Cy5Vot. :^9/
HARVARD COLLEGE
LIBRARY
GIFT OF THE
GOVERNMENT
OF THE UNITED STATES
THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT
OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY
Structure — Objectives — Leadership
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMEEJCAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OE EEPRESENTATIYES
EIGHTY-FIFTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
PART 1
SEPTEMBER 2 AND 3, 1958
Printt'd for the use of tlie Comuiittee on Un-Ameriean Activities
(Index in Part 3)
HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARY.
DEPOSITED BY THE
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
MAY U 1959
UNITED STATES
COVKKNIMBNT PRTNTTNC OFFICK]
3S253 WASHINGTON : 1959
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Representatives
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York i
CLYDE DOYLE, California DONALD L. JACKSON, California
EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio
WILLIAM M. TUCK, Virginia ROBERT J. McINTOSH, Michigan i
Richard Aeens, Staff Director
' Congressmen William E. Miller of New York and August E. Johansen of Michigan were appointed
mcnihcrs of the committee by the 86th Congress, replacing Mr. Kearney and Mr. Mcintosh.
CONTENTS
IWRT 1
September 2, 1958: Testimony of —
Dorothy Ray Healey 18
Afternoon session:
Dorothy Ray Healey (resumed) 49
Statements of Loren Miller and Al Wirin (attorneys for Don
Wheeldin) 54
Mary Lois Newman 55
David Francis Arkin 58
Thomas D. Creed 63
Horace V. Alexander 68
September 3, 1958: Testimony of —
Cyril Valentine Briggs 75
Alexander Ende 82
Herbert Biskar 84
Marvin Biskar 90
Sophie Kishner 93
Joseph Solomon 96
Stella Choyke Biber 99
Afternoon session:
Joseph I. Gavron 102
Esther Goldie Sokolow 110
Sakae Ishihara 114
Bernard Burton 118
PART 2
September 4, 1958: Testimony of —
Harriet Blair 137
Lorris Gosman 140
Jane Swanhuyser 142
Julius Kovner __ 144
Bertha Marshall 148
Ellie Henrickson 152
Fay Kovner Makes 159
Rosemary Lusher 162
Afternoon session:
Rosemary Lusher (resumed) 168
Reva Mucha Zwolinski 180
Leon Pape . 187
Edith Weiner Pape 192
Naomi Claire Blair _ 196
Sophie Silver 201
Jessie Josephson 203
Archibald MacNair, Jr _ 205
Charles H. Mosley, Jr 207
Felix Padilla ._ 209
Eli Katz 2!0
III
IV CONTENTS
September 5, 1958: Testimony of— Page
William A. Wheeler,". 213
Jerry Atinsky 214
Margarete Ann Byler 218
Elizabeth Ricardo Jackson 220
Ola Ross Pacifico 222
Henry Sazer 224
Vivian Vallens 227
Leo Baefsky 230
Estelle Parness 232
Irving Sarnoff _ 233
William W. Talbot 235
PART 3
Febniarv 24, 1959: Testimonv of—
■ Charlene Mitchell _ _' 237
Seymom- D. Brodsky 254
Admiral George Dawson 255
Eleanor Smith 258
Clarence George Young 260
Afternoon session:
Helen Blair 263
Ethel Biskar 267
Edward M. Enfiajian L 270
August Mavmudes 273
Shifra Goldman 274
Februarv 25, 1959: Testimonv of—
' Matilda Molina Tollv 279
Mark Robinson 282
Delfino Varela 284
Ben Karr 288
Afternoon session:
Sophie Siminoski 290
Harry Hunt 293
Arthur Brown 296
Robert Klonskv 301
Philip Rafalow'_ 304
Solomon Monroy 306
Index i
Public Law 001, 79th Congress
The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter
753, 2(1 session, wliich provides:
Be it enacted by the Senate and ffnut^e of Repn-Kcnlative-'^ of the Ignited Slates
of Ameriea in Congress assembled, * * *
PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Rule X
.SKC. 121. STANDING COMMtTTKES
18. (!ominittee on Un-American Activities, to consi.st of nine Members.
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
:ii :}; :t! :(::(: H= *
(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities.
(A) Un-American activities.
(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit-
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent,
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any necessary
remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting,
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated bj' any such chairman or member.
Rule XII
LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT BY STANDING COMMITTEES
Sec. 136. To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of the laws
and in developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem neces-
sary, each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Representatives
shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the administrative
agencies concerned of any laws, the subject matter of which is within the jurisdic-
tion of such committee; and, for that purpose, shall study all pertinent re{)orts
and data submitted to tin; Congress l)y the agencies in the executive l)r;nich of
the (lovernment.
RULES ADOPTED BY THE 85TH CONGRESS
House Resolution 5, Jan nary 3, 11)57
*******
Rule X
STANDING COMMITTEES
1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con-
gress,
*******
((j) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members.
*******
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
18. C!ommittee on Un-American Activities.
(a) Un-American activities.
(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee,
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, char-
acter, and objects' of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop-
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu-
tion, and (3) all other cjuestions in relation thereto that would aid Congress
in any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advi.sable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.
2G. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary,
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness
of the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee; and, for that
purpose, shall study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House by
the agencies in the executive branch of the Government.
THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT OF THE
COMMUNIST PARTY
Structure — Objectives — Leadership
(Part 1)
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBEB 2, 1958
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Los Angeles^ Calif.
executive session ^
The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10 a.m., in room 229,
Federal Building, Los Angeles, Calif., Hon. Francis E. Walter (chair-
man) presiding.
Present: Representatives Francis E. Walter, of Pennsylvania, and
William M. Tuck, of Virginia.
Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel, and AVil-
liam A. "WHieeler, investigator.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand? Will you swear
the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the wliole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mrs. Healey. I do.
The Chairman. The committee will come to order.
This hearing is autliorized by the following resolution of the Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities, House of Representatives:
Be it resolved, That a hearing by the Committee ou Uu-Ameriean Activities,
or a subcommittee thereof, to be lield in. Los Angeles, Calif., or at such other
place or places as the chairman may designate, on such date or dates as the
chairman may determine, be authorized and approved, including the conduct of
investigations deemed reasonably necessary by the staff in preparation therefor,
relating to the extent, character, and objects of Communist Party activities in
California, with special reference to such activities in southern California, the
legislative purpose being:
(a) to obtain additional information for use by the committee in its considera-
tion of section 16 of H.R. 9.352
Mr, Margolis. May I have that section, section IG-
The Chairman. Of H.R. 9352.
1 Released by the committee and ordered to be printed.
The executive testimony herewith released formed part of the background information
on which is based the "Report on the Southern California District of the Communist
Party: Structure — Objectives — Leadership," H. Rept. No. 259, released by the Comniittfe
on T'n-Anieriean Activities on April 3, 1050.
17
18 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
relating to the proposed ameudmeut of section 4 of the Communist Control Act
of 1954, prescribing a penalty for knowingly and willfully becoming or remain-
ing a member of the Coimnunist Party with knowledge of the purposes or ob-
jectives thereof; and
(b) to obtain additional information, adding to the committee's overall knowl-
edge on the subject so that Congress may be kept informed and thus prepared
to enact remedial legislation in the national defense, and for internal security,
when and if the exigencies of the situation require it.
Be, it further resolved, That the hearings may include any other matter within
the jurisdiction of the committee, which it, or any subcommittee thereof ap-
pointed to conduct this hearing, may designate.
Let the record sho^Y that pursuant to law and the rules of this com-
mittee, I, as chairman, appointed a subcommittee for the purpose of
conducting these hearings composed of Representatives William M.
Tuck, Bernard Kearney, as associate members, and myself, Francis
E. Walter, as chairman.
The order of appointment of the subconnnittee will be set forth
in the record at this point :
(Information referred to follows :)
August 27, 1958.
To Mr. Richard Arens, Staff Director, House Committee on Un-American
Activities:
Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the rules of this committee, I
hereby appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities,
consisting of Representative William M. Tuck and Representative Bernard W.
Kearney, as associate members, and myself, Francis E. "Walter, as chairman, to
conduct executive hearings in Los Angeles, Calif., beginning on Tuesday, Sep-
tember 2, 1958, on the subjects under investigation by the committee, and take
such testimony on said day and succeeding days, as it may deem necessary.
Please make this action a matter of committee record.
If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me.
Given under my hand this 27th day of August 1958.
Francis E. Walter,
Chairman, Committee on Un-Am,erican Activities.
The Chairman. A majority of the subcommittee is present.
The subcommittee has determined that this hearing will be in ex-
ecutive session.
Tlie committee resolution adequately sets forth the subject and pur-
poses of this hearing.
Information has come to the committee of renewed Communist
Party activities in this, a highly sensitive and important area of the
country. The degree and extent of this renewed activity is deemed by
the committee to be of such importance to the national welfare and
defense of the country as to justify this investigation in order that
remedial legislation may be recommended in this field designed to
meet new threats of subversion.
Mr. Margolis. I wonder, in the light of the statement of purpose,
if I miglit have a few moments to consult with my client.
We heard this for the first time now.
(Witness confers witli counsel.)
Mr. Margolis. Thank you.
TESTIMONY OF DOROTHY RAY HEALEY, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, BEN MARGOLIS
The Chairman. Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Please state your name and place of residence.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 19
Mrs. Healey. My name is Dorothy Ray Healey.
Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please iden-
tify himself for the record ?
Mr. Margolis. My name is Ben Margolis, 112 West 9th Street, Los
Angeles, Calif.
Mr. Tavenner. What did you give as the residence ?
Mrs. Healey. 1733 1/2 West 84th Street.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you the wife of Mr. Phil Connelly ?
Mrs. Healey. Mr. Tavenner, I would like to ask a question, if I
may, at this point, in regard to the question of the nature of the hear-
ing. This is an executive session. I am wondering. Congressman
Walter, whether at the conclusion of my testimony this committee is
going to issue any release to the papers about the testimony. I am
concerned about it in regard to the question of my testimony here as
well as the question of the release to the papers.
The Chairman. I think we share your concern in that. That, I
think, is important. We are going to discuss that question when we
are able to get the committee together. We are not disposed to make
this public. We are hoping that by so doing you will cooperate with
us and give us every bit of assistance that we are sure that you can.
So for that reason we are not for the moment going to decide this
question.
Mrs. Healey. Well, the question in my mind. Congressman, is that
I am quite certain from previous experiences that the minute I leave
the hearing room the press, of course, will be out there, and I am con-
cerned. I don't care to be one to set the precedent of releasing testi-
mony.
On the other hand, I want to protect my own reputation and my own
testimony here. Therefore, if there is going to be any such release
now or later, I would like to know it now so I can guard myself
accordingly.
The Cir AIRMAN. I cannot answer the question. I do not think there
will be any. I assume there will not be a release of the transcript
of the testimony. That I will promise.
Mrs. Healey. Will there be a digest of the testimony given by Mr.
Wheeler or Mr. Tavenner or you gentlemen to the press ?
The Chairman. It will not be done. If they find out what liap-
pened here, that is something we have no control over.
Mr. Margolis. We have trouble hearing you, sir, I am sorry.
May we have read back what you said ? I couldn't hear you.
The Chairman. The answer is, we will not officially release tliis
i estimony.
Go ahead, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. The question was: Are you the wife of Mr. Pliil
Connelly ?
Mrs. Healey. I am.
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born ?
Mrs. Healey. I was born in Denver, Colo., September 22, 1914.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your maiden name ?
Mrs. Healey. Dorothy Rosenblum.
Mr, Tavenner. Did you engage in activities of the Young (^om-
munist League in soulhern (California in (he 11);)0"s under the name
of Dorothy Ray?
20 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mrs. Healey. Well, this is — after listening to Congressman Walter
as to the legislative purpose of this inquiry, the Supreme Court has
ruled that the activities of the Communist Party are protected, the
political activities of the Communist Party are protected by the first
amendment as are the activities of any other political party or organi-
zation. It is clear that this committee could not bring in legislation
in regard to the activities, of the Communist Piii'ty as it has not been
able to do heretofore and has been upheld as unconstitutional.
Secondly, the fact remains that if there are activities that are not
protected by the first amendment, there are certainly avenues by the
U.S. Government on behalf of the United States to guarantee the
ceasing of such activities.
I happen to have suffered some 6 years of persecution on the ques-
tion of the first amendment and the protection of that first amendment,
and fi.nally, as I was sure G years earlier, the Supreme Court ruled
and the Department of Justice later had to concur, in regard to
renewed persecution, that there was nothing in my lifetime of activities
of any kind that could Avarrant conviction in regard to any of the
legislative questions or the questions of this inquiry which Congress-
man Walter opened the hearing on.
Because of that I therefore, first of all, decline to answer that
question on the ground of the first amendment which prohibits this
committe from inquiry into activities around ideas.
I decline to answer on the ground of the 10th amendment, which very
wisely our forefathers guaranteed to be inserted in order to say to
any future political politicians that the activities of citizens are going
to be pi'otocted and not only by the first br.t liy the clear statement
ihat Avhatever poAvers are not delegated to the U.S. Government ex-
pressly by the people through the Constitution and the Bill of Rights
are relegated and saved to the people. I further decline to answer on
the ground of the fifth amendment.
I claim the privilege against self-incrimination.
The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.
Mrs. Healey. The same answer.
Mr. Tavener. Were you formerly the wife of Don Healey ?
Mrs. Healey. I am not going to give you any answers to any further
questions of this kind on the same grounds ; and further on the grounds
that none of these questions are ])ertinent to any legislation which this
committee could possibly bring into the Congress or which could
possibly be upheld as constitutional.
The Chairman. You are directed to answer that question .
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. How did you acquire the name of Eiiy ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Ta\-enner. How do you spell Ray ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Is the spelling of the name Ray, R-a-y or R-a-e?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. May I have a direction to answer ?
The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
The Chairman. You see, one of the reasons for this inquiry is Ihc
vpry decision yoii are talking about, because it is inroncoivnble to us
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 21
and to other Americans who have some smattering of knowledge of the
law that the Supreme Court would find that the Communist con-
spiracy is a political party. That is one of the purposes of these
broad, general questions. We are hoping that the Supreme Court will
take another guess.
Mrs. HQealey. The point is, Congressman, if I may explain why I am
answering this way, is that in regard to the question of conspiracy,
first of all, the Supreme Court — I happen to be one where the Supreme
Court has already found that I am not a part of any conspiracy, but
secondly, my experience in a very long trial was that one can find
oneself involved through what I gather legally is third party declar-
ants in a conspiracy which one may have absolutely no knowledge of.
I, therefore, must protect myself as well as the political activities of
other Americans as well as the legal political activities of any minority
political party in its functioning, and any answer, in my opinion, only
makes it more possible to claim the validity of the right of this
committee to ask.
I must say that in regard to that it is my opinion that the mandate
which this committee functions under is itself illegal inasmuch as the
first amendment so expressly and specifically forbids legislation in the
realm of ideas that the committee could not bring forth legislation
which could conceivably be upheld as constitutional.
Mr. Tavennee. Were you at one time organizational secretary of
the Los Angeles County organization of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Healey. I must decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you at one time chairman of that organiza-
tion?
Mrs. Healet. I must decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you at this time the chairman of the Communist
Party's new Southern California District?
Mrs. Healet. The same answer.
Mr. TA^'E]s^NER. Of the Communist Party ? Are you at this time a
member of the National Committee of the Communist Party of the
United States?
Mrs. Healet. I should explain further in answer to your question
that nothing in my lifetime, and there have been some thirty years
of my life devoted to political activities within this country, have I
done anything that I consider illegal or w^hich I am ashamed of. As
a matter of fact, I am very proud of a lifetime of service to the Con-
stitution and to democracy.
If any group of citizens, including you two gentlemen sitting as a
subcommittee representing the Congress of the United States, are
genuinely interested, truly concerned with getting information as to
political activities of one Dorothy Healey, I can assure you that
if you will recess yourselves as a committee I would be very glad to
answer all questions of you or any other groups of citizens of these
United States; and I would be equally glad to do it under oath in
order to not have people say that you will answer these things when
you are not under oath. I will answer under oath to any group of
citizens, all questions without reservation as to both political activi-
ties, all questions relating to my own life. I would not, of course,
ever answer any questions with regard to other citizens' activities,
Mr. TA^^:N]S'ER. May I liave a direction?
22 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.
Mrs. Healey. The same answer.
The Chairman. Didn't you make comment when the Supreme
Court decision came down to the effect that "Now we will move for-
ward," something of that sort ?
Mrs. Healey. May I consult with my attorney ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Healey. The same answer.
The Chairman. I quoted that on the floor of the Congress. It is
in the Congressional Record.
Mrs. Healey. Again I would say, Congressman, that I would be
very glad to discuss that with you as one citizen to another. I can-
not, will not, yield to what my conscience dictates to answer any
questions before this committee.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, since you have asked that ques-
tion, I desire to offer in evidence and ask that it be marked "Healey
Exhibit No. 1" these two paragraphs from the June 19, 1957, issue
of the Los Angeles Herald-Express :
Most outspoken was Mrs. Dorothy Healey Connelly, Southern California
District chairman of the Communist Party.
"This decision will mark a rejuvenation of the party in America," she said.
"We have lost some members in the last few years, but now we are on our way
again."
The Chairman. It will be admitted for what it is worth.
(Document marked "Healey Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Do you deny making the statement attributed to
you in the Los Angeles paper which I have just read ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Healey. I neither deny nor affirm the statement, Mr. Taven-
ner.
Mr. Tavenner, Were you a delegate to the 16th National Conven-
tion of the Communist Party held in New York beginning February
9, 1957?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the grounds specifically stated.
Mr, Tavenner. Did you participate in any manner in that conven-
tion as a member of the Foster faction of the Communist Party or of
the so-called revisionists group led by John Gates?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the resolutions committee of
that convention ?
Mrs. Healey. The same answer.
(Mr. Margolis confers with the witness.)
Mr. Tavenner. A motion was quashed in the resolutions committee
condemning the Soviet assault on Jewish culture. Was this action
taken pursuant to a directive from Moscow to come to the defense of
the Soviet Union ?
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Healey. In addition to the previous grounds stated, I decline
to answer the question on the further ground that pursuant to the an-
nounced purpose of the committee's inquiry here in southern Califor-
nia, the questions, the last series of questions, certainly have nothing
to do with the announced purpose given by Congressman Walter in
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 23
opening the hearing ; and I therefore decline to answer on this as well
as the previously stated grounds.
The Chairman. Now, just a moment. In the light of the bupreme
Court decision that you have talked about with such obvious pleasure,
you cannot invoke the fifth amendment because even if you were active
in the Communist Party, still that is not a crime according to you.
So, how could you be prosecuted for a criminal offense?
Mrs. Healey. Except, as I pointed out to you previously, Congress-
man, my experiences already, and they are very bitter experiences,
where I had to be separated at that time from an 8-year-old boy for
some 6 months in jail pending vindication that I knew would come.
Kegardless of the fact that the activities of the Communist Party are
k'gally protected, one can be tied into an unnamed conspiracy com-
pletely without one's knowledge.
While I certainly have no fear again of conviction, I have good
grounds to be very concerned with continued persecution.
The Chairman. I assure you that we are not persecuting anyone.
Mrs. Healey, Well, I have some question of that inasmuch as al-
ready as a result of this committee's serving subpenas on people at
their places of employment, I know of already two people who already
lost their jobs.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. You stated that what occurred at the national con-
vention of the Communist Party does not affect matters in California.
For that reason you consider it is beyond the purpose of this hearing
to go into those matters. Do you mean to contend that the action of
the national convention of the Communist Party does not affect Com-
munist Party activities in southern California ?
Mrs. Healey. I have already stated to you, Mr. Tavenner, that
I w^ould be very pleased, delighted
Mr, Tavenner. Just answer my question.
Mrs. Healey. Gratified to answer all questions regarding the Com-
munist Party or any other political party activities.
Mr. Tavenner. You are not answering my questions.
Mrs. Healey. Outside the framework of this commmittee.
Mr. Tavenner. You are evading.
Mrs. Healey. I am not evading. I wall not answer any question
in regard to political activities of any party or any individual while
the committee is in official session because to do so is to yield to the
\'alidity of this committee which I do not yield to and which I
challenge.
Mr. Tavenner. Then that is the reason ?
Mrs. Healey. I therefore decline to answer on the grounds I f)re-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. That is the real reason of your refusal ?
Mrs. Healey. I would further go on to say that Congressman
Walter announced very specifically — although I would still consider
the announced purposes to be illegal and unconstitutional — never-
theless, even within the framework of what he has announced, I would
say that the questions have nothing to do, are not pertinent to the
legislative questions which Congressman AV alter said this committee
was interested in trying to gather further infonnation on.
24 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
The Chairman. Mrs. Healey, as I undei-stand you, you feel that
the Supreme Court held that Communist Party activity is political
activity in the sense that we know it in respect to other political
parties ?
Mrs. Healey. '\'\niat I am saying in my understandmg of the Su-
preme Court decision was that the Communist Party's activities, such
as within that ground of activity and in tiie realm of ideas, are pro-
tected by the first amendment.
The Chairman. Because it is a political party ?
Mi"s. Healey. I didn't — I am only saying wliat I understand it to
be.
The Chairman. Yes.
Mrs. Healey. It is my opinion that the Commimist Party is a
legal political party. I cannot read the Supreme Court's mind. That
is not in their statement. The Supreme Court mei-ely stated that
activities, as such, are protected. I would differentiate between my
own opinion that the Communist Party is a legal political party and
the Supreme Court's because it would not do me to speak for any
other body. I can only speak from my own understanding.
Ml*. Tavenner. You liave taken a position, have you not, in south-
ern California, in protection of the minority group in southern Cal-
ifornia, particularly the Jewish group ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds,
Mr, Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you whether or not the action you have
taken was influenced or limited in any way by the following:
I find from the February 25, 1957, issue of the Xew Leader in an
article written by Walter K. Lewis, entitled, "U.S. Communists Con-
vene," this paragraph :
The real key to the political tone of the convention lay in a seemingly small
incident which was never reported to the daily press. Delegates close to the
Morning Freiheit, Yiddish-language edition of the Daily Worker, introduced a
motion to condemn the Soviet assault on Jewish culture (which included the
liquidation of scores of Jewish writers as well as Jewish institutions). In the
interest of "Party unity" the motion was quashed in the resolutions committee.
Since the same consideration had led U.S. Communists to applaud the worst
horrors of the Stalin era, it is difficult to see any significant change in the
Party's essence
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner (continuing reading) :
as a result of the 16th convention.
Did you participate in the convention in any manner in opposition
to the action of the committee quasliing that resolution?
Mrs. Healey. You know, Mr. Tavenner, the very type of question
you are asl^ing in regard to the question of the conventions of a politi-
cal party, regardless of your opinion of that political party, only
confirms Congressman Hinshaw's warning in regard to the passage
I would say at that time of the Smith Act but really much more
pertinent to the activities of this committee when he in his very
eminent, thoi'oughly conservative Congress stood up and turned to the
Republicans in the Congress and told them that if they tolerated this
type of legislation it could be only a matter of time until it was used
ao;ainst them.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 25
Now, the fact remains that when this committee inquires into con-
ventions or political activities it should not take too much imagination
to know that if you were allowed to do this, if citizens either co-
operated or if it was upheld through due process, that it could be con-
ceivably merely a matter of time until it was your activities which
Mere being inquired into, into Democratic Party convention or Re-
})ublican Party convention, depending upon which party was in and
V. hich party was out. Therefore, to protect our political parties, I
decline to answer these questions, all political activities, I decline to
answer these questions on the previously stated grounds.
The CiiAiRMAX. Of course, the big difference is that when my party
meets and we are drafting a platform, and we are adopting resolu-
tions, as a member of the committee, I have to fight to get in the room
because of the press, pliotographers, and what not. We are very
iiappy to have people present wlien we are preparing our platform.
That is why I cannot understand why, if you contend that you are
a member of a political party, it is none of our business what happens
in the proceedings of tliat party.
Mrs. Healey. Well, I would say two things in answer to that. Con-
gressman, if I may.
The first is that from the reading of the press of the convention
about which Mr. Tavenner was so concerned, it was clear that the
press was there at the press conference ; and secondly, that there were
a whole number of eminent visitors who had been invited to attend the
convention.
But secondly, I would also say, Congressman, that if it meant your
job that you were to be on that platform committee to exercise your
American right to participate in the political drafting of a platform,
you might not be so anxious to guarantee the right of a committee
to inquire into it. If your party were being persecuted as the Com-
munist Party had been persecuted, as members of the Communist
Party have been persecuted, I doubt very much whether you would
be so zealous in ansvrering or wanting to answer questions in regard
to political activities. But that is v>-hy I have told you I am very
proud of all the activities in which T have engaged.
The Chaikman. If you are proud of them why do you not talk
about them?
Mrs. Healey. Because I do not believe that answering these ques-
tions can in any way serve the interests of my fellow Americans. I
think our forefathers were very sensible. I think they went on the
basis of the best of the thinking of the whole world's philosophies
when they drafted the Constitution.
The Chairman. That was before there was a power trying to —
that's beside the point.
Mrs. IIealey. It really wasn't before there was a power because a
reading of the history of that persecution at that time shows the
whole country was in concern over the French conspiracy, over the
fact that the French were trying to foment rebellion in this country.
It was Thomas Jefferson, and I am sure you remember (his, Avho had
to lead a more courageous and valiant fight.
The Chairman. Let us not go way off. Tliat is very interesting —
about which we all know a great deal.
Go ahead, Mr. Tavenner.
2G COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. What I am getting at is to what extent was the
convention, to your knowledge, inflnenced in its action by the Soviet
Union ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on all the gronnds previously
stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at that convention oppose any interest of
the Soviet Union ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated
although I think by this time in jnst a reading of the testimony be-
fore this committee, including those of ex-Communists who so glady
testified in order to save their jobs, would indicate that all this non-
sense that informers have given you, professional informers have
given you, in regard to the dictation of Moscow to any political party,
et cetera, any such nonsense
Tlie Chairman. Where do you get the idea that anyone was an
informer ?
Mrs. Healey. Where do I get the idea ? From the reading of the
transcripts of this committee. But I M'ould say that as is true his-
torically again throughout the centuries of informers, the testimony
of informers. Congressman, and I am sure you Avill agree with me, is
of very little value in terms of its honesty or its truthfulness.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, since you have raised the question of the influ-
ence and direction of the Communist Party of the United States
^y —
Mrs. Healey. I didn't raise any such question.
Mr. Tavt.nner. By the Soviet ITnion
Mrs. Healey. I volunteered nothing.
Mr. Tavenner. You volunteered a rebuttal of that before any ques-
tion was asked regarding it. So I want to ask you wliat methods
were used, if any, to your knowledge, either before or soon after the
holding of the Sixteenth National Convention which indicated the
Soviet desire and intention to whip the membership into line back of
of tlie Foster faction and in opposition to the so-called revisionists
led by John Gates ?
Mrs. Healey. I told you tliat a reading of the testimony before this
committee, and I spent some time in reading it because I have never
appeared before the committee and I wanted to acquaint myself witli
the procedures, with what convinced me that this is all a lot of poppy-
cock that this committee has been propagating for many years.
Mr. Tavenner. Just answer the questions.
Mrs. Healey. As far as the question you are asking me, I decline
to answer on all the grounds previously stated.
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Ta\tenner. You are not frank with this connuittee. You are
charging in general terms that from tlie committee's evidence there is
no such thing existing, but when you are asked regarding your knowl-
edge of the problem you refuse to answer.
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Healey. I would think by this time I have made myself clear.
Ijet me then repeat it in order to have the weight of emphasis on it,
and I will answer no such questions of this kind before this commit-
tee because to answer those questions is to yield to this committee the
i-ia'httoaskthem.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 27
I challenge the right of this committee to ask any questions. It is a
forbidden area as far as the Congress of tlie United States is con-
cerned to inquire into these questions. It is protected by the first
amendment. I, for one, will not yield what thousands and millions
of Americans over the centuries have fought for in order to provide
information, a momentary excursion into forbidden area by this
committee.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I offer in evidence a thermoflax
copy of an article by Harry Schwartz, appearing in tlie February 4,
1957, issue of the New York Times, and ask that it be marked "Healey
Exhibit No. 2."
(Document marked "Healey Exhibit No. 2" and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. I will read excerpts from it as the basis for several
questions.
The heading of the article is: '"Soviet Backs Foster's Faction,
Attacks Eight- Wing U.S. Keds."
The Soviet Communist party made unmistakably clear yesterday that it
favored victory for William Z. Foster's faction at the United States Communi.st
party "national convention," which opens here Saturday.
In language similar to that employed by Mr. Foster in an article published
last October, the Moscow newspaper Sovetskaya Rossiya attacked "right-wing
elements" among American Communists and singled out for particular criticism
Joseph Clark, foreign editor of the Daily Worker here.
As reported by the United press, the Soviet newspaper linked Secretary
of State John Foster Dulles and rightwing Communists here as advocates of
a "national communism" that would "divide and conquer" the Communist
world.
Further down in the article appears the title ;
Third Outburst From Soviet :
Yesterday's attack was the third recent indication of Moscow displeasure — —
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner (reading) :
with some groups of American Communists, particularly those associated with
the Daily Worker. The two earlier indications had been an attack on the
Daily Worker's editorial disapproval of the Soviet military intervention in
Hungary last November, and a short, but bitter, onslaught on "Rightists"
among American Communists by the Soviet Communist party magazine, Par-
tinaya Zhizn.
There has been much speculation recently that the rightwing elements among
American Communists, whose leader is generally taken to be .John Gates, editor
and chief of the Daily Worker, were weakening under the pressure of Moscow's
displeasure. One sign so interpreted by some observers was the decision of the
New York State Communists, w'here rightwing elements are particularly strong,
a week ago not to press for immediate conversion of the Communist party into a
Communist political education association.
Since yesterday's Moscow attack came after the concessions made by the
rightwing at the New York meeting, the inference would seem indicated that
the Soviet leaders were still unsatisfied and demanded both the victory of
Mr. Foster's group and the serious rewriting of the draft resolution.
Do you not agree that is an effort made by the Soviet Union 1o
dictate to the Communist Party of the United States ?
Mr. Margolis. Is the question finished ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Healey. You know. I am rather curious about one thing, Mr.
Tavenner. I have, I think, made reasonably clear to the committee
38253—59— pt. 1 2
28 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
that I would consider any testimony before this committee a violation
of principle, would yield to the pressures that would grant the right
of the committee to inquire into these questions. I have no question
that the cost of these hearings must be enormous. I am a taxpayer
and I pay enormous taxes, and I am wondering
Mr. Tavenner. You are deliberately evading my questions.
Mrs. Healey. When you know that I am not going to answer, I am
not going to answer this or any other question, including your ques-
tion which simply asks for my opinions on the grounds previously
stated. On this question, I simply decline to answer on the grounds
my opinion has no validity to this committee. What I think or do
not think, what I agree or do not agree with what a newsj^aperman
writes in a story really has very little relevancy or pertinency to
this committee.
The Chairman. Does that purport to be a correct account of what
happened at the convention ?
Mr. Tavenner. What I read — at the convention? Yes.
Mrs. Healet. Mr. Tavenner simply asked me whether I agree with
whoever wrote that.
Mr. Tavenner. It is not an account of what occurred at the con-
vention, but it was an account of articles, or attem])ts, at least three
attempts, made by the Soviet Union to make known to the Communist
Party of this country what action it should take at its convention
which was to be held on the following Saturday.
The Chairman. Did you attend that convention ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer that question, Congressman, on
the grounds previously stated. I would add further, again, however,
my offer to this committee or to any other group of interested citizens
in these United States, that I will under oath answer all ([uostions in
regard to political activities of my own, all that I am aware of, with-
out reservation or hesitation, but I will not do so in this committee,
before this committee.
Mr. Tavenner. This statement has l)een made at least four times in
the record.
The Chairman. We understand.
Mrs. Healey. You ought to take up the statement sometime, then.
The Chairman. We understand your position.
Mrs. Healey. If you are really concerned and interested.
The Chairman. Never mind.
Mrs. PIealey. On the political activities of the party, then you
ought to sometime take up the offer to do so.
Sir. Tavenner. The committee has learned a great deal regarding
the Communist methods used in handing down directives to the Amer-
ican Communist Party, one clear illustration being that of the Duclos
letter which resulted in the ouster of Browder in 1945 and the so-
called reconstitution of the Communist Party. Is this not just an-
other illustration of that same tactic?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tav-enner. Did you submit to the pressures from Moscow and
lend your support to the Foster faction as advised by Moscow ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. What effect did these directives have on other dele-
gates to the convention ?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 29
I notice you arc very much amused, but I wish you would pay
attention to the questions and try to answer.
Mrs. Healey. I am paying close attention. I am feeling an even
greater degree of both insult and resentment of what I consider to be
Avanton waste of taxpayers' money at a continuation of asking these
questions when I have so clearly made known to you that I am not
going to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question ?
Mrs. Healey. I cannot answer for other people. I would say that
I all my life have been my own boss and I continue, on what I will
think, on what I did, that is regardless of what pressures may come
from the U.S. Government, it may come from the Department of Jus-
tice o]- tlie FBI or from any other source determining my conduct, I
determine my conduct as my conscience dictates.
Mr. Tavenner. Then you did not yield to the pressures of Moscow ?
Mrs. Healey. I have already answered that question.
Mr. Tavenner. You have not.
Mrs. Healey. I have answered that question within my understand-
ing of the question.
Mr. Tavenner. Does your answer mean to impart the idea that
you did not submit to the pressures from Moscow ?
Mrs. Healey. I have submitted to no pressures or yield to no pres-
sures from any source at any time.
Mr. Tavenner. Including Moscow ?
Mrs. Healey, You have asked the question. I have answered it.
The Chairman. Will you answer the question ?
Mrs. HexVley. Including Moscow, sir.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Taa^nner. Did you support the Foster faction, or the so-
called revisionists faction at that convention ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you later change your support and attack the
Foster faction ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I offer in evidence an article over the name of
T. Timofeyev, appearing on page 104 of the March 1957 issue
of International Affairs published in Moscow and ask that it be
marked "Healey Exhibit No. 3,"
The Chairman. Yes, it will be.
(Document marked "Healey Exliibit No. 3" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Referring to the national convention of the Com-
munist Party in New York in February of 1957, the writer states in
part:
An overwhelming majority voted against the idea of turning the Communist
Party into a "political or educational association" and called for the strength-
ening and consolidation of the Communist Party of the United States.
The convention reaffirmed its loyalty to the principles of proletarion inter-
nationalism. This point was made in the main reports and delegates' speeches
and also in the resolutions, in one of which the convention reemphasized the
American Party's loyalty to the "great principle of proletaiian international-
ism." The preamble to the new party rules adopted at the convention upholds
the cardinal principle that their common interests are the link uniting the work-
ers of all countries.
30 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Then I desire to read the final paragraph :
Pursuing a policy based on tested Marxist-Leninist principles, and applying
the great teachings of Marxism-Leninism to U.S. conditions, the American
Communist Party will be able to utilize all the possibilities which exist for
stepping up the struggle for the vital interests of the working class and the entire
American people for peace, democratic freedoms, and social progress.
Now, this is the statement from Moscow after the convention was
held. Do you not agree that it places the stamp of Moscow's approval
on basic subservience of the party in the United States to international
connnunism ?
Mrs. Heat.f.y. Would you read the question ?
(Record read.)
(The witness confers witli lier counseh)
Mrs. Healky. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you take any action at tlie convention in re-
affirming loyalty to the principles of proletarian internationalism?
Mrs. Healey. The same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I refer you now to the closing paragraph which I
have read, alluding to the utilization of all possibilities which exist for
stepping up the struggle for peace, democratic freedoms and social
progress, and ask you to state how the struggle mentioned is to be
waged.
Mrs. Healey. By whom ?
Mr. Tavenner. By the Communists.
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. "We find running through Commmiist Party litera-
lure, like a tliread through a garment, the term referred to here in
Moscow of "peace, democratic freedoms, and social progress."
Mrs. Healey. You will also find it in all the speeches and writings
of our forefathers, Mr. Tavenner.
Ml-. Tavenner. What is the Connvninist meaning of tliose terms?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that John Gates stated that he came into
the Communist Party for tlie purpose of waging a fight for peace,
democracy, and socialism, that on disbandment of the Daily Worker
we find in the last issue lieadlines, "We will be back, fighting for
peace, democracy, and socialism."
We find John Gates, after he has left the party, saying he proposed
to continue the fight for peace, democracy, and socialism. What
kind of Communist jargon is this which permits the use of those
terms both within and without the Communist Party ?
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Healey. Life would probably l)e much easier for both investi-
gating committee as well as for the ordinary citizen if words were
allowed to mean what words say. The fact that I decline to answer
these questions does not mean that I am accepting your assumption
as to what the words mean or that they are jargon or any other rather
colorfnl adjectives which you use to describe them. But I do decline
to answer this (juestion us well.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, you see, (he committee has found so many
instances in which words used in their normal application have an
entirely dill'erent meaning in the Conmiunist Party. I am trying
to get your ans^^■er as to the Conununist Party meaning of these
words.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 31
Mrs. Healey. There may l)e some validity in what, you say insofar
as this is concerned. I liave found in readin^^ all of these transcripts
that I read while I was on my vacation of the people who appeared
on this committee and then the committee's statement afterwards that
the committee has its own peculiar knack of not only making these
assumptions but making them with a certain solenm declaration as
if they are perforce what you say is true in terms of the misreading,
it seems to me, of what is implied in anybody's statement.
I would, however, decline to answer tliis or any other question you
ask in regard to tliese questions.
Mr. Tavennek. You have had considerable experience, have you
not, with those who have recently withdrawn from the Comnuinist
Party ?
Mrs. He/VLey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state whether or not those who have with-
drawn have indicated to you an intention to continue the fight for
peace, democracy, and socialism ?
Mrs. Healey. Well, I would come back to an earlier answer I gave
you on this question, Mr. Tavenner, and that is tliat I again state
that it is clear from the line of questions you are asking that the state-
ment of the purposes that (yongressman Walter gave in opening the
iiearing, and I would still challenge the legality of that statement,
that it is clear, however, that these questions have absolutely no perti-
nency to any possible legislation that the Congress of the United
States could produce.
Mr. Tavenner. You refuse to answer?
Mrs. Healey. And I decline to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. After all is said and done, doesn't it mean that the
objectives of the Foster group in the Communist Party and the
objectives of the so-called revisionists, with whom, our information
is, tliat you liave had some experience, is just the same except one is
within the party and the other is without the party, organizationally
speaking ?
Mrs. Healey. I just truthfully do not understand your question.
Mr. Tavenner. Eead the question.
(Record read.)
Mrs. Healey. I heard the question. I simply do not understand its
intent. I don't know what you mean.
The Chairman. Reframe your question.
Mrs. Healey. That one is within the Communist Party and tlie
other is without the Communist Party. I just don't know what you
are referring to.
Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you to reduce the question to a very
simple form, whether or not the objective purposes of the Foster gi-oup
within the Communist Party are the same as those who liave pur-
l)ortedly left the Communist Party although they may not now be
inembei-s of the same group.
Mrs. Healey. Well, in addition to all of the grounds previously
stated, when you ask me to give my opinion as to other people's miuds,
what is in their minds, is really going far afield. Certainly I can
see no pertinency or relevancy to the question.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me correct that. I am not asking you what is
in their minds. I prefaced my question by the statement that ac-
32 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
cording to our infonnatioii j'oii have had considerable experience
with the so-called revisionists who have left the Communist Party.
I am asking you to base your answer on your Imowledge of their
representations to you.
Mrs. Healet. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. John Gates, in the November 1956 issue of Politi-
cal Affairs, in commenting upon those who left the party, states :
I do not think that Starobin and those like him are lost to the cause of
socialism, but will continue to contribute to it in their own way and I believe
that in the end we will be reunited.
Do you anticipate that the revisionists group will return to active
participation within the organization of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Healey. Do I understand, Mr. Tavenner, you are now inves-
tigating the question of the ideas and the activities of those who gen-
erally believe in socialism ?
Mr. Ta'stsnner. No, I am asking you regarding plans of the Com-
munist Party and those who apparently retain the same objectives.
Mr. Margolis. Plans?
Mr. Tavenner. Plans.
Mr. Margolis. I think that is inconsistent witli the question you
asked.
Mr. Tavenner. No.
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Margolis. I suggest we read back tlie record.
The Chairman. Read the question.
(Record read.)
Mr. Tavenner. Now, answer the question.
Mrs. Healey. I don't quite understand. You talk about the antic-
ipation of plans. Am I understanding you correctly ?
Mr. Tavenner. The question is plain enough.
Do you anticipate that the revisionist group
Mrs. Healey. Do I anticipate that people are planning to return to
the Communist Party ?
Mr. Tavenner. You could not very well know about it unless there
was some indication to you of an intention or plan to do it.
The Chairman. Has there been any indication that you know?
Put it that way.
jNIrs. Healey. I, of course, decline to answer the. question on the
grounds previously stated, although I would again repeat that it is
clear that the line of questioning goes further afield as the hearing
continues in terms of pertinency to any legislation.
Mr. Tavenner. Hasn't the Communist Party made as one of its
foremost objectives an effort to establish close alliance with the so-
called revisionists who haA-e left the party and to bring tliem back into
the party, organizationally speaking?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Ta\tenner. Returning now to the subject of directives fi-om
Moscow, is it not true that the French Communist, Jacques Duclos,
once again addressed a letter to the Communist Party of tlie United
States while the convention was in process or immediately prior
thereto, in which he stressed the leading role of the Soviet Coinmunist
T^artyj
(Witness confers with her counsel. )
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 33
Mrs. Healey. The reading of the press coverage of that convention
would indicate that the letter that you were referring to from Jacques
Duclos w^as rejected and Mr. Duclos, I understand from reading the
press, was told that the American Communists would determine their
own policies of the American Communists.
Mr. Ta\T3NNEr. What were the contents of that letter ?
Mrs. Healey. My memory from tlie press is too scattered to re-
member.
Mr. Tavenxer. Did yon h'arn of its existence otlior tlian throiigli
the press ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer the (Question on the groimds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavennkk. Weren't you on hand and didn't you, as a member
of the national committee, receive that letter?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the grounds previously staled.
Mr. Tavenner. You admit, then, that this is at least one instance
in wliicb tlie foreign Connnunist Party, the international party, en-
deavored to influence the members of your convention ?
Mrs. Healey. Your assumptions are your own, Mr. Taxenner. I
do not accept your assmnptions on this or any other questions that yon
have raised, and my declining to answer should not be misunderstood
that I am accepting the assumptions that are explicit in your question?.
Mr. Tavenner, Did Steve Nelson, head of the Pittsburgh Commu-
nists, at a predawn meeting of February 12, 1957, bring together the
opposing leaders of the Communist Party and arrange the composi-
tion of a caretaker's committee for the party?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer the question on the grounds })re-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. As a matter of fact, the main issues in the party
were not settled at that convention, were they?
Mrs. Healey. Well, I don't what your interpretation is, what you
are asking would call for, but I decline to answer the question anyway.
Mr. Tavenner. Let us drop that subject for the moment. I will
return to it later.
Is it not true that the November 1957 declaration of the 12 Com-
munist parties entered into in Moscow was another method used by
Moscow to support the Foster faction in its traditional stand on
internationalism ?
(Witnesses confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Healey. I would suggest you call either somebody from the
Soviet Union or China or Poland or one of the 12 representatives
of the 12 parties participating and ask them.
Mr. Tavenner. As a member of the national committee and a very
intelligent person, I am certain you would have no difficulty answer-
ing these questions if you desire to.
Mrs. Healey. I have already stated, sir, that I will be happy to
answer these and all other questions before any group of interested
people. For 30 years I have been looking for people, searching for
people, to listen to what I think. I would be delighted to have a
forum to answer this or any other question. I will not do so befoie
a committee whose very existence chnllonges tlie Constitution nnd ilu^
Hill of Rights.
34 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer in evidence a copy of a newspaper
account of the meeting in Moscow, November 1957, of Communist
Party leaders of the 12 nations in which Yugoslavia refused to join,
and ask that it be marked "Exhibit No. 4.''
The Chairman. So ordered.
(Document marked "Healey Exhibit No. 4" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
The Chairman. Did you attend this meetino; with Steve Nelson
and others that Mr. Tavenner just asked you about?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer the question on tlie grounds pre-
viously stated. I will be glad to answer the questions outside of this
hearing room under oath.
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. Would you agree that the burden of the declara-
tion from Moscow is an affirmation of the leadership of Moscow in
world communism and the pointing up of the necessity of figliting
revisionism?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tamsnner. According to Political Affairs issue of January
1958, the National Executive Committee, CPUSA, at a meeting helH
December 22, 1957, issued quite a lukewarm statement regarding the
12-Party Declaration of allegiance to Moscow.
Did you participate in the deliberations of that meeting?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I offer and ask that it be marked "Healey Exhibit
No. 5," a copy of the article by the National Executive Committee,
(^PUSA, appearing in the January 1958 issue of Political Affairs.
The Chairman. It will be made a part of the record.
(Document marked "Healey Exhibit No. 5" and retained in commit-
tee files.)
jNIr. Tavenner. I have before me a copy of another statement made
]>y the National Executive Committee, CPUSA, entitled, "On The
Peace Manifesto and the 12-Party Declaration" and appearing in the
June 1958 issue of Political Affairs. I desire to offer it in evidence
and ask that it be marked "Healey Exhibit No. 6."
The Chairman. May I see it, please?
Let it be made a part of the record.
(Document marked "Healey Exhibit No. 6" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. This statement is not a lukewarm endorsement of
(he 12
The Chairman. Before you go into tliat, this is by the national
executive committee?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Are you a member of the national executive com-
mittee?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. I may state for the record, Mr. Chairman, that she
is not a member, although the committee has information that she
is a member of the National Committee of the Communist Party.
The Chairman. And the difference ?
Mr. Tavenner. One is the executive ('ommittce ol" the national
rnnimittee.
(^^Qtness confers with her counsel.)
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 35
Mr. Tavf.nxer. As T -svas start iiitr to say, this June 1958 statement
by the national executive committee is not merely a lukewarm en-
dorsement, it is a welcominfi: of the action taken by the Moscoav
12 Party dex^larations. It welcomes it in tliis language. It welcomes
It "as renewed evidence of the great contribution to world peace and
social progress" and said that the American Communists must truly
study and systematically discuss it.
Now I would like to ask you this question : It appears from our study
of these two separate actions that in the tirst one that was taken, that
is, the lukewarm endorsement, that the motion was voted for, or in
favor of, by John Gates and his friend and it was opposed by William
Z. Foster, Eugene Dennis, Benjamin Davis, James E. Jackson, and
Bob Thompson.
Can you explain that to the committee?
Mrs. Healey. Can I explain the action of the voting of other
people ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Explain why the Jolm Gates faction en-
dorsed this lukewarm reception of the declaration whereas Foster and
his group voted against it.
Mrs. Healey. I would answer that on the same grounds previously
stated
Mr. Tavenner. In other woixls, you ref\ise to answer?
Mrs. Healey. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. What change came about which enabled the Na-
tional Executive Conunittee to change its attitude and give it a warm
welcome ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. TA^T.NNER. Isn't it because after the adjournment of the con-
vention, with the aid and assistance of Moscow, Foster had become
firmly seated in the saddle in the organization of the Communist
Party in the United States?
Mrs. PIealey. I decline to answer on these same grounds.
Mr. Ta\-enner. While these factional fights were progressing on the
national level, what organizational change was nuule in the Communist
Party in California ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the groimds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it true that at the California State Convention of
the Communist Party held on January 19-20, 1957, action was taken
to establisli the Communist Party of California in the form of two
districts, the Southern California Disti'iet and the Northern Cali-
fornia District?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you define the geographic boundaries of the
two new districts?
Mrs. Healp:y. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Is not the boundary between the two this: that the
area north of Santa Barbara and Kern (^ounties is the northern dis-
trict ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. And that the States of Arizoiui and Nevada bound
both districts on the east ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Ta\hnner. And Mexico on the south?
36 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mrs. IIkalet. Saiiie answer.
Mr. Tavennek. Isn't it true that yon are chairman of the newly
created Southern California District at this time?
Mrs. IIealey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavennkr. Does not your organizatioii call for the establish-
ment of a district council composed of 62 members ?
Mrs. Healet. Same answer.
Mr, Tavenner. And from this district council of 62 members, is
there not a district executive hoard patterned after the executive
committee of the national organization composed of 10 members?
Mrs. Healet. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you not the cliairman of this executive board?
Mrs. Healet. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was one Don Wheeldin a member of this executive
board of the district council prior to March 26, 1958?
Mrs. Healet. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Is yours or is the Southern California District di-
vided into 28 sections ? Am I wrong about that ?
Mrs. Healet. Same answer,
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. Did Don Wheeldin resign from the Communist
Party on March 26, 1958?
Mrs, Healet, Same answer.
Mr, Tavenner, According to our information, that would leave
nine presently on the executive board of the district council. Is
Horace V. Alexander a member of that executive board ?
Mrs. Healet. Same answer,
Mr. Tavenner. Is Thomas Creed a member ?
Mrs. Healet. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Is Cornelius Crowe a member ?
Mrs. Healet. Same answer.
Mv. Tavenner. Is Ben Dobbs a member ?
Mrs. Healet. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Is James Frederick Forest a member ?
Mrs. Healet. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner, Is Bernard Lusher a member ?
Mrs, Healet. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Is Charlene Mitchell a member ?
Mrs. Healet. Same answer,
Mr. Tavenner, Is Nemmy Sparks a member ?
Mrs, Healet, Same answer.
Mr, Tavenner, Will you state whether or not it is contem])lated,
as far as you may have any control over the matter, that William
Taylor, formerly of Washington, D,C., is slated to become a member
of the executive board at your next meeting, wliich I believe is in
October?
Mrs, Healet. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. When is the next meeting ?
Mrs. Healet. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this would be a good time for a
5-minute break.
The Chairman. We will have a recess of 5 minutes.
(Members present : Representatives Walter and Tuck.)
(Short recess.)
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 37
(Members present : Representatives Walter and Tuck.)
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Was an orjranizational meetiiig of the newly formed
Southern District of the Communist Party of California held in Los
Angeles on April 13 and 14, 1957 ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, T desire to offer in evidence nu-
merous papers relating to the convention, including resolutions
adopted and, in one instance, a resolution which was not voted out
by the resolutions committee.
The Chairman. These are resolutions considered at an executive
session ?
Mr. Tavenner. The one resolution I mentioned was considered at
a meeting of the resolutions committee and was not voted out, but
another resolution on the same subject was voted out.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Tavenner. I will ask the witness questions regarding that
when we arrive at it.
There is the organizational convention of the new district formed
in southern California of which our information indicates that the
witness was the chairman.
The Chairman. Was this a public meeting ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Our information is that very definite security provisions were made
regarding those who attended the meeting.
These documents are as follows :
Report to Southern California District Convention by Dorotliy
Ray Healey,
(Healey Exhibit No. 7)
(For text of document see Exhibit I of the Report on the Southern California
District of the Communist Party, H. Rept. No. 2r)9, April 3, 19.39, p. 57)
Mr. Tavenner. Trade Union Resolution, Southern California Dis-
trict Convention.
(Healey Exhibit No. 8)
(For text of document see Exhibit II of the Report on the Southern California
District of the Communist Party, H. Rept. No. 2.59, April 3, 19.59, p. 66)
Mr. Tavenner. Rules of the Convention.
(Healey Exhibit No. 9)
(For text of document see Exhibit IX of the Report on the Southern California
District of the Communist Party, H. Rept. No. 259, April 3, 1959, p. 77)
Mr. Tavenner. Resolution offered by the Constitution and Organi-
zational Committee for action by the convention.
(Healey Exhibit No. 10)
(For text of document see P^xhibit XI of the Report on the Southern California
District of the Communist Party, H. liept. No. 259, April 3, 1959, p. 82)
Mr. Tavenner. Copy of a letter dated April 12, 1957, from the
People's World, Ivos Angeles staff' to the delegates to the convention.
38 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
(Healey Exhibit No. 11)
(For text of document see Exhibit VII of the Report on the Southern California
District of the Communist Party, H. Rept. No. 259, April 3, 1959, p. 75)
Mr. Taa^nner. Kesolution on a Negro-Labor Alliance.
(Healey Exhibit No. 12)
(For text of document see Exhibit III of the Report on the Southern California
District of the Communist Party. H. Rept. No. 259, April 3, 1959, p. 69)
Mr. Tavenner. An excerpt from the California Eagle, a publica-
tion bearing date, April 11 (1957), relating to a joint mass pilgrimage
to Washington of 100,000 people set for May 17.
(Document marked "Healey Exhibit No. 18" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. TA^^:lsrNER. A Resolution by Subcommittee on Mexican Work.
I hand this document to the witness and ask whether or not this reso-
lution was killed in the subcommittee.
(Document marked "Healey Exhibit No. 14" and retained in coui-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. And was not voted out.
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Ml'. Tavenner. A Resolution on Mexican Work.
(Healey Exhibit No. 15)
(For text of document see Exhibit IV of the Report on the Southern California
District of the Comnmnist Party. H. Rept. No. 259. April 3, 19.5!), p. 70)
The Chairman. The first resolution you showed was a resolution
that was proposed and rejected?
Mr. Tavenner. And, according to our information, rejected.
The CiiAiRM.\N. Was this a resolution offered by the witness?
Mr. Tavenner. No.
The Chairman. What connection did she have with it?
Mr. Tavenner. She was chairman of the meeting and had filed
a report on the subject of JNIexican matters as Avell as all of these
other I'esolutions.
The (yHATRMAN. Were all these furnished you by the witness?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir; slie has not furnished them.
The Chairman. How many people attended this meeting?
Ml'. Tavenner. I would like to ask the witness how nuiny were in
attendance at this meeting.
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Didn't 125 attend the first day and 140-odd the
second day?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on tlie same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. The Jewish People in the United States.
(Healey Exhibit No. 16)
( For text of document see Exhibit V of the Report on the Southern California
District of the C(Hiinmnist Party. II. Rept. No. 259, April 3, 1959, p. 71 )
Mr. Tavenner. A Resolution on the People's World.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 39
(Healey Exhibit No. 17)
(For text document see Exhibit VI of the Report on the Southern California
District of the Communist Party, H. Rept. Xo. 259, April 3, 1959, p. 74)
Mr. Tavenner. A reprint from the April 9, 1957, Daily Worker
relating to the text of the Harry Bridges letter to George Meany.
(Document marked "Healey Exhibit No. 18'' and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Constitution of the Communist Party, U.S.A.
(adopted by the 16th National Convention, February 9-12, 1957).
(Document marked "Healey Exhibit No. 19" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Keport of the Constitution and Organization Com-
mittee.
(Healey Exhibit No. 20)
(For text of document see Exhibit X of the Report on the Southern California
District of the Communist Party, H. Rept. Xo. 259, April 3, 1959, p. 78)
Mr. Tavenner. Communist Party Convention, an editorial.
(Document marked "Healey Exhibit No. 21" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. It appears from your report to the convention,
Healey Exhibit No. 7, that one of the specific programs assigned to the
Southern California Conununists is the formation of an antimonopoly
coalition. Is this the latest expression of the Communist Party in its
struggle to destroy free enterprise in the United States ?
Mrs. Healey. This — is that subversive to be against monopolies in
the United States, Mr. Tavenner?
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question?
Mrs. Healey. I do not think it is pertinent to the inquiry, legislative
inquiry, that the Congressman announced as the purpose of this com-
mittee.
Mr. Tavenner. May I have a direction that the witness answer ?
The Chairman. You are directed to answer.
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on all the grounds previously
stated, and in addition the ground of pertinency ._
Mr. Tavenner. In your discussion of the subject of monopoly, do
you use that term in the sense of the free enterprise system in the
United States?
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. I ask you if it is not a fact that in the Communist
use of the language that you are going to struggle against monopoly,
you mean struggle against the free enterprise system of the United
States?
Mrs. Healey. I would imagine, Mr. Tavenner, that Communists use
the word "monopoly" the way all other Americans use the word
"monopoly," and that is referring to the giant trusts that have a
stranglehold on the free economy.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that the way you use it?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. It is also noted from this report, that is Healey
Exhibit 7, that the Communist Party is not satisfied with the struggle
for socialism, but that it demands participation in class and national
40 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
struggles in oi'der to convert non-Communists to revolutionary con-
sciousness. Does that mean that the Communist Party is seeking to
stir the masses into revolutionary action?
Mrs, Healey. I decline to answer the question on the grounds previ-
ously stated, the grounds being based on the 10th amendment, on the
1st amendment, the 5th amendment, and pertinency, all four being in-
cluded in all previous answers.
Mr. Tavenner. May I have a direction ?
The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. It is stated in the report that the entire Communist
Party in Southern California is called upon to concern itself with the
problems of labor so that labor can move effectively to influence the
affairs of the Nation and finally lead it.
Is that a Conununist Party expression to the eft'ect that the Com-
munist Party by this means has determined to establish the dictator-
ship of the proletariat ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. By having a Communist government?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer, although do I understand your ques-
tion that you are making synonymous a government led by labor with
what you call the dictatorship of the proletraiat?
Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you whether or not you are urging in
your report that tlie Communist Paity concern itself with labor so that
labor could finally lead the Government. I am asking you whether
or not you mean by that if that is a step in the establishment of the
dictatorship of the proletariat?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Your report also states that "The working classes
strive to fulfill the expression of ijiternationalism." I will ask you :
])o you not mean by this that as a practical matter labor must sup-
port or the masses must support the policies of the Soviet Union ?
Mrs. Healey. Before I answer the specific question, I might point
out to you, Mr, Tavenner, that I believe it was President Abraham
Lincoln who declared the strongest bond in the world is that which
unites the working people of the world. However, in regard to your
sjjecific question, in regard to the question you asked, I decline to
answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you change your views later to the extent
that you Avere a violent opponent of the execution of Nagy?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Your report makes a part of the Communist Party
program in southern California a campaign to withdraw our forces
from Europe; does it not?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Actually, the Communist Party is serving as a
willing tool for the foreign policy of the Soviet Union; isn't that
correct ?
Mrs. Healey. That is your assumption. I decline to answer the
question on the grounds previously stated; and the fact that I am
declining to answer it does not mean in any way that I agree with
your assumption.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 41
Mr. Tavenner. Does not your report demonstrate that to be the
fact — that the Communist Party of the United States is bein^ used as
a tool for the promotion of the foreign policy of the Soviet Union ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated,
although I will repeat again that as far as I am concerned and as far
as a lifetime of conscious political thinking and activity is concerned,
I have never been the tool of anyone or any country.
Mr. Tavenner. But you have echoed in this report the directions
of the National Committee of the Communist Party ; have you not ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated
although I would state again that never in my life have I said or
acted in any way other than the dictates of my own conscience.
Mr. Tavi^ner. And you are having trouble in the Communist
Party because of it ; are you not ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us how this factional fight, between
the Foster faction and the so-called revisionists on a national level,
aifected the Communist Party in the Southern District of California
of which you were and still are the chairman ?
Mrs. Healey. That is a very broad question, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, and I am giving you quite a bit of latitude to
answ^er it. How does it affect it ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline the invitation, sir. I refuse to answer on
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Let us start out by this. Did you not have many
resignations as a result of it ?
Mrs. Healey. I beg your pardon ?
Mr. TA^^NNER. Didn't you have many resignations from the South-
ern District of California as a result of these factional differences ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer ; same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't the second manifestation in the form of a
letter of grievances to the national committee signed by 22 members
of your district? Wasn't that a manifestation?
Mrs. Healey. Well, I am not responsible for your assumptions or
interpretations of any questions, but I decline to answer the question
on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Do not let us call it a manifestation. Let us call
it a fact. Is it not a fact that a letter of grievances, signed by 22
members of the Communist Party from the Los Angeles district, was
addressed to the National Committee, Communist Party U.S.A. ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre-
viously stated although what this has to do with the legislation, I am
still very much in the dark.
Mr. Ta\t.nner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer in evidence as ex-
hibit 22, a copy of a letter bearing da,te of December 14, 1957, ad-
dressed to the National Committee
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. Of the Communist Party of the United States,
signed by a number of people.
The Cffatrjian. It will be made a part of tlie record.
42 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
(Healey Exhibit No. 22)
(For text of document see Report on the Southern California District of the
Communist Party, H. Kept. No. 250, April 3, 195t), p. 19)
Mr. Tavknnkr. It is noted that this letter is signed by the full
names of some individuals; it is signed b,y the first name and middle
initial of otliers; and in some cases it is signed by merely a first name.
Will you help us, please, to identify the names of these signatories
to this letter^
* :;: * :;: * =!= *
Mr. Tavkxnkr. There ai)pears here the name of Bebe, Boyle
Heights. Does that indicate the luime of I^eatrice Goldstein of Boyle
Heights, a section of the ( 'omnninist Party ?
Mrs. Heai.ey. 1 decline to answer.
Ml'. Tavknnf.r. The name Ada, Boyle Heights. Does that indi-
cate the name of Ada Dobbs i
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavennek. Celeste, Zapata. Does that indicate the name of
Celeste Strack Kaplan, of the Zapata Section of the Communist
Party?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. The name Elizabeth, Moranda Smith. Does that
indicate that is the name of Elizabeth Kicardo Jackson, of the Mo-
randa Smith Section of the Connnunist Party ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Tliere is a second name of Elizabeth, Echo Park.
Does that indicate the name of F'Jizabeth S|)ector of the P^cho Park
Section of the ( 'ommunist Party (
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Is Elizabeth Spector the wife of Frank Spector?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Frank Carlson, Boyle Heights. Are you ac-
quainted with him?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Another name on this paper is Frank Spector,
Echo Park. Are you acquainted with Frank Spector?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Henry Steinberg, Valley 22. Does that indicate
Henry Steinberg is of the Valley 22 Section of the Communist Party?
]\Irs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Joe. Valley 22. Does that indicate the name of
Joe Gavron of the Valley 22 Section of tlie Communist Party?
Mr's. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. The name Kappy, Miscellaneous Industrial. Does
that iiulicate tlie name of Leonard referred to as Kappy Kaplan?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Of tlie Miscellaneous Industrial Section of the Com-
munist Party?
Lil C, Boyle Heights. Does that indicate Lillian Carlson of the
iioyle Heights Section of the Comu)unist Party?
j\lrs. Healey. Saino aiiswci-.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 43
Mr. Tavenner. Lois Newman, San Gabriel. Does that indicate
Lois Newman is of the San Gabriel Section of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Lou B. Building Trades. Does that indicate Louis
Baron as a member of the Building Trades Section of the Communist
Party ?
Mrs. Healet. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Mort Newman, Miscellaneous Industrial. Does
tliat indicate that he was a member of the Miscellaneous Industrial
Section of the Communist Party ?
Mi^. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Phil, Western. Does it indicate Phil llafaloAV of
the Western Division of the Communist Party '^
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner, Sid, Miscellaneous Industrial. Does that indicate
Sid London of the Miscellaneous Industrial Section of the Commu-
nist Party ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Sophie, West Adams. Does that indicate Sophie
Kislmer of the West Adams Club of the Communist Party?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
H: H< ^ >|: ^ H: H:
Mr. Tavenner. Did you paHicipate directly or indirectly in the
preparation of that letter of grievances^
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Weren't you accused by Max Steinberg at the meet-
of July 27, 1958, of the Southern (California District Council of the
(^ounnunist Party that you had a part in the preparation of the letter
of the Los Angeles 22?'
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you deny Max Steinberg's charges ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Who were its authors ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that this letter contains a recommenda-
tion that the present structure of the party be made more flexible so
that membership in the present type of party club is not necessarily
a requirement for adherence to the (Communist Party organization.
Do you recall that ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you need nie to reread that ?
Mrs. Heaeey. I wouldn't. I would decline to answer any questions
in regard to it, so that it isn't nex-essary.
Mr. Tavenner. You mean you are not listening to these questions
because you have made up j^our mind that you are not going to answer ?
Mrs. Healey. It would be impossible to avoid listening, Mr, Taven-
ner, as both of us know. Of course, I would. It is clear also that you
are just continuing in what you ^^ ill forgive me if I will say is a rathei-
willful, wasteful use of tax])ay('is'' money by continuation of a line of
((iiestions which you already know I am not going to answer.
?.S2r)3— 50— pt. 1 3
44 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. If it is the taxpayers' money, I lay the charge right
at your door for refusing to make the effort profitable.
(Counsel confers with the witness.)
Mrs. Healey. No ; I think, Mr. Tavenner, that the aggressor usually
is the one who is held responsible for the violation, not the victim. I
did not invite the committee to come here. I did not ask for a sub-
pena. I did not desire to appear.
Mr. Ta%'enner. It is well known that the Communist Party desires
to hide all of its manipulations, and we are trying to uncover some
of them.
Mrs. Healey. I have already stated, Mr. Tavenner, and let me repeat
it again, that there is nothing in my lifetime that I am trying to hide.
I will be very glad to answer all questions in regard to my own opin-
ions and my own activities, my lifetime of pursuit of democracy — and
I know you do not like the word — before any group of Americans.
I vfiW not in any way yield to the violation of the Constitution which
this committee perpetrates by its insistence on inquiring into a for-
bidden area.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall now the question that I asked you?
Mrs. Healey. You were asking me in regard to a quotation from a
document you have before you as to whether or not I remembered
something was in there.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me repeat the question.
This letter contains a recommendation — I am speaking now of the
letter of grievances written b}'^ the 22 Los Angeles members of the
Communist Party — that the present structure of the pnrty be made
more flexible so that membersliip in the present type of party club
is not necessarily a requirement for adlierence to the organization.
Does this not indicate that those withdrawing or contemplate with-
drawing from the Communist Party because of factional differences
:ire doing so in name only?
(Witness confers with her comisel.)
Mr. Tavenner. And that they are still for all essential purposes
adherents to the Communist Party organization ?
Mrs. Healey. Let me ask you, Mr. Tavenner, are you pursuing this
line of inquiry in order that you can later make a very interesting
sounding statement that the witness refused to answer some 500
questions or something? I am really curious as to why the persist-
ence in the line of inquiry.
Mr. Tavenner. May I ask that the vritness be directed to answer?
The Chairmen. The witness is directed to answer.
Mrs. Healey. I decline to an.swer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr Ta\T!:nner. Did you support that recommendation
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tamdnner. Did you have anything to do with the preparation
of that letter?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. A paragraph in this letter expresses the conviction
that all avenues must be sought for unity with forces who have left,
the party. Does this not indicate the desire on tlie part of the writers
of the letter to still remain affiliated or to secure reafRliation with the
Comnnmist Party of those \\ho liad left because of I'evisionist views,
so-called revisionist views?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 45
Mrs. IIeat.et. I will repeat again, Mr. Tavenner, that your contin-
uation in tlie line of inquiry only documents my earlier statement
fhat this is not a genuine inquiry. It is not a bona fide inquiry for
the purposes of legislation, that by hook or by crook the committee is
still attempting to find a way of evading the Supreme Court deci-
sion on the Watkins and Sweezy cases. If the committee is really
interested in investigating subversive activities, for instance on May
18, J. Edgar Hoover announced that in violation of Federal law he
was tapping 90 telephones. This is a committee in regard to the
upholding supposedly ostensibly of the laws of the United States.
The Chairman. We know what the purpose is. Certainly we have
nothing to do with the tapping of telephones.
Mrs. Healey. But it would seem to me if your concern is with the
framework of the Government that you would at least take a position
and call before this committee under subpena, Mr. Hoover to answer
for his violations of Federal law.
The Chaibman. We have nothing whatsoever to do with that type
of activity.
Mr. Tavenner. What action was taken by the National Committee
of the Communist Party on this letter of grievances ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. What action did you take ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you what purports to be a copy of "Com-
ments on the Status of the Party" by Dorothy Ray Healey. I wili
ask you to identify it as a treatise prepared by you as a result of
the letter of grievances. Will you identify its contents as a treatise
prepared by you ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer this document in evidence and ask
that it be marked "Healey Exhibit No. 23."
(Healey Exhibit No. 23)
( For text of document see Exhibit XII of the Report on the Southern California
District of the Communist Party, H. Rept. No. 259, April 3, 1959, p. S3)
Mr. Tavenner. Was this treatise handed down by you on March 9,
1958, to the 62 members of your district council for discussion on a
section level ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was this document a reversal of your position taken
previously at the April 1957 organizational meeting of your district,
on matters relating to the National Convention of the Commmiist
Party held in February 195Y ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you not charge or undertake in this document
to severely criticize the national leadership of the Communist Party
for not having fulfilled what you call the responsibilities placed on it
by the Sixteenth National Convention ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Among leaders of the Communist Party whom you
Cj'iticized in this document were Eugene Demi is, James Jackson, James
Allen, and William Z. Foster ; is that not true ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
4G COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Were you charged by Ben Davis of "T'S .^m ' as a
result of your opposition to the leadership of the Comnnnti-t l^arty?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you not by this criticism emloavr^red to set
up a type of leadership in the Southern District of C:i :. iornia to differ
in its purposes from the national leadership of the Communist Party
with you at its head ?
Mrs. HJEALEY. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Does the Communist P:^.i i y permit tliis t;, \w of oppo-
sition to its national leaders?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you not consider that i his p,< t ion on your part has
caused your days to be numbered as a membei' (I tlie National Com-
mittee of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. TA^^NNER. It is noted in this do'innent that you claim the
distinction of having your dist i ict provide leadership on such political
fronts as tlie H-bomb, Little Rock, and the South in general, and the
1958 elections? That is a quotation from your document. "V^Hiat
leadership have you furnished m each of these instances or fields?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. What means have you adopted to take part in the
H-bomb campaign ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did it include
(Counsel confers with the witness.)
Mr. Tavenner. Did it include the selection of a member of the
Communist Party to make public talks on the subject of the H-bomb
under the pretense tliat he was a scientist without revelation of the
fact that he had been a member of the Communist Party?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer, althougli are you going into the field of
inquiry, Mr. Tavenner, that opposition to the H-bomb is something
that this committee has any considered right at all that it can legislate
against?
Mr. Tavenner. I am going into the subject, as you well know, for
the reason of showing wliat the Communist Party is actually doing
here, and as far as we can ascertain, the purposes.
Mrs. Healey. But isn't this all in an area that is already very em-
phatically protected bv the first amendment and that the Supreme
Court has rebuked this committee on this in the past for going into
areas that are forbidden by the first ?
The Chairman. Go ahead, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. What means have you used to exert Communist in-
fluence at Little Kock and the South generally referred to in your
document ?
Mrs. Healey. I would urge that the most pressing thing in this
country right now is the question whicli at this point happens to be
centered around Little Rock. Again I would say that the committee
is really to fulfill its ostensible obligation and inquire into thosewho
are fornenting force and violence in Little Rock, to deprive citizens
of constitutional rights, would be in the order of the day.
Mr. Tavenner. On February 25, 1957, in the issue of the New
Leader, to which I have referred earlier, there is an article "U.S. Com-
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 47
munists Convene" by Walter K. Lewis. I will read one section of a
paragraph from that article:
The Communists directed special emphasis to the Negro question in their
declaration of principles and Carl Rachlin reported that a major effort to infil-
trate the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and the
National Urban League should be anticipated.
Plave you endeavored to carry out what is indicated to be anticipated
in that field?
Mrs. Healey. It seems to me that Ihis line of questioning, Mr.
Tavenner, particularly at this moment, is a shameful thing, when you
know as well as I know and probably even better because you are
more acquainted with the South in a personal sense than I am, the
gross attacks and violations and persecutions against Negro children
that are taking place, that you would attempt to carry out what is a
clear line of propaganda
The Chairman. Will you answ' er the question ?
Mrs. Healey. On the part of Southern supremacies by carrying on
this line of inquiry, it would seem to me to be one of the most reprehen-
sible acts of this committee in its history. Negro children are being
deprived of the rights of education.
The Chairman. Mrs. Plealey
Mrs. Healey. You know and I laiow that, and, Congressman Wal-
ter, you know it, and that you would attempt
The Chairman. Just a moment.
Mrs. Healey. To turn this terrible thing around into something
til at seeks at this point not only your purpose
The Chairman. Are you doing it ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer the question on all the grounds
previously stated before and I would repeat again the fact that I am
declining to answer in no way involves any assumption that your
questions have any relevancy or validity.
Mr. Tavenner. In what manner have you sought to use the Com-
munist influence in the 1958 elections of which you make boast in your
document ?
Mrs. Healey. It is a well-known fact, unfortunately, and tragically,
that every time California has an election, or almost every time Cali-
fornia has an election, this committee appears on the scene. It seems
that again the merry and w^eary farce is repeating itself. If I were I
would have a constitutional right to do it. Any questions of election
activities are certainly so patently forbidden from this committee to
inquire into that I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. You know very well that I am speaking of Com-
munist Party plans, not what people do as individuals. So what are
you doing as the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Healey. I repeat again the answer that I gave you earlier, and
that the Supreme Court in upholding the Constitution has already
stated that the activities of the Communist Party as activities are
protected by the first amendment and if there are any illegal activities
concerned there are agencies of the Government to take care of them.
I repeat again to you, gentlemen, the fact that after some 30 years
and after G months' time with 25 FBI informers testifying, there
could be found no proof that I have ever in my life engaged in any
illegal activities, in any conspiratorial activities of the kind that are
48 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
prohibited, should be indication of the fact that the committee simply
must carry on tliis type of thing not for the purpose of any genuine
legislative purpose that would be of any help or interest to the people
of the United States, but simply as a further attack on the Constitu-
tion.
Mr. Tavenner. How, if at all, did your treatise affect the Los
Angeles 22 who signed the letter of grievances ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you what purports to be a copy of a letter
of resignation to the National Committee, Communist Party of tha
United States, bearing date March 26,1958, and ask whether you are
familiar with its contents [handing letter to the witness] .
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner, I desire to offer the letter in evidence and ask that
it be marked "Healey Exhibit No. 24."
The Chairman. It will be made a part of the record.
(Healey Exhibit No. 24)
(For text of document see Report on the Southern California District of the
Communist Party, H. Kept. No. 259, April 3, 1959, p. 22)
Mr. Tavenner. This letter of March 26, 1958, addressed to the
National Committee, Communist Party of the United States, is signed
by 16 people from southern California, some from northern California,
resigning from the Communist Party and stating the reasons therefor.
Did you have anything to do with the preparation of that letter of
resignation ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you consulted about it ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. This letter clearly shows by its language and posi-
tive declaration that it is the purpose of this group when the time is
ripe to form an organization which will continue to advance com-
munism in the United States.
Will you tell the committee what knoAvledge you have regarding
any such plan ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Have overtures been made to you to resign from
the Communist Party and join this group?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, at this point I go into another sub-
ject. I do not know whether or not you want to stop here for lunch.
The Chairman. We will take a break. We will resume tlie hear-
ings at 2 o'clock.
(Members present: Representatives Walter and Tuck.)
(Wliereupon, at 12:25 p.m., Tuesday, September 2, 1958, a recess
was taken until 2 :10 p.m., this same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION— TUESDAY, SEFFEMBER 2, 1958
The hearing was resinned at 2 :1() p. in., pursuant to the recess.
The Chairman. The committee will be m order.
(Connnittee members present: Ilepresentatives Walter and Tuck.)
The Chairman. Are you ready, Mr. Margolis ?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 49
Mr. Margot.ts. Yes.
TJie CifATRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
TESTIMONY OP DOROTHY RAY HEALEY, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, BEN MARGOUS— Resumed
Mr, Tavenner. Did you attend as a delegate a meeting of the Na-
tional Committee of the Communist Party, U.S.A., held in New York
(^ity on June 28-29, 1958 ?
Mrs. IlF^iLEY. I decline to answei- on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Ben Dobbs one of the representatives or dele-
gates to that meeting from tlie Southern District of California?
Mrs. Hex^ley. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Charlene Alexander Mitchell a delegate to
that meeting from the Southern District of California ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Pettis Perry a delegate to that meeting ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr, Tavenner. From southern California ?
Mrs, Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner, Was there an enlarged meeting of the District
Council of the Southern District of California Communist Party and
Comnnmist Party functionaries liekl at 607 South Western Avenue,
Los Angeles, on Sunday, July 27, 1958, the purpose of which was to
receive a report from delegates to the national committee meeting held
on June 28 in New York City ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it not correct that the majority report to the
district council meeting that I referred to consisted of a copy of the
iieport of Eugene Dennis to the National Committee, CPITSA, pre-
sented on June 28, 1958 ; a copy of the Labor Policy statement adopted
by the National Committee, CPUSA, June 29, 1958, and a copy of a
rep(n't to National Committee, June 28, 1958, On the Work and Con-
solidation of the Party by Bob Thompson ? My question is : Did not
those three reports constitute the majority report to the Southern Dis-
trict Council of the California Communist Party?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I oU'er iri evidence, Mr. Chairman and ask that the
report of Eugene Dennis be marked "Healey Exhibit 25," the report
On the Work and Consolidation of the party by Bob Thompson be
marked "Healey Exhibit 26."
(Documents marked "Plealey Exliibits Nos. 25 and 26 respectively.)
( For text of documents see Exhibits XV and XVI of the Report on the Southern
California District of the Communist Party, H. Rept. No. 259, April 3, 1959,
pp. 100 and 110, respectively)
Mr, Tavenner. Also the repoi-t of the labor policy statement
adopted by the National Conunittee, CPUSA., as "Healey Exhibit
No. 27."
(Document marked "Healey Exhibit No. 27," and retained in committee files.)
The Chairman. They will be so marked.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you take the floor at the district council meeting-
held on July 27, to whicli I refered, and announce that you would
make a minority report on what took place at the national committee
meeting of June 28, 1958 ?
50 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mrs. Healet. Same answer.
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. Did you not at this district council meeting dis-
approve of the report of Dennis insofar as it related to Yugoslavia,
France, and the execution of Nagy ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. You understand that my reference to Yugoslavia
and P^rance has reference to the Communist Party of those countries?
Mrs. Healey. I understood.
Mr. Tavenner. Was a resolution introduced at the national com-
mittee meeting, June 28, opposing the execution of Nagy?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Was this resolution proposed by a group on the na-
tional committee generally referred to as the Healey bloc?
]Mrs. Healey. Same answer, Mr. Tavenner.
The Chairman. The Healey faction ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. The connnittee has information that tliis bloc,
known as the Healey bloc, Avas composed of 10 persons including
yourself. Was Anna Correa one of those ?
Mrs. Healey. The same answer, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Ben Dobbs of southern California one of those.
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Steve Nelson one of them ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Joe Roberts one of them ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Dave Davis one of them ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Si Gerson one of them ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Mickey Lima one of them ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Al Richmond, editor of the People's World
from northern California, one of tliat bloc ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Martha Stone of them ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the execution of Nagy the subject of discussion
at the July meeting of the district council ?
Mrs. Healey. I gather you are referring to the execution of Nagy ?
The Chairman. Imre Nagy.
Mrs. Healey. I decline to answer.
The Chairman. Mr. Tavenner appreciates your superior knowledge
of Mr. Nagy.
Mrs. Healey. I am of Hungarian ancestry.
Mr. Tavenner. Did not Pettis Perry and Charlene Mitchell, both
members of the national committee, James Forest, William Taylor,
and others, take the floor at the meeting of July 27, and express ap-
proval of the Soviet execution of Prime Minister Nagy?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you not oppose at the meeting of July 27 and
disagree with that part of the Thompson report relating to the lack
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 51
of confidence by Communist Party members in the Communist Party
and in its future ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information that at this meeting
of July 27, you stated that the Thompson approach on this question
was a real Trotsky line. Is that true ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. I fail to see any reason for levity that you seem to
be attempting to express here.
Mrs. Healey. Well, I must confess that, in the first place, the repe-
tition of questions in an illegal field becomes very wearisome. Sec-
ondly, the contents of some of the questions I gather are being asked
in a facetious manner.
Mr. Tavenner. No.
The Chairman. It must occur to you that someone knows all
about your activities to give us this information.
Mrs. Healey. Then if that is true, Mr. Walter, all the more rea-
son why this hearing is even more farcical than I indicated earlier.
If you already think that you know the answers to these questions
then my appearance is certainly a waste of your time and my time.
The Chairman. The last thing in the world I would do would be
waste my time.
Mrs. Healey. And I hope mine.
The Chairman. I am disturbed, though, by your refusal to help
this committee because we have every reason to believe that you
could render a great deal of service in the strengthening of the se-
curity of this great comitry of ours.
Mrs. Healey. I have a very strong feeling about strengthening
the security of our country. I feel it most passionately and deeply.
I think the best strength of this committee would be the abolition of
the mandate which, according to my opinion, weakens the security
of the country.
Mr. Tavenner. That is because of its efforts to present to Congress
the real facts regarding the activities of the Communist Party of
which you are a member, a leading member ; isn't that true ?
Mrs. Healey. The fact is that for over at least 20 years this com-
mittee has been carrying out ostensibly at least that purported pur-
pose, and the fact remains that all that time this committee has not
been able to bring in constitutional legislation because it is attempting
to go into fields which the committee knows is forbidden to it, and
tlierefore the conclusion of any citizen must be that what the commit-
tee is attempting to do is sini])ly to i)erpetuate itself and to carry
on an attack of black lies, of attempting exposure, in order to conduce
an atmosphere of conformity in the country. It is not a new thing
historically, and it is one of the reasons why the Bill of Rights was
put into the Constitution. From time immemorial there have been
political and ambitious men who have attempted to do precisely that.
I consider that resistance to this committee's illegal activities is the
highest attribute of patriotism.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee whether or not at this
meeting of July 27, you criticized the leadership of the Communist
Party by charging that there will soon be no interparty democracy
in (lio ( ^oirnuunist Party?
52 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mrs. Healey. The same answer as previously given.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you influenced to make any statement be-
fore this meeting of July 27 on interparty democracy by reason of the
dropping of Sam Kushner of ('hicago, slated for election to the na-
tional committee, because he did not come to the defense of the Den-
nis and Thompson reports ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. In fact, didn't you make that charge?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you not also announce at this meeting of July
27 that you made a motion to elect Ben Dobbs to the National Execu-
tive Committee of the Communist Party when this, the second largest
Communist area in the country, had no representation on that body ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. You did present such a motion, did you not, and
it was defeated ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr, Tavenner. Were you influenced in your criticism of the leader-
ship of the Communist Party by the fact that at the meeting of the
national committee you were limited to 10 minutes over a period of
3 days to express your views on Communist Party issues?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer,
Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you amiounce to the district meeting that
that was all the time you were allowed ?
Mrs, Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you not criticize the leadership of the Com-
munist Party on the ground that although the Thompson report was
permitted to be filed and approved, you were not given an opportunity
to even discuss it on the floor ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you charge that the penalty of nonconform-
ity to the dictates of the leadership of the Coimnunist Party was
expulsion from leadereliip ?
Mrs. Healey. In view of all your questions, Mr. Tavenner, that
you have been asking me, both you and the Congressman claim that
you have tliis in your file, and it would appear to be at least para-
doxical. You claim that I am a member of the national committee
and then you recite all these lists of disagreements and contradictions
tliat I have with the national committee, and yet you say
The Chairman. Will you ansAver the question ?
Mr. Tavenner. What do you say ?
Mrs. Healey. I decline to ansAver tlie question.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Ben Davis at the national committee meeting
charge you with Titoism?
Mrs. Heali:y. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you state that that occurred at the meeting
of your district council on July 27 ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you not also say — ]p< ino put it this Avay —
tlie committee has information tliat at the meeting of July 27, yon
stated that Ben Davis at the national committee meeting said that you
should be removed from leadership iu southern California?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 53
]\Ir. Tavknnek. Is that true ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Ta\^nner. "VVTien you reported what Ben Davis had said, did
not most of those present at the district convention applaud, thus
indicating their approval of your removal from leadership in the
Conmiunist Party in the Soutliern District of California (^
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. After the making of a minority report by you at
the meeting of July 27 of the district council, what course was then
taken at the meeting to stifle tlie opposition that you had expressed
to tlie Dennis report, the execution of Nagy, and your opposition to
the Thompson report ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Was not Pettis Perry called upon to make a ma-
jority report from the floor?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Ta^^nner. Did not Pettis Peri-y read to those present page 74
of the Sixteenth National Convention party resolution, stating that
the majority views must be abided by ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did he not state that all Communists are duty-
bound to support all three reports ?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did not Pettis Perry criticize the Healey bloc for
standing up and criticizing Socialist countries in the national com-
mittee meeting?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Does not all this demonstrate that the Foster fac-
tion is firmly in control of the Communist Party, USA, that demo-
cratic centralism at its worst is being enforced under the threats of
expulsion ?
(Counsel confers with his client.)
Mr. Tavenner. And the country is in fact being faced with the same
Communist Party as existed prior to the Sixteenth National Conven-
tion and under the tutelage and direction of Moscow ?
Mrs. Healey. Well, if what you mean by demonstration, that type
of demonstration that would be necessary under due process, I don't
think your question demonstrates anything. No facts have been ad-
duced that indicate that. But you obviously have an opinion. If
you are asking my opinion, I decline to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. In fact, the only thing that saved you at the July
meeting from disciplinary action of the Communist Party was the
tabling of a motion that was made for your removal as district chair-
man ; isn't that correct?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
(Counsel confers Avith his client.)
Mr. Tavenner. What is the Connnunist Paity plan at this time for
the infiltration of non-Communist associations in southern California?
Mrs. Healey. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. I have no questions.
Mr. Tuck. I have no questions.
54 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Ta\'enner. Mr. Chairman, three witnesses have been subpenaed
who are represented by Mr. Margolis, each of whom has furnished
medical information indicating serious ilhiess and, in the judgment of
their physicians, it would be dangerous for them to appear as wit-
nesses. I seem to have mislaid them.
Mr. Margolis. I have them.
^ The Chairman. Do you know the physicians ?
Mr. Margolis. I do not, sir, but I know their reputation. One of
them, for example, is from Cedars of Lebanon Hospital. I do not
know if you are familiar with it, but it is considered one of the finest
hospitals here. I do not think that I know any of the three doctors
personally, if that is what you are asking, but I do know them by repu-
tation. I have talked to them over the phone.
The Chairman. They would not give certificates unless there was
reason for it ?
Mr. Margolis. I am absolutely positive they would not. I told them
over the phone, though, I don't think it is necessary that they should
be willing to submit each of these persons to a physical examination to
any doctor that the committee desired if the committee desired it,
and that we wanted the kind of report which any reputable doctor
would agree with one way or the other.
The Chairman. These are reputable doctors ?
Mr. Margolis. Oh, yes : no question about it.
The Chairman. I guess that is all right.
Mr. Ta\^nner. The names of these witnesses are Morris Karson,
, and .
May I suggest that the medical statements be filed ?
The Chairman. Yes, we will file them and continue these witnesses
under subpena.
]Mr. ]Margolis. Continue pending further investigation ?
The Chairman. That is right.
Mr. ]\Iargolis. As I say, they are willing, any of them, to submit to
an examination if that is the desire of the committee.
As I understand it, their present appearance date is vacated ; is that
correct ?
The Chairman. No ; it is not vacated. It is set aside for the moment.
Tliey do not have to appear until they are notified.
^fr. Margolis. I understand that. In other words, it will not be
a defiance to this committee's order not to appear on the date for which
they have the subpena.
Tlie Chairman. Call your next witness.
Mr. Ta'\t:nner. I would like to call Mr. Donald Wheeldin.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand ?
Mr. Miller. I am not Mr. "VVlieeldin, Your Honor.
The Chairman. Do not call me "Your Honor."
Mr. Millar. Excuse the old courtroom habit.
STATEMENTS OF LOREN MILLER AND AL WIRIN, ATTORNEYS,
LOS ANGELES, CALIT.
Mr. Miller. My name is Loren Miller. I am an attorney at law
with offices at 2822 South Western, Los Angeles. My telephone
number is REpublic l-il42. I appear here with Mr. Al Wirin, who is
also an attorney here on behalf of Mr. Wlieeldin.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 55
If I may be permitted to do so
The Chairman. On behalf of whom ?
Mr. Tavenner. The name is Don Wheeldin, W-h-e-e-1-d-i-n.
Mr. Miller. If I may be permitted, I would like to make a state-
ment.
Mr. Tavenner. May I ask a question first ?
Mr. Miller. Yes.
The Chairman. A'\niere is the witness?
Mr. MILTJ2R. If I may make a statement, I will explain as best I
can where the witness is.
The Chairman. The witness was subpenaed and he is not here?
Mr. Miller. That is the fact of the matter, sir.
The Chairman. Is not that the end of it, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right. Call another witness.
Mr. Miller. I take it by that yon would not permit me to make an
explanation of his absence ?
The Chairman. Your sole function in matters of this sort is to
advise your client as to his rights under the Constitution of the
United States, not to advise us.
Mr. Miller. I understand that.
The Chairman. Call your next witness.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Newman.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, please?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so helj)
you God ?
Mrs. Newman. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MARY LOIS NEWMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
DAN MARSHALL
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please ?
Mrs. Newman. Mary Lois Newman.
Mr. Tavenner. Let the record show the witness is accompanied by
INIr. Dan Marshall, counsel, from the city of Los Angeles.
Mr. Marshall. Mr. Tavenner and this committee, this witness
intends — —
The Chairman. Mr. Marshall, we have not asked her any questions.
Mr. Marshall. One question.
The Chairman. We will ask her the questions and then you can
advise her, but we do not permit statements, as you well know.
Mr. Marshall. There is a question pending. May I have it again ?
Mr. Tavenner. What is your address?
(Counsel confers with his client.)
The ChxVIRman. Do you need legal advice as to where you live?
(Counsel confers with his client.)
Mrs. Newman. I am going to decline to answer under my constitu-
tional privileges of the first amendment and fifth amendment.
Mr. Marshall. Mr. Tavenner, the witness has not finished.
(Counsel confers with his client.)
'I'he Chairman. What is it you are reading?
Mrs. Newman. A memorandum.
56 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
The Chairman. I think the record should show that counsel handed
a piece of paper to the witness from which she is reading.
Mrs. Newman. Yes.
The Chairman. From what are you reading ?
Mrs. Newman. A memorandum.
The Chairman. All right.
Mrs. Newman. I will decline to answer on the 1st amendment, the
Bill of Rights, the 4th amendment of the Bill of Rights, the (itli amend-
ment of the Bill of Rights, the 9th amendment of the Bill of Rights,
and the 10th amendment of the Bill of Rights, and that it lacks
pertinency.
The Chairman. You are declining to answer for the reasons given
to the question as to your address ?
(Counsel confers with his client.)
Mrs. Newman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Do j^ou live at 215 Sandalwood Avenue, La Puente,
Calif.?
Mrs. Newman. I will decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation ?
Mrs. Newman. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Taa'enner. Are you a housewife and seamstress ?
Mrs. Newman. Same answer.
Mr. Marshall. Mr. Walter, will it be understood that
The Chairman. By "the same answer," you mean the answers
she read from the piece of paper that you handed her when she was
asked the first question ?
Mr. Marshall. That is, she will be deemed to have declined to
answer upon all the grounds stated.
The Chairman. That is right.
Mr. Marshall. In her refusal to answer the first question.
The Chairman. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. Was your maiden name Mary Lois Brahm ?
Mrs. Newman. I decline to answer on the same grounds that I
previously stated.
Mr. Taa^enner. Was the date of your birth April 17, 1918, in
Indiana ?
Mrs. Newman. I decline to answer on the same grounds as stated
before.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you currently a member of the Communist
Party of Los Angeles County ?
Mrs. Newman. I decline to answer on the same gi-ounds.
Mr. Tavenner. According to committee information, you were a
member of the Communist Party as far back as 1943 in this area. Is
that true, or is it false ?
Mrs. Newman. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you recently resigned from the Communist
Party?
Mrs. Newman. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. According to information in possession of the com-
mittee, you signed a letter dated December 14, 1957, as one of the 22
individuals, addressed to the National Committee of tlie Conmiunist
Party of the United States, which was in the form of a letter of
grievances.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 57
Our principal puq)ose in calling- you here is to ask 3^on the circum-
stances under which you signed this letter.
(Counsel confers with his client.)
Mr. Marshaij,. May we have a copy of the letter that you referred
to?
The Chairman. After she answers the question we will be very
Iiappy to furnish her with the letter.
Air. Tavenner. My question is : Did you sign such a letter ?
Mrs. Newman. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the San Gabriel Section of
the Communist Party on December 14, 1957 ?
(Counsel confers w^th his client.)
Mrs. Newman. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Ta\tenner. You are the wife of Mr. Morton Newman ; are you
not?
Mrs. Newman. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Mr. Morton Newman also signed this letter or is
purported to have signed this letter of December 14, 1957, and also
js purported to have resigned from the Communist Party under date
of March 26, 1958.
Mr, Marshall. Could the entire question be ref ramed ?
Mr. TA^^ENNER. Yes, if there is confusion about it.
The committee has information that Mr. Morton Newman signed the
Los Angeles 22 letter of grievances bearing date December 14, 1957,
find that he also signed a letter of resignation to the Communist Party
bearing date of March 26, 1958, thus indicating his resignation from
the party on the latter date.
Did you resign from the Communist Party on the 26th of March
1958?
Mrs. Newman. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time a functionary of tlie Com-
munist Party ?
(Counsel confers with his client.)
Mrs. Newman. I decline to answer on tlie same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you directed by a Communist Party organiza-
tion to Avork for the Communist Party in mass organizations, such as
women's groups ?
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Newman. I will decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Or the Independent Progressive Party ?
(Counsel confers with his client.)
Mrs. Newman. I will decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Did you engage in activities in those organizations
for the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Newman. I will decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I offer in evidence a copy of a petition to partici-
pate in the primary election of June 1, 1948, of the Independent Pro-
gressive Party of California to which there is appended an affidavit
of Mrs. Mary Lois Newman, and ask that it be marked "Newman
Exhibit No. 1."
The Chairman. IMark it and let it be made a part of the record.
(Document marked "Newman Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
58 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. I hand the witness the exhibit and ask if the signa-
( lire appearing on the last page is her signature [document handed to
witness and her counsel] .
(Witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Newman. I will decline to answer on the same gi'ounds.
Mr. TA\'EiNrNER. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Are there any questions ?
Mr. Tuck. No.
Mr. WiRiN. This time the witness whom I represent is here.
The Chairman. I notice.
Will you raise your right hand ? Stand up, please.
Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be tlie truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the trutli, so help you God ?
Mr. Arkin. I do.
TESTIMONY OF DAVID FRANCIS ARKIN, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, AL WIRIN
Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. David Francis Arkin, A-r-k-i-n?
Mr. Arkin. That is right, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noticed that the witness is accompanied by
counsel, Mr. Al Wirin, of the Los Angeles Bar.
"\^nien and where were you born, ISIr. Arkin ?
Mr. Arkin. I was born December 19, 1906, in New York City.
Mr. TAMi:NNER. What is your occupation ?
Mr. Arkin. At the present time I am unemployed.
Mr. Taa^enner. Previous to that, what was your occupation ?
Mr. Arkin. I was a designer, draftsman.
Mr. Tavenner. Previous to that ?
Mr. Arkin. I was a teacher.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly your formal educational
training?
Mr. Arkin. I had a bachelor's degree, a B.A., aud rouglily about 80
postgraduate credits in general fields of education.
The Chairman. Where ?
Mr. Arkin. That was at New York University.
Mr, Ta\t.nner. According to the committee's information, you were
employed by the Los Angeles City Board of Education as a school-
teacher from 1947 to approximately 1953, is that correct ?
Mr. Arkin. That is cori-ect.
^Ir. Tavenner. When did you first come to California from New
^m-kCity?
Mr. Arkin. I imagine in 1945.
Mr. TA^^2NNER. What was the nature of your employment between
1945 and 1947?
Mr. Arkin. During the war years I was a draftsman, and prior to
tliat I was a teacher, a substitute teacher.
Mv. Ta\tenner. What Avas the cause of the change of your employ-
ment from that of a schoolteacher to that of a draftsman?
Mr. Arkin. It was twice that I changed from that of a school-
teacher to that of a draftsman. The original cause, when I first was
a substitute teacher I mentioned, the pay of a substitute teacher was
roughly about half of that of a regular teacher, and when the war
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 59
came along, I quit teaching because of the low pay and became a
draftsman.
Mr. Tavt.nner. You said that was tlie first time ?
Mr. Arkin. That was the first time.
Mr. Tavenner. What about the second time ?
]Mr. Arkin. The second time I appeared before the Los Angeles
Board of Education. I was called there under the terms of the Dil-
Avorth Act to answer questions relative to my political affiliations.
Mr. Tav'enner. By "political affiliations," do you refer to member-
ship in the Communist Party ?
Mr. Arkin. Tliey asked me questions as to membership in a politi-
cal party.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer my question, please, sir?
Mr. Arkin. Yes, it was relati\e to that question.
Mr, Tavenner. What was the result of that hearing?
Mr. Arkin. The result was that I was discharged from my posi-
tion because I refused to answer the queries of the Board of Educa-
tion because I thought it an invasion of my constitutional rights.
Mr. Taatsnner. At that time, were you a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Arkin. I feel that questions of this character, as I stated be-
fore to the committee, and I am consistent, in that I feel they are an
invasion of my rights as an American citizen under the Constitution
and I feel that the Supreme Court has very clearly stated that I can
be protected by the Constitution so as not to answer these questions.
I think the committee itself would agree with me if what I read
in the press is correct that the Supreme Court has stated that the
Constitution forbids that type of inquiry into one's political views.
(\)nsequently, I would like to refuse to answer that question on the
grounds, first, of the 1st amendment which guarantees free speech,
free assembly; secondly, on the ground of the 5th amendment; and
tliird, on the ground of the 14th amendment, which I think also pro-
tects me, because anything that protects one citizen of the United
States in his rights, in his civil rights, also protects all citizens of
the United States.
I feel that this amendment which protects their rights in questions
of race also protects me in that same regard.
I also would like to say that I refuse to answer that question for
the same reason as a teacher, that teachers down in the South refuse
to answer whether they Avere members of the National Association
of Colored People, because they were in a hostile political environ-
ment.
The Chairman. Do you refuse to answer the question ?
Mr. Arkin. I refuse to answer on certain grounds.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Arkin. And I have not completed my grounds. It will be
just another half a minute.
I do not intend to make a speech here, but I want to state my
grounds clearly, and it is hard for me, not being a trained legal person,
to state them clearly, but for your satisfaction and myself — then, also,
I refuse to answer as to that letter because of the precept set down
to me by another teacher whose opinion I value very, ver}^ highly.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it not true
38253— 59— pt. 1 4
60 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
The CirATiofAN. Just u niinnto.
You (Iodine to answer for those reasons?
Mr. AiJKTN. T decline to ans-sver for those reasons.
The Chaikman. All rifrht.
Mr. TaveN'Ner. Is it. not true tlial. you are at this time a member
of the Hioliland Park Club of the Zapata Section of the Communist
Party of tlie Southern District of the Communist Part}^ of California ?
Mr. Arkin. Well, I believe that this question is similar in char-
acter to the other questions and I think tlie same reasons would liold.
(Counsel confers with his client.)
The Chairman. By that I understand you to mean that you i-efuse
to answer for the reasons given for not answering the last question ?
Mr. Arkin. Yes, because of constitutional grounds.
The Chairman. I just want the record to show that.
Mr. Arkin. Yes, constitutional grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. May I have direction that the witness answer the
question ?
Tlie Chairman. Yes; you are directed to answer that question.
Mr. Arkin. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons
mentioned on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time receive directions from a Com-
munist Party unit to engage in Communist Party activities within
various youth groups and panel meetings sponsored by the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Arkin. Well, I refuse to answer on the same grounds because
this is of the same character.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you engage in such activities at the instance
of the Communist Party?
Mr. Arkin. Well, I refuse to answer on the same grounds.
I had not completed my grounds before, but also on the grounds,
as I am advised by my counsel, that I do not believe this question is
pertinent to the activities of the committee, to the nature of this
hearing.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you directed by the Communist Party to
engage in Communist Party activities within the Independent Pro-
gressive Party ?
Mr. Arkin. Well, I had not completed the grounds on which I
refuse to answer. I said that there was a teacher wdio advised me
on this question by letter and I attached great weight to it at a pre-
vious time when questions of a similar character were asked.
He sent me a letter and I think it reinforces my convictions :
(Heading :)
As you well know, I have repeatedly expressed my opinions on all the present
infringements on the private and political life of teachers and other citizens,
and I am convinced that noncooperation in all investigations of that kind is
justified and even a civic duty. I am convinced that if the present tempest
is blown out the people will recognize the important service you and your col-
leagues have rendered to your community by your active courage and resistance.
Signed "Albert Einstein." This was dated sometime before he
died.
The Chairman. Never mind. Answer the questions.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question that I asked ?
Mr. Arkin. I refuse to ansAver on these grounds and on the grounds
that Ih9,yestate(3,
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 61
Mr. Tavexxer. Mr. Chairman, I offer in evidence a copy of a pe-
tition of the Independent Progi-essive Party of California to par-
ticipate in the primary election of June 1, 1948, at the end of which is
attached an affidavit of David F. Arkin, as one who circulated this
petition. May it be admitted in evidence and marked "Arkin Exhibit
No. 1"?
The Chairman. We will mark it.
(Document marked "Arkin Exhibit No. 1" and retained i)i com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. I hand yon the document and ask you whether or
not that is your signature to the affidavit on the last page?
Mr. Arkin. Well, I refuse to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. At the time that you were a teacher in the public
school system of Los Angeles, did you engage in other teaching in the
summer ?
Mr. Arkix'. In other teaching ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Arkin. No ; not in other teaching.
Mr. Tavenner. I have before me the summer session, 1946, catalog
of the People's Educational Center, which on page 11 carries this
headnote in black type :
American History, An Introduction. David F. Arl<in, Instructor.
This is a study of the main periods in American history designed to develop
a unified understanding of the social forces in the development of the United
States. It will meet the needs both of previous students of history and those
who have had no earlier study. The topics to be discussed here include the
American colonists on the eve of the Revolution ; the American Revolution and
the War for Independence ; organizing the Nation ; the rise of Jeffersonian
democracy ; the defense of the Nation ; Jacksonian democracy ; slavery and the
antislavery movements ; the Civil War ; reconstructing the Nation ; America be-
comes industrialized ; and America becomes a world power. Monday 7 :00 to 8 :30
P.M.
Did you conduct that course ?
Mr. AiiKiN. No ; I did not conduct the course and at the time — your
question was. Was I teaching at the time ? I was not teaching at that
time. The course was never given. And consequently I did not con-
duct the course. At that time I was without employment. They
offered me some job with an educational center.
Mr. Tavenner. You did have a job at the educational center ?
Mr. Arkin. No ; I did not have a job. They offered me some work
as a course.
Mr. TA^^NNER. The People's Educational Center offered you
Mr. Arkin. Some work. I was out of work at the time but I was
not teaching at the time. You understand
Mr. Tavenner. Nevertheless you were listed in the catalog for the
summer session.
Mr. Arkin. Well
Mr. Tavenneh. As being prepared to give this course.
Mr. Arkin. I was listed, but your original question had been, When
I was teaching, did I teach during the summer?
Mr. Tavenner. All right. You were listed in the catalog to give
the course that I indicated.
Mr. Arkin. The catalog gives my name and it was listed but tiie
course was never ffiven.
62 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavennj^r. But you did uot participate in the giving of this
course ?
Mr. Arkin. Xo ; I did not.
Mr. Tavexner. Did you engage in any work for the People's Edu-
cational Center with or without pay ?
Mr. Arkin. I didn't participate there as an organized member.
There was a prospectus given but I did not participate at this time.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any otlier time ?
Mr. Arkix. No; not at any otlier time.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you lend your services in any way to the Peo-
ple's Educational Center?
Mr. Arkin. They wanted to organize the course. They were will-
ing to pay a nominal sum for a course they knew that I had some ex-
perience teaching and they wanted to organize the course.
I at that time was unemployed and any chance to earn some money,
to me, was a valuable chance. I agreed. The course was not given.
There was a prospectus telling ab<)ut the course but I was not em-
ployed. I never received any pay for it and the course was not
promulgated.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, but you have not directly and specifically an-
swered my question. Did you engage in any services of any char-
acter for the People's Educational Center, whether it was conducting
a course, assisting in the conducting of a course, or anything ? That
is as broad as one can make it.
Mr. Arkin. By services, do you mean paid services ?
Mr. Tavenner. Xo, I specifically said paid or unpaid.
Mr. Arkin. Well, I prepared prospectuses for this particular course,
let us say. I assisted in preparing what I thought would be a good
course in American histoiy. The course was never given.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you perform any services other than the
preparation of this prospectus ?
Mr. Arkin. No. I simply wanted to be as frank as possible with
the committee insofar as questions were asked me which I didn't think
Avere an invasion of my constitutional rights. At this particular time
I felt, after the war, was interested in general progressive ideas in-
volved around the Roosevelt movement. So I lent my services to that
course.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the summer session of that school conducted
at all?
Mr. Arkin. That I don't knoAv, because I wasn't very greatly in-
volved with that school because I was rather new to the city. I had
come to the city rather early and I was looking for work in California
as a draftsman and something came along in the interim and I
thought that that might be a possibility there. But it wasn't. It
didn't turn out to be a possibility for work.
Mr. Tavenner. It was cited as a Communist and subversive organ-
ization by the then Attorney General, Tom Clark, in a letter released
on June 1, 104S. Were vou connected in any way with that organiza-
tion after June 1, lO-tS?"
Mr. Arkin. I doubt it. I really doubt it. I came to California, I
think it Avas lO-iG. I doubt it.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 63
j\Ir. Tavenner. Are you aware of the writing of a letter of griev-
ances to the National Committee of the Communist Party by members
of the Communist Party of Southern California, in December 1957?
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Arkin. I refuse to answer that question on the same constitu-
tional grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you solicited to be one of the signers of that
letter?
Mr. Arkin. I refuse to answer the question.
]\Ir. Tavenner. The letter was followed by a reply made by Dorothy
Ray Healey at a district council meeting, and then by a letter of
resignation signed by quite a number of the Communist Party mem-
bers of southern California under date of March 26, 1958. Were you
solicited to join in that letter of resignation?
Mr. Arkin. I refuse to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on
March 26, 1958?
Mr. Arkin. I refuse to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now ?
Mr. Arkin. I refuse to answer on the same grounds, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Any questions ?
Mr. Tuck. I have no questions.
The Chairman. Will you stand and raise your right hand?
Do you swear that the testmony you are about to give will be the
truth, the wdiole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Creed. I do.
TESTIMONY OF THOMAS D. CREED, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
BEN MAEGOLIS
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ?
Mr. Creed. Thomas D. Creed.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name?
Mr. Creed. C-r-e-e-d.
Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please iden-
tify himself for the record?
Ail-. Margolis. Ben Margolis, 112 West 9th Street, Los Angeles,
Calif.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you bom, Mr. Creed ?
Mr. Creed. I was born in Muscle Shoals, Ala., April 15, 1919.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation ?
Mr. Creed. I am a stock chaser.
Mr. Tavenner. A what ?
Mr. Creed. Stock chaser.
Mr. Tavenner. What industry ?
Mr. Creed. The automobile industry.
Mr. Tavenner. What is a stock chaser ?
Mr. Creed. I belong with a group of other men in that line of work.
We provide material to the assembly line so that it can operate.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your residence ?
Mr. Creed. 1436 West 48th Street, Los Angeles, Calif.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you presently a member of the Communist
Party?
64 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Creed. I am ^oing to refuse to ansAver that question.
The Chairman. Do you refuse to answer?
Mr. Creed. I do refuse to answer that question.
The Chairman. The record has to show that you refuse to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it not a fact that you are currently a member of
the executive board of tlie Southern California District Council
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information that this executive
board is composed of 10 persons of which Dorothy Ray Ilealey
is the chairman, and I am referring to the executive board of
tlie district council. Will you state whether or not Horace V. Alex-
ander is one of tlie members of that board?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Is Ben Dobbs a member ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr, Tavenner. Is James Forest a member ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr, Tavenner. Is Bernard Lusher a member?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Is Charlene Mitchell a member?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Is Nemmy Sparks a member?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you at the present time a member of the District
Labor Commission of the Communist Party of the Southern District
of California ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. May I have a direction that the witness answer that
question ?
The Chairman. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Margolis. Did the witness state the grounds for his refusal?
The Chairman. No.
Mr. Tavenner. If he says for the reasons heretofore given
Mr, Margolis. I wondered if he hadn't given any reasons.
Mr, Creed, I hadn't been directed to answer the question until the
present time. I am refusing to answei' the question under direction
for the following reasons: I don't think that any questions you might
ask me about any people with whom I might associate or any organi-
zations to which I might belong are pertinent to any field of legislation
of which this committee is empowered to make an investigation. I
think that such questions are an invasion of my rights under the first
amendment guaranteeing me freedom of speech, assembly, and asso-
ciation of people of my own choosing, and lastly, on refusing to answer,
I am invoking my rights under the fifth amendment protecting me
against possible self-incrimination.
Mr. Tavenner. May I have a direction ?
The Chairman. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds stated.
Mr, Tavenner, I hand you a document entitled "Trade Union Reso-
lution, Southern California District Convention, parts I and II."
Will you examine it, please, and state whether or not you can identify
it as a document of the Communist Party for the Southern District
of California?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 65
Mr. Creed. I refuse to identify tlie document on the grounds previ-
ously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. This document shows on its face that it deals with
the national draft trade union resolution, and that it was adopted by
the trade union subcommittee of the resolutions committee of the
Southern California District Convention.
Will you tell the committee, please, who composed the trade union
subcommittee of the resolutions committee?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. As indicated, the committee has information that
you were a member of the District Labor Commission of the Com-
munist Party. Is that true?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Ta\t!nner. Is not Bernard Lusher the head of that conunission ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds stated.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information that you have been
active for the Communist Party for a number of years in the trade-
union area. Is that correct ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you not a delegate to the Southern Cali-
fornia District Convention of the Communist Party held on April
13 and 14,1957?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you not represent the labor section of the Com-
munist Party at that convention ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. While in attendance at that convention, did you
hear the address of Dorothy Healey in w^hich she outlined the pro-
gram of the Communist Party in the labor field ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you aware of the present plan for Com-
munist Party activities within the field of labor in the Southern
District of California ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you participated in any activity of the Com-
munist Party in support of the Foster group of the Communist Party
as distinguished from the so-called revisionists?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. You are aware of the fact, are you not, that at a
meeting of the district council on the 27th of July 1958, a motion was
made, although tabled, to oust Dorothy Ray Healey from leadership
in the Communist Party in Southern California? You are aware
of that ; are you not ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you suppoi-ting her in her activities in the
Communist Party or are you opposing her ?
Mr. Creed. I am refusing to answer the question on the grounds
stated.
66 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the United Auto and
Aircraft Workers Union ?
Mr, Creed. I stated earlier I wasn't going to answer any questions
concerning any organizations to which I am a member. I refuse to
answer the question on the gi'ounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. May I have a direction ?
The Chairman. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Is action being taken because of the fact that
you were discharged from Chrysler Local 230 as a member, or I
should say suspended instead of discharged ?
Mr. Creed. I didn't understand your question.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you taking the position that you will
not answer questions regarding your union because you were at one
time, in 1952, discliarged from membership in Chrysler Local 280
for conduct unbecoming a union member ?
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Creed. You have been making a lot of statements which make
assumptions. I don't necessarily accept your assumptions but I am
refusing to answer the questions for the grounds stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Since you refer to it as being an assumption, let
me introduce in evidence a thermofax copy of an article from the
February 13, 1952, issue of the People's World referring to the
charges that had been made against you by your union, and ask that
it be marked "Creed Exhibit No. 1."
Tlie CHAiR:\rAN. It may be made a part of the record.
(Document marked "Creed Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Were you not fined $100 and given a year's sus-
pension ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer tliat question. I do so on the
grounds previously stated.
Afv. Tavenner. At a su1)sequent date did not the international ex-
ecutive board of tlie CIO, Ignited Anto and Aircraft Workers, reverse
the decision and restore you to employment ; isn't that correct ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
vionsly stated. You know all this.
The Chairman. What do you mean he knows it ?
Mr. Creed. You claim to know it.
jNtr. Tavenner. Then you admit that it is correct?
Mr. Creed. I am not admitting anything.
Afr. Tavennkr. Let us come then to tliis <]nestion. Was it known to
the international executive board. Ignited Auto and Aircraft Workers,
;vt the time of the reversal, that vou were a member of the Communist
Party ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question on the previous
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Your membership in the Communist Party was
the subject, the real motivating subject, of your suspension; was it
not?
"Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer tliat question on pi'evious grounds.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 67
Mr. Tavenner. You were during that period a member of tlie
Communist Party?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you liave a record of service in the Armed
Forces ?
Mr. Creed. I was in the United States Navy for 22 months.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you discliarged ?
Mr. Creed. February 16, 1946.
Mr. Tavenner. It was an lionorable discharge ; was it not ?
Mr. Creed. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. After your discharge, did you become a member
of the American Veterans Committee ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds ])revi-
ously stated. I have ah-eady said I wouldn't answer any questions con-
cerning any organizations of whicli I am a member or may ha^e been
a member.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member in 1951 of the Haywood Section
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question on previously stated
grounds.
Ml". Tavenner. Were you directed by any Communist Party unit
to take part in the work of various organizations for the benefit of the
Communist Party, for instance, the Negro Labor Council ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question on previous grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you become chairman of the publicity com-
mittee of the Negro Labor Council of Los Angeles ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question on previously stated
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you not sent as a delegate of that council to
the national convention held in Cleveland, Ohio, in 1952 ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a delegate to the Los Angeles County (\)n-
^'ention of the Communist Party held January 5 and 6, 1957 ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you not also a delegate to the California
District Convention held on April 13 and 14, 1957, which was the or-
ganizational meeting of the new district ?
Mr. Creed. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Any questions ?
Mr. Tuck. No questions.
Mr. Creed. I am excused ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. We will take a brief recess.
(Members present : Representatives Walter and Tuck.)
( Short recess. )
( Members present : Representatives Walter and Tuck. )
The Chairman. AVill you stand please, and raise your right hand.
Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give will be tlie
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Alexander. I do.
G8 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
TESTIMONY OF HORACE V. ALEXANDER, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, DAN MARSHALL
Mr. Tavenner. State your name, please, sir.
Mr. Alexander. My name is Horace V. Alexander.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that the witness is accompanied by Mr.
Dan Marshall, member of the Los Angeles Bar.
"NVlieji and where were you born, Mr. Alexander?
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Alexander. Mr. Chairman, I decline to answer this question
on the following grounds :
The 1st amendment of the Bill of Eights, the 4th amendment of the
Bill of Rights, the 5th amendment of the Bill of Rights, the 6th
amendment of the Bill of Rights, the 9th amendment of the Bill of
Rights, the 10th amendment of the Bill of Rights; and further, Mr.
Chairman, this question lacks pertinency. This committee has not
given me or made available any knowledge which conceivably could
make this inquiry and this question pertnient to that degree of ex-
plicitness and authority required by the due process clause. The
power of this committee is not unlimited, sir. It has no general
authority to expose the private affairs of individuals simply for the
sake of exposure.
This investigation is unrelated to any legislative purpose, being
beyond the powers conferred upon the Congress under the Consti-
tution.
This committee has not made it appear with undisputable clarity
the subject matter of this inquiry.
It is the duty of this committee on my present question on the
grounds of pertinency to state for tlie record the subject of inquiry
and the manner in which this question is pertinent.
I further demand that this explanation must be meaningful, must
define what the topic of the inquiry is, and the reason why the ques-
tion now asked me relates to it.
The Chairman. You have been merely asked your name. I direct
you to answer the question.
Mr. Marshall. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, I couldn't quite hear
v>^hat you said.
Mr. Tavenner. It was the place of birth.
The Chairman. He was asked the place of birth. Where were you
born ?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer the question, sir, on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the date of your birth May 17, 1924, and the
city in Texas ?
Mr, Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on previous
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your address ?
Mr. Alexander. I would decline to answer that question, sir, on
tlie grounds stated.
Mr. IVIarshall. Mr. Chairman, will it be understood that the wit-
ness by declining to answer upon the grounds previously stated will
be deemed to have incorporated in that objection all the grounds
separately stated by him ?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 69
The Chairman. Yes, it will be understood that when he objects
and states ''on the grounds stated," it will include all of the grounds.
Mr. Tavennek. Is your correct address 736 East 74:th Street, Los
Angeles, Calif.?
Mr. Alexandeh. I decline to answer that question sir, on the same
grounds.
jMr. Tavenner. Are you a machine shop foreman by occupation ?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question on previous
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you serve in the Armed Forces of the United
States?
Mr. Alexander. I would decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds stated above.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you directed by any unit of the Communist
I*arty to take part in any movement for the formation of the Inde-
pendent Progressive Party ?
Mr. Alexander. I would decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds stated before.
Mr. Tavenner. I offer in evidence a thermofax copy of an excerpt
from the January 26, 1948, issue of People's World and ask that it be
marked "Alexander Exhibit No. 1."
The Chairman. It may be marked.
(Document marked "Alexander Exliibit No. 1," and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. This article identifies the witnass as participating
in the march sponsored by the youth committee of the Independent
Progressive Party in opposition to universal military training.
Did you engage in such an activity ?
Mr. Marshall. Could we see the exhibit, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
(Exhibit handed to the witness.)
Mr. Alexander. I would decline to ansAver that question, sir, on
(he grounds previously stated.
Mr. Ta\t5NNEr. I olt'er in evidence a thermofax copy of an excerpt
from the April 20, 1948, issue of the People's World,' entitled "2,000
at Wallace Forum" and ask that it be marked "Alexander Exhibit No.
2." This issue identifies the witness with the National Association
for the Advancement of Colored People and also as a member of the
Students For Wallace.
(Document marked "Alexander Exhibit No. 2," and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state, Mr. Witness, whether or not on
April 20, 1948, you were a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answei- that question, sir, on the same
grounds stated before.
Mr. Tavenner. I oftei- in evidence a thermofax copy of an excerpt
from the July 27, 1948, issue of the People's World, and ask that it
be nuii-ked "Alexander Exhibit No. o.'"
(Document marked "Alexandrr l^^xhihit No. ■'<," and rt'laiucd in
commiltee files.)
Ml". Tavennek. This artich' idtMitllics (lie wilnt'ss as Slalc \icc
chairman of Students For AYallace.
Mr, Witness, were you on the 27th day of July 1948 a member of
the Connnunist Party?
70 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer tliat question on the grounds
previously stated, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. May the exhibits be received in evidence 'i
The Chairman. They will be marked and received in the record.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer into evidence a therniofax copy of
the March 30, 1954, issue of People's World and ask that it be
marked "Alexander Exhibit No. 4."
This document identifies the witness as a candidate for secretary of
state on the Independent Progressive Party ticket.
Were you a candidate for such an office in 1954?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer the question on the grounds
stated.
(Document marked "Alexander Exhibit Xo. 4," and letained in
conmiittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on
March 30, 1954?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the pre-
vious grounds stated.
Mr. Tavenner. May the exhibit be accepted in evidence ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. I offer in evidence !i photostatic copy of the ap-
pomtment of members of the State Central Committee of the Inde-
pendent Progressive Party in the year 1952 and ask that it be marked
"Alexander Exhibit No. 5."
The Chairman. Mark it and make it a part of the record.
(Document marked "Alexander Exhibit No. 5," and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. This record identifies the witness as a member and
shows the appointment of him as a member of the I.P.P., Independ-
ent Progressive Party, State Central Committee, in the year 1952.
Did you occupy that position in the year 1952 ?
Mr. Alexader. I decline to answer that (iiiestion, sir, on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer tlie question, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. On the 25th day of July 1952.
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. I offer in evidence an additional document, it being
a photostatic copy of the appointment of members of the State Cen-
tral Committee in the year 1954 which states tliat Horace V. Alexan-
der, duly qualified as a delegate to the State convention by virtue of
liis nomination to tlie office of secretary of state upon the Independent
Progressive ticket, appoints the following three voters who wnll be
members of the State Central Committee to meet on August 8, 1954;
those persons being Mrs. Cliarlotta A. Bass, Reuben W. Borough, and
Mrs. Ida Alvarez, and bears date the 30th day of July 1954, and ask
that it be marked "Alexander Exhibit No. 6."
The Chairman. It will be marked and received.
(Document marked "Alexander Exhibit No. G" and retained in
connnittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Witness, will you examine the document,
please, and state whether or not the signature appearing thereon is
your genuine signature?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 71
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on grounds
previously stated.
The Chairman. What is the secretary of state? Let me see that,
Mr. Tavenner, please.
Mr. Tavenner. I think he was a candidate for the secretary of
state on the Independent Progressive ticket.
The Chairman. Secretary of state of what ?
Mr. Tavenner. California.
I offer in evidence a thermof ax copy of an excerpt from the Novem-
ber 25, 1949, issue of People's World, entitled, "NAACP Youth Re-
jects Old Fashioned Advice," and ask that it be marked "Alexander
Exhibit No. 7."
The Chairman. It may be so marked.
(Document marked "Alexander Exhibit No. 7," and retained in the
committee files.)
The Chairman. This article discloses that Mr. Alexander was
elected as national vice president of the youth council of the NAACP.
Were you a member of the Communist Party, Mr. Witness, on No-
vember 25, 1949 ?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you serve as national vice president of the
youth council of the NAACP ?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. The March 22, 1955, issue of the People's World, at
page 5, carries an article which is reprinted in Communist Political
Subversion, Part 2, of a committee hearing. According to this article,
Mr. Alexander participated in and spoke before the 5th Annual Con-
ference of the Los Angeles Committee for Protection of Foreign Born.
Do you recall the occasion of having appeared as a speaker before
that group ?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you directed to appear before that group or
coimseled in any way to do so by a unit of the Communist Party or
any functionary of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you familiar with an organization which called
itself the Emergency Free Press Committee ?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question on all the grounds
stated before, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I present you with a photostatic copy of a letter
bearing date of November 1956 addressed to "Dear Friend," and bear-
ing the signature of a number of persons including yourself, and at-
tached to M-liich you will find an appeal or a solicitation for funds to
be paid to Horace Alexander, trustee.
Will you examine it, please, and state whether or not you were one
of those who signed the letter ?
(Document lianded to the witness and his counsel.)
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds previously stated.
72 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask
that it be marked "Alexander Exhibit No. 8."
The Chairman. It will be so marked.
(Document marked "Alexander Exhibit No. 8," and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. TamsjS^ner. Was not the P^mergency Free Press Committee an
organization set up for a brief period of time for the specific purpose
of raising money for the Daily People's World ?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party in No-
vember 1956?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
gromids previously stated.
Mr. Ta\^nner. What position do you hold in the Communist Party
now?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds stated before.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information disclosing that you
are a member at this time of the executive board of the Southern
California District Council of the Communist Party. Is this not a
fact?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it not true that the executive board to which
I have referred is a committee of the Southern California District
Comicil, which council is composed of 62 individuals from southern
California?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds stated before.
Mr. Ta\'ennp:r. Is it not a fact that this executive board is the
controlling body of the Communist Party of the Southern District
of California?
ISIr. Alexander. I decline to answer the question, sir, on the grounds
stated before.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it not also true that the executive board has 10
members?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds stated previously.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Eather I should say only nine members, since Don
^"N^ieeldin resigned on the 26th day of March 1958. Correct ?
Mr. Alexander. Are you asking me a question, sir?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer the question on the grounds
stated previously.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the names of the members of the
executive board ?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
gromids previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether or not
there is a convention of the Southern District of California of the
Communist Party scheduled to be held in October of tliis year, at
which time William Taylor is slated to fill the 10th spot on the
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 73
executive board which lias been made vacant by the resignation
of Don Wheeldin?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds stated previously.
Mr. Tavenner. Which side are you on in the division in the local
Communist Party, the Healey side or the Pettis Perry side ?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds stated before.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you present on the 27tli d-dj of July 1958, at
which time a motion was made to oust Dorothy Healey as chairman
of the Communist Party of this district?
Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds stated before.
]Mr. Tavenner. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Any other witnesses?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
The Chairman. We will recess until what time, t) iHO ?
Mr. Wheeler. 9 :30 will be fine.
(Whereupon, at 4:20 p.m., Tuesday, September 2, the conunittee
recessed, to reconvene at 9 :30 a.m., Wednesday, September 3, 1958.)
THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA DISTRICT OF THE
COMMUNIST PARTY
Structure — Objectives — Leadership
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 3, 1958
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Los Angeles^ Calif.
EXECUTIVE session ^
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities
met, pursuant to recess, at 9 :30 a.m., in room 229, Federal Building,
Los Angeles, Calif., Hon. Francis E. Walter (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Francis E. Walter,
of Pennsylvania, and Morgan M. Moulder, of Missouri.
Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel, and Wil-
liam A. Wlieeler, investigator.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, please. Do you
swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Briggs. I do.
TESTIMONY OF CYRIL VALENTINE BRIGGS, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, BEN MARGOLIS AND FRANK MUNOZ
Mr. Tavenner. Just be seated. Will you state your name, please ?
Mr. Briggs. Cyril Briggs.
Mr. Tavenner. Do jou have a middle name ?
Mr. Briggs. Valentine.
Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please iden-
tify himself for the record ?
Mr. Margolis. Ben Margolis and Frank Munoz, both of 112 West
9th Street, Los Angeles, Calif.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your address, Mr. Briggs ?
Mr. Briggs. Is that pertinent to the inquiry ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, it is necessary for us to properly identify you.
Mr. Briggs. Well, considering that I have spent my life fighting
Jim Crow segregation, I would willingly concede that I am, no doubt,
the Cyril Briggs that this committee has in mind.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question ?
The Chairman. What is your answer ?
Mr. Briggs. Well, I have no objections. 2517 Fairmont Street.
* BeleaBed by the committee and orderedl to be printed.
38253— 59— pt. 1 5 75
76 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Will you please state the date and place of your
birth?
Mr. Briggs. Nevis, British West Indies, May_ 28, 1888.
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did you come to the United States ?
Mr. Briggs. July 4, 1905.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen ?
Mr. Briggs. I am an American by choice, naturalized, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you naturalized ?
Mr. Briggs. New York City, in 1916.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your occupation ?
Mr. Briggs. Publicity.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged in that occu-
pation?
Mr. Briggs. Since 1912, when I joined the staff of the New York
Amsterdam News.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly your formal educational
iraining ?
Mr. Briggs. Well, grade school and grammar school in the West
Indies.
Mr. Moulder. May I inquire, Mr. Chairman, is that a foreign-
language newspaper?
Mr. Tavenner. I will ask him the question.
Is the paper to which you referred a foreign-language newspaper ?
Mr. Briggs. No ; it is a Negro paper and as native
Mr, Tavenner. Wlien did you come to California ?
Mr. Briggs. In 1944.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your employment record in Cali-
fornia since that date ?
Mr. Briggs. I work on the newspaper now, twice a month publica-
tion, and on the California Eagle as managing editor, and I have
worked in construction also.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a. delegate to the Southern California
District convention of the Communist Party held April 13 and 14,
1957?
Mr. Briggs. I don't see what pertinence that question has to me. In
any event, I refuse to answer it on the ground of the first and fifth
amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you at this time a member of the Juarez Club
of the Communist Party of the Southern California District of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. As a matter of fact, weren't you the educational
director of this club as late as 1956 ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
The Chairman. When you say "same answer," I understand you
to mean that you decline to answer on the grounds stated.
Mr. Briggs. Not only that I decline, I refuse to answer it on the
grounds of the first and fifth amendments.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I offer in evidence a thermofax
copy of the September 9, 1956, issue of The Worker and ask that it
be marked "Briggs Exhibit No. 1."
The Chairman. It will be made a part of the record.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 77
(Document marked "Briggs Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Witness, I hand you this exhibit and ask you to
state whether or not you see at the end of it the name of the author
of the article appearing under the title "The American Koad to So-
cialism."
Mr. ]\Iargolis. Is the question whether he can read the name "Cyril
Briggs" there ?
Mr. Tavenner. Read the question.
Mr. Briggs. I can read the name, yes.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Will you read it ?
Mr. Briggs. It says here "Cyril Briggs," yes.
Mr. Tavenner. And what else?
Mr. Briggs. "Educational Director," yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Of what ?
Mr. Briggs. I assume of the
(Counsel conferred with witness.)
Mr. Briggs. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Just keep that a moment.
You have stated that the article bears the name of Cyril Briggs,
educational director. Now didn't you leave off part of the descrip-
tion of the title of the individual ? Will you look at it again and com-
plete the statement which you started ?
Mr. Margolis. There is nothing that appears on here except educa-
tional director.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you read what is immediately above the name
of Cyril Briggs?
Mr. Briggs. I have already told you I could read it and I would sug-
gest that you read it for yourself.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, if you can read it, what is the rest of the sig-
nature to the article ? You have read your name and you have read
educational director. Does not the description of the organization of
which you are the education director also appear ?
Mr. Briggs. I assume that you have seen it, that you can read it,
and I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds as previ-
ously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you compose and write the article appearing
there?
Mr. Briggs. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds as stated.
The Chairman. Mr. Briggs, this is signed "Juarez Club, Los Ange-
les, Calif., Cyril Briggs, Educational Director." Are you the Cyril
Briggs whose name appears on this article ?
Mr. Briggs. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds as stated.
Mr. Tavenner. A subtitle to the article appearing in this exhibit
is "Welcome to Inner-Party Democracy." Reference is then made in
the first paragraph to an expression of "confidence in our national
leadership" and commends that leadership for its "wise policy of
leaving wide open all questions of program and policy pending the
fullest and freest preconvention discussion. This, to us, is a welcome
concrete expression of that inner-party democracy to which most of
our leading cadres, including the national, have much too often in the
past given only lip-service."
As a matter of fact, Mr. Briggs, did not the chairman of the district
organization of California — organization of the Communist Party —
78 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
contend and report at a meeting of that body that there was no inner-
party democracy in the Communist Party at this time ?
Mr. Briggs. I want to say this, that I resent being interrogated by
a committee whose members include out-and-out white supremacists
and people who have been inciting to insurrection in the South against
the Supreme Court's integration mandate, and moreover a committee
that during its 20 years has never once investigated the Ku Klux
Klan.
The Chairman. Let me interrupt at this point. That is not true.
This committee asked the Ku Klux Klan for its first membership and
tliey complied with the request, as I understand it. That is far more
than the Communists would ever do.
Mr. Briggs. Has this committee ever investigated the Southern
White Citizens Committee ?
The Chairman. That is not dominated by Russia, and your organi-
zation is. That is the difference. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question ?
Mr. Briggs, I want to say this, then, that I will have to assume then
that in this committee's opinion lynching Negroes and spitting on
little Negro children is
Mr. Tavenner. You are evading the question.
The Chairman. Just a minute, Mr. Tavenner. I want to get the
record straight. This sort of thing resorted to by Communists hurts
the cause that they say they espouse, because they are not sincere in
the efforts to improve the conditions of the colored people in this
country.
Mr. Briggs. I don't know what Communists or communism have to
do with my position, because this has been my position since 1912
before there was, as I understand it, a Communist Party in the United
States. It will continue to be my position despite any attempt by
this committee to intimidate me.
As to what the Communist Party is doing, I understand that in one
of the hearings of this committee and today, also, by the last speaker,
it is said that the Communist Party is exploiting the Negro people.
I think, gentlemen, that the Negroes would be very glad to accept
such exploitation at the hands of the Republicans.
The Chairman. You hope that they would be ?
Mr. Briggs. I know that they would be very glad to accept any
exploitation that defends their interests.
Mr. Tavenner. Now after having made this voluntary speech at
great length, will you return to the question and answer ?
Mr. Briggs. Which I refuse to answer on the same grounds as
previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. In this article it is stated, "The Juarez Club hails
this democratic approach to the * * * fundamental problems con-
fronting our party." Did you make that statement ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. The article then proceeds to state that the Juarez
Club, recognizing the responsibility that it has upon it, objects to
"bureaucratic centralism." What did you mean by "bureaucratic
centralism?"
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Moulder. May I ask a question, Mr. Briggs ?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 79
Mr. Brigqs. If you please.
Mr. Moulder. Have you ever read the article ?
Mr. Briggs. I object to you calling me Briggs.
The Chairman. He called you Mister.
Mr. Briggs. My mistake, I am sorry. To that question I give the
same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. You wrote the article, didn't you ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Does this statement not contain the assertion that
the Juarez Club
Mr. Briggs. Pardon me ?
Mr. Tavenner. Does not this article state that the Juarez Club
"takes this opportmiity to express its adamant opposition to any and
all ideas and proposals aimed at the liquidation of the Communist
Party" ?
Mr. Briggs. I am willing to accept your statement.
Mr. Tavenner. And did you, through your club, endeavor to
support the Foster group in the Communist Party in its opposition
to any effort to liquidate it ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Does not this article also state that "Our members
are similarly opposed with one exception, to any change of name
for our party" ?
Mr. Briggs. If you say so. I presume it does.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you make that contention through this article?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer on the grounds of the first and fifth
amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Who is the one person, a member of the Juarez
Club, who was in favor of changing the name of the Communist
Party ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that considerable emphasis in this
article is pla<?ed upon an appeal to the membership to "pry our-
selves loose from the Wailing Wall and conscientiously and vigor-
ously carry forward the necessary task of reappraisal and the wiping
out of bureaucracy, sectarianism, doctrinarism — and right oppor-
tunism as well."
Did you use the term "Wailing Wall" in the sense that the Com-
munist Party felt that it was not enthusiastic in its work ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. That it was losing time in discussing and complain-
ing about previous mistakes instead of moving forward ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was this article of yours republished in a publica-
tion entitled "The Party Forum" in its September 10, 1956, issue?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce in evidence a copy of that issue
of The Party Forum and ask that it be marked "Briggs Exhibit
No. 2."
The Chairman. It will be so marked.
(Document marked "Briggs Exhibit No. 2," and retained in
committee files.)
80 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Was not this a Communist intraparty publication ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Was not this paper organized for the purpose of
giving an opportunity to members of the Communist Party to express
their views prior to the Kussian invasion of Hungary?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it now in existence ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. You know it is not ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a delegate to the Los Angeles Comity
Communist Party convention on January 5 and 6, 1957 ?
Mr. Briggs, Same answer on the grounds of the first and fifth
amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you also a delegate to the Southern California
District convention of the Communist Party held April 13 and 14,
1957?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you at this time assig-ned to the Zapata Section
of the Communist Party, Southern District of California ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you, over a long period of time, contributed
articles to various Communist Party organs in the country ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you an issue of the "Labor Defender" of May
1927, carrying an article entitled "Eally Labor for Passaic Strike
Prisoners" by Cyril Briggs. Will you examine it, please, and state
whether or not you prepared that article?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer this in evidence and ask that it be
marked "Briggs Exhibt No. 3."
(Document marked "Briggs Exhibit No. 3" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of the April 28, 1931,
issue of the Daily Worker and call your attention to an article entitled
"Mother of Haywood Patterson Appeals for United Effort To Save
Lives of 9 Scottsboro Boy Victims," by Cyril Briggs, and ask whether
or not you prepared the article appearing there — whether you wrote
the article.
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I offer the document in evidence and ask that it be
marked "Briggs Exhibit No. 4."
The Chairman. It will be so marked.
(Document marked "Briggs Exhibit No. 4," and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a copy of the June 1929 issue of "The
Communist" carrying an article entitled "The Negro Question in the
Southern Textile Strikes," by Cyril Briggs, and ask whether or not
you prepared that article.
Mr. Margolis. 1929?
Mr. Tavenner. Doesn't it say that on the top ?
Mr. Margolis. I was wondering if you had anything earlier.
Mr. Tavenner. We did give you something earlier, 1927.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 81
Mr. Bkiggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. It indicates that you have been in the propaganda
business for some years.
I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask that it be marked
"Briggs Exliibit No. 5."
Tlie Chairman. It will be so marked.
(Document marked "Briggs Exhibit No. 5," and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Briggs. May I ask if you are aware that the propaganda busi-
ness is what the first amendment protests, freedom of speech and
thought ?
Mr. Tavenner. We didn't condemn you for that.
Mr. Briggs. I thank you.
Mr. Tavenner, Did you have any underground assignment from
the Communist Party in 1950 ?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information that you attended
a meeting on July 27, 1958 of the District Council of the Southern
l^istrict of California which was also attended by various function-
aries of the Communist Party, at which time Dorothy Healey made
a minority report criticizing the leadership of the Communist Party
and at which she, in turn, was charged with Titoism and even a resolu-
tion was presented to oust her from leadership in the Communist
Party in this district. Which side of the argument did you take?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you at this time a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Briggs. Same answer on the grounds of the first and fifth
amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. ISIouLDER. I have one or two questions. Do you consider the
Communist Party to be a political party in the sense that political
parties are generally recognized in this country ?
Mr. Briggs. I don't think that I am supposed to express my opinion
here.
Mr. Moulder. From any opportunity that you have had to observe
or as a result of any of your experiences, could you give us that infor-
mation— whether or not the people generally who are associated with
the Communist Party do consider it a political party in the sense that
other political parties are recognized in this country ?
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mr, Briggs, I am not going to discuss the Communist Party here
at this time. If you want to discuss conspiracies, such as are occurring
in the South against the Federal Government and courts, I would be
glad to.
Mr, Moulder, Do you have any knowledge of any conspiracy move-
ment within the Communist Party concerning the Communist Party's
plans to change our form of Government in this country?
Mr, Briggs, The only conspiracy I know of are those of which I
mentioned, including those led by Governor Faubus, including conspir-
acies to prevent Negro children from getting an equal education.
Mr. Moulder. I didn't ask you that question.
82 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Briggs. And conspiracies that nullify and defy the Supreme
Court's mandates.
Mr. Moulder. I didn't ask you that question. I asked you if you had
any knowledge of any such conspiracy within the Communist Party.
Mr. Briggs. I have answered that, that the only conspiracies I am
aware of
Mr. Moulder. Then I interpret your answer to mean that you know
of no such movement w^ithin the Communist Party.
Mr. Briggs. You can interpret it any way you wish to.
Mr. Moulder. Do you know whether or not the Communist Party's
philosophy and objectives are dominated and controlled by the Soviet
Union? I just ask you whether or not you know.
Mr. Briggs. Again I have no opinion to express here on such
questions.
The Chairman. That is all.
Mr. Tavenner. Alexander Ende.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, please? Do you
swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Ende. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ALEXANDER ENDE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
BEN MARGOLIS AND FRANK MUNOZ
Mr. Tavenner. "Will you state your name, please, sir?
Mr. Ende. Alexander Ende.
Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell your last name ?
Mr. Ende. Ende, E-n-d-e.
Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please iden-
tify yourselves for the record ?
Mr. Margolis. Ben Margolis and Frank Munoz.
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live, Mr. Ende ?
Mr. Ende. 10031 Roscoe Boulevard, Sun Valley.
Mr. Tavenner. California ?
Mr. Ende. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is the date and place of your birth ?
Mr. Ende. August 19, 1916, Brooklyn, N.Y.
Mr. Tavenner. '^Vllat is your occupation ?
Mr. Ende. I am an electrician.
Mr, Tavenner. Will you tell the committee briefly what your formal
educational training has been?
Mr. Ende. Public school, high school, several colleges in electrical
wiring over the years, technical courses at different adult training
centers, and so forth and so on.
Mr. Tavenner. "When did you come to California ?
Mr. Ende. 1947.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your record of employment in Cali-
fornia since that date ?
Mr. Ende. I have worked as an electrician since that date.
Mr. Tavenner. As an electrician, are you a member of the Inter-
national Brotherhood of Electrical "\Vorkers ?
Mr. Ende. I must at this point decline to answer this question be-
cause I feel that my organizational associations and ties are not the
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 83
proper concern of this committee, and therefore I decline to answer on
the grounds of protection afforded me under the fifth amendment and
under the first amendment of the Constitution.
The Chairman. Keep your voice up a little bit.
Mr. Tavenner. May I have a direction that the witness answer this
question ?
The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Ende. I must decline to answer this question because I feel that
my organizational associations and ties are not the proper concern of
this committee. I therefore decline to answer on the grounds that it
is not pertinent and on the grounds of the protection afforded me under
the fifth amendment of the Constitution and under the first amend-
ment of the Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. I think probably the direction should be repeated.
The Chairman. Yes. You said you must decline. You are not
under any compulsion. When you say that, I am assuming that you
do decline.
Mr. Ende. I wish to decline ; I do decline, yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you held any office in the International Broth-
erhood of Electrical Workers ?
Mr. Ende. May I consult with my attorney for a while ?
(Witness consults with his counsel.)
Mr. Ende. The same answer as previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you at one time a member of the United Elec-
trical Workers of America ?
Mr. Ende. The same answer as previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Due to your special training in a field of electrical
work, have you received any appointment within the Communist Party
to a position on the Building Trades Section of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Ende. The same answer as previously stated.
_ Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information that you are at this
hme the secretary of the Building Trades Section of the Communist
Party. Is that not correct ?
Mr. Ende. I will repeat and make the same answer that I previously
stated.
Mr. Tavenner. The first convention of the Southern District of the
California Communist Party was held in April of 1957, at which time
there was drafted a trade miion resolution. Are you familiar with
that resolution ?
Mr. Ende. I must decline— I do decline to answer on the same
grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you not, in fact, a member of the Southern
California District Council of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Ende. I decline to answer on the same grounds as previously
stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it not a fact that the district council is composed
of 62 members representing various sections of the Communist Party
in Southern California?
Mr. Ende. The same answer as previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. In 1951 were you a member of the Los Angeles
Negro Labor Council ?
84 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Ende. I refuse to— I decline to answer on the same grounds as
^^Mr^TAVENNER! Are you not still a member of that council?
Mr. Ende. I declme to answer on the same grounds as previously
The Chairman. Wliat council ? ^ , r^ .-,
Mr. Tavenner. The Los Angeles Ne^ro Labor Council.
Did vou receive any assignment within the Communist Party to
engage in Commmiist Party work in the Independent Progressive
\lr. Ende. I declme to answer on the same grounds as previously
Mr Tavenner. And also in the Civil Pvights Congress? ^
Mr. Ende. I declme to answer on the same grounds as previously
of ^ i" p Q •
Mr Tavenner. Were you solicited to unite in a letter of resigna-
tion, i3earing date March 26, 1958, of various members of the Commu-
nist Party of Southern California? .
Mr. Ende. I decline to answer on the same grounds as previously
stated.
Mr. Tavenner. That is all.
The Chairman. Any questions?
Mr. Moulder. Just one question, Mr. Chairman. _
Do you have any knowledge or information concerning the etiorts
on the part of any person under the control of the Soviet Union to
infiltratethiscountry to the cause of communism?
Mr. Ende. Sir, I "have knowledge of no person who is under the
control of the Soviet Union and I have no such knowledge. ^
Mr. Moulder. Have you ever attended Communist Party meetings i
Mr. Ende. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds as previously stated.
The Chairman. That is all.
Mr. Tavenner. Herbert Biskar. .
The Chairman. Will you remain standing, please? Raise your
ri<^ht hand. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. BiSKAR. I do.
TESTIMONY OP HERBERT BISKAR, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
BEN MARGOLIS
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please?
Mr. BiSKAR. Herbert Biskar.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliere do you live?
Mr. Biskar. 411 Palmwood Drive, Los Angeles 8.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ?
Mr. Biskar. I was bom in November of 1933 in Washington, D.C.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your occupation ?
Mr. Biskar. Shipping clerk.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state, please, briefly your formal educa-
tional training?
Mr. Biskar. I have a high school diploma and I have a bachelor
degree, a B.A.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 85
Mr. Tavenner. From what school ?
Mr. BisKAR. I am going to refuse to answer that question.
The Chairman. I direct you to answer this question.
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mr. BiSKAR. I refuse to answer that question on the following
f round : In the first place, I refuse to answer on the first amendment,
consider it to be part of my associations and I think the first amend-
ment protects the right of association, and I guess that also would be
an action that would be the privacy of your associations. I also
claim the privilege of not being a witness against myself, or the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Moulder. Did I understand you to say that you graduated
from college and you received a degree ? You so stated, didn't you ?
Mr. BisKAR. Yes, I did.
Mr. Moulder. You have directed the witness to answer that ques-
tion, have you not?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. You have opened it up by saying that you have re-
ceived such a degree, that you have graduated from college.
Mr. BiSKAR. I don't believe I have opened anything up, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. May the record show a direction after his expla-
nation ?
The Chairman. Yes; I directed him to answer the question as to
where he received the degree that he just stated he had received.
Mr. Margolis. Do you want another response to that direction ?
The Chairman. He has already answered.
Mr. Moulder. As I understand it, the witness still declines to an-
swer the question.
Mr. BisKAR. Yes ; on the previous grounds.
Mr. ISIouLDER. Claiming the first ?
Mr. BiSKAR. First and fifth amendments, and pertinency, too. I
would add that I don't believe that it is pertinent to the purposes of
this committee to find out just where I went to school.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend the Los Angeles State College ?
Mr. BisKAR. I would have to refuse that on the previous grounds ;
that actually is the same question, or very similar.
Mr. Tavenner. May I have a direction to answer ?
The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. BisKAR. I refuse to answer on the previous grounds, that is, the
first amendment, the fifth amendment, pertinency.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you first come to California to make this
the place of your residence ?
Mr. BiSKAR. I came here in 1952.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your record of employment since that
time?
Mr. BiSKAR. Well
( Counsel confers with witness. )
Mr. BiSKAR. I have had a lot of miscellaneous part-time jobs except
for this past year where I have been working as a shipping clerk full
time.
Mr. Tavenner. Very soon after your arrival in Los Angeles did you
become identified with the Labor Youth League in its activities ?
86 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. BisKAR. I will have to refuse to answer on the previous grounds.
Your questioning me on my political affiliations is expressly forbidden
by the first amendment, so I am going to plead that and also my
previous grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. The Labor Youth League has been cited as a Com-
munist organization by Attorney General McGrath in his letter
to the Loyalty Eeview Board released August 30, 1950.
The Chairman. Since recent decisions of the Supreme Court, I do
not think that you can properly invoke the fifth amendment, because
you are not exposing yourself to the danger of any prosecution
criminally. So I direct you to answer that question.
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mr. BiSKAR. I take the same answer that I took before.
The Chairman. In other words, you decline to answer for the rea-
sons that you gave ?
Mr. BisKAR, Eight ; first, fifth, and pertinency.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I offer in evidence a thermof ax copy
of an article appearing in the September 18, 1953, issue of the People's
World, entitled "Weekend INIobilizations in Wells Case." May it be
marked "Herbert Biskar Exhibit No. 1" ?
The Chairman. It will be so marked.
(Document marked "Herbert Biskar Exhibit No. 1," and retained
in committee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Biskar, this article refers to various persons
taking part in the activities indicated by the title, and among them is
the name of Herbert Biskar, Labor Youth League. The name Biskar
is spelled B-i-s-c-a-r, whereas I understand the correct spelling of your
name is B-i-s-k-a-r.
Will you state whether or not your name was accurately reported as
one taking part in the movement indicated ?
Mr. Biskar. B-i-s-c-a-r is not my name, otherwise I refuse to iden-
tify the document or comment further on its accuracy or validity.
Mr. Tavenner. Do I understand you refuse to state whether you
are the Herbert Biscar, member of the Labor Youth League, referred
to in this article ?
Mr. Biskar. I refuse to identify it, yes, on the previous grounds
stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were jou a member of the Labor Youth League on
September 18, 1953?
Mr. Biskar. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on the
18th day of September 1953 ?
Mr. Biskar. I cite my previous grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. The investigation of the committee reflects that on
January 10, 1956, a meeting was held of the Labor Youth League in
Los Angeles and that you were chaimian of the student division of
the Labor Youth League at that time ; is that correct ?
Mr. Biskar. I refuse to answer that on the previously stated
gi'ounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on
January 10, 1956 ?
Mr. Biskar. Same answer.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 87
Mr. Tavenner, Were you present on August 16, 1955, at a meeting
of the Los Angeles County Labor Youth League which was addressed
by Frank Carlson on dialectical materialism ?
Mr. BisKAR. I refuse to answer that on the previous grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on
August 16, 1955?
Mr. BisKAR, Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. The information of the committee is that you were
present at a membership meeting of the Los Angeles County Labor
Youth League held at 3875 City Terrace Drive. This is the address
of the City Terrace Cultural Center. This meeting, according to the
committee's information, was concerned with whether or not to dis-
solve the league, that is, the Labor Youth League; and a vote was
taken on that subject at which it was determined by 27 to 24 not to
dissolve it, thus indicating that there were at least 51 persons present
at that league meeting.
Will you tell us whether that vote was correctly stated ?
Mr. BiSKAR. I don't think I am going to comment on the accuracy of
your informers.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat informers do you refer to ?
Mr. BisKAR. I don't want to comment on the accuracy of any in-
formers of any of these things that you have stated previously. So I
am going to refuse to answer that question.
The Chairman. Where did you get the idea that there were any in-
formers ?
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mr. Biskar. I assume that you probably didn't make it up out of
your own minds.
The Chairman. In other words, the question that was asked indi-
cates to you pretty definitely that we had some information on which
you could throw some light ?
Mr. BiSKAR. But not necessarily that the information is true.
The Chairman. That is right.
Mr. BisKAR. I assume that you didn't make it up.
The Chairman. That is right. Well, I will set your mind
Mr. BisKAR. Most informers do lie.
The Chairman. I will set your mind at rest on that. The basis of
this question was not made up.
Mr. Tavenner. Is the committee's information correct that you
were present at this meeting?
Mr. Biskar. I refuse to answer that question on the previously
stated grounds. All people know that professional informers do
not tell the truth.
The Chairman. Why do you mention professional informers or
informers? We haven't said anything about any informers. Why
do you talk about informers?
Mr. Biskar. Well, anyone that would work for this committee or
for a report on activities of various organizations and people I as-
sume to be professional. They are being paid.
The Chairman. Where do you get any idea that there has been
anyone furnishing this committee or any of its staff with informa-
tion?
(Counsel confers with witness.)
88 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. BiSKAR. I stated before that I assumed it wasn't made up,
so
The Chairman. Wait a mmute. Let me go one step further.
You say it was not made up ?
Mr. BisKAR. I assume that it wasn't made up.
Mr. Tavenner. And that any informer's information is not cor-
rect ? Now tell us, was this correct — the basis of this question correct?
Mr. BisKAR. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Isn't it a fact that at one meeting it was decided
that the successor organization to the Labor Youth League in this
area should be the Los Angeles County Progressive Youth League?
Mr. Biskar. I refuse to answer that question on the previously
stated grounds, the first amendment, the fifth, and pertinency.
Mr. Tavenner. In fact, the Labor Youth League was disbanded
not very long after that ; isn't that true ?
Mr. Biskar. I refuse to answer that on previously stated grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. What organization is the successor to that league?
Mr. Biskar. I refuse to answer that on the previously stated
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. At a meeting held on December 11, 1956, of the
Labor Youth League, did you not contend publicly for the exercise
of greater discipline over the members ?
Mr. Biskar. I refuse to answer that question on the previously
stated grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you participate in the Southern California
District convention of the Communist Paxty held on April 13 and 14,
1957, in Los Angeles?
Mr. Biskar. Same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. At that time did you receive and consider the re-
port of Dorothy Healey relating in part to the youth organizations
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Biskar. Same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Did not the youth program announced by Dorothy
Healey include special activities aimed at college youth ?
Mr. Biskar. I refuse to answer that on the previously stated
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Do not the plans of the Communist Party con-
template the establishment of a new youth organization in southern
California and other areas of the country under the special direction
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Biskar. I refuse to answer that question on the previous
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Aren't you one of the leading organizers of youth
in the Communist Party in southern California ?
Mr. Biskar. I refuse to answer that on the previously stated
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. You state that you
Mr. Biskar. Go ahead. Never mind, go ahead.
Mr. Tavenner. I don't want to interrupt you.
Mr. Biskar. That is all right.
Mr. Tavenner. You stated that your work is that of a shipping
clerk. Is that in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Biskar. Yes ; it is.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 89
Mr. Tavenner. Does your work take you outside of the city of
Los Angeles ?
Mr. BisKAR. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Any questions?
Mr. Moulder. You have refused to answer certain questions deal-
ing with Communist Party activities in the State of California, as I
understand you, on the grounds that it concerns your political affilia-
tions and associations, political beliefs and associations; is that
correct ?
Mr. BisKAR. That is one of my reasons.
Mr. Moulder. That is one of your reasons ?
Mr. BiSKAR. Eight.
Mr. Moulder. Now, what is your reaction to this question? Do
you approve of the Soviet Union Communist movement internation-
ally?
Mr. BisKAR. Is that the question ?
Mr. Moulder. Do you approve of the movement on the part of
the Soviet Union to dominate the world internationally through
communism ? That has nothing whatsoever to do with political affilia-
tion in this country.
Mr. BisKAR. Actually it doesn't have anything to do with political
affiliation necessarily, but it does have to do with part of the first
amendment thereto because it is part of free speech, political opinion ;
and whether I do or not, I don't think it is necessary for me to say.
So I will refuse to answer that question on the previously stated
grounds.
Mr. Moulder. Then in view of your response to that question, I will
ask this question : Would you render aid and assistance to the
Soviet Union in its efforts to dominate our Government and our
American form of Government as we know it in this country through
the Communist Party internationally?
Mr. BiSKAR. It is true that I don't accept all of your assumptions,
so it is very difficult for me to answer that question. So I will just
have to refuse to answer on the previously stated grounds.
Mr. Moulder. Then I will ask this question : "Would you render
assistance in any form to the Soviet Union in its efforts to dominate
and control this country through communism?
Mr. BiSKAR. It appears to me, sir, that that is the same question
just worded differently, so I have to refuse to answer that on the
previously stated grounds.
Mr. Moulder. Then my closing question is this : You are a young
man. Would you take every step possible to avoid military service
in the event of a conflict with the Soviet Union ?
Mr. BisKAR. No, I wouldn't.
Mr. Moulder. Do I understand you to say then that you would
fight for your country in the event of a conflict with the Soviet
Union ?
Mr. Biskar. Yes, I would.
Mr. Moulder. That is all.
The Chairman. All right, sir. We will have a break of 5 minutes;
(Committee members present:. BeprQsentatiyes Walter and;
Moulder.)
90 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
(Brief recess.)
(Committee members present: Representatives Walter and
Moulder.)
Mr. Tavenner. Marvin Biskar.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand please? Do you
swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Biskar. I do.
TESTIMONY OP MARVIN BISKAR, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
BEN MARGOLIS
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please ?
Mr. Biskar, Marvin Biskar.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that the witness is accompanied by Mr.
Ben Margolis, a member of the Los Angeles Bar.
Will you state your place of residence, please ?
Mr. Biskar. I don't think it is pertinent. I decline to answer the
question.
Mr. Ta^^nner. Do you reside at 4034 West Boulevard ?
Mr. Biskar. That is the correct address, yes.
The Chairman. "Wliat was that answer ?
(The reporter read from her notes as requested.)
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born ?
Mr. Biskar. Washington, D.C., April i7, 1927.
Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat is your ocupation ?
Mr. Biskar. I decline to answer that question. I don't think it is
pertinent to the investigation.
The Chairman. You are directed to answer that question.
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mr. Biskar. I would like to refuse on grounds of pertinency, the
basis of the first amendment, and also on the basis of the fifth
amendment.
The Chairman. When you say you would like to, you mean you
do?
Mr. Biskar. I do de<iline.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it not a fact that you are a worker in the sheet
metal industry?
Mr. Biskar. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated,
Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to the State of California to
make it the place of your residence ?
Mr, Biskar. I decline on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your formal educational training?
Mr. Biskar. I decline to answer that question.
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mr, Margolis. Just one second.
Mr. Biskar. Would you mean how far I went in my education ?
Mr. Tavenner. I just wanted to know of what your educational
training consisted.
Mr, Biskar. I have been through 3i^ years of college, university.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliere?
Mr. Biskar. I decline to answer that question,
Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't it in Washington, D,C, ?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 91
Mr. BiSKAR. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Is your refusal to answer that question based upon
a contention that the answer might tend to incriminate you ?
Mr. BiSKAR. Well, I decline on tlie grounds previously stated, which
include the grounds of basis of self-incrimination, which could open
me up to prosecution. That is true.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you honestly feel that a truthful reply to that
question might tend to incriminate you?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. BiSKAR. I feel that, in the atmosphere of this committee, that is
quite possible. I don't feel that the committee is honestly seeking
legislative information but has a certain malicious intent. And I
am quite, quite possibly open to prosecution, although innocent.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I think, in the light of the witness'
refusal to answer questions of this character, I may just as well at
this point read into the record the testimony of Mary Markward be-
fore this committee on June 11, 1951, in Washington, D.C. You will
recall Mary Markward as the person who, at the instance of the Fed-
eral Bureau of Investigation, became a member of the Communist
Party and rose to the position of treasurer of the Communist Party
comprising the city of Washington and the State of Maryland, and
part of Virginia.
This question was asked by Mr. Owens :
Next, we come to the Students Club. Can you identify for the committee
individuals whom you knew to be members of the Communist Party of the
District of Columbia assigned to the Students Club, breaking it down into
schools where the students were in attendance, if you can?
Mrs. Markward. The students principally came from Howard University and
George Washington University. I think a little history of the Students Club
would clarify the situation for the committee's information. Frances Crystal in
1945 was a student on the George Washington University campus, and I believe
on her own initiative had organized a group of students in what was called at
the time the Young Citizens' League. From this group they organized a Marxist
study class. From this Marxist study class which was taught by members of the
leadership of the Communist Party, members were recruited. Among these were
Howard Phillips and Robert Phillips.
I might mention that it was prior to this time that Frances Crystal had trans-
ferred to our party here. I believe she came from one of the other organizations
in Washington, the underground organization, I believe. Just about this time
a number of veterans who had either been Young Communist League members
or Communist Party members before their period in the service, returned and
went to school and became members of this club. Bernie Cristopher Campbell
was one of these.
Moe Falk was a member. He was transferred in from one of the New Eng-
land States at a later date.
Chester Kurrier was transferred from one of the New England States. He was
already a party member.
These veterans were active in veterans' organizations and were able to recruit
a number of other members. I am not certain who was the initial contact on
the campus at Howard University.
Mr. Owens. Before we leave this other group, the group you have just iden-
tified were all students at George Washington University?
Mrs. Markward. Except Chet Kurrier. He went to King-Smith Art School.
Mr. Owens. Were there any others in attendance at George Washington
University?
Mrs. Markward. Marvin Biskar ; Eddie Majchrzyk ; Morty Goldstein, a girl
who married Marvin Biskar, her name was Galpert, I believe Ida Galpert.
Mr. Owens. Mrs. Markward, these individuals whom you have identified at
George Washington University, to the best of your knowledge are most of them
still in Washington, or have they left the city of Washington?
38253— 59— pt. 1 6
92 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
That apparently is not answered. I am not going to ask you any
question relating to Ida Galpert; but other than the matter contained
herein relating to Ida Galpert, is there any statement that I read to
you from the testimony of Mrs. Markward which is untrue?
Mr. BisKAR. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend George Washington University?
Mr. BiSKAR. I decline for the same reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party while
on the campus at George Washington University?
Mr. BisKAR. I decline on the same grounds.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Haven't you been continuously engaged in Com-
munist Party activities among youth since arriving in California?
Mr. BiSKAR. I decline on the same grounds.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at
the time you came to Los Angeles ?
Mr. BisKAR. That is the same question, but I decline on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information that on January 4,
1957, you attended the Los Angeles County Labor Youth League
meeting at 3875 City Terrace, at which time the election of officers of
the Labor Youth League took place. Were j-ou elected an officer on
that occasion ?
Mr. Biskar. I decline on the same grounds previously stated.
Mr. Taa^nner. The committee also is informed that on January 5,
and 6, 1957, you were a delegate to the Los Angeles County Commu-
nist Party convention. Is that correct ?
Mr. Biskar. I decline on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you also attend the first district convention for
the Southern District of California on April 13 and 14, 1957?
Mr. Biskar. The first district convention of what, sir ?
Mr. Tavenner. Of the Communist Party of the district for the
Southern District of California.
Mr. Biskar. I decline on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether you
have studied the report made by Dorothy Healey on April 13 and 14,
1957, regarding the plans of the Communist Party with regard to
youth ?
Mr. Biskar. I decline as previously stated.
Mr. TA^^NNER. '^^Hiat work is being performed now in the Com-
munist Party in the youth movement in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Biskar. I decline as previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Maybe he could throw some light on this move to
oust Mrs. Healey.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Are you aware of the motion that was made
on the floor at the meeting held on July 27, 1958, of the District Coun-
cil of the Communist Party for the Southern District of California
to oust Dorothy Healey from leadership in the Communist Party ?
Mr. Biskar. I decline on the grounds previously stated.
The Chairman. When was that motion made, Mr. Tavenner?
Mr. Tavenner. July 27, 1958.
The Chairman. That was made at this closed party meeting?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 93
Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; at a meeting of the district council, at which
time Dorothy Healey made a minority report regarding the June 28
meeting of the National Committee of the Communist Party.
Were you present ?
Mr. BiSKAR. I decline to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I do not think the witness was present.
The Chairman. Any questions, Mr. Moulder ?
Mr. Moulder. What was the name of the witness previous to this
one?
Mr. Tavenner. Herbert Biskar.
Mr. Moulder. Are you the brother of Herbert Biskar ?
(Witness confers with counsel. )
Mr. Biskar. I decline on grounds previously stated.
Mr. Moulder. You mean to decline to answer the question of wheth-
er or not Herbert is your brother ?
Mr. Biskar. It is not such an innocent question. Many questions
have intent to open prosecution. Even though I am innocent and I
decline to answer questions.
Mr. Moulder. You say you resided in Washington, D.C., up until
what date ?
Mr. Biskar. I just stated that I was born in Washington, D.C.
Mr. Moulder. When did you leave Washington, D.C. ?
Mr. Biskar. I declined to answer that question previously.
Mr. Moulder. What caused you to come to California ?
Mr. Biskar. Climate, like many Southern Californians.
Mr. Moulder. Were you a student at the time you came to Cali-
fornia ?
Mr. Biskar. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Moulder. Did anyone connected with the Communist Party
movement in California solicit your moving to California ?
Mr. Biskar. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Moulder. Do you consider being a member of the Communist
Party to be an act of disloyalty to our country ?
Mr. Biskar. I decline to answer that question.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Mr. Tavenner. Sophie Kishner.
The Chairman. Will you stand up, please, and raise your right
hand? Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mrs. Kishner. I do.
TESTIMONY OF SOPHIE KISHNER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
DAN MARSHALL
Mr. Tavenner. Would you state your name, please ?
Mrs. Kishner. My name is Sophie Kishner.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name ?
Mrs. Kishner. K-i-s-h-n-e-r.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that Mrs. Kishner is accompanied by
Mr. Dan Marshall, a member of the Los Angeles Bar.
Where do you reside ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
94 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mrs. KiSHNER. I decline to answer this question on the following
ground : The 1st amendment of the Bill of Rights, the 4th amendment
of the Bill of Rights, the 5th amendment of the Bill of Rights, the 6th
amendment of the Bill of Rights, the 9th amendment of the Bill of
Rights, and the 10th amendment of the Bill of Rights, and the lack of
pertinency.
Mr. Marshall. Will it be understood that, in the event of any fur-
ther questions being asked the witness to which she wishes to decline
to answer, her declination will have been deemed to be made upon all
the grounds she has so stated ?
The Chairman. That will be understood ; that any declination will
be based on those grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. In relying on the fifth amendment as a ground for
your refusal to answer, are you relying upon that part of the fifth
amendment which relates to the use of testimony against yourself ?
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mrs. KisHNER. I will decline to answer by the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you of the opinion that to answer the question
truthfully might tend to incriminate you ?
Mrs. KiSHNER. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I ask, Mr. Chairman, that she be directed to answer
the question.
The Chairman. She is directed to answer the question.
Mr. Marshall. May we have the question read now ?
The Chairman. Read the question.
(The reporter read the record as requested.)
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Marshall. Would you care to amend that question by adding
"or tend to expose you to prosecution" ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mrs. Kjshner. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. "What is your occupation ?
Mrs. Kishner. I decline to answer on the previously stated reasons.
Mr. Marshall. Just a moment, Mr. Tavenner.
You have to keep your voice up so the reporter can hear you.
Mr. TA^^NNER. Where were you born ?
Mrs. Kishner. I decline to answer for the same reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. Is Sophie Kishner your married name ?
Mrs. Kishner. I decline to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time lived under another name?
Mrs. Kishner. I decline to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee's investigation has disclosed that
you have expressed dissatisfaction with the current operations of the
Communist Party and that in fact you signed a letter of grievances
on December 14, 1957, addressed to the National Committee of the
Communist Party on that subject. Did you sign the letter using only
your first name?
Mrs. Kishner. I decline to answer this question, sir, on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you honestly contend and believe that to admit
the signing of a letter of grievances addressed to the Communist
Party of the United States would tend to incriminate you ?
Mrs. Kishner. I will decline to answer that question.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 95
Mr. Tavenner. The letter of December 14, 1957, to which I have
referred is Healey Exhibit No. 22. In this letter is found a recom-
mendation that the present structure of the party be made more
flexible so that membership in the present type of party club is not
necessarily a requirement for adherence to the organization. What
is your understanding of the meaning of that ?
Mrs. KiSHNER. I declme to answer, sir, on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the meaning?
Mrs. KiSHNER. I decline to answer, sir, on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with the fact that at a subse-
quent date Dorothy Healey attempted to answer this letter of griev-
ances ?
Mrs. KiSHNER. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you not also aware of the fact that, after she
attempted to answer the grievances, a number of the members of the
Communist Party in the Southern District of California wrote a letter
of resignation bearing date of March 26, 1958?
Mrs. KiSHNER. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner, Did you, although not a signer of that letter of
resignation, nevertheless express agreement with it?
Mrs. KisHNER. No.
Mr. Tavenner, And follow it by your own resignation from the
Communist Party ?
Mrs. KiSHNER, I decline to answer this question also on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. You are honestly of the opinion that to admit now
that you have resigned from the Communist Party might tend to
incriminate you ?
Mrs. KiSHNER. I will have to decline to answer that question, too,
sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us to what extent Dorothy Healey
herself participated in the preparation of the letter of December 14,
1957, constituting a statement of grievances ?
Mrs. KiSHNER. I am going to decline to answer on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. How could it possibly incriminate you? We are
asking about what part she played in it.
Mrs, KisiiNER. I am going to decline to answer, sir, on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Any questions, Mr. Moulder?
Mr. Moulder. I have one question, Mr. Chairman.
You refused to answer any and all questions propounded to you
by counsel for the committee. If you had any information on sub-
versive activities or acts of treason or disloyalty within the Commu-
nist Party, would you inform this committee ?
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mrs. KiSHNER. I decline to answer this question.
The Chairman. That is all.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like the witness to return to the stand,
please.
The Chairman, Mr. Marshall, we would like to ask one more
question.
96 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. The committee's investigation has disclosed that
you, as a matter of fact, resigned from the Communist Party in
March of 1958. Is that true?
Mrs. KiSHNER. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Is not your real reason for refusing to answer any
questions about your resignation from the Communist Party due to
the fact that you and others who have withdrawn from the Commu-
nist Party still support the Communist Party in its objectives and,
for all intents and purposes, you are still members though not mem-
bers organizationally speaking ?
Mrs. Kishner. I am going to have to decline to answer that on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr, Tavenner. I have no further questions.
The Chairman. Will you raise your ri^ht hand, please? Do you
swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Solomon. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH SOLOMON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
AL WIRIN
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please?
Mr. Solomon. Joseph Solomon.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliere do you live?
Mr. Solomon. 1333 Bates Avenue.
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born ?
Mr. Solomon. August 26, 1913.
Mr. Tavenner. Where?
Mr. Solomon. San Diego.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your occupation ?
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer that on the basis of the first and
the fifth and I don't think it is pertinent.
Mr. Tavenner. ^Vlien you say you base your declination on the
fifth amendment, do you mean that provision of the fifth amendment
relating to self-incrimination ?
Mr. Solomon. Yes, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Do you honestly believe in good faith that to answer
that question might tend to incriminate you ?
Mr. Solomon. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Aren't you engaged in work with the Griswold
Duplicating Products, Inc., at 1820 Beverly Boulevard?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer on the previous grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Solomon, the committee's investigation has dis-
closed that you resigned from the Communist Party in the middle of
1957 or that you were relieved of your Communist Party duties at
that time. Wliich is correct ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you relieved of actual membership at the
instance^ of the Communist Party because of other duties that you
were assigned to by the Communist Party ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds
previously stated.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 97
Mr. Tavenner. Were you assigned by the Communist Party to
work of a political character?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds
as previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you honestly believe that to answer that ques-
tion would tend to incriminate you?
Mr. Solomon, Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you at the present time under Communist Party
discipline?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds,
first and fifth.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee's investigation also discloses that
you were at one time active within the Independent Progressive
Party of California.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state whether or not that activity on your
part was instigated, suggested, or directed by the Communist Party ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer the question on tlie same grounds
as previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, as a matter of fact, you were active in the
work of the Independent Progressive Party, were you not ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I offer in evidence a photostatic
copy of an Appointment of Members of the State Central Committee
for the year 1954 and ask that it be marked "Solomon Exhibit No. 1."
The Chairman. Make it a part of the record.
(Document marked "Solomon Exhibit No. 1," and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine this exhibit, please, and state
whether or not the first person mentioned as an appointee to the State
Central Committee as of August 8, 1954, is Joseph Solomon ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer this question on the same grounds
as previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you the Joseph Solomon mentioned as the first
appointee on this exhibit?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. I also offer in evidence an additional photostatic
copy of an Appointment of Members of the State Central Committee
for the year 1952, tliat is of the Independent Progressive Party. This
relates to the appointment of three other persons but it purports to
have been signed by Joseph Solomon as a qualified delegate to the
State Convention for that year. May it be marked "Solomon Exhibit
No. 2."
Will you examine it, please, and state whether or not the signature
is your genuine signature ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. May it be received in evidence ?
The Chairman. Make it a part of the record.
(Document marked "Solomon Exhibit No. 2," and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. I also have a third document to offer in evidence
and ask that it be marked "Solomon Exhibit No. 3." It is a photo-
98 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
static copy of Appointment of Membei-s of the State Central Com-
mittee of the Independent Progi'essive Party for the year 1950.
The Chairman. Make it a part of the record.
(Document marked "Solomon Exhibit No. 3," and retained in com-
mittee files. )
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Solomon, will you look at the second name ap-
pearing as an appointee for that year and state whose name it is ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you not appointed to the State Central Com-
mittee for the year 1950 ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer the question, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Where did you reside in 1945 ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer the question, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. In 1945 were you a member of the San Pedro Club
of the Communist Political Association ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer the question.
Mr. Moulder. May I interrupt, Mr. Chairman, at that point?
You refuse to answer that question on the same grovuids you used
previously ?
Mr. Solomon. Same grounds, yes.
Mr. Moulder. Also, Mr. Tavenner asked you if you honestly be-
lieved that a truthful answer to the question mig'ht tend to incrimi-
nate you. You said "yes." Do you believe that if you honestly
answered the question just propomided it might tend to incriminate
you?
Mr. Solomon. Yes, sir.
Mr, Moulder. While a member of that club, did you ever commit
a crime or any act of treason or disloyalty to our country ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer that question, sir. Same grounds
as previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. After the so-called reconstruction of the Commu-
nist Party in 1946, did you become a member of the Communist Party
in San Pedro ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds
as previously stated, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I offer in evidence, and ask that it be marked "Solo-
mon Exhibit No. 4," a thermof ax copy of an article appearing in the
May 10, 1946, issue of People's World, entitled "Negro Girl De-
fended— Communist Group Pulls Cover Off of Bus Driver's Charges."
May it be received in evidence ?
The Chairman. Let it be received.
(Document marked "Solomon Exhibit No. 4," and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. The last paragraph of this article reads as follows :
On the Communist committee are Morel, Robert Levlne, Steve Edney, William
Wright, Helen Robello and Joseph Solomon.
Is the identification of Joseph Solomon a correct identification
of you ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the same
grounds as previously stated.
The Chairman. Let me see that.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 99
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the committee of the Com-
munist Party on the date indicated?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer again on the same basis.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it not true that as late as May 1956 you were
section organizer of the Eastern Division of the Los Angeles County
Communist Party ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer that question on the same gromids
as previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. As indicated in my earlier question, there was some
uncertainty as to whether you resigned from the Communist Party or
whether you were assigned some particular activity and that your
name should be dropi^ed as an organizational member of the Com-
munist Party. So let me ask you this question : Are you now a mem-
ber of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer the question, sir, on the same
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time gone through the formality
of resigning from the Communist Party ?
Mr. Solomon. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Moulder. Were you ever a member of the U.S. Armed Forces ?
Mr. Solomon. No, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Were you subject to military service call during the
last war?
Mr. Solomon. You mean was I classified, and so forth ?
Mr. Moulder. Yes.
Mr. Solomon. Yes; I was subject.
Mr. Moulder. What was your classification ?
Mr. Solomon. I believe it was III-A.
Mr. Moulder. You were how old at the time ?
Mr. Solomon. Which year are you referring to now ?
Mr. Moulder. 1942.
Mr. Solomon. 1942, that is 16 years ago. 29.
Mr. Moulder. That is all.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, please? Do you
swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mrs. BiBER. I do.
TESTIMONY OF STELLA CHOYKE BIBER, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LOREN MILLER
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please ?
Mrs. Biber. My name is Stella Biber.
Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell your last name ?
Mrs. Biber. B-i-b-e-r.
Mr. Tavenner, Do you have a middle initial ?
Mrs. Biber. Sometimes I use the initial "C."
Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Miller. My name is Loren Miller.
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born ?
Mrs. Biber. I was born in New York City, September 11, 1902.
100 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did you come to California to make it the
place of your residence?
Mrs. BiBER. About 15 years ago.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your occupation?
Mrs. Biber. I am a bookkeeper.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you please tell the committee what your tormal
educational training has been? -,. • >t a^ i n-4. f:
Mrs Biber. Grammar school— it was all m New lork Oity, ot
course— and Julia Kichman High School, and I went to New York
University where I studied accounting and business administration.
Mr. Tavenner. You say you are presently engaged as a bookkeeper (
Mrs. Biber. That is tme. . . i i
Mr. Tavenner. Over how long a period of time have you been so
employed? , , ^ , ^ .^
Mrs Biber. Oh, I have been a bookkeeper for almost 40 years. _
Mr. Tavenner. That has been your constant work since being in
California?
Mrs. Biber. Yes ; also since I was 16 years ot age.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time engaged m any other occupa-
tion besides that of a bookkeeper?
Mrs. Biber. No. , . .. ^ ,. ,
Mr. Tavenner. The committee's investigation indicates that you
were an organizational secretary of the 62d Assembly District of the
Communist Party in 1951. Is that correct ?
Mrs. Biber. Well, I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliy ? ^ , . ^ . i
Mrs. Biber. Under— well, first, I claim the hrst amendment to the
Constitution, and I wish to invoke the fifth amendment of the Con-
stitution of the United States. .
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been assigned by the Com-
munist Party to become active in the Independent Progressive Party
of California ? ,. , •
Mrs. Biber. I decline to answer that question for the reason previ-
ously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, you have been active m that work, have you
not?
Mrs. Biber. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer in evidence a photostatic copy ot
a petition of the Independent Progressive Party to participate in the
primary election of June 1, 1948, to wliich there is attached an affidavit
over the signature of a Stella C. Biber. I desire to offer it m evidence
and ask that it be marked "Biber Exhibit No. 1."
The Chairman. Make it a part of the record.
(Document marked "Biber Exhibit No. 1" and retained m committee
files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine it, please, and state wliether or
not there is an affidavit at the end of that petition stating that you
circulated and obtained the signatures of the persons appearing
above ?
Mrs. Biber. I decline to answer the question for the reasons pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Is the signature appearing at the bottom ot the
petition your signature?
COAIMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 101
Mrs. BiBER. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been assigned by the Com-
munist Party to work in the Los Angeles Negro Labor Council ?
Mrs. BiBER. I decline to answer that question and invoke the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Moulder. Do you honestly believe that the truthful answer
to that question would tend to incriminate you ?
Mrs. BiBER. Well, that is my answer. I claim the privilege of the
first amendment, which deals with right of association, and also the
privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Moulder. Do you believe that to tell whether or not you are
a member of a Negro Labor Council might tend to incriminate you to
the extent that you would be subjected to prosecution ?
Mrs. BiBER. I have given my answer.
Mr. Moulder. You haven't answered my question. I just asked
you a question.
Mrs. BiBER. I have no other answer.
Mr. TA^^3NNER. I failed to ask you, is the name Stella C. Biber your
maiden name or your married name ?
Mrs. Biber. That is my married name.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your maiden name?
Mrs. Biber. Stella Choyke. That is where the C comes from.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the executive board of the
Wiggins Club of the Communist Party of Los Angeles in 1949 ?
Mrs. Biber. I decline to answer for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Ta\'enner. There was a convention— in fact the organization
convention— of the Southern District of the California Communist
Party held in Los Angeles on April 13 and 14, 1957, which was ad-
dressed at that time by the chairman of this district, Dorothy Healey.
Our information is that you were a delegate to that convention, is
that correct?
Mrs. Biber. I decline to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend the convention ?
Mrs. Biber. I decline to answer for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. You are acquainted with the character of the
report that she made, are you not ?
Mrs. Biber. I decline to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you a little about it. She reported the
decision of the National Committee of the Communist Party, support-
ing the Soviet use of armed forces in Himgary. Did you at any time
remonstrate against that?
Mrs. Biber. I decline to answer that question for the reasons pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time support, directly or in-
directly, the Communist Party in its support of the Soviet Union's
action in Hungary ?
Mrs. Biber. I decline to answer that question for the reasons pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. You are aware of the great division of opinion
among the members of the District Council of the Southern District
of California regarding the execution of Nagy; are you not?
Mrs. Biber. I decline to answer that question.
102 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Were you present at a meeting held on July 27,
1958, of the District Council of the Commimis*^ ^arty for the Southern
District of California?
Mrs. BiBER. I decline to answer that question for the reasons pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Ta\^nner. It is not our information that you were present,
but I thought if you happened to be and we missed it in some way,
you might enlighten us on the subject.
Mrs. Biber. I would be glad to be helpful to you, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Then, let me ask you what the plans of the Com-
munist Party are regarding Dorothy Healey's retention as the leader
of the Communist Party in this area? Now you can be helpful.
Mrs. Biber. That is"^quite a question. I decline to answer that
question.
Mr. Tavenner. You are very helpful. That is all.
The Chairman. No further questions. We will recess imtil 2
o'clock.
(Members present: Representatives Walter and Moulder.)
(Whereupon, at 12:05 p.m., Wednesday, September 3, 1958, the
committee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. of the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION— WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 3, 1958
The hearing was resumed at 2 :20 p.m., pui*suant to the recess.
(Committee members present: Representatives Walter and
Moulder.)
The Chairman. The hearing will be in order.
Will you raise your right hand, please ?
Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Gavron. I do.
The Chairman. Sit down.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH I. GAVRON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
ROBERT J. SCHMORLEITZ
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please, sir ?
Mr. Gavron. Joseph I. Gavron.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name ?
Mr. Gavron. G-a-v-r-o-n.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noticed that the witness is accompanied by
counsel. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Schmorleitz. Robert J. Schmorleitz, member of the California
Bar, offices at 11108 Houston Street, North Hollywood.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Where do you reside, Mr. Gavron ?
Mr. Gavron. In Sun Valley.
Mr. Ta\^nner. What is the address ?
Mr. Gavron. 10447 Lanark Street.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you bom ?
Mr. Ga^tion. I w^as born in Perth Amboy, N. J., in 1920, November 1.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you first come to California to make it
the place of your permanent residence, if it is the place of your
permanent residence ?
Mr. Gavron. In 1946.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 103
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your occupation ?
Mr. Gavron. I am a salesman.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, briefly, what your
formal educational training has been ?
Mr. Gavron. Well, I went to elementary school, then to junior high,
and was graduated from high school in 1937 ; and I went for a period
of 314 years to a number of junior colleges in the evening. That is
the extent of my formal education.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat has been your record of employment in Cali-
fornia since your arrival in 1946 ?
Mr. Gavron. I have always been a salesman.
Mr. Tavenner. Salesman in what type of work ?
Mr. Gavron. In general food industry.
Mr. Tavenner. Does this carry you outside of the corporate limits
of Los Angeles ?
(Witness confers with counsel. )
Mr. Gavron. May I ask, sir, the pertinency of that question, the
pertinency of that question relative to the committee hearing?
Mr. Tavenner. The pertinency of that question is that the com-
mittee desires to know to what extent you have been available in the
Southern District of California for carrying on presently the work
of the Communist Party in this area; and the fact that your duties
confine you to the city of Los Angeles or whether it is over a broader
area is certainly pertinent in following the committee's investiga-
tion of the present activities and purposes of the present activities
of the Communist Party in this area,
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Gavron. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question
on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments and also on the
grounds of pertinency.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you relying on that part of the fifth amend-
ment which has to do with the giving of testimony against yourself
or the self-incrimination section of the fifth amendment ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Gavron. I am relying on the entire fifth amendment, which
includes, of course, the section that you just stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you honestly apprehend that a truthful an-
swer to the question I asked you would tend to incriminate you ?
Mr. Gavron. Sir, I have already given my answer to that ques-
tion.
The Chairman, You have not answered this question. Answer
the question.
Mr, Gavron. I answer the question, sir, on the same grounds that
I have previously stated.
The Chairman. In other words, you refuse to answer the question
on the grounds that you have stated ?
Mr. Gavron. That is correct, sir.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Tavenner. I think, Mr. Chairman, in light of the witness' re-
fusal to answer a plain question which is addressed to the real motive
of his refusal to answer, that he should be directed to answer.
The Chairman. I have directed him to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. You understand you have been directed to answer
the question ?
104 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Gaveoivt. For the record, I have refused to answer the question
on the grounds that I have previously stated, based on the first and
fifth amendments of the Constitution, and I refuse to answer this
question on the same gi'ounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gavron, during the course of this hearing and
the investigation made by the committee prior to the hearing, it has
been ascertained that a new organizational setup has been made for
the Communist Party in the State of California. The State of Cali-
fornia has now been divided into two districts, one being the South-
ern District of the Communist Party of California, which we un-
derstand has a district council composed of 62 members.
Are you a member of that council ?
Mr. Gavron. I respectfully, sir, refuse to answer the question on
the grounds of the first amendment to the Constitution, supplemented
by the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee understands that the first organiza-
tional meeting of the newly established district occurred on April 13
and 14, 1957, and at this meeting the chairman of this district, Doro-
thy Healey, made a rather extended report on trade union matters,
the Jewish question, the People's World, and numerous other sub-
jects. Among the items covered by her report was a section relating
to youth.
Have you been particularly interested in Communist Party ac-
tivities within youth groups ?
Mr. Gavron. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question on
the grounds of the first amendment and the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you read the section of Dorothy Healey's
report on youth ?
Mr. Gavron. Sir, I again respectfully decline to answer this ques-
tion both on the grounds of the first fimendment to the Constitution,
supplemented by the fifth amendment to the Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you not, for a long period of time, been inter-
ested actively in various phases of the youth movement at the instance
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Gavron. Again, sir, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion on the grounds of the first amendment to the Constitution as well
as the fifth amendment to the Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer in evidence a ther-
mof ax copy of the February 16, 1948, issue of People's World and ask
that it be marked "Gavron Exhibit No. 1."
The Chairman. It will be made a part of the record.
(Document marked "Gavron Exhibit No. 1," and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. This excerpt includes an article entitled, "Army
Draft Protest Set Tonight." It announces the speakers who were to
appear on this program, and the last one mentioned is Joseph Gavron,
American Youth for Democracy board member.
Were you correctly described there as a board member of the
American Youth for Democracy?
( Document handed to witness. )
Mr. Gavron. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question both
on the grounds of the first amendment to our Constitution, supple-
mented by the fifth amendment to our Constitution.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 105
Mr. Tavenner. Have you also been active in the work of the Labor
Youth League in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Gavkon. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the grounds both of the first amendment to our Constitution, supple-
mented by the fifth amendment to our Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. It is our understanding from the records of the
Sixteenth National Convention of the Communist Party, held in
New York February 1957, that generally speaking the work of the
Communist Party in youth groups was failing, or at least that they
were being unsuccessful, in attracting the attention of the youth of
the country as it had hoped to do.
You are familiar with that, are you not ?
Mr. Gavron. I again, sir, respectfully refuse to answer the question
both on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Has this not led to the disbandment of the Labor
Youth League of America, which is, of course, a cited organization,
cited as a Communist organization ?
Mr. Gavron. Again, sir, I respectfully decline to answer the ques-
tion, based both on the grounds of the first amendment to our Consti-
tution as well as on the grounds of the fifth amendment to our
Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. Aren't you involved now in a plan of the Communist
Party to extend and renew its activities among youth ?
Mr. Gavron. Again, sir, I respectfully decline to answer the ques-
tion, based on the grounds of the first amendment to the Constitution
as well as the fifth amendment to the Constitution .
Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the committee the benefit of what
knowledge you have of the present plan of the Communist Party to
extend its activities among youth or in youth fields ?
Mr. Gavron. Again, sir, I respectfully decline to answer the ques-
tion, based on the first amendment to the Constitution as well as tho
fifth amendment to the Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you, at any time, engaged in work within the
Independent Progressive Party of California at the instance of the
Communist Party? That is, work carrying on Communist Party
activities within that group ?
Mr. Gavron. Again, sir, I respectfully decline to answer the ques-
tion, based on both the first amendment to the Constitution, as well as
on the grounds of the fifth amendment to our Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I offer in evidence a photostatic copy
of the petition to participate in the primary election June 1, 1948, of
the Independent Progressive Party of California and ask that it be
marked "Gavron Exhibit No. 2."
The Chairman. It will be put in the record.
(Document marked "Gavron Exhibit No. 2," and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. At the end of this petition, which lists a number of
names as petitioners, there is an affidavit in the name of Joseph Gavron
regarding the circulation of the petition.
Mr. Gavron, will you examine this affidavit and state whether or not
the signature appearing there is your genuine signature ?
Mr. Gavron. Sir
(Witness confers with counsel.)
106 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Gavron. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question,
based on the first amendment to our Constitution as well as the fifth
amendment to our Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gavron, there has been introduced in evidence,
during the course of this hearing, a letter of grievances signed by 22
persons, under date of December 14, 1957, and directed to the National
Committee of the Communist Party. This letter is quite a severe
indictment of the leadersliip, the present leadership of the Communist
Party, on a national level.
According to the committee's information, we are able to identify
the names of those who signed that letter. The full names of some are
given. In other instances, only the first name and middle initial.
In some instances, only the first name is given. We find here, for
instance, the name of "Joe," with the designation of the Communist
Party unit of which he was a member as "Valley 22."
Will you state whether or not that was your method of signing this
letter of grievances?
Mr. Gaveon. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question,
based upon the grounds of the first amendment to our Constitution,
supplemented by the fifth amendment to our Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you sign it ?
Mr. Gavron. I have already answered the question, sir. I will
answer it again.
I do respectfully decline to answer it, based on the constitutional
grounds of the first amendment to our Constitution as well as the
fifth amendment to our Constitution, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party of
the Southern District of California on December 14, 1957?
Mr. Gavron. I again, sir, respectfully refuse, decline to answer
the question, based on the first and fifth amendments to our Con-
stitution.
Mr. Tavenner. That letter of protest or letter of grievances was
replied to by Dorothy Healey. She circulated her reply in writing
on the 9th day of March 1958, among the 62 members of the District
Council of the Communist Party for the Southern District of Cali-
fornia.
Did you receive a copy of that reply ?
Mr. Gavron. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question,
based on both the first and fifth amendments to our Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. The reply apparently did not persuade the majority
of those who signed the letter of grievances or, rather, it may have
persuaded the majority, but not all of those who signed the letter of
♦rrievances, for on JNIarch 26, 1958, a letter of resignation was signed
by a number of persons, directed to the National Committee of the
Communist Party. Did you sign any such letter?
We do not find your name ; I will state it fairly that we do not find
your name or anything indicating the presence of your name on the
letter of resignation. But have you signed any resignation, whether
on that date or any other date, as a member of the Communist Party ?
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Gavron. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question,
based on the grounds of the first amendment and the fifth amendment
to our Constitution.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 107
Mr. Tavenner. Now, having studied the letter of grievances to
which your name is attached, I am convinced that you do not agree
with the leadership of the Communist Party on a national level.
I am rather persuaded to think that you are not now a member of
the Coimnunist Party, Why do you not give us the facts?
Is it true that vou are not now^ a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Gavron. Sir, you have a number of questions involved in the
last statement, so if you would
Mr. Tavenner. Just answer the last one. You are not now^ a mem-
ber of the Communist Party, are you ?
Mr. Gavron. I am not a member of the Communist Party.
Mr, Tavenner. I thought not. And you are not a member because
you disagreed with the leadership of the Conununist Party, did you
not?
Mr. Gavron. I respectfully decline to answer the question, based
on the first and fifth amendments to our Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner, As a practical matter, Mr. Gavron, the members of
this committee understand these problems. You are not fooling any-
body by saying that you are not a member now but not saying any-
thing about having resigned from the Communist Party. There can
only be one fair, reasonable inference from your testimony. Now,
why do you not give the committee the full facts in regard to it?
We have important matters to ask you that are certainly within your
knowledge.
Why are you not frank with this group and tell them the facts,
instead of trying to play a game with the committee?
Mr. Gavron. Would the counsel kindly rephrase the question ?
Mr. Tavenner, Yes. Wliy do you continue to play a game with
the committee and refuse to answer a question which relates to im-
portant matters that this committee wants to learn about?
Mr. Gavron. Sir, I respectfully suggest that I am not playing a
game with the committee, and have in the past and will continue to,
during the process of the hearing, answer the questions or decline
to answer the questions in as proper and respectful a manner as I can.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, I am impressed with that. I am impressed
with your respectful attitude. And I think you want to tell this
committee the facts. Why don't you do it? What is there to pre-
vent you from doing it? Is there any fear or have there been any
threats of any character that would influence you ?
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Gavron. It is, sir, my feeling that in regard to the general
areas protected by the first amendment relative to association, free-
dom of speech and press, political persuasion, that these areas are
quite specifically protected from inquiry from a congressional com-
mittee, and it is for this reason that I respectfully refrain from dis-
cussing matters that fall into this general category.
Mr. Tavenner, Although your name is not subscribed as one of
those who signed the letter of resignation, did you later subscribe
to it, in any form, by way of approval ?
Mr. Gavron. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question,
based on the first amendment to our Constitution and the fifth amend-
ment to our Constitution.
88258 — 69— pt, 1-
108 COMMUNISM m SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Now, having ascertained that you are no longer
a member of the Commmiist Party and having the informa-
tion of which I have spoken regarding your former Communist Party
membership and the signing of j^our name as one of those who opposed
the leadership of the Communist Party in the letter of grievances,
and coupled with your continual refusal after having every oppor-
tunity to give us an explanation, I am left with no possible conclusion
in the matter other than this which appears in the letter of grievances
which you signed. There is a recommendation in this letter asking
that the present structure of the Communist Party be made more
flexible so that membership in the present type of party club is not
necessarily a requirement for adherence to the Communist Party.
You understand what I mean ?
Mr. Gavron. I believe I understand what you just said.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, here is a request or, rather, a state-
ment of grievances signed by you which is asking the privilege of not
being, organizationally speaking, a member of the Communist Party,
but yet
( Witness confers with counsel. )
Mr. Tavenner. But yet one who adheres to the organization.
Now, doesn't that mean that as far as you are concerned— I will
not ask about other people in regard to it, but only as to you— that
you are just as much a member of the Communist Party today m
carrying out its objectives as you were before this letter of grievances
was sent forth except that you are not, organizationally speaking, a
dues-paying member?
You are nodding your head with approval.
Mr. Gavron. Sir
Mr. Tavenner. And I assume you agree to that.
Mr. Gavron. No, sir. I would like to say that your reference
( Counsel confers with witness. )
Mr. Gavron. Sir, you made reference to the signature to a letter of
grievances, allegedly mine. I made no such statement in recognition
of any signature or letter. The assmnption that the name is mine is
yours to make.
The Chairman. Was it yours?
Mr. Gavron. Sir, I respectfully declined to answer the question m
a previous statement put forward to me by counsel.
The Chairman. Ask another question, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. You have not answered the question.
The Chairman. Of course he has not. Go ahead and ask another
one.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now an adherent to the Communist Party
organization although not, organizationally speaking, a dues-paying
member ?
Mr. Gavron. I respectfully. Counselor, decline to answer the ques-
tion based on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments to our
Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. And do you apprehend that a truthful answer to
that question might tend to incriminate you ?
Mr. Gavron. I have, sir, respectfully indicated my answer to the
question.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
CO:^£MUXISM IX SOUTHERX CALIFORNIA AREA 109
The CHAmiiAN-. Any questions ?
]Mr. Moulder. Just one question, Mr. Chairman.
Did you know that this committee is striving to secure through
witnesses all the information it possibly can to assist the committee
in formulating legislation to protect our national security ? Do you
have any knowledge or information concerning the act of any person
within the Communist Party which is subversive or which endangers
our national security ?
("Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Gaveox. Sir, I have no knowledge of any individual who is a
threat to the security of our country.
Mr. MouLDEE. Have you yourself been guilty of committing any
acts, subversive acts or conduct, which might endanger our national
security or present system or form of Government ?
'Mr. Gavro:s. Sir, I say most unequivocally that I have not ever
committed any illegal acts, and in regard to th.e general reference to
subversive, I would need a more definitive explanation of the term,
sir.
Mr. Moulder. Well, then, your answer causes me to ask you this
question : How can you, in good faith, claim the provisions of the fifth
amendment ? By answering the questions in that way you are placing
yourself in the position of being subjected to prosecution, when you
say you have not violated any law or committed any act of disloyalty
which is a threat to our national security. Then how do you claim
the provisions of the fifth amendment in answering questions which
were propounded by counsel — that to answer might tend to incrimi-
nate you and subject you to prosecution?
Mr. GAVRoy^. I respectfully suggest that the concept of the fifth
amendment is indeed not a shield for the guilty but rather, in fact,
a shield for the innocent; and it is in that sense and in that regard
that I claim the fifth amendment in response to the questions put for-
ward to me by counsel.
The CHAiRiiAX. Thtat is the modem concept of the fifth amendment.
Anything further, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Ta\-exxer. Yes, sir, one question. Are you at this time a
member of the 22d Congressional District unit of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Gaveok". Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question,
based on the first and the fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment ago, a little while ago, you said you
were not at the present time a member of the Communist Party.
Maybe you misunderstood my question. This is almost the same
thing, when I ask you whether you are a member of a particular unit
of the Communist Party at this time. Do you understand what I
mean ?
Mr. Gaveon. Yes, sir.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Gaveon. Sir, would you kindly repeat the last question?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Are you at this time a member of the 22d
Congressional District unit of the Communist Party?
Mr. Ga\tion. Sir, in the question, rather, put forward to me by you
relative to membership in the Communist Party where I answered
negatively, I again answer I do not belong nor am I a member of the
Communist Part v.
110 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of that imit of the Communist
Party at any time in March of 1958 ?
Mr. Gavron. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question,
based on the grounds of the first amendment, supplemented by the
fifth.
Mr. Tavexner. There was a very impoi-tant meeting of the district
comicil of the Communist Party on the 27th of July 1958. So I
would like to ask you whether or not at any time during the month
of July 1958 you were a member of the 22d Congi^essional District
unit of the Commmiist Party?
Mr. Gaveon. Sir, I again respectfully decline to answer the ques-
tion, based on the first and fifth amendments to our Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. Although you say you are not a member of the
Communist Party today, which is the 3d day of September, were you
a member of the Communist Party on the 1st day of September 1958 ?
Let me correct that by saying : Were you a member of the 22d Con-
§ressional District unit of the Communist Party on the 1st day of
eptember of this year, just 2 or 3 days ago ?
Mr. Gavron. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer the question,
based on both the first and the fifth amendments to the Constitution.
Mr. Ta-venner. You see that makes us question your good faith in
your denial of Communist Party membership. Did you determine
that you were no longer a member of the Communist Party when
you appeared in this building to attend this hearing? Was that
the time you ceased to become a member ?
Mr. Gavron. I respectfully give the same answer, sir, that I gave
a moment ago, based on the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Let us come to the point. Were you a member of
the Communist Party when you entered the door to this hearing room
immediately prior to taking the witness stand ?
Mr. Gavron. The same answer to the question, sir. I decline to
answer it, respectfully decline, on the grounds of the fii*st and fifth
amendments.
The Chairman. Is that all, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Mr. Tavenner, Call Esther Sokolow.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, please?
Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. SoKOLOW. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ESTHER GOLDIE SOKOLOW, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, AL WIRIN
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please?
Mrs. SoKOLOW. Esther Sokolow.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name ?
Mrs. SoKOLow. S-o-k-o-l-o-w.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have a middle name?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. No,"l don't.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that your married name ?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 111
Mrs. SoKOLOW. Oh, wait a minute. I had a middle name once. It
was Goldie, G-o-l-d-i-e. I never use it,
Mr. Tavenner. Is that your married name or your maiden name?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. My married name.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your name prior to marriage ?
Mrs. SoKOLow. I am afraid I won't be able to answer that question
under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that the witness is accompanied by coun-
sel, Mr. Al Wirin, a member of the Los Angeles Bar.
Where were you born ?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. Cincinnati, Ohio.
Mr. Tavenner. What day?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. April 1, 1902.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you first come to California to make it
your permanent place of residence?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. Let's see. I was brought here — I can't remember
whether it was 1910 or 1911, one of those 2 years.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. I am a social worker.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you been engaged in the work of any pro-
fession ?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. Yes. I taught for a short while.
Mr. Tavenner. Over what period of time ?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. 19 — one semester in 1923 and one semester in 1924,
and I was on the substitute list for about 2 years, but I didn't get called
very often.
Mr. Tavenner. When was that ?
Mrs. SoKOLow. Immediately following — no, wait a minute — 1927 —
I don't remember those dates, up to 1928.
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mr. Tavenner. 1928?
Mrs. SoKOLow. I think that was the date that I terminated being on
the substitute list.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you apply for a teaching position in any more
recent period than that ?
Mrs. SoKOLow. Not for teaching.
Mr. Tavenner. What did you apply for ?
Mrs. SoKOLOW. Well, I will tell you, I think I had better take the
fifth on that.
Mr. Tavenner. You say you think you should ? Won't you change
your mind and tell us the facts ?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. No; I think maybe I had better take the fifth on
that.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you take the fifth amendment ?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. I do.
Mr. Tavenner. And by taking the fifth amendment, do you mean
to state that if you gave a truthful answer, it might tend to incriminate
you?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. It might. It wouldn't incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. That is the definition of the fifth amendment.
Mrs. SoKOLOw. But it might open me up to prosecution, and my
lawyer
(Counsel confers with witness. )
112 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mrs. SoKOLow. And my lawyer tells me that that is incrimination.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us briefly what your formal educa-
tional training has been ?
Mrs. SoKOLOW. Well, I have a B.A. and about 3 years of graduate
work, including a master's in English.
Mr. Tavenner. In what school did you receive your B.A. degree
and do your master's work ?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. The B.A. was from the University of California
in Berkeley. The master's is from Occidental College.
Mr. Tavenner. What year?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. Let me see. June of 1925, 1 got the master's.
Mr. Tavenner. You stated that more recently you have been a social
worker. Over what period of time specifically and where?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. A long time. But as I told you before, Mr. Taven-
ner, with respect to that — just a minute.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. WiRiN. May the question be read to the witness ?
The Chairman. Read the question.
Mr. Tavenner. I will restate the question.
Over what period of time have you been engaged in social work or
welfare work?
Mrs. SoKOLow. You know, I am just wondering, that doesn't seem
too pertinent to me, and I am afraid I am going to have to take the
fifth on that.
The Chairman. Don't you be afraid. Are you going to invoke the
fifth amendment? Do you invoke the fifth amendment?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. Oh, yes, I do.
Mr. Moulder. May I inteipose this question? Are you now em-
ployed by the city govermnent or State government in that capacity,
as a social worker?
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mr. WiRiN. May I speak to the witness ?
The Chairman. Yes, you may.
Mrs. SoKOLOw. May I ask you to repeat that question ?
Mr. Moulder. Are you now employed by the city government or the
county. State, or Federal Government as a social worker or in any
other capacity ?
Mrs. SoKOLow. I ask to be excused from this question. You see,
the committee knows where I work. I was served
The Chairman. Your request to be excused is not adequate. You
are directed to answer the question.
Mrs. SoKOLow. I asked to be excused on the basis
The Chairman. I already said you would not be excused from an-
swering the question, and I am directing you to answer the question
that Judge Moulder just propounded.
Mr. WiRiN. May she state the reasons why she cannot answer the
question ? She has not finished her answer, Mr. Walter. She has be-
gun to state the reasons.
The Chairman. No, she did not at all. She said she wanted to be
excused.
Mr. WiRiN. This was her way of beginning to state her reasons.
May she continue ?
The Chairman. Just say you are not going to answer it and then
tell us why.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 113
Mrs. SoKOLOW. I cannot answer because, first, you know where I am
employed. I was served there. Secondly, I work for a very reputable
agency and I do not want to embarrass my employers.
The Chairman. Why would it be embarrassing to your employers?
Mrs. SoKOLOW. It would be embarrassing to my employers, and also
I really don't want to lose my job.
Mr. WiRiN. Just one second.
(Counsel confers with witness.)
Mr. WiRiN. She wants to answer your question a little more fully.
She hasn't answered your inquiry.
The Chairman. Can we assume from that that you are not employed
by the Government or any subdivision thereof ?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. You may assume thereof.
The Chairman. Now we are making a little progress. Go ahead,
Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member at any time of the Communist
Party in the Silver Lake area ?
Mrs. SoKOLow. I decline to answer on the basis of the fifth amend-
ment and on the basis that it is hardly pertinent.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you not expressed a disagreement with the
present leadership of the Communist Party in its methods of
operation ?
Mrs. SoKOLOw. I decline to answer on the basis of the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. As a result of a disagreement, haven't you now
resigned from the Communist Party ?
Mr. WiRiN. Mr. Lloyd Wright has just come into the room.
The Chairman. Please sit down, Lloyd. That is all right.
Go ahead.
Mr. WiRiN. Mr. Wright's presence is not in connection with this
present interrogation ?
Mr. Tavenner. Not at all.
Mr. WiRiN. He is here with regard to representation in a possible
litigation ?
Mrs. SoKOLow. Your question was
Mr. Tavenner. My question was : Haven't you resigned from the
Communist Party because of the opposition to the Communist Party
leadership and the view that it is now ineffective ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mrs. SoKOLOw. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend-
ment and pertinency.
Mr. Tavenner. We understand that you are not a member of tho
Communist Party.
Mrs. SoKOLOw. Same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
We will take a few minutes' recess.
(Committee members present: Representatives Walter and
Moulder.)
(Short recess.)
(Committee members present: Representatives Walter and Moul-
der.)
114 COMMUNISM m SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, please? Do you
swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. IsHiHARA. I do.
TESTIMONY OF SAKAE ISHIHARA, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
AL WIRIN
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name?
Mr. IsHiHARA. Sakae Ishihara.
Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell your name ?
Mr. Ishihara. S-a-k-a-e I-s-h-i-h-a-r-a.
Mr. Ta^xnner. It is noted for the record that Mr. Al Wirin, a
member of the California Bar and engaged in practice in Los Angeles,
accompanies the witness.
Where do you reside, Mr. Ishihara ?
Mr. Ishihara. In Los Angeles.
Mr. TAi'ENNER. What address ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Ishihara. 4205 Mandalay Drive,
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ?
Mr. Ishihara. Born April 20, 1921, in Dominguez, Calif.
Mr. Tavenner. "\^niat is your occupation ?
Mr. Ishihara. Printer.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee briefly what your formal
educational training has been ?
Mr. Ishihailv. Graduate from high school and 2 years of univer-
sity training.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Ishihara. 12 years.
Mr. Tavenner. I understand you have a very outstanding war
record. Wliat was the period of your service in the Armed Forces
of the United States?
Mr. Ishihara. Since January of 1943 to February of 1946.
Mr. Tavenner. You were not in the 442d Infantry were you ?
Mr, Ishihara. No. I was in the military intelligence in the Pacific
as a language inter]>reter and interrogator.
Mr. Tavenner. Air. Ishiliara, the committee is inquiring into cur-
rent Communist Party activities in Los Angeles resulting from a
reorganization of the Communist Party in this area.
The committee has information that the first convention or the
organizational convention of the present Southern District of the
Communist Party of California was held in Los Angeles on April 13
and 14, 1957. We have information that you attended that con-
vention. Are we correct in that ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend-
ment. I don't know how pertinent that is to what you mentioned.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, if there is doubt about the pertinency, I
think the pertinency will clearly appear from this question.
According to the committee's information, Dorothy Healey, the
chairman of tlie Communist Party for the Southern District of
California, at the convention, made a report on nimierous questions
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 115
pursuant to her duties as a member of the National Committee of
the Communist Party; and one of the subjects upon which she re-
ported was the youth movement within the Communist Party.
Now, as preliminary to the questions to you about the youth move-
ment of the Communist Party, my first question was whether you
were there and heard the report.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. IsHiHARA. Well, I take — in regards to your question, I re-
fuse to aaiswer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. By the fifth amendment are you referring to that
part of the fifth amendment relating to self-incrimination ?
Mr. IsHiHARA. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. When you received your discharge from the Armed
Forces of the United States, did you immediately come to the area
of Los Angeles?
Mr. IsHiHARA. Well, I was discharged in Fort Douglas, Utah.
Mr. Tavenner. Then did you come to Los Angeles at that time?
Mr. IsHiHARA. I believe I came within a period of a month. I am
not sure now because my family was still living in Salt Lake City
and my brother was here at the time, so I know within a period of
a month I was here in Los Angeles.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you become affiliated or reaffiliated with the
Communist Party after returning to Los Angeles from your service
in the Armed Forces?
Mr. IsHiHARA. I refuse to answer that on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you, at the suggestion of any Communist Party
unit or Communist Party functionary, engage in Communist Party
activities in mass organizations or other groups outside the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. IsHiHARA. I have to refuse that under the fifth amendment,
also.
The Chairman. You do not have to. You say "I have to."
Mr. IsHiHARA. I am sorry.
The Chairman. Say "I do."
Mr. IsHiHARA. I am sony.
Mr. Tavenner. I offer in evidence a photostatic copy of the Inde-
pendent Progressive Party of California petition to participate in
the primary election of June 1, 1948^ signed by a number of persons,
at the end of which there is an affidavit regarding the circulation
of the petition over the name of Sakae Ishihara, and ask that it be
marked "Ishihara Exhibit No. 1."
The Chairman. It will be marked and made a part of the record.
(Document marked "Ishihara Exhibit No. 1," and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the affidavit at the end of the
petition and state whether or not it was signed by you ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. It is at the bottom of the page.
Mr. Ishihara. Yes, I see it. I refuse to answer under the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you work with the Independent Progressive
Party in carrying out Communist Party directives in the year 1948
or at any time since that date?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer imder the fifth amendment.
116 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. I offer in evidence a thermof ax copy of an excerpt
from the May 7, 1948, issue of the People's World, which contains
an article entitled "Southland Nisei Set Up Committee for Wallace,"
and ask that it be marked "Ishihara Exhibit No. 2."
The Chairman. It may be admitted and made a part of the record.
(Document marked "Ishihara Exhibit No. 2," and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. This article refers to "a steering committee of five,
headed by Sakaye Ishihara."
Will you examine it, please, and state whether it accurately de-
scribes you as a member of that committee ?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you commissioned to organize within the
Nisei group an organization known as the Nisei Progressives? I
mean to say were you commissioned by the Communist Party to work
in the organization of such a group ?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I offer in evidence a thermofax
copy of an excerpt from the January 26, 1949, issue of the People's
World.
The Chairman. Is that a Communist organization ?
Mr. Tavenner. I believe what I will say will throw a little more
light on it.
The article entitled, "Nisei Group's Founding Rally On Tonight"
has this to say :
Purpose of the conference, as outlined by Chairman Sakae Ishihara, is to
found a new Nisei political action organization.
I would like to ask you, Witness, whether or not that organization
was designed to succeed the Committee for Wallace organization in
which you played an important part?
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask
that it be marked "Ishihara Exhibit No. 3."
The Chairman. It will be made a part of the record.
(Document marked "Ishihara Exhibit No. 3," and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. In addition to the activities that I have mentioned,
were you active in the Labor Youth League at the instance of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you aware of the plans of the Communist
Party in this area regarding the promotion of Communist activities
among youth ?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a sponsor of, or participant in, the
work of the Los Angeles Committee for Protection of Foreign Born ?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer in evidence a thermofax excerpt
from the February 2, 1954, issue of the People's World entitled,
"Foreign Born Committee Sets Parley Feb. 28," and ask that it
be marked "Ishihara Exhibit No. 4."
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 117
The Chairman. We will make it part of the record.
(Document marked "Ishihara Exhibit No. 4," and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend the conference of February 28,
1954?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Exhibit 447, on page 7870 of Communist Political
Subversion issued by the Committee on Un-American Activities,^ lists
you as a sponsor of a conference to defend the rights of foreign-born
Americans held by the Los Angeles Conmiittee for Protection of For-
eign Born on February 7, 1953. Did you permit your name to be used
as a sponsor of that meeting ?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Exhibit 464, on page 7798 of Communist Political
Subversion consists of a letterliead of the Los Angeles Committee for
Protection of Foreign Born. It is dated February 2, 1954. You are
carried on the letterhead as a sponsor.
Did you permit your name to be used as a sponsor ?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer
Mr. Tavenner. And you were a sponsor ?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Again at page 7901 of the same document, exhibit
467 carries a letterhead of May 17, 1956, showing you as a sponsor
of the Sixth Annual Conference to Repeal the Walter McCarran Law
and to Defend Its Victims. Were you such a sponsor ?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer that on the same gi'ounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Exhibit 474A, at page 7906 of the same publication,
is a letterhead of the Sixth Annual Conference to Repeal the Walter
McCarran Law and to Defend Its Victims. It is dated March 8, 1956.
You are carried on this letterhead as a sponsor. Were you such a
sponsor ?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Exhibit 502A of the same document is a letterhead
of the Los Angeles Committee for Protection of Foreign Born. It is
dated February 24, 1956, and you are listed as a sponsor. Were you
such a sponsor ?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party at this
time?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting of the District Council of
the Communist Party for the Southern District of California and
other functionaries held on the 27th of July 1958 ?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. It is our information that you did not attend such
a meeting, but did you receive information relating to any of the
views expressed in the reports made at that meeting regarding the
Soviet Union and Hungary, the Soviet Union and the Arabic situa-
tion, and the views regarding minority groups in this country ?
Mr. Ishihara. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
^ See appendix to hearings of Committee on Un-American Activities on Communist
Political Subversion, 1956, 84th Cong., 2d sess.
118 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a supporter of Dorothy Healey in her con-
test within the organization for this district ?
Mr. IsHiHARA. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. You will not say which side you are on ?
Mr. Ishihara. Not here.
Mr. Tavenner. All right. That's good enough.
Mr. Ishihara. I do not know what you are talking about.
Mr. Tavenner. I assume, then, you expect to be present in October
when the question is decided ?
Mr. Ishihara. You seem to know more about it than I do.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, I know a great deal about it. I have no
further questions.
Mr. WiRiN. May the witness be excused ?
The Chairman. I never expected to see Americans of Japanese
ancestry testify before this committee. You enjoy a distinction.
Is there anything further, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Will you raise your right hand, please ?
Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Burton. I do.
The Chairman. Sit down.
TESTIMONY OF BERNARD BURTON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
AL WIRIN
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please ?
Mr. Burton. Sir, my name is Bernard Burton, B-u-r-t-o-n.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted for the record that the witness is accom-
panied by Mr. Al Wirin, member of the California Bar, having his
offices in the city of Los Angeles.
Wliere do you live, Mr. Burton ?
Mr, Burton. 1811 Baxter Street, Los Angeles.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you please state the place and time of your
birth? ^
Mr. Burton. June 10, 1915, Brooklyn, N.Y.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your occupation ?
Mr. Burton. Well, as a result of the work of this committee, I am
presently unemployed and have been so for the last month.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your occupation ?
Mr. Burton. I am a proofreader and a journalist.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the committee, please, a brief state-
ment of your formal educational training?
Mr. Burton. I had 2 years of college at the College of the City of
New York, CCNY.
Mr. Tavenner. When were you there ?
Mr. Burton. 1931 to 1934. Maybe it is 1932 to 1935. I can't be
sure at this moment.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you first come to California to make it
the place of your business or your residence ?
Mr. Burton. September of 1955.
Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live prior to that ?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 119
Mr. Burton. In New York City.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your occupation there ?
Mr. Burton. I was an editor.
Mr. Tavenner. Editor of what paper ?
Mr. Burton. Of the New York Daily Worker.
Mr. TA^^NNER. How long were you an editor of the Daily Worker?
Mr. Burton. Well, I was with the Daily Worker a total of — let me
see now — it is a total of almost 9 years, and I think for the last 4 or 5
years, I was an editor.
Mr. Tavenner. That would take you back to about 1946 when
you first went with the Daily Worker ?
Mr. Burton. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that what was the nature of your occu-
pation ?
Mr. Burton. I was still a journalist. I worked on the Baltimore
Sun.
Mr. Tavenner. How long were you employed there?
Mr. Burton. Only a few months. I left the Baltimore Sun to take
a trip. That was shortly after my discharge. I only had a tempo-
rary job on the Baltimore Sun, waiting for a veteran to return. 1
took a trip over to California and then when I retuiTied back East,
I was offered 'a job on the Daily Worker.
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to your employment with the Baltimore Sun,
what was your occupation ?
Mr. Burton. I was still a journalist. I was in the service at the
time on the Stars and Stripes.
Mr. Tavenner. Over what period of time were you in the armed
services ?
Mr. Burton. I was in the armed services from March 1943 to De-
cember of 1945.
( Counsel confers with witness. )
Mr. Tavenner. What were you prior to your entry into the service ?
Mr. Burton. First in the service I did not spend my complete time
on the Stars and Stripes. I had 275 days of front line action, which
the War Department records will show as a combat infantryman.
Prior to my service I was in upstate New York.
Mr. Tavenner. Elmira, N. Y. ?
Mr. Burton. Part of it was in Elmira, N. Y.
Mr. Tavenner. Were your headquarters in Elmira, N. Y. ?
Mr. Burton. I didn't have any headquarters. I lived in Elmira,
N.Y.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you the Communist Party organizer of that
area ?
Mr. Burton. Yes; I was the Communist Party organizer of that
area.
Mr. Tavenner. Over what period of time ?
Mr. Burton. From 1939 until my entry into the service. I don't
know what part of 1939. My recollection is it was the latter part of
1939.
Mr. Tavenner. Were any of the organizers of UE members of the
Communist Party over the area in which you had control ?
Mr. Burton. Well, I must respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion on the grounds that (1) as a matter of morality and conscience I
120 COMMUNISM m SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
cannot be an informer. No. 2, I don't believe that names are perti-
nent to any legislative question. And No. 3, on the grounds of the
first and fifth amendment to the Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. By the fifth amendment, are you including that
part of the fifth amendment relating to self-incrimination ?
Mr. BuKTON". Yes ; I include that, too.
Mr, Tavenner. Having admitted that he was the Communist Party
organizer at Elmira, N.Y., it certainly is apparent, Mr. Chairman,
that any right that he may have had to refuse to answer the question
on the grounds of self-incrimination is now waived ; and, therefore, I
request that the witness be directed to answer the question.
Mr. WiRiN. May I state for the record, just briefly, that I have ad-
vised the witness that under the present law he does not waive his
right to privilege merely by having answered the question as to his
occupation and as to participation in activities of the Communist Party
with respect to names.
The Chairman. Let us ask another question, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Burton. May I merely interject here ?
The Chairman. There is no question pending.
Mr. Burton. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend the National Training School set
up by the National Committee of the Communist Party for the train-
ing of theoreticians and propagandists in Camp Beacon on the
Hudson in the spring of 1946 ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Burton. Yes, I attended that.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that school run and operated by the Commu-
nist Party as indicated in my question?
Mr. Burton. I believe it was, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. You know it was, do you not ?
Mr. Burton. Let us see, on concrete information, all I can say is
I believe it was. I cannot produce any documentary proof to show
that it was.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you first become a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Burton. 1935.
Mr. Tavenner. Where ?
Mr. Burton. In Brooklyin, N.Y. No, no, Newburgh, N.Y.
Mr. Tavenner. Newburgh?
Mr. Burton. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the first Communist Party unit to which
you were assigned ?
Mr. Burton. As far as I know there was one Communist Party club
in Newburgh, N. Y., and I joined it.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat were the circumstances under which you
became a member ?
Mr. Burton. I was moved by the depression that then existed in
the land. It seemed to me that the Communist Party, at the time,
was filling a vacuum in attempting to do something for the unemploy-
ment in presenting some kind of a positive program. It was a basic
reason for my joining the party.
Mr. Tavenner. What official positions have you held in the Com-
munist Party ?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 121
Mr. Burton. Well, I don't know what you mean by official posi-
tions— members of committees ?
Mr. Tavenner. Let us take first members of units or groups or
commissions of the Communist Party.
Mr. Burton. Well, I might have held various club offices. As a
matter of fact, I don't even remember holding a club office. I have
been what you call a Communist Party section organizer, as I testified
before.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Over w^hat period of time were you a Commu-
nist Party organizer ?
Mr. Burton. From 19 — wait — 1935 to 1937 first. Latter part of
1935 to 1937, and then from 1939 to 1943, as I previously testified.
Mr. Tavenner. For the period 1935 to 1937, where were you
located ?
Mr. Burton. In Newburgh, N. Y.
Mr. Tavenner. And then the latter period you were a Communist
organizer at what place ?
Mr. Burton. The Elmira-Binghamton area, commonly referred
to as the southern tier of New York State.
Mr. Tavenner. Did I understand that it was from 1939 to 1943?
Mr. Burton. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your affiliation with the Communist
Party in the period between the times that you occupied those posi-
tions which you have described ?
Mr. Burton. I was a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliere were you ?
Mr. Burton. Up and down in the Hudson Valley.
Mr. Tavenner. Engaged in what work ?
Mr. Burton. I was an organizer for the CIO Textile Workers Or-
ganizing Committee.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time connected with the UE as an
organizer ?
Mr. Burton. No, I was never connected with the UE.
Mr. Moulder. Do I understand that you are an organizer, solicit-
ing Communist Party membership within the CIO ?
Mr. Burton. No, I was a trade union organizer, soliciting workers
into membership in a trade union.
Mr. Moulder. In a trade union ?
Mr. Burton. Yes, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Counsel made reference to your being an organizer
of the Communist Party, as I understand the question.
Mr. Burton. I understood it to be what was I doing between 1937
and 1939.
The Chairman. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. That is correct, between the two periods when he
said he had been a Communist Party organizer.
Mr. Burton. Yes, that is the way I understood it.
Mr. WiRiN. He admitted he was a Communist Party organizer on
dates other than when he was working for the Textile Workers Union.
Mr. Moulder. Then you were not a Communist Party organizer at
that time?
Mr. Burton. Not at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. You were a member of the Communist Party dur-
ing the time you were an organizer for the textile union ?
122 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Burton. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold a position in the Communist Party
during that period of time ?
Mr. Burton. I don't recall holding any position.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you on any commission or committee of the
Communist Party during that period ?
Mr. Burton. No, I don't believe I was. At least I can't remember
being. At a later period I was on a committee but that was pro
forma.
Mr. Moulder. Was your employment as an organizer of the CIO
the result of your being an active Communist Party member?
Mr. Burton. No, I became an organizer of the CIO as a result of
the participating in the CIO volunteering drive.
Mr. Moulder. You do not then feel that the Communist Party
members had any influence in securing your position in the CIO as an
organizer ?
INIr. Burton. None that I was aware of, because textile was one
union in which the Communists had very little influence.
The Chairman. "Who was the head of that union at that time?
Mr. Burton. At that time the late Sidney Hillman.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the names of any other organizers
of the textile union of the CIO while you were an organizer for that
organization who were known by you to be members of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Burton. I must respectfully decline on previously stated
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. May I ask that the witness be directed to answer?
The Chairman. You are directed to answer that question,
Mr. Burton. I beg your pardon. I must respectfully decline on
the same grounds.
The Chairman. You say "must." By that you mean "I do"?
Mr. Burton. I am using "must" in the sense of conscience and
volition.
Mr. Tavenner. Then I believe you entered the armed services in
1943?
Mr. Burton. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. And you returned and were discharged when ?
Mr. Burton. December 1945.
Mr. TA^^NNER. An honorable discharge, I presume ?
Mr. Burton. Yes, indeed.
Mr. Ta\'-enner. When you retumed in 1945, did you again resume
\our activities with the Communist Party?
Mr. Burton. Yes, I rejoined the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliere and when ?
Mr. Burton. In Baltimore.
Mr. Tavenner. Wlio was the head of the Communist Party in
Baltimore at that time ?
Mr. Burton. I again respectfully decline to answer on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it Earl Reno ?
Mr. Burton. Same answer.
Mr. Moulder. May I ask, were you solicited to join at that time or
did you voluntarily seek out the headquarters of the Communist Party
to become a member ?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 123
Mr. Burton. I can't really recall. The ground would have been —
the substance would not have made much difference. I mean I was
willing to go back whether I had been solicited, whether somebody
came to see me, or whether I went myself. I don't recall,
Mr. Tavenner. Were you still on military leave at the time that you
became a member ?
Mr. Burton. No, sir.
Mr. Taa^nner. Did you hold any oiRcial position in the Com-
munist Party at Baltimore ?
Mr. Burton. No, I did not.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Or in District No. 3, which comprised the District
of Columbia and the State of Maryland ?
Mr. Burton. I didn't know that was the district number. No, I
didn't know.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Mary Markward, the
treasurer of the Communist Party of that district ?
Mr. Burton. I do decline on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the Communist Party of Baltimore at that
time engaged in centralizing its work in the steel industry in Balti-
more?
Mr. Burton. I don't know what that means. I don't know what
you mean by "centralizing."
Mr. Tavenner. I mean by that, that it concentrated its effort within
the steel unions in Baltimore.
Mr. Burton. I don't really know.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat type of a cell of the Communist Party was it
to which you were assigned ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Burton. Excuse me for a moment. First, I was assigned to a
neighborhood club.
Mr. Ta\'enner. What was the name of the club ?
Mr. Burton. I don't even recall that. I don't even know if it had
any.
Mr. Ta\^nner. In what area of Baltimore was it located ?
Mr. Burton. I think that was known as the Highland area.
Mr. Tavenner. Very well. Wliat was the next group ?
Mr. Burton. I think it was the Steel Club of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Then, apparently, you know something about the
concentration of effort in the steel industry ?
Mr. Burton. No, I would not know.
Mr. Tavenner. If you were in the Steel Club of the Communist
Party ?
Mr. Burton. I was in the Steel Club of the Communist Party be-
cause for a short while I was working in a steel mill.
Mr. Tavenner. What mill ?
Mr. Burton. Bethlehem.
Mr. Tavenner. How many composed your Communist Party unit
in Bethlehem Steel ?
Mr. Burton. I don't recall that. I just don't know how many there
were at this late stage.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us approximately the number?
Mr, Burton. No, I wouldn't be able to, the reason being that I
worked in Bethlehem Steel about 3 weeks, and as far as I can recall,
38253— 59— pt. 1 8
124 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
I never went to a meeting of the Steel Club. I was asked to be in the
Steel Club but I never got to one. I left for New York.
Mr. Tavenner. You went to New York. In what business did you
engage there and when ?
Mr. BuKTON. I went to New York as a reporter for the Daily
Worker.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was that date ?
Mr. Burton. July of 1946.
Mr. Tavenner. I assume you were a close friend of John Gates.
Mr. Burton. I decline to answer that on the same grounds just to
be consistent.
Mr. Tavenner. And you left the Daily Worker when ?
Mr. Burton. August of 1955.
Mr. Tavenner, And came to California ?
Mr. Burton. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party when
you left the Daily Worker ?
Mr. Burton. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your reason for leaving the Daily
Worker?
Mr. Burton. Well, there was an opening for a reporter on the Daily
People's World here, and I sort of had a hankering to come out to
California, and I sought to fill that opening.
Mr. Tavenner. And how long were you engaged in work at the
Daily People's World?
Mr. Burton. From September of 1955 to exactly June 10 of 1957,
when I resigned from the People's World.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, were you transferred from the Daily Worker
to the People's World ? Did you know that you were going to receive
the position before you left ?
Mr. Burton. Before I left, yes, I knew ; but it wasn't a transfer. It
was two separate papers.
Mr. Tavenner. Through whom were your arrangements made to
be employed on the Daily People's World ?
Mr. Burton. Well, I guess we get into the same grounds again, then.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Was it Al Richmond ?
Mr. Burton. I will have to decline to answer that on the same
grounds. I do that most respectfully.
Mr. Tavenner. You say you resigned from the Communist Party
in June ?
Mr. Burton. No, I resigned from the Daily People's World in June.
I resigned from the Communist Party in April of 1957.
Mr. Tavenner. April of 1957?
Mr. Moulder. At that point, would you care to elaborate on that—
why you resigned, why you disassociated yourself from the Commu-
nist Party ?
Mr. Burton. I would be most happy to.
As the committee may be aware, if they followed the somewhat
dreary Communist Party debates that followed the secret Khrushchev
report of 1956, so-called secret report, there was great dissension
within the Communist Party. I was considered one of those fightin<T
existing concepts. I published articles to that extent. '^
Mr. Moulder. Existing concepts ?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 125
Mr. Burton. Existing concepts, old concepts, under which the
Communist Party had grown up, functioned. I raised many ques-
tions.
The final note came with the revolution in Hungary. I did not
and do not accept the proposition that Hungary represented a Fascist
counterrevolution. I held to the position then, and I still hold to it
now, that Soviet intervention was not justified. I urged the Commu-
nist Party to take a critical stand, I and many others.
Mr. Moulder. Communist Party where ?
Mr. Burton-. Of the United States. It was a preconvention period
where a national convention was coming up. You are hoping to
accomplish something that way. I had entertained hopes for a while
that it might happen, especially because of a number of Daily Worker
editorials from back East which were highly critical.
And finally, when it came to the point following the national con-
vention, where I became convinced this would not happen, I decided
to leave the party. There were many others involved. I will bring
in John Gates only to this point, saying that my views were consid-
ered similar to those of John Gates. I, for example, wrote an arti-
cle— I still have it here — of what was then known as the National
Discussion Bulletin of the Communist Party.
The Chairman. Is that what brought about someone calling you
Tito. Didn't I read that somewhere ?
Mr. Burton. I think they may have. They called me worse than
that.
This was a front-page article which called for the dissolution of
the Communist Party, its establishment of a political action organi-
zation, the concept being that it should stop its nonsense about being
the vanguard of the American working class — when, as far as the
American working class goes, it hardly knows it exists — and start
learning something about America.
I might add, again without mentioning names, that this became
something of a cause celebre in party leaders who now control the
party, who went throughout the land condemning this as a new
form of liquidationism, Titoism, et cetera, et cetera.
All of these things culminated, and I came to the conclusion that
the Communist Party was finished in this country, and I left the
Communist Party.
That is it in brief. I can go into much more detail about theoreti-
cal concepts, and so on.
Mr. Tavenner. Proceed.
Mr, Burton. Well, I held to the views, for example, which at that
time Togliatti of the Italian Communist Party advanced and since
seems to have withdrawn, that any kind of communism or Socialist
movement any plac« in the world, can interest only on what he called
a poly centric basis, meaning by that that there cannot be a Com-
munist Party of any one country which is judged superior in wisdom
or in any way to that of another Communist Party. This apparently
was not well received by those who now control the party.
Mr. Moulder. Do I understand that you agreed to that concept?
Mr. Burton. I agreed with that proposition. This apparently was
not well received by those wlio control the party.
I might say, in more simple form, the final thing w\as that it became
a sort of a mark of opprobrium. I was given the title of "West Coast
126 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
John Gates" which I had not earned, I do not think, but I was given
that title, I think you gentlemen know the story of John Gates.
I might say that our positions, without ever having been in con-
tact with each other during this period, were quite similar on almost
all points. Actually, I preceded John Gates out of the party. John
Gates and that group from the Daily Worker, as I recall, left the
party at the time the Daily Worker folded. I don't recall the dates.
But I know I preceded him out. I don't know what else to tell here.
May I add something here ? Maybe I am anticipating the question
and the chairman can stop me if I am.
As far as my views are concerned, I still consider myself a Socialist
in outlook. I consider myself an independent Socialist. I hold to
the view that there is not a single, existing organization in the United
States today which holds to a Socialist viewpoint which is in any
way capable of doing justice to that viewpoint or in any way capable
of providing the germ or doing anything along the lines of socialism.
I also want to add here, without being disrespectful, that in my
opinion the Communist Party would be even more atomized than it
is today, had it not been for the work of this committee. I say that
in most respectful terms.
The Chairman. It is an interesting thing. We are going to have
a witness this week who will say just the opposite. He will say that
the work of this committee prevented the Communist Party from ex-
panding because it was not a popular thing to do — to be active in
the Communist front.
Mr. Burton. Let me say it this way : that there were great hazards
in being a Communist. There still are. One risks economic conse-
quences. One also risks certain other kinds of consequences, even
legal consequences.
I think what happened in the Communist Party in the last 2 years
was a wide-open debate which would have gone much further, had
not a feeling arisen that you have got to hold back because you will
be giving names out and, when you give names out, then some com-
mittee or other gets these names, and the next thing that happens
these people lose their jobs.
Now, I may have the most profound disagreement with many peo-
ple in the Communist Party and I do, as a matter of fact, with al-
most all of the people in the Communist Party. I do not put it on a
personal basis; I put it purely on a political basis. Some I like as
persons, some I dislike as persons, as everybody else ; but, at the same
time, morally and in conscience, I cannot talk about them and their
views because I feel these people might lose their jobs, as I have lost
mine. This becomes a big question in inhibiting interdebate in the
Communist Party, which I believe would be good not only for what
might happen later, but good for the country as a whole.
The Chairman. Do you think that perhaps Hungary would have
stimulated such discussion that members would have torn each other
apart?
Mr. Burton. I think so. It came close to it. At least I almost
felt the hot breath down my back.
The Chairman. I had a very interesting discussion with Johnny
Santo.
Mr. Burton. Is he in this country now ?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 127
The Chairman. No, I saw him in Geneva.
Mr. Burton. One of the things that convinced me more than ever
that what happened, in Hungary was not a Fascist counterrevolution,
was when I saw Johnny Santo's name in the New York Times. There
were other things since then that convinced me. I do not think
there can be indirect aggression by the State Department, just
as I don't believe there can be by the Soviet Union. One country
may try to keep the coals on the fire but they don't start the fire.
I did not believe the Soviet propoganda that America started this
thing, just as I am sorry to say that I do not believe the State De-
partment propaganda that the Soviet Union started the trouble in
Lebanon.
Mr. Moulder. Going back to your point with reference^ to this
committee, do I understand you to say that it is your belief that
those who are undecided, or were undecided, in connection with the
Communist activities were influenced to stay morally affiliated with
the Communist Party because of sympathy with certain people or
because of prejudice against the committee?
Mr. Burton. I think that was a factor — not the sole factor — ^but
that was a factor, because despite what may be thought generally.
Communist Party members are Americans and subject to certain
American attitudes. You do not kick a man while he is down. In
other words, if a man is in jail and subject to penalty, imprisonment,
subject to being fired from his job, you are going to lay off him, and
you do not feel like walking out on people when they are in need
of help.
Mr. Moulder. Going back to the point that you raised about losing
employment, you say you lost your employment ?
Mr. Burton. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. How long ago?
Mr. Burton. August 8.
Mr. Moulder. What caused it?
Mr. Burton. I had served as a proofreader at the Times for 13
months.
Mr. WiRiN. Los Angeles Times.
Mr. Burton. Los Angeles Times.
The Chairman. Wliy did you lose your job ?
Mr. Burton. I am just explaining it.
I came in to work one day and was informed by the superintendent
of the composing room, the print shop, that there was a subpena
waiting for me in the legal office of the Los Angeles Times on the
fourth floor. I went up there, and there was a marshal. I believe
it was the marshal. I didn't ask what he was. He had plain clothes
on. And he handed me the subpena in front of one of the Times
attorneys, a subpena of this committee asking me to appear, I think
it was then dated for August 22.
When I got the subpena I felt I wanted to go and talk to the Los
Angeles Times administration myself. I didn't want it to come from
the committee.
I will preface it by saying that the Los Angeles Times did not know
of my former connections with the Daily Worker or with the People's
World. I also preface it by saying that my leaving it out had noth-
ing to do with my competency or my ability as a craftsman. I had
128 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
sufficient abilities and I did not overstate my abilities as a craftsman
because, as a matter of fact, only 2 weeks before receiving the subpena
I received a raise.
The Chairman. What type of work were you doing?
Mr. Burton. Proofreading. I might also say that the reason for
ray applying for proofreading was I did not want to take a job that,
by any stretch of the imagination, could be construed sensitive. I
spent most of my time as a proofreader seeing that there were no
typographical errors in advertisements.
' So I asked to see the management of the Los Angeles Times and
I had a conference with the secretarv of the Times-Mirror Co. in
which I told him my whole background — I left nothing out — the same
as I am telling this committee.
I told him my attitude, if I had to appear as a witness before the
committee, would be that I am willing to testify about anything
about myself but I cannot in conscience be an informer to provide
names. They understood that but they felt that the Times was in a
very difficult position, and I understood that, too; that the Times was.
Then I recognized that they had a legal right on those grounds to
discharge me for not stating, giving my full employment background
and my record.
Mr. Moulder. Did you conceal it?
Mr. Burton. Well, rather than concealing it, I omitted it. Yes, I
omitted the Daily Worker and the People's World in my record. I
knew I would never be employed by the Times had I put it down.
And I might say that when I left the People's World, I thought, well,
I will try to say where I had worked.
Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry to interrupt you. The direct question
was asked you. Is that your explanation ?
Mr. Burton. When you apply for employment at the personnel
department, you are asked to list your previous employment.
Mr. Tavenner. I see.
Mr. Burton. Then I frankly resorted to subterfuges. For example,
in the period of the Daily Worker, instead of saying the Daily Worker,
I said the F and D Printing Co., which published the Daily Worker.
The secretary of the company so stated that he understood. I needed
a job. I had found that I could not obtain a job by telling the truth.
I had tried that when I left the People's World.
When I heard of an opening for a proofreader at the Los Angeles
Times, I felt, well, this is my area which nobody can say I am possibly
infiltrating the paper, hunting for typographical errors and seeing
that they are not made.
As a matter of fact, at that time I had heard of an opening on the
copy desk of the Los Angeles Times for which I also was well qualified,
on the editorial side, and I would not apply because I felt I just
didn't want to get into anything that, by any stretch of the imagina-
tion, could be construed as sensitive or creative or anything or the
sort. I took this job as a proofreader.
Well, the Los Angeles Times, the Times-Mirror Co., felt apparently
that they would be put in a very difficult position. As a matter of
fact, I was asked this question, and I say this because I don't feel any
ill will toward the Los Angeles Times, I recognize that they had a
right and I recognize things that the climate that then existed, they
had a very difficult choice to make.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 129
The Times— at least I got this impression from the discussion— the
Times management felt that it would appear that I had not really
resigned from the Communist Party. It would appear that I might
not have really resigned from the People's World, because the interval
of my leaving the People's World and obtaining a job on the Los
Angeles Times was from June 10 to July 1.
I was in the unfortunate position of not having to wear a crown of
thorns at the time. I was able to obtain work. I might point out
that none of my former colleagues on the Daily Worker — and I
pointed this out to the Los Angeles Times — Gates and the rest of them
mcluded — despite the fact that there had been editorial columns ap-
pearing in the papers at the time, you remember, praising Gates and
the othei*s, yet when these people left the paper, not one of them, not
a smgle one of them has been able to obtain a job in the only craft
and profession they know.
So that was the situation. I think, again without being disrespect-
ful, had it not been for the kind of climate that is often spread by
investigations of this type, there is a chance that the management may
have overlooked it, may have decided that we have the right to do it,
but we don't exercise this right, nothing compels us to exercise this
right.
Mr. Tavenner. Can we have a few minutes ?
Mr. Burton. I also wanted to state here
Mr. Tavenner. Wait just a minute.
The Chairman. We will take a recess.
(Committee members present: Representatives Walter and
Moulder.)
Mr. Tavenner. You will have an opportunity to finish what you
started to say.
Mr. Burton. I do not consider it a weighty thought.
(Short recess.)
(Committee members present: Representatives Walter and
Moulder.)
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Burton. I wanted to state that I feel that it was a result of
the subpena that I was discharged.
Secondly, I again want to add that I feel that the committee, mean-
ing no disrespect to any members of the committee, the committee in
its method of functioning is not doing a service at this moment in tlie
country. I think it is doing a disservice because, by its very nature,
you are spreading a sort of atmosphere of fear, a sort of gray con-
formity, of fear of expressing any independent thought, and, if you
please, dangerous thoughts.
Mr. Tavenner. Then I take it you disagree with Congress' determi-
nation to keep informed as to the progress of Communist Party activi-
ties and its objects in this country ?
Mr. Burton. I might say as a Washington correspondent for two
sessions of Congress, and again meaning no disrespect to the Con-
gressmen, I think very few Congressmen are informed even despite
the volumes of material that have been published by the committee.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, but you have not answered my question.
Mr. Burton. Will you rephrase it ?
Mr. Tavenner. Will you read the question ?
130 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
(Record read.)
Mr. Burton. I think there are much more objective, much more
rounded ways of keeping informed. For example, I have been quite
impressed with the recent Ford Foundation study called "The Roots
of American Communism."
The Chairman. It is a great book.
Mr. Burton. Which made me feel like the biggest fool that ever
lived, having been a Commmiist for so many years and not having
known about these things. But I was also impressed by the fact that
this was scholarly, objective, and was not based upon what may be
disgruntled statements of informers, of people who were defeated in
some objective or some office or anything of the sort, but was fully
documented, romided, and everything else. It is this kind of a study,
to me, which is the basis of objective understanding.
The Chairman. But who reads that ? I will bet they do not sell a
thousand copies over the United States, and it is one of the best works
I have ever seen. There is another volume coming out, you know.
Mr. Burton. Yes, I am looking forward to it.
The Chairman. Who is going to read it ? Wlio is gomg to pay $9
for the two volumes ?
Mr. Burton. Let me put it this way. Congressman : You, yourself,
were complaining before that very few people read the reports of the
House Committee on Un-American Activities.
The Chairman. You can find this volmne on my desk. I read it
and laid it there with the hope that some day someone will notice it.
It is a trap. I have it there for the benefit of a lot of people,
including the employees of the coimnittee. This is the old booby
trap. No one looks at it. It has been there for a month,
Mr. Burton. Maybe they should have left the name "Communism"
out of the title.
The Chairman. That is the point. You just do not bring the story
home to the people.
Mr. Burton. Well, if I may say
The Chairivian. Take Johnny Santo, for example : The immigrant,
the labor organizer, the Conununist, the Communist Party organizer,
deported. The official of the Hungarian Government. And then all
of a sudden a revolutionist. A terrific story. You would have a
terrible time selling that to the Saturday Evening Post for $500.
Mr. Burton. I have been trying to freelance some stuff to the Sat-
urday Evening Post and have been collecting a lot of rejects.
The Chairman. I mean it. It is a difficult thing to make people
come to an appreciation of what is the right tiling to do. That is what
we want to know — what is the right thing to do.
Mr. Burton. In my opinion, from long experience within the Com-
munist movement, which may not be the typical experience, because
most of it was as a newspaperman — in my opinion, people whom you
may want to influence — I don't only mean Communists; I include
Communists — but I mean people with liberal outlooks, if you please,
radical outlooks, need radical outlook; I think the country needs a
native radicalism. Begin with the proposition that anything issued
by a congressional committee is suspect. It has happened down
through the history of the radical movement in this country. I think
the Ford Foundation bears this out, because there were definite reports
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 131
on these very same questions. But there are in this country a whole
number of people like me who would welcome, and look for, a resur-
gence of a native type of radicalism.
Mr. Moulder. What kind ?
Mr. Burton. Native radicalism like Eugene Debs.
The Chairman. Would you stand up on the housetops and say that
finyone who is a Communist today, or has been a Communist since
Hungary, is a sucker? Would you say that publicly? You would
not.
Mr. Burton. Let me say this : What has influenced Communists to
leave the party, as far as reading material goes, more than anything
else are certain Marxist non-Communist publications rather than pub-
lications of this committee. I include such things as the American
Socialist, a monthly publication; the National Guardian, a weekly
publication; certain stuff from abroad published in England called
the New Reasoner, the University and Left Review, a very scholarly
kind of thing.
The Chairman. Who reads that scholarly material ?
Mr. Burton. Communists do, at least those who study ; not all of
them do. This is because this is taken in an atmosphere of free take-
and-give debate, whereas one feels with a report from a congressional
committee there is, rightly or wrongly, an element of compulsion.
The Chairman. But why ? Now, Mr. Moulder was nominated. He
has not a thing to worry about. I have been elected 13 times. Being
here today just deprives me of the pleasure of sitting on the boardwalk
of Atlantic City and helping to pick the winner of the beauty con-
test. But here I sit. But we do not enjoy this.
Mr. Burton. I am sure you do not.
The Chairman. But a lot of people have an idea that we hold hear-
ings just for the purpose of doing something.
Mr. Burton. I have covered many hearings in Washington. I know
the Congressmen do not enjoy it and often try to get out of it.
The Chairman. Of course we try to get out of it.
Mr. Burton. I think it goes back to an old American tradition, "I
will think what I please, and nobody is going to tell me what I will
think." Tliere is also an atmosphere that if any agency of the
Government
The Chairman. Do you think the same thing is true, for example,
when the Monopoly Subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee holds
a hearing on the question of whether or not organized sports should
be subject to the antitrust laws? Do you think people listen to those
witnesses and pay attention ?
Mr. Burton. There, yes, because again of an old antimonopoly
tradition in this country.
The Chairman. Every congressional committee is holding hearings
constantly, you know that as well as I do.
Mr. Burton. Also, although I am not a lawyer, far from it, there
one feels Congress has the power and the right to legislate. Many
people, including me, feel that Congress has no right to legislate in
fields of thought, press, conviction, and so on.
The Chairman. It is not easy, is it ?
Mr. Burton. It is a fine point, I grant you. But it goes back to an
old, I think, grassroots tradition in this country, which I am all in
favor of.
132 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
The Chairman. Mr. Tavenner, do you have any questions ?
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to know whether the witness was a
delegate to the Sixteenth National Convention of the Communist
Party.
Mr. Burton. No, I was not. I didn't stay in the show. My position
was in print. I couldn't get elected.
Mr. Tavenner. You have no first-hand knowledge of your own of
the operation of that convention ?
Mr. Burton. It would be hearsay, purely hearsay.
Mr. Tavenner. We have heard, during the course of this hearing,
a great deal about recent activities of the Communist Party in this
area in its effort to reorganize and advance in various directions. The
last meeting to which we have referred was that of the District Coun-
cil for the Southern District of California of July 27, 1958. "Wlien
did you say that you left the Communist Party ?
Mr. Burton. April of 1957.
Mr. Tavenner. And have you any knowledge of the workings of
that meeting ?
Mr. Burton. The first I heard it was an element of surprise that
this committee knew anything about it. That is the first I heard of it.
I have not been involved in any Communist Party activities.
Mr. Tavenner. On December 14, 1957, which is still subsequent to
the time that you left the Communist Party, there was a letter of
grievances signed by 22 members of the party here in Los Angeles
directed to the National Committee of the Communist Party.
Were you in any way connected with that?
Mr. Burton. No ; I was not.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, going back earlier and to about the time of
your leaving the Communist Party, the organizing convention of the
new Southern California District of the Communist Party was held
April 13 and 14, 1957. Did you attend it?
Mr. Burton. May I consult with my attorney ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Burton. Yes ; I attended that.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the difficulty presented to the member-
ship of the council at that meeting?
Mr. Burton. I don't quite — it doesn't connect in my mind. The
difficulties of the council ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes; were there any difficulties that arose before
the council at that time ?
Mr. Burton. There wasn't a council in existence at that time. That
was a convention you are referring to ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; it was a convention, not a council meeting.
Mr. Burton. I can't recall any. I know I was nominated for office
there and I declined. I had made up my mind I was leaving then.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat office?
Mr. Burton. District council.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever a member of the district council ?
Mr. Burton. No ; I was not. I was never — I never held any party
post in California.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear the report made at that convention by
Dorothy Healey ?
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA 133
Mr. Burton. Well, we are getting into the realm of names again,
and I would again respectfully decline on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Tavenner. There is nothing of a secret character about Doro-
thy Healey's chairmanship of the Communist Party of this area,
is there ?
Mr. Burton. I prefer to sta^ consistent. I just don't want to testify
to her activities or I will get into that realm.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you hear a report made by anyone at that
convention, outlining the objectives of the Communist Party for this
district?
Mr. Burton. Yes ; I did.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you agree with the objectives of that report ?
Mr. Burton. It is a little difficult for me to recall. I heard so many
reports in those days. But my impression is that I did not. That is
the reason I refused to accept nomination for office. That is the reason
I, at that time, made up my mind I was going to leave.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the basic area of your objection ?
Mr. Burton. Well, I think there was one place in there — and it
may be another report ; I may be a little hazy here — for example
Mr. Tavenner. Would you like to look at the report ?
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mr. Burton. If you don't mind, because I heard so many reports
that they all dissolve together in my mind. I can go through the
subheadmgs and tell you. In the first place, I don't think this anti-
monopoly coalition means anything.
Mr. Tavenner. Enlarge on that. Why ?
Mr. Burton. Well, I think nobody needs the Commimist Party to
tell the American people they are antimonopoly.
Mr. Tavenner. Actually speaking, from the Communist viewpoint,
isn't that reference to antimonopoly just another way of opposition
to the free enterprise system in this country ?
Mr. Burton. No, I don't think so.
Mr. Tavenner. In the way in which it was used in the Communist
Party?
Mr. Burton. I think it was an attempt to sort of bring up to date
the popular front line of working with other groups toward a com-
mon objective which, in itself, I don't think is wrong. But as a poli-
tical perspective for any individual party, I thought it was just non-
sense because, in my opinion — again meaning no disrespect for people
who run for office — any political candidate who says, "I am for
monopoly 100 percent" wouldn't stand a show. It doesn't mean any-
thing to me to say that the Communist Party is against monopoly.
I don't know any party who is for monopoly. I saw that as no basis
for a political program.
So there were a whole number of things which were really, in a
sense, the basic line of the party.
I am trying to skim through quickly, if it is of interest to the
committee.
Well, of course, the business on labor, the general slogans of the
Communist Party here are nothing to object to ; they are general pro-
labor slogans, and I am prolabor. An article in the National Discus-
sion Bulletin, on the front page, of November 1956 became one of the
134 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
points under which my position was attacked ; namely, that the Com-
munist Party has no right and no business acting as a group within
anotlier organization ; namely, a trade union m this case. This whole
thing was skirted. Nobody said they were going to do it. But there
was my basic objection stated in print. I just didn't have to take the
floor. Everybody knew where I stood on it.
Then again I say there are immediate things that they put up
there, legislative things. There is nothing that I object to. It is
omissions that I object to.
I certainly agree with their position on winning full citizenship for
the Negro people in this country.
No sense in going through it all. I find some things which point
up some of my differences. Some of this stuff is good public rela-
tions, and you have to be against motherhood to be against here.
I might state that the position developed in this report in relation
to the Communist Party of Russia, although adopted by the conven-
tion, is one which is opposed by the present national leadership of
the Communist Party. I did not disagi-ee with the position put forth
here. I thought there were some mealy-mouthed phrases. I would
have liked to have had a stronger statement but I thought it was prog-
ress at the time in the context of the situation.
Of coulee, this part here is one which I objected to very
strenuously.
An attempt to reach unity where this report speaks about no need
to take a position on Hungary, actually I felt that if the Comrnunist
Party did not take a position on Hungary, it is political suicide;
and I still believe it.
Mr. Tavenner. Dorothy Healey, at a later time, expressed very vig-
orously her disapproval of the execution of Nagy and the whole Com-
munist line against Hungary, but you were not present at that
meeting ?
Mr. Burton. No. I heard about it. Wliether it was in the press
or on television that she stated it, I don't remember; but I heard it.
This thing here, this report here, the question of Hungary was
skirted.
I might say that had the reporter, whoever it was, taken, in my
opinion, a full position on Hungary the way the particular reporter
felt, that convention would have been thrown into turmoil. It was
an attempt to avoid a position that keeps them calm.
Mr. Tavenner. That evasion at that time served the national or-
ganization of the Communist Party in a very substantial way, didn't
it?
Mr. Burton. That was my feeling and that is why I left.
Mr. Tavenner. There were a number of efforts made by the Soviet
Union prior to, and immediately following the Sixteenth National
Convention of the Communist Party, indicating a renewed effort to
control the Communist Party in this country in much the same man-
ner as Duclos in his letter in 1945. That is true, is it not ?
Mr. Burton. I felt that way. I felt that way. I felt that the
promise which was opened up by the wide debate and variance of
opinion in the world Communist movement following the so-called
secret Khrushchev report held great hope, but I soon began to feel
that this was being withdrawn.
COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN gALIFORNIA AREA 135
Mr. Tavenner. And the declaration of the 12 Communist coun-
tries in 1957 was another action of the foreign Communist group
which no doubt influenced you in your attitude?
Mr. Burton. I agreed with the Yugoslavs even though I wasn't
there.
Mr. Tavenner. Yugoslavia was the only Communist coimtry which
would not become a party to it ?
Mr. Burton. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. And the 12-Party Declaration was warmly wel-
comed by the national committee after that committee had been sub-
jected to the full control of the Foster group ?
Mr. Burton. I gather there were some shenanigans about that; al-
though I was not there I gathered what happened. I don't believe
I was in at the time. Maybe I was. I learned about it later any-
way. I gather what happened is that a small group, the resident
committee there, immediately warmly hailed it, to use an old leftwing
cliche, and immediately there were protests from the nonresident
members over various parts of the country. I don't know whether it
was a majority protest, but there was considerable protest. I know
there was some from California. So that's as I remember the situ-
ation.
Mr. Tavenner. Now you expressed very vividly your opposition to
the Communist Party program within labor as being a Communist
Party group within a labor union.
I want to ask you if you take the same view with reference to the
activities of the Communist Party with respect to the Negro question.
Mr. Burton. As a matter of fact, in this article of November
1956, 1 statei very explicitly that a political party to have any validity
in the American scene must function in its own right. Communists
who happen to be trade unionists, who happen to be any other kind
of thing, they will function as trade unionists — just as any other
person may be a Democrat and function as a trade unionist, and
there is no doubt his philosophy will lead him in certain directions;
but it is wrong, it is futile, and it is resented by a member of any
organization to have the feeling that another member has a dual
loyalty. This has been my position all along.
Mr. Tavenner. Not only in the field of labor but in other fields?
Mr. Burton. Any field.
Mr. Tavenner. In connection with the Jewish question as posed
in that report, in connection with the Negro question as posed in that
report, do you not agree ?
Mr. Burton. Yes. Let me put it this way: If I were — I am a
member of a Jewish center organization. I would like to see us reach
the day that, supposing I were a Communist, a Socialist, whatever
it is, I can be a Communist in philosophy, the director of the center
may be a democrat in philosophy, but our first loyalty when we are
in the center or in an organization is that center and that organiza-
tion. When we go to a Communist Party meeting or a Democratic
Party meeting, that is another question that has nothing to do with
the center.
Mr. Tavenner. But you do not believe in the Communist Party
sending you, for instance, as a member in that organization to in-
fluence on behalf of the Communist Party even in cases against the
interest of that organization ?
136 COMMUNISM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA
Mr. Burton. Of course, I have never known it to influence it in the
case against the interests but I don't believe any organization should
do that, Communist Party or anybody else. I don't believe in any
group that is not native to that organization organizing itself as a
group.
Mr. Tavenner. But that has been the great basic plan of the Com-
munist Party in order to capture membership.
Mr. Burton. It is one which I disagree with and stated publicly.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, but it is one ?
Mr. Burton. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. One of the great basic principles upon which the
Communist Party operates ?
Mr. Burton. Yes, and I think it is a futile one. I think the period
has demonstrated that.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you this — it is now getting late. I
think it would be to the advantage of the committee, and to you, if we
are able to talk with you on these general problems a little at leisure,
rather than continuing here at this time in this hearing.
Would you be willing to meet the investigator of the committee
at some time and place that is convenient to you and discuss these
problems which we have been discussing in a more thorough manner?
(Witness confers with counsel. )
Mr. Tavenner. With your counsel present, if he desires.
Mr. Burton. I would very much like to consult my counsel at
length about this.
If I have the power, I would rather postpone my answer, if it is
possible, because I have some questions and some problems that arise
that I would rather discuss with my counsel, if I may.
Mr. WiRiN. We will give you an answer or give Mr. Wheeler an
answer in short order.
Mr. Tavenner. That is all right.
The Chairman. All right.
(Whereupon, at 5 :25 p.m., Wednesday, September 3, the com-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 9:30 a.m., Thursday, September 4,
1958.
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