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Full text of "Special Senate investigation on charges and countercharges involving: Secretary of the Army Robert T. Stevens, John G. Adams, H. Struve Hensel and Senator Joe McCarthy, Roy M. Cohn, and Francis P. Carr. Hearings before the Special Subcommittee on Investigations of the Committee on Government Operations, United States Senate, Eighty-third Congress, second session, pursuant to S. Res. 189 .."



special senate investigation on charges 
and countercharges involving: secre- 
tary of the army robert t. stevens, john 
g. adams, h. struve hensel and senator 
joe McCarthy, roy m. cohn, and 
francis p. carr 



HEARING 

BEFORE THE 

SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON 
INVESTIGATIONS OF THE COMMITTEE ON 

GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS 
UNITED STATES SENATE 

EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 
PURSUANT TO 



S. Res. 189 



PART 40 



MAY 26, 1954 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Government Operations 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
4662( WASHINGTON : 1954 



Superintendent of Documents 

OCT 2 7 1954 



COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS 

JOSEPH R. MCCARTHY, Wisconsin, Chairman 

KARL E. MUNDT, South Dakota JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas 

MARGARET CHASE SMITH, Maine HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington 

HENRY C. DWORSHAK, Idaho JOHN F. KENNEDY, Massachusetts 

EVERETT MCKINLEY DIRKSEN, Illinois STUART SYMINGTON, Missouri 
JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland THOMAS A. BURKE, Ohio 

CHARLES E. POTTER, Michigan 

Richard J. O'Melia, General Counsel 
Walter L. Reynolds, Chief Clerk 



Special Subcommittee on Investigations 

KARL E. MUNDT, South Dakota, Chairman 

EVERETT MCKINLEY DIRKSEN, Illinois JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas 
CHARLES E. POTTER, Michigan HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington 

HENRY C. DWORSHAK, Idaho STUART SYMINGTON, Missouri 

Ray H. Jenkins, Chief Counsel 

Thomas R. Prewitt, Assistant Counsel 

Robert A. Collier, Assistant Counsel 

Solis Horwitz, Assistant Counsel 

Charles A. Maner, Secretary 

II 



CONTENTS 



Page 

Index i 

Testimony of — 

Miller, Capt. Joseph J. M., United States Army 1476 

in 



SPECIAL SENATE INVESTIGATION ON CHARGES AND 
COUNTERCHARGES INVOLVING: SECRETARY OF THE 
ARMY ROBERT T. STEVENS, JOHN G. ADAMS, H. STRUVE 
HENSEL AND SENATOR JOE MCCARTHY, ROY M. COHN, 
AND FRANCIS P. CARR 



WEDNESDAY, MAY 26, 1954 

United States Senate, 
Special Subcommittee on Investigations of the 

Committee on Government Operations, 

Washington, D. C. 

The subcommittee met at 10:10 a. m., pursuant to recess, in the 
caucus room of the Senate Office Building, Senator Karl E. Mundt, 
(chairman) presiding. 

Present : Senator Karl E. Mundt, Republican, South Dakota ; Sena- 
tor Everett McKinley Dirksen, Republican, Illinois ; Senator Charles 
E. Potter, Republican, Michigan; Senator Henry C. Dworshak, Re- 
publican, Idaho; Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas; 
Senator Henry M. Jackson, Democrat, Washington; and Senator 
Stuart Symington, Democrat, Missouri. 

Also present: Ray H. Jenkins, chief counsel to the subcommittee; 
Thomas R. Prewitt, assistant counsel; Ruth Y. Watt, chief clerk. 

Principal participants present: Senator Joseph R. McCarthy, a 
United States Senator from the State of Wisconsin; Roy M. Colin, 
chief counsel to the subcommittee ; Francis P. Carr, executive director 
of the subcommittee ; Joseph N. Welch, special counsel for the Army ; 
James D. St. Clair, special counsel for the Army ; and Frederick P. 
Bryan, counsel to H. Struve Hensel, Assistant Secretary of Defense. 

Senator Mundt. The committee will please come to order. 

The Chair would like to begin by welcoming the guests who have 
come to the committee room., and to admonish them concerning a stand- 
ing committee rule which we are enforcing vigorously. 

I would like to call to the attention of our guests in the rear of the 
room, therefore, the fact that we have a standing committee order 
against any audible manifestations of approval or disapproval of any 
kind at any time during these hearings. The uniformed officers who 
are in the room and the plainclothes men scattered among you have or- 
ders from the committee to immediately and politely escort from the 
room without further notice from the Chair any of our guests who 
choose to violate the conditions under which you entered the room, 
namely, to refrain from any manifestations of approval or dis- 
approval. 

1475 



1476 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

I hope that we will continue to have the splendid cooperation in the 
audience which we have enjoyed throughout these protracted hearings. 

As we had concluded the last witness, we were hearing some of the 
collateral witnesses in the presentation of the Army's side of this 
controversy. 

Counsel Jenkins, I understand there are additional witnesses to be 
heard in the presentation of the position of Mr. Stevens and Mr. 
Adams, and I will ask you therefore to call the next witness. 

Mr. Jenkins. Mr. Chairman, I should like at this time to call Cap- 
tain Miller. 

Senator Mundt. Are you Captain Miller ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir; I am. 

Senator Mundt. Will you stand and be sworn. Do you solemnly 
swear that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Captain Miller. I do, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF CAPT. JOSEPH J. M. MILLER, ACCOMPANIED BY 

LT. GEORGE S. MEISSNER 

Senator Mundt. You may be seated. 

Mr. Jenkins. Subject to your approval, Mr. Chairman, I should 
like Mr. Charles Maner to examine Captain Miller. 

Senator Mundt. That is quite all right. We are happy to have Mr. 
Maner back with us. 

Mr. Maner. Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Mundt. Mr. Maner, you may proceed with the interroga- 
tion of Captain Miller. 

Captain Miller, will you state, please, your full name, your rank, 
and your present assignment? 

Captain Miller. I am Capt. Joseph J. M. Miller. I am the com- 
mander of K Company, the 272d Infantry, which was formerly the 
47th when Private Schine was with my company. 

Mr. Maner. You were company commander in November of 1953, 
sir? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, I was. 

Mr. Maner. State when you first learned that Private Schine 
would be assigned to your company. 

Captain Miller. I was first informed that Private Schine would be 
a member of my company on November 19, 1953, when I was called 
to the office of my regimental commander, together with various other 
officers of the regiment. I was informed that Private Schine was to 
be a member of my company for basic training, and that Private 
Schine was still completing some work for the Senate Permanent 
Subcommittee on Investigations, and that I would be called upon to 
give Private Schine passes at various times to do this work. 

I was further informed that I was not of my own authority au- 
thorized to give Private Schine these passes, but that the authority 
would be communicated to me through channels, and that when such 
authority was communicated to me I was to make Private Schine 
available for this work. 

Mr. Maner. That information was all given to you by your regi- 
mental commander? 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION ]477 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, it was. 

Mr. Maner. Who was your regimental commander at that time? 

Captain Miller. Col. Earl L. Ringler. 

Mr. Maner. That occurred on the 19th of November. Then when 
did vou first see Private Schine ? 

Captain Miller. I first saw Private Schine shortly after lunch 
when the trainees were brought to Company K from the reception 
center. 

Mr. Maner. Was that also on the 19th of November, sir? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, it was. 

Mr. Maner. Did you discuss the matter of passes then with Private 
Schine at that time? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, I did. As soon as the company was 
formed in platoons, I went out to inspect the operation and had 
Private Schine sent to me. I told him to report to the orderly room, 
and when I came in, to report to me in my office. There I discussed 
with Private Schine the fact that I was apprised of the necessity of 
having Private Schine available for frequent passes to complete com- 
mittee work which was then in process. I told him that I was not of 
my own authority to give him these passes, but that such authority 
would be communicated to me through channels, and that whenever 
Private Schine was to go on pass I would make him immediately 
available. I emphasized that it was not my authority to grant him 
passes during the first 4 weeks of basic training. 

Mr. Maner. Was it on this occasion, Captain Miller, that Private 
Schine made some offers to you about some personal assistance that 
he could render you ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir ; it was not. Later in the afternoon 

Mr. Maner. Tell about that occasion, then, if you will, Captain 
Miller. 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir ; that occasion occurred later in the after- 
noon. When I was passing through the barracks to see how the 
trainees were coming along with their housekeeping accommodations, 
I passed through the 3d platoon where Private Schine was assigned, 
and upon passing through the lower floor, Private Schine was at his 
bunk, getting his things in order, and because I had been notified that 
Private Schine was to go on pass that day, I inquired to see how he 
was coming along with his arrangement of his bunk area and getting 
his equipment in order, so that his pass for the weekend would not 
interfere with the commencement of training on Monday morning. 
During this conversation, Private Schine asked me or told me, rather, 
that if I ever wanted to make a little trip to Florida, that he knew a 
Colonel Bradley, but here I cut him off in the middle of the sentence. 

Mr. Maner. Did he state who Colonel Bradley was ? 

Captain Miller. Sir, at that time I didn't know who Colonel Brad- 
ley was, but because of the remark I made inquiries to find out who 
this Colonel Bradley could possibly be and whether he was assigned to 
the post. I didn't learn until 2 months later that Colonel Bradley was 
actually of McGuire Air Force Base. 

Mr. Maner. Go ahead and describe the incident further. 

Captain Miller. Further than that, I told Private Schine that it 
was improper for officers to accept any kind of favors or any kind of 
gifts from trainees or enlisted persons because it would put them in a 



1478 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

bad position as far as their enforcement of discipline ; it would com- 
promise their position as officers in the Army. 

Mr. Maner. Were there other incidents when Private Schine ap- 
proached you with similar offers of assistance ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir ; there were not. And this offer of asisst- 
ance was the only occasion. I felt at that time that an admonition, a 
reminder, that it wasn't proper for officers to accept favors of this type 
was sufficient, and there was never a recurrence. 

Mr. Maner. Have you ever had other privates in your command 
offer favors to you ? 

Captain Miller. No ; I have not, sir. 

Mr. Maner. I will ask you if, during the time Private Schine was 
in your command, you granted him any preferential treatment, disre- 
garding the passes? All those passes were issued on orders from 
higher authority, were they not ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir. That bears some explanation. All of 
the passes were not issued on orders of higher authority. I granted 
three passes of my own authority by company policy. 

Mr. Maner. Those are passes which are granted to all trainees; is 
that correct? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir ; they are, on various merits. 

Mr. Maner. But other than those three passes, all passes were 
granted on orders from higher authority, were they not ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, they were. 

Mr. Maner. Now, other than the granting of those passes, which 
were granted on orders from higher authority, did Private Schine 
receive any preferential treatment while he was in your command ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir. To my knowledge, Private Schine re- 
ceived no preferential treatment other than that necessary to make 
him available for this committee business. 

Mr. Maner. There have been some allegations about his riding to 
the rifle range in the cab of trucks and some other things. Do you 
know anything about those allegations ? 

Captain Miller. I know, sir, of some of those allegations because I 
personally participated in them, in the incidents. 

Mr. Maner. With which instance are you familiar, then, Captain 
Miller? 

Captain Miller. It would be necessary for you to mention the in- 
cident, sir, and then I could go into them. However, much of the 
material in those allegations came to light after the training cycle was 
finished and because of certain reports to newspapers by trainees in 
tke company. They included information which would not ordinarily 
be available to me unless it were reported. 

Mr. Maner. You do not personally supervise the training; is that 
correct ? 

Captain Miller. I am responsible for the training in the company. 
However, I have 250 men, sir, and I have the overall responsibility. 
It is, however, delegated. 

Mr. Maner. The actual training is in the hands of a platoon ser- 
geant ; is that correct ? 

Captain Miller. Platoon sergeant, I had a platoon officer with me, 
and there are also instructors provided by the regiment, who also aid 
in the training. 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1479 

Mr. Maker. The allegation in particular that Private Schine rode 
to the rifle range when other trainees were walking ; do you know any- 
thing about that? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. On the morning of December 14, 1 had 
sent the rest of the trainees out to the range on the available transpor- 
tation, 2 1 /2-te>n trucks. After signing the morning reports, about 6 : 30 
in the morning, I proceeded to go to the range myself. When I passed 
the mess hall there was one of my trucks parked with the motor run- 
ning. This was unusual, because I had directed that the transporta- 
tion was to return directly to the motor pool upon completing the 
transfer of the trainees from the company area to the range. 

I went around to the driver's side of the truck to admonish the 
driver for not returning directly to the motor pool. I did so, and 
then noticed that there was another soldier sitting in the truck on the 
other side. I looked through the truck and saw that it was Private 
Schine. I thereupon asked Private Schine what he was doing riding 
back and forth from the range in the truck while the rest of his train- 
ees, fellow trainees, were at the range being formed to firing orders, 
preparing to fire. 

I was especially annoyed that morning because it was raining 
heavily. 

Mr. Cohn. Mr. Chairman, just a brief point, if I may. 

S?nator Mundt. A point of order? 

Mr. Cohn. Yes, sir; I missed a little bit here. Do I understand 
Captain Miller to be testifying about some incident of preferential 
treatment or some request made by myself, Senator McCarthy, or 
Mr. Carr or anyone connected with the committee, and bearing on the 
proceedings being held here in this room ? I didn't understand that. 

Mr. Maner. Mr. Chairman, we expect to show later whether or not 
that was as a result of any request. 

Mr. Cohn. I wonder, Mr. Maner, if you can inquire of Captain 
Miller whether or not he ever met Senator McCarthy, myself, or Mr. 
Carr, or anyone from the committee staff, and whether or not he ever 
received any request from any of us to do anything for Private Schine. 

Mr. Maner. I have every intention to do that in time. 

Senator Mundt. That will be done. The Chair believes that the 
committee is not particularly interested in any preferential treatment 
for Private Schine that might have originated with the Army. We 
are interested in any which might have originated as a result of a com- 
mittee request. 

Mr. Maner. Will you proceed, Captain Miller? 

Captain Miller. I believe that I was at the portion of the incident 
where I was asking Private Schine what he was doing riding back 
and forth from the range in the truck. Private Schine thereupon told 
me that he was studying logistics. That comment was 

Senator McCarthy. Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Mundt. Have you a point of order ? 

Senator McCarthy. I have a point of something. I understand 
this witness would be called — this may be very funny, and it may be 
a good show whether Schine rode in the cab or the back of the truck. 
Unless this has something to do with a request for special privilege, 
it is completely improper. May I say if this witness goes on and con- 

46620 •— 54— pt. 40 2 



1480 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

tinues to testify about whether Schine rode in the cab or the back of 
a truck and conversations he has had with him, it will mean if we are 
going into those issues that I will have to call a number of officers 
to show the animosity, the personal dislike between this witness and 
Mr. Schine. If he sticks to the issues, I won't have to do that. He is 
not sticking to the issues now. As I say, it may be funny. It may 
be a good show, but I would suggest to the chairman that the Chair 
has got to decide what is relevant and what is not. 

Senator Mundt. Associate counsel, Mr. Cohn, before you came in, 
raised the same point, and the Chair stated, and the counsel stated, 
that they are going to prove by interrogatories whether or not this 
is relevant, whether it occurred, and whether or not it resulted from 
anything suggested by members of your committee. 

Senator McCarthy. Mr. Chairman, the Chair has asked me, and I 
have acceded in shortening my examination of witnesses and cutting 
down our witnesses to a very minimum, with the understanding, of 
course, that we would stick to the issues. The Chair has a heavy duty 
here, and that is to determine first whether or not the man is testify- 
ing to anything relevant. 

Mr. Chairman, unless Mr. Cohn or myself or Mr. Carr or someone 
connected with us asked that Mr. Schine study logistics or ride in 
the cab on a rainy day or complain about the cold, it is just a com- 
plete waste of time, and it will mean if we are going into those 
irrelevant matters we can't let them stand. We will have to call wit- 
nesses on the other side to prove why the colonel is here. That is all. 

Senator Mundt. Counsel is going to proceed and demonstrate 
whether this is relevant or not. The counsel has to ask these questions 
in his own way. 

Mr. Maner? 

Mr. Maner. Proceed, Captain Miller. 

Mr. Cohn. May I ask this again, sir ? I think we can save a lot of 
time. Could Mr. Maner ask first 

Senator Mundt. The Chair believes Mr. Maner has a right to ask 
the questions in the manner he thinks best. 

Mr. Cohn. May I ask a question on the point of relevancy and mate- 
riality % Is that a proper point of order ? 

Senator Mundt. It may bo made during the course of the inter- 
rogatories, and if it is not made you may bring it up at that time. 

Senator McCarthy. I am spending this time not only on this wit- 
ness but on other witnesses who I assume will be called. I think rather 
than spend 2 hours, and then ask whether or not the material is rele- 
vant, and then ask whether or not it was as a result of acts on the part 
of this committee, I think the Chair should determine that to begin 
with. 

Senator Mundt. There is no question in the Chair's mind up to this 
point that the discussion of a cab ride is relevant, because it was dis- 
cussed both by your side of the table and the other many times up to 
now. We are trying to determine the facts as to relevancy at this point. 

Senator McCarthy. Mr. Chairman, this is the last. I do think the 
Chair should, to begin with, before he spends an hour with the wit- 
ness, find out whether or not there were any requests from any member 
of this committee to the colonel, to the captain. If not, this is com- 
pletely irrelevant. If you want to spend 2 hours first and then find 
out it is irrelevant, go right ahead. 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1481 

Senator Mundt. We will try to do it in less than 2 hours. 

Mr. Maner? 

Mr. Maner. I promise it will be less than 2 hours. 

Captain Miller, will you proceed ? 

Captain Miller. I believe I asked Private Schine what he was doing 
in the cab of the truck, and Private Schine said he was studying logis- 
tics. I asked Private Schine how he presumed to study logistics while 
the rest of the trainees were out on the range being formed into firing 
order, preparing to fire. I instructed the driver to take Private Schine 
immediately to the range and then return to the motor pool. 

Mr. Maner. Was that done, sir ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir; that was done. 

Mr. Maner. Did you ever have any contact whatever, personally, 
by telephone or other vvise, either with Senator McCarthy or any mem- 
ber of his staff? 

Captain Miller. No, sir; I did not. 

Mr. Maner. Did you ever see them other than here in this room ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir. 

Mr. Maner. That includes Senator McCarthy and Mr. Cohn and 
Mr. Carr and the other members of the staff 3 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Maner. Did any one of those gentlemen ever ask you, directly or 
indirectly, for any type of preferential treatment for Private Schine? 

Captain Miller. No, sir. 

Mr. Maner. Did you ever grant any preferential treatment to Pri- 
vate Schine? 

Captain Miller. I believe that question was asked previously, and I 
stated that in making Private Schine available for committee busi- 
ness 

Mr. Maner. Disregarding making him available for committee 
business, did you ever grant him any special privileges of any kind? 

Captain Miller. No, sir; I did not. 

Mr. Maner. Did you ever grant any trainee any special privileges? 

Captain Miller. No, sir; I did not. 

Mr. Maner. Do you know anything else that occurred up there 
that would have any bearing on the issues in controversy here f 

Captain Miller. I would be prepared to answer any questions put 
by members of the committee, but I am not a judge as to the relevancy 
of any of the material which I may present this morning, sir. 

Mr. Maner. On this occasion you were describing when you found 
him in the cab of the truck, did he make any statement to you as to 
what his purposes were at Fort Dix other than to state that he was 
studying logistics? 

Captain Miller. No, sir. That occurred later in the morning. 

Mr. Maner. On the same day? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Maner. Describe that incident, Captain Miller. 

Captain Miller. When I arrived at the range after having sent 
Private Schine out on the truck, I found that Private Schine was 
discussing something with the field first sergeant. I came up to them 
and determined that Private Schine was trying to get placed in an 
earlier firing order so that he might be finished early. It was not 
apparent to me at that time that there was any particular reason for 
this because no authority for a pass for that evening was then com- 



1482 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

municated to me, and unless it were there would be no reason for 
giving Private Schine any preference in the handling of his training 
for the day. 

I had further advised Private Schine upon his first day in the com- 
pany that he was to ask no favors from the cadre of the company 
because they were authorized to grant him no favors. I wanted to 
take that responsibility myself. 

I had further advised the cadre at the meeting on the first day that 
they were to do nothing for Private Schine in the way of favors but 
were to refer all his requests to me. 

Therefore, the field first sergeant was being compromised on that 
morning. 

I told Private Schine that he should not have approached the field 
first sergeant for any favors because both he and the sergeant knew 
that nothing was to be done without 1113^ authority. I was admonish- 
ing him for this, and he asked me if it might not be possible to lower 
my voice. I must admit that I was angry at the time. I continued 
to admonish Private Schine, and he put his hand on my shoulder in 
an attempt to draw me aside. I pushed his hand away. However, 
since the rest of the troop were preparing to march up to the firing 
line I stepped aside with Private Schine. He thereupon told me 
that our relations had been good up to this time and that he enjoyed 
being with the company, and that he did not like to have instances 
of the kind occur that happened earlier in the morning and had just 
happened, that they were embarrassing to him. 

He told me that he would like us to have good relations in the 
future. 

He thereupon told me that it was his purpose to remake the Ameri- 
can Military Establishment along modern lines. He elaborated 
somewhat on this item, but I largely ignored the conversation. It 
seemed a little ridiculous to me. 

I told Private Schine to close the discussion, that he could only 
keep our relations good in the future by following my orders and 
policies in the company. 

Mr. Maner. Did he state from whom he had authority to modernize 
the Army? 

Captain Miller. No, sir ; I didn't inquire along this line. 

Mr. Maker. Did you ever, other than to grant Private Schine 
passes when they were authorized from higher authority, relieve him 
from duty that he was to perform, either in training or other than 
training? 

Captain Miller. Would you please repeat that question, sir ? 

Mr. Maner. Other than to grant him these passes which you were 
authorized by higher authority to grant, did you ever relieve Private 
Schine from any duty of any kind, k. p. duty or any other duty ? 

Captain Miller. There were two incidents of this type. The first 
instance was on the 8th of December. Private Schine was on k. p. 
and had to be relieved from k. p. at 1 o'clock in the afternoon for 
the purpose of attending a makeup class on troop information 
program. 

Mr. Maner. That was in connection with his training, however, 
was it not? 

Captain Miller. Yes, it was. 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1483 

Mr. Maner. And it was necessary for him to make up that training 
which he had missed ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, it was. 

Mr. Maner. Other than that, did you ever relieve him from k. p. 
or any other duty that he was required to perform at Fort Dix ? 

Captain Miller. An incident occurred on the 10th of January which 
was a result of an inadvertent administrative error within the com- 
pany. Private Schine was scheduled for KP on the 10th of January, 
and* because I intended to be absent that weekend, and because it may 
be possible for Private Schine to receive a pass that weekend as he 
had received one on each other weekend, I had prepared an order 
which would place the next most available man on KP on Sunday in 
the event Private Schine was relieved. This, I am sorry to say, was 
inadvertently posted on the bulletin board and resulted in some con- 
fusion on Sunday, in which it was necessary for the regimental com- 
mander to grant Private Schine a pass, and relieve him from the KP 
detail. 

Mr. Maner. You do not regard either of those instances as con- 
stituting preferential treatment, do you, Captain ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir ; I do not. 

Mr. Maner. Did you ever relieve him from anything that he was 
supposed to do in connection with his training ? In other words, did 
he go through the same training as every other soldier at Fort Dix^ 

Captain Miller. Private Schine completed all the prescribed train- 
ing necessary to make a well-rounded soldier during the first 8 weeks 
of training. 

Mr. Maner. Is there anything else you know concerning Private 
Schine's tour of duty at Fort Dix that has any bearing here ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir ; there is not. 

Mr. Maner. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Mundt. Captain Miller, I want to recapitulate with you, 
if I can, the relevant portions of your testimony. I am not just sure 
why Mr. Welch asked that you be called as a witness unless it is to 
show that preferential treatment was accorded to Private Schine at 
the insistence or under the threats of Senator McCarthy or Mr. Cohn 
or Mr. Carr, because quite obviously, this committee is not interested 
in any preferential treatment which might have been given to any of 
the thirty-thousand-odd privates at Fort Dix, because of errors in 
judgment on the part of the Army. If it is a confession of error, that 
is not of our concern. We are not investigating the Army. If the 
Army made some mistakes in its accounting system, or system of rec- 
ords, if it made some mistakes about letting people ride in the cabs of 
trucks, those are not the concern of this committee unless you can 
show, and those are the questions I am going to ask you, that those 
concessions occurred because the Army was afraid of Senator 
McCarthy and his staff, or that the Army had been ordered to do so. 
If you want to say that, then, of course, you have a perfect right to 
do so, and I presume that is the relevant part of your testimony. 

So, let me ask you, sir, whether you have any evidence at all that 
whoever permitted Private Schine to ride in the cab of that truck did 
so because of fear of Senator McCarthy's committee or under orders 
of Senator McCarthy's committee, or whether it was an Army deter- 
mination ? 



1484 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

Captain Miller. This was the result of an effort or an inadvertency 
on Private Sehine's part to create the impression that he was at Fort 
Dix other than for basic training. The question was not asked me 
that way. I was not asked whether this 

Senator Mundt. I am trying to find out the relevant portions, now, 
of Private Sehine's ride in the cab, whether it grew out of the fact that 
you had received, or some of your superiors, or some of your lesser 
officers had received orders from somebody to give Private Schine 
preferential treatment. 

Captain Miller. No, sir ; I would say that that incident grew out of 
no orders or directions from higher headquarters to give any preferen- 
tial treatment to Private Schine. 

Senator Mundt. Was it because in your opinion there was a sort of 
fear on the part of the officers at Fort Dix of the McCarthy committee, 
so that they were making concessions to Private Schine, according to 
fear of McCarthy and Carr ; is that your honest opinion ? 

Captain Miller. My honest opinion on that, sir, is based upon ma- 
terial that I gathered after basic training was completed. I find that 
there was some reluctance upon the part of the cadre and other trainees 
to interfere with the activities of Private Schine. Although they 
had no directions to do this, they did, however 

Senator Mundt. Would that reluctance come from people over you 
or under you? 

Captain Miller. From people under me, sir. 

Senator Mundt. Did you order them to demonstrate such re- 
luctance ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir ; I did not. 

Senator Mundt. Did you have such reluctance yourself ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir ; I did not. 

Senator Mundt. Did anything channel through you from your 
superior officers or direct from the McCarthy staff indicating that you 
should tell your inferiors that they should have a reluctance in dealing 
with Schine? 

Captain Miller. No, sir. 

Senator Mundt. So if they had a reluctance it was specifically due 
to the relationship between Schine and the cadre ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Senator Mundt. Now, let me ask you this : I am not quite sure of the 
special favor that you said Private Schine offered to convey at the 
foot of the bunk one clay. You said you had stopped before him and 
he said, "Captain, if you are ever going to be in Florida, I know a Colo- 
nel Bradley" — then my attention was diverted. What did he offer 
to do \ 

Captain Miller. The offer, sir, was if I ever wanted to make a little 
trip to Florida, Private Schine knew a Colonel Bradley and — at this 
part of the quotation I cut Private Schine off because it was not the 
policy for officers to receive favors from trainees. 

Senator Mundt. I think you were quite right in cutting him off. 
But I wonder if you have in mind what offer he had in mind. Was 
it that Colonel Bradley had a nice sister he might introduce to you, 
or that Colonel Bradley might manage a hotel, or that Colonel Bradley 
might have to be there and he wished you to convey his greetings to 
him, or what was the favor? 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1485 

Captain Miller. I couldn't state what the favor was, because I 
wasn't interested in finding out what it was. 

Senator Mundt. You are not sure whether he was going to convey 
a favor or not, because you cut him off, and appropriately so, but you 
cut him off and he didn't state it; is that right S 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Senator Mundt. But the favor is something that looms up in your 
imagination, you assume he was going to ask one, that he might have 
asked one, I don't know. But it is entirely possible that he might 
have asked for you to convey his greetings to Colonel Bradley, or that 
Colonel Bradley knows some places down there where you could go 
down and get acquainted with some folks or something of that kind. 
You don't know what he was going to say. He might have said Colonel 
Bradley owns a hotel, or he was going to let you have a suite of hotel 
rooms. You don't know. 

Captain Miller. I couldn't draw that hypothesis. Colonel Bradley 
is at the McGuire Air Force Base. There could be only one connection, 
and that would be transportation. 

Senator Mundt. Did you know that Colonel Bradley was at the 
Air Force base ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir ; I determined that later. 

Senator Mundt. You thought in retrospect that Colonel Bradley 
would provide transportation to Florida % 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir ; so it would have no connection with girls. 

Senator Mundt. O. K, I was trying to find out if you stopped him 
with the word and, you foreclosed the committee from finding out 
what he had in mind, at the same time foreclosing yourself. Those 
are all the questions, I guess. 

Senator McClellan ? 

Senator McClellan. How long had you known Private Schine be- 
fore he made this suggestion to you about a Florida trip ? 

Captain Miller. About an hour, sir. 

Senator McClellan. About an hour. Why did you have to advise 
Private Schine that he was not to ask favors of others under your 
command ? 

Captain Miller. I felt, sir, that the position which Private Schine 
had with the subcommittee necessitated my handling the matter di- 
rectly and also the fact that Private Schine would be granted frequent 
passes. I felt that anything in connection with that should be handled 
by me personally so that the thing would run smoothly. On the other 
hand, I was afraid that the cadre might, because of Private Schine's 
connection with an important committee of our Senate, have some 
tendency to perform favors, and I didn't want them to do anything of 
that type and compromise themselves. 

Senator McClellan. You were just taking precautions? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir ; I was. 

Senator McClellan. Did you have to take such precautions with 
other privates ? 

Captain Miller. I never had another Private Schine, sir. 

Senator McClellan. That precaution that you had to take and the 
instructions you gave were out of the ordinary, in your experience? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir ; they were. 



148G SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

Senator McClellan. You spoke about him advising you that lie 
was down there to study logistics, I believe you said. 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Senator McClellan. And also to reorganize the Army and get it up 
to modern standards. 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Senator McClellan. Is that correct? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Senator McClellan. Then you said — first, let me ask you, had you 
ever given any instructions to him or given him any assignment of 
such duties as that? 

Captain Miller. No, sir, I had not. 

Senator McClellan. Do you know where he got such an assign- 
ment ? 

Captain Miller. I have no idea, sir. 

Senator McClellan. Do you know whether he had any such as- 
signment ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir, but there were other indications by Pri- 
vate Schine that he had a purpose at Fort Dix other than basic train- 
ing, and which was connected with investigation. 

Senator McClellan. Would you elaborate on that ? Let's see what 
that is. 

Captain Miller. I will try to, sir. 

Senator McClellan. All right. 

Captain Miller. On the 4th of January, Private Schine was sent 
back to the company from regimental headquarters after it had been 
directed that he was to perform KP on the following Sunday. At 
that time my unit administrator had him in his office and discussed 
disciplinary problems with Private Schine. 

Senator McClellan. What disciplinary problems? 

Captain Miller. It was in connection with a pass on New Year's, 
sir. However, the incident bearing on the question which you asked 
previously: Private Schine stated to my unit administrator that it 
would be unwise to put him on K. P. on any more weekends because 
he would be on pass and would not be present to take such K. P. 
assignments ; and furthermore, that 

Senator McClellan. Was that a violation of your instructions to 
him ? 

Captain Miller. It was approximately a half hour after it was 
directed that he was to have K. P. for the following weekend. 

Senator McClellan. I know, but I thought you had previously 
instructed him not to take up these matters with others under your 
command, but to talk to you directly about such things. 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, that would be another instance. 

Senator McClellan. I understand. Was this a violation of the 
instructions you had given him ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Senator McClellan. All right. Proceed. 

Captain Miller. Private Schine said that he was working on re- 
ports all the time, and submitting them constantly, and while they 
didn't affect the company to any great extent, he would mention me 
2 or 3 times in his reports. 

Senator McClellan. Who was he reporting to ? 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1487 

Captain Miller. I don't know, sir. 

Senator McClellan. But he was giving you the impression that 
he was there for other purposes aside from getting some basic 
training ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Senator McClellan. And that he was reporting to some higher 
authority on the conduct of the Army there at the base? 

Captain Miller. It would seem there would be that logical con- 
nection. I had no other previous connection with Private Schine 
other than through basic training. 

Senator McClellan. He did say he would mention you personally 
2 or 3 times in his report ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, he did. 

Senator McClellan. About what ? What was he going to mention 
you about? 

Captain Miller. I don't know, sir. 

Senator McClellan. All right. Proceed. 

Captain Miller. On the 19th of November when I oriented Private 
Schine on the pass policy and instructed Private Schine to sign out 
each time he went on pass, in the orderly room, in a signout book 
which was in the public office section of the orderly room, he asked 
me if that were not a little obvious. 

Senator McClellan. A little obvious? 

Captain Miller. I thereupon informed Private Schine that I didn't 
consider it obvious ; that the passes which I discussed with him would 
be official and communicated to me through channels, and I saw no 
reason why he should not use the signout book, because that was the 
proper procedure when a man was going on pass. 

On the 5th of November — on the 5th of January, rather I had oc- 
casion to deliver a message to Private Schine to make a committee 
telephone call. At that time I told Private Schine that I had been 
informed that he was to be transferred to Camp Gordon for basic 
training, and that as far as I could determine — for further basic 
training, and that as far as I could determine he was an ordinary 
trainee and had no purpose at Fort Dix other than basic training. 

Private Schine then informed me that at his next assignment, Camp 
Gordon, he would no doubt be classified as an observer so that he 
wouldn't have the difficulties he had at Fort Dix. 

Senator McClellan. Captain, are you the one who rated him as a 
soldier? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, I am. 

Senator McClellan. You gave him a good rating, an excellent 
rating, I believe, as a soldier? 

Captain Miller. I gave Private Schine a "superior" in training. 

Senator McClellan. "Superior" in training. He did make a good 
soldier? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. I felt that in spite of the frequent passes 
and committee meetings on post, that Private Schine had applied 
himself well to the training. In fact, during the range firing week, 
Private Schine fired a score of 204, which was especially good for 
the winter firing. 

Senator McClellan. Captain, I assume you have related now 
about all the incidents that occurred, have you ?, 

46620°— 54— pt. 40 3 



1488 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, the incidents of the type that you men- 
tioned. Those are the ones which I remember, sir. 

Senator McClellan. As you evaluate the incidents, would you 
say that Private Schine himself sought preferential treatment? 

Captain Miller. The morning when Private Schine attempted to 
get moved to an earlier firing order was, to my mind, an instance 
of seeking preferential treatment on his part. 

Senator McClellan. Did you have the same problem with other 
privates during the course of his training ? 

Captain Miller. There are other instances where privates make 
requests to the company commander or to cadremen which do not 
come to my attention especially. 

Senator McClellan. I am trying to get the facts. If there is 
nothing unusual about this, let's say so. 

Captain Miller. There was something unusual about it, because 
I had instructed Private Schine not to ask any favors of the cadre. 

Senator McClellan. The point I make is, let's be fair to Private 
Schine. If Private Schine did what the ordinary private might do 
under the circumstances, let's say so. If it is out of the ordinary, then 
I think maybe it has some bearing. 

Captain Miller. It was out of the ordinary, sir, because Private 
Schine was instructed by me not to seek such favors from the cadre, 
and the cadre, I told Private Schine, were instructed not to grant him 
any favors. 

Senator McClellan. Did you instruct other privates as you did 
Private Schine? 

Captain Miller. There were not the problems with other privates, 
sir. 

Senator McClellan. Why did you not instruct other privates? 
Why didn't you give them the same instructions you gave Private 
Schine ? 

Captain Miller. Because there were not similar circumstances con- 
nected with their being at Fort Dix, sir. 

Senator McClellan. A different set of circumstances developed 
with respect to Private Schine which necessitated according to your 
judgment, the giving of the instructions you gave ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Senator McClellan. Those circumstances did not develop with 
respect to other privates. 

Captain Miller. No, sir; they did not. 

Senator McClellan. That is all. 

Senator Mtjndt. Senator Symington has suggested that the Chair 
neglected to have the young man identified who is at your right. Will 
you tell us who he is ? If he is your counsel, his name and so forth. 

Captain Miller. The officer is Lt. George S. Meissner. 

Senator Mtjndt. Will you spell it, please? 

Captain Miller. M-e-i-s-s-n-e-r. He is my counsel. He is from 
Fort Dix and knows the details of my testimony, sir. 

Senator Mundt. Thank you. 

Senator Potter ? 

Senator Potter. Captain Miller, one of the allegations made in 
the report by Senator McCarthy and Mr. Colin and Mr. Carr is 
that Private Schine did not receive preferential treatment but 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1489 

in fact was in some cases discriminated against because of his former 
association with this committee. You were his company commander 
at Fort Dix. You have stated in answer to Senator McClellairs 
question that Private Schine was treated different from any other 
privates of your company. Would you say that Private Schine was 
discriminated against because he was a so-called hot private? 

Captain Miller. No, sir; I would say not. You may possibly con- 
strue the fact that I told him to seek no favors from the cadre as such 
discrimination. However, since Private Schine was to have these 
frequent passes and it would be necessary for me to make judgment 
as to when he was to be — how his training was to be conducted during 
the day in order to make him available, it was necessary for me to 
handlethis personally and I didn't want one of my subordinates taking 
the responsibility for a decision of this type. 

Senator Potter. But did Private Schine enjoy the same relation- 
ships with the sergeants and the platoon leaders as other privates? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir; he did. 

Senator Potter. Captain, as company commander, you were re- 
sponsible for giving Private Schine his efficiency rating, is that cor- 
rect ? 

Captain Miller. That is correct, sir. 

Senator Potter. And I believe you stated that he received a su- 
perior or excellent rating? 

Captain Miller. A superior in training. 

Senator Potter. Which is the highest rating that a soldier can 
receive, is that correct? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Senator Potter. I also understand from the testimony that was 
given yesterday, that Private Schine received a fair rating on his 
character rating, is that correct? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, that is correct. 

Senator Potter. Was it your responsibility to give him that, to give 
Private Schine the character rating ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, it was. 

Senator Potter. Can you give the committee the basis for the fair, 
which is not the best rating that a person can receive for character ? 
Can you give the committee your reasons for that rating ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. I can. It was my overall judgment of 
Private Schines's attitude toward me, and toward Army life and 
toward discipline while he was at Fort Dix. I must say that it was 
my judgment and I stand by the judgment. I base it upon the various 
incidents I had with Private Schine, the attitude Private Schine 
created in the company, and as a result of his statements and activities, 
and that is my judgment. 

On the basis of this, I must go into an incident concerning New 
Years Eve. 

Senator Potter. Please do so. 

Captain Miller. The policy in the company was to grant the train- 
ees a pass on either Christmas or New Years, but not both. Some- 
time prior to the Christmas holiday, I had Private Schine in my of- 
fice and inquired of Private Schine whether or not he would be willing 
to volunteer to take details during the Christmas holiday so that a 
maximum of soldiers of the Christian faith could take their passes on 
Christmas, and the balance receive their passes on New Year's. 



1490 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

Private Schine informed me at that time that he expected to be 
working on both weekends and that I would no doubt hear about these 
passes through channels, as I had always done on previous passes. I 
reminded Schine that I was authorized to give him a pass on only one 
of the weekends but not both. 

I made out the Christmas and New Year's pass list personally, be- 
cause I felt that it was an item that was important to each soldier in 
the company. I placed a soldier on either the Christmas or New Years 
weekend, on the basis of the details, K. P. and guard duty, which are 
rostered, and which would accrue to each trainee in the company. 

Private Schine, by virtue of the guard roster, was due for guard 
on New Year's Eve, December 31, and, therefore, I gave Private 
Schine his pass on Christmas holiday. 

But 3 days before the Christmas holidays, I called each of the 
platoons into a formation and personally informed each trainee what 
was to be the holiday on which he would receive a pass. When I had 
Private Schine's platoon before me, I called Private Schine's name and 
stated that he would have a pass on the Christmas holiday. Upon com- 
pleting the list of passes for Private Schine's platoon, I informed them 
that their positions on the pass roster was determined by virtue of the 
details which they Avere due to receive on either Christmas or New 
Year's. 

The pass list for Christmas was posted on the bulletin board. 
Private Schine's name was listed for the Christmas pass. Private 
Schine went on pass for Christmas. 

The NeAV Year's pass list was posted on the bulletin board likewise, 
during the week preceding the New Year's holiday. Private Schine's 
name Avas not listed. Private Schine's name was listed on the guard 
roster for December 31, 1953. 

About 9 o'clock in the morning on December 31, 1 ay as in the orderly 
room on company business, and the first sergeant told me that he had 
spoken with Private Schine the evening before, and had reminded 
Private Schine that he Avas on K. P., or on guard duty, rather, for New 
Year's Eve. Private Schine told the first sergeant that he had spoken 
to me about this matter and that he had expected to be on pass that 
day. The first sergeant reported this to me and I told the first ser- 
geant that Private Schine had not spoken to me about this guard duty 
detail and that I had not authorized the pass, and I had not been in- 
formed by higher headquarters that a pass Avas due for Private Schine 
for that day. 

I therefore placed a call to Lieutenant Blount, General Kyan's aide, 
and inquired whether a pass had been authorized for Private Schine 
for the NeAV Year's Aveekend. Lieutenant Blount told me that he 
would inquire of General Ryan and call me back. He called me back 
and stated that a pass had not been authorized by General Ryan for 
the NeAV Year's Aveekend. 

I therefore sent to the training area for Private Schine, and since 
he was not present there, I further inquired and determined that 
Private Schine had been sent to the photograph laboratory to have an 
identification photo taken. I found the name of the corporal in charge 
of the detail and determined that Private Schine had gone to the 
laboratory, had returned, and was sent into the barracks to get 
changed into his field clothing in order to go back out to the training 
area. 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1491 

Senator McCarthy. Mr. Chairman? 

Senator Mundt. Senator McCarthy. 

Senator McCarthy. A question of the Chair : Does the Chair feel 
that this testimony is relevant to the issues ? 

Senator Mundt. I am waiting patiently to find out when he con- 
cludes the statement. The Chair does not know. It may be and it 
may not be. 

Senator McCarthy. I may say, Mr. Chairman, I think the Chair 
has the duty to determine whether or not this is relevant to the issues. 
The claim here is that our committee exercised undue influence on 
the military. This witness has testified he had no contact directly or 
indirectly with any part of our committee. He is now recounting 
events in the private life of David Schine. I am not going to sit 
here and listen to it. May I say, Mr. Chairman, we have much more 
important work to do. We should be investigating Communists. 
There is a great backlog of work. We have about 130 in the defense 
plants as of this moment. I will go back to my office and will the 
Chair or someone call me when we get through with this drivel. 

Senator Mundt. The Chair would like to say that he does believe 
that the testimony about the New Year's pass should be related to 
whether or not it was secured, if secured at all, at the suggestion of 
the committee staff. The Chair has said previously we are not inves- 
tigating errors or mistakes or inaccuracies in Army records. We don't 
want to investigate Fort Dix. 

Senator Potter. Mr. Chairman, my question was related to the 
statement made by the Senator and Mr. Cohn and Mr. Carr, that rather 
than receiving preferential treatment, Private Schine was discrimi- 
nated against in some areas. I was questioning the captain, as to why, 
in view of of the fact that Schine received an excellent or superior 
efficiency rating, he received a much lesser rating as far as character 
was concerned, to determine whether that was a form of discrimina- 
tion or not. That was the purpose of the question. 

Now, I think probably the captain was going into great detail on it. 

Senator McCarthy. Mr. Chairman, I am not objecting to the 
question of Mr. Potter. We had a rule originally set that before a 
witness would be called, there would be a resume of what he will testify 
given to the Chair. The obvious purpose is to determine whether 
or not the testimony is relevant. If this one witness wastes an hour or 
two, that isn't too bad. But I assume that Mr. Welch requested that 
he be present, and he has undoubtedly requested other witnesses of a 
like nature to be present and I am not, Mr. Chairman, going to waste 
my time listening to irrelevant testimony. I think the Chair has an 
obligation to determine whether it is relevant or not. The witness 
should not be wasting the time of all these Army officers back here 
behind him, all the Senators. He is not going to waste my time, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Lieutenant Meissner. Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Mundt. The Chair believes the Senator from Wisconsin 
raises a very valid point and suggests to Senator Potter, rather than 
listen to this long narrative which is getting pretty long, Captain 

Lieutenant Meissner. Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Mundt. We are trying to find out whether or not this is 
something which eventuated as a result of a committee request. 

Senator Symington. The witness' counsel desires the floor. 



1492 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

Lieutenant Meissner. Mr. Chairman, I would merely like to point 
out in all fairness to the witness — evidently the mike is dead. 

Senator Mundt. I can hear you. 

Lieutenant Meissner. In all fairness to the witness, I would like to 
point out that this is the main incident — there were others, but this 
is the main incident on which the character rating was based, and this 
is a matter of record, sir. In other words, the character rating is a 
matter of record, and when a trainee is given a character rating as low 
as the one given to Private Schine, the company commander must 
state why such a rating was given. That is the only reason why Cap- 
tain Miller is relating the events of that incident, sir. 

Senator Potter. Mr. Chairman 

Senator Mundt. General Ryan testified at considerable length on 
both the character rating and the superior rating, but, Senator Potter, 
you may continue. 

Senator Potter. Mr. Chairman, I feel that I have not utilized a 
great deal of the committee's time in asking questions. I think this 
is pertinent to the charges that have been made. If Private Schine 
has been discriminated against, I think the committee should know 
that. That is the reason I am asking the questions. 

If I can have the attention of the committee without anv further 
interruptions I would like to have the captain continue, and if you 
tell it as quickly as possible I would appreciate it. 

Senator Jackson. Might I also mention to my colleague from Mich- 
igan that Mr. Adams testified at some length on this point of the 
granting of two passes on the Christmas weekend and the Near Years 
weekend, and that there was also a telegram from Mr. Cohn and some 
conversation about it. I think it is quite material to this case, because 
it has been gone into in detail previously. 

Mr. Cohn. Mr. Chairman, not to prolong this, but on a previous 
point of order as to relevancy, in response to what Senator Jackson 
says, if Captain Miller had any contact whatsoever with me, with Mr. 
Carr, with Senator McCarthy, or any member of our staff, and if the 
captain thinks we ever asked him for any kind of preferential treat- 
ment or anything else, we want him to tell the committee about it. 

Senator Mundt. I presume Senator Potter is heading to that. 

Go ahead, Senator. 

Senator Potter. No; I am not. I am going to the part where you 
claimed that, rather than receiving preferential treatment, Pri- 
vate Schine was discriminated against. I want to find out whether 
he was discriminated against in this particular case in being given a 
low character rating when at the same time he has a high efficiency 
rating as a soldier, which is a little inconsistent. 

Mr. Cohn. We are not going to take the time of the committee to 
find out whether the efficiency rating or the character rating is too high 
or too low. 

Senator Symington. I suggest that the gratuitous remarks with 
respect to this witness' testimony be eliminated and that the witness 
be allowed to tell his story as other people have been allowed to tell 
their story, and to go ahead with the testimony in this case. 

Senator Mundt. The Chair was endeavoring to let Senator Potter 
continue. 

Go ahead, Senator. 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1493 

Senator Potter. Captain, I haven't the slightest idea where you 
left off, but if you can tie it together as quickly as possible, I would 
appreciate it. 

Captain Miller. After speaking to Lieutenant Blount on the morn- 
ing of December 31, when Lieutenant Blount informed me that a pass 
was not authorized for Private Schine, I tried to locate Private Schine, 
as I previously testified. I could not locate Private Schine. He was 
nowhere in the company area, where he was supposed to be. As is 
usual when someone is not in the places he is supposed to be, I had a 
search conducted for Private Schine in all the buildings in the com- 
pany area. 

When I could not locate Private Schine, I sent someone to the tele- 
phone exchange, where Private Schine would be most likely to be if 
he were not in the company area. Private Schine was not in the 
telephone exchange. 

I therefore determined that Private Schine was at least absent 
without leave from the company area without permission. 

It was then suggested to me by one of the persons present in the 
orderly room that I check the sign-out book. I then did so. It was 
10 : 45 in the morning, and Private Schine had signed out on pass 
to New York City as of 11 : 30 that morning. 

Senator Potter. Without permission ? 

Captain Miller. Without permission from me, without authority 
having been communicated to me through channels, and without my 
having passed such authority on to Private Schine. 

Senator Potter. When did he return? 

Captain Miller. Private Schine returned on Monday morning. 

Senator Potter. What action was taken by you ? 

Captain Miller. Excuse me, sir. He returned at midnight on 
Sunday. 

Senator Potter. What action was taken by you ? What action was 
taken by you in that case ? 

Captain Miller. I reported this matter to my superior officer, sir. 

Senator Potter. What was done about it ? 

Captain Miller. I reported the incident to regimental head- 
quarters, and the incident was thereupon reported to General Ryan 
through his aide, and further in the afternoon about 3 o'clock I am 
told a telephone call was received from Mr. Cohn requesting that 
Private Schine be left at home, that he was engaged in committee 
business and would be working throughout the Aveekend. Therefore, 
Private Schine did not return until Monday morning. 

Senator Potter. Was this in violation of the instructions that you 
had received before that orders were to come down from the top in 
order for him to be excused for committee business ? 

> Captain Miller. Of course, sir, if the commanding general de- 
cided to give Private Schine authority to be absent for that weekend 
because a request had been made to him by a member of the committee, 
it obviously made it possible for Private Schine to be home without 
my authority. 

Senator Mundt. Your time has expired, Senator. 

Senator Jackson. 

Senator Jackson. As I understand, Captain Miller, when a pass 
was granted through higher authority to Private Schine, specific 
procedures had been worked out wherein you were to be notified of 



1494 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

such passes that were not within the normal allotment of the trainees 
in his company. 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir ; that is correct. 

Senator Jackson. Is that correct? 

Captain Miller. That is correct, sir. 

Senator Jackson. In this situation which you are referring to in 
connection with the question put to you by Senator Potter, do 1 under- 
stand that those procedures were violated ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir ; they were. 

Senator Jackson. Will you state specifically wherein they were 
violated ? 

Captain Miller. Private Schine left without having gotten author- 
ity from me. He left the company area without authority. He signed 
out at 11 : 30 while he had left some time prior to 10 : 45. 

Senator Jackson. How long had it been since you advised him of 
those procedures ? 

Captain Miller. I advised Private Schine of those procedures on 
the first day he was in the company, and in my previous testimony I 
reiterated to Private Schine before the Christmas holiday that author- 
ity for passes on both weekends had to be communicated to me through 
channels before Private Schine was to go. 

Senator Jackson. If I understand it, when this occurred you re- 
ported it to your regimental commander or battalion commander. 

Captain Miller. Regimental commander, sir. 

Senator Jackson. Regimental commander. And no courts-martial 
proceedings were instituted, initiated, or commenced? 

Captain Miller. No, sir. 

Senator Jackson. You mentioned something about the attitude 
created in the company in response to a question by Senator Potter. 
What attitude did he create in the company? 

Captain Miller. On the day after the Thanksgiving pass I was get- 
ting a haircut at the regimental barbershop, and the barber reported 
to me that the privates in my company had been discussing Private 
Schine's frequent passes and the fact that they resented them. I felt 
that was a significant indication of the way the trainees felt. 

At various other times the cadre complained to myself or to the 
executive officer about Private Schine's frequent passes. However, I 
didn't consider this of too great importance because Private Schine 
was being made available for committee work, and I certainly was 
not a judge of Privato Schine's necessity for this work. So therefore 
we felt that, although this resentment did exist, Private Schine was 
being made available for important committee work and the passes 
were justified. 

Senator Jackson. I understand from your testimony that Private 
Schine made a good soldier insofar as carrying out the training as- 
signments given to him. In other words, I assume he qualified as an 
expert marksman with the M-l. 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir ; not an expert but very close to expert, a 
very high score for that week of firing. 

Senator Jackson. In any event, I mean as far as carrying out the 
training part of the specific. training assignments, he performed very 
well ? 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1495 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, under the circumstances of his being 
absent in the evening for committee meetings and doing extra work, 
he performed admirably. 

Senator Jackson. But the main difficulty, then, that you found with 
Private Schine was his attitude toward you and the officers and to- 
ward his fellow trainees in general? Or how would you sumarize 
that? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir, that is the way I would summarize it. 
For instance, on the 30th of November, Lieutenant Gabryelski, my 
executive officer, was paying Private Schine and broached to Private 
Schine the morale factor connected with Private Schine's passes, and 
Private Schine said that his work was much more important than the 
morale of the company, and I felt that in passing this remark to 
Lieutenant Gabryelski, the thing got so disturbing in the company 
that I felt it was an unwise statement. 

Again, on the 4th of January, when he was speaking with my unit 
administrator, the unit administrator again mentioned the morale 
factor in the company engendered by Private Schine's activities, 
and the unit administrator mentioned the number of 250 men in the 
company, and Private Schine said that he wasn't worried about the 
morale of 250 men, he was worried about the morale of 160 million 
people. 

That sort of comment I didn't consider in good taste. 

Senator Jackson. Captain, did you or your platoon sergeant in 
his platoon or the platoon leader, the lieutenant, or your executive 
officer, other than what you just mentioned, receive any complaints 
about his attitude and any complaints about morale in the company 
as a result of his being there ? 

Captain Miller. I feel under the circumstances, morale was not 
affected to any great degree, because I had only one a. w. o. 1. during 
the entire training cycle. I had no complaints at all to the regimental 
chaplains concerning anything that went on in the company, and I 
consider that an indication of morale. 

Senator Jackson. You heard the testimony yesterday of Lieutenant 
Blount. Were you here yesterday? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir; I was. 

Senator Jackson. To what do you attribute Mr. Cohn's alleged 
remarks to Lieutenant Blount which Lieutenant Blount testified to, 
by telephone, that you had not treated Schine as he felt he should 
be and that he was not going to forget your name? What do you 
attribute that alleged remark — I say "alleged" because it has only 
been testified to by Lieutenant Blount in connection with a telephone 
conversation that he received from Roy Cohn ? 

Captain Miller. Sir, I could not say. 

Senator Jackson. Was anything done to carry that out that you 
know of? 

Captain Miller. W T ould you specify, sir? 

Senator Jackson. Well, I mean did you hear the testimony yester- 
day in which Lieutenant Blount testified that Mr. Cohn had indi- 
cated that he would not forget your name, and, I believe, Colonel 
Eingler. I assume he is your regimental commander. Maybe there 
was some other name. 

Captain Miller. I see no connection with the statement. 



1496 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

Senator Jackson. With the telephone conversation? Nothing has 
happened? Nothing happened after that alleged conversation as 
far as vou are concerned? 

Captain Miller. No, sir. 

Mr. Cohn. He was promoted, Senator Jackson. 

Senator Jackson. I was just going to say, he is now a captain. 

Captain Miller. I don't consider that significant. It is another 
example of a gratuitous remark which doesn't apply to the matter 
here. 

Senator Jackson. I didn't make the remark, Captain. 

Lieutenant Meissner. I think in all fairness we should point out 
that the whole division was promoted from the 9th Division to the 
69th. 

Senator Jackson. Captain, I think it is fair to say one who com- 
mands a company, under the table of organization, rates the rank of 
a captain. Is that correct ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Senator Jackson. And you were actually doing a captain's job as 
a first lieutenant for a while? Correct? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir ; that is correct, sir. 

Senator Jackson. When did you enter the Army ? 

Captain Miller. I entered the Army first on March 15, 1943, sir. 

Senator Jackson. You have been in continuously since then? 

Captain Miller. No, sir, I have not. I had a period in civilian 
life, pursuing my education at the University of Pennsylvania. I was 
recalled to active duty for the Korean war, before completing my 
work for a degree. 

Senator Jackson. You served in Korea? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Senator Jackson. And in World War II ? 

Captain Miller. In World War II, in Europe, sir. 

Senator Jackson. Were you a platoon leader ? 

Captain Miller. In World War II, I was a combat medic. In 
Korea, I was a platoon leader in the 9th Infantry Kegiment. 

Senator Jackson. That is all. 

Senator Mundt. Senator Dworshak? 

Senator McCarthy. Mr. Chairman, before Senator Dworshak com- 
mences, I would like to make a request of the members of this com- 
mittee, not as members of this subcommittee but as members of the 
full committee. I have just been talking to Senator Knowland and 
he tells me that he would like for use to get all of the administration 
bills out of our committee so they can go on the floor and be disposed 
of before the final rush of work. It will be impossible, I am afraid, 
to do that if we wait until these hearings are over. 

Therefore, I am calling a meeting of the full committee at 5 : 30 
this afternoon to discuss especially the administration bills, plus the 
three citations of people with Communist backgrounds to be voted 
in contempt by the subcommittee. 

I know that is an imposition upon the members of this subcom- 
mittee, as they work all daj. But I think at the rate we are going, 
unless we hold evening meetings of the full committee, we never can 
get the important legislation on the floor. I do hope the members of 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1497 

this committee can be present at 5 : 30 to attend the meeting of the full 
committee. I hope it won't last any more than 2 hours at the most. 

Senator Mundt. Senator Dworshak? 

Senator Dworshak. Mr. Chairman, I somewhat regret that Sena- 
tor McCarthy took the floor away from me, because I was ready to 
make an appeal to you as chairman to confer with the counsel of all 
interested parties to see if it is not possible to expedite these hearings. 
As I say, this is the 21st day. We are dragging along without making 
much progress. There are 5 senators tied up at this hearing, 4 mem- 
bers of the committee, and Senator McCarthy, who should be working 
many hours every day and attending meetings of the Appropriations 
Committee and the subcommittee. 

Some of our subcommittees are marking up, drafting vital and 
very important legislation. This morning the full Committee on 
Appropriations is considering a very important bill. Here we are 
diverted from our regular duties. Soon we will be holding hearings 
of the full committee on foreign spending, and to consider the mili- 
tary budget for the coming fiscal year. It seems to me that the Ameri- 
can people have reached the point where they realize we cannot 
justify devoting days and weeks and weeks to such a hearing as this 
which certainly does not match in importance the vital work of our 
Appropriations Committee and the other work of the Senate. 

Likewise, I think we ought to try to release the officials of the 
Department of the Army so they can get back to work. We have 
important business to transact today. I think it behooves the mem- 
bers of this subcommittee and the chairman and the counsel to make 
a sincere and diligent effort to set a target date for terminating these 
hearings. 

Senator Mundt. The Chair believes we have been doing much better 
expediting the hearings without talking about expediting them. 

Senator Dworshak. Mr. Chairman, I have taken very little time 
and I resent any charge about taking time to talk about expediting 
these hearings. Day after day I have refrained from taking up the 
time of witnesses because it seems to me we are dealing with a lot of 
inconsequential things in calling in witnesses whose testimony doesn't 
seem to have much bearing on the determination of the dispute which 
this committee is charged to adjudicate. 

Senator Mundt. The Chair assures his friend from Idaho he is 
making no charges of any kind, he is simply reporting. We spent 1 
whole day talking about expediting the hearings and got no place. 

Senator Dworshak. I didn't take the whole day. 

Senator Mundt. Very well. I am simply pointing it out. We are 
making headway. Mr. Welch has asked that this young man be 
called. He has other witnesses and as soon as the Army's case has 
been presented, we will go to the other side, which I hope will be 
some time todav. 

Senator Dworshak. Are we going to take 21 days on the other side 
to present this case, Mr. Chairman ? 

Senator Mundt. I am not a prophet, I cannot tell. 

Senator McCarthy. Mr. Chairman, may I just say that I agree 
with Senator Dworshak wholeheartedly. I think he has taken less 
time, has done as much as any man here to try to get this show off the 
road, and I want to compliment him for that. 



1498 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

Senator Mundt. Any questions, Senator Dworshak, or further 
comments ? 

Senator Dworshak. No. 

Senator Mundt. Very well. 

Senator Symington ? 

Senator Symington. Mr. Chairman, with respect to the delays, I 
would like respectfully to point out to my friend, the distinguished 
Senator from Idaho, that he voted to delay the hearings for a week, 
and all the Democrats voted to keep the hearings going. 

Senator Dworshak. Mr. Chairman. 

Will the Senator vield ? 

Senator Symington. I will always be glad to yield. 

Senator Dworshak. During that week the members of the subcom- 
mittee devoted their efforts to the transaction of very important 
business. 

Senator Symington. May I ask the Senator if his impression is that 
we should recess the hearings until the appropriations bills are over 
and then start? 

Senator Dworshak. I would suggest that we postpone the hearings 
until after the Congress adjourns, and then the subcommittee can 
remain here and continue the hearings. 

Senator Mundt. The Chair again believes if his colleagues will ask 
questions of the witnesses instead of commenting about expediting 
the hearings, we will expedite them more quickly. 

Senator Symington. I appreciate the fact that the chairman would 
like to get the hearings going. I have 10 minutes. I respectfully 
would like to say the Chair also voted to postpone the hearings over 
10,000 minutes a few days ago. Therefore, I would like to ask my 
colleague from Idaho if he thinks it is fair to spend 21 days hearing 
one side of the case and then recess or rush through the other side? 

Senator Dworshak. Certainly I do not. That is why I am trying 
to get 



Senator Mundt. This is no place for a political debate. Let's ask 
questions of the witnesses and have our political debate on the floor 
of the Senate or on the radio when we pay for our own time. 

Senator Symington, please direct your questions to the witness. 

Senator Symington. I would respectfully ask the Chair how much 
more of my 10 minutes he would like to have, because I would be glad 
to yield them to him. 

Senator Mundt. Take it all if it is available. We will go to the 
next witness. 

Senator Symington. I am glad we have the chairman back in the 
merry mood that we all like. 

I would like to ask the witness, did you say that Private Schine was 
a. w. o. 1., on New Year's Eve, Captain Miller ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Senator Symington. To whom did you report it ? 

Captain Miller. To the adjutant, who reported it to the regimental 
commander. 

Senator Symington. To whom? 

Captain Miller. To the regimental commander, sir. 

Senator Symington. I am sorry. Senator McClellan was coughing. 
I didn't hear your answer. 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1499 

Captain Miller. I telephoned the adjutant of the regiment, who 
reported it to the regimental commander, sir. 

Senator Symington. Who is he? 

Captain Miller. Col. Earl L. Riugler, sir. 

Senator Symington. What did he do about it ? 

Captain Miller. He caused a report to be made to General Ryan, 
sir. 

Senator Symington. What did General Ryan do about it? 

Captain Miller. General Ryan stated that Private Schine was 
to be left home, and that there was a possibility of a misunderstanding 
which might be adjudicated on Monday morning; that if a member 
of the committee called for Private Schine for committee business, 
he would be placed on pass and made available for that work. 

Senator Symington. You say no member of this committee staff got 
in touch with you. Did you know that they had gotten in touch with 
your higher authority at Camp Dix at any time ? 

Captain Miller. I found this out subsequently, sir. 

Senator Symington. Subsequently to what? 

Captain Miller. To the weekend, sir. 

Senator Symington. While Private Schine was on the base or 
afterward ? 

Captain Miller. Afterwards, sir. 

Senator Symington. I would like to ask this question : What effect 
did these passes have, excess passes as against average, on the morale 
of the platoon or the company that you were in charge of? 

Captain Miller. As I stated, the statistical indications were that 
there were no material effects on the morale. There was some re- 
sentment by the trainees, because I was a private myself for a couple 
of years, and anything anyone else gets that I don't get as a private, 
I resent. There was this resentment, and it got to me through rumor 
and through report. 

Senator Symington. Were most of the people in your company 
inductees ? 

Captain Miller. The trainees are all inductees. They are all new 
civilian soldiers. 

Senator Symington. What is the average age? 

Captain Miller. The average is about 19 now, sir. 

Senator Symington. Inasmuch as Private Schine was considerably 
older than the others, wouldn't that normally put him in a position 
of leadership with respect to the company ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir; I would expect him to use great care 
and judgment in the handling of his personal relationships with the 
other trainees. 

Senator Symington. Wouldn't that maybe justify some of the 
things which he did which you felt were out of order or improper 
which you have mentioned? 

Captain Miller. In what way, sir? 

Senator Symington. Didn't the younger men look up to him for 
leadership ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir; I don't believe that that was the case. 
Private Schine was not a squad leader. 

Senator Symington. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Mundt. Senator Dirksen, you were not here when your 
turn came. Do you have any questions ? 



1500 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

Senator Dirksen. I have only one question. 

Captain, how do you measure the morale statistically ? 

Captain Miller. I take some indication from the a. w. o. 1. rate, 
which among new civilian soldiers is inclined to be higher than is 
normally considered to be average for finished soldiers, Regular Army 
soldiers, and soldiers on duty elsewhere than in a training center. 
The training in basic training is quite arduous and the soldier is most 
likely to break down during those first few weeks. I had only one 
a. w. o. 1. during that cycle, and that a. w. o. 1. with a young man who 
had been a juvenile delinquent and had spent some time in a reform 
school. It was knoAvn in the platoon that he w T as a man who was 
likely to go a. w. o. 1., so I didn't consider that indicative of negative 
morale. 

Senator Dirksen. So statistically you could discern no impact on 
the morale of your company ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. In addition, especially the reports which 
come from the chaplain are indicative of the morale. The men are 
confidential with their chaplains, and the chaplains in turn inform 
us of indications of poor morale in our company so we can take cor- 
rective action. 

Senator Dirksen. That is all. 

Senator Mundt. Mr. Welch. No, I guess it is Mr. Meissner. 

Lieutenant Meissner. That is right, sir. 

Senator Mundt. Under rules of procedure, Mr. Meissner you have 
10 minutes in wdiich you can interrogate your witness if you care 
to. 

Lieutenant Meissner. I have just one question, sir. 

Senator Mundt. You may ask it. 

Lieutenant Meissner. Just to clarify one point: On the 31st of 
December, Captain Miller, after you discovered Private Schine's ab- 
sence, did you take any other action besides reporting it to higher 
authority ? 

Captain Miller. I caused a telegram to be sent which is the nor- 
mal telegram sent to anyone who has gone a. w. o. 1. It must be sent 
within 24 hours. I caused it to be dispatched to Private Schine di- 
recting him to return to his duty station. 

Lieutenant Meissner. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Mundt. Mr. Cohn or Senator McCarthy. 

Mr. Coiin. Captain, did you ever meet Senator McCarthy, Mr. 
Carr, or myself? 

Captain Miller. I believe I previously testified that I had not, sir. 

Mr. Cohn. You have never met any of us ; is that right, sir ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir ; I have not. 

Mr. Cohn. Has any one of us ever asked you for preferential treat- 
ment of any kind for Private Schine? 

Captain Miller. No, sir ; you have not. 

Mr. Cohn. I see. I have no further questions. 

Senator McCarthy. I have. 

Senator Mundt. Senator McCarthy. 

Senator McCarthy. I have one or two. May I say, Captain, as I 
sat here for the last hour and a half, first I might say I was thoroughly 
irritated to see a captain, a company commander, sitting there smear- 
ing a private, but then I began to think it over and realized that you 
must know wdiat happens to even a general who comes in and gives us 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1501 

all the facts and cooperates like Lawton, a threat to make him, an order 
now that he can't testify. I would like to ask yon a few questions. 

You said that Mr. Schine was a, w. o. 1. On page 3423 of General 
Ryan's testimony 

Senator Mundt. Time out while they are getting the record. 

Captain Miller. What is the reference, sir? 

Senator McCarthy. Ryan is testifying as to a conversation with 
yon ; is that correct ? Look toward the bottom of the page. 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. I have located the question. 

Senator McCarthy. Quoting Ryan, he said, "I asked," meaning 
he asked you; is that correct? 

He is referring to what he asked you ; is that correct? 

Captain Miller. I believe your question — I don't see the reference 
in the testimony. 

Senator McCarthy. Let me quote the whole passage. He says, 
"I asked whether or not Private Schine had a pass, a written pass, 
and he said, 'Yes, Private Schine had a pass.' " 

I have been in the military awhile myself, and I thought when a 
private got a pass, in conformity with that pass he could not be 
a. w. o, 1. Let me ask you the question, Did Schine have a pass? 

Lieutenant Meissner. Senator, I believe that 

Senator McCarthy. I am asking the question of the witness. 

Senator Mundt. The captain is asked the question. You may ad- 
vise the captain if you care to. 

Lieutenant Meissner. Mr. Chairman, I believe that question was 
asked of Lieutenant Blount and not Captain Miller. The captain can 
explain that, but I just want to point that out. 

Senator Mundt. Captain, you may answer whether the question 
was asked you or whether it was asked Lieutenant Blount. 

Captain Miller. I can handle the question, all right. 

Senator McCarthy. May I get this straight. This was General 
Ryan testifying. If the young man — what is your name, again ? 

Lieutenant Meissner. Lieutenant Meissner, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Lieutenant, if you will refer to page 3423, you 
will find it was not Lieutenant Blount testifying, but General Ryan. 

Lieutenant Meissner. I didn't say that Lieutenant Blount was 
testifying. I merely stated that General Ryan was discussing a con- 
versation he had with Lieutenant Blount and not with Lieutenant 
Miller. 

Senator McCarthy. I beg your pardon. I think you are right. 
Let's revise that, Captain. Ryan was apparently talking about a con- 
versation he had with Blount. Who is Blount ? 

Captain Miller. He is General Ryan's aide, sir. He testified yes- 
terday. 

Senator McCarthy. And this was following a conversation which 
Blount had with you, is that correct ? 

Captain Miller. That is correct, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. So that Ryan was asking Blount about a con- 
versation which he had with you, and when we find this testimony, 
"Yes, Schine had a pass," is that correct, just yes or no? 

Captain Miller. I will answer the question yes, and then I will 
qualify it, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Don't make the speech too long, will you ? 



1502 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

Senator Mundt. You may qualify it. 

Captain Miller. The question was quite long, sir. I will qualify 
the answer if I may. Private Schine did have a pass form in his 
possession, a pass form, that was granted to him on the first day he was 
in the company. I stated to Private Schine at that time that the pass 
form was for the purpose of proving to people off post that he was 
legally on pass and it was not in itself authority to be absent. I stated 
to Private Schine that this authority would come from higher head- 
quarters, and this authority had not come. The pass was not anything 
other than a piece of paper in his possession. 

Senator McCarthy. Incidentally, if I heard your testimony cor- 
rectly as I was reading some material here, you said that you became 
angry when you were talking to Private Schine and he asked you to 
lower your voice. Can we now agree that Mr. Colin does not have a 
monopoly upon getting angry, that even some people in the Army get 
angry also ? 

Captain Miller. That is correct entirely, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Just one other question, Lieutenant, or Cap- 
tain. General Ryan, I believe, testified that there was an Inspector 
General's investigation of Private Schine's activities as a result of 
charges made by the New York Post. I assume you are aware of that 
IG investigation? 

Captain Miller. I am, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Now, the New York Post had men down at 
Fort Dix interviewing military personnel, is that right ? 

Captain Miller. I can't testify to that, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Did any of them interview you ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir. I refused all interviews because the mat- 
ter was under investigation by the Inspector General and I didn't 
feel that it was my place to testify on it. 

Senator McCarthy. Let's get the sequence straight. You said you 
refused all interviews because the matter was under investigation? 

Captain Miller. I did. 

Senator McCarthy. And General Ryan said the Inspector Gener- 
al's investigation was the result of charges made by the New York Post. 
Their stories showed they had men down at Fort Dix interviewing — 
Lieutenant, wait until I get through asking the question — interview- 
ing people on your post. The question is, Did anyone from the New 
York Post talk to you ? 

Captain Miller. No one from the New York Post talked to me. 

Senator McCarthy. Did they talk to people in your command? 

Captain Miller. Yes ; they did. Unfortunately, I was on leave. 

Senator McCarthy. Who authorized that particular activity on the 
part of the New York Post ? 

Captain Miller. I cannot say, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Are you aware of the fact that the man who is 
now the editor of the New York Post has admitted under oath that he 
was a top official in the Communist Party ? Are you aware of that ? 

Captain Miller. I know of no such incident, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Do you know that Mr. Wechsler, James 
Wechsler who is now the editor of the New York Post, the paper that 
sent investigators down to your company apparently had a free run, 
that he has admitted under oath, No. 1, that he was on the national 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1503 

committee of Young Communist League, that he organized tours to 
Moscow? Do you know that that is the man whose reporters came 
clown to Fort Dix and their activities resulted in the Inspector General 
spending a vast amount of time investigating Private Schine ? 

Lieutenant Meissner. Mr. Chairman, the witness has stated that he 
was not present at Fort Dix when the New York Post people came 
down there. So I don't see how it would be material whether he knew 
of the background of anybody of the New York Post. 

Senator Mundt. I think that is correct. He said he was on leave. 
I understand you were not at Fort Dix at the time. 

Captain Miller. Further, all the material presented by McCarthy 
is not an item of which I would have personal knowledge. 

Senator McCarthy. When was your leave, Captain ? 

Captain Miller. My leave commenced about the 18th of January 
and continued through the week, I believe, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. For 1 week ? 

Captain Miller. It is a conjecture at this time. I don't know the 
exact date, sir. It is about that week. 

Senator McCarthy. From the 18th to the 25th? 

Captain Miller. About that, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. I have apparently the first article, I am not 
sure if it is the first or not, from the New York Daily — from the New 
York Post, dated January 29. So this was 4 days after you returned, 
Captain. I am just curious to know how, No. 1, a paper, whose editor 
has been one of the top officials of the Communist Party, who has been 
attacking the FBI consistently 

Senator Symington. Mr. Chairman? 

Senator McCarthy. Let me finish my question. 

Senator Mundt. Senator Symington has a point of order. 

Senator Symington. Based on the testimony that was given this 
committee there is no justification, in my opinion, for stating that Mr. 
Wechsler was a top official in the Communist Party. 

Senator McCarthy. Mr. Chairman, could I have the understand- 
ing that at least the Senators will not interrupt me half-way through 
a question? If Mr. Symington wants to act as defense counsel for 
Mr. Wechsler he can do that when my question is finished. 

Mr. Wechsler appeared before our committee, he admitted under 
cross-examination, Mr. Symington knows it, that he was on the 
national committee of the Young Communist League, that he organ- 
ized tours which went to Moscoav. He admitted that while he claims 
to have reformed, that he never went to the FBI to give them any 
information, except to complain, sometime in 1948, about an investi- 
gation that was being conducted of his wife, who also is admittedly 
a member of the party or the Young Communist League, which is a 
part of the party. So let's get the facts straight. It is all under oath, 
all a matter of record. I would like if the Senator from Missouri 
will allow me to finish my question before he raises a point of order. 

Will the reporter read my question where I was when I was 
interrupted ? 

(The reporter read from his notes as requested.) 

Senator McCarthy. In view of the interruption, I will start the 
question over. As I started to say, I have here, Captain, the copy 
of the New York Post, entitled "The Case of Private Schine," head- 
lined across the top of it, dated January 29. That was after your 



1501 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

leave was over, I understand, and when you were at Fort Dix in 
charge of the company. Is that correct ? 

Captain Miller. That is correct, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Now, Captain, you may not be able to give me 
this information, but I am very curious to get your comments on this, 
if you have any. We have General Ryan testifying the other day that 
the Inspector General's investigation was a result of articles in this 
particular sheet. We have the testimony of the editor under oath 
that he was one of the top officials of the Communist Party, namely 
that he was on the national committee of the Young Communist 
League. We have his testimony to the effect that he organized tours to 
go to Moscow for young people. His paper has consistently attacked 
the head of the FBI, everyone who has ever dared to expose Commu- 
nists. I am curious to know how this paper, above all others, appar- 
ently, has a free run of your post, and how it is so powerful that they 
could get an Inspector General's investigation which cost, I am sure, a 
considerable amount of money. Would you be able to comment on 
that? 

Senator Mundt. The Senator's time has expired, but the captain 
may answer the question. 

Captain Miller. I would like to answer the question, sir, if I may. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Captain Miller. I have no personal knowledge of the articles in 
the New York Post. They were reported to me. I never read them to 
any extent. I know of the allegations which were presented. Some 
.of them were critical of me. The New York Post reporters did not 
come to my company by my direction, if any came there at all. It is 
a custom with newsmen on reporting to a post to go to the public 
information officer, where they are granted or denied permission to 
interview people on the post. I understand that on one occasion, the 
occasion on which I was absent, permission was granted for newsmen 
to visit the company and interview members of the company. If I 
were present I would not have given them any information. How- 
ever, they did interview some members of my company. 

I do not know what newspaper they represented, and I know nothing 
of the activities of Mr. Wechsler. 

Senator Mundt. Counsel, have you any further questions? 

Mr. Maner. I believe your counsel stated, Captain Miller, that the 
principal item on which Private Schine's character rating was based 
was the New Year's incident; is that correct? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Maner. And do you endorse that ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir ; I do. 

Mr. Maner. Was any disciplinary action taken against Private 
Schine by reason of that incident? 

Captain Miller. At the time of the incident, Monday morning 
Private Schine was to be investigated by Captain Patterson of the 
regiment. The order stated to investigate the circumstances sur- 
rounding the absence- 



Mr. Maner. Please, sir, answer my question: Was any disciplinary 
action taken against Private Schine by reason of that incident? 

Captain Miller. No, sir. 

Mr. Maner. Does his service record show that he was absent with- 
out leave on that occasion ? 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1505 

Captain Miller. No, sir; it does not. 

Mr. Maner. No further questions. 

Senator Mundt. The Chair has none. 

Senator McClellan ? 

Senator McClellan. No questions. 

Senator Mundt. Senator Dirksen or any of the Senators to my 
right ? 

The Senators to my left ? 

Senator Symington. I have a question. 

Senator Mundt. Senator Symington 8 

Senator Symington. First, I would like to make a statement. It is 
my understanding that Mr. Wechsler testified before this committee 
that when he was around 17 or 18 or 19, he was a member of the Young 
Communist League ; that he left that organization when he was young ; 
and that since that time he has been more and more actively against 
communism. It is my understanding — and I have only seen Mr. 
Wechsler twice in my life, and I don't read his paper — both times that 
I saw him was in connection with executive hearings held by this 
committee. I have never seen the article referred to with respect to 
the activities of Private Schine. 

Captain, questions have been asked you — I would like to ask you a 
question  

Senator Mundt. Will the Senator yield a minute to the Chair? 

When the point of order was raised, the Chair did not rule upon 
it for this reason : He was not present at any of the hearings at which 
Mr. Wechsler testified. He has never read the testimony. He is en- 
tirely unable to rule on the point of order concerning testimony about 
Mr. Wechsler which he has neither heard nor seen nor read. 

Senator Symington. The record will speak for itself. 

I would like to ask this question, because I hate to see anybody's 
life destroyed in the American system. If I am wrong, I will apolo- 
gize to the junior Senator from Wisconsin, but that is the way I 
remember the record. 

The question that I would like to ask you is : Did you know that 
former Communists in the last 18 months have also been paid members 
of the staff of this committee ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir ; I did not. 

Senator Symington. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Mundt. Mr. Welch ? 

I beg your pardon. It is Lieutenant Meissner. Do you have any 
questions ? 

Lieutenant Meissner. I have just two short questions, sir. 

Senator Mundt. Raise your voice a little and go ahead and ask 
them. 

Lieutenant Meissner. Captain Miller, will you please relate why 
Private Schine was given this piece of paper which constituted a 
pass ? 

Captain Miller. I gave Private Schine the pass form on the first 
day he arrived in the company because I knew that Private Schine 
was to receive passes at various times during the first 4 weeks, and I 
felt that to make Private Schine available for committee work as soon 
as possible, I should place no administrative restriction in the way of 
making him available. 



1508 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

I usually keep the passes locked up in a safe, and they are avail- 
able only to myself and the executive officer. I gave Private Schine 
this pass so in the event a pass 

Senator Mundt. Just one minute. 

To the photographers, it has been so long since you violated the 
rules and so long since I have reprimanded you, I hope you will keep 
on sitting down. 

Go ahead. The photographers are interfering with the opportun- 
ity of the people at the table to hear and see the witness. 

Captain Miller. I felt that since I kept the passes locked up in 
the safe and since Private Schine would be called at various times 
for these passes, if I or my executive officer were not present it would 
not be possible to get Private Schine's pass to him within any reason- 
able time. 

I therefore gave it to him to keep in his possession for that reason, 
which 1 stated to him. 

The fact that Private Schine was on pass on all or part of 30 of the 
59 days he was with my company bears out my reason for giviug him 
the passes in his possession. 

Lieutenant Meissner. Did that pass, that written piece of paper, 
constitute authority for him to be absent at any time from his duties? 

Captain Miller. It did not, unless authority was communicated to 
me through channels and I specifically authorized Private Schine to 
be absent. Then he would use this pass. If he were accosted by a 
military policeman or others and asked whether he were legally off 
the post, he would show this, but it would be indicative of the trust 
which I placed in Private Schine to show this pass at only such times 
as he was authorized to be absent. 

Lieutenant Meissner. My last question is this : Is it unusual for an 
IG investigation to be commenced when any charges are made by 
anyone against anyone in the military service ? 

Captain Miller. That is not at all unusual. 

Lieutenant Meissner. That is all I have, sir. 

Senator Mundt. Mr. Cohn or Senator McCarthy, do you have any 
further questions ? 

Senator McCarthy. Yes. First, Mr. Chairman, I would like to 
comment about the statement just made by the Senator from Mis- 
souri, Senator Symington. 

I would like to have your attention, if I may, Senator Symington. 

Senator Symington. You always have my attention, Senator. 

Senator McCarthy. The Senator has just commented upon the fact 
that former Communists have worked with this committee. He has 
tried apparently to put them in the same class with Mr. Wechsler. We 
have a former Communist sitting behind me, Miss Bentley. She has 
worked with this committee. She has worked with grand juries. 
She has worked with the FBI while Mr. Wechsler was attacking the 
FBI. She and every former Communist who has honestly reformed 
and who has by their own testimony sent traitors to jail are con- 
sistently smeared by the Wechslers who claim to have reformed. I in- 
tend always to utilize the services, and generally on a completely 
free basis, of those individuals who have learned that they made a 
mistake and have proven it by helping our law-enforcement agencies 
and grand juries to send Communists to jail. 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1507 

I may say to the Senator from Missouri I am deeply disturbed 
-when I find, after he came back to this committee apparently for the 
purpose of helping us dig out Communists, that the only time I hear 
him raise his voice at this table is when we appear to be hurting 
those who defended communism. Let me make it clear—- — 

Senator Symington. Mr. Chairman, I ask 

Senator McCarthy. Let me finish. 

Senator Symington. I ask the chairman of this committee to con- 
sider these remarks from the Senator from Wisconsin as improper 
and that you tell him, Mr. Chairman — you are supposed, as I uncler- 
stand 

Senator McCarthy. I intend to finish my statement regardless of 
what the Senator may say. 

Senator Symington. I ask you if you will tell the Senator from 
Wisconsin that his remarks with respect to me personally, and my 
efforts on the committee, have little to do with this hearing and are 
out of order in this hearing. 

Senator McCarthy. May I proceed, Mr. Chairman? 

Senator Mundt. Let the Chair comment on the point of order, first. 
The Chair stated earlier today that he considers a great deal of the 
colloquoy taking place between his colleagues at this table as bemg 
irrelevant and improper and certainly not conducive to expediting 
the hearing. He suggests that we do not engage in political discus- 
sion. He suggests we do not engage in attacks upon each other. 

In all fairness, it seems to me Senator McCarthy is entitled to say 
something in response to the charge that the Chair believes he heard 
the Senator from Missouri make that he was employing Communists 
on his committee. I think the whole discussion is out of order, but 
unhappily, though the Chair wishes he had the authority of a judge 
in this proceeding, he has only the authority of a chairman of a con- 
gressional committee in the United States Senate, where people are 
accustomed to engaging in freedom of debate. But he would like 
to plead that we get back on the beam, that we get back on the issues, 
that we interrogate this young man and get on to the next witness. 

He will respectfully ask of the Senator from Wisconsin if he has 
had an opportunity now to reply to what I thought was an attack 
made upon him and his committee by Senator Symington. 

Senator Symington. Mr. Chairman, I make a point of order on 
that. I did not make any attack on this committee. I stated a fact, 
and the fact that I stated was that a man told me, in front of Senator 
McCarthy, a member of this staff, that he was being paid by this 
committee and that he was formerly a member of the Communist 
Party. And that is all I said. I stated a fact. As to whether a 
Communist is reformed or whether he is not reformed, I believe from 
the bottom of my heart that God will decide with respect to his true 
reformation and no mortal man. 

Senator Mundt. The Chair is not in a position to adjudicate differ- 
ences existing between the members of this committee. The Chair 
knows nothing about the background of any member of this com- 
mittee who may or may not have been a Communist. He doesn't think 
this is the appropriate forum in which to explore that fact. Having 
had the issue raised by the Senator from Missouri, I think certainly 
that he will agree that the Senator from Wisconsin has some right to 
explain whether or not he considers that to be an accurate statement. 



1508 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

Senator Symington - . I ask the chairman of this committee to with- 
draw the statement that I attacked the committee. 

Senator Mundt. I will withdraw that. You attacked Senator 
McCarthy. 

Senator Symington. I ask the chairman to withdraw the statement 
that I attacked Senator McCarthy, because the record will prove that 
to be not correct. 

Senator Mundt. Very well. I will withdraw any statement that 
I made, but the Chair believes that your statement about Senator 
McCarthy employing former Communists 

Senator Symington. I stated it as a fact. I did not criticize the 
fact. I thank the Chair for his graciousness. 

Senator Mundt. Now, Senator, can we go on with your question- 
ing? If we can ever get an altercation like this in a state of equi- 
librium, the Chair hopes it has been equilibrized now, and maybe we 
can continue. 

Senator McCarthy. I would like to ask the Chair a question if 
I may. I note he has the gavel poised most of the time. Can we have 
an understanding for the rest of the time that Senators will not butt 
in and interrupt halfway through a question? Let's have an agree- 
ment that we can have the question finished. I think that is common 
courtesy. 

Senator Symington. Mr. Chairman, I agree with the Senator from 
Wisconsin. I think I was perhaps a little impetuous, and I assure 
him I will do my best in the future to follow his suggestion. 

Senator Mundt. The Chair hopes that all of us can conform to 
that admonition, including the man who made it, so we can make it 
unanimous. Senator McCarthy ? 

Senator McCarthy. Captain, you have counsel to your right; is 
that right ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. And another counsel behind you, Mr. St. Clair ? 

Captain Miller. I have counsel for the Army, and I am a part of the 
Army, and they represent me as well as Lieutenant Meissner. 

Senator McCarthy. You consider that a perfectly proper situa- 
tion. Any man testifying should have counsel, shouldn't he ? 

Captain Miller. Naturally, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Nov/, can you tell me whether or not, when Mr. 
Schine, a private in the Army, was called in as a result of those charges 
originated by a paper whose editor at least had been a top member of 
the party, whether or not Mr. Schine was allowed counsel or not? 

Captain Miller. I know, because I was told, and I can state the 
facts in that, if you wish, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Was he or was he not allowed counsel, yes or 
no? 

Captain Miller. I will say "No he was not," and then I will qualify 
it, if I may, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. You may qualify it. 

Captain Miller. In an Inspector General's investigation, persons 
being asked questions are being asked questions merely for the sake 
of ascertaining facts, and counsel has never been allowed for persons in 
Inspector General investigations. I happen to have been included 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1509 

among the persons questioned since the charges were made and since 
Colonel Fogarty commenced the investigation sometime in January, 
and have constantly testified without counsel. And I didn't consider 
this in any way irregular. 

I merely was giving Colonel Fogarty facts with which to make 
recommendations to the commanding general, and the fact that a 
counsel was denied in that instance by regulation was satisfactory 
to me. 

Senator McCarthy. Try and stick to the answer ? 

Captain Miller. I am sticking to the answer. 

Senator McCarthy. I will ask you a simple question. Was Schine 
denied counsel when he was interrogated in regard to these charges ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Charges originated by a Communist sheet ? 

Captain Miller. I can't 

Senator McCarthy. Was he denied counsel? 

Captain Miller. That is the only question, was he denied counsel ? 

Senator McCarthy. Yes. 

Captain Miller. Yes, he was. 

Senator McCarthy. Did he tell you he wanted counsel present? 

Captain Miller. I was not present. Private Schine was at Camp 
Gordon when he was interrogated, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Do you know that he requested the right to 
have his own lawyer present ? 

Captain Miller. I know that through hearsay, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Do you know he was denied that right? 

Captain Miller. I believe 

Senator McCarthy. Yes, or no. 

Captain Miller. I will state, sir, the choice of the word "believe" 
was improper. I will state that to my knowledge, Private Schine had 
requested counsel and was not interrogated by Colonel Fogarty at that 
time because he had been out training all night the night before 

Senator McCarthy. Don't give me a speech, Captain. I just asked 
you a simple question. Did Schine ask to have a lawyer of his own 
choosing, whom he would hire personally, and pay, have him present 
at the time there was being investigated the charges initiated by a 
Communist sheet? Was he denied counsel or not? I don't need a 
speech on that. 

Captain Miller. I would have to qualify that, sir, because I know 
that Private Schine was given the opportunity to consult with counsel 
and he had the allegations before him, before he was questioned by 
the IG, which was not true of myself. 

Senator McCarthy. The question is. Captain — there is no reason 
why you can't just tell us the truth in this instance 

Captain Miller. Sir, I am going to tell the truth. 

Senator McCarthy. Was he denied the right of having counsel 
present : "Yes" or "no" ? 

Captain Miller. He was. 

Senator McCarthy. Do you know that he was also instructed not 
to tell anyone, including the chairman of this committee, what the 
charges against him were ? Do you know that ? 

Captain Miller. I believe that all persons giving testimony are 
instructed not to tell — not to give any of their testimony to other per- 
sons until the completion of the investigation and findings are in. 
That would be true, sir. 



1510 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

Senator McCarthy. Would you answer the question : Do you know 
that 

Senator Mundt. At the end he said that would be true, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. Do you know that Schine was instructed not 
to tell anyone, including the chairman of this committee ? myself, what 
the charges against him were, that he was specifically instructed not 
to tell anyone on my staff or tell me what the charges against him 
were ? Do you know that ? 

Captain Miller. Yes, sir; Private Schine, as well as I, and the 
rest 

Senator McCarthy. All right. 

Captain Miller. If I may, I will qualify 

Lieutenant Meissner. Mr. Chairman ? 

Senator Mundt. He has a right to qualify his answer, having started 
by saying "Yes." You may finish your statement. 

Lieutenant Meissner. Mr. Chairman, the witness testified that he 
was not present at the time when Private Schine was interrogated by 
the IG, and all of these questions, of course, are hearsay, and things 
that the captain picked up from other people. I just want to point 
that out. 

Senator Mundt. The captain has a right to make that clear. 

Captain Miller. I believe I made that clear to Senator McCarthy 
when I commenced answering the questions. The answers were ac- 
cepted on that basis. 

Senator McCarthy. Let me ask you this. Maybe you can shed 
some light on this, Captain. In view of the fact that Private Schine 
was instructed by the inspector general, and I am not questioning the 
wisdom of that order, maybe it is wise and maybe it is unwise, we 
won't determine that today, but in view of the tact that he was in- 
structed not to tell anyone what the charges were, he was told he 
couldn't have a lawyer present, told he couldn't tell the chairman of 
this committee what the charges against him were, could you perhaps 
tell me how we had to go to this New York Post, run by a man who 
admittedly was a high Communist at one time, to find out what the 
charges were ? In other words, how did they get them ? 

Captain Miller. The charges, I believe, were first printed in the 
New York Post. 

Senator McCarthy. That is right. 

Captain Miller. And the charges were available on a public basis. 
I believe that Private Schine was provided, as well as I, with a copy 
of the allegations of the New York Post. 

Senator Mundt. The Senator's time has expired. 

Counsel ? 

The Chair has none. Do any of the Senators to my left have any ? 
To my right ? 

Lieutenant, do you have any further questions? 

Lieutenant Meissner. Yes, sir. 

Captain Miller, did you have counsel at the IG investigation ? 

Captain Miller. I did not. 

Lieutenant Meissner. Were you offered the right to have counsel 
at the IG investigation? 

Captain Miller. I was not. I inquired on the basis I was not 
familiar with the regulations. It was shown to me that counsel was 
neither allowed nor required for such an investigation. 



SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 1511 

Lieutenant Meissner. Are the witnesses acquainted with their 
rights under the 31st article of the Uniform Code of Military Justice 
as well as the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution 
before they are asked any questions by the inspector general ? 

Captain Miller. Yes. In all cases of investigation within the 
Army, article 31, which is based upon the fifth amendment, is read 
to each person interrogated in any investigation. 

Lieutenant Meissner. Were you told by the IG not to discuss your 
testimony with anyone else ? 

Captain Miller. I was instructed not to disclose the subject of my 
testimony to anyone else, the content of the testimony, because it was 
confidential material. 

Lieutenant Meissner. Do you know whether or not the IG investi- 
gation was a result of the charges made by the newspapers, or vice 
versa ? 

Captain Miller. I have been told that that is the fact. 

Senator Mundt. Which is the fact, the newspapers or vice versa ? 

Captain Miller. That the investigation, sir, was started as a re- 
sult of the newspaper allegations. 

Senator Mundt. Thank you. 

Lieutenant Meissner. Then that is how the newspapers would 
know of the allegations, is that correct? 

Captain Miller. That is correct, sir. 

Lieutenant Meissner. That is all I have, sir. 

Senator Mundt. Mr. Cohn or Senator McCarthy ? 

Senator McCarthy. It seems that we have spent 2 hours now on 
something that is completely irrelevant to this case. Maybe we 
should spend a few more minutes and let the public know exactly 
what some of the charges were. 

One of the charges — first, may I ask you this : You said that Pri- 
vate Schine was furnished a copy of the charges? 

Captain Miller. I believe that is true, sir. 

Senator McCarthy. You were told you could not make those avail- 
able to anyone, that those were secret ? 

Captain Miller. I don't believe the charges were secret from any- 
one, sir. They were printed in the New York Post. 

Senator McCarthy. Before they were printed, I assume you gave 
him the charges. You didn't hand him a copy of the New York Post. 
I assume you handed him the charges in some typewritten form. 

Captain Miller. I handed Private Schine nothing. I was not a 
part of the investigation being conducted. The charges were printed, 
I believe, in the New York Post after — or before the investigation 
commenced. The investigation was a result of articles appearing 
in the New York Post which were adverse to the reputation of Fort 
Dix. 

Senator McCarthy. Could you give me some idea of how much 
time and money was spent on one of the allegations? I may say I 
have asked for the allegations and have been denied them. Much as 
I dislike it, I had to spend a nickel for this Communist sheet to get 
them. How much time and money was spent by the IG in determin- 
ing the question of whether or not, I quote, "Schine had his shoes com- 
mercially polished" 



1512 SPECIAL INVESTIGATION 

Captain Miller. I know nothing of the amount of money being 
spent in the IG investigation. That is not a subject on which I can 
comment. 

Senator McCarthy. Do you know how much time and money was 
spent on allegation No. 16, namely, that he had boots with buckles on 
the side ? I might point out that I understand that they did not have 
shoes that would fit Dave. He has about a size 13 foot, so he had to 
buy them downtown. How much time did it take to determine 
whether or not the buckles were on the side or not ? 

Captain Miller. Again I will say that I cannot say how much 
money was spent on such an investigation. I do know of the incident 
itself. 

Senator McCarthy. Let me ask you one other question, then: Do 
you know how much time and money was spent to determine whether 
or not Dave on the range one day complained that the weather was 
rather cold ? Do you know how much time and money was spent on 
that ? 

Captain Miller. No, sir ; I do not. 

Senator McCarthy. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Mundt. Mr. Colin, any questions % 

Any of the counsel any questions ? 

Are you satisfied, Lieutenant Meissner? 

You are dismissed, Captain Miller. 

It now being something after 12, we having a 1 : 30 meeting sched- 
uled in room 357, an executive meeting, we stand in recess until 2 
o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 12: 15 p. m. the committee was recessed, to recon- 
vene at 2 p. m. the same day.) 



INDEX 



Page 

Adams, John G 1476 

American Military Establishment 1482 

Appropriations Committee (Senate) 1497 

Army (United (States) 1476,1478, 

1479, 1482, 1483, 14S6, 1487, 1491, 1496, 1497, 1500, 1502, 1508, 1511 

Army officers 1491 

Army records 1491 

Army rifle M-l 1494 

Article 31 (Uniform Code of Military Justice) 1511 

Bentley, Miss 1506 

Blount, Lieutenant 1490, 1493, 1495, 1501 

Bradley, Colonel 1477, 1484, 1485 

Camp Dix 1483, 1486-14S9, 1491, 1502, 1503 

Camp Gordon 1487, 1509 

Carr, Francis P 1479-14S1, 1483, 1484, 1488, 1491, 1492 

"Case of Private Schine" (newspaper article) 1503 

Christmas pass 1489, 1490, 1492, 1494 

Cohn, Roy M 1481, 14S3, 1488, 1491, 1493, 1495, 1502, 1511, 1512 

Communists 1401, 1496, 1502, 1503, 1505, 1506, 1510 

Company K (272d Infantry) 1476,1477 

Congress of the United States 1498 

Constitution of the United States 1511 

Department of the Army 1476, 1478, 

1479, 1482, 1483, 1486, 1487, 1491, 1496, 1497, 1500, 1502, 1508, 1511 

Europe 1496 

Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) 1503, 1506 

Fogarty, Colonel 1509 

Fort Dix 1483, 14S6-1489, 1491, 1502, 1503 

Forty-seventh Infantry 1476 

Gabryelski, Lieutenant 1495 

JG investigation 1502, 1503, 1506, 1508-1512 

Inspector General 1502, 1503, 1506, 150&-1512 

K Company (272d Infantry) 1476, 1477 

K. P. (kitchen police) 1482, 1483, 14S6, 1490 

Knowland, Senator 1496 

Korean war 1496 

Lawton, General 1501 

M-l (Army rifle) 1494 

McCarthy, Senator Joe 1479-1481, 

1483, 14S4, 14S8, 1491, 1492, 1496, 1497, 1500-1503, 1506-1512 

McClellan, Senator 1489, 1498 

McGuire Air Force Base 1477, 14S5 

Meissner, Lt. George S 1476, 

1488, 1491, 1492, 1500, 1501, 1503, 1505, 1506, 1508, 1510, 1511 

Military Justice (Uniform Code) 1511 

Miller, Capt. Joseph J. M., testimony of 1476-1512 

Moscow 1503 

National committee (Young Communist League) 1503 

New Year's Eve 1489, 1490, 1498 

New Year's pass I486, 1489-1492 

New York City 1493 

New York Daily 1503 

New, York Post 1502, 1503, 1510, 1511 

Ninth Division 1496 

Ninth Infantry Regiment 1496 



II INDEX 

Page 

Pass list (New Year's) 1490 

Pennsylvania University 1496 

Photograph laboratory (Fort Dix) 1490 

Potter, Senator 1491, 1494 

Regular Army soldiers 1.100 

Ringler, Col. Earl L 1477, 1495, 1499 

Ryan, General 1490, 1493, 1501, 1502 

St. Clair, Mr 1508 

Schine, G. David 1476-1495, 1498-1506, 1508-1511 

Second World War „ 1496 

Secretary of the Army 1476 

Senate Appropriations Committee 1497 

Senate of the United States 1497, 149S, 1507 

Sixty-ninth Division 1496 

Stevens, Robert T 1476 

Symington, Senator . 1488 

Thanksgiving pass 1494 

Two Hundred and Seventy-second Infantry 1476 

Uniform Code of Military Justice 1511 

United States Army : 1476, 1478, 1479, 

1482, 1483, 14S6, 1487, 1491, 1496, 14£7, 1500, 1502, 1508, 1511 

United States Congress 1498 

United States Constitution 1511 

United States Senate 1497 

University of Pennsylvania 1496 

Wechsler, James 1502, 1503, 1505, 1506 

World War II 1496 

Young Communist League 1503, 1505 

o 



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