Speech in the House of Commons, at a Committee for the bill against episcopall-government, Mr. Hide sitting in the chaire, June 11, 1641

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Malcolm W. Wallace
Principal of University College,
1928-19U

^ S'. HENRY VANE

s p £HE c H

In the Houfe of Commons, at a

Committee for the Bill againft

Epifcopall-Govcrnment,

'. HIDE fitting in the

C H A I R E.

June ii. i 6 4. i.

LONDON,

Printed for Francis Cotftable^
i rf 4 I,

HENRY VANE

*' HIS

SPEECH-

At a Committee for the Bill

againft Epifcopall Government,

lunc ii. 1641.

Matter Hide,

He debate we are now upon fc,
whether the Government by
Arch-bifhops., Bifliops, Chancel
lors, &c. fhould be taken away out
of the Church and Kingc/ome of
E*&la*d:tot the right dating wherof9we muft re-
raembcrJthe vote which paft yefterday , not only
by this Committee., but the Heufe, which was to
this effeft:That this Government hath bin found

A ^ by

<*•>

by long experience, to be a great impediment
to the perfeft reformation and gowth of Reli
gion, and very prejudicial I to the civil! State.

So that then the Queftion will lie thus before
us, Whether a Government which long expe
rience hathfet fo ill a Charaftcr upon3imporcing
danger, not only to our Religion, but the civiH
State., (hould be any longer continued amongft
asj or be utterly aboliftied ? For my owne pare,
1 am of the opinion of thofe 5 who conceive
that the ftrengrh of reafon already fct downe3 m
thePreamble'Oihis B5113 by yefterdayes vote, is
a necefTiry decifion of this Qoeition : For one
of the rrainc ends for which Church-govern
ment is fet up, is to advance and further theper-
feft reformation and growth of Religion - which
wee have already voted, v his Government doth
contradift 5 fo that it is deftruftive to the very
end for which it fliould be , and is raoft neceffa*
ry and defircable ^ io ^hich re-fpeft certainly
we have caufe enough to lay it afide 3 not one-
lyas ufclefle, in that ir attaines not its end.,,
bur as dangerous^ in that it deftroyes and contrli}
difts it.

Tn the fecond pi ice, we have voted ic preju
dicial! to rhe civil! Srace3 as having fop6wierfiaill
and ill an i ifluence.upoa our Laws , the Prerbga-
tivc of the Kingj andliberdes of t he Subje<!l3 thac
ir is like a fpreading leprofie, whirh leaves no-
shing untaiatedj and uninfefted which it come?

May we not therefore well fay of this Go
vernment, as our Saviour in the fifth of Matherv
fptaksof fait (give mr leave upon thisoccafion
tomakeufcof Scripture, as well as ochers have
done in this debate) where it is faid that falc is
good- but if the fair hath loft itsjavourywhcretrith
will yon feafon it ? It is thence forth good for HO-
th'wg^ but to be caft out, andtrodtn underfoot of
win : fo Church-government, ia the general],
is good, and that which is neceflary, and which
we all defire ; but when any particular forme of
it hath once loft its favour, by being deftru&ive
to its owne ends, for whic h ir is fet up., (as by our
vote already parted we (ay this hath) then furely,
Sir, we have no more to doe but to Gift it oat,and
cndevour, the bcft we can, to provide ourfelves
a better.

But to this k hath beene faid, that the Go
vernment now in queftion, may be fo amended
and reformed, thar it needs not be pulled quite-
downe or abolifhed ; bccaufe it is conceived,
it hath no originall flnne, or evill in it : or
if it have 3 it is faid , regenera::ioo will take
that way,

Vucowhichlanfwer, I doe confent that we
fhould do with this Government, as we are done
by in regeneration, in which all old things arc to
pafle away5 and all things are ro become new,
and this we muft doe, if we defire a perfcS re-
formation^and growth of our Religion, or ^ood
lo our civil ftate. For the whole Fabrick c f this
A 3 buildiiig

(4)

building is fo rotten and corrupt, from the Yery
foundation of it to the top, that if we pull it not
down now^it will fall about the eares of all thofc
that endevour ir, wrhin a very few yearep.

The univerfall rOwtenncflc., or corruption of
this government^ will moft evidently appeare by
a difquifition into chefe enfuing particulars.

Firft3 Let us confider in what foile this root
growes : Is it not in the Popes Paradife ? doe not
one and the fame principles and grounds main*
taine the Papacie, or univerfall Eifhop5 as doe
our Diocefan or Metropolitan BUhops ? All
thofe authorities which have beene brought us
out of the Fathers and antiquity, will they not as
well., if not better, fupport the Popedome as
the order of our Bifliops ? So likewifeall thefe
arguments for its agreeablenefle to Monarchy,
and cure of Schifme 3 doe they not much more
ftrongly hold for the acknowledgement of the
Pope5then for our Bifhops?and yet have Monar
chies baene ever a whit the more abfolute for the
Popes univerfali Monarchy?or their Kingdomes
leffc fubjeft to fchitmes and feditions > whatfo-
ever other kiiigdomeshavebeene5 lamfureour
Hiftories can tell us^this Kingdome hath not s and
therefore we have caft him off long fince, as hee
isforrainc, though we have not beene without:
•ne in our owne bowels. For the difference be-
tweene a Metropolitan^ or Diocefan 3 or uni
verfall BijObop? is not of kinds, but of degrees 2
and a Metropolitan or Diocefaa Bilhop is as ill

able

0)

able to performe ihc duty of a Paftorto his Dio-
ceflc or Province > as the Vniverfall Bifbop is
able to deck to the whole world : For the one
cannot doc but by Deputies^ and no more can
the other 5 and therefore fince we all confeflfc
the grounds upon which the Papacy ftands are
rotten, how can we deny but thefe that maintain
our Bifliops arc fo too3 fince they are one and
the fame?

In the fecond place., Jetns confider by what
hand this root of Epifcopacy was planted., and
how it came into the Church.

It is no difficult matter tofinde this out $ for is
not the very fpirit of this order 9 a fpirit of
pride , exalting it felfe in the Temple of God,
over all that is called God ? Firft,cxalrfng it felfc
above its fellow Presbitcrs, under the forme of
a Bifliop -, then over its fellow Bifhops, under the
title of Archbifhops, and fo ftill mounting over
thofe of its own profefliorjtill it come to bePope3
and then it flicks not to tread upon the necks
of Princes., Kings, and Emperours3 and trample
*hcm under its feet, Alfo thus yon may trace it
from it firft rife 3 and difcernc by what (pint f his
order came into the Church3and by what doorc 5
«f en by the back-doore of pride and ambition,
not by Cfarift Jefus. It is not a plant whip h Gods
light kand hath planted) but ii full of rottenneflc
and corruption ; that myftery of Iniquity, which
bath wrought thus long, and fo fit to be plucked
up. and removed oat of the way*

Thirdly,

Thirdly, Let as coofider the very nature and
quality of this trce,or root in its feife? whether k
be good or corrupt in its owne nature j we all
know where it is laid, A good tree cannot bring
forth corrupt fruit^ nor a corrupt tree good fruit :
'DM men gat her grtyes ofthornes.prfigs#fthi$les§
By its fruic therefore we (hall be fure to know-
it ; and according as the fruits of the Govern
ment have beene amongft us3either in Churcb5or
Common-wealth^ fo let it ftand3 or fall with us.

In the Church.

I A S itfelfe came in by the back dooreinto
i**(che Church, and was brought in by the (pi
nt of Antichrift, fo it felfehachbeentfaeback-
doore and in-let of all fuperftition and corrupti
on into the worihip and doftrine of this Church,,
and the meanes of haftening us back again* to
Rome/For proofe of this, I appeale to all our
knowledges in late ycares paft, the memory
whereof is fofrefh, I need enter into no parti*
culars.

A fecond fruit of this Government in the
Church, hath bcene the difplacing of the moft
godly and Confcientious Minifters 5 the vexing5
puniftiing, and banifiung out of the Kingdomes
the moft religious of all forts and conditions,
that would not comply with their fuperftitioos
Inventions and ceremonies ; in one word, the
the edge and power of their Govern-

(7)

inent againft the very life and power of Godfi-
ncfTe -and the favour and prote&ion ofic unto
all prophanc, fcandalous, aad fuperfticious per*
fonstha: would uphold their party. Thoufands
of examples migfrcbe gjven of this, if ic were not
moft notorious.

Athirdfruic hath becnScifme aad Fraftions
within our felvee, and Alienation from all the re
formed Churches abroad.

A*d laftly^the prodigioHa monfter of the late
Canons, whereby they had defigned the whole
Nation toapcrpetHall flavery and bondage to
thcmfelves, and their fuperftirious Inventioqs.
Thefeare the fruits of the Governuct in the
Church. Now let us eanfidcr thefe in the Civil
State : As :

1 The countenancing all illegall Projefts and
proceedings, by teaching in their palpics the law-
fulnclTc of an arbitrary Power.

2 The overthrowing all procefTe at Common
Law, that reffefted never ib little upon theic
Courts.

3 The kindling a warre bet wcene thefe two
Nation** and bio wing up the flame., as much as
in them lay , by their Councels, Canons, and
Subfidics they granted to chat end.

4 The plots, praftifes^tnd Combinatioas do-
ring this Parliament, in all whkh they feemc to
have beene interefted more or leflc.

fhus have they not contented themfclves with
encroachments upon our Ipirituall pnvilcdges3

B bur

(8)

but hive envied us our Civil I freedomei defiring
to make us grind in their mill,as the fkiliftims did
Satxpfa) and to put out both our eyes. O let us
be avenged of thcfe PM/f?7«u for our two eyes !

If then the tree bee to be kttowne By its fruits,
I hope you fee by this time" plainly the nature
and quality of this tree. .

In the laft place, give mee leave for adofe
of all to prefent to your confide ration the mif-
cbeifee, which thecdnftntiarice of thislG6Vtfrn«»
ment doth threaten us with, if by the teifdomc
of this Committee they be not prevented:

i The danger our Religion muft ever be in,
folong as it fe in the hands bf fuch Governours,
as can ftand firmly in nothing more, than itstu-
ine 5 and whofe affinity with the Popifb Hierar
chic makes them more confident of the \Papifts 5
than the profefiTors of the reformed Religion ,
for their fafety andfubfiftence.

Secondly 3 the unhappy condition our civil!

State is in s whilft the Bilhops have vote in the

Lords houfe5 being there as fo many bbftrufii-

on?5 in our body Politike, to all good and whb!«

Tome Lawestpndipgtbfalvation.

Thirdly, the improbability of fetling any firme
or durable peace, fo long as the caufe of the war
^yet continues ^ and the bellowes that blow up
"this flame. " .lr

'Laftly'j arrd that which I will affurey outgoes

, neareftto'tnyheartj is the check which wefeem

to give to Divine Providence 5 if we doe not at

-

this time pull downe this Government. For hath
not this Parliament been called, continued, pre
ferred, and fecurcd , by the immediate 6nger
of God, as i& were for this work ? had we not
elfebeenfwallowed up in many inevitable dan-*
gers, by the pra&ifes and defignes of chefe mea
aad their party? Hath not God left them to them-
felves, as well in thefe things, as in &he evill ad-
miniftration of their Government, that he might
lay them open unto us, and lead us,as it were, by
the hand, from the finding them to be the caufes
of our evill, to difcerne that their rooting up
muft be our oaely cure ? Let us not then halt
any longer between two opinions, but with oae
heart and refolution give glory to God, in com
plying with his providence, and with the good
fafety and peace of this Church and Scate.>
which is by paffingthis Bill we
are now upon*

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