University of California • Berkeley
University of California Bancroft Library/Berkeley
Regional Oral History Office
Walter Clay Lowdermilk
SOIL, FOREST, AND WATER CONSERVATION AND RECLAMATION
IN CHINA, ISRAEL, AFRICA, AND THE UNITED STATES
In Two Volumes
An Interview Conducted by
Ma lea Chal I
Berkeley
1969
VOLUME I
EDUCATION, RESEARCH, AND WORK IN SOIL CONSERVATION
1888-1947
All uses of this manuscript are covered by a
legal agreement between the Regents of the University
of California and Walter Clay Lowdermilk, dated
July 9, 1968. The manuscript is thereby made
available for research purposes. All literary
rights in the manuscript, including the right to
publish, are reserved to The Bancroft Library of
the University of California at Berkeley. No part
of the manuscript may be quoted for publication
without the written permission of the Director of
The Bancroft Library of the University of California
at Berkeley.
Requests for permission to quote for publication
should be addressed to the Regional Oral History
Office, 486 Library, and should include identification
of the specific passages to be quoted, anticipated use
of the passages, and identification of the user. The
legal agreement with Walter Clay Lowdermilk requires
that he be notified of the request and allowed
thirty days in which to respond.
THIS RECITAL OF MY MANY AND VARIED ACTIVITIES
DURING FIFTY YEARS OF STUDIES IN MANY COUNTRIES
IS DEDICATED TO MY WIFE
INEZ MARKS LOWDERMILK
WHO HAS BEEN MY CONSTANT AND HELPFUL COMPANION
TO OUR EXCEPTIONALLY FINE SON AND DAUGHTER
WILLIAM FRANCIS LOWDERMILK AND WINIFRED LOWDERMILK HESS
TO OUR FIVE BRIGHT AND PROMISING GRANDCHILDREN
SHARON AND KAREN LOWDERMILK
WALTER, ALISON, AND CARL HESS
WALTER CLAY LOWDERMILK
MJIM^JQWOJ YAJO ?13TJAW
PREFACE
The following interview with Dr. Walter Clay Lowdermilk was under
taken by the Regional Oral History Office in January 1967 at the request
of Dr. David K. Todd, Professor of Civil Engineering, and Dr. Albert
Lepawsky, Professor of Political Science, both of whom served as fac
ulty advisors for the project. Professor Arthur F. Plllsbury, direc
tor of the Statewide Water Resources Center, agreed with their appraisal
of Dr. Lowdermi Ik's significance in the area of soil and water conserva
tion and made possible a starting grant from the Water Resources Center.
The memoir was planned to cover Dr. Lowdermi Ik's more than fifty years
of conservation and natural resources management, and to chronicle
through his career the development of the soil conservation movement
in the United States, many countries of Europe, the Middle East, Africa,
China, and Japan.
As the project unfolded in its complexity and detail, it became
apparent further funds were needed. Dr. Pillsbury made available two
supplementary grants over the next fiscal year, which, with the Re
gional Oral History Office's own budget, covered the major portion of
the work. Additional funding was contributed by the UC Berkeley de
partments of Soil Sciences, Geography, and Forestry. From the Univer
sity of Wyoming's Western History Research Center came a check to aid
in the indexing, from the Western Jewish History Center of the Judah
L. Magnes Memorial Museum of Berkeley, funds for photographs. Private
citizens, Dr. George Gordon and Professor Samuel Lepkovsky, added
their personal donations.
Two years later the two-volume manuscript was completed, and Dr.
and Mrs. Lowdermilk turned over their extensive collection of papers
to the Bancroft Library for the use of researchers.
Wi I la Klug Baum
Department Head
31 March 1969
486 The Bancroft Library
Regional Oral History Office
University of California at Berkeley
vii
LIST OF AGRICULTURAL INTERVIEWS
The following interviews in fields related to agriculture
and resources management have been completed by the Regional Oral
History Office. Where the interview includes a substantial con
tribution to more than one subject, the name is listed under each
subject heading. Interviews are listed in order of completion.
The Regional Oral History Office was established to tape
record autobiographical interviews with persons who have contributed
significantly to the development of the West. The Office, headed
by Willa Baum, is under the administrative supervision of the
director of The Bancroft Library.
Agriculture and Land
Bancroft, Philip
Hutchison, Claude B.
Miller, John A.
Camp, Wofford B.
Cobb, Cully A.
Lowdermilk, Walter C.
Swett, Frank
Use
Politics, Farming, and the Progressive Party in
California. 1962
The College of Agriculture, University of
California, 1922-1952. 1962
Brentwood Plan for Agricultural Labor. 1963
Cotton, Irrigation, and the AAA. 1968
The Cotton Section of the Agricultural Adjustment
Administration, 1933-1937. 1968
Soil, Forest and Water Conservation and Reclamation
in China, Israel, Africa and the United States. 1968
California Agricultural Cooperatives. 1968
Irrigation and Water Resources
Bartlett, Louis
Downey, Stephen W.
Lambert, Charles F.
Durbrow, William
Jones, Herbert
Mason, J. Rupert
Adams , Frank
Banks, Harvey
Harding, Sidney T.
Leedom, Sam R.
Camp, Wofford B.
Lowdermilk, Walter C.
Packard, Walter E.
Memoirs. 1957
California Water and Power Attorney. 1957
Sacramento Valley Irrigation and Land. 1957
Irrigation District Leader. 1958
California Government and Public Issues. 1958
Single Tax. Irrigation Districts, and Municipal
Bankruptcy. 1958
Irrigation. Reclamation and Water Administration. 1959
California Water Prolect. 1955-1961. 1967
A Life in Western Water Development. 1967
California Water Development. 1930-1955. 1967
Cotton. Irrigation, and the AAA. 1968
Soil, Forest and Water Conservation and Reclamation
in China, Israel, Africa and the United States. 1968
Land and Power Development in California, Greece L and
Latin America. 1968
FOREWORD
SENATOR CARL HAYDEN
In all of my time I have never met a more interesting man to talk
with than Walter Clay Lowdermilk. What he had to say was always worth
while. I first met him in the I930's when he was Assistant Chief of the
Soil Conservation Service in Washington. I then learned that at the age
of fifteen he came from South Carolina with his parents and that his
father located a homestead near Willcox, in the Sulphur Springs Valley,
Cochise County, Arizona.
I remember that he told me he was for three years a student at the
University of Arizona, and then went to England as a Rhodes Scholar to
obtain a degree in geology. Upon his return, he became a Forest Ranger
in the Tonto National Forest in Arizona, where he had an opportunity to
observe the damage done by erosion.
I listened with interest when he told me about the service that he
rendered during a five year period to the people living in the valley
of the Yellow River in China, by demonstrating that flood control was
the only way to prevent starvation. With that background of experience,
he was most helpful to me in securing the enactment of the Soil Conserva
tion Act of April 27, 1935.
I had read it with interest and at my request there was printed in
the Congressional Record of January 27, 1936, the text of an address en-
tit lelT%oTT~Tros~io7rand" Its Control in the United States," by Dr. Walter
C. Lowdermilk, Associate Chief of the Soil Conservation Service, at the
Third International Congress of Soil Sciences in London, August 7, 1935.
It is needless to say that I did not hesitate to call on him to
assist me in the passage by the Senate of the Omnibus Flood Control Act
of June 22, 1936.
In later years, I enjoyed talking with him about his experiences over
a period of ten years in the development of a master water plan for the
irrigation of land in the Jordan Valley and the production of hydroelectric
power for which the people of Israel were most grateful.
Of the many men of distinction that I have come to know during my
f{fty_f|ve years of service in the Congress, there is no one of them who
has done more to make the world a better place for mankind to live by find
ing ways for the development of its soil and water resources.
March 28, 1968
United States Senate
Washington, D.C.
ix
INTRODUCTION
Dr. Walter Clay Lowdermilk, now past eighty-one, has been a path
finder in the development of the theories of erosion: nearly a half
century ago he coined the expression, accelerated erosion, as distin
guished from the geologic norm of erosion. Since then, his concern for
the preservation and proper utilization of the world's land, water, and
forests, has prompted him to conduct major studies in erosion, and to
travel extensively to apply the results of his research to land use
problems in the United States, Europe, Israel and the Middle East,
Africa, China, and Japan. He is well known as the founder of the San
Dimas Forest Experiment Station, and as the author of the important
Jordan Valley Power and Irrigation Project.
This oral history interview became an extensive autobiography of
Dr. Lowdermilk, yet in recording his life we were also chronicling the
development of the soil conservation movement in the United States and
the major areas of the world.
Dr. Lowdermilk was born in Liberty, North Carolina, in 1888, and
grew up on farms in Oklahoma and Arizona. He went to Oxford as a Rhodes
Scholar, studying forestry there with Sir William Schlich and with forst-
meisters in the German forests. Following these years abroad, he re
turned to this country and worked for the United States Forest Service
for a period spanning eighteen years, during which he took time off to
serve with the Lumberjack Regiment of the AEF, to teach forestry and
study erosion in China, and to work for his Ph.D. in Forestry and Geology
in Berkeley.
The next fifteen years he was in Washington, D.C., with the Soil
Erosion/Soil Conservation Service where he played a leading role in
efforts to control erosion in the United States. As Assistant Chief
of the Soil Conservation Service, he helped write the Soil Conservation
Act, the first Omnibus Flood Control Act, and administered research
programs aimed at developing land use measures suitable to the various
geographical sections of the country. This background, during the years
following his retirement from SCS, resulted in his appointments as a
committee chairman on Truman's Water Resources Policy Commission, as a
consultant to the Natural Resources Section of the United Nations Sec
retariat, and as a consultant on soil and water conservation to the gov
ernments of China, Japan, North Africa, West Africa, Yugoslavia, and
Israel. His finding water in the desert community of Morongo, California,
after his second retirement at the age of seventy, was a most interesting
product of his years of study and action in behalf of the management of
natural resources. Presently (1969), Dr. Lowdermilk is a consultant to
the Save-the-Redwoods League.
These various stages of his career and the thoughts he had about
them can be seen by looking at the table of contents. They have obviously
been many, culminating in honors and the sincere expressions of love
and respect from countless people in different countries for the man
who dedicated his life to bringing people into proper relationships
with their land and waters.
One of the aims of this oral history has been to provide material
which could be used by students in many different fields: forest con
servation in America and abroad; the Roosevelt and Truman presidential
periods; American foreign policy, particularly foreign aid; British,
French, and Italian colonial policies in Africa and the Middle East;
Israel; agricultural practices throughout the world; theories of ad
ministration. While this oral history contains so much material for
different specialists, out of it emerges the picture of a man who re
fused to be boxed in physically or intellectually, and whose wide-
ranging knowledge often enabled him to understand and help solve prob
lems which baffled experts.
This refusal to be confined, coupled with his broad interests,
might possibly be the result of Dr. lowdermi I k's background: his par
ents were pioneers, and he grew up on farms in the developing wide open
spaces of the western United States. "I like the feeling of being a
pioneer," he once told me. Another time he said, "It's quite something
to get out and read the story that has been engraved in the land . . .
all those things we've done to it. And then when you look at it from
the point of view of growing foodstuffs for rapidly increasing mankind,
it becomes a problem of highest importance. So to be on the front line
of this kind of exploration is to me quite an exciting thing . . . I 'm
still on that trail and will be as long as I live."
From his early youth to the present, Dr. Lowdermi Ik has always
had a drive to know, a drive to achieve, and a love of challenge.
These drives have been given purpose and direction by considerable
intelligence, creativity, and physical stamina. Such qualities could,
of course, produce a hard-driving, machine- 1 ike human, but add to them
the humility of the scientist, a reverent feeling for nature, a deep
concern for the struggles of humble men, a sense of optimism in the
face of defeat, and a different kind of man emerges.
Partly a reflection of his western American heritage, partly a
reflection of his personal drives, since his days as a Rhodes Scholar
in Oxford, he has carried in his notebook Rudyard Kipling's poem,
"The Explorer," with its refrain:
"Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges—
"Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you.
"Go!"
Both physically and intellectually he has gone "behind the ranges" seek
ing the key problems besetting man in his continuous struggle to survive
on this earth.
Such concern led him to the headwaters of the Yellow River— China's
xi
Sorrow — to find out what caused the silt, for centuries responsible for
floods which had beset the Chinese farmers. The significance of the ero
sion and the incredible gullying that he saw in Northwest China prompted
him to spend a lifetime studying erosion scientifically in order to find
ways to control it.
Without erosion, he reasoned, people could derive proper benefits
from land and water, famine could be prevented, and men thus enabled to
live in harmony with nature and with each other. He expressed this idea
movingly in his famous Eleventh Commandment, which he dedicated to the
pioneer settlers of Israel .
Thou shalt inherit the holy earth as a faithful steward, con
serving its resources and productivity from generation to
generation; thou shalt safeguard thy fields from soil erosion,
thy living waters from drying up, thy forests from desolation,
and protect the hills from overgrazing by the herds, that thy
descendants may have abundance forever. If any shall fail in
this good stewardship of the land, thy fruitful fields shall
become sterile stoney ground or wasting gullies, and thy des
cendants shall decrease and live in poverty or perish from off
the face of the earth.
Despite his many years of hard work attempting to achieve the har
monious relationship between man and the land, this goal seems almost
hopelessly out of reach — perhaps even more than it did fifty years.
Dr. Lowdermilk is saddened by this, but not despairing. Even though
he has witnessed what he believes to have been blunders on the part of
the United States government and other nations in dealing with these
problems; even though some of his own specific projects and plans have
been ignored; even though for years he has seen and understood the prob
lems of the developing countries and has warned that "civilization is
running a race with famine and the outcome is in doubt;" even though
he is disturbed that so much money goes for weapons rather than plows —
he remains quietly optimistic.
For though his great hope is as yet unrealized, progress has
occurred and Dr. Lowdermilk has seen many of his own dreams fulfilled.
"It is unusual, but how gratifying," he says, "for a man to dream dreams,
work hard to make them realities, and live to see them come true."
The Jordan Valley Power and Irrigation Project, his vision of 1939,
helped pave the way for the State of Israel. In Israel, Dr. Lowdermilk
experienced the joy of working with measurable success to control ero
sion and to help develop the land to utilize the benefits of the water
that is available. And the grateful Israelis honored this special man
who came to live and work among them by naming a Department of Agricul
tural Engineering after him. Here, he claims, he wrote his biography
on the land, and it was here that both he and Mrs. Lowdermilk feel they
lived the happiest years of their lives together.
xii
No biography of Dr. Lowdermi Ik can ignore his wife, the very
dynamic, intelligent Inez Marks Lowdermi Ik. She epitomizes the pic
ture of the woman not behind but alongside the man. Her role as devoted
wife and helpmate for forty-six years was cogently expressed by two
speakers at the testimonial dinner honoring Dr. Lowdermi Ik in May, 1944.
Abel Wolman, of Johns Hopkins University, said:
The only thing I want to comment on with respect to them [his
years] is that I do not know how he managed to pack it into
the period in which he has lived, but I suspect that Mrs.
Lowdermi Ik has assisted in the packing. She has covered the
ground with him of course, and if I know the kind of wife
that I understand she is, his life has been made simple.
AM he had to do was traverse the deserts, to cover the
monsoons, but his baggage and his clothes I am sure were
always in good shape and the stimulation which she provided
is one of the reasons why he is here looking fresh and ac
tive and strong enough even to stand this ordeal.
And Dr. Kan Lee, Commercial Counselor to the Chinese Embassy, said:
With the permission of the chairman and our honorable
guests, may I take this occasion to pay a tribute also
to Mrs. Lowdermi Ik, who, before her marriage, was engaged
in pioneering educational work in China. I hope I am not
wrong in saying that it was through her that her husband
first became interested in the problem of soil conserva
tion. She has helped greatly to popularize the valuable
contributions of her husband. Much credit, therefore,
must go to Mrs. Lowdermi Ik as a chief source of inspira
tion for Dr. Lowdermi Ik's soil conservation projects.
Mrs. Lowdermi Ik has the physical stamina equal to that of her hus
band and has been his companion and secretary on almost all the arduous
travels. In addition, an astute observer of people, she has helped him
to a deeper insight into people and places, which she often felt he
missed while he was trudging through the fields concentrating on rocks,
trees, soil, and water.
Never traveling without her portable typewriter, she wrote notes
and helped with drafts of reports and articles. Thus Dr. Lowdermi Ik
was enabled to publish prol if ical ly, to tell people throughout the
United States, Canada, Israel, and parts of Africa, what he saw and
how he felt about it. Occasionally she was an author in her own right:
in the early years of their married life in China, she wrote many ar
ticles for the Dearborn Independent about China and its people, based
upon experiences gained from her years as a missionary in the remote
regions of that country. While living in Washington, D.C., many years
later, she wrote two radio scripts which told about erosion in China
and the United States.
XI I I
Inez Marks, the daughter of a Methodist minister, went to China
as a missionary after college and planned to devote her life to this
work. But she could not forget the student she had met in Arizona, and
eleven years later, much to the dismay of her parents, she married the
young forester and gave up active work in the church. However, she re
mained a missionary if by this is meant a person strongly devoted to a
set of principles who attempts to persuade others to his position.
Through her tireless assistance on behalf of conservation, both human
and material, refugee relief, and Israel; through her efforts at the
typewriter and on the speaker's rostrum; and through her gracious hos
pitality, she has helped persuade others to the position to which she
and Dr. Lowdermilk have devoted their lives.
This is the kind of spirit, coupled with strong self-discipline
and an indomitable will, which enabled Mrs. Lowdermilk to enrich this
oral history with that major portion labeled Written Questions and
Answers. Although in order to help produce it she had to give up many
of the activities which she had begun to enjoy since "retirement," she
never gave up the gardening, or the teas and receptions for friends in
Berkeley and for the many visiting dignitaries from around the world.
After the war in the Middle East in June, 1967, she added to her rou
tine a busy round of lectures on Israel.
She has many interesting stories to tell about her life as the
wife of a VIP in the capitals and the farm fields of the world; we
only taped a few. We get further snatches in some of the reports and
letters which she wrote to her family, excerpts of from which we have in
serted in the manuscript. These personal accounts will be deposited in
the Bancroft Library.
Mrs. Lowdermilk, at seventy-nine, is a tall, rather statuesque
woman with brown hair and bright blue eyes. She dresses in the some
what formal style of most women of her generation. Her voice is strong,
and she speaks articulately and to the point. She likes to read aloud,
and through this means, she and Dr. Lowdermilk cover a wide range of
material together — newspapers, magazines, letters from friends through
out the world, and from their two children, both of whom live away from
Berkeley with their families.
Dr. Lowdermilk, somewhat shorter than his wife, belies his eighty-
one years. He is robust, with a strong, barely lined face, a sturdy
handshake, a shock of white hair (kept trimmed by his wife since she
discovered soon after their marriage that he was always too preoccupied
to remember the barber), and a neatly trimmed white mustache. His eyes
are small, and hidden beneath a massive brow. Their color varies from
brown to green depending on the dominant color of the plaid wool shirt
he is wearing. But when he laughs or smiles, which is often since he
has a finely-honed sense of humor, his eyes disappear.
Unless he is attending a reception or dinner, he dresses inform
ally in his sport shirt and bolo tie. His favorite slide is a mosaic
of a thunderbird, crafted by Zuni Indians. When he speaks, he gestures
xi v
with his hands to emphasize a point, sometimes thumping gently on the
table or desk.
The Lowdermilk home, large and gracious, overlooks a sweeping view
of San Francisco Bay. The furnishings, much of them of museum caliber,
denote the years of travel abroad, with the entrance hall and living
room furnished almost completely with Chinese rugs, tables, screens,
vases, framed pieces of rare Chinese hand work, paintings, and carved
ivory. A massive chest in the living room comes from Korea. Through
out the house are other oriental rugs, and brass and silver trays and
pitchers from the Middle East. There are always flowers in the vases
and pitchers, a combination of artificial blooms and whatever is blos
soming in their well-kept old fashioned garden which is enjoyed by a
variety of birds and several racoons which visit late at night. Throw
ing out bread for the birds and racoons is as important an obligation
as watering.
The study, where we tape recorded, is lined with books showing
Dr. Lowdermilk's many fields of interest, plaques and framed scrolls
indicating his honors and citations, rocks and small dolls and other
bric-a-brac collected from here and there. In addition, the Chinese
screens, the Bokhara rugs on the floor, wall and cot, give it a warm
and cosy air. The desk is full of papers, an indication of on-going
work and study.
The large dining room is Mrs. Lowdermilk's work-hospitality
center. Its furnishings are plainly American: a large table, buffet
and many chairs. The typewriter, papers and mail are usually on the
dining room table, although they may be transferred to a desk on the
glassed-in porch. Here the Written Questions and Answers were developed,
and here is where we had our many conferences, some over lunch or after
noon refreshments.
This table is often quickly and completely cleared of work and
then beautifully set for a festive tea. It is then Mrs. Lowdermilk
uses her priceless dishes, handmade on the potter's wheel of the Dowager
Empress, and decorated with the yellow color which, until the Manchus
were deposed, was permitted only on the Empress' table. (Many years
after Mrs. Lowdermilk acquired her dishes, Chiang Kai-shek gave a similar
set to Queen Elizabeth of England as a wedding gift.)
Developing this oral history has been a stimulating experience, al
beit a long and demanding one, for the Lowdermilks, and for me, the
interviewer. Because they desired a thorough document, they were will
ing to tackle this project with the kind of drive and vitality which,
I suspect, they have brought to all their challenging assignments.
Ma lea Chall, Interviewer
31 March 1969
xv .
THE TRIBUNE, Oakland, California
July 1989
Inez M. Lowdermilk
dies in Oakland at 99
TO* Tribunt
Inez Marks Lowdermilk, a
writer, world traveler, and
noted educator and lecturer,
died Thursday in Oakland.
She was 99.
As a girl, Mrs. Lowdermilk,
a native of Oregon, wanted to
do something worthwhile
with her life. So in 1916 —
after graduating with honors
from the University of South
ern California — the Method
ist Church sent her on a five-
year mission to China's re
mote Szechuan Province,
where she opened IS girls'
schools.
Upon her return,, she mar
ried Walter Lowdermilk. who
became an internationally
known environmentalist and
helped establish the U.S. Soil
Conservation Service. To
gether, they began a life of
travel and work around the
world.
With their neighbor, author
Pearl Buck, they barely es
caped with their lives in the
1927 "Nanking Incident" in
China, in which revolutionary
soldiers swept in to destroy
foreigners.
Many years later, they vis
ited the Holy Land, where as
devout Christians, they be
came staunch supporters of
Israel.
Mrs. Lowdermilk was later
instrumental in starting the
Berkeley Chapter of Hadas-
sah and the California Chris
tian Committee for Israel.
Inez Marks Lowdermilk
Barely escaped in China
She would also become a
popular lecturer, a legendary
hostess and a radio personali
ty, broadcasting to American
farmers on the National
Farm and Home Hour.
In an interview at her
Berkeley home with The
Tribune in 1982, Mrs. Lowder
milk, then 92, reflected on her
life, saying: "... I'm driven. I
say to myself, 'If you're need
ed for something, do it. If you
feel tired, do it anyway.' "
Mrs. Lowdermilk is sur
vived by a daughter, Winifred
Hess, of Gaithersburg, Md ; a
son, William Lowdermilk, of
Stiver Springs. Md.; five
grandchildren and four great
grandchildren.
Funeral arrangements are
pending.
San Francisco Sunday Examiner and Chronicle
July 30, 1989
Humanitarian
Inez Marks
Lowdermilk dies
By Eric Brazil
OF TW EXAMINER STAFF
Inez Marks Lowdermilk, author,
educator and humanitarian, whose
life of commitment and adventure
had wide-ranging international im
part . is dead at age 99.
Mrs. I,owdermilk died Thurs
day in an Oakland retirement
home.
A native of Oregon, reared in
Southern California, energetic and
idealistic, young Inez Marks de
parted on an epic journey to China
after her 1916 USC graduation.
She traveled far up the Yangt.se
Kiver in China, then overland into
Szechuan. 1,000 miles beyond the
nearest railhead, as a Methodist
educational missionary.
"I was appalled to find girls who
rould not read or write, for there
were no schools to attend, except in
cities," she recalled in a newspaper
interview a decade ago. "All the
girls hobbled painfully on small
stumps of crippled, bound feet."
•Hy 1924. Mrs. I/owdermilk had
upsned 15 schools with more than
i>00 female students, trained 26
teachers and traveled thousands of
miles afoot and in sedan chair
through the Chinese hinterlands.
~Sh« became an influential force in
the campaign that abolished the
custom of foot binding.
., Jn 1922. she married Dr. Ralph
,-Clay I-owdermilk, then the head of
,ap^ American-sponsored famine
prevention program at Nanking
Union University. In Nanking she
'WHS a neighbor and fast friend of
Nobel Prize-winning American au
thor Pearl Buck.
Dr. Lowdermilk. who died in
1974, achieved world acclaim as an
authority on soil conservation and
reclamation.
Mrs. I/owdermilk. a tall woman
usually described in newspaper ar
ticles as "stately." was an active
participant in her husband's
globe-trotting work and a prolific
journalist.
1977 FILE PHOTO
Mrs. Lowdermilk helped bring
about much change in Israel.
A 19;<9 visit to Palestine
changed their lives.
Not only had the land been
wrecked by centuries of erosion.
but t he Jewish people were ravaged
by the Holocaust and wracked by
the violent birth pangs of Israel.
"Mother went hack to America
to tell the tragedy of Jewish suffer
ing," said her daughter, Mrs. Win
ifred Hess of Gaithersburg. Md.
Mrs. Ixiwdermilk raised funds for
rescuing European Jewish children
and bringing them to Israel. She
founded the Berkeley-based Chris
tian Committee for Israel.
In 1942. she and her husband
co-authored "Palestine: Land of
Promise." The book's thesis was
that Israel could support millions
more Jews by effectively utilizing
its natural resources. It became a
document that influenced the Unit
ed Nations vote establishing the
Jewish slate.
In all. the Lowdermilks worked
in Israel for six years during the
1950s. Dr. Lowdermilk's work had
such far-reaching effects on Israel
that he is regarded as the father of
its water plan and modern agricul
ture.
Dr. Moses Cyrus Weller. a Jew
ish National Fund representative,
once quipix-d: "Israel is a land flow
ing with Lowdermilk and honey."
Israel's Institute ot Technology at
Haifa was renamed the Lowder
milk School of Agricultural Engi
neering.
Ai age 88. Mrs I/owdermilk was
writing her biography. "All in a
Lifetime," which was privately
published in 1985. "At my age. I
guess one is expected to be sitting
in a rocking chair. But I can't. Ev
en' day is crammed full of activi
ties. Why, I'm even busier than
when I was 86 or 87," she told an
interviewer.
Israel and China remained abid
ing interests throughout her life.
She visited Israel in 1976 to dedi
cate a new forest in memory of her
husband. And she was still
boarding visiting women students
from China at her Berkeley home
while in her 90s..
"Her energy1 amazed me, and it
amazed everybody else," said Mrs.
Hess.
In addition to her daughter.
Mrs. Lowdermilk is survived by her
son William I/owdermilk of Silver
Springs.. Md.. five grandchildren
and four great-grandchildren.
No funeral service will be held.
Contributions may be made to the
Lowdermilk Scholarship Fund,
Haifa Technion University, Haifa.
Krael. in her name.
Arrangements were made by
!. N'ary-Morgan-Engel & Jackson
"i Oakland.
LpWO£KMILK.IntxM*rkl — InOJKuno ju'v
}'. 1989. wife of me late Wilier Ci»y Low-
ae-miiH. motner o( Winifred Hess of Gann-
• 'iOu'K. Md and W.lham LOwaermilK o<
Silver Sor "US M 0 . also Survived Oy five
:'f.*nacn'idren and four great crandcntid-
•• i .1 well Known writer, educator and
•"•turer.a rati veol Oregon aged 99 years
No services neia Contributions may oe
•MClt? to tne Lowdermilk Scholarship Funo
o Amer.ca'i T«nn.on Society. 170 Mar-
•••• S- %l SF 9410?. in ner name
Arrangement! Ot McNARY-MORGAN-EN
GEL i JACKSON
INTERVIEW HISTORY
Research and Planni ng
This oral history comprises two sections, the Written Questions
and Answers, and the Taped Questions and Answers. The written portion
is a unique addition to the oral memoir, but its presence indicates
the flexibility of oral history in gathering historical material.
It was Dr. and Mrs. Lowdermilk's feeling that he had covered too
much territory, both physically and intellectually, for a complete ac
counting of his life's work by the usual taping method. After consid
erable discussion, and some trial and error, the Lowdermilks and the
interviewer devised a special working arrangement which would permit
their story to be told as completely as possible.
Dr. Lowdermilk's life was divided chronologically into periods
based on his particular activities during his eighty-one years. After
reading his publications and other relevant material, and conferring
with the Lowdermilks, the interviewer gave them a detailed outline of
questions relating to each period a week or more in advance of each
writing-interview stage.
The Lowdermilks then painstakingly searched their memories, read
their letters, diaries, published and unpublished reports and articles,
reviewed the facts and emotions of the period, and came up with answers
and comments. Mrs. Lowdermilk typed these in dialogue form in order to
retain the character of the taped interview. She composed questions to
cover items suggested in the outline, or to bring out some other impor
tant information which they wanted to discuss. Needless to say, this
allows the interviewer to seem exceptionally erudite.
Following submission of this written material, if the interviewer
thought that the subject required more detail or greater depth, she
prepared additional questions and then taped an interview with Dr. Low-
dermilk. One taping usually completed the subject, but the complexi
ties of fifteen years with the Soil Conservation Service and six years
in Israel required many taping sessions for each of these periods.
Time and Setting of_ the Interview
Altogether there were twenty-two taping sessions between March,
1967, and April, 1968. Most were held once a week, but occasionally
a month or two would elapse between recorded interviews. When taping.
Dr. Lowdermilk and the interviewer worked alone in his study; the two
interviews with Mrs. Lowdermilk took place, however, in the dining room
when the three of us were having lunch.
xv i
Editing
The interviewer edited the transcript and the written questions
and answers at the same time. Most overlapping and duplication were
cut from the transcript. Some material was rearranged in order to
develop a topic as clearly as possible. Such editing has done away
with some of the conversational tone, but because this interview Is
so long and so detailed, we decided that setting forth the facts and
providing for ease of research was of primary importance.
Beginning in February, 1968, the edited manuscript, one or two
chapters at a time — both written and taped — was given to the Lowder-
milks for their final editing. Mrs. Lowdermilk reviewed it all first,
noting changes she thought important, then read it aloud to Dr. Low-
dermilk. At this point they discussed further editing, cut duplication
that had remained, and further tightened the style. Here too they in
serted information which had occurred to them while they reviewed the
manuscript, or answered questions which the interviewer had thought of
in the interim between research, taping, and editing. By May I, in
record time, they had completed the editing.
Format
The interviewer has been responsible for the arrangement of the
chapters, the titles and the sub-headings, in both the written and
taped sections, providing many of each in order to help chart a way
through this lengthy and fact-filled document. The thirty-three single
pages from reports and letters which are inserted, wherever relevant,
in the document have not been listed separately. They refer the re
searcher to the scope of additional source material which the Lowdermilks
have given to the Bancroft Library.
The index is intended to supplement the table of contents. Subject
matter clearly defined in the sub-headings has not been indexed. The
researcher will need to use both the index and table of contents to find
the information he seeks.
xvii
INTERVIEW SCHEDULE
Date
1. March 13, 1967
2. March 14
3. March 20
4. March 22
5. March 27
6. March 30
7. April 27
8. May 4
9. May 31
10. June 15
11. July 12
12. July 19
13. July 26
14. September 26
15. October 3
16. October 13
17. October 24
18. October 31
19. November 7
Subject
Family background
Schooling in Missouri, Arizona and Oxford
Forest Service: Tonto National Forest
Tenth Engineers, AEF
Forest Service: Missoula, Montana
China: first trip
Mrs. Lowdermilk talks about the Nanking Incident
China: second trip
Mrs. Lowdermilk talks about experiences in
Washington, D. C. and Israel
Soil Conservation Service
Soil Conservation Service (cont'd.)
Survey of Europe and the Middle East
Survey of Europe and the Middle East (cont'd.)
Survey of Europe and the Middle East (cont'd.)
Soil Conservation Service (cont'd.)
FAO Technical Committee on Forestry and
Forest Products
French North Africa
British Colonial Africa
United Nations Secretariat
Truman's Water Resources Policy Commission
Israel: the Jewish farmer
The Eleventh Commandment
Israel: Soil Conservation Service
Israel: Department of Agricultural Engineering
xvi ii
20. February 6, 1968 Israel : Department of Agricultural Engineering
(cont'd.)
Other activities, people in Israel
21. February 13 Loyalty investigation
22. April I Redwoods
XI X
Walter Clay Lowdermilk
BRIEF BIOGRAPHY
1888 Born July I, Liberty, North Carolina.
1912-15 Rhodes Scholar, Oxford: Forestry and Geology.
1914 Belgium Relief Commission.
1915-17 United States Forest Service, Tonto National Forest, Arizona.
1917-20 World War I, Tenth Engineers, A.E.F.
1920-22 United States Forest Service, Missoula, Montana.
1922 Marriage to Inez Marks, August 15.
1922-27 Professor of Forestry, Union University of Nanking, China.
1927-29 Ph.D., University of California, Berkeley: Forestry and Geology.
1929-33 Founded San Dimas Hydrological Experiment Station and other
Forest Experiment Stations.
1933-47 Assistant Chief, Soil Erosion Service and Soil Conservation
Service, Washington, D.C.
1938-39 Surveyed erosion in Europe and Middle East for Department of
Agriculture.
1 942 Wrote Palestine, Land o_f_ Promise.
1942-44 China: Consultant to Executive Yuan on erosion control and
agricultural production.
1945 Paricutin, Mexico: Group leader for National Research Council
on study of erosion in volcanic ash.
1948 Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia: Consultant to French Colonial
government on problems of soil erosion and methods of con
serving farm, pasture lands and forests.
1949 British West Africa: Consultant to British Colonial office
and British and American missionary societies in eleven coun
tries, to appraise local problems related to conservation of
land and water.
1950 United States: Chairman, Basic Data Committee, Truman Water
Resources Policy Commission.
1951 Japan: Advisor to Allied Powers on erosion and flood control.
1951-53 Israel: Consultant (FAO) on development of soil and water
program.
1954 United Nations, New York: Assigned to develop a coordinated
water program for the U.N.
xx
1955-57 Israel: Consultant (FAO) on development of a Department of
Agricultural Engineering at Tech n ion- Israel Institute of
Technology.
1957 Yugoslavia: Consultant (FAO) on integration of land and
water policies for the Cetina River Valley.
1958-62 Morongo Valley, California: Directed search for water for
residents of the area where Lowdermilks had a retirement home.
1962- Berkeley, California: Consultant to Save-the-Redwoods League;
Research Associate, Geography Department, UCB.
xx i
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Vo I ume I
EDUCATION, RESEARCH, AND WORK IN SOIL CONSERVATION, 1888-1947
Preface v j j
Foreword by Senator Carl Hayden ix
Introduction x
Interview History xvi
Walter Clay Lowdermilk — A Brief Biography xx
I CHILDHOOD AND EDUCATION, I 888-1 91 5
[Written questions and answers] I
Early Education and Work 2
Life at Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar, 1912-1915 4
Work With Belgium Relief Commission, 1914
Graduating From Oxford 10
[Taped questions and answers] 13
Parents and the Westward Migration 13
Brothers and Sisters 16
Early Education
Training in the German Forests, 1912-1915 18
Herr Forstmeister Hebe I, Specialist in
Growing Oak For Furniture 20
Americans Learn Forest Management in Germany
The British Foresters
Study Methods in Oxford 24
II THE FOREST SERVICE, 1915-1917
[Written questions and answers]
Ranger in the Tonto National Forest
Santa Fe National Forest 26
xxi i
[iTaped questions and answers]] 28
Tonto National Forest 28
Lumbermen vs. Government 29
Cattlemen vs. Sheep Men 30
Personal Challenges 32
Santa Fe National Forest 33
III THE LUMBERJACK REGIMENT, 1917-1920
[Written questions and answers] 35
The Voyage to Europe 35
Timber Acquisition Officer 36
Settling Timber Account After the Armistice 36
Commission on War Damages in Invaded Regions 37
CTaped questions and answers] 38
Timber Acquisition Officer 38
Settling the Two Million Dollar Claim 38
Commission on War Damages in Invaded Regions 40
IV THE FOREST SERV ICE—MI SSOULA, MONTANA, 1920-1922
CWritten questions and answers] 42
Appointed Regional Research Officer 42
Problems of Slash Disposal 44
Development of Forest Conservation in the
the United States 46
Forestry Pioneers 47
[Taped questions and answers] 50
Duties as Research Officer 50
Slash Disposal
Plant Succession
Forestry Pioneers 57
V CHINA, 1922-1927
CWritten questions and answers] 59
Lowdermilk's Marriage and Decision to go to China 60
Developing the Theory of Man-Made Erosion 61
The Yellow River and Silt 61
Temple Forests Thrive Amid Eroded Land 63
Setting up Experiments to Find out the Facts 64
Lowdermilk Set in Direction of His Life's Work
Reporting the Results of Experimentation 65
xx i i i
Hwai River 55
Other Studies Reported 67
Theory on Famine 68
Prospects for the Future 70
Studies of Typhoons and Floods 72
The Nanking Incident 73
THEY INTENDED US TO DIE AT 3:30 P.M. 74
Comment on the Nanking Incident 80
The Return to the United States 81
[Taped questions and answers] 82
Methods of Determining and Carrying Out Research 82
Contacts With Other Scientists 83
Visual Evidence of Erosion in China 84
Measuring Runoff and Erosion 84
Reaction of Chinese Scholars to Field Work 86
Reading the Ancient Chinese Gazetteers 89
The Hwai River Report 90
Joint Expedition With 0. J. Todd to see
Effects and Meaning of Silt 91
Solving Problems Caused by Erosion 94
LowdermMk Finds His Life Work 95
Forestry in China in the 1920's 96
Memories of Pearl Buck 99
Mrs. Lowdermilk Tells of Her Experiences
During the Nanking Incident 100
The Voyage Back to the United States 107
Decision About the Future 108
VI STUDYING FOR THE DOCTORATE, 1927-1929
[Written questions and answers] 110
Decision to Get a Ph.D. I 10
Experimentation on Runoff and Erosion Begins 110
Devising and Maintaining the Soil Tanks
Artificial Rain
Soil Tubes
Summary of Findings
Definition of Accelerated Erosion
Receiving the Ph.D. 116
[Taped questions and answers]
Review of a Century of Literature
The Berkeley Experiments
Geology
Use of the Progressive Hypothesis
Professor Louderback
Evaluating Experimental Data for Thesis
xx iv
VII FOREST EXPERIMENT STATIONS AND SAN DIMAS, 1929-1933
[Written questions and answers] 121
Forest Experiment Centers |2I
Developing the San Dimas Experiment 122
Specifications 122
Locating the Watershed 123
A New Design for Forest Service Buildings 124
Experiments 125
Recharging Ground Waters 126
Fire of I960 12?
Using the C.C.C. |28
Colleagues In San Dimas 128
Edward Kotok 129
The Depression |30
Building the Family Home 131
Appointment to the Soil Erosion Service 133
Meeting Rexford Tugwell 133
Tugwell Sends Lowdermilk to Washington 134
Reunions at San Dimas 135
VIM THE YEARS IN WASHINGTON, 1933-1947
[Written questions and answers] 136
Part I The Soil Erosion Service, 1933-1935 136
Arrival in Washington 136
Activity at Headquarters 137
Hiring Personnel 138
Sedimentation Study 138
Aerial Mapping 139
Field Work 141
Navajo Indian Reservation 141
Gila River: The San Simon Wash and the
Cattlemen 143
Early Work on Omnibus Flood Control Act of 1936 146
Taylor Grazing Act 146
Attitudes of Cattlemen 147
Transfer of Soil Erosion Service to
Department of Agriculture 148
Passing the Soil Conservation Act 150
Relations With Extension Service and Farm
Bureau Federation 150
Part 2 The Soil Conservation Service, 1935-1938 151
Reasons for Districts in Soil Conservation Service 151
Ben James1 Farm
Developing the Districts
Success of Districts
Reasons for Regional Administration 157
xxv
Relations With A. A. A. 158
Coordination of Specialists: The Farm Planner 159
Obtaining Cooperation of Farmers |6I
Ingenious Fanner: Sam Gowder |62
Demonstration Areas (54
Lowdermilk Appointed Chief of Research |65
Research Programs [55
Erosion Experiment Stations 166
Puerto Rico 167
Sedimentation Studies 168
Relations With Other Organizations [70
Relations With TVA |7|
Shelterbelt Project 172
Use of Civilian Conservation Corps 174
Duties 175
Management 176
Flaw in Recruitment |77
Extent of Erosion in U.S. in I930's 178
Life in Washington 179
Cosmos Club |80
Appointment to Survey Old Lands in Europe
and the Middle East 180
Part 3 The Soil Conservation Service, 1939-1947 182
Return to Washington 182
Friendship With Justice Brandeis 182
Speaking Tour Across the U.S. 184
Heart Attack and Recuperation 185
Writing Palestine, Land of Promise 187
Publishing Palestine, Land of Promise 188
Commendation Dinner 192
Various Activities, 1944-1947 193
Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry
on Palestine 193
Decision to Retire 195
[Japed questions and answers!) 198
Part 1 The Soil Erosion Service and the Soil
Conservation Service, 1933-1938 198
Knowledge of Erosion in 1933 198
Controversies Among Specialists 199
Bennett vs. Kellogg: The Extent of Erosion 199
Silt Problems in Reservoirs 201
Reasons for Sedimentation Studies 202
Soils Men Interpreting Erosion 203
Whitney and Marbut 203
Demonstration of Erosion 204
Problems of Recording Erosion
Foresters: Changing Concepts
Plant Men vs. Engineers
Integration and Coordination of Specialists 207
xxv i
Wood lots 207
Gu I I 1 es 209
Farm Ponds 209
Getting Cooperation of the Fanner 211
Philosophy Regarding Cooperation With the Farmer 211
Soil Conservation Districts Designed to
Achieve Cooperation 213
Hiring the Social Psychologist 213
The Soil Conservation Service and the Extension
Service 214
Background of the Controversy 215
Examples of Difficulties 215
Lowdermilk's Three Lines of Defense Against
Erosion 217
Controversy Between Engineers and Agronomists 218
Research in Soil Conservation Service 220
Experiment Station: Coshocton, Ohio 220
Guthrle, Oklahoma 222
Aerial Surveys and Land Classification 224
Administration of Research 225
Financing 225
Organizing 226
Techniques of Administration 227
Omnibus Flood Control Act of 1936 228
Arthur C. Ringland Analyzes the Administration
of the Act 228
Conflict With the Corps of Engineers 229
Multi-purpose Projects 230
Communal Forests 231
Memorable Relationships 23la
Henry Wai lace 232
Harold I ekes 234
Reaction to Department of Conservation 234
M. L. Wi Ison
Isaiah Bowman 236
The Library of Congress: Dr. Herbert Putnam
Use of Gazetteers
China, as Background for Conservation
Mi I ton Eisenhower
Louis Bromfield 240
Part 2 The Soil Conservation Service, 1939-1947
Changes in Research Program
Relations With Bennett
Gi Ibert Grosvenor
Soil Conservation Districts
Speaking Tour Through the United States
Farmers Are Important
Children Understand
"Conquest of the Land"
Conservation and the Churches 251
xxv i i
Writing a General Report of the Survey Trip 252
Theories on Regulating the Use of Land 252
Development of Theories of Water Rights 254
Individual Enterprise and Regulation 255
Flood Control Act of 1944 256
Watershed Development: Urban and Agricultural 258
Technical Committee on Forestry and Forest Products 259
Measuring Needs of Woods 260
FAO and Forestry 260
Justice Louis Brandels 261
Mrs. Lowdentiilk Tells About Washington, D.C. 262
White House Receptions 262
Mrs. Roosevelt and the Girls' Reformatory 263
Herbert Hoover 264
Soil Conservation Service: Missionary Zeal 265
xxv i 1 1
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Vo I ume I I
CONSULTANT ABROAD AND AT HOME, 1938-1968
IX TRAVELS ABROAD WHILE ASSISTANT CHIEF OF THE
SOIL CONSERVATION SERVICE
Part I Land Use Survey of Europe and the
Middle East, 1938-1939
[Written questions and answers] 266
Planning the Trip and its Objectives 266
England 269
Holland 271
Land From the Sea 271
Bicycles 274
Lowdermilk Children Analyzed Holland 275
Belgium Prepares for War 275
France 276
Reclaiming Land From Sand Dunes 276
Fish Ponds 278
Strip Cropping by Inheritance 280
Farming on Ancient Phoenician Terraces 282
Exploring Caves 283
Torrents and Mud Flows 284
Italy 288
Hi I Iside Architecture 289
Reclaiming the Pontine Marshes 290
Breaking Up Large Estates 293
Sicily 294
Guidelines for Survey in North Africa 295
Destruction of Roman Culture and Agriculture 296
Traveling Through Tunisia 297
El Djem 297
Timgad 298
Speitla 300
Djemila 300
Agriculture and the Romans 301
French Reclamation in North Africa 301
Experiencing Cold and Rain in North Africa 303
Preparations for War
Libya
Ital ian Colonization
Analysis of Italian Colonization 308
xx ix
Ital ian Officials 309
Cities in Libya 310
Egypt 310
Agriculture 31 1
Critique of the Aswan Dam 312
Crossing Into Palestine Through Sina! 314
Palestine 315
Surveying Palestine With Archaeologists 316
Trans-Jordan 318
Meeting Leading Scientists and Officials
in Palestine 319
Evaluating the Settlements 321
Balfour Declaration 322
Report on Settlements 323
Arab-Jewish Problems and the White Paper 323
Developing the Idea for the Jordan Valley
Authority 325
The Eleventh Commandment 326
I raq 328
Following the Pipe Line Through the Mud 328
Decline of the Garden of Eden: Erosion and Silt 331
Cain and Abel 332
Old and the New in Iraq 334
Iraq: Empty Breadbasket 335
Babylon
Lebanon 336
Phoenician Terraces
Problems of Farming the Terraces in Lebanon 338
Cedars of Lebanon 339
Visiting the Human Cargo Boats: Jewish Refugees 340
Syria 341
The Dead Cities: Erosion at its Worst 342
Saint Simon 342
The Dead Cities: Prosperity and Destruction 343
Water Resources in Syria
Baalbek 345
Other Ancient Sites 346
Cyprus
Forests, Old and New
Erosion and Si It
Solutions to Land Use Problems 350
Returning to the United States
Part I Land Use Survey of Europe and the
Middle East, 1938-1939
[Taped questions and answers]
Surveys of Old Lands Seen as a Challenge
Clarence Cannon's Interest in Land Use Survey
Thoughts on Dr. Lowdermilk's Appointment
Attitudes of Europeans Toward Impending War
XXX
Dr. Lowdermilk Analyzes the Munich Pact and Other
Problems of the Survey 357
Traveling With the Family 358
McKnight: From Secretary to Attache 360
Land Use Practices in Italy 36 |
British Mandate, American and Jewish Agency
Officials in Palestine 362
Planting Forests 363
Agriculture 364
Judah Magnes 355
Arab Scientists 365
Understanding Erosion in Europe and the Middle East 366
Developing Ideas About Agricultural Archaeology 367
Nelson Glueck 368
Yigael Yadln 368
P. L. 0. Guy 369
Sir Flinders Petrie 369
C. S. Jarvis 370
Theories on the Devastation of Land: Climate
Versus Culture 370
French Scientists Study the History of Land Use 372
Berbers 373
Jewish Settlements 373
Frederick Clements 374
Controlling Climate 375
Comparing Terracing Practices of Ancient Peoples 375
The Making of a Research Scientist 377
Professor Bessy — Great Teacher 377
The Eleventh Commandment 378
Part 2 Return to China, 1942-1944
[^Written questions and answers] 379
Harrowing Journey to China 380
Flying Over Africa and the Middle East 382
Flying Over India to China 383
Mrs. Lowdermilk Waits for News 383
The Flight to Chungking 384
The Terraces of Szechwan 385
Arriving in Chungking 385
Life in Chungking 386
A Critique of Pre-War Japanese-U.S. Relations 387
Meeting Old Friends
Preparing For the Project 389
Opening the Waters at Kwanshien 390
The Staff 392
Graves Near the Cities 393
Traveling Into Northwest China
Establishing Demonstration Projects
Tienshui
Si king 396
XXX i
More Silt in the King River 397
Settling the Refugees 397
Hwakial ing 393
Life in Caves 399
Dr. Lowdermilk Given Precious Gifts 400
Traveling to Tibet 400
The Great Wall of China 400
Touring Tibet: Lake Koko-Nor 401
Kumbum 401
Recommendations for Pilot Projects Denied by the
American Government 403
Official American Attitude Toward Aid to China 404
The Chinese Farmer: An Evaluation 405
Part 2 Return to China, 1942-1944
D~aped questions and answers] 408
The Chinese Staff 408
Instructions to Staff 408
Developing Engineering Plans 409
Working With the Farmers 410
Pebble Mulching 411
Revegetation of Gullies 412
Roads 412
Part 3 Study of Erosion in Paricutin, Mexico, 1945
[Written questions and answers] 414
Origin of the Volcano 414
Experiences at Survey Headquarters 416
Organizing the Study 417
Reaction of Villagers 418
Studies of Erosion in Volcanic Ash 419
Floods and Mud Flows 419
Boulders 420
Summary of Study 421
Pub I i cations 422
X CONSULTANT TO GOVERNMENTS IN FRENCH NORTH AFRICA, 1948
[Written questions and answers] 423
French Protectorate Officials 423
Morocco 424
Goat Culture 425
Difficulties Involved in Modernizing Agriculture 426
French Farmers in Morocco 427
Franklin Roosevelt's Statement 428
French Provide Benefits to the Population
Field Trips Throughout Morocco 430
xxx i i
Unique Trees 431
Chain of Wei Is 432
Moroccan Independence 433
Report and Recommendations 434
Algeria 435
Agricultural Practices and Attitudes 435
Banquette Terraces 436
Marshal I Plan Aid 437
Agriculture in the Sahara 438
Finding Water on the Desert 439
Converting Dry Lakes to Reservoirs 440
The Berbers 441
Report and Recommendations 442
French-Algerian Relations 442
Tunisia 443
Problems of Overgrazing 444
Report and Recommendations 444
Jews in North Africa 445
Lowdermilks Adopt a Moroccan Jewish Family 445
[Taped questions and answersU 447
Analysis of the French as Colonial Governors 447
Lowdermilk Challenges American State Department
Official 448
Handling the Population Increase 449
Thoughts on Independence 451
XI CONSULTANT TO BRITISH AFRICAN COLONIES, 1949-1950
[Written questions and answers!] 452
Scope of the Project 452
Plans for the Tour 453
Africa: From the Air and on the Ground 453
Summary of Findings 454
British West Africa 455
Colonial Practices 455
Water Resources Not Developed 457
Agriculture Not Developed 457
Shifting Cultivation and its Consequences 458
Suggestions for Increasing Food Production 460
Fertilizer 460
Roads, Railroads, Machinery 461
Increase Prices 462
Cooperatives 463
Colonial Policies Retard Progress in Agriculture
Analysis of the African as a Farmer 465
Male-Female Roles 465
Witchcraft 466
Tribal Chiefs 467
Lack of Personal Responsibility for Land 468
xxx i i i
Mistrust of Government 470
Mistrust of the White Man 471
Education: Inadequate and Misdirected 473
Emphasis on Administration: Not Land
Development 475
Problems of Under-educated Youth 476
Suggestions for Improving Education 477
Summary of Suggestions 480
Conclusions Regarding the African as a Farmer 481
Memorable Experiences of the Tour 484
Itu Leper Colony 484
Ashanti Chiefs Honor the Lowdermilks 485
The Missing Corpse 487
Life in a Mission Village 488
Other Missions 489
Stranded in a Swamp 490
Africa's Future 490
L~ Taped questions and answers] 493
John Reisner 493
How Dr. Lowdermilk Wins a Farmer's Confidence 494
Groundnut Fiasco in Tanganyika 495
Critique of British Colonial Policy 497
Southern Rhodesia 499
Lowdermilk Turns Down Offer to Live in
Southern Rhodesia 500
Ants in Africa 501
Other Experiences in Africa 503
XII WATER RESOURCES POLICY COMMISSION, 1950
CWritten questions and answers] 505
Lowdermilk Requested to Serve on the Commission 505
Organization of the Commission 506
Reason for the Study 507
River Basins to be Considered as a Unit of
Development 509
Commission Recommendations
Ohio River 51 I
Rio Grande River
Alabama-Coosa River
Conclusion 515
CTaped questions and answers]
Morris L. Cooke 516
Electricity Comes to a Farmhouse
Washington During the New Deal
Origin of the Water Policy Commission
Concepts of Flood Plain Zoning 519
xxx iv
Basic Data Committee 520
XIII TRAVEL IN JAPAN: TWO VISITS— 1926, 1951
[Written questions and answers] 522
Third Pan Pacific Science Congress 522
Lowdermilk Reads Paper on Causes of Soil
Erosion in China 524
Consultant on General Douglas MacArthur's Staff 525
Soil and Water Problems in Japan 526
Geologic Erosion 527
Erosion Control 528
Rice Paddies 529
Flood Control on the Akui River 530
Sabo Dams 531
Problems With Mud Flows 532
Japan: Pilot Area in Erosion Control 532
Tone River Basin 533
Using Models 534
Competition for Land 534
Analysis of the Japanese Farmer 535
Agriculture in Postwar Japan 535
Reports 536
Education 537
[Taped questions and answers] 538
Meeting an Old Friend 538
General Douglas MacArthur 539
Wolf Ladejinsky 539
XIV A YEAR WITH THE UNITED NATIONS, 1954
[Written questions and answers] 540
Concern For Rivers Shared by Two or More Countries 541
Critique of the Aswan Dam 541
Development of the Jordan River Thwarted 543
Suggestions for the Tigris-Euphrates Basin 544
U. N. Prefers Mekong Delta 544
Other Assignments 545
Colleagues 546
[Taped questions and answers] 547
Dr. and Mrs. Lowdermilk Caught in the McCarthy
Fly Trap
Accusations Listed 548
Clearance
United Nations Activity in Mekong River Basin
Working Arrangements in the U. N. 554
XXXV
Dr. Lowdermi I k's Report 556
Col leagues 557
Life in New York 557
XV THE YEARS IN ISRAEL, 1951-1964
Part I Developing the Soil Conservation Service, 1951-1953
[Written questions and answers] 559
Dr. Lowdermi Ik Offers to Work in Israel 560
Starting to Work 561
Talking About Erosion 562
Classifying the Land 563
Draining the Swamps 565
F.A.O. Hires Dr. Lowdermilk to Work in Israel 566
Putting New Citizens to Work on the Land 566
Field Work 568
Developing Water Resources 569
Dr. Lowdermilk Writes About Israel 571
The Lowdermi Iks Enjoy Living in Israel 573
Extraordinary Agricultural Production 574
Reasons for Success in Israel 576
Finishing the Soil Conservation Assignment 577
A Fami ly Wedding 578
Taking a Vacation 578
Speaking for Technion 578
Attending Conference on National Resources 579
Lowdermilk Offered Position With the U.N. 579
L~Taped questions and answers] 581
Pioneer Scientists in Agriculture 581
Aaron Aaronsohn 581
Activity During World War I
Aaronsohn 's Death
The Herbarium
Wild Wheat
Harding Grass
A. D. Gordon 586
Jews in Palestine Become Farmers
Sam Hamburg
Changing Concepts of Agriculture
Adolph Reifenberg
Chaim Weizmann
Analysis of Joint Palestine Survey Commission
Israel Exports Food and Flowers 591
Israel Accepts Dr. Lowdermi Ik's Offer to Serve
as a Consultant 592
Nathan Gil Studies Conservation in the
United States
XXXV i
U.S. Soil Conservation Service Training
Schools 593
Meeting Again in Israel 594
Developing the Soil Conservation Service in Israel 595
Relationships With a Counterpart 595
Lowdermilk's Method of Work as a Consultant 596
Problems in Achieving Success 597
Erosion Not Understood 597
Farming on the Terraces 598
Obtaining Rainfall Data 599
Lectures 600
Dr. Lowdermi Ik Evaluates His Work in Israel 601
The Druses Advance Grape Production 602
Mr. and Mrs. Ben-Gurion 603
Trees in the Negev 604
Dr. Lowdermi Ik's Theories on Small Industries in
Agricultural Settlements 604
Ruhama 605
Hanita 606
Israel: An Example to Emerging Nations 607
Part 2 Developing the School of Agricultural Engineering,
1955-1957
[^Written questions and answers] 608
Assignment: Organize School of Agricultural
Engineering 608
Organizing the School 609
Curriculum 610
Israel Challenges the Agricultural Engineer 611
Planning the New Buildings 612
Raindrop Studies 613
The Old and New Technion Campus 614
Relations With Students and Faculty 615
Open House Atop Mount Carmel 616
The Sinai Campaign 617
Peace and Quiet on Lake Huleh 617
Notified of War 618
Evidence of War 619
Reactions to U.S. Position 620
Prisoners of War 621
Background of the War 622
Leaving Israel: Retiring 623
f_Taped questions and answers!) 624
Developing Program and Course of Study for the
New School 624
The Faculty 625
Des i gn i ng the Bu i I d i ngs 626
Value of the School to the Developing Countries 627
Dr. Nathan Buras 627
xxxv i i
Part 3 Three Return Visits to Israel, 1959, I960, 1964
[Written questions and answers] 629
International Farmer's Conference, 1959 629
Special Activities for Dr. Lowdermilk 632
School of Agricultural Engineering Named
After Dr. Lowdermilk 633
The Role of Science and Technology in the Development
of Emerging Nations, I960 633
Solutions to Population and Economic Problems 634
Variations in Per Capita Income 635
Seeing How Israel Restores the Land 636
Special Guests of the State of Israel, 1964 637
Dr. Lowdermilk Sees His Biography on the Land 638
"Father of the Water Plan" ' 638
Breaking Ground for the Lowdermilk School of
Agricultural Engineering 639
Part 4 An Evaluation of the Jewish- Israel I Farmer
[Written questions and answers] 641
Motivation 641
Cooperation 642
A Mind to Work 643
Education 644
Success 645
The Future 646
XVI ASSIGNMENT IN YUGOSLAVIA, 1957
[Written questions and answers] 647
Dr. Lowdermilk's Skills Needed in Yugoslavia 647
Hotel Room is "Tapped" 648
First Impressions of the People 649
Hand Labor in the Fields 650
Headquarters at Split 650
Serious Farm Problems 651
Planning the Little T.V.A. 652
Pasture Management 653
Electricity " 653
Asking the Farmer 654
Irrigation 654
Lack of Religious Liberty 655
Yugoslav-American Relations 656
Dr. Lowdermilk Leaves Amid Praises 657
XVII TECHNICAL AID, HUNGER, AND CONSERVATION
[Written questions and answers] 658
xxxv i i i
A Critique of Technical Aid Programs 658
American Aid 659
Food and Famine 660
Instability in the World 661
Philosophy on Conservation 662
Man Ruins His Land 662
Land Use to Feed Bi 1 1 ions 663
There is no Substitute for Food 664
Conclusions About Conservation 666
XVIII INTO THE PRESENT, 1957-1968
CWritten questions and answers] 668
Moving to Morongo Valley 668
Locating Water 669
Financing the Water 670
Leaving Morongo 671
Rejection of Feather River Water 671
Development of the Property Owner's Association 672
Writing the Chamber of Commerce By-laws 673
Other Activities in Morongo 674
Life in Berkeley 674
Consultant in the Redwoods 675
Oral History 676
The Lowdermilk Family 676
fTaped questions and answers] 677
Consultant to the Save-the-Redwoods League 677
Bui I Creek 678
Preventing Flood Damage 681
Other Recommendations 682
Saving Ancient Trees 683
APPEND I X 685
Publications of Walter Clay Lowdermilk 686
Citations and Awards 695
INDEX
696
XXXI X
CHILDHOOD AND EDUCATION, I 888-19 1 5
[Written questions and ani,wprs1
Chall: Will you tell me about yourself and your family?
WCL: I was born in Liberty, North Carolina, July I, 1888. We do
not know when our foreparents came to America, but legend has
it that three brothers came o\er from Holland, settled in New
York and were later driven out by the British. At that time,
my forebears migrated southward along the Atlantic Piedmont.
We know that one of them settled in Pennsylvania where numer
ous Lowdermilks live today. Another family settled in North
Carolina and were my immediate forefathers. Another group
went west and we find some of them in Arizona.
Chall: What did these pioneers in your family do?
WCL: The Lowdermilks were farmers, lumbermen and engineers. They
were Protestant in religion arid conservative in politics,
probably Republicans. They always managed to have a farm,
regardless of other undertakings.
Chall: Would you tell me something o1 your parents?
WCL: My mother and father were ver> opposite in temperament. My
mother was of English descent, from Lawrences and Covingtons.
They were English scholars anc preachers. My mother was the
daughter of a minister and a school teacher. She gave us a
sound religious training. We children all went to Sunday
School and church. My mother tried to instill in us the
desire for an education. I wts the oldest and the only one
to go on to college, but all my sisters had Normal School
training. My one brother was very capable and became a bank
cashier. It was not easy for girls to get an education in
those days when finances were limited.
My father was a Lowdermill< and a Van Cannon from early
Hoi land stock. He was a mechanical genius and developed
machinery for sawmills. He also was a great hunter and early
taught me how to hunt and handle a gun safely and to be a
good shot. He loved the greal out-of-doors and was not so
interested in formal education but was a self-taught man of
much abi I ity.
Largely due to our mother, we developed splendid family
loyalty. But my mother often despaired of the individualistic
traits in each of her childrer. We were all strong-willed,
which many would call stubborn. She used to say, "Just look
'VOL: at -the set of their chins and you know whv each child is so
determined and difficult."
My father was a loyal Democrat — good or bad, right or
wrong — while I was always for whomsoever I thought to be the
best man. I remember many teirific discussions over politics,
even until long after I was rm rried. When we visited my par
ents at the time of the elections for Herbert Hoover and A I
Smith, we almost had a family quarrel.
Education and Work
Chall: Dr. Lowdermilk, will you describe your early school days?
WCL: My schooling began in a little red school house with one room
and one teacher for all classes and grades. I had little
trouble le'arning the prescribed studies and quickly did my
lessons and then had nothing ~lo do. I evidently was an annoy
ance to my teachers for I would draw comic strips and pass
them around to the other students. This distracted teachers
as well as the children. As c result, my teachers, to keep me
occupied, appointed me to go end listen and help some other
class with their reading or spelling. Sometimes the teacher
had me make drawings on the blackboard, to be copied by the
class. Sketching was natural for me.
Chall: Where did you go when you graduated from the little red school
house?
WCL: When ready for high school, I liked the idea of the preparatory
school of Park College, in Parkville, Missouri. We had a
neighbor whose daughter was tha fiancee of a senior at Park
College. He arranged for me to go to Park and be his room
mate during his senior year. In those days I was a physical
culture enthusiast and an admirer of Bernard McFadden. I
placed great emphasis on discipline and self-control.
Chall: What was there about Park Collage that especially appealed
to you?
WCL: It was necessary for me to worK my way through school. I
liked the arrangements for self-help at Park. Students were
divided into "families," according to the number of hours a
day they worked for their keep and tuition. I belonged to a
"family" called Number Four, wiere students worked four hours
a day.
V-'~L: I was mechanically incline. While in this preparatory
school for Park College, I wa . given the job of running the
electric plant on evenings fn>m about six to midnight. During
my spare time at the plant, I was able to study. Among other
things, I memorized ten chapters of Proverbs and won a prize
of a ten dollar gold piece, for highest grade in Old Testament
Bible. This prize was most welcome to me then.
There was something about the close-knit association and
friendships of Park people that has persisted on through
life. I have met Park friend:, all over the world.
Park College was founded ty the McAfees as a Presbyterian
college with a strong mission.iry spirit. Many students after
graduation went as missionaries to other countries. Since
then Park has become interdenominational , but continues
former pol icies.
During a summer vacation vhen I was sixteen years old, I
worked in an ice plant on the night shift as an oiler. One
night the fireman and I discovered that the big boiler was
forming a dangerous blister. Instantly I ordered the fire
man to draw the fire. I rushed to "turn on the water pump
into the boiler so as to brine; down the steam pressure in the
boiler, and I held down the g< vernor of the big Corliss engine
to race it in order to lessen steam pressure. Apparently this
quick action saved the plant 1 rom a disastrous explosion. For
this, the owners offered to send me to college with all ex
penses paid to study refrigeration engineering. The only thing
they asked was that I would return and work for them (Rumley-
Dawley Co.) at a good salary for five years. But I was not
yet ready to be thus circumscribed, for I did not yet know
what I wanted to do for my iHe work.
Chall: When did you first think aboul trying for a Rhodes Scholarship?
WCL: Even before going to Park College, I had a dream of winning
a Rhodes Scholarship, which I had heard about through a friend.
I wanted to make all efforts in that direction. In those days
applicants had to pass "resporsions" (entrance examinations
to Oxford). The examination required among other things, pro
ficiency in Latin and in Greeh . The other subjects of mathe
matics and biology were easy lor me so I gave special emphasis
to Greek and Latin to be strong in these subjects.
Then the rule was that every three years, only two student
candidates from each state were awarded a Rhodes Scholarship.
I applied as a candidate from the state of Arizona where my
parents were living.
Student Activity, University cf Arizona
Chall: Where did you go to college?
WCL: After Park, 1 transferred to 1he University of Arizona at
Tucson, for my last three years at college. I had to work my
way entirely. I was unusually fortunate however, for I found
more tutoring to do than I coi'ld manage. The fee was one dol
lar an hour, equivalent to several dollars now. I remember we
could get a good steak dinner for twenty-five cenls, and every
thing else was in proportion. During the summers I organized
a little academy for tutoring, where I taught both in classes
and individually. In those days I played a good <jame of tennis
with excellent players on the University courts.
It was while in college at Tucson that I was elected
president of the student body. There were about two thousand
students at that time. Every one remembered my surprise and
embarrassment when asked to make a speech after my election.
I stood on the platform and started out, "As I look over your
faces ..." Then I could net think of what more to say, so
I repeated it and still could not go on. Suddenly it struck
me to say, "As I look over your faces, I see your hair." The
applause and laughter were tremendous, but it convinced me
that it was important to learn to speak in public.
Chall: Did you have any other activities while in the University?
WCL: Well, I started the first newsoaper ever to be published at
the University of Arizona. I named it, "The Arizona Life."
Later it was renamed, "The Arizona Wild Cat." I remember an
editorial I wrote on the sinking of the Titanic In I912 which
was widely acclaimed.
Chall: What was your major subject at the University?
WCL: I specialized in chemistry.
Life at Oxford as_ a_ Rhodes Scholar, 19I2-I9I5
Chall: Did you continue in chemistry at Oxford?
WCL: No, because when I was awarded the Rhodes Scholarship, I learned
that with certain subjects, studies on the continent were
WCL: Included for vacation periods. 1 decldoc1 to specialize 'n
forestry in the School of Run I Economy in Oxford, so that dur
ing the long summers I could >//ork under thu Forstmeisters in
Germany, where forestry was practiced with great refinements.
I also decided to prepare to t-ake a degree in geology as well,
for my credits would make thi , possible.
Chall: You were invited to enter Waddam College in Oxford. What
was it I i ke?
WCL: It is one of the most beautiful but not the largest of the
college buildings of Oxford. Its picturesque cut stone build
ings were three hundred years old and covered with ivy. These
buildings had been designed bv Sir Christopher Wren, the
famous architect of that time The main hall had a hammer
beamed ceiling and many love I1 old paintings on the walls.
In the grand dining room we ale in state each evening, wear
ing our scholars' gowns and u; ing the battered but solid
silverware and pure silver dr;nking mugs that had been used
for hundreds of years.
But I could not rave over the food. The British never
seasoned their vegetables and cooked potatoes and cabbage
without salt. I never wanted to see Brussels sprouts again
after leaving Oxford.
Chall: Were the rules very strict in Oxford? We think of such an old
school as being very conservative.
WCL: Yes, there were many regulaticns. One had to be in by mid
night or crawl over the back vail and sneak in through a win
dow. Just once I found the gteat front gate locked. I roused
the gateman who let me in, bu1 reported me to the Warden who
called me up on the carpet. Next day I was given a stern
warning never to let it happer again, and I did not!
Regardless of all the dignity of Oxford, boys will be
pranksters wherever they are. I remember one Guy Fox Day,
which is similar to our April Fool's Day. I went out to see
why the crowd had gathered arcund the tall Martyr's Monument
Spire, a hundred or more feet in height, and were all looking
upward. There on the pinnacle, inverted and hanging at a
jaunty angle, was the humble utility vessel always found in
a cabinet beside the bed before the days of plumbing. The
University sought volunteers 1o make the dangerous climb, but
no one volunteered, and the expert climber of the niglrt before
did not come forth to reveal his identity. Finally, the
University authorities had to shoot the poor thing to pieces
to get it down. Otherwise, it might have remained indefinitely.
Chall: Dr. Lowdermilk, will you tell Tie something about the routine
^iial I : in your life in Oxford.
WCL: Each morning at six, the scou-* pulled out c flat bathtub from
under my bed with a great cl alter which awakened me. Then he
poured in about an inch of waler over the bottom <jnd put in a
sponge which I was to use for a cold bath and rubdown. He
took my order for breakfast, end by the time I was dressed, my
breakfast was served In my room in front of the fireplace.
Every student had two roorrs, a "bedder" and a "sitter."
There was only local heat in c small coal -burn ing fireplace.
There was no running hot or ccld water; this was carried to
each room by the scout or servant in a big pitcher.
For breakfast or lunch we could invite to our rooms other
students from our college, or the other colleges, to eat with
us. Many were the lively discussions: on politics in England,
America and on the continent, on studies and discoveries, on
athletics, and one's progress in studies. Most Oxford men
went to church on Sunday, largely as a duty, but there were
few discussions on religion. Whenever a student wanted no
company and wished to be alone, he "sported his oak," or shut
his heavy oak door and locked it from the inside.
Chall: What about athletics in Oxford:'
WCL: I found athletics in Oxford ar d Arizona very different. In
Tucson, we played tennis, fool ball, basketball, or took track,
to compete with others to win. But in Oxford, athletics were
for exercise primarily. A sti dent would watch others in
these various games and find e. group which displayed more of
his own skill or lack of it, end he would join that group and
play just for exercise. Durirg vacation I played tennis, but
during the winter I rowed in 1 he crew for Wadham College, and
because ours was the winning crew one year, we each were allowed
to keep our oars.
Chall: Oxford at that time was str icily a man's institution. Did you
have any contact with girls?
WCL: Oh, we had plenty of opportunities to entertain girls, but
it was strictly on the chaperc ne basis. She was omnipresent.
One of the happy memories was of inviting girls to visit us
and go "punting" on the tree-shaded Cherwell River, which was
just over our back wall. Sometimes we punted quite a distance
to a garden restaurant along 1he banks of 1he Cherwell where
we went ashore to eat strawberries and thick cream.
At commencements, the colleges would have an all-night
dance and small groups of friends had their special booth where
the chaperone sat. After each dance we relumed to the
VCL: chaperone's booth to chat and to change dancing partners.
Then the final gala part was ,i breakfast together. But It was
all very dignified and formal.
I made some close friends among the British students and
was invited to their homes; I still correspond with some. It
was customary in Oxford each r emester for every undergraduate
student to make a formal tea-lime call on his Don, or Tutor.
This gave a social contact between professors and students.
Chall: Was the educational system at Oxford much different from what
it was in the United States?
WCL: Decidedly so. Throughout the three-year course o< study, there
are no tests or examinations, except where lectures and labora
tory experiments are given. The Tutor directs hi', students in
assimilating a vast amount of knowledge about which one must
have a usable knowledge in hir field of study.
Then at the close of the three years, 1here i c_. a week-long
examination on any questions 1 hat come under one's studies.
Cramming for exams is disastrous, as a fellow Rhodes Scholar
learned, for he cracked up mentally before the week was, over.
It was the habit of most of us to take off several days for
rest, relaxation, exercise anc fun. Then *e were ready for
the long grind of examinations . The questions asked were to
draw out one's knowledge of fects and subjects. Ihe student
was graded, not on the number of questions he answered, but
on his mastery of the subjects on which he wrote.
Chall: This sounds as if Oxford was c.uite a hard grind. Were the
lecture and study sessions year-round?
WCL: Thank goodness, no. In Oxforc the class work lasted only six
months and the remainder was spent in three long vacations.
This gave us time for the more serious reading designated by
our Tutor, as well as time for recreation. I spent four sum
mers or vacations on the continent. In Germany I studied
forestry under the German Forsfmeisters who were expert in
the care and maintenance of fc rests. I lived in German homes
so as to have a mastery of the German language.
Work W i t h Be I g i urn Re I i e f Commi 55 ion, I9I4
Chall: Where were you when World War I broke out, in Oxford or
Germany?
8
WCL: At that time, two British students and I were making a tour to
see various kinds of forest management in Germany. We were
caught at Freudenstadt. The fritish students were immediately
called back to England, while I stayed in Germany for another
month. How times have changec1. At that time, I had no pass
port but I was able to get a "temporary one from the American
Consul at Stuttgart and returned to Oxford. Almost immedi
ately the United States Ambassador, Brandt Whitlock, made a
call for Rhodes Scholars who spoke German and French to volun
teer to work with Herbert Hoover on his program to feed the
starving Belgians.
Cha I I : So this was how you happened 1o work with Herbert Hoover on
the Commission for Relief in Eelgium. Was this interesting?
WCL: Yes indeed, it was a wonderful opportunity to do something
useful and to have this persoral contact with a future Presi
dent of the United States. DC you know the background for
thi s re I ief work?
Chal I : No, not ful ly.
WCL: Well, the Germans were conquerors. They wanted the Belgians
to become laborers, for there was much to be done. The
courageous Belgians steadfastly refused. This angered the
Germans who said to the Belgians, "If you won't work, you don't
eat," so food supplies were cut off and the Belgians were
starving! Hoover was sent over to see what could be done. He
pointed out to the German military command that this planned
starvation of the Belgian people would give Germany a black
eye among nations of the worlc. He urged Germany to allow us
to feed the Belgians.
Finally an agreement was nade whereby Germany would not
torpedo the American food ships. England demanded the assur
ance that no food thus given ty America would reach German
stomachs, and Germany Insistec that the distribution would-be
such as to prevent spying among those overseeing distribution.
Chal I: Then you were one of those called in to help distribute food
stuffs to the Belgian people?
WCL: Yes. When Ambassador Whitlock appealed for Rhoder, Scholars
who could speak both French and German fluently, -there were
fifteen of us who fulfilled tha qualifications anc we were
sent over at once.
Most of the foodstuffs were unloaded at Rotterdam, Holland.
The Germans had taken over all the Belgian railroads and high
ways, but had not wanted to bother with the big, • low-moving
canal barges. The Commission for Relief in Belgium took over
the canal systems.
9
I was one of those assigned tc Belgium at the doc Is to oversee
the unloading and di stribution of vast amounts of foodstuffs.
It was touching to see the jo*' among Belgian housewives who
could have bread made of whitr flour, after the coarse black
bread they had been eating, "hey said, "Today we have cake,"
meaning white bread was such c. treat.
Chal 1 : Did the Belgian people seem grateful for this American help?
WCL: My, yes! It was very touchinc to see the joy of housewives at
distribution points. We did have one rather unusual experience
however. Generous Iowa farmers wanted to s.hare with the heroic
Belgians their special corn crop. They chartered a bio cargo
boat and filled it full to overflowing with shellud corn — it
seemed to me there were mountains of golden yellow corn. But
the Belgians had never eaten corn. They only used it for
animal food. It seemed repukive to them; they would not eat
it. Hoover brought over groups of domestic science teachers
to demonstrate how to prepare good corn bread for table use.
Finally, Hoover had the corn ground to a very fine flour and
mixed it with wheat flour, and bread was made from this. The
people did not know they were at last eating the corn. Many
shiploads of corn were prepared in this way and consumed. All
were happy with the outcome.
Chal I: Hoover was highly respected for his relief work. Did you
accord him this respect too?
WCL: Yes, Hoover was a marvelous administrator and organizer. He
demanded that all of us keep accurate records of all transac
tions. We all called him "the Chief," and whatever our Chief
wanted done was carried out all down along the line, from the
highest to the most lowly job. There was marvelous esprit de
corps in our staff. It is renarkable that those who worked
with Hoover during the aid to the starving people of Europe
have met annually in reunions. Whenever possible, we attended
the big banquet in New York where "the Chief" presided.
All of our names are engraved in stone in the great Hoover
Memorial Tower at Stanford University. When we were married,
the Commission gave us a lovely sterling silver bowl from
Tiffany's in New York.
I was invited by Herbert r-oover to continue with him in
definitely and I considered it, but I decided to return to
Oxford and get my degree in my chosen field of work and then
see what opened up.
I would like to give a few figures as to what this American
Relief Association (A.R.A.), under Hoover's personal lirection,
did to help the peoples of Europe between I"I4 anc 1924. During
The Commission for Relief in Belgium
HONORARY CHAIRMEN
THEIR EXCELLENCIES
THE SPANISH MINISTER IN BRUSSELS THE SPANISH AMBASSADOR IN LONDON
THE AMERICAN MINISTER IN BRUSSELS THE AMERICAN AMBASSADOR IN LONDON
THE AMERICAN MINISTER AT THE HAGUE THE AMERICAN AMBASSADOR IN BCRLIN
THE NETHERLANDS MINISTER TO BELGIUM THE AMERICAN AMBASSADOR IN PARIS
COMMITTEE NAMED BY 1 HF f'Nf SIC'ENT OF THE
rATC* TO CO-OPERATE WITH THE COMMISSION
ALEXANDER J. HEMHHILL
Chairman
S. READING BERTRON
C. A. COFFIN
R. FULTON CUTTING
ELTERT H. GARY
W. L. HONNOLD
J. F. LUCEY
HENRY L. STIMSON
OSCAR S. STRAUS
FRANK TRUMBULL
FRANK A. VANDERLIP
JOHN BEAVER WHITE
HERBERT C. HOOVER
Chairman of iht Commlitlon
W. L. HONNOLD
Director in America
ALEXANDER J. HEMPHILL
Treamrtr
120 Broadway, New York
Telephone
RECTOR 8125
EDGAR RICKARO
Haitian! Director
EDWARD J. WILLIAM*
.'••l-lanl Trraiu-ir
E. G. BROKNNIMAN
/'««
H C. DAVIS
Gio BARH BAKIR
Seeclol AfftaU
G. W. OlDOiNOfl
SfcrO*rt Apftal Commit*,
Dl LOITT1. (I INDEX. GRIFFITH. A CO.
Amtim
March Tenth
19 17
Dear I3r. Lowdermilki-
Aa the membership of the Commission has grown it has be
come increasingly difficult to keep in touch with the individual
men who have sacrificed so much for our v;ork. \7ith a view to com
memorating your connection with the C.R.B. and in order that you
may have a definite though small recognition of your services, we
have cast a service medal in Brussels, and I have arranged with
this office to send yours under sep. orate cover. In presenting
this to you, I take the opportunity of expressing my heartfelt
gratitude for your assistance.
I know that you value, as I do, the opportunity that fa&s
been given to all of us to serve a v/orthy people and, furthermore,
we can always be proud th£t we have furthered *lie interests of
our own country abroad by increasing the respect for our flag. I
look upon the C.R.B. as the most exclusive organization in the
v;orldf and its success and the prominent place it rill have in
history is due in a large measure to your loyalty end the whole
hearted support accorded me throughout.
Yours faithfully,
Chair-man.
ilr. Loiter 0. Lovdermilk,
uilcox,
arizona.
[0
WCL: this period, Hoover spent five and one-quarter billion dollars
and delivered to Europe more than thirty-three million tons of
commodities, mostly American foodstuffs. Great amounts of
clothing and medical supplies were distributed. Exceedingly
accurate records were kept. If it had not been for Hoover
and his leadership in feeding the starving, it is estimated
that ten million people in occupied regions of Belgium and
northern France might have perished. During the Armistice
period, peoples of central and eastern Europe would have died
by the millions in the greatest famine the world had seen in
the past 350 years. There are millions alive and able-bodied
today who owe their lives entirely to this chi Id- feed ing work
from 1919 to 1923, and international famine relief.
Also, millions of Russians owe their lives to the American
Relief Administration in the terrible famine of 1921-1922. It
is to their shame that they gave no credit to the United States
and made snide remarks against Hoover. They did not want their
people to know of this outside help, for they were in the
throes of impressing the people with the glories of the Russian
revolution. But their attitude does not in any manner minimize
the splendid relief work of Herbert Hoover and the great num
bers of devoted people who worked with him.
Graduating From Oxford
Chall: So you returned to Oxford to get your degrees?
WCL: Yes, I completed the requirements for two degrees: one In
forestry and one in geology, covering the three years of
studies.
The subject of the thesis in forestry was "A Working Plan
for the Forest of Salmunster, Germany." This I wrote in German,
No thesis was required for the degree in geology. But the
University of Oxford conferred on me a "First I" in Geology
Honors Examinations.
Chall: What do you mean by a "First I"?
WCL: Well, this was conferred in a "striking way." The Vice-
Chance I I or of the University hit me over the head with the
catalogue of the University of Oxford and said something in
Latin which I forget. This ceremony took place before an
assembly of the University of Oxford.
As recognition of this First, I was permitted to make a
choice of books. Accordingly I chose a magnificent four-volume
set of an Encyclopedia of_ Forest Science and Practice. Since
II
.CL: this was, at that time, the highest authority, I considered it
a fitting reward for my studies in the School of Forestry.
I wrote my thesis in German for I had applied myself dili
gently in learning German. Knowledge of this language opened
up a wide field of theory and practice in the international
science of forestry.
Chal I : Will you summarize what the Rhodes Scholarship meant to you?
WCL: After more than half a century, it is hard for me to encompass
what this all meant to me. I feel that the Rhodes Scholarship
is the greatest academic prize in modern times. It marked
my transition from a local country boy in a western atmosphere
to a student of the international scene in a society whose
outlook, history and interest were far wider than those in
which I had been brought up. I developed a point of view that
is based upon the recognition that the modern world is not
confined to one people, one language, or to one political
faith, but touches on al I . I found myself in an academic
system where the methods of instruction and study were widely
different from those in which I had been trained. To me,
this meant a widening of my own vision and acceptance of a
challenge to determine by comparison what are the good and
what are the bad points in our society.
It meant much to me, through the Rhodes Scholarship, to
become a member of a small, but select and congenial, loosely-
knit group of able men of superior quality. Friendships have
been stimulating and enduring. In Oxford I met my own select
countrymen from every state in the Union, which improved my
insight into the essential unity in diversity of the United
States.
Oxford teaches freedom — social, political and intellectual,
Every member of the University is expected to be himself, and
to develop along the path he has chosen for himself. We res
pect each other and are respected by our fellows, regardless
of one's chosen field. Respect for learning permeates the
whole atmosphere.
With an Oxford training, one feels he has a foundation
fashioned at one of the world's greatest centers of learning.
This gives one the right, and imposes on him the duty, to make
an open-minded examination of his own mind and the discovery
of what it can do.
Chal I: Did it mean much to you that you received a "First" in
schol arshi p?
12
WCL: Well, this is a distinction highly esteemed by the student
body.
But I hope this summary of what Oxford has meant to me
does not exemplify the trenchant words of Max Beerbohm, who
said, "When I was growing up, I was an amiable, studious and
well-mannered youth. It was only Oxford that made me
insufferable."
CHILDHOOD AND EDUCATION, 1888-1915
L~Taped questions and answers^]
Parents and the Westward Migration
Chall: You have provided quite a bit of interesting Information In
your written questions and answers, but I do have a few more
questions. Where did your parents meet?
WCL: In the Piedmont, in Randolph County, North Carolina. My
mother's father was a minister of the Christian Church.
Chall: Were they fundamentalist in their beliefs about religion?
Did they follow the Bible as closely as did the Bible Belt
settlers?
WCL: They were quite a liberal type, more liberal than the ultra-
fundamentalists. I was named after Uncle Walter Lawrence, one
of my mother's brothers.
Chall: And where did the Clay come from, by the way?
WCL: That came from my father's side. In those days Henry Clay
had made quite a name for himself, and my father was named
Henry Clay Lowdermilk. He had his own timber business, and
was a genial pioneering type of person. My father and mother
migrated from North Carolina very early. I grew up in the
West.
Chall: Where?
WCL: In Oklahoma and Arizona. I don't remember our life in the
Carolina's, because I was just a mere child at that time.
I can't recall the year. But the timber business apparently
went on the rocks. That may have been the stimulus on my
father to "go West." There were some members of an earlier
branch of the family who had preceded us in Arkansas. They
were miners and business people.
Chall: Were these your father's relalives who were miners?
WCL: Yes. I remember we stopped over with them for a couple of
years. My father got a farm and later sold It, and moved
further to the West and finally homesteaded in Arizona.
We didn't jump from the East to the West, but it was more,
let's say, a migration from place to place to California, very
13
14
WCL: much as the family with the "long Rifle."
Chal I : Can you trace it?
WCL: Let's see. Our first stop was in Arkansas. My father took
up one of those hillbilly farms. That's where I learned to
plant corn. And I'll never forget how beautifully my mother
would roast sweet potatoes in an oven. I don't think they
grow them as rich as then. When we'd roast them, a sweet
syrup would ooze out of those sweet potatoes.
Chal I: What did your father grow on this hillbilly farm?
WCL: Corn, potatoes, and fruit trees in orchards. Of course there
was a pasture and my father ran hogs in the woods.
Chall: Was this a subsistence kind of farm?
WCL: More or less. His idea was that we were going farther west;
this was just a stopover. He took part also, when I was Just
a small child, in that famous race for land in Oklahoma.
Chall: How old were you when you moved to Sulphur Springs Valley in
Ari zona?
WCL: I was about fifteen years old.
Chall: That's where your father homes, teaded , In Arizona?
WCL: Yes, with a 160-acre homestead in Wilcox, Sulphur Springs
Valley.
Chall: What did you raise in Sulphur Springs Valley?
WCL: Cattle and vegetables. My falher was also a stationary engi
neer, and was in demand. As things were developing, he had
plenty of work. There was a premium on men with mechanical
know-how.
Chall: How had he become a stationary engineer? Is this something
that he had learned?
WCL: Yes, from childhood. He was very inventive. He was quite a
mechanical genius in many ways., and he was always working on
some better way of doing thincis mechanically — quite original.
And he was a crack shot.
•
Chall: Oh?
WCL: I used to go out hunting with him. He taught me how to
handle a gun, even though the gun was longer than I was.
15
WCL: He wouldn't let me go out with other boys, but only with him
or alone. He taught me how to carry a gun, how to be careful
with it. And he was a very good instructor In marksmanship.
So I too became quite a marksman. Much later I was Chairman
of the Montana State Rifle Association, when I was a Forest
Service Research officer.
Chall: When you were living in Sulphur Springs Valley, farming the
land and hunting, I assume it was wild open country then?
WCL: Yes, open after Geronimo, the Apache, had been killed.
Chall: Can you tell me a little more about your mother?
WCL: My mother was a marvelous person, a very saintly person.
She had been a schoolteacher, and a good one.
Chall: Did she teach the children at all?
WCL: In those days, and even when we were on the farm out in
Arizona, she would hold us children to a program each Friday
evening. Each one would prepare something, either a poem to
memorize, or some story to tell — things of that sort that were
distinctly with educational content, as spelling bees.
Chall: She was the daughter of a minister — did she give you your
rel igious training?
WCL: Yes, I would say so. Father was not ... he was a free and
easy sort of person, not emotional at all but a practical per
son. He had a very wide circle of friends, and he was always
leading parties to go hunting, because in "those days people
depended a great deal upon game for a meat supply.
Chall: So your mother took care of the spiritual side of the children.
Did she read the Bible to you?
WCL: Oh yes, and taught us to memorize special passages.
Chall: Where did you come by your feeling for nature?
WCL: My father appreciated nature for its beauty as well as for
its practical use. When hunting, he would climb a hill to
get the view, or explore the streams. He was always wanting
more land, but it had to have water on it and forests. I ap
preciate my father more and more. Later in my travels as a
forester, soil conservationist and hydrologist, I found oppor
tunity to appreciate natural phenomena as my father did.
Chall: And what attribute in your character did you think your mother
i nst i I led i n you?
16
WCL: My mother was quite an intelligent person and a student, criti
cally searching for reasons.
Chall: Where do you think you might have got the feeling for hard
work and disciplined effort?
WCL: We had the spirit to make the best of opportunities available
to us; and we were willing to work hard for it — and we had a
lot of fun in doing it. The s,pirit of accepting a challenge
and doing what was necessary prevailed.
Brothers and Sisters
Chall: How many brothers and sisters did you have?
WCL: One brother and three sisters--f ive of us. I was the oldest.
My brother went into the banking business but died of a heart
attack at the age of fifty-four, before his time. My sisters
were all married and are still living. They are all beautiful,
highly respected and useful members of their communities, and
are married to prominent men.
Chall: Where do they live?
WCL: Ruth Beaton lives in Portland, Oregon; Flora Rivers in Santa
Maria, California; and Esther Gung'l in Tucson, Arizona.
Chall: Did they come by any of these traits that you have, scholar
ship, scientific interest, that sort of thing?
WCL: Yes, very much so. My oldest sister, Flora, is one of my
"heroines.1' She married a young man who was in the auto busi
ness in the early days. Then he had an auto accident which
didn't kill him, but injured him so that he lived about six
months before he finally died from his injuries. This used up
all the resources of the family, so my sister, with four little
children, took over the responsibility to educate her four young
sters and trained herself as a secre-tary. Some of her friends
suggested that she run for election as County Clerk. She was
elected time after time until years later she retired. Now
she's worth about $250,000. She holds quite a lot of stock in
Standard Cil as well as real estate. For she was thrifty, and
so she trained her children.
As I have said, all my sisters are quit*; exceptional women,
17
WCL: but I have singled out Flora as a heroine of mine because she
succeeded against very great odds. They had a hard struggle,
but every one of her children has done well. There's one of
them, Dorothy, who lives near the Claremont Hotel In one of the
lovely residences there. Her husband is a successful lawyer
in San Francisco. My sister'-? oldest boy is president of the
Bank of America in Atwater, California. And her other daughter,
who unfortunately died early in 1968, lived In San Marino at
Pasadena. Her husband is a wealthy man. Every one of her
children has done well.
Chat I : Well, then she must have acquired some of the same traits of
character that your wife said you acquired from your family.
Self-discipline seems to have been one of them and a desire
to train yourself carefully. From whom did the theory of
self-discipline come?
WCL: I think it was from my mother.
Education
Chall: What do you remember of spec i;: I interest about some subjects
you learned in school?
WCL: I remember that one of my tea< hers taught me the diagraming of
sentences. To me, this is one of the clearest and best ways
of teaching the relationships of phrases and words in the struc
ture of sentences.
Chall: That's because you have a scientific bent. How early do you
think you were taught to diagram?
WCL: Quite early, and I always liked to diagram sentences. If you
could diagram your thoughts, then you could think and present
ideas more clearly.
Chall: Did you go directly from Park Academy to college?
WCL: I had two years at Park Acaderry to graduate. Then I took a
year off to teach school. I taught school in Anadarko, Okla
homa. And then I went back tc Park as a freshman in college.
After I finished the freshman year, I took the examination
for the Rhodes Scholarship, at the University In Lawrence,
Kansas.
18
Chall: I see.
WCL: I passed and was notified to appear before the Rhodes committee
in Arizona, because, as you recall, I had chosen to be a candi
date from the state of Arizona rather than from Missouri, where
I was in college, for I had this choice. I decided I had better
transfer to the University of Arizona, which I did.
Chall: Did this cause you difficulties?
WCL: Yes. My passing the examination made me a candidate from
Arizona, but to my surprise, there were already three others in
Arizona who were candidates. A friend in Oxford had telegraphed
through the committee in Arizona that three applicants had
passed. So they were congratulating themselves that alj^ had
passed. And then surprisingly when the official mail came, here
was this man Lowdermilk who had also passed and was a candidate,
whom nobody at the University of Arizona knew of eat all. So I
wasn't received with very much warmth. But after a time I won
the loyalty and support of the student body. In a year's time
the student body had elected me president. I mado my letter
in college athletics. Among other things, I had the record
for the hammer throw. In time my turn came to be designated
as Rhodes Scholar from Arizona. I made the long trip to Oxford
in September 1912. This was the beginning of a new world for
me.
Chall: You have written quite completely about life at Oxford, but I
want you to tell me something more about your work and study
in the German forests.
Trai ning i n the German Forests, 1912-1915
WCL: At Oxford, as you know, we were "up" only six months out of
the year. The other six months we were on vacation, supposedly,
But it was in the vacation that we were expected to do our
most serious reading or study, as indicated under the guidance
of a program laid out for us by our tutors.
I had elected to read in the School of Forestry. I spent
four summers on these "vacations" on the Continent. It was
when I did my practical work in the German forests, according
to the course of study as set up in Oxford, under Sir William
Schlich. In our thesis for the degree, we curried out studies
to gather information for a working plan for a definite area
of forest land in a German forest. We had to survey and to
19
WCL: map it, to make a survey of soils and vegetation and forest
stands. We had to establish the growth rates, timber volume
by stands, and those facts that were necessary to preparation
of a working plan that was supposed to be practical and to be
founded on sound scientific knowledge. After we had carried
out our studies for management of a definite forest tract and
had finished our thesis on this work, we were then sent to
visit forests of different kinds and under different types of
management, to give us a broader view of the subject of forest
management responsive to different sites and physiographic
conditions. This final study tour took us students to forest
regions in Germany and in parts of France.
This program was interrupted by the outbreak of World
War I. I was then in Germany along with two British students.
We were in the little town of Freudenstadt in the Black Forest
when the newsboys rushed out on the streets carrying newspapers
and calling out, "Extra! Extra!" in German. This newspaper
announced the declaration of war by Germany against France.
This was the beginning of the First World War. British stu
dents found it necessary to leave immediately for England.
But I didn't see why I should have to leave so quickly, because
the United States was not yet involved. I used the time to
good advantage by translating some German works on forest
si I vicultural systems of management which Engler had worked
out in the Schwartz Wald. And in afternoons, I would take my
exercise walking into the forests where Engler had worked out
his theories in practice.
Chall: Was Engler an old-time forester?
WCL: Oh yes. He was one of the top authorities in German forestry.
He had worked out a special system of si Ivicultural treatment
that I wanted to bring to the United States. To this end, I
translated his work, "Feme I Schlag Betrief," from the German.
Chall: You felt his contribution was unique, that we didn't havejt
in this country, or we weren't concerned with it at the time?
WCL: We were not concerned; or we had a lot of ideas, but they
never had been put to the test in the United States.
Chal I : I see.
WCL: Because it takes time in forestry for many of these measures
to come to fruition.
Chall: The Germans were leaders in forest management at that time?
WCL: Yes. German forstmeisters were trained in making very close
observations of natural conditions and in knowing how to
20
WCL: modify those conditions, as an objective of management for a
region.
Sir William Schlich, of course, was in charge of our school
ing, and arranged plans for the four of us — a Scotsman, an
Englishman, a South African and myself — who were mature students
and were out to learn all we could. We were workers too. Sir
William liked our progress, so he had us assigned to go to
Germany to work with forstme inters who had been outstandingly
successful in their forest management. Among the best German
forstmeisters was Herr Hebel of Salmunster Hessen Nassau. His
work was so interesting and important, and taught me so much,
that I want to go into it in <letai 1 .
Chal I : That's a fine idea.
Herr Forstmeister Hebel, Spec'alist in Growing Oak For Furniture
[Written by Dr. Lowdermilk for insertion here]
WCL: Herr Forstmeister Hebel, of the State Forer,t of Salmunster,
had become widely known for his ability and success in growing
oak timber especially suited for the manufacture of high-quality
furniture. The lumber for this purpose must have narrow, uni
form annual growth rings. As a wood technologist will tell us,
the annual growth ring of hardwood species, especially of oak,
is made up of two layers: one. is the narrower and softer
spring growth and the other ii. the summer growth, wider and
harder. So if spring growth makes up most of an annual growth
ring, then the lumber is softer, more easily worked and does
not readily crack on drying. But if the summer growth makes up
most of the annual growth, then the lumber is characterized by
alternating hard and soft layers of growth rings; the lumber
is harder to work. The sharp difference between soft spring
wood and hard summer wood makes lumber easy to split and it is
more difficult to make accurate joints.
The si Iviculturist like Forstmeister Hebel, as distinct
from the Agriculturist, sets up his objective of growing uni
formly narrow annual rings th&t give us less pronounced hard
summer wood. He must control the sunlight that falls on his
forest stand. He does this by getting a close and uniform
spacing of young trees. This uniform restocking is the first
essential. Oak seedlings will be planted to fill in gaps if
they occurred.
Thereafter the si I vicu I turist must carrv out a program of
systematic thinnings of young trees to maintain the uniformity
of the stand. He will encourage competition among the trees,
21
WCL: especially in the period of more rapid growth so that the
ratio between tree crowns and tree roots shall be uniform, to
keep the stems of the trees of the stand shaded by a closed
canopy of tree crowns. Sunlight on tree stems encourages dor
mant buds to grow into branches. But the si I viculturfst must
manage his stand so that the stems are kept in the shade, thus
discouraging the growth of dormant buds. Then the trees of
the stand compete with each other for the sunlight above. They
grow tall and straight. Here the si I viculturist controls this
competition by maintaining the trees of the stand at a given
density, so as to keep the annual rings as uniform as possible
by judicious thinning and by introducing an understory of a
species of trees that endures shade, such as beech trees.
This understory shades the lower part of tree stems and pre
vents the formation of branches from latent buds. Tree stems
are kept in dense shade to discourage development of branches.
This is important, for a branch that develops on the stem
means that as the tree grows in diameter, a knot is formed that
renders the lumber much less valuable than lumber without knots,
or clear lumber, as it is known in the lumber trade. In
Europe, such shade-producing understories are commonly pro
duced by natural seeding or planting of beech trees.
The spread and density of tree crowns become very impor
tant in encouraging stimulation, distribution and uniform spac
ing of young trees of the stand. Judicious thinning is neces
sary then, to remove diseased and malformed trees and to keep
proper lighting for growth and straightness of the tree stems.
To maintain the trends of several factors integrated in a
developing forest, the si I viculturist needs some indicator such
as an instrument photometer, and better ye1 , the close observa
tion of plant indicators.
In Germany, especially in Hessen Nassau, this need is sup
plied by huckleberries that form a soil cover. The huckle
berry growth gives rise to a forest soil mulch that protects
from soil erosion during heavy rains. Moreover, the terminal
ends of huckleberry branches are very sensitive to light. Herr
Forstmeister Rebel taught us 1o observe very closely the be
havior of terminal branches of this huckleberry ground^cover.
If the terminal leaves were dying back, this would indicate to
the si Iviculturist that light intensity getting through the
forest crown was diminishing. But, on the other hand, if
terminal leaves of huckleberry plants were growing, adding new
leaves, then the intensity of light through the crown canopy
was increasing.
These indications would show the aggregate trends of light
necessary for photosynthesis and would suggest to the
22
WCL: si Iviculturist whether to increase or decrease thinnings within
the stand.
So successful had Herr Hebe I been in growing narrow-ringed
and soft-textured and clear lumber, free 01 knots and of high
quality, that he had been awarded citationr. for his achievements,
The tendency has developer that clear lumber is giving way
to pulp and chip production from which compress boards are be
ing manufactured. This trend turns timber production into more
of a technology than a plant :cience.
Chall: I didn't know that these things had been worked out so scienti
fically as they had in Germany. You got good training.
WCL: Oh yes. We were taught to dhignose a whole situation, analyze
factors of the problems, and then either bring them together
to integrate them so that you would modify the measures, or
adjust them to other measures.
Chall: Yes, you always came out with some kind of a principle based
on a total evaluation of the situation.
Americans Learn Forest Management i n Germany
WCL: That's right. I did my thesis in German and Sir William
Schlich signed it. We were his favorite sludents, and we
didn't want to fail him because we admired him so much.
People in the United States were beginning to get inter
ested in scientific forestry, among them Gifford Pinchot, Henry
Solon Graves and Fernow. A group of prominent Americans went
over to see Sir William Schlich. Sir William became the prin
cipal contact between interesled Americans and German scientists
in the new forestry. It came to be popular for American scien
tists and educators to visit Germany and to see first-hand how
the science of forestry was developing. Many Americans got
their grasp of what forests really were about. And that stimu
lated a big movement among our pioneer foresters here in the
United States. Now I don't know if we need to go into our
attitude toward the forest resources of the country, except
to say that the general opinion was that they were inexhaustible.
Chall: That seems to have been the theory at that time.
23
WCL: And the wasteful use of the timber by cutting. Of course,
much of the farm land was covered with forests, and so the
tree was an enemy to the farmer who was pioneering in the
breaking of new land. So the attitude toward the forest was
hostile rather than friendly.
The British Foresters
One other thing I wanted -;o say is thai the Britishers,
in the training of young foresters for British Colonies,
selected qualified and sound ^oung men, good students. Their
esprit de corps was splendid. I enjoyed working with the
Britishers because most of the men who were my classmates
were being trained in forestr\ for some colonial post, in
central South Africa, India ot Cyprus.
At one time, Cyprus was denuded of trees, and the land had
been grazed to the roots. British forestry brought back and
developed one of the finest fc rests of the Middle East. This
was convincing proof that the destruction of the former forest
was not due to an adverse climatic change. British foresters,
who also had pasture men on their staff, did an outstanding
job in the restoration of the forest of Cyprus.
I learned to know many young British foresters who were
candidates for the British Colonial Services. One of my
greatest friends was for yean in India bu1 now is the pro
fessor of forestry at Oxford, H. G. Champion. He's a very fine
man and a very able forester.
Chall: And he was one of your fellow students?
WCL: Yes, we did our field work in Germany together.
There was Bill Watt, from South Africa. When I was on my
trip to China we were held up in Durban, South Africa, by a
wrecked engine on our ship. The American consul told me that
we wouldn't get a plane for three weeks. I knew -that my
Oxford classmate Bill Watt was there, and made known my pres
ence. He said he wanted to show me some of the country of
South Africa.
Chall: Oh, while you were waiting?
WCL: It's amazing how these Oxford contacts have been so very in
teresting. There was Bill Watt, an Irishman; there was the
Englishman, Champion; a Scotsman named Ian Clark, and he^was
a burly fellow. When he put on his kilt he was a magnificent
24
WCL: specimen. Then there was a follow by the name of Nicholson
who was a brilliant young fellow. Sir William threw us together.
I look back on my association with thof>e keen, able people
with a great deal of pleasure. Later on they became leading
authorities in the British Empire. So I was known over quite
an area: England, Ireland, Scotland, Africa, New Zealand and
India — they all know me.
Chall: You could always have a little reunion when you traveled
abroad.
Studv Methods in Oxford
Chall: Would you explain the exam inal ion system at Oxford a little
more f u I ly?
WCL: We were not graded on the numter of questions we answered.
We were graded on the thoroughness and grasp of our answers.
In the examination in which I got the highest grade, I
answered only two questions. In the United States, if we
have ten questions, you're supposed to answer the ten. But
there, the fewer questions you answer, the chances are, you'
get a higher mark, if you demor strate a thorough knowledge of
your subject.
Chall: But you had to be thorough.
WCL: Yes. In other words, you were supposed to know your facts.
It was what we could do with 1 hose facts that counted. And
I think that was one of the most important things that I
learned at Oxford— that became the basis of my studies:
thoroughness.
II THE FOREST SERVICE, 1915-1917
^Written questions and answers]
Chall: I presume that now after graduation, you returned to the
United States?
WCL: Yes.
Ranger in the Tonto National Forest
Chall: What was the first work you did in the Forest Service?
WCL: My first appointment was as assistant forest ranger at Payson,
Arizona, in the Tonto National Forest, at ninety dollars a
month, stringing telephone wires on trees to establish com
munications in the Tonto Forest. Some felt this was quite a
comedown from Oxford, to begin in such a lowly position. But
I enjoyed the frontier life, outdoor living, doing my own
cooking. My fine intelligent horse was my all-day companion.
Chall: What kind of a forest was the Tonto?
WCL: There was little timber here, for the Tonto Forest was used
mostly for grazing by big cattle ranchers and sheep herders
who had fought deadly range wars until the U.S. Forest Service
took over.
I used to say that if Suhuara cacti were trees, I had a
big forest to supervise. I also policed the sheep driveway
from the winter desert pasture, through the Tonto to summer
pastures in the mountains, to prevent sheepmen and cattlemen
from shooting each other.
In my horseback trips of inspection, I was delighted from
time to time to see one cow "baby-sitting" for several calves
while other mother cows sought grazing in the vicinity. Cows
would take turns "calf-sitting" for mother cows who had tucked
their calves close together under bushes for shade.
Chall: This was quite a pioneer experience for you. What was the
spirit of these pioneers?
25
26
WCL: Well, this was a region where it was the custom to leave your
kitchen door unlocked so that if any horseman passing by needed
food or a bed, he could go in and make himself at home. But
the unwritten law was that each guest would clean up the dishes
and the kitchen and leave the wood box filled for the next
person.
During the summer's inspections by horseback, I returned
to my cabin after dark and on one occasion saw a bulging gunny-
sack hanging from a tree branch outside my kitchen door. I cut
it down and carried it inside. I lighted my coal oil lamp and
opened the sack. There on my table was tho most beautiful
piece of beef I ever saw. I set to work to make hot biscuits,
which I ate with butter and honey along with a big slz/ling
steak. I cleaned up the dishes, took out my pipe, put my feel
up before the stove, and began to ponder who could have given
me this treat of fresh meat.
I recalled that about a month before, a cattleman had come
by, saying that floods had ruined his mountain road and made
it impossible for his chuck Wogon to get through to the store
for supplies, and asking if I had any to spare. I gave him
half my flour and bacon.
Shortly after I had received the meat, this cattleman rode
by and waved at me and called out, "Did you get the meat?" My
hunch was correct.
Later, cattlemen complained that too many people, unac
quainted with the ways of the frontier, were coming in and
stealing and leaving kitchens in disorder. Increase of popu
lation was beginning to have &n effect on our gracious back-
country living.
Chall: Did you remain long in the Tonto Forest?
Santa Fe National Forest
WCL: No, for soon I was transferred to the Santa Fe National
Forest, a true timber forest that brought into play much of
the knowledge I had been taught in forestry. This was 3_new
country to me. It was a picturesque area in the upper Rio
Grande Valley where mountains rose on Hicorita Peak to
thirteen thousand feet. I manned the Peak with a forest
guard who was a fire lookout.
27
Chall: What were your duties here?
WCL: In the Santa Fe Forest my duties included administration of
timber sales on government land. The Sant.a Barbara Tie and
Pole Company, which was a subsidiary of the Santa Fe Railroad,
had contracted for the timber on Santa Barbara Creek to make
into hewed and sawed railway ties. In the spring, these were
floated down the Santa Barbara stream, in high water fed by
melting snow, to the Rio Grande. Also I had to mark timber
in the timber sale area to be cut, and to scale logs that
were skidded into the sawmill pond. Further, it was my duty
to see that lands were left in good condition and that slash
was disposed of safely to reduce fire hazards. Timber was
cut, up to eleven thousand fe^t.
Chall: Why did you leave this Santa le Forest work?
WCL: Just as soon as the United Stutes declared war on Germany in
1917, I volunteered and was assigned to the Tenth Engineers,
A.E.F.; that became the Lumberjack Regiment of the American
Expeditionary Forces.
THE FOREST SERVICE, 1915-1917
CTaped questions and answers]
Chall: What I hoped that we could get into today was your original
experience as a forest ranger. You had gained quite a bit
of background in Oxford that was useful to you.
WCL: Oh yes.
Tonto National Forest
Chall: Now when you were in the Tonto Forest were you living a
rather solitary life?
WCL: Well, in the ranger station there was room for me. At times
the ranger's wife would have me in to meals, but ordinarily
I went out to the store or to a little restaurant in the town
of Payson, Arizona. Payson hus now become quite a resort
area. In those days there were just a few houses and stores
where the ranchers roundabout got their supplies and their
mai I .
Chall: Where was this cabin where you were doing your own house
keeping? Did you just use that when you were out tn the
field?
WCL: Yes. The ranger was at Payson and the headquarters were
there. But then he assigned me to Pine, Arizona, which is
under the Mogollon Rim. Do you know Arizona at all?
Chall: Not well enough to know the Mogollon Rim.
WCL: It's in the Coconino Plateau, into which eroded the Grand
Canyon. And that Plateau extends to the south of the Grand
Canyon. There's quite a pine forest covering much of this
area, and you come to what is called the Mogollon Rim, which
is an old fault escarpment. When rain storms come up against
this, there are terrific lightning storms. I've been out in
them when the sparks were coming off my hands and my shoes
cracked. I guess I was safer there than being a distance
away from it, because this was where the electricity was
forming and it hadn't reached such high voltages. So it
28
29
WCL: wasn't really as dangerous as it seemed. But this is the
Mogo lion Rim.
Chall: Were there pine forests around it?
WCL: Yes, especially up on the Coconino Plateau there's some find
timber. But primarily it is more or less oaks. The Arizona
cypress is endemic here. There's only a small area of the
world where the Cyp ressu s_ a r i zon i ca and the Cypressus labra
grow. The bark peals off; it's distinctive in that respect .
You find it all over the west now and it's used for an orna
mental shade tree. I've seen it in England and in Europe.
In South Africa throughout the Basutoland and at about
ten thousand feet elevation, ! was surprised to find two
rows of Arizona cypress.
Chall: It had been planted there?
WCL: Yes. It's a very favored tree because it usually has a good
form, it doesn't have any diseases, it's resistant to insects
and also it's hardy.
Chall: Is it drought-resistant?
WCL: Yes. It is especially used for planting in rows. I always
look upon it as a friend.
Chall: Then you were really doing two things while you were in Tonto.
You were protecting the forest as it was, and you were also
watching over the cattle land.
Lumbermen vs. Government
WCL: You have to realize that the term "forest" In the Forest Ser
vice speaks of an administrative area, and not necessarily of
the type of vegetation that lives on it. In the early days
there was a contest between the government and the lumbermen
who were anxious to keep the land in the private domain. And
they had a graft of getting school teachers during their vaca
tions to homestead quarter-sections of land that contained
fine stands of timber. These young women from the eastern
part of the country came out and the land office was quite
generous in letting most anything go. So they would home
stead this quarter-section of fine timber and make no attempt
whatsoever to cultivate it or build a house on it. Then the
30
WCL: lumber company would buy it from them at a very low figure.
Chal I : I see.
WCL: So this kind of steal went on in the public domain over vast
areas. This applied pretty much to land covered wfth good
timber. Then we had the bordering areas which were blocked
out without any attempt to follow the forest boundary. These
areas were blocked out for administrative purposes and also
for watershed protection, because the Forest Service Is res
ponsible not only for growing timber or growing grass for
pasture, but also for controlling storm waters and erosion.
In these other areas where grazing was the principle use,
there was a competition betweon the cattlemen and the sheep
herders.
Cattlemen vs. Sheep Men
Chal I: Did you get into the fights between cattlemen and sheep men?
WCL: Yes, I was a part of this period. The catilemen would say
that sheep would ruin the ran<je for cows, and cows wouldn't
graze after sheep.
Chal I: Well, there wasn't much left, was there?
WCL: Well, in some places there was,. You can manage grazing if
it's properly done, just as you can manage a forest. It's
a resource, and if you don't over-graze the land give it
time to rest, it recovers. You see, the nutrient portion
of the plants is stored in the roots, and you have to have
leafage to produce the nutrients to store in roots. If
you permit rests to take place so that the leaf grows up,
then you strengthen the root system and that will increase
the growth of grassy forage vegetation. Then also the theory
that cattle won't graze after sheep is more or less a myth.
Of course, it was their competition around waterholes that
brought on the fights usually.
Chal I : Oh, for water.
WCL: Yes. Of course, the sheep men could come in and get out.
The cow man had to have some cultivated land to grow some
hay for forage, so he couldn't follow the animals around.
He had to learn to graze his cattle around his headquarters.
31
WCL: But the sheep man had his own supplies and he could go off
anywhere he wanted to. He wouldn't restrict himself to what
was accepted as the cow man's country, so the cow man would
shoot at him — not for fun either. Around this area, I know of
about twenty men who were killed.
Chal I : Well, what were you able to do then? Were you trying to en
courage the understanding of the proper use of vegetation, or
were you just trying to keep ""'he sheep and cattle men ;ipart?
Were you really a policeman, or were you trying to educate?
WCL: Of course, as rangers there w,is nothing we would run away
from. Anything that came up that concerned the use of the
area and the safety of people was our concern. But before,
when the public domain was open, this war went on. The cow
men could run some sheep men out and the sheep men would run
the cow men out. But when the area was withdrawn and brought
under the public domain of the; National Forests, then the
Forest Service administered the land and they brought the
cattle men and the sheep men 'ogether. They recognized that
both had rights to raise their livestock under certain super
vision.
Chall: I see.
WCL: And of course, the principal thing that tho sheep men wanted
was to raise their herds in the desert in the winter time.
And then in the spring, migrate to where they would graze in
the grassy glades in the high mountains. Then in the fall of
the year they would come down again and cross over all this
territory. Now, the Forest Service proposed, and got them to
agree, to set up driveways. />nd my job war. to keep the sheep
and herders in the driveway. Of course if the driveway had
been grazed down badly, a sheep herder might go around behind
the mountain and hole up there for three days or so and feed
up his herd and then come into the driveway and go on. So I
had to hunt these out and keep them on the move.
Chall: I see. You must have been on horseback much of the time.
WCL: Oh yes, all the time. I lived on a horse. I had to hcive
several mounts. Well, that I enjoyed very much.
Chall: Yes, you were a real rugged outdoorsman. Now during this
period, were you studying anything new?
32
Personal Chal lenges
WCL: Well, that's where my geology came in to very good advantage,
because to work out the geologic structure, the history of an
area, is quite a challenging thing. Of course I had a degree
in geology. So I had quite a good background to work out the
geology of the area I was in.
Chall: Were you supposed to be doing this too? Or was this just a
personal challenge?
WCL: Just a challenge. But that's what made our Forest Service
so fine. There was William B. Greeley. Ho was a big, genial,
keen, broad-minded man. And he had entered the Service as a
ranger. So that's when you could discuss your own territory.
Many of these Forestry people may not have been geologists,
but they were interested in all that was going on in their
region, and the wildlife too. Curiously enough, I ate more
venison in Germany from the German forests than I ever did
here because they managed their game there. Here we simply
murdered our game.
Chal 1 : At that time.
WCL: Of course, now in some places we have a superabundance of game.
Chall: So you were just enjoying the fruits of your background as you
went around on horseback.
WCL: Well, then of course, one had to be self-reliant to be a
forest ranger. You had to do what was necessary to get on and
to have the right attitude, (tut so many young men now try to
inch out, to get the most money they can per month and advan
tages this way and that way, without seeming to have any chal
lenge. Some of them today don't get my admiration.
But back in this period, you had men looking to the future.
Actually foresters have been the forerunners, the pioneers,
in most conservation programs and philosophy, even more than
our agriculturalists or our agronomists. Of course the
agronomist is always thinking of the next harvest. But the
forester has to think in terms of decades or hundreds of years
because his crop doesn't mature so quickly. And this very act
of thinking ahead, planning for the future, creates a type of
mental competence, mental interest and stimulation that is good
medicine, and it would be good medicine for a lot of these
newer fellows today.
33
Santa Fe_ National Forest
Chall: Did you stay long in the Tontc Forest?
•\
WCL: I was on the Tonto at first, but later on I was transferred
to the Santa Fe National Forest which is a true timber forest.
My only trouble with the job of fire lookout was that the snow
didn't melt away until toward the end of July, so that the
lower country could dry up anc be a high fire hazard before we
could man the Peak, so we set our lookouts lower down to give
a wider view over the lower country. I've explained my duties
regarding timber sales in my written answers to your questions.
Chall: Where were your headquarters?
WCL: The headquarters camp of this company was at Tres Ritos (Three
Rivers), located at 10,500 feet elevation where three beautiful
trout streams came together. In winter we were snowed in for
at least two months with little communication with the outside.
The time might have laid heavily on our hands, except that dur
ing these long, long snowbound days, the tie inspector of the
Santa Fe Railroad and I decided to become proficient in chess.
So we bought the books containing records of the games of the
masters. We would play those to see how they would go about
it and their objectives. Then we would go on our own and see
how we got on. Well, anyway we had a very interesting time,
and my interest in chess has never died out since that time.
Chall: Was this the first that you'd ever played chess?
WCL: Yes. I'd played checkers, bu1 this was the first time that
I played chess. When I was In the War, Captain Coolidge was
the field man of the Committe des Bo is de la Guerre — Committee
of the War Timber. He was stationed at Paris and I was at
Besancon on the northeastern front. And we had to have meet
ings on policies, new orders and so on that were coming out.
So I would go to Paris, and after we had taken care of our
business then we'd go down to the Cafe de Regence or the Cafe
du Univers where the world's headquarters of chess was, and
we'd play there. Sometimes we'd get whopped. But I held up
much better than I thought I might.
Chall: All those winters in the woods gave you valuable training.
WCL: Among other things in the Santa Fe Forest, I was appointed
to make surveys and to select lands that had deep soils with
water nearby and general topography suitable for cultivation
to grow food crops in case that a threat of war might come
from an invasion from Mexico. But no invasion ever took place.
34
WCL: There was quite a feeling thai the Germans would incite Mexico
to invade the United States through New Mexico, because more
than half the people are Mexicans in New Mexico.
Chall: I see.
WCL: And if they did that, we rangers would call ourselves a thin
green line and be the first to meet the attack. And so we had
ammunition. I had a rifle on my saddle and a revolver and stores
of ammunition.
Chall: So you were ready.
WCL: I still derive great pleasure from my memories of the gorgeous
scenery and coloring of this region, where the purplish green
of the alpine fir and cork bark fir, and the bold patterns of
old burns of forest fires, are marked by the golden yellows of
aspen trees that come in after the burns.
Chall: After the burning, the aspens come in?
WCL: Yes, they always do. They follow the fires because the aspens
start and then they grow up. Underneath other trees, in time
they die out. At least the roots remain alive. Then when the
fire runs over, with the removal of competition from the other
vegetation around, the aspens sprout up quickly. So with a
big fire, after a couple of years, you could trace; the boundary
of the fire by this golden yellow. And not all the area would
be burned, so you would have -this purplish green, especially
in the shadowy, mountainous araas, and it was simply gorgeous.
Chal I : It would be.
WCL: And on my beautiful horse riding on the high trail, it was
really an experience. And yet I got paid for it. Daughter]
Chall: That's always even better.
WCL: Before long, the United States declared war on Germany in
1917. I volunteered and was assigned to the Tenth Engineers.
APPOINTMENT.
DISTRICT No
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE,
OFFICE OF THE APPOINTMENT CLERK.
WASHINGTON. D. C.
' '*.
st 10,
Lr. '"alter C. Lowdermilk,
Forest Service.
Sir:
You are hereby notified that you have been appointed to the
position of Forest Ranpor, - ----__-_______ — _
on the miscellaneous roll of the FOREST SERVICE, at a salary
of $ 1100 per annum , to take effect on A, -ust L, l'.>17 .
3y transfer from the statutory roll.
You have been granted loara wit ho t pay from tlio termination
of July 31, 191V, until furtuar order, you ha: ing e.itered tiie
wi li t p. ry a or vi c c .
By direction of the Secretary of Agriculture:
Respectfully,
Appointment Clerk.
Legal residence:
34a
II THE LUMBERJACK REGIMENT, 1917-1920
[Written questions and answers]
Chall: What did you do after enlisting in the Armv?
I was inducted into the Army in Fort McDowell, on Angel Island
in the San Francisco Bay. Here we trained for a month and then
were shipped to Washington, D.C., and there training continued.
I was promoted to Technical Sergeant First Class. We set out
for England via Halifax.
The Voyage to Europe
Chall: Did your group have a good time getting acquainted on board
sh ip?
WCL: Well, yes and no. We had a miserable voyage. It was so stormy
that many of our Tenth Engineers were desperately seasick and
periodical I y' rushed to the rail. We all remember how our mascot,
a little goat, staggered to the rail and knelt down on its knees
alongside his American buddies and contributed hii bit to the
sea.
When we arrived at night and marched through Glascow,
Scotland, anxious local people reached out to pinch us, to
assure themselves that at last the Americans had come and that
we were not ghosts. From Glascow, we were almost immediately
shipped to northeast France. Our French railway cars were
designated, "Capacity 8 horses — 40 men."
Chall: What did your Lumberjack Regiment do on arrival?
WCL: We began at once to establish camps within the forests of the
Jura Mountains to house our lumberjacks, and began cut-ting logs
immediately to be ready as soon as the sawmill could be set up.
Our expeditionary forces were in need of lumber and timbers in
large quantities. The sawmill roared day and night. I remem
ber waking up one night with a start. Then 1 realized that the
noisy mill had stopped — the silence had awakened ne.
35 '
35a
August M, 1918.
From : 1st Liout. Pred Morrison, 10th 2n<?inocrs
To : C. 0. 10th Engineers (Thru i ilitur.;. 3h;~?t.tels;
Subject : Military Administration- JJeooranend ition S£t. 1st class
Walter C. Lowdormilk for commission.
1. oorgoant First class Walter G. Lowie.* :ilk has been
a no/riber of Company ?, 10th Engineers (Forestry) to which ho untJ
I hoth -•••in \ltaohci; r.ince liii^nst IP, 10 IV. '<-. h-. .; iK-or.
ivii-idi-.tc couHua.nd since I:ovemb,;r 103 /.
n. :ao\v ii.i i to ue a rau.u of cto/lin. /orth, i i»ie
uiorl. be<'.rin^ , well educated and oi uausu tlly rood 'poroojial-
itv. TTO poai:eases a thorou.'/h workin- knowlou; o of tceluiicul
i'oroatry vrl t*3 the ooniained fcnowledrce of Pronoh for<;str.\ met node
:ii.u ?ore«vry -prjuitiaoc; a?, related to Ainerictin ox::loit tion;:1- oi1
and 'oitnj-^.iono 7;iti rcsToct to loj--. in^ 'ihu'to-i-:.. il'1 i^' " :r,r .'a • '••
;xbl^ yul: "'•fonoh flaontly. I GBpocii**!!,-.' oo i OM hi ji m .-i
r.ian o-" .;::treno doTc-tion to dut.:rt iudittttrioun .O,VC.K ^u
I brliovo t/; '-".• "rif: v/onl'i make u valuable officer in yon
?ont?-try oj1'-^.1 '•Ionian* rol-it^fl indnstrios.
*
a/
.i l.fO.L
1st Lieut., Knirs?., 'J.S.a.
36
Timber Acquisition Officer
Chall: What was your personal assignment?
WCL: I was soon commissioned and assigned the task of Timber Ac
quisition Officer. This meant that I was to search out bodies
of timber suitable for the needs of our American armies in
northern France.
Chall: How did American methods of cutting compare with French methods?
WCL: The French lumberjacks were very careful in their procedures of
felling trees. A man with a hoop around himself and the tree
and with spiked shoes, climbed the tree, cutting off all branches
and leaving only a tuft at the top. Then by very careful and
accurate undercutting at the stump, they would fell the tree
with remarkable accuracy within a foot or two of where they
chose. In this way, the tree fell with a minimum of damage to
surrounding young growth on which the new forest depended.
But our American lumberjacks refused to climb and cut the
branches this way. This was war and our armies required timber,
so they slaughtered the French forests by felling trees,
branches and all, destroying surrounding young growth without
concern for future forests.
Chall: Did you return to the United States immediately after the
Armi stice?
Sett I ing Timber Account After the Armistice
WCL: Of course the operations ceased after the Armistice, but I was
asked to remain on for quite a time. Then my job, with a few
assistants, was to survey the timber that had not been cut but
that our Army had agreed to pay for. I had to sign over to
French authorities the sawmills of northeastern France (there
were nearly a dozen of them), including timber and facilities,
to release our American Army from any further responsibilities.
This new assignment meant that I was given a car and driver
and an assistant officer, and for several months I traveled
over east and northeast France. As a Timber Acquisition Of
ficer, it had been my responsibility to see that cur sealers
37
WCL: kept accurate records of timber cut and processed, looking to
final settlement with the French government. When the French
account or bill was given us, there was a discrepancy of about
two million dollars in their favor. We were able to establish
the accuracy of our records. They did not contest our totals.
Thus we saved our government a large sum of money in the final
settlement.
Commission on War Damages in I nvaded Regions
Chall: How long did you remain in France?
WCL: It was a year or more after the fighting stopped. Part of the
time I spent in Paris on a Commission that ended tar too soon,
for we had a good set-up, good pay and generous expense money.
This was a special Commission of about five of us, set up at
the request of President Woodrow Wilson, who questioned the ac
curacy of the big claims made by France against Germany for
war damages in the invaded regions. Somehow, the Allies came
to an agreement and our Commission was terminated.
THE LUMBERJACK REGIMENT, 1917-1920
[Taped questions and answers]
Timber Acquisition Officer
Chal!: What were some of your duties as Timber Acquisition Officer?
WC I. : This meant that I was to search out bodies of timber to fill
the needs of American armies in France, and to locate mills
and other sites in northern France to saw up this timber. For
example, we had to build docking facilities at St. Nazaire,
France. The docking facilities that the French had built were
quite inadequate for the use that was made of them.
When we began to bring over our military supplies in great
quantities, then we had to increase the docking sites, and so
docks had to be built and we needed piling. Tree;., suitable
for piling must be a certain size, straight, and also not too
big in diameter. So I had a small staff of cruisers, and we
cruised the forests to find out what kind of timbor and how
much there was within the range of our sawmill.
Chal I: For all kinds of purposes that you knew you needed?
WCL: Yes. So that was one of my jobs. Of course, French foresters
didn't want to see us cut this fastest growing stage of timber —
small, straight. The big trees were all right. To then I said,
"Monsieur La Bode, here is timber of those sizes we most need,
and here are others." And he then said, "Oh, mon dieu, vous
connaissez mon bo is mieux que moi!" ("My God, you know my
forest better than I do!") Then of course we had to have
barbed wire and entanglement stakes by the millions.
Chal I : Your ability to speak French must have served you well.
Sett I ing the Two Mi I I ion Pol lar Claim
Chall: What caused the two million dollar discrepancy between your
figures and those of the French?
38
38a
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39
WCL: The French depend on volume tables. Of cou -se on.; of the thing?
we always do when going into a forest area, is to work up
volume tables which are based on the diameters and heights of
trees. And then we have formulae to determine th<a amount of
volume within trees of certain diameters and cert. tin heights.
Now in the cruise of the timber, the size of the tree at
breeist height — four and one-half feet above the ground — is
measured or estimated.
Of course in France we measured trees with calipers. But
when it comes to the height of the tree, the French determine
the average height of trees for these dimensions, and record
and work out the volume. Now the heights of the frees, as I
said, were determined beforehand. But the French set up
averages for different sites.
Where the soil is fertile the trees will grow taller and
the dimension of the tree will be quite different. For
example, if you are on a sandy dry slope, the height of the
tree will be much less; the average height, even fhough for
the same diameter, of the tree will be shorter. Now if you
have; two bodies of timber, and in one the soil is fertile and
the slopes face north and there is a cooler moistor climate,
then your trees will be taller. But on the dry sites, your
tree will not be so tall. Well, ordinarily the French will
outline certain areas where they will take these fwo heights
and average them, so the volume of timber for this area will
then be based upon the average height for these measured
diameters. Now in order for this volume table to work, it
would have to be based on an average height. But if your
forest authorities want to see that you get the timber on a
rocky slope and be charged as if it were the average, the
quantity of timber is less and yet you have to pay more for
an adequate supply to meet your needs. And you see, nobody
had pointed this out.
I explained it to Colonel Greeley. He saw my point.
So we Americans made a stand. We contested the scale of the
French foresters, which wasn't a very nice thing to do, since
we were Allies in a victorious war, but we were paying a big
price anyway.
Chall: So the French accepted it when it was pointed out to them.
WCL: The French had no comeback, because they knew they had used
this trick. Then there was one other case. We also included
the branch wood which the French use for fuel. They piled it
up in what they called "steers," that is, a meter tall and a
meter on each of three sides — this equalled a cubic meter of
piled wood. And of course we Americans wouldn't pile it, we
left it on the ground as slash. But I had kept a scale on
6 Jam,, '!&.
Captain Roger K. MoGee,
engineers (Forestry), Lerier (Doubs),
Assignment of Lt. ... C. Lovdeznilk*
1. Lt. .-. C. Lowdermilk has been detached froa the 24th Company, 20th
Engineers and instructed to report to you for duty at Lerlor. Lt. Loudens ilk
...lil >ro *t~£ *-i««t- ixi i.i*o Jin&ii»&at itoteMklaijamtt KIB will net be assigned to
any racancies in your command. 2he purpose of the abore instructions is to
bavo Lt« Lowdermilk arailable in the Besanoon District for the next three
weeks in order to assist this office and the American Delegate on the C.I.B.G.
at Paris in investigating matters which may arise in connection with the
settlement of timber purchases, daaage claims, or the transfer of lumber or
technical engineer equipment to the French. Lt. Lowdermilic should be held
arailable for duties of this character and should not be giren an assignment
as detachment oomaander. He will, of course, be arailable to assist yourself
in carrying out any instructions which you may receive in regard to the abort
subjects.
By direction of Brig. Gen. Jadwini
W. B.
Lt.Col.,4ngrs.
39a
40
WCL: this. So they accused us when their scale didn't agree with
ours. And they said, "Well, you lost it in the branch wood
which you didn't make use of." I let them make that point.
Then I reminded them that at Gevrey Chambertin they had wanted
the branch wood themselves. And all we were charged for by
the French government was supposedly just the stem wood. And
they agreed to it when I showed them the discrepancy. In this
case, we were both working on the same basis. And then I said,
"The reason why the volume is different is because your for
esters only marked where the trees were short, and not where
the trees were tall." Then they finally Sciid, "Well, we have
conceded on price, and we expect you to concede on volume."
Chall: I guess your ability to keep records was o1 vital importance
during these transactions.
WCL: Well, it was very interesting. It was rather a tense situa
tion because for instance, they said, "You've got all these
branches left in the woods and the uncut ends of trees." Then
I got crews from our own forces and a lot of string and I set
these boys out to run string to mark off lanes. And then I
had the boys measure every piece of wood in them that was a
meter long or thirty centimeters in diameter. Thore were
thousands of pieces, and I had it all listed up on paper and
presented it. And the French foresters thought, "What will
these Americans do?"
Chall: These brash young men.
WCL: Then they couldn't use the argument that we had left it in
the woods anymore. Still, their volume was short. We were
paying them for more timber than we were getting.
Chall: But even with all that, you came out two million dollars or
so ahead?
WCL: Well, they agreed to accept our figures, and then we didn't
lose it. This gets me back into a very interesting stage
of my life. Oh, I had lots of fun.
Chall: You enjoyed the challenges.
Commission on_ War Damages J_n_ Invaded Regions
Chall: What was your work on the special commission set up by
41
Chal 1 : President Wi I son?
WCL: He questioned the accuracy of big claims rruide by Franco against
Germany for the war damage in the invaded regions, such as fields
riddled with trenches and buildings destroyed, railroads and
equipment ruined, forests shattered and ruined by shell explo
sions and embedding of shrapnel. You see, when the shrapnel
would embed itself in the wood they couldn't use fhe logs in
the sawmill, because the saw would cut into the shrapnel and be
ruined. It was worthless except for firewood. So the French
had a legitimate claim here. The bridges also of course were
destroyed. France had suffered heavily from the invasion of
the German army, and apparently they wanted adequate repaymenl .
But then somehow the A I 1 ies came to an agreement ond our Com
mission was terminated.
Chal I: How did it happen that you were appointed to these special
commi ssions?
WCL: Well, of course, we were there. And I might say l-hat I had a
rather distinctive position because I had had very good train
ing and also experience in German forests, which was quite
something in those days. Then of course I was acfive ;md on
the staff of our Commander, Colonel Greeley, and '50 they put
me to work.
IV THE FOREST SERVICE—MI SSOULA, MONTANA, 1920-1922
[Written questions and answersD
Chall: What did you do when your war work was ended?
WCL: Of course I came back to the U.S. Forest Service where I had
a good job !
During World War I, my chief in the Tenth Engineers
was Colonel William B. Greeley. After my extra time in France
on the Liquidation Commission, I returned to the United States
and visited Colonel Greeley in Washington, D.C. He was now
Chief of the United States Forest Service.
Colonel Greeley gave me an opportunity to choose the line
of work I wished to follow in the Forest Service. He said the
three most promising branches were administration, forest pro
tection, and forest research. I chose forest research.
Therefore, I went to Dr. Earle Clapp, Chief of Research o1
the National Forest Service. He had surveyed the status of
forest research throughout the national forests, jnd had been
successful in getting several Forest Experiment Stations es
tablished and equipped. He had appointed capable forest
scientists to man these Experiment Stations. But with all
this, there was still little application of the results of
this research by the Operations staff of the Forest Service.
So when the war was over, Dr. Clapp got the support of
Colonel Greeley to set up a new position in each National
Forest Region of the country and to man this position in each
case with a well-trained forester. This new officer was to
be called Regional Research Officer. Dr. Clapp had traveled
widely around the nation to interview candidates and to in
struct the appointees in objectives in this nation-wide
project.
Appoi nted Regional Research Of f icer
Chall: Were you one of those interviewed by Dr. Clapp for this
position?
WCL: Yes. There was need for one such officer for each region of
42
43
WCL: the Forest Service. I was interviewed and offered this posi
tion for Region One; that included the so-called "Inland Empire"
of the western white pine (Pinus monticola) belt .and tributary
forest areas. This region Included the northeastern part of the
state of Washington, northern Idaho, and northwest Montana.
Missoula was my headquarters. My goal was to get the results
of forest research put into practice by the Operations or
Administrative Branch of the Forest Service.
Chall: How did you carry on this new type of work?
WCL: There were no precedents. Each regional man was thrown upon
his own resources. We had a free hand to imbue operations per
sonnel of the Forest Service with the importance of research
and the desirability of applying the results of research where-
ever fitting. An unmentioned objective wab to overcome the
slurs cast at forest scientists, called by Operations, "long
hairs." Presumably, we were impractical theorists.
Chall: How did you begin this work?
WCL: First I visited and became thoroughly acquainted with all
members of the Forest Research Station and field r.taff of
Region One, and with the problems under study and the status
of findings so far reached. Having done this, I visited the
Operations staff, including logging si I viculturists, marking
timber to be cut, and forest protection people, providing for
detection and suppression of forest fires, and road and log
ging railroad construction. I became well acquainted with
such problems and works.
Chall: About how long did this take you?
WCL: It took me a few months to isolate a number of urgent prob
lems and to ask many questions under all kinds of circum
stances. Then I began a search for the key problem of the
woods under forest management.
At last, after about six to eight months, I decided that
slash disposal, associated with the logging of forest trees
for timber and lumber, was the measure that, despite strict
regulations, was costing a heavy charge against the timber
stands of the national forests. Here results were the least
satisfactory.
Chall: What kinds of timber species were you dealing with?
WCL: Forests of the Inland Empire enjoyed ample rainfall, were
favored with good soils and rapid growth of all species. These
forest tree species included:
44
WCL: I. Western White Pine (Pinus monticola)
2. Douglas Fir (Pseudotsuga Douglas! i)
3. Western Larch (Larix occidentales)
4. White Fir (Abies grandis)
5. Western Red Cedar (Thuja pi icata)
6. Western Hemlock (Tsuga)
7. Englemann Spruce (Picea Englemanni i )
Chall: Which of these species was in greatest demand at that time?
WCL: Western white pine was in greatest demand. The big trees
provided clear lumber, an exceedingly high-quality wood. Trees
were six to eight feet in diameter and brought good prices. In
those days, the Diamond and Ohio natch companies were sharply
bidding against each other for these glorious and magnificent
trees. What a pity it was to cut these beautiful logs for the
lowly purpose of making little matches!
So the Forest Service was induced to call for bids to log
these woods. But species other than white pine which eire valu
able today would not at that time yield returns to justify log
ging and processing. These so-called "weed species" wore left
stand i ng!
Problems of Slash Disposal
Chall: Were there laws at that time to clean up the slash left on
the ground?
WCL: According to Idaho state laws, it was necessary to set fire
to logging slash to reduce fire hazards after logging. Such
slash fires also killed weed species and under-sized trees. By
this means the forest floor was burned more or less clean for a
time. Fire hazards were reduced until dead weed trees began to
rot at ground level. All such dead and dry trees then blew
down and left the cut over and burned over forest land a
jackstraw-I ike pile of flammable material.
Chall: Then I suppose these became another fire hazard?
WCL: Yes, all too frequently succeeding fires burned where past
fires had been. These burned out the humus from the soil. On
these burned out soils, ashes were compacted by the rains;
storm runoff was increased and contributed to higher flood
stages and soil erosion. Thus natural forest conditions were
45
WCL : destroyed. In the end, the condition of the forest land was
dep lorable.
A forest stand so badly damaged was sure to deteriorate;
restocking of valuable species was woefully inadequate.
Chall: Then did you decide this was the key problem for your studies?
WCL: Yes, I decided that for Region One, the key problem was how
the disposal of logging slash was to be carried out for the
best results.
Jim Gerard, an able and a practical self-trained silvi-
culturalist, who was also our regional logging enqineer,
collaborated with me in a series of slash disposal experi
ments in logged over areas. Along with customary piling and
burning of slash, we tried out "live burning" of slash. This
practice consisted of starting fires at convenient distances
apart in damp or wet slash. We would use dry wood to get a
hot fire going. Then we tossed branches of slash and other
logging debris onto the hot fires. Such hot fires would dry
out the slash even though soggy with wet snow. From then on,
even in light rains we were able to reduce the hazards of
logging slash by live burning!
Wet slash would be burned out in this manner, but 1he
forest mulch or forest litter would not be burned, it would
remain in place and protect the soil and favor infiltration
of waters from rains and snow melt. Thus we controlled
erosion and conserved soils of logged over lands also.
Chall: Did others in the Forest Service recognize this as, a key
problem?
WCL: Yes, we were so successful in this method of disposing of
logging slash that state authorities recommended that Idaho
law be revised by the Legislature in accordance with our
findings. This was done.
WCL: This slash disposal problem was tough. Do you feel your
Oxford and German training helped you to solve it successfully?
Chall: Yes, perhaps so. We made more progress in its solution in
Region One than anywhere else. For this success, I give
credit to my thorough training under German Forstmeisters as
well as to the technical studies in the School of Forestry
in Oxford under my venerable Professor, Sir William Schlich,
and to collaboration with able field men in our forest regions.
46
Development of_ Forest Conservation in the United States
Chall: Dr. Lowdermi I k, will you discuss the development of forest
conservation in the United States at this time.
WCL: Theory and practice of forestry aroused a powerful appeal in
a small group of public-minded Americans. In the first place,
forest resources of America were enormous. Land covered by
primeval stands of the finest timber in the world made up
much of the public domain of the new country of the United
States.
In accordance with the long-range policy of Abraham Lincoln
to settle up the vast domain, it was possible for timbermen to
connive with people of the frontier, including hundreds of
school teachers, to homestead land with stands of valuable
timber. These homesteads were then deeded over to timbermen,
and this enabled them to build up great fortunes in timber
holdings for a small amount of money. These vast timberlands
became a great steal! Early Americans seemed to feel that
our forests were inexhaustible and conservation unnecessary.
Also, these bodies of timber were cut and burned in a
careless and wasteful manner that aroused the indignation of
forestry pioneers. A few great spirits joined together to
protect and to manage these forest areas in line with princi
ples of sustained yields of forest management, and of regula
tion of regimens of streams.
Chall: Who were some of those who tried to reverse the policy of
exploitation of forests?
WCL: One of the first and greatest was George Marsh, a Vermonter,
who first gave expression to a theory that mankind was waste-
fully destroying natural resources in such a manner as to
undermine the future of the country.
Abraham Lincoln had appointed George Marsh Ambassador to
Italy during the Civil War. Being a studious man, and with
little to do as an Ambassador far from our Civil War in the
United States, George Marsh became interested in the decline
and destruction of resources of the ancient Roman Empire.
He traveled over much of the Mediterranean lands and wrote
an epoch-making book, called Man and Nature. Further studies
amplified the theme and in another book, The. Earth as Modified
by Human Action, Marsh described the ruins of the populous
and prosperous Roman Empire. Marsh deplored the ruin of re
sources and consequent fall of Rome.
47
WCL:
Chal
WCL:
Chal
WCL:
These implications aroused a few great minds and gave rise
to the call of governors by Theodore Roosevelt to the White
House Conference in 1908, to consider problems of the conserva
tion of natural resources.
Several excellent papers
Among them was one on minera
by Professor Salisbury,
on the horrible fate of
were read at this Conference.
resources;
one on
a geologist; and one by
timber resources.
land resources
Gifford Pinchot
Out of these deliberations the case of forest destruction
caught the public ear, whereas wastage by erosion of the soils,
more basic than trees, did not. Pinchot aroused the people of
the new nation to the importance of saving the forests and man
aging them to supply the present and future needs of a rapidly
growing country. Pinchot warned of an on-coming timber famine.
How did the government react to this newly aroused public
opin ion?
Responses developed in different ways. One was to set aside
tracts of land, called the Public Domain, into National Forests.
You will be interested that in California the cry of an
on-coming timber famine induced many people to plant Eucalyptus
trees — a rapidly-growing tree species from Australia — to get
rich quick. In selecting this species for thousands of planta
tions, tree planters overlooked one item — the wood was worthless
except for fire wood because of its twisted grain. It's one of
the best examples of how one needs to know all the facts before
he acts.
Was there opposition to setting aside forest lands for the
Publ ic Domai n?
Yes indeed. The timber interests were most vocal against set
ting aside forest lands for National Forests, for this inter
fered with the building of timber empires and great fortunes
at public expense. There then began a race to include as much
timber lands in National Forests as possible within the authori
zation by an Act of Congress. This became a lively subject
throughout the land.
Forestry Pioneers
WCL: But there were few opportunities of learning about scientific
48
WCL: forestry in the United States. Bernhard Fernow, a Professor
of Forestry from Germany, was made the head of one of the
first schools of forestry in the United States, at Cornell
University. Others were established. Dean Henry Solon Graves
set up the Yale School of Forestry, and on his faculty was a
foremost si Iviculturist, Professor James Tourney.
Professor Car! Schenck established the Biltmore School.
It was a unique traveling school of forestry, for sons of
wealthy men. The idea was to save time and quickly to intro
duce his students to actual forest properties undergoing
management. Lectures were held on shipboard and stops were
made to inspect forests and lumbering in different locations
as field work. The idea of this sort of school was good, but
the school failed because students treated their education in
forestry as a lark.
Chall: How was scientific forestry introduced into America?
WCL: This happened in a rather unusual way. The East India Company
of British India induced the German government to send them a
trained forester to draw up a program for growing and manage
ment of teak forests, to replace those being rapidly logged
out in India. The German government sent William Schlich to
British India. The Company was well pleased with Schlich's
plans and employed him to carry them out. Later, his success
earned him a Knighthood when he became a British subject in
about 1886.
Sir William Schlich of course knew German foresters and
the new science and practice of forestry. He was considered
the greatest living authority and his textbooks were widely
used .
It became a common practice for Americans interested in
forestry to call on Sir William in Oxford, who would conduct
them to forests on the Continent where some of the best
examples of managed forests could be studied. So there were
many meetings with Gifford Pinchot, Henry Solon Graves,
Fernow, Raphael Zon and many others. Thus Americans were
introduced to the practice of scientific forestry in Germany.
Forestry became a popular enterprise.
By this time, the Forest School at Oxford was commissioned
to train forestry candidates for British Colonial Forest Ser
vices, under the guidance of William Schlich. It was about
this time that Hugh Bryan and I arrived in Oxford, and I chose
to "do" two schools, one in forestry and the other in geology
in my three years at Oxford. I did practical forestry field
work in the State forests of Hessen Nassau. Dr. Schenck' s
traveling school was closed down before my arrival in Germany.
49
Chall: Apparently Professor Schenck and these pioneers in forestry
had a stimulating influence on you. Were there others too?
WCL: I certainly give great credit to Sir William Schlich, who was
my professor all through my studies in theory and practice in
Oxford and had a great influence in directing my thinking in
forestry. Also, had opportunities later to meet Gifford
Pinchot, especially at his home in Washington. He continued
to arouse public interest and support to save our diminishing
forest stands.
Then too, there was Raphael Zon, during the first part of
this century, who brought to the United States a fund of
knowledge on the influences of forests on floods <md stream
flow. For some time his published works on forests and waters
opened up this subject to us. Some years later, I followed on
into forest hydrology and Zon's mantle fell on my shoulders
for a time.
Then too, I knew Roy Headley, Chief of Operations of the
Forest Service. In fact, he supported my approach to the
study of logging slash disposal referred to above.
Dr. Clapp's book, A National Program of Forest Research,
influenced me too. There was A I do Leopold, a fine man and a
personal friend, in the field of fish and game, who was also
our outstanding philosopher in conservation of natural resources,
Also, my good friend, Ridgley Chapline, with whom I often
discussed erosion problems on grazing lands. Clarence Forsling
and I worked together in research in the southwestern region.
When Samuel T. Dana, Director of the Forest Experiment Station
at Amherst College, came west, ! showed him around, and we
discussed our problems in establishing research in forest man
agement of forest lands of the west.
I also worked closely with Walter Mulford, head of the
Forestry Department of the University of California. He was
on the committee for my doctorate and we also had close contact
during the years of my erosion studies in California.
Chall: Were there also forestry schools developing during this period?
WCL: There were a number of universities besides Cornell and Yale
establishing forest schools in response to a general demand
for learning "the science and practice of forestry. Some of
them developed into fine schools, as those in Anne Arbor,
Michigan, and the Missoula, Montana Forestry School. The
Universities of Oregon, Washington and Wisconsin developed
outstanding Forest Products Laboratories.
THE FOREST SERV ICE— Ml SSOULA, MONTANA, 1920-1922
L~Taped questions and answers]
Chall: So then after the various settlements had been worked out,
you came back to the United States.
WCL: When I came back, I was interviewed by Dr. Earle Clapp and
offered the position of Regional Research Officer for Region
One. That included the so-called inland empire of the Western
White Pine belt and tributary forest areas.
Chall: You really went into the wilds, didn't you?
WCL: Oh yes. Missoula was my headquarters and my chief was the
venerable R. H. Rut I edge as Regional Forester, a wonderful
man. He was one of those gentle, -thoughtful , fair, honest men
that the Forest Service seemed to produce, a man who had the
confidence of the people with whom he dealt. You needed such
men, because in those days the settlers and cattlemen were not
very favorable toward the Forest Service.
Chall: No, you were curtailing their complete freedom.
WCL: That's right. We wanted to see regulations carried out.
Chall: By the way, where were you when Mr. Clapp interviewed you?
Did you come back to the Tonto or the Santa Fe Forest?
WCL: He found me in Region Three at the Albuquerque headquarters.
And incidentally, Region Three of our Southwest established
an esprit de corps. If you'd once been in the Forest Service
there, somehow you were especially attached to it as you went
to other places. For instance, we have Starker Leopold at the
University here, who is the son of my close friend, the late
Aldo Leopold of Region Three. His two sons, Starker and Luna,
are both of them marvelous fellows, very able, very effective.
Duties as Research Officer
Chall: This is a most interesting sidelight on the Forest Service.
What now did you have facing you in Region One?
50
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
FOREST SERVICE
DISTRICT 3
50a
AODRCSS REPLY TO
DISTRICT FORESTER
AND REFER TO i
Personnel
QA» AND EncTmc BLDO.
ALIUQUCMQUC, N. Mix.
November 20, 1919,
I.Ir. , /alter 0. Lowdermilk,
Hi.- soul a, Montana.
Dear Llr. Lov/deriailk:
Upon the occasion of your' leaving this District to
assume your netf duties in District 1, I v/unt you to know that
\ve are he.vjrtily appreciative of the good work that you have
done here -,nd that we feel proud to graduate you into your pre
sent important position in spite of the fact tteit ;vef as a Dis
trict, are the losers by the transaction. It cannot be too
strongly emphasized that the entire Forest Service is still very
much in need of young technical men who have the combination of
experience, personality, earnestness and enthusiasm.
It is our hope that you will feel that this District
lias contriuuted something to what you will undoubtedly accomplish
in your new position and we hope that we shall occasionally have
the opportunity of seeing you and hearin;; of your <.vork and prog
ress.
Very sincerely yours,
i'RAKK C. fl. tOOLEH, Acting District Forester,
By
~ -*- '-*//'"1 " "*• — "*
51
WCL: As Regional Forest Research Officer, I began my t.isk. I
visited and became thoroughly acquainted with all members of
the Forest Research station and field staff, and with the prob
lems under study and the status of the findings so far reached.
Chall: What were some of these findings?
WCL: Now, for example, research had discovered that the white pine
seed, of the Western white pine (Pinus monticola), are stored
in the duff or litter, and if we could preserve that duff, then
we could be assured that the white pine seeds weru stored —
more or less as in a refrigerator — and they would grow when the
stand was opened up to sunlight. This was established at Ex
periment Stations before I came into the picture. The opera
tions people dealing with slash were supposed to keep this in
mi nd .
Slash Disposal
Chall: After you had become acquainted with the staff and their
problems, what did you do?
WCL: In a few months I had isolated a number of urgent problems.
Then I began to search for the key problem of the woods under
forest management. What I call the key problem is one which,
when solved, solves many other sub-problems along with it.
Chall: Oh, I see.
WCL: You know that in a log jam, there's some key log; if you blow
that out, then it frees the whole jam.
Chall: And you decided that slash disposal was the key problem?
WCL: Yes. In these days, as I mentioned in my written answers to
questions, the Diamond Match and Ohio Match companies were bid
ding against each other for the Western white pine.
I used to rebel against it, but of course, really, we were
cutting those stands too early. And I advocated the principle
that a stand of timber was not economically ripe to be cut
until the cut stand would pay for measures to conserve the
crop. Because, as I have written, the other trees in the
forest were not considered valuable enough to pay for any
special measures, or even to cut them, so they were left stand
ing.
Then a state law in Idaho required that after a cutover
area is finished, the lumbermen had to go in and burn the slash,
52
WCL: but this slash disposal would burn and kill all these other
so-called weed trees. It removed the slash from the forest
floor for a time, but in a short time these dead trees rotted
off at the ground level and they would fall, becoming great
pi les of dead timber.
I made a study of slash disposal, with Miller, the Dean of
the Forest School of Idaho, entitled "Minimum Requirements in
Forest Management." And then there's the study I made with
Jim Gerard. He hadn't gone to forest school. But I told him
he was one of the best si I viculturists we had In Region One.
"Well," he said, "I never went to forest school." I said,
"But you've got the knowledge; I don't care how you got it,
I give you credit for it."
Chall: Was he one of the operational men?
WCL: Yes. And that's where we worked together. I made him senior
author in my study of slash disposal.
Chall: So this first burning of slash, while seemingly a protective
measure, created a serious problem.
WCL: Yes. It was an accepted practice of the time and the place
in this inland empire. Fire hazards were reduced until the
dead weed trees began to rot and blow down. Then in fact, it
was practically impossible to fight a fire in that material
because it was so flashy and fire advanced so rapidly in It.
So whenever a f i re occurred in this material, we had to re
treat back to the green forest where we had a better chance
of stopping it.
Chall: How long would it take between the time that the first fire
had been made over the original slash and the dead trees
began to fall down?
WCL: Three to five years usually. It would depend on the size of
the trees, because the dead tree would begin to rot at the
soil surface. And if the tree was big, it would take a
longer time, and smaller trees would fall over in a shorter
period.
But it was these contrasts that I photographed and also
sampled with our methods of cruising, in studies of slash dis
posal to determine the relative amount of timber and size,
that made such an impression on Roy Head ley. Here we were
supposed to cut the forest, clean it up and safeguard it from
further damage, but with all these jackstraw piles of dead
trees, it increased fire hazard in dangerous proportions. In
other words, we weren't achieving the purpose for which these
measures had been taken.
53
Chall: Right, and also you were reducing the opportunity for new
growth; fires were burning out the undergrowth.
WCL: Yes, exactly. That's a very important point. The restocking
timber growing trees had practically stopped. Succeeding
;ires burned out the humus that was lying on the surface of the
soil. And then the ashes of such fires were compacted by the
rains, so the runoff and erosion were increased. Flood stages
down river were increased. So we had evidence here that things
had gone wrong in a big way, and therefore we had to make a new
approach to safeguard the forests from conditions that had des
troyed the forest land and left it in a deplorable condition.
The old forest stands were badly damaged and began to deter
iorate, so the restocking of species was inadequate.
Thus the forest fires in this area were a very critical
problem. Vast areas of natural forest had been burned over.
We made studies of these burns, because we were concerned with
restoring growing stands of timber. We classified the burns
into first and second and third burns. The first burn through
the green forest killed many of the trees, and then in many
cases old snags would catch on fire, and if they were on a
slope they'd burn off and then the stem of the tree would fall
and shoot down like a fiery arrow.
This sort of thing is very difficult to deal with in fight
ing a fire. You might have a fire halfway up a slope and with
these arrow-like snags on fire, the punk or rotted material
would be slowly smoldering. They would shoot right down through
the fire line, spreading fire down the slope. The only thing
to do in a case such as this was to drop down to the bottom of
the slope and establish a new fire line.
These first burns would not entirely burn up all the green
timber, because there were moist places in the soil. Green
timber served as a barrier to fires. Then there would be trees
left in rocky places and they would serve as seed trees. Such
trees that had escaped the first fire would re-seed those por
tions that had been burned over, and the stand would not neces
sarily be totally destroyed. Such areas would be restocked
in a reasonable time.
But if after a time, when some of these trees had rotted
off and fallen to the ground and young growth had grown up
vigorously, then if there was a second fire, all this dry
material became fuel for a very hot fire. And then these hot
forest fires destroyed all the young growth and burned out
the dead and downed material and the litter.
Chall: It was the second fire that was the most dangerous.
54
WCL: This second fire is very destructive and H burns out 1he
humus from the soil, and steep slopes in the soil begin to
creep and roll downhill. Winds come in and whip up ashes. They
are terrible places to be caught in, because the ijshes become
dust.
There were times when enough material had survived these
other two fires to become fuel for a third and still hotter
fire in the area. This only added to the destruction of the
second fire. So the forest was destroyed, leaving only ashes
with brown-reddish oxydized minerals. These were powdered,
puffy sorts of ashes to be taken up and carried by the wind
into dust storms of acrid ash.
Chall: You just lost more and more forest with each successive fire?
WCL: That's right. So slash disposal was the key problem. As you
can see, if we could solve it, then other problems would auto
matically be solved. Jim Gerard was the logging engineer and
operations man of the Forest Service while I was the research
officer. We sought to bring theory and practice together in
the forest, so we worked out a live burning technique.
The accepted practice of the Forest Service was to pile
and burn logging slash, and logging engineers allowed from
fifty cents to a dollar a thousand board feet for the burning
of the slash. The logger didn't have to pay because it was
assumed that he would use that money to dispose of the slash
by this pile and burn method. Many times the handling of fire
in the woods was badly done. One must know what he's doing
when he sets a fire in the forest.
So the great difficulty was that these piles of slash be
came wet from rain or snow and would not burn. So many times
the woodsmen tried using coal oil and torches to start the
fire going, but that oftentimes didn't work.
Then finally they set the fires on the lower slopes, be
cause that was most accessible, and since they were having
difficulty in getting the slash to burn, the woodsmen became
careless and set these fires along the base of slopes. As the
sun came out and the wind rose and dried out the forest, the
fire was burning at the most dangerous location. Because the
fire runs up slope so readily, they were in trouble, because
chances are, they couldn't put out the fires. So again we
weren't accomplishing what we set out to do.
Chall: The whole process was incorrect altogether, wasn't it?
WCL: It certainly was not working. Now the method that Jim and I
agreed on, was to go out into the forest where it was wet—
55
WCL: even snow might be lying on the ground. We prepared dry mate
rial and we set fires going at regular intervals. Then we
would toss onto the fire the pieces of slash, branches, tops
and butt cuts.
The fire itself then dried out this slash material, and it
would burn. We had a crew of men to keep adding wet slash onto
the hot fires. And we thus burned up this hazardous portion of
the slash, but the forest litter in between the piles was not
burned.
Chall: I see. You could control what was still growing.
WCL: And this litter, you see, would increase the intake of rain
and make possible the infiltration of rain into the soil and
prevent erosion.
Chall: You were getting at the key problem. Now did this take more
men to control the proper spacing?
WCL: Yes, some more, but it was effective, and the forest was left
in a safe and satisfactory condition. Later on we devised
methods to locate the hazardous areas, for instance, on both
sides of a trail, where hunters might be travel inq through
the forest, and we'd fire-proof a strip on each side. Also
on roads where trucks and wagons traveled, and then along
streams where fishermen walked up and down — we treated these,
but did not try to treat all the forest. In this way we re
duced the labor costs of slash disposal with better results.
Even in light rains we were able to reduce the hazards of
the logging slash. The wet slash was burned, but the forest
mulch, the forest litter, was not burned and remained to pro
tect the soil, to increase filtration and reduce soil erosion
from the overland flow of unabsorbed storm waters. So suc
cessful were we in this method of disposing of logging slash,
that the state laws on burning slash in Idaho were changed.
Plant Succession
Chall: During this period in Region One, you also made studies on
plant succession and restocking, did you not?
WCL: Yes, I have a paper on plant succession and will place it on
file with you. And then there was the Mi I acre study on re
stocking, which was a breakthrough in methods in surveys of
vegetative types. An adaptation of this method was used in
the forest type survey of California.
56
WCL: This was the method of surveying restocking conditions, what
! call the Mi I acre Restocking Survey. For instance, as the
result of these fires that burned the logged over areas, the
Forest Service was trying to bring pressure to bejr on the
private lumbermen to increase the intensity of fire protection.
They charged so much per acre for fire protection. For instance,
one, two, or three hour controls, meant that any portion of the
area could be visited by a man ready to fight fires within one,
two or three hours. In other words, we set up controls so that
we could be sure that fires wouldn't get away and burn out of
control. At least, that was our hope.
Now, we had many of the timbermen deny that they hod ruined
the forests, saying that they had only obeyed the law. I said,
"Let's determine how much of this area j_s_ restocked." At first
we used a chain — sixty-six feet long and~~brie-tenth of the
chain wide, that was what we called a strip traverse for sur
veying. Then for each of these strips, we'd count the seed
lings of trees that came back from seed showered from seed
trees.
At that time, this was the general and accepted method of
what we call ecological studies. To determine the vegetation,
what the mixture was, and how many different species, one
sampled an area.
I developed another way of estimating the spacing between
seedlings that would give the number of seedlings in a plot by
area. We wouldn't count them, but we'd estimate the total
number of seedlings in a strip a chain long and a tenth of a
chain wide — 66 x 6.6 feet. Then I realized that in one chain
various conditions would be represented. A spot on one end
might have thousands of cedar seedlings, so many more than
could possibly grow into trees. They'd choke themselves out.
At another place there would be no seedlings at all.
"Our method is all wrong," I said to Dean Miller of the
Idaho Forest School, who represented the state of Idaho in our
cooperative study of the U.S. Forest Service with state for
estry departments. I couldn't sleep that night until I had
worked out this scheme of using a mi I acre — a mi I acre is a
thousandth of an acre — as a unit of restocking instead of a
number of seedlings.
I said, "Now a I I we need to know is: Is this or that
mi lacre stocked or not?" Because obviously if we had a hun
dred seedlings growing on one mi lacre, all could not possibly
grow into forest trees.
Chall: But some would, is that it? Did you try to determine why one
section was we I I stocked and another one barren? Or were you
57
Chal I : concerned only with the fact that part of it had some seedlings
on it?
WCL: When we began to study the area, we made observations of the
aspect — of soils, of the slopes, whether facing north, south,
east or west — and we recorded this by milacres. ' would record
the surface conditions by milacres, whether there was forest
mulch, bare surface, erosion pavement or stony ground. That
way, we were able to determine and record conditions favorable
or unfavorable for restocking.
Forestry Pioneers
Chal I: Did you know Raphael Zon? Can you tell me something about him?
WCL: Oh yes, I knew him very well and thought highly of him. In
fact, as a young forester I wanted to follow in his footsteps.
Chall: And Graves or Schenck?
WCL: Oh yes. I met Schenck; he was in Germany not far from the
center of our field studies at Essen Darmstadt. But Henry
Solon Graves I knew very well. I had not met him personally
until 1927. I'd been to China and had come back, and ! took
part in the annual meeting of the American Society of Foresters
in San Francisco.
When I met Solon Graves there, I said, "I'm very delighted
to meet you, Dean Graves. Do you remember the Gasthoff zum
Engel in Sal Munster?"
"Oh yes, yes, yes," he said. "That's where we used to
stay."
And I said, "Do you remember that in the Gasthoff there
is a book, and in that little book there is a list of the names
of all the foresters who had drunk an unusual amount of beer at
one sitting?"
He didn't answer.
And I said, "Did you know that your nane Is in that
book?" [laughter]
This was the Gasthoff where we stayed while studying under
58
WCL: Herr Forstmeister Hebel. We enjoyed it very much. You know,
actually there was a very choice group of minds and people
that took part in the early developments of forestry.
Chal I : You were in on the birth of it, and that's what made it so
exciting.
WCL: Yes.
V CHINA, 1922-1927
CWritten questions and answers]
Chall: Why did you leave the Forest Service when all was so rosy
for you?
WCL: Well, it may sound foolish, but it was a young woman that
caused my decision to leave.
Chall: Yes, I understand you had an interesting romance and that it
led to your work in China. How did this come about?
WCL: It was in Arizona that this most far-reaching influence which
changed the course of my life work took place. I met a girl
named Inez May Marks, whom much leter I married. We had met
in the little white church in Wilcox, Arizona, when I was home
from the University of Arizona, waiting for the time to enter
Oxford University. She was spending a few months with her
parents.
Her father had been a Methodist minister and was in
Arizona for his health. Inez and I met a few timos on social
occasions and at church. Once or twice I spent Sunday after
church on their ranch, four miles out in Sulphur Springs Val
ley. Years later, she complained that I never even held her
hand .
Then Inez returned to Pasadena and attended the University
of Southern California at Los Angeles, and I went to Oxford.
We kept the world between us for eleven years. She got her
Bachelor's and Master's degrees from USC, and then in 1916
went out to Szechuan Province, China, on the border of Tibet,
where for five years, she was an early version of a Peace
Corps worker, under the Methodist Church. She opened and
organized seventeen primary schools in cities surrounding
Chengtu, the capitol of Szechuan Province. She was respon
sible for twenty-six teachers and more than six hundred little
Chinese girls in their schools.
Inez also pioneered in persuading parents to allow the un
binding of their daughters' feet. They resisted this new move
ment because only slave girls had natural feet at that time,
and they feared their daughters would not find suitable hus
bands unless their feet were bound according to time-honored
custom.
^
Letters from Inez told of fascinating and challenging
59
60
WCL: experiences and courageous contacts now and then with bandits
of Szechuan during this tumultuous warlord period. Being of
pioneer urges myself, I grew to have much interest in her
experiences and achievements.
Eleven years after our meeting in Arizona, writing off and
on — mostly off — we found ourselves for the first time, back In
the United States at the same time. I had an urge to see her
again after all these intervening years during which we both
had changed much, so I wrote and made arrangements to visit
her in Pasadena for the Rose Parade and football game of New
Year's Day, 1922.
After forty-eight hours, we took the tram up Mount Lowe and
walked out to Inspiration Point, for that was in pre-smog days.
I proposed to Inez and she accepted me, but immediately said,
"I hope we can go back to China together for China needs you
more than does our Forest Service. Others will take your place
here, but in China there is no one to do the big job required
on famine prevention but you."
We returned home and shocked Inez1 parents by announcing
we were engaged. Inez tried to calm them by saying she knew
our marriage was made in heaven. Her father replied, "It must
have been made in heaven for there was not time to have made
it on earth."
Lowdermi I k's Marriage and Deci si on to_ cjo t_£ Ch i na
WCL: I was very dubious about going to China, because as Research
Officer for Region One, I had been advancing rapidly, but my
fiancee was optimistic and never doubted I would go. She
urged me to send my qualifications to the new Famine Prevention
Project, carried on by the Union University of Nanking, China,
which had headquarters in New York. It had received an allot
ment of two million dollars left over from the great famines
of 1920-1921.
Rains had been early and crops good so the money raised
in the States had not been needed. Since these funds could
not now be returned to donors, the plan was to have experts go
out to China to improve Chinese agriculture, such as improve
ment of cotton seed, irradication of wheat rust, and produc
tion of disease-free seeds for distribution to Chinese farmers.
Other experts had developed disease-free silk worm eggs so that
ACCEPTANCE OF RC!1IQN*TION.
s. 7/1 11 ^1 /
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, /
OFFICE OF THE APPOINTMENT CLERK. / *£•'/• ^
WASHINGTON, O. C. fy L?
> * '•
.-ivr'-at 31.192;:.
L'r. vulter C. Lc:vdernilk,
Forest Service.
Sir:
You are hereby notified that your resignation from the posi
tion of j'oreyli ",::iininert- - - - --
at a salary of $ 2500 per -nm.rj- - On the en s
roll of the FOREST SERVICE, has been accepted to take effect at
the termination of Av.p.st i5
By direction of the Secretary of Agriculture:
Respectfully,
^fi'ioer
60a
61
WCL: silk worms would not die just as they were supposed to spin
si Ik.
Men for all these agricultural projects had been secured,
but Mr. John Reisner, Dean of the Nanking Agricultural and
Forestry School, had been unable to find a trained and exper
ienced forester who was willing to go out on the limited salary
of a professor at the Union University. These famine funds,
you see, were strictly for the benefit of Chinese farmers and
not for enrichment of foreign experts.
Immediately word came back from New York, urging me to
leave at once for China as the other experts had already been
there one year. I did not know just what I was to do as a
forester about preventing famines and floods, but I was to
begin at once my year of language study.
We were married August 15, and after a brief honeymoon at
Santa Barbara, we sailed for China the first of September, 1922.
Chall: So that is why you left the U.S. Forest Service and went to
China. How did you find out what you wanted to do there?
Developing the Theory of_ Man-Made Erosion
WCL: It was from my first expedition into interior China, in 1923,
after my year of language study, that the course of my life
work was changed from forestry to that of land and water con
servation. This ultimately included the relation of peoples
to their lands and has led to many ramifications since then.
On this first expedition, the full and fateful significance
of soil erosion and its consequences was burned into my con
sciousness.
The Yel low River and Silt
I had wanted to see the Yellow River and examine the site where
this river, in 1852, broke from its enormous system of inner
and outer dikes and changed its course four hundred miles to
the north, to empty into the Gulf of Chihli, instead of the
Yellow Sea. This flood, and others like it through the cen
turies, snuffed out millions of lives.
62
WCL: As we traveled across the flat plains of Honan Province,
we saw a great flat-topped ridge, reaching from horizon to hori
zon. This was the outer dike. We climbed this forty to fifty
foot ridge and looked out on another vast plain some ten feet
lower than crests of the dike. About seven miles further on
rose another flat-topped ridge which we climbed. This was the
inner dike. Before us lay the Yellow River, "China's Sorrow,"
laden with silt eroded from inland China's farm fields. Now
the river was flowing quietly, with the low gradient of one
foot per mile on the delta plain, and silently dropping its
burden of silt.
Here in a channel fully forty or fifty feet above the sur
face of the plain, this gigantic river had been lifted up off
the plain over the entire four-hundred-mile course across its
delta and had been held in this uplifted channel by hand labor
of millions of men — without machines, or engines, without steel
or construction timber, and without stone. These millions of
farmers, with bare hands, carrying poles with little baskets at
each end, had built here through thousands of years, a stupen
dous monument to human cooperation and the will to survive.
Since the days of Ta-Yu, nearly four thousand years ago, the
battle with floods with this tremendous river have been lost and
won, time and again. Any lack of vigilance would cause a break
in the dike and Herculean cooperative work would be required
to put the river back again into its channel.
As I stood there with a cold November wind tugging at my
trench coat, I meditated on what these Chinese farmers had
endured and would continue to do to survive, toiling on by the
millions in a situation that was hopeless. For there was no
end to the demand of the river for higher and higher dikes. As
it annually dropped its burden of silt, it lessened the capacity
of the channel between dikes to carry flood waters.
Then suddenly jjf_ dawned upon me_ that silt was the villain!
Si It was the great enemy causing this endless, hopeless struggle!
Silt had defeated the courageous to i I i ng farmers, val iant as_
they were!
I then and there determined to see from whence came all this
silt. Where was all this excessive erosion taking place? The
famine prevention funds gave me ample financing to make expedi
tions with my Chinese colleagues and students.
Chal I : This must have been an exciting kind of expedition.
WCL: Yes. We prepared to make a series of carefully planned agri
cultural explorations. On this first trip we were fortunate
to have along with us Mr. 0. J. Todd, an engineer who later, in
63
WCL: 1935, put the Yellow River back in its channel. We made a
two-thousand-mile survey up into the province of Shensi, west
of the Yellow River, into the great loess deposits of wind-laid
soils of northwest China. It was here in these fertile soils
that the Cradle of Chinese Civilization developed, and here
China had her Golden Age.
During the ice age, there was insufficient moisture to
build up an ice sheet. Instead, this dry region developed
into a great dust bowl, and soils from the desert of Gob!
blew in to form these fertile but highly erodable lands. It
is through these deep loess deposits that the Yellow River
drains and picks up its burden of silt.
Chall: Did you make any interesting discoveries on this expedition?
Temple Forests Thrive Amid Eroded Land
WCL: When I saw the headwaters of some of the tributaries of the
Yellow River, I made a surprising find. The great American
geographer, Ellsworth Huntington, and a great German geologist,
Ferdinand von Richthofen, had ascribed the decline of north
west China to an adverse change of climate. There were evi
dences enough that there had been periods of greater prosperity
and more populous cities.
Now, scant numbers of people living behind city walls
within great empty spaces, and large formerly used irrigation
works now filled with silt, out of commission and useless,
indicated a change from former prosperity to decadence. But
around some Buddhist temples, I was astonished to find temple
forests which priests had preserved for places of meditation,
and managed for growing timber for repairs.
Being a forester as well as a soilsman, 1 was pretty much
excited. I studied these forests carefully and found that
there was no erosion of soil within them, that the ground was
covered with forest litter and the trees were reproducing
themselves naturally, in response to the climate and rainfall
of the day. Outside the country was cut with enormous gullies,
some of them up to five hundred feet deep. I measured one up
to six hundred feet deep.
Then I said that before we accept the conclusion that the
decline and semi-depopulation of northwest China is due to an
adverse change of climate, let us discover how far this ero
sion of the land has brought on such a decline. It seemed
apparent enough to me that erosion alone was sufficient to
64
WCL: account for the decline of a civilization and that we didn't
need to rely on a theory of change of climate. Because of my
scientific training, I determined to make a series of experi
mental studies to measure the rainfall and runoff to see what
had happened in various watersheds of the region.
Sett i ng up Experiments to_ Find out the Facts
Chall: Will you be more explicit concerning these first experimental
studies?
WCL: My first summer's work during the rainy season was a great
disappointment. The streams ran so full of soil and debris
and boulders that at my cross sections of the stream, I was
unable to measure the flow accurately. Then I hit upon the
idea of going back where the raindrops strike the ground and
set up what we called runoff plots. This was one of the first
times such tests had ever been made.
In 1925, we set up three installations about one hundred
miles apart. I did some of the hardest work I ever did in my
life, but nonetheless some of the most fascinating. We were
able to get quantitative measurements on runoff and erosion
from comparative plots within and outside these temple forests.
Even in heavy rains in the same area and with the same gradient,
the water that filtered through the forest litter ran off
through the plots only slightly murky, whereas it flowed off
the denuded plots as liquid mud.
It was now that I realized with certainty that here was the
monster enemy that had brought about a change in China's north
west. It was not an adverse change in climate as Ellsworth
Huntington and Ferdinand von Richthofen had suggested. Erosion,
because it brought about lesser carrying capacity of the land,
had been equally capable of undermining and destroying a civili
zation and reducing its population.
Lowdermi I k set J_n_ Pi rection of_ his Life's Work
Chall: So this momentous discovery changed your direction from
65
Chall: forestry to concern for erosion and its effects on peoples
and civil izations?
WCL: Yes, a radical change came over me. Heretofore, I had worked
hard at whatever work I undertook, but I never felt fully
satisfied. On each birthday I would say, "Here I am, X years
old and have not accomplished a darned thing yet." But these
revealing studies proved to me the importance of the relation
of peoples to their lands in the rise and fall of civiliza
tions.
It was here that I coined the now much used expression,
"Man-made Deserts." I knew what had happened to China. Now I
wondered if this same enemy, erosion, had been responsible for
creating man-made deserts in North Africa and the Middle East,
in old Roman lands that formerly were flourishing but were now
sterile and rocky, for I had seen pictures and read about the
desert conditions of formerly prosperous and populous lands
there. Now there was no question as to my life work. I knew
I was on the right track for me.
Report! ng the Resu Its of Experimentation
Chall: Did you immediately write up these discoveries?
WCL: Yes, a fine opportunity presented itself. I was asked to
represent the United States Forest Service at the Third Pan
Pacific Science Congress in Tokyo, Japan, in the fall of 1926.
The Japanese made a great deal of this meeting, which brought
together representatives and scientists from most countries
bordering the Pacific Ocean. It was to be their coming-out
party, to show that Japanese scientists had made remarkable
advances on their own and were not simply copyists as had been
thought.
I chose this opportunity to give my first report on my
experiments in China to an international body of scientists.
It was entitled "Factors Effecting Storm Runoff and Soil
Erosion." My findings aroused considerable interest and much
attention was given the paper, for as far as I know, this was
the first time that anyone had ever set out to measure what
happens to rain when it falls on soils which are covered and
on soils which are bare of vegetation.
Chall: Your headquarters were at the Union University of Nanking,
Northwest China - Hwai River Basin. Erosion on a tremendous scale in highly erodable loess soil.
Farmers have terraced gullies in order to grow food.
66
ChaM: China. Did you do any teaching there?
WCL: Of course, my first duty was to make regional studies, to
formulate my hypotheses, and to work out and develop practical
and workable programs. But when not on expeditions, I taught
some courses in forestry and agricultural geology during school
terms, and taught physical education to young college students.
This was a new thing for college students in China at that
time, for it had been the custom for scholars never to exert
themselves physically and above all, to do no manual work.
(They even hired a coolie in those days to carry their hymn
books to church for them.) This was one reason why I in
sisted that we go out into the fields with farmers and work
along with them to give dignity to the farmer in this most
important of all professions, that of growing food for all
the people.
Chall: Where did you get your equipment for your experiments?
WCL: China had few if any scientific instruments. It was necessary
for me to design and have Chinese tinsmiths in Nanking use
what materials were available to make my tipping buckets.
These devices measured rainfall and the amounts of erosion in
the runoff. This had to be all original work for it had never
been done anywhere before, as far as I know. I credit my
pioneer father's example and inventive ability as helpful to
me in China when there was no equipment I could buy for my
experimental studies.
Chall: Did you speak English or Chinese on your expeditions?
WCL: I had had a full year of study at the famous University of
Nanking Language School and I could speak Mandarin, the main
dialect of China, and make my simple wants known anywhere north
of the Yangtse and from the coast to Tibet. But fortunately,
all my Chinese staff spoke English quite well and this was
helpful for us all in our scientific discussions.
Hwai River
Chall: I see that you made a very extensive study of the Hwai River
during your famine prevention assignment.
WCL: Yes, this report on the Hwai River study was given to William
E. Souter, General Secretary of the Chinese Foreign Famine
Relief Commission in Shanghai, and to John R. Reir,ner, Dean of
the University of Nanking School of Agriculture and Forestry.
67
WCL: I submitted this on March 4, 1927, just three weeks before the
Nanking Incident when all our constructive works ceased and we
were ordered out of China. I entitled this report "Cover and
Erosion Survey of the Hwai River Basin."
This Hwai River report contains the results of a survey of
vegetative cover and erosion, chiefly of the mountainous area
that covers some 330 miles in the Hwai catchment basin to the
south of the main river. This region contributes large volumes
of torrential runoff into the Hwai floods. Erosion in these
lands generated movements of sand that followed down the drain
ages, filling the channels of the Hwai River and its tribu
taries so that they became actually rivers of sand.
This voluminous report contains some 160 typewritten pages,
besides scores of pages of illustrative pictures, maps and
charts. At the end is an appendix of Famine and Flood Records,
which cover a period of a thousand years and more. The Yellow
River first burst its banks or dikes in the fourteenth century
and overflowed into the Hwai, but the floods in the Hwai did
not become very serious until the sixteenth century.
These excessive flood ings began with the rapid increase
in population, when pressure for food-growing lands pushed
cultivation up the slopes of hills and mountains. There were
no measures for erosion control on these soils suddenly bared
of vegetative cover of trees, shrubs and grasses. This sui
cidal agriculture on sloping lands deprived farmers of their
fertile topsoils and caused enormous loss of life on the
flooded plains toward the sea as the waters dropped their
burden of si I ts.
Other Studies Reported
Chall: Was this Hwai River survey the most important you undertook?
WCL: I would not say so. I made a three-year study and survey of
erosion and floods on the Fen Ho in Shansi Province. This is
what I reported to the Third Pan Pacific Science Congress in
Tokyo in 1926. Then I made a survey and wrote "A History of
Wu Tai Shan in Shansi Province," which was published in the
proceedings in the Royal Asiatic Society of London, 1938.
Also I made a vegetation and erosion survey in Anwhei Province,
and also a survey near Nanking of "Purple Mountain and its
Reforestation . "
One two and one-half month experiment I shall never forget
was in the summer of 1925 at Tsin Tao, northeast China on the
68
WCL: coast. I set up instruments to measure runoff and erosion on
the slopes of protected forests that the Germans had reforested
when Tsin Tao was a German colony. A corresponding set of
plots I put on adjoining denuded lands in this region where
rains are proverbially scarce. Immediately the heavens coop
erated by pouring down the average rainfall of twelve inches in
thirty hours. Rain continued to fall off and on most of the
summer. I was thrilled, for my instruments worked perfectly,
and the water ran only murky as it flowed through the litter-
covered soils in the forested plots, and poured off as liquid
mud from the denuded plots.
The poor people of Tsin Tao were drowned out. Rumor
spread that the excess rain was due to this man's prayers for
erosion in action. An editorial in the local city newspaper
in English urged this erosion expert to desist his prayers for
rain and allow the community to dry out.
Chal I : Did you use special methods of study for all areas?
WCL: Yes, my method of study was to make regional explorations and
surveys. I wanted to discover major factors in the landscapes
and to set up experimental studies of stream-flow, runoff and
erosion, and to evaluate the significant processes involved.
We made use of the historical records of the "Gazetteers," or
county records, which often date back a thousand years or more.
Then we compared the descriptions of China in the past with
present conditions as we found them.
It was a great disappointment when all these studies and
planned surveys for the future were suddenly terminated by the
first Communist drive which forced all of us to leave this
part of China. All these surveys were preliminary to programs
of works that could have been adapted to help Chinese farmers
control erosion to save their lands and grow more food.
Fifteen years later, on my second trip to China in 1942,
I carried out these programs in some areas of northwest China,
to demonstrate to farmers how to save their lands and increase
production. I will report on this when telling of the second
trip to Chi na.
Theory on Fami ne
Chal I: After five years on the Famine Prevention Project, what were
in
69
Chall: your conclusions regarding famines?
WCL: It has been forty-five years since I began studying famines.
I have come to certain conclusions regarding starving peoples.
Today again, we must face up to the hideous spectre of famine.
Two-thirds of the peoples of the world are undernourished now,
and hundreds of millions go to bed hungry every night. In this
world-wide population explosion, 180,000 new hungry mouths ar
rive daily on this planet, or something over sixty-five million
every year. Of these, one million each month arrive in India
alone, as reported by F.A.O. Demographers tell us that the
present population of some three and one-half billion will
become seven billion souls by the end of the century.
These seven billion are not mere statistics, but are in
dividual human beings who will be our children's children and
must have food, clothing, housing, jobs, and services of all
ki nds.
In spite of our embarrassing surpluses, which we had shipped
millions of tons around the world to hungry peoples, the food
situation for them is getting worse rather than better. Starva
tion on a gigantic scale looms on the horizon that will make the
1920-1921 Chinese famine, when twenty million died of hunger,
seem peanuts in comparison.
Chall: I understand the Food and Agriculture Organization of the
United Nations is taking steps to improve this food situation?
WCL: Yes, with this prospect of famines in the offing, the F.A.O.
has launched a campaign cal led "Freedom From Hunger," and seeks
to enlist all members of the UN to take part. The emphasis is
laid on self-help in producing a nation's own food supply. But
so far, the response is very disappointing.
Chall: Dr. Lowdermilk, what happens in time of famines?
WCL: In my opinion, there is no more horrible way to die than by
starvation. Food riots are terrifying. Starving people will
not keep the peace, neither will they stay within their own
borders, neither will they keep their treaties. A starving
farmer will eat his seed grain, even though he knows that it
is disastrous for his future to do so. Parents will sell their
children for a little food for themselves and the hope that the
child may be kept alive by someone else. The entire fabric of
society falls apart. The law of the jungle rules as people
fight for food. But in the latter stages of starvation, people
become tragically silent, and almost motionless as they wait
out the long days and nights of slow death.
Chall: This must have been most difficult for you, with vour western
70
Chall: attitude of the infinite value of the individual.
WCL: Yes, it was appalling to me to see people in China in this
slow dying condition and be able to do little or nothing to
help them. The Chinese said to me often, "Why are you so con
cerned? When one dies there will be one less mouth to feed.
Don't you know that this is heaven's way of reducing popula
tion so that there will be more food for the ones that are left?"
Prospects for the Future
Chall: Do you feel that it is possible for our earth to feed, with a
good standard of living, all the present populations?
WCL: For years I have been saying that civilization is running a
race with famine, and the outcome is very much in doubt. The
doubt is due, not so much to shortages in resources of the good
earth, plundered as are some, and unused as are others, but to
the lag in the take-up of modern ways of farming. In my opinion,
our planet could feed, on a higher standard than that of today,
twice the present population if all earth's resources were fully
developed and used with scientific conservation methods.
Chall: You especially studied famines in China. How about your studies
in Africa?
WCL: I fear that in the not-too-distant future, Africa also will
suffer severe starvation. I found some countries doubling
their numbers in twenty-five years or less, yet still the far
mers largely practiced an iron age agriculture, using primi
tive tools, and using fire and shifting cultivation which
destroys the soils for sustained use. They could not grow
foodstuffs enough to keep pace with these explosive rates of
increase in population.
In my reports on African studies later on, I shall discuss
at some length just why it is that farmers in these less devel
oped nations have this lag in the take-up of modern methods of
growing food.
Chall: Do the farmers recognize their critical situation?
WCL: No, except perhaps a few. When I spoke to a conference of
African ministers, explaining why their fields produce less
and less and the farmers were falling behind in growing
71
WCL: foodstuffs, one minister rose and said, "Now we know why hunger
already done catch us."
Chal 1 : Would birth control give us time in this race with famine?
WCL: Some, of course, but there are difficulties in making it ac
ceptable. I know of one International Chinese-American Commis
sion some years ago in China, where the chairman managed to get
both Chinese and American members of the mission fo agree to a
watered-down resolution that indirectly advocated some type of
birth control. But a Chinese told me afterward that the reaction
of the Chinese members was, "Ah, America fears our numbers."
At another time during an International Farmers' Convention
in Israel in 1959, a resolution calling for some measure for
limitation of population was voted down. Representatives of
African states said they wanted nothing to do with such a re
solution. They said, "This is a white man's trick to keep down
the numbers of black peoples." They said, "On the contrary,
the African states want more people to give them more power in
the councils of the United Nations."
This indicates the delicate situation and difficulties in
dealing with this issue of birth control across international
borders.
But despite all our technical assistance and the sharing
of a maximum of our depleted surplus foods, hungry nations will
remain hungry unless they themselves adjust their numbers and
at the same time increase production of their own food supplies.
Chall: You made a report on famines in China, did you not?
WCL: Yes, in my report on the Hwai River, I have a heartbreaking
record of more than twenty principle famines which we found
detailed in county Gazetteers dating from 966 A.D. Elsewhere
I have a record of some famines in droughts in centuries B.C.
In my Hwai records, we noted that deaths from starvation at
various periods took from fifty percent to ninety percent of
the population. These records of famines tell of people eat
ing others who had died, of relatives eating members of the
family, and how people ate clay to have something inside them.
A famine is a ghastly curse on humanity.
72
Studies of Typhoons and Floods
WCL: Another interesting study during this period was one on typhoons
and floods that I was making with the Catholic Sicawey Observa
tory near Shanghai. Father Froc and Father Gherzi collaborated
with me especially in recording the movement of typhoons. I
had money .in my famine prevention fund with which to buy instru
ments, and Father Gherzi had churches and priests at various
locations in the hinterland. These priests were very meticu
lous in reading the instruments and keeping accurate records of
rainfall, and flood stages, temperature and humidity. We sent
all this recorded information to the Chinese government; I gave
a copy to the Sicawey Observatory and kept another in my files.
We were pioneers in this type of scientific research in China.
I wanted to study floods as the result of the typhoons
that came from the western Pacific and swept inland into China.
We found we could plot floods by the way these typhoons in
vaded and advanced across the land and up the drainages of
rivers.
While typhoons were sometimes disastrous, especially near
the coast, they were also necessary and beneficial to carry
quantities of water into the interior to drop as heavy rains.
If they failed to reach far enough inland, then drought condi
tions would ensue, and the rivers would be too low to provide
enough water further down for irrigation.
Chall: Were these Catholic Fathers scientists and eager to take part
in this research project?
WCL: Yes, these Jesuit priests were keen and fully grasped what we
were attempting to find out. We were all especially inter
ested in my theory which I called epicycles. When typhoons
blow inland and drop heavy rains, of course part of them rush
back rapidly toward the sea.
But there also begins local evaporation on the land where
these rains fell. As this evaporation rises, the moisture is
caught in the upper current of winds still blowing inland. This
evaporated moisture then becomes incorporated into the original
moisture in the typhoon winds and enables more moisture to be
blown still further into the interior, to fall as rain.
Chall: So this phenomena was what you called epicycles?
WCL: Yes, I aroused quite a lot of interest among scientific groups
in China. My hypothesis was that if forests were cut and lands
grazed or cultivated, then, unless the lands were prepared by
73
WCL: conservation measures to hold the rains that fell, there would
be considerable runoff and water would be sent back in floods
toward the sea. This would prevent the evaporation previously
described and less moisture would rise into the upper air to
join the winds blowing inland, thus reducing the inland sweep
of rains on the land.
The Nanki ng I nc! dent
Chall: The Nanking Incident seems to have brought about a complete
change in your life plans.
WCL: Yes, completely so. The tragic and historic event that took
place on March 24, 1927, in the great old walled city of
Nanking, China, also brought about a change in the lives of
mi I I ions of people.
For me, it meant giving up all my work and plans for China,
It meant losing all our possessions and returning penniless
to the United States to find a new job. The only bright spot
for me was that I was able to help save the lives of the 120
Americans within the city around the large American Union
Uni vers i ty .
For Chiang Kai-shek, it brought about a complete reversal
from friendliness to Russia and Communism, to the bitter
hatred toward Russia and Communism, against whose forces he
has been at war ever since.
Immediately after leaving China, early in April, 1927,
I wrote up a report on my activities during this terrible
day and I will give it to you.
I wrote this report just after our return from China with
the thought of publication, but I never had it published. My
original informal report on which this is based was sent to
New York to the Famine Prevention Committee who had employed
me through the Union University of Nanking.
74
THEY INTENDED US TO DIE AT 3:30 P.M.
At eight o'clock, on the morning of March 24, 1927, President
A. J. Bowen, Vice-President J. E. Williams and I were on the campus of
the American Union University of Nanking, China, when a frightened Chinese
ran toward us panting, "Soldiers are looting Dr. Horton Daniel's home.
They threaten to kill."
We supposed these looters were retreating northern soldiers fleeing
from the victorious new revolutionary army sweeping northward from Can
ton. We told them the southern army had entered the south gate and they
had better run to the opposite city gate. We were totally unprepared
for their reaction to our warning.
They fired their rifles into upstairs windows and yelled, "Da wei
guay ren! Da Yang guey dza!" ("Kill the foreigners, kill the foreign
devils. l?)
A child in a neighboring house opened a veranda door and immediately
a soldier wheeled and fired his rifle but missed.
This was our first realization that Nationalist soldiers were anti-
foreign. They cocked their rifles, roughly ordered the three of us to
hold up our hands and began to rob us. While one soldier prodded us
with his bayonet, another stripped us.
As one soldier reached for Dr. William's watch, the heavy gold
chain caught in his vest. He held on to the watch, saying, "Please,
I'll give you anything, but don't take this last gift from my mother."
A shot rang out and Dr. Williams crumpled at my feet where they
continued to rob him as he lay dead.
As they robbed me, I kept saying in Chinese, "Why did you kill
him, why?"
They tore off my wedding ring, watch, billfold, glasses were
smashed on the ground, fountain pen taken and my overcoat and sweater
yanked off. One swaggering little soldier with finger on the trigger
started to shoot me. I expected to fall beside my good friend, Dr.
Williams.
Just then his corporal said, "Don't shoot him yet!1' They then
fired into the air and walked away with their loot.
Soon Chinese professors and students learned of this tragedy and
carried Dr. Williams' body to his house and hurried me and others to
join the group of Americans which our Chinese colleagues began to as
semble in Bailie Hall.
75
Significantly they said, "This building will not burn."
Prior to this day of infamy, the ancient walled city of Nanking,
China, was a delightful and stimulating international community with
cordial relations between Chinese and some four hundred Americans and
two hundred British.
Despite disturbing rumors, we were totally unprepared for this
brutal anti-foreign attack by Russian-trained vanguards which had in
filtrated the Chinese Nationalist army, driving northward.
Communist infiltration into China had followed refusals by England
and the United States to make a loan to Sun Yat-sen's new revolutionary
government. Whereupon, Russia offered money as a gift and in addition,
agreed to equip and to train special units for the army on condition
that the Russian, Borodin, have a free hand in Communist propaganda in
China. When Suii Yat-sen died, Chiang Kai-shek became his successor.
Cities fell by propaganda, rather than by battle. Shanghai fell
with little shooting. Nanking was the next objective.
Our fear was that the 200,000 retreating, undisciplined northern
troops from Shantung, under the ferocious war-lord Chang Chung Chang,
might be unable to cross the Yangtse, and trap us in the city walls in
a siege, or loot and burn the city.
Previously I had been appointed contact man with the American
Consul and the U.S. destroyers on the Yangtse, to represent our large
community around the American University and to evacuate nationals
should an emergency arise.
For the most part, these Americans were educators, training
Chinese in many fields required to modernize an old nation. I was one
of a group working on a Famine Prevention Program; others were members
of the Medical Schools and Hospitals. Most were teaching in various
branches of this great American University or in the complex of auxil
iary institutions, including religious schools and churches.
I appointed a leader for each section within our part of the city,
to maintain contact day and night.
On March 21, we heard cannonading to the southwest. We took steps
to evacuate women and children to save them from possible consequences
of an attack upon the city. Early next day, we put 177i)of our refugees
quietly aboard the U. S. destroyers "Noa" and "Preston."
However, there still remained some 120 Americans who were either
unable to travel because of illness or refused to leave their posts.
Over her strenuous protests, I saw my wife and our two-year-old son
placed with others in a small compartment directly under the big gun
on the "Noa.'' I little dreamed of their subsequent ordeal under fire.
76
March 23, the frantic retreat began. From our high "Drum Tower"
which overlooked the campus and converging streets, I watched northern
army officers in over-loaded autos, carriages and rickshaws, force their
way through masses of gray-clad foot soldiers, in a dash to reach and
cross the Yangtse with its limited boats, before these retreating hordes
arrived.
With Dr. Williams' murder and mounting harrassments, we realized
that it was the victorious southern soldiers who were fanatically anti-
foreign. I sent trusted Chinese with notes to each of my section leaders,
urging them to have all Americans in their groups disguise themselves and
make their way inconspicuously to Bailie Hall in all haste.
I phoned the United States Consul, J. K. Davis, down in the busi
ness section near the port at Hsia Kwan, that Dr. Williams had been killed
in cold blood at my side and that I had barely escaped with my life. He
told me to keep in touch with him but the phone went dead.
Later, we learned that at that time, soldiers were looting the
Consulate and threatening the lives of all taking refuge there. The
group fled to Socony Hill, whence they could signal the U.S. destroyers
on the Yangtse.
But our contacts with American authorities were broken. We were
trapped deep within the city, surrounded by hostile and anti-foreign
"mobs' of soldiers, determined to rob, humiliate and massacre us.
It was a motley array of Americans, in all sorts of disguises — as
Chinese laborers, farmers, or men dressed as Chinese women—who were
straggling into the top floor of Bailie Hall. Each told a chilling
story of brutality and narrow escape.
On the back of a map, which I still have in my possession, 1 had
each sign, and checked them off as they were brought in by friendly
Chinese who were heart-broken at this shameful treatment of their Ameri
can friends.
Each escape was unique. Dr. C. S. Trimmer, in the University Hos
pital, saw himself cut off by milling mobs. He played upon Chinese
superstitious fear of madmen — grabbed a bottle of mercurochrome, and
smeared the vivid red liquid over his blonde hair, his face and arms.
Then yelling and wildly waving his arms like a crazy man, he dashed
through the startled mob and raced to Bailie Hall.
Some Americans were caught and severely manhandled, as were Pro
fessor Harry demons, Dr. P. F. Price and Dr. W. E. Macklin. It was
the Chinese custom to make criminals kneel for execution by beheading,
and soldiers with beheading knives tried to force saintly Dr. Price to
kneel to be killed.
He steadfastly refused, saying, "I am not a criminal; I will not
77
kneel to be killed!"
His unusual command of the Chinese language enabled him to hold off
his captors until friendly Chinese came and ransomed him for six hundred
Chinese dollars.
Devoted Chinese also finally ransomed beloved Dr. Macklin in his
famous hospital after a harrowing experience.
Some soldiers dragged American women in the hospital from their beds
and robbed them. Local Chinese rescued them but some others were raped
in their homes.
Professor Taylor was at home when soldiers looted his house and tied
a rope around his neck. He choked as they dragged him outside to kill
him. With a sudden superhuman effort, he broke loose and made a wild run
to the campus.
Soldiers pinned some of us against walls and prodded us with bayo
nets as they increased their demands for more money and valuables.
At the Claude Thompson home, soldiers started to shoot the grand
mother because her wedding ring was stuck behind enlarged joints. Her
daughter flung herself in front of her mother, with an impassioned
promise to file off the ring and produce more money. This saved them
both temporarily.
But when a ring on the finger of Dr. Smith of the business commun
ity could not be pulled off, the soldier cut off his finger.
Chinese friends in Nanking were magnificent in risking their lives
to save ours. They poured out their cash and treasures to bribe sol
diers to release Americans they were tormenting. They provided all of
us in Bailie Hall with blankets and warm clothing. They brought us hot
food. All the while, Communist soldiers derided them as "running dogs"
of foreigners.
Borodin had ordered his Russian trained units to "Kill and destroy
all foreign life and property in Nanking." When General Chiang Kai-shek,
head of the revolutionary army, learned of this, he issued orders to the
advancing army, "Protect all foreign life and property in Nanking." This
conflict of orders explained why some soldiers rescued and protected,
while others were intent on murder, as in the rescue of Professor Jones
and others.
From the top floor of Bailie Hall, we watched American buildings
burn, and our homes looted, first by soldiers for valuables and then by
civilian mobs whom they ordered to complete the job.
Meantime some ninety Americans had, by devious means, reached
Bailie Hall. Among them was Pearl Buck, author of "The Good Earth,"
78
and her family, so dearly beloved by the Chinese. They had been hidden
and protected in the hut of a Chinese family that Pearl had befriended.
Vicious soldiers with rifles and beheading knives continued to climb
the three flights of stairs to rob and terrorize us. The frightened
children stood trembling with their tiny hands in the air as soldiers
robbed them, even taking off their shoes. Repeatedly soldiers threatened
our group with death if we did not produce more valuables.
Unknown to us then, the hour of 3:30 P.M. was set for the general
massacre of all foreigners in Nanking. Bowen and Jones listened through
the lattice under the eaves and heard the leader of our tormentors take
a vote to come up again and demand one thousand Chinese yuan per head
($45,000 for ninety people).
"If they don't pay up at once, shall we kill them all this time?"
he yelled.
The soldiers shouted their approval and dashed into the building,
shooting as they came, amidst ricocheting bullets.
At the same time, Americans of the business district, gathered with
Consul Davis on Socony Hill near the city wall, had suffered equal ter
rorizing and some deaths, besides robbery and mal-handling.
Here the Chinese army had set up field guns to demolish the build
ing on Socony Hill with its seventy or more foreigners, including our
courageous American Consul. Then as a last resort, Consul Davis sig
nalled our American destroyers to open fire.
They laid down a barrage accurately around Socony Hill, leaving the
side nearest the sixty-foot city wall open for refugees to escape by
using tied sheets and blankets as rope. These events at Socony Hill
were described by Alice Tisdale Hobart in letters to her family and prin
ted in Harper's, in July, 1927.
Without knowing it, Consul Davis and our U.S. destroyers had, at
the last minute, saved our lives also and prevented a massacre of both
groups planned for 3:30 P.M.
As our "executioners" at the University came up the stairs toward
our helpless group, thundering explosions shook the building. The sol
diers stopped, terrified. These were not Chinese guns — they must be
retaliating guns from the American destroyers. Their officers blew
whistles to recall all looters, whom they marched away in formation in
the opposite direction, indicating they were under orders all the while.
This bombardment was a voice of authority these red soldiers and
officers understood and respected. At last we were free from our tormen
tors and all was quiet.
79
Mr. Li, a Chinese professor who worked with me on Famine Preven
tion, and I secured a car and two young soldiers as guards, to seek out
missing Americans in the dark.
We first drove down to the American Consulate. Lights still burning
revealed a sacked and empty wreck. We stopped at several other places
in our area where Americans were in hiding. I called their names at the
top of my voice to come out, so they would recognize an American voice
and know this was not a Chinese trick to reveal their hiding places. We
sent everyone we found to Bailie Hall.
The Theological Seminary was a pall of smoke and the central build
ing was in flames. No one responded to our calls.
Late at night after devious leads, we found Anna Moffett, a coura
geous young teacher who was shot twice in the abdomen and had lain un
attended for fifteen hours, hidden by Chinese friends under straw in a
bamboo grove. We hurried Anna to Bailie Hall where her wounds were cared
for by Dr. Daniels and she survived.
Early next morning we renewed our search. We found one American in
an empty cistern, another covered with discarded dirty uniforms in the
back of a police station. Others had been hidden in their looted homes
or in the straw huts of Chinese friends or servants.
By noon, I reported to President Bowen that all thirty missing
Americans were accounted for, and he instructed Reverend Roberts and
me to make the perilous six-mile trip to the Yangtse River to contact
our naval forces.
We made our lonely way amid sullen, scowling faces and decapitated
heads attached to street poles and sign boards, to discourage looting.
Here at the water front, we picked our way around bodies of dead
animals and dead soldiers. Communist officers on horses were haranguing
crowds of defeated northern soldiers on the great benefits of Communism
and 'San Min Chu I" ("The Three Principles of the People." taken from
Lincoln's "Government of the People, by the People and for the People").
Our destroyers were anchored far off in midstream. Our hired boat
was peppered with bullets each time we tried to leave shore.
Finally, a Japanese landing party signalled our destroyers, and a
launch with Consul General Davis and U.S. Marines, bristling with guns,
took us to Admiral Hough on the flagship. He ordered us to evacuate
everyone immediately and abandon all property and belongings.
It was fortunate that Consul Davis persuaded Admiral Hough to
delay until word came from us before carrying out his ultimatum to
Chinese forces, to deliver all Americans within the city by eleven o'clock
or he would shell the city gates, arsenal, military headquarters and all
80
fortified points. The hour passed. Had he done so, with our 120 Ameri
cans still in the city, few would have gotten out alive.
We returned to the University and assembled our cavalcade. I led
the long line of horse carriages and rickshaws while Revand Roberts
brought up the rear, to see that no one was lett behind.
Leaving Bailie Hall, we passed between double lines of our Chinese
friends, co-workers, fellow faculty members and students. Many were
weeping and all showed unspeakable grief in their faces. They realized
we were all leaving, possibly never to return. It was a heart-rending
experience for all of us.
As darkness fell and we had not arrived, the Admiral was on the
point of carrying out his second ultimatum which ended at dusk, but Con
sul Davis again urged delay.
When three hours overdue, the head of our cavalcade arrived, and
all of us were distributed among American and British naval ships.
Finally all our International Community was safely aboard, except the
eight dead left behind.
Comment on the Nanki ng I nci dent
WCL: Just as the Germans tried out techniques of "blitzkrieg" against
helpless Spaniards, so the Russians, in this Nanking Incident,
used trained Chinese Communists to try out on us, for the first
time as far as I know, Communist tactics of arousing and lead
ing mobs to wreck American consulates and institutions, to hu
miliate nationals of the free world — to burn, loot and destroy
property — to mal-treat Americans especially, and in Nanking,
plan a massacre of all foreigners.
It was this "Nanking Outrage" that showed to General Chiang
Kai-shek that the Russian Borodin and his comrades were wolves
in sheep's clothing. They had discredited him before the Great
Powers. From this day forth, General Chiang began his long and
bitter fight against Communism, forcing the Reds to make a six-
thousand-mile trek to northwest China. It 'is to his credit
that he compensated all foreigners who made claims for their
losses through their respective consulates.
Moreover, this "Day of Infamy" began a breach in the
"Favored Nation" friendship between Chinese and American peoples
that dated back to America's "Open Door Policy," that prevented
81
WCL: the partition of China by Empire Builders of the last century,
also the United States return of Boxer indemnities in scholar
ships for Chinese students.
As Chinese Communists gained more and more control of
government, this wedge, begun here in Nanking, China, has ever
widened.
This breakup of friendship between our two great peoples
is one of the greatest tragedies of the twentieth century.
The Return to the United States
Chall: Your Nanking troubles were very serious. Did things go well
with you after you fled Nanking?
WCL: I should say not. The tragic Nanking Incident ttvjt had driven
us all out of China was over, but our troubles were not.
For three days, I had had little or no food as I searched
out Americans in hiding, until all except the eight fatal vic
tims were safe on American destroyers. Only then did I have
my first meal. The main dish was American tinned beef that
proved to be spoiled, so we all became violently ill with
ptomaine poisoning.
My wife had reached Shanghai three days before the U.S.
destroyer arrived with us aboard. She secured the last cabin
available for the next sailing, in five days, on a President
passenger liner bound for San Francisco.
Sick as I was, I could not or would not go to the hospital
as I should have done. There were too many things to attend to
in leaving China. I had no clothes except what I had on, no
watch, no glasses, just totally cleaned out of every personal
possession. My wife and boy only had with them the one small
suitcase they had taken for the temporary stay on the destroyer
while waiting in Nanking.
My wife has taped the story of our voyage back to the
United States in a raging typhoon, so I'll not go into that,
except to say that it was a grim experience.
CHINA, 1922-1927
CTaped questions and answers!]
Methods of Determi ni ng and Carry! ng Out Research
Chall: Dr. Lowdermilk, how did you decide how to proceed with your
studies on famine prevention and erosion?
WCL: Of course as a scientist, one rounds out a problem in its gen
eral terms, and then begins to gather information on It. How
can one overcome famines? How can one stop f am inns in a country
with 700 million people?
One is faced with a tremendous challenge and must have
simple procedures to get at some of the basic problems.
As I told you before, one of my methods is the progressive
hypothesis, which is really a geological type of observational
study. You set up, on the basis of what facts you have, a
hypothesis. Then you proceed further, gathering more informa
tion. And if one is intellectually honest and finds evidence
against his hypothesis, he will accept that and modify the
hypothesis in accordance with the new findings. This is a
provisional hypothesis of course.
Then as one goes on and finds more information, one must
modify the hypothesis again, and so on. In other words, it's
a progressive thing.
Often there will be questions that we cannot discover by
superficial observational studies. We need some sort of an
experimental treatment. Especially where one is dealing in
natural forces, there are situations that depend upon many
factors. One must isolate those factors somehow to get a meas
ure of their importance or their functions in the integrated
whole.
One makes surveys, and then these observational studies,
and then the experimental step. Then one must put all of it
together and see how it works. Sometimes it does, sometimes
it doesn't. If not, you've overlooked something. You find one
thing and that leads to another.
82
83
Contacts With Other Scientists
Chall: Did you ever find that sometimes somebody else making a study
in another part of the world might come across your conclusions
and carry on from there? Or even that, independently, they were
making studies similar to yours?
WCL: Oh yes. For instance, I had my papers picked up by Russians,
and they translated and reprinted them in Russian. And then,
regarding my forest litter studies, I got to know a Dutchman in
Indonesia. He had discovered the same thing and they were keep
ing litter on the ground on rubber plantations. They were put
ting in sort of a banquette type of terraces to catch water and
prevent it from running off, allowing it to sink through the
! itter.
Then I had another case in Tiflis, Georgia, south of the
Caucasus. This acquaintance was based on a paper I'd given
for the International Soils Science Society in Oxford back in
'35, and the Russian scientist and I got in touch with each
other then. He too found that forest litter is important in
the management of a watershed.
So he had the river basin surveyed for depth and spread
of litter. Those areas where the litter was deep and widely
spread and unbroken gave him an assurance of regulation, and
when they had less than this, they worked toward building up
a I itter cover.
Well, I was tipped off on this by Nick Mirov in the Uni
versity of California Department of Geography. Nick Mirov was
originally a Russian, but now he's an American citizen. He
told me that it was dangerous to this man for me to write to
him, because that was in Stalin's time, when they were very sus
picious of any contacts Russian people had with the outside
world. So I stopped writing.
Then there's J. Russell Smith. He was a geographer at
Columbia University. He had come to China, and when he found
me studying erosion, he got excited because he had also been
studying erosion. In those days I didn't have much of a build
up on publications. So he made me a co-author with him on an
article. I furnished the photographs and he and I wrote it up.
It was published in the Geographic Magazine. 1 believe the
title was "Erosion in Northwest China""
Chall: What was Mr. Smith doing in China?
WCL: He had a sabbatical and was on a trip around the world. He had
realized this erosion problem early. He found a solution in
84
WCL: what he called tree crops. In Italy, he saw how they were
growing chestnuts and other fruits and nuts on steep hillsides
as a part of their food supply. With these trees they were able
to maintain the soil in place without losing ?t by erosion. He
wrote a book on tree crops.
When he found in me another kindred soul who realized what
this erosion was doing Daughter], I had a friend forever. We
had the most wonderful friendship. He was one of my staunchest
supporters.
Visual Evidence of Erosion in China
WCL: Here is a copy of my doctoral thesis, "Factors Affecting
Surficia! Run-off of Rainfall and Surface Erosion of Soil
Profiles." It has pictures in it which will give some idea of
the problems I confronted in China. Here is one of those tem
ple forests in which there was no erosion, but here are ter
races — the country's been gullied up.
Now here's inside of this temple forest — it's beautiful.
This is Li Teh I, my first assistant. This land has been
cleared of forest. I found the timber lying beside these
fields was rotting, showing that they cleared the land not
for timber but for the food they could grow in the forest soil.
Very few people have seen this part of the world, but here
we are on the frontier of advancing cultivation Here's
another temple forest and this picture is inside a temple for
est; there's no erosion. [Flips pages] And the runoff—see,
this field has washed off until just stone is on the surface.
We called this "Contrast Valley," and I set up Installations
in here, and also out on this land where cultivation has been
abandoned, and then down in this field which was still being
cultivated but eroded. Here are the installations I set up
and the machinery that I worked out with a tinsmith.
Measur i ng Runoff and Erosion
Chall: What exactly did you have going there?
85
WCL: I had two tipping buckets. The Weather Bureau has what they
call a tipping bucket rain gauge that is diagonal, and when it
fills up it tips and this sets off an electrical contact. So
you have a strip recorder to record the rate of rainfall as well
as the amount. You see, we are very much interested in the in
tensity of rain.
I had the tipping bucket rain gauge. Then I decided to
make a bigger tipping bucket for measuring the runoff.
Chal I : How did you measure runoff?
WCL: I had to establish plots, so that the water wouldn't run off
except through our outlet pipe and wouldn't run inside from the
outside. In other words, we'd catch only the rain that fell on
the plot on which we had established the borders.
Chal I: These plots represented all the kinds of land that were actually
in those areas, so that you could test them?
WCL: Yes. These were sample plots. You see, it's impossible to find
out an average for all these things. You have to isolate your
factor to get decisive results. You do not measure three or
four things when you really want to measure only one.
Chal I: Had nobody before measured what was running off?
WCL: There were Dooley and Miller. They did not have an automatic
device; they simply caught the runoff in a tank. They let it
settle and then dipped off the water. This left the si Ity
material .
Chal I: And where had they done this?
WCL: They did this in Missouri. The fact is, I had spent a whole
season in northwest China trying to measure runoff from small
watersheds by the method that had been used before in Switzer
land. But when I was up in this farming region, the rain came
down as fast as an inch an hour or faster. Well, actually that
isn't so intense, but when the soil surface is bare and it's
sealed over, then the runoff factor is very great, enormous,
real ly.
I spent a whole summer with a pack train for our equipment
and three assistants doing work up in Shansi. This wasn't book
stuff; this was work. We spent a whole summer without any
quantitave results.
But I had observational information. I used photographs,
and then I gave a hypothetical explanation of what was going on
as the basis of the hypothesis. I couldn't say that this was
86
WCL: actually done, because we hadn't experimentally established it.
When the runoff from the rain of an inch an hour rushed
down off the slopes, there was a roar because the runoff was
full of soil and debris and boulders. One could hear the boul
ders striking each other, sort of a muffled sound like cannon
ading. The smaller gravel hitting against the boulders sounded
like machine-gun fire. In other words, these were torrential
flows — we called them mud flows, they were so powerful.
Since then we have much information on mud flows, as we
found in Mexico in the study of the Paricutin erosional pheno
mena in the volcanic ash material. One can get fifty to sixty-
five per cent and that usually gives a density of two; water
has a density of one. With a density of two, such mud flows
will actually float out large stones. That's the only way one
can explain the great stones down at the end of outwash fans.
Chal I : You were actually measuring then how much soil the rain took
with it from these barren lands? And then contrasting it with
what happened in the temple forests, where apparently you didn't
lose anything?
WCL: That's right.
Chal I: It must have been quite exciting.
WCL: I should say it was. I never have worked so hard, and there
was nobody cheering because we were way out in interior China.
But we didn't need to be cheered on.
Reaction of Chinese Scholars to Field Work
Chal I : How did your colleagues feel?
WCL: Oh, they were fine. We'd get out in the field and analyze the
problem, and what should be done. I always treated them on a
par. They were graduates from accepted agricultural and for
estry courses, but this was all book knowledge.
Chal I: Then they didn't go out into the forests and fields as you had
already done.
WCL: But when I went out, they too would go. One time when we were
making a cross-sectional survey of the vegetation of one of
87
WCL: these drainage basins we used for experiments, we climbed up
following a compass line. You can't deviate but must follow
your line. We had a steep climb, so I sat down to rest.
Then I asked them, "What do the neighboring Chinese farmers
think about this?"
They said, "We Chinese couldn't go out here .and do this If
you weren't along."
Chall: I see. It would be beneath their dignity as scholars.
WCL: Exactly. And of course they expect a foreigner to do foolish
things. L~ laughter] But I explained how we had to get on the
ground, to find out what actually happens so as to establish our
measures, or corrections, or improvements from a definite area
of knowledge that we had established.
Later, I would send my staff out on their own, assign them
an area to make a similar survey. They were very enthusiastic.
One of them got into a bandit territory where the Chinese were
kidnapping people with money — landlords particularly — and hold
ing them for ransom. If one dressed as a scholar or as gentry,
he would be liable to such capture and kidnapping, and his
family would have to pay ransom. And if they didn't pay, they'd
ki I I him.
It was dangerous and no fun. So my boys disguised them
selves as lowly farmers and then went about the countryside and
got information. C laughter] Those were wonderful boys.
Chall: It's interesting that now in modern China the Communists have
insisted that their students get out onto the farms and fields
to work.
WCL: They're only doing what I said in the first place.
This was our group. Cshowing pictures]* This was Mr. Ip,
who was a professor of forestry at Nanking, China. He was
educated at Yale, so ordinarily he wouldn't get out.
Here's Li Teh I. He's a very intelligent chap and loyal.
After we were attacked in Nanking and our navy had laid down a
barrage around the Socony Hill where many of the Americans had
taken refuge, I said to Li, "We've got to get out and find
these people." I knew I could trust him in any emergency.
So he got a car, and we began to hunt out the missing Am
ericans. It's quite a long story, which I've written and in
cluded in this chapter.
I k's report on the C/ur/ey of n,e K;oi H
88
WCL: Li and I found that this first night, our forelgnors were so
well hidden by friendly Chinese, they wouldn't be found by the
Communists. Also I realized we couldn't take manv people in our
small car, so that if we found any, we would disclose their hid
ing place. There were some thirty or forty people around the
University and we couldn't rescue them all that night. I de
cided it would be better to let them stay hidden where they were
unti I daytime.
Chal I : But he was a help to you.
WCL: Yes, I would not have gone out without him. We h;id tramped
over a lot of country in northwest China and been in tight places,
so I knew he wouldn't lose his head in an emergency.
Then there's Ren Chen Tung. He was the son of a farmer up
in the province of Shansi . There they have lime in the soil,
and men grow tall. Ren was very loyal. He risked his life for
me. When Communist soldiers were coming up the stairs in the
University, shouting they were going to kill us, Ren put him
self in a dangerous position and blocked their wav. They might
have ki I led him.
Chal I: They didn't though?
WCL: They didn't — surprisingly, for they were mean fellows.
Whenever I went into northwest China when I was a professor
at the University of Nanking, the Chinese were very generous in
their attitude toward me. I was often asked to make talks, even
way out in central Asia, where there was some student who had
graduated from the University of Nanking. He might be on a mili
tary assignment or a jaunt of some kind.
Later on when I began to publish reports, I made my three
Chinese assistants co-authors with me. Although they did not
write anything, they were taking part in the accumulation of
data and helped me in many ways.
These papers were written in English. When I left China
as a result of the Nanking Incident, my assistants wanted these
reports published to give them prestige. They translated them
into Chinese and published them, so that they were read all over
China. When I was back in '42 to '44, I found out that I was
well-known by these writings in the hinterland of China.
Chal I: Very interesting. They were still quoting your theories and
your findings and solutions to quite a number of problems?
WCL: Yes, and this gave me a great deal of satisfaction.
89
Read i ng the Ancient Ch i nese Gazetteers*
Chal I: Could you go back for a moment and show me the ancient gazetteer
you told me about the other day? You must have been having
somebody translate them while you were still in China.
WCL: Now this record dreading from a gazetteer] goes back to 966 A.D.,
and these county gazetteers report famines due to drought, fam
ines due to floods, which were restricted to less areas but were
much more destructive and violent. Then we have 1 amines due to
grasshoppers — locusts. Time after time there are references to
them and to how they were so dense in the sky that they blotted
out the sun. Then there are references to plagues and diseases.
Chal I: You were concerned with famine due to floods primarily?
WCL: We were interested in famines whatever the cause, but my ap
proach was, "What can be done in this field that may enable us
to prevent or avoid or alleviate famines?"
Chal I: What exactly are these records you call gazetteers?
WCL: In Chinese history, the county seems to be the moi,t permanent
division of the land. You go back through early dynasties, and
the boundaries of these county records will still be the same.
These are the gazetteers, which were revised about once every
ten years. These record the events or conditions that affected
the people of that time; for instance, eclipses of the sun or
moon, great storms or rains, floods, and that sort of thing.
Now here are three different counties in the same province,
and these are their records.
Chal I: They go back a long way. Did one of your assistants do this
translation for you?
WCL: Oh yes. Some of my assistants were excellent translators who
knew English well. When it came to the gazetteers, I just
sat down at the table and opened up this book. Then I would
say to the translator while turning the pages, "What's this
about?" And he'd tell me. If it was something I wasn't in
terested in, we'd pass it up. Then when he came to something
on floods or famines, I'd have him translate it and put it in
the records for our file for building up information.
Let me just read this little item frorr the year 1504:
*vore on gazetteers in Chapter VIM.
90
WCL: "1504 — Famine and flood in Hunan, Yanchou, Luchou , Fengyang.
People eating each other. Flood rising in Fengyang about fif
teen feet higher than ground level."
Well, here's another one, in 1599. "People eat each other.
Serious famine." There are many cases of cannibalism. This is
why I say that in a famine, civilization falls apurt.
When famines reach these extremes, the situation is prac
tically hopeless. In a country like China, there was inadequate
transportation, so that there would be famine one place, but a
short distance away there would be plenty. The country is large
enough to have favorable rains occur in one place and not occur
in other places. Without transportation to exchange products
or move food materials, then people were dependent pretty much
on what was under foot.
One of the methods of famine relief in ancient times was
that if a population was undergoing starvation conditions, they
would set out on a migration and go to those areas where there
was food and where crops had not failed. It was understood
they wouldn't stay very long in one place but move on. Often
migrations would go up into the mountains or places where foods
are not grown in such quantity but where there is usually
greater diversity and perhaps animal life in addition 1o vegetables,
Chall: Then would they ultimately stay some place, or would they go
back?
WCL: They generally went back to their original area and started
all over again. There are reports of migrating groups caught
by floods and being wiped out.
Chall: Did you have the feeling that if you had been able to stay in
China, you might have established land practices that would
have provided more food and helped prevent floods, and that you
actually could have been of some permanent help to the Chinese?
WCL: Well, if one is a conservationist, one must be an optimist, and
believe that somehow, somewhere, and sometime, you will be able
to find the basic problem and do something constructive to save
the lives of people involved. That is one's basic approach.
The Hwai River Report
WCL: This is one of my reports of the Hwai River drainage^ I used
91
WCL: the device in this, of going to old honorable men of the com
munity who knew what had happened in the past and got from them
important evidence.
For instance, one of the problems here was this river of
sand coming out of the mountains into the Hwai River and filling
it up to the banks. Then when flood waters came, they overflowed
the banks and spread all over because the channel was clogged.
Chall: You mean clogged with sand?
WCL: There's erosional debris too; that's finer material. Here's a
picture of one of the sand rivers. We have an historical record
that formerly the sand had not yet reached this place. Here is
a picture showing how they floated produce down river with rafts.
Chall: Is that because it was so sandy they couldn't use a boat?
WCL: Yes, the water became so shallow, they couldn't use boats any
more, and so they used a very clever device of making bamboo
rafts. When I get out with these people and see them doing
things like this, I admire their ingenuity. They have an ex
pression "giang ju," which means "adjust to circumstances."
Joint Expedition W i t h (h_ J_._ Todd to see Effects ajid_ Meaning
of Silt
Chall: How did you happen to plan your joint expedition to Shensi
Province with 0. J. Todd?
WCL: I had seen where the Yellow River had broken out of its dikes
in 1852, and instead of flowing into the Yellow Sea as it had
for seven hundred years, it broke through the dikes and flowed
to the north, four hundred miles into the Gulf of Chihli. I
had heard that Todd was in China and we met to talk over the
situation.
Chall: Hadn't Todd been in China before you?
WCL: Yes, because he had started out early in the famine. I really
got there after the famine was over. There was much still up
set, distorted and disarranged, but the people had had a crop
and the Famine Relief people had been able to get seeds for
the farmers. That was important, because farmers had eaten
9?
WCL: all their seed grains. Then when the first crop came from new
seeds and there had been favorable rains, they felt the relief
period was over, and henceforth it was more or less reconstruc
tion and assistance work.
Chall: Who proposed this expedition together into northwest China?
WCL: I told Todd, "I had to go up to see where all this silt was
coming from." I talked to him about silt, but he had never
been up the headwaters [of the Yellow River]. He had not been
out in Shensi in northwest China, and was anxious to go and see
the old irrigation project called King Ho, established in 225 B.C.,
at about the same time as the Gwanshen project, 240 B.C., which I
told Todd about seeing.
This King Ho irrigation scheme is the most striking example
of how destructive erosion and silt can be. In the case of the
Gwanshen project in Szechuan Province, the water came from the
Min River drainage, on the eastern borders of Tibet in which
the country rock is hard, not erodable like the loess soils.
Stone decomposed very slowly, and soils were shallow and with
considerable forest. Little could be farmed, so the native vege
tation, as azaleas and rhodendrons, bloom in all their glory, and
honeysuckles grow wild. It's a marvelous place in springtime.
The Gwanshen project had clear water, but had what we call
bedload, that is, gravel and boulders that are moved and rolled
along the bottom of the stream bed but there was very little
suspended material to make the water muddy. So by a simple
engineering device that Li Bing worked out, they were able to
farm this Chengtu plain of half a million acres for 2,250 years
without a flood and without a famine.
Now across the mountains in the loessal region to the
north where the wind-laid soil covered much of the country and
there were great gullies in it, the King Ho irrigation project
had been established, and this was what Todd and I wanted to see.
see.
In Szechuan the project was a continuous successful opera
tion with never serious interruptions, but over here in the King
Ho where they had to deal with massive quantities of silt, our
study of records show that up to a certain time they mentioned
the silt as fertilizer, and were glad to have the land covered
with sediments from streams. But then later these records tell
about this mud that is very harmful to the ground. It packs
the surface and doesn't take water in for irrigation.
The depth of silt in irrigation waters had built up the
land higher and higher until the intake was not high enough to
give a flow to water. Then they had had to go higher upstream
in order to have a grade so that water would flow down into the
93
WCL: area to be irrigated. Each time this happened, the irrigation
project was put out of commission until these repairs were made
and the canal dug higher or deeper upstream. This irrigation
project failed time after time. We have in this gazetteer the
whole sad story of how many times this irrigation project had
fai I ed in the past.
Todd and I were both interested in this particular irriga
tion project. He hadn't seen it, and I was eager to see where
this silt was coming from, so we set up a cooperative expedi
tion. I had the funds from our Famine Prevention program, and
he had funds from the International Famine Relief Commission.
Cha I 1 : Todd was struggling with this problem of silt in the work relief
projects in rebuilding dikes, was he not?
WCL: Yes. Todd carried out work relief, and he paid workers no
money but paid them in food and grain. Actually he was res
ponsible for putting more men to work than anybody has ever done
in any place in the world, unless perhaps ancient Egypt.
Then at a later time, he put the Yellow River back in its
channel. After the Japanese invaded China, the Chinese broke
the dikes so floods would drown the Japanese armies. Then
later on, when conditions became settled, Todd put the river
back in its channel. That's an event of heroism.
Chall: Todd stayed there for many years then.
WCL: Oh yes, longer than I did. He went back after the 1927 incident.
Chall: When you were out with Todd, you had the feeling that much of
this erosion was caused by improper use of land. According to
your written material, you had already begun to assume -this?
WCL: Now, to answer that question, I want to show you a picture.
[shows picture of land deeply eroded, from "Ancient Irrigation
in China," p. 215] These are tremendous gullies. Look, those
little parcels are farms. There's a village. In places here
they have even begun to terrace the slopes of these gullies..
Just ponder this picture. Here live hundreds of thousands
of people and this is their land of fertile loessal soils; ?\'s
very susceptible to erosion. This is the country out of which
water comes for this King Ho irrigation project. This is why"
the Yellow River is yellow. The Chinese call it Hwang Tu,
ye I low earth .
You see how this erosion undermines a civi I hratio'n? One
does not have to have a microscope to see this destruction of
land. In other words, here we're dealing with forces that
94
WCL: determine the destiny of all civilization. It's difficult to
get out and talk to even our farmers and get them to comprehend
what this picture should tell us — should warn us about.
Chall: What could be done? Is it possible to farm this kind of land?
WCL: The whole situation is so complex that we can't come out with
a ready-made answer. When you propose something that can be
done and that people will do, then you have advanced a long
way. That's why I have called for pilot projects.
Chall: How did Todd react to your conclusion about the origins and
meaning of silt?
WCL: He was in complete agreement. He was an engineer and I was a
geologist and we were both trained observers in such matters.
Solving Problems Caused ^y_ Erosion
WCL: I told you about that canal; here is a picture of the intake
["Ancient Irrigation in China," p. 217]. They've extended this
intake up into the limestone country. This is Li Sheh, a good
friend of mine who was a Chinese engineer. They had diverted
water just about as far upstream as they could go, so they cut
a tunnel through but this still brings in muddy water.
Here's a picture of the diversion that tunnels water
through the mountain to feed into the irrigation, but if the
silt content goes up beyond fifteen percent by weight, it is
necessary to shut off the water even though it is needed for
i rrigation.
Chall: Then what do they do, shovel the silt out?
WCL: Oh no. It's too tremendous.
Chall: Could it be done with machinery? Do you just go on diverting
endlessly?
WCL: No. Of course they've got to reduce the erosion wherever it
takes place. Where the raindrop strikes the ground, there's
where you can really do something about it.
Chall: Can you do different kinds of planting in the loess land?
95
WCL: Oh yes, we can grow trees. But the situation which makes it so
difficult is that demands of the people to grow food on the land
are now so high they can't permit trees to grow. If they need
fuel, they'll go out and pull up the trees they have planted for
fuel, and to cook their food. So fuel becomes a part of their
food supply, and as I've said many times, we have to be in pos
session of a certain amount of abundance to act in an intelli
gent way in the conservation of our resources, for "a starving
farmer will eat his seed grain." You'll do it and I'M do it
when we're faced with this grim decision.
How can we catch up with this population explosion, and
get a pause long enough to restore what we call forest condi
tions, or rebuild the organic content of soils that have been
so deprived of vegetation?
It is a tremendous problem for which there isn't any ready
and rapid solution. It would require a consistent and continu
ing program based on measures that will work.
You see, when land is cut up in gullies, it's ruined for
food crops. We'll have to take these areas and terrace them.
But economists will say you can't do that because it won't
pay. But I say, "Yes, you will, because you will do what is
necessary to survive. Survival is more important." Economics
only sets priorities.
Lowdermilk Finds his Life Work
Chall: So when you saw this struggle with silt, you decided your life
would be devoted to the study of silt and its consequences.
WCL: Yes. I said, "Why should farmers of China have to work so hard
moving all this earth to build up dikes, to protect their lands
from flooding?"
Previously I had said to Inez, "What am I doing out here?
I can't teach these Chinese how to improve making things grow.
They know all this. So why am I here?"
But when I made that trip to the headwaters, and I found
out where the silt was coming from and why, and saw the con
trasts in the Buddhist temple forests, the problem took on its
aspect of being a region-wide, world-wide problem, affecting all
mankind and his future as well as the present. And then I
96
WCL: knew why I was there.
Forestry in China in the I920's
Chal I : What was the position of forestry in China at that time?
WCL: I discussed this in an article, "Forestry in Denuded China,"*
but I will tell you a little more about it.
In the first place there were no national forests at all.
There were only those held in ownership by a few persons, gen
erally families or clans. Where the land was too rough to
cultivate, there was nothing else to do but leave forests and
native vegetation to develop. Timber was cut out of them by
the clan or fami ly.
Then as time went on and the clan became more and more
numerous, the land also was divided up, until the parcels that
were left were so small that it didn't justify putting a bound
ary around the forest. So the farmers became joint owners of
a tract of forest.
Then if one wanted to cut timber out of it, those who had
certain rights to it would get permission to cut trees, from
some of those who were joint owners.
Chal I: Was there a head man in charge?
WCL: Yes. A person could go ahead and cut forest once he had per
mission, but no one protected the forest. It was nobody's
real concern. There was no forest management; even protection
from fire wasn't very rigidly taken care of. In other words,
the forests had a very weak position. No foresters had
responsibi I ity .
The only forests that I found were those controlled by
Buddhist priests. These were the temple forests I spoke of.
Of course these gave us a sample of what the forest of this
whole region may have been like at one time. I don't believe
there was very much planting of forests by the priests — the
trees reproduced naturally. The priests protected the forest
*Annals o_f_ the American Academy of_ Po I i t i ca 1 Soc i a I
Science, Vol.~52, November, 1930.
97
WCL: to have shade and seclusion and an agreeable atmosphere for
meditation. If and when they needed repairs for their temple,
they would cut one or more trees as they needed them.
Now, I've been speaking of forests up in the Yellow River
basin. China can be divided into three parts: there's the
northern portion in which the Yellow River drains most of the
land where there's an average rainfall of around twenty inches
a year; then the Yangtze River basin which gets about forty
inches of rain a year; and then south China, which has the
Pearl River, the Red River and two smaller rivers, and where
rainfall averages about sixty inches. So you can see that
where there is a great amount of moisture available, you have
a corresponding growth in forests when it's permitted to grow.
In the Yangtze River basin, bamboo flourishes and the
Chinese manage it and treat it as a crop. They eat the bamboo
shoots as a food. Bamboo is called the farmer's best friend
because it has a thousand and one uses. It is a practical
material and grows rapidly and is strong and easily worked.
There were areas where I had my boys make surveys. One
of them ran into a big bamboo area where they were managing it
as a forest. One characteristic of this bamboo that made it so
useful was that it isn't heavy but very strong.
The weight of logs would be a real problem in China. I
showed you that bulletin on the Hwai River and the picture of
the men carrying the bamboo rafts on their shoulders. Although
these carriers were tremendously strong, logs were heavy and
there was a limit to the load they could carry. For this rea
son, farmers wouldn't let trees grow beyond a certain height or
weight, because they had to be carried by men from the woods
down to the stream. Because there were no roads, no carts, men
carried by muscle power the logs from the river to lumber yards
i n the cities.
Chall: You mean they had no donkeys?
WCL: No, they didn't even have donkeys up here.
Chall: No animal labor at all, just human muscle?
WCL: The farmers had what they call a yellow cow, a draught animal
for plowing, but for some reason, the donkey didn't seem to
thrive in this northern part of China.
Now there's one other interesting thing about forests in
the Yangtze belt of drainage. Fuel was one of the most impor
tant uses of woody material. 1 took some foresters over to
show them what forestry was in China, and showed them how the
98
WCL: people cut the grass every year with sickles, and store this
grass as their fuel supply. Then I showed them the differences
between the cutting and burning practices of the villagers and
of the Buddhist priests.
We went into the kitchens of the Buddhist priests to see
how they had designed their cooking stoves to burn grass, noth
ing else. An old man or woman would use big chopsticks and
reach into a bag of grass near the fire, take a little bit of
grass and put it under the thin iron basin to heat food to be
boiled or fried. One advantage was that when they didn't want
any more fire, they didn't put more grass under, so they used
the minimum of fuel for cooking purposes.
I showed these guests Purple Mountain which we re-forested
as part of our famine prevention program. In the annual cut
ting of grasses with a sickle, they also cut new sprouts of the
hardwood species where it was coming out from the edges of the
root. Where we protected areas, these hardwood species began
to grow. If the Chinese grass cutters would let them grow, the
hardwood species would become another forest.
I said, "We don't need to plant seedlings here."
But they said, "If we don't plant pine, then we cannot get
woodcutters to cut the grasses to bring into the town to burn."
In some cases they set up regulations to protect grasses
and seedlings and let them grow. Since the people couldn't dis
tinguish the hardwoods, the authorities planted pine. If cut
ters had pine in a bundle, it would give away the fact that
they'd been cutting where they weren't supposed to.
Often in forests that ought to have been growing timber,
there was no timber at all, just grasses. But down in the val
leys, one might see trees in rows, and irrigated. This was es
pecially so out toward central China in the dry regions. This
growing of timbers became more and more a feature of the country
side because the Chinese needed large timbers for houses.
Chall: So they were growing trees for a purpose. This was sort of a
management technique.
WCL: Oh yes. They not only set aside land for the trees, but would
have little streams of water coming down to irrigate them.
Chall: And who was doing that?
WCL: The farmers would do it. You must remember that China never
had landlordism to a very great extent. The Chinese might have
a small home in the village and as he prospered, he would buy
99
WCL: some land. His ideal was to buy up four or five acres which he
would rent out to a farmer. Then he became in time a man more
important in the community, and would continue to improve his
cond it ion.
The father of one of my assistants, Feng Chao Lin, had ac
quired a few acres to rent. When the Communists came, they said,
"You're a landlord," and they killed him. Hut landlordism, as
in Egypt, Italy, Africa, or the Middle East, where a man held
great areas of land, did not exist in China.
There was the New Life movement going on in China at that
time. Many of the governors were trying to develop their people
and their industries, as Yen Shi-shan, who was the model governor
of the province of Shansi and who cooperated with me and sent out
police to see that my installations were not molested.
These governors also set up schools and some had forestry
departments. Forestry especially had a good name in China. Gen
eral Wu Pei Fu, the scholarly war lord, had a model forest. Many
of these governors or departments of forestry would plant up
areas wherever they could get land, sometimes by ousting an enemy
and taking over his land. Especially if there had been a poli
tical war, the man who won would take over the land of the
other. Then he would plant it up with trees. This is the way
a certain number of jobs were created for foresters who had been
trained. Chinese didn't have large sums of money to develop
programs like we have, so they largely depended on farmers to
do the tree planting as well as the agriculture.
Memories of Pearl Buck
Chall: Dr. Lowdermilk, you and Mrs. Lowdermilk have mentioned several
times that you regard Pearl Buck as one of the most brilliant
women you have ever known (the other being Rachel Yarden in
Israel). Did your acquaintance with Mrs. Buck begin when you
I i ved i n Ch i na?
WCL: Yes, Pearl and Lossing, her first husband, were our next-door
neighbors for five years in Nanking. We remember our delight
when her first short stories began to be published. I do not
believe Pearl had any real conception of her remarkable talents
that were to bring her international recognition, considerable
wealth, and many honors and prizes, including the Nobel Prize
for literature. But it was interesting to watch her development
100
which was forced on her by the urgent need to provide every
possible opportunity for the development of her sadly retarded
only daughter.
When they stopped to visit us in Berkeley, enroute back to
China with their adopted daughter, leaving Carol in an insti
tution, Pearl said, "I must return to China, and though I can't
hope for a best-seller, I must write a sufficiently good book
to take care of Carol if anything should happen to me."
The result was The Good Earth, which brought her fame
and wealth and was the first of many books. She wrote rapidly,
seldom had to even rewrite a sentence. Her secretary typed
the manuscript, Pearl read it for corrections and it was
ready for the publisher of Day and Day Company, who became
her second husband.
Pearl adopted some ten orphans and established "The Buck
Foundation" to care for Oriental orphans left by our U.S.
sol diers.
Mrs. Lowdermi I k Tel Is of her Experiences During the Nanking
I ncident
Chall: Mrs. Lowdermi Ik, I wanted you to tell me about your experiences
in the Nanking Incident, during most of which, as I understand
it, you were aboard ship.
Mrs. L.: That was a terrible experience for everybody. Walter has writ
ten up his story, telling of his experiences within the city
of Nanking. Altogether I had been through thirteen wars in
west China. I was not afraid and refused to go onto the gun
boat. However, my husband was the liaison in time of crisis
between the American destroyers and the American consul, for
the safety of the 120 American citizens in the city, largely
around the American Union University. He insisted our two-
year-old son and I go for temporary refuge; otherwise, he
could not insist that other wives and children leave their
homes and crowd onto the American destroyer.
The Northern army was retreating because of the advance of
Chiang Kai-shek and his forces. It was feared the Northern
ers might retreat into Nanking, close the city gates, and we
would be trapped in a besieged city, in which case we couldn't
101
Mrs. L.: get food. Or we might be subjected to general looting as the
Northern troops waited for boats to cross the Yangtze River.
So the captains of the two U.S. destroyers and the American
consul decided all women and children should be put aboard our
destroyers anchored out in the Yangtze River. I objected ve
hemently because it was most inconvenient to take a little
two-year-old boy and crowd into ships quarters.
We were allowed only one suitcase. We did not know whether
we would stay for three days, a week, or what. But Walter
said, "You've got to go, whether you want to or not. I can't
make the other women go and take their children unless you
go." So I had to be obedient in this case, [laughter]
We had impossible quarters. We were crowded in the prow
of the boat right under the big gun. In a space that was for
six sailors, there were altogether thirteen women and babies.
Our husbands came down to see us the next day, and we all
wanted to go home, for everything seemed to be perfectly safe.
Then the next morning, we heard shooting and saw a pal 1
of smoke hanging over the city. We couldn't have our port
holes open at all for fresh air, because soldiers were shoot
ing from the shore at us and bullets were popping against
our ship.
In the afternoon, the time, 3:30, apparently had been set
by the Communists within the Nationalist army to kill all
foreigners. Word had gone out from the Russian adviser
Borodin, "Kill and destroy all foreign life and property in
Nanki ng ."
We didn't know what was happening to our husbands within
the city at the University, neither did we know what was
happening at Sha Guan, where the Communist soldiers had set
up guns to destroy the home on Socony Hill where Consul Gen
eral Davis had gathered seventy or more Americans under his
protection. He realized that the guns could demolish the
house and kill all of them. As a last resort he sent one of
our sai lors up on the roof to wig-wag a message to our des
troyer to open fire. Of course, the ship knew the location
of this gathering place that had been agreed upon in case of
this emergency.
At that moment, a sailor came running down the ladder
steps and threw cotton on the table, saying, "Stuff the
babies' ears immediately. We're going to open fire, and it
will burst their eardrums." So each mother grabbed her baby
on her lap. I had told our little son, who was interested
in animals, that the big gun right on top of us, on the steel
102
Mrs. L.: plate overhead, was going to talk. I put my hands over his
ears in addition to stuffing them with cotton, and of course
it was only a few moments until there was this terrific ex
plosion, which shattered all the electric light globes, and
we were in darkness with the screaming youngsters.
From the explosion which sent the projectile off, we got
the ejected huge cartridges as they tumbled down on the steel
plate over our heads, which was also a bang. Then we got the
sound when all that TNT exploded around Socony Hill. Alto
gether we had 180 explosions to endure.
If I had known what was happening, I would have felt very
differently about this shooting into the city, which I deeply
resented. Actually this shooting saved the lives of our hus
bands in the city at the University, and also saved the lives
of the seventy Americans who were with the American consul
on Socony Hill. But as it was, I thought that we were blow
ing up the city gates and the arsenal and important places
in the Chinese city.
I loved the Chinese, and I felt that this was the last
straw for the white man, especially Americans, to do to our
lovely city. So I was emotionally just furious as we listened
to the 180 explosions. Of course, this was very hard on the
screaming children in the darkness, for it lasted so long.
Then when it was over and the shooting ceased, we still
could not open any of our portholes because of firing from
the shore. When it was dark, I went up the ladder steps onto
the protected side of our destroyer to find an officer. I
looked across to the north side of the river, and Pu Kow was
all in flames, and one could see people silhouetted against
the fire carrying their aged, their household bundles, or
their children on their backs as they fled along the river
bank.
The retreating soldiers had gotten into all fhe boats
they could commandeer and had crossed the river. Then when
safe, they began to loot and burn. But there was no shooting
from that side, so I felt safe.
When I found an officer, I said, "If we have no light at
all, may we open a porthole?"
He said, "No, lady, they're shooting too much from the Nan
king side, but we are going to move you onto a refugee ship
about midnight. So you will just have to put UD with the
situation as it is until then."
As they loaded the boat on the north side away from Nankinq
103
Mrs. L.: and the shooting, I was standing ready to be loaded down the
ladder steps when I heard one of our sailors say to an officer
above, "Don't load her too heavy; the engine's on the blink
tonight."
It was an open boat where we sat entirely exposed to the
elements. It was bitterly cold and was sleeting. The Yangtze
River was flowing down, and the tide was coming in, so when
the two of them met, the waters were very rough and choppy.
We had thought it would be a short ride from our ship to
the refugee ship, but we had a rude shock. All ships on the
river were blacked out. Great huge hulks loomed up in the
darkness, none of them with lights, and no one knew which were
enemy ships or where our friendly refugee ship was anchored.
Our boys had started out apparently without sufficient know
ledge.
A couple of times the engine stopped, and the sailors put
their little caps over the flashlight as they worked with the
engine, but immediately bullets began to pop around the water
near us, and we were in a dangerous situation. Finally they
got it started again, and twice we went up to big black hulks,
and the sailors called out, "Are you expecting any women and
children refugees tonight?" I remember one very blasphemous
(unprintable) emphatic, "No!" So we had to start out search
ing in the darkness for our refugee ship again.
In the meantime, we had been wandering around on this
turbulent Yangtze River in blackness (except for the distant
light from the burning city of Pu Kow across the river) for
more than two hours with a crippled engine, unable to find
where we were to go. I was frozen and stiff holding our lit
tle boy on my lap as the waves tossed us about and sleet stung
my face. I remember distinctly having the feeling and almost
a prayer that we would go down suddenly and have it a I I over
with, instead of this suspense and utterly freezing misery.
Finally our engine went totally dead again, and we bobbed
helplessly about. But by this time, we were quite a distance
up the Yangtze. Our sailors saw an occasional flashing light
way down the river and assumed it might be a signal for us.
Our sailors guided our boat in the current down to the light
that from time to time seemed a signal. Finally we reached
the landing craft beside the boat.
I was frozen stiff and unable to lift our son off my lap,
and to make things more difficult, I was also pregnant with
our little girl who was born not too long after our arrival
in America. One of the Marines took our two-year-old boy and
carried him up the ladder while another one helped me.
104
Mrs. L.: At the top of the ladder was Consul Davis, and I said,
"What do you know about the men in the city?"
He said, "The only word I have had was at eight o'clock
this morning from your husband. He said that he had been with
Dr. Williams when he had been shot in cold blood at his feet.
They had all been robbed. I told your husband to keep in touch
with me but the phone went dead, and I have never heard from
anyone within the city since then. However, we do know from
some Chinese reports that some Americans have been killed, and
that many of their houses were burned and all homes were looted."
Our refugee ship which was built for only eighty-five pas
sengers now had 275 aboard. Everybody was hungry; nobody had
been fed. This ship had all the seventy-plus refugees from
Socony Hill. The ship's sailors made sandwiches by the hun
dreds and got together what food they could to feed people
without having them sit down at the table. Some stood, many
sat on the floor, and everyone was excited, telling of their
experiences.
Of course, we were very alarmed as I heard that when a ring
wouldn't come off of Dr. Smith's finger, they just chopped off
his finger, and when somebody else had resisted being robbed
he was ki I led.
During this day, eight foreigners altogether had been killed,
so we were much concerned for our husbands up in the city. We
knew our homes were gone, but our hope was that something had
saved our men from the mobs.
Of course, we didn't know at that time that three-thirty
had been set as the hour for the general massacre. Neither
did we know that the Chinese Communist soldiers at the Univer
sity campus, who had robbed and re-robbed our Americans until
there was no possibility of getting any more money or valuables,
had still voted whether to demand one thousand Chinese dollars
each, or about ninety thousand dollars, immediately or they
would kill them all.
It would have been easier had we but known the American
lives our destroyer was saving by our big guns, but we didn't.
We left Nanking on the refugee boat not knowing whether our
husbands were dead or alive. We were terribly crowded and
there were no sleeping facilities except on the floor.
The next morning we passed a Chinese fort. The captain
came along ahead of time and told us to all lie down flat on
the floor so that if any guns shot from this fort, we would
be down low where the steel hull was under the windows. Sure
enough, we were shot at, but no shells hit our ship.
105
Mrs. L.: When we arrived in Shanghai, I knew this was the end of
our stay in China. We were due to leave on furlough anyway
in two months when our five-year term would be over, so I went
immediately from the boat to the "President" passenger ship
offices and secured almost the last cabins available on the
next sailing to America.
Then I had a terrible three-day wait. We didn't know
whether our husbands were dead or alive. You see, it was
before the days of radio, which might have enabled us to know
immediately what was happening.
Final I y we had word that third day that an American and a
British destroyer were coming down with the Americans from
within the city that Walter had gathered in Bailie Hall. Then,
as he wrote in his report, it was up to him to locate and res
cue the other thirty or more who were hidden and had not been
able to reach Bailie Hall. He found one in an empty cistern,
and another one covered up by old dirty police uniforms in
the back of a police station, and others here arid there. And
Anna Moffett — he discovered her late at night lying in a bam
boo grove covered up by her Chinese friends with straw. She
had been shot at eight o'clock in the morning twice through
the abdomen and had Iain there all day — fifteen hours — without
medical attention.
My husband was able, through the Chinese, to locate her,
get her back to the University Bailie Hall where Dr. Daniels
treated her wounds, and fortunately she survived; whereas,
if Walter hadn't gotten her that night she probably would
not have.
We were overjoyed when we heard our husbands were coming,
and of course all of us waited in eagerness at the dock to
greet them. I had a shocking experience. The first man that
I saw get off and walk past me was my neighbor, Mr. Holroyd,
a six-foot-three, big strong man. He was white and tottering.
I said, "What has happened? How are you?"
And he said, "Oh, we've been through hell."
Well, I thought, "You mean to say a great big man like you
would go to pieces just because you had war experience?" I
had been through enough of them. I had seen Chinese heads
hanging by the dozens from telephone poles as I had come down,
and I had seen them in west China, and I didn't think that
there was anything a foreigner would see in China that should
make him go to pieces like that.
Then a little later, came the Dean of the r,chrxjl of
106
Mrs. L.: Agriculture and Forestry, Mr. Reisner, who was such a wonder
ful man, and who was Walter's chief who had gotten these famine
funds for the University to put on this famine prevention pro
gram. He came by wearing a lady's overcoat and my best velvet
hat. You see, all of their clothes had been stolen from them.
The Chinese came up again and again to demand more from them
in Bailie Hall, even taking the shoes off the little children's
feet.
These Communist Chinese soldiers had beheading knives, and
they were very fearsome and you gave them your clothes or any
thing else that they wanted. Then later, our Chinese friends
gathered up looted material to take to the shivering Americans.
So I saw my velvet hat and this lady's coat on Mr. Reisner,
and I thought, "This too is strange."
I rushed up to him, and he also was white and tottering.
So I said, "What has happened?"
And he said, "Walter's coming on the next small boat from
the destroyer to shore, and he'll tell you."
I had the inner assurance that my husband, who had been an
army officer and who I heard was the hero in the rescue of
these foreigners from inside Nanking, that he_ wouldn't be
overcome by anything the Chinese could do. When I saw him
coming, I rushed to him and was astonished to find him white
and tottering. I took his hand and led him over to a bench,
and said, "For heaven's sake, Walter, what has happened?
What is the matter with all of you men?"
Then he told me how he had done without food for three
days while he was hunting up the missing Americans and gather
ing them together, and of his trip down to the Yangtze to
prevent our Admiral from blowing up the city gates, as he had
threatened if the Chinese did not deliver the Americans to
the river bank by a given time. Walter had had practically
no food for three days.
Then finally, when this whole cavalcade that he had been
leading reached the destroyers and all were safe on the des
troyers, he had his first real meal in three days. This must
have been before the days of our pure food laws, for what they
were all given was spoiled meat from tin cans, so a I I of these
men had terrible cases of food or ptomaine poisoning.
Some of the men were taken directly on stretchers to hos
pitals. Walter should have gone too, but we realized we
could leave in five days. Walter had no possessions at all;
everything had been stolen. He didn't have another pair of ,
socks or a sweater or coat or hat or watch or glasses or
107
Mrs. L.: shaving kit or any of the numerous things a man must have.
So he kept staggering around to do the necessary things to
get off.
We were most thankful for Julian Arnold, our American com
mercial attache in Shanghai. He had already closed his beauti
ful home for the summer and sent his servants away, and his
family were already in Tsing tao and he was leaving. But he
knew Walter and John Reisner, and when he found out the des
perate situation, he returned, opened up his lovely big home,
called back his servants, and we stayed there for five days.
The Reisners and others stayed on for two weeks before
they could get ship passage. In our living room, that cream
camel's hair rug with the blue border came from Julian Arnold's
floor. He was good enough to sell that to me so that I would
have one Chinese rug from my whole household of rugs to take
back to the States. I thought that was lovely of him.
The Voyage Back to the United States
\
Mrs. L.: We got on this first boat and immediately started out into
one of the most terrific typhoons on record. It was not only
between China and Japan but followed along with us, or we
along with it, all the way from China to the Hawaiian Islands.
Our cabin was on the second deck above the machinery deck,
and yet waves would come entirely over the whole ship and
leave us, even at that level, in total darkness.
Walter estimated that the ship rose and fell sixty feet
with each wave and roll. I'm the seasick kind anyway and I
just die in a storm. Of course Walter was seasick too. Once
an enormous wave hit our ship with a bang; it must have gone
over the smokestacks. Our ship quivered down in darkness
under the great weight of water. I remember how Walter threw
himself back onto his bed, and said, "Well, if the ship goes
down, I'm not going to try to save either of you." Daughter]
WCL: How do you know I said this?
Mrs. L.: Oh, I remember it very well. I've always had a sense of
humor, and even in my seasickness that amused me. But this
time he was so seasick he could watch both his little son
and me die without trying to save either of us. [laughter]
So we landed in America utterly penniless, looted of every
thing, not a possession except what we had been able to secure
in those brief days in Shanghai to start life over again.
108
Mrs. L.: From Honolulu to San Francisco, the storm was still somewhat
raging, but it was not a typhoon.
Decision About the Future
Mrs. L.: Walter worried constantly. He said, "Here I am coming back
after five years, and now I've got to begin over again at
the bottom. I don't know whether they'll take me at the For
est Service; I don't know whether I can get a government job
again." And he stewed and stewed.
Finally I said, "Well, Walter, the Lord has taken care of
us this far. We can depend upon it that something will open
up." But he was very, very pessimistic.
Everybody all over the United States was interested in the
arrival of these first refugees that had been driven out of
China under fearsome circumstances. Suddenly, Walter found
himself being offered seven different, we 1 1 -pay ing jobs, a
number of them to be chief of various Forest Experiment Sta
tions, one back in Missoula and another down in the south
somewhere. He was offered other excellent jobs.
But now, our way of life was broken up so this we felt
was a turning point. Walter in China had decided that his
life work was to be the relation of peoples to their lands,
and what farmers can do to the good earth to make it unfit
for future habitation and growth of foodstuffs — in fact, it
is the determining factor in the rise and fall of civiliza
tions, as he had seen in China. We decided that now would be
the best time to get his Ph.D. and go ahead with these ero
sion studies that he had carried on for the past five years,
and continue scientifically to measure soil erosion and run
off and its relation to the depletion of soils.
Walter said, "Well, I'll leave it with you whether we
take a job and begin to live again, or whether we continue
for another period of extreme difficulty until I get my Ph.D."
Without any hesitation I said, "Now is the time for you to
get your Ph.D. Then after that we can go ahead in any kind
of life work that you choose to do."
We have never regretted that decision. Since then we've
had a wonderful ly fascinating time together. He had his work
in the United States, we have made studies in more than thirty
countries, and I've been with him in all of them except two —
Puerto Rico and Mexico. While I didn't go on Walter's second
109
Mrs. L.: trip to China, nevertheless I had formerly been into the edge
of Tibet when in west China, whereas Walter made his expedi
tion into Tibet from the northwest.
When we landed in on my people in Pasadena, I was ill, the
little son had measles and pneumonia, Walter had not recovered
from his ptomaine, and we were stunned and bewildered, but
thankful for the warm welcome from my family. My sister was
wonderful. She is a capable practical nurse, and she took
complete charge of the boy and probably sdved his life.
The family rallied behind us, and because of their loyalty
and willingness to share and cooperate, I lived there with
them for a year in Pasadena while Walter got his Ph.D. in
Berke ley.
VI STUDYING FOR THE DOCTORATE, 1927-1929
[Written questions and answers]
Decision to get a_ Ph. D_._
Chall: Mrs. Lowdermilk said in the material she taped about your re
turn from China that you decided to go back to school and get
your Ph. D. and delay, for a time, earning a living.
WCL: Yes. During the eighteen-day voyage home, I had worried about
having no position after being gone so long in China. However,
this was needless worry, for I was immediately offered seven
fine positions, all of which were tempting in our present fi
nancial state.
In China, I had wished I might continue my erosion studies
and get my doctorate. Now with this break in our lives, it
seemed this was the time to do it. The Forest Experiment Sta
tion, located in Giannini Hall on the University campus at
Berkeley, which collaborated with the University Agricultural
Department, offered me a fellowship with funds to set up ex
perimental installations on a more comprehensive scale than I
could do in China, to study factors in processes of runoff
and erosion.
I could use artificial rain over my plots, free from
vagaries of rainy or dry seasons. I could choose light or
heavy rains of any given duration as experiments required.
This appealed to me.
Experimentation on Runoff and Erosion Begi ns
Chall: How soon did you start work at the University Experiment Station?
WCL: In the summer of 1927, I registered at the University of Cali
fornia for my postgraduate study to lead to a doctorate. My
major was forestry. I took two minors, one in soil science and
the other in geo I ogv. ffy problem, as approved by my advisor,
Professor Arthur SjB^fiHy was entitled, Factors Effecting Surfi-
cial Runoff of Rain and Erosion of Soil Profiles. The problem
110
Ill
WCL: involved evaluation of factors which determine the division of
rain into runoff from soil surfaces and its infiltration into
soils and the consequent effects upon erosion of soil profiles.
Chal I : How did you begin this work?
WCL: Pretty much in the same general way as I made my studies in
China. First I began the task by reading all the material that
was available to me covering a period of more than one hundred
years. Later my intensive review of this literature was made
into a Bulletin as Part I I I of my thesis. I separated reports
of experimental studies from those that were merely observa
tional studies. I then evaluated these experimental studies
within the light of my experiments and with my new findings.
Chal I: Where did you develop the outdoor experiments?
WCL: The first Berkeley experiment was located on Oxford Street
Tract. It was designed as a Water Cycle Study, to differentiate
it from surficial runoff plots on slopes.
The most important finding of this experiment was the large
difference between the runoff from soils covered with natural
forest litter and runoff from soils where the litter had been
burned bare.
This comparison showed the very high percentage of rain as
runoff from plots burned bare of litter. These differences varied
from two to ten fold.
Dev i s i ng and Mai ntai ning the Soi I Tanks
Chal I: Did you use the plot method as you had done in China?
WCL: No, for here I designed tanks of galvanized iron, encased in
wooden frames. There were eight of them, with horizontal dimen
sions of two by five feet. They were built to provide for soils
two and one-half feet deep, with four inches of sand and gravel
on the bottom and with a surface slope of thirty percent. We
wanted soils used in these experiments to be uniform in their
characteristics of percolation.
Chal I: I understand you had a special method of filling the tanks
with soils. What types of soils did you decide upon?
112
WCL : Yes, I proposed to take up soil samples in shallow layers and
then to repack them in layers in their original order, in one-
to four-inch layers. I tamped them uniformly to their original
volume. I decided on three widely separated soil series for
samples.
(1) The Aiden soil series, a clay loam, was collected near
Placerville, California.
(2) The Holland series of fine sandy loam was collected
thirty miles east of Sonora.
(3) The Altamont series, a heavy clay loam from the
Berkeley hills.
These three widely separated soil samples represent typical
soil profiles covered with characteristic vegetation. They were
selected largely because of differences in rates of percolation
through them.
After the soils had been packed in tanks, forest litter or
mulch which had covered the soils in the state of nature was
placed on their respective surfaces. The soils wore then per
mitted to settle during the rainy season from November, 1927
to March, 1928. The experimental runs then were begun. We
had set up eight tanks in pairs, with litter or mulch on all
tanks. Then litter or mulch on tanks one, three, five and seven
was burned clean with a Hauk torch before the application of
rai n.
Artificial Rain
Chall: I am interested to know how you produced artificial rain.
WCL: Artificial rain was provided by means of two horizontal 1.0
inch pipes, fitted with special Skinner overhead sprinkling
nozzles, size 2. These nozzles were from fifteen to twenty
feet over the tanks and were spaced at two-foot intervals on
each pipe, so as to stagger jets of water, one foot apart, and
spread the fall of drops like rain. The angle of the line of
jets was adjusted to varying wind velocities. Berkeley hydrant
water was used under pressure of sixty pounds per square inch.
Chall: How was this rainfall measured scientifically?
113
WCL: I went into great detail about this in my thesis. But briefly,
my method of measuring artificial rainfall involved the setting
up of an installation for collecting the rain, natural and arti
ficial, in a battery of standard rain gauges and troughs along
the sides of soil tanks. This rain water was computed in equiva
lent depths of rainfall over the experimental installation to
permit the direct reading of water runoff and amount of percolation.
Chall: Did you have visitors coming to see these experiments?
WCL: Oh yes, this was quite a show place. Many Americans as well as
foreign scientists came to see these experiments in operation.
It made quite a hit to be able to read by the gauges just what
was happening. They could see how the percolated water through
the soil profile was collected in the layer of gravel and sand
on the bottom of the tanks and was conducted thence directly
into the percolation tank.
Chal I : Were you able to accomplish more in your experiments by using
artificial rain than you did with your plots in China?
WCL: Decidedly yes. It also shortened the time for securing data.
This artificial rain installation made it possible to:
(1) simulate rain in various amounts and at various Intervals,
(2) measure surficia! runoff from each tank,
(3) separate and measure material eroded by surficial runoff,
(4) measure percolated rain waters.
We could make reruns when and as we wished and imitate or dupli
cate any storm, including duration and intensity.
In our studies, we applied artificial rain in seven series
of ten rains of equal duration, totaling a depth of 198 inches
in six months. This was besides natural rains, which we allowed
to seep through before applying our artificial rain.
In all experiments, the surficial runoff from tanks in which
the litter had been burned was greater in every instance than
runoff from tanks with litter-covered surfaces. The most sig
nificant feature of the experiments was that litter continued
to function regardless of the duration or amount of rain.
The original experimental runs were completed in August,
1928. The installation was maintained throughout the following
year, and repeat runs were made in July and August of 1929, to
discover if further settling or other influences might change
the relationships discovered in the first series.
In all experiments, the forest litter or mulch served to
maintain the soils under them in a state of far greater
14
WCL: absorptive or infiltration capacity than the same soils which
had been burned bare of forest litter.
Soi I Tubes
Chall: Did you devise any other experiments to develop your erosion
theories?
WCL: Yes, and 1 believe the one I called The Clear Versus Muddy
Water Experiment, gave us the most important information. This
experiment was carried on in the laboratory. It was designed
to test relative rates of percolation of clear and muddy water
through columns in the absence of a litter cover. Four soil
tubes were filled and uniformly packed with the same soil samples.
Clear water was run through the four soil tubes for parts of seven
days to establish the percolating characteristics of each tube.
Then a muddy water suspension was prepared by stirring
samples of the same soil into water. Muddy water for the experi
ment was siphoned from the supply mixture containing soil parti
cles with diameters of .05mm and less, in accordance with Stokes
Law for the rate of fall of soil particles in a liquid. Only
silt and clay tractions were thus contained in the muddy water.
This muddy water was agitated by a paddle driven by an electric
motor to prevent settling in the supply container.
As soon as the muddy water was applied to tubes, the rate
of percolation diminished and within six hours the rate had
further fallen to less than one-tenth of the clear water rate.
We switched muddy water into the clear water tubes and clear
water into the muddy water tubes. Immediately the rate of per
colation diminished when muddy water was applied.
The decisive results of this experiment demonstrated that
muddy waters percolated at only a small fraction — one-tenth —
of the rate of clear water through the soil of the experiment
under otherwise similar conditions.
Thus we found that fine suspended particles were filtered
out at the soil surface, forming a thin layer of fine textured
material, which determined the rate of percolation quite inde
pendently of the percolation capacity of the soil column. The
differences in the rate of percolation due to the muddy condi
tion of water were sufficient to account for the major di f forf.-nco-.
in absorption discovered in the Berkeley tfjnk experiment I worko<]
115
WCL: almost day and night for nearly three weeks to complete this
series of experiments.
Thus the formation of a fine textured layer <jt the surface
of a bare soil, as a result of filtering out suspended particles
of soil from a percolating muddy water, is concluded to be the
decisive condition which increased the surficial runoff from
bared soil surfaces. This was a new concept of the function of
forest litter and is now being used generally by hydrologists.
Summary of Fi nd i ngs
Chall: Will you make a summary of your findings in these experiments?
WCL: Yes. We came to certain conclusions and published them in the
Journal of Forestry [April, I930D.
1. Forest litter in these experiments greatly reduced
surficial runoff particularly in the finer textured soils.
2. Destruction of the litter by fire, and consequent ex
posure of the bare soil, greatly increased the amount of eroded
material and reduced the rates of infiltration into the soil.
3. Suspended particles in runoff water from bare soils
were filtered out at the soil surface and to significant degrees
sealed the pores and openings to seepage into the soil suffi
ciently to account for the marked difference in the rates of
absorption between bare and litter-covered soils.
4. The capacity of forest litter to absorb rainfall is
insignificant in comparison to its ability to maintain the maxi
mum of percolating capacity of soil profiles, and is Important
in retardation of flood flows at their beginnings.
These findings of the Berkeley experiments appeared to
clear up some of the difficulties and discrepancies made ap
parent in my review of a voluminous literature. A statement
could now be made which more accurately described the role of
a mantle of vegetation and its natural mulch in water and ero
sion control .
116
Definition of Accelerated Erosion
Chall: I understand that you coined the expression "accelerated ero
sion." Will you explain what you mean by this?
WCL: The geologic norm of erosion is erosion that goes on no faster
than soil is formed. It is geologic erosion that carved out the
valleys and gave rise to many of the spectacular beauties of
nature. But "accelerated erosion" is where man or his agencies
have cleared and bared the soil of its natural cover of vegeta
tion, and set in motion erosion that goes on faster than soil
is formed. It is this rapid destruction of soil that is the
menace to nations and civilizations.
Rece i v i ng the Ph . D.
Chall: With the completion of studies in geology, soil science and
your experiments in runoff, were you granted your doctorate?
WCL: Yes, at the commencement exercises in June, 1929, I received
my Doctor's degree. But actually, this was only further de
velopment of my theoretical and practical studies in erosional
phenomena which continued at Strawberry Canyon installations,
at Bass Lake, and North Fork in the foothills of the Sierras,
and culminated in my big San Dimas venture which was at that
time the largest and most complete hydrologic study ever done.
It was here that our objective of experimentation was en
larged from influence of vegetative cover on erosion to the in
fluence of vegetative cover on the yield of water from water
sheds under different conditions of cover. This was vital to
Southern California where water is more valuable than gold and
they wanted to abstract the last drop of water possible from
their watersheds for domestic and agricultural uses.
Mrs. Lowdermilk and I were both relieved that my ventures
were proving successful and that we could again set up a per
manent home, this time in Berkeley.
STUDYING FOR THE DOCTORATE, 1927-1929
[Taped questions and answers]
Rev 1 ew of_ a_ Century of_ Literature
Chall: You have written quite extensively of the research work for
your doctorate. What about the review of literature on ero
sion which you spoke of the other day?
WCL: This review of literature was to be the third part of my thesis,
I describe these different experimental studies through the
previous century and evaluate them in the light of the discov
eries we made. And I wanted this to be a part of the thesis,
to give background so we would have a clearer understanding of
what we had really discovered or done.
1 had to summarize this material to satisfy the University
of California requirements, but I was never satisfied with it
myself. The original manuscript, which I entitled "Influence
of Forest Mulch and Litter on Surficial Runoff and Erosion,"
was publ ished in the Proceedings o_f_ the International Union p_f_
Forest Experiment Stations, in Sweden.
My thesis was first published there because I had a fight
here. I felt that my review of the literature showing where
these other honest investigators had missed the point, where
they had failed to get the full comprehension of what was in
volved, was important. But they said "no," they just wanted a
brief review. But I wanted my original manuscript to be pub
lished to include this.
Chall: So it was in Sweden that the complete thesis was published as
you had desired.
WCL: Yes.
Chall: What, briefly, were some' of the theories of the pioneers in
forest litter study?
WCL: For instance, in 1873, Gustave Wex, who was a flood-control
engineer on the Danube, had found as the drainage of the Danube
was cleared for cultivation, that floods supposedly increased,
while Becquerel, a French engineer, in 1878 said floods had
diminished. Wex came out with his conclusion that the diminu
tion of water in wells and streams occurring in forests in the
117
118
WCL: basin of the Danube could be ascribed to progressive clearing
of forests.
Then, an American named Hough was early interested in this
question and wrote a book that was published on the order of
Congress.
Chal 1 : Oh, when was this?
WCL: This was way back in the I870's. Hough claimed that as forest
areas were cleared and denuded, floods had increased. He re
ferred to what a Frenchman, Imbenaux, had said on this subject.
The Frenchman had referred to what Hough had said. It was very
amusing, that kind of criss-cross of evaluations.
The French engineer, Belgrand, didn't find any increase in
stages of frequency of floods on the Seine River as the result
of the clearing of the forests like that Gustav Wex thought he
had found in the clearing of forests in the drainage on the
Danube.
So Engler set up in Switzerland the Emmenthal experiment,
to clarify the confusion in this field. This was 1903-1917.
Then my findings began to be reported in the literature
and the mantle of Raphael Zon fell on my shoulders. That's why
my international reputation is based on hydrology. But out of
that has come this very detailed development of studies and ex
periments on the effect of forests on the stream flow and on
erosion.
The Berkeley Experiments
WCL: The whole problem of water and forests was set up in the Berkeley
experiment station, and in 1930 I was made project leader In
erosion stream-flow studies. These studies were financed by an
appropriation from Congress. Funds were divided two ways, one
part for agricultural or soil surveyors and the other to the For
est Service. The Forest Service supported my studies. I carried
on the Berkeley experiment and wrote many papers and reports on
my work.
Chal!: I have seen a copy of a paper entitled "Forest and Agricultural
Influences in Streamflow and Erosion Control— A Summary Review
of Literature up to 1930," which was published by the Department
119
Chal!: of Agriculture. Is this the same review of literature which
was summarized as Part I I I of your thesis?
WCL: Yes, it was.
Geology
Use of the Progressive Hypothesis
WCL: I continued my study in the geological aspect of erosion at the
University of California. My background in geology enabled me
to develop what I call my progressive hypothesis in field work.
We set out on the basis of what facts we have available, then
draw up a hypothesis. As new information is gathered, if it cor
roborates the first hypothesis, all the better; if it doesn't,
then we hunt for additional information. So our final hypothesis
is more nearly a solution than any former hypothesis.
It's really a geologic procedure in observational study.
That's why I put geology as a basic science, along with mathe
matics and physics and chemistry. The reason I do this is be
cause in chemistry and in physics we have a laboratory type of
study in which we control the variables. If we can control the
variables, good. Then we have a controlled experimental approach
to the problem.
Now when we come to the earth with its multiplicity of
physiographic processes, we cannot control these variables but
have to deal with a complex. So we separate these variables by
mathematical analysis and procedures. The method has been worked
out in the science of geology to a very refined degree.
Professor Louderback
WCL: Lcuderback was my professor here at the University of California
when I did my doctorate. I did two minors, big heavy minors.
One was soils, the other was geology. Of course, I'd had geology
before. But I took additional work in this minor under Louder-
back. He was one of the towers of strength in the field of
geology. Louderback was a past master in the progressive hypo
thesis, which geologists accept as their method.
120
WCL : We have, on the one hand, the experimental method of estab
lishing information, and on the other hand, the method of obser
vational studies, in which statistical treatment establishes the
trends within a series of variables. We have to recognize that
we are dealing with a complex. We set up a hypothesis which ex
plains as best one can the observations that have been made.
When this is not adequate, we continue the collection of perti
nent information.
Of course, we can combine the two methods, like we did at
Paricutin Volcano [Mexico], where we took samples of the vol
canic ash and measured its characteristics with laboratory tech
niques to answer certain questions.
Chall: This is the method you've always used?
WCL: That's right. Throughout my field notebook, I have written
down hypotheses that came to me at the time, on the basis of
field observations. It's an interesting record.
Chall: Yes, it would be. And to check back where you started and how
different your ideas might have been at the beginning from what
they are at the end.
Eva I uati ng Experimental Data for Thesis
Chall: Was your experimental data on the value of titter and mulch in
runoff and erosion quite a clear proof of the importance of
litter?
WCL: I took the data to a very famous biometrician, from Harvard.
He had been asked by the University of California to be avail
able to consult with the graduate students doing research on
the treatment of data, to get the most benefit by biometric
methods. I presented my material to him. He said, "Ah, well,
the more you have to use statistics in evaluating your studies,
the less sure you are of your results.'1 [laughter] I replied,
"Well, here's a man that can cast doubts on his own field; he's
one after my own heart — he's not afraid of anything."
Chall: And what did he feel about your statistics?
WCL: These were so decisive, he said, "You don't need to apply
these coefficients of reliability and all."
VII FOREST EXPERIMENT STATIONS AND SAN DIMAS, 1929-1933
[Written questions and answers]
Chall: What did you do after receiving your Ph. D. in June, 1929?
WCL: The Forest Experiment Station authorized me to establish centers
where various factors of the hydrologic cycle could be studied
and measured: precipitation, temperature, evaporation, runoff,
infiltration, percolation and transpiration.
Forest Experiment Centers
Chall: Where and when did you locate these centers?
WCL: The first one I had already established before 1929. This
was what we called a center for the study of forest influences
in stream flow and soil erosion. It was established in Straw
berry Canyon, immediately adjoining the University campus to the
east. Another large installation was located, shortly after I
completed my Ph. D., at North Fork, in the chaparral lands near
the headquarters of the Sierra National Forest.
Later we put in installations for experiments at Bass
Lake. These two were located in the foothills of the Sierras,
east of Fresno, California. These were subject to occasional
winter snows and provided new factors in our studies.
It was our plan to establish other experiments higher up
where precipitation fell principally as snow. I had just ar
ranged for a plane flight over the area, to locate suitable
places, but I was called to Washington for emergency work at
the beginning of the Franklin D. Roosevelt regime. I had
thought I would return to my San Dimas experiment, which I con
sider the most important of my California experiments. It has
also been the most publicized.
121
122
Developing the San Dimas Experiment
Chall: Why do you feel this San Dimas experiment was the most important?
WCL: Perhaps because this was the first big responsibility to which
I had been assigned after returning from China and joining the
Forest Service again. Ed Kotok, Director of the California For
est Experiment Station with headquarters on the campus at Berke
ley, appointed me Project Leader of Erosion and Stream-flow
Studies, after ! completed my doctorate. This was for Region
Five where I worked until I went to Washington.
In my doctorate studies, I had thoroughly gone over the
literature on several watershed experiments: (I) the Emmenthal
Watershed experiment by Engler that involved a comparison of be
havior of stream flow from two neighboring watersheds of similar
altitude and area which differed in type of vegetative covering;
(2) the Wagon Wheel Gap experiment, which was well done, and an
improvement over the Emmenthal experiment, but still was incom
plete; and (3) the Great Basin experiment, which also failed to
answer urgently required scientific data.
My staff and I sought to develop a program which would be
a larger and more thorough watershed study than had ever before
been undertaken. Director Ed Kotok gave us his approval in
June, 1932, for what became the San Dimas experiment.
Before we could obtain appropriations for such a large
scale watershed study as I envisaged, which would run over a
period of fifty years, it was necessary to develop our working
plan and send it to the Forest Service headquarters in Washing
ton. Here experts studied and appraised the plan to see if the
project justified the expenditure; and then It was presented to
Congress for an appropriation. Fortunately for us, it was
quickly approved.
Chall: Were there any restrictions placed on this big watershed study?
Spec! f ications
WCL: Yes. The area must be located in southern California with pre
dominately chaparral cover, (2) be on National Forest land,
thus protected from fire and free for continuity of study, (3)
permit the entire flow to be kept under complete observation u^>
well as flow from its several branch drainages, (4) be provided
with reservoir basins sufficient in capacity to catch and to
RS-CAL
1-1
I22a
Berkeley, Calif onria.
Re vised November 15, 1932
I. Project
II. Object
Watershed and water conservation study in the chaparral
region of California
To determine methods of management of chaparral forests
for maximum beneficial yield and conservation of water,
and for flood control.
(a) Reasons for the study
Studies of the role of non-commercial chaparral forests in water
supply and conservation are omitted from investigations of water resources
in the State-wide water plan (1930). Such studies are required to complete
information essential to enlightened management of watersheds. Practi
cally all water yielding mountain watersheds lie within exterior bounda
ries of national forests and the study becomes primarily a Federal
responsibility.
The critical condition of water supply in southern California fur
ther justifies such a study. The State Engineer reports that projects
planned and under way to increase water supplies for the south coastal
basins will cost in the aggregate the enormous sum of $350,000,000*00
(1930). Additional supplies may come from the following sources;
1. Salvage of local flood waters
2. Salvage of local evapo-transpiration losses.
3. Salvage of sewage waste
4. Importation of water from Mono Basin and Colorado River*
Effective increases by various means are estimated sufficient to
cover 2200 square miles one foot deep each year, or more than 1,400,000
acre feet. The salvage of local waters is estimated to comprise 20
per cent of this amount, or about 300,000 acre feet annually. Stored
water in this region has values for urban and irrigation use of from
$15 to $20 per acre foot. Salvaging of present losses from local sup
plies would have an annual value of 4 to 6 millions of dollars, which
represents a capitalized value of about 100 millions of dollars.
-1-
From: "Provisional Working Plan for Watershed and Water Conservation.
Study in the Chaparral Region of California," written by Walter C.
Lowdermi Ik, November 15, 1932.
123
WCL: hold both flood waters and sediments that might be caught and
impounded, (5) be of such size that it would provide a number
of sub-drainages each with a perennial flow, where it would be
possible to obtain data on stream-flow and sediment with a mini
mum of cost and effort, (6) be one with a minimum of man's for
mer activity or present occupancy, (7) have a minimum of water
diversion except at the control dam, (8) be supplemented with
a natural detrita! filled basin below the control dam, so that
replenishment and depletion of the basin could be measured as
a reflection of recharges from flow off the drainage area.
Locating the Watershed
Cha I I : This sounds like a difficult order. How did you go about
finding such a location?
WCL: First I went to the Forest Supervisor and Los Angeles flood
control engineers and the presidents of local water companies.
All these people concerned with water knew the southern Cali
fornia watersheds and the amounts of flow from each. After
consulting all these, I rented a plane and flew over all pros
pective suitable sites.
The San Dimas watershed seemed to fill all the previously
mentioned requirements among the twenty-two possible watershed
sites. Faults around the San Dimas watershed left it as if on
a pedestal, isolated from the San Gabriel and San Antonio can
yons.
Now with this location decided upon, I wanted to make a
close personal survey of the ground cover. Herb Oilman, a
grand fellow, and president of the San Dimas Water Company,
and one of the strongest and best informed on water problems
of this region, accompanied me on these ground investigations.
We found the chaparral cover so dense in places that we
either had to crawl under it, or if we were on steep slopes,
get on top of the branches and literally roll down the slope
to where we could find open footing. Our shirts were torn to
shreds and we were covered with scratches— but we were thus intro
duced to our new thi rteen-thousand-acre watershed experimental
area.
Herb Gilman had a wonderful sense of humor. I must relate
one instance. A disgruntled citrus grower was going to the^
water company office to complain that they had cut off his i r-
riqation water before he had received his allotment. He met
Herb Gilman, who said, "What is the trouble? You look
124
WCL: disgruntled." The man explained his indignation. Herb Oilman
said, "Yes, a man has to look after his own interests. Do you
know what they are doing now?"
The man said, "No, what are they doing?" Herb Gilman replied,
"They are di luting the water."
The man was still more belligerent — then suddenly realized
that he had gulped down Herb's ludicrous statement.
Chal I : Now that you had located your watershed, how did you begin?
WCL: Our project required us to put on a big construction program.
We had to have dams, buildings, laboratories, offices, living
quarters for permanent staff and stables for horses, because
distant rain gauge readings were done on horseback. Heretofore,
the Forest Service had prescribed pre-fab box-like buildings.
These were ugly, stereotyped, without thought of suiting them
to topography or the function they were to serve.
A New Design for Forest Service Buildings
.: At this time the depression was blighting the country. Men were
unemployed and the government appropriated large funds for pro
jects where numbers of men could be put to work. I knew of a
very fine combined architect and contractor named Williams, who
was so eager to keep himself and some of his men at work that
he was willing to do the work of an architect at regular car
penters' wages. I made floor plans for what we needed in build
ings and had him design these buildings and fit them artisti
cally into the landscape.
Then I went to San Francisco to the Region Five headquar
ters of the U.S. Forest Service. I dealt with Mr. Barrett,
Chief of Lands. He was in charge of pre-fab structures on re
quest of field staffs for housing units. I presented our
special needs, but he was adamant in insisting that I choose
from among the five standardized types of buildings. I asked
him how long it would take to get these from him. He said there
was a big backlog and it would probably take between six months
and a year.
Chal 1 : Did this refusal discourage you?
WCL: No, for I had an ace card to play. I opened out my plans and
said, "Here are my fully developed plans. They are ready to
put men to work tomorrow. If you continue to insist thot I
use these poorly adapted, unsuitable pre-fabs, you will hinder
125
WCL: my project and stop employment of large numbers of men needing
immediate assistance."
Government orders had gone out to put men to work, so
finally precedent and red tape were scrapped and we were told,
"Go ahead."
Chall: This must have given you great satisfaction.
WCL: Yes, and the satisfaction did not stop here. The buildings
went up, they were beautiful; they fitted into the mountain
canyon landscape, each building was different, each suited the
purpose required.
The Chief of the Forest Service, Mr. Silcox, heard of this
and came out to see it, and he was pleased. Then M. L. Wilson
from the Agricultural Extension Service came, and he was pleased.
Then Henry Wallace, Secretary of Agriculture, came and he was
pleased; and hundreds of others came to see this new San Dimas
Watershed experimental area. There were bunk houses and facili
ties so that rather large forestry conferences were held there.
They built a guest house which became my headquarters.
Chall: I imagine after seeing your setup in San Dimas, it would be
hard to go back to the former pre-fab houses.
WCL: Well, as the result of my getting the fine buildings which gave
the atmosphere of things well done, others claimed the same right,
Soon the new range experiment station in the foothills of the
Sierras was building a simple but beautiful tamped earth head
quarters that was appropriate for the region, fully suitable for
their requirements. And so it went. Numerous ones said they
never ceased to bless me for fighting it out and getting Forest
Service housing improved.
Chall: What else besides new type Forest Service housing did San
Dimas have to show?
Experiments
WCL: There were many things. We were a beehive of activity all over
the thi rteen-thousand-acre hydrologic experimental area. Con
struction was everywhere. Surveys established two sets of trip
licate watersheds, one at a two-thousand-foot altitude at Tun
Bark headquarters, and another at Fern Canyon, 5,:>00 feet above
sea level .
We set up two hundred standard rain gauges and fifty
126
WCL: recording rain gauges whereby we measured the amount of rain
fall and its intensities. This project alone required contour
trails one thousand feet apart in elevation, a total of two
hundred miles of roads and trails along which we placed our
recording instruments. This enabled us to locate rain gauges
in the bottoms of the canyons as well as on the ridges.
All units of the watershed were equipped with elaborate
setups in which electric signals permitted us to record into
the central instrument room at headquarters, hydrologic phenomena
that were going on in a storm.
Also we set up at headquarters, a soils laboratory with all
the latest equipment for determining the characteristics of
soils — water holding capacity — and for measuring moisture con
tent in place. We set up twenty-six lycimiters to determine
the amount of transpiration and evaporation from sample plant
ings of native vegetation.
Then too, we had six dams under construction all at the
same time, with installations to measure runoff, base flow and
storm flow in various sub-watersheds. We had devices to cap
ture and measure erosional detritis that was moved off slopes
of the watershed. These enabled us to regulate storm runoff
and to pass it on to the San Dimas flood control reservoir, and
from thence into the Puddingstone reservoir, from which Herb
Oilman recharged his ground water basin so as to prevent any
water from escaping to the ocean.
Recharging Ground Waters
Chall: What do you mean by recharging ground waters?
WCL: People are only beginning to realize how important it is to
recharge underground water aquifers when irrigation depends on
pumped water. Irrigation demands have often caused over-pumping
of stored ground waters, as happened in the San Dimas citrus
growing basin.
At first, artesian water flowed from seeps and was ditched
off for irrigation. Then as the water table dropped, small
centrifugal pumps were used. When they had to pump from eighty-
five feet, deep well pumps had to be used. Year by year this
underground table sank lower and lower until the water company
was pumping irrigation water from 461 feet.
They realized they were hitting the bottom of the natural
underground water storage of the basin. Unless some miracle
127
WCL: happened, these valuable citrus groves would again revert to
desert.
Chal I : This must have been alarming. What did they do about it?
WCL: Herb Gi Iman, with all of us cooperating, set out to keep every
drop of rain that fell locally and on the watershed, and began
to refill this underground aquifer. Year after year, the water
table rose until now the level is maintained at about eighty-
five feet, where they began deep well pumping years ago. What
ever water is pumped out during dry season irrigation is re
placed by winter rains when irrigation ceases.
Chall: How is this recharging done?
WCL: In San Dimas we used two methods. Our first was by spreading
the water over a large, level, gravelly basin below Big Dalton
dam, to settle out silt and let clear water sink and percolate
by gravity underground, without evaporation losses, into the
San Dimas basin.
Our second step was the regulation of storm runoff into
the San Dimas reservoir, which was for flood control only and
had to be kept empty to take care of emergency storms. So these
waters were released into the Puddingstone reservoir by gravity
for de-silting. From here, waters were poured directly back
into the depleted wells, ready for being pumped out for irri
gation during the next dry season.
It was this experience that led me to advise the Israelis
how to pour back winter flood waters into their wells or to
sink it and thus replenish over-pumped irrigation wells during
summer months. Some wells were being threatened near the sea
by invasion of salt waters from the Mediterranean.
Fire of I960
WCL: Besides all the construction of trails, roads, dams, buildings
and installations I mentioned before, we built a combined swim
ming pool and emergency water reservoir. Incidentally, in the
terrible fire of I960 when our watersheds all burned over, this
reserve water reservoir and the brave men who stayed on to hold
back the fire after being told to flee for their lives, saved
all our fine buildings from destruction. A man named "Scotty1'
was the hero. For years he had kept his pump in order for just
this emergency and it was in perfect condition.
128
Using the C.C.C.
Chall: How did you find men to do this enormous amount of construction
going on at Tan Bark Flat headquarters and in the watershed?
WCL: Well, we were in a desperate depression. The government was
eager to have all agencies put men to work. To accelerate this,
the government had organized the Civilian Conservation Corps,
or C.C.C. Camps, composed of tens of thousands of boys who had
been forced to quit school and who were unable to find work.
They left home in great numbers, mainly to keep from being a
burden on their parents, and they roamed the highways and bummed
rides on railroads.
We requested from the government, and received, two camps
of two hundred boys each, and with these four hundred young men
swarming all over the place, we really began to accomplish things
The government furnished technical supervisors to direct the
C.C.C. boys.
Chall: Your scientific setup and resulting data, which was designed to
run over a period of fifty years, have been described and pub
lished, but how about the men who worked with you?
Colleagues in San Dimas
WCL: Although San Dimas is in southern California, our general head
quarters were in Berkeley at the Forest Experiment Station in
Gianinni Hall on the campus. We had excellent relations and
cooperation from headquarters with Ed Kotok as Director. There
was a fine esprit de corps among the entire working organization.
My engineers were of the best: John S. Cotton later became
a famous consulting engineer; Dov Krimgold, a hydrologist, was
later a consultant to the United Nations; Sundling was conscien
tious, dependable and hard working; Hamilton did a fine job in
charge of meteorological measurements; and Percy Ftowe did a f i ne
job in measuring stream flow and ground water. Earnest Coleman
was a brilliant man, with his doctorate in watershed management,
Storey was our expert soils man, and W. Garska our capable
geologi st.
Then I had excellent engineers from Purdue University who
were overseers of the C.C.C. boys. I remember how highly skilled
some of these country boys from Kentucky we-e in rock drilling.
They had their own local methods but they were very efficient.
129
WCL: The architect-carpenter, Williams, whom I first called in and
who gave floor plans of buildings suitable for our needs, was
the overall boss carpenter with whom all associations were pleas
ant.
Don Sinclair was my local director for the San Dimas Center
for erosion and streamflow studies. He was steady, hard-working
and very cooperative and loyal. So you can see we all had a
good time working together on a project of this magnitude.
Chall: Were all your men interested in the purpose of the over-all pro
ject, or mainly devoted to their individual responsibilities?
WCL: If they were not interested in the work, they did not last long.
We all realized that southern California was alarmed about her
increasing population and the prospect of limited water supplies.
To import water from the Colorado or from the north was more
expensive and of inferior quality to rainwaters from the water
sheds of southern California.
For some years, I had come to realize that water, as a prod
uct of the mountains, was the state's most valuable crop, that
it was more valuable to California than timber, important as that
is, and that for southern California, local water supplies were
more valuable than gold. It was our job to find out how maximum
supplies of this most precious of all minerals could be caught,
held, and stored to be used beneficially, so that not a drop
would flow away and waste in the ocean.
We also wanted to know whether the yield would be greater
from the steep mountain slopes when covered with vegetation or
burned bare, so that rainwater would flow off as from a roof,
without transpiration losses from vegetation. This battle of
"to burn or not to burn" was raging back and forth with heated
discussions. I am sure that all my men had my over-all objec
tives in mind and they worked hard to establish the scientific
truths called for in this program. We all recognized we were
pioneering in new discoveries.
Edward Kotok
Chall: Dr. Lowdermilk, we have done an oral history with Mr. Kotok.
Since you worked with him in the early stages of his career,
could you tell me how you would evaluate him as a worker in
the Forest Service?
WCL: Ed Kotok was the recognized specialist on forest fires and their
control in the United States. He was a hard worker, a good
130
WCL: organizer and, while I would not say he was a scholar, he was a
very intelligent man. He gave his men considerable freedom to
go ahead and develop their own projects. He never hampered me
in going ahead with my projects as I envisioned them.
However, among the leaders of various divisions In the Ex
periment Stations, there seemed to be a general feeling that Kotok
took the credit for works done by Experiment Station workers and
did not give his men due credit individually. But this was not
overly important.
The Depress ion
Chal ! : Apparently, the depression helped you to do big things at San
Dimas besides relieving unemployment. But how were people
general ly affected?
WCL: Almost everyone was thrown for a loop. Immediately after the
crash, all salaries throughout the United States Government
were cut fifteen percent. Budgets were geared to former in
comes and now payments could not be met. This caused businesses
as well as individuals to tumble into bankruptcy. Taxes could
not be paid — fine properties were sold just for tax delinquency.
For one terrifying time, banks were closed. No money was to be
had except by those who had cash in their bank deposit boxes.
Consternation overwhelmed the people. How could this
happen to a rich nation? People of wealth were suddenly poor
people. As an example, Mrs. Bowles, who was donating Bowles
Hall to the University, had borrowed cash from the bank, using
stocks as security. Suddenly the value of her stocks dropped
to almost nothing. The bank demanded cash repayment of the loan
above the value of her stocks. That wiped her out completely,
and the University, to whom she was donating the beautiful large
building, had to come to her rescue, finish the building and
take care of her besides.
Some of our friends in Berkeley had similar experiences.
They lost the value of their stocks. They were indebted to the
bank for loans received on stocks as security and lost their
homes besides.
Chal I: Were people stunned when money was not available7 How could
they I i ve?
131
WCL: Well, you could hardly call it living. I knew numbers of cap
able, college-trained men who walked the streets ringing door
bells, willing and offering to work for twenty-five cents an hour,
so as to take home a little food for their families. There was
a desperate clamor to sell apples, or anything, on street corners
to make a few cents. People used up all their reserve savings.
Those who still had jobs cheerfully accepted cuts in salaries
so as to continue at work.
Cha I I : Apparently you all took very seriously the responsibility of
putting unemployed men to work?
WCL: Yes indeed. When I began the soil erosion work first in Ari
zona in 1934, we had to do rush jobs on inadequate plans. I
remember sitting up in bed, sick with flu and a high fever,
phoning to every hardware store in Phoenix, to buy shovels,
picks, wheelbarrows, quantities of wire and steel posts to
make check-dams and the like, so as to put sixteen hundred men
to work Monday morning at Safford, thirty miles away; and this
was Friday. If I failed, sixteen hundred men and their families
would be heartsick. But I did not fail.
We all felt the heavy responsibility to put men to work re
gardless of personal difficulties. I put a capable man by the
name of Flemming, an irrigation engineer, in charge, assisted
by five men from the state engineer's office, and sent them with
their transits on ahead to Stafford to make plans and stake out
work for the sixteen hundred men for Monday morning. We were
ready for them!
Bu i I d i ng the Fami ly Home
Chall: Why have you and Mrs. Lowdermilk, who have lived in many coun
tries, always considered Berkeley your permanent home?
WCL: There's a story back of the reason. When I was here sludying
for my doctor's degree, I wrote my wife that I felt Berkeley
was more like my home town than any place I had ever lived, and
that I wanted to live and die in Berkeley.
We had been rudely kicked out of China by Russian-trained
Chinese Communists, and we needed a feeling of stability and of
establishing ourselves. My wife is a go-getter and nothing i -..
impossible to her if she sets out with determination to do it.
When she arrived from Pasadena, there were still some beautiful
132
WCL: view lots. She set her heart on the finest of all—a view lot
just five blocks north of the campus known as "The Look-out
Po i nt . "
We had been wiped out by the Communists, my salary had been
cut fifteen percent during the depression and now we had two
small children. We had nothing to start on but fdith, hope and
confidence that somehow we could realize our dream home in
Berkeley.
1 drew the floor plans, my wife won over some relatives to
loan us money with no security but our word. She ordered shipped
from China, rugs and carved chests and tables to sell and thus
use to advantage the Chinese money Chiang Kai-shek had paid us in
part for our losses in the Nanking Incident.
This enabled us to buy the lot directly from the owner with
out real estate fees. The Acacia Life Insurance gave us the
last house building loan in the Bay Region during the depression,
before they shut down on all loans as other companies had already
done.
We secured a very fine architect and contractor combined,
Walter Broderick, who was anxious to keep his men employed, to
build the house for us at cost plus six percent. He was honest
and worked for our advantage, and before long, we had our dream
home in Berkeley with glorious views of almost the entire Bay.
Except for depression prices and wages, we never could have
built this home — and it is not for sale.
Chall: How long did you live in this home before going to Washington?
WCL: That's the sad part of it. We only had a year or so to enjoy
it. Then I left, but my wife and two little ones stayed on for
another year because at that time, we thought the Washington
position might be only temporary and an emergency measure. Then
we rented the house and went to Washington for fifteen years;
and then more years under the United Nations and Food and Agri
cultural Organization and as a consultant to other nations.
But this home was our morale builder, and we always hoped
that sooner or later, we would return to Berkeley, our home town,
to live in our dream home. Now finally, we are enjoying "the
last of life for which the first was made."
133
Appointment to the Soi 1 Erosion Service
Chall: How did your appointment to the Soil Erosion Service come about?
WCL: Actually it was the result of a chance meeting wifh Rexford
Tugwel I . He was then Undersecretary of Agriculture, and al
though he was not an agriculturalist, he was a keen student of
all aspects of industrial and economic development. He recog
nized the menace of soil erosion to our nation's economy and
became a strong advocate of using unemployed manpower 1o carry
out projects on a large scale throughout the country.
Meeting Rexford Tugwel I
Chall: How did you meet Dr. Tugwel I?
WCL: In an interesting way. My good friend, Knowles Ryerson, was
introducing legumes, shrubs and grasses into the United States
from other countries and testing them out at Plant Introduction
Gardens, one of them at Chico, California.
Ever since my China days, I had wished there might be an
international setup with plant introduction gardens in South
Africa, China and the United States, to cooperate on sharing
legumes, especially those suitable for healing erosion gullies
and soils damaged by sheet erosion or wind erosion. I had
worked out this International Exchange Program and was ready to
set it up as a project in I933 when I met Tugwel I.
Ryerson telegraphed me that Dr. Tugwel I would visit the
Chico station on Sunday and asked if I would join them. I put
in my pocket the working plan of this project. I showed it to
Dr. Tugwel I and he asked if I had another copy. I said, "Yes,
take this one."
Chall: Did you have much time with Dr. Tugwel I?
WCL: Yes, for he wanted to see my Berkeley and San Dimas projects,
so I had several days. We discussed the whole problem of soil
erosion and what could be done about it. We discussed my China
experiences and my conclusions that uncontrolled soil erosion
on sloping lands is as disastrous to a civilization as an ad
verse change of climate, and my conclusion that it was not an
adverse change of climate that had brought on the decline of
northwest China, but that it was due to the destruction caused
by men and erosion. I explained that it was in China I coined
134
WCL: the expression "man-made deserts" and the term "accelerated
erosion," which I explained was a rapid man-induced erosion as
against the geologic norm of erosion which goes on no faster
than soil is formed. He was keenly interested.
Tugwell Sends Lowdermilk to Washington
Chall: You and Dr. Tugwell seemed to have much in common. Were you
able to continue your friendship?
WCL: Well, this brief time I spent with Rexford Tugwell caused a
turning point in my life. I was told that the last day we
spent together, President Roosevelt called Tugwell on the tele
phone to discuss the appointment of Mr. Bennett for the Chief
of the new Soil Erosion Service in process of formation. Dr.
Tugwell replied to Roosevelt that he would agree only if this
man Lowdermilk, with whom he had just spent several days, was
appointed as Associate Chief.
So it was in this way that I, a westerner, unknown to
Washington circles, was called to leave my San Dimas project
immediately, and go to Washington to become a national leader
in soil and water conservation. This was in September, 1933.
Chall: So this is how you came to give up your work which was advanc
ing successfully and your new home in Berkeley. How did you
feel about this change in your life?
WCL: Actually I felt quite overwhelmed and humble. 1 hated to give
up my work in California, but to me it was a great challenge
to go where national policies were being formulated and have a
part in working out programs and policies for safeguarding our
soil and water resources on a national basis.
My experiences with famines in China made me realize how
a civilization can be undermined by the destructive forces of
erosion by wind and by water, and this menace, with its threats,
was well advanced in our own country. I wanted to contribute
what I could to save our remaining good lands.
Chall: Were you able to close up your work quickly?
WCL: First, I had to go to my director, Ed Kotok, and report to him.
Apparently he was not happy to make my transfer; but there was
little he could say or do, for the request had come from Wash
ington. I reported on the status of my works in erosion stream-
flow projects in Region Five. I felt that each man had his
special work well in hand and could go ahead with little
WCL: interruption.
At this time it was thought that this was an emergency call
east, and that I was on loan from the Forest Service Experiment
Station for a limited period. For this new work was financed by
emergency funds that had been voted for the President and were
released by him when and where they were most needed. All seemed
to indicate that this was an emergency and temporary arrangement.
Reunions at San Dimas
Chall: On your many inspection trips around the country for the Soil
Conservation Service, did you go back some times to see how
your San Dimas project was progressing?
WCL: Yes indeed. We had always been a happy family there and all my
men were eager to show me what they had been doing and have me
look over the new data. There was one such reunion I shall
never forget. I had notified the San Dimas staff that my wife
and I would be there on a certain day. What a surprise they
gave us.
The other men — engineers, specialists in various fields,
Don Sinclair, the director, and Dr. Robert Knapp and Dr. Vito
Vanoni from the Ca I Tech Lab — that were cooperating with us,
prepared a big picnic dinner in the staff headquarters. They
had baked an enormous twenty-six-pound turkey and stacked the
plates beside it. All the men seemed horrified at the thought
of carving it. But I rather like to carve furkey, and I aston
ished the group by saying that I would be happy to do it and
rose, took off my coat, brandished the carving knife and shar
pener together and set to work. Soon plates of dressing and
turkey were being passed down each side of the long table. The
fine esprit de corps of those early years was mos1 enjoyable.
A I I through the years, I have kept up rny association with
the Forest Service, and after retirement, with the various Soil
Conservation projects. The friendship among most of the per
sonnel has been cordial. It is sad now to find so many of them
slipping away from us, leaving a lonely feeling.
VIII THE YEARS IN WASHINGTON, 1933-1947
[Written questions and answers]
Part I The Soil Erosion Service, 1933-1935
Arrival _i_n_ Washi ngton
Cha II : Did your family go east with you at this time?
WCL : No. I left my wife and two small children .alone in our new
Berkeley home, packed a couple of suitcases and spent five
nights and four days on the train. (Very different from the
five-hour journey now by jet.) I remember I did not allow myself
to visit with strangers, but used this time to meditate on pos-
sibilities ahead. For here was the opportunity of an Age, to
get something constructive done — with long range benefits for
my own country.
I arrived in Washington and installed myself at the Cosmos
Club which was to be my home for many months, and then walked
over to the Winder Building a few blocks away to report to Hugh
Bennett. He had already gathered around himself in this new
Soil Erosion Service his old cronies from the Bureau of Soils
with whom he had worked for years. It was understandable that
he would be cool to the arrival of practically an unknown wes
terner who had been appointed as Associate Chief without consul
tation with him. He did not offer to shake hands.
Chall: Was this the first time that you had met Bennett?
WCL: No, for shortly after my return from China to the United States,
a meeting was called in Washington, D.C., on the subject of soil
erosion. Professor Charles Shaw, of the University of Cali
fornia, who was on my doctorate committee and with whom I had
many discussions on my work in China, urged me to send in a
paper.
1 sent in my summary, but did not have time to prepare the
entire paper. So Bennett knew something of my work and when he
came west, I had him to my home to lunch. Charles Shaw and 1
took him to see some striking examples of gully cutouts of al
luvial valley floors in the vicinity of Lebek in southern
Ca I i fornia.
136
137
WCL: In this field conference, Bennett said little, but called
on me to describe my findings in the enormous expanse of gully
erosion in the wind-laid loess lands of northwest China, which
is the most stupendous development of accelerated or man-induced
soil erosion in the world. 1 insisted that we must measure, ex
perimentally, the damages done by this "accelerated erosion."
I told Bennett we must establish the scientific basis for
this control of storm runoff and of soil erosion, as I had been
doing in China and had carried on in the transfer of my erosion
studies from China to California. This contact was several years
prior to my call to Washington.
Activity at_ Headquarters
Chall: What were your headquarters in Washington like then?
WCL: They were in the Winder Building, which was an old brick build
ing, painted white. We began with one entire floor of ten rooms,
but soon expanded to two floors. All was confusion and life was
hectic. We had little furniture at first and had to use boxes
for tables and desks and sometimes for chairs, as we gradually
accumulated furniture. Workmen were carrying desks, equipment,
boxes, putting up shelves and the 1 i ke, i n the midst of our at
tempts to do our work.
Adding to this confusion, there was a constant stream of
visitors who had heard of the new Erosion Service being organized.
Some came to apply for jobs while others wanted to tell us what
they thought we ought to do.
Our clerical help was green except for a few older secre
taries, so it was necessary to create a "pool" to which we applied
for a girl to take dictation. Most had recently graduated from
business college and had little experience. It was unsatisfactory
to have a different girl for each dictation, so we were each ap
pointed personal secretaries.
I shall never forget my first one. She was a young thinq
from North Carolina with a slow Southern drawl, and had probably
never done a day's work in her life. Her inability to spell far
exceeded her excessive drawl. When I dictated letters and she
brought them to me to sign, there was no similarHy between the
letter dictated and the letter she created. We apparently were
not meant for each other and I sent her back to the pool .
138
Chall: This new Erosion Service was in the Department of the Interior?
WCL: Yes. One of the first things I did was to get acquainted with
the Department of Interior staff so that our operations would
be carried out in accordance with their procedures. Most of the
subordinates treated us as an emergency organization and reflected
it in their services. But Secretary I ekes was especially Inter
ested in us and wanted to develop our work as rapidly as pos
sible, for we understood that it was his ambition fo create a
Department of Conservation of Natural Resources.
I would like to say here that from the first, I was opposed
to the name "Soil Erosion Service," as if we were an organization
to assist erosion, whereas our entire purpose was to control it
and to conserve soils. From the first, I advocated that our
name be changed to "Soil Conservation Service," which was later
done.
Hi r i ng Personnel
Chall: With such a rapidly growing organization, how did you find men
to f i II all the various positions?
WCL: Well, generally men came to us to apply, for you remember that
we were in a depression and many technical men were also out of
work. We had no personnel officer so I took on the duties of
this branch of service to meet the emergency period. But as
soon as I found a man capable of doing this kind of work, we
recommended his appointment, for all of these special appoint
ments had to be made by I ekes. Most technical applicants were
turned over to me for interviewing.
One of my special duties was to think out ano to set various
projects going, and then find a man capable of carrying on such
duties. We then recommended his appointment and lurned over
these responsibilities to the appointee.
Chall: Tell us about how you went about this part of your new work?
Sedimentation Study
WCL: For instance, one of the men who applied was a man named Henry
139
WCL: M. Eakin, of the Army Corps of Engineers, who had made studies
in river sediments. He was capable, thorough and a hard worker.
I had been concerned with the rapid filling of our reservoirs
with sediments, for my experiences in China, where I saw the
silting of irrigation works and the Yellow River channel, made
me realize that erosion was capable of progressively destroying
the water storage capacity of reservoirs until they were use
less. In fact, this had already taken place in our country,
especially in our southern states.
I personally took up with Ickes the appointment of Eakin.
I explained to him our great need to measure the amount of silt
in reservoirs, to estimate the life span of reservoirs at their
present rates of filling, and the amounts of sediments captured
behind dams. I suggested to Mr. Ickes that we needed a "corpus
delicti," to account for the body of the erosion going on so
rapidly and to a great extent across our country.
Secretary Ickes approved this special study and allocated
funds so that I was able to give Eakin the position he had
dreamed about for years. Eakin gathered together a fine staff
and did a magnificent survey. His bulletin on sedimentation of
reservoirs became our authority for the country. Among other
things, he developed a "wear flume" to determine how rapidly
sediments would wear down to smaller particles.
Eakin was so happy in his work and he worked so relentlessly
that he died of a heart attack. This was a big blow to our or
ganization, but he had already contributed much new scientific
data.
Chal I: Were there other such works that you set up and for which you
found the men to do the job?
Aerial Mapping
WCL: Yes. I am sure I was among the first to undertake aerial map
ping for land-use studies. As you remember, I used army planes
to make my surveys over the mountains of southern California
watersheds to locate San Dimas from among twenty-two possible
sites. That was a small undertaking, but it gave me confidence
that this method would be the quickest and the cheapest to do
the extensive mapping of large areas of 200,000 1o 500,000 acres
that we wanted to use for demonstration projects in various ports
of the country.
This task was turned over to me. I found th.at the Fair-
child Aerial Survey Company set very high standards for their
140
WCL : work which they had been doing for mining companies. I knew
Mr. Elial, who was at heart a research scientist, and very able.
He specialized in making topographical maps from aerial photo
graphs. I saw the accuracy of their work in a second running
of a contour line with only minute variations.
I determined that Fairchild should do this important map
ping for us, and though we had to ask for bids, other companies
had to come up to Fairchild's high standards in order for their
work to be accepted by us. It was this large-scale serial mapping
of the Soil Erosion Service at that time that gave? rise to a
number of reliable companies in this line of work.
A task of this magnitude, of course, required a special
appropriation. We had to justify the heavy expenditures re
quired to Ickes' finance officer. If he agreed, he would rec
ommend to Ickes that he ask Roosevelt for a lump sum from
emergency funds.
Chall: Did Ickes' budget officer agree to this new type of heavy ex
penditure?
WCL: Not at first, and for a time I feared he was going to turn me
down. Then I said, "Just think what it would mean to have a
photographic map of these badly eroded areas today as they were
fifty years ago. Just think what it will mean fifty years from
now for the government to know by photographic maps the condi
tion of our lands today. Think what it will mean to have aerial
topographic maps of Lake Mead, which is just now beginning to
fill, and be able to determine the rate and amount of sediment-:
that are accumulating in Lake Mead behind Hoover Dam."
After this, there was no further discussion, and he agreed
to request Ickes to include this expenditure for aerial photo
graphic maps when he asked President Roosevelt for another al
location of emergency funds. Money was soon made available.
Chall: This sounds like a tremendous undertaking. Did you try to
develop this along with your other work?
WCL: No, for it has always been my purpose to set up projects and
then find the right man for the job to carry on. In this case,
it was a fine, ambitious young man named Charles Collier. I
encouraged Charles to help develop a photogrammetic section of
the service to prepare enlarged photographic prints for field
mapping. This section was also called on to make mosaic maps
of drainage basins which were being set up as demonstration
projects of integrated soil and water conservation while under
cropping.
The aerial photographs were taken to a scale of two and
141
WCL: one-half inches to the mile. These were used for mosaic maps,
whereas the prints for field maps were enlarged usually to a
scale of twelve inches to a mile. On such maps we were able to
locate ourselves within ten feet on the ground, they were used
as field maps by our soil scientists.
To provide maps of this accuracy by former surveying methods
would have required years of work and at prohibitive costs, and
we had no time to waste in our work for controlling wind, wafer
and soi I erosion.
Field Work
Chall: Could you always carry out these projects from your Washington
office, or did you make trips to investigate new projects:1
WCL: Of course during the early organisation days, I had to be in
Washington for there was much pressure in our work. But soon
there were demands to look into projects in other parts of the
country .
Navajo Indian Reservation
WCL: One of my first trips was to the Navajo Indian reservation in
Arizona and New Mexico. When the Indian wars were over, the
Navajo population of about five thousand was placed on a reser
vation of inhospitable lands. Grazing was good in rainy seasons,
Generally, squaw corn, planted several seeds to the hole and
widely spaced, provided mature corn.
But living for the Navajos and their herds was hard at
best. As populations increased, it was necessary to increase
their herds. These in turn overgrazed the land and erosion set
in and gouged deep gullies through the few alluvial valleys.
This lowered the water table and dried up the grass.
No one paid much attention to the Indians. They were
governed from Washington by a political appointee as Commis
sioner for Indian Affairs.
Then a drought came. I was called out to the reservation
to look over the situation and see what could be done. The
142
WCL: former five thousand population had increased to fifty thousand.
Their herds had increased accordingly. There was no grass, the
herds were dying and the Indians were starving. They had no place
to go and they were not allowed to leave the reservation. The
overgrazed lands were riddled with gullies. Outside help was
desperately needed.
At this time, Mr. Collier, Sr. was Commissioner of the Bu
reau of Indian Affairs. He had ordered the Indians to kill off
many of their herds. The Indians were angered and would not allow
him on the reservation. He was under attack from many quarters
and was glad to have the new Soil Erosion Service take immediate
action in controlling erosion and rejuvenating the: depleted Indian
lands, on an experimental area at Mexican Springs. This diverged
the attention and anger of the Indians from him to the construc
tive work the Indians knew was being done for their benefit.
Chall: How did you go about starting this work?
WCL: I had known Hugh Calkins as a Forest Service officer. He was
acquainted with this southwestern region and was well liked and
tactful. We made a survey of the entire area. We stayed over
night at the most remote Indian village of Cayenta, 165 miles in
a straight line to Flagstaff. This was said to have the poorest
communications of any locality in the United States furtherest
from a post office. Only a few white traders ever went there.
But I wanted to have a picture of the entire reservation. The
roads were so rough, I sprained my hip by continual bumps. Hugh
Calkins agreed to take over the Navajo project.
In this survey, I had visited the cliff dwellings in Chaco
Canyon and had seen check dams for water spreading that were
built by these Indian cliff dwellers several centuries ago. "these
interested me very much. I have always tried to find native
solutions to problems as a basis on which to build modern tech
nology.
I was fortunate to find a young Indian who could speak
English. He was glad to work for us and I appointed him "Straw
Boss." Together we inspected the ancient check dams and evi
dences of water spreading that had been built by his ancestors.
He was delighted at my praise of them and their works. I told
him he was to use this method along with suggested modern tech
niques, and put his fellow tribesmen to work on the land for
money.
This work progressed rapidly and showed results. The rain
waters were held back and spread over the valley floors instead
of rushing off, carrying away soil from their fields.
The project was so big and so urgent that along with the
143
WCL: Indians, we asked for several C.C.C. camps. All they did, day
in and day out, was to build dams in gullies, large and small.
On one of my inspection trips later, I was amused to see the
humor that our American boys are able to muster, no matter how
dreary the surroundings. In front of the main building of one
camp, I laughed to see in bold print on a board attached to an
electric pole, the couplet:
"Say we to the gullies, we'll dam you.
Say the gullies to us, we'll be damned if you do."
By the method of catching rain waters behind check dams
and dams across the gullies, and spreading these waters over
valley floors, the grass came back three and four feet high.
The yields of squaw corn were fabulous — I believe something like
seventy bushels to the acre. The Indians were delighted. Hugh
Calkins and his staff did a wonderful job on this Mexican Springs
experimental area.
But these Indian reservation lands were ill-suited to sus
tain the Indian population explosion. Health conditions remained
very bad. We rejoice with them that both oil and uranium have
been found on their tribal lands, and the Navajos are getting
rich and are now trying to work for the good of all the popula
tion with their tribal wealth.
Chall: It must have been very gratifying to demonstrate to the Navajos
how they could bring back their lands into production. Did you
have other such projects?
Gila River: The San Simon Wash and the Cattlemen
WCL: Yes, and simultaneously along with the Navajo work. Just as the
new Soil Erosion Service was being organized in the Winder Build
ing, our first location, the delegation from Arizona, Senator
Carl Hayden, Senator Henry Ashurst and Congresswoman Mrs. Isabella
Greenway, came to ask us for help. Floods on the Gila River were
causing destruction of beautiful fertile alluvial lands that grew
two bales of cotton to the acre, which was much more than was
harvested in the east. They wanted dams to control such floods.
Senator Hayden had known my father. He remembered that I
had taken the 1910 census in Cochise County, Arizona, so it was
natural that he would bring the delegation to my office.
On my next inspection trip out to the Navajo pilot project
at Mexican Springs, I went to inspect the Gila River problem.
As is my custom, I wanted to see everything on the ground myself
144
WCL: and not make decisions on hearsay. I went to Safford, borrowed
a car and began to make local contacts and also to make a rapid
survey of the Gila River, its tributaries, its alluvial flat
lands and its mountain drainages. I gave special attention to
the origin and characteristics of the famous San Simon Wash.
Chall: What was the San Simon Wash?
This Wash is a great gully and a tributary of the Gila River.
It is a startling example of accelerated or man-induced erosion
that advanced rapidly like a malignant cancer down through the
alluvial valley. When I saw it, the San Simon Wa;;h was sixty
miles long, ten to thirty feet deep and one to three thousand
feet wide. This had lowered the water table, drained the val
ley dry and ruined farming and grazing on these former beauti
ful lands.
I went to the editor of the Safford News to see if back
copies were available which would indicate the former condition
of the valley. I found that at one time there had been no Wash,
but grasses that were belly-high to a horse. When General Fre
mont's army passed through, they reported these grasses were so
nutritious that they did not have to rest the hordes every other
day, because the horses had strength to haul daily.
Another paper had recorded how two fanners hjid plowed a
furrow through the heavy grass to drain off flood waters that
had begun to accumulate around the village of Solomonvi I le.
There was no Wash yet, but overgrazing higher up was causing
more flood waters to rush off the slopes.
Another paper related that, though there was much runoff
in early days, there was no Wash. It told of a mcin with a
freight wagon who had left Bowie just as the flood waters started
down the valley, and about the fact that the heavy grass cover
made the waters spread out and move so slowly that the freight
wagon arrived in Safford before the flood.
I found that after the defeat and capture of the Apache
Chief, Geremino, in 1875, the settlers began to come in, and the
government made a survey of the Gila River valley. I went to
the Land Office and was able to get photostatic copies of the
original notes of the surveyors.
I then hired surveyors and I chose four section lines across
the Gila River valley which I proposed to re-survey. The notes
written in 1875 reported the channel varied in width from sixty-
six to one hundred feet. They reported high grass on either
side. The channel was apparently very shallow.
My survey then showed that in fifty-nine years, the channel
145
WCL: had widened from the range of sixty-six to one hundred feet to
from one thousand to three thousand feet; and in 1934 it was
sixty miles long. No wonder the representatives of Arizona
wanted drastic measures immediately to stop the growth of this
malignant cancer spreading wider and longer through the valley.
Cha I 1 : With this factual picture of what had been happening, did you
feel that something could be done?
WCL: Well, I had to tell the people of Safford valley that I would
not recommend the construction of dams for control of flood
waters, unless we could put the drainage area under management
and control soil erosion on it. My remarks were received with
skepticism. I asked for cattlemen using lands up on the drain
ages to make a trip with me to see and discuss areas of severe
overgrazing and resulting erosion. One by one they began to
recognize that what they were doing could not be continued.
But some of the men were holding out against my recommenda
tions. Finally, a wizened, wind-tanned little man, who had said
little all day, stood up in front of the cattlemen and said,
"You boys know what he is talking about — we cannol run our cat
tle on this public domain outside our ranches. Our caltle, in
stead of getting fatter, are getting thinner. We are not making
any money now and you know it. I am for going along with this
man from Washington and get these lands under some; sort of man
agement that will build up the carrying capacity of the area."
Then Mr. Wilson, a cattleman, and I rode horseback and saw
much that I could not otherwise have seen. He took me to Mr.
Lathrop, who ran the most cattle in the area. Mr. Wilson crowded
Mr. Lathrop into a corner until he finally agreed.
Now I had an agreement with the principle users of these
lands to work out plans to restore the region as far as possible.
Chall: Now that the cattlemen had agreed for you to work out plans, how
did you go about this work on Public Domain lands?
WCL: Of course, the first thing I did was to report to Senators Hayden
and Ashurst and Congresswoman Greenway. My proposal was that
we chould form a conservancy district which must be approved by
Congress, for the Gila River flowed across lands of two states.
Senator Ashurst, a cultured diplomat, was favorable to any meas
ure we worked out but had no suggestions. Senator Carl Hayden,
a brusque, quick-acting westerner, told me to go iihead and in
vestigate how other conservancies had been established.
The Miami Conservancy in Ohio, I found, had been the most
successful in limiting floods, and I followed their methods of
condemning land to get areas necessary for installations. My
146
WCL: plans for a conservancy would give authority to u?; to act.
I proposed a bi I I and Senator Hayden, from his experience,
included specifications to be applied to measures. We discussed
how the Corps of Army Engineers already had authority to control
floods on main streams and rivers in the United States. But our
proposition was to propose measures to control floods of little
waters on upper drainages of these rivers.
Work on Omnibus Flood Control Act of 1936
WCL: Senator Hayden asked me, "Why shouldn't we provide for control
of this kind on lands at the headwaters of all the streams where
Army Engineers have control of floods on the Tower reaches?"
I said to Hayden, "If you can get such a provision passed,
it will be one of the most constructive measures for this decade."
Hayden immediately took steps and got the support of Presi
dent Roosevelt. Together, Senator Hayden and I worked on this
bill, which gave me opportunities to use my past experiences in
watershed management and flood control.
The final result was the Omnibus Flood Control Act, passed
in 1936, which called for the Department of Agriculture to be
responsible for treating the headwaters of rivers and streams
on which the Army Corps of Engineers had dams, dikes, levees and
flood control structures down below in lower reaches.
But the conservancy idea was dropped, for sponsors of the
new Taylor Grazing Act, which had just been passed in 1934, felt
that it would be a duplication.
Taylor Grazing Act
Chall: Why did they think so?
WCL: This Taylor Grazing Act defined the rights of ranchers for
grazing, and administered the range, and collected fees for
grazing of stock on lands of the Public Dom--jin. This Act set
147
WCL: up grazing districts but did little to encourage scientific
grazing as we would have done in the conservancy. Its sponsors
felt that that portion of the Act that provided for flood con
trol on the upper watersheds carried out the same function as
would the conservancy, although I think there would have been
certain advantages in the conservancy.
I am glad that now there are hundreds of watersheds treated
all over the country. Whatever stops or greatly reduces the
floods on little tributary valleys will stop most of the mud
from getting into the great reservoirs and mainstreams and noth
ing else will do it. Now many times in heavy rain storms, no
damage is done because this treatment of upper watersheds has
brought about the control of otherwise dangerous little waters.
It was the Omnibus Flood Control Act of 1936 that Senator
Hayden and I worked out that brought about control of the upper
reaches of river valley tributaries, as well as flood control
on the lower big streams. Hayden discussed this with Roosevelt
who gave it his full support.
Attitudes of Cattlemen
Chall: Were you closely associated with this Taylor Grazing Act?
WCL: Yes, in one way, I was. For it was at this time that a life
time friendship was formed with Farrington Carpenter, who was
the first Chief of the Bureau of Grazing. He was a wealthy cat
tle rancher from Colorado. He was immensely popular and was known
throughout the west and had large political backing. We both
lived at the Cosmos Club at that time, and spent many hours to
gether discussing grazing problems as well as flood and erosion
problems in the west.
Carpenter also enjoyed telling me of his fights with Ickes
and members of his staff. Carpenter was a very outspoken west
erner and was fearless to say what he thought. Ickes and his
staff felt that Carpenter did not show them the proper respect.
When he would return from his trips to the west, he would come
in and say, "Well, I've come back to the Big Boss in Big Tepee
on the Potomac," and similar remarks. The more Ickes resented
Carpenter's humor, the more Carpenter was stimulated to express
his independence. He kowtowed to no one, even "the Big Boss in
the Big Tepee on the Potomac."
Chall: If Farrington Carpenter, as Chief of the Bureau of Grazing, WEJL
so popular with the stockmen, then I presume he was able to per
suade stockmen to abide by the restrictions of the Taylor Gra/inq
148
Chal
WCL:
Act?
Well, probably no one in the United States could have done bet
ter than Carpenter. Yet he too had constant battles with stock
men who resisted being told what they could and could not do on
Public Domain lands, and more so, on their own lands. Often
Carpenter told me of such conflicts.
He told me once about a large meeting of cattlemen where
most were bitter at being told what they could and could not do
on grazing lands. He said that one cattleman took off his ex
pensive gold watch and held it up and said, "This watch is mine.
I bought it and paid for it, and what I do with it is no one's
damn business. I can do with it as I damn please and no one is
going to tell me what I can do with what is my own. If I want
to destroy what I own and what is mine, I have a right to do it.'
With that, the cattleman, with one furious stroke, smashed
this expensive gold watch with full force onto the arm of his
chair to prove his point. There doubtless were others who held
the same opinion but were not so demonstrative about it.
Transfer o_f_ Soi I Erosion Service _to Department o_f_ Agriculture
Chal I
WCL:
Dr. Lowdermilk, What part did you
Soi! Conservation Act of 1935?
have in the writing of the
At first, as you know, we were acting under an emergency relief
bill. But before long, it began to appear that the soil conser
vation program under the Soil Erosion Service was not temporary
but would become permanent. Secretary I ekes called on his law
yer to draw up a bill which would outline the functions of a new
Soil Erosion Service for the Department of Interior. I was called
in for discussions on the new bill.
In the meantime, I was obsessed with the need for farsighted,
coordinated planning along all the lines into which the Soil Ero
sion Service was branching out; for by this time we were working
in soil science, agronomy, farm pastures, range management, for
estry, wild life management, and agricultural engineering. Our
work with the farmers was becoming very popular, but as popularity
grew, hostility grew, for it seemed to the bureaus of the Deport
ment of Agriculture that we were setting up a little Department
of Agriculture in the Department of Interior. They did not like
it at all and sai d so.
149
WCL: For some reason, we heard nothing further from I ekes1 law
yer about the new bill. But nightly I would say to my wife,
"We must make this law big enough and broad enough and farsighted
enough, so that seventy-five or one hundred years from now, the
government will be able to do whatever is necessary to control
flood waters and erosion, and safeguard our country's soils and
waters."
I was always free to discuss with Senator Hayden whatever
I was thinking or doing. He was always most helpful. So I con
tinued to work on what I thought would be needed in a permanent
Soil Conservation Act.
Suddenly I got wind that the bill that we had discussed
with Ickes1 lawyer was to be pushed through, putting our Soil
Erosion Service permanently in the Department of Interior.
But I had always felt that it would be better to be in the
Department of Agriculture. In this, I was in discigreement with
Bennett, for he was well established in Interior with many friends
and henchmen, while in the Department of Agriculture he had an
tagonized some bureaus and they were exceedingly hostile to him.
So I could not discuss my ideas with Bennett.
During the night, I formulated a plan. I did not want to
go direct to Rexford Tugwell, for that would be too obvious.
So at breakfast time, I phoned a trusted friend, Earl Bressman,
in the inner circles of the Department of Agriculture and asked
him to pick me up in his car on a certain corner, so that I could
ride to work with him.
I then told him what appeared to be in the works, and that
unless the Department of Agriculture moved fast, the Soil Erosion
Service would be established as a permanent bureau in the Depart
ment of the Interior. I then went to Senator Hayden and told him
what I had done. The Senator knew from our many discussions .that
the bill I had been working on was comprehensive, looking to a
sound soil and water conservation program with long-range objec
tives.
Tugwell and others acted fast. I do not know just how it
was done. Ickes was out of town for three days. Tugwell got
President Roosevelt to issue an order for the transfer of the
Soil Erosion Service to the Department of Agriculture. Ickes
was furious about it when notified, and he rushed back to Wash
ington. But it was too late.
150
Passing the Soi I Conservation Act
WCL: Senator Hayden arranged for the bill to be broughl out for hear
ings. While the hearings were going on, Jed Johnson, a Congress
man from Oklahoma and a member of the Appropriations Committee,
left the room for a long distance call from Oklahoma. On his
return to the hearings room, he told us that one of his strong
constituents had called from Oklahoma City, saying thai the high
plains were blowing away, that dust and sand in great clouds were
covering the streets of Oklahoma City several inches deep.
He had said, "Can't you do something about slopping wind
erosion in our high plains?" Jed Johnson told him, "That's just
what we are doing now — holding hearings on a bill. If it's en
acted, it will do something about these dusf storms, and water
erosion as we I I . "
When the bill came up for the vote, there war> not one dis
senting vote in either the House or the Senate against our Soil
Conservation Act, so strong was sentiment for our work, and the
very evident need to control and conserve our lands and our
waters.
Thus the question of transfer of our organization was set-
tied in this unanimous approval of the bill that established our
Service as a permanent bureau in the Department of Agriculture.
It was named the Soil Conservation Service as many of us had
wanted al I along .
Of course most were satisfied with this outcome, but we
had rude shocks at the antagonism that had grown up against us
from bureaus in the Department of Agriculture. This hostility
continued despite the unanimous passage of the Act that had
settled most issues as the bureaus in the Department of Agri
culture had wanted all along. Even so, there was still strong
sentiment in Agriculture to split up our Service and to dis
tribute its parts into allied branches of existing bureaus.
Relations With Extension Service and Farm Bureau Federation
WCL: While our Soil Erosion Service was in the Department of Interior,
we also had a running battle with the Farm Bureau Federation,
which was a nation-wide organization and played a largo part in
151
WCL: much of the hostility and opposition to us. The Federation
worked very closely with the Extension Service of the Depart
ment of Agriculture. Good old M. L. Wilson, Chief of Agricul
tural Extension, kept himself aloof from bickerings, but many
of his staff around the country were militant and hostile and
have not buried the hatchet yet.
So these were the birth pains of the new Soil Conservation
Service. The infant was lusty. The new Soil Conservation Ser
vice fought its battles not with the farmers or people around
tje country; the battles were all inter-departmental and inter-
agency. But in spite of all this, the new Service developed
rapidly.
Part II The Soil Conservation Service, 1935-1938
Chal I : Dr. Lowdermilk, when you were helping to write the Soil Con
servation Act, were you thinking ahead to the districts?
Reasons for Districts in Soil Conservation Service
WCL: No, for this work is like a chess game; we make a move and -then
see what happens to direct us to make another move. Each stop
152
WCL: leads to another step.
Chall: What was it that led you to decide on the formation of districts
as your next move?
WCL: Two things: the Ben James' farm and a trip to our soil conser
vation projects at Tyler, Texas, where we had one of our C.C.C.
camps. The boys were laying out and constructing broad base
terraces on a farmer's land. The object was to give a sample
and let him take part in construction of these terraces so that
he could continue to construct them himself. We made it a strict
rule or policy that we would not do all the terraces needed, but
only enough to demonstrate to the farmer how to Ciirry out these
measures to safeguard his land from erosion.
I came to the C.C.C. camp and was discussing plans for go
ing over the farm. The night before, there had been a heavy
rainstorm. The farmer who owned the land, <3nd on which we were
doing the demonstration, came to our group and said to our man
in charge, "Some of your terraces broke last night."
Our terracing crew had worked up until quitting time the
night before and had had no time that evening to bring the chan
nels up to standard as was our general practice. The finishing
work was planned for the following day.
I said to the farmer, "Let's go see." Sure enough, at some
of the low spots that had not been properly shaped up, there were
breaks where water had collected in the terrace channels and had
broken through.
The storm water was running down-slope and cutting another
small gully. Then this farmer made the point that he_ was not
respons i ble for these terraces because they were the work of our
crew, and therefore he_ was not responsible.
The idea came to me very strongly that here this farmer
assumed no responsibility for the proper construction of the
terraces on his land. If anything went wrong, then our men were
to be blamed and not the farmer. A lot of misunderstanding and
trouble lay ahead if this became the accepted view.
I concluded we needed to develop responsibility for works
done on the land. So we would need some kind of on arrangement
whereby the farmer and the government would collaborate in tho
planning and construction of these measures to control storm
waters and soil erosion. Something must be worked out to reo'.h
our objective for working together in the interest;, of the farmer
as v»ell as the government.
153
Ben James' Farm
Chall: You spoke of the Ben James' farm. What part did it have in
formulating your idea of districts for collaboration of farmer
and government?
WCL: It played an important part. I saw it while I was on -this in
spection trip in 1934, on the Duck Creek Demonstration Project
in eastern Texas. Our field staff said they had it problem on
the Ben James farm and asked me to advise them on how we should
treat it. The Federal Land Bank some years before had loaned
one thousand dollars on this farm. The representative of the
bank had requested our Soil Conservation Service to fix it up.
So I went out to see the Ben James farm with the bank rep
resentative and our field staff. Here I saw a farm of 101.7 acres
which had left on it about ten acres of topsoil. Besides serious
sheet erosion, big gullies fifteen to twenty feet deep were eat
ing headward up a fifteen percent slope.
As we looked into these gullies, I asked, "What is this
farm worth now?" After some discussion, the sale value at that
time was put at about five hundred dollars. Then I asked, "What
has become of all the material excavated out of these gullies?"
So we followed the gullies across Ben James' property line on
to his neighbor's farm of bottom land. There we found part of
Ben James' farm turned upside down with the sterile material of
the gully bottoms spread out on top of a fan that extended over
good bottom land and was choking up a clear stream.
Then I said, "Here is Ben James' farm, but what about Ben
James?" "He is on relief," they said.
To the bank representative I said, "If you will foreclose
on this mortgage and take it in as Federal land, we will fix it
up for you. We will not make a farm of it — it is too far gone
for that. But we will plant most of it up with trees and make
a pasture out of the remainder."
A year later, I went back to see the Ben James farm. The
bank did not want to foreclose, but Ben James had abandoned the
farm and become a sharecropper on a large farm in the vicinity.
So here was our whole problem in a single farm, and this
could be duplicated over and over again, formerly, Ben James
had played his part in the community, not a large part perhfjp-.,
but still a contributing part. But as erosion wfj-,hed out tho
productivity of his farm, the land was seriously domaqud ond
Ben James was in difficulty. This tragedy in the use of lund
concerned Ben James, his school district, his county, his st«j1o
154
WCL: and the federal government. For every taxpaying citizen in the
United States could well be concerned in this farm of Ben James
and others 1 i ke it.
I pondered much on this problem. How could we set up a
mechanism in which the farmer, the community, the state and
federal government could carry out their respective respon
sibilities and at the same time, conserve the individual Ini
tiative of its people. This resource must be conserved and put
to full use. For in no other way will principles of soil and
water conservation be adapted and applied on each field varying
from place to place, from time to time.
Such incidents as these I have mentioned revealed basic needs
for collaboration between the farmer and his government. The
interest of the farmer and the government come together in the
soil which grows the food for the nation from generation to gen
eration. For in the Soil Conservation Districts, we seek the
integration of a three-fold purpose: to give play to individual
initiative, within a framework of social objectives, arrived at
by the democratic process.
It came to me that we might use the principle of irrigation
and drainage districts, wherein farmers and the government work
together to obtain an objective for the benefit of both farmer
and government. I decided we would need Soil Conservation Dis
tricts to achieve our objective.
Developing the Districts
WCL: On my return to Washington, I placed before Bennett this idea
and suggested that we employ a capable man who wa!; well ac
quainted with the problem of working with farmers, especially in
the Extension Service. This especially equipped man was not
easy to find. I repeatedly said that I would be willing to pay
the right man a larger salary than my own, for the success of
the whole idea would depend on the work and vision of the man
in charge of getting these districts established across the
country. We finally appointed Dillon Myer for this job. He had
been very successful in Ohio in the Agricultural Extension
Servi ce.
Of course, there were a number of local problems to be
worked out. We discussed the idea of forming Soil Conservation
Districts with our staff and that of the office of Secretary
Wallace. It was agreed that we should draft a model law, called
a "Standard Act," which would set up procedures for making por,-
sible the collaboration of the Department of Agriculture with
155
WCL: the Soil Conservation Districts as representatives of the farmers
concerned.
Mr. Philip Glick, who was attorney for the Department of
Agriculture, began work on a draft of this permissive legisla
tion. After much consultation between Dillon Myer and our head
quarters staff of the Soil Conservation Service, a "Standard Act"
was finally formulated in 1936.
Chall: When were these Soil Conservation Districts established?
WCL: President Franklin D. Roosevelt called on Governors of states
and suggested the desirability for states to pass enabling legis
lation to form Soil Conservation Districts according to the "Stan
dard Act." In these newly formed districts, farmers were to have
the responsibility and initiative for taking steps to conserve
their lands from erosion wastage. Supervisors of districts were
empowered to call on any agency, state or federal, to assist them
in their task of saving their lands.
Some of the states adopted the Standard Act with few changes,
but other states required considerable change before they would
accept the legislation that would govern the formation and opera
tion of Soil Conservation Districts within their borders.
Bennett knew the people of the south and had many of his
own men down there, and he called on them to test out plans and
procedures and they complied and were a great success from the
start. This may have been due in part to the good work of Dr.
T. S. Buie, our Regional Conservator of the southeast region, with
headquarters in South Carolina.
Once the districts took hold, the idea spread rapidly over
the United States; and in a comparatively short time, ninety
percent of the farm lands were included in Soil Conservation
Districts. The Soil Conservation Service program, now wedded
so closely with local districts, has been instrumental in popu
larizing soil conservation rapidly. Districts, because they are
farmer-organized and farmer-directed, invite the confidence and
participation of farmers in both the planning and application of
soi I and water conservation work.
Success of Districts
WCL: Our Soil Conservation District program succeeded in the United
States, because districts have been established on sound princi
ples of putting to work the great resources of individual ini
tiative and responsibility within a definite national objective
156
WCL: of promoting the general welfare.
Some features of the movement of Soil Conservation Dis
tricts may be of interest:
1. The districts are typically American, in that they pro
vide a means of mutual action toward common objectives as deter
mined by the majority.
2. They are independent and are not controlled by either
state or federal influences. When requested, the federal govern
ment renders them aid. The districts exist for action.
3. The districts are autonomous organizations that are able
to plan programs, obtain information, procure government and
other services, and do many other things that the same farmers
as individuals working alone would not be able to do.
4. These districts were a clearing house in the locality
for carrying forward advanced agricultural programs and devel
opments in general. They are in an authoritative position to
make known to such professional workers as the county agent,
soil conservation technician, forester, and highway engineer,
the needs and desires of the local people.
Chall: It must have been gratifying to you to see the rapid success
of these Soil Conservation Districts.
WCL: Yes. They justified our hopes and plans in a remarkable way.
As our district supervisors increased in numbers and the dis
tricts spread throughout the country, supervisors formed organi
zations of state and national associations restricted to farmers
of the nation. These associations became powerful spokesmen for
the farmers who were independent of government control in run
ning their districts.
This was a good thing, for at one time these Soil Conserva
tion Districts were able to prevent the breakup of the Soil Con
servation Service in an inter-departmental 'Conf I ict, and to pre
vent the Agricultural Conservation Program from combining its
political provisions with our technical services to farmers.
These districts continue a tower of strength in our program of
soi I and water conservation.
157
Reasons for Regional Administration
Chall: We now know how the districts were formed, but why was the Soil
Conservation Service based on regions rather than established
political boundaries?
At the beginning of our Soil Erosion Service, Bennett followed
his former practice of directing all operations from our Wash
ington office. This practice may have been suited to a bureau
that dealt with only a few people and with specialized services
within narrow boundaries. But as our services spread rapidly
over the country, even to Puerto Rico, our business became more
complex, and answering mail became a tremendous job.
Bennett was determined to direct all our contacts from our
Washington headquarters, especially with the south where he knew
personally so many farmers and government field men. We were
literally swamped with mail every day.
When Bennett became too burdened with his part, he would
take off on a trip. He enjoyed making speeches and was an ex
cellent publicist for our cause. This left me with all the mail
as well as the development of our research organization which
at that time I was endeavoring to set up. For research has
always been my specialty in which I was keenly interested. I
was overwhelmed with work. I determined that something had to
be done.
Having been brought up in the Forest Service, so to speak,
which had regionalized its operations as well as its research
with very satisfactory results, I proposed to Bennett that we
regionalize our Soil Conservation Service. Reluctantly, he
agreed. I advised dividing the country into eleven regions
which were later reduced to seven, and suggested that we appoint
a regional conservator for each one, who would have charge of
all activities in his respective region. These regional con
servators would be responsible to us and we would deal through
them. This would greatly reduce our load of details.
This was the place to train future directors, because
problems would not be so numerous and would not cover as much
area, but they would have the kinds of problems that, as chief
of the Service, they would be required to handle. One of the
objectives was to prepare for effective continuation of our
services. Of course in the minds of some, that was not a good
idea. These bureaucrats wanted to get control. We chose out
standing men who were well acquainted with their respective
regions to take on these important positions.
158
WCL: Once the plan became known, we generally got favorable
reactions. The system worked beautifully, lightened our load
in Washington, and gave us an opportunity to give more time to
development and improving our administration of the rapidly
growing Service.
We had a few problems when Congressmen wanted to take up
with our Washington office, various problems of their consti
tuents. When we referred them to the regional conservator and
said they would have to deal with him instead of us in the Wash
ington office, some were indignant and caused some trouble. But
this occasional friction was nothing compared to the load that
was lifted from us in Washington headquarters.
Relations With A. A. A.
Cha I I : Did the Agricultural Adjustment Administration compete with
the Soil Conservation Service in work for farmers?
WCL: On paper, yes; but on land, no. For we gave technical assist
ance to the farmers. The A. A. A. was a federal agency that sought
to bring farm income into its proper relation to industrial in
come through payments to farmers for adoption of conservation
land-use practices. This promoted the spread of conservation
practices and also relieved farmers of the economic stress
caused by crop surpluses and consequent low prices for farm
products .
Schedules of payments were offered for reduction in acreage
of soi I -depleting crops, generally those cash crops of which
there was a national surplus. In addition, payments were made
for soil-building practices, such as the use of legumes and grass,
and, to some extent, for terracing, and contour furrowing, and
the application of fertilizers and crushed limestone.
Chall: How did the A. A. A. finance these expensive payments?
WCL: They financed their work by levying a tax on flour and grain
mills, which would be sufficient to equalize the income for
this purpose. This was one of President Roosevelt's first New
Deaf measures to help the farmers. It was inspired by Secre
tary Wai lace.
Naturally the grain mills resented this tax on them and
challenged this act. After the issue had l.een in the courts
159
WCL: for about three years, the Supreme Court ruled that the method
of collecting this differential tax was unconstitutional, so
this measure of collecting money to achieve a very important
objective failed in its purpose.
Some other method had to be found at once or the A. A. A.
would have to shut down their operations. They were all as
blue as indigo. Some of the staff had gathered in Director
Peek's office when a news reporter who made daily rounds in the
Department of Agriculture, came in to ask how they felt about
the Supreme Court's decision the day before. Director Peek
replied that they were ruined and could not go on with their
program.
Then the reporter said, "You have authority in the Soil
Conservation Act, Public Law 46." Director Peek said, "Oh, no;
there is no hope in that direction."
The reporter said, "Have you read the bill all through? If
you have not, I advise you to do it — here, I have it i n my poc
ket." And he handed it to Director Peek.
When Peek finished reading the Act, I was told that he said,
"My God," and put both hands down on the keys to call staff mem
bers of the A. A. A. to his office. For he realized that this Soil
Conservation Act was so broad in its scope that A. A. A. could
continue to operate under its provisions. So they were able to
carry on for a time.
Then they proposed another act to incorporate the two
agencies of the A. A. A. and our Soil Conservation Service into a
single organization. But this would have swallowed us and under
mined the entire technical aspect of our Soil Conservation Ser
vice. Of course, we were against any such move and immediately
marshalled our forces to resist any attempt at combining the
two agencies, and it was not done.
The Soil Conservation and Domestic Allotment Act was, there
fore, passed in 1936 to provide for continuance of A. A. A. pay
ments to farmers.
Coordination of Special ists: The Farm Planner
Chall: Dr. Lowdermilk, your emphasis is always on the coordinated at
tack on land-use problems. How did you deal with the farmer?
160
WCL: From the first, we declared for and prescribed coordination of
specialties of technical men concerned with services to our
farmers. We had specialists in soil science, agronomy, farm
pastures, farm forestry, wild life management, range management
and agricultural engineering. At first, we would send out to a
farmer who had asked for assistance, those specialists most needed
for this area and this farm, who would work out together an inte
grated farm conservation plan.
But the farmer was usually overwhelmed by so many government
men on his farm at a time, so we set up the position of farm plan
ner, with exacting qualifications: he must be a technically
trained expert in one of the above specialties; he must also have
a good general knowledge of farming in the problem areas; he must
have the ability to acquaint himself with the agriculture of the
entire problem area in which he is working, and at the same time,
learn the several solutions that had been worked out by top spe
cialists who had already made a study of the area.
Chall: How had these solutions been established for use by the planner?
WCL: First, land-use capability surveys were made of problem areas;
then the several specialists worked out a basic plan for treat
ment of each problem. So you see, this new profession of farm
planner had to be capable of informing himself on what our co
ordinated staff had worked out.
Provision was also made for the farm planner, if he en
countered a problem for which he had no satisfactory solution,
to call specialists of the Consulting Board of the area to come
and inspect and suggest solutions. In this way, the farmer was
given the expert service of the best technicians we had.
Thus the farm planner became our "land doctor." He looked
over the sick fields, diagnosed the problem and decided what
treatment would be necessary for recovery. Sometimes several
different treatments were called for on one farm.
The farm planner was trained to read his land-use capability
map, which had been prepared by soil scientists to indicate what
areas were suitable for cultivated crops, what measures were re
quired to conserve the soils of fields under cultivation, and
what areas should be allotted to cover crops, such as improved
pasture and wood lots. He prescribed the planting up of gullied
areas for gully control and for wild life refuges.
For simple engineering structures, the farm planner would
prescribe standard treatments. But for more complex ot ructurt,-,,
for multi -purposes in drainage and irrigation, he would ca! I in
the engineering team.
161
Obtain! ng Cooperation of Farmers
Chall: When the majority of the farmers of an area voted to form a
conservation district, did those who objected accept the deci
sion of the majority and fall in line?
WCL : No, not always. There always were some who refused to follow
along and were uncooperative. As one farmer said to me, "We do
not need anyone from Washington to come here and tell us what to
do on our farm. Me and my two sons have already wore out two
farms and this one is about wore out."
Sure enough, the farmer and his sons had plowed up and down
the slopes, and rain waters had riddled the fields with small
gullies that were cutting deeper and deeper and had carried off
his topsoils, so that he was largely farming sterile subsoil.
Debris from his fields had been dumped on the farm lower down
slope, while fine soils had been swept downstream to fill high-
cost reservoirs with sediments.
This farmer who did not want to be told what to do started
a vicious chain of damage, reaching far away. It was a case of
"the sins of the fathers being visited onto the children even
unto the third and fourth generations," as said by the prophet
of old .
Chall: Then it was pretty much a question of general education for
the nation to understand what soil erosion can do to the farmer
as well as to his neighbors, his county, state and national
we I I -be ing.
WCL: Yes, and I shall never forget a contest in a farm magazine that
offered a prize for the best one-hundred-word description of a
deserted farm house in a gullied field. The prize was won by an
I ndian, who wrote:
"Picture show white man crazy. Cut down trees; make big
tepee. Plow hill; water wash. Wind blow soil; grass gone.
Door and window gone; whole place gone. Money gone. Papoose
gone; Squaw too. No Chuckaway; No pigs, No corn, No plow, No
hay, No pony. Indian no plow land. Keep grass; Buffalo eat
grass; Indian eat buffalo. Hide make tepee; Make moccasin.
162
Indian no make terrace. No make dam — no give dam. All time
eat. No hunt job. No hitch hike. No ask relief. No shoot
pig. Great Spirit make grass. Indian no waste anything; Indian
no work; White man crazy."
The Indian's use of land was good for his former native way
of life, but would have to give way to intensive use of land for
increasing populations; however, not by wasteful exploitation as
the white man had done which destroyed the lands that fed him.
We must be born again, out of an economy of wasteful exploitation
into an economy of full use with conservation of earth's resource
I ngenious Farmer: Sam Gowder
Chall: You have said that in China you found native farmers who had
partially solved some of their land-use problems without help
from scholars or technicians. Did you find this true among our
farmers in the United States?
WCL: Yes. I always evaluate farmer practices and when I see that they
have devised even partial solutions, 1 compliment them and build
on what they have done. I use them to demonstrate to other far
mers what they can do to improve their lands.
I was in northern Georgia one time, advising farmers to
keep crop litter or mulch on sloping fields. A farmer remarked
that his neighbor, Sam Gowder, had a strange practice. I asked
to be taken to the Gowder farm. I found he was not using a turn
ing plow that would expose the soils, but instead, a single-blade
plow about four inches wide and twelve inches long which stirred
the soil and encouraged rain percolation but left a layer of leaf
litter and mulch on the surface. Here this uneducated hill far
mer had thought out on his own a remarkable discovery.
I asked Sam Gowder how he happened to use this method. He
said that when he was a young man, he was a farm laborer and
saw how farmers 'round about in the hilly country were clearinq
forests, and cultivating sloping fields, and exposing soils t'>
heavy rains until they were cultivating bright red subsoil
163
WCL: rather than gray brown topsoil.
When he decided to marry and start a home, he bought an in
expensive hill farm. He recognized there was no erosion under
the mulch of forest woodlot that was covered with leaves and lit
ter. His fields for cultivation had a slope of seventeen percent
which is steep for continued annual cropping, so Sam Gowder de
cided to use this bull tongue plow and keep the crop litter or
mulch on the ground.
I was delighted to see that he was still cultivating top-
soil whereas the fields of his neighbors had all eroded down
to the bright red subsoil of that area. As a result of this
method, Sam Gowder grew more cotton per acre than his neighbors,
and better corn than his neighbors; and he always kept two or
more bales of cotton stored in his barn as a bank saving account,
so that he always had money for fertilizers and form machinery.
Sam Gowder and I sat down on the forest litter of the wood-
lot and I pulled apart the mulch to see its depth and the condi
tion of the decomposing leaves. We examined the burrowing of
little worms and other organisms that cause soils to retain
capacity to absorb rains that fall on them. I asked him if he
realized the functions of this forest litter and he said that
he did; this was the reason why he was keeping litter at the
surface of his cropland.
Sam Gowder became quite famous; many visitors came to see
what he had done. I personally escorted some Chinese govern
ment officials who were concerned with improving agriculture in
free China, to show them how we could often learn from unedu
cated farmers. I had found terraces built in north China by
uneducated farmers.
Sam Gowder practiced soil conservation all right, but I
guess I should not have taken my wife to see it; for whenever
I praised him, my wife burst forth in indignation at his lack of
conservation of human resources. His tired wife, who had not
taken a day off in years that she could remember, had been told
by her husband that she was to take the day off and visit with
"that woman from Washington." Believe me, "that woman from
Washington" (my wife) is still up in arms about Sam Gowder.
His house had been built twenty years before my visit in
1937, when they were married. In the ensuing twenty years, he
had never put on the front steps. The only entrance was at the
back door where there were no steps either, only two stones,
uneven in height, which gave one an unexpected jolt. When my
wife asked to go to the bathroom, she was told that there was
none. Thinking this meant there was none in the house, my wif<;
asked about the one in the yard. The answer was dgain that
164
WCL: there was none. Then my wife said, "But where do you go when
you want to go?" The reply was, "We just go out into the wood-
lot among the bushes." Yet Mrs. Gowder had lived in this house
for twenty years and brought up seven children!
Another objection that, to my wife, wai; unforgi veable was
that the water supply came from a spring two hundred feet below
in a steep canyon. All the household water was carried up this
trail by Mrs. Gowder and her children. All the big washings
were carried down to the spring where Mrs. (k>wder washed and, on
an outdoor fire, boiled her clothes. She hung the wash down
there and then carried it back up the steep path 1o the house.
This she had done for twenty years. Sam Gowder had never in
stalled a pump to bring water into the house and conserve his
tired wife's energy, although he had bought all the latest equip
ment for his farm.
The one concession my wife made to Sam Gowder was that he
liked music and had bought an organ so the family and neighbors
could enjoy Saturday and Sunday night sings together.
Demonstration Areas
Chall: Will you tell about the demonstration areas?
WCL: We found that farmers wanted to be shown how to conserve their
soils and how to produce bigger crops. The answer to this was
the demonstrations. They are remarkably effective in giving
farmers an opportunity to examine, criticize and learn modern
conservation fanning methods.
In setting up a demonstration area, the first step was to
obtain a base map of the entire project area. If one was not
already available, one was made from aerial photographs, for all
our work areas were photographed from the air. Contour maps
were drawn from the aerial photographs and enlarged to a scale
of about twelve inches to the mile. With such photographs, our
technical people could locate themselves on the photographs
within ten feet of their actual position.
A farm-by-farm survey was made, showing soil types, erosion
conditions, slopes, current land use and any other important
features. These were put directly on the base map. Then tech
nicians were able to draw up individual farm plan'.; for each for
mer in the area. Every step was considered on tho basis of need,
165
WCL: adaptability, economic feasibility and physical relationships
with adjoining lands.
If the fanner decided to adopt the conservation plan finally
worked out, he signed a cooperative working agreement with the
federal government through the Soil Conservation Service. He
agreed to follow the recommended land-use practices over a five
year period and to contribute as much as possible of labor, power-
animal or tractor — seed, and materials. The government agreed to
lay out the work, draw up structural specifications, and provide
what materials and labor the farmer was unable to supply; and
when lands had to be taken out of cultivation, to furnish suitable
plantings for the eroded lands.
These demonstration areas have proved most valuable in show
ing farmers how to conserve rainfall, improve soils, and increase
farm income by modern methods of conservation farming.
Lowdermi I k Appoi nted Ch ief of Research
Chall: When Rexford Tugwell called you from your hydrology work In
California, you were appointed as Associate Chief of the Soil
Erosion Service. Why was your title changed to Chief of Research?
WCL: I am at heart a research man. Once Bennett, in one of our de
partmental staff meetings, said that the Chief of the Bureau of
Public Roads would not have an Associate Chief, implying that he
did not like the idea either, and suggesting thai I become Chief
of Research. I did not object, for I was eager to get more re
search work done in our Soil Conservation Service, now that we
were well established as a working organization.
Chall: How did you go about establishing a research program for the
Soil Conservation Service?
Research Programs
WCL: First we took a survey of what the situation was and began to
build up our program. I felt a program of integrated research
166
WCL: was essential to the success of a national program for soil and
water conservation and correct land use. The problems involved
were, and still are, almost endless; many of them are inter
related and cannot be solved independently. Defense of lands
upstream may be necessary for the protection of a reservoir or
of farm land downstream, on which the welfare of those living in
the lower part of the valley may depend.
Plans for a comprehensive and coordinated national program
of land use call for research in many specialized fields, require
the collective efforts of many specialists, and must call into
effective cooperation the agencies concerned with specific fields,
The Soil Conservation research had to develop, in cooperation
with state agricultural experimentstations, and other scientific
and technical agencies, a forward-looking program of basic and
applied research for various problem areas.
Erosion Experiment Stations
WCL: We had a beginning, you will recall, in the ten soil erosion
stations that had been financed by the appropriation Congress
man Buchanan (of Texas) had secured in 1930 from emergency funds
set up by President Roosevelt. These were divided between the
Bureau of Soil Surveys and the Forest Service, and had provided
my funds for the San Dimas Hydrological Experiment Station.
These ten stations were transferred to us when we became the Soil
Conservation Service in the Department of Agriculture. In our
first appropriations we got approval for funds to establish ten
more such stations.
We had splendid cooperation from Jim Jardine, Director of
Research in the Department of Agriculture, and from the Forest
Service. The ten new stations for watershed studies were pat
terned somewhat after my original studies in San Dimas, but we
also extended this type of investigation to agriculture and
grasslands.
After conferring with the Forest Service and the Bureau of
Land Management, we set up a network of hydrologic stations for
problem areas where erosion and floods were critical factors in
the use of land, both farm and grasslands. We proceeded system
atically to find drainage basins, not too large and not too
small, in important problem areas.
I appointed Dov Krimgold, a hard-working brilliant hydrolo-
gist, to locate such pilot areas. The first one was located in
the Allegheny plateau, at Coshocton, Ohio, and Lloyd L. Harrold
was made director. Such a fine job was done here that in spite
167
WCL: of all changes in administration through the years, this re
search station is still operating effectively. In Coshocton,
we set up the most elaborate devices ever used in lysimeter stud
ies. Dr. Krimgold also located sites for stations at Waco, Texas,
and Hays, Kansas.
At Coweeta in North Carolina, Dr. Charles R. Hursh was
authorized to establish another hydrologic station and to se
lect his staff. He was especially favored with sufficient rain
fall so that there was a return flow underground, and the hydrolo
gic cycle could be more completely followed than at San Dimas
where we had streams of intermittent flow. We had here one of
the neatest and most interesting studies. Dr. Hursh adapted
himself to the mountain people in a remarkable way and the entire
project was most successful.
We located another station in Texas, not far from Waco. In
this area, rains may come in very intense storms; and since the
soil is shaley and less pervious than others, the storm runoff
can reach very high stages. This was an interesting station and
our data proved very valuable.
We wanted to find facts on the grain-growing lands of the
great plains, and we established another station near Hays in
Kansas. Here the problem was not excess water, but insufficient
water.
One of our most important surveys was on the damage that
had been done by wind and water erosion in the short time that
we had occupied our pristine continent and wasteful ly used and
misused our national resources. This was undertaken at Dalhart,
Texas. This was a center for studies of wind erosion in the
Dust Bowl .
In these twenty stations we could study various types of
problems around the country. Thus research in the Soil Conserva
tion Service was carried on in these experiment stations where
we collected basic data and in the demonstration projects which
gradually covered much of the country and which I discussed
previously.
Puerto Rico
Chall: I would like to hear about your work in Puerto Rico where I
understand you developed a bench terrace which they still call
the "Lowdermilk terrace." Why did you go to Puerto Rico?
WCL: When I was Chief of Research, I had to go to Puerto Rico to see
168
WCL: what our agricultural research station was doing. This was one
of the twenty. As usual, when I go to a new place, I I i ke to
tour the area to see what the critical problems are before mak
ing any suggestions as to what improvements might be made.
Puerto Rico is an overpopulated island with limited coastal
plains and steep sloping fields on which the farmers grow food
for rapidly increasing numbers. It is a tropical country and
heavy rains fall on sloping lands. I found that erosion was the
serious problem here. I decided that the solution would be bench
terraces, similar to what the Chinese farmers had installed in
northwest China. I planned, however, to put these in on the con
tour with scientific accuracy.
I found native farmers trying to build flat terraces with
shovels and wheel barrows which was slow and uneconomic. Many
farmers would not put forth this effort, so I suggested that far
mers plant strips one foot wide on the contour, using the rapidly-
growing, sturdy elephant grasses or guatamala grasses.
Then with each plowing, they would throw the earth outward
against these grass strips so that the earth would lodge and be
held on fhe contour. On the lower side of the grass strips, they
were to plow away from it, and in this way, the land would flatten
into cultivated bench terraces. Thus the slopes would be terraced
without any additional operations, probably within three to four
years.
The width of the terrace so developed was determined by the
steepness of the slope and the location of. the grass plantings.
For years these were called "Lowdermilk terraces." I am told
they have spread over the West Indies.
Sedimentation Studies
Chall: Did the study for measuring silt as it accumulated in Lake
Mead reservoir come under your research department?
WCL: Yes, and it happened in a rather interesting way. Andy Lawson,
Professor Emeritus of Geology at the University of California,
read in the paper one morning in 1936 that Boulder Dam (begun in
February, 1931 and completed in March, 1936), later called Hoover
Dam, was finished and that the gates to the great by-pass tunnel
had been shut so that the lake had begun to fill. Andy Lawson
wrote to Secretary Ickes that he should have an accurate survey
of the boundaries of the drainage area of the Colorado River and
asked if such a topographic map had been made.
169
WCL: Secretary I ekes passed this letter on to me and asked me to
see what could be done about this topographic map. I got together
a few of our specialists and sent off a telegram to FairchMd Com
pany, telling them of the project and asking them for help in set
ting up specifications for this aerial mapping. They complied
immediately, and we called for bids by telegraph, for flying and
photographing both the area that was to be covered with water and
the drainages that flowed into Lake Mead.
In one week, this entire preparatory job was completed. We
had called Fairchild, received specifications, asked for bids,
accepted one from a reliable outfit and the planes were in the
air carrying out their mission. Ickes was very pleased when I
reported this to him.
Chall: Did this complete your research work on sedimentation in Lake
Mead?
WCL: No, indeed. Our next step was to establish control points, both
for the topographical survey and for the influence this great new
body of water would have on the isostasy of the basin. The enor
mous weight of this new body of water would depress the earth's
crust beneath it.
I personally knew Major William Bowie. He was Director of
the Coast and Geodetic Survey and the leading authority in the
United States on isostasy of the earth's crust. I requested
Major Bowie to cooperate with us by allowing us to use his al
ready surveyed stations as our control points for the topographic
survey. Major Bowie was most cordial and offered to help in any
way possible. His surveys to determine how much the earth's
crust would be depressed by water backed up against Boulder Dam
were done with the highest degree of accuracy. Thus we had ex
cel lent control points for our surveys.
This important and accurate topographical map of Lake Mead
will enable scientists to know and keep track of the rate and
amount of sediments being deposited in the lake as long as it
exists.
Chall: Did you continue your studies on sedimentation begun in the Soil
Erosion Service?
WCL: Yes, when at San Dimas, I had worked out a program of collabora
tion with Cal Tech at Pasadena. I had been able to supply
emergency funds to Cal Tech to build a hydrologic laboratory,
and this collaboration continued after I became Chief of Re
search. I enjoyed going back from time to time to see the ex
cellence of their work, and they seemed equally eager for me to
see and discuss their findings with them.
170
WCL: It was here that Dr. Bell demonstrated in models how muddy
water behaves when entering a reservoir of clear water. Muddy
water is a liquid of greater density than that of clear water
and will underrun the clear water right up to the dam where it
will deposit the silt. This begins to reduce the storage ca
pacity of the reservoir and in time, would put it out of com
mission, something that has happened frequently in some of
the reservoirs in our south and west.
Chall: Have scientists found solutions to this problem of silting?
WCL: No. In North Africa, I found that French engineers adopted the
practice of running muddy water through the turbines, which we
in the United States have not done yet. This is an important
finding. The French thus spill out the muddy water at the dam
and so maintain the full storage capacity of the reservoir.
This muddy water continues on downstream, carrying its load of
sediments in suspension, and does not pick up another load of
sediments below the dam.
Our method in the United States has been to take off water
for the turbines from gates in clear water. When this clear
water has passed through the turbines, it has already deposited
sediments behind the dam. The stream is then ready to begin
work again and will pick up another capacity load of silt —
depending on grade and velocity — and dig into the alluvial fill
of the valley floor. This has been a common occurrence in our
dams in the west. We now know that measures are required to
settle out sediments and we have tried them at Parker Dam in
southern California.
Relations With Other Organizations
Chall: In your research, did you establish any cooperative working ar
rangements with other institutions?
WCL: Yes, we set up cooperation with the experiment stations of the
Land Grant colleges in all forty-eight states. We also had ex
cellent relations with the scientific men of the nation. Dr.
Isaiah Bowman, head of the National Research Council, and I had
many luncheons together and his advice was always valuable. For
years, I had a close association with Robert Millikan ut Cal Tech,
and with J. C. Merriam, President of Carnegie Institute in Wash
ington.
171
WCL: Perhaps it was because of my standing with the National
Research Council and the National Academy of Sciences, and others,
that I was made President of the American Geophysical Union for
three years, from 1 941 -1 944.
We established a national committee to have the benefit of
consultants in planning and conducting our research. The hydrolic
engineers of the country were very much interested in these studies
and gave us excellent consulting service. Some of them were R. E.
Morton from New York, who was one of our brilliant consultants;
L. K. Sherman of Chicago; H. Horner of St. Louis; and Ira Hatfield.
One reason for our success in these research stations was
the complete devotion of the hard-working, capable staff toward
our research objectives. As I made inspection trips from time to
time, they took delight in showing me what they had done and in
turn, receiving my congratulations.
Relations With T.V.A.
Chall: Did you work at all with the T.V.A.?
WCL: Yes. I was invited by David Lilienthal, who was Chairman of the
T.V.A. Board, to come to the Tennessee Valley from time to time
and advise the staff on certain soil and erosion problems they
had encountered. On my first trip to evaluate their works on
erosion control, I pointed out that for the money expended, they
were getting inadequate results from their small check dams in
gullied areas. They were not using the idea of mulch or litter
from natural vegetation to increase the intake of rain by soil.
I emphasized the importance of using this method. I also
urged them to take out of cultivation, sloping lands that were
too steep for safe cultivation of crops. I also advised on the
use of farm planning to integrate the uses of different kinds
of land.
On one of my early trips, I asked to be flown over the
Tennessee Valley to get the general picture. The pilot had an
old plane which delivered an oily odor from the engine. The
pilot, sitting in the seat in front of me, desired to be helpful
and allow me better views of the ground, so he tipped the little
plane sharply first in one direction, and then the other. I
never had such a severe case of air sickness in my life, either
before or since. First I heaved out one side and then a little
172
WCL: later, I heaved out the other side. All this was unknown to the
pilot in the little open plane. It was a terrible experience.
I was called back from time to time to advise on specific
questions that the T.V.A. staff brought up. David Li I ienthal was
always very interested in my findings, as was also their man in
charge of agriculture. But the latter also enjoyed the help of
a county agent who was of the old line Extension Service. While
they sought my advice and were most cordial each time I came,
they did not want the Soil Conservation Service to set up any
demonstration projects in the Tennessee Valley. They did not
want Bennett or his henchmen to have any part in the T.V.A., so
Bennett became very hostile to them.
On a field trip in the drainage of the Knox River in the
Tennessee Valley Authority, the man in charge of buying lands
that would be flooded by the new dam, was reading off names of
farmers whose lands were to be bought for a reservoir site. I
noticed that all had Anglo-Saxon names. I mentioned this and
was told that this area had been settled in early days by a migra
tion of people from England who occupied this isolated mountainous
area and stayed. These Knox River farmers spoke old English as
in Shakespeare's time and were direct descendants of this early
migration.
Also, I was interested in one particular old farmer who
refused to sell his land, because he said that the fire in his
fireplace had never been allowed to go out in more than one hun
dred years. He therefore stoutly refused to sell or move. Fi
nally, the T.V.A. staff agreed to build a crib and place the
entire fireplace in it with the fire going and move it to a new
farm which the T.V.A. had helped him buy. The old man then was
satisfied and the fire continued to burn cheerfully in his new
home.
Shel terbel t Project
Chal I : Dr. Lowdermilk, did you have anything to do with the Shelterbelt
Project?
WCL: Yes. Shortly after I went to Washington in 1933, l-'aphoul Zon
asked me to be the director of his pet idea to put in ^heltor-
belts as they had done in Russia where he had been thoroughly
trained in scientific forestry. While I did not want 1o take
the job as director, for I was busy starting the Soil Erosion
173
WCL: Service, I agreed to give them the benefit of any experience or
knowledge I had on the subject.
People generally had the idea that all one had to do was
to plant trees and they would grow anywhere. Roosevelt had an
nounced a great Shelter-belt Project for the Great Plains. I at
once raised the question about rainfall, in time and amounts, to
know how far west moisture would be sufficient to grow trees.
For I knew that much of the Great Plains area would not support
trees throughout the year.
I proposed that a careful study be made to indicate the
western-most limits favorable to growth of trees for the shelter-
belt and sent this memorandum to Silcox, Chief of Forestry, and
to Rexford Tugwell. This memorandum apparently reduced the first
ambitious plans for the shelterbelt, for the actual plantings
were carried out further to the east where rainfall generally was
more plentiful, as I had suggested.
I advised that shelterbelt trees should be located on con
tours, so as to make use of broad-base terracing to col lect and
hold waters from melting snow and rain storms, and thereby supply
greater moisture. I also prescribed that the drainage ditches
of the highways through the Great Plains should be emptied into
the channels of terraces to supply additional storm water to
stimulate growth of shelter trees. Results were good in these
plantings where extra moisture was given the trees, and the ground
was kept clear of grasses to reduce competition with trees and
grass for moisture.
The shelterbelts were planted within a strip of land about
one hundred miles wide, stretching from North Dakota to Texas.
Each belt of trees was five to ten rows wide with tall growing
trees in the center, such as the Chinese elm, box elder, white
ash and others; and with shorter trees, such as the Russian olive
and shrubs and bushes, on both sides. The main secret of making
trees grow in the shelterbelt zone is to plant them with roots
long enough to reach moisture in dry weather.
As long as there was public works money to spend, the shel
terbelt program progressed rapidly. Young trees were supplied
by the government along with supervision in planting. But far
mers were to do the field work and cultivate and care for the
young trees and prevent damage from livestock.
The program lasted seven years during which time more than
200,000,000 trees were planted on some thirty thousand farms,
making more than eighteen thousand miles of shelterbelt. Their
success depended on farmers' care of the trees, and keeping fences
mended and stock from damaging trees.
174
WCL: Ten years later, in a survey of the shelter-belt, it was
found that only five percent of the plantings had been entirely
removed, and eighteen percent were in poor condition because
cattle had been allowed in; but the remainder were in fine condi
tion. The farmers were well pleased and were planting more trees,
In 1955 some two thousand miles more of shelter-belts were planted,
Use of Civilian Conservation Corps
Chall: I know that at this time in the Soil Conservation Service you
were using large numbers of boys in C.C.C. camps. Can you tell
me something more about them?
WCL: Yes. The bigger we grew, the more camps we used, until at one
time, I know we had 110,000 C.C.C. boys working for us on our
measures to save our soils and waters. The first camps 1 used,
you remember, were at the San Dimas Forest Hydrological Experi
ment Station in 1933. We were then among the f i rst to ask for
and get two camps of two hundred boys each, or four hundred in
all.
These men were mostly unskilled but were eager to work.
This convinced me that these camps were a wonderful method to
get work done rapidly and with a minimum of expense, and at the
same time, keep men at work during the depression years. For
ten years, from 1933 to 1943, we used all the camps we could get
a I lotted to us.
This work played an outstanding role in the rehabilitation
of teenagers during the depression when many were driven to
dubious ways of existence. It gave me great satisfaction to
follow the splendid effect of these camps on young men who, in
great numbers, were leaving impoverished homes and taking to the
road.
Chall: How was it decided which government agency should have camps
assigned them?
WCL: That was one of the big problems. The many agencies of govern
ment, such as the Forest Service, Soil Conservation Service, the
State and National Park Services, and Interior's Land Management
Branch, and others that required a labor force, had to apply for
C.C.C. camps. Applications were due at definite times. If camps
were available, they were assigned by Mr. Robert Fechner, the
"Big Boss."
175
WCL: All bureaus were clamoring for this cheap labor, so we
found ourselves as a new bureau, competing with the old line
bureaus. The Forest Service claimed they should have the most
camps. Then I presented to Mr. Fechner the Soil Conservation
Service viewpoint: that we were concerned with the present and
future supplies of food and fibers, and also with the safeguard
ing of the lands which produce these vital essentials; that to
succeed we had to control flood waters and resulting erosion on
lands of the nation. I pled that the Soil Conservation Service
was surely as vital, or more so, to the nation as forest trees
or other lines of work, and that we should have first claim.
Fechner called in Christopher Granger of the Forest Service
and asked me to come to his office and speak for the Soil Con
servation Service, and while we argued, he listened. Apparently
both Mr. Granger and I were convincing, for he did not want to
make the final decision on the number of camps each could get.
Instead, he said, "The President must decide."
Chall: What kinds of work did these C.C.C. boys do on the land?
Duties
WCL: We had them work on all types of projects across the country.
They planted millions of trees where they were needed for check-
Ing eroding soils, in gullies and on overgrazed slopes; and they
re-seeded thousands of acres of depleted grass lands in our
southwest grazing lands. We had the C.C.C. boys build thousands
of check dams, putting in earth, rocks and brush to catch the
silt and stop the deepening and widening of washes and gullies.
They built hundreds of stock-watering ponds, to catch rain
waters in ravines and gullies and thus hold it so that herds need
not walk so far for available water. This enabled herds to graze
much further out on the range. We also had the boys assist in
building fish ponds and farm ponds. Many of the boys learned to
drive tractors while others did the finishing hand work, such as
spillways and the like.
When our Dust Bowl began to blow, we in the Soil Conserva
tion Service realized the need for special dry-land grasses to
re-plant those parts of the plains that should never have been
plowed. We set up nurseries to grow seed of native western grasses
on which buffalo herds had thrived before cattlemen and wheat far
mers came. To get seeds for the first planting, we had to search
along railroad rights of way. Our men invented a sort of carpet
sweeper, or vacuum cleaner, to harvest the seed of these wild
grasses and in this job of gathering seeds and re-seeding, we had
176
WCL: help from the C.C.C. boys.
The state colleges and experiment stations, incidentally,
had not thought of doing this and were displeased to have the
new bureau taking the initiative, but we continued these Soil
Conservation nurseries until 1953 when they were taken away from
us.
Our use of the C.C.C. camps was not confined just to work
on government lands. Much work was done on private lands, for
the tasks of controlling flood waters and stopping erosion were
often far beyond the ability of individual farmers. Storm waters
indiscriminately run wild across property lines and onto neigh
boring farms where they dump accumulated debris of sands, mud and
sometimes stones, or start a gully eating upward into a neighbor's
farm. Fertile fine topsoils are generally swept downstream to
rivers, and fill reservoirs with sediments and prevent flood con
trol works from functioning.
Management
Chall: How was the management of these camps carried out? It must have
been a big responsibility.
WCL: The control, discipline and housekeeping of each camp required
about ten percent or twenty young men for each camp of two hun
dred. The U.S. Army, with a Captain or a Major as Commanding
Officer, was responsible for camp work and discipline. The re
maining 180 boys were outside workers doing whatever tasks they
were appointed to do.
The assignment of a camp carried with its authority a bud
get to pay for straw bosses to supervise the young men at their
daily tasks. Bureaus or agencies to whom the camps were assigned
provided specialists to teach and supervise the straw bosses.
They usually worked six hours a day. For this work, the
young men received a wage, most of which was sent to their fami
lies, with a small amount paid to each recruit for pocket money.
It was good to see these city boys as well as country boys
have opportunities to engage in wholesome outdoor constructive
work on the lands of their own country. It was good to see how,
with ample nourishing food and exercise, these young men filled
out their bodies in good health and took pride in their work.
177
Flaw in Recruitment
Chall: I understand you felt there was one flaw in this wholesome
undertaking of C.C.C. camps. What was it?
WCL: Yes, that is true, and I had several talks with Mr. Fechner, the
Director, about it and we were in agreement. It was that young
men, or their families, had to be on relief to be eligible to
take part in this constructive program.
I thought it would have been good for all boys, rich and
poor, city boys as well as boys from towns, to leave home com
munities and to travel and to know their country and get a "feel"
for the land, and a pride in having a part in conserving natural
resources as a heritage of our nation. Both Director Fechner
and I felt it might be well to fix the minimum length of such
national service, but not the maximum.
Chall: Were you able to change this admission requirement?
WCL: Unfortunately, we were not able to have this humiliating re
quirement of being on relief modified. As I remember, Director
Fechner thought that the labor unions were afraid such camps —
if all boys were included—might tend to lower wages for union
labor or would reduce jobs for union men.
I felt strongly that a long-range point of view could have
found a way to provide for camps as an outlet for all teenagers,
where rich and poor together might devote themselves to works of
conservation of natural resources of our country.
It was a big disappointment to me and many others when this
mechanism, born of the great depression, was terminated in 1943.
We used as many camps as we could get during the ten years they
were in existence. Then the war called out able-bodied youth
into military service. Now in 1968, we need at least summer
camps for the tens of thousands of students who want .vacation
jobs. Few are to be had, and life for them starts out psycho
logical ly bad.
Basically, our social efficiency should be able to take ad
vantage of the greater efficiencies of automation that releases
manpower from lesser skills for the conservation of natural re
sources.
178
Extent of Erosion in U.S. In I950's
Chall: When you first made your erosion and runoff studies in China,
did you anticipate that they would become so important here in
the United States?
WCL: Yes and no. But my scientific studies to measure rainfall, run
off and erosion convinced me that the wastage of the good earth
by accelerated erosion (caused by man's destructive methods of
using and misusing natural resources), would bring about national
suicide in the United States faster than in other countries be
cause of our high-powered machinery. We ripped up the earth
faster than had ever been done elsewhere.
These exposed soils eroded with each dash of rain and set
in motion a long chain of events, destructive to the land and
to the people who live on the land. I returned feeling I i ke a
missionary who had come back to preach a new gospel — that of
saving the soil and the rains that fell on it.
But of course I did not anticipate that I would be Chief
of Research for the Soil Conservation Service and have a part
in making policies directed at checking or stopping this des
tructive menace to our fair land. The monetary loss annually
to the country is enormous and impossible to reckon in all its
ramif ications.
The top fertile soil averages about seven inches in depth.
Once this soil leaves the field it is lost irretrievably. A
thousand tons would be required to cover one acre to a depth of
seven inches, even if it could be hauled back. Researchers in
the soil conservation stations estimate that nature requires
from three hundred to one thousand years to build an inch of
topsoil, and when seven inches erodes in a few years, two thou
sand to seven thousand years of nature's work goes to waste.
Chall: How widespread was erosion in our country when the Soil Conser
vation Service first got appropriations to begin work to prevent
the destructive work of erosion?
WCL: It was worse than had been imagined. Our survey indicated that
at least fifty million acres had been destroyed for further cul
tivation by gullies. It would take years of work and expense
just to check their growth and plant them up to trees. Further
more, another 150 million acres of arable land was so eroded as
to make farming difficult or unprofitable. About another 100
million acres was fast becoming infected with this disease of
the land. This report was a great shock to our congressmen and
startling information to our thinking people of the country.
179
WCL: Nature itself took this occasion to give a demonstration
of the wind erosion that had damaged our great plains from Texas
to North Dakota, because we had plowed up lands that never should
have been plowed. When fine soils from exposed drought lands dark
ened the skies of the nation, the American people were aroused.
The Soil Conservation Act of 1935 was passed without one dissent
ing vote in Congress, and enormous sums have since been spent to
heal and to cure, when possible, the sick lands of the nation.
Li f e i n Washington
Chall: Life in Washington in the early years of the New Deal appears to
have been quite hectic. Were there compensations?
WCL: Yes indeed, there are many delightful events to remember. Presi
dent and Mrs. Roosevelt set the tone for gracious hospitality.
At this time, government was smaller and more intimate. Chiefs
and assistant chiefs of bureaus were invited to the White House
at least twice a year. In autumn, we attended a ball in the
famous East Room where we danced while all former Presidents
looked out at us from paintings around the wall; in spring, there
was always a garden party on the White House lawn. Mrs. Roosevelt
had smaller affairs or musicals to which my wife, along with other
wives of government officials, was invited.
We shared gracious hospitality and friendships among leaders
of various bureaus and with scientific people in the capitol. My
wife and I remember evenings spent together with the M. L. Wilsons,
the Howard Tolleys, Mr. and Mrs. Milton Eisenhower, Justice
Brandeis of the Supreme Court, Dr. Herbert Putnam of the Library
of Congress, Secretary and Mrs. Henry Wallace, Mr. and Mrs. Gil
bert Grosvenor of the National Geographic.
It was in Washington I established my life-long friendship
with Dr. Chaim Weizmann, who later became President of Israel,
and with Albert Einstein, with whom I had a long and enjoyable
friendship. I enjoyed the friendships of Clyde Marquis, Presi
dent of the International Institute of Agriculture (Rome), Isaiah
Bowman, with whom I had many profitable sessions, and Vannevar
Bush of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and later,
head of Carnegie Institute. Mr. and Mrs. Morris L. Cooke were
close friends. He was head of Rural Electrification. I had close
relationships with J. C. Merriam, head of the Carnegie Institute
of Washington, C. Hart Merriam, first Chief of the Biological
Survey, who was appointed by President Theodore Roosevelt, and
180
WCL: Al Black (Albert G.), Chief of the Bureau of Agricultural Eco
nomics, with whom I maintained a life-long friendship. There
were many, many others whose friendships remain as happy memories
of these Washington days.
Chal I : Where did you live in Washington during the first two years
before your family joined you?
Cosmos Club
WCL: One of the delightful features of these first two years was liv
ing at the Cosmos Club, across the street from the White House
in the old mansion which had been Dolly Madison's home. This
place not only was picturesque and full of historical reminders,
but it was close to everything and within easy walking distance
from our offices in the Winder Building, so that we could come
back for lunches.
But there was another more important attraction about liv
ing at the Cosmos Club. This is the one club in the U.S. where
the criterion for membership is not money or social standing, but
is based solely on whether the member has achieved recognition
for outstanding contributions to knowledge: in the sciences, in
art and architecture, or as an author or historian. Each new
member must be sponsored by several old members and meet the
qualifications for membership.
So daily we had contact with the intellectual elite from
around the world. We met in halls, library, sitting rooms and
at meal times. We attended Monday night lectures and afterward
had talk fests with beer and pretzels. Here important policies
of government were often worked out. It was a stimulating place
to live, and numerous life-long friendships were made here.
Appoi ntment to Survey Old Lands i n Europe and the Middle East
Cha I I : Just when your research work was in full swing, why did you leave
the country and make a survey of land-use in Europe and the
Middle East?
WCL: It seems that I am at heart a pioneer, and, as Kipling said in
his poem, I cannot resist a new challenge to go and find what
181
WCL: lies "Out beyond the ranges." This challenge was brought up in
one of our meetings with the Bureau of the Budget, where we were
presenting requests for enormous sums for our work in the Soil
Conservation Service.
Then one thoughtful member of the appropriations committee
asked if we had made a study of old lands that had been occupied
for two thousand years or more. Did we know, for example, if
there had been problems of erosion and what had been done about
them? He suggested that we might learn much that would benefit
our own farmers and stockmen.
Secretary Wallace, who was sitting in on this meeting, said
we had not made such a survey. Then the chairman of the commit
tee suggested that when the work had settled down a bit more, it
would be a good idea to make such a study.
It was known that I had made a study of the old lands that
had cradled Chinese civilization in its infancy, and had coined
the expression "man-made desert," as the result of man's long
occupation there. The opinion seemed to be that I should go,
especially to the old lands of the Roman Empire that had once
been so prosperous but now lay in ruins. Was the present condi
tion of these lands due to an adverse change of climate or had
it been brought on by man's neglect to protect the lands from
soi I erosion?
ChaM: It does seem that you get well established in doing one impor
tant job and then you are. called to another one. Did you ever
regret this trip abroad?
WCL: No, never once. For it was this survey of old lands that led me
into international work and made the latter years of my life
fruitful and satisfying.
Bennett was delighted. While he often said during the first
years of the Soil Conservation Service, "1 lean on Walter I i ke a
sapling to an oak tree," the Service was now well established, with
capable men in all departments, and it could almost run by itself.
Bennett was popular as a speaker; he was now Chief of the Service
and coveted being called "The Father of Soil Conservation." Since
we had built up the Service from its very beginnings, it was to
his advantage, he thought, to have me out of the picture. But it
worked out to my advantage, I 'm sure.
182
Part III The Soil Conservation Service, 1939-1947
Return to Wash! ngton
Chall: How were you received at the Soil Conservation Service when you
returned?
WCL: Of course the staff knew, and I knew, that Bennett had given my
research work to Mark Nichols permanently, and perhaps some felt
there would be a certain strain. But instead I surprised them
all by appearing in high good humor. I had grown a very distin
guished goatee and appeared at the office that first morning wear
ing a fine Arab Sheik's costume, complete in every detail, includ
ing the elaborate sheathed knife in the sash belt, the baggy
trousers, head dress, and the usual string of amber beads, con
sidered the "figgety beads," to fondle and play with while one
talks.
The result was that all the office staff came by to greet
me and comment on my changed appearance and to laugh heartily.
X
Chall: Did you still hold your same title of Assistant Chief of the
Service?
WCL: Yes, and it was a busy time almost immediately. I had promised
to write a full, detailed report but this could only be worked
on between times. Plans had already been made for me to make
extensive tours around the United States to make talks to our
soil conservation regions and districts, field stations, agri
cultural colleges, schools and farmers, to give them the benefit
of my findings and seek to arouse in them a sense of urgency
about the need to take all steps to safeguard our lands from
soil erosion. For as Nathan Shaler said, "Of all the sinful
wasters of the earth's resources, the very worst are the Ameri
can people." There were some immediate requests to attend to also.
Friendship Wi th Justice Brandeis
Chall: I understand that Justice Brandeis of the Supreme Court was very
anxious to see your report on Palestine.
Fifteenth wedding anniversary, in
Hollywood, where Mrs. Lowdermilk
spoke at a luncheon in the Cocoanut
Grove to raise money to aid refugee
children -- Youth Aliyah. Mrs. Paul
Muni, Chairman. August 15, 1937.
At home on the University
of Nanking campus with "Skip".
1924.
In backyard of Berkeley
home following dinner
party for Palestinian
students. 1947.
In Sacramento, after receiving the
Eleanor Roosevelt memorial award
from Hadassah. May, 1967.
Correction:
Eighteenth wedding anniver
sary August 15, 1940.
183
WCL: Yes, even before my arrival, he had sent word through official
channels that he wished to see my report. He had been very much
concerned ever since the British issued the White Paper, say
ing there was no further economic absorptive capacity for Jews
in Palestine and all immigration must cease. He told some friends,
who later passed on the word to me, that "if Lowdermilk also said
there was no further absorptive capacity for Jews in Palestine,
he would have to give up his dream for which he had been working
and planning."
As soon as a special folder of the report was completed, I
took it over in person to Henry Wallace, then Secretary of Agri
culture, to deliver to Justice Brandeis. The Secretary told me
afterward that he thought he would glance at the first page and
initial it and send it to the Justice, but he read the first page,
and then continued to read until he finished the complete report
of almost fifty typed pages, all in one sitting.
Then he took it over in person to Justice Brandeis and as he
handed it to him, said, "This is the best argument for Zionism
that I have ever read." He was pleased because they were reclaim
ing lands long unused and bringing them back into productivity.
Cha I 1 : Did Justice Brandeis discuss the report with you personally?
WCL: Yes. I believe it was the following Sunday that he had a very
delightful reception for us and invited several other Justices
of the Supreme Court as well as some newspaper men, and the dis
cussions were very lively. The Justice overheard my wife tell
ing some newsmen of the "human cargo" boats, and of the remark
able rescue of orphans from Europe and their rapid rehabilita
tion in Palestine, and asked her if she would speak to the Jewish
women's organization called Hadassah. He said he felt that if
they heard these stories from an outsider's viewpoint, they might
believe what Hitler was doing to Jews and the tragedies that were
happening to them.
My wife is a very out-going person and had been deeply
stirred by the plight of the refugees and immediately accepted.
A week later, Mrs. Brandeis introduced her to a large Washington
Hadassah group; and this led to her speaking to fifteen hundred
at the Mayflower Hotel two weeks later, at their annual donor
dinner. There Mrs. Paul Muni, wife of the actor, heard her and
asked her to speak to her group in Hollywood, where six hundred
women were paying seven dollars per plate to raise funds for the
rescue of the European Jewish orphans.
So Justice Brandeis was responsible for starting her on years
of speaking and raising money for this humanitarian work, in which
she felt or hoped that she was doing her be'it for "Christians to
give the Jews a new deal." That was twenty-nine ye^rs M'JO, -jrvl
I83a
What Vice-President Wallace Has
Said About Walter day Lowdermilk
"Some years ago, I called into the office of the Department
of Agriculture a soil expert by the name of Dr. Lowdermilk. I said
that I felt trouble closing in on the world, and I hoped he could
go to certain lands overseas where there had been ancient civiliza
tions, and discover as completely as possible, the evidence ...
of the way in which soil, and therefore civilizations, had been
destroyed.
"Dr. Lcwderailk took on the task. He returned from abroad
ir.i C2.-5 tc cur office. The very first thing he gave na was a
•• » "4* * ^ * ~ •• * *t* ~" ~ * i * ^'_r*T a^ * ^j - *• ~ TS2l*'tC ** ^""g. *"*^_ j? **^A ^— »•» • 1 » f & v - —
enervations in Palestine. Dr. Lcwderzilk is not of Jewish descent
but he had become the most complete Zionist convert anyone could
ask for.
"In reading Dr. Lowdermilk's report I was convinced that the
material foundations of Zion were very real and deep indeed. Some
of us ... have sometimes wondered how deep in the soil Zionist
enthusiasms were. Dr. Lowdermilk set this question at rest. As
an agriculturist and soil expert, he was profoundly impressed with
the scientific character of the work, and as a human being he was
infinitely inspired by the human beings whom he met there on the
land ....
"The Jewish people have been hungering for some kind of
stability on the land for thousands of years — on that ancient bit
of land which Abraham paid for and which was abandoned for a time
by Joseph and his brethren, but which was built up again, and is
now being resettled for a third time — resettled not by grace of
government help, but through the funds, spirit and tradition of the
Jewish people .
"And so I, a Gentile, close to this effort, regard the trans
lation of this spirit into tangible reality as one of the most
exciting undertakings in the world — for it is a spirit which comes
down from olden times, but is at the same time forward looking."
(Excerpt from an address by Vice-President Henry A. Wallace
delivered on October 31, 1940.)
184
WCL: she is equally concerned and active today whenever occasion
arises. During the present period of crisis in the Middle East,
she has spoken about Israel to many organizations in the Bay
Area — at least once a month, I think.
Chall: Apparently the Palestine experience and Justice Brandeis' intro
duction to Jewish audiences opened up an active new life for her.
Did your contact with him also have a great influence on you?
WCL: A warm friendship existed between us until the time he died. I
was always free to go to him for discussion or advice. 1 remem
ber I discussed with him my growing idea of the "beneficial use
of land": that those who made the best use of land had the right
to use it beneficially, and those whose wrong uses destroyed the
land, forfeited the right to land — much as the legal principle
of beneficial use of water law came into being in southern Cali
fornia. The Justice said, "Yes, I believe it will come about in
time, but you are fifty years ahead of your time in some of your
thinking."
Chal
Speaki ng Tour Across the Uni ted States
Did you start out on your speaking tour immediately after your
return to Washington?
WCL: As soon as possible. There was an enormous amount of correspond
ence needed to plan the tours in the various sections of the
country. Also I had to work up the general lecture, which I en
titled, "The Conquest of the Land Through 7,000 Years." I have
been told that there were more requests for this publication than
for any other Bulletin of the Department of Agriculture. I tried
to give the talk largely with pictures, for as the Chinese say,
"One picture is worth ten thousand words." I had plenty of pic
tures showing what soil erosion had done to lands and cities in
northwest China and the Old Roman Empire.
I always closed with "the Eleventh Commandment," which was
dramatized by showing rapidly moving slides describing each idea
of "the Eleventh Commandment."
Chall: What all did you do on these tours in the United States?
WCL: They were terrifically strenuous. Each region or district wanted
to show me all they had been doing, ask advice on their land
problems, show me their successes and failures, h.jve field and
185
WCL: office discussions, some of which were very technical. Then
there was some entertainment in homes, and always a very large
meeting that had been widely advertised where I spoke and showed
slides. Everywhere there were newspaper and radio interviews.
One of these tours lasted seventy days, without one day of
rest and relaxation. Another tour lasted sixty-five days, and
another, more than forty days. Then there were shorter ones
nearby in the east.
The hard part was that each group of men was fresh and
rested when they met me, just arriving from another district; but
I had to go the strenuous pace they had planned for the short
time I was to be with them. Some of the wives told Mrs. Lowder-
milk that their husbands had to go to bed for a day to rest up
after conducting my activities for three or four days. Yet I had
to keep going week after week, or at least I thought I did.
Our family doctor said I showed symptoms of total exhaus
tion and suggested I rest for three months; but there seemed too
much pressure to stop, and I had always had the good health needed
to make my body do what I wished it to do.
Heart Attack and Recuperation
Chall: Did you contemplate that this pace might lead to a heart attack?
WCL: No, but I knew what was happening on the night of July 17, 1941.
My wife was able to get a doctor almost Immediately, and I was
taken to Mount Alta Veteran's Hospital in an ambulance. Then I
had the nine weeks' rest which I had refused to take some months
before. I had wonderful care and made a complete recovery. I
accepted my limitations and acted accordingly.
1 became for many Exhibit A, in recovery, and was able to
help numerous other men to go ahead — with limitations at first —
rather than give up to being an Invalid. My recovery was rapid,
and soon I was doing light work and planning to make a strenuous
one-and-a-half-year trip to China which had been previously ar
ranged.
Chall: What kind of "easy work" did you do?
WCL: Before the heart attack, I had been elected President of the
American Geophysical Union, one of the largest, if not the lar
gest, scientific organization in the earth's sciences in the
United States. We felt there should be a larger membership. Since
many scientists had never been invited to join, I suggested that we
186
WCL: write a letter explaining the advantages of being a member and
inviting them to join. This letter we sent out to six thousand
scientists, and to make it personal, I signed each letter. The
response was most gratifying.
Then too, during this time I invented a "bomb sight" and
gave it to Dr. Vannevar Bush who transmitted it to the military,
who apparently thought enough of its possibilities that it was
sent on to the field to be tested. However, just at that time
the Norton bomb sight had been tested and proved to be success
ful and mine was dropped.
I began going to the office part time and then full time,
and worked on my long report on the 1938-1939 trip across old
lands,* and the maps and pictures that were to go with the re
port. However, although I wrote hundreds of pages, the complete
report was never finished, first, because of the war, and later,
because of reorganization in the Department of Agriculture. Dur
ing the war, only activities pertaining to the war effort had
first priorities. Increased production of food was considered
the most urgent need.
But the material I had gathered on this trip was made use
of in many ways: at technical and scientific meetings as well
as in talking to farmer groups, to encourage them to continue to
form Soil Conservation Districts and develop their conservation
work. Our job was to urge fanners to conserve the soi I at the
same time they were under the war pressure for increased produc
tion.
I also wrote short articles, such as "The Flag is on the
Plow," which was sent all over by the United States Foreign Ag
ricultural Division. There was also demand to speak on our ex
periences in the Holy Land; for now Palestine was a hot issue,
because the British White Paper cut off all Jewish immigra
tion into the one place designated by the League of Nations as
a "Jewish National Home," and it was still in effect.
Also at this time, I was often consulted by the State Depart
ment regarding help for China, who was now our ally in fighting
the Japanese in the Pacific, for we were just recovering from
the shock of Pearl Harbor. My five years' experience in China
with the University of Nanking, and my expeditions throughout
the areas which were now occupied by Japanese forces, enabled
me to share some important information. Also, at this time I
was under appointment to go to China.
*A Survey of Land Use in Certai n Countries p_t_ Europe and
the NeaV East . A~ copy will be deposited in the Bancroft Library.
187
Writing "Palestine, Land of Promise"
Chall: How did it happen that during this busy time, you agreed to
write a book on Palestine?
WCL: Well, when I returned from our long trip to Palestine in Novem
ber, 1938, Justice Brandeis was very anxious that my long report
should be printed by the Department of Agriculture as a bulletin.
But that could not be done according to regulations because
Palestine was a foreign country.
But as the situation of Jews under Hitler continued to wor
sen, and the slaughter of Jews accelerated, and the British
White Paper continued to exclude Jews from their homeland given
them by the League of Nations and al I ports were closed to them,
the situation was desperate.
Justice Brandeis and Dr. Emanuel Neumann, of the Zionist
Emergency Organization, felt that if an authoritative book on
Palestine were written by a non-Jew, showing how the economic
absorptive capacity in Palestine could be increased for several
million Jews by fully using the unique geographic features of
the country as I had been advocating, it might be of much
i nf I uence.
At first, we resisted the idea. I was too busy getting
ready to go to China in September, 1942. Furthermore, we felt
that there were many Jews much better informed on Palestine, and
therefore more capable of writing such a book, than we were.
But Dr. Neumann knew of my wife's deep concern for the Jew
ish tragedies taking place in Europe and on the old human cargo
boats floating the Mediterranean, so he approached her again.
Finally, my wife argued that if this book would help, and if we
could get it finished before September, it was our duty to do it.
She said that we must forget the family vacation we had planned
and bend all efforts to this supreme endeavor.
Washington summers are not conducive to strenuous work.
But we had a large basement recreation room in which we set up
the ping-pong table and laid out folders for different chapters
that we decided must be written. My wife accepted this chal
lenge as her supreme effort to help clear up a black page In
human history. Day and night she read, took notes, gathered
material on Palestine past and present; and gradually, material
for each chapter grew.
In the meantime, I had to continue some work at the office;
but I had much unused vacation time, and so I went to the office
188
WCL: only one day a week and devoted the other six days to the book.
We both buried ourselves in our basement recreation room, keep
ing our bare feet cool on the waxed concrete floor. We gave up
every other activity in order to complete the book before I had
to leave for China. In the main, the manuscript was completed
before I left on September 7, 1942.
Had I not left the country, the book would not have been
published because of excessive war-time red tape. It was for
tunate that I was away and that it was up to my wife to accom
plish the impossible. How she maneuvered to get the book pub
lished by the time I returned from China is a unique story in
itself. I'll have her add her own story to this chapter.
Publ ishing "Palestine, Land of Promise"
Mrs. L.: Well, as you know, it was war time and there were many restric
tions and much red tape. If my husband had not been out of the
country, the book would not have been published, for he would
have had to go through channels for permission. This required
the O.K. of the Soil Conservation Service, the O.K. of the
Department of Agriculture, the O.K. of the State Department,
and the O.K. of the Office of War Information. Any one of
these offices could have stopped it.
The Soil Conservation Chief, Bennett, had flatly refused
me permission to have it published. Also the State Depart
ment refused for fear that in telling of the fine work Pales
tine was doing in reclaiming the land, we might offend the
Arabs and cause more trouble.
But I knew how hard my husband had worked on the book and
that it was a constructive solution to Middle East problems
in land and water conservation and settlement. Sometimes in
the past, my husband had come out with forward-looking plans
that he had not pushed, and later, others claimed his Ideas
and took the credit. I was determined that this must not hap
pen this time.
I confess it did seem an impossible situation. But being
a minister's daughter whose mother had great faith and whose
motto was, "Nothing limits God but our own limited faith," I
decided that if I could not do the impossible myself, the Lord
could. So I prayed.
189
Mrs. L.: Each time I went down to my husband's office, someone would
say to me, "They won't let you publish the book, they won't
let you publish it." I demanded to know who "they" were.
"Let me talk to them," I said. "Make an appointment for me
here, at this office, this week. "
Three days later, I arrived at the appointed hour. There
came from the State Department a tall, distinguished man, of
the Dean Acheson or Anthony Eden type, who was cordial, but with
an attitude of: I can settle things with this woman in a hurry.
He began with flattery. Then he told how he was a writer in
the First World War in North Africa, but had published nothing
so as not to offend the Arabs and cause trouble for our boys
there; and he was sure I would not want to damage our war ef
fort by disturbing the Arabs.
Of course, I maintained that the book would do no such thing,
because it was a constructive project that would have benefited
everyone.
We argued for an hour or more, and then in the conversation,
I said, "But this book was not written for personal profit or
the idea of making money, but of contributing something con
structive for the Middle East."
Then he clapped his hands in apparent joy and said, "Oh,
Mrs. Lowdermilk, that is just splendid. If this book was not
done for personal profit, then the thing for you to do is to
give the manuscript to us (the State Department) and when the
war is over, we will have it and know what to do about it."
I replied, "Yes, and you would put it away in a pigeon hole
and our hands would be tied. No, I will do nothing of the kind.
This book was done under very great pressure before my husband
left for China, because he hoped it would point a way to solve
land and water and refugee problems for those fleeing Hitler.1'
Only after an hour and a half did he give up, but on leav
ing, he earnestly requested one promise of me — that I would
tell no one of our meeting. I was flushed and about in tears,
which was for me unusual. He assured me I might as well give
up the idea of publication, for I could not receive the wartime
O.K. of so many departments. It seemed a hopeless situation.
But I had seen my mother work miracles by her faith, so I prayed.
My wartime effort, with my husband in China ;jnd our son in
the army, was to use my big house to make a home for several
fine girls who came to Washington from all over the country to
do clerical work. Housing conditions were terrible.
By the way, the magazine, House beaut i f ul , sent down one
190
Mrs. L.: of their editors and a photographer to make a special feature
of my home and my girls, with the hope that others in Washing
ton might follow my example.
A few days after my State Department episode, a new and
very beautiful Texas girl named Fay was sent to me. A few
days later she was driven home in a red convertible. The next
night also. I said, "Fay, who is your friend?
She replied, "He is my boss, George Barnes. He is first
assistant to Elmer Davis who is head of the Office of War In
formation."
Immediately I knew that here was my answer. I told Fay to
invite him to dinner. All was cordial. I gave considerable
background of our travels and my husband's work in land and
water conservation. He enjoyed a home-cooked meal, and I in
vited him for Sunday dinner.
This time, I told in detail of the book: of the plan for a
Jordan Valley power and irrigation project — a T.V.A. for the
Jordan — that would bring prosperity to both Arabs and Jews, in
the combined Palestine under British Mandate, and enable the
country to support several million more people.
Very innocently I told him my husband had to leave for China,
sent by our State Department, and this constructive plan was
left for me to have published. I asked, "Is there any way
whereby the Office of War Information could give me an O.K.
to get this book published without going through all the red
tape of getting O.K.'s from other departments?"
He thought awhile, and then George Barnes said, "Yes, but
first you must take out of the book any criticism of England."
Even though England had cut off all Jewish immigration from the
Jewish national home with the White Paper, I was to remove
any criticism of one of our allies.
Then he said, "Put on the frontispiece: The author wishes
to make clear that this book was written from the point of
view of the land conservationist, whose life work has been to
study the relation of peoples to their lands. The opinions
expressed here are personal and unofficial. They do net nec
essarily represent the point of view of the U.S. Soil Ccnse--
vation Service of which the author is Assistant Chief, or of
any other government department."
The Office of War Information was the highest and final
authority, and I had permission from them to publish the book.
It was a mi racle!
191
Mrs. L.: The Chief of the Soil Conservation Service phoned me in a
rage and said, "I told you not to publish the book. You can
not do it."
I replied that I was given permission by the Office of War
Information and told how to meet all the requirements of war
time. He demanded my instructions and had his '.secretary take
them down. But now it was too late to do anything.
A few days later, a man from the State Department called
me and said he thought I had understood that I was not to pub
lish the book. I repeated my permission from the Office of
War Information, and he too had nothing further to say.
My troubles were not quite over, for I found Harper & Brothers
required a financial guarantee of four thousand copies. I
never dreamed there would ultimately be several editions, so
I asked Dr. Emanuel Neumann of the Zionist Emergency Organiza
tion to assume for me all publication responsibilities, in re
turn for which they could take half the royalties, if there
were any. This proved advantageous for all concerned . They
used their royalties to send a free book to every leading per
son in the United Nations, every leading minister in our big
city churches, and every Congressman and Senator.
We were told this had great influence, for when the British
and Arabs claimed there was no further economic absorptive
capacity in Palestine, there were always those who had read
the book and could quote my husband's plan that would enable
millions more to settle.
Chall: Mrs. Lowdermilk's story is certainly fascinating and enlight
ening, and shows tremendous perseverance against great odds.
How was the book received in the United States?
WCL: Its reception surpassed all our expectations. The New York
Sunday papers and the Washington papers and others throughout
the country gave big spreads and book reviews. They provided
details of the plans for a Jordan Valley Authority, sometimes
in one or two full pages.
The first edition of the book was sold out at once. I do
not remember how many editions there were, but ! believe there
were twelve or more. The book was also printed in England and
was translated into German, French, Spanish, Hebrew, Yiddish,
and Portugese. But in overseas printings, there were no roy
alties involved. By 1950, Harper's was completely sold out,
and we ourselves bought the last few books they kept on file.
We never have been able to find a secondhand book for sale,
though we have tried.
' 9 ' a
HARPER & BROTHERS
PUBLISHERS
49 EAST 33D STREET, NEW YORK, N.Y.
I_f ypu are interested in the great Jewish
caujo i.-i Palestine ... here is a book which
in your hands may become an effective weapon for Justice
Walter Clay Lowdermilk is a noted scientist and soil expert who happens to
be a Gentile. Vice President Wallace sent him to the Near East to "discover,
as completely as possible, the evidence of the way in which soil, and therefore
civilizations, had been destroyed."
Dr. Lowdermilk left for Palestine with a completely open mind concerning
the Jewish cause in Palestine. After months of careful study and observation,
he came back a convinced and enthusiastic Zionist, and wrote of his findings
and convictions in the eloquent new book:
PALESTINE
Land of Promise
Hero is a clear, readable, scientific presentation of the facts about
Palestine. Never has a book been more timely. It deals with questions which
right now are dynamite. In his conclusions Dr. Lowdermilk says:
"If the forces of reclamation and progress Jewish settlers have introduced
are permitted to continue, Palestine may well be the leaven that will transform
the other lands of the Near East. Once the great undeveloped resources of these
countries are properly exploited, twenty to thirty million people may live
decent and prosperous lives where a few million now struggle for a bare exis
tence. Palestine can serve as the example ... that will lift the entire Near
East from its present desolate condition to a dignified place in a free world."
PALESTINE, LAND OF PROMISE, has been greeted by Jews and Gentiles alike
as the authentic, long-awaited answer to questions of paramount importance to
every man and woman of good will. For further information, and for endorsements
by well-known authorities in many fields, see the enclosed circular.
If YOU ... in the words of S. Ralph Harlow of Smith College ... would like
to see "justice and not oil determine the future of Palestine" ... send NOW for
a copy of PALESTINE, LAND OF PROMISE. Read it from cover to cover, know your
facts, talk about it to your friends and associates ... help make Palestine a
haven of peace and security for millions in the postwar world.
To secure your copy of the book, simply fill out the coupon on the back
page of the circular, and mail today in the enclosed business reply envelope.
No postage is required.
Cordially yours,
/
(cvsaj
192
WCL: All the reviews were good. Jewish people of England re
ported that the book had given them a great lift and encourage
ment at a time of darkest gloom over the White Paper and the
situation in Europe under Hitler.
I was told that when President Roosevelt died, the book,
Palestine, Land of Promise, was found open on his desk and
that he was about half through reading it.
We were grateful that we had made the supreme effort to get
the book practically completed before I left for China, and that
my wife was able to get it published by the time of my return.
Commendation Dinner
Chall: I understand that you were given a Commendation dinner in Wash
ington, D.C. because of the book.
WCL: Yes, this was one of the highlights and honors of my long and,
I hope, useful life. As I remember, it was May 24, 1944, and
there were about three hundred guests at the dinner. These In
cluded many Congressmen, Senators, and other political figures
in Washington, prominent clergy, business people, and scientific
colleagues, for I was still President of the American Geophysical
Union, and friends from the Soil Conservation Service, Forest
Service and Department of Agriculture.
The program was carried on a nation-wide hookup by the
National Broadcasting Company, and included speeches by Senator
Robert Wagner, who was Chairman of the evening, by Senator Owen
Brewster, and by Abel Wolman of Johns Hopkins University who
was moderator. So many nice things were said about me that in
my reply, I said that I felt like a pancake after the syrup had
been poured on. It was a beautifully planned and carried out
dinner and a cherished memory always.*
^Transcript of speeches deposited with Lowdermilk papers
in the Bancroft Library.
193
Various Activities, 1944-1947
Chall: I see your last period in the Soil Conservation Service, from
your China return in 1944 to retirement in 1947, covered a wide
variety of activities. What were some of these?
WCL: Yes, there were many field trips over the United States, in res
ponse to invitations to come and speak to various Soil Conserva
tion regions and districts, and also invitations to speak in
Canada. Then in Washington there was the big report on the
1938-1939 trip which I had always hoped to complete.
For a time, I was kept busy drawing up plans for the pilot
projects in China, which my recent trip had convinced me were
necessary. I was also called into consultations in watershed
phases of the Soil Conservation Service Research.
Also at this time, my three-year term as President of the
American Geophysical Union was ending. The membership had grown
rapidly in response to the letters of invitation that we hac sent
out to sc entists and that I had personally signed before leaving
for China. Now I had my Presidential Address to write and give.
I entitled it "Down to Earth," and dealt with the various earth
sciences, especially those with bearing on my previous studies.
This was a splendid affair. My Presidential Address, illustrated,
was published and distributed widely over the country.
Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry on Palestine
WCL: Also during the period before I retired from the Department of
Agriculture, I was asked to present to the Anglo-American Com
mission the possibilities of my Jordan Valley power and irriga
tion scheme. Daily the tragic plight of Jews under Hitler grew
worse and worse and the one place al lotted to the Jews as a
national homeland by the League of Nations was shut and pad
locked by the British Mandate's White Paper.
Pressure was brought to bear, and this Anglo-American Com
mission was established in December, 1945. Six Americans, ap
pointed by President Truman, met with six Englishmen, appointed
by their government. Hearings were held in Palestine, in England,
and in Washington, D.C. There was a demand for the British to
admit 100,000 Jewish refugees from Europe, but the British stead
fastly refused. This was against their policy whorein some
frankly declared that they felt "their interests lay with the
Arabs and oil." To allow more Jews to come in to modernize the
194
WCL: country would, they believed, disturb British-Arab relations.
The British attempt to have members biased in their favor
was not altogether successful . One of our American representa
tives, Bartley Crum, a San Francisco lawyer and one of the foun
ders of the United Nations when it was organized in San Francisco,
wrote a book entitled Behind the Si I ker^ Curtain, which revealed
much of the inside political man ipu I at ions'!
Judge Joseph Hutcheson, an American, was appointed one of
the chairmen to alternate with the British-appointed Sir John
Singleton.
When my turn came, Sir John was in the chair. I had maps,
and portrayed vividly and earnestly the advantages that would
come to Arabs and Jews alike if this project could be put in.
I had gone over the entire project with John L. Savage, who was
the designer and builder of both Grand Coulee and Hoover dams.
The project had been engineered by a donation from the Esco
Foundation. It was estimated to cost at that time 250 million
dollars which could be paid off in fifty years at three percent
interest.
C. S. Chapman, then Under-Secretary of the Department of
Interior, said the United States would be delighted to have the
chance to advance the money, for he said that generally we got
little or no returns from such overseas advancements, but this
would be a sure thing. But England refused this offer and ridi
culed my proposals.
When John L. Savage was asked by a member of the Commission
where he would invest 250 million dollars if he had it, he im
mediately replied, "I would invest it right here in this Jordan
Valley Power and Irrigation Project in Palestine. It is entirely
feasible and if we in the United States had such a unique geo
graphical situation, we would have put in the project long ago."
But as I gave my talk before the Commission, Sir John never
glanced my way, looked at the maps or listened. He acted bored
and looked at the ceiling or played with papers on the table,
showing no interest in this constructive proposal.
When I had finished, he made no comment whatever, but called
on an unknown, nondescript American missionary from Jerusalem,
who was not even a representative of any regular denomination.
Now Sir John was all alertness. He leaned across the table to
drink in every word of the low-voiced minister whom we could
scarcely hear at all.
When he had finished, Sir John in a loud voice accentuated
all important statements by repeating, "Did I understand you to
195
WCL: say that you felt the Jews were responsible for all the trouble
with the Arabs in Palestine?" to which the minister replied,
"Yes"; and so they went on with a number of questions and answers
that were against the Jews. It was all very maddening. The Com
mission's proceedings were all published and somewhere I have a
copy among my things.
The Commission did not succeed in getting the 100,000 refu
gees from Europe admitted into Palestine, but it had educational
value; and the final result was that the United Nations finally
investigated and declared that the British had failed in carry
ing out the Mandate and would have to leave Palesline. The result
was that the State of Israel was proclaimed in 1948, although the
Israelis had to fight five well-armed Arab nations before it could
achieve its national status.
Chall: Apparently, your 1939 year in Palestine and the Middle East gave
you a background for considerable activity in this political
situation.
WCL: Yes, and my interest has never ceased in this remarkable Jewish
reclamation of lands and waters in the Holy Land, which corrupt
Turkish rule and Arab nomads and their herd;> had, through the
centuries, turned into a man-made desert. This initial interest
led me, after retirement from the Department of Agriculture, to
work for about seven years in Israel, six oi which were under ap
pointment by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization.
These years I consider the most interesting in a long life full
of interesting experiences.
Dec i s i on to Ret i re
Chall: Why did you retire from the Soil Conservation Service on your
sixtieth birthday? You were, I understand, in good health, and
in spite of many trips out of the country, you were still Assist
ant Chief.
WCL: There were a number of reasons. It happened that my sixtieth
birthday fell on July 1, which is the beginning of a fiscal year,
and if one is to retire, that is the time to do H. Then too, I
was spending considerable time in consultations and speaking on
my Jordan Valley Power and Irrigation Project. I could see that
my many overseas assignments had led people to speak of me as an
international authority on land and water conservation, and that
if I retired, there might be interesting international consulting
196
WCL: offers that would be more enjoyable than continuing in Washington.
Working for the government in Washington has many compensa
tions. But life can be hectic and heartbreaking. There were
often jealousies and a tendency for ambitious people to knife
any fellow-competitor who stood in his way. This had been back
of my heart attack in 1941, along with exhaustive overwork.
For a long time, Bennett had had an obsession to be called
"The Father of Soil Conservation." I was his only competitor,
though I had no desires along this line. I never wanted or sought
top place, but only to have a challenging job to do and do it
thoroughly and wholeheartedly. The budget had been cut, and ways
had to be found to retrench. Bennett made an appointment to see
me Monday morning, June 30. I never knew what he had in mind.
On Friday evening, June 27, my wife asked me if I thought
I could go through another three years in Washington In order to
retire at a better pension, without having another heart attack.
I thought a moment and then said, "I don't think I could."
Whereupon my wife said, in no-uncertain terms, "AM right. Mon
day morning, June 30, at nine o'clock, you walk into Bennett's
office and inform him that you have retired as of June 30, 1947."
So this is what I did. His expression was of startled re
lief. For the moment he was speechless. But the Soil Conserva
tion Service was stunned. Bennett gave me an appreciative let
ter on retirement, and Clinton Anderson, Secretary of the
Department of Agriculture gave me a written lifetime appointment
as Collaborator, with the Department.
ChaM : Did you ever have any regrets about your early retirement?
WCL: No, never once. It was one of the best things that ever hap
pened to me. The next ten years were the richest and most
satisfying of my entire life. The overseas assignments far
exceeded all expectations. Sometimes the work was more strenu
ous than in Washington; but I had no heartaches, only tremendous
satisfaction doing things that needed to be done in other coun
tries to help people safeguard their lands from erosion and con
serve their waters, so that they could grow more food and give
a better life to their increasing populations.
Chall: Did you leave Washington immediately?
WCL: Yes. We returned to our lovely home In Berkeley, with its mag
nificent views of cities and water and Golden Gate, only five
blocks from the University campus. We had been renting it for
all the past fifteen years and we were happy to bo home. We gave
the entire place a ''face-l i fting" both inside and out: fresh
paint and a modernized kitchen made the entire pl.jce seem like
197
WCL: new. The garden had overgrown, and while we were putting it
into shape we had the feeling that we were cutting out a
forest. We left only a giant redwood at the side and a large
Cedrus deodar at the front. Just as all was in readiness for
gracious living, the first appointment came for overseas work.
THE YEARS IN WASHINGTON, 1933-1947
[Taped questions and answers]
Part I The Soil Erosion Service and the Soil Conservation
Service, 1933-1938
Knowledge of Erosion in 1933
Cha I 1 : When you began to work in Washington, the knowledge about soil
erosion was still quite limited, was it not?
WCL: Very few people had any comprehension of what erosion was do
ing. In fact, it wasn't until some of us, and I was one of the
few, began to measure erosion, that we had any conception of the
quantity of eroded material that had come off of America's land.
And there were misconceptions, probably more misinformation
than there was information. For instance, you had people in the
early days in erosion work who would say, "What? Are you going
to stop the erosion of the Grand Canyon?"
Chall: Oh.
WCL: They entirely misunderstood. This is what I call a geologic
norm of erosion; and it goes on, varying of course with the
conditions, the amount of rain and so on, but it goes on slowly.
The valleys are excavated by the rivers but it takes a long
time. There is time for the soil to accumulate on the slopes
and differentiate into what we call an A-rise, or a B-rise, and
what we call topsoi I . And yet the river is excavating, but the
formation of soil is a slow process. So the rate of excavation
of the valley isn't very great.
But when you remove your vegetation and bare the land to
the blasts of rain and the blasts of wind, then you Induce
another type, what I call an accelerated phase of erosion. And
that's the erosion that we want to bring back to -he geologic
norm.
Chall: I see — man-made erosion, in a sense.
198
199
WCL: It was my analysis of just this thing that got me my job with
Tugwell when he was out here looking us over. We had sessions
with him, and I wanted to show him how we had to clear this
concept of what we were trying to do, to have it really clear-
cut in our minds. He was a man who was very intelligent; you
didn't have to tell him twice. Then he insisted that I be As
sociate Chief of the Soil Erosion Service. Well, here we were,
a new science, a new movement, and it spread over the country
qu ickly .
Controversies Among Special i sts
Bennett vs. Kellogg: The Extent of Erosion
Cha I I : I want to ask you about the differences between the figures of
Hugh Bennett and those of Charles Kellogg, with respect to the
amount of real damage there had been to the soil because of
erosion.* Mr. Kellogg, it seems, estimated that 160 million
acres were relatively undamaged and presumably could be farmed
safely by present practices. Bennett, in the Soil Conservation
Service, estimated that only 114 million acres were undamaged
and presumably could be farmed safely with present practices.
Was this a long-standing controversy, did it have much meaning
then?
WCL: Back of Kellogg was the fact that he was chief of the Soil Sur
vey, following Marbut. [Curtis F.D Marbut was a magnificent
scientist. Kellogg was a brilliant young man who was Marbut's
choice for the Soil Survey. This was before the depression,
and before this program for developing soil conservation work
on a big scale.
Bennett disregarded Kellogg and set up a Land Use Capa
bility classification of land which involved a soil survey and
also indicated what kind of measures were needed to control
erosion if the land was cleared and cultivated. Bennett wanted
to differentiate what we were doing from what Kellogg was doing.
Kellogg had appropriations for soil surveys which did not allow
for a very big staff.
But we must recognize that this was a depression, and the
*Charles M. Hardin, The Politics of Agriculture (Glencoe,
Illinois: The Free Press, 1952), p. 16.
I99a
lAHMSRS OP 40 CENTURIES SPEAK TO THE FARMERS 0? AMERICA
Mrs. W. C. Lowdermilk
Wife of the Vice-Director, Soil Erosion Service
U. S. Department of the Interior
National Broadcasting Co., Farm and Home Hour
Station Y/MAL. 712 - llth St., N. W.t Washington
March 22, 1935
Time: 12.35 P. M.
Doubtless many of my radio audience think of China in terms of
famines, floods and low standards of living. The 1933 Census gives China
a population of 492,000,000 people. Almost a half billion, sprawled half
way across Asia, where they have lived since the dawn of history. Almost
350 million are rural peoples. In this long period of land use, the de
structive forces of land wastage, which have helped reduce China to her
present economic condition despite some measure of soil protection, are
working much more rapidly on our farms in America.
China's first settlers found, as did our pioneers, a land compara
ble in size to the United States and equally well endowed with forested
mountains, rich valleys and other natural resources. China dates the
periods of her "Golden Age" from 200 B. C. to 1200 A. D. when there was
abundance for all and every one was honest. Then why this poverty and
decline. One evidence greets the traveler on the ocean, a hundred miles
"before land is sighted, in the form of a great yellow pathway coming out
of the mouth of the Yangtse River as it pours forth the rich silt laden
waters from the farm and mountain lands of central China. The Yellow Sea
is so named "because for centuries the Yellow River has dumped "billions of
tons of soil from the loess lands and denuded watersheds of north China,
Mrs. Lowdermilk wrote and read two scripts which were designed to arouse
an interes't in and an. understand! ng about soil erosion in the United
States.
200
WCL: big job was to put men to work. Some of us, and I happened to
be in that early group, were measuring, and recognizing that soil
erosion was not only a national, but a world-wide problem. The
difference in attitude on the part of the Soil Survey and Bennett's
direction of the soil conservation work caused a sort of running
battle for some time. I remember we had many conferences and both
were arguing all the time I was in the Service. Kellogg, for ex
ample, insisted on the scientific accuracy of his approach to the
problem.
I once said to Milton Eisenhower, "Kellogg should be over
in our Service, because the Soil Survey is basic to our program
in evaluating the problem of soil erosion and what needs to be
done." I told him 1 could handle Kellogg, that we got on very
well. But some of the other bureaus were afraid this would give
the Soil Conservation Service too much power in the Department
of Agriculture.
Chal I : More than it already had?
WCL: Kellogg and his staff were good soil surveyors.
Chal I: Was it a difference then in the basic assumptions of how you
classified soil that made Kellogg's figures different from yours?
WCL: Of course, there was a tendency there on the part of Kellogg's
people to discount the statements that Bennett made about the
seriousness of the problem. But I approached this issue, inde
pendent of these two points of view, and 1 found, especially
in those areas where the land was gullying, it was as bad or
worse than we estimated.
Kellogg would accuse us of exaggerating the seriousness of
erosion. But I was intent on taking the longer range view. In
my presidential address at the American Geophysical Union, Down
to Earth,* I specify that this damage by erosion had gone on for
so" long throughout the world, that in many places the soil had
been washed off to bedrock.
Chall: You have pictures of it.
WCL: Yes, pictures and measurements of it. In a way, my approach
more or less checked with Bennett's, rather than with Kellogg's.
*Lowdermilk, Walter Clay, Down to Earth, Presidential Ad
dress, American Geophysical Union, "Transactions,1' 1944,
pp. 195-213.
20!
Silt Problems in Reservoirs
WCL: In some cases the long-range problems hadn't been accounted for.
For instance, it was our Service and a dear old mtm by the name
of Henry Eakin, to whom I gave the job of running sediment sur
veys in the reservoirs of the United States. During the period
of the Soil Erosion Service, he came to me to apply for a job,
and when I found he was interested in sediments o1 rivers, I
said to I ekes, "Here's a man we want. We h.ave accused this ero
sion of damaging our land, but now, in the legal sense, we have
to account for the body, the corpus del icti ." [laughter] If
so much has been eroded, where is it?
When I presented Eakin's appointment to lcke<> for approval,
I said that we had been complaining about all thic.> erosion and
now with Eakin's appointment, we would have a good chance to
check its severity. We made Eakin responsible for the survey
of the condition of reservoirs and the degree to which they were
filled with sediments. We got the history of the reservoir,
when the dam was built and its original capacity. Before we
appointed Eakin, there were very few cases where any resurveys
had been made.
We published Eakin's bulletin. It was most authoritative
and revealed startling results. This resurvey of the reservoirs
of the United States enabled us to measure fhe amount of sedi
ments captured behind important dams of the country. This was
the first time we had an accurate measure of quantities of sedi
ments.
In many, many parts of the country, especially where res
ervoirs impounded by dams had been in operation fifty years or
more, many of these reservoirs were silted up to the crest of
the spillway and were out of commission. Some of these had
been used for the production of hydropower in the southern states
where soil erosion had been accelerated due to unwise cultiva
tion, without conservation measures, during the past century.
Chall: I see. This suggested what will happen to more recently con
structed reservoirs.
WCL: Exactly. Now we had a factual story to present to Congress. We
were able to say that this damage was really serious and very
alarming.
202
Reasons for Sedimentation Studies
[Written by Dr. Lowdermilk for insertion here]
While sediments collected in reservoirs behind dams gave us impor
tant and significant information on work of rivers in eroding banks,
transport and deposition of materials that had been eroded from a catch
ment area, yet these sediments did not account for all the eroded material
in a river basin. We must recognize that work of streams and rivers sort
these materials into suspended loads and bed loads.
Suspended loads are made up of fine soil particles that are evident
in muddiness of storm runoff and streamflow. Such fine materials are
carried downstream in one trip. They may be deposited in eddies of streams
in high stages and be eroded in bank cuts again and again, and be trans
ported for shorter or longer reaches of a stream.
It is comparatively simple to estimate the amounts o1 the fine soils
transported by streams by sampling of streamflow for determining relative
amounts of fine sediments. In hydrologic studies it is common practice
to do just this to forecast the I i f e of a reservoir.
Measuring of bed load is another matter. Bed load of river sedi
ments is made up of gravels and coarse to fine sands that are transported
only comparatively short distances downstream. The coarser the gravels
and pebbles, the shorter are the trips made by bed load materials. Meas
urements of bed load materials are difficult to make in open streams.
But our branch of sedimentation under the direction of Henry Eakin
and with the consultation of Hans Albert Einstein (son of Einstein the
Great) designed and set up installations on an important river of the
Piedmont in South Carolina.
Eakin found that much could be learned from the sizes and shoaling
action of river sediments captured in reservoirs that impounded the
f low of streams.
We had planned to make surveys of such shoaling action of streams,
of deposits of sediments in stream channels and in reservoirs, and of
amounts of soils eroded from sloping fields under different types of
land uses. These studies were designed to establish indicators of the
amounts of soils eroded, degree of sorting, and amounts deposited in
stream channels and reservoirs.
Such fundamental studies would have given us essential data on the
extent and degree of land wastage under more and more intensive agri
culture. Such information was needed for long-range planj, of develop
ments. These investigations were dropped prematurely or cibandoned, as
appropriations were being decreased after rigors of the great Depression
d imi n i shed.
203
\
Soils Men — Interpreting Erosion
Chall: Well, let's discuss your attitude as a forester and geologist
going into the Soil Erosion Service. I think that the Service
was dominated by soils men. How did you fit In?
WCL: think generally we were in agreement with what we found.
There had, in the past, been differences of opinion even among
soils men themselves as to the meaning of erosion. Bennett had
his ideas of erosion, based on erosion of the soil profile.
Marbut, Chief of the Soils Survey who retired in 1935, had a
principal interest in classification of soils in ciccordance with
the principles and discoveries of Russian soil scientists, while
I came in as a geologist, looking at processes of planation of
landscapes.
1 created the term "geologic norm of erosion," as would
occur in the state of nature. I also created the term "ac
celerated erosion," where man and his agencies exposed the land
to the dash of rain and blasts of wind, and this bared soil
eroded faster than geologic erosion which goes on no faster
than new soil is formed; and so accelerated erosion rapidly
destroys the top soil and with it the productivity of the land.
Whitney and Marbut
WCL: Marbut and Kellogg were surveying soils that had been eroded
off the land to subsoil. Whitney CMiltonJ laid down the rule
that if you find a soil profile that is eroded down to subsoil,
you survey it as that.
But Bennett said, "No. If this is a remnant of a profile,
you must give recognition of what has happened to the land.
But Whitney never did agree to that. In his surveys of
soils, he recorded facts that he had observed and made no at
tempt to interpret what had happened to the soil. So he would
not map the interpretation of what had happened to the soil.
Chall: How long did Whitney stay in the Department?
WCL: Whitney stayed on until he retired and was succeeded by Marbut.
Later, Marbut chose Kellogg to succeed him when he retired.
Marbut was a great man. When we were in Oxford prior to
the International Soils Science Congress, I urged Marbut not to
go on to take the trip across Russia to Manchuria as was planned,
204
WCL: But he was adamant that he must go. Unfortunately while on the
long train trip across Siberia, he took pneumonia and died.
This was a great loss and we were all saddened.
Mar-but and I both took part In the International Soil
Science Congress in Oxford, England, where I gave my paper on
soil erosion that surveyed our situation here in America, a new
country. It was translated into several different languages.
Chall: Yes, 1 think I have read that.
WCL: This was also the time when the Russians had their opportunity
to explain their new theories on the formation of soils. Mar-
but had been so interested in what the Russians were doing that
he got up very early every morning to study Russian so he could
read their books on soils. This was an epoch-making Interna
tional Soils Science Congress. However, it was Marbut who domi
nated the sessions at the Congress.
Demonstration of Erosion
WCL: Bennett recognized that a soil profile can be so damaged that
it isn't like the original soil. I also believed this and often
had occasion to demonstrate this fact. For instance, we had
some agricultural people from China. I had been to China and
could speak some Chinese. I took this delegation into South
Carolina to see our work. I took them up on a rounded ridge
which had never been plowed. It had oak trees and tulip pop
lars. It was a native, natural primeval forest.
I had a spade along and 1 dug down through the litter to
the decomposed leaves below the fresh leaves. Then we dug fur
ther and came to the zone where the earthworms and I ittle or
ganisms and insects bore through. It's a very porous medium.
I call this the decomposition zone. When heavy rains fall on
this decompositional zone between the top of the litter and the
mineral soil below, water flows out clear. The surface soil was
a gray-brown color. We dug down fourteen inches and came to
bright red soi I .
I said, "Compare this with the field out there. The fields
that have been cultivated and eroded are red, like this red
sub-soi I here."
And here where we sat under the trees was fourteen inches
of topsoil, but you see, the fourteen inches of topsoil out
there in the field had eroded off. This was a realistic demon
stration of what had happened to these formerly good farm lands.
205
Problems of Recording Erosion
Chall: I suppose the examples of erosion might not always be so clear
cut.
WCL: When a survey is made after soil is lost, they record what they
find at that time. But this does not include what was there
before, nor show what has been lost. I found this true, espe
cially. in our aerial photographs which we enlarged for maps for
farmers.
Carroll, of Carrollton, was a lawyer in New York who had a
farm on lands that had been granted to Lord Baltimore in Mary
land. He wanted to start a Soil Conservation district in his
region and asked me to talk with the farmers, in the hope they
would organize a district.
He had a map of the farm that had been made from a survey
about a hundred years before. It showed some portions of a field
where there were no streams, bushes or trees, just smooth fields.
We compared this with two aerial photographs, one made some time
before, and one more recently when the fields were being planned
for conservation.
In the middle of the former, there were apparently gullies
that had cut across this once-smooth field, and here an occasional
bush had grown in the gulley, which one could see in the aerial
photograph. And then in the last photograph, this whole big
field that was formerly smooth, was cut up by several gullies,
and trees had grown tall in these.
Chall: I see. You would have thought that's the way the land had
always been?
WCL: Yes. This kind of evidence can be passed over without recogniz
ing the soil loss that has taken place in a field. One may have
a certain number of acres at one time; but as time goes on, gradu
ally those acres were lost for cultivation, so that the final
field is less than the original area. But this tragic fact isn't
shown in the records. So the cultivatable lands of the earth are
being diminished in the face of the urgent demands of an increas
ing population.
Foresters: Changing Concepts
Chall: Now I'd like to find out from you about this activity in 1934,
when you and eleyen other prominent foresters, including Zon,
206
Chall: Sllcox, Pinchot, and Clapp, petitioned the American Society of
Foresters, complaining that the Journal did not represent the
broad social ideals of the founders of the Society.
WCL: Where did you find this reference?
Chall: It's in the Journal of Forestry of October, 1934.
WCL; Raphael Zon was the ferment back of this, for he had a high
degree of social responsibility. He resented that lumbermen
exploited the forests with no thought of renewal of a forest
stand. The petition was published along with answers written
by Edward Reed and Emanuel Fritz.
Chall: You twelve were dubbed the "Unholy Apostles."
WCL: Of course, I went along with foresters who were concerned with
the development of our resources for multiple use:; and restora
tion of the forest stand. Here is where philosophies encoun
tered one another with violent reactions. It was a stage in
the normal course of the exploitation of a pristine, newly-
occupied country.
What it really comes down to is whether to treat forests
only for timber and ignore other values that may bring benefits.
And this applies also in our control of waters and reservoirs.
We now do not think of building a dam to store water unless we
evaluate the multiple uses that may be made of the stored water
and also include the social objective. If we turned over all
our forests and waters to private initiative entirely, they
would not include these multiple benefits and would say, "Private
Property. Keep out."
Chall: And this was one of your attitudes during this period?
WCL: Yes. To develop the resources for multiple use, for maximum
realization and maximum values for our people, has been what
I have pounded away on for half a century. A forester, to be
true to his profession, must be a kind of socialist to safe
guard these multiple uses for the people.
Lumbermen now are becoming much more intelligent in this
matter. They recognize that they can't take the attitude, even
on their land, of saying, "Everybody keep off. We're going to
block this off from any access." Now even lumbermen say they
will open up their forests to camping, so you see, we are making
progress.
207
Plant Men vs. Engineers
WCL: For instance, there was a time in our conservation movement when
the plant branch and engineering branch were at loggerheads, be
cause the plant people said that engineers do not stop erosion,
only plants stop erosion. The engineers measured erosion at the
end of water outlets. Of course erosion that had gone on plus
and minus up in the drainage did not all come down to the outlet,
So a portion of it was not measured. These two branches got
awfully heated up over this, primarily because they had separate
budgets and had a fight between their budgets.
Integration and Coordination of Special ists
Chall: Even though there were controversies among and between special
ists, the desire in both Erosion and Conservation Services was
to integrate specialties, was it not?
WCL: Yes. Our biggest trouble was with this coordinated attack. We
recognized that we must integrate the specialties of a number of
fields of interest in order to get the solutions that we needed.
For instance, a very able plant breeder would want to
develop a strain of wheat resistant to rust, that would be a
very high yielder, so he might turn the seed over to a farmer
whose wheat field was eroding. He did not discuss, with the
farmer about erosion because that wasn't his specialty. He
served the farmer only in his narrow interest.
We said this Isn't good enough. We must integrate, and
then adjustment must be developed on the basis of the charac
teristics of the land and what it needs to make it fully pro
ductive. We had to have soils men and agronomists and pasture
men. And then for the west, with these open range lands, we had
to have a range management man, which is a separate specialty
from that of farm pastures. We also needed foresters for wood lots.
Wood lots
Chall: Can you give me some examples of how you coordinated these
specialties?)
STJffiP JGETUIO
September 25. 1934.
(Essence of discussion; this ia not a verbatln transcription)
PRESENT* LOVDEluMILK, CAPJSEH, STEPHEHSOff, CHAMBERS, JOTTER, WKSTON.
FULLER, end LIHDLE?.
207a
LOWDERUILKi
You have, I think, thia nonorondun, -rfiich is on atterpt to cot up
sono of tho objectives of the Soil Erosion Sorvico cud getting the
- nachinory to vrork. Y/s ought to keep in nind tint our organization
was established for a definite purposo. Tho principle thine ia to
keep in nind what our purpose ia so that re con do the job. Ono of
the essential features — Bennett's motor stroke •*- io bringing
together of specialists to do all that is necessary to do on that
tract of land, sone-lMng that is novr in govomr.cat» I was talking
to a man fron India/ today, a scientist on coil and grazing problems.
Suoh difficulties! are; not confined to thia country olono. But thin
is entirely unique in our Government and tha lack of thia objective
has brou,->it about inoff ectivcnoa-: in this field of work. There haa
been a lack of coordinationthat ia obvious in tho agricult ural eccper-
inent ctationo. Our job is to obviate those difficulties. That mat
bo the £uidins star of our organization BO that we can E°t a corposite
solution of our problens. Thoro is another feature about dealing TTith
cciontifio non, A nan has authority of two kindai (1) authority of
hicposition, which is an orcpnization affair, and (2) as a specialist.
lie speaks vrith authority on that field* Tloat is one of the aspocta
rhich separate us fron an ordinary business organization. It is alee
one wo do not v.-ajit to stiflo* There rre got constructive ideas toward
tho solution of problens confronting us» In all our. regional projects
tho Regional Director has a staff of cpccialiots and ho coordinates
those specialists. That is his particular job, to see that all of
then focus their at.' Dirt ion on the vrork at hand* and that no one cpoo-
ialty is oxnhasizod over tlao others. That ia one of tho nost diffi
cult things tre IIT.VO to do. In inany projects it is working vary Mcely*
TThcn we cone up to our \faGhington office wo have not quite that scne
hero. Sono of tho Chiefs of Brrxchoa have not been functioning*
Tliat is one of tho things wo have called this neoting for. 7.'e \?ant to
got ideas fron evoiyono. There is possibly different ways of doing Iti
Vl) To rsJ:a responsible to i2ao Director essentially tno persons, tho
Chief of Operations anl Chief of Technical Division, each one to coord
inate work in his fiold; (2) Have a znribor of bronchos responsible dir
ectly to the Director, with on Administrative Assistant who transmits
the material and keeps the mterial going to the Chiefs of Branches
and see that tho natorial gets to then* see that ratters of business
should be aoted on, and if tcro or noro should know about it, see that
they do know about it. One of the principal t hings is that the Chiefs
of Branches have not been functioning, and another thizg is to get
then to*
CARRIER » In what way have they not been funofcioningT TThy are they falling domt
LCWDERlULKi A great deal ia because tho natters for their attention have not been
going to them. They have boon going to Bennett and swanping hin- The
thing is to get the ratters to •then without burdening Bennett.
CARRIBRt He has been letting it ooso there without passing 'tt «rt and has been
trying to handle it hinnolf.
208
Yes. For example, we were the ones that showed the farmers of
the south especially, that they had in their woodlots a very
valuable resource. Because ordinarily the gyppo, or small-scale
logger, would come around and say, "Don't you want to cut your
woodlot?" And the farmer knew nothing about forestry, or about
his species or their characteristics, and he would say, "Yes,"
and they would agree to a price. And then this gyppo would come
in and cut down everything.
hired John Preston, a very good man and an excellent
forester; he was my Chief of Silviculture when I was in Missoula.
We offered him this job and he accepted it.
So the foresters, under Preston, went out to the farmers
and said, "Look here, you are wasting this resource. If you
will mark the trees that are to be cut, and not turn the entire
woodlot over to the gyppo but save this job until wintertime
when you have nothing else to do, then you can cut the trees
that are marked. You will leave a young stand to continue to
grow and protect those small trees, so that they're not des
troyed. You can haul your timber crop (in the south, it was
for pulp wood, about eight feet long) so all that money that
you would ordinarily pay out, you actually earn — as an Income."
Of course, we had our professional foresters to teach the
farmers the principles of marking and cutting, and how to main
tain the stand in a satisfactory condition for reproduction.
Then in probably ten years, farmers would have another cutting
from the younger and smaller trees. This went over big with
the farmers.
Then we'd plant up the gullies with black locust trees for
rapid erosion control and fence posts, and pine trees for pulp
wood. It wasn't more than about fifteen years until the pines
were big enough to harvest for pulp wood, so the farmers began
to get earnings and make money out of these gullied areas that
formerly were absolutely wasting away. The farmers liked this
too.
On this has been built up a big pulp industry in the
southern states that depends on trees and logs from these re
claimed areas that were formerly cut up with deep gullies and
ravines.
Chall: Well, that was a very good outcome. Was this integration of
forestry with soil conservation a new concept?
WCL: Soil conservation was usually thought of in terms of agronomy
and field crops. There was quite a group of agronomists who
didn't consider forestry as a part of the cropping of land and
paid little attention to it. But I came to this soil conservation
209
WCL: field as a geologist and a forester; my Interest was in the for
est and also in soil conservation. They must be integrated into
the landscape as we develop the resources as a whole.
Gullies
WCL: But now, another need for Integration — for instance, in these
planted-up gullies we had wildlife. Why would the Erosion
Service be interested in wildlife? In these gullies, after we
had planted Lespodisa and other plants that produce seeds which
game, especially quail, live on, game came in and rapidly in
creased in numbers, providing game for hunters.
Later our farm ponds became part of the farm enterprise.
The farmer had a pond with a tank as a safeguard against fire,
but he also had a place where the family could go boating and,
when he stocked it with fish, enjoy fishing. This farm pond
added to the variety of food, the income and pleasures of the
farm.
Farm Ponds
Chal I : It would take a rather large farm, wouldn't It, to be able to
plant up gullies and also have a pond big enough for recrea
tion? Were these large farms you were working on?
WCL: No, these farms in the southern and southeastern states were
sixty, eighty or a hundred acres. Even the Ben James farm was
a hundred and one acres.
Chal I: You weren't able to put ponds on all of these were you?
WCL: Oh yes, a pond won't take but a quarter or half an acre.
Probably an acre would be a good-sized farm pond — that would
be 209 feet on each of four sides.
Chall: These ponds were for water in case of fire, and they were also
for boating and fish, and for supplemental irrigation in dry
spells. I've seen some of the recent literature on farm ponds,
and I didn't realize that so many had been made.
WCL: I personally get satisfaction from having helped develop certain
things. When I made my land-use survey in '38, I heard of the
region of Les Domes In France, where the farmers used a rotation
of crops and fish. The country was gently rolling with depressions
210
WCL: and little hills that served as boundaries. French farmers diked
them off, down a streamway, into fields that were like ponds.
Part of the year they were used as fish ponds, where carp was
grown on a three-year rotation.
The farmers flooded this area and stocked It with fish, and
kept them for a two-year period. They started with fingerlings.
And in the meantime, an organism grew on straws of the flooded
stubble, and the fish lived on those organisms to a great extent.
Then the farmers emptied the pond, and harvested and marketed
their crop of fish. I have some fine pictures of this being
done.
After the farmers had harvested the fish crop, they sowed
grain. The soil had been partially fertilized by the fish, but
they added more fertilizer to have a good crop. It might be
wheat, rye or barley. Then after the grain crop was harvested,
the stubble was left; then the field was again flooded and the
process was repeated. French farmers found they could grow more
value and poundage from fish than during the rotation period of
grains, to feed livestock on the same area.
I reported this and wrote it up in detail as one of the
findings I made on my trip to Europe, because I realized how
this could apply very well in the eastern and central parts of
the United States, where there was rainfall enough. Generally,
we have about forty to fifty inches of rain, which Is more than
that in central Europe. As a result of my study and report, we
developed in our Soil Conservation Service the designing of farm
ponds, and the farmers liked it.
I remember an interesting example about a farm pond and
the problems of soil erosion. A farm planner had worked out a
pond for a farmer and had brought in the drainage from fields
above it into the pond. After this pond had been going some time,
the farmer complained and asked for one of our biologist fish
specialists, who were on call at state headquarters.
The farmer said his fish were dying. Our specialist looked
the situation over and saw fish floating dead in the water.
Then he said, "Do you know why your fish are dead?" "No."
"Well," he said, "they've starved to death." "How could that
be?" the farmer asked.
The specialist replied, "Did you look at the water in the
pond? It's muddy. The sunlight can't get through."
Now these fish were a type that live on organic growth.
The muddy water prevented sunlight from activating growth of
food plants for these fish, and so they had starved to death.
211
WCL: Then he asked this farmer, "Do you realize why your water
; muddy? Look up there. This water comes from a plowed field,
and the runoff is bringing mud down Into your pond. As long as
you have that, you can't produce any fish."
Our specialist said, "You've got to stop the erosion on
your upper field." The farmer said, "I'll do that immediately
so I won't lose another fish." [laughter] Now this Is one of
the cases where this indirect means was more effective than tell
ing him directly what to do.
Gett i ng Cooperation of the Farmer
Philosophy Regarding Cooperation With the Farmer
Chall: I have wanted to ask you about the effectiveness of this in
direct approach. Did it always work, or were there times when
farmers did not respond?
WCL: Ordinarily, they responded well. Our work was rewarding. If we
were successful in solving a problem for a farmer to save his
fish, one had great satisfaction. When a farmer saw something
was to his self-interest, ninety-nine times out of a hundred he
would act in a logical way.
For instance, in this question of erosion into the pond,
when the farmer saw what killed his fish, he was keen to do what
was necessary.
Our biggest problem was to get this type of high-quality
service to farmers who wanted it. There was always a demand for
more than our limited staff could deliver. We were refused a
bigger staff because already we had become the largest bureau
in the Department of Agriculture. They were afraid of us daugh
ter], afraid we would incorporate them.
Chall: What if you came across farmers who were illiterate, or very
poorly schooled, would they cooperate with you? Or would they
answer, as one you mentioned did, "Me and my two sons have al
ready wore out three farms, and this one Is about wore out. We
don't need anyone from Washington to tell us how to farm."
WCL: If you find this hostile attitude, it's generally somebody who
has suffered some loss, or indignity, or failed, or broken down.
212
WCL: He has lost his sense of values, if he had them.
Chall: Then you did find some who would not cooperate?
WCL: Rarely, but we were so busy responding to those who were asking
us for help that we let these few go by.
You see, when one begins to deal with God's good earth in
this way, one is dealing with holy processes that have deter
mined the earth; and our survival depends on how well we under
stand and interpret and apply them.
I always tried to get our men to think of this interpreta
tion. I said, "You have two responsibilities: you have a res
ponsibility to the farmer to be practical so that what he does
is beneficial and profitable to him; but you also have another
obligation, and that's to your country, to safeguard the soil
and water resources so succeeding generations may have produc
tive lands, instead of sterile fields, gullied by soil erosion."
A few farmers seemed not interested in this long-range view
point but only interested in what is profitable now. I said to
my men, "You have to feel this two-fold responsibility down deep."
I think in this approach I had considerable influence throughout
the Service. But I also identify myself with the farmer — all over
the world.
Chall: And you tried to get your soil conservation experts who went
into the field to work with the farmers to feel this same need
to develop rapport with the farmer?
WCL: Absolutely. And to make the farmer realize that his is the
foundation occupation that makes possible our division of labor
in a modern society. It isn't until the farmer produces more
than he needs for himself and family that others ure released
to do something else besides grow food.
It was in Egypt where 1 first realized this. Long, long
ago, there was a genius of a farmer who hitched an ox to a hoe
and invented the plow and for the first time applied power in
agriculture. This enabled the farmer to produce more food than
he needed for himself, and thereby released others to do some
thing else. That's the foundation of our modern civilization.
Many economists may not accept this simplification, but
farmers will.
I say to farmers, "It is you people we depend on for food,
not only for today, but food for tomorrow and all future
generations."
213
Soil Conservation Districts Designed to Achieve Cooperation
WCL: I used to say many times that our program was three-fold: it
was to give play to individual initiative, within a framework
of social objectives, arrived at by the democratic process.
Chall: That's a very important philosophy. You felt that you were
achieving this in your creation of the Soil Conservation districts?
WCL: Oh yes. Our Soil Conservation districts kept on growing until
practically all the land in farms in the United States was in
Soil Conservation districts.
Chall: Had you any way of checking to know how well they were carrying
out their conservation districts?
WCL: Well, you see, we put the responsibility and the authority into
the hands of farmers, and we only worked for them as they called
on us. The majority of farmers asked for admission into Soil
Conservation districts, and had a part in locating the bounda
ries of where these districts would be, and of determining the
program. There were some farmers, it's true, who did not seem
to have pride in being a good farmer. This is where we give
play to individual initiative. A program can be no better than
the farmers are.
One thing about which I feel very badly is that being a
farmer is losing its attraction as we build up big commercial
farms in large acreages with powered implements, and family
farms are crowded out. So the hope for farm families in the
future is not good. But now we have these Soil Conservation
districts where it's the farmers' own show, and out of which
they get tremendous satisfaction. They also have a fine family
life and produce sturdy young people that won't be drop-outs —
at least, we hope not.
1 fear we are industrializing farms to such a point that
we're losing that type of influence and education for our youth,
which I think is important. When we apply to the University for
help in the yard, we always ask for a farmer boy, for they are
accustomed to do chores and are not afraid of manual labor.
Hiring the Social Psychologist
Chall: I understand you, or the Department of Agriculture, hired a
psychologist to try to understand the social pressures in the
South, to help you in your dealings with some recalcitrant farmers.
214
WCL: Th's was done by the Department of Agriculture, but the services
of this specialist were made available to the bureaus who asked
for It. ! think it was the Forest Service that primarily started
this, because the woods of the southern states presented a very
serious problem in fire control.
Every spring it was customary for the farmers to set the
woods on fire. I've flown over these areas and found the country
just covered with trees that had been killed by fires and then
rotted off or blown down. Of course, this occurred over a number
of years, but timber stands were thin and production low. We got
the southern states to pass laws that made it a criminal offense
to set woods on fire, but that did not stop the fires.
Farmers had the attitude that they must burn the woods each
spring so that grass would grow and they would have pasture.
Studies were made of pastures where fires had been kept out
which proved that there was more grass when there were no fires.
It was hidden behind the dry grass, but the cows could find it.
We sent a psychologist to the region to find what leader
ship it was that induced farmers to set the woods on fire every
spri ng.
Chall: Where was he from, one of the colleges?
WCL: Yes, I think he was from Pennsylvania University. This psycholo
gist went down south and studied the situation quite some time
and came back and reported. One of his findings was that in
these southern communities, there is usually a grandpappy, an
old man to whom the younger people looked for pronouncements.
So it was the psychologist's theory that the grandpappy gave
the word that the woods should be burned. This more or less
diagnosed the situation, but it did not stop the fires. We
called this the Cult of the Grandpappy.
The Soil Conservation Service was more effective in stop
ping the burning because we showed the farmer how he could get
an income from trees in his wood lot, as I already explained to
you. Then of course, as grandpappies began to die off, these
new ideas came in and more or less replaced him.
The Soil Conservation Service and the Extension Service
Chall: There was continual controversy between the Soil Conservation
215
Chal I : Service and the Extension Service regarding methods of working
with farmers. Can you explain reasons for this?
Background of the Controversy
WCL: The original plan for dealing with farmers had been worked out
by the Farm Bureau Federation that became the Extension Service.
The Farm Bureau was powerful and represented the movement for
county agents, who were agents of the Extension Service in each
county. These county agents were supported by the Farm Bureau
Federation so the Federation looked upon the county agent also
as their representative in dealing with farmers. This put them
in a strong position.
When we came in with our soil conservation program, in
which our technical assistance to the farmer was in the form of
engineering measures and works, the Extension Service looked
upon our technicians from the Soil Conservation Service as in
vading their domain and competing with their county agents, in
a service to the farmer.
Many of us in the Soil Conservation Service looked upon our
service as highly technical and therefore as something that was
beyond what the county agent was doing for the farmer, which
was primarily advisory. He gave farmers information, prices
and trends and types of fertilizers and strains of crops that
had been developed by the plant breeders to try out in different
places, but they did not give farmers technical assistance and
there was much opposition to us.
Examples of Difficulties
WCL: This opposition came to the fore in the Tennessee Valley Authority.
The T.V.A. agricultural specialist had lived with this idea of
the county agent being their representative to work with the far
mer. He favored that idea and was hostile to any program such as
the Soil Conservation Service would propose, whether in demonstra
tion projects or in the use of the farm planner in the fields.
This kind of situation developed in many parts of the country.
However, there were other instances where the county agent
and our farm planner got on very well. When the farm planner
asked the county agent to call for meetings with farmers and then
to represent the farmers, they found ways to cooperate. The fact
was, there was so much work to be done on farm lands anyway, it
216
WCL: helped when they could work together on some projects. Our
technical men, our engineers, could not just tell farmers to
put in contour terraces because these had to be staked out with
transits or engineering levels, to make sure that work was ac
curately done.
Chall: Could the county agents do that?
WCL: Most of these county agents were not trained engineers. They
were actually an informational, educational institution, but not
technical men. There was the situation where states took a stand
against the soil conservation work unit leaders or farm planners.
And one of those was California.
Chall: Do you know why they took this stand?
WCL: It was primarily due to Crocheron, who was a very able man and
who had developed one of the finest agriculture extension staffs
in the whole United States. He had what he called "specialists."
For instance, he had a specialist who was an engineer. They
used agricultural engineers more or less like we did. If there
was an engineering job, they sent an engineer out to do it.
They had specialists in different crops, who would go out and
consult with farmers in the field and work out programs with
farmers.
Chall: Were they also concerned in California with erosion at the time?
WCL: Oh yes, all were aware of erosion, but they didn't do much be
yond so-called standard practices for controlling soil erosion.
Now this controversy would settle down and everything would
go along nicely for a while and then it would flare up here and
there. Instead of finding a way to work together, some young
fellow would magnify the differences and take a stand on some
thing controversial and the problem would flare up again. Then
always in the background was O'Neal CEdwardU, a big-wig of the
Farm Bureau Federation, who was trying to engineer the situa
tion so as to bring the county agent and his Extension Service
to take the place of the Soil Conservation Service.
Chall: It was a power struggle.
WCL: Well, let us say there was a certain element of that in it.
There was also this other element of the type of service that
the farmer was entitled to. Here, I think, we differed in our
methods.
217
Lowdermi Ik's Three Lines of Defense Against Erosion
WCL: I worked out what I called "three lines of defense" against
soil erosion and soil depletion. The first line of defense
was soil management, which would consist In the cultivation of
soil, the fertilization of soil, the rotation of crops and such.
This soil management would seek to keep the soil in a state of
crumb structure, and go as far as one wanted in soil management.
This was the first line of defense.
This was a type of information that agronomists and other
people would want, and it would be sufficient in those regions
where rainfall was gentle, misty, and where the slope of land
was gentle or was nearly flat. If soil was managed to get the
most out of it, the land would take care of gentle rains and
require no other measures. But remember, this is something
that should be done for any soil.
Now the second line of defense is required when this soil
management of the first line of defense is not sufficient to
cause the soil to absorb all the rain that falls. Intensive
showers or prolonged rains were beyond the water-holding ca
pacity of this managed soil, and so you'd have unabsorbed rain
waters on the land and the water would flow. The steeper the
slope, the faster the water would run off and the more cutting
power it would have to cause excessive erosion.
This kind of situation required the measure of contour
plowing. Now this second line of defense included strip crop
ping, which, as you know, is done partially or on exact level
contours because this measure must absorb most of the runoff
of gentle rains.
Chall: The strip holds the water?
WCL: Yes. We alternate what we call close-growing vegetation, grains
or pasture or forage plants, as contrasted to cultivated crops
like corn and cotton.
Now the third line of defense is called in where rainfall
from time to time comes in very heavy downpours. These are
rains that may occur once in ten years in probability, so the
land must be prepared to take care of considerable amounts of
unabsorbed water. So we have a measure called broad base ter
racing. These terraces have to be very carefully, very accu
rately laid out, for, as I tell my boys, "Running water never
forgives a mistake. The good Lord may forgive us our sins, but
this running water in a field won't forgive a mistake or an
oversight."
218
WCL: And therefore, in this field work, dueling with water, we
must be accurate. A lot of the excellence, or lack of excellence,
in conservation work is just at this point and depends on whether
work is done accurately. Technicians must recognize that they
are doing professional work and that whenever they make a mis
take, or leave something undone because of an oversight, they
are contributing to damage to the land, and therefore are not
really entitled to professional rating.
Chall: I believe you called these men soil doctors?
WCL: Yes, they must be doctors for the land. I call them land doc
tors. They have more things to know than does a doctor, be
cause what the land doctor has to know involves many more
variables than the doctor dealing with a sick person.
In this third line of defense that includes terracing, the
earth is thrown up with graders to make a low ridge with a shal
low channel above so that the channel will capture unabsorbed
waters and take them around the slope. The slope of the ter
race depends on a number of things. We must consider the catch
ment area from which unabsorbed water will flow.
That's why we have to know about rainfall and its intensity
and what is the infiltration capacity of soils under various
treatment, so we can design measures for different rainstorms
and as much storm water as must be taken care of. This calls
for the broad base terrace or ridge.
In a sense, these are not terraces. In South Africa they
call them contour ridges. But if we accept these as terms then
we know what we're talking about. Our language has either to
apply new meanings to existing words, or to coin terms that
will say what we're talking about.
Now the shallow channel, which is part of the terrace,
leads the water around to a natural drainage way. This water
has to be disposed of; otherwise, it runs across the field out
of control. Water always takes the straightest down course
and begins to cut and tear the field to pieces. So we have
designed terrace outlets to dispose of this water, that take
this surface water to a natural drainage way so that the water
is carried away at low velocity, doing the minimum of damage
and carrying away the minimum of soil.
Controversy Between Engineers and Agronomists
WCL: Here is an area where there was a lot of controversy between
219
WCL: the engineers and the agronomists. The agronomists thought
that we could control this erosion problem primarily with
vegetative means. If one could grow close-growing crops that
cover the ground, and build up a litter or mulch over the soil,
this would take care of excess storm runoff that the soil had
been unable to absorb during rains. But it is a different situa
tion with cultivated crops, for the land is bare and storm waters
drop straight into the soil and churn it up.
When you ladies wash sand off vegetables, it is due to rain
splash. We have some fascinating studies on rain splash. It
breaks the soil crumbs apart, and splashes soil to and fro.
When raindrops strike these crumbs, they break into fine parti
cles and that causes water to be muddy.
I might say it another way: the particles in suspension
in this muddy water are filtered out from the soil surface just
like they are filtered out on filter paper in a chemical lab.
It's the same phenomenon. And those particles filtered out at
the surface of the soil tend to seal up the soil and reduce the
rate of intake. The infiltration rate is determined by whether
land is bared and cultivated, or protected by a cover of vege
tation.
Chall: Were you an engineer or an agronomist in this controversy?
WCL: Of course, I'm an engineer first in basic layout, but our treat
ment of the land must include integration of both engineering
and vegetative cover.
I analyzed the situation differently from Bennett, who was
on the agronomist side. I said the engineering layout must be
done first with accuracy and with instruments adequate for this
sort of thing, and it must be done before all else on the field.
Only after the basic contour layout is made, then all these
other measures can be considered and applied.
When one is called on to go out to a farm and do erosion
control work, the engineering basic contour layout must be done
first before the vegetative control measures are put in. Then
only are the agronomists called into the picture.
I think the agronomist people did not pay much attention
to my analysis, but I am sure that this method is more accurate
and more realistic in applying conservation measures and permits
more effective results in conserving soils.
220
Research in Soil Conservation Service
Chall: When you were in charge of research in the Soil Conservation
Service, did you test out the relative effectiveness of these
measures in soil and water conservation?
WCL: Yes, we had at least twenty or more experiment stations. I in
stalled what we called runoff and erosion studies on plots. I
put these also in forest lands as well as agricultural lands.
I worked out an agreement with our foresters so that we would
adapt this type of watershed study to farm areas. One of the
best finished projects of this kind was out at Cos.hocton, Ohio.
Experiment Station: Coshocton, Ohio
Chall: Were you responsible for the one at Coshocton?
WCL: Oh yes. I had Dr. Krimgold locate an area that would be repre
sentative of the northern Appalachian Mountain region. He was
a good hydro legist and did a very thorough job on this location
and layout. He outlined watersheds that could be identified
readily over what we call the Allegheny plateau that included
Ohio. We were interested in the Ohio River because it floods
frequently. And then there was also an army flood control pro
ject on the Muskingum River.
Chall: What experimental work did you carry out at Coshocton?
WCL: In this Coshocton area, we set up ways and means of measuring
runoff and erosion, the storage of water, and amounts of rain
fall, the amounts that percolated into the soil; ;md we col
lected the amount that went through the soil to recharge ground
water. And here is one of my pet ideas. We set up weighing
I ysi meters.
They were seven feet wide by fourteen feet long and eight
feet deep. We cut back Into the mountain a block of that size
and put it on a concrete platform which had two leading tubes
to divert the drainage water that ran through it, so as to meas
ure it. Here is a report done by one of my men, Mr. Lloyd
Harrold, director of Coshocton watershed project.
Chall: What's this report called?
WCL: "Evaluation of Agricultural Hydrology, by Monolith Lysimeters,
1956-62."
221
Chall: I guess you had already retired at this time?
WCL: Yes, I know, but I started it.
Chal I : I see. So this was to run a long time?
WCL: Yes, these were to run fifty years or more. I used the figure
of fifty years because we wanted to cover as long a time as
possible and measure a variety of natural conditions. Of course
a hundred years would be better. In many cases where installa
tions like this are mechanically well done so they don't break
down, there's no reason why tests shouldn't run a hundred years,
to test rain that comes in various combinations.
And we have developed what we call the design storm, which
repeats very distinctive or important storms that have occurred
in the past. Then we have the records of each, when it started,
how long it lasted, and the amount of rain, and the different
pulsations of showers, the varying intensities and so on.
We wanted to be dealing with the realistic phenomena that
actually take place on the land, so we developed 1his design
storm on the basis of what has already happened. In this way
we can be more certain of extremes in the amounts of water which
we must handle.
We realize that we are farming this land on the assumption
that rainfall will be within certain limits, but we want also to
include and understand these unusual storms that cause damaging
and destructive floods.
For instance, in '64 we had a big flood in the redwoods.
When analyzed, the amount of rain that fell wasn't so unusual,
although flood stages rose high in places.
But there's no good reason why the damage should have been
what it was, except for the fact that homo sapiens come in and
want to occupy the flood plain because it's flatter and there
fore easier to build highways and construct buildings. People
do not stop to realize that this is a flood plain that is built
up of sediments from former floods.
Sooner or later the flood plain will be flooded again,
causing destruction of life and property. A river demands its
right to its own flood plain.
Well, these good people occupied the flood plain and built
houses, barns, and at the sawmill, piled their lumber, because
as far as they knew, it hadn't flooded before.
Then this unusual storm comes along. Much of the flood
222
WCL: stage height was due not to excessive amounts of rain, but to
the bulking of flood waters with all sorts of debris: trees,
brush, and logs. This debris was lifted and floaled all around
in the flood waters. And then at the railway and highway bridges,
this debris piled up. These bridges were designed to hold up
weights and were not designed against side thrusts. So bridges
were pushed over and transportation and communlcal ion were Inter
rupted. People had to rely 'on little Piper Cubs and some heli
copters .
Chall: So you were trying to find ways to prevent this kind of thing
from happening. At least one of your experiments in the Ohio
area was designed to prevent damage from floods?
WCL: We wanted to get a measure of the phenomena that we had good
reason to expect would happen from time to time. I f we know
what we are to expect, then we are in a better position to pre
pare for it.
Guthrie, Oklahoma
Chall: What were some of your other studies designed to show?
WCL: In Guthrie, Oklahoma, we tested the differences in runoff and
erosion under varying kinds of farming conditions. We laid the
land of the experiment station out in plots of one-hundredths
of an acre each, which is about ten feet by one hundred feet.
Around each installation were rain gauges to measure the amount
and intensities of rain. These plots were treated in different
ways: one plot was left in fallow, one was kept in continuous
cultivation of cotton, while another was kept in grass for pas
ture.
On some plots we practiced crop rotation — wheat, sweet
clover and cotton. We kept the virgin, uncut woods intact and
kept open woods with Bermuda grass on the sod which was the con
dition of large areas of the region, so as to study rainfall and
runoff. We had some plots of fine sandy loam and other plots on
seven and a half percent slope that was too steep for cultivation
except with certain measures for water and erosion control.
The average rainfall was about thirty-three inches a year.
At the bottom of our plots there were pits to catch the runoff
and eroded material. We let these settle and then drained off
the water which was then practically clear. Then the mud was
sampled to determine the relative amount of soil that had been
washed off the land.
223
WCL: For instance, results of one period showed that when land
was fallow — that is, cultivated and bare — 27.5% of rain that fell
on that plot ran off immediately. This means thai twenty-seven
percent was ineffective rain. The amount of water for crops on
this soil is reduced by over a quarter.
From this rather small area of fallow land, this rain that
ran off carried with it what would amount to 20.3 tons per year
of soil. This makes the long-range meaning of these experiments
realistic: our computations showed that at this rate of soil
erosion, the seven inches of topsoil would be eroded away in
sixty years.
Then where cotton was planted continuously, the experiments
showed a loss of 14.3$ of rainfall, with the runoff carrying away
24.3 tons of soil. At this rate the topsoil would be eroded
within fifty years. In the life of a nation, this is a very
short time.
When wheat, sweet clover and cotton were planted in rota
tion, the rain loss was 11.6$, and only 5.5 tons of soil are
eroded away. To erode seven inches of topsoil with this rota
tion would take 222 years.
Chall: That loss does not seem so disastrous.
WCL: Yes, but soil conservationists don't accept 222 years. Consider
our results in grass pastures, where the amount of runoff was
1.2/6, and the amount of soil loss only .032 of a ton. At this
rate, it would take 38,900 years to erode seven Inches of soil.
In the primeval forests with undisturbed litter, the runoff was
practically nil. It would require 87,100 years to erode seven
inches of topsoi I .
Chall: These are interesting comparisons.
WCL: Yes, and in open woods with Bermuda sod — a type of grass we hate
to find in our city lawns, but which is a mainstay in Oklahoma
for sodded waterways — the runoff Is barely .00001. It would take
643,000 years to remove the topsoil.
We must ask the question: what is a permanent agriculture?
How long can we use the land to grow food crops for our country?
We know by accurate measurements that under certain planting
conditions we are actually eroding soil faster than it is being
formed. Our soil conservation people should impress this upon
our farmers. Our national resources are not to be used up by a
few generations, but must be maintained as a rightful inheritance
by all succeeding generations.
224
Aerial Surveys and Land Classification
Chal
WCL:
Chall
WCL:
Chall
WCL:
I wanted to ask you about your initiation of air surveys. This,
I understand, you first undertook during the days of the Soil
Erosion Service. Did you classify the lands into one, two, three,
four, etc., as did the A. A. A.?
Our classification was more exact and detailed than that. We had
our aerial photographs enlarged to twelve inches to the mile.
With this enlargement of well-done photography, we could locate
ourselves within ten feet on the ground. This saved us no end
of expense and time, because we had to work fast as the number
of demonstration projects increased.
Maps were needed in
accurate map of his farm
could locate himself and say, "I'm
the gulley area." He could locate
a hurry,
and show
t,
We could give the fanner an
where his corner was, so he
on this field," or "This. is
hi s enti re farm.
We developed what we called the land-use capability survey.
We had some battles over this before Kellogg was brought over
into our Service, for he had a soil survey independent of us.
Did he join you finally?
Yes. This was something I wanted done
Kellogg was an able man. Long after I
some kind of an international job.
from the
left, he
first,
ret i red
Charles
and took
Did you use this land-use capability survey in the Soil Conserva
tion districts to help the farmers?
This was a basic part of our service to farmers and all users of
land; our technicians and farm planners had to have these accu
rate maps. We classified land, for example, on the basis of
slope: we had A, B, C, D slopes. A-slope would be relatively
flat, and B-slope a little steeper; then C-slopes and D-slopes
were designated according to steepness of slope for orchards or
pastures.
Then on the new surveys, we made recommendations — for in
stance, that a meadow be formed, or that a fish pond be placed
in another location. We suggested best uses for each type of
land on the farm.
225
Administration of Research
Chall: After your appointment as Chief of Research, were you able to
plan what you felt was necessary and get it done? Who did you
have to consult before you could get funds and general approval
for research projects like the ones in Ohio and Oklahoma and
those in North Carolina and Texas you wrote about?
Fi nancing
WCL: The Soil Conservation work started at the time when President
Roosevelt and Congress were trying to give employment to large
numbers of unemployed. We were then in the Department of Interior
as an emergency basis. Our money was not appropriated by Congress,
but was allotted by the President out of the emergency funds as a
relief measure. We made requests to Ickes, and then he requested
Roosevelt to supply our needs from the emergency funds that Con
gress appropriated and made available for relief of unemployment.
Chall: At first, then, you had to convince only Ickes himself.
WCL: Yes. These emergency funds were made use of to finance many
types of works. Some were large-scale public works that had
been long in planning and had to meet exacting requirements.
These often had not reached the stage of construction. In such
cases, other relief projects were brought forward for considera
tion that could be initiated with less preparation and men were
put to work with less red tape.
Our Soil Conservation projects could be got underway in
short order because of preparatory work done by the ten (1930)
Soil Erosion stations; for directors of these stations had been
instructed to survey conditions of surrounding country as prob
lem areas and to propose setting up large demonstration projects.
Chall: When you went into the Department of Agriculture on a more per
manent basis, how did you get money and approval for projects?
WCL: When the Soil Conservation Act was passed by the Congress with
out an adverse vote in the House or in the Senate, our old Soil
Erosion Service, as an emergency organization in the Department
of the Interior, was transferred to the Department of Agricul
ture and was set up as a permanent bureau of the Department.
Our work was then reported to the Department of Agriculture
and included in the President's budget. We had to appear before
226
WCL: the Appropriations Committees of the House and of the Senate, to
give an accounting of emergency funds that we had spent, and also
to report our plans for the coming fiscal year and to set forth
the funds that we had estimated as necessary to do the projected
works. This budget included the branch of Research.
Organizing
Chall: As Chief of Research, how did you administer the program?
WCL: When the Erosion Service was transferred as a permanent bureau
into the Department of Agriculture, we already had going a con
siderable program of research.
This research program came out of what had been done before
in the ten Soil Erosion stations that had been established from
the first appropriations by Congress. Then there were my hydro-
logic studies at San Dimas, the Tan Bark Flat experimental area,
North Fork, and the installations in Strawberry Canyon. Also at
Cal Tech in Pasadena, we were collaborating with Dr. Robert Knapp
and Dr. Vito Vannoni, in hydraulic studies, especially in the
erosional phenomena of sediments into reservoirs. During our
time in the Department of Interior, we had strengthened our re
search and were collaborating with a number of agencies.
Now we had to formulate our larger program. We incorporated
our research done under the emergency program into research on a
long-range basis. We planned to call in outstanding scientists
with national and international standing to make use of the best
that science had to offer.
Bennett looked upon research as a small activity under his
friends with whom he had long been associated. But I realized
we now had the opportunity to plan and develop a comprehensive
and far-reaching program of research and develop an able and com
petent staff to carry it out.
It was not until I could act with authority as the Chairman
of the Basic Data Committee on President Truman's Water Policy
Commission that we were able to formulate a comprehensive pro
gram and policy in establishing facts that were necessary for
such an achievement.
We did both original basic research, and also our researchers
were responding to a need for information in the field to meet tho
needs of our farmers.
Of course, I wanted to be sure that all basic research
227
WCL: should be given an opportunity. For instance, if a researcher
had a line of work that might bring new discoveries, I gave him
opportunity to follow it until he established some new fact or
new principles. But if this research involved too much, we would
then turn it over to some organization that was doing basic re
search, for our primary objective was applied research.
When farmers have problems they can't analyze, we had our
operations man and our research specialist to sit down and draft
a program. And then I, as Director of Research, had the power
to approve the program. I did not delay our programs.
Techniques of Administration
WCL: I frequently went out to see my field men. I'd call a general
session and have them report to me on what they were doing. I
would say, "Now what is the line of work we need to have done?
What certain factors are unknowns in this situation that we want
to evaluate?" We might discuss how we could get results or find
solutions in this or that direction. But always I would suggest
that when you study the problem, you may find a better way. If
they could find a better way, they were given credit for it.
Project directors around the country always said they were
glad to have me come because I stimulated the staff by this type
of administrative management. We had marvelous teams of young
fellows, and what's more, young fellows with ability wanted to
get into this kind of work, where their originality would be
appreciated.
Chall: Do you have any ideas or theories about why you were able to
work in this way? Some administrators in your position might
have gone out and told people what to do, without allowing them
to provide some of their own ideas.
WCL: Then you get a lot of dullards.
Chall: Perhaps. But why did you have this particular technique?
WCL: Well, because I too was always interested in the problems they
were working on. One needs to have the thrill of being on the
frontier of knowledge. Then one can make use of the individual
initiative of these eager and talented young men, and you may
have some exciting, unexpected results.
228
Omnibus Flood Control Act of 1936
Chal I : You have written so completely of the many activities leading
up to the writing and passage of the 1936 Omnibus Flood Control
Act, that we needn't tape that story. But I would like to know
more about how the many new concepts of the Act were brought in
to being on the streams and rivers.
WCL: The Forest Service was brought in because they had responsibility
on headwaters; and the Soil Conservation Service and the army
engineers were brought in, and they worked out in committees or
commissions for each river basin what each agency would be res
ponsible for. In that way, they were supposed to insure there
would be no untreated areas.
And then, of course, our attention was drawn off to war mat
ters. The government bureaus and the Bureau of the Budget didn't
encourage us to dp_ anything on this. It wasn't until the end of
the war that we really turned our attention again to the authority
that had been lying idle, so to speak, for a time. So there was
a delay in carrying out the provisions of the Act.
Arthur C. Ringland Analyzes the Administration of the Act
Chal I : We have done an oral history of Arthur C. Ringland. He has talked
about the time when he served as Chairman of the Flood Control
Coordinating Committee (1937-1940). I'd like to tell you some
of what he said about the early administration of the 1936 Act,
and ask you to comment on his ideas.
He thought that the Act was "one of the most far-reaching
legislative enactments in conservation history," but he deplored
the fact that the Department of Agriculture, having command of
the resources, had not command of their use. He felt that the
character of the organization set up to administer the provisions
of the Act made it impossible to bring about action.
The Commission, he claimed, brought together a number of
experts from various bureaus who were to formulate policies and
establish procedures for collaboration, but there was no provi
sion for decisions. As Chairman, he said, he could not act in
an executive capacity.
In his report to Milton Eisenhower, in 1940, he recommended
that some way be found to fix responsibility and delegate au
thority to carry out policy.
229
WCL: Senator Hayden and I worked hard to make this Act the most far-
reaching in conservation history. But Ringland was right; they
should have given him the executive authority to carry out pro
jects. I think that coordinating committees should be advisory,
to serve as consultants only, leaving a director as an executive
officer who can use his board as consultants in making decisions
and pronouncements, but be free to make executive decisions.
This is a sound principle in the modern democratic process. Res
ponsibility must be assigned.
Conf I ict With the Corps ojf_ Engi neers
Chall: I understand that early in the history of soil conservation
activity, Mr. Bennett, Mr. Wilson, and Secretary Wallace didn't
want to have anything to do with watershed development as such.
They felt the Corps of Engineers might just as well do It. Could
you give me some of your ideas about what was behind the continu
ing controversy between the Soil Conservation Service and the
Corps of Engineers on these problems of floods?
WCL: The Corps of Engineers had been set up in the early days of our
country as responsible for flood control. In those days, they
were concerned about the protection of developments in alluvial
valleys of rivers with large streams. The usual practice was
to build dikes or levees, like on the Mississippi, where works
started out with flood control first, to protect New Orleans.
Then the engineers began to do upstream works. The Corps of
Engineers were most influential because they had j stand-in
with Congress.
Chall: Almost as powerful, or more so, than the Soil Conservation
Service? Daughter]
WCL: At first they were more powerful. They were very skillful; but
later on, the Soil Conservation Service, backed by farmers or
ganized into Soil Conservation districts, came along. That's
where our power came from.
The Corps of Engineers assumed they were the primary agency
responsible for flood control, and they didn't want to give up
that position. And their principle methods of flood control in
early days were to build levees or dikes.
But upstream, river valleys were narrower and it was not
possible to contain so much water in these small river valleys.
230
WCL: The flood stages would rise faster. So they Included with the
levees or dikes flood storage reservoirs.
Now the Miami, Ohio Flood Control Project in itself was a
detention type of flood control where the dams were made but
were never closed. The opening of the dam was restricted to a
certain size that would permit only a given amount of water to
flow through. If storm water came down beyond that amount, the
opening would be too small and water would back up as temporary
storage until rains stopped. Then the water that was backed up
would eventually flow away through drainages into the main river,
So you have automatic control .
Chall: This Miami project has proven effective, has it not?
WCL: Yes, it has been very effective, but it was a sinqle-purpose
project in flood control.
Multi-purpose Projects
WCL: We wanted multi-purpose structures and urged this on the Army
Engineer Corps. One of the first big multi-purpose projects
was on the Muskingum River Conservancy District, in Ohio.
Chall: I see. That's been a forerunner, a leader ....
WCL: Yes. There were, I think, twelve dams built, and twelve flood
control reservoirs. The principle object was to detain the
water. This was something that the engineers hadn't planned.
They soon found that with twelve reservoirs feeding into the
mainstream, the water had to be guided through, because if all
reservoirs emptied at the same time, a flood stage would develop
on the main channel of the river. So this emptying of the re
servoirs had to be scheduled so they wouldn't conflict with each
other. First one would empty and others would follow, so that
flood stage height would not be excessive.
A man by the name of Bryce Browning with whom I got on
beautifully was a conservationist from Ohio. He had been a
prime mover in getting this flood control project for the Corps
of Engineers on the Muskingum River.
Chall: Was he a private individual or a government employee?
WCL: He was a member of the Chamber of Commerce of a small town in
Ohio, but most important, he was president of the conservation
district on which all this was done. He and I were working on
the idea to get communal or vi 1 1 age .forests established in this
231
WCL: area, such as I was acquainted with in France and Germany es
pecial !y.
Chall: Who would be responsible, or own, the communal forest?
WCL: This was a time when people were out of work, and we wanted
these to be set up for towns and villages.
Chall: This was in the late MO's after the war?
WCL: Yes, this was after the war when there was still this problem
of unemployment. This would put people to work and create re
sources.
Then Bryce Browning said, "Now, we don't want all these
reservoirs to be entirely emptied. We want a conservation pool
Cthat was their term], which would back up some water against a
low dam and never be emptied." This small amount of water would
scarcely effect flood control, but there would always be some
water in the reservoir for recreation purposes. He got the Corps
of Engineers to set up conservation pools in about ten of the
fourteen reservoirs.
Chall: Were the pools just for recreation?
WCL: Yes, for recreation — fishing, boating and picnicking. Many big
manufacturing people in Ohio bought up land beside these pools
and formed recreational places for their employees. Bryce Brown
ing was responsible for getting them to do this. He managed
these pools successfully and derived considerable revenue from
recreation facilities.
This is one of the outstanding successes in the country.
These recreation pools provided all expenses for the Conserva
tion District, except for flood control dams and big construction
work that the army carried out. Bryce Browning was the genius
behind this. Now this principle of multiple-use is so well es
tablished that even the Corps of Engineers accept it.
Communal Forests
Chall: Your idea about communal forests sounds intriguing. Could you
explain what you envisioned here?
WCL: It was in the Muskingam drainage that former rich lands had been
damaged by erosion of top soils. Much of this land had been
abandoned for cultivating crops. A thin brushy cover was growing
up, producing little of value to land owners of the district. It
23!a
WCL: was then that I proposed to Bryce Browning that his Conservation
District should buy up these badly eroded areas and should es
tablish community forests to be protected and managed for grow
ing timber that would also furnish revenue for the Conservation
District, besides recreational uses. Here multiple uses of such
areas would create many sources of use, revenue and jobs.
Memorable Re I ationshi ps
Chall: I'd like to talk with you about some of the major figures you
232
Chall: knew while you lived and worked in Washington. First, what did
you think of Henry Wallace?
Henry Wa! lace
WCL: I considered Wallace an excellent scientist. He was knowledge
able and had a wide grasp of subjects on which he was working,
especially on hybrid corn and poultry. He was also working on
certain flowers and had me locate for him in South Central Africa,
the native wild gladiola on which he wanted to develop hybrid
species. I located some — the bulb was very deep in the ground;
I remember we dug and dug — and shipped them to him.
He was very successful and famous for his developments of
many kinds of hybrids. Henry Wallace was an industrious man and
a very good farmer. I always had very pleasant relations with
him which continued up until the time of his death.
In dealing with personnel — one of my friends, Knowles Ryer-
son, felt Wallace was unfair to him. At that time, Wallace
seemed to be influenced by the philosophy of a mystic in Man
churia.
Chall: Was he mystical about his feeling toward the land?
WCL: I'm not so sure about that. We were interested in the intro
duction of various kinds of plants and legumes to help control
erosion. We especially wanted crested wheat grass, which is
related to our wheat plant, and produces a very heavy crop of
seed, and is very hardy. It grows beautifully in our north
western United States.
Our grass nurseries wanted to grow seed in quantity. Many
farmers in the early days planted crested wheat grass on badly
eroded land and got enough income from the crop of seeds to en
able them to fertilize their land and improve it.
Chall: What did you do with the crested wheat grass? Was it used as
wheat, as a food?
WCL: It was feed for livestock. Birds especially liked the seed. It
was a very hardy plant that could grow on poor soils and did not
require much moisture. Our soil conservation work gave much at
tention to building up pastures with crested wheat and legumes,
for pasturing livestock. At the same time, this cover reduced,
or stopped, soil erosion.
Wallace and our Service developed a program in Central Asia
233
WCL: to gather seeds of crested wheat and legumes from that region,
and introduce them in our plant introduction gardens.
Chall: I see. And when was this being done?
WCL: Well, the new plant industries had been doing thai for many
years. David Fairchild, the great plant explorer who wrote
The World is my Garden, introduced many forage plants — alfalfa,
and also rhododendrons from the Himalayas. But no one had done
it for the purpose of securing plants and seeds to control ero
sion. It was through my interest in plants to control erosion
that I got acquainted with Tugwell.
Knowles Ryerson had got his crew and his field staff pre
pared and ready to make this trip into Russia, in Asia, for crested
wheat seeds. Wallace interfered and wanted to turn this project
over to this mystic friend who was in Manchuria. So Knowles
Ryerson finally lost his job. He couldn't go along, trying to
mix scientific enterprise with men who had little or no scientific
knowledge, as this so-called mystic.
I heard much of Ryerson's problems in this unhappy affair.
But this is the only case that I know about Wallace having dif
ficulty with personnel. He was always very good 1o me, and was
interested in the broad field of conservation of resources in
which his ideas were very sound. He seemed I i ke a deeply reli
gious man.
Chall: Did you become involved in politics of the Department when there
was hope that Mr. Wallace would be nominated by the Democratic
party to be President of the United States?
WCL: No, I wasn't mixing up with politics.
Chall: You were out of the Department when Mr. Wallace was nominated for
President by the Progressive party. Did you remain a friend of
Mr. Wallace during this period?
WCL: Yes, though we had few contacts with him. I went to hear one of
his speeches. Newspapers made him out as a dangerous character.
He gave a talk from a barge on the Potomac near the Memorial
Bridge where concerts are held. The speech he made was a very
good one. There were none of these wild statements he was ac
cused of. I felt he had been very unfairly treated by the press.
Chall: So you felt that Wallace was sincere in that period, concerned
about his country and international relations?
WCL: Yes. But once a man gets into the hands of the news media, they
can break him if they are against him.
234
Harold I ekes
Chall: Let's talk about Mr. I ekes. You were in Mr. I ekes1 Department
for a whi le?
WCL: Oh yes. He was a very important man in Washington at the period
during the Depression. He was responsible for the Public Works
Agency. He was a good administrator. But he was also ambitious
pol itical ly.
Chall: Now he had a plan to bring all activities of conservation — which
included the Erosion and Forest Services, and others — into the
Department of Interior, and to call it the Department of Conser
vation. How did you feel about this?
Reaction to Department of Conservation
WCL: We did not favor this.
At that time, I worked a great deal with J. C. Merriam,
President of the Carnegie Institute in Washington. He was very
interested in our development and our scientific work in land-use
studies and in measuring erosion. He said to me that mine was a
rare circumstance — for a man to make a scientific study as I had
done, and then live long enough to see the results of his experi
mentations carried out in practice.
I got interested in erosion in China and began measuring it.
My doctorate on that is one of the contributions 1o science in
this field. Then the Roosevelt era in conservation of our lands
and waters had enabled me to have money to go ahead in a big way
and do something about it. So I had in one life-span these two
phases of scientific work that usually are separated by different
personnel and by different time intervals. We had very many dis
cussions together.
J. C. Merriam was the highest paid scientific, administrator
in the United States. He raised with me the question about a
Department of Conservation. I said to Merriam, "Why don't you
call it a Department of Good Intentions?1 [laughter]
This apparently impressed him and in a later discussion he
made use of that expression. But he dropped the idea of a special
Department of Conservation.
At first, the Department of Interior had little else to do
except the control of the Public Domain, and there it began to
235
WCL: measure waters as the Geologic Survey. The proposal for the
transfer of the Forest Service into the Department of Interior
was not a new thing but rather, a periodic thing. Some favored
the transfer, but always resistance arose each time this was men
tioned.
^At first the Geologic Survey was a small organization, but
as time went on, they became much more important. Through them,
the Department of Interior began to do some very fundamental things
in measurement, especially of our water resources. Out of this
came the Bureau of Reclamation, which relied so much on scientific
data for water measurements, the amount of the flow of streams,
and the possibilities for storage of intermittent flows of water
in reservoirs for irrigation, power, navigation and recreation.
So agencies concerned with forests and water were already
in the Department of the Interior. And forests and floods had
been associated for quite a number of years, even before the ag
ricultural people. The foresters had been ahead of the agrono
mists for a long time on this question of the conservation of
natural resources especially. They were the first to recognize
the menace of erosion before even our soils men.
Chall: Why were you so strongly opposed to the Soil Erosion Service
remaining in the Department of the Interior?
WCL: We were in the Department of the Interior at the time, and people
in the Department of Agriculture said, "They're setting up a new
department of agriculture over in Interior!!"
Chall: Yes, but from your written material (pages 148-149), I have the
feeling that you thought your long-range approach might not be
acceptable to Ickes. Was it this, or the fact of duplication
with the Department of Agriculture?
WCL: I felt we would have more effective coordination of our works in
agriculture if our soil conservation were carried out in the De
partment of Agriculture.
When we were transferred to Agriculture, do you think our
colleagues received us with open arms? What a rude shock we got!
They thought our soil conservation group was getting too strong.
True, we were developing rapidly and spreading out our projects
through tho nation. They had a g-ouch against us.
M. L. Wi Ison
Chall: Can you tell me about M. L. Wilson? The two of you must have
236
Chall: known each other during these working days in Washington.
WCL: Yes, we knew each other intimately. M. L. Wilson was director
of the Agricultural Extension Service. Many of his men in the
field were hostile to our men and works of the Soil Conservation
Service; so officially, we were cool but off the record we were
friendly. We were frequently invited to their home and they, to
ours. Bennett and Wilson were less friendly and cool to each
other. Wilson was quite intellectual. Some thought that at
times he was impractical, but that was not my opinion.
Isaiah Bowman
Chall: I want you to tell me something about Isaiah Bowman because
you've mentioned him from time to time in your material.
WCL: Isaiah Bowman was a very alert and fine-looking man, vigorous,
with a good sense of humor, but at the same time he had a great
mind. He was one of our foremost geographers of the world, who
did much to develop the field, or science, of geographic know
ledge.
He was director of the Society of Geographers, the technical
branch of geography, not the National Geographic. He was a seri
ous student of geography, like Carl Sauer. He had a great in
fluence in the development of thinking on the relationship of man
to the earth, and the Interacting factors involved. Also, he was
president of the National Research Council for a number of years.
I frequently met him for lunch at the Cosmos Club and had
many conferences on our program of research when he was president
of the National Research Council. We were then developing a re
search program for the Soil Conservation Service. Dr. Bowman
was an inspiration. I always found him tremendously helpful.
He had a very nice office in the National Academy of Science
building on Constitution Avenue. Whenever I wanted to discuss a
problem with him, he would arrange a time for us to leisurely
discuss various aspects of the use of land by mankind and long-
range thinking on many matters. I consider Isaiah Bowman had a
big part in helping us formulate scientific objectives. He was
a very valuable counsellor. It was a great experience to be as
sociated with a man like this.
Isaiah Bowman told me a story that I've used many times. He
said that the situation sometimes is very much like a man who was
on his way to Cincinnati and not lost in the hills of eastern
Ohio. He came upon a hill farmer and asked about the road to
237
WCL: Cincinnati. The hill farmer said, "Well, stranger, you take this
road and follow it for a few miles and then you come to a fork in
the road. You take the left-hand fork and follow that for a few
miles and you come to another fork in the road and then you take
the right-hand fork until you come to another fork In the road
and you take the. . . . Look here, stranger, if I was you and if
I was going to Cincinnati I would not start from here." [.laughter]
I used this story in my talks to farmers on conservation. We
can't go back and start over again. We have to go on from here,
take the condition of the land as it is and make the most of what
I ies ahead.
The Library of Congress: Dr. Herbert Putnam
WCL: Dr. Herbert Putnam, librarian of the Library of Congress, is
another important association of my Washington days. He had a
private dining room and kitchen in the Library of Congress. Each
Friday noon he invited guests — scholars from the United States
and foreign countries — to gather around a large round table,
where double-thick lamb chops were beautifully prepared and
served. Conversations were generally very stimulating.
Dr. Putnam liked to tell about the collaboration of the
Library with the Soil Conservation Service. He was very inter-'
ested in my experiences in China. He had gathered together hun
dreds of thousands of books on China, so that this is the largest
library of Chinese books in the world, I understand. Our mutual
interest in China and collecting Chinese books made us fast friends.
He gave me a permanent invitation to any and all P'riday luncheons
I could attend.
Use of Gazetteers
WCL: Putnam turned over to me a study room in the Library of Congress.
I had an American man by the name of Dean Wickes, who had been a
missionary. He could read Chinese fluently and did research for
me here on China. He and I wrote a history of the development
of the irrigation project of King Ho, which was published in The
Scientific Monthly [September, 1942],
Our own agricultural people, Swingell and a number of others,
Fairchild, brought over citrus plants from China. They consulted
these Chinese works. Then some of our missionary people to China
were scholars in Chinese and knew the classics. There was much
238
WCL: interest, and still is, in this enormous collection of books on
China. For instance, I bought a two hundred volume set of Gazet
teers of county records for the Library of Congress from Sianfu.
Chall: How did you get them over to the Library of Congress?
WCL: I mailed them direct before all our things were lost at the time
of the Nanking Incident. These Gazetteers were paperback and
could be ma i led in parcels.
Chall: Did you collect them from different counties?
WCL: My policy wherever I went on these expeditions was to buy up
local Gazetteers. I sometimes got duplicates for our library at
Nanking. They mailed the two hundred Gazetteers for me to the
Library of Congress.
Chall: That was farsighted of you.
WCL: Harry Clemens was the librarian at the University of Nanking. He
too was very keen on building up these old Chinese records.
Chall: So when you got to Washington you were able to begin work on some
of your Gazetteers.
WCL: Yes, with Dean Wickes.
China, as Background for Conservation
WCL: When we were developing our soil conservation work, you remember
that Franklin Roosevelt showed a picture which Theodore Roosevelt
had used to stimulate the creation of national forests out of the
Public Domain. This picture showed a Chinese painting of an an
cient town (the date was shown on the painting). Years later,
Bailey Willis, the great geologist, at Leland Stanford University—
another good friend of mine — made a survey of the province of
Shansi. He saw the same area as was in the painting. It was
eroded, forests were gone, and the hills were cut with big gullies.
With productivity gone, the people had largely died off from mal
nutrition or migrated.
Bailey Willis took a picture of this. Stones were washed
down and piled up on the alluvial farmland. Its productivity as
a place for mankind was practically destroyed. Franklin Roosevelt
used this picture to influence and to educate conqressmen for our
work on soil conservation.
239
Chall: He used "before" and "after" pictures?
WCL : Yes, that's right. A part of our impetus to control erosion is
founded, much as my own is founded, in China and what had hap
pened to its lands there. We have F. H. King's book, Farmers
of Forty Centuries, one of the earlier books on China in which
he was deal i ng with the alluvial flat lands, not with the slopes,
so that the problem of erosion hardly entered into it except bank
cutting. In other words, our interest to control soil erosion
in America has been influenced to a great extent t>y what some
students including myself found In China, and the misuse of land
there.
Chall: So the salary of Mr. Wickes working on the Gazetteers was paid
by the Soi I Conservation Service?
WCL: Yes. Putnam encouraged me, and he was delighted to have the
library used and this Chinese Oriental collection made use of.
Dean Wickes and 1 did much writing from these research studies
in the library and several of them were published. We got into
the war and that upset about everything. But Wickes worked with
me several years before he died.
Mi Iton Eisenhower
ChaM: You mentioned Milton Eisenhower many times. I thought we could
get a little sketch of him because he must have been a good
friend of yours, certainly a colleague.
WCL: We were very friendly for a while, then somehow we lost touch.
They came to dinner at our home and had us to dinner with them.
He turned against Bennett, and that seemed to make him rather
hostile to me. He was not a trained scientist in agriculture,
but had come up through the ranks of information. He had a
very clever way of informing himself on subjects he knew little
about. He would find two men who were of different opinions
and manage to get them together in his office in a conference.
He would start with some provocative statement or question.
Then these two men with divergent views would argue and reveal
a lot of information that many times was more up-to-date or new,
and gave Eisenhower new ideas, new developments. He used this
clever device to keep himself up-to-date. I soon saw through
this trick. He wasn't interested in what I was saying except
as it gave him a better understanding of what was going on in
the department.
Milton Eisenhower was never undersecretary. He was
240
WCL: involved in information and became the chief of information in
the Department of Agriculture, and later was made coordinator
of land-use policies. He saw the Department was deficient. or
lacking in a positive land program. He got himself appointed
as land-use coordinator in the Department of Agriculture be
cause he was very interested and there was really no one to con
test him. Wallace was willing for him to go ahead. Even Bennett
didn't contest him very much. I think I contested him more than
anybody else.
Chall: Was he a capable, intelligent person?
WCL: Yes indeed, very intelligent. His principal fault as far as I
was concerned was that he was playing out on the margin with In
sufficient knowledge of standing questions. He was able to do a
lot of things simply because we lacked leaders who were well
trained or would contest his points of view.
It's a thankless job to get out onto the battle lines, so
to speak, where controversies are developing, people have dif
ferences of opinion and challenge each other. Which is all to
the good, in a sense, but it isn't always a happy situation. One
has to have a personality that will stand up to it and Milton
Eisenhower had it.
As his brother, Dwight Eisenhower, came on the political
scene, Milton became more political-minded. But the country
didn't take to him as to his brother. He did not play a big
part pol itical ly .
At first he was the president of the Manhattan University
of Agriculture. He went to Kansas as president of the Univer
sity, then to Pennsylvania, and later to Johns Hopkins Univer
sity. How he got to be president there I never understood. He's
nothing like the stature of Isaiah Bowman.
Chall: Maybe there aren't too many of that stature.
WCL: No. Isaiah Bowman was a truly great man.
Chall: Perhaps by the time Milton Eisenhower was there, he had become
a very good adnr i nistrator.
WCL: Yes, he always was a very good one.
Louis Bromfield
Chall: What about Louis Bromfield? He, along with Morris Cooke and
241
Chall: Russell Lord and others, were devoled to the concept of proper
use of land. Did you know him?
WCL: I knew Bromfield very well. He was a novelist who wrote some
best-sellers on conservation of land in the early days. His
interests were primarily rural, and he sponsored the cause of
farmers during the depression. He wrote articles and books.
Pleasant Val ley and The Farm were best sel lers. I even found
them on bookshelves in Africa.
Bromfield was one of the organizers of Friends of the Land
Magazi ne, to which most of us were subscribers. This monthly
magazine was edited by Russell Lord and illustraled beautifully
and graphically by Kate Lord. During this period of recovery
from the depression, it emphasized rural values. Writers from
England and America contributed to this progressive magazine.
Louis and Kate Lord made his magazine a great success. During
my year of travels in Africa, sponsored by Carnegie Corporation
and the British Colonial governments, I wrote a regular column
monthly, entitled "Foreign Correspondence."
Bromfield, at the same time, was reaching great numbers of
people not only through his best-selling books but personally —
he was tremendously popular. People thronged to his Pleasant
Valley to see his farm, even though they had read the book. On
his farm, he used a huge hayrack drawn by a tractor, in which
he took the crowds around the farm on a tour, personally con
ducted by himself. He explained the various measures of soil
and water conservation by progressive farmers, and was a big ad
vertiser for the Soil Conservation Service. This was a personal
gesture of public service to popularize conservation work.
When I was on my field trips in the area, he frequently in
vited me to stay at his farm, which was always a stimulating ex
perience and a treat. After dinner, we would sit before a big
fire in the living room fireplace. There is one unforgettable
memory of these evenings. Bromfield had a number of large boxer
dogs. When he sat down for the evening, immediately all these
huge dogs rushed in and stretched out on the floor around him
in front of the fire. I never saw so much dog meat at one time,
and I was quite intrigued.
242
Part II The Soil Conservation Service, 1939-1947
Changes _i_n_ Research Program
Chall: I want to talk to you about your final years in the Department
after you returned from your land-use survey abroad, because as
far as the Soil Conservation Service was concerned, these were
years fraught with problems.
WCL: There was a reorganization of research in the Department of Agri
culture. Our research was part of the Soil Conservation Service,
but later research was taken away from us, primarily because
Bennett had not supported it with the appropriations committee.
The Department of Agriculture placed our research in the research
agency of the Department, with headquarters thirty miles out at
Beltsville, in Maryland. Their problems did not come out of the
application of work, which, as I have told you, has always been
my theory of applied research.
This change in sending the research agency to Beltsville
made it no longer within the Soil Conservation Service. . It was
supposed to be a master division of the Department of Agriculture.
This upset all our programs of integrated research that arose out
of questions in the field.
Chall: This took place, I presume, when Nichols was in charge of re
search. Was Nichols as interested in research as you were?
WCL: No, Nichols was not really a research man. The literature car
ried very little that he had done. When he was in Alabama, he
developed research in tillage, that is, types of plows, and draft
necessary to plow different kinds of soils; but aside from that,
he seems to have done very little.
Chall: If this was Nichols' background, it would indicate, I suppose,
that Bennett was not interested in your kind of research.
243
Relations With Bennett
WCL: No, and one of the reasons perhaps was that I called In for con
sultation some of our leading scientists, because I said that we
were dealing with geologic processes. We recognize and study
them from that point of view: that erosion is a part of the
planation of the earth's surface.
This appealed to Robert A. Millikan, president of Cal Tech.
He came and made a statement before our appropriations committee
hearings; and Isaiah Bowman, the great geographer and president
of Johns Hopkins, was keenly interested in all I was doing while
developing the research program. I always felt free to go to the
National Academy and talk things over with him.
This is the kind of atmosphere in which we were developing
our research. These outstanding scientists saw how our research
fitted in with theirs, and theirs with ours, thus strengthening
the whole attack upon these problems.
Chall: This may have been too much for Bennett, who really wasn't
trained as a scientist as you had been, and perhaps resented
your contacts with these scientists.
WCL: Yes, I presume so. He felt an assistant chief in charge of
research should not have the prestige of these associations.
Chall: I have here two quotations I wish you would comment on. I con
sider it rather interesting, in light of what we've been discuss-
i ng .
The first one is, "Bennett's success was spectacular, but
his methods were abrasive."*
The second one is, "Like most forceful leaders, he was am
bitious; numerous persons then felt, and have since, that many
of Bennett's maneuvers were dictated largely by a desire to en
hance his personal position. However, there has never been any
serious denial of his devotion to the cause of soil conserva
tion."**
*Robert Morgan, Governing Soil Conservation, Resources for
the Future (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins Press, 1966), p. 4.
**R. Burnell Held and Marion Clawson, Loil Conservation in
Perspective, Resources for the Future (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins
Press, 1965), p. 43.
244
Chall: How do you feel about those two opinions?
WCL: Bennett wasn't very diplomatic. He'd ride roughshod. He liked
to be in a position where he could put on the screws and force
people into position. That was one thing I wouldn't stand for.
He couldn't bear competition in this matter of erosion. He
wanted to be the man who spoke with authority on It, and anyone
who had other ideas was not tolerated. His soil conservation
office developed into a place for informational publicity. Ben
nett was a master publicist.
For instance, in 1934 we were going over to the Cosmos Club
for lunch. We walked out together from the Department of Agri
culture and the sky was overcast. I was suspicious and began to
rub my teeth together. I recognized dust, such as. I'd experienced
in northwest China, when the loess soil is blown up into the upper
ai r.
I said, "Hugh, do you know what this is?" He didn't know.
I said, "You can't see the Washington Monument. Ct> you know what
causes it?" "No," he said.
"It's dust," I said. "It's blowing up dust 1 rom some area
in the southwest United States, because the wind is blowing
northeast."
Immediately he got this story off to the press. He tele
phoned out to our men in Texas. They reported dust blowing so
thick they had to turn auto lights on in the daytime, because
dust blotted out the sun. This was the type of thing Hugh was
very quick at doing. He got results too.
Chall: Yes, he certainly did. He got a major appropriation out of
that dust storm.
WCL: He was very jealous of the idea of being called the father of
soil conservation. That's where I think our trouble arose. One
of the reasons was that in applying my research, ! had worked out
the Jordan Valley Power and Irrigation scheme in Palestine. This
aroused interest in many circles and gave me both national and
international recognition. My name was often in the New York Times,
and in letters and editorials in most papers around the country.
This was hard for Bennett to take.
Later, I went to China on a second trip in 1942, and I came
back with a movie film which the National Geographic edited for
me. I gave an illustrated lecture for them at the regular Fri
day night National Geographic lecture series, to about four thou
sand people in Constitution Hall in Washington, D.C. I also wrote
an article for them which was the leading article in the July,
245
WCL: 1945, National Geographic Magazine, entitled, "China Fights
Erosion With U.S. Aid."
It was rather amusing that Bennett asked to have It arranged
for him too to give a lecture at the National Geographic Friday
night program, but it was refused after they tried him out.
After my retirement, various countries in Africa asked for
me to come as a consultant to them. This added to my Interna
tional reputation, so Bennett decided he wanted some overseas
trips too. But he was not too enthusiastic afterward, for he
was fearful of plane travel, high altitudes and strange peoples.
I was amused when Bennett said to one of our Soil Conserva
tion Service men, "I can't have Lowdermilk, an Assistant Chief
of the Service, called Doctor Lowdermilk and I, as Chief, being
cal led Mister."
He then directed this colleague, I was told, to go to his
Alma Mater and have them give him an Honorary Degree, which was
done. Henceforth, he was always Dr. Bennett. I was glad that
he could get without effort what was a long hard pull for most
of us.
Chall: His feelings about you vacillated, from the very beginning when
he didn't want to shake your hand on the day you first came Into
the Department.
WCL: That wasn't a very pleasant situation, but I didn't pay any at
tention to it. I began to work very hard in our rapidly enlarg
ing Erosion Service and numerous times in those strenuous first
years, he more than once said, "I lean on Walter a:; a sapling on
an oak tree." This was a period of harmony. Only after the Ser
vice was developed and running well did he feel I was a competitor
that must be eliminated so he would stand out as the father of
soi I conservation.
But the thing that pretty much capped the climax was the
big testimonial dinner for me, with a nation-wide radio hook-up
and speeches by several senators. There was an audience of some
three hundred. Senator Wagner of New York was chairman, and some
of the foremost leaders of Congress, and many leading Wash ing-
ton ians that included Bennett, were invited. My wife said that
she looked over his way a few times and he was white with rage.
He got up and left before it was over, and never mentioned the
honors to me or the dinner.
Chall: It must be hard to feel so jealous of a colleague.
WCL: It's unfortunate that some people are of such a nature that they
cannot see their fellows receive rewards.
245a
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
SOIL CONSERVATION SERVICE
Washington 25, D. C.
Jun« 27. 19/»7
Dr. Walter C. Lowdermilk
1520 "H" Street, Northwest
Cosmos Club
Washington, D. C.
Dear Dr. Lowdermilk:
It gives me a great deal of pleasure to transmit to you the certificate
of the Secretary of Agriculture designating you a Collaborator in the
Department in order that you may remain a part of the official family
after your retirement on July 1, 1947. I congratulate you for this
recognition of your outstanding service and accomplishment in the
Department.
It is well known that you hare established an international reputation
as an authority on major phases of soil erosion, soi] and water con
servation, ano flood control. We are all aware of your valuable con
tributions to federal and other agencies endeavoring to use this
information properly, and we are especially proud of your contributions
to the soil conservation program.
The Soil Conservation Service is grateful that you have consented to
remain in the official Departmental family after your retirement from
active duty, and it is my aoet sincere personal hope that you will
never permit retirement to dim your active interest and participation
in the national soil conservation program. The entire staff of the
^ervice jcit.s with me in wishing you good health au.u l.ui-pLness in the
years to cone.
I want to &>:« a brief reference to your classic research an the function
of forest litter, particularly its relation to infiltration cf atonr.
waters: In my opinion, this work of yours rnbult-n in one n'' '-he most
fundamental discoveries in the field of soil conservation science, as
well as ii, the field of forestry.
Sincerely,
-5 Hi •
fin \\ \i<
/ .A ""^i
/
Chief
AH
245b
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
WASHINGTON
June 2 7, 1947.
Dr. Yialter C. Lowdermilk
1520 «H" Street, N. Yf.
Cosmos Club
Vfashington, D. C.
Dear Dr. Lowdermilkt
Upon your retirement from active duty June 30, I wish to
express on behalf of the Department our sincere appreciation
of your contributions to the Soil and Water Conservation,
and Land Use activities of the Department and for the advice
and counsel you have rendered to the many other organizations
and individuals seeking help in preserving the soil. The
Department is proud of the international reputation you have
won in this important field of work and I know you take just
pleasure in both the immediate value of your outstanding
achievements and in the long range importance of your
accomplishments .
I am happy to have you remain a member of the official
family of the Department of Agriculture. Your services in
the years to come as a Collaborator will be of inestimable
value to the Department.
Sincerely yours,
Secretary
246
WCL: When, on my sixtieth birthday, July I, 1947, I suddenly an
nounced to Bennett that I was retiring as of now, he was startled
but greatly relieved to thus be rid of me, I am sure; for then he
became very cordial and wrote me a letter of commendation [hands
letter across desk^. Notice that he expressed appreciation of my
scientific work, mentioning forestry too.
Also, here is a letter from Clinton Anderson, Secretary of
Agriculture. Apparently, my sudden action in retiring startled
the Department, and Secretary Anderson went a long way there to
show that the Department was back of me and appreciated my work,
in spite of Bennett's efforts to minimize my scientific standing
among top scientists.
Chall: Can you remember that about this time, Secretary Anderson was
attempting once again a reorganization of the Department of Agri
culture? He was trying to develop more controls over the Soil
Conservation Service and to integrate it better into the Depart
ment. In this case, as in others, the Soil Conservation Service
had a bill representing its position, and had, of course, its own
sponsors in the Congress.
WCL: Well, you see, this was where the Soil Conservation districts
came in. Bennett used them. He called on them to support him,
using them as a political power.
Chall: This has been understood by people who are now writing about
soil conservation. Whether Bennett had ever realized the power
of the Soil Conservation districts as a political force at the
time they were set up, he certainly was able to use them.
WCL: Do you know the details at the end, how the Department had to
fire Bennett? He'd gotten these Soil Conservation districts to
send delegations to the Department of Agriculture and to the Con
gress. You see, they'd had him set to retire at the age limit,
and he wanted to extend a year beyond this time; <ind then when
the year was up, he wouldn't step down. So instead of separating
him totally from the Service, he was made a consultant in the of
fice of the Secretary of Agriculture, in a little room, I was
told, where he couldn't do anything.
I have never discussed my relationship with Hugh Bennett
before, even with my colleagues. I preferred to put it out of
my mind during the active and very happy years following my re
tirement from the Soil Conservation Service. But because it was
a part of the early years of the Service, and because you seemed
to feel I should include it, I have talked about it with you, for
the record.
247
Gi I bert Grosvenor
Chall: You have mentioned frequently that you gave a lecture and wrote
a leading article for the National Geographic. Did you deal di
rectly with Gilbert H. Grosvenor? What kind of person was he?
WCL: He was a tall, fine-looking, hard-working dedicated man. He set
very high standards for any work done for or by the National
Geographic. He was very conscientious. We had numerous consul
tation?. Their movie editor, Mr. Joe Rideout, edited my China
film and it was truly a beautiful job and made tho lecture a great
success, from what people said.
I must tell a true story about dignified Dr. Grosvenor. Be
fore leaving for the Friday lecture, a maiden aunl- phoned for him
to come over quickly and find out why her prize goldfish had died
(Grosvenor was a specialist on fish). He had to hurry so wrapped
the gold fish in his folded handkerchief and carefully tucked it
in the pocket of his tuxedo.
When he went out after the lecture, several inches of fluffy
snow had fallen. He was about the last one to leave and stood
outside on the corner waiting for a taxi. It had been warm in
side and Dr. Grosvenor unthinkingly grabbed his handkerchief to
wipe his forehead. The goldfish was tossed out into the snow —
there was no trace where it had fallen. Dr. Grosvenor squatted
down and sifted the light snow between his fingers.
A pol iceman across the street watched him for some time, then
came over and said, "Buddy, you better let me take you home." Dr.
Grosvenor continued to sift snow as he said, "No, I won't go home
until I f ind this goldf ish; I have to make a report on it."
The policeman urged, but Grosvenor resisted, saying, "No, I
won't go home until I find this goldfish."
The policeman said, "If I help you, will you go with me?"
And he began to sift the snow through his hands. Almost imme
diately, he grasped a goldfish. Stunned, the policeman said to
Grosvenor, "Say Buddy, you better take me home."
Soil Conservation D i str i cts — Accomp I i sh i ng the Tasks
Chat I: I want to ask you about Soil Conservation districts. At the time
248
Chall: that you came back and made your extensive speaking engagements,
the Soil Conservation districts were quite new. The figures show
that in 1943, the Soil Conservation Service estimated that
96 million acres needed strip cropping, but In 1950, less than
six million acres had been so treated.*
There's a feeling among people analyzing the early days of
the Soil Conservation Service that the Service never was capable
of accomplishing all that it set out to accomplish. As you went
around in the field, did you think the districts were doing all
that was needed?
WCL : We had quite a number of arguments over this. I know that there
were a few who got into the Service who were more or less this
political type and who were always crowding the government to
carry out certain measures in certain districts. That was a de
velopment that came largely after I retired.
I became rather suspicious of this group because the far-
sighted thinking, it seemed to me, was giving way to localized,
temporary advantages that these people wanted, ralher than the
development of the program as a whole for the entire country.
Speaking Tour Through the United States
Chall: You were out making illustrated talks for about a year and a
half after your return from the tour abroad, mainly to give the
new Soil Conservation district people an opportunity to see what
soil erosion had done to lands of the Old World, jmd perhaps be
cause Bennett had already replaced you in research by Nichols.
Did you find that people were Interested and excited by your talk?
WCL: Oh yes. And the illustrated lecture — 1 had good pictures — not
only must they tell the story, but the pictures must have a pic
torial value as well. I had many compliments on the quality of
my slides. To me it was really an inspiration to get out with
the farmers, in their grange meetings and into those Soil Con
servation districts.
Chall: Many of them were quite newly formed, were they not?
WCL: Yes, and I opened up new ideas to them. For instance, I pointed
*Hardin, O£_. cit. , p. 274.
249
WCL: out my method of land survey in Europe and the Middle East. I
had to work rapidly and cover a lot of ground in <) comparatively
short time. I used the measure of a thousand years of agricul
ture.
I asked my guides to take me to fields that, by their own
knowledge or by clerical records, had been farmed for a thousand
years or more. Then we tried to figure out why this field should
be destroyed and those nearby not destroyed. We found that where
land was generally on the level, there was very little loss of
soil. My public conclusion was that one of the most difficult
problems in the long experience of agriculture has been to estab
lish a permanent agriculture on sloping land.
Farmers Are Important
WCL: Then when I gave lectures to these American farmers, I'd say,
"Let's use this measure of a thousand years of cultivation as a
measure of success in conserving your soil." After my lectures,
I'd go out into the field and talk to farmers and ask, "Do you
consider that this field that you're fanning will last a thou
sand years?"
It's only a short time in the history of a country or a
civilization. You must see how important it is that this basic
physical integrity of the soil be preserved. We have the liberty
of choice in farming it with this crop or with that crop, of add
ing more fertilizer or less fertilizer, according to demands. If'
we could safeguard the physical body of the soil, then we had this
liberty of action, and the future of our country would be safe
guarded in the production of foods.
Chall: This was a dramatic way of showing them.
WCL: I would say, "You farmers are most important, you are the founda
tion of our entire social structure in the division of labor. It
isn't until you have produced enough for yourself and more, that
others are released to do something else besides grow food. You're
the basic occupation of all civilization."
Then they began to realize they were more important than
some of the politicians treated them. [laughter] I really had
a lot of fun. Canada repeatedly asked to have me come up to talk
to their farmers, who were also keenly interested.
250
Chi Idren Understand
WCL: remember an amusing incident in the state of Washington where
I was making one of these speeches. There was a 'ichoo I teacher
who wanted the Soil Conservation Service to help her work out a
program for her class on how to plan a farm to control erosion
and grow crops at the same time. She wanted her class to sit up
front in this lecture hall so the children would hear well. The
man in charge refused; he said the children would be noisy and
disturb the meeting. But this determined teacher went to the
Soil Conservation man and begged him to let her class come to the
lecture and take part.
I came in backstage and didn't see the audience before I
went out in front of them. When I saw these sixtv or seventy
youngsters down in the front rows, I said to myself, "I'm going
to talk to these youngsters tonight, and not to the oldsters."
I decided to direct a question to these boys and girls. I
told them of the water wheels of Hama, Syria. Those big water
wheels are seventy feet in diameter and are run by the current,
and they lift water in pipe-like buckets to an elovated trough
to conduct the water to where it is needed. There; used to be
hundreds of these water wheels on the rivers in ancient times,
but now there are only a few left up at Hama in Syria.
I said to the youngsters, "I'm going to give you a puzzle
I want you to answer me after the lecture." I said, "Here this
great wheel is over two thousand years old, but no part of the
wheel is that old. How can that be?" daughter]
When I finished and came down off the platform, these young
sters just swarmed around me, as they were excited. They worked
it out that the constant repairs kept the wheels running for two
thousand years, as new parts replaced old ones. Instead of being
a nuisance the children were an Inspiration.
One of these boys took this matter of gullies, to heart. HJs
neighbor was an old man of about ninety years, whose farm was
badly cut with gullies. This little fellow said 1o the old far
mer, "Do you know that gullies are washing your soil away?" The
farmer said, "What do you mean?" And the boy said, "Your gullies
are washing your soil away."
The little boy was told, "Oh, that's none of your business.
Go on and leave me alone. Don't bother me." This child went
back to his teacher and said, "You know, teacher, I think this
man is too old to learn." [laughter]
Chal I : When you began public work, you once said you hated to make
251
Chall: speeches. In the intervening years, have you improved?
WCL: Well, I should hope so. At first I read my manuscript and that
was deadening, so I employed Mrs. Butler who taught congressmen
how to become speakers. She demanded that I throw away my manu
scripts and insisted I speak without any support ut al I . I soon
caught the idea. I worked over my material carefully, and then
she had me practice my speech aloud beforehand until I could say
what I wanted without hesitation.
"Conquest of the Land"
WCL: People generally liked this illustrated talk which was my basic
lecture. My "Conquest of the Land" is still one of the most
asked-for public documents of the Department of Agriculture.
I had more demands for this lecture than I w£is able to
handle. I had duplicates made of my slides and mimeographed
the text of the talk. When people wanted a lecture on "Land
Use in the Old World," we sent them the slides and mimeographed
manuscript, so they could work out their own lecture to apply
local ly .
Our field men, when making talks on erosion problems, made
much use of this lecture. There were so many demands for this
that the Department decided to print the lecture which I entitled,
"Conquest of the Land Through Seven Thousand Years,."
Breasted had used "Conquest of Civilization." 1 wanted to
use the title, "Conquest of the Land Through Seven Thousand
Years," as a future elaboration of my work.
Chall: It occurred to me that the average farmer must have found it
immensely interesting.
WCL: I got a lot of inspiration out of it because the farmers, those
at least who were really thoughtful people, recognized that they
were dealing with a resource of inestimable value.
Conservation and the Churches
WCL: Out of this came an annual Sunday meeting called ''Conservation
of the Good Earth." Many churches held such services. This
idea spread all over the United States. Richard Howard Bafley,
the great botanist and agriculturalist, wrote "The Holy Earth."
252
WCL: He emphasized an ethical and moral relationship between man and
the earth. Many of us made Sunday talks, and ministers of all
denominations preached an annual sermon on conservation.
Writing a General Report of the Survey Trij
Chall: Is this a copy of your entire general report of your trip?*
WCL: No, not my entire report. I started out on details of a I I coun
tries studied, and to summarize the entire land use survey, and
articles I had written and to add further impressions as a gen
eral report. But as you see, it was becoming quite voluminous
when only partially completed. No part of it was ever published,
The war came and all else was put aside. This was a docu
ment I had hoped would arouse considerable interest. I had a
staff working on maps and two secretaries working on my dicta
tion. I also had an assistant over at the Library of Congress
who worked up my documentation and references, so we were going
fine until our entry into the war.
Chall: What did you plan ultimately to do with this long report, file
it in the Archives, or use it for research?
WCL: It would be a document that would be available for research. I
had hoped the Department of Agriculture would publish it, even
though it would be as large as the Agriculture Yearbook.
Theories on Regulati ng the Use of Land
Chall: Now I want to discuss with you your theories of lund-use regula
tion. When you went around to newly-formed districts, most were
operating voluntarily. As a matter of fact, in 1951, according
to some figures, only eight of 2,300 districts enforced
*0p_. cit.
253
Chall: regulations.*
In your later material, written after the 1938 trip, you
felt there was need for regulations. I think the result of your
trip dramatized in your mind the need to regulate what people did
with the land.
You wrote in "The Eleventh Commandment" article:**
"The present and future well-being of a people call
for long-range policies for the maintenance of pro
ductive land and resources. These policies must be
founded on what is right for the greatest number of
people in the long run .... Practices of land use
which work against the good of the whole musl be
regulated, whether by law or by public opinion, to
achieve a dual purpose: to maintain individual ini
tiative, and to safeguard the integrity of resources."
Then, elsewhere, you wrote:
"The conservation of the physical resource, the soil
material in place, the heritage of a people, becomes
a high duty of the individual and of the nation. Where
economics of individual interest fail, social economics
must take up the burden, with cooperation, technical
assistance and regulations."***
Then you discussed with Mr. Brandeis something that you
called "the beneficial use of land." Now, can you explain two
things: does the beneficial use of land idea entail regula
tions? And what about your feelings toward regulating land use?
WCL: Let's go back to this beneficial use of land. Actually this
idea came to me in Haifa [Israeli], when we were making the land
survey in I939. Amihud Goor was leading me around to see the
country and give some talks. The Israelis are very thoughtful
people, and Israel was a place where the integrity of the land
resource was a very real problem because there was. no land to
spare or to waste.
*Hardin, op_. c |t . , p. 75.
**W. C. Lowdermilk, "The Eleventh Commandment," Proceedings
of the South Pan Pacific Science Congress, Vol. IV, 1 939, p. 895.
***W. C. Lowdermilk, Tracing Land Use Across Ancient Bounda-
ries, Letters on the Use of Land in the Old World, to H. H. Ben
nett, Chief, Soil Conservation Service, Washington, D.C.,
I940, p. I33.
254
Development of Theories of Water Rights
WCL: It brought to mind the gradual development of rights in the United
States. In England, the common law of riparian rights was the
principle that settled disputes over water, because of the ri
parian juxtaposition of water and the land. When colonists from
Great Britain came to the United States, they settled in the humid
eastern part of the country, so that the principle; of the riparian
right still was adequate to solve disputes over wciter.
But out west where the land and climate were different, and
where waters were diverted out of stream basins to where water
was needed, this principle of riparian right wasn't adequate to
the solution of disputes over land and water. So we had to have
a new principle that we called the right of appropriation, or the
right of prior use.
As a farmer, if you were the first to develop and use water,
you had the first right to use of water. That was the general
practice of the law. But where water was a limiting factor in
the development of land, then the right of prior use was not
adequate.
So we developed, primarily here in California, the right of
beneficial use. In other words, you cannot file on water and
maintain a right to it unless you use it beneficially. You can
not use it wasteful ly, which would mean that you were depriving
someone else of water that he might otherwise have. The right
to water is based upon whether or not water is being used bene
ficially for the community, not the individual alone.
I said in Israel, after I had been over so much land that
had been misused and destroyed, "Why shouldn't we have another
principle — that the right to land is based upon beneficial use?"
Actually, the only real argument we had to take the land away
from the Indian was that he was not using the land beneficially,
to its maximum use.
When I returned, I spoke to Justice Brandeis about this.
I outlined these steps and principles involved, and he said,
"You are right. That's true, but you are fifty years ahead of
your time." Daughter]
Chal I : Now the beneficial use of land would require rather strict
regulations, wouldn't it?
WCL: Absolutely.
255
Individual Enterprise and Regulation
Chall: While you believe in allowing individual enterprise and educa
tion to determine, as far as possible, how a person will use his
land, you feel that land use ultimately requires £.ome regulation,
not only an individual approach?
WCL: Well, yes. Regarding this question of harnessing the energy
motivation of people to problems of making the best use of land
in production of useful crops, I have always said that our ob
jective is to give play to individual initiative, within a frame
work of social objectives, arrived at by the democratic process.
Chall: Now that seems very good, but at what point does the democratic
process set forth the regulations which the farmer has to live
by? Is that done by Congress? By whom?
WCL: Well, we have not yet reached the point where we would accept
this type of regulation. My position has always been that so
long as we have farmers in considerable numbers who want to make
use of our methods of conserving land under use, we can cooperate
with them. Our time generally was so occupied in cooperating
with interested farmers, we left until a later time, attempts to
regulate by law the proper use of land by reluctant farmers.
But as we have seen — and Israel is an excellent example of
it — where land resources are limited, and population is explod
ing, and pressure on the land resource is increasing, then we
have to develop public sentiment for land conservation. By es
tablishing scientific truth of what happens when you do or when
you do not, we can get compliance from a good portion of our
population in this way, perhaps without strict regulations.
But there still would be those who will resist and who will
not of their own accord take care of their land. We have a lot
of trouble at the present time in getting these Soil Conservation
district farmers to comply with these minimum measures we have
worked out that are needed to conserve the soi I under use.
In Israel, where land is limited, if land is damaged or de
stroyed by wrong use, then you not only harm yourself but you are
harming all future citizens who must depend on this or that field.
I many times have said that we must be born again out of an economy
of exploitation into an economy of conservation, as a basic, long-
range point of view.
Chall: But what if you had a farmer living on class four land, and on
which he had paid off the mortgage — what could be done to pre
vent this farmer from going on exploiting the land? Could the
government take him off his own land and put him some place else?
256
Chall: What could be done in a case like 1his?
WCL: Are you acquainted with the lengths the British went to in the
second World War? They passed a law and established farm or
agricultural boards, made up primarily of farmers. They set up
standards of production for maximum results. Then they went an
other step and required that farmers follow these practices that
had proven successful for their particular localities. That's
why these boards of authority covered lands that were more or less
similar in character.
If the farmers didn't comply, these boards went still fur
ther and would take possession or control of the larm. Either
the farmer would be hired to farm his own land under direction,
or he would be given another job. This land would then be turned
over to a recognized successful farmer who would use the land
wi se ly .
This is a case where necessity has brought such regulations
into use. Many here might resist because we have not faced this
necessity. You see, we are still an underpopulated country where
we have land resources more than we need for the present, but not
more than we need for the future.
Chall: It should not be wasted in the present.
WCL: That's right. Our objective is to harness the energy of man and
his mind to carry out measures that will safeguard resources, not
only for the present, but for the future. So I say, let's give
play to individual initiative — we want to keep that alive — but
individual initiative that will operate within the framework of
social objectives. That's where neighbors will have an oppor
tunity to influence the kind of measures necessary, that are ar
rived at by the democratic process.
Chall: Well, that's a good statement. It allows for the development
of regulations —
WCL: I'm very strong on making use of individual initiative, because
that's where originality and motivation are genereited, especially
where it comes to the production of useful things, crops, and
so on.
Flood Control Act of 1944
Cha!!: In your written material you mentioned working on watershed pt
257
Chall: of Soil Conservation Service research. Were you consulted to
help draft the Flood Control Act of 1944 which provided for re
search on eleven watersheds, or to help with administration after
passage?
WCL: The bill that really started this was our bill that was passed
in 1936, the Omnibus Flood Control Act, which, as you remember,
signalled a breakthrough in flood control, but didn't result in
immediate action.
Chall: That's right. Apparently nothing much came of it, and then you
attempted again in 1944 to get some specific work done on water
sheds.
WCL: One of the reasons for the delay was that the war came on.
There was a slowdown. If any additional money was involved, it
was frowned on, because the country was being taxed heavily for
military developments.
The Act of 1944 provided for eleven experimental pilot water
sheds. One of my boys, Carl Brown, was a keen, able young geolo
gist. I put him in charge of this phase of the watershed bill.
He worked at that so ably, and these eleven drainage basins were
so well received, that Congress authorized continuation of this
type of watershed development.
These projects were continued even in Eisenhower's adminis
tration, when he almost ruined our Soil Conservation Service, by
by-passing the civil service and putting political appointees
in technical jobs. But this pilot watershed idea was so suc
cessful that even Eisenhower favored this Act of 1944, which was
rather a new thing for him, to do anything about national or gov
ernmental responsibility. In this bill was included the lands
of towns and villages as well as lands of farms within the pilot
basi n.
In the Soil Conservation districts, we had district super
visors who were farmers and independent of any other organiza
tion. If they favored something and let Congress know It, they
usually got results.
Anyway, this was the basis for the development of this
pi lot project idea.
258
Watershed Development: Urban and Agricultural
WCL: But now the laws have changed so that work on watersheds Is now
concerned as much with urban as with agricultural problems. This
was an amplification or an extension of authority. For Instance,
there is a district in Walnut Creek, California, and up at Santa
Rosa, there Is quite an elaborate one.
Chall: Do you have any feelings about this amplification? There are
some writers who feel that the idea of protecting watersheds from
the point of view of agriculture alone has now been scuttled in
favor of all kinds of watershed projects, regardless of their use
for agriculture. As a matter of fact, I understand that the Soil
Conservation districts changed their name to Soil and Water Con
servation districts, so they could take in all this development
and have some responsibility for it.
WCL: In recent years, I haven't kept up with all that is going on.
But I've been very much interested in It, for I was very keen
on this from the very beginning.
When we get into agricultural and urban problems, we have
to become hydrologists because rain runoff is now very much In
creased by urban sprawl, impervious roofs of houses, street and
highway pavements, parking places, extensive freeway cloverleaves,
and airports.
This produces more runoff than under natural conditions so
you can have destructive flash floods that can overwhelm towns
and villages that are especially affected by these floods. So
our treatment must Include finding out how much runoff we ex
pect from each type of area. This has become very popular among
rural areas.
If you are going to treat this problem at all, which In
volves both agricultural land and flood control In villages, one
must realize we are dealing with the same water, so we have to
become hydrologists. At first the agriculturalists didn't under
stand that flood water in a village was their problem as well as
for the hydrologists.
I usually say that our trouble Is that we haven't prepared
the earth to make the best use of the blessings of heaven that
come in the rains. We have to prepare this earth if we want the
blessi ngs.
259
Technical Committee on_ Forestry and Forest Products
WCL: I wrote a long memorandum on principles of sustained land use
and gave it to the Interim Commission on Food and Agriculture
of the United Nations. I felt the foresters were not giving
enough attention to soils of the forests, actually none at all.
Chall: So yours was supplemental to the published report.* You felt
that they were dealing only with trees.
WCL: Yes. At the White House conference on conservation of natural
resources, which was a landmark in the progress of this develop
ment, Teddy Roosevelt, who was a very far-sighted man, had dif
ferent people give lectures to governors. Little attention was
given to soil losses in our country. It was the destruction of
forests that caught the public attention. People forgot that
forests need soils. Practically no program on soils was dis
cussed.
Pinchot, who was a picturesque individual, a very wealthy
man and politically very powerful, had taken an early interest
in forestry and became acquainted with the foresters, especially
in Germany, and also with Henry Solon Graves, and others here.
As I put it, it took another generation and another Roosevelt
to bring in the problem of conservation of soils.
Chall: At this time, Graves must have been the dean of foresters. As
an older man, he was the chairman of this FAO committee, wasn't
he?
WCL: Yes, and everybody loved Solon Graves. He was a marvelous person.
Chall: Did you get him to accept your idea about consideration of soils?
WCL: Yes. He seemed to be in entire agreement with my long memoran
dum of November, 1944, which laid special emphasis on the role of
soils in the production of forest crops as well as agronomic crops,
This long memorandum was published as Confidential 462.
* Third Report to the Governments of the Un i ted Nations,
by the Interim Commission on Food and Agriculture, Washington,
D.C., April 25, 1945.
260
Measuring Needs of Wood
WCL: I wrote an article entitled, "World-Wide Need of Wood." Also,
I gave a lecture in Philadelphia before the Philosophical Society
that Benjamin Franklin founded. I mentioned wood pulp as one of
the products that had become very important. I expressed the
idea that the advancement, culturally, of a nation can be meas
ured by the amount of pulp per capita in use for newsprint. The
Londoji Times objected to this. C laughter]
How can one find out how much wood the world needs? I used
England as an example of an advanced country which would be eco
nomical in its use of wood, for it couldn't grow enough to meet
the full needs of the country and much had to be imported.
I used that as an indication that the importation of timber
would be a measure of their relative need for timber. We would
have some measure of what an advanced country would need per
capita, if we added to what they grew in timber, what it was
necessary to import.
Chall: So you felt that this FAO commission was not concerned enough
with statistical facts on forests?
WCL: Well, many countries had not yet built up statistical records
of their forests and use of forest products. In some countries
where they had an excess of timber, they could be wasteful. Ofher
countries did not have enough for their needs.
People were concerned not only with commerce in timber, but
were concerned primarily with the product after trees had been
harvested; whereas we foresters, in managing forests, would take
into account the relationship of forests to soil and water, and
how to manage and protect growing timber stands from fire. We
want to get the most out of the forest.
FAO and Forestry
Chall: What has been the result, in terms of FAO and forestry?
WCL: FAO established a branch of forestry. Foresters have been
261
WCL: energetic and cooperative with other foresters here and abroad.
This gives the forester pride in his profession and in the sig
nificance of it. It requires him to think in longer terms, of
a century or more, because he is dealing with a long-range crop
and its indirect benefits.
Foresters were the first to be interested in the wastage of
land by soil erosion, before the agronomist became concerned.
Maintenance of the scenic and inspirational beauties of forests
in the state of nature was a part of the foresters' life and
training.
Chal I : Do you think foresters working in other parts of the world have
these same high motives?
WCL: Yes. There's pride among international and our American forest
ers. You have a camaraderie with anyone trained as a forester.
I have represented the Society of American Foresters at inter
national congresses and felt it quite an honor.
Justice Louis Brandeis
Chall: Can you give me a sketch of Mr. Brandeis, since you knew him
wel I during this time?
WCL: Perhaps it is not necessary to say much more here, for in my
written replies to your questions on my return from Palestine in
1939, I went into more detail. Justice Brandeis was extremely
intelligent, deeply spiritual and conscientious in administering
justice. My contacts with him were an inspiration. We had a
beautiful friendship up until the time of his death.
Chall: So he was a very careful scholar and legal man and a humani-
tari an?
WCL: One of the great spirits of our time.
262
Mrs. Lowdermi Ik Tel Is About Washington, D.C.
White House Receptions
Chall: Do you remember anything in particular about President and
Mrs. Roosevelt?
Mrs. L.: I remember vividly my first reception in the White House. We
gathered in the famous East Room. Then we went in line through
the adjoining Blue Room, where President Roosevelt sat on a high
stool, so one had the feeling that he was standing. An aide
stood beside him to whom we gave our names and Roosevelt was
most cordial to Walter.
When I stepped up, he put out his hand warmly and took
mine; and as he looked in my eyes, he said, "Oh Mrs. Lowder
mi Ik, I'm so glad you could come this evening." Well, I knew
he didn't care a hoot about me, whether I was there or not; but
I appreciated this extreme friendliness and gentleman! i ness
that made him so very popular. The close association we had in
government contacts was very wonderful in those early days. And
what stamina Mrs. Roosevelt had! I've seen her stand out in the
garden and literally shake hands with two thousand people.
And just in contrast — but not to belittle another Presi
dent's wife — I went with the Federated Women's Clubs of America,
when at an annual Washington convention, to Mrs. Truman's for
a reception. The White House was being repaired so they were
I iving in Blai r House.
These Club women were very excited about this supposedly
great social event. I was quite amused as I listened to them.
Many had bought new hats and dresses for the occasion. They
were all dolled up to the utmost of which they were capable.
Blair House was sort of a double house — we were ushered
in one door so guests could make a sort of circle and out an
other door. There were not too many of us, but Mrs. Truman
did not shake hands with anyone. It would be too much of an
effort, I suppose. As each passed by, she smiled and nodded
as they were introduced to her.
Then we went from that room into a sort of family sitting
room adjoining a big banquet room. I went into this dining
room. There was no sign of tea or cakes and no servants were
around. I said to one of the Washington women (a few of us had-
been asked to go along as hostesses), "Heavens, aren't we even
going to get a cup of tea and a cookie?" She said, "If we do
263
Mrs. L.: not, I think it would be utterly disgraceful."
Anyone who went to the Roosevelts1 was served graciously
in recognition that you had come as an honor to them. We all
stood around, waiting for somebody to do something. Finally
the man who led us in the door maneuvered us out the other door.
These leading women from many states were simply furious.
They stormed all the way down the street. To think that ar
rangements had been made and they had been invited to the tem
porary White House by Mrs. Truman, and she not only had not
shaken hands with them, she had not even offered them a cup
of tea or a cookie.
They said, "We know that it isn't because they don't have
the means, because we pay taxes to give them an enormous bud
get for entertaining."
They were hurt that they were not considered important
enough for Mrs. Truman to bother about them. The Federated
Women's Clubs of America were decidedly unhappy and disappointed
with what they thought would be the high point for them in their
annual congress in Washington.
Mrs. Roosevelt and the Girls' Reformatory
Mrs. L.: But we were speaking about Mrs. Roosevelt. She had to endure
a great deal of criticism. Some people wanted a President's
wife to be just a feminine doll, but Mrs. Roosevelt was a per
sonality and a woman of vision and she could not do that.
She was making a public talk in Washington, and expressed
her interest in people generally and their welfare, and said
she would do what she could to help them. Afterward, a Quaker,
a close friend of ours, went up to her and said, "Do you really
mean what you said about interest in people who are down and
out and making life better for them?" Mrs. Roosevelt said,
"Why, indeed I am in earnest."
The Quaker said, "Then I would like to have you come down
and see the Washington Reformatory for Girls." Mrs. Roosevelt
said, "I'll be glad to." She took her name and said, "But I
will have to see my secretary and make a time."
"Well," the Quaker friend thought, "this is the end. This
is just her way out of doing anything." But sure enough, within
a few days, the secretary called and said, "Mrs. Roosevelt would
I ike to make a date to come and see your work at the girls'
264
Mrs. L.: reformatory."
The Quaker showed Mrs. Roosevelt how some of these girls
were in window I ess rooms, or else with windows so high up they
could not see out. Ventilation was very bad, so that In heat
of summer, it would be simply unbearable, and in the cold of
winter, there was no central heating to give the girls the
warmth they needed.
She showed Mrs. Roosevelt some places where girls in des
peration had used their fists to beat on the wall in a frantic
effort to give expression to their frustration in such confine
ment. Actually it was almost a medieval prison.
Mrs. Roosevelt was visibly shocked that this condition
existed in the Capital. Believe me, she did not delay to do
something about it. She raised a public stew. She went to
Congress and got passed whatever was necessary so that these
reformatory girls should have proper heat for winter and proper
venti lation for summer; and not continue in a medieval prison,
but should have certain things that are now a part of modern
reformatories.
Of course, that was thirty years ago. I presume we have
done a lot for such people since then. But before Mrs. Roose
velt, no one had bothered to take an interest in the welfare
of such people.
Herbert Hoover
Mrs. L.: Walter worked with Hoover, and he adored him in many ways; but
yet Hoover didn't have an understanding of the people. He
fought the poor veterans who had nothing and were out of work
when they swarmed into Washington. The depression was on and
these veterans were miserable. Their families were hungry, they
had insufficient winter clothes, and in desperation, they marched
on Washington for help. And Hoover had the soldiers pitch on
them as though they were an enemy coming in, yet they were all
veterans.
Hoover lacked an understanding of poverty. He had money
and gracious living in his own life, and he just didn't under
stand people who were suffering and down and out. He ordered
our army out and drove the veterans away as though they were
enemy encampments.
WCL: When Hoover was my chief in the Belgian Relief, all that reeded
to be said was, "The Chief wants this done," and it was done.
265
WCL: And we looked upon him as a very great leader, but I know of
another case when Hoover took the evening train to Chicago
from Washington.
He came into the dining car and sat down for dinner, and
some friend was with him. The steward was very much excited
that the President was dining with him that evening and was
anxious to have everything just right.
After he'd done quite a bit of serving, he came up to
Hoover and said he was honored to have him, and asked If there
was anything he wished and was everything all right.
Hoover bruskly replied, "If anything wasn't all right, I
would tell you," and turned away.
Mrs. L.: He wasn't very gracious. You see, he just lacked that sym
pathetic touch. If he had given that man a smile and said,
"Everything is just fine," that man would have been lifted up
for weeks to come. As it was, he was squelched completely
and hurt.
Soil Conservation Service: Missionary Zeal
Mrs. L.: In the early days of the Soil Conservation, men had a true
missionary zeal. Some of the men really preached sermons and
warned people about the dangers of soil erosion and the doom
that awaited our country if we did not fight this great enemy.
I remember how Mr. Winston would get as excited as a min
ister preaching against sin and the sinner. With a tremulo
voice and waving his arms, he would almost shout in his seri
ousness of warning people against the dire things that were to
come because of the neglect of our lands and wastage by soil
erosion.
There was a supreme dedication among these early conser
vation men, and they worked hard. There were a number of men
who had heart attacks from overwork. They were so interested,
they wouldn't stop, and some attacks were fatal, which was a
great loss to the work.
In fact, Walter set a terrible pace himself for years and
was able to take this physical pace, whereas some men who tried
to keep his pace just couldn't take it. However, in time ex
haustion overtook Walter and he lay in the hospital nine weeks
to give his wounded heart and body a rest.
696
INDEX
Aaronsohn family, 322-323, 583
Aaron, 581-585, 632
Alexander, 583-584
Rivka, 583-585, 632
Sara, 583-584
Africa, 634-635. See also Chapter XI
Agricultural Missions, Inc., 452, 493-494
Agriculture, Department of, 186, 187, 188, 213,
228, 240, 242, 246, 252
American Christian Palestine Committee, 560
American Geophysical Union, 171, 193, 200
Anderson, Clinton, 196
Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry on Palestine, 193
Arabs. See_ Chapters IX, X, XI, XV, XVI
Ashurst, Henry, 143, 145
Aswan Dam, 312-313, 541-542
Bailey, Reed, 414, 422
Balfour Declaration, 322-324
Barnea, Joseph, 546
Barnes, George, 190
Barrett, — , 124
Beaton , Ruth , 1 6
Ben-David, A., 630
Ben-Gurion, David, 573, 603, 637
Ben-Zvi, Yitzhak, 573, 623
Bennett, Hugh:
as administrator, 149, 155, 157, 165, 199-204 passim,
219, 226, 229, 236, 239, 240
relations with Lowdermilk, 134, 136-137, 181, 182,
188, 191, 196, 243-246, 356
Bessy, — , 377
Black, Albert G. , 180
Boaz, — , 617
Bowles Hal I , 130
Bowman, Isaiah, 179, 236, 240, 243, 437
Bow i e , W i I I i am , 1 69
Brandeis, Louis D., 179, 182, 187, 253-254, 261
Bressman, Earl , 149
Brewster, Owen, 192
Broderick, Walter, 132
Brody, Samuel , 578
Bromfield, Louis, 240, 589
697
Brown, Carl, 257, 506
Browning, Bryce, 230-23 1 a
Bryan, Hugh, 48
Buck, Pearl, 77, 99
Bule, T. S., 155
Buras, Nathan, 627-628, 654
Bush, Vannevar, 179, 186
C.C.C. Camps, 143, 152, 174-177
California Institute of Technology, 135, 169-170, 243
Calkins, Hugh, 142-143
Cannon, Clarence, 354-355
Carmon, --, 594
Carpenter, Farrington, 147-148
Chaney, Ralph, 675, 679
Chapl ine, Ridgley, 49
Chapmen, Burgoyne, 561
Churchill, Winston, 319, 324, 430
Clapp, Earle, 42, 49, 206
Clements, Frederick, 374
demons, Harry, 76, 238
Cohen, Mark, 445-446
Coleman, Earnest, 128
Col lier, Charles W., 140
Col I ier, John, 142
Colons, French, 428-430, 442, 447-451. See also
Independence, North Africa
Conservation:
philosophy of, 90, 223, 229-231, 251-252, 265,
336, 344, 354, 521, 541, 662-667, 683-684
See also Land use
Cooke",~Morris L., 179, 494, 505, 516-519
Cosmos Club, 136, 147, 180, 505
Cotton, John S., 128
Coyle, David Cushman, 589
Crocheron, B. H., 216
Cyprus, 23. See also Table of Contents
Daladier, Eduard, 276
Dana, Samuel , 49
Danel, Pierre, 372, 423-424
Dawson, — , 404
de Breuvery, E. S., 546, 557, 579
de Vidja, — , 647, 657
Doran, — , 639
Dori, Yacov, 615, 640
Drury, Newton, 675, 679
Dust bowl , 167, 175
698
Eakin, Henry, 139, 201-202
Eban, Abba, 633-634
Economic aid, 491-492, 634-636, 656-657. See
also Chapter XVI I
Einstein, Albert, 179
Einstein, Hans Albert, 202
Eisenhower, Dwight, 240, 257
Eisenhower, Milton, 179, 200, 228, 239-240, 352
Eleventh Commandment, 253, 326-328, 378
England, 192-194, 269-270, 367, 498, 550
Erosion:
archaeological proofs of, 295-303, 311, 316-318,
331-333, 341-344, 345-346, 349, 366-374
civilization affected by, 63-64, 93-94, 108,
116, 261, 331-333, 335-336, 343-344
climate as a factor, 63-64, 370-375
tracing through records, 89, 90-91, 140,
144-145, 205, 238, 336, 349-350
Eshkol, Levi, 563, 567, 602
Evenari , Michael, 636
Extension Service, Agricultural, 150-15!, 214-216
Fairchild Aerial Survey Company, 139-140, 169
Famine, 60, 66, 68-71, 88-90, 328, 660-661
Farm Bureau Federation, 150, 215-216
Farmers:
gaining cooperation of, 152-154, 155, 410,
494-495, 568-569, 597-598
practices honored, 142, 162-164, 249, 405-407,
408-409, 410, 576, 654
attitudes in U.S., 148, 152, 161, 162-164, 172,
21 1-214, 250, 255-256
See a I so Tab le of Contents for farmers of other
countries
Fechner, Robert, 174, 175, 177
Finkel, Herman, 614, 625, 640
Fisher, Clarence S., 316
Flood Control Act (1936), 146-147, 228-229, 257
Flood Control Act (1944), 256-257
Flood Control Coordinating Committee, 228
Flood plain zoning, 511, 515, 519-520, 682
Food and Agriculture Organization, 259-260, 566,
568, 595, 609, 626, 630, 647-648, 653, 658, 661
Forest fires, 51-55, 213-214
Forest Service:
Forest Experiment Station, 110, 121-130, 135
Forsling, Clarence, 49
French, Percy, 678
Fritz, Emanuel, 206
Ful ler, Richard E., 414, 422
699
Gautier, --, 302, 372-373, 440
Gerard, Jim, 45, 52, 54
Gil, Nathan, 563, 567, 592-596, 598
Gilman, Herb, 123-124, 126-127
Glick, Philip, 155
Glueck, Nelson, 316-318, 319, 325, 368-370, 564
Godet, — , 302, 371-372
Goldschmidt, Martin J., 320, 581
Goldstein, Sidney, 378, 609, 624
Goor, Amihud, 253, 316, 320, 362, 363
Goor, Assaf, 316, 362
Gordon, A. D. , 586-589, 642
Goss, Ambassador, 404
Granger, Christopher, 175
Graves, Henry Solon, 22, 48, 57, 259
Grazing, Bureau of, 147
Greece, 290, 550-551
Greeley, William B. , 32, 39, 42
Greenway, Isabella, 143, 145
Grosvenor, Gilbert, 179, 247
Gsell, Stephane, 302, 372
Gung' I , Esther, 16
Guy, P. L. 0., 362, 366, 369, 564, 581
Gvati, Chaim, 575
Hadassah, 183
Ha I pern, Halm, 592
Hamburg, Sam, 588-589, 646
Hami I ton, — , 128
Harper, --, 370
Harrold, Lloyd L., 166
Hatfield, Ira, 171
Hayden, Carl, 143, 145-146, 147, 149-150, 540
Head ley, Roy, 49
Heinze, Herb, 683
Hobart, Alice Teasdale, 78
Hoover, Herbert, 9, 10, 264-265
Hoover Dam, 168
Homer, H., 171
Horton, R. E., 171
Hu Shih, Ambassador, 379, 404
Huntingdon, Ellsworth, 63-64
Hursh, Charles R. , 167
Hurst, H. E., 312
Hutcheson, Joseph, 194
Ickes, Harold, 139-140, 147-149, 168-169, 201, 225,
234
700
Independence:
North Africa, 433, 442-443, 447-451
South and West Africa, 475, 490-492
Indians, American, 141-143, 161-162
Interior, Department of, 234-235, 543
Israel, agricultural settlements, 320, 373-374.
See also Kibbutz, Chapters IX, XV
Jardine, Jim, 166
Jarvis, C. S., Major, 370
Johnson, Jed, 150
Jordan River, 190-191, 195, 244, 325, 543, 570
Kaplan, — , 560
Kapnek, J. K., 500
Kellogg, Charles, 199-200, 203, 224
Kibbutz, 562, 604-607, 636-637, 642-644
Kilimanjaro, Mount, 504
Klaus, Don, 568
Knapp, Robert, 135, 226
Kotok, E. I., 122, 128, 129-130, 134
Krimgold, Dov, 128, 166-167, 220, 596
Ladejinsky, Wolf, 535-536, 539
Lahav, — , 320, 581
Lake Mead, Nevada, 140, 169
Land use:
social objectives, 206, 223, 252-256, 258, 260,
394, 507-508, 587-588, 590-59!
Lattimore, Owen, 549-550
Lawson, Andrew C., 168
Leopold, Aldo, 49, 50
Leopold, Luna, 50
Leopold, Starker, 50
Lesci, --, 302, 371-372
Library of Congress, 237-238
Lilienthal, David, 171-172
Litter, forest, 45, 55, 63, 113-115, 120, 162-164, 204
Loeb, Max, 612, 626
Lord, Kate, 241
Lord, Russel I, 241, 589
Louderback, George D. , 119
Lowdermilk, W. C., administrative techniques:
in China, 408-410
in Israel, 568, 595-599
In Morongo, 668-674
in redwoods, 682-683
in SCS, 140, 154, 212, 218, 226-227, 243
in Yugoslavia, 654, 657
701
Lowdermilk Terraces, 167-168
Lowdermi Ik, William F., 359-360, 578, 676
Lowdermilk, Winifred Esther, 359-360, 414, 416, 676
Loyalty probe, 547-553
McCarthy, Joseph, Senator, 547, 550
McKnight, Cleveland, 267, 316, 351, 359, 360-361
Magnes, Judah L., 320, 365
Mandel , Samuel , 628
Manson, Philip, 609, 624
Marbut, Curtis F., 199, 203-204
Marquis, Clyde, 179
Marsh, George, 46, 370
Marshal I Plan, 437
Martin, M., 439-440
Mason, F. R., 320
Meir, Golda, 560
Mekong River, 544, 553-554
Merriam, C. Hart, 179
Merriam, J. C., 179, 234
Midrasha Agricultural School, experiment station,
563, 567, 600, 613
Mil ler, F. G. , 52, 56
Mi I I ikan, Robert, 243
Mirov, N. T., 83
Missionaries, 460, 464, 466-468, 474, 475, 476, 483,
484-485, 487-490, 493
Mulford, Walter, 49
Myer, Di I Ion, 154-155
Myles, Wayne, 568
Nanking, Union University, 60-61, 65-66, 74
National Geographic Society, 244-245, 247
Neumann, Emanuel, 187, 191
Nichols, Mark L., 182, 242
Nigeria, Kano, 462
Office of War Information, 188, 190
O'Neal, Edward, 216
Oppenheimer, — , 591
Orchard, John E., 437-438
Oxford, 3, 5-7, 10-12, 23-24. See also Rhodes scholar
Palestine, 186-195. See also Chapter IX
Palestine, Joint Survey Commission, 590-592
Paricutin, Mexico, 120, 532. See also Table of Contents
Parker Dam, 170
Peek, George, 159
702
Peretz, Joe, 619
Petrie, Sir Flinders and Lady, 316, 366, 369-370, 564
Picard, Leo, 320, 581
PInchot, Gifford, 47-49, 206, 259
Population control, 70-71, 449-451, 456, 460, 634.
See also Chapter XVI I
Preston, John, 208
Puerto Rico, 167-168
Putnam, Herbert, 179, 237
Rabicovich, — , 581
Radi, M., 334, 365
Reed, Edward, 206
Reifenberg, Adolph, 320, 362, 581, 586, 589-590
Reisner, George, 311, 368
Reisner, John, 61, 66, 106, 452, 493-494
Renner, Fred, 550
Rhodes scholar, 3, 4, 7, 8, II, 17-18
Richthofen, Von Ferdinand, 63-64
Rideout, Joe, 247
Ringland, Arthur, 228-229
Rivers, Flora, 16
Roosevelt, Mrs. Eleanor, 179, 262-264
Roosevelt, Franklin D.:
administrator, 134, 140, 146, 149, 155, 238
host, 179, 262-263
international leader, 428, 430, 448-449
Roosevelt, Theodore, 238, 259
Rowe, Percy, 128
Ruppin, --, 320, 644
Rutledge, R. H., 50
Ryerson, Knowles, 133, 232-233, 590-591
Sale, G. N., 320, 581
Sampson, Arthur, I 10
Samsonov, Malka, 584, 585, 632
Savage, John L., 194
Schaaf, C. Hart, 554
Schenck, Carl, 48-49, 57
Schlich, Sir William, 18, 20, 22, 45, 48-49
Shaw, Charles, 136
Shazar, S. J., 640
Sherman, L. K. , 171
Sicawey Observatory (Shanghai), 72, 557
Si Icox, F. A., 125, 173, 206
Sinclair, D. , 129, 135
Singleton, Sir John, 194
Smith, J. Russel I, 83
703
Soil Conservation Service:
California, 216
U.S., 278, 534, 550-55 1 , 593-594
See also Chapter V I I I
Souter, Wi I I iam E. , 66
State Department, 188-189, 191, 358, 384, 403-405,
448-449, 618-619, 620-621
Strahorn, Arthur T., 591
Sundling, --, 128
Technion Society, American, 578
Tennessee Valley Authority, 171-172, 215, 518, 521
Thornthwaite, Charles Warren, 552
Todd, 0. J., 91-94, 412
To I I ey , Howa rd , 1 79
Tourney, James, 48
Truman, Harry, 193, 507, 509, 518-519
Truman, Mrs. Harry, 262-263
Tugwell, Rexford, 133-134, 149, 173
United Nations:
Technical Assistance Board, 545, 658-659
See a I so Food and Agriculture Organization
Vannoni, Vito, 135, 226
Volcani, — , 320, 364, 644
Wagner, Robert, 192
Wallace, Henry, 125, 158, 179, 181, 183, 229,
232-233, 356
Watt, Bil I, 23, 381
Weisgal , — , 633
Weitz, Ronan, 598
Weizmann, Chaim, 179, 320, 322, 559-560, 590,
592, 602
White Paper, 1939, 323-325
Whitney, Mi I ton, 203
Wickes, Dean, 237-239
Wiener, Aron, 639
W! I I is, Bai ley, 238
Wilson, M. L., 125, 151, 179, 229, 235-236
Wilson, Woodrow, 37
Wo I man, Abel, 192
Yadin, Yigael, 368
Yarden, Hanan, 573
704
Yarden, Rachel, 99, 573
Zionist Emergency Organization, 187, 191
Zon, Raphael, 48-49, 57, 118, 172, 205-206
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