos' vtto 
ofjLOLOv dpxT]Tai oiovTTep 6 ^eXriGTog, SovXov avTov 

D ^afMCv Selv elvai eKeivov tov ^eXTLGTOv, exovrog iv 
avTCp TO delov dpxov, ovk cttI ^Xd^j] rfj tov SovXov 

" See Adam ad loc. on the asyndeton. 

* aiOddeLa : <■/. supra 548 e. 

" Not mentioned before, but, as Schleiermacher says, 
might be included in to. wepi tov X^ovxa. Cf. Adam ad loc. 
Or Plato may be thinking of the chimaera (//. vi. 181). 

•^ Cf. 620 c. * Cf. p. 49, note e. 

^ For the idea that it is better to be ruled by a better man 
cf. Ale. I. 135 B-c, Polit. 296 b-c, Democr. fr. 75 (Diels ii.^ 
p. 77), Xen. Mem. i. 5. 5 dovXevofra 5i rah TOiavran T^douais 
iKerevriov rovi ^eoi)s 5ea7roTG)v ayaOwv rvx^^f, Xen. Cyr. viii. 
1. 40 ^eXriovai elvai. Cf. also Laws 713 d-714 a, 627 e, 
Phaedo 62 d-e, and Laics 684 c. Cf. Ruskin, Queen of the 
Air, p. 210 (Brantwood ed., 1891) : " The first duty of every 
man in the world is to find his true master, and, for his own 
406 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

that sort of thing emancipates that dread," that huge 
and manifold beast overmuch ? " " Obviously," he 
said. " And do we not censure self-will'' and irasci- 
bility when they foster and intensify disproportion- 
ately the element of the lion and the snake '^ in us ? " 
" By all means." " And do we not reprobate luxury 
and effeminacy for their loosening and relaxation of 
this same element when they engender cowardice in 
it?" "Surely." " And flattery and illiberahty when 
they reduce this same high-spirited element under 
the rule of the mob-like beast and habituate it for 
the sake of wealth and the unbridled lusts of the 
beast to endure all manner of contumely from youth 
up and become an ape <* instead of a lion ? " " Yes, 
indeed," he said. " And why do you suppose that 
* base mechanic ' ^ handicraft is a term of reproach ? 
Shall we not say that it is solely when the best part 
is naturally weak in a man so that it cannot govern 
and control the brood of beasts Avithin him but can 
only serve them and can learn nothing but the ways of 
flattering them ? " " So it seems," he said. "Then 
is it not in order that such an one may have a hke 
government with the best man that we say he ought 
to be the slave of that best man^ who has within 

good, submit to him ; and to find his true inferior, and, for 
that inferior's good, conquer him." Inge, Christian Ethics, 
p. 252 : " It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, 
that men of intemperate minds cannot be free." Carlyle 
(apud M. Barton and O. Sitwell, Victor iana): " Surely of 
all the rights of man the right of the ignorant man to be 
guided by the wiser, to be gently or forcibly held in the true 
course by him, is the indisputablest." Plato's idea is perhaps 
a source of Aristotle's theory of slavery, though differently 
expressed. Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1254 b 16 f., Newman i. pp. 
109-110, 144 f., 378-379, ii. p. 107. Cf. also Polit. 309 a f., 
Epist. vii. 335 d, and Gomperz, Greek Thinkers, iii. p. 106. 

407 



PLATO 

OLOfiivoi Sciv dpx^crdo.i' aurdv, woTrep Spaavfjua^os 
qj€TO rovs ap)(Ofx4vovg, dXX d)s djjieivov ov TravTi 
VTTO delov Kol (jipoviixov dpx^adaL, jxaXiara fxev 
oIkgIov exovrog ev avrcv, el Se p,rj, e^codev icf)- 
earcoTOS, tva els SvvajJiLV rravres 6p.oioL a)p,ev koI 
(f)i\oi TO) avTO) KV^€pvd)fX€vo(,; Kat 6pd(x)s y', ^4*1 • 

E ^rjXol 8e ye, rjv S' eyoj, /cat o vopLos, on tolovtov 
PovAerai,^ Trdai roZs iv rfj TroXei ^vp.p,axos ojv 
Kal Tf Tcijv TTaihuiV apx^, to p^-q idv eXevdepovs 
eivai,, kojs dv iu avroTs woTrep iv TToAet TroXireiav 
Karaarrjacopev , kol to ^eXTiarov depaTrevaavres 
591 TO) nap iqplv tolovtw dvriKaraaT'^aivpev <^vXaKa 
ojjioiov Kal dpxovra iv avrcp, Kal Tore drj iXevdepov 
d(f>Upiev. ArjXoi yap, rj S' os. Hfj 8rj ovv cfj-qao- 
pL€v, c5 TXavKcov, Kal Kara riva Xoyov XvaiTeXetv 
aSiKelv 7] aKoXaaraiveLv rj ri alaxpov TTOielv, i^ wv 
TTOvTjpoTepos pkv earai, nXeico Se XRVf^^^a ■^ dXXrjv 
Tivd Svvajjiiv KeKT-^aeTat,; OvSapfj, -^ 8' os. 
Ylfj S' dSiKovvra Xavddveiv Kal prj StSorat Siktjv 

B XvaLTeXelv ; tj ovxl d pikv Xavddvoiv ert TTOvrjporepos 
yiyverat, rov Se p/r] Xavddvovros Kal KoXal,opivov 
TO pev drjpidjSes KOLpit,€raL Kal rjpepovTai, ro 
8e rjpepov iXevdepovrat, Kat oXr] tj if'VX'^ et? 
TTjv ^eXrcar-qv (fyvaiv KadiaTapivr] rtpiojTepav e^LV 

^ ^ovXeraL lamblichus and Stobaeus: /SouXeyerat ADM. 
See Adam, ad loc. 

" Of. supra 343 b-c. 

* Cf. Lysis 207 e f.. Laws 808 d, Isoc. xv. 290, Antiphon, 
fr. 61 (Diels ii.» p. 303). 

" Gf. on 591 E, p. 412, note d. 

* Cf. on 501 D, p. 74, note a. 

* The paradoxes of the Gorgias are here seriously re- 
affirmed. Gf. especially Gorg. 472 e S., 480 a-b, 505 a-b, 

408 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

himself the divine governing principle, not because we 
suppose, as Thrasymachus '^ did in the case of subjects, 
that the slave should be governed for his own harm, 
ibut on the ground that it is better for everyone to be 
governed by the divine and the intelligent, prefer- 
ably indwelUng and his own, but in default of that 
imposed from without, in order that we all so far as 
possible may be akin and friendly because our 
governance and guidance are the same ? " " Yes, 
and rightly so," he said. " And it is plain," I said, 
" that this is the purpose of the law, which is the ally 
of all classes in the state, and this is the aim of our 
control of children,^ our not leaving them free before 
we have established, so to speak, a constitutional 
government within them '^ and, by fostering the best 
element in them with the aid of the like in ourselves, 
have set up in its place a similar guardian and ruler 
in the child, and then, and then only, we leave it free." 
" Yes, that is plain," he said. " In what way,** then, 
Glaucon, and on what principle, shall we say that it 
profits a man to be unjust or licentious or do any 
shameful thing that will make him a worse man, but 
otherwise will bring him more wealth or power ? " 
" In no way," he said. " And how that it pays him 
to escape detection in wrongdoing and not pay the 
penalty * ? Or is it not true that he who evades 
detection becomes a still worse man, while in the one 
who is discovered and chastened the brutish part is 
lulled and tamed and the gentle part liberated, and 
the entire soul, returning to its nature at the best, 
attains to a much more precious condition in acquir- 

509 A f. Cf. also Vol. I. p. 1S7, 380 b ol 5^ ilivlvavro Koka^o- 
fuvoi, and Laws 728 c ; and for the purpose of punishment. 
What Plato Said, p. 495, on Protag. 324 a-b. 

409 



PLATO 

Xafi^dveL, aco(f>po(Tvvriv re /cat SiKaioavvrjv fX€Ta 
(f)povrja€a)9 KTCoixevq, tj awfia lg)(vv re koI koXXos 
fjcera uyieta? Xafif^di'ov , roaovTco oawTrep ^v)(y] 
acofiaros nixicorepa; YlavTairaai fxev ovv, €(f)r]. 

C OvKovv 6 ye vovv e^cov Trdvra rd avrov els rovro 
^vvTCLvas ^Lcoaerai, Trpcorov fiev rd fjiaO'^fxara 
Tificov, a TOLavTrjv avrov rrjv ipvxT]v dne pydaer ai, 
rd Se aAA' drifid^wv; ArjXov, e</>7^. "ETretra y', 
eiTTOv, rrjv rod adyfxaros e^i^v Kai rpo(f)t]v ovx ottcos 
rfj drjpia)8ei /cat dXoyco rjhovfj eTTirpetjias evravda 
rerpaiifxevos ^■^cret, dAA' ovhe npos vyUiav ^Xeiroiv, 
ovBe rovro irpea^eviov, ottcos laxvpos rj vyL-fjs rj 
KaXos earai, edv fx-q Kal aoj^povrqaeiv fieXXr) (xtt' 

D avrdJv, dAA' del rr)v ev rw aiLpiari dpjxoviav rrjs 
ev rfj iffvxfj eveKa ^vix(f>covLas dpfiorrofxevos (fiavel- 
rai.^ HavrdTTaai fxev ovv, etfjif], edvTrep fxeXXr) rfj 
dXrjdeia fxovatKOs elvai. Ovkovv, elTTov, Kal rrjv 

^ (paveirai lamblichus : (paivTjTai ADM, (paiverai pr. F. 
Bracketed by Hermann. 



" The a fortiori argument from health of body to health 
of soul is one of the chief refutations of the immoralists. 
Cf. supra 445 d-e f., Gorg. 479 b, Crito 47 d-e. For the 
supreme importance of the soul cf. on 589 e. 

* Cf. Gorg. 507 d, Isoc. Epht.vx. 9, Xen. Ages. 7. 1. 

« Health in the familiar skolion (cf. Gorg. 451 e, Laws 
631 c, 661 A, 728 d-e, Enthydem. 279 a-b, Meno 87 e, Soph. 
frag. 356) is proverbially the highest of ordinary goods, 
Cf. Gorg. 452 a-b, Crito 47 d, Eryxias 393 c. In fact, for 
Plato as for modern " scientific " ethics, health in the higher 
sense — the health of the soul — may be said to be the 
ultimate sanction. Cf. Vol. I. Introd. pp. xvi and xxi. 
Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 26, Idea of Good in Plato's 
Republic, pp. 192-194 f. But an idealistic ethics sometimes 
expresses itself in the paradox that " not even health," 

410 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

ing sobriety and righteousness together with -v^isdom, 
than the body" does when it gains strength and 
beauty conjoined with health, even as the soul is 
more precious than the body ? " " Most assuredly," 
he said. " Then the wise man will bend all his 
endeavours ^ to this end throughout his life ; he will, 
to begin viith, prize the studies that will give this 
quality to his soul and disprize the others." " Clearly," 
he said. " And then," I said, " he not only will not 
abandon the habit and nurture of his body to the 
brutish and irrational pleasure and h've with his face 
set in that direction, but he will not even make health 
his chief aim," nor give the first place to the ways 
of becoming strong or healthy or beautiful unless 
these things are hkely to bring with them soberness 
of spirit, but he will always be found attuning the 
harmonies of his body for the sake of the concord in 
his soul.'* " " By all means," he replied, " if he is to 
be a true musician.* " " And will he not deal like^vise 

highest of earthly goods, is of any value compared with 
the true interests of the soul. Cf. Laws 661 c-e ff., 728 i>-e, 
744 A, 960 D, Laches 195 c; and Arnold, Culture and 
Anarchy, p. 17 " Bodily health and vigour . . . have a 
more real and essential value . . . but only as they are 
more intimately connected with a perfect spiritual condition 
than wealth and population are." This idea may be the 
source of the story from which the Christian Fathers and 
the Middle Ages derived much edification, that Plato in- 
tentionally chose an unhealthy site for the Academy in 
order to keep down the flesh. Cf. Aelian, Var. Hist. ix. 
10, perhaps the first mention, Porphvry, De abstinentia i. 
36, Zeller, Phil. d. Gr. ii. 1.^ 416, n. 2; Camden on Cam- 
bridge, Gosse, Gossip in a Library, p. 23, and Himerius, 
Eel. iii. 18 (Diels ii.' p. 18) iK03i> de ivbau aihua ArifudxpiTOi, 
tva vyiaiyr] ra Kpeirroia. 

" Cf. What Plato Said, p. 485, on Laches 188 d. 

» Cf. Phaedo 61 a. 

411 



PLATO 

iv Tjj Tcov ■)(p7][jidTa)v KT-qa€L ^wra^tr re /cat 
^vfMcfxoviav ; Kal tov oyKov tov ttXt^Oovs ovk 
iKTrXr^TTO/jLevos vtto tov rwv ttoXXcov jxaKapicrixov 
aireipov av^ijaei, arripavTa KaKo. cxcov; Ovk 
E otojxaiy e(f>r]. 'AAA aTro^AeVoiv ye, eiTTOv, Trpos 
TTjv iv avTcp 7ToXiT€iav Kal (f)v\drrtov , pLiq tl 
TrapaKivfj avrov rcjv eKeZ Bid vXrjdos ovatas rj 8i* 
oAtyoTT^ra, ovtcos Kv^epvcbv Trpoad-qaei /cat dva- 
Atocrei rrjs ovatas Kad' oaov av otos r* ^. K-OfxiSfj 
fiev ovv, €(f)r). 'AAAa firji' Kal rifids ye, et? 

592 ravTov aTTo^XeTTcov, tcov fxev /xe^e'^et /cat yewaerai 
€Kcov, a? dv rjyrJTac dfieivo) avrov TTOiiqaeLV, dg 8' 

I dv Xvaeiv rrjv VTrdp^ovaav e^iv, ^eu^erat tSia /cat 
hrjp,oaia. Ovk dpa, €cf)r], rd ye TToAtrt/ca iOeX-qaet, 
rrpdrreiv, edvirep rovrov Krjhrjrai. N')7 rov Kvva, 
"^v 8' eyco, ev ye rfj eavrov TroAet /cat fidXa, ov 

' Cf. p. 355, note d, on 576 d. 

* byKov : cf. Horace's use of acervus, Shorey on Odes ii. 
2.24. 

" Cf. Vol. I. p. 163, note (7, Newman i. p. 136. For the 
evils of wealth cf. Laws 831 c ff., 870 b-c. Rep. 434 b, 
550 D ff., etc. 

'' This analogy pervades the Republic. Cf. 579 c and 
p. 240, note b, on 544 d-e, Introd. Vol. I. p. xxxv. Cf. Clxnrep 
iv ir6\fi 590 E, 605 b. For the subordination of everything 
to the moral life cf. also 443 d and p. 509, note d, on 618 c. 

* As in the state, extremes of wealth and poverty are to 
be avoided. Cf. What Plato Said, p. 645, on Laws 915 b, 

f Almost Aristotle's use of ?fis. 

» Cf. pp. 52-55 on 496 d-e. The later schools debated the 
question whether the "sage" would take part in politics. 
Cf. Seneca, Be otio, xxx. 2 f. and Von Arnim, Stoic. Vet. 
Frag. 1. p. 62. 22 f. : " Zenon ait : accedet ad rempublicam j 
(sapiens), nisi si quid impedierit;" ibid. iii. p. 158. 31 if. : 1 
" consentaneum est huic naturae, ut sapiens velit gerere et 1 
administrare rempublicam atque, ut e natura vivat, uxorem 
adiungere et velle ex ea liberos; " ibid. p. 174. 32: " negant 
412 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

with the ordering and harmonizing of his jKJssessions ? 
He will not let himself be dazzled " by the felicitations 
of the multitude and pile up the mass * of his wealth 
\^■ithout measure,*^ invohing himself in measureless 
ills." " No, I think not," he said. " He will rather," 
I said, " keep his eyes fixed on the constitution in 
his soul,<* and taking care and watching lest he disturb 
anythingthere eitherby excess or deficiency ofwealth,* 
vri\\ so steer his course and add to or detract from his 
wealth on this principle, so far as may be. " " Precisely 
so," he said. " And in the matter of honours and office 
too this will be his guiding principle : He -will gladly 
take part in and enjoy those which he thinks A^ill make 
him a better man, but in pubhc and private life he 
will shun those that may overthrow the established 
habit' of his soul." " Then, if that is his chief con- 
cern," he said, " he will not •wilUngly take part in 
politics." " " Yes, by the dog,'' " said I, " in his own 

nostri sapientem ad quamlibet rempublicam accessurum ; " 
ibid. 37 ff. : " praeterea, cum sapient! rempublicam ipso 
dignam dedimus, id est mundum, non est extra rempublicam, 
etiamsi recesserit; " ibid. iii. p. 157. 40 ff. hronevov 6^ toitois 
i'lrdpxfiv Kal to iro\iTei'€a6ai tov ao<pcv /cat /wiXi(rr' ip rats roiau- 
rcus iroXfTei'atj toTs ifi(f>aivov<yai^ tivo. irpoKOirriv irpbs rds reXeiaj 
woXireias; ibid. p. 172. 18 f. devrepop Sk t6p dirb tvs iroXireias, 
To\iT€Vfffdai yap Kara top irporiyovfiepop \oyop . . . ; ibid. 173. 
19 ff. ^tpafiep 3' ori koX iroKiTevecdai kolto. rbp irporjyovfxfpov \6yov 
(Hop (ffTi. fir] ■ro\i.TfV€ff0ai 5^ iap ri <icwXi''t;> /cat fiaXurr' <iv> 
lurfSfP w<t>i\elv fjL4\\rj ttjp irarpida, Kipdijpovs di irapaKo\ov6ftp 
vTo\an^dpT] fieydXovs Kal x^^foi^J ^f t^J voXiTelas ; ibid. 
p. 175. 3 f. iro\iTeveff0ai ipaal t6p <ro(f)bp Slp /jlt) ti kwXvtj, ws 
^i7<ri XpvffLiriros ip irpwrtp -jrept jStwf ; ibid. 6 ff. Xpvcn-WTOi 51 
xdXti' (p T(fi lie pi 'Frp-opiKTJs ■ypd<pwp, oihw fnjTopfvaeip Kal 
■ro\iTevf<r$ai top ao<f>6p, ibs koX toC tXoOtov 6ptos Ayadov, Kal 
TTJi S6^r}s Kal TTJi i-ydai. 

* C/. on 399 E, Phaedr. 228 b, Gorg. 466 c, 461 a, 482 b, 
Phaedo 98 e, supra 567 e. 

413 



PLATO 



fieuToi taojs ev ye t?^ TrarptSt, iav fxrj deia rt? 

^vfi^fj rvxt). Mavdavo), e^rj- iv fj vvv Si'qXdoixev 

ot/ct^ovre? TToAei Aeyeis", rfj iv Xoyois KeL^evrj, 

B €7761 yrjs ye ovSafMov olfxai avr-qv elvai. 'AAA', rjv 



" deia . . . Tvxv- So dela ixoipa. is often used to account 
for an exception, e.g. supra 493 a, Laws 875 c, 642 c, Meno 
99 E, etc. Cf. deXov . . . itaipuifj.ev \6yov 492 e. 

* Lit. "in words." This is one of the most famous 
passages in Plato, and a source of the idea of the City of 
God among both Stoics and Christians. Cf. Marc. Aurel. 
ix. 29 fx-qd^ TT]v IlXdrwfos iroXireiav ^Xirtfe, Justin Martyr's 
iirl yijs Siarplfiovcnv dW iv ovpa.vi^ iroXiTe^ovrai., which recalls 
Philippians iii. 20 rjfiCiv 5^ rb iroKirevfxa iv ovpavols virapxei, 
and also Ueb. xii. 22, xi. 10 and 16, xiii. 14, Eph. ii. 19, Gal. 
iv. 26, Rev. iii. 12 and xxi. 2 ff. Ackermann, Das Christ- 
liche bei Platon, p. 24, compares Luke xvii. 21 "the 
kingdom of God is within you." Cf. also John xviii. 36. 
Havet, Le Christ > an i sine et ses origines, p. 207, says, " Platon 
dit de sa Republique precisement ce qu'on a dit plus tard 
du royaume de Dieu, qu'elle n'est pas de ce monde." Cf. 
also Caird, Evolution of Theology in Greek Philosophy, ii. 
p. 1 70, Harnack, Hist, of Dogma (tr. Buchanan), vol. i. p. 332, 
ii. pp. 73-74 and 338, Proclus, Comm. % 352 (Kroll i. 16); 
Pater, Alarius the Epicurean, p. 212 " Marcus Aurelius 
speaks often of that City on high, of which all other cities 
are but single habitations . , .," p. 213 " . . . the vision 
of a reasonable, a divine order, not in nature, but in the 
condition of human affairs, that unseen Celestial City, 
Uranopolis, Callipolis. . . "; ibid. p. 158 "thou hast 
been a citizen in this wide city," and pp. 192-193. Cf. 
further Inge, Christian Ethics, pp. 104-105, " let us fly 
hence to our dear country, as the disciples of Plato have 
repeated one after another. There are a few people who 
are so well adjusted to their environment that they do 
not feel, or rarely feel, this nostalgia for the infinite 
. . ." Lamartine, in his poem, " Isolement " {apud Faguet, 
Dix-Neuvieme Siecle, p. 89) beautifully expresses this nost- 
algia for the home of the ideal : 

4,14 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

city he certainly will, yet perhaps not in the city of 
his birth, except in some providential conjuncture." " 
" I understand," he said ; " you mean the city whose 
estabhshment we have described, the city whose 
home is in the ideal ; ^ for I think that it can be 
found nowhere on earth."" "Well," said I, " per- 

La, je m'enivrerais a la source oil j 'aspire ; 
La, je retrouverais et I'espoir et I'amour, 
Et ce bien ideal que toute ame desire, 
Et qui n'a pas de nom au terrestre sejour. 

Likewise the lovely sonnet of Du Bellay which in an English 
version might run as follows : 

If our brief life is to eternity 

But as a span ; if our ephemeral sun. 

Gilding the shadows that before it flee. 

Chases our days to darkness one by one. 

Why, O my soul, pent in this prison obscure. 

Wilt thou in these dim shadows take delight. 

When to soar upward to the eternal pure 

Luminous heavens thy wings are spread for flight? 

There is the good for which all hearts do burn. 

There is the peace for which all creatures yearn. 

There is the love supreme without a stain. 

There too is pleasure that is not bought with pain. 

There upon heaven's dome and outmost shore 

Thou'lt know the ideas and recognize once more 

The beauty whose image here thou must adore. 

Somewhat different is the Stoic idea of a world state and 
of the sage as citizen of the world, e.g. Marc. Aurel. iv. 4, 
Sen. De otio 31, Cic. Nat. deor. ii. 62 (154). Cf. Newman, 
Aristot. Pol. i. p. 92; also ibid. pp. 87-88. For the identi- 
fication of the TriXtj with philosophy cf. Diog. Laert. vi. 15 
and vii. 40, Lucian, Hermotim. 22, Sale of Lives 17, Ver. 
Hist. 17, Proclus i. 16 (Kroll). Diogenes Laertius, ii. 7, 
reports that, when Anaxagoras was reproached for not con- 
cerning himself with the aff"airs of his country, he replied, 
" Indeed, I am greatly concerned with my country," and 
pointed to heaven. 
• C/. 499C-D. 

415 



PLATO 

S* eyo), iv ovpavco tacos TTapdSeiyfjLa ava/cetrat ru) 
^ovXoixivcp opdv /cat opcovri iavrov KaToiKtll,eiv' 
Siatpepet Se ovSev, etre ttov earrtv eire earai' ra 
yap ravT7]s piovrjs av vpa^etev, dXXr]s 8e ouSe/xta?. 
Et/co? y', €(f>r). 

« Cf. Theaet. 176 e, which Wilamowitz, Platon, ii. p. 179 
says must refer to the Republic, Laws 739 d-e, 746 b, and 
What Plato Said, p. 458, on Euthyphro 6 e. 



416 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK IX 

haps there is a pattern " of it laid up in heaven for 
him who -wishes to contemplate it and so beholding 
to constitute himsejf its citizen.* But it makes no 
diiference whether it exists now or ever will come 
into being." The politics of this city only Nvill be 
his and of none other." " That seems probable," he 
said. 

•* iavrbf KaroiKi^eiv : Adam " found a city in himself." 
See his note ad loc. Cf. Jebb on Soph. Oed. Col. 1004. 

' Cf. 499 c-D, 472 b-e, and What Plato Said, p. 564. 



2e 417 



I 

595 I. Kat fMrjv, ■^v 8* iyo), ttoAAo. (jlcv Kal dXXa Trepi 
avTTJs ivvoo), d}s TTavTos apa fxdWov opOoJS coki- 
^Ofjuev rrjv ttoXlv, ovx 'qKicrra 8e ivOvfirjOeis irepi 
7roL7](T€cos Xeyco. To ttoZov; e^'*?- To p,r]BapLfj 
TTapahex^adai, avr-qs oarj fjLijxrjTiK-q' Travros yap 
[jLdWov ov TTapaSe/crea vvv Kal ivapyearcpov, cos 
B ifjiol So/cet, (jiaiverai, iTreihr^ x^P''^ e/cacrra oi- 
■^p-qrai ra rrjs ^v^rj? eXSr). Ilcbs Xeyeis; ^9 p-€v 
Trpos vfxds elpr^adai — ov yap fiov KarepeXre irpos 
Tovs Ti]s rpayoiSias TTOLrjTas Kal roiis aXXovs 
airavras tovs fjLipLrjrtKovs — Xco^rj eoiK€v eivai, 
TTavra to, roiavra ttjs tcuv olkovovtcdv biavoias, oaoi 
fXT) exovat (f)dpfjLaKov to eiSeVat aura ota rvyxavei 
ovra. Ylfj h-q, e<f)rj, Siavoovfievos Xeyeis; Pr]Teov, 
•^v 8' eyo), KairoL (f)iXia ye ris /xe Kal aiBoJS €k 

<» In Book III. On the whole question see Introd. pp. Ixi- 
Ixiii. Max. Tyr. Diss. 23 EZ KaXQs U\dTwv"0/xripot' ttjs IloXiTdas 
irapriT-qaaTO, and 32 Ec icrri Kad' "Opiripov aipecns, Strabo i. 
2 § 3. Athenaeus v. 12. 187 sajs that Plato himself in the 
Symposium wrote worse things than the poets whom he 
banishes. Friedlander, Platon, i. p. 138, thinks that the 
return to the poets in Book X. is intended to justify the 
poetry of Plato's dialogues. On the banishment of the 



BOOK X 

I. " And truly," I said, " many other considerations 
assure me that we were entirely right in our organiza- 
tion of the state, and especially, I think, in the matter 
of poetry.*" " WTiat about it ? " he said. "In re- 
fusing to admit* at all so much of it as is imitative'^; 
for that it is certainly not to be received is, I think, 
still more plainly apparent now that we have dis- 
tinguished the several parts ** of the soul." " What 
do you mean ? " " WTiy, between ourselves*' — for 
you will not betray me to the tragic poets and all 
other imitators — that kind of art seems to be a cor- 
ruption^ of the mind of all listeners who do not possess 
as an antidote' a knowledge of its real nature." 
" What is your idea in sapng this ? " he said. " I 
must speak out," I said, " though a certain love and 

poets and Homer cf, also Minucius Felix (Halm), pp. 32-33, 
Tertullian (Oehler), lib. ii. c. 7, Olympiodorus, Hermann vi. 
p. 367, Augustine, Z)« civ. Dei, ii. xiv. 

* Supra 394 d, 568 b, and on 398 a-b, in/ra 607 a. 

* In the narrower sense. Cf. Vol. I. p. 224, note e, on 
392 D, and What Plato Said, p. 561. 

<* Lit. " species." Cf. 435 b ff., 445 c, 580 d, 588 b S^ 
Phaedr. 271 d. Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 42. 

* Cf. Gorg. 462 b, Protag. 309 a, 339 e. 
' Cf. 605 c, Meno 91 c. Laws 890 b. 

» (pipfiaKov : this passage is the source of Plutarch's view 
of literature in education; see Quomodo adolescens poeta* 
wtdire debeat \5 o, 

419 



PLATO 

TraiSoj e)(ovaa rrepl 'Ofi'qpov aTTOKcoXvei Xeyeiv. 
C eoLK€ fxev yap tojv KaXivv dnaivTcov tovtcuv tojv 
rpayiKcov irpcoTOs StSacr/caAoj re /cat rjyepicjv 
yeveadai,. dAA' ov yap irpo ye ttjs dXrjdeLas 
Tifi-qreos dvrjp, dAA', o Xeyco, prjreov. Wdvv fxev 
ouv, €^17. "AKove Stj, jjid?^ov Se dTTOKpivov. 
'Epcora. ^lipLrjaLv oXa)s exots dv fxoL elnelv 6 ri 
7TOT eartv; oi)Se yap roc avros ttovv tc ^vwod), 
TL ^ovXerat etvaL. ^H ttov dp*, €(f)r), iydi avv- 
voriaoi. Ovhev ye, rjv 8' eyd), dronov, eiret ttoAAci 
596 TOL o^vrepov ^XerTovrcov dp.fiXvrepov opcvvres 
TTporepoL €l8ov. "EiGtlv, e(f)7], ovTCos' dXXd aov 
TTapovTOS oyS' dv TTpodvpurjdrjvai olos re elrfv elirelv, 
el Ti /xot KaracfjaLveraL' dAA' avros opa. BouAet 
ouv ivdevSe dp^copeOa eTTicjKOTTOVvres , e/c Tr]s el- 
codvtas fiedoSov; etSog yap ttov tl ev eKaarov 
eliiidafxev ndeadai irepi eKaara rd TToXXd, ols 

" Isoc. ii. 48-49 is perhaps imitating this. For Homer as 
a source of tragedy cf. also 598 d, 605 c-d, 607 a, 602 b, 
Tlieaet. 152 e, schol. Trendelenburg, pp. 75 ff. ; Drj^den, 
Discourse on Epic Poetry : " The origin of the stage was from 
the epic poem . . . those episodes of Homer which were 
proper for the state the poets amplified each into an action," 
etc. Cf. Aristot. Poet. 1448 b 35 f., Diog. Laert. iv. 20, and 
supra 393 a ff. 

* Cf. What Plato Said, p. 532, on Pliaedo 91 c, Aristot. 
Eth. Nic, 1096 a 16 &iJi(poiv yap 6vtolv <f>i\oiv ocriov Trpon-fidu ttjv 
dX'^deiav, Henri-Pierre Cazac, Polemique d'Aristote contre la 
tlieorie platonicienne des Idees, p. 11, n. : " Platon lui-meme, 
critiquant Homere, . . . fait une semblable reflexion, ' On 
doit plus d'egards k la verite qu'a un homme.' Cousin 
croit, apres Camerarius, que c'est la I'origine du mot celebre 
d'Aristote." Cf. St. Augustine, De civ. Dei x. 30 " h^mini 
praeposuit veritatem." 

' For ^ irov cf. Phaedo 84 d. 

** Perhaps a slight failure in Attic courtesy. Cf. Laws 

420 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

reverence for Homer ° that has possessed me from a 
boy would stay me from speaking. For he appears 
to have been the first teacher and beginner of all 
these beauties of tragedy. Yet all the same we must 
not honour a man above truth,* but, as I say, speak 
our minds." " By all means," he said. " Listen, 
then, or rather, answer my question." " Ask it," he 
said. " Could you tell me in general what imitation 
is ? For neither do I myself quite apprehend what it 
■would be at." "It is likely, then,<^ " he said. " that / 
should apprehend ! " " It would be nothing strange," 
said I, "since it often happens that the dimmer vision 
sees things in advance of the keener.'* " " That is so," 
he said ; " but in vour presence I could not even be 
eager to try to state anything that appears to me, but 
do you yourself consider it." " Shall we, then, start 
the inquiry at this point by our customary procedure * ? 
,We are in the habit, I take it, of positing a single idea 
or form ' in the case of the various multiplicities to 

715 D-E, and for 6^vT€poy ^\exbvTui> 927 b, Euthydem. 281 D, 
Rep. 404 A, Themist. Oral. ii. p. 32 c. Cf. the sajing roWd/ct 
Kai Ktiirovpoi dvrip fidXa Kaipiov elirfy. 

' Cf. Phaedo 76 D, 100 b, Phihb. 16 d, »upra 479 e, 
Ihompson on Meno 12 d. See Zeller, Phil. d. Gr. ii. 1. 
p. 660. The intentional simplicity of Plato's positing of 
the concept here {cf. 597 a), and his transition from the 
concept to the " idea," has been mistaken for a primitive 
aspect of his thought by many interpreters. It is quite un- 
critical to use Aristot. Met. 991 b 6 ff. to prove that Plato's 
"later" theorj- of ideas did not recognize ideas of artefacts, 
and therefore that this passage represents an earlier phase 
of the theory. He deliberately expresses the theory as 
simply as possible, and a manufactured object suits his 

fiurpose here as it does in Crafyl. 389. See also supra, 
ntrod. pp. xxii-xxiii. 

' " Forms " with a capital letter is even more misleading 
than " ideas." 

421 



PLATO 

ravTOv ovofxa iTTKhepojjiev. -q ov fxavddveis; May- 
ddvco. Qwixev S?) Kal vvv o Tt, ^ovXei rwv ttoAAwv. 

B olov, el deXeis, TToAAat ttov elai /cAtvat Acat rpaTre^ai. 
Hcbs 8' ov; 'AAAo, tSe'ai ye ttov vrept ravra rd 
OKevrj 8uo, ju,ia ju.ei' KXlvrjs, fxla 8e rpaTrelprjs. Nai. 
OwKow /cat elcodajxev Xiyeiv, on 6 Srjixiovpyos 
CKarepov rov uKevovg npos rrjv ISeav ^XeTrcov 
ovroi TTOiel 6 fxeu rds /cAtVa?, o 8e to.? rpaireL^as, 
als Tjixets xpojpieda, /cat raAAa Kara ravra; ov 
yap TTOV r-qv ye Iheav avrrjv hrjfxiovpyel ovSeis rajv 
hripiiovpywv' ttcos ydp; OuSa/icu?. 'AAA' opa Brj 

C Kal rovSe riva KaXeis rov SrjfXLOvpyov. Top ttoZov; 
"O? rravra iroiel, oaaTrep els eKaaros rtbv ;^et/30- 
re^viJov. Aeivov riva Xeyets Kal davpiaarov dvopa. 
OvTTU) ye, dXXd rd^o. pdXXov (jnqaeLs. o avros yap 
ovros p(etpoTe;)^vrjs" ov jxovov Trdvra olos re OKevq 
TTOLTJcraL, dXXd Kal rd e/c rrjg yrjg d>v6p,eva anavra 
TTOieX Kal l^cpa Trdvra epyd^erai, rd re dXXa /cat 
eavrovy Kal Trpos rovrois yrjv Kal ovpavov /cat 
6eovs Kal Trdvra rd ev ovpavco Kal rd ev "Aioov 
VTTo yrjs aTTavra epydt,eraL. Yldvv davpiaarov, 

D €0>?, Xeyeis aocjiiarrjv . ^ KTnareZs ; rjv 8 eyo)' 
/cat /xot 61776* rd rrapdrrav ovk dv aoi hoKel etvat 

" Cf. Cratyl. 389 a-b. There is no contradiction, as 
many say, with 472 d. 

* Cf. Emerson, The. Poet : " and therefore the rich poets — 
as Homer, Chaucer, Shakespeare and Raphael — have no 
limits to their riches except the limits of their lifetime, and 
resemble a mirror carried through the streets ready to render 
an image of every created thing." {Cf. 596 d-e KaTowrpov 
irepi<j)ipeLv and Julian, Or. v. 1()3 d.) Empedocles, fr. 23 
(Diels i.3 pp. 234.-235) : 

d)S 5' birinav ypacpies . . . 

d^vSped re KTi^oi/re Kal dc^pas ijdi ywaiKcts . , , 

422 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

-v^ hich we give the same name. Do you not under- 
md ? " "I do." " In the present case, then, let us 
ike any multiplicity you please : for example, there 
are many couches and tables." " Of course." " But 
hese utensils imply, I suppose, only two ideas or 
rms, one of a couch and one of a table." " Yes." 
" And are we not also in the habit of saying that the 
craftsman who produces either of them fixes his eyes " 
on the idea or form, and so makes in the one case the 
couches and in the other the tables that we use, and 
similarly of other things ? For surely no craftsman 
makes the idea itself. How could he ? " " By no 
means." " But now consider what name you would 
give to this craftsman." " WTiat one ? " " Him who 
makes all the things ^ that all handicraftsmen severally 
produce." " A truly clever and wondrous man you 
tell of." " Ah, but wait,*^ and you will say so indeed, 
for this same handicraftsman is not only able to make 
all implements, but he produces all plants and 
animals, including himself ,'* and thereto earth and 
heaven and the gods and all things in heaven and in 
Hades imder the earth." " A most marvellous 
sophist," " he said. " Are you incredulous ? " said 
I. " Tell me, do you deny altogether the possibiUty 

* Climax beyond climax. Cf. on 508 e, p. 104, note c. 

* It is a tempting error to refer this to God, as I once did, 
and as Wilamowitz, Platon, i. p. 601 does. So Cudworth, 
True Int4l. System of the Universe, vol. ii. p. 70: " Lastly, 
he is called 5s trdtrra ri, re dXXa ep-jdjerot. «rat iavrbv, ' he 
that causeth or produceth both all other things, and even 
himself.' " But the producer of everything, including him- 
self, is the imitator generalized and then exemplified by the 
painter and the poet. Cf. Soph. 234 a-b. 

« Eurip. Hippol. 921 deinp co<pi<Trr)v elroj. 

423 



PLATO 

Totovros SrjixLovpyog , r) rivl fjLev rpoTTco yeveaOav 
av Tovrcov aTravTOjv Troirjriq?, tlvl he ovk av; r) 
OVK alaOdvei, on kolv avTOs 0I69 t et-qs iravra 
Tavra TTOirjaai rpoTTco yc rtvi; Kat tLs, e^rj, 6 
rpoTTOS ovTOs; Ov p^iaAeTrds, ■^v 8' iyto, aAAa 
7ro?^axfj Kat ra^v hrjpnovpyovfxevos' TaxLcrra Be 
7TOV, ei QeXeis Xa^oiv KaroTrrpov TTepi(f}epeiv Trav- 
is' Taxfj' Taxv p.ev tJXlov TTOLiqaeLS Kal ra ev ro) 
ovpavw, raxv Se yijv, ra^v Se aavTov re /cat 
TaAAa ^oia /cat <JKevr) /cat cf)VTa /cat Travra oo-a 
vvv Br] eXeyero. Nat, e(f)rj, (f)aiv6fi€va, ov p^evroi 
ovTa ye ttov ttj aXrjQeia. KaAcDs, rjv 8' eych, /cat 
ei? Beov ep;(et to) Xoyco. rdv tolovtojv yap, olfxai, 
Br^fxiovpyoiv /cat 6 l,o}ypd(f)Os ecrrtV. 7^ ydp; OcDs 
yap ov; 'AAAa (f)'ijaeLS ovk dXrjdrj, olpiat, avrov 
TTOieZv a TTOiet. /catVoi rpoTro) ye rivi Kal 6 t,oi- 

" Kal tLs is sceptical as in Aristoph. Acharn. 86. 
* Art is deception. Diels ii.« p. 339, Dialex. 3 (10) eV 
yap TpayuiSoTroug, Kal ^ojypacpiq. dcrris <k€> TrXetcrra e^aTrarri 
S/jLOia Tois aXridiiiois noiewv, oOros dpicrros, Xen. Mem. iii. 10. 1 
ypa<piKri icrriv eiKacria tQv 6pwfj.^vo}v. Cf. Plut. Quomodo 
adolescens 17 r-18 a on painting and poetry. Tliere are 
many specious resemblances between Plato's ideas on art 
and morality and those of the " lunatic fringe " of Platonism. 
Cf. Jane Harrison, Ancient Art and Ritual, pp. 21-22, 
Charles F. Andrews, Mahatma Gandhi'' s Ideas, p. 332. 
Cf. further R. G. Collingwood, " Plato's Philosophy of Art," 
Mind, .34, pp. 154-172. Stewart, Plato'' s Doctrine of Ideas, 
p. 60, fancifully says : " Between the lines of Plato's criticism 
of bad art here, as copying the particular, we must read the 
doctrine that true art copies or in some way sets forth the 
idea." But the defenders of poetry have always taken this 
line. Cf. Hartley Coleridge's sonnet : 

The vale of Tempe had in vain been fair 

if the sight inspired 

Saw only what the visual organs show. 
If heaven-born phantasy no more required 
424 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

of such a craftsman, or do you admit that in a sense 
there could be such a creator of all these things, and 
in another sense not ? Or do you not perceive that 
you yourself would be able to make all these things 
in a way ? " " And in what way," I ask you," he 
said. " There is no difficulty," said I, " but it is 
something that the craftsman can make everywhere 
and quickly. You could do it most quickly if you 
should choose to take a mirror and carry it about 
everywhere. You will speedily produce the sun and 
all the things in the sky, and speedily the earth and 
yourself and the other animals and implements and 
plants and all the objects of which we just now spoke." 
"Yes," he said," the appearance of them, but not the 
reahty and the truth." " Excellent," said I, " and 
you come to the aid of the argument opportunely. 
For I take it that the painter too belongs to this class 
of producers, does he not ? " "Of course." " But 
you will say, I suppose, that his creations are not real 
and true. And yet, after a fashion, the painter *" too 

Than what within the sphere of sense may grow. 
The beauty to perceive of earthly things 
The mounting soul must heavenward prune her wings. 
Mrs. Browning, " Aurora Leigh " : 
. . . Art's the nature of what is 
Behind this show. If this world's show were all. 
Then imitation would be all in art. 

William Temple, Plato and Christianity, p. 89 : " In the 
tenth book of the Republic he says that, whereas the artificer 
in making any material object imitates the eternal idea, an 
artist only imitates the imitation (595 a-598 d) ; but in Book 
V. he said that we do not blame an artist who depicts a face 
more beautiful than any actual human face either is or ever 
could be (472 d)." But this does not affect Plato's main 
point here, that the artist imitates the "real" world, not 
the world of ideas. The artist's imitation may fall short of 
or better its model. But the model is not the (Platonic) idea. 

425 



PLATO 

ypd(f)os kXlvtjv TTOiel. t] ov; Nat, e^T^, <j)awoix4vT)v 
ye Koi ovTos. 
597 II. Ti §e o kXivottoios ; ovk aprt fxevroi, eAeye?, 
OTL ov TO etSo? TTOLet, o St] (ftajxcv elvai o earn 
kXlvt], dAAa kXIvt]v rivd; "EAeyoi' ydp. Ovkovv 
el fjLrj o €GTL TTOiei, ovk av to ov ttoloZ, dAAa ti 
Toiovrov olov TO ov, ov Se ov- reXecos 8e elvai ov 
TO Tou KXivovpyov epyov rj dXXov tlvos )(€ipo- 
rexvov et ti? (jiairj, KLvhvvevei ovk av dX7]drj Xiyeiv; 
OvKovv, €(f)r], ws y dv So^eie Tot? irepX rovs 
TotovaSe Xoyovs SiarpL^ovaiv. M.rjSev dpa davpid- 
t,(x>pLev, el /cat tovto dpivSpov ri rvyxdvei, ov Trpos 

B dXi^OeLav. Mi) ydp. BouAet ovv, ecfirjv, err* avrcov 
rovTcov ^-qri^acopiev rov pupL-qTriv tovtov, tls ttot 
eariv; Et /SouAet, ecj^rj. Ovkovv rpiTrai Tive^ 
/cAtvat avrai yiyvovrai' pita pev tj iv rij (f>vaei 
ovaa, rjv (f)aLpiev dv, cu? eycopai, deov epydaaadai. 
rj TLv* dXXov; OuSeVa, olpiaL. Mta Se ye rjv 6 
reKTOJV. Nat, €<^rj. Mta 8e t]v 6 ^coypd(f)og. -^ 
ydp; "Karctj. TLcoypd^os h-q, kXivottoios, Beds, 
rpels ovTOL eTnardrai rpiaiv elheai kXlvwv. Nat 

C rpeZs. *0 pLev Srj Oeos, etre ovk e^ovXero, eXre tls 

" 6 Ian belongs to the terminology of ideas. Cf. Phaedo 
74 D, 75 B, 75 D, Eep. 507 b. 

* Te\4u)s , . . ov : cf. supra 477 a, and Soph. 248 e TracreXiSs 
6vri. 

' An indirect reference to Plato and his school like the 
"friends of ideas" in Soph. 248 a. 

'' Cf. 597 c, 598 a, 501 b (pvaei, Phaedo 103 b, Parmen. 
132 D. 

4£6 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

makes a couch, does he not ? " " Yes," he said 
" the appearance of one, he too." 

II. " \Miat of the cabinet-maker ? Were you not 
just now sapng that he does not make the idea or 
form which we say is the real couch, the couch in 
itself," but only some particular couch ? " " Yes, I 
was." " Then if he does not make that which really 
is, he could not be said to make real being but some- 
thing that resembles real being but is not that. But 
if anyone should say that being in the complete sense * 
belongs to the work of the cabinet-maker or to that 
of any other handicraftsman, it seems that he would 
say what is not true." " That would be the view," 
he said, " of those who are versed" in this kind of 
reasoning." " We must not be surprised, then, if 
this too is only a dim adumbration in comparison with 
reahty." " No, we must not." " Shall we, then, use 
these very examples in our quest for the true nature 
of this imitator ? " " If you please," he said. " We 
get, then, these three couches, one, that in nature,'* 
which, I take it, we would say that God produces,* or 
who else ? " " No one, I think." " And then there 
was one which the carpenter made." " Yes," he 
said. " And one which the painter. Is not that so ? " 
" So be it." " The painter, then, the cabinet-maker, 
and God, there are these three presiding over three 
kinds of couches." "Yes, three." " Now God, whether 
because he so willed or because some compulsion was 

* Prochis says that this is not seriously meant {apud 
Beckmann, ^Ymwj Plato art 1/actorum Ideas statuerit, p. 12). 
Cf. Zeller, Pliil. d. Gr. ii. 1, p. 666, who interprets the passage 
correctly; A. E. Taylor, in Hind, xii. p. 5 " Plato's mean- 
inff has been supposed to be adequately indicated by such 
hjilt'-jocular instances as that of the idea of a bed or table 
in Republic x.," etc. 

427 



PLATO 

dvdyKr] iirrjv [xrj ttXcov 'q jMt'av iv rfj (f)V<T€L aTrepyd- 
aaaOai avrov KXlvrjv, ovra>s inoLrjae jXLav [xovov 
avTTjv €KeLV7)v o eart, kXlvt]' Svo 8e roiavrai. 7} 
ttXcIovs ovre i(f)VT€v6rj(xav vtto rov deov ovre firj 
(f)vaJaLV. ria)? Si]; €.<j>7]. "On, rjv S eyctj, et 
hvo fiovas TTOiiqaeie, irdXiv dv fxia dva(f>aveirj, rjs 
eKelvai dv av dfjL(f>6T€pai to elSos exoLev, Kai eirj 
dv o eart kXIvt] eKeivrj, aAA' ovx o.i Suo. OpucJos, 
e(f)r]. Tavra 817, olfxai,, elScbs 6 deos, ^ovXofievos 

D etvat dvTixis KXlvrjs 7Toi'r]Trjs dvrcos ovarjs, dXXd p.y\ 
KXivrjs TWOS pL'qhk kXlvottoios tis, jUtW (f>vaei 
avTTjv e(f}va€v. "EiOLKev. BouAet ovv rovrov [xev 
(f>VTOvpy6v rovrov TTpocrayopevcopiev rj ri roLOvrov; 
AtKaiov yovv, €(f)rj, eTretSi^Trep ^I'cret ye /cat rovro 
Kai rdXXa iravra TTeTToirjKev. Ti Se rov reKrova; 
dp' ov SrjfXLOvpyov kXlvtjs; Nai. 'H /cat rov 
t,ct}ypd(f)ov SrjfXLOvpyov Kai TTOirjrriv rov roiovrov; 
OvSafxcvs. 'AAAo. ri avrov kXIvt^s (fyrjarecs elvai; 

E Tovro, -^ 8' OS, ejxoiye So/cet pLerpicLrar av 
npoaayopeveadai, fXLixrjr-qs ou eKeivoi Srjp.Lovpyoi. 
Efer, r^v 8' eyJj, rov rov rpirov dpa yevv^fiaros 
dno rrjs 0ycrea>s" fJii[xy]rrjv KaXels; Hai^u jxev ovv, 

<» In Tim. 31 a the same argument is used for the creation 
of one world IVa . . . Kara Trjv /j-ovooaiu o/xoiov rj rifi iravTeXei f'wtfj. 
See my De Plat. Idearum doct. p. 39. Cf. Renan, Dialogues 
Phil. p. 25 : " Pour forger les premieres tenailles, dit le 
Talmud, il fallut des tenailles. Dieu les cr6a." 

'' The famous argument of the third man. Cf. What 
Plato Said, p. 585, on Parmen. 132 a and Introd. p. xxiii. 

* Cf, Soph. 265 E d-qau to. fj-ev (pvaei \ey6uiiva Troie'tcrdai 0d(f 
Tixv-Q, Hooker, Eccles. Pol. i. 3. 4 "those things which 
Nature is said to do are by divine art performed, ,using 
nature as an instrument," Browne, apud J. Texte, Etudes 
de litterature europeenne, p. 65 " la nature est I'art de 

428 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

laid upon him " not to make more than one couch in 
nature, so wrought and created one only,* the couch 
which really and in itself is. But two or more such 
were never created by God and never will come into 
being." " How so ? " he said. " Because," said I, 
" if he should make only two, there would again 
appear one of which they both would possess the form 
or idea, and that would be the couch that really is in 
and of itself, and not the other two." " Right," he 
said. " God, then, I take it, knowing this and wishing 
to be the real author of the couch that has real being 
and not of some particular couch, nor yet a particular 
cabinet-maker, produced it in nature unique." " So 
it seems." " Shall we, then, call him its true and 
natural begetter, or something of the kind ? " " That 
would certainly be right," he said, " since it is by and 
in nature" that he has made this and all other things." 
" And what of the carpenter ? Shall we not call him 
the creator of a couch ? " " Yes." " Shall we also 
say that the painter is the creator and maker of that 
sort of thing?" " By no means." " What will you 
say he is in relation to the couch ? " " This," said 
he, " seems to me the most reasonable designation 
for him, that he is the imitator of the thing which 
those others produce." " Very good," said I ; " the 
producer of the product three removes ** from nature 
you call the imitator ? " " By all means," he said. 

Dieu," Cic. De nat. cUor. ii. 13 "deoque tribuenda, id 
eet mundo," De leg. i. 7. 21, Seneca, De benef. iv. 7 
"quid enim aliud est natura quam deus?" Hoffding, Hist, 
of Mod. Philos. ii. 115 "Herder uses the word Nature in 
his book in order to avoid the frequent mention of the name 
of God." 

'' Cf. 587 c, Phaedr. 248 e, where the imitator is sixth in 
the scale. 

4,29 



PLATO 

e(pr). Tout' dpa earai /cat o TpaycohoTTOioSt 
eiTTep ixifirjT^s icrri, rpiTOs T19 oltto ^aaiXeoJS koI 
rrjs aXrjdeias Tre^vKchs, Koi Travres ol aXXot jLtt/xTyrat. 
I^ivSvvevei. Tov fxev Sr] fjLLixTjrrjv (hixoXoyrjKap.ev' 
598 eiTTe 8e puoi nepl tov t^cjoypd^ov rdSe* TTorepa eKeivo 
avTO TO iv Tjj <^va€L eKaoTOv So/cet aoi eTTLX^Lpelv 
fiifjieiadat •^ to. tcDv 8t] fitovpy oJv epya; To. Toiiv 
Sr]p,iovpycov, €(/)r]. ^Apa ola eaTiv rj ola ^atVerat; 
TOVTO yap €Ti Sioptaov. Ucos Xeyeis; ^4'!' *^^Se* 
kXIvtj, edv T€ e/c TrXayiov avTrjv 6ea idv re /car- 
avTiKpv 7] oTTTjovv, /Jit] Ti Sttt^epet avrr^ eavTrjs, 
rj hia^epei p,ev ovhev, ^atVerai Se dXXoia; Kal 
ToXXa (haavTcos; Ovtcos, €(/)r)- <f)atV€Tat, Sta^epet 

B 8' OvSeV. ToVTO St) aVTO OKOTtei- TTpOS TTOTepOV 7] 

ypacfuKYj TTeTTOLTjTai TTepl €KaaTOv; rroTepa irpos to 
6v, u)s ^X^^> jW-'-^f-i^crcto'^at, ri rrpos to (f)aLv6p,evov, cos 
(f)aiv€Tat,, (f)avTdcrp,aTOs rj dXrjdeLas ovaa ixijJLrjais ; 
^avTacTfxaTOS , ^4*1 • ^oppco dpa ttov tov dXrjOovs 
rj iJLifj.rjTLK'q ioTi Kal, co? eoiKe, Sid tovto TvavTa 
direpydt^eTai, otl apuKpov tl eKduTOV e^aTTTerai, 
Kal TOVTO etScoXov. otov 6 ^oiypd^os, (f>ap.€V, 
l,ix>ypa<j)rjaeL rjfjuv uKVTOTOfiov, TCKTOva, tovs oA- 
C Xovs BrjfXLOvpyovs, TTcpl ovhevos tovtcov eTratctiV 
Tcbv T€xva>v dAA' opcos TratSd? re Kal d(f)povas 
dv6p<x)7T0VS, 6t dya^ds' etrj t,a>ypd<f)os, ypdi/jas dv 
TeKTOva Kal voppcodev eTnSeiKvvs i^aTraTcv dv tw 

o Cf. Gorg. 488 d, Soph. 222 c. 

" Cf. Soph. 263 B, Cratyl. 385 b, Euthydem. 284 c. 

« Cf. 599 A, Soph. 232 a, 234 e, 236 b, Prot. 356 d. 

<* Cf. 581 E. 

• For etduiXov cf. p. 197, note e. 

430 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

" This, then, will apply to the maker of tragedies 
also, if he is an imitator and is in his nature three 
removes from the king and the truth, as are all 
other imitators." " It would seem so." " We are 
in agreement, then, about the imitator. But tell me 
now this about the painter. Do you think that 
what he tries to imitate is in each case that thing 
itself in nature or the works of the craftsmen ? " 
" The works of the craftsmen," he said. " Is it the 
reality of them or the appearance ? Define that 
further point." " " WTiat do you mean ? " he said. 
" This : Does a couch differ from itself according as 
you view it from the side or the front or in any other 
way ? Or does it differ not at all in fact though it 
appears different, and so of other things? " "That 
is the way of it," he said ; "it appears other but 
differs not at all." " Consider, then, this very point. 
To which is painting directed in every case, to the 
imitation of reality as it is '' or of appearance as it 
appears ? Is it an imitation of a phantasm or of the 
truth ? " " Of a phantasm," " he said. " Then the 
mi metic art is fa ^ ^^mOYf d ** fr-nm fmfh , and this, it 
seems, is the reason why it can produce everything, 
because it touches or lays hold of only a small part 
of the object and that a phantom * ; as, for example, 
a painter, we say, will paint us a cobbler, a carpenter, 
and other craftsmen, though he himself has no ex- 
pertness in any of these arts,' but nevertheless if he 
were a good painter, by exhibiting at a distance his 
picture of a carpenter he would deceive children and 

' Commentators sometimes miss the illogical idiom. So 
Adam once proposed to emend rex^^v to rex''''"'^''. but later 
withdrew this suggestion in his note on the passage, Cf. 
svpra 373 c, Critias 111 e, and mv paper in T.A.P.A. xlvii. 
(1916) pp. ^05-234. 

431 



PLATO 

8oK€Lv (lis dXrjdcos TeKTova elvai. Tt S' ov; 
AAAa ydp, otfiai, d> (f>LX€, rohe Set Trepi Trdvrwv 
TOJv TOiovTCDV SiavoelcrOaL- iTreiBdu ti? "^fuv dir- 
ayyeXXrj rrepi rov, a»? evervx^v dvdpcoTrq) rrdaas 
eTTtara/xeVoj to,? S-qp^iovpycas /cat rdXXa Trdvra, oaa 

D €LS eKaarog olSev, ovBev o tl ov)(l aKpi^darepov 
orovovv iTTLCTTapieva) , VTroXapL^dveiv Set rw TOtovrcp, 
OTi ev'qOrjs Tts dvdpojTTOs, Kai, chs eoiKev, ivTV)(d>v 
yoT)TL rivi Kai pupL-qrfj i^-qTrari^drj , atare eSo^ev 
avTcp TTaaao(f)os elvai,, 8ta ro avros firj olos t' 
etvai €TTLarriix'r]v /cat dveTnar-qixoavvrjv /cat p.ip.r]aiv 
e^eracrai. 'AXrjOeaTara, €(f)rj. 

III. OvKovv, rjv 8' cyo), p,eTd rovro €7naKe7TT€ov 
rqv T€ rpaycvSiav /cat tov rjyepiova avrrjs "OfX'qpov, 
eTTeiS-q tlvcov aKOVopiev, ort ovtol Trdaas pi^v Te^yas 

E eTTcaravrai, vdm-a 8e rd dvOpcoTreia rd npos dperrjv 



" Cf. Soph. 234 B. 

* SoDryden, Essay on Satire: "Shakespeare . . . Homer 
... in either of whom we find all arts and sciences, all 
moral and natural philosophy without knowing that they 
ever studied them," and the beautiful rhapsody of Andrew 
Lang, Letters to Dead Authors, p. 238 : " They believe not 
that one human soul has known every art, and all the 
thoughts of women as of men," etc. Pope, pref. to his 
translation of the Iliad: " If we reflect upon those innumer- 
able knowledges, those secrets of nature and physical 
philosophy which Homer is generally supposed to have 
wrapped up in his allegories, what a new and ample scene 
of wonder may this consideration afford us." Cf. Xen. 
Symp. 4. 6. Brunetiere, ^po^wes, p. 105, says: " Corneille 
. . . se piquait de connaitre a fond Tart de la politique et 
celui de la guerre." For the impossibilitj' of universal know- 
ledge cf. Soph. 233 A, Charm. 170 b, Friedlander, Platan, ii. 
p. 146 on Hipp. Min. 366 c ff. Cf. also Ion 536 e, 541 b, 
540 B, and Tim. 19 d. Tate, " Plato and Allegorical Inter- 

432 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

foolish men," and make them believe it to be a real 
carpenter." " VNTiy not ? " " But for all that, my 
foend, this. I take it, is what we ought to bear in mind 
in aU such cases : When anyone reports to us of some- 
one, that he has met a man who knows all the crafts 
and everything else * that men severally know, and 
that there is nothing that he does not know "^ more 
exactly than anybody else, our tacit rejoinder miist 
be that he is a simple fellow, who apparently has met 
some magician or sleight-of-hand man and imitator 
and has been deceived by him into the beUef that 
he is all- wise,** because of his own inability to put to 
the proof and distinguish knowledge, ignorance* and 
imitation." " Most true," he said. 

III. " Then," said I, " have we not next to 
scrutinize tragedy and its leader Homer ,^ since some 
people tell us that these poets know all the arts and 
all things human pertaining to virtue and \-ice, and all 

pretation," Class. Quarterly, Jan. 1930, p. 2 says : " The true 
poet is for Plato philosopher as well as poet. He must 
know the truth." This ignores the ipa in 598 e. Plato 
there is not stating his own opinion but giving the 
arguments of those who claim omniscience for the poet. 
Wilamowitz, Platon, ii. p. 313 n. 1 completely misunderstands 
and misinterprets the passage. Cf. Class. Phil, xxvii. (1932) 
p. 85. E. E. Sikes, The Greek View of Poetry, p. 175, says 
Rymer held that " a poet is obliged to know all arte and 
sciences." Aristotle from a different point of view says we 
expect the wise man to know everything in the sense in which 
that is possible. Met. 982 a 8. 

* Cf. ov5ev6i 5tov oi'x' Charm. 175 c, ovSer 5tl ov Ale. I 
105 E, Phil. 54 B, Phaedo 110 e, Euthyph. 3 c, Euthydem. 
294 D, Isoc. Panegyr. 14, Herod, v. 97. 

' -rdxraofpos is generally ironical in Plato. Cf. What Plato 
Said, p. 489, on Lysis 216 a. 

* For at>nri<TTTi)juxrvvr]v cf. Theaet. 199 k f . 

f For Homer as tragedian cf. on 595 b-c, p. 420, note a. 
VOL. II 2 F 433 



PLATO 

Koi KaKiav, Kal rd ye Beta' dvdyKr] yap rov dyadov 
TTOLTjrrjv, €1 fxeXXei irepl a)v av ttoitj KaXcos ttoltj- 
a€iv, etSora dpa ttolcIv, t) [xt] otov re elvai Troielv. 
Set St) eTTLGKei/jaadaL, TTorepov ixl/jLTjtol? tovtols 
oStoi evTvxovT€s i^rjTTaTrjvTai, Kal rd epya avrcHv 
599 opcjvres ovk aladdvovrai rpirrd drrexovra rov 
ovTOS Kal pdSia TTOLelv fxrj etSdri ttjv oAijOeLav' 
(f)avTdcr{xara ydp, aAA' ovk ovra ttoiovolv t) tl /cat 
XeyovoL Kal to) ovtl ol dyadol 7TOLr]TaL laaat Trepi 
u>v hoKovai, Tols TToAAot? €v Xeyetv. Udmj fxev 
ovv, €(f)7), i^eracrreov. Otet ovv, et rty dp,<j>oTepa 
hvvairo TToietv, to re fxifi-qdrjaoixevov Kal ro ei- 
Sa>Xov, ivl rfj rwv etStoAwi/ Srjixiovpyta eavrov 
d(f)€Lvai av a7TOvhdl,eiv Kal rovro Trpoar'qcraadai 

B rod eavrov ^iov (l>s ^eXriarov e^ovra; Ovk eyoiye. 
'AAA' eXirep ye, ol/xai, eTnar^ixcov etr] rfj aXr]det,a 
rovrojv rrepi, drrep Kal pLLpbeXrai, ttoXv nporepov ev 
rols epyois dv aTTOvBdoetev rj enl rots /Ltt/XT^/xaat, 
/cat ireipcpro dv ttoAAo. /cat KaXd epya eavrov /cara- 
AtTretv pivrjpLeia, Kal etvai 7Tpodvp,otr^ dv /xaAAot' o 
eyKcoixLaS^ofievos 7] 6 eyKwixtdl^cov. Of/xat, e(f)rj' 
ov ydp e^ laov Xj re rifxrj Kal 97 w(f)eXei,a. TcSi^ fiev 
roLvvv dXXijov Tvepi pcrj dTrair&pLev Xoyov "Opurjpov 

C T] dXXov ovrLvaovv rdJv TTOirjrcov epojrcjvres, ei 
larpLKos rjv ris avrwv dXXd jjirj ixip.7]Tr]g fiovov 
tarpiKCJV Xoycov, rivas vyieZs TTOirjrrjs ns rcov 
TTaXaicov T] rcbv vecov Xeyerai ireTTOLiqKevaL, oJOTTep 

" Cf. on 598 B. * Cf. 598 b. 

" Cf. Petit de Julleville, Hist. lit. frangaise vii. p. 233, 
on the poet Lamartine's desire to be a practical statesman, 
and ibid. : " Quand on m'apprendrait que le divin Homere a 
refuse les charges municipales de Smyrne ou de Colophon, 

434 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

things divine ? For the good poet, if he is to poetize 
things rightly, must, they argue, create \\ith know- 
ledge or else be unable to create. So we must consider 
whether these critics have not fallen in Avith such 
imitators and been deceived by them, so that looking 
upon their works they cannot perceive that these are 
three removes from reality, and easy to produce with- 
out knowledge of the truth. £or it is phantoms," not 
reahties, that they produce. Or is there something 
in theif~claim, and do good poets really know the 
things about which the multitude fancy they speak 
well ? " " We certainly must examine the matter," 
he said. " Do you suppose, then, that if a man were 
able to produce both the exemplar and the semblance, 
he would be eager to abandon himself to the fashion- 
ing of phantoms ^ and set this in the forefront of his 
life as the best thing he had ? " "I do not." " But, 
I take it, if he had genuine knowledge of the things 
he imitates he would far rather devote himself to real ' 
things'' than to the imitation of them, and would 
endeavour to leave after him many noble deeds '* and 
works as memorials of himself, and would be more 
eager to be the theme of praise than the praiser." 
" I think so," he said ; " for there is no parity in the 
honour and the gain." " Let us not, then, demand a 
reckoning * from Homer or any other of the poets on 
other matters by asking them, if any one of them 
was a physician and not merely an imitator of a 
physician's talk, what men any poet, old or new, is 
reported to have restored to health as Asclepius 

je ne croirais jamais qu'il eut pu mieux meriter de la Gr^e 
en administrant son bourg natal qu'en composant VlUade 
et VOdyssee." " But cf. Symp. 209 d. 

« For the challenge to the poet to specify his knowledge cf. 
Ion 536 E f. 

435 



PLATO 

AaKXrjTTtos, ^ rivas [xadrjras larpiKrjs KareXlnero, 
oictTtep eKetvos rovs eKyovovs, /xtjS' av rrepl ras 
aAAa? Te^uas avrovs ipcurajfiev, aAA' icjfiev Trept 
oe (Lv pLeyLGTCov re /cat KaXXtarcov iTTLX^tpel Xeyeiv 
"Ofxrjpos, TToXeficov re Trepi Kal arpaTTjyiojv Kal 
D SioiKijaecov TroXeojv Kal TratSeia? Trept dvdpcoTTOV, 
SiKaiov 7TOV epcDToiv avTov TTVvdavopiivovs' (x> <f)iXe 

0/X7^pe, €L7T€p pLTj TpLTOS OLTTO TTJS dATJ^eta? Ct 

aperrjs Trept, etScoAou hrjpLLovpyos, ov hrj [xtjJirjTrjv 
wpLadfieda, dXXd /cat hevrepos, /cat otd? re ■^or^a 
yiyi'ajcr/ceti', Trota eTxtTT^Seu/xara ^eXriovs t] x^ipovg 
a.vdpd)7TOVs TTOtet tSta /cat SrjpLocrLa, Xiye tjimv tls 
rojv TToXeojv 8ta ae ^eXnov wKrjaev, woTrep 8ta 
AvKovpyov Aa/ce8ai/>ta»v /cat §t' ctAAous ttoXXovs 
E 77oAAat fjLeydXai re /cat apuKpal' ak he ris amdrai 
TToAt? vofxoderrjv dyadov yeyovevai /cat a^as" 
(h^eXrjKevaL ; XapctivSav /xei' ydp 'IraAta /cat 
St/ceAta, /cat rjixeXs SoAcuva* ae 8e rt's; e^et 
Tim eLTTelv; Ovk olfxai, e<j)T] 6 VXavKcov ovkovv 
Xeyerat ye oj)8' utt' aiJTdit' 'OpuripLhcov. 'AAAd 

600 87^ Tt? TToXejJLOS eTTL 'OfMl^pOV UTt' €KeLVOV dpXOVTOS 

rj ^Vfx^ovXevovTOS ev TToXeixrjdels ixvr)p.oveveTai; 
OvSels. 'AAA' Ota 817 els rd epya ao(f)ov dvSpos 
TToXXal eTTtVotat /cat evpLrjXo.voL elg rex^as rj rivas 
dXXas Trpd^ets Xeyovrai, wdTrep av QdXed> re Trepi 

« Of. Ion 541 A f. 

» Cf. Gorg. 515 b, Laches 186 b. 

<= Cf. Laws 630 d, 633 d, 858 e, Symp. 209 d, Phaedr. 258 a, 
3/mo« 318 c, Herod, i. 65-66, Xen. Rep. Lac. 1. 2 and passim^ 
Plutarch, Life of Lycurgus. 

^ Cf. Symp. 209 d, Phaedr. 258 b, 278 c. Charm. 155 a, 

436 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

did, or what disciples of the medical art he left after 
him as Asclepius did his descendants ; and let us dis- 
miss the other arts and not question them about them ; 
but concerning the greatest and finest things of which 
Homer undertakes to speak, wars and generalship " 
and the administration of cities and the education of 
men, it surely is fair to question him and ask, ' Friend 
Homer, if you are not at the third remove from truth 
and reality in human excellence, being merely that 
creator of phantoms whom we defined as the imi- 
tator, but if you are even in the second place and were 
capable of knowing what pursuits make men better 
or worse in private or public life, tell us what city was 
better governed owing to you,'' even as Lacedaemon 
was because of Lycurgus,''and many other cities great 
and small because of other legislators. But what city 
credits you with ha\-ing been a good legislator and 
having benefited them ? Italy and Sicily say this of 
Charondas and we of Solon."* But who says it of your' 
Will he be able to name any ? " "I think not," said 
Glaucon ; "at any rate none is mentioned even by the 
Homerids themselves." " Well, then, is there any 
tradition of a war in Homer's time that was well 
conducted by his command or counsel ? " " None." 
" Well, then, as might be expected of a man wise in 
practical affairs, are many and ingenious inventions * 
for the arts and business of hfe reported of Homer as 

157 E, Prot. 343 a, Tim. 20 e ff., Herod, i. 29 ff. and 86, 
ii. 177, V. 113, AristoL Ath. Pol. v. ff., Diog. Laert. i. 45 ff., 
Plutarch, Life of Solon, Freeman, Tlie Work and Life of 
Solon. 

* On the literature of " inventions," ivfrniw-ra, see Newman 
ii. p. 382 on Aristot. Pol. 1274 b 4. Cf.WrgW, Aen. vi. 663 
" inventas aut qui vitam excoluere per artes," and Symp. 
209 a. 

437 



PLATO 

Tov MiXrjoiov /cat ^ Kvaxo-potos rov ^kvOov; Ov- 
Bafjicos TOiovTOV ovhev. 'AAAa Srj et jxtj SrjfjLoata, 
iSi'a rialv rj-yeficbv TratSeta? avros ^cbv Aeyerat 
"Ofirjpos yeviadai, ol CKeZvov rjydTTCov irrl cruvovaia 

B /cat rot? vorepois oBov riva TrapeSoaav ptov 
'OfxrjpiKT^v, ojOTTep TlvOayopas avros re hia^epov- 
TOJS e77t rovrcp rjyaTT'^dr}, /cat ot varepoi en koL 
vvv Ylvdayopeiov rponov e7Tovojxdl,ovres rod ^lov 
Sta^ai/et? ttji hoKovaiv elvai ev rots aAAot?; OuS' 
av, e^T], roLovrov ovSev Aeyerat. o yap Kpea)- 
(f>vXos, d) HwKpares, laojs, 6 rod 'O^-qpov eraipos, 
TOV ovofxaros av yeXoLorepos en npog TratSetav 
<f>aveir], el rd Xeyo/xeva irepl 'OfJi'qpov dXrjdrj. 
Xeyerac yap, cos TToXX-q ns d/xeXeia rrepl avrov riv 
VTT avrov^ eKeivov, ore et,rj. 

C IV. Ae'yerat yap ovv, rjv S' eycii. oAA' otet, a» 
VXavKOiv, el rw ovri olos r r^v TratSeuetv dv- 
dpoiTTOvs /cat ^eXriovs dTTepydt,eadai "Ofirjpos, are 
rrepL rovroiv ov ixiixeiadai dXXd yLyvioaKeiv Svvd- 
fjievos, ovK dp av ttoXXovs eraipovs eTTotijaaro /cat 
erLfidro /cat riyandro v-n avrcov; dXXd Upcur- 
ayopas fiev dpa 6 ^ K^hrjpirrjs /cat YlpohiKos 6 
Ketoj /cat aAAot TTajXTroXXoL hvvavrai rots i(f>' 

D eavrcov Trapiardvai tSta ^vyyiyvoyievoi, (hs ovre 
^ l'tt' avTov Ast, Adam : ew aiirov mss. 

" Diog. Laert. i. 23-27. 

** Diog. Laert. i. 105 says he was reported to be the 
inventor of the anchor and the potter's wheel. 

" In the (spurious ?) seventh epistle, 328 a, Plato speaks 
of the life and X670S advocated by himself. C/. Novotny, 
Plato's Epistles, p. 168. 

" Diels i.3 pp. 27 f. 

* Cf. 6p<pLKol . . . ^ioi Laws 782 c. 
438 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

they are of Thales " the Milesian and Anacharsis ^ the 
Scythian? " " Nothing whatever of the sort." " Well, 
then, if no public service is credited to him, is Homer 
reported while he lived to have been a guide in edu- 
cation to men who took pleasure in associating with 
him and transmitted to posterity a certain Homeric 
way of life "just as Pythagoras ^ was himself especially 
honoured for this, and his successors, even to this day, 
denominating a certain way of Ufe the Pythagorean,* 
are distinguished among their contemporaries ? " 

No, nothing of this sort either is reported ; for 
Creophylos,^ Socrates, the friend of Homer, would 
perhaps be even more ridiculous than his name ^ as a 
representative of Homeric culture and education, if 
what is said about Homer is true. For the tradition 
is that Homer was completely neglected in his own 
lifetime by that friend of the flesh." 

IV. " Why, yes, that is the tradition," said I ; " but 
do you suppose, Glaucon, that, if Homer had really 
been able to educate men'' and make them better and 
had possessed not the art of imitation but real know- 
ledge, he would not have acquired many companions 
and been honoured and loved by them ? But are we 
to beheve that while Protagoras * of Abdera and Pro- 
dicus ^ of Ceos and many others are able by private 
teaching to impress upon their contemporaries the 

' "Of the beef-clan." The scholiast says he was a Chian 
and an epic poet. See Callimachus's epigram apud Sext. 
Empir., Bekker, p. 609 {Adv. Math. i. 48), and Suidas s.v. 
KpeJ:<pv\o^. 

Modern Greeks also are often very sensitive to the 
etymology of proper names. Cf. also on 580 b, p. 369, 
note d. 

* See on 540 b, p. 230, note d. 

* Cf. Prot. 315 A-B. 316 c. 

* See What Plato Said, p. 486, on Laches 197 o. 

439 



PLATO 

OlKLaV OVT€ TToXlV TTjV aVTCOV SlOLK€LV oloL T* 

eaovrai, iav fxr] acfteTs avrcov eTTLararrjacoai rrjs 
TratSeta?, Kal eTrl ravrr] rij ao(f>La ovtoj a^ohpa 
(f)i\ovvrai, coare jxovov ovk eTrl rals /ce^aAat? 
7T€pL(f)€povaLV avTovs ol eTocpoL' "Ofirjpov 8' dpa 
ol 677* eKeivov, eiirep olos r rjv irpog dperrjv 
ovtvdvai dvOpojTTOVs, ">) 'YicrLohov paifjwhetv dv 
nepuovTas etcov, Kal ov)(l /xaAAov dv avrcov dvr- 
€i)(ovro ri Tov ■)(^pvaov Kal 'r]vdyKat,ov Trapd a(j>iaLV 
E o'lKot etvat, •^ ei pur] eTreidov, avrol dv inaiB- 
cycoyovv ottt) jjeaav, ecu? iKavdis TratSeta? p-era- 
Xd^oiev; Uavrdiraaiv, ecf)rj, So/cei? /xoi, c5 Scu- 
Kpares, dXrjdrj Xeyeiv. Ovkovv TL6iop.€V (xtto 'Op^t^pov 
dp$api€Vovs Trdvras rovs ttoltjtlkovs papirjTds etSctj- 
Xcov dperrjs etvat, Kal tcov dXXiov, rrepl ojv ttoiovol, 
rrjs Se dXr^deias ovx aTrreadat.; dXX axjirep vvv 
Br] iXdyopiev, 6 ^ct)ypd(f)Os aKvroropLov iroirjaei 
601 BoKovvra elvai, avros re ovk irratajv rrepl gkvto- 
Top,tas Kal TOLS p,r] enatovaiv, ck tojv ;^pa)/U.aTaji' 
8e Acai axf]p-dTa)v decvpovatv ; TTai^u fiev ovv. 
OvTO) 817, olp,ai, Kal TOV TTOLr]riK6v cf)rjoop,€V 

» For SioiKelv cf. Protag. 318 e. 

* See Thompson on Meno 70 b. 

" On nbvov OVK cf. Menex. 235 c, Ax. 365 b. 

<* Stallbaum refers to Themist. Orat. xxii. p. 254 a tv 
ilfieh 5td TaiiTrjv Tfjv <j>avTaclav ixhvov ovk iirl rais K£<pa\ais 
irepi<t>ipofL€v, Erasmus, Chiliad iv. Cent. 7 n. 98 p. 794, and 
the German idiom "einen auf den Handen tragen." 

' Of. Protag. 328 b. 
4.40 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

conviction that they will not be capable of governing 
their homes or the city ** unless they put them in charge 
of their education, and make themselves so beloved 
for this wisdom ^ that their companions all but " carry 
them about on their shoulders,** yet, forsooth, that 
Homer's contemporaries, if he had been able to help 
men to achieve excellence,* would have suffered him 
or Hesiod to roam about rhapsodizing and would not 
have clung to them far rather than to their gold,' and 
constrained them to dwell ^\^th them ^ in their homes, 
or faiUng to persuade them, would themselves have 
escorted them wheresoever they went until they 
should have sufficiently imbibed their culture ? " 
" What you say seems to me to be altogether true, 
Socrates," he said. " Shall we, then, lay it down that 
all the poetic tribe, beginning with Homer,'' are imi- J 
tators of images of excellence and of the other things 
that they ' create,* ' and do not lay hold on truth ? I 
but, as we were just now saying, the painter >\-ill 
fashion, himself knowing nothing of the cobbler's art,| 
what appears to be a cobbler to him and likewise to 
those who know nothing but judge only by forms and 
colours^' ? " " Certainly." " And similarly, I suppose, 
we shall say that the poet himself, knowing nothing 

' The article perhaps gives the word a contemptuous 
significance. So Meno 89 b to xpi'^'oy. 

» oiKoi ehai: J. J. Hartman, Ad Platonis Remp. 600 e, 
Mnem. 1916, p. 45, would change elvat to fj-elvai.. But cf. 
Cic. Att. vii. 10 " erimus una." 

* Cf. 366 E, Gorg. 471 c-d, S^mp. 173 d. 

* Or " about which they versify," playing with the double 
meaning of iroiui'. 

' For the association of xpwyuara and cxv/^o-"^"- cf. Phileb. 
12 E, 47 A, 51 B, Laics 669 a. Soph. 251 a, Meno 75 a with 
Apelt's note, Crati/l. 431 c, Gorg. 465 b, Phaedo 100 d, 
Aristot. Poet. 1447 a 18-19. 



PLATO 

j^pco/x-ar' arra iKaarcov twv rexvcov rot? ovofiaat, 
Kal p-qfxaaiv e7n;)^/Da)jU.aTt^€iv avTOV ovk eTratovTa 
aAA' T] fiLfietaOai, cucrre irepots toiovtols e/c rojv 

B Xoyojv OecopovaL So/cetv, idv re Trepl GKVTOTOfiias 
Tt? Aeyi7 ei^ fierpa} Kal puOfxai Kal appLOvia, Trdw 
€v SoK€lv Xeyeadai, idv re irepl arparrjyias idv 
re TTepl dXXov orovovv ovrco cf)vaeL avrd ravra 
IxeydXqv rivd KtjXrjaLV ^x^iv. iirel yvpLvcoOevra ye 
rtov rfjs piOvaLKrjs ;^pa»/AaTa)i' to, ra)v ttoitjtcov, 
avra e(f> auToJv Xeyopieva, ot/xat ae etSeVat ola 
cf)aLveraL. reOeaaat, yap ttov. "Eycoy', ecfyrj. OvK- 
ovv, Tjv 8' eyci), eoiKe Tolg rcbv (hpaioiv Trpoaoj- 
TTOis, KaXoJv 8e /XT], oTa ytyveraL Ihelv, orav avrd 
TO dvdog TTpoXiTTr); Uavrdnacnv, rj 8' os. "lOt 87^, 
ToBe ddpei' 6 rod elScoXov TTOLTjT-qs, 6 ixip.r]T-qs, 
(f)ap,ev, Tov fiev ovros ovSev eTratei, rov Se (f)aivo- 

C fjLevov ovx ovTCOs; Nat. Mrj roivvv rfpLLcreajs 

" Cf. Symp. 198 b, Apol. 17 c. The explicit discrimina- 
tion of dvofiara as names of agents and prifiaTa as names of 
actions is peculiar to Soph. 262. But cf. Cratyl. 431 b, 425 a, 
Theaet. 206 d. And in Soph. 257 b prjixan is used generally. 
See Unity of Plato^s Thought, pp. 56-57. Cf. Euthydem. 
304 E with Symp. 187 a, Phaedr. 228 d, 271 c and my note 
in Class. Phil. xvii. (1922) p. 262. 

* Cf. What Plato Said, p. 593 on Soph. 240 a. 

• Cf. 607 c. Laws 840 c, Protag. 315 a-b. 

** Cf. Gorg. 502 c et ns TrepieXoi, rrji woiriffeus iracr-qs t6 re 
/tAos Kal rbv pv6fi6v. supra 392, Ion 530 b, Epicharmus apud 
Diog. Laert. iii. 17 TrepLduaas to /xerpov 6 vvv l^x^'i Aeschines, 
In Ctes. 136 TrepieXdvres rod TrocrjTov to fj^Tpov, Isoc. Evag. 
11 rd 5^ /xeTpov dtaXiKTri with Horace, Sat. i. 4. 62 "invenias 
etiam disiecti membra poetae," Aristot. Phet. 1404 a 24 ^Trei 
5' oi TTOirjTai X^yovTes ev-^drj did, ttjv Xe^iv ^86kovv iroplcraadai T-qvBe 
T7)v 86^av. Sext, Empir., Bekker, pp. 665-666 {Adv. Math. 
ii. 288), says that the ideas of poets are inferior to those of 
the ordinary layman. Cf. also Julian, Or. ii. 78 d, Coleridge, 

442 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

but how to imitate, lays on with words and phrases * 
the colours of the several arts in such fashion that 
others equally ignorant, who see things only through 
words,^ will deem his words most excellent, whether 
he speak in rh}-thm, metre and harmony about 
cobbling or generalship or anything whatever. So 
mighty is the spell " that these adornments naturally 
exercise ; though when they are stripped bare of 
their musical colouring and taken by themselves,** I 
think you know what sort of a showing these sayings 
of the poets make. For you, I believe, have observed 
them." " I have," he said. " Do they not," said I, 
" resemble the faces of adolescents, young but not 
really beautiful, when the bloom of youth abandons 
them } ' " " By all means," he said. " Come, then," 
said I, " consider this point : The creator of the 
phantom, the imitator, we say, knows nothing of the 
reahty but only the appearance. Is not that so ? " 
" Yes." " Let us not, then, leave it half said but con- 

Tabh Talk : " If you take from Vii^il his diction and metre 
what do vou leave him ? " 

' Aristot. Rhet. 1-106 b 36 f. refers to this. Cf. Tj-rtaeus 
8 (6). 28 6</)p' ipa-r^i V^V^ ayXaov ivdoi ?x3' Mimnermus i. 4 
^^Tjj ay6r] yiyixTai apraXea, Theognis 1305 : 

ircudeias TroKimjpdTOv avBoi 
UKVTfpof (TTadiov, 

Xen. Symp. 8, 14 to f^v ttjs (bpa% avdos raxv S^ov xapaKfiA^ei, 
Plato, Symp. 183 e ti^ tou aJjfxaToi Hvdei Xt^wti, Spenser, 
*' An Hymne in honour of Beautie " : 

For that same goodly hew of white and red 

With which the cheekes are sprinckled shal decay, 

Segur's refrain : " Ah ! le Temps fait passer I'Amour," 
Emerson, Beauty: "The radiance of the human form . . . 
is only a burst of beauty for a few years or a few months, 
at the perfection of youth, and, in most, rapidly declines." 

443 



PLATO 

avro KaraXiTTCOixev prjdev, aAA' iKavu)^ Xho)}X€V. 
Aeye, ecfirj. Zaiypctc/ios', <f>afX€v, rjvias re ypdifjet 
/cat p^aAivov; Nat. IlotTyaet 8e ye aKVToroixos 
Kal )(aXKevs; Yidvv ye. '^Ap* ovv iirateL otag Set 
rds rjVLas etvai, Kal tov ;)(aAtv6v o ypa^evs; r^ 
oyS' o TTOcrjaas, o re ^aA/ceu? /cat o OKvrevg, oAA' 
€/cetvos', oarrep tovtois eTriaTarai p^p^a^at, piovos, 
6 LTTTTLKos; ^ AXrjdeaTaTa. *Ap' ow ou Trept 

D TTCtv'Ta ouTO) (f)riaop.ev e'x^tr; 11 cD?; Ilept eKaarov 
ravrag Tivdg rpeXg rexvag etvai, xP''^(^ofi€vr)v, ttoiti- 
aovaav, [X(,p.rjaofx4vrjv ; Nat. Ovkovv dpeTrj /cat 
/caAAo? Kat 6pdoTT]g eKaarov aKevovg Kal t,(i)ov Kal 
Trpd^ecog ov Trpog dXXo rt, ^ rr)v ;(;peiai/ eari, Trpog 
Tfv dv eKaarov rj TreTTOcrjpievov rj necjiVKog; Ovrcog. 
IIoAAt) apa dvdyKT] rov ^pf^p-^vov eKdarco epLTreipo- 
rarov re eZvai, /cat ayyeXov yiyveadai ra> TTOir^rfj, 
ota dyadd rj /ca/ca rroieZ ev rfj XP^^V 4* XP'^''"^'' 

E oiov avXrjrrig rrov avXoTTOLO) e^ayyeX\ei Trepl rwv 
avXcov, ot dv VTTrjpercoaLv ev ro) avXeZv, Kal emrd^ei 
olovg Set TTOieZv, 6 S vmjper'qaei. Ildjg S' ov; 
Ovkovv o p.ev etScus e^ayyeXXec Trepl xP'^<^'^d)v Kal 
TTOVTjpoiv avXdJv, o Se TTiarevcov TTOirjaei; Nat, 
Tov avrov dpa aKevovg 6 p,ev TTOL-qrrjg Triarcv 



° The 5^ 7e has almost the effect of a retort. 

* Cf. Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1094 a 10-11 Kaddirep vwb rrjv 
iiririKi]!' 7] x'^^"''"''oitKr; . . . 

" For the idea that the user knows best see Cratyl. 390 b, 
Euthydem. 289 b, Phaedr. 274 e. Zeller, Aristotle (Eng.) 
ii. p. 247, attributes this " pertinent observation " to Aristotle. 
Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1277 b 30 avXijTTjs 6 xp^M-^^os. See 
1282 a 21, 1289 a 17. Coleridge, Table Talk: "In general 
444 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

sider it fully." " Speak on," he said. " The painter, 
we say, \v-ill paint both reins and a bit." "Yes." "But 
the maker " will be the cobbler and the smith. " " Cer- 
tainly." " Does the painter, then, know the proper 
quality of reins and bit ? Or does not even the 
maker, the cobbler and the smith, know that, but only 
the man who understands the use of these things, 
the horseman*.''" "Most true." "And shall we 
not say that the same holds true of everything ? " 
" What do you mean ? " " That there are some three 
arts concerned %vith everything, the user's art," the 
maker's, and the imitator's." " Yes." " Now do not 
the excellence, the beauty, the rightness** of everv^ 
implement, hving thing, and action refer solely to the 
use * for which each is made or by nature adapted ? " 
" That is so." " It quite necessarily follows, then, that 
the user of anything is the one who knows most of it 
by experience, and that he reports to the maker the 
good or bad effects in use of the thing he uses. As, 
for example, the flute-player reports to the flute- 
maker which flutes respond and serve rightly in flute- 
playing, and will order the kind that must be made, 
and the other \^ill obey and serve him." " Of course." 
" The one, then, possessing knowledge, reports about 
the goodness or the badness of the flutes, and the 
other, believing, ^^^ll make them." "Yes." "Then in 
respect of the same implement the maker will have 

those who do things for others know more about them 
than those for whom they are done. A groom knows more 
about horses than his master." But Hazlitt disagrees with 
Plato's view. 

<" So in Laws 669 a-b, Plato says that the competent judge 
of a work of art must know three things, first, what it is, 
second, that it is true and right, and third, that it is good. 

' For the reference of beauty to use see Hipp. Maj. 295 c ff. 

445 



PLATO 

opdrjv €^€i TTcpl KaXXovs T€ KOI TTOVTjpias, ^uvcoy 

Toj etSori Kal dva'yKat,6fj,€vos aKoveiv Trapa rod 

602 eiSoTos' 6 8e XP^P'^^^^ cTnaT'qiJi-qv. Tidvv ye, 

O Se ixifirjTTjg TTorepov €K tov ;i(p^cr^at iTnarqiJirjv 

€^€L wv dv ypd^, etre KoXd /cat opdd eire fit], 

7] So^av opdrjv Sid to ef dvdyKTjs avveXvai ra> 

etSoTt Kal iTTirdrTeadai ota XPV ypd<j>eLv; Ovh- 

erepa. Ovre dpa etaerai ovt€ opdd Sofaaet o 

fjLijjiTjTr^S TTept d)v dv p.Lp,rjraL Trpos /caAAoj r) ttovt]- 

piav. OvK €OLK€v. Xaptfts' dv e'irj 6 iv rfj TTOL-qaei 

IxilxiqTiKOs Ttpos ao(f>iav nepl cov dv TTOLfj. Ov ttovv. 

B AAA ovv St) oficog ye p,LfjiT]aerai, ovk elStbs nepl 

CKacrroVy otttj irov^qpov ri ;)(p7^crTdv oAA', (hs eoiKev, 

oiov <f>aLveTai KaXov elvai toIs ttoXXols re Kal 

,; fiTjSev eiSoai, rovro fjLi/jL'qa-erai. Ti yap dXXo; 

Tavra pcev hrj, c5? ye ^atVerai, emeiKcos rjfxiv 

SLCojJLoXoyrjraL, tov re pLinrjTLKOV pLrjSev elSevai 

d^Lov Xoyov TTepl tSv /Lii/Aeirat, aAA' elvai Traihidv 

y Tiva Kal ov (TTTOvSrjV ttjv pLipirjcrLV, tovs re tt^s 
TpayLKTJs TToiijaecDs aTTTOfxevovs iv lajx^eioLS Kal ev 

' eTTCCTt Trdvrag elvai (XLfMrjriKovs d>s otov re fxaXtaTa. 

n/ \ T 

aw jjLev ovv. 

C V. ripos" Aios, "qv S' iyo), TO Se 8rj fjLip,eLcr6ai. 

TOVTO OV TTepl TpLTOv fiev TL eoTLV aTTO T7JS" dXrj- 

deias ; rj yap; Nat. Upos Se St] ttolov tl earc 

° irlcTTiv dpdrjv is used because of Tricrreijuv above. It is a 
slightly derogatory synonym of 56fo»' dpd-fiv below, 602 a. 
Cf. 511 E. 

* This does not contradict Book v. 477-478. For right 
opinion and knowledge cf. 430 b and What Plato Said, p. 
517, on 3Ieno 98 a-b. 

" Xo-pLiLs is ironical like x^P'^'*''''^' in 426 a and Ka\6u in 
Theaet. 183 a, but Glaucon in his answer takes it seriously. 

446 






THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

right belief" about its excellence and defects from 
association >vith the man who knows and being com- 
pelled to listen to him, but the user \vill have true 
knowledge." " Certainly." " And ■s\-iU the imitator 
from experience or use have knowledge whether the 
things he portrays are or are not beautiful and right, or 
\\i\\ he, from compulsory association with the man 
who knows and taking orders from him for the right 
making of them, have right opinion ^ ? " " Neither." 
" Then the imitator will neither know nor opine 
rightly concerning the beauty or the .badness of his 
imitations." "It seems not." " Most charming,'^ then, 
would be the state of mind of the poetical imitator in 
respect of true wisdom about his creations." " Not 
at all." "Yet stiU he will none the j essj_JBaitate, 
th ough in every cas £Lll£jdQes not know in what way 
the thing is bad orgood^. But, as it seems, the thing 
he win imitate will be the thing that appears beautiful 
to the ignorant multitude." " Why, what else ? " 
" On this, then, as it seems, we are fairly agreed, that 
the imitator knows nothing worth mentioning of the 
things he imitates, but that imitation is a form of 
play,* not to be taken seriously,^ and that those who 
attempt tragic poetry, whether in iambics or heroic 
verse,^ are all altogether imitators." " By all means." 
V. " In heaven's name, then, this business of imita- 
tion is concerned with the third remove from truth, 
is it not ? " " Yes." " And now again, to what 

• Note the accumulation of particles in the Greek. Simi- 
larly in 619 B, Phaedo 59 d, 61 z, 62 b, 64 a, Pamten. 
127' D, Demosth. xxiii. 101, De cor. -282, Find. Pi/th. iv. 64, 
Isoc. Peace 1, Aristot. De gen, et corr. 332 a 3, Iliad 
▼ij. 360. 

• Cf. on 536 c, p. 214, note b. ' Cf. 608 a. 

• For 6- iTiOK cf. 607 a, 379 a, Meno 95 d. 

417 



PLATO 

roiv Tov dvdpdjTTOV exov ttjv Swa/xtr, rfv exei; 
Tov TTOLOV rivos TTepi Aeyet?; Tov roiovSe. 
ravTOV TTOV rjfxlv fxeyedog iyyvdev re /cat Troppcodev 
Sta ri]? otfjeojs ovk taov (^aiverai. Ov yap. Kat 
ravra KapLTTvXa re Kal evdea ev vSan re deco- 
fxevoLS Kal e^oj, Kal KotXd re 8r] Kal e^e^ovra Std 
rr^v TTepl rd -)(^pd}pi,ara av TrXdvrjv ri]s oipeojg, /cat 

D rrdad ris rapax^j S'^Xtj -qp-lv evovaa avrr] ev rfj 
ipvxf]' cp 8rj 'qp,cbv rw TTaQrjp,arL rrjs (f)vcreajs r} 
aKLaypa(f)La emdefMevr] yorjreias ovhev dTToXenrei, 
Kal rj OavpLaroTToda Kal at aAAat 77oAAat Totaurat 
pirjxavai. 'AXrjdrj. ^Ap' ovv ov ro p^erpelv Kal 
dpidfielv Kal lardvai ^OT^deiaL ji^^apteWarat irpos 
avrd ecfidyqaav, ware pirj apx^i-v ev rjpXv ro 
<f)aiv6pievov p.eil,ov rj eXarrov rj nXeov rq ^apvrepov, 
dXXd ro Xoyiadfievov Kal pierprjaav 7] Kal arrjaav; 

E IIcD? yap ov; 'AAAa fjbrjv rovro ye rov XoyicrrtKov 
dv etrj rov ev ^vxfj epyov. Touroy yap ovv. 
TouToj 8e TToAAa/ct? {xerprjaavri Kal <Tr]p.ai,vovri 
pLell,oj drra elvai rj eXdrrco erepa erepcjv t) laa 
rdvavria ^atVerat dpia TTepl ravrd. Nat. Ovkovv 
e(j)apLev ra> avra> dp,a Trepl ravrd evavria So^dt,eiv 
603 dSvvarov elvai; Kat 6p6a)s y' e<f)apLev. To Trapa 

" The antithesis of ire pi and 7rp6s marks the transition. 

* C/. Protag. 356 c, supra 523 c. 

" Cf. Tennyson ("The Higher Pantheism") " For all wt 
have power to see is a straight staff bent in a pool." For the 
illusions of sense, and measurement as a means of correcting 
them cf. Phileb. 41 e-42 a f., 55 e, Protag. 356 c-d, Euthy- 
phro 7 c. 

■* iiridenevr) helps to personify nKiaypadia. Cf. Gorg. 464 c. 

* Adam's "leaves no magic art untried" is misleading. 
airoKeltreLV is here used as in 504 c. For the idiomatic ovSit> 
airoXeiirei see p. 200, note b, on 533 a. 

448 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

element " in man is its function and jx)tency related ? " 
"Of what are you speaking?" "Of this: The 
same magnitude, I presume, \-iewed from near and 
from far ^ does not appear equal." "Why, no." 
" And the same things appear bent and straight "^ to 
those who \-iew them in water and out, or concave and 
convex, o\nng to similar errors of \'ision about colours, 
and there is ob\-iously every confusion of this sort in 
our souls. And so scene-painting in its exploitation ** 
of this weakness of our nature falls nothing short of 
witchcraft,* and so do jugglery and many other such 
contrivances." "True." " And have not measuring 
and numbering and weighing-^ proved to be most 
gracious aids to prevent the domination in our soul 
of the apparently" greater or less or more or hea\ier, 
and to give the control to that which has reckoned'' 
and numbered or even weighed ? " " Certainly." 
" But this surely would be the function' of the part 
of the soul that reasons and calculates.^ " " Why, 
yes, of that." " And often when this has measured *■■ 
and declares that certain things are larger or that 
some are smaller than the others or equal, there is at 
the same time an appearance of the contrary'." " Yes." 
" And did we not say ' that it is impossible for the same 
thing at one time to hold contradictory opinions about 
the same thing ? " " And we were right in affirming 
that." " The part of the soul, then, that opines in 

' Cf. Xen. Mem. i. 1.9. 

' Cf. Protag. 356 d t} tw tpaivofienov SiVa/us. 

* \oyurdfi(vov : cf. Lavs 644 d, Crito 46 b. 

» Cf. Vol. I. p. 36, note a. Of course some of the modem 
connotations of "function " are unknown to Plato. 

* For XorfLUTiKoi' cf. on 439 d. 

* See p. 448, note c, and my PlaUmism and the History of 
Science, p. 176. ' 436 b. Vol. I. p. 383. 

VOL. II 2 G 449 



PLATO 

ra fxerpa dpa bo^d^ov rijs ^^XV^ '^^ Kara ra 
fierpa OVK dv etrj ravrov. Ov yap ovv. 'AAAa 
firjv TO fxerpcp ye Kal Aoyicr/xo) inarevov ^eXnaTov 
dv etr] rrjs ijivx'^s. It iJi'TQv; To apa rovrco 
ivavTiovjJievov tcov (f)avXa)v dv ri etrj iv rjpXv. 
'Amy/fTj. TouTO TOivvv StofioXoyqaacrdai ^ovXo- 
[xevos eXeyov, otl rj ypacf)LKrj /cat oXojs rj piLix7]Ti.Krj 
TTOppco fxev Trj9 dX-qdeias ov to avrrjs epyov 
dTTepydt,eraL, TToppoj 8' ay (fipovqaecos ovtl ru) iv 

B r^piZv TTpoaojJLLXeL re /cat iraipa /cat (f)i,Xrj eartv en 
ovSevl vyiel ouS' aAi7^et. YlavraTraaLV, 17 8' o?. 
^avXr] dpa (f>avXa> ^vyytyvopievrj cf)avXa yevva 17 
fx,i,fji7]riKTJ . "Eot/cev. Tiorepov, rjv 8' eyco, rj Kara 
TTjv 6tl>LV fJLOvov, Tf Kal Kara rrjv aKO-qv, rjv 8-q 
votrjCTLv 6vop.dt,ofjL€v; Et/co? y', e^^, /cat ravrrjv. 
Ml] TOLVvv, -qv 8' iyu), rep elKort, fiovov Tnarev- 
crajp,€V e/c rrjs ypacf}LKrjg, dXXd /cat eV auro au 

C eXdoJjJLev rrjs Siavoias rovro, w TrpoaopuXft rj ttj? 
TTOLiqaeojg /xt/xTjTi/c?^, /cat tScu/Ltei', <f>avXov -J) cfttov- 
Satdi^ iariv. 'AAAa XPV' ^^8e S-q 7Tpo6cop.eda' 
TTpdrrovTas, (f)ap,€v, dvdpwjTOVS fxifielrai r] fiLpnqTiKr) 
^laiovs rj eKovaias irpd^eis, Kal e/c tov TTpdrreLv rj 
ev olopiivov? rj /ca/ccDj TrerrpayevaL, /cat ev tovtols 
Brj Trdaiv rj XvttovjxIvovs t) ■)(^aipovra£ . firj rt aAAo 
rjv^ TTapd ravra; OvSev. ^Ap' ovv iv aTraai rovrois 

D ofiovoTjTiKcos dvdpiOTTos 8ta/cetTat; rj loarrep Kara 

1 ^y Ast:5AM, ^FD. 



» Cf. 604 D, Phaedr. 253 d and e. 

' Cf. LA'Sias ix. 4 i-n-l fx-rjdevi vytei and for the idiom oiiSev 
vyih supra on 523 b, p. 153, note/. 
« C/. 496 A, and on 489 d, p. 26, note b. 

450 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

contradiction of measurement could not be the same 
•with that which conforms to it." " Why, no." 
" But, further, that which puts its trust in measure- 
ment and reckoning must be the best part of the soul." 
" Surely." " Then that which opposes it must belong 
to the inferior elements of the soul." " Necessarily." 
" This, then, was what I \dshed to have agreed upon 
when I said that po^^. and in general the mimetic 
art, produces a prooucFthat is far removed from truth 
in the accomphshment of its task, and associates ^^^th 
the part in us that is remote from intelligence, and 
is its companion and friend " for no sound and true . 
purpose. **" " By all means," said he. " Mimetic art, ! 
then, is an inferior thing cohabiting with an inferior I 
and engendering inferior offspring.*^ " "It seems so." ' 
" Does that," said I, " hold only for vision or does it 
apply also to hearing and to what we call poetry ? " 
" Presumably," he said, " to that also." " Let us not, 
then, trust solely to the plausible analogy <* from paint- 
ing, but let us approach in turn that part of the mind 
to which mimetic poetry, appeals and see whether 
it is the inferior" or the nobly serious part." " So 
we must." " Let us, then, put the question thus: 
Mimetic poetry, we say, imitates human beings acting 
under compulsion or voluntarily,* and as a result of 
their actions supposing themselves to have fared 
well or ill and in all this feeUng either grief or joy. 
Did we find anything else but this ? " " Nothing." 
" Is a man, then, in all this of one mind with himself, 
or just as in the domain of sight there was faction 

** Cf. Phaedo 92 d hih. tQ)v eiK&riav. 

' Cf. supra 399 a-b. Laws 655 d, 814 e ff., Aristot. Poet. 
1448 A 1-2 f'lrei 5^ fjufiovvrai oi /xifjLoi'fievoi irpaTTovras avayKT] 
Si TovTovi fj a-rovdaiovi fj <pav\ovs ehai, ibid. 1449 b 36-37 f. 

451 



PLATO 

TTjv oijjiv €araaiat,e koX evavrias eX^^v iv iavrco 
Sofa? a/xa Trepl twv avrcov, ovtco Kal iv rats 
rrpd^eai CTracrta^et re /cat yudxerai avros avrco; 
avaixLixprjcTKOixai, Se, on tovto ye vvv ovSev Sec 
7)1x8.5 SiOfjioXoyetcrdaL- iv yap rots dvoj Aoyois 
iKavoJs TToivTa ravra SLcoixoXoyrjadfieda, on fxvpiojv 
TOLOvTOjv evavrnojxaTOjv ajxa yiyvo/xevcov rj ij/vx'^ 
yefiei rjfxoJv. 'OpdcJbs, e^"*?- ^OpdoJs yd-p, rjv S* 
iycj' dAA' o Tore aTreXiTTOfxev, vvv fiot, SoKel dvay- 
E KaXov etvat Ste^eXdetv. To ttolov; e<f)'q. ^Avqp, 
•^v S' iycv, iTTLeiK-qs roidaSe rvx^js pieraaxdjv , vlov 
diroXeaas rj n dXXo ojv Trepl TrXeiarov TTOLelrai, 
iXeyofxev ttov Kal rare on paara oiaei rcov dXXojv. 
riai'L' ye. Nw 8e ye roSe eTnaKei/jcofieOa' norepov 
ovhev dxBecrerai, t) rovro fxev dSvvarov, fJberpidaeL 
8e ttcjos npos Xvtttjv; Ovrco jxdXXov, €(fyr], ro ye 
604 dX-qdes. To8e vvv pioi Trepl avrov emi' TTorepov 
HdXXov avrov otet rfj XvTrr) pba)(eladai re Kal 
dvnreiveiv, orav opdrai vtto rcov ofioLcov, rj orav 
iv eprjixia jjlovos avros Kad' avrov yiyvr^rai; IIoAy 
TTOV, €<^r}, Siotaet, orav opdrai. Movojdels Se ye, 
olfiat,, TToXXd fJLev roXfi-qa-et (^dey^aadai, d el ns 
avrov dKovoi alcrxvvoir dv, TToXXd be TTOirjaei, a 
ovK dv Se^atTo nva ISetv Spcovra. Ovrojs ^X^^> 
ecf>r). 

" See What Plato Said, p. 505, on Gorg. 482 a-b. 

* Cf. 554 D, and p. 394, note e, on 586 e. 
' 439 B fF. 

•* Plato sometimes pretends to remedy an omission or to 
correct himself by an afterthought. So in Book v. 449 b-c 
ff., and Tim. 65 c. 

• 387 D-E. 

' This suggests the doctrine of (leTpioirddeia as opposed 

452 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

and strife and he held within himself contrary 
opinions at the same time about the same things," so 
also in our actions there is di\ision and strife * of the 
man with himself ? But I recall that there is no need 
now of our seeking agreement on this point, for in 
our former discussion "^ we were sufficiently agreed 
that our soul at any one moment teems with count- 
less such self-contradictions." " Rightly," he said. 
" Yes, rightly," said I ; " but what we then omitted^ 
must now, I think, be set forth." " WTiat is that ? " 
he said. " WTien a good and reasonable man," said I, 
" experiences such a stroke of fortune as the loss of a 
son or anything else that he holds most dear, we said, 
I beheve, then too,* that he will bear it more easily 
than the other sort." " Assuredly." " But now let 
us consider this : Will he feel no pain, or, since that 
is impossible, shall we say that he will in some sort 
be moderate-^ in his grief? " " That," he said, " is 
rather the truth." "Tell me now this about him: 
Do you think he will be more hkely to resist and fight 
against his grief when he is observed by his equals 
or when he is in sohtude alone by himself? " " He 
will be much more restrained," he said, " when he 
is on \iew." " But when left alone, I fancy, he will 
permit himself many utterances which, if heard by 
another, would put him to shame, and will do many 
things which he would not consent to have another 
see him doing." " So it is," he said. 

to the Stoic ardOeta. Joel ii. p. 161 thinks the passage a 
polemic against Antisthenes. Seneca, Epist. xcix. 15 seems 
to agree with Plato rather than with the Stoics : " inhumanitas 
est ista non virtus." So Plutarch, Cons, ad Apol. 3 ( 102 c f.). 
See also ibid. 23 (112 z-f). Cf. Horace, Odf s ii. 3. 1 
"aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem," and 
also Laws 732 c, 960 a. 

453 



PLATO 

VI. OvKOVV TO jxev dvTLTeLveiv SiaKcXevoixevov 
B Xoyos xal vofios i(TTi, to 8e cXkov inl ras Auvra? 
auTO TO TrdOos ; ^AX7]9rj. ^Kvavriag 8e dywyrjs 
yiyvoiilv-qs iv ray dvOpcoTTO) TTcpl to avTO a/xa Bvo 
^ajJiev avTcp dvayKotov etvai. Ilcvg 8' ov; Ovkovv 
TO yL€v eTepov tco io/^oj eTOLjJiov Treideadai, fj 6 
vojjLos i^rjyeLTai; IT CDs'; Aeyet ttov 6 vofios, oTt 
koXXlotov 6 TL jxaXtaTa -qavxiav dyetv iv tols 
^vfx^opaXs Kol fMYj dyavaKT€Lv, cos ovTe Si^Aou 
ovTOs Tov dyadov tc kol KaKOV tojv tolovtcov, ovt€ 
€LS TO npoadev ovBev Trpo^atvov tco )^aXeTra)s 
C (f)epovTL, ovT€ TL Twv dvdpojTTLUojv d^Lov ov ficydXrjs 
gttovStjs, 6 T€ Set ev avTols 6 ti Ta;;^tCTTa irapa- 
yiyveadai rjfjiiv, tovtco ifXTToScbv yLyvofxevov to 
XvTTeiadaL. Tivi, rj 8' o?, Aeyetj; Toj ^ovXeveadai, 
"^v 8' iyo), 7T€pl TO yeyovos Kal aiarrep iv TTTcoaei 

KV^OJV TTpOS TO, TTeTTTOJKOTa TldeoOaL TO, aVTOV 

TTpdyjxaTa, otttj 6 Xoyos alpeZ ^iXTLOT' dv cx^tv, 
dXXd fiTj TTpoGTTTataavTas Kaddnep TralSas ix°' 
fievovs TOV TrXiqyivTOS iv Tip ^odv SiaTpi^eiv, oAA' 
D del idit,€LV TTjv i/jv)(rjv 6 tl Ta;^tCTTa yiyveadai rrpos 
TO Idudai T€ Kal iiravopdovv to Treaov Te /cat 



» C/. Laws 645 a, Phaedr. 238 c, and for the conflict in 
the soul also Rep. 439 b fF. 

* The conflict proves that for practical purposes the soul 
has parts. Cf. 436 b fi". 

" Cf. Apology, in fine. 

<* Cf. Laws 803 b and Class. Phil. ix. p. 353, n. 3, Fried- 
lander, Platan, i. p. 143 . 

* HofFding, Outlines of Psychology, p. 99, refers to Saxo's 
tale of the different effect which the news of the murder of 
Regner Lodbrog produced on his sons: he in whom the] 
emotion was weakest had the greatest energy for action. 

454 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

VI. " Now is it not reason and law that exhorts 
him to resist, while that which urges him to give way 
to his grief is the bare feeling itself ? " " True." 
" And Mhere there are two opposite impulses " in a 
man at the same time about the same thing we say 
that there must needs be two things '' in him." " Of 
course." " And is not the one prepared to follow 
the guidance of the law as the law leads and directs?" 
" How so ? " " The law, I suppose, declares that it is 
best to keep quiet as far as possible in calamity and 
not to chafe and repine, because we cannot know 
what is really good and evil in such things " and it 
advantages us nothing to take them hard, and nothing 
in mortal life is worthy of great concern,'^ and our 
grieving checks * the very thing we need to come to 
our aid as quickly as possible in such case." " What 
thing," he said, " do you mean?" " To deUberate,^ " I 
said, " about what has happened to us, and, as it were 
in the fall of the dice,^ to determine the movements of 
our affairs with reference to the numbers that turn up, 
in the way that reason indicates'' would be the best, 
and, instead of stumbUng like children, clapping one's 
hands to the stricken spot ' and wasting the time in 
wailing, ever to accustom the soul to devote itself at 
once to the curing of the hurt and the raising up of what 

' Cf. Shakes. Richard II. iir. ii. 178 : 

My lord, wise men ne'er sit and wail their woes 
But presently prevent the ways to wail, 

Herod, i. 20 irp6s rb ira.pfbv /SoiiXeiTjrat. 

» Cf. Eurip. Electro 639 and fr. 175 irpbs rb mirrov, Iph. 
Aul. 1343 and Hippol. 718 xpoj rot fuv jreirTw/c6Ta, Epictet. 
ii. 5. 3. See also Stallbaum ad loe. 

» Cf. 440 B, 607 B, Herod, i. 132, 

* Cf. Demosthenes' description of how barbarians box 
iv. 40 (51), det TTJs TrXrjyiji ^eroj. 

455 



PLATO 

voarjaai', larpiK'^ dp7)va)8iav d<^art^om-a. *0pd6- 
rara yovv dV ns, ^(f>V> '^ROS rd? tvxo-S ovtco 
7Tpo(7(f)epotro. OuKovv, (f>afi€v, to fxev ^eXriarov 
rovrcp rip XoyiapLO) ideXei eTreaBai. AijXov Srj. 
To Se 77-pos" rag duafjivqaeis re rod rrdOovs koI irpos 
rovs oSvpjjLovs dyov Kal dTTAi^o-Tco? ^xov avrd)V 
dp ovK dXoyiarov re (f)-qaop,€V elvai /cat dpyov Kal 
oeiAias' <l>iXov; ^riGop^ev p,kv adv. Ovkovv to 
E P'kv TToXXriv fxip^'qaiv Kal TTOiKlXrjv e^ei, to dya- 
vaKrrjTiKov ro 8e (f)p6vip,6v re Kal rjavxi-ov rjdos, 
TTaparrXiqaiov ov del avro avrco, ovre paSiov jjupi'q- 

I aaadat ovre fxipLovfjievov evveres KarafxaOelv, dXXcog 
re Kal irav-qyvpet, Kal iravrohaTTols dvdpcoTTOis els 
dear pa ^vXXeyop.evois . dXXorpiov yap ttov irddovs 

605 "f] /U.iyx7yo-t? avrols yiyverai. YiavraTraai pev ovv. 
'0 817 p,iprjrLK6g TTOLrjrrjs SrjXov on ov rtpos ro 
roLOvrov rrjs ^v^^js TTe(f>VKe ye Kal rj ao^ia avrov 
rovrcp dpeoKeiv Trerr-qyev, el p,eXXei evhoKip.r]aeiv 
ev roLS TToXXoLS, dXXd rrpos ro dyavaKrrjriKov re 
Kal ttolklXov rjdos Std ro evpip,rjrov elvai. ArjXov. 
OvKovv 8i,Kaia>g dv avrov rjS-q eTrLXapi.^avoip,eda, 
Kal rcdelpLev dvrl(Trpo(f)ov avrov toj l,a)ypd(f)Cp ; 
Kal yap rep <f)avXa TTOietv rrpos dXt^deiav eoiKev 
avro), Kal rip Trpos erepov roiovrov opuXeZv rrjs 
B ^i^XV^> '^^^ R'V "^P^S TO ^eXriarov, Kal ravrrj 
ihpioiioraf Kal ovrios rjSrj dv ev SiKrj ov napaSexol- 



" Cf. Soph. Ajax 582 dp-qveiv ivi^Sks wpds TOfxdvri. inqfian 
with Ovid, Met. i. 190: 

sed immedicabile vulnus 
ense recidendum est. 



456 



I 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

has fallen, banishing threnody " by therapy." " That 
certainly,'" Tie said, would be the best waj' to face 
misfortune and deal w-ith it." " Then, we say, the best 
part of us is uniting to conform to these precepts of 
reason." " Ob\iously." "And shall we not say that 
the part of us that leads us to dwell in memory on our 
suffering and impels us to lamentation, and cannot 
get enough of that sort of thing, is the irrational 
and idle part of us, the associate of cowardice "* ? " 
" Yes, we will say that." " And does not the 
fretful part of us present '^ many and varied occasions 
for imitation, while the intelligent and temperate dis- 
position, always remaining approximately the same, 
is neither easy to imitate nor to be understood when 
imitated, especially by a nondescript mob assembled 
in the theatre ? For the representation imitates a 
type that is alien to them." " By all means." " And 
is it not ob\"ious that the nature of the mimetic poet 
is not related to this better part of the soul and his 
cunning is not framed ^ to please it, if he is to •win 
favour with the multitude, but is devoted to the 
fretful and comphcated type of character because it 
is easy to imitate ? " " It is ob%ious." " This con- 
sideration, then, makes it right for us to proceed to 
lav hold of him and set him down as the counterpart * 
of the painter ; for he resembles him in that his 
creations are inferior in respect of reality ; and the 
fact that his appeal is to the inferior part of the soul 
and not to the best part is another point of resem- 
blance. And so we may at last say that we should be 

* Cf. on 603 B, p. 450, note a. 

* #X« in the sense of " involves," " admits of," as fre- 
quently in Aristotle's Metaphysics. 

^ For TrtTTifftv cf. 5.S0 D. 

* avr'uiTpo4>o» is used as in Aristot. Rhet. Iii54 a 1. 

457 



PLATO 

jxeda ets" fxiXKovaav evvoyieZadai ttoXiv, otl tovto 
iyeipei rrjg ^v-xy]S Kal rpi^ei kol laxvpov ttolcov 
anoXXvai to AoytCTt/coj', (La-rrep iv TroAet orav tij 
IxoxO'Tjpovs iyKparetg ttolcov TrapaSiBo) rr)v ttoXiv, 
Tovs Se xapiearepovg (j)deipr]' ravrov /cat tov 
IxijjLTjTLKOV TTOLrjrrjv <j>iqaoiiev KaKTjv TToXcretav tSt'a 
eKaarov rfj ^v^fj epLTTOietv, ra> avorjTco avTrjs 

C xcipt^o/xei^ov Kal ovre to. /xet^co ovre ra iXdrTO) 
hiayiyvojaKovTi, dAAa to. avTo. rore fxev fieydXa 
riyovfjievcp, rore Se (J^iiKpa, etScoAa elhwXoTroiovvra, 
TOV Se dXr]6ovs TToppco irdvu dchearojra. 11 ai^ 
fitv ovv. 

VII. Ov fievToi TTO) TO ye fjueyiOTov KaTTjyo- 
prjKafiev avTrjs. to yap /cat tovs emetKels LKavrjv 
elvat Xoo^dadat, eKTog Trdvv tlvcjv oXiyoiv, -ndv- 
heivov TTOV. Tt 8* ov fjceXXei, etnep ye Spa avTo; 
'A/coucov aKonei. ol yap ttov /SeArtaroi r]p.u)v 
aKpocofievoi 'OfX'qpov ^ dXXov tlvos tcov TpaycoSo- 

D TTOLOJv jjLifjioviJievov TLvd Tcbv rjpcocov iv TTevdei 
ovTa /cat jxaKpav prjaiv diTOTeivovTa ev toZs 
dSvppoZs, 1) Kal aSovrds re /cat KOTTTop,evovs, otad 
OTL x^Lpofjiev T€ Kal evSovTes rjfids avTovs eTTopieda 
^vpi7Tdcr)(ovTes Kal a7TovSdt,ovTes eTraLvovpiev d>s 
dyadov ttoltjt'^v, os dv rjpLas d tl p-dXioTa ovtoj 
Siadfj. OtSa* TTcbs 8' ov; "OTav Se oiKeZov rivi 
Tjpcjv KTjSos y€V7)TaL, ivvoeZs av otl eirl tco evavTLcp 
KaXXcx)Tnl,6pLe9a, dv SvvdipeQa r^avxiav dyetv Kal 

E KapTepeZv , cos tovto pev dvSpos ov, ckcZvo Se 

« Cf. p. 412, note d. * Cf. p. 420, note o, on 595 b-c. 

« For iv Trivdei. cf. Soph. El. 290, 846, Herod, i. 46. 

"" Cf. Phileb. 48 a. 
' See the description in Ion 535 e, and Laws 800 d. 
458 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

justified in not admitting him into a well-ordered 
state, because he stimulates and fosters this element 
in the soul, and by strengthening it tends to destroy 
the rational part, just as when in a state " one puts 
bad men in power and turns the city over to them 
and ruins the better sort. Precisely in the same 
manner we shall say that the mimetic poet sets up in 
each individual soul a \-icious constitution by fashion- 
ing phantoms far removed from reahty , and by currying 
favour with the senseless element that cannot dis- 
tinguish the greater from the less, but calls the same 
thing now one, now the other." " Bv all means." 

VII. " But we have not yet brought our chief 
accusation against it. Its power to corrupt, vriih rare 
exceptions, even the better sort is surely the chief 
cause for alarm." " How could it be otherwise, if it 
really does that ? " " Listen and reflect. I think 
you know that the very best of us, when we hear 
Homer ^ or some other of the makers of tragedy imi- 
tating one of the heroes who is in grief,' and is de- 
livering a long tirade in his lamentations or chanting 
and beating his breast, feel pleasure,** and abandon 
ourselves and accompany the representation with 
sympathy and eagerness,' and we praise as an excel- 
lent poet the one who most strongly affects us in this 
way." " I do know it, of course." " But when in 
our own hves some affliction comes to us, you are also 
aware that we plume ourselves upon the opposite, 
on our ability to remain calm and endure, in the 
belief that this is the conduct of a man, and what 
we were praising in the theatre that of a woman.-^ " 
" I do note that." "Doyou think, then," said I, "that 

' This is qualified in 387 e-388 a by oi'Si Tavrcui c-rovScUcui. 
Cf. also 398 e. 

459 



PLATO 

yvvaiKos, o Tore eTTrjvovfxev. 'Evvooi, e(^7y. H 
i KaXcbs ovv, rjv 8' eyco, oStos 6 eTraivos e^et, to 
opaJvra tolovtov dvSpa, otov iavrov ns i^y] a^ioi 
etvaL dAA' ala)(VPOiTO dv, fxrj ^SeXvrTeadat aAAa 
\aipetv T€ Kal eiTaivelv; Ov jua rov At", €•^■17, ovk 
606 evXoyw eoiKev. Nai, T^r 8' iyco, el eKetvr] y avro 
aKOTToirjs. 11^; Ei ivOvfioZo, ort, ro ^ia Kar- 
exofxevov Tore ev rals olKelais ^vp,(jiopaZs Kat ire- 
TTeii'rjKos rod SaKpvaat re /cat aTToSvpaaOai LKavoJs 
Kal aTTOTrXiqadrjvaL, (f)vaei ov tolovtov o'lov tovtojv 
emdvpLelv, tot' ecrri touto to vtto tcov 7T0Lr]TC0V 
TTifXTTXajxevov /cat ;^at/3oi'" to 8e (jjvaei ^dXrioTOV 
rjfjicijv, d.Te ovx t/cavto? TreTraihevixevov Xoyo) ovoe 
edei, dviqai ttjv (f)vXaKr)v tov dprjvojhovs tovtov, 
B are aXXoTpta TrdOrj deojpovv Kal eavTco ovbev 
alaxpov ov, el aAAo? dvrjp dyados (jjaaKcuv eti^ai 
d/catpo)? TTevdel, tovtov eTTaiveiv /cat eXeelv aAA 
eKelvo Kephaivetv rjyelTai, ttjv rjSovrjV, /cat ovk av 
8e^atTO avT-fjs aTep-qdrjvai KaTa(f)povrj(Ta? oXov 
TOV TTOi-qjJLaTOS. Xoyit,eadaL ydp, ot/xat, oAiyotS' 
TtCTt fjuerearTLV, oTt dvT-oAayeiv' dvdyKr] airo twv 
dXXoTpiixiv els Ta ot/ceta* dpeipavra ydp ev e/cetVot? 
laxvpov TO eXeeLvov ov paSiov ev rots avTov 



" Cf. Vol. I. p. 509, note b, on 473 e. 

"" Cf. Isoc. Panegyr. 1 68 for a different application. 

« This contains a hint of one possible meaning of the 
Aristotelian doctrine of KaOapcns, Poet. 1449 b 27-28. Cf. 
Kov(f)L^ea0ai jj-ed' rjdov^i Pol. 1342 a 14, and my review of 
Finsler, " Platon u. d. Aristot. Poetik," Class. Phil. iii. p. 462. 
But the tone of the Platonic passage is more like that of 
Ruskin, Sesame and Lilies : " And the human nature of us 

460 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

this praise is rightfully bestowed when, contemplat- 
ing a character that we would not accept but would 
be ashamed of in ourselves, we do not abominate 
it but take pleasure and approver" "No, by Zeus," 
he said, " it does not seem reasonable." " Oh yes," " 
said I, " if you would consider it in this way." " In 
what way ? " "If you would reflect that the part of 
the soul that in the former case, in our own misfor- 
tunes,* was forcibly restrained, and that has hungered 
for tears and a good cry '^ and satisfaction, because it is 
its nature to desire these things, is the element in 
us that the poets satisfy and dehght, and that the 
best element in our nature, since it has never been 
properly educated by reason or even by habit, then 
relaxes its guard "^ over the plaintive part, inasmuch as 
this is contemplating the woes of others and it is no 
shame to it to praise and pity another who, claiming 
to be a good man, abandons himself to excess in his 
grief; but it thinks this vicarious pleasure is so much 
clear gain,* and would not consent to forfeit it by 
disdaining the poem altogether. That is, I think, 
because few are capable of reflecting that what we 
enjoy in others ■will ineWtably react upon ourselves.' 
For after feeding fat ^ the emotion of pity there, it is 
not easy to restrain it in our o^vn suflFerings." " Most 

imperativelj" requiring awe and sorrow of some kind, for 
the noble grief we should have borne with our fellows, and 
the pure tears we should have wept with them, we gloat 
over the pathos of the police court and gather the night 
dew of the grave." 

* This anticipates the idea of the "censor" in modern 
psychology. 

* Cf. rfj o' d.(r<pa\eig. Kepdaveh Eurip. Here. Fur. 604, which 
is frequently misinterpreted ; Herod, viii. 60. 3. 

' For the psychology cf. Laics 656 b and supra on 385 c-d. 
» C/.U2A. 

461 



PLATO 

C Trddeai Karex^iv. ^AXTjOearara, €(f)r]. ^Ap' ovx o 
avTOS Xoyos Kal Tvepl tov yeXoiov, ore, dv avros 
alcrxvvoio yeXcoTOTTOicov, ev ficfxijcrei, Srj KcofJLCpSLKrj 
7) Kal IS la aKovojv a^ohpa X'^PfJ^ '^^'' I^V 
fiLcrijs cos TTOvrjpd, ravTov noieis OTrep iv rots 
eXeocs; o yap rw Xoyo) av Karetx^S €v aavT(^ 
PovXofievov yeXcoTOTTOLeiV, (f}o^ovp.evos So^av jSco/ito- 
Xoxlo-S, TOT av dvL-qs Kal e/cet vcaviKov TTOirjaas 
eXades TToXXaKis iv rots ot/ceiois" i^evexdels ware 

D KO)fi(x)So7Toi6s yeveadai. Kat /xaAa, e^>y. Kai 
nepl dcjipohioLOiV 8rj Kai dvjjLOV Kal rrepl Trdvrtov 
rojv €7ndvfirjrLK<x)v re Kal XvTTTjpcbv Kal rjSecov iv 
rfj tpvxfj, d S-q ^ttjMei' Trdar^ Ttpd^ei rjixlv eveadai, 
ort roiavra rjfxds 17 TTOirjriKrj jxip.-q(JLS ipydl,erai; 
rpechei yap ravra dpSovaa, Seov avxpelv, Kal 
dpxovra rjp.lv Kadicrrrjcn, Seov dpxecrdai avrd, Iva 
^eXriovs re Kal evhaipovearepoi dvrl ;\;etpova>r Kal 
ddXicorepcov yiyvcLpeda. Ovk ex^) dXXcos (f)dvai, 

E "^ 8' OS. OvKovv, €L7T0V, (X) rAai;K:a>i^, orav 

Opuqpov eTTairerais ivrvxjjS Xeyovaiv, (hs rrjv 

'EAActSa TTeTTaihevKev ovros 6 TTOirjr'qs, xai irpos 

SioiK-qaiv re Kal TratSeiav rwv dvdpojTrivuiv irpay- 

fidrojv d^Los dvaXa^ovrt, pLavddveiv re Kat, Kara 

° Cf. Vol. I. p. 211, note/. La Bruyere, Bes Ouvrages de 
Vesprit (CEuvres, ed. M. G. Servois, i. p. 137) : "D'oii vient 
que Ton rit si librement au theatre, et que Ton a honte d'y 
pleurer?" 

* In the Laws 816 d-e Plato says that the citizens must 
witness such performances since the serious cannot be 
learned without the laughable, nor anything without its 
opposite ; but they may not take part in them. That is left 
to slaves and foreigners. Cf. also Vol. I. p. 239, note b, on 
396 E. 

* i.e. as opposed to public performances. Cf. Euthydem,^ 

462 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

true," he said. " Does not the same principle apply- 
to the laughable," namely, that if in comic representa- 
tions,'' or for that matter in private talk,*^ you take in- 
tense pleasure in buffooneries that you would blush 
to practise yourself, and do not detest them as base, 
you are doing the same thing as in the case of the 
pathetic ? For here again what your reason, for fear of 
the reputation of buffoonery, restrained in yourself 
when it fain would play the clown, you release in turn, 
and so, fostering its youthful impudence, let your- 
self go so far that often ere you are aware you become 
yourself a comedian in private." " Yes, indeed," he 
said. " And so in regard to the emotions of sex and 
anger, and all the appetites and pains and pleasures 
of the soul which we say accompany all our actions,"* 
the effect of poetic imitation is the same. For it 
waters* and fosters these feelings when what we ought 
to do is to dry them up, and it establishes them as our 
rulers when they ought to be ruled, to the end that 
we may be better and happier men instead of worse 
and more miserable." " I cannot deny it," said he. 
"Then, Glaucon," said I, "when you meet encomiasts 
of Homer who tell us that this poet has been the 
educator of Hellas,^ and that for the conduct and 
refinement ^ of human life he is worthy of our study 

SOSxtip 5i Twi iSloii \Ayois, Theaet. 177 b. Soph. 232 c iv ye 
Totj ISlai^ ffvvovffiais, and Soph. 222 c trpoffofJuX-riTiKifv with 
Quintil. iii. 4. 4. Wilamowitz, Antigonos von Karystos, 
p. 285, fantastically says that it means prose and refers to 
Sophron. He compares 366 e. But see Laws 935 b-c. 

' Cf. supra 603 c. ' Cf. 550 b. 

' Isocrates, Panegyr. 159, says Homer was given a place 
in education because he celebrated those who fought against 
the barbarians. Cf. also Aristoph. Frogs 1034 ff. 

' The same conjunction is implied in Protagoras's teach- 
ing, Protag. 318 e and 317 b. 

463 



PLATO 

TovTov Tov TTOirjTrjv TTOLvra Tov avTOV ^Lov Kara- 

607 (TKevaad/JLevov ^rjv, ^lAetv fxev ^p-q kol aaTrat^eadai 

I IDS ovra? ^eXriarovs els oaov hvvavrai, /cat 

' (^^YX^P^^^ "Ofxrjpov TTonqTLKojrarov elvai Koi Trpw- 

Tov Tojv rpaycpSoTTOLcov, elSevai 8e, OTt oaov fxovov 

. vfMvovs deots Kal iyKWfiLa rols dyadois Troirjaeois 

I TTapaSeKTeov ei? ttoXlv et 8e rrjv 'qSvap.ei^v 

Movcrav napaSe^et iv jxeXeaLv 7] eireaiv, rjSovT^ aot 

Kat XvTTTj iv rfj rroXec ^acrtXeucreTov olvtI vojxov re 

/cat TOV KOLvfj det ho^avros klvai ^eXriarov Xoyov. 

AXr^dearara, €(f)rj, 

B VIII. Tavra St^, ecl>r)v, aTToXeXoyqadoj rjpXv 

avafjLv-qadelai, Trepl Troirjaecos , on etKOTCos dpa 

TOT6 avTr)v e/c rrjs rroXecos aTreareXXopLev roLavTrjv 

ovaav 6 yap Xoyos r)p,ds fip^i" TrpoaeincopLev Se 

avrfj, pLTj Kai riva aKXrjpoTTjra rjp,djv /cat dypoiKiav 

Karayvcp, on, TraAata pev ns Sta^opa cf>iXoao(f)La 

re /cat TTOfqnKTJ- Kal yap rj Aa/cepu^a Trpo? Se- 

OTTorav Kvojv eKeivr] Kpavydt,ovaa, /cat pLcyag iv 



" For the /jl^v cf. Symp. 180 e, Herod, vii. 102. 

* The condescending tone is that of Eutkydem. 306 c-d. 

" Aristotle, Poet. 1453 a 29, says that Euripides is rpaytKu- 
raros of poets. 
<* Cf. 605 c, 595 B-c. 

* Cf. Laws 801 D-E, 829 c-d, supra 397 c-d, 459 e, 468 d, 
Friedlander, Platon, i. p. 142, and my review of Pater, Plato 
and Platonism, in The Dial, 14 (1893) p. 211. 

^ Cf. Laws 802 c r^s yXvKelas Mova-i^s. See Finsler, 
Platon u. d. aristot. Poetik, pp. 61-62. 
» See on 604 c, p. 455, note h. 

* For the quarrel between philosophy and poetry cf. Laws 
967 C-D, Friedlander, Platon, ii. p. 136. It still goes on in 
modern times. Cf. Keats, " Lamia " : 

464. 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

and devotion, and that we should order our entire 
hves by the guidance of this poet, we must love " and 
salute them as doing the best they can,^ and concede 
to them that Homer is the most poetic "^ of poets and 
the first of tragedians,** but we must know the truth, 
that we can admi t no poetry into ou r y jt y save on ly 
hymng to the go ds and the praise s^gf^j^oodLmen." 
For if you grant admission to the honeyed muse ^ in 
I j'ric 6r~epic, pleasiire and pain will b e Jords of_your 
city Inst ead of law and that which shall from time to 
time have approved itself to the general reason as 
the best." " Most true," he said. 

Vin. " Let us, then, conclude our return to the 
topic of poetry and our apology, and affirm that we 
really had good grounds then for dismissing her from 
our city, since such was her character. For reason \ 
constrained us.^ And let us further say to her, lest she 
condemn us for harshness and rusticity, that there is 
from of old a quarrel ^ between philosophy and poetry. 
For such expressions as ' the yelping hound barking 
at her master and mighty in the idle babble of fools,' » 

Do not all charms fly 
At the mere touch of cold philosophy ? 

Wordsworth, " A Poet's Epitaph " : 

Philosopher ! a fingering slave, 
One that would peep and botanize 
Upon his mother's grave. 

But Anatole France thinks otherwise, " Les Torts de 
ITiistoire," Vie litte'raire, ii. p. 123: " J'ai remarque que 
les philosophes vivaient generalement en bonne intelligence 
avec les poetes . . . Les philosophes savent que les poetes 
ne pensent pas; cela les desarme, les attendrit et les 
enchante." 

* Wilamowitz, Platon, i. p. 252, conjectures that these 
quotations are from Sophron; cf. also ibid. ii. pp. 386-387. 
VOL. II 2 H 465 



PLATO 

C d.(f)p6vo)v Kev^ayopiaioL, koI 6 rcbv hiacro^cxyv o^Ao? 
Kparajv, /cat ol XerrraJs ixepifjLVcbvres on dpa 
TTevovrai, /cat d'AAa fivpia arjixela TraAaias" ivavrno- 
aecos TOVTOJV. o/xo)? Se etp-qadco, on rjjJieLs ye, et 
Ttva €XOL Xoyov etTretv 'q Trpog rjSovrjV TTOtrjTLKrj 
/cat 7) fxifirjCTig, coy X/^t7 avrrjv elvai iv TToAet ei5- 
vofxovfxevrj, aafievoi, av /caraSep^otjLte^a' co? gvv- 
L<yp.4v ye rjfuv avrols K-qXovfJievoLs vtt avrrjs' 
dXXa yap to Sokovv dXrjdes oi);^ oatov TrpohiSovaL. 

D rj yap, w (jilXe, ov KrjXet vtt' avrrjs /cat av, /cat 
IxaXiara orav 8i' 'Opufipov decupfjs avrijv; IToAu 
ye. OvKovv Si/cata iarlv ovtoj Kanevai, aTTO- 
XoyrjcraixevTj^ iv jue'Aet rj Tivi dXXo) ixerpo); Ilavu 
fxev ovv. Aolfiev 8e ye ttov dv /cat rot? TrpoararaLg 
avrrjg, daoi jxr] TrotTjrt/cot, cf)iXoTTOL7]TaL Be, avev 
fxerpov Adyov vvep avri]s eiTrelv, ct»? ov [xovov 
TjSela dXXd /cat d)(f)eXip,r] Ttpos ras" TroAiTetas /cat 
Tov jStov Tov dvdpcoTTivov eoTf Kal evfievdjs aKovao- 

E /A€0a. KepSavovfjLev yap ttov, edv p,rj /jlovov rjSela 
<f)av'fj dXXd /cat axfieXiiJirj. Ilcos S' ov fieXXofJiev, 
€(f)rj, KepBaiveiv; Ei Se' ye /X77, cS ^t'Ae eTalpe, 
wcTTrep OL TTore rov epaadevres, edv rjyTqcrcovraL p,y] 
cut^eAijLtov eti'at rov epcora, ^ia fxev, opuas Se avr- 
exovrai, Kal rjfxeXs ovrojs, Sid rov eyyeyovora /xev 

^ a.vo\oyi)(xaijAvr) A, airoXoytffCLfi^vr] FD, d.TroXoyriaofjJi'ri A^M. 



<• C/. p. 420, note 6, on 595 c. 
^ C/. supra, Introd. p. IxiiL 

466 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

and ' the mob that masters those who are too wise 
for their own good,' and the subtle thinkers who reason 
that after all they are f>oor, and countless others are 
tokens of this ancient enmity. But nevertheless let 
it be declared that, if the mimetic and dulcet poetry 
can show any reason for her existence in a well- 
governed state, we would gladly admit her, since we 
ourselves are ver}' conscious of her spell. But all the 
same it would be impious to betrav what we believe 
to be the truth." Is not that so, friend ? Do not you 
yourself feel her magic ^ and especially when Homer "^ 
is her interpreter?" "Greatly." "Then may she 
not justly return from this exile after she has pleaded 
her defence, whether in lyric or other measure r " 
" By all means." " And we would allow her advo- 
cates who are not poets but lovers of poetr}' to plead 
her cause ** in prose without metre, and show that she 
is not only delightful but beneficial to orderly govern- 
ment and ail the hfe of man. And we shall hsten 
benevolently, for it will be clear gain for us if it can be 
shown that she bestows not only pleasure but benefit." 
" How could we help being the gainers ? " said he. 
" But if not, my friend, even as men who have fallen 
in love, if they think that the love is not good for 
them, hard though it be,* nevertheless refrain, so we, 

* In LavDs 658 d Plato says that old men would prefer 
Homer and epic to any other literary entertainment. 

* This challenge was taken up by Aristotle {Poetics), 
Plutarch {Quomodo adolescent), Sidney {Defense of Poesie), 
and many others. 

' 3'iq- fUv, oMws 5e : cf, Epist. iii. 316 e, and vii. 325 a, 
and Raeder, Rhein. Mus. Ixi. p. 470, Aristoph. Clouds 1363 
ftoKii fiio d\V o^tas, Eurip. Phoen. 1431 n.6\i% ixiv, e^ereive 
«", and also Soph. Antig. 1105, O.T. 998, Eurip. Bacch. 
1027, Hec. 843, Or. 1023, El. 753, Phoen. 1069, I.A. 688, 
904. 

467 



PLATO 

epayra rijs TOLaurrjg TTocqaeois vtto r-qs rctiv KoXoiV 
608 TToXireiibv rpo^rjs, evvoi fxev iaofieda (f)avfjvat 
avTrjv CO? ^eXriar-qv /cat dXrjdeara.T'qv, ecus 8' oiv 
fjLT] Ota t' 27 OLTroXoyqaaadai, a/cpoaao/xe^' avrijs 
eTTa8ovT€s rjjxZv avTols rovrov tov Xoyov, ov Ae- 
yofxev, Kal ravrrjv ttjv CTTcpS-qv, evXa^ov/juevot 
TTaXiv eixTTeaelv els tov TratSt/cot' re /cat tov tojv 
TToXXojv epcoTa. alaQ6p,eda} S' ovv, ojs ov ottov- 
haoTeov €7rl ttj ToiavTrj TTOLrjaei a*? dXrjdeLas re 
aTTToixevT) /cat avovSaia, dAA' evXa^rjreov avT7]v^ 
B Tcp aKpocofievo), rrepl ttjs €v avTcv TToXiTeias 
SeStort, /cat vofitaTea arrep elpT^Kafxev Trepl TTOi-q- 
aecos. HavTOLTTaaiv, ?J 8' os, ^viJ,<l)r]iJiL. Me'yas 
ya/3, ^(l>rjv, 6 dyoiv, cu (j>iXe VXavKOJV, fjceyas, ovx 
oaos 8o/cet, to xPV^"^^^ V '^(^'^ov yeveadai, oiOTC. 
ovT€ TLfifj eTTapOevra ovt€ p^pT^/xaati' ovt€ dp^f} 
ovSefiia ovSe ye TTOL-qrLKrj d^iov dfxeXi^aai St/cato- 
avvr]s re /cat rrys" aAAry? dpeTrjs. B,vfji,(f)rjiJil aoi, 
e<f)r], e^ Jjv 8ieX'rjXv6a[ji.ev' olfiai 8e /cat ctAAov 

OVTtVOVV. 

C IX. Kat fi'qv, '^v 8 eyw, ra ye juey terra eTrl)(eipa 
dpcTrjs Kal TrpoKeifieva ddXa ov SieXr^XvOapuev' 
^ Afjiijxavov Tt, e(f)rj, Xeyeis fieyedos, el tojv elprfp^e- 

^ aladbfieOa. AFDM, eicrbneda scr. Mon., i}.<r6/ieda Madvig, 
followed by Burnet. 

* ADM have 6v after avTrjv, F ^v. More recent 3iss. 
omit it. 

" Ironical, as KaWiarr] in 562 a. 
468 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

owing to the love of this kind of poetry inbred in us 
by our education in these fine " polities of ours, will 
gladly have the best possible case made out for her 
goodness and truth, but so long as she is unable to 
make good her defence we shall chant over to our- 
selves ^ as we hsten the reasons that we have given as 
a counter-charm to her spell, to presene us from slip- 
ping back into the childish loves of the multitude ; 
for we have come to see that we must not take such 
poetr}' seriously as a serious thing " that lays hold on 
truth, but that he who lends an ear to it must be on 
his guard fearing for the polity in his soul "^ and must 
beheve what we have said about poetry." " By all 
means," he said, " I concur." " Yes, for great is 
the struggle,* " I said, " dear Glaucon, a far greater 
contest than we think it, that determines whether a 
man prove good or bad, so that not the lure of honour 
or wealth or any office, no, nor of poetry either, j 
should incite us ^ to be careless of right eousness and i 
al L excellence." " I agree with you," he replied, 
" in view of what we have set forth, and I think that 
anyone else would do so too." 

IX. " And yet," said I, " the greatest rewards of 
virtue and the prizes proposed for her we have not 
set forth." " You must have in mind an inconceiv- 
able'' magnitude," he replied, "if there are other 

* For iirq.bovres cf. Phaedo 114 d, 77 e. 

« Cf. 602 B. 

' Cf. on 591 E, p. 4.12, note d. 

' Cf. Phaedo 114 c, 107 c, Phaedr. 247 b, Gorff. 526 e, 
Blayaes on Aristoph. Peace 276, and for the whole sentence 
Phaedo 83 e-c, supra 465 d, infra 618 b-c f. and p. 404, 
note d, on 589 e. 

^ irapdevTa : cf. 416 C. 

' Cf. supra 494 c, 509 a, 548 D, 584 b, 588 a, Apol. 41 c. 
Charm. 155 o. 

469 



PLATO 

voiv jjiei^co ear IV aAAa. Tt 8' av, rjv 8' iyco, ev ye 
oXiyco XP^^V l^^y^ yevoLTo; nds yap ovtos ye 
6 eK TTaiSos p^^xpi TTpea^vrov xpovos Trpos Travra 
oXiyog ttov tls av ei-q. Ovhev jxev ovv, e(f)r}. Ti 
ovv; o'Ui adavdrcp TrpdyfiarL vTrep roaovrov SeXv 

J) xpovov iarrovSaKevaL, dXX' ovx VTrep tov Travros; 
OtfiaL eyoiy , e(f)rj- dXXd tL tovto Ae'yeij; Ouk 
'^adrjaai, rfv 8' eycL, on dddvaros r]pi,(xiv rj ipvxrj 
Kal ovheTTore dTToXXvrat; Kal os ifx^Xeifjas jjlol 
Kal davfidcras eiTTe Mo. A", ovk eyojye' av Se 
toi»t' €X€ls Xeyeiv; Et purj dSt/ccu y', e(f)r)V' of/tat 
Se Kal av- ov8ev yap xc-XeTTov. "EifjLoty' , e^-q- aov 
8' av TjSeojg dKovaat/jn, to ov ;\;aAe7roi' tovto. 
'Akovois av, -^v 8' eyd). Aeye pcovov, e<j)r]. *Aya- 

E 66v Tt, eiTTov, Kal KaKov KaXeis; "Eycoye. ^Ap" 
ovv warrep eyo} rrepl avTcbv Siavoet; To ttolov; 
To jxev aTToXXvov Kal SiacfydeLpov irdv to KaKov 
etvat, TO 8e aiot,ov Kal (LcjyeXovv to dyaOov. "Eyojy', 

" Clement, Strom, iv. p. 496 b bdoCveK dperr? rihv iv 
dvOpunrois fibvi) ovk eK Ovpaiwv Tairlxe^pa. 'Xaix^dvei, avTi] S' iavrrjp 
&6\a Twv irdvuv ^x^i. Tennyson, " Wages " : 

... if the wages of Virtue be dust, 
Would she have heart to endure for the life of the worm 
and the fly ? 
She desires no isles of the blest, no quiet seats of the just. 
To rest in a golden grove, or to bask in a summer sky : 
Give her the wages of going on, and not to die. 

* Tennyson, " Locksley Hall Sixty Years After": 

Good, for Good is Good, he follow'd, yet he look'd beyond 

the grave . . . 
Truth for truth, and good for good ! The Good, the True, 

the Pure, the Just — 
Take the charm " For ever" from them, and they crumble 

into dust. 
470 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

things greater than those of which we have spoken." " 
" What great thing," said I, " could there be in a 
Httle time * ? For surely the whole time from the boy to 
the old man would be small compared -with all time." " 
" Nay, it is nothing," he said. " \Miat then ? Do 
you think that an immortal thing"* ought to be seriously 
concerned for such a httle time, and not rather for all 
time ? " "I think so," he said ; " but what is this . 
that you have in mind ? " " Have you never per- | 
ceived," said I, " that our soul is immortal and never / 
perishes ? " And he, looking me full in the face * in / 
amazement,^ said, " No, by Zeus, not I ; but are you 
able todeclare this ? " "I certainly ought to be,^ " said 
I, "and I think you too can, for it is notliing hard." 
" It is for me," he said ; " and I would gladly hear 
from you this thing that is not hard.'' " " Listen," 
said I. " Just speak on," he replied. " You speak 
of * good and evil, do you not ? " " I do." " Is your 
notion of them the same as mine ? " " What is it ? " 
" That which destroys and corrupts in every case is 
the evil; that which preserves and benefits is the 

« Cf. on 486 A, p. 9, note /and 498 d. 
** For the colourless use of irpa.y/ia see Wh(U Plato Said, 
p. 497, on Protag. 330 c-d. C/. Shakes. Hamlet, i. iv. 67 
being a thing immortal as itself." 

• efi$\i-'pas: cf. Charmldes 155 c. 

* Glaucon is surprised in spite of 498 d. Many uncertain 
inferences have been drawn from the fact that in spite of 
the Phaedo and Phaedrus (245 c ff.) interlocutors in Plato 
are always surprised at the idea of immortality. Cf. supra, 
Introd. p. Ixiv. 

» For the idiomatic el firj oSikQ cf. 430 e. Charm. 156 a, 
Menex. 236 b, infra 612 n. 

* Cf, Protag. 341 a rb xaXeTrAx tovto, which is a little 
different, Herod, vii. 1 1 r6 SfLvbv to irtl<ronai. 

• See Vol. I. p. 90, note a and What Plato Said, p. 567, on 
Cratyl. 385 b. 

471 



PLATO 

€(f)rj. Ti 8e; KaKov eKaarto ri Kol dyadov Xeyeis; 
609 otov ocfjOaX/xols 6(f)da\ixiav /cat ^vfirravTi rw acojjLaTi 
voaov, GLTCp re ipvaL^iqv, arjTreSova re ^yAois', 
Xo-Xkco Se /cat aihripco lov, /cat, oirep Xeyco, (T)(^€S6v 
Traat ^vfju^vrov e/cacxTOJ /ca/cov re /cat voaiqixa; 
Eyojy , e^^. Ou/cow orav toj ti ToyTCOP" rrpoa- 
yevriraiy TTOvrjpov re Troiet cS TTpoaeyivero, /cat reAeu- 
TcDv oAoi' Ste'Aucre /cat (XTrcoAeCTep'; IlcDj yap ov; 
To ^vpi(f)vrov dpa KaKov eKaarov /cat tJ novTjpla 
eKaarov olttoXXvcflv , t) el firj rovro aTToXei, ovk dv 
B oAAo ye avro en Sta(f>deLpeiev. ov yap ro ye 
dyadov jxri TTore n drroXearj, ovhe av ro fxrire 
KaKov pufjre dyadov. Wcos yap dv; e(f)rj. 'Eav 
apa Tt evptcrKcojxev rwv 6vra>v, <L eari jxev KaKov, 
o TTOtet avro p^o^d'^pov, rovro puevroL ov)( olov re 
avTo Xveiv aTToXXvov, ovk rjSr] elaopeda, on rod 
TTe(f)VK6ros ovrcos oXeOpos ovk rjv; Ovrcog, ^4'^> 
eiKos. Tt ovv; rjv 8' eyoj' ipv)(fj dp* ovk eanv 
o TTOieZ avrrjv KaKiqv ; Kat pdX , e^rj, d vvv Si] 
C Stfjpev TTavra, aSt/cta re /cat a/coAacria /cat SeiAta 
/cat dpadta. ^H ovv n rovrcov avrrjv StaAuet re 
/cat aTroAAuai; /cat evvoei, p^rj e^aTTarrjdojpLev 
olrjdevres rov dhiKov dvdpioirov /cat dvorjrov, orav 
Xr](f)6fj dStKOJv, rore aTToXcoXevai vtto rrjs dSt/cta?, 
TTOvrjptas ovorjs ipvxrjs' dAA' c58e Trotet* uiOTrep 
acjjpa 7] Giop^aros TTOvrjpia vooos ovaa rrjKei /cat 
StdAAuCTt /cat dyet eis ro p.-qhe aajpa elvai, /cat d 

" Ruskin, Time and Tide § 52 (Brantwood ed. p. 68) : 
" Every faculty of man's soul, and every instinct of it by 
which he is meant to live, is exposed to its own special form 
of corruption " ; Boethius, Cons. iii. 1 1 (L.C.L. trans, p. 283), 
things are destroyed by what is hostile; Aristot. Top. 
124 a 28 et yap rb (pdapriKov diaXvriKou. 

472 



I 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

good." " Yes, I think so," he said. " How about 
this : Do you say that there is for everything its 
special good and evil, as for example for the eyes 
ophthalmia, for the entire body disease, for grain 
mildew, rotting for wood, rust for bronze and iron, and, 
as I say, for practically everything its congenital evil 
and disease ''? " " I do," he said. " Then when one 
of these evils comes to anything does it not make the 
thing to which it attaches itself bad, and finally dis- 
integrate and destroy it ? " " Of course." " Then 
the congenital e\'il of each thing and its ovm \ice 
destroys it, or if that is not going to destroy it, 
nothing else remains that could ; for ob\iously ^ the 
good will never destroy anything, nor yet again will 
that which is neutral and neither good nor evil''." 
" How could it ? " he said. " If, then, we discover ** 
anything that has an evil which \itiates it, yet is not 
able to dissolve and destroy it, shall we not thereupon 
know that of a thing so constituted there can be no 
destruction ? " " That seems likely," he said. " Well, 
then," said I, " has not the soul something that makes 
it evil ? " " Indeed it has," he said, " all the things 
that we were just now enumerating, injustice and 
licentiousness and cowardice and ignorance." " Does 
any one of these things dissolve and destroy it ? And 
reflect, lest we be misled by supposing that when an 
unjust and foolish man is taken in his injustice he is 
then destroyed by the injustice, which is the \ice of 
soul. But conceive it thus : Just as the vice of body 
which is disease wastes and destroys it so that it 
no longer is a body at all,* in like manner in all the 

» 76 vi termini. Cf. 379 a, Phaedo 106 d. 

• See W/iat Plato Sa'i'l, p. 490, on Lysis 216 c 

■* C/. Vol. I. p. 529, note a, on 478 d. 

* Cf. Aristot. Pol. 1309 b 28 /XT/Se plva Tonjfret (paiveffOai. 

473 



PLATO 

vvv Sr] iXeyojjLev airavTa vtto ttjs olK€ias KaKias, 

D Toj TTpocFKadrjadai kol eveivai Stacfydetpovarjs, els to 

IJ,rj etvai a.(j}iKV€iTai — ov^ ovrcos; Nat. "I^i Srj, 

/cat ^vyj]v Kara rov avrov rpoTTOV aKonei, dpa 

evovcra iv avrfj aSiKta /cat rj dXXy] /ca/cia rep iveivai 

Kai TrpooKaOrjadai (fjdetpei, avriqv /cat jxapaivei, ecog 

av et? ddvarov dyayovaa rov acojxaros ;^ajpto7^; 

OvSa/xibs, ^ff)rj, rovro ye. 'AAAa jxevroi eKelvo ye 

dXoyov, rfV 8 eyco, rrjv p.ev dXXov TTovqpiav oltt- 

oAAwat Tt, rr^v he avrov fiiq. "AXoyov. ^Evvoei 

E yap, rjv 8' iyo), d) TXavKOJV, on ouS' vtto rrjs 

ra>v airicov TTovrjpias, 'q av fj avrwv eKeivcov, etre 

TraAatoTTj? etVe aarrporrjs etre rjriaovv ovaa, ovk 

oiofieda SeXv aoj/xa aTroAAuCT^at* dAA edv puev 

epLTTOifi rj avrcbv iroinqpia rcbv airiojv rip anopiart, 

acjpuaros pLoxOrjplav, cf)TJaop,ev avro St' e/cetva vtto 

rijs avrov /ca/cta? voaov ovar'qs drToXcoXevai' vtto 

610 8e airioiv TTOvrjpLas dXXcov ovroiv ctAAo 6V to acD/xa, 

VTT dXXorpiov KaKov pirj epiTTonqoavros ro epi<^vrov 

KaKov, ovheTTore d^iwaopiev StacfideLpeadaL. 'Opdo- 

rara, e^rj, Xiyeis^ 

X. Kara rov avrov roivvv Xoyov, fiv 8 eycu, edv 

fi7] aiop-aros TTOvr]pia ifjvx'^ ^V)(rjs TTOVqpiav ipbTTOifj, 

^ dpOorara . . . \^yeii Adam : opdorar' &»<,.. \4yeis 
AFDM : opdorar ad . . . XiyeLS Stephanus : dpOdrar B.v . . . 
Xiyois Hermann. 

, " The argument that follows is strictly speaking a fallacy 

I , in that it confounds the soul with the phj-sical principle of 
life. Cf. on 335 c and on 352 e, Gorg. 477 b-c, and supra, 
Introd. p. Ixvii. But Dean Inge, " Platonism and Human 
Immortality " {Aristot. Soc, 1 9 1 9, p. 288) says : "Plato's argu- 
ment, in the tenth book of the Republic, for the immortality 
of the soul, has found a place in scholastic theology, but is 
supposed to have been discredited by Kant. I venture to 
4,74. 






THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

examples of which we spoke it is the specific evil 
which, by attaching itself to the thing and dwelling 
in it -with power to corrupt, reduces it to nonentity. 
Is not that so ? " "Yes." "Come, then, and consider 
the soul in the same way." Do injustice and other 
wickedness dwelling in it, by their indwelling and 
attachment to it, corrupt and wither it till they bring 
it to death and separate it from the body ? " " They 
certainly do not do that," he said. " But surely," 
said I, " it is unreasonable to suppose that the vice of 
something else destroys a thing while its own does 
not." " Yes, unreasonable." " For observe, Glau- 
con," said I, " that we do not think it proper to say 
of the body either that it is destroyed by the badness 
of foods themselves, whether it be staleness or rotten- 
ness or whatever it is ; ^ but when the badness of the 
foods themselves engenders in the body the defect 
of body, then we shall say that it is destroyed oning 
to these foods, but by '^ its own vice, which is disease. 
But the body being one thing and the foods some- 
thing else, we shall never expect the body to be 
destroyed by their badness, that is by an alien evil 
that has not produced in it the evil that belongs to it 
by nature." " You are entirely right," he replied. 
X. " On the same principle," said I, " if the bad- 
ness of the body does not produce in the soul the 

think that his argument, that the soul can only be destroyed 
by an enemy (so to speak) in pari materia, is sound. 
PhysicaJ evils, inchiding death, cannot touch the soul. And 
wickedness does not, in our experience, dissolve the soul, 
nor is wickedness specially apparent when the soul (if it 
perishes at death) would be approaching dissolution." Cf. 
610 c. Someone might object that wickedness does destroy i 
the soul, conceived as a spiritual principle. 

^ Plato generalh' disregards minor distinctions when they 
do not affect his point. • C/. 610 d. 

475 



PLATO 

fXTj TTOTe d^LcbiJiev utt' dXXoTpiov KaKov dv€V rrjg 
iSia? TTOvrjpias ifivx^jv aTToXXvcrdai, to* irepov KaKw 
erepov. ''E;\;et yap, €(f)rj, Xoyov. *H toLvvv ravra 

B e^eXey^cofxev on ov KaXoJs Xeyofxev, t] ecos av 17 
aveXeyKTa, fii^ irore (f)a)fjL€v vtto TTVperov p-fjS* av 
VTT dXXrjs voaov fJb'qS^ av vtto a(f)ayTJs, ixr]h' et ris 
o Tt ajjiLKporara oXov to aa)[j,a /carare/xot, eveKa 
TovTcov firjSev fxdXXov Trore ^v)(r]v aTToXXvadaL, 
rrpiv av tls (XTroSei^i^, ojs 8ta ravra rd 7Ta9rjp.ara 
Tov aa)p,aros avrrj iKCLvrj dStKcorepa Kal dvoaioj- 
repa yiyverai' dXXorpiov Se KaKov iv dXXco 
yiyvofievov, rov 8e ISiov eKaoro) firj iyyiyvopLevov, 

C jU-T^re ipvxr^v p^i^re dXXo p,rjSev eCopcev ^dvai rivd 
diToXXvadai. 'AAAd p-evroL, ^(f>f], rovro ye ovSeis 
TTore Set^et, cuj ra)v dTTodvrjaKovrojv dSLKcorepai 
at ifwxal Sta rov ddvarov yiyvovrai. 'Eav 8e ye 
rig, €(f)rjv iyco, 6p,6ae rip Xoycp roXpid levat /cat 
Xeyeiv, cos TTOvrjporepos /cat dhiKojrepos yiyverai 
6 diroOvqaKiov, tva 8r) pr) dvayKal^rjrat ddavdrovs 
rds iftvxds opLoXoyelv, d^icocropev ttov, et dXrjdrj 
Aeyet o ravra Xeycov, rrjv dSt/ciW eti^at davdaipov 

D TO) exovri coarrep voaov, /cat vtt* avrov rovrov^ 

diTOKrivvvvros rfj eavrov (j)va€L dTTodvr^aKeiv rovs 

Xap^dvovras avro, rovs p-€v pdXiara ddrrov, 

roiis 8' rjrrov axoXatrepov, dXXd p,rj axjrrep vvv 

^ Toirov scr. Mon. adopted by Hermann, Jowett and 
Campbell, and Adam : rod AFDM, followed by Burnet. 

" For the challenge to refute or accept tlie argument cf. 
Soph. 259 A, 257 a, Gorg. 467 b-c, 482 b, 508 a-b, Phlleb. 

60 D-E. 

* Or " to take the bull by the horns." For o/noo-e Uyai se 
476 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

soul's badness we shall never expect the soul to be 
destroyed by an alien evil apart from its own defect — 
one thing, that is, by the evil of another." " That is 
reasonable," he said. " Either, then, we must refute 
this and show that we are mistaken, or," so long as it 
remains unrefuted, we must never say that by fever 
or any other disease, or yet by the knife at the throat 
or the chopping to bits of the entire body, there is 
any more likelihood of the soul perishing because of 
these things, until it is proved that o^^-ing to these 
affections of the body the soul itself becomes more 
unjust and unholy. But when an e\"il of something 
else occurs in a different thing and the evil that 
belongs to the thing is not engendered in it, we must 
not suffer it to be said that the soul or anything else 
is in this way destroyed." " But you may be sure," 
he said, " that nobody \vill ever prove this, that the 
souls of the dying are made more unjust by death." 
" But if anyone," said I, " dares to come to grips with 
the argument'' and say, in order to avoid being forced 
to admit the soul's immortaUty, that a dying man 
does become more \\icked and unjust, "^ we vill postu- 
late that, if what he says is true, injustice must be 
fatal to its possessor as if it were a disease, and that 
those who catch it die because it kills them by its own 
inherent nature, those who have most of it quickest, 
and those who have less more slowly, and not, as now 

What Plato Said, p. 457, on Euthyph. 3 c. Cf. iyyvi I6vm 
Phaedo 95 b. 

' Herbert Spencer nearly does this : " Death by starvation 
from inability to catch prey shows a falling short of conduct 
from its ideal." It recalls the argument with which Socrates 
catches Callicles in Gorg. 498 e, that if all pleasures are alike 
those who feel pleasure are good and those who feel pain are 
bad. 

477 



PLATO 

oia Tovro vtt' dXXcov Slktjv eTTiTtdevrwv aTTodvq- 
OKovaiv ol aSt/coi. Ma At", rf 8' 69, ovk dpa 
TToivSeivov (j)av€trai r) aSt/cta, el davdainov earai 
rep Xaix^dvovTf dTraXXayr] yap dv eirj KaKibv 
aAAa fxaXXov ot/xai avTrjv (jiaviqaeaQ ai rrdv rov- 
E vavTLOv Tovs dXXovs diTOKTivvvaav, etrrep otov re, 
rov S exovra /cat fxdXa l,wrLK6v vapexovaav, koI 
trpos y en, r<h ^(oriKO) dypvirvov ovrco TToppo) 
TTOV, ojs eoLKev, eaKTjVTqrai rov davdoLfxos elvai. 
AaAoj?, r\v o eyw, Aeyets. oirore yap orj fjurj 
LKavr) T] ye oiKela TTOvrjpia kol ro OLKelov KaKov 
aTTOKrelvat /cat aTToXeaai ^vxjiv, axoXfj ro ye e.'n 
aAAou oXedpcp rerayjxevov KaKOv ipvx'^i' rj ri dXXo 
drToXel, TrXrjV icj)^ S reraKrai. YiXpXfj y', e^rj, 
OJS ye ro et/co?. Ovkovv oirore firjS' V(f>' ivos 
611 aTToXXurai KaKov, p-ijre oi/cetou /XT^re dXXorpiov, 
hr]Xov on dvdyKT] avro del ov elvai, el 8' aet ov, 
dOdvarov. 'AvdyKt], e(f)r]. 

XI. TovTO fxev roivvv, rjv 8' eyd), ovra>s e^eVtu* 
et 8 e^^t, evvoels on del dv elev at avrat. ovre 
yap dv TTOV eXdrrovs yevoivro firjSefjiids diroXXv- 
fievrjs, ovre av nXelovs' el yap onovv rcbv ddavd- 
rcov TrXeov yiyvoiro, olad' on e/c rov dvqrov dv 
yiyvoiro Kai Trdvra dv etrj reXevrojvra dOdvara. 

" For the future indicative after e^ usually minatory or 
monitory in tone, cf. Aristoph. Birds 759, Phileb. 25 d. 

* Cf. Phaedo 107 c, 84 b, Blaydes on Aristoph. Acharn. 757. 
" naka, is humorous, as in 506 d, Euthydem. 298 d, Symp. 

189 A. 

•* Cf. Horace, Epi.tt. i. 2. 32 "ut iugulent hominem 
surgunt de nocte latrones." 

* For the metaphor cf. Proverbs viii. 12 ao^la Kareu K-qvuffOf.^ 
^ov\r]v. Plato personifies injustice, as he does justice ir 
612 D, (TKiaypa^la in 602 d, braver j" in Laches 194 a, Ko\a 
478 



THE REPUBLIC, BOOK X 

in fact happens, that the unjust die owing to this but 
bythe action of others who iniflict the penalty." " Nay, 
by Zeus," he said, " injustice >^'ill not appear a veiy 
terrible thing after all if it is going to be '^ fatal to its 
possessor, for that would be a release from all troubles.^ 
But I rather think it will prove to be quite the con- 
trary, something that kills others when it can, but 
renders its possessor very hvelv indeed," and not only 
lively but wakeful,** so far, I Meen, does it dwell* from 
deadhness." "You say well," I replied; "forwhenthe 
natural \ice and the e\'il proper to it cannot kill and 
destroy the soul, still less f ^vill the e^^l appointed for 
the destruction of another thing destroy the soul or 
anything else, except that for which it is appointed."" 
" Still less indeed," he said, " in all probabihty." 
" Then since it is not destroyed by any e\il whatever, 
either its own or alien, it is evident that it must 
necessarily exist always, and that if it always exists 
it is immortal." " Necessarily," he said. 

XI. " Let this, then," I said, " be assmned to be so. 
But if it is so, you will observ e that these souls must 
always be the same. For if none perishes they could 
not, I suppose, become fewer nor yet more nimierous.'^ 
For if any class of immortal things increased you are 
av*are that its increase would come from the mortal 
and all things would end by becoming inunortal.* " 

«rrtnj in Soph. 229 a, koXo«it£ict Gorg. 4-64 c, fffUKp6mp 
Parmen. 150 a, irov-qpla Apol. 39 a-b, and many other abstract 
conceptions. See further Phileb. 63 a-b, 15 d, 24 a, B^p. 
A65 A-B, Lavs 644 c, Cratyl. 438 d. 

' (TXo>^V • cf. 354 c, Phafdo 106 d. ' Cf. 345 d, 

* Cf. Carveth Read, Man and His Superstitions, p. 104 : 

" Plato thoueht that by a sort of law of psychic conservation 

there must always be the same number of souls in the world. 

There must therefore be reincarnation. ..." 

« Cf. Phaedo 72 c-d. 

479 



PLATO 

AXrjdrj Aeyets. 'AAA', "^v S' eyu), fi-jqre tovto 
B oLcofxeda, 6 yap Xoyos ovk idaei, n'^re ye av rfj 
aXiqOeardrrj (ftvaet, roiovrov elvai ^fj^T^r, oiare. 
7ToXXrJ£ TTOiKiXias /cat a.voixoi,6T7]T6s T€ /cat 8ta- 
(f>opd5 yifxeiv avro rrpog avro. Ild)s Aeyet?; ^(f>V' 
Ov pahiov, r^v S' eyctj, a'chiov elvai avvderov re e/c 
TToXXcov /cat /xiy Trj KoXXiarr] K€Xpf]p-€vov avvOiaei, 
cos vvv TjixTv ecfidvTj rj 0u;\;7], Ovkovv clkos ye. 
"On fjLcv roivvv dddvarov ^v)(r^, /cat o apri Aoyos" 
/cat ol ctAAot dvayKdaeiav dv otov S' ecrrt t^ aA?^- 
C ^eia, ov XeXcjo^iq^jLevov Set avro dedaaadai imo re 
Tr\s Tov aiufjiaros KOLVcovia? /cat d'AAcui' KaKd)V, 
(jiOTTep vvv 'q peels decopeda, dAA' otov eari Kadapov 
yiyvopevov, roiovrov iKavcos Xoyiapd) hiadeareov, 
/cat TToXi) KdXXiov avro evprjaei Kal evapyearepov 
hiKaioavvas re /cat dSt/cta? Stoj/rerat /cat rrdvra d 
vvv SnjXdopev. vvv Se elrropev pev dXrjdrj rrepl 
avrov, olov ev ra> Trapovri ^aiverai- rededpeda 
D pevroL hiaKeipevov avro, oiUTrep ol rov daXdmov 
VXavKov opcovres ovk dv ere paSuios avrov 'iSoiev 
rrjv dp^diav (f>vaiVy vrro rov rd re 77aAatd rov 

" The idea of self-contradiction is frequent in Plato. See 
What Plato Said, p. 505, on Gorg. 482 b-c. 

* ffdvOerov: cf. Phaedo 78 c, Plotinus, Enneades i. 1. 12, 
Berkeley, Principles, § 141 : " We have shown that the soul 
is indivisible, incorporeal, unextended; an