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Full text of "State Department information program information centers. Hearing before the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations of the Committee on Government Operations, United States Senate, 83d Congress, 1st session, pursuant to S. Res. 40, a resolution authorizing the Committee on Government Operations to employ temporary additional personnel and increasing the amount of expenditures .."

^.l 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

INFORMATION CENTERS 



HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

PEEMAiS^ENT SUBCOMMITTEE ON 
INVESTIGATIONS OF THE COMMITTEE ON 

u^c^ GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS 

' ^^ UNITED STATES SENATE 

EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 
PURSUANT TO 



S. Res, 



PART 6 



MAY 6 AND 14, 1953 



rrinted for the use of the Committee on Government Operations 




UNITED STATES 
GOVEKXMEXT PRINTING OFFICE 
33616 • WASHINGTON : 1953 



Boston Public Library 
Superintendent of Documents 

OCT 7 - 1^53 

COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS 
JOSEPH R. MCCARTHY, Wisconsin, Chairman 

KARL E. MUNDT, South Dakota JOHN L. McCLELLAN. Arkansas 

MARGARET CHASE SMITH, Maine CLYDE R. HOEY, North Carolina 

HENRY C. DWORSHAK, Idaho HUBERT H. HUMPHREY, Minnesota 

EVERETT Mckinley DIRKSEX, Illinois HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington 

JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland JOHN F. KENNEDY, Massachusetts 

CHARLES E. POTTER, Michigan STUART SYMINGTON, Missouri 

Walter L. Reynolds, Chief Clerk 



Permanent Subcommittke on Investigations 
JOSEPH R. MCCARTHY, Wisconsin, Chairman 
KARL E. MUNDT, South Dakota JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas 

EVERETT Mckinley DIRKSEN, Illinois HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington 
CHARLES E. POTTER, Michigan STUART SYMINGTON, Missouri 

Roy M. Cohn, Chief Counsel 
Francis D. Flanagan, General Counsel and Staff Director 

II 



CONTENTS 



Appendix 415 

Index 416 

Testimony of — 

Aptheker, Herbert, Brooklyn, N. Y 374 

Aronson, James 395 

Belf rage, Cedric Henning 407 

Brand, Millen, New York, N. Y 357 

Foner, Philip 8., Croton-on-Hudson, N. Y 386 

Gropper, William, Croton-on-Hudson, N. Y 388 

Matusow, Harvey, Washington, D. C 367,385 

SCHEDULE OF EXHIBITS 

Intro- Appears 
duced on page 
on page 

34. Photostat of magazine, Clarity No. 2 369 O 

35. Excerpts from books by Herbert Aptheker 385 415 

•May he found in the files of the subcommittee. 

m 



STATE DEPARTMENT liNFORMATIONJPEOGRAM- 
INFORMATION CENTERS 



I 



WEDNESDAY, MAY 6, 1953 

United States Senate, 
Senate Permanent Subcommittee on In\t:stigations 

of the commi'i'tee on government operations, 

W ashing ton^ D. G. 

The subcommittee met (pursuant to S. Res. 40, agreed to January 
30, 1953) at 10: 30 a. m., in room 318 of the Senate Office Building, 
Senator Joseph R. INIcCarthv (chairman) presiding. 

Present: Senator Joseph R. McCarthy, Republican, Wisconsin; 
Senator Charles E. Potter, Republican, Michigan; Senator Henry M. 
Jackson, Democrat, Washington; Senator Stuart Symington, Demo- 
crat, Missouri. 

Present also : Roy Mr. Cohn, chief counsel ; G. David Schine, chief 
consultant; Daniel G. Buckley, assistant counsel; Ruth Young Watt, 
chief clerk. 

The Chairman, The committee will come to order. 

May I say that we this morning will hear from a number of authors 
who were used by the information program and who have allegedly 
Communist connections. 

This perhaps will wind up this particular phase of the investiga- 
tion. AYe are not attempting to call all of those authors who are 
either Communists or allegedly Communists. It would be just an 
unlimited task, I think. But I think with what we produce this 
morning we will have a good cross section of the type of Communiste 
and alleged Communists who were used in the information program. 

I perhaps should make it clear at this time again that these indi- 
viduals were not hired, their works were not purchased, since Mr. 
Dulles took over. They were part of the old Acheson information 
program. 

Who is your first witness, Mr. Cohn ? 

Mr. Cohn. Mr. Millen Brand. 

The Chairman. Mr. Brand? 

You were before us yesterday, Mr. Brand, and certain questions 
came up. At that time you felt that you would want to have a lawyer 
with you. We recessed the hearing so that you could obtain a lawyer. 
I see you do not have a lawyer this morning. You decided not to have 
a lawyer? 

TESTIMONY OF MILLEN BRAND 

Mr. Brand. That is right. 

The Chairman. Will you speak a little louder? And speak into the 
microphone, if you will. 
Mr. Brand. Yes. 

357 



358 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

The Chairman. You understand that you have a right to have a 
lawyer here with you. And, if you have one, you have a right to con- 
sult with him at any time and get ad^dce as freely as you care to. 
You understand that, do you not? 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Mr. Colin, do you care to question the witness ? 

Mr. CoHN. Mr. Chairman, I think I ought to call to your attention 
the fact first that three of Mr. Brand's books were in use by the State 
Department Information Program at the commencement of our in- 
vestigation last month. The books were The Heroes, Niebla, and The 
Outward Room. 

The Chairman. How many copies of those books, and how many 
different information centers, Mr. Cohn ? 

Mr. Cohn. We don't know that. I know of at least six information 
centers in which they are in use. 

The Chairman. In other words, they are three different works of 
this man. But how many copies of each book ? 

Mr. Cohn. We don't have an exact figure on that. We know that 
these 3 are in use, that they are in 6 information centers, but we don't 
know how many copies are in each information center. 

The Chairman. I understand that you requested that information 
from the State Department, and they are cooperating with you fully, 
and that they will supply the information but have not been able to do 
that yet. 

Mr, Cohn. That is correct. Senator. 

The Chairman. Because you have asked for that information on a 
number of books, and you have received full cooperation from them. 

JMr. Cohn. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Will you give us your full name ? 

Mr. Brand. Millen Brand. 

The Chairman. How do you spell that? 

Mr. Brand. The first name is M-i-1-l-e-n. The last name is Brand, 
B-r-a-n-d. 

The Chairman. And what is your occupation as of today ? 

Mr. Brand. Editor and writer. 

The Chairman. Editor and writer? 

Mr. Brand. Yes. 

The Chairman. Are you head of a publishing house today ? 

Mr. Brand. No ; I am an editor at Crown Publishers. 

The Chairman. An editor at Crown Publishers ? 

Mr. Brand. That is right. 

The Chairman. I wonder if I could ask you to speak a little louder, 
if you will. 

What is you particular job at Crown Publishers ? 

Mr. Brand. I am fiction editor. 

The Chairman. And we find that three of your books were pur- 
chased by the old State Department, distributed to a certain number 
of information centers, allegedly for the purpose of fighting com- 
munism. Will you tell us whether you were a member of the Com- 
munist Party at the time these books were written ? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Might I say that those are actually only two titles, because Niebla 
is a Spanish translation of The Outward Room. 



STATE DEPARTMENT mFORJMATION PROGRAM 359 

The Chairman. The question is : Were you a member of the Com- 
munist Party at the time you wrote those books ? 

Mr, Brand. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

The Chairman. Will you please speak a little louder, sir ? 

Mr. Brand. I will try to ; yes. 

The Chairman. You are the first quiet-sj^oken member of the party 
I have found for some time. AVill you try and speak louder? 

Were you a member of the party at the time you wrote these books? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

The Chaii{jman. On the ground that the answer might incriminate 
you? 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You understand, ]\[r. Brand, that you are only en- 
titled to refuse if you honestly think that a truthful answer would 
incriminate you. 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. If you feel that committing perjury might incrim- 
inate you, you are not entitled to refuse to answer. It is only if you 
honestly feel that if you told us whether you were a member of the 
Communist Party, and told us the truth, that might tend to incrimi- 
nate you. 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. I understand that you honestly feel that might 
tend to incriminate you. 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. May I ask you this. Do you carry a Communist 
card with the number 79352 ? 

Mr. Br,\.nd. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

The Chairman. Do you have a card on your person today ? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

The Chairman. You refuse to answer whether you have on your 
person today a Communist card bearing the number 79352 ? 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. On the ground that if you told the truth it might 
tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Have yoii ever engaged in espionage, Mr. Brand ? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

The Chairman. Have you ever engaged in espionage with a Mr. 
Arthur Adams? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Senator Jackson. Did you ever engage in larceny ? 

Mr. Brand. No, sir. 

The Chairman. That is interesting. 

You may proceed, Mr. Cohn. 

Mr. CoHN. Now, Mr. Brand, when you wrote these two books which 
were in use in the State Department information program - 

The Chairman. May I explain my comment, "that is interesting" ? 
The witness, in answer to Mr. Jackson's question, was very free to 
say he had never committed larceny, but when asked whether he had 
committed espionage against the United States, he tells us he can- 



360 STATE DEPARTAIENT INFORMATIOX PROGRAM 

not aiisAver that, because if he did the answer would incriminate him. 
The inference, of course, is very clear that the witness has been en- 
gaging in espionage. 

I think, Mr. Cohn, you should develop at least some of the con- 
tacts he has had with known espionage agents, this man whose works 
are being used or were being used by the old State Department al- 
legedly to fight communism. 

Senator Jackson. Mr. Brand, you feel free to say that you are 
willing to answer the question on larceny. Why do you not show 
your good faith before this committee and state whether or not you 
did or did not, or have not in the past, engaged in espionage? Do 
you think that espionage is not a crime, but that larceny is something 
you feel free to talk about; that as to espionage, treason, that is some- 
thing to •which you are going to rely on your constitutional rights? 

Mr. Brand. Well, I can see the drift of your remarks, but I think 
I should still rely on my constitutional rights here. 

The Chairman. May I say. Senator Jackson, that I think he has 
the right to refuse to answer on the ground that no man need con- 
vict himself, and especially so in view of the information which we 
have on this man. We know that the number of his party card is 
79352. We know that he has been in the party for at least 15 years, 
and apparently up to this present date all the information is that 
he was a member of the Communist Party at the time he wrote books 
for the information program. He has had a great number of espionage 
contacts. And I think if he were forced to answer whether he had 
engaged in espionage or not, he might either be guilty of perjury or 
there might be an espionage case against him, 

I might say this. The rule originally was for the purpose of pro- 
tecting the individual. We find Comnuuiist witnesses now using it to 
protect the Communist conspiracy. It is an abuse of the privilege. 
However, I think under our law he is entitled to invoke the privilege. 

Senator Jackson. Mr. Chairman, both of us as lawyers know that 
he has that right. The only point I am making here: At least we 
have pretty well defined the type of Communist this individual is. 
He is not a philosophical Communist who believes in communism as 
an ideal, but he has gone beyond that, to indicate that he is all-out, 
that he is not only, by implication, a member of the Communist Party, 
but one who is or has been engaged in espionage. So that he cannot 
hide under the cloak of being an idealistic Communist, but he is one 
who apparently, by his exercise of a constitutional right against self- 
incrimination, has made it pretty clear that anything he might say 
in connection with that Communist membership might involve him 
in espionage, which puts him, if there is a difference in categories of 
Communists, as a case where he is an all-out member. 

The Chairman. Right. 

Mr. Brand, might I ask you this question in connection with what 
Senator Jackson has just said. Do you think that if you were trying 
to fight communism, and you were in Acheson's State Department, 
you would have bought the books of a man who himself is a member 
of the Communist Party, who refuses to answer whether he is en- 
gaged in espionage ? Would you think that would be a good way to 
spend the taxpayers' money in fighting communism? Would you 
rather not answer that also ? 

Mr. Brand, I would rather not answer. 



STATE DEPARTMENT IXFORMATION PROGRAM 361 

The Chairman. I guess j'ou are entitled to refuse. 

Senator Potter. Mr. Brand, do you have any idea how your books 
happened to be selected by the Information Service ? 

Mr. Brand. If I answer that question, would I lose my privilege? 

Senator Poti'er. Pardon ? 

Mr. Brand. If I answer that question, do I lose my privilege under 
the fifth amendment? 

The Chairman. If you think the answer might tend to incriminate 
you, if you think the books were selected by some Communist friend 
of yours, you are entitled to refuse to answer. 

Mv. Brand. "What was the question again, sir ? 

Senator Potter. If you have any idea as to how your books hap- 
pened to be selected for use by our Informatin Service. And when I 
say "our Information Service," I mean the former Department of 
State. 

Mr. Brand. Well, if I answer that, as I understand, I don't lose 
my privilege under the fifth amendment ? 

Senator Potter. It all depends on what your answer is, of course. 
I do not know. You are the judge of that. 

The Chairman. I gather you are asking for some legal advice. 
Since you do not have a lawyer here, I will give it to you. Your ques- 
tion is : If you answer that, will you still be entitled to answer other 
questions which 3'ou think might tend to incriminate you by invoking 
your privilege? 

Mr. Brand. Right. 

The Chairman. The answer is: You do not lose the privilege by 
answering anj' question. 

Mr. Brand. Thank you. 

The Chairman. You can only refuse to answer those questions 
which you think might incriminate you if you told the truth, and any 
other questions you must answer. There is no way of losing the 
privilege before a connnittee. 

Senator Potter. Do you care to answer the question? 

Mr. Brand. Yes ; I will answer the question. 

The CHAiRiiAN. What is tlie answer? 

Mr. Brand. Could I have the question repeated? 

Senator Potter. I say: Do you have any idea why the State De- 
j)artment Information Service selected your books? 

Mr. Brand. No ; I do not, sir. 

The CnAiRZiiAN. Do you know of any Communists who were in 
the information program at the time your books were selected, at the 
time your books were purchased? 

Mr. Brand. I believe I should refuse to answer that. 

Senator Potter. Did you know that your books were being used by 
the Information Service ? 

Mr. Brand. What is this Information Service? 

Senator Potter. Well, that is an arm of our State Department 
which is for the purpose of supplying information to fight communism 
overseas. 

Mr. Brand. Is this the Voice of America ? 

Senator Potier. The Voice of America is part of it. Your books 
were used in their library service. Xow, did you have knowledge 
that your books were so being used? 
33616— 53— pt. 6 2 



362 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

Mr. Brand, Again I can answer this question without losing privi- 
lege, I take it. 

Senator Potter. Yes. 

Mr. Brand. No; I did not have knowledge that they were used, 
that I can recall. 

Senator Potter. How old a man are you, Mr. Brand ? 

Mr. Brand, Forty-seven. 

Senator Potter. I assume you were very much opposed to fascism, 
all forms? 

Mr. Brand. This, again, I take it, is a question that does not 
interfere with 

Senator Potter. If I have to serve as your counsel, I must charge 
you a fee. 

Mr. Brand. Well, I might agree to pay for it. 

The Chair]\ian. Wliat was the question ? 

Senator Potter. I asked Mr. Brand if he was opposed to fascism, 
in all forms, 

Mr. Brand. Yes ; I was. 

Senator Potter. You were, and you are, I assume. 

Mr. Brand. Yes. 

Senator Potter. And I assume you are opposed to totalitarianism 
in all forms? 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir; I am. 

Senator Potter. Then I assume that you oppose Soviet communism. 

Mr. Brand. I think I should invoke the fifth amendment on that. 

The Chairman, It is not a question of whether you think you should 
invoke the fifth amendment. The only ground upon which you can 
refuse is to refuse on the ground that if you tell the truth that would 
incriminate you. 

Mr. Brand. I so refuse. 

Senator Potter, Did you serve in the Armed Forces in the fight 
against fascism and nazism in World War II ? 

Mr, Brand. No, sir. 

Senator Potter, What was your draft status? 

Mr. Brand. I was rejected on physical grounds. 

Senator Potter. You would have served, I assume, if you were 
able to? 

Mr, Brand, Yes, sir. 

Senator Potter, I assume that you would serve your country when- 
ever your country needed you ? 

Mr. Brand, Yes, sir. 

Senator Potter, I assume that if you could serve in the fight against 
communism in Korea, you would do that too? 

Mr, Brand. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

The Chairman. You refuse to answer whether you would fight if 
you were called today, in the present war in Korea against the Com- 
munists? You refuse to answer? 

Mr. Brand, Well, might I say that with a line of questioning of 
this sort, you can, you know, go on to a series of questions, and then 
the questions that you don't answer will leave, I think, a false impres- 
sion of what my convictions may be. 

The Chairman. If there is any false impression created, it will be 
created by you, Mr. Brand, We are asking you some very simple 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORIVIATION PROGRAM 363 

questions. The question Senator Potter asked was : Would you serve 
in Korea today in tlie fight against Communists if you were drafted? 
It is a very simple question. 

Mr. Brand. All right. Well, I refuse to answer that question on 
the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman, You do not think the committee is creating any 
false impression by asking you that question, do you? I might say 
you are creating a very true impression of your activities, 1 think, 
in the mind of any reasonable man. 

Mr. Brand. Well, there may be a difference of opinion on that, 
Senator. 

Senator Jackson. Suppose a state of war exists, should exist, in 
the future, between this country and the Soviet Union, as provided for 
under the Constitution, and you were called upon to serve this country. 
Would you serve? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer, on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Senator Jackson. Have you engaged in any treasonable activities? 

]\Ir. Brand. I refuse to answer, on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

The Chairman. Is this the first time you were ever called before a 
committee ? 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you think that it would be well if we were to 
impose communism, or rather a Communist form of government, in 
this country, by the use of force and violence ? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer, on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

The Chairman. Do you think your books distributed in informa- 
tion libraries in various parts of the world would be effective in fight- 
ing communism '. 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer, on the same grounds. 

Tlie Chairman. You refuse to answer that. 

Senator Potter. Do you consider yourself a good, loyal American 
citizen ? 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir ; I do. 

Senator Potter. And yet you refuse to tell the committee whether 
you would serve your country in fighting communism in Korea? 

Mr. Br^vnd. Yes, sir ; I do. 

Senator Potter. You know, there are a lot of men being called to 
fight communism in Korea, and they are not asked wliether tliey would . 
care to do it or not. 

Mr. Brand. That is true, sir. 

Senator Potter. And you claim that you are a loyal American citi- 
zen. You refuse to tell the committee whether you would fight for 
5 our country in a war in which we are now engaged. You refuse to 
tell the committee whether you have engaged in espionage against 
the United States. 

Senator Jackson. And treasonable activities against the United 
States. 

Senator Potter. And treasonable activities against the United 
(States. And you have the gall to sit there and tell me that you are 
a good, loyal American citizen. 

Mr. Brand. That is my honest conviction. Senator. 



364 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATIOX PROGRAM 

The Chairman. I do not think we should waste any time on this. 

Mr. Cohn, do yon have some questions ? 

Mr. CoHN. Mr. Brand, when you wrote these books which have 
been in use in the State Department Inforination Service ])rogram, 
were you in consultation with any members of the Communist Party, 
particularly the literary branch? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer, on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. CoHX. I want to ask you this. The chairman asked you 
whether or not you had engaged in espionage with Arthur Adams, 
and you declined to answer. 

The Chairman. Will you get your microphone closer to you ? It is 
hard for us to hear you. 

Mr. CoHN. I have reference, of course, to the situation involving 
Arthur Adams and some others and a number of scientists, and the 
theft of some information concerning atomic energ}^, things along 
those lines, and their transmittal to the Soviet Union. I am going to 
ask you whether or not you knew a man named Arthur Adams before 
lie left for the Soviet Union. 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Do you know a man by the name of Julius Hyman ? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer, on the same grounds, sir. 

Mr. CoHN. You refuse to tell us whether you were a member of the 
Communist Party when you wrote these books, and whether or not 
you are a member of the Communist Party today. Is that right? 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Cohn. Have you ever stood for tlie overthrow of the United 
States Government by force and violence ? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer on tlie grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Cohn. What is the nature of your duties at Crown Publishei-s 
as editor ? 

Mr. Brand. I select and edit and prepare manuscripts. 

Mr. Cohn. You have a voice in what books should be printed? 

Mr. Brand. Not a decisive voice. 

Mr. Cohn. Not a decisive voice, but a voice ; is that right ? 

Mr. Brand. That is right. 

Senator Potter. Does the publisher know of your philosophy of 
government? Does he know that you are a member of the Commu- 
nist Party ? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer on tlie grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Cohn. Have you ever written any book reviews ? 

Mr. Brand. Some ; yes. 

Mr. Cohn. For what publications ? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

The Chairman. Just a minute. I do not think that comes within 
your privilege. Yes, on second thought, I believe if you wrote for a 
Communist publication, you might be entitled to the privilege. 

Mr. Cohn. Did you ever write for the New Masses ? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 365 

Mr. CoHX. Did you ever do any writing? for the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to auswer on the same orounds. 

Mr. CoiiN. I thinlv it is a matter of public record that you have 
Avritten reviews for the Saturday Eeview of Literature, have you not^ 

Mr. Braxd. Am I privileged to answer that without losing my privi- 
lege in this category i 

Mr. Coiix. Yes. 

Mr, Brand. Yes ; I have. 

The Chairman. May I ask the advice of our counsel here and the 
other Senators ^ I think we have the power to subpena any documents 
which the witness has with him. I have good reason to believe that he 
has on his person as of this moment a card in the Communist Party, 
No. 79352. I am not sure whether that would be an invasion of his 
right under the fifth amendment or not to subpena the document. 

Senator Jackson. He is testifying, then, against himself. 

The Chairman. I am inclined to think so ; yes. 

Senator Jackson. I think the privilege extends to documents that 
would incriminate him. 

The Chairman. What would your thought be on that. Senator? 
I am inclined to think Mr. Jackson is right. 

Senator Symington. I am inclined to think so, too, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Senator SjMuington, do you have some (questions 
to ask? 

Senator Symington. I am sorry I came in late. Yesterday you 
said you wanted to get a lawyer. Did you get a lawyer ? 

Mr. Brand. No, sir. 

Senator Symington. Did you decide you did not need a lawyer ? 

Mr. Brand. Well, I didn't bring a lawyer. 

The Chairman. I think we should inquire whether he talked to a 
lawyer since then. 

Senator Symington. Did you have a chance to talk to a lawyer 
3'esterday ^ 

Mr. Brand. I did talk to a lawyer. 

Senator Symington. But I think the idea was that we were not 
going to question you further until you had a chance to talk with a 
lawyer. And your discussion this morning is after your discussion 
with that lawyer. Is that right? 

Mr. Brand. Well, actually, I just discussed whether I would have 
counsel. I was not advised as to how to handle myself. 

Senator Symington. Now, could I ask you just a couple of ques- 
tions ? Do you think you are a good American ? 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. 

Senator Symington. Could you be a good American and be in an 
orzanization that is dedicated to overthrowing the United States 
Government ? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Senator Syimington. If you were a Communist in the past, that is 
understandable, but how could you be a good American and be a 
Communist now ? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer on the gi'ounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Senator Symington. Well, if you left the Communist Party, why 
are you not glad and proud to say that you did it, with us fighting 



366 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

the Communists in Korea? Wliy are you ashamed of it, or afraid to 
answer ? 

The Chairman. May I say, Senator, there is no indication that he 
has ever left the party. He has refused to answer whether as of today 
he is carrying a Communist card. We gave him tlie number of his 
card. 

Mr. Brand. This, I take it, is a matter of the right of privacy. I 
think I should invoke that. 

The Chairman. If that is the ground upon which you invoke it, 
you must answer the question. 

Mr. Brand. No ; I invoke it on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. Self-incrimination? 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. 

Senator Stiniington. So that even though you may have been a 
Communist and you are a good American in your opinion, you still 
will not answer and tell us whether you are a Communist now. Is 
that right? 

Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. 

Senator Symington. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Potter. Do you think it has been a prudent use of the tax- 
payers' money to purchase your books to use in our Information 
Service library ? 

Mr. Brand. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

The Chairman. I doubt whether we should waste any more time 
with this witness. 

Senator Jackson. Just one question, Mr. Chairman. 

You are familiar with the present Russian Government and the 
constitutional provisions that are accorded as to rights of citizens in 
the Soviet Union ? 

Mr. Brand. I won't lose privilege if I answer that, I take it ? 

Senator Jackson. You will not lose it as to other questions; of 
course not. 

The Chairman. You can only refuse to answer a question if you 
feel the answer might incriminate you. Now, Mr. Brand, you are not 
quite as dumb as you try to make out here today. If so, the Crown 
Publishing Co. has awfully bad judgment in hiring you. You were 
in 3-esterday, and you said you wanted a lawyer. Did you consult a 
lawyer since you saw us yesterday ? 

]\Ir. Brand. I talked with a lawyer about his advising me. 

The Chairman, Whom did you talk to ? 

■Mr. Brand. Murdaugh Madden. 

The Chairman. Is he a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Brand. I have no knowledge of his being a member. 

Senator Jackson. Is he an attorney here in town, or New York? 

Mr. Brand. Here in town. I simply discussed whether I could get 
advice, and the decision was that I would not take counsel, and there 
was no advice as to how I should handle myself. 

Senator Jackson. Mr. Brand, to get back to my question, I think 
it was made clear in previous colloquies here this morning, that the 
fact that you do answer a question does not preclude your right to 
invoke the fifth amendment as to future questions if you can con- 
conscientiously do so, as previously explained to you. I have asked 
you a historical question. Are you familiar with the constitutional 
provisions in the Soviet Union ? 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGR.^M 367 

Mr. Brand. No, sir ; I am not familiar with them. 

Senator Jackson. Is it not a fact that if you were sitting in the 
Soviet Union today you would not have any fifth amendment to invoke 
over there ? 

Mr, Brand. I am really not familiar with this area of discussion. 

Senator Jackson. Well, you are apparently a pretty good member 
of the Communist Party. I thought you would be sufficiently indoc- 
trinated to answer that question, because that is part of the line, 
about their right of civil liberties, and so on. 

The Chair3ian. I might say, Mr. Brand, that if you were in the 
Soviet Union today and you were asked whether you had committed 
espionage against the Soviet Union for the United States, you would 
have very small chance of getting any life insurance. 

You ma}' step down. 

A^Hio is your next witness ? 

Mr. CoHN. Mr. Harvey Matusow, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairivian. Mr. Matusow, will you raise your right hand ? 

In this matter now in hearing before the committee, do you solemnly 
swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do. 

Mr. CoHN. Mr. Matusow, have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party? 

TESTIMONY OF HARVEY MATUSOW 

Mr. Matusow. I have. 

Mr. CoHN. From what year until what year ? 

Mr. Matusow. From 1947 until 1951. 

Mr. CoHN. And did you leave the party in 1951? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. CoHN. You served in the Armed Forces, did you not? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. CoHN. From what years ? 

Mr. Matusow. I served "in the Armed Forces during World War II, 
was discharged in 1916, and reenlisted in the Air Force in 1951 for 
the Korean war; and was discharged in 1952. 

Mr. CoHN. And you say you joined the party in 1947. Is that 
right? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Mr. CoHN. And you did not leave the party until 1951? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Mr. CoHN. Now, when you left the Communist Party, did you vol- 
untarily go to the FBI and cooperate fully with them and with the 
Department of Justice and furnish to them all information within 
your possession concerning the Communist conspiracy of which you 
had been a part? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct to an extent. I contacted the FBI 
while I was in the Conununist Party. 

The Chairman. I think it should be clear that while you were in 
the Communist Party, I understand, you were furnishing tlie FBI 
from day to day with information. 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 



368 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

Mr. CoHN. You furnished them Avith rej)orts and information, and 
then when you left the party j'ou took the witness stand at the trial 
in Foley Square against the Communist leaders and various other 
trials whenever you have been subpenaed and called upon to do so 
by the United States Government. Is that true ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have. 

The Chairman. Just so we have the record clear, Mr. Matusow, is 
it correct to say that while you were in the Communist Party you were 
in the Communist Party as an FBI undercover agent? 

Mr. Matusow. For a period of time, yes. 

Senator Potter. Did you join the Communist Party of your own 
volition, or at the instigation of the FBI ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, at my own volition. I was fii^t contacted while 
I was in the Army. 

Mr. CoHN. Then you contacted the FBI while you were in the 
party, and even though you were ready to break, you agreed to stay, 
and you stayed in and furnished the FBI information as to the party 
activity ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Mr. CoiiN. And when you left, you cooperated fully with the 
Government, testifying when you were called upon to do so. Is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. Correct. 

Mr. CoHN. Now, jVIr. Matusow, did you ever attend any Communist 
Party training schools? 

Mr. Matusow. I attended Communist Party schools in New York. 

Mr. CoiiN. Can you name some of those schools? 

Mr. Matusow. The main Communist Party school in New York is 
the Jefferson School of Social Science, at 575 Sixth Avenue, New 
York. 

Mr. CoHX. And when you were in the Communist movement, did 
you attend the Jefferson school? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. CoHisr. Am I correct in assuming the members of the faculty 
of the Jefferson School are Communist Party members? 

Mr. Matusow. All members of the faculty are members of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. CoHN. And you were taught communism at the Jefferson 
School ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Mr. CoiiN. And when you studied at the Jefferson School, did you 
come across a man by the name of Herbert Aptheker? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. CoHN. And who was Mr. Aptheker? 

Mr. Matusow. He was an instructor at the school and a lecturer. 
He is also an author of books which are used as the official Communist 
Party line in relation to the Negi-o question in the United States. 

Mr. CoHN., Now, you identify Mr. Aptheker, then, as an in- 
structor at the Jefferson School, as an author of books officially used 
by the Communist Party on Negi-o questions. Is that correct? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Mr. CoiiN. Did you know Mr. Aptheker at the Jeffei-son School and 
when you were in the Communist movement? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 369 

Mr. CoHN. Was he a member of the Commmiist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. He was. 

Mr. CoHN. And an active and leading member? 

Mr. Matusow. Active and leading; yes. 

Mr. CoHN. Did you use any of Mr. Aptheker's books in the course 
of your Communist studies when you were in the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. And I would like to give the committee a 
document here, an official Communist Party document, which states 
the purpose of the use of one of Mr. Aptheker's books. 

Mr. CoHN. I think that would be very helpful. 

The Chairman. While Mr. Matusow is getting that, Mr. Cohn, may 
I ask: Have Mr. Aptheker's books been used in our information 
program ? 

Mr. CoHKT. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Aptheker's books have been 
widely used in the State Department information program; in fact, 
the same books published by the Communist Party official publishing 
house and which were used in the Communist school and used by the 
Communist Party. 

The Chairman. Do you know, roughly, how many books ? 

Mr. CoHN. Yes; we know of four books — American Negro Slave 
Revolts; A Documentary History of the Negro in the United States; 
Essays in the History of the American Negro ; and The Negro People 
in America : A Critique. 

The Chairman. How many of those books, do you know ? 

Mr. Cohn. We don't have a full total on that. I see over 40 spe- 
cifically listed here. There might be some in addition to that. 

The Chairman. I understand Secretary Dulles has ordered those 
removed from the library now. 

Mr. CoHN. Secretary Dulles has ordered removed, as we under- 
stand it, books by all Communist authors, and I would assume that 
would certainly include books by Mr. Aptheker. 

I might say we have observed that one of these books on our trip 
abroad was located in the Information Service library in London. 

Senator Potter. Are these books on the open shelf ? 

Mr. CoHN. All of these books are on the open shelves. 

Is that document that you have in your hand an official publica- 
tion of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is a photostat of an official Communist Party 
publication. 

Mr. CoHN. Wliich publication is that ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is a magazine called Clarity, No. 2. There were 
two editions of it. Issued by the New York State Communist Party, 
educational department, 35 East 12th Street, New York. 

(The photostat referred to above was marked as "Exhibit No. 34" 
and may be found in the files of the subcommittee.) 

Mr. CoHN. Now, does this book, issued by the educational depart- 
ment of the New York State Communist Party, this pamphlet, make 
any reference to any of Mr. Aptheker's books ? 

Mr. Matusow. It does. On the last page they keep plugging the 
magazine Clarity as the official Communist Party line on the Negro 
question. Near the bottom of the page it says, "Further reading on 
the Negro question," and included in that list of four books is Essays in 
the History of the American Negro, by Herbert Aptheker, one of the 
books you just mentioned. 

S3616— 53— pt. G 3 



370 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

Mr. CoHN. Mr. Chairman, I might say that this book, Essays in 
the History of the American Negro, by ^Mr. Aptheker, which book 
is published by the Communist Party Educational Department, 31 
copies of that book were purchased by the old State Department infor- 
mation program and have been in use, unless withdrawn under Secre- 
tary Dulles' directive. 

The Chairman. In other words, the required reading in the Com- 
munist school is also required material on our bookshelves. Right ? 

Mr. CoHN. That appears to be the case, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairmax. I wonder, Mr. Matusow : Would you give us a 
brief resume of the type of training you got at this Communist school ? 

Mr. Matusow. When I was at the Jefferson School, I took a course 
called Institute of Marxist Studies, which included a study in Marxism 
and trade unions, the role of the Communist Party in the labor unions, 
that is, Communist activities in relation to the Negro question ; com- 
munism; a course in political economy, which was a basic Marxist 
economic course on their viewpoint of how a society should be run 
economically, and, well, those are the only courses I do remember, 
offhand. 

The Chairman. Did you run some Communist bookstores while you 
were both a member of the party and also working for the FBI ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I did. I worked at the Jefferson School Bookstore, 
which is a Communist bookshop, which was under the management of 
the Communist Party Literature Department, at Communist national 
headquarters. I also worked at the Workers Bookshop, Avhich is lo- 
cated in the former headquarters of the Communist Party. I also 
worked at the bookshop at Camp Unity, a Communist Party summer 
camp, and the Jefferson School summer camp. Camp Sherwood, where 
I managed the bookshop. 

The CiiAiRinAN. Where were these camps located? 

Mr. Matusow. In the State of New York. 

Senator Jackson. I want to get something clear in my mind. You 
said you were Jfirst approached to join the Communist Party about the 
time you were in the Army, or about the time you were getting out? 

Mr. Matusow. While I was in the Army, sir. 

Senator Jackson. What year was that ^ 

Mr. JMatusow. 1945. 

Senator Jackson. Where was it ? 

Mr, Matusow. In Germany. In France. 

Senator Jackson, Who approached you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the name of the individual. I am try- 
ing to find out who that is now. 

Senator Potter. Can you not tell the committee who asked you to 
join ? Did they just come up by accident ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, there were a group of Communists in my 
unit, the 106th Infantry Division, 

The Chairman. May I say, Mr. Jackson : We are asking Mr. Matu- 
sow to give us in executive session a list of all of the Communist that he 
knew, in line with what you ask. 

Senator Jackson. The names shouldn't be made public here. But 
you will try to supply them to the committee ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Definitely. 

Senator Jackson. You got out in 1946. Wliere did you live then ? 

Mr. Matusow. In New York City. 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 371 

Senator Jackson. Are you from New York City ? 

]Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Senator Jackson. And you joined the Communist Party of your 
own volition in 1946? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Senator Jackson. Did someone ask you to join? 

Mr. Matusow. First I joined the counterpart of the Young Com- 
munist League at that time, the American Youth for Democracy. 

Senator Jackson. In New York? 

Mr. Matusow. And was a member of that organization for about 
a year. 

Senator Jackson. 'V\Tien was that ? In 1946 ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Senator Jackson. So that you were into the Communist Party be- 
fore 1947? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, officially not in the Communist Party ; in the 
Communist movement from 1946; right. 

Senator Jackson. And were you in New York from 1947 to 1951? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. No, in 1950, 1 went to New Mexico. 

Senator Jackson. Where were you in 1946 ? 

Mr. M vtusow. In New York Cit}'. 

Senator Jackson. In 1947? 

Mr. JMatusow. In New York. 

Senator Jackson. And 1948 ? 

Mr. Matusow. New York. 

Senator Jackson. Up until 1950? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Senator Jackson. And when did you first get in touch with the 
FBI? 

]\Ir. Matusow. In early 1950. 

Senator Jackson. In early 1950. 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct, sir. 

Senator Jackson. Did you engage in any espionage activities? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not engage in espionage activities, as such. 
After I had contacted the FBI, a delegate to the United Nations from 
Czechoslovakia, who was a friend of mine, asked me to go to New 
Mexico, near Los Alamos, where I had been living, and see if I could 
obtain any information in connection with our atomic program. 

Senator Jackson. The Los Alamos project at Los Alamos, N. Mex, ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Senator Jackson. And what about prior to your getting in touch 
with the FBI ? 

Mr. Matusow. No espionage activities. 

Senator Jackson. Nothing along that line at all? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Senator Jackson. But afterward, in cooperation with the FBI, you 
did go out, still as a member of the Communist Party, to New Mexico? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Senator Jackson. And that was to carry out the request of this 
Czechoslovakian diplomat at the United Nations? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Senator Jackson. Now, what did you do after you left New Mexico ? 
Did you work out there? 

Mr. Matusow. In New Mexico, I went to school. 



372 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

Senator Jackson. Wliat kind of work did you do in New Mexico 
and New York ? 

Mr. Matusow. Public-relations work, some writing; advertising 
agency. 

Senator Jackson. What agency? 

Mr. Matusow. Grey, G-r-e-y. 

Senator Jackson. What did you do in New Mexico ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not much of anything. I went to school mostly, 
under the GI bill of rights. 

Senator Jackson. And what did you do in 1952? 

Mr. Matusow. In 1952, when I got out of the Air Force, I became 
an investigator for the Ohio State Un-American Activities Committee, 
Columbus, Ohio. I was there until June, early June, or late May of 
1952. I then went to work for the publication called, Counter Attack, 
and worked there until August, at which time all my time was taken 
up in preparing testimony in the trial of the 13 convicted Communist 
leaders. 

Senator Jackson. Then what else did you do in 1952 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I worked actively in the political campaign. 

Senator Jackson. Whom were you working for in the political 
campaign ? 

Mr, Matusow. Various organizations. 

Senator Jackson. What organizations? 

Mr. Matusow. In Montana, there is the Montana Citizens for 
America. In Utah, I was out there with the Republican Party. 

Senator Jackson. You were working for the Republican Party in 
Utah? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct, sir. And in the State of Washing- 
ton, I campaigned against you, Senator Jackson, I believe, sir. 

Senator Jackson. And who else were you against? 

Mr. Matusow. I was in the Wisconsin primary prior to September. 

Senator Sytmington. Did you campaign against Senator Jackson 
before you left the Communist Party or afterward ? 

Mr, Matusow. Afterward. I believe I made three speeches in the 
State of Washington. 

Senator Jackson. And in Montana? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I made about two speeches. 

Senator Jackson. Who did you work for in Montana ? 

Mr. Matusow. An organization called the Montana Citizens for 
Americanism. 

Senator Jackson. What kind of an organization is that? Wlio is 
behind it? 

Mr. Matusow. The national committeeman of the American Legion, 
Mr, Overcash of Cut Bank, Mont., is the head of the organization. 

Senator Jackson. Did you say the American Legion? 

Mr. Matusow. No, you said who. 

Senator Jackson. Yes. 

Mr, Matusow. He is the national committeeman for the American 
Legion in Montana. 

Senator Jackson. Did it have any connection with the American 
Legion ? 

Mr. Matusow. None whatsoever. 

Senator Jackson. Then why did you mention the American Legion ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, you asked me who was the individual. 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 373 

Senator .Tackson. No ; I asked you wlio was behind the organization. 

Mr. Matusow. A group of citizens in Montana. 

The Chairman. May I aslc that I think we can cut this short by 
asking you this question: You were very active in Eisenhower's 
campaign and the campaign of other Republicans. You did not cam- 
paign for Democrats last fall. Is that correct? 

Senator Jackson. Well, I think his whole background ought to be 
in the record. 

Mr. Mattjsow. I do happen to be a Republican. I am proud of it. 

Senator Symington. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question ? 

Did your pride and your sincerity and your integrity carry on 
to the point where before you campaigned for the Republicans you 
mentioned you admitted to your audiences that you had been a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

jNIr. Matusow. Always, sir. 

Senator Symington. You always' told them that in every speech ? 

Mr. Matusow. I always started my speeches saying I joined the 
Communist Party of my own volition. 

Senator Jackson. Did you, in Montana, mention that you were 
sponsored by the Legion, in any of the meetings out there? 

Mr. Matusow. At no meetings whatsoever. 

Senator Jackson. Were the meetings billed that way ? 

Mr. Matusow. They were not. 

Senator Jackson. You are sure about that? 

Mr. Matusow. In no meeting did I say it was billed by the Ameri- 
can Legion. I would like to furnish you copies of the handbills, sir, 
if you would like them. 

The CHArRMA.N. Anything further? 

Mr. CoHN. Just one last question, Mr. Matusow. 

We want you down, and we want you back again, but to get back to 
the subject matter of the morning, I was going to ask you this : The 
book which was referred to in this official publication of the educa- 
tional department of the Communist Party you produced here was en- 
titled, "Essays in the History of the American Negro," by Herbert 
Aptheker. Is that correct? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Mr. CoHN. By the way, in this Communist school, were you taught 
anything as to how the Communist Party was to come to power in 
the United States? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; we were taught that. 

Mr. CoHN. What were you taught? 

Mr. Matusow. The Communist line is that the bourgeoisie or capi- 
talism will not give up without a struggle ; therefore we have to take 
arms to overthrow this bourgeoisie or capitalism. 

Mr. CoHN. Now, Mr. Chairman, if we could have Mr. Matusow 
step aside for a few minutes, I want to call Mr, Herbert Aptheker 
to the stand. 

The Chairman. Will you step aside, Mr. Matusow ? 

Will you just sit back there, Mr. Matusow? 

Dr. Aptheker? Will you raise your right hand. Doctor? 

In this matter in hearing before the committee, do you solemnly 
swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mr. Aptheker. I do. 



374 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

The Chairman. I understand you are here with counsel, Dr. Apthe- 
ker. Your counsel is Mr. Joseph Forer. 

Mr. Forer, I think you know all the right a counsel has here. We 
have explained that before. 

Mr. Forer. Yes, sir ; I do. 

The Chairman. And you understand, Doctor, you can confer with 
your counsel at such time as you care to whenever you desire to. 

Mr. Cohn? 

Mr. CoHN. Mr. Aptheker, are you the author of a book entitled 
"Essays in the History of the American Negro," which is in use m the 
State Department information program? 

TESTIMONY OF HEEBERT APTHEKER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, JOSEPH FORER 

Mr. Aptheker. Do you have the book there ? 

Mr. Cohn. Yes, sure. Right there. 

Mr. Aptheker. Do you want to pass it to me ? 

Mr. Cohn. Yes, surely, if you can't recognize it. I need it back, 
too. 

Mr. Aptheker. You want to know whether I wrote this book ? 

The Chairman. Doctor, will you get nearer to the microphone ? 

Mr. Aptheker. I am the author of that book. 

Mr. Cohn. You are the author; is that right? 

Mr. Aptheker. Yes; I am the author. 

Mr. Cohn. And this book, of course — Mr. Chairman, 31 copies have 
been in use in the State Department information program. 

The Chairman. Thirty-one different information libraries? 

Mr. Cohn. No ; the figure on that is 31 copies. Thirty-one copies 
are in use or have been in use unless removed under Secretary Dulles' 
order. 

The Chairman. And this is the same book Mr. Matusow described 
as "must" reading in the Communist school ? 

Mr. Cohn. That is correct. That is correct, Mr. Chairman, and in 
which the documentary evidence he has supplied for the educational 
department so indicates. 

Dr. Aptheker, wheti you wrote this book which has been in use in 
the State Department information program, were you a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Aptheker. I will not answer such a provocative question, for 
the following reasons 

The Chairman. Would you get nearer to the microphone so that we 
can hear you. Doctor ? 

Mr. Aptheker. I said I would not answer such a provocative ques- 
tion, for the following reasons : Such a question, living in the condi- 
tions in which we do live, subjects one to the possibility of becoming 
an informer, than which there is nothing more dastardly. Such a 
question is also, in my opinion, obviously directed toward violating 
the first amendment of the Constitution of the United States. Such 
an amendment plays into the hands of guilt by association tactics, 
notoriously practiced by this committee. 

I further refuse to answer this provocative question on the basis of 
the fifth amendment, which protects me against being a witness against 
myself. 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 375 

For these reasons, I will not answer this loaded question. 

The Chairman. Do you tell us today that you feel that if you were 
to truthfully answer the question as to whether you were a member 
of the Communist Party at the time you wrote this book that answer 
might tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr, Aptheker. Well, Senator, I think I have answered the question. 

The Chairman. I will require you to answer this question. You 
understand that you are privileged to refuse to answer any question 
that you feel that a truthful answer might tend to incriminate you. 
You cannot refuse to answer if you feel that if you perjure yourself 
it would incriminate you. It is only if you feel a truthful answer to 
this question of whether or not you were a Communist at the time you 
wrote the book would tend to incriminate you that you can refuse to 
answer. 

So, my question to you now is: Do you tell the committee, under 
oath, that you feel that a truthful answer to that question, as to 
whether you were a Communist, would tend to incriminate you ? And 
I shall order you to answer that question. 

Mr. Aptheker. I appreciate your concern, Senator. 

The Chairman. Thank j-ou. 

Mr. Aptheker. There was certainly no intent to commit perjury 
by me. Since you put it the way you do, and direct me the way you 
do, in addition to the reasons which I gave, it might tend to incrim- 
inate, yes. 

The Chairman. You said you think there is nothing more dastardly 
than an informer. Do you think it would be a dastardly act for you 
or any other American to inform of acts of espionage against the 
United States ? Would that be a dastardly act ? 

Mr. Aptheker. Clearly, in my opinion, this is not my usage of 
"informer." 

The Chairman. In other words, you think it would be proper to 
inform as to espionage activities ? 

Mr. Aptheker. If actual knowledge of espionage is held by some- 
one, it would certanly not be dastardly or incorrect to let authorities 
know of such act. 

The Chairman. Have you ever engaged in either espionage or 
sabotage? 

Mr. Aptheker. Certainly not. 

The Chairman. You have not. 

The previous witness was on the stand, whose books also were being 
purchased, and he has refused to state whether he was engaged in 
treasonable activities or espionage activities. Would you say that 
such an individual's books should be used in a figlit for America? 

Mr. Aptheker. Well, there is a non sequitur in your question. I 
don't see what the first part has to do with the second part. 

Tlie Chatrisiax. Well, we will not aslv you to answer. I guess you 
would not be an authority on that anyway. Are you a member of the 
Communist Party as of today, as of this moment? 

Mr. Aptheker. I refuse to answer that question for the reasons 
already stated. Senator. 

The Chairman. On the ground that if vou were to answer, the 
answer might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Aptheker. Might tend to and also the other reasons which I 
gave. Apparently only one holds up. 



376 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

Senator Jackson. Can you distinguish between a Communist who 
stands on his constitutional right to refuse to answer the question of 
whether he is or is not a member of the Communist Party 

The Chairman. May I ask the photographers not to take flash 
pictures while the witness is testifying ? I think it is extremely diffi- 
cult for him to testify while you are doing that. I know you young 
men are sent here to take pictures and you may take pictures other than 
flash pictures unless the witness objects. 

Mr. Aptheker. I have no objection — no particular objection. 

The Chairman. If you do not mind their taking flash pictures, they 
may be permitted to do that, unless it disconcerts you. 

Mr. Aptheker. That is the least disconcerting feature here, sir. 

The Chairman. You may take your pictures, then. 

Senator Jackson. If I may restate the question : Can you distin- 
guish between the Communist who relies on his constitutional pre- 
rogative against self-incrimination and refuses to answer whether he 
or she is a member of the Communist Party, and a Communist who 
broadens that exercise of the constitutional privilege provided for in 
the fifth amendment to not only include the refusal to state whether 
he or she is or has been a member of the Communist Party but also 
includes the refusal and the exercise and the invocation of the fifth 
amendment on the question of espionage and sabotage ? 

Mr. Aptheker. Can I distinguish between them, did you say? 

Senator Jackson. Yes. Are there two different kinds of Commu- 
nists now ? In other words, is there a philosophical Communist, who 
sincerely believes in an objective use of the Communist state and is 
a member on that basis, and then the other Communist, who appar- 
ently goes all the way and includes in his membership responsibilities 
the necessity of engaging in espionage and sabotage ? 

Mr. Aptheker. No. The answer to your question is not as in- 
volved as your question would tend to indicate. The refusal to 
answer such questions is simply a hallmark of the intimidation which 
is prevalent in the country. People react differently to such 
intimidation. 

Senator Jackson. Well, you realize you cannot invoke the fifth 
amendment unless you conscientiously believe that it will tend to 
incriminate you. In. other words, you may later be indicted for a 
violation of a Federal law. And, incidentally, the right of self- 
incrimination does not apply to a violation of a State law. It only 
applies to a violation of a Federal law, as I understand, before this 
committee. 

Senator Potter. A criminal action. 

Senator Jackson. Well, a criminal action. But it is limited, I 
believe, to a violation of Federal law. 

Mr. Aptheker. I understand that there is no inference of guilt in 
refusing to answer, and that the fifth amendjnent was put there to 
protect the innocent as well as the guilty, and as a very important part 
of our civil rights. 

The Chairman. May I say to the witness that he is incorrect when 
he says that there is no inference of guilt. There is no inference of 
guilt in a criminal action. Eefusal to answer this question in a 
criminal court could not be used against you to infer you are guilty. 
However, when you are asked a question as to whether or not you 
are a member of the Communist Party, and you say, "I honestly feel 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 377 

if I told you the truth it might incriminate me," that means to tlie 
average person, it means to me, that if you were not a member of the 
party you, of course, could say, "I am not a member of the Commu- 
nist Party," and that would not incriminate you, and the only pos- 
sible way you could be incriminated there is if you are a member of 
the party; so that there is the strong inference when a witness such 
as the last witness is asked a question, "Did you ever commit larceny ?" 
and he says, "No, I never committed larceny," very freely answering 
the question — the second last witness it was — and then is asked the 
question, "Did you ever commit espionage?" and he says, "I refuse to 
answer that because if I answer," he said in effect, "I might go to 
jail," you see, there is the strong inference that he has been engaged 
in espionage. Because if he had not, he could very simply say he 
had not been engaged in it. I think we should have it very clear 
here that there is a difference between inference of guilt in a criminal 
case which could be used to send you to jail, and the inference which 
the reasonable man draws from your answer. 

Mr. Aptheker. I do not agree with that position. 

The Chairman. You have a right to disagree, of course. 

Mr. Aptheker. I want to say something further since you spoke 
at length, if you don't mind. Senator. 

The Chairman. You may. 

Mr. Aptheker. First of all, you put words into my mouth as to the 
reason why I did not reply. My reason for not replying is a matter of 
record, and I stand on what I said. I am not quite done, if you don't 
mind. 

The Chairman. Let us have the record clear at this point. 

Mr. Aptheker. May I finish, sir? 

The Chairman. No ; let us have the record clear so that you will 
understand this. The only ground upon which you can refuse to an- 
swer is if you tell the committee that you feel that a truthful answer 
might tend to incriminate you. There is no other ground upon which 
you can refuse to answer before this committee. 

Senator Jackson. It cannot be on any propaganda ground. It 
cannot be on any philosophical ground. It has to be on that ground 
and that ground alone. That is what the constitutional amendment 
is there for. 

Mr. Aptheker. I understand that. 

Senator Jackson. So it is not fair for you to turn around and say 
the reason you are not answering is that it is guilt by association or 
that it is a lot of other references that you might want to throw in. 
There is only one answer that you can give when you exercise that 
privilege. Otherwise you are not conscientiously abiding by the con- 
stitutional provisions. 

Mr. Aptheker. I don't agree with that, either, sir. 

Senator Jackson. You are not entitled to the privilege otherwise. 

Mr, Aptheker. Both of you gentlemen have spoken about 10 or 15 
minutes. Am I to have a chance to reply ? 

The Chairman. No; you will have a chance to answer questions. 
We are not going to hear any speeches. When a witness comes before 
us who has been identified as a member of the Communist Party, who 
refuses to tell whether he is a member of the Communist Party, we 
are not hearing any speeches from him. 

Mr. Aptheker. I didn't wish to make any speeches. 

33616 — 53— pt. 6— —4 



378 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

The Chairman. You can go back to your Communist school and 
make your speeches. Now you will only answer the questions. 

Do you have some questions, Senator Symington ? 

Senator Symington. I would like to ask you a question. 

Wliere were you born ? 

Mr. Aptheker. In Brooklyn, sir. 

Senator Symington. And how old are you ? 

Mr. Aptheker. Thirty-seven. 

Senator Symington. And how long have you been a Communist? 

Mr. Aptheker. I refuse to answer that question, on the grounds 
already stated. 

Senator Symington. Are you a Communist now ? 

Mr. Aptheker. Same answer, sir. 

Senator Symington. Do you think you are a good American ? 

Mr. Aptheker. Yes, sir. 

Senator Symington. Would you be a good American if you be- 
longed to an organization that is dedicated to the destruction of our 
system of government ? 

Mr. Aptheker. I think I had better refuse to answer that question. 
Actually, I think, since you have put it in an opinion form, I would 
say "No" to your question. 

Senator Jackson. Are there two different kinds of Communists, a 
philosophical Communist who does not believe in espionage and sabo- 
tage, as a part of the party membership, and one who does believe in 
espionage and sabotage as a part of the fulfillment of the member- 
ship ? Can you answer that question ? 

Mr. Aptheker. You request my opinion on that, Senator, and I will 
offer my opinion. My opinion is that there are not such Communists 
at all ; that espionage, as you put it, in relation to this, is a monstrous 
hoax. 

Senator Jackson. Your statement is that Communist Party mem- 
bers do not engage in espionage or sabotage ? 

jNIr. Aptheker. I did not mean to convey any special knowledge. 
You asked for an opinion. I am offering an opinion, on the basis of 
my knowledge, what I think I know, what my opinion is, and my reply 
to you is a negative one. 

Senator Jackson. WJiat is your opinion, then ? 

Mr. Aptheker. On what? 

Senator Jackson. Well, just answer this very simple question. In 
your opinion, do members of the Communist Party, as a part of their 
membership and actiAaties, engage, any of them, in espionage or sabo- 
tage against this Government? I have asked for your opinion. 

Mr. Aptheker. In my opinion, no. 

Senator Jackson. They do not. Is that your answer? 

Mr. Aptheker. That is what I have just said, yes, sir. 

Senator Symington. You mentioned that you thought there was 
nothing more dastardly than being an informer. "Despicable,"' I 
think was the word. If you had been a member of the Communist 
Party, and decided that the Communist Party was a menace to Amer- 
ica, and that your first obligation was to America, would it not be 
more proper for you to inform the truth with respect to you relations 
with the Communist Party than it would be not to inform ? Would 
not your first loyalty come to your country as against your own per- 
sonal opinion? 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 379 

Mr. Aptheker. Sir, I mean no disrespect in saying that your ques- 
tion presumes so much which, in my opinion, is falhicious, viciously 
so, that a question with such a premise cannot have a logical or a rea- 
sonable answer. 

Senator Symington. What did you mean by the word "informer" ? 

Mr. Aptheker. What did I mean by the word ? 

Senator Syiviington. Yes; you answered the first question when 
you came here by using the word "informer." Wliat did you mean 
by that? 

Mr. Aptheker. I meant what is normally meant by it, what the 
dictionary meant by it, what the film, The Informer meant. 

Senator Symington. I did not ask you what the dictionary says 
about it. I asked you what you meant by the word. 

Mr. Aptheker. That is how I am answering. 

Senator Symington. Answer what you meant by the word. 

Mr. Aptheker. I answer that I am using the word in the normal 
dictionary sense. An informer is universally despised because he, 
with malice aforethought, and for reasons usually of personal gain, 
informs, historically always inaccurately, because that is his function, 
on other people. 

Senator Potter. Of course, an informer has to have some material 
to pass on, to inform about. I have never heard yet of an informer 
for the YMCA or the Boy Scouts. 

Mr. Aptheker. Well, an informer is a political term. You have 
heard of political informers, Senator, in Irish history, in French his- 
tory, in Italian history. You know of informers. 

Senator Potter. And many of those people have given us great in- 
formation about a menace that the people were anxious to have the 
information about. When you have an underground, secret group, 
the best and probably the only way you can gain information is 
through informers. And those informers, many of them, do it at 
great risk to themselves, great damage to their own reputation. But 
when you have a group that is secretive, that is underground, and 
they are underground because they feel that the public will not ac- 
cept them if they are above ground, the best and only way that I 
know of is through the use of people who report on those activities. 

Mr. Aptheker. I think you are wrong, and I think the history of 
the labor movement, for example, would show that you are wrong. 

The Chairman. May I ask you a question ? The witness who has 
just left the stand testified that you were a member of the Communist 
Party. Did you think that was a dastardly act on his part? 

Mr. Aptheker. I think the person is a dastardly individual. I 
think that that act was a dastardly act. 

The Chairman. Did you think it was an improper act, when he 
knew you were a member of the Communist Party, to tell us that you 
were? 

Mr. Aptheker. I have already answered your question, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you think it was a dastardly act? You said 
to inform was a dastardly act. We had a witness under oath asked 
the question of whether or not you were a member of the Communist 
Party. He was bound to tell us the truth. He told us you were a 
member of the Communist Party. Would you consider that a das- 
tardly act ? Or do you think he should have committed perjury ? 



380 BTATE DEPARTMENT INFORJVIATION PROGRAM 

Mr. Aftheker. I thiiik that his whole career and performance and 
function and appearance are dastardly. 

The Chairman. Do you think it was a dastardly act for him to 
tell the truth about you ? 

Mr. Aj?theker. I have answered that question, sir. 

The Chairman. I did not hear you answer it. 

Mr. Aftheker. Of course, you liave also put into this the assump- 
tion of truth on the part of this person. 

The Chairman. Was he telling the truth when he said you were 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Aftheker. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
already stated. 

The Chairman. On the grounds that an answer might incriminate 
you? 

Mr. Aftheker. Might tend to. 

The Chairman. Senator Symington ? 

Senator Symington. Let us get back to this question of an informer. 
If you saw a man commit murder, would it be wrong to inform the 
police ? 

Mr. Aftheker. That is not an informer, sir. 

Senator Symington. You will not answer the questions, will you? 

Mr. Aftheker. I have answered the question. 

Senator Syisiington. The next question is: Suppose you were a 
member of the Nazi Party in this country, and you decided that you 
thought the Nazi regime was wrong. Do you think it would be wrong 
for you to inform the American Government about the Nazis ? 

Mr. Aftheker. That is also not an informer. 

Senator Syiviington. Well, what is your definition of "informer"? 
I asked you that, and you said it was what was in the encyclopedia. 

Mr. Aftheker. I said more than that, sir. The record can be read 
back. 

The Chairman. It is apparently when you inform on the Commu- 
nist Party. 

Mr. Aftheker. Are you answering the question, sir? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Senator Symington. Do you mind, Mr. Chairman, if I have an 
answer from the witness? 

Mr. Aftheker. It is not my answer. 

For example, to give you another instance of an informer, since you 
have asked : You have an underground railroad in the United States. 
This is in technical violation of the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850. 
Thousands of Negro and white people take their lives in their hands 
and assist slaves to flee. This was what this distinguished Senator 
called an undergroimd movement, I suppose. There were informers 
involved in that, creatures who hired themselves out and for $25 a 
head, as the obscene language of that time went, would turn in a 
fugitive slave. He was not informing on a Communist. That person 
is an informer. That is what I mean by "informer." 

The Chairman. Let us get down, then, to the man who informs 
upon his fellow members of the Communist conspiracy. 

Mr. Aftheker. We can't get down to that on common ground, sir. 
There is no conspiracy to which you refer. 

The Chairman. All right. Then let us say a man who informs 
on the activities of members of the Communist movement. Do you 
think he is committing a dastardly act ? 



STATE DEPARTMENT ESTFORMATION PROGRAM 381 

Mr, Aptiieker. Yes ; I think such an informer is 

The Chairman. You may step down. 

'Mr. Apihekf.r. May I luive an opportunity to read a brief state- 
ment to this committee ? 

The Chairman. You will have no opportunity to make any speeches 
to this committee, as long as you refuse to tell us whether you are 
engaged in the Communist conspiracy at this time. You can go out- 
side this committee room and make all the siDeeches you want. 

Mr. Aptheker. I have, sir, not a speech to make. I have got about 
250 words. I have been brought down here from some hundreds of 
miles. You mean I cannot read 250 words to this committee^ 

The Chairman. You cannot read them to this committee unless you 
answer whether you are a member of the Communist Party. 

Senator Jackson. When you make a statement to the committee, 
you ought to be willing to give your full background, so that the 
public will know just who is speaking. If you are a Communist, I 
suppose you are proud of it, and you ought to tell the American people 
you are speaking as a Communist. 

Mr. Aptheker. It is no question of pride. It is a question of 
informing. 

Senator Jackson. All right. Let me ask you one last question. 
You recall when the 8 or 9 Nazi spies were picked up on the New 
Jersey coast in 1942 or 1943 ? 

Mr. Aptheker. I have some recollection of some event like that. 

Senator Jackson. It is a fact that in order to have picked up those 
spies we had to have informers. You think that kind of informer 
was all right ? 

Mr. Aptheker. That is not an informer. 

Senator Jackson. That is not an informer? 

Mr. Aptheker. Of course not. That was a question of war. These 
were Nazis sent here for sabotage. I was in the Army then. I would 
have acted that way. This is not an informer. 

Senator Jackson. You say it is a question of war. Then what 
about Korea, where we have a very bad situation on our hands and 
we have people in this country engaged in sabotage and espionage to 
thwart that effort. 

Mr. Aptheker. Well, the assumption in what you say is erroneous. 

Senator Jackson. Wliat is erroneous? 

Mr. Aptheker. What you just said. 

Senator Jackson. What is erroneous about it ? 

Mr. Aptheker. What is erroneous about it? It is false. 

Senator Jackson. Just so we may have it clearly understood, then, 
I take it that members of the Communist Party do not engage in 
espionage or sabotage? 

Mr. Aptheker. Certainly, to the best of my knowledge. 

Senator Jackson. If that is the case, then why do they rely on 
their privilege against self-incrimination and refuse to answer, as 
the previous or the second previous witness refused to answer the 
question as to whether he is engaged in sabotage or espionage? 

]\Ir. Aptheker. I want to say that I am in no position to comment 
on the testimony of the previous witness. 

Senator Jackson. I am talking about Mr. Brand. 

Mr. Aptheker. Well, I don't have the other person in mind at all. 
He is out of my mind whatsoever. I am talknig about the human 



382 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

being who was up here. That is, Mr. Millen Brand. Now, when I 
am talking about him, I want to say that I can't comment, as such, 
on his testimony. He was up here and spoke. But you asked me 
in general on this, and my answer to j'our question is that it seems 
to me perfectly obvious why people do not answer such questions, 
such people. 

Senator Jackson. Well, he answered the question I put to him 
"whether he had engaged in larceny. And he said "No." But when I 
asked him whether he had engaged in espionage or sabotage 

Mr. Aptheker. There is nothing complex about that. One has po- 
litical overtones. There is an implication of gangsters in this 
country 

Senator Jackson. You mean espionage or sabotage is nothing more 
than political activity ? 

Mr. Aptheker. No ; I don't mean that. I mean it is used as a po- 
litical instrumentality, and that your question, or the question of who- 
ever put such a question, has such a quality, which is perfectly obvious. 

Senator Jackson. Larceny could become a political activity, then, 
too, along your same line. 

Mr. Aptheker. No. No ; that is not true. 

Senator Symington. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask him one 
more question. 

And I would appreciate your trying to answer this in good faith. 

Mr. Aptheker. I have done so throughout, sir. 

Senator Symington. If you were once a Communist, before it be- 
came obvious that they were a great menace to the American Govern- 
ment and its people, why are you not perfectly willing to say that 
you were? Why should you be ashamed or afraid to say that you are 
not? 

Mr. Aptheker. I am ashamed of nothing, sir. I don't know 
w^hether everybody in this room can say that. I say that I am ashamed 
of nothing, under oath. I have full pride in my activity. 

I must again respectfully say that your question is posited on such 
fallacious assumptions that it is impossible to answer it reasonably, 
since in your question you have provided the answer which you seek 
and which I deny. 

Senator Symington. No; I did not provide any answer. 

Mr. Aptheker. You certainly did, sir. 

Senator Symington. If we have a witness who comes up here under 
oath and says that he was a member of the Communist Party, why is 
it not a simple matter for you, inasmuch as we are fighting com- 
munism with all of our resources, to say, "Yes, I was a Communist 
once, but I am no longer," if you believe you are a good American 
citizen. 

Mr. Aptheker. Once again, the assumptions in your question are 
the answer that you want. 

Senator Symington. Then you tell me what I would like to ask you. 
Phrase the question as you would like me to ask it to you. 

Mr. Aptheker. Certainly. You want me to give what you think is 
information, names, circumstances, dates. 

Senator Symington. No. That is not fair. 

Senator Jackson. No one asked you the names of individuals. I 
asked you whether you were ever a member of the Communist Party. 



STATE DEPARTMENT INTORMATION PROGRAM 383 

Senator S'tiviington. And if you were, why you were not proud to 
say that you were now a good American and not a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Aptheker. Because such a question posits itself on the assump- 
tion that one who is a Communist cannot be a good American. 

Senator Sihviingtgn. I do not think so at all, if you have left the 
party. There is nothing illegal about being a member of the Commu- 
nist Party. And if you say you were a Communist, but now that you 
recognize the danger of communism to America, you are not, there is 
nothing wrong with that. Why cannot you not say that now ? 

Mr. Aptheker. Because that is exactly the assumption against 
which I am protesting. 

Senator Potter. What you are saying is that you can be a member 
of the Communist Party today and be a loyal American citizen? 

Mr. Aptheker. That is certainly my opinion. 

Senator Stihington. Oh, that is your opinion, that you can be a 
member of the Communist Party today and still be a good American. 

Mr. Aptheker. Certainly that is my opinion. 

Mr. CoHN. Dr. Aptheker, I want to ask you this : Do you teach at 
a Communist school at the present time ? 

Mr. Aptheker. I refuse to answer that question, on the grounds 
already stated. 

Mr. Cohn. Have you ever taught at any public university in New 
York ? Have you ever taught at any university or college ? 

The Chairman. Any school or college other than the Jefferson 
School ? 

Mr. Aptheker. One of the problems involved in that question is 
what you mean by "taught." I don't mean to be technical, but, for 
instance, if you want to know whether I have lectured in various in- 
stitutions of learning 

Mr. CoHN. I will take your word. Have you ever lectured? 

Mr. Aptheker. I have lectured in various universities. 

Mr. CoHN. Where? 

Mr. Aptheker. Practically all of the major universities. 

Mr. CoHN. Will you name them, some of them, for us? 

Mr. Aptheker. Just one minute, please. 

(Mr. Aptheker confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Aptheker. I have lectured at Columbia University. You 
understand, not as a member of the faculty. That is why I asked 
you that question. 

Mr. Cohn. Surely. 

Senator Potter. Was it sponsored by the faculty or by a student 
group ? 

Mr. Aptheker. I have lectured at Columbia, at Yale, at Harvard, 
at Brooklyn, at the University of Chicago, at the University of North 
Carolina, at Allen University, at dozens of universities. 

Mr. Cohn. Were you a member of the Communist Party when you 
delivered those lectures? 

Mr. Aptheker. And the University of Wisconsin. 

What is that? 

Mr. Cohn. Were you a member of the Communist Party when you 
delivered those lectures? 

Mr. Aptheker. It must be obvious, I think, that I refuse to answer 
such a question. 



384 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAIVI 

Mr. CoHN. I don't know whether it is obvious or not. Just refuse 
to answer the question. 

Mr. Aptheker. Still, you do know it is obvious, Mr. Cohn. 

Mr. Cohn. I am not interested in your characterizations. I am 
just interested in your answers to questions. Wlien you wrote these 
four books which were in use in the State Department information 
program, were you a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Aptheker. I will not answer that question. 

Mr. Cohn. You refuse to answer on the ground the question might 
tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Aptheker. Yes. Do vou have any interest in tlie books at 
all? 

Mr. Cohn. Yes, I have such an interest I would like to read from 
some of them now. 

JNIr. Aptheker. You have done the excerpting, Mr. Cohn? 

The Chairman. First, let me say the witness will be ordered to give 
us a list of the schools at which he has taught and lectured, under 
whose auspices he was brought to the various schools and universi- 
ties, and the dates, as nearly as he can supply them. 

You will be ordered to produce that. How much time would you 
want, to produce that. Dr. Aptheker? 

Mr. Aptheker. Actually, the production is impossible. Senator. 

The Chairman. Well, you will produce as complete a list as you 
can, and the names of the individuals who got you to come, and 
under whose sponsorship you spoke. 

JNIr. Aptheker. I can tell you now that that is impossible. I don't 
keep those things. 

The Chairman. You will be ordered to produce a list as complete 
as you can. I know it would be impossible to give us a complete list. 
You named some of them. I do not want to take the committee's 
time this morning. We have a number of other witnesses. It is 
getting late now. It is nearly 12 o'clock. You will be ordered to 
produce those. If jou do not produce them, I will ask the committee 
to find you in contempt of the committee. 

]\Ir. Aptheker. May I understand thoroughly what you want 
produced ? 

The Chairman. The list of all of the schools at which you taught 
or lectured, as nearly as you can give it; the time at which you taught 
or lectured in the various schools or colleges ; the name of the organ- 
ization or the individual under whose auspices you were brought to 
these various universities. And you will be ordered to produce that, 
and we will give you 1 week's time. That will be produced a week 
from today by 10 o'clock in the morning. 

Mr. Aptheker. Of course, Senator, I reserve the right to invoke 
the fifth amendment wherever necessary in such a list, the difficulty of 
which is enormous. 

The Chairman. We will not allow you to invoke the privilege 
insofar as giving us the names of the colleges at which you lectured, 
or the dates. If a Communist organization or Communists brought 
you to the various schools or universities, you will be entitled to invoke 
the privilege insofar as not telling us who brought you there. But we 
will not allow the privilege insofar as the dates you spoke there. It 
is a matter of public record, and you will be ordered to produce that 
material. If you do not, I repeat, I shall ask the committee to find 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 385 

you in contempt. The committee may or may not go along with me. 
I do not know. 

You may step down. 

Mr. CoHN. We would like Mr. Matusow back for a minute. 

I might say the staff is preparing excerpts from Mr. Aptheker's 
works which we would like to have inserted in the record to give a 
picture of the type of Communist propaganda. 

(The material referred to was marked as "Exhibit No. 35" and 
may be found in the appendix on p. 415.) 

The Chairt.iax. May I ask you to speed up your questioning of Mr. 
Matusow ? We have a number of witnesses yet. 

(To Mr. Aptheker.) Will you step aside '^ 

Mr. CoHN. Mr. Matusow, do you know a man by the name of Philip 
S. Foner, F-o-n-e-r? 

FURTHEE TESTIMONY OF HARVEY MATUSOW 

Mr. Matusow. I do. 

Mr. CoHN. Did you laiow him when you were in the Communist 
movement ? 

Mr. IVLvTUSow. I did. 

Mr. CoHN. Was Philip Foner a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. He was. 

Mr. CoHN. Was he a teacher at this same Communist school, the 
Jefferson School ? 

Mr. Matusow. He was. 

Mr. CoHx. And was he the author of books used in the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Matusow. He was. 

Mr. CoiiN. By the way, I notice some of his books are published by 
International Publishers. Do you know what International Pub- 
lishers is? 

Mr. Matusow. International Publishers is the official publishing 
house of the Communist Party. Its head is Alexander Trachtenberg, 
one of the 13 convicted Communist leaders who were convicted under 
the Smith Act recently. 

Mr. CoHN. Are you familiar with the book, The Jews and American 
History, by Philip S. Foner? 

Mr. Matusow. I am. 

Mr. CoHN. And that is the same Philip S. Foner you identified as 
a member of the Communist Party and a teacher at this Connnunist 
school ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is. 

Mr. CoiiN. Some 71 copies of that book have been in use in tlie State 
Department information program, as well as some copies of some other 
works by Mr. Foner, and I will now ask Mr. Matusow if he will 
step down, and we can have Mr. Foner come to the stand. 

The Chahoian. ]Mr. Foner? 

I note here from your memorandum, Mr. Cohn, that considerably 
over a hundred of Mr. Foner's books have been used in the Informa- 
tion Service. 

Mr. CoHN. That is correct, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Do I understand Mr. Dulles has ordered these also 
removed from the shelves? 

33616 — 53— pt. 6 5 



«^-/.c' MA' 



386 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAIVI 

Mr. CoHN. I would assume these are covered by his directive. 

The Chairman. May I ask you this, Mr. Cohn : I understood from 
the report you and Mr. Schine gave me upon your return from over- 
seas that the opinion of the librarians over there was tliat they were 
not required to remove books of Communist authors unless and until 
those authors' were called before this committee and either admitted 
they were Communists or refused to answer. 

Mr. CoHN, That was the opinion of some of the librarians, Mr. 
Chairman. That is absolutely correct. They felt that their only 
guide was the hearings of this committee, which they were following 
closely, and they asked that we call these people before the committee 
so that there would be a public record and public documentation on 
the basis of which they could act. 

The Chairman. May I say that it would be impossible for us to 
call all of the Communist authors whose works are being used in the 
libraries before this committee. I think we have some 250 either 
Communists or those who consistently followed the Communist line. 
I might suggest that we compile the list of the 250 who have been 
named under oath as Communists or are well known as Communists 
and supply that to the State Departmeiit at our earliest convenience, 
because we certainly cannot call all 250 before this committee. 

Will you stand up, Mr. Foner, and raise your right hand ? 

In this matter now in hearing before the committee, do you solemnly 
swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God? 

Mr. FoNER. I do. 

The Chairman. You are a professor as of today, are you? A 
teacher ? 

TESTIMONY OF PHILIP S. FONEPt, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

DAVID EEIN 

Mr. FoNER. I am a teacher; yes. 

The Chairman. Where do you teach ? 

Mr. FoNER. I refuse to answer, on the grounds of the privilege of 
the fifth amendment not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you teach in a Communist school, the Jefferson 
School of Social Science ? 

Mr. Foner. Same answer, sir. 

The Chairman. Have you taught or lectured in any schools or col- 
leges other than the Jefferson School of Social Science ? 

Mr. FoNER. I did teach at a public college in New York City. That 
is a matter of public record. 

The Chairman. The name of that ? 

Mr. FoNER. The College of the City of New York. 

The Chairman. The College of the City of New York. And in 
any other colleges or schools ? 

Mr. Foner. I taught at no other colleges. 

The Chair3ian. Did you lecture at any other colleges ? 

Mr. Foner. I have lectured at 1 or 2 other colleges. 

The Chairman. And the names of them ? 

Mr. Foner. At the University of Wisconsin and the University of 
California. 



STATE DEPARTAIENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 387 

The Chairman. When did you lecture at the University of Cali- 
fornia and the University of Wisconsin ? 

Mr. FoNER. At the University of Wisconsin, to the best of my knowl- 
edge — I might say -that in both cases it was not sponsored by the 
universities. 

The Chairman. Who was it sponsored by? 

Mr. FoNER. In the case of the University of Wisconsin, it was a 
summer school conducted by the Abraham Lincoln School of Chicago. 
It was not connected with the university. 

Tlie Chairman. In either your lectures at the University of Wiscon- 
sin or at the University of California, did Communists take any part 
in getting you there ? 

Mr. FoNER. I refuse to answer on the same grounds as before. 

The Chairman. We have a report from the State Department that 
the old State Department — we should distinguish between the two — 
purchased a sizable number of your books and distributed them in 
libraries throughout the world in this alleged fight against commu- 
nism. At the time you wrote those books, were you a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. FoNER. I refuse to answer, on the same grounds. And, in 
addition, may I say that I have a statement that I would like to read. 

The Chairman. You will make no speech to this committee. 

Mr. FoNER. It is not a speech, sir. It is a statement, a vei*y brief 
statement. 

The Chairman. You will answer whether a^ou are a member of the 
Communist Party; if you refuse to answer, we will hear no statement 
from you. We clo not need any lectures. 

Are you a iiiember of the Communist Party as of today? 

Mr. FoNER. I refuse to answer, on the grounds that the present 
atmosphere in this country, in which this committee 

The Chairman. You will be ordered to answer the question. 

You will, then, b-e ordered to answer the question. 

Mr. FoNER. I refuse to answer, on the grounds of the fifth-amend- 
ment privilege. 

The Chairman. You are entitled to refuse if you tell the committee 
that you honestly feel that a truthful answer as to whether you are 
a Communist today would tend to incriminate you. Is that your 
testimony, that you honestly feel that a truthful answer as to whether 
you are a member of the Communist Party might tend to incriminate 
you? 

Mr. FoNER. I stated before that the privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment permits me the right, under the Bill of Eights, not to bear wit- 
ness against myself. I have stated that position. 

The Chairman. You will answer the question as to whether you 
honestly feel that a truthful answer as to whether you are a member 
of the Communist Party today might tend to incriminate you. You 
are ordered to answer that question. 

Mr. FoNER. It might tend to incriminate me, if you put it that way. 

The Chaiiuvean. You say you honestly feel that a truthful answer 
might tend to incriminate you. 

Mr. FoNER. It might tend to incriminate me. 

The Chahiiman. You may step down. 

Mr. Cohn. The next witness is William Gropper, G-r-o-p-p-e-r. 



388 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORIMATION PROGRAM 

The Chairman. Mr. Gropper, will you raise your right hand? In 
this matter now in hearing before the committee, do you solemnly 
swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Gkopper. I do. 

The Chairman. I believe we failed to identify counsel last time. , 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM GROPPER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, DAVID REIN 

Mr. Rein. David Rein, R-e-i-n. 

The Chairman. Will you show, Mr. Reporter, that Mr. Rein also 
appeared for the last witness? 

Mr. Rein, I think today is the first time you have been before the 
committee. I assume you understand that your client can ask your 
advice at any time he cares to during the testimony. 

Mr. CoHN. Before this witness testifies, I would like to state that 
the witness is William Gropper, tliat he prepares maps, at least one 
of them entitled "America, Its Folk Lore, a Pictorial Map," having 
been in very wide use in the State Department information program. 
Some 1,744 copies have been purchased, according to our present esti- 
mate. They are distributed to some 100 information centers through- 
out the world. And the purchases of these maps have continued up 
through the end of the year 1952. 

Mr. Gropper, the first question is : Are you a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Gropper. I refuse to answer under my privilege of the fifth 
amendment, that I would bear witness against myself. 

The Chairman. The bell was ringing, and I did not get the question. 

Mr. Coiin. The question is : Mr. Gropper, are you a member of the 
Communist Party? 

The Chairman. As of today, that is ? 

Mr. CoHN. As of today. 

Mr. Gropper. I refuse to answer under the privilege granted me 
under the fifth amendment, on the grounds that I might bear witiness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. The answer might tend to incriminate you ; is that 
right ? 

Mr. Gropper. Yes. 
- Mr. CoHN. Are you the William Gropper who has prepared various 
ma-ps ? 

Mr. Gropper. I don't understand that question. Prepared various 
maps ? 

I\lr. CoHN. Did you prepare a map entitled "America, Its Folk- 
lore"' ? 

Mr. Gropper. Have j^ou got the map here ? 

Mr. CoHN. No ; I don't have the map here. Did you prepare a map 
entitled, "America, Its Folklore" ? 

Mr. Gropper, I painted a map on American folklore, yes. 

Mr. CoHN. You did paint a map on American folklore? 

Mr. Gropper. I did. 

Mr. CoHN. What year was that? 

Mr. Gropper. I don't remember. 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 389 

Mr. CoHN. Was that within the last 5 years ? 

Mr. Gropper. Probably. 

Mr. CoHN. And when you painted that map, were you a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Gropper. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment, the 
same grounds. 

The Chairman. May I ask you : How much income have you re- 
ceived from the United States Government over the past 5 years ? 

Mr. Gropper. Nothing. 

The Chairman. How about the purchase of the maps? I under- 
stand from counsel that the Department has reported — tnat how many 
thousand copies have been purchased? 

Mr. CoHN. 1,744: copies have been purchased. 

Mr. Gropper. I have no knowledge of receiving any money from 
the Government for a purchase of that map. 

Mr. CoHN. Have you been receiving royalties on the sale of that 
map? 

Mr. Gropper. No, sir. 

Mr. CoHX. You have not received any royalties at all ? 

Mr. Gropper. No, sir. 

Mr. CoHN. How were you compensated for that ? 

Mr. Gropper. I was paid by a publishing firm when I did it, in ad- 
vance, and no royalties came in. 

Mr. CoHN. Now, the money you received from that publishing firm 
for this map, did you give any of that money to the Communist 
Party? Did you contribute any of that money to the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Gropper. I refuse to answer, on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

The Chairman. Senator Symington has a question. 

Senator Symington. I am sorry. I have to leave. We just had a 
quorum call. I wanted to ask this : One of the previous witnesses said 
that despite conditions in the world as they are today, he still felt 
that you could be a member of the Communist Party and at the same 
time be a good, loyal American. Do you agree to that ? 

Mr. Gropper. You see, I am an artist. I am primarily an artist. 
I am not in with this political business that you people are all involved 
in. I would rather talk on my field, where I am equipped. I don't 
understand those things. 

Senator Jackson. If you are an artist, have you engaged in espio- 
nage or sabotage? 

Mr. Gropper. No. 

Senator Jackson. You never have? 

Mr. Gropper. No. 

The Chairman. Mr. Gropper, if you are not a member of the Com- 
munist Party today, you can very easily tell us that. 

May I say that I realize that people in your field, writers, authors, 
and I assume even mapmakers, have had difficulty over the past num- 
ber of years getting their works reviewed by the publications whose 
views, to a great extent, determine the sale of your books and works. 
I realize that some authors and writers may have reluctantly joined 
the Communist movement and followed the party line in order to 
get favorable reviews of their books. But the climate, fortunately, 



390 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

lias changed a bit, and we do see the authors not following the Com- 
munist lines getting reviews in some of our better papers now. I 
should not say some of the better papers ; some of the larger papers. 

It would seem that if you are one of those who joined the movement 
in order to get your stuff on the market, you could tell us about it. 
It would just seem the honest American thing to do. Certainly at this 
date any normal person realizes that the Communist movement en- 
dangers this world. He knows that our young men are being killed 
every day because of the Communist grasp for world control. 

Mr. Gropper. But, Senator, I do not think you understand. I do 
not write books. I am not an author. I don't even make maps. I 
am a painter. 

The Chairman. But when you draw folklore maps, that is to a 
certain extent being an author. You are authoring the map. 

Mr. Gropper. No, sir. 

The Chairman. xVll right. Then let us get back to the question. 
Have you prepared written guides for mapmaking? 

Mr. Gropper. No, sir. 

The Chairman. You say you will not tell us whether you are a 
Communist as of today, on the ground that if you told us the truth 
that answer might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Gropper. Yes. 

The Chairman. Before someone in the Information Service pur- 
chased your maps, did you contact any Communist in that Service 
and solicit them to have your maps purchased? 

Mr. Gropper. This is very strange to me. 

The Chairman. Well, you can just answer "Yes"' or "No." You 
either did or did not. 

Mr. Gropper. I have nothing to do with the sale of maps. I don't 
know anything about the publishing. 

The Chairman. What royalty do you get per map ? 

Mr. Gropper. I don't know. I haven't received any. 

The Chairman. What did you get from the publishing firm for 
this particular map mentioned by Mr. Cohn? 

Mr. Gropper. I don't remember. 

Mr. CoHN. Approximately how much. 

Mr. Gropper. I really don't — I think I might have gotten $500. 
But it was a long time ago. 

The Chairman. Did 5^ou give any of that money to the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Gropper. Oh, I have refused to answer that. 

The Chairman. On the grounds that it might tend to incriminale 
you? 

Mr. Gropper. Of course. 

The Chairman. You say "of course." 

Mr. Gropper. On the grounds that it might incriminate me, to use 
the terminology. 

The Chairman. Do you know any Communists in Government? 

Mr. Gropper. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

The Chairman. Do you have any relatives working in Government? 

Mr. Gropper. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

The Chairman. You will be ordered to answer that question. It 
cannot incriminate you if you have relatives working in the Govern- 
ment. 



STATE DEPARTMENT ESTFORIVIATION PROGRAM 391 

Mr. Gropper. No. 

The Chairman. You have no relatives working in Government ? 

Mr. Gropper. No, sir. 

The Chairman. In any of the agencies? 

Mr. Gropper. No, sir. 

The Chairman. How many brothers do you have? 

Mr. Gropper. One. 

The Chairman. And what is his first name ? 

Mr. Gropper. SoL 

The Chairm\n. 'Where is he working? 

Mr. Gropper. I don't know. I haven't seen him in a long time. 

The Chairman. Do you know whether he is working in Govern- 
ment ? 

Mr. Gropper. I don't think so. 

The Chairman. But you do not know where he is working? 

Mr. Gropper. He lives in New York ; has lived in New York all his 
life. 

The Chairisian. But you do not know where he is working ? 

Mr. Gropper. I don't. No. 

The Chairman. You do not know if he is working in the Govern- 
ment ? 

Mr. Gropper. No; I don't. 

The Chmr^man. How about your other relatives, close relatives? 
Do you know where they are working? 

Mr. Gropper. No. 

The Chairman. You do not know where they are working? 

Mr. Gropper. No. 

The Chairman. Have you ever worked for the Government 
yourself ? 

Mr. Gropper. I did a mural for the new Interior Building. 

The Chairman. A mural for the new Interior Building? 

Mr. Gropper. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And were you under orders of the Communist 
Party at the time you made that mural ? 

Mr. Gropper. I refuse to answer, on the grounds of incriminat- 
ing me. 

The Chairman. How much were you paid for that mural ? 

Mr. Gropper. I really don't remember. It is hard for me to remem- 
ber that. 

Mr. CoHN. Approximately how much? 

Mr. Gropper. It might have been $4,000, or $5,000. 

Mr. CoHN. Four or five thousands dollars. Did any of that money 
go to the Communist Party? 

Mr. Gropper. I refuse to answer on the gromids of incrimination. 

The Chairman. Who arranged to have you paint that mural? 

Mr. Gropper. That was a contract given to me by the Section of 
Fine Arts. 

The Chairman. By the what? 

Mr. Gropper. The Section of Fine Arts. 

Mr. CoHN. Of the Department of Interior? 

Mr. Gropper. I think so. I don't remember. There was a Section 
of Fine Arts. 

The Chairman. Did those who hired you know you were a member 
of the Communist Party at that time, if you know? 



392 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

Mr. Gropper. I refuse to answer on the grounds. 

The Chairman. You refuse to answer? 

Mr. Gropper. On the grounds. 

The Chairman. Who is the man who contacted you, who hired you 
for that job ? What is the name of the man ? 

Mr. Gropper. It is hard to remember. It is very difficult to remem- 
ber names, for me. I don't really remember. 

The Chairman. You don't remember who contacted you? 

Mr. Gropper. There was one in charge, and I think his name was 
Bruce, Edward Bruce. 

The Chairman. And this was how long ago? 

Mr. Gropper. Oh, 1937 or 1936. 

The Chairman. Have you ever worked for the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Gropper. I refuse to answer on the grounds that it might in- 
criminate me. 

The Chairman. Were you working for the Daily Worker at the 
time the Interior Department hired you to do this mural ? 

Mr. Gropper. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

The Chairman. I think you will be ordered to answer that. That 
is a matter of public record whether you were or not. You will be 
ordered to answer whether you were working for the Daily Worker at 
that time. 

Let us see. Just a minute. I believe, on second thought, in view 
of the fact that it is public sworn record that only Communists could 
work for the Daily Worker, you cannot be ordered to answer that ques- 
tion. You will not be ordered to answer it. 

You drew a rather celebrated painting of the United States Senate 
at one time. Were you under orders of the Communist Party at the 
time you made that painting? 

Mr. Gropper. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

The Chairman. You may step down. 

Mr. CoHN. Is Mr. Matusow in the room ? 

Would you come back to the stand for just a minute, please? 

Mr. Matusow, you heard the testimony of the last witness, Mr. Wil- 
liam Gropper ? 

FURTHEE TESTIMONY OF HARVEY MATUSOW 

Mr. Matusow. The latter part of it. 

Mr. CoHN. When you were in the Communist movement, were you 
familiar with the activities of Mr. Gropper? 

Mr. Matusow. I heard of his name, yes ; in relation to Communist 
activities. 

Mr. CoHN. Did you ever see any of his work? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. CoHN. And in what connection did you see his work? 

Mr. Matusow. We sold a book of Gropper cartoons at the Jefferson 
School, cartoons from the Daily Worker, and I have seen copies of his 
work in the Daily Worker. 

Mr. CoHN. Was Mr. Gropper a political cartoonist for the Daily 
Worker ? 

Mr. Matusow. He was. 

Mr. CoHN. I see. 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 393 

The Chairman. Do you know whether he was a political cartoonist 
for the Daily Worker, Mr. Matusow, at the time he was hired to do 
this work for the Department of Interior? Or would you know that? 

Mr. Matusow. I am not familiar with those dates, no. 

Mr. CoHN-. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Mr. Matusow, I want to thank you for coming here. 
Let me ask you this question : I assume, having been in the Com- 
munist movement for some 4 years in New York, and having been 
in a Communist bookstore, you have a fairly good knowledge of the 
Communist writers in the city of New York ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do, sir. 

The Chairman. Would you say you have knowlege of some of the 
Communists that have infiltrated some of the newspapers and maga- 
zines in that area ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do. I was a member of the American Newspaj)er 
Guild while in the Communist Party. It is an anti-Communist 
union, but there are Communists in it. 

The Chairman. I would like to have you, if you will, supply us in 
executive session with the names of all the Communists, those known 
to you as Communists, who have infiltrated the various news media, 
whether it is radio, newspapers, television. I know that will be quite 
a monumental task, so we will not set any definite date, but you can 
get that for us at your convenience. 

Mr. Matusow. I will discuss that with Mr. Cohn after the session. 

The Chairman. I think that is all. 

May I say that this winds up the phase of our investigation having 
to do with Communist writers whose works were purchased by the 
former State Department under Mr. Acheson. 

We have been, of course, unable to call all of the Communist authors, 
all of those that have a record of communism. We have tried to call 
a general cross section, so that we would have the typical authors' 
works in the record. 

If I may ask you, Mr. Cohn : Roughly, how many thousands of books 
by Communist authors were purchased by the information program ? 

Mr. Cohn. We are trying to compile an exact figure. It does go 
into many thousands, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. You do not know the exact figure? 

Mr. Cohn. We don't know the exact figure and wouldn't want to 
commit ourselves until we have the exact figure. 

The Chairman. Mr. Buckley, you have been working on this also. 
Do I understand that you have been working with the Un-American 
Activities Committee and the various Intelligence agencies and you 
have a list of somes 250 individuals who have been identified under 
oath as Communists or identified with Communists, authors who have 
had works in the Information Service libraries? 

Mr. Buckley. At least 250, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Can you give us any idea of the number of volumes 
that have been used ? 

Mr. Buckley. I would say 30,000 to 40,000, and perhaps more, but 
that would be the minimum. 

The Chairman. And you are working now with the Department 
to try and get the complete listing ? 

Mr. Buckley. That is correct, Senator, yes. 



394 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

The Chairman. May I say also that we have asked the information 
program officials to try to get the names of the individuals who are 
responsible for purchasing these books. We have had some of the 
old Acheson team before us in executive session and otherwise. So 
far their memories have been extremely bad. None of them have 
been able to tell us who purchased the works of these 250 Communists 
or fellow travelers. It may take some time to run that down. I had 
been hoping that someone on the Acheson team would come forth and 
volunteer an explanation of why they spent all of this money on the 
works of well known Communist authors. They have not done that 
up to this time. We may and in fact we undoubtedly shall, after we 
run this matter down a bit more, call some of them before the com- 
mittee and see what explanation they have. 

Other than that : When is our next meeting ? 

Mr. CoHN. We have not set a firm date, Mr. Chairman, but there 
will be an announcement of that very shortly. 

The Chairman. We have several movies put out by the information 
program, one by the U. N. information program. I think we should 
arrange for a showing of that, if possible, to the Senators and the 
Congressmen. Perhaps we could do that in this room in the next 
couple of days. 

Mr. CoHN. Very well, Mr. Chairman, 

The Chairman. It is a movie that is being distributed throughout 
Europe, allegedly to depict American life, and it is, I think, the most 
anti-American propaganda I have seen. 

Would you not say so? 

Mr. CoHN. I think there is no doubt about it. 

The Chairman. We will make that showing available to the press 
also, if they care to attend. 

We will adjourn until there is a further announcement. 

(Whereupon, at 12 : 25 p. m. Wednesday, May 6, 1953, the hearing 
was recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.) 



STATE DEPAETMENT INFOKMATION PKOGRAM— 
mrOMATION CENTERS 



THURSDAY, MAY 14, 1953 

United States Senate, 
Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations 

OF THE Committee on Government Operations, 

Washington^ D. C. 

The subcommittee met (pursuant to S. Res. 40, agi-eed to January 
30, 1953) at 10:30 a. m., in room 318, Senate Office Buildingr, Senator 
Joseph R. McCarthy (chairman) presiding. 

Present: Senators Joseph R. McCarthy, Republican, Wisconsin, 
and Stuart Symington, Democrat, Missouri. 

Present also: Roy Cohn, chief counsel; Daniel G. Buckley, assist- 
ant counsel; Ruth Young Watt, chief clerk; Mario Noto, Chairman, 
Subversive Aliens Branch, Investigations Division, Immigration and 
Naturalization Service, 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

Counsel ? 

Mr. Cohn. Mr. James Aronson. 

The Chairman. You have already been sworn, Mr. Aronson. You 
are just reminded that your oath is still in effect. 

TESTIMONY OF JAMES AEONSON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL. 

NATHAN DAMBROIT 

Mr. Aronson. May I ask whether these lights are necessary. 
Senator ? 

The Chairman. If they bother you, they will be turned off. 

Mr. Aronson. With full respect to the working press and their 
desire to cover the meeting, I still think tliey are disconcerting. 

The Chairman. If they are disconcerting, they will be turned off. 
And there will be no flash pictures during the testimony. 

Mr. Cohn. Mr. Aronson, would you give us your full name, please? 

Mr. Aronson. Allan James Aronson. 

Mr. Cohn. Is that A-r-o-n-s-o-n I 

Mr. Aronson. Correct. 

Mr. CoiiN. Mr. Aronson, did there como a time in 1045 when you 
became an official of the United States Government? 

Mr. Aronson. I was employed by the Office of War Information 
and later by the War Department in Germany. 

Mr. Cohn. While you were in Germany — were vou in Germany 
from July of 1945 until the middle of 1946 ? 

Mr. Aronson. Until the middle of March 1946 ; yes. 

395 



396 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

Mr. CoHN. Until the middle of March 1946. And did you oc- 
cupy a position as press-control officer ? 

Mr. Aronson. I did. 

Mr. CoHN. And were part of your duties those of making rec- 
ommendations concerning which newspapers in Germany should be 
licensed and allowed to come into existence ? 

Mr. Aronson. Well, that is not quite accurate. 

Mr. CoHN. You correct me, then. 

Mr. Aronson. Yes, I will. My job was as a survey and reports 
press-control officer attached to headquarters, and it was my function 
to make reports on slates of Germans who were chosen as licensees 
for German newspapers. I had no exact connection witli the find- 
ings of these people, who were chosen by teams of press-control officers 
and Army Intelligence units. 

Mr. CoHN. Now, let's see if I understand this correctly. 

After the war in Germany, there weren 't newspapers ; for a news- 
paper to come into existence, it was up to us to decide whether or not 
it should be licensed, to decide which people we should license, so 
that they could establish a newspaper, and then we would furnish 
them with plants and equipment and so on. You were press-control 
officer. 

Mr. Aronson. I was a press-control officer. 

Mr. CoiiN. Yes. And your duty was to make surveys, go over 
and talk to these people, make surveys, and then make recommenda- 
tions as to whether or not they were suitable licensees? 

Mr. Aronson. Well, the people were chosen, as I say, by these teams, 
and at times I did not even interview the men. 

Mr. CoHN. At times did you interview the men ? 

Mr. Aronson. At times I did interview the men after they had 
been selected. 

Mr. CoHN. Did you ever make a recommendation as to which men 
or paper should be licensed ? 

Mr. Aronson. I made recommendations as to whether the men who 
had been chosen fitted into the directives which were given to us over 
the signature of General Eisenhower. 

Mr. CoHN. Well, over the signature of General Eisenhower. Gen- 
eral Eisenhower was overall commander at that time. Is that right? 

Mr. Aronson. Yes. They were directives which were issued by 
SHAEF. 

Mr. CoHN. Actually, General McClure was the one in charge; is 
that right. 

Mr. Aronson. He was chief of the Information Control Division, 
United States Army, which was the direct supervisory body. 
I The Chairman. Let us have the record clear. General Eisen- 
hower had nothing to do with selecting you as a press-control officer. 
You never met him. Is that not true ? 

Mr. Aronson. That is true. 

The Chairman. I just wanted to make that clear in the record, 
that General Eisenhower had nothing to do with selecting you as a 
press control officer and that in fact you had never met him. 

Mr. CoHN. Mr. Aronson, as to how many newspapers did you make 
recommendations concerning which people should be licensed ? 

Mr. Aronson. I would say about 4 or perhaps 5. 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 397 

Mr. CoHN. Were your recommendations followed in all cases? 

Mr. Aronson. Well, as I say, I reported on what people fitted into 
the general category of the directives, which was that they had to 
have a record of anti-Nazi activity, had nothing to do with^he Nazi 
press. 

Mr. CoHN. I don't think you got my question. 

The question was : Were your recommendations followed in all four 
cases? 
• . Mr. Aronson". Well, in general 

The CiiAiRiSiAX. Were your recommendations followed? 

Mr. CoHN. We have the picture from you as to your duties. 

Mr. Aronson. I would like to tell you as exactly as possible. And 
actually my orders were handed over to my superiors, and in general 
the boards which were ultimately approved were approved by General 
McClure. 

The Chairman. You said you recommended favorably in four 
cases ? 

Mr. Aronson. Yes. 

The Chairman. Were the licenses granted after you so recom- 
mended ? 

Mr. Aronson. The licenses were. 

The Chairman. And, unless those licenses were granted, the news- 
papers could not have operated ? 

Mr. Aronson. That is correct, sir. 

Tlie Chairman. Were you a member of the Communist Party at 
that time ? 

Mr. Aronson. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. You decline to answer on the ground that if you 
tell us the truth it might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Aronson. I must decline to answer that question also, sir. 

The Chairman. You will be ordered to answer that question. 

(Mr. Dambroff confers with Mr. Aronson.) 

Mr. Aronson. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds 
that the answer I might give might tend to incriminate me under 
the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. You will be ordered to answer the question. You 
still decline. I will ask the committee to cite you for contenipt. So 
that there is no misunderstanding as to the question, the question was, 
Are you refusing to answer whether you were a Communist at the 
time specified on the gi'ound that if you were to tell us the truth 
that might tend to incriminate you ? 

For the benefit of counsel, a witness cannot refuse to testify if he 
feels that perjury might incriminate him. It is only if he feels that 
a truthful answ^er might incriminate him that he is allowed to decline. 

I may say that you are ordered to answer, and if you do not I will 
take it up with the committee and will recommend that you be cited 
for contempt. 

Mr. Dambroff. Will the Senator please hold that a minute while I 
discuss this matter with him? 

The Chairman. I would be glad to. 

(Mr. Dambroff confers w^ith Mr. Aronson.) 

Mr. Aronson. Senator, any answer to any question you ask me here 
today will be tlie truth. 



398 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

The Chairman. You may finish, sir. 

Mr. Aronson. Will you give me the question again? 

The Chairman. The question is; Do you feel that, if you told the 
truth as to whether you were a Communist at the time in question, a 
truthful answer might tend to incriminate you? 

Mr. Aronson. The answer to that is "Yes." 

The Chairman. Then you ai^ emtitled to the privilege. 

Are you a member of the Communist Party as of today ? 

Mr. Aronson. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

The Chairman. On the ground that if you were to tell us the truth 
that might tend to incriminate you? 

Mr. Aronson. The answer is "Yes." 

The Chairman. Are you writing now under the direction of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Aronson. The answer is "No." 

The Chairman. Are you writing on a Communist-controlled publi- 
cation at this time ? 

Mr. Aronson. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

The Chairman. Is it true that the editors of one of the papers that 
you recommended for a license was a member of the Communist Party 
at the time you recommended that paper for a license ? 

Mr. Aronson. A member of one of the board of licensees which I 
surveyed and submitted a favorable recommendation on was a Com- 
munist. He was known to be a Communist by my superiors and by 
military government. 

The Chairman. Is he still the editor of that paper? 

Mr. Aronson. He is not. 

The Chairman. He is not, you say? 

Mr. Aronson. At least one of them is not. 

I am sorry. I had nothing to do with this particular paper. The 
one paper in which I did submit a report had a Communist in the 
board of licensees, I believe there were seven. And, as far as I know, 
this man is no longer a member of the board of licensees. 

The Chairman. Is it correct that the editor of one of the papers 
that were licensed was at that time a member of the Communist Party 
and is still the editor of 'the paper? 

Mr. Aronson. That is true. I had nothing to do with that particu- 
lar paper, however. 

The Chairman. What paper is that, and what is the name of the 
editor ? 

Mr. Aronson. The paper is the Frankfurter Rundschau, and the 
editor's name is Arno Rudert, R-u-d-e-r-t. He was a Communist at 
the time. Whether he still is, I have no way of knowino;. 

The Chairman. And he is still the editor of the paper ? 

Mr. Aronson. Yes. I believe his title is copublisher. 

The Chairman. Mr. Counsel, can you tell us how much that paper 
has been subsidized by our Information Service? 

Mr. CoHN. I think, Mr. Chairman, that that is the most heavily 
subsidized of any newspaper. It is subsidized to the tune at the mo- 
ment of 1,600,000 marks, which is about $400,000. 

The Chairman. And that information has been verified from the 
State Department, has it not? 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 399 

Mr. CoHN. Yes, it has, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. You may proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. CoHN. Now, Mr. Aronson, you were hired by OWI in July of 
1945? 

Mr. Aronson. I believe it was May of 1945. 

Mr. CoiiN. May of 1945. Did you receive a security clearance? 

Mr. Aronson. I did. 

Mr. CoHN. At the time you received a security clearance from OWI, 
were you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Aronson, I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Who hired you in the OWI ? 

Mr. Aronson. The man through whom I applied for the job was 
a man named James Clark. I don't know whether his was the ulti- 
mate decision. 

Mr. CoHN. Wlien did you leave Germany? When did you leave 
your position as a press-control officer? 

Mr. Aronson. I left in early March or middle March of 1946. 

Mr. CoHN. Did you leave voluntarily, or under charges, or what? 

Mr. Aronson. I left voluntarily. 

Mr. CoHN. You resigned voluntarily? 

Mr. Aronson. Yes. 

Mr. CoHN. "VVliere did you go to work after that? 

Mr. Aronson. I returned to the job I had on the New York Post, 
from which I was on leave of absence. 

The Chairman. On the what? 

Mr. Aronson. On the New York Post, sir. 

Mr. CoHN. When you were working for the New York Post, were 
you a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Aronson. I decline to answer that question, on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Where did you go after you left the New York Post? 

Mr. Aronson. I went to work for the New York Times. 

Mr. CoHN. And when did you go to work for the New York Times ? 

Mr. Aronson. The fall of 1946. 

Mr. CoHN. And how long did you remain with the New York 
Times? 

Mr. Aronson. I remained with the New York Times until the 
spring of 1948. 

Mr. CoHN. Wliat position did you hold with the New York Times? 
Where did you work there ? 

Mr. Aronson. I worked for the Sunday Times and I wrote for the 
News of the Week in Eeview. 

Mr. CoHN. Wliile you were writing for the News of the Week in 
Review of the New York Times, were you a member of the Commu- 
nist Party ? 

Mr. Aronson. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Wliere did you go when you left the New York Times? 

Mr. Aronson. I continued to be a newspaperman. 

Mr. CoHN. With what publication? 

Mr. Aronson. I decline to answer that question, on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Was it a Communist publication ? 



400 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

Mr. Aronson. I decline to answer that question, on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Wliere do you work today ? 

Mr. Aeonson. I decline to answer that question, also on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. CoHN. You work for the National Guardian today, do you 
not? 

Mr. Aeonson. I decline to answer that question, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. CoHN. Did you speak at a Communist rally within the last 
month and say that you were the one responsible for helping license 
what you described as democratic papers in Germany, and that this 
committee and the State Department are now attempting to make 
those papers reactionary ? 

Mr. Aronson. I decline to answer that question, on the same 
grounds, Counsel. 

Mr. CoHN. Did you read an account in the Daily Worker of such 
a meeting at which you spoke ? 

Mr. Aronson. I decline to answer that question, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. CoHN. Mr. Chairman, I might state that we have sent for such 
an account, which I have read, and I believe showed to you, from the 
Daily Worker, and when it arrives I will ask permission to insert that 
in the record. 

I wanted to ask the witness if he could name all four of the news- 
papers concerning which he made favorable recommendations for 
licenses. 

You have given us the Frankfurter Rundschau. 

Mr. Aronson. I had nothing to do with the Frankfurter Rund- 
schau. That was the paper I specifically said I did not 

Mr. CoHN. That is the paper that had the Communist editor? 

Mr. Aronson. He was a Communist at the time the paper was li- 
censed. Whether he is now, I do not know. 

Mr. CoHN. Concerning what papers did you make favorable rec- 
ommendations? 

Mr. Aronson. There is the Hessische Nachrichten, H-e-s-s-i-s-c-h-e 
N-a-c-h-r-i-c-h-t-e-n. 

Mr. CoHN. Yes. Wliat else? 

Mr. Aronson. The Rhein-Neckar-Zeitung, R-h-e-i-n-N-e-c-k-a-r- 
Z-e-i-t-u-n-g. 

Mr. CoHN. Were there any Communists on the Rhein-Neckar- 
Zeitung when you recommended that it be licensed ? 

Mr. Aronson. There was a panel of three, including the man who is 
now the president of the German Republic, Theodore Heuss. 

Mr. CoHN. He was 1 of the 3 ? 

Mr. Aronson. He was 1 of the 3. 

Mr. CoHN. How about the other two? 

Mr. Aronson. One was a Communist. 

Mr. CoHN. What was his name ? 

Mr. Aronson. His name was, I believe, Rudolf Agricola, R-u-d-o-l-f 
A-g-r-i-c-o-l-a. 

Mr. CoHN. Is he still with that paper, do you know ? 

Mr. Aronson. I do not know. I doubt it. 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 401 

Mr. CoHN. What is the next paper ? 

Mr. Aronson. The next paper is the Wiesbadener Kurier, 
W-i-e-s-b-a-d-e-n-e-r K-u-r-i-e-r. 

I should like to state for the record, Counsel, that the directives 
under which we work had no specific reference at all to the question 
of hiring of Communists. The only restriction was that no member 
of the Nazi Party or no German who had ever had anything to do 
with Nazi publications was to be hired. 

Mr. CoHN. I understand that. There was no express prohibition 
against the hiring of Communists. Who would be licensed or who 
wouldn't be was a matter of discretion for you and your superiors to 
whom you recommended. 

Mr. Aeonson. The ultimate decision, as I said, was that of General 
McClure. 

Mr. CoHN. Yes. 

Senator Symington. If you refused to answer whether you are or 
are not a Communist, it would not make much difference to you 
whether there are Communists on that paper or not, would it, or any 
other paper? 

Mr. Aronson. Senator, I was following directives, and my opinion 
was not of value at the time. 

Senator Symington. But it would not make any difference anyway, 
would it? 

Mr. Aronson. I must decline to answer that question, Senator. 

The Chairman. You say you were following directives. Did you 
ever receive a directive to license papers or recommend the licensing 
of papers upon which there was a Communist editorial board? 

Mr. Aronson. No, sir. I don't believe I did. 

The Chairman. So that when you recommended the licensing of a 
paper that had Communists on the editorial board, you were follow- 
ing no directive at that time, were you, unless it were a directive of 
the Communist Party? 

Mr. Aronson. Yes, there were no party papers permitted. The 
policy was to set up supraparty papers, composed of members of var- 
ious political parties of all philosophies, or of no party at all. 

The Chairman. Before you recommended a paper for licensing, 
did you discuss the matter with other members of the Communist 
Party? Strike the word "other." Members of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Aronson. No, sir ; I did not. 

The Chairman. You never discussed the matter with any members 
of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Aronson. No, sir ; I did not, to the best of my knowledge. 

The Chairman. Did you know Mr. Belfrage? 

Mr. Aronson. Yes, sir ; I did. 

The Chairman. Was Mr. Belfrage a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Aronson. I must decline to answer that question, sir. 

The Chairman. On the ground that it might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Aronson. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you ever discuss the licensing of papers with 
Mr. Belfrage? 

Mr. Aronson. We worked together on only one newspaper. That 
Avas when I first arrived in Germany. I was sent up to Bremen to 



402 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

observe the process of how applicants for license were questioned and 
screened. And I had no official function except as an observer. At 
that particular time, the paper that was licensed was the Weser Kurier, 
"WT-e-s-e-r K-u-r-i-e-r. And there were, among the applicants, mem- 
bers of various political parties. 

The Chairman. Will you try and answer my question ? 

Mr. Aronson. I am sorry. Would you repeat the question ? 

The Chairman. The question is : Did you discuss the licensing of 
any paper with Mr. Belf rage ? 

Mr. Aronson. Just this one, sir. 

The Chairman. You just got through telling us under oath that 
you never discussed the licensing of any paper with a member of the 
Communist Party. Do you want to change that testimony for your 
protection now, or not ? 

Mr. Aronson. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Your testimony is that you never discussed the 
licensing of any paper with a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Aronson. To the best of my knowledge, sir. 

The Chairman. You did discuss the licensing with Mr. Belf rage? 

Mr. Aronson. Rather, he discussed it with me, because I was an 
observer. 

The Chairman. Well, do you distinguish between a Communist dis- 
cussing a matter with you, and your discussing it with him? 

Mr. Aronson. Well, excuse me, sir. May I consult counsel on that ? 

The Chairman. You may. 

(Mr. Aronson confers with Mr. Dambroff.) 

Mr. Aronson. I would like to answer that question this way, Sena- 
tor McCarthy. At that time I was new in Germany, and I knew 
nothing about the operation exactly, and while I had discussions with 
Mr. Belfrage on the processing, on the actual process of licensing, I 
did not discuss with him tlie question of the licensing of this paper. 

The Chairman. Did you ever discuss with any Communist, or did 
any Communist ever discuss with you, the licensing of the papers or 
any of the circumstances surrounding the licensing of those papers ? 

Mr. Aronson. The only discussions I had on questions of licensing 
with Communists were those who were known Communists, who had 
already been selected, that is, as members of a board of licensees. 

The Chairman. Wlien you say "known Communists," do you mean 
known to you as Communists? 

Mr. Aronson. Well, in their applications for the position as li- 
censees, they had to state that they were Communists. 

The Chairman. And it is your testimony that, aside from the ap- 
plicants for license, you never discussed this matter of licensing papers 
with any Communists? 

Mr. Aronson. To the best of my knowledge, I did not, sir. 

The Chairman. And you say that you knew Mr. Belfrage was a 
Communist? 

Mr. Aronson. I had no such knowledge whether Mr. Belfrage was 
or was not a Communist. 

The Chairman. You did not know whether he was a Communist 
or not? 

Mr. Aronson. I did not. 

The Chairman. Do you know now whether he was a Communist at 
that time ? 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 430 

Mr. Aeonson. I must decline to answer that question, sir, on the 
grounds of the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. When did you learn Mr. Belfrage was a Com- 
munist ? 

Mr. Aronson. I must decline to answer that question also, sir. 

The Chairjnian. Was Mr. Belfrage also one of the press officers? 

Mr. Aronson. He was a press control officer. 

The Chairman. He was a press control officer, too ? 

Mr. Aronson. Yes. 

The Chairman. And he also had something to do with the licensing 
of papers ? 

Mr. Aronson. He did, sir. 

The Chairman. In fact, his job was almost identical to yours? 

Mr. Aronson. Well, there were certain similarities. He was not 
attached to headquarters. He was on one of the field teams, which 
helped to select licensees for various papers. 

The Chairman. Aside from Mr. Belfrage, did you then or do you 
now know of any of the press control officers who were Communists? 

Mr. Aronson. To the best of my knowledge, I do not, sir. 

The Chairman. It is your testimony that neitlier at the time you 
were press control officer nor at this time do you know of any other 
press control officers, aside from Mr. Belfrage, who were members of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Aronson. Well, as I said before, I had no knowledge as to Mr. 
Belfrage's political affiliations. 

The Chairman. Let us forget about Mr. Belfrage. I am asking 
you about any other individuals. 

Mr, Aronson. I do not know, sir. To the best of my knowledge, 
I did not know, nor do I know now. 

The Chairman. Pardon me. Senator Symington, I think you had 
some questions ? 

Senator Symington. I think you covered, Mr. Chairman, what I 
was going to ask. 

I asked this witness yesterday in executive session if he thought he 
was a good American, and he said he did. 

I would like to ask you again : How can you be a good American 
and be afraid or ashamed to come before this committee and tell them 
whether or not you are a member of the Communist Party today ? 

Mr. Aronson. I must decline to answer that question, respectfully, 
sir. 

Senator Symington. Do you think the Korean war is the fault of 
the United States or the fault of Soviet Russia ? 

Mr. Aronson. I must decline to answer that question also, sir. 

Senator Symington. Well, the presumption, if you would not an- 
swer that question, is that you believe it is the fault of the United 
States, is it not? 

Mr. Aronson. No, sir ; I don't think tliat is the assumption. 

Senator Syiniington. Then if you are a member of the Communist 
Party, you would be afraid to say in public that it was the fault of 
Soviet Russia, would you not? 

Mr. Aronson. I must decline to answer that question, sir. 

Senator Symington. Well, I can understand that. Is this the first 
time in a public hearing anybody has ever asked you whether or not 
you were a Communist? 



404 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

Mr. Aronson. It is, sir. 

Senator Stmingtox. It is? 

Mr. Aronson. I believe it is. 

Senator Syjviington. Do you not want to take this opportunity to 
tell the American people tliat you are a good American and not a 
member of the party? 

Mr. Aronson. I must decline to answer that question, sir. 

The Chairman. I might say, Senator Symington, that if he were to 
say he were not a member of the Communist Party, we would promptly 
refer the case to the Justice Department for perjury action. 

Just so the record will be clear, Mr. Counsel, is it correct that this 
man works on a completely Communist-controlled publication? 

Mr. CoHN. There has been testimony to that effect before the com- 
mittee, Mr. Chairman. 

I want to ask you this', Mr. Aronson. Wlien you were writing 
for these newspapers you have mentioned, did any member of the 
Communist Party ever advise with you or discuss your writings, how 
you should write, how you should treat the news, certain people, or 
subjects? 

Mr. Aronson. No, sir ; they did not. 

Mr. CoHN. Well, now, yesterday, when you were asked that same 
question, you declined to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. I want to know whether you are claiming your privilege in 
good faith or not. 

Mr. Aronson. I believe I answered the question yesterday. Would 
jou like to read the question to me ? 

Mr. CoHN. I read it exactly. I was quoting. 

Mr. Aronson. Will you say that again ? 

Mr. CoHN. I was quoting directly from the testimony yesterday 
at page 6490. 

The Chairman. When you were writing for any newspapers, did any member 
of the Communist Party ever advise with you or discuss your writings, how you 
should write, how you should treat the news, certain people or subjects ? 

Your answer was : 

I must decline to answer that question, on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Now, I want to know whether you are claiming that privilege in 
good faith, or whether you are using it as a subterfuge to avoid an- 
swering questions which might embarrass you ? 

May I pass that to counsel, so that he can see that? It is the last 
question on the page, and then on the first of the next page. 

Mr. Dambroff. I suggest to counsel that he begin reading at the 
top of page 6489. 

Mr. CoHN. Did I read the question and answer verbatim ? 

Mr. Dambroff. You did, but you left out an entire page, which 
qualifies the entire answer. 

The Chairman. The counsel apparently does not know the rules 
of the committee. You are entitled to discuss any matter with your 
client at any time you care to. You can advise him. If he wants to 
make suggestions to the committee upon your advice, he may do that. 
Under the rules of the committee, we do not have counsel take part in 
the proceedings. So if your client has anything to say, we will be 
glad to hear him, but not you. 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAAI 405 

Mr. Aronson. Mr. Chairiiiaii, may I read the previous question to 
the one that counsel read '. 

The CnAiKMAN. You may read anything that you care to. 
Mr. Aronson. Thank 3'ou. May I read it out loud ? 
The Chairman. You may. 
Mr. Aronson. All right. 

The Chairman. Were there ever any suggestions as to how yon should treat 
the lunvs in regard to certain matters, certain individuals, with any members of 
the Comuiuuist Party V 

Mr. CoHN. I don't follow you. Where are you reading? 
Mr. Aronson. Page 6490, line 1, 2, 3, 4, 

Mr. Abonson. The answer to that question is also — no. 

Mr. CoHN. Did you ever discuss your work with any member of the Coranumist 
Party when you were with the Post or Times? 

The Chairman. Your writins^sV 

Mr. Aronson. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds of the 
tifth amendment. 

I still assert that, and I think the record can stand. 

Mr. CoiiN. You still refuse to say whether or not you discussed 
your writings with members of the Communist Party when you were 
writing for the Post or the Times? 

Mr. Aronson. I decline to answer that question, on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

The CHAiRiiAN. Will the reporter read back the question that the 
witness answered in the negative, the question asked by Mr. Cohn? 

(The reporter reads as follows :) 

Mr. CoiiN. * * * I want to ask you this, Mr. Aronson. When you were writing 
for these newspapers you have mentioned, did any member of the Communist 
Party ever advise with you or discuss your writings, how you should write, how 
you should treat the news, certain people or subjects? 

Mr. Aronson. No, sir ; they did not. 

The Chairman. Mr. Symington and counsel, may I suggest that 
yesterday the witness was asked the identical question. He was asked 
whether he felt if he gave a truthful answer it might tend to incrimi- 
nate him. He then refused to answer the identical question, under 
the fifth amendment. Today his answer is "No." The answer of "No" 
would have been "No" yesterday. Therefore, when he was claiming 
the privilege yesterday, he was doing it dishonestly, in contempt of 
the committee. 

I wonder what your thought on this is, Senator Symington? Do 
you follow me on this ? 

Senator Symington. It is a legal matter, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. I think it is a clear contempt of the committee. I 
am getting rather weary of these Communists coming before this com- 
mittee and claiming the privilege when they are not entitled to it, and 
it is rather interesting to find one of them crossing himself up. 

Let me ask you this question, Mr. Aronson. Yesterday, when you 
were asked this question — refer to your record, page 6490 — the ques- 
tion by the chairman was : 

AVhen you were writing for any newspapers, did any member of the Com- 
munist Party ever advise with you or discuss your writings, how you .should write, 
how you should treat the news, certain people or subjects? 

You refused to answer that. The answer is : 

Mr. Akonson. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds of the 
fifth amendment. 



406 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

"Wlien you declined yesterday, did you feel that a truthful answer 
to that question might tend to incriminate you ? 

(Mr. Dambroff confers with Mr. Aronson.) 

Mr. Aronson. Yes, that was so, Senator. 

The Chairman. Yesterday, when you refused, you felt the answer 
might tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Aronson. Yes, sir. And I would like to assert the privilege, by 
answering the same way, sir. 

The Chairman. You have already answered "No" today. 

Mr. Aronson. I am sorry, Senator, I did not understand the ques- 
tion. I thought the question was : Was I ever under instructions to 
slant the news in any particular way ? And the answer to that ques- 
tion, as it was yesterda}', is "No." 

The Chairman. You are asking for the right now to change the 
answer you made today ? 

Mr. Aronson. Into declining to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

The Chairman. You will not be gi-anted that right. There is no 
such right under the fifth amendment, after you have answered a 
question and you have found that you have crossed yourself up. You 
Lave no right to correct the record. You will not be granted that 
right. 

Mr. Aronson. Senator, I am sorry, but I did not understand the 
question, and there was certainly no intent to confuse my answers. I 
want to give truthful ansv^ers. 

The Chairman. That is up to the committee to determine. You will 
not be given any privilege to change that answer. 

Mr. Counsel, do you have any further questions ? 

Proceed. 

Mr. CoHN. Who were your references for employment with the 
Office of War Information ? 

Mr. Aronson. I don't recall at this time. I believe one of them 
was Edward J. Flynn, who was then executive editor of the New York 
Post, who is now deceased. 

Mr. CoHN. Yes. Can you recall any others ? 

Mr. Aronson. T do not. 

Mr. CoHN. Did he know that you were a Communist? 

Mr. Aronson. I decline to answer that question, on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Was he a Communist? 

Mr. Aronson. To the best of my knowledge, he was not. 

Mr. CoHN. Now, can you recall any other references? 

Mr. Aronson. I can't at the moment. 

Mr. CoHN. But in any event, your testimony is that you received 
security clearance from OWI, and at the time you received such clear- 
ance you were a member of the Communist Party. Is that right? 

I am sorry. You declined to answer whether you were a member of 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Aronson. At that time. 

Mr. CoHN. And you have have given us, I think, three newspapers. 
Is there a fourth? We have the Wiesbadener Kurier, the Rhein- 
Neckar-Zeitung, and the Hessische Nachrichten. Is there a fourth 
newspaper concerning which jou made a favorable recommendation? 
Would that be the Taggesspiegre ? 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 407 

Mr. Aronsox. The Taggesspiegre in Berlin. And I was not on 
the scene, but I read the report that was submitted. I don't recall 
exactly. I believe that I reconniiended that the licensees who had been 
selected fitted into the directives. 

Mr. CoHN. And in all four cases, licenses were issued to the licensees 
jou had surve3'ed ? 

Mr. Akonson. Yes. That is correct. 

Mr. CoHN. And were you a member of the Communist Party at the 
time you made a recommendation in each one of those cases? 

Mr. Aronson. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. I have no further questions of this witness, Mr. Chair- 
man. 

The Chairman. You may step down. 

You will consider yourself still under subpena, Mr. Aronson, for 
call at such time as the conunittee may decide. 

Mr. CoHN. One more question. 

Mr. Aronson, have you written any articles criticizing the court 
and jury in the atom-spy trial of Julius and Ethel Eosenberg? 

Mr. Aronsox. I must decline to answer that question on the gi'ounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

Senator Symingtox. Do you think an injustice has been done in 
that case ? 

Mr. Aronson. Excuse me, sir. 

(Mr. Aronson confers with Mr. Dambroff.) 

Senator Symington. Just a "yes" or "no" answer. You must have 
thought about it. 

Mr. Aronson. I believe enough evidence has been submitted 

Senator Symington. Just "yes" or "no." Do you think an injustice 
has been done ? 

Mr. Aronson. I am sorry. I can't answer that question 

Senator Symington. You can't answer it on a "yes" or "no" basis? 
All right. 

The Chaiuman. You may step down. 

Mr. CoHN. Mr. Cedric Belfrage. 

Mr. Noto of the Immigration Department is here in response to 
your request, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. You have been sworn. You are reminded that 
you are still under oath. 

I asked the Inmiigration Department to have a representative here 
present this morning, and I assume they will take the necessary action 
after your evidence has been reviewed. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

TESTIMONY OF CEDRIC HSNNING BELFEAGE, ACCOMPANIED BY 
HIS COUNSEL, NATHAN DAMBROFF 

Mr. Belfrage. May I ask that the lights be turned off? 
The Chairman. If the witness does not want the lights, we will have 
to ask that they be turned off. 

Mr. Cohn. Mr. Belfrage, what is your full name, please? 
Mr. Belfrage. Cedric Henning Belfrage. 
Mr. CoHN. B-e-1-f-r-a-g-e? 
Mr. Belfrage. That is right. 



408 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

Mr. CoHN. And are you a resident in the United States at this time ? 

Mr. Belfrace. Yes, sir. 

Mr. CoHN. For how long a period of time have you resided in the 
United States :' 

The Chairman. May I interrupt ? I am asking Mr. Symington to 
take over the chairmanship. I will have to leave for a while. 

Mr. CoHN. Mr. Belf rage, I believe the pending question is : For how 
long a period of time have you been residing in the United States? 

Mr. Belfrage. I have been residing here as a resident alien since 
1937. 

Mr. CoHN. Since 1937 as a resident alien. Now, between 1937 and 
1953, that is, today, have you continuously been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Belfrage. Mr. Cohn, "Thou sayest it" is a famous answer to a 
similar trick question. 

Mr. CoHN. No, Mr. Belfrage. Would you please ajiswer the 
question ? 

Mr. Belfrage. My answer is the equivalent, the modern equivalent, 
to it. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Are you today a member of the Connnunist Party? 

Mr. Belfrage. My answer is the same. I decline to answer on the 
grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Are you a citizen of the United States ? 

Mr. Belfrage. I am not. 

Mr. CoHN. Do you believe in the overthrow of the United States 
Government ? 

Mr. Belfrage. I decline to answer on the ground of the fifth amend- 
ment, Mr. Cohn. 

Mr. Cohn. I see. Now, were you a press-control officer- 



Senator Symington. Let me ask you a question. You have been 
living here for 16 years ? 

Mr. Belfrage. That is correct. 

Senator Symington. And you will not answer a question as to 
whether you believe the Government of this country should be 
overthrown ? 

Mr. Belfrage. In the context of this hearing, it is quite obvious that 
any answer I may give to that would be used to crucify me and other 
innocent pei-sons. So I must decline. 

Senator Symington. If you said you did not believe the Govern- 
ment should be overthrown, how could that be used to crucify you ? 

Mr. Belfrage. I think it is obvious to most people, sir, but I must 
decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Cohn. Now, were you press-control officer in Germany in 1945 ? 

Mr. Belfrage. Yes, sir; I was. 

Mr. Cohn. As such, did you have the task of making surveys and 
reports and recommendations as to whether or not licenses should be 
granted to certain people to establish newspapers ? 

Mr. Belfrage. I did. 

Mr. Cohn. At that time were you a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Belfrage. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Cohn. Would you lean forward a little? I have some trouble 
hearing. 

Mr. Belfrage. I am sorry. 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 409 

I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. CoHN. Now, by whom were you employed when you were in 
Germany in 1945 as a press-control officer? 

Mr. Belfrage. I was under the connnand of the United States 
military. 

Mr. CoHN. Who gave you your job originally? 

Mr. Belfrage. The British Ministry of Information. 

Mr. CoHN. The British Ministry of Information? 

Mr. Belfrage. Yes. 

Mr. CoHN. At the time you were hired by the British INIinistry of 
Information were you a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Belfrage. 1 decline to answ^er on the same ground. 

Mr. CoHN. Now, concerning what newspapers did you make licens- 
ing recommendations ? 

Mr. Belfrage. The Aachener Nachrichten 

Mr. CoHN. Would you spell that for us? _ 

Mr. Belfrage. A-a-c-h-e-n-e-r N-a-c-h-r-i-c-h-t-e-n. 

Mr. CoHN. Yes? 

Mr. Belfrage. The Frankfurter Rundschau, the paper in Kassel, 
which I don't recall the name of. 

Mr. CoHN. Now, at the time you recommended licensing of the 
Frankfurter Rundschau, were there any Communists who were to be 
licensees ? 

Mr. Belfrage. There were some recommended ; yes, sir. 

Mr. CoHN. Do you remember their names ? 

Mr. Belfrage. Emil Carlebach. 

Mr. CoHN. Could you spell that for us? 

Mr. Belfiuvge. C-a-r-1-e-b-a-c-h. 

Mr. CoHN. And who else? 

Mr. Belfrage. Arno Rudert. 

Mr. CoHN. Is that R-u-d-e-r-t? 

Mr. Belfrage. Correct. 

Mr. CoHN. I might state, Mr. Chairman, that this Frankfurter 
Rundschau is the one that is financed to the tune of 1,600,000 marks at 

the present time. . -n • -u 

Do you know whether or not any of these Communists are still with 

that newspaper ? 

Mr. Belfrage. Arno Rudert is with the newspaper, but whether he 
is a Communist— I couldn't tell you that. , i. , 

Mr. CoHN. You know he was then, but you couldn t say whether he 

is now? J 

Mr. Belfrage. He publicly stated he was. He was recommended 
as a Communist to the High Command. ^ 

Mr. CoHN. And you stated you do not know whether he is a Com- 
munist now ? 

Mr. Belfrage. I have no idea. 

Mr. CoHN. Where are you employed in the United States now, Mr. 

Belfrage? , j ± 

Mr. Belfrage. I have to decline that question, on the grounds ot 

the fifth amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Do you know Elizabeth Bentley? 

Mr. Belfrage. I decline to answer that question, on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 



410 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

Mr. CoHN. Have you ever engaged in espionage against the United 
States ? 

Mr. Belfrage. I decline to answer that question, on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr, CoHN. Do you decline to answer whether or not you have ever 
been engaged in espionage against the United States, whether or not 
you believe in the overthrow of our Government, whether or not you 
were a Communist when you were making licensing recommendations 
on newspapers some of which we are financing in Germany today, and 
you have been in this country since 1937 as a resident alien. I would 
be very much interested in knowing this: When you entered this 
country, when did you enter the last time ? 

Mr. Belfrage. 1945. 

Mr. CoHN. Was any inquiry made of you by immigration, or in any 
form you had to fill out, as to whether you believed in the overthrow 
of our Government? 

Mr. Belfrage. I don't recall what the questions were. I presume I 
filled out some kind of a form. 

Mr. CoHN. Did you answer all the questions truthfully 2 

Mr. Belfil\ge. I refuse to answer, on the ground of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. CoHN. Have you ever had a hearing before the Immigration 
and Naturalization Service? 

Mr. Belfrage. I have not. I have been to visit them, but I did not 
get a hearing. 

Mr. CoHN. When did you go to visit them? 

Mr. Belfrage. About 2 or 3 years ago, I went with my attorney, 
Mr. Dambroff, who is here. I was aslved to go up to the headquarters 
of the Immigration and Naturalization Service at Columbus Circle, 
I believe — or Columbus Avenue. 

Mr, CoHN. Yes. And what happened? 

Mr. Belfrage. We were seen by a man, whose name I don't remem- 
ber, who said that they proposed to make an investigation of myself. 
And they wanted to know whether we would answer questions. And 
it was my attorney — I think I may have said it was I, but he said that 
would depend on what the questions were about. And he said, "They 
will be about your writings and your associations." And he, I think 
quite properly, said that we would not answer such questions. And 
we then were told that we would be recalled there at some future time. 
That was the last that we heard of it. 

Mr. CoHN. And when was this? 

Mr. Belfrage, About 2 to 3 years ago, but I am afraid I can't re- 
member the exact date. 

Mr. CoHisr. So they said they proposed to ask you certain questions, 
and you, through your counsel, said you did not think they should, 
and you were not going to answer the questions, and then they just 
thought it was all right, and you never heard from them again? 

Mr. Belfrage, They did not indicate that they thought it was all 
right. They indicated they were going to proceed with an investiga- 
tion. 

Mr. CoHN. Well, were you ever called back ? 

Mr. Belfrage. No ; I was not. 

Mr. CoHN. Do you know whether they have proceeded with an 
investigation? 



STATE DEPARTJMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 411 

Mr. Belfrage. I have no idea. 

Mr. CoHN. Do you write for a Communist-controlled publication 
today? 

Mr. BEiJBTiAGE. I decline to answer, on the ground of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Mr. Chairman, we have Mr. Noto, of the Immigration 
Service here today, and I wonder : Senator McCarthy had in mind 
requesting the Immigration Service to see if something cannot be done 
immediately about this man, who refuses to say whether or not he 
believes in the overthrow of our Government, whether he is engaged 
in espionage against this country, and who has been staying here in 
this country since 1937, enjoying all the privileges and benefits of this 
counti-y as a resident alien, and refusing to answer the questions, as 
he does here. It seems like a highly unusual situation, to say the very 
least. 

Mr. Belfrage. May I make a statement? 

Mr. CoHN. I was addressing myself to the chairman. 

Senator Symington. I think you better just answer the questions. 

Mr. Belfrage. I don't think there was a question. But I would 
like to say one thing. 

Senator Symington. I would like to ask you one question. 

That is: Why you think you have a right to, apparently, believe 
in the overthrow of this Government while you have taken advantage 
of living in the United States for the last 16 years? That is the ques- 
tion I would like to ask you. And I think if you want to consult with 
your counsel, all right, but I do not think your counsel ought to be 
constantly prompting you. 

(Mr. Belfrage confers with Mr. Dambroff.) 

Mr. Belfrage. The answer to that, sir, is that I cherish the Bill of 
Rights, and I think I interpret the fifth amendment correctly when 
I say that it was designed for the protection of the innocent, and I use 
it as such. It is that innocence that I am seeking to protect. 

Senator Symington. You think you are completely innocent ? 

Mr. Belfrage. That is my statement. 

Mr. CoHN. "When you came to this country as a resident alien the 
last time, or at any time, I would be most interested to know what 
questions you were asked concerning whether or not you believe in 
the overthrow of this Government, concerning your loyalty to this 
country. 

Mr. Belfrage. I don't recollect the questions at all. 

Senator Symington. Was there any question asked you at that time 
with respect to your political affiliation ? 

Mr. Belfrage. I don't recall, sir. 

Senator Symington. Did the form sliow that. Counsel ? 

Mr. CoHN. I wonder if Mr. Noto couldn't enlighten us on that, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr. Noto. I might say this, that there are questions that are per- 
tinent along the lines of your interrogation that appear on an appli- 
cation for visa entry into the United States. 

Mr. CoHN. Now, what would be the question on the visa ? 

Mr. Noto. I don't recall the exact terminology' of it, but my recol- 
lection of it is that it is a question designed to ask whether or not 
vou believe in the overthrow of the United States Government by force 



412 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 

and violence, whether or not you belong to any organization that 
advocates the overthrow of the Government. 

Mr. CoHN. All right. 

Now, Mr. Belfrage, do yon belong to any organization which advo- 
cates the overthrow of the Government of the United States by force 
and violence? 

Mr. Belfrage. I have to decine to answer that. 

Mr. CoHN. Do yon, yourself, believe in the overthrow of the United 
States Government by force and violence ? 

Mr. Belfrage. I have to decline to answer that. 

Senator Symington. Would he have been allowed to enter the United 
States if he did say he believed in the overthroAv of the United States 
Government by force and \aolence ? 

Mr. NoTO. No, sir. 

Mr. CoHx. Would he be permitted in if he refused to answer, say- 
ing, "I refuse to fill out this form" ? 

Mr. NoTO. I am afraid I cannot answer that question, because that 
dei^ends on the State Department. 

They are charged with the obligation of the issuance of visa. 

Mr. CoHN. That is purely a matter for the State Department. la 
that correct? 

Mr. NoTO. That is right. 

Mr. CoHN. Who in the State Department would have charge of 
that? 

Mr. NoTo. The Visa Division. 

Mr. CoHN. ISIr. Chairman, could we communicate with the Visa 
Division of the State Department ? 

Senator Symington. I think that would be a good idea; right now, 
as soon as we can. 

Mr, CoHN. And determine just what the situation is on that? 

And I understand from Mr. Noto that the Innnigration and Natur* 
alization Service has this case under advisement, and I would recom- 
mend, Mr. Chairman, that it be given immediate attention, and that 
we ask them to keep this committee very closely advised as to what 
prompt action they can take to eliminate this man from the shores of 
this country, in view of his testimony here this morning, and in view 
of testimony he has givan on other occasions and in other places. 

I will ask you this. Do you know James Aronson, who testified 
just prior to your testimony ? 

Mr. Belfrage. Yes. 

Mr. CoHN. Do you know whether or not Mr. Aronson is a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Belfrage. I decline to answer, on the ground of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Did you know Mr. Aronson in Germany when you were 
both press control officers ? 

Mr. Belfrage. I did. 

Mr. CoHN. Were you a member of the Communist Party then ? 

Mr. Belfrage. I decline to answer, on the ground of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Was he ? 

Mr. Belfrage. I had no idea what he was. 

Mr. CoHN. I see. That is 1945. Was he a member of the Com- 
munist Party in 1946 ? 



STATE DEPARTMENT INFORMATION PROGRAM 413 

Mr. Belfkage. I decline to answer, on the ground of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. CoHN. Well, ^\•as he a member of tlie Communist Party in 
December of 1945 ? 

Mr. Belfkage. I \Yasirt even seeing him in December 1945. 

Mr. CoHN. "When did you last see him in '45 ? 

Mr. Belfrage. In September. 

Mr. CoHN. "Was he a member of the Conminnist Party then? 

Mr. Belfkage. I had no idea. I was with him in Germany all 
together for a period of about 6 weeks. 

Senator Symington. Let me ask you a question. Do you think you 
should have the right to stay in the United States if, when you are 
asked in a public hearing whether or not you would like to overthrow 
our Government, you say you decline to answer? 

Mv. Belfrage. I would like to consult with counsel, if I may, Mr. 
Chairman. 

(Mr. Belfrage confers w^ith Mr. Dambrolf.) 

Mr. Belfrage. jMr. Chairman, I would like to say to that question 
that the answer is emphatically "Yes." Implications against me have 
been made in this committee, and also in the Velde committee last 
week. 

Senator Symington. I do not know about the Velde committee, but 
we have not made any implications against you. I just want you to 
answer the question. 

^Ir. Belfrage. Well, I am answering the questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Symington. What is the answer to the question ? 

Mr. Belfrage. The answer to the question is emphatically "Yes." 

Senator Symington. "Emphatically, yes.'' 

Mr. Belfrage. Until these charges are proved in a proper way, in 
a proper court, I do not regard anybody as having the right to take 
any such action. 

Senator Symington. But the question is very simple. The ques- 
tion is: First, are you a member of the Communist Party? 

Secondly, do j-ou believe in the overthrow of the United States 
Government ? 

And third, if you will nol ansAver either of those questions: 
Whether or not you think you have the right to take the advantages 
of living in America as an alien resident? 

Mr. Belfra(;e. Yes, sir; I do. Because I believe that any answer 
1 might give would be used to crucify me. 

Senator Symington. What do you think would happen to you in 
the Soviet Union if you got up in front of an investigating committee 
and said you refused to answer whether or not you had engaged in 
espionage against the Soviet Union ? 

Mr. Belfrage. I haven't the faintest idea, Mr. Chairman. I am 
interested in the situation here, not in the Soviet I'nion. 

Senator Symington. You have no idea at all what would happen 
to you if you did that in the Soviet Union ? 

Mr. Belfrage. No idea. 

Mr. CoiiN. Do you think that they would extend your visa ? 
Mr. Belfp^\ge. I have no idea. 

Senator Symington. Well, I think personally if you have been 
over here for 16 years and have taken the advantages of the Ameri- 
can way of life and are either afraid or ashamed to say that you do or 



414 STATE DEPARTMENT INFORAIATIOX PROGRAM 

do not believe in the overthrow of the American Government, the 
sooner you leave the shores of the United States the better it would be 
for the United States. 

Mr. Belfrage, Mr. Chairman, I resent and repudiate the suggestion 
that I am afraid or ashamed of anything. 

Senator Symington. You may resent it. But we have had a lot 
of people like you before this committee. And those who have been 
Communists and said they were, said they were sorry, said they 
thought now it was better to be Americans and not be members of 
the party, are one thing. But those who come up like you do, espe- 
cially as an alien, and refuse to answer the questions of the committee — 
I hope you leave the shores of our country as soon as possible. 

Mr. CoHN. I have no further questions of this witness, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr. Chairman, we have no further witnesses for the morning. 

I wonder if we could adjourn subject to call ? 

Senator Symington. I think we ought to look into the question 
of how this man got into the United States and what the questions 
were that he answered when he got in, and how he answered them. 

Mr. CoHN. We will ask, Mr. Chairman. According to your direc- 
tion, we will ask for an immediate report from the Visa Division of 
the State Department and a report from the Immigration Service, 
and I think we can ask that his visa application be produced. 

Mr. Chairman, would you state to the witness that he remain under 
subpena subject to the call of the committee until we get this further 
information ? 

Senator Symington. Will you please remain under subpena, subject 
to the call of the committee ? 

Mr. Dambroff. You do not want us to remain here ? 

Mr. CoHN. No, not in the room. We will communicate with you. 
But you are both still under the subpena of the committee. 

Mr. Dambroff. Thank you very much. 

(Wliereupon at 11 : 55 a. m. the hearing was recessed, subject to the 
call of tlie Chair.) 



APPENDIX 



EXHIBITS 

Exhibit No. 35 

[Excerpt] 

The Negro People in America 

(New York, 1946, International Publishers Co., Inc.) 

By Herbert Aptlieker 

This critique of a large and imposin;; study of the Negro question is published 
just when the postwar drive of reaction against the Negro people is approaching 
a stage of crisis. 

The wartime fair employment practice program of the Federal Government 
has been repudiated. Poll tax repeal legislation has again been blocked. The 
War Department has reaffirmed and strengthened the Jim Crow policy of 
the Army. 

A police officer in Freeport, Long Island, lined 4 Negro brothers against a wall 
and shot them without warrant, killing 2 veterans and wounding another. An 
armed expedition of State and local police in Columbia, Tenn., angered because 
Negro citizens repulsed a lynch mob the night before, invaded the Negro section 
at dawn, guns ablaze, and destroyed every business establishment and almost 
every home in the area. 

A United States Senator and the Governor of a State won primary nominations 
(with as.surauce of election) on "white supremacy" platforms calling for the 
disfranchisement and violent oppression of Negro citizens. The Ku Klux Klan 
rides again. A wave of anti-Negro police brutality is mounting in northern 
industrial cities. Lynch terror stalks across the South, and most of its victoms 
are Negro veterans but recently returned from the war. 

This whole reactionary trend was horribly dramatized before the world by the 
planned, cold-blooded murder of two Negro shareci-oppers and their wives in 
Walton County, Ga.. and the killing of another farm worker nearby, a veteran, 
the lone Negro citizen in Taylor County who defied the Talmadge-inspired cam- 
paign of terror and voted in the primary elections. ^Moreover, hardly a week 
passes without some new revelation that lynch terror has claimed another 
Negro victim. 

The Negro quesUon has noxo become one of the most crucial and junaamentat 
issues confronting our Nation. Not only are the lives and liberties of Iff million 
Negro citizens in dire jeopardy but the Fascist pattern of terror by ivhich they 
are oppressed threatens to spread and destroy the freedom of all Americans 
(from introduction, Doxey A. Wilkerson, p. 7-8). 



[Excerpt] 

Essays in the History of the American Negro 

(New York, 1945, International Publishers Co., Inc.) 

By Herbert Aptheker 

Yet the fight for Negro rights was not ended by the Hayes-Tilden episode of 
1877. It continued thereafter, and today is being carried on as never before with 
the aid of the labor and progressive movement. Based on the solid foundation 
of black and white unity, the present .struggle for Negro rights is bound up with 
the battle for democracy. The alliance between Negro and white is a natural 
and firm one capable of accomplishing the unfinished ta.sks of revolutionary 
reconstruction (p. 205). 

415 



INDEX 



Page 

Al>r:tl!;uii Lincoln School of Chicago o8T 

Aachener Nachrichteu ( publication) 401) 

Achesou, Dean 3*J0, 31)3 

Adams. Arthur S.jO, 3U4 

AL-ricola, Rudolf 400 

American folklore map 388,380,390 

American Legion 372, 373 

American Newspaper Guild :>!>3 

Aptheker, Herbert 368, 369, 370, 373 

Testimony of 374-385 

Aronson. James 412 

Testimony of 395-407 

Helfrage. Cedric Henning 401,402,403 

Testimony of 407-414 

lientley, Elizabeth 409 

P.ov Scouts 379 

r.rand. Millen 381, 382 

Testimony of 357-3(i7 

British Ministi-y of Information 40!) 

Camp Sherwood 370 

Carlebach. Emil 409 

Citv College. New York City 386 

Clark. James 390 

Communist Party 360, 364-371. 37.3-.380. 

381-385, 387, 389-390, 392, 393, 397-399, 401-405, 407, 409. 412. 413 

Crown I'ublishers 358, 364, 366 

Daily Worker (publication) 36.5. 392, 4tHt 

Dambroff. Nathan 395, 397, 402, 404, 407. 411. 413, 414 

Department of Interior 391 

Indies, .lohn Foster 369, 374, 3S5 

Eisenhower, Dwight 373, 39<) 

Flvnn. Edward J 406 

Foner. Philip, testimony of 38.5-387 

Frankfurter Rundschau (publication) 398, 400, 409 

(irey Advertising Agency 372 

Cropper, Sol — 391 

Cropper, William, testimony of .387-392 

Ilessi.sche Nachrichten (publication) 400, 40(5 

Heuss. Theodore 400 

Hyman. Julius 364 

Information Service 390, 398, 398 

Institute of Marxist Studies 370 

International Publishers 385 

Jefferson School 368, 383, 385. 386, 392 

Jefferson School Bookstore 370 

Jefferson School Summer Camp 370 

Justice Department 404 

Korea 362, 863, 366, 381, 403 

Madden. Murdaugh 366 

Matusow. Harvey .374, 385, 392, 303 

Testimony of .367-373 

McClure, General 396, 397. 401 

National Guardian 400 

Nazi Party 380 

New Masses .364 

r 



II INDEX 

Page 

News of the Week in Review (publication) 399 

New York State Communist Party 369 

New York Post (publication) 399, 405, 406 

New York Times (publication) 399, 405 

Office of War Information 395, 399, 406 

Rein David 388 

Rbein-Neckar-Zeitung (publication) 400, 406 

Rosenberg, Etbel 407 

Rosenberg, Julius 407 

Ruderl, Arno 398, 409 

Saturday Review of Literature (publication) 365 

State Department 358, 360, 361, 384, 386-388, 393, 400, 412, 413 

Soviet Union 363,364,366,367, 403,413 

Taggesspiegre (publication) 406, 407 

Trachtenberg, Alexander 385 

United Nations 371, 394 

University of California 386, 387 

University of Wisconsin 386, 387 

Voice of America 361 

Weser Kurier (publication) 402 

Wiesbadener Kurier . 401, 406 

YMCA 379 

o